Welcome to NewsClick, we have with us Paul Divakar, a well-known face among the Dalit activists who not only made atrocities as an issue across the country but also on the world forum where the issue of atrocities has been taken to the UN and the issue of discrimination was debated widely in the Durban Conference. Welcome to NewsClick, Paul. Thank you Ambedkar, nice meeting you. So today we will not only discuss about the Dalit issues but he also believes that economic empowerment of the Dalits is important because that is the way we can bring them out of the misery. So Paul, you had seen that the last year budget there was no plan budget and you have been following the budget demanding that there be a special allocation for the SESD. So how do you see the change with the cancellation of the plan economy? Before we go into that, I think one point we will have to be clear. That is the so-called rights of the Dalits, we normally divided into the civil and political rights and then the economic rights. One of the things that we will have to notice is that violence is only one visible part of the tip of the iceberg. The systemic economic exclusion is a much more deeper and it affects the body politic of the whole country and the people who are contributing to the nation. So what is happening with the budgets? You know that there are two, three types of revenue to the government, how the government gets. One is the direct taxes that we pay to our income tax and others, the personal and indirect tax, then all the roti kapata macaan, all the things that we buy are also taxed very much and now GST has also made sure that this is getting much higher. Now this revenue if you calculate as an aggregate, Dalits, Adivasis and other marginalized communities, the proportion of the taxes they pay is much higher than the rich and the incomes that is being derived off to the government coffers when they are given back, they are given back as development schemes or the larger infrastructure, roads and others. But what is given back to the Dalits, Adivasis and the other marginalized is only less than 20 percent of what they actually pay to the government and this is currently being researched and this study I hope will come but what is appalling is apart from the violence that is taking place the exclusion from the government resources is so high that today there is a double or triple marginalization that Dalits are facing apart from the violence this kind of exclusion from education, exclusion from civic communities, exclusion from health and other aspects that the government has a duty to function. So this is the context in which the budgets are really important so that is why I think we need to really look at where the money is really going. For a long time I think 1979 actually for the schedule tribes and 1981 I think for the schedule cars this whole special component plan and tribal supply has come to being and of course these flows, these fund flows they have divided it as plan and non-plan so government has at that point has decided the proportion of the population is to be cut from the development part of the that is this called the plan budget which is if it is 16.2 then you also get 16.2 of the plan budget and out of that set that money aside and then plan it from the perspective of where the communities are because this money is specifically to bridge the gap existing between the SCs, STs and the non-SCST community. So if there is a gap of in education then it is to you need to make sure that education programs are sufficiently planned not as a general scheme but specifically to see that these gaps are built. So if it is entrepreneurship, if it is skill, if it is employment, if it is several others so how do you see this kind of a additional amount that is needed to get the development on par with the rest of the community so that then we are able to deal with the fairly equitable way in which the communities can contribute. But what has been the experience because in news I think it was NCHR which broke that commonwealth some money was actually diverted from the special component plan so what do you think is the experience of different governments and how do they treat the special budget allocated to this community. It is a sad story as it is with many of our legislations you know when it comes to the practice the implementation is the weakest and here also what they have said is they have put after a lot of many years I think at least around 15 to 20 years of this whole thing has come in the people's demand has grown so when the demand has grown the allocations have come to almost the levels that are supposed to be given. At the central level unfortunately even at the level of allocation the required percentage is not being given to the schedule cost. For example last year we should have had 99,873 crores should have been the due but they have in fact only given 52,393 crores they have allocated so at the allocation stage half has been cut but then when you look at this half this 52,393 crores how it has been allocated it is paper allocation like for example let us take UGC for example now UGC I mean you would also know you have also been one of the persons who really been fighting for the and demanding higher education for the Dalit community, Nadivasi communities when you look at this 500 crores that the UGC is supposed to allocate only 4.5% of it is directly goes to the schedule cost due lengths in the form of scholarships or something. The rest of the money around 52% of this is for creation of assets capital assets so which means what in the name of the Dalits you are building college buildings and then the rest around 40% of the of this goes for institutional grants so you give it for the maintenance of that institutions so what is taking and you know education is one of the directly and easily planable things and implementable things but what is actually happening it is not happening the money that is set aside is not based on the needs of the communities or for the thing but it is a technical computer allocation which means you take 16.6% you see 500 and odd crores of UGC then you say okay so much it goes for the university grants commission so the money does not reach but the figures show as schedule cost the same thing the schedule price so if education is happening this way employment generation skill development the service six year beyond the entire except for certain schemes of Indira was you know and now I think Pradhan Mantri the housing schemes and maybe some part of the midday meals given midday meals scheme is a general scheme there is very little money so which means out of 99,893 crores which is allocated supposed to be allocated 52,893 half of it is gets allocated among the half of it may be around 20,000 crores directly goes to schedule cost in some way and that real allocation and that real allocation when it gets to spending only half of that gets spent rest is turned back to the central government what about the states diverting the funds to other departments does it happen do you monitor the same thing I mean three of the states have made the legislations out of this one of the things we have also been asking at the central level is have legislation say unless we have legislation there is no leverage from the communities they are not able to so you need a very efficient complaints mechanism because there is a duty bearer negligence there is a willful negligence in the states Karnataka Telangana, Andhra and Himachal have made legislations four of the states have legislated and we looked at Telangana and Andhra they have they have qualitatively done better but the diversions and non implementation of this is still not reached a very desirable level so there is still going for infrastructure but this hopefully the communities will be able to really take take it into their demands because it is an act and now they will have to file complaints mechanisms and then see that how they will be able to but is there a monitoring mechanism incorporated in the act or whom do they have to approach if that is not being implemented there is a council there is a complaints there is a nodal officer that is appointed at the state level there are certain officers that are appointed at the district level for its implementation and each ministry is supposed to have each department is supposed to have a nodal person but in some departments it is done in some departments it is not done I think this we are mobilizing as many communities and this actually we have now taken higher education we have written to the finance minister there is a 12,000 crores of committed liability that is pending and the states have not received this amount oh this is the same post matrix this is the post matrix scholarship fund and after a lot of pressure by ministers by the members of the parliament the finance ministry has taken into it and has reduced as a released some amount but still the last year's committed liability still lies at 5000 crores and the current demand which needs to be given is still another 5000 crores so you still have 10,000 crores and you may have heard the kind of dropping out of students from higher education of Dalit students and the misery that many of our brothers and sisters are facing because of this non-implementation of this higher education this is massive and when we want to take this up as I mean this is a crime this is a crime against the people that the current government is committing and I think this unless it is really redressed immediately it leads to a massive exclusion of Dalit Nadivasi students so the budget as due again on February 1st so is there any special demand or what is the approach from NCDHR and how do you think you will bring about some kind of direction in the implementation and allocation? We have brought this again to the notice of the finance minister and had once again reminded him that the they have committed actually to bring a legislation now that is still pending then we said please do not make these notional allocations anymore because this notional allocations is a major diversion your misleading communities and this budget you know is a act and that has to be implemented and this violation it means to violation and somehow it is not sufficiently been held accountable governments are not held accountable so we brought that notice and we told him at least on schemes like higher education on schemes as Indra the housing and entrepreneurship development and in skill development and of course in horticulture because this is one where most of our communities are involved in land and land based those be clear so whenever you have schemes make it like how you have made the employment guarantee act so that wherever there is a immediate guarantee of the schemes then communities are able to hold them accountable if it is not reaching to them. With that note I think we will hope the government implements the SCST component plan and the Dalit community are benefited.


So finally Ivan, who works for the Manson Unit in the UK. Ivan, I think he needs a cheer too. One, two, three. Hi, so Ivan more or less the same space as Manuel, so I'm probably not going to spend too much time telling you about the context because it's the same one. It's the shouting over the fence problem. And there's a gentleman right here in this room, a medical doctor, who called me from Sierra Leone saying, among other things, I have this problem, shouting over the fence. So we actually approached the exact same problem in a similar way. Now, there were actually three different teams in MSF, and thank goodness for intersexual cooperation, we actually knew about each other due to the innovation fair because there was a team in Brussels that did an application that was almost as good as ours. As a matter of fact, when we discovered what they were doing, we changed our trajectory somewhat to be complementary because what they were doing was really solving the most immediate problem. It was a very simple, very fast cycle, and we felt very strongly that we should be actually steering away from duplicating that, and we actually shifted it about what we were doing in order to be complementary. There was another initiative in MSF Switzerland with something called a scan pen, a pen that as you write it scans your movements, and that was an even more possibly flexible system but more sophisticated. We felt somewhere in the middle between a very simple, quickly developed thing and a very complex thing, the scan pen that's perhaps appropriate for clinical trials and really complex information, and we felt somewhere in the middle. Now, the environment, there are a lot of people out there who are developing apps for Ebola. I think there were household pets developing apps for Ebola, but not that many people were really thinking about the constraints, the infrastructure that's needed. So I've been saying to our colleagues in the tech world, we don't really understand the realm of the possible and what can be done with today's technology and today's coding environments, but you have no idea what our constraints are. The people in the Google office think that the internet is like oxygen. It's everywhere. As a matter of fact, in our environment, it's quite difficult to come across reliable internet. All of the same constraints that were identified by the other projects we found as well. And of course, there's a user. So as a little preview, some of the people that we brought in the project were the people who developed websites for the visually impaired and the dexterity impaired, which pretty much is the case when you're working in an Ebola center. So our goal was very simple. The same currency that was identified by Manuel and his team was the same currency we looked for. It's PPE minutes. The amount of resources it takes to get somebody for one minute inside of a high-risk zone in an Ebola center who's capable of providing patient care. We don't want any one of those minutes wasted doing anything other than patient care unless it's absolutely necessary. So primarily, we were looking for saving in clinicians' time. Secondarily, sure, it should collect more and better data. But actually, there's a wonderful comment from the epidemiologist working on the Task Force, Francesco, saying, if you serve the clinicians well, then they will use it, so we will have data. So what we actually really aimed for was a clinical tool to help medics do their jobs, rather than an epidemiological tool to collect data. So again, this question of the realm of the possible that the developers know and the realm of the constraints that we know, we actually had a lot of parameters that we imposed upon them. No dependence on networks, graceful degradation. Somebody asked earlier about what do you do when the system breaks? Well, if one part breaks, the rest needs to keep working as much as possible. Develop everything modular, so if the server breaks, you've still got the information on the tablet. If the tablet breaks, you've got the information on the server or another tablet. That's what we mean by graceful degradation. Modular, make sure that we don't design a monolithic system that you have to take or leave the entire thing. If, for example, the OCG team with a scan pen wants a local server, we developed one. So you can take any part of what we did and use it. And by the way, everything we did was completely open source, hardware, and software. It's all on a GitHub. It's for anyone, any agency, anywhere to use. The GitHub is a bit of a mess right now, but we'll get there. But it's, in principle, open to everyone. So the three elements that we thought of, as I said, everybody's developing applications, but what are the actual layers that need to be involved here? Well, the first layer is infrastructure. This is our server. When I first hear about a server client architecture, I go, oh, geez, and dependence on the internet. No, no, we can have a local server. And I'm thinking, oh, good, 19-inch rack mount thing with an air conditioner and a fan and a great big cable that has to go to the generator that can never stop. Kind of like the stuff that I can see in that back window there, these great rack mount machines.  That thing is running a full GNU Linux operating system. It's a fully-fledged computer, a dual-core Pentium 500 megahertz computer, a bit like your laptop from five or six years ago. So suddenly, that whole constraint, if you can't have a client server architecture so that things on one device can propagate to another, ah, now we have one. For the first time in my 12 years in this field, that I can say, that's probably reliable enough. You can actually say to a doctor or a nurse, this needs to be running for you to do your round. The only time it did go down was when somebody unplugged it to charge their mobile phone, but we solved that one as well. So that's the infrastructure layer, and the next layer is actually hardware. So we found this tablet. We went into PC World in London, wearing PPE, but the poor fellow at the PC went, oh, I'm sorry, sir, I'm going to have to call my manager. And the manager came, don't worry, we're just getting stuff for an Ebola sentence here on the on. It's fine. That was a fun visit, but we came up with a tablet, which is waterproof, but consumer-level waterproof for playing with your friends in the pool. It's the Sony that you see on TV, people jumping in the pool. And then, with the help of Google and some volunteers from the tech world, we actually developed first a 3D printed and then a polycarbonate injection molded case. Polycarbonate, you make bulletproof stuff out of.  Probably doesn't work, but it's really tough and flexible plastic, so we actually turned a consumer waterproof and rugged device into one that I'm not going to do what he didn't throw at someone, unless you really upset me. But we developed something which is actually quite robust, and we developed things like wireless charging so that we can leave the thing always in the high-risk zone. It never has to come out, and we're actually safe for the infection control. For that matter, you can actually dip the thing in 0.5% chlorine, enough to give you a good solid chemical burn for 10 minutes, and it comes out of it just fine. And so, the third layer, then, we have, first, the infrastructure, which is this wireless network and the local server. We have the hardware around this ruggedized tablet, and then we have some software. Well, the software is basically trying to replace this paper chart. Same problem we had over here. How do we take that writing on paper, at least not take any more time if not go faster, but then eliminate the step of shouting over the fence? So on the left, we have the paper chart that was used, and on the right, we have basically the dashboard of the application that we did. Now, for those of you who know a little tech, what we really did was take some open-source frameworks. One is ODK, Open Data Kit, which Laura talked about this morning. The other one was OpenMRS, Open Medical Records System.  We took Open Data Kit, and then we strapped it onto OpenMRS, and in the middle, we put a custom Android dashboard. So that's a weird thing to do, and it takes a lot of work. One of the principles of this kind of work is it's really complicated to make it simple. But we did, in the end, quite simple great big green buttons that you can see quite well even through fog ski goggles and you can use and you can touch with even wet double gloves. We did a lot of testing in the Ebola training center in Amsterdam and Brussels to make sure that this would actually work ergonomically. And when we hit the field, it actually did, pretty much straight out of the box. Rather astonishingly, here we have really enthusiastic adoption by medics, including national staff who were immediately taken with, oh, this is faster. The very first patient that we saw with this gave some information about his family that he needed to be transferred. He was convalescing and he had to go out and he had to tell us how to reach his family. He gave us that information, the pen didn't work. The tablet did. So literally, the first patient that we saw with this, the tablet outperformed the paper. No, I wish I could say it continued that way, but there were ups and downs. Broadly speaking, when we arrived, our intake was tremendous. However, it's complicated to make it simple and it took us quite a while to get this rolling. And sadly, by the time we did the pilot, well, happily numbers were going down. Sadly, we didn't get there in time to really help the large numbers of patients. By the time we actually deployed, which we did in Mag Barracas Sierra Leone, we put in a final deployment that actually was supported remotely. The Watson actually volunteered to be the maintainer and every time there's a problem called Google they sorted it out over the phone and that actually worked. We developed a really robust update system where you could just put a thing from an email onto a USB stick, plug it into the thing and it would automatically update and propagate to the tablets in the high-risk zone. So, amazing support, but again, complicated to get there. By the time we did it, thankfully the case of those was pretty low. I wish we'd been able to help more people during this epidemic, but we certainly got the opportunity to build something that's going to be really useful if it ever resurges, or if it comes up somewhere else, or for other kinds of pathologies. So, because it's open source, we actually shopped around a little bit to see who can help us with this, who can actually keep this from moldering on a shelf. So, Harvard Medical School very, very flatteringly said to us, what you've done with great big green buttons is going to revolutionize the health information system to industry. That was a quote from Eric Barakselis who has since actually volunteered to sort of lead a steering committee for this. So, there's a large open source steering committee, including ourselves, Google, the people who helped us build it, and the people who want to use it. So, Partners in Health is actually going to do a trial deployment of this since Sierra Leone. And interestingly, a lot of us in the movement are seeing the same other applications. For example, nutrition. Anything where you have a need to collect data, which ODK does very well, to see it right away and longitudinally track the process of a patient over time and in the back end be able to aggregate it, this is a system which can work for that.  So, this is the kind of thing that we're going to start working on over the next few months. I believe that we're about 50% of the way toward being finished here. We've got the application, we've deployed it. Okay, we're halfway there. Now it's time to generalize it. Make sure that users themselves can actually modify it for their new use cases. I don't want to have to call a developer to say, okay, we're going from Ebola to nutrition. An epidemiologist should be able to modify the forms in the back end database and the dashboard. That's still being specced out how we're going to do that. But it's definitely in the plans. And I think my favorite take home is that if we actually engage with the tech community, as products that we buy and deploy, we will fail. If we see tech as a community, as new ways of doing things and new ways of thinking and new ways of approaching solutions, and we work with them together as equal partners and we push and pull with them rather than just ordering things from them, we might not fail. In this case, we didn't. Yeah. We invested a little bit and Google invested a lot. So, unlike the previous project which was a modest investment, this was an enormous investment, but it was pretty much all from our partner who did not charge it for us and charge us for it and our donors didn't have to pony up for it. So, we got an enormous amount of free development and all of that is still in the public domain for everyone. It's all open source, even the hardware designs. If you like the tablet casing and the server casing, download the files and manufacture it yourself.  And this is the kind of thing that I hope we can do more of. We also got a lot of assistance from around the movement. Jesse Burns from OCG actually put an enormous amount of work in ensuring that we were compliant with the standard Ebola dictionaries so that the data that we're collecting, even though it's in a very simple database, it's in the right format to interoperate with other people's stuff. So, we made some extra efforts for this to be extensible and to really work with other people's formats. And now we have it. So, questions, questions. Right at the back there, gentlemen in the black T-shirt, please stand up and introduce yourself. Hi, I'm Anas X MSF FLOG. I know who you are. Hello. Quick question. I know you wanted to keep things simple so that clinicians can use it. But in the data that you collected, was there anything that can be imported by the epidemiologists for a line list for contact tracing, etc. And if not, is that in the current plans for the future? Yes. You can actually access the tablets collected data. It syncs to the server. The server then syncs to all the other tablets and you can access it from a laptop. There's also a dedicated CSV export function which we consulted with the epidemiologists in the Madison unit, Jane Gregg who gave us the appropriate format to be able to be ingested by the EPI tools. We haven't fully implemented that but certainly it's built into the architecture from the very beginning that it should be exportable into standard data tools. Thanks very much. Questions? On the right-hand side. Please stand up. Introduce yourself. Anik Lenglet, OCA epidemiologist. Thanks Ivan. It's been great to see this because I haven't actually ever seen it. I have one here. I had a question. I think OCA missions in Sierra Leone are lucky in that there were a lot of epidemiologists on the ground. But if we translate this from Ebola to other settings and other projects most missions are not so fortunate to have that supply. You said that the Watson volunteered to take over the maintenance. I wonder how we should start thinking about project teams if we're going to start using this technology more frequently. I don't think we can rely on epidemiologists. I'm not smart enough definitely not to do this sort of stuff. So how do you see this being implemented in the field in a very practical way and mostly human resource-wise. It's not only for your presentation but for a lot of the things that were presented today. It's relying on a single person and a single motivation to get this stuff working. I think I still struggle to see how that can be scaled up. Good question. I agree it's usually problematic and it's usually problematic for a lot of the stuff that I work on. First of all I'm going to have to disagree with you on your own intelligence. I think that epis are all really brilliant and furthermore I feel that we should be systematically having a lot more epis in missions. When I was ahead of mission I always wanted to have a couple of epis around because boy it sure helps to understand what's going on in your context around you. That said like a good partner for us is because they have several billion users and no help desk. There literally is no one you can call to get help on their product so they must find ways to develop products that can be worked out by somebody out there in the world. We don't feel that we completely got there with this project but we think it's a good start in the sense that we put a lot of design work. Many of the people working with us weren't coders or programmers. They were artists and designers who actually sketched this thing out on charcoal paper so the attempt here is very much to create something that is usable by an epi, a medical team leader and maintainable. The sort of maintenance side by a Watson but the sort of medical data side it should be able to be managed by anyone who's able to manage the monthly medical report which is not necessarily a low bar but that's the intention. I think we're close. Please introduce yourself. My name is Mike. I work for Accenture in the Innovation Hub. Thanks. That was really interesting. Link back to what Kenneth talked about this morning and using big data. Have you thought about how we can use this data now that we're collecting and being able to collate more easily to help in future projects? One of the motivations for this was speaking with Armin Sprecher at OCB who's one of the important Ebola experts who said having had all of these patients far more than the total number of Ebola patients ever treated in the world prior to this outbreak we still know distressingly little about the disease itself. We're not collecting the data that could tell us all of the things we'd like to know. For example, at the time he says we don't even know if hiccups are a bad sign. They're a classic Ebola sign. We don't even know it's good or bad. We think it's bad. We do have a bit more information now. But the point is if we're not collecting that kind of information to troll with big data techniques, I'm not sure that big data techniques are that easily applicable to these kinds of data sets. But if we don't collect it, we'll never find out and then will we. So my hope is that one of the knock-on benefits, as I said, what I really want to do is provide better tools for clinicians to do their job on a day-to-day basis and save them time. But if at the same time that generates a better aggregate data set I hope that will be a knock-on benefit of adopting this kind of technology. Certainly when I was in the field, every project I was in I demanded that they put in place a digitization team. I wanted the registries from every clinic in Excel every day. For me it feels like you're flying blind if you're trying to make operational decisions without having the data in an accessible format and able to be queried. I have one last question. Please introduce yourself. Hello, good afternoon. So Clotille Rambeau from OCG. Hello. I'm very impressed by your work so thank you very much for this presentation. If I understood well what you did is somehow put in place a patient file an electronic patient file and I see what you did with the data management. One remaining question for me is did you add some decision support system, clinical decision like aid for clinicians to take better decision for the management of the patient? No, but I know there's somebody else in the audience who actually has a clinical decision making algorithm which is at least in the early version was based on some of the same technology so somebody perhaps you, Clotille, has actually built some stuff one of the reasons we chose OpenDataKit is we knew after having seen what you did and she built a system that you run through and actually guides a clinician to make better decisions and she'll tell you about that one of these days I was aware of that because of the innovation fair thank you, Maya and so that was one of the reasons why we chose ODK, knowing that it has the capacity to also add that kind of guidance and algorithm based medicine which has a lot of promise so that's certainly in the works that we can incorporate those kinds of things but stay open source as we said. Yes, I got it. Thank you very much.


For the safety of your smile use pepsidon twice a day see your dentist twice a year Leaver brothers company presents the pepsidon show my friend Irma created by Cy Howard and Starring Marie Wilson as Irma with Joan Banks as Jane Friendship friendship, just a perfect plan ship when other friendships have been forgot There's will still be hot Stacey and I live with Irma Peterson and believe me. It's a problem.  I told her that fish was brain food So for three weeks she's been on a diet of fish fish fish and you know what the result is? She now has the IQ of a sardine But don't get me wrong. I really love her It's just that there are times when well for instance the other day. I sent her to the store for a pound of drift coffee She brought it back in a hot water bottle Well as they say patience is a virtue Peterson and believe me living with Jane Stacy is quite a problem There are things you just can't understand no matter how hard I try to educate her Now for instance the other day she sent me out for a pound of drift coffee And she was so surprised when I brought it back in a hot water bottle She doesn't stop to think that if I carried it in a paper bag it would all leak out before I could get home As they say patience is a virus Different points of view but right now we have a problem in common What is it a complete shortage of that exquisite commodity known as men? Irma cleaned house first She gave Al the air for a new boyfriend, but the new boyfriend is afraid of Al So now neither of them comes around I On the other hand have just quarreled with my guy Richard Rhinelander So here the two of us sit without boyfriends like two old maids Irma what honey don't sit there like the world has come to an end just because you have no boyfriend But you know girls supposed to have a fellow. That's why girls put perfume on themselves The track man that's known as animal instinct What's the difference I'm too miserable to speak Irma your thinking is all wrong Many women have lived rich full lives without men famous women name one. Well, there was a No, she liked children too much. Let me see. Oh I know Florence nightingale. That's different. She had her singing to keep her busy And she's just one no no there are many what about the Joan of Arc. She's in the movies I'm talking about plain working girls girls like me who get lonely at night But we don't have to kill ourselves just because we haven't any men. Oh, Jane. You're such a child Love is the only thing that counts Believe me Irma men aren't the only things in the world a girl can have other interests what for instance Well, there's a there's a there must be something I Certainly we can take up a hobby hobby. Yes, many women take up hobbies Well, do you think you could find one for me? Well sure sure honey. Do you have any idea what you want?  And who always embarrassed you wherever you went? You see what I mean? He gave you two years of misery. Yes, that's right Why are you crying?  What do you mean Jane? Well, we'll we'll just busy ourselves with other things We'll forget all about men for a while not even mention men Right Irma Then it's an agreement, right? Let's shake on it man to man No, Irma. We don't even mention the word from now on our lives are centered around our hobbies It's only me professor Kropotkin Janey and Irma my two little busy bees one with her mind on her work and the other with a mind that doesn't work Why professor excuse me a little joke I got stung with Professor you're just the man we want to see Irma and I want to take up a hobby Yes, you have so many you play the violin the Spanish castanets and castanets. I don't play castanets But I've heard you many times. Oh Irma darling that isn't castanets.  Oh, no, you've never seen it Why don't you come upstairs right now and see for yourself? Okay, let's go And since we're looking for a hobby we might as well make something useful so like well Maybe Irma and I can knit you a bedspread impossible girls. My bed couldn't stand the extra weight Well here we are girls. This is my room We go in Everybody take two giant steps. Oh, that's child's game. Yes, it's a child's game But if you want to live to be an old lady a better do it There's a hole in the floor Professor I can see your touches here in there. That's a nice painting you have on the wall. That is no painting That's the lady next door Mrs. Horowitz you mind if I draw the curtains. I got company. Thank you Well girls, how do you like it Jenny? Would you mind standing sideways so Irma can come in and look? Come in. I'm It's dark in here. Do you mind if I raise this shade? Stop Irma. Don't pull that. That's the wallpaper Excuse me girls. What kind of a host am I? Let me get you. Oh, no, no, no, thanks I just like a little cold water. Well, that's easy. Open your mouth and pull the cork out of that pipe No, the small cork the big one is for the shower I've never seen a room like this What period is it early English? I think Jenny, are you familiar with the period of the English and the French colonial wars? Yes. Well, this is where they fought So thanks for volunteering girls, but unless your hobby happens to be blasting there is nothing can be done for my wrong We want to help you professor Bless you my darlings But be smart if you girls want a hobby go down to the hobby shop and they will give you a wonderful one Say that's a good idea. Come on Irma More to walk with us professor. No, thank you. Mrs. O'Reilly is coming up and we both have a hobby Oh, what is it? She likes to tell me how young she is and I like to sit and count her chins To the hobby shop and on Thursday night. I sat home and embroidered while Irma busied herself with her hobby stuffing bird skins Around nine o'clock. She said Jane. I think this hobby is too hard for me I think I'm putting too much cotton in this bird skin. I wouldn't say that why it looks exactly like an eagle Do you really think so? Uh-huh, then I'm in trouble. It's supposed to be a sparrow We decided to look for a different hobby But a letter in the mailbox almost broke Irma's determination to forget about men It was from Al that live wire with a loose connection And it read dear chicken roses are red violets are blue Like the elbows in my sleeves. Don't tell me we're through I Write this poetry to you only because my heart is broken and I want you to know that without you I am alone and cold like a dancer without her fan. I Am so desperate. I can't even pick up the phone and say hello Joe So you see chicken. I appeal to you. Don't be so headstrong soft enough think it over Remember we always wanted to have children and if we ain't speaking to each other it will have a very bad psychological effect By the phone to hear what you have to say so watch your language. It's a party line Love when we decided to take up knitting Irma, are you happy could take the place of fellows? Oh, yes. Yes, it's it's a peachy keen Jane I Haven't much will power. How can I make sure I won't weaken? Well, it's easy, honey Whenever you fit your wavering you just say to yourself I am master of my mind and fate for only the weak give in to their desires Oh, that's easy. Let me hear you say it. Um, I need to master my desire because fate gave me a weak mind Just Dismissed the thought of fellows. Oh, I already have I never think of men Do you Jane silly dude way so much time with them? We could have been knitting Yeah, but they're all Irma. Are you sure? Certainly then why are you knitting men socks and socks they can be for a woman with short legs Okay, Jane Jane you don't want to break the agreement about no more fellows. No, no, I I've never been so happy Men aren't really necessary. I Just love to knit one pearl one knit one pearl one Very a trip me Jane Bessie, what is it Jane?  Are you interested? Oh But there are complications if if you meet me at the beauty parlor in five minutes We can discuss aforementioned M-a-s-c-u-l-i-n-e goodbye M-a-s-c-u-l-i-n-e you're wasting your time Mussolini is dead We're just holding services See you later. Goodbye That one I do in sitting there and looking so gloomy. Oh not to have anything to do with the opposite sex Well, I'm glad to hear it. So many men have said that to me. This telegram came for you Well, let me see. I'd like to see you your old classmate from Minnesota. You have such a wonderful dancer I'd love to see him tomorrow night, but I don't know what about your agreement with Jane. I can't help it I'm star for the company of a man. I'm tired of knitting wool is all right But what good is it if you don't have a man around to pull it over your eyes? To find some way to get Bert up here without letting Jane know it but Jane'll know it's a man After all you'll have to introduce him and say this is Bert Necessarily I may put a ribbon in his hair and say Jane. This is Bertha Gosh, I hope he doesn't have a mustache Run the tip of your tongue over your teeth If you feel a slippery coating you have film on your teeth and you need pepsidon with eryum to remove it For film is worse than you think film collect stains that make your teeth look dull Pepsidon toothpaste removes film makes your teeth look bright film harbors germs that cause unpleasing breath Pepsidon removes film makes your breath fresh and clean film glues acid to your teeth the very acid many dentists agree Is the cause of tooth decay pepsidon toothpaste removes film and the acids it contains film never lets up It forms continually on your teeth. Yes, you have to fight film every day So brush your teeth twice a day with pepsidon toothpaste Because no other toothpaste can duplicate pepsidon's film removing formula No other toothpaste contains eryum or pepsidon's gentle polishing agent. So start now to fight film Brush your teeth twice a day with pepsidon's the toothpaste with an exclusive formula for removing film Beauty parlor feeling miserable. Why? Because I let Betty talk me into meeting Gordon McClain Gee, I I double-crossed Irma, and I feel like a Benedict Arnold. I'm so nervous. I can't even sit still for a manicure Jane if you don't keep your hands still I won't be able to finish your manicure. Oh I've got myself in a fine mess Irma, and I agreed to substitute hobbies for men and I have a fellow calling on me tonight You're in a spot chain, but believe me hobbies is nothing compared to fellas. I Used to collect pictures of baseball players, but just to have one to bat you around is better than all the pictures in the world I Tell me how you're gonna fool Irma. Oh, well, I've already taken care of that You see when mr. McClain comes over this evening I'm going to introduce him as my hobby instructor, and we'll talk about the rocks or something But ain't you afraid that Irma will get wise? Oh, no not Irma. She's so naive And I wouldn't want her to lose faith in me. So please Hilda don't mention this to anyone Look Jane. I take a note. I should drop dead Or remain an old maid I'll give you a choice Jane believe me as sure as my name's Hilda Mason. I won't be the word of it to anybody. Goodbye She was all the poor thing. Oh Hilda. I feel so guilty. Would you please give me a mud pack? I can't look myself in the face That we were that we were through with fellas you see and we were gonna take up hobbies, but who do you think's in town who? Bird hair is my school day sweetheart He wants me to he wants to come up tonight and see me Well, what are you worried about dear? I don't want to hurt Jane's feelings. She she has such faith in me, and I Don't know how to explain Well, why don't you just introduce bird as your hobby instructor? Do you think it'll work? Well, I understand it's being done a great deal these days It does sound original That's what I'm going to do. I'll tell Jane. I'm going to take up painting and that bird is a personal friend of Rembrandt Again, Janie. You sent for me. Yes, professor. I thought perhaps you might be able to help me out I need some stones and rocks Stones and rocks Janie darling, you don't have to become violent When mrs. O'Reilly comes for the rent just tell her you haven't got it Professor be serious. I need some stones in connection with my new hobby Janie, I'll be glad to help you. I'll go get the rocks. Where will you find them? I'm sure there must be a couple in my mattress Where's that book of knowledge? Oh, um Rocks are a solid formation of inorganic matter And are to be found it.   Oh Thank you Not dressed up for our hobbies Yes, it it is funny Most of us would be breaking our necks to get a date. Yes Yes, that that's true All right, you glad we're not. Yes Irma the way Irma did um, did you hear that I gave up knitting? You did? Yes. Yes. I uh, I have a new hobby Rocks coincidence. Oh, well, that's wonderful Irma and say I have a great idea since you're interested in painting Why don't you go over to central park and study the view you don't have to come home until? Oh, we'll after midnight Thinking since you're interested in rocks. Why don't you go out now and find some? Um, no Irma. No, I um, I want to stay in tonight Rubble and spades By the way, Irma, you have no idea how intensely interested I am in my new hobby and just for uh, um scientific purposes.  Uh, yes, I'm having a Man over who knows all about painting. I think he's going to bring his brush and weasel Jane this uh, this doesn't in any way break our agreement. Does it why of course not? Uh, Jane, uh Is my lipstick on straight I'm not that I think of bird as a man, but you know artists are interested in paint. Oh, yes, I understand here Is uh, is my dress on straight not that I think of gordon as a man But it's just that in his line of work. They're interested in uh formations I will come in. Uh, this is my roommate Irma Peterson. Irma, this is my instructor. Mr. McClain How do you do? Oh, pleased to meet you. I'm sorry. I didn't know you were coming. I would have bought some rock candy I beg your pardon Uh, well, uh, Irma knows all about your hobby. Uh, my hobby. Yes rocks Rocks Rocks. Oh, oh, I want to be sure rocks. Yes. Yes. Yes, indeed Rocks, yes My instructor mr. Harris Come in Well, here I am I couldn't bring a canoe and you said on the phone and I was to pretend I was your hobby instructor But you were supposed to say your hobby was painting Painting We must have had a bad connection. I thought you said punting You know the truth and I I didn't want to hurt you. I didn't mean to break our pack, but I was so lonesome for a man. I was willing to take anything Thanks, Irma.  Well, of course not, honey. I'm just as guilty as you are. Gordon here isn't my hobby instructor, are you? Me? Well, the only rocks I ever had were in rock and rye And here I was so worried now we all know we're fellows and girls and we don't have to be ashamed of it Right, Jane? Right, honey. There's no hobby that'll take the place of boy meets girl. Well, come on. Let's roll up the rugs and dance Now you're talking. Gee. I wish I had my sx-42 here. We could get that hot band in hallelujah Are you a short wave ham? Certainly. I'm sqr 420 420. I'm 426. No kidding. No kidding. Fellas, help me with this rug. Wait a minute. Gordon, I notice you're coming strong. You you got a power booster I got a booster. It's over at the hotel. That's my hobby. Well, it's mine too. Gee. I'd love to see your outfit best rig in the world Come on. Let's go wait. Wait fellas wait fellas fellas Pearl one Drop one you are safe from film nearly everyone has it Just run the tip of your tongue over your teeth If you feel a slippery coating, that's film and you'd better get pepsidon toothpaste to remove it For film collect stains that make teeth look dull It harbors germs that cause unpleasing breath Film glues acid to your teeth the very acid that many dentists agree is the cause of tooth decay And remember film never stops forming. No, it never lets up So brush your teeth twice a day with film removing pepsidon No other toothpaste contains irium or pepsidon's gentle polishing agent No other toothpaste can duplicate pepsidon's film removing formula Get pepsidon toothpaste with irium today Friend Irma is produced and directed by sci-howard and stars Marie Wilson as Irma with Joan Banks as Jane Mark Levy writes the script with Stanley Adams and Roland McClain And it is brought to you by pepsidon toothpaste with irium another fine product of leverbrothers company The part of Al was played by John Brown Hans Kahn read his professor for potkin. Gloria Gordon was heard as Mrs. O'Reilly Music was under the direction of blood glaskin This is Wendell Nile speaking BRISK brisk flavor, that's what you get in Lipton tea Yes brisk flavor that picks you up brings you back alive in a hurry Brisk flavor that comes from Lipton's very special blending of the finest orange pico and pico teas Try it You will find that this brisk flavor of Lipton's leaves you refreshed and ready to go again And you can enjoy it often because even wonderful tea like Lipton's costs less than any drink except water Always ask for Lipton tea the brisk tea with that heartwarming Lipton lift Tune in one hour earlier next week and listen to the lux radio theater followed by the pepsidon show by friend Irma This is CBS Columbia broadcasting system


I don't know if I'll call it part one but it's a tour of what's on my desk and I'm not calling it part one because maybe I'll never do another but I have a baseball on my desk. Why? Do I have a baseball on my desk? Deep Space Nine and also I just like baseball and I have a lot of baseball sitting around so I thought you know what I'll be like Cisco and I'll keep a baseball on my desk. There you go.


Welcome to Beyond the Lines. I'm Rusty Komori. We broadcast live on Mondays from the Think Tech Hawaii TV studio in the Pioneer Plaza in downtown Honolulu. This TV show is based on my book also titled Beyond the Lines, which is about leadership, achieving and sustaining success, and finding greatness. His guest is Emma Woh. She was crowned Miss Hawaii Teen USA in 2008, and Miss Hawaii USA in 2015, and she is a very successful entrepreneur. Today, we are going beyond pageants. Emma, thank you for joining me today. Thank you so much for having me. How's everything been? Very well. Yeah? I want to know about your youth when you were growing up on Oahu. Can you tell me about it? Absolutely. So I was born and raised here on Oahu. I had a really kind of normal, I guess, childhood, but I was in tons of activities. So everything from AYSO to Girl Scouts and selling those cookies, and I competed in volleyball growing up as well, and piano, and voice lessons, and I was kind of in everything. So yeah, I had a great upbringing here in Hawaii and loved every minute of it. Fantastic. Now, when I was growing up in my room, I had a Snoopy tennis poster, and the thought above Snoopy was it doesn't matter if you win or lose until you lose. So I know I'm a very competitive person. Are you a very competitive person? I am a pretty competitive person. I think in volleyball that kind of brought that competitive spirit out of me. And you know, I wasn't quite good enough at volleyball to play in college, but then I found pageants, and that kind of brought that competitive spirit out of me as well. So I was able to compete in that too. Great. Now, I know that you went to Scripps College in California. Why did you choose Scripps? Well, aside from it being a really wonderful school to go to, it's a great All Women's Liberal Arts College in Claremont, California, but I kind of didn't want to go to Scripps because both of my older sisters had gone there, and I was like, I'm going to carve my own path. I don't want to go to the same school that they went to. But then I would visit them on trips, you know, spring break or fall break or whatever it was. And it was such a beautiful campus. The classes were exactly what I knew I wanted to do. I majored in media studies, which has a lot to do with where I am today. So I think it was a great fit, even though initially I had a little bit of skepticism. Now, did you do any graduate schooling or did you get your master's degree? I did. So I actually just moved back to Hawaii in October about of last year. And prior to that, I was living in New York City, getting my master's degree in marketing from New York University. So that was a wonderful experience and so cool to live in New York City, the fashion capital of the world as well. Now, your parents, Buzz and Kitty, are great, amazing people and incredibly successful. What are some important things you learned from them? I mean, we only have 30 minutes, so I don't know if I can go into everything, but I guess one thing would be there's just no substitute for hard work. I think that they always taught me, you know, pursue your education was the most important thing. So yes, even though I played sports and yes, I did all these other things, I always came first. So whether it was undergraduate studies and they really encouraged me to go get my master's degree, which I'm super grateful for, you know, hard work is key. Now you're the youngest of three sisters. Yes. Tell me about the special bond that you have with your sisters. Yeah, well, I'm so grateful to have two sisters, especially two older sisters because they could kind of, they did everything before me and I could learn from not only their successes, but also their mistakes, small mistakes. But, you know, I could learn from them and they've been kind of these two built-in role models in my life and they're so different. We're all so different, which is the funny part, but kind of learn from them as I went. So it's great. Now you're the granddaughter of the legendary Maurice Sullivan, who is the founder of Foodlands. Can you share with me about how he was as a person and his legacy? Yeah. Well, I think that so many people knew my grandfather for his entrepreneurial endeavors, but I just knew him as my grandpa and he actually passed away when I was eight years old. So I didn't get to know him into my adulthood, but what I knew of him was he was just such a kind person and he really followed this, you know, do unto others as you would want unto yourself kind of mentality. So he was so giving and he was such so involved in different charities and the Rotary Club and the Hawaii Rotary Youth Foundation and so many things that I try to kind of still stay involved in today just to kind of keep a piece of him in my life and of course Foodland is still alive and well and doing really well today. So it makes me really proud to not only be his granddaughter, but it encourages me to be successful because I know that so many people in my family have had these great careers and great businesses. So it sets a high standard for me for sure. Oh, definitely. Now, Foodland has been around for over 70 years now. Yes. Why do you think Foodland is so successful to today? I think maybe two things. One is that we are a family company and still family owned today. So I think that people in Hawaii want to support local and they want to shop local. And if you want to shop local in Hawaii, you know, at a supermarket Foodland is the place to do that. So we definitely have so much community support. And then secondly, I just think that the company has evolved with the times we just opened a store a couple of years ago. Foodland Farms at Alamwana. I love it there. I love it there too. They have great pre-made food and everything like that. But yeah, I just think that adapting to the times and listening to what people want has helped the company really grow. Awesome. Yeah. Let's shift to pageants now. You won the Miss Hawaii Teen USA in 2008. Yes. Why did you enter that pageant? My mom and I have conflicting stories on why I entered the pageant. I mean, it was so long ago now I almost can't remember. It was like 11 years ago. So I think I just wanted something new and I wanted something different and I wanted to flex my muscle a little bit in the pageant space. And I had no idea what I was doing. I mean, really, I had no idea what I was getting myself into. I didn't know any of the girls competing. I didn't even know all the phases of competition, but it was a kind of fun thing for my mom and I to prep together on. And then the personal transformation that I went through, preparing for Miss Hawaii USA and then preparing for Miss Teen USA was like addicting. I mean, it was so cool to be so empowered, especially as a young woman who was just finding her way in this world to develop those confident skills and interview skills and things like that. It was addicting. And I think it's why I decided later on to run in the Miss Hawaii USA pageant as well. So what what kind of insecurities did you have and what did you end up learning about yourself through that teen pageant? Yeah, I learned so much. Not only those public speaking skills, I mean, now I can walk into a room and I'm not scared to do public speaking and I'm not scared to do a job interview or something like that. One of that I was previously so terrified of. I mean, growing up, I was pretty shy and pretty introverted, I would say. So those skills are definitely something that I learned through competing in that Miss Hawaii Teen USA pageant. And then also, you know, the friendships that I gained through the pageant. It sounds so cliche.  And those are just invaluable to me still today. You OK, so you had a goal of wanting to be Miss Hawaii USA. Right. What what? Tell me some insight into your pursuit of this goal. Yeah, so I wanted to be Miss Hawaii USA because I think that that feeling of personal transformation that I experienced when I was trying to be Miss Hawaii Teen USA. Again, it was so addicting and I wanted that feeling again. And not only that, but I wanted to meet new people. I wanted I had just moved back to Hawaii from completing my undergraduate degree. So it was a nice, you know, kind of reentry into the Hawaii community. But actually the first time I ran a Miss Hawaii USA in 2013, I did not win that pageant and I came in second runner up, which is actually another gift, I think. To to not win something that you work so hard for is really an important lesson to learn. And I actually went back and realized, oh, you know, there were X, X and X that I could have done differently. And then I went back and did it. And I think that when I finally won, it made it that much sweeter. Resiliency is a great thing for everyone to have. Absolutely. As Miss Hawaii USA, what kind of platform did you have and how did you help people? Yeah, so in Miss Hawaii USA, you don't need a official platform that you run on. But there are so many things that I had the opportunity to do once I had won the title and before one of those things was Dress for Success with the YWCA. And because I have this passion for fashion, it really made that cause so relevant to me. So what we did was help to style women who were getting ready for their first job interview after having kids or some time in their life when they needed a little bit of guidance. And that was really fun for me because it mixed fashion with giving back. And that was a great cause for me to champion, I think. And then also working with the Susan G. Komen Foundation and we did a lot of feeding at soup kitchens and things like that. And just the variety of organizations I got to work with was so rewarding. Sounds like those experiences are priceless.  Now, would you encourage other young women to enter pageants? Absolutely. I think without question. Why? I think it's because, again, the personal transformation that you go through. Recently, we were just chatting about Miss America and how they removed the swimsuit competition from their pageant. And I was kind of bummed because I think that getting on stage in a swimsuit is such a terrifying thing that you work really hard to get fit and to get healthy and in shape. And just the pursuit, just the act of being on stage in a swimsuit is overcoming some kind of fear. And that's what pageants are all about is here's this really scary thing and I'm going to prepare and then I'm going to overcome it. And I'm going to do so awesome that it's going to make me feel amazing. So I think the pageants are not always about winning that crown, but about the personal work you need to do to get there. And so when they eliminate certain phases from competition that are so important to personal growth, it makes me a little bit bummed. But the Miss Hawaii USA pageant still has it and the Miss USA pageant still has it. And I think it's important. I had Alicia Michioca as a guest last week and she's, you know, the owner of the Miss Hawaii USA pageant. And it just seems that, you know, for her winning her pageant and then becoming extra, you know, successful since then. And then for you winning these pageants and then becoming more successful after that. I mean, it's kind of like a pattern is going on here. Well, I don't think it's by coincidence. You know, I think the pageants, they teach you all these really real world skills.  Sales. Sales. Yeah. Alicia mentioned about how, you know, girls have to sell tickets and things for the show as well. Yes. When I, I was big on selling because I thought that it'd be important to have a huge crowd of familiar faces. You were in the crowd when I won. And I still can remember hearing you cheer me on. I think I was the loudest, right? I think you were. I think we all decided that you were. And I was proud to be the loudest. And I think I sold the most tickets of any contestant that year. And I really felt it. And it was awesome. And then you also sell ads in the pageant book. So you have to reach out to local businesses and ask them to support you. And all those selling skills, I think, are so important later in life when you have to ask people for a paper.  You're very photogenic. How do you, how do you like the modeling industry?  Because, you know, just celebrated my 10-year high school reunion. You know, I'm getting up there. But it's wonderful. I think that the relationships that I've built through modeling, not just with fellow models, but with brands, with companies, with my agent and everything like that, has been so rewarding. And it's just fun. It's really fun. What type of modeling do you like the best? I mean, there's so many different types of modeling. But what type do you like the best? My favorite is runway, hands down. Because I think that it's so fun. You feel like you're giving a performance. I can't dance. I can't sing. But I can walk. So that part is really fun for me. It feels like I'm performing for a crowd. Awesome. Yeah. Well, we're going to take a quick break, Emma. And then we're going to get into why you're so successful as an entrepreneur. You are watching Beyond the Lines on Think Tech Hawaii with my guest, Emma Wu. We will be back in 60 seconds. Do you want to be cool? Watch my show on Tuesdays at 1 called Out of the Comfort Zone. I sang this song to you because I think you either are cool or have the potential to be seriously cool. And I want you to come watch my show where I bring in experts who talk all about easy strategies to be healthier, happier, build better relationships, and make your life a success. So come sit with the cool kids at Out of the Comfort Zone on Tuesdays at 1. See you there. Hello, I'm Cynthia Lee Sinclair. I have a show called Finding Respect in the Chaos. It's all about women's rights and gender equality.  And a place for advocates to come on and share important resources. So that people can get past the abuse and into the hope and healing that's on the other side. I hope you'll join me every other Friday at 3 o'clock for Finding Respect in the Chaos. I'm Cynthia Lee Sinclair on thinktecawaii.com. Welcome back to Beyond the Lines. I'm Rusty Komori. In case you are just tuning in, my guest today is Emma Wu. And she was crowned Miss Hawaii Teen USA in 2008 and Miss Hawaii USA in 2015 and is a very successful entrepreneur. Emma, thank you so much for being here and sharing all of those things about the pageants, the insights to it. I wanna focus now about your success as an entrepreneur. You have a passion for fashion. I do. And I like saying those words, passion for fashion because of you. And you've worked at Vogue Magazine in New York City. Share with me the experiences that you've had working at Vogue. Well, I actually interned at Vogue Magazine for one summer while I was in college and talk about a dream internship. I mean, I was between my junior and senior year living in New York City as a 21 year old and I don't think it gets better than that. So I was actually interning in the fashion closet. So what we would kind of be doing was we'd be trafficking samples. So things would come in from different designer brands and we would take pictures of them and just retain an inventory. But by doing that, I got to see all these beautiful gowns and pieces and from time to time, they would allow us to come on a photo shoot. So I still remember going on a photo shoot with Carly Kloss who's a major supermodel and just being completely starstruck and awestruck by the experience. So I actually caught a couple glints of Anna Wintour as well. I would kind of take the long way around the office and just see what she was up to. And so it was just a wonderful experience that I will always cherish. What else did you learn from interning at Vogue during that summer?  Yeah, there's just, I mean, like I said, there's no substitute for hard work. You really can't skip any corners in New York City. And there were so many other interns that I interned with as well that I'm still friends with. So I was able to take away some really cool friendships with people that were also passion for fashion. So yeah, it was a wonderful experience and I'm really glad to have had it. And yeah, it was cutthroat for sure. If I didn't do something wrong, they told me. And that was good. Honest feedback. Honest feedback. I'm all about honest feedback. In my book, I talk about honest feedback. I don't give good feedback or bad feedback. I give honest feedback. But it's meaningful because whoever you're talking to, they're going to know that it's real, whatever you're saying. Absolutely. Now since Vogue, after that experience, you also worked at E-News in Los Angeles. How was that experience? Working at E-News is also a great experience. I went to school in Claremont, California. So I would have to do, because it was an hour away from LA, is I would wake up at five in the morning and I would drive in rush hour traffic all the way until anyone who's lived in LA knows that traffic is terrible. So I wanted it that badly. I would drive two hours into the city and then I would work for a full day and then I would drive two hours back to Claremont. And I just wanted to be in that environment. That was kind of around the time where I thought I wanted to be in broad-capital journalism. So I would kind of shadow E-News. And at the time, it was Julianne Oransic and Ryan Seacrest talk about a dynamic duo. And so it was just really cool to get inspired and learn what that environment is all about. And I didn't end up going into traditional fashion role or I didn't end up going into a broadcast journalism role, but anyone who asked me about those internships, I say, do everything. See, finding out what you do like is just as much about finding out what you don't like. And while I did like those experiences, there were certain parts that go, okay, I liked that part of it and maybe I didn't like that part of it. So I did those two internships and I also did seven more. And so it was all about finding out not only what you do like, but what you don't like to do. You really have a lot of experience in, you know, work and hard work. Now, what other internships did you do, just if you can name maybe one or two more that you've done? Yeah, so I not only interned for my family's company, the Sullivan family of companies. I worked at PBS Hawaii, KITV4, MVNP all here in Honolulu.  I think that it's so important to have great mentors and that's a great way to find them is through internships. Well, I know that a lot of young women now who entered the Miss Hawaii USA pageants and the teen pageants, they look up to you as a mentor and as someone that they respect. And I think that's a great thing. Now, you are the owner of thealohababe.com. Yes. What is that? Can you share with the viewers what that is? Absolutely. So thealohababe.com is my personal style blog and I share everything from makeup tips to outfits of the day to what have you, my thoughts on life itself. So it's just kind of a platform that I use to share my life and share my thoughts and it's wonderful. Actually, the reason I started a blog was because my sister, Liza, kind of encouraged me to do it.  And I think that in life, if you don't have the experience for a particular role that you want, you can create it. And so part of creating my blog was in order to get an internship at Vogue. I knew I wanted to work at Vogue Magazine in the fashion capital of the world and I created that experience by journeying my personal style story through my blog. And then when I applied to Vogue, I actually put my blog in my cover letter and I don't know if they viewed it or not, but I would like to think that they saw my real true passion for fashion. Well, you know, how many followers do you have on that blog right now? Do you know how many? I do check my unique visitors from month to month. On Instagram, I have more than 60,000 followers on Facebook. I think I have a couple thousand on Twitter as well. So it's definitely growing. I'm putting a lot of time into it now that I'm back here in Hawaii. And it's so rewarding. I've met so many other fashion bloggers and influencers through it. I'm able to connect with them through direct message or email or these things. And it's a wonderful community to be a part of. I noticed because I looked at your Instagram and it's over 60,000 followers, like you said. That's fascinating. In addition to being the owner of the alohabebe.com, you also recently started your own marketing company. That's correct. What type of marketing do you specialize in? And can you share with me some of those details? Absolutely. So it's called Aloha Social Co. And we specialize in social media. What else? I mean, I've learned so many tips and tricks and strategies growing my own social media accounts that when I moved back to Hawaii, a couple of previous PR clients said, hey, Emma, do you have any capacity to run our social media? And I said, actually I do. And took that opportunity and kind of started from there. So we started with just one client and now we have over 10. So I think that in the last nine months, it's been such an adventure. But I think that anyone can start their own business. You just have to find that one thing that you're super passionate about and that you have the skills for. And it's going great. I'm so happy to be doing what I'm doing every day. In the taxi industry, people were complacent with taxis. And then all of a sudden Uber and Lyft comes along. And it just kind of shakes things up and kind of improves things. Now, a lot of traditional marketing companies, they might be complacent. But you have all this fresh energy, this, you know, just all these experiences that you've had with social media and everything. How do you think potential clients would want to connect with you with your new marketing company? That's a great question. Well, we only specialize in social media. Oh, wow. At least right now. So we're going super niche. I think that a lot of other companies, they do it all. And they are great at so many different things. But we have narrowed down to the one thing that we think we're the best at. So we live, eat, and breathe social media. And I think that because of that, we really drill down to the things that can make a huge impact for brands. So, you know, engagement is huge. So we've developed these strategies that we can really get engagement way through the roof and way above the average. So I think that by focusing on just one thing, it's allowed us to really grow in that space. And also the power of social media is so huge. I previously worked in public relations and sometimes you go through the media in order to get your message out to consumers. Now you can start a social media channel of your own and you can go straight to your consumers with your message and not just once a month but literally every single day. So I think it's such a powerful tool and we've only scratched the surface of what social media can do. I think people are going to buy things on social media. I think that there's so many new avenues that social media is going to take. So we're just keeping an eye on it. You're an expert in social media. How has social media helped you? Social media has helped me greatly. I mean, social media is a way that you can tell people about your personal brand. Whether or not you have social media or not, you have a personal brand. So why not take the reins of that and tell people exactly what you're all about? So I think it's allowed me to tell my own story, speak in my own voice. People don't have to wonder what I'm doing because they can just check and I'll tell them. So it's a way for you to kind of champion your own personal brand and tell your story. I wanna ask you one more question, Emma. What is your biggest accomplishment so far? That's a great question. You have so many. I have a couple of things I'm really proud of, not only my pageant titles, but starting my own business being the most recent thing I'm excited about and my degrees from Scripps College and NYU. But I think the thing I'm the most proud of actually is my personal transformation. I know not everybody knew me as an awkward 15-year-old girl, but for me, my transformation from adolescence all the way into adulthood, now owning my own company and being a little bit fearless too, that fearlessness that pageantry gave me, I think that's what I'm most proud of is the transformation that I've overcome and that I can see. Yeah, that's amazing. It's incredible to see the growth, your growth tremendously through the years. It's really amazing. And you've accomplished a lot of great things and I believe you're just scratching the surface of many more great things that's along the way. But I really wanna thank you for being with me today on set. It was awesome. Do you have any final words? I don't, I just thank you too. Thank you as well for having me on. It was such a pleasure and I'm so excited to be here. Great, thank you, Emma. Thank you, Rusty. And thank you for watching Beyond the Lines on Think Tech Hawaii. I'm Rusty Kamori, reminding you to find your greatness and help others find theirs. Until next Monday, aloha.