Okay, welcome everybody to the Amherst community chat for Thursday, July 30th. My name is Brianna Sunred from the town of Amherst and joining your town manager, Paul Bachman, is director of senior services Mary Beth Ogilowicz. I think I said that right, I practiced that at night so.  So, before we launch into updates about senior services and questions, I wanted to give town manager Paul Bachman a chance to give us any updates. Sure. Thanks, Brianna to two important updates this this week. First is that the Board of Health on Monday passed a mask regulation that requires the wearing of facial coverings in the downtown area basically it follows North Hampton Road which is route nine down Lincoln Ave. This is the UMass campus and then up North Pleasant Street and Triangle Street, and it sort of juts around Main Street and back to route nine, which includes the town common so this is an area downtown where our main business district is to that is an area that because of the higher density of pedestrian traffic, and then narrow sidewalks, the Board of Health determined that it was important that masks are required, not just recommended to be worn now they're all kinds of caveats so if you have health conditions or mental or physical that prevent you from wearing a mask. That's that's not there, you're not going to be there aren't going to be mask police out there. We will be engaging with the university to bring in student ambassadors who will have masks available to help share them with people and inform them of the regulations. So that's, that's the first thing. The second thing is, we are have established a working group with the university to read to be on a sort of real time basis meet pretty regularly with decision makers at the table to. review what's going on in the community and be able to respond very quickly is as we review data and look at different options available to both entities. So that's a that's a good news thing. And as we anticipate students coming back for a state of classes I think is August 24. So students will be coming back before then clearly for the ones who are on campus and for those who are off campus too. So I'm just to start there and then move on to our senior services director. And I'll just say to both of those points Paul just made you can view the full order in the full information about both the emergency order for part of downtown downtown Amherst with the masks as well as the working group information. On our homepage in the news and announcement section so you can see the map and get the full details on both of those things. And before I give Mary Beth a chance to give just a general update I want to remind folks in the room that you can use the Q&A button to pose your questions to Paul and Mary Beth as well as by raising your hand from the zoom application or star nine from your phone. So, Mary Beth, I thought we would give you a chance to give some general updates before we launch into Q&A. Yeah. Well we are at an interesting point I think very different from where we stood previously. I think the last time I was here we were in the midst of the thick of the pandemic. And, and sort of I think of it as more of a crisis and emergency response, sort of an adrenaline surge of response to make sure that people had the level of services just to keep them safe and well. At this juncture I think of us as in sports parlance sort of settling the ball. The things have calmed down. We're taking a look around and trying to really have a measured approach to looking ahead to the future the best way in which we can forecast how we'd be able to deliver services, and looking back to where we have been, and where do we need to grow. So, I think of it as an opportunity to reimagine and really reinvent senior services. So, for people who don't know the full history of my position, it used to be the director of senior center, and Paul very wisely when he hired me one year ago and one day, changed my title to director of senior services which I found very appealing and I think more closely matches the challenge that we are facing of delivering services throughout the whole town, without having a center that may you know for the foreseeable future be public. So that's the phase we're at, sort of taking measure, looking at best practices communicating a lot with other senior centers, both regionally and statewide looking at guidelines, and trying to think of how we can not necessarily replicate what we were doing, but also reinvent what we had been doing, and looking at new needs that are arising. So that's the quick where are we now, and I'm happy to dive in more. Great, thank you for that update and we do have some questions that have already been submitted, and I will definitely remind folks to please jump in the room we'd love to hear from you live so you can do that by raising your hand. But if you feel more comfortable, you can use the Q&A function at the bottom of your screen. So one question that we've gotten a lot is, when do you think the senior senior center will reopen the physical building? Yeah, and I think that there probably isn't a day that goes by that someone doesn't at least ask me that. And I think of it as two levels of determination. First, we have to look at what the governor is going to authorize in terms of his executive order and looking at the phases. What we know to be true from our communications that we do a weekly call with the executive office of elder affairs is that senior centers will be among the very last entities that will open in the state because there is a strong concern given the vulnerability of seniors. So we have not yet received permission within the phased opening, but beyond that really what what the message is weekly to us is look at your local determinations because what's happening in Sudbury could be very different than Amherst. And we really have to lean into our local board of health and the town manager and looking at what's happening here and how we might be able to best support seniors in terms of opening. So for right now, we continue our status of we are here. So I don't like to think of us as closed. I like to try to disabuse people on that notion. We are here. We are open and where we're functioning. We're just not allowing the public to come in for programming and for individual appointments. So what that looks like is we are available, you know, through phone calls through zoom through telephone conference calls. We meet people outside. So we've been, you know, practicing that in terms of social distance meetings at the sidewall where we deliver our lunches. And we're also looking into sort of a mobile fleet of can we drive around our COA van, park it at some locations and then pull out a table for six feet distance and meet with people within the community who are a bit more separate and maybe don't have access to all of those other forms of communication. So you are on the reopening you're an advisor on the reopening of senior centers right Mary Beth at the statewide level. Yeah, so, so we have created a really robust and I think exceptionally thorough and detailed set of guidelines statewide for the Commonwealth for senior centers so there was an MCO a reopening guidelines Task Force. I was a member of that because I do love policies and procedures and safety protocol. And I will say that even in the absence of being open, you know, some of the things that we've been doing as a result of those guidelines is, again, everybody takes those general guidelines and then you look at your own footprint. So we have been doing things like, you know, examining modifications that are necessary to resume opening just in terms of space. So we're trying to use this time to put in place all of those practices and procedures and modifications that will allow us if the, you know, the green light comes from the stay and from Amherst to be able to open at least in a in a small way and the message I would also give is that this is not a race. So this will be a measured soft partial opening whenever we do have the permission to open. So it might begin in a very small way with allowing one to one meetings and appointments with social work staff, and then perhaps growing to small groups or something of that nature. So that's what we've anticipated an opening. It's not going to be will open the doors and everything is resumed as it was. So it might look like it's going to be a little bit of a mess. So that's what we've anticipated an opening. It's not going to be will open the doors and everything is resumed as it was. So it might look and feel a bit different as we would ramp up just like the state is ramping up in stages, we would do the same thing here. Great. Thank you, Mary Beth. We have a question from Eileen in reference to one of the updates that Paul made earlier. Who are the health agents and municipal enforcement officers who will make sure people are following the order to wear masks. Great question. So under the Board of Health Regulation, the enforcement officers are the health agents. They are located in the inspection services department. The police are not the enforcement agencies agents on this. But in terms of enforcement that we are not going to be going out and ticketing people for not wearing masks is going to be an educational component because that's the thing that works the best. And tick us just, we don't think that that's going to achieve the goal that we want to achieve. So in terms of enforcement, it is the inspection services department that is actually inspect or the enforcement agents as identified by the Board of Health Regulation. And you can again remind the room that you can see that full order and it kind of breaks it down by section where you can get the full details of what that means. And some of those definitions is right on our homepage of amersetmay.gov in the news section. So we have another question here. And I know we're just kind of redefined with the senior center being closed meant but with that in mind. What do you think the seniors are missing the most during these last few months. I would probably lump that into two two areas is one community and connection. And so we all long to belong and to be part of something that's how we gain identity purpose and meaning. And, and we really did serve that so the location of the senior center gave a lot of people. That sense of belonging. We have a number of older adults in this community who have no family here in the area. So they don't have an extended circle, their friends here became their circle. And so I think that that's one thing that people have felt like that they are missing. And the other one I think is a sense of care. So along with that sort of community and connection, right, you get that the caring the follow up of how are you feeling. Do you need something, and somebody doing that extra special thing for you. And I think people are missing that kind of connection and follow through so even if they are able to virtually connect with someone. And so I think the delivery of the sandwich or bringing over the coffee or, you know, we were famous here people would bake and they would just bring in goods like oh I baked 29 muffins and I only ate two and so here's muffins and we're all sharing them with each other. So those demonstrations of caring. And that that being said what I what I also would like to flip the script is that so much of how we navigate this, this period of seeming loss is how we describe it in our brains like what is that narrative. I would say that there is increasing research around gains versus loss with the pandemic so in surveys that have been done recently. When they have asked individuals to journal or to write down, what have you lost and what have you gained increasingly they're finding that individuals when they actually spend time looking at what they gained have gained more than they have lost. My, my task as a service providers to look at loss and how do I supplant that and how to store that, but also I think another part of that conversation is, we have to make sure we're talking about what have we gained. You know people have talked to me about how much they've just enjoyed talking to one another, and they've you know communicated with high school friends and relatives that they haven't previously connected with. People have talked about appreciating quiet and peace, how they've enjoyed nature more even just the view from their window of gosh I never noticed I had this beautiful tree outside Mary bath. So, so I think it's, it's, we have to have some balance in looking at loss and gain and how we frame that for a conversation within the community. I really appreciate that perspective I mean not I'm sure just not for for for seniors, our senior community members but for all of us to kind of look at things through that lens so that's going to be my, my challenge this week. So I appreciate that. So I want to say we have a couple of questions in the Q amp a and also a hand raised so I'm going to allow the phone caller, whose last four digits are 3102 to come into the room please introduce yourself. Hi, this is Rebecca hall and I have two questions actually I have one for Mary Beth. I was wondering if, and if so how you've been involved in the new co vid working group. You know that set up to to determine college openings and, and whether your input has been part of that. And to, I guess is a more is more a question for, for the, maybe Mr. Backelman or the town and that is inspection services department is involved in the enforcement of these orders and I'm wondering who exactly is the inspection services department are they part of the board of health. So, so Rebecca nice to nice to hear your voice. I'm Mary. Yeah, yeah, long time I haven't spoken with you. Yeah, I appreciate that convert that question. And one thing that I would assure you is that Paul and I have constant communication about senior needs senior concerns. So anything that is arising. We have a formal and informal way of sharing information around co vid and concerns of seniors. I certainly would attest to the fact that he's been very sensitive to the conversations that I've presented him with and the feedback that I have shared with and seniors and their, their specific concerns in the way in which they view co vid and, and the working group and its task that lays before them. So, so I can, I can assure you that that all of the information and the concerns are shared in daily and certainly weekly conversations as part of a solution that he is charged really with, with handling those relationships vis-a-vis his position. So that's, that's what I would, I would share around that. And the other piece I think that is an important piece that that informs anything that the town does and decisions that Paul's moves. I don't mean to speak for him but is the council on aging. Council on aging has been very active and quite vociferous and you know the chair of the council on aging Pat Rector met with Paul yesterday. There's a continual flow and, and the, I think the unique feature of that is that those are individuals with different constituencies with different neighborhoods, different backgrounds. So there, there's a multiplicity of voices that he gets through that conduit of information. So, so that's what I would, and I'd leave it for him to take it from there. And so the enforcement agent is a really good question because it sort of seems like who are these enforcement people. So, so many years ago, not many, several years ago, the town gathered all of the inspectors into under one roof under the building commissioners oversight, Rob Mora. So we put the plumbing, the electrical, the building, the health inspectors all together and they work together and share information side by side. So we have health inspectors specifically and we have health health inspectors who are so building inspectors because a lot of their worlds intermingle. So those are all located in town hall on the second floor. They all work together and under the general direction of the health director, but under the day to day supervision of the building commissioner. Okay, thank you. Thank you, Rebecca. Thank you, Rebecca. If you have any other questions, feel free to press star nine again from your phone and we'll bring you right back. Alright, thank you so much. So we've got several questions in the Q&A and I'm going to take them in the order that they came in. The first is how will the two enforcers have any effect on mask wearing downtown. I said there were two enforcers, but we said there would be student ambassadors, student ambassadors who will be out about and sort of just engaging with people as they walk into town informing them, you know, a lot of people will be coming dropping their children off for college and just saying this is an area where masks are required, can I help you. What we're trying to achieve is sort of a social expectation in this area that you will wear a mask and that that becomes pretty I've seen it in other communities it becomes when that becomes the norm you feel odd not having a mask on and that's the kind of culture we're trying to create for the downtown area. So, unless you're sitting down at a restaurant table which we encourage you to do. And if you're walking around you have your mask on and that and you know I've experienced it in areas around Boston where if you don't I went out and I didn't have my mask and I felt really awkward because I didn't have my mask and it felt like as everybody's looking at me because I didn't have the mask and I think that that's the kind of culture in sort of ambiance we want to create in downtown area. Okay, thank you Paul so the next question here I believe is going to be directed towards Mary Beth. Charlotte wants to know do you have any information on if or when meals on wheels may resume from UMass. Yes. No I do not have any information from them about that resuming that the time that they ceased the program. It was due to the fact that they were closing all of their kitchens and just sort of economically, it did not make sense. I didn't have the staff and the wherewithal to continue the robust program. So, we did, I am in communication with them about another program that they currently are providing so the Burke truck which feeds the school children and family members also is available to seniors at seven locations. And they that that was sort of a middle ground that we struck in terms of being able to provide us with some assistance. And they said they would be visited in the fall. And I think that they will be making determinations probably within the next several weeks about whether that would be a possibility or not from their perspective. Great. Thank you. We've got another comment and a question here. This tool in and there's a link provided to a specific tool provides a good guide for determining risks, the risk of attending an event such as a party, our county currently has a risk of 42%. What is our town doing to mitigate the risk poised by gatherings likely to increase dramatically in a couple of weeks. It's it's something that we're talking about constantly as just on an hour long call before this started on that exact topic. I'm really intrigued by that link that Georgia Tech has so we'll look into that. Yeah, I mean, we know once the university made the decision to to reopen campus and bring students back and we knew that there were going to be students living on campus and off campus. And that decision had incredible number of ramifications and that's what we've been working on very extensively at all levels police fire building inspections health across the board. So the biggest challenge is private gatherings on private property because there are certain constitutional rights that people have. And the sort of complications of trying to go on to someone's property and say you can't be gathering here. So, we're looking at all the tools that we have and what's available to us it will be a topic of conversation at Monday's town council meeting because the town council is has heightened awareness of this as well. We know that every year at this time of year when students return there are every every every fall there's an uptick in parties just when the weather turns nicer and students are back and they're bringing the joy and you know, vibrancy they bring to a community and that expresses itself in certain ways and that's that's been a challenge. And we sort of had it down we sort of know how to manage it and we've learned we learn every year how to do it better and have really terrific enforcement people at in conjunction with the university and our bill army at the police department and things like that, but this year is different because we worry about the health risks that these gatherings present. One of the good news stories is that, you know, the evidence isn't that there is that there isn't as much transmission when you are outside. And so having parties outside is actually not a bad thing, but it's going to be visible. And that's where we're going to be people are going to be seeing parties and reporting parties people aren't social distancing people aren't wearing masks, and how we respond to those complaints is what we're working on right now. Great. Thank you, Paul. I just want to remind folks that we are coming up to the end of our half hour we've got about five or six minutes left so it's a great time for you to raise your hand or pop your question into the Q&A. We do have some other questions. So this person wants to help out and they're not able to volunteer but they have resources. Is there anything our seniors need right now that could use a donation. Our community has been so responsive to this period of time. I was recently finishing off the thank yous for the newsletter and listing the number of donors we've had which has been really profound. So I start first of all with a thank you to everybody who's contributed so far. But of late I think that the greatest need right now posed by looking at a foreseeable future of being in shelter or in some form of isolation is a need to build a technology loan library. So I was very fortunate I've been looking at resources and received $2,500 grant from Health New England which is fabulous. So we are purchasing our first nine tablets which we will get loaded with Zoom and ready to go. We have a technology volunteer who will help to deliver those and help to orient people on their usage. We've developed some criteria around eligibility because we imagine that we're going to end up with a wait list. So I have a new task before me which is to raise $7,500 to make up. I wanted $10,000 I got $2,500. So I am doing a GoFundMe campaign and seeking donations of up to $7,500. So even $1 will help. We have the link on the page and I am to get people also moving. So one of the things we know most importantly, I just did an interview with Dr. Rebecca Starr who is a geriatrician who's recorded conversation will also be on our page. She said the number one thing that people can do to keep themselves healthy is to exercise. So we are calling it move and groove to close the senior digital divide. So I will be running the course of 189 miles, I believe it is, to Provincetown. I was trying to pick like the furthest point over the next couple of months. So I'm not doing it in one fell swoop and asking people to pledge as I run and my staff has agreed to join in and we're asking the community to join in and move and just share with us. Whether that's dancing, whether that's kayaking, swimming, walking your dog, moving back and forth. Dr. Starr was recommended even if you sit up from your chair five times in one hour and try not to use your arms to lift yourself if that's safe and that's a great way to get in some physical exercise. So that's what I would be asking people if they would be willing to pledge towards our technology loan library because we know that it will combat depression and isolation, most importantly, and that's what I need to do is to help people to connect. So. Thank you. Thank you, Mary Beth and I just want to let everyone know who's in the room you can find that link on the senior center page as Mary Beth mentioned Amherst and made of slash senior center will also share it out via social media later today so that you can find that and share that for anybody who's willing to to give We'll also be creating a new playlist for some of the the virtual programming that Mary Beth has been organizing in her conversations she's been doing with practitioners and we'll start collecting those into a playlist that people can easily look through and and share out as well. So I'm looking in the room I don't see any other hands raised or questions. We are coming down to the end of our half hour so if I don't see anything now I'm going to give the chance for Mary Beth to kind of address anything she didn't get asked yet so far. My message would be healthy aging healthy living and how can you do it one exercise to engage your mind in any way go on a class online learn something new language musical instrument anything. Number three sleep the quality and the quantity of your sleep makes a significant impact on your health and then lastly civic engagement. So follow all the conversations that are happening in town become aware become interested and we have to available seats on the council on aging. So go on the website fill out a form for to participate and see where it brings you you can participate from home safely and we would love to have your voice. Absolutely and you could do that at amherstma.gov slash CAF which stands for Community Activity form you can express your interest in COA or any of the other boards and commissions that we have. Okay, so Paul any last words or Nope. I think this is a great talk. Thank you very best for being here. Thank you. Always a pleasure. I love always. I love the job. I love this. So thank you. Well we appreciate it and thank you for joining us today and thanks to all in the room. We'll have this up on our channel shortly for those of you who want to share it out. Thank you. Have a nice day. Bye bye.


Hiya, a question for Keeley, so Henry's progress in 1541 was more or less in response to a pilgrimage of grace, correct? Arguably, yes, depends on which historian you're asking. Yeah. So prior to that were pilgrimages up to the north of England, not all that common. No, so the furthest north Henry had been was to Warwick in 1511. Then he kind of was very much a sort of London commuter. I think Heiler Bramsdale wrote that he, you know, the north of England was terror, ignore to Henry so he didn't really. I don't want to say he didn't care because that's not true. But I don't think he saw the value in traveling so extensively until sort of later in his reign but I think I think it was Sam who said, you know, the, oh it wasn't someone earlier that the two to government was very much patching leaks as they appeared. You can kind of see the progress is kind of functioning in that way a little, especially when you consider the sort of northern progress in 1541. Thank you for three really great papers. My question is for Oscar, I was wondering if you could speak maybe a bit more about the institutions and the spaces situated around the Chapel Royal, like what's going on in physical space around the Chapel Royal. And sort of in terms of where the Chapel Royal is in palaces or, yeah, yeah, so there was a very, very good lunchtime lecture made here at the size of Antiquaries by Morris Howard and Chapel Royals are in that sort of placed at the end of a procession and sort of the actual procession almost where, whereby sort of, you know, the monarch can make a procession from the Royal apartments through the President's Chamber through various very sort of visual corridors up to the chapel. The actual sort of, so on Holy Days that is the procession that Elizabeth or whoever the monarch was would have made. Elizabeth had access to the chapel through her Royal Closet, which had a sort of back passage almost to her to her closet. She also had another Royal Closet which was used for sort of Ferial Days, where there was no procession and she just sort of scurried away and she didn't scurry away she walked state in a stately way. So she had to go and observe, you know, the daily devotion. I hope that answers the question. Just a small plug that the lecture you just mentioned is still available on our YouTube channel for anyone that's in the room or listening online, you can watch it later. Oh no sorry we'll go over that. Thanks for a wonderful triptych on Royal Governance. I was supposing it seemed to dance around all of the three talks sort of gender and the gendered nature of the various sovereigns and mechanics and sort of image making. And I wondered if you could perhaps all speak a little bit more about that and how gender informs and inflects the progressors and the Chapel Royal, respectively. Thank you. Yeah, so unlike James there's not really much evidence that Henry and his queens took progressors separately but we do know that they often progress together. One of the most obvious gendered aspects I suppose of progressors was space and privacy. So really where this comes to the fore really is on the 1541 progress to York, obviously with the whole scandal of Catherine Howard and the affair. And a lot of that was down to the way this sort of new informal spaces where progress is created liminal space where the sort of usual, usual gender roles didn't necessarily apply so it gave Catherine Howard that kind of space I suppose to perform acts in privacy where she would not usually have been afforded that privacy so we see a lot of kind of the making of space and the gendering of space on progress in Henry's reign where those kind of liminal spaces are exploited or can be built upon just because the court isn't where the court usually functions. As we had earlier you know the court is trying to recreate the usual chamber on the move. So that's kind of one area where gender plays into the progress. Unlike Henry, as Keely mentioned James, James's consort Anna of Denmark did make her own separate progresses. She was often with James but she often made her own separate ones and as part of my PhD I'm going to be looking at how she chose different areas of the country to go for example she went to Bath and Bristol a lot to take the waters. It's something that James ever did it's not anywhere he ever went. The princes also made their own separate progresses separate from both their parents. So I'm going to be looking at how Anna chose her progress destinations and whether there was a gendered, whether there was gendered decisions behind that if she wanted to go and see great ladies, which she did. Yeah, that's what I'm going to be looking at but there's definitely a gender theme running through progresses. I'll try and be as brief as possible because there's a lot to talk about with gender in the Chapel Royal, you know probably enough for some kind of undergraduate dissertation or more if anyone is watching or here. So, Elizabeth as a woman in sort of in the actual Chapel Royal doesn't evoke her gender much, and that's fairly sort of concordant with some prevailing theories of Elizabeth gender in that it's sort of it's the monarch as a position as a masculine in her office, and thus she kind of tries to inhibit those roles. However, she accepts the fact that she, she doesn't deny that she is a woman, the sort of gendered illusions are frequently made, more so in summons. So sort of illusions to Deborah as the mother of the church, made a lot and there's some argument to be made that various sort of churchmen who begins to criticize Elizabeth. So I'm going to cut out with my paper where Anthony Rudd in 1560 1596 says that Elizabeth then is the, it is in the climacterial the era of her life, which she interrupts and says the greatest clerks on the wisest man and leaves, as you would. There's a very sort of valid argument actually to be made for the fact that they wouldn't have done that to a father. So brother because when he was a child. But there's a very, there's a very interesting dynamic there to how Elizabeth uses her gender in those interactions, and the fact that she can sort of storm off and that could be acceptable is a very, very interesting avenue of exploration and one that I could talk about for much longer. These might all be really inane questions I don't know this isn't my field so I'm just sort of like cool. Thank you to Joe. So thinking about the, you're doing about the level of correspondence between James and and Council. How recognizable were the people carrying that correspond that correspondence and how much advance preparation was made for them traveling and is that an extension of progress of a real progress to have. Really good question and progress is were responsible for the enlargement of post horse routes at this time by the early 17th century. They were quite extensive. I think it went from a letter taking a week to get from Edinburgh to London to about two or three days because of the post horse routes. So they would have, it would have been done in post stages. So there would have been horses ready to take it from one stage to the next. And that was something that started early on I think in Elizabeth rain, and then just expanded by James is rain, the, the network was huge. But they would have been ready, they would have been primed for a progress and ready to go. Question for Keely, if I may, and thank you all for great papers. A question about your broader description of Henry and other early modern modern rulers. You are firing the best retritians writers builders artists sculptors etc. Is there anything particularly early modern about this, because I would have argued that Edward the surge, which is the second hand to the fifth to the same thing. Did the tutor though anyone else put their own unique spin on it. I'm not necessarily the authority on to, you know, to the image. Kevin shop is obviously a very, very good resource for that sort of thing. What I will say is I think Henry was the first monarch to really utilize the level of public literacy that people had in sort of image reading. So for example today I just use a sort of modern example you know when we scroll through Instagram does we will have a sort of expectation of what we're seeing we we are socialized in a way that we can read the sort of cues in people's posts or whatever so the early modern public would have had the same type of literacy for sort of tutor portraiture. But I think yeah, yes and no is the short answer to your question. No Henry was not the first monarch to recognize that you know he could manipulate his image in this way but I think he was the first monarch to really invest a lot of time and money in presenting himself as this Renaissance, scholar king by surrounding himself with good reticence like Tom's more painters like Hans Holbein to really push his image because of course the king people that people's only access to the king outside of the progress was coinage or indeed portraiture. So that's a good way to kind of get across the image that you're wanting outside of these sort of access to the king I hope that answers your question. And yeah thank you all three of you are really interesting series of papers. Just just following on from that question I kind of want to take it in the opposite direction chronologically if you see what I mean. And Joe I just wondered. Again I'm being slightly cheeky it's maybe going slightly beyond the scope of your paper but I just wonder whether you can give any idea at all of whether what James does in terms of progress is sets a precedent that is then followed by the later stewards or whether, whether they do their own thing or whether this is a tradition that dies out if you see what I mean. That's a really good question. Yeah, James was Charles the set Charles the first did lots of progressing but his. Even in James's reign, and statements were less public and they were starting to be brought into the courts masks and this is something that Charles first carried on. So he was less visible than perhaps James was to the majority of to the to the general populace. James the second does lots of progressing, but not to the same extent as James first and I would. I think I'd probably say that James the first was the last great progressing Stuart. Charles the first was a master on made a few progresses, but the tradition sort of display sort of came indoors after James and was Charles, Charles first was a massacre, rather than a progressor, but he did made them. I really enjoyed that as you can imagine. It's a question for all of you, in fact, you are in your various ways, you're emphasizing progresses in the Chapel Royal as places of propaganda performance, enhancing the image of the monarchy in a Kevin sharp, or even JPD Cooper sort of way, but you've also hinted at problems with that tensions where things go wrong. So particularly in progress is you've both hinted at ways in which progresses can impose enormous financial burdens can lead to the clearing away of human trash as well as piles of rubbish and presumably that does create fear in the localities. So clearly with with Oscars Chapel Royal clearly the Chapel Royal is not simply a place where Eucharistic kingship is sort of uncomplicatedly projected it's a it's a flashpoint of tension. So my question is simply how do you, how do you account for those tensions in your work how do you see both sides of the balance sheet in terms of what historians of political culture are often constructed as, you know, automatically effective for propaganda simply because they took place. Okay, I'll take this one first so yeah you raise a really good point and it's a question I think that we've been grappling with in the Henry Aethontal network as well, simply like how do you measure the success of the progress. You know, what was people's experiences they find them disruptive did they find them helpful. There's a lot we know about the progress there's a lot that scripted about a progress but there's also a lot that's unscripted especially with Henry I mean there's an example of I think Greg Walker talks about how there's kind of these popular myths of Henry that's kind of swanning into like towns or villages and unannounced. So, you know you do have these kind of unpredictable elements of progress is, and indeed like I said at the beginning of my paper just because they were grand and, you know, big and expensive really mean that they were effective. Because they were an extreme expense not only for the localities but also you know who like you mentioned had to go out and paint their houses and clear away everything but also for the crown he had to try and manage a government while the king was like putting off on hunting trips which were politically effective but ultimately a massive expense to try and manage the usual correspondence of government and indeed, especially dealing with petitions like Laura discusses in some of her work so it's kind of again like swings I don't know what you're talking about so I suppose Henry's progress is like there were goals for each and arguably you can say that he met them. But did the sort of downside of the progress outweigh whatever, you know, were the goals necessarily just Henry's goals and was he successful only not in his sort of inner circle and personal ambitions when did the localities see the benefit. I don't know. I think when it comes to James, his politicization was a bit more overt just because he was a king of Scotland and he was quite an unknown quantity in England. His Union project was something that he used pro-progresses to get out there. So for example in 1617 when he went back to Scotland for the first time since 1603 insisted on taking the full contents of an Anglican chapel up to Scotland with him, which was incredibly expensive. His thoughts were not happy with this at all understandably. He was trying to push his religious agenda onto Scotland. So I think when studying James it's actually easier to see the negatives in progressing and see how people would have seen them as negatives because his objectives were much perhaps clearer than the outset. But that was a nice teeing up of the Chapel Royal there. Because Elizabeth has similar struggles, as I was talking about tensions, as I sort of mentioned with her leading Protestant Churchmen or many of them were really quite upset by what Elizabeth is doing in a chapel royal. But beyond that, because that's talked about sort of fairly heavily thoroughly. So they're quite difficult to identify properly within the Chapel Royal beyond religious disputes and debates and sort of it's difficult to identify fractures in Elizabeth's image, partly because of the sort of the complete absence of, you know, there's not exactly a wealth of material surviving unfortunately. However, there are I mentioned Richard Morris, the one Welshman that we can find in the Chapel Royal, who runs away as a Catholic to the continent. And his colleague Nicholas Morgan and the fact that to Chapel Royal men and a third I've also found ran away, he was a child and then in the sort of 20s, when it became a Jesuit, the fact that three men of the sort of same generation of Elizabeth's chapel, all left in a fairly public way shows that Elizabeth authority wasn't complete by any means over her chapel, be it in a Protestant dimension or Catholic, which is never going to be complete in a Catholic way but yeah, that's, they are they are the identifiable tensions. I'm sure there are more. I was going to ask a very similar question to what John just asked in in probably a more articulate way than I could have done but I guess I'll push it a little bit further, which is, I think nowadays we do take the granted in this generation of scholars especially that Kevin sharp conceptualization and political culture in this period of a successful projection of monarchical image and sometimes even policies to all of the the wonderful things he illustrates and progresses and and things like the itinerant court whether it's progressing or not are key to that. I'm interested in in how far we can argue that there could ever be a transmission of ideas the other way. You know, we're quite used to talking about publicity and of course a lot of the stuff I'm your illustrating in your paper Joe about the number of people turning out to see James is one key source for that. I'm wondering how much we can be convinced that the more kind of ordinary sway of society could communicate ideas back or whether we should see the transmission of political cultural ideas as an entirely top down movement. Yes, good question. So these qualitative sources as I said in my in my paper, they're very. I mean, to get the audience reception of normal people into these things is obviously incredibly different because most of the people that you'd be interested in finding out what they thought about were literate and they left me a literate and they left nothing behind. It's, it's really hard to try and get to that. But I think when the qualitative ways, like I mentioned, are also not particularly useful. Of course, everybody is going to be out to see the brand new king they were. They were intrigued and they were doesn't mean they were fully supportive just because they were there. I like the quote that I said about the plane on a Scotsman that just give us an idea that people were there it still gets us no deeper to what. So I think, I think you have to look at the end results of these monarchs efforts. And as I said, James, James's subjects weren't particularly pleased with him by the end. So perhaps that says that they weren't as effective as you thought they were. But yeah, that's really difficult. I'm going to pass this on now. I suppose the Henry's reign is equally as difficult, especially when considering the progress there is just nothing on beyond some sort of popular mess I mentioned earlier around how people viewed the progress and indeed how they influenced Henry. It's kind of, it's kind of taken as a given in the historiography that Henry was particularly influenceable, that's the word. He was easily influenced. But I don't think necessarily by the general populace. I mean we can take the pilgrimage of grace as a kind of example, although the various uprisings but I'm just using that one because it's kind of, there was a progress almost as a direct results. Henry's entrance into York, kind of mapping that pilgrimage of grace route. And in the end, I mean none of the rebellions were arguably successful there was a lot of dissent in Henry's reign but nothing that ever changed his mind, especially in the first two of you know Anne Boleyn who was incredibly unpopular, especially in the southeast which was arguably the entire reason Henry took progress to Bristol so we kind of do see examples of where, if there were going to be any results from this bottom down approach, they didn't necessarily get very far that doesn't mean to, you know, that doesn't say that there weren't any examples just there aren't any that are incredibly apparent yet but I don't know maybe I'll find something later on in my research but that's, that's the pipe dream of every academic Yeah, again it's very difficult to talk about the chapel royal. Though I suppose sort of thinking about it. One of the clearest points that you know this clearly isn't that you know that there's more than room for a counter voice, though not sort of projected with the same, the same sort of volume is the fact that access to chapel access to the chapel rules fairly limited. And the music heard there was fair it was incredibly limited. Nowhere else in England, did you could you hear polyphony like that, unless you went to a cathedral on a particularly sumptuous holy day. And you know the French ambassador happened to be there as well. I think I think the fact that I think there's a real sort of lean in musicology and in history to see the chapel royal as a good thing. Something that sort of protected, you know, the polyphony of burden talus, and that's the reason that the Anglican church has lovely music now. And I think it's quite hard to get away from that actually. I think it's quite difficult to address the reason that parish churches, parish church choirs, really kind of began to dissolve. Obviously, puritanical puritanical and Calvinist inputs were instrumental in that. So there's room for, you know, a popular voice of the fact that people were quite frankly fed up of all of these of all of these parish choirs is a valid question. And could could possibly value from, you know, more more research. I am not putting myself on either side of the fence. No, yeah, I've just remembered it's particularly personally considering your research area as well that petitioning the king is a very big way in which Henry's well maybe not policy is influenced but there is an example of where two of his courtiers are executed as a direct result from petitioning the king. So that is one area of it's not my I've not looked much into it so you probably know more about this than me, but that's one area as well where the kind of, there's like a measurable in the impact of people, not necessarily on policy but on a sort of access to the king and more general areas of life. That was a really tough question, I apologize. And I think we don't know the answer to it yet. That's the kind of key thing. Okay, unless anybody else has any questions. I think we might wrap up there for a 20 minute tea and coffee break. I've been told to let you all know as well that the exhibition is still open upstairs for this next break so if you haven't had a chance to see it yet. We'll be right over there. And it remains to thank our speakers for three really great papers, I think fit together really well so thank you again.


18 It is to be all made of size and tears, it is to be all made of faith and service, it is to be all made of fantasy, all made of passion and all made of wishes, all adoration, duty and observance, all humbleness, all patience and impatience, all purity, all trial, all observance. It was near noon when the gale broke, and then its force abated as suddenly as its violence had arisen. In less than two hours after the wind fell, the surface of the lake, though still agitated, was no longer glittering with foam, and in double that time the entire sheet presented the ordinary scene of disturbed water that was unbroken by the violence of a tempest. Still the waves came rolling incessantly towards the shore, and the lines of breakers remained, though the spray-head ceased to fly. The combing of the swells was more moderate, and all that there was of violence proceeded from the impulsion of wind which had abated. As it was impossible to make head against the sea that was still up, with the light opposing air that blew from the eastward, all thoughts of getting under way that afternoon were abandoned. Jasper, who had now quietly resumed the command of the scud, busied himself, however, in heaving up the anchors which were lifted in succession. The cages that backed them were weighed, and everything was got in readiness for a prompt departure as soon as the state of the weather would allow. In the meantime they who had no concern with these duties sought such means of amusement as their peculiar circumstances allowed. As is common with those who were unused to the confinement of a vessel, Maple cast wistful eyes towards the shore, nor was it long before she expressed a wish that it were possible to land. The Pathfinder was near her at the time, and he assured her that nothing would be easier, as they had a barked canoe on deck, which was the best possible mode of convenience to go through a surf. After the usual doubts and misgivings the Sergeant was appealed to, his opinion proved to be favourable, and preparations to carry the women to effect were immediately made. The party which was to lend consisted of Sergeant Dunham, his daughter, and the Pathfinder. Accustomed to the canoe, Maple took her seat in the centre with great steadiness. Her father was placed in the boughs, while the guide assumed the office of conductor, by steering in the stern. There was little need of impelling the canoe by means of the paddle, for the rollers sent it forward at moments with a violence that set every effort to govern its movements at defiance. More than once, before the shore was reached, Maple repented of her temerity, but Pathfinder encouraged her and really manifested so much self-possession, coolness, and strength of arm himself that even a female might have hesitated about owning all her apprehensions. Our heroine was no-coward, and while she felt the novelty of her situation in landing through a surf, she also experienced a fair proportion of its wild delight. At moments, indeed, her heart was in her mouth, as the bubble of a boat floated on the very crest of a foaming breaker, appearing to skim the water like a swallow, and then she flushed and laughed, as left by the glancing element, the appeared to linger behind as if ashamed of having been outdone in the headlong race. A few minutes sufficed for this excitement, for though the distance between the cutter and the land considerably exceeded a quarter of a mile, the intermediate space was passed in a very few minutes. On landing, the sergeant kissed his daughter kindly, for he was so much of a soldier as always to feel more at home on terra firma than when afloat, and, taking his gun, he announced his intention to pass an hour in quest of game. Bathfinder will remain near you, girl, and no doubt he will tell you some of the traditions of this part of the world, or some of his own experiences with the mingos. The guide laughed, promised to have a care of Mabel, and in a few minutes the father had ascended to steep aclivity and disappeared in the forest. The others took another direction, which, after a few minutes of a sharp ascend also, brought them to a small naked point on the promontory, where the eye overlooked an extensive and very peculiar panorama. Here Mabel seated herself on a fragment of fallen rock to recover her breath and strength, while her companion, on whose sinews no personal exertion seemed to make any impression, stood at her side, leaning in his own and not ungraceful manner on his long rifle. Several minutes passed, and neither spoke, Mabel in particular being lost in admiration of the view. The position the two had obtained was sufficiently elevated to command a wide reach of the lake, which stretched away towards the northeast in a boundless sheet, glittering beneath the rays of an afternoon sun, and yet betraying the remains of that agitation which it had endured, while tossed by the late tempest. The land set bounds to its limits in a huge crescent, disappearing in distance towards the southeast and the north. Far as the eye could reach, nothing but forest was visible, not even a solitary sign of civilization, breaking in upon the uniform and grand magnificence of nature. The gale had driven the scud beyond the line of those forts, with which the French were then endeavouring to gird the English North American possessions, for, following the channels of communications between the Great Lakes, their posts were on the banks of the Niagara, while our adventurers had reached a point many leagues westward of that celebrated strait. The cutter rode at single anchor, without the breakers, resembling some well-imagined and accurately executed toy, intended rather for a glass case than for struggles with the elements which he had so lately gone through, while the canoe lay on a narrow beach, just out of reach of the waves that came booming upon the land, a speck upon the shingles. We are very far here from human habitations, exclaimed Mabel, when, after a long survey of the scene, its principal peculiarities forced themselves on her active and ever-brilliant imagination. This is indeed being on a frontier. Have they more sightly scenes than this, nearer the sea and around their large towns, demanded Pathfinder, with an interest he was apt to discover in such a subject? I will not say that. There is more to remind one of his fellow-beings there, than here. Less perhaps, to remind one of God. I, Mabel, that is what my own feelings say. I am but a poor hunter, I know, untaught and unlawed, but God is as near me, in this my home as he is near the king in his royal palace. Who can doubt it? returned Mabel, looking from the view up into the hard-featured but honest face of her companion, though not without surprise at the energy of his manner. One feels nearer to God in such a spot, I think, than when the mind is distracted by the objects of the towns. You say all I wish to say myself, Mabel, but in so much plainer speech that you make me ashamed of wishing to let others know what I feel on such matters. I have coasted this lake in search of skins before the war, and have been here already, not at this very spot, for we landed yonder, where you may see the blasted oak that stands above the cluster of hemlocks. How, Pathfinder, can you remember all these trifles so accurately? These are our streets and houses, our churches and palaces. Remember them indeed. I once made an appointment with a big serpent to meet at twelve o'clock at noon near the foot of a certain pine at the end of six months when neither of us was within three hundred miles of the spot. The tree stood and stand still, unless the judgment of Providence is lighted on that, too, in the midst of the forest fifty miles from any settlement but in a most extraordinary neighborhood for beaver. And did you meet at that very spot an hour? Does the sun rise and set? When I reached the tree I found the serpent leaning against its trunk with torn leggings and muddied moccasins. The Delaware had got into a swamp, and it worried him not a little to find his way out of it. But as the sun which comes over the eastern hills in the morning goes down behind the western at night, so was he true to time and place. No fear of Chingach Gok when there is either a friend or an enemy in the case. He is equally certain with each. And where is the Delaware now? Why is he not here with us today? He is scouting on the Mingo Trail, where I ought to have been, too, but for a great human infirmity. You seem above, beyond, superior to all infirmity, Pathfinder. I never yet met with a man who appeared to be so little liable to the weaknesses of nature. If you mean in the way of health and strength, Mabel, Providence has been kind to me, though I fancy the open air, long hunts, active scoutings, forest fare, and the sleep of a good conscience may always keep the doctors at a distance. But I'm human after all. Yes. I find I'm very human in some of my feelings. Mabel looks surprised, and it would be no more than delineating the character of her sex if we added that her sleep countenance expressed a good deal of curiosity, too, though her tongue was more discreet. There is something bewitching in this wild life of yours, Pathfinder. She exclaimed, a tinge of enthusiasm mantling her cheeks. I find I'm fast getting to be a frontier girl, and I'm coming to love all this grand silence of the woods. The town seemed tame to me, and as my father will probably pass the remainder of his days here, where he has already lived so long, I begin to feel that I should be happy to continue with him, and not to return to the seashore. The woods are never silent, Mabel, to such as understand their meaning. Days at a time have I traveled them alone, without feeling the want of company, and as for conversation, for such as can comprehend their language, there is no want of rational and instructive discourse. I believe you are happier when a lone Pathfinder than when mingling with your fellow creatures. I will not say that. I will not say exactly that. I have seen the time when I have thought that God was sufficient for me in the forest, and that I have craved no more than his bounty and his care. But other feelings have got uppermost, and I suppose nature will have its way. All other creatures mate, Mabel, and it was intended man should do so too. And have you never be thought you of seeking a wife, Pathfinder, to share your fortunes? Inquired the girl, with the directness and simplicity that the pure of heart and the undesigning are the most apt to manifest, and with that feeling of affection which is inbred in her sex. To me it seems you only want a home to return to from your wanderings to render your life completely happy. Where I am man, it would be my delight to roam through these forests at will, or to sail over this beautiful lake. I understand you, Mabel, and God bless you for thinking of the welfare of men as humble as we are. We have our pleasures, it is true, as well as our gifts. But we might be happier. Yes, I do think we might be happier. Happier? In what way, Pathfinder? In this pure air, with these cool and shaded forests to wander through, this lovely lake to gaze at and sail upon, with clear consciences and abundance for all their real wants, men ought to be nothing less than perfectly happy as their infirmities will allow. Every creature has its gifts, Mabel, and men have theirs. Answered the guide, looking stealthily at his beautiful companion, whose cheeks had flushed and eyes brightened under the ardour of feelings excited by the novelty of her striking situation. And all must obey them. Do you see under pigeon that is just alighting on the beach, here in a line with a fallen chestnut? Certainly. It is the only thing stirring with life in it besides ourselves that is to be seen in this vast solitude. Not so, Mabel, not so. Providence makes nothing that lives to live quite alone. Here is its mate just rising on the wing. It has been feeding near the other beach, but it will not long be separated from its companion. I understand you, Pathfinder. Returned Mabel, smiling sweetly, though as calmly as if the discourse was with her father. But a hunter may find a mate, even in this wild region. The Indian girls are affectionate and true, I know, for such was the wife of Arrowhead, to a husband who often her frowned than smiled. That would never do, Mabel, and good would never come of it. Kind must cling to kind, and country to country, if one would find happiness. If indeed I could meet with one like you, who would consent to be a hunter's wife, and it would not scorn my ignorance and rudeness, then indeed would all the toil of the past appear like the sporting of the young deer and all the future like sunshine. One like me, a girl of my years and indiscretion, would hardly make a fit companion for the boldest scout and sureest hunter on the lines. Ah, Mabel, I fear me that I have been improving a Redskins' gifts with a pale-face's nature. Such a character would ensure a wife in an Indian village. Surely, surely, Pathfinder, you would not think of choosing one so ignorant, so frivolous, so vain, and so inexperienced as I for your wife. Mabel would have added, and as young, but an instinctive feeling of delicacy repressed the words. And why not, Mabel, if you are ignorant of frontier usages, you know more than all of us of pleasant anecdotes and town customs. As for frivolous, I know not what it means, but if it signifies beauty, as me, I fear it is no fault in my eyes. Vain you are not, as is seen by the kind manner in which you listen to all my idle tales about scoutings and trails. And as for experience, that will come with years. Besides, Mabel, I fear men think little of these matters when they are about to take wives. I do. Pathfinder, your words, your looks. Surely all this is meant in trifling. You speak in pleasantry? To me it is always agreeable to be near you, Mabel, and I should sleep sounder of this blessed night than I have done for a week past. Could I think that you find such discourse as pleasant as I do? We shall not say that Mabel Dunham had not believed herself a favourite with the guide. This her quick feminine sagacity had early discovered, and perhaps she had occasionally thought there had mingled with his regard and friendship some of that manly tenderness which the rude or sex must be, course indeed, not to show on occasions to the gentler. But the idea that he seriously sought her for his wife had never before crossed the mind of the spirited and ingenuous girl. Now, however, a gleam of something like the truth broke in upon her imagination, less induced by the words of her companion, perhaps, than by his manner. Looking earnestly into the rugged, honest countenance of the scout, Mabel's own features became concerned and grave, and when she spoke again it was with the gentleness of manner that attracted him to her even more powerfully than the words themselves were calculated to repel. You and I should understand each other, Pathfinder, said she with an earnest sincerity, nor should there be any cloud between us.  Surely, surely all this means nothing. Has no other connection with your feelings than such a friendship as one of your wisdom and character would naturally feel for a girl like me? I believe it's all natural, Mabel. Yes, I do. The sergeant tells me he had such feelings towards your own mother, and I think I've seen something like it in the young people I have from time to time guided through the wilderness. Yes, yes, I daresay it's all natural enough, and that makes it come so easy and is a great comfort to me.  Speak plainer or change the subject forever. You do not. Cannot mean that. You cannot wish me to understand. Even the tongue of the spirited Mabel faltered, and she shrank with maiden shame from adding what she wished so earnestly to say. Rallying her courage, however, and determined to know all as soon and as plainly as possible after a moment's hesitation, she continued, I mean, Pathfinder, that you do not wish me to understand, that you seriously think of me as a wife? I do, Mabel. That's it. That's just it. And you have put the matter in a much better point of view than I with my forest gifts and frontier ways would ever be able to do. The sergeant and I have concluded on the matter, if it is agreeable to you, as he thinks is likely to be the case, though I doubt my own power to please one who deserves the best husband America can produce. Mabel's countenance changed from uneasiness to surprise, and then by a transition still quicker from surprise to pain. My father, she exclaimed, my dear father has thought of my becoming your wife, Pathfinder? Yes, he has, Mabel. He has indeed. He has even thought such a thing might be agreeable to you, and has almost encouraged me to fancy it might be true. But you yourself, you certainly can care nothing whether this singular expectation shall ever be realized or not. Anon! I mean, Pathfinder, that you have talked of this match more to oblige my father than anything else, that your feelings are no way concerned. Let my answer be what it may. The scout looked earnestly into the beautiful face of Mabel, which had flushed with the ardor and novelty of her sensations, and it was not possible to mistake the intense admiration that betrayed itself in every liniment of his ingenuous countenance. I have often thought myself happy, Mabel, when ranging the woods on a successful hunt, breathing the pure air of the hills, and filled with vigor and health. But I now know that it has all been idleness and vanity compared with the delight it would give me to know that you thought better of me than you think of most others. Better of you? I do indeed think better of you, Pathfinder, than of most others. I am not certain that I do not think better of you than of any other, for your truth, honesty, simplicity, justice, and courage are scarcely equal by any of earth. Ah, Mabel, these are sweet and encouraging words from you, and the sergeant after all was not so near wrong as I feared. Nay, Pathfinder, in the name of all that is sacred and just, do not let us misunderstand each other in a matter of so much importance, while I esteem, respect, nay, reverence you almost as much as I reverence my own dear father. It is impossible that I should ever become your wife, that I— The change in her companion's countenance was so sudden and so great, that the moment the effect of what she had uttered became visible in the face of the Pathfinder, Mabel arrested her own words, notwithstanding her strong desire to be explicit, the reluctance with which she could at any time cause pain being sufficient of itself to induce the pause.  The shade of disappointment that crossed the rugged liniments of the hunter, amounting so nearly to anguish as to frighten his companion. While the sensation of choking became so strong in the Pathfinder, that he fairly griped his throat, like one who sought physical relief for physical suffering. The convulsive manner in which his fingers worked actually struck the alarmed grove with a feeling of awe. Nay, Pathfinder, Mabel eagerly added, the instant she could command her voice, I may have said more than I mean for all things of this nature are possible, and women, they say, are never sure of their own minds. What I wish you to understand is that it is not likely that you and I should ever think of each other as man and wife ought to think of each other. I do not, I shall never think in that way again, Mabel, gasped forth the Pathfinder, who appeared to utter his words like one just raised above the pressure of some suffocating substance. No, no, I shall never think of you or anyone else again in that way. Pathfinder, dear Pathfinder, understand me, do not attach more meaning to my words than I do myself. A match like that would be unwise, unnatural perhaps. Yes, unnatural, again nature, and so I told the sergeant, but he would have it otherwise. Pathfinder, oh, this is worse than I could have imagined. Take my hand, excellent Pathfinder, and let me see that you do not hate me. For God's sake, smile upon me again.  Smile upon you. Ah, as me!  Both, both, Pathfinder, for I shall not be easy until I feel certain that we are friends again and that all this has been a mistake. Mabel said the guide, looking wistfully into the face of the generous and impetuous girl, as she held his two hard and sun-burnt hands in her own pretty and delicate fingers, and laughing in his own silent and peculiar manner, while anguished gleamed over liniments which seemed incapable of deception, even while agitated with emotions so conflicting. Mabel, the sergeant was wrong. The pent-up feelings could endure no more, and the tears rolled down the cheeks of the scout like rain. His fingers again worked convulsively at his throat, and his breast heaved, as if it possessed a tenet of which it would be rid by any effort, however desperate. Pathfinder, Pathfinder! Mabel almost shrieked. Anything but this, anything but this! Speak to me, Pathfinder! Smile again, say one kind word, anything to prove you can forgive me. The sergeant was wrong! exclaimed the guide, laughing amid his agony, in a way to terrify his companion by the unnatural mixture of anguish and light-heartedness. I knew it! I knew it! And said it! Yes! The sergeant was wrong after all! We can be friends, though we cannot be men and wife! continued Mabel, almost as much disturbed as her companion, scarcely knowing what she said. We can always be friends, and always will. I thought the sergeant was mistaken! resumed the Pathfinder, when a great effort had enabled him to command himself. For I did not think my gifts were such as would please the fancy of a town-bred girl. It would have been better, Mabel, had he not over-persuaded me into a different notion, and it might have been better, too, had you not been so pleasant and confiding like. Yes, it would. If I thought any error of mine had raised false expectations in you, Pathfinder, however unintentionally on my part, I should never forgive myself, for, believe me, I would rather endure pain in my own feelings than you should suffer. That's just it, Mabel. That's just it. These speeches and opinions, spoken in so soft a voice, and in a way I'm so unused to in the woods, have done the mischief. But I now see plainly and begin to understand the difference between us better, and will strive to keep down thought, and to go abroad again as I used to do, looking for the game and the enemy. Ah, it's me, Mabel. I have indeed been on a false trail since we met. In a little while you will forget all this, and think of me as a friend, who owes you her life. This may be the way in the towns, but I doubt if it's natural to the woods. With us, when the eye sees a lovely sight, it is apt to keep it long in view, or when the mind takes in an upright and proper feeling, it is loathed the part with it.  So I told the sergeant, but he would have it otherwise. I knew you was too young and beautiful for one of middle age, like myself, and who never was comely to look at, even in youth. And then your ways have not been my ways, nor would a hunter's cabin be a fitting place for one who was educated among chiefs, as it were.  We can talk of something else. Jasper is a worthy lad, Mabel, I, and a comely. Returned the guileless guide, looking earnestly at the girl, as if he distrusted her judgment in speaking slightingly of his friend. Where I only half as comely as Jasper Western, my misgivings in this affair would not have been so great, and they might not have been so true. We will not talk of Jasper Western, repeated Mabel, the color-mounting to her temples. He may be good enough in a gale or on the lake, but he is not good enough to talk of here. I fear me, Mabel, he is better than the man who is likely to be your husband, though the sergeant says that can never take place. But the sergeant was wrong once, and he may be wrong twice. And who is likely to be my husband, Pathfinder? This is scarcely less strange than what has just passed between us. I know it is natural for like to seek like, and for them that have consorted much with officers' ladies, to wish to be officers' ladies themselves. But, Mabel, I may speak plainly to you, I know, and I hope my words will not give you pain, for now I understand what is to be disappointed in such feelings I wouldn't wish to cause even a mingo sorrow on this hand. But happiness is not always to be found in a marquee, any more than in a tent, and though the officers' quarters may look more tempting than the rest of the barracks, there is often great misery between husband and wife inside of their doors. I do not doubt it is in the least, Pathfinder, and did it rest with me to decide. I would sooner follow you to some cabin in the woods and share your fortune, though it might be better or worse, than go inside the door of any officer I know, with an intention of remaining there as its master's wife. Mabel, this is not what Lundy hopes, or Lundy thinks. And what care I for Lundy? He is major of the Fifty-Fifth, and may command his men to wheel and march about as he pleases, but he cannot compel me to wed the greatest or the meanest of his mess. Besides, what can you know of Lundy's wishes on such a subject? From Lundy's own mouth the sergeant had told him that he wished me for a son-in-law, and the major, being an old and a true friend, conversed with me on the subject. He put it to me plainly, whether it would not be more generous in me to let an officer succeed, than to strive to make you share a hunter's fortune. I owned the truth, I did, and that was, that I thought it might. But when he told me that the quartermaster would be his choice, I would not abide by the conditions. No, no, Mabel, I know Davy Muir well, and though he may make you a lady, he can never make you a happy woman, or himself a gentleman. My father has been very wrong if he has said or done ought to cause you sorrow, Pathfinder, and so great is my respect for you, so sincere my friendship, that were it not for one, I mean that no person need fear Lieutenant Muir's influence with me. I would rather remain as I am to my dying day than become a lady at the cost of being his wife. I do not think you would say that which you do not feel, Mabel, returned Pathfinder earnestly. Not at such a moment, on such a subject, and least of all to you. No, Lieutenant Muir may find wives where he can. My name shall never be on his catalogue. Thank you. Thank you for that, Mabel. For though there is no longer any hope for me, I could never be happy were you to take to the quartermaster. I feared the commission might count for something I did, and I know the man. It is not jealousy that makes me speak in this manner, but truth, for I know the man.  Why always mention Jasper O'Doose, Pathfinder? He can have no concern with our friendship. Let us talk of yourself, and of the manner in which you intend to pass the winter. Ask me. I am little worth at the best, Mabel, unless it may be on a trail or with the rifle, and less worth now that I have discovered the sergeant's mistake. There is no need, therefore, of talking of me. It has been very pleasant to me to be near you so long, and even to fancy that the sergeant was right. But that is all over now. I shall go down the lake with Jasper, and then there will be business to occupy us, and that will keep useless thoughts out of the mind. And you will forget this. Forget me. No, not forget me, either, Pathfinder, but you will resume your old pursuits, and cease to think a girl of sufficient importance to disturb your peace? I never noted a four, Mabel, but girls are a more account in this life than I could have believed. Now a four I knowed you. The newborn babe did not sleep more sweetly than I used. My head was no sooner on the root or the stone, or my hap on the skin than always lost to the senses. Unless it might be to go over in the night the business of the day in a dreamlike, and there I lay till the moment came to be stirring, and the swallows were not more certain to be on the wing with the light than I to be afoot at the moment I wished to be. All this seemed a gift, and might be calculated on even in the midst of a mingo camp, for I have been outlying in my time in the very villages of the vagabonds. And all this will return to you, Pathfinder, for one so upright and sincere will never waste his happiness on a mere fancy. You will dream again of your hunts, of the deer you have slain, and of the beaver you have taken. As me, Mabel, I wish never to dream again. Before we met I had a sort of pleasure in following up the hounds, in fancy as it might be, and even in striking a trail of the Iroquois. Nay, I've been in scrimmages and ambushments, in thought-like, and found satisfaction in it, according to my gifts, but all these things have lost their charms since I made acquaintance with you. Now I think no longer of anything rude in my dreams, but the very last night we stayed in the garrison I imagined I had a cabin in a grove of sugar-maples, and at the root of every tree was a Mabel Dunham, while the birds among the branches sang ballads instead of the notes that nature gave, and even the deer stopped to listen. I tried to shoot a fawn, but killed their misfire, and the creature laughed at my face, as pleasantly as a young girl laughs in her merriment, and then it bounded away, looking back as if expecting me to follow. No more of this pathfinder will talk no more of these things, said Mabel, dashing the tears from her eyes, for the simple earnest manner in which this hearty woodsman betrayed the deep hold she had taken of his feelings nearly proved too much for her own generous heart. Now let us look for my father. He cannot be distant, as I heard his gun quite near. The sergeant was wrong. Yes, he was wrong, and it's of no avail to attempt to make the dove consort with a wolf. Here comes my dear father, interrupted Mabel. Let us look cheerful and happy pathfinder, as such good friends ought to look, and keep each other's secrets. A pause succeeded. The sergeant's foot was heard crushing the dried twigs hard by, and then his form appeared shoving aside the bushes of a cop's just near. As he issued into the open ground the old soldier scrutinized his daughter and her companion, and speaking good-naturedly he said, Mabel, child, you are young and light of foot. Look for a bird that I've shot that fell just beyond the thicket of young hemlocks on the shore. And as Jasper is showing signs of an intention of getting under way, you need not take the trouble to clamber up this hill again, but we will meet you on the beach in a few minutes. Mabel obeyed, bounding down the hill with the elastic step of youth and health, but notwithstanding the lightness of her steps the heart of the girl was heavy, and knew sooner was she hid from observation by the thicket than she threw herself on the root of a tree and wept as if her heart would break. The sergeant watched her until she disappeared, with the father's pride, and then turned to his companion with a smile as kind and as familiar as his habits would allow him to use towards any. She has her mother's lightness and activity, my friend, with some one of her father's force, said he. Her mother was not quite so handsome, I think myself, but the Dunham's were always thought comely, whether men or women. Well, Pathfinder, I take it for granted you've not overlooked the opportunity, but have spoken plainly to the girl. Women like frankness in matters of this sort. I believe Mabel and I understand each other at last, sergeant. Return the other, looking another way to avoid the soldier's face. So much the better. Some people fancy that a little doubt and uncertainty makes love all the livelier, but I am one of those who think the plainer the tongue speaks, the easier the mind will comprehend. Was Mabel surprised? I fear she was, sergeant. I fear she was taken quite by surprise. Yes, I do. Well, well, surprises and love are like an ambush in war, and quite as lawful, though it is not so easy to tell when a woman is surprised as to tell when it happens to an enemy. Mabel did not run away, my worthy friend, did she? No, sergeant. Mabel did not try to escape. That, I can say, with a clear conscience. I hope the girl was too willing, neither. Her mother was shy and coy for a month at least, but frankness, after all, is a recommendation in a man or woman. That it is. That it is. And judgment, too. You are not to look for too much judgment in a young creature of twenty, pathfinder, but it will come with experience. A mistake in you or me, for instance, might not be so easily overlooked, but in a girl of Mabel's years one is not to strain at a nat lest they swallow a camel. The reader will remember that Sergeant Dunham was not a Hebrew scholar. The muscles of the listener's face twitched as the sergeant was thus delivering his sentiments, though the former had now recovered a portion of that stoicism which formed so large a part of his character, and which he had probably imbibed from long association with the Indians. His eyes rose and fell, and once a gleam shot a thwart his hard features as if he were about to indulge in his peculiar laugh. But the joyous feeling, if it really existed, was as quickly lost in a look allied to anguish. It was this unusual mixture of wild and keen mental agony with native simple joyousness which had most struck Mabel, who, in the interview just related, had a dozen times been on the point of believing that her suitor's heart was only lightly touched, as images of happiness and humor gleamed over a mind that was almost infantile in its simplicity and nature. An impression, however, which was soon driven away by the discovery of emotions so painful and so deep that they seemed to harrow the very soul. You say true, sergeant, Pathfinder answered, a mistake in one like you is a more serious matter. You will find Mabel sincere and honest in the end. Give her but a little time. Haas me, sergeant! A man of your merits would make an impression on a rock. Give him time, Pathfinder. Sergeant Dunham, we are old fellow campaigners. That is, as campaigns are carried on here in the wilderness, and we have done so many kind acts to each other that we can afford to be candid. What has caused you to believe that a girl like Mabel could ever fancy one so rude as I am? What? Why? A variety of reasons, and good reasons too, my friend. These same acts of kindness, perhaps, and the campaigns you mention, moreover, you are my sworn and tried comrade. All this sounds well, so far as you and I are concerned, but they do not touch the case of your pretty daughter. She may think these very campaigns have destroyed the little comeliness I may once have had, and I am not quite certain that being an old friend of her father would lead any young maiden's mind into a particular affection for a suitor. Like loves like, I tell you, sergeant, and my gifts are not altogether the gifts of Mabel Dunham. These are some of your old modest qualms, Pathfinder, and will do you no credit with the girl. Women distrust men who distrust themselves, and take to men who distrust nothing. Modesty is a capital thing in a recruit, I grant you, or in a young subaltern who is just joined, for it prevents his railing at the non-commissioned officers before he knows what is to rail at. I'm not sure it is out of place in a commissary or a parson, but it's the devil in all when it gets possession of a real soldier or a lover. Have as little to do with it as possible if you would win a woman's heart. As for your doctrine that like loves like, it is as wrong as possible in matters of this sort. If like loved like, women would love one another and men also. No, no, like loves dislike. The sergeant was merely a scholar of the camp, and you have nothing to fear from Mabel on that score. Look at Lieutenant Muir. The man has had five wives already, they tell me, and there is no more modesty in him than there is in a cat anine-tails. Lieutenant Muir will never be the husband of Mabel Dunham, let him ruffle his feathers as much as he may.  If I were an officer myself, Mr. Muir might have some chance, but time has placed one door between my child and myself, and I don't intend there shall be that of a marquis also. Sergeant, we must let Mabel follow her own fancy. She is young and light of heart, and God forbid that any wish of mine should lay the weight of a feather on a mine that is all gaiety now, or take one note of happiness from her laughter. Have you converse freely with the girl? The sergeant demanded quickly, and with some asperity of manner. Pathfinder was too honest to deny a truth plain as that which the answer required, and yet too honorable to betray Mabel, and expose her to the resentment of one whom he well knew to be stern in his anger. We have laid open our minds, he said, and though Mabel's is one that any man might love to look at, I find little there, Sergeant, to make me think any better of myself. The girl has not dared to refuse you, to refuse her father's best friend. Pathfinder turned his face away to conceal the look of anguish the consciousness told him was passing a thwarted, but he continued the discourse in his own quiet manly tones. Mabel is too kind to refuse anything, or to utter harsh words to a dog. I have not put the question in a way to be downright refused, Sergeant. And did you expect my daughter to jump into your arms before you asked her? She would not have been her mother's child had she done any such thing, nor do I think she would have been mine. The Dunham's like plain dealing as well as the King's Majesty, but they are no jumpers.  I'll speak to Mabel myself this very evening, using your name as principal in the affair. I'd rather not. I'd rather not, Sergeant. Leave the matter to Mabel and me, and I think we will all come right in the end. Young girls are like timorous some birds. They do not over relish being hurried or spoken harshly to, neither. Leave the matter to Mabel and me. On one condition I will, my friend, and that is that you will promise me, on the honor of a scout, that you will put the matter plainly to Mabel the first suitable opportunity, and no mincing of words. I will ask her, Sergeant, on condition that you promise not to meddle in the affair. Yes, I will promise to ask Mabel whether she will marry me, even though she laugh in my face at my doing so, on that condition. Sergeant Dunham gave the desired promise very cheerfully, for he had completely wrought himself up into the belief that the man he had so much esteemed himself must be acceptable to his daughter. He had married a woman much younger than himself, and he saw no unfitness in the respective years of the intended couple. Mabel was educated so much above him, too, that he was not aware of the difference which actually existed between the parent and child in this respect. It followed that Sergeant Dunham was not altogether qualified to appreciate his daughter's tastes, or to form a very probable conjecture what would be the direction taken by those feelings which often are depend on impulses and passion than on reason. Still, the worthy soldier was not so wrong in his estimate of the Pathfinder's chances, as might at first appear. Knowing all the sterling qualities of the man, his truth, integrity of purpose, courage, self-devotion, disinterestedness, it was far from unreasonable to suppose that qualities like these would produce a deep impression on any female heart, and the father aired principally infancing that the daughter might know as it might be by intuition what he himself had acquired by years of intercourse and adventure. As Pathfinder and his military friend descended the hill to the shore of the lake, the discourse did not flag. The latter continued to persuade the former that his diffidence alone prevented complete success with Mabel, and that he had only to persevere in order to prevail. Pathfinder was much too modest by nature and had been too plainly, though so delicately, discouraged in the recent interview to believe all he heard. Still, the father used so many arguments which seemed plausible, and it was so grateful to fancy that the daughter might yet be his, that the reader is not to be surprised when he is told that this unsophisticated being did not view Mabel's recent conduct in precisely the light in which he may be inclined to view it himself. He did not credit all that the sergeant told him, it is true, but he began to think virgin coyness and ignorance of her own feelings might have induced Mabel to use the language she had. The quartermaster is no favorite, said Pathfinder, in answer to one of his companion's remarks. Mabel will never look on him as more than one who has had four or five wives already. Which is more than his share. A man may marry twice without offence to good morals and decency, I allow, but four times is an aggravation. I should think even marrying once what Master Cap calls a circumstance, put in Pathfinder laughing in his quiet way, for by this time his spirits had recovered some of their buoyancy. It is indeed, my friend, had a most solemn circumstance too. If it were not that Mabel is to be your wife, I would advise you to remain single. But here is the girl herself, and discretion is the word. As me, Sergeant, I fear you are mistaken.