Check it, check it, check it, it's a unique hustle, it's your boy, E-C-E-O, and I'm here with the lovely official, Mr. Jamaica, how you doing? I'm awesome. David, I'm awesome, man. Awesome. Uh, okay. Hey, man, we out here in Las Vegas, man, and man, people, God been blessing the platform today, man. I got a beautiful, two beautiful women in front of me. You know, this is how I do it. You know, when I get down, yeah, yeah, God bless me with two. It's been like that for years, I don't know what it is. Check it, man. Check it, man. You've got a real one. Miss Tau is in the building, man, how you doing? Hey, I'm good, I'm blessed, thank y'all for having me, boss talk. Man, no, thank you for coming, man. Yeah, shout out to Payback, too. Say, man, Payback was like, you gotta get on this platform, man. I was like, really? And then he called it, didn't he? Uh-huh. I couldn't hear it, because I was over here doing something else. I was talking, he was trying to make sure that I was here. Yeah, yeah, he's going down, man. Payback, you already know my pedigree, you know what I'm saying? Wow, man. So how you been? I've been blessed, you know what I'm saying? I've been doing lovely radio, also I got a, you know, shout out, you know, I have my own radio show. Well, let's talk about it. Let's go back, let's go back.  Let's go back. Let's go back as far back as you want to go. Yeah, I want to get back all the way back to when you started, you know, getting into entertainment and all that and where you come from, you're from Chicago. Yeah. Okay, come on with it. Let me hear this. All right, Shotown, you know what I'm saying? I was born, you know, South Side, Chicago, and my mom moved to Inglewood, California when I was young, you know what I'm saying? So I went to school pretty much in California. Wow. You know what I'm saying? I was born and family's still there in Chicago and everything, dad and everything. But it's like, when she was ready to move, it was that time for me to see her. How old did you say again? I was 11. 11, okay. I was a little kid, you know what I'm saying? West Side, South Side. Okay. Okay. And we still repping dad because that's where my attitude comes from, you know what I'm saying? I'm West Coast when it comes to the music. When it comes to the business, I'm all Shotown, you know what I'm saying? Because it's real in the field out here, you know, when it comes to being a woman. So, I mean, my first devil in dad into the music was, you know, I worked with Ronnie DeVoe. Okay. That's when my first song got dead. And we did a song called Lifestyler, Rough and Sexy. He's basically doing... You talking about running DeVoe? From a new edition? Yeah, that's what I'm tripping on. How is it working with you? How did she say that?  You don't just skate back, man. I'm a skate past and I work with Run DeVoe. No, it looks so. When you work with Run DeVoe. Listen, listen. When the first people that heard me even spit a couple of lines, you know what I'm saying? They was running around trying to find me management. You always know you could spit even as a young child at 11? I always tell... I always say this. My mom told me after I became this toy, I was singing mini-rippin' in Shaka Con before I could talk. I didn't talk to my mom and them and I could talk until maybe two or three. Like I could talk but I have my sister running errands. At two or three? At two. Like I was one of the baby kids for real.  So she told me one of those stories. So I felt like after she told me, I was like, that ain't no wonder. Always I'm cleaning up. I got melodies. I can write songs all day. You know what I'm saying? And so when I did the song with Ronnie, it was like, okay. I get in the studio and I hear my voice in the headphones. I'm like, oh my God, this is going down. So the producer was like, oh my God, I love your voice. Wow. So just from that inspiration, that one song with him, let me know I need to keep going. Wow. You know what I'm saying? So when I got the call from K-Mac from, you know, well I did militia as well. But they don't own nothing.  That's my first step in the game with a gold album. You tell me? Mm-hmm. With an all male group. That's why I'm an MC. You feel me? Yeah. That's why I do what I do. Because I already went through the process. But when you started at a young age, because that's one thing, a lot of people, they jump into the industry because they're so excited and they have the love for music. Yeah. But they don't know the business side. They don't have anybody who can put them on their wings and say, okay, don't sign here. Don't do this. This is what you need to do to protect yourself. You need to get a lawyer.  I wasn't excited about anything. You wasn't? No. That's why I don't have a lot of people. That's why people, they don't know that, you know, different things that I do. Mm-hmm. Because I'm not, I've never been star struck and I'm not a groupie. Mm-hmm. So when I take care of business, I bounce. Because I'm blessed to have a great family to share all my greatness with and all my goals and all my stuff with. So I don't go online and be like, this what happened to me? This what happened here? You don't see everything? No. If you're part of my life, you'll know. So starting out, you had all your stuff straight? I was pretty much looked at like a female that could, you know, do a lot of things. I had my management. I learned a lot. You know what I'm saying? I went through a lot of things as a female artist, which made me eliminate people. Mm-hmm. You know what I'm saying? And I had a great attorney from the beginning. So that's how I got my, when I thought I did, you can do it. Because I'm on, you can do it with Ice Cube. Right. I'm a part owner of this song. Oh. That's 20 years old. You know what I'm saying? Okay. So that's what I'm saying. By the time I got a record deal with Universal, I already was part owner of a hit that was going to be here forever. Mm-hmm. Okay.  She used her. Oh, but it was sitting her back all. Wow. You know what I'm saying? So I felt that from there. Right. But guess what I have to have? I have to be executive producer of this first album. I have to have perks.  Mm-hmm. I won't be lost. Because my producers was like, hey, you put this album together. Wow. You know what I'm saying? My manager came in and was like talking to the label separate. This is disrespect for any woman who brings in men to take care of business in our, you know, career.  So I can get credits on this album, but she didn't talk to me. And you ain't been to one studio session.  You don't do nothing. So why am I going to play this game with people who are thirsty and starving and can't really win with the artist? Right. So that was my example before the internet came. Yeah. Because we've met so many female artists who say that, and they're trying to make it work. Some of them have had hits. But they said it's so hard being in the industry as a female, especially because people who are above you, who could help you, they're trying to, you know, hit on you. They're not trying to, you know, help you. That's gonna happen. God bless you with good DNA. But they were like, okay, in order for you to get this, you got to do this. Okay. So what is it that you need to get a song done? See, you need to go be an engineer. You need to go sit down and figure out how to work the equipment. You need to go figure out how to do the registration because they'll get all your money if you don't know how to put your songs in BMI or ASCAP. So these are things that wasn't taught, but then it was when I paid attention. You know what I'm saying? So then I had to take responsibility for my own life and my own career at the end of the day and be like, hey, they don't owe me nothing. I did an album with Universal. Shit, I got to pay release. There's a lot of artists as superstars right now. They still stuck. So God didn't play with me with this music. Wow. I think nobody's superstars. Go do this. Go do that. I want to do it. I want to do it. Let me break in here. You can do it. Put your back into it. Okay. So I know you and him worked this song together. Ice Cube. So how did y'all come up with the whole, how did this happen? Give us a break. Man, I love it. It's timeless. This work, you can listen to it and every time it's great. It sounds great. Okay. That's something you performed. Let me stop you. In Atlanta. I was on the 29th. Oh. It was my shoulder 31st. Let's do it again. I just did. I didn't want to just put it. I want to make sure they know. They know. Okay. Let's talk about it. How did the process go? Okay. I met Ice Cube before. I mean, right after I did Burn, we was in the studio. Me and Mr. Tan from Baby Boy. That's one of my other partners. That's one of my favorite movies. Right. And you know, so me and Mr. Tan, he's also, you know, the actor in the movie as well. We was like, okay, let's play our music for Cube. You know, it was like one of those West Coast things where we had a meeting with him from Terry Carter, which RIP was one of my good friends. And he was like, Miss Twa, I promise, I don't know what I'm going to do with you. I'm going to give you a Cube number. I'm going to give you Mac number. So Mac from Inglewood, like me, so I pushed that number aside and I want to go talk to Cube. Let's go see what Cube talked about. And so we bought though. It wasn't no promises made, but it was just that good West Coast going back and forth with the music. So after I did burn, came back from the comrades because he's a West Coast group. He was like, damn, Miss Twa, I had to get your connect. So me and him connect out of all of the people on the West Coast. I'm not giving my number out to everybody. You feel me? But this one rapper that I always see at everything, me and him exchange numbers and he called me to a Cube needs you to get on this hook. And I'm like, who was he came back from the. Okay. Yeah, he worked with the football league. Okay. So he's like, I'm like, where y'all at? He's like, we in Hollywood. I said, all right, well come get me. So then he like, all right, where you at? I'm in Inglewood because I need to pull up with these niggas. I'm not walking to no studio. You know what I'm saying by myself. So he's like, all right.  It's the studio is dumb. There's so many people in there. I'm just like, whatever, because I block people out anyway and go do my job. And so Cube was like, yeah, um, you know, this, this is what we doing. And I was like, all right. Hit the blunt.  And I was ready to go. You know what I'm saying? Cause I don't really like hanging. I don't know these people. I know Cube. I know a couple of people, but the producer actually was standing. You said, you said that so fast. When the booth made it happen. How fast you like that? Yeah. Is it one take? Oh yeah. I'm one take. I'm serious about this. Okay. I'm serious about this voice. Cube was like, I like your voice. That's dope. You know, these lines is going back and forth with a male and male and female on the track. Yeah. You guys got dope voices. It's no way you can go wrong. And the chemistry, the chemistry has to be there too. Yeah.  Okay. But when you working with somebody does, how much does the chemistry have to do even when the voices are great? Do you have to have a vibe with a person to be able to work with them? Yeah. I mean, when I bagged out with him a couple of years before that, I got my feel already. Okay. And I already knew I was like, all right, we're going to go in the studio.  A couple of weeks later, I heard it was a single. You know what I'm saying? So I already was in contact with my attorney and things like, you know, they spelled my name wrong. Like you said, what I go through, they spell it in my S.S. They have to get that shit, right? You know what I'm saying? But who am I? They going to spell it wrong right now. You feel me?  I won't try to get my name right because he better know it. They thought I was Lil' Kim. You know what I'm saying? They ain't giving me no credit. You feel me on the smoke? Wow. They tried to dirty back me and say I was gossiping.  When you say somebody or it's just females have to go through this stuff. No.  Especially on the road. We're not going to act like women are always the ones. You know what I'm saying? Because I'm just a few that don't care about how y'all perceive me after I do what I'm doing. You know what I'm saying? To ignore you. Because now I'm going to go against the grain. Every time you ask me to do something a certain way I'm going to kind of go against the grain a little bit because I know somebody got an agenda. Because you always hear about the females. Maybe because the females are the ones who are always complaining and saying stuff like that about the industry. We cost a lot of money. Now if you invest in your own money to keep yourself fly then it don't take them all day to go take care of business for you. You'll have more work done if you came half way prepared as women. You know what I'm saying? Don't go to your event and then you need everything done. Your hair washed. You need full makeup. You need somebody to dress you. You got to play a position in your business. This is my business. So I have to make sure I look good before somebody else try to think they can make me look good. And you are all around artists. You talk about being a female in an industry and some females what they need to do is know how to do and be the engineer and know how to do this. Now how many things in this industry do you know how to do? Okay well first of all learn how to write. Be a writer and learn how to own it by registering my music when I became an artist.  That's all somebody had to tell me one time and I believed it.  So when I first started getting my first checks from you can do it. They were small. But even my mom didn't understand that I can get paid for this and I'm not working for people. I done did this job and did that. I should trade. I gotta trade. You know what I'm saying? I'm a licensed massage therapist.  You feel me? Because even my mom is very independent with all of these kids. That's where you got it from. Of course. And my dad is a poet. That's where the music part came from. Yeah he writes poetry and books and stuff. So it's like I needed something else because I'm just determined. If I'm sitting still too long I get worried, busy, you know. So you can engineer. Can you make beats? Can you do produce? Well see me when I make beats because I am a part of the producing. You know what I'm saying? When I come up with the song first and the producer has to go behind me and make the beat, I make that track. So yeah, we are, we producing around. I produce all albums. I'm just the writer on all of the projects but as far as what I want to do, how I want to do it, my producers are phenomenal. I love that. You are absolutely wonderfully amazing. You know what I'm talking about? Let's get to it, man. You know, just to be able to go into those settings with those males, because I felt you could be a mentor to so many different young ladies. And I am. I'm talking about what I know.  You're doing them already. Send them your way. I can't help them. All your stories, man. I can give you so many different stories that we hear from these young females. And they're talented. And they're talented, but they go into these situations and they don't know how to handle themselves.  I told her, listen, this is my computer. We at home. We can do as many songs as we want to do, right?  I just want you to learn how to do it so you can be a boss. So when you leave this motherfucker, you can do it by yourself. Hey. And what did she do? She just started going live on me. Ms. Toy Game, Ms. Toy Fuck-Up Lippin'. I swear to God. I was like, you know what? You gave her something real. Listen, people want it overnight. I can't give it to you overnight.  It's my assistant. She getting off work. We work. We work your women. We take care of girls. We got to pick you up. We don't got kids over here. I got to pick you up. I got to feed you. I got to smoke weed with you and write the songs for you. My producers already gave us the truck.     If you're not contributing, you don't contribute for a long time and then you blame somebody else. That's going to be your pattern in this business. Right. So your pattern can go on past me. You can tell everybody what you want.  Exactly. So 10 people later after me, that's what's been happening to her. And I still got the 20 songs I wrote. So let's play, you know, for real in this game, like the labels play in a game, but are the artists showing up on time? Yeah. Are the artists actually contributing to their career? To their career. By writing the music that needs to be heard on the radio instead of just ratchet music, they think everybody want to hear. But the blessing part of it to me is the fact that you learn that's about the person early on in the game. Oh, yeah. Before I even released music on my label, I had my albums ready. So guess what? Miss Toye been dropping. See, I had a series and it's still available everywhere, y'all. I am a warrior. So when I got my own label, I said, you know what? This is my whole thing. So now my whole theme, I have a warrior movement that's been going on since 2014. I put out two albums in one year on my label after people disrespected me. And I've been going ever since. So I mean, I got a slew of music. They don't even know what all I got yet. You know what I'm saying? Until they catch up. But I'm not going to wait for nobody to catch up. They still listen until you can do it and you pay me. So I still can invest in myself. And show up, you know? Let me ask you, are you going to tell me how you ended up in Las Vegas ever? And are you going to tell me anything about basically was it a situation in California? I'll go back number forward to that. But I want to ask you this. When you was in Cali, was there some opportunity to open up to you that you like, dang, I wish I had took that opportunity? Or I could have worked with this person, but I went this way and this happened? No, not really, because I feel like the people I work with, I work with Jimmy Jammentary Lewis. I work with George Clinton. Drop it. Well, I just worked with Davin out here and did a video with him from Jodesy. Drop it. Who the hell can work with somebody in here? Yeah, of course.  Y'all are listening to this 2021.  That's dope. Just, I mean, and I ended up out here, because I was in my studio at home. I have Lovely Radio, where I've had Carl Thomas on my show. Wow. I've had, you know what I'm saying, some great entrepreneurs. So Lovely Radio, what is that? Is it on the radio? Sreaker.com, yeah, MissToyMusic.com. You can always catch me every Thursday. Oh, what? A Thursday for Tom. 7 p.m. Pacific Standard Time. I'm just there dropping game and jewels to the artists that love bugging me in my DM time. I'm like, listen to this. Send it to the goddamn show. You might be heard.  I don't know what y'all send to me. That's dope though, that they have a outlet that they can reach out to where someone's experienced. Absolutely. And don't mind giving them a way out or giving them some, just some advice on how you can do it, how you can be successful. That's what we can do. We can do it, right? Man, what a y'all again, girl. You can do it. She don't like to, she didn't want the East Village, and I'm sorry. I didn't disrespect your call. Oh, wait a minute. Thank you so much. Thank you. Sorry. Thank you. Thank you. Yeah, but I will. You know what I'm saying? What's your Jamaican name? No. No. No. And my Jamaican friend over there. Oh, man.  You're out here with all these, it's a lot of women out here, ladies of the night. I've seen them. I've been coming out here for years. I used to live out here, but I'm just going to be honest with you, how did you adapt in Las Vegas? Living here, because living here is two different things. See, y'all telling all my motherfuckin' business. They know my studio is here and I got the label here. I don't tell y'all motherfuckin' where I lay my head now. Shit. I'm from LA.  But I just wanted to have multiple places, too. You know what I'm saying? To be able to do what I do in my environment before I came out this way before the pandemic. Mike City, who produced Sunshine Anderson, Carl Thomas, Brandy, you know, long history and he also was a producer on my album when I was on Universal. Okay. He did the song Worker Twist with me in E40 and another joint. But he wanted to get together and put an album together. Okay. And said, you know, let's put some music in the library. Let's do a clean version. Let's do a dirty version. Let's do an instrumental and just put it in the library so we can sync up on some of these movies and commercials and stuff. So I'm like, I already know it's January. I'm ready to move. You know what I'm saying? You know, taking care of a few things. And so when he gave me this opportunity now in the midst of me doing all the things that I have to do before I leave, now I'm about to do a whole new album. Wow. So, you know, we roll in doing everything we got to do. I'm in my phone listening to the songs in the car, writing, you know. And so City said, yeah, so I want to do this album in two days. I want to have, you know, everything done and turned in so I can put all the stuff in the system so that when the next drop come, we can have the music already in there. Wow. It's a big problem, City. So I get to work, work. Yeah. So when it's the first session, you know, I do, I think eight songs. Wow. I do three of the songs that first night and then I finish the rest of them into the second section. City like, man, this is crazy. You know what I'm saying? We got everything turned in. And then before that, another producer of mine, we have a song that we did and we do the same thing. It makes it on All American. Wow.  I need to really put some stuff in this album. I know we're going to get picked up. So no sooner than we drop that album, Woke, Hulu, another track from Mike City's album. You know what I'm saying?  I'm in these movies. Yes, awesome.  Awesome. We can sing, you know. So this time it's like now, I wasn't at my studio yet. You know what I'm saying? So I had to go to Mike City Studio, get in the studio, drop those songs. So my thing was in the next five or six months, I need to be at home in my own studio. So once he asked me this again or any of my other producers, I'll be ready. You know what I'm saying? So I'm calling around everywhere. I'm like, so I need to get my studio what I need. I need it. You know what I'm saying? So I get everything together. So now I've been dropped all kinds of songs. Dropped about 40 songs last year. Wow. Other albums, singles, features and everything. So this year city like, you know what? He just called me the other day. Shit. It was last month. It's the other day to me because it was the end of the month and he was like, let's do some more. So I just finished a new album called, you know, HBIC. HBIC. Boston Charge. Work. And that's seven songs that are going to come out September 10th. Wow. That's some real Boston talk, right? I know because when he said Boston talk. Boston charge. We might need to put it on a hook somewhere. Introduction. I already thought about it. I'm going to make y'all a song too. Man. That would be so dope. Payback should have told y'all. Say, man. I'm already on it. The person that you heard on there, that's Exo Music. She's out of Dallas, but she's so dope. Absolutely. Absolutely wise. Oh, no. Y'all keep her too. No, no. We got a few. We got a few. My boy came from Florida and he hit us like that. Oh, yeah. With some boss toe. No. You're born in Florida, but you live in Atlanta. So we got some songs. Exactly. Our lovely radio got a couple of joints too. Oh, yeah. So you got to have a talk. I need that. I got a theme song. Man, I'm coming to see you. I'm going to bless you too. You ain't going to just bless me. Believe that. I'm coming at you. That's the way we get out. Yeah, because I have some incredible people that we could talk about on our show. And just some of the stuff that y'all learn. I know y'all get a lot of emails and feedback from some of the stuff. I know you're going to get some feedback from me because I don't get to hear from me often. Man, that's true. And we just started doing this in January. Six months, man. When people look at what we do and have the quality and everything, they're like, nah, y'all really been doing this? And we've been dropping, we have over 200 episodes from January. That's a lot of work. No, that's work.  Stop writing, but don't put that out there. See. Some of them may not come out. They looking for the interviews. Oh, yeah. I like them, man. I love them actually. We do good work.  No, we're going to put it out. No, that's content, y'all. Check this out. You got content later. You never talk on the right day. I'm kind of romantic with it. I ain't going to lie. I like to put it out. You know, I like to put it out when I want to put it out. Let them put it out when I want to do that. I love all the people. Look up and see yourself and be like, That's me. That's the right time. But so Vegas life. Is it fastest people think it is? Like just being out here all the time, frequent in the city. Is this going to be on? They don't hear this right.  I don't. I'm from LA, Chicago.  Wow. It's too hot. I'm in the AC. It is hot out here. I came here to work. I came here to work. I got a parent here, payback here.  That's when they're going to see me doing stuff. Look at this opportunity to write without no distractions. Work with no distractions. Be at peace. Cook. Chill. Be in my theater. Chill and be a person. Because all of these years of hustling or working and doing all of this for other people, I don't have to do that no more. And it's not far from home. Oh no. Shit, I just left. It's right up the street. I just came from Atlanta and I just came from LA. Literally. Days ago. Monday. Wow. I make a move. Entertainment. It's G.O. Getting opportunities. Giving opportunities. That's my label. I like that. I go. I stay on the go. I'm always doing something like my new single. Always into something. Featuring Jackie Badd. I'm shooting my video here on the 21st of this month. Wow. Because you always into something. I'm always into something. Got it. Got it. Got it. It was a savvy answer right there. Always into something. I'm serious. The name Miss Toy. Where is it? Is that always been your name Miss Toy? Or did you start out with another? You know a lot of people change your name over the years. My name is. Okay. When I was little. My mom didn't confuse me. I thought my name was Toy. T.O.I. Right. It is. But I have Keon attached to it. So when I was 13. I was like. Lady.  I've been telling everybody my name. So. Toy Keon. And I said. Okay. I love it. Let me make up a signature. So in high school after I got my name. I had my little doctor's little. I have a little superstar signature. Before I was a superstar. Doctor's scribble. The scribble. I had a whole scribble in high school. Uh huh. Not even knowing I was going to be somebody's celebrity. I don't even care about that. But I already was practicing. Uh huh. But Miss Toy came from. You know. Me and Miss T.O.I. Because Miss T.O.I. He wanted this name. His name is O.L.I. But he was like Tangerine. Or something was going on with his name. T.O.I. And so I'm. They looking at me like. I'm not going to be nobody else but Miss Toy. I'm sorry.     So I can't have no made-up name. I like the Miss Toy. I'm just going to sign that toy key on them. Checks. And that Miss Toy is just what it is. And I love that because a lot of women were like. You know what? Your name. It represents a lot of respect. And most people probably didn't get it. You know what I mean? In the beginning like. I don't want respect just. When y'all knew I blew up. I wanted throughout my whole life. I want my flowers all the way through. My grandmother is 92 years old. They still have her here. I have her here. And I've just seen her in Atlanta. You are blessed. So when I tell you I have a huge following in family already. Besides the music people. I already have that. So a lot of people distance from their families. They don't know their family. They don't know where they come from. They don't know how precious having your elders and people give you jewels along the way.  I got expelled from school. I dropped. You know what I'm saying? I knocked some people out. This and stuff. Straight gangster. But yeah. How you know me? You know what I mean? Do you know me? Oh no. I know you get to it. You know what I mean? I wanted to change. Because I wanted to make my mom happy. I wanted her conversation about me to be different. You know. It was always. What's the way doing? What's she been doing?  You know. And it was just kind of like. You got siblings? Yes. So how many are you the next one? I'm the second oldest of six. My dad also has three other daughters. So your mama gave birth to six kids? My mom gave birth to four. And then I got siblings that came with my pops. Oh, I thought it was an excuse. My daddy was a Pisces. And he got the real of the daughters. Now we can start the video. You can start the video now. Let me ask you this. Do you, when the music changed. Because you've seen it. You was in it when it was just the CDs. And you know. And it transformed into the digital world. You know. And streaming became a thing. You know, ringtone before that. How did you adjust and how do you like where it's at? I just did by getting consultation on how to be an engineer. Because everybody's still going to make money recording. And though I wasn't recording other people for money. I started to learn how to do it for myself. And so when that transition happened. I had people around me that wasn't believing into the new system. And plus already was getting checks. They don't. They just amateur rappers.  So it burned a lot of bridges.  They don't want change. But it creates opportunity at the same time. But I am very optimistic about things that's happening. Especially if I'm aware of it. Like my mom used to work for AT&T, SBC, all it. You know what I'm saying? Pacific bail. Every transition the phone company did. My mom worked for her. She was a manager. So technology always been a part of my family. Wow. So you did adjust and you adjusted. I mean, are you on Instagram and all that? Doing anything? Absolutely. Yeah. Are you engaged when your last post? I don't have to post as much.  That's good. So I'm kind of how they would when it comes to. It's the same thing. I just went live earlier before I came here. You know what I'm saying? They saw me on live earlier because when I'm about to do something, I kind of get more friendly with Instagram and Facebook, like my Facebook music page, you know, finally catching up on to the numbers where I can get paid. And those are things that matter to me. Yeah. If I'm on there and I'm able to monetize because I own my music. Exactly.  That's why. That's why I was asking about it. Hell yeah. Because you got to get on there.  Oh, yeah. We just have to be privy of it. You know what I mean? They want to see you. They want to know what's going on. They don't see me. You know what I'm saying? You know that they going to see you. But you know what I love about the live nowadays? Because for me personally, what kills my relationship with any artist is that I love your music and I listen to it like crazy.  Yeah. All of a sudden? No, not you. No, I love missing people like that too. All of a sudden, I don't want to listen to you anymore. I don't want to deal with you. And I'm like, why are you even in this business? You know you have to deal with your fans. But I love live because you can tell the ones who are like that because they don't hardly go on live. Because you can't hide that personality on live. Yeah, you can't.  People love you. You love God. All of the good stuff. You know what I'm saying? They want to see beauty. You know what I'm saying? They want to see something. Like I'm goofy, so. Yeah, oh yeah.  You know what I'm saying?  So top three artists of all terms, any genre? No. Number one, top three artists. We got to have them. You got to tell Prince. I photo Tupac. He ain't that quick. And Nipsey now. Wow. Because that business sense that he did, you know, it's so real to me. So you. Payback said Prince as well, but he did Michael Jackson. Michael Jackson. Then Prince. And who was his third again? You said Tupac. Yeah. Number one. I love her. I love her. I met him. He was getting undressed. I knew you. Yeah, I knew it. I met him in person before he died and I told him I was coming and he was like, I'm going to look out for you. But then he died. They took him away. Wow. So I started working harder. Every producer I worked with. Damn near work with Tupac.   Wow. I love him. You know, I hate to use that reference, but I really respect how he kind of raised me as far as I had sounds in my car around that age when Tupac was real popular. So every line that he was spitting now that I'm an artist, I feel that. You know what I'm saying? I feel like he trained me. Wow. And no other artist really or producer have trained me. I work with Dr. Dre as well, too, though. Wow. How was that, though? No, let me get it. Yeah, I need to know. How was that? No, I come for Dr. Dre. I don't care what y'all. I said, man, you got a billion dollars off right at. He can slap your wife right now.  I ain't gonna do all that. No, they're gonna get it. I know, I know. That's a problem. It was cool. Actually, that song, I just want to fuck. Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's a girl version, Dr. Dre. Wow. That she haven't never released. That the fans would love to hear. Wow. Me, yo, yo, truth hurts. We're all on that song. And he put it up. He's chefed it.  That's why I wasn't ever his artist. I wasn't ever Ice Keep artist. I wasn't ever Mac-Teen artist. Wow. I'm all... Yeah, because you could control your narrative. Absolutely. Tell them what they probably do. They got baby mamas.   But why don't they have all the music and show fit for it? What are they gonna do with it? Why not release it? I don't know. I don't know. Shit. Maybe his ex-wife might find it later. You know, that's a, that's a trip because what you said, you know, they, they do have those encounters with the people that they are in a act with. And when you are stern and you step up and say, hey, I'm gonna do this business and that's it. They don't want to see you get that bag after that. After that rejection.   That's the truth. I'm telling you. I know what's going on. You need to find your own way.  But when you tell it to you later. But when you tell it to you, you can just keep going. Yeah. I was thankful that I turned down. No. No. So, how was it working? And because we can talk about that. How was it working in the studio with Dre?  There was a lot of people in there, you know. It's always a lot of people. I like working in chaos a little bit sometime. It kind of makes me, you know, like it drives me to be greater. You know what I'm saying? You know what I'm saying?  Ain't no telling. And I know they don't work like me. You know what I'm saying? So, we're getting a booth. And, you know, Dre, like, yeah, do the line.  And I'm like, okay. So, he does give pointers. Uh-huh. Oh, yeah.   You want them to love it. You want them to mix it.  Right. I got paid. You know what I mean? Yeah. So that's dope that you got to do that. A lot of people would love to be on tour.  I learned how to be on tour like no other. Like, I literally was on a music boot camp. I didn't have nobody with me. What did Ice Cube say to you that was impactful? That you feel like you took from it? I know you said Tupac said something. But what did Ice Cube say to you? Anything? Or what did he do? He could have done something. He said, well, he actually showed me some things. He had an instant replay machine back then. You could program all your music in it and stuff. So when I got signed to Universal, I was on the up and smoke tour. So my first investment was an instant replay machine. Wow. So I bought the instant replay machine so my DJ can go find my music. I don't like chaos at the booth.  And so I took pointers from him. And then when the tour was over, he said, talk to everybody now. You know what I'm saying? You never know who you're going to, you never know if you're going to see anybody again. But that was real important because I do work with people. I reach out. You know what I'm saying? And I also allow new artists to work with me as well. Wow. That's good. So Ron DeVoe. Let's talk about that just for a second. Ron DeVoe dancing Ron DeVoe. Yeah. He used to play cars in Domino's in my house. Oh, Domino's. Oh, Domino's. Oh, Domino's. But Ron DeVoe, so you and him, what was it? Is it anything that sticks out?  Are you going to Domino's? Well, I don't play games no more. I'm from Texas, man. Listen, I'm in Vegas and I don't even gamble, so don't ask me. So what did he do that stood out? I feel like his natural charisma, you know, even though he was a big star back then, he was so humble.  And he was a big star back then to us. I get it. He is a legend now. Correct. Right. And so that made me really realize, like, man, you know, I really have a good rapport with certain people in his business and they feel comfortable being around me and my family, you know what I'm saying? And so when we did do the song because my dude, who I was dating at the time, drove a limo. Okay. So I was in limousines even before I was famous. Wow. I was like in a limo going to the store to the right angle. Just regular shit, right? Yeah. And he came home and he was like, I was rapping.  And he was like, damn, babe, you know, I drive for these celebrities. Next time I get somebody in the car, I'm going to tell them about you. And so it was Ronnie DeVos uncle, Brooklyn. Okay. So he was my first manager and that's how I ended up meeting Ronnie. Wow. Did you meet Ronnie, Bobby, Ricky, and Mike? Well, Mike. Did you meet all of them? I didn't. But I didn't meet everybody at the same time. Even when I was, you see, I'm going to get down. When I was on Universal, Michael Bivens had this group called Transitions. And so they're on my album because of Mike. Because he came in my session when I was on Universal and I was in New York.  Already, man. That's a good thing, though, to be able to meet all of them. And, you know, but you still, but Ron stands clear because he really, really was, you know, hanging out with absolutely. Absolutely. And that song and why it inspired me is because the lifestyle of the rough and sexy, he was taking a chance on being a rapper. Knowing that he already was in an R&B group. R&B group, yeah. And in this business, they don't like for you to change. Change, yeah. So I respected him going against the grain of his group to be a rapper because later on, BVD came along. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, I just feel proud to be a part of him, his struggle of being a rapper to make it to another plateau in his career. I think that's dope. See, I always feel like God bring people in your life for a reason, for you to learn something from it. People always feel like, oh, I wish I didn't meet that person. I wish, you know, that was a bad situation. But it's because you're clouded with anger. You're not seeing... The benefit. The benefit. The lesson that needs to be learned, you know what I mean? Yeah. I know you've worked with a lot of different people. I hear you talking about a lot of males that you've worked with, but you haven't really mentioned a lot of females that you've worked with. What does she mean to you? Yo, yo, yo. Yo, yo, yo. Payback actually to produce this track. Set it off with me, yo, yo. Sugar Tea and Suki Fine. Mmm. So, and then I have songs with the Five Footers. Okay. I also, I'm about to do a video with Philly's own Jackie Bad. She's Reed Dollars' wife. Wow.  If you don't own your music, you will not work with me. Wow. So I have a lot of females that I own. If you don't own it, you won't work with you because it's more difficult to make things happen. I'm gonna put it out if you don't own yourself. That's what I'm talking about. I can't put it out. It's my music. I want you to, you know, I want to be able to put it out and, you know, give you some shine and recognition and stuff that's going on in hip hop because all people have to do is see you drop the music and see the data set 2021. Oh, yeah, yeah. So, young girl, if you could go back to that young girl that was just starting out. Yeah, what would you say to her to get her prepared for what she was about to face for us coming forward from about 18 or so, 17? I'd be like, do it harder. Then do whatever you was doing to get where you was at. Just go harder. Don't even be scared of nothing. It's nothing to fear. Wow. Wow. Thank you so much. I love y'all. Man, you can stop. Don't try to take my line. I love y'all. I love to be able to chop it up. We love you. It don't feel like an interview when it's like... No, no. We're kicking it. You know what I'm saying? We're just chilling, you know? That's a discussion. Yeah, yeah, yeah. But we love you and definitely love... Hey, when we back in Vegas, we got to get her to show us where we are in Cali. Where the food's at, you know? Because we like good food, you know? And if you can cook, we might come by, we'll pull up. We'll pull up, right? Yeah, yeah, yeah.  You know what I'm saying? We can all eat good food, trust me. Hey, man, thank you so much for coming on the show, man. For sure. For sure. It's been another great segment of Boss Talk 101. And we have.


Clear cell renal cell carcinoma, CCRCC, is the most common form of kidney cancer worldwide. It is often treated with surgical removal of the affected organ, but up to a third of patients have metastatic disease and 25% experience a recurrence within five years. Targeted therapy drugs, such as tyrosine kinase inhibitors, TKIs, and immune checkpoint inhibitors, ICIs, are used to treat advanced cases. Additionally, the tumor microenvironment, TME, is composed of both malignant and non-malignant cells, which interact and influence each other's behavior. These interactions may contribute to the development of resistance to immunotherapeutics, suggesting that understanding the interplay between these cells could lead to improved treatments. This article was authored by Francesco La Sorsa, Monica Ritigliano, Martina Mellella, and others.


I'm so happy to see all of you today. Guys had a great time with the reception yesterday? Yeah? No? Maybe? Don't remember? Well, I'm so happy you decided to join. Today we will be talking about how to lead projects and open source teams with better feedback. And I'm assuming everyone knows about feedback. We've just gotten feedback on either their code or their paper or something else. So we're going to be looking at how we can improve the feedback loop to kind of get both positive and negative feedback. And we'll dive into that and then we'll look at how to actually deliver it. But first, a little bit about me for people that don't know. My name is Jessica. I'm in my 20s and I'm currently studying computer science. Other than that, I started doing tech and coding from a very, very early age. So I have kind of been on the sideline looking in the open source space for a long time. I've done open source projects before I can even remember. I'm also a maintainer of Pipandop, which is a very popular Python library. That's a wrapper around the Pipandop document converter. Recently in 2023, I joined the GitHub accelerator program, which was a program hosted by GitHub where they took a bunch of projects and put us through a 10-week program to try to find new ways to do sustainable open source, more focus on the financial side. And this summer I had a software engineer internship at Uber where I learned everything about distributed systems and how to work in a team. And that is where probably a lot of stories will come from as well as having to, as well as me having to give feedback to a lot of people from a very early age because people look at their eyes. You'll probably notice something a little bit peculiar. I'm fully blind. We're ensuring that I have to basically be a first for many people. So whenever I've been in contact with institutions, teachers, colleagues, we've always had to work together to try to figure out how to do things and it's usually been me that's been in the position where I've had to give them feedback on how they're doing. So based on that, I feel I have a good basis to talk about this, but we'll see. So what we'll be covering today. We'll take a look at what feedback is as well as we'll try to dive deep into the actual definitions and the different type of feedback that we can give each other, both as maintainers to contributors and contributors in between. Then we'll take a look at what a wider implication of good feedback actually means for the ecosystem as a whole. And then we'll look at how to deliver it, how to phrase it, what to do, what not to do. And we can look at, we'll look at how to combine them and deliver and then at the end there'll be some time for Q&A hopefully. Feedback and open source. Feedback is the way we communicate with each other to describe if something is good, bad, negative or positive and there is a very sharp distinction between those. The entire ecosystem is based on feedback because that's the way we actually collaborate. We always come with suggestions. Just the act of coming with a suggestion to other people's work is a kind of feedback. Without feedback we do not have any opportunity to help each other grow or to help the ecosystem as a whole thrive and continue forward. The talk here will be mainly focused on from a maintainer to a contributor perspective of feedback as well as contributor to contributor. This works both in smaller open source projects and also in larger organizations with inter-team relations. So the difficulties about giving feedback is we don't everyone have the exact same background. I will almost guarantee that everyone in this room right now has their own experiences that they have lived through, their own challenges, the things that they're good at and the things that they're bad at. Because of that it can be easy if feedback is not delivered in the correct way to come into very easy and harmful miscommunication that can lead to demotivation and discouragement for continuing working on open source. I've had the same in my own experiences where a bad example of feedback can both be on the negative side where you have a code review as an example where the only thing people point out is all the things you need to change.  Yeah. Yeah. That can be very discouraging. But the opposite is also true. Where the only thing people say this will be also more contributed in the staff skills maybe where people only talk about your good sides. Is there anyone that's had that happen but people only give you positive feedback? Yeah. That can also be very challenging when we're getting into that. Maybe so. That positive feedback is all the good things the things we get told we get at. It feels very good to be told you're very something. It boosts your confidence of course it makes you want to continue contributing to whatever you are doing that be a project or a team and of course it promotes a positive environment if it runs positive then that means that your team as a whole is going to be very happy. It can feel really good after a long time of negativity to get something positive. Imagine after a code review you get told something positive that can feel very good but as I said it can also be very bad in the sense that you don't actually have anything to work on if the only thing you get told that you're good at things well I'm already good at those things so what am I going to work on? So the example is just this especially if they don't actually describe what's especially if they describe they don't actually describe what is good like with the example we have it's just this is looking good but that's the bad example whereas the good example can be it looks good and then they actually describe what you did well so you know what you need to continue working on so the impact of negative feedback negative feedback is the sense that that's the things you need to work on so again negative feedback can be very easy to miscommunicate or it can also if you get too much of it at the same time it can also make you feel really bad it can get you very down it can get you demotivated and discouraged it can get you want to not contribute as as open as much as you actually wanted to initially but this is where the key is because this negative feedback is how we all grow but the main key is that it needs to be delivered correctly a good example I've had in my personal experience while I worked at Uber was a code review that sounded absolutely horrible in text but that was because again it was in text it was very easy to misunderstand so a bad example of that is just saying I don't like it, change it have anyone had that happen before? I don't like this line of code, change it but they don't actually explain what's wrong with it and what they don't like about it so you kind of have to read their mind which is very bad whereas the good example is that they explain what it actually is that they think is wrong and they give you a call to action that's not just they do this they actually suggest so the broader implications as a whole when people get good feedback and they can feel they're growing they feel as a part of a community whereas if they don't get any feedback or no one actually comments on their things they just feel like they're screaming into that echo chamber in addition they also get very energized to work if people interact with you you naturally get more energized and more happy that people are actually happy for your contributions so in addition to that good feedback also have a waterfall effect where when people actually receive good feedback they will naturally adopt that way of giving feedback as well because one it feels good but they can also feel like you're growing so that will also make them in the future try to adopt the same style of feedback when they have to give it to people if positive feedback if good feedback is giving it would also result in really amazing growth both for the community as a whole and as for the individual contributor they'll also want to come back to your project if you get them good feedback that where it has both positive and negative sides they'll both have something to feel good about while still having something to work on that will make them want to come back to have even more contributing factor in your project as well as maybe talking to other people about your project because of the amazing community some practical tips for giving actual positive feedback positive feedback is most often seen on the software side on the human side of things in many cases we forget to give positive feedback in code reviews as an example tell people if they're doing something right in the code if they have a good implementation of something tell them that you really like how they wrote it or how they implemented this solution to our specific problem that will make them feel good and it doesn't take much more than a few seconds also tell them they do something right either tell them that they're doing something right but don't overdo it that can be reversed very quickly to coming off as being condescending just the main key here is the positive feedback is useless for the receiver unless there's a why tell them why the youth gets good tell them why what they're doing is good and why they should continue as an example it's good that someone can be proactive because it helps getting things done quickly and it's great for everyone to take initiative or good that someone has an eye for detail because it helped us solve this bug that we've been having problems with for the last month and last do it without comparing to yourself don't start talking about what you would have done but there was good what they did just have them actually as we look at the example again they come with a why we like how they implemented it because it takes care of the S cases and while still keeping track of performance there's no comparing it's a good symbol it's good because of something and that fulfills all the criteria for positive side of feedback so tips for giving negative feedback that can be summed up pretty easily people will naturally remember negative things because that's what sticks in their brain but also it's the main thing they work on or can improve on so on the same side it's good as long as there's not too much of it the same holds true for positive as well as negative as not comparing to yourself or say that we don't or I don't in the team try to come up with suggestions ask them first why they think it's actually bad what they've implemented or then afterwards come with suggestions or ask how we can solve it as a team or as an individual contributor and if they still can't come up with anything after giving them ample time to think about it then you can start suggesting them suggestions to improve again with the example just I don't like it change it to I don't think it's a good implementation that first of all opens the floor for a conversation instead of an ask or a tell you explain why you don't think it's good but still they end up with a call to action what can we do to fix it which again it still fulfills negative criteria there's something to work on but it sounds much harder than just a direct ask or tell and telling you that you're just bad so sorry if I make you guys hungry but the main way we can remember giving good feedback that incorporates both positive and negative sides of feedback is by utilizing a sandwich method where we start with positive and then negative and then positive again so why is this necessary as we gone over if you only give someone positive feedback there's nothing to improve on and that might be good but in the short term but in the longer term it will stagnate the project or the team and have no one either individual or team grow but the inverse is also true if you only have negative that will very quickly have people want to leave your team or just not want to contribute as much as they did in the past so positive and why don't we just give them positive and then negative feedback well pretty simple they'll hyper focus on the negative have anyone of you maybe had that happen where you have positive and then negative feedback and you totally forgot the positive because you hyper focus on the negative yeah that's a very common thing we tend to put way more value on negative things so we forget the positive even though it was just said so positive and negative and then positive that's the way to go because if you also just have negative and positive people tend to also just ignore the negative because the positive was said at the end so if you have a method where you do positive and then negative and positive you ensure that people have something to work on while still being praised for their work without it being too much so I have a very funny story about that from my own experiences working both as an open source maintainer and also in a actual big tech company so the story boils down to I have a talk with my manager where he started giving me positive feedback and then he gave me negative and doused up and I had a really bad feeling for the rest of that day because I only remember the negative so it also ensures that your maintainers or contributors won't have the rest of the day where they just feel down because of this feedback so delivering feedback so delivering feedback in a physical space can also be very challenging not just because of the words we say but also how we compose ourselves so very quick tips to help improve that is don't sit opposite each other that way it feels less like a confrontation or more like a conversation if you sit either beside each other or to the side of each other and regardless of if you are at the positive or in the negative side of the method just keep a smile on because at the end of the day it's a conversation and also we don't like being around negativity so people will naturally close themselves off to whatever you have to say and again keep your composer nice keep it in warming and inviting with your palms upwards at least so you have a warm and inviting attitude while you talk and last keep a friendly tone and keep it casual just don't start sounding angry or upset or raise your voice because that only has the opposite effect of closing people off to whatever you are saying an example I have with myself with keeping it casual was when I had my feedback sessions with my manager it was called the formal feedback session that sounds very scary so how do we deliver it online if it's on a video platform such as Zoom or others it works very much in the same way keep a smile on or keep a friendly tone keep it casual if it's on text though spell checking is always a good idea at least that way if it's too hard to read what you wrote they just will skip it or ignore it it also leaves room for easy miscommunication or misunderstanding if people think you wrote something else than you actually did also don't imply anything or just assume they know if you need to refer to something just talk about it not like the thing or you know or actually spell out that you're referring to issue whatever or the thing that happened on this day or like the and of course a good way to always end feedback is they're always welcome to follow up with any additional questions they might have and of course just like in physical spaces the method, the sandwich method that we saw earlier can also still be applied here so in quick summary and conclusion good feedback consists of both positive and negative good feedback has a waterfall effect where people in the future will remember your feedback style and naturally give it on to to someone else positive or negative feedback can't stand alone it needs to be combined just remember to be open and inviting whenever giving people feedback remember it's a conversation where you can grow as the giver you can learn how to manage people, how to give feedback and where the recipient also can grow their skills at and there are other like more software skills and then we have a little time for Q&A if someone have any questions you can just yeah realize this was a little easier for smaller audience but anyone have any questions? yeah I have a question very excellent presentation thank you Jessica and my question is that you just mentioned what's the good or bad example of feedback I'm considering how to perceive those bad or good feedback in the community automatically because we can receive a lot of different feedbacks from issue, from poor request and everyday so I don't think we have enough time to perceive those feedback it's good or bad case by case or issue by issue, poor request review by review they are in a way to perceive that quickly or efficiently thank you okay so to answer that the very some small steps we covered as well that you can start implementing today to make sure that we don't have to go through this process of trying to identify it as feedback givers make sure to both talk about what they can improve but also what they did well that way we kind of mix and match like both of them this mostly applies to stuff like code reviews or if you are in a bigger organization and manage people and you have to hit KPIs or something like that or talking about the actual issue at hand where poor requests that's more where you can start actually going in and reviewing and giving feedback to people I hope that answered your question thanks you mentioned in your introductions that you were, that you are a maintainer of PyPandoc what type of feedback have you received from the python community that I've received both feedback and assistance in the sense that people told me when python 2 reached their end of life they said python 2 is bad, remove it but again that's one side I also got assistance for that many times when I'm a co-changer I leave it up for a few for a week or so mostly for people to comment if they have suggestions because I'm the maintainer I could just merge it right away but in that way we actually I ensure that people are on board with the changes I decide to make or the way I have decided to fix an issue usually the kind of feedback I get is from either from people that either ask clarifying questions or they suggest other ways to do it and that's where we can again have that conversation where we can understand where you're coming from and we can together find the best way moving forward thank you and to follow up on that you said that you'll usually wait a week for people to comment on a PR before you merge it do you just wait that week or do you reach out to the community to say hey this is a pretty big new feature that someone has put in what do you all think are you proactive or do you just kind of sit back and if nothing comes you just merge and how do you make that decision on which way to go typically if there's already an issue an issue out for it I'll tack the original kind of discussion the people that had the discussion in the issue and say hey there's a poll request out for it feel free to let me know what you think about it if it's a new feature where there's not an issue already I typically go to the pandoc discussion groups there because they know of me already I make a poster saying hey I have this poll request for the python wrapper of it what do you guys think should I do anything differently if there's an ongoing discussion already or I have to be the one that takes that initiative thank you hey Jessica thanks a lot for the presentation there is a lot of good things to I'm going to consider for my future feedback so the question that I have is as a maintainer how do you deal with the apathy when the I mean you mentioned about receiving good or feedback or bad feedback but what about those cases where the contributors or the people are not willing to share any feedback at all like neither good one or bad one so how do you encourage to the contributors or to the maintainers to provide feedback yes so that's almost in a topic in itself I can give you a few pointers but we can also talk about it offline if that would be better but the few pointers I have found useful is have of course open discussions don't just use issues as an example issues on github or githlab to just for code things or things that are not working but use them as a way to actually gather feedback started an issue where you ask okay we have a new upcoming version we have these features and what do you guys think what should we prioritize first like keep the discussion open and don't just limit it to code specific and I think it also both a way to share feedback openly on github but also get in contact with the maintainer team or you if you're a single maintainer just like privately through twitter or something else to make that obvious in the readme as well should be under the contributor heading or in the code on the contributing like file how people can provide feedback and make it clear that we are not just looking for code specific feedback but also feedback about governance or documentation or similar other non-code related topics but again it's a whole thing in itself how to actually get people interested so we can talk much more about that offline if you want of course there's the thing with feedback and gut feeling which is really hard because you said that bad feedback is I don't like it change that but sometimes when you know software and somebody changes something and you have the gut feeling that this is not a good choice but you cannot really explain then it's hard to give feedback on that yes I totally understand that point but I make the counterpoint that there's always a reason for wanting to change something either because it's not a best practice or because there must be something that we can link to or say it's not a good idea because I don't know these people had it before and it's just that didn't go well for them or something like that there must be there's always a reason for gut feeling whether we remembered or not we have probably read it or seen it somewhere before I'm not discounting your question or your feelings I just have a very strong belief that everything happens if we got feeling we get is for a reason but again the other thing is like then switch it around and say okay I don't think it's the optimal solution can we find another solution that solve this problem better because that way you are letting them know that it's not actually their thing that's bad you just think it couldn't be done in a smarter way without putting the blame on them if that makes sense thank you for the talk first of all when talking about this feedback cycle basically for pull request or something like that I guess especially for larger open source projects there is now more and more bots basically involved in the conversation right you push your merge request and the first thing that you get back is a very angry linter telling you this is not the right thing to do and I guess like people in IT tend to accept this part to a certain point because it's not a human giving feedback but it's an angry linter and it's a machine right yeah that's just funny but what is the like general what is your opinion on this limit there because like I had personally experienced invested a lot of time into writing code and I had the feeling after some weeks only talking to bots there basically telling me yeah this is not good this is not good that is not good do you have a feeling there's a like a limit where human interaction is needed to a certain point for pull request or do you have a feeling there you first have to pass this this bar of the machine needs to be happy and then humans can join the feedback cycle yeah so for the first half I think it's definitely important if at all possible for these bots to give the context so many times when we see these lenders it's just it's bad but yeah okay we have like code coverage of your your your pull request give code coverage of 82% but what's the standard in the project is the standard like if his standard is 95% and then there's maybe something to work on but if his standard is 75% then all of a sudden you're doing really well and I have seen many projects where they use these automated bots, linters, code coverage, test reviewers and so on but they don't actually provide any insight into what is the standard how's the master branch looking with code coverage like how are we doing on main are we are we back are we like behind or forwards it's all about the like reference point so I would say if at all possible if to change the bots to link to the like the coverage or the lending before the the the pull request or put it in the main read me for the second half I definitely think that even though the bots are being angry at you humans like shouldn't wait until the bots are happy we're coming with feedback constructive code code or non-code review and feedback I definitely think as soon as the pull request is open that that loop can begin regardless of the bots the bots are here to ensure like automated code quality but they're not there to reason about the actual functionality of the code so I think they can run in parallel thank you of course we have a little more time is there time for one more question yeah that's plenty of time as a woman and as someone who is unsighted unsighted do you do you think you receive feedback differently from your peers and if so what are ways you think that people can equalize the playing field and how they provide feedback to everyone and not just you as a woman or you as a person who is unsighted yeah it goes back to what I said earlier about keeping the standards for the project for the team like open and available for everyone like if you're working in a cooperation and you need to hit KPIs or similar keep those KPIs open for the team or at least if you can't do that because it's individual to everyone then have a company wide average for your position if you're a junior or a senior software engineer then have an average so you know what you should hit so you know you're not getting low-bold or high-bold depending on your diversified circumstances and on the other hand it also just comes down to trust and see people talk about you're the one that's giving you the feedback are they getting really good feedback while you're getting like trashed or is the other way around that they're circuit coding it for you while actually giving more constructive feedback and of course second thing is you're always welcome to tell the people that's giving you the feedback how well you receive that feedback again it's an open conversation and you're allowed to give them feedback about their feedback to you as well I hope that answered the question if we can always talk about it offline I would love to thank you time for two more questions maybe if anyone has any maybe yeah thanks for your talk I wanted to switch this a little bit when we talk mostly about contributors right now so how about feedback from users because we are a little bit more on buffed the stack so that users directly interact with our project and I think we have okay feedback culture with the maintainers and contributors but we have sometimes problems with users because they expect basically enterprise support from a free time open source project what are your thoughts on how to provide feedback for them that this is not to be expected well first of all I've had some experience from that from the good hub accelerator program so if you want to dive into that later I would be happy to have a chat with you well there's two sides one if they expect enterprise support if it's like a tool that's using your software in a small medium or large business then give them enterprise support figure out how you can make it financially viable and build from there but if you are not interested in that give them specific criteria to give you feedback give them like a form it's really difficult to figure out what you're going to get if you just say hey give us feedback and then a form where they can just write whatever ask like what do you think is good what can be improved, what are your annoyances what are you happy about give them actual more specific sub prompts of specific things you want to measure yeah we use this GitHub template for discussions so basically the issues are closed off for continuing a normal landing page for users in other discussion pages with templates but usually they ignore it then I would honestly say send them a nice message in the issue say hey please use the template and if they keep ignoring it then just say we have a template for a reason please refer to our contributor guide like how to provide your issues I'm sorry but you need to follow the template be nice about it but be firm in your boundaries and then close the issue ok thanks you do this with labor space but thanks for your feedback I think that's all we have time for today but if anyone wants to ask me more questions I'll be around here for a little longer right outside the room but if not I'm so happy that so many came out thank you everyone for your time thanks for listening