Let's say you, you can squat and deadlift three, four, 500 pounds and you do it always wearing a weight belt.  Yeah, because you're not a mystery why that happened. Right. You think because you're stabilizing pattern is so conditioned to the belt that you go lift something light and it's the wrong way to stabilize because you don't have the belt on. All right. Here's today's giveaway maps power lift. You can get that for free, but you got to win. You got to win. Get it for free. Here's how you can do that. Leave a comment below in the first 24 hours that we dropped this episode, subscribe to this channel and turn on notifications. Do all those. And if we like your comment, we'll notify you. You'll get free access to the maps power lift. Oh, one more thing. We have another channel on YouTube called mine pump clips. If you want short clips of us saying really cool, smart stuff that you could share with your friends, go sign up to that channel as well. One more thing. We're running a sale all month long. The shredded summer bundle is 50% off. That includes maps, aesthetic maps, hit maps prime and the intuitive nutrition guide. So all of that together, 50% off. Plus, if you just want to try one maps program maps hit by itself is 50% off. You can find all of that at maps, fitness products.com, but you got to use the code June 50 for that discount. All right. Here comes a show. Lifting weight belts. Do they improve a safety to make it safer? Yes and no. In some cases they do. In other cases, they make things much more dangerous. Oh, you do want to be more controversial than that? Well, I think this is a good point. You're going to say something more alarmist. Yeah. Well, you know why I want to talk about this because it is true that you can lift more weight with a weight belt. So that makes the heavier weight safer. But here's the other side. When you train with a weight belt, often it teaches your core to activate in a way to where it's more stable with a belt on and you actually lose stability or lose the ability to stabilize without the belt. I feel like we're training dependency. We should let Justin open this one because he would have said something like, if you use a weight belt, you're a wimp. You're doing it wrong. Just offend hella people. Yeah, no, I mean, obviously for competitors and whatnot. But again, for average person, I could make an argument that it's like, I wouldn't recommend it. No, I actually, I've only had, I mean, a whole training career, two clients ever use weight belts and they were the ones that were really interested in progressing weight and they're getting real strong. And I'd explain, you know, the potential risks and benefits. But what happens with a weight belt is, and I remember there was these old studies that came out, I say old now, they're probably 10 years old that came out that said, Hey, your core activates as much or more with the weight belt than without. Therefore, weight belts don't decrease core stability. It's like, okay, that's not the full picture. But yes, it's active, but it's active differently. When you wear a weight belt, your core pushes out against the weight belt, and the belt creates stability. When you don't wear a weight belt, it braces itself and it's not pushing out against something. So if you try to brace your core, like you have a belt on when you don't, not a good idea. Now, if you think something heavy in real life and you're trying to use that same technique and, and you're bracing outward, you're going to put yourself in a vulnerable position. Well, and that's why this is so important. It's that exact reason right there. You get really strong.  Yeah, because you're not a mystery why that happened. Right. You think because your stabilizing pattern is so conditioned to the belt that you go lift something light, and it's the wrong way to stabilize because you don't have the belt on. So I almost never use them with clients. Like why, why would I? There's no real purpose. It's not if I'm training somebody who's going to compete with the belt or really we're pushing the weight and we're, you know, it's okay. We understand that the challenges, but also even look, I wear a belt because I was taught to wear a belt. So I've been doing it for so long that it's, I don't, this is my own personal thing. I don't want to take the time, which will probably take me two or three years to get to the kind of strength that I can use my belt by training a new recruitment pattern. So I just, whatever. However, if I deadlift, it's really my top sets that I wear the belt. I don't put the belt on until I get past, until I get past 400 pounds up until then I usually keep the belt off because I don't want to always wear the belt and you see people in the gym who will wear it when they do curls and try some press downs and it's like, oh man, you are conditioning yourself to stabilize in a way. That's not a good idea. So I know this was like popular in the 80s. I think it's sort of made a resurgence, but like wearing the belt constantly, sort of, there's this idea that it's like slimming the boxy waist, right, in the bodybuilding community, that's the little thing. I think that's part of it. I also think it's kind of a fashion statement, right? I think it's become like a part of your attire. Yeah, your attire as a bodybuilder, right?  Remember when you did that video game TikTok thing? Remember that? Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's totally that. You're wearing your uniform. You're wearing your atomics shoes. Yeah, it's become the, it's become kind of the bodybuilding uniform. I want one that says, Jim Hero. And you say you wear, I mean, you never use it. I rarely use it. And you still rarely use it, but use it a little bit more. I use it the most, I would say. Yeah, you definitely use it the most. I use it for heavy squats, deadlifts, and if I go heavy on an overhead press. But I would say you and I use it the same way. You just use it, you lift heavier than I do more often. I don't lift that. You lift a lot, you tend to push the weight a lot more than I do these days. Like I used to, when I was competing and I was pushing weight a lot more, I tended to do exactly what you do, which is I always had my, I work up towards getting closer to my max. So when I started to approach those top sets, you know, last two sets of a squat or a deadlift, I might put my belt on, if it is a day when I'm trying to push those limits. Cause there's other times where I'm lifting heavy and I won't use a belt either. It just, it'd have to be a day when I'm trying to push with my Mac, close to my Mac. By the way, those bodybuilding weight belts are terrible. The stabilization from a belt, a lot of people don't think it's from the back of the belt. It's not, it comes from the front of the belt. That's where the core pushes out. So those bodybuilding belts with the skinny front and the wide back. Yeah, wide back. You're not, they need to be thick all the way around if you're going to use it for that particular purpose. I've always wondered about that. Yeah. Cause I tried one of those on and I was like, oh, this doesn't feel good at all. And every once in a while, you actually catch somebody who knows that and they'll actually wear it reverse, reverse.  Like, well, there's wearing his weight belt backwards, but he's got one of those skinny bodybuilder belts where it's skinny in the front and then it's wide in the back and he actually flips it around. Ideally, you get a powerlifting one that's, you know, all thick, kind of all the way around. But as far as the waist thing is concerned, you know, you got to understand when you're talking about pro bodybuilders who they have a level of muscle and size in their body that nobody, most people will never achieve even with all the drugs in the world and whatever. You'll just never get to that point. Their muscles build so much and they're trying to develop a physique that's perfect for bodybuilding standards, which is not what most people would consider looking good in real life. That wearing something to brace your core causes the core muscles to atrophy or at the very least not build. So I can see why they would say it helps prevent my waist from growing.  Promoting a shape that it's not necessarily. It's weird though that it got popular. It's like, and I know we've picked on him a couple of times, but he just, to me, he fits this physique so perfect.  And I just, I didn't think it looked good. His obliques were like straight. It just, you had no muscle definition there cause he wore that all the time. And yeah, it might've made his waist a fraction of a quarter of an inch smaller or whatever, but I don't know, to somebody that understands the body and stuff like that, I think that like a defined obliques, it's not like, it's not like obliques grow like this, right? Like you just get this, like this is how the muscle wraps around the body. Like it doesn't, it would create this kind of look, which would only enhance the V, which will only enhance the taper look. Like so, look, I always thought it was really funny that, and I don't know where it came from, where if it was a judge that told a competitor that decided to try and do that or how it became popular. Some genetic anomaly had a really like small waist and that became the next standard. I don't know, I don't know. I don't know, man. I would all day long trade a quarter of inch on my waist for developed obliques.  Cause they don't grow, like you said, they don't grow out necessarily this way. You have to really build your obliques. Dude, director, spinae, and obliques, dude, that's like what looks strong to me. Oh, yeah. Cause you're an athlete guy. Dude, this guy, you're an athlete guy, that's why. Those are very important muscles for an athletic physique. Absolutely, for sure. You ever look at the sculpture of Hercules, ancient, like old sculpture of Hercules, or ancient Greek sculpture? Yeah, they all have boxy hips. They have well-developed obliques because in those days, they understood how muscle looked for function. They noticed that athletes and gladiators and whatever, that could swing a sword and move. They got really well-developed hips and well-developed oblique muscles. So that's what they put on the statues. And in real life. Yeah, it looks awesome.  In real life, it looks more impressive. That's why I think it's weird that it got popular in the space. I never personally heard a judge say that. I never heard a judge go like, oh, if your waist was smaller, that you would have placed higher or whatever like that. So I think it's, what ends up happening is I think that, for example, our friend, Craig Capurso, has a very boxy physique. It's also what made him a beast, man.  Yeah, he looks sick. Yeah, right. But when you put him next to someone like me who's tall and lean and has a very tiny waist, I look like I have this more pronounced v-taper. So I think it's just people that are built that way, looking at people that are built, kind of like me thinking that, oh, that's the way to achieve that, what has nothing to do with the muscle. Have you guys ever seen, there was a bodybuilder from the 80s? I think it's Doug, maybe you're gonna look him up. I think his last name was Buchanan. Look up small waist bodybuilding Buchanan. And he had, it was genetics, obviously. He had a genetically- It's a lot of bees in there.  You ain't gonna develop that. Oh, when I vacuumed in, I could almost get my- Yeah, yeah, yeah. When I vacuumed, when I was lean for a show and then vacuumed all the way in, I could almost get my fingers to touch. Your own waist. Yeah, wow. That's how it sounds. Especially when you had your shoulders all developed like that. Yeah.  Great, great for getting on stage and prancing around, but horrible for being a really strong lifter. Look how small this guy's waist was. Oh, wow. He was known for, I mean, but that's genetics. You ain't gonna develop that. Yeah, and that's what I mean. So I think people, I think what happened was you had the bodybuilding community would see this, and then you would be somebody who had like this, like wider hips.  It's gotta be the comparison thing, right? Yeah. And also too, wasn't there a period where there was like this distanted kind of gut that was happening- Oh, that still happens. Because of growth hormone and all that? That still happens. Yeah. And what happens from, they think it's from combination of the drugs. Like insulin or- And insulin growth hormone, and they also think, believe it or not- Because growth hormone makes everything grow. Your forehead grows, your organs grow. Over time. You take enough at the bodybuilder doses of that growth hormone, and you gotta think all those intestines and all your organs- You ever look at Barry Bonds? You ever look at a picture of Barry Bonds head? Yeah, yeah, yeah. His head, when he started baseball, and when he left. No, I'd love to see the comparison though, right here and right here. Oh, bro. His head before and after is like, I don't know if you can build your skull. That's what he did. You know, their teeth will space out. Okay, so now, pretend we have a situation where we're training someone that are relatively new in the space or into lifting, and where is a scenario where you would actually even allow your client or encourage your client to potentially use a belt, and where would you for sure tell them, no, what's that look like? I would use, so I used it so rarely, but the times I dug was a client, for example, I used the belt at times, and it was because he started to get really strong, and we had a lot of fun pushing the weight. And so I said, do you want to use a belt? We could lift more weight. We'll start to push your goal. His goal was to go, I think your goal was double body weight at one point, and then two and a half times body weight. Yeah. Oh, Doug, you used a belt? I did. Oh, I've never seen a belt on you. Oh, I never wear him now. He doesn't, but at that time, his goal was to deadlift, if it was a 400 pounds. 405 was my goal. 405. Did it match your purse? My purse? His belt. Oh, my belt? Yeah. It was a Gucci. A leopard grip? Gucci belt.  But, I mean, he pulled 405 at 150 pounds body weight. Yeah, that's what you did. Significant, but, I mean, the goal was to do that. Him strength. And I had one of the client that I would do that with. Yeah, I think knowing what I know now, I actually wouldn't, the only person I would is if we had the desire to get into powerlifting. Yeah. If you came to me and you said, I have a desire to get into powerlifting and in the meats that you work at or that you've decided to lift in, allow belts or straps or any of those tools. Any of the tools. In that competitive setting where they require that. Because you have strongman training, you know, on some degree. That's right. If you have to learn how to use the tool, right? Also, using a belt, you don't just put it on and all of a sudden you feel way stronger. There's actually a skill to use. No, some people actually feel a decline. If you've never lifted with a belt, you've been lifting for 10 years. I can tell he feels uncomfortable. I've seen him wear a belt once or twice with us. Yeah, I've tried sometimes with this. He prefers to take it off. Yeah. Just because, yeah. It doesn't work for me. Yeah, you have to develop the skill and the practice of it. No, what you said is, that's the right answer, 100%. But you know, like I said, Doug was like really pushing it and obviously at that time we were doing max phantabolic together and he's like, I really want to be able to pull two and a half times my body weight. And so we said, all right, let's use a belt and let's see what happens. But now he never uses one because he's in care. Yeah, I think the myth that, and why it's still popular even though, like because obviously we know we address the body, but why normal people gravitate is they have this idea of like, oh, if I'm going to start getting strong and lifting heavy weight, I want to use a belt to protect my back. No. That's the, I think that's the thought process on what leads a novice lifter who is getting stronger to go use a belt is the thought process of, oh, I'm going to start lifting heavier weight. A belt is going to help support my back. So in case it gets a little risky, I have that support. The same reason why you see sometimes construction workers or people at Home Depot and they're wearing the construction belt where it's actually a weight belt, but with straps over shoulders. It's straps over shoulders. And what they don't realize is they're actually atrophying those core muscles and teaching their body to rely on that device. So although it might feel more stable at first, over time it actually, well, not a good idea. I mean, in that situation, a lot of times like they've gained weight, you know, they already are having like back issues at home because they're maybe more sedentary than all of a sudden now they're in an environment like that where they have to like lift constantly. And so, you know, the thought is, well, let me just like protect myself with that instead of like training their core to get stronger to be able to handle it. Yeah, totally. Anyway, I wanted to bring up a cool article I thought about Adam immediately, but I'm not going to tell you, I'm going to use the scientific term and I'll tell you what their names are. So scientists were able to revive tardigrades. Tardigrades in, they were frozen in permafrost. So they were frozen in permafrost for 2,400 years. So literally, sorry, 24,000 years, my bad. So 24,000 years tardigrades, these tardigrades were frozen in Siberian permafrost. They took them out and they were able to be resurrected come back alive. You want to know what else they're called? You love this animal. We brought them up before it. They were on the moon at one point. Oh yeah, yeah. Water bears. Yeah, I was going to say because we left traces of them on the moon.  What do they do? They do look like little worm, man. What are they in charge of? I don't know what they run. They have a purpose, don't they? They do anything, Doug? I don't know. Or are they just there? Oh my God. Microscopic, what is it? Yeah, look, do you know what they're named? So they're called water bears and they're also called moss piglets. Moss piglets. Moss piglets. They look like that, right? Plus they eat moss. So what do they do? What does it say here? Okay, they're nature's pioneers, colonizing new potentially harsh environments providing food for larger creatures that follow. Oh, so they're the first kind of food? Well, you see. They're the first responders of them. So do they can live in extremes so basically they can hibernate then in a sense reanimate? Yeah, dude, space. You could put them in a, freeze them? You could put them in hot temperatures? Now you said we found them in the moon. No, we didn't find them on the moon. That would have been life on the planet. We accidentally spilled some on the moon. I think we brought them up there. Yeah, we accidentally contaminated, yeah. So how did we figure that out? Because we brought them up there. Oh, like in a jar? We literally bought these things and they were on the ship, I think. Yeah, I don't think they brought them in a jar. I don't know how they brought them but I know that we dropped them on the moon. It sounds like a real fishy story to me. So, okay, I'm assuming these things are so tiny we can't see them to the naked eye. I believe so, microscopic. Yeah, of course. Yeah, microscopic. So, you, we get to the moon. Yeah. We accidentally dropped some of them. Okay, let's back up here. How do we, do we decide? Hey, let's pick up some of those water bears and let's go to the moon. No, it wasn't a decision. I think it was just- Or they carry, we clean. We carry them on us. No, no, no, no. Things properly. No, no, I think we took them on purpose. What? It looks like an Israeli mission and it crash-landed on the moon in 2019. No, we took them on purpose because water bears are great organisms just to take to harsh environments to study because they don't die very easily.  Well, because isn't there another organism that's like, you know, survives in super harsh conditions? It's like, you know, in the sea floor where there's these columns that come up from like- Oh, they're like the tubes or whatever? Yeah, like tubes. Oh, they're like some kind of polyp or like, yeah, they're organisms that live in like the most acidic like harsh- I know what you're talking about. Aren't jellyfish like that too or no? No, jellyfish are weird though, man. They live for, they live forever though. I think jellyfish, I think theoretically a certain types of jellyfish could live forever. But that's why it's silly. We've already discovered there's life on other planets.  Well, now we haven't discovered life. What life do we find on other planets? Mars and bacteria. We found evidence that there may be life, but we haven't found life yet. That would be the biggest news of all time. Dude, they found, okay. Evidence of it. Yeah, evidence of it. That like there might have been. It's, to me, that's ridiculous because all it needs is a comet to smash into and spread some kind of bacteria or some kind of like microscopic organism. Yeah, water bear, whatever. And there it is. Speaking of that, so remember a long time ago. I can't wait for this transition. There was a, they called it the cigar comet. Yes. Do you remember that? Okay, so like, and then they started to speculate that it was like a UFO. So apparently there's like pictures from Google Earth of like a crashed vessel or whatever it was. And it looked like it was that cigar shaped object that had actually landed and then skidded across.  So they never reported it. Yeah, so it's in Antarctica somewhere. Of course. Yeah. With the ancient, with the, with the hidden Nazi super base. Yes. Is that where that's supposed to be? There's a theory that there's a Nazi super base underground in America. I can't believe you guys had the space in those brains for this type of information. That's just way more interesting. You're such wicked. Then what is going on in politics and government? You guys could have built like, you guys could have built like a different department for this business that's wasted space. I have no idea. It's way more interesting. I don't know their knowledge. I don't know the history of every tennis shoe ever invented. I don't. Yes, you do. You're always telling me like the history of your shoes. This is the, this is the seventh generation. Actually the third generation, the creator, his mom died. So he was inspired by, what the fuck? This designer took it on and is now selling it for like three times the price of it. Normally it was just by adding these little, all right, all right, all right. Get the point. You're into what you're into. Yeah, that's fair. Anyway. It's funny that you guys found each other. I'm so happy for you. Hey, we all found each other. We all found each other. We hugged sometimes out of the podcast. This happened. That's true. I mean, I do, there's a part of me that likes hearing about it. I mean, I'm curious.  That is true, actually. No.  Yeah, someone brings me a conspiracy theory. I'm like, oh yeah, the guys talked about that.  I knew it. Bill Gates is now in the business of manipulating the weather. Whoa. Oh, shoot. That's the new one actually. I just saw that.  Really? Yeah. Is it harp still or is it something else? Something else, like, yeah. So moving his attention from a choir. Is it all the farmland now to like, yeah.  I mean, he is, look, I'm on paper. The guy's an incredible philanthropist. He's the biggest. He's the biggest. He's the biggest. By far. Yeah, by far. By far. A lot of controversy though around him. Yeah, a little bit. I listened to his white Melinda's interview with David Letterman.  If you guys haven't watched all his stuff. I only watched his relationship with Epstein. I only watched the one with Ryan Reynolds because Jessica was with me. So which one do you think she picked? Yeah. Ryan Reynolds. That one actually was really funny. I watched that one. We need to watch this one, Sal. I'm like, oh, I wonder why. But I think you're back to your weather talk. Your tinfoil hat stuff. I think China, I think that article I read said that China was already doing this. Yeah, they do cloud seeding. That's been around for a long time now. And so now they have like drone technology, I guess. Yes. They have some kind of electrical impulse and they stimulate it somehow that way. Tickles the clouds. It sounds so made up. Hey, cloud seeding. Do you have a picture of that? It's like that though. It's a real thing. It's science, yeah. And that noise happens immediately after it. Wee! Hey, we've known we could seed clouds for a long time. The problem is we can't predict if it's going to work or not or we're going to cause some flooding somewhere else. But you know, China, they're like, get the water now and let's just see what happens. Yeah, let's just go for it. Have you guys seen the plan, speaking of tinfoil hat, have you seen how there's plan, like speculation or talks about how we could potentially spray certain things into the air to help lower the temperature because of climate change? I'm like, this was the matrix, dude. That's what they did to the freaking machines. Darkened the skies. Can we learn from movies? Movies teach us a lot. It's just weird to me to think to spray some chemical in the air to try and change the temperature and not think that that might have some sort of side effect. Oh, we sprayed too much. All the plants were dying down. Anyway, speaking of plants, just read a study on THC. So did you guys know that THC reliably negatively alters your vision? Negatively. Negative. Now, why would they prescribe it for glaucoma? THC. Glaucoma's totally different. So glaucoma's internal pressure in the eyeball and it does alleviate that. But in this particular study, so here's what they found in the study. Gave people THC, had them do vision tests, their depth perception.  That's what I'm saying. So that's it. It's temporary. Right, right. Oh, you thought it was over time. Oh, yeah. It's not. No, it's temporary. Oh, temporary. Oh, yeah, of course. Yeah, well, I'm hella high. I like how Adam's looking over there talking to me. No, my vision's fine. No, so it's temporary. But when the study, a majority of people while under the influence said, no, my vision's totally fine. And when they tested them and said, no, no, no, your depth perception, your ability to decipher between objects, your ability to see things clearly is severely. You think you're doing it and you're not. Well, so this is good. This is good because there's this debate as to whether or not THC should be regulated like alcohol when it comes to driving. Because in some cases, it doesn't impair your ability to react in whatever like alcohol does. OK, it still does, but not like alcohol. However, it does impair your vision. So that's part of the case. How do you feel about that? Do you think so?  I think I definitely don't think it's like alcohol. I would feel much safer driving in a car with someone who's stoned than someone who's drunk. But it definitely doesn't make you a better driver. Or it definitely has a negative effect, you know? So why is that so quiet? I don't know how I feel about that.  Heaven forbid I say that on this show. You've got to be crucified for something like that. No, I just want I don't know if I'm a big fan of regulation. Plus, I don't know how they will regulate it. That's the challenge. And it will turn into. Because it stays in your system so long. Yeah, it stays in your system so long. So what's going to happen now? Like if I can't drive, I smoked weed freaking last night. And there's levels too, right? Totally. In terms of like somebody that's like super high. You don't want somebody to. I mean, they'll probably drive two miles an hour and it'll be obvious. But at that point, everybody reacts to it differently too. So that's why I was bringing that up. My experience of someone being really high and driving, and I know you say you're you're not, you know, it can't be safe because you're somewhat impaired.  You're yeah, you're paranoid. So you're overly cautious. They've done studies on that. So alcohol has has this effect on you, which I think is not. I think it's obvious to everybody in here. It makes you overestimate your ability.  Right. Like, oh, she's totally like me. Marijuana has the opposite effect where you underestimate your ability. Introspective. Yes. So I don't know if I could drive right now or maybe I shouldn't go talk to that. So they say that that's one of the bigger differences between the two is that when you're drunk, you think, oh, I'm all cool. You oftentimes, you know, a theory is if someone's really stoned that they're going to be like, no, I probably shouldn't. You know, I'm can't like taper the effects though with CBD in combination with the CBD helps with the paranoia. And it also reduces the memory effects. So the short-term memory gets affected with chronic. But not sight. No, let's consider chronic. Yeah. Let's consider chronic. Chronic use? Yeah. Ooh, that's a good question. I think it's more than once. And is it, is it, oh, once a month? Sorry, more than once a week, if I'm not mistaken. It's considered chronic use. And is it dose dependent?  Yeah, I'm sure there is a difference. But yeah, the challenge is testing the levels in someone's system because it's a fat soluble.  They stay in your system for so long. So you can't necessarily test someone and see how impaired they are like you can with alcohol. They have yet to come up with that. But we used to, look it, before breathalyzers existed, do you know how they tested you for alcohol? They had a field sobriety test. We still do that, you know? They can't, they do still, right? They're doing combo sometimes, yeah. Yeah, so I think that's what they should do. Like, oh, I think you're two stone. Well, let's see if you can walk in a straight line and. See, I like that, yeah. I feel like that. See if you can refrain from eating this cupcake. Yeah. I dare you.  Woo! Get this guy in the back of the car. Oh, God. I got the visual on that. I have a few tests for you. Okay, here's the first one. Do you think the birds are listening to us?  Oh, yeah. Here's second question. Are they spying on us? Watch SpongeBob for five minutes. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Don't laugh. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, yeah. SpongeBob. You know, speaking of marijuana products and stuff like that, I was just thinking about when Doug and I went to Utah, we both were having a hard time sleeping there. Couldn't get the temperature right in the house or whatever. And I go mellow direction and you go, are you sleep or the regular spectrum? What are you using? Sleep. Oh, so you're using. So you're using Ned's sleep. Yeah. Which is strong. I haven't used that in a while. Yeah. That will put me to sleep every single time. Mellow is like that for me. Really? Mellow is like clockwork. I mean, that thing is. It chills me out. Yeah. Of all of our products, I use that. The most, most consistent. You do one packet every night? Mm-hmm. Okay. Have you tried two? I haven't tried two. Oh, yeah. Yeah, no, I haven't tried. But because when we met with Dr. Cabral, my magnesium was so low that I think he has, so I think one of my supplements I take in the middle of the day has magnesium in it. And then again, so I am taking a higher dose now than what I was before, which I can't tell you if I've connected yet a difference in my sleep. I think I was so low before that introducing mellow was such a game changer for me that like it's now become a staple if I'm gonna get a good night's rest. You know, it's estimated that a majority of people, I think upwards of 60% of people are somewhat magnesium deficient. And the symptoms of magnesium deficiency, mild deficiency are increased anxiety, nervousness, insomnia, muscle contractions aren't so good, so you might feel a little shaky or like you're not as strong. So, and the beauty of something like mellow is there's no cannabinoids in it, right? So they have, Ned has a lot of hemp products, hemp oil products, legal in all 50 states, right? But mellow, no cannabinoids, if you're deficient in magnesium, you'll notice if you take it, like you'll take it and be like, oh, I can take it. Well, and I'll tell you, I didn't have any of those symptoms you just listed. So I recommend if you're listening to at least try, like that's, because it was such a big deal for me. Well, yours was sleep though. You had stuff with sleep, right? Yeah, but I didn't have like insomnia, you know, or I didn't think I just, and I would attribute my occasional bad sleep to just like my brain going or what like that, like, so I didn't, I wasn't like a chronic bad sleeper. So I didn't have any of these like glaring symptoms that made me go, oh, I need to try. Honestly, I only tried mellow because we were sponsored by their product.  And it was so shocking to me, how great my sleep was that I was like, no way it was from that. And then I took it again. It was like, again, it was like, and then you know me, like I'm not the, you're the one who's quick to like right away. It's like, oh my God, it's amazing. I'm more like skeptical. Like maybe it was something else, but after consistently doing it, I mean, it is every time I take it, it just helps me sleep on a whole other level. It's become one of the more popular products that they have. Yeah. And like you said, I think 60% It's a need, yeah. 60% of people are deficient in it. And that's all it is. I don't think there's anything. I mean, of course they have one of the best sources. You know, speaking of deficiencies, now that we've had COVID for a while and it's been around and they're studying it, I mean, they're really connecting vitamin D deficiency and glutathione, low glutathione levels. I've brought this up before, but they're now connecting those two things to severe COVID, like most of the time, if you have severe symptoms, you're low in one or both of those things. So just, you know. Did you hear that they're starting to try and debunk the long COVID? I saw that article. So what did that article say? That it doesn't exist? Yeah, just saying that the more and more, there's something else that is correlated with the people that claim they have long COVID symptoms that all have in common. That's not related to actually COVID. Weird. I forgot the name. Didn't you send it to us? I did. I sent it to you guys. Maybe you guys can bring up the article. Like they all had a deficiency in something or were unhealthy in a different direction? Yeah, so like, so what the study was showing or what it was revealing was that, and I wish, you know, again, we'll share it in the show notes so you can actually read it, but it was showing that everyone who showed symptoms of quote unquote long COVID also had something else that the research is showing that that is what contributed to that. Oh, here we go. Okay, so earlier studies, I'm gonna read it, I just found it. Earlier studies had already hinted at this as the majority of long COVID cases occur in those with pre-existing access to psychiatric disorders. So what the study says, the study found that there was no evidence of long-term COVID infection in patients who were six or more weeks removed from the onset of symptoms, even if those patients reported that they were experiencing long COVID. Further, the study found that individuals who reported having long COVID were disproportionately women and individuals with the history of anxiety disorders. So it could be that you have an anxiety disorder, you're in the middle of a pandemic, you're bombarded by media telling you, oh my God, everybody's scared, you're gonna die, whatever. Then you get it, and so then the lingering effects are psychiatric, not from the virus itself. That's kind of messed up though if you're that person and the doctor's like, it's in your head, Karen, you're just anxious. It doesn't matter at that point, right? If you believe it, right? That's true, that's true. I mean, if you believe it's true, then it is true in that sense, right? Wow, that's crazy. Hey, did you guys watch, who watched Dr. Strange in here? Yeah, what's that? What'd you think of it? Which one of you guys? Take a guess. What'd you think about it? You know, I thought it was entertaining, it was good, but it was kind of weird. So the subject matter was pretty dark.  I thought it was good, but you know, it goes so crazy into the multiverse, twisted, weird, like there's different worlds and stuff like that. That part's kind of interesting. I've heard a mixed review, I've heard people loved it, but then I've also heard people say it sucked. I liked the first one a lot. That was my favorite. This one was like, yeah. I think it's just inevitable when you have like the follow-ups, they try to like add a whole lot of other layers and it was just like, I mean, they still kind of pulled it off. The worst case, I can remember in terms of like how it got really got away from them when they add way too many stories going on at once, was that one Spider-Man where you had like Venom, then you had the Sandman guy, then you had like Hobgoblin or whatever. It had like way too many like side stories going all on at once.  You know what's interesting about the Marvel universe now is that all of them that they're showing happen after Thanos made half the universe explode and with his fingers and they all came back. Yeah. And it kind of makes me sad. It makes it kind of less powerful. Remember the, okay, remember the big, you know, Avengers film where Thanos at the very end. Infinity War or Endgame or whatever. He got all the stones. He snapped his fingers. Half the world turned to dust. Half the universe disappeared. Okay. And then it was like five years later and they figured out a way to go back in time apparently and fix it. I don't remember exactly what happened. I can't remember, but they brought back those people but they came back five years later. So everybody lost five years of time. Apparently you don't get Iron Man back? Yeah. And that, yeah. So it's just like, I don't know.  Yeah. It made me a little bit sad. Yeah. Yeah, I've heard and mixed reviews. I haven't watched that one. I have heard consistently right now is everyone saying that Top Gun is movie of the year.  I really want to go see it. I've just seen one negative comment and people are saying best movie ever. I haven't seen anybody say that. Better than Rocky. Best Love Story. No, stop. Stop. Our generation's love story. Yeah, it's the best love story ever made. Oh my God. Top Gun won an Oscar for music. Wow. Because it's the best. Rocky got best film, best director and something else that was really good. What happened to I had the tiger though, you know, fell short. Bro, what do you mean? They still play that at the gym. Play, okay. Go to the gym. Is there a Top Gun music on? No. Here's a fun fact. I know that in Karate Kid, that song, they're the best. Around. Yes. That was supposed to be in Rocky. It was? Yes. But they pulled out a tiger in the stand. Hold on a second, hold on a second. Really? Yes. Was that Frank Stallone? Bill Conti. Oh, Bill Conti. So is Rocky, Sebastian Stallone's brother? No way. He composed music? He composed music in, I think, Rocky IV or some of the Rockies. Okay. Yeah. So his brother. What a nerdy, random fact you have there. That's awesome. That's something you would do. This is my cousin. He's gonna be doing the music for the movie. He's just been playing on the computer for the last five years. I know a guy. He'll be cool. Yeah, I know a guy. I got a guy.  Anyway, this woman messages me, and she says, hey, I think it was, I wanna say Map Centabolic. I just started following Map Centabolic. I went into a cut, so I dropped my calories from 1,800 to 1,500 calories. And I've been doing this now for five weeks, and I'm getting stronger. And her question was, are my calories too high? So of course my response is like, that is, you are perfect. You're nailing it. Absolutely perfect. But she thought her calories were too high because her strength is just like, I was expecting my strength to go down. And what I told her was, and this was in Twitter, right? So what I told her, going back and forth, I said, if you go in a cut, and you know it's a cut, right?  It doesn't get like, that's the sweetest spot you can be in when you get leaner is if you don't lose any strength, or it's rare, your strength goes up. If you do that, that's like, you are perfect. Everything's perfect, you're going great. Great place to be. You know, speaking of Twitter land, how is it going for you? Oh, it's good. It's the most negative side of me that you'll ever see. Somebody got, somebody on there messaged me and they're like, what can you just be more positive? I'm like, dude, 99.9% of all the content that we put out is positive. Right. This is where I get to be. Let me just do this. I need this journey. Let this out.  So that's that. I don't feel like you're angry. I think you're... Compared to how I always am it is. It's just that's that side of me, right? That comes out. Yeah, but do you think that it...  It's because there's mobs there. Yeah, like it just seems like they can, everybody can kind of collectively like gang up on people a lot easier in that platform.  I mean, I'm paying attention.   But then it also strikes up a lot of good intelligent debate and conversation.  You know, we live in this weird time where everybody wants... It's definitely not positive though. Like I'm not on there thinking. Oh yeah, you were not in there. We're not there to help people in fitness. No, I mean, I do. I do talk about fitness on there, but that's like some of it.  And so I'm not thinking to myself, how can I help people? That's not what I think when I'm on Twitter. I think like, here's what's going on. Those short like quick-witted ones, Elon Musk does, I just can't help it. Like it's so funny to me. Like he just nails his tweets are so great. The most retweeted tweet. He has the highest. Yeah, it was after he was about to buy... It was the Coca-Cola one. After he bought Twitter, he's like, next I'm gonna put the cocaine back in Coca-Cola. The most shared tweet of all time. That's actually, you know, I think that is, I'm not 100% sure, but I thought I heard him say that this is what led him down the rabbit hole of figuring out how many fake accounts there are. Because he just kind of did some rough math real quick and thought, okay, if I have the number one shared tweet in the world, right? Record most, and it only had so many. It was like 50,000 or something. Yeah, I don't remember what that, no, it was more. And it was millions, right? It had millions. But it was nowhere near the percentage you would expect. Yeah. From the entire base. Yeah, it was like less than 5%, right? He's like, how am I the most shared tweet in Twitterland? And it hasn't even broke 5% of the entire population in there. It doesn't make sense. Yeah, it doesn't make sense. And so that, I think that was what actually sent him down the rabbit hole of trying to figure, where is it, where are they with that right now? Do you know? I don't know. I think they're trying to push him to take action because he's like, first I want to confirm how many bots and now they're like, no, you have to buy it. And they're kind of doing this thing back and forth. Yeah, so you see he was coming at Bill Gates for being behind some of the campaigning against him. This was like what, to short the stock of Tesla? He shorted the stock of Tesla, which he sent Bill. Bill Gates.  I own the number one company in the world that is researching and developing the most power move on them. And you're shorting my stock. Did you see what happened to him with the ESG? No. He got pulled. What do you mean? Tesla got pulled. Oh, I saw that. Tesla got pulled. So you remember how I brought up a while back? I told you guys about what ESG scoring is coming out. Tell me that's not political.  Tell me that's not political.  BP is on that list. Yes. Exxon is on that list and Tesla gets removed. Off that top 100 companies that meet the requirements for, ESG, what does that stand for? Environmental. Social and something. Doug, look it up, please.  And Tesla got taken down. It's a massive virtue signal. The big oil companies are still there. Environmental, social and governance. Yeah. Tell me that's not political, dude. 100%. That's so ridiculous. 100%. I know, in fact, that he gets pulled off of that.  Makes me annoyed. Such a joke. Talk about one other thing that's kind of weird. Sometimes I wish scientists would just stop. But through using CRISPR technology, they genetically altered hamsters and made them extremely aggressive. What was their motivation? So they made hamsters.  Yeah, like mean fighting each other. Little gremlins.  I'm like, dude. They are trying to create gremlins. That's exactly what I thought of right away. What are you guys doing? The closest thing to a gremlin to me would be an angry hamster. Yeah, right? Yeah, or that movie Critter. Remember that one? Oh, yeah. Poor movie. We got to put a picture. So yeah, what is the point?  I think they're just trying to learn aggression and genetic and how genes play a role. But they literally turned them into angry killer hamsters. How funny would it not funny? How crappy would it be if a couple of these hamsters escaped all of a sudden? There's like the lamest B movie ever. I mean, the more you talk about the killer hamsters, the more you hear of this stuff and you couple that with the metaverse and what's going on with that. Tell me like player one doesn't seem so realistic to you. Like the whole concept of player one to me is just, I mean, it was really neat when it first came out and seemed ahead of its time. Hey, Tommy, go outside. Mom, there's killer hamsters. You got COVID-27 and whatever. I'm going to stay in the metaverse. Good luck there. Yeah, here it's nice to see you. Where I'm a unicorn and I can fly. That's what I do. No, I think you're right. So wild, man. Oh, one more thing. So this is actually pretty cool.  She's trying to work on her diet. We're talking about supplementation. She works at Whole Foods. And she was trying to implement protein powders. But we're getting her to avoid dairy right now. So I sent her Organifi protein. Loves it. Absolutely loves Organifi protein. Aren't they? Using it regularly. So great for people who have dairy intolerance. Just digestion. Because we're trying to increase her protein intake because we're trying to draw up her carbohydrates. So we have to make up the difference in calories. Plus, I think it's going to benefit her. And she's giving me great feedback. So I've already sent her two jugs of organic. Is it Organifi in Whole Foods now? I could have sworn. OK, did you guys see the someone in our threat in our forum? You might be right. Someone in our forum thread last night or the night before. Oh, that'd be cool. New person asked about what we thought about athletic greens. And they were asking basically the forum. Like, have you guys heard of the athletic greens? Inferior, no. Well, I mean, athletic greens came after us, right? So they came after us to advertise. Yeah, I don't know enough about it. And they're great. They're actually up there, if you were to, I would consider them up there with Organifi as far as their quality and their taste. They're actually really good. Donna's truth is Organifi is a little bit cheaper. And then they offer way more products and we have a relationship with them. So that's why we blew them off. But a solid product, but more expensive. And I would say, you know, equally as beneficial or as good as far as the ingredients. But what I saw on the thread and why I'm bringing this up is that a bunch of people were talking about how much more they like Organifi, especially the new Apple Chris. And they said, like, it's always on sale at Whole Foods. So I don't know if it or a grocery store. I thought it was Whole Foods. Oh, I did not know that. Well, I mean, I'm not seeing it online. But well, I mean, either way, she gets it through me because it's free through me. You want to go to that thread? Well, I tell you what, though, what impressed me is if have you ever had a family member or friend who's never taken protein powders, try a protein powder very hard to please them because for some reason they equate protein powder to like a milkshake. Yes, they want all tastes. Yes. And she was like, wow, this is not bad. I got the chocolate. This is actually, you know, not bad. So I was really, really happy. Because I told her, I'm like, look, it's a protein powder. Yeah. It's not. It's serving of a function here. Yeah, it's not a milkshake. So understand that. No, she responded. She'd been using it regularly. Yeah. So it is delicious. I'm really happy. Yeah. Hey, real quick, check this out. We put together a forum on Facebook that's managed and run by Dr. Stephen Cabral and his team. Some of the best functional health practitioners you'll find anywhere it's called MP Holistic Health. It's on Facebook. It's totally free. So you can go on Facebook, join this group and ask questions, listen to live conversations. It's a great community that'll help you find root causes of some of your health issues. And it's incredibly valuable. And for the time being, totally free. Again, it's MP Holistic Health on Facebook. It's a group. Anybody can go in. All right. Here comes the rest of the show. Our first caller is Dustin from Texas. Dustin, what's up, man? How can we help you? Hey guys, I've been listening for roughly six months. And definitely just want to thank y'all first and foremost for all the free content y'all put out. It's outstanding. It's really helped me for sure. Thank you. Awesome. Yeah. So just a little background on me is like I've been doing strength training for about two years, 2018 to 2020. Not really knowing like how to eat, just kind of going to the gym and doing some like compound lifts that I knew how to do and spending 20 minutes on the elliptical. And I definitely got stronger, but there was for sure a cap because I wasn't following like the things I know how to do now and whatnot. So sort of fast forward to 2020 and COVID hits and I can't get back in the gym. And we had a Peloton bike in our house. And so I was just kind of riding that five days a week to try to stay in somewhat some kind of shape and was just not really liking how my body was looking over time, getting really frustrated with that. And so that's kind of when I saw ads pop up for Tonal. So we were really interested in it. We had a lot of conversations about it because big investment, but we got one and leading up to that I was dedicated.  So I got that about last May. And so I've had it for about a year and my strength gains have been awesome. Like it's undeniably been incredible for me personally and how I feel and just my overall health and how I feel about my body and everything. But you guys had a discussion recently about free weights versus machine training. And I thought it was really interesting and wanted to see sort of where I've fallen in this spectrum where the tech is obviously leaning towards machines. But I'm wondering if I might be benefiting from like a free weight workout every once in a while if I incorporated that into my programming. The Tonal definitely offers a lot but I'm wondering if I'm not building enough stability that I could be in the movements that I get from a dumbbell or a different kind of workout. Oh my God. The short answer is yes. You do the occasional free weight workout, it'll be great. Just from the novelty alone. Now Tonal, it would be comparable to just the cable machine in the gym. And of all the machines that you can use in the gym, I find the cable machines to be the most valuable because they're more like free weights than like machines in the sense that they can move in different directions. You can adjust the angle. You're more free with the resistance.  Well, that was just gonna get there. Like it's hard to get sufficient resistance for lower body as you get stronger. You know, when you're trying to, you know, if I squat with over 300 pounds, I'm not gonna do that really well. We have a Tonal. We have a Tonal in the gym. We don't highlight it or show it, but we have one. And I think it's cool, really cool for upper body. And a cool supplemental tool.  And it's something that we intermittently would use for upper body and still would rather use free weights because the benefits that you get for free weights are much greater than what you're gonna get from cables. That being said, that doesn't mean that you can't build a very fit, strong physique using a machine like that. I mean, it just really depends on your goals and how far you wanna take this.  Do you have room for like a PRX rack which they fold into the wall and a barbell? Would you have room for that? Yeah, we could put that in the garage. Oh, dude. That's where it's at. If you got yourself a PRX rack, a barbell and some, you know what you mean? You could add dumbbells. Maybe you don't even need them because you have the cables from the Tonal but I would go dumbbells, barbell and the rack from PRX plus the Tonal. You're good. You basically have the, I mean, essentially have the wellness studio that I own for almost two decades where I train clients. And that's almost all I use was cables and barbell and dumbbells. So you can do almost everything with that. So yeah, but I mean, look, if somebody said I only use free weights would I benefit from using cables sometimes? The answer would be the same. I'd say yes. So that, there's stuff you'll get from one that you won't necessarily get from the other. So it's a great combination. Yeah, but that being said, okay, the person who's using the cables is missing out more on- Yeah, if you had to pick one or the other, yes. Yeah, then the person who, let's say if there's two different people, one person's limited to nothing but dumbbells, barbells, you have another person that's only limited to cables. The person that's only limited to cables is missing out on more than the person who is only using dumbbells and barbells is missing out from the cables. Right, right. But if you added the rack, you got everything. 100%, you add that PRX right now that you can squat, deadlift, barbell overhead press, barbell bench press. I mean, those are the big movements that you are missing out on with something like the tonal that that in itself added with the tonal would be awesome. I mean, cause I do think it's a really cool tool. I just, you know, part of your question was too like where we think tech is going, I don't know if tonal and mirror and those things are gonna make it. I think they're, I think they're grossly overpriced for what they, what they give. It's really, it's a cool toy. And if you've got money and can afford it, I think it will hit a very specific demographic of people that can afford to have a toy like that. But for what you get with a PRX rack and what the cost of that is. Well, here's the thing about tech companies. They always love products that, you know, they can consolidate everything to one place, right? And then they're gonna sell you really hard on that as being like the answer to all your problems. And that's just marketing and that's, you know, what they're trying to do in terms of like efficiency and they're gonna always highlight that and hype it up as, you know, the one size fits all because that's how you sell it. But in reality, you know, we get a lot of benefits from this variety of different methods out there. And so it is a cog in the wheel, but it's actually a smaller cog in the wheel than, you know, the free weights.  You go to our houses, what are you gonna find? A rack, barbell, dumbbells. That's it. And adjustable benches. That's all that's in my garage. That's what you'll see in our houses.  I don't think we're gonna see radical advancements in strength training from an equipment standpoint. Our bodies evolved to get stronger, to lift objects in the real world and free weights mimic that far better than machines or cables do. Now, again, I'm not saying they don't have value. I do think they have value. And I don't just use free weights, but I don't think anything will be invented that'll be better than free weights if we had to compare head to head. Just how our bodies evolved, you know, lifting things. It's a cool tool, though. I mean, I love that it has the variable resistance. So, again, it can emulate like you have chains. Hey, follow programs. It can adjust based off of how much effort you put into really cool features. So, yeah, I'm not knocking it at all. I actually love using it, but again, it's just for a novel stimulus for me. Yeah. So, now, go ahead. I was just gonna say the favorite thing that I get from it is just like the raw data on myself. Oh, right. Well, that's what it does. You're not gonna get that with free weights.  It's definitely dumb. So, no, if that's what you value, you're gonna get that really well with a tonal. You're not gonna get that at all. And I really think that's who, I think that's who, I mean, obviously tonal as a company wants to target everybody. The reality is it's not gonna appeal to most people. It's gonna appeal to the number junkie who loves all the data and the feedback and the person that can afford something like that. And I think for those people, it's pretty frickin' cool. So, I think it is a neat thing like that. But for what you can get with the PRX rack and Barbell and so at that, the price, I mean, you would have spent half the money and you don't have to pay a monthly subscription and the amount of variety that you have in just those few pieces of equipment is greater in what you'll get bang for the buck. Yeah, if you add it to what you have, Dustin, literally you'll have like a gym setup. Yeah. And we have a link. I think it's prxperformance.com forward slash mind pump and then that'll give you a discount. So that's for people listening right now if they wanna take a look. Okay, awesome. Yeah, I appreciate all the help guys. Thank you, man. Thanks for calling him. Bye. Yeah, it's funny, I did a post today on Twitter and I said, it's good to question old wisdom. Is that a post or is it a tweet? Tweet, you're right. It's a tweet. So I know. I'm old. Come on, Twitter guy. I did a twat and it says, is that what you say? Tweet my bad. And it says, sorry Doug, shaking his head over there. It's, and it said like it's good to question old wisdom but don't do it blindly because it's like, what's that saying? Like don't take a fence down unless you know why it's up in the first place. Old strength training wisdom is that free weights tend to be superior. People love to question free weights and love to say this machine is better and that machine is better. Generally speaking, it's just not true. You're just gonna get overall better effects for the most part. Of course, I think there's some machines that are better than some. Well, training and exercise a bit of an anomaly when you think about it like that, right? Because almost everything else, everything from nutritional science to cars to computers and tech, like everything continues to evolve and improving it better. And what we have today is better than what we had 20 years ago. But to your point, here's an area where it really hasn't. I mean, barbells and dumbbells have been around for a long time and all these cool machines that have came out that are really neat and look cool and hit different angles and give you different variable resistance. None of it is better. I mean, think about that. What else is like that? What else? It adds value, but head to head competition. No, no, yeah.  But we can't say the same about resistance training. Yeah. I think, again, like to, you know, going back to the tonal, I think it was a, it's a good bridge in terms of like taking your average person that would never work out. Like instead of them just jumping on a treadmill, you know, like having that simplified sort of experience to get them introduced to resistance training. I think that's super valid, but it's really expensive. So if they can figure that out. That's crazy expensive. It's really expensive for your average person. So it's like a big commitment at that point, right? So yeah, but I think at some point, just more of these sort of chum in the water and getting people to feel like they can now kind of at least take those first baby steps with something like this is valuable. I'm so curious about, in fact, it's funny that we got a question around tonal because they have been on my mind with what's, I mean- Yeah, now the pandemic's over. Right. Are they still seeing that growth? Yeah. I mean, the subscription on top of that's a lot. Well, like the Peloton. Peloton stock exploded during the pandemic and just tanked afterwards because the demand dropped considerably. So I wonder if that's the same thing with- It's gotta be. I mean, now I know that it was propped up. Here we are in the middle of NBA finals and the NBA season's coming to an end and they also partnered with LeBron James and he's been promoting and stuff like that. So it may be propped up by some great partnerships that they've made. But I remember when I talked to Brendan about the stick rate and what they claimed with people that were consistently using that thing and I just don't, I don't see that. I don't see that sticking around for that long. I don't see people paying that much money for something like that. That is also inferior. Maybe you could convince people to do that if it was technically a superior product to a barbell and dumbbell, but because it's not and it's more expensive, eventually, and to your point, Justin, sure it's a great, someone who doesn't know any better and is a tech geek and he goes, oh, this is really cool when they start using it but if they really get into it and they do stick around long enough, they're going to find out that it's not. They'll move to freeway. Yeah, they'll move to a sort of the next step. That's right. They'll go to the next step and they'll progress their training if they want to continue to progress like their physique and they'll move away from it. And then they will, if they have it and they already paid for it, intermittently use it because it's just not the end all be all. Our next caller is Ben from North Carolina. Ben, how's it going, man? How can we help you? Hey, how are you guys doing today? Good. Great. Awesome. Well, you guys, I'm going to start by saying kind of what everyone says, which is just thank you for doing what you do. I really, really... So it's awesome to have a podcast like this that's not only so consistent is the way you guys release it but also just how helpful you guys are with taking people like me on to answer our questions. And it has been really nice to have something that I can just like play on the background that's like really relaxing and pleasant like that. We'll also be able to learn something that I love that doesn't like wind me up and stress me out like a lot of other things you could listen to. So I really appreciate that. Thank you. Thank you, Ben. Nice. Yeah, totally. So I'm just going to read my question as I wrote it to avoid rambling forever. And it's regarding the, I just bought match performance and it's regarding the weight and tempos specifically in phase one. So I'm having a hard time finding a weight that's adequately challenging within that low rep scheme while also being able to maintain that fast, explicit tempo that you don't prescribe. So like for example, with the barbell back squats it says five sets of three reps, but in order for me to be properly fatigued and just three reps, the weight I have to choose is too heavy to do those explosive concentrics. So it's like I have to go either super light for the appropriate tempo, which leaves a lot of reps in the tank. And I feel like I didn't do enough or go heavier but with a really slow rep speed. So I'm wondering like, am I missing something or am I just overthinking the question? Really good question. Yeah. Yeah, no, it's okay. So there's explosive plyometric type exercises. And then there's explosive heavy type exercises. Phase one is heavy. Heavy, yeah. So the intent is to be explosive, not to move quickly. Does that make sense, Ben? So like there's one of the phases is explosive, in which case you want to move quickly, but phase one is heavy. The goal is to lift explosively, but you're not going to move fast because you're using a high load. Yeah, this is where a lot of the yelling comes out, right? You're trying as hard as you can to move the weight fast, but it's not moving. And that's the whole point is the grind in that concentric part of the lift for you to basically generate as much force as possible as you would like you're trying to jump and accelerate out of the hole. This is a really good question too, because based off the intent, you're not wrong either way, right? So in other words, in this case, because it's in phase one and we want you loading the bar heavy and you're not going to be able to move it very explosively, we want you to choose a weight that is challenging and you're not probably going to be able to move it the way we want you. You're going to try to. Yeah, you're going to try to. But it's not going to move fast. But then if it was our intent to move explosively and this isn't a heavy phase, there's actually nothing wrong with you not feeling fatigued afterwards. This is a mistake that people make with explosive training sometimes is they think that, oh man, I'm moving such a lightweight. I need to go heavier because I don't feel sore. I don't feel fatigued. Or like you said, you have more rest than tank. That's okay. We're training speed and explosiveness in that case, right? So if it was a lighter phase, that would be the intent. And so it's not like one or the other is necessarily wrong. It's that the way we programmed it in that phase for that program is we do want you loading it and we do want you to attempt to move it explosively knowing that you won't be able to. That doesn't mean that I wouldn't also train you in a fashion where I go, okay, now we're going to move a really lightweight and I do want the bar to move really fast. And I do expect you to not feel sore or fatigued afterwards because I don't want you to be fatigued. Because the goal is to move it fast. No, very well stated, Adam. I mean, if you were in a phase, I think what phase is it in performance where we do incorporate plios? Is it four? Three. Okay, so when you're in phase three and you are doing explosive plio type movements, the goal is to move faster and faster, not to move more weight. So if you do, let's say a weight and you're like, ooh, that's light. Next set, I'm going to add weight. Don't, just try to move it faster. In phase one, if you're using a weight and it feels too light, you go heavier. Now the intent is to move explosively, but you're not going to move fast. It's a heavy strength phase. It's not a plio type phase. I hope that makes sense to you. Does that make sense to you, buddy? How do we make it worse? Yeah, yeah, so I guess, so how does that differ from like what would be in like anabolic, for example, where it's like, you know, that's still like three reps is like the general range for like some of the squats or bench presses, but like you're not, you're still trying to push the weight off of you. So is it more of just like you're pretending like you're trying to move it really fast? I mean, yeah, but it's not really different. It's not that much different, but now, and think of it this way, like as us, like educating you while also training you through this, right? Anabolic, we're not really communicating things like that. We just want you to think about form, slow, controlled performance mindset. Yeah, now we're shifting you into a performance mindset. And so we're trying to teach intent here, although it's going to look almost identical to anabolic as far as how the barbell moves, but now we're trying to shift your way of thinking of, but now you want to try and do it in explosive, right? So where we're not really communicating that in an anabolic, although for a consumer, this is why this is such a, this is a really good question. This is really good. Yeah, we haven't gotten to the... Yeah, we haven't had a chance to actually ask you else. It'll look like a squat and anabolic and a squat and performance phase one, both of them look the same. Performance, we're just communicating just new things and differently. But psychologically it's different, right? It is. Because yeah, you are focusing on what kind of force production you're actually promoting with this because that's going to then translate into like your phase three where you actually do triple extension, you do these plyometric explosive jumps. What you're doing is now it's free.  You're using the same amount of force you were going to do when the demand is crazy on your back, but now you don't have that. And we're trying to prep you to be able to, you know, really maximize that output. Yeah, to the outside looking in, somebody who's watching me move the weight and anabolic and performance is not going to be able to tell the difference, but I am thinking differently. When I'm moving the weight and anabolic and I'm thinking more of like the eccentric part of the exercise, I'm resisting the weight on the way down. I'm really working a little bit on range of motion.   When I'm moving it in performance, I'm really, I'm thinking about bracing my core and when I'm at the bottom of that squat, I'm really trying to push off my heels and drive out of the hole. But because it's heavy. It's more of a fight. Because it's heavy and the other, the people outside don't know what's going on in my head, they're going to look at it and go, oh, it's exact same thing. But I'm already starting to shift the way I think about movement and performance. And so it is different. It is different. And so this is such a good question because I don't think we've had an opportunity to really communicate the thought process behind that. And I don't think anyone's asked us this question like this. So a really good question. And yes, they will look the same, but you are starting to shift your mind more into a performance base. And that's what we're starting to do with you in phase one. Got it. Yeah, that totally makes sense, especially what Justin said about contextualizing it, how once you take that weight off, you go lighter. Now you have that like explosive mentality, so to speak, so you're able to actually perform. That's right. That's right. But it's okay that the tempo of the axle lifting is not because I remember when y'all, like three or four years ago, when y'all did that like week, Sam where you put up all the first week of everything. The guy demoing the exercises was going really fast. He was coming out of it, but like, you know, but you know, three reps can't really, you would have so many leftover, but that's what you had made sense. Perfect. Yeah, good question, Ben. Thanks for calling in. Yeah, thanks guys. Appreciate it. Awesome. That was good. I don't think we've had, we haven't had too many questions. Yeah, I mean, intention is an important aspect of how you lift. It really is, but it's good. I mean, it's true from the outside. It's not going to look very different. But that's the kind of, you know, those details of like what we discuss when we look at trying to acquire certain type of attributes and skills and this is a totally different focus than say anabolic and the reason there, obviously it's that performance mindset. Like we're starting to prep you to get into that and how do we develop that? Our next caller is Jessica from Toronto. Hey Jessica, how can we help you? Hey guys, I'm a one-time listener. I really love the content you put out. So thanks for taking the time to answer my question. Gonna try to keep this concise, but I also want you to have enough context. So for a little bit of background, clearly female, 29 years old, 140-ish pounds, about five-three.  Never really on a consistent program. I'm fairly certain I have been over exercising and under eating. So for a little bit of context on the nutrition side, I do track on and off. I've gone through students who have tracked for like months and months, times when I haven't. When I do track, I'm around, you know, the 1200 to 1400 calorie range. And then in terms of exercise, I'm usually doing about anywhere from, you know, 12,000 to 16,000 plus steps a day. And any mix of cycling, hits, strength training, all running, a whole bunch of things, you name it, usually working out multiple times a day. So where I'm at now is that, you know, doing all of this stuff, I feel like I'm putting in tons of effort and just not seeing any changes in my body composition, in weight, anything like that. So my question really comes down to, is there a way for me to sort of start fresh? Because, you know, I'm doing a lot of, you know, listening to your content and research. I understand a lot more now, but I feel like I have just probably crashed. My metabolism not crashed it, but it's definitely down-regulated. And so my question really is like, is there a way to start over in a sense? Because I know I'm at where I am now because of the lack of consistency. And so especially on the nutrition side, I'm not really sure where to go from here. Like, is it possible for me to even be in a deficit? Do I jump right to maintenance? I don't even know what my maintenance would be right now. And then on the training side, I actually just purchased and just started MAPS Aesthetic. So I'm curious if you think that's a good program to start with. Yeah. Your assumption is right. Yes is the answer. And we probably would start you on anabolic instead of aesthetic first. Yeah, of course you got aesthetic. Yeah. That's the high volume version of MAPS. You can get your way there, but where you're currently at, we would want to put... And by the way, Doug, when's the episode go live that we just did about the starting the macros and everything like that? When does that go live? Yeah, I think on Sunday. So air the day before, or a couple of days before this one does. Oh, so it'll air before this. Okay, so you're going to get an ep before this one actually goes live. They're going to get an episode that actually talks, we take you step by step through like what this would look like, finding out what your maintenance calorie is, how to start to add calories and build your metabolism up. So I think that's perfect for you to listen to, so we can go into like really good detail. And then anabolic is where I would actually have you turn. You're in a position now where your body is, it's become very efficient and it's probably concerned mainly with just treading water and healing from all of the workouts that you're doing. And so this is why your body's not progressing. It's why it seems to be frozen in place and maybe even going backwards a little bit. At some point you'll start to get some negative hormonal effects as the stress begins to overcome your body's ability to deal with it. How long have you been listening to the show, Jessica? Lately I've been doing like a lot of it, like a deep-dive rabbit hole, but it's been on and off for probably the last two, three years. Do you trust this? Yes. Okay, ready for this?  Okay, now the reason why I'm asking you to trust this because I know that just based off what you're telling me, going on a bulk can be really hard for you because you're going to be afraid of gaining weight.  Ah, what's going to happen to me? But I would follow maps anabolic. You could do the three days of foundational workouts. So you don't have to do the two, you could do the three. And I would take your, if you're eating 12 to 1500 calories now. 16 to 18. I would go 16 to 1800 calories. And stick with that for a few weeks. Once everything settles, you feel good, then bump it up another 100 to 200 calories and then repeat the cycle. And what should happen is you should start to see yourself build some muscle. And then with that additional muscle, you'll see a speed up in your metabolism. Once you get your calories up to 23, 2400 calories and you're feeling good and you're eating a lot and everything's going great and your strength is good, then you can reverse out and start to cut.  It'll just, it'll just come off cause you're going to be working with your body and not against it. But you need to go on a bulk. You need to go on a maintenance. I would add a maintenance into a bulk. I would, I would abandon the scale in the mirror for a little while too. I mean, really just focus on getting stronger. If you are increasing the calories as low, I mean, we're only bumping a couple hundred calories. So you're going to be fine. You're not going to put on a ton of weight from that for sure. So, but I would abandon the, the scale. I wouldn't be focused on how I look. I would be completely focused on your strength in the gym. Yep. How much, how much, follow anabolic to a T just the way it's laid out. Any activity outside of that walking. Okay. So no, no treadmill. No hit, no hit, no sprints, no doing anything crazy like that right now.  Yeah. That's it. Totally. But that's it. Start with that. And aesthetic is too much volume. Okay. Got it. Yeah. So we're sending you anabolic. And then Doug, can you also throw her in the, you have Facebook, Jessica, are you on Facebook? I do. Okay. So we're going to throw you on the forum too so we can keep an eye on you. Awesome. Thank you. I really appreciate it. Yeah. It's just a great time of year to think about bulking, right? So that's it. That's the mind part too. Okay, Jessica, you know what might end up happening? It's always a challenge. You might actually get leaner. You might get, you might get, you actually might start to look like you have more definition. Don't look at the scale though, because if you gain a few pounds of muscle and lose one pound of fat, you'll be positive two pounds on the scale, but you'll look leaner. So forget the scale. But I bet if you do what we say and you trust it within three, four, five weeks, you'll get comments like, huh, you look like you're getting leaner. Like what's going on?  Right now you're working against it.  And if you keep going in that way and you'll lose, you'll lose that weight. If you do a good job of targeting your protein intake, so focus on that with your nutrition and eating whole foods and slightly increasing the calories, just a few hundred like we're saying and falling anabolic, I actually suspect you will see your physique actually improve in the direction that you want it to improve right out the gates, even with us telling you to go on a bulk. So if you do it that way, now if you are inconsistent with a diet and you like throwing in drinking days and eating out a lot and stuff like that intermittently throughout us trying to do this, well, the process might be a little bit slower on rebuilding that metabolism and getting you where we need to be. But if you actually stick to whole foods, increase those calories, make good choices as far as protein intake and then follow the program, I suspect you'll actually start to even like the way you're shaping up as we're on a bulk. All right, sounds good, I appreciate it guys. Hell yeah, thanks, keep us posted. Well, dear, thank you so much. You know what I like about these questions is that they know the answer, they just want some information, because she's like, I feel like I'm overeating and overeating, it's like, well, you are. What do you think the percentages of people that hear that advice actually take it? I think if they talk to us personally, it's a higher, it's probably a majority, not a hundred percent. I think a lot of people do exactly what I probably do because you and I are on the other opposite of the inner spectrum, right? And I think they get, and I remember this and I remember hearing it and I remember thinking it and what ends up happening in the hardest part is sticking to it. Because what will happen a lot of times is someone will hear that, they trust us, they're like, okay, these guys know what they're talking about. Exactly, they'll do a couple of weeks and they'll see something. They'll get spooked.  That's what would happen to me all the time. When I would start to reduce calories to potentially lean out, so I would potentially look better, it would also pull all the carbohydrates out of my muscles so I would have this kind of flat kind of look which you all know of experienced if you've been in a cut before. And it would look to me like, oh my God, I lost like five or 10 pounds of muscle.  And so the opposite is normally true when you're telling someone to bulk. She of course is gonna increase calories which means she's probably gonna increase carbohydrates which would gain a little bit of water. She's gonna hold onto a little bit more water and so maybe she goes to button a pair of pants up or put a T-shirt on and it's fitted a little different and it's only been a couple of weeks that she's been listening to us.   So I bet you that happens most of the time. If you've been listening to this long and heard us preach this message, I think you believe us, but then for some reason you always think you're the anomaly. This is like a tipping point. You're the anomaly.  It's like, no, it's not the case. Our next caller is Matt from Australia. What's up, man? How can we help you? Hey, thanks for having me on the show. Hope it's cool for you guys to have an Aussie on the show, Florence. Yeah, we love Aussies. We're welcome. Yeah, basically I was seeing these videos online like on Instagram. First was for a seated road. These influences seem to think that the best way to do a seated road was to kind of lean everything forward.  And then kind of similar, but I guess different is with RDLs as well. I was always taught the safest way to do an RDL is retract this scapula. Have that flat back and have that safe spine position. But I've seen some people claiming that it can be better to do it with rounded over shoulders and your arms tucked in by your side. So yeah, I guess it just kind of goes against everything that I've learned as a young personal trainer about like safe spine position. So I was just wondering to know like curious to know what you guys think. Is there any value to doing exercises like this? And is it dangerous? Yeah, no question. So here's the thing. So address each one individually Yeah, because okay. So you're gonna get a lot of variations on different exercises communicated by people who have lots of experience who can say target this part of the muscle more if you change your elbow position or if you do, like in your case this row, I know what you're talking about where they roll the shoulders forward. This gets the scapula to protract and you retract it, but you lean forward a little bit. When you do the row, now it's gonna hit the lats more than the upper back. Like what they're talking about are variations on exercises that may have some value. So it depends on what kind of variation is being promoted. Well, let's talk about that one right there by itself. That exercise or the seated row, a quick example, I train it with a rounded forward scapula where I've let it stretch and retract. I teach it straight back. Yeah. Well, I was just gonna- Well, because you gotta start there. Yeah, good point. You gotta be able to stabilize properly first and be able to really get the benefit of that before you move into it. It gets a little more advanced once you get into the row. Very much so advanced. You have to be- You have to have really good control. You have to have very good control of your scapula. Most people don't even, I mean, if you've been a trainer, you've probably experienced this.  Have you had to do that? All right, that's it. And an experienced trainer knows this. So if I can't even cue a client to retract- I'll hold it that way. Yeah, to retract their shoulders. And I actually need to manually pull it back so they can feel it. I'm certainly not gonna teach them an advanced seated row where I'm asking them to protract their shoulder girdle and then retract their shoulder girdle in the same fluid movement. That the ability to do that is very advanced, but awesome for the points that these guys are telling you. And that's why I love- They're valuable. That's why I love to do it because I have that kind of control of my scapula. So that's why one I do, but another one I teach. So that addresses that exercise. The rounded back on the- With the bar close to you or the arms close to your sides, I think that just changes the leverage a little bit, probably allowing more of a stretch. I'd have to try it out. I'm trying to envision it. Here's a good rule of thumb, Matt. All exercises, if there are any variation of an exercise, any variation, however crazy it looks, if it's performed with good stability, good control, good mobility, if it's being supported by the muscles and not the joints, then it's a safe exercise, okay? That doesn't mean it's necessarily valuable because I can do a million or one different variations and a lot of them may not be valuable for the person that I'm training, but they're safe so long as they're done the way that I just said. Now some exercises require far more skill in control and stability and mobility and require more strength than other versions of those exercises or other varieties. This is where it can get a little bit dicey and there's easier versions to train and teach than there are versus other ones like Adam said. That's why you see them in certifications, all that neutral spine and supported spine type of lifting because that's how you wanna build your foundational base with clients and then you can move into rounded back type lifting which is very much more advanced and has to have a very good understanding of their body and mechanics to be able to pull it off properly because you do face those types of lifts in the real world. You're not always gonna be in this perfect neutral spine and this is something that other camps will argue and say like well versus barbell lifts or things of maintaining a neutral spine but there's a way to do that in their steps to get there. There's prerequisites to be able to pull that off properly and have that kind of body awareness and understanding where you can control it and provide support. You know what coaches that do this online are your virtual coaches. Your coaches that have minimal experience training people in real life but have trained themselves for 10, 15, 20 years. They're in great shape, maybe they even competed, they have a great physique, they've trained thousands of people online but never really in person. They give tips like this all the time. It's actually one of the things I love to address when I see it online. When we have some friends of ours that I have a lot of respect, they're really smart that are in the space that I catch giving tips like this related to exercises that sometimes they can't get out of their own way because they're thinking about themselves and what they've learned and it's like oh, when you protract the shoulders like this you get a better stretch on the lats and you take it through a full range of motion that makes this big case of why it's better but it's like okay, so you've got to a place. You just excluded 85% of people watching this. That's right, that's right. You just literally took out 90% of my clients because 90% of my clients that I trained in real life are people that don't really care about lifting that much but know they need to be in there that have no clue how to retract their shoulder girl like and they need help like laying down a solid foundation and the nuances that you are teaching right now are so beyond the majority. It's like I don't even want to waste my time getting in a battle with you on why I don't teach it that way. That's what I see.  And it's counter. Yeah, it's counter. Oh my God, I got to click on this, this is the opposite. Yeah, and then they support it with science and facts. It's right, it is true. Get a full range of motion, better connection and oh, you're gonna build potentially more muscle. All that is potentially true but when you're a real personal trainer who trains real people most of the time and average normal people, here's where you have to be able to kind of shift through a lot of the noise online and go like, okay, yeah, sure, that may have some value but when I think about my clients that I train, how many of them even have the ability to articulate their spine like that?  I could tell Sal to do some weird posture with his deadlift and he can do it controlled and safe and with good weight because he has that much control the deadlift. I couldn't do that with any of my clients though. So as a trainer, you have to keep that in mind when you come across content like this that you see online. Is that where you saw this, by the way? I'm just assuming. Yeah, yeah, Instagram.  Why is this person saying it like this? Yeah, yeah. Well, have her listen to this so then you can say I told you. Yeah, yeah. You're on the right track, Matt. You're on the right track, Matt. Yeah, I appreciate you calling in. Thank you. Yeah, thank you. No problem. You know what's, this reminds me of, I love using this exercise as an example because it looks so wrong. The Jefferson curl. If you, if anybody that isn't an experienced coach or trainer, really experienced saw anybody doing a Jefferson curl, even if they did it right and controlled them, they would run over to them and be like, no, don't do it. Yeah, but I mean, it's, and why? Because the high skill, you need to have a lot of control. You need to understand and range as a motion with your spine and how to stop just short of that. So you're just supporting it with muscle and most people just don't have that stuff. Olympic lifts, phenomenally valuable. Such a high skill though that I never did them with any clients because the amount of time it would take to teach a client. Well, you said it perfect already. Yeah. Any movement, any movement done controlled and safely could be a good exercise. As ridiculous and as weird as it may look, if it has a purpose for that, and that's why too, I'm always, I caution trainers who are new and they're learning and like they just figure things out and then they love to criticize people that they see doing weird funny shit in the gym.  For all you know, they can work for the circus.  You don't know what they do for a living. And like, and if they can do it controlled and safely, it has, it has potential applications. So yeah, but I mean, as a coach and a trainer when you know how many people that you train and the type of person that you train, this is a type of stuff. I mean, this kind of reminds me of some of the, like our good friend Eugene who we get into, which I wonder if that's who he got this from because I have a feeling he did. You know, he gives really cool tips that I like, you know, as an experienced coach and trainer who can do all the stuff. But when I think about my clients, it's like a lot of this stuff is not. Who needs the most coaching? Yeah. It's not, yeah, people that already have a pretty good understanding. Totally. Look, if you like our show, and I know you do because you're watching, go to mindpumpfree.com and check out our guides, tons of free guides that can help you with almost any health or fitness goal. You can also find all of us on social media. So Justin is on Instagram at Mind Pump Justin. Adam is on Instagram at Mind Pump Adam. And you can find me on Twitter at Mind Pump Sal.


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