Ladies and gentlemen, welcome to An Insight, an idea with Dr. Dean Ornish. I am Nancy Gibbs. I'm the editor of Time. Talk about someone who needs no introduction. Dr. Ornish is obviously a physician, a bestselling author, an advisor to princes and presidents, and a fervent and artful evangelist for a complete rethinking of how we approach health care. And our session today, the idea we are exploring, is about lifestyle medicine. And so the obvious place to start is to define what you mean by lifestyle medicine. Well, thank you. I'm very appreciative for the opportunity to be here today with you. So thank you. Lifestyle medicine is, I think, the most important trend in medicine today. And it's medicine. It's lifestyle is treatment. We all know that lifestyle changes can help prevent disease, particularly heart disease and diabetes and things like this. But this is lifestyle as treatment. And what my colleagues and I have been able to show over the last 37 years or so is that if you make big enough changes in lifestyle, not just diet, but exercise, stress management, things like yoga and meditation, and perhaps most important, how much love and intimacy and support you have, that our bodies have this remarkable capacity to begin healing and much more quickly than we had once realized if we can treat the underlying cause, which to a large degree are these lifestyle choices. And so in a series of studies over many years, we've been able to show that first with heart disease, that even severe heart disease can be reversed, even within just a few weeks, and the more you change, the more you improve. We then did studies showing that men with early stage prostate cancer could slow, stop, and even reverse the progression. And if it's true for prostate cancer, it'll likely be true for breast cancer as well. We're planning a study on that now. That type two diabetes can be reversed in most people simply by changing lifestyle. And we found that when you change your lifestyle, it changes your genes, hundreds of them, over 500 genes in just only three months, turning on the genes that protect us, turning off the genes that cause these chronic diseases. And most recently, we found that even the aging process can begin to reverse at a cellular level. We did a study with Dr. Elizabeth Blackburn, who got the Nobel Prize about five years ago, for discovering telomerase, the enzyme that lengthens and repairs telomeres, the ends of our chromosomes that control how long we live. And we found that telomeres tend to get shorter over time.  We found we could actually lengthen the telomeres. It's actually the only intervention that's been shown to do that. And so these, you know, we tend to think of advances in medicine as being a new drug, a new laser, something really high-tech and expensive. And we're finding in our studies, we use these very high-tech, expensive state-of-the-art measures to prove how powerful these very simple and low-tech and low-cost interventions can be. Do you think it is human nature that makes us tend to privilege the high-tech intervention over the more simple and instinctive? Or do you think that's driven by economic incentive? Why do you think that is that we always go to the new technology or the new drug, as opposed to what you're talking about? Well, I think it's all of that. I think certainly that, you know, we all would love a quick fix, you know, somebody to give a magic bullet or wave a magic wand and say you're cured. And some things are like that, you know, antibiotics for treating certain conditions can be really curative in that way. But, and we also have this kind of fascination with technology, it seems like it's very powerful and glittering and fun and all of that. And people have a hard time believing that it means that something as simple as, you know, my lifestyle could actually reverse these conditions and therefore prevent them. I mean, and even more interesting is that with all this talk about personalized medicine and so on, it was the same lifestyle intervention for all these different conditions. You know, it wasn't like there was one diet lifestyle program for reversing heart disease and another one for diabetes and so on. It was the same for all of them. And we also found something that surprised me, which was that the more people change, the better they got in every way we could measure, no matter how esoteric the mechanism one, at any age. And that's a very empowering message to give people. Well, I'm gonna want you to go through each of the four that you mentioned, but I'm curious first, just because this is, it still counts as something of a radical idea and it's not where you started out in your journey. How did you, how did you get to this idea? Well, it is radical in a sense of radical means to get to the root of something. You know, when I lecture sometimes I show a cartoon of doctors busily mopping up the floor around the sink that's overflowing but nobody's turning off the faucet. And you know, like when you get put on diabetes medications or blood pressure pills or cholesterol or in drugs and the patient says, how long do I have to take these doctor and the doctor says, forever, right? It's like, how long do I have to mop up the floor? Like forever. Well, why don't we just turn off the faucet? And so it's really about radical in sense of getting to the root of what really causes these conditions. And we find that, you know, when people do that, they get better so much quicker than we had once imagined. And did you start out thinking you were going to be a more traditional doctor before you found your way into the branch of medicine that you're essentially inventing? Well, I got interested in this because I was slightly depressed when I was in college. I almost killed myself. I was so depressed and it's, I wrote about this in a couple of my books and there's not time to talk about it here but fortunately, but it was basically, I felt like I was stupid and that I didn't know anything and now that I was in a school with a lot of really smart people it was just a matter of time before they figured out what a mistake they made in letting me in. But I also had this kind of spiritual vision with, you know, all the cliche, you know, kind of Cecil B. DeMille special effects just to make sure that I realized it was a vision.  It was like, well, I know what I'll do. I'll just kill myself and then I can find peace. And that got me interested in as an ecumenical spiritual teacher that I was working with and began changing my diet and he said if you just change your diet and eat a plant-based diet and exercise and love more and walk and do these things that, you know, you'll get better. And I began to experience that sense of when you quiet down your mind and body enough however you do that, that you feel more peaceful. But not because those techniques brought you peace. That's our natural status to be peaceful unless we disturb it. And I think in one of the ultimate ironies we end up running after all these things and if I just had more money or power or sex or beauty or accomplishment or whatever then I'd be happy. And once you set up that view of the world generally, however it turns out, you're not happy. And that's what I wasn't happy, you know. Until you get it, you're not happy. If someone else gets it, you're really not happy. And even if you get it, it's very seductive. It's like, ah, I got it. Now it's, now I'm happy. But it doesn't last. It's like, well, now what? You know, or so what? Big deal. So this teacher was a man named Swami Satya Dananda and people say, what are you a Hindu? He'd say, no, I'm an undo, you know. And the undo button on the computer has been always my favorite. And our bodies have this remarkable capacity to undo a lot of that damage. So I began to get little glimpses of what it meant to feel peaceful not because I got something I thought I needed, but I just was quieting down what was there already. And so I was able to do well enough to get into medical school. And then when I was in medical school, I was learning how to do bypass surgery with Michael DeBakey, the eminent heart surgeon. And it was, again, an example of high tech medicine at its ultimate at the time.  He'd tell them they were cured. And more often than not, they'd go home and do all the things that cost the problem in the first place. They'd smoke, and eat junk food, not manage stress, not exercise. And then often their bypassers would clog up. So we'd cut them open again. I said, there's got to be a better way. So that's when I took a year off between my second and third years in medical school, put 10 men and women in a hotel for a month, and that began kind of a lifelong journey for me. So there are four elements. So let's do those one at a time. Because I think people want to understand when you say the more you embrace each of these, the greater the progress, the success. So I want to know how radical a lifestyle change we're talking about. So let's start with diet, which is the most obvious. It's the one probably you were first identified with. What kind of a diet change are you talking about for people? You're right. It's the one I'm most identified with. And it's the one I'm probably least interested in. But it's so kind of funny how that tends to happen. OK, I promise we'll end up with the one I know you're most interested in. It's basically a Whole Foods plant-based diet. It's also low in sugar and refined carbs. And it's naturally low in fat.  It's mainly fruits, vegetables, whole grains, legumes, soy products in their natural forms, which are low in the disease, causing substances in high. And there's literally hundreds of thousands of protective substances that you find in foods like that. And it's also moderate exercise, walking a half an hour a day, yoga and meditation, or whatever way used to manage stress, and more love and support. And the more you change, the more you improve. So on the diet front, we've been having a great big conversation this year about fat. One of the most talked about covers we did at time was about eat butter.  Yeah. That wasn't my favorite Time Magazine. I don't think it would be that way. But the theme of that issue, or the theme of that article, which has almost become a meme, because it's been repeated so often in this echo chamber that people begin to believe it, is that Americans have been told to eat less fat. They're fatter than ever, so clearly low fat has failed. So I went to the USDA database, and I said, is that really true?  And it turns out that every decade, since 1950, people have been eating more fat, actually 67% more fat, more sugar, 37% more sugar, more calories, 800 calories per person, and more meat, 57 pounds more meat. So we may have been told to eat less fat, we're eating more fat, more sugar, more calories. And so it's not surprising that we weigh more. So sugar is important, fat is important, but animal protein seems to be particularly important. I did all these debates with Dr. Atkins before he died, probably of heart disease, that's another story. And he was always the low carb guy, and I was pegged as the low fat guy. Unfortunately, those labels kind of stuck, but animal protein, there was an article that came out by Levine in a journal called Cell Metabolism last year. And they found that people ate a lot of animal protein, independent of the fat and cholesterol and sugar, had 75% increased risk of premature death from all causes, a 400% increased risk of cancer, and a 500% increased risk of diabetes. So I think we need to move beyond individual components, low fat, low carb, you know, it's all of that. And so, and to me an optimal diet is a whole foods plant-based diet that's naturally low, both in fat, in refined carbs, and high in the good carbs, and enough of the good fats, the omega-3s and so on. So if there's a meme around exercise right now, and you're right, that each of these always has its fads and trends. So the one right now is not your half hour of walking, it's the one minute workout, or it's the seven minute workout. And so, can you talk about that? No, I think it's true, these studies are showing that if you really do intense exercise for short bursts, that gives you many of the benefits of longer, less intensive exercise. But it's also true that, you know, just walking in half an hour a day, and not even all that fast or even all at once, can cut your risk of premature death in half. So a little goes a long way. And the consistency is more important than the duration. And I wrote a book called The Spectrum, which is based on this finding that the more you change, the more you improve. And part of what I've learned is that even more than being healthy, people want to feel free and in control. And so, instead of, I chaired Google Health with Marissa Meyer from 2007 to 2009. We were kind of coming up with all these complex algorithms for personalizing diet and lifestyle interventions. And one day I said, you know, I think we're really going about this in completely the wrong way. Instead of making this so complicated, and telling people what they should be doing, let's ask people how much they want to change, and then support that degree of change. So then, it's much more compassionate.  And then you have all those toxic emotions. You know, I've failed. I mean, the whole language of behavioral change has this kind of moralistic quality.  And once you call foods bad, it's a very small step to saying I'm a bad person because I eat bad foods, you know, and it's all over then. Say, look, food is just food. But some foods are healthier than others. So I categorize foods from the healthiest to the least healthy, and say, what matters most is your overall way of eating and living.  If you don't have time to do an intense workout one day, do a little more the next. You don't have time to meditate for an hour, do it for a minute. Whatever you do, there's a corresponding benefit. And that way, you can't fail. Now, I know from our fascinating conversations leading up to today that the one of these four that you are most animated by is about love and support, which I would have said is the one that people may have the least control over. So how does that one work? Well, you know, we tend to think that the time we spend with our friends and families are kind of the luxury that we do after we've done all the important stuff. But what the studies are showing, that it is the important stuff. You know, that study after study has shown that people who are lonely and depressed and isolated are three to 10 times more likely to get sick and die prematurely than those who have a sense of love and connection and community.  If your friends, friends are obese, you're 25%. And if your friends, friends, friends is obese, you're 10% more likely, even if you've never met them. Now, how does that work? Because we're just so interconnected.  And I say, no, no, no, look at, I've got the, you know, here are the quantitative arteriograms and the cardiac positron emission tomography and radionuclide ventriculography, blah, blah, blah. And then one day I said, you know what? It is touchy-feely. That's what makes it work. Because we are touchy-feely creatures. We're creatures of community. That's been a running theme throughout Davos this year, is that we are all interconnected and we rise or fall together. And we, you know, part of the value of science is that it can raise awareness. And many people aren't aware that the time that we spend with our friends and family and loved ones is the most important predictor of your health and survival, more than smoking, more than diet, more than anything. I wrote a book called Love and Survival about this back in 1998. There were hundreds and thousands of studies showing that, again, if you spend time with your friends and family and loved ones, that's probably the most healthy thing that you can do. But a lot of the conversation we've been having this week about connectedness and it's important is technological, it's virtual connectedness. And so I'm wondering whether you think that the capacity to stay in touch with friends and family electronically enhances this part of our lives or gets in the way of it because it is so easy then to in a way be isolated in our little virtual world where there isn't actually any genuine contact. How does that work? Well, technology is neither good or bad. It's how you use it, as you know. It's just another form of power. And it can be used to connect us when I'm traveling and I can FaceTime with my wife and our kids. It's a beautiful thing, you know? If I'm watching, especially my 14-year-old Lucas and his friends and they're all sitting together and they're all texting and they're not even talking to each other, that's a kind of a way of using technology to isolate each other. So it really depends on how we use it. But studies have shown that virtual support groups are very powerful and the best, of course, is when you can be with someone face-to-face. There's an energy, I think, that gets transmitted that we don't necessarily know how to measure, but you can feel it. And I think that energy, that intimacy is healing.  The word yoga is from the Sanskrit to meaning to yoke to unite, to bring together. Anything that creates intimacy is healing. These are really old ideas that we're rediscovering. You mentioned a second ago about the Touchy Feely California doctor. So I'm going to ask you to do an exercise. Channel your critics. Channel my critics? Channel your critics.  You mean over time, like in the history of these things? Oh, god. I don't think I've ever been asked that question before. Well, I'm going to give you a chance to answer them. OK, OK. I will channel my inner critic and my inner rebuttal. Well, I remember when I was an intern, I was at Harvard's Mass General Hospital. And I was on the wards in one of the attending physician at the time, who was world famous, wrote the standard textbooks. He said, Dean, you really think the mind affects the body? That's like the stupidest idea I've ever heard of. And I looked at him. I said, have you ever had an erection? It's like things that just seem so obvious to me are considered radical, because they didn't fit within the conventional wisdom of what we've been led to believe. And of course, the whole idea that heart disease could be reversed. People thought that was a crazy idea when I started doing this work 38 years ago. And I was a medical student. And I said, well, look, you can cause heart disease in dogs and cats and pigs and rabbits and monkeys if you make them smoke or eat junk food or not let them exercise or make them stressed and isolated. And you can reverse it. Why would people be any different? Oh, no, it can't be done. And so we did the first study. And then people, it was kind of an eye-opening experience for me about when you're doing something that's true. And I didn't realize, because I was a medical student, I didn't know enough to know how disruptive it really was. I just thought, well, let's just try it. One of the nice things about being a medical student is you'll do things you wouldn't do if you knew better. And so when we showed that it was reversible, people didn't believe it. But beyond that, there was a visceral reaction that was way out of proportion to just like a scientific skepticism. And I began to realize that when you're doing something that doesn't fit the conventional wisdom, that's truly disruptive, it's threatening to the order that paradigm or that belief provides. And so it goes beyond just this particular issue. It's like the whole fabric begins to feel like it may come undone. And it creates that kind of visceral sense of chaos that people want to like just put it down. And so over time, we did a series of studies with increasing randomized controlled trials, increasing evidence. Now that idea that heart disease is reversible has become mainstream. Other people have replicated that work. So then the skepticism and the criticism went, well, you live in California, it's an altered state, they'll do anything there, this'll never play in Peoria. And why would you want to do that anyway? We can just take some Lipitoris of statin drug and that'll take care of it. And this pervasive idea that taking a pill is easy and everyone will do it. But changing diet and lifestyle is difficult, if not impossible, turns out not to be true. I mean, drug companies own data have shown that less than half of the people who are prescribed statin drugs are taking them just three to six months later. And why do you think that is? Because they're fear-based. We don't really think about it, but it's like take this pill forever. It's not gonna make you feel better. Hopefully it won't make you feel worse to prevent something really awful from happening years down the road, like a heart attack or stroke that you don't want to think about. So people don't think about it. I mean, for a few months, for like six weeks after someone's had a heart attack or stroke or something really bad, they'll do pretty much anything that the doctor tells them. And then they get off it because fear is not a sustainable motivator. And that's just true in politics. I mean, Al Gore talked about this eloquently earlier this week, you know, that when he first did an inconvenient truth, it was like everybody's buying fluorescent light bulbs and driving smaller cars and then like people kind of forgot about it. Because the idea that the species might get annihilated is just goes all the way back to the Superman comic books I read as a kid and Jor-El tried to get everybody to stop Krypton from exploding. And nobody wanted to believe it. It's too awful to think about something really awful might happen. So people stopped thinking about it. So fear is not sustainable, but joy and pleasure are. And when you make these changes, most people find that they feel so much better so quickly. It reframes the reason for making them from fear of dying, which is not sustainable to joy of living, which is. Their pain goes away.  And within a few days to a few weeks, they're pain-free in most cases. And they can do all that.  They think more clearly. They have more energy. The latest data is showing through a process called neurogenesis and neuroplasticity. You can actually grow so many brain neurons in just a few weeks that you're breaking it measurably bigger.  You know, when you get older, you kind of, people tend to forget names and things like that. Like where did I put my keys, you know? So, these things are so much more dynamic. That's really what makes them sustainable. Because there's no point in giving up something that you enjoy unless you get something back that's better. And although the adherence to statin drugs is so bad, we've trained now over 60 hospitals and clinics throughout the country. And we're getting 85 to 90% adherence after a year to a very intensive lifestyle program to reverse heart disease. And people thought that'd be impossible. And the reason is twofold. One is that they feel better. And the other goes back to what we talked about earlier, the sense of love and community. That our support groups are not just support groups in the sense of, you know, exchanging recipes and types of running shoes. It's a, we create a safe environment that enables people to, and encourages them to, very intentionally let down their emotional defenses and talk openly and authentically about what's really going on in their lives without fear that someone's going to make fun of them or give them glib advice or the usual kinds of things. Now in the past, you know, if you had two or three people growing up in a neighborhood that, you know, that people knew you.  They knew where you messed up and you knew that they knew and they knew that you knew that they knew and they're still there for you. And there's something really primal about being seen and heard and that you're, you know, warts and all and that people are still there for you. And so our support groups are trying to wait to recreate that. And people will say things like, you know, and I'm amazed at how quickly we can do that even within the first or second support group.  I may look like I'm really successful but I'm not. And someone else will say, instead of saying, oh well, why don't you send them to a drug rehab program? You know, it makes you feel more distant. They'll say, gosh, we try to get people to talk about their feelings because our feelings are really what connect us. And to say, gosh, that feels terrible or gosh, I'm so sorry or gosh, my kid has another problem or I used to have a drug problem in mind, say whatever it is. And suddenly you don't feel so alone and ashamed and embarrassed. You feel, it doesn't fix the kid on drugs or whatever it is, but it fixes that, something even more important, which is that profound sense of isolation and alienation and depression. You know, I've given the matriculation lecture at the Army War College the last five years where they trained the future generals and joint chiefs of staff from all four branches of the military. And I talked about the power of love at the Army War College, which- How'd that go over? It was actually, well, we're seas. I thought I'd have kind of a bit of a Dr. Strangelove quality too, but Stan McChrystal, the former four-star general, made a video that gave me more street cred which was a lot better than kind of the West California doctor going there talking about these things.  One active duty soldier kills themselves every day, 365 days a year. More in the country as a whole, the number one category of prescription drugs the last 20 years are antidepressants. There are a lot of the lonely, depressed, isolated people out there with the disruption of the social networks that used to get people that sense of community. So in one sense, when I listen to you, it sounds so obvious that I can feel better. My rampant memory loss can be reversed that heart disease and certain kinds of cancer all can be turned back and I can stop aging. It all sounds so irresistible that I have to say then what are the obstacles to widespread adoption of the arguments that you have? Well, the biggest obstacle- And how do you see that changing? Well, it is changing. That's what's so cool, Nancy, is that I used to think in kind of my naivete, that if we just did good science, that will change medical practice. And to some degree it did, but not nearly as much as I'd hoped. And through our nonprofit Preventive Medicine Research Institute, beginning in 1993, to answer the question is will this play in Peoria? We began training hospitals and clinics around the country.  And we found that we could get 85 to 90% adherence in all these different sites, bigger changes in lifestyle, better clinical outcomes. Highmark Blue Cross Blue Shield, which was covering our program, began to provide it in West Virginia, Nebraska, and Pennsylvania. They got the same outcomes and they cut their overall cost in half. But the painful lesson for me was that a number of those sites closed down not because of the science or the efficacy or the cost savings, but the lack of reimbursement. So that set me off on it. And we were going insurance company by insurance company. It's very hard to get people to do things visionary. Insurance world doesn't select, it selects for people who like to manage risk. That's why they go into it. So I realized if we could just get Medicare to pay for it, then most of the other insurance companies would follow suit. And Bill Clinton, when he was president, was very strongly supportive of this. We worked with, Hillary asked me to work with the chefs to cook for them. So, and then I became one of his consulting doctors and remained that way since 1993. But also Newt Gingrich, when he was Speaker of the House, came to one of our retreats with his daughter. And he became very strongly supportive. There wasn't a whole lot of things that they agreed on at the time. And 20 members of the Senate, 30 members of the House across the political spectrum, members of the heads of the AARP, and most of the major medical societies got behind it. And I thought, well, great. You know, this'll, we'll get this unfairly quickly. 16 years later, Medicare agreed to cover our program. And they created a new benefit category. Actually got an act of Congress pass to give them the statutory authority to do that. So now that Medicare is paying for it, the good news is most of the other insurance companies, you know, Mark Bertolini, the CEO of Aetna was here earlier, their Aetna is paying for it and well-pointed and most of the Blue Cross Blue Shield plans and others. And so we're really trying to create, and we are creating a new paradigm of healthcare. If it's reimbursable, then it's sustainable. You know, as the wrappers say, it's all about the Benjamins, you know? And now it is. And so, and if it's reimbursable, it not only changes medical practice, but even medical education. And there's a convergence of forces that after doing this for almost four decades, it's finally the right idea at the right time. Because at the same time that the limitations of high-tech medicine are becoming increasingly documented. I mean, for example, studies have shown that if you're not in the middle of having a heart attack, that angioplasties and stents don't work, you know? That bypass surgery only works for a very small percentage of people who have the most severe disease, maybe one or two percent. We spent almost $80 billion just on those two operations which were essentially dangerous, invasive, expensive, and largely ineffective. For treating prostate cancer, the New England Journal of Medicine had a large study, one out of 49 men who's treated for early stage prostate cancer benefits. The others often end up in diapers because they're incontinent, or they're impotent and can't have sex. So we maim people in the most personal ways, and yet only one out of 49 people benefits from that. We found that we could actually stop or reverse the progression of early stage prostate cancer by simply changing lifestyle. People say, why are you doing this radical intervention? Why don't you do something more conventional, like cutting people's chests open instead of walking, meditating, eating vegetables, and so on. The same is true for type two diabetes. If you get your blood sugar down with drugs. I was going to ask about chronic diseases that are increasingly a huge global health. Well, yeah, I mean, half of the American population already is either diabetic or pre-diabetic, and United Healthcare estimated it's a $3.3 trillion cost. That's clearly not sustainable.  But if you can get your hemoglobin A1C, your average blood sugar down below seven, you can prevent each and every one of the human costs and the economic costs. So at the same time that the limitations of drugs and surgery are becoming clear, particularly for chronic diseases, the power of these very simple lifestyle changes is also becoming well documented through our studies and others. And now that we're moving into the era of Obamacare, whatever you think about it, it's turning all the incentives on their ear. So in the past, in a fee-for-service environment, the more operations you do, the more money you make. In the Obamacare environment, here's X amount of dollars to take care of somebody, you get to keep us left over. So interventions that involve lifestyle medicine are now the most valuable because now Medicare is paying for this and they're paying it at a high enough level that it makes it really attractive and they save money on the backend because we're reducing the utilization. Because we're running out of time, you have in this room and throughout this building an extraordinary collection of individuals and leaders in government and in private business. If you wanted this room and those watching to take away one idea, one personal change, but one change about how they approach those who they lead, what would that be? Well, in simplest terms, eat well, love more, stress less, and move more. Any one of those things would be good. But again, I'm trying to get away from a reductionistic one thing, but to say, if you can do all these things to the degree you can do them, you're gonna feel better, you're gonna look better, and you're gonna be a lot happier. Dr. Dean Ornish, thank you very much. Great pleasure. Thank you.


Run it up. Run it back. Run it up. Run it back. Run it back. Run it up. Run it back. Run it up. Happy Wednesday morning. Now it's officially official. The NBA season starts tonight. We had two games last night, but tonight the entire docket is open up for everyone. This is run it back to my right. Stadium insiders, Sean Charania to my left. Chandler Parsons, just had another baby. I mean, you did it, but you know how that works. Lou Williams on the end. Are you feeling, it's the third day. How are you feeling? I'm getting there. Feeling a little bit more each day, right? Let's do it. And you've got the best in the business here teaching. I got it. It's my TV bit. It's easy. It's easy. So yeah, we had some fun last night. Basketball was played. Banners were raised. Rings were given out. There was some smack talk as well, but here we go. What do we think about the ceremony? Everyone loved it? Or meh. Yeah, I mean, it's a little dragged out. It used to be even more dragged out though.  Yeah. Every front office member. This was pretty tame in my opinion. It's tough to play the team that's doing this. You know what I mean? Like I talked about yesterday, that's brutal, but listen, they deserve it. If you got a problem with it, do something about it. Well, a game was played shortly thereafter and the Nuggets took care of business, picked up right where they left off, beat the Nikers, 1-19, 1-0-7. Jokic, first triple double of the season. I predict 82 triple doubles for Nikola Jokic. Jamal Murray had a good night. LeBron was legit. But then there was Anthony Davis, AKA the face of the Lakers. At least that's what LeBron said. He had zero points in the second half. Zero. Faces don't do that, do they? It's tough and obviously that's going to be the headline because of all the expectations that he has coming into the season. Everyone's talking about how good of a shape he's in, how this is now. His team, LeBron's taking the backseat and early he was aggressive and I loved the way he came down. He was going at Jokic and he got that first early foul that enabled him defensively. It just confuses me that in the second half when they were making runs he couldn't get to the free throw line. He couldn't get one bucket. Again, Charles said it last night for him to take that next step to be in MVP conversations you can't have games like this. Especially after all the talk back and forth with how he's sick of the nuggets, he's taking it here and this stuff and you go and drop a goose egg in the second half of the opening night. It's just a little concerning as a fan moving forward that maybe this guy hasn't changed. Maybe he's not that aggressive dog number one option right now and that's tough to be saying it on... Night one. Night one, that's tough. But again, it's one game. No, you pick everything you need from only... Deep breath and you play against the one guy that can expose anybody. Yeah, we don't want to overreact but I think for him to be the 1A guy on that team he has to be more aggressive down the stretch. Especially in the third and fourth quarter it was a what, two to four point game. Yeah. He has to demand more touches. I would like to see him with his back to the basket and a little bit more opposed to shooting so many jump shots and just putting more pressure on the defense. But like just mentioned, shouldn't panic game one. It happens to the best of them. What's crazy is their head coach comes out and says I want him to take six three-pointers. Can you imagine if someone told us that? It took two. It took two three-pointers and the head coach is making it a point for him to be aggressive. It doesn't make sense to me. Here's what I want to ask about Yoakich and Adi because if you dropped a person on the planet and he said these two gentlemen do the same job they would easily be like oh Adi's the better of the two. Just physically everything looks and yet it is not that way. How wide would you say the gap is between Yoakich and Adi? It's massive. It's unbelievable. And as a former player like I've never played against prime Yoakich like he with the things he's doing right now you don't understand it until you physically go up against him. It's his angles. It's his spacing. It looks like he's playing with a gun tapping the ball to him and this is a seven foot 260 pound defensive player of the year candidate that he's just toying with and we all know how good he can you know space the floor and pass the ball but it's when you look at their bodies next to each other he shouldn't be able to do this kind of stuff. It doesn't make sense. He's barely getting off the ground.  He's not leaving the earth but dominating the most athletic guy on the court. It truly is my bog. By the way Jasmine Watkins that's not right. You can't be putting that on the Internet. Like it was quick. That's what I love when NBA season is back because I think NBA Twitter is better than any other Twitter that exists.  That's a. Internet is undefeated. Ever. Oh no. It's night one. It's already happening. Okay. That's yeah. Well done. Shoms did you what did you learn if anything about the nuggets last night that maybe you didn't know. I mean I think a lot of people have been going on this narrative. This kind of the Nikolay Okik doesn't care about basketball. He doesn't care about you know anything with the sport. He's not doing anything. I mean this is a guy you can't do what he's doing. Can't dominate the game the way he's dominating if you don't care for the game. And I saw one of his quotes after the game in the press conference. He said like this was a nice moment like he really chairs. He's like I didn't I didn't understand how many people we impact on a daily basis. How many jobs we impact playing the game of basketball and I think that just gives you an insight what he really cares about. Like he really cherishes this. Now on the other side like Christian Brown the way he played I mean only five points to rebound. You wouldn't think his impact was that was that big but he was everywhere on the floor. I just I love the way he plays the energy that he brings off the bench. It's crazy. It's crazy to like usually a ceremony like that before there's some sort of hangover right. There's some sort of let down some sort of OK let's ease away him. This team is just mature and they're poised and they didn't miss a beat last night. I would argue that him going back home and the horses and all that. I think that's healthy if you're if you're three sixty five twenty four seven of something. I mean you need a break right. Everyone needs a break and people were getting on him because God forbid he enjoyed his personal life when he wasn't on the court and I don't care. I don't care what he's saying and he doesn't care that dude clearly trained very very hard. I would love to see his work out. I would really would like to see what he does and I think that would be some weird stuff we've never seen before but he's in great shape he wasn't just no jumping involved no there wasn't even jumping last night no machinery I wanted to be all outside and natural. By the way we have heard from magic Johnson the first tweets of the NBA season have come in and he's just he's one of the best guys. Tonight the world champion Denver Nuggets are going to be tough to beat in the NBA playoffs. Well said well said I think we all can confirm. We're going to say he's unstoppable and nobody has an answer for Yolkich but you can't you can't play the entire season that way you have to have some sort of a strategy some sort of a plan Lou like what what do you do if you're the opposing coach what do you tell your guys as crazy as it is I think people still make Yolkich out to be underrated in a in a weird way he's still he's still underrated and you kind of take him for granted because he doesn't have all the athleticism that you would expect coaches pray pray the only time I've seen Nikola Yolkich like truly kind of phase was in the bubble which is ironic when the way Dwight Howard played Yolkich in the in the western conference finals like he was up in him he was he was he was you know he was he was touched and pulled and grabbed I'm not like I'm not like I'm not the unlimited car but but he was he was he was really getting in Nikola Yolkich like everywhere on the floor and you know the Lakers bigs Jackson Hayes Christian Wood Anthony Davis those guys are all athletic I think they're all built well but those guys aren't the physical presence that I think you know we'll see if someone you know I think Zubac can can mess with them a little bit down low but there's not that many bigs now in the league someone offensive minded like Anthony Davis you get him in foul trouble like make that a point early in the game which he did but he's somehow stopped going to that in the second half but get him early one, two fouls get Najee in the game and then you go on your runs but to to be able to play him heads up one on one and for that long it's just it's not going to happen there's no recipe for that there's no recipe for that I say yesterday he was unguardable yeah it's just hard to accept that like you have to come up with something somebody has to come up with something Jamal Murray 21 points on the evening ceiling wise for Jamal Murray Lou what do you think that is? I think the ceiling is high for him I thought he played well yesterday didn't force anything was efficient just let the game come to him and I think he can do that with playing next to Yolkich you know just coming off of screens playing off of the ball taking the opportunities that he can take point per game night guy this year so another all-star year and another deep playoff run yeah I agree that whole streak of no all-stars that's done he's an all-star he's all NBA this year this team's going to win so many games they're getting two all-stars and it's going to be those two guys I'm curious you played against Jamal in that series that you guys had you know I hate to bring it up you know in the bubble they'll say oh man don't say that but when you like what do you make of him obviously he had an absence with the ACL in between yeah I think he's just tired of being left out of a lot of conversations when it comes to the top guards in the league and I think that started in the bubble with him and I think Donovan Mitchell were going at it they were going toe-to-toe and I think from that point on he hasn't looked back since you know I think this year he solidifies himself as a top five top six point guard all-star caliber guy and he keeps saying we're talking about is he a top five point guard and I'm like look I'm like Garland Fox I'm trying to find people better than him for some reason but they're not he's a winner he can do everything he defends he can shoot the ball on an elite level so he's he's kind of going into that real stardom all NBA level and it's tough he's standing next to a two-time MVP so he kind of gets overlooked but he's there and then I feel like the team this kid was on the Lakers or next he would be a A-lister all day every day we talk about it speaking of LeBron 38 years young 21st season we know all this he did have 21 points he played 29 minutes I can't ask at this point yes we're all impressed I mean to say we're not is is silly what do you make of what LeBron is still capable of doing it's unbelievable it's just we talk about a year in year out and it continues and how much time he clearly spends in the off season how much money and effort just to continue to be in this shape you see him in transition there's no difference than LeBron second year and LeBron this year it is outrageous it's a difference maybe a little bit above the rim but the physicality getting out in transition bullying dudes like it is crazy that he's doing I can barely I'm on load management today being here this guy's still putting up the 20 piece like it's ridiculous it's nuts it's I don't know how he does it but I didn't catch those genes maybe you'll pass them on maybe I will to your children the 29 minutes Darvin Ham was asked about he said is this is this probably going to be the norm for LeBron and to his credit Darvin Ham was like yeah probably would you think of that I mean LeBron James is 38 years old he's in year 21 I think I think he said such an unrealistic bar for himself I mean he's been playing in the mid 30s over the last several seasons in minutes place so obviously this is a Lakers scene that's trying to play till June it's not about opening night and so I do think the Lakers clearly have set the tone that they're going to manage his minutes more this season and also another thing he's recovering from a torn tendon in his foot that he's rehabbed he's fully recovered but he spent all summer kind of rehabbing that and so early in the season you want to manage his minutes which is smart by the way if they have any chance in the post season later in the season they need LeBron healthy so don't blow your wad 30, 35 minutes when they're going to be in the playoffs and if they go in the playoffs full steam and he's full steam they're a tough team to beat but no reason to rush anything early it's still amazing to me that he's in year 21 he's 38 years old and we have such a high expectation level for this guy I think early on in that game he was picking his spots didn't play a lot in the preseason I thought he was trying to get his legs under but then after that he started picking up steam getting out in transition not blowing past guys but just debowing getting straight to the rim laying a ball up screaming asking for fouls I think that's incredible I hadn't seen anything like it do you start a LeBron game now that we are as far into his career as we are thinking will this be the game that I see something that makes me think okay this is it I think we've seen games where he's looked human and he's like alright and then second half he changes the narrative every time so at this point we should just enjoy the ride wait till the wheels fall off that's fair what a nice optimistic way to look at it who got the calculator out last night and figured out how much LeBron's outfit was worth because that is that's something $28,000 outfit which I mean it's probably more than that I didn't see the watch the watch itself is going to be something but there it is nice bag nice what do we think the bag is expensive for sure I was about to say a lot of that is the bag it's a fit or brick guys I get it too it's a watch I mean it's a brick really? yes I actually kind of like it but you're giving some praise to Ron today am I shocked? yeah you must be but he's going to say it's a $28,000 outfit so he doesn't care what I think well it photographs differently than it does on the walk doesn't it I'm actually shocked it's only $28,000 I'm telling you we're not taking into account jewelry and whatnot no definitely yeah because that's not but the bag is not shoms I think you could wear that top yeah you can this is a little aggressive at least on cameras the bag looked empty it did look empty that was just a piece the bag was empty Luke can tell when a bag is empty the bag was empty then we also have the rings we're judging everything right now all the aesthetics that were going on last night the rings that the Denver Nuggets received before the game did we like the shout out Jason Beverly Hills yeah this guy he does them every year right yeah I mean how do you not like a championship deal for it yeah you got layers yeah it slides out it's like a transformer it's like a safe yeah yeah that's cool that's where your drugs kids that's where you put that what is that that's a stick ring she said it that's a stick ring why else do you have a weird pocket that's a stick ring how heavy are those things I wouldn't know we wouldn't know what that maybe you held one I don't know they're heavy they're heavy not practical that's not as close as I've ever been to one thanks for bringing that up well happy Wednesday yeah there was another game stayed on the west coast for this one little sons little warriors action last night and look we're going to read into everything because the season started that's what we do but the sons beat the warriors 108 104 Booker 32 6 and 8 Durant 1810 Curry Curry had his 27 but PS4 for 14 from 3 but things on the offensive side looked pretty pretty good is there a player that surprised you the most I don't know if surprised I were but you subnercate I think seeing the impact that he had 14 points 14 rebounds 5 of 8 from the field this is not a guy that's going to be demanding the ball down low he's literally just playing really out of the high post he's playing a lot of pick and roll he's doing whatever's ass him in the offense setting hard screens for Kevin Durant for Devin Booker and soon here either Thursday or Wednesday and that's why the suns went out and prioritized him gotten us here little they really added depth to this team they knew that was an issue last year after they made the trade for Kevin Durant when you trade Mikhail Bridges Cam Johnson you deplete your bench you deplete your lineup and I think they were able to kind of go after a lot of those guys will punish their bench and they believe at the end of the day you subnercate was a better fit and we saw Nurkic I think shine last night I mean that's let's stick with that is he that much of a better fit than Deondre Aten was I do I think so I mean Deondre Aten is more talented he's going to have bigger games but for this team and that roster and that big three you want Nurkic making the extra pass you don't want him back to the basket demanding the ball you don't want the issues that we heard about with Deondre Aten the locker room and the selfishness those are all gone Nurkic knows how to and you know he's been there before but he was so critical Shams hit him and a Kogi last night they were everywhere and those guys are going to get looks those guys are going to have valuable minutes because all the attention is going to go on that big three and you watch the way their offense was set up last night too this is a wet dream for Devin Booker he's never had this much space because if he's you know if he's driving to the nail KD's guy is not helping Brad Beale's guy is not sinking so like he's he's just in the gym yeah and I think the mind sets are different between Nurkic and Deondre Aten you know one is a former number one pick if I'm not mistaken he's coming into that fold thinking he and Devin Booker are one and two punch right so mentally I think that's how he carried himself with Nurkic coming in he understands that he's just going to he's going to eat off the land he's going to take that advantage of the opportunities that's given to him playing off of those guys and I think we saw that last night he wants to do he's thankful to be there he's happy to be there but he should be because he's in a great situation but that's a great point because as a number one pick you have expectations you're people in your ear oh you can do more you can do more now we'll see how much more you can do but Nurkic is a great fit so far so the post game workouts I don't get it maybe somebody can make it make sense to me but is it makes sense I think that's a good amount of teams do it but in the hallway like this well yeah if you're the away team they're probably not even allowing you in the weight room so this is this is all the warriors basically provided for them so you have to get a certain amount of workouts a week right so why not do it now when you're and then you go to the plane a lot of teams are starting to go to this style where we're just going to set up in the hallway opposed to trying to share a weight room with you especially when we're rather do it in our own space out in the hallway let the music play I mean the video of a world class athlete in the hallway just it's kind of amazing everything is everything is documented now but this is the norm this is interesting that the media is able to record that's what I thought I feel like we're just intruding right now but again now like you don't want a to be doesn't have to stay an hour after practice tomorrow to work out he just gets it done do you want to say anything about him he wasn't going to be in a three-point contest and literally Asia roasted which by the way he wasn't in a three-point contest so you were right about that he's a good player though what eight points I never said he was a bad player Sean solid play I know I know we never said he wasn't a bad player what do you think of the elite shooters in the NBA does you know what a Tobi's name come to your mind here we go come on stop people are trending for all the wrong reasons that way you're terrible but no he's not terrible you are right right Devin Booker you know we're doing this we're doing it all season long I'm going to ask you top ten in the league yes okay but then what are the other nine all right well the five we said yesterday throw it plus Jason Tatum plus Jason Tatum who's we missed yesterday yes we did throw in remember who he said yesterday but that's not the point the point is this dude has developed it doesn't he made me think last night they don't need a point guard really okay this guy can play make this guy can handle the ball the plays he made down the stretch and pick and roll finding the open man and kudos to Eric Gordon and Nikogi last night who stepped up and hit big shots but Devin Booker is not just a scorer he's not just to go get a bucket he has evolved into this absolute star he can handle pick and roll he can go off the block he posted up he's got a huge advantage of his size but it doesn't matter who their first option his second option last night it was Devin Booker he was the closer Thursday night could be someone different so that's fluid that's fluid it's going to be whoever's hot that night and last night was his night KD struggled a little bit he's not going to do that multiple games in a row next game it's probably going to be Kevin Durant it's going to go back the book it's going to be Bradley Bill it's a great problem to have a shot down the stretch didn't shoot it particularly well but I thought in the fourth quarter he was the one to punch that they needed to close that game out Dreymon no Dreymon last night as far as his absence goes are you working right now I love when Sean's is working I think someone's getting traded who got traded James Harden reported back to the 76ers facility today so ten days he was away trying to start kicking in today and James Harden is back but he's been out for the last ten days he hasn't been a part of any team activities he has only done one five on five this entire last month of training camp has not played in pre-season so I don't expect to see James Harden on the floor anytime soon but he has returned to the team they play their opener tomorrow do it for sale Philly JH let's go live breaking news can we talk about the live break this is another day just another day it's better than CNN that's all I know no Dreymon I want to know how does it impact this team and are they are they too small I mean for sure they need Dreymon Green I think they even said he was interviewed during the game and he even said I'm our team's anchor defensively because of my voice and the way I'm able to communicate with the players and I think the Warriors are believing that he is close to return this is the four to six week ankle injury that he dealt with and will be within this week but for sure I mean Dreymon Green is the engine of this team's defense and for them to be good and to be a contending team this year they have to lock in defensively and he is the heartbeat on that end we know he can play make and facilitate and get guys in their offense but his value comes on the other end the way he talks the way he calls out screens that's what he does so I think for them to kind of be that team during the post season they have to lock in a lot of stuff Curry they are going to put up points they are going to shoot a lot of threes but defensively these guys got to lock in and then the growth of Moody and Kaminga and these guys who showed flashes last night that they are ready to take the next step as well you know we are going to have all eyes on Chris Paul Lou that's kind of where we are 14, 6 and 9 a couple key turnovers that he forced in the final minutes I thought he looked fine I thought he played well for them got those guys going in transition I thought he made the right passes made the right decisions in the open court and then in the half court I thought he got good looks where everybody just being solid and being himself does he start should he start do you keep it this way no Draymond got to come back that gives the second group somebody that's going to make sure they get quality shots down the court every time down yeah the way he is in pick and roll you're almost enabling him by having him in that first unit let him play with that second unit let him carry coming moody get those guys Gary Payton those guys need a captain to kind of run that offense and he is that guy and last night he showed flashes but yeah I think he's better off on that second unit and can have a huge impact on this team why does it matter if you start I mean isn't the finish the whole thing like why is that such a big deal to some dudes is it just ego I wouldn't know I mean a lot of it's a lot of it's ego right like your boys you're asked in training camp are you starting is like the first question how many points you have and are you starting that's like that's just and you're also Chris Paul you know that's fair too legacy after the game Charles Barkley said the warriors are the fourth best team in California Lou do you agree that's a little this cap that's cap big old cap that's what we say in Atlanta but listen this early and Drake would Drey mind coming back I think that gives them the unit that they're gonna need we do this every year with them they'll be in the hunt at the end so no I don't agree yeah I think they're literally second I think the Lakers are the best and I can't trust the Clippers yet they could be the second best team maybe even the first best team but what about the Kings they showed some stuff Kings are up and coming the Kings had a great year I don't know why I wind about it by the way what about the Kings I'm not no horse in that race it's Steph Curry like he's that's that's what it is we're taking a quick break here when we come back a full slate in the league Spurs are playing tonight for the first time you're welcome America when running back returns and it's day two of the NBA season so we got a full slate tonight Celtics nicks I want to see Christos Prozingis back at the garden I mean this is where he started his career this is where he was supposed to be the next New York nicks superstar but now he's kind of third fourth fiddle on any given night and I want to see Drew Holiday for the first time in that Celtics uniform yeah same I think Drew Holiday just he's going to mesh so well with that team especially defensively everyone's talking about the dame and the Brad Biel I feel like that's more going to help take off the pressure on that defensive end for Tatum and Brown so they can really go and be who they are combined for 60 every night how are we going to gauge that like who has the more valuable turn is it going to be Christos and Drew or dame with Milwaukee how are we going to figure that out I think everyone measures that by winning the more they win the better they're going to look and the better impact they have that's the name of the game he's smart and that kind of tough DNA he's going to provide but again when you look at the bucks you look at dame Lillard how he can space the floor and give Yanis even more of a lane to attack and do it he does that's also high value we've got Jason Tatum top five already depending on the day and as far as keeping him there I want to ask you Lou what if you could name it what's missing that's it he's good to go no there's got to be something he can I wish I could expand on it I think he's good to go is there something intangible that he maybe I don't know a leadership thing I mean be better in the playoffs last year I feel like we'd be nitpicking to try to find something wrong he has no left he's got it all he's one of the more complete players in the league but that doesn't make me feel good everyone's got room for improvement perfect wow did you hear that Jason Tatum he is our MVP pick for yes he is oh I forgot you guys do both have a measure MVP okay my bad at least you stuck to it you stuck to it Jalen Brown the big question was the max extension will he won he did so long-term he's a Celtic was that the best move I think that was the right move to make that gives them the stability with that one two punch they don't even get used to somebody playing on a team for them to have this group together for X amount of years and you watch Denver and you see how those dividends have paid off of them it's important to keep those two guys together to have them there and you know you add drew and present us to that mix let's see if they get over the hump yeah I agree people talk about his contract and when now he's getting paid like a top 10 player he's got to be a top 10 player like infrastructure to be a championship team but yeah with that contract there definitely comes pressure and I'd love to see him take that next step I'd love to see him all NBA he's going to be an all-star but again that gets measured by winning the minute they win a championship then all of a sudden that contract is worth it a bargain even yeah like where are they duo wise on y'all's list of current duos in the league aren't there any duos anymore I think all the duos have turned into trio I'd love to see them take that next step before them I mean this is a ball time or now no now what yeah but who Tatum and Brown yeah like now oh I'm talking all the duos all the duos are trios now I guess you could go Katie and book now Luca how do you not do Yolk and Murray when they just won it all so I mean they're top five top five yeah well then there's Jordan and Pippin yeah there's a few and then everyone else like after that on the Nick side of things gonna be fun Major Superstar becomes available and of course we're already looking ahead to that on day two of the season do you think Shams the Knicks will be front and center going after that person I mean let's look at the idea of the New York Knicks they have RJ Barrett they have Immanuel Quickly they have Julius Randall Mitchell Robinson that's just players they have eight first round draft picks that they can trade they have four of their own four from other teams that they've acquired in trade so you have all those players I mean them there's a handful of teams around the league that literally have a boatload of draft picks the Knicks are one of them so yes I mean when that Superstar that they want to go all in on we know they were engaged in talks with Donovan Mitchell and with the Utah Jazz they did not get him there really one first round pick away but they didn't want to pull the trigger they kept you know what they had in the guard but you know whenever there's a big name player available they will be right there no question yeah those those picks to me are more valuable than the players on that current roster and now you look to a team that would be rebuilding and reshaping its roster when you can get all those picks so I look at like a Philly I look at Joellen B where if they're going to start from scratch and Daryl Maury is the king of gathering all these assets that would make sense to me because if I'm New York I would trade everybody on that roster Brunson is the only untouchable but he comes with Josh Hart and Josh Hart they're a duo they're a package they're a top five too they have to be together they're a top five do you agree Lou? like everyone but Brunson yeah I agree yeah I agree if you can land a major player in his league get rid of everybody and then who's left to well then by the way you're New York and you're the Knicks and once you get that star you're going to have you're going to have people to come you're going to have guys take less money to come it's a great city it's going to help to get that marquee name it's shocking to me that it's not like it's New York I mean that's that's why they're always going to be you know they're always going to get the meeting always got an opportunity it's the greatest place anyways another game happening tonight battling Texas Mavericks little spurs the Mabs have some questions what's the biggest one they need to answer Luca Donchich Kyrie Irving defensively one of the best duos in the league last year at least analytics and stats showed it but to me their defensive cohesiveness how they play together defensively it's going to be an impact on the rest of the team and we didn't see that that duo and that team I think gel the way everyone expected to I think they were one of the home court advantage competing teams when they got got Kyrie Irving they ended up missing the playing tournament but listen you have to give Nico Harrison in that front office credit they did and I think it's going to be a great team I think this is a team that now believes with new chemistry having a different slate of guys in the locker room that this team will be better and we haven't talked about this team at all at all we haven't talked about them at all so I feel like you know if done right they could be a dark horse in the West they can really upset some teams and really put themselves in a position and they don't have the expectation level of crazy to think that they're underrated team in the West and they have the talent obviously with those two and then you look at the depth at the garbages they have Josh Green, Jaden Hardy those kids I think are going to take a really big step forward they both can score Josh Green defends Tim Hardaway Jr is going to come and provide shooting off the bench with Seth Kyrie so they have depth I love the kid Lively who's going to be perfect Luca and pick and roll is that lob I agree with Lou I think that they have a chance I think they need to defend they need to figure out which line up works best with Kyrie and Luca I think it's going to be Josh Green is going to be the guy that's going to defend the best player like he's going to be there a Kogi but yeah they have the talent they have the depth what happens if this doesn't work like if you mean I don't think it matters really yeah I mean everybody can't win everybody can't win I don't think it matters yeah and they just they're very small sample size of this last year and everyone kind of erupted that didn't work but it takes time there's two to ball dominant players that are such good scores like them they can't just it takes time it takes feel you got to know where someone likes the ball their spots they got to get in the flow of the offense they have to make sure they're getting everyone else involved so I think it'll be a slow grind for this team god sham god here's some these are normal I mean everyone's calling them wimby arms this is the normal but this is normal right although now with wimby in the league this is more about finishing than wimby I promise you it was just funny because he was screaming wimby or something yeah well they do look like wimby arms this looks like a summer workout where you're trying obviously you know it just kind of emulates a long contest from a guy very very but yeah this is the norm it's basically doesn't it sort of it looks different now that we've seen wimby do wimby things it looks different that's like a person they're planning for yeah it's like a personal costume you're like and speaking of they will be playing this first tonight and I know it's all Victor Wiminyama talk I mean even last night they weren't even playing yet there was like a three minute segment all about Victor Wiminyama but Devon Bissell during the offseason he also got paid X Factor could he be but they do have some pieces they have talent they're going to defend you know they're going to be in that system where they're going to every single night they're going to play harder than the other team so that's one thing you can count on it's just the talent they don't have the depth they don't have but yeah it's going to be fun they're getting this is probably the worst team to get the most national TV games ever dare you what do they got like 13 or 15 14 I think it's ridiculous but again that's the I'm excited I'm definitely excited I think watching him tonight in that environment I mean the Spurs have a chance of Victor Wiminyama is that guy I think they have a chance to really compete for a playing spot yeah what what wait wait go beat I said playing spot playing he said playing no nothing no not even the play in not even the play in well the play in I don't think they're playing for it but I think he's so good they're Portland's worse Houston's worse them that's well we don't know we don't know what New Orleans is going to look like New Orleans you'd like Memphis could be weird we don't know yeah they're not making the play I mean let's make a friendly wager right now it's I think it's I think it's Memphis San Antonio and we're doing it we're doing it yeah Loser got sons warriors I don't think they want to make I like the pelicans well they may not but I I don't think that they're going to bring this kid in and then all this I think they're going to make a try for it it can be listen it can be both he can be on men's restriction and try to still make the playoffs with they grew are we expecting monster minute restrictions because they said so far no we're not necessarily going to do that I think so because I think I'm not going to go on the postseason and sure if they get off to a magical start and somehow this happens boost them up but this is a long play with this kid that their whole organization their future is based around that do right there so why why rush it when you don't really have a championship team this year I want to ask you to this specifically because I'm hearing players both former and active talk about this he doesn't speak in hyperbole he's excited to watch him play is this when's the last time you saw this he's a unicorn I've never seen some of the things that he's done on the basketball court so every time I watch him it's a new experience for me something that I've never seen before so I'm excited to see the growth of his game and see what happens you know what is when someone's different like Zion's athleticism was different I'm super hyped that we've never really seen at that clip so yeah it's a unicorn so it's fun it's exciting I'm going to watch a lot of Spurs games this year because of him this makes me happy mix two of you guys I'm going to tune in I'm going to tune in I'm going to damn it Lou season hasn't even started guess what panic button already being hit that's next run it back how dare you Lou panic button time we're changing the topics look season's not started for a lot of people right but the off season doesn't leave some of us with a good feeling about what should be happening so we're going to start with people who need to hit the panic button already and we're looking at you Miami Heat this is an obvious one they were supposed to do so much during the off season they did absolutely nothing it was it was looking to be great they didn't get dame they didn't get deal should heat fans be hitting the panic button I'm yes but you know not fully but yes because everyone else it seems like the Celtics the Bucks they took this huge step right and the Miami Heat have this glorious year last year they go on this run everyone is talking about Jimmy Butler and playoff and then for whatever reason they lose Gabe Vinson they lose Max Truce and they don't make any drastic changes to a team that didn't win it all last year so yeah I'm panicking a little bit just because it seems like there's now a huge gap between them and the top of the east but then the reason I'm not is because they are the heat and they are that culture and they do play the right way and they're going to be there like they're still going to get I still don't want to play them in the postseason they're the poster child for that yeah like I don't want to play them first round I'm not panicking Miami always crashes the party they always crash the party they always find a way in and look speaking of duos Jimmy and Bam should be enough for them to compete at a high level you know those are all star caliber guys they get paid like it they play like it and like I said they always put themselves in a position to get alright we got another one I'm going to panic on this one so Memphis Grizzlies you don't have John Moran for 25 games for sure panic we're all done 25 games without one of your better players and no Stephen Adams yeah that's tough but yet the Spurs aren't going to make the play in I'm going to play devil's advocate here I'm going to you're putting Memphis above the Spurs regardless absolutely yes I think if John Moran was suspended but here's the thing 25 games it's not like it's not a week it's not it's not too this is a huge chunk that could put them out of the postseason but with that being said John Moran is John Moran and he is going to be ready to go when it comes and I'm hopeful that he changed I'm hopeful that he grew up but on the court there's no questions about him he is a bonafide star and with 25 games I'm not good at math I'm sure when he was out last season I know they've lost a few pieces but they were able to kind of keep it afloat without him so they got to do it again and they I mean they lost Dylan Brooks they added some other pieces but yeah this team they still have Jaren Jackson they still have Desmond Bain who's one of the better shooters in the league so they still have the pieces to go out there and kind of tread water until he gets back to the bottom half of the playoffs and then someone's going to have to play them fully loaded with John Morant and that is going to be no good what's the latest on him as far as I mean we obviously haven't seen him in quite some time what kind of off season was he looking at yeah I mean I think Adam Silver even talked about it last night counseling working with the league trying to make sure he stays on track for a return after that 25 game suspension but that's why your Memphis you go out and you go get Marcus Smart John Morant and then the meet and then once John Morant's back you can play the two in the back court together I forgot Marcus Smart was there yeah definitely I was hoping you would always forget that and that the world would forget that Marcus Smart he is also the definition of a grit and grime Memphis grizzy like he is he's what Dylan Brooks wanted to be exactly you know what that's a perfect way to put it he's what Dylan Brooks wanted to be yeah so it is it's hell of an upgrade to do it it's fun all right so Sixers I mean we had the live breaking news earlier from Shoms that Harden is officially he's there he's present he's there but he's there but but this is a panic button Sitch I mean you're not gonna have James I mean it's he's going back to Philadelphia with the mindset of he's gonna restart his ramp up process now how long that ramp up is going to be you know only James Harden only the Sixers medical staff they know how long that ramp up will be in the past but I think when you're James Harden what he meant to that team I think he averaged 21 points 11 assists led the league in assists this is this guy's not in your lineup tomorrow which I don't expect him to be he's not expected to play tomorrow I personally don't expect him to play anytime soon this is a guy that's been has done one five on five in a month that doesn't sound like a guy that's ready to play now but I mean come on without him in the lineup he's just about basketball nope one time he hijacked it it's been no but it's been years like this it's been years whether it's something with Doc or something with Joelle or James been sent it's always something that has nothing to do with how they play yeah it's it's panic at the disco Michelle it is panic he's if he's ramping up right now it's ramping up for another team he's not playing there I think that the bridge is burnt like he's not going back there and it's going to be a huge on us on Joelle Tyrese Maxie these other guys to kind of carry that load while he's out because I can't see him playing another game Philly I love that ramping up on day two of your new job is really a it's a good look it's a really good look I'm doing I'm doing this is my ramp coming up it's officially now the time where we give picks because we are really good at it when run it back returns what was our streak last year run it back run it back run it back NBA season there's no better place to get in on the action than Fandle because right now Fandle's hooking up all customers with three months of NBA league pass when you place a $5 bet on the NBA it doesn't matter if you're new to Fandle or already have an account everyone can watch and bet the action live with number one sportsbook it's prop party time y'all Chandler you're gonna take it away for us first we have yeah I got the Celtics in the garden minus three and a half I feel like that's a really low spread I feel like the Celtics are really good next who knows I don't like that one but go on understood minus three and a half I think they're gonna win by four and I got the win be over again I think this is rather low I think this is Jordan pool over 24-5 love it I don't even know who they play I know he's going to get 25 I like that doesn't pay great unless you put some real money on the line for that and I like Detroit money line I'm against Miami tonight in Miami I like this I like this I also went with points because it felt low and maybe it's just a day one type stitch but Scoot Henderson over 13 and a half and Kawhi Leonard get to see him at least one day 23 and a half points the over on both I'm optimistic about these and today it's a week of birthdays here at run it back Monday, Wednesday, Friday so today is Chandler's birthday I got you a special cake cha cha cha and by the way yesterday was Michelle's and Fridays is Lou Wills it's technically one of my extra cakes happy birthday happy birthday happy birthday guys to the big three see you guys tomorrow Kawhi I'm old smell it how old are you 48 run it back run it up run it back run it back run it up


Just five games on the main slate for today in daily fantasy baseball and although there are some decent options We're definitely scraping along here trying to identify Stacks and pitchers who do stand out and have a combination of floor and ceiling and there are guys who definitely fit that but I Think it's a volatile slate and volatile slates can be daunting It can be a bit scary But they can also be a good thing because they they give more wiggle room to people who identify upside identify Players who could bust out who don't have high roster rates and I think we can do that for today via Being different without being dumb and that's always our goal as always So we're gonna dive in to this Thursday main slate identify What the the ideal options are but then also identify ways we can pivot from that and try to Put ourselves in a good spot to take advantage of what should be a pretty wonky slate welcome on into the solo shot That's right here on the fan dual podcast network and number fire calm My name is Jim sauna. So I am a senior writer and analyst for a number fire here to break down a five game main slate What locks up for 640 p.m. Eastern for today only weather note on the slate is that there is one game with cooler temperatures? That is out west in San Diego for the Brewers and the Padres I would downgrade hitters there a bit to account for the temperatures that are cooler there than they are elsewhere We'll dive into the pitching preview and get you set with some stacks in just one second But first a reminder to make sure you're subscribed to the number fire daily fantasy podcast feed the NBA Daily ISO may be done But the solo shot continues here every weekday USC for select events and PGA as well get all those by Subscribing to the number fire daily fantasy podcast feed and if you like what you hear leave us a five star rating As well in the solo shot does go up over on the fandal YouTube page each day Also, the NBA playoffs are here and you can turn crossovers into cash with fandal Just visit fandal right now and place a $5 bet and you'll get an instant 150 bucks and bonus bets win or lose There's no better place to bet all the playoff action than on America's number one sportsbook Just go to fandal.com and sign up and get a hundred and fifty dollars and bonus bets when you bet your first five bucks Fandal official sports betting partner of the NBA must be 21 plus and president select states Fandal is offering Online sports wagering in Kansas under an agreement with the Kansas Star Casino LLC Bonus issued is non with trouble bonus bets that expire seven days after a seat Restrictions apply see terms at sportsbook.fandal.com gambling problem call 1 800 gambler Or visit fandal.com slash rg in Massachusetts. Hope is here gambling helpline ma.org Or call<PHONE_NUMBER> for 24 seven support in New York 18778 hope and wire text open Y in Arizona call 1 800 next step or text next step to 5334 2 in Connecticut 1<PHONE_NUMBER> or visit ccp g.org slash chat in Indiana 1809 with it in Wyoming in Kansas 1805 to 247 hundred or in Kansas case gambling help calm Louisiana is one eight seven seven seven seven zero stop in Maryland MD gambling help org and in West Virginia Go to 1 800 gambler.net Pitching preview for this five-game main slate Nicoladolo is the highest salary pitcher on fandal coming in at $10,000 we got Jill Ryan coming in at 99 against Yankees Jordan Montgomery is a 94 Nick Martinez 81 and Bailey falter at 8,000 rounding out the top group for today Lidolo is facing the Phillies for the second straight start and I hate that because it means the opposing team is Familiar with his pitch mix. They've seen him recently. They've studied him recently. That's a downside for sure. I Still think we need Lidolo as our top pitcher of the night though It is very helpful that although the Phillies saw him they didn't see him Well, he shoved in that game 12 strikeouts seven innings just three hits allowed And part of the reason that Lidolo is able to get 12 strikeouts is because they let him go Basically as long as he wants in his first two games He has gone 107 and 110 pitches. He is a cyborg in the most beautiful way We've also seen the strikeouts there for a pretty long sample now for Lidolo We're up to 14 starts with fewer forcing basketballs right now And in that time a 31% strikeout rate a 3.17 skill interactive ERA and the matchup is good from a ceiling perspective as well because the Phillies have a 25% strikeout rate versus lefties on their current active roster since the start of last year That's why Lidolo was great in that matchup I have Lidolo projected for 8.5 strikeouts tonight, which is well clear of everybody else So yeah, it stinks that it's a repeat matchup, but I don't see any great alternatives here So I think we need Lidolo at the top of our list despite the fact it is a bummer This is a repeat matchup for what we saw last week The good thing is at least he was great there and hopefully he can be great once again tonight Number two for me is going to be Jordan Montgomery He is a slight edge over Jill Ryan mostly due to Ryan's situation here facing with the Yankees Ryan and the appeal of him in things to watch Montgomery's matchup not nearly as daunting He is at home against the Pirates and the Pirates I think maybe better than perception even with O'Neill crews being out now But they're not a team I truly fear by any means and it's not the Yankees a Yankee Stadium Plus Montgomery is a really good real world pitcher and he's been that ever since he joined the Cardinals We're up to a 13 start sample on Montgomery where They let him throw his forcing fastball gave him confidence in that pitch and in that time the 3.43 skill interactive ERA With a 24% strikeout rates his fly ball rate just 31% He pairs those really good peripherals with even better results his ERA is 2.97 The overall strikeout rate for Montgomery has been fine But I think it's helpful that he's had good single game upside with in that as well He had nine strikeouts against the Brewers last time out and another game with nine strikeouts And two others with eight in the same sample. So it's a five game slate pretty limited options That's more than enough for us to feel good about him for tonight Montgomery strikeout projection is 5.97 for me It's not nearly Lidolo's it's way behind that but it's still fine enough and above the others other than Lidolo and Joe Ryan So I'll put Montgomery seconds I feel firm putting Lidolo first and we'll talk about Joe Ryan as a potential contrarian option The way to be different without being dumb in things to watch as far as the value goes I want to be out on Chris Bassett. I was kind of hoping they'd stick him at 9,000 for tonight and I could just ignore him In any other setup I would be out here because his velocity is rough bad results so far, but he's facing the Tigers I'm going to give him a look here just due to the salary matchup in slate size the salary for bass It is $7,300 which is way down from as usual the matchup as we know is elite versus Detroit 77 WRC plus to them against righties with a 125 ISO and a 26 percent strikeout rate The Tigers check every box he wants for an imposing matchup perspective we've seen two starts with Bassett with his velocity being down and In those two starts nine and one third innings He has exactly the same number of walks strikeouts and home runs five five five across the board not ideal So again, if he were facing any other team, I'd be happy about that But those two matchups in Bassett's defense were on the road against the Cardinals and the Angels to very tough offenses Now he's at home. Maybe he gets some of that velocity back if he does he has upside So I am fine considering that as a possibility But the key caveat here is if Bassett tracks to be popular based on the matchup and the salary Bridge too far from me. I cannot handle a guy with really bad velocity really bad peripherals really bad results If he's gonna be the chalk, but if his popularity is more neutral like average, he's a fine value play I'm at least willing to consider. I think I'd prefer all three of Lidolo Ryan and Montgomery over Bassett, but Bassett is the best value play for tonight I'd like to avoid it. So hopefully he tracks to be popular I can just pivot and feel good about it But you know all else equal he is the best value play for tonight So Chris Bassett without value but huge preference for me for Lidolo followed by Montgomery and then by Joe Ryan Again, we'll talk about Ryan's appeal later on today first so let's dig into the stacks and go back to that Montgomery game facing off at the Pirates and I think that the Cardinals offense is a pretty easy call as the top stack for today They're facing Vince Velasquez and not only are the Cardinals one of the best offenses on this slate, but This may be the best matchup as well Velasquez has been trying to figure things out for years now and been plenty of iterations where he did make gains We've seen it, you know have some some good stretches But he hasn't found the magic sauce yet, especially not this year in two starts so far Velasquez has expected the array is six point two three He has more walks and strikeouts the bad of all numbers are better than they were last year but they're not good enough to overcome the rest of the profile and You know the bat the bat of all numbers despite being better are still nowhere near elite So this decision to me is easier than making Lidolo as a top pitcher making the Cardinals a top stack They have a great offense 118 WRC plus against righties They have a good matchup against a guy who is likely to let up fly balls and hard contact And I think that makes them the top team on the slate by a wide margin so going back to the Cardinals once again as a top stack for tonight and That's not going to be contrarian by any means people will be on the Cardinals But as always you're not going to see all nine batters than this lineup wind up being super super popular in terms of roster rates So one way to be different without being dumb is by dipping down in the order and using guys who bat six seven eight somewhere around there and on this specific team on the Cardinals You can do that without sacrificing upside because Nolan Gorman has huge power Tyler O'Neill better against lefties for sure But does deal some bases he has some power against righties Jordan Walker has looked comfortable so far in his transition from double A to the majors and he has stolen base upside as well So again our goal in DFS is to be different without being dumb I think you can do that within Cardinals stacks tonight despite the fact they as a team will be popular by pivoting down to Six seven eight looking at Gorman O'Neill Walker all those guys very fun options And I think that if you're trying to again differentiate yourself without Going suboptimal ways. I think that's the way I choose to do so for tonight Behind the Cardinals for sacking. I'm gonna put the blue jays second I would not blame you if you view them similar to similar to the Cardinals I think you could view that that way But the key difference for me is ground ball rates The Jays are facing Spencer Turnbull who was a big ground ball guy before he got Tommy John surgery He has made two starts and is coming back and The ground balls are still there. He has a 55 ground ball rate, which does hurt opposing upside for sure But everything else about Turnbull has been rough so far. He has a 6.7 percent swinging strike rate His expected era is 8.21 One game is against the rays very tough match up there Other was against the red sox and the blue jays actually do have a higher wrc plus against righties than boston does And now Turnbull is doing this on the road So I do not like stacking against ground ball pitchers. I think that that is rough in general for sure And Turnbull was showing Some flashes before he had his surgery of being a viable guy for daily fantasy I would love to see him get back to that because it's tough to see guys Go through Tommy John and and not get back to what they were doing before the injury But in this spot I think it's why it's a sack against him and I will do so with the jays I think they're a full tier behind the cardinals, but if you want to put them in the same tier I think that's totally defensible as well As discussed here plenty on the show primarily last year. I am a huge Dalton var show guy And I might be becoming more of one right now His hard hit rate this year is up to 44 percent It was 35 percent last year and that's pushed his expected Wooba up to 347 from 298 last year And that's just the hitting the speed is there too So we haven't seen var show go nuts so far this year But I think that going nuts is well within his range of outcomes and he doesn't need to go nuts To get upside via his speed. He can get some singles walks stuff like that. So I'm a big Dalton var show guy. I'm gonna keep on doing that right now Uh, I think that his salary is pretty forgiving down at 30 200 dollars So Dalton var show a focal point for me within these jay stacks as I try to target since they're turning bowl for tonight I do think the Padres are in play for stacks. I just don't know who they're facing yet So They might well be third, but I can't really talk about their match up because I don't know what it is The brewer's pushed all their starters back. So I'm not really sure what to do there I do think the Padres or the Brewers though are in play in the same game facing Nick Martinez Again caveat here is that it's cooler in San Diego that it is elsewhere on the slates We do downgrade bats despite that. I do still like Milwaukee Martinez It's his third start this year. The first two have been pretty rough with a lot of walks Not enough strikeouts. He's a pretty good bad at ball data But guys are connecting on some of his pitches. He's making mistakes The baseline is a high ground ball right, but he is making some mistakes Martinez has led up a 13.9 percent barrel rate up from 8.1 percent last year All that leads the walks lack of strikeouts hard contact leads to a 7.46 expected DRA from Martinez Those games were against the Rockies and the Braves One of those is very tough in the Braves other one not very tough in the Rockies that game was in San Diego The Brewers pretty good offense 109 WRC plus against Reides with a 178 iso They're not the worst offense, but also definitely not an easy spot by any means So I think they're fine. I wish that Martinez didn't get as many ground balls But they will work on a short slates the Brewers to me for now The number three stack depending on what the Brewers decided to do a pitcher because I could push the Padres above them Martinez last year did let up more fly balls to lefties and Reides the Brewers this year pretty lefty happy So that's a good thing here in this matchup We love the power from Rowdy Thales, but I kind of like Garrett Mitchell quite a bit Mitchell has some power got a bit of speed. He had 24 steals last year across AA AAA and the majors He's had a good start so far this year with plenty of hard contact still some strikeouts But that's going to be the case for Mitchell always And but Martinez doesn't get a whole lot of strikeouts Martin are Mitchell likely to bat six. He's $3,200 so not cheap but I want guys with multiple paths to upside and Mitchell definitively does does have that so the Brewers right now my number three team for stacking Let's dig into things to watch talk about some more ways to potentially be a bit different That could be via Jill Ryan. I think he's a fun contrarian option He's facing the Yankees here in pretty good hitting weather very tough matchup So that makes Ryan a massive riskier tonight But in the two starts with a new pitch the splitter in play for Joe Ryan He has a 35 strikeout rate So he has a good upside. He just doesn't have a good floor and I'm okay with that trade off personally Because I don't mind risk. I want the upside for DFS Ryan has that so If you want to get off the Liddell and repeat matchup or avoid Montgomery Who may not have the biggest strikeout upside? I think Ryan's a fun way to do so So Joe Ryan a good pivot for I think specifically single entry tournaments for tonight I have no idea who the Brewers are starting as mentioned. They pushed Eric Lauer back a day It's one spot. You'll have to check back on later.  Go check out nlb.com Check out the scores page. See who the Brewers are starting. The potteries could be a great stack I just don't really know who they're facing yet. So check back on that one later Finally, the Reds are facing Bailey falter who's had a good start to this year But we'll let up fly balls. We'll let apart contact that makes the Reds an option There just aren't a ton of guys you want to Use against a lefty here. So they work, but they're not super super desirable Spencer steer could be okay as a one-off if you want to fill third base $3,000 has some ceiling Platoon advantage here as well. So I think you could go that way if you wanted to or if there are other Reds you like against lefties Let's finish up with the dinger calls for today a boring one and a fun one For the boring one. I got to go back to Dalton varsho again I like the bad at ball data early on this year. I think that that's adding up Well face and turn ball who may let up more fly balls to lefties and righties So varsho in a good spot take advantage will go Dalton varsho for the boring one for the fun one Let's go back to the Cardinals. Let's go Nolan Gorman. Obviously he has massive power so it's not a You know off the wall kind of recommendation for our fun one, but I like it a lot homers and consecutive games already has four So far this year 33 $1 on fan duel good dinger upside. So we'll go with him I know it's not the most fun pick, but I think he's got a good shot to go to you for today So the home run calls for today are Dalton varsho and Nolan Gorman That's all we got for today here on the solo shot again interesting slate Try to think about ways to be different without being dumb whether it be Using different guys than the cardinal stacks. Maybe using Joe Ryan Think about those things as you're formulating Hey, and try to get them in a good spot to be different without being dumb We are back once again tomorrow to break down Friday's main slate So make sure you are subscribed to the number fire daily fantasy podcast feed Wherever you get your podcast search for us there hit subscribe And if you like what you hear leave us a five star rating again Check out the solo shot over on youtube Do you want to watch a video version of it as well? If you have any questions for me? I am on twitter at jimsonus j i m s a n n e s You can also follow the fan dual podcast network at fan dual podcast I want to thank you all for tuning in for today. Good luck to you with your mlb Dfs lineups. We'll talk to you once again tomorrow to break down a packed Friday slate This has been the solo shot right here on the fan dual podcast network