It seems good to see you again and welcome our guests to the to the meeting We we have antson that's with us and he's not muted so he's good to go and Abbey's and and Jean is with us. So we may as well get started and I I thought antson this morning We'd get an update in regards to the the dairy pricing Situation and and how you guys were, you know, you the administration What your thinking is and putting together a plan of some type To help these guys out Um, I know you've got a copy of what we talked about and I think michael sent you a copy, right? And this is the one that I think maybe the the house hadn't talked about yesterday. Is that the one with the with the three tier and the sort of the Yeah, yeah, I got a chance to look at it quickly overnight and and thank you for that So, um, you wanna take sure Sure. Well, um, thank you, mr. Chairman and thank you Other members and the public that's joining us on this. I think I want to begin with just talking about The three approaches that are going to help our farmers So the first approach is, you know, we've been, you know, right from the get go with following What's happening on the at the federal level as they rolled out some programs through the care package So let's talk about what's happening on the federal level just for a moment There's a number of things that they're working on They have usda has announced that they will have direct payments to dairy farmers They're beginning to put that program together And the goal is sometime in may that usda through fsa Will get those payments to dairy farmers across the country They're also working on a surplus of food through the surplus food program They announced this week usda Is going to purchase another 120 million dollars a worth of food And 120 million dollars and I should say that's just for dairy It's called their fresh buy program and they're also working on a box program as well And the agency with trevor lull who works with the education department Has been working with potential vermont vendors that could help supply those boxes With vermont terry. So that program is is being put together as well We also have heard a lot about the couple of programs through sba and the federal program The economic injury disaster one program This week they announced that Agriculture was now eligible for that That's a 60 billion dollar program and they opened it up just to agriculture this week They were put at the front of the line because Enter before Before before you go on with that answer. Are you getting Is somebody in the agency mailing This notice out to all the small firms or all the firms that could possibly qualify for that Yeah, I think working with the congressional delegation and thanks to the congressional delegation We've done a lot of messaging right out of the right out of the box on that get the information to To our farmers We've been using mostly through the digital way of every possible platform. We can get it to folks to to do that Sba gave us a heads up. It was coming so we were ready to do the messaging on that So that's one thing that and we're encouraging and sba has told us that Farmers need to get in line for that. Don't wait because the money again could run out But right now it's it's just open to agriculture right now for for signing up Also the ppp program. We've talked about that a little bit the big tech protection program is another program to the Through sba that is being rolled out as well Just quickly On Question for you answer. Yeah, I guess I wanted to fuller answer to the chair's question. So you're not mailing it directly Can you just tell us more concretely? Well, I think how do we think farmers are hearing about this? I think they're hearing it through our listserv We have a we have a very big listserv through the agency that Diane Boffel sends out. We put it on facebook. We've got it on twitter We've done all those type of things also it's been amplified by a number of of our partners Through, you know working lands through all the people that are involved in agriculture to message that it's out there So we think that's the the quickest way to do it We don't do a lot of you know, direct mail these days out of the agency, but we do You know, add your views a monthly publication. That's mainly the having to be used for communicating with our farmers, but the timeliness of that is is is a little difficult, but How about the the Franklin? What's the saint albus messenger some of the regional papers? I know there was a press release that was put out by sba on that. So whether they picked up or not I'm not sure the the farm groups like rovermont Farm Bureau all those folks are tuned. They're all they're all on our our list for distribution and we've we've They should have gotten the notice from us that they Because I was talking with a farmer yesterday from holland And he didn't know He didn't know anything about it and he milks a hundred cows. He's a small farm But he didn't know anything about it and I got it through my emails from sba so I I've been chatting with him about how to keep him going And so I called him and told him that he whined, you know the website and all that stuff they wanted to get on to it because You know that that would pay him six a thousand dollars a week That of course they aren't getting through their milk chat. So Right and we can and we can we can we can blast out some more information as well to keep messaging at the folks and if anyone has one that A constituent or a farmer that we want some personal attention from us. We can we can help them as well Yeah I just wanted to maybe Define the situation that that our dairy farmers are in right now So and I'm going to I'm going to boil it down to To a gallon. So I think we all purchase our milk by the gallon or board or So forth. So, you know and these are averages So I preface that this is the average every farmer is different the cost of production for every farm could be different but if we take You know the cost of production for the most part of the northeast is about 20 dollars per 100 late Well, that's about a dollar 70 per gallon It takes a farmer produce for every gallon that they produce it takes about a dollar 70 to produce it Right now the forecasting is that they're going to get about a dollar per gallon So there are they are faced with losing about 70 cents per gallon that they produce So you multiply that in the thousands of gallons that farmers Are producing each day and you get a pretty clear picture Of the devastation that they're facing over the next few months of the forecast to come through So for every every gallon that they are producing on the farm right now The forecasting is showing And this is an average that they're losing about 70 cents per gallon when they make it So I think that sort of gives a perspective of of the situation that our dairy farmers are in right now We have been working with a number of private foundations as well A supplement to see if we can get some micro grants out as well Working with the Vermont community foundation today We are we are announcing a program With the help of several partners including dairy farmers The Vermont community foundation Commonwealth dairy hood and Booth brothers and DFA of st. Alvin's We have received the agency has put together a program working with these partners to purchase milk that likely would have been disposed of And and not found its way to the market So we're going to take that milk this week. It's being delivered to the food bank being processed into gallons And that milk will be distributed to the Canadian Vermonters that needs some nutrition and also commonwealth. We're also going to produce some yogurt That will be distributed as well We're grateful for the the private contribution By the Vermont community foundation and president and smith For putting that grant together with us and giving us some dollars to the farmers being paid There's been some Donations as well as long on the way but we think that's a good program and we hope to keep that program going That helps the farmer because that milk is not being disposed of It's it's it's getting it's also getting somewhere where's needed. So that's sort of the private aspect of it We're working on working with private partners. And then as you mentioned the top senator We are working Trying to develop a state program as well Like your your committee and members of the legislature The governor has repeatedly stated that Agriculture is very important to the state He knows that our agriculture community is hurting our dairy farmers are hurting And we are in the stages of trying to stand up a program To provide some relief to to dairy farmers through this process but You know if we know the problem And we know How much they're losing and we know how much money we've got um Why can't we set up a program? I think I think we're headed to set up a program senator I I don't think I can announce one today But I think all the energy is is is focused on that we've had very good conversations with the commerce Agency as well You know they're sort of taking the lead and we've been working with them On a on a program that will help our dairy farmers We've been talking with dairy farmers as well. They've been weighing in on on the need and and so forth. We've been talking with them We've been talking with policy makers as well. So I think you know It's something that we just got to work our way through we know the we know the urgency that it is out there This is not something that we're going to You know wait a few months to roll out if we if we get to the point where we can do something We want to get something out to the dairy community and the agri-positive community Is as quickly as possible because there are other people outside People that are milking cows and and sheep and goats that are in this line as well We've got to think about the businesses that rely on dairy as well We know it's a billion dollar year business So you've got businesses that are connected to dairy farming include stores You've got the people that supply the farmers with Products we got feed we got seed we got fertilizer All that is is is at risk if we do not get some Dollars to our dairy farmers. So we're working on a plan We're just not ready for you know prime time at this at this point But we've got a couple more steps that we need to work through and and we look forward to having conversations with your committee and others that can stay government Yeah, brian Thank you, mr. Chair. I appreciate being uh here this morning and listening to anansin's report the diversion of the milk to the food banks And you mentioned that it's being paid for partially I guess by grants and private donations To to what extent is that falling short of allowing All that milk to get rather than getting dumped. It's very good news to hear that it's getting to a food bank And then I have another question too, but I'm just curious Is there state money is is part of the cares money already helping with that? The cares money is is not part of this. This was this initial roll out is being financed by private dollars to the foundation Um, they have they've got a program going that they're raising money through their organization to try to help with your relief And they've agreed to give us a 60 thousand dollar donation to begin To get this program up and running. We know it We know there's going to be more need both from the public for nutritious milk and yogurt So we hope to build on that if other partners want to jump on board and If they want to contribute money to the Vermont community foundation, they have They have a program where they accept a donation. So we hope to keep it going This is the we've got all the players together to get this Moving as you can well imagine, it's it's a little bit of it's a little complicated of Processing and distribution, but we're pretty proud of all the people that Stood up quickly and and and decided this is this is the way to go The other question I had mr. Secretary and it may be Abby could answer it or certainly Diane could When we got together last We still were hearing that there were supermarket chains that had Signs up that said that you could only buy a certain amount of milk or dairy products Is that still an issue or has have we've been able to sort of let Vermonters know they can buy as much as they possibly can Yeah, we I'm not hearing your answer Yeah, you're there. Okay, uh senator. We've done a lot of work with the on the retail side We blasted out a letter to every retailer in remod asking them, please do not limit dairy purchases We are hearing anecdotal evidence from time to time that some of those signs are still up um, and We're trying to just you know, take it case by case basis So if people do hear that that's happening, you know, let us know and maybe we can make a phone call And maybe if the store is not getting product enough maybe they're having challenges of getting A dairy into the store that a quantity they need. Maybe we can help Effort the channels to that as well, but we've done Um, you know a lot of messaging on that hoping that that situation will be uh corrected Thank you. Uh crash Thank you, um, mr. Secretary. I'm I'm curious as you guys are are thinking through this program and obviously, you know, we're Been talking about something similar of direct assistance to farmers I'm struck by this discussion. We've had over the last few years around water quality and some of the bmp's and the state dollars going in there and In those discussions, we've reflected on the dynamic of of paying to upgrade facilities for water purposes in this case with the kind of haunting prospect that The farms, you know, there's so much pressure on the farms that Basically the public makes an investment Only to have the farm close in a year or two and and I guess I'm wondering Has there been any discussion? as you start thinking through a program Around investment for transition planning and and trying to to you know, in many cases Well, in all cases, I want farmers to be well paid fairly paid But in some cases propping up operations that have a little bit less Of a long horizon doesn't make a ton of sense and You know your agency and extension has done good work on helping people plan For transition and I guess I'm wondering if if there's any of that kind of thinking Surfacing as as you're trying to explore how to do this And that's it's and as you talk to farmers, I think farmers will tell you that's the number one need that they have right now Outside of you know getting through you know, the cash flow and the crisis now they want They want help with business planning. They want help with transition planning We have been working with you know with the farm viability program We've been talking with the housing conservation board So that's it's a key part of this and just about you know I've got a a dairy advisory board that we meet with on a You know quarterly basis and we had an exercise recently and that was the number one asked for them It's the is the transitioning the the planning the so forth and it's it's vital to that because we are seeing some Dairy farmers That are looking at other options One that's underway that happened recently. We have a dairy farm in In Lamoille County that just sold its cows all 300 of them Went on truck this week or last week and they are going to go to a major goat dairy to supply Goats milk for Vermont Creamery They're taking a they're taking a leap of faith with that and one at one point, you know, the farmers will tell you That's that's a little scary But they see that this is a this keeping this is an option that it's it's worked for it's working for them so Over my creameries excited about it the state is Working lanes has tried to support that transition These are these are traditional dairy farmers that had about 300 cows great farm they decided This particular market was not for them and they're going to try something differently working with airs brook dairy and and And in Randolph as well. So you're seeing a little bit of that But business planning Is is a key part of this in any way we can get people signed up and do that. I think it's really really important look at options You know tricks of the trade and financing and so forth Roast Yeah, thanks had to unmute myself Uh, thanks, um, secretary's habits. It's great to have you here. I know you're all Super busy during this crazy time. So thanks. Um We have it's sort of picking up a little bit on senator pierce. It's question We've been having a lot of conversations in this committee and I think across the senate and about What what can we do now? sort of the never waste a good crisis kind of attitude of What can we do now to learn lessons from this pandemic and Make our agriculture economy And food systems More resilient and stronger as we move hopefully out of this crisis and into a sort of new normal and so While we're obviously talking about what we need to do right now to help dairy farmers through this Um, it sounds I would like to hear a little bit more about what the agency is talking about Um, moving forward that we could help put together with you For making things stronger and part of it sounds like business planning is a big piece of that But last week we had a really good conversation about things like, um, our Transportation and delivery system and How we might help that how we might do more with farm safety About changing things in our food processing Systems and slaughterhouses and things like that. So just across the board and I'm wondering in addition to just giving Payments right now. What else would be on your top five list of things that we should be doing Moving out of this crisis Yeah, and that's and that's part of it as we head into the you know, we're kind of in crisis management now And and then we're going to go into the for the recovery stage But I think if you look at what's happening out there I think there's been a reset of like we've got to take care of each other We've got to take care of our neighbors. We've got to take care of our food system And you know, we're kind of comfortable with what's happening, but you're seeing You know on the national stage so you take take meat for example um, I think people are are realizing it's a little complicated and then it was kind of there was a lot of centralized With you know meat plants and so forth, but One bright spot that we're hearing is our our local meat processing plants are doing quite well now They're very busy. They probably could do more if they Could do more. I mean, we're not at the size and scale of you know, what you're seeing in the mid-west You know the Dakotas and Iowa and so forth like that, but I think what you're finding is It's like a reset. It's like, okay we're really good at growing vegetables and producing food and we're great at the dairy as high quality, but we've got to figure out a way to sort of Figure out our our food system and our channels and how to do that and that Probably got to be done in a regional aspect and necessarily just from on You know the wringland, New York, how do we get back into a sort of a regional system as opposed to it? What we've got now is kind of this national system, but I think um You know, we're gonna have there's a lot of stuff that's going on You know, we found there was some gaps probably on online Not everyone was up to speed on Being able to transition in order online except we've seen a lot of progress on that a very short period of time Peace council is You know, web-based purchasing We saw a tremendous activity in csa one of the bright spots and what i'm hearing that seems to be a model of people working Um farm stands seem to be uh, you know coming along nicely where people like that I think the only sort of Warning of this is we're sort of in we don't know what it's all going to be in the end We're kind of like this is working now, but are we going to go back to something in six months that's going to be The norm again. I don't know. I mean, it's like that's the challenge We're all having as you know as you know, what is something that's happens today Maybe changed in two days and it's sort of evolving as as we as we move along here So I think working on a regional regional food system With our neighbors would be one pocket that we probably need to do some more work on and And and and you know business planning education technical assistance all should be Something that we we focus on Moving forward and and will your plan whatever it is you're working on right now that you can't reveal yet Will that include some of this stuff? Um, I think I think that's some of the stuff I don't want to say long term But I want to say that stuff we're gonna we're gonna continue to work on but I don't think it'll be part of the sort of the crisis plan that we're working on trying to You know stand up a program right away, but I think that's something that's You know, we've already had discussions and and you know with abby and abby will be joining us To talk a little bit more about other stuff as well, but her division has been working on you know Sort of short term mid term and then long term strategies and we've been talking with You know from the plate and housing conservation board land trust all those organizations that Really are supportive ramon agriculture. They have to be players in this as well We have a lot of wonderful people working on this and we've just got a I don't think we were quite right I mean we were work for my was in pretty good position because we've kind of been working on a regional system So we may be in a better position Than some other pockets and we've got a lot of bright minds That are working on this stuff and we just got to try to put the pieces together so We can go forward and farmers can be profitable and and we can all be fed and that's another thing We need to keep focused on here is our farmers are feeding us And and they do a really really good job of it And they work really hard each and every day and I think also has been discovered in this whole thing is you know agriculture has had a reset People are really figuring out. Hey, they're kind of important and we really need them and we need to figure out this out So it's it's it's better for them so they can land in their animals um Yeah, thanks, hanson One question, you know if we're going to do a direct payment to to farmers which We ought to do sooner then later because The fertilizer and feed and seed and all those diesel fuel People, you know, they aren't extending these guys any more credit because most of them are at the limit but So we've got to get that that figure done and get it out the door But I'm wondering If if we're going to do a direct payment that amounts to anything it's going to take millions of dollars and To do it. So it's somewhat fair We've got to know what the feds are going to send in direct payments roughly You know, how many million? We You know, we need to know How much they're going to maybe get out of unemployment Or ppp plus upa And then we need to come up with a number you know that Tries to fill that gap and and we can't we can't keep fighting around until You know the middle of summer To get this done because they got to get crops in the ground. So Do you have any idea how much money the feds are going to send in direct payments? I don't I don't know exactly how much they're going to send but I know they have capped for dairy They've capped the dairy at 125,000 You know someone in maple may be able to get some more You know on this on the other there has been some discussion that They want to raise those payments But there's been some resistance to that keep in mind 125,000 to you know may sound a lot to the public But consider the inputs that a farmer has and right now You know the dairy farmer, this is the most expensive time of year for them. This is when they're buying seed This is where they're doing this fertilizer. This is where they're buying supply. This is when the Trucks and tractors are moving at the most So it's a it's a perfect storm of low prices and high costs So the urgency We understand that we know it's an urgent matter We don't want to develop a program if we get to that point that's going to be complicated to get the you know Payments out if we get to that point The other thing we have to keep in mind every other You know industry in vermont is also facing hardship as well. So You know We've got to keep in mind this other interest as well that are in this whole package, but I know that it from all the discussions we have we know that agriculture is very important And and the governor has stated that a number of times The agency of commerce We develop they understand it the public understands it. We're just going to try to You know get something together and and hopefully we can we can get something that for the finish line sooner than later Well, I think I think we put we put a pretty simple plan together to get the money Out the door to the farmer. I mean if you take the four categories and and you have you know, the you just plug in the money and Get somebody to write the checks and it's out the door and and we haven't had one complaint from from any of the farmers on The simplicity and the accuracy of of getting that out You know the large guys that just pay them so much on an average You take the average number of cows on large farms We cat did out at a thousand You know the medium size farms and the small farms and then everybody under 50 gets a flat chat because you don't know if they've got 15 cows or 49 cows and Michael did a good job helping put that together um but we've got to have a number and uh, and uh You know if we plug in whatever it is We could at least get get that out and and you know, the governor's got to understand that You know sending that out mid-June It's about a month late and uh Because we gotta get if you don't get seed in the ground and get these crops planted What's going to happen is those animals are going to be for sale come fall because they're going to be feed to put them through the winter right um And we we we understand the urgency senator. We we we totally agree. We understand the whole Dynamic of here and and I know everyone is working really really fast. I'm trying to get something get something together and and and Um, not only in not only in agriculture, but other industries as well because we know a lot of people are hurting Well, I mean Yeah, there's some out there hurting but their business and a lot of them are businesses that come and go I mean our our agriculture and regional foods and and all that that's something that's been here forever And we're getting to a critical down to a critical mass and We we've got to maintain a level.  I totally agree. Totally agree. We need to rose Yeah, I just uh, uh, this might be a question for abby. Um, but um, I'm wondering if you had an update on the summer school meals situation I know that when we heard from our federal delegation a couple weeks ago They had applied for the vermont had applied for a waiver to allow for the continuation of Food delivery from schools this summer, but that hadn't been approved yet And i'm wondering if you know if it's been approved. Um, because that would that is obviously a summer market for For for vermont farmers and wondering what the status is Uh senator hardy. This is abby willard agency of agriculture. Um, I was just on a call yesterday where that was discussed. Um, I was not Current on where that application was at that waiver request, but My understanding is that the waiver has not yet been accepted To allow the same school meal distribution and delivery mechanism that's happening now occur in the summer Um, though, I think there's there's hope and optimism that that that will occur and that that will happen in time So hunger free vermont gave an update on this during A farm to plate coveted kind of recovery check and call and in honor was was optimistic But not yet Done deal. Okay. Is there any do you think there's anything we should do? to Push that because it's been a while since they applied for that waiver and I know the other waiver approvals were approved pretty quickly So i'm just concerned To make sure that schools are able to have these programs stand up over the summer with enough time Yeah, it's a good question. I I don't know i'm i'm happy to reach out to anora to ask her My understanding is that the simpler waivers were approved and this is a more complicated waiver That kind of is just taking I guess more deliberation more discussion But a lot nor did not allude to a need for additional push But I will but I will follow up with her. It's a good question. Thank you. Of course Is uh, is the uh happy is the congressional delegation and on this so they're Crowding the people in washington to get it, you know, see about Yeah, yeah, they're they're aware and and and very engaged as I understand. Yeah, uh getting back to the dairy issue, uh, anson The uh, I've been in contact with uh, senator tar from massachusetts and mass uh, massachusetts is very interested in Trying to promote this local foods issue and his his big issue was the the meat issue and What you know, I could I'd love to see uh, half of our dairy farmers Cut down Well, they could all cut down some on the milk But a lot of them could could switch from maybe milking, uh 200 cows to milking 100 cows are 150 and running, you know 50 beef cattle and uh, but What's going to hold that all up is processing? so sometime during Your conversations with a ccd and those folks is you know, if we built a A nice modern processing facility Say in white river or in that off 89 91 in that area where you could go To harkford or boston or providence um You know, we could we could develop if the milk guys don't want to buy the milk and can't sell it and the franklin plant isn't included in In the bankruptcy deal with dean foods to dfa where most of our milk goes um You know, we've got to we've got to think about What the heck are we going to do in the future with all these beautiful fields and and land that we've got and You know growing beef would would be I think an ideal way to Utilize that property And I think that's one of the things that you know and abby. I know abby's been working her team has been working on long because of some of the things that we've learned of this but I think that is that that's an opportunity that probably we should explore. I know that in the The pennsylvania plants and a lot of vermont dairy kulkhouse go to pennsylvania to those plants and those shut down There was an impact here So, you know, I guess the question is could we Could we have something in vermont to those animals don't necessarily have to go to pennsylvania anymore? could it be done here but As you know, the the some of the knowledge i've learned over the meat processing over the years It's all about volume and getting it through there in a efficient way and and being able to get enough labor to do it as well And but that's one of those long-term strategies and abby feel free to jump in as well But we've had discussions about um that in the past and maybe it's it's time to restart some of that discussion Yeah, um, yeah, it's one of these long-term programs that we you know need to be investigating You know, it's an economic driver. I would employ like how many people would it employ and and all these things so that when we go to accd or they'd be in on it anyways um, you know, they could go to the The governor and to us and say look, um, you know, we need x millions of dollars to build this plant But it's going to employ 75 people it's going to Take care of x number farms or beef animals We have the market in boston and harford that we've developed you know all these little questions Make a difference whether you you get the money or you don't get the money when you come up and see us and And so it's important to get all that behind the scene's work done and you know We might we might be able to do some there's existing plants on that 91 corridor. Also, I don't know it could be possibly expanded as well. So We have about 13. I think across the state that are processing in various sizes, but there could be an opportunity with those if and or more capacity through those As well, but I know abby's working on Some long-term strategies As well with her development division Yeah, and you know, I don't know about the fruits or the veggies actually You know, should we have a if we're going to develop a market where we grow hundreds of acres of veggies We know we got to export those To to southern new england. Do we need a quick freeze plant or you know because you have to supply these these dealers 12 months of the year and So, you know all that as it's coming to a critical point here I mean this this pandemic is Is causing us to think different and to do things different and And we've got How many million 50 yard million people within a few hours drive of us And we've got all this beautiful land that grows Grows grass and crops Super super good You know, we ought to take advantage of that and forget about the mexico Uh, importation of fruits and veggies that we don't know How they were grown or or what they're doing with them But anyways, that's just No, and I think some of that work has been done You know, we presented that farm to plate in the agency Blueprint we found what the gaps the opportunities and that report has been completed the second half is underway as well So some of that work has already been done And maybe we need to accelerate some of the Implementation of that program but that a lot of that work has already been done with abby's group and farm to plate and so forth so that report's there um And you know, maybe we need to take a look at that and take our three three or four projects out of that plan and say Let's get to it And maybe we can use it as an opportunity to accelerate that plan as well And I know the second half of that is is being written as we speak But I think that's it's there We just got to we just got to put the pieces together, but I think we did a long strategy Yeah, thank you. Okay Yeah, gross Yeah, I just I I want to underscore that answer and I think that's a great idea to Look at what the work that's already been done and how and like I said, let's not waste a crisis and and We the senate has two Working groups working one is a transition working group and one is a lessons learned longer term working group And getting those things out there now and having them on the list of of things that we want to prioritize I think is really important. So Anything you can do like I said, give us your top five That you think these are the things that will make agriculture more resilient More sustainable more comprehensive and inclusive or whatever What other whatever lovely words you want to use but um But the sooner that we can get that the the sooner we can get it on our lists and really get it in the pipeline for the next You know six months to a year of Making sure that we come out of this stronger. So thank you. I know you've done that great work. So let's not waste it Thank you senator and Chris well all four of you are on Pad or on one committee and pad on the other Which one's working on the short term less? Chris are you working on we're on the lessons learned uh brine with me. Um And ag is one of the things we're meant to explore. So, um You know, we brine and I will have some ideas, but we're just barely getting started. Um We meet our for the first time later this afternoon, but we'll definitely come back to you, mr Chair potentially mr. Secretary or abby you guys although we want to keep you working doing the good work you're doing but Uh, trying to collect You know, what are some of the things we've learned here? Uh Food vulnerability is a clear one food system Um Vulnerability weakness weak points is a clear one in my mind Yeah, and ruth and anthony you're on the other one Um, so we're you know, we're sitting in We and ag are sitting in a pretty good spot with two members on On each committee so maybe Maybe abby or whoever does that kind of work For you ants and could get that you know material time to uh chris and bryan or to Ruth and anthony And I don't know what i'm supposed to be doing you guys have all got Well, I know what i'm supposed to be doing get that check out the door. Yeah, that's right guys before auction You know what you're doing senator. You know what you're doing Um, so abby, did you have anything that you Could have you got some news on farmers markets if if I could we've got a little bit of update on that Is that issue has evolved over time and just want to congratulate all the farmers? Pepper Yeah, so uh farmers markets. Um, he's got an update on that Is it all right senator if I put along here? I've got a Is that you barking well, uh, what is it his his bark is worse in the fight right? You're kicking him so you can go Okay Well, I appreciate it and uh, I don't even know how to hit you I'm used to the attitude Your voice is losing. Am I out there? Okay. Thank you senator. I'm gonna let abby. Is that okay? Y'all start with me Yeah, brian you have a question. No. No, I was waiting. Goodbye to hamson. Okay. Thank you. Yeah, thank you very much All right next week. We'll expect to hear something on On Well, we'll we'll keep you updated just as soon as I got information. I'll You'll be the first one I give a call to Well, I I'd appreciate that but probably not half as much as the farmers will appreciate it You bet. We're gonna work on it. All right. Thank you, sir. Thank you. Thank you, anson. Bye. Bye Bye abby Good morning everyone Just before I move into farmers markets, maybe one little piece on the the committees that you're both or you're all on um So while anson was talking about the state sort of very near term pain near term payments and support for ag We are working on a co vid recovery plan for agriculture Which includes some of those more near term to long term strategies And so we are going through the 119 recommendations that are in the ag strategic plan And breaking it out into right now. We have six different categories the first being dairy transformation the second business planning Which would include some of that transition succession planning work The third being supply chain and looking at kind of the both the the need for improvement As you were talking about senator pierson as well as some of the successes that we've had in a local strong supply chain Looking at longer term resiliency and preparedness recommendations for ag as well as for the support organizations like like the agency Also looking at marketing and digital competency, which anson alluded to so some of the e-commerce pieces and as well as the bilocal marketing messaging and then a piece that's really sort of Generally outside of agricultural agency of agriculture jurisdiction, which is the labor and food access pieces But they're very tangentially important to A viable food system So, you know, we got some great recommendations that came from the hunger free vermont and agency of education around Food access. So, you know, again, I think we can look to some of our key partners to help provide Some of the best recommendations in those categories of labor and food access But I think the question is how quickly do we need this plan and how quickly would you want some of that content? We've been working on it for about a week I would say we're a couple of weeks away from probably feeling like we have well vetted prioritized recommendations, but if we need to expedite that process to support both the lessons learned and the transition teams we could Yeah, Anthony had a question just Excuse me The transition team that I'm on with along with brian We're supposed to complete our work in terms of coming back to some recommendations within two weeks. So timeline's pretty quick I just want you to be aware of that Yeah, I guess I'm a free agent. I I think I was belonging to one of them and then I got transferred. So Yeah Abby, I think it would be great if you could send even if those are just bullet points to both Of our subcommittees because I think they do intersect yeah Yeah, I would agree we Uh, uh, we met this morning anthony and and I and our committee and I think we were told two weeks So if you have like brian bullet points you could send to the whole committee that would be helpful Of course, yeah, and I and I would just add abby, you know, just mark draft all over them You know, we're we're just such in a gathering mode here. We don't need your Greatest best thinking just some quick thoughts As we start just to inform our own thinking Yeah, and I appreciate the kind of reference to Not wasting a good crisis because we we too felt like we spent so much time Under the direction from you as well as the senate ag and forestry committee to do this ag strategic plan And there are so many recommendations that have been vetted and suggested by the industry and other stakeholders that There's really great recommendations there some of them being very appropriate during this time others, you know, maybe longer term investments, but Um, there was a lot of work done there and and as anson said, there's you know The second part of that project is still underway. We won't have The second draft of I think it's 32 briefs until sometime in maybe the beginning of june Or rude the month of june. So again, we only have half the Half the plan at this point, but there's there's still a lot of great content to work with Well, you know, we felt this pandemic coming on last year and that's why we asked you to do that this past summer Well, senator, you should have given us a better warning of how bad it was going to be Well It it it was relevant though even before but this I think this is going to push us Into getting something done to deal with it and and we ask we need to take advantage of Of it and contribute some resources, which will be really helpful. Hopefully well Your boss don't get resources very fast as we just found out. So Tell us what you need for money and we'll try to dig it up yes abby not to add to the workload here, but there's also a moment around the state college system where we're putting down some markers for the rural economy and the ag economy And how it fits together strikes me as Timely and so I'm wondering if you've had conversations or if there are others that are Brainstorming along those lines And a brainstorm is the right word because it's very early in some sense, but That wouldn't know may close quickly. I'm just curious Yeah, it's a great question. I know that there are many food system conversations that are including the vermont state colleges circumstance as well and I think the timing is Really interesting and An opportunity to take advantage of as well so much of the kind of the conversation around meat processing, for example Is really about having a skilled and trained workforce to be able to open more plants or add additional shifts And a lot of that labor comes from Some of the certificate programs that exist at vermont tech and other places and so Um And I think you know one of the kind of learned lessons that I would say we've kind of quickly kind of identified is The real value of partnerships and connections and I've seen partnerships in the last Eight weeks that we have never seen before um, you know nonprofits connecting with state agencies that have always disagreed or non-profit partners working with a private sector that never really had an interaction and so It is a wonderful sort of opportunity to watch the community that's established in the state And I think you know even just watching what happened for the outpouring of support for vermont state colleges with the proposed announcement and seeing people be really Impassioned around wanting to look at an alternative plan. So Um, I think some of the labor issues would have a really direct and immediate overlap with the vermont state colleges conversation um Yeah, so that's a good one to kind of make sure we keep Kind of adding into the mix And maybe even just like uh the succession planning and you know the the next generation of ag producers that are attending vermont tech in particular that are looking at what the next generation of agriculture will be They're on their family farm or them just choosing to stay in vermont and start a new business So we want that innovation and entrepreneurism to stay in the state um around ag and and management. So No, that that's a good way to look at it abby, um, you know because we can't You know our our dairy guys, I guess they really like milk and cows seven days a week, but You know if you can't sell it you've got to change directions and And uh, you know this this could really make a difference If we can get these things going and you know uvm is good to you know They buy a lot of local grown foods in our institutions and I mean we we could do There's a lot of work left to be done But you've got to add the infrastructure to be able to supply this these products um, any other questions for abby Before we move to farmers markets. Yeah I I heard that went pretty well Yeah, so I would say this last weekend we were aware of two markets that opened under the guidance that was released and the frequently asked questions Kind of clarification that we shared with the industry on friday. So on may 1st markets could open they had some Vending restrictions that they needed to follow as well as a fair amount of health and safety Requirements for them to be able to be vending And the two markets that opened one in bennington one in montpelier Did a great job one was more of a curbside model And and pick up the other was a well situated socially distanced vendor booths with You know one directional flow through hand sanitation that was happening as you enter and exit um, you know nice distancing between the Those entering the market and those actually purchasing product from the individual vendors. So It they did a great job and they they kind of worked really hard to adhere to the guidance that was provided and had to make some market shifts by Limiting the number of vendors that they could have as well as the vendor types that were allowable under the guidance as of as of friday so I think it was an example of Being able to support commerce with the the public health and safety At the sort of center of their efforts And I know it wasn't easy for markets and they they worked hard to to make it work and so I think everyone was really pleased and it was nice to hear the governor acknowledge them specifically as a model It could be looked to as to how how we can slowly and safely restart the economy Yeah So then yesterday. Oh, I'm sorry senator Well, I just got to ask are you anticipating more More to be open like this week or Yeah, so so then um There were markets that were on kind of their own opening schedule We threw a little bit of a a curveball, but I think a good curveball yesterday Where we actually opened up some of the vending restrictions at markets and So previously farmers markets As of friday were restricted to food and beverage vending only and they all needed to be pre-packaged intended for off-site consumption and you know take away As of yesterday we updated that guidance so effective immediately farmers now markets can now Vend both non-edible ag products as well as non agricultural products at the markets So that means that They can do crafts they can do non-edible farm products. So beeswax candles go smoke soap Fiber and leases As well as you know baskets and crafts and other other edible other non-edible items So that's really exciting. I think for markets to be able to know that they have a more opened up opportunity to engage with their very loyal customer base They still have to practice all the public health and safety precautions They still have to comply with the executive order and the other related guidance and other ways but Some of the feedback that we had heard and and I presume the committee did as well that You know many markets function on a budget based on vendor fees And with the restrictions on what vendors were allowable at the market Was making it difficult for some markets to feel like they had a viable kind of market model and so So, you know, I really appreciate the flexibility of the farmers market community where We gave them some guidance and information on Friday and different and new information And at the end of the day yesterday. So Starting today markets will have a different That they'll be operating under a more or less restrictive Kind of guidelines around what vendors can be at the market And yeah, we know that we'll see some additional vent markets open this week This weekend. I think we know at least Adding one or two markets and from others day Weekend and then the then the subsequent week and then into the beginning of june We'll start to really see additional markets online Yeah, sounds good. I think questions from any of the committee Uh crash Abby, what is that leave? Is it just the distance that's left or is it prepared sort of eat on site food that's left? I guess I'm trying to understand what's not permitted at this moment. Yeah, so still All food and beverage available at the market needs to be prepared and packaged for takeaway and consumption off-site So there's still the overarching agenda to not see a congregation in large gatherings at the market So entertainment activities music Other ways other other incentives to get people to stay and linger are still are still restricted at markets But they can bend they can bend anything including food and beverage as they could as of friday, but now they can Include all their non-edible vendors as well as their non ag vendors that do crafts and the like Yeah, um, any other questions for abby If not, uh abby, um, try do your darkness to get that stuff up to the two committees that That are working so We can keep ahead of the curve on that and Hopefully something good will come of it so Yeah Well Michael has a question I would I would just ask that abby send the updated guidance to the committee Because I just went to the agency's website and it still has the april 24th guidance Oh, yeah, I think it's being modified as we speak. So yes, okay I'll send it as soon as what we did do is we took down the f a q document that spoke to That what products were allowable and which ones were still restricted. So that didn't feel as relevant any longer But yes, as soon as the guidance is updated. I'll make sure it's great. Thanks. Yeah Thanks, Mike, uh, Michael. Um, anything else for abby If not, thanks a lot abby and we'll uh, see you sometime See you sometime. Thank you Okay, okay, uh, I think next up Miss davis, are you on? Yeah, there you are So you want to You want to give us an update on on what?  Chair. Um, first of all, one of the us to everybody I Have interacted with a number of you already but not in the agriculture context So it's nice to see you on this Alternate and these alternative facts this alternative realm It's not quite the same No, no it isn't but we're we're doing what we can So first of all, thank you for your time. No, please. It's it's my pleasure. I appreciate being here I know that you all have over a number of years heard From folks Reminding us about the importance of remembering our migrant farm workers And I'm sure a lot of the statistics that I could mention here. You've already heard them and you already know them However, I would be remiss not to join the cacophony of voices reminding us to remember our migrant workers So thank you for having me. That's what I'm really here to talk about today. Um, you already know that on our best days as a state and as a nation our migrant farm workers are exponentially vulnerable in a variety of ways Uh risk of injury from farm machinery risk of illness from things like exposure to pesticides Lack of PPE which right now unfortunately, they're in a sort of competition for PPE with with health workers Things like lack of access to health care. They're also at risk economically things like wage theft Substandard housing lack of labor protections and and of course as many of you know That's not by accident, right? We look back in our country's history at things like the New Deal Which strategically excluded domestic and agricultural workers from the labor protections because they were people of color at the time That's something that's lingered to this day and that still disproportionately impact communities of color in the united states So this is a a long history, you know, they're typically ineligible for unemployment insurance And so what we're looking at right now is a terrible storm of existing Structural inequities that has made this population particularly vulnerable now During an emergency like a kovat 19 So given all of that I'm really happy to see that the state of remand is thinking about the industry and is helping Those who are interacting With our migrant population. Um, for example on last week's hearing I believe you all discussed the fact that the state is planning to allow reimbursement for health providers who are treating uninsured persons Which does have a positive impact on this community specifically Although we do also want to make sure that health care spaces are safe for them to be presenting in the first place, right? um, you know, it's really great to hear the updates about how the state is handling relief for the agriculture industry specifically for dairy And so I would say that next up For us is the need to protect the workers themselves and others who are shut out of resources being offered by the fed Yeah, and chris, um You I believe you senator pierson. I think you talked to a chair of the health and welfare in regards to the health care issues and and And susana should speak up if i'm wrong But what we understand is that the feds have made it clear now that money can go to help pay for clinics that are treating uninsured Which would include our migrant workers. Um So that you know as as we were hearing the catalog of unjustice Sort of striking these valuable workers the health care one seemed acute to me in that we're in a health pandemic Uh, so i'm not sure how we get the word out That people can have some confidence that they won't be bankrupt by seeking medical care, but that does seem like a positive development absolutely And a lot of that just is gonna have to we're just gonna have to It takes a lot of time to do the kind of trust building that we need to do with communities who have been burned before right by by folks, um By by different folks at different levels of government, whether it's local state or federal um, that's going to take a lot of time and we're going to have to Make sure that we demonstrate that we really mean it when we say no, you're safe. We're not going to Secretly have um, we know we're not going to have our employees sort of suspiciously handing over your information to immigration authorities or or what have you Yeah rose sad a question Um, well first I just want to thank uh, susanna for being here and and talking to us about this issue. Um, so thank you um, and I just wanted to underscore that I think that in uh, Many communities here in adison county that the the largest health care provider for migrant farm workers is the open door clinic and we got testimony from Them a couple weeks ago with a story about a worker who was presumed to be positive for covid so it was really interesting to hear sort of all of the michigan steps they had to go through to get health care, but they did get health care and recovered um, and turned out actually not to be positive, which is interesting in the end, but um, there is a lot of trust here in adison county with the open door clinic and um, The migrant farm community and the farmers who employ them So I do want to underscore that that has been around for 30 years now and has been a really good resource for that community and I think there is a lot of trust And I do hope that the open door clinic and others In the state that provide this vital service are able to get some of the cares act money So it's good to hear that that's that has been okayed Um, and I also wanted to let you know that I've been working on trying to figure out a way to provide direct to migrant farm workers themselves because they did not We're not able to receive the federal stimulus funding that That that we all enjoyed or most of us enjoyed and There are some legal barriers that I'm working. I'm trying to work through with Michael O'Grady and his colleagues at the legislative council, but we're still working on how that might or might not work But did want you to know that It is on my mind and I think the whole committee's mind And how we might be able to include them In a sort of ag relief package that's more holistic Um, so uh, it's not They are not forgotten. So I just wanted you to know that we're working on that Yeah, uh, Anthony That's it president. I just wonder we heard from uh, migrant justice a couple weeks ago About the idea of a fund similar to what senator hardy was just talking about I'm wondering whether you've been in touch with them and Whether you have any vision of how such a fund would work or where that where it would be targeted Just you know, what's your thoughts might be about that and whether it's something the administration or folks you're talking to would be open to it all Yeah, this is I'm really glad um I'm really glad that you all have raised this issue because that was actually the next thing I was going to Bring up So, yes, I have been in touch with a number of the advocates and with folks internally In the administration just for some preliminary conversations on this topic and Some of the some of my initial impressions are are as follows One it's important. I like to remind people that There are a lot of people in addition to migrant, um, to undocumented folks who would be excluded from federal covid relief funds um, it includes people who are It includes people who are undocumented who are here, but it also includes people who are here on things like student visas Those who have legal immigration status here, but who don't have social security numbers and also mixed status families Those are families of people who some might be undocumented. Some might not that includes eight More than eight million people who are u.s citizens. So in other words when we talk about federal relief funds going to Every american or every adult american we're actually excluding over eight million citizens Simply because they're married or related to a person who does not have legal status in the country So this is really important when we think about who's being shut out of the federal relief funds. So just on a just Outfront I would say I I feel very strongly that um, remat should consider This sort of a fund for its undocumented population or for anyone who's shut out of receiving federal, uh, stimulus funds I also think that The majority of the people in vermont Who would benefit from such a fund are likely to be workers on vermont's farms However, I wonder if this is something that that should be part of an agricultural out of a bigger agriculture bill or if it should be um Or if it should take shape in another space, I say this again because it does include more than just migrant farm workers So that's something that you all with with your other colleagues might want to consider um The other thing that I would say is that I have been in contact with the advocates I know that you all hear from them regularly and I do think it's incredibly important that we include them And other stakeholders in the drafting of such a bill I know that you all have a lot of deep, uh, contact and communication with your constituencies And yet I find uh in in various tours in different governments and different jurisdictions that community groups Always have such a close ear to the ground and are often Really on on the first The first edge or however you say that, uh cutting edge of what folks need so Did you find or have you found um in your um findings that There's a majority of these folks that that work on farms or dairy farms but there's also a lot of uh seasonal Workers that come here that come in the spring and work way through Uh the fall Are you including those folks also into your numbers You know, I'm really thinking primarily of the folks who Uh are in the united states Here making their lives Who are shut out of federal funds? um, of course I I mean if if if there's money laying around Then of course I would be uh in favor of including any and everyone who who supports American industry and the american economy in any way whether it's seasonal workers on farms or another Or in other sectors of the economy However, I think that given the limitations of a lot of this funding It would be my priority to focus on those Who are here as really as part of the community who are often overlooked in other ways. Yeah Yeah, um antony I was just going back to what you said about whether it should be part of agriculture Ballout package or whether it should be separated and I think that From my point of view given the fact that we it's a long it's going to be a difficult process I think to gain a lot of support for this But I think it makes sense to integrate it into an agricultural support program I mean if we're going to be given millions of dollars literally to dairy farmers It would make some sense that to fold in some money for the people who are actually doing the work on the dairy farms Because they're the ones who are out there wasting their the injuries and their health So I think it would make sense to try to do it as part of a larger bit dairy support Project or a system that we put together So that the workers actually benefit a little bit from the amount of money that we're going to give the farmers I'm in a great position because it sounds like what I'm hearing from you Is that we are clamoring to be the ones to get this done and that is a beautiful That's a beautiful thing to hear so Yeah, absolutely. I mean You know again my concern is is Is how can we get this done? and whatever vehicle makes the most sense Then um, you know, I I think that's worth support Sorry, mr. Cherry. We're going to say something Well, I I think what we would We would probably want to do is load in If when we put a bill together either in our committee or suggestions to Some other committee A portion of this money would go to the employees of the individual Farmers that it wouldn't be all just for them to use for seed feed fertilizer and diesel that Some of that would be used to offset The risk that the employees have gone through And probably wouldn't mention anything about documented undocumented Anything about who they are everybody would get used equally and I think I think that's correct. Mr. Chair that you know And I think that it's important that we be explicit about that because what we're seeing in other sectors around the country is that funds that are intended to go to workers Instead are being held by employers and used for other purposes or worse just left in their bank accounts because they're afraid to use them And which really undermines the purpose of those funds to begin with and to your point about Just making sure it goes to workers without even necessarily having to specify things like immigration status I I I agree with that and I also think that that's that's another reason that we may consider Making sure that this is is part of Yes, an agriculture package But that it also is designed in a way that it gets to all the folks who are excluded from federal funds Not just those who touch the dairy industry in vermont So however, we can we can accomplish that so that everybody who should be entitled to those funds gets them I think would be appropriate Yeah, uh, brian you had a issue I did and I think susanna's answered part of it and you have as well, mr. Chair, and I see my michael o'grady as all of a sudden Come back on the video It seems to me that I remember during Irene That there was federal relief money given to vermont and some of it did get to Undocumented folks and I think there was a clawback provision That the state wound up having to pay some of that back So I just wanted to raise that as an issue, but I think you already have sort of addressed it I'm not sure what the workaround is on it um, and I'm very sympathetic to uh, including as many people as we can Uh with relief efforts, but maybe michael has more of an idea. Am I totally off base here michael? Uh, no, you're not totally off base and and this These are some of the concerns. I've been talking to senator hardy about Just to back it up though The new jersey bill that would have provided direct assistance to undocumented and migrant Was drafted in a way that it was comprehensive it was assistance to those persons who did not qualify for for A payment under the cares act stimulus so it it it did apply across the board It wasn't just about agriculture or migrant were undocumented It was to anyone that didn't qualify. So I think that that might be a model that you would want to look at Unfortunately, that was vetoed by the new jersey governor on tuesday For for a couple of different reasons. I won't cut into but both the california Um program and the new jersey program were paid out of state funds And I I think that Might be that was probably a careful consideration uh one Because there is a clawback provision in the cares act Two because the information that might be provided by an applicant Underneath a federal stimulus bill Uh potentially the feds could argue that that information needs to be provided To the federal government and I don't know if you want to do that or not um another issue is that that The agency of ag is um operates a lot of federally funded programs and I don't know if you want to to Bring them underneath the the kind of scrutiny of the feds and treasury and and how they're running some of their programs because They're using this federal funding to to provide assistance to migrants So I think you've got some really good options to do this I think you can look at the new jersey bill for kind of the scope Of who you want to qualify I think you can look to the california bill To the mechanism for how it's awarded They did it through a private public partnership With nonprofit organizations So you basically gave a grant to a nonprofit to run the application program and the awards And you can probably write in a confidentiality provision into that that authority And then you insulated the agency or any state agency from federal kind of scrutiny You've used state funds. So you don't have federal clawback And you don't have a federal Basically Demand of right for the information that's provided And you've served everyone that's not Served by the cares act. I so I I think that that Kind of melding new jersey in california Might be some options for you to to address what you want to do Yeah, um, are you working on some something with ruse on drafting that or Or do we yeah ruse? Yeah, um, yeah, michael and I have been changing emails Over the last couple days about this and before the committee mat he Sent me some information similar to what he just stated to the whole committee. So my plan was to follow up with him and I think becky wasterman um to get something drafted for the committee to look at Yeah That sounds good. Um, I think that framework I think that framework sounds really great. Thank you, michael. You've described it really well and you know in thinking about things like vetoes and other states and How we can do this creatively one of the things that I really appreciate about vermont Is that we lead on a lot of these issues? and so Being able to borrow to take the good example and to learn from the missteps perhaps in other jurisdictions Is where we're really going to be strong on this. So I completely agree um, it it might be and again, I'm speaking a bit out of turn here because um these are conversations that I I still need to have with um with folks on the admin side to to figure out how we can really accomplish this so So I apologize in advance for my enthusiasm right now But you know, one of the things that I think about when I think about this issue is when we talked about salt the state and local taxes and that whole fight that happened with my former jurisdiction new york state And the federal government when there was a cap put on state and local taxes in the way that the state shows or sought to go about it was um You know through having folks donate to a state-run charity Which you know had different implications between charitable contributions versus what kind of does the tax and i'm not going to get into the whole details of that But the point is being able to be creative with whose Managing a program like this is really important michaels point about um About the fact that we run a lot of federally funded programs and not wanting to jeopardize those programs Is a fair point and I hear it a lot in the criminal justice space here in vermont when we think about for example fair and impartial policing and the Relationship that our state police or statewide policing police Agencies have with the federal government who's always mad at us for not sending enough people to ICE and threatening our um opioid money Right and and having to do that dance And I think that this is a dance that we may have to do here, but it's it's so worth it It's worth it for the state not just for moral reasons But also for economic reasons and we're not the only ones in this other jurisdictions working on this same issue including florida texas north carolina washington minnesota We know the california bill already new york city has a 20 million dollar initiative for the same thing So I think we're really on the right path and we've just got to figure out how to do it creatively in a way that doesn't jeopardize other federal interests that we may have well I mean one way of dealing with this is you use the federal money to cover A state expense that's that we're already paying That qualifies and then you take that money from that particular issue Move it back into the general fund of the state and then reallocate it to to this and because financially We haven't gotten new dollars matter of fact. We're You know the next fiscal year is going to be kind of difficult and we're going to have to duck and dive and weave things back and forth to try to make the most of our dollars but fill those holes You know that we legitimately use the federal money for so I think you know, there's there's ways of working that working that out Brian Thank you, mr. Chair. I do want to mention. I I do think it's an important issue for this committee to consider the last I knew almost 70 percent of vermont's milk comes from dairies employing migrant workers so To me, it's not unlike general motors or ford trying to manufacture a car without taking into account The folks working on the assembly line. It just so it's good for the vermont farmer as well as the workers So I think I think it's important Yeah, very much so Other questions for susanne No, well, uh, thank you One thing Susanna as I have a draft available. I can share it with you to take a look at to get your feedback and any help you can You can have with the administration to help Would be would be welcome Yes, yeah, it's going to take it all of us pulling that wagon in the same direction You know to get it done So anything else from you susanne No, mr. Chair, but I will say that um, I am very happy to come back at any time in the future on this and other issues, so Please do keep me in mind if you Have any thoughts questions complaints comments concerns that I can help with Well, and thanks a lot for your time today and I know the last time we were meeting We didn't get to you and uh, so I'm sorry about that, but uh, thanks a lot for your time today. We Really appreciate it. So thank you. Thank you Ryan Sorry, I was waving goodbye to susanne You caught me waving goodbye Oh Um John uh, you're on. Yeah Um, so welcome uh this morning and thank thanks to you for waiting last time We tried to Break it up a little make it a little wider today. So you'd have plenty of time So thanks for hanging with us this morning and uh They were good to get going Great. Well, thank you senator star and thank you to the committee. Um and then linda for organizing this I I I thought I could use my time to really share some thoughts on some themes that we've already heard about You know the theme of what do we do now in the midst of crisis to move to a different future for vermont's system That would be good So and also I it's it's it's was helpful to hear Secretary tevett's statements that the number one ask from dairy farms is to help with transition plans And that we have to start thinking about how to build a more resilient regional food system so that's that's some of the context of my comments as well And um building on on your statement senator star that with this crisis, it's it's perhaps time to really start thinking differently um So I want to structure my my opening comments here and I hope we have some time from discussion about You know asking really three big questions. Um that your committee has wrestled with You know, what are the overarching goals of our vermont food system, especially coming out of this crisis? um What is the current state of the system relative to those goals? Um, and what would a more comprehensive plan look like to get us from here to there? Um before I suggest some goals and some potential steps to get us there Uh, I would like us to consider the current state of production and consumption in vermont's food system um I know you all know a lot of this but perhaps some of the public listening and um and and to help frame this For all of us the conversation about how do we get from here to there? So on the here side on the production side We know and it was emphasized earlier Today in committee That we have a largely export oriented commodity based industry On a shrinking agricultural land base That is highly dependent on the outside world for production inputs and for consumer demand um I don't need to tell this committee but in the depths of the great depression in 1935 more than 60 percent of vermont's land was in agriculture And today it's under 15 percent 80 percent of the remaining farmland is concentrated in the single industry of dairy Which accounts on any given year between 60 and 70 percent of our state's agricultural sales About 85 percent of milk and dairy products are exported And and I really want to emphasize this point No other state in the union. No other state is so dominated by a single agricultural commodity Which really puts into focus this question of vulnerability and building a new resilient system um While the land base and total herd size and dairy has struck shrunk considerably since the 1930s The fact remains that dairy production has more than doubled By transitioning to an input intensive model Uh animal density today has increased 250 percent Milk per cow has increased 500 percent And we've substituted less and less land in agriculture For more and more imported inputs, particularly high energy grains So this dominant model of the vast majority of vermont's agricultural production is heavily dependent on outside inputs And outside markets in which we the state of vermont and our citizens have little to no control The only way we compete is by cutting costs Through greater reliance on mechanization Migrant later labor, which we just heard about In decades of looking the other way on our environmental impact When that's not enough we borrow money We make equipment dealers and grain importers wealthy outside of our state And we hope for federal subsidies that are largely dictated by mid western farm politics not by my vermont So this is a moment when I think a lot of us in the vermont food system are saying on the production side enough is enough And that we set a new course So briefly on the consumption side We know the vast majority of food calories consumed in vermont arrive through corporate controlled national and international supply chains With long food miles High food waste and low quality calories The latest data from our farm to plate program tallies local food sales at 12.9 percent That's up from 9.7 percent in 2014. So we're moving in the right direction And we're actually doing a little better than the new england average of 10 percent However, it's the access to the local food system that is much much much lower to large portions of our population One in seven vermont's are on food stamps There are a dozen or more food deserts in vermont's particularly in rural farm communities And recent data on food insecurity before the pandemic was at 18.3 percent amongst all households Survey research research just done on food insecurity in the first weeks of the pandemic led by dr. Meredith niles at uvm Actually found a significant increase 33 increase with over 24 percent of surveyed households now food insecure And they also found that 35 percent of these households are newly food insecure and 70 percent Of those food insecure households Not unsurprisingly have experienced a job loss or disruption caused by the corona virus So again, is this also the moment when we look to our own To perhaps provide for our own So these are just a A couple quick highlights of a highly what I would characterize as a highly vulnerable vermont food system that has been made all too clear as you all have emphasized in this pandemic so What next right that's the big question I I understand that we're in crisis mode right now But we also have the opportunity to lay out goals for a comprehensive food system transformation In my mind that would have have three key characteristics um number one That was already mentioned this morning. Um as as a as a major ask from our dairy community number one a transition away from a single commodity expert oriented export oriented model Towards a diverse multifunctional agroecological system number two A move away from a demoralized and in the case of migrant workers often dehumanized farm labor system and tour towards farm families with living wages and full benefits Supported by an engaged citizenry who are genuinely participating in the vermont food system and number three Reduce our reliance on a corporate controlled national and international food supply chain And build a system of regionally coordinated Connected in resilient food hubs that all vermonters all vermonters can afford an excess So what might this comprehensive transformation plan look like? Well Thankfully, we don't have to start from scratch because there are many elements of this already in place But as has been emphasized these elements tend to be underfunded And tend to be quite isolated from other things going on Um as you all have noted and due to your leadership The vermont agricultural and food systems plan was released in january of this year As a joint effort between the vermont agency of ag food and markets and the vermont sustainable jobs fund Um, this was a result of act 83 signed into law by governor scott just last may so i'm very very thankful that That you all had the foresight a year ago to get this rolling It includes a product by product identification of bottlenecks and gaps in business and technical assistance farmer to farmer peer education And gaps in product marketing This this food systems plan is as you've noted part one Of a new farm to plate 2.0 strategic plan to help guide the the work of the next 10 years Of our vermont sustainable jobs fund Um this vermont sustainable jobs fund designated back into 2009 Has very very good broad broad buy-in It's reauthorization last year for another 10 years puts it really in a position for a possible home for a truly truly comprehensive food system transformation With these overarching goals around food security regional food system reliance resilience And transition to a new product standards around a healthy food system You heard last week from no for vermont and maddie ketner Uh, she presented elements of this in testimony Um with very important aspects on both the supply and demand side of vermont's food system transition um They're thinking around universal school meals program Local purchasing incentive bill that i know has been uh on the table with clear mandates for schools correction facilities hospitals and other state or quasi-state facilities Uh creation of a vermont's vermont food sovereignty law similar to efforts that have happened main Um, a coordinated import substitution program to really support this expansion of local healthy organic agriculture in vermont It's a shame that we import so much of our organic food into vermont instead of make it here ourselves um programs on land access support for beginning farmers and farmers of color and coordination with the health department on a phase out of the use of chemicals that we know are toxic to pollinators aquatic wildlife and human health Um, we also have the new england food vision as a source of inspiration with a goal of 50 percent of our food produced within the region by 2060 And there's also a green new england deal that's been in the works that i've had the honor to consult on That is building on a basic needs framework including housing health care food energy transportation and clean air and water So and by by saying, you know, what's what's missing In all of this work this kind of piecemeal underfunded often isolated work is a vision For vermont's food system that really benefits all constituents of our system And this moment is really really shining a light on who are most vulnerable in our vermont food system What's lacking in my opinion are resources for coordination and long-term planning I know that funding planning isn't a sexy thing, but in these moments we look around and realize we don't have a plan for this um Planning beyond a single commodity or beyond the current growing season or beyond the current crisis um I'd hate to see us move back to normal because normal was already in crisis and the vermont food system um What's needed is an approach to invest in this kind of systems level resilience Not just farm level but systems level with targets milestones and new new mandates for vermont's food system um Our food system needs something akin to vermont's energy transition plan And it can't simply be a plan to save an expert oriented commodity bound dairy sector That just simply can't compete in the current market landscape Again, the pieces of this comprehensive puzzle are everywhere um coordinating local and regional supply chains will require regular needs assessments at appropriate scales A state agriculture department that takes this whole systems approach to building resilience in our food system We need to change the goalposts of our ag of our ag department and invest in the planning capacity if you will for to have actual food hub managers That are working on connecting our demanders and our suppliers um Enabling and supporting the current and future labor force In a more engaged citizenry and vermont's food system will require support For apprenticeships and vermont transition plans as was noted by secretary tevitz ecological restoration of decades and decades and decades of farm field compaction and soil erosion robust urban agricultural products and community gardens Land access supporting beginner farmers and farmers of color as was mentioned and incentives for worker and consumer owned cooperatives that are tied to local and organic food access goals. I think the access piece That's been um Hasn't been considered So uh in conclusion a comprehensive multi-sector approach would actually bring resources in from health from energy from development Recognizing that a resilient food system contributes to good human health outcomes A more engaged transition to renewable energy, especially in including rural communities And a rural development model that attracts and retains workers And perhaps most immediately the state needs to direct resources to create more local demand over the long run increasing local food and What european movements for this called public kitchens including hospitals schools colleges and universities? Creating local food mandates tied to public money Negotiating reliable institutional contracts at regional and state scales And instituting aggressive import substitution policies and practices that are focused on food system resilience access and diversification So in my opinion studying vermont's food system for many decades at the university of vermont Returning to normal and vermont's food system should not be the long-term goal or maybe even the mid-term goal Normal was already in crisis So thank you for my for taking my testimony and I hope there's some time for some discussion Yeah, well, thank you very much uh john The is that all in print uh john Yes, I have some I have notes. It's uh kind of bullet points, but i'm happy to share my notes with you Yeah, that would that would be most helpful. I think as we move forward to To have those if you could Uh and then we'll get the questions and uh chris Thanks john I could listen to you talk for a long time and and uh, you know, you paint a You do a good job of painting a broad and over arching picture Which is in my experience your state government very difficult to advance in a comprehensive solution So I'd like to just take one little slice of this although I know that's a violation of the spirit of what you're talking about I agree with your spirit there as a as somebody who studies economics and and has been around sort of a Is there a rule of thumb? on sort of the maximum percentage of An economy that a community should accept being dependent on one commodity, I mean Is there a point where where um Economists go, whoa, whoa, whoa. You really want to stop before you reach, you know 45 percent on one come on You know what i'm saying i'm As a way to inform the broader vision. I'm wondering if there are sort of Metrics that we can point to or even data out there Uh in the literature world that that can back up what we all understand is An unhealthy level of dependence on a single commodity, but does that make sense? Yeah, it makes a lot of sense and you're really striking right at the central nervous system of of the economic kind of World view that we've all that we all live in in the fairy tale that we've been telling that been telling ourselves um You know the absolute kind of core of economics is comparative advantage, right? The core of economics is that we need to create more efficient systems and we do this by specializing and exchanging But never in the textbooks never in the econ 101 courses never in the kind of economic fairy tale that's told to all of us Are we told the trade-offs of specialization and trade trade dependence? um You know the key key key trade-off to specialization is lack of diversification lack of resilience lack of redundancy lack of the ability to have bent knees during the time of crisis um This is actually most well known In the developing country literature Vermont quite literally has the developing country model of agriculture Where we have highly specialized in one particular commodity That we have little to no control over both the inputs and the outputs So we know that when countries do this And they've been told to do this throughout the global south to specialize in an exchange To the benefit of the importer right to get something cheap But to the detriment of the exporter to make very vulnerable undiversified systems so um I'm taking your specific question and going back up to to a high level because I think that's the context of Vermont um, again, I'll emphasize this point of the 50 states We have the designation of being the state that's most concentrated in one single commodity in our agricultural system um That has been and and and will continue to be um, a very very vulnerable strategy for for Vermont's agricultural system We shouldn't kind of you know fall into this efficiency logic that that makes for cheap food To feed the world. Um, if I hear that one more time, I'm just gonna I'm just gonna throw up It's just simply, you know, not true And it's also not not a not a strategy to build a resilient food system Well, you don't think big's better than like, you know We've always been told what big better if you aren't making it on what you're doing you've got to get bigger So you can get more efficient If your goal is cheap cheap food and low quality calories, then bigger is better If your goal is healthy food system and a high quality resilient food system Then diversified small nimble resilience is better So it's about setting those bigger picture goals for our state and quite frankly for our ag department Antony, yeah, we used to say if you're losing money on every hundred weight of milk the solution is to make more milk Right make more hundred weights until you You know, John when I think about where to start with what we're talking about as we move forward trying to make agriculture More resilient and more successful in Vermont We sort of we brainstorm and we say let's come up with the five top priority things we need to do and I you know We talk about the need for more Processing the need for food hubs and whatnot But I keep coming back to the idea that do we need to increase them Either the increase or verify that the demand is there before we start moving forward on processing and things like that Did you say a little bit about demand? I mean, should we be funding like school lunches more and Vermonters feeding vermoners at the food bank Things like that which are going to take state money to do or some money to do But how important is it that we create demand before we go about doing processing? I shouldn't say it that way because I'm not saying It is more important or not. I'm wondering which what your thought is No, and I think your question is is on the money because We focus so much on on propping up a production system without thinking enough about creating the demand that a new system will need um Okay, look in the biggest sense demands there. We all got to eat right Um, but the context of a cheap food policy has meant that as a country We really stand out in terms of the percentage of our family income that's spent on food Very long. We are an anomaly. Yeah and so, um Local food demand is also there Price has been an issue Um, I often use the example of the recycled paper market Everyone wanted to buy recycled paper Right, but there was no supply because once you put it on the market It was more expensive than regular paper and no one would buy it So what the federal government did was is they mandated they used their spending power, right to mandate purchases of recycled paper That overnight created A recycled paper market Vermont is in a similar situation New england is in a similar situation Right where the state's buying power The state's mandate power with with anything tied to public money needs to create the demand for local organic food This would start in our schools. Okay, this would go to our hospitals This should be at our universities and colleges This should be in this vision of regional regional food hubs So if you if you glance across the ocean to europe, this is exactly what they're doing They actually have organic agriculture transition plans with targets with goals to set and and they do it not through just Hoping and praying that the magic of the marketplace is going to work They do it by mandating purchases first in schools then in hospitals also in correctional facilities and by creating Resilient food in a food hub kind of approach And so they're marching forward at, you know, 5% local food 10 15 20 25 30 Denmark is now approaching 30 and they've created a more resilient food system as as a consequence But not through the magic of the marketplace And they don't use the p word planning But it doesn't necessarily mean more public dollars being used It means mandating that they purchase certain kinds of products. That's exactly exactly. Yep. So um, it It could mean that more of a budget is devoted to healthy food um That's fine of of a school's budget of a hospital's budget It doesn't necessarily mean new public dollars often these programs are Are stimulated by public dollars But we know the metaphor of the you know leaky bucket right once you start to plug leaks and keep money and industry And production local you actually increase the tax base right not decreasing So just like we hear in the climate change debate about how much money Vermonter spend on fossil fuels that is immediately exported from the state You got to think that one in ten dollars of vermont's food income is immediately Excuse me nine in ten dollars is immediately exported from the state What an economic opportunity to plug those leaks Keep dollars circulating local Create the kinds of tax revenues that that that we all need to kind of keep these models going But it requires coordination planning regional regional thinking regional planning which has also become a bad word in american politics Um, we need this more than ever well that if we were Going to try to do 50 percent of The food that we need and we're only at 12 Uh, that means we need three quarters the time three times the amount of land and three times the amount of Processing that we're doing right now to to reach that And if you add it in I don't know if that took in all of new england or just a specific region, but it Have you figured out how much land? Our our space it would take to require us to get up to that 50 percent of mark So again import substitution doesn't necessarily require a new land. It really requires moving away from a highly dependent vulnerable export markets towards Guaranteed contracts with local institutions and local local regional food hubs of us So it's really a question of transitioning As our secretary of ag just said that the number one demand among farmers in vermont is health with transitions, right? So, uh, we've got a lot of land in um In a single commodity-based industry That could be uh repurposed and transitioned to a new vision for of of a resilient vermont food system Well, it takes it takes an acre To keep a cow going You know if you've got a hundred cows you want to have at least a hundred acres if not more uh and so If it takes an acre or a cow and you could cut the the milk in the cow numbers down by You know 50,000 You'd have 50,000 acres somewhere in the state that you could Either grow veggies on or beef on or beef you'd be back to the acre or cow again But if you were going to grow vegetables to market I mean it seems like we'd have all kinds of Of land and we've got a lot of fallow land If you run up 22a from Down in fair haven up through to virgins I mean there's acres and acres up through there that haven't seen a plow in 10 years Yeah, yeah No, and this is that part of the vision is to move to our more robust agroecological system, right? With healthy soils that are sinking carbon with farms that are keeping inputs locally with a vision for moving more towards an organic agriculture That is substituting imported chemicals and and in grain that come into vermont for stuff that's made here locally with new production standards Um, this is this is the direction that our colleagues in europe are moving and I really think vermont could lead the united states in a truly agricultural renaissance and You mentioned early don't waste a good crisis. Um I don't accept the narrative that we have to kind of wait till this crisis is over to get going We need to start now We need to be tapping into for example the vermont stable jobs fund and saying part two of your report now As a very different context and a very different mission, right? It's time to build the resilient food system of the future Time to have a couple of high-level goals not these kind of market by market by market goals, right to really think the kind of food that we want Um, you know, I have the good fortune at dean at the university of vermont and uh, can have have the space to think more big picture And and I think that as as senator pierce said The lack sometimes a big picture of thinking for the state is what gets us into these crises Over and over and over again Have you have you had a chance to talk with? your president of the college There's because why I asked that Is you know, I've been around montpelier for quite a few years and spent quite a few days in the ag committee Yeah, and this year As the first time that a president of the university has ever called and asked to come in and speak to the ag committee, which I felt very good about and and was Yeah, he's very interested in in the ag sector And I think it would be helpful if Sometime you've got a chance to just visit with him a little bit to give him Some of that information Well, we're we're we're we're getting new leadership in the college of agricultural life sciences The college has continued has been moving more towards this food systems approach Um, there are some legacy parts of of that college like the department of animal science That is still very much tied to a commodity oriented heavy import production milk system Um, but other parts of the college are moving towards a more diversified more aggro aggro agroecological approach Um, I've worked quite closely for example with professor Ernesto Mendes Um, who teaches agroecology. Um, this is actually where the demand is from our students Um, they they want to come and they want to actually go into farming careers But in diversified small-scale local agriculture Um, so it's a huge opportunity for our state to lead the way Again, I'm not saying anything that is new or profound all the pieces of the puzzle are in place We just need a new mandate for our ag agency and a new vision from our state to move forward Other questions the roads Um, well, thanks john for your testimony. Um, I you may already know this but prior to The pandemic um, this committee was working on a bill and we got almost to the finish line with it on a bill that would Have done exactly what you were talking about with school foods and um, we also included our correctional facilities and in a sort of uh Both a mandate and also incentive program for increasing the percentage of local foods that they purchase Um, I don't think we'll probably be able to get back to that bill this session But maybe I don't know what the What but we have already been working in this direction and I just you know, I appreciate what you're saying I also want to give credit to all the work that's already been done Not just by us. I mean that's not my point but by so many people around the state That are working in this direction And you know my point about not wasting a good crisis is let's build on that work and And not And not discount what's already been done I think there's a lot of credit to be to be given to to people who've worked really hard And I was really heartened to hear I think it was abby from The agency of ag talking about all these partnerships that have been created in the past eight weeks Where people are working together even more than they have and people who used to disagree About sort of small things are now working together on big picture things about how to make things work So I just want to you know Provide a little bit of of you know, this there is good news out there and what we're doing and yes We need to move in this direction and we have to But it's due for all the good work that has been done I couldn't agree more and that's why I emphasize the pieces of the puzzle are in place I think this new strategic plan that that Both the the ag department and the vermont team of jobs one put out just in january Has some real important pieces of the puzzle the bill that you mentioned about Mandating local food purchase is a really important part I'll just I'll just say that we've all been here before These are exactly the things that have been talked about For a long time. I moved to vermont in 2002 and every year it feels like round hog day So, um, I think the opportunity now is very clear if we use the federal stimulus money If we use the money from vermont if we write new bills just simply to save an export-based commodity based agricultural system Instead of doing what our farms are asking us to do help with a transition to a more robust resilient vermont food system Then we'll have missed it. We'll have missed the opportunity. We had an opportunity Not quite to this scale coming out of the great recession Oh, this is a big one. This is a big one. I hope you all are bold and look to the future not just to the past But we're kind of laid back and slow, you know, we don't We don't like to get run over too often. Oh, no, we don't get run over very often Oh No, this is great, uh, john and and I I think michael has been on Our gradey our staff's been on throughout the conversation and and Yeah, I think I don't know if we as a committee will will get organized well enough to put something like this together, but Certainly one of the new committees That's working for like long-term goals for our You know that we should be working on in the senate We might be able to get something put together to encourage this Switch over and this long-term stuff We might be able to get something together to put into a package To move forward to us rose Yeah, I mean I have chris and I have been talking about a sort of bigger package and I sort of laid it out somewhat vaguely with some specifics for michael um, and it's sort of a four-part package as I see it and um And you know the the bigger picture longer term stuff is the part that's really vague And I think it would be really beneficial to have a full committee discussion About what we as the five of us feel like we want to get behind in support and what elements we want to have in there Me my four big picture, you know big bullet points were some sort of emergency Funding your part bobby for dairy and then then the other types of Ag that we had her testimony from last week. What can we do to help our? You know vegetable farmers turkey farmers goat farmers, etc And then the migrant farm worker piece that we just talked about and then the fourth piece which is the The more big but moving forward some of the things that john just talked about. How do we build? system changes to move into a new Form of resilient agriculture So those are the four big pieces that I think if we as a committee can put together a package for agriculture and include all of them not You know together it would be a stronger Coming from this committee Well, I think I think Yeah, that that's the way to to do but we're gonna I thought we would have a Like two or three Stages that we would go through Rather than tying it all to one Which could drag on for a bit The Yeah, I think we need to spend some time as a committee to sort Sort through all this And it's been very hard to For us to sit around the table like we do many times in Montpelier and And just gab about you know Well, if we do this it It really help over here, but it's going to take a little bit away from there and You know how we do to put all the pieces together where We're very lacking. I think but we We ought to try that one of these days just Just work on I miss our little room. It's I can't believe I would say that but I miss it Well, I don't know if I could if I could just add and just emphasize that You know, I think it's probably yogi bearer said right if you don't know where you're going you might not get there Um, I I really think We want to get to we just don't know quite how I for one as a citizen of vermont would like to see bold high-level goals like zero food insecurity in vermont like a livable wage for vermont farm families like A transition plan towards organic local food Um, so that I'm not worried about, you know pesticides and what bought my diet so, um, I think if we have those big bold goals then you can kind Kind of work backwards from there in truly comprehensive fashion I think the mandate to the vermont sustainable jobs fund has been a great mandate right to tie Farms to plate But um, they haven't gotten that they haven't gotten the mandate nor has our ag department gotten mandate to do more than simply, um, you know Save the past, you know It's it's a mandate to really lean into the future and I for one that's the citizen vermont want to know what that What you all think that future looks like Um, other questions for john If if not, uh, john, you'll get that that stuff sense to I'll send my notes to linda right now Yes, soon as I get offline here. Yeah, Michael. Thanks. Thanks a lot, john. I'm sure anything No, I'll just send along. There's there's about a six page Draft of a green new england deal that's been kicking around I'll get permission from the folks who have who have put that together to see if I can share that as well That should go to michael right But it's not a legislation. It's more of it like a it's a policy brief and then um What you're going to be seeing in the coming month or so is a detailed Policy briefs for each state in new england including vermont That I've that I've been advising on with a very very thorough inventory of What's currently being done and what we can build from? Okay, thanks Okay, well, thank you very much john for your time Now you've spent two mornings with us The one where you didn't get a chance to talk In this one, but we really appreciate your time and my pleasure ops and We'll uh, we'll be going forward um So I guess uh committee. Well, we're working toward noon So, uh, are there other issues I want to talk about Uh, moving forward and and time timelines and I didn't know if Some of you got meetings that On friday And I don't know if we're meeting Didn't isn't one of the special committees meeting or both of them meeting friday sometime I have no idea Friday morning from 8 o'clock to 10 o'clock Yeah, and then I think You know friday mornings at 11 or 11 30 we usually go on the floor and And we haven't been given Right now it says we're going to go on the floor on thursday morning On thursday right now Basically the plan is to go on the floor thursday morning at 9 30 I don't know how long that'll take us. I have no idea what we're going to do And then our transition committee meets friday morning from 10 to 12 I'm sorry. Well, no, I only know about the one I only know about the one I may have said 10 to 12. I meant to say 8 to 10 on friday 8 to 10 So so potentially ag could meet well for an hour and a half 10 30 to noon or something friday Yes friday Uh, you would you like to shoot for that? I would sure I don't know about anybody else, but I think I would benefit from Just talking Yeah, I'm trying to figure out how we could agree on a strategy like that Yeah, so why don't we just have a committee meeting of ourselves? For that hour and a half and and You know try to get things squared away and what direction We're wanting to go Good rose Yeah, that sounds great. I'm just curious bobby if you've gotten any information from leadership about pending legislation I can't remember where everything was but we had passed some bills out of this committee and I think they even passed on the floor The pesticide bill and the hemp bill. They're over in the house. I think I can't remember Else where everything else was but I'm wondering what what you've been told as to what can go forward um, well What I've been working with carol and coordinating our stuff and So she was going to take or has taken or going to take and any bills that we sent to the house She's going to send any changes they wanted back in the plane is ag bill Which is sitting on the notice calendar over there The the only bill we had in the system that was that was dragon was the Soil enhancement bill that chris messed up Not you chris the other chris The he hung on to in his committee. So we never got it passed it, but it was on notice Oh, the chicken bill Okay The soil enhancement bill. Oh, sorry So we've got that bill sitting on on notice But we also got Julie to extend That out till next year. So we don't need to really worry about that particular bill If unless we want to and we can talk about that on friday the only other thing That that we've got is you know, I've talked to the often on about Michael and I've been working on a milk pricing Type bill that would change the whole pricing structure setting up a committee to look at that a committee of professionals and We need we as a committee need to discuss that more And what I'd like to do with that after we what I've been thinking about doing with that after we have an Opportunity as a as a committee as a whole here to Maybe load that into one of these mid term long term plans that we're talking about doing So we I not that I know of I don't think we've got a whole lot hanging out there that that's not in a Way that we can't we can pass it with that miscellaneous bill that Carolyn's gotten permission from mitzi to allow that to move forward. So We're gonna have that bill which we can add most anything to so I told peter that we didn't have a whole lot to to As separate bills, but that miscellaneous ag bill You know, we really needed to get hold of The school food bill though that one we passed out a committee, didn't we? But it's probably on the notice calendar somewhere or no is it's in appropriations Yeah, that's right I'm gonna guess that's not gonna move forward given everything but there might be an opportunity to to put Some parts of it in this sort of transition and long term planning stuff because I think It will be important moving forward for both schools and ag Yeah, well, yeah, we can all ask We're gonna meet off and on the probes It all asks jane about stuff like that I mean the the value of school lunches has grown in in the public's mind. I believe fair to say You know the pennies to To help our local food get there got harder. I recognize but The value statement the more sustainable economic structure that that bill envisions The need is only amplified as far as I can see Yeah So, um Do any of you have any other issues that that I have mentioned or forgot about or No, I I would just say the soil enhancement bill I I It says relevant as ever it is not directly Um, it's not covet obviously, but if there is an opportunity That does strike me. There's no cost. So In terms of policy changes if we get the the green light, I would Personally like to see that advance. I think I think you know, we made it a little broader than the chicken issue and and uh We did that because of the need and the need still sits still still exists You really want to get that baby done? There's a good way to do it We just load it in the miscellaneous bill Y'all I'll I'll speak to carolin about it It if we did it And send it back and she agreed to it. It's over, right? Yeah and I mean Yeah, well, anyway, I just am not ready to not do it if there's a window. Let's take it Well, if you'd like to go hell the windows wide open No, if you want to do it, we'll do it. I think that's No, I'd like to do stuff like that Let's do it. So Michael doesn't have to work on it again next session So Michael figure out a real short amendment to the miscellaneous bill that will will take care of that And we can talk about it, but you're pretty good at figuring out The least amount of words the better anything anything else So Why don't we plan to meet friday at you want to meet from 10 30 to 11 30 and then if you've got meetings later, you know Uh, you'll have a chance to eat lunch or we'll start at say 10 30 Sure And go until noon if we have to or stop at 11 30 Sure That work Yeah No Okay, anything else I thought we had some good discussions this morning I'd like to get anson off Off And get going on that Stuff he's supposed to be working on but Anyways, I hope I wasn't too too hard on printing this morning But it's a lot It'll be a lot better this morning and that will be the next trip around I'll tell you that but anyways Any nothing else Just a question question for michael, um We talked about this last time and I want to put a finer point on it Is Is is jfo is ledge council and jfo working together to get us kind of ongoing analysis of How the covet money might be used So that's question number one um I I think Well, yeah, we're using the treasury guidance as the framework And then we're looking at specific proposals To see if we can fit them within that framework And just using this dairy assistance Proposal as an example The chair You know fleshed out what he wanted to do. I ran it by jfo. We all agree that it qualifies And we didn't need to do much creatively because it kind of kind of purely fits in those criteria With some of these other proposals that are coming out Just on your meeting. I I got one I think it qualifies for two of the three, but I don't see how it qualifies for the third And so we might have to be creative about that and and figure out how to do that So I think generally there's discussion Uh for individual proposals. I think we need to We need to use our imagination Um and but also be cautious Yeah, well, I'm happy if your imagination is is engaged and You know, what I I guess I fear is that I see uh Food resilience as a response to covet but what I'm hearing is That it kind of has to be a very direct billable covet reaction as opposed to In october What vulnerable vulnerabilities have we uncovered that we just went through that we'd like to Guard against because of covet But uh, that's not sort of an invoicable Expense is that That's not well said, but is that the theme? Um to an extent the the The key criteria is it has to be a necessary expenditure due to the public health emergency But then treasury goes on and and provides some Opportunity because it says that those necessary expenditures Include response to second order effects of the emergency such as by providing economic support To those suffering from employment or business interruptions What what what is that economic support? Right and I I think that you might be able to develop as a proactive economic support program For things like transitioning, you know the dairy pricing Is is uniformly uh negative over the next six months, right? and you can To maybe develop a program of business assistance for transitioning To something that's not I I think that that's economic support in my opinion from someone for employment or business interruption It's same michael that i'm sorry. I mean to interrupt. I thought you were done I'm done Well, you know, you're never really done, but it seems to me that if we're that The fact that vegetable farmers or other kind not non dairy farmers I've had the demand drop for their products because schools are out of session Restaurants aren't open whatnot that they've experienced the loss of income because of the loss of demand It seems like they should qualify under this for things like emergency grants or or loans to Help them get back on their feet or expand their operations or further diversify that kind of stuff It just seems like the farm that lost money because they no more demand for their product seems like it's qualified. Does that make sense? And I think you've got I think anson or abby I'm not sure who said that that the idle program emergency Disaster loan program foot from the feds that's now available to farmers and that's a 60 billion dollar program and it it would be available to to crop farmers but that this is also I don't know who originally proposed it But it it's part of senator hardy's for criteria And it's what I talked about the USDA whip the wildfires hurricane indemnity program It's basically a disaster relief program and if you have lost the value In your crops Then you can apply to a program for assistance or relief I think that that's something that that could be done What I find is a distinction is that that some vegetable farmers I hear are doing really well Doing better And that there's more demand for their product that and they're not suffering losses same with with me Um Whereas with dairy you have a federal market order which is setting their price for the next Five to six months and you know that they're going to suffer Um, so so I think Building you might want to build two different programs or build different options depending on the commodity Yeah Yeah, the what what I was sort of working out trying to structure and I had told michael about was more of a program that Covered expenses that were related to these farmers having to pivot because of of covid Um, like, you know, we heard testimony last week about having to set up a you know Pay a consultant to revamp a website and set up online ordering because of it or having to change revamp the way they're processing um facility works for the turkey farm Because of social distancing and all that that's required and so they're going to have to move things around and there'll be expenses for that or changing their transportation of workers so that they and uh I'd say for transportation or things like that that we are setting up farm stands So those are expenses that they have because of covid because they've had to pivot Um, and that's what I was trying to figure out because I think you're right. We haven't seen them lose necessarily, but they have increased expenses in order to maintain the markets that they That they have so Yeah, is that Michael, do you think if we're creative? Um, I I'm sorry. I'm distracted. I'm getting potential emergency calls on my phone. Um, sorry Uh, I What we'll do is try to keep your thoughts and jot them down and we can deal with this all Friday and because it will have an hour and a half or so of just our time and um, we can we can work on this Friday and then Michael can get back to his emergency phone calls If and if you know if there's something particular that you want Michael to dig out is that okay Michael if we get hold of you direct Yeah, definitely So we'll call you know if any of you've got something that you want to get on for friday But we'll have it down as just a general discussion Thank you, okay Anything else guys Good luck with your emergency Michael Yeah Thanks a lot guys if we don't see you before we'll see you friday Thank you. Bye everybody