a few people have joined us already, that's good. Okay, recording has started. All right, thank you. Welcome everyone. This is the weekly TSE call. It's open to everyone. Welcome to participate and contribute. There are two conditions to fulfill though. First one is to live by the antitrust policy. The notice of which is currently displayed on your screen if you're logging in through Zoom app. The other piece is the cutoff conduct which basically requires you to behave like a decent human being. I was kind of left saying this because to me that's what it comes down to. Of course it's kind of a shortcut but an experience shows these things are necessary. So with this being done, we have a couple of announcements to get started. And we do have pretty full agenda as a matter of fact. So let's keep cranking. Okay, I'll make the first announcement really short. That's okay, just take your time doing it. Click the my profile link and make sure that you can log in and see your stuff in your LFID. And this is the future of where you'll manage your LFID. So more features are coming there soon. And just please give it a whirl. And if you run into anything, let me know. Thank you. And so I have a question, Ryan. In terms of functionality, what does that really do? Is that just a UI and makes it easier to update your profile or does that have any impact on any of the systems we use? Some day it will. So for instance, you can see that I have GitHub, LinkedIn and Gmail accounts connected. You can set your forwarding address if you have a Linux.com email, stuff like that. So you can also see your previous attendance and events. That may or may not matter, but yes, in the future, this will be a more fully flushed out UI where you'll be able to do stuff like edit your information. Okay, so that's important to kind of motivate people to update their profile because that might help with some of the issues we have been having with maybe the DCO eventually, but also the election process, right? That's why I put it first, exactly. Anyway. Yeah, but you need to explain it to people. Don't assume it's obvious. Thank you, Ryan. Any questions or comments on this? Okay, here we are. Is this similar to the members thing that Mara sent out or is that just for member summit? That's distinct. Thank you. All right, and then there is a TSC election announcement. Who's going to talk to this? That is mine. Okay. So if you go to the TSC election page, that's linked, well actually here, yeah. So we'll do the TSC election announcement. So the collection of who is eligible to vote will begin this coming Sunday. And I'm going to be running the script that gathers eligible voters on a daily basis so that if people go to the page to test to see if they're eligible or not, and it shows up they're not eligible. If you have any questions, email the election at list on hyperlegio.org email. Otherwise, if it's because you haven't made any contributions and you want to, then you have until August 30th to get something in. There's plenty of bugs, plenty of documentation that needs to be written, that kind of stuff. And then the last item here is that the election at list.hyperlegio.org is meant for dealing with issues with eligibility or any questions or access or anything like that. And I'm looking for anybody who cares about our election process and wants to help out. I'm looking for volunteers. So go ahead and email the elections mailing list saying you'd like to volunteer and I can add you. That mailing list is going to be kept private amongst the volunteers because we want to be able to deal with people's personal information. Here's my email address, whatever, can you add me, that kind of stuff. So I'm just telling everybody up front that it's not going to be open to everybody. To see the messages sent, but anybody can volunteer for the list to help out. So that's the end of the announcement. And then we have an item for discussion on the election plan. All right, thanks, Dave. Okay, so. Question on the actual list. So you're not doing sort of email matching and could you maybe explain a little bit about what you're doing for that? Like I have one's eligible and one isn't. Yeah, so we're running through, so we have the scripts that we've used in the past which goes through all of our repos to gather all the email addresses. There are a few cases where we find multiple email addresses and I plan to be emailing out, there's only like 50 or so of those where there's multiple email addresses we get for somebody. My plan is to email out like today or tomorrow to each of those three and ask people or each of those, you know, multiple email addresses to ask them which one they want to use. And I will then mail merge them. Like basically I'll update our database so that the one you choose is the one that you will use. And that will be what you get all of the elections communications on. That's what will be in the check tool and that's what you'll use when you, well I don't remember exactly the condorcent login but I think you use an email. So yeah, that'll become your identity for voting. And Chris, for you specifically and most likely in the past I combined your multiple email addresses into one, specifically your Gmail one. And so that's why your other one or other ones are not showing up. Okay. Yeah, I haven't fixed the check tool yet. So like if you punch any of those in it's not gonna come up because the string value in the check tool has like pipes in it. Lots of email addresses for you, Chris. So I'm gonna be fixing that today. That's a time. Well, no, one of them came up fine. The other one didn't. Chris is fine. Okay. Folks who have multiple. Yeah, okay. Yeah. I just have to pay attention to the bunch which is what it was spam. Well, we're gonna talk about the plan later. I will, I plan to be sending out email communication to everybody who is eligible to all their eligible emails. So whichever one you receive an email about the election on that's the one to use. Chris, if you prefer a different one let me know I can make the update. Oh, okay. Thank you. Or you can email electionsatlist.hyperlogia.org. That's what we did in our queue. All right, with that being said, as Dave said, I mean, there's an agenda item specific to discussing the plan, reviewing it and agreeing to it. So let's move on to the quarterly reports for now. We got three of them actually, yeah. So Indy, Transact and the working group, technical working group, China also send a report and they actually had some interesting item to bring up. So I thought we could also discuss that later in the agenda. Is there anything other than that that anybody wants to bring up that I didn't put on the agenda? Because so I don't remember there's, as far as I remember there's nothing about Indy that was sticking out. I noticed that not everybody has reviewed the reports yet but I assume this will be done shortly. Regarding Transact, Gary brought up the point that maybe they should be folded within SoTooth if there's no other project using it. And so I actually, you know, at Daniel had a reaction to this and I thought, okay, instead of discussing it now, I'd rather bring that up as an agenda item. So it's part of discussion items for later. And the China group had specifically an issue with regard to dealing with the cryptography standards which I believe has been recurrent but also thought, okay, maybe you can discuss this on the agenda. So I don't know if there's anybody who wants to ask anything specific to this or wants to discuss any of these reports. This is the time to speak up. Do you want to create an issue that talk about this one or because, I mean, we've talked about this actually at length, right? Back when we were looking at, you know, like sub-projects and that, you know, sort of concept to sort through the, what if there's a project, you know, under hyper, not labs, but under hyper ledger that is applicable to a single other project. Now, Deno raises the case, well, what about this thing that's, you know, sort of Ethereum specific, but that's not basis specific, that's Ethereum specific. So I don't think that's a sub-project per se. But I mean, we did sort of rule, right? That, you know, where there's really only one consumer that they should work with the maintainers of the, if you will, the parent project.  So on that basis, we created- For transact, no, I- And the question is, how do we manage this? So let's not get too deep into this now. I want to just go over the quarterly reports for now, and we can go back to this- Well, that's why I asked, are you making a discussion topic about this? If that's the case- Yes, in the discussion section of the agenda, there is a point on that. But back to the technical working group, China report, is David on? Yes, I'm here. Okay. I thought you wanted to highlight a few things you said. So this is your chance. Yes, actually, beside of the kind of quarterly reports, I dropped a little bit of several spies in our comments. Oh, could you let me have a chance to share my screen or go through the report first? Maybe I could better go through the report first. Okay. Yes. Okay, there we go. Can you not share? I don't see any of it. Yeah, I can. It's coming, it's coming. Yeah, no, I see it. Because I'm walking in Hong Kong, maybe some distance from your- Yeah, yeah, it's okay. It's on now. Okay, now it's good. Carry on. Telecoms. This here. Okay, this is why I have to try not to grab the information of what is China's crypto standards or a hundred standard or hybrid fabrics. First, maybe I full screen inspector. Yeah, full screen inspector. The background is that it has been a long time ago issues that you can see the number is under 10,000. If maybe five, four, nine, six, at this moment of time, I'm not the committee board, one of the WGCD, he's Bao Hua raised it up. But 2020, this year it is marked out, this issue is marked as stale. But why I raise it up again and reopen it as a two-dose status, because as you can see here, the financial situation led to technology security specification. This is the code of this kind of specification. It is newly raised by China's People Bank, which is why it is American federatics. Maybe it's Jay Gorky, he's from Mali and Chuzhism, that in English, I'm sure. So no matter how it's the central bank, something like a similar to it. It is not a business bank, it is governance banks. This kind of security specification is purely on the Chinese, it is still released and applied on these states. And this is quite kind of shocking because before these times that we just simply discuss whether it's good to have one. But after that purely standards comes out, we have to have a reference, we have to follow. Although it is T for the recommends. So it is still a recommend standard, but it will be applied to JR means in Chinese words means finance. So this is a recommend standard for all the adoption of DRT technology in finance. The voice coming from the central bank. So there's will be a rumors and gossip once after that. So some of the competitors of hyper edges, something like this OS super chains and all the other consumerity will blame whether okay, whether it's not native support in that specification. We have already done a reveal. Well, maybe I can see it later. Yes, we've already done a complex analyze reveal for this kind of towards fabrics or specification. This is still working in progress and this percentage which under under progress. And another, then the last point we have saved in the background is even before the specification comes out, there's already a lot of childs to migrate fabrics to maybe as a compatible to a GM crypto, crypto library. We have gathered a statistic to at least five fork where we are some of them are only maintained and some of them are not, but at least five, I don't know, above sevens are collected in our statistics. And people, and once after the specification is released, people, we are fabric communities in our, and China has been frequently asked where is the China's crypto fork of fabric which is standard one, which is the recommended one, which I have for paper to fast have an iteration of based on. So after that, we are more frequently being asked. So this is our response. The first child is that we have actually quite a large, large table, you can, you can visit the link here. This is, so maybe I can have first, maybe you could have right there. No, we don't have time to get into the detail. So, okay, yeah, sure. It's quite large. This is our analysis towards, and the next, so because we have already found a lot of conflicts in that talk on the analysis. So we reorganize a cooperation path with names of the fabric. The origin of names of the fabric is open governance GMs. So this is a wiki and we already collect the potential collaborator about five, 15, five maintenance. We raise as an initial maintenance. Okay. And what we structure in current status is we will already write three streams as a crypto library. So we may wonder why there will be three streams instead of just one library satisfies all the standards. It seems the same thing, something like you may have open SSL and also borrowing SSL. So that's simply that they are implementation in different way and from an issue from the different parties. So some of the, oh, what happened, what happened? Okay, maybe my mouse has some problems. Sorry. And she's an institution, Peckin University is an institution. This is a company, this is a company. And the black ones, this is the most commonly used because it is also alongside provider of fabric fog. But this kind of fog is quite frequently used. The last company time is still at two years ago, more than. So we also have a fog of fabrics under the TWGC org. Yes, we only will maintain a release port at the latest LTS and master branch and potentially we may have another GM product in maybe. So it is placed to store the information of BCCSP GM, GM style of GRCPC and new X5509 interface for all the three stream. So when it is done, the fabrics also exposed to only had an interactive with this plug-in instead of all the streets on one. So this is the one, maybe we will have a pre-built goal length conditional bills when they are wrangled in inside the goal length. So the following is our currently drafted designs. First on fabric itself parts we are proposing whether we could have the change. The first point is that we're trying to migrate from the hard-coded crypto part at least includes a shark 256 to hash the hash in the base and crypto X500, which is which we are going to the goal native package source code. So we found it is all done by the switch. It could be whether it is easy to SA or ISA or identity because they are all structuring in the switch and cases. So it will be hard to plug into another crypto library beside of his already defined ones. So we will also class someone of the, we also have some steps like to collect all the functions related to X500 and I used in fabrics and making to get all the methods together and functions together to make it as an interface. This here, we will maybe this part of interface maybe put into the fabric or the GM plug in. And another more harder part is the crypto config outside the PCCSP. We have already found at least two parts. Two parts. The first is the crypto config session in each MSP definition and the hash and error goals value in the global or ISA is a global scope of the channel. Okay. And we also definitely we also have the three streams of the crypto libraries. That's the three times here. So we also make some works on pay to apply on here. It would be some of the CI alignment, so fabric spills, a goal version alignment, OS image, Azure pipeline, a behavior test to have a better, yes, the third part is the GM plug in. But before that we go, actually it's not the before we go, we along with that, while we're going on this part, we have some wondering questions still stuck in on, or maybe the blocking on the middle is that some of the design concepts which are not fully implements or documents in fabric itself. For example, for some way for the asset parking, okay. No, but I think this is good. I mean, I think people understand what this is about. And, you know, I feel like some of these questions are two rule levels, fabric specific, you're not going to get much answers on this call, although of course we have people like Gary, probably can answer some of them. But I'm more interested in, you know, stepping back a little bit and I would like to know, I mean, is that a fabric specific problem? How does Ursa deal with this? Is Ursa a solution or what? Any reactions from anybody? Actually what I see, because we also have discussed the, what, how should we consider or place Ursa as a role because in hybrid there's also one efforts making to us as a basic crypto library, is it? So yes, it's true. So we also have some internal discussion. So you may see, actually these three streams are the GM crypto library. They are what I see them as a parallel or equivalent to Ursa. It itself is self-contained and work quite well. So I'm not sure whether these three streams can all put in into the Ursa-Ussar source. But actually it work as the same. They provide the BCCSP, they can provide all the spectrum of the, both the asymmetric or asymmetric encrypts and also the alternative of TRS ways. And also the definitions, sometimes some of them, also it includes the definition of the certificates in the base. But all the, maybe Jay, go ahead. Yeah, just Arnold, this is Jay. I just like to provide a little bit of background. So basically it's all these software, all these software not only blockchain, all these software are sold in China. If they're dealing with some core functionality or relate to national security, like core banking or some financial institution, then it need to conform with China regulations like this one. It need to establish the, for example, security connection using the China cryptographic regulation. So it's not really only about blockchain and it's certainly not only about hyperledger fabric. And, but it's not applied to all these software. For example, if they're dealing with commercial application or just some not like core functionality that's related to national security, then that's fine. We can just use like RSA or whatever crypto algorithm that's internationally popular. But since blockchain sometimes or a lot of times we're dealing with banking, this is why this is probably particularly important for us to support the China cryptographic algorithms, if that makes sense. That's interesting because it depends on the field of application. Exactly, exactly. And as David mentioned before, the newly published regulation we are currently reviewing within China Working Group. This is recommended specification but it's kind of got attention among all the banks and financial institutions here. And we are not very certain whether this will become the de facto standards within the industry, but we just wanna be precautious and to see how much we are, like how much conflict we currently have against this specification and what actions we could take. And for one, this incorporating China cryptographic algorithms could be one of the action. Actually, this is the biggest, I'd say biggest barrier in terms of complying with this spec. And some others like we need to have account system or whatever that could be all solved in my opinion at the application level. All right, thank you. Anyone else, any comments or reactions? Yeah, hey Arno, this is Dave Huseby. Sorry, I dropped off there for the last minute so stop me if I'm being redundant. Originally, URSA was going to be the way we got abstractions for allowing national crypto standards into the hyperledger projects but fabric maintainers decided not to go with URSA some time ago. So that's fine. If we want to support anything like this in fabric, it obviously needs to be modular. My only ask is that compiling fabric with any specific national crypto standard, whether it's Chinese or NIST or Russian crypto standard, that it takes extra work so that you cannot compile fabric by default with those standards enabled. That's my only ask. Just from a security standpoint, other than that, I think it's just gonna require a lot of communication coordination between the fabric maintainers and the developers who want to add these national crypto standards to fabric. I personally have no problem with it. All right, thank you. Anyone else? Yeah, this is Angelo. So I'm the designer of the BCCSP module in fabric. So I have a comment. I guess, especially for the banking system, to the best of my knowledge, most of the time you are using HSMs. So fabric can already interface HSMs and then it doesn't matter which are the algorithms so that the HSMs are actually running. Is this one or do we have also specifications for the HSM or do you use a different API for the HSMs? Yes, they did have because most of the interface for the HSM is mostly we are using is PKCS 11s. Yes, yes, that's definitely. But most of the security hardware in mainland China is not designed this way. They have two standards, namely their SKF and SDF. So rarely after HSM hardware have any idea of what is this kind of interface. So just to make sure that I understood that there's no HSM hardware, there's no Chinese HSM hardware that speaks PKCS 11. Also again, it's the China's regulation. It's fine, another interface named SKF for the PCI card and other side. You are forbidden to use PKCS 11. Okay, got it. Okay. Yes. Gentlemen, maybe you go first. Yeah, I think we have our call now. Sorry, it's falling over. Are you close to finish? I'm sorry. I think there's a mess up. We would still have a problem. Our calls are in there. But anyway, I think the way to pursue, I mean, the cryptographic algorithms or whatever we can deal with. I think the two bigger problems with this are, right, working on the GRPC side because essentially GRPC fundamentally limits you to TLS12 and TLS13 approved algorithms of which there are no versions of those that actually include, you know, SM14, I haven't looked at the latest spec of the China stuff. So I'm not sure what algorithms they're actually talking about in there. But basically, those aren't gonna be approved. Cryptographic Cypher is under TLS12 or 13. So you have to override that, right?  I would probably just not create a custom VCCSP and because I think we're avoiding through my stuff, we can add additional algorithms to the existing software one. The hardware one on PKCS 11, even if they did support PKCS 11, we still actually call specific operations on the HSM that are literally calling out ECDSA. So you'd have to change that. We could also discuss another interface if we want to look at how we call it. Sorry guys, this is the, I think you ran out in the end. Now it's a different call, so we need to start. Okay, so, Rai, do you know what this is about? Just half an hour. This seems to be a messed up on the loop. You guys needs to wait. Yeah, we have been using this backup slot for the last six months and yeah, we have been using it for five years. You've got the wrong link. Yeah, that's really strange. We've been always using this call and there was never a clash. Harsha, when we moved from Tuesday to Thursday, did you clarify that these, because the hyperlager has, I think, only two links and they share them between the different calls. So you need to verify. Okay, I need you guys to sort this out elsewhere. Okay, sorry, Gerym. This is for 30 minutes more. Yeah, this call goes for another 30 minutes. Thanks guys. 25, 26. Yeah, talk to me or Rai. We can help you guys find a slot and a time and a call. Yeah, sure, Rai. Sorry for the problem. Yeah, bye. It's okay. All right, so I would like to actually close on this now because a lot of this seems to be very fabric-specific. I think I saw on the comment that on the page that Brian suggested and RFC, I would agree with this. If it's just to solve fabric's problem, then I think you're better off having the kind of discussion to address the points that Gery was on, which clearly highlights that it's not an easy thing to tackle. There are many different ways you could go at it. And this would be best discussed with the fabric maintainers. So you can have a RFC, you can have put an agenda on the maintainers or contributors call, one of those, so that you can follow up on the discussion with the maintainers. I was interested in the discussion at a bit of higher level. I'm not sure I got that much, but is ERSA solving this problem already? How do other projects deal with it? So I think ERSA solves this problem in theory, but there's a lot of issues calling rust code from Go, which is one of the biggest limiting factors at this point with fabric. Obviously, ERSA is mostly written in rust. Yeah, but again, I think people need to, I mean, I'll just say that I think Arno, you're right, we should do it in here. I mean, the bigger point in here is right, there can be items, people that have had forks, nobody's ever really submitted any code for our review. No one's ever come back and actually like asked. I mean, they've asked questions, right? On the ERSA thing, right, but cryptographic algorithms and then actually how cryptographic algorithms are exploited are two different things. So, you know, like if anyone who wanna tackle things piecemeal, we can, happy to help. It's interesting, I think on this spec, I'd be interested in seeing that things can really change. I've heard the same thing about Russian ghost algorithms for years and I have shipped commercial products in that country for banking that have never actually implemented ghost. I actually went to Russia and said I'd implement ghost if you gave me an HSM that did it and they were like, okay, and they never did. So, you know, I don't have a problem doing it. I think the bigger breakdown is, you know, finding a better way to, you know, collaborate. I think there's also people who want it so it's good that they wanna bring these algorithms there. That's fine by me. We can figure out, you know, how to do it and have a discussion of it. And then, you know, as with everything, anything that goes into the tree really comes down to who's going to maintain stuff going forward. That was kind of the notion of the plug and stuff. Unfortunately that failed because it's not supported well by go. We have other options, but, you know, the main thing where we're critical on stuff is people can't just abandon code, right?  All right, so with this being said, I'm going to move on. Thank you. Thank you, David, for bringing this up. Hopefully you get some sense of what you need to do next. Otherwise, feel free to ping me and I can give you the direction. But I think with, for instance, you can also help out bridge the gap if there is any. So with that being said, let's move on with the agenda. I had a point or no regarding the reports. Both Transac and Indy mentioned that they were down fairly low with contributors compared to where they were. And I'm wondering if this is a seasonal trend or if it's something that the TSC needs to start looking at across all the projects to see if contributor numbers are down. Transac said they were like at three. And so it would seem that they've, you know, sort of fallen below a level at which we would grant them project status if they were looking to form a new project. Indy's down because of Ares and things like that. So. Yeah, it sounded like in this case, there was more specific to their community where people are focusing on other things right now. And with the split in different projects, it's kind of split the resources across the projects. So there are fewer on each project. And tell me if I'm wrong, but that was my point. It's interesting in the insights page, you there is a sort of like a top level summarization of all hyper ledger. Unfortunately, you can't drill down to understand time periods and stuff. You can, but perhaps we can save that for another call. Oh, I was just, yeah, okay. If you can, that'd be nice. All right, but so point taken Mark, we can have another look at that. Let's move on to the election because we have to make a decision today so that we can stay on par with the plan. So as we discussed earlier, the TSC election is to get started, at least the process, right? Which, you know, there are several steps into this process. So I put this as decision. According to a decision we made last year, we have to have a plan presented by the staff and needs to be approved by the TSC at least a month before the actual election. So we need to do that now to stay in sync. And so can you click on that link, Rai? Please TSC election. So that's the plan that David was talking about earlier. So Dave, you want to say more about this? Yeah, I mean, we've gone back and forth since I first presented this a few weeks ago. You can see all the questions and updates at the bottom. The most notable change recently is that I've just added a section called communications about when emails will be sent to eligible voters. The timeline is pretty well set above that. And I plan on sending emails out to all eligible voters when nominations are open, when the nominations are about to close, when voting is open and then when we have results. So that's really all we need to discuss today because I think the rest of it has been sort of tacitly approved through communications unless there are any other questions. So. So that's what I'm hoping for, that this becomes just an administrative step. As I said, we have a decision we made to approve this. So it's been presented. Some of us have commented, have invited everybody to look at this page and comment as necessary. There were some questions raised and answered. So is there anything else or can we move to approve this now? So I guess the last thing is the elections at list.hyperlegio.org, right? That was also set up just recently to handle all of the communications. But I explained that earlier. Tracy, sorry. Yeah, no worries, Dave. So a question is the deadline for submissions of nominations? Is that September 30th, 31st, whatever the end of September is? Or, because it doesn't have like a timeline for when the nominations have to be submitted. That's a very good catch. Yeah, I intended that the formal announcement of the slated candidates would close the nominations but I should probably call that out here on the list. Good catch. I'll add it. Can we just fix that now? Yeah, for sure. Yep, I'm doing it right now. So we're gonna have a month of the, we're gonna have a month of that. I'll end it like a couple of days before. So whatever. Yeah, or like, yeah, 30th of September. Yeah, a month of that. Because this year, if there are third party nominations, we need to confirm with the person who's being nominated. I ask if you wanna nominate somebody else that you first ask them, that's polite. But yeah, we're not going to allow third party nominations without confirmation. So I'm giving us plenty of time to deal with that. You know, to ask if they actually do wanna be nominated. Okay, good catch Tracy. Anything else, anyone else can spot? The period where the voting is open falls within one calendar week. Is there a way to spread that across two calendar weeks? So if someone's on vacation that week, they may not see it in their work email and miss the chance to vote. Of course, if they're on vacation for two weeks, it wouldn't matter if it was spread over, but. Hey everybody, should go by that. Is that okay? Sorry, I was gonna say, is that a real concern? That was something that was raised last year, but then again, a lot of people aren't on vacation in October where they are in August, so. That's right. I mean, we did move to October to deal with this issue. We also are presenting the timeline now. And I'm going to be talking about it in every TSC call from now until we have results and the new TSC, assuming they're all, so I don't know, right? Maybe between 30th of August and the 1st of October, that's a bit long just to call for nominations on the other hand. So maybe we can split a bit of that time, take one week off of that and put it in the voting period. Yep, we can totally do that. That would mean that we could end nominations on the 26th of September, and then voting from 27th of September to 10 October. That would give us two full, let's see here. Yeah, two full weeks, 14 calendar days. Yeah, I mean, to me. Is that what we all want to do? It doesn't have to be a trade-off. All right, I was gonna say, it doesn't have to be a two full weeks. It would just span two calendar, but whatever. Yeah, I'll just do that. My internet's kind of going up and down right now. So I'll make the edits as soon as I get on stable internet. Thank you. All right, noted. Anything else? I just want to go back to Rai's question, given your new timeline of the 26th. I think if I understood Rai correctly, the comment was making sure that there was enough time between closing of getting the emails, processing those emails so that you could actually start the vote. So you may want to consider like the deadline for nominations to be the 19th, and then the vote to be the 26th through the 10th, or whatever those dates were that you gave. Just to make sure that you have enough time to do, what I think Rai was suggesting is the processing of those nominations and making sure you got the right list. Yeah, that seems wise. I like that. So that still gives us three weeks. No, it gives us two full weeks of nominations, one week of getting our stuff together, and then two full calendar weeks of voting. I think that's a wise timeline. Yeah, thanks for that feedback, Rai and Tracy. Anything else? Can somebody edit the page so that we get the, because I would like us to vote on this now, so. Yeah, let me try to do that. My internet. What do you want me to type in where? So on the timeline, yep, on the timeline, third item down, or actually second item down, go from 30th August, to 19th September. And that should be just like, publish the email template for submitting nominations and open for comment, or just add an item below it saying 19th September, nominations closed. And then we'll formally announce the slay the candidates on the 26th, and then change the date for, open the TSC election voting via condorses. That'll be 26th September to 10 October. That's all we need. Yeah, but Rai, you need to move back. The first 19th of September, that was August. Should be the 30th of August. Yeah. This one? Yeah, yeah. Otherwise, there's no time in between. That doesn't work. So 31st? Yeah. It was the 30th, but yeah, that's fine. That's fine. And I think it's important to also be a little bit more specific on when things close. Is it end of business? Who's business? What time zone? Midnight, you know, GMT. I think you need to be specific. I delegate to the TSC. I will update this page as is. And I ask someone to edit this to the way they want it. I think we should do Midnight Pacific. Dude, the world revolves around the East Coast, man. Yeah, dude. Gee. No, this is actually to deal with the fact that there are people who are not done with the day. And I think it makes sense to. Yeah, I think Pacific is probably right, unless you want to do Guam. Well, considering Dave is the one that's going to be doing all the work, and there is no need for him to stay up until midnight, Pacific to do a thing. I wouldn't mind if this was centered around business day Pacific, but that's kind of up to Dave to say. Yeah, I mean, I don't really care. I have meetings with people in Russia at 3 a.m. It's not a big deal. If we were to do GMT in the end of the day. It's not exactly. You don't have to do anything. It's just that when it closes and you don't accept more stuff like this. So it's like, OK. Dave, did you mix Russians and election in the same conversation? What? I was wondering if anybody caught that. All right. If it was around GMT, that's totally fine, too, because midnight GMT is sometime in the middle of my day. So whatever, it doesn't matter. Really, truly doesn't matter to me. Just I'll do whatever you guys want me to do. Midnight Pacific, done. So I attempted to update that September 19th in the day Pacific. Was there another place we needed to add that, Chris, or did I catch what you wanted? I think it would be the 10th of October. So the close of the TSC election. Good point. That is something where you have to actually log in and click a button to end the election. So it is OK. Yeah. Yep. Yeah, so I'm happy with end of day Pacific. Yeah, me too, so I don't care. All right. Are we done? Roy, could you refresh? I think I just updated that. Thank you, Tracy, for helping out. Some interwebs. OK, so formatting. So that's good. Let's get moving already now. I am suggesting we approve this plan. Second. Yeah, thank you. Do we need to have a roll call there? Let's just do a roll call, man. Let's do one. We haven't done one in a while. I approve. Well, Angelo? I approve. Ardo? Yes. Chris? Yo. Gary? Yes. Mark? Yes. Mark? Yes. Nathan? Yes. Swetha? Yes. Tracy? Yes. And I don't think Troy is here either. There you go. All right. The yeses, yoes, and whatever's have it. OK, so thank you for doing this. It's amazing how this election stuff always takes a lot of time. So back to the agenda. In the few minutes left, I don't think we can really do much. But maybe we can still start a little bit this discussion or continue it, because we started a little bit earlier. And so it was brought up again in the context of the Transact Report, where Gary Ponerna was like, well, Transact was supposed to be working with different projects, but it doesn't. So does it make sense to fold it back into sawtooth, where it's the only project that really uses it? So it brings the general question about how do we deal with this? We already, as Chris pointed out, we already decided that when we have new project proposals and when they come in, we look at them and we say, oh, this is like an add-on to this existing project, it should really go into that project rather than exist as a separate project. The problem here is a bit different is that a project comes in with a broader agenda to work with multiple frameworks. And then in the end, some months later, whenever, some period of time, it just doesn't happen. And the question is, well, what should we do in that situation? Should we say, hey, if it had come as a proposal, this is just an extension to sawtooth, in this case, for instance, Transact? We would have said, yeah, go do that as part of Transact, as part of sawtooth. That's great. And so we revise those projects and say, well, after a certain period of time, if things don't pan out the way the original contributor or service proposals had anticipated, maybe it's time to adjust the policy of management of the projects to do a bit of cleaning up and say, maybe we need to fold this into this other project. So that's kind of, you know. And ideally, we would have a policy to deal with this, like we have for many other things. And my point on this is, well, maybe it's not possible to have a general policy, although maybe there is. We could set the deadline and say, after so much time, if it's only related to one project, it doesn't matter whether the intent was broader than that or not, we fold it. If we can have a general policy, how do we deal with this on a case-by-case basis? So that's kind of the premise. And we probably won't have time to get over this today, but we can start it. And I'm happy to discuss this further on next call. Yeah. And I guess, you know, when I wrote this as a quick thing, and again, it wasn't any malfeasance or anything, I'm like, malintent or anything like that. And it just so happened that I happened to be working with a, when I read that thing, I was looking at STD-Raft, just because we use STD-Raft.  Turns out STD-Raft is a Go library that people use. Hyperledger Fabric uses it, Docker uses it, Coomnit, like other Cockroach DB uses it. So it turns out that it's a component initially developed for STD, but shared into other projects. So that kind of got me thinking, well, I'm like, well, there's kind of a parent for this one. You know, it's awesome. Even though the fact that it might want to be used somewhere else, it's really kind of just a library or a component with a key tie. Would it make sense to be in that structure rather than to put this under, you know, a top level kind of project, you know, review structure? So that's kind of just where my head was at, just in case I knew something that I'm not nice, but that's kind of just where, what I was looking at when I was thinking that. All right, thanks for that. And Dano, I'd like to point out to you because you responded to Gary's message on the comment. And I have to admit, I'm not sure exactly what you were saying. So if you could further explain, at least for my benefit, I would appreciate it. So there are multiple clients that implement Ethereum, not just Basu, there's Gath, Nethermine, Open Ethereum. And there's some projects out there that work with all four of the clients, including Basu. One in labs, the message mesh that's, what, I forgot the name of it, but it's the one that Yaz is running. If that were to come into as a main project with the preference of the TSEB, that it be a standalone project, even though the only DLT under Hyperledger it works with is Basu, or it should be part of Basu, even though it works with more than just Basu. So stuff like that kind of thing. It might be used by somebody else outside of Hyperledger. Right. That's your point. I thought that's what it is. Okay. Yeah, so in this case, for instance, go back to the transact example. If it turns out that some of the projects can be pointed to and say, hey, but they use transact, they don't use SOTUV. So that just defies keeping transact as a separate project. That's what you're saying, right? I mean, that's totally a reasonable point. I think if there is a case like this, I mean, a policy, whether we have a general policy or on a case-by-case basis, this could be taken into account for sure. So, or at least a recommendation, which direction to start? So a question would be if we move, just for sake of example, we move transact back under SOTUV. And SOTUV decides they don't care about transact anymore. Can they, you know, can they kill it off as it's just under them? Or, you know, how does that happen? You know, if something becomes a sub-project of another project, can it just get killed off? You know, there's a lot of longer-term questions that we have much less in a minute to resolve. One thing I might just propose is that the TSC responds back to transact and suggests, you know, is there a time where, you know, there's a next-dotto release of transact being, you know, the starting place, places of being planned where there could be some outreach to the other frameworks to see, you know, is this a useful time to revisit the original goal of transact, right? It's just like a way of focusing back and asking and engaging the transact maintainers on how might we get back to some of that original vision? All right, so we're out of time, unfortunately, but I'm happy to continue this discussion. I do think there's something important here for us to do, and it really falls into, you know, the scope of the things that TSC needs to worry about is the management of the overall projects, right? And so I think if we can come up with some rules, that would be good. And so not necessarily just, you know, pretending to transact, although that could be an example we can use for sure. All right, with that being said, let's keep it at this. So everybody gets the time they deserve. We are moving on. So thank you all for calling today. We'll join you again next week or the following.


We're still here on the touchline on Y-2-5-4 where we are still discussing matters of football and now we jump gears and talk about everything that is happening in the Africa Cup of Nations. Remember, the showpiece will be kicking off in Egypt next Friday, that is the 19th of July, all the way to the 21st of June to July. Sorry for that confusion there on the Africa Cup of Nations. I'm happy because KBC Channel 1 will be the only free-to-air broadcaster of the Africa Cup of Nations. So if you want all the 52 matches, KBC Channel 1 is where you'll be finding those matches and then Y-2-5-4 will be giving you all the highlights and all the matches in repeat as they happen. So if you watch the live match on KBC Channel 1, be sure the repeat of that match will be on Y-2-5-4 and all the highlights of the 52 matches of the Africa Cup of Nations Now we are going to talk about the Africa Cup of Nations and Kenya for the very first time in 15 years since 2004 is in the Africa Cup of Nations. Joining us here to talk about this conversation right now is Ronald Okot is the founder and CEO of Ronald Okot Sports Management. He is here to talk to us about the Afqon and our preparedness to play in this showpiece. Zaxo Guda is still here with us and is with this book away from victory and we are done with the book itself but we are still talking about the Africa Cup of Nations and those are some of the moments he has captured in this book and we have got Nairobi City Stars player also currently Idi Shikanda here with us to talk about the Africa Cup of Nations. Let's go ahead and talk about our preparedness for the match. Ronald we are playing DR Congo this evening at 7pm in Madrid. We played Madagascar 1-1-0 nice against DR Congo a team that is in the Africa Cup of Nations. Do you think we are ready for this showpiece the way we are going? Well I think Zaxo said that we are not ready but to me I think the team is more than ready because I watched the game against the game against Madagascar and I think the boys really played well. Even though to me probably we survived the scare because Madagascar they lost a penalty but to me it's been some good preparations that the Federation has accorded the boys and going into this match against that we are going to play tonight. I think to me we stand a better chance of maybe trying to now try to rub our shoulders with the big boys in the next maybe week or so. So this would be another big test for the boys and for the coach to know his first level. What about you Zaxo? We have been camping in France 18 days that we are supposed to be in France to prepare for this game. These are our second friendly tonight. How do you think it will pan out? First of all I don't think the friendly will be shown live for those guys who asked where they might want to watch the friendly. It won't be live because you see at this young child the coach wants to hide their game. And as Ronald said, Minye has already known what theme he will play against Algeria. Right now what he is trying to do is to get players who can give him the edge should plan a fail. So basically the game against the Archongos but the result is about having players who can be ready physically and mentally for the Algeria game. Main injury is in our squad ED. We've got Brian Mandela leaving through injury. Christine Bambazoldo left through injury and two players were dropped and that is Anthony Akumu and Clifton Mihezo. The remaining 23 players must go in defense. Are we good enough? Yeah I think we are good. Look at Filiu Manotena. He has been outstanding in the league matches. That is for Gorma Yassid. Look at Joshua Onyango. He has been outstanding even in the qualifiers. So look at Musa Muamed, Abu Dumaar. I think these are the guys who have been featured in all the qualifiers to the Afghans. So the back line is for Coach Sebastian Minye to just decide who will start and who will back up the others. Do you think it's a big loss not having Brian Mandela in that team? Yeah of course it's a big loss for a coach like Sebastian Minye timing that he had prepared his mind to fill Brian Mandela in his first 11. Timing that for the Madagascar friendly we are not supposed to be told that this is the starting line but we are just from the look of the things that you are there to see Brian Mandela was going to start the match him to partnership with Musa Muamed. So I think it's a difficult situation for Sebastian Minye to pick whoever will replace Brian Mandela in the back line. What's a big one for us there. Which player do you think deserved to be in this team but was not included in the team? You can't say a player deserves to be in the team that's something that the coach decides. You see as fans you will always have players to be in the team but if Minye fails the players he has in the team will do what he wants to do. You see what people understand is club football and national team football is a totally different ball game. If a coach feels like this guy won't get into my system then there's no reason why you people should shout that Jesse Were for example because I want to touch on the Jesse Were a bit. During the trainings that we visit every time we go Minye will say is one guy who he knows the attacking front they're not that well in the attacking front. So we need players attacking front who can help track back but for Jesse Were is one guy who will just wait for those supplies and bang balls.  But because Jesse Were doesn't track back and someone like Masoodu will do a bit of this tidy work that's why he normally picked Mutamba in the previous games because of the work rate. So I won't say anyone deserves to win the team or not. If the coach feels that those are the right full players then so be it. What a performance, that's what they say. Good one for Razda. That much tonight. Could you give it a skull in between DRC? That's a tough one. I think for tonight it's not about the results. It's about trying to monitor the boys and see who's fit enough, who's good enough to start in the Afghans. So to me tonight it won't be so much about results. In respect of whether DRC wins or maybe we win or maybe get a draw it will be all about monitoring the players. And if I can quickly I don't know what Zach has said. I think Zach is right. I've been monitoring the coach for a while and I think we're trying to see the type of player that he likes to play up front. I mean he likes waka holics. He talks about why Wanga was left in the provisional squad and they picked Jonah Vire, my teammate. I'm a witness. I know how Jonah Vire works. He's a really hard work. He can track back, he can hustle the defenders, he can go back, he can defend, he can run forward, he can attack, he can hold the play. And if you look at the way Masood plays, I think Masood plays the same way. They just bullies on the ball and off the ball. So to me I think coach has been looking for a type of player who can play up front, who can bully the defenders at the same time, who can come back and track. And look at the way we've been playing with the Lunga, playing at the launch track at the centre forward. We'll really need a lot of pace and power at the flanks so that at least the delivery, so maybe the delivery to a Lunga can be perfect. And you know, with those one or non situations again, we can always count on the Lunga. Well, the game will be today at 7pm in Madrid. That will be Kenya versus DR Congo. But before the game, we had a chance to talk to these coaches. And these were they sent to us from Paris ahead of these games. Bastian Minye, the coach, Victor Wanyama, the captain and Francis Cajata, our Kenyan midfielder in Paris. Any risk with Musa tomorrow? So we will play without Ryan and Musa. But I told you, when you have a bad luck, it's every time an opportunity also to have a new answer. It was the case for the game against Ghana without my captain. And at this time we found the solution. We will see tomorrow but one time again the priority is Algeria. We need to continue to learn with this competition but we are not still in the top in Africa. We are on the way. FIFA ranking and Africa ranking can explain it. It's sure we are maybe around 25 in Africa today. But it's not a reason to stop the game. We want to continue. Since one year the players gave me every time a good surprise and we need to continue like it. The morale in the camp has been fantastic. We have a very good group and come tomorrow we just want to compete. We want to give our best on that game even if it's friendly. And then we will see the outcome. We want to perform well, we want to give our best. We want to go to every game and perform better. We want to give our all to get the positive results. And also I want to urge all the Kenyans supporters if they can travel and support the team. And also in the back home just get behind the team and support the team. We want to keep our hearts and minds strong. We want to motivate the players to continue in the game. We will continue playing this game next year. We don't want to be in the group but we want to show our presence and support to the team. So we are ready to play this game next year. We want to give our best on the game. We want to give our morale and make our preparations more friendly. Na najiwa iti game ita kwa po udo, atwezu wa darau, but na najiwa zi na team bado iko ridikilem ta kwa ridina. Well, Coach, Sebastian Mene, there, Victor Wanyama and Frances Cajata talking about the upcoming gamers they prepare ahead of the Africa Cup of Nations. Ronald, the Africa Cup of Nations is finally here and Kenya will be participating in the show piece. We'll let it be a star track kind of moment getting onto the Africa Cup of Nations because the teams we played with in 2004 have gone a major milestone considering where Kenya is at the moment. Teams like Tunisia, teams like Mali, teams like Bukina Faso, they have gone way far ahead more than Kenya. Will Kenya be star track going into this competition? Well, I don't think it will be star track because we also have a star in our team, we also have Victor Nyama. I mean, we don't have many Africans playing in the EPL and EPL is one of the best leagues. So, to me, the boys, I think, they are professional enough to know the job that is taking them there.  And to me, there's no better chance that... There's no better time that we stand a better chance to show the world and to show the continent what we too can produce. Because for a long time, when we talk to Nigerians, they say Kenyans are only good at athletics. They only know Kenya about athletics and maybe rugby a bit. And I think there's a better time for us to announce ourselves in the biggest stage and that's the Afghan. And to me, I think they're braced and ready for the job that is waiting for them. Zax, you wrote about the federation in your book. It's a major part in your book talking about the federation, the wrangles and everything that they have had. But this time round, what will you give the federation on what they have done to this team? I think so many people mostly have not read the books because of my stand on topical issues. I've had this notion that maybe I'm against the federation. When actually in this book, there's no entity that have placed like the federation. You can't wash away what Nick Mundo has done in Marta's organization. You got to give it to him. We've never had such a kind of thing. Like a two-week camp in France, guys are all kitted. They are bonus as a coming on time. These are the little things that players need. The government is also coming in. The government is also chipping in. These are the little things that the players need to boost their morale in the game. So if that aspect is sorted the way Ronald said, then it's now up to them to give us the show that every other person requires. You remember guys asking why so-and-so is in the team and so-and-so is in the team. So it's up to the players to prove to the court that you gave me this chance. It's my time to prove this. And this is the reason why so-and-so didn't make it here. On the striking thing, I don't think we'll have a problem with that because when you look at a player like Feli Monantino, the way he said, this is someone who has been in the calf for the past two seasons. Josh is the same. And then you look at players like Kwenyama, players like, I think, Akina Teddy. These are players who have completed with some of the best in Africa. And some of these best players are like, when you watch the kumu, the defender, he tells you when he was in the PSL, he featured with guys like Shabalala, Pesitao. See Pesitao is someone who's just gone from the PSL to EPL in Belgium. This is someone we'll see again, then he'll just say this is someone I've played with against before. So why should I be afraid of this guy when I'm tackling him before? So it's just the same something. I don't think we'll have a problem with the stage. Yeah, plus remember the game against Ghana? I mean, Pate asked for Dennis Udiambo's… No, just… Dennis Udiambo is a local player. I mean, so I don't think that would be an issue. Pate himself revealed that this guy is good enough. He is the moralist, exactly. But when we talk about the federation, this is the first time that we have had a federation that has come with age groups and so for the national team. We have got the under 13, we've got the under 15, under 17, under 23 and the national team. Are you seeing a good future for us? Because now after this generation of players, we have got to see another good generation coming up of players. Definitely yes, Robert, because it's a way to success because we have those structures and we've been lacking so much such structures since the reign of Uncle Samnewea. We've never had such kinds, but here comes Nick Mwendoa. He has put all the structures even though he hasn't worked all, he hasn't exhausted all the promises he made. But at least we are seeing the under 13 elite league. Myself, I do witness the leagues those kids are playing. So it's a good structure and all over the world it has been happening.  Look at, I'll give you the example of our neighbouring country, Tanzania, now their league is over, now they are under 20s are playing their league now. That's a very good structure because they are using their youth under 20 boys, they are using them to feed their senior teams. So at least Nick Mwendoa could us for that. Just to add on what that guy said, you see in Tanzania in this book, I think at the essence of academies. If you look at that Tanzanian team right now in Afkan, there are eight players who graduated from the Azam academy that are currently in the national team. So I will tell you if you are going to have a youth structure that works, then we won't be having problems in fishing players from other countries in the name of these guys in Kenya. I mean that weighing issue won't be there. When you have ready made talents ready for the market, then just pick guys from the academy and just get in the league and in the national team. It helps a lot in those established leagues. Well, football Kenya Federation President Nick Mwendoa is also in Paris with the team as the team is preparing to play in Egypt. He also had an interview there. Let's hear what he had to say from France. Alright, my director will be looking for that one, we'll be playing it a little later in, okay, let's play it. We are heading to three weeks completion of three weeks of training. Tomorrow is our second and final friendly against DRC in Madrid. We have been here so for three weeks. We promise that we will do this and we have pulled all stops together is done. I am very encouraged by the work we have done. The team has done a fantastic job. I have been here myself for this period of time and I can only say that I wish we had this in Kenya. It's different. The approach is different. The tools are different. The camp has exceeded my expectations by being here. And we have been locked away one hour from Paris without distractions. I think no player has left the camp since we played Madagascar. And so I'm very encouraged by the work we have done and what we set out to do for these players and for Kenya in terms of preparation. Once we play DR Congo tomorrow, I am glad that we will have done and got in the job done to the details that we really wanted to get done. We have given the coach and the players everything they ever asked for and more. We have pulled all stops to make sure that that is done. I can only say that now it's upon them to get a job done. So I want to set a record straight. When we left Kenya, every player got $2,500. That was also unprecedented because we paid them before and we promised Kenyans that when the coach releases his final 23 squad, we will pay the $5,000 to make it a total of $7,000. And I can tell Kenyans again that yesterday, all players and the bench were paid all money once again in advance of $5,000 yesterday went to the players. So we paid $7,500 in allowances so we do not owe anyone. In advance before even getting the cup of nations, we have made the payments, we have closed. And that's why you see there is no story about money anymore. There is nothing to discuss regarding money. The preparation has been super. They have got their kit, they have got their medical equipment, they have the support staff around with them. They have a fantastic facility that you can dream of. Portugal was here before they won the Euro in 2017. So can you imagine our team staying in the same facility at Portugal Stadium? This is unprecedented stuff. This has never happened in Kenyan football. We have given them every little tool they have asked for. We have added the number of support staff they wanted. And we even brought a chef for them to make sure that they have a Kenyan touch in the food that they asked for. We cannot be 100% but this that we have done is unprecedented. In my administration, we promise Kenyans that we shall do this and I'm glad the team has done it. And I want to tell Kenyans today that I have been here myself throughout. I have attended almost each and every training and I have seen the team evolve with the difficulties and challenges we have had by players needing to come in in time and having to make quick decisions to make sure it's done. We thank government for what they did for us. But now it's been our turn to show government this is what we have been talking about. The CS has been here. She has seen this facility, she has seen the work we have done. I think every Kenyan is enthusiastic now but as opposed to before when we kept saying if the federation doesn't do this, doesn't do that now the ball is in the players and the coaches' coats. They have all the support they need including the little most you can ask for to deliver a fantastic afkul for us. I have a good feeling about this afkul. Next week we leave on Tuesday, we dock in Cairo on Tuesday and for another four days we prepare for the final leg of these finals in preparation to play Algeria on 23rd June at 10 p.m. in the night and I want to tell Kenyans that we have done the best. Let us win by doing the best and even though we lost, let us lose no win that we gave these kids and these boys all they deserve, we paid them, we kitted them, we fed them, we paid for their flights, we made sure they are comfortable and whatever the coach wanted which has never happened in Kenyan history whatever he wanted, we have delivered and I have been there personally to make sure that is done. It's important for Kenyans to know this because we have been, there has been questions around administration of sport in Kenya and I personally want to show that it can be done and it is being done and we are sharing every day everything that we do to say that this has never been done before in any sport. We want Kenya to follow this example now of openness, of directness, of making sure that the athletes are taken care of in the right way and making sure that they come number one and making sure that whenever our coach says this is how I want to win then we can question the coach by giving the coach what he needs and by making sure that we are no longer discussing the mundane small things that have rocked Kenya. We are not there yet, our budget is still too low, we do not have money for bonuses that they are going to win but you know those are bonuses. Kenya will decide the president make a decision what to give the players when they win as that when they do and I have told them that they can win this cup. They can win this Afghan and if they win this Afghan, Kenya will turn around for them. Kenya, I know if they win this Kenyans will show up for them and do something big for their lives to change their lives forever and we have players who are doing this all these players are doing this for the first time as I am doing it for the first time and I think you can tell Kenyans to look forward to it but whatever happens we have exceeded our expectations we want to come back to go to Chan in January in Kamehru and we want to go back to Afghan again in 2021 so that we are no longer those that just appear once and disappear we want to continue consistently preparing a team in the right way and hopefully the results come out of the way and that way then we can grow Kenyan football and grow the players because if they win then more clubs look into Kenya more players play abroad there are bigger pool of players to compete at the highest level which is what West Africa has done and we want to make sure that we can do better than them so we agreed that there are two paths of monies there is what we agreed to pay each player at every stage $2,500 for being in the 27th squad four players were released they got $2,500 paid, finished then there is what they were to get as they head into Cairo which was $5,000 these are allowances fixed amounts that we agreed with the coach and the players then now there is when they win a game every nation in Africa whenever a team wins a game so we agreed a certain structure with them and said that's what they are going to get but those are bonuses we do not have that money we have asked and explained to the ministry and the government and our sponsors that we don't have that money and we have explained to the players that money will not be available immediately in Cairo but as we play in that tournament the more they win the higher the chances we have of paying them more I can tell you if they go to the finals they will win themselves $1.2 million $120 million Kenyan shillings if they got there and if they get to the final because we will be paid money by AFKON we will not need any money from any other source we shall pay them by what we have won if we do not get there then we will need help from other sponsors but I want to tell Kenyans that every little thing we agreed has been done for the first time in a major tournament we did it for the girls in 2016 we have now done it for the boys Fulbo Kenyan Federation president Nick Muenda speaking in Paris ahead of the DRC Congo tonight and also as the team prepares for the Africa Cup of Nations that will be played in Egypt later the big question Ronald will be what are your expectations from Harambia Stars when they head on to Egypt I expect a good show definitely because they have had the best preparations I have ever seen according to the national team a camp in France the bonus has been paid just like Zak said we have a new kid the whole nation is behind us we have every reason to go there and give a performance of a lifetime to me I expect nothing short of a good performance even though they have been talks of maybe we can get to the quarters to me that is still a huge feat we can just go there and take one match at a time maybe try and get the best result we can at most maybe let us try and get two draws and then we die with Tanzania Tanzania is also thinking like that Tanzania is also thinking the same so I think that is only team will get the three points but for these other ones we must be tactical enough in order to approach these two teams because I mean those are the giants of Africa people are talking about Tanzania we have got Sengo we have got Algeria but the question is we have never gone past the group stage but this time around 24 team tournament 16 teams to the knockout stage do you see a number of stars making on to the knockout stages putting in order that we are going to be maybe a surprise package in the group strategies will work will work because the first match we were playing Algeria probably it's a hard match it's a very competitive match the next match will be Senegal then the last match Tanzania so I think if we pick two draws and then like yes we die with Tanzania it will be better at least so we have to make sure that we don't lose the first match the second match we go for the second one is Tanzania then the third exactly so I think we have a blended squad mixed with young and experienced players so actually we are looking forward to get good results against all those big teams Zak, for the old shop is now what you will be expecting because it's a big one Egypt have won it a record 7 times but they are home they have got the likes of Mo Salah Senegal is coming there with some of the best players Kulibali, Sadio Mane what you will be expecting from the shop is itself in the football matters for the entire shop is I think there are a lot of surprise packages you see for a team to make it to Afghan that would mean it's a good team but definitely in every tournament they are favourites I don't know why people are ravishing off Morocco there is one Afghan with 2 teams Zambia and Ivory Coast this is someone that you people should not be taking lightly defensively he has the players in attack he has the players that he requires he knows what African football entails I will pick them as one of the favourites with Egypt as the host nation Senegal with their star starred team is another team to watch though I don't think Cameroon will do that well because of their culture I don't think Sidoff understands African football and the players he has in store now that even Abu Bakar did make this code so I think it's one team that might struggle that's Cameroon with Ghana might struggle those are the groups as we heard going to the African and Ronald when you look at those group you're talking about Clarence Sidoff and Ghana that is not going to perform my question was going to be the tradition of powerhouses African football do give them a chance because Ivory Coast we've got Ghana we've got Egypt Nigeria Maso Nigeria always coming back they were not in the last edition in fact for Nigeria they are going to prove I mean they are not in the last edition and this edition I think we even saw Obi Miquel coming back from retirement I think they mean business and to me I think in my own opinion I think we'll definitely see the major players going all the way up to the finals because in the first the knockout stages I think the boys will be sent home and I'm just hoping that Kenya won't be a market the boys being sent home early but generally I think I expect to see the big names Nigeria, Ghana, Algeria Camerooni I'm also giving Camerooni a chance and we'll just wait to see they will be a shocker because we've got new teams coming on to the Africa Pugnations for the first time we've got Burundi, we've got Mauritania and Madagascar may they not shock some teams here and there in the African continent definitely we expect a lot from those new camers we've seen a surprise package back in 2015 where Camerooni where Zambia work around the champions of that edition so they had no one they had their captain Christopher Katongo who was initially playing for a club in Cyprus so I think this time the big guns will not give in the big guns will not give any chance will not let anyone again do wonders before them but the European players also who are coming to play in the Africa Cup we can't base the players the likes of Mo Salah Sadio Marez Marez is also there Kulibal is also there what kind of impact will they have in their teams these players will perform anyway whether it's a tournament it's a qualification process you expect them to give a performance when you're talking about people like Mo Salah if someone who's been giving performance the same way is giving at Liverpool but again you see this another but players see as a platform to market themselves someone like Marez hasn't been happy at Man City because of lack of playing time so he wants to show the entire world what he can do in this continent and that again might work for these underdogs these underdogs not most of them in the tournament to win it or something but a few players that see these as a platform to market themselves and be ready for the markets but to favor teams like Kenya you see there's a lack of filimonote who might want to have a professional career and guys who've been playing locally this is the time they see that they have to perform to realize their dream of playing professionally I doubt if the lack of Mo Salah the lack of money will replicate the same form they've been giving in the leagues because African football is another different ball game altogether it's so physical to see maybe some of our stars maybe they don't shine when they come to play for the country because I mean it's so physical and most of this maybe let me say the minos the mino teams, the players they always want to make a name with you so I don't think they'll be finding it easy when they're playing against some of these teams I hope they don't perform because if they don't perform then we stand a chance here my only worry is if they perform then we don't stand a chance if they have to fail to perform if they have to perform when we are up against Senegal then we are in the next round because you can remember what Hatsu did to Pilewa at the last march maybe Robert if I had something you gentlemen don't write of Tanzania because I've seen a majority of their players, I know them I've met with them sometimes they were in the senior team when I was in the Azamanda 20 academy so the likes of Agremoris, Erastonyoni in the back line we have John Boko in the front line we have Mbuana Samata was the best player in the Belgium League we have Thomas Ulimuangu who plays trade in Algeria so I think these are blended squad that have vast experience with Emmanuel Ammonique I don't think he will he's the coach so I don't think it will be thank you gentlemen for coming here to the touch line Edie Shikanda who plays for Nairobi City Stars our sports journalist and remember to buy his book away from victory you can go to Naruk Book Club and you can get that book there for a thousand shillings and then we have got Ronald Okot also of the Ro Sports Management I'm Robert Osor and on behalf of everybody who managed to bring the touch line to you we say good afternoon