This is the first meeting and open session of the National Academy Study Committee on Costs and Approaches for Municipal Solid Waste Recycling Programs. My name is Don Fullerton. I'm a retired economics professor studying environmental economics and recycling and waste matters in particular. For more information about the committee and the committee's work, please visit the website. Questions can be directed at Andrew Bremer and his email address. I think it's going to be listed there in a second if it's not already. And the other National Academy staff and their contact information can be found on the project webpage. During the next hour, we're going to hear a presentation from the EPA on the study context and goals and other information important to the committee's work. EPA's presentation will be followed by a roundtable discussion and Q&A with our committee. I might note that because of time limitations, that discussion will have to be limited to the committee and the EPA. But other members of the public can submit input and feedback at the project's website or to Andrew Bremer directly at his email. So this discussion is an opportunity to gain a deeper understanding of EPA's goals and what they're looking for in a report and how they might use the committee's eventual recommendations. Committee members may also ask questions by any aspects of the committee's statement or task. We'd like to begin first by asking our provisional committee members to briefly introduce themselves. And we'll start with my committee co-chair, Debbie Reinhardt. Hi, I'm Debbie Reinhardt. I'm a professor of Merita from the University of Central Florida in Orlando. We should go around the room. Sorry, my video keeps going on and off. Sophia, why don't you introduce yourself? I'm Sophia Village-Bouge. I'm a professor of agricultural and resource economics at the University of California at Berkeley. Malik. Hi, everyone. I am Medecon Chaucy. I'm an assistant professor of environmental engineering at Florida Polytech in Lakeland, Florida. Derek. Hi, my name is Derek Kellenberg. I am a professor of economics at the University of Montana. Jeremy. Hello, Jeremy O'Brien is my name. I am director of applied research for SWANA. Mitch, you're not muted, but you may not be back yet. Oh, I'm sorry, Debbie. Did you get a chance to introduce yourself yet? I should have started with you, my co-chair. Yes, I did. Thank you. Okay. Susan. I'm Susan Robinson. I'm retired from the waste and recycling industry doing some part-time consulting work mostly for recycling trade organizations. Tracy. I'm Tracy Horst. I'm with the Choctaw Nation of Oklahoma. I'm the director of environmental compliance and recycling. Fatima. Hi, I'm Fatima Hopso. I'm a plastic physician and circular economy specialist. I work so much through environmental engineering. Becca. Hi, I'm Becca Taylor. I'm an assistant professor in the department of agricultural and consumer economics at the University of Illinois. Hillary. Hi, I'm Hillary Sigmund. I'm a professor of economics at Rutgers University in New Jersey. Marquis. Hi, I'm Marquis McGrath. I'm a professor or a lecturer of public administration and policy at American University. Let's see. Who else is on the committee that I haven't called on? Is Mitch back? I think we got them all. So now we turn it over to the EPA. All right. Well, let me, Lawrence, do we want to put up the slides now or so that you can run them? So let me just introduce myself and my colleague first and then we'll go over the presentation. So I'm Swarupa Ganguli. It's a pleasure to meet most of you. I know there's some familiar faces here with some people that I've worked with in the past, so it's great to see you all. And what my colleague Lawrence, let me just introduce myself really quickly. I'm the lead environmental specialist here at EPA at the Resource Conservation Branch in the Resource Conservation and Sustainability Division. And I also lead the bipartisan infrastructure law grant programs. This particular set of grant programs is going to be very important for our work because it is a very historic grant program. That's where we're going to spend a lot of our time talking about it because those of you who are familiar with this field will know that, you know, this has been the first time we have, the government has invested this kind of money into recycling systems. So we're going to talk a little bit about that and then focus on the economics part. So with that, let me let Lawrence introduce himself and then we'll dive into the presentation. Yeah, hey everyone, my name is Lawrence Doppelt. I'm an economist in the Resource Conservation and Sustainability Division, and I'm one of the primary contacts working with the academies on this project. All right, so let's go. So again, I want to really thank you for your participation. You know, it's a really, really honor to have so many of you from all across the nation from such esteemed institutions working on this topic. And we're going to talk a little bit about the importance of this topic as Lawrence gets into his piece of the presentation. What I'm going to do as I start is going to outline a little bit about EPA's overarching initiatives, why we are interested in this particular topic, the congressional and policy drivers that have been underlying our work for the past, I would say about three years, the challenges to the US recycling system, which some of you may be familiar with, those of you who've worked with us on the national recycling strategy. And then we're going to touch a lot on the bipartisan infrastructure law to explain how that has really, really changed the dynamics of what is going on with recycling and given it that push that we desperately have needed for so many years. So then we're going to dive into this collaborative study with Nasem, the legislative scope of the study, some of the background information, and then some headline questions that we thought would help spur the discussion. Because really what we want to do is not hear from me, but really hear from you. So that's going to be the focus of this particular session. So next slide. So before we start into this, some of this may be familiar to you, if it is apologize for the repetition, but I love going over this every time I talk, just because it is so historic. 2020 is when our collective lives and recycling changed with the Save Our Seas Act. The Save Our Seas Act provided the authority for grants report and a strategy for post-consumer materials management. At the same time, this is a little bit out of order. We also released draft plastics strategy for plastic pollution in 2023, but back to, again, 2020, what happened was we, in November of 21, about a year after the Save Our Seas Act was passed. And I will say when they passed the Save Our Seas Act, and this is a little bit of a nuance that comes, you know, being in the government, it gave us the authority, but it didn't give us any money. So we said, okay, this is great, but is this actually going to come with any money? So we waited for a year patiently. In 2021, we released the national recycling strategy. So some of you may, you know, a lot of you are probably familiar with it. We released it as a part one of a series of building a circular economy. The reason we said part one of a series is because we really, really wanted to focus on recycling. My particular branch, the one Lawrence and I work on, our focus is on the bread and butter recycling system, MSW recycling, and, you know, we'll talk about really what that means in terms of materials. That'll be very, very important for your analysis because a lot of the economic analysis is going to be highly dependent on the material streams. So again, back to 2023, we released two other strategies which are still in draft, the national strategies to prevent plastic pollution, and the national draft strategy for food loss and waste. Now I'll just caveat this. So these are very three distinct things, you know, there's MSW, which was the focus of the recycling strategy. There's plastics, which are included in MSW, but can be much broader. And then there's food loss and waste, which also is included in MSW is much broader, can be much broader. Again, these are all going to be very important as you start your analysis to understand what is the scope of the materials. So getting back to one of my favorite laws, the bipartisan infrastructure law. The reason we love this one, it was also called by the way the longer name for it is the Infrastructure Investment and Jobs Act. We in the government, we just call it bipartisan infrastructure law to sort of highlight its bipartisan nature because it was passed by both houses of the Congress, but also because this is what funded us, actually gave us the funding authority for our grants program. So again, Save Our Seas gave us the statutory authority, Bill gave us the actual funding. How much? You may ask. So what it gave us was 275 million for the solid waste infrastructure for recycling. We call it Swiffer for short. I love that acronym because it's easy to remember. That particular program is what we call a no-year funding. Again, there's a nuance to this. A no-year means that it's not necessarily based on appropriation. So even though we get funded every year, it's not, it's a non-appropriation based funding. The other thing that's a very important point to note, the Swiffer program was funded under Save Our Seas as the statutory authority. So even though it was, the money was given under Bill, it was given the statutory authority under Save Our Seas, which is a permanent authority. That is very, very, very significant because a permanent authority means it's possible we might get funded. Again, after those five years possible, we're very optimistic that because of the statutory authority. The next one, the Rio, the recycling education and grant program, it's technically in the congressional language called the consumer recycling education and grant program, but we at EPA are just calling it recycling education and grant program. This was 75 million dollars to support recycling education systems. Some of you have may have seen the RFAs that came out last year and the selections that were made. What I will say for that, again, the nuance here is that was not under Save Our Seas, so there was not the permanent statutory authority under Rio. And then again, there's been 25 million dollars to fund a battery recycling program. That's not under my particular branch, so if there's more information on it, I'd be happy to get it to you. But for the purposes of our study, I really want to highlight Swiffer and Rio. Swiffer because it's infrastructure, because it's state planning, we'll get into that a little bit. And then Rio because it gives some of those softer skills, the education outreach, which makes recycling a very interesting study because it's both an economic issue, but it's also a consumer behavior issue. And Lawrence will talk a little bit about why that is the case and why that's going to be so important to our study. Then there's more to come. There's a recycling measurement guide that we're working on that will help give some guidelines to states on how to measure recycling. Again, that's going to be very important from an economic point of view. There's also a map of the U.S. infrastructure. Sorry, the map was already released. There's also going to be a study on the amount of funding that's going to be needed to sort of galvanize U.S. recycling infrastructure. That was a study that was required by us, again, by Congress, by appropriations. We are in the middle of finalizing that study and sending it to OMB. And there are other pieces of legislation that we follow. Just today, I heard, this was fresh out the press, that both the Recycling and Composting Act and the Recycling Infrastructure Act, two pieces of legislation that we have been following just past the Senate have gone back to the House. So those will also provide one of them, actually the Recycling Infrastructure Act is another grant program that will provide money to rural recycling and the Recycling and Compost Act will provide money for data collection and for national composting study. I mentioned those because we've been tracking them for a long time. They were introduced about a year ago. We didn't know where they were going. And just today, the fact that they passed the Senate gave us some optimism about those two pieces of legislation. So next slide, please. So again, you all, those of you who are familiar with Recycling and who helped us with the National Recycling Study, the strategy, you may be familiar with some of these challenges. And again, the study really focused the National Recycling Strategy really focused on MSW Recycling. And I think that's a theme that I want to continue to emphasize is how different that is from other types of recycling. So MSW Recycling, you know, the way we look at it and the way the National Recycling Strategy, I would highly recommend those of you have not read it to read that because that's kind of our foundational work, really looks at what are most of the things that go through the MRF.  That's, you know, Lawrence and I were talking about that. And I think that is one of the reasons why that particular set of recyclables is so important. And these are the challenges. And they're fairly basic challenging. You know, first is the confusion on what can be, what materials can be recycled. And that's again, getting back to why I was really happy that Congress did give us money for recycling education and outreach, because that particular grant program really targets consumers, because as again, you know, sneak peek into what Lawrence will talk about. And what we're talking about, the conundrum we face with recycling from a supply and demand point of view, is the supply is based on consumers that are basically doing it for free. So in order to do that, if they're confused, you are going to have a real problem with the supply. And that is really one of the basic questions that issues that we face all the time here at EPA when our constituents tell us, I'm really confused at what is, should go into the recycling system. The other thing, yeah, and I think this is good too. So we, what do we do about that? We promote education and outreach. And that is where some of those soft, you know, education behavioral changes issues come in. The other is outdated and recycling infrastructure. Again, none of this is new. But that is one of the reasons why the funding for this recycling infrastructure and improvement has been so historic. And for those of you who followed our community infrastructure grants program, we announced them in November, we announced 25 awards, again, historic amounts of investment to the country to make those awards. We also funded 59 tribal nations, also to fund infrastructure improvements. So both of those, we hope some of those problems will be solved by helping with these infrastructure fundings that we're going to be doing. Reduce market for recycled materials. This is somewhere where I hate to say this, but where EPA doesn't really have a lot of control, even though people think we can do a lot, this is where we really, really have to depend on both sort of the nonprofit groups that track this particular issue, but also the NGOs, the MRFs, and the end markets who are actually in are on the demand side. So we track this information. You know, Lawrence will talk a little bit. We can mention a map that we put out, but this is where the data is limited and where we really have a lot of struggle. So I'd love to find out a way to get put a spotlight on this to how to better get this information. And this, you will find that as we, you know, back to point two, as we fund our grants program, we are going to find that the markets, how the, if these grants programs work, which I hope they will, and optimistic they will, how they will go into the end markets, how they will be sold to those end markets, you know, given everything that's happened with the international export bands that took place about three years ago. And then finally, the lack of consistency in measuring recycling system performance. This has been a siren song for many, many years. Those of you that have been in the field. And this has been a tough nut to crack, mainly because EPA really doesn't have the authority under RICRA to mandate recycling. All we can do is set some broad standards, but then it's really up to the states on how they follow the standard. So the recycling measurement guide that I mentioned earlier, we are, that's going to be a refresh of the recycling measurement guide that EPA put out about 30 years ago. We're not changing a lot of things. We're going to put it out for comment, but we hope that at least getting, giving some guidelines out there without sort of the regulatory and statutory authority will give our states and our counties some uniform ways to report on recycling. And that can be really as simple as, hey, the recycling numerator includes the following materials, and it does not include the following materials. And, you know, let's just even something that simple would be very, very helpful to calculate a national recycling rate, which we have not been able to do from the bottom up, from the states, because we've had this inconsistency. Next slide. So this slide is something that kind of we have put to kind of overlay what I just talked about earlier. The objectives, again, of the national recycling strategy to address the problems I built on are again, improve the markets for recycling committee commodities, increase collection, reduce contamination, enhanced policies, and standardized measurement. Now that is a huge ask and it is not just the EPA that's going to do that is a ask to the entire recycling industry. We are all in this together. And this is something that it's going to be a combination of the government of the nonprofit sector of the end markets of everyone to to help achieve these goals. Now, on the, I think it's my left hand side, is really the bipartisan infrastructure law that I just described. We overlaid this to just so you can understand how these all fit in. Really, the recycling strategy is kind of our umbrella and the subsequent strategies will be our umbrella in how we implement the bipartisan infrastructure law program. In effect, they give the vision behind the structure and Congress basically said, EPA, we want you to do this. We want you to create the vision and then we want you to implement it. And it turned out that we were already going to do the national recycling strategy anyway. So just the timing was really, really coincidental because the day we put out the strategy was the same day the bipartisan infrastructure law came out. So as I mentioned that now in the hopper are also what I call the more difficult materials, the non-murph materials, the ones that aren't necessarily going to have the easiest and cleanest economic markets. So, you know, food waste and organics, critical minerals and electronics, built environment and textiles. These are all issues that are a little bit harder to probably understand mainly because they don't have the murph-based infrastructure that the commonly recycled commodities do. So we are really going to have to put our heads around how to put these strategies forward. Again, the food and the plastics have already come out in draft. The other three are still in the works for subsequent years. The textile is one that we may personally take in the next year. The textile has some very interesting issues. Again, non-murph, they don't go through the murph system. So it's going to be a little bit more difficult to understand from an economics point of view. Next slide. And now before I hand it to Lawrence, I just, this is just sort of a schematic for how our SWIFR and our Rio programs are structured. Again, Congress gave us a fair amount of leeway to design these programs and we designed it with all our constituents in mind. So the grants for the communities really goes to the local governments or as in congressional parlance, it was called political subdivisions. So it could be anything from villages to councils to barrios all over the US and Puerto Rico. The grants for states and territories goes to 56 states and territories. The nuance here again for the states, the grants are mostly for planning and for data and for policy and for the territories because the territories are in a different state. The territories grants are for infrastructure, similar to the community's grants. And then the final set of grants are for tribes at Interest Tribals Consortia. Those two are mostly going to be for planning, but also for infrastructure. So except for the states, the 50 states, which are really focusing on planning and data collection, all the rest of the grants are going to be for infrastructure. So we really did try to keep with Congress's vision for getting as much of this money out to stimulate the infrastructure and recycling. And then the Rio grant, as I talked about, separate funding stream, not under SAVRCs, focuses on consumer behavior. So two different funding streams, two different grant programs. And out of these, I want to say the grants to the states and territories have been awarded. They are in implementation mode. The grants for communities, the tribes and for the Rio have been selected and they are in the process of being awarded. I think for communities, every day I get a new number. I think three have been awarded. So we are really enthusiastic about trying to get them awarded and over to our constituents as soon as possible. And with that, I think Lawrence, then you are going next to talk about some of... Lawrence is going to drill down into the mechanics of these programs and then go into some of the questions that we are going to ask. So thank you. Yeah, thank you. So I will pick up for a super left off. I think we have been talking a lot about the grants and these national policies and programs. But I think this really helps inform the study that we are looking to do with the national academies because recycling activities happen at the local level. It is the municipalities, it is the tribes and sometimes the states that implement these programs. It is not really from the national level. We provide guidance but it is really the municipal programs that are implementing these activities. So it is good to look at these entities requested funding from us and these are the sorts of things that they want to use the money for. These are kind of like their top line, high priority activities as they relate to recycling that they want to spend this money on. So for this first one, the infrastructure grants for communities are the political subdivisions. Some of the activities that these are eligible that are applicable are like purchasing a new fleet of recycling vehicles for curbside pickup, construction of drop off stations, construction of composting facilities and also updating their management plans or their waste characterization studies. And so 76% of the funding for the communities will also benefit disadvantaged communities and the LH20s really any sort of like local government, city, a county, a township, a village, they really just had to provide some sort of proper legal documentation that they're considered a political subdivision of their state. And so these are really the largest EPA investment in recycling infrastructure over the last 30 years.  We're trying to meet Congress's goal to create a stronger and more resilient recycling system. But there are other objectives that go beyond recycling and waste management. So things like reducing greenhouse gas emissions, keeping those materials out of the landfill, creating jobs and strengthening supply chains. And this is just a graphic showing like the distribution of the projects that are happening on the local level. So you can see a lot of composting and a lot of turf equipment and drop off transfer stations. So really the kind of poor MSW materials along with composting and some reuse. And then things not as popular anaerobic digestion and construction demolition. And just to show where this is kind of being distributed across the country, there's at least one grant per region. This is also available on the website. If you go to ebay.gov, you can see a full list of all of these grantees. So for the states and territories, as Swerve mentioned, this is for every state, the District of Columbia and five territories. They all opted into this program. This is a non-competitive program meaning that they didn't need to compete to receive the funding. All they needed to do was express formal interest and they would receive funds. And every single one who was eligible did opt in. And I think that this fact that everyone opted in really demonstrates that there's a real need for recycling funds beyond just the physical infrastructure and equipment. A lot of states and local governments really struggle with the planning aspect and having enough data to really understand whether their recycling programs are being effective. So these things like planning to advance their post-consumer materials management, collecting data, and supporting the state implementation of those plans are really important on the state level. Every state, D.C., and the territories will receive between $370,000 and $760,000 on their own to help and reach these goals. And then for the tribes and intertribal consortia, this is almost like a mix, almost like a combination. The tribes intertribal consortia can use the money to develop or update plans, implement their data collection efforts, or they can use it for infrastructure and equipment to expand their materials management infrastructure, demonstrate an increase in the recycling rate of the quality of materials collected. This one, I think Sorpa mentioned, but 59 total awards, about $40 million total for this grant program, with again at least one per EPA region. And 100% of the funding will benefit disadvantaged communities. And I think one kind of unique feature of this funding opportunity is that it allows for the purchase of much-needed equipment and provides sufficient funding to meet this goal, which is not really found in many EPA or other federal agency grants for tribes in particular. And this is the distribution. It kind of correlates with where a lot of the tribes are located in the United States, but again at least one per region. And then the last one is the Recycling Education Outreach Grants. This is kind of the other side of recycling, not just the infrastructure and equipment and planning, but making sure that the people who are going to recycle and who we want to recycle understand how the system works and what can and cannot be recycled in this current recycling system. And so the projects must, as you can see, inform the public about recycling programs, provide information about materials, and help increase collection rates and decrease contamination. This one, pretty much any sort of entity is eligible. States, local governments, tribes, non-profit organizations. And then we have just a couple of the initiatives here like Justice 40. At least 40% of the funding will go to projects benefiting disadvantaged communities. And at least 20% will go to projects that serve low income rural or Native American communities. And this is the distribution of the Rio Grants that are being awarded. Again, you can find this online. So just to summarize, I won't read through all this, but I just want to note that this was a Montague mental team effort from EPA to really undertake all these activities over the past year. You know, these are our current initiatives and activities that EPA is undergoing right now. And it has required a huge mobilization of staff across the Office of Resource Conservation Recovery, other offices who have donated their time to help us, staff from all the regions, 100 volunteers and more to help review all of these applications. There were over 750 reviews and a lot of applications that came in. And so it's really exciting for us. And I do think that it kind of plays a role into what we're about to talk about, which is this study in particular. And so I'd like to go into a little bit of background information on this study, considering what we've been talking about so far, and then go into like the actual requests and questions that we would like to have answered for this study with NAS. So let's see. Going into the study itself, I'm sure many of you have already seen the legislative scope. This is what Congress asked us to do. It's what kind of started this contract or this collaboration with NAS. And so the background information that I really want to share here is that there's some context that we need for this study. Generally, we know that there are some benefits to recycling. These are pretty fairly well documented in research and literature. It creates jobs, reduces GHT emissions, but there is really a lack of recycling programs across the country. Not every city has a municipal recycling program. And this could be due to a variety of reasons. There might be just no funding or capital. There's no political will to implement a recycling program. There may be insufficient resources to ascertain the cost-benefit trade-off for your particular community. And then there are some factors like just the opportunity cost of recycling is not worth the opportunity cost of land-filling materials. And there's no clear economic incentives for individuals to recycle. And so EPA and Congress have really made efforts over the last several years as we've been talking about. But despite that, there is still a lack of understanding or perhaps a general misunderstanding of the real costs and benefits of recycling. And as you can see here, I think a lot of people the laypeople or a layperson sees recycling as just a pro-environmental do-good activity. I just want to recycle because I know it's good for the environment. But really, it is a highly localized business activity. Recycled materials are bought and sold as commodities in a market for remanufacturing products. And almost everyone is a player in this market. People like myself, just as an individual, I recycle. And I'm providing recycled materials to the market. Businesses who are trying to remanufacture goods are purchasing those materials on a market. And so there have been several national level efforts to better understand these impacts. But we really need better information on what happens at the local level. This is really where everything is actually happening. And so we do want a better understanding of the costs and benefits of these local recycling programs. And so this leads me to kind of our top line, headline, like questions and intended outputs of this study. And the big one is, what are the true costs of recycling? Of course, there are programmatic costs to implementing a recycling program. You've got to purchase collection trucks. You have to operate MRFs. You have to have drop-off in community centers, staffing. But there are also economic costs that, one, don't seem to get maybe as much research, or two, they might just be harder for entities to really measure and fully understand, despite its massive role in administering these programs. And so economic costs, what we're thinking of are things like the opportunity costs of recycling versus land filling, maybe tax revenues on energy captured through landfill gas programs, landfill tipping fees, those playing to those opportunity costs, the supply, demand, and price dynamics of recycled commodities, externalities, such as GHG emissions that are generated from recycling or a household's willingness to pay for recycling services. And I kind of have a quick one out later. But for me, as an individual, there's really no economic incentive for me to recycle the costs to throw away like empty soda can in the trash can is not any different than putting it in the recycling bin. So are there any sort of economic incentives to motivate me as a consumer to recycle? And how do these costs and policies differ across city, county, state, and tribal governments? Of course, the needs will be different in urban, rural, and tribal areas. Some policies that make sense, economic sense for like a dense city just won't be economically sound for a rural community or a tribal community. And the same thing goes for material types. So in some instances, recycling might just not be the best solution at all. And that is something that is okay, but we need to understand why that's the case. So things, in a sort of mention earlier, like textiles and plastics, four through seven, maybe recycling in the way that we see it with a MRF is just not the best way to do that. And maybe city shouldn't invest resources and time and money into trying to kind of fit that in when that might just not be the best solution. And so we're really trying to look at the economic components of recycling. Is recycling itself inherently an economic activity? And how do things like incentives play a role? Taxes and other sources of funding can help pay for recycling programs. But at the end of the day, we do want to know, is recycling inherently an economic activity? We think it is. But how else can we talk about that? And so I know we're kind of getting close on time here. So if we do have just some questions, we can talk about, talk about this in the discussion, but I can end that there. Yeah. So Lawrence, thank you so much. I think we, Andrew, I can hand it over to you because I know the committee wants to have the discussion, but maybe with the headline questions, we can start the discussion portion. Thank you. Yeah. Thank you very much. It's Debbie Reinhart, one of the co-chairs of the committee. Yes, our committee has lots of questions and some of them are very interesting. Some of them have been answered, I think, from this presentation. So thank you so very much for that. So I guess what we'll do is allow committee members to raise hands and we will, I'll call on you.  So it isn't my understanding, I mean, that if a material cannot go through a MRF, that we're really MRF-centered centered here, that if it can't go to a MRF, you don't really want to have us spending time on it. Is that the takeaway? Well, so again, we, like our branch, we focus on municipal solid waste and MSW generally goes through the MRF. Not all of it. Things like text files are part of MSW. I wouldn't say that it's not worth doing. It's just a different pathway than what we might traditionally envision recycling is. So for, we call these like the low hanging fruit, like the metals and the glass, you know, those things we know they can be recycled. We know that like the technology exists for those and that they work through MRFs. And so for others, like those plastics 4 through 7 and textiles, we just don't know if MRFs are the best pathway for them. And if they're not, that's okay. We shouldn't spend resources and money and time on trying to build like a textile MRF if that's just not the best pathway or for processing plastics 4 through 7, that might just not be the best. And we'd like to look at different options for those. Yeah. And let me add, I think this is a really, really important point that we would like you to look at because it's not so much the MRF. It's the end market because if you're going to look at recycling as an economic activity. So, you know, we're going to take off our recycling hats and put on our economic hats. What is the end product and what is the value? Is there a value to that end product in the marketplace? One of the challenges we've had with recycling is because of the China, you know, the international export plans, I should say, we didn't really have a good sense until 3 or 4 years ago what the price of that end product was because we were exporting it. Now that we are not doing that, what value does that end product have in the marketplace? So that's the way I would phrase the question rather than what goes through the MRF or not. For example, critical minerals, that's another area that I highlighted. We have critical minerals that have a lot of economic value. There's gold and silver. They don't necessarily go through the MRF. But if they are recycled and processed properly, there is economic value to recycling them. But how do we do that? So that's the way to look at it. Does it have an economic value at the end? Great. Thank you. Dime, I think you were next. Thank you. Thanks for that wonderful presentation. I learned a bunch of things that I didn't know about how involved BPA is in recycling. Your presentation focused on federal grants in particular. And so we listed all the grants and all the money going to state and local for governments for recycling and education and outreach. And that's all wonderful. But there are other federal and state policies that could facilitate local recycling. And in fact, it seems to me that it's possible that different ways for the federal government to spend money might involve creating markets for these things. The other point about your presentation is that you focused on things that there's a market for. Well, we might be able to reduce landfill costs and recycle more materials if there were policies that could create markets for things that don't now have a market. And so I guess the question is basically is that are you interested for us to discuss some of those options with pros and cons? Because, you know, I think for economists, it's not all about market prices and quantities. The markets currently for recycling are insufficient. And they don't take into account social costs or externalities, so to speak. So we're worried about, you know, the social cost of landfilling and of recycling and of the distribution of those costs and environmental justice in particular. So, you know, I know all these things are listed in the in the list of tasks, but we want to look outside the market. And so I don't think we want to have our hands tied by looking at things that that can be bought and sold. You know, even the economists here know that there's value social value in these in these other things. Lawrence, do you want to answer that with the social cost of waste that we've been looking at? Well, I'll just say that, yeah, I recognize that we spent a lot of time on the grants and there are definitely other kind of federal initiatives that can be taken and state level initiatives that can be taken. I didn't really have a lot of time to go into things like a container deposit legislation, like bottle bills, those are some guidelines that on the state level help impact markets on the local level, like states have their own bottle bill legislation, and that affects whether people are maybe more incentivized or motivated to recycle their bottles and cans than without one. And so we definitely do recognize that there are other kind of guidelines and initiatives that could be taken to impact the local level. And I would say that we definitely are interested in looking at what some of those those other ones could be. Let me just add to Don to your question. I think that's a you do raise an important point about because we are doing a separate, you know, sort of thinking on social costing and externalities and the materials that, you know, cannot be recycled. What are some of the, you know, not just cost of landfilling, but noise and odor and, you know, greenhouse gas. To me, again, I don't want to limit the study. So please don't get me wrong. I think it's almost like those two things get confused a lot. And this is a charge to you. Maybe there's a way to explain it that these are the things that are can be bought and sold and it's an economic activity. And these are the things that can't brought and sold. There's still value to it from a social cost point of view, but they are not necessarily things that can be bought and sold.  And but they have inherent value from the social cost point because they are avoiding landfilling. So maybe maybe look at it in those two different lengths, because my concern is these two get conflated a lot.  That's kind of what I'm trying to avoid. But it's hard to explain externalities to non-economists sometimes. And I call myself as a non-economist. So a next question. Patsyma, did you get your question answered? Yes, mostly. Okay. Do you want to elaborate? Yeah, I think I'm just, I mean, this was excellent. Like, thank you for the description. I just I'm just worried about how we're seeing recycling as a part of like a value chain, or could it perhaps ever be considered like a community-driven activity? Because I'm being very mindful about who has access to recycling programs and how value chains are built. And this ultimately will impact communities that don't have access to infrastructure, right? Like communities that are far off. And then it becomes an environmental justice. Like if we're going to start off there, then we're excluding the justice aspect right away, right? Like we're couching it out from our scope right away. And so I'm just trying to be mindful of is it can we perhaps think about community-driven value? Which obviously people assign different values to different things. So I'm just trying to think about like, how do we think about it not just as an economic activity? I hear you with is recycling just a do-gooder activity, but I'm trying to think about how to frame it so that we're not excluding the justice aspect right from how we frame it. Yeah, I think I would have to think about that more. But I'm trying to picture the framing of the report as like the cost of recycling. So there are those economic costs, but there's also the programmatic costs. So like the actual tangible infrastructure and administration costs, the hopefully things like the grants do kind of help support recognizing that yes, not every city and program has a recycling program right now. And that's due to a variety of reasons that we talked about. And so having an understanding that not everyone has access to recycling, this is also part of some of the other reports that we're working on like the infrastructure assessment to help understand like what infrastructure is needed to provide access to more communities that don't have them. That is something that we definitely need to consider. But yeah, I think I just need to think about that more because the environmental justice aspect of this is really difficult because that access is just not available for everyone. So yeah. Yeah, and we didn't talk about it as much. We may have just mentioned it. There's a lot of work and thinking on environmental justice. I mean, the entire grant program that we have is subject to justice 40. So it means 40% of the grant. So I understand that that's a concern, but I will say there's a lot of work that is going into that area. So my sort of suggestion would be to keep the study more focused on the economics part of it just because you don't want to have too many things going on with the study. I mean, admittedly, that's a very important area, but it has been a lot of work that's already going on. And there's other studies that we're doing on. In fact, like I mentioned, we're doing a social cost of waste that we're putting 40% of our grant money into social justice issues. So I see them as complementary, but different things, if that's helpful. Great. Thank you. Mitch, you've been very patient. Yes. You're muted. Okay. Have I ever not been muted? That's the question. So my question has to do with the grants program. It seems that there is a high and an appropriate emphasis on disadvantaged communities, places where the need is great, where significant improvement can occur. Might there be also a little niche for high performing or highly improving programs that can serve as exemplary role models for other ones? Maybe their grants might also include support for technology transfer, you know, collaboration with other programs where the need is high. And yeah, that's my suggestion, whether or not you could might sort of have a vanguard of high performance that could disseminate out to other systems. Yeah, our community grants, the ones, they should be on our website. The ones that have been selected, a lot of them represent kind of the gamut of cities from all the way from, you know, Austin to Greenfield. I mean, they really represent sort of the range of cities across and communities across the world, across the US, sorry. So I think that we will see that once these grants are implemented, we will see a lot of great case studies. Jeremy, I'm afraid we're kind of out of time. Andrew, there were a lot of questions remaining that we discussed before. So do you think it'd be possible to summarize these and maybe just get some written responses? Maybe that's something that might happen afterwards. But we can talk about that later. Yes, certainly. Yeah, this is not the last and all the all for the conversation. So can certainly do that as well. Well, I just want to wrap it up by saying thank you so very much for the very thoughtful presentation and task description that you've provided to us to kick us off. And we're all very excited to be part of this study committee and looking forward to working together and hopefully meeting your needs. But this was so very, very helpful. Okay. Is there anything else? I mean, I know some people have asked for the slide deck, which we're happy to give you. Are there other materials that we can give you? A lot of them are on our website that would help the committee. You can let us know. Yeah, certainly, we'll certainly let you know as it comes up. I'm sure there will be things that you've already got that we could benefit from. Okay. Okay, Andrew. Yep. And we can help facilitate that. So we're with Laurence as you flag things for us. We can certainly, for any of your reports or notices of grants, anything else like that we can kind of facilitate and make sure that is available as part of kind of all of the committee's materials. So if we could start off with a list of recommended reports and papers, that would probably help accelerate our efforts. And then once we identify those, then maybe you might, Andrew, help us get them. Okay. Great. Well, thank you, Lauren, since Rupa for joining in the discussion. And we can kind of wrap up our open session here. Again, if there's any questions, kind of for those others tuning in, feel free to reference the project webpage. And my email was on the holding slide earlier and is also available on the project webpage for any further questions and comments. So thanks all. We will thank you, everyone. We were thrilled to have work with all of you. Thank you. Thank you both. Great. Thanks. We will quick pause. Maggie, welcome to the committee. We'll give our committee members a quick bio break if that works just a couple of minutes. Could we convene, let's say, 408? Can we stretch it to an eight minute bio break? I know there was a need to kind of get up and bio break, get a snack or lunch. And yeah, we'll see you in a couple of minutes. So let's say 410. And Maggie, we can connect now to make sure everything's, see you all in a few minutes.


Ladies and gentlemen, it's a great honor for me to address this distinguished audience at the Institute of International and European Affairs, which provides a prestigious platform for high-level analysis of European and global issues. Nearly three years ago, five countries came together to a meeting of their foreign ministers in the margins of UN General Assembly in New York to form a new partnership. MIKTA is an unofficial consultation and coordination platform, which was initiated in 2013 among Mexico, Indonesia, Korea, Turkey and Australia. The MIKTA initiative is not a regional cooperation organization and is not an alternative to any other organization. MIKTA aims to contribute constructive solutions to regional and global problems as well as enhancing effectiveness of global governance. Therefore, MIKTA countries which are all G20 members and have similar characteristics with regard to their peaceful and constructive approach to international issues, their democratic political structures and their rapidly growing economies aim to increase their coordination and cooperation in various platforms and issues from G20 to the UN Security Council, from climate change to nuclear disarmament and democratization. MIKTA countries that have a significant level of economic power also work to strengthen their economic and political ties as well as develop joint positions concerning several regional and global issues. Distinguished guests, the era in which we live is an age of rapid changes. Accordingly, foreign policy issues have also gained a more complex and complicated character. Today, taking the necessary steps is keeping with the speed of these changes and development is the most important task laid before decision makers. In such an environment, developments show us that international legitimacy, economic interdependence, respect for human rights, pursuing a sustainable environmental policy and harmony between people belonging to different religions and ethnic origins stand as the most important tools to build lasting peace, stability and prosperity. The realities of our time also compel us to analyze international dynamics with a global perspective of peace. Located in one of the important intersections of different foreign policy dynamics in extraordinary process also shapes Turkey's basic foreign policy issues. In light of the many opportunities created by globalization, we were in fact hoping for the emergence of a new environment conducive to lasting peace. However, traditional security issues as well as new and evolving risks and threats such as terrorism, proliferation of weapons of mass destruction, cross-border organized crime and illegal immigration continue to overshadow our optimism. Turkey pursues a dynamic and visionary foreign policy with a view to steering the developments in a positive direction in a region where the impact of global changes are greatest. In this context, Turkey's multi-dimensional, constructive, realistic and responsible foreign policy is one of the most important assets in realizing its national and international goals. Turkey does not only develop its bilateral and regional relations in its close neighborhood but seeks to create a positive synergy on a much wider scale and thus aims to contributing to global peace, stability and security. Turkey is aware of the necessity to foster the linkage between political stability, economic welfare and cultural harmony in order to attain sustainable global peace. To this end, Turkey is committed to further enhance political dialogue with all countries, search for new economic and commercial areas of cooperation and increase its humanitarian aid and assistance to the developing countries. As an emerging energy hub and a transit country, Turkey plays an important role with respect to global energy security. Likewise, as an active member of the G20, which gave a new impulse to the quest for global governance, Turkey is pursuing a more representative and democratic global system. Turkey also assumes active role in endeavors to foster mutual respect and common values among different cultures and religions. In this regard, the Alliance of Civilizations Initiative, co-sponsored by Turkey and Spain, represents the strongest response ever to the scenarios of the so-called clashes of civilizations. Turkey conducts a foreign policy guided by the principle of Peter's at-home peace in the world as set out by Mustafa Kemal Atatürk. It has a broad and constructive vision and is committed to make use of all its means and capabilities towards this end. Turkey will resolutely continue its efforts in this direction, which will not only guarantee its national interest, but will help achieve the common goals of humanity. Within this framework, Turkey strongly supports the strengthened cooperation in the fields of energy, fight against terrorism and security, commercial and economic cooperation, good governance and democracy, sustainable development, gender equality, and peacekeeping operations among mixed countries. Turkey thinks that mixed-up platform can further contribute to develop constructive solutions to several regional and global problems. Mixta is also instrumental for Turkey to improve its bilateral relations with Mexico, Indonesia, Korea, and Australia. Ladies and gentlemen, as of 1 January 2016, the population of Turkey was estimated to be almost 80 million people. The population is relatively young, with 26.6% under 15 years old. Turkey has been one of the most important centers of commercial and financial relations between the East and the West throughout history. The ancient state of Istanbul's strategic location has fostered Turkey's commercial and financial ties over the years. With a gross domestic product of $800 billion, Turkey is the 70th largest economy in the world. Vision 2023, as it's known, sets ambitious targets. This is the year when Turkey will celebrate the centenary of the proclamation of the Republic. Turkey expects to be counted among the world's 10 strongest economies, with a GDP of $2 trillion and an export volume of $500 billion by 2023. Furthermore, Turkey aims to transform its economy into a highly-added and knowledge-based high-tech economy. Exceeding $100 billion in total board, crucial investment projects to support and facilitate further growth are currently underway, particularly in the domains of transportation, energy, and communication. More than $120 billion of direct investment has flown into Turkey's pasticate alone. Turkey's target is to become a regional financial center over the course of the next decade and at the end of the decade by 2023 to become a global financial center. Turkey will invest $100 billion in energy within the next 10 years. Installed capacity of electricity generation is targeted to increase to 100,000 megawatts. Power generated from geothermal, solar, wind, and hydroelectric energy is on the rise. By 2023, Turkey aims to increase the portion of renewable energy, renewable in the energy mix to 30%. Turkish airlines carried more than 60 million passengers in 2015. It's projected to reach 100 million passengers by 2020. The new Istanbul airport is going to be built in four phases. The total capacity of the airport will reach 150 million passengers. Turkey is one of the member of the United Nations, the organization of the Islamic Conference, the organization for economic cooperation and development, and the organization for security and cooperation in Europe. A member state of the Council of Europe since 1949 and of NATO since 1952. Since 2005, Turkey is at accession negotiations with the European Union, having been an associate member since 1963. Turkey is also a member of the G20, and of the World Trade Organization. In 2022, sorry, in 1992, Turkey and 10 other regional nations formed the Black Sea Economic Cooperation Business Council to expand regional trade and economic cooperation. Turkey Foreign Ministry opened 65 new missions in the last 13 years, and 228 diplomatic and consular missions in foreign countries right now. Ladies and gentlemen, the Syrian crisis has become the world's largest humanitarian tragedy in recent memory. Almost half of the country's population, close to 12 million men, women and children, have been displaced. Since 2011, Turkey has been a refuge for Syrians who escaped the civil war in their country. All in all, hosting nearly 3 million Syrians, plus other number of refugees in the world. Other third country nationals, according to the UN's HCR figures, Turkey today hosts the highest number of refugees in the world. To date, the government has spent more than 10 billion US dollars for the refugees. Around 260,000 Syrians are accommodated in 25 temporary protection centers and provided with food, non-food items, health and educational services, as well as psychological assistance, vocational training and social activities in Turkey. For Syrian refugees living outside of the protection centers, a specific permission to go to other city province is not required. The attitude of Turkish society to migrants, refugees, asylum seekers and people under temporary protection has always been one of the tolerance, sympathy and solidarity. Syrian refugees are also allowed to work legally in Turkey now as legislation was passed on 15 January this year to allow Syrians to enter the Turkish labor force. Now there are almost 830,000 Syrian children who need education living in Turkish soil. The capacity created until now stands at more than 500,000. Still at least 25,000 teachers are urgently needed. And these education providers are planned to come from the Syrian refugee communities, of course. Syrian refugees who entered Turkey are registered by the Turkish authorities. Free access to medical treatment is facilitated for all Syrian refugees residing in protection centers. Furthermore, Syrian nationals who are not residing in protection centers can approach health centers or state hospitals and receive medical attention free of charge. Syrian refugees may attend Turkish language courses and skills, hobby and vocational courses offered by public education centers free of charge. In the context of the temporary protection regime, all Syrian refugees may avail themselves of the protection of the government of Turkey. In practice, this means that they may approach the authorities, including police, and report and seek assistance for any crime that they may experience while in Turkey. Thus, Turkey has become one of the most important actors in the global humanitarian system. We do not only help the kindred communities or neighboring countries, but we also try to reach places in Africa, the Caribbean, and the Asia Pacific region. Our solidarity with the Somali people who suffered from a severe drought in 2011 is just one example. Turkey proudly emphasized the human-oriented diplomacy which became an integral part of her foreign policy. There are simply too many leaves at stake, and inaction is not an option. At this critical juncture, Turkey hosted the first ever UN World Humanitarian Summit on 23 May 2016. The summit gathered the world leaders with the affected communities and sought answers for the urgent challenges to the future of the system together with NGOs, private sector, and representatives of other stakeholders. The World Humanitarian Summit provided a vital platform to address the challenges burdening the humanitarian system. In addition to such issues as responding to recurrent protracted crisis and waves of displacement, some pressing issues such as ensuring sustainable, reliable, and predictable humanitarian financing have been examined. Other questions such as what innovative methods could be used or how to promote localized humanitarian responses through more tailor-made and user-friendly approaches, as well as the question of dignity and safety in humanitarian action, have been addressed at the summit. The summit was an occasion for all the nations of the world and their leader to take action while millions stand on the brink of light and death. As the summit motto clearly reflects, it's our common humanity to save. Thus, it should be our shared responsibility to act. Turkey believes that the summit is the turning point at which we reaffirm our commitment to our responsibilities as states, international organizations, the private sector, civil society, and individual leaders. Today, as no country is immune from humanitarian crisis, we believe responding to this crisis is not only an international responsibility, but also a moral obligation. Distinguished guests, MiGTA can make an important contribution to regional and international peace, can reflect the consigns of the international community. MiGTA countries have both the will and capacity to contribute to the public good and strengthen global governance. Turkey is looking at ways of building on and stepping up cooperation among MiGTA countries. In this context, the enhancement of connectivity and cooperation not only among governments, but also among business, academy, and cultural circles is important. This is why Turkey strongly supports the idea of creating the MiGTA academic network. Turkey strongly supports the extent of cooperation among MiGTA countries and international organizations beyond the UN. Our journey with MiGTA is just progressing. MiGTA will continue to expand and strengthen its role for more efficient and effective global governance. Thank you for your patience.


Good morning YouTube family when you're watching this it's Sunday morning Happy Mother's Day to all the mothers literally around the world watching this daily vlog. Thank you for being here I hope you have a great day rest up make other people get you everything treat yourself treat yourself All right, I'm gonna treat myself to some coffee if you know what I mean. Oh, man. Happy Mother's Day 2019 Nice it's summertime pulling out the summer stuff time to get organized Look at it It's a little crazy, but we got this we got this all right Just working on the boys new fort if you've been watching the vlog for a long long time You know that this is a brand new addition to our backyard. It's it's pretty epic I will give you the full view here in a second. Oh, man Nothing like a good fort as a kid right and frankly as an adult as well. All right putting on the What is that called the steering wheel for the ship? So this is the boys new fort.  So good times here in Denver, Colorado. Oh, man. It's pretty epic So it's got the first level Second level is that we just put we call it the crow's nest way up there. So Boom off to the gym. Here we go Oh and back we are back we are in the studio I think the last clip that I filmed earlier today I said that I was going to the gym and you're probably like, hey, where is where's the footage from the gym? I did go I promise But yes, there are some situations in filming the daily vlog that do pop up Thankfully, there's not that many overhead expenses when filming editing a daily video and uploading it to youtube That's the beauty of new technology. Like we couldn't do this You know 10 years ago it would be much more difficult and 15 years ago wouldn't even be possible So anyway, I'm grateful for gopro technology But sometimes it says enough is enough and this would not turn on today the gopro 7 Not sure what's going on I'll try to take it into best buy tomorrow to see if it can if they can Help me out a little bit see if something's going on that they can figure out, but it did not turn on today So I do have some money saved up. So that's good. So I think I can replace it sooner rather than later But these things happen in life, don't they? Oh my goodness Don't they and that's what we're gonna reflect on today the injury and getting to the bottom of why I think This injury happened now. Listen unless it's a traumatic injury There's a good chance that you will never know what actually caused your injury now We can make a lot of good guesses Overuse is the common term thrown around in the running world an overuse injury and yes I'm basically putting this injury into the overuse category. What does that mean? Basically, I probably ran too much or more likely actually in my case Too much at too high of intensity meaning too fast of miles or kilometers Now before I reflect and yes keyword reflect before I reflect with all of you on why I think this injury popped up in this training cycle and what shoe or shoes may have may have Added to the possibility of this injury happening. I want to remind everyone what I'm actually Trying to fight for and pull off in the next nine months and it's kind of it's it's it's not going to be easy It's it's guy and it just got a little more difficult because of this injury. Okay. I am not a state champ from high school I think my highest finish was Seconds place or third place in the two mile. I think I put I think I was third place in the two mile Not bad, but I was never a state champ. Uh, that was my brother. He cleaned house in high school Uh, and then across in college. I was never an all-american like I did I did okay But I was never an all-american and so fast forward to uh, let's say four Years ago. So 2015 basically I became an ultra runner. So Longer races 30 mile races 50 mile races 100 mile races, which what does that mean? You're running slower So I actually wrote down some splits here races between seven to 10 minutes a mile depending on the distance And which is 420 per kilometer 420 to 615 per kilometer so much slower paces compared to what I'm trying to do now And uh, yes, even nine months ago. It's crazy eight to nine months ago I was trying to finish a hundred mile race and in that process of training for a hundred mile race Actually going out and racing uh with planter fasciitis. It didn't feel good. You see my tears there on the on the screen Like it was an intense moment. Yes. If you want to go watch it. It's a good vlog Uh, but I was trying to pull off something that was Probably a little too early in my running career.  I'm honestly thinking early 40s. So seven eight years from now And so then so then after about a month and a half later I did a half marathon time trial Many of you have seen this footage that you're looking at on your screen I ran well basically one hour and 11 minutes flat here at elevation Solo on kind of a rolly course an hour and 11 minutes and I was running 40 to 50 miles a week And that woke me up. I thought to myself, huh? That's a fast. That's a pretty fast time at elevation solo I wonder what I could do at sea level in a competitive environment And so over the past three to four years. It's been slower racing Seven eight nine minutes per mile in a race. I know it's I that's what ultra running is especially at at elevation on hilly courses um, and now I'm going through this kind of a dramatic shift in A fairly short amount of time as I attempt to chase down this 219 marathon and because of that I knew last, you know, december and early january 2019 that I needed to make A change in my training so that I could drop from the seven minutes a mile Down to 518 per mile and I know I can do it But I got to stay healthy, right? And I need to walk that line and probably back off that line now now in retrospect Back off that line on the threshold runs and the tempo runs as I'm Chasing down this this this uh this 518 per mile pace that I need to get to And so, um, I am yes, I can pinpoint april 3rd My first tempo run 15 miles six minutes per mile or 345 per kilometer.  I'm not blaming a shoe. I'm blaming myself for putting too many miles In this shoe that I'm about to show you I basically I lost track of how many miles I had put into this shoe And uh, you know how I like to put 50 miles into a shoe before I give you my full review So that's what I was doing and frankly guys at the end of that 15 mile tempo run I was wearing this shoe and I I lost track I had put I instead of 50 I had put 99 miles I feel a little dumb now It just proves like make sure you're tracking your miles on your shoes And yes guys the shoe that I'm about to show you it's not a training shoe I should not have put this many miles in the shoe. It's it's a racing shoe Uh, you could do tempo work in it if you wanted and listen, I still like the shoe a lot But I should have only put 50 miles at the most and more like probably 20 to 30. Uh, uh, uh So yeah, yeah, it is the Adidas Adi zero audios for uh, again, I like the shoe a lot But I this shoe does not have enough midsole Through the entire shoe, but especially the forefoot and so I'm blaming myself for losing track of the miles But I just want you to know, uh I I'm also I'm also blaming the fact that I don't think this shoe has enough cushion to use it as a regular trainer And I knew that I knew that But I wanted to get 50 miles in for you and then I look on Strava and I'm like, oh I put 99 miles in the shoe and so say la vie. What are you gonna do? I feel a little dumb, but this is life. This is life. And like I mentioned at the beginning I'm not just blaming one shoe or just that tempo run. It's an accumulation of overuse that leads to injuries in runners And preventative measures should have spent a little more time on dirt Should have spent now. I'm excited for cross training moving and gosh glass half full. Who knows long term Maybe this is what I needed to light a fire in my cross training Uh desire like just to get into that pool more often to get onto the cross training bike More often. I'm excited now. So I'm gonna once I'm healthy and back to running You better believe I'm gonna continue to do cross training. I don't know how much I gotta find that balance as well But uh, and then also just a little bit more Cushion through the midsole on longer runs and or tempo runs Now listen, I will remember the vermero 14 not working out for me And that was gonna be my long run shoe in 2019. So who knows? I don't know. Maybe if I would have stuck to the vermero 14 more. So this spring, maybe I could have prevented this I don't know now. I have received some Messages and I've read some comments here on youtube saying that minimalist shoes versus maximalist shoes That's not what I need to be focused on. I need to be focused on Strengthening my feet and you remember I was doing foot strengthening exercises all winter I filmed it quite a bit for you guys because I knew I needed to take care Of my feet and make sure my feet stayed healthy. Well in retrospect probably should have done more of that Uh, but we're not gonna have that debate now between maximalist shoes So like hoka shoes and minimalist shoes But I will give you my thoughts very very soon on that topic because it's a very good one to discuss I definitely have my opinions As far as staying healthy and uh, yeah, I'm not gonna get into it now. We will get into that very soon Okay, again reflect is the keyword and the question of the day I don't want to focus on the negative and injuries. I want to focus on the positive I want to hear how was your long run this weekend or How was your race this weekend because I know a lot of you race this weekend Let us know where the race was what distance you ran and what time you hit I'd love to congratulate you and just give you a digital high five here on youtube. Keep it positive That's what we're all about and uh tomorrow. I will give you an update on my foot. All right Does that sound good how it's feeling how it's progressing? Etc etc. Thank you for being here. It was a fun day organizing at the house and uh, Just enjoying the weekend and trying to relax trying to chill out Trying to enjoy this moment where i'm not running and just let the body heal let it heal seek beauty Work hard and love each other See you tomorrow


Now listen to Father Knows Best, transcribed, starring Robert Young as Father. Another half-hour visit with the folks in the White Frame House on Maple Street. Sit back and enjoy life with the Andersons. Kathy, Bud, Betty, Margaret, and Jim as the head of this typical American household again sets out to prove that Father Knows Best. The White Frame House on Maple Street underwent a fairly unique change in personnel last week when its youngest member, Kathy Anderson threw off the shackles of girldom and became as far as she was concerned a boy. All efforts to reconvert her have failed and now the family is beginning to accept her as Sam as is evidenced by this Saturday morning phone call. Like this. Okay, does he go to your school? Heck no, he goes to the Military Academy. Really? Sure, I'm gonna go there too. You can't go there. Doesn't Mike know you're a girl? I saw her see you was in the kitchen. House! You can't go anywhere looking like that. Wait a minute.  No! I swear it looks shorter every time I see you. Where's my- Now Kathy, you- Mom, could you make me some lemonade, Bud? You're supposed to be out mowing the lawn. Well, I was, but I got worried about a blister. Oh really? Yeah. If a blister breaks and you get dirt in it, do you get infected? Well, you certainly could. Let's see where it broke. Oh, it didn't break. Oh, well let's see the blister. Oh, I haven't got a blister yet. Well, for goodness sake, what's all the fuss about then? Well, I just thought I'd better quit while I still had my health. Oh, Bud. One time Claude Messner had a blister. I don't want to hear about it. In Altoona, Pennsylvania. Now, Bud. Mailman, letter for the president of the PTA. Where are you, president? In the kitchen, scrubbing the floor. You should get the vice president to do that. Bud, what are you doing in here? Is this the way you mow the lawn? Well, I was just telling mom about the time Claude Messner had a blister on his foot. I'm sorry I missed that. But it was fascinating. Well, what happened? I don't want to hear it.  Hurry now. I'm going, I'm going. Where's my letter? Oh, here it is. Oh, look at this. What is it? A postcard for Sam Anderson. Oh, dear. From the Ajax Power Tool Company. She's certainly going in whole hog for this boy business. Well, for goodness sakes. Margaret, did you know about this? About what? This letter. It's from the Springfield Military Academy. Did Bud mention anything about this to you? Jim, I don't know what you're talking about. It's an application from them. It says our son, Master Anderson, requested it. Now, why would Bud want to go to a military school without consulting us? It is strange. You suppose something has gone wrong at school? He certainly hasn't mentioned it, if it has. Maybe he feels we push him too hard, expect too much work out of him. Oh, Heaven, it's a little bit of work. He does around here. I'd better go out and have a talk with him. Get to the bottom of this thing. Well, it's certainly not like Bud at all. Bud! I'm going to start mowing right now, Dad. Never mind that now. If you feel it's too hard or anything like that, just let it go. Would you repeat that? I said let it go, the grass will keep. Let's sit down here, Bud, and have a little talk. We haven't had a good man-to-man chat for quite a while. Well, come on, sit down. I'll mow the lawn. No, I don't want you to. Sit down. Now, listen, Bud. The only way I can help you is for you to tell me just what the trouble is. The trouble? Just what is this gnawing you feel inside of you? Gnawing? Yes, what's causing it? I guess I'm just hungry.  Get things out in the open. It makes them much simpler. Now, this inner turmoil of yours, what's bringing it on? Well, the only time I notice it is right after I eat dill pickles. Oh, me. Look, Bud. I don't like them anyway. Jim. Don't bother us now, Margaret. But I have some important evidence to throw into this case, Your Honor. If you'd bothered to read the rest of this letter, you'd have found out it has nothing to do with Bud. What letter? It deals with our other son, Sam. What? What are you talking about? Oh, it's an application blank from the Springfield Military Academy. Evidently, Kathy is trying to enroll there. Kathy is? Well, I'll be switched. Bud, where are you going? Over to Joe Phillips. He said I didn't have to mow the lawn. Just forget what I said and get on that lawn. And get on it fast. Holy cow. Hurry. I'm doing it.  That needs it worse than this. Okay, okay. Why don't they make up their minds? Drive a guy crazy. Well, look at you. Boy, some people sure have it soft. What are you grumbling about, Grumpy? Sit on the porch and swing while your brother's working his head to the bone. Hey, bud, look. Who's that soldier coming down the street? Huh? Where? Oh, he's not a soldier. He goes to the Military Academy. Gee, he's good-looking and so tall. That's where Kathy wants to go. I don't blame her. I'd like to go there myself. Want me to go out and tackle him? Bud, stop it. And don't act like we're staring at him. Well, hello there, Betty. Well, hello. You live here? Yes, I live here. Well, I live near here now. Oh, you live near here? Yes. Well... Well, I'll be seeing you. Yes. Boy, that was sure a red-hot conversation. I thought he looked familiar. Who is he? That's Glenn Rogers. That's it, Glenn Rogers. I met him at the club dance last week. Sure, I remember. Oh, I've got to tell Mother. I'll bet she can hardly wait to hear that. Out in the kitchen. I wish you wouldn't come busting into the house screaming like a banshee.  What's the matter with you, Sam? I got problems. Haven't we all? Which reminds me, I've got a little matter I want to take up with you. You know what, Daddy? Now, wait a minute. Who's Mike? Oh, he's this new kid I've been playing with. He goes to the military academy. Oh, go on. Well, they're having a party there tonight. The annual spring frolic. Yes. And Mike is going to it, and he has to take a girl to it. I think I'm beginning to see. Dog gone, and I want to go with him, but I can't because I'm a boy now. Well, you've got quite a problem there, all right? Wait till I tell you the rest of it. He doesn't know any girls around here, so he's asked me to get him a date. I wish I was twins. No, I think one of you is plenty. I'll get him a date with my twin sister. Well, now wait, Kathy. Sam, we better think this over first. There's no time to think. Yes, I did. Got one all lined up for you, and boy is she a keen date. My twin sister. I know you didn't, but I got one, and boy is she pretty. You'll just love her. Don't lay it on too heavy. She's got kind of short hair, but on her it looks beautiful. Oh, she gets an engraved invitation? Well, bring it over right away. Yeah, so long, Mike. Sam, that faucet in the kitchen is leaking again. For heaven's sake, what's Sam up to now? Margaret, you'll be happy to know that Sam is, at this moment, reconverting back to Kathy. What? She has just gone upstairs to dress up. In a dress. How in the world did you accomplish that? I didn't. It was done by the oldest known device, the greatest motivating force in the world. Love. Just what are you talking about? A little boy named Mike has come into her life, and he's taking her to a party. And furthermore, there's someone at the front door, and I'll go back and work on the faucet. Which one is it, the hot one again? Yes, you'll find the washers in the bottom drawer. Oh, it's love that makes the world go round. Yes, it's love that... Hello, Princess. Hello, Father, who is at the front door? I don't know, your mother answered it. Let's see now, where are my wrenches? Coming, Mother, who is at the door?  And he brought this for you. For me? Yes, he said it was for Sam's sister.  Why, it's an invitation to the spring frolic at the military academy. Where? From Cadet Roger. Is that the boy you were telling me about? Yes, that's his name. Oh, isn't it wonderful? Mother, you've just got to let me wear your pumps, the ones with the real high heels. Those won't be comfortable. But Mother, if I don't wear them, I'll look utterly puny alongside my date. He's so tall. Return to the Andersons in just a moment. They hear something for the girls. Each of the women's services, the WAC, the WAF, the WAF, the Women Marines, the Army, Navy and Air Force Nurse Corps, and the Services Medical Specialist Corps, all need volunteers. Get full information at your local recruiting office. Ah, there's good news in the Andersons household tonight. At least it seems like good news, what with Kathy changing back into a girl and preparing for her date with young Cadet Mike Rogers, and with Betty madly dressing for what she thinks is a date with Cadet Glen Rogers. Right now, all efforts are being turned toward trying to make the former Sam Anderson look like a sweet little feminine type girl. Like this. Oh, this hair of yours, Kathy. It's so short I can't get hold of it to curl it or tie a ribbon or anything. We'll do something to it. Better get her a wig. Ah, turn blue. Hold still, Kathy. I'll try again. Gee, I've just got to look like my twin sister. You look more like your twin brother. Whatever it is, Betty, I haven't time to help you now. I don't know, aren't they there? There's an intelligent conversation. This will be fine. Stand still, Kathy. Nobody makes sense around here. Do parties affect everyone like this? Dad, how much do I get for mowing the lawn today? Here's one kid who's keeping his feet on the ground. How much? Seems to me your regular allowance ought to cover that. I took an awful chance on getting blisters. Yes, you did. But if you wear a heavy pair of trousers, no one will notice them. I'll tell you what, though. I might boost your allowance up to one simoleon this week if you'll clean this other shoe of Kathy's. Mother! Prince Charming will be along any minute and we don't want our Cinderella left holding the pumpkin. That's another old proverb. Okay, give it here. Mother! Yes? Kathy, stand still. Ow! You're pulling my hair. That's the only way I can get hold of it. Mother! Maybe they've been put somewhere else. Has anyone got a pencil? I'd like to preserve that dialogue for posterity. Kathy, for heaven's sake, stand still. My niche! Well, here's one shoe ready. Raise your foot, Sam. There, Kathy. I'll try to put it on. The right rear foot. I'm sorry, but I can't help it. This is like trying to curl a nap on an old rug. Hold your foot steady, Kathy. And push. I'm pushing. My gosh, are you sure these are your shoes? Uh-huh. We'll never get your feet into these unless we fold your toes over. Shall I stop cleaning the other one? No, no. Those are the only party slippers she's got. All right, Kathy, let's try this again. Hold your foot steady. I'll breathe in. Yeah, that'll help a lot. Here we go. There. Don't breathe out too fast or you'll be barefooted again. I'm soaking in the linen closet. What for? What are you hiding for? This is sure interesting. I wonder what they're talking about. That's the best I can do. Come on upstairs and we'll see what we can find for a sash. Dad. Yes? Are all girls dopey? Well, no. Some of them have been known to have fairly lucid moments. What's that noise? Oh, that's Betty coming downstairs and those stilts she's got on. I hope she makes it. You need any help, Betty? How do I look, Father? Let me look at you. Don't move a muscle. Hmm. Radiant. Absolutely radiant. What do you say, bud? Eh. There. What higher praise can you get than that? He doesn't know. Well, yes. I'd say your door, bud. Oh, no, I'll go. I'll go. It's probably him. Don't trip on your way there. Good evening, Mrs. Anderson. Mrs. Anderson. I'm Cadet Rogers. Cadet Rogers? You? Yes, ma'am. I'm calling for Sam's sister. Well, I'm Sam's sister, but... You're Sam's sister? I think there's been some mistake. You're rather big for your age, aren't you? Well, yes, I am.  Yes, ma'am. I'll be right back. What's the matter, Princess? Oh, this is so humiliating. This is just awful, but awful. What's the matter? Aren't you tall enough? You should see him. He's about two... In that case, you'd better let him wear the high heels. Cadet Rogers. I know he's just a little kid. Probably cat. I wonder if Kathy had anything to do with this. Stay on me. What? There's a little kid at the door posing as Cadet Rogers. Oh, it was nice to get him a date with my twin sister. Oh. All dressed up for this. Well, somebody better go to the door.  Gee, Daddy, do I look all right? Get to the door and find out. Oh, what's all this moaning and groaning about? It's a long and confusing story, Margaret, but sit down and I'll tell it to you. Hurry up, Kathy. Get going. I'm scared. No, you're not. No hurry in there. You'd better tell him you're sorry you kept him waiting so long. That is if he's still there. Why, Sam? Huh? Hey, what's the idea of the funny outfit? Boy, you had me fooled for a minute there. Gosh, you even got your hair curled. Who did that, Sam?  I'll tell you one thing, Sam. I'd rather take you to the dance than that sister of yours. She's awful big for me. He may be a better teller. I suddenly got the mumps or something and can't go. Is she not the one you've got a date with? Hey, you know, maybe there's an idea. Hey, do you think we could get away with it? I believe you were a girl, Sam. Who is? Maybe I are a girl. What's the trouble, Angel? Mommy! Yes, Kathy? Kathy? Is that really his name? Her name? I'm all mixed up, Mrs. Anderson.  Well, you're not. Never were and never will be. Well, I'll be dark gone. You sure fool me. Hey, Mike, come on. Let's get going. Who's that? Well, that's my brother. He's waiting out in the car. He's going to drive us out there. Come on, Mike. Okay, just a minute. What's going on here anyway? Well, we're getting it all straightened out, I think. What's the matter with you, kitten? You don't sound like you're on your way to a spring frolic. Yeah, come on, Sam. Kathy, we better get going before my brother blows his top. Sure I do.  No, I don't. It was just when I thought you were sad that... Well, I mean... Well, look different now. You look real... Well, like a real female girl. Yes, sir. And boy, there's not many of them that can slide in a second like you either. Haven't you kids gone yet? They're both pretty far going right now at the moment. Here, Kathy, let me wipe away those tears and you'll be all set. You don't want to go to the party with your eyes all red. Hey, Mike, come on. Oh, excuse me. Why, Glenn? Oh, hello. Hello. I was just waiting for my kid brother. How are you? Your brother? Yeah. Oh, excuse me. Glenn, this is my mother and father, Cadet Rogers. He goes to the academy, too. How do you do? How do you do? Are we glad to meet another Cadet Rogers? There you are, Kathy. You look much better now. Gee, Betty, you sure look pretty tonight. I'll dress up. Well, thank you. Say, you weren't planning to take the kids to the dance tonight, were you? Well, as a matter of fact, I had considered it, but as long as you're taking them... Oh, no, no. I don't want to upset your plans.  Well, I guess it could be arranged. Well... Come on, we better get going. We're late now. Yeah, come on, Sam. All right, Kathy. Goodbye, Mommy and Daddy. Goodbye, darling. Have a good time, kitten.  It was a rough fight, but we finally won. But Kathy did look pretty, didn't she? She certainly did. Well, here's her old blue jeans on the stairs. I guess we can throw these away now, huh? Oh, no, don't throw them away. I want to put those with our family treasures, with a note on them. A note? Yeah. Goodbye, Sam. The Andersons will return in a moment. Opportunity Unlimited. That's the future for young women unmarried between the ages of 18 and 34 and our nation's armed forces. 72,000 enlisted women and officers are needed immediately for important assignments at home and abroad. Women with college degrees or the equivalent may qualify for officers' commissions. Registered nurses and qualified medical specialists are eligible for commission and are desperately needed. Go here, local recruiting office tomorrow. Well, the turmoil and confusion to preparing a pair of daughters for a spring frolic has finally died down in the White Frame House on Maple Street. An embrace of weary parents settle themselves in the most comfortable chairs in the living room for a little quiet reading. Like this. Ah. Feels good to sit down. Mm-hmm. I hope the girls will have a good time tonight. Just so Kathy remembers to dance with her partners instead of offering to wrestle them two out of three falls. I think she's learned her lesson. You know, I was just thinking, I believe girls are more trouble to raise than boys. Take Bud, for instance. He just goes along stolidly, never making much fuss about anything, perfectly satisfied with his lot in life. Hey, Mom. Yes, what is it, Bud? Mom, can I have this old dress of Betty's? Oh, no. I don't want to wear it. I'm cleaning my motor scooter and I need some old rags. Oh, by all means, take it, son, take it. Starring Robert Young as Jim Anderson. In our cast, we're Rhoda Williams as Betty, Gene Vanderpile, Norma Gene Nilsen, Ted Donaldson, Tommy Bernard, Jeff Silver and Bill Foreman. Don Stanley speaking. Father Knows Best, directed by Andrew C. Love, was transcribed in Hollywood and written by Paul West and Roswell Rogers. Three times mean good times on NBC. Friday night is your night to howl. To howl with laughter, that is, one for Bob and Ray, the top satirists on the air today. Yes, Bob and Ray is another great Friday night program in the NBC lineup, which also includes the Mario Lanza show and the Roy Rogers show. So keep your date with entertaining radio listening tomorrow and tune to this station, your favorite station of the NBC Radio Network. Now, it's nightbeat on NBC.