Welcome back to the next cast. I'm your host Matt and I'm Tyler. Alright, so you're gonna have to forgive me I didn't went really high-pitched in my voice right before that we started recording and now there's like something in my throat like I It's really bad. I think I damaged my vocal cords. It's okay. Um, this isn't a chashulee in the in the chat Come on, man. You were Oh You're hilarious. Anyways, yes, you're right. This is not emacs stream. This is not emacs podcast if you're looking for that You'll have to look elsewhere Because Vim is the tool of gods Facts just gonna put that out there. All right. Anyways, so this is the Linux cast we talk about Linux-y things usually and That's what we're gonna do today. We're gonna talk about Linux-y things now Tyler You my friend have had an adventure. So before you get into your adventure Let's talk about the operating system. You're using so yes last week on the podcast. We had a discussion where I showed my absolute, I Had no faith in you my friend. I'm so sorry.   You're still having a good time on Gen 2 Yeah, no, it's actually really nice. I Mean other than compiling takes time other than that. Yeah, everything's good. I Actually have had a better gaming experience here on chin tooth and a half on March, which is very weird I'm shocked that you're still there and so for those of you who don't know we have a couple bets going so We just agreed to a new one every week that he's on Gen 2. I have to remove Linear amount of money from my Gen 2 goal on patreon So next week will be 20 then the next week after that be 30 and so on so forth and tell the point where actually, you know Have been still Gen 2 We also have something kind of corollary to that where if he's still on in two months, which will take us to April, right? I Have been still Gen 2 then in two months I can't speed that up by going to his patreon page And now I know Matt would never show for himself. So I'll do it here for him Please go check out the link in the description at least load up his patreon page Keep it open in your web browser and just consider it. Okay. He's a great guy He could use the support anyway and it goes to a great cause to it's causing him immense amounts of stress There are also perks by the way you get like two or three videos a week early, you know before everybody else Matt's someone who actually properly rewards his patrons, you know I also do blog posts and polls and I'm supposed to do AMAs Like patreon chats, but I don't do those I should do those Because there's like I got a couple like high tier guys that really deserve that But I just have not done it So today and Devon both of you guys who've been around for ages Especially Devon Devon was my first patron by the way.  Thanks everybody who's the patron and you don't have to support me if you want to see me I'm sure Tyler's going to be here two months just using gen two. I'm sure that's gonna happen. Sure sure Yeah, but I mean we all know there are people out there who would much much enjoy the process of seeing you squirm as In the dollar amount increases and you get closer and closer and close There was there was before Christmas before the Christmas law came on everybody kind of chilled out on their their contributions Which I mean happens every year But before that it was like up to a hundred and seventy dollars like oh my god, we're gonna get there Now I'm not so worried. It's okay. Now now it takes all all it takes is just one guy getting a super fat paycheck And being like, you know what that really has been stressed out and working hard He deserves a little bit more stress in his life All right, so let's talk to me about your LFS experience Yes so Ben Who's a fantastic guy? Offered to he's the one who helped me? install gen two as well as Scott and I mean I had I definitely had more people give in but in hell, but He's the main one who stuck with me for the entire gen to install And he also convinced me to try installing LFS because it would be a great learning experience and it was However, after installing it for 36 hours still having the kernel panic is not fun Now granted it was definitely something I was doing I was doing it a little complicated I didn't want to install it on a whole separate drive So I was doing some complicated shit there with grove and everything but it still should have worked and it didn't But I did learn a lot over it I would never recommend doing anything like I probably won't do it again. You won't do it again Okay, so that's why I was gonna ask would you ever try again? And before before I make comments on that ram just ram in the comments Maybe Matt can solve his green flash and gen two answer that question is no that doesn't fix it because Tyler has the same problem He actually has to have two webcams in order to actually get this to work Like just to prove to you guys there's there's the Brio right there It does it does not work on Gen 2. It doesn't well and in discord on Gen 2 is the problem, right? Yeah, yeah, yeah It's this is this is not a Brio problem because I had the same problem like this happens with other webcams too, but this is a discord problem Discord sucks this court it we were going to try something different this week remember, but we forgot it doesn't matter We're going. Oh, that's right. We'll try again next week if we remember Maybe next week. I won't be dealing with this whole. Hey, I just hop distros things. So Talk about let's let me talk about this. Okay so Back when we did I decided I was gonna switch to men jar. I decided I was going to take a tour through the other big arch based distros and I spent a whole month with men jar and it was an okay experience. I made a video about you guys should You know should check that out It was a good experience. I got gaming to work where I was not working on Arco. It was fine Not really my cup of tea. I like things. I like the way Arch itself does updates more than men jar does even though There's apparently a way to enable like a non-stable version of men jar world will give you the updates right away I didn't even know that but anyway, so my next one was endeavor now My experience with the operating system itself has not been bad It things are working fine that I installed the Qtile version the install was really fucking slow, but Whatever I once I got installed everything seems to be working fine the you know, the mirrors are fine and everything My biggest problem has been is that yesterday?     It's only been two days. I Don't get it like I don't get it. I mean, it's fine. It's it works fine I haven't any problems, but It's not anything special Yeah, it's all too similar to almost every other arch-based. It's an arch-based There's not much here that makes it stand out to me and and there has to be something other than it makes sense that say Oh my god, this is the best thing ever Stop poo-pooing on our website, which by the way, you still have to click three times.   Now, there's a download menu Like in there in their menu bar you click on that you think well You want that they'll take me the download page, right? No, no, of course It's another it takes you to another page Which then you have to click on another link in order to actually get to those release notes And you do you think that the download link would be right at the top of that third page, right?  They have a list of the mirrors on the front page All at the bottom, but they don't have links. They're just text So you can't click on the damn things in order to download It's infuriating and I made this comment or I made I made this video about it and the comments on that video were like How dare you say this about endeavor West?  Yes Like that should be what you expect of a new user Especially if you're making arch-based distro like you're kind of trying to tailor to new to arch people.  Thank the Lord They just have one, but it's hidden so it it's a Not a good experience and the thing is like every time I say something I get comments and like Comments that are like I'm worried that they're going to threaten the lives of my family because I've said something bad about their precious OS And I said I've been using it for two days. It's fine, but I still haven't come across it is anything special. It's just fine. Okay So that I mean the funny aspect is people will most likely continue to do that because I don't We are just such a weird community. The latest community is the only community where the per bait Like it's a it's a very pervasive mindset of like look if it's difficult That's not necessarily a bad thing like if in most other platforms like Mac Windows you don't try and make things harder, which it like that's their whole community is like the people who use those Platforms will argue that they should make it easier to use on Linux. We are No, like I mean if you're lazy like Linux people do not like that. No, no, no do not be lazy So Arco is my distro The thing is like Arco is my thing and I'm biased towards Arco and everybody knows that I'm very very honest about the fact that I love Arco and It's just you know, it's a thing that's out there But I'll also be perfectly honest Arco's website. It's God-awful like it is so bad So and I was honest about that in the video too So I like I didn't just pick on endeavor like I could this is a thing that exists like the art even the arch Linux Arch Linux website Not all that you user-friendly just distro watch Which is probably like the website that most people associate with everything Linux looks like it was developed in the 1980s like It's not it's also not user-friendly. So Yeah, so I Had an experience yesterday and got pissed off at people in the comments Luckily, I did not engage very often like I a couple times I couldn't help myself had to do a couple times, but for the most part I stayed out of it You endeavor guys. I love you guys.  It's okay.  Yeah Ram Ram just Ram you can Go to the highest Patreon level and then when you click the the that tier you can type in a custom amount if you want to But I don't I mean Just as long as you know that that it charges you once you hit submit, okay There are no refunds. We also we also have to make this very clear You don't refund it and you become a legend. Okay Legend here you do get your name on the the end screen for a whole year whether you support for a whole year or not at those levels so If that's something that's important to you But it would be a constant reminder for an entire year that this person here wanted me to suffer And I and I say like should should you actually do that Matt has to give you like a little personal video.  He's gonna do a little personal video. Like thank you for this experience. It's been great promising things I Have said that I will live stream the install so if that ever happens We're in just room make it happen make it happen captain.  Yeah, yeah I don't think we were talking. Yeah, I don't think we ever talked about us. We did talk about our sex tape Which is again, it's very weird that we're talking about this in the actual recorded podcast much less the live stream But it was a great beginning If you would like if you would like to catch similar conversations because I guarantee you that's not the weirdest thing We've ever talked about it in the free show. We record this live usually every Thursday around three o'clock now We're recording a day late this week. If that happens. I usually announced that on the community page So make sure you subscribe in order to catch that as well.  I dropped the mic. It's there. It's up for everyone to see. It's Beautiful, I mean it is absolutely luxurious it has Taken entirely too long But it is there and actually you want to I will go through and Show this Before you show it. We should just go ahead and tell them it's it's soy deved out. It's got so much JavaScript on it It's the best it's sick. It has zero JavaScript Tyler. Take this. There's literally hundreds of megabytes of It's awesome No, there's when they see the website, they'll be so confused Wait, where's all the job? I'm going to show this now if I can Which I apparently can't where's the main main no camera. I can't I don't actually have that scene because of course I don't Again actually show you so there's no proof What happens if you add a scene while you're streaming I'm just Well, it'll show up as black until you start adding stuff to it and they can see you build the scene from scratch Which is not a problem main Okay, I'm actually do this thing That's a screen capture Me and do Okay, this is this is this really really good Of course, you can't actually nobody can actually hear me right now because there's no audio But that's just there. I just want to show you this. All right. I'm going back. All right, so it did appear. Sorry Nobody in the livestream could actually hear that Because the new scene doesn't have the audio inputs on it. So there's there was no audio input there at all Oh It did appear they do see the website like it did appear on screen for like two seconds But I didn't want everybody to think that was though the stream is broken. So Go to links cast or it's there. There's a website And on there you'll see links to all of our latest episodes right now links to the contact information I will have an actual contacts contact page next week Now that websites up it's really easy to do that kind of stuff I I've surpassed the hurdle of the hard part Anyways, I should actually just because I'm very proud of this Org in the in the in the chat All right, anyways Okay, it would I would have loved it actually seen your face, but I sent you the link in So did you hear that light back in the noise That's very all right, this is a horrible podcast we should start over Anyways contact information if you want to get in contact with us you can do so at the Linux cast on twitter You can subscribe to all of our stuff at the Linux cast at org those links are there along with The actual episodes if you want to see them You can also email us at email at the next cast at org patreon is patreon.com slash linux cast You can support zany by going to his youtube channel youtube.com slash zany og He's also an odyssey link in the video description discord and telegram links are also there in the video description You can I almost made it all the way through a fuck You can subscribe to the uh, the linux cast on youtube at youtube.com slash linux cast Whoo I think that was good. There was some redeeming qualities there. So every week tyler and I get together And we scour the internet Usually by going to omg ubuntu or nine to five mac or nine to five linux. Um Usually that's what that's how hard we have to work. It's usually we whatever the top new story on those is That's what we choose. But I'm just saying this is really hard work.  I'm just Just Neither am I right now Just give me a little bit though. Anyways, we have news Tyler, what is your news this week? I don't have the browser. So by the way, so tyler tell us what your news is Don't worry. I'll explain it great valve boys. They've released proton 7.0 Which is a big improvement um like big So the initial support for eac with a couple games is Um there And completely working then there's uh, they've added support for like local decoding of h264 videos Uh, we've got a new wine at the xvk versions. It's based off of it's improved game performance in Many games and made Many more actually playable such as forza horizon 5 Which I know many people care about that one As well as monster hunter rise Which is pretty cool. And so there's there's uh, a lot more games that it actually does like it has added support Beyond uh the article that I've linked, but um, yeah, it's it's it's a big improvement And hopefully to god valve can just keep dropping new gets like this until we get our uh, our uh steam decks That'd be great Yeah, I'm The more I hear about the steam deck more people actually have it in their hands The more excited I am about it actually Now I'm not as excited about it as uh garner brian is But I don't think that's possible. He uh has made many many videos about the steam deck He's pretty stoked. Yeah. Um, but yeah, I'm getting really excited about I'm really excited to have that actually in my hands Unfortunately, I'm assuming that's gonna be like late this year Because I did not join right away So that's sad for me, but I am but but on the plus side by the time I do get it. This should be way more games True way more games. So Moving on to my news item of the week. So Let's talk about facebook. Shall we I mean we have to we have to um Facebook and mazilla are two favorite companies in the world Are working together to come up with something that they're calling privacy respecting attribution And basically what this means it would give advertisers excuse me It will give advertisers the ability to check insights while making the advertising privacy friendly So this is an attempt Somehow if you've been understood any of those words I Excuse me It's that when I went really high earlier. It really it really messed with my throat. Uh anyways, um Whatever those words mean they're trying to go through and try to make it so the advertising It's somehow more private And That there's not a lot of details here, but it says how would it work Uh, it would use a multi-party computation to prevent a single entity browser Advertisers or websites to learn about the user behavior, whatever that means Uh, instead of individual results linking to track profile users To attract profile users IPA, which is what they're calling it is a Uh, aggregated system that does not link back anything to the individual users now Correct me if I'm wrong But doesn't this not sound exactly like what google tried a few months ago with the Federated cohort of whatever the thing was Yeah, it sounds exactly like that to me. Oh, yeah, that's precisely the same sort of goal I think they're doing something different, but Yeah, also I'm just going to put this out there the abbreviation IPA just makes me thirsty it doesn't It it doesn't make me think of privacy respecting ads it makes me think of beer, you know And also like I don't know I'm like Mozilla and Facebook are two companies that have both of them like yeah, we're not opposed to censoring shit Like we're not completely opposed to it So I don't know these are not companies and I'm like Yeah, you go fight for privacy Like I don't I don't really really see that but who knows Maybe attempt by Facebook to like repair their image Impossible it would be a death.   We have to Because you can't talk about facebook Metta without actually talking about the metaverse And can I just say that I don't want to be a part of the internet where the metaverse actually exists because this Here's the best example Look up a picture of facebook's metaverse And honest to god if you want to spend more than eight hours of your day in that environment You are clinically insane There are padded rooms that look very similar to that environment that they would be happy to stick you in Like like like it was designed by someone who was actually living in a padded room Exactly I've seen the I've seen the video and it has like a like an avatar version of mark zuckerberg looking around on a on like a Like a video game But not a very like a It's a low poly like a high like a super low poly and it's like right above minecraft in terms of actual like visuals Like you always expect me to get out like a like a cardboard store and start beating on trees, you know It is So bad like and there's a there's a news story yesterday where the like whatever they're trying has like 300 000 users like There are 300 000 people out there who signed up for this nonsense Dude, there's like there's like more like there's probably more than eight million people out there dawg There's got to be at least 300 million of them that are stupid Like got to be makes me so sad for those people. I know how do they walk and talk at the same time to me the The best the funniest example of the metaverse was buying virtual real estate for for your metaverse because to me like I understand like maybe you buy some virtual real estate in some metaverse because you really like playing in it You buy for like 20 bucks I totally understand that because that's like buying dlc for a game that you really really like I totally understand that when you're talking spending the same amount of money that you had spent on a car Or an actual piece of land on virtual land You're insane like you're Absolutely fundamentally insane because it's not an investment.  It's It's the same thing as csgo skins, man Like sure you might own them, but you don't consider them like investments Mooda Mooda har a couple of months ago talked about earth 2 or whatever. It's that It's like a game developed in unity. It's not that's not actual game But people actually like buy like actual property Well, it's property represented inside the game that correlates to real property on earth, right? And uh, they're doing it like as an investment Like it's all through of course bitcoin and or bitcoin cryptocurrency and NFTs and all this nonsense And that's gonna be the whole thing like that's the whole web 3 promises metaverse and cryptocurrency like, you know We've said a lot about cryptocurrency last week But the one thing that we can both agree on with cryptocurrency is at least the idea there is good You know like even if it has been bow guarded by scammers and you know horrible evil people For the most part um The idea behind a decentralized currency is good. There is no redeeming quality of the metaverse like no And same with NFTs because like I don't think a lot of people understand like NFTs Like the only reason that people will tell you that that they're valuable Is because of the whole idea of the metaverse, which is stupid like What if I like let's say this debit card that I have here. This is my debit card Let's say I have this card and I and I so I tell you that this is a piece of dlc But then I take the dlc And then I tie it to some arbitrary Like amount of money that I spent at some point. I take the receipt I tie it to this dlc and also make it to where the dlc can be used in other places Other than just the game it was made for Is it now Any more of an investment than the dlc was at the beginning Because the money that was used to give it the receipt value for being an nft You don't own You never bought so it's not tied to this thing that money's not the people can use it. It doesn't matter Like so there's no inherent value gain And the only other thing is that you can take it and use it in other games So what like Who cares The problem isn't people spending money on nfts to do things like that like buying a gun skin be able to use in two different shooters That's an okay thing like as long as you know, that's what you're doing is you're spending money It's basically the same thing is buying Coins in a game on your phone or whatever Whatever as long as you know that it's just buying something and throwing you that money away It's basically just for and it's for entertainment purposes, right? It's to make the game fun As long as you're doing it for that purpose only it's fine.  We're going to the moon That's when it's a severe problem, you know, like I hate it at that point It's just it does not make sense, right? So we don't need to get into current cryptocurrency, but The metaverse, um I think the metaverse It just proves that mark zuckberg is a clear and present danger to sanity everywhere Like the man has obviously decided he's going to try to take over the world But he decided that actually taking over the real world is too hard Um, so he decided to create his own world where he could then be the benevolent dictator And you know because you got to buy the hardware to do to actually get there You have to then you know wear the hardware you had to enter his world You know, he creates you have to use his platform his currency You know, you have to go through and uh, he you know, he builds all the stuff inside the world Yeah, he can ban you at any point like if you say something wrong on facebook just Instantly gone not just ban you but put you in like time out like can you imagine? Can you imagine like he says you can still use it but in order to use it you have to be in a certain place which is like, uh Like a really horrible place to look again, like it's like lime green or And everybody's all you hear in your in your earphones is vomiting sounds for the entire time you're in the in the room Like or like, I mean here's another thing like Like do we really want to live in a world where 10 years from now?  Honestly want to live in this world. It's just I don't I don't I don't think I don't understand.  Maybe it's that's just it Maybe I'm just too old for and I don't understand. Maybe it's all for young people But I've talked to I mean you're a young people I mean you're at least 10 years younger than I am and you don't understand it either I know I know I know the people older than me don't understand it. So who is this actually for? Well, it's for the very like wealthy people like again if you can like For one NFTs if you if you research them, they are a fantastic way of avoiding taxes Like an incredible method of avoiding taxes completely And then there's also the whole problem of most of the very wealthy people who are talking about the metaverse And crypto not necessarily cryptocurrency, but NFTs and this whole space and virtual real estate most of them are heavily invested in it and Like if you know anything about crypto like Logan Paul is a good example of this So is even Elon Musk like Elon Musk buys a shitload of dogecoin. He knows that All crypto and all all of these different markets virtual like all of this stuff It's all speculative markets like it's all speculation anyway So if a very famous person comes out and says I've invested in this and I think it's funny. We should all do it Ha ha Everyone else is going to spread it around. It's going to get popular And even if a small minority of people start buying dogecoin, which if you know plenty of People a lot of people bought dogecoin even knowing it was stupid because Elon Musk said it they bought it And all then all he has to do is just take the money He spent dump it and he's made a shitload of money and the market will instantly start to crash back down Because he was the only major investor Yeah Yeah, so it's all pump and dump scams always and then we decided to take it into a I'm an imaginary imaginary world Exactly. Yeah What is wrong with us and And whatever it doesn't matter. Okay, moving on to the main topic, which is source-based distros will they ever become popular? Tyler This is your topic. So take us off Since i'm actually using gen 2. I I did kind of want to talk about this I as someone who's having a really good time with gen 2 and really liking Like I really like portage. I really do enjoy the system I still What would say pretty vehemently? I don't think source-based distros will ever become popular gen 2 and Pretty much every single source-based distro even the ones based off of gen 2 that try to make it easier for new users it's Not necessarily easy. It takes a lot more Um I don't know not necessarily dedication But it takes a lot more know-how to get to the point where you can manage your system All of the dependencies use flags how you want to build what support you want packages built with um, I mean most people aren't even fully Don't fully understand packages and the way programs work and what are dependencies I don't think these types of source-based distros will ever take off I can be super popular But I do think that there's a place for a really really solid you like new Use new to source-based distros like linux distro to come out Um, because I've tried some and they're not great Um, so I would be very I think there's definitely a conversation we had over a good source-based distro that aims To be new user friendly Okay, so I'm gonna say never and In no way Like there's no way ever a source-based or to become mainstream like and when I talk about mainstream I'm not like talking like overtake windows mainstream But become become a distribution that everybody considers to be like mainstream in the linux space And the reason why I say that is because the vast majority of people who use computers and use linux even are doing So on the laptop and Using a source-based distro on a desktop Like you're using on a very powerful computer That has you know many cores and many threads and a high-speed graphics card Doing that on a think pad that is 10 years old Is impossible It's not impossible, but it does take so much longer three weeks to compile the kernel. Okay. I'm just It would take you a long time and then the fact that you have to do that for every program every time You have to update is just not feasible for the vast majority of people also It You're you're absolutely right and that people don't know about it and they don't know the complexities in how to do it Um, like a lot of the stuff that you give me a ur has to be compiled Like that's what day you are helpers do right? So a lot of that stuff is stuff that you are actually building from source Even though it still feels like you're just using a packet manager, right? And every time I come across something that doesn't have a binary in the actual just stock standard a ur it Confuses me because like why isn't there binary but also it Goes through and like this thing takes forever.  I know this and everybody's going to correct me Like I know that but I don't use the chaotic chaotic a ur I just don't so People are going to go across that situation where they don't know What a package build even is they're not going to know Why it just doesn't install in a matter of a matter of a few seconds You know, I think I think the really good points you made there is laptops are super popular Like most people are using laptops And that's good Now brandon's comment is kind of uh highlighting it the problem like yeah So he said it's not three weeks on the kernel on a thing fat. It's only 48 hours, which Only further like fruze matt's Like that thing over there doesn't really it doesn't really cost a million dollars. It only costs a hundred thousand dollars Like still out of the reach of most people, okay Most people won't accept their computer being down for 48 hours Yeah, I mean, okay, that's why it's an enthusiast thing because the When you you do an enthusiast thing It's okay that it takes an investment in time because people who are enthusiast expect it to You don't you don't go into gen 2 thinking that you're going to be able to do it in a half an hour I mean, yeah, I'm assuming that there probably is someone out there who could do it in a half an hour If they have like a really super fast computer or whatever and they've done it many many times before and they don't have to consult anything And it's you know, you know, they have super fast internet Maybe that's possible But for the best majority of people, I mean even in this less successful time Tyler How how long did it take you to get from Downloading the ISO to actually having a workable System desktop everything. Yeah, everything. That was an eight hours eight hours. Yeah Most people aren't going to take eight hours to install a distra. It's just no And and I would go so far as To say the best majority people Are never going to go that It's just never ever ever going to happen and even if they found it away Because like You gotta remember I've only installed gen 2 that one time and it was a failure But there are binaries of certain things right that you can download I Install right so the guys there's binaries of firefox. There's binaries of the kernel Even then But Not even then but If if you just use the binaries that are provided then What would be the point of using gen 2 right the point of using gen 2 is then to control your your Use flags and be able to compile the kernel without bluetooth support if you want it to you know, that's the that's the entire point so And I mean I I'd agree there too. I mean if I was primarily using just binaries here on gen 2 I probably don't know that I'd stay because I don't know that I'd see any point in it. Well, you're I mean you're an enthusiast So you find the fact that you can compile things cool Like cool. Look at me. I'm a nerd. I know how to do this and you don't nana nana booboo you know, I mean You know and and that's a perfectly fine way of Looking at it. I mean One of the reasons why we are nerds Is simply because we know how to do cool things that other people don't know how to do And we can then lord that over them when we happen to encounter them on the internet I mean, that's true. That's entirely the point of doing this stuff There's a reason why The state the the phrase exists. I use arts by the way, right? That's the The reason why that exists is because every time you talk to somebody and if you happen to use arts You have to point that out. It's legally required that you do so because it's a point of pride for those people like it's become It's become cliche now, but when it first started like The reason why people said I use arts by the way is because like oh you use arts.  I'm missing it So I don't know Like you mentioned the the distros that are based on dentu like Calculate and What it's like What's one of the other ones? Calculate is the one that I know that's really popular. I tried that one I did not have any luck with it Um, there's another one that I try if I can't remember its name It's not sabion. No, because I don't think sabion's based on dentu I don't know Scott said record, but I haven't heard of that one. Oh, well, there's also uh, what fun too. Is that is that Is that another oh, yeah fun too. That's it. Yes. I did try fun, too um But even those like they make the installation easier They I don't know that they make it faster. I've never tried any of them So they they make it faster and if they if they do make it faster if they do Remove the whole let's compile everything under the sun thing. Again. I question the reason why you use them right I don't know I would agree So I guess the the the question the answer is no Like it's always going to be an enthusiast thing but Most things that are hard in the Linux space are enthusiast things like Even arch is still I mean arch is only popular amongst a lot of people because of the the meme of using it No Right you You don't necessarily install arch because it's like the best distro or whatever you install it because At least that first time you install arch because it's it's a badge that you get to put on your Your vest or whatever, right? You're like, I finally done it. I got I did it It's great. And that's the reason like I've installed arch probably six times in the last four years the vanilla arch And it's fine but Frankly, I like arch based distros better because I'm lazy person and I enjoy having all that stuff done for me It's just it's easier, right You just take care of it for you Yeah Okay, so that is a very it was a very short main topic, but That's the way it works sometimes. I think we more than made up for it in the beginning And this and we did talk about the metaverse for quite a while. So we did we have we are actually at 50 minutes already So, uh, there was that point right there around the contact information where I lost all the words So the it sounded really bad. I'm sure I'm sure we lost about half of the people that were normally listening to this at that point um But if you're still listening and you're still watching congratulations, you've made it through Uh, the Linux cache to the point where we get to the thingy of the week Now this seems to be the name that I've adopted for this is the thingy of the week So tyler You're thingy of the week I've gotten back into using ranger boys. It's so nice. I don't know why ever left like Oh ranger is such a good file manager. It's so good. I I'll never understand the people that argue about it being python, but Whoever like it doesn't matter people are gonna be crazy There are those people out there who if it's written in python They just won't like it's the same people who don't like electron You know what I mean? Yeah, but at least with the electron thing like you can actually point to that An application that's written in electrons to hey that kind of sucks. Hello discord. I'm looking at you You know, yeah, yeah that thing's written in electron. It's horrible Like we can all say that but python doesn't have the same problem Like yes python is slower than other languages, but most of that is in compile time Like and you're not compiling stuff if you've you're used for the most part.  It's just I mean it is but you have to go through and compile you have to go through and add in It's like the suckless version of what hold on a second. Why didn't the suckless guys actually make a suckless file manager? Hold on they might I don't know. I haven't checked I might make one like that was a weird like Trail into that thought right?  No, it's it's perfect I will I love it's been a joy getting back in and using rain. Yeah, it's so good. I see It's so good that I will I Occasionally enter it out when I don't need to use crusader the crusader is my baby. It's so good But I still use ranger For four or five times a day still just because it's you know, I can set wall papers there easily Usually that's what I use it for but there are other things Okay, so my thinking of the week is a game which I know what you're thinking matt a game Like matt never never happens never does games like first of all I played zero ad with you guys last sunday for like two hours Maybe even longer than that. It was good.  I came in second place both times You know because of skill Like no, it's because you never attacked me until the end Exactly But for a beginner you're civil you're sieve by the time we attacked was not I mean dude I'm telling you man. I'm seeing somewhere like they just they don't they don't have anything like we got like 10 guys You did pretty well. Well, I haven't played anymore This week, but I Have plans too. I was too busy doing a website by the way by the way linuxcast.org There's a website there. I just I'm gonna I'm gonna keep doing that for a while because that was an accomplishment I should be very proud Before we move on too much further. I do just want to go ahead This is sadly a little bit of self-promotion But I'm gonna do it anyway just because we might be able to peer pressure matt here We're going to be streaming zero ad later on And play so you might want to peer pressure send matt a few comments messages hit him up on the discord You know just slightly annoy him just a little bit for your freshman playing games with us Maybe maybe this weekend Maybe during the weekend I will I will I will deign you peasants with my with my uh with my presence and Kick your ass in zero ad All he needs is dinner and that he's ready to go the best part about that And I like I I know I'm I haven't got to my thingy of the week yet But the best part about the time we were playing is dt made a second account and came and tried to troll us all And like come on man. It's so not it's not on We we so knew it was him.  Like we're all like, okay.  He'll just take your people down and then just leave and you're like, uh, hello You know I'm weaker now. You could attack. Yeah. Anyway, it's there. So my thing of the week is Spyro Now Spyro is a like a dragon game.  Now. I'm not going to call it open world because it's definitely not an open world Each level is highly contained but It's very well designed and it was It's very fun Like you go through and you collect gems and stuff like that and you find the dragons and you attack Some of the monsters and stuff. It's it's very fun Uh, I will say two things about it. First of all the camera controls are terrible in this game Like they're really really bad. Like you control the distance between the camera and your character Based on your where your mouse is on your mouse pad Like it's really weird.  It's annoying The other thing I will say is that it does not love this computer at all Every time I run it like it runs fine. Like the the the graphics are really good. I'm getting like 45 50 frames per second, which is fine Um, but the the fans in my computer sound like they're gonna blow up Like it's not it's not great. It's gonna play it all that much But it it was actually really fun and it it's uh, usually comes with the whole trilogy for pretty cheap Hmm does the patreon link on the links cast website work Uh Let me see Yeah, it worked for me Yes, it worked for me. Yeah, so it should work. It did just take a brief second to load, but no Yeah, it worked. All right. Anyway, so that is it for uh this week coming up next week. I actually Don't know what we're going to do next week next week. We should do Oh, let's see should let's talk about rust next week should everything be in rust So we're gonna get really nerdy next week That it should be really fun We'll talk a little bit about python. I'm sure uh because those are kind of like the competing meme languages it seems so That is it for this week before I go. I should take a moment to thank my current patrons If I can actually do this because dwm hates me Um, anyways, uh, sit a dev on patrick l marcus maklin jackson f tool steve A separate island is garrick michael archter and karm day jeremy shon odin martin e merrick camp drashley j dog peter a Crucible dark vented six laddie and primus uh for whatever reason every time I do this on the podcast I can see those names straight through without any problems every time I record a video It takes me 12 times to actually do because I usually stutter on jackson f and tool And then I have to start all over again Well before we end the recording, I do just want to go ahead and say thank you matt I will be very excited to play zero ad with you here in a bit Scott said he's excited to this weekend boys this weekend.  Okay sounds good. And then sunday sunday night the practice you get this afternoon will be great I I'm not gonna let up because I'm just hoping I'm just hoping you'll just pop in and play with us. I will hang up on you I don't do well with peer pressure. Okay, because I just don't it's all right All right, so that is it for us this week. Yeah, tyler's apparently gonna force me to play zero ad this weekend. Um Um So, uh, we will be back next week if you want to watch this live, uh, I promise you That usually I'm much more put together than this, uh, which Blightingly untrue, but usually I've tried to be anyways You can so you can watch us live every thursday at 3 p.m. Eastern time 2 p.m. Central 1 p.m. Colorado time Uh for those of you there and if you want other times on digits get through that out yourself. So anyways, we'll see you next week


ing in reality of a vanishing point where part of something would be obstructed due to the vanishing point all right let's move on uh and i i'm not picking on you there nathan these last two for were for mctoon so oh yeah that's my mic's last word yeah yeah no worries uh let's carry on labelle says why would the knowledge of the earth is flat be kept from the global population what would this accomplish detailed answer please and thanks yeah you got it that's a fantastic question because it does get into the why of a lie and everything so one it's i i believe hide the bible the bible claims the specific use of the number six six six is the mark of the beast six six six is in the amount of curvature per mile six point six six six feet of curve for every one mile we orbit the sun six six thousand six hundred miles an hour there are things with nasa having devil horns jack parson's who studied under the lester prowley who called himself the wickedest man in the world six six six bathroom it uh so there's a lot of ties jack parson's died more than a decade before nasa he was part of jpl jeff repulsion laboratory he's fired from there and still for his account beliefs and you do have you do have a warner about brawn who has on his tombstone 1911 songs the firmament declares the glory of god uh or the heavens declare the glory of god from michel's handiwork it is to it is to hide god it is to make people feel not special it particularly helps for the military where you can dehumanize your your opposition the people serving in the military mean well a lot of them but on the other side too mean well but they're they're they're human beings but if you can get them to be like an animal or you're painting a target you're you're subhuman it can try to be easier for people to to harm others but people still have trauma from it because it's traumatic for others to a human being uh so it's to hide god it's to discredit the bible because if the earth was a globe the bible would be falsified and so that would it's all i mean controlling everything too but the the fed and all that can print money so um oh i said last 10 i'll give you a last 15 and we'll uh carry on so yeah it's all you're very special you're very loved and uh it's to hide the creator to hide special creation so why does why are there so many 666 is in flat earth there is 66.6 degrees from the north pole to the tropic of cancer on flat earth and on flat earth the sun moves 1666 miles per hour as it circles the north pole coincidence i think not why does wits it gets it in base 34 have 666 in it and in base 35 why does flat earth wits it have 666 in it in base 35 huh why does bryan's logic flat earth or have 666 in it uh it doesn't uh i mean i think if you're appealing to like the 36 decimal place or something you could yeah it's the same it's the same as you did same as you did 666 is our hunting for 666 available if you like a 666 is just like you can hunt for 666 i mean they're in barcodes and stuff and the the mo the washington monument it's nothing to do with the globe all right just one second we got all kinds of questions i don't mean to cut you out oh yeah there's like that's a good question though there's like 20 more questions and you guys are just gonna trigger me to like sing iron maiden if you keep saying 666 because it's one of my favorite albums i'm sorry like no matter what you think of me the number of the beast is a great album it's referenced a lot why if the bit if the bible's false why is it's nero's number all over it's it's nero's number because bruce dickinson is such a great singer anyways uh yeah we won't get into that shane sam pierre is saying uh our idea is better i'd like rob halford more um but let's let's carry on do train tracks appear to converge in the distance do parallel lines ever this is the same i think we got down it's a great it's a great question from shane thank you shane for for asking that no it's a different carol lines do not and and and he brought it up i mean yeah the sun could never set great point shane thank you for that uh yeah as shane went on to say can you then conclude that euclidean geometry perfectly describes visual space yeah so we do see an angular we see 360 degree field of view and as as to the sun sunset not being able to set on a flat surface i i showed me screen shots of of of uh that was to me oh my bad sorry i'm jumping here i'm in twitchy i get my time uh we we do see uh yeah in euclidean space but humans perception of distance is not good all right go ahead Nathan to the topic though don't stray okay yeah so i would yeah i we see in angular um and we do have devices that are capable of like linear measurements and then we just you know look at the graduation marks on on a linear degree device or something like that and try to get our measurements uh so i mean we see in in in circular view but we can do things to determine linear um measurements and things like that so thanks shane all right everybody's everybody's triggering my idea my deo isms okay all right there you go is uh yeah we do stargazer kill the king tarot woman a whole bunch of them i love deo as i just i can't get enough of that that's that's my jam 80s metal is just so good um but it's a natural thing when you get into guitar you're gonna eventually love yes i see you look metallica over there hey go ahead can i real quick uh there was um a former coworker of mine she wanted to go to a concert but her like past boyfriend was going to be there so she fell uncomfortable so i told her i go to a metal concert i don't listen to metal music or anything but uh when i was there i was jumping around everything um she had a good time too which is a great thing but i remember i was sitting there trying to fake drum and i was drumming slower than the actual drummer who was drumming to rhythm was actually drumming and he also had a shirt on that said like will work for sandwiches or something like that but he was real drumming faster than i could fake drum and it's it's some of it like the instruments it's very high octane music and everything like wow yeah i was gonna say uh yeah yeah if uh what am i thinking of here uh maybe a different show is about about music yeah it's different i love metal but it's a different show powerful music oh yeah no i've enjoyed lots of judas priest and i've seen them live they're come on right focus focus right no back back to i'm sorry for it don't let me have fun mc i gotta moderate the moderator come on no no no we can we can discuss how much we love metal for two seconds my goodness i'm not a fan some of it's good awesome yeah all right all right what's it gets it all right is this what you wanted mc is this what you wanted really what's it gets it is here and he says to the glober would a required correction for an seatropic signal propagation for gps refute relatively relativity thus heliocentrism you asked for this mc tune i was trying to probably not probably not and i like how witsit is is too scared to type my name all right let's carry on shane st pierre if room Wang generalize the sagnac effect in 2004 then why did the michelson morley and ferometer fail to measure earth's orbital velocity uh the sagnac effect and uh what michaelson morley we're measuring are distinctly different types of uh measurements michaelson morley was a linear measurement and the sagnac effect which is uh what michaelson gale and ruyan wang is uh has an enclosed it's in a circle and the uh the the light paths go opposite directions so they're they're different instruments measuring different things sagnac effect measures rotation and the hope of michaelson morley was that it would it would have an effect on that because of the earth moving through the ether but that they didn't find that so yeah they with the michaelson morley they tried sending light at different times of the year different directions of the earth relative to what they thought was the orbit of the the earth and they got a friend shift of i think about one sixth of what they were expecting roughly around there uh to the 30 kilometers per second that light is a very sensitive measurement device very precise with those fine wavelengths and everything and they would have been able to calculate or to get a difference based on that the travel once you release the light from the source the objects keep moving and light is the only it constants in relativity it's it's the absolute frame that those are based off of but it did not measure the supposed orbit of the sun thus relativity saying it's all okay it did it did not measure the effects of ether on the on the light i would not that's what that's what the experiment was was doing was measuring the effects of of uh the movement of the earth around the sun in the hypothesized ether the movement of the earth around the sun was not the hypothesis that had been previously confirmed the very first sentence of their paper references one of the earlier uh confirmations of the movement of the earth around the sun all right let's carry on everybody i think it was from my say yeah and yes let's go that's something to that though yeah i love metal airy's failure airy's success ask me about all your metal questions in the uh in the live chat that's lovely let's carry on it's fun uh so uh let's see it ruang this is the same so similar question similar thing really ru Yong Wang measured linear motion using inferromity in ferromity in 2004 why didn't michaelson morally detect the motion through einsteins linear geodes geodes i can't say these words geodesic geodesic thank you fellas you are fantastic go for it uh so again they're they're different experiments but ru Yong Wang had a loop there's a loop in the the instrument that he had where light gets split and it goes opposite directions and inside the loop there is an area it's not a zero area so but ru Yong was testing if if moving the the actual fibers had had an effect on it and he did get a confirmation of that and it's completely in line with relativity um um i can science that i think did a great analysis of it applied all of them after it it's really good go ahead and have a look um maybe somebody can if you do check out i can science that he did talk about the ru Yong Wang experiment because space audits was covering it and actually um i can science that did make a video that i saw was the last one of that series of covering that where he did say that actually what what space audits uh allen and them were finding was that it actually would be able to falsify um that the constant speed of light claim and show a favored direction for light he actually did agree with with what space audits and what what they were claiming and uh reporting on all right i believe i can science that if i'm wrong you can correct me but i believe that's what i had heard from all right seems like we've wrapped up all of our thoughts there uh medicinal mass media says demonstrate says nah uh demon stride demon stride well thank you uh i think out of your demons i've been out of here sorry for that uh i don't think we have to get behind jesus demons give me house jesus i don't want to think there are bad bad people out there or anything i want to think people you know care for each other i i don't think i met anyone i was just parroting you a lot of reference to demons and stuff in today's world yeah no it's fine uh which it gets it uh to yeah we already read that one sorry what's it um medicinal mass media says maybe with a bunch of dots not sure what you meant with that uh shane st pierre says to the globalist globe globe urist that is a weird way of spelling that to the globe globular list the globularist was a strange word do you think compressing an image literally depicts actual earth curvature do you think what actually uh exhibits uh do you think compressing an image oh yeah so so if you have a a photograph of something that's that's got very slight curve then sometimes people will do a horizontal compression of it so you can see it of course you can measure it you can count pixels you can draw straight lines across it if you want but to make it a nice visual aid people will sometimes compress it horizontally to really squish it and then if if uh you do that what happens is straight lines remain straight and curved lines are easier to see as curved so yeah it's a great way to identify curvature so if you're taking an image of something that you're going to compress and you're using a lens that has barrel distortion and it parts curvature onto what you're taking a separate topic you need you need to control you need to control for your barrel your uh lens distortion as well correct okay all right let us carry on into the next question toky walker says why did morris alas find the pendulum processions periodically match that of the sun and the moon rather than the rotation of the earth uh that one's that one's for me he he did yeah he did not that that was an experiment that was not confirmed so a very important part of science is that it's uh repeatable observable repeatable demonstratable those things so in in the higher quality repetitions of it they did not find the same effect as alias did in his earlier ones and it did not uh the whatever he was implying in there wasn't actually what they found they found a very slight uh his he claimed to have found a very slight variation in the procession of the pendulum during the eclipse and a very slight change in the period of the of the pendulum also so i i i don't know if it was slight from what i had seen and i actually think nasa or harbert had also tried to uh has had some successful and unsuccessful results of an alias effect during eclipse even underground but i think um alias what he had had reported was that during an eclipse like an average pendulum if if it's right set right and everything it'll go 15 degrees per hour but i think he had reported that it was up to like 13 degrees faster per 15 minutes or like 52 degrees an hour swing which is actually quite large of a rapid change and i think it can even go backwards and stuff during an eclipse which would which would show it's not independently the rotation of the earth which is a constant during an eclipse it should remain constant during an eclipse it actually shows that there is a sky influence on on matter because if it had been confirmed but it wasn't well i think it's been i think nasa has seen it sometimes and not other times and same with harvard as well and that's from from documentile project i tried to look him from here all right let's carry on and ask more of these super chats and you know if you have any other questions in the super chats you can keep them coming in um but uh we do have to wrap this up uh at some point i'm sure uh i'm going to set those two minute timers but you guys are just uh you know you're rocking it so i can't i can't help it but just let you guys expound uh toby walker says and follow up why does apollo 17 lift off from the moon like a high school video project isai just shared the folder with you enjoy the metal go ahead like uh i don't think it does when you look at high quality uh video of it it's it it looks looks fine i think it looks like yeah if you think it's fake then then go ahead and show the forensic analysis of it i'm i'm just really happy that they were able to send men to the moon in one shot first time and get everybody landing there it wasn't the first time what number was it it was 11 they orbited the moon in eight they didn't have to touch down at some point they they went they went partially down and 10 it wasn't the first shot it was the 11th but they but they won that the first time they landed on the moon and then had the lamb get them off of the surface the first time they landed on the moon they they landed on the moon the first time yeah that was the first time the 11th it was the 11th time uh that they had done in that particular series they had gemini and mercury missions before that so it wasn't the first time they didn't say here's our first rocket to launch go to the moon it wasn't it they had a whole bunch of prior ones for many years i'm just happy they made the 29 24 249 000 mile journey there and back made it safely that's good i want you know safe travel last word for emcee if you have any thoughts okay cool all right that that makes it even easier which it gets it is coming in again uh just to ruffle your feathers remember when you admitted to jaren that compressed images actually are not valid evidence of orith's curvature but you present them anyway i don't remember saying that at all i i think that uh compressed images are a great way as long as you've controlled for other things to determine whether or not something is curved it's it's good for seeing it but better to measure it and you can count pixels to do that i i have a a pixel counting thing i did with tommy runwald's picture against a straight edge a straight edge against the horizon and these these pixels you're counting this is discernible curvature to tell the difference between what would be our field of view curvature and an actual physical horizon it's it's a photograph it's a photograph of a of a known straight edge so we are controlling for the lens it's a high quality lens not a gopro so we have the the actual actual physical known straight edge in the foreground right next to the horizon in the background and then i counted the pixels between the edge of the straight edge and the edge of the the horizon and yeah so i did i had controls for confounding variables and and the horizon is 180 degrees across it's not at a slant or anything it's 180 straight it wasn't 180 degrees it's not that kind of lens it was a narrower field of view than 180 all right let's carry on fellas uh lj why hasn't space tech improved since 1970 it has that's quick i think they got to the moon then and can't know i think they're they're working on small achievable goal uh steps to take to give us back into space exploration to the moon and then to places beyond once we get to those steps and i think dear moon and these companies that have been saying in 2023 we're gonna go it's the 2024 now they're gonna say in 2024 we can go and then it'll be 2025 2030 virgin black doing it it has nothing to do with the question though and then the nathan is the question was why has uh tech not improved and it has so but there's claims of space travel and everything we can't do it currently which would be a record from going in the past but it has it has improved that's that's that's the answer the answer is it has approved improved he he claimed in his question he implied that it has not approved but it has so it was an incorrect question i i do agree if if rockets are considered space technology even though it happens within the earth if you can land the booster of a rocket straight up that's all happening on the earth but that would be improved booster technology cool it's worth so yeah all right can go 44 coming in pitch lumen your video showing a bottom up to obstruction is that what boats going over the horizon looks like to you or sunsets i'm not sure what your cadence was supposed to be there in your video showing bottom up to obstruction is that what boats going over the horizon looks like to you or sunsets there i think i got all the emphasis on the right syllables yeah so that that would be like how how the that experiment or that demonstration shows bottom up disappearance of those objects that is a bottom up disappearance that you could also apply if it's if it's a horizon it's it's like the sun we see it set or rise bottom up top down over rise um but we see that so it would be the same conditions that would affect the the bottom up disappearance of a boat of a building of a sun it's it's the optical effects of our atmosphere plane that cause causes us to see bottom up disappearance which is is striking considering a typical thoughts of a flat earth and especially if you don't include atmospheric conditions or anything you would not if we didn't have an atmosphere i i do not think that the sun would appear to set we might even see it all the way across but i think there's tenuation of light and everything due to the magnification the dispersing of light and and things like that the medium changes bending light down so it can't reach you if it's far away because it has to bend down it's bent down and it falls short before it actually reaches your eye sorry Batman that's not how bending downward light works it makes things appear higher last word to you Nathan uh Ben yeah um the the light would yeah not we wouldn't reach the observer because it's being cut off by the atmospheric conditions before it can can reach your eye because we have an atmosphere we can't see the sun at all times i do believe if we didn't have an atmosphere we could um and then you could do the geometry like the geometry and everything um and and calculate the height of the sun and everything if there was no atmosphere and medium change all right so i think what we should do uh fellas because we got so many super chats is we should move into a speed round you know and and do this do this almost game show style so i'm going to set a 45 second timer and we're going to try to keep these questions for the speaker i know there's a you know a certain propensity you want to respond let's try to save that for your closer if you've got any extra thoughts so um i don't know how you see i don't want to say this name churk avenger says does light bend towards or away from a denser medium which way does the light have to refract to make an object appear lower 45 seconds on the clock light would have to bend refract up to appear lower and in a denser medium it bends down you think i think i've got that right in terms of the fraction well this is uh it seems like you're both kind of engaging here so go ahead you have 25 that's fine i think i think that yeah i think that's i think i answered it so that's good do you have thoughts mic 20 seconds no okay all right let me reset the old clock there we suggest people read through the transcontinental triangle triangulation and the american arc of the parallel where they correct planar measurements and globular lat long systems and heavily correct the celestial sphere 45 seconds over to you that was all lies thank you any other thoughts for your voice no he just lied a whole bunch all right did you uh he i've i've read it i've done the math i've i've i've got all of the details uh in uh in a spreadsheet all the numbers he lied oh oh he was it shane was that shane that shane shane shane you should read it dude oh he's coming right out went out the specific place where they do those things where they put those numbers in as you say what spicy mike's not holding back at this point and i love i love shane he's he's great i like him well that's good i was gonna say sometimes when you have those relationships with uh people you disagree with you can be a little extra spicy and just be like you know what all right let's carry on white says why all planets are round except earth 45 seconds uh yeah they appear you know round or circular or anything like that just again i mean if if the if they appeared like squares that wouldn't make the earth a square uh if if they were a certain color we we see stars twinkle different colors but our sun doesn't twinkle so they're not all doing the same thing you can't apply one one object to every other object uh it's it's considered when you when you consider an alternate cosmology you have to consider their claims not try to graph um solar geopeliocentric claims into the geocentric claims again if i play baseball round bat round ball you make square contact rounded batting average round the bases there's a round mound is the field itself um round uh the poles are straight is the field still rounder is it straight now the lines are straight so it's yeah all right pseudonym coming in did globe agree there's an eight inch drop there's a an eight inch linear drop from horizontal tangent yeah eight inches per mile squared linear drop from horizontal tangent but it's not useful for predicting the bottom up obstruction uh without further um calculations all right toby walker why do gps or range measurements equations rely on the relativity velocity of the receiver second part einstein was einstein was wrong about the speed of light and earth through earth's rotation well just putting that big one in there at the end toby that's good yeah amazing claims um or a toby amazing claims i i look forward to your papers and the nobel prize you will get any thoughts about what he said about the gps range measurements equations rely on relative velocity no okay let's carry on we've got we're more than halfway through don't worry fellas and like i said 45 seconds we're gonna just try to speed round how come nobody has ever reported or seen the edge of a flat earth do you think somebody would have observed that at some point in history also satellites prove the earth is round 45 seconds nathan if there was an edge with waterfalls going over and everything i'm sure someone would have found it i mean then again if they found it and fell off hopefully they didn't but we wouldn't know or you know who knows where they went uh the Antarctic coastline's a big wall and everything and so you can see pictures of it and it goes around us it keeps it's like a cup if you don't fill it quite up all the way you have the walls of the cup that's essentially Antarctica and satellites they they have military technology satellites uh various things that they can put up you can look up quantum meditation quantum locking so they could potentially be doing things with cold metal craft with receivers in them that cause some sort of floating in levitation it's it's it's the military i don't know they have no it's just just conjecture come on just just i mean there are things you can actually there are there are long long distance long time flight objects that they have like solar panel power our timers up and also it's very well advanced so if you saw me shaking my head i'm sorry to cut you off if you saw me shaking my head it was because i yeah you're good i choked to my own uh yeah that's fine it happens every once in a while where you just kind of like breathe in and yeah never mind me toby walker says why do gps says range measurements equate you already read it yeah this is the same question i'm so sorry toby but i don't think we're going to get much more on that i'm so sorry uh pseudonym says does he know a radius doesn't rely on curvature is he me oh that might have been for me when i was asking about like eratosthenes and like the greeks and everything and then uh so if you're trying to my understanding would be if you're trying to determine the curved like the the circumference of the earth you can look out at a boat and you can say okay if we can see at three miles that six feet is hidden we can work that back along the contour of an arc of a circle of a sphere and we can determine at two miles there's x amount of curve and at one mile there's eight inches of curve and at 10 miles there's 66.6 inches of curve and and then you can scale and say okay now we can make a ball we can we can take this little portion and we can extrapolate that out and wrap it and get a full curve a full circumference and that's using the horizon the distance of the rise in the curvature the rate that we would perceive and again that's were they factoring observer heights were they factoring the fraction and lapse rate and all these things back then to where they were able to get an approximation within what five percent of what the earth is now or two percent or two and a half percent or something like that uh did they have all these variables accounted Nathan that that's not how they measured the radius of the earth so then we'll go to cost your sticks Irene and the while yeah let's carry on it wasn't it wasn't what you described okay and i might i might conflate or conflate them a little bit but yeah i the horizon i was changing you can't determine the horizon so you can't yeah that'd be a terrible way to measure the radius of the earth use something else to where refraction isn't so wild well let us move on witsett is coming in with another super chat a lot of people are making fun of me because i choked that's fine uh you know it happens to us yeah i'm in canada you know it's really dry here every day it's dry so like you don't blame me witsett gets it says can you ask the maker right can you steel man he wants to know witsett he wants to know can you steel man sunsets on a flat earth certainly i did in my presentation yeah i i measured the the distance to to the sub solar point i measured the elevation of the sun hypothesizing flat earth and according to flat earth sunsets are not possible uh but austin you say you have no model so i can't steel man you're not model you it doesn't exist so i had to make the model for you buddy um you know a little bit of geometry i know your math isn't your thing but i did you know it's about you know ninth grade math all right let's carry on there toby walker says how do relevance explain a fresnel's drag i don't know ask a relativist are you a relativist yeah but it's not my it's not it's not my thing it's about the shape of the earth nobody can explain a sunset what time will the sunset tomorrow in minneapolis no flat earth or can explain that and you want to ask questions about relativity you're way out of your league guys okay i just i i wasn't sure what he might have meant by that so i don't know what i don't know what that topic is i'm not familiar with that topic so and when i said you i was i was passing the box so i mean you know yeah nathan if you you know consider yourself a relativist then you know you may have been able to answer that but you know certain things are relative to other things sure i mean that's kind of like that's what he's talking about cover all okay mystery late things before we get off track guys because we've we've been really on track for a long time and then we steered you know all over the place mr e-man can nathan produce any evidence to support the hypothesis hypothesis of the evidence of the aether uh so the aether would be a philosophical framework that we can then try to reason with extrapolate logic from and try to make predictions of characteristics of light if we created disturbance in the aether or increase the excitation level using light emitters uh light is gonna i say it's gonna it's gonna travel from its source outward it's gonna radiate out and um so it's a framework to allow us to to address light it's it's literally it's the same thing as spacetime fabric which is 96 percent your model or dark energy dark matter and all that those also are philosophies but they're claimed to have physical properties whereas the aether is well the aether can influence matter a little bit and have light carry and everything but it's it's a it's a philosophy and it's not i can't quantify it for you i can't grab you aether and hand it to you just like hey i'm gonna grab you spacetime fabric and you know knit you a shirt with it or something all right let's carry on space yeah okay go ahead no it's okay if you guys want to carry on it's up to you i'm trying to push this along because you asked me spacetime has been empirically confirmed and and luminiferous aether has been empirically falsified i believe models of aether have been but there are aether models that can still work not not the one that you need all right well there's other some are falsified and some are there the ones that are there are still able to be used let's move into the next uh one here guys and i'm gonna move our timer down 25 seconds uh just because like i said uh we were asked to keep this to three hours and we just got to three hours so we're gonna try to really push it along to uh help out our speakers here and get them out on a reasonable time because we really you know we really appreciate the speakers that come out here to modern day debate if you haven't already hit the like button and once again uh if you're hanging out in those contentious space spaces or if you are a contentious space share it out it never hurts um you know who what do you got to lose mr e-man asks uh that's we we just asked your question mid a witsa gets it oh oh boy witsa every time i see one of your questions i'm like oh god what's what what's it up to now uh i honestly though i i love you buddy and uh i can't wait to host you again it's been a it's been a pleasure hosting you every time and meeting you as a pleasure you spent two two minutes waffling i will waffle is it possible to have a waffle a vertical electrical field with parallel you uh equa potential surfaces like the earth around a sphere without radical distribution radial distribution um so witsa is uh is making a claim based on fine man's lectures i'm sharing it right now uh he likes to quote fine man's lecture starting at nine two right here nine one fine man's lectures by about 50 kilometers the field is very small it is not equa potential witsa read your own citations first law of life all right let's carry on uh did you do question for the flat earth or what is the mole of ci plus or c1 plus sorry or cl plus sorry cl plus clory right what is what is the mole of chlorine uh what is it like 19 grams or something of chlorine 6.022 times 10 to the 23rd atoms of chlorine is that is that what you're talking about an mol a mole of of an element i think if if the atomic weight of chlorine is 19 point something degrees i don't know periodic table with me but then the mole would be that many grams of that zero all right uh kango 44 uh let's see oh hold on let me just scroll down here witsa gets it uh coming in again glober do you actually not understand that if the sun is moving around the center of a vortex the radius of orbit will increase towards the outside uh that's an interesting hypothesis with exactly zero empirical evidence hitchens razor all right any other thoughts or yeah let's uh let's go on can you steel man sun sets on the flat earth witsa you already asked that yeah let's carry on sometimes there's a little bit issue here when i'm trying to scroll up here and check on the live chat to make sure you guys are behaving yourselves all right so witsa gets it once again he's got all kinds of questions uh another check let let let's go up here actually let's ask another question from another person uh zanaj says has pitch watched watched the most recent Artemis one video no i have not is it good you should watch them yeah Artemis one yeah it's where they where they went and orbited the moon with a rocket that was recently yeah it was in 2022 did they did they strap a camera onto the rocket a live camera be able to show that it's live real time and then fly it all the way there there were a bunch of cameras on it but they didn't live stream the entire thing no so they switched had thoughts nobody nobody nobody gives a damn about that nasa nasa's not trying to prove anything to flat earthers that the people that that uh they report to are not flat earthers and are not standing there well you need to prove to me that no no they just say look you you go to the moon you do this and why is your budget so much over the top you know you got to use your budget Artemis yeah except for don't don't worry about making it rain over the fry crops or over fires because they can't make it rain look up h2o h2o background youtube nasa makes it rain they can make it rain on our public tax fall and they do not off off topic consider consider the organization the ethics and laws i'd help the people if i could make it rain goodbye does it uh taking back eden says uh gd do you reject ancient hebru come cosmology why uh because it doesn't match reality okay taking back eden follows up christian would satan use the shape to lie to people yeah he doesn't have flat earthers all the time you go on facebook can you watch flat earthers lie over and over and over i have a folder of lies it's got hundreds of memes in it question was before the question so sorry mike go ahead yeah and if i could just add to that with um i do believe satan is the father of lies he can deceive people the bible says that uh even the elect could be deceived uh and if you do want to talk about fraudulence you have someone like uh steven hawking with his genius program where you can see the horizon behind board that they're saying is hidden by curvature you can see the helicopter flipping having doors not having doors the same birds flying over as it as the helicopter goes down goes up so there are you know it can go no one we shouldn't be if we're trying to discover truth and be scientific here we shouldn't be lying no bone wars or or you know lies about the and or tall man or anything let's let's be honest with the data and really try to assess uh together work together and who doesn't want to know the truth so all right wits it gets it coming in hey ilio centrist can you attribute physical properties to conceptual abstractions such as uh privitation space space cannot be endowed with physicality 25 seconds that's wits it's word salad misunderstanding of relativity it's not a privation he just says it is all right let's carry on wits it gets it comes in again glober how can there be no distinction between newton and einstein when they're patently opposed opposite claims do you know the three principles of logic 25 seconds einstein said no one must think that newton's great creation can be overthrown in any real sense by this or any other theory his clear and wide ideas will forever retain their significance as the foundation on which our modern conceptions of physics have been built einstein said that uh there they do not conflict with each other in fact they completely agree with each other here's four citations showing that um relativity solves for uh newtonian gravity in our reference frame here so there you go mc2.net slash einstein if you want to have a wall there i even have links to the pdf so you don't have to google them all right excellent i was just responding to some of the people in the live chat so thank you so much for all of your questions there and uh waffle waffle waffle before i get called out again here and get myself in trouble all right max corny says question for the flat earth or uh actually that that one's that one's coming on wits it see you see this is the what i get for skipping wits it's questions because he's got a whole pile of them sorry mc2 and you're gonna be busy for a second wits it gets it can gravity be a force and not a force at the same time it can space be absolute and fixed and not absolute and fixed at the same time um you didn't word that question right um i showed you reference there in the previous one to uh the agreement between einstein and newton so there's there's i don't know why you think that that uh space is is fixed or whatever you're talking about there space is not there's no absolute position in space didn't newton you was like the the universe is a background medium so that it like einstein has c as a constant whereas newton had c plus v or c minus v depending on the i don't think with uh newton referenced the speed of light okay all right harnold comes in and says paul mccartney has been dead for 50 years what yeah they haven't you heard get back oh panel jeez i heard christmas watch in the woods too get back to where you once belong all right let's carry on everybody i know i know i don't want to believe people would have harmed one another either for their own gain i true i love your optimism and i want to be there please i'll go there i'll go there i could easily go there because i would you know who would want to hurt someone i i'm with you all confuses the wrong there's no there's not no one would lie hurt to see i i want to be there i love your optimism oh yeah you know all these years i've been wandering around wondering how come nobody told me why ain't met nobody that looked like you all right wade emberley says why doesn't apparent size of sun changed through the day elevation magnification few factors but elevation really does play a large role in preserving angular size and shape as an object moves but lower down to the ground you go the smaller distances that you cover closer to you it will distort more that's why we can see things along the ground appear to shrink but if you're in the sky there's a lot more information a lot more span is being covered in the same unit that would be applied to the ground the same three five degrees 10 degrees of ground cover you're covering a lot more sky with 10 degrees a lot more distance that preserves the integrity of the shape and size all right let's carry on and i knew i was wrong it was all i've been looking for was somebody looked like a you i messed it up i hate that eam for 499 says nasa gets all uh eclipse or x-clips i don't know what they put nasa gets all eclipse info from fred espinac and his word work through sorrow's cycle nothing has changed uh actually that that is that is wholly incorrect you can go right to nasa's website and read about it uh it costs you exactly nothing to go to their website where they give details about how fred espinac specifically does these these uh predictions here he uses the vs op 87 ephemeris and the elp 2000 ephemeris to to to do this these are an ephemeris is a a it shows where the celestial objects are within the solar system at different points in time so that's how it's done it doesn't use the sorrow cycles for anything other than just naming conventions all right uh jam says uh did you hold on the one before that let's see wait emberley why doesn't apparent sun size change through the day i think we got that one yeah yeah hold on a second here my my nose is being a pain in the butt it's because i got the extra one next to it for when i'm doing all my mastercard nonsense uh marcus wean ten dollars question for pitch lumen what is the circumference and the radius of the flat earth um the radius and the circumference like around the edge probably i don't know like the coastline of an hour and six fifty sixty thousand kilometers maybe um the radius would be what 90 degrees 180 times 60 so like six four ten ten ten eighty or so i i don't have i don't have the measurements off the top of my hands i i i'm not i let me get a tape measure and i'll anyway i don't be 40 000 kilometers times pi so 120 120 kilometers for 125 127 130 kilometers somewhere in that yeah okay all right i'm just gonna as i extra tuck my work unit away so i don't accidentally touch my stuff that i have to do for my work job during the day once it gets it asks uh whitey wouldn't let me type his name actually yeah and other people typed my name i don't know i don't know what that's all about uh well i i got you figured out you're back in the live chat kick butt have fun play with some of the people in the live chat you know you're hanging on live chat you can tag mctoon live he's hanging out there so uh what's it gets it says the elias effect was actually observed and confirmed 17 years straight in harvard it directly correlated to periodically the sun a moon in solar motion 25 seconds i read i read the experiments that nasa published in uh 99 somewhere around 2000 plus or minus couple years they didn't they did not confirm it so one guy's experiment is once and then you need to you know you need external independent confirmation there was none all right leo crow coming in tune why do you defend the globe when so many fake images of the earth also you have dedicated so much of your life to defend the globe model if the flat earth is so stupid why do you do it i don't like misinformation like the misinformation about all of the claims that you just made about pictures uh every time that i see a picture that is is said to be faked i you you look at it and sometimes nasa does produce artistic renditions and they label them or there are fakes generated by flat earthers who's lying about space flat earthers are lying about space i get don't do that flat earthers i gotta fold that what do you hey what do you think about like the cloud duplication how we can get what where they label it as an an artist rendition then it's an artist rendition so what the actual photographs that you can get on uh photographic film that from the nasa from the Apollo missions you can go into the museum and look at those are not labeled as artist renditions they don't have photograph or a cloud reproductions and copy pasting could you discern that from a picture taken of a model i you would need to have an awful lot of models and so that and i would just simply ask who are the names of the people that made the models how many models did they make where did they house them where's the evidence for that claims without evidence are dismissed without evidence maybe if people thought it was to help with the cold war just in case we couldn't go to the moon we could potentially fake it really well so that russia would buy it itchens razor let's carry on there everybody if you see me laughing it's not because i'm responding to either one of what our live chats are saying my daughter is right behind me on the couch snoring very loudly and i'm very concerned that you're going to hear her uh so if you're any that's that's just in my nine-year-old all right so uh chink avenger says it to nathan it does light bend towards or away from the denser medium why does light have to bend to cause an object to appear lower the light bends down in a denser medium and what was the second part of that question second part which way does light have to bend to cause an object to appear lower up no thoughts because it's inverse right it's if it spins down and it appears higher if it spins up and appears lower okay any thoughts there uh michael do you want to carry on yeah all right let's carry on uh let's see question for picture limb what is the circumference and the radius of the flat earth with that one oh we already got through that one oh my goodness yeah we are getting close to the end my goodness i pop into the live chat every once in a while just to make sure everybody's behaving themselves but it seems like my little scroller's getting smaller and smaller uh so that's good you guys will be out of here in uh better time than i thought and if i get a little screwed up it's because yeah as you can tell i'm a daily daily driver for these kids over here so uh yeah my slave for you to it's swirling all the time which it gets it to clarify did toon actually just say that antitropic uh any astropic anastrophic a preferred direction propagation of gps signals would not refute reality you sure no i i just said probably not to his claim the thing is that the the medium through which it's going air and other other particles is also anastropic so it matches reality and predictions yeah so is his claim see his his claim rests on the on the absolute necessity that he's leaving out is that the the medium between the the sender and the receiver is isotropic but it's anastropic just like the timing is Nathan you're kind of not along yeah you're good good to go all right i don't know Nathan got that no it's i yeah it's i i think there is something to the way light light travels um and yeah anyway no it's i'm yeah go ahead go ahead are and Reese coming in Nathan if objects disappear bottom up then why don't camera lenses have a greater zoom factor at the bottom of the lens how do you turn the camera sideways without side distortion um the i mean the lens is taking in the light that it can based on where it's positioned what its f setting f stop is and and how wide the aperture is and then it takes in that light and the lens is one piece i'm sure if you added a second lens only to the bottom portion it would distort the what the bottom of the camera is taking in because it's going through another lens um and then turning it sideways side distortion i mean lenses do distort you have to put like a correction into them um to try to straighten them out a little bit uh sorry and i think certain lenses distort more than others and so would require more or less correction so all right let's carry on everybody uh let's move on to our last witsit gets it question uh are you scared to come to the aftershows as witsit gets it not at all you know it wouldn't it be nice if witsit came on here and debated measurements of flatness with me do you think you'd do that measurements of flatness our test those four lights observation is an observation that's not a measurement well cd measurements measurements have numbers c davis is coming in guys as asking mctoon how far away is the sun from an ocean side of her observer as it appears below the physical horizon how far away is it it's about 150 million kilometers i should celebrate your third super chat on our stream there because i see that uh tag in our stream there and i i should remember those i just uh i suck that's that's the real truth of it everybody i know you don't i'm the worst all right so witsit gets it uh coming in again um the newtonian space is absolute and fixed keep ducking the question though can space be absolute and fixed and not absolute and fixed at the same time nice uh bait and switch there so newtonian gravity is not newtonian space right the the newtonian grab what people call newtonian gravity is the law of gravitational attraction so the law of gravitational attraction is empirically confirmed never been falsified the um the newtonian space stuff was his interpretation of space a separate topic so it's a bait and switch there that he's doing because they both have newtonian in the name there he's trying to equate them so it's a false equivalency really what it is wouldn't if newtonian ideals were the main stake of of our understanding of cosmology then you would get rid of 4d spacetime fabric and you would go back to 3d orbital motion which would then they're not they're not it you'd go to kepler for that all right let's carry on uh that's uh that's been my tag of the evening let's carry on uh chronic avengers says for our last super chat uh actually we got a couple other ones here so let's uh yeah second last chronic adventure how is light bent up if denser medium is down any thoughts on the panel there no it yeah uh light is bent down when the denser medium is down causing things to appear higher all right for mc tune if your goal was to hide the true shape of the earth to the majority of people and you have unlimited budget how would you do it how would i do it um i don't know uh the the flat earthers are doing uh they're doing their best they don't have much budget so you know they do a good job hiding the shape of the earth for a small number of people and it's fun it's fun to you know poke at them a little bit but you know nobody takes them seriously small number of people i think in like 2019 flat earth was like one of the most searched terms and like it got even over like formal president and everything i think it got pretty popular it actually required the censorship boxes the free free speech stifling uh censorship you know wiki boxes under a small number Nathan still small number it's growing more and more one nice thing about multiple person debates as it shows there's many you know multiple people who have this kind of hold a hold a view like this but and i think it is kind of odd too that someone who is like a phd can say who works with geology can say it is it's actually rather difficult to try to determine if it's a sphere or flat i spent at least at the the distances that humans perceive and operate at and measure at i think that's striking all right uh let's see we got one last question and then we'll go to our closing statements everybody uh and then we'll move on to all of our aftershows and all the fun things that we're going to do after uh we have the real juice here at modern day debate social IQ says for mc tune if your goal was to hide the true shape of the earth the majority of everybody yeah sorry that is okay you know what yeah you're right that was supposed to be the last one and i i literally i i copied and pasted that as an extra so you know what i've i've messed this all up uh yeah this is great um yep everything's been read through i don't need to i'm i'm gonna hum my way through it anymore so how much do you guys want for closing one or two minutes i just a minute's fine with me one minute all right on the floor for you over to you pitch uh so i thank you mdd mic as well mic and mdd uh for for being here for the time for the the cordial conversation back and forth uh and i i did learn some stuff and have some things to look into um i just wanted to say that i think there's a lot to consider here there's a lot of things that play a lot of things that need to be demonstrated and can be demonstrated i i would hope people would think that uh would see that the flatter can explain things can demo things and is at least able to apply concepts or show concepts demonstration of concepts um and so i just i want to thank everybody i really do think that this this has some spiritual implications either way um especially leading towards peace religious wars or regular wars liars deceivers and i just wanted to actually throw this out here just decide anyone who who wants to um as far as like spiritual stuff or biblical um the the the youtube channel the truth is stranger than fiction is a fantastic channel he does amazing work the truth is stranger than fiction and he doesn't know i'm saying anything but i just want to shout him out because he puts a lot of work out there that covers a lot of concepts um and i just wanted to throw that out but really thank you um thank you you both for um for allowing this and i really i had a had a blast so no problem at all uh thanks for being here and if anything i've learned is to you know just keep everything in the fan funding and don't copy any of these super chats into notes just keep it all on the youtube because that just confused the heck out of me mic you got a minute on the floor uh closing thoughts yep all right i'll wrap up one thing because wissett was crying about my uh my steel man of of the flat earth sunset let me remind everybody coming for you i'm sorry witz is saying come for you now go for it you're you're dead yeah yeah go for it i was just saying you call remind everybody you weren't done let me remind everybody witzett said this we don't have a model so i you can't i can't straw man your model because it does not exist what i did witzett is i computed the consequences of your claims and the sun could never set over flat earth if you can compute the consequences differently let me know uh anyway thank you to ryan and to uh nathan for this it was a great conversation much better than uh one could then uh the one that started last week so uh thank you for that uh but into well not really so specifically witzett measurements of flatness and measurements have numbers uh units and uh best if they have a a margin of error analysis bring it up do you do you got the stones also i'd like to say that nathan tomsen had a chance to debate me but he decided to show that he knows that i would beat him and duck out uh same thing for for flat earth dave and eric debate and these other guys when they refuse to debate me it's them acknowledging that uh they don't they don't have anything so uh that's what i got thanks everybody all right well let's close it out there everybody so if you haven't had a chance to already hit the like button uh do so i'm sorry if i had interrupted you there uh mike during your closing i was just uh uh having some fun with your implications to uh give any crap uh no it's fine you know i i take it with uh super uh you know super stride don't worry about that at all uh i look forward to hosting you again and uh you as well nathan will have all kinds of uh lots of lots of discussions here on modern day debate once again share this out in those contentious spaces you like having these discussions we're gonna close it out uh cheers everybody have a good peace be with you thank you