And what up fam? Anthony dream Johnson here today co-founder of the red man group president of the fucking man's fair Founder of the 21 convention 21 studios the 22 convention 21 university And any other brand I've decided to make up on any given day on today's episode episode 120 of the red man group i'll be joined by a lot of speakers from the recent 21 summit Triple conference experience starring and featuring the 21 convention main event the 21 convention second patriarch edition And the 22 convention to make women great again Joining me on the show be the guys you see immediately here in a second as well as a few others throughout the Show today that are going to join us that spoke at the event That includes myself, of course, anthony dream johnson boom john samas from bulldog mindset michael foster christian pastor recent speaker to the event introduced to me by mr. george bruno Texas dom alumni speaker of the 21 convention blogger and author at texas dom.com steve brulee from studio brulee on youtube and bit shoot And mr. george bruno himself the sultan of silver host of the 21 report and the daybreak show And apparently a spinning circle right now on screen, but he'll be there in a second Boys thanks for joining me today. I appreciate your time as well as your recent adventure at 21 summit Choose your own experience. Oh, we have another bruno. Look at that double bruno Good morning boys. Welcome to the red mad group episode 120. How are we all doing? Doing good. Yeah, thanks Who's recovered from the event yet? Who's still recovering still recovering? Yeah Yep, same same man. I come away from this thing on fire. I mean, I'm literally on fire, man It's just like I'm I'm got more content being produced and Waiting to queue up and go out. It's just you know, it's been this has been great Yeah, I've seen that comment a lot from other coaches too like pat stubman and coach greg adams Uh, that everyone walked out here like super energized this year And while I was physically exhausted, of course just running it I actually felt that way too more a lot more than usual I don't know exactly why but something about this particular event I think really left people with a lot of energy Hard to say why but Let's get into it. Let's discuss the event.  You had never been to a 2021 convention. You just see maybe some videos online So I want to go around and get your thoughts On the event in total, uh, and then we'll kind of go through it after that the individual events one by one There's three of them at the same time Uh, anyone's welcome to go first, but my pick would be michael foster. I'm most excited to hear from No, no offense guys It was great It was a great it was a great series of events. Uh, it wasn't I mean I've said this on a couple different interviews and podcasts, but What I was expecting was a lot of peacocking kind of braggadocious guys and uh that I didn't see almost any of that. I mean if we're gonna rank it on percentages We're talking maybe one or two percent of that. It was actually a lot of guys that, uh, well actually george john and I were talking about a marriage that we saw that was in trouble and What could we do to help it? Right and whether we could help it? You know, it was actually not looking very good But here's three guys With different backgrounds different channels Uh, kind of different approaches to things at at some level With the goal of helping a man and not just helping a man but helping a marriage, right? So that that sort of stuff was happening along the sides all the time and I bet that would be Uh, really surprising and it go go against the narrative that a lot of people Uh, have in their head how this would go. So I was encouraged by it I thought it was great a lot of the content was fantastic even when um You know, this guy's like, you know, I'm not a mig-tow guy at all But I still was able to benefit from things that greg adams had to say and I thought he was a really, um precise and clear speaker and and was actually, um If a mig-tow guy can be positive in future thinking Greg is that sort of guy, right?   So it was really positive I you know, I came home with things to work on text is talking about the content that he wants to produce I have changes I want to produce, you know, and so it was a really good experience everyone was super respectful Uh of me being a christian folks were like, hey pastor, can I get your your thoughts on this?  So it was a really good time I was uh privileged to be there. I actually finally went to the brazilian grill myself after hearing about it the entire conference I went to it on uh Was it wednesday night or thursday night thursday night? I went yeah Yeah, it's very good. One of the one of the dudes in my group went four times. Wow I went three times at least as I went to that place twice in another place down the street once, but uh, yeah We we definitely loaded up on protein I was actually two other brazilian girls I know too in rlanda in that area fogo to xiao and texas day brazil Which are my favorites, but they're all very similar. They're always similar just depends what you're going to pay and Show like that how nice it looks That's all of it's super good, man, especially if you're like starving and you go and you just pick out All this uh all this meat and stuff John you're new to the event You had you we interviewed uh last year you interviewed me So obviously you're familiar with the event for a while you follow a lot of our speakers like jack donovan So you're familiar with elliot holst and many others So what was your experience of the event versus your expectations going in? Obviously must have some you've seen videos of it and pictures and stuff. So how'd that go? Yeah I mean, yeah, I definitely liked a lot of the talks I had I had watched online And you know and so I had definitely had some high expectations for the talks You know there were you know, I'm not going to name any names But there's some some poison in that was uh attempted to be put into the well And but but you know, I I want to look at things myself I want to know and I want to see things myself because I don't you know I trust my own intuition and experience more than what other people tell me so I was I was really really impressed by the professionalism of the just the entire event by By everyone especially just how welcoming I mean, you know anthony you took care of I see you running around you're making sure everyone feels welcome You know taking care of every single speaker, you know same with george and And in so many of the the guys there that that had been there for a while So I felt like it felt like you know coming home to to a family right that I felt like definitely that that really sense and this is I think there's a key thing is like That sense of brotherhood that that we really need today As man, that's that's the biggest biggest thing that that I found from the event was that that was there all the time You know and like michael was saying it was kind of cool to like you know like like guys like Like coach coach greg You know his his audience doesn't like me right like there's this you know It's like every time that you know, they don't like me very much But man me and him hit it off great You know I mean and and it's like because when you when you are face to face talking with with men That's how you you can't really assess a man until you are are talking to him face to face And so I really like that You know that and I'm glad that it was a live event because there's no substitute for that just a camaraderie You know I hung out with so many people Even even some of the the volunteers the crew that you had some some of the younger guys We went out downtown or land you know it was good. It had a good time and you know Just uh hearing their story seeing their perspective. It's good to see like these younger guys that are in their you know their early 20s and to To see what are they thinking like you know, where where are they at?  It was just awesome You know, there were old friends like L. Ed holes and and you know I'd finally got to meet jack donovan in person We had been talking a lot and I had him on my channel a couple of times So it was really cool to do man the steam reverend mr. Reverend. Yeah Yeah, Jesse Jesse's Jesse's awesome. You can't help but but like Jesse, you know what I mean? Especially I love it.  So but it's funny, but no he's a slump maker boy. Are you a slump maker? He was actually asking about the audience in 21 convention to tony brun and tony bruno is a bunch of slump makers in there Yeah, Jesse Jesse's like, oh, okay And he instantly like understood like what he wanted to what he wanted to do for them. So yeah, it's interesting But it's good to get all those perspectives. I think that's what's so key about it Is it's like Everyone's welcome and we have because there's so much feud online. I can't stand the feud online We're we're brothers. You know what I mean? We're men We we have differences and those things are important But there because you're in person because of the environment that you created there It's like we can discuss our differences But we can still have a couple of drinks and have a good time and no one's getting all upset and in angry and acting like Like like female, you know, I mean, it's like we're acting like men there So I love the um jack donovan of course talks about the tactical virtues strength courage mastery and honor for you know his uh philosophy of masculinity, which I love that I endorse strongly But what I take away from it too that I don't hear talked about too too much except he would say One of the ways he I think would would say this he has a saying that Violence is golden Which you don't hear very much in culture. Here's silence That says violence is golden and he talks about what that means But how I interpret it too is physicality Strength typically be associated with physicality physical strength not necessarily psychological strength, which is a thing But that's different. Here's strength. You think about something physical Think about lifting weights think about getting in a fight or something And with the 21 convention 21 summit, it's very physical like you mentioned it's under virtual summit It's very physicality kind of thing and that means handshakes. That means eye contact. That means face-to-face interactions That means dinner or drinks, you know, patting each other on the back goofing around horsing around taking photos together That physicality is a big part of what makes it special and makes it magical and you know virtual summits are not the end of the world, but Generally, I'm not a fan of them. I don't like them. They've been a thing since the early 2010s It's been increasingly like it's a new thing We're going to do our digital summit and with covet, you know, I get it.  We pulled off our event But generally I strongly strongly strongly favor physical events over any kind of digital event Uh, it's just nowhere near the same thing. They're different apples and oranges And so the naming pisses me off because it like devalues The intensity and the workload that goes into putting on a real conference in any industry Not just the manisphere any community So, yeah, it's a huge work. I mean you guys are there. You saw it. I mean, this is by far the most complex event we've ever put on And i'm so proud that we did it, but I I never done that before man to be honest, you know, I'd worked on I called with the three ring circus man. Totally three ring circus Yep, I was thinking of peter jackson when he filmed all three lord of the rings at the same time He's got all these crews going all around or new thing Like there's nothing like shaking a man's hand Like jeff putnam. I don't know if you guys shook his hand But that guy was like And you just really you get the you you get the Real measure of a man in person, right? And so it was that part was awesome. Let's get uh, george next kind of go through the the line here george, you've been to several 21 conventions many at this point Uh, you know 2017 feels new to me, but at this point, uh, that's no history at this point 10-year anniversary We're almost at the 15-year anniversary next year will be the 15-year anniversary of our company So tell me about your experience not only this year, but how it compares to prior ones 17 18 the three and 2019 you attended Talk to me about that perspective that you have Yeah, good question. I think um, it was there were some more moving parts than ever I think the coordination it really well it was a production it reminded me of uh Uh I live near qbc And qbc, you know, it's the world's most successful home shopping channel They fell near where you live Yeah, it's right near me and a lot of my former girlfriends are qbc models so But that that has always been kind of convenient too because you can I've always said I have access to some of the most beautiful women in the world and it's been that way for years now Most people don't know on qbc That there are several sound stages And you wonder how they go from one to another so quick they're showing a product You know a product and they're you know Features benefits and the whole bit selling it for nine minutes and the next thing you know There's a whole different set Well, the sets are on a giant turntable That's literally 80 feet And there's three sets that just turn So one looks like your backyard deck The next one looks like your dining room The next one looks like your kitchen and you wonder how they go from one to the other so fast We'll have several of these giant movable turntables And it kind of reminded me of that is that there was three different things going on at once on point Each had their own director It was Literally like I've been throwing myself into watches Recently like literally gears I just met a guy This week who makes watches Literally makes watches the gears and all the little This guy lives Looking through a magnifying glass because his world is about that big whereas my world I'm sitting here at my kitchen table. I have a workshop in the garage. I have my shed And my brother's pretty big with the stuff of my world Spread out this guy's world is that big everything he works with is within like one square inch And I feel like There was the watchmaker thing going on There was a lot of moving parts in a small space that had to happen You have the audio you have the visual you had to be on time You had to make sure that people weren't shiny people say, oh, I don't need makeup Everybody needs so 10 minutes under bright lights.   Well, actually with 4k You know, you can see that stuff before cameras went behind death Uh, but didn't those little things didn't matter. So now we are literally very detailed oriented It isn't about please welcome with me put your hands together for xyz and he comes up on the stage It's now so high tech You got two microphones on people That never happened before You've got the 4k and the 6k going on you got Two or three camera man in each room You have a director in the back You had the central command center which never happened before which was separate from all three stages And then each one of us here on this broadcast I like to look at it this way. Um When I I started the networking group. I don't know about 12 years ago in Philadelphia. It grew to about 3500 people and I remember taking pride In the fact that I could remember people's names and what they did for a living and one fact about them Hi, what is your name? What do you do? Tell me something about yourself? So the next month when I see them, it's like John Smith You work for IBM Hey, how's your mom doing? I heard she was in the hospital. You know, I mean always like three things about people and there was about five or six of us That started this networking group and I called us the like even though we were the CEOs of the group I tongue-in-cheek called us the customer service department of that group because every single one of us Was inquiring into people's lives and it made them come back even if they didn't benefit from you go to a networking event What do you want? You want business you hope the next 30 days someone's going to call your number that's on that business card You're going to create some kind of collaboration or something But even if it didn't they came to get graded to have somebody remember something about them and I think all of us kind of operated You know like within the first day, okay You're not going to be a superstar Even like the people with the most amount of followers are still part of the customer service department, which is paradoxical Think about it superstars don't serve They don't remain superstars for long if they don't serve. I will say that So I saw people guiding people around I saw guys who charge a lot of money for one-to-one coaching doing private coaching I saw People for lack of a better term ministering to other speakers Uh attendees and and such Yeah, I think tanner was uh, especially proud to see Michael foster giving a speech at patriarch Yeah, I heard it was pretty close to a sermon basically Which it is what it is, you know, I'm fine with that if that's what michael wants to do as a speaker then go for it And it's it's so unusual to see a secular conference and then that being able to buy an organizer We give secular sermons so to speak. I mean, it's you know, I have I have no problem great Yeah, exactly. I mean You know, we had the reverend jessie lee peterson with us and he makes no bones about it. He Just lets it rip and that's okay. He's a character in the caricature and uh What's interesting is I think we're all kind of characters Like if a cartoonist Showed up and did caricatures of all of us I think they'd be pretty on point with our facial features and our bodies and like one little thing about the way we dress We are think about it. We're all characters. No one's boring here we're it's I'm just trying to think it's like uh, it's like a group of superheroes. It's the avengers. It's the fantastic four But instead it's like a fantastic 20 We're all we're all eccentric in our own way, especially for the mainstream I mean, that's why I think when the mainstream found makeleman great again They really wouldn't kind of bananas with it because they see characters and molly new and sernovich and you know at agcortez and elliott holst and me and like It's just an endless lineup of like characters that you don't you know, if you go into the grocery store You don't see guys. I guess usually Uh, but if you go on the internet and you find our content, it's like, whoa Is a splash of cold water for the average normie we call them Well, the the other thing is I mean if you think about it Characters usually clash. I mean, there's a lot. There was a lot of egos Under the same roof a lot of egos and we kind of respected each other's space and each other's egos and there was uh a A deferment of ego and attitude. I mean it's no secret that coach greg adams and I At one time, I don't want to say we're enemies Yeah, yeah There was a thing going on with us might have been about a year ago and uh We ended up connecting Via phone and then texting first of all when you connect via phone dammit. I got your I got your cell number you got mine And that takes a little trust right there in this day and age You know all you guys I have your your cell number That's trust in 2020. I'm not kidding you so We worked things out And I had predicted I told my audience this prior to the event I said, uh What's gonna happen when coach greg adams and I see each other and I kind of built it up And you know what it was? Yeah headbutt No, uh It was a handshake and a hug And it was pretty darn cool and uh He was receptive Warm And there's something Something happens when you're face to face With other people. I really think that I think that we get all those egos together Like I've always said this too. Do you really think that rowdy rowdy piper and hulk hogan were?  I got a freaking clue who he is, right? Hey, what's it?  What's going on? You know, who are you and introducing myself to them, right? You know like nobody brought their egos with them on this which was really kind of cool And everyone moderated each other. I noticed like on panels Like so i'm all like get married have babies Sorry, I want to I want to get you to go but uh jeff has a few minutes here. I wanted to get jeff putting them in Welcome to the show Yeah jeff, thanks for happening. Hey, what's up, brother? Yeah, yeah, man Really appreciate it. Yeah, we're getting ready to load up to head up to the racetrack Yeah, man. We're talking about you a minute ago though.   My dude almost broke my hand. I love it Yeah, major strength is real man Yeah, man, thanks brother. So before before you get going, uh talk to me about your experience of the event You're a brand new speaker. I'd heard about you for a while, but never met you before the event Uh, it was uh an experience that I'll never really forget uh to say the very least It was an absolute honor to be able to hang out with uh all of these people that I've seen and followed online for years now Uh, George is always a class act text I believe I told him that he was basically the father slash grandfather that I never had Michael Foster lived a mile from me and we didn't even know it but you know, I uh I had two speeches written before I got up on stage and I'd written them weeks in advance And I decided at the last minute i'm not using either one of them to get up there and just riff And I really thought it was going to be something uh that felt alien to me But then the energy in that room and the energy I picked up on from all the other speakers and All the other attendees I kind of felt like I had a duty to get up there and give it a hundred percent And it I felt like I was in my zone, man. I'm definitely excited to do it again Yeah, man I look forward to having you back. I heard you're on fire at patriarch, man. The pictures came out amazing, too Well, the pictures came out amazing because you guys have good editors. I'm not that good looking You look sharp, man. I'll tell you it's the beard dude. It's the lighting. It's all of it, man It's good stuff.  So we're not there yet But that's coming like I'll do that as soon as we can just to just to do it That Peter Jackson Christopher Nolan kind of stuff Now I'd love it. I think it's gonna make it it has benefits too. I don't just do it randomly I think a long term it really helps the footage Last a really long time and I think it also can help bypass some shadow banning things When you have high tech stuff like that hdr 360 video ak 6k ak stuff like that it's cutting edge I think youtube will potentially boost things in the algorithm because of that So i'm gonna test that that's actually one of the main reasons I did 6k this year for the interviews with george Yeah, but let's get uh, I want to get michael foster on again in a second But let's let's see if talk first Steve hasn't uh contributed yet See this is your first time speaking at a 21 convention event He spoke in previous to them many times at the icmi the international conference on men's issues Um, so talk to me about your experience at 21.  You've seen a lot more of the world than I have right how to how to Yeah Yeah But you've seen more of this world than I have I've really been in this world for eight years more or less Um, and what's the difference I've seen at this conference is it's much broader and focus For instance international conference on men's issues Sticks to men's issues, you know fairly closely and there's always an element of um criticizing feminism because the reality is that feminism dominates our culture and is Uh is against Most issues that are important to men like equal parenting It's feminism that stood against equal parenting since every time it's brought before courts and argued in legislation So, yeah, there's a very broad broad um focus Focus in different areas, but broad areas for instance the patriarch group I didn't get to see any of those talks, which I would have liked to got uh fantasy I did see the panel discussion And that was really impressive really enjoyed that made me wish I had seen more of the patriarch Room but again, I like one of the other speakers mentioned I had two two Ideas to present that and the first one I put aside and rewrote At sort of the last minute and I actually finished my presentation The morning I was supposed to give it on saturday and sent you my slides So I didn't get to see near I was working on the presentation a lot of time that I was there I didn't get to see near as much as I would have liked to but I think it was jeff that was saying He threw his tooth talks to the side and ripped it. I like that idea I if I'm back next year, I think I'm going to try and go that route because this is a live event and By foregoing a prepared presentation. I think you you can feed off that energy and you can feed off What's really going on right there and then now I think it's a great idea and it's a great skill to have as well So I'll probably go that route. I read this one basically because This one this one that I ended up writing was important to me especially with the election coming up I really wanted to get it right. I didn't want to miss any of the points and the phrasing So I don't know if that worked. It was it might have been a little bit stiff at times in the presentation You know because of that I heard good things about a man from tennies and speakers I have a speaker's not had me up about it. Elliott house is awesome at your speech, which is a big deal Great and I is that elliott's I did make elliott's speech and I asked him to attend my speech because ours kind of Meshed our two speeches kind of messed and he was approaching things from a kind of a biblical or feel religious biblical Prophecy kind of perspective and I'm approaching the same topic basically But from a secular perspective all of my talk is secular and So but they synced in the and we both were kind of pointing at the same problems From a different point of view. So elliott's coming on for a live stream on my channel I can't remember the date. We've scheduled a date, but it's in a week or two Um, we're going to talk about that and I hope to have janice the amengo on at the same time to Open up that whole discussion I can't wait to meet janice next year and have her 22 cons to a woman's plane to the woman Oh, that would be amazingly awesome as you probably know janice is an absolute expert in feminism She did her thesis in feminist literature. So she knows this stuff up down forward backwards in every single detail I'm just going to mention the other person I met there which helped Which was good for me and and it shows the breadth of the discussion Uh, two people I'll mention quickly. Uh, one was jay who talked about physiology of working out Got some really good info there. I saw him on thursday morning. I think it was I forget his last name And spoke to him a couple of times Sorry, his name is jay vincent Jay vincent. Yes, and I went to the gym at the hotel that very day and started putting his Principles into action and I did it. I did to the gym on sunday So it's a two two days and while I was there I got a workout in according to and shifted my workout around to sort of fit his His philosophy and he explained the physiology of it, which helps you to motivate you to say, okay I know why I'm going to do make these changes in my workout routine And that that gives you the motivation and there's a focus the other fellow who I would have liked to See and all of the guys I'm sure I would have liked to have seen more of But one guy who was really a surprise really a surprise to me And I don't know his name, but you know him. He's he's deaf Oh, I'm in breath Ivan wow, he spoke with such passion and power at the uh at the um panel That made me want to Understand how how this guy comes across with such a charisma and power You know, I could learn a lot from a guy like that And a lot from everybody here. Not so much. It's not always about the topic It's like you say being there in person. It's about getting something that personally motivating or something, you know to That that you absorb about their their being about their Their essence their spirit while they're so yeah, it's very much different than a an online conference and I'll I'll pass a baton on here Yeah, that's a great way to put it man.   Let's go have a beer and just chill, you know Such a genuinely good guy Yeah, but you brought up a point statement not being able to hear other speakers, man And that that drove me nuts because I was in the patriarch room the whole time Now the good news for me is is that all the uh, the the regular 21 con speeches are basically were streamed live And they're on the 21 con app which you can get on the android and the apple store by the way anyone listening Um, but 21 university app, right? So I was on the plane home getting to actually watch some of the speeches on day two or something You know as long as the internet was working on the plane And so I'm going to be able to go back and listen to all you guys which I missed all you guys in the other room Literally, they were they were up there temporarily. They're gone. They're gone now Uh, you just broke my heart. Yeah, sorry man. We could post them in that but they're not really basically that was a pay-per-view ticket to watch it live Yeah, I know And then you will get visitors to let them watch for a few days Your perfectionist anthony and your videos show that and they have to be right and they have to be perfect Because they're long term and they're forever and and I appreciate that aspect of it But man have an access to those things. I guess I'm gonna watch faster. Uh, but uh, It's good. We're all coming together one day. We're all in the same place At the same time and that's good because I was going to patriarchs in May And then I was going to the october event the main event and so there's two weeks of my life Where I'm traveling away from my family and you know using vacation hours and a lot of guys don't have that kind of vacation time Um, I and like back in 2018. We had like eight speakers a day for four days running or something and that was man. That was That was hard. I mean that was hard just to listen.   I'm I'm 59 man I'm in my bed. Well, I used to be in bed at 10 now I stayed actually I I really hung out with these guys till about midnight this time So I was way outside my old man comfort zone, but uh, I gotta tell you I I'm glad we did it. It was the only event of 2020 that I know of Uh, probably the absolute best event in the entire world in 2020 Because no one else had enough brass balls to pull it off Thanks, man. Yeah, I'll agree with that, but um Gentlemen, I'm gonna have to run. I appreciate you guys having me on briefly. I got some You know my entire football team of children to get loaded up into these vehicles so we can take off But it was a pleasure seeing you guys again, and I will definitely check you guys out and speak with you privately Here later this week Enjoy gentlemen. See Jeff. Thanks, man. Ciao. Yep Yeah, it's uh, it's been a wild year techs You made a good point with uh, it probably was one like the best event of the year because there's a it's an amazing event That we we'd leveled up like our events are always really good, but not at this level This is a big level step up. Those of you who are new uh, john You know steeve and michael like the previous events were really really good really high level stuff professional But they weren't this uh Complex to put it but it's simply in advance to have three events going at the same time Plus some workshops going on usually we have more workshops because there's not as many conferences But yeah, it was just an amazing and to combine the audiences too and the speaking lineups and all that I've never done anything like that and we've seen anything like that I've seen I've seen a little bit at like health conferences But it's not the same kind of energy that we have the same kind of magic because what we're doing is truly unique No one else is doing any event like this physically at this point At closest you have some effingy meetups, you know for hunter's thing or zack You have like war room meetups, but these are not like major conventions Where you have different leaders that don't necessarily even know each other They meet for the first time at the event some cases, you know each other You know from previous events or whatever other events you've been to like michael foster and george I think met at a christian conference And steve and med tarence pop of course previously at icmi But those are the exceptions most of the time if you're new like you don't know a lot of people You just see them on the internet Then you meet and shake hands and that changes that could change everything for you Because people start businesses they write books they go on trips. They they do amazing things See that's amazing to see it Michael you were talking earlier, uh, cut you off just to get steve or jeff in and out before you had to run All right. Do you want to continue on that? Sure, so Yeah, absolutely. So I would say that So this event we talked about where the mana sphere is going and how it's evolving and all that And I would say for me two things happen at this event And I'd love to hear this was for you guys. So I don't know what's gonna happen. I'm not really sure it's first time for me coming to something like this and I don't pick up chicks at all. I'm done with that. I've got a bunch of guys. I've got seven kids I'm not interested in that. I don't care about your knots count You tell me I'll probably tell you to repent, but um, so I don't know what I'm getting into so Day one at the patriarch, you know tanner comes out hits it hard Zach comes out hits it hard and I think all right, I'm gonna go I'm gonna go all out. I'm not gonna hold anything back You know, I I wasn't really thinking I was going to but That amplified my boldness and then tanner told me this that my approach to things did the same for him Right. So I think this conference for a lot of us Amplified certain aspects of us encouraged us to be all the more bold in areas But the flip side is it actually moderated.  I think we're going to change things. I think we can turn things around but The the day is dark and we've lost a good The majority of the millennials have been lost and the zoomers are in play and The the the women out there that these are available to men and even the men that are available to the women It's not it's not good. And so some of my optimism has been tempered. It's like a larger like I have more of a bird's-eye view optimism, but After sitting and listening to you guys like Greg Adams or other folks that have a different view than me. It did temper me So what I think this is doing is amplifying aspects of our message And it's moderating other things and that's a good. That's a good development for the mana sphere It means that we're all moving towards reality because when you sit down and talk to these guys that You know the the reality is a lot of folks are not spending time with men Right, they don't really know what's going on. They're just postulating off tv in their past experience But guys like like George here or Greg or anyone that's getting constant messages from men And seeing what they're doing with it. It's like influencing. Okay. This is what's actually happening on the ground And so my problem in the church is a lot of the church leaders are Order gen X or boomers and you're just disconnected from the world we live in And it's hard to it's hard to wake them up to it And even me as a real young gen X or organ trail generation They sometimes call those guys that are born on the edge of the digital and analog switch switch You know, I so it moderated parts of me like I'm more sympathetic to men.  I was like, dude, I moved across country To find mentors. Maybe you just don't want it But then some guys have moved across country and it's it's not worked out So I think it's so it's good that we're getting amplified in areas and moderated in others And so our message is a message of truth, you know, I'm starting to say live not by lies Over and over again. Let's let's be true speakers And so that's what I think we all have in common is that we're really concerned About what's happening to the brotherhood of men, right? Um And and we're and we're trying to like actually help them and not give platitudes that don't comport with reality and so that to me was How I leveled up I leveled up and Amplify in one aspect of my message And tempering another one down and so I'd love to hear other people's thoughts if that resonates Well, I'll say one thing about that which is that One of the really great things about the environment was that there was no pretense, right? It was like any in all discussions were Open and you could talk about anything, right? I think a lot of places you go to a specific conference or you're with a specific group of people And you know that they hold a very specific belief system So you try to conform to that Because you don't want to be the outlier in that group, right? But because there are so many viewpoints here and having all three of those Conferences at once because you have you know guys like yourself Michael who are her pastors or christian Or you know who who are And then you have guys that are more in the pickup community and you have like all this spectrum and then migthal guys It's like there's not a clearly identifiable Mold that you need to fit into and a lot of spaces You have that and so you have to sort of conform to that and so certain topics are taboo You want to make sure that you're fitting into that narrative of that of that mold of that that place But because it was so diverse in these ideas I feel like we we had the most frank and open conversations like we're talking about the one one guy with the the mayor I mean, I was just so straight with him about exactly because I felt like I could in that environment I was like man, I'm I'm going to help you out I'm going to give you the truth that that you're not going to get in other places because you know and part of it was just because that environment because we have people that were receptive And we we didn't have that that pretense like so many environments you have that pretense And so you you don't get at the heart of these Of these issues, but I felt like that that was something that that was was so prevalent here And that that was you know, that was really good. Well, that's the that's the evolution of That's the evolution of 21 con I mean if you if you I've been blessed to be able to go to three years running now right and so I've been able to see the evolution coming across and You know, there are a lot of christians in that in that room that have never had anyone come up and actually say anything about God before until this week Um, and you know, my wife and I've been going back to church for the last year or two now for the first time in a Really, really long time and I grew up in the church But uh, you know, I I talked after Michael did that later that day I closed out that day on on the very first day and I was backstage You know getting ready to go and I just said a quick prayer to myself Which I've never I have not done that before Okay, this is this is not a bad idea. What do you find in your church too? Is it feminist like infiltrated and stuff? No, actually the the church we go to is a bible church here in town and our our Our pastor is masculine as heck And he comes across with that iron brimstone, huh? No, no, no just more just a real easy going guy But it's just uh, he speaks the truth and he speaks from a masculine point of view I mean, I can recognize that I can pick up on and that's why we keep going back Um, but uh, my point was going to be this is that by By day three after hearing Jesse Lee Peterson talk as well and hearing several other speakers talk and I was really absorbing the moment I went to go speak for 22 con and had a little bit of a god moment Which is kind of really weird for me to admit but it is what it is and I'm sitting backstage or behind the little curtain They're talking to um the gentleman that was standing back there and I stopped and said a quick prayer And I felt this real wave of peace come over me And I I knew that what I was about to do was going to be really good And I did and I and I think I did really well at it and a part of it was I was just so In the moment and so at peace with with where I was of what I was saying and knowing that These words are going to make an impact on somebody not only that they're being videotaped man They're going to never die.  You know one of these days. Hopefully not too soon, right? I'm going to be dead. We're all going to be dead But these videos are going to live on forever Right and so, you know, give us your best work and and do your like I said This was an evolution of 20 of 21 kind for for me and like I said in 2018 was like super red pill mctowel black pill blah blah blah and you know, and then every everything every year It seems to be just sort of shifting and evolving which is what we're all doing. We're all evolving. We're men We don't say we don't stay stuck and you know in 2001 We're we're all continuing to get better and better. I don't mind the the mixed messages I know there were some there were some dark discussions going on a couple of us one of the speeches was extremely dark But you know, sometimes you got to hear both sides. You got to get a new able to know good You got to know you got to know, you know black to know white So that's okay all points if you're welcome and then you could you're intelligent You sniffed through it worked what works for you run with it. What doesn't jettison I wanted to mention based on both of what you're saying and bulldog I like calling john bulldog. It just makes a lot of sense to me for some reason Um, you know last year we had a blogger a manister blogger attend the conference and review it Legends of men and it was a pretty good review. He liked the event a lot. Obviously. It's really really good Even last year with one event going on at the time out of the three for the year But he did make a comment that I just agreed with pretty strongly disagreed with strongly and he was uh He was basically criticizing the event for not having enough of An agenda so to speak like not an agenda like scheduled but an agenda in terms of like message like some sort of unifying like Uh, almost like a curriculum like it was missing a curriculum for masculinity and for being a man And I hate that that's dumb. That is a man. I don't have my own beliefs I particularly subscribe to jack donovan's uh overview of masculinity from a philosophics philosophic perspective As well as even from an objectivist iran perspective, uh, that influences my view of masculinity too And in addition to being an atheist and things like that But I really like the fact like bulldog is getting it and that's what the blogger.  I want you guys to have the exact freedom that you're enjoying to speak There's very few rules like fundamentals that we have to subscribe to at the event that are so obvious I think are so, uh You you know universally accepted at the event. It's not even an issue That's you can't endorse feminism. You can't endorse communism and you can't endorse real racism Actually hating someone based on the way they're born.  It's not really a political event But these are obviously people who don't like us and don't like free speech Which we need to survive as a conference and as men So yeah, I love the openness of the event and that is the platform I want you as speakers to speak on what you care about and what you value As long as it's relevant to the event in some way and to men And that's what happens. I just let you guys do your thing and it typically turns out really really good But that is how it's very organic. I guess it's very like grassroots Even 14 years in that's that's been day one like the prescription is What you think and in my speech too at the women's event I even said that like, you know, everyone expected me to do some overview and I refuse to do that I chose a specific topic motherhood first And I told them at the women and they were they were getting I could see them their heads kind of turning with it The conference is each one of them and then the total summit It's like a painting and I build the frame and you guys are the painters You're all I'm contributing to it a little bit, but mostly it's like 90% you guys as speakers Um, I speak at the an event, you know, each one maybe once and sometimes like a patriarch zero Because I'm not a father and that's a requirement to be a speaker there as you have to be a biological father So father father lives matter 100% But anyway, I just wanted to kind of comment on that that you guys are I like seeing you guys enjoy the freedom to speak to speak your mind Which is rare today because all of you in some way are like basically shadow band or silence Or you're on the verge of that happening to you But at 21 you don't get that and you're encouraged to speak what uh, your truth and what is most important to you What you believe to be real and what you believe to be facts that men need to hear Whether it's on mixtape stuff men's rights issues picking up chicks being a father building a family like Anything related to to literally being a man with the y-crumbs zone none of this trans crap Uh, I'm a big fan. So yeah in 2018. I was like anthony. What should I talk about it? He's like, I don't care I'm like, well, how about this or this he goes? Yeah, whatever Or really he goes. Yeah, whatever you want to say just say it Hey, cool. What's important to you? I mean, I say sometimes like I don't care But really it means like I don't care because I want you to speak on what's important to you I can maybe give you advice sometimes with like like a direction I do that I do that with a little bit of speakers, but Most of you guys just do your thing and I love it and you just send me a power point or whatever and you just go and uh, it's like I'd like to touch in on that point what you're saying there and it relates to masculinity I think to me to my viewpoint and but you're suggesting and It reminds me of this old saying to thine own self be true And I think if you hold that to heart, you're going to find your masculinity and your own Ex uh, your own, um Expression of that and as you get closer and closer as you go as it be it's been a lifetime journey I mean, I have to constantly Uh, meditate on this and say is this really what I think I may being authentic about this I think the closer you get to that authenticity the more confident and calm you become Uh with your life with the people around you and with the expressing exactly what you think is going on in the world And I know just yesterday somebody told me on my channel, uh, you know, I'm crazy. They said, you know, I'm crazy Okay, so I'm crazy. Maybe a maybe you just don't understand what I'm saying You know, but I try to express myself as accurately as I can about what I think is going on And I don't pretend to be the final word on it But uh, I'm trying to be authentic to what I really see is going on even if that's going to get me in hot water So I think you'll you'll if you hold that uh to me if you hold that Not to say that all these other Philosophical ideas about what is is to be a masculine man or what it is to be a man or masculine it is That's all good stuff. It will help you on that journey The ultimate true test or the ultimate true thing to stick to is that to thy own self be true I think that's a shakespearian phrase and that as a ultimate litmus guide will guide you quite well in life Yeah, I couldn't agree more man And I love the energy too that michael foster mentioned as well I think directly related to this Well, the more you guys speak you know thyself and speak to your own truth like that you build that Like well michael saw that at the patriarch event He saw that in zack the opening or no tanner the opening and then zack of the speech too You I I schedule you guys on purpose especially if you know each other I try to put you near each other as I think you get even more energy that way You get that from someone you don't know you see them on stage giving you an example of what's about to happen for you You're seeing it from the perspective of an attendee when you're watching the speech, right? You're sitting down or you're standing around getting mic'd up or whatever's going on But especially when you guys know each other too and you can build bonds It's like you're giving each other the confidence to do the exact same thing Like look at tanner or look in zack or look at george or whoever Speaking to what people they believe to be true with absolute conviction in their voice Like i've been especially and i've been being depper they makes that even more profound that he can do that He speaks so so intensely without literally he can't even hear himself. He's that and think of the courage I just like that think of the courage it takes as a deaf man To get up on a stage and rely on lip-reading the people around you to respond That is an amazing amount of courage and certain and self Confidence it takes to do that You know, I I'd like to add one more thing because a lot of some of we talked on religion Here a little bit and I'm going to get into this in a video Coming up soon. You know, I come at my topics Almost exclusively exclusively from a secular point of view But I would just want to put this out here that in my view today Uh atheism is an indefensible position It you cannot it does ultimately atheism relies upon a What do you call straw man? proposition about what god is And then it defeats all Views and all experiences of god based on that straw man The presumption is that our ancestors should have got everything absolutely right in their sacred texts 2000 years ago, and if they didn't somehow that proves that That god doesn't exist So this is a a big topic that i'm going to try and get into in the future Are you christian yourself too? I don't actually know steve or no, uh, well, yes by I I I was born and as into catholic church and I attended church But I In my late teens, I I got a little bit more serious about it for a little while, but I can't say that I followed Christianity and in a in any kind of deep way, you know But I'm more coming up from from the I'm trying to point this out to the from the From the philosophical perspective, for instance a big a big claim in Atheism is that there's no higher power for instance You know, but I mean we're surrounded by higher powers In and it experiences it it it affects our daily lives regularly jordan pierson often talks about this From simple things like you when you come into maturity or What you call when you're first getting sexually mature that compulsion Is not entirely under your control You know and there's a lot a lot of examples of this that I'm not coming up with right right away There's a lot of things that are That are power more powerful than us as individuals and so Yeah, I would say steve real quick just real briefly is that atheism the new atheism basically fell apart um it had its Decade decade and a half nowadays most people are agnostic is what they would call themselves and there really are two types of agnostics There is I don't know if there's a god and I don't care I don't know if there's a god and I'm open to here. We have to say and that's the way things are kind of breaking down and um And that's why most of the folks I that don't agree with me. I met at 21 and 22 fell more in that That latter category Very much open to here, you know and you can have the conversation there. So I think That's positive. That's good Yeah, I So go ahead John I was gonna say just one thing quickly I'll add to it because I agree with you that there's no atheists There's agnostics because the reason why I say there's no atheists is because no one who claims to mean atheists actually acts Like an atheist would like if if you truly believe that there's no higher consciousness there There's no morality in the world your actions would show it and no one acts that way No, not not even the most ardent atheist ever acts With no regard to morality. So it's I just think it's it's interesting We should have a we should have a big debate on this. This could be a lot of fun. Yeah I have a lot to say Although I don't really consider I do say atheists, but primarily I'm an objectivist myself, which is a specific philosophy which atheism does not Usually entail too much of it. It's it's just a rejection of theisms essentially Anyway, there's also danger. Oh, sorry. You want to change topics yet because this is such a big topic. We could go on all day The red pill in religion is a great thing. We should know there. Yeah, that'd be a great one I do want to move on a little bit though and talk more about these specific conferences because we've been kind of reviewing Everyone here attended different, you know, different parts of the three conference summit But really it's a summit with three different conventions going on concurrently as of friday on on thursday There was only two the two men's ones Then friday the woman got started for the first time ever. So that was a big deal Well, let's talk about these specific events you got to see, you know, a text mentioned He was pretty much primarily in patriarchs I think he should have been a little more social and bounced around and get a little butterfly But he was a patriarchs, you know to choose your own adventure Other guys hugged, uh, you know, 22 strongly or 21 the main event So talk to me about the individual conference. Uh, you saw the most of or the one that stood stood out to you I know for me as the as the founder I've seen both patriarch before and 21 These were the latest edition. So that's a new a new thing and patriarchs still fairly young But 22 con for the women was brand new So that was kind of my own personal many favorite within the larger summit Although the larger summit still was the main thing for me to see and that go on at the same time I was like having triplets, you know, just pop out of the moon. Boom. There you go But 22 was really special seeing the women like that Get together see them argue with each other I was the guy I had to see two women argue in the front row during one of the water breaks And they one of them flipped around and she was like she was talking about she liked feminism this and that And this girl behind her was just like adamant she's like no Feminism is toxic And she just you could hear the conviction in her voice And you don't usually see women have these kind of arguments in public. I've never seen that in my life I'm sure it's happened somewhere. Maybe at ICMI or something like that But this is very rare and to see them In a public conference, so to speak if you have a ticket to argue like this, they weren't yelling they weren't that combative but certainly for women, they're raising their voices And they both felt very passionately about that So that was just a little moment that saw but even the speeches and all that going on Seeing male speakers, you know, literally speak to exclusively women for the most part the exception of You know the camera guys or security guys or something like that basically That was pretty special and it was very It was fascinating to see the differences between men and women And how they responded as an audience and how engaged they were and how what kind of questions they would ask Like I found that the women were more open to asking questions than the men were Men uh women too they there's similarities and that like people can sometimes go off on a story about their life And hog up an enormous amount of camera time, which is very annoying We really need like a moderator for it almost like a debate to like, you know time the questions and shit Men don't cry as much as women cry when they're asking questions Yeah, they have a couple of times. I I had a crier. I was in there for I was in 22 a bit. I had a crier, but someone else had a crier too. John. Did you get a crier? I didn't but but one thing that's really interesting about that whole Thing is that you know, you're creating safety like a safe space I hate to use the word safe space But in in this in the true context of a safe space when you see women getting that emotional Right, so that's it's good. I mean we you know, it was an environment where femininity was able to to blossom Which is a good thing. It's a beautiful thing. So that's a great point. Yeah Yeah, I agree and seeing that you see them bond like that and like it at the end of it They were all very positive about the event. Some came in more skeptical than others. Some still left feminists I mean flat out. They told me there were bloggers and they were attending, you know as feminists and stuff but they got I think even in the most antagonistic of senses they warmed up and there are a lot more understanding of like why men are talking about these issues Why we believe what we believe My interview with one the other night actually a video interview we did were briefly in the hotel Uh and out of the hallway and stuff and she was asking me she actually asked me I thought it was kind of a loaded question, but it was still interesting She was like, are you scared that this way of life is dying? And she was referring to kind of patriarchy and family values and things like that And the scared part I found annoying because that's context editorializing in a sense that Everything is done out of fear and that's an emotion and I guess that's uh Scott Adams would take issue with that for example the influence guy But anyway, I did say, you know, I don't know about the fear part, but there's definitely concern That this way of life is under attack And could die and but that was like a bit immediately, you know, all the west is dying It's not just masculine any femininity Which I think are the cornerstones of civilization in a sense Because the union of them lead to family which is the building block of civilization modern civilization anyway But yeah, there's definitely concern, but all the west is dying It's we're just taking it on and confronting it in a way that Uh mainstream culture has not yet really seen. There is no we are the counterculture in a sense Outside of politics is nothing else that I know of there's just the manuscript essentially And that's why we're the first ones too to build woman media for women educational media Were you in there anthony when the woman asked George George about beards like what can we do about this beard trend? How can we get rid of all these? Whoa, what that treason treason I didn't hear that. No, that's a there's a lot of questions I did see and a lot I didn't like I did see john john samas here get grilled by the woman And they were trying to tell him he was wrong. They were like, let me tell you why you're wrong And he's I could just see john. He's like i'm the speaker You're the audience like this is kind of a one directional thing supposed to ask the question not like Correct me Yeah, I was like, all right.    No, no I was gonna say it's interesting what you said to you about about the feminist that That were there and like the bloggers and because I always have a conversation with with a really hardcore feminist a couple of months ago and I was basically telling her I was like Guys like me. We're your biggest allies Right, it's like and that's the thing is it's like with with this whole comfort I think at least like you're saying like some of those women They they came with a very combative Attitude right thinking that oh these are these are you know, chauvinist men that are here to like bash women And I think a lot of them walked away saying well, okay I might not agree with all of this But I understand that these guys are actually trying to help right that they're They're they're and and that's the thing is like we are really the biggest allies for women that they they think that That all the the you know the the groups that they belong to are their allies But those those people don't actually care about individual and they care about an agenda that they're pushing and even just in the left Right, just you know, like we just talked about here, right just the whole idea This is the most diverse I mean, there's no agenda like you said Everyone's pushing an agenda today and What what what I feel like, you know 21 convention is promoting is this idea which is so so important that we've lost in society is that Ideas matter not who says them, but the ideas stand for themselves And that's and that's it's such a critical Such a critical thing for society to function for society to advance for philosophy to move forward Is for us to not look at people and who says things But what they say and let those ideas stand for themselves And I think that's what's so powerful about it and that's you know, and that's the thing that You know that that's that's so so important that we've lost, you know That's why having no agenda is such a such a critical thing and so yeah, so you know I hope that Some some of the women that they came that had that combative kind of attitude that got this message that look We're on your side. We're actually very much on your side And uh, and and it's not going to be too many other people that I mean a lot of people pretend like they're on your side But they're not so Yeah, I'd like to jump in on that one if I may I love I love what he says the ideas that matter That's exactly right and the person who presents the idea. In fact, you don't own the idea Anyone who understands the idea is as much an ownership of that idea as anybody else And this is uh, this is important Psychologically that you understand your ideas are ideas not you And jordan peterson talks about this in terms of ideological possession And this is one of the problems with feminists Is that they take their ideas to be their identity to be them and so they cannot put their ideas aside A healthy human being can entertain an idea Two three ideas work with them modify them present a new idea and put all of it aside because your ideas are not you Feminists many especially really truly the true believers. They can't do that They have this idea about feminism about the world and they identify with it so strongly That their idea Possesses them hence the idea ideological possession And this goes back this has been with humanity forever in the religious sphere They used to call this demon possession because demons are in fact, there's a a A author two authors came up with the idea of the newosphere About 60 70 years ago The newosphere is considered the sphere of ideas in the earth is every bit as real as the geosphere the hydrosphere the atmosphere And so in modern terms a demon possession is is really refers to Ideological possession the ideas possess the person as like a demon And those people act out according to those ideas and don't have lost their own sense of themselves in a sense They don't separate themselves from their ideas. They're part of a cult essentially Yeah, like we've seen feminism called a cult a lot of times not just cancer And right cultists like that cults rely upon those similar the similar ideas.  It's an immunity to becoming ideologically possessed But a key to me what I always think of it is that you are not your ideas You know when you go to sleep, you don't think about anything, but you're still you You know, there's a there's a soul in there if you will One thing I try to do I think is kind of helpful in this to to not be possessed by ideas is that It's not to have any quote beliefs, but to have probabilities of belief, right? Maybe I got this from poker, but you know for everything that I think that I believe I have a certain percentage probability that I think that that's true because then The the when you do that It prevents you from identifying with it because you don't you don't have a a horse in the in the race, right? It's like, well, you know, I I 85 percent. I think this is true You know 15 percent. I think this is true and so Uh, I find that that's a useful way of looking at things because some things you don't really even have to have But like we're so pushed by society to choose a side today where And that's how we we attach our identity to that side because we you know We want to belong to a group and and we lose that independent thought But anyway, that's just a useful tool. I found is to I like I like that idea John and and I just wanted to add one thing to it Is that we can't function in the world without believing something It's a practical reality that you have to leave your house believing some things to be true Or you'll just go nuts. You'll just you won't get to your car much less get anything done You have to have some view of the world to believe in but you don't have to cling to it like it's unchangeable Yeah, right, you know and ran was fond of saying the philosopher that You don't really have a choice your choice is not in having a philosophy. It's which one you're going to have Every human being requires a philosophy a set of beliefs to survive since the dawn of time How do you even know anything exists in terms of knowledge epistemology? What's right and wrong to decide even a very primitive form of it does existence itself exists? Are you walking around or do you live in reality when you cross the street?   Maybe they won't they have opinions about this in the moment But they don't want to admit A good little tweetable way to say that is it's not whether but which Yes, right. It's not whether you have a morality, you know, whether you have a worldview You know whether you have Uh a philosophy, but which do you have and a lot of people just have it and they don't realize they do And that's why the idea of a red pill or waking people up exists and that's kind of our job You know, like you don't have to be fat, right? Like actually if you're fat you do have a workout routine, right? That's why you're fat. It's a bad workout routine not working out And so I think like part of maybe something that's happening at 21 is There's multiple red pills. I had a conversation with a friend last night. We're talking about the inevitability of our country Breaking apart and failing it seems that way and we're talking about how you can only give people so many red pills at a time No, they'll break down what we've been taught about working out what we've been taught about women what we've been taught about all About politics almost all of its lies, right and so you can only wake people up so much at a time I think one one good example of it too though that kind of joins the two Viewpoints is like for example flying on a plane, right? So I'm 99.999 percent sure I'm not going to die on the plane But there's that 0.001 percent chance that I I'm going so it's so even though I don't have an absolute belief I operate based on what I think is the highest probability of action And that's what we all tend to do. We just are not aware that we make those choices or or we Instead just firmly believe whatever we hold to be 100 true And then and then we can't let it go if it's not so that's that's where I think that that flexibility comes in But it's it's far from the whole idea of a relative everything's relative, right? There's still Things, you know, if you roll the dice even in probabilistic, you know nature If you roll a six-sided die, right? It's going to Come up one of the numbers one out of six times, right? It's not you can't just imagine whatever you want it to be so Yeah, it's a squishiness that pisses me off today Yeah has the abandonment I think of reason and rationality just get And anything anything to do with organized philosophy period.  We did interview a bus feed I mean a couple of the guys here me george michael foster and steve And michael actually got one of the the feminists working at bus fee to admit that there were serious problems with like older feminism And then now they're being corrected and forth by feminism, which is just I disagree to put it politely, but It's interesting that he got it's it's hard to nail the feminists down and any of these like radical lefty weirdos Because they're just so slippery everything about it like like slugs or something like a little slime Her eye roll was hilarious when I caught her. Hey, we got some more people in here too. We got uh, let's get jay vincent in here Welcome jay vincent. How you doing man?  Not very responsive. What's up guys? Hey man, welcome to the show. We're talking about the event. I appreciate you. Uh, hopping on man Yeah, thanks, man. I made a dog show Nice freedom and no mask.  Yeah Hey, so talking about your experience at the event man. This is your first time you came off a long You've been watching the videos for years and inspired you to start a business How's your experience at your first 21 convention 21 summit? It was awesome, man It was cool.   So like when I get around people who are similar to me It's just a great time a lot to learn And again a lot to teach got to teach a little bit got to take away a lot Fucking awesome, man Yeah, I saw you were both uh, you got very strong responses about the men's event and the women's event Yeah, awesome woman. The woman really appreciated those uh demonstration squats.  I'm like, yeah, absolutely.  Okay What was your experience between the two events the differences speaking to the men versus the women?  You wasted so much time doing it less efficiently and more dangerously I'm just here to help you and hopefully you don't do it anymore But a lot of times again in arguments with people and they're kind of upset at what I say But at this convention, it was great because they're very responsive. They had questions and Um, they seemed to enjoyed it. So um, I was super happy with it Yeah, man. I thought you did a great job And I like I mentioned in my interview with george when they interviewed me I was really proud to see the we have a long history of high intensity training at the event speakers Obviously and you continue that to the next generation You're even younger than me. You're two years younger than me. You're 30, I believe So to see that move from ellington darden who's like 70 something years old jim flanagan To and they they knew arthur jones personally where this kind of originated To see that move on to you is it was really special to see that if that was awesome Yeah, I'm glad to take the torch from them. Um, like I said a lot of the criticism about These principles even though there's you know, plenty of evidence and supporting research behind it the people who talk about the sort of thing don't necessarily have What I would consider the desired physique. Um, fortunately, I have that So people are going to be more open to years and they're going to actually listen listen a lot more than they did to know arthur jones and doug mcguff and Well, my cancer but drew bay So i'm glad I could bring that to the table and you know, hopefully a lot of people catch on to these principles Yeah, man, I love to do a one-on-one red meg group because sometimes to talk about Your experience with training clients and the whole philosophy you subscribe to and it's relevant to 21 convention the long-term relevance. Yeah Yeah, absolutely Guys, I got it. I got a roll out here. Appreciate you having me on and also just want to say real quick I agree with with jay's fitness philosophy. It's it's correct. So guys listen to him. So John it's your time, man. All right. Take care south Guys, I did want to uh continue a little bit here I wanted to switch topics to michael foster tweet from last night. I'm gonna pull it up here on the screen I think got it So this is a uh, I thought it was kind of interesting. I posted it too on the 21 Convention or studios community tab a lot of people really into it. It's got almost 500 likes and nine hours A michael foster here on the panel today said that my biggest problem with feminism Is that it ultimately is anti femininity It treats a woman's natural desire to be a wife mother and keeper of a home as settling or something even worse They see housewife as a pejorative In that sense, it's a woman hating ideology Floor's open to discussion on that. Uh, many ways you guys want to approach it. I agree with that statement Yeah As the crater. Yeah Steve, did you have any thoughts on that or text? Um Well, yeah, I think uh Feminism is hatred through and through. I mean it's anger And if you look at uh my video at the birth of feminism I try to explain where that anger comes from and it and it comes from a position of envy Especially among the mothers of feminism who started in the first place Um, I'm getting a weird feedback. Is anybody else hearing that? Yeah, I don't know where it came from but I'm gonna be from j. I don't know to be honest Okay, but yeah when you start with a movement that is uh that has its spirit and that its core is envy of men Uh and and envy in general that's ang that's from a place of anger and a place of hatred So it has to transport out in order in other words It's it's it's lies from top to top to bottom So anybody who threatens to reveal their lies is going to be subject to the same hatred And uh, yeah, michael could probably uh speak to this next point Um, the the story of cain and abel is used by many speakers to illustrate the the extremely Deadly effects of envy in which cain kills abel for being Everything he could not be abel's very existence His very existence puts cain to shame So that shame then can only be alleviated or the motivation is to eliminate the source of shame Which is results in cain killing abel and this is the same kind of motivation that is In feminism since the beginning the extreme envy of men Extreme envy men are stronger physically faster There's evidence that men are at the extremes are more intelligent inventing certain Think not I mean, there's obviously a big spread here. I'm talking about what we're talking about the tops Uh, they're they're stronger more powerful bigger Uh faster they build things with more ease and that The very existence of that fact Shames some women who are not secure in themselves as women Yeah, feminism is built upon this and from this perspective of envy of men And I just detail this much more accurately in the video the birth of feminism starting from the roman times up until the Seneca Falls convention of 1848 in which feminists created the Declaration of sentiments the declaration of sentiments was basically lifted straight from the abolition movement straight Slavery is a blight on humanity through all of humanity. That's true. They are human beings were oppressed throughout Humanity from the very beginning of civilization in the institution of slavery This was all detailed out in the 1840 abolitionist conference But the feminists did is lifted out that entire narrative of oppression and they stole it They stole it from the legitimate group of people who were objecting to the institution of slavery They took it as their own and they stole the show knowing full well that is a victim ideology They can use this to exert enormous power in the world, especially as privileged white women I'll pass on on there. You want to get michael's take and then actually I want to ask jay question about this a little bit Sure, um, so I agree with what steve's saying. I'm kind of flip side So steve's focusing on the envy of masculinity where I'm focusing on the rejection of femininity, right? So we're looking at the same thing from two different perspectives. I like to do this with feminist They're real easy to trap Because their worldview is nonsensical. It's irrational. It doesn't agree with reality And that's why someone like sachi who's written books or whatever. It's not really hard for me to walk her Into where I want her um and Yeah, I did it on purpose And because they're all about choice. No, they're not They're not about choice if a woman chooses to be a wife and a mother They're looked down upon and if anyone that's read betty freedom Uh, uh read uh show my firestone read any of the feminists and I've read all of them. It's what I studied in college I love radical feminists because they're honest. They're like, ah The problem is why we can't be equal to men is because we're mothers And we're wives and we have to destroy that, right? So we're like we're saying we can't be equal to men because we're women That's exactly right And they're the ones who just hate the fact that there's any differences at all and that to them means inequality Oh, they're saving like I had this one Uh, she's like just despite you.      And so I just want to tell them like look you're against women I'm for them.  They'll say well, no, no, we don't agree with that We're we're a fourth wave feminist, which is it even a thing? Who knows like that's like a new creation I don't really buy it But then once they say that you're like, all right So so are you correcting first second and third wave feminism? Well, and then she started using adverbs Everything's in adverbs the road to hell is paved with adverbs as soon as you're using words with ly at the end Possibly maybe, you know, they're they're making conditional statements.   Is when you say make women great again That's not a negative statement Right, that's a positive statement. They take it as a negative but they know the truth They're the ones that are drinking themselves to death.    The guy comes in there and everyone knows simon's the best dude Because some guys sings and he's terrible on paula duel and randy jackson. I haven't watched this in years obviously Uh always tells. Oh, well, you're not that good And simon's like You're terrible. You shouldn't sing. You should find another job And the guy's like, what are you talking about? My mom tells me i'm great That's the american women. No one's told them the truth You can't sing you're terrible do something else. You're fat. You're miserable. You're destroying your life You're wasting your best years on career. This is not going to be good. You're your 40s 50s and 60s are going to be Absolutely miserable And that's what 21 22 was trying to do saying like look This is a mistake. We want to help you and that's a good message. That's positive. I can be part of that Yeah, jannis femango the professor the woman that went on good morning britain with me steve's a good friend from canada She made that that uh description immediately to that observation That unlike toxic masculinity and the features female a lot of negative messaging Particularly the toxic thing, you know, our message is positive make women great again You know, you might not agree, but we believe it's a very positive. It's from a positive position And you know in one way you could be like, yeah, I think grandma your grandma was better than you are Your grandma wasn't fat your grandma wasn't a single mom Your grandma, uh lived a better life She was more feminine and she was more happy if you had asked her at her 25 years old if she was happy or not She would have a higher chance of saying yes, i'm happy. I like my life Statistically now that's that's falling off a cliff women are less happy and more miserable self-reporting than they've ever been Grandpa had a better grip strength than I did Right, we know that's happened. But here's the thing. I'm not willing to let that continue My son is going to have a better grip strength than me And so men are like we want to change but the women have been so coddled That they're not used to this and we have to say, yeah, grandma was sexier than you Grandma was able to cook. She was able to manage her house, but it doesn't have to stay that way You can change and your daughters can be better than you Let me pass this off to jay. Then this is a perfect segue That's a good way to put it to michael. So jay You know you spoke on strength training to both uh high intensity training But basically strength training lifting weights more or less or body weight or whatever the case is To the man and to the woman, but most women Would not associate lifting weights with becoming healthier and more feminine They usually do either they don't do anything to work out or the right cardio bunnies or something like that, right?  They do in the gym, right? You look on instagram just endless litany of just random stuff they make up So talk to me about women who are skeptical of lifting weights Can lifting weights for women? Is that a good thing for them? Is that going to make them masculine will help them be more feminine and more healthy hormones biology neurology? well The thing is a lot of people Over the past probably since the Arnold Schwarzenegger's days people got very interested in fitness And when that happens the water becomes very very muddied with mostly misinformation So women have the misconception that resistance training is going to make them look more muscular and more manly And like I said in the talk, I mean what exercise is in a nutshell Is simply a demand or a stress On a muscle's ability to produce force however you create this stress It's completely up to you. There are there are more efficient ways to do it Just like um, there's more efficient ways of travel You know if you wanted to go from like I did in new york to florida There are plenty of ways you can get there some are more efficient and some are safer than others The end result is the same you end up in florida What people are doing for exercise especially women is the equivalent of riding a bicycle to florida It's Very time consuming the results are going to be very minimal if any and is dangerous What I do is like taking a private jet to florida. It's efficient. It's safe and it's productive But there's been a negative connotation associated with lifting weights because of bodybuilders Now these are the genetic freaks. These are the far right of the spectrum in terms of response to exercise It doesn't matter what they do if they threw rocks at a wall They'd probably look the same But the fact that they choose to lift weights because people gravitate towards what they're good at People associate that activity with that phenotypic expression that body type But the fact of the matter is That body type chooses that activity. So that's where the confusion comes It's like, you know, people don't get tall playing basketball Tall people gravitate towards basketball to due to the advantage just like muscular people gravitate towards bodybuilder, but Exercise Weightlifting in particular is a much more effective and efficient way to stimulate your body and get all the adaptations and all the good things we're looking for out of exercise And women if they value their time and they value their health Should participate in weightlifting. They're not going to get big and bulky and gross looking If men can't do it, why could women do it?  Go ahead.  Exactly And I explained in the talk with the women too that um, there was a study done in 2007 in russia showed that They associated 600 genes with aging meaning these genes 600 genes Look different when you're older compared to where you're younger After a six month resistance training program probably a shitty one For over 400 actually 500 or yeah over 400 of those genes reversed their expression back to the youthful expression meaning They reverse the aging process of 400 out of 600 genes associated with aging.  You should be doing some sort of exercise in order to Maintain or even regain your youth and all women want to do that, right? Yeah Yeah, youth uh youth is associated with femininity. So in my opinion the kind of training you do in particular, but Woman lifting weights period. It's it's sort of a fountain of youth for femininity And help men stay young too and healthy, but for women. I think it's more of a priority There we say in the hemisphere that femininity is preserved Uh more so than built for as of men We have even physically we have typically a higher propensity to build for muscular hypertrophy We have more testosterone. We have longer muscle bellies. We have uh We're just cut out for it as as the half of the species built basically for combat and for war Uh to fight and women are not they're designed physically to You know, uh breastfeed to become pregnant to nurture But they still should be fit and healthy and strength training in my opinion. That's why I wanted you there for them I knew they needed that I knew they would not get that anywhere else outside of 22 Or maybe if they happen to find you randomly on youtube or something, but Right in the way they approach it, you know, again, there are a lot of negative connotations associated with weightlifting You think of power lifting and bodybuilding now the way these people approach weightlifting is very masculine But the way I instruct my female clients is not very masculine at all. It's very controlled It's a quiet controlled environment and uh, there's really nothing masculine about it. It's almost clinical And it's just screaming you're saying and stuff like that. Yeah. Yeah, there's no screaming. It's very it's almost meditative, you know um So I think a lot of women don't lift weights because I think uh What they believe they need to do in terms of weightlifting is the dead lifts and the squats and the dusty gym But the but truthfully That's a shitty way to do it And if you're doing it properly you do it my way and it's not masculine. It's not even really feminine It's just um, it's kind of neutral in terms of you know Gender energy or whatever Cool Well guys, I've been going for uh over an hour and a half now. I think I want to kind of wind down the episode Uh closing comments anybody's welcome to chip in with your thoughts on the 21 summits the 21 convention The patriarch edition and the 22 convention held for the first time ever in Orlando. This is about a week ago now Yeah, I'll start off. Um I thought it was a Definitely something that has needed to come about for a long time. I thought it worked. Well, I thought it was um It was really well done. I've been to a lot of conferences in my career Uh for the last 30 years and I know a good conferences and what a really crappy one is and 21 Uh events are always well well produced And well run and efficient and and no one's running around trying to figure out what they're supposed to be doing That kind of thing and then my last comment would be a shout out to mr. Bruno here who's been very quiet today um But you know We're just one of those guys behind the scenes I know we have a lot of volunteers and stuff that do great work The george is like the seems like the glue that holds it all together with the interviews and the professionalism And I don't know where we would all be as a group without him So my my personal shout out to mr. Bruno here for a job well done yet again Um, and I pray that you keep doing these with us because you're you're definitely uh an asset I don't think we could replace Oh, yeah, and he's also responsible for michael foster pleasure The pleasure is mine Uh, it it's a privilege to serve. That's how I look at it and uh If that means arranging chairs Or if you taking the lint off We're going to state Uh, it's a privilege Great george. I mean to echo texts like you killed it and you are that unifying especially the interviews There's more of you do beyond that like you're saying even introductions. I'm seeing But the interviews I love the 20 on a port. It's one of my favorite elements of what we do And I love seeing that and it's a way for the speakers to uh They do something together no matter where they spoke or what the what they were talking about They all get interviewed by george at the end of the day And that's the whole process and it's central to all the events It doesn't matter if they didn't even speak at the same event In some cases the speaker didn't but they all were interviewed by you So it's cool to see that and you're also I wanted to mention responsible for the guy above you michael foster being at the event Uh, if I weren't I had heard about michael foster from you a while ago Early on but you know again you made it a point to bring him up And so you're the reason that we had him as a as a content contributor at the event two events And you you changed of course the event because of that and I appreciate that immensely as a founder Thank you Thank you george Any other closing comments guys, otherwise we will end out the episode But it's been awesome episode today guys being here with you All right, we'll close it out appreciate your time boys. I'll see everybody here You know next week on the red mag group. We'll get the show going again every saturday 11 30 a.m Uh in the meantime, stay tuned at 21 university dot com and check the app store on your phone You can now download the 21 university app for free There's free speeches on it from speakers. You have died a couple of speakers like that And you can even have a free trial on the app. It's on android ipad iphone and ipod So pretty much anywhere you want it uh tablet or phone, you know smartphone. You can get it now for free Appreciate you guys tuning in everybody here today as well as the guys that sign off like jeff putnam and john summas Appreciate your time michael tax j bruno and steve. I will see you Soon and next year at the 21 summit in person. We'll shake hands again Peace out