And welcome to show, man. How are you doing? I'm doing good, man. Nice to meet you. I, um, when you contacted me, I never heard of you, but I started looking into you and I was really impressed. Yeah. Yeah. I first heard of your, thank you. I first heard of your tweet. I think it was through Vin Armani. I had him on the show and, uh, I started following you. Then I realized you guys had a website, uh, Libertarian Institute.org.  Here we go. Right up my alley. Yeah. Vin is, Vin's a good friend. Actually, in six hours, I'm going to be on zoom with him. We're going to do a live stream tonight. So, yeah, we, we did one about a month ago talking about, talking about Corona hell and he and I are pretty much on the same page is what we think is going on. And so tonight we're just going to do an update on that and, uh, see if we can compare notes, see if we're still on the same page. So what do you think is going on? Oh, I just think it's a massive power play. I think it's a massive power play towards UBI, universal health care. And that's not the worst of it. I mean, you know, as an agorist, as an anarchist, as a Libertarian, I think UBI is a terrible idea because I understand economics. Same thing for Medicare, but that's not the worst of what's coming. I mean, it's the, the technocracy that I see coming, uh, the medical technocracy, the, I was on Dave Smith's part of the problem back in January. And we were talking about just security and freedom, liberty. And I said to him, I said, what do you think would happen if tomorrow there was another 9-11? What do you think would happen to our freedoms? And what's just happened and what's happening now? I couldn't even imagine because I think it's 10 times worse than 9-11. Then another 9-11 would have been because people, it's, it's an invisible enemy. And I know Trump's actually taken to tweeting, taken to tweeting that phrase. And I've been saying that for over a month, uh, when I first heard about all, when I first started realizing what was happening, um, I knew that this was going to turn into a medical police state very much like what China has now, you're going to, they're going to want to have apps on your phone and you're going to need papers to travel, things like that. But, um, still people aren't seeing it. Still, people want to get me to like debate borders with them, you know, the libertarian border debate.   It's, it's hard for me to believe. It's such on two basis. So, um, I think a lot of people aren't familiar with agorism, agorism. Like what is that? Agorism is the agora pops up whenever a government is created, a government's created. And the first thing they do is they seek to impose their power. And a lot of their power comes through regulation. So, you know, I could say one of the first agorist revolutions in this country would have been making tax-free whiskey in Pennsylvania. And what happened? The government, George Washington sent troops in there to stop that, the whiskey rebellion. And so what a government starts saying, no, you can't have this. No, you can't have that. Usually it's things people want. So this market, a free market, a truly free market pops up where entrepreneurs see that there's, see that people want something. It's not available. So they provide it.   But yeah, I mean, that's just a perfect example or your local weed dealer. You know, if I know there's a lot of states where, and I know in Canada now it is legal and the government is running it. The funny thing though, in Canada, it's legal though, but the black market has increased like tenfold. Well, yeah, because the government's running it and the government can't run anything, right? They actually, governments, you get this, the government of Ontario lost $40 million in selling weed. Only the government can lose money selling weed.  But I mean, that's all the Agora is. And then you could take the Agora even further.  And they do it wonderfully. But it doesn't only have to be things that are illegal, it could be gray market, things like you have an acre and you start growing stuff on it. You take it and you go down to the local farmers market and you set up a stand and you sell it only for silver or crypto. And you don't charge taxes or if you do sell it for fiat, you're not charging taxes and you're not reporting taxes. I mean, the whole point of the Agora is to starve the beast. It's to keep as much money out of the government's hands as possible. And that's the only thing we've seen in history, I think, besides bloodshed and bullets that has caused liberty, but that has caused empires to fall. But most of the time, the Agora's don't even know they're doing it.  And just an example from my life is I went to Iceland a couple of years ago and I did Airbnb and these people had a mother-in-law suite behind their house and they found out it was my birthday. So they invited us up to the house and so we're eating with this extended Icelandic family. And we had been to the grocery store in the liquor store and liquor there is like four times as much as it is here. Food there, like a pound of ground chuck was like $14, $15 American. So I'm like, how do these people afford this?  They have all this food. And I'm like, these people do not appear to be wealthy to me. And they said a boat comes in, somebody buys it off the boat and then distributes it to everybody else. It's pure black market. And yeah, that's beautiful to me. It's like when I see that in action, it really is something to celebrate. Let's tie this back into what you were talking about at the beginning with UBI and having more government control because you and I will both agree UBI is probably the least concern going in and much more draconian measures are being implemented within the government right now. But what do you see? And what would you say you see in the medium term happening with the new government policies coming in? Well, immediately, I think the the policy, the economic policies are going to cause a deflation. I think you're going to see prices go down.  And it's like, oh, you know, I got to get rid of one of these. I think you can find a really good deal. One thing I've noticed in my neighborhood. Now, I live I live right outside of Atlanta, and it's a solidly middle class neighborhood. I mean, solidly middle class. I would say in the last month, the for sale signs in front of houses have quadrupled. And I think what they're trying to do is I think they're trying to get out before they know the market's going to fall. So I think in the next six months, you could see, you know, you could pick up some property very inexpensively, some rentals or whatever, you know, if you're looking to move. But I see a radical deflation. I don't see hyperinflation. I think hyperinflation is coming because, I mean, they're talking about $6 trillion is stimulus. I mean, it's just these numbers are and, you know, and think about UBI. You could talk about overnight loans to banks and how that doesn't go into into circulation all you want. But this UBI is going to go into circulation. So I mean, eventually, and it may take a couple of years, but you're going to see prices skyrocket. And that's when like I I'm I'm big on crypto, but I'm I'm still I can't get rid of my precious metals. They're always going to be around. Yeah. Yeah. I love my precious metals. But I actually see precious metals going down in the next couple of years. But when that hyperinflation hits, oh, man, it's going to be it's going to be a party for those of us who for those of us who sock those away. And I think crypto could also suffer in the meantime. I think you could see crypto go down. But when that hyperinflation hits, I think that people are. I think you will see people poor people aren't pouring into crypto right now. Because I don't think they see what's coming. But I think you will see a lot more people pouring into crypto, which is a reason why people need to be more educated about it. And I just I try to send people the simplest videos so that they can understand. You know, and I also think the technology of blockchain. I don't think a lot of people talk about that. I think that a great mind like Patrick Byrne, besides all of his personal foibles, don't even really need to talk about that. We all we all have screwed up stuff in our in our personal life. But I mean, I think he sees the technology of blockchain is more important to him than the actual cryptocurrency. So that's that's one place I think people could investigate. I never I try not to recommend people say, oh, well, what crypto should I buy? I'm out of that. No, I don't want to get those arguments or those are just as bad as borders and intellectual property arguments. But you know, start looking into it because I think there is money to be made in that for the future as well. I don't good. I'm sorry. No, no, no, please finish. I was I was going to say, you know, a lot of people say, I wish I would have got into Bitcoin. I know people who got into Bitcoin when it was $10. And I know people who lost those had wallets with you know, much money. You know, many Bitcoins have lost. Yeah, exactly. And it's like I know people who are like would be retired and you know, jet setting all over the world at this point. But it's not it's still not too late because people are going to if we can do. Well, let me put it this way. Let's say let's let's say Bitcoin becomes what people wanted to become. So there's two things when it comes to any adoption. A lot of the purest technologists would double down on technology. I'm in the camp as narrative has to be more important than technology. If the narrative is zeitgeist, the psychology isn't there of accepting something.  And so Bitcoin Bitcoin has a zeitgeist, at least as of now, with the so-called narrative of store of value. I'm not big on the campus store of value fluctuates a lot, but I'm on the camp of a sovereign value where something that I control, something that's portable, something that's the visible and something that I can send to anybody around the world. That being said, based on where we see North America heading or the world, if we're looking into the counter-markets philosophy, what I predict is eventually we're going to get to a point in North America of a digital dollar, some type of digital dollar. They've already put it out. They've already put it out there in the last month. So it's in the zeitgeist now. So a society that it's a caches society, it is a totalitarian society. It is a draconian society.  Pretty much it's not your money, it's their money. And anytime you step out of line, boom, you get the kibosh. And so we need an alternative. Bitcoin can be this alternative when it comes to that. So there's an interesting psychological theory. The guy's name is Timor. Brett Weinstein had him on the show. He talks about it called preference falsification, where everybody in the public eye behaves a certain way. So for example, he used the example of like, oh my God, I can't believe the Soviet Union collapsed so far. For example, my parents are from former Yugoslavia on the surface. He'd be like, oh, it was so nice. But then overnight, the whole system collapsed. So people behave a certain way in the public eye so that they don't get scrutinized. Right. They want to say certain things so the government doesn't look at them. They want to behave a certain way so that they don't get penalized. But behind closed doors, they're a completely different person. Because they're not getting scrutinized. They're not getting penalized. So at any given moment, they have the opportunity to act the complete opposite way. And so let's say the digital dollar is launched, or when it does launch in North America, people will use it as preference falsification, but they'll use it not to be ostracized. So they'll be used to buy certain things. But on the counter markets, that's when Bitcoin or other types of cryptos can, like if you want to sell me something, I'm not going to use a dollar. I'll use crypto. If you and I want to transact or you and I want to support a certain entity, like for example, I give people this example, WikiLeaks. Visa, MasterCard, actually all the credit card rail, shut them down. And the only way that they could have got donations back in the day was Bitcoin. And so here's a classical example of using a, we'll call it plan B, using a counter market device to supersede what the public markets deemed as, I would say the deemed as mandatory. So I think we're heading into very interesting waters where I, I have a funny prediction.  I believe the people on top like the face, the face. Yeah. Okay, good. Yep. Yep. Great. 100%. I have no, I don't think so. The, and another thing though, people have this like a notion that there's this cabal where there's like a group of like, of like these like elitist people. I don't view human nature. If you look at human nature, human nature is very tribal. So no matter if you look at context, even at the bottom of society, all the way up to society, there's different, the context is different, but no matter what, there's still tribal warfare within the context of the levels that you move up. So even at the levels that you're moving up, let's say the upper echelons of government, whether we're dealing with CIA, FBI, NSA, espionage, the banking systems, there is departments and different tribal entities within these structures that are also fighting for power. So it's not like there's like this one supreme leader, like for example in North Korea that dictates everything, right? There is this power struggle, this vacuum struggle always happening on the top, top echelons, where I really believe right now, there's a lot of people trying to supersede more power within this vacuum, but more or less I don't, I'm not in the camp where there is this nefarious global agenda where there's like one type of entity that's dictating what's going to happen around the world. Right, the great Scott Horton, who is the founder of Libertarian Institute and that I'm the managing editor at, and the premier foreign policy expert I think in the world, he says if you want to find, he admits he used to be in the 90s in New World, he calls himself an old New World Order. Old New World Order. Yeah, so he's like, I was all down with it, NWO. He goes, I used to read The New American by the John Birch Society because he goes, I didn't like the racial stuff, but you know, stuff about the New World Order and the Commies and everything. And Carol Quigley, all that stuff, yeah, he was full bought into it. But he says if you really look at the world, the New World Order is the United States because they are trying to impose their vision upon everyone else. So yeah, I mean, and we know that there are factions in government and people behind the scenes. What was funny, remember back in 2017, in the middle of January of 2017, if you, those of us who used the term deep state, we were tinfoil hatters. Two weeks later, everyone on TV, everyone on the media or the quote unquote mainstream media, probably better termed the corporate media, was saying the deep state. Like, and I'm like, over here, I would say that. How long have I been saying that? Can I get some credit here? But yeah, you have all these people fighting, you know. And then you have to think about the other governments around the world. They have the same thing. And I can't remember who it was who originally said this. I know Ryan McMacon from Mises.org from the Mises Institute said this recently. He said, when you look at the international order, you can use that as an example for how anarchy can work because really there's no these governments do whatever they want and they only submit to another government if it's in their best interest, if they feel like it's in their best interest. But yeah, I mean, but here's what I think about the whole digital dollar thing. Okay. I do not believe that you're going to be able to use that digital dollar for everything. I think you'll only be able to buy food. I mean, you're not going to be an example. I don't think you're going to be allowed to go to a liquor store and use it. And I mean, that's where I spend a great deal of my time. I like Scotch. I like 12-year-old Scotch. That's free. Yeah. Well, and here's the thing is I go to Tower Liquor, which is a chain. Now, there's one much closer to me that is more expensive. It doesn't have as big a selection. But if you get to that digital dollar and you have that small little store and you can't use your digital dollar there walking in there and explaining to them how to set up the any-pays system so that you can use cryptocurrency, at that time, they'll probably be a lot more open to it than right now, where, you know, who's going to be spending cryptocurrency there, me, maybe two other people in the area. So, yeah. I mean, I just, I see us moving into a large black and gray market, an opportunity for everyone to get there, and especially with crypto. And I even really think a lot of people are stark. I'm one of those people when it comes to like silver. I love the 90% U.S. junk silver, like the dimes, the old dimes. And those are like worth a dollar, a dollar and a quarter right now. So, you could transact with those very easily, you know, the quarters are worth a little bit more. And I think we're getting there, man. This is the last month. I have this interesting thought. So, you look at shadow banking, you look at how much money is in offshore bank accounts and tax savings. And, you know, I have some experience in that working with some people. And listen, when you're in the government or when you are with it, not even the government, let's say you're within the financial top and you have a lot of money you're trying to protect, you're going to look at every different aspect of how to protect it without paying taxes legally, obviously. This isn't illegal, this is all legal. I find it funny when people say, oh, he's running, everything they're doing is 100% on board, nothing's illegal. And so, what happens though, when we do get into a digitized dollar where you can't then hide that money? This is where I find there's kind of like some kind of juxtaposition interesting case study where the people on top, what happens to their incentives? Because I got to look at the incentives, right? So, you have trillions of dollars being offshore, not paying taxes, but let's say we do digitize the dollar and you're forced to use a dollar, then how do you protect your money when you are the very person on top who imposes a digital dollar? They're going to adopt crypto. That's what I'm saying, that's what I think is going to happen. They're going to adopt crypto, and then it's going to go through the roof. And then you're going to see a balloon. And, you know, at that point, you're going to come to a point where it's not going to matter what it's worth based off of the U.S. dollar anymore. No. And I think that's what confuses people about crypto, is when you tell them about it and everything, they've heard about these about, oh, people who bought Bitcoin at $10, and now it's all these rich people in their jet setting and set up their little communities around the world. I think those of us who understand that we want to use crypto to not only subvert the system, but to take it down. That, yeah, I mean, it has to get to the point where people are going to want to desire BTC, BCH, Dash, whatever, you know, Ethereum, you know, I'm fine with any of them, but I'm also a Hayekian and that I think that currencies need to, you know, free society currencies need to compete. But yeah, so, yeah, I think it's going to get to the point where it's like people aren't going to be like, oh, so Bitcoin is worth this much in the dollar now. It's like, no, I want this much Bitcoin or I want this much Dash. I think it's going to happen slowly because if you're familiar with like the frog analogy of boiling water. And so people, they slowly concede rights and privacies bit by bit for this perceived notion of security, but it's not security. It's the war. It's the draconian measures. It's, and I think right now what we're going to see is, short term, I think, at least United States, Canada is not going to, Canada is going to have some benefits from the United States, but we're going to have more downside. For the short term, there's a lot of honeymoon effect that's going to happen in the U.S. You have all this capital being pumped in. We have this weird form of a UBI and I don't think so. These stimulus packages will disappear for the regular, I think a lot of politicians will use this as a more voting tool to start voting themselves in. And I think people, once they get accustomed to whether it's $1,000 a month, they don't want that to disappear. And so I think this narrative of what Andrew Yang started with their UBI or Universal Dividend Funny called it, it's here to stay.  That being said, you have the short term stimulus, all this cash being injected, your right is going to be a deflationary period of goods. But long term, you don't have to be a specialist in economics. You don't have to be a statistician. What happens when you have more supply? That's it. When you have more supply of diapers, the price goes down. When you have more supply of dollars, that's a different story. What it's worth goes down, but the price of everything else is going to go up. Well, exactly. And the easiest way to look at that is tuition. College tuition back in the 80s, the school I went to down in Fault Lauderdale, I think for residents, it was $20 a credit. Was it community college? Yeah, it was community college. So it was a two-year college, but it was $20 a credit for residents.  And yeah, well, when you're giving people free money, I mean, who's the last person who got turned down for a student loan? Has there ever been anybody? Well, yeah, of course the price is going to go up. It's the same thing. The housing market in the aught is the same exact thing. They were giving away mortgages to anybody. The whole story, if anybody saw the big short, great entertaining movie, terrible economically, because they didn't blame it on who they needed to blame it on. They blamed it on the people who were playing the game that the system created, and they didn't blame it on the system. But that story of the stripper who had owned like three or four houses, that's like based off of truth. There was a stripper who owned three or four houses, they were just giving away mortgages. I mean, she had she had no proof. She works for cash. She had no proof of income. I think about how crazy that was. But and that's why I remember buying a condo and then like a month and a half later, we had to get rid of it because we had to move really quick. And it had gone up 20 percent in a month.  Yeah, it was I mean, it was nice. It was it was fun. But I look back on that now and I'm like, of course that wasn't sustainable. I knew people I was working with at the time who like bought a house for 265, held it for six months and sold it for 375. It was just it was it was a crazy time. But that's that's an example of if you're just giving away money, you're going to see the prices of things go up until it crashes. And you get a UBI. I mean, you start giving people two grand a month. I mean, someone like me is just going to keep working, going to take that money and invest, you know, half of it in cryptocurrency, half of it in gold and silver and just keep doing that on out until everything crashes. And it will crash. I mean, look at this what happened in New York just recently. This is just like an early telltale sign with unemployment insurance. Well, this one individual combining all the stimulus checks they got was earning roughly 51 K. If they went back to work, they would have only earned 48 K. And the person I don't blame them, they're like, what incentive do I have to go to work? None. I mean, you could actually build you could build a side hustle where you're making money off the books while you're collecting that.  Why not?  And agorists would have no problem with that. We would applaud that because any money you can take away from the state is one less dollar they use to kill brown babies all over the world. You mentioned the medical at the beginning. Where do you think we're heading with that? Oh, I mean, it's going to be single-payer health care. It'll be Medicare for all, something like that. I would hope they would allow people to keep their insurance. And I think a lot of companies that are teetering, and we could talk more about that because I mean, the last month is... I just have so many stories from around here. But I think you're going to see companies that are teetering will just be like, sorry, you guys don't get medical anymore and everything. But a company like mine that's over 100 years old and is actually European, they want us to, in order to keep good employees, they won't do that. They'll allow it as long as the government doesn't outlaw it. You know what I mean? You remember the Democratic debates last year? I think the first two, everybody with the exception of one or two people was saying, yeah, we just can't allow private health care, employer-sponsored health care anymore. We have to have it so that everybody gets government health care. And that's a scary part. That's when you have to think about maybe thinking about the quality of health care you're going to get and how it might be cheaper in another country to pay cash. Well, I'll tell you first, I'm in Canada, and we have something called Health Cations, where we leave Canada with a vacation to go somewhere. I'll give you a real example. Dent, which one is it? Oh, no, yes, for the United States. So getting an MRI is, you can get an MRI in Canada. It's just going to take you forever to get one. I mean, forever. And you got to convince your doctor, well, I just want to get an MRI because I'm proactive in my health. I don't have medical issues.  No, no, no, it's not medical emergency. Therefore, you might have to wait up to a year to get an fMRI. Or I can drive to Buffalo, which is an hour and a half away from Toronto, and pay cash and get my results in an hour right there at the clinic. And so if we have a socialist health care system, only socialist health care system, we don't have full blown private health care system. So there's many, and like my wife's a doctor, and you're limited, very limited of what you are allowed to do in a so-called private health care system. Like, and this is ridiculous limits.  It's insane. And so if you look at our quality of health care, we're ranked very low in Canada, extremely low. I'll give credit to our health care system when it comes to emergency.  Sure, we can help you go to ER. Wait times long, but the ER is there. Every other form of health care, cancer, diabetes, obesity, all preventative, let's go prevent it. We have the worst.  Like it's garbage. And so I hate when Americans use as a Canadian model. Like guys, I personally leave Canada to get better health care. Yeah, I mean, I know of people who go to Germany and go to a private clinic and pay, go to Mexico, private clinic. I know people who have gone to Mexico to get their insulin, because it's a lot cheaper down there. I went, a couple of years ago, the doctor said my cholesterol was high. God, what an inaccurate science. So he recommended I go get this cardiac scoring test where they basically do an MRI of your heart, of your valve, if you have any plaque and everything. And he told me, he said, if you pay cash, if you pay out of pocket, it'll be $95. If you do it through your insurance, it's going to be about $800. And then what's your deductible, he asked me. And I'm like, yeah, I'll pay the $95.  People are like, yeah, it's a free market health care system. That's why the Commies are like, if the health care system here wasn't a free market, I'm like, what are you talking about? Obamacare was literally fascism, where he just basically reduced the medical system into the hands of like five different companies. And you couldn't use any other company. It was like, that's a free market? No, that's literal fascism. So, yeah. What's your advice then for regular people right now in this chaotic times? I really think you got to build a side hustle. I think if you got a regular job, yeah, keep it. Don't get rid of it now. I don't care what you're doing. Not a good time at all to do it. But you got to build something on the side.   If you want to get into the black markets, then you do that of your own accord. I've operated in the black markets before, but you are taking a risk.  I mean, that's going into the future. That's going to be needed. Learn how to work on the blockchain. If you are, if you do know how to code and you're in that, I mean, the blockchain is going to be huge. I mean, you talk about Patrick Burns talking about how you'll have trillions of dollars of contracts on the blockchain within the next five years, something like that. So, yeah, I mean, just you're looking to supplement your income. So, in case, and here's what I want to talk about, because around here, the city I work in, it was actually built and designed in the 70s to be a Silicon Valley around Atlanta. And it's got this long street called Technology Parkway and like all the computer companies, software, everything is on there. Well, that's been empty for a month and a half. Businesses shut the, stopped going to work using that brick-and-mortar locations a month and a half ago. Well, I think that if people, if those people have been working remotely and those businesses are still making a profit and they're still up and running, I think a lot of them are going to go, why do we need these six floors of building? Maybe we only need one or two. So, think about what that's going to do to the economy of the town I work in, because now those people aren't going to work. They're not going to be going out to lunch. They're not going to be getting their gas in the neighborhood. They're not going to be doing whatever. Think about what that's going to do to commercial real estate. I think one of the biggest, because I have an uncle who was huge, made a fortune in commercial real estate in New York State. And so, my family's always been aware of it. But I think commercial real estate's going to take a real hit. I mean, it may take a worse hit after this than residential real estate, because I think a lot of people are looking at their books. Georgia allegedly reopened yesterday. So, people are going back to work. I noticed there was a lot more traffic on the road. And a lot of the businesses around there were being frequented just a little more, not a lot more, but a little more. So, it's going to start coming back a little bit, but it's not going to come back 100%. I mean, think about it. I think brick and mortar after labor might be a lot of people's second largest expense. If you can reduce that, because you've just proved to yourself in a month and a half that you can allow people to work remotely, now they have these cameras that take a picture of you every 30 seconds to make sure you're not walking away. People really need to start thinking about their hustle and what hustle they can get to, because things have fundamentally changed. I mean, people don't want to accept it, but things have fundamentally changed. We're not going back to the way it was a month and a half, two months ago. I always tell people we have been domesticated. This whole idea of job security is not a natural state of human beings. There's no such thing as security.  We're nomadic creatures.  Like, we would go a week without cash. Like, people think hunting's easy. One of the most difficult things possible. Like, ridiculously difficult. Even with modern day crossbow hunting and rifle hunting. And thinking about back in the day, I always tell people how we hunted, we were endurance animals. So it wasn't like, oh, first shot kill, we're good. It's like, no, we wounded the animal and we just kept on stalking it until the animal gave up and we caught it. And then we've been conditioned since after World War II for these blue collar jobs, guaranteed security. Here's your pension plan. You're going to work at the same company for 40 years. You're going to make your 50K a year.  And people have been conditioned and the whole system's been conditioned around that.  That's not the natural state of human beings. You need to be agile. You need to be versatile. You need to ask yourself, how can I do multiple things at a multiple time? And as you said, how can I create multiple streams of different income, side hustles? And I'm not telling people it's not like you have to create a whole different income of 40K, but hey, if you can make an extra 500 bucks a month there and maybe 200 bucks here, a lot of some money adds up, man. That really starting the podcast and being able to generate income off the podcast has changed a lot of what I've been able to do. It's been able, I've been able to reduce my hours at work so that I can concentrate more on undoing content. And as much as I love the company I work for, if I can replace that income and then some, I don't know what, it'd be hard for me to leave, but I like doing this a lot more. And it's what I've always wanted to do to be able to work for myself to give my opinion. And that's pretty much what I do and facilitate other people's opinions by having them talk, do that on my podcast. I rarely ever do a podcast by myself anymore. I always want to talk to somebody else because that's two different sets of ideas going instead of one. And just listening to me talk all day for an hour would be boring as hell. But yeah, I mean, just build up, yeah. But the problem with a lot of people is that they don't have the discipline to look at that extra $500 and not want to raise their standard of living to meet it. So that if that $500 disappears, now they're underwater. So saving, I wrote an article when this all first started, when I first started seeing what was happening and I knew that there was gonna be some devastating financial problems.   You know all these things. You know that most of the country is living paycheck to paycheck. You know that that's all these things. You should know better. You have to get conservative about what you're doing now. I hate to use the term conservative because God, it's just an awful term that just, ugh, but yeah.  I forget who I was talking to the other day, but my last episode that I released, I said how many libertarians do you think right now, because they couldn't go to work or living off their credit cards? And it hurts me and pains me, because if I'm a quote unquote essential worker, so I never stopped working, but if I had to, I had money set aside for emergencies like this. I wouldn't be in the hole. I wouldn't be, I wouldn't be suffering. And I wouldn't even have to apply for anything. I'll tell you the issue with not just libertarianism, any isms or anybody who is, let me put it as a protester, advocate or of a certain narrative. If you look at nature, like the biological nature, how does the ecosystem change? A superior technology emerges within that ecosystem. Virus, bacteria, the environment changes, maybe gets hotter, apex predator, gets hotter, colder, but the bottom line, a new technology appears. The supersedes, the old technology and changes the ecosystem. And so you look at what libertarianism is trying to do or a narco-capitalist are trying to do, or anybody, even leftist, for example, whoever it doesn't matter, it's all the same to me. It's people speaking what they believe their philosophy to be true. You're still playing within the same environment, the same context. You're still using the same old technologies. The only way you can change something is you create a new technology, in case, for example, Bitcoin.  No, we created a superior technology that superseded the old technology. And so I always tell people, if you wanna change something less talking, in fact, be invisible as much as you can and actually create a superior technology that the old environment has no, they have no choice but to adapt to accept a new technology. What happens if that technology can be used against you by the powers that be? It's always gonna be. I think you have to bake that in that that everything has a double-edged sword. Yeah, like this smartphone right here, the newest Samsung. Yes. The, this is used to track, can be used to track me anywhere I go. If you choose to. So, yeah, if you choose to. I mean, still, I mean, you could turn off everything you want in this thing and I'm still sure they've baked into it that there are ways that they can track you with it or say they get to that part where it's like, okay, if you wanna travel or what they're doing in China right now, I believe there's an app that tracks you where you go. And if you come within six feet of anybody who's tested for COVID, then you have to automatically go into quarantine for two weeks, something like that. So then maybe people will start going back to flip phones and track phones. Or it's not the phone itself that the issue, the issue is the identity that's attached to the phone. Yeah. And so if you can be anonymous or private and still have the phone, you can track me all you want. You don't know who I am. Sure. Yeah. And that's there too. You know, unfortunately, normies aren't going to be able, they're not going to go, they're just not going to care. That's the thing about it is that's why this stuff will be so easily implemented is because the majority of people are going to be like, Oh, for if it's for my own safety, that's great. But no, you are right. I mean, technology is what's going to get us out of this. And there is no better example than the blockchain. Well, look at this. Cryptography was illegal in the 70s in the States and cryptographers were exporting code on t-shirts by leaving them. Think about that. Cryptography was considered state defense, like proprietary state application technology that only the state can be allowed to use for military applications. And here we are, that's anybody that has access to the internet can log in and have access to all these different types of crypto. Yeah, you have to find something that you, you have to find a way to get around it. I mean, I've told the story about how at one time I was, I did bootleg DVDs at the trunk of my car. And why was I able to do it in one of the most affluent neighborhoods where I where I lived at the time because the cops were some of my biggest customers. Of course. So I mean, you have to be able to, that's a way of adapting is making alliances. And you know, it doesn't always, you're not always going to be able to make alliances with the authorities, especially if their paycheck is relying upon it. But I think another thing that's important now is to find like-minded individuals in your area and start what can only be termed as like freedom cells where you protect each other. And you know, Konkin famously said that we'll know that the states has no power anymore when private defense agencies rise up to protect the agorists from the state. We're a little ways on that. Detroit threat management, Dale Brown and his crew, they work with the state. But you know, I'm sure I've talked to Dale and he'd rather just be able to do it as a free market. But you know, right now people need protection. People need protection and really numbers helps a lot and just really being smart if you're going to do something that's outside the system. But you know, I put out a tweet this morning and I said, look, the only thing that's going to solve the market problem that we have right now is to free the market. But that's never going to happen. But we already have a free market. It's called the Agora and it's working every day. It's been working throughout this whole pandemic, scandemic, whatever you want to call it. It's been working. People are still getting their weed. People are still getting their MDMA. People are selling masks, making masks at home and selling them on Etsy. I mean, all of these things are the Agora and people, you know, they need to embrace it and know that it'll always be there. And that's the one. Once I really said I love anarcho-capitalism, but I don't see the only the logical conclusion to make anarcho-capitalism work is agorism. Once I accepted that, I became more hopeful. I became more hopeful for the future. A few months ago, if you would have asked me, you would have told me, June, July, we might see UBI and universal health care, I'd be worried. I mean, I would have been really worried. But as soon as I really started embracing my inner agorism as really the only way out of this, I'm much more at peace now. Because I know that as long as we build that gray and black market to compete against the white market, we'll be all right. All those things that we need. Hey, who's going to be the one to falsify the papers if you want to travel and they want to see your vaccines? See what vaccines you've had and you don't want to do that. I mean, really, it's funny.  And he's actually a medical professional. And we were talking about that.  There's people in their own field know that this is ridiculous. I mean, the coronavirus is a worse version of the flu, but it is still a version of the flu. People get flu shots every year and still get the flu. Why do we think that these vaccines are going to do anything?  Yeah, I mean, I'd rather, hey, if I have to travel, if they're going to say, oh, you can't fly, I guess I'm driving then. Or I know a really good network of people who can probably falsify that stuff and make it look pretty real. Well, Pete, I just want to thank you so much for coming on and sharing your thoughts. If people want to get ahold of you, get to know what you're doing. What's the best resource? Well, you can Free Man Beyond the Wall at protonmail.com. You can drop me an email there. I'm over at the libertarianinstitute.org. Free Man Beyond the Wall podcast. I think I just released my 409th episode yesterday. And I started that in July of 2017.  Yeah, so I tend to put out a lot of interviews. I get good people to talk to. It was funny. Somebody's like, I've never heard of your podcast before. And on three consecutive episodes, you had James Corbett, Ron Paul, and Dave Smith. How the hell does that happen on a podcast I've never heard of before? And I'm like, well, I've been around a while. And then I'm always on Twitter at my name, Peter at Peter R. Kenyonas. So I really appreciate it, Amir. This was a great talk. Thank you.


My name is Duration and this is Tengtai Kauai, Finding our Future and so I come on here every two weeks, Wednesday at one o'clock and just talk about something that I'm interested in with somebody in the community that I like. So, Justine Espiritu is here and you interviewed me a few years ago, I think, so it just comes around and I out the door flipped, like we're literally wearing the same colors that flipped. It's so funny. But yeah, so if you could just introduce yourself to whoever's watching and we can go from there. Yeah, again, I'm Justine Espiritu. I recently was with Bike Share Hawaii who launched the Bike Share system, Beaky for a couple years. I've also dabbled in some local food and farm stuff. I was with Oahu Fresh and the heart of my work is my book club. I co-founded the greener reader with Margaret Hardin through the RISE internship I had through Coupu a couple years ago. And so today I feel like everything kind of comes full circle and it's kind of interconnected and so we were going to talk about, you know, taking initiative in your career and job opportunities as well as how you choose to engage in the community, being creative and trying to build connections and trying to kind of forge your own future and those ideas of opportunity and pathways and stuff. Totally. So I think framing it as like problem solutions. So the problem, I think we could identify as people, most people hate their jobs. First of all, or they do it like just for money. Yeah, and then particularly in Hawaii with a high cost of living. People feel like they need that sense of security is sometimes first priority for sure. And then in kind of the world we're living in, you know, some people want to find meaningful work that contributes to solving like the larger problems that we're facing in society, the world in general. So trying to find that balance and be frustrating. And then you're like, point of anything, making money, but I hate my job, cost so much to live here. How do you balance priorities? Yeah. And be happy and like be happy in the work that you do and like feel like you're a positive part of society. And I think I'm glad you asked us to talk about that because I think we both have some kind of experience in forging that path. And I think everyone young has been on both sides, probably all work jobs that weren't fulfilling restaurant jobs, whatever kind of like first entering the workforce. But then, you know, there's a way that you can like find that. So what was an example of that for you, where you were able to find a job that or create a job that you loved? So yeah, part of my biggest example was working with Bike Share Hawaii and the BIKI system because that was really a startup. You know, I was part of the community that kind of brainstormed this idea as a solution to clean transportation and our energy issues. And so it was part of, there was a really small team to start. It was Ben and Lori and the board. And as they were kind of doing the planning, doing the kind of the community outreach, I was able to finagle my way in there as a grant writer, which was cool, able to kind of get some of their initial, some small grants to help with outreach, to help with some equipment purchasing. And what I found, and again, that was an opportunity I got through the Rise Internship Program, some of the clean energy and clean transportation projects I had kind of put me in that network, for sure, but it was what I've kind of realized looking back at, it really took some initiative to not only just accept what they had kind of hard to do, like just simple grant writing, but then I took a lot of initiative and through what I see as like mentorship under the leadership to kind of take on more roles and really do what else I was interested within the organization and within the work and through that kind of creativity and proving myself when they had the funding, they were able to create a position for me to come on full-time and over time, I was able to establish that into ultimately the an associate director of programs and community partnerships, which again is what I found was really important and really meaningful stuff and getting to work not only in the transportation or the bike community, but crossing those other boundaries into public health, into housing issues, into et cetera, cost of living and I'm just really excited that I had the naive confidence that I could do that and I think what I've kind of learned is part of what gets people that are able to achieve that is definitely mentorship and then a support system and the network that helps people gain that confidence, which has, so I've kind of recognized, I think there's mentorship in a ton of different forms in Hawaii in particular, which is interesting to kind of break down and see and recognize and so I've been really excited about that and then it's interesting to see that in other forms. Yeah, I think yeah one of the keys is like fearlessness and like offering yourself up like hey I want to help and like I just you know like let me help you and then they'll be like okay sure and then once you start like really inserting yourself somewhere like you choose an organization or company that you really want to be with and you offer yourself even if it's for a smaller role or smaller pay or no pay and then yeah through them investing in you and you investing in them and like proving yourself and they'll want you on their team. I think that's like an easy way to hack the system like I did that at a preschool I was like I really want to work at this preschool and I don't want to like be a teacher I just like really want to work here I really like it and they were like we have a role you can't work at the preschool unless you're in education like you have an education major and I was like I just want to work here I'll like volunteer if I have to I went like three or four times to the office and like bother them over email and finally persistence the last time for sure she was like it's because of your persistence like slightly annoyed but mostly impressed she's like you can work for us and we'll give you an exception and it was like you know I got paid ten bucks an hour was like nothing but I loved it I just like knew I would love working with kids and it was right across the street from when I was a student so I think persistence is part of it because that was when I didn't have a community but I chose the place that I wanted to be and I like you know kind of forced them to like work with me and like showed that I was like really committed to being there even if they kind of said no at first yeah yeah that's always excited you kind of think back like how did I get that persistence or like what gave me that confidence to just kind of insert myself into yeah something which is always that is yeah so I wonder what do you think that was for you or like where do you think you got that because it's kind of like a personality or yeah I think that's where the the mentorship piece and your network kind of come in I think it took someone telling me that like asking me the questions of what do you want to be doing like what do you find joy in where do you think you're you're not even necessarily the like what do you think your skills are but help asking me the questions to help me articulate what I wanted to do and then when I was confident in that then I could I think that idea of like selling yourself to an organization to have that that confidence and I think sometimes it does take an outer figure sometimes yeah like it's nice to know I I've gained a lot more confidence in myself when I knew other people had confidence yeah that's I feel like for myself yeah so confidence is key come back to that and I think probably like the way you're raised through I'm guessing what's a part of it like would you say that was yeah I would say I mean thinking back of my greatest resource of course I like my parents had the financial means to help me go through college but they also were a little bit it was a little bit of a dictatorship of like I didn't have a choice to go to college so I mean them having that experience of where college gets somewhere like home ownership gets somewhere specifically college was you're going to college you can go wherever you want but you're going to college you're signing this loan I sometimes I was like when I was in undergrad and thinking about my loans I'm like they didn't really ask me if I wanted to have this debt but they knew like education was the the pathway to jobs and resources and again the specific internship that I did have through the CUPU program which was the RISE a little bit different than their conservation internship programs but the RISE program was specific to college students or people recently out of college so recognizing that privilege to that pathway I think is important yeah totally I had the same experience in college going through the RISE program and I would say like college is like the best opportunity for you to like launch into something because there's so many experts and professionals and academics in every field and so that's your opportunity to like find your mentors like I you don't even need to go to class use your status as a college student to like me derade did not as she says go to class anyway like you should go to class but but like a lot of my energy in college was spent like as a volunteer like running the student club and like meeting with my professor again well that's where I I think meeting with your professors recognizing what resources exist in university because I think that's one thing to get into college and then again to be in college and recognize and take advantage of your resources and again for me what helped me take advantage of my resources was a professor seeing these opportunities and telling people hey do you guys want to travel you want to go to Geneva you want to go to this UN conference apply you can get funding from shamanod and then you can get paid for what so again it was that someone that's you know more knowledgeable more experience yeah making sure younger generation knows what their resources are yeah totally like they're like the bridge from expertise money like access to all of these other pathways and then they'll give that to you if you become like the point of contact again it's like if you take the initiative I think to seek those people out or to take advantage of those opportunities when they get presented you know some people I think in college they're like I don't want to go to my professor's office hours you know I don't want to have a relationship with my professor and those are people that then miss out on those yeah yeah because you can graduate college and be like have all this experience under your belt in your resume already even if you want to pay for any of them and you'll get that job because most college students graduate and they weren't involved they didn't get any experience so you graduate at the same level as like 90 of other college students and then you're like it's a loss yeah so again that it's it's that mix it's not just um your upbringing and the resources but again having that initiative and having that drive to you know contribute or right be a part of your yeah exactly and I think just like showing up to things that you're interested in yeah showing up asking questions and just like offering yourself like if you offer your time people will respect you they'll be like wow she's so generous like she wants to help and then when when funding becomes available they're like we have a job for you and you're like yeah exactly like yeah you don't even expect it so again I think that's another thing that you tapped on to is that that commitment and consistency yeah I think is really important too when you're showing up when you are putting your own resources and time yeah totally and then you kind of can build that community which is how the little segue into the book club and what I'm also interested too of you with your the good food movement you know I think people are drawn to you and that organization because they know this is something you're doing out of passion I don't think maybe you're getting paid for now no you're like being sponsored we're not losing money anymore but I mean just that time commitment you know I think people really respect that yeah yeah I'm like good for movement for me was it was like I'm doing all these things I love like I work for environmental organizations and it's amazing and we get to like impact positively impact our society and our local community but I knew like I wanted to work in food you know and I love connecting people to food and like you know information and inspiration around how food choice can like save the planet and like right that's what's cool too when you're super committed into your cause of volunteering for all these um environmental organizations yeah and then you you find what your kind of niche is in that you know I know yeah food choice and diet is a huge factor in our environmental issue and so it's awesome then when you find that thing and then you can focus your energy on that and then again having the confidence to and the initiative to create your own opportunity at that which you which you did with the good food movement yeah and it's cool because like now we're at like 1100 followers on Instagram which is like in some ways it's like to us it's like wow it's a lot because we you know we do things only when we really have time um and we always like have this running joke because it's me and my three best friends we're like you know people who are like it's working we just made stuff up and it's working yeah I mean you're always you're always surprised at what you what you do yeah you think you and I think sometimes when you reflect back on you're like how did I have the nerve to do that you know it's like and then you never you never really set out to do what ends up happy like you know the having however many followers and having these many people pay attention that like probably wasn't necessarily on your mind when you started it was just like me and my best friends we care about this we're interested in getting together talking about it doing it you know exactly and then what's cool was when that resonates with other people in your community yeah and that's what's cool too when you realize you have such a bigger community than you imagine and and so many more uh such a wider network than you thought or people that you align with yeah exactly so this can you share we're going to go to brickson but can you share a greener reader like yeah overview first yeah yeah so it all it all comes full circle again um my start of the book club with margaret harden who is the director of my rise internship program and they had an original vision for it of the interns kind of going out that didn't happen now i like took it over so i just i just read it our our thing so let me let me read it to you so oh god go back so greening our mo sorry i did change it gathering edit it gathering our minds one book at a time gomo bat is our motto so the greener reader is a conscious raising book club focused on reading and discussing texts and sometimes films that intersect with the topics of sustainability place clarify and other potential futures democracy and civil engagement environmental ethic history from the perspective of food and other underrepresented perspectives and tested narratives and the unspoken complexities of the human heart we meet almost always on the last tuesday of every month to read together in silent solidarity share what we're reading and discuss the book of the month one to three times a month we gather in public green spaces to read as well so it's still greener reader there's that relevancy there it started out as specifically sustainability focused right kind of like you sit on grass yeah yeah yeah keep in the green keep in the green but that's my new my new little blurb for it i like that what is a clarify climate fiction that's what i kind of so it's like sci-fi with the climate crisis lens what's an example of a hi-fi book um what in me uh but of orcs orcs and craig a margaret atwood kind of has that theme through through that um we read lagoon which again is kind of like the climate crisis and impact in nigeria and how the town is kind of um responding to that and uh there's like a million others oh wow that's good to know okay cool we're gonna go to break and then we'll just talk about tons of other stuff thanks to our think tech underwriters and grand tours the atherton family foundation carol monlie and the friends of think tech the center for microbial oceanography research and education collateral analytics the cook foundation dwayne koresu the hawaii community foundation the hawaii council of associations of apartment owners hawaii energy the hawaii energy policy forum hawaii an electric company integrated security technologies gaelan ho a b a e systems kameha meha schools mw group the schilder family foundation the sydney stern memorial trust volo foundation yuriko j suki mura thanks so much to you all hi so you're watching think tech hawaii and the show is finding our future so i'm here with justine spirit two and we are talking about her book club consciousness raising book club and how to create your own job and kind of be like an empowered citizen and not so much like passive trying to make money and make a paycheck but more like they're like we're gonna make money we're gonna make money but try and the best we can to do it in a way that keeps us happy and using our creative muscles to do that exactly so where are you at in your career so i'm at a better description of cli-fi so also sci-fi which i which is i'm happy that my book club opened my heart to you because i was always a little bit overwhelmed with the idea of sci-fi but what i think is cool about uh sci-fi and fiction in general specifically sci-fi genres for us you know when we talk about solutions to climate issue and and environmental issues in general we're very much i think confined by what we imagine is possible and so kind of like the cli-fi realm is a way for us to step out of the present constructs and kind of think creatively and when they're these books are like climate focus and it helps us kind of open our minds to other ideas and and then just how we might like react and if we don't want to react this way then it's like let's think about the structures that we have in place but a good one that i really liked was the the water knife that was one of wen's picks a couple years ago and so talking about imagining a world when water is such a finite resource and people start getting nasty start killing each other and like the kind of gangs and stuff that form around that yeah like climate dystopian yes exactly yeah interesting yeah so that's a that's a that's a category yeah that's cool so how many people are involved right now in the book club i mean every month we have anywhere between like five and fifteen people show up i have about like 220 on my monthly newsletter not all of them live in hawaii they're just interested in my newsletter but um it's cool i tried to kind of like crowdsource the the ideas we get together every december to make the list for the year and what i've and how it's kind of evolved to is you know trying to be democratic about the book selection and so i have i have friends that have different particular interests but then kind of fall into those 525 categories i listed that we read so you know i have my friends that are really interested in hawaiian history and hawaiian culture i have um my friends that are really interested in like indigenous perspectives um other friends that are interested in um other things lots of things you guys do look a lot of cool but yeah i'm always like that sounds like a really good book so another way of that what i've been trying to do because i also what i kind of noticed though it's like a lot of the most committed people are my close group of friends yeah which has been fun in the sense of getting to know them on another level of how what they like to read about and what and then people say they like coming to book club because it's conversations that aren't just about relationships or complain about your job you know it's this like centered topic and so it's been really cool to hear that people say they can come to this and have a more lively yeah so but one so that idea though of like reading just with your close network of friends of like how is that like expanding our minds at all yeah so my new kind of vision i've been enacting is trying to hook up with other kind of themed book clubs yeah and basically going to their book club me so planning to have to attend one of their book club meetings so it's like jumping into another club and another network and other people that i don't necessarily know so it's cool we did that this year with the slow food oahu book club so they like yeah they had a partnership with the shop yeah so they picked four different books for 2019 and that's how we ended up we read hippie food last last month yeah so we kind of crashed their book club and got to just meet new people have these maybe even some similar conversations that we've had amongst each other but it was a cool way to meet new people this for 2020 i'm gonna do that with the civil beat book club oh so that's a lot of cool book clubs exactly that was the thing there's like these book clubs join forces yes i really i and i did um have a book club coalition that is what i was doing it was like i think in mar no maybe it was last november we did like a book club social at the shop so emily helped me coordinate this where we invited different books yeah super bunch of cool nerds cool nerds but that was cool you know so we were only able to connect with slow food that one then i just heard through the grapevine civil beat was doing theirs i emailed uh the woman that has the book i'm gonna do she hasn't emailed me back yet no big deal i'm just gonna show up with my book persist yeah that persists again if i want this partnership to happen uh and it's cool if you build a partnership in a way where they don't necessarily have to consent like i'm just gonna show up let's open the public yeah anyways but yeah so that's exciting to then it's been my little passion project of like how i can try to keep learning and keep kind of meeting new people and meeting new perspectives i've always also on the hawaii angle i've been able to connect with namae a couple of times through different projects on like parking day they've come and brought books and i've had a vision of kind of them you know at least just picking a book yeah again to have that someone that has that kind of tied to hawaii and culture and hawaii history and having them kind of not necessarily i don't want to put that on to facilitate it but to have a book selected by them yeah totally so just trying to mix it up yeah and one of the things that we want to talk about well two things were like mentorship we kind of covered in community like the social capital that's required to be like successful and like well connected which in some ways is like you know that's the best pathway to any form of wealth is through people and those connections and i feel like we're both kind of the types that are like we can go to an event and we know like lots of different people out there and like we have that kind of like network in our local community i'm wondering what you would recommend to somebody who's like looking for that network or trying to expand in terms of like outside their friend group just be like more connected yeah i mean i think it's what you said earlier i think showing up and like taking the time to go to an event that you're interested whether or not your friends are willing to go with you whether or not you know you if you're going to know anyone there or not just kind of looking at what you're interested in and having that courage to just show up even by yourself yes is i think uh fun it's almost like maybe it's even better to show up by yourself because then you don't rely on just hanging out with your friends you're forced to like kind of go and talk to others and there's so many cool things you know i'm always like drawn to the book thing so looking at the events at the shop and um parking day and whatnot but volunteering doing the beach cleanup routes that you know with surf riders sustainable coastlines but again and then it's like if if what you're interested doesn't exist create it yourself yeah that's what i was saying i don't really like facilitating a book club but i was like there was no book club so i had to do it you just have to that's how it is yeah that's how it was a good movement i was like we went to all these vegetarian society events and they just weren't like i wasn't like feeling super excited after like they're cool events great speakers um so we were like let's create like a you know it's almost the same thing but like it'll be like targeted to like a millennial audience and we're gonna make it like really inspiring and fun and like have really great food and so we like filled this niche that we felt like was needed and was exciting for us yeah people can find like that alignment that's key yeah and so i think those two ends of the spectrum of one being willing to totally jump into you just like finding something that already exists and jump into it yeah and i think on the other end of what we were just talking about is is just doing what you want and then letting that network come to you and i think what's key to that what i know the difference for me of having the confidence to do something is if i have like one partner that is like okay yeah let's do this together partner in crime and i'm like a hundred percent committed and it's always like even if it's just two of us in book club let's do the book club you have to because if it's just you it's like doing yoga by yourself like if i do i'm like okay that was 10 minutes but if i go to a class like i'll always stay for the hour hour and a half so it's like really you need that accountability yeah yeah and then and then being and being okay with that too because i feel like so many people want to start things but they're so afraid of what if no one comes what if no one cares and it's like well if you have one person that's committed to caring with you then and then being like two people every time yeah that's what i that's what i tell myself you just gotta have like one partner and yeah that's true like finding a friend or somebody you know you can work with that you know like we'll keep hyping you up and least of fun stuff yeah which again kind of goes back to that mentorship link or just the the support network of yeah someone helping build your confidence and that you're willing to have like you know you'll have a good time so we have shows up we have one minute so can you share a mentor example that you have that you've been really thankful for yeah i mean i think again i always fall back on Ben Trevino uh he was the the first president of like share hawaii and i feel like really took me under his wing and really like asked me questions to think about what i i wanted to do and as all and has continued to be a support system long after we don't work together anymore and i just as a person i know i can share ideas with and that he'll always be there to support it feels good inside oh yeah it's like friends i'm like this is my friend friend who's my mentor i have like 10 or 15 mentors yeah yeah you don't even don't have to be limited to one older and more experience i mean now i have people that i mentor like high school students that are activists and um just keeping that cycle going is so important and making sure you're like passing it on and like always open open that you know recognizing who what what resources you had and then doing what you can to share those with others yeah awesome well that was our show it was super fun and i always love talking to you so thank you for coming on and maybe we can do it again sometime yeah let's do it every year okay what's a year thanks everyone so every other wednesday thank tecua ii finding our future talking about lots of solutions to our community and global problems so it's a lot of fun thank you