If everybody could start turning on their video, we've got about 45 seconds here. So we'll, that way we can get rolling right at 430, be respectful of everyone's time. Chair Weigl, if we can hold for one minute, we're having a technical issue on that. Absolutely, Mike. No big deal. Just give me the thumbs up when you're ready to go. All right, Chair Weigl, it looks like we are good to go on the side. Awesome. Thank you, Michelle. So that being said, looks like our technical issue has been solved. So with that, I'd like to call the meeting to order of the regularly scheduled meeting of the Design Review Board and remind everybody why we're here in this virtual setting. Pursuant to Government Code section 45953E, and the recommendation of the Health Officer of the County of Sonoma, Design Review Board members will be participating in this meeting via Zoom webinar. Members of the public can participate virtually by navigating to www.zoom.us slash join, or by making a toll-free phone call to<PHONE_NUMBER>. And for both of those options, using the meeting ID 817-1176-1047. Public access to the meeting is through the Zoom platform. You can provide comments during public comment periods by raising your hand. Additional information related to the meeting and its participation is available at the City's website at srcity.org slash Design Review Board. The meeting is being live-streamed on the City's website at santa-roza.legistar.com slash calendar. Click on the in-progress link to view the meeting. The meeting can also be viewed on Comcast Channel 28 and the City's YouTube channel, youtube.com slash City of Santa Rosa. Thank you. Thank you. Recording Secretary, may I please have a roll call? Yes, thank you. With the record reflect that all Board members are present with the exception of Vice Chair Hedgman. Thank you, Michelle. It looks like we don't have any minutes to approve, so we'll move on to item number three, which is public comment. This is a time where we, anyone and member of the public address matters not listed on the agenda, and purview of the Design Review Board. So at this time I will turn it over to the Recording Secretary and she will acknowledge if you have raised your hand on the Zoom platform and then you will have three minutes to speak. Okay, I am not seeing any hands raised at this time. Right, not seeing any hands raised at this time for public comment. We will close public comment. And we'll bring it back to the agenda, which is item number four, Board business, and item 4.1 is the statement of purpose. This is where we read the section of the zoning code defining what the Design Review Board's project review authority is within the city. Zoning code chapter 20-52030F project review. The review authority shall consider the location, design, site plan configuration, and the overall effect of the proposed project upon surrounding properties in the city in general. Review shall be conducted by comparing the proposed project to the general plan, any applicable specific plan, applicable zoning code standards and requirements, consistency of the project within the city's design guidelines, and the architectural criteria for special areas and other applicable city requirements, e.g. city policy statements and development plans. We'll now move to Board Member Reports. Does anybody have a Board Member Report this evening? All right, not seeing any. We'll actually go to item 4.3 other and actually tonight we have on the agenda of Vice Chair Election. We've recently reappointed chairs for all the different boards, and so that gives us the opportunity to do a Vice Chair Election. And so I'm looking for nominations from the floor for a new Vice Chair of Design Review Board. I would like to nominate my esteemed colleague, Michael Birch, for Vice Chairs. Cool. And so Michael, do you accept the nomination? Thank you and thank you, Board Member Sharon. I accept the nomination with heavy heart and a real sense of honor and responsibility tonight. Thanks Michael. So we also need a second to Board Member Sharon's motion there. Can I see a second for the nomination of Board Member Birch to the position of Vice Chair? I'll second that. Thanks Board Member Wolski. So having a nomination, an acceptance of the nomination and a second, we now move to discussion. On this item, does anybody have any items of discussion for the nomination of Board Member Birch to the position of Vice Chair? Cool. Seeing none. Let's just go to the, let's just go to a roll call vote here. So I'll turn it back over to the recording secretary for a vote. Okay, thank you so much. Board Member Birch. I do vote for myself, is that how this works? Yes. Okay, aye. Board Member McHugh. Aye. Board Member Sharon. Aye. Board Member Stapp. Aye. Board Member Stapp. Aye. And Chair Weichel. Aye. Okay, and that passes with six ayes with current Vice Chair Hedgepeth being absent. Thank you, recording secretary. So just, I just want to preface, end this. So it is not that we are trying to replace Board Member Hedgepeth in any way, shape or form. And I think it's a good question. I think it's a good question. And Michael's comment about heavy heart, it's that Warren has continued to have health problems. And so in an effort to help our board run more efficiently. We discussed that it would be prudent to elect a new Vice Chair in the interim here. And maybe he'll start to turn a corner and feel better, but in order for us to conduct business in an efficient manner, should I not be present at a meeting, it's important to have a Vice Chair that's available. And Michael has been chair of this board in the past, and he seemed like an easy slot in, given our current situation with unfortunate with Warren's portal. So I, so if anybody ever just have Warren in your thoughts, hopefully, you know, he'll, he'll feel your, your good thoughts, good vibrations, whatever with what's going on with him. So, with that, I think we'll go straight. Does anybody have anything else, Michael, did you want to add anything to that? No, happy to happy to jump in. And feel ready to go. We need to jump in and share a meeting. I am, I'm going to miss a couple of meetings in a row here due to some other public hearings and other cities, but after that, I'm, I'm on board. So, thank you. Thanks. And actually, you know, funny enough, in a more light tone, I'm actually going to miss a couple of meetings here in the next month or two due to my daughter's softball schedule. It's, it just kind of, I think works out that we're, we're doing this right now because of her, her, unfortunately, or fortunately, she has a couple of games on Thursday nights. So that's just the way it is. So we'll go to department reports now and we'll go to liaison Amy Nicholson. Thank you chair and good afternoon. I'll thank you for making those comments about former vice chair hedge path we certainly will miss having him in that role but congratulations to you vice chair birch were excited to have you fulfill that so I don't have any department reports this evening for you. Well, thanks, Amy. I appreciate that. Item number six statements of abstention. Are there any statements of abstention on the two scheduled items for this evening. 8.1 and 8.2. I apologize my children are getting home from school and of course, with that comes kind of general sense of mayhem and destruction in our house as anyone who has children may know. So no softball in the house. Exactly. No softball in the house. All right. So seeing no abstentions on the schedule items will move to item seven which has no items on it. So that will go to item eight for scheduled items, and we'll go to item 8.1, which is a concept design review for West Coast self storage Santa Rosa number two, 2875 so basketball road dr 21 dash 068. And I believe we will be turning it over to the project planner Adam Ross for a staff presentation. Thank you chair weigel members design of the designer reboard. I'm going to go ahead and open up the presentation right now. Well planner Ross does that we did want to let you know chair weigel we're having some issues in chamber with minutes so we're a little slow on the draw that's why, and nothing that will stop the meeting but I just want to give that heads up. And also to remind all the board members if you're not currently speaking to make sure to mute yourself after you're done speaking. Thanks Mike and no worries on the technical difficulties I think we're in an age that we, we all seem to be having those problems and meetings that you know I have client meetings all the time and it's like hey, you're still on mute, or, hey, we can't hear your speakers not working so I, I certainly can sympathize with those sorts of issues and problems that we tend to have with technology as of late. Yeah, it's not a big deal. We're working with it right now it's a potential network outage at city hall campus but we'll get it taken care of, and it won't stop the meeting that the encoder store. All right, cool. Thanks Mike we appreciate you. So, I guess we'll turn it over to planner Ross. And I guess Mike, I'll try to take, you know, like I always do I'll take notes with with a lot of the comments and if you guys need me to kind of summarize that. I'll send an email off to Michelle or yourself at the end of the meeting. I'm more than happy to do that. If that'll help as well. Yes, that would be great. Okay, so we'll turn it over to Adam for a staff presentation. Great. Thank you. So this is West Coast self storage Santa Rosa is number two this is their second proposal in the city. This is the concept designer view. Review for the project. The site is located at 2875 surpassable road. So the this is for a self storage facility. It's a three story structure. There's 628 self storage units. It's approximately 62,000 square feet total with an approximate 20,300 square foot building footprint. The required entitlements for this due to its location in the zoning district is just designer view with the designer view board so it'll come back to the board at a later date for the formal major designer view. So here's the site currently as you can see it's partially paved. Maybe there was something there previously staff hasn't gone into that deep of a dive at this point but it's currently a vacant site to the left of the screen is a multifamily residential use zoning district I should say surrounded by commercial and office uses along the road. So the general plan land use designation is light industry, the zoning is light industrial, and here's a better representation of what's surrounding the site. So we have low density residential to the north with a light industrial so this is actually zoning designation is light industrial, and then medium density, and then business park correction is across the street is business park zoning that's typically for office uses and commercial uses supporting office, larger office, and, and other small types of business kind of campuses. So here's a site plan of the site. Here's the site plan so here's the basketball road on the right. So here's the basketball road. Here, there's an entrance from the basketball road and exit on to Britain Lane. I think it's pronounced pertain it might be pronounced Britain, but there are two teams so there's parking on the. So if I'm looking at this to the left is north so on the east side of the parking of the site plan you have parking supporting the use to the parking spaces are considered and based for larger trucks for any individuals that that they need that they see fit, you have landscaping setbacks that comply with the zoning code standards, both on the Britain Lane side and the sabbatical road frontage, and the office for the use is facing sabbatical road. It is secured via mechanical gate, which would require codes all at the applicants kind of go into a bit more with that with their presentation as well. And the project has already been reviewed with fire and has been agreed upon that it can be properly conditioned to comply with fire access requirements. So here's some elevations for your review, I'll let the applicant team kind of go a bit more into it with their presentation. So here's some elevations and some 3D renderings, and then the conceptual landscape plan. As you can see it is somewhat robust in the landscaping surrounding the site, which is a requirement by specific to self storage units. So with the public noticing no comments have been received as part of this, this project, or this concept design review I should say, because it is under secret is not a project. So, it's a general, it doesn't meet the definition of a project under 15378 per sequel and it is common sense. It's not exemption or not exemption or common sense that it would just not have an impact on the environment. Now, it will be analyzed under sequel for the, for the major designer view portion of the project. So with that the recommendation is that the applicant and the planning and economic development department are requesting that the designer view board provide comments and direction for the West Coast self storage Santa Rosa number two project. Complete staffs presentation, I do have the applicants presentation to share as well as soon as you would like. Thanks Adam, I'd love to go straight to the applicant presentation. And then we'll do kind of our public comment component after that. And then I'll turn it back to the board for questions and comments. So, if we could just go straight to the applicant presentation that'd be great. Sure. Coming right up. Yeah. And so, Mike and Michelle if you guys could work on getting the applicant team. They're speaking privileges that would be fantastic so the applicants on this project could raise your hands. And our illustrious recording secretary and tech support will will get you hooked up and ready to go to speak. Great Robin and Steve we've given you permission to speak if you want to look like you're already unmuted so you can just start speaking when you're ready. All right, this is high can you guys hear me. Yes, we can. Oh great. So this is Robin Murphy Jackson main architecture. I'll kind of go through briefly Adam did a pretty comprehensive review so I'm not going to go over things that he already discussed about neighborhood zoning. Adam, if you could move the head and the slides here. I want to get to a floor plan site plan if possible. One more. One thing you'll notice here that so this 3d model view shows relative shows flat roofs at the two corners. And what the prior design we had that we submitted to the city had sloped roofs we subsequent to that submittal we we decided they just weren't working and didn't feel like they fit the building massing so we've turned them into tower elements with flat roofs and I think it's more successful but we look for your input on that. This view really shows comprehensively what's going on in the more complex part of the site. Adam mentioned the security fence that fence isolates the loading area right there. And there's another one correspondingly on the northwest corner that isolates a fire lane. And what that does is it for that piece of the building is after hours is closed off, but it's primarily shut most of the time it would be operable to tenants who have a security code to get in and use the loading bay or use the perimeter loading areas but most of it is tucked away from the street on purpose so that it isn't facing the street, and we try to organize the tower elements so that they're focused on the street corners and on the office and that office is what we're looking at right there. We use transparency at the corners to kind of offset some of the opaqueness of the rest of the building. We don't feel it's appropriate to try to make these buildings look like office buildings or multi family apartments. They are storage buildings and we want them to explain that in their street presence through the transparency at the corners. We're using a few durable materials, metal siding primarily and masonry at the base. And it's used without trying to be too busy about it. We use three or four different color material combinations and use them throughout the building. There's generous landscaping along Sebastopol, which you see here. And Adam, I think there's a plan coming up here that I'd like to mention. Yeah, so this plan I just wanted to point out that it's hard to read that's pixelated here but on the right which is parallel to Sebastopol, we have a 43 foot wide dedication that we are obligated to provide to to expand Sebastopol which we are doing and the civil engineer is on this call and she can talk about that at length if you're interested. Then on top of that, because of our proximity to the multi family zone the R 318 across Britain. We have a 25 foot eight setback from the, from the back of the curb, which is essentially accommodates a sidewalk and a 20, 20 foot setback on top of that. So that's the landscape area we just saw in the view before. And, you know, I guess you can see the in this view of the fire line wrapping around the building. It's, you know it's compact at one point we added two buildings that we were considering for this project than the single story building being on the top of this view which is on the east, and then the three story building where it is located here. So we determined through some due diligence with the planner that we needed to provide this 20 foot building setback along Sebastopol. We consolidated this into one building and we feel this is a more successful solution, keeping the keeping it to one single multi story building. Let's go to the next slide please. Here's just a view showing the inner workings of the building with the office and the elevators and the, and the internal circulation. This is conceptual but you know, most of this is internal shows you how the loading works we've checked that the maneuvering and the accessible stall and the another visitor stall are outside of the security gate on purpose so that non people who are not necessarily customers yet can come without having to go through that security gate. And then on the other side of it, we have two loading stalls and another parking stall. Next slide. This is just a landscape plan I think we've kind of discussed this we can go over if you have specific questions we can talk about that. Next slide please. Again landscape in more detail there's a lot going on and on both frontages, trying to be a good neighbor, greening up the side of the, the both street frontages and along the north property line which is on the left in this view. Next slide. These are just some renderings and again, illustrating that we no longer have the peaked roofs that we had in the original views that you just looked at. Next slide please. And some elevations that talk about materials and what the finishes are in profiles. Next slide. This is the primary view and Sebastian poll on the top. And on the bottom is the north elevation which faces the industrial lot to the north. Next slide slide. That might be it. I think that's it. So if we could just go back to maybe this the site plan view that's maybe the best Steve did you want to add anything to that discussion. Thank you, Robin that's a good overall presentation and between the two presentations I think we've kind of covered it and would like to kind of open it for discussion. All right. So, by the way, Steve, could you just give us your full name and your relationship to the project please for the for the record. Sure. Steve Tang me T a N G and E Y. I'm the developer of the project and principle of West Coast self storage. Perfect thanks Steve appreciate you. I think what we'll do now is we'll go to public comment and so this is a concept item and we do like to afford the public. The chance to speak on concept items because then that eventually you know, inevitably leads to maybe a question or two from the board if there are public comments so if we could have the three applicants please lower your hands on the Zoom platform that'd be great. And then I'm going to turn it over to the recording secretary here to to proceed with public comment so again, let's open up public comment. I'm going to turn it over to Michelle and let her manage any potential raised hands on the zoom platform. Thank you so much chair wego. I am currently not seeing any hands raised for public comment. All right so seeing no raised hands for public comment. Let's just go through this real quick. Adam mentioned we didn't receive any emails or anything. We don't have any voicemails or other late correspondence as of the meet the meeting today correct. Correct. All right, then let's close public comment on the site and bring it back to the board. And we'll just go through the board for questions of both staff and the applicant of this project questions, not comments. Please, and we'll go from there so let's kick it off. And we'll put board members staff in the hot seat today questions of staff in the applicant. So sure. Robin, thank you for focusing on the on the landscape elements. And you mentioned that along the residential sides. There was you were paying special attention, which is great to hear, because they, especially that building. I think it's I think it's on the west side it's in the back it's that that one story house that butts right up against the site. Can you say more about what's happening on that back fence right next to right next to the residents from a landscaping and a green screen perspective. All right. Can you hear me now. Okay, great. The, yeah, this is the best view for it I suppose that the odd weird thing about this is our multifamily zone which is our 318 is a cross pertain, which is west of the site. And there is a residence over there. The, the 20 foot setback you would think would, would be on on this side of the street would be facing this residential zone, but it's actually geared to the front yard, and the front yard is the main entry and the main street that it's on which is which is a residential. So that's where the 20 foot buffer is. And so that's, you know, we've set the building back accordingly. We set the building back against, retain as well, according to the zoning envelope, and we've provided significant landscaping on both sides to to address that that adjacency. So that's really our liberty to talk about the plant species. I'm sorry, and I'm not the landscape architect, but I think we've done a good job of not only addressing street improvements along Sebastopol which includes some trees as you can know, but also some shrubs and some landscaping around the perimeter on both this view, which is where that 20 foot setback is imposed, as well as retain which you can see in this view there to give a little bit of white space relief from the adjacent multifamily resident residents. And as I think as Adam mentioned, surrounding on all the other sides, it's either business park or light industrial. So those are the two areas that we're heavily landscaping and we're, you know, it's appropriate because those are the streets we're up against as well in this quarter lot. Thank you. Any other questions? No, thank you. All right, board members Sharon. Any questions. Kind of related to board members steps question. And one thing you mentioned Robin, with the frontage on Sebastopol Road, there's the setback and I was just trying to find the actual setback. Are you actually is that building bumping up against that 20 foot setback that you have. Is it pushed to the south as much as possible or is it generously setback. I just, I'm not able to find that right. Yeah, yeah, I'm sorry that the images in this set are pixelated. If you could read it I have a version I have on my computer I'm looking at. I have it pulled up here too. We should all have them pull up so you can tell us the page number. Yeah. The actual CD set. So I don't know that you guys have access to it but it is the drawing we were just looking at Adam had it up a minute, a moment ago. Yeah, that one. If you could read that dimension on the bottom there. Towards on retain it says 20 feet. Right there. Yep, right there. So there's a 20 foot dimension. And then there's a 20 foot dimension and an eight inch dimension that that dash dot dot line is the new dedication line. You can see where the original and the current site or property line is. It's way over there on on the south right on the on the far right there, and we're moving it all we're moving it over 43 feet and providing driving lanes and parking lanes and, and, and, and then on top of that inside of the line we're providing the sidewalk. That's why we have a total from that new dedication line 25 foot eight is is the dimension we have to the building so we yes we are up against the setback of 20 feet, but it's taken from the back of the sidewalk so it's, it's, it's five feet plus eight feet plus 20 feet, and I'm sorry I said six feet just now on the side. Yeah, I mentioned because that's what it says that is not correct. It's five feet. Sorry about that. Okay. In terms of potentially moving the building is sort of where we're thinking there, is there any kind of leeway to be moving towards the south towards the best bull road, or. Yeah, that's one of the questions because you explained that and Adam, yeah, I think you can. Yeah, later Ross so board member Sharon. Yeah so so pursuant to the zoning code, specific for storage, self storage buildings. So we have to have a 20 foot setback from front setback when adjacent to a residential zoning district or residential use in this case, even though Britain Lane is to the west of the property it's still considered that we have a 20 foot setback from minimum setback from special road and that's measured from the back of the back of the curve. Sorry back of the sidewalk. Okay, that was yeah great that was the exact dimension I was looking for so 20 foot from the back of the sidewalk and so right now we're 25 eight from the back of the sidewalk or 25 eight from the new property line and that the five foot eight that's on top of the 20 feet accommodates the curb and the sidewalk. Okay, and so we are 20 feet from the back of the sidewalk. Correct. Perfect. So maximizing the space that's cool. Yeah I just wanted to verify and clarify that so thank you, Robin and thank you planner Ross, and I'll do it for my questions thanks. Thank you. Thanks, I'm actually going to piggyback on Adam's question here real quick. So the, I guess what's unique here is this parcel will get developed. It's street right of way will be increased as part of that development. The adjacent parcels both to the east and to the west do not have well actually it looks like the one of them to the west does the, the church, the base side church I guess has it. So, how is the city going to, I guess, can, are we going to continue to wait for this incremental development along sabbatical to increase the traffic right of way because I know the right of way opens up. I guess at the next intersection to the east. I'm just curious, kind of how the city is planning on that component. Good question. In my conversations with engine, the engineering development services division. It is case by case so they will widen it for this property frontage, and then get everything else as, as new developments proposed at these locations. Well, thanks. That's that's kind of what I thought that I, you know, because if anybody's driven on sabbatical road in this area if you're familiar, it kind of, it kind of does this business, a lot where it kind of goes down to two lanes opens up to three lanes goes down to two lanes open up opens up to five lanes kind of thing. Anyway, so I decided to ask. Okay, a board member will ski your questions of staff. I don't have any questions. Thank you. Thanks. She left board member McHugh any questions of staff or the applicant. Actually, I think you have got my question and answer, as I was concerned about, you know, I'm just saying that if the developer is going to do curb gutters and sidewalks wide in the street. Is that correct. The staff. Yes, that is correct. And that's incremental down sabbatical road. As in, they'll do their frontage improvements, a new development saves slightly across. So if they were to redevelop the property, the residential residentially zone property across pretend lane. That's when they would get that portion widened as well. So if that's what you mean by incrementally then then yes, that is right. Okay, and so if I'm understanding you correctly then you're depending upon the developers on sabbatical road to this project or any other project to improve that that street. Is that correct. That is correct. Okay. And is that city policy or is that the city engineer or something. How does that all go together. Yeah, so there's this, I don't want to say too much and maybe say the wrong thing but I can say what I what I think I know, which is as new projects are proposed, you would do the right of way improvements. There's a certain threshold of financial figure that would that would trigger that it's pretty low in terms of the cost of actual construction. So, so that's when the city gets those improvements put in is each it's on the, it's on the, the responsibility of each developer to come in and input and put in those new public right of way improvements which are, you know, widening the street, putting in a new curbing gutter. If there's existing upgrading to meet whatever current standards are are established and in the, the city's code is that in that city ordinance. I believe so, yes. Okay, thank you. Michelle looks like maybe Steve has a comment on that one. I just saw him raise his hand. You should have a prompt allowing you to unmute. I do. Now, thank you. Well, I did but it kind of got answered got addressed. No need to comment at this point. We're under grounding the utilities across that frontage as well as well that's one of the requirements since it's, it's quite a nice street improvement and you're right it seems to be happening on a specific case basis as lots individual lots redevelop up and down Sebastopol road. I think there's a dozen or so cases of improved widened streets, Sebastopol road and and we'll add one more to it. Thanks Steve newly elected Vice Chair birch do you have any questions of staff. Nope, not at this time. All right, so we'll bring it back. Yeah. I've got one since we're kind of piggybacking here was going to bring it up in my comments but it's also kind of a question related to the roadway improvements to, to continue with pertain lane also. You know, but what comment was going to be that you're seeing that there's no extension of any sidewalk or anything pertain is a does that access down at the end of the way to Joe Radota. There's a lot of traffic behind it, but if you know there was any sidewalk improvement north on pertain lane that would be sort of a sidewalk to know where, but I was just wondering. Is there any requirement on kind of a non arterial theater road going up pertain. It's more of a question for staff. Yeah, so it just be along whatever the property frontage is I don't have the exact standards for pretend lane, as far as you know the sort of sidewalk with or curb or gutter. They're rendering show that it doesn't have a sidewalk. But that could be changed with whatever engineering requires when we get the formal submittal. Yeah, so if there is a requirement, okay if there is a requirement then engineering will pop it in there from. Okay, because yeah because I mean when I say sort of sidewalk to know where he looked down pertain at the. The residents is there there's no sidewalks going up and up the road so it'd be sort of to know where but since we're talking about incremental roadway improvements then having said incremental sidewalk improvement. This could be the first even if it takes decades to move down pertain lane. This provides, you know, and it can look up improvement, but good to know that it could be on the city's plate, since we are just in concept now. Okay, yeah, thanks for the answer. No problem. All right, so let's bring it back to the board for comments. Oh, Steve, did you have another thought. Or did you just forget to lower your hand. I did. Go ahead. No, you forgot to lower your hand. All right, cool. All right, let's bring it back to the board for comments on the project. I was just remembering something about this particular parcel. This was one of the first parcels that I ever reviewed when I joined design review board like four and a half or five years ago. I think Michael may remember this, but I think it was a proposed cannabis facility I think years ago so it's interesting now that it's a self storage facility. Quite decorative at that if I remember right it was really quite an arch, it was going to be an architectural jam without windows. Yeah, yeah, the cannabis facility. Yeah, so anyway, just fun little factoid for everybody. I've already been here once upon a time. So anyway, let's bring it back for comments from the board and I'd like to go to board members Sharon for the hot seat for comments. And I'm going to try to take notes as best I can. Thank you for a great conceptual package. And thank you, staff for presenting the background and particulars for us. Again, another quality design from you guys thank you for for bringing this to us. And similar to the one you presented weeks ago. Yeah, I think it would be a good use of the site I think even more being a good use of the site I think I appreciate you really emphasize being good neighbors and emphasizing the improvements to this stretch of road. Yeah, as Drew mentioned this has been, you know, in potential development for a while and so to see something actually being done is a great sign and to see an applicant who really wants to maximize being good neighbors and adding to the amenities on the road is a positive sign I think you guys can continue with that as you're moving through your design development. The building itself in similar to the to your, your submittal. It is a, you know, it is what is utilitarian building but it's, it's well done, it's tasteful, it's clean. So if you are doing. You're on the right track with with your uses of having the potential noisier side of things going along with the potential noisier side of the property, you're not going along the retain land but you're going to where there are other industrial or at least businesses on that side. So, thank you for that. Yeah, I think that the the robust landscape is great. One, because, you know, being a landscape architect LHC robust landscapes, but you guys are just, again, being good neighbors, beautifying and really adding to the to the site. But yeah, my question and I'm glad the board was that brought up the question about the north end of the site and the kind of, if there was hedging if there was treatment for that resident that so residents that's over there. And I wanted to hear more about, you know, sort of really diving into those particulars about setbacks to see if there's any way to squeeze any more space over there. Because you have really robust landscaping around the front of the site and the west side along retain. It's not necessarily so important to have it along the east side of the site again that's where the more industrial side of things are, but it would be nice to see a little more. You know, you can't can just do separation but screening for the residents over there to have something that was more, you know, you've got every flowering vines along the fence on the east side of the site but the north treatment that you have the in your landscape it's called out as vegetated swale so low growing things potentially not even shrubby. And no vines that I can see called out. There's rose actually. I'm seeing this now here. Yeah, so the roses are good but to see something that is taller and provides really a visual screening, you have the trees there but they're spaced pretty far apart. And to figure out something that maybe that's more a more, you know, densify that hedgerow in a way not make a hedgerow but densify that that that la along there to create this this pathway. Along the back where people will be driving through, and it's right on the other side of the fence from the residents so. And that's where I was wondering if you could just you know if you could squeeze out just a couple more feet, you could get more things in there to make it both varied. When you're looking at it, you know, in section view. So you have variation in heights, but then also in the width and the plan view you have more, you can play with things a little bit more and have the illusion of space. So there's any way to squeeze anymore out there, or to densify kind of wall or to add, you know, party your vines with your fence in there. We don't know what your fencing is going to be yet. Also going to be really interesting to see what that's going to be with the treatment is on that side. And even on the east side, but kudos for well thought out concept. And, again, really love the, the site improvements that you're doing. And I'll be interested to hear what the city as if they have any requirements for pertain lane in terms of sidewalk, but you know, as I said, you know, could be an incremental improvement. But it is also like at the moment, and in the short term, it's sidewalk to nowhere. But we'll see what the city says in terms of requirements. But thanks for work on sabbath school road. And yeah, thank you for the concept. All right. Steve, I keep seeing your hand go up and down so I think I'll say this. So we'll wrap up all the comments and then at the end, we'll turn it back over to you and we'll kind of say hey at any of these comments. Are you available today? You know, are you seeing any sort of hiccups, whether, you know, financial design wise, whatever. We'll have a quick conversation about that. We'll just do that at the end. So just wanted to let you know, because I keep seeing your hand kind of go up and down there in the participants box. So anyway, just want to let you know we'll do it at the end. So that being said, thanks, Adam, and we'll go to board member Wolski for her comments on the project. Thank you. So, for me, I like the treatment on that corner where the office is. I think that helps to differentiate it and give the building facade a little more interest. There was, in one of the renderings that kind of showed a monument sign, there was some bright yellow there. And I think I personally like to see a little bit more color, a little brighter color. So if that could be incorporated, I think that for me would be a good idea. I like all the landscaping. Elevation of concern for me was the north elevation. Maybe there's just not enough visual interest on that elevation. It just comes across as pretty flat. And I think the building is around 30 feet tall. So for the neighbors and people in the back that will create quite a visual impact. Let's see anything else. I do like that you've extended the towers higher. I think that helps for the design of the building. And I'm going to keep saying this with all the storage unit, self storage projects. The zoning code allows for a caretaker unit to be added and this is plumbed with restrooms. So I would appreciate if a caretaker unit was provided. I've heard before that may not be needed for security, but I think it was Vice Chair Birch who mentioned it's also a benefit for workforce housing. So that is it for my comments. Thank you. Thanks Sheila and we'll go to board member step now for his comments. I have anything to add to the comments that my colleagues have made other than emphasize that the building and it's an attractive treatment for this kind of building and it's going to fit in well, especially with on the road side of the street. And then as we as we've mentioned just that that north side that that backside of the building, which is a adjacent to that that that residential area. If there could be some some additional attention paid to green screening or somehow making that back facade. So that would be a little bit more attractive from that perspective. That would be that would be beneficial, but otherwise a really nice, a really nice treatment. Thank you. Hey, thank you board member step board member McEw any comments. I also support doing something with the north elevation. I don't know exactly what it's somehow to make that more attractive.  I like the conceptual design though and I like the, the color scheme. I think that's really nice. I think that's one of the things that that I'm concerned about. And it doesn't have anything really to do with this particular project but it does in the sense that I'm just getting a little concerned about the fact that the city requires developers to do curb gutters and sidewalks and spend money on projects that are. That's a lot anyway. I mean, we had issue with this stony point flats. I am, and I know staff, you're doing what you're, what you're obligated to do, but this is just, it's just irritating.  I think that's a whole lot of difficulty with the approach the city takes with respect to street improvements. So, want to get that on the record, and, and I will conclude my comments with that. Thanks john appreciate you. Yeah, the street improvement things kind of an interesting bugaboo in a way, you know, we don't have any, you know, purview necessarily over that but I think when you look at kind of the overall design of a street improvement right of way or whatever. You know I think that's where I think kind of the level of expertise of this particular board may come into play in that, you know you have to start looking at things holistically about how something is improved whether that's through the right of way adjustments, or perhaps through, you know, I don't know traffic study or something like that so it is kind of intertwined in a way with design review. I think that's one of the land use concern and also kind of a city policy. So it's a it's one of those kind of spaghetti things I think but we find ourselves in from time to time on this board so anyway, with that, I will turn it over to great thank you yeah very supportive of the project again. Another good project from this team. Thoughtful and you know again, I've actually learned a lot about self storage and don't have the same kinds of questions that I have because this is one of the groups that's been able to explain why it doesn't require so many parking spaces and they get the most utility out of the site and so that's great. I have to say that I did when we got the applicant presentation yesterday or day before as late correspondence the renderings were in there, and I immediately jumped to the landscape plans and sort of did my visual. I'm not an architect, a landscape architect, but I did my visual. It looks like they really line up so the promise of the renderings looks very realistic which I thought was was great. I have concerns about the north, the north side of the building as well. And I think that a couple of things the planting ideas that Adam talked about what the fencing is there and will certainly you know in terms of a final design review for a public action. The board action will will need details of the fencing and I think a combination of the details of the fencing and some updates to that landscape that would create a visual block from from the adjacent property are great. I'm also, I don't believe I saw the lighting plan and I can't really go check today because with with a technical glitch here I'm just on the iPad, instead of having my computer with me as well. But a lighting plan is also going to tell something about that relationship for the property on the north, just a bit what fixtures are at that end, how high are they, how do they hit the ground so that the lighting plan and the photometric study, which are I believe required for the final action would be important to have and again that'll be part of assessing how the north end of the property and the building interact with the neighbor at night. And as far as the treatment of the end of the building, you know, I'm not sure we've, we've had another project that we were going to throw a couple of windows on to and that would look really strange on this huge facade. It may be some color blocking that matches up with some of the vertical, you know, whites and grays and such that are on the front of the building. It may not be something as dramatic as even articulation in planes but it may just be some really interesting color blocking or a variation that diminishes the impact of the north end of the building. So without, you know, we'll leave it to leave it to you guys, you're the experts and I know that you probably work with projects and many places where you have different requirements for different sides of the buildings. I think this board's reaction really seems to be that there is an interaction with residential property at that north end and we need to see just a little bit more. So as far as the street improvement comment goes, I'm just going to take two minutes to share that, you know, in most jurisdictions, we have developers doing, making significant improvements to street, to street scapes, to curbing gutter and sidewalk and landscape areas. It's really a really very typical normal thing that happens. Is it right wrong or otherwise? I can't say it is, you know, developers enjoy benefit from the property. If you don't do the work at this time, it can be really, it can be really create an interesting situation. And for anybody who drives North Street north of college, we have two projects side by side project. It's a three-story apartment project that we approved about six or seven years ago, worn hedge path design with nice upturned roof. They were required at that time to make the improvement to the new dedication line. So the sidewalk curbing gutter is done, their landscape is done to a level that they won't, that will be taken away in the dedication, but the city required them to do the landscape to that point. Parcel to the north of that, it's developed much earlier with no requirement to make the improvement, but they couldn't, but they couldn't do, they couldn't develop anything in it. So it's a huge dirt lot behind these buildings. And I think that, you know, in the short-term, long-term game of what parcels get developed and that sort of thing, there is a real benefit to the city as in the appearance of the city for all of us driving up and down sabastical road that these do get done and that we don't have any left behind because the North Street situation is just sort of a blighted spot on the street. It was a lay down yard for the last road project is essentially what it was. So anyway, that's my two cents on that and supportive of the project and look forward to seeing it back. Thank you. Thanks, Michael. And I actually only have, I agree with everybody else. Great comments. I took a lot of notes. The one thing that I would actually, I haven't heard or perhaps might disagree with is I actually like this sloped kind of tower element. And the reason why is because this project is flanked by buildings that have gable roofs and things, whereas the Piner Road project that we just approved a couple of months ago last month was flanked by a lot of kind of industrial flat roofed buildings. And so I think from a vernacular perspective, those little kind of angle slopes make a little bit more sense in this context than they would, you know, I think somewhere and so and I think it brings down the scale, just a scoosh on this project but then again if you're struggling with, you know, screening HVAC units which I think you might be I think then that may be, you know, a discussion point at our next, at the next time we see your project but that would be my only additional comment between what I heard from everybody else. And I'm going to write that down real quick in my notes and then we'll bring it back to the applicant for any questions of any of the comments. One second to write that down. So I took a lot of notes and so we'll turn it back over to Steve and his team, if they've gotten questions of the board. If they heard anything tonight that that, you know, maybe is undoable for whatever reason we'd love to hear that feedback and we'll go from there so Steve, I think you'll have permission to speak now. All right, you can hear me. We can thanks. Yeah. So I hear the comments, a lot of focus on on the north end, and that's understandable. It is kind of the back of the building the way we have it designed right now. We will come back when we submit with some improvements on the north end. There is a solid fence. Currently, I'm assuming it's a fence installed by that homeowner originally. We would typically work with them to reconstruct if it's weathered out and old, you know, a better new fence at our cost. But it is currently a solid fence and I would expect and assume they would want it to stay that way, but we would work with that homeowner in any event. We originally put this project together with less than a 20 foot setback in the front. I'm assuming that it was the side of the property of cross retain lane that actually triggered that 20 foot setback. We originally had less, and we had more in the back on the north side. And we're kind of pushed, I guess, to the back by the requirements in the front. If there's any leeway, the city can kind of a question for staff, Adam. We would be happy to use to be less than 20 through variance process or whatever we would be happy to spend that by increasing the landscaping in the back. Our building is kind of already minimal. And the cost of being a corner a lot with underground utilities and paving and rearranged storm drain lines, etc. So I think the front yard improvements on this on this property and it's, it's difficult to shrink the building since that's the revenue side of the equation. But we're happy to increase the landscaping in the back if the building is sort of movable toward the front. Thanks, Stephen. And I think what from what I'm hearing from staff, what it sounds like to me is that that new that new lines a little immovable. The direction from the board would be to go back with your architect and your landscape architect and explore plantings that could fit within six inches or eight inches or whatever kind of works in that zone that makes may start to create sort of hedging or some sort of kind of screen element. I think if enlargement is not an option, what I heard from pretty much everybody was because there is a substantial residential area behind the project that some sort of, you know, a screening in the in a landscape element is preferred. And so we're going to leave it to you guys to figure out what solution works for that. In terms of doing it within a footprint that you kind of have. I think, you know, I would, I would say, don't try to move the building right don't try to shrink the building square footage. You've, you've, you've kind of got it at a square footage that works for you that gets all your parts and pieces together in terms of, you know, the revenue generation component that you're looking for. So I think the direction from the board is primarily let's just evaluate what can happen there, given the confines you have and get get the design team to be a little creative with it. Does that make sense. And, you know, Reinhardt our landscape architect is on the line. So he's here in all this firsthand, and we'll come back with something along those lines. Perfect. Quick question related to that. I was just looking for a dimension on that that kind of planter strip there. And you said you had the construction set. Yeah, I think that's a good one on our project said just, I'm just curious, you know, it's looks to be pretty small. It's about five feet. It's five feet. It's about five feet, but I want to point out that preliminarily we're using it for as a kind of a swale. So that kind of limits what we can put in there unless we can figure out a different place for that purpose. So you're using it as your, your dedicated stormwater swale. Yeah, and perhaps Monica might be able to speak more clearly about what our options are with that. Because, yeah, because you do have buyer, more other buyer retention. We're on the wrapping around the pertain side and in the front but I see, you know, I know that that that is a constraint is what you can plant in a swale. Certain things in there and still call the swale. Yeah, and yeah, again, this is, you know, I see Monica you have your hand up from the landscape side of things. Simple. Oh, oh, excuse me. She has the ability. Yeah, Adam, let's grant Monica Shaw the ability to talk please. Monica, you should have a prompt. Hello. Hello. Hi, this is Monica shot. You hear me. Again, thank you. Hi everyone. Yeah, so that that's real is a five foot wide. Long, well it's about 180 feet long, and it is dedicated for the portion of the stormwater treatment. It basically will call it's proposed to collect that road that's adjacent to it between the building and the fell. So there are trees plant in within that well but I agree that it may have some limitations on what what can be planted in terms of screening. Sure. And I, and I think one thing to think about is maybe if that swell area if you know how much you actually need to fit with the, the planning requirements and where you can potentially rearrange that so you can dedicate that to not being stormwater treatment, but being thought of more as your backup house there because you know I'm looking at this the streetscape and street view of that area. It's, it's, that's good. It's right in that neighbor's backyard. And so, if you really need to re think of the plantings and to have it not be stormwater treatment area. If it's possible to move it to then switch it into thinking of it as more of the vegetative buffer. So, yeah, currently the way it is proposed is that road will just sheet flow into that fell. If we have to relocate that that square footage into perhaps on the west side, along Britain and we could have increased the size of the bi retention facility. It's just, it would just mean that we will have to collect all that run off from the street into the eyes and strong brains and routed over to the bi retention which would add cost, of course, to the project. Yeah, and that's, that's the priorities and as Drew mentioned, that's the, so where your, your team's creativity and know how it really comes into play and look forward to seeing what you guys come up with. But those are just our thoughts. Yeah, thanks, Adam. It looks like we got one more question from Steve. And so we'll go to Steve Steve it looks like you can talk to the lower my hand again. Sorry. Oh, no worries. So, I think that's all we've got from the board does anybody have any final thoughts, colors, layout north elevation plantings. No. I'm going to send off this type of list I have them send it off to the recording secretary and our staff liaison and hopefully we can get that incorporated into the minutes for you guys. And hopefully we look forward to seeing you sooner rather than later. Do you guys have any, any other comments from the applicant team. Cool. Thanks so much, Steve and your team we appreciate you coming back and bringing a good quality project to us to comment on so again we'll help to see you soon. Thanks. So we're going to move on to item 8.2 now. Which is a Giffen building one, which is a concept designer view at 2715 Giffen Avenue. Dr 22 dash 004. And we're going to turn it over to project planner Monet Shekali. I hope I got it right to get it right. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you chair for introducing this project and put it into work members. I'm going to share my screen right now and turn the camera off. Okay, so I'm sorry the next page. So the project before each day is a concept design review for the future development of a new two story approximately 38,000 square foot industrial building that will be used for cannabis uses. The neighborhood context map, as you can see this area has some large industrial buildings with lots of surface parking spaces and some vacant lots. The closest residential uses are located on the northeast side of the parcel as you can see here they are all single family dwelling units. And here is a closer aerial view of the project site, as it is today. The red square rectangular is where the proposed building is going to be placed. I believe a few years ago there was another building there, which the owner demolished it and now they are proposing a new building at the same location. This site is pretty flat and already developed with number of industrial buildings. The general plan land use and zone the project site is zone like industrial and the general plan land use designation is general industry. The current project before use a concept design review and the applicant has to come back in the major design review because what they are proposing is more than 10,000 square foot square feet or more in the floor area. So here are some pictures of the existing lot. As you can see the slot as I mentioned also is pretty flat and there are no trees at this area, and this site is protected by 12 foot tall security fence. The proposed building will be an addition to the existing campus that already has six warehouses or industrial buildings with small some small accessory structures. This site plan that shows location of the proposed building on the lower right side. And here is a proposed site plan. It shows the existing the proposed building with the new driving and new swing gate on the right side. The proposed building would include new paving and parking with an area for semi truck loading and unloading. The fence will be adjusted to accommodate a new building and a new gate for semi truck access. This is the south and north elevation for the proposed building. The proposed building would be consistently the existing structures on this campus constructed as a concrete tilt up and exterior coloring of the building would be great. No new landscaping is being proposed that the Kansas due to the hazardous soil and I will defer to the applicant for more details. I have to mention that today around noon I received a call from a neighbor. She didn't provide me any comment. She didn't provide me her name, but she was upset about the uses in that area and mentioned the older produced by cannabis is very high in that area and she was not in favor of the proposed project but for the use not the building itself. And with that, this is the concept design review and it is exempt from the California environmental review because you know the decision is being made today. And with that, the planning and the applicant and the planning and economic development department are requesting that the design review board provides comments and your chance for the given building one project. And that's the staff presentation. The applicant is available to answer questions. They don't have any PowerPoint, but they are available to answer questions. Thank you. Thanks Monday. So if we're not going to do applicant presentation. Let's kick it to public comment on the project. And so I'm going to turn it over to the recording secretary and we're going to go to public comment on this project and if we see any raised hands public gets three minutes to comment on the project. So Michelle. Thank you so much. And I am not seeing any hands for public comment at this time. All right so seeing no public comment. So let's just do a quick little check. So it sounds like Monet got some late correspondence which she noted. There were no additional kind of voicemails or anything else at the city on this project today. No, nothing you put just a form called Monet. Perfect. All right. So then let's bring it back to the board for questions of the applicant and staff. I'm going to have a quick clarification Monet. You said that you said something about hazardous soils that I didn't catch all of it. Could you could you reiterate that place. I asked the applicant to provide landscape plans and they mentioned that they cannot plant any trees in that area of the property to the soil hazardous. There's something issue with the soil and I believe the applicant Katie Clark and China they can answer those questions about landscaping. So I'm going to have a quick presentation of the landscaping plans were provided for this project. You're muted. Yeah, I just thought I imagine that'll probably be a question from Adam. And the others about the lack of a landscape plan so maybe can we get Michelle can we get the applicant, maybe the architect, the project owner project applicant to raise their hands and the zoom platform here and grant them permission to speak so it looks like we have Katie Clark. Katie, you should have a problem. Pardon me. It sounds like you can speak Katie so please introduce your name and relationship with the project and hopefully you can answer our question. This is Katie Clark and I have done the development on this entire project. These were empty abandoned buildings for 12 years. I do probably all aware that this is the cannabis campus. We're building back building one. This property was contaminated by awfully years ago. We actually have the cleaning process is actually on our site also, in which awfully still maintains and deals with. We're not allowed to did more than 18 inches without having someone out there to check the soil actually have a tree person out there today and trees were planted to the back of the property at a time. And we're removing five dead trees this week. There's no does not survive in this property in this soil. And that was long before we came along. So, if anyone has been out to the property, there aren't trees on the obvious site, which is taking care of, which was the old awfully site. And they really isn't the way for us to do landscape that will live for any amount of time. We are putting in a bioswale that's going to be required. We're going to work very hard on that. I don't even know how that's going to survive in the long term. We're going to have to bring in quite a bit of soil and do everything we can to to assist it. Cool. Thank you so much, Katie. We appreciate you. So, I'll then turn it over to the board here. It looks like Adam wants to lead off some questions here. Probably about questions. So we'll go with Adam with questions of staff and applicant. My main question I just wondering what that contaminant was like, I'm not familiar with. Okay. So, what's the name of the company that was there? Correct. Okay. I thought I might have been something left over from the Navy or something. Yeah. Okay. So the company was ugly and so it's contaminated with solvents and. Yes. We've only gone to the point and it's beyond our site. We have the cleaning facility on ours. But there's wells in a very large area that all are pumped through the cleaning facility. And they. We've only been able to reduce the entire site by 20% of the well over the last month. My understanding 30 years that it's been going on. Okay. Well, it's interesting. We've seen a number of. Developments in this neighborhood. Just right around the corner a couple of weeks ago. And this is the first I've heard of this particular contaminant. I'm not surprised for the historical uses of this whole area. But okay. Thank you. They're not aware. Sometimes people are not aware of that. I did this development. I literally have to have someone on site. If we dig 18 inches or more. Okay. So I'm really aware. Yeah. I bet. Well, thank you for being aware. And I don't, I don't have any other questions than just that clarification. Thank you. Thanks, Adam. So we'll. Bring it back to the board here. Let's go with board member Wolski questions of applicant and staff. Yeah, I'm curious. You mentioned the cleanup. I see that on GIS. The parcel is, is marked. I'm just curious how. How long this is this condition is expected to last. Usually they have some sort of remediation program in place and the expectation is that in such amount of time, this could be cleaned up. So I'd like to see information on that included. With a, with another submittal. Or if you want to make comments now, that's fine too. Well, they're not projecting it to be cleaned up in yours or my lifetime. I can't forward a CD. It's hundreds and hundreds of pages. Because I have sold other buildings here and they're required for lenders.  That discuss. This is a cleanup. But it's not going to be. It will not be cleaned up in any of our last times. All right. Any other questions. Sheila. All right. Board members, staff, any questions of staff of the applicant? No questions for me. Thank you. Thanks, Mark. We'll go to. John, any questions, John? No questions for me either. All right. And questions. Board member Birch. Not, no, not at this time. The only question I had was. That contaminate question. So we'll go to comments now of the board. And so, Adam, I'm going to let you lead this off again. Hot seat. For Mr. Sharon today. So comments on the project, Adam. Hey. Thank you. Monet and thank you. Applicant for. The presentation and the concepts. Yeah, we, you know, as far as. Well, one, it's a, it's pretty straightforward. You're attempting to match. The general feel and tenor of the buildings around there and what you've done before on the site. So I can see that, that it's, you know, as far as utilitarian, it's very utilitarian. This, what it is. Tilt up. Box. And it will be great. For its use. As far as for us. Things for us to examine and to really pull apart. There's really not too much in this. In the concept. Really it's just basic site plan and the elevations. You know, I guess we can get a sense of that. It's going to be great. But what color gray is going to be the exact same color as the other ones. Is it, you know, what, what is the. You know, really the, the finish of the buildings. Basically what I'm saying is that we don't have too much really to react against. And so when we get concept. Review packages. One of the things that's important. And special for us is to. If we have detail. It's not that we necessarily want to. Have everything thought out, but it gives us something to discuss. And with this package, there's not really much to discuss. Sort of the nature of the project that is utilitarian, but we're also tasked with. With providing superior design. Feedback. And so from what we have here. Basically. The structure fulfills its need. But we don't. I don't have too much. The design feedback because there's not too much to the design really. You know, we don't know what the fences are going to be like because there's plenty of fencing around here. Thank you for addressing the contamination and the lack of landscape that's around there. I know that, you know, the rest of the campus there is. Is is unvegetated. Pretty much. And or definitely unvegetated. But across the way. You know, there's the Audi and the snow, the beverage company. They have trees and lawns and pathways. And there's a little park down the way. There's. It's not just utilitarian. So when this does come back, you know, I'd like to see. How this is going to really add to. You know, the. You know, some ways. Utility of the neighborhood, but also the beauty of the neighborhood. So. I'd like to have some more. Definitely details when it, when this comes back. Is this going to come back to us? Sorry. The tension thing in the last one. Yeah. So there's. Not any sort of limit. Yeah. It's going to be a major design. Yeah. Great. You know, we'll be really interested to see. A lot more of these details. So we can really react to something. And it's not because we want to shut anything down, but it's really just a spark ideas. And so. Look forward to what you come up with. And I'll look forward to hearing what my colleagues have to say as well. Thank you. One more thing I'd like to say. So everyone is aware. These are private roads. So these are not even city roads and services. We own all these. As far as the complex is concerned. So there it is a unique situation. As far as that's concerned. We have installed the sidewalks and those types of things. And the ADA, but everything is. So the, it's not a city road. With respect to that. And if you do take a look at the other, you will find. Their trees are dying very regularly. And they're removing them more and more all the time. Surface grass. Is a. Possibility. We just don't have the space for the need. For surface grass. We're going to work hard to get a buyer as well. I think that. Everyone can assure you that trees are not long lived there. Yeah. The install some recently to accommodate. Something. And they're already dying on this. So we can definitely get it documented that. Anything with a deep root structure will not survive. Unfortunately. There are creative ways to think about this as well. Maybe you don't have to plant in ground. There are containers that can be done. Takes more money and more expense. But there are ways to do it. Take some, you know, this is the creative thinking that we like to hear about. Even if it is, you know, private roads. And from a zoning and planning perspective, I think it's going to take a lot of time. So we can definitely get it documented that. Anything with a deep root structure will not survive. Unfortunately. There are creative ways to think about this as well. I think it's going to take a lot of time. I think it's going to take a lot of time. And from a zoning and planning perspective. Even private roads when they serve parcels. Or under city preview.  This is subject to design review. Board member Wolski comments. Yeah. Probably will not be as diplomatic as board members share. And this fell pretty flat for me. The building looked kind of forbidding. But this wasn't a extra PHD. That was what it looked like. But this is a more large part. More fortress like, and I understand that this is a use that requires some security. But again, as board member Sharon said, there just wasn't much to react here to here. I understand perhaps wanting to, to make it compatible with, with the other buildings on the site. So, you know, I would hope that we could do better with this iteration of the building. We have, I was kind of noting some things in the design guidelines, you know, outdoor amenities for employees, repetitive building design discouraged single color flat walls discouraged, possibly adding accent bands or wall insets and reveals. So, I would definitely want to see more on this and I understand that this Clark has some information about this site regarding, you know, the possibility of landscaping but I'm looking back at 20 years and it looks like those trees on the western edge were there 20 years ago. So, you know, I'd be looking for more information on that and landscaping possibilities with this project. That's it for me. Thanks. Thanks Sheila board member staff. I'll just echo Sheila and Adam. There's not much there. There's not a lot of detail provided so there's not a lot of a lot to react against. And it is a very spare design. Perhaps it's necessary in this case but it is it's it's it's somewhat somewhat bleak. So, if there was any way to add some interest in the buildings themselves or in the landscaping, it would at least be nice to think that through. So we'll look forward to or all look forward to seeing this again next time around. That's it for me. Thank you. I'll take the next question from the board member. Well, I'm looking at this and and I'm thinking that there's a whole lot of opportunity here. This is pretty bleak. And there's there's got to be something you can do. as some of my colleagues have said. So you have an opportunity to do something with this that makes it more attractive. And given the fact that you, as you say, you can't do much with landscaping, then perhaps you can do something with the building to at least make the building reasonably attractive and not so bleak. And I apologize for my comments if those are offensive. I don't mean that to be, but I just, you know, I'm supporting my other colleagues, just not a whole lot here for us to really comment on. So that's where I am. Thanks, John. And we'll go to Vice Chair Birch for his comments. Yeah, same echo in all the comments across the board. Thank you, Board Member Wolski, for bringing some of the straightforward items from the design guidelines to the table. I'm, you know, I'm thinking that there is, you know, I just don't know who your team is. I'm imagining that a landscape architect could have some creative solutions around even a minimal amount of landscaping that supports maybe a more adventurous or interesting architectural design. I would imagine on a cannabis campus there's quite a few green thumbs who know how to grow things in less than 18 inches of dirt. So I'm not sure if there's an opportunity there. But I, they're just, there's nothing here to really, for us to assess. I think we've given you a really good round of comments. Go back to the design guidelines and there's an awful lot more information that needs to be in a major design review package. I'm sure that Monique will share that with you. But yeah, you know, I'm not sure given how light this package is that you may or may not want to be back for another concept review that's down this road.  So, you know, good, good luck. I hope you've got the design professionals around you there to bring this to the next level so that we can really comment on it. Thanks, Michael. And I'm going to not reiterate anything I've already heard. I think the thing that I reacted to, which may be a little bit different being the only architect is I saw a lot of potential in the tilt up construction methodology. And as I looked at the surrounding buildings, some of the things that I noticed about those, which I think are very typical for kind of industrial, large industrial concrete facilities is either engaged columns or pilasters that kind of exist around the elevations. And that's usually a product of, you know, kind of a buttress kind of scenario for to support trusses or beams or girders or something for long spans. So I think something like that might be an interesting way to provide some rhythm and depth in the elevations, which is something that you can do within the confines of tilt up construction, that there is some depth to that, that you have kind of engaged columns or pilasters or something like that. You know, that could be interesting. Something else that might be interesting in comparison to the other facilities is, again, in tilt up construction, you can change the texture and the feel of the concrete when you pour it based on the molds in the pour. So, you know, maybe there's a textural change at a certain height or something that can add, you know, kind of some interest to the building. I know, you know, it's a cannabis facility. It needs to be dark. It has to have controlled lighting inside. It needs to not have exhaust fumes of what's going on inside, you know, by ordinance of the city. There's a lot of considerations kind of for how the building functions and the technical elements for how that all works. But I think, you know, if you spend a little bit of time with tilt up and kind of explored some of the flexibility within tilt up, that you might find some nice creative solutions to meet some of the design guidelines that Sheila referenced. I think it's in 3.4 business and light industrial parks, if you guys want to take a peek at that. There are some other things in there that are interesting, but I think the primary thing that we're going to be concerned with, and I want to really emphasize this, is goal A and the goals in business and light industrial parks and buildings. And it says to encourage superior design in business and light industrial parks. And now superior design is a very broad sort of thing, right, in many ways. But I would argue that a building that's tilt up concrete all the way around with no articulation, no relief, and it's just got some roll-up doors and some man door entrances is not of superior design, right? That's simplistic and basic to design, functional design doesn't mean it's bad design at all. It just means it's functional and simplistic design. I think what I've heard from the other five members of this board is that you guys need to bring something of superior design, while also being utilitarian, functional, secure, safe to the table. And I would also echo Michael's thoughts. If you're not feeling like you're getting there, I would encourage a second concept design review, kind of where you are. If you progress a little bit further in the next couple of weeks or the next month, work with staff to schedule an additional concept design review before coming back for your entitlement action. Because I think hearing the comments of this board tonight, I think the board will have a very difficult time granting you discretionary entitlement on this project, just given where it is right now. And saying that this board is very pro-project historically and we want to entitle our projects, we want them to move forward, we don't want them to stop at all. And so to hear those sorts of comments from this board that they're worried about the design, I would take that to heart and figure out how to kind of come to the next phase and the next steps for your project hearing those comments from the board. So, I've got some typing to do of my own comments. While we do that, while I do that, Katie and China and anybody else from your team, do you have any additional thoughts or comments for the board? I'm going to turn it over to Michael to field those while I get to type in if China has this Katie Clark again. It is, you know, we are looking to do something that is similar to everything else that's out there. I will work with the architect and see if we can come up with something that will satisfy some appearance, you know, something that you're looking for. We are circled with a 12 foot fence. This is an arm guarded site. So, I'm uncertain how we might bring something that would be appealing because it is not very visual, no matter what. So, we're just trying to create something. Maybe we can do something on the second level that will create something that's appealing, but the first 12 feet you're not going to see anyway because we are covered, you know, that was a requirement of the city when we created this. So, it does create an interesting situation where we're not looking to spend a lot of money for something at the back of a building that no one's going to see, but we'll definitely, you know, we'll definitely come back with something possibly. We are looking to eventually paint all of the buildings. Our buildings are just concrete, tilt-up buildings currently. Maybe we can come up with something with an overall plan to paint all of the buildings that may make them a little more appealing, but they all look just about the same right now. I have one more question since we're at design review. Is there really a desire for us to try to put grass in for something with our water situation?  I'm just looking for input there. I think, I mean, just for me, I'm totally sympathetic to the plight of the contamination on the site and the problems that that has. I think what I heard from the board primarily was to just to take a look at it and work with, you know, your landscape architect if you haven't engaged, you know, or a higher one, you know, just for some thoughts or maybe perhaps some of those green-thumbed folks that work in the facilities. Maybe they have some ideas of what could work. Within the confines of obviously something that doesn't require, you know, that meets the city's, you know, drought kind of tolerant planting concepts and isn't obtrusive, isn't super costly, but just something that's not, you know, just bare asphalt or concrete or something.  I don't know, and I think that's up to you guys to kind of figure out what that might be for you that works with the business over there that kind of ties all the parts and pieces together. I don't know, Adam, did you have any additional thoughts on that kind of what I think I'm hearing from you and other members of the board? Yeah, I think you're on the right track, Drew, definitely. Yeah, no, I didn't mention grass. I don't think anyone else really mentioned grass. It's not something that we propose really or like to see even. We don't even necessarily like see swathes of the lawn coming before the board, one just in a design sense, but then also to go with the guidelines that we have for water efficiency. And I think Drew's points to thinking about your employees is a key one that I've been thinking about this time too, knowing that, you know, these are, you know, not thoroughfares that people are driving on to get to and from places. They're not main roads. It is a private, you know, industrial development. But you do have workers. I mean, you do have people that work there. The relief is not necessarily just so people can drive by and see pretty buildings and not see something that's real ugly. It's really to, you know, as a board, the superior design is not just for people looking at buildings, but people that use the buildings, how they fit into the context of the neighborhood and how they fit into everything. And so you're fitting into the industrial context and that's where, you know, we're very sympathetic to utilitarian nature. But you do have this campus and I, you know, you've got what at least four buildings I see maybe more as part of your main campus there. So you have plenty of workers.  Thinking about how, you know, these are the relief that we're thinking about when you, you know, say you're driving in and you're going to work. And you do that 40 hours a week. Every time you drive in, you see a great concrete wall. You know, as the city body, we would are advocating for everyone to have access to good design. Superior design is not just pretty things. It's actual well thought out infrastructure. It's primarily what we are tasked with doing as far as I see it. And so really thinking about your employees and your buildings and this neighborhood, you know, when I think about projects, you start from what you're trying to design for. And then you think about moving out from that. You think of your site. You think of the neighborhood context. You think of the city context, you know, the landscaping that we're thinking about might not even, you know, it's not necessarily swaths of lawn, but maybe it's trees and pots to create that plaza that Drew just mentioned, or to create just a nook where the employees can go on their break.  You're providing multiple winds. This is where, you know, bringing in designers could really help to just spark things. Because, you know, these, we don't want to, we're not trying to just shut anything down. We're trying to spark that creativity to really spark. These are opportunities really. You have opportunities to do something. Maybe these long swathes of wall could be, you know, you're talking about painting all of your buildings. Maybe this is the first stage of painting something with murals or with just a beautiful stripe or a wave or something, that you're creating some relief, color, texture, Drew's idea of, you know, texture of materials. This could be the first step to create, you know, a gorgeous industrial site that is a pleasure to come to work at. And, you know, they don't, it doesn't have to be terribly expensive too. It can be small, small winds. And so I encourage, find designers that can really help you think creatively about these things.  Think of it that way. You can have a lot of fun with it. And have it also fit all of your needs and desires too, so. Well, we do have other locations on this, on the campus. So maybe what we bring to you is showing you, we do have other outside areas. And this will most likely be the same employees that will be using this because of the size of this campus. We even have them playing disc golf in the back in a planter strip in back. We have outside covered areas. We have picnic benches. So that's in other areas of the site. What will be developing here will actually be this area that will have the least, just because of the layout of the building and with road coming through. It will be the least. It will give us the least options to do that, but we'll be able to show you the next time we come through where we have picnic areas currently. Where we, you know, we have areas where they eat lunch. We have covered areas. We have uncovered areas. Like I say, they play disc golf in the back. Yeah. Yeah. And we're not necessarily saying you need to provide break rooms for the truck drivers and delivery drivers, but you've got a 206 foot long wall with nothing on it right now. That's an opportunity right there with some interesting architectural feature, a swatch of color. Someone will want to do us a mural. Oh yeah, I bet you'd have no problem finding people to do something. Then you have to get something that you actually want in the site of your building. I was going to say, who approved those murals? There is that question. Do we bring a mural concept to you? I think absolutely. Yeah, I mean there is another public art committee, but I think from a building perspective, anything that you guys are interested in doing and want to do to kind of amp up what could be a very simplistic building, I think would be positively received. So I'm going to, I see the architecture firm is on the call here. I would, I'm just, I'm going to say this again. Please read Section 3.4, Business and Light Industrial Parks and Buildings of the City of Santa Rosa Design Guidelines. If you have trouble finding it, please ask Monae, your project planner, and she will point you in that direction because I think there is a lot of really good information contained within that document, and I would encourage you to take a look at it. I think many times cities have form-based code, or they have other kind of regulations, or different things that prohibit kind of flexibility and creativity. And what's really, really, really nice about the City of Santa Rosa's design guidelines is that it allows the creative teams to flex their muscles a little bit and try to find what works within the confines of the design guidelines, but also works for the project, both from a budget standpoint and also from a usability standpoint at the end, at the end of the game. And I think that's what's really unique and special about our design guidelines as opposed to other places. I've lived places that have form-based code. I've lived places that have really restrictive kind of design guidelines about things. And so I think there is flexibility within here to create a beautiful building that's also utilitarian and functional and secure, right? And we saw a cannabis project not too, too long ago that had some really unique aspects to it, public art, an interesting interpretation of kind of their security fencing and kind of a different engagement of materiality of the building while also being utilitarian, functional, and secure. So I think those are all things that I would encourage you guys to take a look at, kind of what's been here in the past at the City, but also the guidelines as well, because they do provide a lot of meat and potatoes in terms of kind of what sorts of things we might be looking for. But also I think the City at large, even for industrial parks, which I think we're going to acknowledge they're not the most beautiful thing on the planet, but they do need to not be a public eyesore in many ways. So anything else from the rest of the board? Cool. Any other thoughts, Katie, from your team at all? I did see a hand go up from somebody and then it went down. I think that might be somebody from the African team. Troy Lava, is that right, Katie? I'm not sure. I think China's on the call, but or Dominic is on the call. So Michelle, let's go ahead and grant Troy the ability to speak, and perhaps it's a public comment. If it's a public comment, great. We'll take it, or if he's a member of the Africa team, also cool. I'm not sure that Troy is on the call yet. He appears to be. Yeah, or whoever it is. Anyway, Michelle? Troy, you should have the ability to unmute yourself. It looks like you are unmuted, but we cannot hear you. If you would like to call in, I can give you the phone number and the meeting ID, and you could call in and I will look for you. So the phone access is also on the screen. The phone number is<PHONE_NUMBER>. Meeting ID is 816-1176-1047. Troy just texted me and said he's been listening to the comments and he thanks you for your comments and then we will work on this. I'm assuming on our next design review, you'd like to see maybe an overview of the site that will help you see where we already have areas for our employees and that type of situation. Yeah, I think that would help. I think that would help the board immensely. I would work with Monet as well. There are specific requirements for what needs to be submitted for an entitlement package and so I would work with Monet on what those specific items are, site plan, lighting plan. I mean, there's a whole laundry list of things that we'd like to see if those items are not present that potentially could hang up your entitlement as well. So I would work with the project planner to make sure that you're providing all the documents that are listed and required and I think, again, a campus plan would be helpful for the board to kind of understand what's where. I'm assuming that our light plan and everything you want consistent what our original light plan was on all of the other. We had to do this in the entire development. So they called out all the specific lights, all of that, which we would be in keeping with the same as we've done because of the looms and all of the things that were calculated before. So it doesn't affect neighbors. We're absolutely. Yep, 100%. Yes, 100%. So it's generally called a photometric study. And if your architect can't help with that, they should go hire an electrical engineer. I'm kidding. We have all that from our original development. So it all still exists. Perfect. Yeah. So that'd be great. So Monet, you had something? Yes. Would you like to see another concept design review or you want to go straight to the final design review? I feel like a concept design review would be better. I think that would do that and we'll need to get the entire site. So they'll be able to get an idea that our employees are accommodated and how things are dealt with currently. Yeah, I'm just going to take a quick straw poll here. I mean, I think you're open to an additional concept design. But if you guys want to see an additional concept design, just give me a hand raised, please. The rest of the board. All right. So it's looking like most of the board. Yeah, everybody's wanting a second concept design review. So if you could please work with Monet to get that together. That would really help us out. We won't do that. Yeah. And like I said, again, we want your project to go forward. We're very pro-project as a group. And so I think just more information tends to help us out because then we can fully understand kind of what's going on on your site, right? What's going on with your building, the surrounding conditions, etc. And I think probably all of you are aware we've already done our pre-application. So all the departments have chimed in, you know, fire. Everybody's happy with our site from the years since we began its development. That's actually, that's great news. That's also great news. So fantastic. So great. So anyway, I'm gonna just bring it back to the board here. It sounds like we're coming to the end. Any last thoughts? If not, we will close item 8.2. Thanks so much, applicant team, for looking at your project. And we'll see you again with an additional concept review and hopefully keep you moving in the process here. And with that, I'd like to move to item 9, which is adjournment. And it is 6.30 on the button. So everybody have a great weekend and great week next week. And we'll see you at the next Design Review Board. Have a good one. Take care. Thanks all. Bye-bye. Thanks, everyone.


So I'm David Dickman and I'm responsible for modeling tools at SAP and what we've been finding a lot of people face with these days is an increased complexity. Now we've talked about database systems and sure databases themselves are getting more complex but it's not about this project-centric application-centric I'm building a database for this purpose anymore. What we're finding is people are trying to treat information as a corporate asset. So semantics is a set of web standards that were designed to describe data coming from anywhere on the web and this is a set of standards that's about 10 years old and what we discovered at IBM was that you know this was a way to capture the relationships and meaning across data not only on the web but across enterprises as well. And so when you take these fundamental concepts of linking data together and using a graph model of how to enterprise data you can now easily link together sources of structured data like your relational databases and data warehouses together with spreadsheet data and even unstructured data coming from the web, social media and your documents and emails within the enterprise. The easiest way to explain what a graph database is I mean most people know about databases with the rows and columns but in the graph database you have nodes and links between nodes. These rows and links are actually unique URLs so you can build up a whole set of databases and as long as you make sure that the nodes and the links have a standard vocabulary you can link all these databases together. So what we've done is we've grown data modeling tools up into information architecture tools so we have things like an enterprise conceptual model. This treats for example the idea of customer one instance of the customer entity for the entire enterprise for all business use cases one concept of party one concept of application or component all these things are single instances that have a super set of everything that's in there. This helps us with master data management with master data governance this also helps us align all those different disparate physical systems and start to reduce the impedance mismatches that integration and federation systems are dealing with today. The semantic models give you a conceptual way for business users and analysts to really understand all this data that's been brought together so they can be really involved in building solutions and applications and driving requirements and ultimately understanding their data assets in a way that with traditional data warehousing technology is they're not able to. Yeah if you try to integrate say data for 400 different databases then each database is a schema and for the people in the company it's one big mess because how do all these schemas relate to each other. So what you can do is you can turn each schema of each database into a little graph do some work to link them together and then you could say how does this element in the bill of material relate through all the other database to maybe an ERP system or to a sales database. So that's one way where instead of going through the databases you go through the meta space as if the meta space were a graph. So we look at modeling today it's not just data modeling anymore information architectures a fusion of application architecture technology architecture process architecture and the business side of data coming together with the technology and that's where things are heading next.