Let's get underway. Welcome. Welcome. Welcome everybody. I'm very very very excited for today's episode of logic live and We are super excited to welcome a new sponsor to logic live and that is AJA AJA develops an extensive range of solutions for the professional video and audio market From conversion devices to IO solutions digital recorders cameras and more The team at AJA is a real friend to the logic community sponsoring prizes for one frame of white and the famous NAB parties They make the best gear out there. So if you're looking for anything in the IO market Be sure to get it from AJA AJA and I swear this is the copy that they sent me We can't fix the text module, but if you need video IO, we've got you covered Thank You Steve Losi We love you man and Logic live is also brought to you by a cynisus Oceana solutions integration and support for digital content creators These guys are my personal reseller I've been working with them for 15 years could not do my job without them and they've always been big supporters of the flame community Check out everything they have to offer at cynisus.io cynis is Oceana supporting flame artists since 1997 My guest today is Stefan LeBrie Stefan is a senior product owner at Autodesk A title that I will ask him to describe for us later Stefan is the caretaker for the parts of flame that we interact with every day Project management conforming archiving caching and third-party integrations just to name a few He's a brilliant and extremely funny guy whose passion for flame and its users are at the core of all that he does Ladies and gentlemen, I give you the lovely and the talented Stefan LeBrie Stefan are you there? Hello, Andy. How are you? Hello? Hello? I'm from sunny Montreal and last Sunday afternoon outside I mean it's a great moment to be doing anything then Facebook live thing, but that's fine I mean it's only one hour, so then I'm gonna go back to the pool after This event so thanks for having me today It's a great honor to be live with you and talk about everything related to flame or not depending how you feel today about The questions and all these Yeah, I love I love hanging out with you Stefan because all of our conversations are like an exercise in cyclical comedic ridiculousness You know we'll start off like talking about something legitimate like like flame or or like our families or something And then one of us will throw something out of left field just to kind of throw the other one off and then veer right back to the original conversation, so I've always appreciated your sense of humor and You know, let me out. Are you like what were you like as a kid? Were you the class like class clown if they had such a thing, you know Well, in fact, I was the guy in the back, you know imitating the teacher bringing comedy books and giving that away to my friends, so then like magazine like Coming magazine, so then I mean I always like to entertain people and I guess that followed me till the now People laugh is good. It's a good way to interact with people when you laugh I mean you enter somebody's zone and then you better communicate better understand each other and then we can get make great things I've seen in software development Making people laugh is a great asset agreed Agreed so you've been with Autodesk for 22 years. Is that correct? I joined in September 1997 so it's gonna be 23 years since September Labor Day Labor Day So I started on Labor Day. So I started on an early day. So this is the best way to start a job And then and then yeah, I'm still there having fun doing software for for you guys and exploring technologies and mixing art and technology together and What did you when you started at well, I guess it was discrete logic back then what was your role? How did you get in there? So I friend of mine which Bruno Munger with I studied with Was working for discrete logic in the in the QA testing department for fire Which was the editing products alongside flame and inferno and he told me well, you should come join us We need help you need people like you to help do software So then I was working in post-production. I was happy with my job I was happy with my customers and I say why not so let's have a look and let's see how it is to work with the startup technology, you know company like this great logic and then I joined the discrete team as Q way to a member and Some years after I've become the team lead of the team and some years after I've become product designer and from there You know, I've worked with the team to create a great releases Right, you were a subject matter expert the last time we met face-to-face and now you're a product So in Autodesk the product designer team kind of evolved So when I joined the title was product specialists meaning that we are the people knowing the software Then we move as product designers same job in fact definition, but the different title later. We became user experience designer And some years ago we became subject matter experts But at the end of the day and then product owner But at the end of the day is the same workflow with the same work is to translate Into Technology for the developers the requirement of the products defined as defined by a product management Knowing the technology knowing the third-party application knowing the competitors knowing where the business should go This is what we do every day in fact and talking with the customers like you and other beta sites So to make the better to make the best product out of the requirements and then the ever-changing technology How long is the average development cycle It kind of changed because Five or six years ago from the mistaken we kind of changed the way we were developing software. So now a cycle is around Three to five months, but some years ago It was like 18 months and the problem with the 18 months is you are developing something that might not be usable Or even answer the market needs when you deliver that, you know One year and a half after you start thinking about it now We deliver more often as you've seen the week before we release a twin 21.1 update that is a continuity on the 2021 that we released in spring and Usually we released two tree updates a year that are separated by three months. So we kind of release every three months four times a year Is there anything you can think of or that you would name that as an example of something that didn't survive the 18 month cycle You mean something we had to to get rid of after Like you you said that sometimes, you know over the course of like a year and a half something that you that is in development Because it was very important, you know at the at that moment By the time it actually comes to market the the market has changed the need is changes or anything that It never happened in our product line because we try to work with users and have early alpha Testing and beta testing but in our in other product line Let's have seen some project that had to be canned because they were going into the direction That was wrong at the time that they planned to deliver it. So there was a big market change some product have been canned because The market was not ready or the market was not there at the time of their release. That's sad It happens in technology people sometimes they have to reevaluate their technology need and then they will move on to something else, right? We were quite lucky about that that never happened But I understand that if that kind of thing might happen that might be a big problem for 14 or even a product line Is there any one feature of the the dot one release that you're you're especially proud of? That one release on my side is really about Keeping up with formats and it's also adding the GPU acceleration for Sony raw or exo CN on the Linux products And and as we know Sony Venice has been adopted a lot by advertising and long-form Projects so I'm quite happy that we are now able to decode that faster and don't have to cash content anymore If you are we're working with support key and 6k so we have better interaction So that's a good one If we were to look before that one The biggest thing that I'm proud of is the Dolby vision capabilities We've added to the flame products something we had in Luster some years ago But then our research two years ago were showing that more and more people wanted the capabilities in the flame product Because that only color probably vision. It's also mastering. It's also finishing It's also managing all the version of editorial that might come because you know We can edit till the last minute of a project and even after deliverable. We can also edit now nowadays so We had to do a lot of research to ensure How can we keep the flame as we know and augment the capabilities and plug this technology Into our tool set to extend and take advantage of the tool we've done in the past like connected conform Like media IO and so on so that was a great great product great project that we Opportunity to work with and you said it took about two years or from the original collection of Absolutely is so research Validation alpha beta testing. We had good collaboration by many good sites around the world They were able to test even prototype or even give feedback on power front presentation Something quite difficult because when you validate concepts a power point and that's something you can play with But that helped a lot designing the end result Gotcha. I want to ask you about connected conform in a minute, but While we're still talking about third-party integrations, it seems like that's one of those aspects of flame development. That's always You know, it's like a thankless job for you, you know, it seems like as soon as You you implement either a new codec or support for a new a new camera or something like that Two days before you announced that support There's a new camera that came out or a new codec or something Do you ever find it frustrating that it seems like it's never enough? No, in fact, we work closely with all the vendors so that way. I mean, we sure that on their roadmap We know what they plan to do when they plan to release so we have access to their SDK very early on Even in the alpha phase or very often we can give feedback on the quality of the SDK But yes, you're right sometime. They are new vendors coming with new cameras new formats and then It's always tricky supporting a format because you don't know I mean supporting an SDK means a lot of work and how much the market will adapt this technology So we don't want to code things for nothing That's why sometime it takes time before you see in the product support for some technologies Being camera being acquisition card being graphic card or whatever technologies because we want to make sure that what we Work on at the end makes sense for For for for the audience. I mean, we don't want to waste this development time on something that will not pop VR we talked about a lot about the VR in the last years and people were telling us what flame has to be, you know Very good in VR and we were remembering the stereoscopic 3d Buzz in 2009 that is kind of vanished, right? So we didn't want to spend too much cycles on these things because at the end of the day If people don't use these features, well, that's gonna be a waste. I don't have to maintain these things Right. Well, yeah, that's I we talked to will A few weeks ago and that was that was definitely a theme that was that was mentioned is that you know, once you support something I mean, what was the last time you you dropped support for something in in the software? I I can't think of anything, you know, I mean things are Absolutely some hardware because sometimes the vendors stop supporting with their SDK or operating system don't support But you're right. I mean, we I mean, it's known that there are a lot of workflows in our product And we tried to maintain them since you know many years and you're adding something So then you have to validate this 15 ways to interact with the application and ensure that you're not breaking something That is important for some users in some markets, right? But that's quite difficult Yeah, man I remember I remember showing up at NAB one year and I was in the middle of like my first VR project I was hating my life I was hating all my choices that led me to that point and you know, there was a lot of buzz With with the dev team about like, you know, we have to have a stitching solution in flame, you know Like I think I think that was the time you had shown that the 360 Options and you know, and you know, some of the feedback was like, that's great But you know, I need this and this and I want to be able to do this and you know And I believe that was the last time I did a VR project. So, you know, that's it So we've done research I mean and we talked to a lot of people and what the main issue with VR was not the technology But more the how you make money out of it. Well, at the end if you can't make money with a technology Well, you won't use a technology anymore because it doesn't make sense in your business So that's why we I mean one of the difficulties thing we have to sometimes do is to say no to say no to technology Or opportunities that at the end doesn't translate into reality Do you find actually we have a question, let me throw this out at you here This is from Charles Charles wants to know with so much of the heavy lifting getting done by GPUs Why hasn't Autodesk allowed or enabled flame to use external GPUs? I'm assuming on the Mac On the Mac or on the Linux platform, well, they are technology requirement to be able to get there that we're not there yet We are looking at different things and that might or not happen in the future But yeah, I mean the flame is the way flame works right now would make that quite difficult But there are technologies that we are aware of that could help But yeah, I mean again these are heavy infrastructure work that you need to do in phases to ensure that we don't break components of the applications Because any stability is the feature number one of the product I mean you can have a super good key or camera format support But if it doesn't behave the way it should well, I mean you breaking the product. So we have to protect that Do you find it? Challenging to work with Apple and I don't obviously I'm not I'm not prying to get you to say something controversial, but Like they just had their announcement a couple of weeks ago that they're putting out their own silicon and and and things like that Do you find? Is it difficult as a software developer? to manage Outside forces like that, you know when someone decides to drop a platform or or decide they're not going to support a Certain graph challenges that we have to deal with with not only Apple, but other vendors We have graphic cards that might you know Could be coming and then you know too late before the SDK is ready They are announcement sometimes for business reason the partner might not have the time to tell us about the given technology That is available and then we are asked. Well, how do you plan? When do you plan to implement technology a B or C? So yes, it's always challenging We try to work very closely with all the vendors some are more secretive than others but at the end I mean we are exposed to To what they do their roadmaps and we can take decision to see if it makes sense for us to be there or not, right? So I mean every vendor has its own particularities Challenges, but they depending on the market. They are they are in and it's always, you know a challenge But you know it's part of the I mean we want to use Cutting edge technology so you have no choice. You have to be in the game or you're not, right? So we have to be we have to be there Let's get back connected conform and this is something that you've been working on for years, right? However, yes, yeah forever Well, because you've seen it in the product in 2015 if I'm not mistaken, but we thought about that in 2003 so we started thinking about these are absolutely the very old thing that we wanted to do and For reason for priority reason, we weren't able to get there And of course we needed under what technology that was available in anniversary edition So you see so we needed so we had an idea and then we had to wait some time about that and we resurrected in 2014 and It was funny because we were Philip Francis and myself. Well, we were in LA Doing some visit and validations talking about new visual effects idea We had the four finishing and all that and then every big facilities where we were going we're talking about the amount of VFX versioning they were Having to manually replace and all their sequences, right? So people and we see that on logic or even on our internal forums people are asked for feature requests They have they want this format. They want this feature in the application They want this button that would do something but they rarely ask about workflows. So then we were faced to these people all the 10 sites we've visited were Stuck with all these versions and add the difficult time to manage So then we resurrected Disconnected conform ideas of linking together sequences and then we got the get-go and then we developed it in a way That is I feel quite interesting is instead of waiting many years to have a complete feature set We were able to release it in chunk to give you some some capabilities Get feedback iterate on that and so on for again the last what five years So that's interesting for users. It's not done. We have a lot of ideas that are not done But yeah, I mean it will never be done It's okay because because I mean we we we we're getting feedback. We're getting all Changing requirements because the deliverable you were doing two years ago are different right now So now it's social media you get the formats. I mean it's okay I mean we want that and every release we keep some development time to adjust Modify or enhance the capabilities of them to conform Yeah, right the social media deliverables, you know came just when you probably thought well just we thought we figured this out I mean on your side and on my side, you know, this comes along And totally blows everything up Yeah, and it's always the I mean the deliverables are at the end and then well You are expected to deliver tons of things very fast. So that's a big challenge that we again We have also ideas about how we could connect more than the content than the sequences probably kind of connected Deliverables so you could you know sing things. We have a lot of ideas around the around these connected teams Cool, how big is it the team that you work with I Don't have the exact count. I would say we are around what 30 people's ish Because there are people in different department Then you can extend to support you can extend to sales, but yeah, it's roughly around that It's a good size. I would say you cannot count I mean, it doesn't mean because you have 60 people that you are better than be a team of 30 people We see that in the past with some team that when they let go people they became better Because you get the synchronization of the various team and it's that again the count but more the type of people you work with Yeah, people who are fluent in different aspect of the application so they can go back and forward in between Between teams they can they have extended the competencies. So the head count is not important it's really how people are flexible enough to be able to Be in different teams, but that's important Question from from David. How do the sizes of the Mac and Linux user bases compare? Oh I don't have this is more a question for will in fact that is taking care of this business We've seen that new users coming for to the platform will of course add up Mac because it's easier to get to the platform The ones who are looking for enterprise solution or massive collaboration will select Linux products But yes, Linux requires a bit more technicals. It's less It's less simple than a Mac, but when you integrated these I mean competencies Well, you don't turn I mean you rarely go back to Mac after that So it's really an entry-level user base that on the Mac and Medium-sized facility on the Mac and then the larger one the enterprise level will be on Linux Any big plans for archiving ah Archiving yes, we have a lot of ideas about archiving Archiving is a great things that you need to have Working all the time because you never know when the customer will come back But I feel that you know our closed way that we archive since you know the 20 last year I am with the company is something that should evolve should evolve into a more open format the tool more mix of data media management and Being managed into probably open standards Of course you would ask well which open standards so there are some standards popping, you know We are looking at them We are looking to see how these could fit as you would imagine changing archiving because archiving is really tied to the data Management of flame so that means the library structure and the archive is the same right so that means to change one You need to change the other so that means you need to revisit a lot of things in the application so Having a risk that's why this kind of architectural project takes time and you need to be you know a good seller to sell that kind of Of a project in it because you know it's costly so you need to marry that with other initiative Maybe the cloud may be the openness of Of other workflows and products, but that's how you would sell it Yeah, we had like a a Very intense almost like a spiritual level like conversation to work a few years ago About the difference between archiving and disaster recovery like in a different it was like we had to we just implemented like a sand and we just implemented All kind of it was an opportunity to rethink kind of everything like workflow wise and and yeah It was it was kind of transformative. We had always thought of archiving as like, you know, well I Guess disaster recovery, you know, I was like in case. Oh my god either I delete something or like I lose all The drives in my stone That I would be able to bring back what I worked on yesterday and we weren't really thinking about it in terms of you know Putting it on a shelf or putting it in storage in case three years from now the client comes back But I imagine if you or not even I imagine I know once we started thinking about those two things differently It opened up All kinds of possibilities work for us. We weren't so tied into you know I totally agree and very often today people do archive But very often what they want to do is a backup. They want the back of their data They want to ensure the made of data is protected if and and they want of course having they want to have ways to get back in time To ensure that all the sequence I deleted two weeks ago. I need it back How can I get that so this is our archiving does that but archiving relies on you know a more a more Larger data set that you might not need for you for your daily backups You don't need to hard drive all the media that you have right so sometimes the data would be enough So yes, this is part of all the thing. We're thinking about for a future data management project gotcha What about the the the effects tab and that whole workflow bringing more of color into Flame what was that conversation like? back in the day So I remember everybody. I mean I remember I distinctly remember being part of you know Debates about like I want luster in flight like the minute that anniversary edition came out and there were tabs You know it was like at the bottom. I want a luster tab, you know It was the same way that I wanted VR to I want a stitching solution in flame, you know We always said well that color will not be with that tab will not be a luster tap What do you want is ways to navigate ways to interact ways to add modify effects But that goes beyond color. It's not only color. It's not luster work flows and luster are Close what we have right now in the effect environment So having a view on which you have your pyramid parameters You can navigate from shot to shot and easily move things around something you had in luster since they won But I mean you want more than color. So the conversation happened You know, I would say around 10 years ago Where we we know we knew that we wanted to move more and more luster technology in the flame product It was clear that maybe every manufacturer was looking at having in a single product all capabilities And that makes sense at the end of the day. You want to be able to conform to finish the gray to FX Work with the multiple version Like connected conform within the same environment. So there's There's the best the best interchange that you have is between you flame products, right? So you can have your conform in flame assist flare doing batch work and a couple of flames doing color doing effects We finishing well, this is great because I mean you don't have to translate data You don't have to move media around so that makes sense So then we the design team sat down and look at different scenarios a lot of scenarios on how we could do that and Of course, you would imagine the amount of capabilities that we listed as being requirements for a v1 v2 v3 v4 And and like connected conform and like other features we gave Toolset that is evolving at every release Then came machine learning then came other capabilities that are inside, you know the same environment. That's great Do you ever find it like a difficult? You know you made you brought up machine learning these things are very sexy, you know like they're very they're very topical and sometimes things like archiving and underlying media management Not so sexy. Do you ever find it different? Well, I mean except of course to people like you and me You know and and the and the and the fine collection of people who are on the webinar with us Do you ever find it difficult though? I mean, is there ever a battle for for resources or or maybe just anything like that? When you're going up against something like machine learning Well, they are there are times that you get industry pushed toward the direction where you have to invest But I mean the low-level infrastructure wall of the application. It has to work. It has to be developed It has to evolve and I'll always say to people when we discuss with Customers and the other designers or product owners that I'm always taking care of the the boring stuff to the conform the IOs I mean and and this is the kind of tools that you don't want to see you interact with every day But you don't want to know that they do exist, right? They are there they work as they expect them to work to let the place for other capabilities Like conform a light like FX environment like machine learning or action capabilities Right. So these are the tools that will make flame shine The the back and things has to be invisible. That's the work It is developed and but yeah, you don't want to think about that. So we know we don't we don't fight We don't fight for resource in this area We have the resource we need to bring them where we want them to be but I mean it's equally, you know Founded when we deliver versions I know what you mean and I mean this in the in the most loving possible way You don't appreciate plumbing until it doesn't work. You know what I mean when it leaks. I mean, you know, it exists Bingo Another thing on the list here was was was cashing there hasn't been an update to cashing in flame in a while Yes, why not?  So there's the media cashing There's the batch cash. There are a lot of things. There's also machine learning cashing. So there are a lot of things So is there are some things particularly you want to talk about or? No, I Like me me personally, I've just like I've jumped fully into using the machine learning tools in the last three weeks and it was I began to read that I Began to realize that now there's another aspect of cashing that I need to be aware of in my life I guess, you know, I've always been an advocate for Everything in the background as much as possible like and by that I mean, let's not waste a clock cycle If for some reason, you know, I'm not doing something then there should be a cue that's Doing whatever and then if it's not needed throw it out. That's fine Okay, so So we have this idea of Idol rendering that when you do nothing something happen it's complicated because We have to make sure that we are not blocking you from doing something So you have a pause because you're talking with the director in the suite and and then you want to go back So when you pause working with the application It should be intelligent enough to understand what you want to be rendered or cash And based on the last thing you've touched right so then there's one thing a second thing is Like I said, you want to make sure that when you get back to the application You don't you want to feel it you want to feel the flame as being available for you because you decide to use it These are not simple. So these are things that we have in mind also but they yeah, they take some Some some thinking to make sure that they are not they shouldn't be that should be invisible So you should not feel it. You should feel that everything you need is rendered So that's that's one way to do it. There's also other places in the application We can improve the performance in which case would not need cashing Because the software would just be faster So there are there are many ways to fix these things, right? the new technologies the new Hardware that you'll see next in the next years Will probably help us to get to these kind of workflows Like like what for instance? Well, new new new boards new new CPU new GPUs Distributed technology might also probably think about Remote and cloud who knows so these might probably help people Define the power they need today. You have a workstation. It has a given set of capabilities. Well, I mean When you Externalize the technology the hardware you might have ways to do things differently Before we get into that I wanted to ask you about a little bit about how the The lockdown has been for you the working from I mean, obviously you're you're you know, you're outside more You're getting fresh air and sunshine The little dappled lighting rig that you've hooked up for yourself is really very very well done I obviously your time you spend in film school was not wasted and I mean people keep going in and out of the trunk shop there behind you. I Imagine it's very popular, but how it's a great job. Yes, totally shop local how How is the working from home and working remotely affected you? so we have Many team at the desk working from out so like the shotgun people from from from from day one I mean, they were distributed they were guys and girls around the world in London, Los Angeles, New York, Montreal and They spend a good chunk of time on zoom and use slack and the flame team is co-located So that means the whole team is in Montreal in the past We had offices and in different places of the world But in the last year everybody is co-located and we work at the office We come in the morning we commute we come in the morning get the drink and then we have our meetings So we don't use slack We don't use zoom because we don't need it because we're working but mid-March everything changed mid-March so Friday the 13th I mean we had the feeling that we would not come back on the Monday and We brought some equipment home and then on the Sunday. We were told well And now you're gonna be working from home and make it work So it was okay good So we kind of plan and quite quickly the team really well adapted to work from home And I would say that two weeks after so beginning of April we kind of realized what it meant So a part of not seeing our friends because our colleagues are our friends, right? And we have very good coffee at the office, but a part of that I mean we integrated quickly zoom slack. We were able to do our Daily meetings sync up meetings Develop with the remote technologies or RGS or even bringing the hardware at home And I would say for now. I like it. It's fun. I mean you don't have to you don't waste commuting So then you wait you're gaining time because commuting might mean one or two hours a day Multiplying that by five and then by four weeks a month and then you have a lot of time so We were finalizing 2021 release so we were ready to go to any be to present our things We were working with Dolby to have a public demonstration of the Dolby vision at their boot and then of course the show vanished Sadly and of course not being able to meet you guys at any be is quite sad But I mean in retrospect, I would say that the team Really what was really well? Really well adapted we released 2021 and then we planned 2021 update for June And we were able to reason time without removing features. So working from home works for us And then well, we've seen our customers at the beginning struggling and trying to find ways to access remotely their station So we were able to work with to ready to work with HP So then we were getting fixes or capabilities and I think that Working from home is something that will stay even if people will get back to the office We might get back to the office some day a week for some In our case for some work rated the hard word might be difficult to move But I foresee that in the creative world a lot of creative will want to stay on and that have to Go commute if you think about London, I mean, we know a lot of people in London that they live far from the city So why would you want to waste two hours a day? Of course at the back end Good coffee, but I mean that can be fixed so the back end will have to adapt people will have to adjust With their customers the security requirements, but I mean everything is there I mean, it's not impossible to do I think it's definitely one thing that this showed that the we all scrambled to shut down so quickly that I think We proved that we could do it and and a lot of the stigma that was That was kind of hanging over the whole notion of doing visual effects work with the kind of work that we do at home You know was quickly, you know rendered pointless, but I'm wondering the experience of You know we talked a few minutes ago about you know adapting to the needs of your customers and needs the market has has the the whole notion of remote workflow Taken on a higher priority with flame development Now that we're all Covid-19 did not in fact made that more higher in the list. It was already I on the list before that we've shown We've shown at any bit when he's 17 in our tech suite. I think 2017 if I'm mistaken that they ready she access, you know remote access We had customer using it from West Coast or to West Coast East Coast or West Coast without issues without seeing, you know, any latency, so that is on our mindset since many things collaborating between multiple seats in facility like we can do over the Autodesk network is something we do since a lot of time. So the remote access Always been in our mindset and on our radar It just that it continues because now we have people that are ready to make the jump Before Covid people were talking about that. We're trying to find business models that were making sense But now they have the opportunity to do it and they have the They have people access to people who are so the vendors the artists the technical people are eager to do it Yeah, whereas before Covid-19, I mean why change something that works Well, now you have to change it because yet need to adapt You need to be able to satisfy your customer requirements and they won't be lower. I mean they just this is going to be higher requirements Yeah, everybody was was was was accommodating when we were all scrambling even on the customer or the client side to figure out how we're going to do this and You know, some people had really buttoned up solutions others had, you know, kind of just things they threw together You know, they figured it out as they went along and made it work. So I think now you're totally seeing the almost like the the legitimization of those solutions, you know, people are having to really solidify any Security issues or redundancy issues a couple of questions for you my friend first is from Brooks All right, it says here Brooks is here flame Used to be a product where it was hard to get media out as a middleman because it was where you finished But it has gotten so much better as a middleman now. Thank you for that Now with the effects tab It seems I'm being asked to color and do effects together more but still hand off the files any thoughts I'm looking into a workflow where it's easier to apply color and effects and export them onto the original size of the media Our friend Jeff Kyle which is on the chat I seen him some time ago also had that kind of So I also had that question some some times ago we kind of work some workflows because of the conform you are able to Update not only the segments of sequences, but also the content of your source in your reel So there are ways you can do that. They are not super efficient. You can make them work. There are some challenges. So but that's part of the the kind of connected delivery because yes, we are asked to deliver Finished content in many ways. So being a complete sequence or being affected sources at their original rate and resolutions So that these are part of our big list of thing. We'd like to have a look at because most and most Production houses want to have access to the content you modify so they can Repurpose the content later, right? So they want to don't want to want to be independent So that means you need to share the assets with them. So that boss some some Ethics question. So what do you have to provide as far as content to your customers? You hide where your IP is but I would say for media and effects should be able to share that with your customers setups 3d 3d shapes or whatever. Do you want to share that? I don't know But yeah, I mean we we have that in our our to-do list being able to deliver content in ways that could be repurposed Being finished or being in progress Another question from from Joe Jinder Talking about third-party integration When can we expect flame to get more robust and infused with tools like element 3d and 2d character animator and Enhanced particle system. He's hoping that more tools like this will make flame shine is the question related to work with third-party developers and and Include their technology and our products. Is it what I'm hearing? Is it the request or because you said particles? We do have a particle system that is aged, but There are technology available that could be licensed I guess so it's it depends Of your requirements what you expect from this technology OFX I'm seeing could be a way that would mean Probably have the OFX technology in our 3d environment to have you know a more robust and more robust workflows these are things that You know we talked about They're not simple because not all third parties have their technology on all the operating system we support There's there's integration. So when you integrate third-party technology in your code base. There are challenges They are i mean they have to be rock solid So because you don't want flame to crash because a third party Implement the technology is not behaving like it should There's memory management the graphical memory and the RAM memory So you want to ensure that you don't need 1000 gigaframe on your system to make sure everything is working as expected Because that's gonna be a high highly high high high high high cost So yeah, I mean, there are a lot of challenges. But I mean, that's interesting. So I mean, again, I would invite you to propose these on Flame Feedback. Flame Feedback is a great place to send your ideas. And there's also a great connection with all the users who can have a look at your request and comment. I mean, more data you give us, as far as idea of workflow and better, we can discuss that internally, but also have the conversation with users that might say, well, do that or please don't because A, B or C. So that's interesting. We want to have this exchange with the people. That's important. Yeah, my favorite posting of, I guess, of the quarter or what comes out three times a year. After every release, my favorite posting is the list of all the things that were included in that release that were part of Flame Feedback. So especially when they include mine. But I can't stress that enough. If someone has an idea or a suggestion, something they want, absolutely submit it to Flame Feedback and encourage others to upvote it. That's how it gets higher on the list. Yes, and yeah, absolutely. I invite you to put your request without. So visit the request already logged. Go there and see what people were asking for because somebody might be asking for something that makes no sense. And because of A, B and C, like I said, and then we want to have the conversation between users. I mean, we're doing Flame for you guys. We need your help to be able to shape it in a way that it makes sense and can evolve in the future. And you might have ideas that we haven't think about or connectivity between tools that we haven't think about. Flame is about that. It's the, many people are hacking the tools to do something that we haven't think about. So I mean, please go there, vote or vote and give the feedback. But again, more information we have about the workflows or challenges you have and better we can shape the product to fit it. And like I said before for connected conform, nobody asked us for cost connected conform. They were asking us A, B or C or D but then you take all these requests and then you say, well, at the end what users want to do is these things that can be probably repurposed in the application to do something like connected conform, machine learning or whatever. So yeah, I mean the exchange with the customer base is super important. Question from Yuri. Are there any plans for camera tracking improvements? Of course. Imagine there are lots of plans. Yeah, camera tracker is super important. It's in the plan. We are looking at various things that you might see in the future. I'm not able to tell you more about that right now but stay tuned, we might tell you things. Or not. And yes, there are plans to execute the plan to answer a quick question on the chat. I mean, you would imagine how long the list of things to do is, right? I mean, we have people doing advertising, film, animation and everybody has a big list of things that they want to have to see in flame. And yes, it's always difficult to pick and choose and build a coherent release plan that is sometimes, you know, focus on some aspect of the product or sometimes we need to give things to different kind of workflows. It's always difficult. We'd like to, you know, do tons of features but sometimes, you know, it's better to do less and ensure that the quality is there. When you were explaining, you know, how, yes, there may be certain things that maybe we can tell you in the future. That's when the background behind you started playing in reverse. It was wonderful. It was very well timed. Regression. Do you have any, what's the, if you can share it, what's like the one thing that you're excited about in terms of new technologies or capabilities, one thing that you think flame could really benefit from? But not really specific on a given technology but the whole collaboration, the whole collaboration, collaborative workflows with users, doing things and being able to synchronize or remember of the team which they could derive their work and connect that to something else. A more holistic approach to connect and conform but not only conform related but more application workflow related, right? Where one could, a team could take decision, distribute work, synchronize different local or remote artists or artists using other application and then having flame as being the master location where everything goes with ability to communicate, to link, to lock, to, again, I mean, it's a collaboration with a big C. It sounds a little toxic if you don't mind me dropping the T-word. You're right. I mean, some of you might remember toxic, something we developed at the beginning, well, at the end of the 90s, at the beginning of the 2000s and it was that, it was media collaboration for people taught that this need. Toxic was a bit, you know, was there before the need and that's sometimes very bad in technology. If you have technology that people don't realize they need, well, they won't use it and then the work you've done is wasted until some years after you realize, well, I needed that technology but it doesn't exist anymore. So that's sad. So people sometimes have a hard time realizing when they see a functionality, a feature or a workflow that they need this because right now they don't. And it's difficult to predict the future. It's difficult to put yourself in a workflow that you never explored. It's when you need it that you realize that, oh, it makes sense. Quinn has a question for you. It's if you could set the agenda, what feature or features would you like to prioritize? Well, supporting new world media formats is quite high in my list because if you want to finish, you have to start. So you need to be able to support the format. But first, I would probably, if I had the power, I would probably talk with the different camera vendors and tell them, well, guys, inventing a format every six months or a year is not a great idea. So we should probably find a format that suits everybody, format that would probably also have a great way to insert metadata, capture raw and then make that open source. Instead of having 55 formats. Is that all? The value is, well, it's low. The value isn't the camera, not on the media on which you record. So I mean, create great acquisition device and make them record to a format that everybody can read and we don't have to, and it's powerful. I mean, it's no data loss and all that. It's original metadata. So that would be, of course it won't happen because if you vendor as its priorities and they want to lock you in their workflow, what, of course, that's it. Second is really, like I said, the collaboration aspect of using products and not only our products, but also third-party products to ensure that, I mean, we know we're not alone in pipeline, so we have to open some time our Kimono and ensure that you can, you know, take the BLG, the baseline BLG approach, right? I mean, being able to compute the data of another third-party application without having to render grades for, I mean, terabytes and then we conform and then back and forth. So that you don't want. You want to exchange with the data and have the bed products to compute the data of the different applications. So I think this is important, but I might be alone. I don't know. No, I think you're 100% on, you know, spot on and even in the chat, you're getting a lot of applause. Okay, good. For that, my friend. Thank you. I think if you ever do decide to write a memoir or, you know, autobiography, you should call it. If you want to finish, you have to start. I think that's perfect. I like that. It's very deep. Do they have to pay you royalties on that or? Oh, no, no, no, no, no, never, never. This opens, it's open source. That's fine. Open source is good. I mean, they are great ideas. There are a lot of people who found solution to problems and they just need to ensure that people collaborate with them to advance these formats. So, I mean, I'm out for it. Yeah, I think if we can get one camera format, one color space, you know, and anything else, please, you want to talk about something, a mess we made for ourselves. Well, does anybody have any other questions for Stefan? I don't want to take away any more of his days. Obviously before the sun sets, you know, or moves at all. Well, I put some screens, I'm fine. I'm not going to be read at the end of the meeting. So that's good. Perfect. And meanwhile, I'm here in this void, this formless void, which is actually a very nice guest room. Does anybody have any other questions for Stefan? All right. Well, thank you very much, my friend. I really appreciate you taking the time. I thank you very much.  So the whole team is on logic. So we see your post guys. So sometimes we don't answer because we feel that sometime the community is great. The community answers and we see a great, great collaboration, great exchange, great sharing of knowledge. This is fantastic. My wish, if I had some wishes to ensure to go to Fame Feedback, put your request, ensure we are aware not only of what you need, but we, and very often people tend to give solution and not problems. So tell us what doesn't work. Tell us what you need to achieve. Don't tell me, go at this button in this menu for a, I mean, no, we want to be able to work with you to understand problems, to solve them. And have the community also interact with the other users and try to come up with ideas to solve these problems. Or have you think about that and have the same conversation? So Fame Feedback is a great place to do that. Logic also, I mean, this is great. My last thing would be when we publish a release like the update one, take the 15 minutes to go through to what's new. There's a great, great secrets that we hide there. It's a small document that you need to read. I mean, it's not a user manual with 5,000 pages. It's really 15,000 pages that tells you what we fixed, what we broke. And what we've added to the product. We add more and we fix more than we break, but sometimes we want to tell you what we've done. That will solve a lot of problems because I've seen too many people upgrading to the new release, not knowing the content, not knowing the changes, and then feel problem when they have to deliver something because they don't know what they were using, what they were working with. And that's bad. You need to master the craft. You need to ensure that the software you work with you're confident to can operate it. And sometimes we have to change things in the application. So please, what's new should be your first thing you read before you install the software. Go through the menus, go through the tabs with the new addition and have fun. Couldn't agree more, my friend. Well, thank you very much. Enjoy the rest of the beautiful day. Thank you very much, guys. And say hello to everybody at the trunk shop for us, please. Absolutely, be safe. I mean, we know we, I mean, these are difficult times in some part of the world. It's more difficult than others. We're gonna go over that, that's for sure. Adaptation is something that everybody needs. We need to adapt, human being adapted for the last million years or beyond. And so it's sometime rough, but we need to stay positive, work together, sometime push aside the politics and think about we are human being and we can collaborate. And these would be my wise words for this Sunday afternoon. I love it. I love it, Stefan. Thank you very much, man. Thank you and see you on Logic. We'll see you on Logic. Let me just share my screen here and we'll close this out. All right. Coming up on Logic Live next week, we have the Sausage King of Chicago. No, not Abe from him, but Brian Higgins himself, creative director from Flavor. Definitely looking forward to that. In fact, I'm gonna put in the chat right now. Zoom links so you can register for the upcoming sessions. That's gonna be followed by Andy Davis on July 19th, who's got some amazing stuff planned. Super excited for this, using game engine tools to enhance your VFX work. That's followed by Navin Srivastava all from Toronto on July 26th. Autodesk's own Fred Warren will join us on August 2nd, followed by Randy McInty on August 9th. And on August 16th, using Flame with Shotgun in production. And that was based on some feedback. If anybody has any suggestions for future episodes of Logic Live, please let me know. And coming hopefully this week, I'm gonna have the first episode of a new Logic podcast for everybody to check out. Very much excited for that. Looking forward to that. You can find all kinds of great content, including past episodes of Logic Live on Logic.tv. And Joe Jinder, you'd asked about the feedback form. You can find a link to that on Logic.tv under links. Please take a minute if you haven't already and subscribe to our YouTube feed. And again, we wanna thank our friends at AJA for sponsoring Logic Live. We're very excited to have them on board, as well as Cinesis Oceana. Thank you for your continued support solutions, integration and support for digital content creators. Find out all about them at Cinesis.io. That's gonna do it for this week, everybody. I'll see you next time.