Hey everybody, today we're debating whether or not Islam is true and we are starting right now. With Perfect Awa's opening statement, thanks so much for being with us. Perfect Awa the Floor is all yours. Hello, and thank you very much James and Aaron for this opportunity. It is almost impossible for some people to accept any proof about existence of God. Not even miracles are sufficient for them. On chapter 54 verse 2, yet whenever they see a sign, they turn away saying same old magic. But for some people, the minimum evidence is enough to believe. At the age of 25, I started to think about God's existence because I had little knowledge within few days I decided that God doesn't exist. Not because there were no evidences, but because I didn't have the right knowledge to see them. Some years later, I learned that definitely there is an end to this universe and the life we know will end. I knew that Abrahamic religions believed that one day the world will end. But I learned that pagans believe in reincarnation which goes on forever, despite according science ever doesn't exist. Probably this woke me up that if all religions are man-made, then they all should be the same. But Abrahamic religions are totally different. I learned that pagans from Mayans to ancient Greeks and Egyptians and other polytheists religions have no any connections and the only similarities they have is that they have hundreds of gods or even millions. But Abrahamic religions have one source despite hundreds of years different in time and thousands of kilometers away from each other. Thousands of years ago, all of them said that one day the world will end. This was a great evidence for me which I believe that they got this knowledge from a higher power. When I put this beside many other scientific facts mentioned in Quran, then I absolutely cannot deny the fact. Quran chapter 21 verse 104, today when we will fold the heaven like the folding of a written sheet for the records as we began the first creation, so we shall do it all over again. That is a promise binding upon us indeed we will do it. In this verse Allah talks about how the world will end as there are three possible ways the big chill, the big rip and the big crunch from these three possible ways Allah says the world will end through the big crunch. When he says we will fold the heaven like the folding of a written sheet so we shall do it all over again and Allah even tells us that there was a beginning for this universe when he says as we began the first creation, Quran chapter 21 verse 30, have those who are copper not considered that the heavens and the earth were a joint entity and we separated them and made from water every living thing then will they not believe today we know that the universe was a joint entity and the big bank separated everything but Allah told us this 1400 years ago and he even told us that every living creature on this planet has been created from water something that we didn't know in the past.  Once again Allah tells us that there was a beginning which started by a big bank and the word will end through the big crunch when he says he will repeat the creation. There are many more verses to add but as I said for someone only one fact is enough and for some not even the biggest miracle is enough. 1400 years ago in Arabia the greatest knowledge was only reading and writing. Prophet Muhammad didn't even have that knowledge. Talking about universe was absolutely out of question for him especially being correct. After all these facts I don't follow God just because he exists but because of his message that has changed our world to a better world and will change it to a perfect world in the future. His guidance will guide us to a world without war, prostitution, droughts, corruption, killings and any bad deeds. A world filled with love and equality. Thank you very much. That was my opening. Thank you very much for that opening. Two seconds I'm going to unmute myself on mute or zoom. Thank you very much for that opening and with that we are going to kick it over to Aaron for his opening as well but before we do I want to say first folks at a diverse time here at Modern Day Debate we are a neutral platform welcoming everybody whether you be Atheist, Muslim, Christian, you name it. We're glad that you are here and also want to say if you haven't yet hit that subscribe button as we have many big debates and discussions coming up. For example at the bottom right of your screen Daniel HaKikachu and inspiring philosophies Mike Jones have agreed to debate that's coming up on Modern Day Debate. You don't want to miss it so hit that subscribe button and with that thank you very much Aaron Rah the floor is all yours for your opening as well. All right well Islam true is Islam true. As I always say and I always say this the truth is what the facts are what we can show to be true not whatever else we might assume or imagine beyond or instead of that. And while there are many things that may be true that we don't yet know we can't say that they are true until we know if they are true and we can't honestly call it true. If we cannot honestly call it true if we cannot show the truth of it and no religion can do that because there is no truth to any of them. If you can't show it you don't know it and you shouldn't pretend that you do but religion is not and does not like the truth. They would rather make believe something else instead. Every religion is its own set of lies and the Islam is just newer lies based on older lies. As Abraham Lincoln said it is an established maxim in morals that he who makes an assertion without knowing whether it is true or false is guilty of falsehood and the accidental truth of the assertion does not justify or excuse him. So we know that it is dishonest to assert baseless speculation as if it was a matter of fact yet that is what all religions do. And the Koran does that all through every surah. Religion is literally make believe. Faith is all about pretending to know what no one even can know trying to make believe things that are not evidently true and religious apologetics is all about making up excuses to keep whatever excuse is necessary to keep believing what we already know is not true but that you're determined to believe it anyway. I was baptized Mormon and my family expected me to grow up Mormon and when they wanted me to read their scriptures they couldn't understand when I told them that the book of Mormon is based on the Bible so if the Bible is wrong, if Christianity is wrong, then Mormons are wrong too and if they're repeating the same claims and the same goes for Islam. And one of the advantages that Joseph Smith had over Muhammad was that in 19th century people had a much better understanding of the planets and how the earth relates to the rest of the cosmos. And Smith was much like the 20th century science fiction writer L. Ron Hubbard. They were two men who just made up their own religion fraudulently and they both included contemporary concepts of science fiction. Muhammad didn't have that back in the 7th century and he wasn't that imaginative either. All he did was take existing elements of Aryan Christianity and blended that with Arabian cultural traditions. And the Quran even admits that Muhammad was not well learned but he still had some knowledge of Greek scholars like Galen and so on. And when he referenced their work in the Quran, he included their mistakes as well because he had no idea they were in error. And there were some other learned men back then who knew better than Muhammad did about biology and astronomy and so on. But he didn't know about them. His sources were already out of date by the time he made up that religion. And those are not the only errors he included either. For example, the Bible describes the earth as flat as if the sun and the moon both orbit our disk world within the expanse of a giant crystal dome. And this was a common idea in ancient times from the Near East to the Far East. And the Bible repeats this mistake, this laughable mistake a few times, even pretending to quote God describing the earth as flat. Muhammad had a chance to correct that, but he didn't even know that it was a problem. So rather than fix this embarrassing error, Muhammad merely repeated the mistake, saying all sorts of silly things about the sun and the moon and how they're both the same size, both smaller than the earth and they both orbit around the sun and they both orbit around the earth and so on. The Bible says that the dome over the flat earth is solid, crystalline with a mirror finish looking like molten glass into which God put all the stars and such. And the Quran repeats that mistake too. And somehow makes it even worse because in the Quran, the stars are just lanterns stuck in the sky that in the solid sky that the angels can use as projectile weapons to defend against genies when they get too close to the roof of this dome, which is supposed to be where God's heavenly hotel is supposed to be. The Bible says that God fashioned and shaped this bowl to stretch out the heavens like a tent and Muhammad repeated that error too. And modern Muslim apologists have tried to twist that into two different references. As if it was supposed to refer to cosmic inflation, which we know it was never intended and still doesn't work. Imagine for a moment that God exists and created the universe as we perceive it today. And he knew how primitive people had always gotten it wrong until then. And he could have written an explanation of the world that the world that we walk on is like a floating bubble or a raindrop falling eternal with no end in either direction. And that there are many other bubbles or drops besides this one. And people would have understood that even back then the information would have been accurate even if it wasn't intuitive at the time and its truth would have been born out much better than what God allegedly said instead. Because Muslim apologists expect us to believe that God wrote the Quran conforming to the old and false notion of affirmament, knowing not only how that would not be understood correctly back then, but knowing how it would have been understood incorrectly, wrongly, misleading so many for centuries and how that description given then still cannot be reconciled with Big Bang cosmology today. Because we know what the scripture says and why it said that because Muhammad didn't know any better. And when I speak of Muhammad, I'm really only referring to whoever or whatever collective cobbled together the Quran or and the myriad interpretations in the Hadiths. I'm told that no one even knows how many Hadiths there are but they're treated as authoritative just like the rabbis and the Torah were considered authorities even though none of those people in either religion had any idea of how to know what they were talking about and it shows. And much of Christianity on which Islam is based was literally dreamt up by mystics who could not distinguish fantasy from reality. That's how religion was invented. We know and can show that the global flood of Noah's Ark never happened. Yet the Quran says it did several times. Even says that everyone alive now is necessarily a descendant of Noah. The mere fallible people who compiled the Quran because it was obviously a collective effort clearly not dictation given by God. Those superstitious believers in mysticism were raised to revere folklore that we can now prove to be nothing more than fairy tales. We know for certain that Adam and Eve were just characters in a fable with no truth in it. That prior to the Hebrew myth of creation both of those characters already existed in Mesopotamian mythos and that they were adapted to Jewish tradition and adopted by Muslims as well but there was never any truth to that story. This may come as a surprise to some people in the audience but snakes can't talk nor could there be any truth to that story. And we know this. It is childish and inane to even attempt to argue otherwise but it's not just that the Quran is wrong about practically everything it says about science, about cosmology, biology, even about history. It's so wrong that it would still be morally wrong even if it was factually accurate. There's so much wrong with it and I know we'll get to a lot of that later in this debate but for right now let's look at the worst of it. The notion of hell for the unbeliever. The empty threat of a fate worse than death. That is repeated in almost every surah of the Quran. If there really was a God and he was a righteous judge, something worthy of worship then there could not be a hell because that ultimate injustice contradicts everything we're told that God is supposed to stand for. The only reason hell exists as a concept in Christianity or Islam is to extort support from the gullible rubes through fear by which the leaders of the clergy can assume financial and political power. The problem is that it doesn't matter how good you are.   Either version of God is equally wrong and immoral and a very poor judge. Fortunately, there is no God so he literally does not give a damn. You got it. Thank you very much for that opening as well, Aaron. And want to go into the open dialogue, folks. Want to let you know we'll have Q and A after the open discussion. So if you happen to have a question, feel free to tag me in the live chat with at modern day debate or if you ask via super chat those go to the top of the list. And with that, thank you very much, Perfectawa and Aaron the floor is all yours for open dialogue. All right, I just would like to say as well that I go live after this debate. And I would like to say, as I said for some people, even the biggest miracle is not enough, okay. And I would like to ask Aaron, do you know Aaron about the three possible way that the world will end? The big chill, the big crunch and the big reap. Do you know anything about that? Those are three of many possibilities. None of which are relevant, by the way, to your argument. All right, but so far it's three, not many. I haven't heard any other than these three, okay. Well, there's nuclear devastation, that's one. And then the ending of the world from our perspective is certainly plausible where life will continue after our species has extinguished itself. I'm not talking about our planet. I'm talking about the entire universe. There are three possible way that how the world will end, the universe. I'm only aware of two then because big crunch has been pretty much eliminated. But I know that the big bang is not a beginning of the universe. That I've talked to a number of cosmologists about this that they believe that the universe is eternal in either direction. And so there is, you can have an argument that maybe there could be heat death. But then some cosmologists, just like Sean Carroll, for example, argues that there's just a changing state and even the possibility that gravity becomes a repellent force rather than an attractive force. And I don't do cosmology because as I said, it's irrelevant to this discussion. It has nothing to do with whether there's a God or not. And we're not arguing about whether there's a God or not anyway. The point of this debate is, is Islam true? No, and there's nothing the Quran says that's factually accurate or morally true. There's nothing true about it. So if we could stick to the topic. Okay, yeah. The topic is that the evidence that, which I presented that Quran talks about. Wait, wait, no you didn't. I said that. This is your opening argument.  Okay, I said that that's a, when Quran talks about the repeating the universe, okay? Unfolding it first like a written sheet, okay? Quran is talking about, you know, the big chill or it's known as well as the pulsing theory, okay? Before I see these, before I see these verses of Quran, I believe in that, you know, because I believe that God has existed forever and will exist forever. So he couldn't just decide to create the universe 15 billion years ago. So it must have been done in the past forever and in the future will continue to happen again and again until I saw these many verses of Quran that Allah says that he will repeat it again, okay? And that made me believe that, yes, the big crunch or the pulsing theory is the correct theory, okay? So- I'm sorry that you misunderstood both cosmology and your own theology because what the Quran actually talks about as a day of judgment, we're on this planet, on this physical planet, that they're supposed to be an eclipse of the sun and the moon because the Quran gets those confused too. But it says that when these signs happen and the day of judgment comes, then our physical bodies will be reanimated and crawl out of our physical graves to go to a physical location in the physical dome of the non-existent firmament where we're gonna all live forever in God's eternal hotel in the expanse of this firmament, which means that the physical earth must continue to exist for us to be sitting in this physical realm. Otherwise nothing in the Quran says about the judgment that the day of judgment or our eternity thereafter in this abode makes any sense. If the universe comes to an end then so does this planet and so does the- What's the answer? Yeah, the answer is that it is on this planet. I haven't seen that such a verse that- Oh, yes you have. It's all over the Quran. You just go back and read it again. I can help you. I've got a- I'll give you the verse. I've got a third book coming out about this and Infidel reads the Quran and I can point out the verses too. I wish I could have had it compiled before this debate but I'm too busy with other things. I have all the notes. I just don't have it all assembled yet. So it does talk about our physical bodies crawling out of physical graves which means on this planet because for whatever reason, Muhammad didn't go the route that other religions did. They all confused the idea that we have to breathe air in and out. Everybody else thought that that was spirit, that air was spirit. And when they saw dust devils they thought they were literally devils. So they thought that air and the movement of air was divine or spiritual. But Muhammad didn't.  But that's not how Muhammad envisioned it. He just, he envisioned our actual physical bodies coming back to life like zombies that would be and the Quran even says this that our bodies will be reinvigorated. They'll be recharged back to our youthful living selves or vital selves the way we were before. And then we still have to eat and we still have to drink and we still have houses where we need shelter even in heaven where we will continue to have sex. So yeah, it's a continuation of the physical world and it all happens on this planet because Muhammad didn't know there were other planets. No, no, that's not on this planet. That's in heaven and heaven is in another dimension. So and that's the way. No, it isn't. And the Quran is explicit about this over and over again. The heavens, the sky, the dome of the firmament. This is the place where they put all the lights that are the stars, but they're not stars in the Quran. Instead of, because Muhammad didn't know what stars are, he said they were lights that the angels could use as projectile weapons to lob against genies when they get too close. And that that's why we see what we call shooting stars, meteors, he didn't know what those are. He thought those were angels waging war and shooting at devils. Look, Aaron, I said that this is what all Muslims believe. I don't know from where you have gotten it that the Quran read it, it's full of nonsense like that.  We talk about another side is not on this planet Earth. So and then you said about- That's not what the Quran says.  No, there is nothing in Quran that sent disbelievers to hell. That's the- There's every surah. There's every surah, except for two or three of the ones that amount to only one sentence.  That's it, over and over again. No, it doesn't say, okay? Give me a single- It always says that. It almost only says- It's a coffer, it's a coffer. It's a coffer. The coffer is not disbeliever, Aaron, okay? I can give you now the verses because you don't have the verses, okay? I don't need the verses. There's two- No, you need, you have to give- It's the whole book. No, you have to come with the evidences, Aaron. You cannot just- I have the evidence, by the way, by evidences, not evidences. It's just evidence that's collected. It's already in plural. And the evidence I already gave was that almost every surah says this, that you say it never says.  Give me one surah. Very first one, the way that it is currently written right now, that the book, the way that they put it, everything out of order, the way that it is commonly published, very first surah starts out, believe the Quran or else you go to hell. Every surah thereafter, except for a couple that are only two or three sentences, they all say that. No, it says that. Look, it's about coffer, okay? It says chapter 16, verse 83 says, they recognize the favor of Allah, then they deny it. And most of them are coffers. This is talking about disbelievers and say most of them are coffers, not all of them, okay? So there are many, many verses in Quran I can put for you that Allah is talking about those who commit coffer, okay? And committing coffer can be by Muslims, can be by non-Muslims, okay?  No, there's not an option.  There's no option for somebody like me, for an atheist.  And that the Quran is explicit about that repeatedly throughout.   And according to the way that they have it, if the only sin that will not be forgiven, it doesn't matter how evil you are, every sin can be forgiven if you believe and ask for forgiveness. But the only sin that will not be forgiven is the sin of disbelief.  If you're Christian, you can, if you love sin, be a Christian because you can sin all you want to and just be forgiven for it. But the Muslims don't have that same loophole.  Chapter three, verse 113, not all of them are alike. The people of the book are a person that stand for the right. They rehearse the verses of God all night long and they prostrate themselves in adortion. Next verse, they believe in God and the last day. Then enjoying what is right.  And to say that God has children or a partner is a damnable offense.  I specified that already. Now Quran says, chapter three, verse 115, I was continuing and whatever good they do will never be removed from them. And Allah is knowing of all, sorry, the righteous. So you're pointing out a contradiction then? Sorry, no, it's not a contradiction. It's a combination. If the Quran says that if you believe in the Trinity, if you say that God has children or that God has partners or that Jesus is God, if you say any of those things, you're going to hell. No, it's not saying. And then you're saying that on top of that, that the Quran also says that you don't necessarily have to go to hell. I never came across that verse by the way and I read it in its entirety. You're saying that people can be forgiven for being unbelievers, that you don't have to believe and you can still be in heaven. Yes, Quran says that there is a verse in Quran that says that those who fight for equality, it is in Quran mentioned caste. If they get killed, it doesn't say Muslim. If they get killed, they will go to heaven. So Quran separate people who do good deeds and people who do bad deeds. So it's all about doing good deeds and submitting to Allah's will, which is doing good deeds. So if you do good deeds and you avoid bad deeds, Allah knows that you have errors, you might not understand. So Allah understands all these. So He's not going to punish you for, and He even doesn't punish you.  No, it's another unbeliever, it's a kaffir. Kaffir, I mentioned for you, I said that kaffir doesn't mean disbeliever.  No, it says it over and over. There's no sense in saying the book doesn't say the only thing it says. It says it all the time. Every street you're telling me it doesn't say that at all. No, the thing is that you have read the wrong translation. Okay? Yes. Excuse me, excuse me. I read six translations at once. Yes. And then just to make sure that I got it correct, I then after I wrote my analysis, my comparison of the multiple translations, then I had a, for every surah, I had a video meeting where I would, I met with a panel of people who were all raised in Islam and who spoke Arabic and knew all of the traditions to tell me what I got right or wrong. Yeah, it says the thing you say it never says, it says it all the time. Yeah, it does. Give me a single quote. Don't tell me that I didn't come with evidence. I've got the whole damn book. Every surah says that. And you're saying it never says it at all. It contradicts itself a lot. And you can't use the one time it contradicts this other thing to say that this is the one thing it means. No, it doesn't contradict. It completes the verses by other verses. Okay? No, it doesn't. It just adds more confusion, which is another thing that the Quran got wrong. I mean, the Quran always says how clear the Quran is. And yet I have to read six different translations because they all contradict each other. The way that it was translated from Arabic into English still produces six translations that disagree with each other. And then I still need a panel of people who know the cultural traditions to tell me what the interpretations are. And then it all has to cite back to Hadiths written by nobody knows who or nobody, somebody who doesn't know what they're talking about. So it doesn't matter.  There is no hell. If there was a God, there is no God. But if there was a God, there would not be a hell. So the first thing you need to argue about is show me that there's a God first, then prove there is no hell because that's part of the proof that there is a God. And therefore you're out of place. You can't justify Islam after that. You're done. All right. Aaron, first of all, depend on what is God for you. For you might be God, somebody who's sitting, an entity sitting up there and looking down on the universe. But for me, God is the universe. And we are all inside this. So like I can say, giant, giant country, sorry.  No, I'm not a pantheist. I'm a Muslim. You can either adopt a deistic position or you can take up the position that maybe we have a consciousness to the universe, which is a more pantheistic position. But neither of those things are concordant with Islam because Islam is tied to the Quran and the Quran is full of nonsense. It says that Adam and Eve existed when we know they didn't. It says that Noah's Ark happened when we know it didn't. When it says all these animals were created when we know they were not.  It says that Solomon had genies working for him and that he had the doctor do little power of being able to talk to animals. He had a conversation with an aunt. We know there's full of fairy tales in here. We know these things didn't happen. No, you're happy listening. It doesn't matter if there's a deistic God or not. Islam is still failed. Okay. Aaron, Quran chapter three verse seven says that those type of verses are unspecific verses of Quran and the only one who knows the true interpretation of those verses is Allah and those firm in knowledge. But those who talk is full of it. So you're saying that God only knows and there is no God, which means nobody knows. No. Aaron, listen to me. I said Allah says only God, only Allah and those firm in knowledge. Okay. So there are people who knows, but it says that those whose heart is corrupted, they try to interpret it in a way suitable for their agenda. So you go and listen- So you got the poisoning of the well thing going on there. So you are going to, you listen to some people like these APs there, he just changed everything the way he wants. Okay. And so these type of verses, they need people who have the right knowledge to explain it correctly. That Solomon didn't talk to us and so on. So that's a different, you know, a long discussion. But you said about disbeliever, give me a verse so that I can prove you that Quran doesn't say disbelievers, okay? Quran says, Yeah, over and over and over again. It says that you must believe in order to save yourself from the hell. It doesn't just say coffers. But I'm not going to argue the scripture. We're arguing whether the collection of all of that, which is all full of nonsense, is that collection true? It doesn't matter if there's a God or not. It really doesn't. If there is a God and there isn't, but let's pretend for a moment there is. If there is a God, there still is no hell and Islam is still false. Why if God punish Adolf Hitler, do you think that it's just that, because God is just, okay? God is not just in the Quran. No, no, no, no, no, listen. No, God judge in both the Bible and the Quran, God judges people not for the actual, well, in the Quran, I'll give you this, the Quran actually does judge people over evil actions where the Bible does not. Okay. But what the Quran more likely judges for is belief. It really does. So you have to believe a certain way or else you're out. No, this is the way you have been persuaded by somebody, okay, but it is not- I read the Quran. No, Quran is- Different versions of it. Okay, yes. It wasn't somebody else who misled me. It was the Quran said that. Okay, I read for you several verses and I can read- Yeah, you read for me a couple of contradictions. Yes, yes, yes. And then you pretend that it didn't say the thing that it says all the way throughout. It is not a contradiction, it's a completion, okay? It's not a completion if it says one thing and then says the exact opposite thing later. No, it doesn't say opposite. It says that those who do good deeds, those who do good deeds, they will enter heaven. I can read for you many verses. I know it does say that those who do good deeds, but it almost consistently I've noticed that the Quran constantly conflates doing good with believing. And it says, it even specifies a few times that not believing is doing evil. It conflates those things and it's very explicit about it. Okay, it doesn't say believing, it says to be being a mu'min. It's about mu'minun, okay? And mu'minun doesn't mean believers, it means those who are saved, okay? Those who do not harm people, okay? So this is all about- But you still have to believe. Okay, no, it's- And it does say over and over and over again. Per answer, yes, okay. Believing is doing good. That believing means doing good and doing good means believing, it does. Quran says that- I've made many, many notes about that in my coming book. Okay, okay. Quran says that those who, in the hell, those who get punished, okay? When they see the punishment, they say, oh, Lord, send us back so that we do good deeds. If they don't say send us back so that we believe, they say send us back so that we do good deeds. So it's about all, and I can read for you many verses, these all about- And I can read for you many verses that say what I say too, because- Okay. It does say what you say it doesn't say. And that's not even the issue. The issue is the Quran is wrong for a whole bunch of different reasons, but the bigger thing than that is understanding why there cannot be a hell, why that contradicts the notion of God. So we can just toss out Islam.  It says a lot of things that are wrong, but let's just focus on the Quran saying that there's a hell.  But even if- Why you know? You pretend for a moment that there is a God, there still isn't a hell and Quran is still wrong. So you say that you know that there is no hell? How do you know that there is not a hell? I'm sorry, what? You said that you know that there is no hell. How do you know that? Well, if there was a God, as I said- Okay. Hell couldn't exist unless there is your version of God, but if there actually was a God, then hell still wouldn't exist because the God wouldn't create it, nor would the God allow it. Why?   It's not a concept that would actually exist if there really was a God because God would not mercilessly punish anybody Nobody ever did anything so evil that it would have warrant an eternity of being burned alive and skinned alive and tortured by every other means. Nobody ever deserved that. No God would ever do that. No God would ever allow that. Just the only reason it exists is as a concept for people who want to evoke fear to extort money and tithing. All right, okay.  I believe that they deserve to be judged and punished because they were not punished in this life, okay? So this is, and if they just go on, you know. What is the purpose of punishment? The purpose of punishment is that they have been hurting people, they have been killing people. So and God, they- Does punishing them fix that? Does that make the people not hurt? Okay, that one is up to God to decide, okay, if it will help. But for some people, it helps, okay?  But again, to get back to the same question I just asked, what is the purpose of punishment? Okay, the purpose of punishment, because they didn't follow his commands and he's the creator, okay? He was telling them to do good deeds, and they didn't, okay? Okay, so what's the purpose? So you said they should be punished. Why should they be punished? Why people should be, yeah, why should people should be punished for their wrong doing, okay? Okay, but why? You don't understand that one, no, because you have- No, no, I don't think you understand that. That's why I'm asking you. Yes. Why should they be punished?  Why they should be punished? Because I said, yes, because they have done, you have done something wrong, you have to know, be punished. Okay, so you've done something wrong. Not just something wrong. You think that somebody who's done something wrong should be punished? Why? Why should be punished? Right. Yeah, why not? Can you tell me- No, why not? No, tell me why not? No, Aaron, tell me why not? So there has to be- When you decide to punish someone- Because it is just, because it is just- How is it just? In what way? So you wanna punish somebody, if you wanna find them, if the punishment is a fine, we could then apply that fine to say the next of kin or to the victims.  So there's a benefit to the person who's been hurt or wronged. What I'm trying to get at is when you're punishing someone, say you're gonna punish them through a fine. Okay, good. Now you've got some restitution for the victim. There's some benefit there. There's other types of punishment that the result or the purpose of those other types of punishment could be for rehabilitation, which I think would be brilliant, especially if you're gonna have something that's gonna live forever, forever and ever and ever.   What is the goal of the punishment? Because if it is insane revenge for ever and ever and ever and ever and ever and ever, then you're not talking about a just God.  So if there's a benefit, if there's a goal, if there's some kind of restitution for the punishment, then why would you punish someone? What's the goal of that? What are you trying to achieve? Look, Aaron, that's up to God, okay? Because I said beginning, okay? I said from the beginning, I don't follow God just because- Let's say it's not up to God. Let's put it up to you for a moment.  What is your reason for punishing it? Is it because you wanna get justice for your victims, meaning that you need to benefit the victims in some way or you wanna rehabilitate the person who's done wrong so that they understand that they've done something wrong and can do better- Somebody has been killed. You cannot benefit by finding that person, okay? That person's life has been ended by company. So there's no benefit to being tortured mercilessly. All there is is the evil of your imaginary God. All right, okay. Aaron, my concern is not what's happening next life, okay? My concern is what's happening on this planet in this life, okay? So my concern is that I said from beginning that I follow God not just because he exists. I'm not following him because he's going to punish people who do bad deeds, okay? I'm following him because he has changed our life to a better one, okay? In the past, we can go through that. No, it doesn't. Okay? And then he's going to change our life to a perfect life in the future. No, he doesn't. Islam is wrong about that too. Okay. If Islam, everything that the Quran says about what will happen to us. I don't, I don't. Can I ask you a question? Did Christianity change Romans and Greeks from crucifying people, killing people in the stadium? Did Christianity abolish all those barbaric acts or not? No, sadly, because religious people tend to be statistically more in favor of torture of prisoners and they're more in favor of the death penalty. And the highly religious are also statistically more likely to be child abusers. So how it finished, so how it finished those barbaric acts of Romans and Greeks? How it finished? How, I can't understand what you're saying. The barbaric acts of Romans and Greeks, those killing gladiators in the stadiums, crucifying people. Although that finished after Christianity, yet they were abolished. So how it finished? Oh, the thing that's still going on was abolished after Christianity. Okay. So why it was abolished? Why wasn't it? No, why? So it was that Christians like to argue that there was a time when they were fed to the lions or whatever, because a Christian is not complete if they can't pretend to be persecuted somehow. No, they didn't do it against Christians. They did it against the slaves, yeah? They brought the slaves and then they put the slaves. And the Jews did the same thing. So the Jews before them, you mean Moses commanding his people to go murder the Medianites just slaughter everybody, burn the village down to the ground, take all the booty.  But the little girls, the preteen girls, inspect them to see if they've had sex with a man and if they have not had sex with a man, you may keep those preteen virgins for yourself, nudge, nudge. All right, yes. I understand, they were, I said that. Yeah, and that was, that was Moses. Look, I said, your God didn't stop that evil. He didn't stop the Christian evil. He doesn't stop Muslim evil.  There's no rehabilitation because you're never gonna get a chance to learn your lesson.  You have all these people that get no evidence that hell exists. They're just told to believe that you better believe.  And then you'll say, oh, I wish that I'd believed. What's too late now, isn't it? And now we're gonna punish you for 11 billion, billion years forever. And ever, times 10. Okay, you went again to that part. I said that, I believe that religion has changed our life to better. No, no, no, religion has changed our lives. That's true. It has impeded, retarded, or reversed project progress in every application that it has ever touched. It has been a net negative against humanity. It is responsible for the greatest evils, virtually all the greatest evil. My question was how those barbaric acts of Romans and Greeks finished there in Europe. They just stopped it or it was because of Christianity? Because it started out that Christianity was illegal because they were obnoxious. And then with it, once I forget the guy's name, I having a senior moment, the Constantine, once he became Christian within 70 years, it became illegal to be anything but Christian. And then suddenly you have after Christianity took over, then suddenly you've got 9 million pagan women who were killed by the inquisition, simply for not being Christian. And that says nothing about the holy wars. So yeah, religion, the Abrahamic God, the war God that you worship has been the source of virtually all evil. I mean, there are some exceptions, but most of the greatest evil that has happened in American or human history has been because of belief in your God. But that's not what we're arguing about right now. We're not arguing about Christianity, what was wrong with them.   And Islam repeats that same lie. I'm just trying to tell you that I said that the biggest miracle is not going to change some people's mind, okay? That's why I was going to tell you that if, because I believe that Islam changed people's lives, for example, Islam saved millions of girls from being buried alive, okay? That's one of many great good things that Islam, for example, I can give you an example. I'll give you that too, that in the pre-Islamic times, there was that barbaric Arabic culture where they were so sexist that they thought that if you have a girl child and you can only have so many children, well, you don't have enough money to support everybody. Well, she's a girl, so she's without value. So let's just bury the baby in the desert. I'm glad that Islam says no, you shouldn't bury the girl. You should sell her to somebody instead. No, Islam doesn't say where it says that you should sell. I don't know from where you get this. Okay, another thing is that- Again, from the Quran, have you read it? Because I don't think you have. Very important. Have you noticed where it describes your heaven, for example, this is one of the great indictments of the Quran and now injustice it is. And since you're talking about the injustice of sexism right now, let's look at heaven.  Only one wife. What? Only one wife. Well, you can have up to four according to the Quran. You really ought to read the Quran. No, I read, I have read it. No, you should read it. So it says that you can have up to four wives. I have read it. And you get to take your wives to heaven where they come to heaven with you and they're still your wives in heaven. But when you get to heaven, you also get other virgins. You don't get 72 virgins. The Quran never says that. I don't honestly know where people got the 72 number from. It doesn't say that, but what it does say is that there are other women who did not exist on the earth, who didn't have lives on the earth. They exist only in heaven. They are called into existence by God specifically so that they can be virgins to service you. So the wives that you had on earth now have to wait in line, not only between the other wives, but they also have to wait behind your soulless sex robots that you get in heaven. And that's not even the, that's bad enough, but there's worse. There's children also who never grow up, who exist in heaven only to be waiters forever. They wait on the other children that bring you non-alcoholic beverages while you sit in the great, in God's great lobby, forever on sofas, discussing what?  I couldn't imagine the worst existence. I mean, it's hard to imagine being tortured in the hell, but I mean, the heaven isn't really any better. It's not when you stretch it out over an eternity. Yes. Aaron, these are ways that God was talking to the people of the past, okay? And I said that the heaven is, we are not body, we are soul and everything is, I believe. Except there's no soul either. Yeah, everything is. And we know that. Okay. We know that. So there's no support for mind, body, dualism, either in neuroscience nor even in philosophy, right where you would exactly expect that there would be, if there was such a thing as a soul, we would have shown that by now, even being supernatural, we would still have known it by now, if it was real, and it's not. Aaron, Aaron, I believe that although I'm not so, I mean, Mahatma Gandhi was there, you know, Pagan, but I believe that it was great that he was- Wasn't it Pagan, he was Hindu? Oh yeah, Hindu, okay. Anyway, he believed in, we call them Pagan, it's okay. But anyway, so, but yet it was great that he came because he benefited humanity, okay? He saved Indians from, you know, colonialism. So, and I believe that Islam, Christianity, Judaism, they benefited, you know, humanity. And for example, in China, Muslims and Christians, you know, they don't boil dogs and cats alive. They don't grill them alive. But some other people who do not believe in these religions, they do such a terrible, you know, acts. They grill dogs alive. They boil them alive. So, these are some small, you know, great teachings of these religions that thought people not to be cruel against their animals. And it is not only that, for example, as a Persian, okay? I've seen Muslim traditions, there's some Muslim traditions that I've seen videos for where they'd have like a cow walking through a crowd of people and everybody throws darts at it. And there's all kinds of like, you know, death by a thousand cuts, sort of barbaric ceremonies. Are you saying that none of these are real? I've seen them. No, no, this is, if somebody do that, this is absolutely against Islam, okay? But anyway, I say- So, all these Muslims do this for Islam and that's absolutely against Islam. You should represent Islam better because there's a whole lot of Muslims.  I don't know from, I have never seen such a things, okay? Another thing is that I was going to tell you is that as a Persian, okay, we had a religion despite we were, Persia was a great empire, but we never had, you know, slaves and we never had those crucifixions, the stoning and all these things because we had a religion that taught us three just three commands, good deeds, good totes and good, you know, words, okay? Through these three teachings, Persia never had such a barbaric act, okay? So religion has changed our life to a better one. No, no, it hasn't. It has changed every aspect of our lives to be worse. Okay. Everything, no, religion has changed your lives for the worse, it's made everything worse. There's not a good aspect to believing things that are not evidently true. You should never be allow yourself to be completely convinced of something that is evidently not true. And apologetics is all about trying to make believe things that are not true. Okay. But we know we're not true. But the thing is that Islam has made me a much better person myself, okay? Okay. You're a better person than the Quran. Okay.  All right. Yes, okay. And people just in general are better than the atrocious, abominable, ghastly God that would condemn people for such trivialities as disbelief. Okay. It's not disbelief. I said it again many times. I know that you were wrong about this and you're never gonna concede your error, but that is exactly what it says. Over and over and over again. It doesn't say.  You could just. I could just prove that I'm right. I have all the, I have the whole Quran. I've already written a book about that. Yes, give me a single verse that says. And I have every single verse that says exactly what I said it says. Yes, let's prove it. Yeah, Aaron, let's check it together, okay? Let's bring up that verse, okay? And then that's the verse. It's in almost every surah as a surah. Okay, give me one verse. It is covered. Aaron, I said. It is not just one verse. It's not just one word. It's over and over again. And it specifies explicitly. Again and again and again in various places, many places over that you have to believe. And if you, and believing is equivalent to doing good and that doing bad is equivalent to disbelief. It does in fact say that over and over and over and over again. Okay, can I share the screen, please? Do you see the screen? Yes, I see the screen. Yeah, you see the screen, great. This is chapter 16 verse 83, okay? Look at the translation, all right? This is about disbelievers. In Quran says, they who turn away from it are fully aware of God's blessings, but none and the less they refuse to acknowledge them as such, since most of them are giving to deny the truth, okay? Well, thank you for making my point for me and admitting that the Quran outward lies. Okay, so that's an outright lie? About what? Yeah, because unbelievers do not deny the truth. The problem is you don't have truth. Okay. Yeah, and we're not denying the truth. We're not denying the lie, we're showing the truth. No, I was right. And the truth is what the facts are and you don't have those. No, Aaron. All you have is the lie. No, Aaron, please, I'm just trying to translate the word kafirun, here in Arabic, look in Arabic it's written kafirun, which they, here they, sorry, it went, here in this verse, they change it not to disbelievers, some of them do that. But yeah, they didn't change it. It's still talking about disbelievers. No, no. It's still talking about disbelief. And that is still a lie. That's an outright lie. It says the majority of people who don't believe, one, are aware of God's blessings, two, that's a lie. And that we deny the truth, because that's a lie too. Okay, look. There are no blessings to your religion. There's horror that you have never understood. You maybe you will, because I know a lot of people who come away from Islam. No, it doesn't say the truth. Once they become ex-Muslims, they realize that the darkness they lived in that they thought was light. Aaron, it doesn't say that the truth, it says that they recognize God's blessings. I'm sorry, I thought you just read for me a translation. It says that most of them are given to denying the truth. That is what it says, isn't it? I mean, that's your citation. No. That lie right there, that lie right there, that's your own citation. Aaron, Aaron, this is many different translations. I'm going to... But this is the one you're showing. So that's the one you're backing. The lie you just showed me is the lie you're trying to push on me. Can you please let me explain, please? I'm going to show you that one verse, how many different translations... Yeah, so one verse lied, are you going to at least admit that one verse lied? That verse specifically? Aaron, Aaron, I'm saying that. It is one verse, okay? And it is a lie. No, there are many...  Okay, what is lie? Can you tell me? It says that they recognize... When you say something that is not true, or deceptive effect, that is a lie. Okay. That statement is a lie. That statement says that the majority of those who do not, who refuse to acknowledge God's blessings, one, we don't refuse. So there's a third lie in the same sentence. It's not that we refuse. We don't believe the empty, unsupported assertion of impossible nonsense. Okay. And then it is not the majority. It says the majority of us are given to denying the truth. No, the vast majority of us, and I would say the entirety, but let's just be charitable and say the majority of us want the truth and only care about the truth. And Islam is not the truth. Aaron, Aaron, you don't have. Because it is a lie, and every lie says it's the truth. Aaron, you don't let me to talk, please. Okay? I say... All right, go ahead and continue to lie for a minute. Koran says, Koran says most of them are coffer. Okay. Here, somebody else has put, it is Chibi Arwing. They recognize God's favor. Then they disregard it. Most of them are disbelievers. Okay. Another one says, and most, sorry, most of them are the one who are ungrateful. Right, so that goes back to what I said earlier. I'm just saying, Aaron, listen to me, please. Right, so we agree.  Okay, Aaron, I'm just telling you that coffer here doesn't mean disbelieve, okay? Well, it comes to most, to all coffers, sorry. Again, it's not down to one word and it's not down to one verse. No, it is not about one word. It is over and over and over again. I couldn't cite all the verses to cite it, but actually I already have, but they're in my book. You'd have to get the whole book for that. Aaron, I can give you many verses, okay? And I can give you many verses that prove that you're wrong. Okay, and this one that you've just cited is a lie. That's a lie. I tell you that. That's three lies in one sentence that I counted so far. Look, let me tell you, Quran says disbelievers, okay, most of disbelievers are coffers. It doesn't say all these believers are coffers. But it does say that the majority of the unbelievers are given to denying the truth. No, no, no, no, no, no, it is not. It is not. It says favor. It is a lie. No. What you say is the majority doesn't apply to anybody. No, it says. There's nobody who denies the Quran or who fails to believe in the Quran is necessarily given to denying the truth. I know lots of people who are given to denying the truth. I call them Christians. Okay. And so those people may, that the Christians may reject the Quran because they're not, because they're given to denying the truth of reality and that's why they're Christian. But it has nothing to do with rejecting the truth of Islam because there is no truth to Islam.  No, it is not about rejecting Islam. It's just about rejecting. Of course, that's all that verse was talking about. No, the verse is talking. They know the favor of Allah and then they deny it. Okay. Then deny it. Okay. But they don't know that and they don't deny that. It says most of them are kafir. Most of them, it doesn't say most of them are disbelievers. Most of them are those who do bad deeds. Okay. It's about doing bad deeds. Kuf is about doing committing bad deeds. I can give you many verses that says that those. And I can give you many verses that contradict you and show that I'm right. And I already have listed many verses that show that I'm right and that you're wrong. So you say kuf means disbelief, yeah? No, that's not what I said. Quit strong. I've already corrected that same error four or five times in this conversation. Quit repeating that mistake. Which mistake? The one where you pretend that I'm saying that kafir is the only word. No matter how many times I've corrected that mistake of yours, you keep repeating that same mistake. No, but you say kafir is... That's not what I'm saying. So what is kafir? Can you tell me please? I don't care what kafir is. I said it's not down to one word and it's not down to one verse. There are different descriptions in various places throughout the Quran where it says that you must believe and it equates that believing equals doing good and disbelief equals being bad. The word kafir doesn't always come up. It's not dependent on that one word. Please don't make me explain the same thing to you again.  But we know that there is no Quran. We know that there is no hell and that there is no God. And if there was a God, Quran would still be wrong and Islam would still be wrong. So it's pointless to even discuss this. Let's get back to the topic. Is Islam true? No, not about a damn thing. Not about one single thing. All right, let me tell you in this way, okay Aaron, I say that humanity has two ways, okay?  Or they have to live in a world where they love one another, they share everything with each other. So humanity has these two ways, okay? If you want to live in this jungle, then we don't need Islam, we don't need Christianity, we don't need anything because this jungle is run by our nature, okay? But if you want to live in that human world where we love one another, there is no left inside of it. And we must give up religion and adopt secular humanism. Okay, that's good. If you can, I say that. Yeah, we can definitely give up religion, which is the source of all the evil you were just talking about. And we can just have humanist values, which is where I'm at. Okay. So if we want to live in what you call the jungle and I call reality, then we can do that and we can have brotherly love and humanitarian concerns. And we can just give up pretending to believe things that are not really true. Okay, no, but look, if that's not a big deal, okay? The big deal is that if you can create that word, I believe, this is my belief according to- Well, I'd like to create that world. There's just one huge impediment in the way. And that's religion. Okay, that's- Now, once we get rid of religion, so that we can stop religion from changing people's lives for the worst. But if religion, if religion says, okay, if religion also says that we have to live in that world, do you think that it is not help for you, for your world, that your world view? Because I believe it is the jungle- My worldview, such as it is. Such as it is to live in a world- I don't want to be fooled into believing in anything that is not evidently true. No, just a few minutes until Q and A. Yeah, but Aaron, if the religion back you up, okay, why shouldn't you accept it? For example, I said- If a religion were to back me up, then I would accept it. But since no religion backs you up, then I am forced to reject it. Okay, but my religion backs you up and say that- But it doesn't. Your religion contradicts everything that is good about humanity. Your religion is a perversion of our nature. Your religion is evil. Religion in general is evil, but yours is most evil among them. So you mean that if I say we love one another, okay, that's evil. The Quran doesn't? No. The Quran says to judge people eternally for the mind crime of disbelief. Yeah, that's- And for the mind crime of having other beliefs. Yeah, the Quran doesn't- Because the whole God of Abraham thing, it doesn't matter which version it is. I mean, and this is something I noticed when I was eight years old. I was always hearing about wars in the Middle East. I was always hearing about conflicts. And I thought it's strange that the Jews, the Muslims and the Christians, each of them claim to be the religion of peace and that all of them claim to have the same God who is the God of loving forgiveness and mercy. And yet these three religions have been at war with each other, each since their inception and apparently will be at war eternally, proving that yours is not the God of peace or loving forgiveness. No, it is not so. Right, it is not so. That's why you've upped your religion. It is wrong.  It's not just that your religion believes things that are socially backward. You don't listen to me, Aaron. It's just evil, the concept that you have to believe that we have to control what people think. Aaron, I didn't say- That alone is evil. But the fact that it is constantly using every logical fallacy throughout the Quran to just simply assume your conclusion, the question-begging fallacy is riddled through that book. That's another reason why you should give it up. The fact that you have to do the submission five times a day where you have to do the culturally forced submission to prayer, even if you don't believe, that alone is evil. That is evil enough. By itself, without anything else added in- I think that- We should completely abandon that belief. Yeah, I think that, yes. Aaron, I think that you should have talked about- I'll give you the last word, perfectawa, and then we've got to go into the Q and A. Yeah. I think that you shouldn't go- You shouldn't talk about things that you are not so knowledgeable in- Oh, you're right. That's why I'm talking about this, and that's why you should take your own advice.  Yeah, let me talk. Let me talk. You said that Christianity, Judaism, and Islam, they are at war. No, they are not at war. It is just the powers who abuse religions they want. For example, I know that you, in that debate with Daniel, I call him Daniel ISIS Jew. Sorry. Who what? Daniel ISIS Jew. How did he get you?  His religion is terrible for me. If that's Islam, I'm the biggest enemy of that Islam, Aaron. Okay, so you have to understand- Thank you for that. Yes, you have to understand that my Islam, the Islam I believe is totally different to that Islam.  Okay, can you do that? Because I have asked James, but unfortunately- I'd love to see that too. I mean, clearly he didn't have any knowledge of atheism. No, he did not. He's a terrible person. All right, I think we'll jump into the Q&A because you're both going against Daniel who's not here to defend himself. So we're gonna jump into the Q&A. We've got a number of questions here folks. I'm gonna read through them as fast as possible. So I wanna say, first, Zagros Askan, thanks for your question, says, according to the Quran, where does sperm come from? All right, that it is doesn't say that it's coming from the back bones.  They say, for example, you know, I have your back, for example, you know, it's something that it's coming from this the same generation, all right? So it doesn't say that it comes from back bones. It's just something misunderstanding and misinterpretation. Misinterpretation, all right? Misunderstanding and misinterpretation. It doesn't say it is because everybody knew that from where sperm comes, okay? Okay, but everybody didn't know that. The people back then know that there was such a mammalian egg that hadn't been discovered until centuries later. But they didn't know the egg. So, you know, Muhammad wrote, and by Muhammad I don't necessarily believe there was a Muhammad, clearly this was a group effort. But whoever cobbled together the Quran believed that men were the only provider of the vital juice that became humans, and they just had to put it in the womb. They didn't realize it was an egg there. So they called it a clot of blood or they called it a drop of water. You know, they contradict themselves a few times, but then they also say that seminal fluid comes from between the backbone and the ribs, which is just bad anatomy, even for the time. Okay, I said that what it says, and it's up to people to, you know, to interpret it themselves. And wouldn't you think that if God had written this book that he could have done a better job that the argument in the 21st century, this wouldn't still be going to, he could have praised it a little bit better. Yeah, I don't, I have said it many times before as well. God could send a prophet today and split the moon and so on, but he decided to... He didn't need to send a prophet at all. He could have just spoken to all of us at the same time. There are a ton more questions. I gotta move to this. This is what I can ask as well. Why does the Quran claim that waters do not mix at estuaries and then in parentheses put 2553 and 5519? I think they're referring to verses or passages. They say because they definitely do mix, looks like God didn't know science. All right. This, I haven't been actually powering about such a things because for me, the most important is that how Quran and Islam guide me and guide humanity to live today and to guide us to a better world. Okay, so these are, and some people take it as they take videos from seas that they are not mixed to two different color of water that they don't mix. So this is, they say that this is a miracle because how Prophet Muhammad knew that the water doesn't mix and there are places that the water doesn't mix, okay? So for me, that's not a big issue that I have to reject those beautiful messages versus of Quran that says love one another and forgive people and how to live to reject all those verses just because maybe these, you know, where I don't understand what exactly it says, okay? You got it. This one coming in from, do you appreciate it? Pancake of Destiny says, Aaron, what beer do you drink now and how good is it? Right now I'm having a local brew. This is Lakewood Brewery Temptress. The Temptress is I think 10% ABV, but it's pretty low for me, but at least it's double digits. And it is an imperial stout. That's almost all I drink now. You got it. Man, Tom Christensen, I didn't see a question. Let me know in the live chat if you tag me with that 180 debate, I'll read it. Industrial Nerd says, Aaron, how amazing is bacon? I didn't know, are you a bacon fan? Bacon? Yeah.  Wow. And this one from Samir Farzane says, Aaron is wrong even at the time of Joseph in 16,000 BC. I think they mean 1600. Which is not the right time. They say they knew there are planers documented. Also, let's see. Yeah, that's not the right time. I don't know what the time of Joseph, 1600 BC. Yeah, that would be earlier than Hosea. And sorry, Hosea is one of the oldest books. The story of Joseph isn't that old.  It was, so they did, originally I said 16,000 instead of 1600. It wouldn't matter, 1600 is still too old. This one from Tanki says, Aaron, if you were starting a cult, what would you do differently from Islam to make it spread faster? Oh, I don't even wanna think about that. Because if I were to start a cult, I would be so rich so fast. This one coming in from Astrohead says, Aaron, I'm at a bar, can't watch it live but I'll catch the replay tomorrow. But I can imagine how this is heading, love the beer by the way. Thank you. I just would like to say very fast that after this debate, I'll go lives for those who would like to continue and ask questions, I go live on my channel, PerfectAva, the link is there so they can call in. And I would like to talk to you later again, Aaron, that would be great. All of the different suras that I was talking about in my compiled book, you can read all of my analyses of each sura already on my channel, aranraw.com. All right. Just look for the sura in question. Everything that you said, the Quran does not say, it actually does say, and I point them out. Okay.  When I read those, yes, versus- I look forward to your call. Thank you. And I hope that you don't take it as a debate because I don't see you as a bad person. Okay, it's not a debate for me. I don't see you as a bad person either. Yes, conversation, all right. I look at believers. I mean, I have to realize that everybody that is in the atheist movement, all my activist friends, they were all former believers. I was a reborn Christian once upon a time, way back when. I'm more neo-pagan, that was more of my religious tradition, but I know people who were former missionaries and seminary students and ministers and talk radio hosts and everything for Christian channels. And I don't hate believers. Believers are afflicted with something I can cure. Yeah, all right. You got it. These, coming in from, appreciate it. Jacob Grossek, oh, that reminds me, housekeeping stuff. Folks, both of our guests are linked in the description. And that includes if you're listening via the podcast, all of the debates at Modern Day Debate, the YouTube channel, end up on the podcast for Modern Day Debate, which you can find at virtually any podcast app. And we put our guest links there too. If you're watching via YouTube, open up a new tab and then you'll for sure remember to check out their links. You can put their links in that new tab and that way you can finish the rest of this debate as this next question is coming in from Jacob who says, perfect Dawah, it's probably frustrating to have other people tell you how to interpret the Quran. Are there reliable means or methods that provide independent verification that one's interpretation is correct? Yeah, because you have to put verses beside each other, Quranic verses, okay? If you have the right verses that you put them together and you can prove them, you can show that your interpretation is reliable, okay? Not just take one verse of Quran and say that's all, all right? So by giving the evidences from Quran itself, you can prove that you have the reliable interpretation. You got it, this one coming in from Zagros, Ozkan strikes again says, is if jins or demons in Islam are made of fire verse 15, 26 or 27, and they interact with humans verse 34 or 12, how come we never see them with our infrared detectors? All right, that's very, very, difficult subject because I believe myself that jinn are not on this planet. Jinn, there is no any direct verse that Quran says that they have been in contact with human. For me, jinn is unseen, okay? We don't see them, okay? So when we don't see them, we cannot have contact with them. So for me, jins is the name for aliens that God has other creatures, not only humans, but other creatures, but they are not here. We don't see them because they are not on this planet. They are on their planets, okay? And we don't have any contact with them. So I haven't seen any verse of Quran that say we have had direct contact with the jins, okay? You got it, this one coming in from do appreciate your questions. Zacchaeus says crucifixion didn't end with Christianity. It continued into Islam and Christianity. In fact, introduced it to Japan in the Sengoku period, which is around 1500 after 350 years without capital punishment. All right, and perhaps it's explanation, but I believe because I know that after Christianity came to Europe, it didn't stop right away definitely, but slowly, slowly, Christianity, by Christianity, it stopped in ancient Romans and Greeks. So I believe that that was the work of Christianity.  Let's see if you have better proof. Sam Harris's bulldog says, Aaron, would you please be willing to debate Cliff and Stuart again? That's one of our most popular debates is Aaron, you and T-Jump debating Cliff and Stuart. What do you think? Up for another? Cliff and Stuart couldn't maintain themselves. When they couldn't stay on topic and they were looking for, not a gotcha, they were looking for a moment of outrage. So if they would say something that was outrageous to the point where they say something that is so stupid, so wrong, that it would evoke an emotional response, and I replied accordingly, I would see a smile.  That's not a strategy. And so I have no interest in debating them because they're not being sincere. That's a problem. I mean, I debate a lot of people just like one time because the insincerity is what gets me.  They're all about trying to defend a lie by any means, even underhanded. This one coming in from realist realist says, does Aaron deny that to argue that we'll figure out X someday with no temporal restriction is to commit an escape to the future fallacy and to make an unfalsifiable claim since it can be repeated forever. No, I don't, it's not, not only do I not deny that, that is my argument against most prophecies. You got it? As Zach Rossozkin strikes again says, the Quran says people need to be flogged for adultery, perfect Dawah, and they started 24 verse two. Say they say, so you support Taliban women or Taliban when they flog women of Afghanistan for Zina, okay, perfect Dawah. I'm not supporting such a things. Actually, if you follow Quran, then it is impossible to flog anybody because this flogging was an alternative to that barbaric act of stoning because people were stoning adulterers to death. So Quran came with this flogging 100 lashes, but Quran put conditions that is impossible to meet these conditions. Four witnesses, you have to bring four witnesses who have seen this adultery, not even that they came out from a house or whatever, but you have to have seen the actual adultery and these four witnesses, they must complete 10 conditions that it's almost impossible that you can find a single of them because they must have never lied. They must have never forgotten their prayers and so on.  So you cannot find a single of them. So there are everything there that you cannot flag them because we are all sinners and the way Jesus, peace be upon him, also said, the one who has no sin can throw the first stone because we are all sinners. We cannot punish people. Punishment is only on God's side, is not on our side, okay? Because we are all always can be wrong and people can repent, okay? So we cannot punish people. That's, yes, if you follow it perfectly, Quran, then you cannot do that, yes. So what would you say are the two or three most Muslim countries in the world who follow Islam the closest? Which one? Only the two or three countries? There is no, none of them. I haven't seen any. Okay, well that explains a lot because we've had like Iran and Saudi Arabia and a few others that definitely did flog people. And you're saying that if you follow Quran, it's impossible to do. Yes, yes. You know what, Iran, Iranian. The Quran advocates it, but if you follow the Quran, then you can't do what the Quran advocates. I don't, I'm Iranian. Okay, I've been fighting Iranian regime in 43 years. This fascist ISIS regime was placed there by UK and USA and they have been supporting them until today.  They don't believe in anything. They believe in money. They worship money. So they do all these to oppress people.  So unfortunately, you have to know- So Raif bought away in Saudi Arabia. Okay. He made a Facebook post against Islam. He was sentenced to 10 years in prison. His stranger is wife from his wife for the rest of his life. And given, I think it was 40 lashes. Yeah, yeah. So Saudi Arabia doesn't follow Quran according to you? Let me read for you. Let me read for you verses of Quran. Quran chapter 107, verse one. Have you seen the one who denies the religion? That is the one who repulse the orphans, the orphan and does not encourage the feeding of the poor. So who to those who pray yet are not mindful of their prayers. Those who only show up and refuse to give even the simplest aid. Those in power there, they are living in gold, golden, you know, golden private jet and so on. So Quran says that they are the same like the one who disbelieve, who doesn't feed the poor and encourages, you know, support. So in the summer show off, they just show off. So in the summary, the 40 lashes that were given to Raif Badawi and the 10 years in prison. Yes, that's because Saudi Arabia does not follow Quran. No, that's not followed the Quran at all. OK, I just wanted one clear statement to that. Yes, not Iran, Iran, you know, I mean, I would disagree because the Quran actually advocates that, but I wanted to get your position on it clearly. No, no, I said that that was because if you understand Quran, then you know that you cannot punish anyone. OK, that rehabilitation that you were talking about. Yes, it is what we want. Oh, well, then again, you've got a contradiction because you've got a certain point in the Quran where it says, let those other people, let the unbelievers be as they are. Let, you know, God will sort them out.  OK, we will talk because that's another subject and it takes time because I think that James want to go on. Otherwise, we can do it on your channel. I would be more than happy, OK? Because I wouldn't mind I wouldn't mind to follow up because that way I can gather up all the verses and say the thing that the Quran never says, because it says it a lot. OK, I will I will even your own citation forward. You're the one verse that you cited for me. That verse said the thing that I said at the Fed that you said doesn't say your citation said it. I will contact you. OK. This one from Cameron Hall says, drinking camel urine can spread a disease called MERS that hyphen COV. So M E R S hyphen COV. Why would the prophet recommend it if he knew that he was what he was talking about? OK, that's a trash fabricated hadith. OK, and I believe that there are not only I believe that all Muslims believe that there are millions of fabricated hadithes, but unfortunately some Muslims who don't think they believe in those fabricated hadithes. These are something that pagans were doing. Unfortunately, in India, they drink cow urine. So perhaps in Arabia, they were drinking camel urine. So they wanted to keep this tradition. So they put these, you know, fabricated hadiths that say that Prophet Muhammad said, and that's not the entire hadith. The hadiths continues to show that Prophet Muhammad was a brutal barbaric man, OK, because he killed eight people in such a barbaric act for one person. Despite Quran says so many verses against such an act. And that's absolutely goes against Quran and any hadith. So I'm not a Quranic because people usually accuse me for being Quranic. So any hadith that goes against Quranic verses is fabricated, OK, that's all. This one coming in from do appreciate it. Balthazar two to eight says and they're quoting you, Muji, according to them. They say that you say, quote, Jesus didn't get everything right. But my religion, seven hundred ish years later, did they say, how is it any more predictive than Mormonism in 1830? If all of the explanations are equally valid, they all are equally incorrect. All right, I'm not going to discuss Christianity and other religions. OK, because here I'm just to defend Islam. So I'm not I have to say more Christian. Yes, I haven't said that anything, you know, against Christianity. And I will not because I don't want to hurt any brother or sister, Christian brothers and sisters. OK, so I'm not going to say anything against Christianity or other religions. Yes, Jacob, I would. I would suggest that you might want to consider yourself a Christian, because you seem more in line with them than with Islam. OK, that's a very strange idea about what Islam says. I've heard that many times, many Christians. I'm not surprised. Somebody is somebody in the chat. I don't I'm sorry, James, I want to interject. So somebody in the chat suggesting wondered whether I attack Judaism just as harshly as I attack Christianity or Islam. I have to point out that the vast majority of my scriptural attacks have been against the Hebrew Bible. So the Jews actually get it worse than anybody else. You got it. And this one from Jacob Grossek says, are in is there any amount of psychologically satisfying ideas or examples of people whose lives were improved by Islam that would result in convincing evidence for Islam? No, because it's it's fundamentally incorrect. If you adopt a belief and you can adopt many different beliefs that can completely change your lives.  You can adopt a new political ideology. That the fact that your life changed for the adoption of some new obsession has nothing to do with whether that obsession is true. In this in this case, we're talking about a collection of doctrines. Is the doctrine true? Now, if you live by this doctrine or you think you do, but you're not really, you're living by some romanticized version of it, then you will pretend that your adoption of this belief will have it has a positive effect. But it doesn't mean that what the thing that you're pretending to believe is real or that it's factually accurate. You got it. And this one coming in from tropes says, Orrin, you keep calling out lies. This presupposes an objective truth. That's correct. And we have an objective truth. And I already said what it was at the beginning of the show. They say, oh, you predicted this question. Well, they say, where does truth come from in your worldview? What is your foundation for moral right or wrong? And truth or false? Once again, the truth is what the facts are, what we can show to be true, not whatever else we might assume or imagine beyond or instead of that. And as far as morality, I like to default back to Scott Clifton's classic video on a treatise on morality, where we know that a given act is immoral or wrong if it. And I don't remember how he how all of he how he phrased it. But if it causes unnecessary harm or suffering or whatever, we understand objectively, everybody everywhere understands that we should not unnecessarily cause harm or suffering to some other person. We know that that's objectively immoral. So I don't understand why there's a difficulty in that. When we look at when we have an understanding of what is moral and what is not, it's easy to take that standard that we all understand and then apply it to God. And especially the Abrahamic God comes out as evil. You got it. This one coming in from Zagros Ozkens strikes against as Moody's Islamic utopia is equivalent to Smurf village. I don't understand that. I don't either. I hated the Smurf, so I don't know. This one. OK, I can't answer because Zagros, I know him and he always say that I have to say that this because something hasn't happened doesn't mean that, for example, the society we have today in Sweden would be, you know, such a utopia for people hundreds of years ago. But today it has happened. OK.  OK, you are like a baby in the womb that you don't know beyond that womb. There is another world. OK, so for you, maybe it is just imagination. But for me and according Koran, that's going to happen. And it's a promise from God that is going to happen one day. We are going to live in peace and love one another and share everything with each other. Yes. This one from some year Farse and says, Arendt, you heard the Hedith about the unbeliever lady whom Prophet Muhammad told his companions went to heaven for a starving dog. She fed water in her shoe, right? I have not heard that Hedith. You got it. Is this one? I haven't heard it. From Asri Schizophrenia says, Sir Arendt, you said there is no benefit in torture or punishment, but another way of looking at it is the criminals wanted things that are bad. Therefore, Allah is only giving it to them. What is your feedback? Nobody wants, you know, well, you know, same person wants to be, you know, tortured, certainly not mercilessly, certainly not for eternity. You know, and people will come up with justifications for the evil that they do. They'll know that it's evil because we don't we know what is objectively evil, but people will often come up with excuses to justify it. And those justifications very often come with victim blaming or with religious righteousness that that person had it coming anyway. And people who have a personal God are especially bad at this. So when you have somebody to when you send somebody to prison for life and the option is the death penalty, they think they have a personal relationship with God, their personal magic imaginary friend has forgiven them for whatever they've done. And they're their version of God, their imaginary friend that they're calling God understands why they were justified in whatever terrible thing that they did.  If they can get the death penalty, then they'll be right away associated with God and they'll be in heaven where God has forgiven them and offered them great promises. So that's why the death penalty is ineffective as a deterrent. It's a way of escaping the sentence of life imprisonment. You got it. This one coming in from do appreciate your question. M Doug says, does Surah and Nisa 434 apply in heaven? Or can the wives hit back? I didn't understand. I could read it if you'd like. It says in the Quran that you can beat your wife. I know it doesn't say so severely. But the question the question is asking is whether the wife can hit back. OK, the thing is that the Quran doesn't say that he to your wife. OK, it just says it does. It doesn't say it doesn't say. Yes, it does.  I can read for you and it doesn't make sense for for me that such a let me read for you. Such a God that says beat your wife in chapter six, 65 verse six, says that let the woman who are undergoing a waiting period. This is a woman that you have divorced. OK, live in the same manner as you live yourself in accordance with your means and do not harass them with a view to making their lives a misery. So God tells me to treat a woman that I maybe hate. I just have divorced and I have to live with her three months.  No, chapter 434 says that after the two steps, leave her. And chapter 435 says, and in case you fear split between the two, then sent forth a judge from his family and a judge from her family in case they both are willing to act righteously. So it's about both of them, not one of them. I love that you're not addressing the question at all. The passage where the Quran does advocate physical discipline for wives. Does it also permit that the wife can hit back? The answer is no. You know, it's no. I know it's no. The audience knows the answer is no. The answer is not is never says to hit your wife. The answer is that the Quran does that. No, definitely does say that you can physically discipline your wife. And no, she is not allowed to hit back. That's a backward Islam. Chapter 30 verse 21 says an amount. His signs is this that he created for you mates from among yourself that you may find trans quality in them. And he has put love and mercy between you.  Come on. OK, so don't please. Don't I'm sorry that your book contradicts itself so often contradict. It's yes, it definitely does. It is it is wrong understanding. And I say for you, chapter three, give me about a month, give me about a month to compile my notes for the book into a single unit. And then I can show you all of the different all of the different verses that contradict everything you just said so that everything you said that it doesn't say, it actually does say, including your own citation earlier today. All right, this one coming in from M. Duh, we got that one. JCXXX says who will win the World Cup for debaters and the moderator? I have no idea. What are you guys? I don't know. I don't watch. I think Argentina's in it, right? I don't know who is in the final. I think it's today, right? I have no idea. That's sports tomorrow. I don't pay attention. Oh, it's tomorrow. Thank you. You're right. It's France and Argentina. I because nobody believes me. Does it I feel like I look like messy?  The Argentina player. So I'm rooting for Argentina. Maybe I don't look like it's my imagination. But anyway, we were like brothers. Notion Slaves says, why do you waste your time on some opponent? Let's see. Making up complete opposite of mainstream and historical Islam. So I think that they're accusing you, Aaron, of making up the complete opposite of mainstream, historical Islam. Or I'm not talking about mainstream, historical Islam. I'm talking about what the Koran actually says. I don't know. Everything that I said that the Koran actually says, it actually does say. And I do have a third book coming out where I detail all of these things. So anybody in your chat that wants to pretend that it doesn't say that, you'll see where it exactly does say that over and over and over and over again. This maybe I was even wrong. They say, could this have actually been for Mootie? Or I mean, perfect Dawa. They say, why do you waste your time on some opponent? What I'm trying to say is maybe this is meant for Aaron. Namely, they're maybe saying that perfect Dawa is making up the complete opposite of mainstream and historical. They didn't tell me. I don't know who is for this one coming in. But he did say that you can't follow the Koran and flog prisoners. And we've seen how many different Muslim countries do, in fact, do that. So as I said, the majority of Muslims don't follow the Koran, according to him. No, they don't do that because, unfortunately, they just abuse Islam and for their own power. Chapter three, verse seven says, it is he who has sent down to you. Oh, Muhammad, the book in it are verses that are precise. They are the foundation of the book and others, unspecific. As for those whose heart is corrupted, they will follow that of it, which is unspecific. So it means that if you don't understand it, you don't have to follow those unspecific verses like chapter four, verse 33. Desiring to create confusion and their own interpretation. And no one knows it's true interpretation, except Allah and those fear in knowledge.  Because if you are not a Muslim, you were interpreted in the way that you want to create confusion. No, but what if you don't want to create confusion? What if you're like me and you want to make sure to remove all the all of the confusion that the Koran has written into it? We want to eliminate confusion, have a clear understanding. Then you're going to you're going to read multiple translations so that you get you so you have an idea of what they're all talking about.  I got a better understanding of Islam than many Muslims do. This is what I'm talking about. OK, let me fast. Koran chapter 43 verse five, strike is ignore.  Koran chapter four verse 101, strike is trouble. So there are many, many verses in Quran that use the same word, the strike, but it means something else. So just don't take one. So whenever the Koran lies, we find a contradiction to that lie. OK, you say you just ignore that it said that and pretend that it said something else. No, Quran said that those filming knowledge understand the true interpretation means that they don't contact God. Wait, wait, wait. Those those who fear knowledge, fear those who are fear in knowledge, fear. What's the knowledge? I don't understand what you say.  What is fear, man? Only not a lot says only God and those fear in knowledge, those who have knowledge, good knowledge, OK, filming knowledge. Only they understand how they understand. They don't call God, but they put the verses beside each other and they understand it. They don't say, oh, it is contradiction. No, they say it is completely. So if you understand it, explain this verse, explain it. Then you know it is a contradiction. And it doesn't matter how much poisoning of the well or other logical fallacies that Quran tries to use. We understand that those are logical fallacies and contradictions. As I said, you have to be first, first Muslim to understand that. You don't have to be Muslim because that's that's one of the many things you've gotten wrong tonight. You don't need to be a Muslim. You don't need to believe the nonsense to understand what the nonsense said. All right, that's what Quran says that you have to be. I know the Quran says a lot of things that are not true. But that's just one of them.  OK, to interpret it, you have to be a Muslim to interpret it in such a way that you still believe it. Well, then you've got to have something going wrong in your head. But you don't need to you don't need to be a believer to understand what the Quran is saying. No, but the Quran, you know, it's better if you're not a believer to understand the Quran. And I would say that reading the Quran, especially if you're not if you don't read it in the original Arabic, you read it in a translation to your home language. And if you read it with a panel of people who understand it, then you're not going to be a Muslim anymore. OK, I said what I said this one coming in from. Do you appreciate your question? Realist, realist, we don't have too much time left, folks. I'm going to try to read through as many as we can. But we're going to wrap up pretty shortly here. Realist, realist says, can Aaron provide empirical evidence for a neurological state of quote unquote, non-belief in God's that is distinguishable from belief in the non-existence of God's? Yes. This one coming in from. Let's see. Shout out to James and the gang. Defreak says, also please tell Aaron to unmute me. All right. Got you. Do we noted? Asri Schizophrenia. I think we got that. Let me jump over to these questions. Oh, wait, we did have a couple of other ones coming in. In the meantime, let me read just a couple of these that had come in earlier. Thanks for your membership support, folks. And by the way, hey, if you haven't yet, if you enjoyed this debate, hit that like button. That really does mean a lot. We appreciate your support. Pakistan's Mango says, question to perfect Dawa is having a blue beard, halal. Can you remind us what halal, H-A-L-A-L means in Islam? I didn't answer blue beard. Blue beard. So like, Aaron's died beard. I mean, I think that's died. But is it... No, it's natural. It's always been this way. Oh, okay. Is halal a sin or is it like unconventional or what is that? No, if it doesn't harm anybody, then it is not a sin. If it doesn't harm anybody, I don't think it harms anybody. Yeah. And there's a whole lot of halal that isn't halal then. Mr. Morpheus says, Muslims collecting fake hadiths, Sahih ain't Sahih. And then says, is Dawa saying Muslims are liars? I don't say, there are, I mean, there are people who call themselves, they are liars. They are killers. They are murderers and so on. So don't think that everybody is Muslim. As they, even Quran has a chapter, chapter, Hippocrates says that there were even people around Prophet Muhammad himself who were, you know, saying that they are Muslims, they are believers, but they were lying. Yes, there are liars, but not all Muslims are liars, of course. Yeah. This one from Zagros? You have a choice between deceivers and deceived. Zagros Ozkan says, why be a member of a Marxist N.E.K. terrorist group? All right. Are you part of this terrorist group, Muji? Perfect idea.  The thousands of European, you know, parliamentarian, American senators just few days ago, many of the senators and the, you know, congressmen have been supporting my organization. And this organization was in U.S. and Europe terrorist list. Okay. A court in Europe, a court in London and a court in Washington asked these countries to come with a single evidence that this group is a terrorist organization. They couldn't come with a single evidence in many, many years. And then in 2009, a court in London forced the U.K. to remove M.E.K. from terrorist list. A court in Washington in 2012 forced U.S. government to remove M.E.K. from terrorist list because we are simply fighting for freedom.  His deputy, what was his name? Mike Pence, his foreign minister, Mike Pompeo, they support my organization. How can they support a terrorist organization?  That's why of course there will be a lot of, you know, they try to demonize my organization, which they have done it in many, but fortunately, those clouds are going away. They have gone, you know, through the courts. If you have evidence, you should come to Washington court. You should come to the London court, okay? Not that all these countries, not a single, you know, evidence, yes. This one from Joshua De King says, Perfect Dawah, do you pay zakat or support financially any Sunni mosque or organization? If so, then you support the true Sunni Islam that you don't like. No, I'm not Sunni, I'm not Shia. I believe in, you know, whatever is right, I believe in Christianity, whatever is right in Christianity in Judaism. Oh, I didn't realize you believe in whatever is right. I didn't know you were an atheist. No, no, no. I believe in everything is right. Okay, so I'm not a Sunni, I'm not a Shia. And I guess I support my organization, okay? Because I believe that they are doing a great job to bring the biggest enemy of mankind in Iran. So I'm supporting them. Today I was in a demonstration in minus five, but so I've been fighting this regime 43 years. And if I get some money, I help it, I give it to my organization because I believe that that goes the best way. Then these mosques that a backward Mullah is just using that to fool people. You're talking so softly, I can barely hear you, but this one coming in from Balthazar 228 says, with Islam, as it was written in 700, being purported to be true, does this qualify as an ancient day debate? I'd never get old. It has a shelf life that lasts for eternity. M. Doug says, how can Allah be infinitely just and infinitely merciful at the same time? I didn't understand what he meant. I think they mean like if Allah is infinitely merciful then why the, my guess is they're maybe talking about- Well, the obvious contradiction is the existence of hell as a concept. That's I think what they were getting at. That's what I was gonna guess. They have been discussing that Allah is also just. So he's not going to allow that, as he says, okay? And then another place he says that, didn't you know that Allah, the entire universe belong to Allah and he can forgive or punish whomever he will. So we don't know how long he keep them and who he will punish and so on. So this is up to him. And this is, we will know that after this life. We don't know that today, okay? So he decide and I'm not going to interfere in that. This one from Mojo says, I have a short question. Are in Ra, why does the Quran say we and refer Allah mostly as being the Quran is talking about? Did angels talk- The Quran is written in Queens English where the God refers to themselves in the plural. We are not amused. Gotcha. And this one coming in from Notion slaves says, unironically, the corrupt person interpreting Quranic verses corruptly and ignoring every single Islamic scholar is this perfect quote unquote, Dawa guy. Okay, that's actually not every, it's a lie as well that every, you know, scholar interpreted in that way.  So, and they were afraid to go against the mainstream because they would lose their job perhaps. So don't please say that every, you know, scholars. Now there are scholars today that they go against such an interpretation, all right? This one coming in from Zagros Ozkan strikes again. He says, MEK's own website says this is the group that they alleged to be a terrorist group that they say you're a part of. They say says that they are Marxist Muslims. Also, all Iranians know that MEK killed its own members who wanted to leave and civilians as well, perfect Dawa. Okay, I said that if he had such evidences, he should come to Washington court. I can give you the date. It was 2012 that Washington court didn't get a single evidence from Hillary Clinton. It was, I think it was spring 2012 that Washington court wrote a letter to Hillary Clinton and said that we gave you 180 days to come with a single evidence to the court, but you disappeared 600 days. So we give you time until end of October, 2012. If you don't come with a single evidence, we will remove it ourselves. And Hillary Clinton wrote a letter to the court and said that, oh, I'm busy. I have these, I have that.  So she waited, waited. At the last day, she removed MEK from terrorist list because she didn't have a single evidence to come to the court. So Azri, if you had a single evidence, you and Iranian fascist regime, you should come to the court and present those evidences. Even there was a London court as well. So another thing is that about Marxist if we believe in equality, it doesn't mean that we are Marxist. We believe in equality. And yes, the enemies, they call us Marxist Islamists. But we believe in equality. And that's in Quran that one day, the entire planet will leave equal. You got it. With that, I wanna keep our promise to our speakers. They're very busy. We're gonna get him out of here on time. Wanna say a huge thank you to both Perfect Dawa and Aran Ra. It's been a true pleasure to have you gentlemen. Thank you very much. I just remind once again, I go live right now. And for those who would like to contact me every Saturday, I go live as well. So please join me and we continue to talk there. And Aran, I will contact you for their discussion if that's okay. Thank you. Thank you for being here, Aran. Take care. And James, thank you for this opportunity. Thank you. Thank you. My pleasure. I'll be back in just a moment folks with a really quick post-credits scene. Letting you know about upcoming debates. So stick around for that. And thanks for your support, folks. If you haven't yet, hit that like button. We're already up to 323. Appreciate that support. And with that, I'll be back in just a moment. Ladies and gentlemen, thrilled to have you here. I am going to pull up on screen in just a moment. As I am opening Zoom back up, I wanna say we appreciate you being here. It's always a true pleasure. My dear friends, whether you be Muslim, atheist, Christian, you name it. We are glad that you are here. And so, my dear friends, I've got to tell you a couple of things in particular. Let me just readjust here. Da-da-da. If it's your first time. My name is James Coons. I'm the host here at Modern A Debate. And I wanna say, we do appreciate you being here.  Wanna say hello to you there in the old chat as well as if you're able to chat, because we put subscribers only mode on, just to remind you that we have future debates coming up. And wanna say thank you for subscribing. For real, so I wanna say, I see you there in the old live chat. Travis Pratt, thanks for subscribing. Thanks for being a subscriber. Dark Matter, appreciate that. Akeel, thanks for coming by. Thanks for being a subscriber. As well as KiaStar67. Thanks for being with us. And thanks for subscribing. Thanks for your support, folks. Our goal here is to provide a neutral platform so that everybody can make their case on a level playing field. That's our vision. And that's what we are absolutely determined to do as we continue expanding. We are thrilled, you guys. We just hit 88,000 subscribers yesterday, which is huge. And we wanna say thank you for subscribing, including Jacques Palomir. Let me know if I'm pronouncing it right. Thanks for subscribing. Banksy style live. Thanks for being a subscriber. Tropes, thanks for being a subscriber. Living Room Speakers, long time viewer. Thanks for being a subscriber in Dark Matter. Thanks for subscribing. That support means more than you know as we are absolutely determined. Believe me, join us while we are small because our vision is to continue to grow and our story is just beginning. We are just a baby channel compared to where we are going, my dear friends. So join us while we're young and small as we have big aspirations as it's important to us. It fits, namely the vision that I just described of providing a level playing field for everybody to make their case fits with our values. And our values are in particular, one, we've already said it, we want things to be fair for people. We wanna give them their fair shot no matter what walk of life they're from. Also, we are willing to cover the topics and host the individuals that might be controversial, that aren't allowed in other places, whether it be mainstream news that doesn't allow it or in a lot of cases you don't hear both sides because it's a channel that only has one side. We don't think there's anything wrong with that. However, our goal is we want to provide, you could say, even the most controversial of people and ideas, a platform as we truly want to tolerate everybody and giving them their fair chance. And some people might say, well, James, wait a minute, let's not go too far. I mean, if you let the Muslims or the atheists or the Christians or the politically far left or the politically far right, if you let those people on, it might be dangerous. They're gonna spread their ideology that might be dangerous or harmful. And that's where our third value comes in, in particular, competition. We believe there is a survival of the fittest ideas, namely, the best ideas will survive through these competitions, through these, you could say, tournaments of debates. We believe that the cream will rise to the top, that the best arguments will win out. Let the chips fall where they may, let a thousand flowers bloom, the best ideas will win out. And that's the value. That's the beauty of competition being of value is a lot of people think, like, I don't know, it's bad that there's competition. Well, is it bad? I mean, think about it. If you think that an idea or a view is harmful, are you just gonna be like, well, I don't wanna compete against that harmful idea because I don't wanna be competitive. I wanna be passive. The idea is if you really think, one, that you believe that your position is actually the best for people, why would you not try to be more persuasive? Because that's all what we really mean when we say competition is good in debates is you just wanna be more persuasive. So I don't think there's anything wrong with that.  It's like, I'm bad because I might think that some view is harmful out there and I wanna be more persuasive in showing people that that view is harmful. I actually think that's pretty reasonable. I actually think that's morally responsible and maybe even morally obligatory because shouldn't it be the case that if there are these harmful ideologies out there, we have to rise up and defeat them through debate because otherwise people go underground and you think like, oh, they'll just go away. No, no, no, I don't think they do. I think they just go underground and they scheme and then eventually you have some people that run into them one day and they're not prepared. They're caught with their pants down because they don't know what the arguments are from these allegedly dangerous groups and so they can't defeat them. They're actually like, oh, like a deer in headlights. They don't know what to say because they've never heard or been exposed to their stuff. That's the beauty of a debate channel that allows controversial ideas is people are able to see the refutations of these ideas that they maybe normally wouldn't have because a lot of channels try to push ideas or ideologies underground. I don't think it works. I don't think it's a sustainable strategy when at least in the United States and a lot elsewhere around the world, people have the freedom still to say what they want. They're not gonna get arrested if they try to speak to you in person about it or whatever it is, so you have to be prepared. But I wanna say thank you to more people in the old live chat. Thanks for your support. Megan Satanus, glad to have you back. Free naturalists, thanks for all your support of the channel. Thanks for being a subscriber as well. Industrial Nerd says, when and what is the next debate? Glad you asked. Next Monday, T-Jump and Hake of the Hake Report. Debate whether or not the great reset is real. You don't wanna miss that one. It's gonna be a juicy one, a political one. That'll be fun, we can mix it up. We haven't done that topic in a long time. We're gonna take it easy. We got a lot of Muslim debates recently, so we're gonna give it a little break. We love these debates, they're interesting, they're important, but it's true. Sometimes it's like, wow, we've had a lot of those, so we're gonna mix it up.  We've also, let me look at the schedule. I'm currently working on setting up one on Is Diversity Good with Hunter Avalon and Kai from Kai Clips, the YouTube channel, as well as Can We Trust NASA? Between Mark Reid and Nathan Thompson. That's a work in progress, there's no date for that, but both debaters, or at least Mark Reid, has expressed interest. I think I can persuade Nathan, trust me. But this one coming in from, oh, and in terms of other future debates, we might have a debate on A, B, O, R, T, I, O, N. That might happen to tag team at the end of the month as well as a debate on veganism, which we haven't done in like years. Isn't that crazy? It's been a long time. Daniel Hukikachu, I've reached out to about a particular debate. That one is in the works. I've gotta run it by his potential opponent, JF. So we've got a lot of juicy debates that we're working on setting up. Thanks for being a subscriber, said informatique, as well as realist, realist. Thanks for being a subscriber. Thanks for your support. 1-337-drummer-nate.  And, amazing. We appreciate all of your support, folks, not just in the way of subscribing, although that is appreciated, of course, but also, hey, a lot of people, I check on the stats behind these videos oftentimes. And one of the main ways that we grow is through people sharing. So we wanna say thank you to all of you who have already shared these videos. If you believe in the vision, you're like, hey, I like that. I identify with that. That's something I believe in, namely providing a neutral platform so that everybody can make their case on a level playing field. And if you agree with our values, namely, we want things to be fair, because that's more official. But second of all, you might say, I also agree the idea of allowing controversial topics or figures. That's our second value. You could say freedom. People can say what they want. But third, you might say, oh, in competition as well, those are our three main values. Those are what we are convinced are going to make a positive impact in YouTube. In particular, we believe that YouTube deserves a better class of debate channel. And we're gonna give it to them here at Moderated Debate. So we wanna say thank you for all of your support. And if you agree with that vision and those values, you can click that share button, whether you're listening via mobile right now or if you are listening via computer, if you click on the share button, you can share it, whether it be discord groups that you might be a part of, you can share it through another example would be, if you're in a Twitter group, like a thread where you talk to people. I am. We share jokes with each other. We share other weird stuff. You could share it in a group like that. You could share it. You could post it on a Facebook page that likes these topics. That really does help. So we do appreciate all the people who do share means a lot seriously. And it really does make a difference because that third party, you could say attestation of saying like, hey, no, like Moderated Debate is actually good. It's fun. That really does go a long way. Cause if I share it somewhere, they're like, well, James, you run Moderated Debate, like it doesn't have as much credibility. But if it's a third party, someone neutral, like a bystander who's like, no, like actually I enjoy this channel. It's pretty cool. That really does go a long way. So we appreciate your guys' support. Mr. Kreen, and thanks for coming by. I see you there. Appreciate your support. Thanks for being a subscriber. Says, let's see. Says, I could say it's the more sensational topics, clickbait, but I do like the unpopular opinions debate category. Appreciate that feedback. Thanks so much, Mr. Kreen. As well as TGFKA Trictor. Thanks for coming by. Thanks for being a subscriber. Thelron Smith, thanks for all of your support. As well as Lieutenant Gregory Stevens. Says, I was busy arresting lewd and lascivious individuals. Well, we appreciate your service and we appreciate you being here in the old live chat. Thanks for being a subscriber. And, amazing. V. Thomas, thanks for your support. We appreciate that. Thanks for subscribing. And JJ, the trap extraordinaire. Thanks for being a subscriber. Seriously, that means a lot.  So, I saw you recommending. You were saying, Adam, he is a debater. Says, Adam Green versus Christianity. I am open to hosting that. So, believe me, totally open to it. And I'm gonna reach out to Adam Green. It's just been a matter of finding him a good opponent. So, I am working on that. And thanks for your feedback. As well as, Joe the Toe. Thanks for coming by. Appreciate you. How wow. Am I saying it right? Let me know. Thanks for being here. Appreciate you subscribing. It means a lot. My dear friends, we are excited about the future. Big stuff coming up. And, Slycee Slycer says, can I have an extra special? Amazing. Yes, you can. It's gonna be amazing. Kilo Elvetango says, amazing. I couldn't agree more. Thanks for being a subscriber. Appreciate it. Francis Capell says, love modern day debate. Always listening. Thanks so much, Francis. That means more than you know. Appreciate that. It's gonna be amazing. We got a big bright future. And we wanna say thank you guys for all of your support. I love you guys.  Appreciate all of your support. Thanks for being a subscriber, Tanki. And thanks for your kind words. Mr. Kreen says, looking forward to a winters, to a winter of good modern day debate shows. Thanks, James. Thanks so much. That really does mean a lot. And we were working on that. We've been kind of going a little bit slow lately. We have been doing, you could say fewer debates the last few weeks. That's just because the conference took a ton of time and energy. So I've had to catch up with like personal life grading and all that. So we will though be starting to go like at a higher pace in January. It's just a matter of, like I said, that conference that we had. Which if you haven't seen the videos from our conference recently, we did our own modern day debate, DebateCon. That's our conference that we do. And it was huge. It's a debate conference where we have both political and religion debates. And it was monstrous. If you haven't seen it, Aran was in one of the debates. That was against Daniel Hukikachu, a Muslim fellow. That was a great debate. Seriously, one of our best. As well as Matt DeLente against Kenny Boemer, a Muslim debater as well. If you haven't seen those debates, check them out folks. They're awesome. They're just right here on the channel. And Industrial Nerd says, you got a PayPal asking for the other guy. My PayPal email as moderndaydebate at gmail.com. So I appreciate your asking. Let's see, Industrial, I'll put that modern day debate. And that's also my email where you can reach me at. So do appreciate that. All of your support means a ton folks. Thanks for all those shares. Thanks for subscribing. If you haven't hit that like yet, we do appreciate that. Hit that like button on the way out. And wanna say thanks for all of your loves. Seriously, I love you guys.  I hope you have a great rest of your day or night depending on what part of the world you're from. And keep sifting out the reasonable from the unreasonable. We'll see you at the next debate, which is this coming Monday. Thanks everybody.