We're back. This is Dave Vellante and this is day two of Oracle OpenWorld. This is the data protection spotlight each year at venues like Oracle OpenWorld and VMWorld. With the help of our sponsors, we're able to come to these events and we do in-depth segments with technologists and practitioners to provide a perspective on a particular important topic. This segment is sponsored by the EMC and Recovery Division, a BRS group. I'm here with my co-host, John Furrier, and John, each year we drill into these segments and we start with just kind of an overview of what's going on in the marketplace and so welcome back, I want to kick it off here. I mean Dave, Joe Tucci gave the keynote here today and this morning it was fantastic because Joe Tucci is a class act. We tweeted CEO of the decade and he's never going to retire. He's having too much fun as we always say, but it's really great to see him up there and I always like Joe Tucci because for future CEOs out there, what he does in these keynotes is fantastic. He says thank you to the customers. He respects the audience and then they went right into the demos and they went right into it. You're talking about backup and recovery. That was a key part of the demo with Oracle, that's a big part of the themes here and when you break down the technology and look at the virtualization and disruption backup and recovery is one of the core things that everyone's talking about because it's the low hanging fruit and it's very, very important and data protection, backup and recovery, the entire gamut of kind of traditional data management is really, really core. This is where it's most effective. This is where the most action is. This is where people have the most questions are and this is where the disruption is. So I'm excited. I think it's phenomenal. There's a thing about this morning. So I didn't realize that Joe Tucci and Stafford Cass were such good friends. They were sort of buddy, buddy on stage and so that's cool. I tweeted out that I'm sure gets a little more heated in the field, but nonetheless, the bottom line is the market's two trillion dollars and so large companies can participate. We live in a world of co-optition as they say. So let's kick off this deep dive, this segment into data protection. You can see we're going to have a number of slides that we'll move along with. So we're going to talk about data protection going IT as a service. We've been talking about this theme, John, for quite some time, but I want to start with the first slide of four mega forces that we talk about a lot. Big mobile social, big data, talk about what those mean for data protection. And specifically, you can see underneath the slide, we have security, privacy, and trust. John, with the whole issue around the NSA and Prism, customers, especially those looking at cloud, are much more sensitized to privacy and security issues, which fall under the rubric of data protection. So we think about cloud. A lot of people think about the cloud as a backup target, but increasingly there's real concern over privacy and security, as I just mentioned. So what people are trying to do, John, is they're trying to essentially replicate the cloud-like simplicity and capability within their own data centers on-premise. So that's where data protection as a service really comes into play. Add to that mobile where you're trying to push data out to the edge, social driving all kinds of new types of data, and that leads to big data. The big data explosion has completely changed the way in which people have looked at backup because it has put pressure on backup windows in a way that people were going unprotected, and many still are. They're not able to meet their backup windows, they're not able to actually protect their data. So this is a big issue, John. I mean, it's one of those areas that doesn't get enough attention. Yeah, one of the things that came up yesterday, Gary Bloom was on, who was a long-time Oracle exec. He said, when he was at Oracle, he's now the CEO of Mark Lodger, he said the data that is stored out there is not all in a relational database, and the cloud mobile social big data chart you just put up really highlights the fact that security isn't a pillar, it's a horizontal strategy across all those different forces, and the fact that you have now new data types, it still is a new challenge, but yet an opportunity. At the same time, you have to capture that on top of the legacy infrastructure. So this is where the technology is really impacting. So to me, Dave, that's the focus area that I think is the most active right now. So on the next slide, I want to talk about some of the Oracle market forces. As I said, the data is exploding, everybody knows that. 90% of the world's data, John, was created in the last 24 months. So you're seeing this just exponential curve in data, everybody knows about that. But the other stat that I want to put out there is the average enterprise application is almost two decades old. You're talking about 19-year-old applications on average. So the point is that backup has to transform, and it is transforming. Wikibon just published a study talking about virtualization adoption within Oracle environments. The number that we have is it's over 50% now of Oracle shops are virtualized for production apps. This comes out of Wikibon data, and it's confirmed by the independent Oracle users group. Now when you talk about DBAs and data protection, there's a lot of different approaches for Oracle data protection, but the one that really matters is RMAN. In production applications, RMAN is it. It's the best practice. The main API for Oracle DBAs. And the last point I wanted to make here is the tape is being repositioned. John, we heard Jeremy Burton today talk about tape.  But the reality is it's still a lot of tape out there. He actually said tape sucks, so that was interesting that I found that. The reality is it's still a lot of tape out there, but it's being repositioned as the last resort. Yes, it's in a deep vault somewhere on tape. Hopefully we never have to get it back. And of course, we know that that transformation occurred largely because deduplication changed the economics of disk-based backup. And because most recoveries happen on relatively fresh data, you want that to happen on disk. So those are some of the big Oracle forces that we see. In the next slide, we talk about some of the transformations that are going on within Oracle. And there's really four that we talk about. IT transformation is driving data protection as a service. We talked about that before. And that really ties into Oracle's database as a service. We heard Thomas Curie in this morning talking about Oracle's cloud strategy, talking about database as a service. That's where Oracle customers want to go. So what does that mean for the DBA? That means the DBA and the application heads get a simplified menu. When you talk about data protection as a service, it's a simplified menu with more granularity that they can dial up or dial down, i.e. service levels, dial up or dial down service levels, based on the application requirements, based on the value of the application, the recovery point objectives and the recovery time objectives of those individual applications versus having a one-size-fits-all. And the last point I want to make here, John, is there's an organizational balance between giving the DBAs control over their ability to do that and manage these things like backup versus having somebody who's intensely focused on the backup requirements. And that would be the storage administrator or the backup administrator. So I think, Dave, one of the things that you pointed out is this transformation message is a high-level message for EMC, but also the database as a service. And one of the most important things that's happening in a trend at a personnel organizational level is that the DBA role is changing very, very rapidly. So in the Oracle environment, this is where it's most impacted. It's not going away. So I disagree with Gary Bloom on this point. It's not going away. It's shifting to more of an importance. So you bring up the balance question. That's an integration of two major roles. That is the traditional DBA and the guy who's hardcore about data loss, whose job is to make sure nothing gets lost. Now those are going to roll together. You add in data science and then Chief Data Officer kind of mindset. You're talking about a whole new opportunity for people to translate their current DBA and analyst role into new positions. To me, I think this is going to be one of the most important battlegrounds for the job market because this is where it's going to move right up to the CIO level of visibility. And I think data protection and databases of service is really, really a big deal. Now the last point I want to make, you see on this last slide, we got seven Oracle customer imperatives. I'll go through them quickly because we don't have much time. But really you want to move toward backup and recovery as a service. We've talked a lot about data protection being broken or backup being broken. Data protection as a service is a fix. It's clearly a trend that as part of an IT service catalog, you really want to include backup in there, not as a bolt on or an afterthought, but it's a fundamental part of your application strategy. And then the other point is, if I said this once, John, I've said it a thousand times, backup is one thing, recovery is everything. You got to test recovery, test, test, test, test it frequently.  It relates to separating backup data and files and recovery metadata and the like and physically separating the media and the RAID devices and the volumes and the file systems. So those are things that you can do to just create added levels of protection. You want to think about virtualization. With virtualization on the rise, initially, Oracle was very negative outwardly toward things like VMware, but I think Oracle's realized that it's got to embrace VMware. Is it a session yesterday? The executives are saying they are moving toward embracing VMware. They're going to be making some announcements in that direction. So I think Oracle has realized that VMware and virtualization, other than just OVM, Oracle Virtual Machine is actually a trend that's going to occur. So you got to consider the impacts on backup. And that really talks to simplifying. You want to simplify the environment. People want to get to cloud-like simplicity. Having said that, our man is the most viable option for production apps. And then some other things, like you want to really want to do best practice, like keeping the most current data on disk. Most restores, 90% of restores are from data that's less than 24 hours old. You want to keep those redo logs on disks so that you can recover quickly and then get your applications up. That's what it's all about. Thinking about the application head and the DBA. They care about service levels. They care about performance. They care about availability. Cost is frankly secondary to those guys. So these are things that drive ROI, maybe not in terms of printing money, but in terms of not losing money because backup is really insurance. So John, that really concludes sort of the backup segment. I'll give you the final word on this. Yeah, when we look at all the data day, when we look at all the different opportunities, we go to the queue, we go out to all the events, expect to steal it from the noise, as we say. The one thing that I noticed at VMworld and going back for the past year, the impact of software-defined data centers, software-defined networking, whatever you want to call it, all the major trends all knocking down the low-hanging fruit that's backup and recovery, backup and the recovery piece.  So to me, I think you're going to see very, very quickly a complete enablement of a modern backup and recovery data protection service. One, two, and then new markets where there's new data types coming in. Joe Tuji, talk about fast data. Again, love that. This is what's happening. Machine to machine exhaust data. This has to be dealt with and stored. So I think you're going to see the software-defined data center really be defined by the first disaster recovery, backup and recovery. These are the solutions that are the low-hanging fruits are getting the first service and this is what's exciting, Dave. All right, John, thanks very much for sitting in and helping me out with this backup and recovery deep dive. That's the first segment we're going. Three more segments now we're going to dig in. Guy Churchwood is here. He's the president of the EMC BRS division and Stephen Manley who's the CTO. We're going to unpack what's happening in backup, what's specifically happening in Oracle and how these guys are sort of attacking that problem. So keep it right here. This is Dave Vellante with John Furrier. This is theCUBE. We'll be right back after this.


here on a given Wednesday, this is the Brad Coats Show. Otherwise known as Community Matters with Brad Coats, hi, Brad. Hi, Jake, good to be back. Yeah, and today we're gonna talk about the Delta factor. When I say Delta, I mean La Defiance. La Defiance. La Defiance, not necessarily between the sexes as that's always relevant is between the generations, yeah? Okay, changing habits in relationship and romance, the generations, they are never the same. What do you think about that? Well, it's interesting because, you know, when I wrote the divorce with decency book and I've rewritten that crazy book five different times for the UH press, and each time I try and keep track of what's coming up with the next generation. This was not a big deal when I first started in 1999. We didn't have a lot of this information, but there is definitely a huge difference now between the baby boomers and between the millennials that came behind them. There was a generation X that was kind of a lost smaller generation between, the big ones are the baby boomers, millennials, and then Gen Z, which is actually gonna be bigger than even the millennials. How can you tell? I mean, I got this vision, you know, these people in the privacy of their bedroom, okay? There's a knock on the door, and it's Brad Coates with a clipboard. I just have a few questions I'd like to ask you. How do you find out about this stuff? Well, there's a lot of stuff being written on.  I'm not a social scientist, especially, although I've kind of become one just by osmosis, but there's all kinds of stuff that has been done on research of this. The Atlantic Magazine did a huge article on how the millennials were having far less sex. Turns out everybody's having less sex than we boomers did. This is not good for the, what do you call it, the curve, the demographic curve? Well, if you don't have as much sex, you don't have as many babies, and we're below the refill rate for a population in the U.S. to begin with. I mean, you'd have to have something like 2.1 children to keep the population stable, and we're down to 1.75 per couple. So that's a problem. And it also is a bit of an issue because there's a little bit of resentment between the generations. The new tagline that I was hearing the other day was okay, boomer. Or they just started, the generation Z guy just kind of gaff off anything the boomers have to say. Because the boomers did, I mean, we like to think that we changed the world for better, but a lot of people think we changed the world for worse. I mean, we took a lot of the money, we took a lot of the jobs, where a lot of us are still in jobs that they think they ought to have by now. There's a little bit of resentment, and there is definitely some other changes that are going on. Boomers for divorce, which is what I track, boomers are getting divorced at twice the rate of previous generations. I mean, the statistics on boomer divorces are staggering. And you would think that a marriage that had been stable for 20 years, 25 years, people in their 60s, okay, that ought to be the height of stability for a marriage. And in the old days, that's of course what it was, but not anymore. Terribly inefficient, really. Yeah. And dis-economic, I might add. Well, that's true too. Yeah, that's true. There's a movie called The Marriage Story. If you haven't seen it, you gotta see it. It's a Netflix production. In one awards, it's quite amazing. And you're gonna love this movie because it goes into this very sort of thing. No, it's interesting. Right now, one in four Americans getting divorced is a baby boomer. It used to be like one in 10 in 1990. Divorce freight for boomers has surged like 50% in the last 20 years. Amazing. I mean, really, the boomers who have always kind of wanted to have their own way about everything, I mean, sex, drugs, rock and roll, and we're gonna change everything from the 60s on, from clothing styles to, to the key for sex was of course the birth control pill. None of this would have ever happened as a sexual explosion, but for the birth control in I think 1963, 64, women for the first time were able to enjoy recreational sex. That was a big breakthrough. It used to be a pretty big choice for a woman as to whether to want to have sex at all. I remember I practiced for a while in the 70s in matrimonial issues. And my plate was always full. They came around, well, they wanted to get divorced so fast it was head spinning. And I thought maybe it cooled off after that. You know, maybe things came to a kind of balance. But now it sounds like it's right up the ramp again. Well, actually it's sort of plateaued for every other generation except for the boomers. Interesting. Yeah, I mean, the boomers did kick it off in the early days when they were, you know, the young boomers, then it sort of stabilized in the 80s and 90s and the 2000s. And then the boomers are again, as they get older, are divorcing again. And, you know, as I've talked on your shows before, the more people are accustomed to getting divorced, the more they do get divorced. I mean, the actual divorce rates are about 40% for first marriage. It's about 60% for second marriage. It goes up to 80% for third marriage. Right, so the more times you're married, the less likely it's gonna work. That's right. Can you explain that? Well, I think people just get, they've got the divorce lawyer's number programmed into their speed dial, you know. I mean, they're just, they're used to doing it. They've, you know, they've survived at a time or two. There's not as frightening it. And the thing of it is, there's an expanded pool of potential choices. I mean, that's what the internet has brought that about. And that has a lot to do with it.    You gotta be able to afford the argument, so to speak. Yeah, yeah. And in this movie, it studies that. There are some lawyers who are reasonable and do reasonable things. There are other lawyers that see this as a target. And there are some clients who wind up bankrupt after the argument's over. You've gotta be really careful about divorce lawyers because, you know, the reality of it is they get paid by the hour and the longer they can protract a fight, the better, the more they make, so you gotta be careful. Yeah, so, I mean, that's a factor that works just the other way. In other words, boomers have enough money to live independently. They have enough physical strength in their health, thank goodness for medicine, to continue to live a reasonable life even without a spouse. Bottom line, footnote to that is that, you know, I think the stats are clear that if you're living with someone, married to someone, your useful life is not the right word. Your life expectancy is greater because you're in a kind of partnership that one takes care of the other. There's no question about what marriage or a committed relationship does increase the likelihood that you'll have a longer and healthier life and that you'll amass more money in it. And you don't necessarily have to get married. A lot of these boomers are not getting remarried after this. They've got a new status called CU, committed unmarried, where because the wife doesn't wanna lose her alimony by getting remarried for any second, you know, she loses her alimony for the first marriage, maybe there's government benefits, whatever, pensions, you know, they don't necessarily wanna intermingle all that. So they just live together without getting remarried, which has become increasingly common in all generations, but the boomers are surprising. Looking at it as a policy matter for the whole country, you know, if everybody was in a CU, did you call it? Yeah. And there was less marriage, little, little marriage. That wouldn't be necessarily good for the country because you need to have a resilient, even if it's based on a religious connection, you need to have a resilient relationship for there to be stability, right? And the less marriage you have, the less stability. This is especially so with kids when you have kids. And I worry for the country if we give up the institution. America's economy thrives on what economists speak called household formation, getting married, buying a car, having kids, you know, putting in through school, you know, and all of that is of course, you know, what keeps the economy going, but a lot of these cash-strap generation-wide, you know, they can't do it. The millennials just got whacked financially. They had, it's not like a 63% drop in net worth. And you know, from 2000, I think it was 1998 to 2009, people just got hammered in that great recession. And the millennials got hit the worst and they didn't see the humor in it. It's interesting, there's other stuff about the millennials that is surprising. Millennials are having less sex than either the boomers or apparently Gen Z. The millennials have kind of a weird approach to sex. They're having less sex, less relationships, less commitment. The sex they are having is more casual. It's more of this hookup kind of stuff that you see on Tinder and the dating sites. But they're less likely to have a report having a regular sexual partner.  So they're, and a lot of them aren't having any sex at all. I mean, a lot of them are staying virgins longer.   That can't be good for you. And it can't be good for the demography either. Well, no. And there's other aspects of this that are just totally bizarre that I would never have figured out or expected. Apparently the millennials are somewhat inhibited when it comes to physicality period.  Apparently it starts with gym classes. There's fewer gym classes and you don't have to shower after gym class.  So they're freaked out about just really the physical intimacy and seeing the naked body. It's a silo issue. I live in my little protected world and I never exposed myself. This is so interesting. It's fascinating. It really is. They call it inhibition. The millennials don't like to get naked. They require their privacy. They, something like 60% less, millennials are 66% less likely than older generations to enjoy receiving oral sex. So go figure.  One of the most likely to give them orgasm. But they're freaked out about it. They don't want oral sex, which is news to me because I kind of always enjoyed it, but it is very surprising. So you know, the liberation day of the 60s and 70s, I suppose, not the 50s, no, that was too early. 60s, 60s mostly where things got liberated. That's over. That's over. You know, I remember I lived in New York at the time in school and boy, it was liberation time. Well, it certainly was.   Vietnam War, there was, you know, the brookers got very passionate about a lot of stuff.   So, you know, some young generation Zee problem, person probably chomping on the bit to replace you. Well, it's about you. Or replace me as a dwarf lawyer. It's about the perception of use, you know. And I think that has a lot to do with all of this. Well, they feel like they've been stymied.   It's true, isn't it? It is true. It is true. I've been surprised and somewhat disappointed in our generation, which grew up thinking, oh, we're gonna have communal everything and we're gonna save the planet.   That was in the 60s, but it kind of went away. As we got older and I, you know, this is a really great conversation, not necessarily about the matrimonial aspects of it, but it's about the conversation between the boomers and the millennials. It's like the boomers say to the millennials, well, it's yours now. It's up to you to take care of me. And the millennials says back to the boomer, what do you mean?  Okay, how come you didn't give me a better deal? This is your fault and the two of them, it's your fault. That's exactly right. And the millennials now are getting whacked with another problem, which is that one out of four millennials is having to take care of an older parent or a relative.  Maybe social security disappears, maybe Medicare disappears, God only knows.  Well, Elizabeth Warren says it's time for a revolution on this kind of stuff. We had a show two weeks ago with Helsinki, you know, which is in some ways the heartland of the Scandinavian model. And they really care about their neighbor. They care about their community. They care about people getting older, they're gonna take care of them. They're gonna give them free health care, all that stuff. Right. And what's remarkable is that they are light years ahead of this country. And this country had no political will to catch up. Yeah, yeah. So the Scandinavian countries are a true model and interesting community, but they're a small community. That's true, not that many people. They're a smaller number of people and they're, except for Sweden, which has taken in a lot of Muslim refugees and maybe on the verge of regretting it. They, you know, a lot of them are really sort of, you know, all one common crux and creed and identity. Well, that leads to a very important point. We're in the middle of maybe change, transformational change, if you will. And so many things. I mean, Europe is a good example of transformational change, but I think it's been held up in the US. We haven't really got there, but I think we're gonna get there. We're gonna have to get there. And this process you talk about, it's gonna have to adapt to these transformational changes, political and otherwise, yeah. Well, what was interesting, I went to your Christmas party for Think Tech and Robert Pennybacker, who does a lot of PBS stuff and does a lot of training for young filmmakers and stuff, he was saying that he really thought that Z generation, which is the one that comes after the millennials, they are total digital natives. They're the first generation that's really just been totally digital. They are actually adopting some more, wouldn't say conservative values, but they want to own houses, they want to own cars, they're going back to wanting to be married.  They couldn't do a household formation they wanted to. They're living in their parents' basement, for Christ's sake. But the Z generation, apparently, and Pennybacker spoke eloquently, I thought about that, about how the fact that he thinks that Z generation could be the one that's gonna come along and try and save us, so to speak. I mean, the millennials kind of resented it. The Z generation are taking it as the situation that they face, and then, you know, because they're so computer savvy there, they take in information faster and they absorb faster and they're kind of dealing with it faster. How are they on sex? How are they on... Apparently better than the millennials. But the problem, of course, is when you take in all that information so fast, your attention span starts to diminish. And there's another problem where... That happens to me, too. You know, I've got a theory that the social media and the computer generations, to some degree, are rewiring the human brain, to where we're more accustomed, you know, turn-offs matter than turn-offs.  I mean, people are really just getting hardwired to go negative instead of positive. And that is, that's tricky. And it's certainly tricky when you talk about these generational things and romance because you've got a situation where a lot of people are getting, you know... Instead of getting excited and positive stuff, they have immediate negative stuff. I mean, the turnover's so fast in these... That's absolutely true. Yeah. And it's kind of an interesting deal. There's a quote for the millennials that I think is a great one. We hook up because we have no social skills. We have no social skills because we hook up. And when you think about that, that's exactly right. You're having these brief, fleeting encounters. A lot of it's done through the media. There's something called ghosting nowadays where instead of having a decent breakup with your significant others, you just stop talking to them all together. Turn it around. Yeah, I mean, it's turned people into kind of weird sort of anti-social, social animals. And it's a big change. I mean, like I say, they're inhibited. They're not happy. They've got the all-time highs for depression. The millennials are in danger of having... Being one of the first generations to not outlive their parents. I mean, there are some serious issues. They're less affluent than their parents. Yeah, well, and then they're less healthy.  There's a lot of depression. The sexual STD rate is going through the roof. It's the highest it's been in decade, which is weird because you think they're having less sex. How can they be having more sexual transmissive disease because of the way they're doing it? It's all these hookups one night stands instead of having regular partner. And not aware of STDs and all the rules about that. So the question is, can you break the mold? I suppose you can always slide back. You can be a generation Z that acts like a millennial, which is not so good, but you can be a millennial that says, gee, you know, I should move out of the house. I should get a job. I should look for a long-term relationship. I should care about those sort of middle-class values and do the right thing instead of the hookup thing. Not a temporary life on the planet, but a long-term life on the planet. What's your thought about that? What's your advice about that? Can they change? Well, the possibility, like I say, there's apparently a trend that the generation Z is adopting some more of the... I'm talking about the millennial themselves. The millennials are gonna have a harder go of it, I think. You know, the problem is, it's almost like the paradox of choice. When it comes to relationships, it's almost the paradox of choice. Too much choice, too many options, almost leads to the inability to pick any one because there's always something new around the corner. Swiping, I've never been on Tinder, but I know how it works.  You go through a hundred possible choices. How do you pick one?  I mean, maybe this was gonna be the best person you were ever gonna meet, and maybe you thought, oh my God, if I don't marry her, then I'm never gonna see any of you. So there's almost like the limited number of selections trying to make you make a selection, whereas, and now with this infinite number of selections, God only knows where it all stops. Well, does it work, you know, the dating sites, the match sites, does that work? Do you have any stats on that? Do you have any feeling about that? In other words, if I'm looking for a spouse or a long-term relationship and I go on one of those sites, I was always troubled by this actually, Brad. I go on one of those sites and, you know, my column, the menu, right? My menu looks just like our menu. So I say, oh, this must be the right match. It's a computer match. That's what it is. You know, is that likely to work, or is there something beyond the computer match that make for a better relationship? Well, all I can say is that, you know, whereas I used to have clients that would come into my office at the end of their relationship, and they had, you know, been a high school boyfriends and girlfriends met in college, done, you know, whatever. Now, when I ask of how'd you guys meet, you know, more than 50% of them met on match.com or one of the dating sites. Interesting. So, I mean, it definitely, it has turned over a new leaf as far as the way people date.  I'm always at a Christmas and August program when everybody was interested in that. Well, my firm's Valentine's Day party, still one of the last ones left standing, but, you know, you used to meet people in that kind of real configuration. Now, that doesn't exist. That's small little groups of people getting together, oftentimes texting each other the last minute, saying, okay, let's, you know, let's just sort of get together and hang out. Women, the guys aren't inviting girls to come, you know, have a date with me.  You're not even sure who's really with who. And... Gee, that's so true, Brad, that is so true. And that is a remarkable and noteworthy change between 60s, 70s, 80s, and now, you know, it used to be that you would have a substantial crowd getting together. Right, and you can... Like our party this week. And you can meet people in person. Yeah, yeah. And that's, you know, that's really not happening anymore. So it leaves the social media and the dating sites to be sort of the way, and what's happening is I've talked about your show before, so I won't belabor it, but it's also causing a self-selection between the stratas of society. Because now, you know, you can find somebody who's, they've got these millionaire websites.  So now the millionaires can marry each other. The doctors can marry other doctors.  That doesn't happen anymore. Now doctors and lawyers marry each other, which means that they preserve the wealth. That's the other part of the income inequality. But let me give you an interesting aspect of how the hashtag me too part of this is all carried over. A recent poll, 17% of Americans aged 18 to 29 now believe that a man inviting a woman out for a drink always or usually constitutes sexual harassment. Sexual harassment. Sexual harassment to ask somebody out for a drink. So it used to be, that was the sign of an alpha male.    Oh, it's almost like there's not even a premium replaced on that. In fact, it's a negative nowadays to act like an aggressive male. That's a nice stress you're wearing. Yeah, I can't say that. Yeah, I can't say that. Yeah. And you really have to be careful what you're saying. I'm really, you know, a lot of these things are totally harmless and perfectly okay. Well, they used to be, but that was before, that was before the millennials invented the Z's, doing the same thing, safe spaces and you can't say this, you can't say that, you can't have somebody come do a college campus and lecture at a viewpoint that's different mine. I mean, we've really, like I say, the negatives and the haters have begun to outweigh the positives and that's really- Silo's. Yeah, Silo's. And so, and social media, you know, actually enters into this and supports it, right? Because you can have these really, what they call it, thin mechanical relationships and social media, but you never really know the person. And I think, you know, like the match site, you can wind up in a long-term relationship or a marriage based on an incomplete examination of the other person. This is really a problem. It could be a problem individually, but it's a bigger problem when you're talking about 350 million Americans who are more and more doing that very thing. And I worry about the Z guys. I worry about the Z guys following through on what you described, because they may not actually wind up doing that given the changes in our political environment, the likely changes in our economic and social environment. You know, what you see and aspire to now for them may not be the same environment in five or 10 years. They may wind up in some other category somehow, yeah? Good point. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Well, it's safer to do it that way. I mean, the anonymity that goes with the internet, you know, you can do all kinds of stuff.  You can kind of like, you know, okay, I'll just worry about these tiny little things, but I'll never figure out the real guts of human interaction. And that's, that's to my view, but again, it works out like crotch of the old guys. So, you know. We are, but you know what? I mean, age actually wields some wisdom. And so that's my last question to you here today. What's your advice to disease? What would you tell them to try to, you know, learn from what your experience has been, our generation's experience has been? What should they know? What should they do in order to, in order to, you know, have the best generation possible? Well, maybe it's a melding of what the boomers and the millennials and, you know, and get a little, take the best of both generations.   You know, a lot of the technological stuff was really brought about by boomers. And it's now being certainly expanded upon by the succeeding generations, but a lot of the things that have been positive in society were, and the boomers at least had an experiential kind of, you know, we're gonna go out there and kind of grapple with stuff. I mean, you know, you can trace it in all kinds of different areas.   I mean, you know, it was like, we're gonna, the number of Americans that are traveling abroad that even have passports, that even have cars, that even do anything outside their little safe space is diminishing. And that's, you know, and so maybe, maybe you take some of the best of what the boomers had and then you take some of them, some of the understandable irritation that the millennials had and blend it into a Z generation that goes ahead and merges both. That would be the best hope for a case. Travel. Travel's brought it. You gotta get out there. Travel is definitely brought it.  Yeah. They gotta go east, they gotta go west.    It's just, you know, it's like I say, some of this has gotten a, it's way too easy to find your own little insular little grouping and stay there as though that was reality. And technology reinforces that. Technology can give us great lives but can also complicate our lives to the point where it may not be worth it sometimes. Thank you, Brad Coats. Hey. Great for you to come down. Thank you, I always love talking to you. Don't forget. Yeah, we're gonna do this again. I always love talking to you. 2020 is coming soon. Aloha. Aloha, all the Think Tech audience. This is a great program you put together here.


If you see this video output you will realize you will see that this is superior, this is inferior, this is one side and this is the posterior fossa, this is the middle fossa. This is the bridge of bone that is the pitris bone separating the posterior fossa from the middle fossa. If you see the occipital side, you will see the internal auditory canal. Then medial to the internal auditory canal and this ridge, on the upper side you can see the foremen lacerum here, that is the foremen lacerum, that is the foremen spinosum and that is the foremen lacerum, this one slightly more up, this one. That is the foremen spinosum, foremen ovale, foremen lacerum. Anything above the foremen lacerum and medial to the internal auditory canal, that is the dense bone which is devoid of any vessels or nerves, that is the pitris epics. It is under the impression of the Michael's cave. So we will come to that. So this is what we will be talking about. This is the more important part, the central scullways. We already talked about the anterior cliente process, the superior orbital fissure, the orbital apex, that is the cavernous sinus, that is the posterior clientoid and the pitris epics. You may not be a scullways surgeon dealing with these pathologies but this is one place which will, every micro neurosurgeon or endoscopic neurosurgeon will be dealing this with this area sometime or the other and it is very important to know the anatomy of this place. These are my teachers. So this is what we will be talking about. This is bounded by the GSPN, the arcuate eminence, the V3 and the pitris ridge. It is behind the gasoline ganglion, we lateral to the superior pitrious sinus and anterior to the arcuate eminence and medial to the GSPN. So you can have an original triangle which can be opened like that that I will show you. So I will just come on to the real skill stuff, we will not talk about theory here. So what you should do is a simple temporal incision. Once you have given a simple temporal incision, you can either do an osteoplastic flap or a free bone flap. Here I will demonstrate a free bone flap and most of the artwork is osteoplastic because then you do not have to, really if you do not have any place you do not have to fix them back. The temporal cuff stick is left behind, the temporalis muscle is elevated. Before that incision of the temporalis over the temporalis fascia is important. So that you save the facial nerve. That is from the line joining the kibar hole to the root of zygoma. So it will be somewhere here. So that is where you must incise the temporal fascia before you elevate the skin flap down. But if you have already elevated the skin flap down and then you incise that means your facial nerve is already stretched too far. That is something that you can do. Take this. After that expose the zygomatic osteotomy, the zygomatic bone. If you are planning a zygomatic osteotomy, for a standard posterior clinoid lesion or for a petroclival meningioma or a trigeminal shonoma or a basilar aneurysm, the spectrum of lesions just need to do a zygomatic osteotomy. If the lesion is extending into the anterior cavernous sinus, superior orbital fissure, then you have to do an orbital zygomatic osteotomy. The small standard temporal craniotomy or a terional craniotomy is enough, followed by a zygomatic osteotomy or an orbital zygomatic osteotomy. So just showing you the difference between the two, what exactly is the difference. Here when you are doing a zygomatic osteotomy, you are actually dealing with the lesions here. The rotation becomes much more. So you are actually having more rotation of the head to the opposite side because your focus is towards the posterior aspect. Your craniotomy goes a bit more back, less terional. This is the standard terional craniotomy. And your cuts can be, have to be in your, its centering is at the spinoidal ridge of the terion. Here the centering is usually at the formino valley, between the formino valley and the formino tandem. So it is basically, this is the centering. How do you localize the root of zygoma when you are, how do you localize this formino spinosome? When you have done this craniotomy, the root of zygoma, if you just see the root of zygoma, 2 centimeters under, just deep to it, is always the formino spinosome. So if you have, if you have an extradural hematoma with a very swirl bleeding and there is a lot of gush from the temporal aspect and you know this middlemen angelotomy and you cannot find it. The best way to find it is just palpate the root of this zygomatic process. Just 2 centimeters under that and that we will find in the middlemen angelotomy. Once you have done an orbital zygomatic osteotomy, when you elevate that free bone flap, there always a buckle pad of fat under this bone. Once you remove this bone, you can take out some, some zygomatic pad of fat, which you can replace either when you are taking off the clinoid process or your vitreous bone. Even if it is clear and there is no pneumatization of any clinoid or any vitreous, it is always better to have this, this pad is, this zygomatic pad is given free for you. Just take it and put it there. Even if you do not want to do, use some glue, it will help you, at least a psychological leaf will be there. Then reduce the sphenoid range, which I showed last time. From the sphenoid range, first step, then division of the middlemen angelotomy, dilation of the formant spinosome, lateral wall of the cavernous sinus, it should be dissected, V3, V2, anterior cavernous sinus may not, you do not require, the main process is only this. This is the area. Why you have to strip the posterior cavernous sinus or expose? Because if you only do this till here, you can see there is a very small approach. This is just small oval or a triangle type of thing behind the GSP and that is the blush of the ICA, that is the Meckles cave and that is the archway terminus. So, you only have a small pace here. But the moment you open the, the dura till here, you have a big void here and you can actually drill everything right to the base, where sixth nerve actually goes out from here under this. Then drilling of the Petrus apex, Glasgow Crock triangle we never expose, opening the middle fossa and the posterior fossa dura, sectioning of the tentorium and intradural posterior fossa can be seen. So, this is what the standard incision, the hydration is should be much more to the opposite, it should be on 60 degrees. Standard small temporal incision has to go down the daigoma because this is where the zygomatic process is and you have to remove that. The temporal crinotomy and the zygomatic osteotomy, we usually do it osteoplastic, it is simpler to close. This can be done in pitroclival meningiomas because you can go straight in and remove these, when they are larger, you cannot remove by the straight approach, you need a retro sigmoid approach along with this approach, a combined approach. I have stopped doing complete pitrocel approaches now, so a combined approach here will become an anterior peterous with retro sigmoid. Retro sigmoid is a very important approach, with a standard retro sigmoid you cannot reach this area, so this will help you to reach that part of area. This is a type of, that is pitroclival meningioma with the old video. Foreman's pinosum is drilled, middle meningiol artery is exposed. Then same meningiol layer is separated from the membranous layer, the section over the V3, V2 complex, on the back towards the pitrocepex, here will be the Gspn. There is always some oozing there because of the vascular channels, and this had a meningioma and always more vascularity. This is the area which is important to be drilled. This is the arcuate eminence, the V3 Gspn and the pitros ridge. Always some bleeding from the cavernous sinus from the Parkinson's triangle area. Drilling it down to the posterior fossa dura, open the middle posterior fossa dura, open the middle fossa dura. So it's a standard temporal in duotomy, just at the base of the temporal, you actually open the duotomy, the temporal duora somewhere here. Then putting a linear down till the middle fossa, that's a tentorium. By doing this approach your tumor is already de-vascularized here. That's the fourth nerve. That's the centorial section just behind the fourth nerve. But this involves the superior pitrosil sinus as well. That's the posterior fossa dura. So by this approach what you have done is, you've done, combined a sub-temporal approach with a pre, I would say a pre-clival approach, upper-clives. So you've opened the posterior fossa and the middle fossa into one compartment. I feel it's a very nice approach and a very safe approach. The problems are not in the approach. The problems are actually when you, it's the inside where, which will be there because of the problems of these tumors itself. These tumors are very adherent to the pia and to the bacillus perforators and they take a long microsurgical time to dissect these. Therefore, I'm actually worried when people talk about endoscopic removal of pitroclival meningemus because even microsurgical position with 15 times magnification is very difficult to separate these perforators and you have to take, take a decision in 10 to 15 percent of times or maybe sometimes 20 percent of times, leave a bit of tumor over that area. With the complications in these surgeries, if you have a lot of perforator handling or damage, it can be absolutely not rewarding at all. It can be, it has a fifth nerve, tumor is removed. We don't do any basilar bifurcation aneurysms. Pustier circulation is hardly clipped now. Yes, these are rare clippings which I do maybe once in the six months or so because they fail and when they fail, they, they come to us. So this is field embolization at two centers because broad base, very thin PCAs, they couldn't put stents. So that was a slightly low lying basilar aneurysm. So same middle meningel artery, that's the V3, same petrus, apex is being drilled. Now the tumor is opened behind the fourth nerve. So with this approach, you are open to Pustier fossa as well as now the middle fossa. That's the fourth nerve.  The only thing in, in the sub temporal approach, you cannot go beyond one centimeter because the venous bleeding will be there. Here, you are actually coagulating the superior petrosil sinus and you can go right through the Pustier fossa dura. And when you open this, the basilar artery will be here somewhere and that's the fourth nerve. Fourth nerve is something that can be mobilized by three to four millimeters along with its neural sleeve. That's the third nerve. Third nerve cannot be manipulated unless there is something known as an oculomotor trigone. If you open it to oculomotor trigone, that's an eight to 10 millimeter. That in any sub temporal approach, like please don't try to manipulate the third nerve. It's very, very sensitive to any manipulation. But if you open the tentorium over the third nerve, you can manipulate it by at least five to eight millimeters. So that's the basilar trunk between the fourth and the third nerve. Putting a temporary clip here, we dissected the PCS. The PCS were incorporated, tilted a bit. So the temporary clip is on, then we coagulate. That's a temporary clip. The temporary, the, the aneurysm is coagulated. You cannot clip these aneurysms, these broad neck aneurysms here with one go. You have to reconstruct anywhere. That's the thing with aneurysms, that if you want to reconstruct, make them into a smaller neck, a nice circular neck. And that you can do easily with some coagulation under, under water, then you can clip it, clip them. That's the opposite third, the PCS. Basilar aneurysms and ICA bifurcation aneurysms. Our two aneurysms, if they are broad neck, the fundus is nearly the same as the neck. Size, the ratio. If you have put a clip and you are sure about the perforators, please don't rupture and try to prove to yourself that you have completely clipped aneurysm. Your clip will just blow out. These are two areas where if you want to rupture, you have to put two clips. If you really want to, two or three clips and then you rupture. Because in one clip will be too light for that jet of an ICA bifurcation or a basilar bifurcation, just blow out. Because I've burnt my finger once, I can tell you. So that's a fifth nerve sonoma. So if we can, we can take off this small Petrus apex. Fifth nerve sonomas usually amputate the Petrus apex. And this, you have to drill a bit more and then the tumor can be removed. Another fifth nerve sonoma, where this part of the Petrus apex, you can direct, these are tumors you cannot access with any single approach. You need either a middle fossa or a posterior fossa, but this extended middle fossa can help you deal with both things. So the same. These are actually inter-dual tumors. These are between the meningeal layer and this and the membranous layer. So you open the two layers of the cavernous sinus. That's the tumor. Along with the third V3 and the V4 and the V2, that's the Petrus apex. These tumors should always be approached extradurally from the middle fossa. You should never approach them intradurally. You will damage the nerves. Then a bit of Petrus apex have to be removed. Whenever I was training with Dr. Vinko, Dolan C always used to say that if your fifth nerve sonoma, if you reject a fifth nerve sonoma and the patient does not improve sensation, all the sensations do not remain the same. That means you've not done good surgery. That means you've damaged the fascicles which were from the which the tumor was not arising from. So once we have taken this out, then we can... So once this posterior fossa is also there and you can see the tumor is now coming like this, then it's all sharp dissection. Fifth nerve sonomas are very bad. They're just like NF2 bilateral acoustics in which the problem is they're not crucible. Even if you have the highest power, it just is there. It doesn't move. The user doesn't move. And loop cotter is not safe here. My angioma is alright, but loop cotter is not safe for this. The best way, the safest, they bleed very less. The best way is to just take them with knife with small, small bits and keep on doing some sharp dissection at the surface with. So when you're cutting with the front of the knife or the blade of the knife, but you're dissecting with the back of the knife. So that movement you can practice. And you must try to identify the fascicle from which the tumor is arising from. Yeah, that is the fascicle. So there's only one or two fascicles from which this. And we must divide that fascicle to remove the tumor. The rest of the nerves should be absolutely preserved. That is one hallmark of pitrochloroma angioma. This approach is very versatile. I have used it in everything practically. They've done bilateral histocytosis. This is published by, I think Deepak had published it. Pitrochloroals, condosarcomas, we get huge tumors. So this was removed from this approach as such. Cordomas, but another problem with cordomas is, now I feel, I still feel that cordomas of this type, they're not extradural. They become intradural. I'm despite being doing a lot of, after having interacted with my German friends, doing a lot of endoscopic work, all my pituitaries are in copy. But whenever there's something intradural, I feel afraid. I'm more afraid about the CSF leak. These tumors I'll still do anterior transpetrus and cover this with nice whatever I cannot remove in front. I just cover it, seal it from inside with a dual patch, going after three months. In this, I've been three months. At that time, it was microscopic. So I took this out of the microscope. That was fine. Then a very super giant ones, which here is a frontotemporal craniotomy with this. And surprisingly, when we mobilized this and took the solid part out, the rest just came out. It was just carbonate and just kept on coming out. And the ones which were going into posterior fossa, craniopharyngeumas, epidermoids going everywhere. So advantages is, what does all these approaches help you? It convexitizes the deep seated lesion. The most important thing is, it gives a brain protection and a venous protection, especially an extradural approach. If you do these same approaches, if you do a petrochloric meningioma or a simple tentative meningioma, which is going to posterior fossa just by sub temporal approach, by any intradural approach, you'll damage the vein of labia. If this is one approach, where the dura is always covering the vein of labia and you are doing a sub temporal approach without even doing anything to the vein of labia. So it has advantages, it's a big area for drilling. If you're drilling straight at the peterous apex, you need some practice for that. And you have a direct access on the metal scave and the fifth nerve and the duralis canal. Sixth nerve is most important. In all these fifth nerve sonomas and meningiomas, sixth nerve is something that can be injured. You're avoiding a complete peterous approach and then you have to be very slightly delicate to the geniculate anglion. The only disadvantage is posterior cavernous sinus dissection that you can learn with time. For any skills program, this is a skills and you realize that when we talk about skills, we don't only talk about that you take an endoscope and go in or you take a microscope and take a drill going. It's very important to learn the anatomy. Anatomy is very, very important. So you need neuron anatomy. For any skills training, neuron anatomy is something that comes first. Tissue handling is very important that you can learn by knowing your instruments. Microsurgical skills, the two most important microsurgical skills. One is arachnoid handling that you can only do with good microscopic practice, which we realize that high zoom micro switching practice makes you learn a lot. Then high speed drilling, that is something which is very important. So thank you, thank you very much.