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What's good Josh the boy Ross back again with another video? So we're gonna check out the awful degeneration X versus brothers of destruction match. Now. This is a match I've never actually seen in entirety I Remember when this match was about to happen. I think I ended up missing the pay-per-view because of the time differential from when it happened Overseas so I ended up missing the pay-per-view, but I saw clips of it And I saw people talking about it and how hurt people were because this match Was just just dreadful the build up to it was pretty good the hype for it was pretty good But the it's just the execution of this match was just God Awful and just seeing the clips alone made me want to just stay away from watching it in its entirety So we're gonna check this out. This is by the channel wrestling bios. Definitely go give them a Subscription check them out as well This should be an interesting one. I want to see how he breaks this down Once again by wrestling bios go subscribe to that channel link to the original video will be down to down below Let's get into this debacle of a match, man I like this mashup. That's that's cool. I like this mashup. That was a cool little mashup how they did that The brothers of destruction and DX this is gonna be a tough one for fans of the attitude era and even afterwards It didn't get any better than these two teams and even if you weren't a fan of these guys They were still very important in shaping the WWF or WWE and helping the company in terms of popularity It's interesting how both teams began their on-screen relationships around the same time period with Sean Hunter and The Undertaker All being present for the debut of the Kain character and as those early days continued on DX Kain and Taker were all Intertwined right up until the original DX collapsed in 1998 for many people Degeneration X and the brothers of destruction were a part of their childhoods All four men became cornerstones of WWE and they had an insane amount of fan support Whether they were good guys or bad guys quite simply they were four legends of the company Time moves on though and time doesn't wait for anybody as the WWE evolved over the years So did the professional and personal lives of these four legends Triple H became way more hands-on behind the scenes Glenn Jacobs would become the mayor of Knox County Which is really crazy to think the devil's favorite demon is a mayor Who would have thought? Tired and he began working with the talent at NXT and The Undertaker Well, the dead man was still competing in the ring searching for a final match that would satisfy his desire to leave wrestling on a high note in 2018 the idea of DX getting back together to face the brothers of destruction sounded impossible Mainly due to HBK's retirement and Glenn Jacobs getting so heavily involved in politics But strange things can happen when the WWE go to Saudi Arabia. Yeah, that bottom bottom dollar, man I'm telling you when it comes to these Saudi shows I can't wait for them to be out of their little deal that they have and I don't how many years they have left on their deal But once they leave on and done with that No more no more, please they these shows have become so I guess you can say Taxing to the overall product because they put on matches that Really their fantasy booking matches matches that's not supposed to happen or should happen in the funny shows because They requested Simple as that Simple as that people way past their prime in matches that they should not be in because they're requested And indeed it felt strange when a DX versus brothers of destruction match was announced for the crown jewel 2018 show let's take a look at what could only be described as a trainwreck match that maybe happened at all on November 2nd 2018 Let's get into it man When the undertaker tired Shawn Michaels at WrestleMania 26 it felt a little bittersweet for many fans Yeah, I'm reading myself Still putting on incredible performances all the way up to 2010 Even outperforming many of the younger main eventors on the roster But Shawn thought it was time to go and he talked about ending his career on a high note HPK stated the best way to go is to leave fans wanting more and he didn't want to be another guy who couldn't perform the way He once did during the twilight years of his career So while I and I'm sure many others wanted Shawn to hang around and have more matches His decision to leave while still being the showstopper in the main event was understandable Yeah, but his send-off at that moment was great. I even though I wanted to see more of him The black those two matches he had at WrestleMania With the Undertaker where chef's kiss so good so legendary in the last match he had Obviously with the Undertaker ending his career was it was great It ended off a legendary career And I think a lot of people wanted to see him back for one more match But I think people were okay knowing that the match that he did have was fantastic, man Rumours began circling during 2016 regarding a potential Shawn Michaels return The 2017 Royal Rumble was being held in Shawn's hometown of San Antonio, Texas inside the Alamo Dome The event marked the 20th anniversary of Shawn beating Psycho Sid to reclaim the World Wrestling Federation Championship in the same venue And the rumors went into overdrive when AJ tweeted out a pay-per-view mock-up featuring HPK and AJ standing in front of the San Antonio skyline Unfortunately, this match didn't happen But Shawn and AJ did talk about the potential matchup on table for three a WWE Network show where superstars discuss practically anything while having dinner What Shawn says to AJ is very fascinating and we can learn a bit more about Shawn's mindset here when it came to returning for one more match On the table for three show that featured Kevin Nash AJ Styles and Shawn Michaels AJ said he got interested in a Shawn Michaels match when he heard HPK was attending the performance center AJ wanted the higher-ups to ask Shawn if he wanted to do something at the Royal Rumble Nash said he saw AJ's tweet and thought the match would be sweet And Shawn says that he too saw the graphic and Shawn admired the fact that AJ was keeping his name out there by tweeting out the mock-up HPK then revealed that writers had previously pitched ideas for Shawn to come back But this Royal Rumble match in the Alamo Dome was actually pitched to Shawn by Vince McMahon himself HPK liked the idea of wrestling styles He rubbed his hands together while thinking about what kind of match the heartbreak kid and the fun Oh, imagine AJ Styles and a returning Shawn Michaels in a match. Oh Oh Nothing else needs to be said that would have been that would have been hella entertaining Oh my god, that would be normal one could potentially have and what story they could tell in the ring Shawn founded a fascinating prospect He knew he and AJ would have to work their tails off But ultimately Shawn admitted that he couldn't wrestle to the level he once could and there's an awkward silence here When Shawn asks AJ and Nash who would go over in that match who wins in AJ Styles versus Shawn Michaels Yeah, if Shawn wins it does nothing for AJ and AJ doesn't look good if AJ wins Then Shawn's legacy maybe gets further tarnished due to coming out of retirement just to take a loss in San Antonio Plus, he thought it would be anti climactic as well AJ agrees with Michaels saying it would be a risk to go out again after having such a good match with the undertaker True and Shawn then says that he looks at the whole story arc of the heartbreak kid from throwing Marty Janetti through the glass at the barbershop to defying the undertaker before the last tombstone pile driver HPK considers that whole stretch the story of his career another match would sit Independently away from that whole arc and it would also feel pointless AJ compares this to the rocky 5 movie saying it was unnecessary So the big takeaway here is that Shawn felt a return match would need to fit into the story of his character And it also sounds like Shawn didn't want to come back just to take another loss We're going to understand this soon Story arcs of course were not the only reason for working a show in Saudi Arabia, but more on this in a moment Absolutely out of the blue a match between Triple H and the Undertaker was announced for the Super Showdown 2018 event in Melbourne, Australia Hunter came out of the ring on the August 20th And he said after watching SummerSlam He got the edge to lace up his boots again and once again be the game He thought this would happen And that's why when Vince called him a few weeks prior to pitch a match at Super Showdown Hunter agreed when Vince said this Match would be against the Undertaker the game wasn't so sure the end of an era Hell in a Cell match He and taker had meant a lot to Triple H and when he Shawn and taker stood on the entrance way at the end of that match It changed all three men Shawn would disappear for good The Undertaker streak would eventually come to an end and Triple H would put on a suit The era really did end that night and everything changed Hunter thought about it And he agreed to do the match only if the Undertaker agreed to be the phenom one more time a Bygone era was gonna return this Super Showdown match will feature the Undertaker in the game And it will be one last time the following week Shawn Michaels announced that he was going to Australia too So we can see the match in person HBK then said the Undertaker's chances weren't so good this time around saying is the Undertaker streak ended and some of that Mystique has been taken away from the phenom Triple H on the other hand is still the game and still the cerebral assassin And Triple H has a lot more left in the tank in comparison to the Undertaker The dead man shows up and taker says Shawn just made this thing personal Takers already put Shawn and Hunter down and the degenerates can't accept it Shawn only thinks Triple H is gonna win because taker took away Shawn's career and Shawn says he's stayed away from the ring Because he's a man of his word because he respects the fans and because he respects the Undertaker This was a good segment. I remember watching this. This was a pretty cool They're back and forth seeing them interact with each other again on the microphone. This was this was really Nicely built up chance one more match and Shawn says he hears that in every arena he goes to He gets people asking him for one more match backstage He turns down millions of dollars every year and he's done it all out of respect for the Undertaker Undertaker wonders if it's really respect or is it fair? That was a good line does come out of retirement There's only one guy he can come after and that's the dead man and the dead man says he would put Shawn down again HPK knows it the fans know it taker knows it But for now taker's gonna focus on putting Shawn's buddy down again at the super showdown event This promo here was obviously the strongest hint so far that michaels was planning to have another match But it still in a way felt unlikely after what Shawn said in interviews following WrestleMania 26 If we go back to what Shawn said to AJ on table for three in the context of storylines It kind of made sense Shawn versus the Undertaker again wouldn't feel independent from hbk's story arc It would fit right in at the end and it was simple yet brilliant Shawn says he's staying away out of respect taker says Shawn's just afraid of him So it's almost like taker invited Shawn to come out of retirement and try his luck again Over the next two weeks it was revealed that Shawn Michaels was gonna stand in triple H's corner for the Melbourne match So the Undertaker announced that Kain was gonna return and stand in his corner Kain had been active in wwe during the late 2017 and early 2018 while making a few sporadic appearances through the year But he was definitely winding down considerably to focus on a new career path On the raw before super showdown then Shawn Michaels warned Kain not to step in the ring or get involved because the big red machine Will have to deal with the heartbreak kid Kain then appeared behind Michaels and Shawn got floored after a big right hand The lights then went out in the arena and the undertaker then stood over Shawn when the lights came back on Undertaker was just about the tombstone Shawn but triple H ran to the ring The game fought both brothers of destruction, but on this night DX It was just interesting seeing Hbk without his hair. It kind of it just made me realize how time is really just Flown by granny. He didn't have to cut his hair, but it was just interesting to see that. I was like, yo We're really getting up in age here man. Shawn Michaels with no hair. It's wild Good enough Shawn and hunter take choke slams and the undertaker decides to tombstone triple H for good measure before leaving the ring with his little brother Super showdown was already getting panned by critics and fans before the event even took place And that's because it was sandwiched between hell in a cell in september and evolution in october It felt superfluous to a lot of fans and it just added to an already bloated WWE calendar Triple H versus the undertaker should have felt like a bigger deal and had the match taken place at WrestleMania Then it might have felt a bit more important Yeah WWE decided to do it at this show and so did the game and so did the phenom Hbk couldn't help himself. He jumped on the apron a few times and he distracted the undertaker more than once He would then get physical with the dead man and kane would have to try and stop Shawn while also trying to maintain some order Soon though kane would get more involved and he would try to make things difficult for hunter So kane ended up taking sweet chin music and triple H put the big red machine for a table The undertaker gets the better of hunter and Shawn was forced to watch his friend take a few hard chair shots Michaels tried the reason with the undertaker and when that didn't work Michaels got inside the ring and he got punched in the nose Still though all this bought triple H enough time to hit a spine buster, but taker kicked out of the cover Shawn handed triple H's sledgehammer kane passed the chair to the undertaker Hunter waxed the chair and the chair waxed the phenom But there's no referee to count the pinfall in the end kane and Shawn get in the ring kane gets taken out with a low blow the undertaker tries to tombstone Michaels But he takes a sledgehammer shot from triple h leading the hbk performing the superkick and triple h ends it with a pedigree It was a bit messy and yeah It was without a doubt the weakest undertaker versus triple h match to ever take place on pay per view I don't think I ever even saw this one either live. I think I ended up watching this afterwards and it wasn't uh It wasn't one of those things where it was like It was it was okay. It was serviceable Uh, I don't know it just it didn't have that effect that you would think These four guys the history that they all have you would think it would it would be a a different type of feeling you would get from that But I don't know it just came off. It's like, all right Well, they got it done, but it doesn't seem like this is over Seems like they'll probably end up booking something else with these guys But I don't know it just was like if they could have ended it here Probably would have been okay, but we all know That bottom dollar man it speaks volumes to how things get played Uh, well, well when vinswick man was in charge, I don't know. It may be a little bit different now With all the interference truly hurting the overall flow of the match But it was done like this for a reason It looks like dx and the brothers of destruction are gonna let bygones be bygones as degeneration x helped the brothers to Their fate for a celebration, but can and taker then attack dx and it's made clear that this isn't over H gets tombstone and hbk gets put through a commentary table Once that happened, I knew I'll probably do something else the following night and they talked about respect Hunter talked about how he respected Shawn Michaels How Shawn showed respect by sticking to his word and staying retired even when everyone else wanted in the wrestle In hbk talked about how your respect for someone can change over time Shawn had a long think about super showdown on the flight back from Australia He thought about how he honored his word not to wrestle out of a respect that didn't even exist So when the flight landed triple h asked the hbk a question Are you ready? Hunter knows that Shawn's ready But he wonders if the brothers of destruction are ready for degeneration x at crown jewel Shawn and hunter revealed their degeneration x shirts And they bring a formal return to the faction here and fans pop when they realize the hbk Maybe just announced his return to the ring. I remember watching that. I was like, okay. This is interesting. Okay Even though what we just saw was could have been a little executed better Shawn is actually coming out of retirement one more time To have a dx versus brother of destruction match It's pulling on my nostalgia heartstrings, but you know what? I'm here for it. Once again, didn't get to see it I'm glad I didn't because it probably would attain it My my my view on all these guys in their later years In the show, Michael Cole makes it official when he announces the match along with a match graphic And then the internet went into overdrive Remember how Shawn talked about his return having to be right creatively and it had to make sense for him To want to come back. Well all that was thrown out the window because something that can't be argued Is the fact that a lot of money was and still is involved in these Saudi Arabia shows No matter what you may think of these shows It's no secret that superstars who make these one-off appearances at these kind of events get paid very well Fans didn't give a shit about any creative reasons for Shawn coming out of retirement There were zero discussions about the aj styles conversation at table for three It went straight to money and politics And hey, you got to admit to even the most diehard of hbk fans had to look at this and see it for what it was Shawn's opinion and reasoning has changed over the years He stated it wasn't breaking his retirement vow and it was like a band getting back together for one night to have fun He also said he could have earned a lot more money doing a singles match at resummonia instead of a tag match in Saudi Arabia while also stating there wouldn't be another chance for all four of these guys involved to get together and have this bout I think that's bullshit by the way because all four men were just back from melbourne australia But anyway, in short, hbk said it wasn't about the money He didn't want to be in a tough position at resummonia where he's expected to wrestle a five star match against a younger guy According to michael's it was just for fun It was an opportunity that michael's thought would never come up and that's why he agreed to do it And here's the thing He makes some points there him coming back to have a solo one-on-one match the expectations It's gonna be kind of high. We obviously expect nothing but the best from Shawn Michaels. Um, but at the same time Yeah, i'm pretty sure vince was trying to throw him big money to have a a solo return for one more match Um, but they were paying him good money to be in a tag match where you don't have to carry as much of the weight Of the match you can kind of coast by because you're in a tag match I mean, it's kind of hard not to be like, all right I had a little bit fun out there in the uh, which you guys at the previous show, you know It let's continue it on and i'm getting paid even more money in a tag match. Why not? I mean, I get it but at the same time him trying to say well, you know Oh, no, you know, I didn't you know, I gotten paid I would have gotten paid more doing solo probably so and this is you know I don't know if this was gonna happen again I mean, there could be some truth to it but at the same time It's a win-win for him. He comes back. He doesn't have to do much and he's getting paid a buttload of money for one match How many of us would come out of retirement for that? in our professions Take from that what you will it's completely your call but you have to admit It's a little hard to believe and trust me. I'm a huge hbk fan I really wanted to see shawn wrestle again, but I was kind of shocked when the match was announced crown jewel 2018 Also, we'd end up surrounded in a lot of controversy and there were calls for the show to get completely cancelled But it went ahead and hbk k and triple h and undertaker all performed in the main event The circumstances the location the timing all that overshadowed the in-ring return of one of wwe's greatest ever superstars And again, gonna be honest the wwe and shawn michael should have known this was gonna happen Also, just a little side note. It's okay to have mixed feelings about this You could be a big hbk fan and still not agree with him coming back at crown jewel It's fine and it's also fine to have a hard stance on the matter But don't feel bad if you're unsure how to feel about it Not everything's black and white particularly in the world of professional wrestling Following week a pre tape promo aired featuring kane and the undertaker the dead man repeated that it wasn't respect They kept michael's retired. It was hbk's fear of the reaper kane said shawn was afraid of humiliation The humiliation of getting defeated again by the undertaker But at crown jewel when degeneration x faced the brothers of destruction for the very first time All of shawn's fears will come true a war will begin and end at crown jewel Triple h can go back to the board room after his defeat and shawn can shuffle back to the safety of retirement DX had three words for the brothers. Are you ready?   That was That was funny. I wish they would have kept that That was so funny to hear that I'm aware the phenom had three different words for hunter and shawn go yourself In the cross shot my team that was great an in-ring dx promo The brothers were seen in a graveyard and taker said the dx reunion will serve as the vessel for the team's total annihilation DX should have stayed away. They can't turn back the clock They can't outrun the reaper and they can't survive the brothers of destruction kane and taker then reveal hbk and triple h's tombstones and they tell shawn and hunter that dx will never rest in peace It was dx though who got the last laugh during the build up triple h interrupted the brothers of destruction promo this time And he lured kane away from the ring allowing hbk to hit taker with sweet chin music taker sat up afterwards And dx got a little shaken up But hbk showed everyone that he still had the ability to put the undertaker down if the right opportunity presented itself All right, let's do it. Let's look at the Example of why some things are best left alone Oh boy Time but shawn michaels did finally say that he regretted performing in this match But he only regretted it because he didn't know the undertaker was trying to end his career with a great bout Hbk apologized the taker kane and triple h when he realized the undertaker was seeking his final match But trust me if you haven't seen this yet shawn michaels ends up being the best performer of the match He has his bad moments too just like everyone else but in comparison to his dance partners He didn't come out of it looking all that bad The bad match is maybe not the most disappointing thing about all this And it's maybe more about the fact that they allowed themselves to have the bad match in the first place But enough of all that you can be the judge here shawn and hunter wearing hybrid dx and nxt gear that i thought looked great The old guard representing the new blood in the stadium looks absolutely brilliant when brothers of destruction make their way down That visual looks crazy stalling at the beginning of the match loads of shit talking It settles down to kane and triple h and hunter starts it off by punching kane in the face He then counters in the corner and he tries to crotch chop or chop his crotch whatever and kane punches right back Triple h stops kane from tagging in the dead man He gets the crowd fired up when he points the hbk shawn gets the tag the crowd pops and michael's comes off the top rope with a double axe handle Once again, it's just seeing hbk with a bald head is just it blew my mind Around that time it was just like what the wow it's still that's just that's always just gonna be like a damn, bro We are getting the old moment Performs a swinging neckbreaker that he seems very proud of but kane sets up and shawn almost gets joked slammed kane then counters a sunset flip He goes for a tombstone, but shawn reverses and he feigns a super kick He laughs at kane and he says he could have had him just then But the brothers aren't in the mood for jokes tonight kane tags in the undertaker and shawn loses his smile I'm gonna take a hit the tag me in kane He has to face the reaper for the first time since mania 26 Triple h tells shawn to go after the dead man The undertaker performs his cutthroat taunt and shawn tells taker to suck it Maples gets in a few chops, but he goes down after a big boot taker then softens up the arm and shoulder for old school But triple h runs in to stop the dead man and this leads the kane jumping in two All four men fighting the ring shawn gets hung up in the tree of woe kane throws triple h into shawn and then Disasterstruck while taking this bump hunter falls out of the ring and he tears his pectoral muscle The same injury that more recently put cody rhodes on the shelf you can see When watching the bow you knew something was up shawn gets dumped out of the ring too so he can check on his teammate The brothers wait in the ring to buy some time and get a damage report and it's not good Each became a slightly relying on triple h in this match But hunter's hurt and shawn the guy who's been retired might have to put in an extra bit of work tonight Damn imagine you out there You this is your first time being really in a wrestling ring in that capacity coming out of retirement And your tag team partner ends up tearing his peck The guy that you were kind of leaning a little bit more on to kind of carry the load of the match Now you're like, uh-oh Ah, this is this is interesting. You know what I'm saying? I get and changes the whole dynamic because it's damn near It's almost impossible to really do what you want to do with a torn peck. We've seen what happened with cody I didn't really know he ended up tearing his peck. I don't I don't remember People talk. Well, I'm sure people talk about I just didn't remember it or whatnot But that definitely does play a part into why the match was what it was damn She's hunter's not completely out. He's gonna do what he can but he can't really use his right arm He tries to chop with his left arm before sending kane and take her out of the ring In the referee checks on hunter while the cameras focus on hbk back inside the ring Sean takes old school while triple h looks like he's an absolute agony at the right steps Hbk gets choked in the corner, but he manages to dodge a big boot hunter gets tagged in and again He uses I will say this you may not be a fan of triple h but Triple h is a tough sob bro. If you guys remember him tearing his I think he tore his quads Uh, I'm thinking of tearing like it's uh one of his quads in the infamous It was another tag team match degeneration x versus a rated rko. He tore his uh He tore his quad in that match and he still finished the match That's just a testament to how tough he is. He's wrestling with a torn muscle And trying to give it his all impressive. This is the left arm to chop the phenom taker puts hunter down with a clothesline He brings the game over to the brothers of destruction's corner where kane gets tagged in and nobody really knows What to do hunter decides he's going to take a slam and he rolls away from an elbow drop afterwards The referee rushes to triple h to see if he's okay He gets up and he trades strikes with kane even using his right arm for a punch And looking like he instantly regrets it afterwards.  He tries to slam kane, but that doesn't go too well Neither does the suplex counter that follows hunter comes back in for a double suplex that dx also struggle with But shan goes upstairs and he turns back the clock with his diving elbow drop Hbk warms up the band for sweet chin music You can hear him shout come on glen when kane takes a bit too long turning around kane counters sweet chin music with a choke slam And then the undertaker comes back in to punish shan in the corner taker performs snake eyes a big boot and a leg drop Hunter stops taker from hitting a choke slam so shan can nail taker with a super kick But still taker sits up before shan and the match goes to the outside Hunter saves shan from getting tombstoneed on the announce table and hunter also performs this rough looking whip into the Yeah, that arm must have been totally out of action Yeah, you could tell just by that whip because he's supposed to use his momentum to kind of like whip him around But he went with him like you can tell The amount of pain he's in is is Scruciating and he's still Out there competing At this point kane makes triple h pay with a choke slam through the announce table And that's going to be hunter put out of action until the end of the match From here shan takes a beating from the brothers of destruction Frequent tags from the brothers lead to shan taking a suplex and a sidewalk slam And in between all this we have the usual punches kicks and choke holds The stadium wasn't allowed to begin with but it's nearly silent at this point And it seems like the excitement of the match just isn't there And the guys in the ring really aren't doing a whole lot to get the audience back into it shan manages to stop a kane top rope attack and the big red machine slowly falls off the top rope He then throws taker into the ring post on the outside and things then get comically bad when shan knocks kane's mask off with a single punch He knocked the mask off and he became the mayor again He was no longer The devil's favorite demon He was the mayor The camera zooms in on michael's while kane gets his mask back And then what should have been a great moment in the match gets ruined by a poor landing when hbk moon salts from the top You can see his appointments and michael's face and taker puts a hand on his chest as if to say Yeah, sorry about that.  Oh my god Sean hugging the corner and they talk about the match You can sense some relief here and you can also sense that triple h has seriously hurt not gonna lie I felt let down after the match as did many others You don't know what to expect really, but this was definitely below expectations. Oh, geez. Whoo. That was rough On the undertaker's last ride documentary, we get to see the atmosphere backstage after the match Sean says the match totally blue and he seems annoyed about the moonsault While triple h gets attended to by the doctor and Shane McMahon Taker said he had some personal problems going on at the time and he wasn't there mentally for the match at all In triple h talked about how he knew the match wasn't one the taker would be happy calling his very last It was going to make taker double down on himself and put him right back in that bad cycle The match didn't give taker closure fans quite simply don't like to think of it as sean's last match either and they Rather completely ignored it was a colossal flop that stung a little more because it featured four legends of a bygone era That fans once adored and i'm sure there were a lot of fans as disappointed as the guys in the ring Michael stayed retired triple h went back to the office Cain wouldn't be seen competing in a WWE ring again until the 2021 Royal Rumble and the undertaker continued to search for his final Match this match with goldberg was up next it was another disaster And if you want you can check out my video on that match right now If you've never watched this brothers of destruction versus dx match yet You're a fan of all four of these guys then don't bother Seriously, don't bother if you're an hbk fan then stick with us in 26 is his last match and you'll be grand Thanks for watching guys and take care Hey, man, if you guys want me to check out uh him talking about Uh, the undertaker versus goldberg match. I definitely will do that for you guys man Shout out to once again wrestling bios Uh, go give him a subscription link to original video be down below Also about that undertaken goldberg match didn't watch that match either So if you want me to check out the whole uh his his whole breakdown of that I definitely will for you guys. But yeah, man this Whoo, that was tough even just watching the pictures of it and stuff. It was just It was tough. I'm glad I didn't see this match I'm glad for whatever reason I was busy at the time and I don't regret it At all this this never visually was in my eyes in this whole entirety I don't even think I watched this actual Event that year. So Hey, I'm okay with that Honestly, they they definitely shouldn't have been out there and that shouldn't have been the event that they have this This match on in my personal opinion. I think a lot of people's opinion. So yeah, uh, it's it's crazy how our our our childhood Heroes that we used to look up to and you know See them get older and try to recapture that that that youthfulness It sometimes it don't work. You know what I'm saying? And it's crazy how the nostalgia train can really Uh fuel up a match that probably shouldn't happen. So comment down below. Let me know Did you guys ever watch this match live? What did you think of it? Well, you did watch it live if you did man, but I appreciate all the love and support on channel wrote to 100k Appreciate y'all kicking me. See y'all next one. Peace


I see a lot of consistency is what I see. I see a lot of communication between the guys. It just watching it makes us feel really excited about what we're capable of doing this year, as opposed to in the past when we've probably been a little bit short in that aspect as far as pitching is concerned. But now it's pretty exciting. Hello, Aaron Boone said earlier in camp that he thought this pitching staff probably had the most depth that they've had in a while. How do you describe the depth of the staff overall? Well, I concur with what Aaron has said about as far as depth is in my 12 years here, probably since 2009, 2010, 11, this is probably the most depth that we've had from starter to closer in a long time. I know it's really weird now. You're talking about us losing Brit, but I still think depth-wise we're still pretty well-situated. I do see a hybrid-type thing. I mean, we have so many options. When I'm talking about that, I'm talking about us adding Justin Wilson and Darren O'Day, two guys who I've been really big fans of from the other side for five or six years now. So I think with that aspect, it's going to give Boone a lot more options. It's going to give us more chances to give guys rest, especially when we're talking about getting high leverage outs at the end of the game. To see, obviously, these guys trust you so much. What have you seen from Luis so far, from Severino? Just the first time that he's starting to throw in his rehab right now? I've seen a lot of first-time bullpins after Tommy John and watching Sevies has probably been the most comfortable I've ever seen a player throwing his bullpins and probably the most aggressive I've seen in a player. I mean, they look like he had zero apprehension or zero worry about whether his surgically repaired elbow was sound. And that, for me, was probably the biggest thing. I mean, he's still probably looking at 20, 30 more bullpins and a lot more live batting practices and then games. So he's still a long way away, but very encouraging first time. And Mike, you've seen Severino since he started basically in this organization. What is it that he's developed? This is a very serious injury, one that happens very frequently, but it's still very serious. What do you think allows him to do that, to be that guy that is able to throw a bullpins that way right after Tommy John? Well, it's all because of hard work. I mean, he's worked his tail off to get to this point. And having been through a series of serious injuries and rehabbing for months and a year, it takes a toll on your mind and definitely takes a toll on your body, but it also gives you a chance that if you dig into it, you can do things now to your body that you weren't able to do when you were healthy because you have that extra time. And I think when he does come back, I think he's going to be much stronger.


I would ask those members leaving the chamber to do so quickly and quietly. I would also ask those members who are in the public gallery to please do so quietly because we are about to go into session. The next item of business is a members' business debate on motion 7887, in the name of Kenneth Gibson, on eating disorder awareness week 2023. This debate will be concluded without any questions being put. I would ask those members who would wish to speak in the debate to please press the request-to-speak buttons. I call on Kenneth Gibson to open the debate up to Sif Minutes, please, Mr Gibson. I am pleased to open this debate on eating disorder awareness week 2023, taking place from 27 February to 5 March. I thank colleagues who supported my motion, allowing this important matter to be discussed in the chamber and those who will contribute today, as well as beat the UK's leading eating disorder charity. I also wish to apologise to the chamber that I am unable to stay beyond the next speaker, having completely forgotten I had a long-standing finance and public administration committee-related engagement. Today I honour the continued campaigning of my former MSP colleague Dennis Robertson, who tragically lost his daughter Caroline to anorexia nervosa in 2011, aged only 18. This co-chairs the Scottish Government's national review of eating disorder services implementation group with Dr Charlotte Oakley, and I'm delighted to say that Charlotte is in the gallery today. This group was established to ensure that those suffering from eating disorder receive equitable, accessible and supportive care. Live the experience is invaluable as members review current service provision in Scotland and implement new strategies to ensure that fast and effective treatment is available to all who suffer from eating disorders. Eating disorders are often endured in secret. They don't discriminate by age, gender or background, and one in four of 100,000 people across Scotland suffering from eating disorder is male, and their symptoms often go unnoticed. It can be easy to assume that changes in eating habits or weight or body shape fixation is because he loves working out, or he's just a picky eater. However, it's important to recognise that eating disorders are complex mental illnesses, and raising awareness about the number of men suffering from eating disorders is the central theme of this year's Awareness Week. Beatt hopes to shine a light on the differing experiences that men face, breaking gendered stereotypes to encourage males to obtain the support that they need to recover. In conjunction with this week's theme, Beatt launched the UK's biggest survey to date on men's experiences with eating disorders. Of those that took part, one in three had never accessed treatment, one in five had never spoken about their struggles and four in five felt that raising awareness would help more men to get treatment sooner. Those results highlight the importance of encouraging men to seek support and, equally, the importance of high-quality treatment so that when people find the courage to take vital steps towards recovery, the right help is available. A supporter of Beatt, Andy, has shared his route to understanding and overcoming his eating disorder. In his conversation with the charity Andy said, My eating disorder does not discriminate, it doesn't care for intellect, qualifications or logic. Despite having a psychology degree counselling qualifications and a robust understanding of mental health, Andy silently suffered from an eating disorder for 25 years. The disorder stayed with him through marriage, career progression and becoming a father. He revealed that, at its peak, it cost him his mental health, confidence, self-esteem, employment and friends. Andy contacted Beatt last year after looking into the support available and said, I was heard, I was understood, I felt accepted and human. The shame left me and the edge was taken off this huge burden. Since reaching out Andy has joined an online support group supervised by Beatt. Understanding that other men face the same burdens has been a key revelation in his recovery process and allowed him to begin rebuilding and enjoying his life. Dan, despite his love of football and boxing, developed anorexia nervosa in his late 20s. He has now shared his experience of overcoming societal stigmas to reach recovery. Due to stereotypes placed on eating disorders, he believes that he was undiagnosed a long time and admitted that thoughts of having an eating disorder never crossed his mind. Whilst ill, Dan said as far as he was concerned, men don't get eating disorders, especially straight men and especially not anorexia. He didn't know anyone else with an eating disorder so he knew of no reference point to believe or accept he needed help. With family persistence, Dan visited his GP where he was listened to without judgment and referred to a specialist outpatient eating disorder service, which he reluctantly accepted. Throughout the years that he spent within the service, Dan regularly met a therapist, dietician and a doctor who provided the highest level of support. Dan learned that he wasn't alone in battling anorexia. Speaking of the experience, he said, that he genuinely celebrated my wins, picked me back up when I fell and even gave me that supportive kick-up the backside when I needed it. Dan is now over four years into recovery and despite admitting that it wasn't an easy process, he has now developed new hobbies and interests without the burden of his eating disorder overshadowing him. Andy and Dan highlight how valuable our recovery services are. Denial and reluctance to seek help are feelings both men shared and no doubt many others do too. Men whose health is being destroyed, like that of a far greater number of women, by an eating disorder. I hope that today's debate and the campaigning that takes place throughout this week and the rest of the year will inspire others to seek assistance. I am heartened by the Scottish Government's commitment to delivering high-quality eating disorder recovery services, as highlighted in its mental health strategy 2017-2027. Its ambition to prevent and treat mental health problems with the same commitment, fashion and drive, as we all do with physical problems, is key to building public confidence in our services, encouraging more people to use the help available. Mental health spending has almost doubled since 2007, with the Scottish ministers investing £290.2 million this year to tackle mental health, deliver psychological therapies, reduce waiting times and improve community-based mental health and wellbeing support for children, young people and adults. That funding will help to ensure that people with an eating disorder receive the treatment and support they need when they need it, regardless of who they are, where they live or what type of eating disorder they have. I encourage anyone in Scotland who is suffering from an eating disorder or someone who knows someone with an eating disorder to reach out for help. Returning to Andy's story, he politely said, that eating disorders do not discriminate but neither do beat, and I know which one I'd rather have in my corner. Whether it's open up to a family member or friend, make an appointment with your GP at a Colin Beats helpline, support is available. Please reach out and grab it if you need it. I advise members that they'll be aware that we are resuming business at 2pm this afternoon, and there are a number of members who wish to speak in this debate. There's a lot of interest, and therefore I would ask members to please limit your contributions to the four minutes that you've been allocated, and that would be really helpful, thank you. I call Emma Harper to be followed by Alexander Stewart. Thank you, Presiding Officer. I welcome this debate. As again, we can raise awareness of eating disorders and congratulate Kenneth Gibson on securing it. He has highlighted really well the issues that surround eating disorders. Around 1.25 million people across the UK, there's about one in 50 people here in Scotland, currently live with an eating disorder, and the numbers have increased during the Covid pandemic. The Covid-19 pandemic has exacerbated this with a reported increase of 86 per cent in referrals to specialists between 2019 and 2020. There is much discussion around what causes a person to have an eating disorder, and eating disorders affect people of any age, gender, ethnicity or background. Research has shown that there is a link between eating disorders and depression, low confidence and low self-esteem. It is important to remember that eating disorders are not all about food itself, but about feelings as well. One of the key asks from Beat is around social media. We know that that can be the cause of eating disorders, and we need to ensure that people are using social media safely. I thank Beat for the work that he has done on that, and I encourage everyone to look at their website, which is totally easy to navigate and very comprehensive. In March 2021, the Scottish Government completed a national eating disorders service review. The national eating disorder service review includes a total of 15 ambitious recommendations focused on ensuring that all those affected by eating disorders receive timely and appropriate care and support. Those recommendations include establishing a lived experience panel, better co-ordination of national activity and data collection, the national availability of self-help resources that should be available to everyone at any stage in life, and a focus on early diagnosis with the aim of prevention. It is welcome that an implementation group was set up to review timescales and the cost of implementation of the recommendations, and that three subgroups have been created within the implementation group. I welcome an update from the minister on the implementation of the recommendations. I contacted the dietetic team from NHS Dumfries and Galloway. The team has a dietitian specifically working with those who are living with or at risk of developing an eating disorder. I heard that, because of the rurality of Dumfries and Galloway, some people who are at risk of developing an eating disorder may not be picked up as early or as easily, and they might be reluctant to access support because of travel involved in attending appointments. While the situation has improved with virtual appointments, there still exists an issue for people who are rural in accessing eating disorder support services, so I would ask the minister to ensure that rural areas are included in the approach moving forward. In addition, I also welcome the Scottish Government's investment of £120 million in the mental health recovery and renewal fund with a focus on improved support for mental health and primary care settings and enhanced community support. I welcome the Scottish Government's increased investment in beat. It has received more than £400,000 from the Scottish Government to support carers, adults and young people coping with eating disorders across Scotland. The funding follows the national review of eating disorder services in Scotland, which generated recommendations for treatment across the country. Those recommendations will be taken forward by the eating disorder implementation group that are responsible for planning and delivering improvements to the eating disorder services. I am conscious of time and I know that there are other speakers as well, so in conclusion I welcome this debate and I thank the minister for the work that has been done so far and I thank Kenneth Gibson again for bringing this debate to chamber. I now call Alexander Stewart to be followed by Paul Sweeney. Thank you, Deputy Presiding Officer. I am grateful for the opportunity of taking part in this debate and congratulating Kenneth Gibson on securing the debate. At this point, Deputy Presiding Officer, I would like to apologise to you, the members and the minister, as I also will not be able to stay for the full debate as I have a pressing engagement to attend to. As we are aware, we already heard that 2023's eating disorder awareness week goes from 27 February to 5 March. Eating disorders in males on which this event in years is focusing are very much underreported. As the motion quite rightly highlights, there are approximately 1.25 million people living with an eating disorder in the United Kingdom. Around 25 per cent of them are male, and that equates to about 300,000 individuals. Indeed, the United Kingdom's national care for eating disorders confirms that it is very hard to know just how many men are suffering at any one time. It is also hard to take on board the population when it is related to males. There are many reasons for that. Perhaps over the years, we have seen overly sensitive types when it comes to media and it talks about weight loss and individuals. Indeed, there are many who are likely to talk about the complexities of age, and when it comes to dealing with the complexities and anxieties about shape, size and weight, they all come into the equation. Women are often talked about food and dieting much more when it comes to weight loss than men do, whereas many men with eating problems often hide them and the difficulties they have because they go on exercise or over exercise in visiting the gym. Men are also more likely to avoid seeking help in cases because they do not feel that they get peer pressure when it comes to that. It is also widely known that, historically and across many cultures, men have been celebrated for their active and conquer while women were valued for their appearance. That has many changes across culture and that has now no longer become the case, but there is still the complex when it comes to media involvement and the shift that it goes to ensure that all ages and all genders are taken. Taking health orientation and benchmarking as well, increasingly there is much more involvement. As I have said, gym membership has greatly increased for men and even cosmetic surgery has become something that is more apparent in the males today. In addition, dieting and ensuring that that takes place. There are changes that are taking place and we all acknowledge that. I have spoken in the past on eating disorders in the chamber when we talked about the beat campaign and the shock and socket to eating disorders. I also spoke last year when Emma Harper MSP had a similar debate in the chamber, having an awareness of what is taking place and how that is managed. We have to understand and acknowledge around diseases such as anorexia, bulimia, binge eating and other disorders. In recent years, the support of MSPs has helped to increase the public profile of many of those eating disorders. However, there is still much work to do to ensure that we encapsulate what is going on. I pay tribute to many organisations such as the Scottish Eating Disorder Interest Groups, Diabetes Scotland, Beat and our NHS. They all provide vital support who ask and ensure that vulnerable individuals are supported and looked after. We must encourage and empower people to take action no matter how long their symptoms have been and what they have dealt with.  To this end, I encourage to ensure that whatever a campaign is, or even when a campaign is not taking place, that we get that message out for recognition, to ensure that, as many people as possible, as often as possible and wherever it is possible, we get that message. Thank you, Mr Stewart. I now call Paul Sweeney to be followed by Peter Switcher. Thank you, Deputy Presiding Officer. May I start by thanking the member for Cunningham North for bringing this important issue for debate in the chamber this afternoon. There is often a tendency to focus on anorexia or bulimia in discussions around eating disorders, but it is important to stress that there is a broad spectrum of those illnesses, which can impact on anyone of any background. That is why I welcome this year's Eating Disorder Awareness Week focus on eating disorders in men. Issues around eating disorders are often discussed in relation to women, but the reality is that approximately one in four people with eating disorders are men and, increasingly, young men. A recent UK survey undertaken by the excellent charity Beat on Men with Eating Disorders found that half didn't realise that someone at them could develop a disorder of this kind, but 76 per cent of respondents indicated that access to specialist services must be improved. That has only been exacerbated by the tendency for social media to be curated in such a way where men and boys are increasingly feeling pressure or peer pressure on their body image. That is something that the minister perhaps could respond to specifically in his reply, particularly around how we encourage positive role models in the use of social media in a positive way to reinforce messages that will provide greater reassurance to young men about how they can manage their diet and their body. That is something that we should be trying to pursue as a public health policy. The Scottish Government published their national eating disorder service review in 2021, with recommendations that could go some way in improving access to those services in Scotland. Regrettably, I understand that full implementation of those recommendations remains to be delivered, despite an increasing demand for specialist help. Indeed, the number of people in Scotland with eating disorders reaching a stage of their diagnosis where they required admission for inpatient treatment rose to 233 in 2020, compared to 125 in 2019. That is a stark increase, but it is likely that the reality of eating disorders in Scotland is sadly even more bleak than the picture painted by that statistic on hospital admissions alone, because the data that we collect on the prevalence of eating disorders in Scotland is poor. Only data on people with eating disorders who have been admitted as inpatients to hospitals is collected centrally. Another symptom of our hospital-centric national health system is that we need to push more of that activity out into communities and focus much more on prevention. If we had central data on every person in Scotland who has received an eating disorder diagnosis, we could have an even clearer understanding of how many people are impacted by disordered eating, which could inform the structure and capacity and design of NHS services so that they can be scaled and adjusted accordingly. Deputy Presiding Officer, eating disorders are deadly illnesses. Indeed, eating disorders that anorexia claim the most lives of any mental illness, and we must ensure that the health service is adequately resourced to treat them as such. At present, it is estimated that people can wait as long as three and a half years to start treatment after their illness begins. That delay is potentially fatal for many, as recovery is much more likely for patients who receive medical intervention early to adapt behaviour before it becomes too ingrained. The pandemic has, of course, had an undeniable impact on the efficiency of our national health service, but, as is often said, politics is about choices. I would urge the Government to reconsider their freeze on mental health service funding so that eating disorder services can meet the growing demand for specialist support. This is now the third year running that we have rightly debated eating disorder awareness week in this Parliament, but we must ensure that we do not just talk about why people with eating disorders deserve better, we must also deliver on clear, measurable solutions to this major public health concern. I too want to thank Kenneth Gibson for bringing this important debate to the chamber today. As the motion highlights, and as other members have highlighted, approximately one and a quarter million people in the UK suffer from some form of eating disorder, but despite the widespread nature of the issue, there is still a lack of understanding amongst the public as to how prevalent those illnesses are, how to spot signs that someone is suffering or how to help. Even less understood is the prevalence of eating disorders in males, and it comes as a surprise to many that males account for one and four of all those suffering from an eating disorder.  I'd spent five years being incredibly unwell because I was a man no one even considered it. Across Scotland, the impact of eating disorders is only growing and the problem has been exacerbated by the mental and emotional impact of the pandemic. This is borne out by the alarming increase in the number of children admitted to Scottish hospitals suffering with the condition. It increased by a staggering 86 per cent between 2019 and 2021. It is clear that eating disorders are on the rise and the impact on children and young people in particular must be recognised and addressed. A key part of tackling the rise of eating disorders and supporting those who suffer from them is to ensure that we are not doing anything to inadvertently make things more difficult for those already affected. The Scottish Liberal Democrats have concerns about the impact of the Scottish Government's plans to make calorie labelling on menus, mandatory and food outlets, such as businesses, takeaways, restaurants and hospitals, as part of Scotland's obesity strategy. A survey by Beat, the UK's eating disorder charity, has found that 95 per cent of people affected by eating disorders feel calories on menus will negatively impact them. Many expressed concerns that calorie labelling would increase feelings of fear and guilt for those currently unwell, encourage behaviours such as restrictive eating and make recovery more difficult. Over half of survey respondents have said that they would... I thank the member for giving way. With regard to calories on menus, my understanding is that some of the restaurants are making non-caloried menus available for people. If they are booking a table, for instance, that is something that might help counter the issue of calories on menus. I thank the member for that helpful information. Over half of respondents said that they would go out to eat less frequently if such legislation was introduced in Scotland. Elsie, who suffers from an eating disorder, said, "...it took me years to unlearn calorie counting and to find joy in food again, to have it displayed so openly, to potentially hear friends discuss it right in front of me, would be very triggering and harmful." And consultant psychiatrist at eating disorders, Dr Stephen Anderson, has said, "...and I quote, there's no good evidence that this kind of calorie labelling is effective in reducing obesity. Liberal Democrats are therefore calling on the Government to scrap these plans. Good work is being done to support those struggling with eating disorders, and just yesterday I read about a young woman, Molly Smith, who started her own podcast Exploring Disorder Eating in the hope that it can break down stigma and misconceptions. Molly says that it's something she wishes she'd access to when she was younger. Work like hers is vital in helping those who are struggling and helping others to realise when they need help. Finally, I'd like to take this opportunity to acknowledge the excellent work of Beat in raising awareness and providing much-needed advice and support both to those suffering from an eating disorder and those close to them, and I'd also like to echo the calls for the Scottish Government to work closely with NHS boards around the country to ensure that no one is left without the help and support that they need." I want to thank Kenny Gibson for bringing forward this important annual debate to the chamber. Eating disorders are serious mental health issues, affecting an estimated 1.25 million people in the UK. Eating disorders affect anyone—of any age, gender, ethnicity or background. They have severe impacts on individuals and their families. Types of eating disorders include binge eating disorder, bulimia, anorexia, other specified feeding or eating disorder and avoidant restrictive food intake disorder. Eating disorders have high mortality rates, with anorexia having the highest mortality rate, and one in six people with binge eating disorder attempting to end their life. The theme of this year's Eating Disorder Awareness Week is eating disorders in men. Unfortunately, there hasn't been a lot of research on eating disorders in men, but an estimate based on the existing research suggests that around one in four of those with an eating disorder are men. Men face increased stigma when it comes to eating disorders, and the current research isn't representative enough, focusing mainly on white cisgender men, so the true number may be much higher. Stigma is undoubtedly a factor in the low representation of men in these studies. For many, the perception of eating disorders being something that only affects women and girls will undoubtedly stop people from recognising their symptoms in the first instance. Many of the signs and symptoms that we have spoken about in recent years or those that are reported do not align with the symptoms that many men may suffer. Not knowing your symptoms are a problem, let alone that there may be an eating disorder will stop people from seeking help. For those who know they may have an issue, they may not seek help for fear of perceptions of their problems and associated stigma. Beats website has this quote from a man sharing his experience. I feel like eating disorders are often spoken about in relation to women. I didn't expect that this would happen to me. When I initially developed an eating disorder, I didn't know I had one. I didn't exactly fit the common stereotype, and even if I did, I was in complete denial. As Emma Harper and others have said, social media is one of Beats' areas of focus. Social media has a huge part to play in that. As someone who loves a good TikTok scroll before bed, the sheer number of videos that are often sponsored videos or adverts that promote different diets, weight loss and fitness regimes is enormous. That is not to say that those videos in of themselves are harmful, but the number of them and the often conflicting information is what strikes me. I thank the member for giving way on that point. I think that she makes a really important point of the pervasive of social media, particularly among young people and particularly boys. Would she agree that perhaps a measure that the Government could consider is accrediting certain social media content creators that are reassuring and providing good quality advice to young people so that they can have assurance that the information that they are getting is good quality and evidenced? I think that that is certainly something that could be looked at, but another thing that I would like to see us do, and this is a societal problem, and I think that that has been recognised across the chamber, is to actually look at all the different places that we can provide nutritional information to young people. It is certainly a part of, potentially, PSE education that we could look at so that those habits are developed early in life and cannot be influenced by the misinformation that we are seeing on social media. However, there is no easy solution to that. I remember growing up in the late 90s and early 2000s when diet culture was at its height. To a certain extent, even though those attitudes move on and there is now more mainstream focus on being body positive, we have not got rid of that toxic piece of diet culture. In a way, it rolls around every new year, and I have done it myself for the goal is to lose weight rather than eat better and look after yourself. I cannot imagine how triggering some of that is for people with an eating disorder. I realise that I am rapidly running out of time, Presiding Officer, but I once again like to thank Kenny Gibson for bringing this important debate forward and thank Beatt for their continuing work. Thank you, Ms Mackay. I now call Emma Roddick, who is followed by Maurice Golden. Thank you, Presiding Officer. I too congratulate my colleague Kenny Gibson on his motion in securing time today for us to debate eating disorders. I think that the discussion around how eating disorders can affect men and boys has already been really valuable this afternoon. I was thinking when listening to Beatrice Wishart speak that 25 per cent of £1.2 million is significant enough, but if there are men and boys who are just not being diagnosed or not considering that that might be what they have, then, as Gillian Mackay said, that number could be even higher. The expectations placed on women and girls, which I have experience of, will also have a negative impact on men and boys who then think that body image is a female issue. I am grateful to Beatrice Wishart as well for providing a briefing ahead of this debate. I am also aware that Beatrice Wishart recently supported a steering group in Shetland in my region of the Highlands and Islands, aiming to support sufferers in the aisles following the recommendations from the Scottish Government's national review of eating disorder services. Eating disorders can affect you at any age, if you are any gender, and wherever you live. However, Beatrice's research into men and eating disorders showed that half of respondents to their survey did not think that someone like them could develop an eating disorder. It is quite hard, and I know that I tried in preparation for this debate, to find support groups and specific information for people living in many of the communities, especially the island communities, that I represent. I hope that the minister will be able to provide an update to the timescale for implementing the recommendations, and particularly the creation of the national network. As with so many things, that all comes back to understanding and acceptance. I know so many stories from friends and constituents about the incident that they call to mind when they talk about when their disorder developed or resurfaced. They talk about a family member calling them fat or praising them for being skinny, sometimes when they were really, really young burns. They talk about being bullied at school or even as an adult and dismissed or mocked for their size, not understood, not accepted, just othered. We know that malicious actors online can target people with mental health issues, with posts and adverts aimed at creating eating disorders or making them worse. While much of that is not in the gift of the Scottish Government, I personally question whether it is ever appropriate for people to be able to pay to target folk based on protected characteristics with online advertising. I am aware that gambling adverts, adverts that take advantage of impulsive spending and adverts that aim to trigger suicidal, harmful eating or other feelings related to mental health issues, can pay to target people that algorithms have identified as possibly having a mental health issue. However, it is not just anonymous accounts online that can cause people this distress and harm. I think that we could maybe all do with being more aware of how commenting on someone's weight, even if you mean it in a nice way, can trigger dangerous feelings and habits. There is no need to tell people that you think they are too fat or that they look a lot better now that they have lost weight. They might not have lost it in a healthy way. They might be really struggling with the weight loss. They might have lost it because of an illness or stress or bereavement or something else that they could do without a reminder of. The fact that many people developed or had eating disorders become more of a problem for them again over lockdown demonstrates the link between eating disorders and anxiety, trauma and comorbidities with other mental health issues. Those are all situations that any of us could find ourselves in. You never know when that might be, so being considerate of how our words and actions might affect people with eating disorders benefits everyone. In the meantime, I will finish by saying that if anyone has been listening to this debate and found it difficult, I encourage them to contact Beat. They can be contacted on a live web chat, their phone number is<PHONE_NUMBER>2, or they also have an email address. I thank Kenneth Gibson for securing this important debate on eating disorders awareness week. I want to take the opportunity to thank Beat, who has representatives in the gallery today for their exceptional work to raise awareness around eating disorders as well as offering vital services to those who are suffering. I would also like to take this opportunity to thank those who take the courageous steps to speak about their experiences, raising awareness and informing decision makers across the chamber of this cruel, devastating and complex mental illness so that we can work together on improving services and lives for those who are suffering. When it comes to supporting those with eating disorders, I believe that we are largely across the chamber on the same page. Today, given the time, I would like to focus my remarks around calorie labelling on menus, given the Scottish Government's ambition to incorporate calorie content into menus in restaurants, cafes and takeaways across Scotland. Having formerly worked with the Healthy Living Award, the benefits of a balanced diet cannot be overestimated. From our fruit and vegetable intake to high-fibre foods and protein, nutritional value is paramount. Take the humble avocado. 60 per cent of its fat is monosaturated fats, which research suggests help to protect against heart disease and lower blood pressure. They provide an excellent source of potassium, folate and fibre, all of which benefit the heart and cardiovascular system. Yet, calories on menus ignore all this vital nutritional information and instead focus on one metric, calories. As the minister is aware, there is very little evidence that calories on menus manage obesity long-term. In this area, there is much we agree on. I welcome the views from the SNP benches in Westminster this week. Carol Monaghan, the SNP MP for Glasgow North West, stated, and I quote, We also need the removal of calories from menus. Their inclusion was aimed at tackling obesity, but unfortunately the message is hitting the wrong people. A view echoed by our colleague Patricia Gibson, SNP MP for North Ayrshire and Arran.  I am aware, Beatt has met Minister Marie Todd to hand over an open letter with 3,500 signatures in December. I would like the clarity from the minister in his response, explaining why the Scottish Government is so resistant to taking an evidence-based approach to this policy. It feels like they are sidelining the views of those with lived experience of an eating disorder. The minister knows that, for individuals suffering or recovering from eating disorders, this policy could cause immense harm. A 2017 study found that, when calorie labelling was on menus, participants with anorexia nervosa ordered significantly fewer calories and participants with bulimia nervosa ordered significantly more calories for hypothetical meal choices. We also know that calorie labelling on menus is very likely to be ineffective in improving public health. I would urge the Scottish Government to put a halt to this policy or at very least pause the legislation until further research is released. For all those suffering with eating disorders, I urge the minister to listen to the 3,500 signatures and to put a stop to calories on menus. I thank Kenny Gibson for bringing this important debate to the chamber. I will try not to repeat some of the points in the interests of time, but, as my colleague Paul Sweeney has stated, Scottish Labour supports the aims and objectives of eating disorder awareness week 2023, with this year's particular focus on eating disorders in men. To better understand those complex mental illnesses and put gender stereotypes to bed, it is right that we applaud Beat for launching UK's biggest survey to date on men's experience with eating disorder. I acknowledge the work undertaken in raising awareness and bringing people with lived experience together and in advancing the care of people with eating disorders. We have heard the statistics and they are quite stark. I will not go over them again, but we do know that, tragically, men—we know that one in four people with experience with eating disorders are men, and one in five of those men, report never to have discussed or spoken about those struggles. It is shocking, but it acts as a reminder to us all that eating disorders are both prominent and serious and often still have a taboo around them, where men in particular feel they cannot speak out. As Beat has indicated, it is essential that we as MSPs take seriously our role in raising awareness, in fighting for funding for research and for scrutinising the Government in delivering the full implementation of the 2021 national review of eating disorder services, the 15 ambitious recommendations such as other members. I would be interested to hear the response from the minister on that. I hope that the minister might answer some of those points in his closing remarks, particularly around the conclusions that the group had in September 2022 recommending a national eating disorder network, and when you will oversee the implementation of that. Furthermore, the 2021 national review of eating disorder services highlighted a lack of training and education for healthcare workers on eating disorders in Scotland. I want to just particularly raise that. I spent many years working in the NHS as a dietician as part of the allied health professions team, so I know only too well the importance of raising awareness of the condition and disorders and of training future healthcare professionals. Just to close, it is clear that the speeches from across the chamber that MSPs take that issue very seriously. Research work and contributions made by charities, experts and others are so important, but there is definitely more to do with cross-party support, which we seem to have in the chamber today. We can work together and we can start to address the real concerns of individuals, charities and others across the country. I look forward to the remarks from the minister on that. I now call on Minister Kevin Stewart to respond to the debate up to seven minutes. Thank you, Presiding Officer, and I welcome this annual debate to Mark Eating Disorder Awareness Week 2023. We have been having this debate for many more years than three years now, Mr Sweeney, and I pay tribute to Dennis Robertson, who really kicked off this annual debate. That allows us to raise awareness about eating disorders and the terrible impact that they can have on those who are diagnosed and their family and friends, too. I thank Kenny Gibson for lodging the motion this year. Emma Harper lodged the motion a couple of years in a row before that. On this day, the debate really does focus our minds on how significant the subject is. We know that the last few years have been incredibly difficult for everyone, including those with disordered eating and those who are diagnosed with eating disorder. I want to assure all members across the chamber this afternoon that this Government continues to work closely with NHS boards, local authorities and third sector organisations such as BEAT to ensure that those who require support for eating disorder have access to the right care and treatment. I want to extend my thanks and appreciation to all those across the country who work day in and day out to support the recovery of those with eating disorder and their families. As we have heard today, the theme of this year's awareness week is eating disorders in men. BEAT, as we have heard, believed that around one in four people who develop eating disorder are men. Through the recent survey, it is clear that more needs to be done in this regard. Mr Gibson mentioned Andy and Dan. The reality is that we probably all know Andy or Dan, but do not know that they are suffering from eating disorder. We need to make sure that we get that awareness right as we move forward. We need to change attitudes, and we need to reduce stigma further so that no one is afraid to come forward for help. Over the past three years, we have taken significant actions to ensure that those who require support for eating disorder can receive timely access to appropriate treatment. That has included providing further funding to NHS services to the third sector and working with those at the heart of our services to deliver the recommendations from the national review of eating disorder services. Since publication of the national review in 2021, we have made positive progress in delivering the review's short-term recommendations and the planning to deliver the remaining recommendations. In 2021, in response to the national review, I established an implementation group to support us to deliver the recommendations. This group of dedicated individuals has worked hard to identify priority areas where we should focus our resources. That included developing quality standards for eating disorders in Scotland and mapping out delivery of longer-term improvements to services through the national eating disorder network. The group will be publishing its final report in the coming weeks, which will provide an update on the progress that we have made so far in delivering the national review's 15 recommendations. The report will also outline our next steps and the actions that we are taking this year. Over the next year, there will be key progress made to support improvements to eating disorder services. The eating disorders quality standards will be consulted on this spring with the intention to publish by the end of 2023. Recruitment for a national eating disorder-lived experience panel has already started with panel meetings commencing in mid-April. To improve data around eating disorders, we will be undertaking an NHS benchmarking deep dive on the eating disorder services in Scotland, which will provide us with an up-to-date baseline position on services across NHS boards to inform future policy development and resources. Finally, as I mentioned, an absolute priority over the next six months is the establishment of a national eating disorders network, which will support the delivery of the work that I have outlined and the remaining recommendations from the national review. In addition, we will continue to provide funding to NHS boards to ensure that those who are accessing specialist support for an eating disorder can access the support that they require. This year, we allocated £46 million via the mental health outcomes framework to continue delivering improvements in cams, psychological therapies, eating disorders and neurodevelopmental services for children and young people. Let me turn to some of the most important issues that members have brought up today in this debate. First, let me turn to Calary Kingting, which was mentioned by Beatrice Wishart, Maurice Golden and Emma Harper. The Scottish Government takes eating disorders extremely seriously. We will take fully into account the views that we have. We have been engaging with Beat and others, and we will continue to do so, and with a wider range of key stakeholders on this work, to get this absolutely right. I want to ensure that we do our best here, and we will soon publish an independent analysis of responses of the consultation that there was on the issue. We need to take that evidence-based approach that Mr Golden mentioned. If I can turn to social media, which was a feature in most of the speakers today's comments, Ms Mackay, Mr Sweeney and Ms Harper, I think that there is a great opportunity in the United Kingdom Government's online safety bill, but unfortunately they keep calling backwards in all of that. That, quite frankly, is not good enough. We, as a Government, have been investing, particularly in young people's organisations, to highlight the difficulties that there are with using social media and talking about avoidance of things. However, what we actually need to do is to see the UK Government move further on this online safety bill, not just in terms of eating disorders, but also in terms of suicide prevention and also in self-harm prevention, too. I hope that I will take Mr Sweeney if I am allowed to, Presiding Officer. Briefly, Mr Sweeney. When I was young, I remember the Hebs adverts, which were quite iconic in Scotland in the 90s and 2000s. They were very effective at publishing public health messages. Sadly, they have fallen away in recent years. Would the minister consider using targeted social media advertising by the Government to reinforce positive messages? We have been doing that, but not necessarily by the Government. We have provided resources to the Scottish Youth Parliament, the Scottish Children's Parliament, for the Mind Your Time web, for example. It goes in depth in social media and highlights to young folk and gives advice around about screen time sleep and the impacts of those on body image and mental wellbeing. I think that young people speaking to young people is probably better than government speaking to young people, but I am willing to consider all of that as we move forward. Emma Harper made a very important point about rural services, and Beatrice Wishart and Emma Roddick mentioned rural and island communities. We have commissioned directors of eHealth to work with others, including Public Health Scotland, to improve data from all over, but we are also looking at how we deliver better in our rural and island communities. We have got to make sure that the services that we provide are for all of Scotland. I know that I have gone over time, so I will finish by closing again on thanking Kenneth Gibson for lodging the motion today. I also want to reiterate my support and thanks to the staff across Scotland who have been working tirelessly to care for those with an eating disorder. I would like to pay tribute to Dennis Robertson for the work that he has done in this area and for Charlotte Oakley's work in jointly chairing with Dennis. Of course, we still all have work to do to deliver on recommendations from the national review. However, I want to assure all of those in the chamber that ensuring that improving support for those with an eating disorder is a top priority for myself and for this Government.


When it comes to nature, Taiwan has this idea of the civil IoT system. In many different schools, including primary schools all around Taiwan, a lot of students learn data stewardship, data governance through a simple device called the air box. The air box being less than 100 euros each, easily measures PM 2.5 and other air indicators, and they upload to a distributed ledger so that everybody can rest assured that nobody can go back in time and change each other's numbers. And through this ledger technology, the legitimacy of the social sector grows as the station grows to more than 2,000 stations. At that time, the environmental minister only has less than 100 stations, and so people tend to believe each other's numbers rather than the ministerial numbers. However, in Taiwan, because we have the most open civic space in the whole of Asia, according to Civicus Monitsa, we really can't beat the citizen scientists, we must join them. So they engaged in a collective bargaining of data governance, allowing the government to join their already very legitimate distributed system in exchange of the government installing their specced air boxes in the industrial areas, because these are private property they couldn't get access into. But it turns out that the municipal government owned the lamps, and so we can install their air boxes in the industrial places to make sure that everybody is accountable when it comes to natural air quality. The same team has now also placed in the top 10 of last year's presidential hackathon through the idea of a water box that incentivizes everybody, not only farmers, but also industrial plants that share the same waterway as farmers to place those water boxes that again connect through MBIOC to form the complete natural picture so that we can deliberate based on shared facts, reliable data, encouraging effective partnership that is supported but not controlled by the government. And this is the spirit of data collaboratives.