Test, test. Long to your ping. Hello, hello. Thanks for your play. I have a viewed thing with my camera. I'm half in another call, which was supposed to happen just before this one. And it didn't. And now I'm sitting and seeing if it happens or if it doesn't happen. So I'm kind of sitting in two. Hey, Shelby. Hello. Hey, Simone. And Cornelia. Hello. And I'll be brushing. I've got issues with my camera, so I would be switching it on. Hello. Hello. Happy almost summer. At least that's what I'm mentally doing here in the Northeast, where it snowed last week. It was 70 degrees Fahrenheit. And then the next day it snowed. And then it was 50 degrees Fahrenheit. And today it's cold and gloomy. So I'm just going to assume that some are coming eventually. No, nobody is still not skating. So good. We have people from quickly. That's super nice. So let's get started. As a reminder, please, everyone, write yourself in. I'll share the link once again. So everyone, feel free to write yourself in. So yeah, Matt, you wanted to take the first section. So I'll hand the floor to you. All right, hello, everybody. Great. So this is a CNCF call, CNCF code of conduct replies. I think of it as we will be kind to our colleagues as we are. I wanted to just put a couple of things that I had alluded to this at the very tail end of last meeting in the last few minutes. But as we look forward through 2021 at what's next for the SIG, we've spent a lot of time on due diligence reports. And now we've got the white paper that's gaining traction. But I want to just put some things out there as we have a lot of attendees headed to Coup Con shortly in the EU. And really, what comes next for the SIG? What's our purpose? And so I just wanted to provide some ideas and some vision that I think are really low hanging fruit. And there's more, but I'm just going to cover a couple today that are not controversial. The first would be to generate a list of vendors in the observability space and have some sort of look at what projects that they actively contribute to. This sort of forms the source material for an observability who's who. So if a smaller medium business or even a large business wants to engage with the CNCF broad set of projects, particularly in the observability space, they have a starting point. And the system feedback from end users in particular is that the space is broad, difficult to grok. There's a lot of players and a lot of options. So just a fundamental starting with a list of who in the vendor space where much of the technical contribution is paid for by these vendors. And we all come together in this, I don't want to say vendor neutral space, although that term is used, but just generate a list of vendors, what they're working on, what the roadmaps might be with links to what projects they contribute to. The second, and this is a couple of things here, this is the first of them where we could really use contribution from product or program managers that are technical that can work in contact with engineers, but develop a serious plan for how the SIG will engage with other projects.  Many of them are doing fairly complicated things. And sometimes engaging with those from personal experience, an example might be flux. It does a really cool thing with GitOps, but understanding how and why things worked or didn't work ends up with log diving combined with a requirement that somebody be deeply, have deep technical understanding of what's happening. And the project in version two is doing work around observability, but many, many projects I think could benefit from the SIG reaching out and saying, hey, perhaps a very small new project in the sandbox or even some of the more established projects, there are vast opportunities to help people understand what's happening in that project as it runs and does whatever it does. So here again, I think we have an opportunity to start building up relationships and to leverage our existing professional networks to reach out to those projects. We received positive feedback from this notion late last year from the TOC, but I would like to put in a program so that we could have a horizontal scale out if you will and we could leverage the connections that we already have. So developing what that plan is and how we do that, that's an opportunity for someone to really step up and really define a program for the year and beyond and to drive it. Third, develop another pragmatic series plan for how the SIG will foster in-person meetups in a scalable way once the world reopens from the pandemic. I'm sure documentaries and movies will be made about 2020, but KubeCon North America is still far enough out if there's tons of time to plan for it. And in the past, we've had folks come to the SIG saying some variation of, hey, in my local geography, we wanna make a local meetup group focused on observability. So I think defining a program to support that, to provide materials that might jumpstart, how would you make a local area meetup in your geography? That could be an accelerator to really build out a grassroots set of meetups that can then kind of bubble up interesting findings or reports or presentations or talks or what have you. So again, this is someone we've experienced with particularly cross-organizational outreach and or just defining what that program is in a way that is welcoming to new contributors so that we can horizontally scale our efforts in an asynchronous way. There's two more. I think that we should, as a SIG, as a work stream generate personas that articulate the expectations, the opportunities and the needs of a few set of folks and if I could see the pot, some obvious ones are end users of observability projects. So companies like EverQuote or many others that are either working with vendors or are developing their own expertise and building engineering teams that are either using or contributing to these projects that are within the scope for our SIG. A second would be vendors. Like they, again, typically foot the bill, if you will, by paying for engineering time to let this, the project that this ecosystem is built around thrive. So what are their expectations for the SIG and what opportunities or needs do they have that we can structure our activities to engage with, to make this truly welcoming for us all to come together, make sure needs are met. Third would be individual projects, as I had mentioned, and their contributors. It could be a sandbox project that has a great technical idea with an initial implementation, but no observability stuff, no metrics or they're struggling with as many companies and many products start to engage with other modalities of communicating what's happening with the services that comprise that project. They might want to use AR or VR or other types of things that are not simply logs, metrics, traces, right, but are emerging. So vendors would be a second persona. I'm sorry, projects and their contributors would be a third persona. And then at the chair and technical lead level, there's a fourth persona there that's the TOC, right? What does the TOC need from the SIG? What are their expectations? And so I think just like personas are useful for defining a project stakeholders or a product stakeholders and customers, these personas could help us figure out when we're doing something like a white paper, like which persona is it for or is it for multiple? But here again, some non-pure coding type folks who might have expertise in product or project or platform management or definition could really contribute here in concert with the engineering folks and others that have been joining the call. So again, here I think we can broaden our tent and as we'll have a lot of eyeballs in KubeCon, I would like to extend a welcome to those other disciplines that are really necessary to have a pragmatically multidisciplinary successful specialist group. And then lastly, if anyone throws a rock on YouTube, there's a wealth of the technical talks as well as higher level architectural talks or product talks in the observability ecosystem. Everything from Cortex and Thanos and Prometheus to open metrics and open telemetry and how all of these pieces are put together. I did a quick look through my YouTube playlist and I've got 50 or 60 talks that are the ones that I would recommend of many more that I've watched. So I think we could curate a list of these or a compendium so to speak of additional resources. Does somebody really wanna really get into metrics and understand what's read? What metrics should I define? Or how should I put these pieces together? So some combination of a curation of case studies or talks that are in effect case studies. Again, for folks new to this space and new to the domain, it could provide a nice starting point to existing content that's summarized in some discernible way. That doesn't involve the sig generating content. I mean, we can leverage a lot of existing things in the CNCF ecosystem. So I just wanted to put that in the minds of the folks listening and those that might be watching this talk from KubeCon or otherwise, that there's a lot we can do in 2021 and I'll follow this up with a PR and concert with Richie and we'll iterate and talk about it offline, I suppose, or in Slack, but that's really just, I wanted to surface that at some more detail than I did at the tail end of last meeting, but I'm excited for the remainder of this year and the summer, not just for the warmth, but I think there's just a huge opportunity for us to again, horizontally scale our efforts as a group. And then lastly, and then I'll turn it back over to Richie and we'll get on with the rest of the agenda. This special interest group is by and for the community, which is all of us that are on this call and a whole bunch of people who probably don't know about this call or are not sure if they should join because they don't see how they can engage and contribute. And so as we've done with the white paper and other things, anyone is welcome to define new work streams and say, hey, almost like not to leverage a, I suspect there's a lot of gamers in the cloud native space, but you could almost think of it as like, hey, looking for group, like I'd like to do this thing. Who else is interested in this thing too? We reach out to your network to folks that aren't already here and bring them in. I would like to see that sort of be the nature of our special interest group, like a place where interesting things might happen and little dopamine hits can be had as we learn about the ways that people are using the projects in the CNCF umbrella and how we're welcoming new projects into it. So that's it. I'm back sort of full-time after maybe a quarter doing some self-care. And I'm happy to get up to my eyeballs and all of this all over again. So thanks. And if there's any comments or feedback on any of that, Ricky, I know that you've got the agenda for today, so I wanna make sure we're still with you. Max, you like that? I was just about to make one point of order. I have just been informed that I might need to drop into a super, super urgent and important call privately. So I might drop at any point during the remainder of this call. But yeah, as this, everything what Matt just talked about needs people. And it means both owners and people who just help or who give feedback or whatever. So this is very much a call for people to step up and just do what they think they want to be doing either from this list or if you have some other ideas, go wild. I mean, with any constraints of the sick. But this is very much a call for more hands. Of course, that is how we can start paralyzing more. Historically, the last year, the group was relatively static that has changed towards the end of last year and that has become better and better. So this is absolutely great to see. And it is also a great point in time where you can just step up and say, hey, I'm super interested in this and that thing. I want to do it. Yes, please. Very much so. Another suggestion. I'm not sure if everyone here was following the white paper when we started late 2020, we had really small contributed base and we were thinking about how we can get more volunteers. And then we did a tweet between a trend of Twitter. We got a few retweets and certainly we had more than 20 volunteers for the white paper. So Twitter, I think it's a great tool to make the community aware that we are working on something and that we need help. Yeah, that's my suggestion. Let's make our work more visible just like we did with the white paper back then. Yeah. I think that's a good point and I can talk to Jesse and such to see if CNCF can also help amplify that a bit. As to others, this is your chance. If you're interested in any of those, now is the time to speak up or if you have anything else which you want to suggest, now is a good time. Really any time, right? I mean, that now is great, but as just a normal operation of the SIG, like this can happen at any time and I hope it does.  As Arthur mentioned, just throw a hand up and you might be surprised at who comes out and wants to jump in and contribute. Just curious, do we know how like other SIG groups like handle projects like these? Are there like little like working committees or subcommittees that may meet within the larger SIG to kind of move these types of projects forward? Yes, there is. So in the CNCF charter, I'm sorry, in the SIG observability charter in our repo, there's a link to the specifics, but there are technical leads and working groups and working groups in particular, I think, are how many other SIGs will do this. Some of the things that we've been doing if you look back through the calls over the last couple of months, we're on due diligence for Cortex open metrics, open telemetry, et cetera. So some SIGs do these in the context of a working group. A working group is, you know, it's meant to be a project with defined outputs and a time boxing, if you will, that runs, you know, as a work stream and then reports back up to the SIG on its status. And really, when the CNCF, they have a SIGs.md, I believe it's called, where they define like, what is a special interest group? And there's a lot of autonomy given to us as a group to define additional roles, like we could have, you know, curator of the case study committee on, or, you know, whatever makes sense for us we can do and those groups that might form around those could be called working groups formally. Up until now, we have not had the happy problem of having more work than we could do, you know, an hour together all at once in a single meeting and the white papers and example of that where the folks actually contributing are defining how they meet, in this case, at Slack, you know, and so, yes, in short, there's a, we have a lot of latitude and we can do whatever makes sense for us. Yeah, no, thanks for the context there. Just looking at like the Zoom chat looks like a few people are interested. So maybe starting a working group for some of these initiatives would make sense. But we can always take that offline to Slack to kind of see if that would make sense. I'll follow up this sort of verbal onslaught if you will, not to be too self-deprecating with something that's a little more concrete we can look at. But again, we control our own destiny here and that's one of the nice things about, I say it gets, it's a coalition of the willing, right? So, you know, newcomers and additional folks are gonna bring your friends, you know, let's, let's do, it's a, there's no shortage of interesting work, right? So. And you don't need to, you don't, like you can put all of this in A-Sync but precisely this kind of initial coordination and such in my experience is great to do live if people want to. So we can easily just take some time out of, out of this call for people to synchronize on this. I see Shelby wants to talk about the personas for example. So if you want to start this now, now is the time. Else we move on to the white paper it's totally fine but you should have that space to actually use it for live synchronization. Yeah, I would encourage folks to, if you want to see a model for how this can work once we actually do scale up and we're doing more in parallel, you know without having a choke point at a single meeting where we walk through one thing at a time. You can look at the TOC meetings. They have a pretty nice structure that facilitates that. Yeah, sounds, I mean, I think that sounds like a plan. I don't know, Shelby or whoever else might be interested if we want to maybe take time now. I don't know if we have enough thoughts put together for how this might work. I would also be interested in helping out with some of these, but maybe we coordinate a little bit first on Slack offline and then next meeting we can come with more of like a plan, I'm not sure. Yeah, I'm happy to talk on Slack about just sort of how to purchase stuff. In general, I'm really comfortable working on GitHub sort of asynchronously, but I know that's not accessible to everybody so we can discuss in Slack how we want to protect. Thanks, Rami. Anyone else? Okay, so then we can move over to the white paper. As I might need to drop at a moment's notice, Arthur, do you want to share your screen and walk through it? Yeah, sure. Maybe it has given more attention to me in the last moment. The last time we were cleaning up a little bit the comments, most of what's left today in the file is things that I think they should be rewarded. I think there is a better way to write this and so there are no editorial stuff like we had last time. So I was just scrolling through the doc here before and I didn't see any major things besides suggestions and thanks for the new metric section. There is like a whole new piece of text here but it could start, I don't know, it could, do you want to start from the beginning? I think maybe the ones which we have read once, we don't need to reread immediately, maybe the ready for review ones. Yeah. So if we scroll down the ready to review, we have, I think the first one that pops up is the logs. Logs that was contribution from Raphael and few other comments and some people that left other ideas to the text. So I didn't review the text, I just saw that Yona left some comments here more recently but they were not taken by Raphael yet. Is Raphael in the call today or not? I don't think so. No. Yeah. So you might have to call him on Slack and ask for him to come here and have a look at his comments. So logs next meeting then are half-way? Yeah. Yeah. So Raphael is in the logs. Traces are in here for a long time. Right. Juracy left, he basically built this section and I think one comment that people had was about the figures that was like too small and hard to read something. I agree with that. We're going to have to fix this at some point but is anybody else writing anything about distributed tracing or volunteering in any form? To call. So as far as I see, there are seats that went on. Arthur, can you, something is I think wrong with the mic because barely, I can barely hear you. Okay, sorry. We two, one of us are both. Arthur, okay. So for the continuous profiling section, we don't have anybody yet. For the crash dumps, I volunteered. I have already something. I just didn't paste it here. I'm sorry, could you repeat those messages for my mic? For the crash dumps, I have already something. I volunteered for this section. I just didn't paste the content. For the continuous profiling, we don't have anybody but we had someone suggesting continuous profiling as part of the section that describes the observability signals. And I think this should appear in the introduction as well when we talk about the three pillars but we shouldn't say that the three pillars are the only things that we have. These are the signals that we have to, let's say, more established today but probably we are going to find out that other signals are also interesting. And then in this section, we can talk about the crash dumps, the continuous profiling and other suggestions that people have. I'm curious if someone from the conproff project can repeat those. I'm just dropping, see you soon, see you. Yeah. Also, I did add a continuous profiling thing at the bottom but I wasn't sure what the deal is here of if I'm looking at the same thing, yeah, down below service mesh. Oh, you added, okay, you added here. Well, I didn't know what the deal was if it was a thing that just anybody could add. So yeah, I've been working on a continuous profiling project and I stumbled on this white paper randomly and then it just said TBD for continuous profiling so I went ahead and just added my thoughts, I don't know. These are slightly based off of also like Google has a continuous profiling paper and then also just my general thoughts on where it fits into the whole, you know. It does, it really does. Thanks for that, Ryan. So I move it back here. I move it a little bit up where we are talking about observability signals. Is it okay if I put your name next to the section if you want to add something else, add the reference that you just talked about or some, it doesn't mean that you, let's say that you are locked into this section now and you have to watch this document every week but at least we know who started here and eventually somebody else continues or you continue yourself. Is it okay? Yeah, you're doing that yourself. Okay, great, thanks. I just delete then from back from down here. One question, Ryan. When you wrote that down here, you were able to write without a suggestion? No, I just suggest, so it said TBD and then I just like suggested instead of TBD that next and then I guess somebody like merged it in or whatever. I don't know who, but I can, it was kind of like where Perry is right now. It was kind of like that, except I just replaced TBD with like the full text that you see. Yeah, no problem. I was just surprised, I haven't seen that before and then it was just merged already. Yeah, but great, thank you. It wasn't me. You merged it at least. Okay, great. Yeah, then it looks like we have some, we were looking for someone to talk about continuous profiling because somebody suggested as like a piece that's entering the observability picture, but we didn't have anybody directly working with it or that have had experience. I could speak briefly. I think, so I had pasted in a couple of diagrams just as like, not like this should be the diagram, but like we could have something like this that I had stolen from Richie's talk from KUKON last year, but the KONPROF project is actually distinct from the Stackdriver Profiling Stack. There are two different projects. What KONPROF is, I believe it's a young project. I don't know if it's in the CNCF, I don't think it is, but in a nutshell, it's the guts of Prometheus hacked up a bit. I'm not doing it justice, I'm sure, but so instead of the value being a metric that's tracked over time, you know, in 64, it's a go profile and I believe they're working on Python as well. So it's basically what you described, but as an MVP early project, I wasn't sure if that was a project you were referring to, but I think that the most recent Grafana KON, I wanna say earlier this year or late last year, there was a talk on that project called KONPROF, which is effectively this, but it's very early and I don't know the details, Percy. But I'd love to hear what you're working on, Ryan. It sounds super cool. Yeah, I actually didn't add the references. I didn't wanna like, yeah, like promote, I mean, it's an open source. So we're also similar to KONPROF. We're doing it, I guess, like slightly differently, but yeah, it's basically continuous profiler, works for Go, Python, Ruby and EBPF. And yeah, we just like release, or we just open source it at the beginning of this year on like January 1st and have just been working on it since then, me and one of my friends. Awesome. Yeah. But similar thing, yeah, just like KONPROF just does it. I think KONPROF uses, yeah, like Prometheus more heavily. We basically get our own sort of like custom storage and compression and use that as our sort of like backend, but both of them use like sampling profilers to be able to like have low overhead, get the profiling data and then send it to the server. Yeah, this to me is an exciting area of observability generally. I mean, continuous profiling is something that has been in training for like the better part of 20, 25 years, but we can never do it before because network bandwidth, storage, compute, blah, blah, blah. And now in this new kind of, in this new cloud native world that has been rapidly expanding, we have all these new capabilities to do things that we couldn't do before. So I'm very enthusiastic to see what happens in the space. Yeah, I am too. Hey. And it's nice to meet you and welcome. Yeah, thanks. Got any white paper? What we have been discussing earlier is to try the most to not like do marketing to any tool. Doesn't matter if it's since yeah, for not, but just focus more on the methodologies and what we are doing. But... Yeah, I didn't add this. Yeah, yeah. I know, I know. Yeah, so I wrote all the, basically all this text I wrote and then whoever merged it in added the references. Yeah, like... Yeah, there's nothing to do with the story. I'm not trying to repeat anyone. The process thus far, I mean, we're really in content generation mode here. You know, we're shaping up and it's been really cool to see all the contributions broadly. I think at some point, I don't want to speak for Arthur or Simone, but I believe at some point we'll put a pin in it and we'll probably do like a rewrite. I thought to do this in the last week, but it didn't seem ready yet and I had some questions around like the high level goals and I didn't feel like word smithing without letting the rest of the content come through first made sense. It's always easier to prune things and remove duplication than to... Yeah, that was also one of the things I was kind of interested in coming to this to learn more about is sort of like, what is the ultimate, I guess, yeah, like goal of these like white, or I guess kind of like, yeah, I don't know, just some extra context from I guess the people who work on it more, I guess, you know, seriously, just like how you guys think about it and where it's sort of like, what its role is in the whole like, you know, CNCF landscape and everything. Okay, please, do you want to say something? Yeah, I mean, the, I mean, from the SIG, at least for the white paper, the goal is to have also like a more solid reference when somebody comes to CNCF and looks after observability and tries to understand how we understand observability and we're not trying to make any marketing pitch here for any tools like Arthur said, but this is more, it's more like an overview. Other SIGs, if you have seen other SIGs in CNCF, for example, there was a white paper from the security, I think a security SIG or something similar last year. So they also produced a similar document. I think it's a Github even where people just have as a more consolidated reference and how the topic is, let's say, framed, how we understand how the CNCF like understands the topic and things that we, the community agree that are important and how they work. So this is at least the output from the white paper, but it's not the only output from the SIG. So the SIG, so we have been doing due diligence and other things as part of the SIG as well, but it's not the only outcome, I would say. So there is another document that has been under review or generated about, it's more about tracing and how you as an application developer get from zero to start using tracing and how it works. This is more like looking at the application developer perspective, instrumentation and looking at the APIs and the data collection. So this is the sort of thing that I think that the SIG does in the SIG, in the SIG, in terms of output, but we had other ideas already that some were good, other ones were up and down quite quickly. So I've just read both papers with fresh eyes or in their current state. My takeaway, and again, this is just an opinion not with my chair hat on, but just as Matt. The second paper that Simone was just referring to on distributed tracing, to me, reads more like a very good start at what would become, say, a self-guided walkthrough or a lab. Here's how you do it, using a certain set of tools that the SIG is not saying are that set of tools. And I would love to see a bunch of these documents or guides or walkthroughs that can be generated by us, whomever, about different ways people are using these. Cause if you look at the projects, it's really like a bunch of Legos and you can put them together lots of different ways, depending on the needs of your business and your goals. The white paper we're looking at now to me feels like it's a great, in progress white paper that's more around noun definition and defining terms with the goal of establishing maybe not the vocabulary, but at least a common vocabulary so that when we're talking about, there's a lot of overlap between some of these things. And in fact, the three pillars is kind of not really a great model for that, for reasons discussed in the paper. So I'm really excited that we're coming together on just helping folks that are new to this dizzying set of different projects and signals and metrics and terms and let alone how you operationalize it or implement it, but just what is this stuff? This paper, I think, at least again, from a fresh reader's perspective, aims to do that. So the audience is like, are you new to this space? Do you not know what people are talking about when they say distributed tracing or continuous profiling or what have you? So, and again, that's just my opinion. Keep me honest here, Simone and others that have actually been doing the writing. Can I ask one thing on the content just real quick? On the traces section, are we missing like a little bit more detail on trace propagation like W3C context, trace context comes to my mind. I was too busy to do anything on this thing, but I'm chair of W3C trace context and I feel like I have to add this in a one way or the other. Also, a section on history would make sense. About open tracing, open census. And I was actually a fanboy of very early open tracing. I wasn't able to use it, but I implement it. But I'm not talking about open tracing. Now I'm talking about W3C, the W3C standard on trace context. Yes, what I meant is I was referring to recently open tracing and open census merge geometry, but that's just one example that the canon, the history of distributed tracing, which really the W3C tracing context and context propagation and just distributed tracing as a concept is decades old now, right? And perhaps a section that, as you say, kind of elaborates on what some of these standards are and what some of the history is, which is inclusive of the open tracing project, the hotel, the other things I mentioned and W3C, as well as like perhaps additional links to references in the W3C ecosystem of folks that have implemented things to that standard, like in particular, as I've talked to various companies over the last month, as well as other stakeholders, I think distributed tracing is probably, is and perhaps always will be one of the more complicated things that's hard for the summer to develop and sometimes even just common terms and definitions are lacking. And so, yeah. I think also this is something from like talking with customers that many get wrong. So distributed tracing is often misunderstood as a whole. And I will try to fill in the blanks here. I don't know if it should be a separate section or if you can tuck it into traces. I'm not completely sure about that. Yeah, and I think also there's a couple, there's like the instrumentation side obviously, but then particularly in the CNCF, there are multiple trace back ends. They have a lot of vendors that are selling a SAS variant of their own back end. So I don't know if it's in scope or out of scope, Arthur and Simone and others, but perhaps something that talks about the trade-offs of what the true costs are of running your own tracing full stack locally versus leveraging vendors that have economies of scale that can provide a lower total cost of ownership. I mean, in our case, and ever quote, we've used both vendors as well as for some things our own in-house things that we're prototyping in our case, you know, Yeager and Tempo and some other stuff, I think in R&D, but, you know, the total cost of running everything yourself can be quite high and as oftentimes not talked about in purely technical papers that talk about, well, you do this, that, but you know, I don't know though if that crosses out of the technical and into the operational. That's not what I think. I personally would not go there. Sorry, Arthur. I think like the costing is a really important factor to decide for beginners that don't know what to choose costs is a very important thing to analyze. So I do agree that it's an important topic to add. Different vendors have different back ends and they can manage traces or metrics differently with different costs. So yeah, I do agree that's a great topic. Just to be specific, I am categorically not suggesting we build a big table of vendors and what the cost and what the cost would be. I more mean just at a meta level discussing that the total cost of ownership involves implementation, you know, support, and then just, and then we can reference some of the other things I mentioned at the top of the hour, you know, there's a rich ecosystem of vendors that can help and contractors and everything else or you could do it yourself. But I would want to steer very clear of like specific costs or making any kind of king making or favoritism but just talk about as a technology leader, here are the things that when implementing distributed tracing for your business that one should consider sort of a look before you leap, but yeah. Yeah, I mean, this is a journey or also a kind of warmth that is sometimes somethings you don't want to. But anyway, I'm not opposed to it, but it's extremely difficult discussion, this cost of ownership discussion because it's pretty complex. After all, you never know, it also depends very much on the use case and the size of the business and what you really want to achieve and whatever, you know. Yeah, my mind is like, here's things to think about but not here's how to do it because as you said, it gets very scary quickly if you try to go too far. I kind of have a question about this too, like when you're talking about like costs, like one of the things also, yeah, that I'm interested in in this space is like the, almost like the benefits as much as the cost or the benefits in context of the cost of like, yeah, we know that tracing allows you to track down things and whatever, but I don't know, it seems like how do you balance the cost of having to instrument a bunch of like spans in your code with the benefit of being able to see that kind of thing? I don't know, does that make sense? I'm also kind of just curious what you guys think, just like in terms of like the, yeah, like how do you weigh the benefits of adding tracing to your system basically? So it's like, yes, you can track something down, but is that worth the amount that like you're talking about that it ultimately costs to add something like this to your systems? Yeah, I think that ties into the point someone was making about instrumentation in general where it's like, what does that look like as an end user or like as a practitioner? How, what's the level of effort in the ROI on instrumenting my code versus using like it really depends on your language ecosystem, but like for example, open telemetry Java does auto instrumentation with the Java agent and you don't even have to change like any, like a single line of code. And so like what, you know, what's the level of effort in ROI on that for different like language stacks and stuff versus and sort of also the, I think of it like the crossing that threshold from like capturing data outside of the runtime code versus like inside the runtime code and what you can get from that. I can take a crack at that and see how big it gets. I don't wanna just like derail that whole section, but I think it's really a good thing for people to think about because a lot of people here instrument your code and they think it looks like, you know, wrap every single method in like, you know, another layer of junk and it doesn't have to be that way. Yeah. I think also the personas that I mentioned might help here because like what we've just been talking about is the cost to a developer to instrument their own code, which is a concern or to do whatever's necessary to make traces happen for their service or for their code. I was actually talking more from like the, from the business perspective, like if I'm going to run my own trace stack, my own backends operationally and have SLAs back to engineering teams, like there's costs around there as well, that well, I don't think we can quantify generally. We could talk about like, if you're running a business or if you're a startup or you know, those total costs can be really hidden sometimes and you end up having, you know, half of your development resources might be going to tooling that you didn't really think that you had to do because you didn't know going into it that these could be some hidden costs around total. So not just from a developer persona, but from a business persona as well. Yeah, certainly monitoring company. Are the personas we like to work in? I think that's pretty common. I think meanwhile is we have, first we have developers, we have cloud architects that have like the bigger picture in mind, then we have the ops, SRE or ops is almost one person on its own. Then we have the SRE that has again different needs. So maybe, I don't know. I think it's common knowledge if we discuss personas, maybe it helps. Running out of time I think. Yeah. If you're gonna improve the tracing section could be dangerous seekers, just so he doesn't get caught by surprise. One thing I suggested back in the days was also to talk about, because in tracing you have, even in cloud native you have two dimensions. You have the dimension where you trace vertically your application, let's say it's an application that it's on an application working inside its own pod container. But you could have an application that interacts with a bunch of other service. So you have the time dimension. So this was back in the day more treated like system tracing when you're working with monolithic systems. If you worked with Perl for LTT and G or something like that in Linux. But as you move to cloud native or containerized applications you have the time dimension as well. Like these applications using the network to interact to each other. And then you have the distributed tracing dimension. This was one suggestion I made back in the days because at least from the corners that I come from it's usual a confusion when you talk about trace and you are not specific. If the person can think about that I'm talking about Perl or things that are monolithic tracing instead of distributed tracing. So it's not a term that is if you're not specific enough you don't cause confusion in the person that's on the other side. But that was not, it was not adopted in the section but that was a suggestion that I made back. I think it's been a long time that we should include the system tracing part as well. If somebody knows a little bit of the work from for example, Brandon Klag, the guy from Netflix this goes a little bit in this direction. Okay, but we came up four words then if you don't have any other comments. So the crash dump, I said that I'm going to add at least a part from the crash dumps. There were other people talking about other sort of dumps, heap dumps or whatever other dumps. And I added here the section. They can of course suggest as subsections what they would like to write about but they still have to add my text here. So the correlation of observability signals Bartek said that he would take this section. So we can ping him on the slack as well. Just to check. Is that actually related to the exemplars? How to correlate traces, logs, measurements, is that it? I don't know. I think you have to ask him. Looks like we are almost done, right? Do you have a few sections too? There are few sections that are still empty. So the data visualization and exploration, David. I don't remember when he suggested this one here but we can ping him anyways. I had another suggestion for a new section if it's not already there. And that's the correlation of activity data and costing data. There's a couple open source projects. Like if you actually go to AWS and say, hey, I'm running AKS, how do I correlate this? They point you at cube costs for other kind of vendors. Some of them have some beginnings of things. Google had a data a while back that used some Stackdriver Brits to do the same thing. Take audit data from the Kubernetes activity stream. And audit mechanisms and then correlating that with other things. But that general topic of using the observability data and then mixing it with other things. I don't know if that gets again out of sort of the scope for the paper or if it makes sense to just introduce the concepts that, hey, this is a thing people do and here's some links to examples of that but it's still nascent, right? But that would enter in the correlation, right? In the correlating observability signals that you can add there, I would say. Makes sense. So there is this one here from Service Mesh. They use cases from Michael, we can ping him as well. This one is defined since a long time and he had some good ideas about use cases or at least examples from AWS. Alerting on observability data. This is a new one and I think David suggested just to see how it would be the reaction if we if we leave it like it is or not. I think maybe we can just let it out. It's like- This is a little bit in the correlation, right? Because you're going to look into different observability data to generate alerts or I'm not sure, have to ask him if this is not something that would be under the umbrella of the correlating observability signals. My point is that we don't have many too many people here right now or people are already leaving and he added like 30 minutes ago. Maybe we can discuss further on slack. If more people agree, then yeah, let's leave it. I think we can decide. I mean, it's up for y'all to decide if it's in the context of this or not. But I do think that alerting specifically is sort of what to alert on. So not so much like what our metrics but like what metrics should I define? And there's like RED and USC or RED and use are two common frameworks for that. So I wasn't sure based on his comments if he was talking about sort of writing a section on best practices around where should you instrument or of the many metrics you could pull out of Kubernetes or anything else, what should you do? Or if that was not what he was talking about with alerting, so I'm not sure either but I do think that that is something that most people that once they deploy these tools they're like, great, now I have two million time series. Like what do I actually alert on so that I don't make people crazy? And here again, there is a wealth of existing tech talks that go deep into this that we could simply reference or maybe we could introduce some, you know, RED and use as concepts or as nouns. And then leave it there. I'll leave him on slack and ask him what he meant. And yeah, but I do believe that we always said that. And I took notes here from the remaining sections that are kind of abandoned. There are no owners or nothing. I mean, some have no owners, for example, the zero to heroings of salability. But the remaining ones, they have some body but no content. So we can ping these people on a slack and then we see if they're still interested or they just forgot about it. But yeah, we are on top of the clock, so yeah. But yeah, I don't have anything else to say. I just, I'm just going to ping people in the, or at least go in a slack and say which sections are still need some love here. And we see if the owners react. Okay. Just one thing more about Yana, she just joined like when we are living. I don't know if you got the right schedule. It's Yana. Which schedule? I mean, that the meeting started like one hour ago. She joined just now. I'm not sure if she knows that the meeting started one hour ago. Ah, okay. We have to drop people are joining just now. Yeah. Okay. Thank you everyone. See you next week. Bye bye. Bye bye. Hello. Hello. Okay. So the meeting started like one hour ago. Oh, thanks. We just. Yeah. Yeah. I can check. What do you get the, the meeting from? The official CNCF calendar. The CNCF public events calendar has the meeting schedule there. Yeah. What can you see? Let me see what's at the event exactly says it's serious. But for me, it's at six to six. Ah, that's interesting. Okay. The official calendar was adjusted, but the other meeting was not. So it's okay. The calendar seems to be fine. Yeah. I just opened the calendar and tell me one hour ago. Yeah. I think the, because what I did, because I have to use outlook and Google calendar at the same time, I usually forward the meeting so that they're actually on my calendar. And it seems to not update the meeting when you change them. Oh, that's why. But it's fine. I'm going to try next time. That's good. Okay. Okay. See you. Bye.


You know it's unfortunate once you start seeing statistics, actually about 9 to 10 people die you know on the railway platform or through the because of the railway network on a daily basis and we have got so used to seeing or not even thinking of the people who are dead because 9 to 10 is like the average that goes and this doesn't count number of people injured. If you look at it is actually more people died in Mumbai railways than has died in Kashmir and through the war. Now knowing such statistics I think you know when we talk of the Mumbai spirit we talk of people that you know that we are the think tank the financial center of the city of the country we must think of how not to let this happen and how to minimize the losses or to save lives and that was a starting point of me thinking through this whole initiative that we should do something which will decongest the Russia which will allow people the peace of mind about getting into the train at a time when they feel it's safe enough to jump in as opposed to putting huge pressure that they have to reach office at the 9 30 hour you know time and in all honesty if you think back there's the technology has but so much changed to the system you we can think differently you know job it's possible to actually have a different start time for different kind of businesses so if you think that you know 9 30 and 5 30 is only way to be it's going to be difficult and then you will find that everyone trying to get into the train the same time but if you actually can visualize that 8 to 11 we can stagger the kind of people who you know travel and be congested from that one hour to another three or four hours you will actually find that people can move far more freely it will be a lot people will be a lot more happier so this was the starting point of the initiative in all honesty I hope at least 20 25 percent of the people we can shift out of that core hour to either up earlier in the day or slightly later in the day and even if out of you know if nine and ten is the average even if I can get that average down to seven people eight people a day by the end of the year we would have saved six seven hundred lives and I think that's a good thing to try for even in all honesty even if one life is saved I think this is what the effort that all of us collectively we put together you always imagine it someone else's life and you think that that one person won't be mine but the day it is your person you will feel differently so I think why wait for some tragic thing more to continue happening for us to take action and if all of us really think that we are you know the thing and that we can do things differently we can bring a change we think of us as you know the epicenter of India then we must do something to make things better


Okay, I just got back to my car. I've been in the grocery store. This is actually the first time that I have been at the grocery store during rush hour since my amputation. I've always been like, I don't know, just kind of overwhelmed, but I felt really good today.  Anyways, with that fascinating intro out of the way, something super cute happened while I was there. So as we all know, kids respond a variety of different ways to people who look different than them. And I was using my IWALK over here. I was grabbing some mangoes when I behind my back, this little kid kind of like shrieked, but really concerned, like not scared, not frightened, just really concerned. Daddy, she broke her leg off. Oh my God, just the sweetest thing. And the dad was horrified and tried to shush the kid and like take it away. And I just thought it was so sweet. Like kids are naturally curious, you know? Like I'm not gonna get mad at kids forever being curious about something or even a little bit scared or whatever. A lot of people ask me like how I feel about being stared at. And when it's adults for extended periods of time, it gets a little uncomfortable sometimes, understandably, but when it's kids, I don't know, I just think it's sweet. Like as human beings were curious and he just was very concerned that my leg was missing and thought it was very sad and very concerning that my leg broke off. Poor thing. I hope that his dad properly reassured him that everything was gonna be okay and that, you know what, it happened sometimes. So I was, that kind of made my night. I just thought it was super sweet and super cute and 10 points to that kid for caring about other people's missing body parts. Now they're from the sky.


Everybody forced here ripping 21 22 NT basketball hobby 4 box full case number 26 tiered random teams you can always find the Results of late and sports cards calm. Thanks for joining everybody and good luck. Yeah, we saw that shady It's an awesome card man Day one. Yeah, I think it's either year one or day one Jim and Matt are onto something How like green red See basketball come on logo, man pull a Jerry West. I'm counting it. I want to pull the Jerry West game Brandon Ingram to 99 pelicans base printing plates Celtics Jason Tatum From impeccable triple jersey rookie For the thunder Josh Giddy to 99 nice triple jersey there. That is actually Biography materials Pelicans to 25 Anthony Davis for color game use patch Stays with New Orleans. Make sure you tag this game worn patch So New Orleans Hornets became the pelicans. That is nasty. Congrats on that one rookie Jersey Auto Pacers Chris Duarte to 49 very nice clutch factor Nice hit with the Pacers True RPA Hornets Kai Jones to 99 Hornets doing well Hornets and the old Hornets each hit you Charlotte Hornets this time There you go Charlotte on the RPA rookie Jersey Card Herbert Jones to 99 for the pelicans jumbo rookie material Trey Mann Thunder to 99 Bulls definitive ink Nick Vucevich to 49 nice vooch Whoa, dude check out this hit Cavaliers a gold ink auto Collins sexton two of 10 Is that supposed to be gold either way color match calves all around beautiful card Jonathan Kay on that one. I don't think that's supposed to be gold, but I don't hate it He had the goal that he was like signing like you know what would look better The gold brought his own pen to sign all the autographs How much of a mess of products be guys So upset smeared sharp box to got a James Weisman to 75 for the Warriors 75th anniversary there John Moran printing plate for the Grizzlies from NT from last year Pacers biography materials Paul George to 99 In use Paul George Pacers Jersey Jumbo patch. That's Thomas materials bucks Chris Middleton to 25 Rookie dual patch auto partial spur logo as well as Joshua Primo to 25 Fantastic patches nice Primo Redemption rookie material auto quad warriors Jonathan coming up boom great second box here Go warriors Celtics auto and s cancer or no as freedom. It says here finally change it there It's a 49 and s freedom auto for the Celtics Lakers auto Kazi Russell to 49 Hawks Jersey card John Collins to 99 and a colossal rookie Jersey Scotty Lewis Hornets to 99 Right come on big RPA Raptors Pascal Seacum to 75 printing plate wizards is Ruiachimora from one-on-one Hornets Jersey card Lamello ball to 99 Jersey treasures Game one Lamello Jersey nice one Hornets Cavaliers biography materials LeBron James the 99 Nice one calves Game one LeBron Jersey there redemption Miles McBride colossal material auto that is a nicks rookie there nicks on the McBride and True RPA Hornets again this time. It's James book night. Boom 25 of 99 Big book night Hornets crushing it man. Chun Wei with the Charlotte Hornets pistons Jersey card Jeremy Grant to 99 Clippers Jersey card train man to 99 you know to play to play for the mix Nicks Jersey auto Kenyan Martin to 49 Mavericks Validating marks auto maxi clever to 49 Come on monster hit last box here. Let's see it. Thanks again everybody for joining. Let's get that flawless football filled up for later Just Pat's a nineers left on sale T-Wolves Anthony Edwards to 99 Cool printing plate here some mosaic Jama rants straight fire printing plate Nicks jumbo Jersey RJ Barrett to 99 Wizards three-color patch Jersey treasures Ruby Hachimore to 25 81 of 99 rookie dual Jersey auto Rockets Alperin Shengun my Shengun piston Quad Jersey rookie auto Cade Cunningham Kaboom Monstercade Yeah, map called it congrats to Detroit Pistons Hilton T Nasty Cade Dual Jersey Hornets rookie Kai Jones Nicks Miles McBride rookie jumbo Jersey Colossal I should say it's a 99 Celtics validating marks auto is Peyton Pritchard to 49 a Raptors NBA greats auto Jalen Rose to 49 Raptors Jalen Rose That's gonna do it. Let's go ahead and do a recap. Thanks everybody for joining Football after this for the rest of the group break schedule and personals are full tonight Just Pat's a nine or is on sale for falls football case the end of the schedule tonight Relics Kai Jones miles of pride Ruby Hachimora RJ Barrett Jeremy Grant's Terrence Mann LeBron for the Cavs Lamello Scotty Lewis John Collins Chris Middleton Paul George Pacers Herbert Jones Trey Mann Anthony Davis this goes to the Pelicans is New Orleans stays with New Orleans Josh Giddy Autos now we had Jalen Rose as a raptor Peyton Pritchard Alperin Shengun Maxi Clever Kenyan Martin is a Nick a Nick's redemption colossal material autographs miles with Bride and has freedom Kazi Russell Holland Saxon with that gold ink interesting car there nice one there for the Cavs Nick Busevich Chris Duarte on the clutch back to rookie Jersey Otto nice hit Pacers Redemption Warriors Jonathan Gominga rookie material auto quad It'd be nice when you get that Ryan. What's up, man? Shoe RPA Hornets Kai Jones to 99 and Hornets James Booknite to 99 Grats Hornets Dual patch rookie auto spurs Joshua Primo the nasty patches there And on the back quad Jersey rookie auto pistons Cade Cunningham to 49 Pretty good case. Thanks again everybody for joining. Like I said, we got football coming up next


Hey Psych2goers, welcome back to another video. How do you deal with stress and sadness in your life? According to Daniela Kaufer, associate professor of integrative biology at the University of California, stress plays a very important role in pushing you to optimal levels of alertness and cognitive performance. However, constantly being under high levels of stress is bad for both your body and your mind. These are six signs your psychological well-being is at risk. Number one, worrying a lot all the time. Do you feel like you're on high alert all the time? Are you over worrying about things that you can't control? If you're worrying and fretting more than usual, chances are that your mental health is at risk. Worry that turns into anxiety can interfere with your everyday life. When your mind is under siege with worry and fear, this can affect your personal relationships, life at work, and your motivation as well. Number two, feeling guilty or worthless.  Yelling guilty and worthless are indicative of depression. You might have had very strict parents who had extremely high expectations, or you might have been surrounded by a group of friends who constantly made you feel bad about yourself. Such interactions can heavily affect your mental health and self-esteem. Number three, having difficulty readjusting to home war work life. Have you experienced a traumatic event and can't seem to readjust to your home war work life? Experiences such as the loss of a loved one or natural disasters can have an extremely negative impact on your psychological well-being. According to Jeremy McAllister from Hakomi Experimental Psychotherapy, experiencing traumas moves your energy levels away from their natural baselines to extremes, whether these are high or low. The reason why you have trouble readjusting after a traumatic experience is because your body has become used to these abnormal levels of energy. Number four, pulling away from people.  If you're starting to isolate yourself from others, then your psychological well-being could be at risk. You might be dealing with shame or depression and want to retract from people for a bit to process your thoughts and feelings. Taking time for self-care is perfectly okay. But if you find that you're in isolation too long, try to get back out there and see some of your friends. You might get stuck in a downward spiral if you're by yourself for too long. Number five, substance abuse. Have you recently started or increased your consumption of alcohol or drugs? This can be one of the biggest signs that your psychological well-being is at risk. When you use drugs or alcohol in excess to numb the pain and escape reality, then that is when it becomes a problem. You might think that consuming substances might make you feel better and help you cope with the problems that you're going through. But abusing drugs and alcohol can impact your mental health and it can affect your motivation levels, mood and sense of reality in a negative way. Number six, suicidal thoughts. Have you recently started having suicidal thoughts? This is one of the main signs that your psychological well-being is at risk. Thinking about suicide is a clear indicator that you're most likely having a mental health problem. Whatever the reason for feeling like this, it's very important that you remember that there are many people out there who are willing to help you. You don't need to force yourself to handle this burden alone. Call a suicide hotline or seek help from a mental health professional if you are struggling with thoughts of suicide. Did you relate to any of these signs? Let us know in the comments below. Remember, your psychological well-being is very important and your feelings are valid. Please reach out to a mental health professional, a family member or a friend if you feel that you're possibly struggling with any of the signs listed in this video. Please like and share this video if it helped you and you think it could help someone else too. The studies and references used are listed in the description below. Don't forget to hit the subscribe button for more Psych2Go videos and thanks for watching. We'll see you next time.


I'm John Furrier with theCUBE. We are here in Palo Alto to showcase a brand new relationship and technology partnership and technology showcase with, we're here with Neil Vanjoen, who's the CEO of Netronome. Did I get that right? Almost, look at you say it. And Nick McHugh and his chief scientist and chairman and co-founder of Barefoot Networks. Guys, welcome to the conversation. Obviously a lot going on in the industry. You can't, we're seeing, you know, massive change in the industry. Certainly digital transformation is the buzzword the analysts all use, but really what that means is the entire end-to-end digital space with networks all the way through the applications are completely transforming. Network transformation is not just moving packets around. It's wireless. It's content. It's everything in between that makes it all work. So let's talk about that. And let's talk about what your company is. Neil, talk about your company. What you guys do, Netronome and Nick, same for you for Barefoot, start with you guys. So as Netronome, our core focus lies around smart Knicks and what we mean by that. These are elements that go into the network service, which in the sort of cloud and NIV world gets used for a lot of network services. And that's our area of focus. Barefoot is trying to make switches that were previously fixed function, turning them to something that those who own and operate networks can program them for themselves to customize them or add new features or protocols that they need to support. And Barefoot, you're walking in the park. You don't want to step in any glass and get a cut. And I like that. Love the name of the company, but brings out the real issue of getting this IO world to a Knicks that goes back to the old school mindset of just network cards and servers. But if you take that out on the internet now, that is the IO challenge. In real time, it's certainly a big part of the edge device whether that's a human or device. IoT to mobile, and then moving it across the network. And by the way, there's multiple networks. So is this kind of where you guys are showcasing your capabilities? So fundamentally, you need both sides of the line, if I could put it that way. So we on the server side, and specifically also giving visibility between virtual machines to virtual machines, also called VNFs to VNFs in a service chaining mechanism, which is what a lot of the NFE customers are deploying today. And really as the entire infrastructure upon which these services are delivered, as that moves more into software, and more of it is created by those who own and operate these services for themselves. They either create it, commission it, buy it, download it, and then modify it to best meet their needs. That's true whether it's in the network interface portion, whether it's in the switch. And they've seen it happen in the control plane, and now it's moving down so that they can define all the way down to how packets are processed in the NIC and in the switches. And when they do that, they can then add in their ability to see what's going on in ways that they've never been able to do before. So we really think of as those as providing that programmability and that flexibility down all the way to the way that the packets. And what's the impact? Nick, talk about the impact and take us through it like an example.  And so what is it, what's the impact? And give us an example of what the benefit would be. I mean, what goes on there? Because instrumentation, certainly everyone wants to instrument everything. But what's the practical benefit? I mean, who wins from this and what's the real impact? Well, you know, in they've gone by, if you're a service provider providing services to your customers, then you would typically do this out of vertically integrated pieces of equipment that you get from equipment vendors. It's closed, it's proprietary. They have their own sort of NetFlow, SFlow, whatever the mechanism that they have for measuring what's going on. And you had to learn and live with the constraints of what they had. As this all gets kind of disaggregated and broken apart and that the owner of the infrastructure gets to define the behavior in software, they can now chain together and the modules and the pieces that they need in order to deliver the service. That's great. But now they've lost that proprietary measurement. So now they need to introduce the measurement that they can get greater visibility. This actually has created a tremendous opportunity. And this is what we're demonstrating is if you can come up with a uniform way of doing this so that you can see, for example, the path that every packet takes, the delay that it encounters along the way, the rules that it encounters that determines the path that it gets. If it encounters congestion, who else contributed to that congestion so we know who to go to blame? Then by giving them that flexibility, they can go and debug systems much more quickly and change them and modify them. It's interesting. It's almost like the aspirin, right? You need the headache now is I have good proprietary technology for point measurement and solutions, but yet I need to manage multiple components. There's an add on to what Nick said, which is the whole key point here is the programmability because there's data and then there's information. Gathering lots and lots of telemetry data is easy. The problem is you need to have it at all points, which is Nick's key point, but the programmability allows the DevOps person, in other words, the operational people within the cloud or carrier infrastructure to actually write code that identifies and isolates the data, well, the information rather than the data that they need. So is this customer-based for you guys, the carriers, the service providers? Who's your target audience? Yeah, I think it's service providers who are applying the NFV technologies, in other words, the cloud-like technologies. I always say the real big story here is the cloud technologies rather than just the cloud. Yeah, yeah. And how that's done. And same for you guys. This is its joint same target customer. I don't think there's any disagreement. Well, I want to get drill into the whole aspirin analogy because there's other things that you brought up with the programmability because NFV has been that, saving grace. It's been the holy grail for how many years now. And you're starting to see the tides shifting now towards where NFV is not a silver bullet, so to speak, but it is actually accelerating some of the change. And I always like to ask people, hey, are you an aspirin or are you a vitamin? One guest told me, I'm a steroid. We make things grow faster. I'm like, okay, but in a way, the aspirin solves a problem like immediate headache. So it sounds like a lot of the things that you mentioned, that's an immediate benefit right there on the instrumentation in an open way, multi-component, multi-vendor kind of benefits the proprietary but open. But the point about programmability gives a lot of head room around kind of that vitamin, that steroid piece where it's going to allow for automation, which brings an interesting thing that's customizable automation, meaning you can apply software policy to it. Is that kind of like, can you tease that out? Is that an area that you guys talking about? The first thing that we should mention is probably the new language called P4. I think Nick will be too modest to state that, but I think Nick has been a key player in along with his team and many other people in the definition and the creation of this language, which allows the programmability of all these elements. Yeah, drill down. I mean, teach your own horn here. Let's get into it because what is it and what's the benefit? And what is the real value? What's the upshot of P4? Yeah, the way that hardware that processes packets, whether it's in network interface cards or in switching, the way that that's been defined in the past has been by chip designers. At the time that they define the behavior, they're writing Virolog or VHDL. And as we know, people that design chips don't operate big networks. So they don't really know what capability is to put in. They're good at logic and a vacuum, but not necessarily in real world, right? Yeah. They don't have to insult chip designers. They're great, right? So what we've all wanted to do for some time is to come up with a uniform language, a domain-specific language that allows you to define how packets will be processed in interfaces, in switches, in hypervisor switches inside virtual machine environments in a uniform way so that someone who's proficient in that language can then describe a behavior that can then operate in different parts of the chain services so that they can get the same behavior, a uniform behavior, so that they can see the network-wide, that the service-wide behavior in a uniform way. The P4 language is merely a way to describe that behavior. And then both Netronome and Barefoot, we each have our own compilers for compiling that down to the specific processing element that operates in the interfaces and in the switches. So you're bridging the chip layer with some sort of abstraction layer to give people the ability to do policy programming. So all the heavy lifting stuff in the old network days was configuration management. I mean, all those, I mean, it was like hard stuff and then now you've got dynamic networks that even gets harder. Is this kind of where the problem goes away? And this is where automation is. Exactly, and the key point is the programmability versus configurability. In a configurable environment, you're always trying to pre-guess what your customer is going to try to look at. Guessing's not good in the networking area. It's not good for five nines. In the new world that we endow, the customer actually wants to define exactly what the information is they want to extract, which is your whole question around the rules and so forth. So let me see if I can connect the dots here, just kind of connect this forward. So in the showcase, you guys are going to show this programmability, this kind of efficiency at the layer of bringing instrumentation and then using that information and or data depending on how it's sliced and diced via the policy and programmability. But this becomes cloud-like, right? So when you start moving, thinking about cloud where service providers are under a lot of pressure to go cloud, because over the top right now is booming. You're seeing a huge content and application market that's super ripe for kind of these kinds of services. They need that ability to have the infrastructure be like software. So infrastructure as code is the DevOps term that we talk about in our DevOps world. But that has been more data center kind of language with developers. Is it going the same trajectory in the service provider world because you have networks, I mean they're bigger, higher scale, what are some of those DevOps dynamics in your world? Can you talk about that and share some color on that? I mean, the way in which large service providers are starting to deliver those services is out of something that looks very much like a cloud platform. In fact, it could in fact be exactly the same technology, the same servers, the same switches, same operating systems, a lot of the same techniques. The problem they're trying to solve is slightly different. They're chaining together the means to process a sequence of operations. A little bit like though the cloud operators are moving towards microservices that get chained together. So there's a lot of similarities here and the problems they face are very similar.  It means that we're giving them so much rope to hang themselves. Because everything has now got to be put together in a way that's coming from different sources written and authored by different people with different intent or from different places across the internet. And so being able to see and observe exactly how this is working is even more critical. So I love the rope to hang yourself analogy because a lot of people will end up breaking stuff as Mark Zuckerberg's favorite quote is, move fast, break stuff. And then by the way, when they hit 100 million users and moved, slogan went for move fast, be reliable. So he got on the five nines bandwagon pretty quick. But it's more than just the instrumentation. The key that you're talking about here is that they have to run those networks in really high reliability environments. And so that begs the challenge of, okay, it's not just easiest to throw in a Docker container at something. I mean, that's what people are doing now. Like, hey, I'm going to just use microservices. That's the answer. They still got stuff under the hood, underneath microservices, orchestration challenges. And this kind of looks and feels like the old configuration management problems, but moved up the stack. So is that a concern that in your market as well? So I think that's a very, very good point that you make because the carriers, as you say, tend to be more dependent almost on absolute reliability and very importantly performance. But in other words, they need to know that this is going to be a hundred gigs because that's what they've signed up the SLA with their custom form. It's not going to be almost a hundred gigs because then they're going to end up paying a lot of penalties. Yeah, they can't afford breakage. They're ops dev, not dev ops. Which comes first in their world. Yeah, so the critical point here is that this is where the demo that we're doing which shows the ability to capture all this information at line rate at very high speeds and the switches. So let's talk about this demo you're doing the showcase that you guys are providing and demonstrating to the marketplace. What's the pitch?  What's it proving? So I think that it's good to think about a scenario in which you would need this and then this leads into what the demo would be. Very common in an environment like the VNF kind of environment where something goes wrong, they're trying to figure out very quickly who's to blame, which part of the infrastructure was the problem. Could it be congestion? Could it be a misconfiguration that it was? Everyone pointed finger at the other guy. Two days later, what happened really? Typical way that they do this is they'll bring the people that are responsible for the compute, the networking, and the storage quickly into one room and say go figure it out. The people that are doing the compute, they'll be modifying and changing and customizing, running experiments, isolating the problem. So are the people that are doing storage. They can program their environment. In the past, the networking people had ping and trace rat. That's the same tools that they had 20 years ago. What we're doing is changing that by introducing the means where they can program and configure, run different experiments, run different probes so that they can look and see the things that they need to see. And in the demo in particular, you'll be able to see the packets coming in through a switch, through a NIC, through a couple of VMs, back out through a switch, and then you can look at that packet afterwards and you can ask questions of the packet itself. Something you've never been able to do. It's the ultimate debugger. Basically, it's the ultimate debugger. Go to the packet and say. Programmable debugger. Which path did you take? How long did you wait at each NIC, at each VM, at each switch port as you went through? What are the rules that you followed that led you to be here? And if you encountered some congestion, whose fault was it? Who did you share that queue with so we can go back and apportion the delay? So you get a multiple dimension of path information coming in, not just the standard stove-piped tools. And then everyone compares logs and then there's all these holes in it.  And through the programmability, you can isolate the piece of the information. So the experimentation agile is where I think, is that what you're getting at? You can say, you can really get down and dirty into a duplication environment. Also run these really fast experiments versus kind of in theory or in all kind of work. Exactly, which is what, as Nick said, is exactly what people on the server side and on the storage side have been able to do in the past. Okay, so for people watching that are kind of getting into this and people who aren't, just give me an order of magnitude of the impact and the consequences of not taking this approach vis-a-vis the available today's available techniques. If you wanted to try and figure out who it was that you were sharing a queue with inside an interface or inside a switch, you have no way to do that today or no means to do that. And so if you wanted to be able to say, it's that aggressor flow over there, that malfunctioning service over there, you've got no means to do it. As a consequence, the networking people always get the blame because they can't show that it wasn't them. But if you can say, I can see in this queue there were four flows going through or 4,000 flows and one of them was really badly behaved and it was that one over there and I can tell you exactly why its packets were ending up here. Then you can immediately go in and shut that one down.  Can I get this for my family? I need this for my household. I'm not going to use this for my kids. I mean, I know exactly the bad behavior. I need to prove it. No, but this is what the point is. This is fast. I mean, you're talking speed too, another aspect. What's the speed lag on approach versus taking the old current approach versus this joint approach you guys are taking? What's the, give me an estimate on just ballpark numbers. Well, there's two aspects to the speed. One is the speed at which it's operating. So this is going to be in the demo. It's running at 40 gigabytes per second but this can easily run, for example, in the barefoot switch it'll run at six terabits per second. The interesting thing here is that in this entire environment this measurement capability does not generate a single extra packet. All of it is self-contained in the packets that are already flowing. So there's no latency issues on running this in production. If you want to then change the behavior you need to go and modify what was happening in the neck, modify what was happening in the switch. You can do that in minutes so that you can say. Now the time it takes for a user now to do this, let's go to that time series. What does that look like? So current method is get everyone in the room, do these things, are we talking? I think that today it's just simply not possible. So it's a new capability. So this is a new capability. This is a new capability and exactly as Nick said, it's getting the network to the same level of ability that you always had inside the system. I got to ask you guys as founders of your companies because this is one of those things that's a great success story as entrepreneurs. You got, it's not just a better mousetrap, it's revolutionary in the sense that no one's ever had the capability before. So when you go to events like Mobile World Congress, you're out in the field, are you shaking people like you need me? I need to cut the line and tell you what's going on. I mean, you must have a sense of urgency. Is it resonating with the folks you're talking to? I mean, what are some of the conversations you're having with folks? They must be pretty excited about it. Can you share any anecdotal stories? I mean, we're finding across the industry not only in the service providers, the data center companies, Wall Street, the OEM box vendors, everybody is saying, I need, and have been saying for a long time, I need the ability to probe into the behavior of individual packets and I need whoever is owning and operating the network to be able to customize and change that. They've never been able to do that. The name of the technique that we use is called in-band network telemetry or INT and everybody is asking for it now. Actually, whether it's with the two of us or whether they're asking for it more generally, this is, you'll see this every while. It's a game changer, that's right. Great, all right, awesome. Well, final question is, is that what's the business benefits for them? Because I can imagine you get this nailed down with the property, the ability to test new apps because obviously we're in a wild west environment with a tsunami of apps coming. There's always gonna be some tripwires in new apps, certainly with microservices and APIs. I think the general issues that we're addressing here is absolutely crucial to the successful rollout of NFV infrastructures. In other words, the ability to rapidly change, monitor, and adapt is critical. It goes wider than just this particular demo, but I think these technologies- It's all apps, it's all apps on the service provider. It's effectively the ability to handle all the VNFs. Well, in the old days it was simply network spikes. Tons of traffic coming and now you have apps could throw off anomalies anywhere, right? You'd have no idea what the downstream triggers could be. That's the whole notion of the programmable network, which is critical. Well, guys, any information where people can get some more information on this awesome opportunity? You guys, sites, wanna share quick web addresses and places where people get white papers or information? For the general P4 movement, there's P4.org, P, the number four.org, nice and easy. You'll find lots of information about the programmability that's possible by programming the forwarding plane and what both of us are doing. In-band network telemetry, you'll find descriptions of the P4 programs and white papers describing that. And of course, then the two company websites, Network Home and Barefoot. Right, Nick and Neil, thanks for spending some time sharing the insights and congratulations. New Cape, you'll keep an eye out for it and we'll be talking to you soon. Thanks for coming on. Thank you very much. This is theCUBE here in Palo Alto. I'm John Furrier, thanks for watching.


Unsuccessful Russian generals are dismissed from the army. The British Ministry of Defence believes that new dismissals await Russian top military officers as they are failing to achieve their goals in Ukraine. UK Defence Intelligence states that according to Russian social media, the Russian Defence Ministry has highly likely dismissed Colonel General Rustam Moradov as commander of the Eastern Group of Forces in Ukraine. Moradov took over the Eastern Group of Forces after its disastrous attempts to assault Kiev last year. The Eastern Group of Forces under Moradov has suffered exceptionally heavy casualties in recent months, especially during the ill-conceived offensive on Volodar Donetsk Oblast. The operations attracted intense public criticism from across the spectrum of Russian commentators, including Moradov's own troops. He is the most senior Russian military dismissed of 2023 so far, but more are likely to come as Russia continues to fail to achieve its objectives in Donbas, UK Defence Intelligence noted.


Okay, welcome to Python for Java coders. This is part seven where we look at arrays in Java and In Python they're called lists sort of lists are kind of like array lists They're more like array lists than they are like normal arrays in Java So but so I'll talk about kind of how we do things in Python here And even though I don't really have a I didn't have a beginner lesson on our array list over here I'll talk a little bit about lists and you'll kind of see the these similarities between them. So Anyway, let's get started. So you can see over here again in Java Everything has to be declared as a certain type Python. It doesn't so here. We say scores equals new and three the equivalent of that in Python would be something like this We could put we put null or is it null none. That's right. It's none in job in Python none none None but since they're integers, we could just put zero comma zero comma zero This would actually preserves the exact same result because when we create a An array excuse me with no values. It automatically is assigned 0 0 0 by default because it's an integer type an int type and then here you see where we've got Scores now this part's actually the same score zero equals 85 scores one one equals 90 and scores two Equals 100 and so if I went ahead and actually what's nice like just go ahead and print scores here And let's take a look. I see let's run this to make sure this is still running Let's see what that gets us and I'll go ahead and run this at the same time. They're in two different windows Okay, so we got Something went wrong there. That's just still printing out the old thing Unless I just zoomed up too far. There we go. Okay. No Okay, let me go ahead and reload this copy that and reload it is stuck on my last Stuck on my last Tutorial and as it goes back to this setup, I'll fix that in a minute basically here how I've got 85 90 and 100 so this looks very much so far like What we have in Java, which is nice. It makes the transition a little bit easier But again, there are some significant differences as as you'll see here in a minute And we go ahead and change the text size Too large for that. Okay And I get it back to where it was. All right, so Now one thing though is if I had done this I Hadn't put three zeros in there. I'm gonna get an error. Let's see what happens Okay, so you see where it says list assignment index out of range. So there is no zero here There's no zero element one element or Element two there's absolutely nothing. It's empty Okay, so like an array list what I could have done is I could do this now Dot Add I think it's add. I haven't done this for a while actually Let's try it 90 and I'm probably getting it backwards. Let's see what happens Yep, it's a ad is for Java a pinned is for Python Go ahead and run that and hopefully we'll see run that too There's no add. I know we're waiting. I'm not sure if it's my internet slow or they're slow today It could be a combination of both. Okay, so we got 85 90 So that was basically the same thing as we had was score zero equals 85 And what this does a pen just is just like with an array list Add in Java it adds it to the end could not find class main. Oh It should be main. There we go. That's where we went wrong. I think when I originally did this tutorial I didn't do it and replete. I did it in something else So I just copy the code here. I should have tested that first my apologies Okay, there we go. So this is this is what we want so you can see here. We've got the same scores Let's go ahead and do the printing like we have there now again back to our loops And we're gonna use for I in range And we're starting at zero and we're going to the length of scores Of course minus one it automatically increments colon. We tabbed over four spaces print Score and space And what I'm gonna do is I'm gonna go ahead and use format colon So dot format So I want to use I and then scores I Again, this is just building on everything. We've looked at so far So we should see score 0 85 score 190 score 100. So yeah, same thing same concepts Just done a little bit differently. Okay, and let's take a look here now. We want to calculate the average So I want to go ahead and do that again. We don't need the double. It's again. It's called a float in Python Here we've got camel casing. We're gonna use snake casing average score equals I'm gonna say scores in this case. It's the exact same code basically. I'm just gonna go ahead and copy that It's gonna be lazy That's nice. It's where you can eat that one of those rare cases where you can actually just copy and paste and it works Don't need the semi colon and I'm gonna go ahead and print Average score colon and don't forget the braces dot format average score And hopefully we will get the same result 91.6 repeating Okay, and interestingly it is the exact same There's a few but it looks about the same length. So interesting. Okay. Now. Let's go ahead and move on try a few different things here so In this example, we've we've pre-populated our array with some Data we can do the exact same thing here heights equals 150 160 170 and 180 That's a common on a dot. No semi colon These brackets here these square brackets. They tell you that this is a list And so it's it's just obvious from that that, you know, this is a list type Yeah, so let's go ahead and do the same thing So we say 4i in range Again, we're starting at zero going to the length of heights Incrementing by one because we want to do all of them print heights And just be able to basically just doing the same thing here and again the difference between this example and this example was here We started with an empty list and appended here. We're starting with a pre-populated list Do that And this is exactly the same thing. We just did format I and Heights Let's go ahead and run it make sure it's working Fantastic, I forgot to put a little print statement there. All right moving on Using the for each method. I can do like this for height in heights and I strongly strongly strongly recommend this to my students that any time you make a list That the variable name should be plural Okay, this will help you to write I think easier to maintain an easier to understand code and then when you do something like this It just makes logical sense for each height in heights We can go ahead and print It's go ahead and test that and there we go Okay, moving on Okay, so same thing here We could do something weird got disconnected So average height equals blah blah blah blah Things do I need to do that? Okay, tell me why don't we do this a little bit differently since it's really just a repeat of what we did up there Or I guess I could copy it but what I might want to do is I might want to say total equals zero for height in heights total plus equals height and Then I will say the average height Again, can't snake casing equals total divided by the length of heights So if we got four heights and then we'll go ahead and print average height Brackets and format Average height You can see I'll just you know good good variable naming just makes your code easier to read and to understand Let's see if we get 165 and that is what we wanted and what's nice about this method is if we go ahead and added somebody We added 190 centimeter person and then the average is automatically updated everything is printed out as is so you can see there's kind of a few similarities between how arrays work and How array lists and lists in Python work So I'd say basically over all that lists are a lot more like array lists in Python or in Java So it's probably a bit more of a better comparison, but I just want to point out that there isn't really a difference in Python between lists and Arrays an array list there. It's basically arrays an array list lap wrap up a one But one thing I do want to show you is And you can't do this in in Java I could say I could say I'm just gonna say stuff Say hmm That's a stuff. It's okay. That's not a plural equals zero 2.2 Bob and True So you see here, we've got four different types of things for thing in stuff Print thing Let's see what happens Okay, so you can see how it just went ahead and print them out so one thing that you'll see here in Python is that lists can have multiple different types of Values in whereas in Java particularly in arrays. You don't see that at all again, remember arrays are limited to primitives for the most part and Array lists will allow you to do objects Actually, no our arrays limited to Primitives not to check that one out. I forget now. Anywho, so yeah, that's kind of an interesting one So something to think about okay Moving right along. Hope to see you the next one. Take care


T F N N headline news update Good morning everybody. I'm Tommy O'Brien coming to you live from T F N N Friday morning 9 a.m. Eastern time We got 30 minutes to go until the start of trading and surprise surprise folks We got markets in record territory higher prices across the board S&Ps up 18 points right now You're talking about record territory 43 77 in the S&Ps. We get the NASDAQ 100 We had a 15,000 print overnight just at about 6 a.m. This morning You're up there 15,000 and 15 we've backed off a bit You're still up by about three tenths percent at fourteen thousand nine seventy one the Dow bumping up against all-time highs as well How about getting back? 1200 1300 points from where we were last Friday last Friday folk you bet folks you back it up about a week About a week to almost the 15 minute mark 9 45 a.m. Last Friday morning We were just about to touch 35,000 by Monday morning You were at 33,000 623 but guess what folks? It's Friday and we're right back up right near 35,000 in the Dow The Russell is posited by 15 points trading at 20 209 Bitcoin hanging around the 32,000 mark 32,000 475 after hitting that dicey area of 29,000 2 15 earlier in the week you got crude given back some of the gains But man it had been quite a game this week from 6501 I mean look at crude crude almost looks like the Dow right quite the acceleration and then you get it all back from About 72 bucks down to 65 and we're gonna end the week right near $72 gold contract down a bit 1803 little bit of volatility on gold this morning down to 1789 and we jumped to notes and bonds quite a reversal as well We got the 10-year right now negative by 8 ticks you're talking about a yield of 1.3 percent 1.3 percent on the 10-year where at 134 exactly the third year is negative 28 ticks at 163 20 as we jump over to the volatility index for a market that just continues higher pretty much the same story We get it all back on the VIX as well We're gonna end the week right where we ended last week folks with about a 16 handle We did have a 16 handle in the last half hour of trading. All right on the earnings friend We get some strong numbers by the social media companies Let's put it on a 15 minute and jump over to maybe the biggest winner of the morning snapchat my goodness You're talking about trading up by about $11 almost a 20% acceleration on snapchat shares As they crushed it on their earnings Twitter crushed it as well. They're up about $3. Who did not crush it? Sam Adams Boston beer. They are not delivering in the world of hard seltzer and the market is worried How about trading down about $200 overnight Sam Adams gonna open about 751. We'll get into it all folks. Stay tuned I'm gonna get a little bit start today opening ceremony. Hold on right now