Seeing a presence of a quorum, I'm calling the February 3, 2022 meeting of the Community Resources Committee of the Town Council to order pursuant to chapter 20 of the acts of 2021. This meeting will be conducted by a remote means members of the public who wish to access the meeting may do so via zoom or telephone. The attendance of members of the public will be permitted, but every effort will be made to ensure that the public can adequately access the proceedings in real time by a technological means. At this time, I'm going to call the roll call to make sure everyone can be heard and we can hear everyone. And so I'm going to start with Shalini. Present. And Pat. Present. Mandy is present Pam. And Jennifer. So we are all present. There are we're going to move right into our agenda we have Rob here which is excellent because that's one of the first things on our items but we're going to take with care of one things first we're going to change the order of the agenda today for a little bit. We're going to do the calendar and then we're going to do article 14. And then if we have public will take public comment if not, we will move to the transition memo. And if there wasn't public, between those two to make public comment we'll try again after the transition memo is done. And then we'll do announcements we do not have minutes today to adopt. Hopefully we will have all of our outstanding minutes by the next meeting in February. And that we're going to start with the adoption of the 2022 regular meeting calendar that was in your packet. Are there any requested changes to that calendar. I am not seeing any so I didn't see it in the packet somehow or other I missed it, but I will I'm not too concerned. I didn't, I did not see it either. Let me put it up on the screen. Thank you. So that's the list it averages approximately two per month. I think, and the, there's an issue in November, because we're on Thursdays and TSO I believe has adopted a Thursday calendar. I think there's one Thursday obviously we can't use so so we and TSO will work out a November schedule when we get their pending. Who's got business type thing. Yeah, I think we already decided we'd give it to you. Just with that series is more important than we are, I mean, then TSO so I think we give it to them give it to you all already. Well, we're going to put it on here and we'll see I'll talk to the chair Dorothy, when we get closer to see who might need it more depending on who's got the things but we'll have to do November then. And then I'm just so you know I put the town room, although that one changed to March 31st town room for. So that one should say virtual for March 31st right now given our vote. So I'll change that but town room after that because of our vote and I don't believe there's been any passage of any extension of anything so that at the state level that might allow us to do something. But that's why it says town room at this point due to active votes so I'll fix the one from March 31st at some point it probably said April something. Is there any other requested changes or anything. So I'm going to make the motion to adopt the CRC meeting schedule as I'm going to say amended to amend that March 31st one to virtual. Is there a second. And I second. Okay, thank you. Is there any other further discussion. Seeing none. I'm just going to run. You just, you did run this by dirty, right. Because we have a set calendar from, and I didn't get a chance to look at this so I haven't compared the calendar but I'm assuming you've done that. She had this one when she made up hers. Okay, there you go. Yes. Okay, there you go. Thank you. So, we did confer. I see no other comments we're going to take a vote. And we're going to start with Pat. Hi. Mandy is an eye Pam. Hi. Jennifer. Hi. And, and Shalini. Yes. Okay, so that is adopted. Okay. I'm just going to say that unanimously. That then takes us to our first action item, which for the day will be. Article 14 temporary zoning is, it's not an action item. Sorry. It's a discussion item. We're going to start with article 14 temporary zoning. And there is going to be a general discussion. I've asked Rob more to join us for this discussion. And I'm just going to start with, I'm just going to start with, I'm just going to start with, sort of speaking, not, not any formal presentation, but speak briefly about his thoughts of on. What has worked well, not worked well, or what he would potentially like to see made permanent as we start this conversation. For those who are new to CRC, this was a carryover measure in a sense that. We're going to have a new effective date at the end of last year. So that it is a fact, not effective. End date, a sunset date of at the end of last year where we extended it a year to the end of this year. CRC when they were holding their hearing and discussion on making that recommendation. Thought it. If things were going to be made permanent that that discussion should happen sooner and the sooner rather than later, it would take time to. Be done. And that. So start that conversation early so that there is no rush at the end of the year to either have to extend this again. So that that can happen or. You know, be rushing to have those hearings for anything that might be made permanent. The thought was, if anything is going to be made permanent, that it be integrated into the actual zoning bylaw, that it be integrated into the actual zoning bylaw. And that was the conversation that happened last December and November when we were dealing with the extension. So this is the start of a new council, a new committee. So we're trying to start that conversation early to see where things may or may not go. And with that, I'm going to turn it over to Rob. To give us an update and a thoughts on his. On what, if anything, he would like to do with this council and any further changes. So Rob. Okay. Thanks. Thanks for having me. Just a little reminder about how this developed. It was mid 2020 when we brought the initial idea to the council and it was adopted for six months. We then extended it for the full year of 21. And then once again, as Mandy mentioned for 22. And then we also issued about 30 of these. Article 14. Permits, which most of them would have otherwise been a special permit. There's a few of those that might have been site plan review with the planning board, but most of those special permits and in fact, that included nine new food and drink establishments. So, you know, we, we feel like it really accomplished a lot and came in at a time that it was really needed. So for that, it worked really well. And then we also included the ability to expand or create new retail personal care establishment or food and drink establishments. It also included the ability to have accessory uses that are associated with those such as outdoor dining, live entertainment or even a drive through facility if needed. And it was pretty much limited to that scope. And then as COVID, you know, went on and we started to anticipate what might be needed. We, in the, the first extension amended the language to add medical uses and temporary uses. I'll talk a little bit more about temporary uses in a little bit. So, you know, we've had mostly special, which what would have been special permit projects that were able to be accomplished in a relatively short period of time and expense to the applicant. I'm going to start talking about temporary uses. And this is moving right into, you know, possible considerations for permanent changes to the bylaw. I have two that I am recommending. The first one is temporary uses. And this isn't really a new struggle for us with the bylaw. We've, we've never had the ability in the bylaw to authorize temporary uses and for years been, been noting how it would be nice to have that language in the bylaw. And, and, you know, non COVID related times, you know, this could be something like a farm that would like to offer the, their, their site, their property to a caterer to a restaurant to a music event for a day or weekend event. And we've been asked about this many, many times and never had the ability to permit it. So we, you know, we, we never took any effort. And I think all of you know, things happen, weddings, all kinds of things happen around places. We never, you know, took any effort to stop things from happening, but we could never say that you could actually do this and give them the authorization and work with them to do that, make sure they have proper toilets and lighting and, you know, really be involved with the process where it would be nice to be able to do that. What we found through the article 14 or there were other uses for other examples of where temporary uses could be useful, whether it's setting up the kiosk at CVS for testing and vaccines or tents at the library services and activities happening outdoors, something that might go on for months at a time, as long as months at a time, but with the intention of returning back to its original condition or state when that time was over. So my suggestion would be that we look at the possibility of incorporating temporary use provisions, possibly some criteria that would go along with those and it could be something that's introduced in the article three, probably pretty nicely. Should I just continue, Mandy, or do you want to talk about that first? Let's continue and hear them all and then we can ask questions and discuss them. Okay. So the other one is food and drink establishments. And in this, again, I'll say isn't new. You know, I've certainly been saying that I've felt in recent years that we didn't need to have special permits for food and drink establishments. I think we've gotten really good at permitting these. We have a very robust inspection program with health, fire, building inspectors that work with these establishments, our permit administrator that works through a lot of issues, our licensing coordinator that works with the Board of License Commissioners to ensure that, you know, proper ID checking equipment is in the establishment. So we've gotten really good at all of the things that I see the Zoning Board of Appeals case after case, you know, review and put as conditions to permits and work through the normal set, I would say, of either issues or potential impacts of the businesses in the particular area. And think that we could probably do this, you know, as a as a staff, you know, administrative approval in most cases, you know, leaving the work for the boards to be when there's really new development, new buildings, new parking lots being proposed, but restaurants coming and going in existing spaces. I feel like we could handle this with a good list of criteria in the bylaw. And like I said, it's, you know, the nine, nine examples of newest establishments. And then there's another, I don't know, 10 or 12 of existing establishments that have expanded during this time under Article 14. Some of them have been significant expansions. The spoke doubled in size of their capacity. Sackers has added a nice outdoor patio behind their property that you can't see unless you actually walk behind it, but it's worth checking out. We've done some modifications at the hangar pub. So there's just a nice list of good work that's happened out of Article 14, even with the existing businesses. And there's eight pending applications under Article 14 right now. Six of those are food and drink establishments. So, you know, I, and I, and I do want to say that. I think we should look at this, but we also need to be careful about a couple of things. When we do get into considering and possibly if we are drafting language to amend the bylaw, just to remind everyone that our bylaw is, is inclusive with its use classification. So in, in, in most cases, if the use classification is not listed in the bylaw, it's prohibited. That's not the way our bylaw works. Our bylaw lists, has a long list of use classifications. And then it says whatever else is proposed, it's my job to figure out which classification it most closely relates to. And that establishes the permitting path for that use. So we do want to think about things in our bylaw that, you know, aren't specifically addressed in a use classification. That might be something like a high, high capacity performance venue. It might even be a certain capacity of a bar or nightclub. I bring up from time to time adult entertainment. You know, we don't have that as a use classification in our bylaw. And if somebody brought that forward, I have to choose where that goes. So when we're thinking about making the, reducing the special permit requirement, we want to make sure we have a place for these use classifications that really need to be. Regulated by special permit. Where that discretionary power is still available. And not just administrative approval. So just, you know, just as a caution, if we chose that as a use classification, we'd have to choose where that goes. So when we're thinking about making the, that as a use classification, we'd have to choose where that goes. And just as a caution, if we chose to move forward with that discussion, I'd want to get into some of those items. Just to at least work through to decide if we should be making other adjustments and making sure we have places in the bylaw where those, those other uses might, might sit and just as an example, the Drake that you're all aware of. I had to pick a place for that. You know, I chose to put that into food and drink establishment. Maybe I chose to try to make that work a little harder because it was allowed under article 14. And then that would make the process move quicker and less costly to the applicant. But there really wasn't another place to put it, you know, there's, you know, there's a classification for arcades and bowling alleys, you know, that didn't seem to be the best fit. So there, you know, there just, there wasn't a really neat place to put that. So that ended up being treated as a food and drink establishment. So there could be, you know, other examples of that in the future that we just want to think a little bit about. So those are my two suggestions that are worth considering to me are worth considering. I do want to say that the reason why I'm not suggesting other ones like retail and personal care establishments is that those are allowed by site plan review. Almost in every district, I think there might be a couple of odd cases in the BN, but you know, most of us don't really think much of the BN anyway, district that required by special permit. So in a site plan review use, we already have administrative approval built into the bylaw when there's no major exterior change to the building or the site. So that already works really well. So if there's a retail establishment going into a storefront that already exists, even if they need to change the door, put up a sign, maybe some light fixtures, we can deal with that without having to go through the lengthy permitting process with the planning board in that case. So this would, you know, these other examples of food and drink establishments might align more with how we handle the site plan review waiver and administrative approval. Then I think the last one that we added in was medical uses that I do feel like that's really specific to COVID. And it's doing its job and has helped out in a couple of really important situations, but probably not needed for longterm change to the bylaw, at least at this point. The last thing I wanted to mention is that I feel like this extension of article 14 really should be the end of it. You know, this is temporary zoning and it'll be two and a half years. I think if we go much further, we start to really raise the question, is this temporary zoning anymore? So we want to be careful of that either, you know, as we come throughout the year, you know, we really would want to look at making significant changes to the temporary zoning. If we were thinking of continuing it, or ideally we would be incorporating maybe some permanent changes as you're talking about today. Thank you for that, Rob. Are there any questions for Rob. At this time or comments or discussion, we don't have to limit it to just questions. Well, I'll ask. Pam, you can go first. I'm trying to vainly define my cursor to raise my hand. I had a couple of questions and that was more. When I think of some of the temporary uses that might be helpful under, under affected uses. I was thinking funeral establishments and veterans, potential other entities that, that could have used some facilitation, I guess, for, you know, ease of, ease of treating patients, treating, you know, incoming clients. And then in the accessory uses, actually then in the temporary uses, again, I was actually really surprised that there wasn't a lot of, you know, a lot of, you know, a lot of, you know, a lot of, you know, a lot of, you know, a lot of recreation and daycare because those two seemed like really. That could really benefit from that, that outside kiosk or the, or the temporary tent kind of a thing. And I just wondered why those hadn't been included in the, in that consideration. Yeah. So, you know, there's a lot of recreational areas that are town controlled for, for temporary uses. The other thing is that the recreational and public use spaces are a lot by right. So they're, they're guest classifications or site plan review classifications. And as I mentioned, there's already a process for. To the site plan review uses minor alterations to a site. So, you know, there's a lot of recreational area in my mind would be relatively, would be small. So I think I would have normally, even before all this happened, would have considered that as administrative approval or waiver to site plan review anyway. Thank you. What about the funeral establishments and the vet? Yeah. Yeah. We didn't, we did not. We didn't consciously exclude those, you know, we didn't, we didn't, we didn't, we didn't, we didn't, we didn't, we didn't, we didn't, we didn't know from the, the consideration, but we didn't, we did not think to include those for a lot of what we were recommending and proposing in the amendment was based on what we were actually dealing with and work. The establishments we were working with and thinking of what we should, you know, everyone was asking, you know, I didn't, I didn't hear from any funeral homes. You know, I heard from, from investors of rental properties and rental properties. Thank you. Thanks, Kim. And thanks, Rob. So I'm going to ask my question, which is, you know, to me, this sounds great for changes to, to the bylaws, because, you know, over the last two and a half years, we've heard that it's worked well. There haven't been complaints about those administrate the food and drink establishments you have administratively approved. And all, and if they're going into existing buildings. I don't know if that makes sense to me, it makes sense. But the question I have is more practical, which is sort of next steps. Are you looking for CRC to say go forward with it? And if so, who's the one working on these changes? And is their capacity in the department to get it done sometime in the next year since, since there's a desire to not extend temporary zoning beyond this coming December. I think that's the best standpoint. Yes, I'm asking to, for the CRC or, you know, anyone who wants to take this on to consider these changes. And working to incorporate them as permanent changes. I'll also ask Chris to help comment on staff capacity, because I think that's an ongoing discussion and, you know, tasks that keep coming up for staff. I'm not sure that's all resolved or can even be answered today. But I think it, you know, from my perspective, we'd want to. We'd want to help as much as we can to accomplish this. Chris. So in terms of article 14, Rob has taken the lead. You know, he's drafted the two amendments that we've had. And so I'm not really entirely sure of what would be involved in drafting more, but I'm assuming Rob would have a large. Part of it. And so I would count on him to, you know, do a lot of that work. I'm not, I'm not thinking that it's going to require, you know, a tremendous amount of work on the part of planning staff, either graphically or creating text. I could be wrong about that. So maybe Rob could describe a little more about what he's thinking. So yeah, I think what we need is. We need article three, the table to be adjusted under the food and drink establishment category. We have a class one, two and three. You know, so I think there's a, you know, we need to evaluate whether or not we need the, the multiple classes of food and drink establishment. And if those are the right classes, there's criteria that's built into each of those. That may no longer be needed. And there's new criteria that could be added that is more in line with what we do now when we actually issue these permits. So I think there's, you know, an adjustment to the table. And of course changing the permitting path from special permit to site plan review, I think would be the recommendation so that they could benefit then benefit from that waiver process, that administrative approval process that I mentioned, but not, not eliminate the site plan review process for a new establishment that's being built. So that's one that I think that would be the restaurants and food and drink assessments. And then the, the text, there'd be a set of texts that would go into article three, the earlier portion of article three, not in the table that would authorize temporary uses. And, you know, I could see a list of criteria, you know, six to 10 items or something. I think that's relatively easy. And, you know, in, at least right now, I would say it could probably apply to almost any situation under the right conditions and a permit and limitations and knowing that it returns back to its original condition. Of course, as we talk about it, maybe there'd be an exception or two that we'd want to work in there, but that'd be text and article three. I'm going to go to Chris and then I'll recognize Pam and I'm going to go to Jennifer. So it's mostly text and it's not going to be graphics or analysis of how many of these we would have or density or, you know, doing 3D graphics about how big they would be or anything like that. It would just be text. And so I think, you know, we could fit that into our work plan for the next year. In addition is I'm imagining that as a result of this, there would be fewer applications to the zoning board of our work plan. So I think that would be one of the things that we would want to do in the future. I think that would be one of the skills. So that aspect of our work would, you know, maybe diminish a bit and allow us to work on this. As well. Thank you for that Chris Pam and then Jennifer. Thanks. Rob, could you give some examples of, of the criteria that you're thinking about? You said there might be eight or 10 criteria that you would use. Can you just. What do you mean for temporary uses, Pam? For temporary uses, I'd want to address items like parking. Surfaces, signage, lighting.  Toilet and hand washing facilities.  So that's one of the things that would go along with an event that we're presuming and envisioning that the public would be. Gathered at, you know, there could be a tent on the, on the field or something like that. So yeah, those, those types of items. And there's probably a few more. Thank you. Yep. Thanks. Jennifer. Thank you. I just did kind of general curiosity question. For your experience over the last year or two has. Has it helped to, you know, sort of demonstrate what. How we could fast track some, not fast track, but how some of the, when they're not temporary, but as new businesses located in Amherst, we always hear that it's a very, you know, can be a burdensome process as it probably should be. But if this revealed some areas where we can loosen maybe some of that process. That would make, you know, even doing, you know, opening the business here, perhaps some more appealing or seem like there's fewer hurdles. Yeah, I mean, yeah, I do. I think it showed it's shown a few things that shown that, you know, it shows what we can do. So, you know, as, as staff supporting these boards and committees, you know, we pick up on, you know, the way they handle certain items, the things that they're really focused on and care a lot about. And, you know, we're able to translate that and work that into our review of these applications over the last two years.   You know, it's a different checklist for a cafe than it is from a, you know, a nightclub or a restaurant that's open till 1 a.m. So I think we've learned that, you know, we're really good at reviewing these things because we also then inspect. So even after, you know, the zoning board spends a couple of nights working out the issues of a permit and granting a special permit, we're then charged with, you know, seeing it through and inspecting the work that's being constructed or altered. And then we also do regular inspections are, you know, our health department is in there twice a year to do inspections, our fire department and building inspector are doing joint inspections every year of these establishments. And sometimes there's other additional inspections, you know, for, for the fire department safety requirements on the large capacity locations. So we've, we've, I think we found that we can do this quickly.  And we, you know, when I say quickly, it still takes a lot of time. You know, an applicant will spend weeks and sometimes months with staff before they even make the submission to the board.  And then there's appeal period, you know, that follows before they can actually get their permit or authorization to use for use. And, you know, what we hear over and over again is that. This is not only the time involved is, you know, concerning. It's costly. The application process, the notification that needs to go out through a butters. The professional consultants, although, you know, not having to drive to Amherst at the moment, probably saves them quite a bit. But, you know, usually the team would show up in the town room for one or two nights.  And I do feel like we're able to, you know, look for another option.   We have for the almost 10 years that I've worked here. So that's probably not going to change. So it's, you know, to me it was worth, you know, considering, you know, the lesser path for to get to the place, the same place that we want to be with these permits. You and your team have done an amazing job. I feel like all these outdoor eateries are like the silver lining of COVID that we kind of got to that. Might not have gotten that, you know, without. So that's one thing I think everyone in Amherst agrees on, but it's been a success. Thank you, Jennifer. Shalini. Yeah, I would agree that I think I agree with these changes that Rob is recommending and it will really help to shift the narrative that our town is hard and cumbersome to start small business in. And then one thing that I think is really important, is to start small business in. And then one thing that I wanted to bring up was the inspection criteria themselves. Like I wonder if some like we want to have really high standards of inspection, but revisiting them to see if they need to be revised. For example, this is a very old example of a hairdresser that I used to go to and Amherst and she moved out and said she went to the hair salon because the inspection requirements with so much higher like requiring, for example, a copper wash basin versus it being stainless steel and which is equally hygienic, but you know, and that's, I mean I may be totally distorting the story, but you know what I'm saying, like the criteria, which because we have new materials or whatever, they may have changed, so this might be a good opportunity to also revisit the inspection criteria. And the other thing that I was thinking was also as we are designing or thinking, rethinking the criteria to bring in the climate action lens and social justice lens. I know it doesn't automatically come to my mind, but I'm just thinking like if you're looking at lighting or things like that and maybe even inviting either Stephanie who is already in a staff to take a look because when they look at it, they can instantly say, oh, here, here, here, we can put in some criteria that may not be burdensome, but it's like a win-win for everyone. And similarly for social justice, I know that the bid has been working really closely with Hazel and you know, just like people who have a different language or whatever and this may not be related at all to the conversations we are having, but I just thought that I'll keep bringing that up. I remember Darcy used to do that and she's not here, but I'm hoping to be that person and all of us be that person that we keep bringing back the environmental and the social justice lens as we make these changes. Thank you, Shalini. What I have heard from the committee is that at least briefly, I haven't obviously heard from everyone that this is potentially a path we might want to pursue. So my question to Rob and Chris right now is, would you be more comfortable with this sort of, sort of endorsement of pursuing the path, right? Obviously there's no, you know, approval or anything right now. This is just a conversation to discuss and see a path forward. And if that would come from the town council through sort of how we did the zoning priorities last year of a direction to the town manager to work on this, would that make you more comfortable if we brought that to the council and then ask the council to make a vote? Would it be more comfortable if just CRC said, hey, we think this is a great path to go? What would you like to see? Because I'm thinking maybe we can figure out a motion today based on our conversation. If this committee is ready to get you whatever sort of. Support you're hoping for from either CRC or the council to move forward on something like this. Chris. I would be a little concerned if it went to the council in the sense of bring it to the council, then the council says, you know, we'll refer this to X body and come back in 90 days, because I think, you know, at this point in the year, we don't really know all the different things we're going to be working on and to put deadlines on us. I think is would be challenging. I don't know how Rob feels about that, but I would prefer to just have kind of a sense of your going along with this and then we will work on it. And when it's ready, you know, we would bring it to you and then it could start on its normal path to town council and then going out to the, whatever the appropriate committee is. That's my feeling.  We want to present this change, but maybe we can work through it with the CRC first before kind of falling into a formal process with deadlines and referrals. And, you know, I'm sure along the way we can, you know, also bounce it off the planning board in an informal way for advice and, you know, update before it comes to them for review too. So yeah, that if that worked, you know, we could work on this, get it into our schedule. Chris and I can work, you know, on getting drafts together. And then when they're ready to talk about, we could ask to for some time here. Jennifer. That was kind of my question at what is the protocol in terms of it going to the planning board of the planning board or the zoning board of appeal with that. I'll attempt to answer that one because we've tried over the last three years to figure out a process. And so, so how some of the, and what I'll use is it's not a set process. I will say that despite having flow charts that I can point you to of how things might work. It's, it's sort of still a process in. A formal process. Evolving process and how things like the mixed use buildings that made it through the council in the last year, the apartments, the ADUs, the planning department staff worked on some changes, brought them to both the planning board and the CRC committees. the changes were being developed as the changes were being developed. And then when the two boards either hit. Sort of hit their own sort of, I don't know the word I'm looking for, but sort of. End of commenting, I would say, even if those boards disagreed on those commentings. At some point, the planning staff said, we're not, we're not progressing with a draft. We were where we want to be. We're going to bring it to the council for that formal referral for hearing recommendation and eventual vote. Then it went, went to the council, made those recommendations, then it went for the hearings and all. And so that, that was a process that. I mean, as chair of CRC, I would say. Had some difficulties, but also worked. We were working through things like. When the comments from the planning board and CRC differ. The planning staff's in a quagmire. Who do they go with? So, so there were some difficulties that, that still need worked out, but I think. That for some of the stuff worked well and for some of the amendments didn't work as well as what I would say. So there's no set process. We're still working on how to do this. But those, those particular items were specifically worked on after the council. Told directed the manager on what the council zoning priorities were. So that would be a difference than what would be going on here. If we decide to say, you know, the process that Chris and Rob just laid out, I would definitely report that to the council. I would report it in a. A physical report or written report and also an oral report. So that would be a difference. So that would be a difference. With some requests that if there's counselors that, you know, really object to something like that, please let me know. So I can bring that back to CRC so that we're not, the goal is we're not working on things that don't have any shot of passing the council. That doesn't mean something will automatically pass a council. But, but we don't want something that is only supported by three counselors. So that would be a difference. I think that would be a difference. If there would be a lot of opposition somewhere other than CRC. As chair, I'd want to know so that I can talk to the planning staff or talk to the council president about, oh, maybe we do need a council conversation. Pam and then Pat. Thanks. I would, I would like to see the role of CRC as being. I would like to see the role of CRC. I would like to see the role of CRC. I think it looks like there's some really rational reasons to update table three. We'd like to keep some flexibility in our administrative reviews of certain things. And, but that, that some of the working parts and pieces really seem like they should go to the planning board and the planning board, but I think that's just the role of the planning board. And I think that's the role of the planning board. I think that's the role of the planning board. I would like to see some of the non work that flushes out a document that we can then come back and look at. I don't feel like the CRC. Should be involved in each of the little details. At this level. And I think that's the role of the planning board. I thought it was the plant, the role of planning board, but I'd be very happy to lend my support tonight. To have that go ahead. Thank you, Pam. Pat. Yeah, I was just going to say, I feel very comfortable going forward with Rob and Chris's suggestion. About them working on it. And then as they, as they're ready sharing and having CRC reflect on it. I haven't thought so much about what should happen with the planning board. But I. One of the things that I get frustrated with is. You know, how complicated and it is to get something done. And so we have two people here saying we want to go forward. We think, you know, from what we've learned from what we've been doing, we've got some clear ideas. And they're saying, let us take the timeframe we need and then share that with you. And I'd like to see that happen. I'd like to really see it come from them. Yeah, I think we had agreed that there are three different ways that bylaws zoning bylaws can change one is coming from the planning staff. And one is from CRC and one is from planning board. And I think this is initiative is being led by the staff and you know, we just want you all to know that we fully support that. And I think where I personally do think that I'm totally okay with what's been suggested by Rob and Chris. But like what Pat was saying, that I think planning board brings its own unique skill sets and experiences. So bringing them in for those aspects that they, you know, that they have more expertise than we have in CRC. So I don't think it's going to be a problem. I think we can just start working on it. And when we feel like we need to move it forward to the planning board, we can, you know, pass it to them for that project. Just let's get, let's get started. Okay. So, so what I'm hearing is, well, Pam, go first and then I'll summarize. Okay. I was going to say, I'm ready to pass it to the planning board. I think that's where the nuts and bolts should be happening. And if we took a motion tonight to, to make, you know, that make that move, I'd be very happy about that if that's how you want to structure it. Okay. So what I was actually going to suggest is I think we might not need a particular motion at all. It, I think we've heard that this committee is supportive of something happening on the planning department's timeline. I was going to suggest that given what I've heard about planning board information or input, not information input from the planning board, potentially before the CRC or as a potentially different type of input than CRC would offer, that I will be in touch with Chris Robb and as they go forward, I think what we're saying is go forward with what Rob suggested and work on it on the timeline that fits into you guys' schedule, knowing that we don't want to have to extend temporary zoning in December. So, so in some sense there is a deadline, but that deadline is to not have to extend temporary zoning. If it all possible. But that I will work with Chris and Robb and Doug as planning board chair Dave Zomek to figure out what the best sort of flow and types of comments where CRC might best contribute to the development or, you know, comment on the development and the drafts versus where the planning board and what that timeline is, I'll work with Pam, the vice chair of this committee to figure all of that out and we'll have that conversation as it's coming out of staff and they're seeking feedback to figure out which place at which time is the best place to get that feedback from this committee. Does that sound like a plan or does this committee really want to take a vote? Shalini just gave me a thumbs up for that plan. Others, is that a good one? Jennifer. On mute, please. In terms of the planning board, would it, I mean, could there ever just be a report or just so they know what we're doing? Is that something that it would be appropriate to do at this time? So I would personally hope that Chris or Robb upstates the planning board on what they're working on zoning wise in that sense. Chris and then Robb and then Pam. That's what I was going to say. Thank you. And Pam. I would, if I was going to ask if Chris and Robb feel more comfortable having a vote from us in order to proceed. I was told in my one on one with Paul Backelman at the very beginning that they really didn't like to work on things unless they had a motion, a second and a vote. And if that makes them comfortable, then just tell us yes and I would be happy to make a motion. Thank you. Rob and Chris, do you want a motion? Chris. I don't think we need a motion unless Rob does. I feel like we've had this conversation. It's going to get into the minutes and it's been a public meeting. We have two members of the public here. And so it's, it's sort of out there that you agree that we can work on this. And I don't think we need a motion. Rob. I agree. Okay. Thank you so much, Rob. Before you go, I'm going to move to public comment in case. So I think your particular part is done for today, but if you have the time, please stay for public comment in case anyone who's making public comment. Has a comment related to article 14 versus some other issue. And so at this point, we're going to move on to public comment. If you are public comments on matters within the jurisdiction of the CRC are going to be accepted right now for up to three minutes a person. And if you would like to make a public comment at this time, please raise your hand and I will recognize you in turn. Seeing no hands. We're going to close the opportunity for public comment at this time. Thank you so much, Rob, for joining us today to talk about article 14. We look forward to seeing the results of that at least by the end of the year. Hopefully. And in whatever way. Pam and I am further discussions outside of meetings for scheduling purposes happen. So thank you so much, Rob. And at this time we're going to move on to transition. A general discussion. We started last meeting with a discussion of. Or an update on design guidelines. And, but there's a bigger part than just design guidelines, obviously in the transition memo. And so we're going to move to that discussion. I'm going to basically. We had two documents. Actually, let me do it this way. We had two documents in the packet, the actual transition memo. And then Chris Brestrup was kind enough to provide. I'm going to talk about the planning board. I'm going to talk about the planning board. I'm going to talk about this with an update or status. I guess it was an Excel sheet that's gave a status of the zoning priorities that the council voted last year. And where they were, this was a document that was provided to the planning board at the request of the planning board chair. And so she provided it to me. And I thought it might be helpful to this committee. To see. I'm going to offer Chris the opportunity. To say anything about those priorities that she would potentially like. And then I'm just going to open the transition memo discussion up to the committee. I, as chair, don't really have any thoughts on where this discussion might go. So I'm going to, I'm going to leave it up to those who wanted it on the agenda. To, to sort of help guide the discussion. So first Chris. So I'm happy to go through this spreadsheet. If you think it would be helpful. I think it might be because we were given a slate of things to work on. And many of the things we did work on, some of which we actually got passed by the town council and some of which we didn't. So if you think it would be helpful, Mandy, Joe, I'd be happy to do that. I can't share my screen. I can share the screen. I'm going to ask our committee members. Would they like Chris to specifically go through the Excel sheet and if anyone does, please raise your hand and or, you know, raise your hand. If you want it specifically gone through, if not, we will just open up to questions and discussions, not just about the Excel sheet about the transition memo in general. So I think given that I'm not seeing any hands that we might be able to avoid a specific run down of the Excel sheet and move on to just discussion and any, any questions on not just the Excel sheet, transition memo or anything people want to say. About transition and thoughts about what, I guess, the last CRC and the council then thought. We potentially should discuss or keep on or not. Chris, you have raised your hand. I have. Yeah. I just wanted to give a sentence or two about things that the planning department and the planning board need to work on. And I thought you might be interested in those things and then we can kind of fit the other things around it. So in terms of, you know, need to work on flood maps are very important and I'm hoping that we are finally coming into the home stretch. I've been talking to the town council about flood maps ever since 2018, but in fact, the planning department has been talking about them since 2012. That's when we started working on this project. And then when we finished, we've gotten through the last appeal process that ended on December 9th, and we did not receive any appeals. And my understanding is now that FEMA is going to issue a letter of final determination. Sometime we're expecting it in March and it will be sent to Lynn Griezmer and I believe I'll receive a copy. And I'm hoping that we'll be able to do that. And I'm hoping that we'll be able to do that. And I believe that. FEMA is happy with the flood maps. And then we need to start the six month compliance period and the six month compliance period includes. Explanation to town council. What is this project all about. Presenting the flood maps to you. And then there's a component of. I think it's going to be on February 28th. I think it's going to be a great job of working on that text. And he's going to be putting it together and bringing it to the planning board and bringing it to you. What we're expecting is that we'll have a presentation. I think it's going to be on February 28th. To kind of bring you all up to speed on the flood map project because I'm sure that people who've heard about it and. You know, I think it's going to be on February 28th. I think it's going to be on February 28th. I think it's going to be on February 28th as well as they did the week after they heard about it anyway. So, so that is a really important project. And the reason it's so important is because if the board, if the council doesn't adopt the new flood maps, then we won't be in the flood insurance rate. System anymore. So people whose properties are subject to flooding won't be able to get flood insurance. So we need to, you know, make sure that the town council adopts the maps and the text. So that's in my opinion, number one, number two would be the solar bylaw and the solar assessment. And we've been talking a lot about that internally. And I spoke with the planning board about it yesterday last night. That's going to take some effort. We're hoping to hire a consultant. We will hire a consultant to work with us to. You know, we're going to have a lot of land in Amherst to determine where is it appropriate to put solar installations. And this is going to involve, you know, a lot of analysis of really the whole town and, you know, figuring out which lands can accept such a thing, which lands doesn't make sense to put it on. We can't put it in the wetland. We probably can't put it on APR land. So there are going to be a lot of limitations, but we're going to have a lot of, we're going to have a lot of, we're going to have a lot of land in Amherst. They call that the solar site assessment. And we also need to come up with a solar bylaw, which will be part of the zoning bylaw, which will set out criteria for how. Solar installations can be approved either by the planning board or by the zoning board of appeals. And they will probably be allowed in most zoning districts, but they will be allowed to do that. So that's part of the zoning bylaw that will show where it's appropriate to have these solar installations. So that was brought to us by. Councillor D'Angelo's and Councillor Griezma. They felt that was important enough to, just to initiate a solar moratorium. The moratorium, if it passes, will probably end in May of 2023. So we're going to work on the solar bylaw and the solar mapping. Pretty rigorously this year. It's going to involve a lot of public input. And then we have demolition delay, which we started to talk to town council and the CRC about last year. It didn't get Eric or get very far. I don't actually think we brought it to town council, but we did bring it to CRC and the planning board. And this has to do with preservation of our historic. Buildings in town. And it's very important to, to figure out how to do that appropriately. We have a bylaw that is kind of out of date, and we really need to update that. So last night, we had a presentation to the planning board about the demolition delay bylaw, which we're now calling preservation of significant buildings, I believe, but that's going to take a fair amount of work and, and we want to get that done soon. We also have this big project that thank you for approving. Thank you to the town council for last year, for approving the money to allow us to do this, but we're going to be working on design guidelines and design standards for downtown. And I know many people are very eager that we, excuse them. I don't know why my phones are ringing. I must be a very important person. So anyway, we recognize the importance of this. This project we've got an RFP that we're working on. We're hoping to get the RFP out. You know, maybe it'll take us four weeks, maybe it'll take us six weeks, but certainly by the end of this spring, we're hoping that we have a consultant in place on that. And that's again, going to be a really big project with a lot of public forums, you know, having meetings of the public to get their input on things and, you know, and trying to figure out with our consultant, how far does this go? Does this go all the way to UMass? And does it go to the railroad line on main street? And does it go as far south as Amherst college? Or what's the area that we're focusing on? And then are we going to divide it into sub areas and does each sub area get treated differently? And so it is a huge project. So those four things are going to take up a lot of time. And it's going to take up a lot of time of the planning department and the planning board. So I just wanted to set that stage for you. Because when we start talking about other things, you know, if we talk about smaller things, that's one thing, but many Joe and others will remember that when we talked about something that we thought was relatively small and straightforward last year, say, you know, eliminating footnote M from the RG district. It just, you know, it was a big issue. And also the BL district dealing with the BL district and how to get more residential units into BL. So these things that we consider, oh, you know, that's a pretty small project really blossom. So anyway, I just wanted to make sure that you knew about those four things that were, that are really important to the planning department and the planning board things that we feel like we have to work on. So we don't have a choice. And so all the other things will have to be kind of like, you know, nested in around those. So that's all I wanted to say. Thank you for that summary, Chris. That was actually really helpful for me. And hopefully for the other committee members. So at this time, committee members, comments, thoughts about transition memo and other things. Pam. That's, that's a hefty list even, even though that's just four items, it's a, it's a, it's a load. I can, I know exactly what's going to happen here. And I'm, I'm really appreciative of the fact that preservation by-law is getting discussed and the solar, the solar by-law, which I think will, people have been very concerned that it will slow things down. But my gut feeling is that once it's in place, it'll allow processing to happen much more rapidly because there'll be some good guidelines. So I think that truly is an important one. And then the design guidelines. I am very happy to hear that that's happening. And I think to be very honest, there's so many of the other residual zoning topics that were, that were on the list that were brought up before, but they really are. They're really secondary to having the guidelines established. So, so having hearing that, you know, priority number four is design guidelines and standards. That's very complex. But I think again, if we do a reasonably good job with that, it too will help us. I think kind of move through some of the, the finer details more quickly in the long run. So it's kind of take our time to do it right. And that'll help us in the long run. So thanks. Thanks for that ambitious schedule. Jennifer. Thank you. And I do, you know, echoing what Pam said, that's those four items are a heavy lift. So it was, it's really helpful hearing that. I maybe get jumping too much into the weeds right now, but just when I read the transition memo, I guess what popped out for me is I just hope we can be mindful of maybe not doing a piecemeal, but having a holistic approach to the items that we decide. If, you know, that we're going to carry over from the last council session, because as I was reading through, I mean, like I saw on the September 29th email that from last year on page four, it talks about, you know, lifting the cap on apartments and that, you know, in the RG district, because of the dimensional table regulations, you know, that there shouldn't be a worry if the cap is left because, you know, it's still required that there be a certain, you know, number of acreage per size of the building. But then kind of when you read the November 30th memo, it talks about changing the dimensional regulation tables. So my concern is just if we do a piecemeal and don't do it holistically, that the justification for some changes because there's protections in place, but if we lift those protections, then, you know, we, the justification for making the initial change is no longer there. So I would just, you know, when we get to the point more in the weeds where we're looking, you know, at exactly, you know, which items we're going to carry over that, we have that holistic approach because there's, you know, some things that kind of contradict each other when we get into the fine print. Thanks. Thanks, Shalini. Yeah, talking about a holistic approach, there is a framework called multi solving. And the idea is that we focus on solutions that solve multiple problems at the same time. And, you know, we all have agreed as a town council at least, which reflects the town residents that we have certain goals in mind, like let's say affordable housing, environment and climate change, social justice, you know, just to name a few. So when we are applying a lens to these solutions and what we're doing, I think it's important to keep in mind and economic development. Maybe that's the fourth one. So keeping in mind all of these and seeing. And I think that is what we were doing without saying so publicly, but I think making it public like how, what is the framework we're using to think about these and, and how they solve all these different issues. I think we'll give us some sort of structure and a shared language. And process to move forward. Thank you, Shalini. Yeah. Yeah, I forgot to mention one of the other items that, that has been on the books is sort of a broadening view of the parking, parking requirements downtown parking opportunities downtown. And I know the, the parking facility overlay district. Was passed last December. And I think there were a number of counselors at that time who spoke up and said, yeah, I'm supporting this now, but I really do also want to have a, a more inclusive look at the other person, any other parcels, including the boat with garage as part of that package for the, the capacity and opportunity for parking facilities. So we look beyond just the one parcel to whatever the town can offer. From that, and that is something that may tie into the design guidelines or at least the discussion on what we want the downtown to look like. But I, I do want to give a heads up to the planning staff. And Dave that, you know, that's something that I think is going to be coming down the pike as well. And it might, it might be a little bit like the solar bylaw, but so just to put on the books and make a note of that. Thanks. Dave. Thanks, Mandy. No, and thank you, Bam, for, for bringing up that, reminding us about that parking piece. I had the opportunity actually to spend an hour with Rob and Chris this morning and kind of did a primer on this very conversation. So I think Chris really, you know, really summarize things quite well. And I guess my, my thoughts on this transition memo to our, our, I guess I'm hoping Mandy that, you know, the transition memo and your communication with Lynn. And Anna and other council members is, you know, I think it's really imperative that we all think about, you know, what is the collective workload both of the council, but also of staff. So, you know, as, as, and, and this is our exact list that we talked about three hours ago, Rob and Chris and I, with a few additions actually flood maps. A demo delay, which is now the new name. And I didn't write down the whole thing that the historical commission now calls it, but preservation bylaw, if you will. Solar bylaw, siting study design guidelines, form based code. We have parking as Pam, you summarize just a moment ago. We also know that the council is interested in some changes to the rental bylaw, the rental permitting. So we're beginning at the, in January of February now to, to put together this work, work plan, if you will for the council, which translates into a work plan. At least what I see here for the conservation and development and functional area. So I just want to kind of be mindful of how much we're proposing to take on. We learned some lessons with seven zoning amendments in 2021 and, and kudos to everybody who, who moved those all forward and did all that work, but it was a tremendous amount of work for the board, lots and lots of additional meetings for the CRC, the, the town council, and especially the planning board, the planning board, I don't, I think the planning board may have set a record for the number of meetings they had in 2021. So I think we need to think about workload. We also need to think really carefully about scheduling and sequencing because there's a, there's, you know, you can get some of these things on the tarmac, if you will, a plane taking off, but there's a number of steps that need to happen. Chris mentioned one of them say with the solar, well with the design guidelines or the solar bylaw, we actually need to hire people to bring them on board to work with us. The solar siting study, we need to bring somebody on board to work with us. So I think it's imperative that we really, I hope work with Lynn and, and I don't know if this is on your retreat schedule for the 12th, but really look at the next 12 to 16 months at least and say, how do we chart a path forward?  They get referred. Can we keep up with, with the pace? So just putting out a cautionary of let's, let's do some planning here before we launch on any one thing. But it's an exciting less, no doubt about it and things we need to get done for the community. Thanks, Dave. Chris. I wanted to mention in regard to what Pam brought up about parking that the planning staff has put in a request for. Some money for, from the capital budget. I forget if it's 20 or 30,000, I think it might be 30, but anyway, it's for the purpose of evaluating a boltwood garage and to see if it can. Can accommodate another story or two. You know, we need to look at that structurally to determine, I know it was originally designed to hold at least one more story, but we don't know if that will meet today's structural requirements, et cetera. So we've, we've put that money in the capital request and we hope that we will get that money and be able to hire a consultant to do that in terms of the other. I think there was another location on Amity street that was looked at and that may be more, you know, kind of a something that the planning department can look at if, if we are asked to look at it. And, you know, we can spend some time trying to figure out how many spaces might be able to go there, what the circulation pattern might be, et cetera. So, you know, that's a project that we could conceivably take on. Again, I would want to hear that somebody, namely CRC or a town council or somebody thought that was a good idea for us to do. And then we would spend the time on it. Thank you, Chris. So I've been listening. It's quite the list. And as Dave said, I myself am quite mindful of how much work. We put on the planning staff last year with those zoning priorities. And, and it wasn't just the planning staff, as Dave said, it was planning board, it was CRC. It was, it was everyone. And I'm not sure I want to repeat that crazy schedule. So, so hence you'll hear my questions. Some of my questions are about capacity and ability to do stuff and all. But, you know, there's certain things that I'd like to see. I'm looking at the transition memo. And there's one thing that wasn't really on the transition memo that is part of the referral that we have to deal with and this will probably be part of our next meeting for CRC. But I'd like the planning staff to be thinking about it potentially for the next meeting is our comprehensive housing policy that the council passed. Because, you know, everything that's been talked about so far doesn't necessarily address the need for more housing. And I'm not saying it doesn't. I'm not saying it does. But, but one of the things CRC in terms of the referrals we have was to refer the council comprehensive housing policy to CRC for implementation. So one of the things we have to start and to the manager for implementation. And so one of the things we have to start talking about is what is getting implemented? What's that timeline? What's the first focus? What's the second focus? What departments are those focuses and things like that. And obviously we haven't had that conversation, but as CRC, I would like to see CRC working on implementing or figuring out a plan for what the council's role in implementing comprehensive housing policy is, or what other departments that might have capacity that aren't necessarily the planning department, right? Because there might be things that can be done that aren't focused on planning department or centered in planning department. So that's a conversation for next time, but I want us to start thinking about we're not just zoning. We're also housing. We're also sustainability per charge. And are there things we can be doing there that aren't necessarily planning department that deals with what Shalini was saying about solutions to solve multiple problems. And in looking at the transition memo, beyond that housing policy item of are there zoning things that could fit into capacity wise, there was some conversation topics to have. So I think we should be able to hear the committee's thoughts on these conversation topics to see whether we want to have those conversations or whether we should sort of let those fall by the wayside or drop them versus the zoning priorities, because I know we've been stuck on them. And one of them is economic development and use of public space. This may not be a, it's probably not solely a CRC item. It may be a TSO item. A CRC may say it belongs solely in TSO. So I think we should be able to hear the committee's thoughts on that. I think we should be able to hear the commissioners on the weekends or throughout for outdoor dining for other outdoor spaces. You know, there were a couple other things in here. That deal do with, do deal with zoning, but I'm small starter homes that deals with that. But of these conversation topics, I know I've always been interested in outdoor dining and outdoor spaces and use there. Is that something we want to pass off to TSO? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And then I'd like to know whether the planning department thinks they have any capacity for anything other than what was mentioned today. Such that if we discuss something with housing that might need a zoning by law change, or if it had to retreat, the council comes up with some other zoning issues. Is there capacity or do you think there's capacity? And if not. Who might have capacity or not. Right. Yeah. So the other question, particularly to Dave and Chris is. Is there even any other capacity versus what you just listed for anything additional that the council. May come up with as a priority. And then to my committee members, things about the, the conversation topics. Chris and then Dave. So I wanted to just mention that. In terms of the comprehensive housing policy, there are a number of strategies that some of which we are already working on. And some of which we've already accomplished. For instance, one of them was to pass a more robust inclusionary zoning bylaw. So we've already done that. So I think, you know, if we go through the comprehensive housing policy, we can go through it and say, Oh, yes, we're working on that. You know, the Belcher town road, East street school project. So I think it's a good effort to, you know, provide more affordable housing. We're always seeking out spots for more affordable housing. We will probably get another. Well, anyway, I'm not going to go down that rabbit hole, but I just wanted to say that. Of that comprehensive housing policy, if we went through it one by one, we could probably say, yeah, done that, done that, done that are doing this. So I think that's information that I would like to share with you. The other thing is, sure, we have, we're not only going to be working on these four things, but we also have permitting responsibilities. So we need to consider, you know, balancing the permitting responsibilities and the project and the zoning. And when, you know, something comes in like, I'm going to give you an example. One 32 North Hampton road. That was the Valley CDC project to house 28, formerly homeless or low income people. That took a tremendous amount of work on the part of the planning department, going to meetings, Nate, Maureen, me, Rob. And, you know, over months at a time. So we don't know if we're going to get something like that, probably not on that scale, probably, we haven't heard of any. No, that's not true. Belcher town road and East street school, that's going to be the same kind of thing. So when that comes in the door and it becomes a zoning board, special permit application, comprehensive permit application, excuse me, that's going to take all hands on deck focusing on that, making sure it gets done right. So, you know, yes, we have zoning and yes, we have projects like the North common that we're going to be working on, but we also have these kind of unknowns in terms of, permitting and they kind of, you know, just walk in the door when they, when they want to. So we have to, I can't look ahead. I can't, I don't have a crystal ball about which kinds of projects like that are going to come to us in the next year, but that's all part of the, the capacity that we have to do things. So if I say, yeah, we have the capacity to do for other zoning amendments and then some big comprehensive permit comes in, you know, that kind of goes out the window. So I just wanted to make you aware of that. And by the way, just to also make you aware, you'll be the first to know we did receive four preliminary subdivision applications for Coles properties up in North Amherst. We received them today. So we're going to be looking at those and bringing those to the planning board. But that's, you know, that's another big thing that we have to work through. So yeah. I don't know if that answers your question, but it shares my, my thought process. That certainly helped Chris.  I'm confused. You can make a comment if you do. I was just confused. Transition.  And as Chris said, you know, we're already working on that. I mean, there's a lot of exciting things happening on the housing front that. Yes. Are coming out of all the discussions we've had over the last couple of years with regard to housing, but, um, you know, as Chris mentioned, you know, we're, we're, we're poised to move forward with East streets, the East street school site and Belcher town road site. There'll be some announcements coming in the, in the weeks ahead on that. Um, we're looking at, um, we're assessing town land that we currently own that could be used for affordable housing. Um, Rob and I in particular are working on some very creative options. Uh, that have come on the radar screen in the last month or two or three, uh, for potential other projects. You may recall that we took a very, um, you know, somewhat, uh, bold and aggressive step to go after the, uh, Belcher town road, uh, property. We paid about $730,000 for that. And combined East street school site and the Belcher town road site into one RFP. We are, uh, the town is now, um, uh, assessing those responses to that RFP. We're, we're, we're very excited about where we are in that process. And, um, as Chris said, that will result in a 40 B process that the town needs to manage. Um, we also have the ARPA funds. So there are, there's $2 million in ARPA funds that we need to move forward on. There's 1 million for housing and there's 1 million for homelessness. And, and there may be some, some, you know, interaction between those funds and opportunities we have, uh, with land and buildings in town. So I feel very good about, um, where we are with, with the, with the comprehensive housing plan. We're not sitting back on our, on our, on our hands, waiting for. Direction on that. We're moving forward. So. The short answer to Mandy's question of a few moments ago, I think Chris is so diplomatic and, and very optimistic. I honestly think, and, and we talked about this, Chris, Rob, and I a couple of hours ago, we have enough work to do for the next six months. I, I am really cautious and hesitant to add to say we have capacity to add other things. If something's got to fall off the wagon here, we, we are going to be going full tilt for the next six months to just get what we've talked about in the last 30 minutes initiated and started. It doesn't mean that any of those are going to be done in six months, but hiring consultants, moving forward with the, the zoning articles, all of the, the things, um, you know, that we talked about all around the edges, all these studies. And in addition, as Chris mentioned, um, just the, um, the, the regulatory work that we need to do when applicants apply. Um, so I think the plate is very full right now, unless something falls off the plate or the wagon, as we shall say, um, we have enough work to do. They'll take us well through, you know, into the summer. So I'm just cautious about adding more. Thank you for that, Dave. Um, Pat. First of all, Chris and, and Dave and Rob, I don't know if he's still there, but thank you for your work. Um, I don't think that gets said enough. Uh, and one of the things that I'm not sure we're exactly, I'm going with this as a question, but one of the things that happened with 132 North Hampton road was rather intense resistance from neighbors. Um, you can see pro or con that same kind of intense reaction by neighbors to, um, the solar siding in on shoots, very road. You can, you, we saw that Dave, when we were trying to get land, you know, use the Amherst land, how in, how do we, how does the council take on more responsibility for filtering that in some way or addressing it. Um, I think it's important to leave you folks open to the work that you have to do for these things. I mean, I. I guess I'm, I'm, I've just been overwhelmed by resistance to change in our town and, um, and so any advice on how CRC or any committee can begin to address. The community to allow change and I don't mean the change I want versus the change this person wants, but how do we do this in a collaborative way that benefits the town? And I just don't see that happening a lot. Dave. Happy to have Robert Chris weigh in, but I guess my initial reaction that is what we can ask of you is to be the most informed you possibly can be on, and I don't want to use sides, but on, on the entire issue, whether it's solar, whether it's, uh, citing affordable housing or citing a homeless shelter, whatever it might be that might elicit. Um, uh, and I don't like to use NIMBY. I rarely use that, that phrase elicit concern or, you know, we want engagement. We're a very engaged community, but I think too often in Amherst, there's misinformation that gets passed along and then it, it grows and it, it grows, it, it builds that concern. So I think what we, what we ask of you as our highest elected leaders is to simply be informed on all the issues. And if you don't know, um, send those people to us so we can get them the study or we can point them to the website or you can, there's lots of things on our website. And as the planning board or zoning board or whatever board or committee or the conservation commission goes through their deliberations, there's so much information. And, um, I think that's one way that you can help us to really kind of buffer and educate and engage people. Um, you know, um, I think the conservation commission over the last, again, I go to every one of their meetings. You know, um, they've been wonderful at just putting out that information relative to say the shoots Murray solar proposal that, that was recently before them or the eruptor project in North Amherst. And I think we had loads, you know, dozens of people attend those meetings and they, they saw the information, they read the information and, and I think it helped us really inform a broad range of people and make sure everybody who wanted to had access to that information. So that's my quick answer. Thank you very much, Dave. That's helpful to me. Yes, thank you for that. I'm Shawnee. Yeah, I think that's a fabulous question. I think many of us have been thinking about it. Um, Pat. Uh, and my, uh, my feeling is that as elected leaders, we can role model what that looks like in how we have our discussions and as Dave was saying, like how do we learn from each other and all the different perspectives? I think we can shift the narrative that we are divided us versus them versus and shift that narrative into like, wow, we are so lucky. We have so many different engaged people who really care about this town and, and instead of coming in with trying to change, like the curiosity can be without an agenda of changing, but it's really cute. Like, Hey, what did you learn about that? Oh my God. And this is what I learned about the situation. And when I spoke with this person and this person, so I think, uh, the retreat is going to be a really good place. I'm hoping for us. And that's one of my priorities. I don't know if that's a policy thing that I shouldn't talk about. I don't know, but we're talking about it. So I guess I can. So we are invited to share our party, what we want to discuss. And that is one of my main things is how do we create safe spaces where our most creative cells come in. I know each one of us who's running and is here has amazing gifts and experiences to share and perspectives to share. And how do we not, um, you know, suppress that, but bring it out. If anyone is hesitant to speak, you know, bring them up, bring them out. So that's one thing. And the other thing I was going to speak to that is like, we have a lot of burden on the staff to answer all the questions. And that's where I think we also want to uplift our committees that we have. Like we have conservation committee. We have the environmental climate action committee, which is not just for energy. They're car plan, which is a 125 page plan was very thoroughly done. Just as an example. And it talks about buildings and transportation and land conservation. And so they do bring in a certain amount of expertise, not the whole thing. But we have these amazing committees that we don't even know exists. Like I didn't know they even exist. Like human rights commission or, you know, so like when we're talking about social justice and we don't know how to think about it, can we invite them to give us that lens and how to, you know, incorporate that. So that's what I'm envisioning. And that's what I think we're doing in TS. So also is hoping to bring the, uh, easy to our committee and say, this is our charge. And these are some of the things we're working on. And how do we bring the climate action lens? And I think we did that manager. I remember for the housing policy, we had the ECAC people came and they were like brought up things that we could never have thought about it. Like, oh, okay. That's how we're supposed to think about that. So I think bringing in these committees and all the expertise that we have in that town. Um, but thank you for asking that path. That's a really good question. Thank you. Anything else on the transition? Um, Shalini. Okay. Just continuing with that. So the ECAC does have a 125 page plan and it does cover buildings in it, which I think might be related to our charge. So at some point. Can we look at, uh, and that's something that we can do internally right before we bring in the energy efficient buildings. Um, So we can still look at what are some of the recommendations that they had with respect to and this transportation, which could go to TS. So I suppose, but it's like, how do we reduce the emissions and make more energy efficient buildings or whatever. So maybe inviting them to talk about how do we start implementing. Some of the strategies that they had. Further discussion on the transition memo. Um, The conversation topics that. Do kind of feel it, they would go to something like TSO. The closing of the street for the weekends. Um, the continuation of outdoor dining. I think those are, certainly it's kind of a public way issue and a conversation. And they certainly deal with that a lot more than we would. I would love to see that those two items, just move on to that plate. And I think they're great topics, but they probably won't get much action here. Um, the municipal parking district. To me is, um, Well, that's sort of wrapped into that whole, you know, are we studying the, are we studying all of the parking garage locations? How does that play into the municipal parking district, especially as we go forward? Um, So I think there are some in here that I don't want to, I don't want to add to the workload, but there's, there's some perhaps related to the topics that we've already discussed. Thanks Pam. I will say this has been helpful for me as I, um, Think about conversation topics, discussions as we move forward with agendas when there aren't as many, um, Referrals that we're dealing with on the immediate sort of basis. Um, I think we'll also write up a report on these conversations for, um, the council. I'm not sure whether that will be in the packet. I'm not sure I can get it done for Monday's packet, but I'll do a verbal report, even if I can't get a written report done for Monday. Um, Chris. Oh, so I just wanted to say that, um, you know, we don't mean to close the door on having conversations about things that we might work on in the future, but I'm not sure that we're going to be able to do that. Um, I don't think we're going to have time for a few months. Doesn't mean that we can't plan for, you know, July and here's some things we're going to work on in July. Um, and they might be like, uh, all of those issues relating to housing. Apartments, duplexes, triplexes, quadruplexes, converted dwellings, all of those things that we tried to work on last year. And we just didn't. We didn't have enough time. So, and there may be other things that you are particularly concerned about.  And then we can also share our ideas about what we would like to work on. You know, when the door opens in the, you know, and things clear up a bit and we have a little more time. So we don't have to wait till July to talk about that. That's what I'm saying. Thank you. Um, David. Yeah, the only other thing I would add, I guess, is, you know, as, as we think about, um, and earlier in the conversation, there were a couple of mentions of, you know, doing business in Amherst and, and, and, um, whether they're businesses, whether they're restaurants, whether they're retail, whether they're, um, developers, whether they're homeowners, we all want processes that are transparent, that are efficient, um, that makes sense and move our community forward. So I think, I think we should apply that. I'm going out on them here a little, but I think we should apply that to as best we can. Staff working with you, a council committee. And ultimately with the council, we should apply that same thinking to the work of the council and to the council's committees. Because if we take on too much, things get bogged down. And the perception becomes reality, which is, you know, we've bitten off more than we can chew that old saying, right? And things get bogged down and people can't follow the process and, and, and things take months and months and months. So I think it's really important to have some sort of a work plan with you that makes sense and has realistic deadlines and, and timelines because we, you know, we want to work with you and, and have, um, you know, have the public view this committee and the council as being efficient, setting priorities and, um, moving forward in a, in a rational and reasonable way. So I just think it's a, it's an outflow of good planning to really say, here's what we're going to, here's what we're going to undertake in 2022 and 23 and have some sort of a plan. And I just think that's a logical, we're doing that every day. But I think you are the outward highest elected official you know, in our community and people look to you and say, what is the council doing? What are the important things you're working on to better our community? So just put that out there. Thank you, David. Shawnee and then Jennifer. Oh, for the RFP, uh, for the design consultant for downtown. Is it possible to include language that invites, uh, consultants who have an environmental and, you know, racial justice focus and use inclusive processes like human centered approaches, which really, because as we've seen, we don't ever get all stakeholders. We get, you know, a small group of people who are very active and we obviously want to continue inviting them, but we also want to hire consultants and there are very creative ways to actually go into the community and engage people in different ways using different methodologies. And not just these formal forums, which many people are hesitant to come to or speak to. So can that be part of the RFP that we invite consultants with human centered design or similar approaches? Thank you, Shawnee. Jennifer. Um, I did want to think and, um, concur with Dave that if we could even start with, um, to put items that we want to address on the calendar for later in the year, even next year, because we are here for two years. I, um, So, you know, I think we all have items that are too much for the next six, maybe even to nine months, but that, you know, we can look a little further down the road. Um, I also wanted to, you know, was wondering there's a lot of, um, different groups of neighbors and streets, you know, that are starting. Um, and I'm wondering how we might engage or if this committee is the appropriate committee to think about engaging with them as well. Just, you know, I guess see what the residents, you know, are their priorities in terms of housing and communities and economic development. And I guess, you know, again, I'm getting a little specific, but when I look at the comprehensive housing policy, like the goals, I think we would all agree on the goals, but I think it gets to are these strategies for reaching the goals, you know, really going to get us to those goals or, you know, and I think a lot of people in the neighborhoods, you know, you know, you know, I guess see what the residents, you know, are their priorities in terms of housing and communities and economic development. And I guess, you know, and I think a lot of people in the neighborhoods have some really great insights on kind of what's going on on the ground. But I think all with the goal of wanting to have an equitable community that is inclusive. So I'm just, I guess trying to struggling with a little of how we maybe reach out to the community. I think that's an excellent idea. I wonder if we can frame the question.  And the second thing I was thinking around that is, you know, residents is definitely we want to hear because everyone has different lived experiences. And just as an example, you know, being at the mobile market, which actually Pat probably has way more experience than I do, but just a few times I went there and speaking with some of the volunteers who work there. And one of them happened to have an urban planning degree from UMass. And so I was like, oh, what do you think about this zoning in our town? And he said the one single biggest problem we have in zoning in Amherst is it requires too much land to build houses. So that makes it really expensive to build homes here in Amherst and he's, he's not able to afford living here and he's leaving to go to Holyoke now. So I'm just saying when we say that we have different perspectives, it's from our own lived experience and does not include the experiences of other people. And which is why it's really important. Even the people who are coming to a district meetings are still again, mostly a smaller group of people. So yes, we want to hear to them. And that's not the only perspective of, that's true for the people in our town. Thank you. I'm going to do some summary right now and next steps and move into that as we approach the end of our meeting. I think this has been a great conversation. And I think. I'm glad we did this before the retreat because I think it gives at least our committee some, you know, Chris and Rob, I don't believe we're going to be at the retreat. I believe zoning and sort of capacity and all will probably be a conversation, but that's just my guess. And it will give us some background on. Capacity and ways to think about what is getting discussed at the retreat. When we hear from the retreat, we can come back and continue these conversations. To talk about priorities. What the council wants to do, how that can fit into that work plan. So that it's not, I think one of the things we probably aired on last year was everything was done at once. And it wasn't. You know, sort of part of it was not. Stratified out enough, right? Like it was all grouped, grouped instead of here's the first set and then here's a second set and then here's a third set type thing. We didn't prioritize enough. I would say, and then we also put way too much stuff on you guys. And so I think we can. Continue these conversations with the housing policy as we, and some of these other strategies as we move into. And so I think we can, we can, we can, we can, we can, we can, we can, we can move into our late February meeting and come back from the retreat. And listen at the retreat as a committee potentially and committee members to bring those discussions back here as we think about things to talk about with the council. And within this committee. So. With that. I think our next meeting is, I believe I don't even, do I have my own calendar up? Today's Thursday, I think our next meeting is the 24th. I think is what I said it on. I'll look, but in that, it means we have one more meeting before the 28th, but it is after the retreat. We won't have any new referrals as far as I know, because there's nothing on the agenda, but there's nothing on the agenda. So I think we'll be able to see our C. So, so we'll be dealing with my plan is to put. Conversation about the comprehensive housing policy. Implementation on that agenda. I may continue this conversation as transition memo, including follow-up from the retreat on that agenda. It will be an agenda that mostly deals with discussion of stuff. Not too many actions. We'll see how Monday goes. Okay. I think the meeting was, it didn't come from CRC. It didn't, obviously originate in CRC or anything, but sometimes there are discussions that then the council sort of has a desire to have a committee come back and look at stuff. If that is the case and there is that sort of push after the first reading on article 16, that would show up on the agenda. take priority on an agenda based on a conversation at Monday's meeting and push some of these discussion topics off, but I'm not expecting that to be happen. But we've seen that happen with comprehensive housing policy or some other policies before where things have been discussed, they come back to committee between two readings and then go back to the council after another reading for the second reading. So if that happens, it'll be on here. If not, we'll basically have another meeting where we're discussing stuff. That's my plan. We should have minutes to pass next meeting. And so we'll we'll deal with that too. And I think that's all I have for announcements and next agenda preview. Any next agenda items or announcements from the rest of the committee at this point, be none. Oh, Pat, on mute, please. I know we're nearing the end and this probably the inappropriate time. But I feel like this committee, the five of us with Dave and Chris and Rob here, but the five of us on CRC really represent a range of views. And I really value that. And I'm really grateful for that.  Thank you for that, Pat. Always appreciated. And I do happen to agree with you. I think this is a good committee representing a wide range of views that are represented in town in substantial numbers. So I'm hoping I personally hope that that means we can accomplish a lot to get stuff done. That relates to what this committee does in a way that is less contentious than has been in the past potentially. So that that's potentially that's my hope. Based on that, but thank you for those comments any other announcements or next agenda items. See none. We, I don't have any unanticipated items I'm going to ask as I always do if anyone else has any unanticipated items. Since no one else does we are adjourning the meeting at 619pm. Thank you so much for a wonderful meeting today. Have a nice night.