Well, it gives me great pleasure to introduce our next speakers, and I say speakers as plural because we have Alison and Ken Tate, who will be talking about their successes with DNA. Alison is a retired, well, semi-retired nurse, and Ken is a retired civil servant, and they're both very, very active in the North Ireland Family History Society, I'm sure many of you know them already, and they've been using DNA from the beginner's point of view for a few years now, but I think from some of the examples you'll hear from Ken and Alison, it's abundantly clear that you don't have to know what the technicalities and the ins and outs of DNA to actually derive maximum benefit, so here to talk to us about family matters, distance, no object, please welcome Ken and Alison Tate. Good morning everybody, I hope you've managed to survive the horrible weather on the way in and the flooding on the roads and so on and so forth, and we did, despite a fairly interesting journey in what we're here now. This is a wee bit different from the previous talk, and the previous talks, some of which I found a bit mind-blowing, I'm not very technically minded and have a great deal of difficulty in understanding a lot of that stuff, but we have done DNA tests, we wondered what to do with the results, and this has led us to where we are now. This also, for anybody that doesn't know, is our first time standing in front of an audience talking and using PowerPoint and all these things, so I will be using my notes, I'm afraid. It sounds a bit scripted, it's going to be a bit stilted, but it's the first time we've done it, it'll be better next year when you come, and any subsequent occasions. Growing up just outside Belfast, I was the first of my generation of children coming up into the family. I was followed a few years later by a succession of cousins, six cousins, couple of second cousins, three second cousins in fact, and then my brother, eventually six years later. On my mum's side of the family, these were all on my mum's side of the family, my dad was an only child, and other cousins on one side have built up a fairly comprehensive tree on the maternal side, so I haven't concentrated on that at all, I've just adopted their works fairly well. However, on dad's side, there wasn't anybody else to do the speed work, so that fell on me. He was the only child of my grandparents, Daniel, and there's Daniel, my grandfather and my grandmother, and my great aunt who lived with us when I was a child, she died when I was about 10. As many families, the story of the history of the family has taken pretty much for granted, until some significant event happens, like a death or an illness of an elderly member of the family, and then you start talking about it, or retirement, at which time you have time to do a bit of research. By that time, some people have gone, you've maybe lost your source material, your best source material, because it's usually word of mouth that starts these things off, isn't it? I certainly had no idea where the story would take me when I started digging, I didn't know I had any overseas family or relatives, I didn't think I had anybody on my dad's side. However, in 1980, dad received a letter out of the blue from a previously unknown cousin Fred Tate. He was based in Ontario in Canada. We knew nothing about him, nothing about his family or anybody else, up until this point. What subsequent phone calls and exchange of letters and series of visits led to the discovery of an old family Bible in Canada, with all the names, recording all the names and dates of birth and deaths and marriages of quite a few members of the family, the who we already knew, your dad had already known. During the course of Fred's investigations, he had come across contact details for dad, somehow still don't know to this day how, but this letter arrived out of the blue, and led to the following sequence of events. Briefly, Daniel was born in 1877, this is Daniel up here, oh no it's not, that's Daniel there, this is Christina and this is my father. Daniel 1877 was the son of Daniel Sturtate born in 1856, I don't have a slide for him I'm afraid, and he was married to Margaret and McCurray, he was also born in 1846 or thereabouts. Daniel was one of 14 siblings, I know you can't see the detail there but this is Daniel and the 14 siblings there, and I'm down here somewhere. Daniel Sturtate is here, and Margaret and McCurray is here, and it goes back on further but we don't know too much about them yet, or I don't anyway, I haven't done that bit of work yet. Another descendant of Daniel Sturtate's brother, Robert, is the ancestor of some of the people in this room, I'm thinking particularly of Alan and Valerie, who have come to join us from the Mithadi, and I'm very pleased to see you. Now in the early 1900s about five of my grandfather Daniel's surviving siblings emigrated to North America. Now I'm going to list them here. Robert, fully known as Robert James Blackburn, I'm going to call him RJB for simplicity because it's a mouthful. Rose, who was also known as Rosina. Margaret, who was also known as Meg. Jane, who was known as Jenny. Mary, who was known as Minnie. Now quite why I had all these additional names, I don't know, but this is Daniel again with one of his sisters Jenny, and that's the back of the photograph there which just avatates this, just confirms who they are for me because I didn't know. In 2017, we were invited by some of our Canadian cousins who by this stage we had learned the existence of to a family reunion every 10 years or so the Canadians have a family reunion and dozens if not more of them get together from all over Canada and find a point of gathering. And this year it was to be Montreal. So in 2007, Alison and I arrived in Montreal and we met up with upwards of 100 of these people. Many of them had descended from Daniel Sturtate and Margaret Ann McCurry through Robert James Blackburn. And that is Robert James Blackburn and Helena, who was a second wife. We don't know much about her yet. Two of my second cousins in Canada, Tracy and Barb, have been doing a great deal of work on the Canadian tree. They had got to know of us through the visits with Fred and so on a few years previously, so they included us in their stuff. Most of their research had been done the traditional way through Prone General Registrar's office, church records here, immigration, immigration records and web based resources. And the results of their research led to whenever we arrived at the reunion, they had produced a number of posters and things like that and Alison and Ayn and Moros, if you could help by showing us what was produced. This is a family tree they produced so it makes it real, it makes it tangible. It goes on for quite a while as you can see. As you can imagine, that's quite impressed us when we arrived. We didn't do anything about it and it was presented to us as we arrived into the room. That's not the complete tree, but it's an idea of what you get. Oh goodness knows where we are. Somewhere in there somewhere. Yes, yes, absolutely. You can, yes. Having been spurred by all that in 2017 again, they had used Ancestry DNA resources because they hadn't heard of family tree DNA quite frankly at that stage, which is the company that we have based most of our more recent research on through the North of Ireland family history project. The Ancestry DNA test is an autosomal test, that's a simple test which basically looks at 50% of your male and your female, your mother and your father's DNA and it's accurate, safe to say, up to about five generations back. There are other tests and you may be heard, anybody that was here in the previous talks would have heard, there's a mitochondrial test and there's the Y DNA test. One essentially covers the maternal line, one covers the paternal line. And if you look on the family tree DNA website, you'll see a rough explanation of what they are and what they do and where they're valuable and why they would be valuable. Resulting from their autosomal test and until then unknown cousin also living in Toronto, Brian G made contact with Brian MacG rather made contact. He is the grandson of Rose Tate, who is one of Daniel's siblings we heard about earlier on. Brian knows we're mentioning him in the top today, unfortunately because he's in Toronto he can't be here, he would have liked to have been here. He has suspended his ancestral research for the time being, he's looking after an ill family member and we're thinking of them all here at the moment. So we wouldn't have known about Brian if it hadn't been for the DNA resources and searches. He's related to Rosina, but Rosina had changed her name when she was married. So we wouldn't have had a clue looking at traditional records to look for a Brian MacG or anybody else. The name didn't exist in the family up until this point. So DNA in other words helped us to find somebody that we didn't know. And that's been continuous. That's why I'm standing here now because the traditional records have been good, but the DNA has helped and it's introduced other people and because we're out there and the published DNA data, other people are seeing us and finding us and that's basically how we came together with the people in the Mavadi. The Toronto information when we went over, we took over a lot of photographs that we had gathered up and found and being left in boxes and things in the roof space and so on and so forth from my father and his predecessors. We didn't know who most of the people were. There were no notations on any of quite a few of the photographs. Some had names on them, but they didn't mean anything to us, but a lot of the Canadian folk identified people for us. So that was very helpful and very useful. It also led to publishing some of the photographs to other DNA matches like Brian confirmed people again, anonymous people to us who he was able to identify the benefit of a DNA match. As a result of all that, I was able to go to the place in Toronto where Rose had lived in 1910. He had found me through my, Brian had found me through my connection to our cousin Barb. He was one of the organisers of the reunion. Through their DNA match, Brian actually shares 182 centimorgans with me, which is relatively close. That makes him, the prediction is I think third to fourth, or third, second to fourth cousin. Brian Barb, our Barb shares 247 centimorgans with me, which puts her in roughly the same category. Without DNA testing, we wouldn't have met Brian. We wouldn't have found out anything about that branch of the tree until quite a lot later on, probably. He found us and we found him through the published information on the, on the, on the internet and our family tree DNA tree. Now, also who found us there was a girl called Fran Francis B living in Washington state. She's the great niece of Margaret Ann McCurray, who you've previously met on the earlier slide. This is Margaret Ann McCurray, another son, Joseph, who moved to Glasgow. He was one of the, one of the cousins who stayed behind and he instead of going to Canada moved over to Glasgow. And obviously there was a bit of military service involved at some stage. I'm Margaret Ann McCurray's great-grandchild as our Brian and as our Barb. Margaret Ann McCurray features quite heavily throughout the story. And there she is. No, she's not on that. Yes, she is. Daniel Stuart Tate, married to Margaret, Margaret Ann McCurray, my grandfather Daniel Tate, my grandmother, Christine, Christina. That photograph's post post post first world war. And that is where I'm going to rest my tail just for now.  She's busy looking at my notes to try and keep me right and between the two of us we'll get it there. I missed my cue. So, right, can I have my slides up now? Yes, I have. So the first part of my talk, distant cousins and not so distant cousins. And come over to the microphone. Well done. Thank you. So, okay. I was lucky to inherit a very comprehensive family tree, which my father, Jack, had worked on with his cousin Fred Arnold in the 1980s. They researched that the public record office in Balmoral Avenue, graveyards all over Belfast and County Dime, knocked on doors, met with church ministers, examined church records and recorded stories from word of mouth. I'm reading the script, by the way. Jack had meticulously noted every detail and simply left no stone unturned at that time. By the time that I looked properly at his work, he was gone. But wisely and thankfully, he had known that someday I would, in my own time, be interested and would carry on the work that he had started. He had been able to trace his mother, Kathleen McGuyan, her family back to the mid-1600s, actually, in Donica D. County Dime. And his father, John Scott's family, John, back to 1745 in Fife, Scotland. He had highlighted mysteries and anomalies and details that he simply couldn't find. And when I took up the baton in 2016, I was able to use online records, in particular the Irish Census of 1901 and 1911. And I solved a few mysteries very easily. However, in turn, a few new mysteries came to light for me to investigate. And this photograph is some of what I inherited in terms of boxes and newspapers, family trees, photographs, documents, a monstrous amount of material. So, in short, all this led me to take a DNA test. In fact, two separate autosomal tests with two different companies. I was hoping that by putting my DNA out there, I could contact, I could connect with half cousins of mine who were also descendants of my great grandfather, Alexander Smith McGuyan, born in Donica D. County Dime 1944, and his wife, Marianne Arnold. Hold on. I will explain. When my father did his research in the 1980s, he had discovered that his grandfather had been married twice. The first time aged 18, he married in 1862. I further discovered with the help of my friends in the North of Ireland Family History Society that in fact my great grandfather had been married three times. Sadly, he had lost two young wives in quick succession due to complications following child birth. The children survived. From his first marriage, a daughter born in 1863, Maggie McGuyan, her proper name was Margaret Agnes, she was known as Maggie. And from his second marriage, a son, John Charles McGuyan, born in 1868. Alexander went on to marry a third time. I wonder did his third wife know the full story. I am his great-granddaughter from his marriage to his third wife, Marianne Arnold. I know from reading family papers, including Certificates and Wills, that together they brought up children from the first two marriages together. In 1882, his daughter, Maggie was married from the family home to Oblano Street in Belfast, where she lived with her father, his third wife, Marianne. Her half-siblings, John Charles Alexander, and Kathleen, the children to the third marriage. I was hoping to connect with the possible half-cousins of mine from the previous marriages who would be descendants of Maggie and John Charles. Unfortunately, to date, I have not found any. I think it is just the case that as of yet, no matches have come forward to test, and I remain hopeful. I believe his son from his second marriage went to the USA, and my great-grandfather had several siblings. So going back a few more generations, there is great potential for matches still to come forward, and I'll have to make the connections. So what have we got now in the Scott Arnold Tree photograph? This is a family tree that, well, you can't make head or tail of it from this distance, of course, but that's just an example. So as I said, I had inherited the comprehensive family tree on my father's side. The old photographs, the documents, the additional fabulous records, and notes for signposting. It seemed that for now it was a waiting game, and reluctantly I decided to change tack. On my mother's side, I had no records. Fabulous records, extensive photo collections, documents or written signposts, but I did have stories from my mum about her early life, her brothers and sisters, her parents, her aunts and uncles. The Cairns family lived in Belfast, and they had relations in Stfield County Down. My mother's parents, James Cairns and Debra Martin, had moved to Belfast in 1915. In order to find out more, I started with the 1901 and 1911 census. And again, friends in the North of Ireland History Society pointed me in the right direction with other online resources. I was off, and in no time back to rural Stfield in the decade before the outbreak of World War I, I discovered that my grandfather had eight siblings. That's the 1901 census, I think, or the 1911 census. Robert, Alexander, George, James, John, Samuel, Grace, Isabella and Minnie. I had heard of all but one, Alexander. I didn't know that name. I had never heard of him. Alexander would have been an uncle of my mother's. I had heard her talk with great affection about her aunts and uncles. She named them Uncle Sammy, Uncle Robert and so on, stories and tales. But never an Uncle Alexander or an Uncle Alec. I wondered why. In my generation, there were ten cousins and I knew them well. We spent a lot of time together. The name Alexander was repeated in our generation. Why, I wondered, had Alexander died? I came across a World War I casualty record for Alexander Kearns. Had Alexander died as a result of injuries? I then found a marriage for Alexander Kearns and Morgan McRatney and Belfast with children born after World War I. So perhaps the casualty theory didn't fit. What had happened to Alexander and his young family? A few months ago, I received an email from Alice Kearns and Alice knows I'm giving this talk today. Saying that she had taken a family DNA a family finder DNA test and she and I had a close DNA match. She had looked at my family tree and we were related on my maternal grandfather James Kearns's side of the family. I didn't know at first which of my grandfather's brothers she was descended from. But I imagine you have guessed Alice is in fact Alexander's granddaughter. Alice is my second cousin and we share 283 centimorgans. This was a fantastic breakthrough and for the last few months we have been exchanging regular emails exchanging photographs and hearing about each other's families. Alice explained that her grandfather Alexander Kearns, his wife Margaret and their four children had left Ireland in 1925 emigrating to Canada and they later settled in western Canada in Alberta. Alice had met and married an Australian man and is now living in Queensland, Australia. Clearly without DNA testing we would never have connected. Over the last 10 years Alice has extensively researched the Kearns family in County Down. However had not had direct contact with anyone in County Down until she emailed me. As a result of this match Alice has been able to share a photograph of our great-grandparents George Campbell Kearns and Margaret Ann Skelly. Slide 19. Alice has said recently Alice has said in an email that she is so pleased to have connected at last with relatives living in County Down and there's more. It's a long shot. This is the story so far, the next part. A few weeks ago, a few weeks ago Mark you, the first part was a few months ago, this is the next part is a few weeks ago and before I finish I'll bring you up to date with a few days ago but a few weeks ago. This is a story so far. A few weeks ago my husband Ken and I were out with my cousin Alistair Kearns and his wife Olga and Alistair and Olga both know that I'm giving this talk this morning. Having a chat over a cup of coffee in a local café. We were actually chatting about the breakthrough story that I have just recounted. Some acquaintances of Alistair and Olga came into the coffee shop, BT. And as you would expect all the usual things happened. Introductions and lighthearted chat as the friendly folk joined us briefly. Alistair explained to them that we were all interested in our family history. We're presently talking about a cousin we had recently connected with in Queensland and thankfully also added that Ken was secretary of the local branch of the family history society. My fault again. And here he is. Later exhibit A. Later. Here's one I prepared earlier. Later in the day Ken received an email from Alistair's friend saying that his mother was a Kearns and he was researching her family. He added it's a long shot but I thought I'd let you know in case it ties up with anything you know. Well, you've guessed it did. Ken replied explaining that I had recently been researching my mother's Kearns family in County Down and this is how we worked it out. My new possible cousin BT had already done a family tree DNA autosomal test and when he checked he had a match with my cousin Alistair. They matched each other third to fifth cousins. Next my new cousin BT emailed his second cousin JC in Toronto who had also tested and he discovered that we were all matched. JC's response was great news Alison and I are matched fifth to eighth cousins. So more or less within the range of the autosomal DNA test. Slide 20. John's links to Alison. No, I don't realise that. So our list is as follows. Well, I can't really move off and you'll not hear me. So it's John Alison, John's dad John, of course everybody, every generation the names are the same. John's dad John, Alison's mum Maureen, John's grandfather John, Alison's grandfather James, John's great granddad George, Alison's great grandfather George, not the same George, John's great great grandfather John, Alison's great great grandfather Robert, John's great great great grandfather Archibald, Alison's great great grandfather another James. I must try to keep up. Sorry. We reckon Archibald and James are brothers and that their father James Cairns is the common ancestor. And they're looking in the traditional records, of course, the names change. So we've got C-A-I-R-N-S we've got K-E-A-R-N-E-S and then we have a new one, K-E-R-N-O-N-S cernons, Cairns, it's just the way it's pronounced, whoever's writing it down, as you all know. The DNA matches have connected Cousins and County Down and far beyond and this is an encouraging addition to my maternal family history research. The information has also enabled us to verify an inscription recorded on a headstone in St. Phil Parish Church. The headstone was erected by an Eliza Cairns in 1864 in memory of her son Thomas who died aged 28. Now Eliza Ellen McElven married James Curnons, K-E-R-N-O-N-S in March in 1820 in Dramara Presbyterian Church. So that's another link that, as a result of the DNA test, I can confirm the story 100% back to 1800. Now, a few days ago a new match, a completely new match, popped up another probable second cousin. I haven't had a lot of time to do very much with this match yet, but what I have done is I have looked at the tree published now, this is on Ancestry, and it shows a possible line back to a John Cairns, Lowland, Scotland, 1638, there are several generations. Alice has also alluded to a similar, none of us have checked it yet, it needs checked, it could be right, but so as I said, to date I can confirm everything back to James Cairns born 1800, and I hope very soon to be able to substantiate this and verify the information back to the early 1600s. I think that's me concluded. Which leads back to me... Have I missed anything? Which leads back to me with my follow-up story now. When we came back from Toronto in 2017 we had attended an event that was being held by the North of Ireland Family History Society. At that stage we were very new members, very recent members into the society, didn't know very many of the individuals involved in it, didn't really know much about DNA or anything else, but we were obviously very much more curious and more interested in finding out a little bit more. As we come into that we have been swallowed up by the Family History Society and as you can see by the t-shirts and all the rest of it we do a lot now to help and support the volunteer for the society, because they have done so much for us and put us on the right track and so on and so forth. So it's payback time, we are getting them back now. We... When we were in Canada we had decided to do an ancestry DNA autosomal test because all the rest of the family had done it, we didn't know about Family Tree DNA. When we came back to the Family Tree or the North of Ireland Family History Society's event here they were doing a DNA information day I think. So we decided to do a test with them as well with the idea that the more exposure that we had out there, the better the chances were of attracting matches and so on. I also encouraged my Canadian cousins to transfer their data into the Family Tree DNA North of Ireland project. Very simple process in order to again increase the chances of people finding us and being found. This single act has opened up an extensive network of contacts and information that I have been able to previously found to thought was meaningless has suddenly become relevant and we've been able to link and exchange pictures link up with relatives that we didn't even know existed. Now in 2017 from my list of matches on Family Tree DNA I, or on Ancestry, I sent an email to a lady called Patricia who had a 258 cent of Morgan matched with me put her in the second to fourth bracket second to fourth cousins bracket and having looked at the tree that she had published on Ancestry I could see familiar names and familiar personalities and the tree was identical but some of the dates and some of the information were slightly different from what I had so that was why I emailed her just to see which one of us had made the mistake or what the mistake was or if we could identify the mistake. Often people adopt other people's trees because they look very similar but they're not necessarily 100% right so this is what I wanted to do I wanted to adopt her tree because she had done more work than I had but I just wanted to be sure that I wasn't pruning in mistakes or adding to her tree mistakes that I had made so that was good better than mine so we still continue the exchange of information today and photographs and so on and so forth she was able to identify herself at some of the old photographs that I had which had been annotated with the name Pat but we didn't know who Pat was there were obviously American photographs or photographs from America that had been passed down to my grandparents presumably old sepia tone pictures with this little person called Pat we now know that Pat is the same person Patricia that she was delighted to see them because she hadn't seen the photographs and I was delighted to be able to exchange them with her or let her have them then in 2018 I received an inquiry from you heard me talk earlier on about Francis Brach who had linked with Brian Francis emailed me she's based in Washington State she's a retired teacher had been born in Manitoba in Canada and had been researching her ancestry for quite some time culminating in a great book which she just published in 2019 there never to be heard from again searching for the McCurry family of my role that's been a great piece of research for all of us I have benefited greatly from it I have contributed some to it as well some information that we have given Francis so that was quite pleasing she had also made the connection with Brian and Toronto and had exchanged information with her, with him and then again in 2018 I'm hopping backwards and forwards across a couple of years here I know but it's just the way things came up in my notes I had an email from another girl called Hannah who lives in Staffordshire, Hannah Edwards she had found me in her DNA matches and ancestry DNA again quite distant this time only 50 cent of organs estimated to be between 4th and 6th cousins are thereabouts and she had found that her great-grandmother was Ellen Tate another one of the 14 siblings sometimes referred to as Helen born in 1881 in Limavadi she was a sister actually of Robert John Blackburn or Robert James Blackburn Tate yes, one of the 14 we wouldn't have known to look for Hannah because we didn't know the name Edwards at that stage Hannah and I together and that's as far as my DNA matching story goes at the moment our experiences have been very very satisfying and exciting we've made connections with many people that we previously would never have come into contact with and it's encouraged us to look further and continue to create the history of the family for those of us who follow looking around this room well I know of two definite connections already but looking around this room I'd be fairly confident that somebody else sitting here will have a DNA match with me that's close enough for us to explore and if that is the case until we meet hi cousin you're there somewhere, find me and we'll talk now we have a few observations actually and Alison's going to join me just to add to them as we go through the next 15 or 20 pages of notes here it's not that much you might have started out on your family history research using DNA motivated by curiosity to know where you've come from and who went before you your success depends a great deal on the amount of work you do and the amount of effort they put into putting information into your DNA profile on the tree whenever you look at the tree it's very frustrating to look at matches to see that they haven't put in their ancestral surnames or they haven't put in their locations where they originate from or where they think they originate from and information like that but even if they've just used a nickname or their initials you don't know whether it's a significant person somebody worth following up to and that has happened in my case a couple of times where there's been just initials on a fairly high fairly close match but is it worth following that person up you don't know who they are you don't know anything about them they haven't put a tree on you can't see anything to compare with if you've imported your DNA data from another place like into the family tree DNA database from Ancestry or any of the other companies always make sure that you also put down the profile details and the same information your names and your ancestral surnames and so on and so forth because again when it's transferred across all you get is your name you don't get that background information really and that's frustrating Ladies maiden names remember to put your maiden name on we made the mistake early on putting our married name on and we had to change it well that's why I sort of I'm Alison Scott at the head of the top because when I'm trying to make a connection it's Scott that I need to connect with initially I didn't know that did you not know that no it's also important if somebody emails you some unknown person who's found you in their matches and emails you take the time to reply to them even if it's only to say I know I can't help you I don't have any more information rather than just ignore the emails it's very disheartening whenever you're doing that bit of research and you're keen, you think you've found somebody that you might connect to and you don't get a response for a while and persevere if it doesn't happen at first maybe they're not looking at their stuff maybe they're doing other bits of having another part of their life at that time they'll come back to it in six or nine months time they'll be out in their inbox and they won't see it so send an odd reminder just don't be a nuisance but send an odd reminder and be courteous alright we're coming to skeletons so we better put that one up skeletons we all have skeletons in our cupboards or we might have self skeletons in our cupboards remember at this level, at this generation we're not responsible for what our ancestors did got up to goodness no thought to rascalishness went on if there is a surprise it's just something that happened in the past before you were about so you're not responsible you don't need to do that she's running her finger along the lines I don't want you to go off script she's frightened of me going off script she means this is why I brought you with me I know that, keep going you can't be blamed for what went on ahead of you it adds to the fascination of your family history your generation will have moved on and that part of the story is in the past and that's what it's all about it's ancestry, it's the past it's our genealogy it's there, it's part of us whether we like it or not it's there so you might as well just accept it and live with it now big brother, some people are a bit anxious about getting involved with the DNA because of the big brother thing somebody's looking over your shoulder is it the tax man if you've got a bank card, a loyalty card a mobile phone any of those things they know more about you than the DNA testing company does and nobody's interested in your DNA for genealogy for anything else, the healthcare people they have a different way of doing things and it's for the benefit of other people in the long term, so don't worry about it it's pretty well anonymized anyway it's of no use to anybody else it's of no use to anybody that's trying to clone your credit card or anything like that so that's what happens so like I said DNA has greatly enriched and ignited your family history journeys our family history journeys away beyond our wildest dreams and it's continuing to do so and the more we're exposed to all these highfalutin technical talks and all the rest of it the more knowledge we're absorbing slowly and thank goodness for people like Morris here for pointing us in the right direction keeping us in the right direction because as we all know you can only go so far with the paper records that we have and the DNA has opened up all sorts of possibilities and introduced us to all sorts of people we would never have known about so thanks for your perseverance and thanks for listening to us just before we finish I have a few wee thoughts that have occurred to me this is off script this is off script you know the way when you were at school and you were doing your maths homework and you checked your long division or you checked it by the long and complicated root well to me whenever you have got your traditional research then you've got your DNA coming in as a sort of a framework to double check your maths homework it just confirms everything and very often for instance if nobody had any research done if they were to take a DNA test it gets the ball rolling sometimes there are family members out there who are looking for you so although you may not actually have started and done any traditional research it's a point at which you can come in and get a DNA test done there's no right time just take the test test the water even if you know you have no family history already prepared the test will be an excellent starting off point and it provides a window on the past of our ancestors lives and very often their actual relationships because sometimes what has been on paper is not exactly the way things worked out doesn't tell the food story always expect the unexpected and that is the end that's actually tomorrow's shopping list so I don't know that's why thank you very much everybody well done Kevin Alston we've got time for a couple of questions actually but I thought your presentation was a beautiful demonstration of how connecting with cousins can actually help you put names on photographs exactly yes come out with stories of what actually happens to people that are missing from the family tree and whose absence or lack of additional information is just kind of nagging at you all the time some of the other there will know what happens to them and what helps solve the mystery the key word I think is collaboration if we all collaborate all the people in your matches list if we collaborate you get a lot further both of you get a lot further you both benefit absolutely I think the first relevant question from anybody here is why am I here why are you here that's the question that we all ask ourselves why are we here and I think certainly doing your family tree helps you find your roots and gives you a much greater sense of rootedness as well and to see what your ancestors have lived through and to put yourself in their shoes I think is also very fascinating because you kind of wonder if I had to live through that same experience how would I cope with it that's a very interesting point I don't want to say too much the first going back to the story about my great-grandfather who was married three times the first time he was married his wife died when she was 18 and he was 18 so how do you cope with that when you're 18 so he married again and his second wife died when he was 25 and he married a second time but he married again third time expectation life was different in those days but I think to lose a wife at age 18 to be married at age 18 and to have to deal with the sadness around that would have been very difficult in those times and that was a common occurrence that wasn't just something that would have happened occasionally sadly it would have happened a lot death was a very prominent part of life at that time absolutely you raise a very good point because of course child mortality was also very good so our ancestors had to live through the bereavement of losing children some people lose half their children some people lose a quarter of their children so to actually have 14 siblings is actually quite remarkable they didn't all survive they were just killed in a football accident when they were about 21 I think it was the first football fatality in London Derry that's another story that's part of next year's presentation any questions at all for Ken and Alison any comments? well we have one here from Brian oh yeah it's kind of troublesome no I just want to go with this chart here that you have at the front did this come from Canada? I'm interested because I see that it's all printed out on the one long sheet and I was just wondering how that was done because any printer that I have just prints out an A4 and you have to slice it all together my cousin Tracy and Toronto took it to a professional printing company some of their product range some of the genealogy companies suppliers who supply like blank family tree formats and so on and so forth offer a printing service similar to this there's one called My History I think in the UK and I think they offer a similar product or they offer a tree printing service anyway whether they can do that particular type of product I don't know but I imagine something similar the other thing I want to just say is as a member of the family history society I have seen the work that you have put in and the way you promote it for society and would just like to thank yourself for that so thank you very much and that's a perfect note to end the presentation and we'll be back in about five minutes or so with Debbie Kennett talking about the promise and limitations of what is normal DNA but for now Alison and Ken thank you very very much


The German government has announced precious artifacts that were looted during the colonial era will finally be returned to Nigeria. The first returns are planned for 2022. In a joint declaration published on the first day, Germany's Ministry of Culture, State Ministers and Museum Directors committed substantive returns of Benin bronzes, artworks made of bronze, brass and ivory that were taken by the British Army in the raid on the Kingdom of Benin in present-day Nigeria in 1897. The bronzes were subsequently distributed across the world and hundreds are currently held in German museums. Nigeria has sought their return for decades. Visit our YouTube channel and don't forget to hit the notification button so you get notified about fresh news updates.


I had recently done a video on Tangem, and it's one of those wallets that I personally believe is it's a cold storage device, and I think it's gonna usher in the next bull run. I have a ledger, I have an alipal, and I have a Tangem. But me personally, the easiest one to use, and the most fantastic so far, has been Tangem.  So the big knock that when I did this video, which you can find is a link in the description, the big knock is this. Oh Rob, you said that there's these three wallets or two wallets I can get, but what about mnemonic phrases and seed phrases because not your key's not your crypto, right? Well, guess what everybody, they just made your dreams come true because here we've got someone to answer this question. David from Tangem, welcome to the show for the first time. This is David, he is part of the team of our Tangem Head of Creation. David, thanks for coming on. Hey Rob, hey community, I'm very, very pleased to be here. Thank you for having me. Yes, sorry that intro took a little bit longer for the news and whatnot, but let's talk about Tangem real quick. So with Tangem, there is this new thing that came out and it talked about how you can do three things now because before in the video I did I showed everybody how to go through the process, how simple it is to actually set this up, but then now it looks like there's two different things you can do. One is you're able to generate a mnemonic phrase and the third thing is that you're gonna be able to import seed phrases from another wallet, which is right here. So talk to us about that real quick. Yeah, for sure, thank you very much. So maybe just a very, very small and rough introduction about Tangem. So Tangem is in 2017 founded Switzerland based company. So we're definitely in the heart of Europe and Tangem really keeps herself busy since 2017 with hardware wallets. So they started with entrance keys for really very high valuable and very high secure areas like for example, for the NASA. So they really started building those cards as entrance keys, so in a very high secure level. So maybe coming back from that, the main benefit for Tangem implementants with the latest and greatest version with the 2.0 card. So Rob and I already have one of these in our hands. They're very rare. I've been to the permission as two fair last month in Austin, Texas. And there is this very great version launched. So let me say that the most important thing in the crypto space is to listen to the community. And that is what Tangem is doing all the time. We listen to all our community members to what networks they like to have for what features and like Rob already mentioned it. We heard your hears, we heard your feelings, we heard what you asked for and seed phrases get implemented in the 2.0 version, what is right now available for pre-order and we'll get sent in two days directly out to the very first users. So I by my own brought a big package from the show to the warehouse in Utah with 200 cards in there. So with 200 sets of cards. So I know physically they're there and you guys in the United States will be probably the very first ones who get one. Yeah, and that's a really big step for us. So maybe coming back a little bit to the old version. The 1.0, you probably know that Rob already presented that in the video. So we as Tangem do not believe that, let me say seed phrases, is that what us helps to get the mass adoption rolling in the blockchain or in the crypto space. Won't you agree? Well, like this is what I talked about in the video is I said, I don't think that a lot of people, especially the new ones, this is the problem last cycle, was that we had an analyzer and we had a lot of different cold storage devices but they're very clunky to use. And a lot of people just said, you know, I hear this thing called not your keys, not your crypto. So I mean, yeah, I get it, but I'm just gonna leave it on Celsius. I'm gonna leave it on Voyager. I'm gonna leave it on FTX. I'm gonna leave it on Block 5 because I just don't really get it. I don't wanna be responsible for this thing. I'm gonna lose it. Well, now we know how much it is moving forward. When I got in, I heard about Mt. Gox and I heard about not your keys, not your crypto. As time goes on, we just, we hear it, but it doesn't process on our brain. So the same thing, and everybody's like, well, I'm just gonna tell my people that they have to take it off. It was the same thing with me. The same thing is gonna keep repeating. People are gonna leave it on these exchanges because these exchanges are gonna come up with some, whatever BS that they're gonna talk about and say, we just just totally, this is totally fine. We're not gonna go unsolve it. We need to do this. I think the best way to do this is to use if people are so inclined to, tangent. And now you have the option to extract your private keys and have it in a mnemonic phrase. Correct, correct. And that's exactly the point. I mean, everybody who came to the situation where he does not have had access to his funds because of whatever happens. Government sued an exchange, and exchange chains get hacked or get bankrupt or whatever happens. I mean, it's an unlikely feeling. If you know, you got thousands of dollars or maybe only $500 on your exchange and you couldn't get access to it. I have had the same situation a year ago and I can tell you I never wish that to somebody else. So like you said, I also own a ledger and I can tell you to set that up the very first time was totally nightmare for me. Absolutely inexperienced, no idea. It took me days, I really saved days. And this is what really brings tangent to the next level. I, you and I have had chatted a little bit in the beginning, I got four daughters in the age between eight and 30. And I can tell you, all of them have set their own tangent card up by their own without any help from me.  They're gonna give me 50 bucks and say, daddy put me some polygon magnetic on it because a lot of Starbucks or just put me some XRP on it because we think that, by the way, this is Gary G. We think that Gary G will lose it in the next time. So, you know, anyway, but so it's simple. It's simple, it's easy, it's absolutely good however. And like I said, you can have everything that you need everywhere on the world with you as long as you got your cell phone and your tangent card. And it's definitely safe. It's really, really safe. Yeah, that's the thing. But there's some, I mean, we know it's safe, but there are some issues with some functionality. We talked about this, David, which was, well, not what the Costco run, but Blue Blowfish says, I wish the near on the tangent of the native token support just BNB chain now. When we were talking about the actual app that when we downloaded, you had said that there's gonna be some upgrades coming in October. What's going on with that? So here's the good thing. So tangent is working very, very hardly on that. So first of all, the most important thing comes night mode. So you would have definitely a good night mode. I'm just kidding. That's really one of the not needed things. But anyway, right now, if you're gonna set up for example, an Ethereum wallet address, you can only have one wallet address per set of cards. So with your three cards, you can only have one Ethereum wallet address. With the October update comes in the next days, you definitely are capable to have multiple wallet addresses with one of your cards. We're also working very hard on getting additional chains on there. So in case one of you guys gonna have a wish and say, hey, you know what, my token, my asset, my coin is not on tangent right now available, shoot a mail to the team directly and they will implement it. You will also have the opportunity to hide your balance. So like, for example, he knows it from Crongeko, you can click to the I and he would blur it out. And you can also do that very simple by just swapping, just flipping your phone. It's very simple. We got tons of tons of quality of life improvements on that app. And I can tell you probably you know that and I know Robert also announced that we have one inch connected to the app. So what you can do is you can definitely swap everything with EVM compactable directly on tangent, but by the end of the year, we were definitely gonna have crush chain swap available. So what you can do, you can swap your Bitcoin to XRP, you can swap your MATIC to ADA. You can really do everything from cross, from chain to chain with the big benefit of having everything in your app, everything underneath your control and everything to the normal common gas fees. Yes, exactly. So well said. Unfortunately, David, you're a little bit frozen right now. That's okay, we can still hear you. So now it's not your fault. It's how the internet goes. But so of course, if you could relay this back, it'd be great for the third chain support and of course near native support for tangent that would be fantastic. And then Mesa asked the question, what's tangent? Which is a good question. Now that we're talking about it, we should probably, I should probably have preface it. This is a cold storage device. And we can see, here's the website. There's a link in the description. And just so everybody knows, I reached out to Tangem first. And I said, I'm having a problem with the ledger because no one really knows what's going on with this new upgrade, this new update. I don't know what's happening. I want to diversify. So I reached out to Tangem. I reached out to Elipal. I bought the Tangem. It took me five weeks to get because of all the different things. Elipal actually sent to me. I did a review on that one. But Tangem themselves haven't paid me anything. This is not a paid, paid sponsorship because if it was that I have to check it off in the YouTube thing. However, in the links in the description, it is an affiliate link. So if you do click that, some of the proceeds will go back to me. If you cannot stand doing that, that's okay.  There's the rub. So here's the Tangem wallet. So the Tangem wallet, first of all, Nano Ledger is going to run you depending on if you did. There's two different versions of it. I have a Nano X and the other ones with the buttons. Nano X, I think is like, let's just see. Why do I ask this question? Nano Ledger, let's do it in shopping. Hardware wallet. Take it up to the expenses. Yeah, so the Ledger stacks is 279. The Nano X, which is what I got, 149. Ledger Nano S plus is 79. So Tangem here, it starts at 43 bucks. Let's see. And it's just a card. You don't have to write down mnemonic phrases if you don't want to, because everything, the private keys are within the card itself. Watch the deep dive video, explain how this all works. No, they don't come pre-shipped with your private keys already set up. You have to set them up at your home. And it isn't actually with an app, there's questions that you're gonna have is like, what if I lose my phone? What if I lose these three cards? Watch the deep dive video, because it's too much to go over here. Zero out of 850,000 cards have been hacked since 2018. They've got a ton of different cryptos on there. How many cryptos do you guys have now, David? We have right now more than 38 main lines. So layer ones, and with that thousands of thousands layer twos. So Rob, let me add something to that. So you explained a little bit about the durability and the safety, but I can tell you something. This card is not only very safe, it's also horribly durable.  The one in the middle is from a drill bit. And just imagine what that card still is doing. It's still working. I ran it over with a forklift, I burned it with a torch. I shot on it, I froze it. I can tell you, and it's still working. See? Well, it's pretty good. Well, perfect. So as far as like durability, that's pretty good. But it's also a 25 year guarantee, I remember. Yeah, absolutely. No battery to it. And I can tell you like Rob already told, so on the web page it is, it states that we have produced more than 850,000 cards. Right now we're a little bit more than a million. And we have never had one hack or one failed of that card.  And you saw that they're all totally melted from a fire. One of them was not anymore available, but the other two, they were still working. So that's a good thing. Rob, what do you think? Do we want to announce something? Very great. I had sent you something, maybe you can pull it up in on telegram. So it's a very, very, very first ones for you guys. Tendrum is launching in November a new product that called the Ring. So yes, you will hear it. We have a new product that is most likely the same, what is the card? And you can have it on your finger, like a ring. And that is definitely amazing. Yeah, let me see if I can pull this up. So let's see. So some people of you maybe knows the order ring or just an NFC ring or let me say a pay ring where you can upload your credit card informations. But what Tendrum did here in the past three months, they created together with one of our factories, the new version of the card to make it more comfortable. I can tell you right now, when I got my three cards, I have one with me all the time in my wallet. Another one is with my wife. So whenever she needs to do something and the third one is in a bank vault. So every time I have everywhere in the world access to my funds, what's very, very useful. But with the ring, you can definitely, yeah, that's me on the commission list with the ring. You can definitely go ahead and tap your transactions, sign your transactions directly once you got it on your hand. So you don't need to pull out your wallet, take a look for your cards. You got it all the time with you. And that's, I can tell you, that is a game changer. I'm looking so much forward.  It was not my ring, it was from the CTO because he stressed tested it over a couple of days. Yeah. This is amazing. And you have to definitely, you have to pull up the ring to scan it to your phone. You couldn't do it once the ring is on your hand. So that won't work. But it's definitely a very, very cool feature. Okay, so here's the question. And I know everybody's thinking about, or some people are thinking about this. Okay, so someone steals your ring. You're like, give me a ring. So they have your ring, they take off with it like, first of all, let's say that out of the 99% people that don't know what it is, let's just exclude them, right? Let's say there's a 1% person who knows what this ring is and what it does. So they know what it is and what it does. Can they just download the app and then you start stealing all your crypto? No, that's a great thing. The processor, the microchip, it's a microprocessor. It's not an NFC chip. The microprocessor on the card and also on the ring are both the same. This microprocessor is an EAL6 plus rated certified processor from Samsung, the patented one. If you got a rainy night, you can definitely download the patent and read through the 28 pages. It's very, very exciting to read that. Anyway, so it's definitely not capable to hack a tangent that on their website video with a flipper device where someone tried to hack it and it's definitely not possible. By the way, we're planning to do some kind of a good advertising. Probably we're gonna put a Bitcoin on one of the cards and let the community decide what hacker will have it if he can get the one Bitcoin it says. But I mean, so sure we are that our card is secure and safe. But I make the point. So downloading the app is not possible. Getting to the funds is also not possible. And even with just the ring, you couldn't do anything. That's the beauty about that. The same procedure if you're gonna lose one of your cards without your private password, your smartphone, and your biometric data. You couldn't get access with one card to anything. That's the beauty about that. That's the beauty. To stage level. So then the last thing would be like, well, how much is this Rob? Because it sounds expensive and we'll answer that for you right now. So again, ledgers, Stax 279, 149, 79. So you got two options. So for the tangent, the classic wallet, again, links in the description, the promo code is Dan. You don't have to use it, but you can. The classic wallet, the three-card set is, well, with the 10% off, it's 50 bucks. The two-card set is 39. Watch the deep dive video. I'll explain the difference and why I screwed up by getting the two-card set. Now the new tangent wallet, the one where you can actually download the mnemonic phrases, that is a little more expensive. The three-card set is $62.91. The two-card set's only 49 bucks. Two-card set's only 49 bucks. So that's all we have. That's what it is. David, anything else? I mean, it's a great product. I came most likely like almost everybody of you very, very scared to that project and to that product by its own. I mean, it's a card. It doesn't look safe, you know? I mean, you really get used to your ledger with all the knobs on, with the display and everything else, but I can tell you what is the definition of a hardware wallet? The definition of a hardware wallet is being offline from the internet. And ladies and gentlemen, what is more offline than this card? If you find something, I'm curious to hear it. I'm curious too. Hey, here's a good question. I didn't think of what it's. Danny says, so if they rob your phone and your ring, they get access to everything. But I gotta, but tell, let me, let me see if I'm straight on this one. Even if they get the card or the ring and your phone, which has the app, to get into the app, they need face ID or they need your private pin. Yeah, your private pin, right? Correct. I mean, even so, let's say in the event, they get the ring and your phone or a card and your phone without your biometrics or the access code to your phone, nobody can get access to it. Even if you say in the app, I do not allow you to use my biometrics, then the app says, okay, you have to tap the card every time to get access to view your funds. And without the card, without signing the transaction, tapping it to your phone, you couldn't sign a transaction. That's a beauty. So the app will not let you make anything, send any funds, couple anything by Wallet Connect. So you also got the access to the complete DeFi world by Wallet Connect. So you can stake directly on the app to your asset, what you want to do. You can bridge something, you can connect to one inch or pancake swap. So you can really do everything. That's a beauty about that. Hey, Dave, say that again. You said, you talked about you could do staking. Is that available right now, or is that coming out soon? Cause I didn't think it was available yet. The stake. So what you can do is you can stake your assets by connecting with Wallet Connect directly to third party. And by the end of this year, latest at beginning of next year, we will also have the staking directly on the Tangem app. So you can directly stake in the app without leaving your assets, or let me say connect by Wallet Connect. That's cool. So that's an update. I'm not sure if it's implemented in the October update, I guess it could be, but I would say not later than this year. Got, so okay, perfect. So thank you for that one. Here's another question. Is it available in the UK? I'm pretty sure it is, but just to be sure. It's available worldwide. We got warehouses in every country. We got suppliers in every country. You can also buy it from Amazon if you don't trust the official website link directly from Amazon, but then you don't get the 10%. I really highly recommend you either way.  Yeah, I'm going to over really on the Amazon one. Do not buy anything from Amazon or from eBay, because we've heard about these things where people like, oh, I'm a registered user, right? And they sell you these things, but they have the private keys already built in. This happened with ledgers before. People would buy it, they would ship them the ledgers and they would put their crypto on it. I'm like, oh, it's already set up. And then of course, a day later it'll already be gone and they would do it. Now, see, this is the problem with Tangem. I personally liked him when he couldn't do the mnemonic phrases, but now they offer that which is fine because crypto, geez, they're going to do what they want to do and that's cool. I might even actually get one just for the backups. But now you have that extra layer of an issue. However, I see the case on both sides. So, okay. Here's the great thing.  So, like we said, we as Tangem do not recommend using seed phrases because there are tons of better ways. I don't know if you guys recognize the guy last year in April in Texas, who gets stopped by a policeman who pulled up his seed phrases and the seed phrases are next day on the internet because he's- Oh yeah, I heard about that.  And these things happen. So, that's the big thing. That's the big thing. I've lost 20,000 Cardano because when it was the test net, I had the deadless wallet and everybody knows this on the show. I lost 20,000 because I wrote it down on a piece of paper. It's somewhere and it's gone. So, it's one of those things. However, I think this is a good in between. And of course, you watching this at home, you can do whatever you want to do.  I got Evan's mnemonic phrase. I'm set with it. I'm gonna etch it and steal. Cool. You do that.  On the other way, I'm just going to back them up on these three cards. We'll do it that way. This is the great thing about Tangeman, giving those people the option. But the big thing is you're taking it off your centralized exchanges. You're taking it off these centralized places and you're sticking into something that you have control of. And I think that I think is the big factor. Absolutely. Fully agree. Yes. I fully agree. Oh, so, okay. Here's another question that I've had. Please, I love the questions. I love the challenge. Go ahead. So like, why did the deep dive video? And then I get a lot of questions. People like, hey, Rob, why is this being shipped from Hong Kong? Hey, why is it that I'm getting a receipt from Singapore? Where the camera was? I know you guys are based in Switzerland? Or Sweden? I always get those. Switzerland. Thank you. Now you've got factories or you've got places or warehouse all over the world. But the cards themselves, are they manufactured in Hong Kong? Is that what it is? Yes, sir. That's exactly how it is. And I can tell you, take a look where Visa and MasterCard builds their cards and it's the same place. So I mean, most likely it isn't possible to really do that inside in the United States or let me say Germany or maybe in Switzerland directly because I mean, nobody will pay then $200 for a card. I can tell you that that's that's for fact. They have the infrastructure. We have a very hard quality control plan. We have a robot that is spending a whole time having the card and the phone. I can tell you after half a million transactions, the phone died. It died, it really died. Not the better died, the phone died but the card still is working. So that's only one of our quality control plans. We're really doing an ongoing thing because we stand with this product very, very strongly there and would like to give the community, let me say even every crypto user a very good product for a very reasonable price. I got it. Yeah, good point. I will tell you, before we get to this next question, it's October. We're coming up pretty soon to Halloween as we can see right there with that fantastic skeleton.  I gave them a little bit of Bitcoin. This is back in the end of 2017. I don't know if they still have it. I think they still do have it but I know they never used it. I know they never looked at it but I'm thinking to myself right now, like if you had these cards and you were giving these out like, hey, you wanna see how easy crypto is, watch this. You give them a card with like 20 bucks of whatever, 50 bucks of whatever or you say, watch, I'm gonna send you some funds right now. This is all crypto and how easy it is. Now you control it. You don't have to worry about the banks ripping you off or becoming insolvent. You don't have to worry about time constraints. You don't have to worry about any kind of like lag. Watch this and then that's it. And then you could help all of us. So I'm just saying, might be a good stocking stopper. This is so fantastic. I mean, you're talking exactly about the main point. Even if you're absolutely unskilled. I had grabbed one of the 10 cards, got to my Walmart neighborhood here in North Carolina next to Charlotte and grabbed a stranger and told him, hey, buddy, if you can set it up in four minutes or less, I give you 50 bucks in Bitcoin. Take a look to the tangent website.  I mean, I don't like that, but it was a great experiment. And he did it in three and a half minutes.  So it's actually on the tangent website, on the tangent YouTube channel. So that's a nice thing. And maybe coming back to another point that you mentioned with giving that to one of your loved ones, to your family friend, to your family, to your friends or whatever, what you can do directly in the tangent app. Let me show that to you. It is so awesome. I like to talk about that. So let's hop to Bitcoin. So I got my Bitcoin here right now. So what you can do, you can go to Actions and what I can do, I can go to Sell. So what the app is directly empowering me is using your third party, like for example, right now, Mercury. So I can, I'm sorry, it's in German. No, no, no, Dave, I can't see your screen yet. Oh, I'm sorry. You can definitely buy and sell cryptos directly with your fiat money by third party directly on the app. So we even don't need an exchange. You don't need anything. So that's a beauty about that. Let me rewind that.  Yeah, it's pretty simple. I hope you can see my screen right now. So I think the people have seen it. So- Hold on, let me do this. This is easier. Okay. So you can definitely- I'm gonna get you out of here for a second. You can see your screen. You can go to actions and then you can go to sell. And then the third, I'm sorry, my camera is fixed. So and then you can select everything what you want, how much bit can you wanna sell and you can sell it by third party. And what is more beautiful than that? You don't need to have anybody, anything leave your wallet and need to deal with an exchange or whatever, whatever. So it's so convenient, I can tell you. Yeah, before we go, we get onto some other Q and A for everybody else. How much is the ring? Do we know yet or is that gonna come out next year? I, it would be definitely more high expensive. So it will definitely come out this year. It is ready for the Christmas, Christmas event for the Christmas market. You will definitely gonna get a set of test rings to fit your size.  I have already seen the box. It's very high class. It's a very high value present. So, I mean, if you got one of your loved ones, you wanna make a good present to your husband or to your wife, what's a little bit into crypto? I can tell you, it's very nice. It's a little bit high pricey. I don't know if I can talk too much of the pricing, but it will be a little bit higher. I'm not gonna get it. I'm just gonna tell you right now. It seems cool and awesome. I just won't buy it, but somebody else will buy it. And that's not me. But, Danny's got a question. What are the fees? We talked about this because on ledger, if you're doing any kind of like buys and swaps, they use moon pay. I wanna say it's 5% correctly in the comments, but as far as like fees to swap, what are we talking about here? It's the, so for example, if you're gonna swap a thousand Ethereum to, I don't know. That sounds like some money, yeah. So you definitely have the same fees like you're gonna have on the regular Ethereum network to the same time. With the update in October, you will also be capable to adjust the Y by your own. And you also have the possibility right now to set three fees options, low, medium, high. So you definitely do not have any additional upcharge. So it's kind of like MetaMask. That's the charges, okay. And that's not dictated by you guys, that's of course by the Ethereum Foundation. Okay, Jason says, what happens if Tandem goes out of business? I'm not sure what happened. When we lose access. That's a very good question. The software on the app is open source. In the event that Tandem shut down tomorrow, you can download the software on GitHub. You can get access to the software and you can investigate it. This is also the great thing. I mean, did you ever have the chance to investigate into the software of Ledger? What are you gonna do if someone from Ledger gonna put a backdoor in there? Nobody can check that except Ledger. So, but here's the point. Tandem is very open. Tandem is absolutely open-minded and gives everybody in the community the chance to check the software by their own, see backdoors, et cetera. So, but like I said, if Tandem gonna shuts down, you can run the software by your own. Yeah, okay. And actually, if you guys watch the deep dive link in the description, I go over all those things about how this all works and if everything shuts down. And it was a great blog post. It was about the C-fi aliens coming down to blast and of course it wipes out everything. It was tongue-in-cheek, it was pretty good. What about this one? Fige says, can I hook up to MetaMask? Yes, no, no, sorry. You couldn't hook up to MetaMask. That's not implemented right now. It could probably happen, but we're not doing that right now. Okay. And then did we talk about the debit card part? Not now. So maybe also in another announcement, Tandem is definitely implementing by the beginning of next year, a directly implementation of FISA. So what you can do in the future, first thing next year, hopefully, you can pay your groceries, your coffee, your car bill, whatever, your gas directly with your Tandem card. That's the plan for the next year. And there's no third party involved that gonna swap your, let's say Ethereum to US dollar and then gonna pay the gas station. No, it's directly done with Ethereum. That's what we need for mass adoption. That's what we need. I'd love to see that, but we've got time. Okay, so David, thanks for stopping by. If you wanna hang out, we're just gonna, everybody, if you guys got questions about Tandem, I think we answered most of them, but if you got questions about crypto market or what's happening or something else, put those in the comment section, we'll stick around for another 10 minutes or so, maybe 15, depends on how spicy these questions get. And we'll go from there. David, again, thanks for stopping by. I didn't know you guys were doing all that stuff. Thank you very much. And if you got a second round, just feel free to invite me. I'm more than happy to answer every question that, like I said, I love to get challenged. We had a lot of things to do. And I know Skepsis is very big, but do me a favor, be open-minded and think about what could be the best outcome for you, for your level of convenience and for your security. Yeah, and I gotta tell you like, I don't, like I diversify the things that I invest into. So I figured why don't I diversify into my cold store devices? Why not? So I'm like, and then like, if now if tangent cost me 500 bucks per card, I would probably not do it. I'll just be honest with you. Cause I'm like, I don't know if I want to diversify that much, but it's not how much you make. It's how much you keep. And thankfully it's relatively inexpensive. It's not like $200, $150. It's 43 bucks or $53 or however much it is. And of course she gives a bit, I don't know. All right. So blue, blue flow fish says, tangent is nice, got the three pack. In the deep dive video, you'll see me talk about it. I screwed up and got the two pack. I don't know if I just fat fingered it. I just got the wrong one. I should get the three pack and I tell you why. David Allen's here. Man, we know the bill runs back of David Rob long time. I'll say, yeah man, it's been months by hopefully your portfolio is down too much and things are going well. And then Mullet says, no, end of the dollar in the 10 year rate. Is the 10 year rates going up? Let's take a look. So, David, you're in North Carolina? Yes sir. I'm Northwestern of Charlotte, roughly an hour and a half in the good, nice and easy south. Let me ask you something. How are the housing prices over there? Honestly, I have the luxury situation that we rented something, but what I recognize, it goes down slowly. That's very nice. Let's see. I gotta tell you in Texas, especially like in Austin, things are going up a lot. Yeah. Yeah, I've been to Austin a couple of weeks ago to do the permissionless. I mean, it's wild there. It's really wild there. It's a nice area. Yes. Let's see. Oh, here we go. Let me share my screen. So, treasury yield curves. Man, the 10 years at 4.69, 20 years at five. Hold on. Yeah, October 2nd. Holy smokes. I gotta tell you, if you get an annual yield of the S&P 500, and it's like between seven and nine percent with risk, why wouldn't you just do treasuries? A three month is 5.62, 5.6, 5.58, 5.4. And 10 years at 4.69. This is not what the yield should look like. And usually when they invert like this, we're looking towards a recession. This is it over time. But usually what you'll see is something like this. A one month is nothing. This is what savings account has been. And then of course, the longer that you go, of course, the longer you lock it up, the more it actually is. But we can just see that over time, things are going down. So we'll see if the recession comes or not. Interesting. It is. Let's see. Hey, Dave, I'm gonna ask you for a favor. Can you go back to the guys and ask them if we can do a giveaway? Not with the ring, but just with some regular cards. I can tell you, we also have a very nice Shiba bullet. So that's one of the one for my very small one. So that's the special Shiba design. And we also did a Casper brand. So Casper with K, the layer one proof of work consents mechanism. Probably everybody knows Casper. That's right now on the way. And I'm sure we can do something in the future. Very, very sure. So I mean, again, it's a pleasure to work with you and to get this great question from your community. And I'm open on that. Yeah, okay. Yeah, ask him that'd be great. Cause people love free. I don't know if you guys would like that. I would probably go for that. Danny says, I would never bring the card of the ring with me at all times. Soon Robbers will figure out these things and we'll take you apart and make you send crypto. Yeah, I gotta tell you like, it would make sense. If I'm gonna, well, here's the beauty of it all, right? You can have multiple accounts within tangent. So you can have a set card of three, which could be like your burner account. Which would be like up to like $1,000. And then maybe you can have a separate account. See, there we go. You have one, two, three, set five? Yeah, it's me, my wife and me and my girls.  I also have two additional hardware wallets. This is only the fourth of my crypto assets, what I got on my main wallet. Perfect. Yeah, so you could have one set like your card to go buy your Starbucks or little gifts here and there or food. The other one could hold like up to 10,000. The third one could hold up to whatever David's got like $10 million or whatever it is. And then that will be it and you'd be fine. Let's see. Yeah. Like you said, diversifying that is crucial. I mean, even if one set get robbed or one card get robbed, it doesn't matter. It really doesn't matter. As long as, and this is some kind of a safety advice from my side, let's assume you guys are gonna get the set of three cards. Make sure that you never, ever keep two cards with you because with two cards, you're capable to reset your private password. With the new 2.0 version within the app, you have the ability to kill the opportunity to reset a password for cards. Let's say you need to travel. You need to move. I'm gonna move in a year back to Germany. Finally from the States. Unfortunately, I love it here. So for that move, I definitely know that I deactivate the restoring function of my password for this card and this card. So I can keep all three with me in my pocket and do not have the fear that I lose it or someone robs it from me. You can restore my password. That's the good thing. So yeah. No, it's a real good thing. Or just keep the one that has like up to $1,000 on there and that's it. And then when the robbers get it, everybody's a winner, right?  Okay, how about this one? I don't know if you follow this Bitcoin dominance theory. I've got this wacky guy that's on the show sometimes, his name's Ben. He's always talking about it. Bitcoin dominance, it's pretty much, let me show you. Cause I'm always talking and I should just show. And I always mess this up. I read you that a little bit over the last years, last days and you can definitely see. So the Bitcoin dominance is falling and the outcomes is rising up a little bit. I mean, that looks very weird in the last days. Don't let that, I don't want to let you say that. But yeah, so like, let's see. So Bitcoin, we're gonna include some stable coins cause they're there. Let's blow this up. So let's see. So, I hope everybody can see this. So this is, cause the theory is and it's been rightly so for quite some time. Actually, let me reset the zoom. So this is in red, this is the Bitcoin dominance. In 2015, that's, you know, going all the way back, Bitcoin dominance was 91% cause that's all it really was in 2013. Then as, of course, we came into the altcoins which is in 2017 with the ICOs. It dropped precipitously because of all the altcoins that were being made. And of course, everybody wanted to get rich. This is in 8,017 and it dropped to one of the low points, 37% in June of 2017. And of course, it rocked back up. And once we get into some of these bearish markets, the dominance starts to pick back up because people are scared. And they think, okay, these altcoins were trash which most of them were, let's be honest. And then it picks up. And then we go back and forth, we whipsaw. People get scared, 2019 it does this. Then we go into like 2021 where we have more of this craziness which I think we all kind of love deep down. And it drops off a cliff again cause people put it into altcoins. And then we see it come back and forth. And now we're coming up, how are we doing now? Well, as far as third of October, which would be today, we're at 49.31%. And we're coming, let's see. It was at 49.4, not 49.3, but it did pick up to over 50% in June. So what do you think, Dave? Makes sense or kind of like, I don't know. I don't know. I mean, just look at the economy. Just look at what happens in the world outside there. I mean, I love chat patterns, I love the history but could we really compare it every time from time to time?  So it's not the same pattern. I love to see a pattern, but I mean, it's just looking to the glass ball, isn't it? It is. And this is what I love to do myself. So don't let Ben hear you say that. All right, so here's another good one. And this does make sense. Is tangent expecting a huge increase to the cold storage wallets as we close to the Bitcoin halving next year? And how are you guys dealing with that? Cause I assume it's gonna be more demand. So long story short, the very first interesting fact about that is we had reached a very high demand on getting our tangent wallets up very hard because ledger did a very good thing for us. So the programmer who implemented this seed phrase recovery came also at the Austin, Texas a pair to us and ask, hey, would you like us to do that? We said no, but we would like to pay you that you did it for ledger. But I mean, that was funny either way. So long story short, the tangent's main sentence, main topic is, where the bridge between it being true and the blockchain period. So, and that is what we like to do. And for sure, I mean, the biggest thing in the blockchain and the crypto industry is bring the people up to speed, help them understand what a self-custodial, how easy it is, et cetera. And with having that big barrier away from, I need to keep myself busy at least for a day to understand what I'm doing with the treasurer or ledger or Alipal and you're capable to set up within three or five minutes your own hardware wallet. Are we definitely gonna see that as a very big fact and a very good point to increase the number of hardware wallets, but also help the people help their self because that is what we do. We educate people. If you guys haven't done that so far, take a look to our Tangerine Telegram channel also to the other social media channels. What Tangerine is doing very hardly, we're doing educational content. Like also, Rob is doing educate the people and help them understand what is crucial, why to do it and why self-custodial is so important. Perfect. And what I'll do is, guys, I'm gonna drop this in the comments section. This is the Tangem YouTube site. And then also I will put this as, for you who are watching the replay, I'll put this right here on the YouTube. And also, yeah, that's a little work, Tangem YouTube. And that's it. Okay, well, David, we're coming up on an hour here. We shouldn't believe that. So ladies and gentlemen, thanks for stopping by, but I gotta get out of here. David's gotta get back to his family. It's an hour ahead over there. No problem. Yes, so again, thank you for stopping by. I appreciate it. Everybody, if you liked today's video, go to thumbs up, consider subscribing. I mean, we talk about this time sensitive, but that is it for today. So thanks so much everybody and we'll see you on the next one. Adios. Thank you very much. Bye-bye. Bye. There we go.