Good day discord internet. Hello discord internet twitch, all of you If you're on the internet and you're listening good day to you Yes, good day. Hello. Hello. We were supposed to have John C. Dvorak today But his internet decided not to show up. And so We had to reschedule, but we'll bring it back. Don't worry We'll be covering this in our net neutrality conversation in just a few minutes. Yes exactly All right Shall we do our show then? I think we shall. All right. Here we go in three two This tenth year of Daily Tech news show is made possible by its listeners Thanks to all of you including Kirk Stephenson this music teacher James C. Smith and Dave Packard on this episode of DTNs foldable PCs are trying to become a thing the FCC wants to swing back to that neutrality and Do we want podcasts in our music apps? Well, too bad. That's what we're doing This is the Daily Tech news for Tuesday September 26th 2023 in Los Angeles. I'm Tom Merritt and from studio secret bunker I'm Sarah Lane And on the show's producer Roger chain Now I know some of you may have heard Say at the end of yesterday's show that John C. Dvorak was gonna be with us And he was until his internet decided to leave and so we will we will try to get John Back, sorry for that John will reschedule in the meantime though. You know what did show up Sarah? What's that Tom? the quick hits See what you did there after a ban on iPhone Twelves in France due to radiation concerns Apple has offered regulators in the country an update to mitigate what was considered an Excessive specific absorption rate earlier this month Apple pledged to accommodate the testing methods used in France and the French digital Digital ministry told Reuters that it is reviewing the update The US Federal Trade Commission and 17 state's attorneys general have filed a joint lawsuit against Amazon via say alleging They violated antitrust laws which reduced competition and raised prices on the seller side Amazon is accused of punishing sellers who offered lower prices elsewhere than Amazon and Pushing sellers to Amazon's fulfillment service and to pay fees for things like advertising on the platform on the consumer side the FTC accuses Amazon of replacing search results with paid ads and Biasing search results to Amazon's own products. We have heard this refrained before in other Amazon news product had David Limp who just announced he was leaving Amazon has been named CEO of Jeff Bezos's blue origin rocket company To the moon the verges Sean Hollister reports that valve announced its shipping steam VR 2.0 in beta in its words quote We see this as the first major step towards our goal of bringing all of what's new on the steam platform into VR Valve is supposedly been working on a VR headset codenamed Deckard It's OS update day Microsoft began rolling out the fall update for the Windows 11 system That's the one that brings you co-pilot the AI powered assistant for Windows among other features Microsoft paints getting some photoshop like features with support for transparency and layers File Explorer gets its modern makeover and Windows 11 now supports past keys Apple also released its Operating system a little earlier than usual Mac OS Sonoma just a week after iOS 17 among the new features there The Mac lock screen looks like an iPhone's with a password field instead of a number pad You can put iPhone widgets on a Mac without having to install the corresponding app and a new game mode prioritizes CPU and GPU resources to optimize gaming and make wireless accessories more responsive Spotify launched a new feature called jam which lets up to 32 users create a combined playlist Jam has technology that you may have seen another other multi-person playlist like blend and duo mix But is designed for real-time collabs as the kids say like cat-eyed birthday party instead of only one Person being that DJ having access to control the music at that social gathering and everyone says actually They have pretty bad taste in music everybody or at least 32 people who are part of the jam can multi-DJ that event I could get messy I've been there Well Let's switch gears talk about foldable screens and we're not talking about mobile devices Although this will play into the conversation we're about to have the LG gram fold is a 17 inch foldable OLED laptop That can be used like a tablet not the first to the party of course There's the Lenovo X1 fold which just launched its second version 16 inch 16 inch version and two other 17 inch foldables The ASUS Zenbook 17 fold OLED and HP's 17 inch Spectre fold Now as with foldable phones the form factor will hurt your wallet. It's expensive Think pad x1 fold is two thousand four hundred ninety nine the Zenbook fold is three thousand four hundred ninety nine The Spectre fold is five thousand dollars LG's entry is right in there now It's only going to be available in South Korea So we have the price in one four point nine nine million one, but that puts it just below four thousand dollars US LG is using its own LG display foldable screen If you are keeping track of displays out there and I know one of you is Samsung and BOE also make foldable laptop and tablet displays They're used in some of these So yeah, that's where we are with the foldable displays And all of these that Tom mentioned offer the ability to dock a Bluetooth keyboard to use like a 12 to 13 inch laptop Using the keyboard separately, but the full-size screen is also an option or using a virtual keyboard when bent into the laptop shape And you can hold it like a book. So you might say alright Are we out of gimmick land? Obviously these are expensive Tom, but are there situations throughout your Regular day where you say gosh, I wish I had one just like foldable phones I want to set aside the expense for the sake of being able to have a discussion because otherwise I think we just end up with too pricey for for most people Is there a reason if let's say the cost of these comes down as they become more popular which often happens would I want a foldable screen and I Was very fascinated with foldable phones and once I got one I got the pixel fold I started to realize like okay. This is what it's good for It's really nice to be able to open it up to that bigger screen sometime but not have to have it that way I Don't know that I've ever felt the same way about a laptop though I'm not sure that I and and my Chromebook I have a Chromebook that I can fold over into a tablet I used to have the surface where you could detach the screen and use it as a tablet never do either of those things So I'm not sure I need a laptop that unfolds into a tablet at which point It seems inconvenient don't you think to just have to like oh I have to snap a Bluetooth keyboard on or or pair it up or use it separately Yeah, I mean, you know again the price is a factor here But putting that aside yet Is this a form factor that I say ah, this would this would help me in you know a B and C Scenarios and I can't really come up with any scenario Now I'm also not a multi-monitor person right now. I'm sitting, you know, I've got my big desktop monitor. It's I don't even think it's that it's 28 inches. I think plenty big, you know, I got windows I can see all sorts of you know things at once But it kind of just makes sense to me to have it all in one place. Now, that's a desktop situation I'm not traveling with the spring at all But if I were to have a laptop the you know, even when I use an iPad Quite often, which is the only tablet that I've ever used with any consistency And I haven't used an iPad regularly for four years now. I was always sort of like Yeah, you can add a Keyboard to it, but then like what's the point of it being a lap or tablet rather and I I get that There are a lot of people who go, uh, it's great It's great for that reason, you know, if you have space issues if you're doing a lot of travel You know, if you like the touchscreen capability, all of that makes a lot of sense to me, but the foldable laptop I Guess I have to go back to price at this point No, I it just isn't something that I it's not something I would say no to right if someone said hey try this out But no, it's not a form factor that I need. It's cool It's about how I feel maybe maybe on the go may and I'm not on the go very often So that's probably why I'm not thinking about it. But what what about so let's pretend we're not ourselves for a second Where we never leave our house or garage And and if you're on the go having the flexibility to make make that screen bigger or smaller Like I could see on an airplane That's usually my go-to for for travel is like, oh, could I watch a movie on this? Well a nice 17 inch screen? Yeah That's that's not bad. I thought I would like watching movies on a on a pixel fold But I don't really watch them more on the unfolded version of the pixel fold Which is seven inches than I would on a like 6.9 inch iPhone. So this this could actually change that I don't know if that justifies the price, but that's the best I got Yeah, I mean I think that you know when you when you You know, we're asking ourselves like is this just a gimmick because it's possible to make this form factor? No, I think there's a lot more to it and somebody out there is going This is a great use case that you're not thinking of and please do email us feedback at daily tech news show com with your thoughts But yeah, I I think if you are on route Regularly and you know, we were talking about that. We were having this conversation about foldable phones Not that long ago of just being able to pack it in When you're not using it in its full capacity Into a you know, a smaller pocket or you know duffel bag or whatever that sometimes Is enough to say yes this now I can do a variety of things with one product that can mimic three Okay, I'm gonna I'm gonna wrap up this this conversation with a plea for feedback I'm gonna give you two folders. There's the folder that I will not respond to which is the people going don't laptops already fold And the people going I hate the foldable idea I will read them. I will appreciate them, but I won't respond to them If you send us the hey I want the foldable screen in my laptop and here's why Definitely going to respond to that and might read those on the show So send those to us feedback at daily tech news show.com I mean, I'll laugh at the ones that say our laptops already foldable every time you send He asked I just won't respond to it. Yeah Uh, us federal communications commission chair. Jessica Rosenwurzel is announcing plans Tuesday to propose Reclassifying broadband internet providers is telecommunication providers aka title two Ah, sarah. It's like greatest hits. Remember this old, uh, tune from the 20 tones In fact, yes a news item. We covered extensively back in the day And apparently we are swinging right back Well, you know all the old fashions come back around, uh, an intro apparently one of them If you're having a hard time keeping track. Well, let me bring you back up to speed FCC chairman tom wheeler under president obama Classified internet providers as telecoms placing them under open internet guidelines Commonly called net neutrality. It's called title two.  You're just delivering the service a version of that was created FCC chair object pi who came in under president trump Rescended that classification and said no no no internet providers are under communications rules title one like cable tv Meaning that open internet guidelines don't apply. They can manage their network However, they want in order to make sure that the packets flow freely. We don't want to restrict them from managing now everybody said When wheeler did it and when pi did it that it would ruin the internet And in neither case did it ruin the internet? But i'll tell you what isn't good is constantly switching what the telecoms and everybody else have to deal with And now rosenwurzel would like to go back to reclassify them again This follows the appointment of anna gomez to the FCC commission That makes the commission a full five member body for the first time in years Meaning you can actually have a three two vote instead of always having a two two tie And the initial vote on this proposal is now going to be scheduled for october 19th Sarah do you enjoy the ping pong of reclassification of the internet every you know five to ten years? Not at all. I mean besides it being a news item that then I talk about uh, no, I I don't think this is good for anybody I know that there are a lot of net neutrality Advocates, uh, certainly a lot of folks in our audience feel pretty strongly about that So I feel like this is a win or at least a a step in the right direction of a win But not if it's just gonna go back to something else, you know in uh, it Depending on the administration in charge going forward I think what we need to do at this point is say all right. Let's let's all just Let's classify and and and end it Yeah, we need a new title that that's my position and I know That making a new law is almost impossible in this day and age Unless it has to do with very, you know limited care categories that everybody agrees on and this is such a political football You're not going to get people to agree But the problem is that First of all the internet is neither of these things. That's why we actually don't seem much Real big effect when they reclassify is that the internet just kind of is like well We're not communications or telecommunications either one were the internet Uh, and so maybe you get a little attitude to push a little one way or another But to properly manage the internet you just keep managing it as the internet if you want to properly regulate it I think you have to create internet regulation The telecommunications regulation was created in the 30s when tele telephony was new and the communications regulation was created in the 70s When cable television was new and I think the 90s is when it really got solidified so you could think about it that way too But we're now in the age of the internet there needs to be a classification that says the internet works like this Here are the rules to say like hey, you can't do this. You can't do that Net neutrality for whatever it means could be part of that Uh, but I think it really does need to just say here's here's the guidelines in which you operate an internet service provider And they're essentially the way isps have been operating and just saying here are the boundaries It shouldn't even be that controversial in on in my opinion anyway I know that uh telcos have their own thoughts about uh this because it can benefit companies But putting all of this aside because I know you've thought about this a lot tom who What is the argument for a non net neutrality future? Uh for uh broadband internet that makes sense Yeah, so usually the argument you get uh from from the isps is that if if net neutrality rules go in place They won't be able to properly manage their networks because there are times when you need to shape traffic in order to keep the internet flowing Turns out when wheelers rules were in place Nobody got sued for proper management of traffic And the argument for net neutrality is if you don't have rules in place for net neutrality The isps will block traffic uh in order to prioritize paid traffic And that means that that certain voices will be disadvantaged Turns out we haven't seen that either because it really doesn't make as much business sense as people fear so When I talk to network people people who work on actual networks at isps and I I I know several of them They all say look we we do need some rules of the road to make sure that everybody's cooperating with each other Maybe some rules to make peering clear and easy and so we don't have to fight each other of it Maybe some pull access rules so everybody can can run networks easier But we really don't fit in either of these categories when you talk to the lobbyists when you talk to the business people At networks, that's when they start saying well We we need these easier rules in order to do traffic shaping and stuff like that The the folks who operate the networks don't say that as much in my experience All right folks, I know a lot of you are android users and we have a show for you Ron Richards and quentley dowell bring you android faithful a podcast devoted exclusively To android news and information you can catch it Tuesdays at 8 p.m. Eastern 5 p.m. Pacific Live right there on the internet Now if net neutrality or not the packets fly to you go to www.androidfaithful.com Google has a reputation for killing its own products. Uh, it's kind of a meme at this point today Certainly does not provide evidence Against that so let's run down. What has happened youtube premium light will go away as of october 25th This was the less expensive version of youtube premium that just removed ads a longer lived offering Basic html gmail will go away in january. So they're giving us a heads up on this This version has been around for more than 10 years Even though gmail back in the day was always like well, you can use it But don't you want the nicer newer one? I don't know some of you might have said no. I like basic Uh, so you got till jan and google podcasts will shut down later in 2024 We don't know exactly when but sometime next year the company is once again moving podcast listeners Along to a new platform and this time it's youtube music Yeah google added podcast support to youtube music app in the u.s. Anyway back in april Uh, they say a migration tool is in the works so that you'll be able to bring all your google podcast shows over to youtube music That a migration tool for google music to bring it over to youtube music that worked fairly well So hopefully this one will too and it will include rss feeds for shows not currently in the youtube music catalog So it'll be open for you to add rss feeds. It won't have to be indexed in youtube for it to work You'll also be able to export an op ml of your podcast feeds from google podcasts If you don't want to go to youtube music and you can take that op ml into any other podcast app that allows you to import Tech crunch points out this leaves apple as the only major platform that has not merged music and podcasts into one app Though apple did announce tuesday that apple music radio shows are now going to be available in the apple podcast app That is different than music and podcasts all together. Those are essentially shows. They could be considered podcasts sarah Are these platforms worth the effort for for podcasters or listeners either one I mean listen so every time I start a new podcast and Daily tech news show aside. This is something that I do here and there In various project, uh, you know capacities and I always kind of say to everybody, okay Here are you know the kind of obvious stuff where the feeds should go Here's where you're probably gonna get your most, uh, you know the majority of your audience But here are some other places that people enjoy podcasts, you know, let's try to service as many people as possible Google podcast has consistently because I get reports monthly reports from google consistently just the lowest numbers You know, so I kind of go. Okay. Well It I don't think it's a service that doesn't work well But I I've never thought that in fact. I think it makes a lot of sense But for whatever reason people just don't think about that as you know a place to get podcasts Maybe some of you say that's the only way that I get podcasts and you know, that's great There just clearly aren't enough of you to the point that the company says let's roll it into music Which brings me to my gripe podcast and music two different things if you want to Reinvent an app call it audio then let's talk But podcasts and music are two different things. Yes You can have a podcast about music. So we're getting into a little venn diagram thing here But they're two different things. It's like I mean, I've always thought that about itunes itunes being about anything besides music has never You know, it never sat well with me. So I I sound a little bit more fired up about this that I really have. I mean do what you want to do universe But it bothers me it does I do I don't think that they're the same and I so I agree with apple in that sense You know every so so often I'll I don't know like accidentally hit the music icon rather than the podcast icon and I immediately I'm like, oh, yeah, I'm in the wrong place. Yeah. Yeah. I meant to do something different I don't know. They're just different things to me Yeah, jpeg 84 points out apple used to have podcasts in itunes to your point about itunes being Oh, it was it made me insane crazy stuff in it But even apple when they changed away from itunes decided to keep podcasts separated from from music Maybe they'll eventually Start doing it the same way as everybody else, but I find it. It's fine I I don't I don't have a problem with it, but I find it confusing I find it harder to keep track of things when the podcasts and the music are combined together I get that in theory You're wanting to listen to something and you listen to podcasts and music in similar situations while you're jogging while you're in the car While you're doing yard work, you know, you got headphones in you're listening to one or the other And that's why you see amazon even putting audiobooks in there along in the same line because that also is something that you You listen to in the same kinds of situations Uh, I just wish That whatever they do on the platform side We would just all have one place to submit rss feeds And it would just be it's it's rss. It's meant for that. It's meant to be universal, right? Why do we have to submit to every okay now? I gotta submit to the youtube music gotta make sure that youtube music has mine When the show is already on youtube and was already on google podcasts and is in spotify and is an i heart radio I just I just think it's annoying that every platform wants to reinvent the wheel or gate keep what's in their system When there is a perfectly reasonable and systematic way and in fact, it's too bad that john Had technical problems today because I know he and adam are big supporters of an open project to index podcast that is right there for everybody to use Yeah, I think This largely You know, google has a marketing problem. Uh, google also sunsets Variety of properties With some regularity that people really like So, you know, you that's a twofer here Um, but just in the greater sense of if let's say spotify. I'm not a spotify user I use apple music, but let's you know call them for the most part pretty similar products Putting podcasts and music together under spotify not the end of the world Just spotify want to break out into two different, you know, platforms. No, of course not but I think you can You can you know, it's it's largely optics here Of you want to listen to something? Well, we've got everything you might need.  You want music Taylor Swift. We've got it all that would be fine. That wouldn't upset me I just don't like when things are put into a music category when they're not music I just thought of something uh youtube has done something I think it's pretty smart with youtube tv and youtube music, which is they're both available in youtube There's three different apps, right? There's youtube music for music There's youtube tv for live tv and then there's youtube for traditional youtube stuff But you can watch youtube tv stuff in youtube you can get youtube music in youtube In fact, when you watched music videos in youtube the stats are merged with your youtube music stuff Why not do that with podcasts have youtube podcast an app for people like us who just want to have podcasts But if you want it, you could still add your podcast in youtube music, you know Like why squish it over there? Why not do what you've already done? And and and make it make it easy so that you can do whatever you want I mean, I'm a youtube tv user. I'm well price hikes aside over the years I'm very very happy with the service I have never once used it inside of youtube Right, and you don't need and and youtube's fine with that. They're like that's only for somebody who really wants Well, yeah, because they're like, you know, yeah, we'll give you a choice do what you want exactly as long as you stay with us somewhere All right, we need to we need to chase chase this heavy topic with some fun. What do we got? Yeah I'd say top of teo, but um if nobody has any hot sauce around Let's go with matel matel Had a quite a year at the box office At least so far now. Yeah now matel is on board It's it's board game rather and it is on board to change the game called Pictionary, Pictionary is a new version called Pictionary versus AI So AI enhanced refresh If you haven't played Pictionary, you know, I you know, tom and I are playing I'm trying to draw something tom's trying to guess what I'm drawing type thing That's that's the uh, the basis of the game a lot of the new Yeah, the new spin is that humans are trying to now see if the AI is smart enough instead of other humans To understand what the humans are drawing and the other humans who might be playing the game Are also trying to predict if That AI will indeed understand the drawing so a little bit of a departure from from regular old Pictionary Uh, the drawing by each participant sent to a smartphone analyzed by matel's proprietary AI Which then tries to guess what you drew whoever else is playing along tries to guess whether or not the AI I can in fact guess what you drew. Maybe you're really good at drawing. Maybe you're not but hey, we're talking about AI, right? So the the the uh, the stakes are a little different Pictionary versus AI releases on october 2nd for $25 and I am in line. That sounds fun to me Yeah, I I actually really like this idea First of all, it took me a minute to be like, well, why wouldn't you just draw really bad? So the AI can't recognize and then I realized the rule was no, you want the AI to guess your drawing It's other people are trying to figure out whether it will or not Uh, where where its quality gets in uh, and for those I know who have questions This is a model created for matel. So it is proprietary to matel. Uh, like sarah said, but it's using google's technology It was trained on actual drawings And when you scan your drawing it is not stored at matel. So you're you're not you're not training it any further You're just playing the game Using something specifically created to recognize fictionary drawings Uh, and and it doesn't have to be the best because that's kind of the fun of like, well, what is it good at and what isn't it? Oh, totally I was trying to think of what it what does this remind me of before The show started I was trying to think of what's that game where you you say something that isn't true And then everyone tries to guess of like, oh, is it really not true? Baldur dash also a fun game a good party game This is not that but there's a little of the person drawing Wants the AI to get it or intentionally doesn't you know for whatever reason and hilarity ensues Hopefully yeah in the video There is one of broccoli That really looks like a tree and the I guess tree and I was like, you know what I probably would have to if I was You know sometimes the robots are you know, it looked like a tree. I think like them. What are you gonna do? Yeah Well, folks you may recall from yesterday's show that I mentioned it's free preview week If you're not a patron, we're letting you get all the fun stuff that the patrons get In your regular feed So you are getting the full extended show just so you can see what it's like stick around for good day internet We're gonna discuss how long should we expect companies to support software updates on phones? We always want it to be longer, but is it forever stick around and find out maybe it is I mean my answer is forever, but reality. Yeah, we'll talk about it in a minute Just a reminder though. You can catch our show. We do the show live Monday through Friday at 4 p.m. Eastern 200 utc You can find out more at daily tech news show comm slash live and we'll be back doing it again tomorrow with scott johnson joining us Talk to you then This show is part of the frog pants network Get more at frog pants dot com Diamond club hopes you have enjoyed this program I enjoyed this program. Well, I don't know about you.  You know if I was proud of anything and someone said, uh, it's called a five I'd be like, oh dear. All right. I mean not the not the best not the worst 50 percent not good But then, you know 75 percent 7.5 would be a c I don't like that either It's our that seems wrong. That's seven 75 percent is a c. I know It's been a while since I mean gosh when I was in school if I got a c I was not gonna have a good day C's were C's were a bad situation Mm-hmm. They were rough seas. They were they were rough seas. I mean Not the I actually didn't didn't I didn't take a b very well Well, no anything that listen a plus is a plus a a minus It's all the same I'm talking about my own household. Yeah, then you get into b's and you go like, um, so what was the problem? My parents are real nice about it, but it was the same way. My parents were like, what happened? Yeah, all right. You gotta be if you got a c it was like, okay We need to do something about this, right? Yeah, it's like you're passing and we want you to be exemplary Um, I don't actually think I ever got a c until I got into college and then I didn't care. Oh my god We didn't have diploma. We didn't have d's In your high elementary school. We had an junior high in high school, but we didn't have them in elementary Oh, yeah elementary. I don't remember even getting we had it When I was like first second and I think third we had eyes Because they didn't want to give kids f's. That was that was demoralizing. What's the eye? Insufficient insufficient and complete. I can't remember Yeah, you didn't want to get an eye and then they went back to f when I was like, I don't know fourth fifth grade interesting Enough parents were like, no We need that red f I think I think it was like it was the 70s and everybody was all like touchy feely Right. It's like, oh, we don't want to give kids an f then the 80s came out and everybody got a hard nose again They're like, yeah toughen up kids You could take an f. It's fine. I actually never understood the reason why there was a d Versus because once my belief was once below a c you're like It was inadequate. You had you know, like why make a distinction between What does d stand for now that I'm thinking of? D was below average No, but what is the average was like you didn't fail, but you you were below average, but it's like a b c d What does d mean? Oh, I think it was just a b c d like in order, right? They don't stand for anything Yeah, well fail should be e because fees fail should be e. They were like, yeah, but it's fail. Let's call it f Yeah, yeah, yeah, I never got an e grade. What was that? Yeah, excellent. I would say give me an e should be um, there were a couple um I I I know colleges are They vary a lot um in how they grade or don't grade stuff But there were a couple these were always electives that I had to take in college, you know that I didn't care about that much And and roger knows this because we went to the same college uh, you could You couldn't do it like last day of class in a semester, but up until like I think it was like the first like 30 percent or maybe even the middle of a class you could kind of go like, you know what this isn't going to go well So instead of getting a grade, I'm going to go with pass fail So passing is like you you passed um, and you got a Fewer I don't know like merits as a result, but you at least didn't get a bad grade Past you got pass fail. You could get the credits But you didn't it didn't help or hurt your gpa It didn't go yeah, that's what it was. Yeah, that's exactly what it was It was basically it just you floated through the class your gpa Didn't get bumped up by the pass But it also didn't get and I think at University of Illinois There was a limit on how many classes you could do pass fail. Yeah, you couldn't just do that for everything I think I I don't remember what class I did that with and I mean I I mean I Laid awake at night, you know Try to Is it gonna make me seem like I didn't try, you know, like this class is not working for me I don't remember what class it was. It may have been one of the like the legal media classes that sometimes were just Not fun. What was that law and media? There's a law and media. Yeah Yeah, I was in that one building where nothing I'm trying to think if I ever did pass fail I might have done a kinesiology class pass fail Hmm because I wanted the credits But I didn't want to you know, I didn't want to like get a b in kinesiology coaching of softball strategies and bring down my gpa so I just I I ended up just dropping classes because what's the point if I'm lucky I would do that also.  I should have done that with this only this only happened I I think it only happened once maybe twice and it it was a class I had to take That I didn't want I didn't want to be there in the first place, but it was part of my major and I had to do it And I think the law class was one of um Uh law classes. I actually like I would probably like very much now, but you know, I was 19 years old Um Something else there was something else I didn't like I don't know Everything else in my major was actually pretty fun College generally is a better experience than high school. I was just uh I was a b student in high school And uh, I was definitely an a student college because I could pick the classes I wanted And I could like all out this teacher and I wanted this time of day. You felt yeah It felt like less of just kind of going through the motions. I have to take I have to take Yeah, I have to take this you know in I And I I mean this is not like me bragging Or I I was just an a student until college Not because things weren't difficult or I didn't have to try. Um, I just Yeah, I mattered more to me and then once I got to college. I was like, but I get a degree No matter what I really grew up And no one cares what I graduate like like what gpa I had except like in Very specific, you know workplace Uh Situations that I might be in in the future. So I just kind of was like, I'll just graduate I had a strong aversion to studying in high school Like I would study for like the test like the day of like, you know, the Like the two break periods you have before like third period That'd be like cramming through the book. Well, I mean I I sometimes joke about this to people about what we all do for a living Is that I say you wake up in the morning and you're cramming for a test That's what you're doing, you know, like, I mean, of course there's, you know Everything that we talked about on today's show there's context.  Yeah. Yeah, that's the cramming part You want to read that out loud like how however it is that you get to that place you do that Like with the with the foldable laptops I had to go open the Lenovo the hp specter and the asus reviews from the verge to Like remind myself what were those again because I want to have that in my mind Or else I'm gonna say something that's not right about them Exactly exactly and you know, you could say well You you could approach the show completely differently and every story you knew about a week ago type thing It's like well, sure we could totally do that But but this is a it's a live show and it's a test cramming thing and I'm with you Roger I did a lot of last-minute cramming because I'm like this is just it's best if it's all in my head right at The last moment because then I'll know it all for the test Hey, Roger, uh, Joe wants the title and if you could give it to him in the chat Um, and we should talk about the the phones too. Um, tell tell us about the the google pixel announcement I will google's pixel phone announcement is expected to happen at an event on october 4th I mean, it's pretty much a sure thing with all the leaks part of the way that we know this is Because of the leaks ahead of the announcement One of those leaks is that the pixel phones will get seven years of updates Which is longer even than apple supports its phones and puts the pixel right there with fair phone at the top of the software update charts so Let's go around the horn here and talk about How many years of updates do we need is seven years sufficient? Should it be more? Is that excessive? Do we need 10 years? Do we need five? I don't know tom. What do you think? Well, okay as a consumer I want it to be as long as possible because I want the luxury to decide when I get rid of my phone not feel like I have to Get rid of my phone Because it's out of support right especially when security updates So up to up till now google was three years of feature updates five years of security updates Apple has been the best at this at pretty much keeping it six to seven years So seven years guaranteed is is longer than apple usually goes But apple doesn't give you a guarantee. It just has a a practice that it usually follows. Yeah apple has some flexibility to do this that google now has because of google doing the socs and all of that but uh If if your apple you can just continue to support it until the software Has outstripped the capabilities of the hardware you can say like you know what we just can't put features on this phone It's too old and I feel like that's reasonable because Yes, some people do keep their phone for 10 years But most people don't most people get to a point where they realize like this is just slow I want I want a more capable phone and I feel like Somewhere past five, but not too far past five Is is the reasonable? The reasonable support window when you consider that if all Phone makers were required by law to support phones for 10 to 15 years It would raise the prices of phones for everybody Because they'd have to be paying developers to develop for phones that very few people had it would be costly So there has to be a point that's reasonably when you go like yeah It's just not worth it for them to keep developing for this phone anymore. Just like it's you know It's your your washer and dryer from the 50s. You're not going to get a warranty on it You know from from the place you bought it. It's too old There's got to be a limit night I feel like that limit can keep getting longer as As hardware becomes more commoditized and as software, you know stops stops Leaps and bounds as this this product category becomes more mature But yeah, I feel like right now it's probably five to seven. I think seven's pretty pretty generous I think I do too. I I am I'm trying to think uh, I mean we're talking about like a washer and dryer It's like I mean these people wash and dry for 30 years, but But yeah, as far as a mobile device is concerned And I'm trying to think of the longest that I went You know, and we you know, we work in tech and we we cover this stuff So I'm not I don't even really consider myself a normal person When it comes to upgrading tech Because sometimes I do it for the purposes of work, but um You know, I've got an iphone 13 pro max Um, I I mentioned last week. I think I'm not upgrading to the 15 because there's nothing wrong with my 13 I got my 13 right before the 14 was announced And I knew I knew what I was doing and I was like, you know, I just need a new phone And I'm not gonna I'm not gonna get all messed up in the you know the the rat race I need the phone that I need and I like it and if I have this phone for another five years Because you know, it's two years old at this point I'm happy If it yeah, if if in five years from now There's some big reason that uh, it will no longer work The way everyone else's phone works. I don't think I'd be mad about it I would think that that's a pretty long time from now I mean, I'm gonna drop it in a toilet way before then anyway Because that's just how life works. So yeah, that would just be my own fault Roger what about you? I think the minimum should be five and I do like seven especially if you purchase a flagship or near flagship model where They're pretty they're they're they're pretty speedy, you know hardware to begin with so You should at least expect to use it for six years Even if you don't use it directly you give it to like a family member Yeah, I should have a life of six years whether it's you or or someone else on the used market The only time I the only time I I actually had to update was a if apps just feel Felt slow on it or b for example when I moved away from the nexus Up to a samsung Is because I wanted the the on the on device encryption where it encrypts all the data But it was so slow on the nexus three Like it just took forever to do and so it's like well I better upgrade because this is this is a security feature that isn't working Well enough uh to to seriously use the phone because I would I was seriously considering turning it off Just to to get things working normally and you know when you're you're you're weighing the options between security and convenience Because your device is too slow. That's usually a telltale sign. You need to upgrade I think too you have to remember with phones that we are still In smartphones anyway in the in the early days and product cycles are much different in early days than they are later You could even go back to you know to the late 1800s And electricity You know there were there were varying ways of delivering electricity and and so You might get a device that worked well with one way and then it turns out they would change electricity to a different way Well, we don't think about that anymore. We don't think about like well Should I get the ac or the dc or you know Is my home electricity going to be compatible? Because we quickly got out of that in the 1800s and haven't thought about it since I feel like with phone service We're kind of there with 2g 3g 4g 5g Where we're still evolving at some point internet connectivity over the wireless will just Be stable it'll just be standard. I don't know when that'll happen But at some point that'll happen And and you won't have to keep upgrading a phone to use the the current standard We won't have controversies when you know the uk announces an end date for 3g support Because some people are still using it and I think that's why when nick with the c says I replace my desktop every 8 to 10 years Why should I allow a phone to be different? It's not that you allow A phone to be different. It's it's that It is different and it isn't as mature as the laptop yet You can replace a laptop every 8 to 10 years now because it's not advancing as fast As phones are phones have a lot of things that we're still working through and coming up with advancements on I mean we're doing you know look look at our foldable conversation Two years ago people would have been like What are you guys talking about? You know things things they happen And and they've hit a plateau in terms of the vast majority of Apps you would need to have working like a web browser some office apps or whatever you can get by With a mid-range or low power device And use that for a long time because if all you're doing is sending email if all you're doing is checking up on You know that there's a plateau of use Where you know sure you could get something faster, but that's if hey I'm a content creator or I'm a big gamer or I'm doing something very specialized. Yeah, you're going to need more More, you know horsepower, but you know, I I'm actually fine with my phone as long as they keep the updates Software updates and security updates on it. I'm you know, I'll keep it as long as it keeps working Well, but at some point you're going to hit another feature like you did with encryption Right where you're like, oh, this phone doesn't support that feature and that that's going to the time between that Is going to get longer as phone technology matures But that kind of stuff still is going to happen.  This is so slow. It can't run all the software that the newest software out there I need to I need to upgrade and then I remember when that slowly became two years And then it became three years and then then it became I don't really think about it I just I replace a laptop When it's, you know, no longer working well anymore like you're talking about wanting to do with your phone uh And that that of times has is stretching out as that product category matures and I feel like We should continue to put pressure on manufacturers to extend the support But I don't I don't know if it's reasonable to expect, you know, 20 years support from a telephone or a smartphone yet Maybe from a telephone. Yeah from a rotary phone. Absolutely, but not from a At a 20 year old Dream I had last Those things were built on last Speaking of rotary phones Never To my knowledge at least as long as I was ever using a phone. We never had one of the Circle phones, you know, where you do the the rotary the rotary Well, but rotary phones They you still call it a rotary phone, don't you when it has the one two three four five six seven eight nine in a block No, that's push button. Let's touch down touch. Oh Okay. All right. So I never actually had a rotary phone that I can think of but I always thought like They were cooler when I was actually hold on. Hold on. I there is an exception If you there were some phones that had the one two three four five buttons, but when you pushed them they went So they were sending the rotary signal So if you had one of those you technically had a rotary If you could do the phone menu with your phone that like, you know press one from this press two Right, right, right. Oh That was a limitation. I just always thought those were because it was Thank you, fred whole styling is what that was called whole styling. Yeah Um, I don't know. I just always think of you know, we always had a phone hanging on the wall in the kitchen I don't know why but it was just a wall 20 foot cord And then there was a phone in my parents bedroom that was you know tabletop Um, but neither of them were the actual rotary phone.  You never had your own phone I had my own phone before cell phones. Yeah, I did I mean when I lived alone, I did not when I lived with my parents I never did I mean like you were my parents got me my own phone line. I think after Too many late night goals from Sarah's friends No chance like we've had it We've had it with you get your own phone The only big advance in our household when I was growing up is we got a cordless phone So you could take it into your room But that was that was as good as we ever got we only ever had one line Most of my childhood it was mounted to the wall. It was a rotary phone Beige rotary phone mounted to the world Always the beige phone and the kitchen Uh-huh, and that was it. That was the only line we had and then well, and you had the cord, you know, I mean you could you could We had to go out of the kitchen and around the corner. Yeah type thing, but uh, I think we went from That to a pulse phone once once AT&T got broken up That sat on the on the little You know a little we had a little phone stand Thing there and then we went from that to cordless and the cordless was like, you know You could walk into the backyard and talk It's so weird that I didn't get a cordless phone until after I got a cell phone Like up until that day on my phone. Oh my gosh. I didn't get a cell phone until I started working at zd tv in 1999 I only had one because which is around when I got it Yeah, yeah, I had one in college, but My dad was you know, I had left home and he was always worried something terribly He was she just needs to be able to get a hold of me. Yeah if she's in an emergency So that was yeah, that was my first motorola Um way back in the day, but uh, yeah, I remember Back in the the you know, uh cordless phone days, you know where some people had them There's a lot of people didn't I remember Like I don't know these are also the days where you have to sit around and wait for someone to call you at home You know if you're expecting to hear I hated that. Didn't you hate that? Yeah, and like like I remember like putting the phone on the counter and I'm like I have to take a shower But like okay, you know and the phone rings, you know, I'm like hi I'm taking a shower, but it like still works and they're like, can you just call me back like? Well, it's not that important, but I'm like, but it works All the little scenarios how'd you understand of all the things free cell phone that was annoying was waiting by the phone like Oh, he's gonna call me back Like what's up? It's interesting waiting waiting by the phone still means something, but it means something Right because waiting by the phone just means like yeah, I have no option I'm waiting for you to call so I have to be by the phone because the phone doesn't move Now it means I am so obsessed I am mentally I am holding my cell phone in my hand waiting for you to call Wherever I am. Oh gosh. I know and I mean It's so funny. It's like I think and we and nobody complained about it But it's like we didn't know what to complain about Because the technology wasn't there.  Yeah, how would she she couldn't? Carry your pigeon or the movie theater where you were and relay a message to you or something Yeah, I mean, you know only if in the most dire of emergencies, but something like that happened But yeah Yeah, I think I think that happened to me Maybe once where they my parents knew I was at a restaurant in greenville I don't know what they needed to tell me.  Thanks But yeah, that was the closest you ever get I remember I had this teacher. This is an uh, probably want me to pick up something at the store on the way home Yeah, just let's get a hold of him before he threads home. Yeah, I remember uh in junior high, uh, you know like seventh eighth grade. Um, I I was Sort of a difficult person in general, uh at that age, but I also had a teacher that I didn't get along with and I remember like there was a pay phone At the school like if you needed to call your parents or I mean unless it was again An emergency where you would go to the principal's office use the pay phone one pay phone And sometimes there was a line like, you know, and you need a quarter and the whole thing And I think I always had like a couple quarters. You know, my parents would say if you really need to get a hold of us, you know Use a pay phone. I remember like I remember always putting a quarter and calling my mom and being like mr. So-and-so You know and she's like at work Like, why are you okay? Yeah, fine. Okay. Bye See you later Take the bus home Very different very different than how life is today I even when I was doing search and rescue training in 2007 They still recommended putting a quarter in your emergency backpack So that if you needed to make a phone call You know in case your cell phone was out of range You could find a pay phone if only the pay phones were things to be found these days I do see them every once in a while and it's like, oh my god I see the I want to use it. I don't I see the little things where they were mounted but I don't actually see the phones I see them often and they're obviously like so Dilapidated that there's no way that google google has a google map of pay phones and it's very sparse I remember using them and I used to wipe them off before I used them Where did I see a pay phone recently where I was like gosh that pay phones in good shape? I bet it even works Oh, okay. So wiki how it says Look at government locations post offices public libraries hospitals high schools and workforce training centers Maybe it's the hospital. Maybe that's where I've seen a pay phone recently although I mean There's a person working at around every corner that could just You could use their phone. I don't know by 2016 the number of pay phones in california had dropped from 100 000 to 27 Still 27 that's still a lot. Yeah, that was seven years ago. So I imagine Imagine it's dropped even farther. I think I think probably so And I don't even know what I would You know, it's I it is few and far between there are certain numbers. I have committed to memory certain family members but I mean any of my friends I can't I mean Under under pressure would not be able to come up with I might know the area code Well, I know the area code for most people But even then no, I don't know anyone's number anymore payphone-project.com keeps track of pay phones across the united states Wow, there's a lot at like companies. There's one at western nails one at hamburger hamlet hamburger hamlet Hamburger hamlet. Why is that something familiar to me? Uh, because it's a delicious. I've been there in the store. I don't know Oh, there's one in Sherman oaks hamburger hamlet. Oh, I've driven by it. That's why I I just like the I like the name Yeah, I looked at a house there in hamburger hamlet In inside the hamlet. Yeah, I wanted to live in the hamlet, but you know what the taxes were a little little high property taxes in hamlet um, we're gonna wrap it up now Again, uh, thanks to everybody who supports the show on patreon. Welcome free previewers. I hope you're enjoying the free preview uh, I want to thank uh, folks interacting faking nose grob like in uh, the the uh, Experiment week post go go in deep there Uh grover team old dune putting a lot of likes on stuff. Good to see you enjoying stuff over there grover Uh, thank you to everybody who supports the show directly at patreon.com dtns Also, thanks to everyone who supports the show on twitch making our video possible We got bits from dan 3413 wild west dan's back for the seventh month. Good to see you wild west dan windmill steve for the 41st month c spawn with 200 bits zoe with bits brian with bits chaz baston for the 41st month Rabbit 41 with some bits. Good to see Everybody Tomorrow is the meta connect conference where we're gonna get some chatbots Yeah, we're gonna get those personas that they were talking about until then. I hope there's just like a really rude one There is there's there's one apparently based on bender from futurama. Oh, I see.


Good afternoon. This is Melissa with thestockswish.com and welcome. Welcome to an upcoming lecture on a 30-minute money-making strategy. So feel free to come to this. My name is Melissa Armo and I own a company called the Stock Swish LLC. If you would like more information, go to my website at www.thestockswish.com. All you have to do is email me if you'd like more information on the upcoming webinar. Just email Melissa at thestockswish.com and if you'd like more information about upcoming classes, email me there as well. You can go to Twitter, Facebook, YouTube, LinkedIn, Pinterest, or Skype and add me to any one of those places. I have a lot of videos on YouTube. You can watch of trades that I've done, market calls, and previous webinars. So the webinar is this Monday. It's coming up a few days away, September 23rd. At 5.30 p.m. Eastern time. It is free. However, you do have to go and register ahead of time. So just go to this link here and click on it and register. The host is onlinetradercentral.com. Fall is a great time to learn to trade the market. There's so much volume and volatility and momentum in the market in the fall. It's a great time to trade. Pretty much from now until the end of the year is a very busy trading season for traders and investors. They all want to be into the market. They want to be participating. And it's a great time, therefore, then, to trade the market and make money. So I want you to ask yourself, do you need a trading strategy that will make you money in the market? Well, the answer is, yes, of course, everyone wants to have a strategy that makes money in the market. And if you don't have one, then you need one. Would you like to learn a way to trade that is both effective and efficient? And what do I mean by that? I mean something where you can actually take trades and make money in a reasonable period of time doing something that works on a consistent basis. Therefore, it is effective and efficient, meaning it doesn't have to take you hours and hours and hours and hours all day to wait to get paid in the trade. Do you desire to trade but don't have a lot of time? Many people are very busy in their lives and they really don't have a whole lot of time to sit in front of a computer and trade all day five days a week. Well, you don't need to do that with the strategy that we're going to be discussing on Monday. So it's really about learning a quality strategy that has detailed knowledge on how to make money trading. This can save you a lot of time in the long run. The golden gap is a specialized strategy which focuses on finding stocks that play out to have momentum moves on the day. These momentum moves pay you and pay you quickly in the morning. Learn how picking the right stock can really benefit you for fast profits by getting in before the momentum move happens. It really doesn't do any good if you get in after the momentum move happens. It has to be before it happens. Use a 26-point rating system to qualify the gap to tell you beforehand that it will have a volatile move on the day to pay you. You need to know what to watch and pick so you can play it for real cash because that's the reason that you're trading in the first place. Real cash booking the money. These moves happen fast in the morning and you don't have to devote a lot of time trading each day to make a great money. And honestly, I love trading in the morning and that's it. That's all that I do. You only need one, one, one, one, one strong strategy to trade for consistent profits. If you want to make money fast and are looking to learn a method to trade, then you don't want to miss this exciting and informative webinar. If you're a busy person, time is very important and really, who's not? Everyone has things to do. Some of those things are fun things. Some of those things are family things. Some of those things are work things. Either way, if you can find a way to make money trading in the market where it doesn't involve a lot of time, who wouldn't want to do it? Of course, you want to learn how to do this. If you want to be financially secure, earning money is important in various different ways, not just your full-time job, but having a part-time activity like investing or trading on the side. All of these things help you to move ahead, move forward in your life and become more financially secure. Learning something that is effective is important because you can waste a lot of time learning different things in the market that are not effective and can't make you any money. This is actually a strategy that can really pay you. After all, that's the reason that you want to trade in the first place. Let's go over this. This was DRI, and you can see here this is a gap. This is a golden gap. It had a move in the morning very quickly that took about 15 minutes. Now, the bigger move went down and could have gone all the way down. You could have been in it until the afternoon. The dream target went in the afternoon. However, if you want to trade and just make nice money very quickly, golden gaps offer fast moves. In this case here, DRI, the entry was here. Stop is over here. You're in the trade and you take it down, boop, and you get a move. And here it broke under the low and moved down. This is about a dollar move here very quickly. And it happens within 15 minutes. Beautiful morning move there. 942 AM was the entry. Price is 47.61. Stop over 47.78. The risk is 17 cents. If you're an advanced trader and can take in this type of risk, you would risk $425. And on 2,500 shares, that means you'd make a buck. It's 2,525. This is a great trade. Why? Because the risk to reward is six times the amount risk made in profit. Ideally, you want to try to get at least three to four hours in the low end in your trades. And good quality trades are many times make more. Some good quality trades make over 10 hours. Here, this is almost six. This is a very solid trade. Boom. That's it. That's your day. One trade, you're done in 15 minutes and make $2,500. This is an effective way to trade and an efficient way to trade where you could take a trade in the morning and be all out into one clean move. Sometimes it takes you 30 minutes. Sometimes it only takes 10. Sometimes it takes five. Sometimes it's 15. Now, if you are a beginner trader, which you certainly could be, and there's nothing wrong with that. Everybody has to start out from somewhere. And I tell people to learn the information. You can take a trade like this and use a lower risk amount. You could only risk $51, which would be the equivalent of 300 shares for this trade with a stop at a $0.17 risk. Get a dollar move and be out and make 300 bucks. The risk to reward is still terrific. It's the exact same risk to reward. And you actually made $51, turned $51 into $300 in 15 minutes. This is an excellent trade. A six-hour trade is an excellent trade. And again, it doesn't have anything to do with the amount of shares you're taking. It has to do with the quality of the golden gap. And it has to do with the quality of your entry and the stock pick you're looking for. Because if you don't find the right stock, you won't get momentum to get paid. And the momentum is what pays you so fast. That's the beautiful thing about momentum. Momentum pays you fast. That's why I love volatility in momentum in the market in trades. Learn how to make money fast. That's the idea. And the interesting thing is stocks. When they want to move and be volatile and move, they do move fast. Stocks move fast when they want to move. If you've never experienced this in your trading, you've got to do it. It's a beautiful thing.   And that's why it's so great to learn how to trade the Golden Gap. So learn how to make money fast. Come to this exciting webinar on Monday because you want to empower yourself. And you don't want to wait. You want to empower yourself today, today to make money in the market. And fall is a great time to trade. It's a beautiful time in the Northeast. Lots of wonderful things about fall. And it's a great time to make money trading in the market. The Golden Gap course is a complete system to use to trade. All the pieces of the puzzle that you need to make money and also effective and efficient. So the class I teach is called the Golden Gap course. It is a full two-day course on how to strategically find, pick, and play stocks that are professional bearish gaps. Retakes are free. The class is online. And if you want to do the class and retake it, you can retake it as many times as you need to after the first time you sign up. And again, the class is online. You can live anywhere in the world and sign up to do the course because it's through an online where you go in and you sign in and you listen to the class and ask questions online. The time of the class is 9 a.m. to 5 p.m. Eastern time, September 28th and 29th, Saturday and Sunday. The class is 24.99 and again, retakes are free. Contact me at Melissa at thestockswish.com if you would like more information. I am also offering a special, a fall special for September. The class wealth manifestation is coming up to in September. The class is September 30th from one to four Eastern time. The cost is 3.99. If you'd like more information, email me at Melissa at thestockswish.com. The special offer for September only for new students is that if you do the class in September on the 28th and the 29th, if you do the golden gap class, you will receive for free the training psychology class, wealth manifestation. So you will actually be getting two classes for the price of one for the month of September. This is an awesome deal. The wealth manifestation class is great. It teaches you everything you need to know to have your brain on right. It is a great, great class to really sink in all the good information that you learn. And it's about time just to get on the right path, the right, beautiful, fabulous, terrific path to make money trading and for success. The future is yours to create. Don't forget that. If you're at a place in your life that you want to make some changes or even if you're trading now and you want to make some changes, if you need a trading strategy that is profitable to make you money in the market, you need to learn the right information and the golden gap course is it. Remember, the future is yours, yours to create. You're the one that has to create your own future by taking the opportunity to learn this great information in the golden gap course to change your trading and change your life. So I will see you at the webinar on Monday. It's Monday, September 23rd, 5.30 Eastern time. All you have to do is go to this link here and register. It is free. I would love to see everyone there. Thank you so much and have a fantastic weekend, everyone.


Welcome back lecture 26. We are actually kind of going to go off the syllabus a little bit today and get a little bit ahead but We have a test coming up. So I think it's probably a good thing that we end up just slightly ahead We've got some web assign questions on chapter 7 pending Let's get through kind of the the meat of 7.5 if we don't get to all the examples Today we don't have to because we have Monday to do this also And then we'll look at some web assigned questions time permitting. All right 7.5 talks about the logistic equation so logistic growth is very similar to Exponential growth or what I guess would be more appropriately called uninhibited Exponential growth early in the picture. So for short values short time runs or small values of T It everything looks pretty Exponential in nature But what we've got later on is some constraints in the problem that cause us to Have some limiting value or some carrying capacity and as we get closer and closer to that the population growth rate Begins to taper off and you can see that it's Flattening out to the point where it's practically zero as you work your way out to the right So we want the differential equation that illustrates that To show that as the population gets closer to L This limiting value that the rate of change of population Gets closer and closer to zero So I think you'll see that in the differential equation and then the task most of the task today is to take that differential equation and Solve it for p So the differential equation for the logistic growth kind of looks Very exponential Initially in fact if we stop there that is the model that gets us P equals P zero times e to the kt, but there's another term and I'm going to change a letter from your book This is actually in the book a lowercase k and they use another capital K down here I'm going to call that L for the limiting value Just to keep the K's and the L's Separate as opposed to a lowercase k in the capital K so the rate of change of population is Directly proportional to the population that certainly enters the picture But this extra term and we're going to look at not in depth like this But we're going to look at a couple of other models that When you look at the additional piece you kind of want to think about what that might mean to the rate of growth of population Well, let's go back to this fact right here if P approaches L What happens to this quantity in parenthesis? Okay, if P and L are practically the same that means numerator denominator the same this is one minus one which is zero So the rate of change of population gets very very close to zero So that's what that term is doing in this particular so it's allowing What we want to happen to actually happen in terms of the description of the population growth rate So it is a separable differential equation. It'll be the Testiest one that we've had yet. So it's going to take several minutes to get to a point where we can solve this for P So let me rewrite it so we've got room to do what we need to do so we would multiply both sides by dt that's pretty common and What divide both sides by? P and L's a number So this is some function of P as well So we want to divide by that also and you can do those both at the same time But I'm just kind of moving one term at a time So I think we've cleared everything out of the right side except for the K and the dt And all the terms that had P that were in a product setting on the right side now are in a quotient setting on the left side Anybody want to tackle this right now? At this stage P is the variable so it'd be like 1 over x dx so we can't do anything with the P value here or the P value here one thing we can do to avoid fractions within fractions is to multiply This fraction by L over L So that leaves us with an L in the numerator in this L in the denominator I'm going to multiply it by the second term to kind of clear the fractions So that'd be L minus P. Is that correct in the second one if we didn't have L's in P's If we had numbers in X's I guarantee you that most of you would know what to do So let's say for L. I'm just writing this off to the side Let's say L is a hundred and instead of P's we had X's and that was the problem that we were facing Prove me right here now. So what would you do with this if you were going to try to integrate it? What would you do? I'll give you a hint prior to integrating it Somebody said it partial fractions okay because we've got a linear term here and a linear term here Right, so we could decompose that into partial fractions if we do that. We'll get a natural log and another natural log Because they both have constant numerators. So that becomes the task at this point in time With this part of the problem. So Eventually we're going to integrate both sides. We're not going to do that until we decompose this into partial fractions L is a number The bottom and make you piece work Okay That's I like the thought because I I mean Those are things that you should say to yourself I don't want to do partial fractions because it takes too much work What if I distributed the P to the L and the P to the minus P Then we'd have a P squared down here. I'm all for it now. Now what? Okay, but okay, let's go so you would let you so all this is good thought stuff You'd let you equal the whole denominator or no Just just P squared. Okay. Well, that's going to be a problem because then you're going to have to accommodate the rest of the denominator somehow But As Katie said you're going to if you let you equal P squared, which is what we would have Then do you would be to P dp? We don't have a P in the numerator So that throws it out. The other thing is that we've got a term that has P in the denominator Which also kind of confounds that process, but those are good thoughts I mean to think is there a way I can avoid this those are those are valid things, but I think we're Missing some terms that we need in certain places and we have extra terms in certain places where we don't want them to be so I don't think that's going to get us anywhere But it's you know if it takes a few seconds to run that process through your mind, and then you throw it aside That's fine. Nothing at all wasted Believe me if we didn't have to do partial fractions on this I Would not propose that we do partial fractions So L's a number you talk about something that is going to look ugly.  So you kind of have to remind yourself that the L's are numbers So we're really dealing with something that looks like this Because now we're going to add some more letters How are we going to add letters? Hey, which is some unknown constant that we're hopefully going to find it actually works out pretty nicely A over P and That's a massive letters right a is a number B is a number L is a number. So the P's are the X's of old What's next in the partial fractions in this times P? So the denominators are now the same so let's equate the numerators BP that all-american gas station. What's BP stand for? British petroleum don't let them fool you. It's not American Just like I saw an interesting ad on TV It was about RBC Bank and then the email or the web presence was RBC USA Bank calm. Well, what's RBC stand for? Royal Bank of Canada. Okay, so don't let them fool you by never identifying what those things are They're not American British petroleum is not American RBC is not American. It's Royal Bank of Canada even though they say Add something USA at the end. I mean, it's not Not that I'm against them, but I mean they never tell you that So there probably is a reason why they never tell you that. All right. Let's distribute everything so What do we do from here Remember the P's are the Variables so we need to put those together, right? So if we factor out a P here Then that would leave what B minus a then we've got a a times L Well, let's equate things left side and right side. How many P's do we have on the left side of the equal sign? Zero we don't have any P's over here. So it must be true that B minus a Is equal to zero how many L's do we have on the left side of the equation? One so it must be true that a is One so that's easy if a is one and B minus a is zero then B is Also one so back to our Decomposition Which is right there? We can take this left side of the equation I told you this would take a couple of minutes more than a couple minutes to get there. You're not going to have to do this by the way, this is not a Testable test worthy type question takes too long, but I I have always tried in my classes and I will continue to try to do this that when we have a Starting point on a formula or function if we've had the background that covers how we get there to our end product I think it's worth class time to show how we get from starting point to the final equation Rather than just say oh, here's this mystery formula, you know trust me You know or trust James Stewart the author so let's if we can do it Which we can and I think it's healthy also to review things like partial fractions off and on You will see most of you in here would be my guess that you will take math 341 which is a full semester course in differential equations You will also use this quite frequently Decomposition into partial fractions in that course many of you will also take a second full course in differential equations Which is math 401 so you will see that use some in math 401 as well So it's not like we can learn this in 241 and it was good while we were in 241 But you know I don't want to clutter my mind with it later. You will see it and use it again All right, so for a we're going to put in one for B. We're going to put in one So the left side of the equation becomes one over P Plus one over L minus P Is that correct where we had L over P times the quantity L minus P. We've now decomposed that into Partial fractions So we should at this point be able to integrate both sides Isn't it easier to integrate sums and differences as opposed to products and quotients? The answer to that is yes, it is So what's the integral of one over P dp? I'm going to do something here that I haven't done and maybe some of you've had a question about this and It didn't seem quite right. I've always dropped the absolute value symbol because We're going to lose it eventually anyway, but let's keep it in this case To a point in the problem where we all agree. It's okay to get rid of it So I'm going to keep it and you'll see we won't have to on other examples Keep this because we're not ever Potentially going to have the natural log of zero or a negative number This one you might want to think through that a little bit so if this is this is the number L's the number. So if this is like a hundred minus X What would be the integral of one over a hundred minus X? Negative because we need a negative one right because we've got a minus X And if that's our you thing the derivative of you would have a negative in it So we'd have to put a negative there compensate with a negative out in front. So there's where that negative is coming from This is probably why I felt like it would be a good problem for us to keep the absolute value because it might seem a little more obvious that this could be negative especially if the Figure started with the population being larger than the limiting value it would settle down to the limiting value So let's keep it possibility of a C over here. We'll roll that to the right side The integral of K integrated with respect to T is KT We'll put a C over that This is typically where I fail to do something in this problem But I'm constantly reminding myself to do this in this problem. It works out a whole lot better We do have the difference of two natural logs What is the difference of two natural logs the same thing as? Right the natural log of their quotient right so If we have the natural log of A minus B We know that is the natural log of A minus the natural log of B, right? So if it's true in that direction and it's an equation it ought to be true in the other direction So if we have the difference of two natural logs, it ought to be the natural log of their quotient. I Don't want this one in the denominator. I want this one in the numerator eventually and you'll see why So let's multiply both sides by negative one It works if you don't do this, but it's not as Easy at the end So the negative term becomes positive and the positive term becomes negative over here That's kind of the reason for doing it and I know negative a constant is still a constant But let's just keep the negative C because we did start with a C and I guess there's a homework problem Or that's an issue too. Hopefully we'll get a chance to look at that So having started with C and we've now negated it So the natural log, excuse me the difference of these two natural logs is the natural log of their quotient Anybody see a reason why you might want the L minus P in the numerator as opposed to the denominator? See an advantage Couldn't we write this as L Over P minus P over P right because we have a sum of difference in the numerator You can't do that if you have a sum of difference in the denominator So that potentially is going to be helpful to us Once we have a natural log, what do we typically do at that point? Okay, exponentiate both sides So e to the natural log of that absolute value quantity is and over here we've got e to the negative kT times e to the negative C e to the e's a number negative C's a number so That becomes a number now. That's that's when we can get rid of the absolute value And in fact, let me just write it down here e To the negative C would be this if I want to get rid of the absolute value Can't I get rid of the absolute value by putting a plus or minus over here? Whichever one's appropriate right if it's negative. I wanted to gate it make it positive. It's positive. I want to leave it alone So we can now drop the absolute value because we're absorbing The fact that if it's negative we wanted to gate it positive we want to leave it alone So we can drop those at this point in time and all that whether it's plus or minus This is a number. This is a number all that can be absorbed into some Unknown number might be positive might be negative So we can carry them for a while. You don't have to carry them you can that that becomes kind of a Dead issue here at the end of the problem, but so let's do that division Which is the reason for negating both sides earlier in the problem. So L over P Minus P over P so that's L over P minus 1 Keep in mind the goal is to solve for P. I don't like where P is in this fraction at this point in time But we're going to be able to work that out real nicely Let's get at least the term that has P in it by itself So we'll add one to both sides So we now have the term that has P in it isolated Is it okay to flip the left side As long as if we've got two things that are equal if we flip the left side, we better Flip the right side. So the right side is really this over one, right? It's a sum so you can always put anything over one especially if we want to flip it So that becomes P over L when we take the reciprocal of the left side the reciprocal of the right side is that and Now multiply both sides by L So there's our final Mathematical model from the original logistic growth equation again not a test question But there are some important things reviewed there that I think are valuable plus we see that it's not some mystery formula So let's take a problem So that's logistic growth So if you see up here in the numerator you see a 500,000 then 500,000 must be the limiting population, okay? So that's pretty easily identifiable Let's take a problem that was actually in the book a little bit earlier This was in a prior this data set was in a problem earlier in chapter 7 But let's take this data and adapt it to Our purposes right here. This is the US population at 10 year intervals in millions and Let's pick some values that we're going to use as data points and then come up with what we think is a reasonable We're doing the problem. We can make up our own numbers So what do you think based on this data for the US population? Come up with a good limiting value for the population of the United States 500 million 600 million Population in 2000 was 275 million Anybody have a have a preference 500 million should be alright. We were determining this So we'll just do everything in millions so we don't have to actually write in 500 million and 275 million So the answer we get when we're done will be in millions So our equation So let's pick a couple of data points that we think will help us and let's predict the population Let's say in the year 2010 So what data points do you want to use and let's try to be a little bit discerning about? Dataset that we want to use to predict Here's what I'm talking about. Let's not use 1930 to 1940 To predict the population in the year 2010. Why not? I know this is a math class But let's put a little historical context on it. That's the depression. Okay, so Population growth rate during that interval Was probably not very large Therefore to use that as a predictor we might get the population in 2010 to be actually less than it is in the year 2000 so All right, so let's say we don't want to use 30 to 40. How about 1950 and 1960 I don't think we should use that data set either. Why not the baby boom in the 50s, right? All the servicemen got home from World War two. They were really happy to see their wives and Soon thereafter we had a population growth. I'm sitting here right now because I was one of those I Was actually an unplanned child My father told me I always kidded him He's passed away now, but I told him that I was the best mistake he ever made He didn't like to hear that but We probably don't want to use 50 and 60 because a similar reason 30 to 40 was a low growth rate 50 to 60 was a very high growth rate So I don't know want to use 80 to 90 90 to 2000 70 to 80 70 to 90, okay, let's do that. So here's our time zero We're starting the clock in our problem. We get to choose when we have a set like this So this becomes our initial population for our problem that we're starting and then we're going to go to 1990 which is time 20 and this will be our population later So our model so far So at time zero population is 203 million Time 20 the population is 250 million and We want to know the population at 2010 And that would be time 40 right 40 years from From our time zero. So we're used to plugging in data points. It's a little bit More cumbersome in this because of the where the variables are but just let your calculator do the ugly work So the population at time zero. Let's plug in t equals zero and the population at time zero So population is 203 So the nice thing about it. We don't know what k is but it doesn't matter because we're multiplying it by zero So it's gone. So this will help us solve for a E to the zero is one. So we just have a one plus a here So how do you want to solve this? Okay, basically cross multiply So 203 times one plus a and 500 times one Subtract 203. I'm going to write this out so we can compare it to something that's in the book Divide both sides by 203 Think about how we got here with the limiting value being 500 million Do you think in all cases that a? Is going to be the limiting value minus the initial population divided by the initial population Yes, it will be now That's something that if you chose to memorize that that could be useful and we avoid what we just did but it's not like it's real cumbersome So that's what a will be all the time. So What is that just? I don't know how much to use as a decimal here.  Okay, let's let's use it 1.46 305 so that's our a value So we now have this much of the equation so we move to our second data point which is 20 years after our time zero The population is 250 million so we put in 20 for T We could cross multiply Let's go ahead and divide by 250 500 divided by 250 not very nicely is to kind of looked into that subtract one from both sides Divide both sides by one point and now that we've got the term that has the variable in it isolated We can take the natural log of both sides natural log of the left side is negative 20k Natural log of the right side we'll push buttons to get that Some point time and then we want to divide both sides By negative 20 so our second data first data point gave us a Pretty common a little bit more work in this case, but pretty common that it gives us that a or b or whatever P0 or y0 sometimes we just plug it in second data point usually gets you the k in the problem and then you Then the only thing you have left is t and you plug in new values of t to kick out new values of population So we have that k is What? 0.0 0.0 Agreement on that we're getting lots of those okay So now our model So k turned out to be a positive number, but in the equation we have the negative of k right So we can throw in a t value t is the only variable on the right side We plugged in L. We kind of estimated limiting value We found a and we found k So if we want t equals 20 Population is whatever then we plug it into this equation Population is what we're looking for And it's basically pushing buttons right it's already solved for p. We don't have to do any algebra Just push the buttons in the right order So this should give us the population on 20 doing 40 we want 40. Sorry if you did 20 by the way We better give what? 250 because we threw that in as a data point so that confirms that that's what I was really trying to do Just confirm the data not really so if we put 40 in like we're supposed to Then we should get the population since our time zero in the problem was 1970 what's it give us? 297 more Zero If you use the whole right so that's millions right so if we're just trying to get an estimate which We're using data to try to predict so I Think that's going to under predict because we're at 2009 and I think I heard last week on the radio Oh, I don't know why these things kind of catch my ear, but I think we're over 300 million already Zero like 316 Yeah, I don't know if it's that high, but I did hear 300 something so I know we're over 300 so it under predicted It's a prediction. Why did it under predict? Well, apparently the growth rate from 1970 to 1990 Is not keeping par with maybe what it was from 1980 To 2000 or maybe just in 1990 to 2000 the population growth rate is more so but it's a prediction All right questions on this All right, let's see if we can diffuse a couple of the Web assign Problems start with number three and I I think these are problems from the book I don't know exactly where they are in the book But what is three it's a differential equation? These easy to He brings to the t plus c Equal zero addition is bad. I don't like addition in a Differential equation, but in this case because we have zero on the right When you kind of add or subtract whatever to move terms to the other side It's nice because there's no other term there, so it becomes the only term on the other side So let's send this term to the other side Now sounded like in the discussion before class that some of you had had success on this and others had not So if you had success on this one What what did you do next? Well, let's talk about something before that. What what are we going to have to do? separate the Z's and the D Z's from the T's and the D T's so if you don't like the t plus z You can change e to that power to a Product right so we're stuck with a negative one out in front, but now we have an e to the t times an e to the z So if you had some issues with this problem, and you didn't go this route I think that makes things separable and there was some something else about a constant that they said Right, I think in the parenthesis. It says in the directions of the problem. It says Keep c negative in the answer, but we know that Plus the c and minus the c they're the same thing cuz c's unknown it could very well be positive very well be negative Do we need to keep going? Anybody want to keep going with this problem? Yes, okay. Tell me when it's to a point where you're feeling more comfortable than than this moment so we'll keep this here and keep this here and Divide by e to the z well if you divide by e to the z that's the same as multiplying by e to the negative z and There's possibility that you could negate both sides I don't know that that's going to be all that helpful, but it might be helpful because if you brought the negative over here Then you've got a negative that you need in the integrand, right? Is that those of you that had success on this problem? Is that something you did? Yes, okay multiply both sides by negative one Now we'll integrate both sides integral the right side is E to the t And we'll put our constant there which I think is again part of the critical part of the Solution is if we end up negating this then Leave it that way now. Let me see If they have a negative c in their answer, maybe they kept the negative over here You didn't multiply both sides by the negative Well, let's keep going with this because it certainly is valid to do and I think there's a good reason to do it What's the integral of e to the negative z? times negative one Integrated with respect to z e to the negative z and Back to the original problem. We had derivative of z With respect to t or in terms of t so it probably be Our what we want is z in terms of t right for our final answer solve for z in terms of t What's going to do that? Natural log of both sides So the natural log of e to the negative z is Negative z the natural log of this entire side It's a natural log of a sum which we can't really simplify right So if you chose to multiply through by a negative You would end up with that apparently that's not the path that the Whoever did the solution manual took So where were we right here? When we multiplied both sides by a negative Let's let's see that we can get another answer which obviously has got to be a hundred percent equivalent to this Chandler, do you have a question? In this well, we have to put absolute value for the natural log Trying to think if we could ever get a negative here with this I Think to be safe. We probably should put it because you've got e to the t Plus c C could be a negative number That could overtake e to the t So there's a possibility of a negative so probably To do that we should put I'd have to think about that some more but that that would to be safe. We probably should do that If we left stuff where it was Which I think is probably the case if they had a negative c What's the integral of the left side? Negative e to the negative z And the right side Negative e to the t plus c So this is probably where the negative c came about by negating everything Now we get a minus c And now take the natural log of both sides and negate both sides And again, probably the safest bet is to put absolute value there, but it sounds like it's accepting it without that so apparently this answer And this answer are Equivalent, but don't think about distribution. We can't do any distribution there with natural logs But the negative are the plus and minus the zane because we can do the natural log Because if c Let's say c is some arbitrary constant c could very well be negative 5 in this particular version Whereas down here in this one c would be 5 still it's an arbitrary constant and it ends up being subtracted here C is a negative number here c is a positive number So I don't remember the other one, but it looks like it's not going to happen today anyway So we still have a little bit more to do with 7.5 and when's the web assigned to Okay, I'll change that to Monday. So if you still have issues we can talk about that on Monday and We'll clear those up and review on Tuesday. Take a test on Wednesday Have a nice weekend


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USS Ashland's medical training team broke out the makeup, props, and costumes for a series of medical training drills during their sea trials period. We want the sailors to understand the seriousness and actually give visuals to what to expect there's casualty right in front of them. So they'll be able to have that fight-liking training type of mentality. With less than 10 medical personnel for a crew of more than 350 sailors, it's important to keep the crew trained on how to respond to casualties. From the most junior sailor to the most senior, we're all responsible for each other and have to ensure each other's safety. This could be your shipmates, could be your friends, could be the person you work for, your superior. You could be the one that determines if they're going to die or live. USS Ashland at sea.