My name is Barry Kalfour and I'm very pleased to welcome you to this IIA webinar on Pandemonium Europe's COVID response. And this is my first webinar as the incoming director of research at the IIA. I'm thrilled to be taking up this role and I'm looking forward to interacting with many of you over the months and years ahead. We're delighted to be joined today by Luc Van Midler, a professor at Leiden University, who will speak to us today on the subject of COVID-19 pandemic and what it means for Europe. Professor Van Midler or Luc, as he's told us to call him, will speak to us for about 20 minutes, maybe a little more, and then we'll go to questions and answers with the audience. I'll introduce Luc and his topic in a moment. You'll be able to join the discussion during the meeting using the Q&A function on Zoom and I encourage you all to do so. Please feel free to send questions in throughout the session as they occur to you and we'll come to as many of them as possible. When asking a question, please remember to state your name and your affiliation if you have one and if you feel that it's relevant. A reminder today as well that today's presentation and questions and answers are both on the record. Please also feel free to join the discussion on Twitter using the handle at IIA. I'll now formally introduce Luc, Professor Van Midler, and hand over to him then. So Luc Van Midler is the Professor of Foundations and Practice of the European Union and its institutions at Leiden University, and one of the world's foremost experts on European politics. He's a member of the Dutch Advisory Council on International Affairs and Chair of its Commission on European Integration, as well as an unpaid Special Advisor to European Commission Vice President, Franz Timmermans. He writes a column, and indeed he writes prolifically, and a column on European International Affairs with the Dutch newspaper NRC Handersblad. And as the author of several books, including Politicide, 1999, The Passage to Europe in 2009, Alarms and Excursions Improvising Politics in the European Stage in 2019, and indeed his latest work which you'll see over Luc's right shoulder. Pandemonium Saving Europe with Agenda Publishing 2021, which Luc will refer to today. Professor Van Midler, Luc, thank you again very much for being with us and the floor is yours. Well, thank you, Barry, for this kind introduction and to the IIA for this really nice invitation to speak, even if it's over Zoom, it's a pleasure to be with you. I was in your offices, I think, three years ago for another event, which was also book related at the time. But I know very well that around your institute it is a really vibrant community of people interested in and engaged and experienced in European and international affairs so very pleased to be able to address this audience. And indeed the new book, Pandemonium Saving Europe, is a kind of sequel to some extent to the book I discussed with some of you three years ago, Alarms and Excursions. That one was on Europe's decade of crisis from the Eurozone to migration and Brexit and Trump and Russia as well, I'm afraid, ready back then. And this book in a way takes up the story of Europe's response to COVID. So it's only one crisis, it's a shorter book therefore it's, and it also offers a kind of synthesis of some of my previous ideas, including from from the passage to Europe. And maybe I do take the opportunity here to thank my translator, Liz Wotze, I've originally written the book in Dutch, but like my previous work, it has been beautifully translated by by her we work hand in hand. Normally I don't always mention this but I know in Ireland you are if I may say so a nation of keen readers of books. So, and I know you attach importance to style and pace, which is something dear to my heart as well that say as an altar, which is what I feel at heart. So what I want to do in indeed in the next 20 minutes or so as, as Barry suggested, is to address three points first, give you a kind of overall take of the books claims, and what it does. Then I want to take up as points two and three to more focused points one related to public opinion, and the role public opinion played in this specific crisis. And as a final point, the geopolitical dimension of this crisis, and that will also allow me to say a few words on situation of Ireland to the extent I dare venturing there but but but but I think it would be nice to to close there and to open also the discussion with all of you to which I'm very much looking, looking forward. So first therefore on what does the book bring and why indeed a book on on this crisis. And a fascination fascination with these moments of of turmoil is is not by by some kind of of pessimism or voyeurism or whatever, but it is my conviction that as a political analyst, you can really learn a lot of a political body. These are moments of truth, after all, just like in in private life, you may sometimes get to know your, your friends better at a moment of trouble, the same is true in a way in public life. And you also get to know forces weaknesses and strengths of of political bodies during crisis. In a way, the starting point for me for for writing pandemonium was the very sharp incredible contrast between the outbreak of the covert pandemic, February let's say 2020 very bleak moment for all our nations but also for the European Union as a whole contrast between that moment, bitter moment, and the relatively robust response, pretty soon as of the summer of 2020. Now, I'm, I have no doubt you will have very, very sharp memories of these early stages of the crisis locally. So in a way experience it here from Brussels, where I'm sticking very locally. I mean there's a window there on one end of the street. There's a hospital on the other end of the street. There's a church where a lot of bells were told in those days and a lot of ambulances coming by as well so so it was a very local experience but very soon I was also drawn into this common European experience and to just briefly remind you of that bleak moment of February 2020 this this this were the moment when we got footage from rumors from hellish scenes in hospitals in northern Italy and Lombardy, where, according to rumors people were dying in the corridors, the moment when they asked for help to its European neighbors to Brussels and where no help came comparable stories from from Spain and other member states. Borders were closing which for some people in the US is very traumatic and pretty soon and almost without surprise. There were stories of imminent economic disaster mass layoffs, maybe the euro would come on the pressure, etc. So, as of late March 2020 people already started predicting the end of the EU or of the eurozone, as in previous cases, most notably the eurozone crisis to some extent migration crisis as well there was a, again a chorus of profits of doom, predicting the end of the EU. A very bleak moment bitter approaches among member states as well because there was this lack of solidarity, public opinion very disappointed, and therefore, it is rather remarkable. So, quickly, the situation turned around, you could see and feel things moving from from Easter 2020 April, May and by summer 2020 to very big almost revolutionary decisions of a joint response had been taken by EU leaders in close cooperation with the Commission. The first one was related to public health, and it was a decision to jointly procure the vaccine. This was June 2020. This was very unexpected. Because at the start of the crisis, the story in and around Brussels was that the EU had no competence in the field of public health so this was a very horrible suffering and a human tragedy for many many people but unfortunately this was more or less the official line of the EU could not act in the field of public health. And here we were for five months later the EU itself the Commission of President von der Leyen was going to procure the vaccine for 450 million EU citizens in a way it was going to provide the light at the end of the tunnel so that that was a remarkable turnaround. And formidable decision obviously was taken in the summer of in July 2020 decision in principle at the time to establish a Corona recovery fund, what took some 36 months to work that out that allowed in legislative detail and but meanwhile as we are now again half after these funds have been started to to be dispersed to member states, and it was in that decision that Germany in particular, the Federal Republic crossed two big red lines in the German Monetary Debate, because Chancellor Merkel accepted to the idea that the Commission would raise money on the markets. So it kind of Euro bonds, which were completely taboo during the Eurozone crisis and about which she Merkel had said that something like that would not happen in her lifetime. Probably she meant in her political lifetime, but nevertheless, it was crossing a red line. And also second red line these the money as you know will be distributed almost without conditions so it was these were grants and loans, and that really sounded a little bit like the transfer union the Germans never wanted. So that was my starting point, very bleak outset and remarkable response resilience dynamism, how can we, how can we explain that. How can we explain such a thing. Yes, there's two types of, of answer I will offer here. And one, and that's still let's say part of the general take of the book is to say well, this crisis is is one in a series. It's not the first very difficult period, the European Union is going through, and you collectively learned from previous crises. Well, I don't want to get too detailed here but but but for those of you are familiar with with the with the Eurozone and economic financial operations. They will remember that that the response of this crisis could also draw on the institutions that have been built a decade ago. When I worked for European Council President Herman van Rompuy in the years 2010 2014. These were the, the old two hectic and dramatic years of the Eurozone crisis I remember in the early days. Van Rompuy, a former Belgian budget minister and prime minister was often complaining that in Europe for the euro there was an empty toolkit. And he as a politician he won some some tools whatever a hammer and there was nothing in the toolkit and 10 years on. There was an is a European stability mechanism, which has been used even if there was some political drawbacks to that as well in the central bank, which needed two years almost in your crisis before it finally acted decisively just took a few weeks here to to step in and to take this crisis and so do I will do examples. So, in a way and in this crisis that that is one of my thesis.   Now I could very quickly break that down in a few differences to for those of you are perhaps less familiar with with this overall view. I mean one key difference obviously is the element of time and of speed. So we're talking about making rules for the internal market. It's a matter of negotiations, slow, careful patient negotiations between member states, institutions, stakeholders, etc, where it can take years between the start of a legislative proposal and and the day it will finally end in the Union's official journal up to seven years. When we talk about crisis politics. It can be in some instances were just a matter of two three days for you to come up with response going back to the euro crisis again. On the weekend in May 2010 when you had 72 hours to find 750 billion euros somehow in a series of frantic phone calls and emergency summit on the Friday evening. A legislative proposal done by the Commission on the Sunday for the first time in history of the Commission before the markets were opening on in Asia on Monday morning. And that during the migration crisis as well. So completely different time that different experience and perception of the public as well. Whereas internal market is can be pretty boring stuff very important obviously a lot of financial projects for those who are in it. The companies or NGOs, etc. But rather far away for for citizens, whereas in in the crisis big crisis there. And sometimes about a lot of money, tax pay is money about austerity measures. Sovereignty and identity, think about migration membership of the you, Brexit. And then there's a huge news day after day and and and I know in Ireland as well, Brexit of course resonates, particularly perhaps more as it's all that was far away than than the migration crisis and so has has zero zone crisis over a decade ago. Now as a result of both the dimension of speed and public expectations. I think you can also see a change of cost. That is to say that alongside the traditional Brussels casting of commissioners and ministers in their various councils and MEPs in crisis politics, you also see heads of state of government entering the stage. Chairman, Chancellor, French President, our T shock, the Prime Minister, etc. They collectively take a lot of these important decisions and some of the interaction you also saw during the pandemic interaction between European Council leaders and commission from the line in particular. So that is one answer. Coming back to that, why the union was able to react relatively quickly to the pandemic because of learning experiences in between and because the union is no longer the same as it was back in 2005 or 2007 at the very first economic and financial crisis. Now there's a second factor and this brings me to the. Also to the second point of what I, what I promise to you, that is the role of public opinion. I'll try to be relatively brief about that so we have a bit more time for the for the geopolitical dimension but but I do think, and I bury if you want I can expand more during the Q&A but I do think there was a really unique feature of the pandemic and of the COVID crisis. And that is that it was a public call for action, which stirred the political response so it was almost a bottom up thing there was this public outcry from Italy, Spain, France and elsewhere beginning that Europe somehow had to act. Even if I guess in minds of people was not necessarily, necessarily clear who would that be institutionally and all that but this crisis was so overwhelming. It was clearly also nobody's fault. It took place against the backdrop of, of, of big global forces early on already you could see China and positioning, etc. That people wanted Europe to act. And there were sort of was this this call for action, and it was also heated in particular by Chancellor Merkel, who heard that call, and who decided and I think that this this is really decisive that because of the nature, the unique nature of this crisis of public health, the human suffering, the dimension of life and death, even Germany, in particular, could not afford to again play the rule of the Scrooge of the Plop, or the master of discipline and austerity and that Germany had to step in and that was one of the key moments in this whole crisis and as a result, I think the, the power configuration in the European Union in particular in the economic and financial affairs has dramatically changed. And I think maybe just going one last time briefly back to the financial crisis. Because of crisis there was clearly it was top down measures, the decisions that were taken be it on reforms or austerity or solidarity. They were asked for by economic experts by central bankers and government leaders took these decisions against their will and they had to almost push them through very reluctant parliaments and public opinions. That is new, and that I think really accelerated the political action is public opinion dimension. Now let me spend to conclude a little time on on the geopolitical dimension because that is, in my view the other really fascinating novelty of this crisis. The Europeans during the Europeans as a whole and not just your as in you related the people on the European continent, let's put it very broadly experienced a new and completely unexpected vulnerability. In terms of public health, because a crisis like this a infectious disease. It's simply not supposed to happen on the European continent. This was, let's say for far away Asia for Africa. Think of SARS or Ebola that was not supposed to happen in our welfare, modern states, etc. So it was a moment of vulnerability but not only in terms of public health. It was also geopolitically. It was a moment, what I call in the book of geopolitical loneliness of solitude. Europeans felt alone. On the one hand, we saw early on China coming in with its by now famous mask and vaccine diplomacy when Italy asked help to its European partners late February 2020 I mentioned this non help came. It was the Chinese Red Cross, which landed a plane full of medical material on an airport around Rome. And not a Milan which was the center of the crisis and the stressing even the diplomatic importance of this action. So China in a way has entered the public awareness as a as a geopolitical actor of the Europeans of obviously in crowds like the ones we announced here among foreign and the European policy expert, China had been there. But for the public at large, I would say China is now an actor. But it was also looking at the other side of the globe, the United States, which was less engaged or to put it less diplomatically, which was nowhere to be seen. And which was as your own fintano tool put it in a memorable color, which was an object of pity. For the first time probably in the in the history of the US. The US was an object of pity in particular, at the moment when President Trump recommended his citizens to to to take some bleach to cure, or to be better protected against the virus and dozens of Americans went to the hospital after they had searched under their own sinks for for some some ad hoc medication. Now, as a result of that moment of of geopolitical loneliness. In a way you lead us to the third big decision. The vaccines and the government recovery fund was less concrete, maybe then those two but still conceptually very important, they endorsed the concept of strategic autonomy. This is October 2020 European Council for the first time. This concept of strategic autonomy or strategic sovereignty as it is now called in the German coalition government agreement was endorsed until then it had always encountered a lot of resistance. In particular, by defense ministers because it was considered to be anti American implicitly or anti NATO. But now as a result of of the pandemic in a way this this concept has been taken from the pure security defense field into economic policy economic security industrial policy, more widely. Of course the pharmaceutical vulnerability the lack of mouth masks in Europe was the immediate cause of this change, but it's going much farther than that. And indeed it will have ramifications for for EU economic policy, much more widely and may even challenge the EU's traditional open stance on World Trade and open stands which I know is cherished by Ireland. And also if I may say so by my own country, the Netherlands, even if I'm speaking to you from from Brussels, obviously I follow closely what's happening in and run the Hague. Now, briefly, it's good to remind ourselves that this strategic autonomous decision or this concept was not the only one being put forward at the same time. Because the two other great economic powers in the world, China and the US took more or less simultaneously same conclusion. The Chinese President Xi Jinping developed from May 2020 as well, the concept of dual circulation which is more or less the same thing making a difference between the, the domestic market for China and the market with the rest of the world where state help in a way state support for enterprise but also then candidate Joe Biden in July 2020 made exactly the same analysis as part of his election campaign that the United States needed to be more resilient in terms of supply change and he promised to take action and he has done sense. So, and of course, this is not just a pandemic this is taking place against the global backdrop of the US China rivalry, where not just pharmaceutical material but a lot of industrial production is, is, is part of, of a global fight on supremacy, be it semiconductors or rare earth or 5G, etc. And so, when we look at the, at the EU more particularly it's therefore important to realize that this is, this is a wider global movement, almost of economic and industrial reorientation which will get all kinds of policy consequences in the in the Brussels system but these forces, they will remain with us. The pandemic has accelerated them, maybe brought them to light some extent. But they will remain with us. And therefore, it is not. It's not just about the European Union post Brexit. I'm not saying that here, but it is almost about the European Union after the end of Pax Americana, or at least after a global multilateral etc order which has been with us since 1945 so the rupture or the is is much more fundamental. So please, it's 230 berries so we'll stop here, but what I will offer an answer to some of your questions I hope is a comparison between Ireland and the Netherlands in this respect which which may be instructive for you and how to relate to these changes but but at this point I, I don't want to speak too long so please over to you and to the federal audience.


Sometimes when we look at these diseases, they're being used as models for examples of common disease or rare disease or whatever. So do you see it as being modeling of a disease or can an investigator come in with a very, very specific disease focus that isn't necessarily relevant to other disease types? Because I think that makes a big difference. Yeah, so I think I'll start. We haven't actually discussed this in depth about what types of diseases we study. I think we would like to see these as models for other diseases because we do want to develop a generalizable approach. But I think we'd be open to a particular disease that was particularly compelling because of samples or other existing data. Having said that, I think we are especially interested in the generalizable components that could be learned. And while one might study two very different disorders, which have very different biology and phenotype, with respect to how best to study the genetic role of that disorder, how best to learn which variants are important, there we think there could be a lot of generalizability. Eric. So I have a clarifying question that other people may have, but I'll ask now. What's the difference between the computational analysis centers and the data analysis center in the coordinating center? I'm confused about that. Could you clarify please? Yeah, I'll start and then I can turn over my colleagues. So the data analysis center is really going to be focused on creating the encyclopedia, analyzing the data that's been submitted, and figuring out how we can actually annotate the genome for identifying the functional elements. The computational analysis groups are really the best ideas from the researchers about how to enhance, and you'll derive biological insights to learn about disease, develop new methodologies. I had a similar question as Eric in general scoped there. So the complexity of the data will only increase from this because you've got the functional characterization and so on. And the computational, the new scheme in computational is investigator initiated, so that's very good. But you're focusing, there's less in the data analysis center, right? The discussions from the working group and other, is there sufficient analytical horsepower behind the data generation given the greater complexity? Right, so I think we were considering that for recognizing that ZORI pretty large budget, and some of this analysis can be, we want to get the data out there so the community can analyze it, but I think your point is well taken that we do have new data types coming in that may require different, kinds of analyses early on in understanding really what the data is saying. So I don't know Dan or Mike, do you want to say anything? So I would just add to that that part of the encode philosophy is that the data are out there as a resource for the community. People use the data in very different ways. So part of the analysis is use specific individual users say I need to get this out of the data and then they extract it. We don't think we could pre-compute all of that for everybody. We do some of the basic data processing like uniformly process the data, call elements and so forth. So just a general comment. I want to express my enthusiasm for the transition from cataloging to using the information in the translational aspect. It's challenging. It's enormously challenging. But I think you all and the encode investigators and the advisor, you know, the workshop you've had is pushing that envelope as much as you can. I think it's greatly beneficial. Then one other comment is you emphasized in several places of community engagement, which again I think is very important going forward. But the emphasis tends to be on samples and data. The community has samples and data. I would encourage you to have focus groups and get questions from the community. So the encode investigators, whoever is funded in the next round, are working on relevant problems for the community. And again, that's going to be challenging because investigators tend to be focused on a particular tissue or a particular assay. But again, I think as much as it can be pushed to work on problems that are relevant for the community, I think is very important going forward. And I'll just put in a shameless plug right now for the users meeting that we're going to be having at the end of June and beginning of July that Eric referred to. I think part of that is we do want to get input from the research community about the utility of the resource and how we can improve that. And people are interested in that workshop. You can go to encode2015.org and register. It's my shameless plug. So can we now move on to go back to the specific initiatives? Rudy, how would you like to do this? Are there specific comments or questions about initiative one? So I like this very much. And I just would ask that the focus on mouse I completely understand. But I would be more comfortable if it was written in a way that if somebody came in with an interesting idea that wasn't mouse-centric and they could justify it and it was good science, that that was enabled rather than restricting it to an organism. Because you're trying to capture more ideas. I completely understand that there's a lot of data in there, so it'd be hard to imagine that. But I always liked the flexibility that someone could put an idea in that we hadn't thought about. So are you saying that we could expand mouse or are you saying we'd be open to other organisms? I think somebody could come in, I would say, other organisms if there's a really, really good justification. How was that worded in the past? It had to be that the new model organism had to somehow enable discovery in the human? In the previous round of ENCODE what we did was we didn't have it wide open. We had the initiative in 2012 was for first priority for human, second on mouse, and then continuing modern code fly and worm if it was very well justified. But yes, it didn't have to support the analysis of the human genome. Bringing in additional model organisms creates a whole lot of other challenges for the data coordination and analysis center. I don't know if anyone would comment on that or other knowledgeable people. I'll be more specific. I think zebrafish is becoming a more and more common model that's being used to rapidly assess functionality. So I just feel like that would be another place where it could come in. But I mean, I understand it makes a complex environment, but I just don't like restricting if we can avoid restricting. Harold? Okay. So I think where that comes in, Howard, is more on the functional characterization of the elements. But I don't think you're saying that you want to create a functional element catalog. You want to add another organism to the catalog part of this. So I think this initiative is more about defining the functional elements. So because of the amount of funds, if you put that over too many organisms, now you don't do a deep enough cataloging effort. But I think the characterization part did include any model organism as long as it was fully justified. So I think maybe these are different. So I understand that. I just always find it uncomfortable when we restrict it to something. So I don't know how somebody would go in and map this and make this effective. But if you don't allow ideas, we don't have a chance to get the ideas. I think you can say that it's, you know, I think you can put, there'd have to be some really special reasons why there'd be another idea. So how would you do that if you had one that was doing one data type in one organism, one that was doing another data type in another organism, and then you want us to fund five different organisms and competing with a human and mouse going under the same egg-cack. It seems a little daunting. My concern also is that, so I understand your point, but my concern also is you don't want people putting a lot of time in writing for polls. I mean, what is fully justified or well-justified? And I just worry a little bit about that part. On the other hand, I can, you could put in here any organisms eligible as long as it's really well-justified. Then they have to contact the program staff to really see if they can pull it off. But I would put in here strongly encouraged to contact program staff before you go down this road if it's other than mouse and human. Perfect. We have a couple of our council members who we had wanted to lead this session, Jay and Eric. Jay, did you? I can chime in. So I tend to agree with Carol and specifically for that reason. I think if, particularly that we're already at 90-10 human mouse, which I think is something that merits discussion, further diluting it is challenging. And also if there's a programmatic desire to not fund more than human and mouse than probably having people put in that work doesn't make sense unless they contact the program officers first. So I'll just make a more general comment, which is I thought the workshop was outstanding. I was there, but I wasn't one of the organizers and just hats off to Carol and Eric and the other organizers of that. And then also to Mike and Elise, I feel like the concept document that came out here really closely echoed or matched I think a lot of what the main themes were at the workshop. And you did a great job, I think, of capturing it. On this first concept, I think, or this first subpart, some of my questions that I think I still have, which I think have come up a little bit before, but can you remind us from like a 2012 perspective when the funding was at the same level, is this a smaller pot that's going to mapping relative to the other parts? That's one. And then two, I was wondering if, and a little trouble remembering, are there specific functional, specific data types that you have in mind that have not been captured to date that are high on the priority list or is it more kind of we want to keep things open in case people have a great idea? There's a lot of questions in there. So for FY 12, the data production and mapping centers had $22 million in activities that were ones that were continuing on through. We had a couple of bridge fundings, where we actually closed out actually some, or we can bridge some of the modern code projects, so the money was a little bit more. But the $22 million was for the mapping. Then that went down actually to 19.2 and then currently is 18.5. A smaller fraction would be devoted to mapping program. And then I guess the other question was whether you had specific activities or specific assays in mind to consider adding or whether it was more of an open call. So I think we are open to new ones. I think in the concept clearance, we specifically did talk about mapping all transcription factors and at least two cell types. I think that was laid out there. I think we're definitely open for new technologies, new methodologies that maybe have better information contact, higher throughput, more cost effective. We can imagine supporting more of long range interactions because we don't support a lot of that now. We know that that's very useful. So we're open to all of those. I mean, the field is rapidly changing. So I think we would be foolish to be too narrow to start. Yeah, I just wanted to echo the comments of Jay about the meeting. I thought the presentation captured very well what was discussed at the meeting. I also wanted to comment on Howard's concern. I think the idea of using other model organisms within that functional category is wide open for the second thing that we'll talk about, the second Parfait. I think within that, it's fairly broad. I think that would probably be the place to really explore model organisms which I highly support. Within this particular mapping, the prescription of some ratio of mouse to human, I think it's difficult to try to get your arms around that because some of the disease focus, for example, in the mouse might be fetal, right? So you might have transgenic mouse models that mimic a disease and you want to use that as your model system, but if that's in fetal, that wouldn't be part of the plan, I guess. So I just wanted to throw out the idea that both the mapping resolution as well as the disease models could encounter stages of development which might not be covered in the existing description of the center. And that we should be wide open to those kinds of possibilities. One second. Bob Nussbaum, are you on the phone? Did you have comments? I am on the phone and I had no issues with this first functional element mapping center. Most of what I have to say is about two, three, and four. Okay, we'll bring you back then. So I find the proposal, the concept very interesting. I'm daunted. I find daunting the dimension, the infinite dimensionality and I'm, you know, several times during the write-up you have this very carefully chosen phrase about bounding the space or something like that, right? And so, but I guess I'm wondering and sort of, you know, executing this, how you actually deal with the infinite dimensionality of things. So you just mentioned it would be great to map all transcription factors into cell lines. Well, okay, there's an all. Well, just to point out that very sentence sort of illustrates the problem. And then if I think about, okay, and you're going to convey, you're going to translate that into a disease space. So I'm sort of wondering what is a disease sample? Is a disease sample a cell line? Obviously there are only certain diseases from which you can meaningfully derive cell lines. We're talking about tissue samples. How do you map transcription factor binding sites from two cell lines? How do you actually connect that in any meaningful way to disease studies? And so I'm just, I'm very enthusiastic. But I just think about operationally. How do you reduce the infinite dimensionality of this thing into something that applicants and reviewers can handle? Yeah, I think that that's a really great question. So the idea of this sort of very, very large matrix, it's overwhelming as we've come up against before. And this was discussed in the workshop. And one of the ideas that was brought out was that if you could sort of aggressively dimensionality reduce the matrix and identify different elements, key cell types, key disease samples that would sort of maximize your ability to impute to other other spaces of this matrix that that would, to make it more generalizable, that that would be a sort of conceptual direction. You go, I mean, how do you do that practically? That's a research question. There are a couple ideas that were sort of brought up at the workshop. One idea was just to get the data where you can get the data, you know, get the samples that are easiest to study first and then model based on that and try to identify areas of the matrix where you can extrapolate to another suggestion was to start out with a modeling component where you try to figure out how to impute to some of these areas of this matrix, see where your models break down, realize that now we need samples in this area and sort of do iterations of that to identify regions of this matrix that you might fill in. But this is a great question. And I think the idea was that we would have the applicants make a proposal and then the group would come together and strategize, you know, in the mapping centers but also the EDCAC as well. Jay, you wanted to, oh, I'm sorry, Jaden and Carol. So the bounding questions Dan pointed out came up many times during the workshop and I think in the end there were many different viewpoints in the participants about how that bounding could happen. And a lot of it was dependent on the biological question at hand and so I think in this concept document the issues brought up without a specific solution because the idea would be that the investigators would have to justify that what they're proposing has a reasonable bound on it rather than imposing a particular strategy for that bounding here specifically it would be left as a principle upon which the proposals would be evaluated. That was my recollection. Let me just echoing things that I think of sort of circle around this table fairly frequently. We talk about actually, we talk about as a council and actually the language of these clearances talks about the need to sort of expand the tent to bring more people, you know, more investigators into the mix. And Carol, I like what you've just said but I want to flip it around and say just framing this as a grantsmanship challenge. This strikes me as being an enormous challenge for people who are not inside the tent to read the comments that you just made Carol about how, you know, there's so many sort of unspecified variables yet there will be, as always occurs in a study section the right answers emerge, right? And so this strikes me as posing an enormous grantsmanship challenge for people who are not already completely inside the tent to figure out, okay, what is going to satisfy a study section with all of these unspecified dimensions? And I mean people with great ideas and great biological insights having to navigate and chart these grantsmanship waters. It's the classic problem, right? You don't want to define things so tightly that you leave things, you leave people out but yet you have to define it well enough that people can know how to respond. It's a classic problem. I wish I had a specific answer. We can also have a broader discussion of this, I think, big challenge with broader swath of the community as well to come up with ideas. Other questions or comments about initiative? Joe? Let me just comment. I think the user workshop that will have great opportunity to get input about the kinds of things the community is doing and would like to see. There may be unique opportunities. I think that was part of the discussion we had where some systems may be really ripe to study some developmental process, let's say just cells in a dish that are differentiated and there's a disease model that you can overlay on top of that that's been well-validated and that could be a collaboration between those expert labs that have spent 20 years developing that particular model to then put that into the pipeline. So that would be one example. One you could be opportunistic. A five-second rule if no one jumps in then it's time to take an action. So can I get a motion to accept or approve concept initiative number one? In a second? All in favor? Aye. Thank you Bob. Any opposed? Any abstentions? Thank you. On to initiative two then. This is Bob. Could I speak up about initiative two? Sure, why don't you leave this off Bob? Okay, thanks. I had a lot of difficulty reading this document and trying to understand exactly what element two was about and after talking to Mike at length about it listening to the conversation this morning and then reading it and re-reading it I think I finally understand it and the problem that I had I think really just has to do with some language and that I would like to recommend some different language to describe the functional element characterization center. I think there needs to be some it's not really that you're trying to create a set of well characterized and validated functional elements it's that you're trying to enhance the catalog of candidates by characterizing and validating those functional elements in healthy and disease states and that you have to say something in there that's not enough to show a biochemical assay that is thought or is implied to have functional impact from which one could then infer perhaps an impact on health and disease. There needs to be a demonstration of a connection between an element that has a biochemical signature of some kind and a functional activity in health in the healthy state and in disease and this is not different from what I think this concept is about I just think the language needs to be clearer so that people who are perhaps at the periphery of the tent or perhaps even outside the tent can really understand your intent a little bit better. Well taken thank you. I mean for example if you go to the what's new page which is page two under the functional element characterization centers you say it's a new activity targeted at validating and characterizing candidate functional elements well I think that really says what it is that you want whereas on page one on the overview I think that actually gets obfuscated in this statement of the purpose. I mean I guess what really helped me understand this functional element characterization and the difference between the mapping more than anything else was a model and the model that I used to think this through with BCL 11a how you have an enhancer site within BCL 11a that was identified by ENCODE as one of the catalog of candidate functional elements you have the locus control region and the globin locus which had been identified before ENCODE even existed as a both a candidate and a real functional element and it was a demonstration of a variation in that enhancer binding site BCL 11a that resulted in a quantitative difference in the expression of BCL 11a and therefore a difference in the degree to which beta globin switching occurred resulting in enhanced fetal hemoglobin and an improvement in the critical cell anemia because of having additional fetal hemoglobin I mean that connection I think that's a postage child for what you'd like to see in the functional element characterization center it's a beautiful trans acting transacting mechanism I'd like to see hundreds, thousands of those particularly since the BCL 11a one was a GWAS hit so connecting it to the GWAS I think it would be an important thing to try to at least suggest not require but suggest in functional element characterization centers that's it, that's all I had to say so I know when I read an FOA one of the things that really helps me understand what this is all about is the section where they say examples of such research projects could include that's left out of these concept documents and so I think the message we're getting is give a serious thought to how those will be framed thank you aside from the sort of the generalities of getting consented samples how would the use of samples that are specifically consented help or is that just an NIH wide policy is the idea to go back to specific patients or is that part of this RFA or how does that work the idea is the data does not go through dbGaP to get to the data the primary data through the encode for all I think that part is critical I think keeping this data that's generated by encode as utterly accessible as possible even if it means giving up some good samples is important 5 second rule is being imposed can I get a motion to approve or accept the concept as proposed approve second all in favor aye any opposed any abstentions thank you on to number 3 I had a question about 3 and 4 together and I think this may echo what Eric said earlier which is and since I don't need to create software for analysis or work on databases is separating the computational analysis expertise from the database into the data and resources to support analysis is that a clear distinction or should there be more emphasis on the coordination of those two elements Bob I think this is less about separating out the basic data processing and more about separating out projects that are designed to use the resource in different analyses and I would point out that this is the way the current encode project is set up we set out some broad areas that people could put in computational projects either better ways to identify elements better ways to predict their function or better ways to look at elements associated with disease investigators that suggested projects like Robert Klein I want to see if I can use the encode data for disease or others looking like Sundas Kalas Colin Dewey looking to see they wanted to learn are there better ways to map to repetitive elements and so forth so for the computational analysis the idea is these are individual projects that are not the core mission of the consortium because the data analysis center would be doing things that are core mission of the consortium like defining how the basic data processing is done and the uniform data processing is done that makes sense and I think the idea of essentially carving out a place for people with smart ideas and how to do specific analyses for specific projects is a good idea can I pick up that question so I think one of the things that encode can be most proud of is this something you've already highlighted which is the enormous number of publications that investigators not funded by encode have published not just referencing encode but using encode data I think it's fantastic so but when I look at this one then I get in light of that enormous community use of the encode data I get a little confused because I say is this an invitation to users of encode data to apply for funding to do their analysis of encode data and where's the line you see where I'm I think you see where I'm going I mean I so I'd love to hear some commentary on what distinguishes one of the middle encode user from the applicant or program three I think it's pretty standard and we've heard it in today's discussion this tension of how do we bring more people into encodes that we get the best minds participating and then how do we just generate the resource and leave it to individual investigators to use the resource we're trying to do both at the same time but we have balance to bring in a limited number of computational projects that would hopefully illustrate how the data can be used to other users but yes there is this tension of we brought everybody into encode that's one way to to twiddle the dial as Eric would say where we could say we wouldn't have anybody in this and solely leave it to outside users this is the balance that we're looking at I'd just like to add that these groups primarily I think I'm not even speaking are largely focused on methods development and not just on their favorite research disease or project although I think we are open to that in this initiative and also by being part of the consortium they really are getting in on very early discussions about the data and looking under the hood as you will at the data and sort of bringing in an outsider's view about processing data bringing in specific expertise that's been helpful to creating a better resource for the community Joan? I just wanted to comment my experience with this group the current group is that they participate in a very integrated way for example with the mapping centers although their function is to develop these novel tools often times during the conversations what they're doing initially will come up we can use that to validate across all the data sets which ones are outliers for example we've got some new approach to do that so there's a real mixing beyond their own interest with the production groups and ways of looking at that data that really are fertilized by having them as part of the consortium Eric do you want to say something? I find the juxtaposition of initiated and U01 on the same slide is sort of drawing maybe you're not the right person to make a comment on that I can understand why you want to do it that way but it feels like it's investigator initiated all right but the institute is still going to sort of direct the way things happen If I had a chance to edit this slide earlier today as we were having a discussion I would have but it's already on here I can understand that that's misleading I think the idea here really is the ideas from the investigators we're not saying we want this exact work being done but it is an initiative with set of slide funds I would just add to that that with the current computational analysis programs projects they are they have a great deal of freedom and a lot of the cooperative agreement part stems in things like making sure that they follow the consortium practices that they're sharing their software rapidly and so forth as opposed to the consortium or NHGRI staff telling them they need to change their project or this is what it is they do their projects as they wrote them and as they see So as you were describing the function of these groups I now got confused we actually have three groups doing analysis here right we have those in the production centers which historically have been pretty strong and now these investigator led ones now I'm confused about the function of the DAC and the production center analysts themselves So the analysis under the production center is really just to do quality assessment of their own data of course they're free to publish on their own data more than that I think I'm not sure and the DAC is to bring those data together from the different member of different production centers So the DCC houses, accessions the data displays the data and gets it into GO and so forth whereas the DAC the data analysis center is involved in the basic processing and harmonizing the data deciding how that should be done the DCC actually does the computations So I mean these are complex data types and many decisions to be made for instance we wrestle with what's the best way to display transcriptome data you could say this is an expression by Exxon, this is an expression by transcript this is an expression by Gene and once you've made one of these decisions which some people will grumble about no matter how you make it then how do you actually implement that again there's no one best practice So the DAC is very involved in that part setting up the basic computation that should be done with each data type and making sure that the data are uniformly processed to maximize the chance of comparison across groups and data type Maybe that was not the intent when it was written but the way it appears is that the model of download is still predominantly what will be done in this type of project whereas it might not be the case with very large data sets and having people come and compute where the data are so I wonder if any consideration was given to a a different kind of setup in that case if having a separate cornea center in the analysis center would be a good thing to do Are we jumping to number 4? Yes Well it is related because this 3 is assuming everyone will download data which might not be the case but the model that we use now which was suggested by the investigators as part of their application is that not only do we have the data at Geo term of award we have data at Amazon cloud and we also have the uniform processing pipelines at the Amazon cloud so we think we are offering users both options they can download the data they wish analyze it with any tool they have they can use the data in the cloud if they wish they can analyze it with any tool of theirs or any tool of ours we are trying to give people as much flexibility as possible so I apologize if that doesn't come across Sorry my comments related to the next one because we were drifting a bit Let me ask you to clarify how much of initiative 3 is we want high quality analysis done of all these data produced in 1 and 2 versus we want new methods of analysis is there a balance there or is it trying to do both I think it is more focused on new methodologies and new approaches to analyzing data rather than I have got my favorite data set you really have to bring something novel and new to this it is going to be generalizable not my favorite project Other questions about initiative 3 can I get a motion to accept or approve the concept Second All in favor Any opposed Any abstentions Thank you You said you had a question on My question was just a clarification that this group so additional functions that will have to be taken on that wouldn't be for example part of the other groups either the production center analysis that happens there or the number 3 groups would be interacting with the community now to create process their data to work with them that is going to be a completely new function that is embedded in this that really requires a dedicated effort because we do want to capture there is a lot of great science out there these tools are now in the hands of many laboratories but you need to have standards that are in place and quality checks and people dedicated to that to bring that data in to make the encyclopedia more rich It's really open for any other comments I had a question about the outreach to the community and some of the tutorials and teaching I've seen there's some good videos on how to use encode data I think there was an ASHG workshop which I think was very quickly subscribed to fullness if I remember correctly I don't know how the registration is going for your June meeting which is in Potomac just if you could just give me some idea about how the outreach and education component of this is going so that one was announced just recently and so with that shameless plug-in there is still room I think we can have up to a couple hundred people that can attend and I think we're trying to get the word out for that yes you're correct that the ASHG workshops I think were sold out very very quickly Yes it's fairly short notice for the Potomac meeting but I'm just thinking in general maybe some additional efforts with geographical localizations west, middle and east might be considered part of the EDCAC's responsibilities Yeah I think that's a good suggestion I'd also point out that we have plans to videotape much of the upcoming users meeting and we're going to try to put many of those sessions freely available online as tutorials to increase use of the encoded resources Great, thanks In the slide you have, you expect the DCC and the DAC to function as a single entity so why then are you splitting them up into two funded mechanisms and are you expected then to have pairs of applications come in in a coordinated manner? Yes so we had we felt that the expertise for the DCC and the DAC were sufficiently different than to have people up front necessarily come together if we have one application that scores incredibly well for the DCC part and not as well for the DAC part or vice versa and it's more difficult to come up with a rational funding plan and so we certainly like your feedback on this we've gone back and forth it has worked well under the current plan a current funding for our code and so we decided to go along with that for this round I think they are the same you could realize some cost savings in might be easier to integrate because it's often the case that whoever sets the data analysis environment has to try it out has to you know really know what kind of environment they need to set get the permissions right and everything and having two different groups doing that is a bit of a coordination challenge I mean I don't think we see a lot of duplication of effort at this point but we can certainly consider that I think you're ready for lunch so if there are no further comments can I have a motion to approve? second all in favor any opposed any abstentions ok thank you very much team function or team encode whatever you're calling yourselves now so we're going to take about an hour break I want you to please reconvene at 1.30 but before you bolt from the table this is council photo day we need to update the photo that's on the web so if you could just sit tight there's a room and a photographer set aside for the picture everybody everybody gets their picture taken


America's number one adventurer K7 from a United States secret agent who operated in 22 countries on land on sea and in the air Brings you another story of today Here is K7 Ladies and gentlemen In the early months of 1939 the governments of many countries found dissension within the ranks of their cabinets and consoles Some of the lawmakers were outspoken for peace Others favored strong demands and a militaristic attitude toward the world members of this latter group in one country Formed the blood and steel society This society was ruthless Some patriots and officials who opposed war were murdered or forced to accept the society's views It is the story of the blood and steel society and how it was crushed that my old friend John Hohlbroek Introduces now Thank You K7 In these troubled days in the world's history. There are many plots and counter plots which are never made public It is the story of such a plot which K7 tells now it begins as two high officials of a foreign government confer with each other I issued this statement to the newspapers this morning thought I And then to go through with my speech It is my duty The people should know the situation we face. I agree with you go back But look at this You too yes, I do have been threatened with death because I support you They know I do not approve of their military plans Our people want peace go back. I intend to fight side by side with you. Thank you. I thought I Felt sure of your support It is one of the reasons I have come to you This speech it is the one I am to deliver before the citizens rally I leave this copy with you If anything should happen saying But if the society of blood and steel should kill me I want your promise to deliver the speech for me You have that promise And I will leave you I'm so tired wait for one thing more You have your letter from the society with you. Yes. I haven't even turned it over to the police. I would give it to me But why why do you want it because I have sent word to an old friend secret agent K7 I Intent to smash this so-called society their ring of murderers who threaten our peace K7 I've heard of him But here here is the letter. I leave it with you Now I must go thank you for your promise to deliver my speech If they should enough for they would not bear. I'm not so sure Well good night. Good night. I still have work to do or I would go with you. I understand What is an important day? Committee meets again. Yes, and I'm afraid of the results of the meeting Good night. Good night. My friend A few hours later the voice of K7 cracked through the ether over a secret radio wavelength set aside for diplomatic messages The next day an airplane landed on the small airfield outside the capital city a short time later. Mr. Turok received the visitor You you have a special agent. No, it's yours only the assistance of special agent and it is here He has sent me to you because he prefers to remain unknown for the price, but you are young and beautiful What can you do? I can help you miss you first the second letter you have them Then give them to me and wishes to examine the handwriting of course you can have them But how can they help neither you nor even them knows anyone here and have his own methods of operating this year already He's setting up his laboratory. He asked me to get the letters. I please myself in your hands Here are the letters. Take them. Thank you, sir Tomorrow you will make the speech mr. Kovac intended to make yes, but myself tomorrow. I speak for my friend If I'm allowed to live until then you will speak, miss you and you will use what is in this package I'm here sent it to you the instructions inside now. I must go back to him and he communicates with you later Good luck, miss you and tomorrow Speak as you have never spoken before speak for peace With those words Yvonne departed leaving a mysterious package on Monsieur Turok's desk a few hours later She stood at M side as they use the powerful microscope There were two men Yvonne these bullets prove it Monsieur Kovac died from a bullet fired from a 45 revolver the second one is from the 38 It would not have been fatal, but am we have less than 24 hours. How are you going to trace the gun? We won't have time to do that Yvonne, but we have time to do something else We're going to find the identity of the two men who fired the shots by placing the handwriting and the two Reflecting notes Turok and Kovac received. How can we go short of time? My plan is already in operation. Oh, here I'll show you now. We've both got to work fast. Do you see these papers? Yes, right? They are petitions exactly Yvonne They are petitions for war Tonight the lawmakers are all here in the city. They gathered in hotel lobby talking of Turok's speech and of Kovac's death We're going to circulate among them and get signatures for these petitions then you will compare is that it? That's it. It's a long chance Yvonne, but we must take it M and Yvonne met with fair success They went to the hotels and cafes and I stole to sign their petition their work was completed a little a little after midnight They had more than 100 names. They went immediately to M's temporary laboratory and started the difficult job of comparing Yvonne, I found it. Look at the signature. He is Zalda. It's the same him. You will arrest him Oh, no, that would be too dangerous. There may be others. Then how are you going to... I'm going to trailing Yvonne I'm going to stay at his side until after Turok has made a speech then if nothing has happened I'll pay some under arrest. How can I help you? There is nothing you can do now Yvonne That's nearly 4 a.m. Go to your room and sleep and tomorrow tomorrow when the public assembly from the Great Square Be in the front ranks watch for me Unless I am mistaken this killer Zalda will also be there when Turok begins to speak I will be at his side. I am to come to you. Yes, if you can if anything happens Keep calm. The police will be with me. In case of a disturbance the men causing it will be seized and lashed to a room underneath the Speaker stand before the crowd knows what has happened. If there is a disturbance come to be there You'll pass or let you through. I'll be there him at your side The next day found a great crowd in the square of the capital there were flags and shouts for peace Then Monsieur Turok the Patriot was introduced He is here to read the speech of his dead friend Paul Kovac who was also your friend It is fitting that we should be quiet as he talks to us in his sorrow Monsieur Turok fellow citizens Paul was my friend He came to me on the night he died And asked that I take his place if if anything happened Paul Kovac the great Patriot Knew he was a marked man I suppose that now I also have been marked for death But our country calls and I must say what is in my heart As the Patriot spoke a beautiful woman among the front ranks of the citizens moved quietly to the side of M It was Ivan both she and M watched a man who stood just in front of them Suddenly the man's hand moved toward his pocket Ivan not had a warning him.  I have you covered. Who are you? Around our restaurant Walks straight ahead of the door into the speaker's platform. You can't stop the society of blood and steel walks straight ahead. I said Ivan follow us M. Ivan and their prisoners outer had almost reached the door that led to the room under the speaker stand When suddenly a shot rang out from another quarter The speaker faltered as the police jumped on the man who had fired the crowd stood still in awe Mr. Taurak has been shot. Oh here be all right Ivan He's wearing a bulletproof vest. That is what was on the package you left on his desk Now come on. We've got to get this man under the stands the crowd might get out of order We other will be seized then. Mr. Taurak continued. I am not injured my friend That shot which was intended for me Should make you realize the kind of men who would plunge our country into war They are desperate Unstrupulous they care not for my life nor for the lives of your son and your daughter A minute later the man who had fired the bullet was also hustled under the stand by the police There M faced zorda and the other would be assassin You have both failed I charge both of you with the murder of paul kovac. You'll have to prove that we shot him That proof is in my hands zorda these two revolvers This 45 is yours a bullet from this gun killed paul kovac This other gun belonging to your accomplice is the 38 it too was used on paul kovac All right, take him away. Yes, sir. Come on. Um, are you sure with your Taurak is an injured positive Iran He was wearing the bulletproof vest. You took to him Suppose we step outside and hear the finish of his speech. Oh, I'd love to You have heard my message I hope the word peace will come from both your heart and your lips Work is finished. There will be no war here Only lost in peace You should be proud Your work has made peace possible For the time the society of the blood and steel has been defeated Whether or not it will be heard from again is problematical For unfortunately, right does not always conquer might in our world today However, we must continue to work for peace Listen for my next story This is k7 speaking


As we're filming this, it's Giving Tuesday. What? Well, you have Black Friday, and you have Cyber Monday, and you have Giving Tuesday. So, I'll be giving it to your mom. I was about to say that. Juice! Hey, welcome back to our studio. Of course. I'm Rick. You can follow us on Instagram. Twitter for more juicy content. Thank you to our resource on Patreon. Yes. Go to the account, subscribe, like, button. Thank you, thank you, thank you, thank you, thank you. And today, we got a game. What kind of a game? One that you did really well at. Is it the eyes again? Yeah, the eyes have it. It's the actress. Okay. So, the same person that made the game for... Thank you for the last one. Awesome. Probably the best game Rick's ever done. For sure. What is this notification from Sag? Tell us about the vote. Who cares? But... You distracted me.  Would they tell you, vote yes? Yeah. Yeah, of course they did. Anyways, if you haven't seen the first game that we did, the actors from all industries. Somebody else made this. Obviously, I cannot make the games for us because then I would see the answers. So, somebody made this game for us and now this is the actress version and I'm assuming it's from all industries again. Rick did really well at this one. One of the only games you've ever won. It's true. But if you'd like to send us a game or make us any kind of game, please send us the email and description of every single video. It could be from any industry. Just make sure it's either in like a slideshow format or a video format. And give us a buffer in between like answer and question. Yeah, it's better to have like a blank screen in between the question and the answer than we've had issues in the past before. But excited for this. I'm hoping to redeem myself in the eyes. Thank you for doing this too. It doesn't, we don't take it lightly that you take the time to do this. I take it lightly. He does, I don't. Yeah, I take it very lightly. Anything else we needed to know about the rules? He will tell us. Oh, I don't know why it's taking so long though. That's what she said. All right. Ready? Okay, first of all, that is not an Indian actress. Prove it. 25 questions in total to be as inclusive as possible of an actress of various regions, ages, et cetera. One point per correct answer. If you can't guess the actress's name, if neither of you have said the name of the actress within the first 20 seconds, then the person who either said the correct name of the movie or description of the movie gets the point. You can say the movie name, description immediately, but risk helping the other person get the point. However, after 20 seconds, if they still don't get it, then it's yours. This only includes Indian female actors. All pictures used are fairly recent. Eyebrows have been included to go easy on you for this one. You may not recognize some of these actresses, but you should either through trailers movie series. So there are also some reference movies for you after the name reveal. Okay, great. Because there may be some lesser known actresses. All right. And it said one point, right? Yeah, one point per correct answer. It's too much math. And people say I usually am wrong anyway with my point totals. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I always ask. So he's not paying attention either. Here we go. That's us. I hate this guy. Congratulations, there you go. Thank you. Is that from the last game? That's the last game, yeah.  Clearly. Oh, during the interview? Clearly they didn't watch the entire interview. Yeah, because it happens at the end. Ready? Yes. Tapsy. No. Vidya. Okay. Damn.  One nil, Rick. Alia.  All right, two nil, Rick. Tapsy. Topeka. God damn. This is gonna be like the last game. I think I guess brand beer for like every single one. It's all gonna be Tapsy. Tapsy. Tapsy. And then I won't get Tapsy. Right, right, won't get Tapsy. Three nil, Rick. Oh, that's... Katrina, no. Yeah, I was about to say it.   I said Katrina. I meant Karina. Yeah, I know who you meant. You know who I meant. Yeah, thank you. That was four nil. Okay, here we go. Oh, I know her. Katrina Kaif. Yeah, good job. You got it. Katrina Kaif. Yeah, that's it. Four one. Here we go. What is this one? It's just... Okay, you're just letting us know she'll be in... Which is, it's a Tamil film, right? Merry Christmas, yeah. So she'll be in a Tamil film. Yeah, I thought it was. Did they shoot it in both, I'm guessing? Maybe. Maybe they shot it in Tamil and Hindi. Could be. Anyways, here we go. That's Tapsy. I knew it would happen. I knew it would happen. Five one. Ronnie. Ronnie's eyes are... Yeah, that's not Vidya either. I know this actress, trying to figure out what we've seen her in. Dang. Dang, I know those eyes. Unless it's the lady superstar. Dang it. Nayanthara, I think is her name. Go for that. Oh, yes. That's why I knew her. I wouldn't remember her name, but I wasn't even gonna be able to pinpoint it per se to one of the films we've seen her in. Anyway, good one. Is that Shafali Shah? I don't think so. Yeah, I didn't think so either. Is that the actress from Kala? Which one? Kala. Kala? Yeah. The Mali Elam film? Yeah. I don't know who you're talking about. Well, I don't think I'm gonna get it, so go ahead. I'm just gonna go Shafali Shah, I don't think that's correct though. Oh, you did get it. Oh, cool. Good job. Nice. Hell done. Five to two. Yes, five to two. That's the Lady Superstar. Nayantata, I think. You think so? No.  I'm gonna say, it doesn't look like her, it's very... Hold on. No, it's Tabu. No, that is not Tabu. That's Tabu. No, it is not. It's Tabu. No, go. Say whatever wrong actress you think it is. Don't call it a comeback. Just like Kim Kardashian.  Rashmika. Yeah, Rashmika. I knew the eyes, but I would again, would not... She's an animal, right? Oh yeah, it says right. Yeah. Yeah, okay. Still five to two. Still five to two. Priyanka. Priyanka. Is that a tie? Yeah, it's a tie. Six. Oh, let's just keep it five to two. Yeah, five to two. Make it easier that way. Yeah, that one. Wow, have we seen that many or is it just... Have we seen that many Priyanka films? I don't know that we've seen them. No, no. Yeah, but a bunch we haven't seen. I was like, wow, we've seen a lot of Priyanka films. We have, but we've seen a ton of them. She's still some pretty big ones that we have not seen. Still five to two. Still five to two. I know that one. Dang it. Is that... Trying to figure out her name here from Maiden Heaven and she was in PS1 and 2. No, what's her face? Yeah, I know you're talking about no, her eyes are bigger. Does it start with an S? I don't know. I'm gonna go with that. Interesting, good job. Her eyes look so much smaller in that shot than I'm typically, it doesn't even look like the same. No, it does, that's why I guessed it. Wait, who was she in? I just haven't seen it, maybe. Ramen Raghav 2.0? Who was she in? Yeah, she's one of the girls, she asked with Vicky, yeah. Which by the way, he just recently said that's the role he think he sucked at the most was his role in Ramen Raghav. He just said that recently in an interview. But the reason he said that, no, he didn't. But for him personally, he felt like he didn't connect to the character as deeply as he likes to because he didn't have the kind of life experience that that character has, he couldn't relate to the drug addiction and the problems that he had and he said the older he gets, like every five years he thinks to himself, now I'm ready to play that character.  The more drugs he does. Yeah. All right, so five, three. Yeah. Oh! The one about the... Rashmika. Rashmika? She plays the one, it's the love story where she's the housekeeper and they fall in love with each other and... I think it's Tillitama. Is that who you're thinking of? Because that's my guess. Who do you... Yeah, who played, is it Tillitama who played the... In less stories? No, no, no. It was the movie. You talking, sir? Yes. Was that Tillitama? Okay. That's the first thing we saw. That's who I think it is. Well, I already guessed it, so Tillitama. Within 20 seconds? You didn't even say anything. I said... I said the movie. But first of all, in the rules, even though you didn't say anything, you said in the movie, blah, blah, blah, I said I think it's Tillitama. I think it was... I don't think 20 seconds went by. But I'll give it to you. Oh my God. No, that was the rule. The rule? I said the name! After 20 seconds went by. Oh my God, no. Well, yeah, that's what I was... Let me know in the comments. I'm not being unreasonable here. No, no, and I was just pointing out for... Well, I'm giving you the point, but I don't know that from the time I had said the movie and I was referring to her that I think 20 seconds... That was the first film that we had ever seen her in. That's where we were introduced to her and we were so impressed with her. Not so much him, but we were super impressed and then we went deep dive into her. Yes. Unless I'm wrong, but I'm pretty sure that's the first time we'd ever seen Tillitama. Or was it Kisa? No, we saw that after. We did? That's Punjabi. And so we specifically went out of our way to... I think you're right. Oh, you're fine. I think you're right, Tillitama. 5'4". I recognize those eyes. Is this the Lady Superstar? This is gonna be another one. Everything you're gonna... He's just gonna keep saying Lady Superstar. No, Nayantara. That's just gonna be my guess. I recognize the eyes. I don't know. I recognize the eyes. Nope. Oh! Now I feel bad. See, even that doesn't... The eye... That one now looks... Now thinking about it, that looks like her. That one... That one looks more like her. It doesn't even look like it's from the same shot to me. Yeah, it does kinda look different, right? Yeah. So 5'4", Rick. The mom in Ramleela. Oh, it's her name, that heavyweight actress. The step-mom of She-Head? Yeah. I don't think that's who that is. I don't recognize these eyes, though. Is it the lady from Bahubali? I think her eyes are lighter. Okay. I think... I don't know who they're now. Couldn't, yeah. No. We didn't... She was in Ramleela, Rocky or Ronnie. Yes, she's the... Oh, that's where it is! That's where we recognize her. Got it, okay. She's a well-renowned actress. Yes, been around a long time. Yeah. Like known for parallel cinema, especially. So, no points there. Yeah. 5'4". That's... Ashwarya. 6'4". Rick. Oh, I know those eyes. Dang it. Dang it! I'm just gonna get this lady superstar. That is... Because this is current. That's Rekha. I don't see that, but maybe. Here we go. God damn, Rick. Nice job.  Damn, nice job. That's a good one. Lady superstar! No. No, doggoneit. I know her.  I know who that is. PK. Damn, we've seen her in so much. PK? Is that the lead in PK? Either Katrina Kuiper or Katrina Kupor. No. In PK? It was 100% one of those. I'm forgetting who, but it was one of those. I think it's Lady Superstar. I think I'm right this time. Nayantata. Doggoneit. Why am I blanking on her name? If you just say a lady from PK and you're right, I'll give you the point. Okay. But I don't think... Anushka, yes. She was in PK. It would have said it right there. That was a, I'm looking at a poem. PK cast, Anushka Sharma. Hold on, who else is in it? She's, there you go. I can't believe I was forgetting her name. 8-4? Yeah, 8-4. 8-4. I completely forgot she was in PK. Here we go. South. Dang it, I know those eyes. Whose are, I don't think it's her, but it's just gonna be my guess. Shwooshdika, I don't think it's Shwooshdika. No, it's not Shwooshdika. I know, but that'd be my guess. Dang it. I don't know. Oh, Malayalam actress. Yep, I knew it was South. I need to remember her name, because she's so good in everything that we've ever seen. Great Indian kitchen is the thing and I should have remembered Namisha. Yeah, Namisha. I can't remember that name. Namisha. Because she's a fantastic actress. Lady Superstar. I'm bound to be right. This I don't know. Oh, god damn. Wow! Not Lady Superstar. That's a weird picture of her, if I may say so myself. If it had been that picture from Merzapur, that's all weird. It almost looks digitally altered that shot. It's AI. It looks like it's been altered. Anyway. It's not Lady Superstar. I'll concede. Still at 8-4? Yeah. I can't believe you didn't get it. It's Radhika Apte. I can't believe you didn't immediately recognize Radhika Apte. Fine, 9-4. Kalki. It looked like a rent beer for a rent beer for an Indian gully boy. Because of the bangs.  It's Kalki Keklin. 10-4. You're right. Doast. Oh, I know you. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Dang it. Oh, dang it, that's gonna get me mad. What is her name from, we saw her earlier this year, and we've seen her a lot, but in Vishal's kid's film, she was the militant girl. Oh, yes, I think you're right. What's her name? I don't remember, but I think you're right. I just don't remember her name yet. It's either an S or a K that it starts with. Conkana Conkana, you asked me where I am. I knew we knew it. Conkana Conkana. Doggone it. Yeah. 10-5. Why am I forgetting Big B's wife's name? Oh, you think it's Jaya? Yeah, Jaya. I think it's Jaya Bachchan. Goddamn, you're right. I see it now. Oh, it's Nina Gupta. Nina Gupta. Interesting, but it did look like that, right? Good guess. 10-5 still, I think. Oh, that's Ronnie McCurdy. 11-5. No. No, that's, you don't know that? Sri Devi. 12-5. This is not my game. Make any other game. If you send me an eye game, I'm never playing it ever again. 12-5. I was waiting for Meryl Streep. Why didn't you include Meryl Streep? I was really looking back. I was waiting for Conkana Renault to pop up and say Meryl Streep. Why didn't you include Lady Superstar? How many times I think half of your choice says you started with Tapsi and then it went to Lady Superstar just the whole time. Just a crapshoot of let's try. I think the Lady Superstar. Last game was Ranbir. I kept guessing. Law of averages, you're bound to be right. Yeah, these are your games. Don't ever send me an eye game ever again. I will never open it. Do you think you'd be as good at noses and mouth? No. No? New. No, because I just, yeah. Eyes are my, I've said it before, I'll say it always. They're my favorite part of the body and the thing that I'm most, when I watch actors act, I'm watching their eyes. So it's just, that's the thing I'm always looking at is what their eyes are doing. I watch their crotch. Do you? Yeah. I tell you a lot that your crotch, they call it crotch acting. Interesting, it's a new technique. New technique. Yeah, work from the crotch. It derives from Meisner. Does it? Yeah, it's kind of a slight deviation. So you're supposed to. Living truthfully under imaginary circumstances and sometimes using the crotch. And then they went like this. Ah, I got it. New acting style. Crotch-a-lism. You was really good at it. Oh. Anyways, congratulations to Rick. Don't ever send me these games ever again. But you also forgot Anushka Sharma was in PK. I haven't seen PK since the game. I have, I've probably seen PK seven or eight times. So yeah, I've not seen it since we watched it. It was one of my favorite movies of all time. That's one that I need to rewatch with Steph, because she's actually never seen PK. Really? She never saw three idiots, never saw PK, never saw, was it? Oh my goodness. That was the biggest one we saw in the beginning. Early on? With Amir. Oh, the stars. Did she see stars? I can't remember if she saw stars or not. Yeah, those three. Missed like quintessential ones. Talk about a trifecta. Did she see Rang de Basanti? I don't remember. Maybe. Yeah, three idiots, PK and stars, man. She never saw, my name is Khan or... She still hasn't seen my name is Khan? No, or Devdas. Oh, I knew about Devdas, but my goodness. It's cause those were in the beginning of the channel, she was still working. Still working all the time. But obviously before we had children. And so she was at work, I watched these. While she was at work. Yeah, makes sense. Anyways, now we watch them together. Anyways, let us know how you did in the game. If you did well, if you did poorly, why they didn't include Nayanthara, clearly they are. Or Kangana Rano. Clearly they are biased against Dhammalakters. I'm just saying. That's why I didn't do bad. That's why I did bad, because I'm much more prevalent in... It's true. You know, this is clearly a Bollywood quiz. Might have called it a Bollywood quiz. Exactly. Am I scoring any points? If you'd like to send us another game, from any region, please send it to the email and description of every single video. Yeah. I like them, send more. Josh!


everyone and welcome. This is Melissa Armo with the Stock Swoosh and I wanted to do a marker with you. It's Monday, June 28th. We are getting into last two more days left in June and then July starts. It's hard to believe half the year is over. It's really hard to believe. Half of 2021 is over. That's just crazy to me. July, August, September, October, November, December, six more months till Christmas. So I mean, it is time to get busy, to get organized, to get your goals set. If you are not having a good start to the year, it's halfway through the year, you better get organized, you better get situated, you better get a plan of action together. And one of the things that I do extremely well is I get up in the morning and I rate the gaps that I do in the pre-market. That's how I make the picks on options trades, on day trades, all of the above. This was a nice day trade today. The QQQ's gapped up. I don't even know why they gapped up. To be honest with you, I didn't even look at it and I didn't even care. We closed red on Friday. I knew that was basically buff kiss, nothing whatsoever at all. So many people have been saying, I'm just going to blow this up here, that the markets extended and everyone, all these day traders are like these retail traders, we're getting extended, extended, extended. We're due for a shell off, we're due for a pullback. I don't see it that way. To me, one, we're not extended. Number two, today was a breakout. We're not extended. Today was a breakout.  I'm not saying that at all. But so many of the people think that this market is eminent to fall or crash. And I don't see that setting up. I just don't see it. And if it happens, I'll know. I'll know when it does, but it's not happening right now. So in the moment, when you're training, if you're an active trader, you have to go with the money when the money tells you where to go at. And so here we are, the stock closed here or the market closed here on Friday night at $349.46. Boom. Open in the morning today. Boom, $350.78. So we almost made a new high in the open, but we did it pretty quickly. So actually, let's just see when we did it. $351.46. $351.46. Oops. I just want to say exactly when we did this today. Oh, we actually did it immediately. Wow, look at that. So, you know, we ended up going long in here, got the run up, you could have got out in here. If you held it, got the second run up, even got a third run up into lunchtime period, which is beautiful. I said $353 was the number I was looking for. It not only got there, it went over it. It never got anywhere, anywhere near the stop, which we had, you know, down low. But I mean, just looking at this here, let's look how strong this market is. So Apple had a run up today, which lifted the cues. Okay, because this is such a big percentage of the cues. Other than that, I didn't really look up the reason the market was up today. I didn't care. I didn't care, but I wouldn't have done anything differently either way. But a lot of the reason, the other reasons that people think the market is actually going to fall and crash and people are bearish on the market is the fact that the fundamentals and the economics aren't matching up really without the markets rallying and making new highs every week. I get that. But the way that I make decisions is based on technical analysis. It's based on technical analysis and the gap. If you want to look at the fundamentals and make trading decisions, you're getting killed right now. In fact, you're getting killed all of last year. Where did this go? It got to 135, went over it slightly. So we're just pinning off here a little bit tonight, right off the highs where we rallied up. Beautiful, beautiful, beautiful bullsh move in the market here today. We'll see what we get tomorrow. We'll see what we get tomorrow. But nice day trading here. Good, solid move up, had a good entry, had a good price point, got the run up, got what I needed, got what we were looking for today. There was a very light day. This is going to be a very light week, but there are some things this week and next week that are going to be doable to trade as far as options are concerned. And I'm very picky with the day trades because of the fact that I want to make sure that we get the move in the day because you have to get in and out of the day trades on the day. The options you can hold. You can give them a little bit of a cushion in time. So we'll see what we get with the market this week. And again, great call here today by me. Play of the day was QQQ's long, bullish gap up, new highs in the market. Look at the technicals. And if you don't know how to do that, then you got to take my golden gap course. I teach you how to do that in the golden gap course. The next class is until the end of July. July. In fact, I'll tell you the dates. My assistant has it here on the website because I don't even know them off the top of my head. The next class, if you want to learn my system and method, is not until July 24th and 25th. So it's a month away. Email me at Melissa, thestockswish.com if you want to sign up. Cost of the class is $69.99. That's $7 grand for the two-day class. It's well worth it. And we had a good day. Have a great night, everyone.


Hey, this is Brett and this 2013 Cadillac ATS is stock number 22C10B. I am here at Summit Automotive in Fondlack, Wisconsin, your new and used car headquarters. This 2013 Cadillac ATS has the 3.6 liter V6 engine, puts out 321 horsepower. This vehicle has been fully-safetyed and inspected by our service shop, has a fresh oil and filter change, all the fluids have been checked and topped off, and this car is 100% ready to go. I'm going to go all the way around in this video, inside, start it up, take a look under the hood, take a look inside the trunk, and just give you a really good representation of this vehicle all the way around. Crystal red tint coat is the color, I shoot all my videos in 4K, so if you have HD capabilities, turn them on now, because it is your best way to check out the quality condition options and cleanliness of the car before seeing it in person. And as you go down this side of the vehicle, you can see just how nice that body is, the doors all look really good. And if you like the video, you can subscribe to my YouTube channel which is youtube.com slash summit auto. Comes with the painted alloy rims and it has Falcon ZX 22545R17 tires. They have a really good amount of tread left, I would say probably, actually looks like they have all the tread left, we put those on in our safety inspection. So brand new tires all the way around on this car. Front fender is in really nice shape, didn't see any major dents or dings on there. Front bumpers in pretty nice condition, didn't see any major cracks or anything. Has the front bumper parking sensors, the grille is in nice shape, and I did not see any dents or dings on the hood. Looks pretty good, passenger side front fender is in nice shape as well, and the passenger side front rim, no scuffs or scrapes on there. As you go down this side of this 2013 Cadillac ATS, take note of how clean the body is, how reflective and mirror-like that paint is. I take these HD videos so if you are far away or even if you're close by and you just cannot make the trip down but you're still interested in purchasing the car, you can see the car, hear the car, and have confidence in the vehicle that you're looking at. Before you even get here, so when you do get here, there's no surprises. You can make a smart and informed buying decision from wherever you're at. Know that you're not coming on something that's super rough, back rims in excellent shape, and if this video helps you make that buying decision, let your salesmen know that you saw the video that was helpful in that bright sunshine, you can still see the little wear knobs on the back tires too, brand new. Four-wheel disc brakes on this car, those brakes look pretty new as well. Coming around to the back, rear bumper is in nice shape. It does have the chrome-tipped dual rear exhaust. This is an ATS-4, so it is an all-wheel drive vehicle. You get the little trunk popper back here, which is nice to get into the trunk area. It's nice and clean, and you do get a little bit of storage right under there. I think those seats do fold down. The trunk shuts nicely. Coming around to the driver's side once again, back rim, no major scuffs or scrapes on there, and once again doors look really good. It has the power mirrors, built-in directional signals inside. The ATS-4 package gives you the gray leather interior. There are no rips or tears on these seats. They are in really nice shape. Both these front seats are heated. It comes with a nice set of weather-tech formats in the front here. Bose sound, good-looking wood-grain trim, power windows, power locks, power mirrors, and memory driver's seat. Take a quick look at the back seats. Back seats are in excellent shape. It does have the latched child safety system for any child car seats you may have. No rips or tears back here. You get weather-tech formats back here as well. And these seats do fold down.  Get that same trim on the back doors, and the bottoms of the doors all look really good on this car. We'll hop inside, check out the miles, the radio, and everything that this car has to offer on the interior. And then we'll start it up and take a look under the hood. You can see that this one has 89,341 miles. The instrument cluster is nice and clean. Information center right there comes with the heated leather-wrapped steering wheel. Audio controls on the right, and cruise controls, and Bluetooth controls on the left, as well as heated steering wheel controls. No major rips or tears on that steering wheel. This one comes with the Cadillac User Experience Radio. It has AM, FM, and Sirius XM radio capabilities. And it also has the factory navigation system. There's Highway 41, so that is working nicely. Down here are your climate controls, your heated seat buttons, your automatic transmission, stability track, keyless entry with remote start right there. Passenger side, floor mat, and seat are in excellent condition. Smells clean inside this car. The headliner is in nice shape. You get home-link buttons for your garage door security systems and lane systems, on-star and SOS buttons, and map lights up there. We'll start it up and take a look under the hood. Starts right up. No check engine lights or anything like that. There's your backup camera. You can see that is working nicely. And we'll get the hood open here. I would personally like to thank you for checking out the video today. And hopefully from this HD video, you've been able to verify the quality condition and options of this car all the way around inside. Now headlights are working nicely. And under the hood, you have the 3.6 liter V6 DVT engine. 321 horsepower. Engine bay is very clean, runs very smooth. Once again, this car has been fully safety and inspected by our service shop as a fresh oil and filter change. All the fluids have been checked and topped off. There is your emissions sticker. And this car is 100%. Ready to go. I'd highly recommend it from a quality and condition standpoint considering the age and miles on it. And to see more pictures of this car or one or other 550 new and used cars, trucks, SUVs, minivans, Wranglers, you name it. We got it. Go to that website right there, summitauto.com, full pictures and descriptions of every single vehicle from two locations all at summitauto.com. And if you'd like to check out more HD videos, you can go to youtube.com slash summitauto. Remember to like, subscribe, and share on this video and all the videos that you see there. There's all the notifications and good updates on the videos I do each and every day here at Summit Automotive. In fact, in a second you will see a link to subscribe to my YouTube channel on the upper left. Link to more Cadillac ATS cars like this one in the upper right, a link to this vehicle on our website in the lower left, and a link to one of our latest YouTube videos in the lower right. Click those, check us out, and we're super excited to help you with this Ultra Clean 2013 Cadillac ATS 4 in crystal red tin coat. Thanks again for checking out the video. Remember to like, subscribe, and share on the YouTube channel. I really appreciate it. Thanks again.