So, I just wanted to say, first off, thank you very much for having us. These two reports actually would not are very much the progeny of some Irish kinfolk, at Lisa Rine, who's not here but was formerly the IEA, so she really kicked the ball off on the multiple benefits report. Lorcan here as well, who was very big in producing the energy efficiency marker report which we'll get into later. Emer Danehee as well, who provided a lot of the background analysis so that, in a way, that's one of the reasons why we're here is just to say thanks and to, you know, promote this type of work here in Ireland and it's, you've been a big help in the work that we've been doing so far. So, basically the energy efficiency unit at the IEA has really taken a step forward within the organization. The outgoing executive director, Maria van der Hoven, has really prioritized energy efficiency. She's really recognized the role that it has. You know, the IEA tends sometimes have to have an image of being, you know, this stuffy organization that looks at oil and coal and that kind of thing, but actually we're very much committed to sustainability and climate change and energy efficiency places extremely prominently there and she's been a big advocate. So, the energy efficiency unit of which we're a part of has really stepped up and what we've really noticed is that energy efficiency, I mean, we're talking with people such as yourself, which I imagine are already the, you're already the choir, we're preaching to the choir here in a way, but what the goal of a lot of these reports is, is to really bridge that gap between the departments of energy and that kind of thing to the department of finance to other policymakers trying to make energy efficiency more relevant to them. So, that's, sorry, where the multiple benefits comes in. So, this is our flower, it's the famous flower, I don't know if you've seen it before, but basically the multiple benefits of energy efficiency has four objectives. We want to raise awareness for energy efficiency. We want to increase the analytical substance that's going on in energy efficiency. It's incredibly broad and there's a lot of different ways you can attack it as this flower demonstrates. We want to identify further methodological tools for you and then, you know, we want to build capacity and increase kind of the scholarship, the canon around energy efficiency takes place within an eye to making policy makers, to making policy easier for you, for you to go to policy makers and say, hey, energy efficiency isn't some foofy, hippie idea. These are really important and these are measurable benefits. Keyword here is measurable. We're not just picking things out of the air. The multiple benefits report really tries to collate the existing research and we've done research of our own to describe what the quantifiable benefits are of energy efficiency. So, of that 18, you know, there's a lot of overlap in that kind of thing. But of the 18, we've decided to tackle five. Each one of these is a huge piece of work in and of itself. But of the five we looked at, you know, there were public budgets, energy delivery, the macro-economic impacts. Oh, there's Lisa. Hi. Yeah. I was just talking about the health and industrial productivity. So we'll just get a little bit into each one. It's all in the report and, you know, we're feeling generous and so if you send us an email, we can definitely get the hook you up with one of the reports at a later date. So there we go. So energy delivery, energy system operators, what energy efficiency does is it provides valuable overhead, valuable overhead, basically, to energy system operators. This is an area of research and interest that we're pursuing right now, the role of energy efficiency within the utility business model and how we can prioritize. Utilities are non-trivial investors in energy efficiency for the most part, and how can we actually monetize these benefits. So as you see here, I mean, there's really a litany of benefits, much more than the cost of new generation for energy efficiency. The question is really, how do we create a business model and regulatory framework to have that happen? And that's so my point here being is that we are definitely interested in this and where this is an area for inquiry in the market report 2015, which I'll get in near the end. But first benefit, extremely valuable to an energy system, energy system operators. The next one is industrial productivity. You know, this is basically a case study analysis and analysis of different research efforts that have looked into industries that have invested more in industrial productivity. One of the best pieces of analysis that's actually not in the chapter, but that came out shortly thereafter was in Australia where they looked at kind of the top five, a quartile investment in energy savings among the industry. And those in the top quartile were on average 22% more profitable. Those in the top quartile of energy efficiency investments were 22% more profitable than the mean in that industry. So industrial productivity, I mean, basically each dollar invested in energy savings in industry, we estimate creates $2.5 of value from productivity improvements in industry. So it's a potentially huge source of competitiveness improving and, you know, business security and resilience improving of major industries which, you know, each country has somewhat of a general policy focus on, especially in the OECD countries. Health care, the health benefits of energy efficiency really are what has stolen the show. And there's reason for that. I mean, there's real epidemiological research that can quantify health benefits to a very tight resolution, to a very specific resolution. And what we found is that there hasn't been a number of research efforts looking at what energy efficiency is saving in health, but there's a couple key examples, especially in New Zealand, where that 99% of the benefits of the Warm Up New Zealand program, 99% of the net benefits were from health improvements. Savings and health costs actually to the health system. This is one of the things we like to really focus on is how multiple benefits helps cross-pollinate between departments, government departments especially, and how multiple benefits allows energy efficiency policymakers to come to the cabinet table and to present energy efficiency in a more holistic, multi-department kind of way. When we're engaging on health programs, how can energy efficiency factor into that? When we're looking at industrial programs, industrial policy, how energy efficiency places, these are all ways that energy departments themselves can have a greater role, that we believe that they can have a greater role around the government cabinet table and on the government agenda. There's a lot on the slide, but basically energy efficiency improves public budgets. One of the most direct, you know, government spending in and of itself, improving their own buildings is a very useful lever, a very direct action that governments can take. And what we found is that, you know, energy efficiency for every dollar invested, you get another $2 back in energy savings. So they'd more than pay for themselves from the government side of the ledger. You know, this is trying to ring true for people in finance and treasury departments, that kind of thing, saying, you know, this is real, this will improve our balance sheet, this will improve our financial statements. I won't get deeply into all this, but, you know, if you want the report, evaluate this at length.  But the basic idea is that, you know, energy efficiency is essentially one of the main tenets of capitalism, in a way. You know, it's doing more with less, it's becoming more productive, needing less energy inputs. Energy is basically a foundational piece of economic and human activity. You don't do anything without energy inputs. So the more that you do with the less energy that you consume, essentially the more productive you're becoming. There's a huge range of different estimates on how much extra-economic productivity you're getting from energy efficiency. But, you know, one product study that we looked at says that for every dollar invested to reduce primary energy demand in the country, you were getting anywhere from 0.9 to 3.5 dollars in more, value-added, more output of your economy. So there's a real key message here in that the more efficient you become, basically the wealthier that more wealth you're able to generate. So, just to summarize the multiple benefits, I mean, this isn't just on energy savings. There's a whole wealth of it. One of the examples I like to bring up is actually from Native Canada is Manitoba Hydro built what they brag as one of the most energy efficient commercial building in the world.  Not great, okay? They said, but we think that there's a lot of multiple benefits to be had. And actually prior to building a new building they had consciously tracked sick days from mis-employees, average employee productivity, they found that actually once we incorporate all these new benefits into this highly efficient building, the payback period produced itself down to about 10 years, from 35 to 10 years. And these are real. This is not, employee outlays, these kind of, you know, these liabilities are real on Manitoba Hydro's balance sheet. And that's how they did it. So it's not even really about energy savings. It's about all the other benefits that it's providing. And, you know, this is just a cursory scan of what it is that we've looked at in this report. So what is our recommendations on multiple benefits? Well, basically we can start using this type of policy lens when making energy efficiency policy. We need to basically be innovative. There is no set framework. There's no gospel on how to do multiple benefits. But that means that we owe it to ourselves to kind of be innovative and incorporate these benefits and how or which way that we're both selling and developing policy. And that basically more work needs to happen to start gravitating into uniform definitions on how to evaluate the benefits in other cells. So that's where the IEA is going on our multiple benefit work. We want to basically spread this out, have other organizations in different countries try this. We feel like we've kind of stuck our neck out on this in a way. And we want other people to then feedback to us what the best ways to do it are. And we're very interested in convening and holding sessions to get more uniformity or get more agreement on what the best way forward is on multiple benefits. So that's multiple benefits. I mean, that's actually, I wasn't directly involved in that. This is kind of what my early work is, which is the energy efficiency market report. Again, the energy efficiency market report is another effort to put bullets in the chamber for policy analysts to go to policy makers, decision makers, and say, hey, this is real. Let's start doing some real innovative policy here. So this was the very first energy efficiency market report as of 2013. I'm not responsible for that cover. And here's, look at that. There's the 2014 market report, which is what Lorcan and I primarily worked on and which I managed. So the first question is, why do we evaluate a market for energy efficiency? Well, because we have market reports for all of these fuels. And I guess where I'm going is is that we also believe at the IA that energy efficiency should be considered a fuel. And the more base aspect we were talking just over coffee before this is trying to make energy efficiency sexy. Well, you know, I don't know if talking about it with the room full of policy analysts will ever make it sexy. But the way that people talk about gas and pipelines and macho and billions of dollars and infrastructure, you know, what we want to say is actually energy efficiency has that same type of market framework. It's diffuse and disaggregated, but there's still same volumes of capital, of cash, of money, of research and development going into energy efficiency, just as there is on shale gas production and pipelines and all the renewable energy, all of that. Energy efficiency is right there with them, as we will show you. So, that chart didn't work out. Okay, well, it's kind of a note so you don't hear. What this shows is this is a graph from the WIO 2012 World Energy Outlook. And this is how the United States was going to become fossil fuel independent by 2035. And this is a big headline in the WIO 2012, fossil fuel independence. Wow, my God. This is all about tide oil. This is all about shale gas. This is all about these bright guys, these capitalists and roughnecks and all of that, you know, doing that. And so, oh no. Okay, so that is that, that new supply is that, is those various shades of violet there. That is what new supply is providing to make sure that the United States becomes energy independent. There's a whole other wedge there and guess what it is? That's energy efficiency. Energy efficiency is actually a larger wedge to reduce net imports to the point that the United States becomes fossil fuel independent. But that didn't make the headlines. That didn't make the press release of the WIO. That wasn't what people were talking about. But actually it's larger. It's real. The adoption of energy efficient stock is what is the greater wedge to achieve oil independence for the United States, at least according to the WIO's model. How big is that? Well, here's, oh boy. I guess this is a MAC issue. So this goes back to 1973 and not that the end there is 2011. And this shows for 11 of the major IEA countries representing about 74% of energy demand in the IEA, the evolution of total final consumption and the consumption of all fuels. And right there is the savings from energy efficiency over that time. So what that shows is the gradual adoption of more energy efficient stock in all of our energy sectors. So our more energy efficient vehicles, more energy efficient TVs. So instead of those big giant cathode ray TVs we have plasma TVs and all that. This gradual adoption over the past four decades has produced more in savings than the consumption of any one fuel. And in fact the savings from energy efficiency are about 60% of total final consumption for those 11 IEA countries. What's really important is that that gray line there is total final consumption since 1973. And if you look at it, it's actually relatively flat. And the reason for that basically is energy efficiency. Had we not improved the efficiency of all of our end use energies consuming stock, total final consumption would have been about 60% higher, hypothetically speaking. Now if there's economists in the room you're probably breaking out in cold sweats. It might be saying that prices would adjust and that we wouldn't have consumed that much more energy. That's true, but actually what would have happened is that our welfare just would have been a lot lower. Our energy prices would have been higher and we just wouldn't have been doing nearly as much with energy. So that's what energy efficiency has enabled for us. So that's kind of the starting point for the market report. That savings, all of that adoption is a real market. That's the people buying new TVs, new homes, more efficient homes, more efficient heaters, all of that. So let's try and quantify it. Let's try and say, hey, what does this really mean in context to the other fuels? How big is this market? So what we found is actually the market is very large indeed. It's about 310 to 360 billion. It's conceptual and what we've talked about is very much, it's definitional on how you define what the market is and then that will define, that will zero in on what type of value that you create for it. But we've run this by a number of experts and we do believe this is a sound estimate of about 300 billion, which means that energy efficiency is still the first fuel in the 1198 countries, which then leads us to say that that's probably the first fuel globally and that the market itself is diffuse, extensive, and anticipated to grow. So here's the content of the market report for this year. We look at how to value the market. We track progress on energy efficiency indicators for 26 IEA countries, Ireland being one of them. We look, we take a deep dive on the transport sector. It's often overlooked in energy efficiency, but transport is a huge source of potential energy efficiency improvements. And then we take a look at energy efficiency finance. That's part one, and then part two we profile 11 countries. We'll get into that briefly near the end of the report, so we did about six different methodologies to try and estimate how big the energy efficiency market was. If you're dying to know, I could send you a copy of the report. I won't worry with the details though. Only to say is that all six methodologies were around the 320 billion number. They were top-down methodologies, so again, if you're an economist, you might say, aha, top-down is always overestimates. What does the bottom-up methodology say? Well, the global energy assessment had done the bottom-up methodology, and they estimated it was $298 billion. So we feel $300 billion is a very safe estimate. And what's interesting about this graph here is this is a Monte Carlo kind of histogram of various changes and parameters and definition parameters for what the energy efficiency market is, and it's decidedly asymmetrical. So we see that actually it's likely, or potentially likely, that the energy efficiency market is larger, not smaller than $300 billion. If it's $320 billion, then that's how it compares to the other investments and the other energy fuels. So it would be the second-largest market next to upstream oil and gas. Just to put those savings in context, the past 15 years have been the discussion on the global energy system has been dominated by the role of the rise of giants, China, India, and the like, and what that extra demand is doing to the global energy system. Well, within that same time frame, energy efficiency savings are removing basically a major economy's worth of energy demand from the system. So this is a major part that's shaping our global energy system. That's often going overlooked, which leads us to say that this is the invisible powerhouse of the global energy system. If going back to 1973, as I said, is too far back, if that's too ancient history for you, then we actually did another analysis that looked, okay, let's just look at energy efficiency savings over the past decade, since 2001. What have those produced? We were able to expand the number of countries we looked at, from 11 to 18, because of the more availability, greater data availability. And we found that cumulative savings over the last decade was about 1700 million tons of oil equivalent. So that's greater than the total final consumption of the United States and Germany combined in 2011. How did we do this type of analysis? This is where Emer comes in, she helped us with a lot of this, is that we basically decomposed total final consumption for 1898 countries. Total final consumption, the consumption of energy is basically a product of various different drivers. Those large drivers are the active production growth, structural change, what the relative makeup of our economies are, and changing efficiency. So, if only our population and economy grew or changed since 2001, that is what our hypothetical energy consumption would have been, approximately 7% higher. If the structure of our economies changed, this is, you know, the offshoring, as they say, manufacturing, the growth of the commercial sector, the growth of the services sector, this is how the blue line is how TFC would have changed. Interestingly, you know, it didn't really change up until 2007, yet total final consumption was flat. Why is that? Well, because of changing efficiency. Efficiency basically offset the rise of growth of our economy and population, almost one to one, keeping TFC flat. So that's the important role of that place. After 2007, it's a bit difficult to glean a lot of insight. The recession, as you will know here, really kind of threw everything for a loop. This year we're going to look at 2012 and hopefully we can get some greater insight into, like, are we into a new phase of energy demand? Did the recession kind of kickstart us into something else? Or are we going to resume back to normal consumption patterns? So here's how a bunch of countries rate, you know, of interesting to notice that of the 12 of the 18 IEA countries that we looked at, efficiency savings work greater over the decade than the growth of GDP and the growth of our population. These are early evidence that potentially we are decoupling economic growth from energy demand and that's thanks to efficiency. Just looking very quickly at the transport market, it's a huge potential for energy efficiency. What we'll see is that policy is really going to drive this. So 70% of the global new vehicle fleet will be subject to energy efficiency standards. That's, you know, about 50 million vehicles. The story of the transport market though is really in the non-OECD. As you can see in both charts, excuse me, passenger kilometers and ton kilometers are basically flat in the OECD, but globally they're continuing to rise almost all from the non-OECD region. In the transport chapter we get, you know, you can get into these kind of high-minded philosophical discussions of what is efficiency. You know, is efficiency just the efficiency of your power train or is it the efficiency of the system? Is it the efficiency by which we're meeting energy service demand? And we go back and forth on, you know, what should we count as part of the energy efficiency market. You know, one story is if you only have the engineering efficiency of your drive train of converting chemical energy into a mode of power then we would all be flying around in air miners because they're incredibly efficient engines. But actually they're not efficient at satisfying our energy service demand, which is to move around, to go to work, to meet people, to be social, to enjoy entertainment, all of that. And so here we are, here we see, sorry about these charts, I blame McIntosh, but that freight and passenger rail can basically move a ton of goods or a person around at one tenth of the energy. And so included in these chapters we look at investments in public transit, look at investments in alternate transport infrastructure that doesn't prioritize vehicles. It's relatively small right now, it's about $195 billion, and it's not directly, it's very tenuous to say that if you build transport infrastructure then all of a sudden you're going to get a lot of people switching modes, but it is essential. It's not enough, but it's necessary if that makes any sense. And we think this is going to be a big potential market, especially in the non-OECD region. China itself has invested $160 billion in the high-speed rail network over the past five years. This high-speed rail network is longer than all other high-speed rail networks in the world combined. And so we definitely think that these are investments in efficiency. I'm concerned about time. Sure. How much time do we have? Well, I just wanted to leave time for questions and answers, so if I have an answer I'd say another 15 or 20 minutes. Yeah, yeah. I'll go very quickly. Maybe over time it's a million anyway. I think one of the words we used was invisible and energy efficiency as an invisible powerhouse. And I think it's part of the work you're doing is to make it more visible, and I think it's some very, very interesting work. And it's great to welcome Larkin back to the institute. He's been here as a guest on many an occasion and he's been working, I believe, on the energy efficiency market report also for the last year since rejoining the IEA. I did work previously in the IEA in another role and have come back. So this is still part of the energy efficiency market report presentation. This is the second thematic focus that we did. So along with transport, we took a more in-depth look at energy efficiency finance. And this is a really interesting and exciting part of the market picture. There's a lot happening around the world. Energy efficiency is expanding as a segment within energy efficiency finance. And there's a lot of innovation taking place to try and overcome barriers to energy efficiency investment that you're all familiar with, the upfront costs, payback times. So there's a lot of innovation happening in areas like energy performance contracting where an energy service company will say we'll take on the risk, we'll guarantee the savings and we'll pay ourselves out of some of the financial savings that accrue. Also areas like on-bill financing, so repaying investments through your utility bill or through in some countries your local tax bill. And so all of this is taking place around the world and being scaled up. Two kind of qualifiers. So one is that we shouldn't in talking about finance and all these exciting business models forget that most investment is still people stomping up for an energy efficient product out of their own cash and savings. It's businesses deciding to make an energy efficiency investment with their own capital. It's governments funding energy efficiency investment out of public funds. So while we do need to focus on reducing barriers to energy efficiency, finance and scaling that up, also not forgetting the demand side. There needs to be demand for energy efficiency for there to be projects to finance. But having said that that still leaves based on our 310, 320 market size that still is about 120 billion of finance. So a lot of that will still be provided by commercial banks classic loan products traditional lending. Even in that sector though we see that not only our banks thinking okay we can loan for energy renovation we can loan for various different energy efficiency investments. But also strategically they're starting to think a company, if we have a client and if they've got very high energy bills it increases their risk profile. So we can actually reduce the risk of our portfolio overall by paying more attention to energy efficiency. So one area in particular energy performance contracting that's really growing a lot around the world only put up this slide just to show you the spread of countries involved. And something you might not have guessed would be that China is the biggest market in the world in a huge factor in how they've increased the energy efficiency of their industry sector. So the second kind of half of the report is the country case studies. We won't be going through all of these. So we decided we chose particular countries and looked at them in more detail to see in reality on the ground what does all this look like all this market analysis and market size analysis that we did. So not surprisingly again China huge investments just in one five year period those savings are more than the total final energy consumption of a country like Canada for example. So it's a huge chunk of savings and huge investments to come in the current five year plan it's 200 to 270 billion dollars. A common theme across a couple of the chapters was LED lighting. You can see these exponential growth numbers in countries like Thailand and Japan and starting to happen in other countries you can imagine how big those numbers would be once India starts to move from CFLs to LED lighting. It's also chapter on Ireland with which we received inputs and collaborated a little bit with the department and with SCAI. I'd only maybe draw attention to just the energy intensity curve it's the lower curve on the right hand side which shows that even while Ireland is experiencing strong economic growth we were managing to reduce our energy intensity. There is an uptick during the recession especially in the industry sector then it comes back down and the latest year we had it slapped so this may be a question mark to be inserted there next as to what's going to happen next when we turn that curve back down or is it going to state flash or is it going to worsen so we don't do projections in this report but that's the question for you I'm sure we're interested and sure you have thoughts. We also did a decomposition so just as a world level we did the decomposition we also did one for the countries for which data was available including Ireland. It was brought down or held down by efficiency and also structure to a lesser extent in particular in the residential sector where efficiency improved by over 20% over the decades to 2011. Finally then in the chapter we also give some of the policy context that may help to explain some of those trends. EU policy is still a major driver for policy in Ireland it's the energy efficiency obligation scheme being set up energy reform, certificates and buildings but there's also a lot of really interesting policies at national level in various sectors as well I'm not going to describe or explain them all to you that's something I'm sure you could all do better than I could which is to say that there's a comprehensive spread of policies I think maybe the question for discussion is how is the uptake doing or how is the implementation in reality maybe to worry for some of these policies but that's again something we could discuss and so all of that as we've been saying is to try and say well look here's two new ways of looking at the energy efficiency market that could help thinking of it as a market as an investment opportunity and also the multiple benefits so I think that's maybe a good point to circle back and have some questions and answers Thank you


From theCUBE Studios in Palo Alto in Boston, connecting with thought leaders all around the world, this is a CUBE Conversation. Hey, welcome back, already. Jeff Frick here with theCUBE. We are at our Palo Alto Studios today and as we continue to go through week after week after week of the COVID crisis, the COVID situation, you know, we've been focusing on leadership and we've been reaching out to the community to get their take on, you know, what's happening, best practices, things that they can share to help and to share knowledge with the rest of the community and we're really excited to have our next guest, Rebecca Knight, you know her as a guest host on theCUBE. She's actually been a freelance journalist for decades and writes for all the top pubs. It's how we met her in the first place, doing some work at MIT. So Rebecca, first off, great to see you. It's been too long. We were supposed to be together this week, but situation kind of changed the schedule a little bit. Indeed, it's so good to see your face, Jeff, and it's so fun to be working with the CUBE gang again, even though we are many miles apart right now, we should all be together, but I'm really happy to be here, happy to be talking to you. Great, well I am too, and let's jump into it, because you know, you've been writing about leadership, but really why I wanted to reach out with you is instead of you kind of co-hosting our guests, really get your perspective on things, because you've been writing about leadership for a very long time. So now that we're, I don't know, six weeks into this thing, what are you writing about? What, you know, has the topics kind of shifted? You know, over the last several weeks, what's kind of top of mind? What are you publishing this week? Absolutely, the topics have shifted in the sense that there is only one topic, and that is COVID-19, and that is how our managers coping with this, with this health crisis, this pandemic, that is all over the world, of course, and a huge part of our workplace right now. Managers are just dealing with this unprecedented event in history and trying to be a sense of strength for their colleagues and for their direct reports at a time where they themselves don't really know what the future holds. None of us know what the future holds, and so this is a very hard time for managers right now, and so that's a lot of what I'm doing for Harvard Business Review. Now there's so many pieces to that. One, you know, we've been talking a lot about it as being kind of this light switch digital transformation moment because even if you had planned and people have been planning and things have been slowly moving, whether it be working from home for jobs or remote education and higher education, or a lot of these things, they were kind of, you know, moving along and then all of a sudden boom, full stop, ready, set, go, everyone has to stay home so that there wasn't really a plan, a rollout plan, and it's quite a challenge, and the other thing is not only for you, the individual who's going through this, but there's significant other or spouses also home, the kids are also home, and again, nobody really got an opportunity to plan and try to think some of these things through. So it's not only just working from home, but now it's this pandemic that adds all these extra layers of complexity and to your point, uncertainty, which is always the hardest thing to deal with. You know, Jeff, I've actually been working from home for over a decade now. I worked for the Financial Times for about 10 years and even then I was Boston Correspondent for the FT working from home. I was following a bunch of writers on Twitter, people were writing and saying, working from home is the worst. I'm constantly, at least nothing really can't concentrate. This, I will never want to work from home and then all these writers were chiming and saying, hold up, there's working from home and then there's working from home during a global pandemic. Two totally different things, but you're absolutely right. This is a time where our families are under foot, we're crying to homeschool our children, we are quarantined with our spouse trying to make our marriages work and also trying to do the job that we're being paid to do. If we're lucky enough to still be employed or still have assignments in the hopper. So you're right, this is not necessarily the test of remote work and remote learning that I think we all deserve and we will someday have and we're showing this is obviously an experiment and in some ways it's showing that it can work in different ways, but there is also, this is more, oh hey, you have eight days to get all your employees online right now or eight days to roll out your curriculum. So this is not quite exactly what we had all had in mind when we're talking about the future of online education or the digital organization, but it's certainly interesting to watch it all happen. So it's funny, as part of this we had Martin Mikosan and he has been running distributed teams for decades and it was really funny his take on it which was that it's so much easier to fake it at the office and too many people, we had Amy Hayworth on from Citrix and in a blog that she referenced, eventually people will start judging people based on outcome versus behavior and activities and it just, it strikes me that in 2020, is this what it's taken to get people to actually judge people by their output and I think Martin's other take was that when you work from home, all you have is your output. You don't have kind of looking busy or saying hi to the boss or the car looks really great today.  Yeah, I'm off two minds with that because I think that there is so much to be said for the teamwork, there's so, I mean, you may not be the person who is definitely always pedal to the metal, getting every single thing done, checking all the boxes, you know, I mean, obviously you have to be sort of have a baseline of productivity and engagement, but there's also just you're someone that other people like to work with. You're someone who offers good ideas who can be a really good sounding board who just will have those moments of creativity that are really important for a team to be to succeed and to get to the finish line. And again, I'm not saying the people who have just been coasting, oh yeah, this is it for you, but I'm just saying that there's a lot of different personalities and a lot of skill sets that go into making a great high functioning team. It takes all types. And so I think that we are missing that. We are missing the camaraderie, the collegiality of the water cooler chat and that's where teams do a lot of problem solving is sort of that informal conversation that right now a lot of us are missing because we've all had way too much zoom and no one wants to just sort of shoot the breeze on zoom with anyone. So what are you telling people? So unfortunately, you know, this is not how we would have planned it and we would have probably transitioned it in a little bit smoother matter, but here we are and we're actually now five, six weeks into it. I think the Monday was, I think March 16th was the big day here in the Bay Area when it all kind of got official. So what are some things that you're sharing with leaders and managers, you know, some specific things they can do, some specific tasks that they can do to help get through this better. The first thing I would say, and this is what I'm hearing from the experts that I'm talking to, the people who really study crisis management is first of all, steal yourself. This is a challenge of a lifetime and you are leading through something that is hard and you need to understand that.  This is what they're going to be writing case studies about in business schools for decades to come. So these are really big management challenges. Steal yourself, be ready for the challenge. Make sure you are taking care of yourself, getting enough sleep, getting rest on the weekends, time with your family and friends. Do exercise, eat, right. Don't just snack on Cheetos all day long. Make sure you are taking care of yourself. In terms of interacting with your employees and your team, obviously, like I just said, everyone cannot, everyone's Zoom fatigue is real. But at the same time, you do need to make time to talk to your team and say, hey, how are you? How are things? Make sure that people are, do, no, you need to make sure that you have your finger on the pulse of your team and make sure everyone's mental health. Is they okay? So yeah, empathy, humility, share with your team problems that you're facing yourself. I mean, obviously they should not be the repository for all of your fears and insecurities and worries about, whoa, I don't know if I'm gonna, am I gonna have a job next week? But at the same time, talk about the challenges you're facing too. Your team needs to know that you aren't a superhuman.   Right, that's what such a weird thing about it too. Having been through a couple of events like the earthquake or Mount St. Helens blowing up, the people that were in that area when something like that goes down, have a common story, right? Where were you in the earthquake? Where were you when Mount St. Helens blew up? But now this is a global thing where everyone will have a story. Where were you in March, 2020? So the fact that we're all going through it together and there's so many stories and impacts, the more people you talk to, the layers of the onions just keep unpeeling to more and more and more impact. But I'm curious to get your take on kind of how you see once we do get out of this because whether it's 12 months or 18 months or 24 months to get to a vaccine, now it seems like forever in the grand scheme of things it's gonna be a relatively short period of window. But over that time, behaviors become habits. And I'm just curious to get your take as to when it's okay to go back to work, whenever that is. I don't see it going back the way that it was because who's gonna want to sit on Highway 101 for two hours every morning once you've figured out a pretty good routine and a pretty good workflow without doing that. How do you see it kind of shaking out? So I couldn't agree more. And like I said, I've worked from home for many, many years. And so I do think that people, this is dispelling the myth that you need to work where you live. You have a lot more agency and a lot more freedom to get your job done anywhere you wanna live. And if that's in a city because, I mean, God willing, sports will come back and theater will come back. Music and all the reasons we love living in cities will one day be able to do that again. But if you like living near the mountains or near the ocean, you can do that and get your job done. So I think you're absolutely right about that. We're going to see many more people making a decision about, you know, this is the life I want to live and I can still do my job. And yet people still like being around other people.  We miss interacting. And so I think that we will have to think about some ways to create different kinds of offices. And we work type things, but I think they could just be different offices all over and they can be in the suburbs. They could be in the mountains and it could just be a place where people come together and sometimes they're in the same industry field, sometimes maybe in the same company. But I think that they don't even necessarily need to be that way. I think that some people will want to work from home and I think other people will want to go someplace even if it's not what we think of as the typical American office right now. But I even think, and I used to think this before, right? As you know, I ride my bikes and do all my little E-toys, but even if people didn't commute one day a week or didn't commute one day every two weeks or two days a week, the impact on the infrastructure to me some of these second order effects is looking at empty freeways and empty streets demonstrate that we actually have a lot of infrastructure. It just gets overwhelmed when everybody's on it at the same time. So just the whole concept of going in the same time every day. Of course, if you're in construction or you're in trades and you got a truck full of gear that you have to take, that's one thing. But for so many people now that are information workers and are just working on a laptop, whether it be home at a WeWork or at the office, even shifting a couple of days a week, I think has just a huge impact on infrastructure, or quality of life, the environment in terms of pollution, gas consumption and on and on and on. So I don't think it will go 100% one way or the other, but I certainly don't think it'll go 100% back to going into the office every day from eight to five. I couldn't agree more. And just the idea of the quality of life. And I have two children, nine and 12, and they are doing their schoolwork from home and they're doing all right. They're hanging in my older one in particular. I say that she's sort of this mix between a graduate student and a young MBA because she's got her little devices already zooming with her science teacher then check up play rehearsal there. But, you know, I think that the slowing down has actually been kind of good for them too because they're busy kids and they have a lot going on and actually having family dinners, having board games, watching family movies, going for family hikes on the weekends, that has been really good. And for everything true, I mean, obviously we're all so indebted and grateful to the frontline workers. And we also see there is a lot of loss around us people losing loved ones to this horrible disease and then losing livelihoods. But I think that then we are seeing a few silver linings in this too. So I think that sometimes our quality of life has, for some people, this has been, quarantine's getting a little old, but at the same time, I think that there has been some bright spot for a lot of people too. Yeah, I think you're right. And again, it's a horrible human toll.  But just final question before I let you go is really on higher education. So it's one thing with the kids and K through 12 and how sophisticated they are and ability to learn online. But I'm really more interested to get your take on higher education because you've already got kind of this scale back in terms of the number of physical classes that people attend when they're in undergrad and the actual amount of time that they spend in lecture. I mean, this is just now knocking that right off of the table. And I'm just really curious to get your take on higher education with distributed learning because it's something that's been talked about for a long time. I think there's been a lot of resistance. But again, this light switch moment and if it goes on for into the next school year, what's that going to do to kind of higher education and the stance of how much infrastructure they actually need to support educating these kids? Well, I am a Wesleyan grad and the president of Wesleyan was quoted in the New York Times this weekend talking about that this very topic saying that this has really shown us the value of a residential, not necessarily four year, but residential education where people are together and they are able to collaborate, be creative, have fierce debate in the classroom that is just frankly not possible with remote learning or at least not to the same degree, to the same extent. And the kind of accessibility you have with professors particularly at a small liberal arts school like the one that I went to. I think that Jeff, a lot of colleges are not going to be able to survive this because they are so tuition dependent and a lot of kids are going to defer. If they say, if I can't be at college in the fall, I'm going to take a year off and go to community college or I'm going to do something else, I'm going to take a gap year and then reassess my options once this health crisis passes and I think that for a lot of colleges, that's just not punishable for them and for their operations. So I'm afraid that a lot of businesses and a lot of colleges are going to close. Yeah, it's just crazy the impact and just showing, as you said, we are social beings, we like to be together and when you stop people from being together, it makes you really realize how often we are together, whether it's weddings and funerals and bar mitzvahs and those kind of things in church and family stuff or whether it's business things, conventions, concerts, sporting events. I mean, so many things, street fairs, are really about bringing people together and we do like to be together. So this too will pass and hopefully the warriors in this battle, thankfully are super smart. We're hopefully using a lot of modern compute that we didn't have in the past. Thankfully, we have things like the internet and Zoom that you and I can talk from 3,000 miles away. So I'm glad you're hopeful. I'm hopeful we'll get through it and then we can get together on a set and do some interviews together. I can't wait. Right, exactly. I miss you, yes, absolutely. All right, Rebecca. Well, thanks for checking in. Be safe, look forward to seeing you in person and until then, have a great, I guess May. We're into May, Mother's Day is coming up. So happy Mother's Day a few days early. Thank you very much. Jeff, it was a pleasure working with you again. All right, we'll take care. She's Rebecca, I'm Jeff. You are watching theCUBE. Thanks for checking in. We'll see you next time.


has nothing to do with my emotions. This morning, being the first Sunday of the month, it's our joy, our privilege, our blessing to partake of the Lord's table together. So turn with me in your Bibles to 1 Corinthians chapter 11, verse 23. 1 Corinthians chapter 11, verse 23. We'll be back in Deuteronomy in just a moment. But in 1 Corinthians chapter 11, we have Paul's record of the Lord instituting the Lord's supper, that which we observe each month on the first Sunday of the month. It says in verse 23, Paul says, for I received from the Lord that which I also delivered to you, that the Lord Jesus on the same night in which he was betrayed took bread. And when he had given thanks, he broke it and said, take, eat. This is my body, which is broken for you. Do this in remembrance of me. In the same manner, he also took the cup after supper saying, this cup is the new covenant in my blood. This do as often as you drink it in remembrance of me. For as often as you eat this bread and drink this cup, you proclaim the Lord's death till he comes. Brothers, you can come forward to distribute the bread. The Lord's supper, as we see in 1 Corinthians chapter 11, is a time of joyful and a time of solemn remembrance. It's a time of joyful remembrance because we have been redeemed, amen. It's a time of joyful remembrance because we have been forgiven of our sin, reconciled to God. Thank you, brother. It's a time of solemn remembrance because we weren't redeemed with corruptible silver. We were redeemed with the precious blood of Christ as of a lamb without blemish and without spot. For that reason, the Lord's table is not to be approached like any other common traditional meal. It's not a common time or a common thing. Paul says in 1 Corinthians chapter 11, whoever eats this bread or drinks this cup of the Lord in an unworthy manner will be guilty of the body and blood of the Lord. So then, for Paul's instructions to us, we're to eat the bread and drink the cup in an atmosphere as it were of self-examination. Examine yourself, right? What does it mean to take the supper in an unworthy manner, as Paul describes here? To take the supper in an unworthy manner is to take the supper thoughtlessly. Paul says it's to take the supper not discerning the Lord's body. So it's to take the supper thoughtlessly, not understanding the significance of Christ's sacrifice for sin, not acknowledging the significance of Christ's sacrifice for sin, not embracing through faith and repentance Christ's sacrifice for your sin, not turning from the sin for which Christ died to set you free. We're not to take the supper thoughtlessly. So you shouldn't take the supper as a lost person. If you've not turned from your sin to put your faith and trust in the Lord Jesus Christ and are following him in faith, then it would be an unworthy. It would be unworthy of you. You'd be taking the supper in an unworthy manner. But you also shouldn't take the supper as a thoughtless, careless, unrepentant professing Christian either. We shouldn't be thoughtless or careless or unrepentant when we come to the Lord's table. Now, you could rightly say that the soil in which the Lord instituted the supper that we celebrate today, that soil is found in the types and shadows of the Old Testament. Turn with me to Exodus chapter 12, Exodus chapter 12. The soil in which the supper is instituted, we could say are the types and shadows of the Old Testament. And we see this in Exodus chapter 12. In Exodus chapter 12, after nine devastating plagues in Egypt, God's judgment of Pharaoh and God's judgment on Egypt's pagan gods will culminate in a 10th and final plague. God would destroy all the firstborn in Egypt as a sign for the angel of the Lord to spare the firstborn of those in Israel. The Israelites were commanded to slaughter a lamb and to take the blood of that lamb and spread it on the doorposts and on the lintel of their houses. Seeing the blood, the angel of the Lord would pass over those houses and spare the firstborn living inside. We see that in Exodus chapter 12, beginning in verse 21. So Moses called for all the elders of Israel and said to them, pick out and take lambs for yourselves according to your families and kill the Passover lamb.  And none of you shall go out of the door of his house until morning for the Lord will pass through to strike the Egyptians. And when he sees the blood on the lintel and on the two doorposts, the Lord will pass over the door and not allow the destroyer to come into your houses to strike you. I praise the Lord that he makes a distinction between his people and the lost, the wicked of this world, amen. That is grace and mercy in Christ. Now there's so much about this account in Exodus chapter 12 that is type and shadow, a foreshadowing, if you will, of things to come. Jesus Christ now is our Passover lamb. First Corinthians chapter five, verse seven, Paul says Christ, our Passover was sacrificed for us. It's through the redemption that we have in his shedblood that we are not destroyed, right? But what is it that would be significant about the doorposts and about the lintel on a Jewish house? Turn with me back to Deuteronomy chapter six. Deuteronomy chapter six. What would it, what is it that would be significant about the doorposts, about the lintel? Why the mention of the doorposts and the lintel specifically? Look at Deuteronomy six in the text read in your hearing during our call to worship, verse four. Hero Israel, the Lord our God, the Lord is one.  These words which I command you today shall be in your heart.  You shall bind them as a sign on your hand. They shall be as frontlets between your eyes.  What are they to write? They're to write verse six. All these words which I command you is the words of the law. A Jewish house would have written upon the doorposts and upon the lintel, the very law of God. These reminders in the book of Deuteronomy are very important, exceedingly important, so important that Moses tells the people to write them on the doorposts of their house. Written upon the doorposts and the lintel of the Jewish house would have been the law of God. So in the years to come, think with me, in the years to come, as the Jewish people then celebrated the Passover of God's deliverance, they would take the blood of that sacrificial lamb and they would spatter it, spread it over the inscribed law of God on the doorposts and on the lintel of their house. Now remember what the law was for. The law shows us how we're supposed to live as image bearers of God. We have an obligation to obey the one who made us, the one in whose image we have been made. The law also shows us how far short we fall of living according to that standard. We are all sinners. Romans 3, verse 20, by the law is the knowledge of sin. Lastly, the law is to point us to God's provision for sin, His grace and His mercy in Christ. Ultimately the law, Paul said, was our tutor to bring us to Christ. So at the Passover then, at the Passover, the Jews would see the blood stains covering the law, written on their doorposts as they entered their house. It would be a reminder to them of their obligation to keep the law. It would be a reminder of the fact that they had failed to keep it and could not keep it, could not love the Lord with all their heart, soul, mind and strength. Ultimately it would be a reminder of the blood sacrifice that was necessary for their deliverance. And it would point them forward, wouldn't it? It was meant to point them forward to their need for a full and final sacrifice for sin, a sacrifice for sin that would only be found in the Lamb of God, Christ, our Passover. The one who gave up his body in death, the one who shed his own blood, a sacrifice for sin, having wiped out, as it were, the handwriting of requirements that was against us, that was contrary to us. He has taken that handwriting out of the way and has nailed it to his cross. And if you have placed your faith in Christ for that blessed deliverance, then you have the blood of the Lamb spattered across the doorposts of your heart this morning. And we are here to remember that sacrifice as we take the meal together. Eat the bread with me, Father in heaven. So we take this bread together as your covenant people.   And we are forever grateful to you, Lord, for the forgiveness of sin that we have in you and that we are covered in, clothed in the blood of the Lamb, washed by the blood of the Lamb, clothed in the righteousness of the Lord, Jesus Christ, that we might be passed over as it were for destruction. But beyond that, Lord, adopted into the household of God, thank you for these glorious blessings that we now remember as we partake of the Lord's supper together. May you be glorified in our worship in Jesus' name, amen. As the men come forward to distribute the cup, then like the Israelites enslaved in bondage to Egypt, we ourselves, brothers and sisters, are enslaved to our bondage in sin, enslaved and in bondage to sin. Christ's body was delivered up in death, his blood shed because we are incapable of keeping that law. Thank you, brother.  The law that is written upon the doorposts of our heart stands, brothers and sisters, as a testimony against us. So Jesus Christ offered himself as a sacrifice that the wrath of God that you and I deserve would be poured out on him and would pass over you and I. See this table, this supper is rooted and grounded in the Old Testament types and shadows concerning the Passover. The picture established at Passover is no coincidence. However, the blood shed at Passover was not merely a wrath satisfying sacrifice. It wasn't simply to cover their sin. The sacrifice, that Passover was also necessary to secure their freedom. And to secure their freedom from bondage in Egypt. The children of Israel were led out of Egypt and brought to a land that God had promised to give them. Deuteronomy chapter six, look at verse 10. So it shall be, when the Lord your God brings you into the land of which he swore to your fathers, to Abraham, Isaac and Jacob, to give you large and beautiful cities which you did not build, houses full of all good things which you did not fill, hewn out wells which you did not dig, vineyards and olive trees which you did not plant and when you have eaten and are full, then beware. Lest you forget the Lord who brought you out of the land of Egypt from the house of bondage. These feast days Passover being one among them, three times a year the Israelites, Jewish men were required to make the journey to Jerusalem to participate in the feast. The feast days, the Sabbaths, we're all about remembering the Lord their God. We are prone to forget, we're prone to wander. We need to be continuously reminding ourselves of these truths, of grace, of mercy, of the Lord Jesus Christ. We have to continuously remind ourselves otherwise how quickly we forget, right? You tell me if it isn't so, if this isn't your experience, as well as mine, you go a couple of days when things haven't gone as you think they should, maybe you haven't had the time in prayer that you think you should, maybe not at all, maybe you haven't done your daily devotions as you should, haven't been reading the Bible, how soon we forget and the Lord's day comes and what a refreshment that is to our souls every day. That should be a refreshment to our souls, right? We need to remember the Lord our God.  Out of the house of bondage, verse 13, you shall fear the Lord your God and serve him and shall take oaths in his name.  Until we reach the promised land, until we reached our promised land, the promised land that this promised land was meant to point to, until we reach our promised land, let us not forget the Lord who brought us out of bondage in Egypt, out of bondage to our sin. Let us do this in remembrance of him. As we, according to his promise, look for a new heavens and a new earth, a city whose builder and maker is God, right? In which righteousness dwells, an eternal city. It's interesting that Moses continues. Look at verse 20 with me. And verse 20, when your son asks you in time to come saying, what is the meaning of the testimonies, the statutes and the judgments which the Lord our God has commanded you, what is the meaning of this supper that we take on the first Sunday of the month? What is the meaning of this time of remembrance? Then you shall say to your son, verse 21, we were slaves of Pharaoh in Egypt. We were. The Lord brought us out of Egypt with a mighty hand. Tremendously mighty. The Lord showed us signs and wonders before our eyes. Say it isn't so. Great and severe against Egypt, Pharaoh and all his household. Then he brought us out from there that he might bring us in and give to us the land of which he swore to our fathers. And the Lord, it's interesting in Romans 4, Paul says that Abraham was to inherit the earth, not just that little piece of territory on the east coast of the Mediterranean, west coast, east coast of the Mediterranean. He used to inherit the earth. The Lord commanded us, verse 24, to observe all these statues, to fear the Lord our God for our good always, that he might preserve us alive as it is this day. Then it will be righteousness for us if we are careful to observe all these commandments before the Lord our God as he has commanded us. Praise God that Jesus Christ is our righteousness. We're unable to keep the law. We're not here remembering the law in that way, celebrating our deliverance by the law, rejoicing in the salvation that's been provided in the law. No, no, in the Lord Jesus Christ, in all that Jesus Christ has done, in all who he is, we celebrate him. We rejoice over him. We remember him and we remember the sacrifice that he has made for sinners. His blood avails for us. And when you take the cup, we're remembering that fact. If you are trusting in Christ for his righteousness, not your own, then take the cup with me. Father of heaven, as we now take the cup in remembrance of the shed blood of our Lord Jesus Christ, we are sobered by the thought of the price of our redemption, but Lord as we take the cup and taste the sweetness of the vine together, reminded of and drawn to the sweetness of that sacrifice on behalf of wretched, undeserving sinners and the love that was poured out there for us. And we praise you and we worship you and we thank you. I pray, Lord, that not one of us would take this, would observe this in a cavalier manner, in a flippant way, treating the blood of the covenant a common thing, but that we would with sober mind and rejoicing in our heart remember and we were not redeemed with corruptible things like silver and gold, but with the precious blood of the Lord Jesus Christ and that we would worship and praise you and remember you always for these things. Lord, I pray that you would keep them at the front of our minds, keep them in fullness in our hearts that by your spirit we might endure to the end and be saved and that forever we would be testimonies of your grace and mercy as we worship you in the land that you have promised those who are partakers of the inheritance of the saints and the light. Thank you for this time of remembrance. Be with us now, Lord, as we continue to worship you and may your name be magnified. In Jesus' name we pray, amen.