Hey everybody, tonight we're debating Black Lives Matter. Has it done more good or harm? And we are starting right now. With Brenton Langle's opening statement, thanks so much for being with us, Brenton. The floor is all yours. You wanna know what this is really all about. The Nixon campaign in 1968, the Nixon White House after that had two enemies, the anti-war left and black people. We knew we couldn't make it illegal to be either against the war or black, but by getting the public to associate hippies with marijuana and blacks with heroin and then criminalizing both heavily, we could disrupt those communities. We could arrest their leaders, raid their homes, break up their meetings and vilify them night after night on the evening news. Did we know we were lying about the drugs? Of course we did. Those are the words of John Ehrlichman, President Nixon's top eight on domestic affairs. You may be wondering why I'm quoting him being that the Nixon administration ended 46 years ago. However, as we're learning the cruel, capricious and downright malicious actions of our government have serious repercussions on our society and endure long after the evil men who first carried them out are long gone. According to the Drug Policy Alliance, the United States today spends an estimated 51 billion annually on the same war on drugs. Things got worse under President Ronald Reagan who massively expanded Nixon's war on black people and shifted the focus to criminal punishment over treatment. This led to a massive increase in incarcerations fueled by the crack epidemic that arose in the early 1980s. Congress quickly established a series of mandatory minimum prison sentences for various drug offenses, a notable feature of which was the massive gap between the amounts of crack cocaine associated with, which was associated with blacks and powder cocaine, which was associated with whites. Possession of five grams of crack led to an automatic five year sentence. Well, it took possession of 500 grams of powder cocaine to trigger the same sentence. It is important to note that there is little to no effective difference between crack and powder cocaine. They are the same drug and do the same thing. The point is these policies led directly to the rise of for-profit prison systems, which Reagan as a true believer in neoliberal capitalism and the privatization of government services was all too happy to fill at a guaranteed 90% occupancy rate. Things only got worse when a Democrat got into power. Under the Clinton crime bill authored by current President Joe Biden, incarceration rates soared, cheered on by the likes of Hillary Clinton who famously referred to young black men as psychotic super predators. Today, similar occupancy rate guarantees continue in virtually every state in the union. As a number of prisoners exploded, the black community in the United States soon found that nearly one third of their entire male population would spend some of their life in these new for-profit beds, which the government, thanks to Reagan's guarantee, had every incentive to fill, regardless of whether or not there were enough criminals to fill them. When combined with the fact that whites are as likely, if not more likely to commit drug crimes and people of color, the issue becomes very clear. And I can only echo the words of Michelle Alexander, author of the new Jim Crow mass incarceration in an era of colorblindness when I say, the primary targets of the penal systems control can be defined largely by race. And I might add, not just any race, but one specific race, bringing about a state of affairs which she describes as quote, a racial caste system strikingly similar to the Jim Crow South. Americans, despite making up 4.4% of the world's population, have roughly 22% of the world's prisoners. That's more than were held in Stalin's gulags. And for all of our talk about China's creeping authoritarianism and lack of respect for human rights, we imprison our own people at nearly six times the rate of the people's Republic of China. And despite blacks making up only 13% of our population, they make up the largest chunk, 34% of our male prison population, where they are of course put to work earning literal pennies a day, staffing call centers and manufacturing thousands of consumer products from stereo equipment to military flak jackets. If you see made in America on a product, odds are that product was made by a prisoner and there's a good chance that prisoner was black. Now, you may say, but Brent, they deserved it. They broke the law. Blacks commit the most crime.  But this is simply not the case. To quote nature journal, the most cited and respected scientific journal in the Western world, quote, black people fatally shot by police were twice as likely as white people to be unarmed. Those findings align with many studies published since 2015, suggesting that racial biases do influence police shootings.  Now you could say that this is not a race issue. This is a class issue because of course when you control for poverty, poor whites and poor blacks commit violent crime at roughly the same rate, which is of course true. And there is a 350% increase in the likelihood of police killings in areas that suffer from high poverty. According to the Bureau of Justice and Statistics, poor urban blacks have rates of violence similar to poor urban whites. And there is no significant change in the crime rate when you move from rural to urban, which of course makes sense. Poor people live in a pressure cooker. And when you put people in a pressure cooker, they're going to act out. You can be mad about that, but people who do not feel represented by the system that governs them feel no need to follow the laws or customs of that system. And that is why we are currently dealing with a very small 3% overall as of 2020 rise in violent crime. And while murders in particular was a troubling 25% in 2020, this increase in murder rate is still roughly half of what it was in the early 90s. This spike has nothing to do with defunding the police or BLM or anything. And it has everything to do with the greater economic stress on these communities brought on by the COVID pandemic. And so we come to Black Lives Matter. And to understand that movement, what it stands for and what it is attempting to accomplish and how it has succeeded, we must understand that here in America due to the historical circumstances surrounding the founding of this nation, wealth and social class are divided with very little exception along racial lines, which is to say who is in that pressure cooker and who is not is largely determined by race. First it was slavery and after slavery it was Jim Crow and after Jim Crow, it was Reagan's mass incarceration and Biden's crime bill, all of which led to over-policing of Black neighborhoods and an overwhelming epidemic of police killing Black men, which leads to moments like Eric Garner's death by strangulation, which along with other several prominent killings prompted the very first Black Lives Matter march in NYC, which I attended. This is a disturbing reality, but you cannot turn away from it. You heard John Ehrlichman on the position of the Nixon administration. You understand what has been going on within our prison system and the sickness that has infected our justice department and the police from the very beginning. So has Black Lives Matter done more good than harm? Well, that is a question that can only be answered by consulting your values.  Do you value order and hierarchy to such a degree that you're perfectly willing to allow yourself to be ruled by evil men like Richard Nixon and Ronald Reagan and Bill Clinton and Joe Biden? Do you value your own peace of mind to such an extent that rather than admit you have a serious problem in your hands and work to solve it, you instead deny it and bury your head in the sand. Do you choose comfort or do you choose truth? I know not what course others will take, but for me, I believe in an end to bigotry exploitation and the crimes caused by them. I believe in the value of human life and dignity over all laws which man has made or ever will make. I believe there is no peace now and there never will be peace so long as people are discriminated against, oppressed and treated contemptuously by those who falsely imagine themselves to be their superiors. Because as Dr. Martin Luther King so aptly observed, injustice anywhere is a threat to justice everywhere and to know justice is to know peace. And that is why I will forever be grateful to Black Lives Matter for bringing these issues into the mainstream. The first step to recovery is admitting you have a problem. And if you were the sort of person who values America and those and or those living within her borders, this is your chance to act now to save our civilization. Because if we do not act America, our civilization, everything that we have built will crumble. No one can escape their past, least of all the United States. The only alternative is to bravely face it and own up to these problems and move for a stronger, more unified future for all of our citizens. Thank you. Thank you very much, Brenton for that opening statement and want to let you know folks, if it's your first time here at Modern Day Debate, we are a neutral platform hosting debates on science, religion and politics. And we hope you feel welcome no matter what walk of life you were from, no matter how far politically left or politically right. We are glad you were here with that. We'll kick it over to James for his opening statement. Thanks so much for being here. James of the Hick Report, the floor is all yours. I love how you say that. Thank you, man. Well, Nixon and Reagan evil, that's news to me. Crack versus powder cocaine, it's not the drugs. It is the behavior of the people who were selling the drugs. As you pointed out, as Brenton pointed out, it was the black violent crime that was associated with the crack epidemic. Because he pointed out that early 90s, late 80s, murders were through the roof. And that's why Hillary was right on that note. They were super predators, super predators, no conscience, no empathy. They acted like animals. And Michelle Alexander ad hominems, in my opinion, are valid.  And I don't buy that whites are just as likely to commit the drug crimes. I just don't buy that stat. And Chinese people do not commit crimes the way that black Americans do. So a lot of this, I don't buy scientific consensus. Science is not a consensus. It's about right and wrong. It's about truth versus lies.  And to just, they have this constant excuse of racism, racism, racism. That's one thing that Brenton didn't mention with this cards being stacked against blacks. They have this brainwashing of racism that sets them up to shoot themselves in the foot and sometimes get themselves killed. And I think that's what's happening a lot. I don't think it was the COVID pandemic that brought the crime to rise. I do think it was the, in part, maybe the communist shutdowns in response to the, in overreaction to the pent, the scam, edemic. But BLM, let's be honest, it consistently has resulted. Anytime it's gotten play, it's consistently resulted in what Heather McDonald calls the Ferguson effect. The Ferguson effect because politicians, the mainstream media and including Democrats and rhinos, both cater to the blacks and pretend that they're victims and be like, oh yes, let's look at the cops. I suppose we need to look at the cops because society is becoming more and more corrupt and that affects the cops too. But we have to look at the blacks. They're out of control and they increase. The Black Lives Matter specifically increases ill will. I don't think overpolicing is the problem in the black community. There are black single mothers who are begging for more policing in their communities.  People unjustly marginalized, maybe that happened with the blacks. I don't know, I would imagine so. We do have an evil establishment in the government I don't doubt that it was there in existence way back, way back when decades ago, but people unjustly marginalized. I wonder whether Brenton Langle would speak out against the whites who are now being marginalized in much the same way, deep platformed, prevented from having their bank accounts and conducting businesses, prevented from having websites on so-called American servers. It is, there is a major attack on whites in this and it's a divide and conquer thing too. It's not black versus white, it's good versus evil. The phrase black lives matter itself does harm because it spreads ill will. It is, the last thing anyone needs is to feel sorry for blacks or for black quote unquote victims to encourage blacks to be into their blackness more. Everybody knows that the race in America that is the most attached to their so-called racial identity above what's right above truth is the black community. They're into the blackness. They voted for Barack Obama at 96% twice. And even after they're supposedly Christian and yet he supported same-sex marriage and they weren't on board with that, but they supported that. And so sympathy and empathy and special treatment and attention is a big part of what's gone wrong for black Americans. We need to think more like men and less like women. I think that's the difference between communism and what was great about America and what still could be great.  Trayvon Martin and Mike Brown's self-defense killings resulted in exoneration for George Zimmerman and no charges for former officer Darren Wilson who was unfairly smeared. At this, the three ladies quote unquote ladies pouting on Facebook, Opal Tamedi, Alicia Garza and Patrice Culler is the founder's so-called of black lives matter. Patrice Culler is by the way hung up on the Jessilee Peterson show when I was producer back in December of 2014 and she lied about it to me. She said, I didn't hang up.   It's a false accusation that, oh, you guys don't value innocent lives or lives that are unjustly taken. That's a backhanded accusation. I know it means black lives matter too, but they're the ones who don't value their own lives. In fact, Patrice, Alicia, Opal Tamedi, I believe that they're part members of the so-called LGBTQ community and they are obese. They're not valuing their own lives. Those things aren't good for you. And they're not supporting the best thing for the black community is married fathers and mothers and raising their children in the right way. As if the rest of America doesn't know that innocent lives shouldn't be taken. If anybody needs to be told to value the light, other lives and love all the others, it's the black criminals themselves and their post-mortem allies after these black criminals, many of them criminals, some of them not, get themselves killed. Trayvon, Mike Brown and so many others acted recklessly and belligerently, almost with a death wish, no will to live, no regard for others. And that comes back to the family, their poor raising. I don't wanna go to jail is the line that some of them have said when they're running from the cops.   And that's what black lives matter has brought. The hashtag Black Lives Matter took off online because young people and brainwashed blacks and liberals and communists are shallow and petty. These people racially profile the whites and the police and they don't even have to be white, honestly, treating them with the suspicion and assuming, presuming them guilty even after exculpatory evidence comes out.  So Black Lives Matter has become like the establishment of the religion of the hate crime hoax, which is very common. And it has been common for some time. And I suspect that Black Lives Matter has increased the occurrence of the hate crime hoax. Hate crime doesn't even exist, but now it has become popular to just make up just a black person writing the N-word on college campuses.  Blacks are now, they feel pressured to lie and say, oh, such and such thing was racist. Even if they don't personally feel that way, there's a pressure from the community.  Because blacks are the perpetrators, the aggressors and the complainers who turn around and play victim. It's not good. It's not good. It's evil. It's not racism versus anti-racism. It's good versus evil. You got to thank you very much, James, for that opening statement and want to let you know, folks, we have many more juicy debates coming up in the future. So if you haven't already, folks, hit that subscribe button as an example. This Friday, Alex Stein and Vegan Gains collide on whether or not veganism is morally obligatory. It's going to be juicy. You don't want to miss it. So as I mentioned, hit that subscribe button and with that, we will go into open conversation. But one last announcement before we do, our guests are linked in the description, folks. If you have been listening and you're like, hmm, I like that, go ahead right now and click on their links in the description. And that includes that their links are in the description for the podcast as well. So if you're listening there as well, you can click on their links and thank you very much, Brenton and James Hague. I'm not used to saying that there's another James here. James and Brenton, the floor is all yours. Right on, I appreciate that. Cool. So there was a lot in that opening statement. But one of the things that I didn't hear, I heard a lot of assertions, but I didn't hear any citations. Where are you getting a lot of this information? Because I'm hearing some very broad claims that are very general and I'm not exactly sure like what we can back that up with beyond opinion. What claim have I made that you don't know to be true? Well, hang on. So there's a number of claims that you've made that I would take issue with. But what I'm wondering about for instance is you made the claim, take for instance that the reason that crack cocaine gets a higher sentence than powder cocaine is because the behavior of the people who sell the crack cocaine. But that wouldn't function within our justice system because behavior is taken into account when the judges are sentencing. That's why people get additional charges. So for instance, simply possessing a certain amount of crack cocaine would get you a charge. But then also having worse behavior on top of that would get you even greater charges. So if the sentencing is simply for the drugs and utterly divorced from the behavior, you can't explain that discrepancy in the sentencing by saying that for whatever reason, the people that sell crack are not as classy as the people that sell powder cocaine. It's not about class. It was about the crack epidemic was inextricably associated with high murder rates. Whether the people themselves were caught committing murders. Right, but they weren't sent. It's a matter of common sense. Well, but hang on, hang on there. So common sense oftentimes can lead us in the wrong direction especially with big complicated sociopolitical things. But it's not a complicated sociopolitical thing. It's a simple thing. It's a simple issue. I mean, no, it's not a very simple issue. I mean, like straight up, there is a significant suspicion within the black community with regard to the so-called crack epidemic that this was specifically engineered by the CIA to put them into prison on purpose. And, you know, we don't have any proof for that but the CIA was known to be running drugs during that time. We had motive, we had opportunity and we had means. So yeah, we don't have proof and I would not conclude anything beyond that but the idea of the crack epidemic within the 90s was much bigger than simply people like than simply drug dealers behaving aggressively with crack because if you're going to sentence someone and they're also a murderer, you would hit them with a drug charge for the crack and you would hit them for a murder charge. You don't just make the drug charge for the crack more than the drug charge for the powder cocaine. You'll have to argue with those people themselves because the blacks at that time were begging for a strong reaction to the crime problem. So the black leadership themselves. So who black leaders? You're not aware of this? No, I'm asking for a quote. I wanna know who in the black leadership was begging for. I don't need to give you a quote. It's well documented that the black leadership wanted strong action against the violent crime. Okay, so who was it? Was it Al Sharpton that wanted it? Was it Jesse Jackson? I don't remember. I wasn't real, I was a kid back then. We both were. Yeah, but the people aren't always caught when the commit murders. When a particular drug is a problem drug associated with murders. And I'd grant you that maybe the CIA were running shenanigans. But it's entirely possible. I wouldn't say it without proof, but it's possible. But when something is associated with, when it becomes a problem, for example, when I was a kid, pogs, we were playing pogs. You would hit this toy down and flip it over. Yeah, I'm familiar with pogs. There was a problem with the fights would start to break out. Then so they cracked down on pogs. But then there were some nice, I don't know, people playing magic cards. It wasn't such a problem. And so you crack down on the pogs, but you don't crack down on the pogs. Even though the person playing the pogs didn't commit any other crime, even though the person selling the crack or buying the crack may not have committed any other crime. It's just how these people, it's how the leadership felt was the best way to deal with it. Maybe it turned out for the worst. I don't know. Yeah, thank you for taking me back to the 90s there, by the way, because I played with pogs and then I gave it up for Magic the Gathering, which I thought was much more fun. Yeah, so again, I think there's a big difference. I see what you're getting at there is that certain pastimes can be associated with certain communities of people and that this might put a amount of maybe, I guess for lack of a better word, prejudice on a specific activity, even though there's not really a reason for that. I think with pogs, the big problem was that people were gambling with them and so when they win, they take the pogs and then people would freak out. I think that was what was causing the fights. Magic, they had a rule that you could play for Auntie and steal somebody's cards or not. So I think that might have been why they behaved differently. And also schools get really mad about gambling in schools, even if it's not for money. But again, I see what you're trying to say with that and that may have played into it a little bit, but still the fact that they sat down and came up with these sentencing guidelines in law, in law, in these very structured judges are coming up with this and prosecutors are prosecuting it. I think what we can conclude is that the point of the law, however it was, was not to punish the use of drugs. It was to punish specific people with the excuse of punishing them with drugs, which again is what John Ehrlichman said. He said he knew that they were lying about the drugs. They did it just to attack black people because Nixon didn't like them. Well, why didn't Nixon like them? It was inextricably associated with the violent crime. Like you're ignoring that the crack epidemic was murder. Well, the crack epidemic was way after Nixon. I know, but whatever. But I don't know what was happening during Nixon's time, but we're talking about murders through the roof. I don't know what blacks were like back in Nixon's time. They got a little out of control with these riots. And there was for ages, there's been a group of blacks who want to keep the victimhood thing, which you're buying into, honestly. And there were blacks who want the responsibility side and never mind the injustice supposedly we face because you can overcome stuff. But when you focus more on this injustice, you're gonna overcompensate and create more injustice. And that's all that Black Lives Matter has done. Okay, so let's talk a little bit because I find this is really interesting. You feel that what I'm getting from you, and you can tell me if I'm right here, you feel that the narrative of racism is contributing to a victim mentality within the people that are complaining about racism, correct? Yeah, it's plain. It's not a feeling that's plain. Okay, so I can see where you're getting that. That's somewhat logical, but let's think about this for just a second. Okay, so if let's imagine in a hypothetical world, what if they were actually complaining about racism? What if it was real? How would that look differently to you than if they were fake complaining about racism? Like how would they still say the same words? What's the difference there? I can't play with if because racism doesn't exist. And we all know that blacks will call anything racist. So it's so frequent. Somebody gets into a little argument at a desk and he starts looking around and crying racism. It's ridiculous. People do have valid complaints now and then and sometimes you say, oh, this is, and they misdiagnosed it as racism. It isn't injustice, but it's not racism. What do you define racism as? I'd be interested to hear that. It doesn't exist. People judging based on race, you don't judge based on race. Okay, so judging based on race is how you define racism. And I can see that that's kind of the, that idea is based in the zeitgeist. I would actually call that prejudice, like judging based upon, basically for bad reasons. I think probably people do it without realizing it, but that's not exactly what I would define as racism. I would define racism in a systemic sense in terms of like actual physical policy carried out by the government that then goes on to inform interactions on the macro level. So a great example is, Nixon wants the war on black people because he thinks they're his enemies. So he goes in and he instructs his press corps and his people to make sure to put as many of them in prison as possible. They get put in prison by people who probably weren't bad people just doing their jobs, following their orders. And then you get Ronald Reagan into office and Ronald Reagan really loves the free market. He loves privatizing businesses.  And then you've got that pressure on the system to put as many people into those beds as possible so that you can make them work and that everybody can make money off of these people who are paid 15 cents an hour to manufacture military flat jackets and stereo equipment. Like that's what I would consider racism in the sense that like, it's not the people necessarily who are involved. Like maybe Nixon up at the top and maybe Reagan had some bad feelings. Maybe he didn't, but the actual system, the web of power between individuals that leads to bad outcomes for people based upon criteria that they can't entirely control. That's what I would think of when I think of it as racism and that's usually what Black Lives Matter are objecting to. They don't always say it in the best way possible because it's a difficult and advanced concept to talk about. But I think sort of the interpersonal prejudice aspect of racism is almost like it's there, but it doesn't seem to me to be the big problem. It's not the elephant in the room. The elephant in the room is we have these incentives that were built into our society by men long dead that are now causing us very, very serious problems and causing some of the social discord that you see and rightly don't like. I don't buy that Nixon or Reagan had those so-called prejudices that you claim that they had. They're not around to defend themselves. Have you listened to Nixon's tapes? I have not. Nixon recorded like everything he said. He said some really really awful stuff. People say stuff, but people's stuff sounds awful, but men used to talk frankly in the good old days. That's why Trump was so refreshing. Let's bring it to reality, present reality where we can all see what's going on. That's what you claim. Well, the past is also real. Rather than what you claim. It's not reality though, because you're saying stuff that may have happened, may not have happened, may have had reasons to it, may not have had good reasons to it. I mean, you can fact check me. And again, go listen to the Nixon tapes. They're quotes by Nixon that I could not read on this podcast. Can you say them, but bleep them or something? Yeah, like Nixon said, no, wait, no, no, I'm not because I'm going to get clipped if I try to. Okay, never mind, but people say stuff, people say stuff and there's nothing wrong with it. I mean, there's nothing wrong, but what someone says, especially when they're behind closed doors like with, like it can give you an insight into where their mind is. What were the blacks like that he was responding to them though? You're not telling the whole story. I mean, he again, he was responding to them in general because he saw that community as his political enemies. So I don't think it would have mattered what they were like. All that Nixon probably cared about was that they were against him. I mean, politics is more than just mere disagreement. It's about people, it's about right versus wrong. And so he saw them as wrong. And what's wrong with him seeing them as wrong? I mean, what I would say is the problem with seeing someone else as inherently wrong when you get pulled into your own egotistical headspace like that and you don't engage your empathy to understand why they may be behaving the way they're going to behave, you make a big mistake and that will oftentimes lead to disastrous results, especially if you're someone like the president of the United States whose bad decisions can have horrible ripple effects for decades to come. But you're projecting egotism and a lack of understanding on him, you don't know him. You're just judging him based on words. And you were brought it up in a culture that was politically correct. We're not used to hearing men talk like men. And so this is America. I mean, okay, but what do you think? Let's dig into that. Men talk like men. What do you mean men talk like men? Men talk about what reality is.     Is that what I'm getting? I don't really honestly buy that it was such a slur back in the good old days because it's kind of like the B word or the N word. Have you ever read Tom Sawyer or Huckleberry Finn? People said it and it didn't even necessarily mean anything bad. So I think that it's melodrama. It's this mama spirit. Let me just feel sorry for these people and get all dramatic and you can't say this or that and clamp down on freedom of speech.   So let me first acknowledge what you're saying there because what you seem to be pushing back against, if I'm right, is sort of this whole thing like when I was a kid, for instance, my mom didn't like me to say stupid. She didn't want me to do that because that was a mean thing to do and I could get me into fights and all this other stuff.   I can see that that is something that someone would naturally bristle against and that you can find certain aspects of politically correct language to be stifling. That I think that's 100% valid and I'm really with you on that. Where I'm not going with you is the use of the slurs. Now, I have read Huckleberry Finn, my dad read me Huckleberry Finn when I was growing up. So, and I, you know, that word was in there. And it was just nonchalant. It was not malicious. But also we know that there is a phenomenon called pseudo-espaciation. This was something that discovered in like World War II because they found out that like 80% of the soldiers in World War II fired over their heads and tried to not kill the enemy.  So what they found then going into like- Or a super predator. Yeah, or a super predator.  And so they did a number of things that would allow them to put a mental block. It's called pseudo-espaciation where before you do something terrible to someone, you have to convince yourself that they're not human. So one of the big things in like the training in Vietnam was to think of them as a silhouette, as a shadow, as opposed to an actual person. And one of the major reasons in ways that people do this is through language. And that is one of the things that makes specific words and slurs, like the N word, so dangerous, not on like an individual one-to-one level.   But these people that are maybe already moving in that direction, the kind of wanted to do it anyway, they start using that language and it starts wearing down those blocks that prevent it. And suddenly they're taking out their anger on something that's not a human. So I think there's a really good reason why you need to be worried about the use of slurs, again, not on an individual level, but in public projected to hundreds of thousands of people repeated again and again. It starts a nasty cycle that some of the people who let's just say are more violently inclined are, you know, it gets them worked up. So I think that's something, yeah.  Because that's what's happening. Oh yeah, it's a cab. Well, I never heard it live. That's my second time hearing it live.  I don't think anybody uses Nazi as a slur. Oh, it's a slur. Yeah, now there is, now, as far as like pig, I can actually kind of go with you on that because, and I'm gonna take a lot of heat from my friends for this, but yes, when protestors call cops pigs, they are engaging in the same kind of pseudo speciation. And I think that that is something that, you know, while sometimes understandable is something that we as a society need to rise above, you know, to rise above our animalistic natures. Because again, yeah, on one hand, you know, ACAB, the slogan is a acknowledgement that it's a criticism of the state. It's an acknowledgement of what certain people believe the police to symbolize and to function in actual reality. I have to explain ACAB for the boomers. ACAB, ACAB, all cops are bastards. Bastards. Yeah, and that can feel like that. Like, dude, I did a lot of protesting with Occupy Wall Street and you can get into a very sort of loggerheads relationship with the cops when you're doing that, because they're the ones who are there kind of restraining you and about probably one-third of them are horrible and one-third of them I think are really great and one-third just kind of want to get through the day, you know, and, you know, get their paycheck. But like, the point is, is that like, when you run into these situations, it's very important to not get swept up in, I guess, you know, a group think and to not start thinking of the people as necessarily your enemies. You know, there was a cop I remember at Occupy Wall Street and I was sitting there talking to my friend a little loudly and I think I may have even said like a cab or something. And the cop came up to me and he said, you know, do you know why I wanted to be here? And I said, no, no, why? And he said, because I support you and I want to make sure that you are safe, you know, I asked for this duty. And I was really taken by that. Similarly, like, you know, I met Captain Ray Lewis, the former Philadelphia police captain who was arrested with Occupy, very famously at his big picture on Newsweek and everything. And, you know, he's become one of my best friends and has provided a lot of insight into police culture that I think a lot of people on the left just may not have because they're just locked into that us versus them. I'm right, they're wrong. I'm good, they're evil mentality when, you know, ultimately we're just complicated human beings trying to relate to one another.  What does it do?  Yes, I'm a Buddhist. Examine themselves, right?  Whites are racist, I can't be racist. What do you think it's like to be able to accuse somebody of something that you don't think that you can be guilty of? What does that do to a soul? I mean, that's a bit of power, assuming that the person really does believe that. I, you know, it's well known on the far left that people will, you know, there's the pecking party where people get into trying to be the best leftist that they can possibly be in the most politically correct and they become very, very toxic and tear down each other for no good reason. It's one of the worst and most frustrating things to see. And I can see how racist could be used in that way. I don't think it's quite up to the level of a slur, but like, I don't think anyone has ever been robbed because they were a racist. Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah, they have.  Whites are targeted by blacks. It's called polar bear hunting. I don't know if they've been robbed, but they've been the knockout game. They've been, they've been black on white crime is way out of proportion.  I mean, I really think that that's, you know, I lived in a parliament. Just for saying the N word, one guy allegedly, allegedly said the N word and you got knocked out and killed. Well, I would hope that he wouldn't be killed for such a thing. I'm not sure exactly who you're referring to, but- It was a guy in like a Winshills donut or something. Look, I lived in Harlem. I lived in Sugar Hill, Harlem for 10 years. I, at no point, well, once, I think once in 10 years, I encountered a black person that was genuinely racist towards white people. Like, and it was an old lady who was muttering to herself, you know, about us being like cave dwellers or something.  But, you know, ultimately that was one woman who has been, looked to have had a very, very rough, really, really hard life. So, you know, I can kind of let that roll off my back. My neighbors for years upon end were wonderful people. Like, you know, they behaved a little differently than I did on the street. We had, we would talk at different volumes. We would walk in different ways, you know, they'd yell at each other more often than I was used to. But they're just people, you know, like anybody else. And I don't feel like, you know, while definitely I have seen people use accusations of racism as a way to wield power, I think that there's also, you know, a genuine problem that needs to be called out. And we need to kind of keep both in mind. So, yeah, I mean, that was what I wanted to, that's what I wanted to address. And this was, you talked about Black Lives Matter spreading ill will. And I've heard this a lot and I did wanna address this. Like, I can see what you're trying to say with that, that when people bring up racism, it can get people into a combative mindset where they do, again, kind of like with the leftists and the cops, or like, you know, where they see the other side as a unified whole that's coming after them as opposed to a collection of individuals. But don't you think that like spreading, like if Black Lives Matter spreads ill will, what do you think it does when you say stuff like racism doesn't exist and like Trayvon Martin deserved to be killed? Like, that's kind of spread ill will like crazy. It doesn't, it may be provocative, but it's the truth, we need the truth. Black Lives Matter is based on all lies. The people who say that Black Lives Matter, they don't value their own lives. Many of them are miserable people. Many of them are committed suicide. And then they say, oh, this person was lynched. Turns out he hanged himself. It happened like multiple times. And these people are like that, like I said, they're overweight, they're part of this LGBT stuff. They're part of the communists. They don't even want America to exist. They're in bed with, or Antifa is in bed with them, whatever. I mean, what I would say is, you know, let's assume that you're correct. They don't want America to exist. America led by Richard Nixon with a possible CIA, trying to put them into prison to exploit them for their labor. Can you understand maybe why they might feel that way? According to you, but even still that's long over. And yeah, I know that stuff that happened in the past affects today, World War II and all that stuff, but it is, Black Lives Matter is worse than the KKK because they are teaching, they're pushing anger. They're pushing hatred and they're pushing false, they're very accusatory. Even before blacks don't like being assumed to be guilty. So why are they assuming cops and whites of being guilty? Trayvon Martin. Being guilty of what exactly? Being guilty of murder or racism or whatever.  Okay, so hang on. I'll give you a good example of racism for one of the major cases and you can hopefully understand this. Are you familiar with what happened to Freddie Gray? Yes. Okay, so Freddie Gray, and do you know what redlining is? I've heard of it. Okay, yeah. So redlining is just as a refresher. This was a project where home loans were denied to black people in certain areas. Like, so a lot of the boom in the 50s where everybody could have a house and build wealth was a result of home loans from the US government. These home loans were denied to black people even if they had the credit and the money to get a home, they still weren't able to get it and they were forced into essentially tenements regardless of how hard they worked. What wound up happening there was that Freddie Gray was raised in an illegal housing tenement that was in a redlined area and he grew up eating paint chips, like lead paint chips that were on the wall like some children do. And as a result of this, he became brain damaged. He and his sisters won a case with the city of Baltimore, with regard to that but he was actually tricked out of the money by some unscrupulous lawyers that came after him afterwards when he didn't really have the capacity to understand that he was signing away his money in exchange for one like lump sum. When people are poisoned by lead, it has a number of negative effects. It makes it difficult for them to concentrate. It makes it harder for them to get through school. It makes them more aggressive at times. And so all of this came together into his confrontation with those police officers who say probably that he tried to run or was rude or whatever and they threw him in the back of their van and they basically did donuts until his spine severed. Now, there's a lot of points in that story that could lead up to it but you can see how racial policies that led to Freddie Gray having the circumstances that he had were exactly what put him in the position to die in the back of that police car. When those police officers made that decision, you know, it was bigger than them, it was bigger than him. So I would say that's a perfect example of racism, systemic racism, resulting in a bad outcome that we as a society kind of need to avoid it. I don't think it's a good idea to poison people with lead. I don't think it's a good idea to steal their money and I don't think it's a good idea to be cruel to them when you arrest them, you know? Lawyers being dishonest is not racism. They do it to everybody. And there are many dishonest black lawyers taking advantage of this thing right now. There are many so-called families of these so-called victims who are making millions of dollars in settlements when in actuality they should probably be paying the cities that their children's deaths, the overreaction to their children's deaths or husbands or whatever, cause so much damage. And this redlining, as you described it, it doesn't sound racist to me. It sounds like they were trying to deal with the problem of this diversity thing because all of this forced integration was every bit is evil, maybe even worse than this redlining stuff. And nowadays, nowadays they are forcing, I mean, I think it was Clinton. He said, every black family should own a home. And so he started the roots of the housing crisis because blacks did not pay back their loans. And many others were not paying back their loans. So all of the affirmative action stuff is every bit is evil, maybe worse than the separation. Community doesn't want you in the community. Why would you want to be in that community? Okay, so- And then the- Just don't buy- I'm gonna say that racism had nothing to do or racism or anti-racism or whatever had nothing to do with the housing crisis. That's something I know very intimately having been buried in Occupy Wall Street. That was caused by credit default swaps, which is a long complicated thing to get into. But essentially AIG was selling triple insurance and it got to a point where like, because of the way they'd set things up, it didn't matter if the loans got paid or not, the people at the top made money either way. So then they just started giving out loans to everyone because it was free money. Before we go too far down the rider hole, don't get me wrong, interesting stuff to talk about, just pulling it back to the Black Lives Matter topic that we have for tonight. If we are able to focus more on those arguments, as I know- That's probably good. Absolutely, yeah. Okay, saying that the cops basically did donuts is just a blind false accusation because you don't know what happened. Freddie Gray was a drug dealer. You left that out. I mean it was called the rough ride and I don't- It was called the rough ride by who? There was no proof that there was a rough ride. That was just an accusation. How else is his spine gonna sever in the police? I don't know if he got tackled. He ran from the cops. They were just standing there. He ran from them. They chased him. I don't know if they're supposed to chase him or not, but they tackled him. Maybe that's how he's spying that stable. I don't think your spine is gonna get severed. Just because you're so much overlapped. Just to be sure there's not too much overlap. Okay. I mean, like I said- You don't know what happened. That's the point. No one- And you said donuts, like you knew, but you don't know.  It's where they put you in the back of the car and they drive the car very radically in order to cause you to bump around.  Or maybe they just did it to be mean. I don't know. Let me reiterate. You don't know that they even gave a rough ride. That's just a spurious claim. They were not- I don't believe any of them were even convicted, even though they were charged, which had a cooling effect over there. They weren't convicted. They were charged. And it's really taken until now for cops that do this to actually get convicted. And there's a number of major problems behind that. A lot of it dealing with police unions. And also the fact that prosecutors have to work with cops. And we talked about mob mentality, kind of circling the wagons and seeing the other side as the enemy. If prosecutors have to work with cops, they're going to be very reluctant to actually charge and convict cops. Because if they do, maybe then that guy's friends are mad at them and they don't help them on the next case. So like- The prosecutors are very, it's interesting that you bring up prosecutors because they're very corrupt. Now we have Black Lives Matter minded prosecutors who are not enforcing the law. Black Lives Matter, I'll reiterate, is worse than the KKK because it's encouraging blacks to hate. I mean, the KKK- like tried to carry out armed insurrection in the 70s. Like- And? I mean- What actual harm did they do? Black Lives Matter is- They murdered people. Black Lives Matter is murdering people. They've increased the murder rates. They've ignored the black-on-black murders. Whoa, hang on. You don't know that they've increased the murder rates. Yes, they have.  You just gave me, you're saying I can't know that these cops did a rough ride, but you can know that Black Lives Matter is increasing the murder rates, which is so much more complicated than whether or not a few officers took an action that could be considered a rough ride. The establishment support for Black Lives Matter in the mainstream media, in the established politicians, the people who are the bureaucrats, that has hurt the, had a cooling effect on policing and it has spread the lie that, oh, cops are racist. Oh, we need to let people out of prisons. Oh, this and that. And meanwhile, the crime is out of control and it has gotten even worse because there is a soft-on crime thing. And it has encouraged, you haven't even addressed this issue. It has encouraged blacks to hate. And that's worse than- I mean, I kind of had with it, so I kind of addressed that with the spreading of ill-will. What do you mean it's encouraged blacks to hate? Because it's falsely accusing cops and whites of this imaginary racism thing. Okay, but let's imagine- Even if it were real, what's good about hating it? I don't think hating is ever really good. What is it that Dalai Lama said?  And that's what's happening in the black community. So I can say that hate might be a natural reaction from people when they are confronted with injustice. When they are or what they perceive as injustice, if you don't believe it's real injustice. I can see that that is something that some people will fall into. And we should do what we can to again communicate on a higher level because we all have to live together. So I think that there is something to be said for heavy, heavy focus on just racism and nothing else to get, it's like mean world syndrome. Like we're seniors go and all they do is they watch the news and the news is sensationalist. So they start to believe that the world outside their house is really, really dangerous because all they're doing is reading bad story after bad story after bad story on the news. That's a real psychological phenomena. So you could see a version of mean world syndrome happening with regard to somebody who is really enmeshed in social justice to say for a thing. If that's their world, if that's what they're living and if they're just getting nothing bad news, okay. That's something that, I think a lot of activists have to deal with that. And people talk about burnout and people talk about feeling like there is absolutely no hope in fighting for a better world. But what I will remember, what I always remember is when I went to occupy, to protest the Democratic National Convention, I think this was 2012 maybe. When I was there, I was with Occupy and we were walking from one meeting place back to the park and all of a sudden out of nowhere all of these cops roll up on us. Now it's dark, we're wet. I'm holding, I think, I don't remember exactly what I'm holding. But basically- We do have to redirect shortly. Yeah, go ahead. Basically, oh yeah. So I was holding tarps because we were trying to keep people dry from the rain. And these cops come in and basically one of them gets like right up behind me. Like as close as you would get if there's like a woman you wanna creep on like that's where the cop is standing. And he's like those aren't signs you're carrying, are they? And I'm like, no officer, cause I'm gonna be friendly. I know how dangerous this situation is, but I'm like, nope, they're tarps. And he goes, good, because signs make us nervous. I go, no, no, look at him. And as I dealt with this situation and remembering another time that I didn't arrest at Occupy and when I wasn't resisting but the cop yelled stop resisting and need me in the spine and threw me into a motorcycle, that kind of terror. Later on, I got back to the hotel and I was sitting and there was a black gentleman about 40 years old, very well put together, nice suit and everything. And we just got to talking about it. And I was like, dude, I have never felt like that around cops in my entire life. And he's like, I feel like that every single day. And like the thing is is that people have very different reactions and relations with law enforcement based upon what they look like and what communities they come from. So I feel like what's important when we are talking about this kind of thing is to try to see things from the other person's perspective and maybe we'll learn something that we didn't know before. You need to tell that to the blacks because whites have been over backwards for the blacks. The cops are bending over, their hands are tied.  And so this is just so phony. And- I mean, there's something to be said for, cops have the saying, Ray Lewis told me about him, he said, there's two kinds of people to a cop.  That's it. Because they deal with a lot of the time, the worst of society and people on their worst days, like again and again and again. It's one of the problems like with being a police officer is you get beaten down. And they know what blacks are like. I mean, again, I don't feel like you can make that statement with any kind of authority. Like, know what, what does that even mean? Like, is there a- How it is dealing with them? How it is dealing with them? Yeah, but hang on. They're not dealing with all of the blacks. They're dealing with- They know a lot more than us enough to generalize.  And humans can only recognize, what is it, 150 or so individuals and everybody else gets grouped into, it's called a Dunbar's number. So I don't think you can use, even genuinely held prejudices that cops have as evidence that that is in fact the case.   So this whole Black Lives Matter thing, it's a total misdirection. The black family being non-existent, do you think maybe that might have something to do with the fact that 34% of their men will at some point be in prison? Nope. Why would that have- One, that's their fault. Two, that's not the biggest issue- But it's not their fault. It's Nixon and Reagan's fault. No, it's their fault. Why is it their fault? Because they're the ones committing the crimes. They know the laws just as much as the rest of us. They're poorly raised. If it's anybody's fault, it's the black single mothers who are raising them poorly. Okay, so how do you know that these black single mothers are raising them?   You're just denying reality. What I feel like is happening here is you've got a couple of incidents that you're pulling from and you're- No, this is, no, look around you. This is go to any community. Go to any major black community. And it is single mothers. Harlem, no, no Harlem for 10 years. Then how, well, you're blind then. You're spiritually blind then. That's what it is. Because that's the only way you can support Occupy. Let's be honest.  So were you ever at Occupy? No, I stayed clear away from there. That's a shame. Because I knew some Occupy supporters, blind brainwashed Obama supporters and all that. Well, we were pretty- They're mostly indecent people. So first off, Occupy was very hostile to Obama. In fact, that's one of the reasons why Occupy is not around anymore. So if you found some Occupy Obama supporters, that's really weird, but I'm not saying that it didn't exist. I'm not saying that it didn't exist. They were supposedly Christians too. It doesn't make any sense at all. You know, I've heard this, you did this with Ben, where you kind of projected that like, all of the Christians that disagree with you are not Christians. They're not. Not on these issues. You can't be a Christian and support Obama. You can't be a Christian and support the Occupy. Well, hang on. There are plenty of people that would say, and probably have a stronger case that you can't be a Christian and support Donald Trump. No. Because he's an adulterer. No, no, Trump is like Jesus compared to any of these people.  But anyway, we're talking about Black Lives Matter. Yeah. I mean, you ignored, I don't know if you've ever even read Heather McDonald. She documented the Ferguson effect, the homicide spiking thanks to the pandering to Black Lives Matter. Police have been discouraged and their hands tied from doing their jobs. Criminals emboldened and freed to wreak chaos. And woe to those who do, who call evil good and good evil. It's a backwards world. They're just smearing and nitpicking the cops in the whites. And there's plenty to smear and nitpick.  And you're acting like, like I have to pick a couple of examples to see that it really exists. Well, yeah, I have to have some kind of evidence. You don't need evidence. You just look around you. You're in utter denial if you don't think, if you don't know that the Black family is almost non-existent. I mean, so first off, there are, I don't know the statistics on Black people like how many of them are actually married. But what I do know is it's very... Over 70% out of wedlock. But I do know it's also very difficult to get married if you're poor. Excuse me. Well, no, I'm not excused. It's not difficult to get married if you're poor. You just go to the courthouse. Again, like first off... And people are not poor in America. I mean... Blacks are... Have you seen... Have you seen Eastern Kentucky? If anything, Blacks are spoiled in America. Wow. Okay. They're given too much. They're over-served. They're not underserved. And that's part of the problem. I get that you feel that way. No, it's reality. I'm not seeing any evidence for this being real. There are many experts who can give you the evidence. What experts? I mean, you mentioned this... There's a guy who wrote this... There's some guy who wrote this book, Stop Helping Us. Go look that up. If you need all this evidence stuff... Okay. If this is not plain to you, then again, you're spiritually blind. And you're just... I don't know. You have a lack of common sense on that. Can we get into something here? And I did want to get this because I'm trying to get in your head and sort of understand where you're coming from here. Yeah. Okay. Because you keep saying like spiritually blind. You mentioned that you said you didn't think... You thought ad hominems were valid arguments. Can you explain why you think that? Because people are not honest. People are liars. Including the people who come up with statistics. They have an agenda. And evil people don't come up with good solutions to problems. So you don't have to get into the minutia of what their supposed solution is. You know that they're coming from the wrong place. All right. So the thing with an ad hominem argument is that just because people are capable of lying does not necessarily mean that what they have said is untrue. A good example of this might be a doctor. If a doctor tells you smoking is bad for your health, it will give you cancer if you keep smoking. And then later on you find the doctor on a smoke break. That doesn't mean like what he told you wasn't correct. It just means he's inconsistent. Ad hominem is a fallacy of relevance. It's not about like being nice or mean or whatever. What is being cited is not relevant to the specific argument at hand. So you can say for instance, Bill Gates. Bill Gates might come and give this opinion on how you should build a computer. You can't say, well, Bill Gates was hanging out with Epstein and we know what that means. So don't listen to what he says about your computer. Like I don't think we should be kind to Bill Gates because of what he may have done. What's your confusion about me with the ad hominem thing? Well, what I'm getting here is what it feels like to me is that you have a very totalizing way of looking at things where it's only one way or another and it's only from your perspective. And I think that like what's worrisome to me about that is we know that people, all of us, are not objective observers. That's why we have things like the scientific method. That's why we use social institutions to try to interact with reality in a more correct way. No, no, you don't just, you don't give credence to institutions. Yeah, a little bit, a little bit. They have their uses at times, but the institutions have been infiltrated by evil and corrupt people.  You don't fall for stuff like that. People are- I'm not the most institutional guy. I tend to think they're staffed with- And I leave stuff open. And I said, oh, maybe the CIA pulled some shenanigans. Yeah. So anyway, can we get back to the false accusations? Because I know we have like maybe less than 15 minutes left of this back and forth. Yeah, what false accusations? What are you talking about? The false accusations of the blacks against whites of this imaginary racism thing. There's constant example of, after example of hate crime hoaxes. And that's both in from the Black Lives Matter. You said earlier that there was no such thing as a hate crime. Yes. Can you explain that? Why is there no such thing as a hate crime? Because it's a smear. It's just like what you- It's similar to what you said about crack cocaine versus powder cocaine. You punish the person for the actual action that they did, not for the nasty word that they said while committing the crime. You punish the- And you punish harshly for the assault. If I say N word while I assault somebody, I should be punished harshly, sufficiently harshly for the assault, not for my freedom of speech. It's a sneaky way to get rid of people's freedom of speech. Okay. And try to mind read. You can see where you're getting that, but- And it's a power grab by the feds. I mean, it may be. That would be an appeal to motive fallacy though. But I don't care it is. Yeah. Okay. My point being though with regard to a hate crime, there is a good logical reason why you would come down more harshly on a hate crime than you would on just a normal non-hate crime. And that's because the person who is doing the hate crime is not simply attacking the person they're attacking. They're also committing an act of terrorism in the sense that they are looking to terrorize not just that person that they're attacking but everyone who looks like them. So it's not simply a crime against one person. Let me respond to that. When you are angry at someone, you call them a phato or an N word, or you point to something that they are and you pick at it. That's what happens. That's not an act of terrorism necessarily. And there are very selective and the politicians in the deep state, if you will, the bureaucrats who are prosecuting these hate crimes, they're very politically motivated.  We should get rid of that. And we should get rid of anti-discrimination laws because those are violations of people's basic freedoms. I mean, what sort of, how are those violations of people's freedoms? One, I have the freedom of speech to say the N word just not to hit somebody, right? And so they're, but they're wanna, the feds suddenly get involved if you say the N word while hitting somebody. Yeah. And they selectively enforce this stuff. Interracial violent crime, I think 80% of interracial violent crime is committed by blacks, but not the, but the hate crimes, it's mostly supposedly whites committing the, I mean, I would have, I can't speak to that because I don't have the hate crime statistics up in front of me. The statistics aren't important, but everybody knows that the blacks are more violent and especially more interracially violent. Okay. They just are. It's not, it's not controversial. It's just a fact. I mean, it's not, because first off, like, so most crime, very few crimes are actually interracial crimes. Most crimes happens within its own racial group because most crime happens towards people that you know, you know, it's people in your community. So most whites steal from whites, most blacks steal from other blacks. It's just, it's just how that works.  I mean, it's not a thing. It is out of control and you're pretending it's not. And then six times is likely to commit murder. Okay. There are also seven times more likely to be falsely convicted of murder. And maybe they're set up by their own. Who knows? I wouldn't be surprised. And then they're giving, they're also giving the opportunity to maybe some corrupt cops or corrupt prosecutors to do that stuff because the crime is so out of control. You'll clean up the crime and you'll clean up a lot of this stuff. I mean, the crime- It's only believable because they're committing the crimes. Aside from this last year, crime has been falling hugely. It's been falling- But it's still out of control in the black community. I mean, it's out of control among poor people. Because again, if you control for poverty, you get roughly about the same rates of violent crime. I don't know about that maybe. Yeah, I don't know about that. This is my statistics. I don't think that that's true. I don't buy statistics. Well, it seems like you may buy statistics when they are convenient for you to buy. I know, but so does everybody, honestly. That's why statistics are not viable. That's fair. Yeah, I will say that that is fair that we all do have a certain amount of self-serving bias. And we are inclined to believe things that are convenient to us, which is another reason why we need the scientific method. One or two other things I want to get in before we go to- This is from the Bible. This is from Jesse Lee Peterson. This is from Jordan B. Peterson. We have a culture of blind recriminations. We first take the plank out of your own eye before you try to help others with theirs. And you mentioned that, yes, anger is a problem in the Black Lives Matter movement, just as with every politically charged movement. But I don't see a big push to deal with that anger first and to deal with anger within. When I listened to Jesse Lee Peterson, who I'm on his network, the reason that I like him is because, and the reason I first followed him is because, or started attending his churches because it's about looking at yourself and dealing with the sin within. And then you can understand yourself. When you understand yourself, you can understand others. But when you look at, look without and look at statistics and all this history, supposed history stuff, which we all know that history gets manipulated, even the present day news is a mess. You have to look within it yourself. So that, what I can acknowledge in that, and I've heard this sort of be the change that you want to see in the world. I think there's a lot for that. Daisaku Aketa, the struggle for social justice, the struggle to win true freedom and equality is a major challenge for all humanity. We must continue to seek a more perfect solidarity for all humankind. Like this, I believe is the project of humanity. This is the great work of the 21st century. There is no other solution to the problem of racial discrimination other than an inner reformation in the depths of people's lives to transform the egoism that justifies the subjugation of others and replace it with humanism that strives for coexistence among all people. And you need to tell the blacks that. Well, I hang on there. Now, again, we're gonna talk about egoism. And the people who are willy-nilly crying racist against anybody. There's, yeah, so first off, you've never seen a leftist struggle session. I assure you, by the way, the left does try to deal with anger and race. I know, but they do it in the wrong way. Well, they do it internally. You just don't see it. They don't have real morals. They have a false imitation of morals. Okay, that's your opinion. It's reality though, too. It's reality to you. No, reality is real. You're experiencing it. But that's what I'm saying, yeah. So I think there is something to be said for looking within and trying to change the outside world by changing yourself. That's a very important Buddhist concept. So I can acknowledge that, but I also think that there is a danger of being too focused on yourself and not attempting to make a positive change within the world around you. Ultimately, the answer here is not one or the other. We got to do both at the same time. That's fair, but it's non-existent. This dealing with the anger of the black people is non-existent except for from Jesse Lee Peterson. I mean, I see why, I see that you feel that way. That's not the reality that I experience. Where's the dealing with their own anger? Where's the dealing with their messed up families? I mean, what I would recommend is, honestly, Soka Gakkai, my Buddhist organization, like we are constantly have members coming in who have had, and Soka Gakkai has a very large black population. We constantly have people coming in, both black and white and Indian or whatever. There was a guy in there who had to flee Nepal because the Maoists were bombing near him. And there was another person who dealt with drug addiction. There was another person who had had, who had been abused. There are people in their church groups whether it's Soka Gakkai or whatever, that deal with that. Or they deal with that with their therapist. If they truly dealt with it though, they would not support Black Lives Matter. I mean, I- It's radicalizing blacks and whites, by the way. It's radicalized blacks to kill cops, well documented, mass murders of cops in New York City, two cops murdered after Eric Garner, in Baton Rouge, Louisiana, multiple cops killed, I forget how many, within a week of that, Dallas, Texas. And then Dylan Roof himself, Dylan Roof, was radicalized after seeing the lies of the mainstream media, all this racism stuff.  And then, you know who else? That supposed crying Nazi, Christopher Cantwell, he overreacted, or maybe, I don't know if he overreacted but he reacted to all the hype about this poor, innocent victim thug, Trayvon Martin.  It just makes people angry.  What's happening is the actual circumstances of these people's lives are putting them into a position where they would then embrace a specific ideology. Christopher Cantwell in particular, because- I agree, he probably had a messed up life up to it. He had a poor character, whatever. But I'm talking about- Christopher Cantwell is just an ancap. These are people that I've argued with since 2014. And back when he was causing trouble and keen, Christopher Cantwell has a number of personal problems that led him to get where it was. It was not Trayvon Martin and he was racist- No, no, no, no. It was Trayvon Martin too. No, he says it's Trayvon Martin. But no, seriously, I've been in- That's what wakes this stuff awake, this stuff awakens people. Got just a couple more people. What I would say is it's not the ideology that is awakening people. I'm not talking about the ideology, the hype. The Black Lives Matter hype.  Rightly so, they was justifiable most of the time. Trayvon Martin was justified. That was the cop. You can feel like, well, you can feel like that's rightly so. It was self-defense. Imagine you're his mom or his dad or his brother. They got millions of dollars and they're leaching off of society now. Oh my God. That's their fault.  They were a messed up family. And he was raised poorly. But it's true. It's the truth and you have to tell it. It is your truth. No, it's reality. Look at how his family was. He had no family. He did not have a family. I mean, he definitely had a family. He got up pretty soon. He got into the Q and A, gentlemen. They were split up. This is a great chance for you guys to draw together some of the threads for tonight's debate and then we'll go into the Q and A. So given that we started with Brenton, that's right, Brenton, we'll start with you, Brenton. A couple of minutes to draw together the threads from tonight's debate and then we'll wrap up with James with his couple of minutes as well. Yeah. So I think overall what I sort of want to end on focusing here, and I want to point out what people saw within this debate. When I talked, I gave you specifics. I gave you a specific way that materially we saw the problem of racism be transmitted through the American justice system via specific actions from specific politicians causing specific bad outcomes. I gave you a problem and a diagnosis of how to fix it. I've had, I've heard throughout this debate some valid things but I've also heard a lot of very vague things that are not backed up by anything. These tend to feel very much to me like opinions. And I understand that James has these opinions and I'm not saying that the opinions are not entirely invalid but I think it's a bit myopic. I think, again, this is what is so important about empathy. Like everybody thinks when you talk about empathy, you're like, oh, wishy-washy. No, empathy is the ability to look at somebody else and see the world through their eyes. If you've got no empathy, you're the monkey putting a fish up the tree saying, oh, let me rescue you or you'll drown because the monkey doesn't swim in the water but the fish does. So I think it's really, really important that when we try to deal with major complicated sociopolitical movements and form opinions about the world and other people that we don't know that we be as charitable as possible and try our best to see things from another point of view because if we don't do that, we're gonna just wind up fighting and destroying each other. And I don't think that's healthy for anybody.  And so that's one of the other things. Now that said, I do want to acknowledge James, Hake, that I appreciate you coming out here and I appreciate you having this dialogue with me because this is a difficult thing to do and these are difficult things to talk about. So thank you for that. Yeah, so I'm done. You got it. And so it's my turn, right? Yep. Brenton mentioned specifics, but you can't really explain. I mean, just going into history about Nixon and Reagan and all that stuff, that's not, you didn't really explain proof basically that what they did or said was racist. And so the stuff that I'm saying, you can look it up for yourself if you have any doubts about it. And if you look into it, you'll find out that everything that I said was true. Empathy is a false value to replace love. And love is based on truth, but the Black Lives Matter movement and the idea of Black Lives Matter is not based on love, it's based on anger over and overreaction because they identified with the blackness of Trayvon Martin and Mike Brown. And so many other fake victims. It reminds me of that. And this empathy thing and understanding and trying to better yourself, it's nice that leftists are trying to do that. Some of them may wake up out of that and come into reality, but much of the time, even on the right too, much of the time, it's just an empty groping about in the darkness and you're never gonna find the truth or real love. It's simple, at root, it's not a complicated issue. Although, yes, you can get into complicated things with making laws and all that stuff, but at root, it's about love versus hate, truth versus lies, right versus wrong, and Black Lives Matter is wrong.    And it shows how easily fooled, it shows the weakness of our country, how easily fooled and morally weak many American people, political, academic, and media establishment in the corporate world are. And so that's eye-opening. Communists and immoral capitalists, because capitalists, we can't have freedom without morality and right now they want freedom with no morality. The ACLU, these people who want to deal with the cops because we have our constitutional rights, that's fine, but we have an immoral out-of-control world. And it is the blacks, but it's not just the blacks, it's spreading because the family situation, the immorality situation is growing pretty out of control. The shamelessness in our country is just a mess. We'll jump. And yeah, go for it. We will jump into the Q&A. Want to say, folks, you can hear plenty more. If you want to hear the last, this is a cliffhanger. If you want to hear the last few words James had to say or the last little bit Brenton wanted to say before I jumped in, you can click on their links below. Folks, we really do appreciate our guests. And one way that you can encourage them is if you will click on their links also. Their links are in the podcast description box as well as we put all of our debates on podcasts within 24 hours of the live show. And we always include our guest links there as well. Also want to let you know, folks, what we're going to do is go into Q&A. I am going to move through these fasts as we've got a good amount of questions. So we're going to jump right into it. Kevin Kratman thinks so much as blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. BLM is Marxist in the worst way. Hey, should get reparations for my enslaved Roman ancestors, Romani ancestors and Armenian ancestors. Brenton, what are your thoughts? So first of all, no, Pasadists are Marxists in the worst way.  Like there are a couple of founders that have mentioned that they might be Marxists. Like if you spend any time around Marxists, you know them very quickly because they've all got sticks up their butt and they talk about like dialectical materialism and stuff. You don't see a lot of that out of BLM. There may be a couple of them, but that's not a thing. As far as getting reparations. So I am going to come out and I'm going to say that in general, I'm not for reparations in the form of money because I think that that's too easy for people to trick someone else out of. Kind of like with Freddie Gray, getting his settlement and then having it stolen from him. What we need to do is we need to create an environment where everyone has an equal chance to survive and thrive. And that will include not a redistribution of money, but I honestly think what we need to do is we need to have a more equal distribution of access to property and to the means of existence. If we can do that, I think we can then go about setting past wrongs as right as possible, but also past wrongs, it's in the past, we can never make up for that. We can only try and work towards a better future together. Amazing. Next one, 1-888-I'm-tellin' says, thanks for hosting this debate, modern day debate. This super chat is dedicated to HAKE and the great black people or great black hope. We think we know who that is. By the way, there is a past debate where Jesse was here on the show where it's under our best of modern day debate playlist. So if you want to check that out, he has been here. They say, keep on telling the truth. You got a fan out there, James. Nice, check out the Professor Dave debate that you hosted with Jesse Lee Peterson, that's cool. It was a juicy one. That seriously was one of my favorites. That one was like optimal level intensity where it was like just the lid was about to blow off the entire debate. So it was amazing. Jime Lee. You should check out the Ben Burgess debate with James on the HAKE report as well. Oh, nice, appreciate that, man. Extra juicy and reminder, our guests are linked in the description, folks. Jimee Winnie, thanks for your super chat says Lord blah, blah. I don't know. Do you guys get that? Is this some sort of insight joke? I'm not sure. Next up, the bat man says, this is an old. Brenton, I'm happy your wife's boyfriend gave you permission to come and debate tonight. This is a good one. It never gets old. Yeah, my wife does not have a boyfriend. But I would hope that if she did, he would give me permission because, you know. Oh, the Red Skull says racism doesn't exist. Nice. It definitely does. It very obviously does. He's right, it does not. I think what's being mistaken here is that this is a thing of how language works. There are different ways that words are used, both colloquially, like what we have in the dictionary and also like technically by experts. So oftentimes what will happen is is that people will do this sort of appeal to definition game. It happened in my debate with Sargon of Akkad where I pointed out that sex and gender were two different things. And Sargon of Akkad said, well, the definition of woman as adult human female, therefore, when, no, you just said not, but with more words. So you really watch out for that appeal to definition fallacy because it is ultimately a circular argument.  Call that, you know, basism. I don't know. I don't care what you call it. It's obviously a real thing. But you're saying that, are you saying that the results be having the racial disparity makes it racist or the root, the motive was racist or both? I mean, so what, this gets into a much longer conversation about like the state as in the military and the police and like what function it serves. Racism is generated by sovereign power in an attempt to stay within power and to manage populations that it believes are unruly. So you don't see racism as wrong because a nation should protect itself and serve its interests. So here's the issue. I don't see, when I'm talking about something being right or wrong, I'm talking about it more in the sense of like how it relates to, I suppose it's physical effect on existence. My issue with the state's racism is that it is a creation of like the freaking Victorians that was made to justify their rule. And it just continues doing it today because these systems are self perpetuating. It's like the story of the monk who was meditating and one day in a cat walked across his path. So then every day he went and he got the cat and he would tie it up before he meditated. And this went on for quite a number of years and the monk was very old, so he died. And then the other monks came and they continued after he died to tie the cat to the tree every day while he was meditating. And then one day the cat died. And so the monks went out and got a kitten and tied it to the tree. Like these systems are self perpetuating. So that, I hate to do this, gentlemen, but we gotta go to the next one. I see this foolish. Especially after Brent and talking about his cats for like 20 minutes. Robbie L. Brown, thanks for your super chat says, white apologist, that's Mun never made him cut his hair. What?  Is this true, Brenton?  I didn't grow my hair long until I was like in the Appalachian Trail made in Georgia. And I've kept it like that ever since. This was grown on a mountain, it's staying up here. You got it in. Robbie L. Brown also says, I'm a cracker. Thank you for that. Is there, are you allowed to say that on? All right, Earl's goes. Earl says $5 for Brenton's haircut. Next up, thanks for your question says, what do you think I'm telling us? Facts, hey, we are in our current state of affairs due to an extra of cowards. If only people would notice that what most of those in charge have in common. Dot, dot, dot. Oh boy, that's, he's being anti-Semitic. Wait, they corrected it. They said facts, hey, we are in our current state of affairs due to excess of cowards. If only people would notice what most of those in charge have in common. Yeah, I'll tell you what most of those in charge have in common. They're all rich. Gotcha. It's good versus evil. They say again, you cannot have an equal society if certain groups of people in that society are allowed to say a word that others in that society are forbidden to say. Thank you. I mean, allowed how like there's, so certain societies will have specific social customs of like what, how you're supposed to act and like when you're supposed to do it, it will vary depending upon the time and the values of that society. When I'm talking about an equal society, I'm talking about power. I'm talking about overall power. Equality is not sameness. And I don't think it's a good idea for us to try to approach every problem as if it is the same. Rather, I think what we need to do is we need to build the society where each individual has roughly the same amount of power as every other individual and we don't allow anyone to rise above. Because once you do that, then it becomes self-justifying. You got it. And thank you very much for this question. This one coming in from bubblegumgun says, if slurs are not acceptable on that same principle, no quote, meaning unquote words should be acceptable, which applies to slurs from the left.  Well, as we talked about with, even if I am a hypocrite that doesn't mean I'm wrong, it just means I may be inconsistent.  Commie, are you a communist? I'm an anarchist. I am interested in the Caproc-Conite anarchist tradition. Some people do call that anarcho-communism, but it's very different than what you think of when you think of a communist. When you think of a communist, you probably think of Stalin, Mao, the USSR.  Somebody who's Christian allies. Well, hang on. So you've got to see that because you're couching everything in these normal terms beforehand. Like, you've got to admit you're doing some self-deception there. Like, so, communist in the sense that I think a society, a classless, stateless society based upon the mutual ownership of the means of production where everyone essentially, you know, gives, does their best from each according to his ability to each according to his need. I think that that's a nice ideal to strive for. Yeah, that's the problem. But like- Nice is wrong. Nice is female-minded. That's what communism means, female-minded. I don't mean nice and calm. I mean, nice is indesirable. No, it's not desirable. As in good. It seems to me to be a good ideal to strive for. But no, it's like, the type of communist most people think of when they think of it is they think of like a fricking tanky. They think of the Marxist who believes in a very specific ideology called Marx Leninism that has been, you know, that has been in like countries like the USSR. Whereas like what I'm into is, and most interested at this moment, more came out of like the more radical currents of the French Revolution. I think of Patrice Cullors, Joe Biden, Cortez, Bernie Sanders, Nancy Pelosi, those are all communists because they're liars. Oh my God. We need over a conversation about this. We maybe around two someday, but bubble gum gum says, Brent, do you honestly believe in literal Buddhist gods? No, Buddhism doesn't have any gods. Next up, yeah, the next one. I would like to go into detail on it, but I won't. Robbie L. Brown says BLM equals BAA. What is BAA? And then they say Lucifer and then Enmalo. I don't know what this means. I don't know either. This one coming in from 188, I'm telling says a document what Hague is talking about on my channel. It's at epidemic levels. This one from bubble gum gun says that the abolishing of hate is the abolishing of choice. Yeah, you should allow people the freedom to so-called be racist and stuff. Nowadays there is a lack of freedom. And when I say we should deal with the hatred, yes, allow people to be hateful, but call it out and encourage people to face themselves. Okay, so there are two kinds of freedom essentially when we're talking about freedom and liberty. It's positive freedom and negative freedom. The positive freedom is freedom to actually do what you want. Negative freedom is to not have somebody else messing with you. The thing is, is that negative freedom is pretty much useless if you don't have a corresponding amount of positive freedom with it. The freedom to give as much money to the political candidate of your choice, it means nothing to a homeless man under a bridge. So when we talk about freedom in a free society, what it's about is about maximizing both for the greatest number of people. And sometimes that may involve a slight imposition of negative freedom or a way of encouraging positive freedom from the society on a macro level. So basically what I would say in the long run is is that the right to swing your fist ends at my nose. And when people are hurting other people for bad reasons, that should be restrained by the rest of society because that makes us all more free. You got it, Anne. Thank you very much for this question. This one coming in from Odey Red Skull. Didn't see a question, but let me know if you had one you wanted to attach to it. Oflameo says, question for both, how many laws exist? Too many. I agree, too many. You got it, Anne. Odey Red Skull says, Brenton, go to the hood, you'll be scared straight. Oh my God, I lived in the hood for 10 years. Nobody's more gangster than Brenton. Next up, thank you very much for this one coming in from Phillip Alvarez says, Brenton, have you heard of Thomas Sowell? Yes, I have.  And a lot of the arguments that he makes are actually communist arguments. One of this big ones is like, oh, what's your fair share of something someone else worked for? That is literally a Marxist argument.  And when that didn't happen, he just switched sides. Like if you have any familiarity with like tanky ideology and Marx Leninism and you read Thomas Sowell, it is hilarious. Cause he talks exactly like them, but it's to the opposite end. And he told the truth with it. And Odie Redskill said, I thought communists couldn't tell the truth. He must have switched.  This one from Robbie. He switched is entirely self-interested. I don't think he believes in anything. You're projecting again. You don't know that. Robbie L. Brown says, can't wait for Higgs next debate on this channel. Well, you're always welcome back, James. Like it's, this has been a fun one. We've got more questions folks. This one coming in from 108. I'm telling says all I can say is this discussion has been truly amazing. Yeah. Thank you. 108, I'm telling, I have a feeling a lot of the things you were tweeting were heavily anti-Semitic, but. Were they tweeting before the day? No, I'm sorry, I'm tweeting. Oh boy. We also have things very much. This Anthony Biondi, thank you very much for your question. It says modern day debate rocks. I'm black. Thanks for your kind words.  Have you ever experienced it yourself? I grew up amongst Hispanics and Asians, not so many blacks. And once the bad kids came from a real Vista school into Gidley school in seventh and eighth grade, I saw that yes, indeed the Mexicans do have harbor, many of the bad kids went, at least, harbor resentment towards the whites. But no, that's not racism. It's racism does not exist.   They think they do, but they don't. Well, actually, I'm with you on that question. Every evil person plays favorites. And it's not wrong for a nation to play favorites on that for their nation.  It's not wrong for, it's not necessarily wrong to play favorites, but every evil person does play favorites. But that is though they actually love their own though. There was a Jesse Peterson, when I was producer, I brought on this guy who wanted to come on the show. He was this white nationalist guy, so called anti Semitic. And he said that he would kill his children if they were to date another race. That's not love for your own family. The people who are into their race the most are blacks. And that's partly because they don't have family. And so they get into the gangs and the race thing and they're struggling to find a sense of identity. They need the love of the fathers, like Jesse Peterson says.  I think there is that that tracks with a lot of what I've seen. As opposed to blacks supposedly being more into their race. You don't see that? Here's the thing. You don't have the data? You need the data? I don't have the statistics on that. But what I would say is, the US government, for instance, with regard to the Native Americans, they thought that like the way to conquer a people was to outlaw their culture. American Indians. Yeah, exactly. So with the natives, like they outlawed the ghost dance, for instance, and they tried to suppress and as a result of that, people feel that attack and want to push back against it. So, if say a population of people who were former slaves and then after being slaves, were subject to Jim Crow laws and after Jim Crow laws were subject to mass incarceration, maybe they're gonna be a little bit more about their culture because there is this attempt to destroy it coming from the outside. And maybe if you want- Blacks don't even know about that stuff. You don't have to know about it. You don't have to experience it. These are natural reactions that people- No, they're brainwashed in it, man. They're brainwashed in this. I don't think so. But okay. They totally are. Appreciate it. Robby L. Brown says, long hair is obviously from Indiana in insufferable state. I am definitely not from Indiana, though I did live in Kentucky for seven years. You got it in full. And Indiana is an insufferable state. No one should ever go there.  What? Repeat it? Oh man, it doesn't make sense to me. He says, my crime, Chad, and justified your crime, cringe, hyphen, hake. It must have been an auto-correct thing. Oh, I thought maybe they were calling you a Chad. I like the idea of crime, Chad.  This is Crystal L. He says, hake is one of the smartest and bravest white man on the side of heaven. Thank you. It's nice of her to say. And bubblegum gun says, James, hake wants, okay, I don't know what that means, I'm not reading that. Back to the human says, James, please make an effort to understand the experience of black Americans. There are really good books about the subject. Tell the blacks to understand the whites. And this one's coming in from QW. Everybody, understand everybody, just do it right now. QW says, what the? And then shaggy boy says, it's hard to do that one. That I really, that's like maybe one of my favorite Jesse phrases. Shaggy boy says, Jake owned Ben Burgess. Who's Jake? Sometimes they call me Jake or Hank or Haake or James. Oh. I don't feel like that conversation was enough. I felt like that was, you guys were just kind of talking and figuring out each other. I didn't, it didn't seem particularly contentious to me. Cool. And totally remember it, but it was fun. I want to say, we love Dr. Burgess. Ben is a really good friend of modern day debate. Like he's helped us a lot. And so that is not in any way. I was trying to figure out what it meant. And by the way, James, who got Ben Burgess on modern day debate? That's true. My de facto producer, Dylon. Oh no, you got, okay. I thought you were talking about the Haake Report. I thought you were talking about the Haake Report. I have to give credit where it's due.  But one time, Britain's like, can I debate like socialism, capitalism, man? That's my impression of Britain. And I was like, yeah, sure. I was like, I don't know who would want to. He's like, I'll find somebody.  And he's like, I got Dr. Friedman to come on. He said, oh, come on. I was like, are you serious? David D. Friedman. So really cool. He was so cool. DL, thanks for your super chat. I think there's a question missing. Just put it as a normal chat if you want me to read it and I'm happy to read it. Made by Jim Bup says, Brenton, who determines what good is in your preferred system? Everybody does. I think like, so as far as my preferred system goes, what I want is liberty for everybody on like the individual community level to where no one's wielding a large amount of coercive power over anyone else. So as much as can happen within reality. So ideally any group of people who have decided to associate with each other would determine what's good for them. And we just build up from there. Straight Serum says, communism equals no motivation and no freedom, anti-USA. I mean, it depends on what you're talking about. I would say that the USSR was very motivated. And I don't think they had a great amount of freedom, but they were very motivated. And they did wind up becoming a superpower that could rival the United States within just two or three decades. And utterly obliterated the Nazi war machine. So I don't think you can argue that communism, that that form of communism like has no motivation. You might argue that it has no freedom and I'd agree with you, but definitely has a great amount of motivation. How was it for the people? Awful. Like, I mean, it was better than the Tsars. I think that's what he meant. Yeah. I mean, again, I think the USSR was a step up from the Tsars. It was feudal economy and absolute monarchy, but there was a huge human cost to how quickly they modernized. You got it. And thank you very much for this question coming in from, Travis Peas says, this guy has a lot of pretty words and scientific terms. The intellectual mind cannot be reasoned with. Let him go. He's lost, referring to Brenton. Wait a minute. Take with the fact. The intellectual mind cannot be reasoned with. It's like the only thing intellectuals do is reason. No, they rationalize.  That's what intellectuals do, including many of the conservatives and many of the Christians. Intellectualism is a trap. I mean, to a certain sense, I can see what you're talking about. Like cults, for instance, can pull in really smart people a little more easily than they can pull in dumb people because... Yeah, look at Black Lives Matter, the Democrat Party. Biggest cults. Anyway, go ahead.  But like, you know, like... So yeah, so sometimes smart people can rationalize into something, but I don't think that that's overall a thing for critical thinkers. I think that oftentimes people who are devoted to reason tend to be people that you can reason with. It just may be very, very difficult. Juicy. And this question coming in from... Jamie Winnie says, Brenton talks a lot, but no conclusion. I think it might be Jamie, but I'm not sure. I always read it Jamie, but you might be right. Oh, at least that's Jamie Winnie. Sorry, Jamie. I don't know. Well, what do you mean no conclusion? Like, what conclusion was I supposed to come to exactly? I think they're saying, that you're saying a lot without saying anything. Oh, no, I'm saying a lot and saying a lot. You know, it just may be flying over your head. Amazing. Sassy, Brenton. And Earl's ghost says, happy birthday, James. Is it your birthday, James? Yes, it's been my birthday since July 17th. We've been celebrating. It's an ongoing meme. I get it. Good to be birthday. Thank you. Amazing. And it also makes me think of like, one of the funniest things I've ever heard on the internet was when I think it was Earl, who first called you Hank. That's like one of my favorite clips. But anyway, okay.  Debate me, brah. I'm not sure what that even means. It means you support the divine right of kings. Kings, okay. Maybe Jesus is king. Yes. You should have a conversation with me about Christian anarchism at some point. Tolstoy, that'd be fun. Okay. Juicy. And this one from made by Jim Bob says, James, Hank, do you think Ben Shapiro knows how to change a tire or fix the sink? I don't know. He looks like he could be a, he could be manly. He might. I don't know. I don't know. Did you see that picture of him holding like the one piece of wood from home to home? Brenton likes that picture. And this one coming in from Connor, the stoner, Lynn says, Brenton is the last one, folks. So we gotta wrap it up. But they say, Brenton, do you think that if racial disparities in say, police brutality were eliminated, that we would still have a problem if so, why race centric? Racial disparities in police brutality were eliminated. Can you read that one more time? I just want to make sure I understand what he's saying. Gladly they say, Brenton, do you think that if racial disparities in say, police brutality were eliminated, that we would still have a problem. And if so, why race centric? Okay, so if you eliminated racial disparities within police brutality and police were beating everyone, you would no longer have a race problem, but you'd have a police beating people problem. So yay, we fixed one problem, but out of the frying pan and into the fire. I would say that what we should focus on is police brutality overall.  I don't think police brutality even exists.  They're resisting arrest at eight to nine times as frequently as other races. We need to deal with the black issue. It's the elephant in the room. You know, cops tend to say that people are resisting arrest when they just want to arrest them. Like when I was- There's corruption and that's human, that's brutality, but this, usually it's just excessive force, but it's not brutality. Is this just a drama word? You don't mind it emotional word? Potato, potato, like if, yeah, something that you might consider like brutality or excessive. Like when the cop need me in the spine and threw me into the motorcycle, like I wouldn't call that necessarily police brutality. I think- I like you, but I don't know if I believe you. Oh, okay. Well, I mean, I was important for it and stuff. I won, actually. That was at the six month anniversary of Occupy. Me and my buddy walked down the street. He was wearing a Barack Obama mask. I was wearing a Mitt Romney mask and we linked hands and walked through the police line. You should have been at Occupy. Oh man, dude, Occupy was such a great time. You really, I wish you'd gone that because I will tell you this about Occupy. No one can know about Occupy if they weren't there because everyone in the media, right, left, it did matter. They were just lying through their teeth about the movement and it's disappointing. All right, want to say thank you very much. Both James and Brenton, it's been a true pleasure to host you guys, seriously, it's been really fun and we want to let you know, folks, our guests, James and Brenton are linked in the description. We also want to give a huge thank you because we never thank you enough. Thank you too, the moderators, seriously appreciate it. As we always do, folks, we want to encourage you to attack the arguments instead of the person and of course we want to stay within YouTube terms of service as we're thankful. YouTube has helped us grow a lot. They recommend our videos like crazy so we really do want to say, hey, we'll work with them. I mean, they've given us a platform but also want to say thank you so much, folks, for watching. We hope you feel welcome whether you be politically far left, politically far right or one of the many strange creatures in between. We are glad you are here. So with that, I will be back in a moment with some sweet updates on upcoming debates that you don't want to miss. We've got some juicy ones, folks. It's going to be great. So with that, thanks James and Brenton. It's been a true pleasure. Thank you, guys, and thanks for the chat, too. Yeah, this was fun. Thank you very much, James. And James, I was a little worried about this one just because I didn't know James that well at this point. I'd been wanting, I'd been thinking, Mollin inviting you on the show. And so I'm glad that James Lund or Kunz of Modern Day Debate made this happen. This is even better than what I was thinking. Well, if you ever want to have me on, let me know. And probably be happy to come on and talk to you a little bit more because, you know, we definitely disagree, but you're very interesting. OK, man. You, too. 100%. And hey, for real, if that happens, let me know and I'll retweet it because we do want to point people to other debate platforms and things like that. So for real, I'm very sure about that. How can we contact each other? Are you on Twitter or Facebook? Yeah, I'm on Twitter. OK, I'll follow you on Twitter and you can send me a message, my DMs are open. Sounds good. Oh, man. Well, thanks, everybody. I'll be back in just a moment, folks, as we have many more juicy upcoming debates coming up. And with that, thanks for everybody, for being with us, everybody. And I'll be right back in just a moment.