we confuse extreme fitness and performance and what that looks like with health. We confuse the two. Extreme fitness and performance looks a particular way for sure, but health longevity and balance doesn't look like that. Let's swing it so far in the other direction that now we're putting obese individuals on magazines. And we're saying that this is healthy, which it's not. It literally is the same terrible message just packaged differently. And the reason why they're able to package it this way is because you've heard the other message for so long that the opposite message is almost like a breath of fresh air. No, it's also it's the same thing. It's the same exact thing just in the opposite direction. All right, everybody, especially you fitness fanatics, I hate to break this to you, but extreme fitness and extreme physical performance, it's not healthy does not contribute to longevity. I had this discussion today on a podcast I was interviewed by Chris. What do I say? I love that guy. He's a good guy. I just met him today, in fact. And he asked me about how I'm glad you called him out. What did I say? I love this guy. I just met him. I just love it. What I mean is I like it. Anyway, we had a great conversation. We were talking about longevity and fitness, and it kind of went in that direction. It's like strength is very healthy, but power lifters don't have typically great health or great longevity, right? Cardiovascular endurance, very healthy. People who run, you know, 100 mile marathons, not so healthy, right? Muscle, very healthy. Pro bodybuilder is not so healthy. There's a crossover between fitness performance and longevity, but the more, the further you go in the extreme, the worse your longevity. It's amazing that this isn't obvious to everybody. You know what it is? It's obvious to everybody that's not in that category. You tell, if you tell a runner that about bodybuilding and power, he's going to be like, yeah, yeah, those guys are crazy. Then you say running them. Oh, no, well, I'm not somebody who abuses that. You tell that to a bodybuilder about power. Yeah. It's like whatever camp you're in, that your, your, your belief system of the best way to stay fit and healthy, you don't, you don't believe that you're the extreme version of that. And I want to say this because oftentimes what is promoted as pictures of health, oftentimes probably every time is extremes. It's like, oh, look at this athlete, look at this pro football player, baseball player, look at this, uh, this, uh, Olympic athlete. This is healthy. What do they do for their health? It's like, look, and I do want to say this too, like quality of life contributes to health as well. So if you enjoy lifting heavier than you should for longevity, and it's something that you really enjoy, like that's great. And that could that contribute to longevity? Maybe because of the quality, improving your quality of life, but the more extreme things go the further away you move away from longevity and, and well, I think we need to communicate it. We need to tease out like the, the true specimens. Like I have no problem with portraying specimens in, in their particular sport or their particular pursuit. Like, you know, all the bests, you know, for, for them at the highest peak of their performance, whatever it is. But we got to, we got to tease out that it's like health is a completely different pursuit. Right. And so, you know, I think that's where a lot of the articles and a lot of the stuff, like they convolute all that by trying to say that like, well, you know, they're only eating, um, you know, all, it's all carnivore diet or it's all like these extreme versions of things that are getting them to that, to that pinnacle. Uh, in, in, so your average person is like, well, I need to do that too.  Um, but literally like there, what they're doing right now is completely different than what you're trying to do. Yeah. I did you, I don't know if you guys saw, I actually, um, I didn't know you're going to go this direction in the conversation. I, I was real hesitant to post, uh, I had a current picture of myself from vacation with my son and I posted it in the, the main IG. Oh, I saw it. And, and I thought, you know what, I want to post this because I would consider myself in some of the worst aesthetic shape, uh, that I've been in the last decade. Yeah. You're so hard on yourself, Adam. No, I mean, it's a fact. It's, it's not, it's not me being hard on myself. It's a fact. Yeah, but you look good. Aesthetically. I saw the picture, I know, but that, that was why I wanted to share it. Yeah. Right. Like I was hesitant because I'm like, well, this is like the worst shape I've been in a decade. Like it's not something to brag about. But I was like, you know what, I want to highlight that this is, this is what real life can look like. And I still would consider myself healthy and in pretty good shape, especially all things considering, if you think of my balance with work, my balance with my family life, my balance as a father, uh, my mobility, um, my, my sleep, my, if you factor all that in, you could make the case that I'm actually some of the healthiest I've ever been in my life, even though I don't look like the version of me, just say six or seven years ago. And so that was the, that was kind of the motivation and, and it's unfortunate because it's not, um, like nobody, I guarantee screen shot of that photo and said, this is my, I'm going to aspire to look like this or be like that because it isn't the extreme. It's nothing, but if I, and the irony is if I would have posted the extreme version of myself and said, this is where I'm at right now, check it out. Like I guarantee there would be all kinds of saves and shares on it because it's like motivation for people. But the reality is most people my age should probably aspire to be that version of me than the version of me six or seven years ago. It's, it's a better quality of life for most people. It, it offers balance. You've got more longevity.  Yeah. Completely. Yeah. And could you be the dad that you are without that kind of stuff? And would you even want to, right? So it's, uh, we, we confuse extreme fitness and performance and what that looks like with health. We confuse the two extreme fitness and performance looks a particular way for sure, but health, longevity and balance doesn't look like that. Usually there's extreme variances in individuals. They're definitely people that, uh, they just, they're the, you know, 0.1% that look a particular way almost no matter what. That's not most people. Most people it's, it's about balance and longevity and health. And you know, to use another example, like one of the single, one of the best single metrics for all cause mortality is strength. Like, so you could take someone measure their grip strength, which is a good general way to measure overall strength. And based off that, they can more accurately predict versus other single metrics. Someone's all cause mortality. Now, does that mean that strength in extreme endeavors contributes to more and more longevity? No, look at strongman or power lifters or people who pursue it to the absolute extremes. At some point it's this, you get this negative result from it. Now I'm not, I don't want anybody to feel like I'm hammering them if they enjoy doing that kind of stuff. I'm all about also quality of life. Like, you know, here's an, here's the example I brought up on, on the podcast I did earlier, we talked about, um, alcohol. There's very conflicting studies with alcohol, extremely conflicting studies. Like for example, if you look at, um, the island of Sardinia, where men live to a hundred at rates that no, that there's no one else in the world that men live that long at that, uh, proportion, right? And one of the practices that they have there, that's pretty regular, is they drink wine every night, every single night they have wine. Now we have clear studies showing that alcohol in any amount is unhealthy, any amount is unhealthy. And yet we have studies showing that people who live a long time often will have a glass of wine or two every single night. But how's that possible? Well, because it has nothing to do with the wine, it has to do with the quality of life that's being improved. And that highlights how much weight that carries in the overall health sphere. Totally. So can, um, pizza be healthy? Yeah. I think it depends on how you use it, how much you have it, and what you're doing with it. Alcohol, can all these things be healthy in terms of, uh, longevity? Yes. So it's much more complicated and it's not the whole like, oh, that person looks shredded. I'll tell you what, right now some of the unhealthiest people I've ever known look the most shredded and the most muscular. Yeah. I think this is a, this is a tough one because of, uh, how I've seen everything kind of turn in terms of marketing, uh, into the culture, right?  Um, but at the same time, like there was a little bit of a different kind of motivation with that versus, you know, now it's like, uh, it's almost, it's almost the extreme other end of it, right? So now it's like all complacency, like, no, don't even try. Good point.  I think it's, it's, it's just like considering that, um, there's a lot more, uh, factors in terms of lifestyle, in terms of health, in terms of like relationships, in terms of like, you gotta, you gotta sort of take inventory of all those different pursuits and, and where to pour, you know, your effort into each one of those buckets. And it's like it, we're always trying to promote balance. And, and that's, that's where you're gonna live and thrive. I feel like best. I 100% agree with what you're saying, Justin. And I, and I'm glad you brought that up because I do want to be careful about that either because I also don't want to be. Yeah. We're not promoting the other extreme. Because, you know, here's the thing. The most dangerous part about the, the living in those extreme places, whether, like, think of it the same way with living in the extreme dieting place. What do we always talk about? Why that's so dangerous? It's the rebound. And so you swing so hard the opposite direction. So one of the things that I was most proud of about my current state of my health slash physique or where it's at right now is I was able to go on vacation for three weeks, literally not work out. I drank, I ate out, but I did it in, in, in a moderation that didn't allow me to go way overboard, which is what I would have done in the past. And the pet, my, my 20s looked like this, um, the tip top shape version of me, which is single digit body fat, Adam. And then the extreme like, yeah, I'm on vacation all, yeah. Then I like put on all kinds of body fat.  That was, that was a lot of my 20s was either I was in primo shape or I was completely out of shape, all or nothing. Where what, what I think that I've, I've gotten better about is not living in the extreme so much because even though those extremes can teach us some things about fitness, about nutrition that I think are very valuable. The most dangerous parts about the extremes is they tend to cause people to go the extreme opposite direction also. So that is the thing that I would caution people about is like, I think, I think, uh, I think competing like I did was one of the most valuable things I ever did. It took my, my consistency and discipline, my understanding of my own body and nutrients, uh, macronutrients and what I needed for my body to look and feel a certain way. It took it to a whole other level and understanding that I, I previously did not have until that, but the dangerous part about that, and it would have been if I would have ran into that at 23 or 24, because it would have caused a whole different like body image issues and extreme dieting back and forth, yo-yo dieting and stuff versus I went into it a much more mature and experienced trainer and knowing the pitfalls of those extremes. You knew, you were aware going into it and what, you know, the point Justin's making about what they're doing now is they taking the pendulum and they said, oh, it's way too extreme over here. Let's swing it so far in the other direction that now we're putting obese individuals on magazines and we're saying that this is healthy, which it's not. It's, it, it literally is the same terrible message just packaged differently. And the reason why they're able to package it this way is because you've heard the other message for so long that the opposite message is almost like a breath of fresh air. Right. Oh yeah, this is, that was crazy. This mustn't be crazy. So the heroin looking at models, that's unhealthy. So, oh, thank God they're putting someone that's 300 pounds on the magazine. That's so much better. No, it's also, it's the same thing. It's the same exact thing just in the opposite direction. Exactly. Yeah, both people, both people have a very bad relationship with food. Bad relationship with health. Period. That's it. I really hope the next extreme is going to be the middle. That'd be great. We've done both. Well, that's a problem. It's not an extreme. It's not. Maybe it will be considered that. And that's the reason why I think the other way is so marketable is because it is another extreme. It's just another version of extreme. It's the extreme opposite than the heroin addict, skinny model look is like you're saying. It's like, and that's more, extremes are marketable. In the middle, average is not. And I don't know if it'll ever will be. Maybe it will be when it's so not typical, right? I was having this conversation yesterday with my oldest. We were sitting for dinner and that show I talked to you guys about on Netflix.  Oh, the sex room. And I was talking about one of the episodes and we were laughing about like, just, oh my gosh, people are like really like different what they're into, whatever. And my son goes, what if it goes, I bet you in the future, it's going to be considered really weird and kinky to like just have missionary sex. And I was laughing. He goes, what if that's like the future? Like, hey, you guys want to do it? Yeah, sure. I'm just going to get on top. Just like regular. Like what? Regular. You mean nothing else? Like no weird, like you're not going to hit me in the face or anything weird? I mean, I wonder if that's going to happen. I mean, I would like to think that's kind of how society works, right? Where the initial swing is always the hardest. And then when it swings back, it's not quite as far. And then when it swings back, it's not quite as far. Like bumpers on a, on a, on a, those lanes. Well, like a, like a pendulum that's slowing down, you know, the initial, when you swing that pendulum, it's going to swing as hard this way. And as hard back the first two swings, then the third swing, it's a little less, the fourth swing, it's a little less. And then it just, and you get closer and closer to probably the center and more middle. I mean, I hope that's kind of, and I think that would would look that way in most areas. So maybe it's not as extreme in, in the future. It's a, it's a little less, but, and maybe what draws it back to the more of the center is that, yeah, it becomes popular to be missionary. I mean, you see this like with tattoos, right? So in our, in our generation, in our generation, tattoos were just starting to become like before our parents' generation, tattoos was like prison. Dude, if you had one tattoo, you're like, oh my gosh. Yeah, prison, Harley guy, motorcycle dude, bad boy, if you had a tattoo. And then it became very popular in our generation. And then it was like, oh, you're kind of edgy.   Then we went the whole way and, you know, tattooing your face and everything like that. And then now I see this younger generation, it's not as popular to be tattooed. Like, so, you know, I, but yet so some people are doing it, but I think it's less extreme. So I mean, I think this all. It took like tatting all the way over their face and everything to them to be like, ah, you know, I think it's for me. Or face implants.  Oh, yeah. Like horns under their skin and stuff? Oh, yeah. Well, I think, yeah.  I think that there's potential there. And that's why it's good to pursue challenges and look at it like a season or it's like, this is a period. Just don't marry it. I'm going to pursue this. You just can't like live there. Yeah. Because it doesn't benefit your body long-term. No, 100% right. That's, I think there is a lot of, I mean, I think there would be a tremendous value in being an extreme runner for a while than an extreme bodybuilder for a while and then an extreme powerlifter for a while for a while. Like taking yourself to like, I'm going to be very competitive about getting good at running. Oh, those are great challenges. Yeah. I think those are, I think there's a lot of lessons in there. You're going to learn a lot about your body along that way. But it, but what tends to happen in our space is you marry an ideology. And then, I mean, and then you're looking at decades. I've been this powerlifter guy or decades. I've been this bodybuilder guy or decades on this marathon runner. It's like, you know, I think there's value in all of those things and learning the process of getting good at those things and what it teaches you about your body, about health. And then I think you, if you've done a good job, you kind of find the balance. That's what the bodybuilding thing did. What the bodybuilding thing did for me is like, I really became so hyper aware of, you know, how hard I was training in the gym in relation to what my calories needed to look like versus in relation to my steps and movement. I trained that so consistently for so many years that like when I was on vacation for these few weeks, I just, it was really easy for me to modify. I didn't say no to the drink with my friends at the beach. Like, okay, we did that. But then I was, I was aware that, hey, I didn't get up till nine o'clock. I didn't train the day. We haven't really walked around very much. I'm also not going to go over indulge on the dessert because I just sat here and had some alcohol and I want to make sure that I, you know what I'm saying? So I've, I've learned to- We only had candy one night the whole time. The whole time I bought candy and Adam and I had candy one night. Yeah. Oh yeah. Yeah. I mean, that's a thing. Like sometimes, you know, we go places. Adam and I, you know, sometimes- Well, so, okay. Funny you bring that up because I have, from our Cabo trip, I bought candy, I bought peach rings and I bought something else at the airport. Oh, I love peach rings. Peach rings and something I can't remember with the other candy. And that sounds sturdy though. But hey, yeah, I don't know why. Both those bags are still at my house right now. That would, in my 20s, that would never fly. You would just crush it. Because yeah, because between, between three and a half, four weeks ago now, it's almost been four weeks and today, I have already had multiple times where I craved that stuff, where in the past I would indulge, especially because I'm not being consistent with my training. Where now, like, I've learned to train myself that like, you know, I definitely haven't earned the right to do that, or else I'm going to be putting myself in a deeper hole. It's more enjoyable too with balance.  Oh, I feel terrible. My stomach hurts. No, same here. You overdo it. And you just punish yourself. Boom, what's up? 72 hours left for the huge sale. This just turned out to be the biggest sale we've done all year long. Only three days left for 50% off the RGB bundle. That's MAPS metabolic mass performance, MAPS aesthetic. And 50% off MAPS suspension. This is a suspension trainer program. By the way, I'm going to give those two things away for free right now. So one of you is going to get them for free, but you got to do this. Leave a comment below in the first 24 hours that we dropped this episode. Subscribe to this channel. Click on notifications. Do all those things. If we like your comment, we'll notify you. And you'll get the RGB bundle and MAPS suspension for free. Now everybody else, they're all 50% off right now, but there's only three days left as of the dropping of this episode. So if you're interested, go to mapsfitnessproducts.com and then use the code July 50 for that discount. All right, here comes the show. Yeah, speaking of like progress and learning and stuff, have you guys been reading what they're saying about these new studies on serotonin and depression? Jack, he just sent something over just now. He did too, and it's making its rounds, right? So this is groundbreaking. In fact, the timing is perfect. I'm reading a book right now called The Body Keeps the Score, which very intense read. And it talks about PTSD, trauma, how the body stores it, and how our medical establishment has viewed these things throughout the years. And the latest, I guess, way that we've looked at things like depression, anxiety, and stuff like that is that it's a chemical imbalance. So when Prozac was invented, this was the first SSRI, everybody was like groundbreaking, right? Here we have a drug now, because we thought it was, okay, serotonin deficiency. That's what's causing depression. That's what's contributing to anxiety. Here we have a drug that's going to raise serotonin levels in the brain, and this is going to totally help. And that changed psychological medicine forever. So it went from talk therapy to psychiatry where it's prescription-based. And now you go get all these different prescriptions. And this has been the model for Western medicine for a long time. It's chemical imbalances. You need this norepinephrine reuptake inhibitor or the serotonin reuptake inhibitor or whatever, right? Well, the study comes out now showing completely throwing shade on the whole thing and saying they don't think serotonin is really a contributor to depression. Now, they've tested it many different ways in this, which is really interesting. Really, really interesting. Now, what I find really interesting about that is I have a very vivid memory of my psychology class, my first year of college, and we had debate whether SSRI drugs are worth it or not, because they had already came out with studies that showed that they were getting the same effect with placebo. So the argument was, well, if it's helping them, should we do it or not? And we had a debate that in class. Well, the evidence they're showing now is that it may be more numbing than anything, which I guess can help in some cases, but it obviously doesn't solve the root issue. And I mean, I've talked about this before. Exercise and studies outperform SSRIs when it comes to symptoms of depression. But boy, this is crazy because we've built an entire industry, decades-long industry over these medications and the theory that psychological disorders are chemical-embalanced or chemical-embalanced rooted. And in these studies, they did. They took people and they limited their serotonin. None of them became more depressed than other groups. And they looked at serotonin receptors. They actually found more serotonin receptors in people who were depressed, not less. Then they looked at serotonin levels and then they raised them and lowered them, dealt with things. And it's very interesting what's coming out. So I think there's some value, obviously, because people use them in fine value, but they're thinking maybe it has more of a numbing value than anything else. And that in many cases, it may be doing more harm than good. Obviously, I'm not a doctor, so you want to look this up yourself. And I do not... This I do know. You do not want to go off medications because you read a study. You got to do it with a doctor because I think the rebound... I hate when stuff like this comes out. It just... It makes me even more skeptical about all the research and the studies and stuff that we all hang on to and we tout and try and talk like in certainties about nutrition and fitness. And it's just like, God damn, dude, like every time we think we know it all, like something comes out like that and disproves something that we believe to be true for decades. Well, and people are self-protected of a lot of these methods too and may have their own anecdotes and things of success stories. And like to the numbing part of that, I've heard that from some people that it's helped them to sort of at least taper it down by not feeling anything really as much. But yeah, I mean, it's frustrating because too, you see this breakthrough science with psilocybin and some of these other means in therapies out there that are maybe unconventional. But you're like, wow, the success rate, look at statistically what's happening there. And it just doesn't seem like... It's a big ship to steer. Well, you know, the research on psychedelics and therapy was there was tremendous research, lots of research on it, until it became part of public enemy number one. But there was a lot of studies in the past. Now we have more studies now.  I don't think it works that way. In fact, I know that they say that. No, you need the therapy. It doesn't work that way, right? But it is interesting with these medications. And this book I'm reading is really fascinating.  It's just absolutely silly. And it's interesting too, because I mean, even if you had pain, like I remember Courtney going in and was experiencing pain and like their first answer to that was to give her like an SSRI or something. So you just don't feel like it solves nothing. Like didn't get to the root, but it's an easy thing to like sort of prescribe. So that way it like sort of has an immediate effect that people expect. Can also have scary side effects. Well, a lot of people gain weight on them, lose their libido.   As long as it has- Well, who funds all the studies? I know. If we have enough, we have enough studies to show that it has some sort of a positive benefit and that outweighs any sort of negative potential side effects. And if that is it, it's green light. Well, here's green light. Let's go. Let me give you- You know, 75% of commercials and ad space for everything on TV is pharmaceuticals. And the irony of that is we're one of the only countries that allows that, right? 75%. Let me give you three examples. Okay. When artificial sweeteners first were invented, they said, this is going to solve obesity. We can now make food sweet with no calories. Obesities work. Okay. Here's example number two. Statins were invented. Drug effectively lowers your cholesterol. It really- you take statin, your cholesterol is lower. We are going to solve this heart attack epidemic. No, didn't do anything to it. In fact, heart attacks are worse than ever. Now, we survive heart attacks more. It has more to do with the treatments that the doctors do when they go in after you have a heart attack or putting stains and stuff like that, right? Yeah. Number three, they invent SSRIs. This is- and I remember when they first came out, there's a very famous time magazine cover with like a happy face on it, the happy pill or something like that. It said, this is the chemical imbalance theory. This is the problem. Depression, worse than ever. So there's your evidence right there. So none of these things did anything to curb the growth of these problems. Why? Because they're far more complex than taking a pill or doing one thing. Well, we're in the middle of it right now, too, with medication for- we're starting to give kids like ADD medication. Starting to. That is an epidemic, bro. You're giving kids meth and it's like- I know. And that's- and, you know, again, something that we claimed is gonna- to help them or solve this issue and it's not getting better, it's getting worse. I remember as a- because I had- I got diagnosed with ADD as an adult and I remember taking a stimulant, prescribed stimulant for the first time as an adult. So I was in my 20s and they gave me a low dose of Adderall. I think it was like 5 milligrams, 7 milligrams. Considered a low dose. In fact, they'll start kids off on doses like 5 milligrams. And I remember taking it and as an adult and I was like, they give this to kids? This is drugs, man.  This is crazy. And then I remember telling the doctor, this was way back. And then they gave me another medication that wasn't stimulant based and then I felt weird and loopy. Imagine you're 7-year-old. You're giving them this. They don't have the words to describe kind of what's- all you notice is the kids call them now. Right. And you're like, oh, this is working. So I mean, again, I'm not a doctor. So I'm sure that there are applications for stuff like this, but man, we take a brush and we just, everything, broad strokes. Oh yeah, this is the solution. It's not the solution. And part of it is the funding. There are, like, try to fund a study or find a study that's funded with, with where the potential outcomes lead to zero profits. Yeah. Let's do a study on something natural where if it comes out that it works, nobody's going to fund it. Well, in the defense of science, nobody's going to fund those. That's what I'm saying. Yeah.   Yeah. Yeah. What study? Dogmatic about the study. Yeah. What study? You know what I do? I'll do this. I'll look at old practices. Practices that have been around for thousands of years. Okay. Well, why do they do this in Ayurvedic medicine? It's been around for a long time. There's obviously something there. Do they do something similar in Chinese medicine? Oh, wow, they do. Is there something in a practice over here in the Western world that's old that matches it? Yes, there is. Okay, there's something to it. Like there's something to fasting, for example, because it's present all these different forms. Or there's something to activity or there's something to talking your thing, your problems out. Really interesting. Anyway, in this book, it's really crazy.  And to see how the brain, and all they can see in the brain is more or less blood flow. Okay, this part of the brain is being active.  Was there any commonalities with which parts of the brain were the most active? Yes. So with the trauma, there's a part of the brain called the braka. I think I hope I'm saying a part of the brain which is responsible for using words to explain what's going on in your mind and what you're feeling and thinking.  So they say this is probably why some people don't even have the words to explain their trauma. Or when people are in traumatic experiences, they kind of like... Just shut down. Yeah, and then you ask them and they're speechless.  And they just don't talk. You can't describe. All they can do is feel.  That's just really weird. Yeah. Really, really fascinating stuff.  And you can see them grow and learn how to like, how to lie or manipulate mom and dad or how to be funny when they need to be. Come up with dark jokes. It's hilarious. Yes. So Jessica sent me a video of Aurelius. He somehow got into the pantry. It's where we have like snacks and stuff or whatever. And she got the phone at the camera and she goes in there and you can see his face like, oops, mom found me, right? And so that as soon as she sees him, he goes, bye, mama. Bye. And he's trying to tell her to leave.  He's like, uh-huh, bye-bye. So she's not leaving. So then he's blowing her kisses. This little manipulative kid. Get mom to leave it so he can eat some of the snacks. Dude, speaking of that, like too. So I was, I was just hanging out with Everett and he was, he was trying to be funny. It was like borderline, not funny, but like I could see how what his brain's trying to do right now, you know. And so he was trying to like associate, so we have, he was basically trying to describe what sequence we got the dog. So basically like we kidnapped the dogs, took them from their mother, created our own family with them. And meanwhile, like they'll never see their mommy. It was like super dark the way he's describing like how we attain pets and then raise them ourselves away from their own families. He's like laughing about it. I'm like, yeah, dude. That's kind of how it is. That's actually very deep for him to be thinking that way, right? Like most kids don't think about that, like that we have these, what we call pets. That's kind of cool. Yeah, it's really cool. I was tripping out on that to be honest with you guys. I was like, like him thinking about that, and like, you know, and he's like, and we give him a nice family at home, but we literally like took them. Yeah, we kidnapped them. Yeah, we kidnapped them from their own, you know, family. Like enslaved them basically. Whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa. We didn't do all that, dude. You ever learn about, like, why cats meow and why dogs bark when they're adults? Because like, dogs in the wild and wolves, they don't bark, unless when they're puppies.  It's because they evolved to act more like puppies as adults because we found it cute. Yeah, that's what we preferred. Yeah, and their features. The behaviors we fostered. Yeah, dude, they totally evolved to like, like that part of the revolution was like, we're going to make these, these like apex predators like us a lot because they'll just take care of us. Yeah, that's fascinating. I know, that's if we, yeah. You know, talking about kids too, you know, less of a kid, more of a young, young man. My nephew was in here today and Justin was helping him out with some of his football training. He's a sophomore and he's playing, playing football and he wanted to get some advice from Justin and I as far as like plyometrics and I was training and I said, oh man, this is a really good time. I said Justin's in the thick of all this right now. So, you know, if he's willing to to part with some of his time, I said, I would love to be able to get you with him and then all of us kind of work together. And so we brought him in today and was teach him some drills. And I mean, I know this is probably very normal for Justin because he's living in that world but I forget, you know, like just the body awareness that like those young kids have. And it's like, and it also highlights to me how disconnected so many young like athletes are with coaching and strength training and stuff like that because to me, it reminded me that he is the normal and there's probably three to five kids on the team that most training drills that a lot of these coaches are doing really only cater to because they have already the cordial ability. Yeah, the natural ability, the coordination. That's interesting. Yeah, like, I mean, my nephew's done a really good job in the last year of like, you know, leaning out and building his gas tank and like he's really, you could tell he's really wanting to get good at football. And then Justin has him in there doing some drills and he's just like the communication of his upper body to his lower body is just not there.  He hasn't lived in that body very long, has he?  But you can just see, like as Justin, and you know, Justin has such beautiful form, right? He teaches a windmill or a boxjunk and so a boxjump. Boxjunk. And he just He's already asleep. He's already asleep. You know? He's asleep. And you know, and I'm watching Justin teach it and then I'm watching my nephew try and emulate it. And it's like, it's so far off. Like in this most simple little details. Well, yeah, it's great. Yeah, it's like a peer into like the last year or two. Like I've been trying to like really figure this out and like work my way back into that. You gotta have patience, man. Oh my God. And it's, yeah, because you have kind of ideas of like where you want to take them, but then you see what they're capable of and you're like, oh my God, I have to really peel back. How different is it training a kid versus someone who's older? Both cases have challenges moving. But advantages and disadvantages of both. Very different. Like I remember the first time I trained a kid, I was like, oh, you can't do this, but for different reasons than why your dad can't do this. Right. Like your dad can't do it because he's tight and stiff and he knows how to tell his body to do it. It ain't happening. Yeah. You just don't know how to tell your body to do it. If they're serious about it and they're disciplined like the adaptation process is so quick. It's crazy. With these kids. Yeah, I'm really excited I'm really excited to see if he takes the little bit of stuff that Justin was giving him and actually applies it and gets better. But even his dad with my brother-in-law was there watching it and you know, afterwards I said, do you have any questions and stuff? And he brought up like, you know, I know he really needs to work on his foot trails and it's crazy because it gave me the perspective of like a dad or somebody who doesn't know like what we're showing and teaching him is like, you know, it's wild is even though Justin wasn't teaching him all these foot drills, what you want to see come out of your son will come out if he actually practices these movements because Justin's teaching him a proper windmill. You know, he's taught and teaching him how to be on the balls of feet, how to do a single box jump, right? You know, the proper- You know a movie illustrated that real well? Karate Kid. Backs on, right hand. Wax off, left hand. Oh, the wax on, wax off. He said he wants to learn those complicated stuff. He's like, no, let's learn how to do wax, wax on, wax off. Yeah. Everything has to be quality. Like quality is so much more important with each one of those attempts and that's something that, you know, is it's frustrating a lot from the perception of kids or from the parents because they just want to get into the hype of it all and like, you know, get to the crazy hard workouts and yeah, and they just don't know that if you just spend that quality time like sharpening each part of that movement and being really intentional with every part of that process, what that is going to build for you later to then build upon it. Well, it really highlighted for me too the discrepancy between the young kid on the team who's like the super athlete and then the kid who's like so far, seems so far behind because just like my nephew, he's researching all this stuff. Like he came to us because he's like, he found like, plyometrics are supposed to help me out and he's like, Uncle, will you teach me plyometrics? And it's like, well, yeah, I could show you these ice skaters and all these cool like plyometric moves that you could do but he has, his body's not even communicating. Yeah, we had to do this first. Right. And so what ends up happening to probably a lot of these young athletes is you and why there, I think there's such a huge discrepancy between the superstar athlete and then kind of everybody else is you have this kind of genetic anomaly who is got, you know, passed down genes from dad or mom who were super athletes. Gifted motor coordination. Yeah, exactly. Gifted proprioception just to understand great body coordination and awareness and then they find plyometrics and they find these drills and it just enhances them. Well, and then the whole, like you said, the whole workouts and the structure from the coaches is geared towards those kids which leads everybody else, you know, to the side to try and catch up on their own. They're not getting any real, like, education and means of being able to work their way into that ability. So it, and it's funny because like the way, like I, I got things very easily, like with, with my body in terms of like, I could see you do something and I could mirror it pretty easily. That came naturally to me. And so that helped me a lot with athletics and my experience as a new trainer was like the frustration of it was that people didn't have those abilities. Yeah, just do this. Yeah. So half my career, literally, is me trying to figure out how to articulate each one of those and segment each one of those little pieces that, that make the most impact to then produce what I was already naturally capable of doing. This is when you start to learn how to communicate to your clients in ways that gets them to do what you want. So you're like, okay, I keep saying pull the bar down to your chest and it's not working. Oh, stick, bring your chest up to the bar. Yeah. And then it works. Try to reach the bar. Yeah. Then that starts. I wish I knew, so I was in here being interviewed when he was out there. I had no idea what you guys were doing. I wish I knew because I would have brought him organ complex from Paleo Valley. We got a bunch of them in the back. Oh, yeah. And for kids, that is a great, like you want to talk about like a natural multivitamin. Yeah. Especially for what kids need with the B vitamins and the iron and a lot that you get at an organ meat, which I actually didn't eat. I actually didn't even think about that. I stacked him up with some protein. Well, protein too, of course. But I would have given him the organ complex. Well, I mean, maybe you can pick it up now if you're going to see him. Yeah. Well, he's going to start coming in here. So I will. I'll give it to him the next time he's in here because he's coming. Well, we'll see. Right. So basically Justin and I gave him some stuff to work on and said, listen, what we, and here's the thing. Here's the challenge for him and I also is that he's going to another school that's, you know, that's he's practicing with and then also lifting with already. Oh, so the challenge was going to be how not to add too much. Yeah. And that was I was trying to my brain was scrambled because it's like I'm meeting with him at the very tail end of the opportunity to train into season. So he only has like a couple of weeks and it's like the team's already doing their thing. So how can we compliment that? Yeah. And that's the other mistake that these young kids make. And I felt I had to communicate to him in the first like, you know, 15 to 30 minutes that he was there with. This is like, I know right now like, you're super motivated to do whatever it is. We'll tell you to do and you just want to get better.  Like you're just going to hammer the body so much that you and you're doing more so you think you should get better from it. But we'll actually potentially especially be super like motivated and wants to work hard. Yeah. It's a hard message. Dude, he looks great. Like last time I saw him I was like trying to tell him like, man. And that's where I get excited because I can see like all this motivation is coming from him. It's there's no outside influence of like push him in that direction. He wants it. Yeah. I'll go protein powder, creatine, if he's not already taken it and then organ complex. That's what I would. I actually didn't think I thought creatine and protein powder but actually organ complex. You know that, you know, I think I I know I've brought this up on the show. You know that that organ supplements like liver tablets was a staple in bodybuilding. Oh, it was a staple for a long time up until the fifties bodybuilders would take five to 10 desiccated liver tablets with every meal and they swore by the effects that they had was drinking cream and all that was that before that with like the Eugene Sandow days or was that Oh no, they would also do that heavy cream heavy cream whole eggs, you know, all those foods and they would also the way they would get lean is they would actually watch carbohydrates. This was old time bodybuilders limit this they would say limit the starches and the sugars and that's all they would do to get lean now they didn't get shredded but they got pretty lean you know, they got really okay, so you have to talk about this bear serum because I just did a little bit of reading up on that article bear serum and tell me sounds all right this being the next kind of crazy performance Oh no, like Deer Antler No, no, no, no, no, this is legit now it doesn't exist stop, stop Oh no, it's legit okay, it's here it doesn't exist yet so everybody relax it doesn't exist go online and look up bear serum for muscle building no, no, no, so scientists right now are studying so bears when they hibernate which is fascinating how some animals hibernate right, bears when they hibernate lose a very minimal amount of muscle mass for the especially when you well when you consider the fact that they're doing nothing all for months they're literally sleeping in hibernation for months they come out they lose a lot of fat they should have atrophied they lose a lot of fat but the muscle I mean it like sticks around and so what they're trying to do is they're trying to isolate what is happening in the bear's body that prevents this muscle loss while they're totally inactive and so they're calling it bear serum like if we can figure this out and put this together oh fascinating then we may be able to use it on ourselves which I the applications medically are huge right like you're you're bedridden or you're injured or you broke your leg inject you with this thing ultimate muscle preservation I don't know dude I think the I think the the pigs that adapt in in the from the wild from from domestic get all hairy and tusks yeah I think that to me there's more aggressive that's way more progressive you know what I'm saying if you could all sudden go from being a domestic werewolf serum as well yeah bro that's like you know what I'm saying all of a sudden you grow tusk imagine what that could possibly do well I don't know man you put us in the wilderness and if we don't die because we don't know what the hell we're doing I think we'll look pretty different in a couple of months probably looks like the amount of beard in our hair isn't in here Lord of the flies I survive but yeah so if they can identify this it'd be pretty be pretty rad yeah that's interesting plus it's from a bear interesting that's a cool animal dude speaking of dude I have a video I think I sent it to the group I don't know if Doug can pull it up so you know how they have they're making these like autonomous you know machines and one of them looks like a dog and it walks around and you've seen them before right where they jump on Boston Dynamics bro they put a machine gun on one and a shotgun on one and this little thing I mean did you ever question that was like of course I knew that was gonna happen it's the natural progression but oh no the first plate I mean bro it's fucking terrifying you gotta watch the video well I know okay it's like a dog walk around me let me see the video now isn't I mean isn't what funds most of this stuff like for military purposes of course yeah I was gonna say Boston Dynamics all that stuff is I think for military purposes right that's so can I because I will that's the application I wonder if here's I'm imagining a war of the future right a war of the future would be machine versus machine and then once the machines are destroyed is the next level now human you know what I mean like what do they do remember okay if you go far enough back when we mind pump I theorize that it would be like video games yeah but what if you lose in that does that mean you lose like your champions right yeah I like to do nobody's gonna agree to that though yeah I know what do you mean you're not gonna if okay oh we lost oh great okay listen okay listen if you think about a us as an evolved species look at look at look at it's good it's a freaking dog with a machine gun head bro that sucks crazy you imagine that thing just coming out listen though if you think about you think about okay there was a time okay think about this when we used to go to war and we'd line up 10 yards from the other guys last each other yeah and blast each other like that so we've obviously progressed from that and it's gotten it's gotten more and more separate and distant why would we not eventually progress to a time where we agree that like why we can have this disagreement because that's the opposite of the way that war progresses the wars progress and become we become more efficient at killing more destructive we don't want the other direction it goes in the direction of yeah like it used to be harder to kill someone you have to deal if that was the case like there's less destruction but there's more like so it's like in the virtual setting where you're like disputing it well what if that's what future like peace treaties look like I just don't see the peace treaty in the future is this listen we're not agreeing whoever won Mario 3 you're like yeah yeah yeah dude let's go you don't say like I don't know because you still are you're still battling in a sense because it's it's our our intelligence that built that our strategy that has to go to war and do that with these machines I wish but could you imagine do you really think we would do that like let's say we go to war with China and we're like okay we agree to a virtual war whoever wins wins the war and then we do it by China they win all the games all the video games do we get around hey so fuck hey but just do you guys but hold on maybe that's why hey the U.S. will be the reason why we don't do that oh that's not true yes it is oh we have the best we have some of the best video game players I mean they happen to be from China but they're into I think Korea would kick everybody's ass what's that was that meme that the spelling bee no it was like the math champions yeah the math the U.S. math champions and they're like they're all Asian kids yeah it's like hey that's America bro America is everybody anyway I can't imagine another country losing and be like ah we lost you guys when they'll be like nah fuck you I know we lost but let's just we're not gonna do what you say but also we still have missiles yeah I don't see that happening at all at all but it's it is kind of terrifying to see there was a black mirror episode where there was like a AI dog that was like chasing someone around and trying to kill them oh I just saw that one well that shit's gonna happen well what do you think though I mean in terms of like we we created space force right for a reason and there's lots of satellites and you know this protective kind of zoning of now of like beyond earth like we're like how are we gonna manage people from occupying the moon for instance and then you know if we keep expanding our way out well the way we did it look like with the way there's a treaty but yeah and the tree is we're gonna hold up to that nobody puts a like a base on the moon but that's because if you do that that's a declaration of war so if you do that now we're going to war so if a country does that they're basically saying they're going to war but in agreement where we're like hey if you if your favorite champion beats our favorite champion then we'll give in and you guys win I don't think that'll happen I think we'd lose I don't think we would accept it would you accept it oh man we lost now we're communists no everybody be like man man your social credit system to deal with sorry I know we lost but we give it well we're taking it back you guys have to come in here and fight us now well I don't think okay so that's fair that's a fair point like if someone tried to conquer us and take over our land and be and that we like I don't think we would stand for that but then the conflict is normally not over that right it's normally over trade or goods or that always escalates dude but that's just it depends on who's in escalates because we don't have like a more you know less aggressive way to settle it like if we could just say like if it was like over trade right or tariffs or something like that it's like we're gonna enforce these no you're not we're gonna go to you know what might work I got an idea what might work this would never happen by the way but let's just say the whole world was in on it and they said okay and they were the referee so and it's like you know it's like one country against another and then they have to go in this virtual world whoever loses loses but if they go back on it now the whole world declares war on the loser hey you didn't follow the rules I'm sorry but but even then I okay I'm gonna use an American example because I know Americans I am an American we're we get a virtual war and the whole world is the referee and we agree all right if we lose we'll give in and we lose you know what we're gonna say no sorry we're not gonna give in I didn't sign that yeah well I mean oh and by the way we all have guns depends on what because like you said bringing back to like we're not gonna give in and then say and then become a communist nation like that like that was the war like oh China's saying hey we're gonna we're gonna go to war with you in this virtual world if we win we get to we get to dictate how your countries ran like no I'm thinking it's over more you know you know in the past there have been situations like that just to avoid greater carnage but on a large scale it's never worked but there has been in the past like duels you know back in the day yeah you had families that hated each other and instead of going out and all out feud where they kill each other like one guy walks up to the guy said all right let's do a duel and then that'll end it now sometimes it didn't sometimes it was you guys I was watching they still do that over like an Ireland or whatever with that with like families oh you mean the the travelers yeah you got an issue with another family but they kept going back and forth though even them and it spurred a murder and one of them or whatever so even then I don't know man human behavior we're back to human behavior yeah we're not the greatest hey speaking of behavior and weird changes and stuff is it true that BMW is going to this may be a sign of the time a sign of the times in the future they're gonna start charging you a monthly fee for your heat cedar your your your seat heater excuse me to work so okay I heard this what I know and I actually think this is nickel and diamond the hell out of us yes I think this okay listen does EA own BMW one of the most brilliant one of the most brilliant services I've ever seen created is dog kennels now that have these cameras on your dogs the entire time and you have all these a la carte options that you can do at when you want to do it right so you you pay your $25 a day to have your dog stay here but then if I want a a tummy rub for my dog at three o'clock in the afternoon I can pay $3 if I want my dog to go for are you serious a play date with another dog I can pay $4 this is hilarious yeah this is and you have control you can watch and everything like that and it's brilliant right because because you know dog owners are doing this like crazy and then if they don't want to they just want the service they can be those people too yeah and I think the future of these cars especially like Tesla's BMW is going this direction now is you have a base model car that you pay only certain amount of money but then all the upgrades are controlled digitally that they can also do oh you want your self-driving automation upgrade to your car that's all a car you can run it just one time and use it for this drive and so it's $17 make sure this was an Apple's idea because dude they they always do that with their products like well I wouldn't be surprised never I told you like add-ons I told you Apple Apple Car Play is going to be one of the most revolutionary things you know why this is you know why this is so weird to me is because it's never been this way with your seat getting heated yeah but there there has been expectations you buy I mean you have to pay for it exactly so think about it like okay what you're reading into right now what you say makes well that lower the price of the of course yeah so you would buy it so this would now become a baseline BMW option that option that can be upgraded for a monthly service okay that makes something like that bro what if it's like this what if you could pay to like get the 500 horsepower that you want that's gonna happen too you know what I'm saying because it's all driven a lot by the chips anyway well this is so what's gonna happen you're gonna be like oh I'm gonna pick those up when you have it's upload you're going on a day you're like I'll pay the upgrades you see how Tesla we're like the the latest Tesla model X has done that already where a a new upgrade comes out and it automatically boosts your your horsepower by 20 30 horsepower but do you have to pay for it or no it's just like automatic that's but that model like a year or two go it's guaranteed but I do believe that they're going away from that that the upgrades you will have to pay for actually now that you explain like that makes a lot of sense because if you can lower the price point of entry for getting a vehicle and then like as they acquire more money to I mean it's it's brilliant yeah and it's accessories accessories it's a win for the consumer and it's and it's a win for the business that makes sense because they can then get you in at a lower entry level and so they're like oh I can own a BMW now because it doesn't have all these options but then when you want those specific options you can choose to have those upgraded in there can you know now I don't know about you guys but all I can think of right now so when I was when we were kids remember how you had to pay extra for HBO and Cinemax and Pay Per View and then remember how you could buy a box and put it on your TV and we'll always be hackers that's what I'm thinking right now sure there's gonna be a black market where you bring possibly they all get the base model you scratch your head Doug well I mean if you wanted heated seats in your car they have to put in the mechanisms to already built in already built in so that's an expense so you're gonna pay for that when you buy the car well they don't give you essentially paying for heated seats when you buy the car yeah they have to put in the mechanism yeah and now you're paying a subscription on top of that yeah Doug's right well I think well or they factor that in and they don't give you access to turning it on well yeah but they still have to have the mechanism which is an expense or what happens Doug yeah they're gonna have to wrap that in the total price or because of the subscription services that offsets the cost of putting them in the car yeah so they could lower it for people who don't use it that's what I would think might work out well of course BMW is gonna make more money doing this or else they wouldn't do it yeah well they're gonna test of course they're gonna test it I'm sure they are I could see hackers though I'm all about like if I buy the car and I own it and I don't have to take it in like as a lease and they whatever I'll take the basic look how thinking it may end up being like a wash look how quickly Apple trained all of us to lease our phones you know what though that's because it was a new market imagine if we see the thing about car market is that's such an old market that you're gonna have to retrain the consumer you know what I mean heated seats are not are not an old market heated seats have not been around that long they've been long enough to where if you have it you have it like no one's ever had to pay a subscription service for it before oh I mean there's probably a lot of people that don't have heated seats in their car right now bro well look not every fucking they were telling me it's a luxury car here's why I kind of agree with you because people buy bottled water like that was a joke literally 20 years ago 25 30 years ago it would have been a joke if you said you could sell everybody to buy water because it was free basically and now everybody buys bottled water so that's why I kind of agree with you I could see I just see where okay our cars are becoming more and more like computer systems 100% and it's a tech piece of tech yes they're becoming more and more like a piece of tech that from from away from the car somebody else a hub can add or take away things and so it only makes sense that we would move into this direction of here's your baseline vehicle that you paid for and then it has all of these potential things that you could turn on whenever you want and then you pay all the car yeah that makes I could see it going in that direction did you see in Europe I don't know what country it was they passed a law that said any cars sold past I forgot what the date was has to be have be speed limited so that they can't go faster than the speed limit which makes logical sense just on a consumer basis though I can't imagine consumers wanting that shit I always thought that as a kid I'm like wait a minute they could put a speed limiter to make it not go faster than 130 why can't they do it to 65 so nobody speed that makes sense right and I think they would just crush the the ticket market or whatever the that's exactly who wants that car yeah but there's countries the and I forgot where it was in Europe they were passing that so with with cars like this I could see that of course where now the government's going to step in is like oh you can't accelerate past this point you can't go past the speed if you get pulled over police has access to your car so as soon as they want to pull you over they will push a button stop your car and then that's well you see now too the what is sure I'm going with like hot rods I'm going to buy a horse yeah you see what insurance companies try to stop your your car insurance companies are doing now too where you have this like adjustable car insurance based off of how you drive because track all your driving patterns how often do you speed or the speed limit if you stop but stop signs like how often you actually drive throughout the day like all that stuff gets it's thrown into an algorithm and spits off like oh this person should only be getting charges and then you'll be able to get a kick back on your insurance speaking of tech and stuff I am trying to find a way to put prx in my garage because I have an old rack in there yeah but in the garage that that I have this the walls have a bunch of storage cabinets and the back wall has got some pipes and stuff and so I don't know where I can put the prx cage but I I think I may take off some of the side storage because I can't use my garage I don't park any of my cars in the garage I just have my gym in there that's such I'm so it's so mad about that I'm sorry I know I'm so disappointed at you when I see that too hey man I was looking at your car I was looking at your car yesterday I was looking at your car yesterday I was looking at your car yesterday I was looking at your car yesterday I was looking at your car yesterday first of all first of all park out here in this parking lot over here for whatever reason I don't know what plants they have out there I don't know there's some over there two seconds after they're washed they're covered in I know in pollen and stuff so I don't know but yeah I but I want I want I want that rack in the in my garage because I can't use it I can't use it if I had a prx I'd be able to use it I could fold it in well one cool thing I saw that they did because there was like a problem with like the the models where your ceiling wasn't quite as high so say they're like eight foot not like the 10 foot like clearance like that's what happened in my old house and it was it was a bummer I had to like I didn't realize that I had to like send it back because I couldn't pick it because it has to go up to be able to go into the wall so what they did so I couldn't get the one that had the the pull-up bar attachment so now they actually have like engineered like a way that you can you can bolt that into the wall so you can still put your rack up but then you keep the actual attachment on the wall for your your pull-ups oh that's cool so it kind of solves that probably you have like lower ceiling you still want to pull it I also like that they're I like their rack better than a standard it's more stable it's more stable way more stable it's the most stable rack I've ever used I mean I remember being so skeptical when we first started working with him like same am I gonna like this am I gonna load 300 pounds on this and make it yeah and you know shame on me for not like like it's very it's pretty basic physics when you think about everything that's attached to the wall plus the support of the arms when it comes down I think it's stable as shit dude I and I love the fact that it literally I mean that's how much it takes up on my garage yep I so I can fit my truck in the garage which is super long compared to the other cars like and you have a full gym yeah I love that man I mean it's it's for sure been one of the one of the best inventions as far as garage gym stuff that to be because that's one of the I mean forever I've always been hesitant about building a garage because our gym inside my garage because I've always wanted my cars in there I love being able to pull into a garage and be out of the weather and have your car in there plus I don't know if you guys have ever had a time in your life where you've had a car for a long period of time that never was garage and then a car that has been garage it the longevity of your car when you park in the garage is crazy difference like you park a car out your paint job and everything yes all the time oh the interior I mean it just wears on a car being beat down by the sun all day long and all the weather versus being parked in a garage I swear you get like 10 more years of the vehicle by just parking every day in a garage so I'm trying to figure out how I can put that in there hey check this out look I'm a dad and I'm also a health and fitness enthusiast so my children's health is very important to me especially my young young children so I have a a almost 20 month old child and I got a baby on the way and when I give them baby food I go to Serenity Kids this is the best stuff so it's the nutrient dense there's no sugary fruits there's healthy fats they're ethnically sourced meats bone broth purees they have grain free puffs meat and veggie pouches A2 whole milk toddler formula like this is like the best stuff you can give your kids healthy high protein no grains and a lot of the stuff it's good stuff it's the only baby food I give my son and I'm gonna give my infant daughter when she's born go check this company out it's the best go to myserenitykids.com that's M-Y-S-E-R-E-N-I-T-Y kids.com and then use the code M-P-2-0 M-P-20 for 20% off your first order all right here comes the rest of the show our first question is from Bill Cutmore how long does it take to build muscle mass uh-oh approximately 13 years yeah very specific whoa tough you know now all things being equal meaning you have an appropriate effective workout program on a good diet good sleep like all things being equal your genetics play a huge role in how quickly this can happen so it's a very tough question to ask but generally speaking it's a slow process because uh you are asking your body to add or to increase upon its requirements for energy in other words it's going to need more calories going to need more nutrients and your body doesn't do that willy-nilly also generally speaking you tend to build muscle faster when you first start working out then later on so you get this like real quick response a lot of people refer to that as newbie gains and then it really starts to slow down and the longer you work out the slower and the harder it is to add muscle but from person to person boy this could vary it's not only a really slow process it also requires consistency with the diet and the training for a very long period of time all the components aligned at once yes if you're like in that sweet spot where you have everything like your recovery is super on point like the amount of stimulus you're providing your body is is adequate for for you to change your hormones are balanced like you know you're there's just so many the nutrition and all this stuff so like yeah if everything is stacked like completely perfect if for and you're stringing that out for a period of time that's you know super consistent like that's that's when you're going to see results a little bit quicker yeah but you have to so what do you when you when you guys think of someone like this who asked a question like this what do you see or like some of the the most common pitfalls or mistakes that a person like this normally makes in pursuit of that right I get a young guy who's like how fast could I pull 20 pounds of muscle or whatever and they want to know like all the well it's either inconsistency or it's over training yeah that's have to be the two biggest ones right and that's exactly where I was going was so and this is the mistake I even made as a as a young kid trying to to build muscle too is that you know I I didn't realize how important it was for me to every day in day out be hitting my protein intake and then also being in a calorie surplus a majority if not all the time and then also being very consistent with the workouts and when one or two of those things are not consistent you could literally go a month or two of training and see very little to no progress or backwards yeah the what people need to realize is that your body's always in a muscle protein breakdown stage where you're losing muscle or in a positive you know protein synthesis stage where you're adding muscle and the process of building muscle is essentially when the positive protein synthesis outweighs the negative so even if you build muscle it's not always that you're building muscle you're still going through processes of losing it's just that the building outweighs the losing so that's kind of what it looks like also it's you don't build muscle it's not linear it's not a consistent linear thing if you were to look at like you take somebody who worked out for five years who gained let's say 15 pounds of muscle if you looked at when they gain that muscle it looks like blocks of time like oh here's where I gain three pounds and then nothing for a while and then oh I gain another one and then nothing for a little while so it's not like this I you know I gained 15 pounds over the course of two years which equals out to a quarter pound of muscle every week or whatever it doesn't work out that way it's like a spurt of growth and then plateau and maybe some going backwards well even then you get challenges if you have like these big periods of growth because now you have to be able to support that growth right you know and so like if you're just applying the same hammer to get you more growth you're gonna run into problems where it's like okay now my joints are screaming at me and my ligaments and everything else are you know like too uh you know tensed up and and there's too much demand there so where I need to reinforce that so now my focus has to be elsewhere to be able to support this to then add upon of what I ever received so to your point Sal this is one of the reasons why I uh I like this like psychological game that I've I play with myself when I'm trying to sound really bad right my delivery would you play with yourself the psychological game is not me playing with myself it's literally challenging myself put on a wig as it rolled off my tongue I was like damn that didn't sound that didn't sound the way I want it to sound okay we all do it no I I challenge myself with because I know how important the consistency with the workout is I know how slow the process is and I know how important the consistency with the diet portion is that all three of those have to be aligned and consistently aligned and the reality is that many times in a journey towards a goal like this one or two of those things fall off here and there so I I challenge myself this way where I say okay I diet and training all all going to be consistent and I'm going to try and be perfect for x amount of days and I start with small goal this week you know this week is going to be a great week and so and then maybe I have a day where oh man I didn't hit my protein and take and and to your point I'm going backwards I'm either I'm either building or I'm or I'm or I'm losing if I don't hit my protein and take I miss day training I'm going the opposite direction I'm not building and I'm not sending the signal I'm not building at that time I'm going the opposite direction if I always want to be progressing I need to keep stringing more these days okay so I made seven days the new goal is eight days can I string now eight perfect days in a row and then I go oh maybe I not only go eight I actually carried it all the way to 17 days and then I have my first you know day of missing nutrition and my first couple days of missing the gym oh shoot instead of beating myself up okay now 17 was the new record let's see if I can beat that let's see if I can beat that and I just keep playing this this game of challenging myself with being more consistent with that stuff and then that's to me when I started to see like the muscle starting to pack on because I was starting to string more and more consistent blocks of not missing on my nutrition and not missing on my training and then it started to compound because if you go into it like oh I heard that you can gain you know eight to ten pounds of muscle a month or what like that and then you and or you do the other angle which is like well I'll do more you know I'm gonna train harder and hopefully it's all about intensity and you think that's the way you're gonna build more muscle you get stuck in these traps and these plateaus that you can't get out of and you can't figure out why because you're working hard now my experience I love your guys' input on this and I'm gonna refer to the this is the average person so I'm not talking about the the freaks right the genetic freaks so the average person I would say for a man on average doing most things right okay most things right working out right eating pretty good for the most part getting good sleep appropriate training intensity volume I would say the average man could probably gain anywhere in the first year of training anywhere between I don't know maybe 10 to 10 to 14 pounds of muscle something around that right for the first year if they do everything right for a full year for a woman it's probably around four to eight pounds of muscle in that first year would you guys say that I think that's super accurate you think that's pretty accurate I think it's super accurate and don't be discouraged if you're a young guy or girl who's wanting way more than that because the difference that's the first year by the way after that I didn't have and also 10 pounds of lean body mass it looks really different on the body yeah okay so and the likelihood if you gain 10 pounds of muscle you probably also put you know three to five pounds of fat along the way so now you're 15 pounds well that's where those 20 pound you know like we'll get that sometimes like I gained 20 pounds of you gotta just decipher like what was lean mass versus like you know what you actually packed on to that was and there's also water I could I could make my body now right now I've already done this I can make my body weight fluctuate by five to six pounds of water very easily yeah very easily and when I have the extra six pounds of water I feel bigger my muscles feel more pumped it feels like muscle but I know it's water well you're also it's really important to note that what you talked about a beginner just starting right it's totally different than like I could put 20 pounds of muscle on a month right now well you because you got that muscle memory right because I am way under what I've you've had it before I've had way more muscle on my body than I have currently right now I'm nowhere near dialed in either both consistency training or eating yeah if you went super aggressive if I turn it on it was perfect over the next month I could I could shift my weight and that's what we see a lot of times on these advertising this bullshit that's why I wanted to bring it up like me who's got 20 years plus of training has built his body up to the the pinnacle of bodybuilding physique and then is now kind of falling out of shape in comparison to that and I'm significantly my muscle mass is probably somewhere around 180 maybe even 170 right now lean body mass yeah lean body mass and I've been as high as 205 and lean body mass even a little bit higher than I think 210 when I was at my feet at the very least you could add 10 pounds of lean body mass a month like that like that because I had it before so that's and so when you see those those transformations like that and you don't know all those factors you have to and it wasn't the supplement he took it wasn't the workout routine necessarily that he did it's just that you have to factor all that stuff but yeah that first year the numbers I gave earlier is if you do everything right you'll probably fall and I say probably because some people will be less some people might be a little more most people will be somewhere in the middle of what I said you'll probably fall within that range the second year far less so if you gained you know 13 pounds of lean body mass and you're a man that first year and you did everything right and you're not a teenage kid we're going to gain weight anyway or whatever that next year you might do three pounds or four pounds of lean then the third year maybe a couple pounds or none and then after that it's a struggle for every pound of lean body mass and for a woman you know same thing that first year most of my female clients if they did everything right I'd be able to put a good five six pounds of lean body mass on them and that first like real pure lean body mass not body fat water but actual in that first year now I've also there are genetic anomalies out there I mean I've seen I've only trained a couple that I could really say or these are genetic freaks where the muscle just but that's not the average person so don't expect that no but I think the thing that's encouraging and why I was bringing up my point of being able to swing my my muscle mass that fast now is that the over a year and what that is is that you know at one point I probably had one of that that hyper growth years where I put on 10 to 15 pounds of muscle and then every year after that it was you know five more than five more than five more than five more and then here I am at 40 years old and I've been all the way up to 235 240 pounds and I can now drop all the way down to 190 200 pounds and lose a ton of muscle but then I can get it back really quick so even though it took years and years and years and years and years to to to add on the three to five more pounds three to five more pounds but once your your body has has carried that that that lean mass before obtaining it again gets easier and easier as you get older so there's even though it's a slow process initially to build all that muscle mass there's it gets better as you get older next question is from to rash can you explain carb cycling and its benefits can you fat cycle as well so carb cycling is really popular among stage presentation athletes like bodybuilders and physique competitors and bikini competitors I love it and they they tout it because they say it's effective for fat burning or you burn more body fat doing it that's not why I think it's effective I think it has more to do with the psychological effects of carb cycling because first off cutting carbs for calories to reduce your calories in my experience especially when you're tracking everything and you're you know lifting weights and all that stuff it's easier than cutting fat and definitely easier than cutting protein you don't want to cut protein in fact can be a little bit challenging to really cut because it's more satiating the carbs so people tend to mess with carbs carbs are also not essential you can get rid of them completely it's not going to kill you you can't do that with fat and with protein so why do they cycle it well higher carb days give you more energy your muscles fill out you're stronger you feel good in the gym you get a better pump when you drop the carbs you lose weight you look skinnier maybe you look leaner because you've got less water but then you're weaker less energy and so rather than always going low carb or always going particular way you cycle and they tend to try to target harder workouts with more carbs and they try to and you get to also satisfy that mental feeling of like you know when you call when you cut your calorie especially if you're you know body conscious and you don't like losing muscle you cut your calories and you cut your carbs you feel like you're shrinking that little carb up is a nice oh I feel better here's my pump oh I can see that what's what's working on my body so that's one of the main reasons why I think it's beneficial 100% agree with you the main thing is the psychological piece and you're right a lot of bodybuilders will try and make the case with what's going on with insulin and what's really going on more than anything is every third to fourth day depending on what your carb cycle looks like you get to refeed is that what yours was when you were so I actually I actually played around with that so that was the other thing I thought was really funny is there was kind of like this traditional way of every third day there was like a low carb day a medium carb day than a high carb day it's kind of like the traditional and I understood the science behind what was really going on and so there's nothing that stops you from going low low medium high or medium medium low high like you can play with it and all and I did I mess with all different ways and I really liked the fourth day being the refeed I could I like to push my I could push my body a little bit further on on the low calorie and then I would refeed on the fourth day I always tried to schedule it around like a big muscle group that I was training whether that was legs or back or something like that like so I wanted like my my maximal strength and calorie surplus at that time so I think it's the psychological part when you're when you're dieting for an extended period of time where you have to be in a caloric deficit and if you have the same macros the same everything day in and day out it just it gets it gets laborious and it gets tough to stick to forever where with the carb cycle it just gives you a break in the diet it feels like you know you get like the all sudden you get this day where you get an excess amount of carbs in comparison to the previous two or three or four days and it feels good and it's a nice little break I don't like although you could calorie-wise cycle fat I think it's a bad strategy I think most people that's mostly it's just calorie cycling at that point well yeah and it's essential like you said fat protein fat protein is essential the reason why they carb cycle carbs is because not essential you there's less there's less room for error when you're cycling fat or if you were to cycle you go too low on fat you're affecting your health and you're yeah you're gonna affect you can potentially affect hormones and you're not you're not gonna feel good and like it's and fat's very satiating in comparison in comparison to carbohydrates so I think it feels better to to reduce the carbohydrates than it would do to reduce fat which actually helps you stay satiated and you're when you're in a caloric deficit you want to try and feel as much satiated as you can when you're most of the time gonna fall from it I 100% agree I only did this I've done this a few times when I've gotten really lean and I like to do I only go I would do low low medium and then ahead of one high carb day and the reason why I didn't do it more frequently because I for me at least noticed that when I had the hike first off obviously the next day I had great workouts great pumps but when I would do it it would set my appetite off and then I'd have like a day or two afterwards where I'm like fighting my appetite so I'm like I don't want to do this every three days because this can be really so that's the greatest challenge with the carb cycle is the is the discipline after the refeed to not because you're that the next day is the hardest day because you you now give this refeed and it re kicks up that appetite again and then you and then you have this and by the way it's also psychologically challenging because you feel better and you look better better at the refeed so a lot of guys go like oh I'll do another day yeah you know what I'm saying and then the next thing you know you're back in a calorie surplus you're no longer in a deficit anymore so if you have the mental discipline to understand what is going on with the body why you feel that way why you look that way I liked it and I've had a lot of success it's typically if I were to go into a like real aggressive fat loss or cut right now I would lean towards a carb cycle I would first this first steps would be figuring out my balance because I have no idea what my caloric maintenance is right now not exactly what it is I would first just track and see where my maintenance is then once I figure out my calorie maintenance I would start off with an even ratio of carbohydrates and fats because it's just nice and balanced and then hitting my protein intake and then after I've got another week or so of that I would go okay now let's start manipulating carbohydrates and calories and then we'll start to cycle yeah I was always curious to kind of ask you guys because I didn't mess with any of this stuff really you do cheese cycling right it's cheese cycling I don't cycle I just keep it in the mix it's not any different he's always on the cheese bulk maybe like variety I'll cycle the variety but the whole concept of like carb front-loaded carb back-loading and all that like I remember I play with all that too okay so that's like carbs rolling the day carbs late in the day and again well what's the benefits so okay so again here's another another thing where we like to take a little bit of science and we run with it and then we try and make the case again if someone likes it it's a psychological it is exactly they try and make the case for the insulin levels and then like your body wanting to recover through the night and rest and that's when you should really be fueling it so that's why you back load carbohydrates blah blah blah and then other people like no don't raise I've heard that growth was always skeptical yeah it's to me all that stuff is all a bunch of bullshit and you're splitting hairs on the difference of it and it's really like what will you adhere to and what do you like the most and I played with both and the things that I didn't like about the back-loading and carbohydrates is I needed I shouldn't say I needed I felt better in my workouts when I front-loaded my carbohydrates when I and I've told this on the podcast before I've told you this morning when I were different I had it to I had it to a gram like I knew that 75 grams of carbohydrates if I had once I intake that I had the the best workouts like that for my body then like it's probably different now but then but if I had about 75 grams in it wasn't too much and it was just the right amount for me to have fuel an amazing workout so if I back-loaded carbs and let's say it's a day where I'm only eating 100 grams of carbs that means I'm not in breakfast not in lunch most of it's going to be happening in the late evening meal and dinner and I already had my workout at noon so my workouts would suck yeah this is where you and I are different I liked eating if I had a higher carb day in the evening because I slept better I would sleep better sleep better and have a big meal in the evening and I like to work out more you know relatively fasted that's where you went but again it feels psychological yeah but here's the thing though you're you're not back-loading as much as you think and I'm not front-loading as much you think because our workout times are so different you train really early in the morning right so if you load it up on carbohydrates late at night good point it's actually and you don't somewhat of a front-loading yeah you're he's fueled up for his morning morning breakfast or morning lift which makes a lot of sense why you call why you like that and it makes a lot of sense why someone like me who trained at two o'clock in the afternoon why I wanted the carbohydrates in the front and to me that is what matters more than what the argument that the geeks like to try and make of like what's going on with insulin and growth hormone and all that bullshit's like come on makes sense it's like when do you work out because if I have a shitty workout I'm less likely to push the intensity to hit PRs to finish the workout and that you want to time out your easily accessible energy source yeah and when you're training at that level where it's your job you're like you're competing it's your job you want to do everything you can to make your workout as perfect as possible and so that you know but I love talking about that stuff because these are all things I played with all that stuff four years of being fanatical about this stuff everything you can think of that some bodybuilder guy has pushed or talked about I have manipulated and played with and then like it took my own like okay I see why some people like this I understand why that like they and Sal says this a lot right like we just we've done a really it's got a bad name of bro science because the way they communicate it because they try and communicate it with insulin levels and growth hormone they try and sound really smart about it when it's just like okay that's splitting hairs what we're really talking about what's really more important is tell me how you felt when you when you at the way did you get a good ass workout from it did you feel really good from it because from a calorie perspective it's the same damn thing same thing whether you eat your 70 your 75 grabs a breakfast or you have it at dinner if it all equates out to the same amount of calories then from a fat burning perspective it's pretty much the same damn thing so that all that bullshit is out the window it really becomes was that can you be more consistent with that and are your workouts good with that next question is from I love t-shirt time more than he does I don't know it's his favorite time of the week is there a set point for our weight yes and no okay so here's the yes part you do have a genetic size obviously Justin Adam myself dug we're a certain height there's a certain I'm sure genetic limit to how much we can gain in terms of weight or lose and all that stuff so in that sense yes now here's the sense where it says no they've used this to sell people on the fact that you're not going to lose weight you're not going to do it you know it's not effective because your body has a body weight it wants to be at and that's the bottom line it's like a pain point thing it's not here's your here's your limitation not true obesity really is a new problem did all of a sudden we evolve the last couple generations to be super obese no that's just our lifestyle so the set point that people fight with now is really just their behavior and their lifestyles so we tend to go back to the behaviors and lifestyles that we're most used to so when you lose 20 pounds how do you do it you change your behaviors you change your lifestyle that's how you lose a 20 pounds why do you gain it back you go back to your old lifestyle and which takes you back to your old body weight that's where that comes from but it's not this like this block where it's like well hey I can't you know I can't lose 50 pounds because my body won't let me it's my set point no matter what I do my metabolism will adjust and my body's gonna work itself in a way no no that's just your behaviors John you just gotta fix your behaviors yeah yeah and then you're gonna end up well it really depends like this I've heard this question asked by several different types of clients so if you're the fat loss client that is really struggling with weight loss and you're you know 100 pounds or whatever you're way over way doesn't matter how much and you're curious do I have this set point the answer that Sal just gave is spot on it's the way I would be communicated to that client then I also get it sometimes from like the person who's trying to build muscle like the young kid who's trying to add a bunch of muscle and is wondering like am I just genetically screwed I'll never be this buff guy well you'll probably never be Arnold Schwarzenegger if you have this kind of ectomorph type of body semantotype and you are really really lean like you're probably not going to get all the way up there we have unless you use probably anabolic steroids even then yeah and even then probably not right but and we have what's the name of the calculator that we have for your muscle potential oh that's on our because there is there is a there is a I think maps macro.com will have a link so there is a generic number that we all have that is your natural you know potential potential muscle potential very few people are there okay most of us having unless you've been lifting for decades consistently you probably haven't reached that but yeah there is a there is a point where your skeletal system is not naturally going to want to put on any more muscle without using drugs that it's going to say this is kind of the not so if you're asking me about set point for that that's kind of where I'm going with that conversation is I'm going to explain muscle potential and that yeah we have we do have kind of a a limit there very few young people have come anywhere near it yet so I wouldn't be worried about that but then there's the fat loss community that wants to use the set point thing and that was well your body is just very good about finding its way to homeostasis and in trying to regulate everything so it thrives in the environment you present it with so you know a lot of a lot of the change has to be a constant staying ahead of the curve of of you know what your what stimulus you're applying to your body and so being consistent is definitely the biggest factor to that in terms of like you're reaching closer to your potential which most people don't even get close yeah because it's the consistency is the hardest thing but if you're talking to somebody that's been consistent for years and years and years but hasn't then also apply different stimulus different concepts taking their body and challenged it in a variety of different ways you know then that's also another way that you can kind of maybe like squeeze out even more from your body but it's the thing is you're always kind of battling your body's natural inclination to kind of bring things into its optimal like this is where we're we're we're best at yeah the problem is that is the question is point as if there's a point it's not it's a range yeah right you have it's moving a lot you have a genetic range you change all the time you have a genetic range for intelligence you have a genetic range for how good you're gonna be at basketball or chess or how fast you can run or how much weight you can gain or how much weight you can lose and it's a big range now what determines whether or not you're in the middle or on one extreme or the extreme your lifestyle now I'm I have a range for intelligence it's different than Einstein's range was for intelligence so can I achieve the types of feats of intelligence that Einstein had no but I have a potential and I probably haven't reached that potential right and I probably have a potential for obesity and muscle mass and health or poor health and it's your lifestyle that dictates that so I would say the more accurate way to ask this question is is there a set range for our weight in which case yes but that range is pretty damn massive like I'm pretty sure I could get my body weight down to 120 pounds if I really starve myself and I'm pretty sure if I really pushed it I could get my body weight up to 100 maybe 300 pounds if I really pushed it so let's just say that's my range right well how do I determine where I land within there that's my lifestyle next question is from Brett Richards 87 what are some training tips with a newborn yeah I would start with really lightweight then I'm very strong or stable at that age yeah really support the head really support the head as they're doing punches yeah I'm probably not teaching deadlifts yet don't probably probably way a little bit longer don't use them like a shake weight I heard that from that no obviously the question is as for the dad yeah I'm about to have a newborn shit I got like I got like three three little like three months before I got another one well I tell you what okay that's such a great point and one of the best things that you did was you've built one of the the best physiques you've had heading into it yeah so I'm gonna let myself go way down so like normal I mean I mean the truth is though I mean that's that's the that's the right it out from here dude that's a good strategy not that I think you should you know and not that you will either I know you like you're not going to like also do oh fucking write it off but the fact that you have have pushed and been as consistent as you have been with your diet and your training to get your physique to the level that it's at right now boy it gives you a lot more latitude I remember you did that with when you had max same thing yeah gave me a lot more latitude to kind of not stress if I didn't get a lifting day this week yeah I'd say the keys to consistency or training when you have anything in your life that makes it very challenging to be consistent with anything which a newborn is got to be one of the most challenging things there's so demanding right especially on mom but can be on dad too I think the key is that short small workouts when available is a really good strategy I like having a home gym or something like a suspension trainer or something where 10 minute bouts I could go and do two or three sets of an exercise whenever available versus I have an hour workout scheduled at these times because inevitably some things it's going to get in the way it's going to be very very difficult to do so the other thing is if you have a willing partner that you both schedule a couple workouts you do on your own and the other partner agrees okay your workouts are Tuesday and Thursday at this time minor Monday and Friday at this time you watch the baby I watched the baby and then you kind of make that happen but and then the third thing is acceptance accept the fact that you know whatever can go wrong will go wrong you're going to miss stuff and you got to be okay with that that's a tough one for me because it can be really hard I like I like the short workout hack I mean that's just one of those things where you alleviate a lot of the pressure of that feeling of like I didn't get a good workout in you know so what where's the value and to kind of string that out a bit to where you you you take it now to chunks of like you know five to 15 minutes like whatever you have available you know that day you look at it as an everyday thing instead of like I'm doing three days a week I'm going to the gym for you and I have these days in between where I'm kind of resting where like no this is just like if I have a moment I'm just going to find my way over to the equipment and I'm just going to get some reps in and then yeah everything else you kind of have to kind of concede the fact that you're a lot of what you want to happen is like you just got to throw that out the door and just be cool with you know being flexible and riding it out I mean I think you guys' advice is spot on both and Sal really all the things that you suggested as possibilities actually all happened for me yeah right and so I think that's another thing too is like it doesn't have to it doesn't have to look the same every week like there was times where Katrina and I actually you know bring and we still do this bring Max into the garage and we're working out as like a family together and like he's actually occupied kind of playing and doing his thing like you can do that they got a little pack in play you can throw it throw him in and do that we used to bring him down the gym everyone so sometimes we got an actual full hour workout and we would kind of you know if he needed a diaper changed I would go handle it why she did a set and then if he was being he wanted attention she would go give him attention that I would do and we kind of would ping pong for an hour and a half to two hours in the gym that was sometimes sometimes a workout like that then there was other times when it was just get it where you can and sometimes that meant I got three sets of squats that was my workout for the day and be okay with that I think that and if and if you it's not forever either by the way it's not permanent you're talking about six months to a year tops by by time they're a year and they're walking and they're they're playing like it's it's a whole different ball I always say that the first six months was like the twilight zone and then you're like you kind of start to see the light the tunnel eight months nine months and then one year it's like that was when it got really fun and I really really enjoyed fatherhood was hitting the one year and beyond so I think the the thing you got to be most careful with and I think is the most important piece of advice I know this is regarding working out but the truth is that's not where you're going to lose and where you're going it's going to be the nutrition and the lack of sleep is going to make that really challenging right so what happens when you when you get poor sleep it really ramps those cravings up and you're also kind of sedentary and you're not moving around and so it's real easy you start to have the fucking attitude yes you start to have the fucking attitude you start to make bad food choices and that's what will really backslide you that's what's really going to make you fall out of shape is not only missing your workouts but then also craving all these bad foods and indulging on this stuff and then also not moving around so being cognizant of that and knowing that hey I'm probably not exercising and moving as often as intensely so I really need to reign in my habits and behaviors around nutrition and keep that tight that is going to take you a long way the diet is where I see the biggest for sure for myself especially it's going to be the diet because a workout is a workout that's 30 minutes or an hour you eat all day breakfast lunch dinner maybe snacks and that's when you're at home and you're with the baby and you're tired and it's like yeah I'll have some cookies yeah that's ordered some door dad yeah and wife is tired you're tired so maybe you're not we're not cooking you're not cooking and prepping your meals so you're eating out so you know you got to make better choices but you know some here's some I guess some words of encouragement the amount of training that you need to do to keep or at least maintain muscle and strength is way less than whatever it took to gain so you know the whole like leading into it with by training hard it's kind of a strategy because whatever you build going into it you know let's say I work out five days a week for an hour five days a week and now I'm in the situation where I don't I can't train nearly as much well two days a week will probably keep everything that I gained or I'll lose very little right with just two days a week so keep that in mind as well however long that season is which could be anywhere from six months to a year you don't need to train a lot to kind of keep what you've built or at the very at the least you'll lose a little bit not much not going to go away the diet will be the most important thing because where you would fall off big time and lose a lot is if you don't hit your protein intake you're eating your your intake you're over consuming calories right so you're over consuming carbohydrates and fat you under consume on protein and your volume of training grossly reduced then you can see a massive swing in what your physique will end up looking like as a as a new dad right now whereas if you just keep the keep the diet and check hit your protein intake and then make an effort to touch touch some weights you know as frequently as you can throughout the week but don't beat yourself up if you don't get those like Justin's saying those regimen hour routine three days a week it doesn't got to look like that you know just touch some weights and be good about the way you eat and don't over consume and you'd be surprised how much you'll be able to maintain excellent look if you like our show if you like our advice go to mindpumpfree.com and check out our guides we have guides that can help you with any fitness goal fat loss muscle gain mobility we have guides for personal trainers too it's mindpumpfree.com you can also find all of us on social media so Justin is on Instagram at Mind Pump Justin Adam is on Instagram at Mind Pump Adam and you can find me on Twitter at Mind Pump Sal how do I incorporate cardio and not lose muscle seen people do this before where they'll start to lose the sharpness of their muscles or they'll start to lose the sculpt a little bit and that's disheartening but if you do it right then you minimize that muscle loss or that metabolism slowdown in fact if you do it right you can actually speed up your metabolism at the same time that you build stamina and endurance you just have to be able to kind of program it properly and the way to program it improperly is just go do it as much cardio as you can for as long as you can right