Tired of the everyday grind? Ever dream of a life of romantic adventure? Wanna get away from it all? We offer you escape. Escape, designed to free you from the four walls of today for a half hour of high adventure.  Purifying, sweltering streets. While the man you fear has already made his mark on you. A mark from which there can be no escape. So listen now, as escape brings you James Leal Henderson's frightening story, The Untouchable. It was a shame about Riedels having to go to India. It was a shame about the leprosy too. He was a little man, balding, pale, and in his early 40s he was fussy and precise, an absolute fanatic about cleanliness. So you can see he was the last man on earth to send to India, even with his wife Prudence along to take care of him. Riedel and I were thrown together on a job. We met for the first time in the Hotel Imperial in Delhi. He was a chemical engineer and I'm a construction engineer. We'd been hired separately to look over the possibilities of a chemical plant in India. It was a job I needed, needed badly. I bounced around the globe a lot. Asia is not too bad when you get to know it, but Riedel... Well, the poor guy was in misery. He was right out of a Cleveland suburb and terrorized by a germ. We had been in New Delhi a week and I couldn't move Henry Riedel out of the hotel even for business. He'd walled himself off and just sat brooding about India's squalor beyond the window. I'd worked my head off for the two of us getting things set up and then it came time to go on tour around the country and look for a plant site. I went to his hotel room one afternoon. He was standing at the open window, looking down at the street. Back eh? I've been in 14 government offices. Count them Henry, 14. But we're squared away now. Oh boy, I'm knocked out. I'm sorry, but I just didn't feel up to going with you today. You know, how do you feel? Take all your bills? Yes, but I'd feel a lot better if that snake charmer would stop playing that screechy pipe. It's been driving me crazy and those cobras being so near. And believe me, Henry, those are the sickest snakes on earth. They wouldn't bite on invitation. Why don't you just tell them to go away? He's filthy. Fred, I wouldn't go near him. He doesn't want to dance with you. He wants money. Well, I'll get rid of him. Hey, snake, voila.  Now no more music, understand? No more. Go. Now we can talk, Henry. First, how about a drink? Sure, Fred. I'll have one with you. Scott? Yeah, fine, fine. Afraid I've only got one glass left that's been put in boiling water? Just give me a glass, Henry. Any glass will do. You should be more careful. A British fellow was telling me yesterday...  Look, Henry, I know you've asked the company for a replacement, but we haven't got time to wait for them.  I... I... You'll have to. We made an agreement. I know, but nobody told me it was going to be like this. Nothing safe to eat, water buffalo.  No, let's not go through that again. Oh, hello, Fred. How are you? You look tired. Oh, hello, Prue. I am tired. Rough day. Yeah, that's a nice piece of ivory. Isn't it, Buddha? It's very old. I wanted you and Henry to see it. I bought it down in the bazaar. How can you stand it down in those dirty bazaars? Oh, Henry, don't be silly. Well, if you two are going to... No, I'd like you to stay for a minute. If you will, Prue, I think you ought to hear this. I just told Henry that we can't stall on this trip one day longer, so I've bought two tickets for tonight's flight to Bombay. That's going to be our first stop. Tonight? I won't do it, Fred. I just can't. Jumping around this terrible country, you can never tell what will happen to you. And what about Prudence? No, Fred, you've got to wait. I just don't feel well at all. We've got a job to do, Henry. Now pull yourself together. Prue can't come. Accommodations are tightened. We'll probably have to travel around the sticks. I'll take good care of you. We'll boil everything. We'll boil a whiskey, if you insist. How long do you think it'll be, Fred? Oh, three weeks, maybe. No longer. Three weeks? Henry, it'll be all over soon and we'll be back home. Yes, but Prudence, I just don't feel right about this. I'm afraid. You must go, Henry. Fred's depending on you. We'll be ready, Fred. I'll pack for him. Well, we got off all right with Prudence pushing from behind. We flew down from Delhi and landed at the Bombay Airport at first light. Then we climbed aboard the airline bus for the long ride through town to the Taj Mahal Hotel. Good Lord, it was hot. Vicious. The air was pure steam, couldn't breathe. None of the walks the homeless were beginning to stir. A thousand of them. No place to live, no place to go. The human wreckage of Asia. It is so hot. Bad. It always is just before the monsoon. Well, we'll get us an air-conditioned room, Henry. A cool bath, nice mango for breakfast. Fresh fruit? Oh, not for me. The Taj is a good hotel, Henry. Bombay is pretty modern, even with all the poor you've been seeing on the streets, you'll see. Well, come on, this is it. It's a nice, cool bath waiting. Look, look.  Look at him. What is it? I've never seen anything so horrible. His hands, look. He's a leper, Henry.  Fred, don't let him touch me, don't let him.  Now come on.  One rupee, sir. Here, take it easy, Willem. All right, Henry, let's go. Oh, Fred, his hands. They were horrible. After seeing the leper, it was three days before I could drag Henry Rydell out of the hotel for a business meeting in town. And when I did, he clung to me like a little boy lost. But we did make some headway on our plans and I felt more cheerful after the meeting. I talked Henry into having dinner in a Chinese restaurant a few blocks from the hotel. The place was spotless, the food was good. Henry stoked up on rice and I almost caught him smiling once. Then afterwards we sauted back to the hotel through the dark, stifling night. That's the first decent meal I've seen you eat in India, Henry. It was good. I'd like to eat there again tomorrow, Fred. Sure, why not? But of course, you never can tell. The bugs might be anywhere. I'll take some tablets when we get back to the room. Yeah, you do that.  Oh, say, look, give the store prudence of it like nothing but ivory. Fred, wait a moment, will you? I want to look. I look back. That same poor devil of a leper had moved out of the darkened doorway of the store and was pawing Henry. Get away from me, don't touch me. Please, please, no, leave me alone. Fred, his hands, they've touched. Here, walla, walla, pick them up. By heaven's sake, get away, get away. Right on my skin, he touched me. Come out of it, Henry, nothing's going to happen. Don't look. Come on, let's get back to the hotel. Fred, his hands. He can hold the flame to them and feel nothing. And he touched me with them. He rubbed me on the bare skin, on my hands and here, on my arm and wrist. I felt it, Fred. I felt it rubbing into me. Henry, believe me, you don't catch leprosy that way. Now, nothing's going to happen to you. I've got to wash. Right now, I've got to wash. Henry washed all right thoroughly. He washed for half an hour. This, I didn't mind, but as I turned and twisted in bed through the hot blanketing night, I could hear him every few minutes, washing, washing. He kept it up day and night, wherever we were, washing harder and harder. He scrubbed those places on his arm and wrist with a brush until the skin was rubbed raw. For two days it went on like that, but I let it pass. I didn't say anything. I needed him for the tour good or bad. Gosh knows he wasn't worth much in that state, but he was docile, nice and docile. Nothing seemed to bother him so long as he had a place to wash. Henry, you're clean enough for tonight. You've got to grab some sleep. If I keep at this thing, maybe I can prevent infection. If you keep at it, you'll wear your arm away. No, I figure if I just scrub down in there below the skin, I'm sure to kill it. Henry, we're pretty well finished up here in Bombay. Tomorrow I thought we'd shove off for Bangalore and look around. Sure, Fred, that's fine by me, anything you say. A day there ought to be enough and then Madras. The way things are shaping up, Madras may be the spot for the plant. Henry, Madras, I thought we'd stick around Madras about a week. Okay, Fred. I thought you might wire Prudence and ask her to meet us there. No. No, I don't want to do that, not now. Why, Henry? There's no point in it. I'd rather she stayed in Delhi until this tour has finished. She's used to it there, Fred, and there's no telling what you and I will be doing. Why, Henry? I don't want Prudence to come. That's final. All right. Let's forget it. But Henry, listen to me. Please. Stop worrying about that leopard touching you. Nothing's going to happen. We will return to escape in just a moment. But first, tomorrow night the Lux Radio Theater brings Joan Fontaine and Charlton Heston to its microphones, co-starring in The President's Lady. It's the true scandal-ridden story of President Andrew Jackson and his wife Rachel, with Joan in the title role and Charlton as Old Hickory. That's on the Lux Radio Theater, the same night CBS Radio stars Mr. John Hodiak in suspense's production of Hellfire. Yes, tomorrow night on most of the same CBS radio stations. Now, back to Escape. Madras, South India. A warm, wet wind off the Bay of Bengal. The ceaseless rustle of the cocoa palms outside our hotel and the inevitable snake charmer with his toneless pipe. I worked hard at Madras. Maybe too hard. I didn't see that Henry was cracking up badly. But don't get me wrong, he made good sense. And on the business side was perfect. When I said yes, he said yes. Anything I didn't like, Henry didn't like it either. Ideal for me. He had the big reputation from the states which the Indian people wanted and I ran the show. I was hoping to nail down a deal right there. There two more and it would be all set. And it had been a long time. A long, long time. But as I said, poor old Henry. Coming apart. One afternoon I was going over plans in our room. Yes, yes I understand. Then, with the plan here, we'd have to put in a railroad sighting leading somewhere through just about in here. There's room for a landing strip just to... Henry, what's the matter? Nothing.  What are you doing to your arm? It's all right, Fred. Nothing. Go ahead with the plan.  Henry for heaven's sake. I want to make sure that I can feel it when I pinch myself. Sometimes I don't.  You haven't got leprosy. No, there's not a chance in a million or even ten million that you've got it. Yes, but that man... I know, I know, the leopard touched you, but the disease is just not that contagious. If he rubbed you all night with his hands, you wouldn't get it. Now take my word for it. There are exceptions, Fred. Maybe, but I doubt it. And you're not one of them anyway. Now, Henry, believe me, there's not a chance in the world that you're having leprosy. Much things easily, Fred, I always have. And when I pinch myself here on the wrist real hard, I don't feel a thing. Honestly, up here I can feel it on my arm, so there must be something. I'm going to get a doctor. No, no, Fred, no, please. He might send me to one of those awful colonies here in India. I might never get home. I'm going to get a doctor. Fred, please, I believe you now. I don't have it. I couldn't have it. You don't have to get a doctor. Okay, Henry. We'll let it go for now. But forget leprosy, will you? Just hang on to yourself for a few more days until we get this deal set and then everything will be fine. Did I say everything would be fine? Just how wrong can you be? I wired Prudence and Deli and told her to hustle down to Madras on the first available plane and meanwhile I just played for time, but there wasn't enough of it. Then one night I woke up when I heard Henry moving about during the quiet hours of the early morning. His bed lamp was on. What is it, Henry? Henry, what's the matter? I have it. I'm diseased. I have leprosy. No. Go back to bed, Henry, please. We'll talk about it in the morning. Everything will seem different in a daylight. You won't help to talk about it. I've got it, that's all. I'm unclean. Fred, I'm a leper. Please, Henry, try to sleep. Fred, I can prove it. Watch. See, I don't feel a thing. The flesh is dead. Stop it, Henry. I'm diseased, a leper and untouchable. No, you're not. I'm Henry Ridell, an American businessman from Cleveland, Ohio, with an obsession. You're all right, Henry. You do it, Fred. Stick me with this. Anywhere on my lower arm. I'll show you, I don't feel it. Henry, stop it. I know, I'm diseased, but I won't touch you, Fred. Just stick me with the pen as deep as you want. Do it, Fred.  A leper? Yeah. I guess that's right. You try to sleep now, Henry. Yes. I'll sleep now. I'm tired, but, Fred, you won't tell anyone about this. I mean a doctor or anyone like that. No, of course not, no. It's got to be our secret, Fred. Not even prudence can know. You see, they might try to send me to one of those colonies and I couldn't stand it, Fred. Fred, you promised. I promised, Henry. Now go to sleep. When this deal is signed for you, I'll just disappear, Fred. I don't know where yet, but nobody will ever hear from me again. I got up early the next morning to meet the plane from Delhi. Prudence was coming. Thank heaven she was coming. Henry was still sleeping like a stone. I left quietly, praying to get back with Prudence before he waked. I was scared and, well, I didn't like myself much. I had dragged Henry into this appalling mess and then let it get out of hand because I wanted that contract. I wanted to make a buck. On the way from the airport to the hotel, I tried to break Prudence in gently, but the simple fact that I and not Henry had wired her was enough to convince her that something was seriously wrong. Fred, please, you can stop beating about the bush. Just tell me what's wrong with Henry. Well, Prudence, he has an obsession. He thinks he has leprosy. Oh, no. He's not in his right mind, Prudence. You've got to be prepared for that. But why didn't you send for me sooner, Fred? Why didn't you? Well, he didn't want me to. He doesn't want to see me, but he's needed me so much, all our lives. All I've ever done is take care of Henry at home. I always... Prudence, now, try to understand. This isn't home. It's India. And Henry thinks he's a leper. At the hotel, Prudence and I hurried to the room. But the door was locked from the inside. Henry! I know he's in there. Forget me. I'm unclean.  Henry! Prudence, don't just say, I'm dead. Will you? I'm dead. After a doctor then, fast. Fortunately, there was one with offices right in the hotel building. Nice-looking young fellow, an Indian, dark and slender, and he wore Indian rather than European clothing. And certainly wasn't very coherent, and the perplexed expression came into his face. But he took up his kit and came along with me. We may have to force our way in, doctor. So? This is a very strange case, Mr. McAllister. Sure is. Now, here we are. Anything happened, Prudence? No. He won't even answer me anymore. Henry! Who's that? Fred, who's that Indian? Have disease, leprosy, leprosy. That was it. End of chapter. Dr.  A few days later, Henry Rydell left India by plane and on a stretcher, tied down, too. But Prudence was along to take care of him. As for me, tough. I lost the contract, deserved to, I guess. The way I treated Henry, dragging him around India in that condition. End of chapter, but not quite the end of the story. I knocked around Asia for months after that and all the time I wondered how poor old Henry came out. But never a word. Then one day I found myself back in the States again in Cleveland, as a matter of fact. I went out to see what had happened to him. Henry was not in a leper colony, or even an insane asylum.  He looked older, but otherwise fit enough. Funny thing, though. I said hello, and he said hello, and then he said... I have to go in now. But Henry, no, wait a moment. Well, I just want to tell you that... I'm glad you're well again. You don't know how glad.  Henry... Henry, you remember me, don't you? Fred McAllister. Yes? I remember you. How's Prudence? Prudence is in good health, thank you. Fine. Fine, happy to hear it. Well, um... Aren't you going to... What's the matter? Nothing, huh? I'm all right. Henry had grabbed his left arm, as if it had suddenly been scalded, burned. And you know what it was? An ant. A tiny ant crawling on the skin. Feeling it come back to his arm all right, with a vengeance. Well, I have to go in now. Goodbye, Fred. Bye, Henry. I'm glad to see you home again. Here's the direction of Anthony Ellis. Escape has brought you The Untouchable, a story by James Leal Henderson, starring John Daner as Fred, and Parley Baer as Henry. Featured in the cast were Joan Denton, Jack Krushen, and Charles Davis. The special music for Escape was composed and conducted by Leith Stevens. Next week...  While outside, your children are playing a new and wonderful game. The result of which will mean for you a fate from which there is no escape. So listen, next week, when Escape will bring you Ray Bradbury's terrifying story, Zero Hour. When Arthur Godfrey beckons to the new talent scouts and their discoveries, they are the role of popular songman, Martha Flowers, who has a way with semi-classical songs, and the Fletcher-Pectrio, as unusual a novel to group as you've heard in a long, long time. They're all potential winners on Arthur Godfrey's Talent Scouts. Yours for fun and human interest. Tomorrow night, on most of the same CBS radio stations. Be sure to hear it. Arthur Godfrey's Talent Scouts. This is Roy Rowan speaking. And remember, there's action as a policeman really finds it in 21st Precinct. Tuesdays on the CBS Radio Network.


This evening, I have the privilege of interviewing Angelique Monroe. Thank you. Let's start right at the very beginning. Where did you grow up? Chicago at the northwest side. Tell us a little bit about your neighborhood, about your family. I grew up at the northwest side of Lincoln Park until I was about nine. And then we moved to Humboldt Park and two different worlds. From there to there. It was really difficult growing up. Being born in the wrong body, first of all. And the neighborhoods, people not accepting and not understanding. I think that was more than anything. So it was really difficult at a time, especially in Humboldt Park. I did a lot of running. Please tell us a little bit about the history of transgenderism. Well, I didn't know that much about it myself. When I was born, my brain told me I was a girl. I always felt female. Early on, I would say, for like two years old, I was born an old child. And I would tell my mom, you know, I'm a girl, I'm a girl.  And the abuse that I encountered as a kid was really difficult. Because you don't know anything. All you know is what happens in your home when you think that's normal. So the abuse I encountered, I didn't realize until much later on how bad it really was. Her thing that she used to do was she would choke me, throw him to the ground, and then step on my throat with her foot. And that happened until I was like around 13 years old. So it was really difficult trying to understand or make some sense of why I was born in that form with a penis. I should have a vagina.  And my cousins, you know, I was really close to a couple of my girl cousins and I would play dress up with them. And it was like a little moment to be free and to be moved. It felt normal and yet we would do that behind closed doors. And I did that for many years behind closed doors in my bedroom. I would put like a sheet wrapped around as a dress or a towel, my hair, or even a t-shirt and just had my own time. You know, live in my little world where it was sort of safe.  Well, I was born in 1970. And I think 1970, they knew pretty much all my parents were not educated. You know, my mom went, I think she went through like me, she went to college in Europe high school. If that and my dad, he went to like fourth grade and worked on the farm. So they really didn't understand what transgender was. They knew gay straight. And they knew their son was not straight, you know. So I think throughout the years I learned that she looked like what, she was worried about what other people thought of her. You know, they had this child that was different.  And while she would beat me, I'd have to go to school with, you know, a turtleneck on to cover up the bruises and stuff. And again, I never thought anything different.  So I lived a type of lifestyle for a while and it just didn't feel right. The boyfriends I had were actually bisexual and, you know, I was always attracted to the straight man. But your mother's position toward you evolved over time. Tell us a little bit about that. Yeah, I want to make my thing clear. I was on television and editing was really something.  But there was a lot that happened that I didn't know until I was much older as an adult. My parents divorced when I was 27 and my mom couldn't live with me. And we talked and talked for two years. We lived together and she told me that she was abused. She was raped by her father. So it's a cycle.   She said, well, you deserved it.  Again, I didn't realize what rape was or the station. I just knew that's what happened. And with my one uncle on my mom's side, it was pretty consistent. Almost every Friday night, a long time. And I think I know for a fact that the reason why I don't like older men is that's probably why.  I don't like people coming up behind me and those type of things. At 42 years old, they still jump. You know, spooked in my own house sometimes. And I think that's all from the childhood abuse. How were you able to resolve some of that? Counseling. Many years of counseling. You know, I think I'm a survivor. And there's a reason that for every single thing that happens in the world and I learned all through therapy could be added to the difference. And I think the things I went through were horrible, but we can't dwell in them. You've got to become stronger and be, you know, you've got to set that free. And the sad thing is my one uncle's still living and I don't see him. I haven't seen him for many, many years. But I started transitioning. It's going to be seven years. And my aunt died right after my mom's death a year after.   I will find a weapon. I'm not violent at all, but it sort of felt like I actually said something. I actually done something, whether it's just been verbal, but it still felt good to release that. What was his reaction to that? He said, you sure look good. He said, you know, it's illness. If my grandfather was ill, you know, my grandparents had 12 kids and he molested every single daughter. It's disgusting, you know. And the sad thing is, they don't say or do anything. No one stepped up to the plate. And I was very angry with my mom throughout the years.  Why would you put me there?  But then if I fall asleep, they would put me in Ricky's bedroom. Not realizing, well, there's really no way out. Or maybe they did it. Who knows? But it's just gross. It's disgusting. Let's take a few steps back. You mentioned knowing you were female when you were very young. How did you come to that realization? Well, you know, I was close to a couple of girl cousins. And I just, we, there was a bond. It was in the white cousins. There really wasn't a bond as in they're all playing sports and all those things. I wanted Barbie dolls or red head Barbie dolls. I did. I realized in my cousin's scene, I have one red head Barbie doll. And I said, that's mine. Don't you lose it? Don't you touch it? Don't play with it until I come back.  You know, I think you just know. It's just one of those things. You ask anybody. People have asked me those questions too when I do the lectures at colleges, universities. How did you know? I'm asking you exactly the same question. How did you know you were a boy? You just did. It was just one of those things you just did. Who was Teddy? I don't remember. Teddy was a lost soul. An interesting fact though. That was my birth name for those of you who don't know. It wasn't that miserable. There's a couple of folks in this audience who knew me then and they're still with me today. I've lost so many people when I transitioned. But I'm very fortunate to have those with me today. And I learned through therapy. Don't dwell on the past. Be thankful for those with you around here. You know, and it's true. Because I used to always say, why can't this one be here? Why can't this one get? And it's more about be thankful for those who are here. And I think Teddy was one of those things that had no choice. And once my mom got diagnosed with lung cancer, I had a choice. I was going to be set free to become who I truly am meant to be. And I always said the day that she died is the day Teddy died. When we were preparing for this and talking about the topics we wanted to cover, you mentioned that your mother actually hadn't seen you perform as a woman. Am I correct in remembering that? Oh, God, yeah. Actually, my mom and I, like I said, that two years of living together, we became extremely close. I know, hard to believe, right? Sometimes you have to forgive and you have to sort of say, hey, look, see where they come from. And I started to learn so much about her abuse in the way she was thinking. And she never wanted a child. My father did. So she had this child that is different. It's like, oh my God. Now what do I do? I have this kid who says this is a girl. And I think through the years living together, people that she went to every single venue, I performed at. I've been performing 18 years this year. And at that time, every single venue she went to, all my friends knew her, but they knew Shirley, who was loving, sweet, kind, sort of a mom to them. And when she passed, I started talking vocally about what had happened to me and stuff. And I've lost a lot of people and they're like, how can you talk about your mother like that? Yeah. And I'm like, you had no idea what I went through. You know, I forgave her, but you don't forget. You know, we actually, I remember one of the times at the hospital, she was dying at St. Joe's and she held my hand and she says, I think I'm being punished for the way I treated you growing up. And I said, oh, we're not going to worry about that. That's the past. I love you. And it's more about just this time now. I try to just look at everything in a positive, no matter how negative things are. I think that's why I want to tell my story because there's many people out there who have went through this or know of and you're not alone, you know? I think that's an understatement. When was Angelique born? 1995. My boyfriend at the time. And again, one of the friends I had lost through this transition. He was my best friend. All said, let's dress up for Halloween. Honestly.  And I didn't start doing shows until I was 25 before the Halloween. And I was really terrified because I knew once I put on a wig and makeup and stuff, looking back at reflection, I was terrified of that just because my mom would not accept it or deal with it. And I didn't want to be like most girls who had to do things in private or run away because that's enough for a lot of people to think, why don't you just get away? When you're being abused and stuff, it's not that easy. It is easy for somebody on the outside looking in, but when you're in that situation, it's not. But it was Halloween 1995. I would go to the baton when I was 21. I was fascinated by Maya Douglas and Monica Monroe and because Maya does Grace Jones. My drag mom, Monica Monroe, did Annie Lennox so I was really in tune with them. I related, I connected, and I started talking to them. And Monica told me back then she goes, don't let anyone tell you when it's time for you to transition. You will know when it is time because I had a lot of people trying to force hormones and get laser treatments and that kind of stuff. Just do it, do it, do it. You look like a girl already. They were trying to make me and I was really afraid. I was terrified of my mother. Just terrified of her. So that's when Angelique started. I got spotted at Roscoe's by two of the managers from the baton club. They said, Teddy, is that you? I said, no, it's Norma Jean because that's my name. I was Norma Jean and I was Norma Jean for about six months. And so one night at a time when I was working there doing gaspons, there was about six or seven guys came up to me and said, oh Norma Jean I haven't seen you in a long time.  And they said, yeah, in Atlanta, I've never been to Atlanta. They said, yeah, we pulled it. I said, okay, no, you got the wrong girl. So Monica said, I think it's time to change your name. You're so Angelique. You're like an angel, you're unique. I went home and I wrote that out and I said angelique, unique and came up with Angelique. Is your drag mother Monica here this evening? I don't think so. I haven't seen Monica in a while. We used to work together. Well, if she were here, I would have asked for an introduction but I guess she isn't here. What significance has Marilyn been brought to you? Well, you know, a lot of people think it's the acting or what. I think it's the sense of being wanted and loved and accepted for you. She had a quality, she told stories with her photos and she looked different in every photo and I think, I'm not bragging, but I think we have that similarity in my pictures. When I take photos, I have photographers telling me you can see through the eyes the soul and I've always been fascinated with Marilyn. That's why my drag name was Norma Jean which was her real name. And then here, Monica took me under her wing and just happened her last name being Monroe. So I said, Angelique Monroe? That's it. I'm done. The Phil Donahue show had a tremendous impact upon you. For those who may not remember, Phil Donahue was a talk show host 100 years ago. Please tell us a little bit about that. Oh my God, I remember they would have drag performers on there from Vegas and prisoning stars, different characters and I was in awe. Never thinking I want to be like that. I want to do that. I was just really drawn towards it and then one day after school I would get home and it would be on, you know, like three o'clock or whatever and I remember the topic was about performers and transvestites, transsexuals. I said, what the hell's that? Oh my God, what is this? So my mom and I were watching it and this girl got under, she was a black lady and she said I was born in the wrong body, I'm transgender and I went, I was leaping off the chair. I was like, oh my God, I think I finally found a connection and I told my mother. I was around 17 at the time. I said, Mom, I think that's me, that's exactly me. I feel exactly the same way.  It was just really bad but I finally found a word. I found this trans world and I was trying to research it and see exactly. However, that's a huge umbrella. As most of you probably know, you have cross stressors, transvestites, all these people under this umbrella. So it was hard for me trying to say, that's me, that's me, that's me. I relate very well with a biological woman. I feel like I'm on the same page with them. So it's been really a bumpy road. If anyone asks me how I self-identify, I'm a woman. It just happens I was born transgender. Please tell us a bit about the lectures that you're delivering at schools. I actually started doing that. UIC is a huge one. All the medical health field and colleges and universities, I've done about six different ones throughout the years. And it's not only on trans issues, it's on HIV and AIDS as well. My cousin, she was diagnosed with AIDS in the mid-80s. That's the first real eye-opener experience It was really devastating, because back then it was death. It really was death. And she was a heroin addict. She was straight. Her husband was shooting up with a gentleman and had phybalonades. And she contacted it. And her husband couldn't handle it. New Year's Eve, 87, he killed himself. And so I tried. So I always told myself, if I ever was going to do anything, I would do the fundraising and whatnot in her honor. And I've been doing that for many years as well. So I can speak on trans issues. I can speak with HIV and AIDS. It's just never thinking throughout all those years that looking back, she died at 29. So looking back, it's like yesterday I could still see her. What response do you get from the audiences, to whom you speak? Well, you get a lot of different responses throughout the years I've got some. Now you're talking to interns, medical health people, social workers, case workers, anyone in the middle of the health field. And most of it is very cut and dry.  You know, of course I'm there and I'm just like, I'll answer anything, but still respect me, you know. So yeah, it's been interesting. Most of it's just like in the medical field, how have I been treated?  Which bathroom do you use? Hello, anyone knows that? The closest, yeah.  I've been sitting down since I was a kid. They don't get it. I think their focus is in this area and it's your brain. You cannot change the brain. You can alter the body parts of what that, if your brain says you're female, you're female. Please tell us a little bit about the day of remembrance that was in November. Yes, every November. And it's a day for, it's to remember transgender, predominantly women, but it's open to the community, male and female. And I have not, and I'm sort of just getting involved now with transgender issues and what not, just to embrace that part. So I have not really done much with them, but it's a lot of the abuse they encountered, the deaths caused by, you know, people being ignorant. So today to remember, our brothers and sisters who we lost. Do you do anything in particular to commemorate? I haven't yet. Now, working with Chicago House, I will be doing, I'm sure, a lot more. I was asked a couple years to do stuff actually here and the dates. I just, I was either booked or I just couldn't do it. So I will be doing more. What do you anticipate doing? Well, whatever they need. If they need me to host a show, do a number, you know, they still want to see this old lady perform. Can you believe that? I'm trying to stop all that performance stuff and they're like, oh, do a number. So as long as there's a need, if they want to see me, I'll be there. Whatever they need. I can see you with tits down on the floor. Here I am. You've alluded to this yet this evening, but I think there's a very pronounced difference between being gay and being transgender. Would you speak a little bit about that? That's also umbrellaed. Because there are some trans, I'm going to speak for trans women, some trans women who are lesbian. So it could be very confusing.   Like, well, why do you have to alter your body?  Why don't you just dress as a girl without taking it that next step? Well, hello. Transitioning means you're transitioning from one sex to another. I want to be complete. To me, it's not complete. You know, this in-between stage. So again, it goes back to your brain.    But it's true. And there's so many people who are bisexual and we can go on and on. You know, it's more, it's like stop worrying about things and just accept each other. And actually welcome that. The diversity and the uniqueness of who you are and, you know, embrace that. You know, I have a lot of friends who are straight and they say that I'm an inspiration to them because how vocal I am about many different things. And I have this one girl who's a really dear friend of mine. She says, you know, I'm in my 40s and I'm still trying to find myself. Here you are. You've met you all these different things. And she goes, I really look up to you. So see, it's not really a gay issue. It's a human issue. I think that's what we need to acknowledge that we're human. These labels, you know, everybody has a label. But I think if this world would just look at us as humans and embrace that, we'd be much better off. In building on that a little bit, when you began your transition process, how did your employer approach that situation? I worked 12 years in accounting. So I transitioned during that time. I remember when my mom got diagnosed with the lung cancer in 2004, I asked my doctor and therapist because when you try to commit suicide, you have to see a therapist for many years on drugs and everything. So I said, I really think I'm going to transition. The doctors say they get her between a year and five years. And I won't do until she passes, but I think I'm really going to do this. So I went into my employer when my mom passed away and I said, I'm going to start living my life as a woman. And they said, okay. And I went, what? But I think that's because the audience, the majority of the people I worked with were women. And they've been to shows and they saw me. I was never quiet about anything. I've always been very vocal about who I am and whatever. It helps. And I learned through therapy, let it out because I suffer from major depression so many years from everything I've been through. And I think that helped. At that time, it helped me through my job until I got a new boss. Then all of a sudden I got let go. But you can't. You can't discriminate. You can't prove it. They let go of fighting.  So it's hard to say. But besides that, they were very supportive. I left on a Friday with Teddy on there on my door. I came back on Monday and it said Angelique. Yeah. And I got hit a lot. Transitioning is a very involved process. Please talk to us a little bit about how that happens. Well, if you do it the right way. Transitioning the right way to me. I always said if I was going to do it the right way to me, it's seeking the doctor. Don't buy stuff off the streets. And a lot of the girls do. A lot of the girls buy it because it's cheaper. But you don't know what you're getting. You're not having a doctor to check on your vitals. You have to make sure the blood work and everything.  Or having silicone palm tear in there. I said I can't do that. I was terrified of that. But your body changes drastically in such a short period of time when you do start the hormones and laser treatment. Within the first three months, my breasts started growing. And my hips started growing.  My testicles started shrinking. Horrible pain for about a year and a half. And I would call the doctor. My doctor was in LA at the time. I would call him and say, oh my God, I'm in so much pain. I don't know what's happening.  I never claimed to be the brightest. When we were talking about this chat, I was shocked to hear that people bought things off the street as part of the transitioning process. Oh, you can get anything. Hips, tits, you can get anything you want. And still speechless. Are you fully physically transitioned? Come and find out. No, I haven't had bottom surgery yet. That's about $20,000, $25,000. But I plan on it. As soon as I can, I'm going to have it done. Hormones have been very good to me. They balanced me out. I actually feel like getting real quick in the first three months. My brain, I finally felt balanced out. And my body was accepting all the little curves. I got a lot more curves now than I did back then. I loved it. It felt like it was right. I was sort of feeling whole. However, when you take that shower and you get out of the shower from here up, it's fabulous. Here down, I go, oh, okay. You know, chop chop. Have you any regrets about transitioning? I should have done it sooner. I really regret leaving my home. I should have left all years ago. I should have left when my mom, I wouldn't say she tried to kill me.  That was such a bad episode. And then I do regret not leaving at that time. But then again, I might not be the same person I am today sitting here. I could have been really messed up, because most girls run away and then do the streets and all that stuff. I've never prostituted. I'm too tired and lazy for that. It's too much work. And again, I'm very picky. I could never do it. I'd be the worst hooker. I'm painfully low. Society has a negative image of transgendered people. Well, unfortunately, unfortunately, the trans girls and boys who are out there that others know of, it's all negative. I want to change that. I want to change people's views. You can come from all the work area, be abused, all this horrible, terrible stuff, and still be here and be somebody you can look up to. I wish I had that when I was growing up. And I think a lot of the girls are followers. I'm a leader. I've never been a follower. And a lot of the girls, and I can't blame them. You can't judge anybody.  Why are you doing these things? And I think with all of that, a lot of people's run-ins with trans folks are negative. I've had many people tell me, I didn't even know you were trans. And I've changed their views once they met me. And I think maybe that's my purpose in life. Maybe that's what I'm still doing here. Why I didn't die years ago, all that abuse, everything I went through. There's a reason, and maybe it's for people to open their eyes a little bit more and say, okay, this is okay. She's okay, she's just like anybody else. I think we're always looking for, oh, what's so different about this person? And everyone has a story. A lot of the girls I talk to, they've been abused and all these things. But that's the life they know. Like I knew all about the abuse.  And it's so hard to break that cycle. How are you going about depicting this change and leading this change? Well, that's a mission, I tell you. And it's just begun, I think, with working at Chicago House now. You know, I have a very itty-bitty small voice there, but I have a voice there. And Stan has been wonderful allowing me in. And I think, like he even admits, he goes, it's a win-win situation. That's his quoting Stan Sloan, the CEO of Chicago House, when they hired me. And he says, this is great. This is great because you're going to be such an inspiration to a lot of these girls. And, you know, I have chills. And it's true. And I meet with a lot of different folks there, you know. And they all pretty much say the same thing, like, thank you, just thank you. And I'm like, I didn't do anything. I'm just me. But a lot of times people just need to say, hey, look, you're not alone. You know, for whatever it may be. You know, many different levels. You're not alone. What advice have you for someone who might want to transition? Seek a doctor, first of all, and really know, ask yourself, is this really what you want to do? It's a, it doesn't happen overnight. I think some of the girls want it done really quick so they get pumped real quick. And they don't allow the hormones to work. So you have that and the hormones. So you have male and female hormones fighting each other. And a lot of that, you know, results in mood swings and a lot of bitchy behavior. And then, of course, you know, if you add to that with other drugs and whatnot, it could really mess you up. And that, you know, I think my advice would be go to a doctor, go to a therapist, go to a doctor that will monitor your hormonal levels and do it the right way and take your time. Because let's say, if you start a hormone, three, four months, and you go, oh, this is not for me. You can stop, things go back to normal. Or whatever normal is. But if you start getting pumped, you get breast, you get all these things done.   That's why you have to be on the rest of your life. That's another question I get all the time. Do you have a program on Chicago Gay TV? Please tell us a bit about that. Yes, I have my own TV talk show. It's called Week by Week with Eric and Angelique. I have a co-host, his name's Eric. We are in production now. It should be airing, I want to say, possibly February, March and soon. We are a variety show, and we're gonna have musical guests and different people, not only in the GLBT community, but in the world, we're not discriminating. We want to, you know, and what I love the most about it, they're not marketing it as a trans host. It's just Angelique, which I love that. As with Eric, which is great, because again, labels everywhere. We all have these labels, and why can't we just be looked at as ourselves? It should be a lot of fun. It's fun already, and we'll see how it turns out. People need to tune in. GayTVOnTheGo.com. It's web-based. So we'll look for that in February or March? Yeah, because we're just in production now. Wonderful. Please tell us a little bit about your show, what that atmosphere had the privilege of coming and seeing you perform. Diva. I love Diva. I have some divas here. Diva is fun. I've been hosting my own show throughout many years at different bars, currently it's at Atmosphere, like you said, and it's the first and third Sunday of the month. We do different themes. So we just had a Disney theme, which was awesome. So we do different things that you just, I call it old school drag. You know, you want top 40, you could get that anywhere. My shows, it's a little bit different. I have a rotating cast of six girls, and then we bring in new people. I have a fabulous bartender. I have an awesome co-host and DJ, and a great group of girls that I work with, and we're also bringing in drag kings. So we're mixing it up some. You know, it's going to be a lot of fun. It has been, it's just over a year, and it's a lot of fun. And the crowds, I just got, I think one of the greatest compliments this past show by a co-worker at Chicago House, she said, she felt like chairs, where everybody knows your name, and everyone's singing along and having a great time, and they'll definitely come back. So then that's what we want.  If you could go back in time to speak with Teddy, what would you tell him? The first thing that popped in my head is, I'm sorry, and I don't know why.  I still see him looking back at me sometimes. And just, it was a lost soul. You know? Just wanting to be loved and accepted. And I know, as Angelica, I'm very much loved and accepted. What's the biggest misconception about you? That I got my act together.  I think there's always something to learn, and yeah, I'm not perfect at all. Not in any way, you know? We all have flaws. And maybe that's what makes me unique, is because I don't believe my own press. You know, I've never been conceited. I'm very blessed and honored to still be sitting here in one piece, you know? I would like to thank you very much for being a part of our Chicago history. And I'd like to thank you for a great interview this evening. Thank you.