Hi, I'm Keith Ghostland. I'm Linda Quinlan. I'm Ann Charles. It's Tuesday, June 14th We're Here welcome to all things LGBTQ. We're recording from Montpelier, Vermont, which we recognize is unceded indigenous land All right, Keith now we're off. That's right and more ways than one so Oh June is a Bunch of balloons month accordion awareness month Adopt a cat month Yes, it's a Sparky will approve. Mm-hmm. It's also LGBTQ plus month and I think all things LGBTQ now holds the distinction of being the longest running Vermont LGBTQ plus theme show So congratulations however There have been other LGBTQ plus theme shows one most notably in the late 1990s that was live With music interviews and they had people calling in Do you remember what it was? I? Have the answer. Yes so looking at events The first thing I want to acknowledge is that June 12th was the sixth anniversary of the pulse massacre and I think even more so now Those of us within the LGBTQ plus community Need to be acutely aware of how we have been and continue to be targeted with gun-related violence so Also coming up on Sunday June 19th is June 10th Yep, which is now a federal holiday. Uh-huh and Burlington has made it a Municipal holiday and they will be doing events on Monday the 20th. Nice. So be looking for those Okay, looking at other events coming up on Tuesday June 21st at the Savoy here in Montpelier They are showing Jonathan Agassi save my life This is a documentary that was filmed between Berlin in Israel over a six-year period Jonathan Agassi is probably one of the most successful gay male porno stars And this documentary as they said in their review pulls back the curtain and What is this industry really like?  Oh, we'd win hands down Okay Then on Friday June each 24th Although in Bethel is their pride and bloom prom starting at six o'clock at the town hall So if you never got to go to your prom, here's your chance Friday June 24th through 26 and this was an event that I had sort of missed before Rainbow Fest and this is a weekend-long Event that is happening at the Milldale farm for wellness and Fairleigh And they're doing camping yoga workshops hiking paddleboards on a music dancing bonfires Community HIV testing they are promoting it is Vermont's alternative pride event But it's going to cost you a hundred to two hundred and fifty dollars to come spend the weekend with them So forget that but there but there's an opportunity On Saturday the 25th at the sangha studio in Burlington, which is on Pride Street Pine Street It is their second annual community pride block party What would read this is pine tree? It's an artist collective. Oh, and they've been sponsoring events over the years poetry readings Exhibitions whatever so this is there come in spend some time with us. Let's have a good time Also on the 25th in Burlington is the people's pride and this is no corporation no cops you know one o'clock Maine and Church Street, and then they will march through town on Sunday the 26th at 2 p.m. In City Hall Park in Burlington is the dedication of the plaque commemorating the first pride day in 1983 on the 26th which is the Sunday is Bennington's pride festival parade block and I'm not done Because we still have Tuesday June 28th here in Montpelier at three penny tap room is pride eats The benefit 5% of all their sales between 11 in the morning and 8 o'clock at night Go to the pride center to support programs and outreach and the pride center was doing the you know Everyone eats program to ensure that lgbtq food and secure Actually had what they need and they want to do that in Montpelier, too Yes, and this is happening at at the tap room. Yeah so and the and my last is Out in the open They have a job opening They're looking for a community organizer And as the community organizer you would often be the people's first go-to when interacting without in the open You you will have the space to create new projects deep in relationships with long-time community members and collaborators and Bring your own brilliance and I deal to the role too bad. I'm retired When there's on a roll today, we're just having a good time and they're hoping to close the application process by June 30th And you can apply on the website sounds good. It sounds like a good opportunity for some I there you go well, we have some Depressing stories a couple of uplifting stories, but not many For everybody who's been watching the hearings this week Very interesting and illuminating. Yes. I was gonna say it's and that has been promoting yourself as being the optimistic one in our That's right. And now the truth is being revealed But will anything happen? We will see. Okay. Well, we're gonna start off with white supremacists and Their founder is among the 31 arrested for conspiracy to riot at an Iowa pride event Idaho, Idaho I don't heard. Oh, we ain't court. Yeah. Yeah Okay, so thank you Ian 31 of them 31. So we'll have more about that Drake Queen story hours disrupted by men shouting slurs in Alamon, El Amina Elamenda County, California Authority said the men wore clothing consistent with the proud voice Richmond, Virginia Representative Glenn Yonkin was running to be Virginia governor But and he was the person who defended the suspended teacher over the objection To using the students preferred pronouns Given this bipartisan surprise when he hosted a reception Celebrating Pride Month at the Virginia Capitol Well, he is the governor already he won. Yeah, Yonkin So he is yeah, but when he ran He defend when he was running he defended the teacher Okay, but now everybody was really surprised Because he was he held hosted a reception celebrating Pride Month I see. Okay Boise police are searching for whoever stole 35 rainbow flags during Pride Month Mega Congressional candidate promises to start executing people who support LGBTQ gay youth Republican pastor Mark Burns is running for Congress in North South Carolina He also wants to as execute Mitch McConnell and Lizzie Graham Along with the parents and teachers who support LGBTQ youth He has compared LGBTQ support of adults as Nazis So there's another good person running in South Carolina Pennsylvania House votes to remove homosexuality from the state crime code eliminating the archaic language That will promote a culture of acceptance say some we'll see in the city of Ara Illinois Pride may be canceled The police said that they cannot supply enough offices to provide Propriet security there are two they are 20 offices shot of the required amount. That sounds bogus to me I know but you know Everybody is really struggling to find police officers and I you know, I think there's a whole story behind that like, you know, maybe Racists don't feel welcome at the police department. So they're not joining in droves anymore Or I don't know what's going on But the police are having a really hard time all over the country trying to find people They should adopt the approach that Middlebury is considering of Hiring undocumented aliens Undocumented Americans. Yeah, and while we're pausing core delayed is the name of the Idaho, Idaho, okay core delaying And Ron DeSantis governor of Florida wants to investigate parents that take their kids to see drag queens He is open to using child's protection laws to outlaw drag shows in the presence of children He implied that he would use the Florida child protection service laws to terminate the parental rights of adults Who take their kids to see drag shows? I'm assuming he's talking mostly about Drake Queen story hours and stuff Mm-hmm during a conference. He said that he has asked his people to look into this idea so a Judge blocks, Texas from investigating families of trans youth That's good news three families filed suit including on one family who said they were reported by hospital staff After their child attempted suicide Rebel Wilson a comedian says she is involved with the woman the 42 year old Actor shared on Instagram her and her girlfriend Ramon agruma and entrepreneur and brand ambassador in LA, so that's that and I have a lot of more stories, but I'm just going to read a few more and then we can move on to Ann and come back to them later Friends and community members gathered this week in candlelight vision visual Fajulio Ramirez 25 who died in April after leaving a bar in New York City He was a social worker from Brooklyn and as you recall We talked about that he got into a cab with three unidentified males and His money was taken and I used I think was like I don't know maybe three thousand dollars And as far as I know, there are still they still have no suspects that We're involved in this murder and The Carolina Panthers hire the NFL's first transgender cheerleader Justine Lindsay age 25 is a black trans woman and she announced she would be joining the Panthers soon Five Tampa Ray players refused to wear the LGBTQ Pride themed jackets because they said it was against their religious beliefs So get rid of them this week's primary race has saw many wins for LGBTQ candidates We'll have more about that North Carolina can't deny health care to trans state workers the Exclusion of coverage for trans people People's care is illegal discrimination a federal judge rule, so that's good news a Texas town rallies around a gay couple after their pride flags were stolen. This is Texas. Here we go Keith dollar and Terry Gardner's community is rallying around the couple Someone set fire to several flags in Dallas the couple moved To this town just outside of Dallas from New Orleans, so Okay, and do you have that story from Oklahoma? About the judge reversing. Yes. Yes. I do good We'll get on to that later because that's optimistic news Okay, I'm glad you had it international headlines strange news from Peru Let me just Share that with you the Constitutional Court of Peru has redet rejected cases Seeking registration of Peruvian same-sex couple's marriages Entered into in other countries The court said bringing in marriage equality requires a change in the nation's Constitution that would be an abuse of the court's position to impose marriage equality That the 2017 inter-american court of human rights marriage equality ruling is not binding on Peru Which of course it is the inter-american human rights system suffers from? Idealization this court said but of course the inter-american court ruling is binding on 20 countries including Peru Peru is part of the inter-american system and the organism that defends and protects these rights is called the Inter-american Court of Human Rights and if the court has taken a decision I believe that all parties are called to respect that decision So I don't know what's going on in Purdue Peru, but it's very strange My worst story of the night involves a young lesbian stoned to death In a township near Johannesburg in South Africa Let me show you a picture before you now her name is Ruth Nikki Chagallway she was 24 she was originally from Zimbabwe and Was brutally murdered her body was found on the 27th of May. She was stoned to death Only on May 31st did the organization confirm her identity She came to South Africa in 2019 her parents disowned her because she was Of her sexual orientation She found a job in a truck shop and started to rent a room weeks before she was killed She and her girlfriend received homophobic threats from guys around the area Wherein they uttered that they both deserve to be raped and killed to add to the tragedy She leaves behind a one-year-old daughter There's an urgent need for a massive intervention in this part of Johannesburg said an activist People live in LGBTQ people live in fear and they can't even disclose their relationships in public The family is awaiting post-mortem results and They need assistance getting the body back to Zimbabwe Which is more challenging because the family is undocumented a candlelight vigil was held on June 3rd and this is One of a series. I mean South Africa has You know LGBTQ rights are enshrined in the Constitution, but there have been all kinds of murders this year It's growing in an alarming rate This is the fifth reported queer individual to be killed in 2022 last month the mutilated body of Non-Casogo Caroline Mowklung 27 who'd been missing for a week was found after her family Desperately searched for her also in May the naked body of 22-year-old Unathi Weber was discovered in Cape Town in March Pinky Shungway a 32-year-old lesbian was stabbed to death just outside of Durban Reportedly because she rejected a man's romantic advances on April 27 22-year-old 25-year-old Musa Zulu was gunned down in full view of the public in Durban He was buying items at a garage when a man said he hated gays and shot him dead in the parking lot Days earlier another LGBTQ plus man 24-year-old Mo Fungo Nego beast was seriously injured in a Suspected hate crime attack by a group of men near a Durban's near the Durban City Hall After leaving a gay nightclub. So that's terrible news from South Africa No, no So in a dramatic switch of gears Let's look a picture look at a picture now at over a thousand people attending Donegals first Pride Parade this weekend more pride news comes from the Baltics and I have to I'd like to explore this in greater detail Nine years there's the Baltic states have a rotating pride system It's neighbors Latvia and Estonia Rotate the pride celebrations this year it was in Vilnius, Lithuania, and I spent a lot of time last On the last show talking about the dire circumstance in Lithuania, but now 10,000 people mostly young adults have flocked to the Capitol It's a country of 2.8 million people in the biggest Baltic country country nine years ago There were neo-Nazis on both sides and more police than participants and onlooker said Since 2009 the annual event has rotated among the capitals of the three countries Gathering local activists and international allies Vilnius hosted Baltic pride for the first time in 2010 Only 400 people marched and that's where all the pulley they have had the pronounced police presence It wasn't easy people looked at us like they were in a zoo said the executive director of Lithuania's biggest LGBT group Our community is very brave to show up and we lost a week have a lot of allies that marched with us big companies like Google Moody's and the Nordic Bank Nordic Baltic Bank Sweet Bank were among the participants and sponsors this year as well as the embassies of the US Canada and Norway and parents of Matthew Shefford also attended under Soviet occupation from 1944 to 1991 Lithuania, Latvia, and Estonia all joined the together with other Europeans In other countries in the eastern block to join the European Union including Poland and Hungary of about which we have Spent a lot of time on this show They're all their human rights records lag behind unlike their Nordic neighbors when it comes to sexual minorities Poland, Romania and Bulgaria rank worse than Lithuania and Latvia and Estonia an economic success story Story remains in the lower half of the ranking in legal protections for queer people Yet things are mostly are slowly changing according to this optimistic article Both Lithuania and Latvian parliaments are currently debating similar bills that were would introduce civil partnerships for same-sex couples Granting them some but not all of the rights of marriage and I reported on this bill being brought forward in Lithuania After several attempts and the bill being watered down and activists said the bill avoids the term family and its wording for example She hopes to secure a parliamentary majority in favor of the measure in the coming weeks and months Now I'd like to show you a picture of Thomas Rescoviceus Lithuania's only openly gay member of parliaments He said the reluctance to grant LGBTQ people further legal recognition Comes mostly not surprisingly from the Catholic Church as well as the occupation of this legacy of the Soviet occupation And then we have a little Account of the deplorable Actions of the Soviet Union, which I'll spare you and I'll tell you about this parliament member He was a lawyer an LGBTQ activist who went into politics to create systemic change He said he will vote for the civil union bill in the hope that it will help ignite more subversive change in the long term I'm not happy with the bill because it's full of compromises. He noted the reality of politics is tough This is just the first step on the road toward equality and Latvia is taking a similar step And you know what this just reminded me of in a national parallel is this gun rights Legislation that is in the US that's so watered down You know, it's not gonna really make almost an embarrassment, but there's a step in the right direction Anyway, getting back to the pride march. We're the first generation that did not grow up under the Soviet occupation A youthful participant explained we grew up in the European Union. We are free to do as we wish It's going to get better He said as pride marchers As the pride march speakers on the floats played global queer anthems from Katy Perry's I kissed a girl to Gloria Gaynor's Legendary I will survive So that's mixed news from Lithuania Now let's turn to there's another story I'd like to get back to I'm not sure if I'll have time for those so The last European story I have involves tennis legend Billy Jean King and you all know what she looks like I'm not gonna show a picture of her posing with Manuel Macron as she receives the Legion of Honor Award on the anniversary of the her historic French open victory and she won this 50 years ago and She's now 78 she said that she is prouder of what I have done off court than what I've accomplished throughout My story tennis career, which has included a total of 39 grand slam titles I guess being the world's number one and winning grand slam tournaments is quite an achievement But I'm proud to have fought for gender equality She dominated remember she won the Bobby Riggs battle of the sexes game that we all watched staring at the TV then in 2022 is among a hundred over 170 current and former athletes and women's sports who signed the friend of the court brief and support of trans girls and women's playing Sports other prominent signatories included World Cup champion champion Megan Rapino WNBA Trailblazer Candace Parker, Bessie Sauerbrunn, Megan Duggan Like Leisha Clarendon and Kate Sowers There's no place in any sport for discrimination of any kind King declared I'm proud to support all transgender athletes who simply want to access an Opportunity to compete in the sport they love She continued the global athletic community grow stronger when we welcome in champion All athletes including LGBTQI athletes so I'm finished with Europe. Let's go to Asia in my next segment. Okay I was thinking Billie Jean King is really a hero. She were all about you know of which Megan Rapinoe and she's her successor. Yeah, you know Shoulders she stands on. Yes. Okay Okay, so anyone who's been following the mom player front porch forum. There was an incident Over the weekend where a pride flag was vandalized in the downtown area and I reached out to the person who did the posting Who shared that they put out pride? Symbols in the past This is the first time there's been an incident such as this that's occurred at their house And it's the first time this has occurred in their neighborhood. However, it reminds us that Regardless of what it is that we are trying to create We need to be ever vigilant and if you are experiencing any degree of bias or Vandalism, please report it So that we can track what it is this happening particularly as you're reporting on Idaho and Patriot Front and the Proud Boys Because we saw their leaflets up throughout downtown Montpellier in the past. So we are not immune but a positive flip to the defacing of the pride flag is The Harvard Union School in Duxbury Their school board unanimously approved Displaying the pride flag for the remainder of their school year After being submitted a two-page essay That was written by a student who identifies as non-binary and Who shared with the school board their experience of harassment and bullying at a Harvard Union? So good going little follow-up on New Hampshire and eight house bill 1731 and this is the Parents rights bill that we've been reporting on for for several shows and that Linda reported on our last show that Governor Sununu said, you know, if it gets to my desk in its current form I will veto this and their state Attorney General said, you know The manner in which this bill is written. I think that it is in conflict with our non-discrimination statutes Well, Governor Sununu didn't have to veto it because There was some controversy within the conference committee itself and members were replaced Because they were members that weren't going along with the more conservative Senate version so when the more conservative Conference committee version went back to the house They voted it down 176 to 171 that's still very close, but this bill died So Posit yeah positive in Massachusetts They've introduced a parentage bill That will extend Who qualifies as being a parent Establishes relationships a protocol for disputes talks about surrogacy and Assisted reproduction This is the same bill that Vermont passed three years ago and Massachusetts is poised to do it now Which means that main Vermont, Massachusetts will all have these very positive parenting bills that acknowledge LGBTQ plus parents and Looks at parenting from an entirely different perspective not oh, what's the biology of this? But what's in the best interest of the child? What a kind of time? Radical concept and sort of following up on that You know looking at what Linda was reporting about Texas and the hospital staff feeling that they needed to report this chent transgender youth and their parents and Stepping in I'm gonna I lost my place here Connecticut, Rhode Island, Maine, New Hampshire, Vermont We have all enacted protocols or or bills that say We're not going to cooperate with other states that try to impede on providing care to transgender youth or goes after their parents If you bring your child to Vermont or any of these other states for care that's a confidential record and it does not get reported back and Massachusetts They were looking at if they really needed to introduce a bill to ensure That protection and that integrity and their attorney general is saying you know I think the existing language in their non-discrimination statutes does in fact provide that protection so New England Yes, we are rapidly becoming Like two different countries exactly we are we are rapidly becoming we are we're the place where you are safe and you are protected good Excuse me so back to white supremacists Must be I know In Idaho mm-hmm, so They were at this hotel and someone tipped off the FBI or the police that They saw these guys getting into a you-all 31 of them wearing masks Proud boy insignias caps Cocky pants same shirts Same navy blue shirts beige hats and masks covering their faces Well, that would look kind of suspicious The police arrested them ten minutes after they left the hotel And right winger and Trump supporters are flooding social media now telling people The usual claims that the Patriot front is a secret FBI Operation to make them look bad Okay, the the key component though is not only were they all dressed in this sort of paramilitary They were heavily armed They filled the you-all what I think it was you know enough to Supply a small army. Yeah They declare that they're intent was to cause a riot at the proper rate Yeah, you know and they're talking about doing that at voting polls now, too like they're asking people to Become voter What do they call them poll watchers, right? And you know that and they want these destructive people to be there to kind of like really scare off Democrats who might run so we all need to be aware of that Um Swallowed is a queer horror film This film focuses on two friends on the last night before one of them leaves their backward town in Maine For Los Angeles for a career in gay porn So that sounds like it was Jonathan Agassi No, I don't okay Nicole Serrano ex-Christian singer and songwriter comes out as a lesbian. That's good news, huh? Dre Queen story hours canceled in a North Carolina town due to violent threats The town is apex North Carolina. So if you live around here, I don't know Now here's another movie which I'm really looking forward to starting.  I should be very fun I may have to bring you a second television for your apartment. No kidding Pauline Murray's documentary of the non-binary actresses life wins the Peabody Award. Oh good so a Teen is arrested or fourth right knee a mass shooting at one of Florida's pride events. Oh When this is this is good because I know they've been doing this probably for 200 years is The New York Port Authority is to stop undercover pop public bathroom stings. Oh finally, I know a Gay trust fund ears body is found and his ex has been arrested for murder Richard Young 22 Had been missing since 2019. He was the heir to a two million dollar trust fund His ears the his body was found after being missing for three years So that's not so good and we reported last time about the lesbian mom who went to court and Her name was on the birth certificate with her partner and they took and the judge took her name off Well, um So now she's been her name has been reinstated on the birth birth certificate the ruling has been reversed Chris Williams and Rebecca Wilson were married in 2019. They had a child throughout official insemination And both were initially on the birth certificate So they took it away and they put it back. So that is good news And then Paul Gunther keeper of cult of a cultural fame dies at 65 He helped engineer behind the scenes rescues of monuments murals and museums and The preservation of time squares dazzling lights He died of suicide and and this was confirmed by his longtime partner Joel Saunders, so he'd do a lot for New York and Ohio bill being trans girls from female sports could require genital checks Girls of all ages could be required to have full pelvic exams if the opposing coach Questions the identity the gender identity of a player. That is scary. Yeah, that's awful Okay, well, and I have some more stories, but we're kind of running out of time So I will have to add them To next week's agenda so that you can do some of your stories and Keith will have time for his Yeah, yeah So you go girl, okay Let's start with a picture of Thailand from Thailand Bangkok. See is the first LGBTQ pride March in 16 years Um Thailand it's the first March with local backing Thousands of people and allies took part in the first pride with local backing March came as parliament considers increasing Right the rights of same-sex couples. We'll see what happens there Jerusalem celebrates 20 years of pride marches thousands again March in a colorful parade There's a little controversy in Kuwait Which criticism it which criticized the US Embassy over pro-LGBTQ? Tweets and they don't want the flag. They don't want the US Embassy flying the Rainbow flag supporting gay rights Yeah President Joe Biden issued a message of solidarity Kuwait officials criticized the Embassy for supporting homosexuality and demanded That it not happen again Now let not surprising. Let's let's take a look at Kuwait Where LGBTQ people are severely restricted and it is illegal there for men to be gay Pair of tweets published in English and Arabic from the US Embassy quoted Biden is saying all humans should be able to live without fear No matter who they are or whom they love too much for the Kuwait authorities the post Was supposed to mark the beginning it was posted to mark the beginning of pride month And it appeared with the picture of the flag Rights for LGBTQ people are limited in socially conservative Kuwait One of the 69 countries in the world where being gay is criminalized According to the Gulf States penal code men who have same-sex relations can be punished by up to 17 years. It was a criminal offense up until this year In Kuwait to be trans a court has now overturned the law as unconstitutional use states the US State State Department spokesperson told the BBC United the United States proudly advances efforts around the globe to protect all individuals including LGBTQ plus persons from violence and abuse criminalization discrimination and stigma and to empower marginalized populations and local civil society Including the LGBTQ plus community. So the US is sticking to its guns Kuwait is irritated. I have very exciting North American stories. I'll start with the more Most stayed only five Mexican states now lack marriage equality 26 states in the federal capital Mexico City have marriage equality though Four five or six of those still need to codify it in their laws Meaning legislative action remains required in 10 or 11 states Now I'm counting Linda has granted me permission to cover some National entertainment news in the form of the Tony Awards Which was very gay this time it aired on CBS Channel 3 and diverse Let's start and I want you know all the pictures are copyrighted So I couldn't show you pictures, but you know, you can go online and see pictures and recordings and reportage She was fabulous Adriana do boss I think But let's start with a strange loop Which is a scalding story about a gay black theater artist Confronting self-doubt and societal disapproval This won the Tony Award for best new musical Sunday night giving another huge accolade to a challenging contemporary Production that had already won the Pulitzer Prize the soul-bearing show nurtured by nonprofits and Developed over many years triumphed over two flashy pop musicals MJ jukebox musical about the entrepreneur Michael Jackson and six an Irreverent consideration of Henry the eighths ill-fated wives in the six-way race the strange loop Got praise from critics on Sunday night Michael R. Jackson the writer who spent nearly two decades working on it acknowledged how personal the project was As he collected her first Tony Award for the best book of the musical I wrote it at a time when I didn't know What I was going to do with my life. He said I didn't know how I was going to move forward. I felt unseen I felt unheard I felt misunderstood and I just wanted to create a little bit of a life raft for myself as a black gay man Take me out Emerged victorious in the best play revival category particularly a particularly strong field That included productions of American Buffalo I learned to drive trouble in mind and for colored girls who have considered suicide when the rainbow is enough Written by Richard Greenberg. Take me out first ran on Broadway in 2003 and won the best play Tony that year this year's revival presented by the nonprofit's second stage theater Is about what happens when a baseball player Portrayed in this production by Jesse Williams comes out as gay Jesse Tyler Ferguson picked up his first Tony for his portrayal of the player's investment visor visor The host was Ariana Dubose Who is queer And it not only honored shows Performers writers and designers, but also under studies who carried so many performances of the season Dubose Won this year's Academy Award as Anita in West Side Story paid tribute to the season's Extraordinary diversity saying I feel like the phrase great white way is becoming more of a nickname as opposed to a how-to guide She noted the season's high volume of work by black writers Which came about as producers and theater owners scrambled to respond to demands for more representation and Opportunity for black artists after the national unrest over racism during the summer of 2020 This year's class of Tony nominees featured a large number of black artists Reflecting the fact that work by black writers led to more jobs for black performers designers directors and more Tony award six co-creator Toby Marlowe has become the first non-binary composer lyricist to one best score and the first openly Trans-nominated performer was el Morgan Lee And we're going to New York and we're going to see a bunch of play so he's going to tell you all about that when we get back Well, I don't want to bore you with them, but it's very exciting and the Tony's were electric They were really good. Everybody seems so excited to be back. Yes to be working to having you know I mean it was the electricity was in the air in the show Well, now let's move to Canada. I know I'm taking I'm stealing keys Bailawick, but I have a movie that Linda and I saw that I'd love to tell you about it's a 2021 Canadian dramatic romantic coming-of-age film directed by Bretton Hanam running time 100 minutes country Canada Language English and Mick Mac It's an extension of Hanam's earlier short film wildfire Which was the winner of the award for the best film at the set at the Nova Scotia Awards in 2020 We'd like that. It was really good It stars Philip Lewitsky as Lincoln a young man in his late teens who was raised disconnected from his maternal Mick Mac heritage by his abuse of white father Following the discovery that his mother Sarah whom he had long been told was dead is in fact still alive He takes his younger brother Travis on a journey to find her On route they meet the openly two-spirit Paz may who becomes both a guide to Lincoln and Reconnecting in reconnecting with his indigenous tools roots and a love interest Let's take a look at the trailer for Wild Hood That's how your mother felt Dead today, she left his house. All right, I want you You're into dirt bikes What's your favorite ride? No, no Yeah, you don't need your help Regalia for dancing a good dancer can make a big cat. Yeah, I didn't get it That was really good. I recommend it highly it's on Hulu and we saw it on it was part of a festival But I'm sure you can find it and you might have and if you have who that's the place to go And it may be doing the circuit. I'm sure it is. Yeah So really quickly before I do the trivia Elections they really matter and if you have candidates That you really want to see make it to the general election you need to get out of vote in the primaries and Early primary voting starts June 25th, which is only a couple of weeks away And the primary here in Vermont is August 9th Traditionally primaries has a low attendance the people who show up Are the ones who are determining who goes on to the general election? And we have several out candidates that are going to need our support if they're going to make it to the general election Early voting for the general election starts October 1st You know the general election is Tuesday, November 8th. You can do Early voting or what we used to call absentee voting by either going on to the Secretary of State's website Or getting in touch with your town clerk to have a ballot mailed to you because you may wake up and forget That it's election day Or you may be out holding a sign to Support your best candidate. So the trivia question other than us Who is of course your favorite LGBTQ plus theme show? There have been others and in the late 1990s there was a one that actually got a fair amount of Recognition this is Vermont. This is Vermont. This is Vermont specific I mean, I was very clear that these are our shows Okay, and this was in Burlington and it was what was then called V cam and they did it live and People would phone in and I remember when they interviewed first lieutenant governor Barbara Snelling and Then me and then nurse ratchet Who said this is what you well know It was nurse ratchet from the safer sex program of Vermont care saying this is what's going on out there And this is why you need to wrap it I imagine that sitting next to Barbara Snelling the show was Sherry Tartt and Yolanda they were outrageous drag queens and Yolanda is actually still performing in Brooklyn and Has gained quite the reputation and the reason that it's come up is There were 70 episodes and When Yolanda was here on a visit brought all of the old tapes back and they are now in digital Format and available in their library So in our library No, no, no the what it what had been v cam it is now merged with the cable access program in Burlington.  Okay, I Have a Ukrainian story you do Because she's looking up and it's like we've got it. We got a couple of minutes We all have two minutes. Well, we have four but we have to say goodbye and anyway, go ahead all right, let's I wanted to spotlight an organization in Berlin called Quartira which welcomes you Ukrainian refugees and Russian exiles and I have a picture to go with it This is Polina Punagova 27 who's Russian and her partner Julia Maznik? 37 who was born in Kiev and they were vacationing in Budapest when Putin invaded Russia, they live in St. Peter'sburg I'm sorry. Thank you. Thank you. He invaded from Russia to Ukraine and So there all the flights were canceled their passports were in question and So they didn't know what to do and their dog and their cat were home being pet sat And in Kiev in St. Peter'sburg where they lived But Hulia's mother was living in Kiev and still is and she you know, she didn't want to leave and they're worried about her So anyway, this organization Quartira in Berlin came together helped them and even brought their pets To reunite with them. So they're joyful and they're settled and their Terrible things are going on for Russian People in Russia who opposed the war there being tortured only imagine So but I'm glad we get to take a quick look at their story Did the mother come no the mother though has moved to a safer part of Kiev and seems to be less Threatened threatened. Okay. Yeah So on that note Does anybody we have about a minute left does anybody have anything to discuss or we're out of here right here? All right, until next time remember. It's more important than ever we just


This is stock number 20T56, we are here at Summit Automotive in Fond du Lac, Wisconsin. You're new and used Ram and light duty truck headquarters. Today we are checking out this brand new 2020 Ram 1500 crew cab, 5 foot 7 inch short box. This one has the 5.7 liter V8 Hemi motor. It is a Laramy level 1 and maximum steel metallic is the color. We're going to do a walk around here just to show you the vehicle from all the different light angles and a full 360 for you. You'll notice it does have the multi function tailgate which is one of the main options on this particular truck. It's a pretty cool tailgate, we'll get to that in just a little bit. If you want to see more pictures of this truck in the upper right hand part of your screen is a link right to this vehicle on our website. Click that and check us out there so you can check out the original window sticker and all the photos at our website. We're going to get up close here and check out all the options on this truck. Bridgestone Duler H slash L. These are 275, 55R20 tires and they come with the painted and polished aluminum 20 inch rims. It is a highway tread pattern on those tires. Maximum steel metallic, one of my favorite colors on the trucks. Has the LED headlamps, the LED running lights and the LED fog lamps. Front bumper parking sensors on this truck you see you get the chrome trimmed grille. The fender flares, this one has factory wheel to wheel side steps. So they go from one wheel to the other so that you can get into the bed of the truck pretty easily. We'll take a look at the original window sticker here. Feel free to pause it at any second while taking a look at this. So this one has the bed utility group, the Laramie level 1 and the under seat compartment storage, anti-spin differential, hemi, wheel to wheel side steps.  You'll continue on down the truck here. Those wheelhouse liners are the plastic wheelhouse liners, keeps your frame and underbody looking good. Rear coil spring suspension in these trucks so they ride really smooth down the highway. It comes with the receiver hitch, 4 pin and 7 pin wiring and that multifunction tailgate. So this one has the power drop down tailgate so you press that button twice and it'll come on down for you. You can see this one has the spray and bed liner part of that bed utility group. You get the storage rails with the tie down cleats also LED bed lighting and you got those braces in the corner there. I think that's part of the multi tailgate package there. You get those with that tailgate. So to open this tailgate you got two different ways to do it. If you go with the top latch that lowers it like so. If you do the bottom latch that'll actually open up this side and then there's a handle down here for this side. You can see they kind of lock into place which allows you to get right up to the bed of the truck to reach all of your storage and everything in there quite easily. So when you close these you always want to close this door first. If you don't close this door first you're going to have damage to your truck. So you can see that closes nice and solidly. You got your dual rear exhaust LED tail lamps as well as the headlamps on the new body style ramps. We have the capitalist fuel fill and this one has the enter and go option. So how that works you just get the key fob. Doors are locked right? I'm going to put the key fob in my pocket as you can see right there in the reflection. So I'm just going to put my hand in the door handle and watch the doors unlock for me. You can see that pretty cool. Blind spot monitoring, heated mirrors and built in blind spot mirrors also LED side lights.  You get the Laramie stitched backrest, the gray piping throughout. Both these seats are heated, power driver seat lumbar, power pedals, auto headlamps, power windows, power locks, and memory driver seat. These mirrors also power fold in like so. And we're going to hop inside the truck here. As you can see this one has the 7 inch LCD display with the digital spinometer, outside temp, compass display. You can change those corners to read whatever you pretty much like and also the information center is great on this truck. You get the heated leather wrapped steering wheel, cruise controls on the right, gear selector on the right, Bluetooth and information center controls on the left, audio controls on the back of the steering wheel. This one has the 8.4 touch screen radio, AMFM and Sirius XM radio capabilities. You can also do your climate controls here for your seats. You got heated and cooled seats. You can check out your backup camera which is an HD backup camera and you can see that those grid lines are dynamic meaning that they turn when you turn the steering wheel to kind of show you where the truck is going to be going plus they have the nice line right down the center to line up your receiver hitch to whatever you may be towing. You can also do your climate controls here.  If you don't like those you can do them all down here as well. Other thing I will mention about this radio, this is the 8.4 4C so it has Android Auto and Apple CarPlay capabilities. You get the nice wood grain trim up top and this one does have the Alpine sound system. Push button start, push button 4WD including 4WD Auto and your 8-speed automatic transmission.    Home link controls for your garage door security systems and lighting systems. And we'll take a quick look at the back seats and then do one more final walk around. Lots of room in the back of these rams.  You also have speakers in the ceiling part of that Alpine sound group. These seats do recline just a little bit. Hard to do when you've got gloves on and one-handed but they do recline so these seats actually pull out a little bit. You've got the latch child safety system for your child car seats and you do that with that release right there but it's kind of hard to release it and pull it all at the same time with one hand especially with gloves on. This is your storage bin that was on the buyer's guide or window sticker there. You got your RAM bins underneath with removable bins so you can put ice and drinks in there and then dump them out when you're all done and it's like you have two mini coolers wherever you go. Finally you got two USBs and two USB C's back here as well as a 115 volt 400 watt plug-in. Got the nice suede and wood grain trim on the doors and you get the child safety locks on the back doors as well. We'll take one more quick walk around here. I would personally like to thank you for checking out the video today and hopefully from this HD video you will have been able to see the truck and get a really good idea of the color options on this specific vehicle and as always I thank you for checking out the video and if you'd like to check out more pictures of this truck or one of our other 450 new and used cars, trucks, SUVs, minivans, Wranglers, you name it we got it go to our website www.SummitAuto.com full pictures and descriptions from two locations all at SummitAuto.com and if you'd like to check out more HD videos you can go to youtube.com slash SummitAuto remember to like, subscribe, and share on this video and all the videos that you see there in fact in a second you will see a link to subscribe to our YouTube channel on your left a link to more new inventory videos like this one on your right if you have not been to our website on the bottom link to this vehicle on our website click those check us out and we're super excited to help you with this brand new 2020 RAM 1500 Crew Cab Short Box Laramie Level 1 thanks again


Hey there I'm Drew and you are listening to or maybe watching The Anxious Truth. This is the podcast that covers all things anxiety, anxiety disorders, and anxiety recovery. So if you're dealing with things like panic attacks, agoraphobia, OCD, or health anxiety, this is the place for you and I'm happy you're here. This week on the podcast we have two absolute legends in the field of anxiety and anxiety disorders. Drs. Sally Winston and Marty Seif are here to talk about anticipatory anxiety. That's that thing where you know you have a scary or challenging thing coming up and you begin to get really anxious, panic, or worry excessively about it for even weeks before it's going to happen. So let's get to that right now. Hello everybody, welcome back to The Anxious Truth. This is podcast episode number 247 recorded in February of 2023. I am Drew Lincellata, creator and host of The Anxious Truth. If you are a first time viewer or listener and you just sort of stumbled onto the podcast, welcome. I'm glad you're here. I hope you find it helpful. If you're a returning listener or returning viewer, welcome back. It's good to see you. So this week on the podcast we have Drs. Sally Winston and Marty Seif on to talk about anticipatory anxiety.  You know it's going to be challenging and difficult for you. So you begin to get really anxious or you panic or you begin to ruminate and think and worry excessively about the event long before it even happens. That's anticipatory anxiety. And it's incredibly common no matter what variant of an anxiety disorder you're dealing with at the moment. So we're going to get into that. They just wrote a book called Overcoming Anticipatory Anxiety, which we will talk about in the interview. The interview lasts about 20 or 30 minutes.  But before we get to it, just a quick reminder that The Anxious Truth is more than just this podcast episode. There are 246 other free podcast episodes that came before it. There are three books that I've written about anxiety and anxiety recovery. There are courses and workshops and webinars and all kinds of free social media content all on my website at theanxiestruth.com. If you're following my work and you dig it and you want to find a way to support it, all the ways to do that are also on the website at theanxiestruth.com slash support. Financial support buying something is never, never required, but always appreciated. And no matter how you support this work, whether it's just writing a podcast review, giving me a five star rating or hitting like on a YouTube video, I really appreciate it. Thank you so much. So go over to theanxiestruth.com and avail yourself of all the resources. Now let's get into the discussion with Marty Seif and Sally Winston on anticipatory anxiety based on the book that they've written. Come back at the end afterwards. I will give you all of the links, the ways to get the book and all their other books and all the other good stuff that we talk about in this episode. You can find everything by the way at theanxiestruth.com slash 247, which is on the screen below me if you're watching on YouTube. Anyway, that's enough of me rambling. Let's get to it right now and I'll be back at the end to wrap it up. Okay, everybody, as promised here with me in the studio, which is the same office I'm always in and I guess their studios are doctors Seif and Winston on this side and there are authors of so many of the books I know you all love. I know I'm a huge fan today. We're going to talk about this one. We're talking about anticipatory anxiety because it's this is your newest, your latest I assume. Yes, it is called overcoming anticipatory anxiety and it is written by these two pioneers and I know for most of you guys heroes in the field and I'm fanboying a little bit here. So hang in there with me. But yeah, we'll walk through the whole anticipatory anxiety thing. It's a huge topic in this community for sure. It stumbles a lot of people stumble on it. So if you guys are into it, we'll just kind of walk through the book. What made you I'll throw that to either of you. What made you write this book? What was the impetus to write this one? Well, I can answer that very easily. I've had considerable anxiety in my life. And as I struggled to kind of overcome that anxiety, it became very clear to me that there was a distinct component of anxiety, which could only be described as anticipatory anxiety. And can I go on and talk a little bit about anticipatory?  And although it's not a diagnosis in itself, it's really connected to just that every disorder that has anxiety or obsessive compulsive disorder, it's connected to lots of some mood disorders in some way. And it's and it's a it's it's really ubiquitous. And it is extremely common. So if you are concerned about taking an elevator tomorrow and you're worrying about it, that's anticipatory anxiety.  If you have intrusive thoughts and you're worried about yelling something out in a classroom and you're walking to the classroom, that is anticipatory anxiety. There's sometimes there's a real big cognitive component to it where you're worrying about it. And sometimes you can just wake up with a stomach ache and realize that, oh my goodness, I have a test today that I didn't study for. That's the concept of anticipatory anxiety. So I suffered from it and I've experienced it a lot in my life. And it felt to me that it was something that we should write about. Yeah, I would agree. It's kind of a normal part of the human experience, even outside the realm of an anxiety disorder or mood disorder, everybody, like, oh my goodness, I have a presentation to give. I'm so nervous about it. That's a normal part of human experience because we have an imagination and we think about what's coming up. But the reason we wanted to write a book is that if you think about it, anticipatory anxiety is the primary driver of avoidance, avoidance behavior, either behavioral avoidance, like canceling something or trying to get someone else to do it for you, or making excuses all the time to not do something, or experiential avoidance, which is a way of being in the situation, but also trying really hard not to actually be there or experience it. So because avoidance behavior is so much a part of what drives the disability of anxiety or the things that get in the way of living well, if we felt like this was a topic that was underrepresented and we wanted to address it. I am amazed that nobody has written this book before. I don't know that anybody has written a book specifically on this, but you're right, it bridges all of the different diagnoses. You see it all over this community, regardless of the struggle that anybody has. They deal with anticipatory anxiety. So one of the things that I loved about the book is the way you step through a bunch of different things, which is great. But I always like to acknowledge the challenge that it presents. So people that are listening today are dealing with panic disorder. They're dealing with agoraphobia, the name of the OCD, health anxiety. And in the end, those challenges are hard enough. Anticipatory anxiety always seems to make the challenge seem even harder than it already is. It's almost people interpret it as confirmation that the challenge is in fact damn near impossible. Is that right? If I'm as anxious as I am now and I'm not even there and it's three weeks from now, what will it be like when I'm actually there? And so what we do know is that anticipatory anxiety lies. It doesn't tell you the truth about how things are really going to go or what's really going to happen. It's not a predictor. It's not a warning. It's not a sign. And yet it sure feels like it. Oh yeah, feels like. So it goes back to the, and it goes back to the idea that anxiety is a great blocker. It's a great trickster. It kind of fools you and in lots of different ways. Yeah. It also, but it's also very helpful for people to be able to distinguish the fact that there are, there is the anxiety of something that they're concerned about. For example, I'm afraid of flying. Okay, there's that's that's a good one because people often worry about it for a long time beforehand. And there's the actual anxiety or distress when a person is in the situation that they're concerned about. And then there's a separate component anticipatory anxiety. And sometimes being able to separate that between the two conceptually is really transformative for people to say, Oh, this is anticipatory anxiety. This is my imagination in some way. Furthermore, it's a really good once you get a person to focus on the fact that they're that this is anticipatory anxiety. It's a really good way to help them focus on the method and they how can I put it the mechanism of anxiety generation because when you're sitting in your room and you're living on a Tuesday night, getting freaked out about the flight that you're supposed to take on a Saturday morning, there's no excuse you're actually in your imagination. There's no way that you can say, Well, I'm afraid that the plane's going to correct. No, you're really in your imagination now. And that's a helpful conceptualization people and helps us make the point that we want to make that somehow we in some way with our imagination and our thinking and the way we perceive our bodily reactions that we somehow sort of generate the distress that we feel, which is super powerful. I think if you can get people to get on board with that idea, because so many people in the community we're addressing see the anxiety itself as the problem. So yeah, they're nervous about the challenge because you wrote anticipatory anxiety is being afraid of being afraid of being afraid, which I Yes, that's the third. That's that's the it's the fear of the fear of the fear. It's like third. And I think that's pretty accurate. Would you I think that's correct? Yeah. Yeah. I mean, would you Dr. Winston, do you have anything to add on that? Let me give an example of the fear of the fear of the fear just because it sounds so weird when you just say it that way. But the example that we use, I think we use it in the book is I'm afraid of a bee. That's fear. Then I'm afraid that if I see a bee, I'll have a panic attack and drop dead of a heart attack. That's fear of fear. And then I have a camping trip coming up in three months. I'm scared I'm going to see a bee and have a heart attack and die. It's not worth it. I think I'll cancel. That's fear of fear of fear. And you may have mentioned it, Sally, in just a minute ago. I don't remember, but certainly another way of thinking of anticipatory anxiety, it's the avoidant component of anxiety. It's the aspect of anxiety that says, let me stay away from it. Oh, yes, you mentioned it a number of times. Sally avoided either physically or, you know, just sort of imagine that you're not there in some way. Yeah, experiential avoidance. I think to what the mechanism is could be really helpful for them because often I hear people declare failure because they're having anticipatory anxiety already. Like that's I'm not failing already because I feel so I love when you say, well, yeah, just recognize what's happening. You're afraid, which is allowed, because you're afraid of being afraid of being afraid. It's not a failure. Now, and in fact, when you when you get better and even are able to do all these things, anticipatory anxiety is usually the very last part to go because we can't help ourselves from thinking forward into the future and imagining what might happen and also having memories of things that have happened that intrude into our awareness. So getting out that door, getting over the hump or pressing the submit button or whatever it is that the action is is affected by anticipatory anxiety, even after you've been doing everything pretty well. It's just our body remembers our mind remembers and and we go through the same mechanisms. You know, and we have, you know, if you have an anxiety problem, and you have a sticky mind, which is one of the things that we talk about a lot, you tend to make the thinking errors and the looping kinds of round and round thinking that sticky minds give you. And that doesn't necessarily go away.  That's just part of that normal human experience also, like expecting anticipatory anxiety to go away forever permanently is not realistic because everybody gets nervous about stuff. Now, as a matter of fact, it's the opposite. There are people who comfortably do things over and over and over again, and still experience episodes or surges of anticipatory anxiety prior to do that. And to some extent, if a person says, okay, this is my anticipatory anxiety, I know from past experience, it's, it's, it's a poor predictor. I know from past experiences, when I'm in that situation, I do find it's a way of managing that anxiety in the present. You know, I tell people, anticipatory anxiety is real anxiety, but it's anxiety generated by and it's anxiety generated by your present thoughts. But the content of the thoughts are about something in the future, but it's present anxiety. And to pay attention to that. And when you're in that situation. Yeah, I had a question today from somebody exactly on that. Well, they have a problem with needles and they're doing so much better in their recovery. But if I know that I'm going to the doctor and they're going to stick me, even though I've had it done a thousand times, I am freaked out until they do it. And then I'm totally cool. So I think it's a great illustration. There are enormous numbers of illustrations of anticipatory anxiety. Partly as I've had so much anticipatory anxiety in my life, I couldn't think of it. But for example, one of the issues that the people who have trouble with elevators who have panic in elevators in some way, it's, it's sometimes a difficult issue to, to, it's a difficult anxiety to manage in some way. Part of the reason is that it's mostly anticipatory anxiety. If you speak to someone, they're in the elevator. And what they're really worrying is when I get to the floor and the elevator stops, will the door open? So it's all anticipatory anxiety. And so the actual exposure is just that one second when they wait for the pause for the door open. Or another comment is lots of people who, who are afraid of flying, they, they have anticipatory anxiety about, about turbulence. So they're on the plane, worrying, and that's anticipatory anxiety, will we hit bumpy air? So it's really, it's, when you think of it that way, a lot of our anxieties are in anticipation of what I think frightens me. Yeah. Yeah. Which makes perfect sense. Living in the future. Yeah. It's not always about fear, though.  And if you find yourself unwilling to experience the emotion or the physical sensations, then you get anticipatory anxiety because you keep hoping that that won't happen. And you keep trying to do something in the present to make the fact that that is likely to happen or might happen go away. And so the struggle with the anticipatory anxiety and the struggle whether or not to commit to do the thing that you said you were going to do, that actually increases the anticipatory anxiety. And one of the things that we know is that avoiding a decision about going or trying to make a commitment sort of maybe with a back out plan is actually less helpful than deciding you're going to go no matter how you feel. But that waffling back and forth, the indecisive. Waffling, you can call it waffling, it's actually reinforcing in our model, it's actually reinforcing the anxiety, the anticipatory anxiety, avoidance. And Sally brought something up. When you write a book together, because Sally and I co-author lots of things, sometimes by the end of the book you sort of forget who wrote which part and who thought of this thing. But I know that Sally, I mean this is definitely Sally's input. At one point, because she brought it, we say that commitment is the antidote to avoidance. Okay, and I know that that's Sally's input, I'm pretty sure you do. And I think that's a really important issue because the fact is avoidance is what maintains anxiety and commitment, no matter how you feel, is in the long term what actually is the therapeutic process, the therapeutic ingredient that reduces anxiety in some way. And I think a lot of what we talk about in the body of the book are subtle ways in which people try to avoid and then we give them an approach that says, okay, here's how to commit. I think we maybe use the word therapeutic, surrender and commit or something. But it's the notion of I'm going to do it, I'm reducing my avoidance and that's going to help me overcome the same anxiety. Yeah, I think one question I think people usually have is, so are you telling me that if I commit, and I see this all the time, like my family really wants to go on vacation, but I'm still not sure because I'm just getting over my agoraphobia. And so they don't want to buy the plane tickets, I'm going to buy them, no, I'm not. And so people, well, if I hit the buy button, are you telling me that I won't be anxious anymore? And the answer is no, it means you probably will, but at least now you have a path to move through it more productively. Yeah, that's one of the brilliances of the original Southwest model that you could cancel anytime. And that's actually a problem for people because if you know you can cancel, then you don't settle in your mind that you're going. And that back and forth actually escalates your anxiety.  But the important thing about this is that if you understand what anxiety is, you understand it's not dangerous, that it's distress, but it's not dangerous. You're not going crazy. It doesn't mean you can't go. It doesn't mean that you are in danger in some way. Your body is giving you false alarm signals. And you have to understand enough about anxiety so that you don't respond to the false alarms as if they're true alarms. Sally, actually, when you're mentioning that, it reminds me. The two general suggestions that we make for people is we'd like people to have a, to change their, a change in perspective. That's what we're talking about, but also a change in attitude. There's a natural, and what that means is to lean towards anxiety rather than to get away from anxiety. So when you buy your ticket, and I had a lot of experience with that because I ran the spirit flying group for, for 19 years, we were, and I would insist that people buy their ticket after the first meeting. And there was a lot of resistance. But, but when people did it, they realized that they were leaning towards anxiety.  I tell people, look, a day without anxiety, it's like a day without sunshine, you know, because the fact is it allows you to really learn to practice exactly what we're talking about in some way. So it puts you into that, into that mode. The real issue is people buy it by a ticket, they get anxious, but that in their mind is not a commitment because then they say, well, I could always go out, maybe I can get a credit and all these kind of mental machinations, these are actually many avoidances, or as you would say, waffling or back and forth. The notion that I'm leaning into anxiety, and I'm not going to allow myself to consider the possibility of not doing it, that's a much more productive therapeutic perspective. Well, that puts the target on just the plane that flight and onto the rest of your life also. Like if I get better at this episode, it helps me later, not just now. Yeah, the important thing is to understand what leaning in really means, because people think that it means that, first of all, that you have to accept being miserable forever, which is not what we're saying. But also people tend to do something called white knuckle or force themselves to do things that they're scared to do with the attitude of hoping that it's over as soon as possible, trying really, really hard not to feel anxious, pushing at themselves in some way that actually isn't very helpful. And that's what we call paradoxical effort. Because one of the things that we're aware of is that effort inside the mind works very differently from effort outside the mind. If I want to move a table, I will put my hands on it, put in effort and push, and hopefully it's not too heavy a table and I can move it across the room. But if I have a feeling or a thought or a sensation in my body, and I put in the same kind of effort, stop the thought, get rid of the sensation, make this go away, it works backwards. It actually makes it all worse. And so understanding that the inside of the mind doesn't respond to that kind of effort that you need to be willing to feel what you're feeling, experience what you're experiencing and not feel like you have to do something to make it go away. And most of the people that we run into, of course, are problem solvers, action people, people who want to figure out a way. And the idea that the way is to not do anything and to allow the experience to unfold is extremely difficult. It's not a natural position to take. And so that is part of the training or the message of the book is that it's not natural to you. What's going to be natural is to look for a solution, find an answer, analyze this so it'll go away in all of the ways that people's problems solve in the real world. And it doesn't work for this. One of the things that you guys wrote in the book that I had a big highlight on was which what I want to do is in our last 10 minutes, I want to connect it to GAD because you did and I had a huge highlight there because it seems like anticipatory anxiety and the traits of somebody with GAD are a match made in heaven. Like the problem solving thing you're just talking about. Then I'm going to talk about how you start to deconstruct some of the beliefs that justify the worry. And then how are you going to get somebody to start to practice moving through anticipatory anxiety? So the GAD thing, when you connected that, that was one of those fist pump moments, like yes, 100% correct. This is your experience, I'm guessing. They come hand in hand, I would guess. We've believed for a long time that generalized anxiety disorder can be looked at as the OCD light because the way that it works is even though the content may not be bizarre or strange, it may be things that other people worry about too, the way that it works has the same structure as OCD. It starts with a what if and then that's your imagination. And then there's something at the end of the sentence, what if something? And then the other side of worry is some attempt to make the worry go away and that occupies the compulsion place. Usually the compulsions in generalized anxiety disorder are all in your head. So they're obvious. So when they're not obvious, so that when people say I want to stop worrying, they don't realize that the worry actually has two parts. There's the pop up what if, and then there's the attempt to make yourself feel better or make the what if go away or make the anxiety or the disgust or the upset that went with the what if go away. And that alternates just the same way as it does in OCD. So it very much is part of a continuum. And I think for people like that that gets stuck in those worry about worry thinking about thinking cycles, you also talked about justified anticipatory anxiety where people want to stand up for it saying no, no, this is why I'm supposed to think about this continuously and obsessively. So I think that sort of goes down the road where now you talked about deconstructing some of those false metacognitive beliefs. Can we go through those? Well, the concept, first of all, that worrying about, well, to back up a little bit, worrying can often start out as what we call problem solving, trying to solve a problem. And we would say that real problem solving comes up with some sort of solution or temporary solution or action plan. And then that looping stops. Worrying is really what if thing about something that either doesn't have an answer, or you don't have enough information to get an answer, or those are two of the major things that worry about. And as a result, people often believe that worrying has great beneficial effects. Number one, it keeps them motivated. Number two, it sort of makes sure that they're not lazy and keeps them vigilant in somewhere. Something bad happens, I'll be prepared for it. When in fact, when bad things happen, most often they come from out of the blue and they blindside us in some way. The other thing is that people often think that they have no control over worrying. And if we go back to what Sally said, that there's a two-part component to worrying, very often the what if pop-ups thought we have very little control over, but we don't necessarily have to answer it if we take what we consider a metacognitive approach and say, wait a second, this is worried. It's looping thoughts in some way. I don't have to respond to it. I can say, okay, that's my worried thought and I can go on in some way. It's the attempt to answer the unanswerable when you believe there's some benefit to it in some way. Some people believe that we're, I'm sorry, Sally, you're going to say something like you're, I'm sure you have more to say about this if you want. Well, I mean, we could, we write together whatever you talk, I have things to say, but I was also thinking about the function of worry of people thinking that they're loyal to whoever, if they're worrying about someone, that that's somehow an act of loyalty or love to worry about them, which of course, all it does is make you distressed. It doesn't keep them safe or do anything for them. The other piece of it is that because the way that a worry is constructed with a what if and a something, people have a what if that's about this big, and then they have an it is cancer, what if it is cancer? And then their response is, oh my God, cancer, I've got to think about it. What can I do instead of looking at the what if, which David Carbonell calls let's pretend, it's actually your imagination. And just being able to identify that lets you see that it's the way that you're thinking and not cancer, that's the issue. I have one more comment to make about about worrying, which I think is sort of interesting because I've queried a lot of patients about worrying and patients who I consider to be pretty solid. I mean, a lot of them say, you know, believe it or not, I actually feel that worrying really increases my real life chances of something good happening or protecting myself or someone. There's a kind of almost magical protection that goes on with worrying. So the way you think about it is people don't like to worry, but they don't like not to worry. They feel too vulnerable that they don't worry in some way. So it's a complicated process. So when you're trying to work somebody through this, and you're trying to get them to the point where they start to take that more mindful approach, and they start to do that therapeutic surrender, they really have to leave these faulty beliefs behind, whether it's a sort of a gad loop or it's an anticipatory anxiety about something else or legitimate life stuff. You're dropping your beliefs on the floor or at least healthy skepticism. At least question it with that sort of skepticism in some way, because it's very hard for people to drop it. And, you know, as Sally often says, our goal with patients is to reduce their suffering. And if they can just not hold on to those beliefs quite so rigidly, and they don't worry as much, their suffering is reduced, and we're helping them in that way. So it's not all enough in each other's concept. We could probably go for another hour. I know that everybody's going to dig this, but let's get to the part that I know everybody's going to want to ask. So I'm riddled with anticipatory anxiety. What would these two people tell me to do? And by the way, just read the book, because there's a lot to go over here that we can't do in a half-hour podcast. But what's the general goal? You start to deconstruct those beliefs, start to look at them a little bit skeptically, understand what the process is, so you can start to realize what's going on. What do I do? How do we get out of this? Well, Sally is up with a four-part thing, which I think she should talk about. One, two, five, yeah. It's an acronym dance, which this is going to test my memory here. The first D is discern, or distinguish, or designate, or basically label the thoughts so that you know that you're in anticipatory anxiety land. So you've got to figure out where you are. A is accept, which means don't start pushing away at it and trying to get rid of it. N is no all kinds of no's, no engaging with it, no struggling with it, no analyzing it, no pushing on it, no trying to get rid of it. C is commit to the action. And E is embrace whatever you're feeling along the way. And let time pass, embrace the moment and allow time to pass, which is a very difficult skill, but it's sort of central to all forms of modern anxiety treatment, certainly starting with Claire Weeks and going through all the different things up to today. Let time pass right out of the Australian grandma manual, everybody. You got five out of five, though. You didn't even have to think about that. That's congratulations. You passed the driver's license test. Yeah, yeah. So I appreciate you guys taking the time here. I think that's a great, is there anything else you want to add? I mean, we don't have to end now. I'm trying not to keep you guys, I know you're busy, but you know, those are sort of the five steps, but I would urge everybody, if you want to know more, I will link this and I'll come back to wrap up at the end so you can go get the book. But there's so much really great information. And the thing that I loved about it is this is not just old school. When you guys are not newly licensed, you've been at it for a little while, clearly you have a reputation. And I love how you are right here in the 2023 in this book. It's not, this is not old school worksheet thought challenging stuff. So there's so many great concepts here, so many concepts in this book. Yeah, it's just to mention, it is the third of a series. And if you read one, two, and three, it might make a little more sense. One is the overcoming unwanted interests of thoughts, not just any interests of thoughts, but unwanted ones. The second is needing to know for sure, which is really about checking compulsions and reassurance compulsions and subtle kinds of compulsions that people might not realize are compulsions. And this is the third in the series. And they do sort of follow from each other, although they each stand alone as well. And one of the things that has them that ties them together are these three characters that we have in our minds that everyone has. Worried voice, false comfort and wise mind. And we don't introduce that trio until quite far into the overcoming anticipatory anxiety book. But the illustrations of the dialogues among these three voices are useful ways of being able to observe your own voices and then see what you're doing. So I would encourage people to think about reading the other books as well. I will link them too. I've read them all. They're all outstanding. Excellent ways to explain so many of the things you hear in this podcast again and again and again, like just another set of voices that do a great, great job of explaining. So I appreciate you guys coming on. It was really, really great. I appreciate your time so much. You're welcome here anytime. So thank you. Yeah. What I'll do is, yeah, I will come back at the end. If you guys hang out to the end, I'll come back, wrap it up. I'll give you a URL to go to the anxious truth.com slash 247 to get the books and any way that you guys want to need to send people to find you. I will do that. So thank you very much. Nice talking to you. Okay. Well, that was amazing. I have actually had Dr. Seif and Dr. Winston both on the podcast before individually having them together today was really kind of a special thing for me. I will admit I was doing a little bit of the fangirl thing for a little while there. I'm not above that, by the way. Don't judge me. Anyway, there was a ton of great information in this podcast episode that I think would be helpful because like was mentioned in the interview, anticipatory anxiety is a common theme not only with all human beings because all human beings get nervous about scary and challenging things, but especially across all variants of different anxiety and mood disorders. I think Dr. Seif pointed that out. So hopefully there was a ton here that you can use. If you would like to know more about that and I'm not a fan of hawking people's books here, well, maybe my own, I guess, but this is the book that we talked about. It's called Overcoming Anticipatory Anxiety. I did get to read it. They were generous enough to send me a copy. It is a great book. I would recommend it along with the other books that they've written and Dr. Winston talked about in the in the podcast episode. So if you go right down here to the anxioustruth.com slash 247, that's the full show notes for this episode. I will include links to this book and their other books. And I think they just put out a great blog article on psychology today. I'll link over to their psychology today blog. They are a great, great resource to take advantage of everything they have to offer, and they are welcome on this podcast anytime they want to be. So that is it. That is episode number 247 of the anxious truth on anticipatory anxiety in the books. You know that it's over because I have to hit the button and turn up the music that is afterglow written by my friend, Ben Drake, who wrote the song at least in part inspired by this particular podcast. And he has let me use it for the past couple of years. I'm grateful for that. Find more about Ben and his music on his website at Ben Drake music.com. And if you are listening to this podcast on Apple podcast or Spotify or some platform that lets you rate or review the podcast, leave a five star rating if you dig it and maybe take a minute and write a review because that helps other people find the podcast and then more people get the information and the help that they need, which is kind of why I started doing this in 2014 to begin with. Of course, if you're watching on YouTube, I'm going to hit you to hit ask you to hit the subscribe button like the video, leave a comment at least twice a week. I circle back around and go through my YouTube comments. It's always a great discussion there. Thank you guys for your support on YouTube. And that is it. We are done. Share this with everybody that you think might be helpful. I'm happy to support as many of you as I possibly can with this type of information. I will be back again next week to do another podcast episode and another video. I don't know what I'm going to talk about next week, but I will be here. And remember, as always, this is the way


The Benwick State Government is to map out a policy to promote teaching and learning of science and technology in schools across the state. Governor I. Saint-Oliéa gave the indication of the official opening of a science and technology school in Maccordie, the Benwick State Capital. The Benwick State Governor, who was represented by his principal private secretary, Dr Immanuel Cengiz, said the present challenges in the country deserve creativity and technical ingenuity from citizens to overcome them. Hello, hope you enjoyed the news. Please do subscribe to our YouTube channel and don't forget to hit the notification button so you get notified about fresh news updates.