Hello, everyone. We're live. We're just gonna get right into the show today. Hi, Tom. Hi, Allison VR is amazing. Yeah, and my are we are you looking at the hangout in VR in your VR goggles while you're on the hangout? I'm in the great wall of China nice Does Andy there with you? $16 for that comedic bit right there 16 bucks paid off All right Hey, I Yes, sir I don't know is the video jerky for anyone else or is it just me like it's super me. I'm very jerky I might have to pop out and pop back in real quick. Okay.  Yes, sir My fellow citizens of the internet there is nothing to fear but fear itself So go show fear you mean business go to daily tech news show comm slash support and show them You're not interested in fear. You're interested in the future This is the daily tech news for Tuesday May 10th 2016. I'm Tom Merritt joining me today Allison Sheridan no Zilla cast is back and I'm not at her house But thank you for letting me borrow your internet last Monday. You saved the show I like what Zoe said in the chat room said oh look Allison's in Tom's backup studio Yeah, no, it's some people were saying it was nice of me to use a picture of your studio on my green screen all the jokes But excited also today to have Andy not go from the Chicago Sun Times with us Andy. Thank you for doing this, man Hello, it's nice to be back my own self And it's good to have you back and it's been way to looking at your as you're at your winsome green screen as again Yes, enjoy Everything we have Amazon's got a bunch of news for us today. So we're gonna talk about that in the headlines and a little bit in depth So let's start with those headlines Amazon launched Amazon video direct today creators must fill out tax information and link a bank account Plus create pages for their series and provide artwork for display So this ain't no YouTube shoot it on your iPhone thing They can choose to include shows in Amazon Prime streamed free with ads you can rent your stuff You can sell your stuff any combination of those you want Amazon video is available in Japan the UK Austria Germany and the United States variety reports Amazon will pay creators 50 percent of retail if they sell or rent it and 55% of revenue gained from an ad supported stream if you go to Amazon Prime You get 15 cents per hour all in the US 6 cents per hour streamed elsewhere That is capped at $75,000 a year and in addition to that the top 100 titles will get paid a monthly bonus Divided up out of a pool of a million dollars. We're gonna talk about this in the main discussion But quick impressions Andy and Allison. What do you think? Well, are we gonna get cat videos there or not? It's gonna be the crucial thing, right? They're gonna be expensive cat videos, right Andy? I Don't know if they're gonna be creating their own free studio or tapping in any way into everything that makes YouTube interesting But they seem to be doing it differently. And so that's that's there's a reason for it to exist Yeah, it kind of feels like the Kindle program to me explain that a little more Drop go ahead. Tell me about Dropbox Allison Dropbox announced the launch of Dropbox education on Tuesday It comes with pooled storage of 15 gigabytes per user a limited version history going back one year and The ability to control sharing permissions for admins the service costs $49 per user per year Which is about a third of what you would pay for the business version But the and there's also volume discounts available Dropbox already had 4,000 educational organizations on board with its other offerings prior to the launch Interesting it is interesting to see Dropbox Taylor this they've been very insistent To say we are only going to have you know Individual business and enterprise that's it and we'll make that work for anybody So this is the first time they've tailored it to a particular industry I like the the pooled storage to so 15 gigabytes per user But you pile it all together and everybody gets an average of that so that can really make that be valuable Although if you're in business if you're in a business account you get unlimited storage So it is a step down and you do get unlimited The history and I think the history drops off after about a year here The US FCC and FTC issued statements Monday requesting more information on how mobile phones receive security patches The FCC is concerned about delays or patches never being issued for older devices the FCC sent letters to AT&T Verizon team mobile sprint US cellular and track phone and then the FTC sent its letters to the manufacturers Apple Google Blackberry HTC LG Microsoft Motorola and Samsung Companies must detail the security history of the models offered for sale since August 2013 and Andy they're they're basically trying to say we we think you leave a lot of losers user users behind a bunch of losers Yeah, and it's not just leaving users behind It's also leaving use leaving the entire network vulnerable Because these it's not just getting a new search feature or getting a better camera if you don't if you do not have a Every time that the FBI finds a way to crack into someone's phone They are the last person in line after a thousand bad people have figured that out as well So it's really not it's it's you're you're you have to there's such a thing as end of life for a device But you are required to make sure that if someone drives this car for 12 years their brakes still work That's basically the FCC is required right now You know, that's the first thing I thought of to Andy was FTC in the FCC over here and the FBI over here going hey look what we got here We got a treasure trove and these guys going well, maybe not we don't think that's the best idea I just thrilled me not a good idea. Well, and I thought it was interesting They said what vulnerabilities have been discovered by anyone that you know of and have you patched them? Which you that should not be a hard question, but there may be unpatched vulnerabilities out here now granted They're only making them go back to August 2013 I think you'd see a lot more vulnerabilities unpatched if you made them go back five six years and Specifically going back to older models that maybe aren't allowed to get it. I and I and including 18 fries Mobile and Sprint that this just thrills me Well, Microsoft announced it will shut down MSN China on June 7th MSN China was launched 11 years ago in partnership with Shanghai Alliance Investment The service has been falling behind other companies like Tencent Sino Weibo and Baidu MSN messenger closed two years ago Yeah I think a lot of people may look at this headline and Misinterpret it as Microsoft pulling out of China when they're doing quite the opposite It's it's just Microsoft's content arm in China not being able to keep up with the whatever the Chinese Joneses are Tom stocky VP of search at Facebook posted a response to Gizmodo's story about suppression of political stories by curators of Facebook's trending stories module. This is what we talked with Veronica about yesterday He reiterated that Facebook guidelines require the acceptance of any real-world topic He says we only look we only get rid of stuff if it's not real-world So we get rid of duplicates, of course, but we also get rid of hoaxes Subjects with insufficient sources where they're not sure whether it's real or not And if you violate the guidelines by getting rid of stuff you just don't like it's a fireable offense He also denied that Facebook injects stories into the trending topics box that aren't yet trending He says no we they they are trending black lives matter was trending Syria was trending Which were the two that were mentioned in the Gizmodo story Meanwhile the US Senate Commerce Committee sent a letter to Mark Zuckerberg asking several questions including some about Organizational structure whether content had been manipulated details of what Facebook investigated Which stocky said they had done and when those guidelines were put in place and what those guidelines are So we're already we're already getting a Senate inquiry in here and and and Andy I know I know this is something that's very of interest to you as well Yeah, it's it's it's interesting that we're getting we first century or two We've had this the standard thing where if you've got two or three papers in the city One of them will have a they each have their own point of view in their own opinion and what's important What's not they might even have their own political slant or slant towards or against and now we're finally seeing a thing where Facebook and at all are being expected to live to a better standard But the reason why is that people don't think that they're going to the Boston Globe They think they're going to the newsstand and if that's the only place where they're getting a Mishmash of news that they believe is being curated by robots. They're just looking for velocity and popularity They can get a very skewed idea of what the news is that said it's really important that you have some sort of human oversight Over these things because you can't simply say that just because a million people have been forwarding an article About how autism is caused by vaccines that doesn't mean that that's a verifiable sourced good piece of journalism You should actually have someone there to say no I'm not gonna let this I'm not gonna let this be part of the curated news feed because this is a garbage So oftentimes if you're upset that a certain news item has not been talked about everywhere It's because you are trying to get people to read garbage Yeah, I mean if Python eats an elephant is the most shared story on Facebook I bet they don't let it go into trending stories anyway Yeah, well unless they can verify that the Python ate the elephant right and you've got incredible sources reporting on it Etc. I I think they would have avoided some trouble if they'd been a little more transparent about the curation And maybe not called it trending stories, which really makes people think like oh, this is direct algorithm with no No no insertion of the human in the process because it's not like you say It's not bad to have a human curate this and sort of clean it up for and even a lot of us may not really prove a fox news But I'm right perfectly Approve of a news outlet deciding that we are going to be front and center saying this is our attitude towards the news So long as it does what it says on the outside of the box That's perfectly okay, and I think that's what Tom said yesterday too was that as long as you tell me It's curated and and that you've got or you've even got your opinion put in that's what matters right don't pretend you're unbiased I Think personally the most amazing part of that story is that a Senate's Commerce committee got their act together enough to write a letter in less than 24 hours. That's kind of impressive Yeah, when you hit at your party, it could really motivate you All right, Xiaomi launched the 6.44 inch Mi Max today in China the size Basically of a four-day old baby hedgehog. It weighs 203 grams and the 1080p display is a curved glass front It has a battery. That's 4850 milliamp hours, which I think is longer would stay awake longer than a 40-year-old baby hedgehog It can do 14 hours of streaming video on Wi-Fi. It goes on sale in China May 17th starting at RMB 1699 that's $230 us and going up to RMB 1999 for $306 us so everybody's getting smaller except to show me Who's who's getting maxed out 6.44 inches that I think the experience the ultra was the last one that was that big or close to that big Uber has launched Uber wave its wheelchair accessible service in London Uber wave cars are equipped with a rear entry ramp winch and appropriate restraints the cost is the same as Uber X and can Be booked anywhere in greater London. Uber says that Uber wave drivers will have received disability equality training from transport for all and inclusion London That's a quote Uber wave is currently available in Toronto Sydney and more than 10 US cities including LA Chicago and Washington That's pretty cool It's better than cool. It's absolutely important Accessibility has to be universal or else it's meaningless and the ability of someone who a person with a physical disability being able to simply Activate an app on their phone and use the same infrastructure as anybody else and also get a ride picked up from the after the end of A day at a club back to their apartment is is just an important critical piece of infrastructure that we should be That should be applied everywhere and something that you can't just say okay all Uber drivers pick up wheelchair people They do need to be trained properly and so you good for Uber in going through the motions to make this happen and make people Trained and available. That's great Only the same lines London design firm layer had layer has a new prototype wheelchair design called go Fast company says it'll be unveiled during the clerk-and-well design week in London manufacturers would scan a person and 3d print seats and footrests to match that person's seat and feet accounting for size and weight Layer estimates it would take about two weeks to complete a custom wheelchair Now I've got a technical friend who is really measured and understands a lot about wheelchair So I shot him this note gave him 30 seconds to give me an answer on whether this sounded good And he said for certain types of paraplegics This would be fantastic, but he'd have a lot of questions like what sort of provisions Do they have for people that need to hire a wheelchair back arms on the wheelchair footstraps, etc How do you how would they integrate that what sort of service guarantee? Do they have what what about onsite service and and replacement parts? It's not just about making that seat which could be good for some but having the entire infrastructure behind it is something That's really critical for using a wheelchair. Those are great points And what layers doing is saying we've developed a system to customize that seat provide a better center center of gravity So it doesn't tip over as much make make the feet more not just more comfortable, but more stable and it would work with existing wheelchair Infrastructure so therefore a wheelchair company that wanted to take advantage of layers design should be able to do all those things But you get you they that the devil's in the details, right like no manufacturer has yet Caught on to this because again, it is just a prototype my brother is the coach of the wheelchair basketball team for the United States actually competing at Invictus in the finals on Thursday and I listened to him talk about working on these wheelchairs He is always like tearing a strap off of his backpack and and tie in something together So repair and maintainability is definitely a crucial piece of this and as I understand it Wheelchairs usually take much more than two weeks to turn around. So so these parts would be able to fit right into the process. Yeah The Globe and Mail reports Canada's major banks have finally reached a deal on Apple pay Royal Bank of Canada and Canadian Imperial Bank of Commerce We'll let customers use Apple pay with credit and debit cards starting Tuesday for purchases less than a hundred dollars ATB financial and Canadian Tire financial services will offer the service But only for credit cards not for debit and Bank of Montreal Toronto Dominion Bank and Bank of Nova Scotia Will roll out support over the coming months. So they're not jumping in right away, but they'll get there eventually That $100 backs though. I would never be using that well Not said never but I would worry about using that for grocery shopping because I guess I'm mostly under a hundred dollars But occasionally I go over and then I'd be like, oh crap. I have to carry my card all the time anyway just in case My friend Steven gets texting me this morning from Canada saying woohoo got to use Apple pay and got to use his debit card He said that they use debit cards like three to one Versus credit cards. Oh really? So apparently that's a that's a big deal. Do you ever go to Canada Andy? Never been once unfortunately. I was expecting you to say just not very often. You've never actually been once. That's amazing I have envied it when I've written checks to health care providers. I have never actually stepped foot in Canada. No kidding Well now you have a reason After the election That way that can still use my Apple watch. I'm not sure they can go right way. I'm I don't know No, it can go it can go a very wrong way. I yeah, I don't want to politicize this So hard not to have this conversation alright venture beat reports that its sources say the images for Moto X Leaked yesterday by Ev Leaks and hello Moto HK were of two versions of the Moto X called the vertex and vector thin Both models will have different internal specs But both allegedly support swappable magnetic backplate modules called amps among the six expected modules are stereo speakers Battery pack camera flash an optical zoom and a Pico projector and a rugged cover with a wide-angle lens I think this is really cool the headline. I think says Something about modular done right and this is I think that's a terrific idea So you don't carry that junk around all the time, but you can add it on Yeah, absolutely and the way they've done it is very very smart where you can have a situation where people who take this out Of the box will never know that those pogo plugs exist because they just have them They ordered the one with the red cover on it the red covers is on it. It's flushed with a camera lens It looks okay, but then maybe a year from now They will decide that they want extra battery and while they're searching for an external battery pack They realize oh wait I can just buy an extra an extra cover that it does this different thing I'm really looking forward to if they do things that are as interesting as not just a snap-on camera lens But actually a better image sensor that will just feed the feed the raw data from this essentially self-contained Sony 20 megapixel Camera cover and actually just feed that into the existing Android camera infrastructure It's this definitely the sort of thing where they're gonna have to just decide that whether there is Tiny tiny absorption in the first year or not We just have to put those same plugs on every device we ever make and just trust that people will find it Companies will find it over the next two or three years Because there's so many of these solutions where It's a really great idea and you saw the two devices that were available at rollout And that's what that's all that were ever made for it But I like to see this sort of ambition in a phone design Yeah, I'm curious what their rollout of modules would be whether they they'd start to license third parties to do them Because all these are made by motor roll at least at launch. That's the expectation here But I love that idea. I love that idea of just being able to pull something off and magnetic is perfect I don't have to deal with plastic levers and snaps or anything Just swap that thing back and forth should be pretty stable I think you've got a good point Andy on the uh, I'm trying to have this be available for everybody But I think htc came out with a completely different design, right? They came out with a slider thing that to do it Yeah, that's a lot clumsier than the magnet because it else it's it requires a Phone of this specific Form and size whereas if they just if motorology and moto just has a space exactly that same size Anywhere on future phones they can really make that on tablets small phones large phones So long as people So long as it's the same Hardware design and they don't change that from year to year it could be like Like apple standardizing their dock connector where they just simply say as long as you submit your hardware to us We'll give you a made for iphone or made for ipod sticker and you're good to go If it's not going to be in the first year, but it really does require a couple years for engineers to Realize this is a market they want to get into and then perfect the design So so long as they stick with it just don't abandon it in the first year Or if that first phone is a six and a half inch screen or something and then you've got little or phone So it's this big thing hanging on the back That's a good point. Yeah, the phone's the beginning smaller lately again, but I think they'll hover around those same areas Uh moderators of reddits technology subreddit have asked for feedback to the idea of banning links To sites that block ad blockers. So wired and forbs are the ones they're using as they an example And those are the ones most commonly posted The mods note that forbs has in fact served malware from its site in the past not on purpose But they you know, they they were victim of that sort of thing And the ads were the vector. So therefore blocking ad blockers Could be considered a security risk if you're saying look I got malware from forbs one time I know it was by accident, but I'm blocking those scripts and yet that means forbs won't let me read their articles Adblock detection often blocks stories from browsers with security extensions Even if you're not running an ad blocker no script privacy badger Sometimes those will trigger the ad block detection and prevent you from being able to read this It it it's an interesting question and don't forget the moderates are not saying we're going to do this the mods are saying What do you think this this is somewhat of a security risk for some people? Do you think we should do this? Yeah, that that's very very smart. I think it comes down to when you click a link Do you expect to actually be able to get to the content? And although I think that forbs at all are They're doing exactly what they should be allowed to do which is to decide they're on destiny It's okay also for a public forum to decide that if we can't guarantee that someone will be able to actually see this article is being posted we'd much rather save our users to bother but It could have a chilling effect if this if ad blockers excuse me ad blocker blocker I had to I really did have to parse that sentence in that headline a couple of times Make sure I understood it but yeah, it could have a chilling effect if Blocking ad blockers becomes the norm And then the result will be people saying well, what if we just simply copy paste the content of the article Into this this blog this post instead so So Andy you bring up a good point does reddit allow links to articles that are behind paywalls Some subreddits do some don't and they actually mentioned that in their post They're saying we're also considering whether we should allow wall street journal articles because they're behind a page Yeah, and I myself often will not link directly to a wall street journal article from my show notes Because I know that a lot of people aren't going to be able to read it So I figure if I give you know engadget or verges write up They'll be able to at least read some of the content and still get the link to the original wall street journal article Well, see even there is even that there's a sort of a it's always some a moral issue because I also have a problem when I'm actually kind of angry when I've I'm linked to an article that is really good and factual then I realize that oh This quote author unquote just simply copy pasted paragraph after paragraph of someone else's original reporting that might have taken them a Lot of time and money to develop and now they're getting the link They're getting the clicks instead And so if wall street journal is paying somebody enough money to actually go to singapore and get this information or get this interview Maybe the wall street journal is entitled to their $2.80 or however much money they're weak. They're they're asking for So it just goes to show there's no one easy answer to all this Yeah, I mean and it's a fair point if it's a wall street journal digits blog post There's no problem right because it's not behind the paywall But when it's behind the paywall, it's like well Do you explain to people that they can cut and paste or just pay for the subscription or whatever? So, yeah, there's there's no Good solution these days To that sort of thing Although on our own subreddit. It was Alba toilet condolce who submitted this story And it was someone else Oh, yeah cdn dude 74 said when he gets to a wired or Forbes article He just clicks the reader view option that firefox provides And goes to the readable version and never gets blocked Even though he's running no script. So that's the other thing There's always ways around this stuff if you really look hard That's also enough that's that's fine with me too because I feel as though if there's if there's a big gate out in the front with They got security guards and turnstiles That makes sure you pay your ten dollars to get in But you've also had a big double wide gate at the back that no one's watching I think it's kind of your responsibility to make sure that gate is closed as well So if there's a button, there's a visible button in the browser. I can click To get it for free. I don't feel quite so guilty. I feel like I'm getting away with Yeah, I I don't run any actual ad blockers, but I have run into problems with privacy badger Uh, particularly because it's supposed to just be blocking cookies And stop me from being tracked and I'm like, it's fine if you give me an ad But I haven't opted into being tracked So don't block me from reading and I finally figured out in wired Which of their cds I needed to move to say no cookies, but otherwise load and stopped them from blocking me I haven't figured that one out for me I would love that if the if the company's just simply said here are what here are the non-negotiable trackers and cookies that we Require you to use in order to get our content for free. I'm certainly not I'm not well Ghostry for me is Is non-negotiable. I have to run ghostry on all my on all my sites And but if you were to tell me that here is two different cookies that you that you have to let me let me Activate and that I can see okay. What are these two companies doing? What's the reputation and what are they selling on me?  I've not read wired and quite a while despite how good their reporting is It's because I'm just not comfortable saying I will whitelist your site And I haven't yet decided that I can spend an extra 40 dollars a month to buy subscriptions to every single Site and blog that I really really like. Yeah I'm it's wired that I had to stop reading. I just on the iPad. It's just unreadable. It's I can't read it and I loved wired. I loved it. No, the writers are fantastic. They have excellent content Uh, finally a couple quick notes uber has agreed to work with the international association of machinists to launch an independent guild for uber drivers That's part of that new york settlement It's part of a new a new york settlement not that new york settlement and tumblr Launched labs at tumblr.com slash setting slash labs for users to test out Experimental features. So if you're into experimental features, I don't want to check that out Big thanks to everybody on our sub reddit who submits stuff and helps us put together our lineup every day get in there And if not submit stuff vote on the things that have been submitted Loki robert is in there kevwell is in there another j martin trillian lover a bunch of other folks join them at dailytechnewshow.reddit.com and that is a look at the headlines All right, so let's talk about amazon video direct prime video subscribers Can can get this stuff you basically everyone's saying oh, it's like youtube now Everyone can publish to amazon video, but I went in there to sign up You have to hook up a bank account. You have to fill out a w9 Give me either your social security number or your federal employee id number Your videos require artwork in in the particular spec so that they look good in amazon's apps And they require captioning and good for them for doing that But that's not something that like I couldn't immediately put dtns up there Because the captioning I have on youtube wasn't done yet And also i'm not sure that that would pass muster anyway because it's just the automatic captioning on youtube So I don't get the sense that this is directed solely at youtube they're not going for that low end cat video market But it is very similar to me to the kindle where they say well, we're going to have our own imprint like amazon originals We're going to have our own kindle imprint But we're also going to allow anybody to publish on the platform as long as they meet certain standards of publication And and we'll be able to use that to get a lot more people interested in our product It certainly does imply that they're looking to get to something more like studio product than homebrew Like cable TV local cable access product The implications that you're going to is will someone who is willing to File all the paperwork necessary to get stuff on amazon But they know that they are guaranteed to get it on amazon That's at least one level above being like louis ck and raising six million dollars and having Former your own distribution network or developing a deal with netflix or hulu or one of the other Major tier streaming players So I would expect I would certainly expect a higher level of production as a user I would certainly expect to have good synopsis. I would certainly expect it to be compliant with With people who have disabilities and I would hope for especially if i'm paying money to get this They've said there are what six different ways you can list it including rentals including actually having people pay for it Uh, yes, so long as they come through with that I'm not sure how well they could do that without having some level of human Curation at least someone keeping an eye on this and saying that okay This is not just some person who's holding up like a second generation iphone and saying, okay I'm pouring the water on the sodium and see what happens My eyes my eyes actually that might be a good show, but uh, it's good tv. Yeah, you're right exactly It's I hope it I hope it plays to the strengths of amazon Which is get me people who are really interested in not having to Convince somebody in an office in a suit this creative idea is a good idea But they're willing to put the effort into making something that's a commercially viable idea And let youtube still be the one that if there's just some kid who wants to talk for eight minutes about these new headphones they got or Someone who god forbid wants to put up a 40 year old Dance video that nobody knows who owns it, but someone does but no one has the Motivation to actually secure the rights and improve it and monetize it But what's the alternative that this 40 year old dance video dies and no one ever gets to see it I I would love it if the if it does fill that specific void as opposed to attempting to take some business away from youtube Wait, Andy have you seen anything in the news releases that actually says that they are going to try to curate it And not allow the kid with the sodium in the in the iphone. Nope nothing at all That's what i'm saying. I'm i'm curious to see how well that works again There are so many shows that I would pay for and I do pay for them on youtube Usually via a patreon Because there's just shows that I look forward to far more than I look forward to any literally anything that's airing on nbc Anytime that the x robots dot code at uk guy has a new section of his iron man Hulk buster suit or his bb8 robot build I mean that's I I joined that patreon like after two months saying that I It's a really good day when a new episode of his youtube channel actually appears Um, however, if some of these other things where if I decided to pay well, actually, you know what? I really do need to know how to fix the motor coupling on this washing machine And here is a 10 minute what purports to be a 10 minute how-to video explains everything how to do it And so okay, I'll give you five dollars because that'll be cheaper than buying a book or having a plumber come in And I find out that it's just a guy who just is describing Intellectually how this would work and he's never showing actually what he's doing He's just saying okay, so you just got to make sure you emptied out first and Uh, hose oh hose clamps. You got to make sure you release hose clamps. I'm like I spent five dollars for nothing So I I I'm wondering how well what's the ad version, right? Yeah, you watch you watch the ad version too, but A lot of people are gonna I wonder how many people who are going to be posting video there Are going to say wow, you mean that I get money every time someone watches this This is exactly what I want as opposed to I will get a fraction of a penny every time that maybe ads come in It's it's it's a lot There's a lot to be discovered that really can only be proven once they actually start doing that I will say that I saw a list of their amazing partners At launch and none of them impressed me as something. Wow an entire channel based on this lifestyle magazine No, no, thank you. No, what about Mattel? Mattel's a partner. How's that work? Yeah, how stuff works. I know some good people over there like Jonathan Strickland But yeah, I know what you mean like this isn't this isn't Beth Solaway or Jill Solaway. Sorry, uh, this is um, you know To me, this is amazon taking a middle ground saying we've we've done this with books We have our amazon originals and they're doing well What's another way to get people into the tent without having to go to all the trouble that youtube has to do with Content ID, etc. So they've got a big speed bump in there And I I think you're asking a very interesting question andy Which is how many people will still drive through that speed bump of like, yeah, sure I'll give you my social security number. No problem. I mean, I know how to make artwork in in my uh, my photoshop I'm in I will do captioning. I mean captioning is probably the the biggest sticking point here You can get it done and and then What will we see and I and I guess amazon's willing to open up to that much risk to say Yeah, there will there'll be some stuff on there that won't be that great But it probably won't you know, it won't get discovered enough. So it's fine I do see some things that are an obvious really good fit for this stuff There's so many people who actually want to produce their own short movie or even a full-length movie and they could raise a hundred thousand dollars and Both to advance their own careers and also because they just rather than buy a sports car to Satisfy the midlife crisis They want to have this script that they wrote 10 years ago beat it into shape and actually shoot it professionally And then you can have this hour-long piece of entertainment that really isn't suitable for youtube And would be kind of heartbreaking if you just simply put it on vimeo and didn't get any money for it But the ability to simply say this is a real thing It's real in the sense that i'm i'm expecting it to have a really good presentation I'm expecting people to actually pay for it. That's when you start to see the the the david lynches of the 21st century Just come out of everywhere and that's that that would bring me to this new amazon video venture to see the next david lynch And I think you're also uh, gonna get a lot of people Who are on the youtube platform right now? Maybe skeptical of vessel or not doing great with vessel Little more skeptical of mcn's or haven't been picked up by a big full screen or somebody like that Look at this as another way to say well, I don't have to shut down my youtube channel I can keep that audience and instead of being exclusive. I'll go to amazon and this is another way for me to monetize things So one thing I was thinking did they talk at all about the video? creation tools Is it going to be that you have to create it and upload it yourself? Yeah, and you have to upload it to their spec. It has to be the the proper spec And they've got that all lined out there And certain things will get you into the free tier But if you want to be in the amazon prime tier you have to you have to meet certain resolution levels because they want it to Be hd because everybody expects it to be So yeah, this is this is not this is just a way for them to say hey if you're not Uh, if you don't have a contract with amazon originals, but you've got some high quality stuff Here's an easier way to get it on our platform. Yeah, it's it's always it's the the transformative nature of being a creative person Is the ability to put something in front of an audience without having to convince anybody else that that thing is a good idea And I would hate to see this idea of independent self-produced video Get so successful that unless you are Have a deal with a company that is partly owned by nbc universal You're not going to get the sort of exposure and you're not going to get the sort of attention That anybody who has managed to strike a deal with nbc universal has so if it's someone wants to spend again 100,000 bucks of their own money to make a really good Movie with real equipment and real actors and I just love the fact that you've got all your skin in the game It's there because you've decided that this exists and you're willing to actually sacrifice to make this happen And then maybe we'll get a few hits out of it and maybe that person will then be To be directing the avengers 23, which will be released in about four years from now with the rate They're releasing movies But we we need we need this sort of incubator where people can just express bizarre ideas Because that's the only way we're going to push creativity forward I think you're right. I like the idea that under any circumstance. This is going to be good, right? There's good whatever comes out of this is going to be somebody who's committed to trying to create some quality content Not just the cat video I mean, I've got nothing against cat quality cat videos Not just the cat walking over to the dog to the dog bowl accidentally anymore I mean better than that And even even terrible videos point to how good this the system is that Someone just I always I always think back to the patent Oswald bit about how we came across this horrible movie called the death Death bed the bed that eats people And how he's how he he's always inspired by the fact that he's always putting things He's got like deals to write screenplays for other and he's always being distracted by this that and the other And they have to says that he has to be inspired by the guy who's an even the guy who had the idea for death bed He said no, I am not going to be distracted. I'm going to finish this screenplay I'm going to get this movie made so the fact that even death bed the bed that eats people Will get in front of an audience as horrible as it is means that again the people who are going to make a movie that That maybe is a little bit more mainstream is definitely going to get in there And even if even if it's just a movie that only four people will be glad that they spend $15 a piece for Those four people are going to be really really glad there was this channel for them to uh to distribute on First movie I'm going to look for on this on this platform Death bed the bed that eats people Uh, let's get to our pick of the day, which is another way to watch uh tv holger in houston said when you guys talk about cord cutting I never hear you mention tableau tv at tableau tv.com I used windows media center for years But sometime ago switched to tableau with a lifetime subscription to their guide service And I can connect from mobile devices browser roku and soon apple tv Uh, I used tableau tv back in their first generation and it was a little slow and a little janky But I understand that it's been improved since then I think the one thing that puts people off tableau tv is you have to bring your own Usb drive it doesn't come with a hard drive So when you go to amazon and search on it, you'll see this item often bought with western digital, you know terabyte drives But does allow you to swap that drive out and upgrade it as storage gets bigger So it's an interesting way to get your over-the-air tv Available all through your house because you just put it where the reception is best And then it uses your network to send all of your recordings and your live channels to whatever device you've got So check it out Tableau tv.com. Thank you holger. Send your pics to us folks feedback at daily tech news show dot com You can find more pics at daily tech news show dot com slash picks Right before we get to our messages of the day, alison You had a thought relating to the fact that apple is not going to be allowed to sell iPhones Use the refurbished iPhones in india Yeah, there was a lot of discussion about what that really means and part of what the indian government had said was that they wanted things made in india and We went to india last year and we were taking on a tour of a jute factory And it was like being suddenly dropped into the 1920s before Unions decided there should be safety for human beings. I mean it was a horrific environment with you know It was loud and the the dust level was just insane. I mean they gave us your production But nobody working there was it was just this horrible horrible factory with people working 24 seven they had three shifts of eight hours and The the guide explained to us that this is a completely inefficient factory It costs far far more than they could easily automate it for but the government made the decision to employ the people instead and Yeah, tom showing some pictures to the video audience of what it looked like that's a picture of the sewing machine just covered with jute But it was it was so interesting because it was clear that that the employment of their people was far more important Than the efficiency of that which I was a little worried about how you ever become a First world country if that's the way you work But on the other hand they have the option with a company like apple saying well Let's put all this this u stuff they can say well No, how about you build a factory here where we can employ some people That can be a really good thing for india and and do far more than letting people have the new cool hotness Or the old cool hotness Big jim in the chair room says india has some of the highest duty rates in the world So it's it's the way they uh, they approach their economy That's kind of interesting but you can find to use blackberry there And uh, severin in sunny berlin germany says i have a question for the whole dts crowd I use a blackberry smartphone Does anybody know how many of us are still around? Some years ago when I was still at university I'd frequently see other people using blackberries today. I find myself being Probably alone with the last other blackberry device seen last year And noticing that facebook dropped its blackberry 10 support in march. What's apple do so in 2017? I'm wondering how many of us blackberries are still left. I saw one at ces Take a picture of this guy from behind Yeah, so there's two of you Oh, I can I can beat that I saw somebody in the public of boston's public garden a couple months ago taking a picture with a blackberry tablet Oh The playbook even wow, I was like welcome to 2016 You must be deprived of protein since you're tired your travel through the slipstreams like I didn't want to I didn't want to be rude. I was just fascinated by why he was using a playbook He had it. He still had it. It still worked. Yeah Uh, it it was a great piece of equipment. I had one worked great. Yep had no apps It was it was funny as hell because that was around the time that uh, steve jobs Published a personal letter saying here's why we don't support flash because flash will never work on a tablet And here's what will happen if you ever put flash on a tablet and then I got my my my my review unit of the playbook saying No, that's not true. That's not true. Oh, it's not doing that either battery life is okay. Okay, okay, steve You're wrong wrong wrong wrong difference of opinion on number five, but also wrong at six. So Oh, well, uh, well, uh, yeah Blackberry users we are we're not trying to troll you let us know if you're still using a blackberry How you use it what you use it for we'd love to hear about it because it does seem like the you know The sales numbers keep going down and they're making android phones now Um, so it's it's it's and and and severin wants to know if he dark redeemer's dad still uses a blackberry All right. Well done pop a dark redeemer Well, that is it for this episode of the show andy anatole a pleasure my friend Thank you for joining us today really appreciate it. Lovely to be back. Thank you so much for inviting me I'm so glad you you were willing to come and enthusiastic to come Let folks know where else they could find what you're doing on the internet these days Uh, the price of admission on andy anatole's wild ride is to spell my last name. I'm anatole on twitter I h n is the nancy at isn't tom ko I can read my blog at anotko.com and I know my stuff is hard to find on the chicago sundtimes site, but it is there Just go to sundtimes.com. That's why I usually post links to where you can find stuff on the sundtimes On my twitter feed and on my blog. Yeah, so get to twitter and get to all the rest of the good stuff Ms. Alice and sheridan thank you again for hosting me last week and being a co-host today Where can people find more what you got going on? Well, the best place is pod feed.com and you can find me at On twitter at pod feet, which is slightly easy to spell if you know that it's feet as in the things on the end of your legs This friday is 11 year anniversary for the no silicast. So that's we Congratulations, that's amazing That just says I do stuff forever. I go to hairdresser. I don't even like but I've just been always doing it So I hope she doesn't listen or he Thank you everyone for supporting the show. We do this because you let us do it Everybody out there who supports the show whether it's paypal merchandise just like like buying mugs or supporting us on patreon You are the guys that are making this happen If you're not one of them to fix that right now and go join them patreon.com slash dts We need about one in every hundred or so of you to just give us a buck And we will get peter wells to be able to do his international version of dts Every week instead of every other week So if you've been thinking about giving us support now is the time he did a great episode this week on the whole podcasting Meeting that the new york times reported on he's got great stuff He's got great guests that we can't get to get up at four in the morning australian time But he can get them because he's there in a real time zone with them So give us give us a buck patreon.com Slash dts our email address is feedback at daily tech news show.com. You can give us a call 51259 daily That's 5932459 catch the show live monday through friday 4 30 p.m Eastern and alpha geek radio dot com and diamond club dot tv and visit our website at daily tech news show dot com Back tomorrow with scott johnson and steward sheffa to talk about the history of tech. See you then This show is part of the frog pants network get more at frog pants dot com Diamond club hopes you have enjoyed this bro Oh My mixer is on its last legs It was trying. Yeah, you got stirred sheffa fantastic. Oh, yeah, thanks for uh for putting us in touch You know steward, uh, andy Uh, no, he's the guy that did the computer chronicles back in the 1980s. I'm sorry. I thought it was steward shiflitt I was I was I was thinking is that the same guy sheffa. Sheffa Spectacular. Yeah, he's so interesting. Oh cool. I'm glad he's still around. Yeah You guys are gonna cover vr then and now and worried he everyone wants it to go He's got a video andy on on um, he's got all this stuff on archive.org And in fact, he was one of the people who helped get video into archive.org He's part of who made that happen and he's got I was watching his vr video from like 1982 and I swear it What's cool is his his commentary is exactly completely relevant to today The thing you're looking at looks old and silly, but his conversation's not silly at all. It's not like Oh, look at how silly that is. He's a visionaries. Oh, he's so interesting Super I'll be sure to check it out. Yeah Well, andy, we stick around and like come up with titles and I edit and chat and ja and stuff But uh, don't feel like you you have to hang around. I know you've you've done a marathon stretch there Yeah, I'm gonna get up and stretch my legs a little bit, but let's do this again. Yeah, please Thank you so much. Thanks again. Nice to see you. Have a great day everyone. I see you too I will add to what you were saying allison about the indian factory is that um One reason why for the decline of textile industries in a lot of Central african communities is because the inundation of donated clothing From the west and that literally crowds out the local manufacturing for clothes And it's one of those things where you think oh, this is great. We're we're being beneficent. We're helping out these people But in kind of a roundabout way, we're also undercutting their local economies Because now we're just flooding the market Uh devaluing the work that you know the the local craftsmen or factories are doing in exchange for you know I guess goodwill Speaking of goodwill titles goodwill titles All right expensive cat videos leads the pack H2o plus any sodium uh plus sodium equals youtube Drop boxing like it's hot. It's kind of keeping up with the chinese jones. It sounds like that one Uh Facebook only lives in the real world facebook promises not to erase the real world Well, facebook reality did distortion field If python eats an elephant, what kind of scripting was used a little long but Amazon video comma not so fast Amazon video not your grandfather's youtube Uh Is who blocks the ad block ad blockers Uh, there's a double blocker one that I saw earlier. Where did that one go? High quality cat videos another cat video we want it's a cat video we need Xiaomi's taking it to the max reddit paywall blues There it is, uh, steve. I wrote blocking the ad blocking blockers Oh, it was pretty concise blocking the ad block blocking block. I just moved it back to y'all show me Who blocks the ad blockers ad blockers right does so the main subject was the video staff right? Expensive cat videos is pretty good. I like it Yeah expensive cat videos for expensive taste. It's like Uh, is it frisky? What was the cat food that the commercial they put in a little, uh, champagne glass thing? Yeah That frisky's I you know, I don't think cats really care. I think it just needs to taste good to them But a lot of that is just really playing on the ego of the the owner Oh, I'm pretty sure all of it, right?  It's like dogs don't care. They have fur for a reason All right, so we're so we're going with There we go. Oh fancy feast expensive cat videos Did you pick one tom? Sorry, did you pick one? Uh, no, what I was expensive cat videos sounds like I think everyone's agreeing on expensive cat videos. Excellent No, I uh Swapped some equipment around And remember I said I was not I that uh, we weren't seeing the Everything in uh audio hijack. Yeah. Well, it only recorded my mic Oh, no So I'm I'm getting the backup recording out, which is why I almost said do you want me to record too because I could always I actually have a backup recording. So it's fine, but I had to go. It's not the normal procedure You know people were saying in the chat room that you sounded muffled You didn't sound muffled to me though But I have crappy headphones on Well, you sound like you did yesterday when you had the issue. So I thought it was just the same You sounded great at my house, by the way With your setup. Yeah, and I guess what I would say is it sounded exactly the same, which I thought was uh That's good You can tell I'm proud of my brother and his uh Invictus games thing He's the uh coach of the wheelchair basketball team for the wounded warriors for, uh The coast guard and navy and then when they go to Invictus, he's for the whole us Are they uh proceeding have they played where uh, yeah, they're they're doing really well He says that they're gonna play uh the netherlands in the in the semi finals But he says the netherlands will never make it across the center line until they decide to start letting him because he Feel sorry for him and that they'll end up playing britain in for the uh for the gold on thursday So he thinks they're much better than netherlands. Yeah, and he's not all bluster. All right Some bluster it's just a marginal bluster I love watching him when he's when he's uh, they televised these games and I love watching him because since I know him So well, I know what he's screaming when he's going And I can hear his words, you know He got to meet prince harry. So that was nice The harry prince Prince henry of wales Or prince harry Funny when uh What's what's his father prince? charles Prince of wales when I was a kid I I literally thought it was like the animal wales. It's like, oh, that's kind of cool It's like aquaman He has prince of wales The wales will all do my bidding. He's a scepter and a trident and he's like, you know telling him to do stuff That's amazing Fetch me my dinner I want to be prince of sea lions Whale with a chef's hat pops out as like a full like a full 12 course meal laid out Another told me that she was like 11 years old when she found out that that uh feathers didn't grow out of the tops of indians heads Oh, I see Feather headdress that they came that way. Yeah prince of wales No, that isn't for altar drawings. That's big gym Yeah Roger, I think of you every time I Pick up dog poop when I'm walking my dog now because of our conversation Oh I don't know what it is with this particular city, but it's like I know there's a lot of dog owners And a majority of them are very responsible, but man, it's just like those one or two Well, it's the spam effect right like it the 98 percent of the dog owners can be perfect And just two percent will cover the ground Well, you know, that's that goes that that happens like any job like say you work with a Good-sized company and like 95 percent of the people are awesome But it just takes a handful of jerks to really make your Your work life a living a living hell because you're just there It's hard to just I don't know how the best way to describe it, you know, just one or two can ruin your entire day I think you could put that sentence on everything in life.  It's like Ah the waste And especially if it's expensive then you feel cheated.  Oh, look, it's already tearing at the seams Why'd you buy that jacket? Because it's cool Actually, that's not turning. It's great It just doesn't have the same learning as the other one. So it's a little cooler like temperature-wise, but I just layer it Because I'm in San Francisco. I layer things So I've been looking for somebody to talk on my show about what journalism really is these days Maybe Andy's the right person. He seemed to be great. He'd be great Passion on the topic. Oh, yeah, absolutely. And he's been in the business for a good Amount of time. So when he what he got into there about people copying and pasting, you know Because I I get I get people who try to say I'm a journalist and it's I tried to get ena freed but she was always too busy. She'd say she could do it.  I promise Never worked. Yeah, and she probably meant it Yeah, no enina and she probably just couldn't You know, she is crazy busy Yeah, I think I tried Right around the time that uh, recode was getting started. Yeah Probably a really good time I tried to get Kara Swisher Kara Swisher That didn't go anywhere. She's like, hey, I'd love to but I'm really busy All right, yeah, I know both of them from going to all things the all those years, but uh Like like in general like journalism general or tech journalism, uh, in particular Well, my reference is tech journalism, but I suppose it could expand well beyond that, right? Because I think I think it's Sasha segan over at pc make but also, um Who else do I know that is generally sd?  I've seen it through all its phases I went to journalism school Here's what journalism is, uh, right, you know that There's a lot of people who could do that like but there's a lot of people who could do it really really well right And also somebody that I have some sort of relationship with that I that I know a little bit is fun Big jimps is just a robert young. Is he a journalist? Yeah, he went to journalism school. Oh, he did he worked in newspapers interesting He doesn't have the consistent worked for 30 years thing uh, it'd be the only the only part of my My grand pronouncement there that he wouldn't have but yeah He and I both went to journalism school Yeah, I didn't even think of that when you wanted to talk to me. No don't have me on I I never I I I don't consider this journalism necessarily. Well, that's part of the question right analysis. Yeah, uh, and and I didn't You know, I worked at tech TV I worked at a campus newspaper worked at a radio. I worked a lot of radio stations if you want to talk about radio Uh, I've got more experience there But I'm thinking you want to like a newspaper vet like somebody who's been in the trenches Well, I I think the the main thing I'm looking at is to me a journalist is The person who gets on a plane and flies to Algeria to interview the guy, you know, not that's a reporter Yeah, and that is the classic that is the you know purist representation of journalism There are other things that are still journalism that aren't that but yeah Sure, or I mean a firsthand review of a gadget that you write up a review and post it I think that that's that's a form of journalism in our tech world Um, but so much of everything that's out there now is just regurgitation of what's already there And that's kind of what we're doing here and doing analysis But a lot of them is it's not analysis. It's just regurgitation. And I it irritates me No, it's it's it's the difference between You know to me what we do is sort of like the op-ed Uh columns, you know, we're we're somebody who's taking what's what's been reported And putting it in context adding information giving you a chance to understand it better And there's a place for that right Then what you're talking about is the people who report who find out what happened What's interesting about technology is it's really not that hard to find out what most things happen because companies tell you And they give you the product PR release. Yeah, what where it becomes different is the rumor mongering And and I think in technology it gets out of hand personally, but uh, yes Dwight Silverman, uh, is Houston Chronicles another good one Um Our row was set should be exciting All right, I think I actually created a file that is listenable We managed to create a file that was a stereo It was an interview we did at nab and it was stereo mono That was completely out of phase. So if you listen to it in mono, it was no sound at all That's funny. Can't self out. Yeah, it was really that was awesome. That's crazy Everybody's wondering why my show is 11 minutes shorter than you thought it would be that would be why Best things happen I'm gonna have to Bominos. Yeah, me too.  You always feel like you're going to get a report card, right? I don't anymore I have a really good dentist and I always feel like I'm getting my teeth in better shape Because I also like rarely have to have anything done other than just the the cleaning See that's the difference between tom and most of everyone else everyone else Every time I really like my dentist, but I still feel that way like when they do the x-ray It's not like I think they're gonna Gonna gouge me.  It's just the time Wow, sorry another j martin just uh in the chat room disney infinity shutting down The ones who do the um, what should mckay call it's the little they're basically disney's version of the ambio Yeah Skylanders, yes Oh, no skylanders is activitions. It's what is disney's disney infinity is the name of the skylanders thing Is it skylanders like thing? Yeah, it's skylanders, but it's it's disney's version. It's So it's their version of yeah Skylanders was the first and disney infinity was kind of their their attempt at 147 million charge in connection with the shutdown Yeah, disney getting out of game development.  They're not getting out of lucas though Are they well, they're so I guess they don't really do much there anymore anyway They showed lucas art. So you're right. Never mind They're they're slowly shifting all their game production to third parties. Yeah, like they're gonna license, but They've been doing that for the past four or five years Yeah, like they've been slowly trying to withdraw from it because they Want to focus on stuff they can they they know they can do well consistently All right Well, now that we've got some breaking news in thanks everybody for watching and hanging in there. Thanks again to andy inotko Thank you, allison. Bye. We'll see you later


Live from San Diego, California, it's theCUBE! Covering KubeCon and CloudNativeCon, brought to you by Red Hat, the CloudNative Computing Foundation and its ecosystem partners. Welcome back, this is theCUBE's coverage of KubeCon, CloudNativeCon 2019 in San Diego, 12,000 in attendance, I'm Stu Miniman, my co-host is John Troyer, and welcome back to the program, a multi-time CUBE alumni. Your Honor, Aviv, who's the CTO and co-founder of Iguazio, we've had quite a lot founders, CTOs, there's big brains at this show, your Honor, so let's start, there's really a gathering, there's a lot of effort building out a very complicated ecosystem. Give us first kind of your overall impressions of the show and this ecosystem. Yeah, so we're very early on on this ecosystem, we were one of the first batch of CNSF members when there were a few dozens of those, not like a thousand of those, so I've been to all those shows, we're part of the CNSF committees for different things and initiating, I think this has become much more mainstream, I told you before, it's sort of the new VM world, a lot more, all the infrastructure vendors along with middleware and applications that are coming here.  Give us, what's the cautionary tale that we should learn and make sure that we don't repeat? You know, so I've been in CTO for many years in different companies and what everyone used to say about me, I'm always right, I'm only one year off usually, I'm usually a little more optimistic, so you know, we've been talking about Cloudera and Hadoop World sort of going down and Kubernetes and cloud services essentially replacing them, we were talking about it four years ago and what you see that's actually happening, you know, with the collapse of MEPR and Hortenware going into Cloudera, things are going down. Customer are now telling us, we need equivalent solution for Kubernetes, we're not going to maintain two clusters. So I think in general, we've been picking on many of those friends, we've invented serverless before it was even called serverless with Nucleo and now we're expanding it further. And now we see the new emerging trends really around machine learning and AI. That's sort of the big thing. I'm surprised, you know, that's our space, we're essentially doing a data science platform as a service, fully automated around serverless constructs of people who can develop things really, really quickly. And what I see that, you know, third of the people I talk to are, have some relations to machine learning and AI. Yeah, maybe explain that for our audience a little bit because when, you know, Kubernetes first started very much an infrastructure discussion, but in the last year or two, very much application specific, we hear many people talking about those data use cases, AI and ML early days, but you know, how does that fit into the overall discussion? Yeah, but it's simple. You know, if you're moving to the cloud, there are two workloads. There's lift and shift workloads and there are new workloads, okay? Lift and shift, why bother moving them to Kubernetes? Okay, so you end up with new workloads. Everyone is trying to be cloud natives or elastic services and all that. Everyone have to feed data and machine learning into those new application. This is why you see those trends that talk about all data integration and various frameworks and all that in that space. So I don't think it's by coincidence. I think it's that's because new applications in corporate intelligence, that's why you hear a lot of the talk about those things. You're right. What I loved about the architecture, what you just said is like, people don't want to run another cluster. I don't want to run two versions of Kubernetes. You know, if I'm moving there, you're still built on that kind of infrastructure framework and knowledge of how to do serverless and how to make more nodes and fewer nodes and persistent storage and all that sort of good stuff and run TensorFlow and run all these big data apps. But you can talk about that just as the advantage to your customer because it seems like you could run it on top of GKE. You could run it on prem. I could run my own Kubernetes. You could just give me a stack. So we say Kubernetes is not interesting. I don't want anyone to get offended, okay? But Kubernetes is not the big deal. The big deal is organizations want to be competitive in this sort of digital world. They need to build new applications. All the ones are in sort of maintenance mode. And the big point is about delivering new applications with elastic scaling because your customers may be a million people behind some sort of app, okay? So that's the key thing. And Kubernetes is a way to deliver those microservices. But what we figured out, it's still very complicated for people, okay? Especially in the data science world, it takes about few weeks to deliver a model on a Jupyter notebook, whatever, and then productizing it is about a year. That's something we've seen. Between six months to a year to productize things that are relatively simple, okay? And that's because people think about the container, the TensorFlow, the CUDA driver, whatever, how to scale it, how to make it perform, et cetera. So what we came up with is, traditionally there's a notion of serverless, which is abstraction with very slow performance, very limited set of use cases. We said serverless is about elastic scaling, paper use, full automation around DevOps and all that, okay? Why cannot apply to other use cases of really high concurrency, high-speed batch, distributed training, distributed workload? Because we're coming, if you know my background, VP in Melanox and other high-performance companies, so we have a high-performance DNA. So we don't know how to build things that are extremely slow. It sort of irritates me. So the point is that how can we apply this notion of abstraction and scaling and all that to a variety of workloads? And this is essentially what Iguazu did. This is a combination of high-speed data technology for moving data around between those functions and extremely high-speed set of functions that work on the different domains of data collection and ingestion, data analytics, machine learning training and machine learning model serving. So a customer can come on our platform and we have testimonials around that, that things that they thought about building on Amazon or even on-prem for months and months, they built in our platform in few weeks with fewer people, because the focus is on building the application. The focus is not about tuning your Kubernetes. We go to customers, some of them are large banks, et cetera. They say, our IT likes Kubernetes, we have our own Kubernetes. So you know what? We don't bother. Initially, we used to bring our own Kubernetes, but then I don't mind. We do struggle sometimes because our level expertise in Kubernetes is way more sophisticated than what they have to say, okay, we've installed Kubernetes and we come with our software stack. No, you didn't. You didn't configure the security, you didn't configure Ingress, et cetera. So sometimes it's easier for us to bring, but we don't want to get into this sort of tension with IT. Our focus is to accelerate development on the new application that are intelligent, move applications from, if you think of the traditional data analytics and data science, it's about reporting. And what people want to do and some applications we've announced this week an application around real-time cyber collection, it's being used in some different governments is that you can collect a lot of information, a SMS, telephony, video, et cetera. And in real time, you could detect terrorists, okay? So those application requires high concurrency, always on rolling upgrades, things that weren't there in the traditional BI oracle, you know, kind of reporting way. So you have this wave of putting intelligence into more highly concurrent online application. It requires all the DevOps sort of aspects, but all the data analytics and machine learning aspects to come along. All right, so Yaron, speaking of those workloads, for machine learning, Kubeflow is the project moving that space along. Give us the update there. Yeah, so there is sort of a rising star in the Kubernetes community around how to automate machine learning workflow. That's Kubeflow. I'm personally one of the committers in Kubeflow and what we've done because it's very complicated because Google developed Kubeflow as one of the services on GKE, okay? And they tweaked everything. It works great in GKE, even that it's relatively new technology and people want to run it in a more generic. So one of the things in our platform is a managed Kubeflow that works natively with all the rest of the solutions. Another thing that we've done is we made it fully serverless. So instead of Kubeflow approach is very, you know, Kubernetes oriented, containers, the animals, all that.  You've mentioned a couple of times, how does serverless as you define it fit in with Kubernetes? Is that working together just functions on top or I'm just trying to make sure we parse and understand? You'll hear different things. I think when most people say serverless, they mean sort of frontend application, things that are sort of low concurrency, et cetera. You know, when we mean serverless, we have eight different engines that each one is very good in different domain, like distributed deep learning, you know, distributed machine learning, et cetera. And we know how to fit the thing into any workload. So for me, we deliver the elastic scaling, the paper use, and the ease of use of sort of no DevOps across all the eight workloads that we're addressing. For most people it's like a single trick pony. And I think really the future is moving to that. And if you think about serverless, there is another aspect here which is very important for machine learning and is reusability. I'm not going to develop any algorithm in the world. Okay, there are a bunch of companies or users or developers that can develop an algorithm and I can just consume it. So the future in data science, but not just data science, is essentially to have like marketplaces of algorithms pre-made or analytic tools or maybe even vendors licensing their technology through sort of pre-packed solution. So we're a great believer of, forget about the infrastructure, focus on the business components and daisy chain them into a pipeline like your pipeline and run them. And that will allow you most reusability, the lowest amount of cost, best performance, et cetera. That's great, I just want to double click on the serverless idea one more time. But so you're developing, it's an architectural pattern and you're developing these concepts yourself. You're not actually, sometimes the concept gets confused with the implementations of other people's serverless frameworks or things like that. Is that correct? I think there are confusion. I'm getting asked a lot of times, how do you compare your technology compared to let's say K-native, you've heard the term. K-native is just a technology. Or open FAS. Or open FAS is a CGI server. It's an open community, it's very nice for hobbyists. But if you're an enterprise, you need security, LDAP integration, authentication for everything. You need UIs, you need CLIs, you need all of those things. So Amazon provides that with Lambda. Can you compare Lambda to K-native? No, K-native is I need to go from Git and build and all that. Serverless is about taking a function and clicking and deploying. It's not about building. And the problem is that this conference is about people, IT people, from people that like to build. So they don't like to get something that work. They want to get the Lego building block so they can play. So in our view, serverless is not open FAS or K-native. It's something that you click and it works and have all the enterprise set of features. We've extended it to different levels of magnitude of performance. I'll give you an anecdote. I did a comparison for a customer who was asking me the same question, not about K-native, but this time Lambda. How do you guys compare with Lambda? Now, Nukio is extremely high performance. We're doing up to 400,000 events on a single process. And the customer said, you know what? I have a use case, I need like 5,000 events per second. How do you guys compare, total across all my functions? How do you compare against Lambda? We went into the price calculator, 5,000 events per second on Lambda, that's $50,000. Okay, $50,000. We do about, let's say even in simple functions, 60,000 per process, $500 VM on Amazon. $500 VM on Amazon with our technologies, 60,000 transactions per second, 5,000 events per second on Lambda, that's 50,000. 100 times more expensive. So it depends on the design point. We design our solution to be extremely efficient, high concurrency. If you just need something to do a webhook, use Lambda. If you are trying to build a high concurrency application, efficient, an enterprise application on a serverless architecture construct, come to us. Yeah, so just, I'll posit this for you because it reminds me what you were talking about about the builders here. In the early days of VMware, to get it to work the way I wanted to, people need to participate and build it. And there's the Ikea effect. If I actually helped build it a little bit, I like it more. To get to the vast majority to adopt those things, it needs to become simplified and I can't have all the applications move over to this environment if I have to constantly tweak that and everything. So that's the trend we've been really seeing this year is some of that simplification needs to get there. There's focus on the operators, the day to operations, the applications so that anybody can get there without having to build themselves. So we know there's still work to be done, but if we've crossed the chasm and we want the majority to now adopt this, it can't be that I have to customize it. It needs to be more turnkey. Yeah, and I think it's a different in attitude between what you'll see in Amazon reinvent in a couple of weeks and what you see here because there is also the focus of we're building application. What kind of tools Andy Jess is going to just launch today on the floor, okay? So we can just consume it and build our new application. They're not thinking, how did Andy Jess, he built his tools, okay? And I think that's the opposite here. It's like, how is Istio working inside underneath the hood? Who cares about Istio, you know? You care about having connectivity between two points and all that. How do you implement it? Let someone else take care of it and then you can apply your few people that you have on solving your business problem, not on infrastructure. You know, I just met a guy, came to our booth. We've seen our demo, pretty impressive how we write few function and its scales and does everything automatically. He said, we want to build something like you're doing, you know, not really, like only 10% of what you just showed me and we have about six people and for three months we're just like scratching our head. I said, okay, you could use our platform, pay us some software license and now you'll get, you know, 10 times more functionality and your six people can do something more useful. He says, right, let's do a POC. So that's our intention and I think people are starting to get it because Kubernetes is not easy. Again, people tell me we installed Kubernetes, now install your stack and then they haven't installed like 20% of all the things that you need to install. Well, Yaron Jave, always pleasure to catch up with you. Thanks for all the updates and I know we'll catch up with you again soon. Sure. All right. For John Troyer, I'm Stu Miniman. We'll be back with more coverage here from KubeCon, CloudNativeCon in San Diego. Thanks for watching the Kube.


Hello, my name is Nicholas Yardie and this message is for the San Jose State University student awards and scholarship committee. I have just learned that I have received the special session scholarship for new students, and I cannot be more grateful to you. Thank you so much for this, for the trust that you've placed in me and my abilities by giving me this. I promise you that you will not regret this, and I'm going to do great things both at SJSU and in the future. Yeah, I had a plan for how I was going to get graduate school paid for, and I was confident that I was going to be able to pull that off, but this has changed everything for the better. See, it's for you so much better. This is going to not only make my time at the school that much easier, but it's going to open up opportunities for me that much sooner once I graduate. So, from the bottom of my heart, thank you so much for your kindness, and I'm going to pay it forward.