Hello and welcome to news click. Today we're going to discuss again the question about herd immunity and whether without vaccines herd immunity is possible. There have been articles, for example, which have been written recently that they will be moving towards herd immunity because numbers have gone, what is called set of positivity numbers have gone above 50% and so on. The question before you is a natural progress to herd immunity and this has come out again and again from the Barrington Declaration in the US by a certain set of people to now Professor Patel from Harvard also talking about in this vein, as well as various others that if you have sufficient number of infections in the country or in a place we will get herd immunity. This seems to neglect the fact that we do not know how long this immunity stays and arguments which we have discussed earlier that herd immunity is not possible is not enough that if we want to stop the pandemic will have we need vaccines. So when how do you see the landscape today with respect to this. So, as you point out probably this is the next page if you like of months old conversation, I won't say debate, because if I said debate, it would imply that there is enough evidence and data on the basis of which to have a substantive conversation. And the sad part is that there really isn't the cases of Manaus and Sao Paulo which you refer to as Amazonas the province of Amazonas in Brazil. So, the paper that you're referring to is actually not about Amazonas, it is about the city of Manaus and their own comparison in the paper is with the city of Sao Paulo. Okay. And there are really interesting differences there, which they use to make the argument that even with an extremely widespread infection, as many as two thirds of the community infected at one point they infer the infer. Cases and mortalities were still evident. So, in fact, the bottom line of the paper this past week or so in science at the paper actually makes the point that despite a high prevalence of infection. The case numbers and mortality figures were still very much in evidence as socio medical problems. And in fact there is a recurrence of the pandemic epidemic in Manaus. In fact, right now, oxygen cylinders are not available. The hospitals are full. Of course it's one of the relatively poor provinces and where there's a lot of poverty, people are closely living very close together and so on. So there's a basically all the social problems exist but they have now seen even after that earlier really high numbers, they're seeing again a recurrence of these numbers. So it would seem to indicate that actually if there was immunity, that immunity over a period of time may not be there with a lot of people. Absolutely. On the other hand, we have the repeated references to India and that after all is what we are going to be primarily interested in in these conversations. And where zero survey after zero survey nationwide zero surveys of all sorts nationwide zero surveys from the Indian Council of Medical Research, which takes a few samples in very large number of dispersed locations, or a zero survey that has been recently found from the Council of Scientific and Industrial Research where CSI employees and their families have been studied in all of those. The general interpreted claim is that infection is extremely widespread in India, yet our case numbers are as large as those rates of infection would seem to predict, and that we have had only one peak in September for infection our case numbers are now steadily falling, despite unchanged or improved testing and and so on and so forth. And therefore, our actual mortality rates as a fraction of infected people is far below the global average which seems to be about a quarter to a third of a percent, and our seems to be about a 10th of a percent. And therefore, the argument goes, Indians, whatever the idea of Indians, given all our disparities might mean in this context, Indians are resistant to the severe outcomes of COVID-19 and many of us are likely to be immune and therefore, our national vaccination program, the largest in the world for COVID-19 is effectively addressing an already vanquished foe to use some of the more dramatic imagery that has been proposed. The difficulty with this particular argument is underlined by the Manaus data that you refer to, which is that there is a great deal of noise of variation in the data. We've talked about variations in zero surveys in the past in these conversations, where in the same neighborhoods, one part of the neighborhood shows as low a figure as 30%, another part of the neighborhood shows another part of a municipal ward shows numbers as high as 70%. Clearly, coupled to the fact that the dispersal efficiency of this virus seems to be highly variable, unlike say the measles virus or unlike say the influenza virus, given all that, I think perhaps a certain amount of at least caution about interpreting small sample size data sets in macro sociological terms is in order. And if that we keep as a note of caution, then what the Manaus study couples as an additional caution is they're finding that there seems to be a waning of antibody responses in people who were exposed after a few months. And those really are the underpinnings for erring on the side of caution for not assuming large scale widespread protective immunity, leave alone the breakpoint of herd immunity where infection transmission effectively drops below levels that need to be worried about at the public health In all of this, it is important to be cautious. And therefore, I think that these calls for Oh, don't worry about the vaccine herd immunity is already kicked in and so on and so forth. Are premature and poorly founded on data to say the least. The other part, which is again results which are coming out that there are new variants that are appearing. Some of them are seem to be easily controlled, possibly by the vaccines we have. And we are talking about really the Moderna and the Pfizer by biotech vaccine, because those are the ones which seem to be at the moment more used in the advanced countries therefore more studied etc etc. But if you look at that, there is also the Pfizer biotech results which seem to show that against the South is particular variant which is now visible in South Africa could be another places as well. There is also Brazilian variant which also seems to be quite, quite similar that they that Pfizer vaccine did not produce a strong immune response, a weaker immune response will it be sufficient, not set question mark, but it did not produce as strong a response as the other, no other variants normally do. So, could it be that you will need tweaks to our back existing vaccines as well to meet variants. In fact, is it a part of the larger evolutionary struggle between the virus and us. So, your question again underlines my perpetual worry about the extremely sketchy quantities of evidence on the basis of which we make these facile interpretations. Satya, we are not scientists, we have to do with as a matter of course. Let's remind ourselves of the evidence. Moderna has claimed that they have tested vaccine blood serum samples and find that the three major variants that are under discussion at the moment, is the UK variant so called the so called South African variant and the so called Brazilian, well I don't think they've tested the so called Brazilian variant. But certainly the so called UK and South African variants they've tested and their vaccine samples provide protection. We don't know what the basis of this data assertion is. Let's keep that in mind as well. Biontech Pfizer have said that the so called UK variant is well protected against the so called South African variant, perhaps not quite as much but they are very cagey and cautious about what exactly they claim about it. Keep in mind that a proper public sector South African data set from Professor Penny Moore's group in South Africa has tested naturally infected people's blood against the UK and the South African variants, and finds that the South African so called variant is somewhat resistant to protection by blood samples from naturally infected people. All of this is a quantitative mess because keep in mind that what we are saying is it is less well protected, it is a little bit better protected and so on and so forth. What we are missing here, and I remind you of our conversations over these past months again, is that we have not been quantifying measuring amounts of the protective set of antibodies, either in naturally infected individuals or in vaccines. We have not been correlating the levels of protective antibodies, the actual quantitative levels of these protective antibodies with the extent of protection.  We don't have good evidence on any of this. What we seem to have at the moment is that a substantial amount of the virus circulating is still by and large amenable to most vaccine related immune responses. So should all of us be taking the first generation vaccines. Absolutely, yes. Do we expect that need will arise for next generation vaccines and again, I remind you of our conversations from the past, where we've said this is going to be only the first generation vaccines, we are going to be in light in all likelihood over the years, using next generation vaccine using next generation vaccines, either because vaccine mediated protection wins after a year or so, and or because the virus changes. And I think what we are seeing is the early days of that. So are we going to need variant vaccines absolutely yes. And should we therefore now rush into the judgment of saying, Oh, these old vaccines are not useful any longer now we need new vaccines. No, not at all. What we should do is take the current vaccines and demand that our governments across the board make provision for public interest public health vaccination on the one hand, and public interest public health. We are monitoring of immune responses so that we know the quantitative basis of all these claims and counterclaims much better than we currently taking a step back from what you said, let's put it this way, that we are not going to see vaccines which will give, at least not in the future, a lifetime protection, that is something that we can perhaps conclude that our immune response is not going to be lifelong to protect us against such infections. Secondly, the both the vaccines will change meaning improve what you call second generation, generation vaccines, but it's also possible, the virus will also change. So this would continue to be one of the diseases which are endemic, likely to be endemic unless you are lucky and it sort of goes away by miracle at some point, and the cycle of vaccination and low level endemic infection is likely to stay. This will join the various other diseases that we have as humanity, and this will add to that kitty. I'm beginning to sound like a broken record because I'm saying you will remember that many months ago, we had a conversation in which we came to the conclusion that the most likely out resolution of the pandemic was going to be that the disease will endemic that we will see smoldering, you know, a little low level transmission outbreaks here and there some with variant virus. We will make a quick vaccine against it, we will respond to it, we will bring it under control in the public health sense, but we will live with the virus, the virus will live with us. All said and done, this virus has three cousins who already live with us that we exchange through a common cold. There are three other coronavirus family members that give us the common cold amongst many, many other viruses that give us the common cold. So absolutely yes, in short. Well, that took a couple of hundred, maybe even a thousand years or so for the coronavirus to be tamed. Hopefully, this will be faster. I think the latest was supposed to be 150 150 years back that we got the coronavirus coming to human population. Hopefully, vaccination will give us a crash course by which we'll reach that stage for faster. But coming back Satyajit to perhaps the discussion that you'd have in the future, that all of this has brought out humanity, not just in the global south, that infectious disease has not gone away. The idea, which is the famous book that hotels have written the forgotten diseases that these are not forgotten diseases, the effect, they used to affect four to five billion people anyway because that was the global south, and now affect more than seven billion human population and coronavirus has shown that infection infectious diseases haven't gone away, and this will continue therefore in battle between the two, and we have to look at therefore public health and not an individualized medicine. This is something that I have to come back to you next week, because I think both in terms of the larger issues can the global economy recover, or can people's health recover. Both of these are connected to how we look at public health issues in the future. Thank you very much for being with us, and we hope to see you again next week. This is all the time we have for news click do keep watching news click and do visit our website.


Okay, what's going on? I wanted to do kind of a fireside chat kind of video just to update people with the kind of stuff I'm working on. I know I don't necessarily make it, you know, obvious what I'm doing. I guess I theoretically have a blog, but I haven't updated it recently. So I wanted to throw out a video just sort of telling you what I've been doing and what I'm going to be doing really soon. Now, some people watch my channel really care that I am going to be re... Oh, that's a weird way to say it.  It's always been sort of a rolling release, but there's going to be a larbs 2.0. If you don't know what that is, it's just a system I have that really auto-configures a kind of arched Linux setup that's similar to my own that I use on my computer. So I know a lot of you guys use it. A lot of you guys really like it. So that's going to be coming out for those of you who do use that or are interested. But even more than that, part of one of the things I wanted to add on that I think everyone can sort of benefit from is I've been working out basically tutorials. Well, here's my idea.  And it gives you a couple options of the different programs that are in the system. You can select which one you want to know about. And basically it's easy enough to make it stream a YouTube video. So if you want to learn how to use Ranger in larbs, you can just select Ranger and it'll actually stream a video from my YouTube site. So that's generally my idea. So what I'm going to do is actually have a kind of, it's not even a rehashing, but a series of videos on like every single program that I use that's a part of larbs, that's a part of my system, how I have them configured, not just how the program works in general, but how do, what kind of like bindings do I actually have? And of course this is I guess why people watch the channel anyway, but it's going to be especially good for people who use larbs. But it of course gives ideas to everyone else who uses the programs. So yeah, I'm planning on doing that. A lot of it is going to be, well not actually a lot. There's going to be some rehashing of videos I've done a long time ago. Like one of the first videos I put out was actually on Ranger, which people always ask about, people always want to know more about. But now I'm going to do a new video on that explaining how it works in my configurations now. Same thing on, I mean even things like I3 Blocks, I did a video on I3 Blocks just a couple months ago, but my setup has actually changed quite a deal, quite a great deal in the ensuing months. So I wanted to, I mean the thing about most of the videos I do on programs are like, I've been using it for a couple weeks, I really like it. I want to show people the kind of things you can do with it. But as more and more time passes, I actually refine that even more, but sometimes I don't actually want to put out a video on it just because it seems like I'm just retreading old ground. But with these videos made for larbs, I think that there's a good reason to actually throw everything out again. Even if that means like rehashing some things I've already talked about, for a lot of the, I mean, you know, 90% of my viewers have not seen my older videos, probably more than 90% actually. So even if it was just pure repetition, sorry, the cat is doing something weird over there, even if it was just pure repetition, it wouldn't matter. So that's that. Additionally, some other things, I mean in my more personal life, I guess, again, so I'm in a position in my life where the next year I still haven't really decided where I'm gonna be living. I'm looking at a couple apartments in different cities in Georgia and possibly Tennessee. So I still haven't totally decided where I'm going to live. I of course am dissertating. I'm writing a dissertation and there's really no requirement where I have to live. And I'm actually in an interesting part of my life in that like I have so many opportunities that you get to the point where you don't even want to make a decision because no matter what kind of decision you make, you're going to be, you know, losing opportunities in the fact that you're pursuing something as opposed to everything else. So I'm sort of procrastinating things, but you know, I'm still getting things done in the meantime. Now one of my longer term goals, of course, if you have been watching the channel for a while or see my posts elsewhere is, you know, I really want to buy some land of my own. You know, I've been actually looking at a whole bunch of parcels, mainly in Tennessee, but some in Georgia as well, where I can get a couple acres of land just to have for myself and, you know, maybe, you know, build a cabin, build other things on it. Just to have something that belongs to me and is permanent and I don't have to worry about rent or anything else. That's something I'm definitely willing to use money on. So I've been doing a lot of research recently in, you know, what kind of construction I need to do and stuff like that. Just to really have a place where I don't have to, you know, again, have a place that's going to last that isn't going to cost me that much money. I mean, when you really think about it, you know, buying a parcel of land for a couple acres in a semi-rural environment is sometimes can cost just as much as maybe three years of rent somewhere, you know what I mean? Or, you know, how much of a year of education costs in this country. So, you know, that's one of the things that, anyway, I just want to have my money going to something good. But anyway, in the meantime, I still am employed by the University of Arizona nominally. They don't particularly pay me that much because I'm a graduate student. So I am sort of looking for other jobs and stuff like that. Or at least if they, I'm not actively, but you know, I'll throw out an application to a community college every once in a while. But I mean, if anyone's watching this and once offered me a job, you're free to. But yeah, so like linguistics and psychology and sometimes even English positions, but possibly even something related to computers, I don't know, I guess. I don't have any, again, I don't have formal qualification, you know, qualifications in computer science or something like that. But you know, maybe the YouTube channel counts for something you would hope. So anyway, I guess I'm sort of rambling now, but that's about it. There are a couple other thoughts that I'll just throw out. I have been thinking of doing a podcast or something sort of like that just because I'd like to put out, I'd like to have another sort of mode of putting information and stuff like that out. The thing is, if I do do a podcast, well, there are two problems. Firstly, I wouldn't want to do it alone. I want to do it with someone else. But I don't particularly, there's no one out there right now. And this might sound a little arrogant, but there's no one out there. I can really, I really feel like, oh, yeah, I could definitely do a podcast with this guy or something like that. So I'm still sort of searching, I might run across someone in my real life that is open to it. And the other thing is I don't, if I do do a podcast, it's not going to be about Linux. I don't care about Linux or computers enough to yap about it for hours on end. So that wouldn't happen. I mean, I might tangentially talk about it or something like that. But I don't think it's a particularly, I don't really care that much about computers. But anyway, that's about it. So I guess I'm in the position of the video where I have to like bring it to a close. But yeah, I'll just turn it off. See you guys next time.


Everybody forced here ripping case number six of twenty one twenty two immaculate basketball hobby pick your team style on release day Andrew a with the Cavs Anthony C Lakers heat our cadius Nick Spohia B Clippers Brad K Hornets Chang S has the Wizards and Pacers Harper has the Grizzlies and T Wolves hang wide Nets Hilton the Thunder hero S Suns Jason F Rockets Kenneth G Celtics Lursak Pelicans Minsu K Bulls Morgan L Spurs Oran W Mavericks Ramin has the Nuggets and the Magic Rudy S 76ers Sean M Raptors Pistons Sean H Bucks waming H Hawks And blazers and jazz as well Jowen No Brandon a has the Warriors. Sorry Brandon and Xeru has the Kings. Good luck everybody. Let's go ahead and get started Yeah, we've had some really nice RPAs mom No crazy like low like one of ones. Yeah, but we've had like Kate RPAs Yeah, I mean we've had RPAs of a lot of big names Open to pull some like barns and like mobile. I haven't seen those guys yet. We haven't seen a Franz RPA either, but By the Luca Donetsch redemption to Do Some cool do a lot of redemption as well Yeah, 76ers Tyrese maxi six out of 49 this little red color match there It's going on tone trying to keep my sanity. That's what's going on having a great day on release day though Jersey card Raptors Fred Van Vleet numbered 75 out of 99 There you go game use of Vleetwood Mac as Brad would say as Brad's boy right there Team logo rookie jumbo patch Nick's miles and bride six at 25.  I hope so man Pistons prime Patrick Yadu Luca Garza 39 out of 50. Love the prime patches I know if I don't if I don't pull a logo man and then in the last You know four boxes in two cases and Sam's gonna pull one like first box tonight and Pardon me will die inside. I'll be happy forever hit forever hits the first logo man. If it's Sam, I will uh, I Will just be distraught I'm just kidding guys. I Hope I hope both of us pull logo man's prime Patrick Yadu Raptors Dalano Banton 1950 Love those There you go Bulls first I owe of the day is rookie introductions auto 90 of 99. I owe to Sunmoo Dude a Dr. J logo man I I Probably get chills pulling something like that. Yeah, she's different me timbers nice. I owe again rookie introductions Beautiful car design love these You go Chicago first I owe of the day first I owe auto at least Hey, Minsoo. What's up? And guys all PYT's are sold outside if we're looking for immaculate basketball PYT's check the schedule for tomorrow at daytime We have more than we have random styles tonight with Sam And we only have one case of impeccable football random division style left for today Just an FYI nighttime bunch of random styles of everything available That's awesome guys. Now. It's down to two actually down to two now. So only two spots left for daytime Thank you everybody we do have impeccable PYT's listed I think for it's either tomorrow or Friday that we have them up on the schedule, but yeah to find your preferred style You may have to just take the schedule for future days guys. It'd be like that sometimes Especially when pinini hits you with a three-piece combo on a Wednesday Luke and dodge it's base parallel 83 of 99 Mavericks Three-piece combo Sounds like a sounds like a nice Popeye's order Clippers Jersey card Paul George 97 of 99. There you go clips game-worn Jersey. Yeah, Michael. It's always great Three-color patch card Tyrese maxi six or 17 of 25 game used Hawks patch auto is on Yeka Okong with 35 out of 49 Three-color patch for the Hawks now to some nice some nice relics so far in this one. Yeah, that's a taste grade They're ready you're ready like that Nets sneaker swatch signatures Andre drum and I don't know why I stuttered there for a second Andre drum into 10 of 49 I Always think There you go sneaker relic that'll be game use for the Nets Andre drum and yeah sneaker swatch is one of the cooler cards and Immaculate as well And another rookie introduction signatures Kings Davion Mitchell 58 of 99 last team purchase for this case Nice hit Kings Davion Mitchell rookie introductions that probably will have to just go Yeah, the filler Will you feel to get to 40 mags? They're just hard to find like bigger mags Currently it's kind of Maggie. You don't use until like flawless baseball and like I make basketball come out Any immaculate really Cavs Darius Garland 62 of 99 Hawks Jersey car John Collins night or 32 of 99 rookie Jersey magic Franz Wagner 85 out of 99 Ronsie mow and Franz Kings past and present signatures Mitch Richmond 67 of 99 Immaculate ink for the Nets.  Yeah parking but hit some great cards KFC or fresh Publix? I'll go fresh Publix buy a hair for best fried chicken because I don't know if I've ever had KFC fresh I don't think it exists. They make one right in the morning and then it's just under the heat lamp all day Public fried chicken is definitely like I wouldn't put it at S tier I don't know if there is like a deli fried chicken. That's S tier, but it's what is it a tier? Would it be? Yeah for sure It's in the Popeyes and KFC range for sure You probably have to go to a Family-owned joint to get the s s tier You know The real way sorry southerners, but Korean fried chicken just better.  It's the first we've seen of him today Outside of like one rally card. I think earlier Jersey card Grizzlies jaren jackson jr. 6 of 99 Jj J Here you go. You're a Blake finally jumbo rally Jason Tatum 93 out of 99 C's the standard You know game worn Jason Tatum Celtics Rockets rookie inaugural ink oosman Garuba 5 of 25 in the red parallel We got a redemption on the back here. We'll see what that hopefully a big hit Shadowbot signatures for the Knicks Walt Frasier 49 of 49 Walt the vault Oh, so he's gonna destroy the Warriors Warriors or where is it? Yeah Curries back though, right? Yeah, we struggle against them. That is true Tough matchups and redemption Dennis Rodman and Mack little award winners auto. I Would assume bulls could be pistons though. It's possible. It could even be I mean, I've seen him on like what? He was on the Spurs once I think This one is gonna be this one is pistons immaculate award winners card number six. Yep Dennis Rodman Pistons on the worm here great piston and great bull He has two sets with pistons in this three sets of the bulls there you go Detroit Celtics always also shall go into the magic for some reason Good good things good good news for the Celtics the magic aren't gonna make a playoff. So I Don't want to be pessimistic.  Yeah He should he should I mean he should be a reserve for sure Rookie for the Nets is Kessler Edwards 82 of 99. He'd also just be fun to watch also again I think he'd do well in the all-star game Sun Jersey card game warren CP 364 of 99 Celtics are another team plays their comp. They'll like blow out some really good teams and they'll have like no struggling until KC Yeah, it's weird He's every team has a week their weak teams Jersey number patch Chris Middleton nine out of 12 game war nice card bucks That is a fire game war in Chris Middleton. I like to mag all of these just because of how big the frame is Like top loader is not enough Truly protect a card like that awesome Number patch there Harold and signatures for the Mavericks Mark Aguirre 43 of 49 green fried chicken. Oh, so good. So good RPA thunder Aaron Wiggins 76 out of 99 And up and Scores club auto for the Pelicans see J. McCollum 35 out of 49 love the scores club design, too I think it's the first one we've seen If I'm not mistaken McCollum Pelicans on the back of K6 Once that guys we will do a recap Still on the hunt for the first little man still on the hunt relics first CP3 Jason Tatum Jared Jackson jr. Franz Wagner John Collins Tyrese Maxi three color Paul George Fred van Leet autos now Mavericks mark Aguirre Detroit redemption this is pissens redemption Dennis Rodman. I'm a co-wordwinner is auto Who's one Garuba Rockets rookie auto? Walt Fraser Knicks Isaiah Jackson RPA to 10 for the Pacers God Mitch Richmond Kings the 99 Seth Curry for the Nets Rookie introductions Davion Mitchell Kings nice hit there and a patch auto and you go Kong Wu Hawks I Think that's supposed to be like the gold foil. It's hard to tell if it doesn't even look like See Jim McCollum to 49 for the or maybe it's sober in this I forget for the pelicans there I don't assume you rookie introductions bowls You got a RPA down of air prime Patrick you out of Dalano Banton Raptors Same with the Pistons here. Luca Garza RPA Aaron Wiggins thunder You had that game use number patch Middleton for the bucks to 12 Scotty Barnes to 49 Raptors nice parallel color match sneaker swatch Andre Jamin dotto to 49 Nets And miles and pride team logo rookie patch for the next at 25. That's gonna do it. Thanks again everybody. We've got more I'm at coming up


Hey, this is Christian Buckley with collab talk and we're here Talking about today's collab talk tweet jam. So talking about opportunities in the Microsoft ecosystem and specifically as being a partner in the Microsoft Channel and I've got Sharon with me. Hey, Sharon Hey, I'm Sharon Weaver. I'm the CEO of smarter consulting I'm an RD and an MCT and all kinds of other letters and I'm also a Microsoft partner So this is very relevant to me. Yeah, well, it's it's it's funny So I've been doing these for almost nine years now and generally July for those that aren't as familiar With the Microsoft ecosystem every July they have their partner conference and of course this was going to be my 11th year in a row of attending getting ready. I was excited to drive down to Vegas and Yeah, it was just it's a beautiful drive from where I am. It's not that far here Like five hours, maybe but beautiful parks on the way down But of course covid happened And so it all went virtual And so we'll talk about some of what we think got left out what what we're missing from having a virtual But uh, yeah, it was it we always have the the topic that's partner related in July So it's great Sharon to have you join me and let's kind of recap what we talked about online So the first first question we kick things off with so what are your key takeaways? From this year's Microsoft inspired conference and or the related announcements because there's always announcements Yeah, yeah, yeah, I mean, I think across the board, you know, it's kind of reading everybody's answers and Um across the board is just you know, everything's headed to the cloud And I think that you know, we've kind of been hanging on to some on-prem stuff and there's been a lot of Well, we're gonna have another version and we're gonna have another version And I think every single thing is more about just embracing that cloud is here. It's here to stay It's it's gotten beefy enough to be considered kind of solid under your feet So as a partner, you know, you really need to kind of embrace that and start building your business models around that idea Yeah, that's actually there's the part of every year as well. There's always announcements around various tools and messaging and resources that Microsoft makes available And it just isn't me or is it getting better Getting better the documentation. I think there's fantastic tools that are out there They especially since Microsoft a couple years ago woke up to uh, it's like oh adoption and engagement are important And training right and there's a training center and everything But they just started producing fantastic content now I think there's a lost opportunity there for partners to create a lot of that that but obviously there's Microsoft can't do everything. There's industry specific opportunities. You have to Right. Well, there's also you know, we have our deep expertise and our experience and in the uh In the channel out in various industries and with different clients and and so you want to go and Tailor that Microsoft content that make it relevant for your customers No, I definitely don't I mean, I think what they've done has been great from both a generic standpoint and it gives us somewhere to start But even like as a partner if I'm promoting something within an organization I'm going to tailor it more to what they need or if I'm training them I'm going to narrow it down and use screenshots out of their environment I'm not necessarily going to use all the Microsoft stuff anyways, but it gives me a really good place to start One thing one takeaway that I had from this They and we'll talk about this a little bit later with some of the other questions, but you know, how Incredibly difficult it is to Have an ad hoc Uh, you know a discovery of other partners We you're not walking across an expo hall and see somebody that you've not seen for five six years strike up a conversation next thing Like hey, we should partner together on something like It's much more difficult to do that kind of thing. There there were a lot of You know side rooms sidebar comments that are going conversations going on One other takeaway though is they had all the animal cams So did you participate in any of those dude? I did it and that's actually I mean one of the big things for this year I think from a thematic perspective is I'm just so slammed that I'm trying to squeeze it in You know because because guess what I didn't leave my house and go to a completely separate environment I know this is going to shock you. I still tried to do things during the event And so I ended up watching things after instead of keeping on track with everything which was a big difference And it's it's uh, yeah, it made for long days. I mean one one thing is there were a couple sessions, which I I cannot miss this I wasn't able to watch it the first one, but they uh Most of the core certainly the the keynotes but all the core topics They repeated three different times so that they had people from other time zones that were in there And of course you could go in and have the conversations and connect with people throughout You know each of those time zones So that was a nice feature but Again, I go back to like one of the the biggest benefits Of attending the inspired conference had nothing to do with the content being shared Like I would go to the keynotes and I I think in the decade Of attending that conference. I think I've gone to two sessions Other than the keynotes All those years because I spent all of my time In the expo hall in the country lounges Setting up meetings connecting with people Talking with the product teams Yeah, and we can watch things that are recorded later and get the information out of them What you can't get is that interaction with people, right? Okay, the question too this pertains specifically to satya's The the phrase that he was using in his keynote on day two But how is your tech intensity and how well are you or your customers weathering the current global economic climate? Yeah, so luckily one of my anchor clients. Um, we spent uh the bulk of 2019 migrating them from on-prem to 100 virtual in office 365 um And what's really interesting about them compared to some of the other clients that I have is that We had completely migrated them and in january we're doing training and we were kind of just tying up some loose ends And when covet hit And they were forced out of the building. They shut down everything. They sent everybody home Within a few days We were all Back to being fully productive in that group because they were already using teams on a regular basis They were already using office 365 on a regular basis. And so they had already put in that equity To make all of that happen As opposed to other people that I feel You know in in that change were kind of they moved out and then they went Oh Here's all of the things that were not connected and were not moved over that we need to think about And they were spending a lot of time kind of playing catch up Yeah, it's it's it's it's hard. So in tech intensity as well Satya described that as being kind of the evolution of business transformation I think you're right It forced a lot of companies Forced their hands to say hey, what does this actually look like? We've never experienced it to this degree What's missing? What's lacking from this? And so I'm sure you had a lot of policies been being written kind of in real time And and people realizing You know and those of us that work remotely for years Are realized that you know how reliant we are on bandwidth and all those other issues There's a sun spot and it goes down. I mean I went down Just before the tweet jam this morning lost my internet connection. Oh no I've got gig speeds here. I'm like everything just dropped out and like what's going on is freaking out was only down for Two three minutes, but it was enough to be interrupted things and You know, it's enough to uh, knowing I've got a full day kind of kind of freaked me out there for a second But uh, as far as that transformation, I think that the level the intensity that satya talked about In most organizations, it's increased because They've Again, they had to they had to react to this and figure out Hey, we're gonna be we may be doing this for a lot longer than we had a planned We need to put in the right policies make sure that we have the right technology Uh, and and so it's uh, you know people have been turning the burners up going at Faster speeds and even people who are not working remotely are really Starting to pay attention. I've got clients that are back in the office that are just like We need to get this solved because we've got stuff to do and we've got we've got people that need to go home We've got clients that are at home and and so they're they're I think feeling that That need for that as well. And so I think you know, we look at tech intensity I think it's at kind of a really high level right now Yeah, you know, I used to joke that uh, you know, again, I'm working remotely but with everybody else working remotely You know that there's the meetings have been spread out But it's like um, I Generally, I'm online. I'm on a first call sometimes like seven in the morning Generally by eight a.m. Some days it's solid I'm until like three or four in the afternoon just solid back to back to back solid Meetings and I was I say to my wife is like and she's like, you know, what does your day look like? I said, well, I've got like seven meetings After which I have to then get to work Right, right. That's it's it's difficult to uh to do that. You have to be Uh, it's kind of like with productivity where you have to be uh more selective about those things and what do we really need to accomplish And uh schedule shorter meetings. I think that's one important lesson That's been learned. We definitely do that. We short we schedule shorter meetings I you know, it's really funny because I've been working from home for a long time as well I've been very virtual for a long time and one of my big things is I always kind of ran through lunch You know, I'd grab a snack and I keep working through lunch and um with everything kind of changed the way it has I'm taking a lunch break every day Because I have to Stop staring at a screen for a certain amount of time Or my head's gonna explode So I stop at lunchtime and I literally leave my office and I go outside and I eat my food and I sit And on my deck and I relax for a little while And then I come back in and I have never taken a proper lunch probably in almost 10 years Yeah, so I just ate 30 minutes ago. It being almost 4 p.m But yeah, I I always say that it's a win if I'm able to shower before 1 p.m So it kind of rolls into question three So have your operations and or priorities changed if at all during the current global economic climate So does it change the way that you guys operate? Yeah, it's kind of turned us on our heads, right? I mean like because normally I spend a very large amount of time traveling and speaking in events and speaking at conferences Um, I do on-site training You know, and I spend a lot of I go to a lot of even local events. So if you think about user groups or committee meetings or Any of those types of things, right? We're so used to kind of running to all these different places and seeing different people and the travel that's involved with that And that all just kind of stopped and even though we have some virtual events and we have some virtual Connections, it's it's nowhere near the same. We're not getting the same Reach that we were getting that way before we're not building the same connections. We're not meeting people in different markets the way that we were People are not kind of coming out for a couple of hours and and having coffee or or grabbing lunch with us or things like that anymore And so we're having to definitely be a lot more intentional About every single thing that we do we we've put together, you know, a better marketing strategy and a better branding strategy We a better communication plan. We've got way more touch points than we had before Um, yeah, it's it's definitely completely changed the way that we interact and interface with not just our Leads of potential clients, but our our day-to-day clients as well Like i'm constantly making sure that i'm touching and talking to them and you know catching up with everybody somewhere That's an important distinction too is that you know and asking your partners and and your customers You know, is this enough? Are you getting the information that you need? Like I you know, we were on site You know at least once a week before and i've not seen you in three months four months What else could we be doing and and that's an important aspect? I think of of of all this internally as well as you know externally With your partners having that conversation on a regular basis of what could we be doing differently? How can we improve on this? Because I still believe that there's a lot of people that are just like We're almost through this and it's it's almost back to it normal. It's like I don't think so It's going to be changed dramatically. If not just permanently, you know across the board um, and so we need to uh, so you need to be Communicating about hey, this is what else can we do? I think it will go a long way and that of course the priority is for your business As you mentioned Not being able to go out and drive leads that way you have to get creative And it means that through the traditionally, you know, virtual ways of reaching out connecting with people But so are all of your competitors because that's all that they can do And so it makes it very crowded and noisy um, I mean going and running Increasing your spend your ad spend on facebook and linkedin or twitter or whatever wherever you're doing that You've got to be get a bit more creative Well on our top of that i'll tell you another kind of thing that happened that I really didn't even realize was happening But we identified in one of our last meetings that our target our target audience changed and we didn't even know that had happened So we simply converted what we had been doing in person to more of an online presence and more of a communication presence And what ended up happening is we started getting a really large influx of small medium-sized businesses Whereas before I had been pretty heavily medium to large-sized businesses All of a sudden all these little small medium-sized businesses started coming out of the woodwork and saying I need help too I mean of course they're using the same stuff. They they need the same help right? Yeah So yeah, it was really interesting seeing that that kind of pulled some additional Audience out of of that stuff as opposed to more the group. I was used to working with on a regular basis So I mean it's not it's a great thing. Just definitely different. Yep well question four kind of touches on The the primary themes of of the event in the the keynotes and and gavriela talked about it satya talked about it Question four is microsoft partners. How are you focusing on remote work? Business continuity And or cloud migration. So those are kind of the four big categories. I know so two two people They're in the collaboration space and I made this point this morning as well It's why it would be nice to have the diversity of the azure people on and kind of other areas within the microsoft ecosystem but the collaboration folks like We do we've been doing all four of those things our entire careers right are people doing stuff other than that Like I didn't you is is there another option? I mean I kind of feel like as a microsoft partner and if you're not already in that space and you're not already doing that I'm surprised first of all and there's a lot of catch-up That's going to have to happen and I think if you want to get into that space Just like everybody else did you're going to spend a lot of time on training and a lot of time on reading And a lot of time on researching to really understand, you know, kind of what's out there and also just diving in right it so a lot of this is just I download things and I turn things on and I start clicking buttons and then I go Watch the video to make sure that I know what's happening And I've gotten comfortable with a lot of those types of things because we've been using them for so long And now I feel like it's kind of our job and our obligation to now help people kind of come over and say Hey, we've been doing this for a while. It's good. It's safe. We know how it works. Let me help you get over here too Right, but you know, I made a comment. So on the cloud migration side of that because that's one where I I think that I think with all four of these categories, of course, there could be some people that feel Their hand was kind of forced. They need to go and react to this the cloud migration is something that Honestly, I don't remember the last time I ran into a company that was on prem only It's been a couple years since I've run into one and I'm sure they exist that they're out there Yeah, and hybrid, uh, you know There's going to be hybrids going to be around for a long time Um, you have a lot of the born in the cloud, you know, uh providers, but I think that more and more What's kind of this kind of fits in with business continuity as well as the migration Where I think this is again forced a lot of companies to go and look at every aspect of their business And say where are we falling down? And so there might have been areas where I'll just use a generic example like in you know, the the larger organization with an hr team and the support that they provided A lot of this stuff, you know, and they work very closely in person together And the the vendors that they use and the services that they provide to the company They're just used to being that in-house in-person You know capability and to go and move a lot of those other Operating systems in and to make sure the the the business is able to run smoothly and people are paid on time They get the benefit questions and You know, it's uh, it's just it is a very different way of of working. This isn't just a Hey everybody, we're going to be working remotely for a couple weeks.  We actually had a client who literally was checking PCs out Yeah, a few companies that have done that where I know other companies that have said, hey Here's dollars go and buy whatever you need that's missing from your home office And so somebody went bought a new camera and a mic and light setup with the money that was uh, that was expended so that And you're thinking about You're thinking about like vpn loads for the business and you know Can what we have support the amount of users that are trying to access things and and yeah And I think a lot of this kind of getting to that That whole digital transformation, which we've been talking about for years is more than just It's cool that we have cloud stuff. It's How does this encapsulate all of the needs that we have and and it's not an overnight type of thing It's there's a lot of different areas that have to be considered and tested and trained and governed more than anything Yep Well, it's it's uh, I know that Again for the stuff that I do the stuff that you do and for your clients Again, we touch on all those different areas. I mean remote work It's just the nature of the technology that we're experts on that we've been working with for decades But helping train people on what that actually means the business continuity is I mean, that's that's a It always had this conversation around backup And in archiving and people think oh, I did backup the disk He's like was the difference between having a backup Strategy in place or plan in place versus business continuity, which is literally, you know Hey, we've got the tape backups or whatever now what yeah What actually happens and do you have slas in place with your clients? Like what if you're out for two days? What how long does it take to restore those services? And how does that you imagine and what happens to the stuff that's happening while you're getting the backup restored If it takes four or five six days and there's still work happening, right? It's it's just it's a very different plan It's it's funny. It makes me Think back to conversation when I was You know part of the early office 365 team and my good friend Mike Watson You know, it was uh one of the engineers on the team and we were sitting and talking and I asked it I said Do we have a plan for for backup and for uh, uh, business continuity? And he uh, he said, you know, I don't think I've seen one and we both went and looked he's like We should write that Yeah, it's just uh, I'm just like I came in that was about a year into the team being in place And I was amazed that that didn't exist. But yeah That's why they hired people like me to do that. But uh, but the next question was How can companies better leverage technology innovation to drive business and societal outcomes for good? Yeah, that was kind of a loaded question. There was that's a really beefy question. That's like How can we solve world peace using technology? I only use technology for evil. You know that Sharon. We've talked about it That's that's my goal You know You know, I mean technology is kind of like money, right? Um good people do good things within a bad people do bad things with it I mean, that's really what boils down to it technology is just a tool that people use to do things and to solve problems And so I mean, I think number one you have to identify like what is it? We're trying to accomplish What's the pain point? What are we trying to solve and how are we going to try to solve it? The technology itself does not do anything the technology simply Helps us to you know more efficiently solve an existing problem in a way that makes sense, right? Right, so I think to do good things you have to have good goals and you have to say, okay What is it that we're trying to accomplish and how are we going to use our technology to get to that end goal? And I know one of the big topics right now is ADA compliance. Um, and what's really interesting is um I went to school and in my web design class. We had a blind guy. Yeah in web design Um, which was a really neat experience because I got to learn not only, you know How he used the tools to you know consume the material, but he was also designing with it as well Which was a really interesting concept And then I had a quadriplegic in my cohort for my bachelor's degree program Um, and that I uh partnered with several times on different projects and What's really interesting is that made a humongous mark on me Like I really learned a lot from that experience and then when I started training on SharePoint I started teaching people about the ADA compliance features that are in all of Microsoft products And how to use those to make sure that what you're doing Is not only solving the business problem, but is also accessible to the people around you Um, so it's just a big platform in mind if you want to really be able to make good in the world You know, don't just think about the the problem you're trying to solve But make sure that you are thinking about the problem holistically, right? I think there there are so many opportunities It um, so, you know Tracy vanerskiff and I have talked about Uh, for those that don't Tracy. She's she's awesome. Um her company the guid stuff crazy awesome She's out of the uh, uh, Johannesburg, South Africa area, but she's really into motorcycles So we've talked about we're just trying to find like get the timing right We were hoping to do it this year than this covid thing happened But to come over and get a bunch of people to sponsor her and microsoft jeff teeper had already said Hey, I would totally sponsor that Basically, she would ride around the western united states and go to Some of the reservations and underprivileged areas and teach kind of technology 101 One of the things that we can do. Yeah, it's it's go to some of these underserved areas And and give back directly to those communities. I mean, there's there's marketing dollars that are out there So it's not necessarily even dollars that need to be spent time needs to be spent, you know Give back our expertise on these technologies help them understand What they can do in low bandwidth areas the tools that are available for free You know the resources that are available to them. There's so many this is something else It's been kind of come out of this This this dark period that we're in All of the training resources and opportunities that are out there great content online learning programs A lot of them that will wave the fee or they've made the programs free and go to edx You could go into the some of the lynda.com content through linkedin And other resources Kind of plural site has some capabilities a lot of training companies that have these Resources out there. It's been, you know, it's a veritable cornucopia of opportunity of it And so I think we we need to do more step it up and Help people to understand that it's out there a lot of times one of the most common questions I hear is an mbp and rd is like, how do you keep up with everything? The reality is that none of us do we rely on each other And it's more it's about that community. So the more the people that we can get Plugged into the community And that we share. Hey, this is where I go for for news and updates around what's happening with technology Here's the training resources. Here's the people that I follow the blog post the podcast the video series around this And share what we've learned and what we know. I think is one of the best things we could do Maybe that's the way to answer this. I would answer this is Share more look for opportunities to share don't waste for somebody to ask Yes be proactive in your sharing Yeah, well, and I think people are always asking kind of what's next and where can I go for information? And and and what can I get? I know one of the things that we've been doing on my team is we've created We're starting to create these little short video tech tips Where we're just like, hey, here's a common problem. I had and here's how I solved it Every time I every time any of my employees come to me and say, oh my god. I have to show you this I'm like turn that into a tech tip. Yeah Yep. Well, that is we were talking about it. Like I've got a list I have a to-do list of all of those ideas It gets longer faster than I can take anything off of that I know I can't keep up with them. But yeah, absolutely. That's when you have to prioritize those things All right. Last two questions. I think a really big question It's really kind of the the the meat of where this the tweet jam today was was going So the sixth question was as Microsoft partners Where do you see the greatest opportunities for growth in the next two to three years? And I was looking for specifically, you know, like the technology areas where you really see like Some of those opportunities. So I'd love to get your your thoughts on that. Yeah I mean, I think there's kind of two answers to that, right? There's there is from the technology perspective You're going to start talking about things like the growth in teams and azure in terms of bots and AI and things like that And uh, and I think on the other side from the more soft and squishy side, um, you know, I was thinking more in terms of education um change management Support like just in general. So you think about migrations and helping the back to that tech tips thing, right? Um, I think, you know, there's the technology that has been there and is only getting better I don't I don't necessarily think that it's, you know changing in terms of there's a lot of new technology I just think we're kind of building on the stack that's been out there for a while That's really getting mature and really doing a lot of cool things and and able to do things that we want to do with it But I think now what's happening is we've We've kind of gotten past a little bit of that initial adoption hump where people are all starting to kind of dive into it And they're coming back and saying, okay, I've got it. Now. What do I do with it? You know, so it's things like training people on what they can do past the 101 stage It's understanding how they're going to use it to solve their problems It's supporting them to finish up getting from here to there or consolidating or understanding which license levels They need to be on. I probably spend half of my calls With users who are saying well, you know, what do I need to do about this? And I've got these four products and what's the right thing and how do I connect this this and this together in the Cloud and what makes sense from an architecture perspective? So I think I mean, I think the biggest opportunities are really going to be around tying the business process to the technology in the cloud And making that work as efficiently as possible and as economically as possible Um to help all of those businesses from kind of getting into sprawl of any sort Um so that they can afford what they've got and it's solving their problem and they know how to use it I think you imagine Everything you just described, you're right. It's where you can understand all those pieces Understand what your business needs understand the new technology is coming out But if you are really bad at change management Because one of the I think biggest opportunities for partners and it kind of touches kind of everything you just discussed is the Rate of change a rate of innovation new stuff that's coming out It's uh, I mean there are microsoft people that are complaining like this. This is so fast There's so much that's coming out You see that every week there's announcements as something that touches on and when you're using kind of the full stack and in different product areas across microsoft And it's a constant You know flood of changes coming in and organizations that can get good at that change management process Seeing what's new Understanding. Okay. Hey here to assess. Here's what we think the impact will be Here's our strategy for rolling this out train everybody on that I mean, there's there's tremendous opportunities for trainers for You know consultants to go in to help automate and all those kinds of things but Having people that are you know on the inside your business analyst your project managers if you've got change management specialists That can own that it's the overall governance of all of these moving parts That is going to be so critical to success going forward Well, it's it's the idea of being proactive instead of reactive You know, we've been reactive for so long in technology because you know a lot of times That's what you end up with i've had the system forever and I went through You know, whatever the last crash was and so i'm just reacting to that and i'm just continuing to keep that going Well, guess what in the you're kind of in a do-over where you've got the opportunity to set it all up right at the beginning And to be proactive. So why not take that opportunity right now and plan ahead It you know in the last question here Uh, and I was actually I know that there were uh, I know firsthand that there were a couple microsoft people That were lurking and really were interested in this question But what advice would you give to microsoft to improve their support for or interactions with partners and uh No one responded for like four minutes I know it's just like that. Yeah, and so I went with my one comment And and so i'll bring it up again and a few other people jumped in afterwards I need to go back through the log and uh, this is one of the the beauties of our sponsor for the tweet jams Of tigraph is that they provide all the the analytics around the events themselves and track the last tab in the power bi Stats that they provide and i'll provide a link that'll be in the description for the video and on the blog post as well But it has every single tweet and retweet that included the collab talk hashtag, of course So they could track it but so you could actually go back and read at your own speed Everything that anyone said during the one hour around each of those questions But my comment that I made was that um, and this is something that has come up with all of the online activities that we're doing All of these events whether you're doing a webinar yourself or you're doing a Community event where you've got multiple tracks that are going on The difficulty is that ad hoc Discovery process for peer-to-peer engagement It's really hard to do virtually and one of the things that I was waiting for from microsoft Was through the partner conference, which you've attended so you know it's the the connect tools And they've changed a little bit over the years But they've largely not really met the need of even the in-person meetings or events and And there was no mention of it no leveraging of that at all this year for the virtual microsoft inspire conference But connect allows you to go in you have as a as sales and marketing professionals as you know owners of businesses to have a profile to go in and discover other subject matter experts the product team people other vendors and partners Just around whatever you go find the thousands tens of thousands of people that are in the system And then connect to them hence the name and say reach out and say hey, are you going to be attending the event? You know can we meet in person and they had these connect tables these areas designated for these face-to-face meetings How do you replicate that online? I mean I I really was hoping for um with first with build and then especially with inspire And I've provided the feedback again, and I I don't know what I know that they're thinking of some other things for ignite um But that was sorely lacking. I think I I lost you there. You're frozen Oh, they're back He disappeared for a minute. Uh, yeah, uh, okay now. It just said uh, it's telling me now my internet connection is unstable Yeah, it's going there's so much construction right around here. So who knows what's going on sunspots or I mean It's just uh, it's probably the construction Who knows but uh, anyway, so My my where I left off. I know if you heard the end of that Was around, you know that microsoft needs to do something About connect about community. Well, it's about community and I mean so, you know, there's there's kind of the connect stuff And it's funny because I was actually in there the other day I was working with another microsoft partner and we were talking about kind of teaming up on some stuff And so we were actually and they're looking at stuff But I've been part of other software communities Outside of microsoft that have that kind of sense of here's everybody who uses this or who's everybody who's a partner of this particular tool And they've got, you know, kind of this community where everybody can kind of hang a virtual shingle out And you can see, you know Basically just search through it and you can look for, you know people who do certain things and whatnot That I think have, you know been much smaller Software companies, but have done a really good job of creating that kind of sense of community I definitely think that microsoft Has a lot of opportunity in that area in terms of providing value back to the partners Because I know as as a partner myself like I feel I was just saying Navigating the partner stuff is like navigating the licenses like, you know, it's great that the information's all out there But the problem is it's so kind of like Silo, you know, so it's like if I want to do this thing, here's this information If I want to do this thing, there's this information and there are some things that are passed But it's kind of like following this weird windy road and you keep figuring out that other stuff is there They had you known that to begin with you would have done done this other thing first and So the problem is is you don't know what you don't know until it opens up And I think it would be really helpful if it was kind of more of a streamlined approach of You know, if you want to be a partner, here's all the different information kind of up front in one place And and while you're going here are other partners that you can't associate with or you can reach out to or you can mentor with or Whatever it is, right? Um, so that you can build that community where everybody's kind of working together towards the same goal But yeah, I definitely think the partner center's got a lot of room for improvement. Um, I think that you know training and um Just materials I I've noticed this last year the materials have got a lot better Just like we talked about for the client stuff I feel like the partner materials are much better than they were before I'm starting to see a lot of powerpoint decks that have walkthroughs of do this and then this and then this and then this and that's been really nice And there's been a lot more content a lot more other resources that are available around The soft skill stuff like they've really stepped up their game Around you see more and more around the diversity inclusion stuff like basic skills of how does that work? And I think the it's been fantastic for the in-person events Having like the linkedin booths that where they'll actually meet with you and advise you on building out your profile And uh, they'll even take a new headshot. I think they did pictures last year, didn't they? Yeah, the last couple years that that's been there, which is fantastic Um, and I also got my linkedin socks that I wear a lot. Well, and once again, how does that get replicated in a virtual event? Right. I know how do you still get those same kind of value? Was it you that made the comment about there needs to be better partner swag sent out? Yes. Yes, it was me It's for sure me See, I mean, here's the thing like I know that swag is kind of a silly topic But it's funny because I'm actually on the board of another group and we're putting together a conference for this fall And one of the things they brought up is, you know, what are some of the things that you guys think would make this better? And I'm like, I think we need to send physical swag Because I think it doesn't have to be like a ton of it But I think people really look forward to the the silliness of the little takeaways And and when you don't get anything at all, it's just like well, okay that you know I don't have anything to remember it by and and I think for some people it doesn't matter so much But I think for some people that cup or or something they use on a regular basis is a really big deal to them You know, they don't Microsoft doesn't have to just throw money at this marketing without expecting something back They could actually say hey complete this detailed partner survey And in return will mail you a partner package, you know, is it exactly We'll use it right use it to get your partners to do tasks and and you know reward them with You know little tchotchkes or things that they can give away to their clients later Right, you know, it's uh, it's funny But if you look at the cost if you've ever done that kind of Research and gone out and paid for those kinds of services to get qualified Responses to survey for example to get that, you know, and research that data It's a lot less expensive to have a detailed survey do it yourself and to send with the mailing cost and the To put all this together Less expensive to do it than to go pay for those services and have a third party Capture that data for you, but yeah, I agree. I agree Well, it's uh, I think it's uh all good feedback for for microsoft, of course You know, we're we're in the evergreen model around the partner Environment as well within the partner ecosystem So it's not like we have to wait for Inspire to happen every july before we can provide feedback to back to microsoft And they are constantly looking at adjusting their their model And uh and are doing a better job. I think microsoft across the board the last five six years Has proven that they are listening to customers and partners. I still I still argue that they'll they listen to customers first Uh partner second mvp third Like you'd think that we would have like the ear, but I they You know microsoft is so focused on the people that are actually You know paying for software Driving this right they're looking for they're looking for volume. They like I group think right if I've got enough people Think in the same thing and that's probably where we need ahead And so that's a large the largest group to the next largest group to the next largest group So I think that's just part of it statistically. Maybe we need more weight Uh, we our our votes should should uh be double or triple what the customer votes are there there you go Yeah, but uh anything we can do to to feel more special. Yes We'll share and really appreciate your time today and uh people want to find out more about you get in touch with you How do they reach you? Yeah, just go to my website www.smarter-consulting.com all the information's out there or you can uh check out my website at sharing eweaver.com And you can also find sharing out linkedin have to throw that in there as well. Yeah linkedin twitter instagram You know just find when i'm on all the socials somewhere find or track her down you know All right, well, thanks a lot sharing for your time. We'll talk to you soon. Yeah, absolutely


I remember when I was super young as a weird owl, and I remember... Wait, like you're one of my favorite people now. Hey man, you never know, a bad, you know, a bad shallow loaf is good, right? Really good. So imagine the sauces you like. That's really good. That's gotta be your cell line. That's the tagline. Everybody, welcome to the show as always. This is a show about failure. It's about eff-ups. It's about not quite getting it right.  And then you're like, oh, dear Lord, what do I do now? And come all the way down. We're talking about the down parts today. Tonight, we're gonna be talking to Sid Santa, who had a career in the music industry and then in food and food trucks and now has his own hot sauce company. I'm a little nervous because I have heard that he's bringing hot sauce on the show and we'll just have to see what happens. Before we meet with Sid, we gotta find out what we're drinking tonight and Jack Sanders is gonna be making something delicious for us. Of course, Jack, what are we drinking tonight? Hey, thanks, Sean. I've got a beautiful drink tonight called Ye Olde Curiosity. The very first thing that we start with in this one is a little Agua de Bolivia. Made in Bolivia, distilled from 100% cocoa leaves. We use about a half ounce of that. Singani 63. Also Bolivian. Brandy made at Elevation. And we're gonna use an ounce of Singani 63. And then because we have to have it, 114 proof old granddad bourbon Kentucky straight. It's beautiful stuff here. An ounce and a half of that. Scrappy's aromatic bitters infused with vanilla bean, local Seattle company, four dashes. Scrappy's black lemon, limited run. Four dashes of that as well. And this is the fun part. Infusing the cocktail with a little smoke. Smoke in the glass, a quirk, the smoke in. And this is the part where I'm fused the cocktail with the smoke. Shake it around until the smoke begins to dissipate and disappear. And then we'll go into chilling the cocktail next. And then this will chill it and give it a little dilution. I give it about 25 seconds. And then we smoke the cocktail for its garnish itself. And in this case, I use a old pirate book for my crochet. This is ye old curiosity. Everybody, welcome to the show. I am here with Sid from Ballyhoo. Hot Sauce, Hot Sauce Company. Yeah, welcome to the show. Thanks for having me. Yeah, it's great to have you here. Tell me a little bit about, by the way, I don't know why I'm scared of Hot Sauce. Like, I know you brought Hot Sauce and I'm still nervous about it, but before we get there, tell me about Ballyhoo. My background's chef driven. I've been working in restaurants my whole life. Most of the stuff is kind of flavor forward, enhancing foods.   There's plenty of companies that do that and that's great. We're more of an everyday table kind of sauce. Thank you for not trying to kill people. I was like, that's a noble thing to do. Yeah, I do what I can. Did you say flavor forward? Yeah, so what does that mean? We're enhancing food. So instead of pouring something on your food and you taste it and it always tastes hot sauce, you like to marry flavors. So for example, like the Habanero Citrus goes really good with Indian food, Asian food, chicken and pork.  Tell me more about your background then. You say you came from restaurants as a chef. So before that, I was actually, I started in the music industry. Well, that's not the restaurant, like chef. Wait, way, way back. Like, how did you get into that? So I remember when I was super young, I saw Weird Owl and I remember, Wait, how far back do you wanna go? No, no, no, like you're leading into the music with Weird Owl. Like you're one of my favorite people now. So it's one of my first shows. I was like, you know, in elementary school, I remember seeing people with backstage passes. I have never seen them before. And I remember going to pizza plays across the venue. I was like, oh my God, those guys tour with the band. That's so crazy. You know, I just remember that setting in and then I read a book by Henry Rons called, Get in the Van. And Henry Rons, yeah, yeah, started a publishing company based on his birthday, I think. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. So I was obsessed with touring and then when I was like 18, I started, I was in a band.  I was like, yeah, sounds super fun. Yeah, sounds good. Working at a bar and like bartending and make like 200 bucks a night and then save up money so I can go and do my fun job of touring for three months and just traveling the country. And so one of the last bands I toured with, they were called The Used and the singer Burt was really into cooking. So on days off, we'd always cook together and so one day it just kinda came to a point where I'm like, well, I'm never gonna make money in the music industry. Let's try cooking. So I enrolled in culinary school and then I'm, you know. Wait, so you went from the music industry, last band you toured with was The Used. Yeah, and then you went into culinary school after that. Holy cow. Yeah, yeah. Like that's totally, it's kind of like getting up here, going back, going up here, coming down. So yeah, I just, I put every effort into culinary school because I have to paint it for myself and like I want to learn everything. So I hustled and again. So then there was a period in my life where I was like working 80 hours a week at two different restaurants, going to culinary school and staging. Do you know what staging means? No, what's staging? Staging is basically an internship at a restaurant.  So I was in Orange County, I was driving to LA, working for free at this Michelin star restaurant, just trying to learn as much as I can. Did that for a while, hustle, hustle, hustle. I mean, do, do, okay. So Michelin star, that's like really fancy restaurant. That's the big boy stuff. Do they do that a lot? Where you like, you're going to, like they have people come and work for free, just to learn a little bit.  Like the, the, the cooking industry used to be super punk rock. And you know, people would throw plates at you if you've been like, No way. Yeah, now, now. Wait, did you have, did you have a plate thrown at you? A thousand percent. No way. Like more than one? Oh yeah. Yeah. I mean, that's how you learn.  I think it was like a pasta that was like either under overcooked or something like that. And just like, this is garbage. Oh my God. Like the, like the, the, like kitchen nightmares, you know, Gordon Ramsay kind of stuff. Really? Yeah. So I said, get in the van was like the first book that launched me in music. Yeah. Kitchen Confidential was the book that got me into cooking. Yeah. And if you read that book, like they talk about the fear. But what's crazy is that Kitchen Confidential pushed you into cooking. Yeah. Like when you read that book, you're like, that sounds amazing. I want to be abused, right? Certain people are just built that way of like, let's, let's go. I want to be abused. Including me. Yeah. Yeah. Like in putting that stuff together. Yeah. Ended up moving to Seattle. I love fine dining when I came here and I got, I got two jobs. I got one job at a fine dining restaurant. And then I got another job that was just a fun job because I'm used to working so much. I was like, let's get two jobs. Yeah. I got this job at this dinky little Airstream trailer called Skillet. And we just flipped burgers there. Was that still, is that still around? Yes. Like it is. I mean, it's in the airport now. Wait, is it? Oh, it's in the airport now. Yeah. All right. It's like, it's like too high class. No, no. But it was in an Airstream when they originally started. Yeah, it was an Airstream trailer and we drove it around. Super punk rock. I just made it, made the stuff there. Yeah. And so that's how I got introduced to food trucks and I love. I have exciting news. What's that? We have a drink. Are you ready for the drink? I was ready for a drink. Yeah. You're like, why do I not have a drink already? I am so parched. Yeah, but you've got it, you've got it set. All right. Jack, don't look. All right. Cause I want it to be a surprise. All right. Because I can tell you right now that it's a little frightening for me. Is it coming in like a poblano peppers? I don't know, but it's definitely got like a, like a Vincent Price thing going on, I think. There it is. Look, it's in a, it's in a. What's in the box? What's in the box? Yeah. What you got in that box? Wow. What's in the box? I am so excited right now. Holy. I don't want to **** this up. You're going to get catch on fire. Oh, I took that in a weird way. Okay. Well, that's how bartender would take it. That's how a bartender would take it. That's an advanced drink grab. Oh, wait, wait, wait, wait. So what's, what's this on the inside right here? Is this a? So that is dehydrated lemon and then you've got a couple of Amarena Italian cherries. Love it. Okay. Cheers. Cheers. All right. Let's give this a shot. Dude, yeah. This is **** delicious. Thank you. Yeah, this is really good. Wow. Mm. I don't think I would like it, but the dehydrated lemon. Yeah, that's a lot. And it comes up and in, it's really great. Might fell in and added a bunch. Yeah, it added, oh, well, I want mine to go in. Like, oh, there it goes. Jump in there. There you go. Even better. God, this is the best show I've ever been on. I'm going to do a... Okay, quick. Sorry, I have a kind of a force-gump kind of life. I jump around. No kidding, right? No, no, no, but like working with bands and going from bands and then going to culinary school. This was kind of back in like, right when like Top Chef and all that stuff was getting real popular.  But no, I did not know how to like, like classically French cook at all. Yeah, from there you worked at the Airstream. Yep, yep. What was the name of the game? Skillet. Skillet that everybody knows and loves. Everyone in Seattle knows. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And then you had the other fancy place. So then from there, did you move on to other restaurants? So I moved on. So I just fell in love with food trucks. I fell in love with catering. You know, with cooking, like you never know what to expect, but you have to be right for everything. Yeah.  With catering, it's like, hey, you're 700 people. That's what they're ordered. You know what to bring. And you get tips as a cook, which is amazing. Yeah. So I just fell in love with catering. So I moved from skillet to another truck called Where You At Matt, which was a Creole food truck. And with there. Where you at, Matt? Where you at, Matt? Matt, do you like live in the life when it comes to food? Oh, yeah. OK, OK. So did, you know, po-boys, jambalaya, that kind of stuff.   Matt was really cool because he taught me how to do the catering sales and that kind of stuff, which kind of led me to going, OK, now I know everything. I know how to do front house. I know how to book catering. I know how to cook. I know how to change the oil in the generator. I knew everything about street food. I go, you know what, this time, let's do it. So I did myself. So you did yourself. You had your own food truck? I started my own food truck. No way. Yeah. Yeah, do you still have the food truck? I sold it, no. You sold it. OK, but OK, before we get to the selling project, what was the food truck? Bread and circuses. Well, you say circuses. Do you mean circus trapeze artist's circuses? Or is this Latin for something else that I don't care? This is Latin for something. So Brent's circuses basically was a land term that meant give the people what they want. OK, OK. Most food trucks, at least that I know in Seattle, you know what they are by their names. So it's like, grilled cheese experience. What do you think they serve? An experience. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And then you got blub-blub barbecue. You got this, you know, falafel.  I like to do Sri Lankan cooking. My chef loved doing Indian or Italian food. So we just like to mix it up. We never want to do the same menu every day. Yeah. Wait, did you serve bread? Nope. I mean, we had sandwiches, and we got that question a lot. But no. I'm here for the bread. Yeah. I wanted like a band name. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Jack, have you heard of any of these that we're talking about? I'm not going to lie.  I even got in an argument with my friend, because they spoke what I was feeling out loud. They're like, bread. And I was like, hey, man, you never know. A bad, you know, a bad chalo loaf is good. Bread. You know what I'm saying? Maybe there's another dish served in like unitards and maybe dancing and stuff. I think that's a cool concept. Yeah. Well, OK, so but you're not doing that anymore. Like you had the food truck. You had the stuff on there. Yep. I guess what's the story about you moving on? And also why did you move on? So let me give you a little analogy. With the food truck, it is so easy. There's about every day there's 1,000 things to remember. So did you feel the water? Did you feel the propane? You got gas? Did you get the French fries?  Blah, blah. So I would say like, as far as a business, I did 999 things right.  I got to be very careful about the way I word this. Oh, please do tell. I had a business partner that I started with.  And I just kind of forgot this one thing about having a business partner. And we were 50-50. Ultimately what happened was, if I can just learn anything from this, we didn't have an airtight contract. I was so excited to do my own thing. You just want to do it, right? I just want to make stuff happen. So we never sat down and go, OK, this is your job. This is my job. This is what happens when A happens, and then this is plan B. Dude, you lived on a bus for a little while. Yeah, exactly. So if I can give any recommendation to people starting businesses, and excitement's awesome, but just think about what the worst thing that can happen is and be prepared for that. So unfortunately, just me not thinking about it when we started cost me my business and cost me. I would not think about it at all. Like you're thinking about like quesadillas and hot dogs and cool stuff like that. It just really roughed me in this position. I'm like, I did everything right.  I miss birthdays with my kids. Right, right, right. And then he didn't do anything wrong. Like he was 50-50 and he was right to get it. But from the ashes, Ballyhoo Hot Sauce. So what made you want to go from that to Ballyhoo? Like why not just start another?  I wasn't allowed to start a food truck. To do the food truck again, right? So then you decided to go with something totally different. So my good friend Gavin, he works at a brewery called Black Raven in Redmond, our food truck would go there. And one day he comes up to me and he's like, hey man, you like hot sauce? I'm like, I'm brown, of course I like hot sauce. And so he gives me a little taste, like a little vial, put on my food and just I saw colors and flavors and like just changed my life. And we're all one in the universe. Exactly, and I run in. I'm like, dude, this is the best hot sauce I've ever had. So you know, he worked at a brewery and he's like, yeah, he was kind of. Oh, Jack's coming back. Sorry, all right, come back. Keep going. Dear Lord, how did you do that? Like he was coming to me first, but now it's coming. Cooking industry teaches you how to do that. Yeah, you totally got that down. Like I feel like I got it. Thank you, friend. Well played, well played. Oh no, no, no, no, no, no. He's an adult too. I picked up a new technique actually. Yeah, did you see that? Do you have a bucket? Look how bad I am. Yeah, so cool. Geez. So, so Gem gives me this hot sauce and I love it. I run in, I'm like, dude, this best hot sauce I've ever had. And he's like, yeah, I use kind of brewing techniques. I ferment this and blah, blah. And I go, dude, we need a bottle this someday. Wait, wait, wait, he would ferment things to go into the hot sauce? Yep, yep. Is that a typical thing? Is that a normal thing? Yeah, I mean, now it is, but like at the time, like I'm, you know, I don't want to say it. Like I've always loved hot sauce. I've always had a fridge for the hot sauce, you know. Admittedly, I think I'm like a Tabasco, like ch-la, something type of guy. Wait, I mean, there's different kinds of sauces for every kind of, you know, there's super hot stuff, there's creamy and stuff, there's stuff that goes great with eggs. There's a billion different things and I've never heard of these kind of techniques because I actually had a little like bite to it, like a little bubble to it and it was amazing. Wait, like a bubble to it? Like it's from the fermentation, you know? Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. It was crazy and just super fruity. Had a lot of lemon lime orange in it. And it just, I was shocked. That sounds amazing. And the cool thing about Gavin, he was in a band called This Providence, so like he toured a bunch and like, so we both came from music industry so we just kind of cut through the same cloth and I go, one day we're gonna bottle this. Like seven years later. So this is like long ago. Long ago, yeah. You had the food truck, everything else. There's always some back in my head and like I'm always hustling, I'm always doing different things but this is some back in my head. I get this opportunity and we're kind of working with Safeway with a food truck thing. And they go, hey, if you guys ever want to do a bottled product. Safeway with like the grocery store or Safeway? Yes, yeah. No way, okay, okay, okay. You want to hear a joke? Yeah, yeah. How do you fit an elephant in a Safeway bag? How do you feel an elephant in a Safeway bag? Take the S out of Safe and the F out of Way. Take the S out of, oh my God, how can I not figure this out? Take the S out of Safe, the F out of Way. But there isn't an F in Way. Boom. Okay, anyway. No, no camera. No camera. No camera. I like that you're patient with me. Yeah, okay, good. All right, I got your ammo. Yeah. Yeah. Anyway, this is the most beautiful thing ever. So I was, we're going to Showbox and I go, Gavin, we should meet up. He's like, yeah, I'm going to the Run Jules show tonight. I'm like, cool, we're in the kitchen. Come meet me backstage. No kidding, concert like set up. Like everybody like, you know all the, yeah, okay.  You want to start a hot sauce company? It's like, let's do it. That's it? That's it. You're backstage at Run Jules. That's amazing. And we started to get some hot sauce company. So you have to...  You got to manufacture it. I shot some emails to like, kind of bigger hot sauce companies in Seattle. And I was like, hey, can you show me how to do this? Cause like in the food truck industry, we all traded secrets. Wait, so you're going to start your own hot sauce company. And so you contact hot sauce companies to find out how to start your own hot sauce company. And they go, they responded very nicely. They go, why would we tell you? So, so kind of just to learn some stuff. I was like, you know, I'm really good at events. I put on Seattle hot sauce festival. And basically became friends with every hot sauce. So like, yeah, you're making it worth their while to be a friend with, don't get me wrong. I mean, I didn't do it for that reason.  You're not like, mech-a-velian. Like, but it just to be like, hey, I know I'm the new guy, but let me do some cool for you. Cause I know events and- And you know the industry. You know the people in the industry. So, and then everyone just really, and there was people that were cool with me beforehand. I want to say everyone was a d***. But like, and then people were like, and then the thing about hot sauce, it's like a beer thing. Like most breweries are cool with other breweries. So people liked us cause we're like, oh, our stuff's way hotter. So, you know, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.  Let me show up on, yeah, yeah, yeah. So we all become friends and like people kind of go, cool, here's how you get a distributor. Here's how you get a co-packer. Here's how you get to Whole Foods. That's amazing that they walk you through all that type of stuff, right? Yeah, I mean, it's just about being homies. And like, we got this amazing artist called Rich Hall. His name is Rich Hall from Tacoma.  We spent a lot of time on the design. Cause we want people to see our stuff on the store, in the shelves and be like, that's the one. And know, yeah. Coming from the circus background, from the food truck or stuff's names after circus theme. By the way, I love that you say coming from the circus background. I'm like, oh, you're Robin from Batman. That's amazing, yeah. But um, can I see one of them? Yes, check it out. All right, all right, all right, all right, all right. Oh, by the way. Sorry, you've got like a locked up elephant on this one here, is that what you guys said? There's a reason for that. Okay.  And I love doing a little research.  So like I said, our stuff is a circus theme. So there's literally like a glossary of circus themes that you would never know. So for example, a heat merchant is a guy that would call up the next city to promote the circus coming in town. They would call the heat merchant when they would call up. That was what they did? Yeah. And then a ballet who is when they did a figure eight over the audience with the lights. Like that's a ballet. That's called a ballet who. I had no idea. Boss Hossler is a guy that hangs up signs around the town. What? Yeah. So it's a little hidden secret of like, you might see this hot sauce and be like, this stuff's delicious. And or you can actually like Google it and find some stuff. And when you're really excited, you're just getting started. You're like, Oh my God, this is the best thing ever. I got ballet who were naming it after the right things. We're putting the brand together. We got a fantastic, by the way, fantastic artist. I'm putting everything together.  I'm used to doing food trucks. Like why am I like, was there ever a moment where you're like, no, no, no, no, no, I don't think this is the right thing to do. So here's the best thing I'm gonna give you. So with the food truck, I can book like a $10,000 gig. That's amazing. But now I gotta make it happen. Like I gotta find servers, I gotta find cooks, I gotta order the food, blah, blah, blah. With hot sauce, when you get to a certain point and you have a co-packer, you have a distributor, if the Seahawks call me tomorrow, they're like, Hey, we want 30,000 bottles. The Seahawks. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Or whatever. There's not the legwork with the food truck. It's, hey, co-packer, make it happen. The distributor make it happen. Yeah, they got the recipe, they have it set, yeah. With the food truck, I had to hustle and do all the hand-to-hand combat and then also cook and also get serves and also drive the truck. With this, I just gotta hustle and just meet people and be like, you know, and our favorite thing is collaboration. So for example, we just did a bunch of bottles with Yeager. So we did like Yeager in there. No way. All my good friends is a wrap here. Yeager in the hot sauce. In the hot sauce. Yep, yep. And you know, we're actually working with some bands doing like custom bottles for them. No way. We're working with a, I'm not allowed to say it yet, but a movie that was filmed in Astoria about 25 years ago, we're doing a custom bottle for them. I can't believe you just did that. I'm not gonna say that. That's awesome. Again, we do love grocery stores. We do love the hand-to-hand combat, but like, let's skip that. And instead of like me sitting in a booth in the hot sun trying to sell one bottle at a time, let's go big. Let's need to sell 5,000 bucks. Do you miss like the food truck stuff? Do you miss some of the conscious stuff? It seems like you were able to kind of marry all that stuff together. But I do miss talking to customers every day in the sense of like, with the food truck, I did that. I do, we do a lot of like beer festivals and you know, the Portland hot sauce fest where I get to talk to people and that's fun. It's different, but it's fun. Let's try some f***ing hot sauce. Okay, okay, okay, okay, okay. I'm super nervous, but I'm excited.  Oh yeah, I love hot sauce. Get over here. Do you really, you love hot sauce? Oh, I absolutely love hot sauce. Jack, grab a chair, get over here. Slide right in the middle. Yeah. Oh yeah. We're gonna turn this thing to infomercial real quick. Into it infomercial really quick. So we're like, value hot sauce. This is great, delicious. Yeah, okay, all right. So we're gonna start super mild. This is a jalapeno tomatillo. This is a jalapeno hot sauce and this is super mild. Super mild. Tomatillo is like the thing that looks like tomato and it's green and it's, yeah, okay. So you're actually getting a little sweetness from a pineapple in there. Awesome at breakfast, you can hold on to it. So kind of picture like a breakfast burrito, like really good with eggs, that kind of thing.  Just chill out. No, that's good. Yeah. Actually, that's really good. Yeah, it's good. It's like salsa verde. Yeah, exactly. But more flavor. But more flavor. This is a chili arbol. Arbol? Arbol. So it's like a smoky pepper. Goes great with everything, sorry. So really good with like burgers, tacos, pizzas, burgers, that kind of thing. Mm-hmm. Oh, it's really good. So imagine the sauces you like. That's really good. Yeah. That's gotta be your cell line, that's the tagline. You know, local, cheaper, better. That's our thing. Okay, what are we doing now? Cherry chipotle. So this is a funky one. Cherry chipotle. So really good with like lamb, beef, shawarma, falafel. What do you think? It's briny, reminds me of pickles. Really? Mm-hmm. Spicy pickles. That's really good. Starts off sweet and kind of neutral. All right, okay, you're right. You're right, it's not crazy. Cherry and smoke. So lastly, this is the one that started it all. This one right here? Yep. This one's the heat merchant. The heat merchant. The Habanero Citrus set, Gavin gave me about 10 years ago. I don't want you crying. He said habanero. So you get the habanero first, a little garlic, and then it's gonna wash over a little citrus. Okay, okay, okay. So Indian food, aged food, chicken pork. All right, that's really good. That's legitimately really, really good. That's not insane. That's a cry out there. No, right?  That's fantastic. So we, like I said, when we do these, we do the big hot sauce festivals. Thank you, brother. Thank you.  And they'll try it. It'll be like, cool, they have an arrow. And they're like, well, that's not really that hot. Yeah. So this year, we made another sauce. It's called the cool guy. And it's even better as it's for that guy. Yeah. There's the one that comes up and he's like, oh yeah, no, I can totally take it. Give me some Carolina Reaper. Garlic goes pepper sauce.  It's good and mustache. Yeah. And it backfired. No way. They loved it. So we had the Portland hot sauce fast.  It's like, hey, slave will say, let's go. And they're like, that's really good. I'll buy a bottle. I'm like, no, I love this. And I love how you were able to take. So you had, yeah, you had like a rough go. Like working through that and then having to change industries and change is never comfortable.   Thank you. Like I, yeah, I love it. Cheers, man. Cheers, brother. Like I'm trying to think of what else we say besides cheers, man. Yeah. You know, I think it's fantastic.   It was actually really good. And that's our show. That was a lot of fun. And if you like what you saw, or you want to see more or let's just say it's educational, then subscribe. Ring the bell. Ring the bell ding dong. And if you have a f*** up or something you think you could talk about with us, go to fups.com. Hope to see you on the show.