presents Joan Leslie and Marshall Thompson. From Hollywood, the mutual network and cooperation with Family Theatre presents the Rainbow Chaser, starring Marshall Thompson, and now here is your hostess, Joan Leslie. Thank you, Tony LaFranco. Family Theatre's only purpose is to bring to everyone's attention a practice that must become an important part of our lives if we are to win peace for ourselves, peace for our families, and peace for the world. Family Theatre urges you to pray, pray together as a family. And now to our transcribed drama, The Rainbow Chaser, starring Marshall Thompson as Jim. Jim? Jim? He's not back from lunch yet, Mr. Kearns? Well, it's almost a quarter of two. He's asked me to tell you he might be a little delayed. Okay. You happen to know if he sent that wire to Spalding this morning? I couldn't say. Maybe that's what's keeping him. I hope not. I told him to phone it in better than three hours ago. Well, he ought to be back pretty soon. Hi, Dan. Ginny. Hello, Mike. How are you, Miss Kearns? Fine. How do you like the sporting goods business? Great. Probably like it even better when I learn it. Mike, tell Jim I want to see him as soon as he gets back, will you? You bet, Mr. Kearns. Come on in, honey. Well, don't tell me you've got Jim out running errands. I have not. He's still on his lunch hour. His lunch hour? Yes. That's just about the way it strikes me. But he had lunch with me. We finished almost an hour ago over at Wright's. Well, he probably had some appointment. I just wish he'd leave word around when he has to go somewhere. Well, come to think of it, he did say something about the dentist. Oh, come now, Ginny. You don't have to cover up for him. Well, I'm not covering up for him. Very well. But you can't treat him like an office boy. Office boy? I've made him assistant manager of the business. What do you want? Dad, why don't you try to like Jim a little? Try? He likes you? Well, I do like him. I don't have to try. I like him fine. But you can like someone and still see he's not going anywhere. And that's what I mean. It's your attitude toward him. I can't help seeing what's there. Dad, I love him. We're engaged. Why do you think I've taken him in here and paid him more than he's worth? You don't know what he's worth. I don't. I admit it. But after the orange blossoms and the honeymoon, I don't want you to wake up and find you're married to nothing but an ex-football player. Oh, he never even talks about that. I've heard what he talks about. Big dreams, the big chance, the big killing. We have said yourself a man has to think big. Thinking big is different from pipe dreaming, honey. He's restless. I knew Jim's father and I know him. And I loved his father. But the man was restless. He just couldn't settle down. There's nothing hereditary about restlessness. Oh, I'm not saying there is. Ginny, this isn't an argument. I'm thinking of you. All right, the boy's trying to change. Be firm in what you expect of him now and you'll both be a lot happier later. I know. And it can't be done in a day. It takes time and it takes patience. So start now. Well, I have. He's been saving regularly. Because you put your foot down. Men don't resent it. They like to be bossed a little. Come in. You want to see me, Mr. Kerns? Oh, yes, Jim. Hi, honey. Jimmy. Uh, no kissing during business hours. You can dock him for this one. Where have you been, you sneak? Oh, I was down at the hardware store. I ordered something about a month ago and I've been meaning to pick it up. And that took an hour? Well, I had to stop over at the county building too. About some property for a friend of mine. I just wanted to ask you, Jim, if you got that wire off to Spalding this morning. Oh, my gosh. Well, it doesn't really matter. I'll phone it in myself. I've got the message right on my desk. I meant to send it. It's all right. Well, let me go out and do it right now. I'm awfully sorry. It's all right. Excuse me, honey. You see what I mean? Yes. You've just got to keep after him. Son, what is it? Well, it's called a scintillometer. How much did it cost? Almost 500 bucks. Jim.  I'll get it back. Maybe 10 times over. It was up at the AEC office in the county building this afternoon. And the fellow I spoke to says they've got aerial maps of the whole mountain range around Santa Rosa. Has he let anyone see the maps yet? No, no. The first time anyone will see them is tomorrow morning at 11 o'clock up at the Santa Rosa office. Then it's just going to be one big dash to the hills. But are they sure there is uranium up there? Well, it's like I told you they're going to have some certain hot spots marked on the map, places where the instruments in the survey planes got a strong reaction when they flew over. It means there's something there. They don't know what or how much, but if it's uranium ore and there's enough of it, you may have a find. Then you just file a claim? Yeah, take out ore samples and see what you've got. Have you told Ginny about this yet? Well, no. No, I wanted to get it all set first. But you'll have to let Mr. Kearns know if you aren't going into work tomorrow. I know. I'll tell him. What's the matter, son? You're afraid they'll laugh at you? I guess so. Kearns thinks I'm a bubblehead anyway. Oh, no. I does. He doesn't make any secret of it either. Well, you can't stop people from how they feel. I've known Alan Kearns all my life. He has his own way of thinking, his own way of doing things, and he's set in those ways. Do you think his ways are right? Well, he's one of the most prosperous men in town. He's worked hard. I think he deserves to be successful. Well, you're trying to say that if I run up to Santa Rosa and find some uranium in one afternoon, I don't deserve it? No, I'm not trying to say anything of the kind. But you don't think much of the idea, huh? Not much. What do you think Dad would have thought of it? He'd have been up there three days ago, standing at the head of the line. And you think I ought to forget it?  All through your childhood, your father and I tried to teach you what we thought you needed to know as best we could. But you're not a child anymore. This is something you have to decide for yourself. Sure you won't have some coffee, Dad? No thanks. I'll have enough trouble getting my body to sleep as it is. Jim? No, no, thanks, honey. Well, Mr. Kearns? Jim, I don't know, but I have a feeling it's the most hair-brained scheme I've ever heard in my life. I sort of thought that's what you'd say. To begin with, you know absolutely nothing about uranium prospecting. Well, we don't either do most of the people going up there. That's why I bought the cinematometer. $500. Well, that's what they cost. Now, kids, I didn't get out of bed at 12 o'clock at night to hear a lot of shouting. I'm sorry. It was my idea to have you here, this, Dad. I just didn't know what to think. I understand. Well, I'll tell you something, Jenny. I'm not so sure I understand. Why does your father have to come down here before I can find out what you think? Come on, now let's keep it down. I'm sorry. Because the idea is just crazy. Over half our savings for something you don't even know how to use. I know how to use. Without even asking me.  All I want is one day off to go up to Santa Rosa and take a look around. One day off and $500 just thrown away. You think I couldn't sell this thing when I got up there, even to the profit? I had to wait over a month to get it. Jim, I think what's at issue here is a lot more than the day off or even the $500. Serious as that is. Well, I don't see it. Well, this has something to do with you, the kind of person you are. A man who's going to get married is taking on responsibilities. I know that. You can't just pull up stakes and run off every time you see a rainbow. We're not pulling up stakes. It's one day. What if I find a place where there's ore, real uranium ore? Just what do you think your chances are? An amateur of doing that. Well, it's happened before. What about that fellow in the paper who sold his mind for $9 million? After he'd spent months looking, and he almost killed himself. Well, he was an amateur. Well, Jim, what I'm getting at is that you may go on like this all your life, always looking for the pot of gold, always restless, like my father. All right, like your father.  I know. We went to school together and grew up together. Till the day he died, we were friends. But face up to it, Jim, your dad was unrealistic. He was a dreamer. He had a lot of bad luck. Because he banked on luck. Luck and dreams and hope. And it wasn't enough. It never is. Well, maybe not, but I want to try it. I've gone this far, and it's just one day. I want to try it. All right, Jim, you've already bought the scintillometer. I'll give you the day off if you want to take it. But you and Ginny, you're going to have to come to some agreement about this. We've already got an agreement. We're engaged. That's not what I mean. I've got Ginny's interest to consider, and I don't want her married to a will of the wisp. Well, don't you think that's something for her to decide? Yes, I do, Jim. Good night. Good night, sir. Don't be up too late, honey. I won't, dad. Well? Jim, do you really think you could sell that scintillometer if you don't find anything? I'm sure of it. Honey, you know I love you. Oh, honey. But I think dad's right. We can't expect to build a future on nothing but pipe dreams. Don't expect to. All right, then I want you to promise me something.  I want to very much. Then do it. But just for one day. All right. And I want you to promise me that from now on you'll never ask or try to do this kind of thing again. You mean look for uranium? Yes, or anything else. Just chasing a rainbow. Well, if that's the way you want it. It's how it's got to be, Jim. Or what? Or I can't marry you. Well, that's pretty strong talk. I know, but I feel strongly about this. Well, what if I strike it lucky and find something out there tomorrow? You won't. But suppose I do, just supposing. Well, it'd be different, I guess. I'd have to think it over. But I'm talking about if you don't.  All right. Let's wait till tomorrow night when I get back. But I want you to promise me now. You just said if I hit it lucky, you might want to think it over. Yes, but I- Then it ought to work both ways, honey. How do you mean? I want to think it over, too. Hello. Oh, yes, Ginny. No. No, he's not back yet. Well, I've been keeping his dinner for him since six. He ought to be along soon. Yes. Yes, I know, Ginny. He told me. Well, it's something you'll both have to decide. I can- Oh, there's the door. Hold on just a minute. Yes. Excuse me, ma'am. Are you Mrs. Seitz? Yes. Jim's mother? Yes, is anything wrong? No, I'm- I'm- Well, my name is Sawyer, Mrs. Seitz. Phil Sawyer. I run on to Jim this afternoon, along the Bonita Range, just north of Santa Rosa. Well, where is he? Is he all right? Well, yes, he's fine, ma'am. That's what he dropped me off to tell you. Oh, you mean he's here? He was up to a moment ago. He said he wanted to drive over to his girl's house. Ginny, I think, he said her name was. And would I ring the bell and wait here for him? He's on his way over there now. Well, that's my understanding.  I've got someone on the phone. It's a pleasure. Hello, Ginny. Ginny, he's on his way over to your place. Well, I don't know. I can't imagine. Yes, yes, he should be along in a few minutes. Yes, and have him call me, will you please? All right, goodbye. Oh, I'm awfully sorry, Mr. Sawyer. Not at all, ma'am. Did I understand you to say you were up at Santa Rosa prospecting this afternoon? That's correct, ma'am. Here, we stake three claims in places where that senator leader of his was clicking so much he'd like to break. He found some uranium? Now, you can't be certain. I've seen veins fat and sassy in the surface, and 10 feet later they peter out to nothing. Does Jim realize that? Your son? Oh, I'll say he does. The funny thing, though, he doesn't seem to be much concerned whether it pays out or not. How do you mean? Well, he says he learned something out there this afternoon. Now, it doesn't sound like much to me. About mining? Well, that's what I asked him, but he said, no, no, Phil, not just about mining, about something else a lot more important. So I said, what was that? And he says, about chasing rainbows. Hi, honey. Come on in. Are your folks home, Jenny? Well, daddy is. Mom went over to Mrs. Granger's right after dinner. Is anything wrong, Jim? I'm not sure. I hope not.  Well, nothing definite. We stake some claims, but... Who's we? Oh, a man named Phil Sawyer, a prospector I met up in Santa Rosa. Oh, Dad, Jim's back. Hello, son. Mr. Cairns. Well, how did it go? Well, we staked a few claims. Sit down and tell us all about it. Jim said he ran into an old prospector up there. Yeah, typical sourdough. He's been working those hills for years. Yeah, but still broke, huh? Guess you could say that.  Give your first-hand look at how such fellows have wasted their lives. You might get an argument from some of them on that. They don't think it's been a waste. Well, of course they don't. Or at least they don't dare admit it, even to themselves. But look at them. Well, that's what I've been doing today, looking at them. Even more than looking for uranium. Did you have any trouble selling the scintillometer? No.  No, no, no. What I mean is I didn't try to sell it. What? Well, I'm not so sure I want to. But you said if you didn't find anything today. What I said was we didn't find anything definite. Nobody did. Nobody ever does right away. We found some hotspots. We're filing a claim on that. But, Jim, you promised. No, I didn't promise. Son, you're twisting words. Well, you'll see who's twisting what. Before you went back upstairs last night, I remarked that if I wanted to, I could probably sell a scintillometer up at Santa Rosa without any trouble. Yes, and then later you said you would sell it. No, what happened later was that you said I would sell it. Oh, more exactly, you asked me if I was sure I could sell it, and I said yes. Well, if you're going to split hairs. I'll bet you think that's what I'm doing. It's the nicest way I can describe it. Well, then, for a change, let's don't be nice. Let's call this what it is. You and your father trying to make me over into the ideal husband and son-in-law. All dad's trying to do is help you. Help me what? Be like him? Maybe I'm not like him. Maybe I'm different. But, Jim, you promise. I didn't promise anything. You make up your mind I should do something, and then you convince yourself I've agreed with you. Jim, I think you remember our conversation last night about being impractical, banking on nothing but luck. Bet I do, and I remember something else. We talked about my father, and I sat here and listened to you condescending about him. Now, that's not a fair word. The word is condescending. You liked him. He was a pleasant fellow, but a bit of a bonehead. I didn't say that. You didn't have to. I know what you think of him. He was my friend. Sure, and you were his friend, too. But have I ever told you what he thought of you? Jim. My dad thought you were a stodgy shopkeeper. Jim, I won't let you talk like this. We'll talk like us about my father, a dreamer, an idler, a failure, anything that comes into your head, and I sit and listen to it. But it's not meant to be an insult? Well, I take it as an insult.  And I'm sick of being made over in the image of something I'm not. I don't ask you and Jenny for promises. I don't ask you to be like me. But I have got the right to expect that my daughter won't marry a man who'll let her starve to death. No question about it. That's all dad's worried about? I don't believe that. Oh, Jim. I don't think your dad feels a man can support a wife unless he does nothing but work to nine to five in a sporting good store. You're going to do it with uranium? Maybe. Just maybe. Jimmy, be reasonable.  You mean be like your father, nothing but safe and sane? You think that's a bad thing to be? Not if you want to. Not if it gives you pleasure. That's why I think my dad was as wrong about yours as he is about mine. You can't measure everyone by yourself. You can't do it.  And what are you going to be, Jim? Like those sourdoughs up in the hills, chasing a rainbow all your life? Have you ever chased a rainbow, Mr. Kerns? Not that I'm aware of. And how do you know what it is? How do you know what it's like?  How can you tell? Because he banks on luck and he fails. And that's a fool? A great percentage of the time, yes. But what if he succeeds?  Success isn't a matter of luck. I agree with you. But not once since this uranium business came up, have you considered that I might have brains enough to learn anything about it or will enough to work at it? You figure if I connect at all, it'll be blind luck. You mean you'd quit your job at the store? That isn't what I mean at all. Well, son, you can't hold two jobs at once. I don't intend to. I've got a partner who'll work the claim and I'll go up on weekends and help him. Jim, it's not practical. I think it can be done. I'm afraid I just don't see it. Well, I've got a difference of opinion. Let's give it a try and see how it works. I sound like I've tried to be patient about this, but you seem to have forgotten completely that you have an obligation to Jenny. I haven't forgotten it. Honey, Dad's just thinking of our future. He doesn't want me to marry someone who make me unhappy. Do you think I'll make you unhappy? No. Not if you settle down and... And how will you make me happy? What? What's your obligation to me? Have you and your dad ever talked that over? Son, I suggest we stick to the subject. I think we're right on it. We're talking about our marriage. I've been told over and over what's expected of me. I want to know what I can expect. Honey... Can I expect a little faith and trust now and then? Well, of course. Well, when's it going to start? You and your father have made quite a project of developing my good qualities. I'd like to see something coming back. You're making it very hard for me to keep my temper. Well, now you know what I've been up against for the last six months. Jim, you're being rude. Well, son, I can excuse the rudeness, but you're going to have to make a choice. I'm not going to have to do anything. It's your job or that uranium mine. Oh, Jim, please, think of us. I am. Take your choice. We'll see if it's my choice. You mean if I keep that mine, I'll have to quit? You won't fire me?  So it isn't my choice. It's yours. If I don't do what you say, you'll fire me. Make a choice. I haven't made a choice since I went to work for you. You've made them all. And last night, you got Jenny to where she was doing the same thing. Promise me this. Promise me that. Jim. What kind of promises do I ask from you? Just that you'll marry me and love me and be Jenny's sights. That's who I'm in love with. Not who you could be. Where are you going? Home, I'm tired. Then you're going to keep on with the uranium? Yes. And if I get another idea six months from now, that looks good. I'll use my weekends to work on that, too. Good night. No, here, here along this draw, Mrs. Sights. You see there in the map? Oh, yes. Of the three claims, I think that's our best prospect. Don't you, Jim? That third claim, that looks like the hottest. Oh, yeah. Yeah, yeah, Phil, it does. Oh, son, why don't you turn in? You're tired. I don't know. I guess I really fixed myself up with Jenny tonight. You did what you thought was right, speaking up to Mr. Kerns. Yeah, but I'm still in love with his daughter. Well, Jim, you can't go on resenting people. I'll get it. Good evening, Helen. Helen, is Jim still up, Mrs. Sights? Why, yes, Jenny, come in. We know it's late. Oh, I know.  Who is it, Mom? It's Jenny and Mr. Kerns. Hello, Jim. Hi, honey. Mr. Kerns? Jim? Oh, excuse me. You haven't met Mr. Sawyer, Jim's partner. Well, how do you do? Mr. Kerns. It's a pleasure. And his daughter, Jenny. How do you do? Very well, indeed. Thank you, ma'am. Mr. Sawyer was just showing me on this map. The places where he and Jim staked out their claims today are always fascinating. They climbed for miles to find this last one. Yes, and I was just saying it looks like the best. Could I see the map, please? Why, sure. You see, there's a lot more to this than just racing around the countryside. I've been 20 years studying these outcropons in this particular place always had a kind of fascination for me. Mr. Sawyer says it's an unusual formation. Oh, is that right? Yeah, but if it weren't for that signalizer at Jimmy's, I'd probably have given it up. You mean you saw Jim had one of those devices and you decided to team up with him? Well, no. In fact, it was the other way around. I generally fight shy of tender feet, but Jim, he came up to me this morning at the AEC office and said he had heard I knew my way around the hills and would I like to take on a stockholder? Kind of like an old established firm, he said, selling a few outside shares. And you agreed? Well, I figured if he had both the nerve to risk some money and sense enough to hedge his bet, he might just make a smart partner. So I took him on. And he's going to come up and help you on weekends? That's right. I'll mine for samples Monday through Friday and we can cart him down on Saturday. I see. Well, after all, it's just time you'd use for playing golf or mowing the lawn. I mean, do you think you've found anything valuable? Not bad. Well, I'm just asking. Mr. Curran, you should know better than to expect an optimistic answer to a question like that. Well, I'm wondering if you've got enough capital to get this thing off the ground or rather out of the ground. I'm not saying we couldn't use an extra hand. You mean digging? Well, that's all you get everything worth having, isn't it? Through hard work. Well, yes. Then let me show you here on the map. What about the map? Well, this is that third claim. How I figure if we had your station wagon, we could take this road here. Oh, the truck would be a lot better. We'll use the truck. All right. Well, then Saturday morning, we take the truck out of the road from Santa Rosa. We start at the hills. This is Joan Leslie again. In the 126th Psalm of David, we read, unless the Lord build the house, they labor in vain that build it. Unless the Lord keep the city, he watcheth in vain who keepeth it. And I think this applies not only to the house, but to the home and not merely to the city, but to the family. Because it's no mere platitude. There's too much human experience to back it up that the family which is grounded in family prayer, daily family prayer, with as many members as possible, is pretty certain to be a happy family. And I don't mean necessarily in this world's goods. They may be poor. They may know bereavement or heartache, sickness or anxiety, but way down deep beneath the troubles of life and the raging of its storms, there will remain a great peace, a kind of inner tranquility, and a mutual love and support. And I think we can be sure that this is no imaginary thing, a trick of psychology, but a genuine and often a very obvious result of having recourse to one who is real, to one who is loving and infinitely lovable, our Heavenly Father. That is why family theater urges its listeners to establish in their own families the practice of daily family prayer. Family theater knows that the family that prays together stays together.  From Hollywood, Family Theater has brought you transcribed The Rainbow Chaser, starring Marshall Thompson. Joan Leslie was your hostess. Others in the cast were Fred Shields, Robert Emlin, Joyce McCluskey, and Margaret Brayton. The script was written by John T. Kelly and was directed for Family Theater by Robert Hewill Sullivan, with music composed and conducted by Harry Zimmerman. This series of Family Theater broadcasts is made possible by the thousands of you who feel the need for this type of program, by the mutual network which has responded to this need, and by the hundreds of stars of stage, screen, and radio who give so unselfishly of their time and talent to appear on our Family Theater stage.  This is Tony Lafranco expressing the wish of Family Theater that the blessing of God may be upon you and your home, and inviting you to be with us next week when Family Theater will present The Kiddy Story Story, starring Nancy Gates and Robert Rockwell. Join us, won't you? Family Theater has broadcast throughout the world and originates in the Hollywood studios of the world's largest network. This is Mutual, the network for all America.


I'm going to introduce Matt. Matt is the Head of International Trade Unit with EY. He has been here in the IEA before in 2014 and we were reflecting on how different times are from 2014, such a short time ago. Matt is, as I said, the current Head of International Trade at EY, following his previous role as a Special Advisor to Prime Minister Cameron, and he was appointed opposition in 2015. In this role he advocated David Cameron's EU reform program and the UK's EU membership prior to the referendum in June of last year. He was previously Director of Open Europe, another think tank which promotes ideas for political economic reform in Europe and he was instrumental in changing the organisation's focus from being a UK think tank opposing UK involvement and further EU integration to become a European think tank advocating liberal EU-wide reforms. I hope that's a fair description. You can interrogate all of these comments in a moment. He recruited a pan-EU staff, he also co-founded Open Europe Berlin. Matt is going to address us on the future EU-UK trade relations. Without any further ado, I'll hand over to you, Matt. Please interject, heckle, throw things at me, whatever you want to do. Whenever I do these Brexit talks, and I do quite a few of them, I tend to start off by telling the story from the nights of the referendum, the UK's referendum on the EU. June the 23rd last year, going into the early hours of June the 24th. I was in Downer Street that evening and I was watching the result coming in together with the Prime Minister at the time, David Cameron, George Osborne, the Chancellor at the time as well as various other advisers. There's a lot one can say about that, but the surprise now would perhaps say shock when one of the first results came in from Sunderland in Northern England. Sunderland of course is home to the Nissan factory, employing I think around 7,000 people in Sunderland, one of the biggest private employers in that region. 6 out of 10 cars produced in Sunderland I think are exported, many of them to the EU, free of tariffs, free of barriers, free of additional trade costs because of EU membership. Nissan had come out quite strongly in favour of a remain vote prior to the referendum. If you want the illustration for the importance to the UK, to UK local jobs and growth of EU membership then Sunderland was your key illustration. The result came in there when we sat in number 10, the BBC was reporting it shortly after midnight. Does anyone know what the result in Sunderland was? You get an extra gold star on EU flag if you do. So what was the result in Sunderland? Does anyone know? I was presenting to Disney the other day by the way or a few weeks ago now Disney you know the cartoon and so I was surrounded by fluffed animals and various things and they got this right so are you smarter than the fluffed animals that's the question. Anyone read your guess? You usually have sort of a bit more 61% in favour of leave of course. So you can hear a penny drop in number 10 down the street when that result came in and the reason I was telling that story is because I think that's what Brexit is right? It's something much more fundamental than the precise trading relationship between the UK and the EU. It's about social and political forces that are very prevalent in the UK but exist elsewhere as well so always keep that in mind when you think about Brexit. It's not only a narrow trade issue it's about something much much bigger and that is the challenge involved and Brexit is a big expression of that kind of forces that we're seeing across Western democracies but it's not only an expression. Right well of course I only told that story to credential myself and show that was a number 10 moving along. So I brought some pictures because I'm now at EUI and if you're at EUI or any of the big fours my colleague from KPMG will know you cannot do anything without some sort of powerpoint presentation. It's impossible I literally kind of move I have to show up to dinners with the powerpoint presentation in order to socialize. So there I brought some pictures. So this is just to recap on where we're at in the negotiations and what the time that looks like. You know I always like to conceptualize Brexit in three or four different phases. So as you know article 50 they own a legal way for a country to leave the European Union was triggered on in March this year and article 50 gives the UK and the EU exactly two years to negotiate the UK's exit from the EU and hopefully also a new trading arrangement. So two years from March 2017. Now the four phases I think involved here is so you have the negotiation phase which in turn is split into the negotiation over the withdrawal agreement and then the negotiations over the future trading relationship. So that's sort of two phases and then you move into post March 2019 a transition phase a very likely transition period in my view that can last anywhere between two to five years depending a bit on what the two parties want in the end and then post 2022 2023 2024 you have the new permanent arrangement between the two parties. So those are the Brexit phases and they matter tremendously for the conversations I have with businesses across sectors because this is what business plan around right so but these are the four phases. So we're already at the moment well we're very much in the first phase the discussions around the withdrawal agreement. So what the EU side has said is that in order to move on to the discussions around the future relationship we need to make significant progress on the withdrawal agreement. No one knows exactly what the significant progress means but the withdrawal agreement includes a divorce bill so how much the UK will pay up as a result of leaving the EU it includes the discussion around what will happen to UK citizens in the EU and EU citizens in the UK as well as some broader discussions which for example include the north-south border. The withdrawal agreement is incredibly important to watch what happens with that because it basically now will decide anything else that will follow right so if we can't make significant progress on that then we're in trouble. So but those are the four phases you will be familiar with this so I don't need to dwell on them. So in terms of dynamics involved in in brexit and particularly on the UK side I think it's it's it's useful to conceptualize this and I'm sorry if this becomes a bit UK centric but I think it's it's useful to conceptualize this in terms of a a five-way negotiations if you Theresa May you're effectively involved in a five-way negotiation at the moment and it's it's very important if you want to understand where brexit is going to understand all five of these different players and the interaction between them because I think that will very much decide what kind of arrangement will end up in the end within the end. So a five-way negotiation so so if you Theresa May at the moment you you have to deal with your own cabinet you have to deal with the UK Parliament you have to deal with the business community and the wide economic picture you have to deal with the devolved administrations and then of course the EU itself which is a hugely multifaceted and diverse player in its own right so those are the five players involved so let me just discuss a bit each of them in turn and where the latest is that with with the brexit negotiations so as you know we've had an election in the UK in June which resulted in a hung parliament in Theresa May losing a majority we've also had a number of developments over the summer which are really interesting to look at in terms of the future relationship so what are these developments well let's take the cabinet first so cabinet in the cabinet in the UK cabinet you at the moment have a bit of a standoff between what you can call this sort of liberal wing and not quite the nationalist wing because that's putting it a bit unkindly but but sort of the the kind of the liberal wing and the more kind of sort of UK centric wing if you will and that's a big standoff around issues like immigration in particular what has happened since the election is that within the UK cabinet the liberal wing the likes of Philip Hammond and this is no secret has massively increased its influence so in the cabinet in internal cabinet discussions there's now increased influence amongst those who want a liberal outward looking United Kingdom but anyway Theresa May is involved in a very tricky balancing act in keeping her own cabinet together that's that's sort of one two is the UK parliament Theresa May does not have a majority on her own which means that she has to rely on DUP for a supply agreement so DUP is not part of the government but they have pledged to support the UK government in parliament but she's also very vulnerable because even with DUP the minority is very small so so parliament the parliamentary dynamics is incredibly important because you are now going to have a number of Brexit bills going through parliament over the autumn and going into the new year which will be needed to facilitate Brexit if you start to lose on those then that becomes a difficult issue for what has happened in the last few weeks which is really interesting is that the opposition party the main opposition party Labour has sort of switched its position into contemplating the UK remaining a member of the single market and the customs union that is not yet game changing but it has the potential to be so if you Theresa May at the moment your biggest fear is that your your remainder MPs your pro remainder MPs start to side with Labour MPs and you lose your majority if you Europe you may look like that as an opportunity if you think that Britain should stay in the single market because that's the that's the route to the single market for the UK but that's so the parliamentary numbers going into this autumn will be absolutely crucial so that's the second big element the third one then is business the business community and this again particularly since the election in June has become a significantly more important voice there's a lot one can say about this I mean I do I you know speak to a lot of businesses across sectors and I think we sort of it's starting to hit home now that if you UK by business UK based business but also if you're an Irish based business you're going to be impacted by Brexit some there are some businesses that see opportunities I mean there's certain some Irish businesses who see opportunities and for Ireland there are of course some opportunities if business choose to relocate from the UK but as I always say for every one opportunity involved in Brexit I think the business community sees these 10 challenges I mean that's the relationship the ratio between opportunity to challenge so but the business community in the UK I think has become significantly more important over the last few months and what's really interesting to watch is if UK firms starts to signal that they will start to really push the button on relocating elsewhere because that becomes a quite big problem for the government and I think I would argue that the business community in the UK but perhaps also here in Ireland are entering a quite important five to six months window when they will have to make business decisions around you know operating models around where to be where to base their you know redistribution center for example if the UK ends up inside the customs union because of the lead times involved they will have to make a decision fairly soon so and and to see how the UK government will respond to that will be very important but I think it does matter that the business community has become more important I would say that increases the likelihood of a softer Brexit. Fourth area the fourth big player is the devolved administrations in the UK loads one can say about that but of course situation in Northern Ireland is very important here an interaction between that and Brexit will be very important to watch and finally the EU itself and you know there's a lot one can say about the EU negotiation position but you know what I will say is having actually been part of a team that has negotiated in Europe is that once the EU has agreed a common set of principles and processes principles and processes it's very difficult to go back and change those EU negotiations as many of you will know operate by principle and process and the EU has agreed a common set of principle and processes that they publish in the spring which in my view set the parameters for negotiations now there's plenty of flexibility and ambiguity in those principles and processes but there are some things that in my view still it's not possible so my view for example is that it's still not possible or I should be careful what I say but I have not seen any evidence of the EU being willing to accept a single market style arrangement for the UK but without full free movement of people you know what I'm talking about there is the idea of Britain now negotiating an emergency break on numbers which we sort of talked about many times before but that's never really happened it would be interesting to hear views in the room on this point but if you certainly if you labor the labor party in the UK this is one of the things that you perhaps will in the end try to gun for stay in the single market but with some sort of control mechanism on migration numbers from the UK because it's very difficult for the labor party to sell full free movement of people even for the labor part that's going to be difficult remember seven out of ten labor constituents that voted for leave and in large part because of free movement so so but to me the EU position does not accommodate for a single market without free movement the old thing that I've heard so many times and that you guys many of you repeat as well that the four freedoms come together or go together still hold true so obviously a very important discussion very keen to hear thoughts in the room on that so but those that is basically the five-way negotiations that Theresa May is facing and the interaction between the five here will be incredibly interesting to watch anyone who tells you that they know exactly how this is going to play out in the next several months is either lying and trying to say you something and you know because this is incredibly unpredictable having said that I will move to trying to predict what will end up so these are my scientifically proven probabilities because obviously I predicted Brexit I predicted Trump and I predicted that Theresa May will lose a majority like all of you did as well but these are my probabilities around roughly where we will end up in terms of a new trading relationship you will be familiar with these different post-Brexit models when people talk about post-Brexit arrangements they usually mention sort of four to six so the European economic area or single market membership the two are used interchangeably often that's the softest of soft Brexit the next in line the next one on the scale is membership of a some sort of customs union which means that you have no customs border between the UK and the EU but also means that the UK will not fully run its own trade policy then next in line is a more traditional free trade agreement you know a sort of a more comprehensive version of the trade agreement that exists between for example the EU and South Korea or the one that you know is soon coming into force between the EU and Canada and then finally you know this hardest Brexit will be a very limited deal or no deal at all which would mean that the UK and EU will trade in large part based on World Trade Organization rules I mean these are the post-Brexit models that people usually have in mind and so if you go down the line here and look at the probabilities and all of those controversially I still think it's very difficult to see how the UK remains an EU member in order for that to happen a number of things will have to happen which I've the path to the UK remaining member is set out here I do have a thing that can change quite quickly though because it's such a fluid environment and we can discuss how that might change but I think at the moment the thing to remember about whether Brexit can be stopped or not which a lot of people are getting excited about is that a number of political things and events have to materialize for that to happen that aren't imminent but it's not completely impossible equally for reasons I mentioned earlier around free movement I still think it's a rather slow probability of Britain remaining a member of the single market because of free movement that's the main issue there there's higher probability in my view of a customs union arrangement because that's something that labor is potentially pushing for is something that conservative MPs are contemplating it's also something they can probably do without free movement of people maybe depending on what the EU says but traditionally customs union arrangements have not come with free movement of people there's fine it's fine just identify yourself for the rest of the room if you don't mind it's based on the entirety of the treaties customs union is such the customs union is specified as removing tariffs so it will remove tariffs it won't remove customs border sorry for interrupting no no no it's a very important point so so and of course you're absolutely right so if you look at Turkey so Turkey has the c884 you still have to fill out they still have to have some rules of origin so you're absolutely right so if you if you follow the Turkish model then you'll definitely have a border I think what the UK government has in mind if they if they go for a customs arrangement it's something much much better than Turkey so because why would you why would you want to have the Turkey model you would have the border but without the ability to sign the free trade agreement so I think that's a really good clarification thank you but so there's a trend so but I still some sort of customs union arrangement certainly is is a higher probability there than than perhaps around single market for the reasons that we discussed the central probability to me though the most central scenario to me remains the free trade agreement because particularly because you know if you if you put together the UK's traditional red lines as well together with the the EU's principles and processes that they have agreed that's where you basically land on current evidence so the UK says it wants to end free movement it wants to end large-scale financial contributions it wants to end ECJ direct ECJ jurisdiction and it wants to run its own trade policy you cannot do that unless there's an FDA so so I think I think still that's that's where we are that can still be very comprehensive free trade agreement and we can discuss what that might look like but it can you know there's no reason why it shouldn't be more comprehensive than than for some of what the EU and Canada have I think you can have a substantially more comprehensive free trade agreement than what that agreement is but then of course on a less you know upbeat note I genuinely think there's still a real risk of there being no deal or only a withdrawal agreement that's something that is under discussed that you may leave only within withdrawal agreement which means that for a period of time you may end up with WTO I think it's inconceivable that WTO rules will be the permanent arrangement because of the huge implications that would involve but you know there is a risk and the main risk involved here is the main risk here is that the clock simply runs out because we have so little time left to agree everything that we need to do the main thing for me whenever we talk about Brexit is to try to now avoid confirmation bias right I mean you see so much confirmation bias on all sides Brexit is very likely to happen and we need to find a constructive way through and and so that's my plea in closing that it's easy to to be very negative about it but I think good ideas are definitely needed so please let's come up with some good ideas actually literally now let's all Brexit


It's how he's in the mood as always, and what's up with this dude? Hey! Get away from me! Yo, he is raging. Oh my God. What is wrong with that guy man? Patrick? Hey what's going on? Bro, he died! What? My man's just died on us. Prestige didn't react. Oh, this guy went to sleep on the ketchup. Seems fun. I should probably try that later. What? Yeah, that is totally not ketchup, bro He just died this guy. Oh, why is there a skull here?  Oh Mr.. Krabs Great the cruel bar Okay, now maybe we can use this to break out plankton in the cage Hey Oh my thank you for saving me. Let's go find a way out of this place. Come on plankton Wait, I'm supposed to leave the way Maybe through the vent Don't you fit in there? No It's probably trapped I wouldn't go in there.  What is wrong with SpongeBob?   Frank is live. I'm dead. Oh No Okay, love this Shrek What? Are they gonna fight? The ultimate battle It's a showdown Why does it look like that? I Got Shrek man. I'm sorry SpongeBob. This is a troll game, right? You got to see who the quickest drawer is No sudden movements. That's us. We're oh What? Bazooka cool class you got Dustin right there that Michael will All right. Okay. Okay and 11. Perfect. We got everybody in class Welcome class today. We have a new student her name is Maxine. Oh, they just got max in there Oh, dude, that looks exactly like her. That is crazy. It's just max That's crazy. How like he made it look exactly like the show. That's crazy Everybody looks exactly like them. Oh, they gave me the child. That sounds weird in the headphones Guys, let's play some D&D. No place on Dungeons and Dragons.  That's the only way That's cool. They could go through walls there. That's cool School that's the name of the school. Oh, we got one of the monsters Hey, dude, this is gonna sound pretty weird, but can I jump into your mouth, bro? Say yes Yum yum yum yum yum. I did look kind of good I'm gonna subscribe All right, so this one came out 2019 also So let's see if stranger things was the 80s anime. I love anime. So Go I cannot read that. I don't know what that means. Are they playing Dungeons and Dragons? Okay Oh, that looks that looks pretty good Yo, this would be sick I would definitely watch this I would definitely watch that hand Oh, the daddy really creeps himself Please How was that a puppet? Wait, I think this is her dad's room Chester come on we gotta go What's up with the dad's hair? I got those Travis Scott braids Dude, stop let him be Nah, bro. I think the dad needs more help than this. Come on anything Dude, he has no hand. What? He has no hand. Come on. Let's go Dude, no way now.  Dude, he knocked him out That boy out. He culled He's seeing stars by now That's where the real fun begins What the heck? Heck, that little baby get away from me. I don't trust you.  Just kick that thing, bro. Oh, there you Chunked him out. Done. What do you mean? This is screw milly. We are man I would have put him in the same thing I ain't gonna cap We escaped the house ran to her car and drove home Oh, wow It's not because of the whole boyfriend


With this, I'd now like to welcome our panelists on the stage of stream. We've got Minha Sazarika, the director of digital marketing games craft. We've got Nalind Dupia, the head of digital marketing optraw in. We've got Amit Kumar head user growth and retention hike. We've got Aalok Pandey VP sales and marketing the pads who's going to be the session chair. With this, I'd like to humbly welcome all our eminent panelists. Aalok, a great discussion I'm sure, which lies ahead and we're really excited to know the great comments coming in from our panelists. So Aalok, without any further time, we leave from our side over to you. Thank you so much, Bhavna. Thank you so much. Welcome all the panelists. I would like to welcome Minha's Nalind Nandamit, right? So yes, today's topic is, you know, future of real money gaming. And in the past two, three years, we have seen a tremendous phenomenal growth in this real money gaming sector, right? I mean, we can say during the pandemic and post-pandemic. So I would like to, you know, understand the perspective from a brand market point of view that what all strategies are being used and can be used in the future to engage and retain customers because retaining a customer is really, you know, tough in this competitive environment. So I would like to go fast with Nalind if you can, you know, want to bring your perspective out of it. So basically to retain the customers, you'll be like everybody, we usually have like basic strategies in place. Like we do like push notifications, SMS, emailers, calling systems, IVA systems and remarketing, right? So but the major retentions we get is basically like if your friends or something or your referrals are playing the game, right? So that's the major focus where we always focus on the referral segments, right? Where you refer to your friend and he'll be onboarded. Obviously the chances of you retaining on the game will be much more higher, right? So usually we focus on those kind of things. Apart from that, in real money gaming, usually the basic thing, which again, matter is a timely like precautions, the way users are depositing their money, whether that's safe or not, the way they are withdrawing the money, whether it's fast, it's safe. So these kinds of basic things which matters a lot while we retain the customers but the customers usually in R&D look out for these basic things, right? So apart from that, if you'll see, nowadays a lot of guys are actually going or more of the companies are actually going from the branding perspective as they're where they are like dealing up with the big actors, right? Usually that basically moves towards the user acquisition but that plays a major role in retaining a customer as your brand builds up. The customers have more trust in your brand and they usually retain more on your platforms, right? And but above all, what I would actually say is what matters the very much is like your experience, the onboarding experience, the gameplay experience, the uninterrupted gameplay which you are offering because if that's not, it will not work, right? So basically you have to have a proper gameplays and which keep on evolving. It's not that we have created once the gameplay it will be remain for every year, every month, you need to strategize, you need to rethink over that what's new coming into the market, what the customer needs are and based on those needs, just update your products and then focus on the retention. Rightly said, Nalim. So I would like to ask Minhaj that Nalim already mentioned that, you know, the gaming, the experience of gamers, right? And the trust factor, I mean, if they are, you know, adding up the money where the money is going, how the experience, I mean the user experience is talking about. Would you like to add something upon it?  Yeah. So we have to, actually, I would love to go a few step backwards and try to answer this thing question because retention and John has been a, say, critical question for everyone who is doing, say, user acquisition in the space, right? So I would say my, I strongly believe and there are a couple of pointers, a couple of factors that we need to look into it. So one is first and very critical as in how social fabric is knitted closely into the game, all right? Because we have seen, we have seen multiplayer games has more, say, around the fiber, around the five to six eggs, larger or so more time spent, time spent than single player games. So that's a social fabric, how it's closely as stated in the game. That's the one part of it. And the second part of the pricing work, then if you're, if you want to, if you want to, say, retain users, maybe say the user may, the user may win or lose, right? So keeping a such a kind of a price and say, if micro, micro-pricing in terms of the three rupees, you come into a game, a play a game of soludo or maybe say pool or something like that, starting a rupees three or the rupees five, right? So the user keeps on, keeps on continuing with the same game action. The pricing is obviously is one of the important factor. And another, another strong point is, say, how do we, so in order to retain a user for a longer period of time, how do we can create a sense of belongingness in the game? If I talk about sense of belongingness, then it would mean say, what regional flavors, what are the regional flavors that I'm putting into the game, right? Suppose for example, in India, so if you have to one of the popular casual game is ludo, the thing is ludo, basically. Ludo is something like, it's like people have gone crazy and the way they have, if you look at China, right? Out of the 20 games that have developed, out of 14, out of 20 games, they are locally developed, which has the regional flavors to it. So the people can connect to it, Mahajong. For example, taking Mahajong or something else, basically. It's like mostly, I would say, more regional flavor. So in India, this something obviously, we have to given a survey in the back, in some weeks back that I, in some report I read about. So people are interested to try out games which has the Indian flavor to read mythological characters or Indian themes. So another point which goes what my colleague Nalini has said, right? So creating a very safe ground for the players to come on board, deposit and play. You call it a fair play or call it as, say, anything which would provide a safer environment in terms of gameplay and experience for the user. Definitely the user would stick to that particular brand or to that particular game for a longer period of time, for sure. Right. Thanks, Minhas.  Which I, so I'll pick up the queue from there where Minhas dropped.  Yeah. Okay. Yeah, absolutely. I will agree with the point, all the point I mentioned by Minhas and Nalini. So I'll cover that too. I mean, so I will, I mean, explain the main three thing that we need to kind of keep in mind while, let's say, creating strategy for user retention. First of all, I mean, it's like Nalini mentioned, it starts from the day first, I mean, from the onboarding, right? So it depends on what sort of, I mean, seamless onboarding that you are providing to users, right? So, I mean, first thing, let's say, one is like, you mean, I mean, ensure, okay, so the great onboarding is there, like post that you need to ensure, okay. So you need to keep monitoring the user behavior within the game, post onboarding process, how their behavior is, what sort of a game that they are playing, what sort of a, let's say, blocker that they are fishing within the game. If they are any, you need to kind of work with the closely with your product team to kind of enhance that. Another thing is, let's say, if you need to keep monitoring users, let's say, move within the game, let's say, giving an example, I mean, so we have a call break, right? You need to keep monitoring, I mean, so what sort of a move that people are taking in the game? And let's say, if you are seeing that a particular user is taking a wrong move again and again, provide the input to the user to ensure, okay, so they are not taking these kind of move in future because if they will keep taking that sort of a move, it will impact, I mean, so the higher chance that user will get here now, right?  Next is, I mean, so, see people, I mean, when the people download game, they come for, let's say, some entertainment. So you need to ensure, I mean, what sort of entertainment that user are getting from it? Let's say, if there is a Ludo, if there's a normal game that is happening again and again, I mean, people get bored at one point of time, right? You need to ensure what sort of, I mean, let's say, entertaining thing that they are getting, let's say, being at, let's say, some sort of a feature, are you adding some sort of a feature within the game? These, let's say, is there any sort of a customized, let's say, leaderboard happening so that user engage within the game and they will keep playing? Similarly, let's say, is there any custom sort of a tournament is there for user to kind of come and play again and again? So these sort of a thing that you need to keep introducing within your game to keep the user engaged with your game, right? And then last thing is a personalization part that mentioned by Minas, like you need to kind of think about the user on personalization, being at, let's say, within the communication that you are sending out to user, or let's say, what sort of a communication that user is seeing within the product. So personalization is most important thing. I mean, let's say, start from, let's say, what sort of experience that user is seeing on a game to, let's say, what sort of communication that they are getting even out of the product also. So yeah. Yes, so I mean, yes, I mean, there's multiple strategies we can use.  Now, so jumping on the innovation and technological advancement because these are the factors that are playing a significant role in creating this gaming ecosystem. And with the gaming sector being one of the, you know, fastest growing sectors. And we have seen that it has outpaced many spaces in this particular ecosystem. So how will, you know, Metaverse affect this real money gaming? And do you guys really think that this, the parallel digital life will enhance the gameplay? So I would like to, you know, go fast with Minhaas, your point of view around this Metaverse effect. Yes, Alok, I was, I was, I was expecting this question to come in because Metaverse being there all over the internet. Yeah, being the first one I would say. So definitely I would say, right? Because Metaverse, you have to say, isn't it just like a Pandora box, right? So still in a nascent stage, right? This entire space is quite promising. And say, for example, right? Any, any of the game to success, right? So any of the game to succeed in the market, right? Social element or social layering has to be there, right? Now, kind of you think of, you think of a Metaverse, right? If you're talking about promise of gaming brand and a Metaverse, think of it as putting a five year old kid into a chocolate factory, right? So it's like immense, right? Opportunities in terms of, say, in terms of, in terms of, say, opportunities and the flexibilities and the kind of, say, ecosystem, a particular game needs to succeed, right? If everything is there, right? We'd say it's a play to earn kind of things coming into the picture with a smart contract, with a micro transactions. Now, the real money game, I'm pretty sure we'll see a definitely a very, a huge change in years to come, actually. And it's not about limiting yourself to one game in the Metaverse world, right?  And you are taking a part of it with you, right? With non-fungible tokens and stuff, right? So you are taking a part out of the game which you can use in another, say, another pit stop within Metaverse. So this is like, we are exploring a, a total different realm, I would say, due to the total different realm for, say, real money gaming for years to come, for sure.  So Minhaas is very much excited about it, you know, because how you think this Metaverse is going to change? So basically, to understand Metaverse, what is Metaverse? Metaverse is basically like a parallel world altogether, right? So if you'll see about gaming, a kind of social elements are already presented to the gaming, right? Like, and if you'll change shooting games or even in some games like poker, even in our game like octopoker, we have autos. We have already have the skins available, right? So in Metaverse, what is there? That these elements are already there. But we are looking forward to convert these things into the NFTs, the non-fungible tokens, right? The only thing is with the non-fungible tokens, it's like they need to be unique, right? They cannot be copied or they cannot be transferred to anywhere else, like Bitcoins and all those things, right? So this is something where everyone is light on looking forward about how to convert or how to create these NFTs. And when you are working in the Metaverse, it's always essential that once you own the NFT, because you need to own the NFT, unlike Cryptocurrency or something, you, any user or any player has to own the NFT. So once the NFT is being owned, how much and how they can carry those NFTs into the other games or other worlds? Is there limitations to the single game? It can be used only to the only one game where they have purchased that NFT with the cryptos, right? Again, the Metaverse always opens a room for other payment methods like cryptos and everything else, right? Right now, we have even heard that few guys have actually, that co-founder has actually converted his tweet into NFTs and guys have actually purchased that, right? So these are some things you can physically convert anything to the NFTs when it comes to Metaverse, right? And can sell it out in terms of crypto, maybe in terms of gameplay, maybe in terms of time you are spending on the platform, there are multiple ways. So now everyone is moving towards play-to-games kind of play-to-earn kind of games and obviously the real money is no different. So in real money, again, if we look out for the futures, if we create avatars, if we create certain NFTs, then it opens a way for our crypto investors, it opens a way for the gamers to earn money out of the games even a lot more. And yeah, it's a whole new world. It opens a whole new world. So, yeah. Yes, so Amit, I mean, as Naleen and Minhaaz has already mentioned, right? They are seeing a lot of, you know, gameplays and enhancement in the RMG with Metaverse. Not talking about the nitty-gritty and technologically, since we all are the brand market ideas. And from the marketing perspective, how you think it's going to help us in getting more, you know, entertainment-centric RMG? Okay, so see, like Naleen and Minhaaz mentioned the importance of Metaverse and especially in gaming. So we know, I mean, this is the new world, right? So the new world of internet, right? So, and then the beauty of Metaverse is it enables us to kind of use the collectibles, things like NFTs and other things, right? So, and at hike, I think in this month only, we launched our first NFT to attract the users. So this is called, I mean, Rush Avatar that we launched as a NFT and let's say as a user asset for a user identity for our, let's say, as users. Where, I mean, I mean, we have a different sort of layers in this Rush Avatar that people can, let's say, leverage it during the gameplay. And how this is to answer your question, how this is helping us to, even we have already seen the good move in terms of, I mean, attracting the new users to kind of come and try the games. So yeah, that is helping us a lot, I mean, in terms of, I mean, retaining the user and then attracting the new set of a user to come on board and try out. Fine. So, yes, I do agree. I mean, the Nalain Minhaaz and Amit regarding this Metaverse and it's going to enhance the gameplay, obviously. Let's hope for it, right? And how soon we are going to see the, this Metaverse effect on our RNG ecosystem, especially in India. So now coming to this, competitive RNG ecosystem which we have seen in the past two, three years, this is the biggest challenge, I guess, from a brand perspective or brand market here, to cater the consumer needs, which keeps on changing, because sensations keeps on coming within a fortnight. You can expect the new technological advancement and new games coming up every month. So how are game owners going to cater the consumer needs in this fast moving competitive market, right? I would like to start with Amit, to, you know, I would love to know your perspective that how the game owners is catering to the needs, I mean, the fast moving needs. Okay, so again, I'll give an example of our organization. So we always keep a user at a center while developing any sort of a feature, let's say future needs. So we always focus, I mean, the what sort of a need that user has. And we always keep in mind, I mean, so let's say what sort of a future need can be for a user. So while developing any kind of a new feature, we keep the user need in place. And we do, I mean, regular research around the users, okay, what sort of a new thing that they are exploring and then kind of try to kind of build some feature around that. And always doing a regular sort of a research around how they are liking it, what sort of a new thing that they want to kind of see in the product and always, I mean, whenever we reach out to our product team, we come up with the list of thing that people, I mean, our existing user is already consuming and what sort of a they ask that they want to see in the product. And yeah, so we discussed with the product team and ensure that those sort of the requirement get catered within the product. So yeah. Yes.  And to retain a customer is really, really tough from a brand market point of view. So what do you think, I mean, how do you cater the needs of the consumer which keeps on changing because they do have multiple options in the market? So this problem is going to stay actually, right? Given the growth trajectory that we are in, say from $1.8 billion to around $6 billion, whatever, by 24, 25. So this problem is going to stay for sure. Now the thing is consider the churn or the player fatigue is very high in casual and hyper casual kind of a game segment, all right? And this is because the games within the casual and hyper casual category are very repetitive, right? It depends upon the user, right? Why the user is coming onto a particular, say, hyper casual or casual game to try out his skill, basically. So generally it says, okay, if it's there to say this thing socialize or if it's there to say thrill, basically, right? Now, if the user or the player keeps on repeating or doing the similar task or similar steps within the game itself, there's a high chances that the user will churn for sure, right? So now, so this is very, so the thing is, so that's the reason. So in India though, if you're talking about RMG as a space, right? So card games has been there for some time now. And fantasy sport has done, I would say more than enough, more than more than decent work in the last couple of years, right? Now, going forward is the time for casual and hyper casual kind of a segment, which says it would grow by another, say 30% by 2024 and 2025. Now, keeping a sense, keeping an understanding with the user as to what kind of game they're interested in, say within the game, that's totally dependent upon how you are making their game plays or not, I would say game plays, but the kind of time they're spending on that particular game as in longer, right? If you're able to succeed to do that, right? The user, not only it will stick to you, not the user will stick to that particular game, not to the brand, but also it would give you enough long window to monetize that user, put the user as well as the game, basically. So yeah, so that is something that is something that is something would happen. Like what I have said in my previous answer, the thing is we need to build games which has reasonable favors to it, reasonable favors so that people can easily connect to it actually. Okay, okay. So Nallin, I mean, what Amit and Minhaaz has already mentioned, right, that to retain a customer, it is a challenge from a brand perspective, right? So user experience is one, which we need to improve to retain the customers. But how do you think? Because they do have multiple options in the market, right? And also keep coming with new technological advancement with new features. So what are your thoughts on it? How to retain customers? We have heard one line from along, right? Change is the only constant. So everything need to be updated with time. So so do the games, right? So that's actually the fact, right? So now how we can do that actually? So if we are seeing that the game is changing, the market is changing, so here the game, your game community and your customer support actually plays a major role. To let you understand what actually your customer needs are, what they are looking out for, why? If there are a certain customers which are with you from a longer, longer time, now they are not playing your game, then you need to first know that why they are not playing. What are the other games offering? What actually they are looking out for? These are the basic understandings once you have from the consumer's perspective, right? You can then improve your game, that what are the things which need to be added into the game, right? So again, it comes to the same thing, same question against how to retain the customers, because change, things will come up, right? New games will be there, new sensations will come around every day. It's just that what is the best thing you can take out of from these new things which is not already there in your game, implement that so that your customers can actually get the same thing within your games as well, right?  Okay, so while talking about the technology since we are running out of time, so we need to be quick on this because I personally was very much interested to understand the importance of AI in RMG, right? So artificial intelligence. So what do you guys think? I mean, how it has improved since 2019 and what the future is gonna be of RMG with AI, right? So I would love to understand the perspective of Nalini first that how is AI in RMG improved since 2019 and what can we expect in 2022 and beyond, right? In the real money gaming sector, right? So AI has been already used into the RMG specifically for the privacy and security purposes, right? We have like secure account and hackings and frauds. We always use AI to protect users' privacy which is like a very much important part, right? Apart from that, again, the cheatings and the frauds are something which they're always there in the past. But now what we have seen in the past or in the, what we can optimize on is customized user experiences, right? So whatever user inputs are, what they are playing, how they are playing, which particular game they like, which kind of purchases usually they made, right? These everything goes into AI's and based on those you offer certain things, you offer them, you show them certain things, pop-ups. So these are all UI bits. Apart from that, to retain the customers, there is a proper matchmaking, right? The AI helps you in always in the proper matchmaking, how the matchmaking is happening into your game, right? So this again comes into the AI's component. So AI helps you out in all those things, right? In future, obviously, I am assuming that chat boards and the support services will again go into the AI system where they can actually understand previous needs of the customers and can enhance the chat boards accordingly with the AI. Right, so I mean, Minha and Amit, since we are running out of time, so I just want to wrap up the session with a quick note that yes, RMG, we are seeing a lot of growth in the coming future, right? And being the biggest revenue generator and advertising spender, we can see a lot of growth in the sector. And thanks for coming, Amit. Thanks for giving your time on a Friday evening, right? Thank you so much, Amit, Nalini and Minhaj. That's all, I'll ask Bhavna. Thank you so much, Alok. I was really intrigued with the entire discussion and we were just having a conversation in the back end that we're so privileged and honored to have Vola Eminence speakers because every topic is giving us a great insight into something which could become huge and which is of course already huge in the industry. Kudos to all the men leading it from the front and we wish you all the very best and we hope to see you in further conversations ahead. Thank you so much. Thank you so much. Thank you, Bhavna. Thank you for your valuable time.