Premiums will be going down next year for Minnesotans who buy health insurance on their own. State regulators announced final rates of the individual health care market today. The average decreases are between health care plans range just over 7 percent to nearly 30 percent decrease. The dropping prices were expected after insurance companies indicated they would drop rates and preliminary filings this spring. Still it's welcome news in after several years of double-digit premium increases. This is the second year of stable or dropping health care premiums after Minnesota lawmakers created a $549 million reinsurance fund to help control costs. If you enjoyed this segment of Lakeland News, please consider making a tax-deductible contribution to Lakeland PBS.


thousand square feet of retail space 3000 of those feet that we will specifically designate as at a discount rate around 20 of the current market rate specifically to attract local retail merchants taxes we just just heard about taxes from the finance director this will make an impact for the city of dorm real property tax base of approximately 138 point six million i want to caveat these numbers by saying this is 2022 and you know evaluations of property going forward would be potentially be different or uh as as the city grows but it's it's uh it comes out to a tax revenue of 870 000 approximately and you can see there the the breakout in the departments where that money would flow as well as a annual total direct civity revenue of 926 000 which includes the property taxes above and about 30 000 and sales tax and 26 and motor vehicle and property tax once again um making sure you understand 2022 not necessarily what the value would be when the pollution happens these numbers these numbers come from uh an economic analysis that was passed on to the city that that we retained a third party to complete so that is available upon request if if anybody would like to see that other economic impacts this will take approximately three years to build three-ish years we estimate that that there will probably well over 700 jobs that will occur during that period of time with the workers that would uh construct the building and those workers will create an annual labor income of some 44 million plus after after completion we we have to manage the building and run the building we think probably around upwards of 29 maybe 30 people that would be employed directly for our property but we are estimating through our economic analysis third party partner that the individuals that will be living in the tower will generate additional jobs out into the retail and merchants that surround the building here in downtown Durham the restaurants the the merchants whatever retail those those folks will be spending money and they will drive a a larger base and we are we are estimating that that will result in in an additional 200 plus permanent jobs parking we will have 82 I think it I think it's actually going to push 84 uh just because of the slight arrangement rearrangement we had there that will be available for the public on the Morgan street level on the ground floor or p1 level of the west half of the deck so just just to be clear our intent is to take down um take down the west half of the parking deck there's an expansion joint that pretty much bisects the deck as it as it stands today we would take down that portion and build back up about six levels of parking on the first level there will be public parking like I said around around 84 that that will be bifurcated by a wall from the east half of the deck which will remain as it is today so after hours after normal hours on a week day those 82 or 84 spaces will remain but approximately 300 spaces will open up on the remaining east half of the deck so there'll be about 382 to 384 spaces available for public parking after normal business hours on weekdays and of course all weekend Saturdays and Sundays so that that's how we get to that number 80 80 to 84 on our side and then opening up with 300 on the remaining east side the parking the parking fees charge will be in in alignment with the newly established rates but in no event less than than those rates that were effective in July of this year in addition to that we recognize that we we and want to contribute to the enhancement of parking in downtown Durham and speaking with the venue owners one one major concern was when when folks park if it's not directly across the street in the Durham center deck as it is today they're parking in the Durham ID deck or the Chapel Hill deck or the Morgan Riegsby deck so we we have committed to construct a highly visible with great lighting and way finding a pathway directly through our deck so from Morgan Street to Rooney Street to the entrance of the Durham ID deck complete with directional signage and as I mentioned lighting that in addition to that down the south side of Morgan Street all the way to the Morgan Riegsby deck entrance we've committed to construct the proper way finding in accordance with code and working with the city and I think there is already some discussion around way finding down that side of the street anyway but regardless we're committed to build that construct that light it make sure that the signage is there so that when the patrons of of the arts come out from either the convention center or or the Carolina Theater or the Durham Arts Council they'll know exactly where they parked they'll know where to go they'll know what level they're on because it will be on their ticket it'll be painted colored colored accordingly so even though that's there today it's it's not blatantly obvious where you may have parked your car if you're not directly across the street we understand that so we we hope to make that easier and more comfortable and safer for the patrons coming out of those venues just as a reminder there there currently is about 1200 spaces in the Durham ID deck some of which have been designated as as public parking and there are some 600 spaces down at the Morgan Riegsby deck and I just wanted to show you one more one more slide here regarding what I was discussing there these arrows represent the pathway through this is an aerial shot the pathway through what will be we hope to be our deck on the on the west and east side and then wayfinding down the south side of Morgan Street in the right away toward the Morgan Riegsby deck just indicating there that we would hope that that would as I said enhance the experience safety and knowledge of where they may have parked their car in their comfort level for the folks coming out of those events so that that's that's essentially the the end of our presentation and we're certainly welcome any any questions you may have of us that we could help you with thank you sir do we have any questions from members of council may I protein followed by a councilwoman johnson thank you madam erin thank you for being here today good to see you gentlemen I remember um us meeting I don't know how long ago was was now about this project and it's come lots happened uh since then um I if I'm recall correctly I believe the the name the James is to honor your father I think if I recall Mr. Davis um so good to see you before us um very intriguing offer I have one process question to to staff and then I want to ask um the development team a question I know that if the city if we proactively decide we're going to sell something we will part of our due diligence would be getting a um an appraisal at what point in the process when someone comes to us and offers to buy us something what what threshold um in the development process is crossed before we actually get something appraised as a city spend our money to get it appraised when someone comes and offers to buy something from us yeah once again bill judge transportation um that can vary really at the discretion of staff or council or direction from the manager um as to when the city might engage the services of an appraiser in this particular case yeah once we were made aware of the offer because of sort of the unique ownership situation between the existing tower the air rights above the existing garage and the the city owning the garage um we did um the transportation work with general services to to have an appraisal conduct it but that's what he referred to as part of the combination of the two so so when they walk in the showroom we kind of make a determination who looks like a serious potential buyer as opposed to those just window shopping you don't have to answer that answer that um if if if this tower goes forward and I for the for a little while at least it will it will be the tallest structure um in Durham I believe 32 stories is the projected 32 if you go from street level 30 300 and 320 feet from an elevation standpoint from the street level got you all told right I I think one city center I think it's 27 stories if I if I recall so this this would and I don't know what you know our skyline is burgeoning and it's developing we'll know what it'll look like 20 years from now but at least for the time being for a little while it will be um uh uh de facto um the tallest thing in our skyline when you look at it and consider it and I and I'll tell you where I'm going um could you talk a little about what what the design element might look like you know there's some cities you don't need to you look at the picture of it you know that's whatever Philly or New York or or whatever and now and time and time again I've talked about our our efforts at branding ourselves as a city and when the government can exercise leverage over what our city looks like as opposed to cookie cutter kind of you know cities around the country um or the cookie cutter effect of cities could could you just talk a little bit about um and I you probably I if you don't know you don't know but what's it gonna look like yeah for a while it will be Durham if you give me to 30 seconds I can hand out a a rendering that I think would be very very helpful thank you if you would give that to the clerk please thanks and she'll vet it or yeah I'll take you through a spin of of where we were and where our architects and designers thank you much and and I'll proceed just a couple of other questions the the proffer to our affordable housing fund you said that number 650,000 or whatever it was that's correct you arrived at that through consultation with our staff um we arrived at that through internal conversation and then conversation with the staff about potentially what that would equate to in the number of units all right thank you Madam Mayor at this time I'll I had a couple of the questions but I'll yield at this time to colleagues I want to ingest a picture a little bit and uh as as this is a case with this count they may actually ask what I want to know so I might not need another round but I'll yield at this time thank you very much it's good to see you thank you Madam Mayor I'm trying to wrap my head around the legal status of this property currently could you explain a little bit more about or maybe someone could staff from staff about like what what do air rights mean in this context and like what because I'm I'm very confused I could use just a little explainer on what y'all have the right to do now based on air rights um and what rights the city has and like how how is this negotiation sort of legally situated good afternoon uh deputy city attorney fred lemar um that's a great question this this was a project that was um developed in the late to mid to late 80s and it's really a three-way type of development agreement where you have the two the city is owner of the land and air rights up to the top of the the deck or the um plaza and then there are air rights to each of the tower owners the original concept and development agreement was that there would be two towers identical to each other in fact that that arrangement cannot change without all three owners and when I say all three owners I mean the city as owner of the deck tower one owner which is the tower that's there and uh phantom tower just call it a phantom tower tower that's not there but all three parties have to agree on any change that would result in a design um that would not produce identical twin towers and um so for uh the developer in this case to do what he's proposing um we um they will need to completely rejigger and and change that entire arrangement and and one of those steps is the purchase of the city's rights in the deck um with the what was mentioned about the reservation of parking spaces in the final product um so that's uh I don't know if I'm we we cannot build the city has no right to build anything beyond the plaza and and so all our rights exist um within the deck to maintain and we're obligated to maintain and operate that deck and it's two tower owners that that have the rights to build above that okay but so so the tower owner that's coming to us today they only have the right to build an identical tower without our consent and the consent of the other tower owner correct okay so that's that's the only thing they could build without this process I'm sorry that's the only thing they could that's the only thing they could build without it's correct an identical tower okay okay and y'all don't want to do that clearly okay well we try not to go back backwards yeah to 1985 yeah probably probably not the best choice there um okay great thank you could you go back to your slide about parking yeah sure again this one right here or the enhancements um the parking one yeah thank you there are a lot of words on this slide and I feel like I just what I would like to know I mean up to 365 days a year could mean any number of days in the year right like are you writing this as kind of like uh are you trying to avoid making a commitment or is this is there some commitment no I can't I can't explain that the verbiage here uh was written probably six or seven months ago uh when just this piece was being discussed with the city attorney's office and our attorneys it is it is a bit um wordy so I'll just put it in very simple terms during the daytime uh on on the west half of the deck on the p1 level the morgan street level there will be 82 public parking spaces uh at night time there'll be 82 public parking spaces and on the weekends 82 public parking spaces on the east side of the tower which would if if our proposal goes through the owner of that tower and that part of the deck will have the tenants of the office building parking during the day in that half of the deck I'm sorry could is that the part of the deck that will remain that's currently owned by the city that's correct okay it so so your proposal is to buy the entire deck but there would be a negotiation with like are you are is your company going to own the whole deck or is the person the people who own the other tower going to own that half that's the the ladder so you're buying it from us and then selling half of it that's correct okay I'll be done in that same transaction so there's there's an agreement that uh after whatever time of day that is 530 ish that 300 spaces will open up and be available to the public on that side on every every given week day night and all weekend so that's what this is saying if it is not trying to avoid any commitment whatsoever it is committing that that that's what it will be okay great thank you that's I feel like that's not actually what this is saying it's it's it's admittedly tough tough wording uh be glad to put it in uh yeah not being a lawyer but how to put it in uh up to feels like a very clear hedge um okay great thank you um so how many is the difference in the number of parking spaces on on your side the smaller number because the residents of the tower will be taking up more like of the evening and weekend time than like the folks on the other side who just have office uh exactly okay because we we uh we certainly don't you know want to impact the rest of the parking in downtown Durham so the construction of six levels of parking on the west side of the deck which would be a new parking deck the five of those levels would have to be necessary to park the cars of the residents that will live in the tower okay um we've I mean we've gotten this is the thing that we've gotten the most concern about from folks in downtown I'm wondering maybe our staff could tell us their assessment as to whether they think this would cause parking issues or do we have enough capacity in these other decks to to accommodate folks for example coming to the Carolina Theater for a big event or to the Marriott for a big event yes um Bill John once again the um there is um adequate parking capacity now with the construction of the Morgan Riggsby deck as well as a number of other private decks that have occurred since the city constructed the Morgan Riggsby deck um as you mentioned the Durham ID there's been a number of private decks constructed on the south side of downtown near the American Tobacco campus so and the county's currently got two more decks under construction so so there is parking available the you know in terms of proximity to the Carolina Theater or convention center it might be a slightly further walk as he showed in that one exhibit but they're still within reasonable walk within you know compared to what is used for d-pack or Durham bulls they would be yeah similar shorter walks but longer than the day right thank you um so if there were to be like a big convention downtown everybody would be able to find a place to park they just might have to walk an extra block or two is your assessment yes for at least for the current convention center I guess if yeah assuming there was not a major increase in capacity okay great thank you um the other the other issue I wanted to ask you about is the affordable housing commitment why aren't those units going to be in the building itself why do you want to donate to locate them somewhere else you're building a lot of residential units it seems like having some affordable housing on site could be possible and would I think be preferable for us great question we we certainly looked at it but from an for us from an economic standpoint it's it's it's more advantageous for us to offer a contribution to the fund to to bill as housing as opposed to putting them in in that structure how much money do you think you're going to make on this project like what's your what's your profit prediction sorry do you mean in uh long term sure I mean like this this is a for-profit project what's the profit going to be for the cash flow I I don't I don't know that okay I don't know that Craig but I can I mean you're offering us five million dollars so presumably it's going to be a lot right well uh I guess I would say that we we are not a non-profit organization so we uh we're gonna we're gonna build it um we're gonna operate it and if we do it properly we hope we are going to be operating it as a at a profit right when you take all the expenses into account and the cost of the construction to build it right so without a number it's hard for me to to know for sure but I presume that you would still be able to make significant profits on this project if you were to locate some affordable housing units in the building do you think that's inaccurate uh I think it would be a push you think you would make no money if you put the six affordable housing units in the building rather than elsewhere in the city I'm I'm I'm not saying that I'm saying that the analysis of doing that would be would be difficult for us okay I it would be difficult for us to to make it work um if if we build the level of housing that we intend to build understood I I think I'll just communicate a strong preference for affordable housing on site given that affordable housing is a huge problem in our city and that downtown affordable housing is especially difficult for us to for us to provide and I I would like for y'all to consider doing that into to running the numbers and see and see what they look like I think that we while you know while building affordable housing elsewhere in the city is of course you know incredibly useful for us and we need affordable housing other places in the city I don't want to I don't want to set a precedent for situations like this in which we in which we have the authority the legal authority and ability to require community benefits like affordable housing on site because this is a sale in a negotiation rather than a rezoning which is more regulated by state law this kind of situation is one of the few opportunities that we have to actually demand significant community benefits from developers and I wouldn't want to set a precedent that we are entirely comfortable with just payments into the affordable housing fund when there could be affordable units on site especially with this kind of project where we're looking at a lot of residential development it's in my opinion it shouldn't be impossible for some of those units to be affordable and so I would like y'all to consider that as we move forward thank you thank thank you okay councilwoman johnson i'm sorry freeman thank you madam mayor I I really appreciate the line of questioning I was kind of headed in that direction as well just acknowledging that um we don't really need five million dollars but we do need the affordable housing and so I would love for you to have a conversation not just with yourselves but to also talk to some of our local affordable housing providers and to get a gist of how it might be able to work because I'd much rather have the housing than the dollars so um outside of that I also I just had a couple of questions I know I think I remember now the conversation and I remember having having some talk around creating some bike amenities and I didn't see any of that mentioned in this presentation no you didn't okay I'll just I'll just preface this next one remark by saying that um we we worked with staff for this presentation so it was kind of framed up for us okay I'll just say that okay we have uh we have a a tremendous amount of information that we could have thought but we were encouraged that perhaps we should just get to these salient points today in this particular working session that said um there'll absolutely be uh bike accommodations okay nice accommodations I mean there's going to be bike storage bike wash uh a mechanics of a a self mechanic shop within the structure to encourage the residents to maybe some of them won't even own a car I mean hopefully but yeah I mean you're talking to uh I'm an avid cyclist so I was certainly in there I just want to make sure the showers didn't get left out of the conversation as well but I I digress because I understand the question is really around I guess it's all it's coming down to the parking and and how dire the parking is in that area I wanted to know if parks and recs um staff I guess around the armory has weighed in around this parking at all if parks and recs uh staff around the armory I know that they use the facility is the only location really downtown that folks can afford to kind of rent is there any conversations so I am going to bring Keith Chadwell up uh who probably is a little bit more familiar with the meetings that were held with stakeholders there were the the proposed developer had meetings with some of the stakeholders in the area the specific question is the armory itself was parked and recreation under or or their representation in any of those stakeholder meetings they they they manage the armory uh Keith Chadwell again city manager's office I think if I'm hearing the question correctly the parks department has not to date been in any of the negotiations at this time um to the extent that you're making a reference to a parking facility that serves the armory that's not in the consideration that we've reached at this point in the negotiations okay I appreciate that it's it's from a capacity standpoint we throw that into an availability uh you know in terms of the relative uses and so that would that would have to be managed according to event calendars and schedules and I think that's my question that's my issue is that that is the last location really for folks to actually host an event in a downtown corridor and if we make their parking kind of a if and then but I don't like that at all but I just wanted to ask some on the transportation side um is there is this conversation limited to just this site as um as there's an opportunity I mean I'm looking at the tops of everything with this picture there's so much space um is this conversation limited in how we're talking about moving forward or I'd love to know what that would happen in the stakeholder meetings where the conversation is about what happens with the carolina theater the arts you know the art council uh I think on the corner there is is um I think it's got I can't call his last name may I may I speak just a moment first of all on the armory um although I I haven't mentioned that we've had we've had two um shall we say formal meetings with with the groups and the army uh was was represented I know in in at least in at least one of those conversations uh not necessarily in negotiations I that that that hasn't been the negotiating party but the army has been in in the conversation around parking I I I do know that and as far as space goes the the rendering that you're you're seeing is of course looking from the west with the new tower an amenity deck and then it drops off and everything east of that is exactly as it is today nothing else is touched outside of that boundary of morgan Morris Rooney and Foster and I think that's why I'm asking staff if there's a conversation um that I'm that might be happening with this with this along with this to make it more appealing in some way shape and form because as it sits you know just selling a piece of the parking lot for a tower with no affordable housing I'm trying to figure out why we're talking about this we're having the discussion and consideration from I think at this point from a perspective of diligence the the public facilities do not have specific reserved and assigned parking spaces dedicated to the facility in the current in the current spans of parking capacity there are decks and parking facilities that exist in the downtown area that have certain kinds of proximities it would be possible for example that during an event in one of those those spaces someone not going to that event could park in these in a given space and so the the nature of the discussions and the diligence at this point has been one of capacity in concert with the existence of a capacity conversation that exists if this had not been proposed and I hear you I appreciate that I understand like the you're basing it on where we are today and based on the capacity today but we all know that we're growing and we all know that the carolina theater needs parking and we all know that even the little shops on on morgan street need parking and as that continues to to evolve if 27 stories is coming up from morgan street and south bank is also coming up I mean it's just going to crowd if is there if there's a chance an opportunity to actually have the conversation about the entire block within there I would think that this would be the time to have it so that's I'll leave it at that yes ma'am thank you thank you madam ma'am I think my colleagues for a really important I think conversation I will say that in the past life before getting elected I was intimately involved with trying to get affordable units in downtown in the downtown court of the willard street project is I spent many hours and years as part of Durham can advocating for that project and one of the one of the draws of the willard street the successes of it is that it was in very close proximity to a transportation hub and one of the things we learn about affordable housing downtown is and I'm I'm including myself in this I think sometimes we we congratulate ourselves and pat ourselves on the back for putting affordable units downtown but if you have an affordable unit downtown and the person living there can't afford to shop downtown or eat downtown or buy a ticket at D pack and if we've put them in this neighborhood without having things in that neighborhood to support them that then that victory lap is short lived so I think we've got to have a much more comprehensive conversation and I've been part of that crowd that have congratulated ourselves for putting affordable housing downtown but I've learned some lessons as well you know it's a it's an interesting kind of a dilemma to look out your window and see D pack and not be able to afford a ticket at D pack or or or some of the restaurants downtown so I think this conversation has got to be broader another consideration I'm going to be making is that parking deck as it currently exists is it what are we realizing it from it now leaving it as a parking deck are we are we getting five million dollars worth of value out of it yearly now is it going to be five million yearly you know at at any time in the future I don't know maybe but but I think part of my consideration is what is it doing for us now and and what can we leverage out of it and do with that five million dollars I don't think that's an inappropriate question to ask I'm all for and I you know I I have literally been for affordable units downtown and mixed use developments but I've also learned some lessons about them as well and we've got to be honest and have a much more comprehensive conversation about when we insist on that type of initiative you know after we've signed the deal and after we've cut the ribbon and had the press conference the quality of life for those folks that are living in those units downtown is something we need to look at as well um finally I just question for the staff how is there how much more due diligence the staff have to do are there traffic impact studies or has this project or how long before staff will be ready to make a recommendation have we reached a point where this is at the council's uh behest now or how far away are we from that that threshold I think these conversations have been designed for an opportunity to hear the kind of input that we're getting now to bring this perspective into the other perspectives that have brought us to this point we will certainly take this um and and continue towards a point of final finalization where we'll consult first with the city manager about a recommendation and and it will come back accordingly thank you for that thank you madam air are you hi I just I'm sorry I just want some clarity in terms of did you say how many like I guess apartments are going to be in this tower 308 300 and then the other clarity is that you're saying the photo what housing would be offsite but offsite where the the proposal yeah the proposal is a contribution to the fund okay okay and then and you might not be able to answer this but in terms of those that tower of apartments that who do you who would you be marking to live there like what is the income level of the people that would be more going to to live there right it it will certainly be market rate and I think we by the fact that as all of us know some rather large corporations have announced their movement into the Durham area and we would certainly be focusing on the individuals probably that work in that in that level of income thank you thank you good afternoon thanks so much for the presentation thank you to my colleagues for the great questions um uh one of my questions in your PowerPoint slide and I just lost it so I apologize um also it's the same issue with this PowerPoint slide happened with the the previous one it's cut off so if staff could get the the full PowerPoint slide dimension sent us that would be helpful because we're kind of staff staff that they I know that's I know that's in their hands it's just I guess it's how it's being project it's on our end how we're viewing it there's nothing to do with you what you all sent um after completion it says 29 direct onsite permanent jobs in the city I know that you all have what what what type of jobs are you thinking what are the wages associated with it just curious so there are two components there one is the staff that it would take to actually manage our building and that would be all the way from from the concierge service to the leasing agents to any type of third party maintenance that we that we would have to have I mean this is this is a big building it has serious mechanical equipment so there'll be technical jobs associated with it as well I'm sure there'll be be honestly jobs of all level to be perfectly honest with you thank you um I just I I can't remember when we had you know and I don't remember everyone who who was in those meetings yeah I just want to reiterate what I said to you all in that space that unless you are prepared to actually do a responsive robust kind of community benefits package and I understand it might just be my vote and it's one of seven I don't have any real interest in furthering this conversation I understand that the Durham in the 80s had to take these kinds of deals we are not that city anymore and I expect our development community to come prepared for a really honest conversation the economic situation I appreciate Mayor Pro Tem saying you know the cost of the city what is it like to live in a downtown that you can't afford I think that's beyond that we're at a city almost every single place in the city that most people just can't afford and so it is a you know we as as the seven of us and other electives in the city just have to be really candid with our development community we expect a lot we're an extremely popular city uh you know supposedly Silicon Valley is dying and we're going to be the next place and so I want affordable housing in every single place I can manage to get it on this side of downtown there's only one other place that we can put affordable housing and that's the community development building that we own a lot of where we're looking is on the other side of downtown and I believe in a city and in a community where every single person every single income level can access it that is the beauty of an urban environment it's why I've chose to live in Durham it's why I like cities more than rural communities because I want to meet is the place the intersection where we interact we're different kinds of people are sometimes forced to interact and we can't isolate ourselves from one another and we don't get to isolate ourselves from the problems of other folks experience because we're all interacting in common space and so I'm really pushing back on you all and I was very candid with you all when we had that initial conversation I did not mince words and so I'm not mincing words today um uh that's where I stand thank you I kind of want to jump in a little bit before we go back around to some who and I hope that I gave everybody an opportunity to speak in these months uh the third property owner what is their position or whether we have not heard anything about their positioning in this and I understood you just say that because there are three owners we will all have to come together so is your plan to do what with that what is the third property owner saying at this point right we're working on a a development agreement with that party that would tie into this this offer and and the ownership so we we do have the support of that party I will I would definitely want to hear that I'm having a real hard time understanding the benefit to the city um we own that space we own very few spaces in downtown Durham right now we have ownership of 719 parking spaces in that building in that lot as I understand it and then we will lose those to have access to 300 parking spaces is that what would happen if we were to sell we would you would build six units six decks five of which would be for your residents residents one deck would be for public access and then the proposal is to also build additional spaces further away that we would only have the general public would only have access to no ma'am it's the first part of what you said is correct so on the on the first level of the west half of the deck would be public parking the east part of the deck that would remain as it as you see it today would be parking for office workers during normal business hours but would open up for the public after hours and on weekends we we are not proposing to to construct additional spaces uh elsewhere so we lose a lot of the parking that we already own you you do lose it but if you look at if you look at the um we had our engineering partners do a holistic study of this this issue in the surrounding quarter mile and if you look if you do look at it holistically the availability of public parking to bills point uh while back is actually growing another question that i have in terms of the actual units i believe i read somewhere where they're going to be one two and three bedrooms in studio that's correct now are they they for rent or own they all for rent all for rent i thought i remembered that to be correctly and you're looking at a rental unit at market rate um what what does that look like in terms of price 2025 your best guess for one bedroom market rate yeah 20 25 2500 to upwards of 7000 and so all your three bedrooms what would market rate look like that would be the high end and i think we have four that would that we have four of those four of those planned in the upper floors and that would be your 7000 a month and within that context i do have to go back to something i think um council woman johnson uh freeman and javier uh cabero kind of hit on is that i don't see why affordable housing could not be a part of that that just doesn't you you have to show me that mathematically okay where you could not make money that way i don't know that building more expensive housing i'm not convinced i don't know a lot about this but i'm not convinced that building 37 stories of more expensive housing helps our housing situation that we have now you you you will have folk who are coming in you can afford that housing right but most of people who are here now where we need affordable housing they would never be a part of this conversation so are we going to build as a city for the people that we have here now or the people that we anticipate will come it's my dilemma um and right now downtown is not affordable for a lot of folk that was not the case when i grew up here during their own town has turned into something different it was built back but it was not built back in a diverse way and i'm not interested in creating more of that and i'm not convinced that building more expensive will help our affordable housing issue or even have a diverse population of people down there downtown during right now is more segregated than i've ever seen it in my life and i live here i've always lived here and that is not a good thing thank you madame air i appreciate that um heartfelt comment and i think that's the direction that that's kind of troubling me because i felt like in our in our conversation there was more space for convert for kind of a collaboration than what we're hearing today and it's concerning if it feels like staff is pushing you away from a collaboration uh i want to have a conversation with staff and i'm also also trying to figure out um if we're if we're really looking at housing as a whole and really trying to increase housing for all people um the quality of life has to be the same as it is or similar for folks who are in affordable housing on east side of main street as it is on the west side and i don't see how excluding them from the west end of main street benefits us and so i really want to keep heart harkening back on if there isn't affordable housing on site it does feel like we're i mean it's not a community benefit and that's what's most hardest about this conversation today all right because i think that there was a lot i mean a lot of conversation around the bikes a lot of conversation about the chat like all of the things that i've heard folks in the city especially around the downtown core say that they needed could be incorporated into this and a more and it doesn't necessarily and i i want to be clear on site near site around site are all like very different words but we should be having a a more collaborative approach to how this happens and i want to say again that i'm looking at the tops of a lot of buildings there's a lot of square footage and they could also be going up so when you're talking about a pedestrian bridge what does that pedestrian bridge look like how does that incorporate other facilities so that there is also there is access for everyone and that's about it thank you yes you may thank you madam mayor and members of the council i did want to speak as you know as the city manager i wanted to highlight a few things that are important to this conversation today there's been discussions about this particular development for several years the reason that you see it in front of you today is because there's been activity in a very complicated transactional environment that both the private developer who is a partner to ownership interest on one site is on their own accord making an offer to the city to buy the city's rights and in this case the city's property and as well proceeding down the road for development to to have a development plan for a site that they don't actually have current access to or control over so they need to hear from this council in my opinion your thoughts because they are doing what they do in their business but ultimately you're going to be asked to decide about our interest as the city government in that property as as they go forward so this is a presentation is not an action item but i think they have people here who are listening to the conversation and it is very pertinent to the next steps in in this process so just one last thing one of the reasons you don't see you know some of the things you may have heard in one-on-one conversations you know those are certainly considerations in very extensive public private partnerships but we are not we're not down the road that far in my opinion at this very moment thank you madam mayor a couple of things a few things and i was going to start with i don't think we're at a point never we're making any decisions we as a council have heard several things from the community members from the venue members that we have to take in consideration today we're hearing things from you all's perspective and i guess after deliberation amongst us will you know come up with whatever leverage we want to employ and we'll present those and to my understanding we'll figure out where the middle ground is later on down the road or whatever and we could be a bit more forward on this because it's it's not an annexation or a land use matter it's a it's a negotiation of a transaction and i'm listening to my colleagues my beloved colleagues and from an economic perspective i want to just put this out there um i do not want another mcdougal terrace or cornwall is built because i don't feel that our folks deserve that that's a public housing complex the projects however i do believe affordability or affordable housing in some capacity former fashion needs to be incorporated in every single thing we do now whether that's building the actual units or contributing to it that's up to us to determine but when we're thinking about all of the issues that we are addressing we also have to think about how we make those things become a reality and i saw this really cool tiktok video of uh this youngster explaining affordable housing and they talked about building you know it's like all of these folks were moving to a city and everyone moved to that city and they were making really really really lots of money and they came in because that city that municipality's government was like stop moving here and it wasn't happening people kept moving that municipality was getting a lot of jobs and people kept moving in and that municipality wanted to slow it down and wanted to just stop it and what happened was they couldn't stop the people moving there so they started buying up everything that they could get and then the next thing you know you have an employee at apple making 189 thousand dollars a year competing with the person who's on public assistance because we've we've restricted the supply and now we're having a conversation about almost the same thing and uh and please guys this is not a swipe of 80 by this is a really rich debate uh discussion here um folks are going to move here and if we don't build something where those salaries are reflective then the folks who are placed where they are are going to get replaced and that is the issue we're dealing with there are folks that have been living in their homes for decades and there are folks that are actually living in their homes that are getting evicted because of taxes not because of mortgages because the taxes around them are increasing and I feel as though we're on a we're on a we we're stating our concerns about affordability but we're stopping the very thing that addresses the affordability crisis and we can't have a housing affordable housing crisis conversation without having the affordability crisis conversation and you know some of the questions I have is what is the parking deck making us right now I think one of you all asked that earlier uh the other matter is by right you know it's like okay so we own it we have the parking deck uh you know what are we going to do with it are we going to leave it the same you know or are we going to do something with it ourselves if we can you know um and then I look at the lots around and I'm like well we have a lot of growth to do on our end too on property we own because there's a lot of surface lots that are just sitting there uh that we could take advantage of uh and to me the conversation is bigger than one applicant and that's why I just waited to listen to all of the comments uh because I wanted to see where we went with it and you know affordable housing seems to have evolved into a cliche phrase we don't even talk about what type of affordability we don't even talk about affordable to who that's a very subjective phrase that we just pay with a broad stroke all the time and affordable housing are the things that we have issued with in regards to you know uh social services affordable housing doesn't pay for it it doesn't and my biggest fear is okay there's rent for seven thousand you'll never see me living there I just can't afford that but I know that there is about 14 14 thousand people that are moving to the area for one company that can and I don't want them going into neighborhoods taking what people already have because what we're not talking about is the folks who own properties and other people are renting them at a lower wage and then they get that offer that quadruple is what it's worth and they sell and then that person is out on the streets and we're saying well what about the people who can't afford it and the question is I'm sorry you know not not the question but the answer is I stopped them from getting this so they took yours and that is our reality and it has to go we have to have this conversation much more in depth I'm so excited about tomorrow's deep dive because we have to start having more we have to incorporate economic development in its basics fundamentals in these conversations so I I'm all for affordable housing because we definitely need it we have a crisis on our hands but if we don't start building we're gonna have people displaced even more at alarming rates anybody else well matter just in closing um because this is a negotiation of a transaction I am looking forward I think the most valid point I heard was what is the what is the community benefit that package I look forward to you all taking what we're saying today and then coming back and saying this is how we want to wove ourselves into the fabric of the city right now it's from your perspective and it's just a block of exclusivity that's been placed here and that's okay that's for that's business but it's also okay for us in our capacity to say whatever you want to consider this first of all first of all we appreciate everyone's comments this transaction has taken a number of years because of the complexity of what Fred Lamar told you earlier there were three parties to the agreement it was supposed to be something else the markets all changed the easement agreement that's currently in place is very restrictive in each one of the players parcels we were able to collaborate not only with our adjacent property owner which I happen to be the person who led the charge and buying that building and renovating it and getting it into the position that DCRI could be there DCRI then that was an experiment to see if in fact they could move various people from Duke University downtown and that experiment worked and then as a adjunct to that you saw there are my D and I made the decision when that happened not to turn this parcel because we had bought this parcel air rights I committed to not build office but to build housing because we needed it and so putting together the pieces of the puzzle dealing with all the attributes in and around a growing vibrant city a very productive kind of push towards economic development has been tremendously successful so being able to accomplish what we're trying we're all talking about here is our goal from the venue owners to the red to the residential play to affordable housing to restaurants you know I just got back from Chicago which is a benchmark of of some of the attributes that we have tried to incorporate in this building actually the investors with me on this are two larger players in Chicago and so the equity from this for the project is there we're in process dealing with the debt piece of it but we hear you we will we have had in fact on Friday of last week with the venue owners we had a very I thought robust and good conversation there are differences between the groups but from from the ability to get high quality development in this magnitude I mean you're talking 10 years ago seven years ago all of us would not have thought that this type of a venue could occur so we we've listened we've heard we've proposed something we'll digest what you have that's why these work sessions are so important and we'll interact between us all and we'll be back to you if that if that's okay just just one of the factors I forgot to mention is you know we are losing a significant amount of parking right across from venues that generate a lot of revenue for the city and I would like you to consider how you can I don't I'm not a developer so I don't know if you can go higher or whatever address the parking matter as best as you can to your ability um that I'd like you to consider that as you're listening to all of what we're saying um I and my my biggest concern around that is the Carolina theater has a lot of um they have a lot of performances that attract sort of like deep it's like not not just young kids going over there you have a lot of folks that need to be closer in proximity so just consider consider that as we uh talk about the parking situation thank you I'm gonna get some clarity for the attorney for for one second give me a moment before I make some final comments I did want to address and have talked with the attorney um about protocol for people who have signed up um to speak on this item it's a presentation so public comment is normally not a protocol at this particular juncture but if we were to come to some type of an agreement with the developers then it would be more appropriate then I'll let you explain that all right that's correct mayor if hearing what the developer has said it sounds like they're gonna go back and look at the deal more closely if if something ultimately needs to be approved by council that would need to be put on a future agenda and so we there'd be a work session before it got considered at a Monday night meeting so I think that would be the appropriate time to take comment right so we would ask the two participants who have um about two residents who have signed up to speak on these items if you would uh be prepared to speak when it comes before the council on a Monday night on a no this was just a presentation right once it becomes in a full-fledged agenda item it would be appropriate to speak at that work session at that work session thank you all right I just um I am very impressed with the rendering of this and it looks it looks really good and we hope that you know we can figure out a way to figure out how we all win but it's important I think if we have an asset that we have some public benefit that we can articulate and know coming out the gate that we are going to put our uh residents in a position that they can win people are already moving here that are making those salaries I heard a story the other day about the man that put his house up for sale and carry um there was $9.2 million that he's moving in downtown Durham and that's what's happening he's buying a condo in downtown Durham we already have those spaces we have them they're coming and we want people to come but I don't know that the answer is you build more of that without taking into real consideration how much you built on the other end we we heard about what's going on out um on Leesville Road there are lots of houses out there that have been built in the last three to five years but most people who are living in the city can't afford those houses right that are here now and I think that I don't and hopefully in our deep dive we'll get it into it tomorrow but if that was the problem why are we still in an affordable housing situation if we continue to build more and more expensive things why why why do we have an affordability problem and I'm just not sure about that so I'm I'm waiting to to hear how we figure all these great things out it's a great concept I love the rendering of it but I'm just not convinced of the public benefit at this point so with that being said we moved to our boards and commissions and task force nominations I'll look thank you thanks very much thank you I'm sorry all right thank you so much there is a story behind the architecture but I gotta say that to another time thank you so much thank you very much I'm determined that we don't get out of here in the time of fashion as my thank you mayor um the council has nominated Nancy Livea Ramos and Merylis Mercado Emerson to the mayor's Hispanic Latino committee Dane Willis to the workers rights commission and Mamie F web blood so to the Durham housing authority board of trustees all right thank you so much for that we are now turning to selling of our agenda so I'll turn to our city manager thank you madam mayor for your consent agenda I have items one through three item five through seven items nine through 26 and items 28 through 30 for the general business agenda we have item 27 and for the general business agenda public hearings we have items 33 through 37 thank you so much point of clarification madam mayor sure um I wanted to ask councilman macabre for the um item 27 are you or do you need staff to do any additional work or bring anything I I get that I don't know if you wanted to report back on anything okay thank you all right is there a motion uh to settle our agenda for a move second the move by councilwoman Freeman seconded by councilman Williams now we will conduct our usual hand vote all those in favor time I say no reason to live in all those opposed have the same right seeing none that motion passes unanimously are there any other items to come before the council madam mayor I missed this in the beginning due to my tardiness but uh there is going to be uh the Durham success summit this weekend where there are going to be lots of uh young men of color that will be convening over uh just some positive things that are happening in Durham um and I'm excited to serve as a panelist with former mayor bill bill um and also another great event that's going to be engaging our uh our uh millennial generation in voting is the uh sneakerville uh festival with brian dawson i'll also serve as a panelist there to talk about uh voter engagement thank you so much i'll see you there at that event on saturday i think i'm supposed to bring the welcome to that event so i'll see you there are there any other announcements all right seeing none we will stand adjourned at five oh two on september the ninth twenty twenty two bull city strong


Good mental health. I'm Matt Kelly welcome I'm pleased to have your company in our fifth of our podcast series that examines the tweets of Dr. Neil Maranello. He's a behavior expert and a solutions focused life coach in Woodstock, Vermont I'm always pleased to have him on the show Neil a pleasure having you here. Thank you for your company Our topic for today is such a natural progression off of our last discussion The topic today is each of us is doing the best that we can with what we have Why don't you introduce us to the concept behind the tweet? Sure good to see you Matt. Yeah, I think that I have to start with with my mentor even though I never met him His name was Milton Erickson and some consider it the best therapist who ever lived From my point of view, he made several statements and I actually took a course from the From an exponent from an exponent of his Which is the Erickson coaching program, which exists out of Vancouver an excellent program And I recommend it to anyone But he had several basic tenets and I had no trouble with any of them except this one And that was everyone's doing the best they can And for those who have seen the the previous podcast that we've done I was having trouble. I was having trouble with the idea that someone could kill somebody and that Would be the best they could do. I was having trouble with the idea that someone could actually Believe that the best they could do was to rape somebody To do the horrible things that people do I had already accepted that That people are actually Behave behavior is the thing which determines whether a person is good or bad Got thoughts on the other hand trying to explain people doing what Some consider to be the most horrible things in the world And in their own mind saying this is the best I can do was a real problem for me And it wasn't until I read something by D. Pat Chopra And which he said everyone's doing the best he can do Given their consciousness And the concept of consciousness, of course, which I've talked about briefly before Has to do with what are we aware of? And of course, there's also a subconsciousness And the idea that some of these horrible behaviors are an attempt by the conscious mind to deny The primitive parts of ourselves The fact that there's All kinds of darkness inside each of us But the simple reality is that That what we have to do is accept that Not deny it and if We accept the darkness within us we're much less likely to behave in bad ways So it's taken me a long time to Agree with with Milton about this, but I finally am at the point where I do You know it's For me, I I really love the concept and of course, you know In full disclosure for those who are watching I've been a client of dr. Neal's for a number of years and Just really feel honored to Experiences brilliance, but for me, it's interesting because there's so many layers here And I first of all, I see it as really one of your basic teachings That you're actually able to pass on to me as a former client Which I've now adopted as well as one of my own personal tenants And it's interesting because it's uh, it's a A belief that actually forces you to also radically accept yourself As much as it does to see that in those outside Because if you do see that that In those outside of you it actually commands that you see it inside of yourself As well, and you know, just like we were talking about in our last session You know, none of us is better than anyone else or each of us lives in our own reality and whatnot We're all trying to do the best that we can With what we have to deal with what's thrown at us at any any time and yet We're often the hardest on ourselves and and I know that through the self talk that I've you know Through work with you've been able to Try to become more aware of unconscious of trying to Stop phrases that are are less empowering so to speak. So This to me just It's such a great statement that I really have to demand it of myself Yeah, I believe that uh In referring to you you can remember that time when you Definitely tried to kill yourself and And you described it as being in the tunnel of darkness The reality is that It's like painting yourself to a corner into a corner of Of one floor of a multi-story building And that realizing that That's not all there is that in fact the building is inside you Uh accepting that there is a part of you that Can exist solely in darkness and drive you to a point where you would actually Very seriously try to off yourself to deny the only thing that we know in life, which is life Is an understanding that that you have at a deeper level than many people do And now that you've realized that in fact Uh, there's that's just a part of you that you have to accept Is that denying it is in fact denying all of you? And you know as I look to then you know projected outwards, you know, just to give you a An example in my personal life here as well um, you know, someone I know Had been going through a tough time because Uh, they were laid off after covid And had really You know deteriorated over the past year because you know work is really Tied up with a lot of self-worth for a lot of individuals and myself included. I know The spiral downward for me began, you know with the 2008 crash and the layoff that that occurred after that But my attitude towards this individual as I saw them spiraling down While there was you know great care It was also sort of angering because I wanted that person to be able to pick themselves up and not go through the tunnel of darkness that I went through and so here I was being judgmental and yet this person was still doing the best that they could do With what they had in a time of great crisis So it was also a reality check here for me as I've prepared for Our talk here today to again see where I was not giving some of that benefit of the doubt as well Well, we're talking about love And uh, and loving someone means wanting what's best for them Even if it's not what's best for you And accepting the parts of yourself that you have trouble loving Is the key to being able to uh to transcend These issues when you have a friend like you're describing Loving them basically means accepting What they're going through And communicating to them how much You can empathize with them. Well at the same time Doing your best to show them other ways of thinking Because when you really look at This concept of everyone's doing the best they can Uh when you and you add to a deep back Chopra's consciousness Idea the idea the real concept here is to expand your consciousness to include your subconscious to say, okay There's a part of me that is very primitive Uh that deals with the four f's remember feeding fleeing fighting and mating There's that part of me that deals with those that's inside me That's an animal part of me and that has a tendency to drive me In directions uh to that I would rather not go At the same time if I accept that that's a part of me and if I learn to love That part of me Then my uh the likelihood that I will do bad things the likelihood that I will be able to grow rather than shrivel Uh becomes much greater And so I want to kind of bring this back around to how you first began this Introduction to this concept here You know, we're kind of talking about uh two different people in a sense. I would think and that is the the that The people who are evil and that there are those who are evil and you described it in one of our past Discussions here that that is the conscious Will to uh hurt someone, you know that that is a definition of someone that's evil versus, you know The everyday person like yourself and my and and myself Um, you know, we can certainly see that but when we see someone who you know, we may define as evil whether it be hitler or or Uh, you know for you know, our current paradigm those who would see trump that way This isn't a hard concept. I think to kind of wrap our heads around that, you know hitler and our trump Uh, you know, we're doing the past that they could and yet, you know, if you follow Conversations with god and I believe it's james redmond's book there, uh, or neil donald walsh's book there He is saying that even hitler went to heaven well I don't know about heaven uh and hell but I do know that they both exist here on earth and I also know based on The precepts that we're operating from uh that As I said before if hitler could have accepted the part of himself that was jewish Maybe he wouldn't have killed six million jews The reality is that he could not do that Uh, the reality is also that uh that donald trump cannot accept the fact that he lost an election What we are talking about here is What a person consciously says to themselves?  I get the two uh, it's one's an economist and one is not And for me it's something that You know, I've adopted as my very own And it's again, it's something that I always want to try to keep in the forefront Of my mind because it defines interaction with anyone and and what's really interesting is that This is also one of your very basic tenets for the five components of a successful relationship Whether it be an intimate relationship or not And this is uh, one of the uh Topics of again, one of our future podcasts, which I'm really excited about But it's such a basic component about respect of the other person whether it's your post master or uh, uh, uh sibling A parent or or and in fact if I can say That I've had to use this Paradigm this concept as it relates to my parents Uh in a way to try to forgive them Uh that they were doing the best that they could Uh to raise me Uh as the best human being that they felt I could try to be Yes, and the the difficulty here is The parts of ourselves that we have trouble accepting To talk about How Milton Erickson developed his extraordinary Capacity to be a therapist the truth is that he had polio back when it was a really major problem And he was in an iron lung for an extended period of time when he was a teenager and uh For much of that time he couldn't even talk he could observe he could think But nobody could hear him and he was asked afterwards. What was it like being in an iron lung? Seeing the people wandering around in the hospital talking to each other And what he said was uh, well the first thing I noticed was the difference between people what people said And what they did And then I noticed the difference between what they said and what they did And what they thought they were doing And then I noticed the difference between what they said and what they thought they were saying and what they did And what they thought they were doing Truth is that he was a wonderful man. He helped virtually everybody came in contact with But people were afraid to walk in the same room with him because he could hypnotize them just like that Wow Well, our uh topic again is that each of us is doing the best we can with what we have and again I thought this was really important because it brought it back to the fact that each of us is living in our own reality in that Our reality is a construct or an amalgam Of our nature and our nurture And that each of us is doing the best we can Based on our nature and our nurture, you know, whether you are born with a physical defect You're trying to make your way in a world that Perhaps isn't exactly kind to uh, someone who's deaf or blind or whatnot But yet, uh, constructs have been made to try to help you deal with uh, this reality For me, I grew up again in perhaps a violent household that was Uh emblematic of the era that type of violence isn't seen Much today and yet was commonplace back then And yet again, my parents were doing the best that they could with what they had at the time That's true, but to Truly get to the points that you are now You had to deal with the violence that you grew up with and uh, there's No question in my mind, but that uh, when you tried to kill yourself You were dealing with that violence and it was mostly Put in your subconscious by your father And to the extent that uh, that you wound up surviving And getting to know your father and beginning to realize that he was doing the best he could It's part of what your healing has been all about Wow And for others as well. I mean, I'm I'm hopeful that This whole series will allow You the opportunity the viewer to do some self-interpection about Uh Giving yourself a break that you're doing the best that you can with what you have And that as you go out into the world to keep that as a forefront Thought to those amongst whom you interact with and and again I want to bring this back to relationships in general that neil you believe that this really is one of the five core tenants of a successful relationship That each of you have to Believe that the other is doing the best they can with what they have Yes, those five tenants include Each person Doing knowing that the other person is doing the best they can And if you are in a relationship and you begin to question whether the other person is doing the best they can Then you are not totally empathizing with that person and it may be extremely difficult to do Especially if what that person is doing is hurting you on the other hand If both people want the relationship to work If the good times outweigh the bad times and on that one one really bad time can outweigh a lot If not all the good times If each person feels like the other is doing the best they can if each person feels like they have a good deal With the other in the other In the relationship, uh, you wind up with An understanding that all of the factors that make a relationship work are attitudinal Yeah, if If you have a Seven-foot guy and a four-foot gal who it'll still work or vice versa than male female. It doesn't matter You know part of this has to do with the idea of accepting That all of us have within us the capacity to do everything That is good and everything that is bad And the key to the difference is accepting that the parts of you that have the capacity to do bad Are within you I was in fact just watching I quoted this I was just watching the The Netflix show lucifer and it has a scene in it where God says to Ella everyone has darkness in them. It's not about getting rid of it. It's about accepting it That's a season five episode 14 I wrote it down 10 minutes ago simply because it just seems like the basic concept that we need to accept and understand With the topic of today Wonderful your final thoughts on our on our topic each of us is doing the best with What we have each of us is doing the best we can with what we have some parting words for our viewing audiences They go out into the world Be kind to yourself Accept that there's a part of yourself that's capable of doing all the horrible things that hitler did And there's a part of yourself that's capable of doing all the wonderful things that jesus did And the key to it is understanding that It's inside you but that doesn't mean you have to do it You know and to wrap that up It just reminded me so much of our second podcast There's no part of you that is not a part of me and that you were talking about hitler and jesus in that You know as we walk the earth today We are breathing particles That were around and were breathed by both those two individuals And that's a tremendous unifying concept for me That is something that i'd like to leave us with as we again keep in mind that concept the forefront of our mind Each of us is doing the best we can with what we have My conversation with dr. Neal marinello. You can follow him at coach dr. Neal on twitter as we examine His tweets in the past our conversation will continue next week where our uh topic will be The only rules Controlling me are my own. It's a natural progression It's another in our podcast series of good mental health for the good doctor neal marinello I'm matt kelly wishing you good mental health