Hello, thank you for coming to my talk. My name is Masayoshi Ishikawa from Sony. So my talk is about artists called NatX, so not Linux. And by the way, did you see our demonstration at the technical showcase? OK, thank you. So actually, we started this project almost three years ago. And before this project, we released a Linux-based audio player called Workman just in 2007, so just 10 years ago. So which has ARM9, not Cortex-A9, of course. Then we released an Android-based audio player in 2011, which has dual Cortex-A9. And when we started this project, so we investigated existing operating systems, including UC Linux. But unfortunately, the processor, which I will explain later, cannot have a theorem, but only has internal SRAM. And some products don't have SPI flash due to size and cost issues, which means that all programs have to run on internal SRAM. So we had to use real-time OS for our project. So here is the attendable today's talk. Firstly, I introduced our products and discussed typical software development and why we chose the NatX. Then I will explain how we put the NatX to our microcontroller and explain how we implemented feature investments, such as power management and fast air rolling. Then I will explain C++ 11 and debugging and testing, and including ADV. And finally, I will show you some short demo videos, which is almost the same as the last night's technical showcase. So these are our first three products, so two IC recorders and one audio player, which we released in late 2015 and early 2016. These IC records support microSDHC and microSDXC, which has a larger capacity than SDHC, for example, 64 gigabyte. Also, they support audio signal processing, such as digital pitch control. And the second one is called ICD-6-3, which support high-resolution audio recording up to 96K, 24-bit, as well as high-resolution playback up to 192K, 24-bits. And this model has Bluetooth, which is used for wireless control with a regular mode app on smartphone. And the last one is called the Workman WS-3, which actually, this device is very small. But it supports ambient sound mode, and it can play back music up to 12 hours. And actually, we released one more IC recorder last year. And we will soon release one more Workman, which has a Bluetooth headset feature, like this WS-3. So this device shows internal hardware components. And as you can see, this table, so there are so many differences between the products. For example, audio part is different, maybe here. Audio recording is different, so display is also different. The SX series has a spear flash and NFC and Bluetooth. But there are two important things in this chart. The first one is a release schedule. Actually, it was very tough for us to release all of this software in just four months. So we had to consider productivity as well as quality in software development. And the other one is a display support without a spear flash. Actually, it consumes more internal instruments than other products. And as I mentioned earlier, the microcontroller does not support SDM. So we had to consider dynamic application loading and course size reduction. And this table shows a typical software development. And here, I divided the product model into three categories. And perhaps most of you know Android or Linux-based. But this Android Linux model has rich hardware, such as Cortex-L series. And memory size is much more higher capacity. And usually, we can use open source-based development tools, such as DCC or GDB and ADB, such as open to maybe use for actual software development. However, a typical environment for a software environment for outer space is slightly different. Of course, CPU is not so fast. Actually, Cortex-L series is almost 100 or 200 megahertz. And memory size is not so large. And typically, tool chain were some tools provided by MSU vendor. And however, we have much experience with Linux or Android-based software development. So we had to deeply consider how we applied these software development approaches into our R2O model. And actually, so there is so many R2Os in the world now. For example, free R2Os and Contek, and GBOs, and so on. So first, we had to find the best R2Os for our development. And finally, we decided to use the NATX. So perhaps most of you are not familiar with it. So recently, the NATX is getting popular, for example, some drone project, maybe PX4, maybe some for its flight controller. And maybe in this week, Samsung announced Tizen RT, which is based on NATX. So NATX is getting more popular. But when we started the project, NATX was not so popular. But here, as you can see, this website, the NATX has so many key features, but it's scalable and portable. And the most important thing is the projects and RPC support. Because we have been much experienced with Linux and Android world. So this project support is very useful to reuse existing software. And in other words, we can reduce the training costs and the communication costs between software engineers. And also, health support is also very important for us. Because our product has so many features, but hardware resources is very limited. So we had to divide one big application into more smaller ones. And other features like driver framework and Linux configuration and many MCU and board supports, these are very useful for system software engineers. And finally, BSD license is very useful and perfect for us. And these are technical challenges in our project. As I wrote in our first lecture, we ported the NATX to microcontroller by ourselves with using open tools such as OpenOCD. And considering a small RAM size and reusing existing software were also big challenging items for us. And finally, we applied more than software technologies with these tools and services like QMU and C++ ribbon and GitHub and Jenkins to improve productivity and software quality. So this is very rough software stack, so which contains several components, including applications. And for example, QMU, which is a CPU emulator. And this emulator is used for software porting. And here MCU is not actually not a software component, but I put it here to compare with QMU. And as for OpenSystem, we chose the NATX 7.5 because a little bit older version. And regarding the tool, we decided to use GCC 4.8 which supports C++ ribbon and OpenOCD 0.9 in development version. So please support SWD, so see why at the back. So in today's talk, I will mainly focus on these yellow books. So next slide shows the feature list of the semiconductor that's LCA 23450, so which we use in our products. The microcontroller has Cortex M3 dual core, but currently only single core is used. And also it has a DSP32B fixed point dual MAC DSP. And it has an internal SR, and which capacity is a little larger than typical microcontroller has. And also it supports a higher resolution audio, up to 192K, 32-bit. So in addition, it has hardware logic such as mp3 encoder and decoder to reduce power consumption. Of course, it supports standard peripherals like USB, SPI, I2C. And it can operate at two different voltage, for example, 1.2 volt and 1.0 volt, which depends on actual speed. So from this side, I will explain how we ported the NATX to the microcontroller. Actually, so we really appreciate that our semiconductor provides us a FPGA code. And as you can see in this picture, the system consists of several boards. For example, this is the Xilinx FPGA board here, and this is the IO board. And it includes EMS here, and SD card here, and audio board here, and display card here, and Bluetooth and SWD board. And actual clock speed was not so fast as we expected. So just 20 miles per hour. But we finished porting most of these features so before we received the engineering samples. And after we received the engineering samples, we tested the EMMC board and power management and suspended regime, which we could not test with the FPGA. And to start porting the NATX, so firstly, we had to set up OpenOCD on chip debugger by writing OpenOCD scripts. So without this tool, we cannot boot the microcontroller. And to connect the OpenOCD to the microcontroller with SWD, so serial wire debug. So with a popular FTDI chip, so perhaps some of you might know. And actually, so when we started this project, OpenOCD did not officially support SWD, but it was so lucky for us that SWD support was officially merged into the master branch so just before we received the FPGA. And this screen shows the OpenOCD, so it detects this microcontroller. Sorry, it might be difficult to delete, but please download my presentation slide from the conference website. So next is NATX porting. So in today's talk, I will not explain the standard peripherals, but explain the microcontroller-specific features. And actually, AMMC-LSD is one of the standard peripherals, but here I have a special topic to mention. And as you can see at this chart, we implemented the driver with using a bulk device API, however, so we did not use AMMC-LSD protocol driver in the NATX. Instead, the driver calls are ROM APIs, which on semiconductor provides. So for example, identify card and read sector and write sector, so such APIs are provided in ROM API. And due to a ROM code restriction, we had to use fixed partitions. And also we, the driver used a DMA to reduce CPU load works, and it works with a hot port driver, so which is newly introduced to detect the SD card. So next is a file system. Actually, NATX supports several file systems such as PROC-FS and VFAT. So in our project, we use PROC-FS for debugging and wake log, and VFAT file systems are used to store program files properties and databases. And also, we added the so-called EVFAT, so which on semiconductor provides to support expert and IC records of specific APIs, so such as DPI. The name of EVFAT might be confusing, but they gave this name. So here, please remember that EVFAT just supports IC records of specific features, so including expert. And this screenshot shows the result of DF and my own comments on ICD-SX3s. And as you can see, this screenshot, so these file systems are actually used on our products. For example, SlashDB uses a VFAT just for databases and SlashMAT SlashSZ0 uses EVFAT because it's a content area. So, and Slash PROC uses a PROC-FS. And next slide shows the EVFAT portings. And as you can see in this chat, we implement the EVFAT by using virtual file system APIs. So in the similar to AMMC and SD drivers, the system, the file system calls ROM API. So for example, so mount and open read and write. And because the ROM API support UTF-16 only, so we added a conversion logic to UTF-8 because UTF-8 is very easy to handle inside operating system, including libc. So we actually did not modify the file system or libc, so just added this yellow box. And as you can see, this screenshot, maybe here, so you can see a Japanese file name is supported. So let's move on to our audio support. And as I mentioned earlier, the microcontroller has dedicated audio hardware logic, so such as MPC encoder and decoder to reduce the power consumption. And also, as you can see in this chat, it has a unique hardware feature, so call it audio buffer, to support flexible audio signal flow. And for example, by setting audio buffer register, you can change a signal audio flow, so inside the microcontroller. And as for the driver implementation on the NATX, and actually the NATX hardware audio subsystem, but we introduce new APIs like Linux R3 to be more simple. And also the API support are non-working mode as well. And this is an audio playback example, so using DSP. So in this example, so first, so CPU set up audio blocks inside the microcontroller, and also set up the external audio codecs, which is not shown in this chat, and then boot DSP. Then CPU reads the audio file on the storage device, and audio data is sent to DSP through the audio buffer. And then DSP decodes the audio frame, and finally PSM data is output to I2S0. Of course, actual playback is a little more complex. For example, as I said, MP3 case, and MP3 playback case, MP3 hardware decoder is actually used, but you can understand how the audio playback signal flow works so inside this microcontroller. And this is an audio recording example, and in this example, so first, so CPU set up the audio blocks inside the microcontroller, and also set up the external audio codecs, so which is not shown in this chat. That's then PCM data is from I2S0, and pre-processed by DSP. And finally, then PCM data is encoded by MP3 hardware encoder, and finally CPU writes MP3 audio file into a file. And actually our project has a recording monitoring feature, so real audio signal flow is much more complex than this chart. So let's move on to our power management part. So usually it's a power management consistent with our following techniques. For example, clock gating, so which is a disabled clock for unused books and power gating, so which disable power for unused books, and DBFS and suspend the regime, so which I will explain later. And this finish shows our power domain inside the microcontroller. For example, the microcontroller has several parts of the main such as audio, S1, USB, and the spare parts cache, and if the block is not used, the power should be disabled to reduce power leakage. DBFS stands for dynamic voltage and frequency scaling, and as I mentioned earlier, the microcontroller supports two different voltage, and using a lower voltage can reduce actual power consumption. And as you can see this chart, so we define the active mode and idle mode, and define its clock table respectively. For example, active mode clocks are 160 megahertz and 80 megahertz and so on. And based on the CPU, so idle ratio, the clock control is done autonomously by DBFS. And as you can see in this chart, actually it changes our internal divider and selector in this yellow box. And however, the clock can also be boosted when, for example, the key are pressed or the white loading application to get a more quick response. So next chart shows our idle ratio calculation used in DBFS. Actually the NATX are harder CPU load monitoring, but we found that it's not accurate, but because a CPU load in the IRQ hardware is not considered. So we implement a very simple algorithm. And as you can see this chart, so CPU issues, so WFI, so weight to weight IRQ, here we measure slip time here, and in microsecond order, and then accumulate the slip time to get idle time. So write this equation. And finally idle ratio can be calculated by next formula. And to measure this slip time, so we use hardware timer instead of cystic in Quartex M3, because this hardware timer is not affected by the frequency change. So it's very easy to calculate the slip time. So next is a suspend and resume. And as I wrote in the abstract, so we introduce the white clock, so which is Android developers are very familiar with. So actually we implement a very similar API, so which Android kernel provides. And the mechanism is that if applications that are passed to men, and if no wakelocks exist, then the system automatically enters into a slip-dip mode to reduce the power. And for example, during all the playback, the middleware acquires its wakelock to prevent from entering into a slip-dip mode. And if the middleware to release a wakelock when the playback stopped, and then enter into a slip-dip mode, it's automatically. And here is the actual implementation. So when entering into a slip-dip mode, the system power down on use block and wait. Then the system can be waken up by interrupts, so such as GPIO. So finally before restarting user, the kernel timer is re-synced to re-synchronize with RTC. So let's move on to our F support. So F stands for executable and linking and file format and used for application dynamic loading. And as I mentioned earlier, our system memory is not so large. It's about 1.6 megabyte, so not a gigabyte of course. And to overcome this condition, so memory overlay technique could be used, but we found that memory overlay is not flexible. So we decided to use dynamic loadings with L, so which the NATX supports. So with this feature, so we can divide one big application into more smaller ones. For example, so home application or settings application and so on. And also we can use separate, so debug commands simultaneously. So in this screenshot, so you can see a several application is running as well as debug commands such as free and PS. However, the NATX L loading was actually not so vast because it was designed for small memory systems. So we modified it to be fast. The following are our approaches. So first one is the section data cache, so which allocates a big memory to hold its section table to reduce EMMC access. Because SEM access speed is much, much faster than EMMC access speed. So the second one is a symbol name replacement, so which shorten its symbol name, so by hatching so their names, then sort by the name. And as you can see, example in this year of work, so p-thread, condo auto, so take a set code. So it can be replaced with this hash code. And actually we are also using C++ 11 with so template for middleware and application development. So some symbol name is much longer. So for example, 20-100 byte or 30-100 bytes. So this chart shows how each approach reduces loading time. So actually the section data cache has a big impact. The original loading time was more than 3,000 millisecond, but after applying these techniques, so actual loading time was improved to less than 100 millisecond. And so far I've focused on always porting and enhancement. And from here I will explain about some tools and testing. The first one is QMU. So QMU is an open source based CPU emulator as which support many CPU architecture including Cortex-M3. As a motivation for using QMU was to port software such as Bluetooth stack or good toolkit. Actually we had to finish the portings, Bluetooth stack on QMU plus NATX. So before we receive the FPGA port and audio spring actually worked on QMU plus NATX. And to get a Bluetooth stack working on QMU we had to change our SRAM size and fix some bugs. For example, SD drive malware and big issues. So let's move on to our C++ label. So in this project we decided to use C++ label for mid-range application development to improve productivity as well as the performance. So you're following the main features of C++ label. So for example, auto keyword is which is a compiler determines the site. So for example, the first in this chart can be replaced with a second line. It's very simple. And also we can use a lambda expression and to define your functional projects. The other features right as a smart pointer which is implemented in standard libraries can be used to avoid memory leaks. And also we can use the move semantics which is to improve performance. And other keywords are also useful to improve productivity. And the next slide shows the C++ standard library. And as I mentioned in previous slide, we are using a standard library such as SDD, Konkan Unique, pointer, and so on. And as you can see, this table, so there are some open source based C++ standard library. And finally, we decided to use libc++ from LLBM projects because C++ 11 supports fully supported and license is VSE-like and it's easy to port. And actually we tried the STL port before but we found that it's more difficult to support C++ 11 on our platform. So next slide shows the code size reduction. So to reduce the code size, so first we started with auto-optimization and then apply OS option with size optimization and then apply GC sections so which will remove use sections at link time. And finally, we applied a symbol name replacement which I explained in previous slide. So this just shows the code size comparison example for each techniques. And of course, the writing small code is much, much more important than, but you also have to consider these techniques which are very in common. So as I explained in the net exporting, so we've been using open OCD to debug software and some OSes like Linux and pre-artists are officially supported by open OCD. So this is very useful to debug such as deadlocks. So however, the netx is not supported so which means that we can only debug the current thread. So to support the netx, so we implement the code by ourselves. The approach is almost the same as other RTOSes. So this screenshot shows the GDB windows running on Emacs because I have Emacs so very much. So I decided to use this screenshot. So as you can see this screenshot, you can see all of threads and if you click select one thread, you can see it's called stack here. And actually we released a code on GitHub last year. So if you're interested in this code, please visit dithub.com slash sony and you can find our work. So this slide shows how we can analyze the runtime crash with tools. So similar to Android and Linux, we implement the crash jump mechanism and tools to analyze tools. So this is a typical scenario. So if the crash happens on the target, the crash logs are stored in the RAM and automatically reboot that. Then a crash logs are stored on the storage on EMFC. So then we can retrieve its crash logs by ADB. Then analyze the log with debug symbols. And this screenshot shows the actual crash log. So which is analyzed with the debug symbols. And you can see a stack trace where the actually crash happened. And next is ADB support. And if you are familiar with Android, so you might know what ADB is. So motivation is to test the system without proprietary tools. Because ADB from Android is getting standard. So we'd like to use this ADB tool. To, for example, retrieve internal logs and so on. So currently we support the minimum features like push and pull and shell with remote execution. So because this, the feature is just a testing purpose. So the feature is disabled at factory. So before seeping the products. The actual implementation was not so difficult. So we reuse the NATX, so USB serial driver and modifies the USB descriptor to pretend ADB driver and implement its protocol. So for example, the push and pull and shell protocol. So from the scratch. And actually this screenshot shows pushing a hello application to the target and execute it remotely. Actually you can see a hello world is on the target. So next slide shows the integration testing. So as you can see here, this figure, so we constructed the build and testing system with ADB and cloud based services such as GitHub. So we, if a software engineer pushes a code to GitHub and create your pull request, then the system automatically builds the target code and then deploy the software to the actual each product and then test the products, then test the products with ADB. So finally, you can see a test result on Jenkins. In addition to PCB tests at the factory are done with ADB. Next slide shows the unit testing with Google test. And the Google test is a Google C++ testing for M-Write. So we put it on to our platform. So motivation is to use this framework is to find the back so early and refactor the code safely and so on. So to execute this test, we also use ADB. As you can see this screenshot, so press with the HelloTest program. So then push the program to the target device with ADB and finally execute it remotely. And finally, HelloTest is running on the target and all tests are successfully completed. And this slide shows the DSP software development. So far I explained the open source based software development, but unfortunately as we had to use this I provided to develop a DSP code. So however, so to improve a productivity so in DSP software development. So we implemented some features to assist the software development. So DSP software development. Because DSP has to work with Cortex M3 as I mentioned in order example. So typical approaches like this. So first, so develop a DSP code on the simulator and then run the sample application on Cortex M3. So for example, so recording up or playback application. Then load the DSP code and start the DSP. So finally continue the application on Cortex M3. So it's very simple and we can easily to test the DSP code on our platform. So finally, I will show you some short demo videos which is almost the same as yesterday's technical showcase. And the first video shows the ADB and the first are floating and DBFS. And the second one is a stress testing tool.  So first, this is our product. IC recorder, so UX3. So there is no USB ADB device is shown. So then connect to the first devices and ADB device. So you can see your ADB device is attached. Then so try to log in. So we're ADB, so ADB show. So just log in, complete it. Then try to list the application to check its size. So just copy and paste. And you can see application size is almost from 80 to 300 kilobyte. And you can also see a task list.  This is a record application is running. Then go back to home application is currently running. And then yeah, setting application. So now home application is unloaded and the new setting up application is now running. And then go back to home and to check this DBFS commands, which is not demonstrated yesterday. So you can see a GPU idle ratio and as well as its current clock speed. Actually it's currently playback recording is started. So and go back to home. Actually clock is boosted now and now it's loading down to a lower clock. And then yeah, VM set. I think some people saw this VM set yesterday. So now playback is continuous. So you can see a blockout is happening and then go back to stop recording. So no block are you all happened. So next is a monkey-like tool. So monkey-like is a randomly generated input commands or input key sequences. So you can easily do a stress testing with this tool. So just maybe soon we'll start recording. Perhaps like option will be like key will be sent. Oh, okay, start recording because like keys are input. So with this tool, we did so many storage tests with this tool. For example, if we did the overnight test, maybe 40,000 events can be generated with this tool. And with this tool, we can find so many critical bags with this tool. So that's it. So any questions regarding my question? Yes, please. So your questions regarding GitHub? Okay, so actually our code is, we are using GitHub as private, private, private, not public, sorry. Actually, yeah. And I have two options. Actually our code is on GitHub. So in private repository, but we released one source code, so open OCD staff. This is now available on GitHub, Sony. This is a public staff, yeah, actually. It's okay? Yeah, please? Sorry. ADB? Ah, yeah. Your question is, so ADB is in open source? So sorry, we are now not in open source now and we are now considering how to merge into our upstream, yeah, this ADB. Yeah, yeah. Yes. Yes. Actually, NatX is not, this protocol is, how do you say? Maybe implement itself is not so related to NatX, but we will contribute to NatX GitHub repository, yeah. Okay. Any questions? Yeah, please? Yes. Yes. Yeah, yeah. Actually, we are, as I said at some point, right? Actually, we released three products and last year already released one product and this year we will release two or three products and also, but currently audio recorder and audio player is supported, but in the near future, we'd like to support more products rather than audio products. So for example, network connected devices and so on, yeah. Any questions? Ah, great. Yes? Oh no, it's very difficult to say, yeah, actually, but actually, on and off say, actually it depends on its, so CPU road time and it depends on, for example, MPC playback case is very, very CPU just send to our, it's compressed data to our DSP and actually DSP is very long in very low clock actually and DSP and also MP3 case, we can use a hardware decoder and also in recording system, we can use a hardware encoder. So in that case, CPU idle time is maybe around 95 or 97. So such a time is in idle. So idle means that, so we define it's idle clock, so maybe around three or six megahertz, so very, very low clock and but in some cases, for example, if we push some keys to change its application world to redraw its user interface, it's maybe more CPU road, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Any questions so far? Okay. So thank you, thank you for your time. Thank you.


This is Think Tech Hawaii, and this is the program, The State of the State of Hawaii. And today we have a really special guest who's on her way into the role of CEO at heart. And it's Lori Keena. And we have the joy of the season in being able to chat with her here today about what she's doing as she approaches it and how she's thinking about what she's going to do. So welcome, Lori. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you, CEO. Thank you, Lori. Yeah, well, good. I wanted to ask you to feel free to insert, you know, any, any comments you want to take or express priorities because I am going to ask the usual kinds of questions, which are first of all, of course, if the situation is in disarray. So, as we are all pretty well knowledgeable about or at least know about, and the audience knows about this.  And I'll help you get through that second part, the management. Okay, thank you. So it is a new challenge for me. I've been very clear, I don't have transportation experience, but I do have infrastructure experience coming from the Department of Environmental Services. Our wastewater consent decree program is well over $5 billion. So it's not a single project like rail is, but it's a multiple hundreds of projects that comprise the $5 billion, whether it's utility relocation or upgrading our sewer lines or the treatment plants. So I have construction and engineering experience, but transportation, I will need assistance, but I'm assuming part has within embedded within itself, transportation experts that I can rely heavily on, whether it's staff, city staff or consultants that are on board already. I hope to once I get in, roll up my sleeves, understand what are all of the issues. I know we are already way behind schedule and over budget. So I can't go back in time and fix that, but I hope to try and make things better going forward. ENV was successful in meeting all of our consent decree deadlines and staying on budget. So I'm hoping I can bring some of that perspective to heart. Well, given that you are going to be working with the board, have you related to them or are you in touch with them? Can you tell us how you feel about the board? Sure. So I met them just last month as I was interviewing for the position. So I don't know any of them prior. But maybe once or twice I've met with them just in our previous experience. Like for example, Joe Uno was actually a consultant of ours on a subconsultant of ours on one of our projects. I met him once. Of course, Kathy Sokugawa and John Nauchi, they are city directors. So of course I worked closely with them. But prior to that, I didn't really know any of the previous board members until I started interviewing with them. How does it feel? Does it look like you've got some relationship or your developing relationship? But do you have any click there? All of them have been extremely supportive. When I was interviewing with them, I made it so clear, I know what some of my shortcomings are, especially like I mentioned, the lack of transportation. I don't have a relationship with the FTA or state legislatures. So I'm going to rely heavily on them or others to help bridge that gap where I have shortcomings, but they have all been wonderful. And when you look at their backgrounds, they have a wealth of knowledge. So I expect to be tapping into their experiences and how they can help me when they did the vote. So they do need eight out of the nine votes for me to be selected. And the only one that did not vote for me was Kiko Bukowski. But when I met with him prior, he was completely honest with me about that. And he says, nothing personal, Laurie. I don't think now is the right time to change the CEO. And I said, you know, as long as you're blunt and honest with me, I'm the same way that's all I can ask. And he was true to his words. So I texted him, I said, you know, I understand your feelings, Kiko, and I completely respect it. So he was honest with me. So all I could ask. Well, thanks for sharing that ounce of honesty and being straightforward. And you're obviously stimulating some of that. That's really good. You know, I was thinking to go from easy that complicated, but when I started realizing in questioning you that there are no easy. And actually it came to my mind when that what about the federal side of things is there. And then I thought, well, that's, that's pretty black and white, right? We'll know because we have a changing administration. So are you funded now by the Trump administration and going to shift over? I mean, do you know. So a little bit I know about the federal side and our funding. There is a full funding grant agreement. And I kind of liken that to ENV. We had a federal consent decree that we are required to do X number of projects by a certain dates, and they all had deadlines. I liken it to that. And we are to adhere to that, which is the whole from Kapolei all the way to all of our shopping centers. So other reporters asked me, what is your intentions? Are you going to pause? I said, we have to get all the way to all of our shopping center, whether it's phased this because of the funding issues. Right now, my understanding is FDA has withheld monies because they wanted to see certain things from heart, certain progress and yeah, they just wanted us to meet certain milestones and we haven't hit it. So I understand why they are withholding the funds to protect their funds. But there was $250 million that was to laugh at the end of this year. And I understand that. Thank you to our congressional delegation of their especially shots. They were able to get that extended one more year to December of next year. Thankfully, those funds are still there. We haven't received it, but at least it's not lapsing. That's quite a bit of money. $250 million. Well, I, I lodged you for staying on top of that because it all slips into the US Treasury very good. But the also it's, it's encouraging to hear you say Alamoana, since that's been a huge concern and confusion. And most many people think it's only going to Middle Street, and then the Kakakos are up in their issues. And so Alamoana, you know, at the level of what would we all like to have. That's certainly the first step. But on that way, I mean, in addition to the money, then Lori, what about all of the land issues and the condemnations. And so how are you approaching those issues if you are yet. I don't know. So I'm not approaching it yet. I need to get in and fully understand where we add the utility relocation is what's, what's the critical point right now, right there in Dillingham and actually envy has a project right there so I'm fully aware of how tight that there is trying to squeeze everything in one space and also adhere to the city standards. So by having to adhere to the standards there might be additional rights of way takes which causes additional monies and time, but I won't fully understand the extent of that until I get in there and start acclimate myself and looking at all of the information and data available. So the RCEO. I'm having a block on his name. He pointed out that getting that corridor carved out is truly monumental, especially given the turns that have to be made because the technical issues which you have background and all of this but as you know, it's like you have way huge amounts of land to be able to move a train and a curve or make to make it make a turn that radius that correct radius exactly. Are you. How do you feel about that what how how was how does that look to you as with the engineering background and maybe I'm not understanding the question so you're talking about the the guideway. I understand the route is pretty set. Although the design has not been done for the guideway right now we're just working on the utility relocation so that at least the guideway post can come the columns can come through, but I don't have intentions of changing the alignment. And maybe tweak it here and there so that we can kind of accommodate the utilities underground. I hope I answered your question. Yeah, I'm thinking, well that's laid out and what it sounds like you're saying is that that route is is laid out. I've already been considered there are no more areas where you have to fight with the I rise builders I mean now. I guess Howard Hughes in the way you know that I guess that goes back to your other question about right away takes I think all along the corridor there's, there's, you know, property owners that we're going to have to deal with whether it's Howard Hughes the university, other private owners, but I don't know what they are right now, honestly. Well, I was going to go down to the city issues now and and ask about see here again. There's no easy question and no answer because all of that's just changing. And our new mayor is yet to be even sworn in. You know, the other the our current mayor called well, and those issues have you talked to him what has he been able to help you with with Mayor Caldwell or a mayor like Blange Artie. Well I was going to ask about both because like Biden he kind of has to get information. I was thinking you two are like straddling straddling correct correct so I'm very familiar with Mayor Caldwell and where he stands and what the issues were especially with the city departments. So my goal is to rebuild trust between heart and the city departments, I mean, I'm actually on one side of it, right with myself with water supply. DPP and DTS. And I do have good relationships with the city departments right now. So I want to ensure them that whatever trust they have with me now I wanted to continue with if I when I go to heart, and also establish the trust with the other utilities they can go or the communication utilities but Mayor Caldwell. He did share with me some of his concerns. First, how long it's taking to do the plans. Of course to get the permits and the funding and the delays and schedule so I do understand his concerns. When I did meet with Mary like Blange Artie and Mike form B. He was very supportive of me and the project. And they said however we can help on their, they're right there with me. So I truly appreciate that. Well that's you've covered, you know, the important players and he might form B is a supportive of rail as I understand it. And he would, he was on your side. And so he's going to be close connection for you. Absolutely. And he was actually in these shoes before so and as a board member. So I'm going to be tapping him quite a bit to understand the history and some of the issues that he encountered when he was in my shoes. And does Blange Artie Rick does Rick Blange Artie also feel that way because he's coming in now without that kind of a background. Correct. So, yes. Yeah. So he is fully supportive of the rail and going all the way to Alamo on a shopping center so I'm going to need the city support not just on a technical side whether it's the permitting, but it's also on the funding. You know, we have to work as partners. So I'm looking forward to working with them and truly, truly humbled by their support. Well that is very good news. I'm thinking now like I'm, my heart goes out to you but also to Blange Artie because these roles require you to be and certainly him. I mean, but he's got my for me right so do you see that that probably is key to success. Yes, absolutely. Absolutely. Well, hopefully things are and what about with the relationships with the state. So I like the legislatures. I don't have relationships with the state legislature so I'm going to need help with that and the board members are willing to help me with that. The State Department of Transportation, I do have good relationships with them so I'm hoping that will also help to move the project along. I interviewed Rick Blange Artie for already for mayor and one of the questions I had for him was how, how was he going to relate to the state because of what we're looking at. Again, the landscape is changing rapidly but there was the indication that there wasn't going to be much money for states right that was very very frightening. Right with the GT and the TAT. Of course the assumptions when the project first started or when the GT and TAT was affected. There was assumptions of how much the project would be receiving quarterly and annually and it has dropped significantly because of COVID and it does. You know, worry me quite a bit. That's one thing I made clear to the board members I've never had to deal with at EMG. We are self sufficient. All of our funding comes from the sewer rates fees that people pay. And we've always had enough monies to do our projects. We use our funds prudently. So this is this is a new bulging for me, honestly. That is very honest and you have a lot on your plate, but you have many, many resources as you said in this. Yes, utilize these, these, these colleagues who are so experienced and are willing to be in the in the world. That is incredible. Well, I just think that issues a bit under the fright continues because I'm sure that our money, our budget situation is not going to get better even with the feds coming around a little bit more. I think, you know, we're going to have more pain. Yes. So what are the kinds of things that you can do to moderate that what what kinds of skills do you bring to to working budgets down. And I scrutinized the budgets very carefully, even during construction. So whenever there's a change order all change orders needed to come through me at the director's level they need to justify. And we rarely went over normally when we budget up project we have a set dollar amount that the contract goes out for and we budget in 10% for contingencies. And we had 92 consent decree projects and only 14 of them went over that 10% contingency. The overall when you total all 92 projects. The total was $1.2 billion and even with those 14 going over the 10% the total of those 92 projects still came in under the 1.2 billion so I'm very familiar with with budgets and staying within budgets and I'm hoping to take that over to heart. Like I said I can't go back in time and get us back on on budget, but I'm hoping the estimates that are coming out at 10 or $11 billion. I hope that's, that's not the case but I won't know until I go in and actually look at the information myself. Well this seems to be one of the hotspots is not there and all the mods change orders and contractor issues what about the lawsuits have you do you see that as a challenge that I'm not familiar with the lawsuit so that's another issue I'm going to have to tackle when I get in there. Well, do you think people are willing to work. Are you bringing a fresh attractiveness to the, to the whole endeavor because have a sense there been a bit of dismay about working with heart because of the difficulties so how are you feeling about that. Yes, yes. I'm not sure how the existing heart staff feel I'm sure there's anxieties. Every time a new leader comes in and I do understand that there's been numerous. There's been just the last several years seven I believe I think I'm going to be number eight in a short amount of time and that does not bode well for any, any company when you have the top leadership changing there's no consistency. And so I'm sure there's anxiety and and I hope to call that when I get there, but I'm hoping I can bring everyone together and work as a team not just within heart but externally, there is, there is a lack of trust as I mentioned earlier between heart and the public. The city council, the city agencies, state agencies and other utilities and and I hope to try and work on that, that trust that, you know, so we can work together because heart can't do this by themselves. They need the help of everyone including the community. So that's the only way we can get it done. One topic, your predecessors never had to address is the issue of COVID-19. Correct. Yeah. So, what are you thinking about what's going to happen with COVID. Is that for some changes in the cars or is there anything you're right right that that's really a question and I actually haven't dealt. Put much thought into that for ENV. It did not really affect us too much we are essential workers and we can't stop, you know, treating the wastewater and we can't stop picking up the trash so we did have to adjust. When people work in crews together everyone has to wear masks try to social distance as much as possible when the traveling and trucks if we don't have spare trucks where we could have multiple trucks go to the same site. So that's what we're going to do. We're going to have to put the rails down and let the fresh air come through. So there are some adjustments that need to be made, but as far as within rail, I believe heart has made adjustments. I thought I saw a list of how they have addressed it, whether it's in the office and in their designs, but I don't know. I don't know until I get in there. Well, you know, and it also depends on how the vaccine is going to work.  To modify anything structure of the actual rail cars. Oh, absolutely. Absolutely. And for for heart. COVID has a direct impact on the income. As I mentioned earlier the GT and the TAT. It's shut down businesses shut down tourism so that's the one of the major income sources for heart so that has a devastating impact on us. So I didn't mean to raise your anxiety. Thank you, Stephanie. I signed the contract. It's certainly wonderful to hear you speak of these things and to be so committed to the kinds of relationships that are needed and certainly the trust and to bring the project back into the mainstream and the people's concern of that it will be a resource for our community. I mean, in other cities. I mean, has had no benefit of this yet. I see tremendously frustrating point because we all know how wonderful it is to get on those places that we will be doing that too. But it takes someone like with your talents to bring in all of this background experience and all of your skills and it's a very impressive portfolio that you have to offer. I hope so. I hope so. I have to say I was not a real supporter. When I served under Peter Carlisle in one cabinet meeting he said, you know, we are the stewards of the city. We have to be champions for heart. I mean for real and and really support it and I remember raising my hand said, Why should I support real I live on the winter side. I will never, never ride on that train. And his response made me feel this small. He says, Laurie, you're on the winter side. You have the Polly Highway, you have leaky leaky. You have Cal Highway and you have H3 for fairly funded highways that you get to take advantage of whenever you need to. I said, Oh, quite well taken and then under Kirk Caldwell, my office is in Kapolei. And so of course pre COVID, that traffic that I see the people, the leeward side, what they have to deal with daily is heartbreaking. When I'm coming into work 630 in the morning that traffic is way into Makakilo, and it's a parking lot. And the same thing when I'm leaving to come home. Now they're fighting that traffic to come back home that quality of life. It's just, it's, it's, it's saddening. I know there's parents in there with young kids 430 in the morning they're sleeping in the cars because they have to try and beat the traffic. It's not a way to live. So, witnessing that firsthand, I am a big real supporter of we need it. Yes, yes. And for a long time and I remember decades ago that Honolulu was described as a perfect city for rail, like, because it's because it's kind of rectangular and flat. I mean, this is years ago and I often thought when I've been in other cities that are that have put in these metros that they weren't even as cut, you know, they weren't even as good a fit as here. Right. I think it's just worldwide known as very annoying. Well, I really appreciate your time and sharing Laurie and certainly wish you very well as you make this transit. And then sleep and, and then and then there's just so many things we're all going to be working to get used to new new circumstances so you get one more as CEO. I love the rail project. Thank you very much. Thank you. Thank you very much. Again, later to see how things are. Thank you. I appreciate that. Wonderful. Good luck, Laurie. Thank you. Thank you. Take care. Okay, bye bye. I'm Mahalo. Mahalo. Happy New Year. Happy New Year. So this has been the think tech Hawaii programs. And this is the show, the state of the state of Hawaii and it comes on Mondays every two weeks and I look forward to seeing you there thank you for your attention and thank you so much for your aloha.


Segal Theatre Center, our little center in the middle of Manhattan in midtown where every second store is closed, restaurants are closed, businesses are out of their spaces and we still do not know what will happen, how the city will digest everything. Announcements of openings have been done in July 4th. People think maybe September 15th shows will be back up but we are skeptical and we are waiting, we are seeing but there are great signs that perhaps we are turning a corner and of course we now really think what is it important at the moment, what does it mean to be a theater artist during the time of corona, for the time after corona, what has happened, what has changed, what will change, what should change and artists have been always part of change we need. Artists have been inside of the fight for freedom and democracy on the right side, they have anticipated the future and they helped us going through different stages and certainly this is a new world, a new stage we are entering in and art has something to say but not now, it doesn't have anything to say, we all think and from the conversations we had with over 150 artists from over 60 countries in the world, we had one of the most insightful I think comments that helped us, helped me and our listeners to to deal and think and to come to terms and to find meaning in this. Today is a special day for us, we have a great artist with us, one of the world's great theater artists in the terms of chess, he's a grandmaster of the game who does his very own style, his very own work in film and in theater. Kirill Serebrennikov is with us, Kirill thank you, thank you for joining us. It was such amazing words about me but look I'm guy who just works and looking my own way in theater and arts in general and it's not about me, please don't put me on the line. Okay, okay. Kirill where are you right now? I'm in Moscow, I'm preparing the new film and Moscow is opened by the way, a lot of people working in theater are open for 50% of the audience so but it's much better than nothing I understand how the whole world is in jealousy about what's happening in Moscow I understand but look it's really hard because we know what happened in comparison with the previous period when everything was locked, closed and there was no way to work at all for artists for theater people in Moscow it was a nightmare and the moment when the figures went down it was a very very very a lot of happiness about this and now it's 50% of the audience but we working and where I just yesterday had rehearsals of the production we didn't play for almost two years because of corona and because of different situations of pregnancy of the actresses so we refreshed the old production called Kafka it's about the Kafka life and today it's like opening right now in the moment we're talking with you in theater in Google Center they are starting to play first performance in zero because we have three and it's very very good because audience of the people in Moscow are really tired of lockdown and they're very they're missing theater and it's quite understandable and clear and very very easy to to feel this from the stage because people are so happy to be in touch with the actors with the performers and it's very special feeling really amazing it's really good it's it must be evening right is that so it's open it's what time is it in Moscow it's seven o'clock and the performance is like four hours and we we normally start eight o'clock but today we stayed a little bit earlier to not to finish a late at night so I hope the seat will talk didn't take you away from watching normally I guess it's normally I can't help them now because they they're like in this open space they they're playing and we'll see the result we'll see the uploads in the end and we understand how it how it works but anyway it was kind of a successful moment for for our theater when the the sold out was for four minutes it was kind of first time in our life when first minutes online selling the tickets and it was sold out for for four minutes for it's a question do we need a theater you know after corona I guess of course it's the best answer of course people it's it's so easy to feel here that people are are so tight about fitting at home and being with each other or close to inside yourself you know eyes to your depth and to your darkness and for people to visit theater to go to exhibitions now it's kind of a word or happiness and it's it's it's it's really good fantastic it's really good also quite symbolic that a Kafka ask work is is very Russian author by the way I hope it's very American as well Kafka by the way Kafka wrote novel called America yeah being never being in America yeah it was his imagination it was his imagination and he created his own America and described the street the place the the characters but he've never been in America in his life and what he described in his novels it's very very close to what we have in Russia and probably what we have in Europe now so it's he's like a prophet and we we made this I stage the production about the prophet of who told a lot of a lot of about 21st century from from from 20th century his vision about or the vision of future is really dark but sometimes it looks like what we have today yeah yeah life is stranger than fiction what we went through was unimaginable and for us you know at least in the west who didn't grow up with uncertainty I think I think of course Russia went through extreme changes too and perhaps has some experiences to deal with such transformations and for all our listeners who don't know nothing about career and I have to admit I also never saw a production in person it never came here to the US I'm living here for such a long time so it's a something that's missing and as we said earlier there's a little question to interrupt you but I worked in American Harvard for three years in drama school in the Slavsky kind of program and I worked with American students with American Young Actors and it was amazing experience and I loved it a lot by the way so with Robert Woodruff still at the time when Robert Woodruff was at the ART or yeah I think it was his time it was it was time we saw each other and it was kind of a special time for ART but Harvard was a very nice place and summer in Harvard summer in Boston is very good for me as well yeah and I think TDM the fever drama and media initiative is really alive and interesting it's a very intellectual origin of America and the very special people very smart very clever very kind of invoked in culture in cultural life so it was it was it was interesting yeah so just to give for all those who weren't lucky enough to be your student in Harvard Carol is he's been working as a stage director at the roster on Don Theodore since 1994 in the last millennium even he looks so young and he's the author and director of numerous production at the great Moscow Arts Theater the Pushkin Theater so Remnick's Theater the theater of Oleg Tabakoff Tabakoff who I once met also a helicon opera the National Theater of Latvia and he has staged next to on his place his stage operas series work in opera and ballet and has a vast experience in film and television perhaps one of the few that really moves between film television theater was kind of east and is informing his work I'm out of it which for sure in the time of corona helped him to to find also a new ways he's a one of the artistic directors of the festival school territory and I would like to know more about this and he is the founder and artistic director of the project platform from 2011 till 14 and he's the founder and artistic director of the Google Center since 2012 a most significant place in Russian theater history you have to change the name it is from all what we know the most was was the most alive place the most significant place of contemporary theater of contemporary means of hybrid forms new forms in the tradition of modernity in the tradition of post-modernity but it is a contemporary work in the best sense and so Kirill and the time of corona what happened in the last year what did you do oh it's always difficult to to have a talk in terms of past but look what I what I did I finished the film we managed to shoot before the global lockdown it called Petrov's flu based on contemporary Russian prose and it will be released I hope in summer this year and I finished operas I I made I made I prepared a pacifal for Vienna-Stadt's opera it's a very very big production with the global stars and others and I I finished what does I you know it's it's good question what I did last year but I did a lot but I probably forgot about to mention something I I made I made by the way I think it was last year I finished the production in google center called the the hangman based on Martin McDonough latest play he worked he he wrote for London National Theatre and he allowed me to rewrite it for for Russia because we have special kind of relationship with with this topic I mean it's about people who kill other people I mean hangman and person who kills the prisoners let's say or who committed into to being killed in nowadays in Russia the death kind of according to a decision of the jury is is banned is we have the moratorium but it it existed till 1989 or 80 or 1986 probably and so we we we I made the McDonough story about the hangman in UK into Russian realities so it was completely rewritten and it's big production in in in Moscow what else what else what I did I did I did a lot I I wrote few scripts and we are preparing the new by the way it will be new production based on uh Limonov's novel Limonov is famous Russian author already dead but he his first novel in in America was That's Me Eddie his famous Russian punk novel let's say very crazy crazy character crazy novel and probably it will be kind of adaptation for for for the film based on on on this literature what happened a lot to me I forgot about something but I remember I'll tell you how did you feel in the time were you in your apartment how was it for you emotionally as an artist I had I had a rehearsal of lockdown of my personal lockdown a few years before and now in in in global lockdown I was prepared so I I I know how to behave and what to do I I even made kind of fewer devices of of Kirill Serebrennikov for the people for the current situation with lockdown what to do how to behave or how to to use time in the best way it was like like 10 points to read a lot to learn something to to to new foreign language for instance to to watch films anyway you never never seen before never watched before to practice to to to to practice some physical activities I mean yoga and something else and some something else to to look into yourself very precisely and deeply and make a poem use this pose for for understanding what'll what are you gonna do in in the nearest future because it's a kind of point for changing the life and for changing everything it's not bad by the way to so the the the the advice is we are about how to find or to look for the best from this terrible tragic situation not to say not to say okay I'm well well we're destroyed lay down and die no let's find something good you know sometimes this stops of the poses are are very helpful for for the life it's a time for a rare arrangement of our thoughts of refreshment of our kind of inside structure to thinking about the way we're gonna leave or gonna walk in the future so it's it's not bad to have a pause in general I mean could you share I mean not everybody knows you said you had your own corona confinement before anyway yeah yeah it was like it was house arrest blah blah blah the people can find everything about what happened with me before but anyway corona it's it's a it's a global kind of turn turn and I feel that I actually feel that it's our we have now we have kind of we're sharing our experience and it's really good because look we were so separated we were so far from each other I mean theater people or artistic people we're doing our things we were in different places of the globe but now we have too much things in common we have our common experience and it all makes us closer to each other and the problems of each other are more understandable now for for for the others so it's not bad by the way we're much closer now to to to each other than before do you feel there's a change and we are thinking about what's going to happen to New York what will we see we love this city it's a great city and it will come back yeah it's amazing city it's amazing place and it's so good for artistic spirit because it's a spirit of freedom in each corner in each second of it it's true how is Moscow how is that in that year or did it it did something change what do you see for your city Moscow now is very good by the way I mean in terms of kind of good city a lot of people theater are opened museums are open and of course there's there's no freedom of spirit the spirit of freedom sorry but for I'm not sure that a lot of people are searching for for this spirit sometimes for the people are more important the the feeling of comfort and being safe let's say and it's quite opposite to to what we're looking for like artists you know we artists always are searching for something different from the other people we're always minority and for the people like to prefer to be in safe situation we are putting ourselves into crazy things trying to play crazy tragedies or comedies something very extreme something very bloody and blah blah blah so we all like artists looking for abnormal things and here people are looking for normal safe quiet blah blah blah situation of course with a special with in conditions of corona and with special rules and regulations and so on and so on as I understood what you asked me absolutely yeah yeah that's uh that is you know interesting to hear I mean we're gonna have what what what to be what to be with me how to leave and what to do in New York after you'll see you'll do you'll be so happy when everything will be open the people will hug each other they will go to the museum so they will go to the theaters I'm I'm sure that that the live will be more even more joyful the people I hope the vaccine the vaccine will help to to to feel safe in Moscow a lot of people are um we are sick by the way I've been sick as well you had corona yeah yeah I had corona it was not really easy because I had the problem with the lungs like 40 percent of it was um in under corona under virus under corona but uh we managed to to overcome it and a lot of people had no symptoms uh in general so as far as I understand without uh natural um vaccination of of the population there is no way to to go ahead uh vaccine I mean the the new kinds of vaccine of course will help and will make it faster but uh in general we we are uh in front of the new uh reality and the reality is that next time next moment it will be other viruses other problems other other things and of course it seems to me that it's kind of rehearsal of new new era of being of mankind not your existence uh don't let let's not to use uh terms bad or worse or good or it's it's like this let's take it let's let's accept it and let's think how to overcome how to to build the new life the new art the new theater the new communication with the people and uh that's it Russia is such a great country for theater one of you know the world powers in a way over centuries like you know theater in Japan Germany France England you know it's one of the great the also the audience that loves theater do you think what do you think theater is should be doing now or is doing something changing uh is your role changing that's will audience expect different things artists what does what will theater do my conception or my feeling about this is that theater starts to be important when when the people get used to go to the theater so it's kind of it comes from childhood when people are taking a small kids are taken to the theater and get used to spend their evening time watching something from the stage it gives kind of theater vaccine for the whole life or um vaccine let's say or virus theater virus for the whole life and Moscow it's not about the whole Russia Moscow St. Petersburg some other big cities there are of course theater centers there are a lot of theater there are a lot of theater life but it's not about the whole Russia in Russia there are places where people are not get are not about theater into theater at all there are more about movies because the only acceptable or reachable place it's cinematographer I mean cinema theater and um uh Russia is really huge but the main theater life exists exists in in in in Moscow and and few big cities um I've I I I I started to dream about theater uh since my like 15 years old in Rostov in south of Russia when I've I I actually it was not because I visited the local theater it was because I saw Peter Brooks production called Carmen Carmen yeah I saw yeah you saw it and I saw it by video on on video it was not live production but I was so was shocked by smell of freedom by artistic freedom by something unbelievable in acting in in in in this musical opera production that I I felt something like obsession about it and I of course wanted to repeat that I saw a Taganka famous Russian theater from Soviet Union which was a kind of point of freedom and of contemporary of modern theater it was Taganka theater this is Stanislavsky theater it was all always classical theater theater of traditions and Taganka it was mod about modernity about experimental things very artistic very social orientated and and by and so on and so I I saw few Taganka performances and it was kind of I was infected and then I understood that theater is a great great media media and a great possibility for people to be together to feel the unity let's say or kind of closing how to how to feel together being together and I I just wanted to repeat it to repeat and to find my own way and to to to to to work in theater I have I have no special education by the way I I I'm a physician I'm physics sorry I'm not physician physician doctor I'm I'm scientist I finished university as a scientist I have special degree in physics and I but I started theater as in amateur way in university and then I it turned kind of moved into professional and then I moved to Moscow and started to work in professional theaters well first in center of contemporary drama and directorship it's it was tiny tiny theater in Moscow but he worked with contemporary drama the only place about modern theater in the beginning of the 21st century in Moscow and then we the people who started the theater became kind of headliners of of of theater in theater making and a lot of actors and director from the center started to work and collaborate with a big classical traditional repair to our theater in Moscow in in Russia in general as in Germany as in France we have prepared to our theater it means that every day we have new productions in the list of in in the in the repertoire let's say and we have permanent troops we have we play a lot of productions per month and for instance in google center today we have one performance on the big stage and another performance on this chamber stage so we and that's it almost every day we have the same so a lot of theater a lot of people watching it a lot of actors a lot of work for actors and when I worked in the US the main sorrow was I felt in the very end of our program because I understood that all these amazing actors all these amazing guy amazing young professionals they're so crazy about real theater they're they're so crazy about about playing in the theater every day but they have no chance because America is more about cinema and it's more about Broadway it's more about commercial theater and there were no almost the the professional theaters for artistic work and it was very pity and it was really pity it was really pity because the actors were incredible some of them you know it's true and we just had Chris Myers a New York actor was a stage actor but also is in Spike Lee films or others he says even if he is in one of the good great theaters like the public theater New York theater workshop it's after taxes and everything it's like 300 dollars a week or 400 so I can't and I am even working which is hard to get the job but even if I work I won't even be able to pay my rent and it's stunning and they're all the complexities economy it's all about money I understand but you know in Russia theater is a mainly mainly supported by the government in Europe as well in Germany in Germany in front the the causes supporting is is really huge yeah in Russia Russia is not such a reach but in Siberia as you say people in their big you know theater communities and outreach there and but my question Kirill for the Google I don't know how deeply you are involved after all these shake-ups and and when you had to leave or were forced to leave is the Google doing something different let's say it goes back to 80 percent or 90 or 100 half a year will the Google go on as it was before say we already were doing what we wanted to do or do you think this time brought a visible change something in the experience and the producer will be different what is good good is that we uh that that the actors are really hungry about because they had a lack of everything and they're immediately were involved into into the work it was very good that so we have three or four productions in work I mean new productions sec what what is bad bad that we built a lot of international communications and for instance we made a production called the Cameroon based on on bocaccio bocaccio's novel it was called production with the Deutsche Theater in berlin and and google center Moscow we made this production and played it in in berlin it was the last day before lockdown it was a symbolic offense of course because the Cameroon is connected with a global disaster of 17th century but anyway we played the last production and global lockdown started we they close everything and now we are for almost a year and a half we are waiting for the possibility to play it in Moscow and now the communications and the relationship between country are so bad and we have no we have diplomatic and other problems with the the the other countries and all borders are closed so the bad is that the internet theater is international thing I believe that I wanted I worked a lot and all this territory festival and other festivals you mentioned and platform of project it was a kind of it was especially it was the tools there were the tools for communication for putting people together to to make international projects and so on and so on to make Russia part of the international life of the international theater to make the global theater part of russian theater and it was a huge job for a lot of years and of course what we have today the pandemic destroyed almost everything and it's like mandala I'm good it's so for me it's quite understandable and clear so you built mandala then you destroy mandala and you built it again so now from the moment you you will be all released from lockdown we're gonna start to work on our collaborations and our kind of connection from zero and but we need to start to to work on it again and again and trying to to find the level at least the level it was which was before the pandemic time yeah it's interesting this what often in the talk also here comes up that America now also is very worried already there was not a big global outreach to great places like bam and asia society for a while lincoln center festival which unfortunately closed for no good reasons and the theater is closed look it's disaster yeah it's terrible they close the theater so they they will not I am afraid they will not collect the orchestra again because they were from different countries they came to New York they rent the apartment relief and blah blah blah but now what to do it's it's a turn they did not support the artist as they should but the idea and America's worried you know what if even if America everybody's vaccinated but people from Latin America in the world I mean yeah they can't come in is it going to be more more isolated perhaps as it as it was before so I think your your your concerns this is very it is a very very real my question I don't know where you were let's say I don't have the world world is right the collapse of the civil union or the opening of the wall is too much over and always says it's the opening of the wall not the fall we fought for this there was a movement and he's right but what happened in that moment in in russian stages I think I remember Sebastian Kaiser saying theaters were closed at the time some of them were even almost like flea markets of people who you know would exchange goods and then it opening was that similar to now that kind of trends the change theater went through oh look I'm I'm not a prophet in this I know that Russia is not really such a rich as America and we we are not able to close business and to close everything for such a long term as you did so there is no way that's why they opened everything some moment and pretend that nothing happened with the people but at the same moment the level of immunization and vaccination was really high and they used I hear I mean I mean in Russia they used sputnik and other vaccine for getting people immune but it was it was much earlier than in Europe and then in the US so we are like few months is working and it's it's it's it's it's happiness of course what to do have no idea have no idea the you mean you mean what to do how to how to how to start everything from zero the experience you had if I understood right you know after that 89 90 that cup theaters work also were they closed did they reopen did it change the system was was it something similar as well but look we were working even under lockdown we were preparing the performance everybody was working yeah so we are we have something in the pocket in the pocket and nobody works basically theaters closed so nobody pays even playwrights who got commissioned theaters called them I've said please give us the commission back I mean outrageous things so yeah all the time in from your apartment how did you do are you through zoom or how did you work uh I worked via zoom with uh Vienna Stadtsoper but the Vienna Stadtsoper in Vienna was very hard lockdown by the way but the theater worked each day they started with the corona tests it was like and you can imagine 500 people working it's orchestra choir singers and technicians it's like almost 500 people every day it's it was a line of of people to the rooms where they check what kind of express bits are or express tests for corona and so after this line after this corona testing we start to rehearse and rehearse the whole day because there were no performances and they made the production now it's available on our tech concert for the empty audience for the cameras and we we released it and I thought oh it's not bad by the way we wasted we we spent six weeks for preparing the huge production with four hours of music Wagner it's really hard but now it's available for the globe it's like you know opera Netflix it's it's let's look like this probably it's kind of future way out for for for the other people to prepare theater version of theater for for the streaming for the broadcasting anyway it will give the work for the actors for the shower pillars for the dancers for the singers for for a lot of people involved in in making theater but of course I think we'll replace a live theater nothing and in Moscow now when people can attend the theater and look at the stage and look at the actors playing in a live way sharing energy sharing emotions with each other it's it's it's kind of happiness and to all people you know missing it a lot but still this opera production that Wagner from you know will have a longer life and it will be survived very much better yeah 30 years but tell me so you were where we are talking now you were sitting in front of your computer and you directed the opera which was a record I was sitting in front of computer for 12 hours a day 12 hours a day and it was done for no audience but it will live on film how was that experience what did you learn night man I don't want to repeat it again but anyway it's it was a nightmare you say it was but it's a way out 12 hours yeah incredible it's what to do if there is no other options we had Toshiki Okada a Japanese director a great one and playwright he said what he discovered he said all of a sudden me as director had the same space on the screen as the actor he said I wasn't used to that I had did you find something different something I had surprised you slight slightly different experience I had eye to eye link with each singer so I had a lot of personal rehearsals oh it's really good but I have physically I have my friend and co-author and my choreographer Evgeny Kulagin who but who've been in Vienna physically and why I didn't start from the main thing I didn't tell the main secret it's possible for musical theater because musical theater and all physical actions on stage are connected with the score with the notes and in before for a long long time I'm preparing I'm writing down each gesture each mise-en-scene each I don't know turns of the body and put it down in in in the score and of course to having this score the the singers and the actors in other plays on the globe can do what I what I want in drama I am not sure it's possible to to make the sorry sorry people because I didn't tell the main thing that it's acceptable for music theater mainly for drama I'm not sure that it's really works at least yeah how interesting so like lava notation next to the instruments and the voice you have a score for the gestures I have pictures I have schemes I have kind of sketches for everything and it's connected with the you know with the notes with the score that's easy for for everyone to to understand how to how to work and plus I to I link I can explain what I want and what how what feelings and what emotions the actor needs to express and blah blah blah incredible and unthinkable only two years ago to do something approach was 500 people who get tested every day you're for 12 hours on zoom it will be done with no audience but filmed perfectly and will be a record Carol if I may ask you you said you you said it physics you're trying to be a scientist for whatever reason but then you were talking to this why do you make art why do you think even in the time we have now you said you know we needed what why is it important why what moves you why do you do this incredible effort like you said just know what's the effort was what is it all about it's easy to explain because I always felt that in art in theater I can get something untouchable something invisible not material as scientists I understand that a lot of very special worlds exist everywhere around us we we can't touch them we can't approach them we they can be fixed only with special technique special kind of very complicated measurements but in theater it's the same theater it's a place where invisible becomes visible and all these invisible things all these thoughts ideas very special feelings energies and and blah blah blah and other other it's it's it's a point it's a plot it's a kind of not material material for for making for theater makers and that's of great it it was of great interest for me being far away away from material closer to not reachable such easy as this table or wall or door waiting and looking for invisible world let's say and is your is your work almost always connect us to the to literature is that you have a strong look I I always I am from the generation as you are I guess Frank we are more connected with literature but I do it all possible to connect with visuality because visual theater is what I adore and what I love a lot and try to do something more in visual way less words less literature less phrases less speaking more body more dance more music more international form forms of communication and of theater understandable for for a lot of people I think it's very important for for for new era of post-corona times to create that that hybrid from what you have done for for a long time actually um yeah because literature is look look it was no more that theater was quite provincial because it's it was more local but probably now after corona we all need to make it to share the to share it to to share theater with each other so to get it international to get it understandable for for everyone I think it's it's kind of mission otherwise we'll lose theater at the human activity yeah yeah that's that's quite a profound statement that I like I absolutely happy when I got your invitation because for me it's really important to to get people and to have a talks to to share our thoughts to share our ideas how to how to avoid how to work how to for instance now we are working on the performance for Hamburg theater Taliya theater it's famous very famous place on the map on the theater map of the Europe and it'll be collaboration with actor with Russian actors and German actors so we will play bilingual why not and it will be on a vinyan festival in french famous french festival so it's I tried to to uh kind of get rid of of this language ghetto and problems with languages I'm sure that it's completely possible and English UK actors US actors Russian actors German actors they can do something in together and make international uh global theater understandable for the audience from different places from different countries yeah I mean that's that is important what you said that this time of talk corona remind us that it has to be accessible that we do it for the people that there's a big need and we have to adjust perhaps you know a break that he wrote for the children of technological age we have now children of digital age um as I say you know so how we how do we connect to that and one way is how you do one question a lot of what comes up in talks here within the US but also globally is the idea of community that people say um on one hand it has to be told about we also learned or we also feel we need to be more pay more attention to our local community the surroundings the neighborhood how is it in google theater where are you situated is that is there something that you feel that is changing in that sense uh look google is a very special place it's really far from um theater district it's a little bit aside but uh it's very popular we have we have we have total sold out because it's kind of place for young generation because it from the very beginning I decided to make um something some project uh attractive for for for the people who probably never been in theater before because it's very important to form the habits to attend theater and you know how it works when people come to the theater and see some crap or shit or whatever they say so sorry I understand that it's culture but it's culture of our parents and they leave uh and go to the cinema for instance or to to the games or to watch I don't know whatever to the to the clubs I like it all all I mentioned I love I love a lot but but theater now needs to something to make um to to to to attract the new generation and we try aesthetically um with the with the with the material we stay we we prepare for staging with the master classes with special talks before the each production for each product we have our playwright who talking with the audience explaining the productions explaining for each show before each show each show big look why people of 17th of 20 years old uh have no the the Shakespeare or the Shakespeare words world or Ostrowski or Tchaikov or they it's not their job to know the authors and to know the literature we need to explain them we need to involve them into the into it and then they go and they watch the contemporary production with the people of the same ages on the stage with the same ideas with the same problems with the something similar to them and then they say wow it's my theater it's a place I love I we created the theater opened the whole day so it's a center it's not a theater of when the doors are opened in the evening and that's it we were open the whole day we have gallery inside what happens in the day they're coming to have a coffee they they're coming to watch exhibitions because we have we we have few kind of galleries small galleries inside they were 10 o'clock or nine o'clock you can go there for coffee of course they they have a place for kind of co-working they sitting sharing things or doing or just working in computer taking one cup of tea or coffee and nothing else so just take this place for for your needs and for uh we have we have no special artistic entrance we have only one entrance for the all people we have no artistic uh canteen we have the same canteen for everyone and after performance the actors go in the foyer they they kind of join the people who watched the show and they're sitting uh uh in the coffee eating or singing or drinking or whatever so it's it's a kind of open space it says new new type of of the theater probably but i i i i know that it works and i understand that it it's it's commercial kind of financially successful because it's it's for new people for it's a new for new generation it's aesthetically close to them topically and and and other points that it's a great great artistic and community practice it would be like the public theater here in new york would be open at nine or ten very important not to forget that theater in general is not about our about expressing what we feel inside i mean artists but about theater is about communicating it's about communication about joining and putting people people together nothing else yeah that's that is that is remarkable and something we especially here in the u.s. we have to to think about them how to make it a place of a community open the space for coffee there's a great hotel called the ace hotel have a library we have open library each person can take uh and share the books so free they can take the book and take it away if if they need or some people just brings their books they don't need at home and put it on the shelves and we have such sharing sharing things sharing books for instance it's a idea for we have a boxes for for the homeless people and people who have something they can share they put their cloths into these boxes and we then after afterwards we give it to to the special funds who pass it to to the homeless people for instance so theater is also is a social center community center is a that communicates clearly what it is gallery gallery it's gallery contemporary artists should be part of contemporary theater it's very important yeah so we're becoming so closer but still i have some questions who who formed you what artists did you look up to whether it's writers or filmmakers or writers filmmakers old generation of young actors dancers and you see some names for us who we don't know i mean for sure it's very little american because so little travels over there look we have american in our troupe look yeah american called uh uh odin byron very good actor amazing guy uh big friend of all four of us and he became a star movie star in russia and now he works as an actor as principal actor in our theater we have chinese girl so i i understood that russia is very international and i always was i didn't like the kind of let's say how to i need to find the right words uh the the russian theater was was really very white and very clean clean in in in this thing because for russians for a long time was quite strange that in check of place will will participate some i don't know black people or uh ancient people it was strange but america gave me a huge kind of kick and i changed my vision because in in my program i had amazing black guys who played uh in astrovsky and bulgakov plays and it was very good and i thought why not why shouldn't we work with the old races with all people who live in russia let's say and we have chinese actors very good chinese actors we have guys from eastern part of russia we have so we we don't pay any attention now and it's multiracial troop and it's for me it's very very very important yeah that's that's remarkable i think also germany can run from that and it's true i think america does have an awareness of you know the significance and importance you know of a way it's kind of diversity artistic diversity racial diversity it's very important i i'm for it and i'm fighting for it and for me it's probably our theater is one of the first in russia who made steps ahead into into this direction a bit you know like the gorky in the old days helped that ember lindem and they had this also kind of international because and also they said we got every play we do has turkish subtitles it would be like in new york you say well every play has spanish subtitles because not everybody speaks english perfectly it can understand i don't understand often every sentence you know what what they say on stage but again to go back artists like is it to say is it the kavka is it brecht is it takovsky what what formed you what made you who you are also you're you're political i know you fought for lgbt rights and to say i'm also going to organize what are your who who are your um good to set uh uh elected affinities you know your your your your selected family i think that uh i'm a child of perestroika because perestroika was a very special period when uh soviet union was destroyed and new russian new kind of idea of russia appeared yeah it was a very little very tiny gap between and the generation who came into this period gap uh was the generation was full of new feelings new hopes and freedom freedom total freedom even a little bit with a uh smile of anarchy a little bit but i think for artists it was of high importance of high value so the the atmosphere of perestroika yeah perestroika gave us a feeling that everything is possible soviet union was a place where everything was impossible and suddenly everything changed completely and we understood that okay everything is possible and this is a feeling and understanding of possibility of impossible things is very good for for enlarging the the uh soul of the artists yeah that is good and let's hope that this time of corona especially here in the us we just hit so many people so hard the numbers of unemployment people out of business no health insurance is um it's it's it's stunning but there is also hopefully something in there of a new beginning yesterday lucia was with us from the invisible dark and performing arts center he said i came with no money from france it was the financial crisis of 2008 where layman brothers got a bankrupt and there was a building it was empty i called the number because uh let's see if i can rent it for free and then he made a deal with the owner and traded arts residency now it's one of the artistic spaces so i hope something hopefully will also um come out of um of this at this moment of change we don't know yet it's growing somewhere um as your work did in that time of perestroika so um really um thank you it's a last thing you know they're young artists also listening young directors or young also people who we want to encourage the curators producers festival founders what you have done what would what do you say to them what is important what do they have to focus what i should keep in mind i don't want to be guru i don't want to be some wise i need i need a lot of advice for me as well i know uh i have a lot of questions i have much more questions than than answers so guys there are no rules or regulations or kind of points in in in uh in what to do where to go how to act it's we have the same experience we have the same new experience and uh we need to share it we need to where we're now we are all on the zero level we start from zero we're on the same boat we just need to help each other there is no all all experience we i have or we had from the previous life doesn't work anymore it's shit it's probably it's wrong weight we need to get rid of it and to start to work from the very beginning uh getting the white things whites and uh important things from chekov from dostoevsky from drizer from uh literature from uh philosopher artists contemporary artists uh and old-fashioned artists and other artists uh but it's time to to to collect the new identity of the artist in general uh so i have no advices i have no ideas i need to to do this to start from the from the very beginning with you let's do let's let's walk together yeah that's uh that's a that's a big statement it's a very serious one and they are twice is there is no twice we have to start the mandala new as you said it's exactly the previous one is destroyed so let's start the new one yeah and so it's an equal equal footing for everyone no matter of age or experience and so let's do things and uh and there is a possibility and there's perhaps this idea of that parestroika that atmosphere you know um that that was in the air that is so important and let's hope we will catch some of it um kareel really really thank you um thank you thank you for mentioning my talk and it's our first time and i hope not the last one yeah and for normally i'm sure you would be in the google theater in the seat so it was very nice of you to to to give up your time and say it's important and and we start the global dialogue is important and we need to listen to what you also said we have an interest we listen to each other we need to we are in this together give their solutions they are global ones they are no longer national thank you so much guys bye bye thank you and then next week we're going to have abhishek majumba anaruparoy from india the situation is devastating it's most probably the darkest spot in the world um and um and uh and anaruparoy her family has corona she got corona so we're going to hear um what is happening there if it all works out on thursday we have the theater develop the festival of the world uh producers um with us stefan schmidke perhaps olapkorek but for schulbertina mills who is uh working within the german government also supporting the arts we're going to get an update on what's happening there since um the festivals are provided for artists are invited but germany has a complete lockdown nothing can happens and the festival program has been announced in online and on books but without dates without times nobody really knows what will happen so we get a little update from there and then on friday we join our great student initiative the booth award honoring diana taylor from nyu for her life's work and the difference she has made thank you all for joining thanks hal realm for hosting us again it was an important update to get from russia from mosco and um it was a a great honor to have carol with us and what he said is meaningful it is important and significant and something we all can can learn from so thank you and have a great uh weekend and i hope you will join us next week again thanks to hal realm for hosting us all my best