Good morning. Good afternoon. Good evening. Wherever you're handling from welcome to another edition of the little up hour here on open shift TV I am Chris short executive producer of open shift TV. I speak so quick sometimes that I don't even realize what words I'm saying Because I'm so used to this Langdon. How you doing this morning, buddy? Yes Well, I'm I'm now a little concerned because I feel like I've been diminished in your eyes because I'm not apparently illustrious today So oh, I'm so sorry the illustrious Langdon white everybody. Thank you. Thank you And and you brought on a guest. I know. Yeah, that's what I'm super excited about And I also speak very quickly. I normally know what I'm saying But I don't have the word wicked in basically every sentence. I feel like not a proper Bostonian So, you know, there's that So Brent Pouty is here with us today to talk about kind of what's new in podman v3 and I I have applied the title Architect to him for the project, but I completely made that up. So we'll also ask him what his actual title is on the on the project and Well, we'll go through a bunch of different stuff Brent, do you want to give a quick introduction yourself and then we'll kind of introduce the show a little more? Sure Brent Pouty. I'm on the containers of runtime team and and At Red Hat and our primary focus is on things like podman build a scopio containers image and storage And and other associated libraries. I am actually the podman architect and And I'm located in Minnesota In this out in the sticks out in the sticks. Okay, you're full Chris is in Michigan. So, you know, it's all it's all flyover as far as oh, thanks Thanks, buddy.   Have I been to Michigan? I think I have been to Michigan. Oh, no, I'm sorry I've definitely been to Detroit and Michigan. I was gonna say Minnesota I think I've been to Minnesota But I'm trying to hit that all 50 states one of these days But mostly it doesn't count as far as I'm concerned If all you do is go to the airport on your way to somewhere else, right? You have to like get out and like go places as well All right, so let me share our like truly amazing slides As we do each time to try to just kind of introduce the show We You know, this is the level up hour if you are lost. That's what we're doing here today and this show is about Trying to figure out why containers are interesting and how they might be interesting to you Especially as like a rel admin say and you want to you you hear all this buzz or whatever around containers You know, you got to learn about them someday So that's what we're here to talk about is like a Help you to learn about containers But more importantly show you how awesome they are for your kind of like every day even as a like a rel admin job Right, you don't need to be You know some sort of cloud native software developer or an open shift admin or any of those things To really appreciate why containers are super useful just in general And so that kind of leads us into things like tools like pod man, which is why we're talking about v3 today So about the show you can find us on Twitter at Langdon with a one and Chris short all one word and two s's as we discussed last time and You can also find us in relatively active discussion lately in our discord Where you can come in and ask questions about the various shows or about you know, the technologies used on the shows and Sometimes we know the answer and sometimes we corral other people to join us to help you with the answer So please come and join us there and I assume you're doing the magic discord button Stand by I'm putting our Twitter handles in and then I will be okay. All right discord button awesome And then as I always do I like to just kind of say, okay, if you want to know more about the level up program Which is kind of like a way like it's a way red hat is trying to help our customers Excuse me kind of level up into containers and in open shift in general And so there's a bunch of like free training and free licensing and stuff like that So check out the website red hat slash level up our and then today we have pod man With Brent Boudie and then last episode which was not last week, right? It was week before Was episode 28 and you can find the show notes at that link and I will drop that link into the chat Once I find the window that has it and Then I will drop it in there, but so let's go ahead and get started because nobody likes slides Yeah, let's get into it All right, so my first and hopefully simplest question You know or the thing that's been coming up for a lot of people and we talked about this even a little before the show is pod man and kind of support for Docker compose And just to give a little bit of background if you are unfamiliar One of the things we talk about on this show a lot is like as soon as you start using one container You start to recognize the need for a bunch of containers to accomplish your goal and what we refer to that is is orchestration and One of the very popular and I hesitate to say lightweight, but lightweight or straightforward or simple Orchestration models is been this thing's been floating around for a bunch of years I don't even think it was developed by Docker called Docker compose And it's super useful You kind of say I want a little web server and I want a database server and blah blah blah And then you can just describe all the pieces you need and say go and up comes all those containers And so recently in podman v3 podman has grown support for being able to read those same files I know this is where Brent comes in and and tells me how it actually works Yeah, I think it's important to also look at To look at how we kind of got here at the decision to support compose Was not taken lightly. It was something we had Debated probably for a year and a half Oh, wow before before even deciding to say, okay, let's do it. Wow. And so we yes and that's because of the of the beliefs around the orchestration model which we which I think will probably get to a little bit later, but if we We made the decision in the podman 2.x time frame to go ahead and support the Docker API the restful API and That was because we we were told very clearly by users that it's It's difficult to get off of Docker and onto podman even if they want to If they've written applications that consume that the restful API So we designed this split personality API for podman that answers to the Docker API but also has a podman API That has all the special stuff that podman has It wasn't long after that where you know, we were trying to really knock out hurdles for people to use podman and to use it more production rather than just Rather than just as a develop strictly as a single development tool and It became clear with the removal of Docker. Shall we say from rel 8? That Docker composes was really the last bastion to get taken care of and and we were seeing users and They were rather audible about it not being able to adopt podman and or leave Docker Without the investment. Yeah. Yeah, whether you will 100% believe that is the case or not That's that's the argument and it's reasonable Mm-hmm. So So last fall when we had our Well, it was even longer ago, but we decided, okay, we got to do this We got to get composed in because we don't we want to eliminate all the Rat for lack of a better word excuses that That prevent people from migrating barriers to entry hurdle. Yes, and let's be honest This is about rel 7 and rel 8 people can't move to rel 8 If they can't get their workload moved, right, right? Actually, I had a question come up on Twitter literally I think yesterday That someone was asking is like when will podman v3 be available for rel 8? And I was like, don't know But I I said I would ask and they brought up the great point of hey It could be in an app stream and I was like, oh, yeah, I like those. I was very involved in making those happen So is is there is podman v3 released already for rel? I didn't actually go and dig around because I knew we had the show Do you know what the timeline might be? This is what happens when you ask a developer who's right right? About what happened three months. Well, this is LinkedIn and I's problem too, right? We're talking about living in the future, but trying to stay in the present, right? I believe eight four is the target. Okay for version three Well, luckily, it's just between the three of us and so, you know, no one's no one's being quoted here But you know, but it's very very soon. I want to say is it me? I think it's me. Okay. This comes out Hey, okay. Good. So so but that and and fundamentally the goal is to have it land in rel, right? A v3 for rel dot next whatever that's gonna be it's it's like in one of the current rels Is where the the plan is for it to land. Let's put that way. Yeah, actually a V3 versions. I think it's a release candidate slipped out through the sent us the new Oh nice Yeah If anything that involves Koji is not answers that you want right rule. Yeah, no, so Actually, it kind of I was just sorry. I was thinking we have a show on the channel actually the rel What's it's called the rel admin show the rel something show with McBrien? Where you can definitely go hassle him about when pod man v3 will will be heading rel itself So so you ask you asked a question, which I don't think I quite answered Which which was your first question I just gave a little background about how we got there. Oh, okay Remind me. What was the specific? So I was gonna ask it like like what's what's my expectation as a former docker compose user or whatever About the future and and for me what I find actually Like most limiting about using pod man without having composed support is that I find random software on the internet And I want to try out and they have provided a docker compose file. So like right What's what's my expectation of is it a hundred percent compatibility? How you know, what should I what should I be expecting? Okay, the rules so to speak. Yeah. Yeah So if for those that maybe don't know a docker compose file is just a yaml structured file And it's kind of a recipe on how to build and run one or more containers and it also has the ability to sort of say how they should work together and The so-called rules for 3.0 are fairly simple root full only so We wanted to get root full pod man support of compose because that's what docker does. So that's the apples to apples comparison right functionally one of the areas always is going between Pied man and docker regardless of compose is always going to be swarm. We don't do swarm will never do swarm Okay, right? That's not the way we went. So if your Compose file dips into that water, which I don't see a lot of yeah, then we can't we can't digest that Well, we can digest so we can't run it right right otherwise. It should It should all work if it doesn't it's likely a bug and As you know, we're quite receptive to those upstream. Yep And so when we see those we go ahead and fix them right away. Yep Actually, and I mean it stands to reason, right?  I am curious. How is oh good. Sorry. I was gonna say one other thing there has been some confusion with early with folks that Don't have a straight vision for this. Let's say there has been confusion on they're thinking that somehow our Podman can interact with the docker stores like The docker's container runtime where the containers are running or their image stores. That's not the case It's it's a YAML file. Let's get fed in the podman. It's a hundred percent isolated from docker Right except that you run docker compose under pseudo presumably to To get this thing going so there's not actually an interaction between podman and docker's back ends You can see the containers and whatever it's it what we did is we wired The docker compose application, which is a python application to Podman's back end. Oh Oh, so this is not a podman command No, you can you if you dnf install docker compose on fedora You get the docker compose And you just run it and it's but it's actually using podman underneath, but it's using path podman as it's back in Okay, okay, that's the user experience we wanted so when when we say we wired up Docker compose what we did is made sure when you run compose and those API calls go through the restful interface We know what to do with them and we respond So it was also in a in a sense right a really good test of the sufficiency of your rest API implementation unfortunately Totally see that Also, it also forced us our hand on a number of commands or API endpoints that we didn't want to implement Because we for example a big one was container rename and we With the way pie man was designed. We had a hard fast belief that a Container's a container. It's not mutable You if you want to make a different container that's that name or whatever you deleted it and you recreated it but Docker compose uses remain and So we were you know, we had we had a force to contemplate that the other thing we had to do is fix some of our we had two network commands because we Under that same belief you didn't really modify a container on the fly the whole ability to be able to connect a Container to a network or disconnect it on the fly was not something we wanted to do this forced our hand. We now have a We have a pod man network connect and disconnect command because composed uses that so so it really forced us also to look at a lot of things we were doing and and So the side effect that the net side effect was just a good thing Is that our CLI became more compatible as well? Catching some of those commands that were on the outer edges Right, right. Oh, yeah, that's neat. Oh, yeah. Sorry. Go ahead lots lots of stuff happening in the chat right now I'm gonna start from the easy stuff for the hard stuff. So playing risky asked was volume is one of those I remember Dan mentioning that docker would create volume directories if they didn't exist while pod man wouldn't with pod man compose This has been an ongoing argument Did Dan tell you that our view of what docker does is that that's a bug? Versus a feature right, I mean typically in you know, POSIX you don't Create things that don't exist for people. You know Docker does we don't I believe in that end of that Was that we should do it for the API endpoint. So if you call in through the docker API Then we should do what docker does Nice so next question Well, what just a point of clarification. There's docker compose and there's pod man compose, right? Docker requires Podman compose is a separate project. Okay, and It has a different. I don't know if it has a different file format, but it essentially wraps pod man executable It doesn't call to its back end like Like docker compose Okay, did the docker compose like did the original one always like has it always called the API? Cuz I thought it was a wrap around docker too. Well, I don't know in the very very beginning but for The recent years. It's it's using the docker Python Package, okay to talk to the back end and I understand that has that is currently under development That they're changing that portion as well. They mean docker. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. Now. Here's the hard question pod man on Mac People want that I get asked for it at least weekly when will pod man on Mac start working and I know there's been some effort To kind of help with that. When will it start working two weeks ago? There you go. It started working A team member Ashley and I have been working the last three weeks on Exactly that we have a design in mind user experience in mind and how this should work Which differs a little bit from docker, but the user experience in the end is going to be about the same We've been working on Actually, we're gonna allow it. It's part of the pod man command The way we're building it so pod man machine will now be a command in pod man And then so it'd be like pod man machine and knit start stop remove SSH, that's what we can list. That's what we have today. Okay. That's all upstream in the main branch It went in After we cut 3 1 which was cut This week so 3 1 release is now out And it's going through the various fedora isms to get into Bodie and we've got a Set of folks that are testing it and giving it the run through It's still using the plan though is still to use a VM which is actually running the containers, right? Yes, actually we wrote this in a way that the back end if you will which which could be Livevert QMU Lib K run We wrote this such that we can do Those can be added And and then users can decide Or somebody a developer's gonna decide it's important enough to add it and then That will become available The Lib K run guys and I asked us to make sure that we started design it in that way and We're happy. I mean it's not really any extra work. We're happy to do that and So the version we're using right now. It uses QMU and We have it working on The reason I mentioned it was part of a command is because we're sort of developing in Linux It's just kind of faster for us but We've been also testing and developing on Apple M1s and we have it working there as well. Oh I like that That that decision so like I'm at this inflection point where it's like I need Something device wise new to do stuff and I'm trying to figure out where I land and be at PC or M1 Mac or Whatever a new iPad Pro comes out next month or whatever. I'm not sure yet. So that's interesting I will say they're quite nice. Yeah, no kidding. That's what I've heard nothing but good news Andrew Sullivan on our team has one and you just is enamored with it and was worried about like graphics performance and everything and apparently it's no issue It has not been the only Issues with taking this live or to GA with M1 is twofold We've got two hurdles that we're working on both. One is that there needed to be some There's a patch set from from a QMU developer That needs to get into QMU upstream proper and get released That has some specific enablement for M1s for the architecture and the second thing is The Out of the gate. We're basing this on Fedora CoreOS That's the VM running underneath And AR64 is not a Official architecture for CoreOS yet But we do see that changing very very soon So those are the two hurdles we're working on even then We've got a way to work around the fact that it's not official and we there's a mirror we can go grab them from And so the user experience will be as simple as this you you're gonna brew install Podman mm-hmm Which which will bring in the dependencies and whatever else we need then you're gonna do podman machine a knit and Hit enter and it's gonna go grab the default image uncompress it and then you're gonna do podman machine start And it'll boot that and it'll hold the terminal until it knows it's booted And then you can do podman remote or just podman And off it it'll automatically set up the keys and automatically Do what you need to do That's awesome so I thought I saw an article about this exact setup. I cannot remember where it was a red hat property I can't remember if it was developers or open source.com or do you recall by chance? It wasn't you writing it. I think because of What was the article about like podman on mac? Uh, oh And like kind of like a what what you just said in text form. Uh, no There's nothing like that yet Okay, there is a podman. There are several blogs on podman on mac on how to use A darwin a binary that we compiled of darwin To interact with a linux session somewhere else But we've never talked about it actually physically being on the same machine And us doing all the setup work and you can understand you got to think about the barrier here We're probably it seems actually quite small compared to docker corporation um We didn't really want to get into the virtualization business The operating system business, you know to make this all work and wire it all up that We're kind of putting ourselves a little bit out there and the hope is That the upstream community will help once we get the initial stuff laid out Like that they'll help us kind of maintain it because this this is probably a little bit beyond what we're going to be long-term capable of So I have just a quick question in there, which is um Do you envision at all that the For lack of a better term that the vm be pluggable So would I potentially be able to run rel core os instead of fedora core os? today Well, so i've done that but today You can If you don't do if you just take the default, you know, we wanted the sort of Yeah, you want that you want that really simple setup experience, right? So if you don't do anything you're going to get fedora core os But you can um on the init you can say you can play to a url or a local file and say i want to use this for my image nice Nice because I mean what very cool What comes back for me a lot of the time right is you know having spent many years as a developer is like I really like the things that i'm working on to be as close to production as humanly possible And if I know i'm running rel in production I don't really like developing on fedora, you know, like it might be You know, it might be my daily driver, but that's not the same thing.  I'm pretty satisfied with this You know, I i've been using the fedora core os. It's fast and you know, it's Excuse me. It's got some, you know future feature set or whatever Let me see what it's going to look like with some beta of rel Um, you know, and that's the that's the developer mindset because you're wanting to match these two things um For the I'll say the more casual user It's going to be I just don't make me figure this all out. Oh totally three three commands And I don't care as long as podman responds Right. I don't care what's on the inside if it's alpine or for the core os or you know, whatever just make it Just make it work To be clear. I only want to do that on the very last day of well, of course, right? I want it super easy until then and and we have also made it such that you can have multiples So you can you could make uh, you could have your default one For f cost and then you can say oh now I want to test it on our cost And do a five-man machine and that uh and give it a name You know our cost and then point it to the our cost image and off you go Nice nice That's very cool. Yeah Um, now there are her let me give you let me so I give me all the great news. Let me give you the news The not very good The news that we're living in right now A couple hurdles we gotta tip we guys knock out Pie man has this whole root full rootless experience If you think about how that applies to this scenario You know, you've got you've got now a host and a vm So root full and rootless on the host and root full and rootless in the vm And you know, what's going to be the deal? So what we've done right now is we've just enabled Rootless on the host rootless on the on the guests But that has limitations primarily in the networking area Right, we can't open rootless users can't open networks port and use ports that are They can't create bridge networks. It can't open ports that it's not allowed to so We're kind of bouncing our way through how does this really end up working in the end Because if you're a root user then you get all this exposure through bridge networking Right On the other hand bridge networking is kind of hard like to program it On the various or use it for that matter. Yeah, exactly So it's not clear cut. We've still got a venture that way Volume mounts will be a challenge From host to guests with two different os's and things like this We've got things to figure out. There are precedents for all of them we're just sort of At this stage, we're just it's like minimum viable product, you know product. Can we get this working? Is it realistic? And um, can we get enough out there that people can start to contribute to those things and help us Because I'm not an I'm not a macOS expert. I can't remember You know if it can do this or it can do that versus Linux the 5.4 kernel or you know, you mean it's right It can get maddening. Yeah. No, trust me. I yeah, I've I have to live in both worlds kind of so yeah Just the nature of the beast of live streaming, right? It's easier to stream from a mac than it is a fedora rig Although we have used fedora quite often to on the channel, but yeah, it's right Um, and it used to be the os that was the streaming thing before he moves to cloud instances. Um So yeah, I I've Fully understand that Linux mac windows like you can't keep track of all three or maybe even two Like it's hard enough with just Linux Yeah, um, so so related to this right so If people wanted to you know, at least contribute back bugs, you know or things like that like What should they do? Is there like a manual list they should join? Is there uh, is there a binary they can go and download and try out now? You know, um, you know or or is this or are you not there yet in a sense? We're not we're not well We would welcome help and we we have already gotten Two or three pull requests from community who's been watching us like sometimes you feel like they're Sitting on the wall kind of creeped over watching you and Did you get it in they pounce The guy has some so we get feedback sometimes within hours of cup qr is going in that's great though. Yeah That's great Yeah, it's it's a little of both and sometimes you get stuff for stuff that you knew you needed a fix You just didn't gotten to it yet, which is even better because it's like they're reading your mind um So we haven't changed what you can get from brew brew is still the the i'll call the old Podman remote approach where it interfaces with linux yet um I can't see Maybe maybe we will I don't quite have a feeling for what we even talked about This problem with the qmua patches, you know, would you actually release? Uh to brew which is the max install method would you release to that when there's a qmua that wouldn't work for an m1? Mm-hmm, but it would work for the intel mac um I don't know we got to kind of see where we are with that patch set. We're sure certainly not going to Distribute qmua on our own Yeah, that'd be a little much. Yeah Um, if but if you want to contribute, there's the if you go to podman io podman.io Uh, there's a mailing list there's um We'll take prs. We really value prs from the community. We try to give them um You know the first read through of the day rather than appears we'll go to something dan is very good about dan walsh was very good about pointing that out um And then really the the best absolute best place is we all hang out on Free node in a channel called pound podman Nice and during the us work time. We are there Uh 100 of the time unless we're in meetings. We're always watching it That's our primary development Communication method so we don't hide away on slack or anywhere else. It's right there come in You know ask a question Sure, but you get our attention when you say hey, I want to fix this bug. What do I do? We'll we'll hand walk you through that Right. I I have been there. I have said, uh, why is this broken? Um, the uh Actually, uh, it surprised me that you say us uh time actually just because I know there's a bunch of europeans on the team as well Um, so but they tend to be like more more on on us time generally um They at least bite off the first half of our us today Okay, all right. Um So I'm in central time um One's a weird one player particular valentine rothberg who's in uh, France he signs off about 11 my time Okay thereafter. Yeah, yeah um So one of the things I want to talk about too is just and I know uh, this is you know a subject that you're interested in Which is kind of like Oh, sorry chris. Was there another question in the audience or do you want to move on something else? Let me double check make sure you got everything. I don't think I'm I'm looking at discord in the corner. No, I There was one question. I think from One two. I'm not sure if it got answered, but I'll double check scrolling through. Okay um, so one of the things I wanted to talk about was Um, one of okay, so actually, why don't we start here? So when I do the docker compose stuff um Like how is podman treating it? So is it making a pod that it's putting all the containers in Is it a separate set of containers because obviously that has ramifications for how the communication between the components works And kind of by extension If I know it's working in that scenario, how do I mimic that in you know, for lack of better term in production Or in you know, somewhere else that isn't using that technique And and so kind of knowing how it works and then what do I do next is useful? Sure When you run docker compose we do whatever docker compose asks for so in the docker world That's containers docker, uh, to this point is unaware of what a pod is right And in fact, there's no As such there's no call for docker compose through the compatibility layer for a pod that all sits on That all sits on the pod man side like we have all that extra goodness that we offer So if you run it you get what you would in docker you get the same network the same volume the same containers The same ports everything tries to follow it if it doesn't it's probably a bug gotcha Um But I think where you're going is what do you do then like Okay, so you ran it What do you do? What are some things that you can do with that from From someone who writes code for pod man? What what do I think? Is that kind of where you want me? Yeah. Yeah, that's So yeah, yeah, um I thought the first answer would be more complicated to be honest, but it's basically it's like We're we're trying basically it's whatever docker would have done if docker compose called docker That's a good answer. Um, and it just and that's what people want I mean that's that in in essence is what people want And now we want them to say, okay, and you got it in the pod man do something you know Give me the extra chocolate and nuts and cherry on top Um And so our view is I a good example is I've done I wrote an article with or vashi and um Then did a presentation at the container plumbing days that Um described, okay We've got docker compose now we already could interact with kubernetes How do you get from From docker with docker compose To being able to push something into kubernetes and know almost nothing about kubernetes So someone says, oh, yeah, you can push your workload here. That's about all you need to know Right and and we've covered that on the show like we talked about this before like I think that Basically being able to set up your whole little pod right and say put this container there and that one there or whatever And then be able to say okay now export that is huge You know, there's a lot of other tools that I wish I could do that with So that I can kind of I know how I want everything to connect together. I don't always know the yaml Whatever to make that true. And so having that export is super handy Um, yeah, that's kind of where I want to go. It's like, okay now. I've got this docker compose yaml Either either from somewhere else on the internet or something that I figured out how to do How do I get that into kubernetes? And on that topic On that topic That's where I feel podman still has plenty of growth Is that assistance from single node To kubernetes and back So thinking as a developer I'm trying to develop this application that's got these pods and containers and I finally got it working on my on my laptop the way I want it How do I get it over there?  That's a feature But we'll put it on the list, right and then we do that Actually of late people have just given us a pr saying you don't do it. Here it is and we've been able to just merge it for free Right Right question in chat podman currently supports generating kubernetes resources based on running setups Will podman v3 support converting compose files into kubernetes resources Not in a direct Wanner in other words, you have to run the compose file and then you have your running Containers as a result of that then you run the kube generate to get your game off But it won't be quite It may not be quite what you want Because of the lack of pods right because it's doing exactly what docker told it to do Well, we convert those containers into pods depending on how you snapshot them So let's say you ran a compose file that had Let's say it had five containers And three of them were database related and two of them were web related Depending on how you snapshot that I might say well snapshot those three Snapshot it in two pieces two groups One's database one's web you'll get two yaml files and then service files if you need them That way they're sort of organized But we always we oh when we do the yaml it has to be these containers have to be in a pod Even if it's just one container In one pod That's the way it has to be because kubernetes can't You know kubernetes obviously can't run straight containers has to be in a pod as well okay, so so I'm not sure if I'm asking this correctly, but like okay, so Inside so when I say cube generate or I can't remember exact syntax command, but you get the idea. Um, yep It's going to wrap the stuff in pods. Absolutely But are is it running in pods in podman? No. No. Okay. Okay. That's where I okay So so it really is inside of podman. It looks exactly like docker told it to look in this But then as soon as you say hey, I need to go deploy this over in cube land which requires pods it introduces the pod concept, um okay, so I guess for me as a consumer right like so what I would actually recommend someone do is Kind of generate the cube out of it and then one of the nice things about podman, right? And I actually I know I filed a bug about this and hopefully it's getting better, but it's like Then I would want to turn around and run that generated cube files in podman To make sure that the pods are now set up correctly because now now I have introduced a pretty big difference Between what I had running and what I'm proposing to run in kubernetes Yes, and one of the things one of the things people struggle with in that Um, what these are things like I said that we I think we can make better There's there's still plenty of things to do here is Most people don't under that aren't familiar with kubernetes, but are familiar with docker Or podman. They don't really understand the pros and cons of a pot of grouping containers in a pod Oh, yeah So the big the big big one that we always get is networking and how the fact that containers in the same pod share the same network namespace So what that really means to the containers is if you have three containers in a pod they can refer to each other by localhost That all they're all in the same container network space So this this thing about port mapping so that they can communicate and running on You can eliminate all that that's one of the that's one of the things that we get That docker compose does a really good job of Of when it runs it sets up all the dns for the containers so that they can refer to each other and we do that too But there's no need for it when it's in a pod. You can just go straight to localhost or something like that Right, and so that's one of the upsides that people quite don't quite see is it's not that hard to To actually make this, you know a nice tightly bound thing that's why I was saying put all your database stuff into One pod and they can just refer to each other or localhosts. You don't have to expose traffic Right, right. I see things right Yeah, I mean I don't like personally, I think there's um Like the thing that docker compose has as an advantage is the simplicity Of its yaml syntax The the the resultant thing that is running is in some ways a lot less simple um but You know, it's like and this is kind of Like to be honest why i'm a little surprised and I guess, you know, it's kind of that customer feedback problem is that um I I guess I was hoping for Uh docker compose syntax Resulting in podman simplicity um in a sense, um, you know, so that it's a slightly different take On how to implement that docker compose, uh, kind of functionality. Um, you know But you know I like I can see both sides of that argument very very easily, uh, and it's just you know, like I said That's why I was a little surprised. I didn't quite realize that was the path that went down. Um So that's cool but uh File an issue because we you know, we are I I didn't I wasn't really like Saying enough, but we are requirements driven we we We have ideas on where we want to take like really core stuff like security and networking and you know things that are core to the runtime But how that always gets ingested in use We need to hear sometimes right totally totally specifically people like Dan and I you know We we need to hear like well, no, no This is how I want it to work or look or act or this is what it should do And then we can you know, we can kind of contemplate that amongst all the other things but It's it's it's a conundrum we talk about it as a team The team Is primarily a container runtime expert. We know we know about the runtimes the back ends the apis namespacing C groups v2 we know about those things To say that we're container experts It depends on what On what point you're coming from right like I don't know how my sequel works with you know The mycicle image from red hat works with the alpine image of php over here like I don't know Well, this is like when I first joined red hat right I came in as a developer advocate right and one of the people What I first thought was hey, I've got you know red hat has a lot of engineers So I can use those engineers to kind of inform You know what kinds of things people want to do and that kind of stuff and I quickly discovered that no I can't because the people who work on building an operating system the people who work on building a container platform Or whatever are not the same people who build web applications, right? And you know, I'm sure both can you know, at least in in many occasions could cross over But certainly not with the expertise that they normally or or kind of the knowledge of the pain Of day-to-day operations in the you know in whatever, you know house they live in in a sense The great question we get often on IRC and I smile about it is So there's a bunch of us developers sitting out there and someone will come in and say all right. I'm a new How do I wire together these containers? I mean you might get 12 responses that are completely different On how that should be done and that's sort of that's why I say that's the conundrum of of being a developer stuck between The nitty gritty and the I just want this to work at people, right, you know, it's Well, I mean honestly space in there. That's I mean that Exact experience right is actually why this concept of developer advocacy is actually kind of taking off the last five or 10 years Um, it's like okay. You built this cool thing, but as a consumer of it. How do I use it, right? Um, but so that's super interesting So we're we're getting close to running out of time one thing I wanted to ask you was okay We've we've beaten docker composed like a dead horse What is your favorite feature of v3 that isn't that? You know, what's the what's the coolest thing that you think that people should know about? That you know, we haven't talked about yet So we're excluding Generate and coup play I don't know. I really like those. So yeah, those are really good. And so let's reiterate that people should go look at those if That for me is the number one thing because like I don't think it's used enough and I think it's a shame because You know docker composed is the is the Is the technology that allows docker and podman to interact And yaml, you know kube is the one that allows podman and all these kubernetes kubernetes back ends To coexist, right? Right. So anytime you can find that That's where the powerful stuff is and so are there a lot of improvements in the kube area of Yeah, yeah, I was looking at the release notes because it was so long ago So long ago for me, right and I was like wow there was I mean, we had probably a dozen bug fixes and And a half dozen new things on kube between three and three one Including three and three one kube generate episode. Um, you know, because the last one we did would have been I don't know middle early last year. Uh, so You know, we uh, we should definitely think about doing another episode Did dan talk about the short name? Stuff no, but I did in an episode or two ago, which I was a good thing or a bad thing It's it's cool. Once you know, it's happening But at first you're like what like where did it come up with this thing over here? um, at least that was my my opinion, uh, the other related one that I thought was interesting is the um The like menu of options if it's not sure which container you want which Was interesting because I found one where all four of the options didn't actually exist at the far end Uh, and I was kind of like well, this is disappointing Like could we have like maybe a little bit and I was thinking about going to file a bug about this But it's like maybe a little bit of checking of that. Is this an actual option? Even though it looks like an option Was kind of funny and I I definitely hit an edge case there. I'm I'm certain But I thought that was really neat is the You know, you said you wanted this, but which one did you really mean? Um, because I think that's something that that catches people a fair amount And there was a security element to it. Was that was that Brought to light on why we did it? No, actually, I don't think no We we had this we had I totally just found it as a user this this use case Um, yeah, we didn't just do short names to like do a cool menu The the the idea behind it is In in the docker world. They're primarily only pulling from docker. I owe that's how that product was designed, right? Uh in our world With podman and sort of being open sourced a little bit more open minded on where things come from You can have 10 registries and by default we usually ship two or three enabled Right, uh fedoras and quit, you know, whether it's quay or red hat or you know, whatever and so What was what and then docker. I owe what was learned is it is possible that if you type in um podman run foobar And it went through this algorithm of we used to go through an algorithm of trying to find the image like we walked each one Wow, and then when we found a hit we'd pull it right And so it was We never had a case of it but One of the things we learned is it was possible that a bad actor could put a image in one of these Repositories that as it walked it would pull it And so You know the the recommendation was well now you must Pull everything by a fully qualified name In other words, you know docker. I owe library or quay. I don't know. Yeah, but But I'm lazy. You know our users would howl about that because we just want to do docker pull alpine Right, we don't and so the compromise was to do this and then it remembers That when I say alpine I mean This one over here So that we can prevent that accidental pulling that was the that's the genesis of that of why that work was done Interesting. I I didn't actually know about the remember part that it's definitely interesting and useful. Um, you know, I think Right, that's another thing maybe I would go kind of file a bug about though is that Um, if I then go and turn around and do cube generate for example Is it going to put in the fully qualified names? I would want it to because I've now I've now indicated maybe a non default choice, right? Um, and I actually had this problem in open shift We talked about it on the show of like I tried to get a particular image I didn't have the secret set up to get it And so it silently failed and gave me a different it gave me an alternative Which was completely borked because it was set up completely differently. Um, so yeah, so that that's really interesting I really like that feature. I thought it was uh, it was really cool I would also be remiss not to tell you guys that 3 1 now includes secrets Oh, so we did get that in. Oh nice. They're not encrypted. They're still you know stuck to do But all the It's there and it works And that came in 3 1 Nice nice very nice Uh, so like I said, we're nearly out of time Let's uh quickly jump to the sweet sweet internet points and for Brent who I assume has not watched the show all that regularly if at all um What we do is we have a fun little game where if you uh kind of watch episodes and fill in uh google form You collect points. Uh, and so and then every episode we talk about where people's standings are Uh, and so right now, uh with 4700 points We have norendes and then netherland's hack them. Uh, mind you Brent just by way of context We completely make up how to say these names Yeah, uh, it's because the way the form is set up is that um, I ask for your actual name But I also asked for a name that you want to be uh displayed if you want to be sure Um, so then we also have no affriction at 3600 um And then uh, joe fuzz who I think has been sticking at uh, 2300. We need joe fuzz to come back um And uh detective kona kudo, uh, who also goes by the eighth doctor. Um, I'm not sure which one he is today Um, but we know him from sidora land pretty well And then bacon fork with 800 points uh and fork Exactly. So, uh, thank you all so much for collecting those points. I am looking for the correct window to be able to today's points Which is here um And so you can go kind of follow the link with the pre cashed, uh, or like prefilled form Or just go enter it manually And then the other thing that I do on occasion is today I just want to call out, uh, some new people So we have daggo berks Uh, pinhead tejas row row probably 97 Who are some new people to the show or loose new people to submit for points For example, jp dayd who I think is here at most episodes still has like near zero points jp dayd You could be getting points. Um And uh, you know, but we like to welcome new people. We hope you come back. We hope you found the episode interesting Um a couple of quick points. I would just make about past episodes. We have jeff. I went and looked it up It's in the chat. Um, but we started covering Podman cube generate in like episode seven It sounds like maybe we should do a new one using v3, which would be kind of cool Um, uh, because I think it's I think it's a super cool feature. I agree with you brent. It's like highly unknown um And uh, it really needs a lot more surfacing because I think even even if you aren't going to cube The ability to generate that yamble and then replay it even in podman Uh is is so much like the feature set of docker compose that it's totally worth it Whether you're using kubernetes of any kind at all. Um, so yeah, I strongly recommend it Thank you again for being on the show. Thank you for all of our work. Uh, we really appreciate it Um, is there anything else we should cover chris or should we uh Well, I had there's a very generic question here from ms that just says podman versus docker with respect to security I asked for more clarification. I'm hoping to get some um Want me to answer it? Sure. I mean if you think you can answer that question go ahead The only rule we have on the show is that the level of hour can never actually be an hour So perfect timing perfect timing. Yeah The it's without a doubt podman is the more secure um, and it's based on its design so If you just look at root full versus rootless rootless right out of the box is more secure, but also you know, dan welch is a big part of podman and you know Yeah, he's got mr. Yep, he's got stuff nailed down and the way we do things is just Just outright more secure c-groups v2 And all those things are contributing to that and it's only going to get Better or tighter as things go One thing I want to point out too is that I think a lot of people don't realize That they're running docker in a in a as a root full state. Yeah, because when you install it and set it up Um, most you know most directions about setting it up actually have you If you know sudo, right? It's basically doing a sudo without a password model On creating your docker images. So like for a long time. I used docker and didn't know That I was actually right operating as root. Yeah And why is that bad like why why is that bad?  I use application containers all the time You know, and so I'm giving it access to my file system On a regular basis and giving it as root is a whole lot different than giving it as my normal user Absolutely. The reason I use sudo is because I almost never use the root user And and so that I don't accidentally rm-rf slash, right? I mean, it's nice that rm actually has built in that it's hard to do that now But the that's kind of the point is like I'm operating this piece of software as non-root because I know I screw that kind of thing up regularly when an app Makes me think that I'm non-root, but I'm actually root. That's very very dangerous for me So that's one of the things that I think people don't realize about docker Yep, and by the way, that's one of the biggest Issues or complaints against podman, which is a bit unfounded is We get users that have been running container x on docker for three years And then they run it in podman as rootless and it doesn't work And they you know poop on podman in because of it and then when you start asking questions Well, that container like you know needs to map to a port less than 1024 Or that container is doing something that's privileged and therefore it doesn't have to be run as root That's you know, that's not something podman's not gonna Not gonna fix that for you So we always say if it fails as rootless try it as root If if it works as root then go back to rootless and figure out what privilege is required See if you can overcome that hurdle It's like just as the list of of set and force zero try it again, right if it works Yeah, there's the first one right, you know if the firewall, you know turn off the firewall See if it works right turn it back on if you know try your pod or try your image as a You know root podman and then you know, that's that's funny. I I don't do that Generally speaking I find the error messaging is sufficient to kind of say. Oh, yeah, you know Like I am doing something that requires root or whatever But it is a good that is a good tip. I'll uh, I'll definitely keep that one around. I like it All right, Chris. Yeah, I think we're good. I think uh All our questions have been answered. If not, there is a discord channel folks. Please join us We can make brint come back, you know Bring come back if there's enough questions. Absolutely Absolutely And when in doubt check out our calendar and don't forget folks Red Hat summit is coming. I'm sure everybody on the channel has some hand in it this year. Um Keep an eye out. We're going to be doing a teaser show on the level up our uh with some big name guests for Uh, both summit and kubecon because they uh, they're back to back. Yeah. Yeah Yeah, I'm in the I'm in the the race to kubecon right now speaking of kubecon. Did you want to mention anything about that? Yeah, duh uh, so we are doing uh We're going to give away some tickets to kubecon. We have some tickets And uh, we are going to take a slightly different tack in a sense than the general internet points tack Which is what we're asking people to do is post somewhere on the social media Um pick whichever one you like the best That you you know something cool you learned on the level up our Then give us a link to it in the discord and say this is what I posted about the level up our, you know Whatever and then so for every time you uh, do one of those social media posts and then link to it in the discord So I don't have to follow all of the socials forever That's why we're asking you to put a link to it in the discord You'll get an entry into our our little raffle to give away We uh a few kubecon tickets that we were able to secure And so we can hopefully support you go into kubecon We also may be giving out a couple of kubecon tickets to some of the uh, biggest What do we call it biggest proponents of the channel? Yeah, um, and so uh, you know So you can you can win multiple ways in a sense But uh, definitely want to use the this is an opportunity to share what you've learned And you should see some tweets from me over the next few days You know, and I think I even started using the hashtag, you know, share what you learned In there because I'm a nerd But yeah, so hopefully we'll have a fun little contest and you will also get internet points for Joining the discord if you didn't already if you weren't already joining the discord So that is what we're doing to give away a few kubecon EU tickets So oh and we only have two weeks. So you have from today Two and then not next show right but the show after that And we'll give away the tickets or we'll announce it You know, we'll do the public private thing like we do for the internet points During that episode Cool. That was super complicated Yeah, so folks the gist of it is Share something you learned on the channel post the link to it in the discord before Before Sorry, April 14th 14. Okay, cool Just wanted to make the nice short suite package there for everybody. Exactly. Yeah There you are the short guy. So you should give away tickets to red hat summits That's a good point. We should We should um, we didn't get on top of that in time to be clear. Summit is free. So We're giving you all tickets So just remember you got them here the level up hour gave you a free ticket to summit Yes, you got them here. All your free tickets are for you for summit. Yes. I hope I'm right I'm like 99.9 percent sure but now I have a panic attack that I'm wrong I believe it to be free All right So with that being said, I feel like we're good here Brent. Thank you very much for coming on Thank you to the audience for participating as always We've already had a hundred messages in chat today, which always makes me happy especially when it's in one show And uh, we will see you next week. What are we talking about next week? Do you remember? Uh, what are we talking? I opened it already. So I should know. Uh, let's see I can follow it. Let's see if we are talking about oh, we're supposed to be doing pod manv three stuff next week With just the two of us. So we will definitely light something on fire. Yeah, something will definitely break And we're doing oh, then we're supposed to be doing a deep dive into the ubi with uh, mr. McCarty um And then the one after that is when we do that t show with some pretty big guests, uh, which as soon as I As soon as we can like probably later this week We will be announcing uh those guests and we'll actually be teasing a little bit of another show that red hat produces And then kind of going into a deeper dive on what that show is about Um, that is a great hint as to who the guest may be exactly exactly especially the summit and kubecton part is also right Yeah So Thanks everybody. Yeah. Thank y'all and stay safe out there. Don't forget to uh, you know, do your points and register You know or post accordingly as we've prescribed for free tickets to kubecton. Exactly exactly Thank you again, and we will see y'all next time


Good day to everyone. First, I would like to thank you for the opportunity to talk to you today. It's an honor and a privilege to talk to such a distinguished audience united by a joint commitment to the course of patient safety. It's a particular pleasure to talk at a conference that is co-convened by several societies of anesthesiologists and intenduists since I have a past as an anesthesiologist. It has now been more than 20 years since I left the operating theater, but I still consider the almost 20 years spent there as important formative years. After all, the core task for an anesthesiologist is to bring the patient safely through an operation. Many of the ideas on how to approach safety have been in use for a long time as common ways of working as a practicing anesthesiologist. My present role is being the CEO of the International Society for Fellows in Healthcare, ISQA. ISQA is an organization that rallies people. Our tagline is Knowledge Network Voice. For us, our most important working capital is our network of members, partners, ISQA experts, and the ISQA Academy. Through this network, ISQA has access to a large corpus of knowledge about healthcare quality and safety. The red thread running through all our activities is to make this knowledge available and usable to healthcare professionals all over the globe. Promoting and supporting patient safety is a core component of our mission. We want to contribute to ensuring that patient safety remains highly placed on the agenda for leaders and professionals in healthcare. We also want to contribute to generating and disseminating knowledge that enables healthcare providers to meet the challenge. The world is emerging after two years of pandemic, healthcare systems and individual healthcare staff worldwide have demonstrated an extraordinary capability to adapt, innovate, meet enormous, unknown and unforeseen challenges. They had to learn quickly to understand the new disease and how to manage it, search for drugs, develop vaccines, develop pathways to take care of large numbers of patients. Truly amazing things have been achieved. All of this is remarkable and notable, but it has come at a cost. The system and the people working in it have been severely stressed. One of the concerns that rank high on hospital managers agenda is concern about staff leaving, retiring or moving into other industries. Another is the topic of this conference, patient safety. In a recent perspective paper in the New England Journal of Medicine, Lee A. Fleischer and co-workers reported a substantial deterioration in the US on multiple patient safety metrics since the beginning of the pandemic. This includes collapse rates, catheter-associated urinary tract infections, ventilator-associated events, MRSA, bacteria, falls and pressure ulcers. All of them are examples of harm that is known to be avoidable, not only in theory, but also from solid and well-documented practice. The data presented in this paper were from the US, but I have no reason to believe that this situation is unique to that country. Accordingly, patient safety must be pushed to the top of the agenda for the entire world. The WHO is obviously leading acts on this endeavor. The WHO Global Patient Safety Action Plan 2021-2030 sets the direction towards eliminating avoidable harm in healthcare. It's an impressive catalog of strategies that will drive real improvement of safety. What will it take to translate these ideas into action and improvement for patients? So, Liam Dunlison, WSO Patient Safety in War in a talk to a WSO Policymakers Forum on the 23rd of February this year said that what is needed from policy makers to promote implementation of patient safety is that they show commitment from the top in multiple ways and all the time, provide infrastructure and mainstream patient safety. I will dwell on the notion of mainstreaming patient safety. This means that every time we think on how to deliver care, we must include considerations of how to deliver safety. But to integrate safety prudently into all our thinking, we must broaden and deepen our understanding of the concept. Some scholars talk of safety one and safety two. Safety one can be described as an approach where you strive to eliminate harm by finding and eliminating causes of harm errors. While there's clearly a merit in doing so, it can't stand alone as it's based on the assumption that adverse outcomes can be explained by linear cause effect change and that there's a way of an, as there is an a priori way of describing how to deliver safe care. Harm is caused by deviating from this best practice. In a complex system, this is not always the case. The safety one approach therefore needs to be supplemented by an approach that may be called safety two, where you study what it is that enable things to go right in spite of varying expected and unexpected conditions. The aim is here to improve the way in which actors in healthcare understand, anticipate and monitor what's going on and adapt the actions as needed and learn while doing so. This should not be a novel approach to an anesthesiologist. This isn't that we do what we do every time we're given anesthesia. One consequence of this is that there's not one single road that leads to patient safety. We need a multi-pronged strategy based on a deep understanding of safety, risk and what determines the performance of a complex system, such as healthcare, trying to influence a complex entity, human health. But we should also relate patient safety to another strong trend in the time person-centered care. We should not view those two as conflicting or competing or irrelevant to one another and the contrary, they're connected. One of the ways in which we can deepen our understanding of safety is to view it from the patient's perspective. We are stuck in the real world and we need to bring together and bring together with the understanding of complexity, safety, strategies for the real world. In 2016, two eminent researchers in the field of patient safety, René Amalberti and Charles Vincent wrote a book titled, Patient Safety, Strategies for the Real World. It's a freely available e-book and I warmly recommend it to you. They recognize that patient safety was challenged even before the COVID pandemic. I quote them, the combination of austerity, rising healthcare costs, rising standards and increased demand will place huge pressures on healthcare systems that will increase the likelihood of serious breakdowns in care. Innovations in the delivery of care in the home and community while providing new benefits will also create new forms of risk. Does this sound familiar to you? They urge us to reconsider how your safety risk and of how harm occurs. They find it useful to create safety in five levels. It is shown in this slide. The first level is the level of optimal care, the shared ideal vision of excellent care. This is what we try to encapsulate in standards and reference programs. But for many situations, it's not easy to design. As for example, in the case of a frail elderly patient with multiple chronic conditions and an added acute problem. Number two is a standard of care which experts would judge as those providing a good outcome for the patient and to be achievable in day-to-day practice. There may be some deviations from the ideal, but they're relatively unimportant for the overall outcome. Level one and two is where you want to be. And there is free safety may be compromised. There are frequent departures from best practice, often in the shape of shortcuts, trade-offs, and misses. Individually, these departures most of the time don't cause harm, but the potential for harm is increased and effects may accumulate over time. The need for shortcuts and trade-offs arises when there are conflict considerations. For example, between efficiency and safety or between the need to act and the desire to wait. If there are different conditions that demand different types of care, also there's a misalignment between expectations and resources. Level three is what some scholars call the illegal normal. It's not uncommon to find care at this level and the border and the accepted can gradually migrate so that the system gets towards level four, where we find departure from standards with the sufficient to produce avoidable harm, but where harm is still detected and mitigated or even reached onto level five, where care is poor over longer periods and places the patient at risk. Harm is not recognized or treated, but it is allowed to progress to become prolonged or even permanent or fatal. Notice that we may think of levels one and two as the areas of quality management and level four and five of the areas of safety characterized by the occurrence of defined patient safety incidents and adverse events. However, much of the harm is the result of a community effect of substandard care rather than a one clearly defined event. And this is in particular true for long-term care in primary health. It is important to realize that safety is not a constant characteristic of a system of hospital X. It doesn't make sense to say that the entire healthcare system or an entire healthcare system is either safe or not. What you can access is the safety of care at a given point and a given time. This is where the patient perspective becomes important. Safety may vary as you move along the timeline of a given patient journey and the patient is the only one that experiences the entire journal. This is particularly true for chronic conditions and with several providers, hospitals, primary care physician, home-based, based nursing care, family patients themselves all contribute to care delivery as scope producers. In this slide you see four patient journey. Arthritis, hip fracture, diabetes and depression. I won't go into the details about what the stories might be and why safety is up to it. I'm sure you can imagine such stories. But now I tell you that this was not about four different persons. It was one person with four conditions put the curves on top of each other and I'm sure you grasp that there might be connections. But would they be obvious to a diabetes team monitoring the safety of diabetes care? Just asking the question. In addition to the five levels of safety it's also useful to consider three different approaches to safety as shown in this slide. We have here different domains. One is the ultra-adaptive domain. This is where we embrace risk and manage it. We embrace risk not because we're reckless but because we take the risks to gain a larger benefit. Examples of this would be deep-sea fishing, military war time, Himalaya mountaineers but also some cases of rare cancer treatment or treatment of trauma. To work in this domain we need to understand what we're doing. We need to be experts that risk is managed by giving power to experts and by training through peer-to-peer learning. This is rather uncommon but does occur from time in health care. Much more common is perhaps the mid-domain where risk is not sought out but is inherent in the profession. Much of schedule, surgery and chronic care we belong to here. We can't predict and regulate everything. What we do is that we have good teams that work according to the principles of resilience, monitoring, adapting, learning, anticipating. But in some instances we're able to move to the domain of ultra-safe care where everything is very much regulated. Examples of this in health care would be provision of radiotherapy and blood transfusions. Here is the power led lives with regulators and supervision of the system to ensure that we grow by strictly defined processes. Once we understand where we are in terms of level of safety and the process of safety we can begin to design our strategy based on elements from five basic strategies all outlined in the book by Vincent and Alam Albersi I talked to you about. Two traditional ones, standardization of specific processes according to best practices to avoid specific harm. In other words, following standardized procedures strictly defining ways of behaving when performing safety critical tasks. This is what we do when we have surgical checklists, interventions to reduce catharsis and related infections and implement care bundles. The second strategy is general improvement of work processes and systems. The idea is here to reduce complexity, standardization of procedures, roles and communication lines, responsibilities is one way of doing it that is much of what lies behind actualization, for instance, but it's also about improving working conditions and organizational practices such as providing training, automation of key processes, design of equipment, structured handovers, reduction of noise and disturbance and improve levels and organization of starving. But we need to have more strategies in our toolbox. Risk control, eliminating risk is an obvious choice and we know it from anesthesia. We cancel anesthesia in case of an upper respiratory infection, we use different types of couplings with different gases and we restrict certain types of care to privileged providers. We define what we might call no-go conditions. In the fourth strategy, we rely on anticipating monitoring, adaptation and response. This is what we need for instance when we provide care for a patient with psychosis in the community. We can't write a book about how to do this. We need to move our way forward. Rapid response teams is another example of this building briefing and anticipation into clinical routines and promoting a team culture is one of the sub strategies here and apply methods to predict times of star sorts short of these relatives to demand so that we can adapt staffing to expected load. Expected load is not a way of handling it. Finally, when we have the fifth strategy mitigation, in some cases we need to accept that harm may occur but that we are prepared to react on it when we give hypothenticization therapy. We have a syringe of epinephrine ready. That's an example of that. In settings where care can be precisely delineated, strategies to control exposure to risk and to maintain standards will predominate but in contrast in more fluid and dynamic environments strategies to improve monitoring and adaptation may be more likely to make us achieve the desired level of safety. But it's important to say that within all five strategies you need a solid procedural underpinning. Standardization of roles, equipment, procedures is an important component, a toolbox if you like but in some cases you can't always describe exactly how to use the toolbox. Let me once again emphasize that across all these strategies goes the partnership with patients and families. Care will increasingly move out of hospitals and into the home. Typical problems for healthcare to address will be complex long-term conditions of multimorbidity, frailty and social challenges. Patients are partners with whom we co-produce care and with whom we share this decision-making power. Patients are perfectly able to understand and accept that we sometimes together embrace risk in the hope of achieving a substantial benefit and that we at other times strive for ultra-safety. In the real world, trade-offs are sometimes necessary but the right trade-offs can't be made without asking patients the core question of patients and what matters to you. Let me conclude with some remarks to policy makers, leaders and managers. And I will reiterate Salih and Donaldson's points that I mentioned earlier in this presentation show commitment from the top in multiple ways of all the times, provide infrastructure mainly in patient safety, maybe by using some of the methods I've described to you today and add to this involved patients as co-producers and partners. Leverage the power that is in this. Thank you very much for your attention. Good afternoon, my name is Luis Torres-Torresa, Quality and Patient Safety Coordinator of Hospital Español of Mexico. On behalf of the hospital, we would like to thank the Patient Safety Movement Foundation for this recognition as HRO champion with whom we have collaborated and shared the vision of zero preventable deaths by 2030. Patient safety must be a cornerstone in the current process and through health, personnel, patients and family members, we continue to develop a culture that favors the prevention and reduction of errors that cause harm to patients due to avoidable adverse effects. Over the years as Hospital Español, we have understood that the most common cause of medical errors in our patients is not in the individuals but in the system failures. And by working on safe processes, we have seen results that generate benefits for all. We work every day to reduce unwarranted variation in delivery of care while improving clinical outcomes and lowering costs. Achieving this level of clinical and operational excellence often requires a culture transformation. Fundamentally, changing an organization's attitudes believes goals and values and we continue to work every day to achieve this. In the hospital, we have quality and patient safety models that really guide us to implement the best practices to allow and to know and understand why failures occur. These errors help us to endear patient safety and establish strategies to address the root cause without missing the opportunity to learn from our mistakes. The work carried out since 2016 together with the Patient Safety Movement Foundation has made it possible to complement the actions with the quality and patient safety models, adding work processes with the objective that patients who receive treatment in our hospital can rely on the best possible attention because we understand that patient safety must be a priority in all the aspects of care. Our commitment is based on being a facilitator to achieve the well-being of people, help them improve their health and give them the best conditions for their management and recovery under a framework of continuous improvement. It's important to learn to meet the needs of our patients and recognizing that medical care take place in a complex and dynamic environment has also made us aware of the difficulties of daily operations and provide the organization's teams with the necessary resources and skills to handle these changing situations. Now, after years of experiences, we have come to understand that the key of helping to develop a high reliable environment goes beyond patient safety initiatives. We need to effectively address system issues. This includes at least the understanding of the behaviors and needs of the population, the design of safe processes, leadership, transparency and accountability. This is the only way to make sense of system failures and find ways to fix it. We are really grateful to be recognized by the Patient Safety Movement Foundation as a high reliable organization. As we continue with our path and conviction of improving and providing the best care for our patients. Thank you very much.


So an exercise like Talisman Saber, when anyone's watching as to what we can do, it's nice to put it on full display. And the one thing that exercise Talisman Saber says like that is not only can we fight, we will fight and we will fight together. So working in a coalition, it has its challenges and struggles. Even when you speak the same language, the cultural differences can be huge. I would say the only thing harder than that would be working without a coalition. It's an amazing experience and the more that we train together, the more that we work together, the easier it becomes. And in just three weeks on that ship, watching these teams work together and work through problems using the same type of military lingo so to speak and understanding what each other wanted to do and what their capabilities were, they put together very quickly and as you'll see very effectively. I'm very pleased with the outcomes of Talisman Saber. To me the fact that we can get 17,000 personnel together to operate in a COVID environment is nothing short of a miracle. It's because of a lot of dedication and hard work by a lot of men and women from both Australia but also from six other nations who participated. And that's the nature of what a friendship is and that's what friends do for each other.


And konnichiwa to Think Tech Hawaii, Japanese series Konnichiwa Hawaii, and all Japanese broadcast streaming live from downtown Honolulu and available on YouTube. I'm your host, Yukari Kunisue, and joining me today in the studio is Kumiko Burns, partner of Locations. Minasai, konnichiwa. Honolulu's downtown, Think Tech Hawaii, is available in Japanese. Konnichiwa, Hawaii. I'm your host, Yukari Kunisue. Today's broadcast is from the partner of Locations, the company of Fudo, from Hawaii. We have Kumiko Burns, a veteran realtor, with us today. We would like to talk about Fudo's journey, Fudo's journey, and all of that. Thank you for your time today, Kumiko. Kumiko, you've been in Hawaii for 25 years, 30 years?  What do you think about the opportunity you started 30 years ago? So if you can, do you have any changes in the last 30 years or so? Can you tell us about that? I've been in Hawaii for 35 years, but I was able to have a child right away, so I was planning to stay home for a while. But then I started working, and then I started working as a realtor. And then a lot of people came from Fudo's company. When I was about one year old, I got used to working in Fudo's company, so I was told to get a job at Rancest. That's when I started working in Rancest. So you started working as a realtor? Yes, but at that time, I didn't know how to make a reservation for a broker. How did you make a reservation?  Yes, I'm a broker. Then I started working as a realtor. It was just when I was in the bubble of Fudo's company in Japan. I was still working in Rancest, and I didn't have any experience or knowledge about training, but I was able to speak Japanese language. So I started working a lot. And then I got a lot of job offers. That's good. But at that time, I thought something was wrong with my job. I didn't have any knowledge or experience. I couldn't give advice to customers. At that time, there were a lot of people who had never worked in Japan before. No, it was a new business, so I didn't have to do any business. I was like, when will I get the money? So you didn't have to buy it? No, I didn't. That's why I was surprised that I was able to get a job easily. I thought this job was strange. And then after about three years, the bubble of Japan was over. After two years, I couldn't get a job at all. After all, I didn't know what to do, so I had to leave the company. I don't know how to talk about it. I thought I should quit my job at a full-time job. I had already invested my time and money for myself, so I thought it would be better to keep going. Don't worry about it. After all, I have to pay a lot of fees. I have to get education. I have to go to a lot of seminars. That's why I have to quit my job at a full-time job. That's why I have to keep going. How was the 30-year-old bubble? After all, the bubble of Japan has changed a lot. What will happen next? When you look at the data of Aoi Fudou, you can see that it is a 10-year cycle. Yes, it is. In the early days of the 70s and 80s, California had a lot of influence. When California was getting better, Aoi Fudou became better after 6 or 7 months. When California became bad, Aoi Fudou became bad after 6 or 7 months. In the 90s, Aoi Fudou entered Japan a lot. With the bubble of Japan, Aoi Fudou became popular. After that, Aoi Fudou was influenced by the Japanese economy. It took 15 years to recover. The 15-year cycle? Yes, it took 15 years. From 2005 to 1990, Aoi Fudou was a bubble. After 15 years, Aoi Fudou finally recovered. In 2008, Aoi Fudou was a bubble. It was a huge bubble. Our company is almost 50 years old. Yes, it is. It is a company that is well known to the local market. The company also makes various programs to help customers. Even if the general Fudou market is not good, for example, the seminar of buying a house for the first time. Thank you. When the government bought a house, there was a program called YOKUTOSHI HACSENDORU CREDIT. We made a program for the first time in our company. We made a program for the first time in YOKUTOSHI HACSENDORU CREDIT. When the government returned from YOKUTOSHI HACSENDORU CREDIT, we returned to YOKUTOSHI HACSENDORU CREDIT. That was the business. I see. It is a company that has been doing for a long time. There are various types of companies that can provide various programs. The customers of Kumiko-san are from Japan. They sell foreign goods, condoms, and houses. What kind of people do they have? More than Japanese customers, Japanese customers. There are Japanese people who live here. There are Japanese people living here. There are Japanese people living here. There are Japanese people who serve in Japan as well. So there are Japanese people who live in mainland Japan. There are also Japanese people who live in the mainland, and Japanese people living in mainland Japan and in China. That's right. So there are Japanese people who live here. Do you have a lot of Japanese customers who live here? That's right. There are about half of them. If you are still living in Japan, for example, you can spend your retirement time in Hawaii. If you have a condominium for that, or if you are regularly coming, you can buy it and stay here. I think there are still a lot of people who want to stay here. Do you have any advice for them? Yes, I have been living in Hawaii for 10 years. After retirement, I was lucky to be able to get a visa. I have been living in Hawaii for a long time. I have been dreaming of living in Hawaii. I have been living in Hawaii for 10 years. If I live in Hawaii for 10 years, I think I can get a visa even if I buy it. But if I have to live in Hawaii for 2 to 3 years, I think it is better to get a visa. Do you have any positive feelings for 10 years? Of course, I have a timing. If I buy it when the market is cheap, I might get a peak in a few years. I have a timing. If I live in Hawaii for 10 years, I might get a peak soon. If I live in Hawaii for 10 years, I might get a peak soon. I think I can get a good timing. I think I can get a good timing. I am not in Oahu now. I live in Kirauea, Big Island. I am in Oahu now. I am in Oahu now. I am in Oahu now. I am in Oahu now. Do you have any negative feelings for the life of your family? I have not got any negative feelings for the life of my family. Unfortunately, when Kazan exploded in Hawaii, I was touched that Kazan exploded in Hawaii. But there was a lot of people, and my agent told me. Is my agent going to be okay? Oh, I see. I will tell you all about it later. Because many people from the News Program But I think it's just a little bit of a calm feeling. But I think it's about the concern of the farmers and the gas. I think it's about the concern of the farmers and the gas. I think it's going to be a little more interesting in the future. So, are you still not quite affected by the situation in Hawaii? It doesn't affect a lot. Another thing I often hear is that in other places, such as condominiums or apartments, the value drops when you become a junior high school student. But in Honolulu or Hawaii, it's a little different. Is that so? It's a paradise. If you open the window, you can see the sea. You can see the ocean. You can see the diamond head. You can't buy such money. If you have it properly, even if the building is old, you can clean it up as much as you want. If you have such conditions, it's not 10 years ago, but 10 years later, the value will rise again. Don't worry about it. If you are thinking about buying it in the next 10 years, it's okay to buy it as it is. Also, if you are the person who speaks Japanese the most, I think there are some people who can speak English, but it's very complicated. The way you speak Japanese is different. I want you to have a good agent. What is the difference between Hawaii and other places? What is the difference? What is the difference? There are a lot of people who speak Japanese. There are a lot of people who speak Japanese. I thought experience and knowledge were important. Training is important these days. Experience, knowledge and training Each time you sell a product, there will be a different agent. It's different from the rental agent and an agent. There is a different S-Klow company. S-Klow company is different. It's a company with a different business, and it's different from inspectors. It's different every time. So it's your first experience. There are a lot of things like that, so I think it's really important to have a lot of experience. Do you keep up with the changes in your training? Yes. There is a lot of training. There is a time when you start right away with a license. But if you don't have a proper training, you'll be in trouble. So I train a lot. When the training is over, the coach or the sales manager will come up with a side-by-side plan. I have a contract with the sales manager and I have a contract with the sales manager. What should I do? Recently, there are a lot of offers in one of the books. So I don't have to decide what to do to get my offer. I don't have to decide what kind of offer to offer. The sales manager and the coach help me out. I think that's important. You've said that you have a lot of experience and knowledge. The training is also very important. I think that other companies like Locations have a team. Not only the team, but they also support people around them. That's what I'm looking for. I don't know if you're an inspector or a loan company. There are some people who don't know about escrow. There is a system in Japan. What is it? The escrow company is a company that goes between people who sell and buy. It's a company that follows the order. It's a company that goes between people who sell and buy. That's right. That's right. It's a company that does a lot of things. It's a company that checks if all the people who sell or buy are done. The money is not given directly to the person who buys it. It's definitely going to be escrow. I think that escrow is very important. After taking a break, I would like to talk a little more. I would like to take a break here. I think about all things energy. We talk about energy for the grid, energy for vehicles, energy in transportation, energy in maritime, energy in aviation. We have all kinds of things on our show, but we always focus on hydrogen here in Hawaii. Because it's my favorite thing. That's what I like to do. We talk about things that make a difference here in Hawaii, things that should be a big changer for Hawaii. We hope that you'll join us every Friday at noon on Stand the Energy Man. Take a look with us at new technologies and new thoughts on how we can get clean and green in Hawaii. Aloha. Aloha, I'm Kili Ikeena. I'm here every other week on Mondays at 2 o'clock p.m. on Think Tech Hawaii's Hawaii Together. In Hawaii Together, we talk with some of the most fascinating people in the islands about working together, working together for a better economy, government and society. We invite you into our conversation every other Monday at 2 p.m. on Think Tech Hawaii Broadcast Network. Join us for Hawaii Together. I'm Kili Ikeena. Aloha. We are back and we are live. I'm your host, Yukari Kunise. This is Konnichiwa, Hawaii. And we have guest, Kumiko Banz, Locations Realtor. We are live on Think Tech Hawaii. Hello, I'm Kumiko Banz, Locations Realtor. I'm here with Kumiko Banz, Locations Realtor. We are live on Think Tech Hawaii. Before we take a break, we have a difficult concept of escrow, wire and cellar. It's located in the middle of Uri-Tekaite. It's located in the middle of Uri-Tekaite. It's an American system. How do we move together? For example, wire and cellar deposit. We send it to the escrow. Then we have to transfer the money to the additional deposit. Then we send it to the escrow. We have to send the money to the escrow. We have to send the money to the escrow. Then we have to send the money to the escrow. We have to do various things. We have to send the money to Uri-Tekaite. We have to send the money to the escrow. Our gather money is secured. After we send the money to the escrow, we have to install the money to Uri-Tekaite. So, we can't do anything. If we send it to the escrow, For example, there is a loan on the sale of escrow products. Before the transaction is completed, you have to pay with the money you get from the company, and you have to pay the remaining money on the sale of escrow products. So if you buy it, you have to pay with the money you get from the company, and you have to get the right to buy it. You have to check all the escrow products, for example, child support was not paid, and you have to check all the escrow products. Who does that in Japan? In Japan, there are people who work for the company. Yes, there are people who work for the company. I see, I see. So if you want to buy escrow products from now on, you have to explain the system to the realtor. Yes, that's right. Also, what I often hear is that reverse mortgage is the opposite of mortgage. Reverse is the opposite of mortgage, right? What is it? Revenue loan. For example, there are people who are already paid here, Japanese people. Is that a loan that people can use? Reverse mortgage is a loan for the company. A loan for the company.  So there is a age limit. Yes, there is a condition. The age limit is more than 62 years old. After that, they own their own house and live there. That is the condition. Even if they have a loan, they can use it as a refinance to reverse mortgage. Originally, it was a home equity loan. If you sell all the loans and sell them, then only that amount will come in. That part is equity, but after all, there are people who are paid for the loan because they want to be a client. It's okay to have it, but it's getting smaller. It's almost the same. Yes, it is. Reverse mortgage is a normal loan. If you do a review of the documents, for example, if you make a loan of 20% of the capital, then the loan of 80% of the loan will come out. When the loan company finishes the transaction, they put it in the 80% screen, and then the person who bought it will pay for it. Reverse mortgage is the opposite. For example, the reverse mortgage of 500,000 dollars will come out. How do you want to get that 500,000 dollars? How do you want to get it? Who will get it? The person who owns the house. The person who owns the house and lives there. With reverse mortgage, they get 500,000 dollars. You can get 500,000 dollars at once, and from the loan company, they pay 500,000 dollars each month. The loan company sends 500,000 dollars each month. That's why they don't pay for it. The loan company sends 500,000 dollars each month. That's the reverse. Reverse mortgage is the reverse. You can use whatever money you have. You can go on a trip. You can give presents to the people who are here. Or you can use the money you have to pay for the caretaker. For example, the person who owns the house. You can use the money you have to pay for the caretaker. You can use the money you have to pay for it. But you can't get the money from the house. You can't get the money from the house. You must have a home to pay for the reverse mortgage. It should be made so the money leaves the house, but if you have all the money for it, it's okay to go on a trip with the money. You can get the money or you can pay for it. Finally, Of course, you have to reply. You have to do that. If you don't have a way to do it, if the person who took the reverse mortgage is gone, you can sell it and return the loan. You can sell it. That's the reason why you have to live there. If you can't live there, you can sell the property and return the loan. I see. It's a very attractive system for people who live in their homes over 62 years old. Yes. I helped out once. I lived in the town house in the town of Hawaii. I lived in Gofufu. I had to buy the land. I had to pay for the land, but the land was expensive. It was about $240,000.  I took my wife's name from Meiji. I took my 50-year-old's name, took the reverse mortgage, and paid for the land. You can do that. When my wife becomes 62 years old, you can return the loan. You can't return the loan for a long time. You can't return the loan for a long time. I see. You can do that. I see. If you live in Hawaii for a long time and have a house, and you have a lot of age, you can do that. Yes. I don't know if it's my parents, but I want to leave it to my children. There are people who are worried that they will lose something to give to their children. On the other hand, they can't take care of their parents. They can do what they want. There are people who don't have a wife. Yes. They can take money from the reverse mortgage. They can do whatever they want. They can return the loan to Japan. Yes, they can do that. When they need help, if they have money from the reverse mortgage, they can come and clean the house. They can cook for them. They don't have to worry about money. I see. We don't have much time left. Recently, even if you have lived in Hawaii for a long time, you have been able to return to Japan. I talked to Mr. Kumiko someday. Do you feel that there are more people like that? Yes. I didn't feel like that in the past 20 years. Recently? Yes. Recently, there were people who sold the house and returned to Japan. When they sold the house, do you think they could sell the house? We can sell the house, but it's hard to clean the house. Yes. They lived in the house for 40 to 50 years. For example, since they lost their parents, they have been living there for a long time. There are still a lot of people who have lost their parents. In the end, you have to live there until you return to Japan. When you make a contract with your wife, you have to be able to return to Japan for a long time. I see. After all, when you become a high school student, it's hard to move on as time goes by. Yes. So, you have to push your back. You have to hold your hand. People who are watching this, you have to clean the house from time to time. If you don't want to sell the house, you have to move on to the next generation. It's important to do that. I think it's a good opportunity to think about that. Also, if you want to buy the house, or if you want to buy it, or if you want to know about reverse mortgage, or if you want to contact your team, what kind of place do you want to go? Well, I have a lot of magazines. That's right. The number is<PHONE_NUMBER>. You can call anytime. Also, you can email me. It's your name. www.kumiko.banz.com www.locationsawai.com You can email me in Japanese. It's okay. Thank you. Also, people in Japan call you LINE, but you don't really use LINE. I see. However, when you're doing this job, it's really important to write and do it. You don't have to listen to what you do afterwards. That's right. You don't have to be told. Well, rather than using LINE or your phone, you have to leave it in the mail and it's really important. That's right. I have one more thing to say. From now on, I think there are people who want to study and become a realtor. Do you have any advice? Well, of course, I have to take a test in English. I have to take a test in school, and then I have to take a test in Hawaii. But in Japan, the number of people is really good. Half of them are account issues. Half are legal issues. There are legal issues. For legal issues, you can buy a book and write it in English. It's hard to write in English. So, you have to study it in English. And then, you don't have to go to school immediately. That's not a bubble. Well, it's time. Today, we have a lot of stories from Fudo from Hawaii from Banzu Kumiko. Thank you very much. Next time, we will invite Mr. Yaki Soba, who is called Takebayashi Atsushi, in Japan. Please look forward to it. Okay. We are out of time. Thank you, Ms. Kumiko Banz. I'm Yukari Kunise. This is Konnichiwa, Hawaii. On THINK THE KAWAII, talking with Kumiko Banz, partner of locations. Thank you for watching. And next week, next time, we will invite Atsushi Takebayashi, move for Japan. and stay tuned. Thank you for watching.