Therefore though it is now time for member statements and I recognize the member from Toronto St. Paul's. Thank you Speaker. I'd first like to start by thanking all of our nurses in St. Paul's and across Ontario it is National Nurses Week and I want to thank all of you for working so hard under unbelievable circumstances even before COVID but certainly now during COVID considering how understaffed and under resourced our healthcare system is courtesy of this government. I might also want to say yesterday I lost a loved one a very dear friend of mine to COVID. I had known her since I was 14 years old. She would often speak about how proud she was of me but I was even that much more proud of her because she was a mother and now her kids lost their mother. So I just want to remind everyone that's watching today please wear your mask, double mask, socially distance, stay at home. There's no hairstyle or haircut or party or dinner or even a hug. I haven't hugged my mother in forever. There's no hug that's worthy losing your life and please when your time for a vaccine comes get it. The federal and provincial government yes they have made mistakes and we know that but when you have a chance to get your vaccine please get your vaccine. It will help save your life. Thank you and to my dear friend. I didn't even know you were sick. I love you and I will miss you. Thank you. Thank you very much. Further member statements? A member from Whitby. Well thank you Speaker. The government has listened to fire services across the province and recognizes the impact COVID-19 has had on their operations and response speaker five million dollars has been allocated to fire departments like the town of Whitby to respond to the local impacts of COVID-19. Speaker Whitby's fire chief Dave Speed said recently that the COVID-19 pandemic has changed the way they conduct fire safety inspections and firefight training. This funding from the province will be used to help Whitby's fire and emergency services department further develop new ways of providing services to the public as they continue to creatively adapt to our new normal. Speaker I and the other members of my caucus remain committed to supporting materials fire services and recognizing our heroic first responders for their dedication and commitment and protecting hardworking families in the town of Whitby and other parts of the region of Durham. Thank you Speaker. Thank you. Member statements. The member for Michigan walk James Bay. Thank you Mr. President. Thank you Mr. Speaker. I'm honored to talk today to share the concerns of my of the people of my writing. We love nature and we love all the advantages of nature. They enter the ban on camping on camping activities and to have access to entertaining activities like golfing is very difficult for them. We understand it's not easy to deal with the pandemic but we need support. We need the government to show at their the reasons behind their decisions. If it's about physical distancing we have space in our writing. Our golf courses are very large and can be used in all in all security. We believe that we can apply all the public health measures. So we ask the government to review their decisions. Member statements. The member for Perry's on the scope. Thank you Mr. Speaker. I rise today to celebrate an important anniversary in my writing. 50 years ago in March Kimberly Clark opened its mill in Huntsville under the supervision of mill manager Douglas Millican. Doug began working for Kimberly Clark in 1969 to oversee the construction and state as mill manager until 1978. Now in his 90s Doug still lives in Huntsville and attended the drive through celebration of the mill's 50th anniversary. Kimberly Clark makes products we are all very familiar with including cotton out toilet paper, Kleenex tissue, Huggies diapers, Scott paper towels and more. The facility ensures none of the solid waste from its manufacturing process goes into landfill using as much possible onsite while a small amount is used in an offsite waste to energy operation. As well the mill has an onsite water treatment system that replace recycles 80% of the water used in the manufacturing process. Over the past half century Kimberly Clark has made a huge contribution to the town of Huntsville sponsoring all kinds of local organizations and events like the table soup kitchen, Huntsville minor hockey and the paddle for Fairburn fundraiser. Casey also sponsors the Huntsville high school robotics team and offers scholarships to local students going to post secondary education. Congratulations to everyone who has worked at Kimberly Clark over those 50 years from the first plant manager Douglas Millican to the 230 current staff led by manager Joe Welsh. Thank you. Thank you very much. Member statements and member for nickel belt. Thank you speaker. Today is May 12th. It is the International Awareness Day for myalgic and cephalomyelitis chronic fatigue syndrome, fibromyalgia, environmental sensitivity and multiple chemical sensitivity. The myalgic and cephalomyelitis association of Ontario, better known as Meow, is a registered Ontario charity which support and represent people living with any one of these conditions. Meow had had several awareness day event here at Queen's Park to mark International Awareness Day and since we are in the middle of a global pandemic, Meow is holding an awareness webinar today to mark the day. Since 2013 they had advocated for changes to the healthcare system to better support people living with these medical conditions. In 2016 the Ministry of Health announced a task force on environmental health which delivered its final report back in December 2018. The final report contained concrete recommendations to improve care for the patient afflicted with their medical conditions. In early 2020 the Minister of Health mandated public health to prepare and submit an action plan with regard to the recommendations set out in the task force final report. So here we are in May of 2021 with very little has changed so I heard the Minister of Health to publicly release the action plan, implement and fund the recommendation of the plan, make sure that care is available now and to specify the location where the care will be available. Thank you Speaker. Thank you very much. Member statements, the member for Orlean. Good morning Mr. Speaker. Working families know the struggle between being able to afford childcare so both parents can go to work and pursue their dreams or having someone stay home most often the mother in order to take care of their precious gift. It's time Mr. Speaker that this choice not be based on economics. For far too long the expense of childcare has caused families to struggle and it's taken enormous numbers of women out of the workforce and it's women who have been hit hardest during the pandemic as well Mr. Speaker and analysis by RBC shows that working-age Canadian women are leaving the workforce at a rate 10 times higher than men. Recently the federal government unveiled a new national child care plan to partner with provinces to make childcare more affordable for families. Unfortunately here in Ontario the response from the government has been anything but enthusiastic. Ontario needs a robust and affordable child care plan. With licensed child care at $10 a day Ontario families could save $10,000 a year for every child but it's not only relief for parents it's also about improving the economy. Increasing women's workforce participation has the potential to grow the economy by $7 billion a year and every every dollar invested in child care will return $2 and 50 cents. It's time for this government to get behind affordable child care Mr. Speaker it's not time for blusters or fights with their political rivals families need help our economy needs and wants moms to be successful it's time for the government to get on board with affordable child care thank you. Thank you the next member statement the member for Kitchener Conestoga. Thank you very much and good morning Speaker this has been a very special week for me school bus operators safety advocates and all other stakeholders that I've worked with stakeholders that I've worked with over the past year. Last Thursday my private members billed the safer school buses act past third reading with unanimous support of the chamber. Speaker Ontario is the only place in North America where you will find school buses with an eight lamp all red warning system. As the house has heard me say repeatedly every other province in state uses the dual amber red system. It may be only a different color of light but based on data from other jurisdictions and studies done by Transport Canada we know it will make the 18,000 school buses on our roads safer. You can think about it like a stoplight Mr. Speaker drivers would know to proceed with caution when the amber lights are flashing and when those lights turn red there is absolutely a 100 chance that there could be a student getting off or on that bus and that driver must stop when they see those red lights. I want to thank my colleagues for supporting this long overdue common sense change and to everyone across the province who has vocalized their support and this would not have been possible without you. As the father of five child safety is always something that is very important to me and I can't wait for the first day of school in September 2022 to see the buses pulling up with amber lights and knowing that I was part of making the 800,000 students who take the bus every day here in Ontario just a little bit safer. Thank you. Thank you. Next we have the member for Brampton North. Thank you Mr. Speaker. It's an honor to rise and to speak on behalf of my constituents of Brampton North. Speaker last week I wrote a letter to the Minister of Finance requesting this government mandate lower auto insurance rates. I wrote a similar letter to the Premier in February but I've yet to hear back. I hope the minister is a little more open to working with me and the official opposition to reduce auto insurance premiums and make life more affordable for Ontarians. In my letter I went over the fact that in Ontario we pay some of the highest auto insurance rates in the country. Twice as much as our neighbours in Quebec pay on average. My constituents of Brampton North pay the highest auto insurance premiums in the entire province. More than twice the provincial average. These expensive auto insurance premiums in Brampton are made worse by the fact that Brampton is one of the hardest hit cities by this pandemic. Bramptonians have seen some of the highest positivity rates and are struggling with financial implications of the pandemic. They urgently need relief on these excessively high auto insurance premiums. There are being fewer drivers and fewer accidents on the road during this pandemic. Insurance companies have raked in record profits but the drivers of Ontario have not seen any meaningful rebates. This is why the official opposition has been asking for months that this government implement a 50% decrease on auto insurance payments during this pandemic and allow payment deferrals for those who have lost their jobs in these times of economic uncertainty. I'm urging this government to work with me and the official opposition to provide relief on auto insurance rates for the people of Ontario and instead stop pointing fingers and deflecting blame. Thank you. Thank you. Member statements. The member for Sarnia Lampton. Thank you Speaker. It's an honour to rise today and inform the House of a tremendous opportunity available to the young men and women of our province with the tabling of the Building Opportunities and the Skilled Trades Act 2021 by the Minister of Labor Training and Skills Development. In my writing of Sarnia Lampton thousands of men and women already know that skilled trades training can open the door to a long, high paying successful career in the trades. Trades people build and maintain our hospitals, broadband, bridges and roads, energy infrastructure, our homes and so much more. But many skilled people, the trades people in Ontario will soon be retiring. Nearly one in three journey persons in Ontario with 55 years of age or older. Before the pandemic more than 200,000 jobs went on field every single day. Many of these jobs are in the skilled trades. In my writing of Sarnia Lampton where Ontario's petrochemical industry was focused, alluming's trade shortage in 2022 will present a serious challenge for the companies to compete the important maintenance work necessary to meet the province's energy needs. But if that challenge comes opportunity for too long, young people who have natural talent on the shop floor have been pushed into university lecture halls. Our government is committed to showing these young people that a career in the trades needs good paying jobs and exciting career paths that are in demand right now in our province. Mr. Speaker, I encourage all members of this House to push for swift passage of the building opportunities and the skilled trades act. Doing so will mean we're helping people to get back to work and meaningful careers right away. Thank you. Thank you very much. Member Statements, the member for Barry Innisville. Thank you Speaker. Hear that silence? Over the last 24 hours there has been no silence in the state of Israel. Instead there have been sirens warning people to seek shelter from the barrage of terrorist attacks. We are all disturbed by the scenes of violence on the Temp Mount Harim El-Sharif this weekend.  Israel immediately took action and de-escalated tensions in Jerusalem to restore calm. Hamas and Palestinian terrorist groups have instead continued to incite violent riots lynching and have fired more than 700 missiles at Israeli civilians. Cynagogues, schools are being burned, families attacked, innocent people are being injured and killed because Hamas murderous actions which once again endanger Israelis and Palestinians alike. I remember when I visited Israel and saw the shrapnel at schools and that should not be a reality for any child. Ontario and Israel enjoy strong long-standing cultural and economic ties built on strong foundation of shared values. The government of Canada must support our democratic friends and allies in Israel and their responsibility to defend its people from terrorist attacks. The Prime Minister must unequivocally condemn Hamas for perpetrating these tragic hostilities. Creating an equivalency between Israel, a democracy that wants peace and Hamas, a terrorist organization bent on destruction in Israel, enables terror and cost lives. The failure to speak up and clearly distinguish between those who want peace and those who want violence and death of civilians is morally reprehensible. I hope the Prime Minister stands up and condemns these attacks by Hamas and I pray for everyone in that region to be safe. Thank you very much. I beg to inform the House that the following document has been tabled, a special report entitled COVID-19 preparedness and management, special report on management of health related COVID-19 expenditures from the Office of the Auditor General of Ontario. As we all know there are literally hundreds of staff who work so very hard here at the Legislative Assembly without whom this place would come to a sudden abject halt. Today we pay tribute to one of them, Greg Diddiano, and we thank him for his service to the Assembly going back to 1988. 1988. That was before some of our current members were even born. As a key part of our broadcast and recording service, Greg has spent the last 33 years keeping a keen, watchful eye on the House proceedings, turning on your microphones when you stand up, and I might add when the speaker stands up, turning you off, operating from the crow's nest over there in the Speaker's Gallery or from the audio console in one of our committee rooms. Greg has been a steady and sure hand on the camera catching the image of hundreds of our distinguished Order of Ontario recipients in recent years, as well as the courage and valor of countless firefighters and police officers during their award ceremonies. For the past four years Greg has been a calming presence, training and supporting his staff colleagues, as the House has continued to sit in person, serving the people of Ontario, as all of us on both sides of the House were elected to do. This week, after more than three decades of steady no exemplary service, Greg is retiring. I'm told that Greg loves to go fishing and that he's a avid angler, but up until this point that elusive big one has always gotten away. Greg, you just caught it. Congratulations and we thank you and we wish you many, many years of happy and healthy retirement. Please join me in acknowledging the service of Greg Gordiano here at the Legislative Assembly. Thank you Greg.


Please come to order on a record This is a time and place set for the public participation hearing for the general rate case application of Pacific Gas and Electric Company PG knee application 1812009 Good afternoon. My name is Elaine. Now with me is Judge Rafael Lee rag. We are the assigned administrative law judges to this proceeding Before we start I'd like to Introduce what the Commission does for a little bit So the California Public Utilities Commission CPUC is a state agency that regulates privately owned Utilities like PG knee that provide essential services like natural gas and electricity There are five commissioners at the CPUC These five commissioners will be the people who vote and decide what is appropriate amount to approve for PG knee's application Our role as a assigned judges in this case is to review PG knee's application Based on the evidence and testimony set forth We write a proposed decision for the commissioners to consider The commissioners can either vote to adopt our proposed decision or set forth their own alternate decision What PG knee requested in this application is authority to increase its revenues by $1.058 billion in 2020 $454 million in 2021 and $486 million in 2022 Every three years PG knee files a general rate case application like this one The impact of this application if fully granted would increase an average residential residential customers monthly bill by 6 to 7% or $10 and 57 cents According to PG knee the major reasons for the requested increase are to fund PG knees well fire safety mitigations and liability insurance There is more information about PG knees application on a fact sheet that you can get from the public advisor's office table So currently there are many active parties in this proceeding. These include several consumer groups Community-based organizations city and county governments Unions and large user groups many of these groups oppose what PG knee is requesting Their participation in this proceeding can affect the amount of money the commission would authorize PG knee to collect So also, let me talk about what is the purpose of today's meeting The purpose of today's meeting is for us to listen to you We're here today to listen to your comments on PG knees application We want to hear about how PG knees application affect you your family your friends and your community Your comments will help the commission gather information to determine whether PG knees proposed increases are reasonable as of now Judge Lee judge Lee rag and I as well as the Assigned commissioner have received a lot of comments that the public had sent through our Commission's public advisors office So at the back of the room is the public advisors Office table if you have any questions regarding the commission our processes our processes Please do not hesitate to find them after after the meeting and ask them more questions Again, there's a fact sheet there also if you would like to speak today Please head towards that table and sign up to speak Also, I think I believe in that general area is also a table man by PG knee PG knee sent a couple customer service representatives that you may find after the meeting if you have any questions regarding your Electric or gas bill? so Before we start I'd like to go over some ground rules So we'd like to hear from everyone that wishes to speak so as a courtesy to others Please refrain from calling out or interrupting any speaker Please direct any comments to us and not to PG knee. We'd like to hear from you and At this moment, I'd like to remind everyone to make sure their cell phone is on silent Also, you notice in the front of the room. We have some court reporters here today They are here to document your comments into the record. That's why it's very important when you head towards the podium that you speak slowly and Facing us so that the court reporter can fully capture your comments. They will provide a transcript of today's meeting That will capture all your comments That transcript that transcript will be available to all five commissioners and the public on our commission's website At this time we'd like to have a couple presentations. One is from PG knee Good afternoon Judge Lee raggan and judge lau. Thank you so much for being here today and welcome and thank you everyone for attending today's public participation hearing on PG knee's 2020 general rate case proposal My name is herman g hernandez and i've been an employee at PG knee For 13 months and as the team leader for this part of our service area. I'm your local public affairs representative for lake insinoma counties This is one of 17 hearings being hosted by the cpc throughout our 70 000 Square mile service area At each location representatives from PG knee will be available to assist customers with their questions We have representatives here today who can help track down Information you need related to this specific proceeding located here in the back For customers who are participating remotely and have a question about their service or bill They should call PG knee's 1 800 number, which is 1 800 7 4 3 5 0 0 0 Your feedback your feedback in this process is crucial Because the application outlines a series of critical Safety investments to help address the state's growing wildfire threat and further protect The 16 million people that we serve That's what makes these hearings very significant. It's very important to note that this process is one of many Forums that the cpc provides for customer input on the grc And other regulatory filings I want to thank the commissioners uh judge lee rag and judge lau for this opportunity To learn more from our customers and in closing I just want to introduce our executive vice president john simon who's going to share a few words. Thank you very much Good afternoon everyone Thank you for being here today Uh On a beautiful summer day. Thank you very much judge lee rag and judge lau for giving us This opportunity to contribute and learn from these public participation hearings And to really give us a chance to hear As judge lau you emphasized from our customers We look forward to doing that today My name is herman mentioned is john simon I've worked at PG knee since 2007. I've had a number of different jobs Currently, I oversee the law and public affairs related functions for the company Part of my job is to support PG knee's most important responsibility Which is the safety of our customers and our communities One way we achieve that is through our general raid case proposal Which outlines our plans to upgrade technology and infrastructure to further strengthen our ability to meet our customers needs and provide safe and reliable energy Our proposal will help further strengthen wildfire prevention risk monitoring and emergency response And will also add new and enhanced safety measures increase vegetation management and further harden our electric system to increase resiliency To help further reduce wildfire risk among other projects Under the proposal judge lau as you mentioned We are requesting about 1.1 billion increase over our currently adopted revenues in the first year More than half of the proposed increase Would be directly related to wildfire prevention risk reduction and additional safety enhancements if approved by the cpu c If approved it would increase a typical residential customers bill as you mentioned judge by about 6.4 percent or $10 and 57 cents per month Of the $10 and 57 cents $8 and 73 cents per month for electricity and $1 and 84 cents per month for natural gas service While it is important to share with everyone where our customer money is going It's also important for us to share where this money would not be spent While the GRC proposal will help fund a series of important safety investments It does not request funding for pgne corporation or utility officer compensation That means it doesn't go to my pay or any of my colleagues pay The proposal also does not request funding for potential wildfire claims involved in our chapter 11 bankruptcy proceeding The GRC proposal here is a significant request and we realize it comes at a difficult time Our commitment is to keep customer costs as low as possible While meeting our responsibilities to safely serve all of our customers Even as our changing climate presents significant new challenges and risks This funding proposal is subject to the cpu sees thorough open and transparent review and approval process which is why we're here today We encourage our customers to provide feedback and participate in this public process that will help shape customer rates In the coming years. Thank you very much for your time Are there any other parties that would like to make a presentation? Hearing none, let's move on to hearing from you guys our speakers. So I'm going to read off a couple names at a time Three speakers name at a time in the order that they will speak If you hear your name being called, please be ready to Head to the podium and be ready to speak So and also please limit your comments to around five minutes The first three speakers are Paul Feinstein Will Abrams and Gina Dawson So mr. Feinstein, would you make your way to the podium? Thank you And Feinstein is spelled f e i n s t e i n is that correct? That's correct. Thank you You may go. Thank you. Okay Thank you for this opportunity My name is paul feinstein. I'm a retired scientist who lives locally and have been following pgne and general uh sustainable energy issues for many years uh I understand that the context of this Uh review is for increases In rates, but I'd like to put a slightly different perspective on that and that is the general rate that we Prevailing rate that we live with That has gone up enormously in the last six to eight years In addition to the well publicized problems related to fire and gas safety We should not lose sight of the basic unfairness of our electric utility rates The national average for electrical rates is approximately eight cents a kilowatt hour Even in the east coast states that experience significant maintenance issues like ice storms in the winter They are able to maintain through diversified energy sources a fairly steady low electric utility rate Californians are currently paying about 24 cents a kilowatt hour three times the national average Now I have heard many politicians Impudence blame this Or attribute it to California's insistence on having green energy sources. However when you look at the spread of states that incorporate Green energy we are that is california is only in the mean of those states New york state for example That has significantly more green energy as part of its mix and utility energy Still is able and has for many years Charged eight cents a kilowatt hour There are many people who simply cannot afford these rates And probably aren't even aware when they look at their bill what they're paying in a warming climate Where air conditioning will become a necessity This will soon be a major health issue anyone looking at the heat wave that went around This country in europe last week Uh should be well aware of that The simple truth is that the high utility rates that have increased to my knowledge zero base Rationalization of the electrical utility rates every time The utility requests a rate increase. It's simply on top Of the existing rate In addition to the basic rate issue over the years I've uncovered many instances of rate fraud which I have sent to the cpuc These complaints are simply handed over to utility with no follow-up pg&e is both judge and jury More than happy to go over instances in detail of these In most cases they're They're small Errors perhaps not intentional but in some cases they are intentional Especially directed towards solar customers When I finally in in one egregious case was able to get to a pg&e manager who admitted to these systematic errors No refunds were Going to be offered to the customer. They would they said that they would simply change the rate structure So the problem was effectively washed away I hope that in the process of evaluating the bank Proceeding was that a thorough audit be made of the billing practices and rate assumptions approved by the cpuc And the cpuc be reorganized Fundamentally to prevent to provide better consumer protection Thank you Thank you. Mr. Feinstein next we have will abrams A B r a m s is that correct mr. Abrams. It is thank you So As was mentioned, my name is will abrams. I'm a wildfire survivor live here locally in santa rosa um myself and my Family ran from the wildfires in uh, october of 2017 and these issues are very personal to me And um, you know, I think there are a number of issues associated with what's being proposed One, I think is that it's totally disconnected. I think in terms of how it's been presented From the realities on the ground in terms of people struggling to rebuild their homes In terms of how this connects to us having insurance in the state As it relates to how we're going to be recovering in these times So I would say that there needs to be a little more connection in terms of how PG&E presents these to what the actual emotions are on the ground Certainly, I understand a pre-pragmatic approach to these issues has to be taken But I think particularly in these types of forms I would just advise that you come with a little more compassion for the issues for the folks on the ground Second of all as we're talking about these rates It seems in a stark contrast to how these things are positioned to investors Of PG&E. So when you go into an investor meeting, there's a lot of talk about things like return on investment And what investors can expect to see in the future and how How PG&E is going to recover from bad cryptcy and what's going to be on the other side Similarly for this as we're talking to ratepayers about taking on a large portion of this burden there needs to be some expectation about return and It isn't good enough to talk about these in general terms as has been described about Generally we're going to do a bunch of activities And we're going to trim trees and we're going to maintain lines and we're going to do those things That isn't sufficient in any corporation and why we're not being transparent With how those things are being put forward is beyond me So I would suggest that where you look at return on investment ROI for your investors You should be talking to the people the ratepayers about ROS Return on safety And that isn't a general thing that should be we're going to go out there and trim trees And we're going to increase things by 220 percent or we're going to do a lot of activities Because at the end of the day just like an ROI is a measure of results This needs to be too So this needs to be we're trimming these trees and you can expect a risk reduction of five percent associated with these activities Year over year you can expect a 15 percent reduction in risk So me and my family don't have to run from another wildfire Those are the types of things that need to be built into every Single thing that the cpuc looks at anytime is there's an ask for dollars There needs to be a question of what is the return on safety? We're past the point of trust us. We've got this. We know what we're doing That has been said over and over again And downplaying the intelligence of consumers and your ratepayers by saying oh, this is just too complicated We can't really get into the details of what we're doing But trust us all of these activities mean safety for you We're well past that we need this to be quantified There needs to be a scorecard that indicates how you're progressing towards safety not on activities I could care less about exactly how many trees you've trimmed I could care less about how many poles you've changed from wood to metal Those things are activities you can run around in circles all you want. It doesn't mean you're making any progress You have very well developed risk mitigation departments within your organization Open that up make it be a transparent process So myself and others can look at that and saying okay, you know what pgne has made a number of mistakes. They are Should be held responsible in many different ways But they're turning in a corner and it's not just on platitudes and trust us. We're on the right course It needs to be measurable and for the cpu c there needs to be accountability. It can't be accountability. We're gonna come and you know Understand how many trees you've trimmed it needs to be measurable in the governor strike force report There was a very clear direction which is independently and scientifically a verified Risk mitigation and that's what needs to be there. There needs to be here's what we've done Here's the reduction of risk and justification for that I would ask the cpu c to turn to pgne and say Look, this is the money you're asking for Demonstrate the amount of risk that you've reduced to earn this money And if they haven't then there should be a penalty if they have great i'm willing to pay double 20 bucks As long as that reduces the risks as long as that improves safety But to come to me and say two dollars or twenty dollars or fifty dollars increase I want to know what my return is for my safety For the economic future of my family and you need to come with that information You can't just come and say we're gonna do activities that shouldn't be acceptable.  We're doing a really good job Trust us.  We got this covered for you You're gonna have to quantify that you're gonna have to demonstrate that and to on the one hand spend a lot of money On what you're gonna do for your investors and on the other hand spend a lot of money on public relations To warm over the public so that they don't pay attention to the data is not the right way to proceed They need to prove it now. We're past the trust me phase And so I would just encourage this to cpu c I would encourage pgne to make sure that that is how they move forward Thank you very much. Thank you I'd like to remind everyone to make sure their cell phones are on silent. It just It makes it easier for our court reporters to document the comments Thank you. And so next we have miss jena dawson d a w s on please correct me if that's incorrect. That's correct. Thank you Thanks for this opportunity to talk and um, thanks. Well, I'm I'm Still privileged to follow up on that Your remark about return on investment and maybe a measurement for return on safety Is well put um I'm coming here with a couple remarks one is uh about a a gas safety program that pgne launched in uh 2013 is pipeline pathways and a little later the community pipeline safety initiative which Was a 500 million dollar shareholder program. That was um, basically the activity Was to remove trees from above the gas um transmission lines When it came to our town, which is afia at california Um, initially it was thousands of trees. They wanted to cut down And our city fought back as it did contra costa county to say well, why what is the rationale? A couple years past they came back and you know our city signing agreement for 275 trees to be cut My husband and I received a letter to say oh, some of your trees might be impacted by this So we called pgne to find out said no, no Um, don't worry. None of your trees are impacted and my husband asked. Well, where are these trees? And we were told you can't we can't tell you And it kind of started this whole big segue like why can't you tell us about these Because if it's a risk to our community a risk to you know, our neighbors, shouldn't we know? And long story short, um My husband and I and a neighbor ended up starting a nonprofit called save lafayette trees and we've been working with um pgne And uh, lately the cpc to find out what are the real safety risks to our community? And to this day two years later We have not been told we've been told. Oh, there are six layers of safety that we apply to the pipelines in your community But we don't know What is the risk? We don't know. Um, they're how it's prioritized We have a lot of questions outstanding and we are working um With as I said the actually safety enforcement division as well as people in the pgne, but they still cannot tell us locally What the risk is and to me to will's point? That's like what is the return on safety of these investments 500 million dollars where a community can't know What their safety risk is they can't know Um, how it's being mitigated Um, and in lafayette we have smaller transmission lines um That may not be as big as like say ones in the city or ones where there's more people around But any consequence of risk is still very major to us. So we want to understand it um So we'd like to know there's projects. We've been told or we're going to be Taken on by pgne, but there's asterisk by those projects to say this project depends on the outcome of the rape case So I asked well, how do we know if that project is actually going to be undertaken?  Um You know project budget lines. Oh from 2017 to 2019 to 2021 now recently to 2026 And that's concerning because some of the lines in our town are um, going to be 70 years old Half of the lines in our town are dfm lines that have been converted to transmission lines and 80 percent 85 of those two lines have not been tested So we've been told well That's because it's a new conversion And we're like, well, what does that mean though? Um, can you push that down? We don't know We don't even know if the regulation allows us for that or what the regulation is for that To even hold them accountable So the lack of transparency into projects to how money is spent To even the prioritization. Is it our safety or is it convenience? um We haven't exposed pipeline in Lafayette that you know over the past couple years We've had a lot of news coverage for that and lo and behold that exposed pipeline was was covered It was addressed But since then we've heard well, there's other exposed line pipeline segments in our town that may have been a better priority in terms of safety to address but we're wondering well What took the precedence there the better pr or the community safety? So as far as um falling up on willis point I think it's really important to know Um have more transparency What is the real risk and how is pgd addressing it in each community not just as a general system overview, but maybe Citywide just so people can be aware can know if they call up. When was this pipeline tested? What's the schedule? Um, they can actually get an answer specific to their community. That's not a really available right now It took a long time for us to get that information And two years later. We're still a lot of discrepancies um, and we don't have particular people we can reach out to at pgd nor nor really the cpuc, but I will um That's not to say that people haven't been wanting to help answer our questions I either they don't have the ability or they just don't have the information And um call a spade a spade and let's just you know, try to work this out, but we do look to the puc to help gain access for us and answers for us Uh, particularly about if we're going to have rates increase What is it going to pay for especially in towns like ours where projects get kicked down the line that have been budgeted for We're not getting our money's worth so to speak. So why should we pay more? um, the second point is uh The community pipeline safety initiative the community wildfire safety initiative seems modeled Um, at least at the beginning very much on that program and it was very much a divide and conquer like each city You know, here's the trees we're cutting down, but it didn't really address for the people There are questions in particular too. Well, what does the infrastructure look like? What is the risk? Once again, it was generalized So I think that's an important thing as a takeaway that it really needs to be more localized as far as attention to What your money is going to be put towards and how we can actually track it Any projects? Thank you. Thank you The next two speakers I have are Heather young and John Devers So miss young can you head towards the podium and miss young correct me if i'm wrong Your last name is spelled y o u n g correct. Thank you Thank you I'm heather young. I moved to sonoma county in 2000 with hula packard and for the last nine years have supported myself as a realtor No one wants a rate increase But I'd like to focus on why the rate increase should not be allocated to the residential ratepayers the way it Seems to be designed to right now I did not lose my home in the fires, but the night of the fires I was on the phone waking people up and I know that there would be more fatalities if I had not been doing so My I did lose my grandmother's furniture in a storage unit and my community has been decimated The reasons that this Increase should not fall on the residential ratepayers is first as I understand it from the press democrat The cpuc allowed pgne to defer review of required safety plans for over 10 years Any savings that occurred from that and I'm sure they would have been substantial Are lost in the intricacies of utilities accounting systems. Some of that may have been Shared to the ratepayers, but I'm going to believe that a large part of that would have been Savings that the shareholders benefited from and we will never know Because safety plans were not done as I understand they were absolutely required and absolutely deferred That's a travesty that we now see the result of And ratepayers residential ratepayers specifically should not have to bear the burden of that Second I believe late last year some public bonds were floated by the state as a taxpayer. I'm already subsidizing Some of the fees that pgne and the investors of pgne are going to benefit from those public bonds Probably aren't the first that pgne has benefited from they may not be the last But i'm already paying as a taxpayer for some of these costs that The shareholders in our capitalist System shareholders are supposed to be bearing the risk. That's what shareholders do ratepayers Um have a transaction as customers and this risk that this overarching risk should not be accruing to the residential ratepayers So that's the second reason that it shouldn't we should not be burdened with this rate increase the third is I'm just a lay person But it looks to me as if two or three bills late last year were passed by the california legislature that Essentially stripped off liability for these costs from the commercial and industrial customers shoving the burden for all of these safety costs onto residential ratepayers in pgne's Territory that's not right Residential ratepayers are the most vulnerable to fear the least able to organize and fight back And also the smallest are paying the smallest so for us to be between 10 and 11 dollars per month increase on average is partly Because these larger industrial and commercial customers were Purposefully stripped out of the risk pool for the payment of this As culpability for the fire increases and the costs there seem to be increasing over time We're seeing that the base for paying these costs is being Focused more and more on residential ratepayers who as I mentioned are the most vulnerable And the least able to organize and fight back Excuse me If justice were to be done Shareholders would pay the entire cost of this, but we are so far past justice now Please Don't make the residential ratepayers pay this increase Thank you miss young next we have john deavers And after john deavers it would be dwayne d wit Mr. Deavers correct me if you're wrong. I'm spelling your last name as d e a v e r s Yes, thank you I know participants are encouraged to speak to the impact of a rate increase on their lives Particularly as it represents Perhaps additional financial hardship And I hope people do come out and speak to that because it's important But from a historical perspective I'm a little skeptical of this persuasiveness I would ask those here to take a step back And consider that these proceedings are part of a larger picture A terrible picture This is all part of a terrible repetitious cycle This all seems so normal benign procedural taken up close and in isolation But the character of the corporate entity involved must be considered It's not isolated How many times have we done this? And not just a rate increase But the circumstances under which it is requested Here's a quote for you Hopefully this sends a message to upper level pg&e management that they must do whatever is necessary to comply with the law and protect public safety Yes, we should all hope the tragedies of the last decade would send a message But that quote isn't new It's from the deputy da who prosecuted the troner fire trial in which pg&e was convicted on over 739 counts of negligence in 1997 What have you seen that demonstrates they've learned anything? Anything other than the system works for them Did they learn from sitting on the information they poisoned the hinkley groundwater for decades? Did they learn from the fires of the 90s started from improper maintenance? Did they learn from the troner trial where testimony included that pg&e diverted 80 million from tree trimming to shareholders That had told the cpuc it needed for wildfire prevention Did it learn after it diverted 100 million from maintenance on old pipes with defective welds to give themselves bonuses? Learned so well that it's been disclosed. They've been falsifying pipeline safety records Since they blew up a part of san bruno After petitioning the cpuc for more money for needed safety Did they learn when before 2015 butte fire they had to march to a million program to encourage less tree cutting? Telling their people to find and i quote unnecessary safety margins How many times are we going to repeat this and pretend it's like the first? I could go on with the failed safety audits in the north bay the diverting of undergrounding project funds with no oversight This is how it's always been Pg&e has always tolerated some level of destruction and death because it was more profitable Only now when climate change has impacted the severity of the outcome of their neglect and avarice Oh It's it's not the new normal It's the old normal with deadlier consequences Do you know what was on the cable channels the weekend the october 2017 wildfires happen? It was the court mandated pg&e apology commercials in which they announced their criminal acts in san bruno Saying how sorry they were how much they've learned how they were recommitting to prioritizing safety What did they learn from this cycle? sp901 gave them permission to take wildfire victims of 2017 In charge them a fee for the privilege of burning their homes and murdering their loved ones And no one seemed to acknowledge the perversity of it all And pg&e took that lesson to heart And ignored all the equipment with a history of deferred maintenance and murdered another 85 people And again, they say give us money we needed for your safety 2017 the year analysts said pg&e had a disastrous fourth quarter Which for the record is an appalling euphemism for over 40 people burning to death pg&e only managed to eke out approximately 1.6 to 1.8 billion dollars in net profit Net profit But they couldn't find the dollars to cut a few more tree limbs The personnel come and go they'll present new faces all the time But the toxic operational paradigm. Oh, that's persisted longer than you and I have been on this planet The empty rhetoric given by the company including today is sickening Stop listening to what they say and pay attention to all they've done and will continue to do because that's the cycle And what have they learned? We can't forget the past We live with the memory of the flames We remember the heat We remember the smell And in my case you live with the memory of a loved one's final scream Before the fire from which they could not escape took their life We know the terrible awkward silence Waiting for a technician to come and take a dna swab because that's the only means of identifying a loved one's remains For the love of god You have to have the courage to break the cycle This time They can't just make the hollow promise We need it We're making you safe An untrustworthy organization Asking for an increase through the cpuc Which at this time is an untrustworthy organization Because like it or not the last decade has demonstrated the cpuc isn't an organization susceptible to manipulation and corruption By the very utilities they're supposed to oversee This time there needs to be specificity This time PG&E has to be doing the work and not the work that should have already been just addressed This time they need to as the saying goes show some receipts And then Only then I know it's an oversimplification, but at its core We need proof of action And cost before we are allowed to be penalized further for their lethal stupidity If we don't break the cycle History tells us Despite the deter determination of some not to learn We're going to continue stacking bodies God help us Thank you, mr. Diverse Next we have mr. Dwayne D Witt, okay, I'm gonna I'm gonna Spell your last name and correct me if they're wrong if I'm wrong D Witt is de space capital W it Yes, that's correct. Thank you, mr. D witt. Hello. My name is dwayne de wid I'm from roseland just over the freeway here in santa rosa A moment to reflect on what that previous speaker just said was quite heart rendering and I'm Not trying to take away from the impact Of what was said in the meanings of the previous speakers But I wanted to start by thanking the cpu for at least coming to santa rosa I wanted to thank the state for the programs that we have for the california lifeline For the california alternate rates for energy the care program Energy savings assistance programs and The low-income home energy assistance program Those are all helping people in my age bracket and others here in the area who've been impacted by difficult times even before fires that came about Perhaps because of negligence I don't know exactly what caused the firestorm and the infernos to come to my area We were protected from the fire because of the freeway a firebreak if you will But our area had the smoke and the problems I grew up here and we had a fire in 1964 called the handley fire And we knew that that area where this most recent fire came through Was prone to fires and unfortunately poor planning on the part of city planners And politicians in our area helped to add fuel To this most recent fire We have to keep in mind that nature doesn't necessarily go by what humans plan And nature does what it wants to do And if you put fuel in the pathway of a fire track It's bound to burn So that's what's happened here a couple of times now and some researchers have looked back and say they believe that there's actually evidence Of fires having been in that general fire track and that area is far back as the 1850s When the europeans were coming in to steal the land from the indians Who lived with fire and had a lifestyle that was Recognizing the dangers of fire while implementing it and furthering their lifestyle in a sustainable manner Now as I looked at the documents that were here today Basically, it's about giving PG&E some more money And there's people here who don't want to see that happen I just know one basic thing that I've seen in my life no matter where you are in california Greed rules Money talks the biggest money has the strongest voice And that will typically hold this way in any political discussion or public policy situation Some people before me speaking today have lost loved ones People have died I am a medic and a respiratory therapist that works in critical care And I've worked in burn units when I was in the army I understand that we've got serious dilemmas with this company But I don't think in any way shape or form You should let them pass any of their responsibilities upon to anyone else Especially not to residential rate payers Who basically already feel like they're being abused in a system That is slanted towards the power of the corporate entity in this state Some people feel that it's a kleptocracy of corporatocracy It's hard to say But the basic deal is those that got the money get more And us people just trying to get by just pay our bills and go forward May have to pay a higher rate It hasn't been proven to me as to why I do my utmost to have the lowest possible power bill But it always goes up even if I don't change Any of my power use except for lowering it I mean, I got it down to the bare minimums no tv plugged in no radio at home None of that stuff to bother me except every time I get a power bill it bothers me. I got to pay a little more So I'm hoping in your wisdom You will go back to your entity and you won't Take any of this personal as if it's in a an affront to you But I don't trust anybody in this system in any way shape or form on how it's going right now Especially after the explosions in San Bruno, especially after the fires that continue to keep happening We have a broken system and as previous Previous speakers have spoken They're asking that perhaps you can help us mend it Without taking any more money from us Make a good use of what we've already given in a frugal and parsimonious manner Please Help those at the bottom end of the stick and not those millionaire bureaucrats Up at the top that somehow seem to keep getting bonuses Even as things get burnt It's just tragic. I know With that in mind, please a moment of silence for the casualties From our fires and all the fires that have occurred in the last couple of decades here because of Poor planning. Thank you Thank you. Mr. Dewitt At this time we do not have any more scheduled speakers Oh, actually there are more. Let's go off the record Thank you Back on the record There are no scheduled speakers. So if you do want to speak Please make your way to the podium And before you speak, can you please Spell your identify yourself. Please give us your first and last name and spell your last name, please Okay, you ready ready. All right, joseph anthony onyate oanate and uh Can you speak a little louder? Yeah, I okay. So can you hear me now? Yes all right So obviously I don't approve of this rate increase. Otherwise most of us wouldn't be here I don't think anyone's that's coming to the podium is approved of a rate increase who would who would approve of a rate increase I can think of a bunch of people that approve of rate decrease And the reasons for the rate increase don't make any sense The legislature rushed the bill. I think it's 10 54 Through the legislature, everyone eagerly approved it for a fund to bail out entities such as as pg&e Out from these uh catastrophes that they have had a hand in And then they want also a 15 increase on top of that. So it doesn't make any sense to me That you would even entertain the idea as the puc It makes no sense to me as a regulator Pg&e is a an ex-con I think they're in violation of their parole And yet you're entertaining them As if they were a special guest Which in my view makes you complicit in pg&e's endeavors Little background. I mean I have a degree from uc davis environmental policy analysis and planning with an emphasis in energy policy which I didn't I used it for the first three years of my career 35 years ago when I graduated and I quickly learned that My energy policy emphasis because when I got out it was around that time in history when Maybe energy crisis just took place all these new technologies are coming online That were more efficient And environmentally Friendly all that stuff is kind of like a space race thing for me For my generation to hop on the bandwagon and help toward that effort. I quickly learned that sunning You're not going to call it any energy policy here big oil still rules And so my idealistic endeavors were shot to crack And so I had to go do something else in my life But I want to get back to my roots and that's why I'm here now I'm from butte county. So I was four miles away from being incinerated We were packed and ready to go and we had three days of major wind event notices That had the occurred they that fire would have gotten it would just come straight to us within an hour And we have a bridge To our community is only one way in and one way out and that would have been fun We have animals too like most people in the rural part of that county. So you have to worry about them as well anyway, so I just want to just go over some of just the general Responsibilities that I think you the cpuc have because I really do think that you're complicit with pg&e which makes you kind of an accessory To a crime and the felony that they've been charged with I see you folks actually As a felon even much more so than pg&e because it's your job to regulate them. You didn't do it All this time you had decades to regulate these guys You didn't do it and you waited for a crisis to to develop over time And people are paying the price that shouldn't have paid the price. They paid you with their tax dollars to protect them You didn't do it. Okay, and I wonder why that is I have my ideas one of my ideas is You guys have to accept the equivalent 10k reports from the private utilities every year And I looked at pg&e's payroll Which was submitted with their financial statement and I stopped counting at number 50 The number of people they're making over a million dollars a year With pg&e because I got sick to my stomach, you know, what's 50 number person number 50 doing earning A million dollars a year or more to do what? Exactly for utility power sister third of the state, you know, that's the salary of two neurosurgeons That busted their butts going to medical school and every day they take huge risks cracking someone's open skull open cracking someone's skull open to do some surgery Two of those people's salary to do exactly what? And so a number of these names Were redacted. They were blacked out. I wonder why How's that to happen? Who could those people be? Hmm I hope some Really good investigative reporter and journalist finds that out because that can answer a lot of questions as to what's going on here Anyway, I'm also a vet and my dad Was a vet. He was a fighter pilot. He was killed in line of duty in the vietnam era And we didn't sign up for this, you know, this is not the kind of democracy that we signed up to protect. All right Um, it's been made a mockery of not just with you guys. It's happening all around this country right now And so you got me out of my seat And I'm going to stay out of my chair Until this is settled As an individual So among some of your stated goals for energy regulation or to establish service standards and safety rules What happened? I mean you have an unlimited amount of taxpayer dollars to staff a library With librarians with the best research journals That exist With cutting-edge technologies understanding what the state-of-the-art stuff is at that time to Do your regulating of these Utilities so that they manage their operations in a safe and efficient manner to protect us And possibly keep our costs lower than they have them. You haven't been doing that um You authorize utility rate changes Yeah, you do but it's not to our benefit Um and not for the right reasons Uh, you prosecute unlawful utility marketing and billing activities. I don't think you've done a very good job of that either You've governed business relationships between utilities and their affiliates And resolve complaints by customers against utilities. I'll have to tell you I made a phone call to PG&E about Five or six years ago about concerns about getting price gouged and some other issues We had tree trimmers coming by trimming the same trees four or five times And those were the days that I was there to catch them Okay, and they're sending the bills to PG are to yeah to PG&E. Well, then who does PG&E pass the bills down to us So they're not Doing much oversight there and you're not doing it either That's just one example, but when I called The person that answered the phone seemed to be a very very elderly person that really couldn't hear what I was saying Couldn't understand the words that I was using and I was speaking in plain English And it became a very arduous conversation where I couldn't really get from point A to point B in the conversation So then I asked and I kind of talked to someone above you And I tried that several times And it never happened And I lost the connection on the phone and I think that you purposefully put people like that At the other end of the line because you don't manage it you must know that that's going on And you probably do a very good job of thwarting Community members complaints about whatever the complaint might be that's relevant to your jobs Let's see So you oversee the merger and restructure of utility corporations And enforce the californian environmental quality act You know, I'm just wondering do you really enforce sequa? Um, when it comes to pgne's operations and maybe some other utilities operations I wonder what's going on with the logging right now Up in butte county with all those trees have got burned down. Are they following sequa regulations there? You might want to look into that because I think there's a problem And I shouldn't have to tell you this, you know, I'm just a guy off the street a rate payer Um You know gavin nuesome I knew a quote here when he was signing off on this emergency bill to stuff um The state coffers for with insurance fund to bail out pgne and others like them if they messed up And before I get into that quote I don't understand how you can allow a private company Who is also a monopoly to get bailed out with public funds? I mean if they want to operate as a private entity and as a monopoly, they better damn sure be Really sure that they're doing a great job with their operations and that they're earning every penny that they earn because I believe in supply demand Market I believe in capitalism, but they don't they believe in Private profits and a social bailout just like the banks and that's wrong And that's not what I signed up for Okay, it's a bunch of bull But this has been going on for a long time and you guys Pretended or hoped that the public was not going to pay attention Until you killed some or you had a hand in killing some people and destroying their lives and their livestock And their property Only then does it get your attention and even then it's still not getting your attention the way it should be Because you're entertaining an ex-con the way that you wouldn't entertain my complaint on the on the telephone So you know The governor's dad Was a gas and oil attorney Okay And his mom I think outside of being a housewife Also sold PG&E stock as I wonder where the connection might be Okay, is there a family connection there? Yeah, there is and so there's something called regulatory capture and I guess it happens all over the place depending on the industry would to one degree or another But for you people to allow regulatory capture to occur in the manner that it has where it's actually killed people And um destroyed the property the way it has in the manner that has over time Is criminal, okay? You guys should be In PG&E's camp and I said this before I think the senior executive staff Of PG&E should be in jail right now. Okay. I don't think they should be Having the opportunity to say anything. Okay, they should lose their rights Just like a convict in the california state prison system does Okay, but they don't they have Unbridled privilege which does not make any sense to me so Newsome said after he signed off on this bill And making it law Given these guys even more money to not take responsibility for their actions But we pay the price the rise in catastrophic wildfires fueled by climate change is a direct threat to californians Will no duh Okay, you people And PG&E and others had all the resources in the world just like big oil companies Endless amounts of money to purchase the best like I said research people scientists engineers and everybody else that would have Prevented all of this from happening and actually mitigated climate change To a large degree, but it didn't happen. It's like the and I'm almost done here it's almost like A little six-year-old girl In her bicycle In a neighborhood where there's an intersection. It's kind of dangerous. It is dangerous and she gets killed She gets hit by a car and people have been Going to city council meetings in that town screaming about this Area that's so dangerous and she gets hit And she gets killed Well, they finally put up a stop sign After all that they didn't pay attention about everybody else was saying because they were living it Okay, the administrators and government didn't pay attention or care for whatever reason They weren't listening to their people Until this kid got killed in this case It's not just the one little six-year-old girl that's getting killed.  I think the federal government should take over all of your positions In a receivership type of modality until they investigate how you folks operate and clear this whole mess up Because you've done an extremely poor job in protecting california citizens. I'm done Thank you. Thank you for your service To this country. Um, are there any other years? Thank you Are there is there anyone who'd like to speak? Please make your way to the podium Give us your first and last name and spell your last name. Thank you Hi, my name is michael dawson d a w s o n I came here from lafayette california. My wife spoke earlier today Um, I just want to first underscore the fact that every person speaking today Is an individual but they're speaking for thousands of people behind them that don't have the ability to come today to make these comments Or aren't able to put their thoughts together in a way that makes them comfortable to come in front of you So I hope you take it to heart every single person has said something today that I would like to say as well Um, but in the interest of time, I want to just say that Whether there's a rate increase or not. I think two major things have been missing from PG&E And from what I can see even though we're in a unique time with their bankruptcy still hasn't changed yet Those two things are PG&E is lacking in accountability And they're lacking in transparency And this is coming from several years of working very closely with PG&E and the cpuc Regarding the community pipeline safety initiative That is a misnomer. It is a tree removal program on top of the pipeline Transmission pipelines throughout the state of california from eureka down to bakersfield PG&E is not disclosed how many trees they have removed from the pipeline. They have not followed sequa In any state or any city that we've seen They've accept they've paid 500 million dollars to cities that have accepted money tens of thousands of dollars per tree Cash-strapped cities accepting money quietly without public input I think there's no safety reason that they've given that we can verify for taking out these trees So 500 million dollars of shareholder money has been wasted on this program that could have been used for Automated shutoff valves. They're implementing that slowly, but we don't have any in our town They could use that for inline inspection or we have 11 miles of transmission pipeline zero miles have been inspected internally The majority have not been strength tested In fact, the thing that worries me the most about this program is that PG&E has spent 500 million dollars For an unknown benefit yet their own internal studies that they've given us a copy of has demonstrated That the environment created where there is a cracking on the coating And there is a tree root that has wrapped itself near the pipe When you cut that tree down at the base that tree root decomposes they are leaving the trees there They've done this throughout the state of california The issue is their own studies have determined that that creates a potent stress carrage and croaking in Crosing cracking environment That will potentially cause problems further down the line So I wonder in six years. Are we going to have a request from PG&E to do a program to fix The cracks that they've introduced voluntarily in their line with this community pipeline safety initiative I think it's something the cpc should take a look at I am very concerned about the risk that PG&E has identified, but they've not quantified The other issue that I want to bring up is transparency PG&E Um, it does give all these assurances. They give the glossy brochures But as another speaker said before they don't have any quantifiable information What is that return on safety that we are looking for? I mean, I think you've heard it from everybody here today We're we're missing that element. We can't no longer trust PG&E. They are a convicted felon who violated the terms of their parole they proven that they prioritized profit over safety and We don't even have basic information. I bet you most people here today Couldn't tell you how many miles of transmission pipeline or in their state or in their city. I'm sorry And then more information about what are the age of the pipelines? What are the risks they're pipelines? We're trying to find that out in our own community and uh, it's a very slow process and This should be something easily available anybody should be able to go online and type up their city and say I would like more information about my transmission pipeline And then PG&E would say here are the projects that are being worked on here are the risks that we have Here's how we prioritize these projects Here's what we can't get to because of the rate case Here's what we can get to and why are we working on it right now We have projects going in our city and we have no idea why they're being prioritized the way they are And when we ask we're not given sufficient information So I think that is a problem PG&E, you know has not proven themselves I think there is an opportunity here with the rate case to hold them accountable and to be more transparent So I hope there's some creative thinking going in. It's a unique time right now for this company and for the state And I hope we just don't simply go on as business as usual. Thank you Thank you Are there any speakers? Is there anyone who wants to speak? All right, harry none then We will soon conclude the meeting Thank you for taking the time to come and give us your share with us your concerns If you have any further remarks or if you have any family and friends who'd like to share remarks But could it make it appear to speak today? You may tell them to email the public advisors email It's public dot advisor at cpuc.ca.gov It's also listed in the agenda on your way out at the public advisors table So with no speakers we will conclude the meeting judge lyra. Do you have any comments? For the public meeting later at six, um, I just wanted to note that Several of the commissioners will be here to join us at that time That's it. Thank you. So yes, we will have another public participation Meeting this evening at six o'clock if you'd like to come again and share your concerns So we are now adjourned off the record


Good day fellow investors. So last week, Natsun reported results and they were, let's say, the market thought they were terrible. Let's analyze what's going on a little bit, give my commentary as I'm covering the stock, so it's due for me to do so. The first bad news was that the Beesha mine in Eritrea had an updated technical report that showed that it won't be mine for eight years and I was sincerely expecting that it will be mine for 1215. It will be mined only four years for the situation as is now because the company had difficulties in extracting the ore from the primary ore body. All right, this happens. They are going to mine a smaller pit and they have made an analysis for the deeper pits, the underground at Beesha and Harina. They were slightly net present value positive at 10% discount rate. So that's a huge discount rate. Nevertheless, that depends on future metal prices and on the risk. So the company decided to use the capital for Timok and to leave Eritrea to be seen later. Nevertheless, let's see the value of Eritrea, what's left. In this table shows the life of mine revenue expected for the company, 1.3 billion in total for the next four years per year, the highest 2018 and then declining 2021, only mined for half of a year. When you look at the costs of those mining, you can see that the margins are pretty, pretty stable for the whole mine and very positive at current metal price. I have made a little table, how does this look like from the revenue taking the cost, the investments, the royalty. We came to operating profits, paying taxes, deducting the minority share from the Eritrean government and we come to a per share cash closer of 21% per share, 40 cents in 2018, 20, 23 and 3 cents in 2021. Discounted 10% present value in total is 85 cents per share. So if they continue with Visha as is, improve the recoveries of the metals, the present value of Visha is 85 cents. With future exploration, the arena underground, all the other 20 million tons of resources that lie there underground, completely not valued. So that's 80 cents per share. Of course, there is still risk there, things can go wrong, but the zinc recovery improvements have been better, the copper also. So let's think that this will be manageable. If there is some new exploration, some new oxide or like Visha mine was at the beginning in 2014, then the upside is very large. Of course, to conclude, there is still a lot of risk. If they don't manage to do what they plan to do, then the value can also be zero. So that's also something that can happen, keep that in mind. What's also very interesting is the net present value sensitivity. If we look at the mine plan and what's going on higher prices than they used in their analysis, so $1 for zinc and $270 for copper, we are already at much higher prices, increase significantly the net present value of the mines. Even 226% if copper prices go much higher to 3.5. So there is still potential to bet on Visha. If Neveson perhaps doesn't want to bet, perhaps somebody else will want to take that bet and also for the other resources. We will see. Nevertheless, the new CEO, Peter Kukilski, is making a clean start. So very interesting how he approaches Neveson as a company and what is he doing? The second thing that was not nice, but okay, we can accept it was the delay of the pre-visibility study at the upper zone of Timok. They say to better assess the zone, but always bear in mind, as we have seen in the video on junior gold miners, a miner is rewarded for delivery, not for promises.  So always look for delivery. So we will see if Neveson will be able to deliver on Timok. If they deliver, we can see a stock $8-10 in the future. If they don't deliver, the question is how much can we lose? So always look at the risk-reward ratio in a stock. Here you can see the indicated resources and the inferred resources for Neveson and just a quick calculation of the indicated resources. So it shows that there are 200 000 tons of copper to be mined and 600 000 ounces of gold. 200 000 tons of copper is 1.2 billion, 600 000 ounces of gold is what 800 million. So we have a value just in the direct shipping ore at the top of the Timok of 2 billion. Those grades are extremely high. Those gold grades are also extremely high. So that is 2 billion in value. When will they take it out? Probably in 2021. Only that covers the risk of Timok if they manage to take it out and ship it directly to a smelter. So very interesting risk-reward position as the company is now trading closely to what they have paid for Timok. I have made a video, first video on Neveson. It was trading at $245. Terrible news in the earnings release. Now it's trading at $215. So you can see how the margin of safety is there. On top of everything, don't forget there is 171 million of cash on the balance sheet. That's more than $0.5 per share. So to conclude, remember Neveson is a miner. Miners are very very risky, very very volatile in the short term. I like to look at it from a perspective, okay, what can I lose? Now I can lose if everything goes terribly wrong, $2. What can I gain? If in the next 4, 3, 4 years Neveson really develops Timok, if they find something new next to Timok, some interesting other high-grade zones, then we are looking at the $5, 8, $10 stock. So my upside is 3, 4, 5-fold. My downside is $2 and I think it's a very limited downside because of Timok, the cash flow and the potential Eritrea and the other exploration zones have. So always think, yes, there is risk. Short term volatility is given. There will be always short term volatility. This is especially interesting for traders, long-term investors, okay, I understand the risks, the margin of safety and the potential upside. However, you have to check with yourself if you can take it and if your portfolio can take such volatility. Nobody knows what will happen next quarter in the next quarters and how will that evolve. In the past, I have always looked at Eritrea with a heavy discount because of the political issues. Now that they cut the life of mine at Visa, we can say, okay, Eritrea is de-risk. Now the company is mainly focused on Serbia. So again, different perspective. I don't know what will happen. I don't know where the stock price will go. I know that I will own it and I will see if it works out for me. If it doesn't work out well, there will be other stocks. I'm happy with the risk reward. Thank you for watching. Leave your comments below, click like if you like the content and I'll see you in the next video.


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