How's that? Problems to hear you, so. Maybe you got it. You guys hear me? Yes. Cool. OK, OM report. This is on 5.17. We do a big order 5 allocation, and it fails. And we get this. And I don't have enough information to debug this. I mean, maybe someone else can parse this better than I can. But this isn't terribly useful to me. One interesting thing of this to me is that we're doing an order 5 allocation from the 9p vertifest code and what looks like, usually it looks like it's from the reader code. I'm not seeing that here. And there's not any big directories in my test setup. So why the heck is it doing an order 5 allocation? What this tells me is that we've got places in the kernel where we're using an excessive amount of memory. And no one knows because there's no good way to see who's allocating what today. Just profiling memory usage is kind of a nightmare in the kernel. It's a little bit better in user space where you've got like TC maloc. But we don't even have anything like that. The page owner stuff is not easy to use. And it's way too expensive to enable it most of the time. That's a whole other thing that I'd like to see improved. And maybe we'll talk about that later. But for right now, what can we do with the OOM report? I made a start on this. Here's an example of an OOM report from my shrinker to text branch. So previously, in the OOM report path, we'd only sometimes get information on slabs. And when we would, we'd get all of them, which would be like two or three pages. I don't need most of that. So I changed it to just dump the top 10 and then sort it ordered. Of course, we still need an actual name for that. I think that might be a bug in my code, though. And look at this. Now we've got shrinkers. Now, hopefully because I'm in the OOM room, people are aware here that shrinkers are actually kind of important for debugging OOMs because they're needed for member reclaim. Yet until now, we haven't had any good way of seeing like shrinker information, not at runtime or in the OOM report. Thanks to Roman, we're gonna be getting this at runtime by debugFS. And my hope is that via the pretty printer work that I'm doing, debugFS and this report will be showing exactly the same information on each shrinker. And we'll get a callback function so that instead of just printing the very basic information that VM scan has, every shrinker code can define that callback to print out its own internal information that's relevant for what objects can be reclaimed.  We don't have any way to see that today. But if you look at, I didn't get you a good example, I defined a text method for the BcacheFS one that does show how many objects are dirty. But unfortunately, I can't show that to you. And this is only a start. I don't intend to do all this work myself, but I'm noticing that this code hasn't changed since Johannes wrote it, but back in 2006, is when it looked like you added the show mem report. So no one's touching this stuff. And I think that's the problem that needs to be fixed is we need some better organization and some better tools so that we can just have better log messages and error messages and reporting. That's the end goal of the printer stuff that I was talking about in my BcacheFS talk yesterday. Should I, Matthew, should we talk about our crazy pretty printer? Yeah, sure. Yeah. So right now, let's pull up a drag this one. Yes, print buff is going in a new direction. So I was looking through vsnprintf.c And it turns out we've got lots of pretty printers in there that I didn't even know existed because they're all used via this crazy percent sign piece in tax that's not discoverable. You can't see scope to see where the code you're calling is. And all these pretty printers are in this dumping ground that no one looks at except when they go to add something new. Pretty printers should be defined with the code that they're printing, not off in this dumping ground. So that's where you would look when you wanna see a pretty printer, you go, there's one place to look to see what pretty printers are there. It's not as fine. Well, that's one way of looking at it. Matthew's idea was that, let's see if I have it here. Here's the test code. So we're gonna have percent sign left parentheses, which is going to represent a function call. Then you'll pass the pretty printer, the function, the name of that function to printf along with subsequently arguments to the pretty printer. So we have printftest function. This is using the old calling convention, which then does some outputting. And now instead of specifying like percent sign, capital B, which I think represents B dev name, you'll just be able to just say call B dev name and then pass it the argument to B dev name. So we'll be able to have a million pretty printers and define them wherever you want. My experience in Bcache FS has been that getting into this habit of writing a lot of pretty printers, good begets good. Your log messages get infinitely better. It becomes a lot easier to write a new pretty printer when you've got pretty printers for all your little base types. I think life is gonna get a lot easier and our log messages are gonna get better. And all that stuff in vsnprintf.c, we can move it to like where those types are defined. We'll be able to find that code in C-scope. In the meantime, where was it? What else can you do with the showmem report? Well, we could rate limit it. Right now, sometimes I get, it's spewed like 20 times in the space of a second. I'm not sure that that's terribly useful. Showmem is that report when we hit knowem, that's seen by a lot of people, including end users, that wanna understand why their system ran out of memory. And I don't think it's terribly useful to them either. So maybe we could introduce some better organization. Maybe at a top level, we could divide it up into kernel memory and user memory. Sometimes you run out of memory just because one user task has gone out to lunch. And if we dump the top five or 10 tasks and sort that by memory usage, I bet a lot of end users would find that useful. Page allocator fragmentation, that could be useful. I was getting into some talks with Dave Chenner and I think there's a bunch more stuff with shrinkers that we could add with shrinkers, we can be reported. This is working. So actually we used it, if you wanna look back in the kit log, we used to print the top X tasks and it was removed for some reason that I don't remember. But you can. Huh. Yeah, top tasks are not exactly three. So again, what? Yeah, so if you want to dump all the tasks or at least some of them, that's not really an easy thing to do because you need to do some task lists, look a looking and it can get pretty expensive, especially if you have hundreds of thousands tasks running which can be the case very easily. So that's one thing. Another thing that I wanted to mention slightly earlier that. If we break limit how often we're generating that report, that will help somewhat. Maybe yes. I can just tell that we do that on the OEM killer report and that's really expensive. And it can dump your log buffer to the point that essentially not even the whole OEM report just gets there. Partial information can be useful but usually not all that much because if you are not having a complete picture, then you can draw a completely wrong conclusions from what you are seeing because it might be not just the top consumers are the problem but the sheer number of them, at least from my experience. So and also one thing that I wanted to mention earlier is that what should be in the OEM report really depends on the out of memory situation that you are facing because if you are failing on GFP no weight allocation, that's a completely different thing and shrinkers are likely not the primary information that you are looking for or any reclaimed statistics. If you are failing on the high order allocation that shrinkers are probably not the most important thing you should be seeing because it's usually compaction that is failing and knowing why the compaction is failing is very likely what you are infested in and yeah. That depends on fragmentation which we like it could be compaction or we could just not have memory. Yeah. We don't really print information on fragmentation right now so we add that that'll get us in the right direction. Yeah, we have been discussing that on the mailing list already but what I was trying to point you out to is that the allocation failure context matters and doing unconditional stuff there is probably not going to be very helpful in 99% of situations except for very, very limited ones but what we currently have in Shogman is mostly compromise of what might be useful and it usually is. There are cases when it's not. I'm not sure whether that's really something that will help in general. Well, anything is going to be a compromise but I think we can probably do better than what we're doing now. I'm looking at just below your shrinkers it says add tracking to see what or how many slab objects are allocated versus how many are on. I'm thinking do we have, do we already have like a watchdog timer? Basically once we see that a certain, basically a certain level where a member is starting to get constrained and maybe we don't have much that we can reclaim and we could say oh, you know. There's nothing that looks like a watchdog in a shrinker code or in VM scan. That might be a good thing to add. Yeah, so that way once we see that we're getting to a point where, hey, we're not reclaiming much and we're running out of memory and we're going to a position where we can have an OEM and then maybe trigger off tracing or something, say okay what is starting to think where's the cause of the OEM? So if we could see what's happening before, because usually right now it's like post mortem. We hit OEM, or OEM, sorry, and it's afraid I'm slipped there, but we hit the OEM and then we try to figure out what brought us to this point and it's almost impossible to do it but we had like a level saying oh, we should start taking a look at what's happening, what's being allocated, who's the culprit? That might be more useful. Yeah, that would be awesome, except for in most cases that build-up might be really slow, so it's mostly the boiling-frog kind of problem that you are just doing fine until that very last drop, which just gets you over the board and that's usually the victim rather than the culprit of the whole build-up that has happened until that moment. Another point I want to make is that debugging OEM sucks even the simple easy case. It sucks when I'm just running XFS test in a single virtual machine in my optimized developer setup. If I can't debug OEMs there, then we've got bugs that just aren't getting fixed and those bugs are also showing up in these big complicated scenarios like you're talking about. Let's make sure that we can at least debug in the easy scenarios and then there will still be extra bugs that show up in those harder, bigger, more complicated scenarios, but let's get the easy stuff first. Yeah, I would love to see the report to be more useful.  For example, what I usually do is I just check the proportion of the LRU versus SLAP memory and if that proportion is like, I can see 90% of the memory is just consumed by the user space, then it's very likely to be a problem of the user space. Having that called out explicitly would be really nice. I think that would be an improvement for somebody who just doesn't have that processing hardware into the keyboard already. Maybe some of the stuff that you're calculating in your post-processing, maybe that could just be in the show memory port. Yeah, yeah. Maybe yes. I think we can argue would be those thresholds when you start reporting here and there. That's usually much easier to be done from the user space when you see the whole thing and just put AWK or whatever you use for processing a lot of numbers, but I would like to also default to our show memory port being more uniform and less conditional. And just like there was no reason before to be dumping all the SLAPs with two pages of output. If we just do a bunch of useful summaries instead of dumping all of some things, I think that'll be more useful. The show memory port. There's always the corner case where you just, I wish I had this. Yeah. But I think what could be useful is if at least follows what is most pertinent and goes down to. Like another thing in the same line that Michael said is, we list total memory, we list free memory, and then we list a bunch of known consumers, but some consumers aren't known. And you have to add up everything that's known to figure out, oh, there's a large gap. Somebody's doing page allocations and he's not reporting it. So if we can start with the summaries and then here you might also be interested in this, right? I think that could go a long way. If we rate limited, I think it's not a big deal to have a more verbose dump. But, and for Ooms it's fine because they're not that frequent, but we have machines that do like page allocation failures, because they're allocations that don't qualify for Oom either because they're higher order or they're no weight or something like that. And then you have machines that are just in a loop failing allocations and it's just dumping the same thing over and over. It is kind of useless. Yeah, so for the rate limiting, that's really nice thing in theory, except it doesn't work because rate limiting can work only when the, let's say that critical section that you are rate limiting is really negligible in how long it takes. And print cake can be pretty slow if you are running to very slow serial consoles or whatnot. And we have actually seen Oom reports to be essentially putting the machine to grind just by dumping that information because it just takes ages and rate limiting cannot really help you because the whole thing takes much longer than the time you are rate limiting to. So if we want to ever do something about that then we really have to come up with a way to... This will have to be some custom rate limiting, not the like print cake rate limited thing. That won't work for this. Yeah, it doesn't. So yeah, that would be something that would need to be done as well. So what I'm trying to say that just dumping more information with the current implementation is not all that easy. There is quite a lot of work to be done. And also too much information can be tricky on its own because then you don't know where to look. So I completely agree that having some high levels initially to just tell you that 80% of your memory is not accounted. So you probably should look at networking subsystem because that's the usual suspect or something else but you will not do anything or you will have hard time to find out much more because it's not accounted. So for that I don't think this exists now. As part of like the folio stuff, Matthew's been figuring out what the actual type hierarchy is of our different page allocations. We should probably be tracking memory usage by the actual type hierarchy. And I'd love to be printing that out. I was just wondering how somebody can allocate memory and we don't know that they allocated memory. Yeah. Well there's just no, it's like you call or lock pages and it doesn't.  If you don't do that, we just don't know. So should we not allow that? There's a lot of call sites that you would have to update. Let me talk about my plan for solving that problem now. So right now we don't have any way of tracking memory usage by call site that's remotely efficient enough to be enabled at runtime of production and it is possible to do this. There's a trick that the dynamic debug code uses. I think everyone should know about. It replaces your PR debug calls with a macro that defines a static struct that it puts in a special elf section and then when the kernel starts up and it's in it code or when you load a module, it walks that elf section treating it as an array and adds every single PR debug call to debug FS. So now you can grip through debug FS and turn on and off individual PR debug calls at runtime. Super cool. Imagine. Don't we have tracing or why don't we use tracing for that? I mean, we do have trace hooks into page allocator. And that's the usual way how we, at least we, when we have customer problems that are reproducible, we just enable tracing. If that's a... I want something that's always on and I can't enable tracing for every single memory allocation all the time. I want to just be able to look and debug FS and see file and line number. This has this call allocation call site as X number of megabytes allocated and pipe it through sort and we can do this. Always enabled on every server. It's completely, you just have to flip them back. Yeah, yeah, but you can't have those trace points for memory allocations enabled all the time. And then user space then has to be the one to match up the allocation and free trace events. And that's expensive in terms of memory usage and user space. There's ways to put in profiling or something attached to that would be pretty true. You want to match up locations without locations of freeze. Everyone's is tracing and tracing is great but it's not the solution to every problem. Oh, one thing you could do for that to get some benefit out of it would be to use BPF and track a map by call site. Yeah, and that uses tracing. It does. It does. So one thing with doing this, especially once you start involving user space is that user space will trigger more allocations. And so you have to be careful that while you're tracing and recording what's going on you don't recurse into allocations. So we try doing this with BPF but it gets hairy really quickly because you have process context freeing memory and it's being interrupted by an interrupt that also frees memory. And then it's like who gets access to the data structure to the BPF map. And we start losing events. So yeah, we've tried to have this like what's the outstanding memory allocations to have it just a BPF map and that just quickly fell apart. So wait, what's the mapping? You're trying to match like just the allocation to the free and by like the address? Yeah. So I've used synthetic events. So synthetic event is a way of creating, attaching two trace points and mapping it by a field that's common among the two of them to create a third event. And then you could make a histogram or whatever you want off of it. And this works through interrupt context or whatever. It doesn't, it does everything pre-allocated before you do it. And obviously it has a pool and it runs out, it runs out, but. But we'd want to look for not. What do you mean? Well, because he's tracing allocate and free, we'd want the allocated. This means user space has to remember all the trace points for every allocation that has not yet been freed. Right. That's too much memory overhead. I want something that can be on all the time. So that it's actually there and already trace, already collecting information when I run into a problem or something that I want to look at. For driver like allocations as such a tool that's always on would be very useful also because there are many drivers that we are working with at third parties. We don't have sometimes sources for them. At least two pin points that who is doing that would be very useful. Even though we have DevM API, but not many drivers use it. So such a, well, I don't want to point fingers, but yeah, a lot of, actually not just, I mean, yeah. That's another point I wanted to make about adding or changing home reports is, I know at Google at least, we do have scripts which parse those and kind of extract what's abnormal. So when we are changing, we need to be very careful not to break those. Or if we are breaking, well, at least they better be backward compatible so that existing scripts don't break. Adding is fine. I mean, we don't give any guarantees that additional information is not going to break those, but it would be great if we can figure out the way not to kind of affect those. I don't really care about breaking Google internal scripts. I'm sorry, but these are. I'm guessing not only Google does that, right? I know, but I've never been aware that our print K messages have been part of the user space ABI contract. This stuff, the. No, it's not. Consumed by humans, first and foremost, it should be useful to humans. And if it's not useful to humans because some people don't want to update their scripts, that's a problem. So I missed how the DevDebug approach fixes your problem. Yeah, I got interrupted. Once we have this trick of a macro that defines a static struct in a special elf section, we can use that to wrap all our Kmoloc, alloc pages, et cetera calls, and then pass the address that struct into Kmoloc or whatever. And then we can remember for each allocation, the call site that it was allocated from so that free can decrement the right counter. So all we need is, and like this could be plumbed through like Slub and the page allocator. And they already have provisions for tracking information per allocation for like the page owner thing. So we just need to repurpose that stuff and getting some help from the event people that are familiar with that code would be great. The page owner stuff has been really useful if the problem's reproducible just because it's too heavy to run in production. But I think the reason why it's so expensive is just it needs a lot of memory to store the full stack traces and just gathering the stack traces on every single allocation. But it's usually a lot more than you need. Yeah, exactly. So this goes back to the drivers, right? If you have a general direction where to look, right? Even if it's just like a file in a line, or if you know the module where it's even coming from. I think the perfect would be the enemy of good there. Yeah, I think having a rough direction which to look at would be really useful already. My main goal is cheap enough to be enabled by default so that more people are looking at this stuff because like I showed you from the 9p allocation failure, if we're doing stuff that stupid, that means we're just not looking at our memory allocations. Okay, so yeah, we need to move on to the next topic, but I think you can't.


My name is Mahirubalai, I am assistant engineer in WIT, Swalapur. We are talking about a corrosion control in the metal pipes today. So what are the learning outcomes? Students will be able to understand various methods of corrosion control in the metal pipes. So let's see the different methods for corrosion control. There are totally four types of corrosion control methods. The first one is cathodic protection, where we convert the metal pipe into the cathode. Second one is protective cold coatings and linings. We protect the interior pipe perimeter by giving out coating or lining into it. Third one is selecting proper pipe material. It means if you don't want to put a lot of money for coating and linings, we can change the material, okay? We can put some initial cost to it and we can change the pipe material in such a way that the pipe material will not rust very much at a faster rate. The last one, last one is the quality of water. How we can treat the water or how we can make the water so that the corrosion rate can decrease, okay? So let's see cathodic protection first, right? Here this is our metal pipe through which the water is continuously flowing. Here you can see this metal pipe outer is connected to a metal. Here I had taken magnesium. You can take a different metal, but you have to understand which material we have to take. We have to take the material in such a way that higher electrochemical series material. What does it mean? It means that it can give out electrons faster than this metal pipe, okay? Then what will happen? When we connect these both metals, what will happen? As it is giving out electrons at a faster rate, it will try to throw out electron towards this metal pipe. As you had seen in the corrosion process, this metal pipe is behaving as anode. Now it is receiving cathode at outer parameter, okay? What does it mean? It is shifted towards cathode. What will happen after that, okay? At that time, the inner parameter or the electron which is flowing through the metal in the corrosion process, it will take an out, okay? And it will be reacting with the soil which is present outside the pipe. How it is going to happen? What is its chemistry on which we can say that, yes, it is going under the cathodic protection? Before that, you have to understand what is happening with this metal. Here in the MG, the MG2 plus is dissociated and the electron is taken out from this wire and this MG2 plus is given out in the soil, okay? And all the soil materials, all the soil anions, what I can say, which is negative charge, it is attracted towards the metal and it is reacting with the MG2 plus, okay? Automatically, it is becoming stable or its nearby area is becoming stable. So what I can say? I can say the MG is dissociated into MG2 plus and two electron minus, okay? At this side, what is happening at this side? At this side, whatever the oxygen which is present, which is present in the underground soil, that is our oxygen, okay? And the water which is present outside in the underground soil. I'm not talking about the inside water flow rate. I'm talking about the water which is present outside which in the underground soil. It will try to capture the electron which is coming from this wire and it will form four OH minus outside the pipe on the perimeter. So what will happen to that? This OH minus will try to form the negative charge on the pipe. It means it will try to shift all the anodic sides to cathodic sides. So what we can say? It will try to decrease the corrosion process. I'm not saying it is gonna stop the corrosion process. I'm saying that as relatively cathodic sides are too much and anodic sides are very much lesser and electron is not shifting towards in interior cathodic side, but it is shifting towards outward cathodic side. So automatically inside corrosion is going to stop. There are chances that this outer perimeter can get corrode, but the chances are very much less and it doesn't involve and it will not get in contact with the interior pipe. So the design flow will not change. The pressure head will not create and automatically we will get the effective water flow into it and water which we had designed and it's quality will not change too much, okay? So what is the next one? Next one is protective coating and lining. So there are different type of coatings and linings which are present in the market. Let's see the first one. Basically in the paints we use mostly red lead paints and zinc pigment, okay? These zinc pigments and red lead pigments are basically lower electroseries metals. So they are not gonna rest very much faster. Second one is galvanization. In the galvanization basically we do for very small diameter pipes, okay? How we can do that? We put a pipe into a molten zinc, okay? So that all the surface area will be very much precisely get covered with the zinc belt, okay? It is mostly expensive. So we don't go for such kind of a galvanization, okay? The third one is the bituminous compound coatings in which we use bituminous for the coating of pipes, okay? So it is mostly done for conveying system or what we can say large pipes, okay? For the large pipes. If you see in this diagram it is the outer parameter is coated with the bituminous. And the fourth one is cement linings. We use cement for the coating of interior pipes in which we mostly use one rest or two cement motor, okay? It is also mostly done for conveying system pipes. If you see in this diagram you can understand the interior pipe is coated with the cement linings, okay? The third one is metal pipe. If you don't want to go for the coatings or linings we can change the pipe material, okay? So there are mostly focus on homogeneity of pipe material because we can't use a lot of LOIs which are not homogeneous in nature. So we always go for the homogeneity of pipe material in which there are two types, okay? It is less resistant to corrosion and more resistant to corrosion. In the less resistant we typically go for iron which is in the form of steel, okay? It is mostly used in the distribution system in the cities, okay? In the more resistant we typically go for iron or steel with chromium, copper or nickel. Copper or nickel we can preferably choose with respect to our cost. We mostly use copper for the alloy, okay? So evader is also one example we typically use in the conveying system. Evader is the alloy of copper and silicon. It is lesser expensive. We can mostly go for the evader in the conveying system. Here is the example of steel, alloy of steel and copper. You can see it is not a rust, okay? It is its color and here it is a stainless steel pipe. It is mostly a low iron steel alloy, fine? So it is mostly used in the distribution system and the alloy of steel and copper is mostly used in the conveying system. And the fourth one is quality of water. As the water is containing higher carbon dioxide or the water is too much alkaline or the water is too much higher dissolved oxygen. At that time what will happen? The corrosion process requires oxygen, okay? The corrosion process requires a lot of water with having a capacity to take up a lot of metal ions. At that time the corrosion rate will go on faster. So we have to change the quality of water so that the corrosion process can decrease in their rate. So how we can do that? We can increase the pH. What will happen? It will try to increase the alkalinity. Here you have to understand. We are using lime or copper or powdered chalk. It means we are using CAO or CAOH twice. Okay, what will happen at that time? We are increasing only OH minus, okay? We are not increasing carbonates and bicarbonates. The raising pH means only increasing OH minus ions. It will not gonna affect the corrosion process. It will decrease the rate of corrosion, okay? We can also do it by reducing the dissolved oxygen content, okay? By idiom, sodium, exam at a phosphate. It is having a proper dose of 0.5 ppm to 0.6 ppm. We can decrease the oxygen content of water. What will happen after that? It will try to decrease the rate of corrosion, okay? And the third one is reducing the dissolved carbon dioxide. By decreasing the dissolved carbon dioxide, it is basically the calcium carbonate can be controlled. It means when we decrease the carbon dioxide, automatically the ferrous bicarbonate will not form. After that, ferric hydroxide will not form. So by decreasing the dissolved carbon dioxide, we can stop the corrosion process at a very rapid rate, okay? It is also done by adding sodium metaphosphate. So let's see some review questions. The first one is corrosion of steel is controlled by addition of lime, true or false. Second one is corrosion control is cheap in, selection of pipe material, changing quality of water, cathodic protection, protective coating. Third one is protection of stainless steel from the corrosion required, cathodic protection, changing of quality of water, protective coating, or none of the above. So these are the answers for that. The corrosion is mostly controlled by addition of lime. Yes, it is always true. Corrosion control is cheap in only protective coating, okay? In the protection of stainless steel from corrosion required, none of the above, okay? Because stainless steel is basically alloy. And if you are changing the above three processes, we can't do that, okay? So we must go for a proper higher grade stainless steel. These are the references I have studied for making this PPPT. Thank you.


Okay Hide if you feel you should wow wired has a story about how LAX is pulling off its terminal reshuffle Delta and 20 other airlines are swapping spots what? Yeah, I mean they already did a swap with the terminal six Hmm during Delta is leaving five and six for two and three. Oh Two and three need a rehaul overhaul LAX is spending four hundred fifty to transform itself Spend billions to renovate terminals to yeah Gross I have to fly tomorrow United has to fly tonight. I Did not Shane asked if I saw the story about the luxury terminal opening tomorrow at LAX I did not know except for famous people probably never be in it either, so Fancy fancy All right Nothing else breaking. Well, why call quantum computers might not break cryptography. So that's positive these days Unless you're trying to unlock from one a cry and you're hoping to use a Quantum computer. I'm ready when you're ready All right Shall we?  Yes, da Hadesho. All right. Here we go Daily Tech news show is powered by you if you want to find out more head to Daily Tech news show dot com Slash support and become a producer of the show This is the Daily Tech news for Monday, May 15th 2017. I'm Tom Merritt Veronica Belmont alongside Did you get ransomed? Did you have any ransomware effects this weekend? No, I don't think so. I had other effects, but I don't think they were related to that not related to want to cry Did you want to cry for other reasons? I'm sorry to hear that Oh good.  Let's start with a few tech things you should know about Lift and Waymo announced an agreement to work on autonomous vehicle pilot projects and product development That's lift not uber and waymo lift is also partnering with General Motors The lines are being drawn Tom. Yeah, they are Google announced it is partnering with Audi and Volvo to ship cars with a new version of Android embedded that can turn apps like maps and Spotify Use Google's voice assistant and control car functions like temperature. No Android phone necessary This is what I want. Sorry. I meant to say run apps It says ton apps might turn that into tune apps or turn apps Well, you can tune your car radio to to the right as long as the apps can't turn your car Not yet. Not yet. It's not a cell-driving car No, I like this idea of just being able to have the apps on the car You know and sync with it the way Android works. It'll sync all my apps over. I assume if I log in So that's kind of cool Fraunhofer Institute is a patent holder for mp3 encoders or at least it was Fraunhofer announced it will end its licensing program for the audio format now a lot of people are taking this to mean mp3 is dead mp3 is not dead Fraunhofer's mp3 related patents have expired So it actually makes it easier to use mp3 for things now For instance red hats gonna start shipping it as part of its standard distribution It won't have to worry about paying a license fee I wonder if programs like audacity will be able to support it natively instead of needing Yeah, like third-party things to hook into it. I hope so. That would be great The Wall Street Journal reports at Nintendo will release a legend of Zelda game for mobile sometime after animal crossing for mobile Which sources say will come out before the end of the year. So all of this still a little nebulous But we are we are getting more mobile games. We already knew that but it sounds like animal crossing followed by zella So that's kind of cool. I said years ago that Nintendo should be a mobile developer only Well, they still disagree with you, but they're getting closer getting closer. I can feel it. It's gonna happen All right, let's get to the other top stories over the weekend security researcher malware tech was analyzing the want to cry ransomware You may have heard this story, but it's worth hearing again. He discovered in The malware a call to an unregistered domain name and it's not like a domain name like ransom me calm It's some long random string. So he registered it This is a standard practice when when analyzing malware you you register any domain names to track the malware as it's spread You can get IP addresses track regions Identify victims and even reverse engineer the malware when he activated the domain it had the unexpected effect of shutting down the ransomware and The best guess is that in certain sandbox environments all domain queries will return an IP address Belonging to the sandbox that way you keep it from reaching out to the actual network and malware tech speculates the unregistered domain Was meant to signal that the malware was in a sandbox because it's an unregistered domain show It's so it shouldn't return an IP address and if it did then Want to cry would shut itself down to prevent it from being analyzed But instead in this case it prevented it from propagating of course new versions of the ransomware have since been released Without this particular weakness although one of them did have a different domain name that another researcher Registered and got that one to shut down Certainly, it slowed the spread and brought bought some companies some time You can read malware tech's own account and all the details if you're interested at malware tech comm but a fascinating story Oh, it was it was absolutely astonishing. His blog post is certainly well worth the read It's a little long But I think it clears up a lot of the confusion about how this happened and what I also found fascinating was that Originally when he did register the domain He and another researcher became like were under the impression that they had actually encrypted all of the data Want to cry had already captured So they're like shoot now all this data is encrypted and we don't know how to unlock it But it turned out that it didn't do that. It was just some kind of signifier That's probably what would have happened had it been working properly But at the end of the day they did save a good amount of time and effort for a lot of companies think it was like 150,000 like machines had been hit at that point more than more. Yeah, in fact Well, we'll catch you up on all the things that have happened since we talked about it on Friday Microsoft issued security patches for out-of-service versions of windows remember it had already been patched for for currently supported versions of windows and Machines were getting hit because they hadn't properly kept up on the patches But windows XP which made up I think four percent four to five percent of the National Health Service Machines out there. So a small amount but still enough to cause a problem Windows XP Windows 8 Windows Server 2003 they they aren't supported anymore by Microsoft But Microsoft went ahead and issued security patches. The spread seems to have slowed significantly Twitter account called actual ransom has been tracking the Bitcoin wallets associated with the ransomware Was in the scene today. Yeah. Yeah, I saw that's where I got that from they actually racked up so far less than 60,000 in payments at least at last total count $60,000 in payments is not a lot a lot of these these less prominent ransomware will rack up millions of dollars So this one is not successful on the money side Microsoft president and chief legal officer Brad Smith wrote in a blog post that governments have to consider the damage to civilians that comes from hoarding Vulnerabilities and the use of these exploits these touched off that controversy again And as you said more than 200,000 machines affected more than a hundred fifty companies And the financial times you even out there reporting that security researchers have found another NSA tool called a steam audit is Available for sale in certain dark net locations a steam audit also exploits network communications the way that Eternal blue did that's the one that turned into want to cry So they're they're trying to weaponize another one of these NSA tools out there It's kind of infuriating isn't it? Yeah, and it really does show the importance of keeping up on patches It shows that if your IT department delays that it is Going to cause problems it may not cause problems every day But eventually it that's why a lot of these problems were caused is that they were using out of date They hadn't got around it, you know upgrading software national health service in the UK even paid for extended service for Windows XP But they just didn't get all the machines updated in time At the end of the service agreement So it's there's a really good article unfortunate about the problem of procrastination So when the patch Tuesday comes and you're like, oh right I need to do that tomorrow It makes perfect sense because the likelihood of an exploit happening between Tuesday and Wednesday is very low It's a rational decision and then it's a rational decision to go Wednesday to Thursday And then it's a rational decision to go Thursday Friday But eventually the accumulation is no longer rational and you end up in these situations and then your data is encrypted. Sorry. Yeah so Stay updated. Yeah, stay updated. It's expensive, but it's like insurance. It's worth it in the in the long run KGI securities analyst Min-Chi Ko believes Apple may introduce a new 10.5 inch iPad with slim bezels at its WWDC developer conference on June 5th Well has also reported that a serious speaker could be in the works Apple said it will talk about iOS and Mac OS And will likely touch on watch OS and TV OS as well Apple may discuss improvements to Apple music as well as original video content coming to the service So I like this idea of a 10 and a half inch iPad that is exactly the same size as the current 9.7 inch iPad Because the bezels are slim enough if I get a bigger screen in the same size. It still fits in my prompter It still fits in all my cases right any cases you have for it fits just fine Yeah, that would be nice. I mean, I'm still not an iPad user, but I see the appeal Yeah, what about a series speaker like if they said this is our new home kit Thing we're going you're gonna be able to run your entire home off of this series speaker hub No Google home I'm more echo with a touch of Google home You've got a splash of Google home That's a Google home up in there. Yeah Judge William I'll sub granted Waymo's request for a preliminary injunction I'll sub ruled that former Google employee Anthony Levandowski may not work on any projects at Uber that involve LiDAR Though Uber may continue its development of the technology. This actually doesn't change anything Uber gets to keep developing its LiDAR Levandowski had already been voluntarily removed from LiDAR projects by Uber Judge also urged Uber to quote do whatever it can to ensure that its employees return the 14,000 plus pilfered files to the rightful owner a lot of weird things about that. How do you return copied files? But also if they return them then that's it a mission of guilt and Levandowski has pled the fifth So it puts Uber in the position Possibly of having to fire Levandowski because if he protects his Fifth Amendment rights He won't be able to comply with Uber's request to return the files Stinks. Yeah Also also called Waymo's claim of patent infringement meritless He said you you're you're trying you're trying to claim that you own all of light emitting devices He's like it's just too broad and in addition to this ongoing civil case Don't forget Waymo filed an arbitration proceeding against Levandowski himself and judge also referred the case to the U.S. Attorney for a possible criminal investigation. So this is still just getting started. I'm gonna switch my microphone. So tell me Oh, no, you sound better. You just need to turn up your volume. But yes, how's that? That's much better Yeah, just turn up the game to do this is how the sausage gets made everybody Had a little in in in stream change Yeah, that's I mean this is pretty intense and I think I think you're right I think it's going to be very difficult for them to comply without him having to either just talk or continue to protect his rights But I you know, I have heard that it's gonna be difficult for them to kind of not difficult to move forward But he is a major component. I mean, obviously a huge component of that team And it's gonna be you know, that's tough to lose a key member Especially even though he has already kind of recused himself from the team in a way To to be forced not to work with it will be will be tough. Well, he was running the department He's no longer running the department. He's running everything in the department But Lidar and reporting to the guy who's running Lidar So it's already the janky situation. You got to think that uber at this point would like to just get rid of the guy But then he's the auto co-founder and he's in there because he has knowledge And they don't want to lose that knowledge and his ability to help in other areas. It is a mess And if he's in California, there's no non-compete. So technically I don't know what the kind of situation would be if he could go to a competitor Immediately or if you'd have to cool his heels for a little while and he's the kind of guy that Mike did 14,000 files with him You just don't know No, I don't know Yeah crazy situation at this point uber's option is to finish litigating this case and hope that they get a Decision that says no wrongdoing that that is really the the only thing that they can hope for the best possible outcome Yeah Netflix has implemented Google's widevine DRM scheme which means the Netflix app from the Google Play Store No longer will work on rooted Android phones Android police has verified that Netflix still runs properly if you manage to sideload the APK a lot of people getting upset at Netflix for this It could be done on purpose by Netflix to to subvert Routed phones my guess is it's not my guess is they are using The Android pay service to handle the widevine DRM that Google does and a side effect of that That they probably didn't plan for but also don't care about is that rooted phones won't play Netflix It'd be interesting to see if Netflix came up with some other option for people to do rooted phones There's nothing illegal about rooting your phone. Sometimes people do it just to you know Do something with the bootloader and that itself is going to cause problems with this But if you're technically savvy enough to root your phone, you're probably technically savvy enough to sideload the APK Which does work apparently yeah So it's annoying is really the upshot of this XDA developers comm reports on a new feature in Android Oh the forthcoming version of Android that allows applications to handle authentication by text So currently apps can ask for permission to read your texts If you're like, I don't want to have to type in the numbers myself You can say certain apps will say hey just let me read your text and I'll we'll just read the SMS when it comes in However, that means you're giving them access to all of your text messages Which is not a good idea. You shouldn't give any app unlimited permissions that it doesn't need So the new API and Android O allows apps to create a specific one-time 11 character long token when Android sees this token in an SMS It routes the token to the app so the app never has to see any of your text messages You don't have to see the verification code text message. It's handled by Android And you don't have it cluttering up your inbox So you get you get that factor of authentication, which we know we've talked about that there's problems with using SMS as verification but In in lower risk cases, this is a nice little Elegant way to handle this without giving an app too many permissions Do you think that this would suffer from the same issues that that you know two-factor via SMS suffers from? Yeah, I mean it would make it a little more difficult because if someone's trying to Impersonate you and intercept your text messages, which we know is possible then They would they wouldn't be able to use this to log in on the web, right? Because Android is just going to take that token and put it in the app You have to install the app And and do it that way not that they couldn't but it's just it's another barrier It's another a lot of things that they have to do they have to actually take advantage of the exploit They have to pay the thousand dollars. They have to get on the network all of that a better solution would be to have the mobile carriers Like reform on text messaging work so it can't be so easily spoofed. Yeah, that freaks me out But yeah, this is this is pretty nice because that's that factor that token authentication works Works seamlessly in Android off so it's a nice little feature coming and Google IO coming later this week I'm sure we'll hear more about this kind of thing. Hey folks If you want to get all the tech headlines each day in about five minutes There's an app out there called anchor anchor dot FM Where you can listen to the daily tech headlines and even skip through stories that you're either not interested in or already heard About you have control over the headlines go check it out look up anchor in your app store install it and listen to it There's tons of good folks on there any gauss Does some stuff on there all kinds of people so check out daily tech headlines there? Of course, you can also get it on the Amazon echo as a flash briefing and as a podcast at dailytech headlines comm All right real quick as someone caught my eye in the bot zine today as well Was the out of Microsoft build last week Veronica turns out bots can join video calls on Skype now Yes, this is this is pretty fun, and I think it has a lot of really interesting potential use cases So yeah, they opened up It's a bot builder dash real-time media calling extension and it's on github right now So you can start playing around with it a bit if you'd like But I think some of the interesting things that this could do is a you could have like a true virtual assistant Like sitting in on your calls I really love the idea that a bot could be taking notes on a call somehow because that for me is like the most Annoying and difficult part of Being on calls is multitasking and trying to take competent notes while also listening and asking relevant questions When I'm doing work calls for example So being able to have a bot that's transcribing and maybe even pulling out that a high-level Information for what the topic is we're talking about I think would be super valuable Or I could potentially set like specific keywords around things that I want it to highlight So I could say like note and it would hear that and then transcribe that that particular next minute or so Now it's a video call So you're talking about some kind of animated avatar that you're seeing There's really no need to have that video For the for the bot itself, right? But I guess it would be nice to it could play videos for you Which would be interesting what I think is good about having a visual representation is that it does kind of alert the other Participants that there is a another entity listening into the call and I think you know we were talking about this over on bot makers earlier today how increasingly people are Hmm. It's like people expect bots to be able to know and do everything And they don't really understand their limitations and sometimes they get bots confused with people like for example we use intercom in our company and Whenever a new user comes to our website my picture pops up and is like hey can I help and answer any questions about what we do and People constantly think that I'm a bot that I'm not a person and it's partially true because technically that first interaction is You know just triggered by their presence. I'm not there typing like waiting sitting around waiting for someone to show up on the website But it does do a handoff to me after the fact so I Think it's good to have a bot avatar of sorts like in on these video calls to kind of make people feel more Comfortable and know that there is not just one person. There's also a you know an artificially intelligent driven Avatar hanging out on the call as well and there's certain conversational situations that probably benefit from having a Even even a cartoonish person to look at and react to One of the the the things that that was mentioned in this venture beat article was the idea of doing a pre-interview Where you have some AI Doing sentiment and mood tracking To kind of weed out job applicants. Yeah, I'm really curious how that would work Yeah, be tracking like how the person is feeling about the questions Is that really enough to kick an applicant out of the running? I mean if you weed people out for typos with you know, why not if they get angry on your Skype call They're weeded out.  Well, that's what I thought like are they is their mood going to be the same if they know They're talking to a bot instead of an actual person. So yeah, what would you want? What would you want to use it for? I? Guess I could do interviews with People, you know interviews that I don't have time for it could just have the bot to them Yeah, you don't really need a video person for that a video avatar But that that would be a potentially interesting use case as well Well, yeah, but you you know for a video podcast then you can have the special the special bot host I would have a bot in for our sword and laser interviews. I would just correct me on my pronunciation of things Actually Veronica, that's pronounced pronunciation bot. Yeah. Yeah Well, but other bot news out of build Microsoft bot framework channels are gonna publish Or to publish a bot were extended to Skype for business Cortana and Bing So I guess it's easier to find bots now on Bing. Yeah. Yeah, that's that it's really cool Actually, you can get like they they didn't really like do a huge announcement about this It just kind of bubbled up to the surface, but yeah bots and other integrations Connectors things that you can use on Microsoft teams or on Skype Those are all searchable now and Bing and they come up in a really nice way I think that's kind of cool and something that I do really like appreciate about Microsoft teams Is that they have an in-platform search tool So with Slack you have to go to the Slack app store that's on the website In teams who just search for for apps from within the platform itself So you don't have to actually leave and go do that. I think that's a nice I think we're going to be seeing a lot more of that kind of stuff in the future All right. Thanks everybody who participates in our subreddit helps us figure out good ideas of things to talk about So keep them coming at daily tech news show reddit.com a bunch of messages Today I might need your help reading some of these Ben Delano from the rain is almost gone Seattle. Although my wife's flying there tonight. She said the rain's coming back Sorry, Ben said I may be connecting too many dots here, but I saw something that made me think I saw a vehicle transport truck traveling on the 405 today heading towards redmond Washington that had badging from romulus michigan and pilot transport on the side of the trailer Of course redmond is where microsoft is right with the microsoft summit this week It made me wonder if ford might have sent something up to unveil. It might be nothing or something We've already seen but I thought I'd pass it along Fascinating. Thank you ben for the on the highway report I feel like wouldn't that be fun if if ben broke some news. Yeah, like rumor We have another message from reynard mayfield who says you mentioned roku is falling behind Roku has the comcast xfinity app. It does only work on the home wi-fi network Many may ask what is the benefit of this? Well with the reality of having to rent to your extra boxes from comcast and xfinity I have the roku as an extra box not having to rent extra boxes for extra tvs is great No one has only one tv in their house I think some people do you can buy one roku and move it around or multiples and not give your money to Comcast that's true. That's the thing that roku can do chromecast. I think they support that as well Also android and ios so you could you could air play But but yeah roku is probably the easiest box like device to do that with I got another email here from jesse aka hometown rival in indianapolis Said greetings tommingang my twitter feed was recently raving about a new game from the developers of the carrot line of apps Called artificial super intelligence or asi Willing to part with three dollars to see what all the fuss was about I bought the game started my journey to create the world's first asi and I wasn't disappointed Anyone who has used a carrot app before will feel at home with the game style and humor while you progress Carrots intelligence level from super dumb to super smart You'll have to make decisions that positively or negatively affect your staff investors the government the press the public If you fill or deplete any of these bars it's game over for that version of earth You read that right in addition to building an asi You'll be doing so across an infinite number of parallel universes One of the best aspects of this game is that it helps you learn about ai and how developing one works in reality Oh sounds like something out of rick and morty To me Yeah, absolutely. I love the idea of playing to build an asi though Yeah, that that's pretty rad Alternate universes. Are you watching rick and morty? Are you caught up? No? Yeah, it's a great. It's fantastic. Yes. I am It's fantastic All right the next one comes from sunil who says the boring company is doing an amazing job trying to provide Layers of lanes for mobility at high speeds But if a person is going to get nauseous by just looking at a test run traversing through the tunnels I'm not sure what the person is going to feel like while actually traveling through one I would not prefer a theme park ride before my appraisal meeting I would I would I think he's saying I would prefer to not have a theme park ride before my appraisal meeting Are there any plans of providing imagery slash graffiti inside the tunnels? If so Providing images that look like you're standing still or traveling at 20 miles per hour when you're actually traveling at 150 miles per hour May have what would that have any effect in reducing the nausea? If we can feel moving while being still in front of a laptop or phone There must be a way to make us feel still while moving As of now elan is boring through the space x parking lot and does not have to deal with permits But for how long will this project be within the premises? Even if the project is going on within space x premises Won't the city have some objections if someone is digging too deep? What kind of regulations are in place for such a thing? Sorry to throw a bunch of questions just like that. I tried googling but did not get convincing answers Yeah, I don't know. I imagine he knows how deep he can go without Causing structural instability to his own factory And that that's that's probably the the best regulation against him doing something wrong that way But eventually yeah, he'll have to get permits from the city of los angeles. So I don't think there's a big chance of him Causing too much of a problem boring tunnels underneath his own factory But I am very curious myself about this idea that the video that they put out Came with a warning that saying this has flashing lights and may cause nausea and some people It's a limited number of people I don't know if a video that causes that would have the same effect in real life I know that some people who can see things who have problems with videos Don't have a problem if if they're actually out in the world seeing similar effects It's the video refresh rate that causes the issue and and analog the analog world effect doesn't have that Same time lots people get car sick, right? So People get car sick are probably not going to want to be down in this tunnel I get car sick So when I when I'm look when I'm trying to read something So I wonder if I'm not trying to read something Well, I'll just feel like being in a regular car when I don't get I don't know a lot a lot of questions Yeah, so no no reading for you while you're traveling at 125 miles an hour through through the tunnels of la Maybe if it's completely smooth that might I might not notice I can read on the subway Well, yeah, and and that's you know what I think that's a good analog for Sunil to think about The subway has these same sorts of lights And especially in countries like Japan the same sorts of speeds So yeah, you can you can Use that as an analog of does that kind of thing cause problems and as to his his suggestion of of images I've definitely seen on different metros where advertising is put up so that it animates once the stroke Yeah, yeah, I love that. I think that's amazing. Um, I saw a lot of that I think I saw some of that on the magnetic trains In in china actually then the high speed trains there Yeah, it's it's like a little little show for you right there on the walls of the subway That's right. Uh, well that is it for this episode of the daily tech news show Thank you for Veronica Belmont for joining us as always what you got going on I'll sort the the usual man sorden laser sorden laser dot com We are going to be at bacon next not this coming weekend the weekend after memorial day weekend And maybe we'll record something fun because you're going to be up up in san francisco staying with me Yeah, let's do that Folks if you if you're going to be in san francisco or if you want to fly into san francisco airport Bacon is right there at the airport marriott on memorial day weekend And we will be there interviewing james s a quarry Ty frank and daniel abraham the authors of the expanse So, yeah, come on down meet us and check it out. Go check it out. Look up bacon b a y c o n I will not promise there will be bacon, but I bet the marriott could serve you some Yes Thanks to everybody who gives a little value back to this show for the value they get from it including jerald kates Jeff haywood robin siever and so many more you guys are the best for making us happen If you would like to join them you can check out patreon.com slash dts Our email address is feedback at daily tech news show dot com We're live monday through friday 4 30 p.m. Eastern 20 30 utc at alpha geek radio dot com and diamond club dot tv And we're at facebook.com slash daily tech news show our website is daily tech news show dot com back tomorrow with patrick Beja talk to you then Show is part of the frog pants network Get more at frog pants dot com Bob hopes you have enjoyed this program Good show Sorry, I choked up there at the end. Yeah, what happened? Are you all right? I just got a dry spot Thank you. I had a little water there, but yes, we can how you pulled a bodega I thought you were cheering up because it was something something emotional Yes, I was just so emotional over those carrot apps No, I wanted to talk about the artificial super intelligence, but I couldn't like I was incapable of talking about it Oh, perhaps other forces are and I was looking at the article while you were choking So I was like asking you questions. You're asking me questions. I like you're obviously not looking at the screen Sorry Top of the heap for titles with a real slim bezel stand up Want a bitcoin the problem with procrastination? Want to cry is not a master of its domain Yo return my copied files What's the uber under on uber get it over under? On uber under yeah, no, I got it uber over under Max had a bot now on skype hashtag not a bot Echo with a dash of google home I liked my title and it's not here making the sausage No, well, it's what's the so I was saying the uber over under But shane said what's the uber under on uber? I think let's see uber over under You said what's what's the uber over under? Yeah nice Should we go with that? If you it's not our main story though. Oh, okay, but what is our most Veronica not a bot? Ah, it doesn't have to be the main story. Yeah Dts can be replaced by a well-scripted bot. I'm still levelating though. We can we can accident of a hero Veronica's not a bot I think that one gets suggested every week Botmont Veronica botmont I see you I get it. I see you um I see you I see you Uh, so you just want to do the uh uber. What's the over under on uber? Oh, what's the uber's? What's the uber over under is what I was thinking. Okay. What else you guys like? Oh Nothing Problem procrastination it's pretty good too Wait, so that one again the problem with procrastination Problem with I'll tell you the problem with procrastination later Instaclassic We'll tell you the problem with we'll get to the problem with procrastination next show Uh, okay time for me to pick a title Another problem procrastination. I think it's good That's just on stuff The problem with procrastination Yeah, go with that. All right. Sure done Done so It's still like it's honorable mention for the uber over under Yeah Had a good vibe with it.  I think it needed more seasoning though more earthy It needed it it didn't have enough acid mm-hmm Too many tannins too many tannins Ah story of my life I'd be tannin Yeah, the one of christ stuff Find that is a wake-up call and I think that probably fulfills somebody's prediction from our prediction show this year I'm oh, yeah, I'm fairly certain it was either len or patrick Could be remembering that wrong who said there will be a big security breach that will finally cause people to Change behaviors. Mm. So we're halfway there with the big security. It's just a changing behavior. I know No Yeah There is your problem Well, there's your problem um Well, what are the articles I read was blaming microsoft in part by saying, you know They created this system where they kept moving you off of windows and people were like no But I wrote software for windows xp and it doesn't work with windows 7 and I don't or windows vista and I I don't want to spend the money to change the software and that package software people would like sell you Software as if you were buying a thing that would last for a long time and then it doesn't work on newer versions of windows I feel like microsoft's trying to change that by making windows 10 just an evolving Operating system that continues to be updated and that will push software makers into making sure their software stays up to date and working Um So I it's the kind of problem that's slowly being solved Yeah, what point uh I mean, I wonder if I don't know that's weird. No, I'm just thinking just thinking well because It's a fair point. I don't think it's necessarily malicious, but it's a fair point that when Most operating systems were not networked You could sell a piece of software as sort of a permanent object like by the software It'll always run on your Commodore 64 operating system, right? It'll always run on your pc dos Uh, and it was perfectly sensible to say well I'm not going to upgrade because I have this essential piece of software that runs on this Why would I bother but now that there's networked software you can't get away with that? It's a different It's a different metaphor. I'm I'm wondering if this will just mean like there'll be kind of uh, not disciplinary but um You know basically so the way os's are written right now and they integrate um They integrate directly with your hardware or whatever software application. What do you get sandbox everything? Well, that's where like containers and virtual machines Specifically where you would have a virtual machine so you could run two virtual machines say like this is all your creative software This is all your internet stuff And so the two containers containers are great for that too because then you don't even have to have the overhead of the entire os Not stalling uh, who's the guy? That went to I'm trying to remember his name. We don't know texilla remember um hacker guy He couldn't touch a who's On texilla Yeah, he was uh, he was he I guess he he He was dating uh, Darcy woods that you talk about screensavers not texilla. No, no texilla. We had him on Oh kevin mitnick. Yeah, we had him on um the last the last four years texilla Uh, and he said it's one reason why he used google. He could touch computers by that point Yeah, yes, he could so one reason why he used google docs for everything is that it effectively sandboxed His machine from whatever attachment so you could open it like a like a word docket He would open it up in google docs right not within uh an application running directly on his os It said it's one way. I mean, you know, and the rest of it was you know Well, I think that's the you know, there's a lot of people who accuse Microsoft of wanting to make windows software as a service because it's more lucrative for them But there's also it's easier to secure when you're providing that providing it that way I mean, I'm not saying what their motivations are when I say that but I'm like, there's also a very good reason to do sass is sass is its own its own giant complicated hill of stuff sass sass, I don't always want to say sassy This issue of sassy But all software has to be constantly evolved Do you think we'll ever get to the point where we've figured out networking and processors to the point where you don't have to constantly change and update software? No Because as long as they're never stabilize the system Well, as long as there are hardware improvements for anything that goes faster Well, that's so there's the question right is do we get to the point where hardware improvements are no longer I mean, that's like saying is there anything in human society that doesn't require constant improvement or updating with time? Yeah, well, yeah So there's a lot of things in society that that generally are considered You know pretty much in their current form with maybe minor improvements But you just you just can't really improve on it It just works the way it works and it works well that way And I wonder if we ever get electronic hardware to that point No You know like a garden hoe garden hose a garden hoe Don't call me a garden hoe A garden variety not a garden variety A garden hoe Or a trash can we you know it changed the models but generally trash can we've we've perfected it It's it's a big enclosed Well, it's because well, no, it's The alphabet that's a good one p-squared It's pretty stable It's it's weird because I think with with improvements in hardware There's always going to be the desire to do more like oh, this allows me to do yada yada in a more effective way You're right our garbage cans haven't changed but the way we collect garbage Sure, but that's what I'm saying is hardware not collect is the software, right? hardware is is the can And and there are there are certain forms that we get to where we're like there's there's there's always the innovation curve And then there's the stabilization curve where it's like, okay There's a point where plateaus, but it's not permanent for example Let's go back to your garbage can when I used to take out the trash back in middle school It was the standard kind of iconic circular corrugated steel with the little round top, right Trash can I now have is a wheelie bin with a connected flip-flop? Maybe it's a trashy example then But I I think there I think there are examples of things where it's like the wheel, you know like The wheel is pretty good And they're trying to find ways and it's it's interesting. You're right the concept of the wheel has stayed There's a there's a law of diminishing returns on certain things though where it's like Yeah, you can make incremental improvements But essentially you've you've you've gotten the form in good working order And I guess that's what I'm saying is like how long before we get hard electronic hardware to that point where we're not making these Vast improvements every few months that require software to be entirely rewritten to accommodate them When do we get the part where like, oh, yeah, we're still making minor improvements Yeah, we've got a trash can with a lid on it now, but that doesn't mean we have to rip up all the software Well, that's that's the idea behind the hypervisor, right where you could run a low level Um software between your Your os and the actual hardware Act as an intermediate That's the separate point the hypervisor. I'm saying like the the hardware keeps changing Right, what if what if we get to the point like processors, right? It used to be like Oh, well now we have more megahertz and more we have to have more megahertz and we've gotten to the point where like speed Is just something that you you tweak You don't need to have more speed all the time Well, you know, and it's it's interesting because and this is what i'm saying as as hardware makes more things Possible there is a there's a desire to take use of that capacity Right if all you wanted to do is word process But that that's what I just said is that at a process at a certain point processor speed got to the point where It wasn't worth it to add more speed because you couldn't take enough advantage of it So what at what point does all hardware hit that limit? But that's what i'm saying you're missing my point when things got to that point We're like, oh, we don't we have all our processors are fast or fast or fast enough for what we want to do We'll have new usage case scenarios, right? We'll want vr. We want We want you know, I'm saying yeah keep going along that procedure and it's like oh now gpus are maxed out now Cash is maxed out like when do we get to the point where like this is the best way to run the computer? It's because the the the underlying way the the hardware would run would probably change significantly Will it though will it like throughout most of human history things haven't changed as fast as they have changed with hardware with computer hardware Yeah, and that's what i'm saying. It's gonna change. It's you would need to You're saying it will always change it will always change in a fast enough rate that you won't have to keep changing up software yes I'm not saying you just I you know, I Fine you live a thousand years and you write me a you write you write me a report Well, and that is the problem is like I think it would I think it will be a wow before we hit that point But yeah, I mean a car A car runs pretty much, you know for we had a pretty stable car situation for a long time We have a basic car design in the same way that we have a basic We have a basic hardware no conceptually, but like the way it works, right? We've moved from we for a while is like more powerful and more powerful cars and then we got to like, okay Well, now we're now we're tweaking the designs and well now now we're tweaking energy. Hey guys. I gotta go Okay That's entertaining as this was to listen to I'm just later Thanks, Veronica. Yeah, I'm out next. I'm out It is next week. Yes, I'll be in new york Yeah, really and then are we doing memorial day? No, we will not be doing a regular show the headlines only show. Okay, sounds good. All right. I'll see you guys in a little bit Okay, all right. Well, you'll see me before then because you're coming here on memorial day. Okay. Bye.  No, I mean like if it's if it's given out like free, but I won't go out of my way to order it Even if it's super awesome I don't know.  No, she's saying no roger No, you can't have lost your taste for bacon. I thought you were trying to get rid of me like no roger No, come right as a cook. That is not what she's Uh, you too bad at amc and bbc america. That's nice. Wait, would youtube did yeah Uh, oh wait stars All right, well, we're gonna be out of here too.


Davis Media Access is an organization that uses technology and human ingenuity to help document our shared history. A non-profit that helps other non-profits, schools, local government and ordinary citizens share information, build capacity and foster transparency. This is Davis Media Access or DMA. Above all, DMA is a community center, a hands-on learning lab, a place where people meet. What happens when you can no longer do the things you normally do? That's a question that every person and every institution had to answer this past year. In the best of times, non-commercial community media reflects the interests and needs of the communities it serves. And in the worst of times, such as a year bookended by rampant racism and political divisiveness and a global pandemic, it becomes a lifeline, a way to get things done when nothing else is doable, and most critically, a way to communicate important, locally relevant information. When we closed the doors to the media center on March 13, 2020, like everyone else, we thought it would just be for a short while. We couldn't anticipate the flood of calls from other non-profits needing help taking their signature events virtual. We didn't know we'd be called upon to document numerous local marches, protests and vigils around racial justice. And we had no idea that we'd lack access to our studios as we confronted producing the largest local election season we'd ever encountered. What do you do when what you do every day is completely disrupted? How do you navigate a vibrant community that thrives on interaction, being cut off from each other? You adapt. DMA's staff, board and committed volunteers worked hard to meet these challenges by rapidly learning new skills that allowed us to continue serving the community. Public Affairs programmers learned how to produce radio from home, keeping fresh content on KDRT 95.7 FM. We produced a year-long weekly report on COVID-19 news and developments in Yolo County, interviewing community leaders, elected officials, teachers, students, artists and non-profit leaders from across the county. Our music DJs kept music alive at a time when venues were shuttered and musicians out of work. Our staff explored and mastered a variety of platforms that let us produce high-quality programs remotely. COVID-19 challenged many organizations to produce once-live events in a safe and remote manner. DMA provided a suite of services to help them move events online. Like our fellow non-profits and community-based organizations, this year has challenged us on every possible front. Long hours on Zoom, coupled with budget worries, concern for our own health, as well as that of our community, took over at times. We're grateful to the City of Davis and the Davis Joint Unified School District for our long-term partnerships. We're grateful to our many volunteers and supporters for helping to create and sustain this organization in this most difficult of years. Unlike normal years, we don't have statistics about numbers of users and programs aired because this has not been a normal year. Over the past decade, the national media scene has driven home the importance of local, non-commercial, independent media. A handful of large corporations controls nearly all of the media in this country. The result is a homogenous perspective that sacrifices localism. In a time of separation and division, we're proud to say we've been a force for good in Yolo County and that we've built community in a time of crisis.


A unique educational event was held last night in Niswa for foster care providers and adoptive parents. The event was held at Grandview Lodge in Niswa and provided an opportunity for providers and adoptive parents to join together, meet each other and discuss common challenges they face. The session was put on by Bridges of Hope as part of their self-healing communities project. The organization hopes to develop a network of support for foster care providers and adoptive families moving forward. We know that foster care, respite, adoption, they're all very rewarding, but also very challenging experiences. And so we're just really excited for people to have a chance to network together.  I know what you're talking about. I experience that too. The event was free and provided childcare for families attending with young children. If you enjoyed this segment of Lakeland News, please consider making a tax-deductible contribution to Lakeland PBS.


I think impact evaluation matters for almost any policy type because I think it's hard to know if what you're doing with your policy is actually having the impact that you want and that's certainly true in the forest conservation world. I think forests in particular are very hard to know impact because what's easy to see is whether the tree is standing. What's hard to know is whether it would have been standing if you hadn't done anything and that means that we are in the business of guessing what would have happened to that tree if you hadn't done anything and that leaves a lot of room for assumptions and beliefs and has not always been a place that we use data and we're starting to use data more and I think that's good. Yeah I think it's it's very easy to again especially in forest say I can see the forest it's there and to just push the question are you sure that it was going away. I think we are wanting to push harder on not just grabbing some data but thinking through including with the agencies why would you think this would work and having that focus us on the way we analyze the numbers because numbers are great but you can make up a lot of things with numbers and the extent to which we can use a good idea that's locally informed and ideally locally collaborative to inform how we use the numbers I think we need to improve on that. I think the end goal for me is that there's a collaboration which leads to an improvement in policy not a fight between well-meaning actors and complaining analysts. The earlier we start this discussion the more likely we work collaboratively the more likely we work efficiently by collecting data maybe with the agency in the places we should collect data by knowing what they were thinking instead of trying to infer that from afar which is a tricky business. So I think you've heard a lot of people here who have much more policy experience than I do say that they think it would work better if the discussions between the people who have the time to work on impact and the people who would like to improve their policies but have less time could meet a little bit earlier on. We need as much impact evaluation as would actually improve policy so we already have impact evaluations that aren't particularly helpful partly because we're still learning which are the useful ones to do and we are missing tons of impact evaluations that would help so we definitely need much more than is done now. I think if you had to make that a harder debate and I will guess the counter person will probably say yes we need a lot but we should focus the limited resources we have on where we could learn well and where if we learned well we could change an important policy in a significant way and so I think the answer isn't every single one you can think of but it's way more than we have now if we do a good job.