I'd like to welcome you to the Wednesday weekly webinar series. This is our third series of webinars and I'm going to show you shortly the upcoming webinars. My name is Julie Gardin Robinson. I'm a professor and food nutrition specialist for the extension service here at North Dakota State University. And I'm happy to announce that we have nine more webinars coming up on a weekly basis. Please join us next week at this time to hear Tom Kelb talk about recommended vegetable varieties. We'll hear from Chandra, our agent in Berlie County, about regulations that apply when preparing food for the public. We'll hear from Dave Sikowski, who is a lawyer and a professor on campus. He will be talking about U.S. food law. If you like wine, you might want to catch these sagacers talk on home winemaking. And on the 29th, we have a special guest from Dakota College at Botno. Holly Mabe will be talking about herbs from Garden to Table. And rounding out our series on April 5th, we'll hear from Kim Koch, who's the feed production center manager at Northern Crops Institute, who's taken a lot of coursework on fisma. So he'll be telling you a little bit more, quite a bit more than I'll be sharing today in my talk. And Esther will be joining us on the 12th of April with an update on spotted winged risoff law or food flies in North Dakota. Cliff Hall, professor in plant sciences or food science to be exact, will be talking about how to can low and high acid foods. In the case of low acid that would be for home use. And finally, rounding out the series is Todd Wyman. And he's a horticulture agent here in Cass County in Fargo. And he'll be talking about introducing youth to gardening. So please join us again. And each of the webinars lasts no more than an hour. Some logistics, I have you all in listening mode. I will try to keep my eye on the chat pod. But I have a lot of things going around. I have three screens on my computer, so I'll try to keep one eye on the chat pod in case you have a question. You can always follow up with me by email or call, whatever. I'm happy to help you. I am basing my talk today on a three inch binder of information. So you're not getting all of the details obviously. So if you have some really complex questions, I'm happy to share that information. There is a short survey and I would greatly appreciate your help in filling out the survey. It will be emailed to you. And because this project was funded by a grant, your responses are really important because I need to share those responses back with the funding agency. We also have a field to fork website that grows more and more. And I'm just going to be adding some new handouts. And for those of you who are either educators or those who maybe sell at a farmer's market, we have a whole series of front and back two-page handouts that might be helpful. And we have lots of links to our other resources and you're totally welcome to use whatever you like. Just go ahead and print it out. There's no special permissions or anything like that. We just want you to use these items and hopefully help people eat safe food and eat healthy food. So again, my topic for today is called food safety from field to fork. So I'm going to try to explain some of the new rulings that have come out and hopefully bring it to life a little bit. Whether you are a home gardener, whether you are growing to sell or you're just interested in the topic. I hope that you glean something from today's discussion and just know that there's a whole lot more that goes beyond what I'm talking about today. So this is mostly an introduction for you. And I'm happy to see 37 people signed on. So that is wonderful. So today I'll be talking a little bit, as I mentioned, about SISMA. And that's the acronym for the Food Safety Modernization Act. We're going to talk a little bit about microbiology, not too much, but we'll talk about the specific microbes that are most concerned in produce. And how do they get there? I'll focus most of my time today on humans and animals. If you decide after hearing today what we're talking about that you want to hear more about soil or water, I can certainly touch bases with our specialists in those areas. They're far more qualified to talk about soil and water than I am. And then I'll round it out with some other risks to consider. And the final slide I just popped in about a half hour ago is a page out of a publication from a number of years ago. And it's the consumer recommendations for safe food handling of fresh fruits and vegetables. That will round off our topic today. So let's get started. Managing the whole idea of food safety on a farm is quite complex. If you think about all the things that are going on in nature, we have birds flying over. You might have cattle, maybe chickens. You might be irrigating. There could be deer. There could be raccoons. There could be squirrels and all other types of animals that we really might have difficulty controlling. And there might also be manure storage if you happen to use manure as a fertilizer. So with all of these different things, it becomes quite a complex issue in terms of management. So along came the Food Safety Modernization Act. It is now completely in effect. And it's the first ever mandatory federal standard for growing, harvesting, packing, and holding of fresh produce. Now there are some people, if you happen to be a grower, you may be eligible for an exemption. And that's an exclusion which might be based on what commodity is grown. And I'll ask a question. In your chat pod, can you think of things, types of fruits and vegetables that would rarely be consumed raw? If you can type them in if you can think of things that maybe you need to cook these first. Potatoes, squash, what other ones? Sweet corn. There is a whole long list that also includes things like sugar beets, garden beets, sour cherries. I don't think we grow many of those. Other parts of the United States that could include cashews, cocoa beans, coffee beans, colored greens, cranberries, dill, eggplants, figs, peanuts, pecans. So there's a long list of things that would be exempted. And then you might also be exempted because you're going to further process these foods.  And these exemptions, and I'll show you in the next slide or two, are often based on an average annual produce sales to both qualified end users and also average annual food sales. But it's really important whether we're growing food for ourselves or families or friends or relatives or for the public. I think it's always important for all of us to think a little bit about food safety because nobody wants to get sick. And some of the organisms I will be talking about can go beyond making us sick. They, in fact, can lead to death. So very important to consider all these things. So these are the times for compliance with this new produce safety rule. So after the effective date of 126.16, that was when this all came to be. So by 18, businesses with sales, average annual sales over $500,000 had two years. So 2018 would be their compliance date. By 2019, small businesses, and those are defined as selling 250,000 to 500,000 on an annual basis over the course of three years, so it's a three-year average of 250 to 500,000. They would have till 2019. And if you happen to be a small, very small business with about $25,000 or more, up to $250,000, you would have until 2020.  And let's go on to a little bit about outbreaks.  So if we take a look here on this slide, you can certainly see what's been implicated in the most outbreaks associated with produce. So raise your hand if you've ever heard of a foodborne illness outbreak associated with spinach or another leafy green. Yes, I figured that would be the case. They made the news in a big way. And in fact, leafy greens amount for 25% of the outbreaks associated with fresh produce. Sprouts, if I've ever done to a conference and anyone talks about what food wouldn't you eat? What food would you take out of your diet? Because it makes you kind of nervous. And the food safety experts I've heard giving talks, nine times out of 10 will say sprouts. Just impossible to clean them. And in fact, in a lot of places that serve vulnerable populations, for example, very young children or elderly, they don't even serve sprouts on the menu. So those of us who are reasonably healthy, we can eat sprouts. They won't be a big problem for us, but you can see that they amount for about a quarter of the outbreaks. And then you can look around the edge there to the left of the circle. Everything from papayas to grapes, almonds, mangoes, green onions you may have heard of oftentimes in things like salsa, cucumbers, even herbs like cilantro, basil, parsley have been linked to some outbreaks, berries. And in the case of berries, it's often linked to the water used to clean those berries, even tomatoes and melons. Now, my main job is actually in nutrition, so I don't want you to be deterred from eating plenty of fruits and vegetables by these. But the thing to remember is that we have to take steps to keep them safe. And certainly growers, food processors are very much concerned that they will always provide you with a safe product. So, you know, these kinds of graphs and images are the reason probably that FISMA was really brought into play. Because, you know, it can be a deadly thing if a foodborne illness occurs. So, what microbes are concerned, here's a very quick trip through some microbiology. Of course, microorganisms just means they're very, very small organisms. We can't see them with our bare eyes. The main bacteria of concern tend to be salmonella, toxogenic E. coli, chigella. And by the way, we're the only carriers of chigella. Chigella has often been associated with outbreaks in daycare centers, childcare centers, because of the way they've changed diapers and haven't washed their hands. Listeria monocytogenes is a type of bacteria that will actually grow in the refrigerator. And some cases have even been linked to pickles that have not been properly made. They might ferment the pickles, but not heat treat those pickles. So, that has been an issue with some fermented pickles. What about viruses? Let me ask you a question. So, on norovirus, what do we associate with norovirus? Where have you heard that being a problem? Any idea? Cruises, exactly, cruise ships. It also has been linked to fresh produce. We can certainly transfer in a variety of ways these different organisms. Another question for you. Hepatitis A. What organ in your body does hepatitis affect? You know, I've got balance here. Your liver is exactly right. And that can have some far-reaching effects. People will have a goldish cast to their skin. The whites of their eyes may appear gold. A third group of microorganisms of concern are the parasites. These are usually found in water. So, maybe giardia, cryptosporidium, glyclospora, and so on.  Because it's not that the produce is bad, it's probably very nutritious, but very likely it's been washed with the water that our bodies may not be able to tolerate. So, those are three microorganism groups that can be of great concern. So, a little bit of background on bacteria. Bacteria are microbes, microorganisms that can multiply both in and outside of a host. And as I mentioned, it might include E. coli 0157 H7, which if you think about that one, you probably associate that with ground beef that's been undercooked. And you'd be exactly right. But it can find its way, as we'll see shortly, onto fresh produce. Bacteria can multiply very rapidly given the right conditions. Bacteria need food just like us. They need a certain amount of water. And they need the right temperature. So, if you're in a nice room now, right around that 70 degree range, bacteria love that. That's a great temperature for them to grow. So, you may have heard of the term good agricultural practices or gaps. These can reduce our risk. They minimize situations that can support bacterial survival and growth. So, it might be proper temperature control, for example. I wish we were all in the same room because I have a great demonstration of this. It's a little bit harder to show on a screen. But if we started with two bacteria, that would be a very, very small number. It's very unlikely you'd start with that small of a number. So, let's say you brought a roast beef sandwich to work with you. And you set it on your desk. Theoretically, every 20 minutes, those bacteria will split in half. So, by 40 minutes, we're at four bacteria. Skip down to 100 minutes where it's 32. Then we really start going. By four hours, you're at 4,096. Keep that on your nice warm desk. You got 262,000. And by eight hours, let's say you didn't have time to eat, and you're going to bring that sandwich home, don't do it. Because that has leveled out at over 16 million bacteria. So, this is why we in food safety have rules, like no more than two hours at the temperature danger zone, which includes room temperature. We want to control temperature. And as you see on my screen, some pathogens or disease-causing organisms can make people sick with only 10 cells or less. In the case of E. coli, that's one of the ones. E. coli 0157H7 takes a very, very small infectious dose to make someone sick. And in the case of a vulnerable person, such as a very young child, an older person, someone who's pregnant, someone with a compromised immune system, they are more likely to suffer the worst consequences. So, think about the conditions that you are storing your food. And try to remember these little rules of thumb as we go through, that I'm sure all of us have learned somewhere along the way, but we have to be careful so we don't get so busy that we forget to do some of these things. So, again, conditions for bacterial growth, we have to provide them with food. And they like carbohydrates. They really like protein. They need enough water, or technically it's called water activity. They need enough time to grow. They need the right temperature. And if any of you are food preservers, you know that pH or acidity also affects bacterial growth. This is why we tell people to add lemon juice or vinegar when they're making their salsa or even canning their tomatoes. We should always acidify those, or it could be citric acid that we add, because some of these bacteria, especially the most dangerous ones in canned goods, must have the proper pH. And in the case of oxygen, many will grow with or without oxygen. Some are, you know, you must exclude oxygen in order for them to grow and produce their toxin. And that would be in the case of debatulism toxin. So just, you know, think about, there's an acronym we call FAT-TOM, food, acidity, temperature, time, oxygen, and moisture as a way to remember what you need to manage or control in order to deter the growth of bacteria. How are we doing out there? Give me a smile if you're still awake. I'll give you a smile. All right. So the next grouping of microorganisms I just wanted to talk a little bit about are the viruses. And these are very small particles that only will multiply on a host. When I was in microbiology a long time ago, they described viruses as a gene with a protein coat. Most of the time contamination is linked to an ill worker who's handling fresh produce. And that person has used the bathroom and has not washed his or her hands. Or the contamination could be contaminated water. And again, like some of our really bad bacteria, it only takes a few virus particles to make someone sick. And these can be very stable in the environment. They can live a long time. So these are the toughies. This is why norovirus continues to be an issue. And there's actually limited options even for effective sanitizers. So what we say, you always have to keep your hands very clean, keep your equipment very clean, and sanitize as you can, but really try to avoid the contamination in the first place. Parasites. Well, I'm glad we're not all having lunch because this is kind of an icky topic, isn't it? Intestinal worms, protozoa, and these can only multiply in a host animal or in a human. And they're usually transmitted by water. So again, this is why when you go to another country with perhaps not the same sanitation standards that we have, you have to be very cautious about whether or not you drink the water. Sometimes these parasites can be very stable. And again, they can survive in the body for a long time before you even become sick. So this slide kind of tells the number of outbreaks, number of illnesses, hospitalizations, and deaths. So let's start at the top there with bacteria. You can see bacteria are linked with almost the most deaths by far, the most hospitalizations, the most illnesses, and the most outbreaks. So 85.55% of outbreaks linked to, if we burn illness, produce outbreaks are bacterial. So that's why we spend more time trying to defend our produce against things like E. coli and Salmonella. Next, in terms of deaths, I guess would be the viruses. And they also have the most, you know, second to the bacterial, second to the viral. And 993 illnesses and three outbreaks. So just give you a big view. And I was actually pretty surprised when I looked at these numbers. And these are from 96 to 2014. So it's not per year, but that's still a lot of people to land in the hospital because they ate their vegetables. 1,844. And 11,377 illnesses. So we want to prevent this, of course. So are these microbial risks the only ones? You know, most of these, again, are linked back to the ones I've mentioned, E. coli, Salmonella, Listeria. But we can also have chemical and physical risks. So chemical risks might be the sanitizer that you use. Physical risks are things that we can see and touch. So I'm going to ask you the question. I always ask my students when I'm doing a food safety talk. I just gave a talk a few weeks ago. And I said, what do you think is the worst thing that people think of that they could find in their food? What do you think they say? Yes, Cliff and Susie and Ellen are all correct.  It's past. I agree. It's pretty disgusting. Oh, yeah, that wouldn't be too good either. But, you know, it would be considered physical risk. But it isn't the biggest hazard. The biggest hazards are going to be the biological ones, bacteria again. Chemical risks, what would be some things that could pose a chemical risk associated with food? Can you think of anything? Yeah, Janet, correct. Cleaners, bleach, sanitisers, all these things. So we really, if we are using chemicals around food, and it's very widely used, pesticides certainly, thank you, Vanessa. It's really important that we use the chemicals, if we are going to use chemicals for sanitizing appropriately. We use the right amount that is recommended by the manufacturer. There are other ways to sanitize, and those include very hot water is another way to sanitize. But many people in food service, whenever you eat out, they are using some type of sanitizer because they need to reduce the amount of organisms that might be on the cutting boards, or tables, or counters, and so on. But in too high amounts, again, we can have these other risks with chemicals. So you did very well. Thank you for your participation in these chat box. Pesticides, detergents, sanitizers, and other chemicals that might be on farm, like pesticides. So to reduce chemical food safety risks associated with produce, keep the chemicals locked and stored away from produce packing and storage. Train workers and develop detailed standard operating procedures for them to follow. And keep the data sheets on site, keep things on hand so they know what to do in case they splash some of the chemicals in their eyes. And when you're using oils or lubricants or chemicals, again, use it according to their label view. Some are for around food, others are not. And then always be sure that you're using nonreactive materials. And that's right. Someone said MSDS, thank you. That should say MSDS sheets, material safety data sheets on site. And I should have said this at the start. I do want to credit the slides that we have were adapted from the Produce Safety Alliance Grower Training and they were all developed by Cornell. So I do want to thank them for providing these and also a three inch binder with a lot more information. A little bit more about physical food safety risks. Think about what could fall into the food that you don't want there. You don't want hair in there, of course, but you also don't want wood, metal, glass, plastic, or other foreign objects. And to reduce these chances for physical food safety risks, you can do things like screen or cover your overhead light bulbs. Replace with shatter proof fixtures. Inspect bearings, other moving equipment to make sure they're working the way they should. Be sure to cover packing materials and produce containers to reduce the risk of any physical hazards from getting into the food. Physical hazards can do lots of different things. You know, if you have wood or plastic in an item that someone were to eat, that could pose choking risks. It could do lots of harm. It could chip teeth. There's all sorts of things that can happen if you have stones and other foreign objects in the produce. And thank you, Glass, from Todd and Bread Bag Twist Ties. Exactly. Those are excellent examples of things that could end up in food that we don't want there, as well as lubricants.  This is great. All right. So some big challenges with produce safety include the fact that most of the time we're going to consume fresh produce raw. In other words, not cooked. And the other problem or challenge, I guess I should say, with keeping fruits and vegetables safe is that it's hard to remove once it's on there. So once we have contamination that's occurred, it could get into those scars on the fruit or vegetable. It tends to be in the bruised areas or the cuts. And if we have very rough surfaces, so you can see the picture in the center. That's a cantaloupe skin with that netting on the outside, that roughness or even folds. And the large surface area, if you think about a cabbage or a head of lettuce, it becomes very challenging to rinse that off. And then the other thing that's happened is that this contamination that happens is sort of sporadic. It's not like a regular event. It's just sort of, look, now we have a produce outbreak with lettuce. Now we have one with onions and so on. And then the other thing that makes it a challenge is that bacteria can multiply on the surfaces and also in the wounds if you have the right conditions present. So you have the right temperature, given enough time. You don't have it cooled down, chilled, for example. So we talked a little bit about some of the microbes.  So we're going to mainly focus on humans and animals. But certainly we also can have other sources like soil and water, even our buildings, the tools we use, and the other equipment that we use. So there's a lot of ways that we can interject all these different contaminating factors. In fact, I think one of the produce outbreaks linked with spinach was due to a wild boar getting into the field. So, you know, fortunately, I don't think we have any of those in our state, but certainly animals can be an issue.  Just know that we, you know, we humans can certainly spread contamination. So that's why we really have to think about our own hygiene practices. Yes, we're going out to have fun and play in the dirt. And unfortunately, on a day when I have huge snowflakes falling in my window, I'm not thinking that I'm going to be planting a garden soon. I wish I were. But we have to think about our hygiene practices. We, if we are working with, you know, people who are helping us in our fields, we have to provide adequate training. We have to teach proper hand washing practices. We have to provide toilet facilities for the workers. And if we are sick, let's say we have the flu or we have, you know, we have diarrhea, we've got some gastrointestinal issues. We shouldn't be working handling food, whether that's, you know, in our house, in a food service operation or out in the field. The other things and injuries that produces blood, maybe you cut your hand and you get that blood on the fresh produce. That can certainly pose a huge food safety issue. And in that case, you'd have to get rid of that whole section that was contaminated with the blood. How about these animals? Certainly domesticated and wild animals can carry and transmit those pathogens, E. coli, salmonella, and so on. In fact, in some cases, you know, it's hard to control animals, certainly wild animals, from getting into our gardens into our fields. And that can result, if they get in, in direct fecal contamination of both the crops and the fields. So as they move through, you know, their hide can certainly carry the contaminants. And they can also contaminate water sources that you're using to irrigate. And further, runoff from manure can contaminate fields, other water sources, and even other crops. So animals can definitely be an issue, and they have been shown to be an issue as well. So we have different types of water. And again, if water is a topic that you want more, you want to learn more about, certainly, let us know on the follow-up survey. And I can talk to our water specialists, because that is a huge, very complex area of fisma. In fact, there was about an inch of a three-inch binder was about water, I think. Because water can carry and also spread the human pathogens and, in fact, can contaminate an entire field, or a large amount of produce. Once it's on, once that produce has become contaminated, it's really difficult to remove the microorganisms. So we might have production water from irrigation, crop spring. We might have post-harvest water from cooling the produce, washing it, waxing, cleaning. And then unexpected events. We certainly had enough flooding over the years in North Dakota to know how that can affect crops. So water definitely is a concern. Some other things to think about, soil amendments. Soil amendments might be Ramanur or other amendments, which can become a source of contamination if not properly handled and applied. So, for example, if it's applied too close to harvest, that could certainly become a food safety issue. Improper composting, as someone mentions, in the chat box, not storing it right, not storing these soil amendments correctly. Spread by the wind. Runoff, cross-contamination due to improper sanitation procedures. So, you know, again, I'm talking mainly about good agricultural practices today. But I want to let you know, as we learn more about FSMA, as this series of workshops goes on, that FSMA does require you to come up with a food safety plan to manage all of these hazards. And if any of you have ever had training on hazard analysis, critical control point, or HACCP, I found a lot of similarities in what FSMA teaches and what I've learned from that other system that we use more in food processing. So, again, soil can certainly be a source of contamination. Well, then we also may have surfaces, equipment, tools, buildings. Not cleaning, not having a proper cleaning schedule or sanitizing schedule. Even areas outside your building that are not kept mold can serve as test harbourage areas. They may want to, you know, hang out like those rabbits that like to hang around in our area in our yard. Standing water can become a source of contamination. So, part of this is just inspecting what you have going on. And I'll say this also includes just home gardening. Just thinking about all those rabbits and different things that can get around and how can we prevent them from getting in and hanging out in our food. So, I did want to, I'll continue here shortly, but I've taken a quick break here to remind you that we have a lot of resources that I think are pretty helpful. It's on our field of work website. We have a website within the website that's called Food Entrepreneur. And we have learning modules. And if you open up those modules, you will see there's probably eight or 10 different modules. One of them is on farmers market food safety. And I believe we also included composting of manure and things like that. So, that's a place to learn more. All right. So, let's go back to these humans. Workers can certainly be a food safety concern because, of course, we all can carry human pathogens. We can carry Shigella and shed it, which can get to our produce if we're handling it and not washing our hands properly. Workers can certainly spread these pathogens because most of the time when you harvest and pack things, you're using your hands. And hands are notorious for holding bacteria, spreading it from one place to another. So, again, we do need to provide training and whether that's your family that is helping you or people that you hire to help you. Really important to teach proper hand washing and have a policy on illnesses and injuries. Because getting blood, getting pathogens from hands can certainly lead to food-borne illness outbreaks.  So, those boots or shoes and so on, those are all routes of contamination. So, it's really important as we're teaching people, as we're working, you know, to try to be sure that food is handled safely. It's really important to have these good communication supports. We need to identify risks and do what we can to reduce those risks.  How do you identify a food safety risk? If you're walking out in the field and you see a deer poop, okay, it's a food safety risk. How can you reduce those risks that you find? And who to tell? And then always assure people that their food safety concerns are going to be taken seriously. So, communication is always key in safe food handling, whether it's for ourselves or families or for the public. So, some things for workers to remember. They must maintain personal cleanliness. They really shouldn't be cutting the dog and so on. They should avoid contact with animals unless it's a working animal. They should maintain their gloves in a sanitary condition if they're using gloves. And gloves might be plastic gloves in some cases, or it could be reusable washable gloves in other cases. We always say in food safety that keeping hand jewelry off our hands is a good idea. Wearing hair restraints, someone mentioned. Not eating chewing gum or using tobacco in an area used for a covered activity. A covered activity refers to something that's under the regulations of fisma. If you're sick, and that usually means you have a fever, flu-like symptoms, you should tell your supervisor, and always, always, always wash your hands. I spent a lot of my time teaching proper hand washing. In fact, this slide shows some of the times, and you all know this of course, when hands should be washed, certainly after using the toilet, before starting or before returning to work. Before and after eating and after smoking, if you happen to smoke. Before you put on your gloves. What I see a lot of times as I've worked with students and also professionals is that people put their gloves on and they don't wash their hands. You certainly want to wash them first. If you touch an animal or animal waste, of course you have to wash your hands very thoroughly and then any other time. I didn't include specific information about what kind of soap should be used, but it really doesn't matter what kind of soap. You should use soap. Now use soap. But it doesn't have to be antibacterial. In fact, some of the latest research that's come out really stresses that some of the antibacterial products are probably worse for us than just regular soap. Liquid soap is probably easiest to deal with. Some of the antibacterial products are probably worse for the environment and worse for us in general, because they have been shown, particularly this trichlacan product, that might actually promote the development of resistant strains of bacteria. So the word I'm getting as I go to different conferences is just use soap, not super special soap. And the same one holds true at home. It doesn't even matter what temperature the water is as long as that water, keep your hands under the water and scrub your hands long enough. I don't think I have my number of seconds listed so far. So how many seconds should we wash our hands? Twenty seconds. How long should we wash our hands? Twenty. Twenty is correct. You can wash them 30. That's good.  So we want to wash and scrub our hands thoroughly. That's extremely important. Probably the best food safety rule there is. With clothing, when we're handling fresh produce, because we aren't necessarily cooking fresh produce, lettuce isn't exactly appetizing when it's boiled. We have to think about avoiding contamination from other things, like clothing. Keep our footwear clean. If we happen to be wearing reusable gloves, they should be cleaned often. Aprons, other food safety equipment, must be removed before using the bathroom and then stored in a clean designated area. These are just some things that I think are all common sense, but sometimes get forgotten. The times to exclude a worker from handling food would be, if they had symptoms, and I've mentioned a couple of these, diarrhea certainly, fever, but also nausea or vomiting or jaundice or that yellowing, which could indicate hepatitis. So an ill worker must not handle fresh produce, because they could certainly transfer their illness to that produce. And it's kind of amazing how long, in some cases, some of these bacteria can survive on inanimate objects. So if they're sick, they need to go home and get better. If the worker hurts him or herself, make sure that you have a first aid kit ready. They should clean and bandage wounds. And any produce that could have gotten contaminated, maybe they bled a little bit.  Make sure that you have the proper first aid and that you discard any produce that could have gotten contaminated. With any bodily fluid. And if you're the supervisor, they should report their injuries to you. Very important. Again, with animals, we're going to step back into the animal designation. They can carry human pathogens. They can spread them when they deposit their feces in the field. They're very, very hard to control. Birds are flying all over the place. Squirrels are going crazy right now. They're flying all over the place too. They're not flying, but they're flying. Even the best fence can be breached. So it's very difficult to control. And Sysma does acknowledge the difficulty of controlling these animals in nature. So we really have to do the best we can and use fencing and use different sorts of things. So, you know, in some cases, as you can read, I won't read these to you, but depending on the species, there may be some other management options. And sometimes the species that come through are just transient. They're just kind of flying through on their way to Canada or some other state. So again, we need to do whatever we can to manage the wildlife and I'm certain that wildlife experts would be able to help us in terms of what we can and cannot do. So how do you assess the risk? Think about this. Do you find wildlife species in your produce fields? Is your farm in an area with a large number of animals that come through like flocks of migrating birds or herds of deer? And what management practices can you use to limit those from contaminating both your fields as well as your water? So this is again is a big part of SISMA is controlling and well, first assessing and then managing the risk the best that you can. So some things you can do, and there's our feral pig over there. During the growing season, monitor for sea season and evidence of intrusion. Evaluate the risk and consider past observations. Right before harvest, look for fecal contamination or signs of animal activity because chances are that feces hasn't had time to compost so it still could certainly be a contamination source. So you have to decide if a portion of your crop can be safely harvested. So what can we do? Decoys, fencing, netting and so on are all some options that you can use to help deter them. Some use sound. You'll scarecrows probably still work. Noise deterrence, tactile repellents, or the relocation program. I think that's a possum down in the corner. Those live traps I guess are called. And also the little, my daughter would love this, the little inflatable things that they have a lot of times at car dealerships. Those scare animals as well. So there are a lot of different ways that you can deter wildlife. What about our domesticated animals? Well, livestock and pets may also harbor human pathogens. And even our domesticated animals sometimes are used in fields. So you have to, again, do your assessment, decide on the risk, and then decide if the animals are allowed or whether they're likely to enter your production field. So you have to keep track of them. We have three doxons in my yard and unfortunately they breached our fence and got into our garden, hurt themselves. They learned their lesson. Domesticated animals, again, decide if they're allowed in the field and then make sure if you have workers working with you that they're aware of these cross-contamination risks and also think about whether or not these production fields are rotated. So, again, lots of things to think about with both wild and domesticated animals. Working animals, the best way, as it says on the slide, to minimize risk is to not allow working animals in the field when the edible portion of the crop is present. So keep them out if it's time to harvest that lettuce or spinach or whatever you happen to be growing. Established paths have a standard operating procedure that outlines the practices to take. And then be sure, again, that anyone working with the animals understands the risks and is trained to minimize the risks and finally develops some standard operating procedures for that manure handling that's inevitable if you have animals working. And what about phytokitty cats? They should be excluded from produce fields because even though we love our pets, they certainly carry pathogens as well. If you happen to have a farm with a petting zoo, really, really important that you have hand washing sinks available and signage visitors should be instructed to leave their pets at home. So there's a lot of special precautions. And I'm not sure that a petting zoo is necessarily a good thing close to a produce pick your own field, certainly. So you do need to, you know, if that's your case, think about, you know, how to handle that if you are going to be under FISMA regulations. So just wrapping up here in the next few minutes, one thing I did want to mention, and I thought of this as I was showing you the opening slide. Think back to the complexity of the food safety system. Ice is a food. And if you're using ice for post-harvest cooling, it must be made from safe or potable water. That means that it's free from detectable E. coli. Equipment used to make and distribute ice should be cleaned and sanitized. I didn't put the slide in here, but I have an outbreak that was linked to ice that sickened 500 people at a fair in New York because runoff from a livestock feeding lot had gotten into the water supply, which also fed this fair water supply. They used the water to make ice. And anyone who had a cold beverage, or nearly everyone, at least 500 of them, became ill with E. coli.  And ice can certainly be a source of contamination. So be really cautious about your ice. Don't stack boxes containing ice produce above other boxes. Again, that could be a source of contamination. Transportation. Let's say you're taking your fresh produce to the market. You're going to have a great day. Be sure that your vehicle is also kept clean or you have things in boxes. So it is excluded from anything that might be in your pickup box or van or whatever you're hauling it in. Some farms may use vehicles for many farming purposes and also for personal use. So again, cleaning, clean liners, other barriers are very important. So part of SISMA also, again, if you're interested in any of the things that I have in my binder, I'm happy to share, there are inspection sheets for various aspects of safety. So inspect your vehicle. Make sure it's documented that it's kept clean. And again, that can be part of SISMA food safety plans. And if your vehicle happens to be refrigerated, make sure the refrigeration unit is functioning well and at the proper temperature. And I just wanted to wrap up here with a little bit on cleaning and sanitizing. Sometimes we use these two terms as if they're the same thing. And cleaning is different. Cleaning is removing dirt, soil. They're usually water and a detergent. Sanitizing is reducing or eliminating microorganisms. So sanitizing is probably even more important than cleaning because it takes down the number of bacteria and other microorganisms. So there's two steps. First you clean and then you sanitize. So this is a picture from one of our handouts that we have on our extension service website. And again, if anyone is interested, these are printable. You can use them as you want. This was a consumer handout that we adapted a few years ago. It's six steps to safer fruits and vegetables. So the first thing you do is check them. Make sure you look out for a lot of bruised or damaged produce because often the bacteria is harbored in those bruises. It doesn't matter if the vegetable or fruit is weird shaped or unusual looking. It's not a beauty contest. But if it's bruised, those bruises could harbor the contamination. Cleaning is the next one. That includes everything from washing your hands to rinsing the produce and running tap water. That's all that's recommended for home use.   Separate is to avoid cross-contamination. Again, watching out for your equipment and so on. If you're going to cook it or if you get your, that's certainly a kill step. But if you touch these fresh fruits and vegetables to raw milk, poultry, seafood, or their juices, you need to throw it away or cook it because then you can kill that bacteria that might be present. And chill within two hours. And toss if the cut produce has not been kept refrigerated within two hours of cutting, peeling, or cooking. So anyway, this handout is from the USDA and it is on our website. And it's called Six Steps to Safer Fruits and Vegetables. So again, just about done and I'm just finishing up. Produce safety begins with your commitment. So identify the safety risks on your farm or in your garden or if you're working with people as an educator. Support the implementation of food safety policies to reduce risks, provide equipment and facilities. Support effective food safety training so everyone is involved because we're all part of this big picture.  And I've undone everything that someone has done from the field to my table. So really important to realize that everyone plays a role. And then be the person that sets a good example and a consistent example on your farm. It's three o'clock and I'd like to thank you for attending this Wednesday webinar. I will take any questions for the next few minutes but certainly if you need to leave, you certainly can. But you will be getting a survey to fill out and again, I'd really appreciate if you'd take the time. Join us next time. I'm really looking forward to the interesting topics that are coming up. So thank you. So I have a question from Jean. It's hard to keep cats out of my garden. My own cats and the neighbors. They hide under the squash to grab bunnies. I've never even thought about this being an issue. Anyone have any ideas for Jeannie? Well, cats. You have to find something more interesting. Okay, vinegar. Okay. Wait until it's closed and on tail. All I can think of is fencing or netting or something more interesting for the cats to play with. Someone asked about vinegar. Vinegar rinse does not necessarily remove bacteria from produce. All that's currently recommended for removing bacteria from produce is just plenty of running water. There are some physical things that you could use like baking soda can be used to sprinkle some on as sort of a mild abrasive. But I don't know if Cliff is still on the call or not, but I know his wife was a microbiologist on campus, did some studies with vinegar. And I think one of the downsides of using vinegar on produce was actually that it left that pickled flavor. So it wasn't necessarily effective. It doesn't hurt. Lemon juice wouldn't hurt either. Any other questions for me? I'm happy for any follow-up. If you're shy and you don't want to ask me a question online, go ahead and get in touch with me. And thanks again for attending today's webinar.


re any specific policy-related change that you would like to see, or a legislative change that you would like to see this committee recommend, to support the people you represent? I do not know, Nicoleta. For example, do you think that we should be, you mentioned that the pavement parking band should we be banning A boards on high streets? For example, is there a specific legislative or policy change that each of you would like to see as recommended that would drive some of this work forward? I do not start with Nicoleta. I think that the example that you give there of having, for example, boards outside shops or cafes, or even just, for example, tables and chairs. We saw a real rise of that, particularly in the pandemic, when people were looking to eat outside and that, for many people, was brilliant. They loved it, but for so many blind and partially sighted people that was extremely challenging and dangerous, because it was just another piece of street clutter to have to navigate. Ian Sturgeon said that there is a culture of perhaps not understanding or not recognising also when somebody is blind or partially sighted. A lot of people would not think twice, for example, that they would not understand that someone is using a white cane. That is what that means. Not everybody always carries the signifier that they have sight loss or vision loss. There is just a bit of a lack of understanding generally about the needs of partially sighted people in society that impacts how we think about our town centres and how we think about how people navigate. The organisation would support legislation and moves to, if not banned, but to certainly change what the rules are around signage that is on-street and on-pavements. There are already rules around that. It is just that they are not really being at hard to. I think that a really good example of one is that outside our offices there is a big mass of roadwork sign. I thought that irony of it is that it is right outside a sight loss charity and you have a massive sign right in the middle of the pavement that is incredibly dangerous and extremely challenging for somebody with sight loss to navigate around. With a policy perspective, yes, there is a lot more work to be done there, but that needs to be coupled with a public awareness-raising campaign of what it is like to try to navigate when you have lost your sight. I think that it is not a case of unwillingness to change. I think that it is maybe just a case of naivety and not having that insight. That is probably another starting point. I want to quickly comment on some things that Colin had previously said about the design of town centres and whether we have a template that fits everybody. The rules of crux there for me is that localism will look different everywhere it is. While it would be great if we had a template that would work for everyone in every place, I think that that might be really difficult and maybe not get the best results. That is why I think that taking a really local approach and working with local people to design their own communities is the best way to go about that. That probably takes a bit more time and a bit more money and more investment, but I think that you will get better results in that sense. I am just going to say that I am very conscious of the time, convener. If Adam would say, what is the one policy change that we need to make or recommend, or is it just about making sure that the existing policies are better adhered to? Thanks for the easy question there in no time at all. That is very, very tough, and I think that the last point there about what local communities in a sense that localism is also important, because four town centres across the country look very different, so that one kind of overlaying template might not work as well. It might be more expensive, but I think that there will be certain guidelines that are helpful, and the fact that the committee has invited us here to talk about this is really welcome, because often it does not get talked about enough. Looking at planning authorities as well to realise the being in somebody else's position, how that might impact them, and not just doing things the way they have been done. We are looking at a brilliant example of road signs. It is just the type of things that will have to go up, but there are massive restrictions to people. That is simple things, easy fixes, but it is often a bit daft to have them there. One thing that probably would do it in justice is that broad guidelines would be necessary to start a position. Even if you look at accessible housing, there is not a definition of what an accessible house is yet. We are working with a range of other people to try to define something a bit sharper for Scotland to do that, but looking at accessible town centres will be tricky. However, it should not be done and done by people who are far more expert than I am. I do need to make some progress. I will bring in Jamie Harcaw-Johnson. Just one second, Jamie. We will just get your microphone on. Sorry. Good morning again to everybody. Very quickly, I am looking to put questions to Ian and to Adam. It is the same other issue. During the pandemic and post-pandemic as well, there have been real issues around things such as public toilets being closed. That is obviously limited accessibility or the availability for a number of people. However, speaking anecdotally with friends and colleagues, that has been a real concern to perhaps older people and people with disabilities and others of course as well. We have seen a lot of councils cutting back and closing looses, particularly in the Highlands and Islands, where looses have been vandalised and therefore closed. Even where there are developments and plans for new toilets or upgrades, they are not always at the highest level of accessibility. For example, they may be disabled toilets, but they are not changing places. I will go to Ian first and then maybe to Adam. How we make sure that not only are we absolutely embedding issues such as facilities into plans, but we are making sure that they are the right facilities, not just a tick box exercise. Is there more responsibility within councils? We have talked about disabled people or older people having their say, but if councils are signing off the planning for this, should there be somebody in that that makes sure that the right facilities are absolutely embedded into any development? Absolutely. I thank you very much for your question. I was going to go on and speak about toilets. You cannot have accessible town centres unless you have accessible toilets. It goes back to what Adam and Nicolette were saying about that there is not an accessibility standard for housing, but there is an accessibility standard for toilets. That has existed for years and years and years. It is laid out within the building regulations. There are a few different options and layouts for your accessible toilets, but the accessibility standard is there. What we see at Disability Equality Scotland and with the access panels is that the variation between different accessible toilets is just vast. You have got ambulant disabled toilets, which are sort of accessible and are sort of in line with the building regulations. You have got changing places toilets, which are fantastic for people with profound and multiple learning disabilities. You have got a grotty little cubicle with an emergency red cord that has been tied up, so if somebody were to fall, they would not even be able to hook that with a stick. To go back to what I was saying previously, you cannot be looking at having accessible town centres unless you look at providing accessible toilet provision. That is in line, ideally, with the BSA 300, which is the accessible guidance for the built environment, which goes above and beyond the building regulations. I must admit that I am slightly obsessed with accessible toilets, and I always try to check out what the accessible toilet is like wherever I go. I had a look when I came here and, unfortunately, the red cord was tied up. That is quite common. Often it will be the cleaner that has gone in to mop the floor and then it will tie the red cord up and forget about it. However, if somebody were to slip and fall off the toilet seat, the idea is that that cord should be touching the floor or lying on the floor so that they will be able to hook it with something. If they have a stick, they will be able to maybe reach for it. Often it is tied up along the grab rails. Often we see the grab rails on colour contrasted with the surrounding walls. It will be white grab rails on white walls. Again, that is poor for people with visual impairments. My phone is full of pictures of accessible toilets, which the variation between them is just outrageous sometimes. Our members are telling us that the current guidance around accessible toilets to be enforced and for businesses and service providers to be made aware that that does exist, that there is guidance here. Speak to your local authorities and they will support you. Building control, building regulations will support you to implement that guidance and access panels will be there to support you to maintain it as well. We do not have enough good public toilets across Scotland. It is something that people tell about a lot. Covid caused many to close, but some places such as Edinburgh City Council started reopening things on a temporary basis, which was welcome. Often when it comes to budgets at council level, public toilets are first in the shopping bloc, maybe as a negotiating position, but the first thing is that they are up for grabs to save money, but good things cost money. There is a economic benefit in making people can leave their homes and they want to leave their homes, but one of the things that I have not mentioned yet is the massive impact of loneliness and social isolation in Scotland. There is at least one older person on every street in Scotland who is lonely all or most of the time. Two on every street in Scotland who go at least half a week without seeing or hearing from anyone and 50 per cent of over 50s got lonelier because of the pandemic. Those types of policies are also like loneliness impact tests. How can people get out and have that confidence? People live with many health conditions and it is hugely embarrassing if they do not have access to public toilets. We have seen them closed in train stations and other places or have bigger fees to access them. Those are core things that we should be able to do in the 21st century when Scotland has availability. On your last point on the voice of older people, we have been campaigning for with SOPA for older people's champions as councillors and local authorities. Over the past year, before the elections, we have got up to about 22 local authorities with an older people's champion. We are now looking at that being reaffirmed in for those who did not want to have such a position as a councillor to be the person in the room to raise those things that can work with charities like us and others and any other stakeholder to get those voices heard and to be embedded in those local communities. We are really welcome members' committee support on that if they have local authorities that do not have them in their patch and they want to push for this and be happy to speak to folks about that. That is a really important thing to make sure that those voices and sometimes seldom heard or seldom listened to are enacted upon. That is great. Thank you very much, convener. It is really interesting to be with you. I was going to finally ask the panel, because the inquiry is about town centres and retail. It was to get a sense of how important, you know, is town centres a priority for them? Should it be a priority for investment and how important it is to your members? Adam, you have mentioned loneliness and isolation. Should we see town centres not just as economic drivers, but are they important to people's quality of life? Is it more important to the people that you represent than to other groups? They are absolutely core to society in some way, whether it is full of shops or full of different types of spaces. Loneliness has impacted people of all ages over the past two years. We have seen more younger people found that they are experiencing it despite being the most digitally connected generation. That personal contact was important. Town centres are hugely important for that, and it is that mixed type of space, not just to spend money but to meet people. One of the rapid removal of bank branches from our town centres across the country, which I am sure all your constituencies have felt and will sadly continue to feel, if things go the way they are, has meant that there is sometimes less impetus to be there, but that further investment goes into them. It is really important to invest in them. They are core anchors of our communities. If we are going to make things like 20-Minute Neighbourhoods a reality, they have to be part of that and more of them, but making sure that there is that right mix of services and government policy to help to direct the types of things that need to be there. Those things will cost money, but it will be the right thing to do. Those are the types of things that will require intervention and focus, but there are, of course, so many priorities just now as we are dealing with Covid. This is not just about today or tomorrow, but about decades to come and how our society changes and all the things that we know as human beings we need for our health and wellbeing. It is something that is desperately needed to support it. Thank you to all our witnesses this morning. Thank you very much for the contributions you have made to the inquiry. I will now close the public part of the meeting and move on to private session.