Donald Trump is demanding Boeing make a cheaper Air Force One. I don't know about you, but I'm all for cutting corners on any airplane Donald Trump is flying on. It's 3 a.m. Tuesday, February 21st. Today's show is brought to you by you, the listener. On today's program, Andy Kindler, Najeen Farsad, Angela Cobb, and my old friend, John Ross. Stay with us, we've got a lot of show. The David Feldman radio program is made possible by listeners like you.  I love Bill Maher. I worked for Bill Maher for a very long time. I worked for him, I had been working for Dennis Miller for a very long time, and Dennis was for the war in Iraq, and I started working for Bill. And it was a very exciting time in my life because Bill was the only one who was questioning the George W. Bush administration and the war, which was illegal. And it was dangerous and he was brave. And working on real time was the best job I ever had. And the biggest mistake I ever made was leaving to go work for the Union busting John Stewart. Biggest mistake, best job, best riding staff, it was a think tank. All that being said, I watched real time last weekend. I watched overtime with, I won't even mention his name, with the Breitbart editor who is British and is flamboyantly gay and trashes Muslims, transgender people, Leslie Jones. People should watch real time with Bill Maher because it's a great show and Bill is incredibly brave.  For normalizing a sociopath right out of the Nazi playbook. This is, I'm watching him and it's like a character from Cabaret.  He is far more dangerous than Ann Coulter.  But this is what really irritated me because I watched a little of it and then my stomach turned. At one point, this guy said that transgender people are guilty of sex crimes.  This conversation about what goes on in bathrooms and why transgender people should be banned from certain types of bathrooms. And then Larry Wilmore said, well, let's see a stat and that just breezed by everybody. And now it's been planted in people's heads that transgender people are more likely to molest your children, which is not true than anybody else.    And finally, and then I'll start with what people really want to hear. As a Jew who was bar mitzvahd as somebody who was raised Jewish and became a Jew out of choice because I was raised in a secular family. My parents couldn't care less. I chose to go to an Orthodox temple because my parents were took their Judaism for granted.   It doesn't mean that you are Jewish. You were raised Catholic. You weren't bar mitzvahd. You didn't go to temple. And whenever you're in trouble, Bill Maher, you always say, well, I'm a Jew. I'm a Jew. You're not. We don't need you. We don't need you trashing Muslims on your show. And then when you get into trouble, identify as a Jew. That's not what Jews do. So stop identifying as a Jew. We've got enough problems controlling the banks and the media. We don't need you representing us. And the same thing goes for your flamboyantly gay guest. You were raised Catholic. You weren't raised Jewish. You have a maternal grandmother or grandfather who might have been Jewish. And when you're in trouble, you identify as being Jewish.    I can't stop this Milo Yaponopolis from either being a bottom or a top. But as a Jew, you're not a Jew. You weren't bar mitzvahd. You didn't go to Hebrew school. You have a maternal grandmother. You have a maternal grandmother who is Jewish, maybe. The same way Hitler may have had some Judaism in his blood. Don't identify as a Jew. You're not Jewish. You don't represent our values. The reason the mother, if the mother is Jewish, the kid is considered Jewish even though they weren't raised Jewish or bar mitzvahd is because of rape. That's why. It's because of rape.  So you raise the kid as a Jew. He's accepted into the tribe.  Bill Maher, you're not a Jew. You don't reflect Jewish values. And the Nazi you had on your show does not represent Jewish values. Don't fall back on being a Jew whenever you get into trouble. Hi. Welcome. Sorry. You know, it's always a fun podcast when it starts on a note of rape. Hi. I'm sorry. I'm taking out a pen so I could take some notes. Hello. Hi. Nagin Farsad. Hello. Has been on my show before. I have. I've been in this very room but without you. With Colleen. Yeah. See, you're lucky. That was great because she's great. Yes, you're in trouble. This is just going to be. This is just going to suck. This is going to suck. Nagin Farsad is the host of Fake the Nation. I was just on it. I had a fantastic time.  She is also the author of a book, How to Make White People Laugh. And a movie called The Muslims Are Coming. Thank you for coming on my show. Tell me about Muslims Are Coming. It's a movie, right? Yeah. Well, what we did is we took a bunch of Muslim comedians and took them on the road to places like Mississippi and Alabama and Arizona, whatever places that have total boners for Muslims. And we did these shows, right? And we called them The Muslims Are Coming. And then we also like in between shows, we would do street actions. Like we would stop people in the middle of their day and have them, you know, we would set up and ask a Muslim booth and be like, ask us any questions, whatever.  We also interviewed, speaking of Jews, a whole bunch of like amazing Jewish comedians like John Stuart, who you mentioned earlier. I'm in a less than positive light. And you know. I love John. He's just anti-union. No, I got you. But we had on people like John Stuart and David Cross and Louis Black and Janine Grofflow and, you know, some others talking about like the hilariousness of Islamophobia, which is a real hoot.  But but yeah, so I sort of like do that kind of that's what is one of the things I do as a comic is just trying to do this like kind of bridge building, which is why I join you in the frustration over Bill Maher. I mean, what was it? Can I ask you a question about your experience with him? What did he ever like do the ranting about Muslims when you worked for him? Is this this is just like a more like last few years development? Yeah. And there's like, I don't watch the show once I leave a show. I don't watch it. Or once I I don't even watch the show. It's like it's like it's like seeing an ex-boyfriend. You don't want to do that. Yeah, I get you. Or I don't. Anyway, so I think there's a screw loose. Antisemitism, which includes Islamophobia, the Semites. Right. It's the same thing. I'm not being glib. Yeah, technically it is. Yeah, technically it is. Although people don't see it that way or understand it that way. But yeah, especially the Semites. Yeah. There's an interesting theory about that. All right, let me just make a note. The New Yorker article that I read 22 years ago about. Jesus. I know. You remember New Yorker article you read 22 years ago. Yeah, because it was illustrative of the squabbling between Jews and Muslims, which is not, by the way, when people say, you know, we can't get involved in Israel. This is a fight that has gone on for millennium.  It's a fight that's been going on for maybe 70 years. Yeah. 50 years. The Muslims and the Jews got along very well and especially in Spain. So read your history. So anyway, no, Bill has a screw loose when it comes to Islamophobia. It's a sickness. Islamophobia is a mental illness. No, no, no, you're laughing. No, I like that. Yeah. No, it is. Yeah. It really is. It's a need to explain your situation the same way anti-Semitism or racism is a sickness because you need to, you have an identity issue with racism and it's an identity crisis that you're having and an ignorant way to explain your situation and the world's situation. So now he doesn't, he never ranted against any group of people. He's, for all intents, is a progressive, as I remember. I don't think he's ever been afraid because of who he is. Right. You know, the interesting thing about his rantings is that they're like fundamentally baseless because he'll make the exact same argument.   Right. Like if I said there's fundamentally something wrong with like Mexican culture, like he would be punching me in the face. Right. Like that would be out of control so he doesn't see the compartmentalizing that he's doing in order to keep these arguments, you know, together in his own head. It's very, it's the oddest thing. And he is such a huge platform, you know. So, I think, you know, in one sense, having a guy like Milo, yeah, or whatever the fuck, is, you know, in some ways, I'm like, oh, well, I understand, you know, where progressives are insulated from a lot of these ideas and it's good to hear what the other side is thinking. And a guy like Milo, you know, I was saying before, he's like 20% handsome. So, you know, he's got an accent, right? So, you sort of like don't mind hearing from him in a weird way. But, you know, I think a lot of those weird alt-right, but British people like have that going for them. But so in some sense, I'm like, okay, well, we should be hearing what they're talking about. Right. Because to know what the, what, what, what ideologies like we're actually dealing with, you know, I don't, you know, sometimes you, especially if you're living in, I don't know, Madison, Wisconsin, or New York City, or like these liberal enclaves where everything is great and you can order hemp milk with your coffee, you know, that when, when you're living in places like this, I think you're sometimes, you know, a little bit isolated from some of the ideologies that are taking hold in other parts of the country.  And that's what's so dangerous about it. And, you know, it's interesting, I interviewed Rachel Maddow for my, for the Muslims are coming. I don't remember if this made it into the film, but she talked about her struggle as a broadcaster in wanting to tell people about, for example, the American Family Association that, you know, they have a TV show, they have a radio show, they're out there every day advocating against Muslims and advocating against, that just makes sense.  And they do it and they're enlisted as a hate group by the Southern Property Law Center.  And she for, for time when they had lots of money and they were doing this a lot, you know, she would report on it, but then at a certain time she just had to kind of pull back and say, am I giving them a platform? Am I just reinforcing the underlying hateful message by giving them a platform? That's the problem. You know, now we're dealing with a situation where we know that this is not like these are not niche like opinions because like 39%, you know, Trump has a 39% approval rating about 39% of the public really loves what he's saying and doing. So they're not like fringe ideology. So it is something we need to like report on. But yeah, it's a it's like a big question how to deal with it. Yeah, I'll tell you how to deal with it. All right. Here's how you deal with it. You ignore them. You don't dignify them. You don't give them a mouthpiece. What you do is you focus on the 530 representatives in government. You focus on your state legislature. You focus on your your your police. You focus on your government because what we're going to see assuming things play out. Donald Trump is going to rev up the racists and he's going to get people stoked and fired up. And that public opinion of Islamophobia, anti-Semitism, that'll go up and down up and down. Washington DC and the state legislatures and your mayors don't dignify that if you focus on your lawmakers. We are not a nation of the vast majority of Americans can hate gays, Jews, women, blacks, Muslims. It doesn't matter as long as Congress and the Senate and the president and the judges don't. So for Bill Maher who's reaching millions of people on HBO to introduce a fringe crackpot and elevate him into the discussion, it's a waste of time. We don't need to hear what he has to say. And the Bill Maher show and a college campus is not the forum to present a lunatic. The problem with the Bill Maher show is that's your dessert. That's fun. To have a live show where it's the audience cheering and booing and you win by how the audience reacts. That's not education. That's not informing people. And what happened was Larry Wilmore was on and he told Milo Benapolis to go eff himself and the audience cheered because it was partisan and I'm thinking you just lost.  The Bill Maher show is not the forum to put a neo-Nazi white supremacist on because it's a gang bang. Four people screaming and yelling to try to get their point. You want to have Milo on? Do it without an audience so there's no cheering. Yeah. Interview him. Yeah. I think and you know the other thing I'd say you're right about that and just in defense of not having him on at all. I think one of the things that we're seeing right now is like this crazy increase in national anxiety. Just look actual physical pangs that people feel I went. I go to acupuncture not to brag and I went to the other day and I go to one of these like community acupuncture places or whatever.  I know this sounds crazy but it probably just Trump related anxiety but like I just need to calm down and she was like oh literally 80% of the patients here have that problem. And so it's like all over the place there's this anxiety that's created and the trickling out of this kind of rhetoric on shows like Bill Maher is not like helping. I think the other thing is that it's making money. It's making money. It's making money for Bill. Bill's very rich. We're watching a train wreck and everyone enjoys that. But it's not offering solutions and it's not offering any kind of like morale boosting. You never like walk out of it you know watching something like that and like I feel great about the Republic. Exactly. So I feel like that's another argument for not having these fuckers on. It's turning up the heat. Yeah. Because heat makes money. Bill gets rich you know he gave a million dollars to Barack Obama I think he owns the Mets. I don't watch the show and I don't know you know I love his writers but he's a very wealthy man. Yeah. And HBO is a very profitable company. Yeah. And you make money by turning up the heat under the shield of the First Amendment. Freedom of speech. Hey freedom of speech. Can't we have rational discourse? How about you inform? How many masters do you have? How many masters do you have? I have two masters. What are they in? I have a master's in public policy from the School of International and Public Affairs at Columbia and I have another one in African American Studies and I you know I was focusing on you know race relations. Where did you get that? Also at Columbia so I did both of them at the same time. I'm not going to ask you you know what kind of family you came from. Is that expensive to get? Let's just assume let me be just not talking about you but as a somebody who's uneducated compared to you but I want to feel patronized as a parent who put a daughter through college and made sure she got two masters from Columbia. Is that expensive? I mean yes it is. The answer is yes. It is. So that's why I got fellowships and stuff like that so it's not like I you know I had some finances worked out through that. If I'm sending my kid to Columbia to get two masters I don't want her to go see Milo Yappinapolis speak at Berkeley. My daughter went to Berkeley.  I don't want her seeing Jerry Seinfeld or Chris Rock who are complaining now about how politically correct.  Stay off my daughter's college campus. I don't want her seeing comedians. I don't want her seeing Bon Jovi. I want her studying and listening to professors. It's one of the biggest scams going on college campuses that I remember the story of George Carlin being paid something like $75,000 to play a college campus 30 years ago. Jesus I'm getting underpaid. And the kid handing him the check says this is more than my house's worth. I grew up in. You know what go see George Carlin. I love George Carlin. Go see him at the Circle Star Theater.  Sorry. Well so you know what's interesting is when I was at Columbia Mahmood Ahmadinejad the former president of Iran came to speak. Right. And there were protests and everyone got pissed. He's not a comedian. No. He was a world leader at the time. But it was interesting because this exact kind of conversation erupted around is this the university tacitly accepting his. He deserves to speak. He has some legitimate thoughts about the holocaust being. Israel. But no. My favorite of his is we do not have gay people in Iran. I don't know who told you that. I think he literally said that at Columbia. He was the mayor of Tehran I believe. And then he became the president of Iran. He deserves to speak at Columbia. Hitler should be allowed to speak at Columbia. Hitler should be allowed on well you know the Bill Marshow. I think the problem with the Bill Marshow is it's blood and circus. It's the colosseum. It's the audience screaming and that you don't... I've never been to a college lecture where the students are cheering and screaming. There was a guy named James Shenton. He was a professor I had who used to get the audience cheering.   Go ahead, I'm sorry. No, that was it. So they don't belong on our college campuses. Nobody belongs on our college campuses other than professors. Yeah, I mean I think there's room.  I can see how someone like George Carlin is a part of that discourse. No, I think George Carlin is the best comic whoever did it. It doesn't belong on a college campus. You're there to educate. You pick a college based on the curriculum, the classes and the professors. They're so busy building buildings that they can't pay the adjunct professors. Professors properly. What's the point of having PhD? What's the point of swimming in PhDs if you're not going to use what you got? Well, maybe I'm defensive about this because I perform at a lot of colleges. Well, there you go.  But you have two masters. And what I try and do, I mean I'm like a little bit, I just put myself in a sub category, but I am like, I'm like a little bit more of a message oriented comic. And I feel like that age group is really fertile in terms of like they're willing to listen to ideas that are maybe off the bean path. You know, some of the best shows I've ever had were like at a college in South Dakota where they literally have never met a Muslim before. Where they literally have never heard anyone say, hey, Muslims are okay. Or like human rights, they're good. You know what I mean? Like these kind of really simple ideas about equality are not necessarily terribly popular in some of the places that I've performed. And I feel really gratified when I go and when these students ask me questions.  You know, they're generally not seeing it on television. They're generally not seeing it in film, right? They're definitely not seeing it on Fox News. And so to have access to that, you know, perspective on their college campus, I think is important to them and like it means something to them. And so for that, I defend the practice of like bringing someone like me. Well, of course you belong on a college campus. You're credentialed. What I object to is giving students what they want as opposed to what they need. I have a lot of friends, comedians, who just because they're young, they perform all over college campuses, I don't feel like paying to send my kid to a college campus. It's a college to have uncredentialed people giving them pastry. You know, Snoop Dogg performed at my college once when I was there. So I don't condone that. I think Snoop is great. Or whatever. Yeah, but that's not why you go to college. You can go see Snoop. You can get on a train or a bus and go see Snoop. The college campus should be the sole province of PhDs. People who are credentialed and are teaching. These kids are young.  Yeah, it still doesn't stop them. Did it stop you or did it stop me? I mean, obviously. Well, we're going to live to 150 if people stop paying attention to Milo Yappinapolis and they stop booking Jerry Seinfeld and Snoop at college campuses and people roll up their sleeves and get their education. We're going to live to 150. Yeah. You said an 18 year old off to college in terms of geologic time. They're babies. They're babies. They're not allowed to drink. You need to mold their minds. Don't give them what they want and that's the whole problem with colleges now. So no, just the you get a PhD in this country, a doctorate and you can't make a living because the college campuses are swimming with alcohol and false prophets like Jerry Seinfeld, Chris Rock, Bon Jovi, George Carlin and Snoop Dogg. You're strangely fixated on Bon Jovi. I don't know. He's not on the college circuit in the way that you might think. Sorry.  Someone just paid a tuition bill. Yeah. Well, anyway, Berkeley is a great campus and they were right for not allowing their campus. Yeah. I just think it's good not to have someone on that's going to incite violence where there's some sort of danger of that. There's just no point in that. The ideas aren't valuable enough to merit that kind of danger. What's the idea that college students are adults is one of the great misconceptions in American history. Anyone who's like 23 agrees with you.  If you have a son your job is to keep your son alive until he's 23. They've done studies that sons, boys have no concept of risk in their brain until they're 23, 24. Jesus. Which is why college boys are still skateboarding without helmets.  I was like I remember someone trying to get me to do they weren't pressuring me to do drugs but I can't remember what it was. It was some sort of pill. I was just like, okay we need to weigh the positives and negatives and I mean it was like a 45-minute deliberation on whether or not I would try this. I ultimately didn't try it because I was like I'm scared of the 5% chance that I could have flashbacks or something into my future so we're not going to do it. I was extraordinarily risk averse.  Yeah. I was a Democrat. We're going to keep that in. Not that one. I was a Democrat. I am a Democrat. I actually interned for Hillary Clinton and I interned for Charlie Rangel and I was like a more of a legit Democrat than a lot of people just from those experiences. You interned for Charlie Rangel? Yeah. I was one of those people when they say call your congressional office and don't call the DC office because there were people like me answering the call and they would say I want Charlie to vote this way or that way on whatever and then someone like me or one of his staffers would make a note of that and then they would tally it and like it was you know, yeah, they'd listen to constituent phone calls so that's actually something I think people should really be doing. It's really working. Supposedly, I mean the problem is my side is just waking up to what the Tea Party got eight years ago. Are you optimistic about this left awakening that's going on? I am. I mean I don't know like if you've seen this in your friends but it's just like like I said, because I've done a lot of the political stuff I was a policy advisor for the city of New York so I went to my fair share of demonstrations and rallies and protests and whatever and that's not something that was alien to me. It was something that I sort of did but that I wouldn't it's not like I could ever convince a friend to go with me. But now it just feels like everyone is doing the rallies and the protests and they're just showing up and everyone knows like everyone's texting about it and it feels like it does feel like something I've never seen before you know, I never got that people were excited to show up in that way. It was always the kind of extreme like you know, patchouli scented set that would like show up to these things and you'd be like bless you guys, you know, because otherwise it would just be us by ourselves but now it feels like everyone's going and it's becoming a little bit more of a social thing you know and so that's great. It's funny because I don't know except for the purchase of three cornered hats, if the Tea Party had so much fun doing it and I think that's the other interesting thing is building social capital is something that we really actually need to focus on which I think is what's happening right now like people are building social allegiances based on going to protests and stuff like that and there's this like Harvard sociologist named Robert Putnam who wrote a book called Bowling Alone and in the book he talked about the disintegration of social capital and like you know this was like in 2001 he was talking about like oh there's no more 4-H club and whatever and stuff like that and it's true we don't have those kinds of institutions anymore like people are not fully invested in them so you're not going into a town and like there isn't like a town dance or whatever or like a town fair thing the problem is it's churches right yeah and so it's not, there aren't these like secular gatherings that we kind of used to have and so that means the social capital that once worked through these and the reason he called it Bowling Alone is because he was talking about the bowling leagues that we know no longer have the kind of mobility the political mobilizing that kind of happened in these bowling leagues like is no longer a thing and so that means like the civic engagement is fraying and it leads to like the growth of fringe ideologies and we've seen that right with like crazy murders and you know and the alright and all that shit so can I just unpack what you just said because it's really just thank you for coming on the show and I apologize I always apologize I've been reading a lot and I'm angry and so I come from I'm trying to deal with my anger but you're doing great I want to ask you about the Johnson amendment but I want to just and I hate to use the word unpack but what you're saying is as I understand it there was a time when we were small little communities who would gather together to help one another so there were even bowling we would bowl together we would meet together and to discuss local issues and then probably television ruined everybody just stayed home and watched television it was part of it that was part of the thing that ruined it and Reagan and just self determination and individualism yeah so when you're a politician you want to go to a town where there's a built in audience where can I go well the only built in audience left is a church so I want to ask you what is the Johnson amendment Donald Trump wants to get it overturned and would I be wrong for agreeing with Donald Trump for wanting to overturn the Johnson amendment right so the Johnson amendment is about allowing churches to have the right so churches have they don't pay taxes and part of that taxes exempt status means they can't make they can't have a political stance and so it's been around since the fifties early fifties when he was Senate majority leader and so he wants to overturn that so the churches can go around saying whatever and I it's interesting because there's already so many workarounds to the Johnson amendment it's not I don't think it's unclear to parishioners who a particular clergyman or whatever wants to support in the election they'd make it known in other ways you know one of the interesting things about the Mexican vote 29% of the Mexican vote went to Donald Trump and part of the reason for that is that in these Catholic churches in Mexico they're more religious than the average American and and so the pastors would say are they pastors, fathers, whatever I don't know my church stuff anyway they would say don't whatever you do when you go into the ballot box this week just make sure you're voting for a life and that was the big statement you know that a lot of them were making so they didn't say Trump they didn't say who you know what I mean but they made it clear that this is our position I'm wrestling with this because I remember when my kids were being bar mitzvah this rabbi Steve leader from the Wilshire Boulevard temple bad guy his and I do mean a bad guy Steve leader rabbi Steve leader Wilshire Boulevard temple bad guy that's by the way that's one of the great things about being Jewish is you can just say rabbi Steve leader bad guy and you know it's not a crime he could sue you for defamation or something well then I'll talk about how he evicted low income people I'll be more than happy for him to sue me and I have the notes on his evictions so rabbi Steve leader bad guy and by the way that's one of the lures of being Jewish is that you can tell a rabbi to go eff himself they're not conduits of God rabbi Steve leader bad guy so you know his his sermons were like something out of Dr. Phil and Oprah and we were going to war this was in 2002 and we were about to engage in a legal invasion of Iraq and the patriot act and I cornered him and I said hey rabbi Steve leader bad guy why don't you talk about something he says but I am talking about forgiveness and love and moving on this is BS you know my parents went to the only reason my parents went to temple was to hear guys speaking out in favor of the civil rights movement this is pablum well I can't I can't do that because my temple there's some republicans here it's a mixed bag of worshipers and I said I don't want to worship with them I don't want to worship with people who support the invasion of Iraq well we're an inclusive we're inclusive I said well I don't want them here so when I think of the Johnson amendment I'd like to know what my priest and rabbi believe politically because the only answer to this country is the temple of democracy that Washington is a temple where we should worship and I don't want to belong to a temple that has Trump supporters in there so I want full disclosure I want to know how my rabbi thinks I wonder how many people would end up leaving churches and temples because they found out that their rabbi or whatever is pro-trump or whatever it is what effect that would have on just basic attendance what is more important than who your rabbi voted for what is more important I guess if your rabbi killed a guy that's maybe more important because that's where the rubber meets the road or should meet the road in our culture and then we wouldn't pay attention to the the Milo Yaponapalapalas because that's all just sound and fury signifying nothing who'd you vote for and pay attention to your and one of the things that I think you do make a good point which is that at the foundation of everything if you can't just be a pro-trump supporter and be like but I am a good person and that's one thing that I feel like we've lost track of because by being pro-trump you're also pro bigotry you're pro like misogyny that's what you're saying however tacitly that is what you're saying and so I think it is really important to make that you know you can you have to be anti-trump if you're pro like human rights and equality and shit like that that we like as Americans you like kind of have to be anti-trump so I think yeah you're right like there is that's one really easy test of knowing if someone is like in favor of equality that's an easy test so what are the dangers then of repealing the Johnson amendment because there's an establishment clause in the first amendment we shall have no official religion well if in this country or what Protestant yeah so if Protestant churches donate the most money to our candidates then we're running the danger of a congress with a Protestant agenda is that what Lyndon Johnson was thinking yeah I mean I suppose so and I think also just I don't know there's like something about the tax exemption also muddies that up because we're essentially just giving money to these people to run these and you know we're helping them out financially it's a subsidy you know essentially so I you know but it's that's a good question I mean in one in one hand you would know what you're dealing with the garbage that you're dealing with and on the other hand okay so let me save my listeners some time I know that I've talked too much I know that and I can't control myself I'm like the dog who bites and just has to be euthanized I have to be euthanized you're I'm filled with piss and vinegar and I'm trying to impress you and I'm angry about what's going on in the world and you are you have anyway so you can send me the angry emails saying instead of apologizing for talking too much why don't you just shut up I get it message received Nagin Farsad where were you born I was born in New Haven, Connecticut but I grew up in Southern California I grew up in Palm Springs you by appearance in America by interpretation you have chosen to be Muslim in that like a Jew you could change your name and be Megan Stewart or Megan Stewart so you've decided I suppose I mean I have one of those just vaguely ethnic faith, ambiguously ethnic faces it's people when they're guessing what I am they guess a bunch of different non-white people so you're Muslim by choice I mean I'm Muslim by like I grew up I actually think it's very similar to how a lot of my Jewish friends in New York are Jewish which is that they grew up in it not something they really ever questioned they're even necessarily very spiritually connected to it's just one of those things where they're like well my lineage is that so okay so do you mind if I ask you are you in your 20s 30s 30s you're in your 30s so you came of age right after 9-11 when there was a fear of Muslims mm-hmm wasn't there a voice in your head that said change your name you've got to make a living in America mm-hmm why not change your name why why choose the path of most resistance that's so difficult I actually know it's funny because on a casting level like when I go out for auditions as an actor I always wonder if my name was just Italian you know and and I kind of look Italian or Greek or you know some people think Mexican but also Egyptian, Lebanese whatever but like if I just change my name to an Italian name like would it just be like oh yeah we could cast her as anything you know but because my name is so clearly like Middle Eastern I feel like yeah that part of my life has been made more difficult because for whatever reason in terms of like American media that cannot get their head around this person can talk you know this person can do any type of role she doesn't have to be the one like brown person in the show you know and so I feel like I don't see you I'm being very superficial here because I find it curious I don't see you you're not your light skin yeah and so that's curious to me too because the way you're looking at me is definitely not how casting directors or even bookers I'll tell you something like so I have a podcast fake the nation which you've been on we talk about politics I have these degrees I worked for the city as a policy advisor you know like I said I interned for Charlie Reagan all this shit whatever and so you think I'd be and I go on these channels like MSNBCC and then whatever and I talk about whatever but they only trot me out when it's a Muslim thing which is what I said to you what was the thing I said to you when we started I don't remember but I don't want to bring you on I don't want you to be the resident Muslim yeah exactly and everybody wants me to be the resident Muslim even though I'm like look I'm actually as you said credentialed to talk about campaign finance reform I worked for the campaign finance board in New York City I can really talk about that and it's so important it comes up all the time why would you trot me out I mean on one of those things and I actually you know and I was asked to go on a show right after the Charlie Hebdo attacks and I remember Charlie Hebdo the satirist the satirist and you know the killing in Paris which they deserved in a way they kind of deserved well I mean I don't think anyone deserves murder but it was they there's you know there's a way to like talk about those cartoons critically which is like something that you're sort of like not allowed to do anymore because anyway well point is I was excuse me for one second I apologize they didn't deserve to be attacked I apologize for saying that but they were punching down and the Muslims in France are a beleaguered group and political satire should not be punching down and challenging a beleaguered group they didn't nobody deserves to be shot I apologize go ahead thank you for clarifying but like you know they bring me on the show and this is and this is one of those calls where you're like I shouldn't take this call I should not go on the show this is a nightmare it's like everyone's too upset it's the same just the day of nothing good will come out of a Muslim going on national television and talking about this and so I went on and they asked me what Nagin can you explain why these Muslims did this and I was like I mean I don't know I grew up in Southern California like I can explain to you way more about like flip-flops than I can about why these particular Muslims do this thing you know and this is the kind of moment where you're like are you fucking kidding me and like can you like it's fine and I feel like there should be reasonable Muslims going on television and talking about Muslim shit totally like and I'll I'm happy to do that but I cannot feel the question like why do Muslims kill people you know that is out of bounds ridiculous and offensive and also again it really if you want to think of yourselves as independent media that like you know is not you know is not colored by like the perception of someone being Muslim or black or Mexican or whatever then don't you know use us for the three-dimensional beings that we are you know what I mean and and that's something that I feel like I deal with all time and it's interesting because you're like but Shonda Rhimes has so many like diverse shows and it's like yeah I mean it's getting better but it's still strangely like stuck you know and it's still strangely like like I had to audition very recently for like an Indian doctor and like I said I'm Iranian which you know in the world of Hollywood is like same thing you know and it's funny to me because I'm like why can't I just why can't you just say like you're going to play an Iranian doctor you know like why do you I don't understand it I don't I don't understand this and then I think oh maybe it's the one that's being too fixated on this and like you know maybe we're already at a you know Gaelle Garcia Bernal played an Iranian reporter you know in the movie Rosewater and I'm not saying Gaelle Garcia Bernal isn't Iranian but I'm saying he's definitely Mexican you know it's maybe maybe we got to the point where like who's the director of that John Stuart was the director of that I wonder if it was a union gig go ahead um but no and I love John Stuart but I but I just thought that decision was so curious and like I also thought you know that but maybe we're going in that direction and maybe John Stuart is like starting a thing maybe then you know maybe Margaret Cho is going to play Bala Dean in her biopic like maybe that's the direction we're going into you know what I mean and like and I'm the one that's being you know backwards insisting the idea being that you if you have somebody who's Iranian they should hire an Iranian I mean there would be nice since we've never gotten accuracy to have it at least for like a couple of years before then we start blind casting if you were I don't know let me do you think you could watch let's just bring back the Brady Bunch or the Cosby and he has a white kid and it's not addressed I like to think that I could watch the Brady Bunch and there's a they have an Asian kid and a black kid and it's not addressed I know that sounds like BS yeah well you know there's a show if they're good enough actors I mean like they're doing that on Hamilton right they're doing that on Hamilton but they're doing it but they're doing it hand fistedly there's a very specific point involved there so can you do it where it's not at all an issue you know it's interesting because like the show This Is Us is almost kind of doing that where you know it's a story of these triplets and one of them is black obviously he was adopted but I'm sorry spoiler for people who didn't watch episode one but the I think they explain it away that way and it's kind of like okay that's fine I don't even you know you made that explanation this is a of tight family we're gonna see family dynamics play out and there's a black guy how about this let me ask you this we're gonna bring Angel in let's just keep the show going because until she wants until Nagin wants to leave I want to keep so bring Angel in if you don't mind yeah how about this is it legal to do this you say because I've worked in Hollywood Hollywood they are immune to any laws that are out there hey Angela Cobb why don't you sit at the head of the table where she can't sit at the head of the table I like Angela sit at the head of the table easy access hi Angela Cobb hi Angela Nagin we're getting like 14 different pronunciation I apologize do you know each other oh my god Angela Cobb is a hysterical comic thank you really funny I've probably seen you you do look familiar and you should have her on your shows all of them excuse me for one second are you a stage time junkie are you looking for I'm in a stage where I'm trying to I was on a thing because I had a book come out or whatever so I was like a little less but now I'm like trying to get back and do a new hour and all that crap that people so do you go because Angela does I got a couple of shows yeah amazing I have one that's just like a straight stand-up show and then the other one is themed it's called my first time and people talk about losing their virginity oh nice yeah yeah yeah yeah but um so either one you know shit like I'd love to alright cool look at that thanks for making things happen hey a Gladwellian connector oh wow I wish I had his hair he does have impressive hair so Nagin Farsad Nagin I'm such an ass it's fine Nagin Nagin yeah alright we're talking about typecasting in Hollywood during Elizabethan times the parts of women were played by young boys and people were okay with it and I always maintained I think child I don't think it should be legal for a child to be an actor or an actress and I think the parts of children should be played by women like short women I think it should be illegal to put your kid into the movies to like the profit off of them I think about the children in modern family you need kids yeah you do because kids are in life if actors are playing people in life you need a kid that's so lassy you can't have a dog in lassy you need things to be real a couple of kid actors that worked out Fred Savage, Neil Patrick Harris they seem to have ended great lives you're wrong were you a child actor yes I was really did you ever watch Family Ties I was Michael Gross the father that's how old I am I was a child playing the dad I was 6 years old I do but I do remember learning even though I was an English major but a terrible English major but I do remember learning about Shakespeare the men play the women's parts in order let me propose this to Nagin why would anybody like me you're just doing a long A what's your last name again what's your last name Farsad why don't you just be like hi Farsad can you stop nagging me about your continue I almost never correct people well that's become a funny thing now I'm going to call you Ms. Farsad got you sounds really like formal we were talking about being able to watch say the Brady Bunch where there's 6 kids some of them are black some of them are whatever and being okay with it not even questioning are they adopted or are they black actors so Hollywood is immune to every law that has passed in Washington the Civil Rights Act I have been told we're only hiring white right not white they would never say white right it's a black show we're only hiring blacks or you're too old yeah do people like actually say that oh yeah I heard like a lot of not me I'm saying like you heard that I heard it's illegal it's totally exactly it's totally illegal like you can't say that but then what's weird is in the arts like how is it almost when you think about it though if you're casting someone who's supposed to be a certain age like I can't play Betty White why not why not what about make up but it depends on what well that's actually that's a good point because March of the Wind Soldier is a Laurel and Hardy movie the guy who plays Mr. Barnaby was actually like 22 so that's a good point actually yeah those are the references I'm making so that's actually a good point the point I'm trying to make is I think blackface is hysterical and I want to bring it back by any means necessary you know what's funny actually I was like this is why I'm not a fan of like completely banning anything because I think context is everything and I'm going to sound like a real terrible person but like let's say for instance take the movie with Gene Wilder and Richard Pryor Gene Wilder can pull it off because it's funny and it's funny because it's so badly done like that's partly why it's funny that's part of the joke though and it's not really even straight up blackface it's more like because blackface when I think blackface I think straight up minstrelsy like the blackface the white around the eye like I think the full shebang when I think blackface you know what I mean I'm not necessarily putting like a pan on their face right but I mean I can so you have blackface spectrum that you want to well I think you do but also I think it's about the context for instance in all in the family no but what about in all in the family like in the episode when Archie does it first of all Carol and I don't even want to do it but they do it and you know it's the whole show is about commentary on that I think it's different because it's like pulling apart the idea of doing it so I think it's all in how yeah I don't think it should be done like for fun you know what I'm saying like that so I don't don't misunderstand me on that I don't think like hey let's have a minstrel show in this thing for no reason Angela go yeah sure and I'm Italian so like I'm already not white I'm just kidding but you know what I mean so I feel if it's like it's like blazing saddles like there's certain things in that movie that are good for that movie you have like the film taste of a like 70 year old man I do yes I do that's right I totally do I actually have a 70 year old man I don't even understand actually I'm a 70 year old man but no but I agree like I think that of course like because I remember actually I'm one of those people who if I can't sleep I'll like randomly start researching shit you know what I mean and like I remember like I was reading about black and it is terrible obviously it's insane to me like that that was ever even a thing you know but then I think that if you're going to do something that like lampoons that are makes fun of it that's a different thing than something that is saying it's okay you know yeah that's how I have a question yeah and how are you doing on time Ms. Farsad I have about another 10 minutes okay so so then let me since we only have 10 more minutes with Ms. Farsad let me waste time by telling everybody that minstrel shows were the longest running form of entertainment in history crazy and that black face very offensive can still be found in Mickey Mouse that Mickey Mouse and black face and and does the moves of a of a black face character from a minstrel show you can tell even by like his I mean obviously the face but even like the gloves like it's he looks like that's true it's weird so you may not know this about Ms. Farsad but she has two masters in public policy and African-American studies yes oh cool so she's really slumming it here she is no you know what I mean those are both degrees that you need to have to become a comedian and she also she also worked for Charlie Wrangel and I believe Hillary Clinton you were an intern not for Bill because that would have been bad yeah Hillary Hillary for Hillary that's awesome I want to ask you a very serious question okay and I do mean this okay Hollywood does not follow laws they don't follow OSHA laws they don't follow labor laws they do not follow any laws if it was declared that there were a brown V Board of Education for Hollywood and the Supreme Court ruled you have to integrate your casts you have to integrate Broadway that you cannot have an all-white version of Death of a Salesman it cannot be a white family and you literally are forced to integrate the casts of shows there has to be affirmative action how many generations would it take how many years would it take until it was normalized that you could turn on a television show and see a multi-racial family and not go how is this possible well the brown V Board of Education of Tobica is a really good example because we actually didn't then integrate schools I mean our record on integration is really terrible so you know it's like one of those almost unenforceable Kennedy sent Nicolette Scottson back down there I mean we did symbolically integrate schools it's not like they're whites only or whatever we did do that but actually operationally they're not integrated so that's like one of the problems with our school system is that they're not integrated do you think it would help if we had court ordered integration of modern family I'm being serious court ordered integration of family guy court integration of the Simpsons you know people were really pissed when girls came out and they were like it's all white girls I don't care you know and I think I think this which is that like I don't care that girls is an all white show I think it's fine it's the experience of those girls in fact I have a lot of white friends who only have white friends I mean it's not unusual you know and so in that particular I like the color I'm a winter what can I tell you you choose vanilla I like twist I've always liked twist ice cream just so you know self served twist my favorite my fiance is black so you know anyways we're like a pistachio so you're getting a PhD in african-american science indeed every night hey woo but I think so I think it's fine that that show is like a white cast or whatever and they are showcasing an actual thing that happens in Brooklyn with a particular type of hipster and all of that feels really and I enjoy the show and I love Lena Dunham and I think all of those people are great however what I don't think is great is that then for HBO not to then shower that opportunity with a like situation for other ethnic groups and they're starting to tiptoe into the area with shows like insecure or whatever where they're like oh I guess we should also have other people that aren't white with shows like this you know that can become cultural touchstones and I think that we're seeing that more and more so that to me is the problem not that modern family needs to be integrated modern family by the way for all the shows that you could have mentioned is actually doing a phenomenal job because they have Latinos and they have gay parents and child who is so it's like of all the shows that they're doing great I'm jealous of their success that's personal animosity but I think the real court order here is for networks to give opportunities to people that they don't normally give opportunities to but Hollywood is the only industry where you have to negotiate with them judiciously not through legislation if there were any other industry doing this there would be laws passed well you know what it is too because it's the most visually think about it like a regular we don't see every day that going on in like a regular office but we see movies we see shows we see we see this cast so it normalizes racism and sexism and it has the power to like will and grace or whatever it has the power of bringing gay people into your living room and then you being like you know what I'm totally fine with them if they want to marry like that's cool and that was a huge part that show and Ellen and whatever were a huge part in getting marriage equality there's a lot of power in it which is why it's an important question definitely and that's why I made all the 70 year old man references because no to me I find it hysterical that there were shows in the 70's that now we couldn't think of doing to me that's like yeah we did have all black cast or we did have a show that's centered around a black family we did have a show that's centered around a woman who's a family we had these things for a little while and then we couldn't have them anymore for some reason or people were like oh yeah it was almost like Mary Tyler Moore and then nothing or something like that and she's a good example so it's just interesting to me that you have in the 70's all these Norman Lear sitcoms and then now we're talking about it as if we've never done it before or we can't do it it's like we've done it so let's do it again although it was a situation even recently I remember hearing about friends working on a particular Mexican-Americans comedy show and all of their writers were white and I was like what so that kind of thing and I don't know who the writing staff was for the Jeffersons but I wonder if they were Norman Lear but also I'm sure there had to be obviously a staff this is a fact TV perpetuates ignorance TV is the problem if you have a radio show, a podcast a newspaper, a book it doesn't matter who was talking or who was writing TV perpetuates racism and superficiality because it's what you see what you see comes first visual mediums in general people talk about that all the time even with music that they talk about once music videos became such a big thing they're like you know my parents talk about it all the time remember back in the day when an artist could look like this and we still like them and now look you can't even look normal it's like oh no you can't and it's funny too when you watch like British television shows and people look normal you're like that's so weird you know and you're also like oh I'm not stifling vomit like it's fine to look at someone who looks normal yeah it's very but you're that's a good point except for the Rachel Maddow show I'm serious television perpetuates ignorance it really does there's nothing of value I think it has the power to do both that's sort of like saying like the media is to blame for Donald Trump or whatever I mean there's you know there's writers there's outlets there's this that are doing like great nuanced you know work and I think that's and reporting in that I think that's the same for entertainment like we're seeing some stuff out there that I think is you know that's brilliant like American crime American crime is a really captivating show it's really interesting and it's addressing racial issues through narrative entertainment no it's I don't know ABC or something but it's great it's an anthology series and it's the kind of show that's like through entertainment starting a conversation about race the showrunner is a black man the director of the writer behind the Seven Years of Slave I think I can't remember his name anyway so like the there's things out there that you're like that's brilliant and that's hopefully moving the needle I mean whether or not something's moving the needle will never know that's not the way culture works you know you can't hook a needle up to American public consciousness you know and be like did this make you less racist like unfortunately we can't do that but we need to you know but the more we fill into the the tube like the more hopefully we do move let me dumb-splain something to you dumb-splain? that's how I always explain something to you brilliant women okay if you're dyslexic or blind and you can't learn Braille or whatever I understand the importance of radio and a podcast I don't understand the importance of television if you're dyslexic you know and you can't read but in terms of cost effectiveness your what no I'm trying to process what you're saying I'm thinking in terms of the best use of your time to get information reading if you spend an hour to read the New York Times or the Washington Post versus spending an hour even watching Rachel Maddow yeah yeah you are a better person the people who are most informed are people who listen to NPR in terms of in terms of actual being informed that was according to some study but it also depends on what you're reading too reading the nation reading the Economist reading the newspaper fun stuff like the nation going back to the beginning to turn on real time with Bill Maher because I have loved ones who turn to Bill Maher for the news they watch his monologue and then they hear the discussion they think they're watching a better version of face the nation and you're not, it's screaming and yelling and he's turning up the heat to make millions read, spend that time to read unless you're dyslexic which they can still read you can do both, I mean that's the thing you don't need to choose in general we should read more I joked up being a terrible English major I don't read it as much as I should I feel like I read I almost feel like I read too many periodicals in just news and I don't read enough gorgeous literature that will ask the eternal questions and make me think about them I don't do that enough to me it's like TV has the power to do both that's the issue just like music has the power to do both not make people more ignorant but it has the power to just be bullshit which sometimes you just need some bullshit too though can I admit, yeah and then I think it also has the power to help shape and inform like a show even like the Twilight Zone again I'm being like 7 year old man asking the eternal questions but he took that show and made it sci-fi but address issues of race gender etc so I think you can do both I think you can entertain but also try to inform people well I have to leave can I can I just like make a statement in closing yes you get the last word and just for whatever reason all of this talk made me remember that there's a really fun if you just want to laugh at a show you should watch The Grinder it's on Netflix now no it's just a funny show I have nothing to do with it it's called Grinder or The Grinder I don't remember and it's with Rob Lowe and Fred Savage it's totally fucking hilarious and it was underappreciated when it was on TV now it's on Netflix and I'm telling everybody to watch it so that like they'll do another season one day well let me do this for a bit and then I should all I think America should also read my last book how to make white people laugh how to make white people laugh you'll come back I will know this was super fun no dude you're great I was trying to impress you and by the way so it's Grinder so go to www.grindr.com do it in front of your parents just go to grindr.com Grinder.com and do it in front of people thank you for having me fake the nation fake the nation the podcast and the last episode was with David and future episodes will be with David and hopefully Angela and so and then how to make white people laugh and the Muslims are coming I had so much fun thank you you'll move over here Angela so I can face you okay and while Angela Cobb is switching seats yes I know I talk too much I did I know no I do I literally was in here for five minutes and I felt like I talked to you it's okay it's okay when Angela talks to you don't say that thank you for coming by Angela Cobb is here you were fantastic a couple weeks ago on the show what happens to me is we start taping and I've been reading I study up before the shows and and there's a temptation to use a human being as a sounding board it's unfair it's not a conversation so what I've been doing to fight that tendency is to do an opening monologue where I just talk and that kind of shuts me up unless I not today how bad was it how bad I was I was angry was I bad it's nice to I haven't seen Alex oh yeah he's been away right yeah so this is a great show and coming up later we're going to talk to Kirk Hill Martin and Micah Fox so Angela Cobb joins us you are where'd you grow up I'm from Long Island originally Limbrook and then we moved upstate when I was nine so I basically I technically spent most of my growing up upstate but I feel like I come off as much more you know like a New Yorker it's bizarre because I grew up in New Jersey New York there was a time when you could judge a person by whether or not they watched channel 5 or channel 11 see I remember see I was on Long Island long enough to remember that kind of stuff because I left when I was nine so and 11 had a certain like 11 carried the monsters yeah and the honeymooners and 5 was a little just a tad more cooler yes but you're not my age no but I'm remembering even like I'm trying to remember now when I was a kid and I watched both those channels I feel like 11 still would have the honeymooners and stuff like that and there's this little cultural divide that I made that it's monsters versus the Adams family it's lost in space versus Star Trek it's even now it's family guy versus the Simpsons so I maintain this is my I think we're on the same page I liked Lost in Space more than I like Star Trek I like the monsters more than I like the Adams family the monsters I can get on board with the other ones I don't really know enough about because I haven't watched them they're family guy more than I like the Simpsons so I'm considered low brow and not hip and I think that's a channel 11 WPIX this is yet to be from New York to get this and I think you're a WPIX channel 11 type of person I think we're on the same page you know what's funny like I think that I like this whole low brow high brow or whatever it's funny when you said like the monsters because I consider if people don't like the monsters I wouldn't consider them intelligent like I'd be like you don't like the monsters or you don't even you know I don't know to me there's certain classics you should at least know about but people if you told people you liked the monsters Adams family fans would dismiss you it's funny because that's like the Three Stooges and the Mox Brothers too I'm the Three Stooges but a lot of people would be like oh the Mox Brothers is smarter I don't like the whole Dumber Smarter that's like saying I don't know to me the Stooges were had their intelligence too it's just different you know so I'm not I like there's plenty of stuff I like that's smart smarter considered smarter in air quotes or stuff I like that's considered you know more low brow and I just like what I like I don't really the Three Stooges didn't sit around the Algonquin table that's true not to dismiss the Mox Brothers but I'll say boy I'm gonna get I don't care no this is great I'm excited I like the Three Stooges when a Mox Brothers film comes on it's an assignment from my dad oh S.J. Perlman and George Kaufman you sit down and watch when the Stooges come on I'm going all right I'm in I'm all in yeah you know what's funny too there are people that I like to watch versus people I like to quote like Groucho Marx has some brilliant quotes and philosophies on life like I like I'd rather probably read a book written by Groucho Marx and watch the Mox Brothers versus the Three Stooges I'll watch forever you know right and laugh hysterically Groucho was a great writer yeah I've read all his books and his letters are all brilliant but the Stooges pound for pound yeah I'm the same way we're we're amazing they were I agree did you grow up with mostly brothers no actually I it's funny how I became a tomboy the kid I have one sister who's five years younger than me and then that was it and me and my mom my dad and me and my sister yeah okay and when did you start doing comedy um I started doing comedy turn off your phone I know look at this I got um I started what's on your phone no nothing important actually just a message it looks like a message about a show um what's the I'm not going to read the message even though it's just no no it's somebody asking me I'm about fun size and venti the show I hope you've done fun size and venti okay that's all it's so much venti to do your show it's so much venti so much venti no anyway sorry to get off the top of here um I didn't grow up with um I didn't grow up with brothers I have a younger sister I I think they're but because my mom didn't have sisters I think that's part of what it is my mom is the only chop the only girl of she's the youngest and the only girl and has three older brothers so she grew up all with brothers and I think so because like my mom didn't have a sister and my dad just had a brother I grew up around a lot of guys even though I didn't have brothers if that makes sense so there were uncles not aunts you know what I mean and it was so that could be part of it you don't have a chip on your shoulder most comics have rage and anger it's funny that you say that maybe I just hide it well I don't I don't sense we all have our shit I think um I but I definitely feel like you know had you met me a couple years ago maybe you would have said something different like I think I you know um past few years I feel like I've kind of come into my own a little more than than maybe when I first started comedy I think when I first started comedy people would have been like she's a little defensive or she's a little insecure that kind of thing how many years seven seven years and do you measure your comedy by the number of years you've been doing because I have noticed time has shifted with younger comics in terms of measuring their success what do you like can you explain what you mean Will Durst taught me the law of comedy and then Malcolm Gladwell years later said it's true Will said it takes four years for a comic to think he's good six years for the audience to know he's good and ten years for it to be undeniable wow yeah I like that that's what Will Durst said to me you know because I was so impatient and I calmed down and then Gladwell wrote that book about eight years ago sure where he says it's basically ten years it takes ten years for somebody to become more than proficient but excellent at anything do you with the rise of social media and fame becoming more important than substance where you really can as a comic become famous before you become good oh yeah right you definitely can for sure I think that's a hundred percent true so how do you what are the yardsticks in terms of time see it's funny I I feel like I'm I've always had confidence in my ability but now I'm at a point where you know I feel like I'm a good comic you know what I mean you're hysterical thank you I do agree with the ten year thing though that like to really be like excellent or undeniable what if that makes sense I think um because even a band like the Beatles were together for under ten years but they had been playing for years before then so it yeah um but uh see for me like excuse me I've started to have Alex isn't it like ten thousand hours what it would yeah yeah I heard that right in my case in my case a hundred thousand hours you have a microphone back there huh nice oh we can hear you oh okay oh it's funny like I joke with people though sometimes that I'm like you know I considering the fact that I really don't have that I don't really have any legit credits to speak of but yet people respect me enough you know what I mean like so I I'm at the point where I feel like people see what I do and they see I'm a good comic and the rest I'm kind of like will come I feel not that the rest will come like I don't have to do anything but did you figure that out or did somebody tell you that I I don't you know it's funny I was I was lucky when I first started to also like surround myself with people who've been doing it a while like like I took a class at Broadway with Frank like Nolan he's still a really good friend of mine and he's brilliant I think and his sort of talking about being in the industry for a long time and that kind of stuff I found helpful when I was new and other people to you know that I just kind of happen to fall in with who could kind of be like look like this isn't going to matter in a day or like you know don't worry about it or you know but then some of it I think because I came from like I always did performing and writing type stuff like I was in band and chorus and that kind of stuff in school so I I knew that like you could have like a bed performance and that's still that doesn't mean you sucked you know I mean so I guess I had a little bit of a perspective on it to just like naturally what if older comics or older people taught you that turned out to be wrong I'll give you an example okay of what I was yeah yeah let's let's hear it Will Durst gave me great advice about any even with the podcast we're coming in three years we'll have done it ten years and I think that's when this thing will you know be what it's supposed to be the thing that I was taught starting out was be so good it's undeniable and everything else will flow that don't focus on marketing don't focus on glad ending I saw an interview with Steve Martin a couple years ago where he said you know I never like going to parties so what can I do to avoid getting party going to parties but still get work sure just be so great that it's undeniable I think that's partly bad advice yeah I mean I think that it's funny like I know a lot of comics who I I think they're great and yet they'll be like oh you know I hate like having to like schmooze with people or I hate whereas for me like I don't I guess I come off as very outgoing for me once I've done comedy and I'm in a comedy environment I feel like I'm at my best like I'm more outgoing I'm more social I'm more this this than the other thing whereas if you asked me to maybe go schmooze at a party for like a day job I had or something like that I probably wouldn't be as competent because I wouldn't really have all this much investment I was selling or what I was doing whereas for me it just kind of comes naturally that like if people came to my show I'm gonna like shake their hands after and thank them for coming and asking how they like you know it just kind of you do do that I do okay so the advice that I was given starting out in San Francisco before your parents were born I just know that's not true was don't let the audience see you before you go on stage and afterwards you should go to your dressing room and hide be mysterious that's wrong right I don't see but I think also different things work for different people too like if if you're like aura is that like you're mysterious you know what I mean I think it's almost like not to sound weird but it's almost like being off brand can be your brand almost you know what I mean it's like you're you don't care about that so you're you know I also think if you're good like I think if you suck then whatever you do is gonna be wrong versus if you're good you can you know it should always be more important you're good I think yeah all my heroes were mysterious like Woody Allen was mysterious he's I like to stand up what's he you know he he never went on television to promote his movies right so you he became special yeah and so I think my generation of comics thought well if you hide and only show a little to the audience then you'll be mysterious and people want more of you supply and demand sure but that doesn't that doesn't apply anymore I think you see I think there's like a happy medium because when I even think of the types of people that I admire in the arts like it's kind of people who have more of my personality type but then also some people who really don't like I hear a lot of things from like like like somebody like Mel Brooks he's brilliant I think but also he's outgoing and gregarious naturally so you can tell he's totally comfortable being like come see my movie you know where the Marty Feldman or even a Gene Wilder they were more like oh I hate doing this promotion stuff you know and it's like I'm kind of like really why though what you did was brilliant so go promote it you know um but so and even like you look at the Beatles like Lenny McCartney like McCartney had more like diplomatic kind of PR kind of quality whereas Lenny would tell people to go fuck not that he couldn't be charming either but was willing to tell people to go fuck themselves or didn't necessarily get invested in the other sort of fluff of it you know but at the same time then you see him when he's a solo artist and he's totally promoting the shit out of himself so you know you have to I think your personality is important but then also it's about kind of you have to be have a good product in general like I don't care how much you promote something if it sucks it sucks you know what I mean like how so after a show you'll talk to audience members yeah I try I particularly know when to do the show how do you know when to end the conversation how do I see I even I don't know I don't know so it's after a show and and people walk up to you and they they talk to you yeah I guess it depends how the conversations going you know I mean if it's like sometimes it's people on their way out so usually those conversations will naturally either the people are on their way out and we're chitchat maybe and then they leave or it'll be like oh let's get a drink or like that kind of thing sometimes will you go get a drink with I'm yeah I've said yeah I thought yeah I had a show one time it was me it was Robin Shaw her show at Carolines and then with these guys from Canada who were really fun and then we went out for drinks after yeah because it was like the mark Norma the mark Norma I'll be right back oh yeah I was at the cellar with Alex one night that's funny and Mark Norman who's great yeah he's great I like work a lot just really did something very smart he he was obviously working in the room at the cellar he acknowledged me but he didn't want to sit next to me because why who would want to sit and he went I'll be right back and then yeah and he left and then all night I'll be right back over there and I thought oh that's brilliant yeah that's a great we'll see that I think maybe that's where I get I feel like I have like the qualities of almost like both sides of my family in that I have a natural thing where I do want to talk to people and I do like people but I also don't like bullshit so I can I'll find ways to avoid or sort of dodge a situation to if yeah so I think it's about that happy medium where you you want to promote yourself and sort of you know be willing to talk to people on network but also not be fake like I don't feel I'm fake like I know that that sounds like something a fake person would say but I feel like I'm pretty genuine and you know it kind of comes naturally to me if it's something I enjoy doing like this is what I want to be more successful at you know than I am and like this is what I want to do I think the audience really responds to you because you get a sense that you would go have a drink with them literally and in politics that's literally why George W. Bush got elected is you got a sense that he would go even though he was an alcoholic he would go have a drink with you whereas Al Gore and I'm kind of like Al Gore in that I put off a vibe you know this guy wouldn't have a drink with me and I'm glad because he'd be a bore that's funny he's a feat and I don't like and it's funny see but I'm drawn I find myself drawn to people in a way who like to me you'd be the kind of person that I'd be like I'll come have a drink and I'd want to get you to come have a drink with me and then you'd be disappointed I definitely wouldn't be disappointed I'm saying I think because I see that side of my own personality too but I think outwardly that doesn't come off as much with me but I definitely get the idea of like I just want to you know screw these people I just want to go back to my you know so then I almost want to get you to come have a drink so then we can talk about how shitty some of the annoying people in the audience were you know like that kind of thing I think what holds me back as a human being is that I like to perform I love to kill but I'm doing it for me not the audience right which I think but see for stand up you're supposed to do it for you I think and then when I'm done I'm done right well I get that I objectify the audience I get that okay I just see this massive people or in my case three drunks I see a crowd I go okay how do I mechanically make these people laugh as hard as they possibly can and I do want to talk to them after a little but obviously if you well first of all if you do shitty nobody usually wants to talk to anyway so then it just all kind of all works out that way you know because you probably aren't it really in the mood to talk to them but like I like talking to people like on this show I want to do more listener questions and I want to talk to my listeners I like emailing with them back and forth but there has to be a reason there has to be an efficiency and a point to the conversation after a show everybody's drunk or you know I see what you're saying this is like a time suck in a way maybe that's part of it too I'm bad in that I really don't mind wasting time well you're young but there are plenty of young people who think like you who are very efficient and are very like what's the point of this whereas I'm kind of like what's the point I feel like hanging out obviously it's different if you have something else like you have to be at or then you know that makes sense well yeah I'm an alcoholic so I wasted 12 years of my life so once I sobered up I said I'm never going to waste a single minute gotcha well that's good too and now what's happened is I've completely cut myself off from the world and I'm living this life this aesthetic is it aesthetic aesthetic life Hasidic life where every second every minute I have to justify 12 years you said you've been sober no no I drank for 12 years how long you've been sober 58 so I quit when I was 30 oh okay oh that's awesome see I will have to I have a joke that I do sometimes my mom remembers everybody's birthday like if she met you and you told her your birthday she would remember your birthday forever whereas me I remember happy anniversary no that's I get it okay I get it I had an interesting experience I did a roast battle I'm not going to mention the club because I love the club but I just want to and there was just a lot of people smoking pot and one side of me thought man I wish I could just be as happy and stoned as these people but I said it was a very close there were about 10 comics in this tight knit room and there was something very social I kind of closed my eyes and thought everybody in this room was stoned and relaxed is there a way for me to meditate to get to that level and I had to work at it but I did eventually get to a point where I was deep breathing and was on there I wasn't going to be as happy as they were but I was connected to that which was kind of nice do you smoke pot or you like to talk about that it's funny I do it socially if someone has some I'll have some but it doesn't really do much for me so I'm not the kind of person who's going to go buy it and the one or two times I've done edibles that was actually better for me than smoking it really most people have bad but I don't really do it regularly because it doesn't really do honestly I mean usually just drinking is enough for me I'm not even trying not to drink that much either but I don't really smoke pot that much you don't smoke I do notice that more and more people around me are smoking pot probably because they need pot to be around me but I do see it a lot of comics enjoy it and more and more whereas wasn't it like I want to say comics in like the 80s and 90s wasn't cocaine the big thing for comics then supposedly okay yeah no I'm just curious I'm amazed that was the other thing that I never understood in San Francisco where do you have the money to do cocaine it's funny like my well I don't know if it was just less expensive back in the day I don't know like I my parents would joke would talk about and I never considered that I mean my dad's an alcoholic but I never considered my parents particularly like crazy rebels or anything like that they just now is that a violation of a trust when you say that no I mean he's not in recovery or anything oh he's still drinking yeah I mean or he you know varying degrees of sobriety but no it's not a it's not a violation of anything I do jokes about have you decided he's an alcoholic have I just it's coming to those things it's like from when I was a kid okay when I was 14 he actually went to rehab and was sober for like 15 years but I think he got dragged there like kicking and screaming type deal which I don't think ever seems to work for anybody who's trying to get sober it seems like it has to be like a decision either they hit their bottom or whatever um you know like started drinking again or whatever and as when I did comedy from hanging out with more comics who are in recovery and learning more about like I've been to like adult child of alcoholics meetings or like co-dependence anonymous meetings and stuff like that so from learning more about him like yeah he's you know definitely you know this is and so you can control yeah that's true you can you can try to control an audience most of the time it doesn't work but occasionally there's the hope of justice right which is what I found attractive about comedy was I couldn't control the way I was raised I couldn't control the way women felt about me or the way I felt about myself but I could create this alternative where on stage I was somebody else and I could control how you perceive me yeah and I would take notes this joke works keep it in this joke doesn't work take it out so what eventually when you build an act you have you know 250 jokes that the audience likes the audience likes you because you have a list of 250 jokes that will make them like you and in relationships I have asked for lists where I've said give me a list of how you want me to behave and I'll be what you want me to be just give me a list of tasks and I'll be that person it's interesting see well there's a couple of things here one of the I think one of the smartest things when we talked about like things comics I've said you have been doing it longer like Frank Vignola said I really think this is true that like the idea is not to go to the audience it's like to make the audience come to you and like get in your head and that's when you're really doing it right and I think that that's true because I think there is a way to get the audience in your head and also they're going to find you funny too you know like everybody can kind of be happy they want authentic there's two yeah authenticity for sure authenticity so there are two things going on here and it's two different types of performer there's the the sweat act like me we'll we'll do jokes who does jokes and it's mechanical and scientific and then there's the authentic comic and people my age tend to go what are they laughing at like you watch Richard Pryor no no and they go where are the jokes oh he's being authentic oh I see what you're saying and so Richard Pryor who the antithesis of Richard Pryor is Carlin who is just old school joke guy, dangerous and then authentic because of his mind whereas Pryor is authentic because of his heart right I get what you're saying but I also think it's like yeah but also like you could be as authentic as you want but like you also don't need to know how to write a joke in my opinion and I think what's saving comedy is that your generation values authenticity more than jokes and that is what's keeping Stan up alive because it's more than a joke it's unique well that's true too I do think that no matter how well written a joke is like if they can't believe it from you then it's not gonna work you know that's not true you don't think so no one of the reasons I'm able to work with Martin shorter Steve Martin is because everything they say is a lie and my act is a lie but I'm saying the audience believes it no they don't they don't believe it and that's what the laugh is the joke the reason the reason a I get a laugh or the reason Steve Martin gets a laugh or the reason Martin Short gets a laugh and by the way the whole subtext of this is my putting myself in the company of those two is that you know it's not true oh I see alright but then there's still something going on that they almost get it I guess because they believe it's almost like either suspension or disbelief I feel like there's still something going on where they're on board well they love the performer right yeah and they're willing to I forget everybody else I mean my hero was Rodney Dangerfield because he could say anything on stage as long as the joke was good right I see so that's like the combination though I think of your personality and your authenticity versus like even if you're telling a joke that's not who you are if you're being who you are genuinely as you're telling the joke you could get away with it like I have a joke that never works I don't know why I'm bringing this up but I do a joke that I think is funny I was date-raped in prison now you can't get a laugh from the word date-raped but technically it's a funny joke in front of the right audience it should work in that they know I was never date-raped in prison they know I didn't go to prison all right so you can create this I don't know why I brought that up because it's a joke that has never worked on stage except for a very select group it's one of those things where I'll do it in front of 300 people and there'll be 5 people who laugh hysterically and you say well 5 out of 300 if consistently 5 out of 300 people laugh at that that does mean it's funny right? yeah that's the thing it is funny it's just maybe not necessarily majority funny it's not palatable but it's funny that's a good point too because there are plenty of things that are yeah funny funny doesn't necessarily mean it has to be happy good just it's funny one of the reasons I don't work the road anymore is I have actually stopped my show to explain why the joke was funny why my being date-raped in prison is actually funny and apparently that's not good for a comic to do that on a Friday night I guess not I guess not you have to explain you have to say to the audience let me explain to you why 295 out of 300 people here are completely wrong there are 5 people who understand this right and you're all against me yeah do you get angry at an audience I feel I know I feel like when I'm angry I'm not funny actually that's one thing that I actually have even tried there are certain types of even jokes or things that I've even tried to talk about that I feel like if people are aware that I'm really pissed it's not funny I don't know why like some people are really funny when they're pissed I don't feel like I'm funny on stage when I'm pissed I may be in life I'm funny when I'm pissed but on stage I feel like I have to have some sense they have to really be like no Angela is in control of herself and of the situation when I'm on stage I feel like for me to be funny whereas if I'm kind of really just pissed it doesn't seem to work for me I don't know people or maybe people find it jarring because of the fact that I come off as very like either like you said like I do come off maybe as gregarious or out going so if I seem pissed it's like oh shit like what's happened you know when was the last time you performed where you thought to yourself I should no longer be doing this um this is gonna sound really really arrogant but I actually haven't had that happen like I've had shitty performances but I've never thought I should never do this I've always been like I'll do it like I've always been what I've liked and what I wanted to do so even if it's gone bad I'll feel down about it or I'll feel like okay like I really gotta like work on some shit I gotta buck up I gotta do more mics or I gotta you know whatever but I've never actually had that moment where and I know that I've heard plenty of people say you know every comic should have that moment or whatever but no I've never had that moment where I'm completely considered not doing it never no I haven't I really I truly haven't so then then then you're then you are gonna be an incredibly successful comic you've never ever I really have like I've we've all had doubts we've all had insecurities or felt bad about ourselves because the show was bad or we felt like oh shit like I soccer like but I've never actually had it enough where I've been like I want to walk away from this and never do it again I really have never had that happen well most comics do yeah no it it's more almost like I have the flaws with like almost like if it goes bad it's almost like I think alright like I'll I'll go show them next or like I'll I get almost like a I'll go prove them wrong kind of a thing to you know but no I've never actually considered not doing it yet I mean who knows it could happen but I haven't considered it I think that is the secret maybe it's a comedy people like me walk away from it I'll go take a writing job sure comedy I did I did comedy straight for 12 years okay I know Nick name already is writing down we have a listener who tweets my show and responds so I don't know who is his name is Nick name so I just said Nick name I did comedy straight for 12 years I know what your response is going to be Nick name but go ahead anyway and then I hit the wall financially and I took writing jobs and I took stand up for granted I'll always be funny oh I see there's a price for that the guys who just kept doing it either some of them kept doing it and they shouldn't have right oh of course well there's that and that's not for me to decide that's for their loved ones to decide me and if you need to do it keep doing it right oh you mean like you don't mean lack of talent you mean like their lifestyle and like that kind of stuff or lack of luck will you find yourself maybe on a cruise ship away from your family for three weeks I see okay I mean I am not judging but for me and I never played a cruise ship but to end up on a cruise ship away from my family for two weeks to do three shows seems like for me it would be hell really but it's funny well you know Al Martin who you know owner and booker of Broadway comedy club one of the things he said too when I was brand new and like I auditioned for him he would say it's important in this business to travel light or like particularly when you're starting out it seems like traveling and I remember at the time like I was still a virgin I was like oh I travel anorexic like I have a boyfriend I have no whatever I got nothing so don't worry about that I don't give a shit about my day job but I do think that that's a good point like when you say that to me like if somebody offered a cruise ship I'd take it right now but I don't have a kid I don't have a husband so I do understand then how it becomes when you know my mom would say about this when your life isn't your own anymore or you have other people you have to look out for too aside from yourself then you do have considerations that you need to make absolutely or you have to work it out with your spouse or your boyfriend girlfriend whatever and you know sure when we take a break we're talking with Angela Cobb we'll be back after this I'm going to say something to our guest before I introduce our guest I want to just piss him off and say let's start the clock so I we've just found out that Micah Fox has a migraine so she can't make it and Laurie Kilmartin is stuck in LA I guess they're having rain and Angela Cobb is with us on the line is what a treat what a treat to have this next gentleman on the show his state of the industry from 1996 at the just for laughs festival is available for download right now on iTunes go to iTunes yes go to iTunes right now and download Andy Kindler's 1996 just for laughs stop laughing stop laughing when you're promoting something I'm doing the Bill Maher school of comedy no no no he laughs because it's so funny you laugh because you're mocking you're mocking an old recording that's not even it's available on cassette tape by the way you have to download a cassette player on iTunes no you can't download you send to Burrell's Burrell's transcripts what about Merkel Press I don't even know that one you send it to Michael Cicina you kind of go along the way 606.09 oh my god Andy Kindler do you have a long gene a long gene symphonet bear me I don't even know what these words mean that's how disturbed I am I don't know what along I think it's a watch Andy Kindler joins us tell me about this because I'm gonna go believe it or not if I weren't lucky enough to be speaking with you right now I'd be on iTunes downloading your 1996 just for laughs state of the industry speech on iTunes my old my old job we're dating now we're dating hey so how do I down I'm serious I want to buy this so tell me how do I buy this and we'll be back with more we'll be back with more Jews instructing Jews after these messages look at the top of your pull down screen on the upper right hand corner of your computer screen there will be a pull down menu that's the thing with the letters on it that I put my fingers on and push down select download Jew material in the when the pops up and then I hit return hit return that's what I was hoping every time I would do evening at the improv hit return my mother is such a Zionist and so anti-Palestinian she's taken the return key off her typewriter I don't know what that means have you heard this what's that? it's the right of return it's an Oslo Accord joke I know that one David do you know this organization remember when you used to did something are you there? start again please do you remember when you could give a donation to an organization they planted tree in Israel planted tree in Israel that same organization they will remove a settler from the West Bank in your name in your name in your name there's a little plaque they'll put a plaque where the Jew settler used to live are you a fan of BB? are you a fan of BB? oh he's so good he said Trump was doing it the right way with a solid head on his shoulders with a solid head on his shoulders do you believe they I mean whatever if Rabin was so good what happened to that Rabin if he was so great I think Leah Rabin Yitzchak Rabin's wife she said that was a bad joke by the way I was going to answer that question okay as Leah Rabin said at her husband's funeral to BB Netanyahu you killed him that's in respect did you know she said that to him? no I did not know that so that's what you were pretty much saying is that Benjamin Netanyahu after Yitzchak Rabin was moving very close to a two state solution with the Palestinians drummed up nationalist anti-Palestinian Islamophobia in Israel that provoked a zealot to shoot Yitzchak Rabin that was the joke you were making correct? yes but David can I interject one more joke? at my dad's funeral my mom my mom turned to me and she said I have to but you a guy walks into I think that's the wrong punch line that might be the wrong punch line for a different joke I remember when my father died the rabbi asked me how old was he and I said 71 and the rabbi said beef and broccoli well my favorite joke in the world one of my favorite jokes is the Jewish woman who calls the paper she wants to put an announcement because her husband died she says that my husband died I want to put an announcement how much is it? $5 a word oh that's very expensive okay just put in sol died I'm sorry man there's a 5 word minimum oh it's very expensive okay put in sol died Volvo for sale here's the true my father on his death bed this is a true story we brought apple strudel because you know and he literally said don't touch it it's for after the funeral I swear to God on my life I swear to God that's true you know that joke you know that joke no I don't know that joke I know I don't know it no no no there's a famous Jewish joke you know sol is dying going in and out of a coma and he's going back Becky Becky you stretch it out for 3 minutes he goes do I smell apple strudel and she goes it's for after the funeral this is an absolutely true story there was a comedian from Canada his name was Stan Schachter and he was so funny and he told me he goes I went to play this Jewish retirement home and they told me Stanley don't go over 20 minutes because we're having with your act because we're having sponge cake and believe me when they smell the sponge cake the show is open Jews and food I was at a bar mitzvah a very fancy bar mitzvah and the dinner gets served and all the Jews are looking at this way and I said you know you Jewish women all you do is talk about food but you're not willing to do anything about it because the stereotype is that Jewish women are horrible cooks was your mother a good cook no my mother would say I made dinner and I would say what did I do to you that you would inflict such pain on me to put this in front of me but anyway I said so you Jewish women do nothing about food talk about it and there was a South African couple and they said Jewish women in South Africa were great cooks until the end of apartheid this is true and I go how did the end of apartheid destroy Jewish cooking and they said well it wasn't just blacks in South Africa it was Asians who weren't allowed to mingle once Jewish people covered Chinese food in South Africa Jewish women checked out of the kitchen I'll tell you it sounds apartheid sounds like a lot of fun but this angle to it sounds like you can make a big kill from this kind of information well you know there are unintended consequences you and I both unlike Dick Cheney we're for the end of apartheid well you told me you used to write the lighter side of apartheid by David Baird okay so now that we've okay let's get down to business let's get down to business you don't like BB Netanyahu you think there's I hate him like poison and you know there's a woman I saw on your favorite show Don Lemon and I don't know why you love that guy I find him very annoying but you're like Andy call me Andy watch Don Lemon I'll watch it I'm taping it believe me I'll see Andy I call you up every night you would not believe there was a very bigoted guest and you would not believe what Don Lemon didn't say to them well Don Lemon to his credit actually did stand up his woman's name is Liz Burney she's like the Zionist organization of America she wouldn't even criticize Trump for the anti-Semitism that surrounds him she's like where were you people during Obama when Obama was she's claiming Obama was anti-Semitic this is the Zionist organization of America so Alex do not rejoin that organization cancel your car he won't stop it he won't stop it with the next year in Jerusalem here's why I'm proud to be Jewish 80% of American Jews maybe a little maybe tiny bit fewer 80% of American Jews hate Donald Trump is that a fair statement they also hate Alan Dershowitz Alan Dershowitz Alan Dershowitz hates Alan Dershowitz the reason I think that's a pretty good number for a religion absolutely how can you be in favor how can any Jew be in favor of subjugating people for any reason to believe that that's going forward a good system is that these you have anything perhaps we were subjugated I have a memory of previous subjugation Queen Esther am I still on did something happen in the 30s I didn't hear about now you watch Bill Marr I mean that was the worst thing I've ever seen in my life I know you like Milo stop sending me the brochures about Milo I don't want to hear your pro Milo material you think he's funny you love his side gags you love his pearls he has a pearl necklace usually when he that guy is a hack usually when Milo has a pearl necklace he's leaving a men's room and no offense not to do anything wrong with that but what is the that guy got the worst act on a basic how horrible he is at what he does he's not even a good hate monger I can't believe that guy is he's so rich who would give him a book deal who gives him a book deal besides Simon and Schuster did you you didn't hear the opening of my show no you know what happened here no I didn't hear the opening of the show and I didn't hear the cold open my segment I pulled the headphone out of my ear like a Jew and the shuffleboard court when he finds out when he has something he's rubbing suntan lotion on his puppet puppet for those of you who are a puppet is your schwanze but it's a tiny schwanze it's a schmackle it's your belly button wait a second then my father molested me it's your belly button oh my god I think so maybe I'm wrong I think you're right your puppet is your belly button I think you're right but I have to call my everything else means penis shalom shalom means penis so you didn't hear the opening of the show where I went off on Bill Maher this is my complaint about Bill Maher and Milo Yeppinapolis they both I don't know Milo is calling himself a Jew I saw what I briefly saw in Bill Maher he identifies as a gay Jew I thought he said he was a Catholic he is but he's doing what Bill Maher does whenever Bill Maher is incendiary he brings up the fact that his mother is a Jew oh he's throwing it all in throwing it all in we need them to make our life any worse than it already is you can't be a Jew by convenience right? no you can't be a Jew by convenience you know what the other thing that bothers me is watching this HBO documentary which is a really good documentary it's called Valentine's Day it's about a transgender kid he got murdered in the school an oxnard it's a whole long story but they're talking about these neo-naxies and it's like Bill Maher's whole thing that the only thing to worry about is Muslims forget that there was an Oklahoma city forget Andre Brevik yeah forget that it's only the Muslims that we have to worry about it's so brain-dead stupid that's the thing that's amazing this guy hosts a show and he's a moron he is not a bright man I'm not saying he's not an intelligent man but he does not use his brain he's intellectually lazy he knows nothing about religion he thinks when he had Lea Remini on last night a religion could be a cult not all cults are religions you may not like the Catholic church but they don't tell you I'll give you some information then you give me a million dollars I'll give you another Bible one of two million dollars his knowledge of what he hates is so limited it's distressing to me add a joke to it I don't watch the show anymore and I I'm not I'm not you I'm going to give you a compliment I said this to you and I mean this and we'll get funny again in a second on Shavuas on Shavuas it's very easy to do political humor it's very easy for somebody like me to attack Donald Trump it's very easy for me to go after Exxon Mobil on a podcast that doesn't run commercials there's nothing brave here for a comedian to attack the people who could hire him for a comedian to go after Louis C.K. right you are the bravest because you're funny you're the bravest comic out there for that makes me well that makes me very that's so nice of you to say and I'm very touched I never even used the word touched I moved it makes me feel better about the fact I don't have a pot to piss in because Louis C.K. all of a sudden is manufacturing piss pots you we won't let me buy one even if I could buy one and I remember because I remember when I first met you we had coffee with Eddie Krasnik I was headlining the improv in San Francisco and I was more famous than you at the time and I remember giving you advice about comedy I remember that week though a lot I remember that week just giving you bits I didn't know how funny you were because you were being coy with me I don't think I was America's sweetheart then no you weren't and I remember thinking boy why is he attacking people who can help him that's how mercenary I am thinking I don't even remember doing it on a petty basis at that point it wasn't even professional it was more like who's that guy Rick Reynolds how does he get a one man show right and Bruce Smirnoff had the best one man show Bruce Smirnoff's one man now you're not being sarcastic I loved his one man there was a time about 1995 every comic was doing a one man show and Bruce Smirnoff had the single best one man show I remember taking my father to see that and I saw it like five times and Bruce Smirnoff's one man show was hands down the funny right? well he would show a picture of himself with a Jew pro and then he showed a picture and that was his dream woman and he said something like if I can't be with a woman like this I'm going to be alone guess what I'm alone and of course he did have the the weasel Popko's the weasel joke is the there's no better joke than that and he was willing at the time to do kind of what you do in that he exposed Johnny Carson when Johnny had just gone off and Johnny was a Johnny was a saint Johnny was a saint you never said anything bad about Johnny Bruce Smirnoff was the first one to tell the truth about Johnny Carson and Carol O'Connor oh I don't remember oh that's right the Carol O'Connor story and you know what how some people like you know you Kathy Griffin will tell a story and you go how much of this is true very little because she looks way better than everybody else I believe every detail of both the Carson story and the Carol O'Connor story are true right and we love Kathy Griffin right no oh you know I love am I wrong oh she hates me weren't you close friends with her yes oh so that's a personal thing it's a personal thing personal no no no let me finish let me finish oh Kathy Griffin that's the kind of person that we should have in comedy more forget the other stuff I like Kathy Griffin I do you know what you should do just as a joke just cross her once I don't get close I don't know if you've noticed this but I don't get close to that people I haven't seen you in the same room with a person since 19 buh buh buh bing now David's laughing I got 19 buh buh buh bing from David that is David's joke really yes you said you used to love those comics who would say you know I started comedy back in 19 buh buh buh bang you don't remember that's your joke one of our early bits I think on Yom Kipper I said I'm still writing 6-2 buh buh buh bing on my checks hey you know Mel Gibson it's 2017 Mel Gibson is still writing I hate the Jews on his checks so you can now purchase I'm not plugging this statement oh yeah but do plug it I'm getting paid for this appearance I was told that with a lot of money being a radio guest years ago haven't seen a dime I want to get to this it's part of a larger point if I go to iTunes which I'm going to do after the show to purchase this it's not a physical store it's not near the Apple store it's a song it's tunes right so you're singing this you have to you have to click on first of all you have to sing state of the industry state of the industry into your computer microphone first you have to insert your AOL insert your AOL CD from 1987 remember they used to show up you'd get an AOL CD in the mail and you'd say how can they afford this they know it's unbelievable they must be made of money over there the first time I saw that I said this is so impressive they should buy Time Warner they should buy that's right is that how old my references are? is that what it is? no but that's whenever whenever you say whenever you hear Donald Trump say let's privatize social security let's privatize our medicine always remember that Gerald Levin the genius at HBO and Steve Case the guy who dreamed up AOL Time Warner and that should tell you how brilliant people with money are so that well you know to Ted Turner's credit he he hated the idea of the deal he also hated what happened to CNN too I some parts of Ted Turner I admire but I think deep down he's still he's he'll tell you a throat out he'll tell you a throat out to get an ice cream cone don't get me wrong but in his defense it's a really good tasting ice cream cone he'll take a union guy to knock the union ahead off of a building that he'll do that let's not get ourselves but in his defense he gave us Tush and Tesh he would dig up who's the guy who they buried he'd dig up Hoffa and bury you next to him if it stays with $3 on a residual all right what do I type into iTunes what is the title of this? this is the longest plug I've ever people are you know what they're not going to want to do as it is over they're going to feel like they've already heard the state of the industry with you hocking them do you realize that most people who are listening to this have already downloaded it Dave while you're getting a cup let me get a cup of coffee let me let me get my leg warmers on this plug is more unseemly than what's on top of Senator Proxmire's head I don't want to say this plug this is a bad plug but Travolta Travolta rejected it in order to hear Andy Kindler's 1996 just for laughs state of the industry speech on iTunes I guess I will type in Andy Kindler most people believe it or not do not know that every year you give a state of the industry speech at the Montreal Comedy Festival it is the most highly attended event at the Montreal Comedy Festival you look back at comedy and you rip a new one and you expose comedians and agents and managers for what they are nobody is safe why did you pick 1996 okay so the reason why I picked 1996 was well first of all that many of my feuds I wanted a lot of my feuds from the 90s to reach a larger audience that was my first goal the reason they said because that happens to be the first year of the speech so this company Comedy Dynamics they approached us and they said do you want to release one so my manager said why don't we just listen to the first one see how it sounds and when I listened to the first one I was totally surprised because my images I always think I'm better now than I was then but I was really happy with how it was and also it was fascinating to me to see who I had grudges against then and it was the first of many Leno jokes where I said Leno's in the Guinness Book of Records for going the longest period of time without having an authentic moment and it was the first year of the speech so it was like kind of a who knew how it would turn out it just happened to be at the first year it was a success it's about I think it's slightly under an hour this is the first time because this has become the main event at the Montreal Comedy Festival every year so it was 1996 did you think it was going to become a tradition no I had no idea I did know once see what happened was I wrote an article for National Ampoule called the Hack Comics Handbook which is still on my website people want to see it and then I did a live demonstration in Montreal with like Blake Apache and Pat Naswell all these comics and we demonstrated how to be a bad comic and then the festival said try something else the next year and I tried to save the industry and then the first it was really well I had a feeling because it went so well we would do it again next year but I had no idea it would be 20 years and not only was it 20 years there were a couple of years I actually cried it was so horrible what do you mean it was just the first few years was like it was a novelty type thing they always did pretty well but then the first time it just for some reason didn't go you know it's like I can't even explain just hit or miss I was like almost sobbing and it happened one more time at the new hotel where the festival is because they put me in a long rectangular room where the people on the back were watching me on screens and I remember crying after that but I have after 20 years I have gotten a formula that I'm fairly confident won't die right the Delta was the old hotel right I remember so you remember both of us were up for a cup of coffee so you're a purist I had a cup of coffee with the Phillies with the Phillies in 93 you're a purist and Alex Brazell who you know he is my boss I had an incident with him and I want to ask you for advice is this true yes yes so I want to ask you for advice Alex Brazell Alex has impeccable taste when it comes to comedy he's 28 years old I'm sorry he does and he's bright he's brilliant the guy's got a mind I wish I had his brain at 28 so we were at a club and I was performing and we saw a comic and I said book him, book him for the podcast this guy's really funny and Alex goes F him he's a hack I said I have I think he's brilliant not he's a hack everything he says has already been done and I went what I went wow that's okay I'm going with the crowd all right Alex you book the show you know better than I and then to Alex's credit he sent me the next day can I mention I'll say he was on Conan right I'm not trashing Conan he was on Conan the next night and to Alex's credit he said I guess I was wrong and I wrote back or maybe I was wrong right but then I had this long conversation with Alex and I said unto him that it's great to be a purist but you know on a day to day existence when you're grinding out life there's the ideal and then there's what you have to do right but you are an idea is this what you said before you pitched full house bringing back full house full or full or house and that's the difference between you and me and I think to some degree we've never had a feud I don't think you care enough about me to I don't I think I think you view me a bit you know and I am I've compromised and you had nobody thinks you've nobody thinks that well it's not like first of all what do you like the you're playing chachi on a sitcom or something like that are you Mr. Belvedere or something but you are a purist and so I mean I'm a purist but when I was completely broke I took a job on last comic standing I was you would I was that was the year that I was I did it you don't remember oh that's right that's right but I see I said to myself I'm going to do it but I'm not going to do it like a Simon Cowell I'm going to try to have respect for myself so but you know but you have to make a living but I wouldn't do you know you told me years ago you would you would appear to Nazi propaganda because you said to me I'll never forget you said look somebody has to play the Jew somebody has to play the Jew that's from my act kids that's from my act 1993 oh my well so first of all are you I have a couple of questions I want to ask you you can answer them flippantly or not by the way this is when I knew my marriage was in trouble my kids then wife came to see me it was in Glendale and everybody told me not to do this joke on last comic standing I was in the semifinals and like a schmuck I thought I was going to go all the way I always like on star search you know I do these roast battles I always think I'm going to win I'm going to win but I was I was moving up because Greg Geraldo and you were the judges and I figured you know much my checks are clearing are you breathing into the microphone I'm sorry I am because I'm holding the microphone close but I shouldn't be breathing that much but it's making me hard are you divorced now I didn't even know I was married yeah I'm divorced I'm sorry to hear that I'm very sorry to hear that why? because you're the reason I just happened to be naked in your garage I have to I have to but you your wife said she lost something in her vagina that's all it was see I'm shocked to hear you even say the word vagina you know what I actually twinged I twinged a little bit by the way I have to but you is what you mentioned up at the top the guy comes home he sees his best friend banging his wife he goes Saul I have to it's one of the great jokes you know the one put me down for three no oh yeah how many times do you have sex with the wife in order to save the woman's dying and the doctor says in order for her to live you have to have sex with her 15 times a week and the husband goes put me down for three you know what's amazing I've never found out what that disease was that requires 15 four indications a week hang on man I'm like getting dizzy seriously there's a certain okay hang on the room is spinning I'm being a serious hand I actually believe that proves the existence of God when you have that hyperventilating experience yeah so I think I have a question for you oh so last comic standing I knew my marriage was over because I had a joke where I insulted women and then I said hey I love women I just performed at a battered women's shelter of course I bombed I bombed because they wouldn't listen and so I was doing this up until like four years ago which and it's a first of all it's a joke off a joke taking a joke why are there so many battered women because they just won't listen so that's an actual street joke and then I did a variation on it and it was dumb and the person who I was married to and my kids said daddy don't do that joke and I go but it's funny and one of my daughters goes it's a joke off a joke and it's revealing that you're pro beating women and I used to do it remember Karen Runtowski she does those battered women's shelters I used to do the joke about her women's shelters and it would kill that's why I've never made it because I never understood anyway you're a purist you're a purist you grew up go ahead you grew up as a fan of comedy are you able to enjoy comedy for let me then I'll shut up and by the way that's going to be the name of this show then I'll shut up are you able to watch a bad comic because he's so bad he's funny and are you able to watch a bad comic because and enjoy him just because his heart is in the right place he's a hack but he's not hurting anybody well the latter example I wouldn't enjoy because I wouldn't be laughing so I mean I wouldn't like boo the guy but there's no way I could say enjoy him I could feel bad for him feel empathy but it wouldn't be like I go I couldn't laugh which is how I think is the main way to enjoy the comic one of the top three ways now in the former the former number one or a I used to be addicted to bad comic I used to play the Riviera Hotel when Steve Sharipa was the entertainment director and he would get me all of these head shots of all these crazy there was an I'll be sure impersonator and how would you even know what I'll be sure looked like to know if the impersonation was dead on who was I'll be sure I used to love I used to love these terrible acts I used to love it and then I got burnt out on it because then that's what the comedy became in the 90s so now I don't like it as much like I used to be able to watch evening at the improv and just the worst it was the better you know everything was an attitude on steroids from hell what part of them of the McNuggets the chicken does the McNuggets come from all the classics so do you do not forgive bad comedy no I mean I might like to watch Jeff Dunham to get enraged by the racism is it so I don't I don't mind the carrot carrot I mean I don't mind I won't yell at carrot you know what I think I could probably watch Gallagher because Gallagher looks like you could watch him and he might do something so horribly bad that it could cheer you up see I'll defend carrot top my sister of all people sent me his carrot top I do the gay carrot top I'm carrot bottom that's I can't believe I made Andy laugh I can't believe it I love carrot top on the radio that's one of my favorite things I'm holding a tennis racket up to a toaster right now and it's a tennis racket toaster if you're on the court and you want to get hungry you just pop the toaster and slide it to the tennis racket with a very very tight plunger core I'm going to defend carrot top my sister sent me him on Fox News and was outraged by it and I thought he's not hurting anybody except himself it's really why don't you use he'll want that as a poll quote that's really blowing forward it's felt he's not hurting anybody so as a Jew I have a yes this is I'm going to tread on dangerous water here you don't necessarily have to answer the question you we are the we're the people of the word right where we like we like the word and we were readers and we like jokes but there's more to comedy than jokes are you able to get past what somebody is saying when you're watching a comedian because there's most comedy especially now is Angela and we're talking early about authenticity and storytelling and revealing who you are as a person you're able to enjoy somebody who is more about attitude or about what they're saying are you able to enjoy attitude well yeah but I mean there's also been people you know I could make the argument that like I'm a huge Rickles fan I think Rickles is more attitude than the actual material but then some of the things he say some of the things he says are pure gold with the actual words are amazing but he also has a funny attitude so I think yeah I can definitely appreciate but if it's not but I can't appreciate something that's I don't like things that are like well it's not my cup of tea but I appreciate that I don't like and the great thing about Rickles was he didn't have jokes you can't write for Rickles he was totally in the moment are you judging he was so great on panel he was so great on panel when he would go on Letterman and Carson right he was kind of the opposite coin he was in that it's the same thing totally unprepared he's got he's basically got nothing and so and you and you realize when Rickles is doing panel he is completely unprepared has nothing and we'll make mistakes so it's a high it's that high wire act that we appreciate when you judge comedy are you judging the degree of difficulty well people say that they ask me that when they look down at my scorecard do you know that I score I score the act I say that joke was five to four to three double play what did you say in 1996 that you were right about and you were wrong about without you know that's interesting I say that because I have examples of both I offered one million dollars for footage of Whoopi Goldberg being funny what year is it David what year is it in today's dollars I would be offering 20 million dollars by the way I was right I've heard that what you just said probably a thousand times from people quoting you but I've never actually heard you say it that's the first I've heard that Andy kindler is willing to pay a million dollars to anybody that's amazing okay what were you wrong about now have you heard me do this one live who died and made Jim Belushi a big star so here is what I was wrong about what I was wrong about which is why I think it's compelling to listen to it because I've realized over the years that a lot of I may have and people who have pointed out to me I may be sometimes occasionally angry about things sometimes the anger is based on and in the last few years of the speech I've actually had fun bringing people in and saying yeah it's based on my own envy and jealousy so back then I had been bumped from Letterman and I had issues with Robert Morton and so I was kind of like and that was when they were saying that Letterman at 1130 they're not going to do this like Robert Morton was saying they can't do the same show as they did at 1230 so I basically during the speech said Letterman should just go with and it was kind of dumb in a way Letterman should go with what time slot it is well I was wrong because eventually I think Letterman really did find his I mean it took a while because he was always hilarious but the stuff that happened with his heart I felt like made a dramatic change and the show became very similar to what it was when it started is it fair to say that of all you were a regular Letterman is it I think it's fair to say that you are the most daring comic to do Letterman maybe Hicks but he didn't really do Dave on CBS you were the biggest chance that he took and you're just going by audience response right in terms of no I'm talking about appealing to he wanted smooth comedy he didn't want anything rough around the edges he wanted money in the bank and the exceptions he made were Kenneson and Bill Hicks on the NBC show at 1230 you were the only rough around the edges comic that was put on the show well I appreciate you saying that but I would also make the argument that he did because I think nobody had a better sense of humor than Letterman so in other words like he loved Amy Cideris and Amy Cideris didn't always kill but she was too killed to me I thought she was hilarious but he always did like eyeballs in a way he loved Chris Elliott obviously and Bonnie Hunt so I think he did champion champion it just happened that Richard Lewis killed but Richard Lewis was kind of an erotic act at that point so I think he always liked what he liked I think that's the whereas Leno absolutely is not comfortable with anybody being funny around him because he has the Trump syndrome of down deep just having tremendous insecurities that he covers up with Bravado this is I got a little more time with you this is really important to me can you just you're being very generous this is a very generous gift that you're giving me by doing the show and I cannot thank you enough I started Dave you have to but me so I started the show by saying that I think people shouldn't be getting their news from Bill Maher and I'm going to bring this back to Letterman so stick with me I started the show by saying he was that Bill was wrong for having Milo Yaponapolis on his show because there's a live audience it's like the Roman Circus you win by who gets the largest response but the audience on Bill's show is partisan so all Larry Wilmore had to do and I saw over time was say to Milo I did too I've never watched it before so Milo Larry Wilmore said F you and the place went nuts and I thought well you're not winning you're not really moving the cause because the people who believe in Milo Yaponapolis are saying well there's a black guy and the only thing he can say is F you so you can but I think he was also genuinely upset I don't think he was trying to win with that right and I said that I apologize Andy but I love Bill and I love the show but I don't think it's I didn't know that I didn't even know you liked the show I worked for him for years let me finish I can get your book do you want to and I think he's oh yeah let's put this behind us people like us we can all be reasonable wouldn't you love me turning on a dime becoming a sellout guy so good so I don't believe that Bill is doing a comedy version of meet the press and I think the problem when you have Milo Yaponapolis on is there's an audience and audiences are dangerous when you're playing to an audience audience you're not giving information that had Bill gone one on one with Milo the way he went one on one with Obama then you can have a discussion but when it's a cluster F a gang bang of everybody trying to get their points made Milo is able to use sophistry rhetorical devices to throw people off their game and help his cause and that gets back to Letterman he didn't want on on