Okay. Thank you everybody. Welcome back. Thank you for coming back so promptly after lunch. We're going to proceed straight away.  We will, as usual, get to as many speakers as we possibly can. We're enjoying all the wide range of interventions we're getting, so we really appreciate your willingness to be here to participate and to share your views with us. And this next session is a very important one, and one, as you heard earlier from the Executive Director, is a focus here at the Agency right now, including a new report that will come out just a few weeks' time in conjunction with our friends in the G20 presidency of Brazil. And it's designing policies to maximize positive social impacts. And I know it's going to be very interesting and informative session. And to Chair, we're delighted to have one of our close friends from the G20 presidency who's actually chairing the energy transition process of Brazilians. I must say, excellent and inspiring G20 presidency, so Mariana, it's a delight to have you here. So I'm going to hand you over now to Mariana Assisi, who's the Special Advisor to the Brazilian Minister of Mines and Energy. Thank you, Brian. Good afternoon, everyone. I welcome you all to the third session of the IEA Global Summit on People-Centered Clean Energy Transition. It is a great pleasure to chair this important session. First of all, on behalf of the Brazilian Minister of Mines and Energy, Alexandre Silva, I would like to congratulate the International Energy Agency for relaunching the Global Commission on People-Centered Clean Energy Transitions, which he is honored to co-chair. The timing couldn't be better to resume discussions on this critical topic. Since December 1st, 2023, Brazil has been leading the G20 presidency and we remain fully committed to achieving significant advancements in the energy transition agenda within the world's 20 largest economies. Under the leadership of President Lula, we have established an ambitious delivery agenda with the fight against hunger and poverty as one of its primary pillars. The topic of energy transition has gained even more relevance after COP28 and during our G20 presidency, we have been actively working to deliver more tangible results in this area. Following this directive, we defined the social dimension of energy transition as one of the priorities for the G20's energy transition working group and we hope that the outcomes of this work will also serve as a foundation for COP30, which is going to be the COP of just transition, as said by President Lula, to be held in the heart of our Amazon forest in Belen. We are thrilled to have IA support on the social dimension of energy transition agenda during our G20 presidency and we fully endorse this global commission and other related initiatives such as the Clean Cook in Africa Summit, which we are also keen to level up the results in the ETWD on G20 agenda. We have no doubt that we are facing an unprecedented global challenge and that each country or region has different socio-economic realities and cultural contacts to consider on their energy transition pathways. We have yet, even amid the climate emergency we face, we must ensure that the energy transition is just and inclusive. Depending on the political choices associated with this process, we may continue to reproduce traditional development models that widen inequalities and deepen vulnerabilities, which is undesirable. We believe that the energy transition cannot be understood solely as a process of technological replacement. We must ensure that the energy transition is a new model of economic and social development to ensure that no one is left behind. We must effectively put people at the center of the policymaking related to energy transition. We need to establish effective ways to combat energy poverty. We need to create mechanisms to reduce the cost of new technologies and ensure access for all segments of the population. Public policy decisions related to energy transition must also take into account issues of gender, race and ethnicity. We need to promote social dialogue and stakeholder engagement in decision-making processes. We must ensure decent and quality jobs for our workers and prepare our workforce for the energy transition. We must respect the rights of indigenous peoples and traditional communities offering social protection mechanisms whenever possible. Last but not least, we must mitigate the negative impacts caused by energy projects, including clean technologies and mining while increasing the benefits and social compensation for affected communities. Recognizing our responsibility as both the D-20 presidency and co-chair of this IEA Global Commission, we call on all members to actively participate in the discussions on this topic so that we can advance with tangible results at the end of this new cycle of activities. We can afford to waste time. We must act decisively to ensure we make collective progress towards meeting the agreements reached at COP28 in Dubai. Therefore, it is with great pleasure that we offer to host the next meeting of the Global Commission on People-Centered Clean Energy Transitions in October 2024 in the city of Foz de Guassau alongside the D-20 Energy Transitions Ministerial Meeting. I'm also glad to share here with you today some of the Brazilian experiences by bringing the social dimension to our energy transition. Our country has successful public policies in the energy sector aimed at low-income population and vulnerable communities. In 2003, we created the Luz Paratodes Program, Light for All, in a free translation, which aims to ensure universal access to electricity throughout the country. Since its inception, the program has benefited over 17 million people across 26 Brazilian states, the majority of them located in the Amazon Forest Region. Last year, the program was relaunched to HALO for off-grid solutions, and with these, we expect to reach over 2 million people by 2026. In 2023, last year, we launched the Energias da Amazônia, Energies of the Amazon Program, which aims to reduce diesel usage for energy generation in almost 2,200 isolated systems located in the Amazon Region. With this made investments of 5 billion reais, we plan to gradually replace these small-term power plants with renewable solutions and grid connections, reducing GAG emissions, and benefiting 3 million people living in the region with a more stable power supply. We are also about to launch the National Energy Transition Policy, which will establish, for the first time in our country, the National Forum for Energy Transition, which is going to be the space for social dialogue and stakeholder engagement, including representatives from civil societies, traditional communities, labor force, energy consumers, and social movements in the design of the energy transition policies in the country. Finally, we are also working on the design of the National Strategy to Combat Energy Poverty which will serve as the basis for advancing new forms in public policies in our country, such as clean cooking. In this session, we would like to hear you all from all the different elements of policy design that is essential to ensuring that the benefits of clean energy transitions are maximized and fairly distributed amongst all segments of the population. To further these discussions, joined by energy ministers, high-level government and private sector representatives, as well as key international organizations and non-governmental organizations, we kindly welcome as many contributions as possible, and it is a pleasure to have you here in this occasion. So let's keep the discussions as open and dynamic as possible. And before moving to the discussions, I would like to invite a few speakers to set the scene for today's discussion. So without that said, I would like to open the floor to Diego Pardo, Minister of Energy of Chile, to share his keynote Perspectives on Chile's leadership in designing clean energy transition policies. Minister Pardo, the floor is yours. Thank you so much, Madam Chair. So in my five minutes, I would like to talk about subsidies to residential consumers. And this is a subject that is often criticized because subsidies do not provide signals for efficient use of energy, and they oftentimes involve fiscal risk to governments. But they play a significant role in the transition when the time is right, and timing is the essence of success here. In Chile, we have been rather successful in providing a regulatory setting for the increase of wind and solar. About less than 1% of our injections to electricity matrix were wind and solar in 2010. Now it's about a 30%. So we have increased a lot, and this has been done without subsidies. But what's the challenge we are facing now at due to COVID pandemic struggles in international commerce and due to the invasion of Ukraine? Hydrocarbons became hugely expensive in a very short period of time. And we are going to depend for, we still depend about 40% of our electricity matrix is produced based on hydrocarbons that we import. And this is going to be for the foreseeable future this way for at least a couple of decades. And this increase, this shock in the prices of hydrocarbons forces us to raise electricity bills. And the problem we are facing now is that in order to keep constructing windmills, to keep constructing solar farms, we are facing increasing opposition from citizens that say, why should I have to bear the problems associated with windmills in my backyard if when I see my electricity bills it only goes up and up and up. And that's where subsidies play a key role in order to buy us time in order to shield low income citizens from these shocks in the oil market, in the coal market, in the natural gas market. If subsidies are well conceived, if there is a de-escalation plan for these programs, they can play a significant role in order to isolate low income consumers from the shocks. That comes with what's happening with hydrocarbons. And this case, this is the case of Chile, it's probably going to be the case of many countries throughout the world for two fundamental things. Renewable clean energy uses a lot of land. Unlike fossil fuels, unlike coal power plants, unlike diesel power plants that are concentrated in a very small space, wind farms, solar farms, they use a lot of space. You need a thousand square miles in order to deploy this technology. And that brings, that comes with a wide range of citizens to which you need to bring together in order to push for this effort. And on the other hand, oil prices, natural gas prices, coal prices are going to suffer by these contingencies all the time.  And if you don't have policies that are able to go through the harsh times, then your transition is probably going to be undermined by these shocks. So, when I think about energy transition, I try to think, this is like rowing. When you row, you have a piece of technology, the old, that you have to put on the water. But you also need the guy that is in front of you and the guy that is behind you to do it at the same time. So, if you want to pick up the pace on energy transition, of course you need technologies. You need the best oath, you can, the best boat, you can. But you also need that everybody that is on the boat rows at the same time. So, by using subsidies that are well-paced, that they have a escalation problem, that they consider in their design, the fiscal problems that oftentimes have a company, this kind of policy. We cannot, we can't be able to bring low income residential consumers as an ally to energy transition. And not what oftentimes happens, that they are the ones that are opposing to picking up the pace on energy transition. Thank you so much, Cheryl. Thank you, Minister Pardo, for these very concrete suggestions. I would like to invite another keynote speaker, Aisha Sidica, Youth Climate Advisor to the UN Secretariat General, who has kindly agreed to share her perspectives about this important topic. Thank you so much. I speak to you today as an advisor to the UNSG on climate change on the topic of energy security in particular. We know that the IAA is very clear in its recommendations that continued reliance on fossil fuels does not guarantee energy security. However, we need a more people-centered energy transition as opposed to clean energy versus fossil fuel. Although energy security stands at the cornerstone of economic stability and national reliance, ensuring access to energy resources at affordable rates, tethering energy security solely to fossil fuels poses many dangers. We know that the fossil fuel industry, driven by insatiable greed, profits off a parasitic relationship that has continued to exploit the vulnerable and has therefore really ravaged our planet. Oil companies like... Oil companies expand their operations in the global south, paying little to no taxes, and depriving governments of vital revenue that could be used to invest in energy infrastructure and essential services. This exploitation further entrenched the dependence of the global south on fossil fuels, leaving them at the mercy of powerful corporations and countries who wield their dominance to oftentimes manipulate prices and withhold supplies, sending shockwaves throughout the economy and hindering the growth. It is irony that energy security, especially in the generation and distribution of electricity, is monopolized by the fossil fuel industry under the guise of maintaining market stability and supporting daily lives. This monopolization not only exacerbates a climate crisis, but also paves great geopolitical risks, threatening the delicate balance of power at the world stage. As we look ahead to future COP negotiations, it is rather troubling to see that the main topic of interest for Azerbaijan at COP 29 is renewable energy. However, COP 29 is actively involving oil and gas majors in the conversation. This alliance, fueled by the industry's long history of opposing renewable energy and lobbying against climate action, threatens to derail our efforts toward a sustainable future. With deep pockets and political influence, we risk creating a world that may appear green but on the surface, but is anything but. We really are out of time for half measures and tolerance for empty promises. Ministers, you must break free from the shackles of the fossil fuel monopolies. An embrace of future where energy security is synonymous with sustainability and social justice. It is alarming to see fossil fuel majors shaping the narrative, perpetuating their dominance and profiting from this instability. This is evident in the disparity of access to electricity like I mentioned, with nearly a billion in the global south forgotten by the international energy companies because providing last minute electricity access does not generate economic profits. And then furthermore, we have seen high profile cases of European oil companies reversing production reduction targets. This should serve as a stark reminder that these entities are not willing to reform. So why do we keep believing it? Even in the so-called developed countries, rising energy costs exacerbate poverty with millions struggling to afford basic necessities. The fossil fuel industry capitalizes off our energy dependence, exacerbating poverty while evading taxes like I mentioned and depriving governments of crucial revenue. We cannot continue to sacrifice the well-being of our planet and its people at the altar of profit. We must democratize energy security, shifting towards decentralized, community-led renewable energy systems, empowering communities to own and manage their energy resources that were mentioned earlier today, which ensures greater autonomy and equitable distribution of benefits. We cannot let the renewable energy sector be yet another extractive industry that only benefits Wall Street. Thank you. Thank you so much, Ms. Sidica, for providing this crucial voice to the session. Let me now turn to Fatih Dzee Hassan, Director of Africa at Oxfam International. Ms. Hassan, the floor is yours. Thank you. Thank you very much. We are grateful for you having us and inviting Oxfam to share our perspective in this important conversation. I'm here to speak about Oxfam from Oxfam perspective in general, but please allow me to emphasize the need for just developmental and people-centered transitions, specifically in the African context as Oxfam Africa Director. Despite contributing to less than 3% of the world's carbon emissions, Africa is experiencing some of the most severe consequences of global warming. In the past few weeks, Tropical Storm Filippo has hit Mozambique. South Sudan has closed schools during an extreme heat wave, and more than 24 million people face hunger, malnutrition and water scarcity due to extreme weather conditions in southern Africa. At the same time, many African citizens do not have access to decent access to energy. 600 million Africans lack access to electricity and 970 million lack access to clean cooking energy. These facts are important because they so clearly underscore the importance of ensuring a just and development-centered transition that not only prevents future emission growth, but also expands energy access, contributes to vital development goals and reduces, rather than entrenched, existing inequalities. And this brings me to one of the most important key considerations that we at Oxfam cannot stress enough, which is the need for large-scale international climate finance. Findings from Oxfam in 12 lower-income countries reveal that most do have ambitious emission reduction targets and are seeking to increase the use of renewable in their energy mix. However, their attempts are constrained by the lack of the promised grants, concessionary climate finance, and by inadequate investments. A second related consideration is the pace of transition. If an underfunded and overly rapid phase-out of fossil fuels is imposed in low-income countries, those could face serious fiscal disruption, energy access reduction, and that would set back development prospects. It is therefore important that different approaches are adopted on a global level to allow low-income countries more time for the energy transition. We can overlook this, but it would be at the risk of creating serious social disruptions. In other terms, this means that high-income countries must transition first and fastest. A third consideration is whether the transition contributes to both a fairer and greener world. But this depends on whether all stakeholders put justice and rights at the heart of transition policies and programs. Oxxom and partners work and research indicate that in too many instances, consideration of justice, development and rights are ignored. The energy transition creates many opportunities and benefit for resource and mineral-rich countries, if they can move into manufacturing and mineral processing. But such ambitions face obstacles from restrictive global intellectual property, trade and investment rules. I agree with Dr. Biral this morning, who stressed the importance of equity principle in his welcome remarks. So all stakeholders need to take responsibility to ensure a people-centered transition, but governments in particular need to play a proactive role in resetting the rule of the game and managing the transition to ensure it's not only fast, but also fair. As Oxxom, we will continue to play our role in a people-centered just-energy transition, but we need concrete actions from governments, and we trust that we can rely on all stakeholders present in this room today. Thank you. Thank you so much for these enlightening discussions and sharing Oxxom International Perspectives, Ms. Nzi Hassan. Let me now turn to John Dantel, Secretary-General of the International Chamber of Commerce, which he's going to bring important perspectives from the voice of the world business about the challenges, real-life challenges and opportunities. Mr. Dantel, the floor is yours. Thank you very much, and I'll use my 30 minutes wisely. I'm joking. I just want to make certain everyone's engaged. You'll pull me down. Just a couple of things. We really welcome the opportunity to participate in this discussion. I also welcome the fact that there are so many representatives from organized labor here and from civil society. This is a really important discussion for us to be involved with and from our past experience working with groups like the International Trade Union Movement on critical issues to do with debt, climate, and particularly vaccine equity during COVID. I think the voice of the ICC combined with civil society, organized labor, and interested parties can make a very powerful voice to actually expedite what is being called for all around this place, which is faster action in order to achieve net zero. Let me just say about the ICC, because I did hear some particular descriptions of various parts of the private sector. Friends, we're in 170 countries. We represent more than 50 million businesses. 70% of the ICC is actually in the Global South. And the success of the ICC's constituency delivers employment and opportunities to more than one and a half billion workers, so one in three workers in the world. So we have a real interest in ensuring this process that we engage with here is actually real and delivers. I just want to make a couple of comments and I think Fadi made a very powerful call. What we're seeing with finance is that there's actually an expedited engagement by the private sector in providing private finance. Something like 60% now financing for climate comes from the private sector. But my friends, the reason I am here is that we want your support and inhibitors in us getting the private sector financing into developing and emerging economies. And that's where the greatest need sits. I'm pleased to be under the chairmanship of Brazil here, because I'm co-chair of Finance and Infrastructure in the Brazilian B20, and this is a big discussion for us there. But there are things in the way of us getting that. So talking about policy reforms. First of all, I look at it in three dimensions. First of all, it's around government. The second is around the behavior and the incentives, I suppose, in support of the multilateral development banks. And third is actually around regulators and standard setters. And there's some really important issues there for us to think about it. With governments, if I can just focus on that for a second. It's vitally important that they establish robust policy ecosystems for clean energy, starting with clear targets. But also encompassing sound permitting and regulatory processes. And frankly, there are, without those, it actually makes it harder to invest and get the finances we need. And we want to see the roadmaps for the NDCs build in critically our commitment to 1.5. And that, by the way, is not happening with the level of ambition it should. And we at the ICC will push for that. At multilateral development banks, we want them to shift to become a catalyst. I think we all know that the return on investment that we're actually seeing at the moment is only about 1.3. And there's openness to that as well. And you've heard R.J. Banger talk about this at the World Bank. So there is actually an opportunity here. But the issue for us is for them to move from debt to equity and how we help them create that environment. But then I just want to talk a little bit about the regulatory and standard setters. We're aware of growing concerns that the financial stability rules that are curated through the Basel framework are becoming a growing inhibitor to the flow of climate finance from private sources in developing economies. You know why that? It's because of sovereign downgrades. And this is an issue that Sharon on the other side and I have talked about before. There's almost a synchronicity. Sovereign downgrade, automatically what happens is credit ratings go down for companies seeking to get access to finance. That interlinkage was actually set up in 0809. That macroprudential regulatory framework needs to be examined in the context of the real world in which we operate and the ends to which we're seeking as well. So that's something we're looking for. And we're actually doing a lot of work through the Brazilian G20 on this and through the G7 and we'll be doing the work through the BRICS Plus business groups as well. So that's important if I could put that out to you. The other is ensuring that there is a clear linkage between what we're doing on trade and on climate as well. Last year for the first time we were able to put together a trade and finance... a trade and... a trade and climate day at the... at the Dubai COP28. That was the first time ever the two links have been put together... the two have been linked together. Because you know that 50% of emissions at least are coming out of trading across borders, etc. So we need to bring that together and we need to get more work happening on things like removing the tariffs on access to environmental goods and services. So we need to get a unified movement on that as well. So I'm coming to you today with the three key areas plus an additional focal points. We need to get governments focus on the NDCs. We need to get the shift in the multilateral development banks to focus on being a catalyst. We need to actually look at specific multi-prudential regulatory frameworks and we have recommendations on that. And we need to ensure trade and climate as a vector are linked and not dealt with separately going forward. Thank you. Thank you Mr. Danton I would like now to bring a label voice. Ethel Hoi I'm quite sure I will pronounce all the names correctly today. General Secretary of the Industrial All Global Union which represents over 50 million workers in 140 countries in the mining, energy and manufacturing sector. Mr. Hoi, the floor is yours. Thank you chair and yes, you got my name almost perfectly correct. I'm glad to hear that everybody around this table realizes that we're talking about an existential crisis an existential crisis that has to be solved if we are to save the planet and future generations. I'm also glad that we understand that we have to act now that every day we wait is more expensive to solve the problem. And I'm also glad to hear that most of the participants think that it's important to have all the actors on board in the discussion. So then I have to ask a question and this is one of the small elephants going around the room. Why is it that many governments after meetings like this go home and introduce legislation that makes it more difficult to be a trade union? Why is it that many companies spend a lot of money fighting the existence of trade unions when we all realize in these meetings that we need trade unions on the table in order to create the processes that are necessary to solve the problem? I think we really need to figure that out because it's good to have good speeches at the table but the most important is what happens when we get home and start implementing. There are billions of dollars spent on keeping trade unions away from our workplaces. And if we continue that we won't be able to solve the problem. But if we solve that we will of course very happily be part of the discussion and I think that one of the important things then to look at is how do we use all of the investments going into the climate change processes? We agree that the process have to be just and inclusive and we agree that a lot of money has to go into it. But one of the problems we are asked to look at in this debate is inequality and we have to put these two issues on the table at the same time. We need to make sure that the investments are made in a way that reduces the problem of inequality. We cannot solve one existential crisis by creating another one and I'm afraid that if we continue to let inequality grow we will create another existential problem that we will have to solve at a high price at a later stage. So as has been said by many here today it is important to create processes where you include those who are going to bear the brunt of the effects of the solutions we're looking at. I'm going to just illustrate that with maybe a little bit of an exaggerated example but if we come to a remote mining area and say to the workers in the mine that listen, we have a global problem to solve in a year we're going to have to transform the industry completely. We won't be using coal. Unfortunately there will be no jobs for you after this transition and also unfortunately your community won't have anything to do in this area because there is no process of developing something that is an alternative. Luke was very clear about this this morning. We have to create processes where people feel secure that on the other side of transition there is a good place for them. Now we know that the jobs in the fossil fuel industry are well paying jobs, good jobs. They're very unionized organized because the unions have spent a lot of time making sure that they are. The new jobs in the new industries are not that organized. We also heard earlier today that the jobs in the new industries are lower paid. That's rather strange when we also heard that the new industries are more white colorized higher value added but still workers are making less money. So even those who get jobs in the new industry do not feel that they're better off after the transition. These are problems that we have to solve. We don't have time to do it the wrong way. We've also heard several examples here today of what happens if we do it in the wrong sequence. Sometimes we have to start the process all over again. Sometimes we have to go back and sometimes the results aren't as good as they could have been if we evolved everybody from the beginning. So my clear encouragement to everybody is do like we've done in this session. Invite the stakeholders. Have the real debate. But also when it comes to the implementation on the ground have the discussion with the local constituents because they are the ones who are going to do the job for us. Thank you so much for providing this very useful context to the session. I would like now to invite our final keynote speaker for this session. Deputy Executive Director of Social Development and Social Progress at the French Development Agency. And I think it's time to listen to your perspectives. Mr. Leroy, thank you so much. The floor is yours. Thank you, Mariana. And thank you to have put today together climate and social in the same panel because it's not so often that we can link the two topics. We've opened a new world, of course, of opportunities and disruption. And we have to tackle both of them because we have the opportunity to work on an adequate policy design and this is this adequate policy design that will ensure the transition to optimize the distribution of costs and benefits across population. Today as the global head of social development and human development and social progress within AFD Group, I'm pleased to emphasize that we've worked recently on a dedicated cross-cutting strategy to address the just dimension of the energy transition and please allow me to share with you some key features and example of this strategy. The message number one is to work on the preparatory stage. We need specifically to look at context-specific analysis. These context-specific analysis are the only way to ensure benefits and their fair distributions amongst the population. And to do so, we have to work with research and international organization like Hughes, in fact, to release data. We have no other choice to use modeling and multi-sector programming tools to construct pathways. And to add also tools measuring the social impacts of the transition. We need to deploy those instruments from the start of the planning exercise and not after-all. We need to highlight potential urders to the necessary transformation but also success factors. We did this within our research department focusing on the cost of transition but also focusing on the green gross analysis framework and a positive budget programming process. We also need to qualify the nature of impacts and really in details whether positive creation of new business reduction in air pollution but also negative loss of jobs, competitiveness destruction of capital drop in the level of life. And look at the topic really on the earth and on the ground. In South Africa, for example we have deconducted several studies on how social policies and cost-reflective energy tariffs could impact energy pool, poor households and how we could mitigate in fact these impacts. We also need to estimate the distribution of the impacts, these impacts within society and really in depth by territory income levels in these sectors because they are all reacting differently in fact to the incentives and the shocks. We did develop a specific ecosystem modeling tools to analyze transition risk by value chains and different value chains and we did this for example in Indonesia. And finally this is key to design and arbitrate scenarios and gives us different scenarios to the policy makers and to the policy decisioners for them to make the good decision to limit negative impacts and maximize the fair distribution of transition dividends. We did this for example in Senegal and in Nigeria. The message number two, we need to go in a voluntary and protective way to design public policy and intersexual dialogue. At two stages, the first one is at budget design. We need to consolidate the main investment expenditures transfers, tax incentives necessary for the transition. The second, we need to work on a strategy to mobilize private resources. The gap financing is too, too, too huge just to rely on public expenditure. As an example, as you know AFD is leading the finance income movement which is a global network of more than 500 public development banks being multinational regional, national, sub-national and they are key to align financial flows on the two 2030 agenda and the Paris agreement for climate change. Within the finance income and movement, we design a specific coalition for social investment really to make sure that we do not lose and leave people aside this transition and we design a special working group on sorry decent jobs and social protection at country level to force, in fact, the different stakeholders to work together and support roadmap, national roadmap and also financing. The third message I have for you, in fact, we need to have direct support on the ground at the scale of territories. Why? Because we need to support workers in declining sectors both financially and extra financially and also to support the creation of decent jobs, more decent jobs and support all the stakeholders that push for new opportunities, training centers, universities, research centers, the one that will support, in fact, the creation of the good skills for the new jobs, in fact, to emerge. And we also need to promote the private sector at local stage, favorizing incubation, financing innovation, new businesses and research. We did this with the DBSA in South Africa who decided to launch a network of public, private and civil society partners to promote professional training activities and cultural action. Finally, the transition is really part of a territorial planning policies and these territorial planning policies need to embark monetary transfer programs, social protection system, energy performance for households and also an easier access to basic social services at local level. Thank you. Thank you, Ms. Leroy Leroy for providing this very useful final keynote and now we are going to move for all keynotes for all other stakeholders and participants to provide their comments and I kindly request you to provide your input by taking into consideration three quick questions that I am going to highlight right now. The first one, what are the key considerations that should be integrated into clean energy initiatives to ensure that benefits are maximized and distributed equitably across different socio-economic groups and regions? The second question is what are the examples of successful clean energy programs targeted towards low income and vulnerable communities? A third question for you to consider is what are effective examples where addressing social concerns and potential negative social impacts in the planning and policies led to better outcomes? These questions and the previous keynotes and innovations laid the ground for our discussions on how to design the policies to maximize positive social impacts and right now I would like to ask the speakers to be concise and brief as possible throughout the session limiting your remarks to three minutes . I would like just to begin to invite Dr. Shu Han to make the first intervention. Thank you, my own chair. And as previously mentioned that clean energy transition is not just about climate. It is also relevant to a broader concerns on the sustainable development agenda. The nature of renewable energy offers an opportunity to be independent from fossil fuel. And in the meanwhile the technological progresses allow us much cheaper access to energy. Thus I would like to contribute with some Chinese experience on that. China has developed its energy revolution strategy in 2015 and has made continuous efforts on that. We have adopted not only an approach but also a society-wide approach. Back to the beginning of this century China has provided electricity to millions of rural residents through bright projects in 2001 and golden sun projects in 2009. Greatly improving the accessibility of electricity in remote areas by putting up PV modules. Later on China has successfully integrated energy transition into rural areas. China has also developed a technology to reduce poverty alleviation. A dedicated fund is used to invest PV stations and rooftop PV system for villages and families that are lack of source of income. Jobs are created for the maintenance of these projects and local authorities also provides training so that they don't have to work under this energy transition poverty alleviation hybrid scheme benefiting 92,000 villages and more than 4 million households with an annual power generation revenue of approximately 18 million yuan per year. Similar cases apply to co-producing regions and Gobi deserts on the ecosystem recovery. To incorporate more interest to the society, the Chinese government also allows renewable energy projects to be built in farming lands on the pools and on the rooftop of water pumping stations in the rural areas as long as the original activities are not interrupted. Simplified permitting procedure is applied and a constant tariff is applied to rooftop PVs and distributed wind projects so that the risk of price fluctuations is not exposed to low income populations. In 2023, more than 15 gigawatts of distributed wind projects and 116 gigawatts household PV capacities is available to contribute to the energy transition in China. We believe that there will be more with the Yu Feng and Mu Guang projects in the villages and also I would like to mention that China has projects on clean cooking and heating and more than 37 million families abandoned coal in their cooking and heating. A transition fund will also be established to deal with the issues on just transition in China as well. Thank you. Thank you so much. Now I ask Sophie Moulon to make her comments. Thank you very much. I will soon switch to French for my address that I will focus on the fact that our policy should not be designed in average. What is important in... What is important in designing our energy transition policies is to adopt an approach which is not one based on averages but which takes into account all of the individual situations concerned. Favorable policies to foster the energy transition to favor energy security and economic resilience can have fairly variable impacts according to social situations and geographic regions. So it's very important once you have initially fleshed out your policy designs to take into account the individual characteristics of the areas where you are implementing them, the geographic requirements. More and more in France we have been working on spatial planning in this regard when we are developing renewable energies and transition policies. Adopting a spatial planning approach gives local communities greater visibility. It enables the local communities and the local governments to understand the impact of the coming transition and to really participate actively in that transition process. It's a very important point. Another associated issue that's been mentioned by several speakers is the need to have open public debate. It's true that that takes some time when you are planning, when you are designing and implementing projects but it is a fundamental importance for the smooth running of those projects and it is very important to allow time for people to express themselves and time for public authorities to listen. We have an independent authority, the National Public Debate Commission that intervenes for all major projects at a fairly early stage of their design from an economic point of view. It is also very important not to take an approach based on averages but rather to look at individual situations. For certain consumers, certain population groups, the level of state policies can end up being quite difficult to cope with, very difficult for specific consumers and households or for certain companies and so it's very important to take a case-by-case approach and to put in place the necessary mitigation approaches or compensation particularly to reduce bills for the most vulnerable households where it's necessary to provide financial support. So many people would insist on the importance of a tailored approach and not an approach based on averages. France has overseas territories as well and that illustrates the need for that case-by-case approach. Thank you for your attention. Thank you so much. Sophie, I would like to call Priyantra, oh my gosh, Vijaya Tunga from the Asian Development Bank. Thank you. Thank you very much, Chair. Your Excellencies. Asian Development Bank is one of the largest multilateral development banks working in the Asia-Pacific region, if not the largest. And we have roughly about annual lending capacity of about $25 billion of our own funds in addition, of course, we bring in co-financing. Energy is essential for economic growth that has lifted costs as all of us know and currently Asia-Pacific region is the source of 50% of global greenhouse gas emissions. And at the same time, this region is quite vulnerable to climate disasters as you could see in the case of Pakistan and Bangladesh flooding and therefore most of these impact at the end the women and children mostly and the vulnerable groups. These difficult facts tell us that we need to deploy substantial resources to make this transition. At the same time, we also should make sure that the transition is just and inclusive. Let me highlight three key ways that we can accomplish this. First, we urgently need to scale up support for energy transition using innovative approaches. Climate financing will play a big role here and ADB is stepping up to this challenge. ADB is fully engaged in its role as the climate bank of Asia and the Pacific. We raised our climate financing ambition to 100 billion dollars between 2019 and 2030. And last year, we undertook reforms to our capital adequacy framework which brought in another 100 billion dollars for the next 10 years in addition to our regular lending capacity. Second, we need to do this is to join together to make a commitment to adjust energy transition. ADB's 2021 energy policy articulates this commitment. It reflects our decision to withdraw from coal financing and to ensure access to affordable, sustainable and modern energy for all. Third, we also need to solidify our shared commitment to adjust transition. ADB is doing this through coordinated actions such as the joint statement of multilateral development banks on just one level. We also lining ADB operations fully with Paris agreement. To succeed in this area, we will support planning encompassing not only technical and economic but also social and environmental aspects giving equal consideration at all stages of project concept to project implementation. Support planning that involves a strong institutional framework to address the social and economic impacts of energy transition and build effective knowledge on the transition that is grounded in scientific divisions. If you follow these approaches carefully in our work together, we will achieve a greener and more prosperous inclusive resilient and sustainable world. Thank you. Thank you so much for your considerations and now I will invite Alison Tate from the International Trade Union Federation to have your contributions. Thank you. We heard about elephants in the room in terms of lack of workers' rights. The elephant in the room I think is lack of access to finance, not lack of finance but who's going to pay to address these questions. What are the key considerations? Well, we often hear in the finance discussions about how to create decent jobs and job creation and transformation of the economy at the scale and the speed that we all acknowledge that we need, we hear impact investing and sustainable finance and the links for labor rights and human rights in terms of due diligence for companies to actually have the programs in place that will be impactful. Well, that's called implementing investing in a just transition and we're way past the design phase, we're actually in the implementation phase. So where is the money coming from and who benefits. And so if we hear about the kind of costs that are needed to be addressing the planning, the dialogue, the training, the capacity building etc., earlier on it was said we need to embed and price into investment decisions those structures and those costs they're real structures and real costs. And yet if we don't do it the costs are much higher of inaction. So I would say then the answer to the second question on successful examples particularly for low income and vulnerable communities I would say that very often when we speak about the finances of it we hear a lot about stranded assets, investments in infrastructure or in projects in indeed business lines that actually ultimately will be phased out or are not going to deliver for those stakeholders. So stranded assets stranded people stranded workers, stranded communities indeed stranded small businesses very often. So the reality of how we see low income communities access finance and we know there are rules we know that it needs to be accessible and transparent and accountable but I would just say those implementation programs need to be specific it was suggested just now place based specific to the project, specific to the stakeholders and in our case we are really appreciative of the Brazilian government. We are part of the L20 in the G20 process where we see those considerations are coming together in your considerations around not only investing in just transition and having the implementation possible but we see that the infrastructure and the finance decisions that investors need to make need to have that policy framework where the rules and incentives to drive action are clear and provide certainty but then we need the funds going into those opportunities for real decent work job creation. Thank you. Thank you so much. I now open the floor for Zufia Suleymanova from the International Environmental Cooperation of Kazakhstan. The floor is yours. Thank you very much for your excellencies, dear participants of this Global Summit. Thank you very much for invitation and for the opportunity to talk. I think I will provide a little bit different perspective in terms of the discussions that we have from perspective of fossil fuel country. Kazakhstan is the largest landlocked country in Central Asia. We are the biggest in the world. We have an economy which is very important for the country. We have a lot of important issues, including gas and coal. However, we are very much determined to play active part in implementing climate action to be specific as a developing country we have already committed to carbon emissions reduction by 2030 and pledged to achieve carbon neutrality by 2060. Climate action is one of the top priorities of the president of Kazakhstan. When we talk about the transition, the gradual, sustainable and socially responsible transition away from the use of coal would be a big bonus in achieving the global climate change goals. In Kazakhstan, the decarbonisation would mean that we would need to do an energy transition because energy sector represents over 80% of national emissions. I would like to mention two aspects of the transition away from using coal especially but also the fossil fuel as it was mandated in UAE consensus would be important in the regions which are dependent on these fossil fuels. In Kazakhstan, we have something called mono cities. This city is fully specialises on fossil fuels. Kazakhstan has at least four mono cities with a population of 1 million people. We're not even including the people who are involved in fossil fuel related sectors and industries elsewhere in the country. That means that for us just transition in these regions would mean that we will need to completely reorient the entire cities, their industries, lives, create new industries, re-employ people, re-educate them and so on. The second one that we look into is that just transition is considered from two angles. One is finding opportunities for people working directly in the sector or employed in supporting sectors. As I said, that would be a lot alongside with the mono cities but also supporting people who will be affected through the clean transition because that would mean that the tariffs are going to go up for these people especially for the most vulnerable population. Basically, we see that for the energy transition we need to think about the just component and that is very important. I know that I have very little time but I will just be very short on that. What we need to do about this, there are two things. First, the international cooperation and the national efforts. When speaking about the national efforts, what is important is you need to start the dialogue and you need to discuss because people, and it was mentioned previously because people will not be liking your ideas. So we are going to tackle the global climate change and if a person is about to lose his job, he will not be fancying this idea. So we have already started some of the discussions with the private sector, with the civil society to create the platform that will be specifically focusing not so much on the energy transition but more on the just aspect of such transition. We notice that private sector is very often quite willing to self-engage and participate in the transition of this, in basically doing the decarbonisation but they do indeed need a very good environment and the policies. So the first thing that you want to do is you want to create the platform discuss and make sure that you have proper policies. And that also includes the just transition in critical minerals. This was mentioned because Kazakhstan is one of the countries with a huge potential for critical minerals and in my previous position as Minister of Environment, I had lots of discussions with local communities who are not always excited about the extraction of critical minerals because that might be environmentally unsustainable. So you want to make sure that you create the proper incentive so that the local community can also benefit from these global climate transition things. And I think that the transition is also very important because without the intranational support many countries would not be able to implement the transition. And this was also mentioned and tackled by some of the speakers before me. Specifically it was mentioned that it's not that we do not have finance. It is about access to finance. Do we have access? Do we have proper mechanisms for the countries and for the communities in terms of capacity? These kind of opportunities should be available and I think we need to have more discussions at the intranational level with intranational players and actors to make sure that we do provide the proper and the just access to the countries, to the governments, to the communities. Thank you. Thank you so much for your comments and I now acknowledge Adewalia Dayanju from Nigeria Labor Congress to make your comments. The floor is yours. Thank you, Mr. Madam Chair. I brought fraternal greetings from Nigeria Labor Congress. It's leadership. I commend the International Energy Agency, IEA for convening this HEPUKA Global Summit on People Center Clean Energy this meeting coming a few months after the landmark conference of the parties, that's COP28, which recorded significant milestone including the mainstreaming of the need to respect labor rights and promote decent work in the just transition work program. The Nigeria Labor Congress with the support of the African Development Bank had a side event at COP28 the first of its kind since about 10 years of our participation in COP climate change conferences. This illustrates the kind of progress that can be achieved when social partners work together. This kind of partnership would believe is a major goal of this global summit. The Nigeria Labor Congress also participated in fierce negation of different aspects of climate change, especially just the robust engagement at COP28 especially on the strength of being the good-sitting partner with government, but tracing the gain the NSC climate change. Green jobs and just transition program has made over the years in attracting the years of government and private sector employers on the need to include workers in climate change policy making the implementation space. For us in Nigeria as well as many countries in the global south, climate change and its impact are no longer distant things but our daily living realities. Workers in Nigeria, African other developing countries are awake to this reality and that is why we are taking the issue of just transition as well as the just transition work program as well negotiated at COP28 seriously. Fortunately, just transition is a working class initiative. Unfortunately workers are being able out of the just transition spaces as what's a tough battle at COP28 getting the function of liberal rights mainstream in the texts of just transition work program. This is not a consequence of this. Since the global discussions on climate change started with the real summit, there has been a very conscious and organized effort to promote the voice of workers from being hard and considering the global regional and national climate and environment discussions. Yet workers are at the heart of climate change because most of the harmful greenhouse gas emissions happen in the workplace and workers live in communities where the hardest impact of the emission take place. Through address this imbalance against workers on the matter of climate change, the working class right has failed for the mainstream of workers issue at the heart of the just transition work program. Guarantee human right, liberal right inclusive participation, promote social protection measures and ensure sustainable climate finance through public funding and grants. In line with other COP28 which was just for workers in just transition, the demand is that workers must be represented in decision making space on the climate change as well as the government and policy structures of the Nigeria climate change institution. The national council of climate change were also demanded for an audit of workers who are currently employed in vulnerable sector so that appropriate transition policy can be developed for them especially in terms of training and upskilling. We have also praised digital of health impacts so for workers exposed to environmental pollutants especially those in the oil and gas sector. This is part of our campaign to hang gas flaring as co-incident and environmental regulations in all bearing community in Nigeria. At COP28 part of the UA concept was a deliberate transitioning away from fossil fuel. This has given implications for microeconomy stability for resources dependent countries like Nigeria. This is why we support the identifications of gas as a transition fuel. We use this forum to call on the business community to invest in Nigeria gas sector as a practical statement on just transition. This will go a long time because we are using energy poverty. This is part of wood gathering and cooking on rural Nigerian and African women and boosting revenue available to government for social sector interventions. We have also made this demand on the government of Nigeria to adopt compressed natural gas as an alternative. Thank you and God bless. Thank you so much. We are running out of time but I would like to make a quick correction on Miss Zufia Suleymanova job position, so sorry. She is advisor to the president of the Republic of Kazakhstan, special representative of the president on international environmental cooperation, so just a quick correction. And now I would like to invite another participant to make your comments. I kindly invite Ambassador Jaroslaw Karpoviks from Poland to make your comments. The floor is yours. Thank you very much, Madam Chair. I would try to be very, very brief. To design best policies maximizing positive social impacts please let me show with you a rather success story of one of the Polish region on the south of my country, completely dependent on coal extraction. So in the beginning of 90s, there were around half a million people work there, plus relatives, friends. So the area completely dependent on the coal industry. As the same as the whole country, our electricity at that time was produced in 90% from lignite and hard coal. And within 30 years we were able to increase the number of people working there to nowadays 80,000 people. And this region which was very poor at that time now is the third, the most developed region in Poland with GDP per capita on the top of the regional statistics. So what happened within these years, I think there are three main points very important for my government and I hope that somehow it can be also useful in your work in finding the best solution. The first was the political consensus. I mean all governments were very honest to the people living there that there was no other way just to realize the coal industry would phase out although at the beginning there was a huge social and recent protests in Poland like in many other European countries. So consistency is very important and the second of course incentives many programs, projects which was already mentioned and probably is experience of many, many countries rather to create new jobs sometimes very new industries not only related to the energy it was the time of 90s and the peak of 2000. But the third point which I think is quite important and not so unique is to trust people and to give them a chance to do whatever they want. It was very risky at the beginning and it was also some kind of social agreement to give people who work in the coal industry money to create their own businesses. It was very liberal not very popular nowadays where governments try to have very strict policies but it worked I mean especially in this area on the south of Poland with a huge tradition of coal industry with big cultural links to the German to the Czech Republic these people use the money in the best way and now they are very entrepreneurial. So I know that my time is limited I really would like to tell more about this story but maybe there will be another occasion Thank you Ambassador for your comments. I now invite Elbia Ganon from the Brazilian Wind Energy Association to make your comments. You have the floor Elbia. Thank you Mariana, good afternoon everyone. I'd like to bring a business view here about renewable. So as a CEO in Brazil in Power Association in the last 13 years I see that this industry was born and it has been growing in Brazil dramatically, mainly in the last 10 years. With this experience I can confidently say that renewable energy is a powerful tool for the just energy transition. However in order for us to harness the full potential of these investments it is crucial that investors governments and society in general broaden their vision and commitment to decision. During this time I witnessed the success of the Wind Energy Project especially in the Northeast region in Brazil. This region which previously faced economic growth challenges has benefited from investments in wind energy over the last 10 years. More than 90% of investments of wind farm in Brazil is in the Northeast. Recently we make a very important macroeconomic study and we notice that every $1 that we invest in wind gives $3 for GDP Brazilian and we are waving through generation returning the economy when we talk about multiplicator effectors. In this region we notice that GDP increases about 20% and the home index increases 21% in the time that investment is driving there. We have been improving jobs, generating jobs and improving income in this region and you can change the condition of the communities with investments. However, we recognize that the challenges we are currently facing in spending these benefits and dealing with social movements in the energy. It's important to assume that some wind farms developed in the past have had negative impact in local communities. We are committed to learning from these mistakes and ensure that future wind energy projects are developed to sustain with the respect for communities. Social inclusion and participation are the key priorities at our stages of the process. Thank you very much. Thank you, Elbia. I would like now to invite Mr. Mike Anscut from GIZ to make your comments. The floor is yours. Thank you very much, chair and thanks to the conveners for inviting us. We are very honored and happy to sit with such a distinguished member. I represent GIZ. We are the German International Corporation Agency. That's the Agency for International Collaboration or Corporation of the German Federal Government. We are currently working with about 80 countries worldwide and many are around the table today see some familiar faces on promoting the energy transition. In the past two decades in a very intensive manner we often say that it's not time to act but it's really time to accelerate because we have already or the partners have already achieved a lot in many instances and it's now really time to accelerate these processes that are partly already underway in terms of the just energy transition. We are in the countries with more than 1,600 or predominantly local staff members from the countries we work with and we also believe in very long-term partnerships so we usually work with our partners at least for three, four years but in very many, many occasions rather decades than years because the transition is a complex and long-term marathon and we want to be there with the partners all the way through. We firmly believe that just energy transition is too important to be left to the energy sector alone and that's our answer to your question, Chair, how do you approach policymaking? We feel that it's important to have an integrated approach along many dimensions maybe I want to share with you two dimensions where we feel an integrated approach is really the key to a successful just energy transition first of all to take an intersectoral and cross-sectoral approach to the energy transition this I think becomes obvious when you listen to what has been said here and all day through but it's easier said than done so we really work very hard with governments to put this dialogue especially between ministries on the ground then also a mix of instruments that we use in our support to policymaking that certainly work on policy strategy long-term also national energy planning which is more a technical endeavour but also institutional development we hold very important human capacity development is key for successful energy transition that takes along also for the benefit of the entire society so upskilling but also work with public sector actors and do capacity development is important but also cooperation with the private sector so we work very intensively especially with local start-up companies to do capacity building with them but also to help them get access to finance for their projects thank you very much thank you Mike now but last but not least I would like to call Eduardo Ávila from RevoluSolar to make your intervention you have the floor thank you Mariana I would like to congratulate IEA on leading this people-centered transition it was an honour to be cited in the first ever Latin America energy outlook as a success case in Latin America for bringing solar to long-term population and thanks Mariana to leading this discussion representing Brazil so well just a quick story I just came back last week from an indigenous community in the Amazon region that we are installing solar we are non-profit and mostly youth-based initiative and they have the grid for the light photo program this was very good but one data they have 20 out of 30 days without access to electricity they cannot afford the electricity so my talk is going to be focused on energy poverty on the affordability and reliability aspects the energy poverty defines the 10% rule would be the limit for affordability and we have in Brazil although we have one of the most renewable energy matrix in the G20 countries we have 46% of Brazilians that say they spend more half of their budget with electricity but this was a perception research we lack of data related to real expenses and data is fundamental as mentioned and Brazil has one of the most expensive energy prices for residential in the world so quality and reliability are the SDG7 aspects and these vulnerable communities are suffering for that not access to the grid enough this is not enough we need it for good and affordable energy and solar is the cheapest source of electricity leader in job generation and becoming the number one source of electricity in the world so it's an unique opportunity to transform the lives of the people who need the most so we do this low income communities model with solar with new business models financing mechanisms and education and culture to make solar more affordable and popular we advocate for a just, inclusive and popular energy transition and rooftop solar is the tool that we can make that I don't know how many of you guys have solar I think the majority of you but if you go to a vulnerable community nobody has and they are suffering from this and as the Chilean representative said incentivize incentivize solar residential especially to low income households is essential and we need that Mariana in Brazil and I think we have a unique opportunity in terms of popular participation and we are working to give you recommendations for G20 and co-op 30 next year to do this popular transition we are committed to connect communities, government companies, universities to create this collective action for this transition and to provide data on experiences on just energy transition in the global south to be replicated thank you Thank you Eduardo and thank you all for the fruitful comments and discussions we could spend the whole afternoon here talking about this and it was very, very enlightening for me especially I am co-chairing the G20 energy transitions working group from the Brazilian presidency and I took many different notes and I think my mission right now is to echo many of the key takeaways and messages that you brought here today and thank you again IEA for this opportunity we do see this as a very, very important moment for us I have some important messages that came up so that we can have a wrap up of these moments it was pretty clear for example the role of subsidies and fiscal policies since we are having many, many issues in place that need to be considered and how we can make these less burden for many, many different contexts in terms of the population and especially the low income population the need of social dialogue to assure that community engagement is happening that people are proposing some solutions and understanding the key impacts that they are going to suffer with these policies and decisions it's really important it is also important to take into consideration the needs of the specific conditions each case, each region each country will have many specific contexts and of course there is no one size fits all we need to take into consideration what is going to be better and make sense for each of them we have also listened about the importance of also bringing into this equation the role of critical minerals related to this aspect since we are going to be more mineral mining dependent for this energy transition and how we can bring this as an opportunity to leverage and provide social and economic development from many countries and regions and last but not least the importance of having adequate data we need to be more data driven decision makers so while we are not getting information about how women are being impacted by indigenous communities and less more vulnerable part of the population is being affected we will not address the nice and correct policies so I'll stop now and thank you so much for having me here but now I pass the floor to Jane which she has some messages for you from now on Jane


to tell you an example from India during the pandemic and the difficulties that it posed to a lot of ordinary people in many parts of the world, including India. One of the experiments that was tried out in the southern state of Kerala was the idea of communal kitchens.  Instead of each family producing their own food, you're cooking for the whole neighborhood. Moreover, men got involved in a much more way. They won't do it in their home. But when it's done in the communal setting, they get involved in washing dishes, transporting the vessels, et cetera, et cetera.  And that is a different way of imagining what life is, what communal life should be. My name is Ajit Sakhariyas, and I'm affiliated with the Levy Economics Institute of Bart College. Part of the standard of living of workers is provided by the domestic unpaid domestic services and caring services by people at home, primarily women. And then this was also a focus of debate during the 1970s and 80s with the growth of socialist feminism in the Western world. So the whole question of domestic labor debate, as it was known. So the literature came. So the part of the limp tip is informed by those debates. Part of it has actually got to do with a much more narrower focus, which is to do with, like, how do we measure poverty? At this point, actually, it was raised by a pretty mainstream economist, Claire Wickery, in the early 1970s, where she had a critique of the US poverty line. Now, the poverty line is basically supposed to tell you what you needed the minimum to have a maintain a socially acceptable standard of living. Now, if you were to survive with that amount of income, Wickery argued, you need someone as a full-time caretaker at home for what? Well, for taking care of the kids, for shopping at the cheapest outlets so that you could live within that limited budget, and doing all the other domestic services that are required to reproduce the household as a unit. So this presupposes that the unpaid working time of women at home, or someone else doing this job. So the poverty line presupposes that. Now, does everyone have the time to do it or not? A lot of working-class families, and she focused on single female-headed households, working-class women who had to raise a family and also earn a living. And then you find that they don't really have the time to do that, to meet this multiple demands on their life. And the conventional poverty measure does not take that into account at all. So this is what we set out to do, again, following Wickery's insight, but using modern methods and also bringing into play the intra-household dimension, the division of labor within the household, very much into focus. So the work is so far being done for Latin America and for Sub-Saharan Africa and then for South Korea and Turkey. Just to give you a broad overview of what the results look like is that, well, first of all, when you do this adjustment for the conventional poverty line, when you adjust it for the time deficits, the monetized value of the time deficits. So we find that poverty is substantially higher. We expect it to be higher because we are going to include in the poverty line some amount of this monetized value of the time deficits. But the extent to which that makes a difference is really dramatic. Like, for example, in the case of South Korea, it almost doubles the official poverty rate. In Mexico, the last estimates that we did was for 2019. And there we find that the increase is from the official rate is, I think, around 45%. And when you take this into account, it jumps to like 55%, 57%. So it's a 10% age point increase, which is a huge amount. So it changes then the picture of poverty, the extent, as well as the depth of poverty, which is typically understood as the gap, the unmet income needs of the population. It widens that too. The second crucial finding is that when you compare working women and working men, and you control for the hours of their employment, that is, you compare women and men who work similar hours. That is at the job, right? You find that women suffer from much higher rate of time poverty than men do from time deficits, right? And the root cause of that is the unequal division of domestic labor between men and women. That's one crucial factor. The other factor is the physical infrastructure, which especially in sub-Saharan African countries like Ghana and Ethiopia that we have studied. It's a crucial factor because you have women or young girls walking several kilometers to fetch water, firewood. A lot of the activities are negatively affected in the amount of time demands because of the poor state of physical infrastructure. But the social infrastructure is also important. What are the care facilities offered for young kids? This is very important. So that's one main finding about this inequality between men and women. Then the third main aspect, and this is where we have done some work using micro simulation techniques to do some thought experiments as to, OK, what happens if women do gain access to employment? How does that change the time and income poverty dynamic? Or what are actually the limits of redistribution of domestic labor within the household? And if you think about that, really, when you talk about a lot of working class poor families, you need both the husband and the wife to work long hours to meet the needs of the family. So how are you going to distribute it equitably? Of course, traditional gender norms and things like that play a big role in passing this double burden to the women. But a lot of times, within the constraints of working class families, there's a limited amount to which this redistribution can take place within the household. So that's one thing. The other thing is that if you have social infrastructure, physical infrastructure, these things you can improve. But again, there are limits to it. A lot of this got to do with the way we conceive of domestic work and how we consider rearing of children, raising of children as responsibilities of individual parents, rather than the old African saying, a village takes a village to raise a kid. So you've got to socialize a lot of these activities. And the extent to which they can be socialized will vary across countries and cultures and so on. But some amount of that has to take place. And to tell you an example from India during the pandemic and the difficulties that it posed to a lot of ordinary people in many parts of the world, including India, one of the experiments that was tried out in the southern state of Kerala was the idea of communal kitchens.  Instead of each family producing their own food, you're cooking for the whole neighborhood. Moreover, men got involved in a much more way. They won't do it in their home. But when it's done in the communal setting, they get involved in washing dishes, transporting the vessels, et cetera, et cetera. So this had a big impact. And that is a different way of imagining what life is, what communal life should be. So a lot of it requires us to actually think beyond the nuclear family, the individualism of capitalism, and what forces it to accept as its natural way of living and a way of raising children. And that has to change too, I think. Part of what we are looking at here is the institution of patriarchy. Again, this study is done for a sub-Saharan Africa collaborative study with myself and colleagues at the Levy Institute as well as colleagues in sub-Saharan Africa. And we are focusing on Ethiopia, Mali, South Africa, Tanzania, and Ghana. Now, one of the interesting things about this is that one factor that influences women's degree of autonomy or their degree of power at what's described as the meso level, the community level has got a lot to do with the strength of patriarchy. Now, by patriarchy, usually what is meant is the, at least in the Western context, is the domination of men over women, right? So, but that is a limited way of thinking about patriarchy when you go to the global south. The reason is that that's only one aspect of the way patriarchy functions in these societies. Another important dimension of access along which patriarchy functions is generational domination. So, patriarchy should be understood not just as women's subordination to men, but also the domination of the parents or the parent-like figures over the younger folks in the household or in the family. And so we construct, I mean, part of the empirical work, this is what I was referring to, is we have built indices of patriarchal power at the meso level, at the community level, right? So what it seeks to capture is this generational domination, the male, female, you know, domination, as well as what can be described as patri locality, which is what the term that the sociologists and the demographers used to describe how young families are tied to the place where their parents live, right? The patri locality of that. And then there's also the institution of son preference. So this is the four accesses along which we are measuring patriarchy, the patriarchal structures. Then there's a whole another domain of patriarchal ideology, which has got to do with attitudes, right? So which, again, we use data from the World Value Survey and the Afro Barometer Survey, which has been extensively utilized by political scientists and others and sociologists to study attitudes. So part of the questions there are about like, say, is it always acceptable for a man to meet his wife? Or do men always make better political leaders than women? So that through those set of surveys and specific questions from those surveys, we can capture to a great extent what the degree of prevalence of patriarchal ideology is in the country. And then by looking at living arrangements of people, information on that, we actually derive from the public use samples of the censuses that have been conducted in these countries, which also allows us to break the information down at a fine region level, you know? So that's how we construct it. Now, just to tell you about some of the interesting things that come out of this, is that if you take a place like Nantung province, the region in South Africa, right? Which is the home of Pretoria, the administrative capital of the country, as well as Johannesburg, which is like the big commercial, you know, the center, right? Now, Nantung ranks pretty high in terms of like the patriarchal, you know, the degree of power of patriarchal when you compare it across other regions of South Africa, which is interesting because normally you would think of the lesser developed part.  There, the degree of patriarchy will be the least around the great Rakara region, which is a capital region and the more urbanized part, and will be highest in the northern region, right? So which is a more rural underdeveloped part. So you find this interesting kind of contrast between countries, right? And a lot of this has got to do with the weight of the generational dominance versus the female male dominance, right? Now, the thing is that when we think about this generational dominance or the female-female thing, we should not think of them, I would argue, as mere matters of like power within the family. This got a lot to do with the economic policy and especially economic policy regarding retirement, regarding child rearing, regarding child benefits, you know, things like that. Because a lot of times what forces or what makes the families, the prevalence of the joint families or multi-generational families, common in the global south, is the lack of appropriate retirement security that people don't have the ability, for most ordinary people with ordinary incomes, don't have the ability to live by themselves, nor do they have the ability to like, you know, live in like an old age home or a senior community or anything like that. So that in fact makes the, you know, if you don't have health insurance protections like that.  And it works the other way around too, because if you have to, both your wife and your working, so they have small children at home, then grandma and grandchildren and grandpa living with you also provides that, right? So it's got a lot to do with the economic development and the policies towards employment policy and retirement policies. This is actually very integral to the production of patriarchal structures. So it's not just a question of like, you know, people's culture or, you know, sometimes it's thought about in those terms. It has got a lot to do with culture. I'm not saying that there's no role of culture, but a lot of times it's very much tied to economic policies and welfare policies particularly.