you have to live on your own and independent if you are waiting for the for work vaccine you don't know when and you you don't know how effective that will come to your body but if you if you are use your body that if you do your body to be health and strong whatever the disease go to you then you can fight it by yourself not waiting for for the medicine or medicine if you have the the best medicine but you don't have good digestive system or you don't have a good food or you don't have don't have good good body then you cannot get the good thing from the that best medicine it won't work if you are not ready for them Sawadee krab Sawadee krab Yitravadi Hemamantarop our better known as Dao and her wonderful husband we watch Hemamantarop they are both the founders of Tonklar Fasai and they are my guests on this episode of Inside Ideas brought to you by 1.5 media and innovators magazine I want you to tell you a little bit about both of these lovely guests Dao is a pharmacist and nutritionist and is the co-founder with her husband of Tonklar Fasai it's a restaurant and also a place of healing and nutrition where food is something very centered because if you eat better and use food and eat food as a medicine you can see tremendous results she suffered for 10 years with severe depression and made it her mission and her wish and desire in life to spend her life in a positive environment healing herself and helping others to to do this and that is how this social enterprise this restaurant and business of producing making eating food came about from Tonklar Fasai the motto is is let's start by eating right you are what you eat and to live well in the future is to eat well today while vitamin and food supplements are derived from fruits and vegetables wouldn't it be better to take food nutrients directly from the sources Tonklar Fasai is not just a restaurant it is what they proudly call a social enterprise this business does not only yield financial returns to these wonderful founders but also yields healthy lifestyles and longevity in a modern society this business model is just not about the restaurant but it has a wonderful food care center where Taylor makes nutrition and care for each of its customers to help them on the right path for their type of nutritional and eating habits their mission is to change people's habits and the way they eat food provide a service at the restaurant and at their clinic to aim to educate and show people the incredible benefits of eating healthy they have numerous examples of how they do this but I want you to know that they're very accredited and they've done a lot of research and put a lot of effort in and to making sure this is done properly now has this pharmacist background and her husband we're at is wonderful in his way because he has wrong business and marketing economic background he has two master's degree in business and marketing management and he really wanted to do a social business and the two of them together have come up with a social enterprise that is really changing the world they work with Mahidon University on research and accreditation as well as with Syria Hospital one of the leading hospitals in Thailand and Bangkok that has applied by traditional medicine with plant-based medicine and health and nutrition to come up with recipes of philosophy of come on me come on am I I think am I saying that right which is basically healthy and natural methods of food taking it from the farm to the fork and producing wonderful healthy body healthy mind and healthy behavior philosophy and the way they do food I want to welcome you both to the show thank you so much again for being on the show and taking your time how are you yeah we are we are fine now we want to show all the audience our restaurant also then we sit here it's a bit dark or something like that then you will you all will see we also have some food great great great I appreciate you both being on the show and it's so good to see you both and we know each other just for our listeners we met when I was in Thailand I was doing a tour of organic farms I was doing a tour of healthy restaurants vegan restaurants plant-based restaurants and it was referred to me not only from food in Oopolis which is a big food and policy event in Thailand and Bangkok that I attended and we were out was also part of that and and and that and they says you absolutely have to go to to on Clark and so I did and you spoiled me it was a wonderful event and I saw all the fabulous things you're doing to help people with healthy food nutrition and to to find a right way to show them that it's easy to do that the benefits are fabulous and that it's also just a better model for life and I have always said that if you keep in food you cheapen life and so I love your philosophies and the way you do things and I'm so honored to have you here on the show my my first question for both of you is when I was last in Thailand um it was before the pandemic I was right there actually as we already knew it was starting to go um but everybody was already wearing face mask and the reason why is because the air pollution was so bad at the time it was probably one of the worst times ever in Bangkok especially of air pollution so people had already been wearing masks for for at least a month if not a couple months because of the bad air pollution and then you guys have a very beautiful way of greeting people and a little bit of a social distancing just from a cultural way you guys are very hospitable and um so you weren't wearing masks because of the pandemic but I also noticed that during the pandemic your numbers remained low in the beginning that you had some preventative measures in place I want to know one how you've weathered the pandemic as a business as as a family as a life has doing this business and doing um your way of thinking about food helped you through the pandemic any better has it put you in a unique place to help others and how have you been how how has it been this crazy time for you guys uh the pandemic is quite uh uh fought for the restaurant they died in is silo you know because we have to close down to lock down the restaurant so the the people they they're not traveling outside their home right they have to lock down themselves at their home but on the other hand you know I think everywhere in the world they have the same behavior that the e-commerce and the food delivery they are they are increasing but for tonka frasai it's in our food is more immune you know immune to help booster as well so our sales uh I would say that surprisingly that our sales has increased increased yeah during the pandemic but but we don't think that it's going to be sustained for a long term unless we have to put more marketing effort later on later on but but just for a short term it is okay for us you know because we we have uh developed some some uh ingredients some ingredients something new and we have worked with the city last applied to a traditional medicine also they also have some uh traditional some juice it's a traditional juice her yeah for immune booster yeah but but by the way I would say further from from bengal frasai that because of pandemic or the it has impact the economy so there are huge amount numbers of unemployment in Thailand and uh the people are thinking that because Thailand we are fundamentally we are an agricultural country we are not we are not industrial country but because of the world development uh economic development uh we can call like in balance code then uh it has created some much more industrial sector rather than just uh food or agricultural sector is in Thailand but now we are coming back uh to be the right track so there are more food uh and more agricultural sector development here in Thailand and from we are also part of that that development because we try to use as much as we can the organic or the gap you know the good agricultural manufacturing uh practice you know that uh to to minimize uh the chemical uses from from from plantation in which that's uh the people can have the very good food for their good health and this this is some impact of the pandemic that uh have a relation with atonga frasai just to answer your question that's wonderful I want to go a little bit deeper so around the world all food services all food producers are what they consider essential services and I have a lot of friends and and a lot of companies and people involved in the food production and agriculture and food delivery food services and some of them especially in the gastronomy area were hit extremely hard because restaurants and and places of business were were shut down but many of them did a pivot and saw that many people were in lockdown didn't have the same nutrition and food a matter of fact just in in Bangkok there was a chef and he knew a good friend of mine who you seen the thing that delivered thousands of meals to hospital workers and since you're already working with Syria hospital and that I was wondering if there's any way that you guys were were able to help them for the not only the people in the hospital was maybe some healthier meals but also the workers because the workers were working extremely long hours but also there's many other people probably in in your community around the restaurant that maybe would have needed needed to see your health or your health and your your health of your company and your products I was wondering if you were able to be in a unique position to help them at all and then the second follow-up question is because you've had this this this business for a while now for 10 years and you you know about healthy food you know how to do it in the right way did that put you guys in a unique position to have some resilience as a business or resilience as a organization to be able to put you in a unique place to to get through the pandemic a little bit better I mean I know you you said the numbers shot up which is pretty much all over the world that's how essential services especially food they were off the shelf people were buying them up especially local things like crazy so I'd just like to hear your thoughts and your feelings about that and maybe tell us what you were able to do during that time okay I can we have we have three example three cases that we have involved the you know in Thailand we are the Buddhists and the people they offer food for the monk you know every morning mainly and because of the lockdown you know and the social distancing so people have a certified that they didn't have convenience sector or slider we have to set us social distancing so the monk has some problem to get the food from from from the buddhist so we help we help the service normally we do this because we think that monk is among the the group of the people that got sick because they cannot choose the food they have they have to eat whatever whatever the buddhist gives them you know to to the to the I don't know how to call it in English but to the licorations or to the maybe the vipers in buddhist that a monk cannot choose the food yeah because because they're given what what people give to them and so they can't waste it they have to eat it so it's not really good and I can imagine in many times it's not very healthy yeah so our our goal what about our goal is our normal product that we have offered these types of service we also give the good food for the monk as well as give the convenience to the donor the buddhist who has no time we have the group of the people who are going to offer the food for the monk we are like an intermediate party to to to provide this service and during the pandemic pandemic time the number of demand has been increasing yeah has increased quite a lot so this is one of the the law that we have paid the law to be the intermediate guy between the buddhist and monk and we're so during that time we're also giving extra discount as well yeah for what that kind of food like our customer call call us to give the food for monk on behalf of them and then we have the team that prepare the food and then go to the temple and present to monk so they just stay home and they can do more it that's beautiful that I really like that and thank you for sharing that I think that there's more opportunities than we know during a pandemic to really thrive and show people that all the success the knowledge the the type of social businesses that we have that they're not just for profit but they're in a unique position to be able to help and give back and all over the world we've seen businesses that have had sustainable practices practices in place that have allowed them to become essential services and to keep their doors open during this time or to pivot in a certain way to help others so I really appreciate you guys doing that and that's good to know uh I'm from what I see from you guys you you have definitely weathered the pandemic well you're both looking very healthy and happy and I see I've followed you and stalked you online for a while and I know you guys are doing wonderful things to educate the people of Thailand uh and people who speak Thai around the world in different ways of doing things in a much healthier better way so as many of my listeners probably already know Thailand is considered to be the kitchen of the world it is one of my favorite places to to be and types of cuisines to eat because it is still multifaceted and diverse of the beautiful wonderful things that we can eat and it is really an agricultural food place of the world that brings me to a unique thing and a unique next question which uh ties really close during this time of the pandemic the only real big thing besides the pandemic that was a global citizen was food food was still traveling around the world crossing borders being delivered to people and was the global citizen during this time of the pandemic and we as human beings were in a lockdown and we weren't global citizens and we're kind of in many ways not a global citizen but my question to you both is do you feel like global citizens and how would you feel about a world without nations borders divisions and the separation of humanity where we interact with each other a little bit more like food like air like water like the other species and animals on our planet that go around without any borders can you give me your thoughts or your feelings about that okay I can help without answer these questions actually it is a fundamental of our setting up this is for tonkaa faasai we are looking for sustainability or something that can help help the world because if all for my personal maybe for our personal value to do the business before tonkaa faasai I would say that the philosophy of doing the business that we want to do something that can create a better better world because we both of us have really young children you know our the audience is only seven years old but we age years old and youngest one is four years old so we want to complete the world for them and that for that future so as a global citizen as well so we think that we are thinking about that what kind of business that that would be better and can help everyone so we come up with many many ideas and then after we have met with the city lot applied time medicine traditional applied traditional medicine and we are they are they have informed us that there are a lot of sickness people from ncd and that age is very young you know and the dead person the dying age later on is younger and younger and younger and most of them are the key personnel for the family and once they got sick they become they have changed you know from the key person to be the burden you know they be they change from the people the person who earning the money to feed their family to become the spender it seems it seems like to you know the the I would say that opposite truly opposite from left to right and so we are yeah and the second thing that we are thinking about has a we are talking much about the the emission control right the the weather the climate change so it's come up to be the vegan food because the vegan food can help people get sick very late and the cost of the cost of a treatment for the health treatment is also very very low and the most important is to reduce to reduce the social problem you know if the family members are the key the one who earn the money become the sickness not just the money issue you know it's also the social issue that it's going to impact to the to the society so if we make the people more healthy they're going to have a happy life then we can have the better society this is also what what we are thinking about that the food can help we are we are not the doctor you know and put down cheese or pharmacist and the cheese not enjoy to convince the people to use medicine you know although she can make the money from the selling the medicine but it's not will not be sustained then we are thinking about that how we can make it more sustainable and then we know from the world that the vegan food is really the best for the climate to help reduce the emission because of the and okay let me let me go further in details that according to the study and to the discussion with Mahidron University at the city last hospital we have known that there are a lot of wisdom in the world a lot of knowledge in the world that trend based can be much better than this so we think that this this is become to become the our model and then our visit model we believe and we have the strong belief and the passion that this one is going to be can can help the society and can help the world here. Thank you very very much I I truly see that your your vision is a global vision and you realize that emissions and the suffering in our world is a global suffering that we're all on this spaceship earth together we're all crew members and we all need to come together as global citizens to solve the problem it's not just one country or the others issue to deal with the problems that we all need to come together and do it in in what we call a global way so a mix between global and local the more local community gathering we have with this global vision is really important now how I know you got these wonderful children I'd really like to know from you if there's anything your husband left out or if there's any other thoughts or feelings that you have about being a global citizen and how you envision a future that's possibly also without divisions and borders and nations that's truly global. I'm putting down on the spot because her English is good. She's a fabulous representative but for those of you who are watching live you you can see that they're coming from the inside of the restaurant and they're sitting in one of the nice corner corner booths and DOW is usually the face the tie face of of the company and does a lot of great podcasts but he speaks fabulous English it's just probably not as good as she would like it to be and so that's her husband just translated so I know I put you on the spot but do you have anything you would like to add to to to that? Our um we surely from from to for concept so we like we create happiness for every every stakeholder input consumption chain starting from farmer, chef, restaurant and also consumer beyond for our restaurant show our movement for change intention to provide food safety and promote healthy life so now you can eat food at the medicine to provide like to prevent you from using medicine at the food in the future so um it's more of a prevention than reactionary yeah and like to to be uh food like a medicine so we have to think a lot that our our dish will be medicine now but you can eat it like food and it have to be it to delicious and you know how you feel about healthy food is it seem delicious yes healthy food is very delicious no but in perception uh healthy food is not feel that delicious majority of for majority of the world they think uh that's true that they think healthy food doesn't taste good because they have a bad experience um somehow where they've tried a plant-based food and they say oh that tastes yucky that's no good when when uh when vegan and plant-based foods were really starting to make a a big movement um probably about 10 years ago I you know I tried some foods and they just tasted awful today I've had the fortune of the ability to travel around the world to taste fabulous foods and I really think that we're shifting from that that healthy food is actually great tasting but but there's an issue and maybe you can address that the issue is that if we're so desensitized we're so used to eating bad food our taste buds are different our body is also desensitized it's also sick in some respects and when you eat something that is raw or healthy or plant-based for the first time and let's say you're you've been a smoker or let's say you've been drinking a lot or just eating a lot of heavy fat bad foods when you first take this wonderful piece of food you're like oh that tastes awful but there's some secondary effects I've had a lot of friends um in the past this is years ago who were smokers and tried um let's say some acai based drinks or some some guarnara or some makimaki or something good and then all of a sudden they said it tasted good but right after that I had diarrhea or I was yeah and the reason why is because their body detoxified they're not used to that shock of that healthy food so there's just a little bit of a transition period where our taste buds and and we have to adjust to eating healthy and that's it that you know sometimes it's weeks sometimes it's month until we make that transition but I believe for a lot of us that just the initial taste of some of these foods are fabulous now for our listeners they can't see what you were holding up earlier but what you were holding up earlier was my absolute favorite dish in Thailand my favorite I don't know if you can call it a dish it's more like a snack it's mean calm am I saying that right mean calm yeah and and you're holding it up and I want you not only to show but I want you to maybe describe a little bit about this mean calm and why I I love it so much because it is absolutely fabulous please tell us a little bit about that oh first of all I just want to educate more about why your friend got diarrhea you know because uh plant based or vegan food has a lot of fiber so when you got you have more uh enough fiber then you have your uh you you can get easy to stomach aches you can get diarrhea because it's also cleansing you yeah it's like a detox your gi your uh it's a detox to your body and your intestinal yeah yeah and everything that's not food in your body like when you eat meat it's it's inside of you it's boom it's like a toxic so when you when you eat fiber then fiber go yeah pushes it out yeah and then your circulation is balanced and it's good for the health and I know a lot of people I I don't want to I didn't mean to interrupt you but I know a lot of people who have um and what we're and I sorry we're getting on potty talk or we're talking about the toilet but it's a fact of our good gut digestion and the microbes in our gut but I know a lot of people who eat and eat unhealthy foods that they sometimes go to the bathroom every three days sometimes every five days um that's not very healthy because you're building all those toxins in your body and after I think it's after like 48 hours max all the nutrients on that are out of out of the food and you're just building toxicity in your body and you need to kind of get it out and so um those people who've made that shift they're like I go to the bathroom a couple times a day you know and they're living much healthier so I think it's it's just a better term but yeah please educate us yeah and our motto our mission that we want to educate everything that is free people first you have to feel delicious from your blend not your time and the second one when you when you feel delicious from your blend and you your blend will let you know that how it good to your body then you feel good that you eat good food for your body and if it's plant-based or weekend then you will be more feel successful that you it's good for the world also not only for you but it's also for the society and moreover the last thing that you will have the healthy in return so delicious at the blend use use your brain to think it delicious and feel happy have a happy heart and having having a happy heart for the for the virtual so come out you can you can bring her out right now she's more funny too yeah no I mean it is right first you have to consciously do it put it in your brain then you you after you after you eat that and you realize that it's good for you then you feel more joy it starts to affect your life because not only once you get through that detox or once you've done it uh eating healthy food a little bit more then you feel joy you feel lighter you feel like you've gotten all the toxics out of your body and then the last one that you're you're saying it's not only good for the world but what was the last one you will be you when you help when you when you're healthy then you can do a lot more for the world yeah so not only are you not a burden on on on your family because they're taking care of you but you're able to do more for the world because you have more energy you feel better you have a different view of the world um so I I really like that and I think so important when when I was there visiting um I saw you know a few people coming and going you showed me some wonderful things and and and the restaurant and uh of the products and and things you did and and I have a lot of fond memories of those uh times but you were going to tell me about my favorite dish in front of you mean calm and one if I was saying it correct but if you could explain that and show it a little bit it's a very traditional explain the whole thing about it for our listeners uh we want to bring the past to uh prepare for both for your health now so whatever is good for you then we bring out we bring it to you in your food right now you know you know it this is a this is a lot and this this is a really useful flower not it's not only just flower but it's good for all the things of it so we bring out it like to be mean calm so in in one bite you got 11 herb in one just only in one bite and we it's like you you can have all kinds of taste you know nobody will have a taste like a sweet sour salt so so mean come you get more taste of the combination of the thing that we put it together the more taste and you will feel uh the more delicious and when you think it's delicious from your benefit it will be more so mean calm is a real traditional dish and it's normally done with a green leaf you have done it with a lotus flower leaf and what you do is you take that flower leaf and you bend it in a certain way like a cup and then you take the ingredients on the outside of that dish and which are lime and pepper and all different types of so 11 different types of things that you put into that lotus leaf and then you eat it in one bite so you're getting all of those out of it in this as my favorite that's absolutely fabulous but your can you tell me again how you're saying 11 herbs and vitamins in there can you tell us a little bit more about that and then you can can you imagine that you have 11 herbs in one bite you feel wow it's many nutrients nutrients and antioxidants from many kinds of plants of herbs and we also have uh uh calculate uh the nutrition in one menu that is not less than when when compared with meat our menu is better than we are friendly we have been asked from the customer from the customer that whether they have enough food or whether they have enough uh nutrition for their living or not from the plant base so kundal we have a calculation process yeah and we and we also have dietitian in in the process that all of this combination will give you everything your body wants like if you want protein from plant then we have quinoa and make of um cashew nuts and a lot of grain very great this is protein part this when when you have a lot of fiber so you have uh gas so we we we know that problems then we correct prevent that problem like uh this is a thing that this combination will release the gas from your body so you will feel good after you eat this you do not feel so so much gas for the digestion and bloating yeah beautiful beautiful that's beautiful oh and you can but then in more hours for the deletion is not only that i said that it's only not only in your mouth but you can feel the power you can smell it you can see that it's beautiful so it and it's also the environment so everything when combined is more than deletion is beyond deletion and when you know the story behind when you know the science science scientist bed after this menu so everything is perfect and this is the flower pollen you can eat this it's a flower pollen normally we won't check it but this one we is it organic organic lotus so she she's she's a put her heart effort to fight you know it is very difficult to fight organic lotus in thailand so normally flower flower is for it's just for show for decoration for each so it should be beautiful and persistent then they use a lot of chemical to to let it beautiful and stay longer so really fight a lot to to have organic and so that that brings up a great another question that i have for you guys you guys spend a lot of time trying to find organic food plant-based food that's organic do you guys grow a lot of that yourself or do you have you made special deals with farmers that are already growing organic things how how does that process work how did you do it because the organic movement is is something that's just still growing in in thailand so i could imagine that's a little bit difficult yeah this is our uh because we we like a contact for me when when we seek you know before we open the restaurant we we do a lot of research for like four or five years before then we have the people that we know we have a networking networking yeah and then we contact them to grow something for us and something that we can grow on our own because uh when you when you visit us when you visit us last year you see that all our our restaurant is a yeah it's like a herb garden herb garden let me show you uh let me share you about the business model that we i think we have to create the demand first we have to create the demand for the gap gap a gap a vegetable or gap fruits and the organic vegetable organic fruits and when we create the demand then there will be the supply and we believe that the farmers they they don't want to use chemical but seeing that they they don't know that if they don't use a chemical can they have the high productivity or can they sell that product in the right amount of money that they can earn they can feed themselves so if we pay the low like we call farm to farm we directly contract to the farmers as much as we can not not 100 but be focused more than 70 more than 70 percent of our products come from the telling from the farm and the reason that we don't do the farm ourselves because we don't we do not expert expert expert in that area so our low is to create the demand for that particular product and then we also support them that they can sell in the proper price so we cut down the median guide like we we cut down the channel so we buy from them the fair price basis we buy from them a bit cheaper than i would say that a bit cheaper than than the supermarket but total cost is more more higher because including transportation and logistics from their farm to us and the frequent frequently ordering process so we have the higher cost but by the way we also believe that one day in one day when we have enough quality everything going to be lean and we can get the better cost and we are working harder harder to get a higher demand and on the other hand we also talk to the farmer how to how they can improve their productivity so we are the agent we would say that we are the agency to bring them more demand and then increase their efficiency and could download because she's a woman you know ladies she loves the flowers she knows about how beautiful thing is and like like you see that as a man i never smelled the flower i never smelled but i i never feel feel good or feel much good you know but as a woman she has more sensitive tens or sensitive feelings for this kind of thing so it can be like a good combination for this one and let me let me uh both of us add more point that we also try to have more seasonal product because if you have us because we we try to live with the nature so we try to have a seasonal vegetable seasonal fruits then they're going to use less chemical or maybe they don't have to use a chemical because it is the right season for them and we do believe that the right season of the of the food or vegetable is also good for us at the at that season like for winter or for summer or for the rainy season it seems like a national national cure and it is our best also that we find uh the farmer or this network because we also have these ingredients at our home so we can have like a natural product good good ingredients for us also and our um uh we don't we don't have uh much profit in terms of money but we have like a a lot of profit in terms of healthy and happy happiness that's the game and we feel like uh you can we can say that we are the first one of the first restaurant in the world that do a lot of research and we have like dietician we have two branches and we have three dietician and we have one pharmacist and we also have um um two marketing we have uh supply sourcing team to to talk to the farmer to get sustainable supply chain and you also have the the cooperation with the university and also with the hospital so you're taking a lot of time to make sure that you're researching and you're looking out for the best test health of your consumers and your customers and that uh you're not only doing it just for them but you're doing it for the environment you're doing it for the long-term benefits because if we can get the benefits of the health we can get the benefits of good health and longevity of a life not only is that less insurance cost but it's less hospital costs it's less time spent away from your family away from helping uh community to build and and and bettering the world uh where we're if you're sick or if you don't live a ripe old age because you're living an unhealthy lifestyle those have a lot of effects uh costly effects on our society on our politics on uh on long-term sustainability to to be sustainable means to sustain yourself your company your family for multiple generations to be able to have raw goods and products to produce and to to have for a long term so I love that thinking and that thought process I have a real hard question for both of you and I want to want you to answer it separately and I don't want you to answer it for politics or for the company or for the world I want you to answer it for yourself and it's really the most difficult question it's the burning question WTF and it's not the swear word it's what's the future what the future what's the future and I want to know what what's the future for you and I I I imagine you're both thinking from your family together but I want it from each of you separately what's the future and okay okay you can you can translate for Dao that's fine no she asked me to to answer first okay yeah actually this this this has come from my okay I have been in business for many years right from 30 years and I feel like I believe that I have the competency myself in terms of business model so I'm thinking about some model that can be sustained first one and second one that I try to do the business that can solve solve the pain of the society that once I can solve the pain of the society it can be the sustainable business like pharmaceutical something like that but I want to pay more orative low that how to how to link to the natural natural as much as we can because we the more we are going up you know the more we getting old getting old and going up we are more closer thinking about the nature more the nature so to live with the nature is one of my my most favorite one so this is come up with the idea at a future we believe that the food the food is future for sure although you have the vitamin although you have the more concentrate concentrate powder for protein you have the protein power powder or you have vitamin powder it's still not a food it's still some it's still something like a modified modification and you will not know that you have the right portion or not whenever you do not know because you can eat it unlimited because you will not get full with the vitamin you know you can eat it as much as you can and it can collect into your body but for food you have enough when you have enough you say enough so this is the limit it's something like I am thinking so we come back with the food and the future that we want to have the less wrong not only in Thailand first one we have to have this wrong throughout the country now we have only two benches because we have to spend more time to get the right product for the right cost consumer the right ingredients and to make sure that the people understand other food and then to get it to all the world and then to all the country and then to all the world I my my dream my passion I want to have tonkka fasai in Thambu in your city that's great yeah I want to have tonkka fasai in Frankfurt in Munich in London in palace in Rome you know in in in New York in Los Angeles in Chicago because we believe that there's there's a demand there so so so and the weekend the weekend is a future because it's not just a food for your health it is a food for for the world not just for your health and the unfortunately that the the degree of the number of weekend customer in Thailand is not so high most of the weekend consumer are outside Thailand but since that the knowledge the wisdom we believe that Thailand has the best one of the best knowledge about the health of the food so we can say that we were born here we were born here and we made and we will grow up in the world I like that yeah I like the fact that you say you you want to solve some of the big problems of the future and that you really want to connect back to nature and connect not only yourself to nature but help others to connect back to nature not only as your you guys are are not that old but as you're getting older and that we naturally tend to want to connect back to nature I believe that that you will be able to reach that goal that you can spread it around the world I just want you to know that the biggest market that you can imagine is right there in Thailand so if you can put the true cost or the true value to food and the price the environmental cost the human cost the production cost the resource cost into food and produce healthy and sustainable food for people that is a medicine without being a pharmaceutical that there's natural products that are organic and have the right minerals and phytonutrients and are raw and living that that you can provide to people your market is enormous in Thailand for that transition and the way to do it is exactly what you what you mentioned in the beginning is to solve the problems that people are facing there and it's it's I know you you see veganism or organic as this kind of a trend it's not it's the normal it's the way our future should be and it's also the better business model and so when we make good healthy food the same cost as the junk food as the unhealthy food people will automatically go to the better choice especially when they see that transition and the the way to really do that is to use renewable energies non-finite resources organic regenerative practices and the way you produce food use these modern ways of doing that which also reduces the cost of good soul that drives your efficiencies up and has your return on investment much better so I know that is so possible and if you do it in a place like Thailand because Thailand is the kitchen of the world I guarantee like wildfire will spread around the world as well but now I need Tao to answer the question as well because I and it's not fair that you copy and say the same thing your husband did because I know usually it's hopefully it's aligned but sometimes it's different for every person okay for the future I want like Tonkaw Phasai is the role model is a idol for others to make business always like us and also for me as a depression depression uh I don't know one day or when we when I go away from this world but today I leave something that good and to give the world that you can do business like this it's good for everyone so like it's real that the the future in my in my it's go it's my goal and now I feel like I achieve my target because of you contact me again that you you want to put our song in your book so it will last longer when for the whole we can get more recognized in the world yeah of course you need to be recognized and I'm sorry that I I didn't contact you sooner I've been extremely busy and and but I've thought about you many times I've reviewed the pictures I've thought about the wonderful mean calm and and experience that I had and how you and I uh Dow we actually went out into um your your little what Germans call a hole for your little area in front of the the shop and we actually picked some really unique little um I guess they're called fire firecracker seeds and we put them on our hand and put a little bit of water on and and exploded just the beauty and and the fabulous things that you can learn about food and plants and by knowing other cultures and people to see what a big wide world we live in that there are so many options for us to do life differently to do it more healthy to do it for more benefit for people on planet and one that is just a better model for the future so I'm glad you guys are on board and I'm glad to have you here on the show today and thank you for answering me that that question you know the what's the future so anytime I really appreciate you guys I want you to you have a bunch more dishes I would like you to bring them out and for my listeners describe it because they will only be able to hear and not see the beautiful dishes you have but I would like to know why they're good what the benefits are what you have prepared there and then I want to go in after after we've gone through that I want to uh maybe ask you some questions there but afterwards I want to give you some questions of sustainable takeaways that you can give my audience of maybe how they could replicate or do things similar to you guys to see success themselves I think the biggest way of being successful in the world is by empowering your customers and your consumers to do exactly what you're doing for them themselves and that's not that they're going to go somewhere else or or find a business somewhere else but by educating them and empower them which Dow does in her videos and recordings not only do you gain a following but you gain people who are aligned with what you do and they they take and spread it around the world I it's very rare that they would take it and and steal it from you and and be successful but it actually is a way of spreading your business and spreading your knowledge that really comes back in a very Buddhist way it comes back in a positive way to to your life so but but first wait before you answer the key takeaways I want you to show me all the food I want you to show me all the food and explain it to me and so that my listeners will know you can even give us a little tour of your yeah perfect okay what what one is that that looks like okay so hello guys the audience if you guys come to Thailand and visit our restaurant and you tell me that you come from mark you know mark or you know us from mark then you will get something special discount for you that is like at the court if you say mark then we have great great so they can try some of these fabulous dishes for all the listeners if you go to Thailand and go close to Bangkok you can go to Phan Klaas Thai and give them the secret code mark that you saw the podcast they will give you a discount on some of this delicious food but they will also take good care and give you kind of the tour of Thailand this that you're seeing on the the bottom left of the screen in front of down and her husband is that you are cold pressed juices they they've been there a while waiting for the show and for us to do it but they're like little shot bottles of cold pressed juice and when i was there i had them fabulous flavors and now tell us more about those the way the how to to drink fruit always acceptable in big big portion it's easier to drink to have it like a drink and this is whole page whole page of fiber just 30 percent of fiber then you don't you don't gain too much fiber from drinking fruit you you feel like it's more easy to eat like a drink than eat like something like like like this is for easy that you can drink and in in this only one one color one four combination of fruit and herb in inside of this and uh every color let me send for the special benefit benefit for each part the this the yellow one is the main interior is a ginger and some pineapple is good for digesting this is uh the color one what's the red one the red one what do you think no no no for the benefit um for the digestive benefit for blood the heart yeah for your heart for the heart and and it has beat in it or what what makes it red the root beat root and tomato beat root tomato wow very nice and watermelon and watermelon wow yeah and everything every every fruit and herb that inside this we have to do the research that it's good for your heart it's good for this one good for your heart this one good for your heart like that it has like hoping it's like it has antioxidant that go to that go to your heart something like that so we just don't bring it together because it red so we bring it together because it's good for your heart great great and that one's good yeah for which one which part you'll get for your eyes yeah skin maybe eye skin hair i don't know yep yellow and orange is represent for beta carotene so beta carotene is go for your eyes and it's vitamin a and it's also for immune so it's for eye eye belly and this is green green one many many vegetables yeah has a lot of vitamin k in it probably it's uh what else is it good for digestion help uh for your brain brain power yeah some special vegetable that can help you release your pressure have more relaxing for your brain wow wow yeah and this for your skin because it's a lot of vitamin c great for collagen and it's another red one that's uh what does that have in it what's the red one for your skin have in it yeah so instead of you have a big glass of only a yellow color or a clear color so we we serve you in a small truck and if you come together for two person so you guys you guys can have every color in your one meal my goodness so my all my listeners are gonna have to make sure the minute the the lockdown and travel restrictions have been lifted uh go go and visit and do that but I also have a lot of fans and people in Thailand that still haven't gone and visited you guys and so now it's the opportunity to take a drive over and come and visit you say that mark sent you and you guys will get spoiled and get some good food what what are some of the other dishes can you describe some of the other dishes you have there is our way you can explain them yeah it's a burger but what what what is the burger part made out of mushrooms for hamburgers it's like we think about junk but here at the burger will not will not be junk food anymore because it's very healthy one and what's inside of it uh wow wow very nice a lot of salad and and tomatoes on that plant-based burger and then what what is the the the fries or chips next to that uh can be in instead of eating french fries but you have see this uh the whole grain it's a light light yeah it's better than french fries yeah wow that's nice that's very nice thank you so this is a more healthy burger in the world great and if I did we also have a many um herb type traditional herb that's good for your health and your digestive system good good good thank you for sharing I want something like tempeh tempeh you know tempeh if if you have uh if you eat tempeh so everyone will know tempeh it's very popular in among weekend person because it's just like tofu or what no it's a little bit more upgrade upgrading tofu to tempeh the part of the water from the soy but this you can you eat for the whole the whole thing for the whole side you can get flavor that's beautiful and then I noticed from the plate of that that there's a lot of vegetables but it has the stop light color so in the US they say um red yellow and green are the stop light colors and that's you know I'm seeing some kind of peppers, paprika, yellow vegetables there which is absolutely fabulous when I was in your shia in that dish that was beautiful looks very healthy now that that you're holding up and is the fresh tempeh that you make yourself I saw last time when I was there it's an upgrade from um tofu yeah it's a it's a great upgrade from tofu and if it's seasoned right if it's if it's warmed up right it's just absolutely fabulous so I'm glad this I'm glad to see that as well thank you so it can be also like a pre-verting right yeah so we don't we don't sell only food but we we also sell ingredients then you can make food food food at your home like we don't want only like a one night stand relationship but we want the long term we want the sustainable relationship so you can if you miss out you you can eat at our restaurant and when you go back to your home you can buy something from our restaurant you can do your own first it's and it's also good for your health and you can do good food for your family or something that is a kind of relation and you can consult us every time we have a live like a walk app so then you can add me add us like an official what's that we have facebook you can inbox and consult us how to how to cook this or any if even you don't be our customer you can consult us she loves she loves to talk to everyone she loves to share her knowledge you know you don't have to be our customer at at least you interest in your healthy manner or something that helps your health then you can call her you can contact her yeah i know it's that quite a bit and the other one is about the soy sauce you know normally the soy sauce you have the problem with your sodium high sodium this is a special one that we uh we have our friends that they work together it have a 70% network decrease of your not not only the ingredient but we also like seasoning in our in our that's wrong we use low sodium soy sauce so when we what what we use in our restaurant you can have it at your home so we have something like this to sell for you so it's like we open we share we it's made from our heart and you can when you come here you can then we what we we call our restaurant is not just restaurant but we are food care center like a business center you can go for many things and you come we have seasoning we have ingredients we have food and we have like an expert that come to talk to you every i love i i remember that distinctly so not you know not only do you have fabulous food you have the seasonings the ingredients the the sauces the drinks and that you also let people buy them take them away the the fabulous thing that you're a food care center a health center that people can can uh what's up you text you somehow message you call you up and ask for advice on how to cook on what to blend if you have certain ingredients if they need to get something i know you guys will refer them to other places so that's fabulous and thank you for telling me this uh because soy sauce is something that's used a lot in in asian so it's also very nice to to to use that what dish is that that you're holding up right there chippy and see by chippy and see by this is yeah and what was the other ingredient see see bright it's a traditional traditional land in in our country it's represent for omega three wow beautiful no normally omega omega three is good for your brain yeah yeah but and we always found it in salmon you know in in fish in tuna fish in tuna but when you eat land how you can buy omega three oh yeah yeah you can buy yeah it's really you can find it normally omega three will be uh it has to use the oil right to this kind this top it so so we we we use the thai way of the curly this is a more a bit oil a bit coconut oil it's good that i think they can distract out this so yeah omega three is this soap in oil so we bring this knowledge to create this this dish that you can get omega three eating i can definitely see that you guys have put numerous amounts of thought and effort and love and care into your dishes and how you do your sustainable supply chain and how you process and cook and i appreciate you taking the time to show me these dishes are there any other dishes that you want to touch upon or show me before we go to our questions about the sustainable takeaway okay it's okay i think that we we used to have many many press and maybe uh your audience can go to our space and we also have like a workshop or cooking class we teach you how to cook like this perfect everything we made then you you can get our knowledge and you can do at our home now we also have the workshop for grow the vegetable then you can have food vegetable at your own garden that's beautiful so people will get your website in the show notes i'll put in the description when we release the video your website where they can go that they know that they can get cooking classes and gardening classes how they can grow that all those tips i'll put in the show notes what what i'd like to do now is ask you our kind of last three important questions and they're more for our guests and listeners as a sustainable takeaway for them to give them advice and help along the future if there was one message that you could depart to our listeners that was a sustainable takeaway that would empower them to change their life or to change the way they eat what would that message be for for me and you know you have to love yourself you know in in the right way and then uh when you love yourself in the right way then you will know how to take care of yourself and then you have to love the world in the right way as well this this is the passion that we put our food that we we are not fully we are not fully vegetarian you know we are the flexible vegetarian we are the flexible vegetarian we also spend our life in in the normal way we see yeah we we try to have as much as we can to have the vegan food because of we we still we still uh cannot even we have our orders wrong but regarding to our the way of living and the convenience sometimes you know so so my word for my word that you have to love yourself in the proper way the proper way and with the smarter way and then you you know that how you can love the world in the proper way smarter way as well for me it's it's like something you you have to live on your own and independent if you are waiting for the for what vaccine you don't know when and you you don't know how effective effective that will come to your body but if you if you are uh use your body that if you do your body to be healthy and strong whatever the disease go to you then you can fight it by yourself not waiting for for the medicine or medicine if you have the the best medicine but you don't have good digestive system or you don't have a good food or you don't have don't have good good body then you cannot get the good thing from the that best medicine it won't work if you are not ready for them good to me I add my last word that to be the social entrepreneur it is it is not easy it is very very difficult so I want to share to the audience if my my experience or my work gonna be benefit to you guys that um uh you have to have first one you have to have a passion first the passion and the strong belief that uh what you are doing is we are good and not good for you and also good for the world good for the other this is a fundamental and uh and then you have to have the the proper business model like you have advice regarding to that how to have the better cost the proper cost compelling between the the vegan and non-vegan and then to encourage people to do it so you have to in order to sustain or in order to compete in the business world also you are the social entrepreneur is still in the business you still have to compete how to make it more competitive to make it more sustainable so you have to be able to find the right business model at the proper consumer in which it's very difficult once again you have to come back to your passion and your strong belief that it is the one that is good so you have to do that so it's so then you will not be demotivated by any uh uh by any difficulties that you have been facing all the time you know because you are doing something that it is not easy and the last one that i i want to uh i want to how to say i want to uh welcome or convince everyone that uh if you have a chance once in your life make one good thing for the world you know whatever whether it is small or the big one make one good thing for the world that is what we are trying to do what we are doing that's beautiful thank you so much i i agree with that and and even though you are still in line as a social entrepreneur you you you mentioned that you compete with other companies and businesses restaurants the way that i see both of you competing with them is with cooperation collaboration compassion and it's a different form of positive competition because if you are open you're transparent you give away your knowledge you you set it yourself you have people sometimes call you and consult you that you advise on food and how to cook and do things even if they don't buy from you even if they're not your customers that will always come back in a positive way but that's also the hospitality of the Thai people and there is a universal principle that that will always come back to benefit you and in that aspect you said do something good for the world right there you've done it you're already a success you're fulfilling your passion and you're doing that so i loved how you expressed that i still have two questions for both of you what should young innovators or people in your field of social entrepreneurship plant-based foods restaurants makers of products be thinking about if they are looking for ways to make a real impact in our world how about you young entrepreneur who is a social entrepreneur who is a plant-based be confident of your product plant-based is good for every stakeholder good for the world good for environment good for your health and good for your customer health so you are you are doing something good so you're confident to sell it confident to develop it more and more and don't don't think about that competitor no competitor because the more plant the more of plant-based and the more people eat something like this you will get the healthier world the better world so it's good hope go for vegan go for plant-based or go for like uh add more add more plant in your life now so my my point is that you have to have a first one you have to honest and attach talent why i i i talk about this one because not all vegan food is healthy food you know sometimes your vegan maybe too oily too salty or not not not not too fat doesn't eat less it's not enough it is good for the world in terms of the environmental but it might not be good for the people so you have to attach talent and honor to your consumer make your recipe to be real healthy then then the vegan food will be will be uh do not have any negative in the view of the consumer regarding to the the nutrition because i have heard uh some from some of my consumers that when sometimes they feel like it's too sweet it's too salty but when we explain them regarding to our recipe it is not too too too sweet but if you are diabetic it's not good for you but if you in terms of normal it is it is okay for you because we have to have like a tasty as well you know for food you need to have a tasty and healthy to come together optimize if it is too too healthy and you cannot eat it our we we we will not how say we will not be able to expand or to gather more people to be more healthy because we are in terms of prevention we are not the food for the for the sickness people of passion we have the special one but not in normal in the in a common one and then so my my my key was that you have to be honored and to be transparent to your to your customer and the last one that i want you to believe that there are a lot of knowledge and wisdom in the world about pan-based food that is a lot of good things so you can go and research or maybe you can go to the old research and the current research and even build up new research and then it can it can have we can we still have a lot of knowledge that we can be able to compete with with the the the normal food one no need to have every meal no need to eat every day but you think that it's good for you and eat it some someday some meal and you add more and more and more it's mean like your behavior is changing and it will be better and better yeah it's important to change those habits and those behaviors and it becomes very easy and and fulfilling and good i agree with that that i also know a lot of vegan people are plant-based people that uh they're very strict about it and uh some of them aren't very healthy because they don't have the diversity or the health aspects and what they're eating and they're eating repetitive things over and over again so i totally agree and it's very important that you have that knowledge and that experience and uh wisdom to look at everything to make sure that it's healthy that it's right that it's good the last question i have for both of you is um uh the last sustainable takeaway for my guests it is um what have you learned in your experience or in your journey your professional journey these last 10 years with uh Donclar Fasai that you would have loved to know from the beginning back in 2010 that you say boy i wish we would have known this back then that you could maybe depart to our listeners today if i can go back 10 years what what i will do that uh i will you know except the first one that i will have to do more research in terms of uh consumer behavior because uh this is something like inside out not outside in we we make it because we have the passion to do good for the world and we we just have to believe that the people will love it but when we are along the way that we are doing this business we have found a lot of misunderstanding a lot of uh unaccepted in terms of they don't believe in terms of nutrition they they don't believe that this will be the good food for them in gene right in the high amount of of the food like they don't believe that the pan base protein will be compatible to meat protein and it takes us more time to do that so if i can go back i will study more about the consumer behavior then we will have more cost more strategy to to educate and give the consumer more understanding and the second thing that uh we will have we we we we will open more less wrong because then you have more and more less wrong you can get more more more like uh awareness or you can also collaborate with each other more yeah and you have the scale so in the investment scale in terms of investment because we have a lot of high fee costs no we have a nutrition we have the marketing and we have put a lot of effort in terms of from from five to four so we don't have enough scale now so if we have enough scale then we can lower the price for the consumer and then we can also expand the number of the consumer if we are the cheaper and better this this is a thing that we we think that for my side as an investor and mister there are two things that i will i will go back to do that but i will not change the business model i will not change that i will not do this you know i will see that uh tonkara fasai is the right passion the right model the right vision for for us thank you yeah honestly i won't say that don't do this it's hard it's very hard head because you were dealing with a depression in that that one do you still do you still suffer or deal with that or has tonkara fasar helped you at all through this process to not be depressed to be excited to go to work to get up in the morning to do what you do yes okay so if uh again if if if i can turn back time i will tell myself that this uh i will change my behavior earlier because if the more early the more i i get healthy and bitter mind yeah yes so you wish it's almost you wish you would have started sooner not waited so long to to make the transition i agree um i haven't always been sustainable or been this i made the transition about uh 20 years ago but i that's exactly i'm the same way i wish i would have started sooner i wish i would have known sooner there was a point in time in my life where i weighed 350 american pounds i was very overweight i ate unhealthy i lived unhealthy i lived unsustainable and if somebody back then were to talk to me or tell me uh hey mark you're going to be the sustainable advocate in the future you're going to be a health nut in the future i says you're crazy yeah it's just not going to happen and the reason why is because i was desensitized i couldn't feel my own body i was suffering from all sorts of ailments and pains but i wasn't in a place in my life to feel it or there and it's been a transition over time to get to this place but the biggest thing that i say is man i wish i would have started sooner i wish i would have had a little bit more influence it's extremely hard but once you make that transition uh the light's going on you can never go back and you're like boy let's go moving forward and it's a much better way i really appreciate both of you and uh being on the show uh we're done i don't unless you have questions for me or anything else you'd like to add i think we're done and i'd like to to tell you goodbye but i want to give you one last opportunity if there's something you missed or didn't mention please say it now uh before we say goodbye remember us and tonka fah say as the visited model that you want to you want to do something like us so we will be very happy that what we have done for so so long and so far we we are more than welcome to assist you or consult us at any time if you want to do something like this we are more happy to share great thank you yep this we we want to be the small seat a small part in in the world in the world you know you mean tonka tonka is being like a small hand and gonna grow up in the in the in the future this is the name the the meaning of tonka in time perfect so we we want to be that part and one day when we grow up grow up to be the big tree we can do something like i just another question to my just something like i want to encourage all your audience that we help each other to to be small tree small tree and then we all going to become a forest together and then they were going to be going to be very beautiful for us to be thank you so very much you've already planted the seed in my life and i'll never forget you guys and now my listeners and everybody will know to come by give the secret word mark that you saw the show here and make sure to like uh inside ideas subscribe and i thank you very much and i hope we see each other very soon i really appreciate it thank thank you so much and have a wonderful day thank you good map bye


e a number of different advocates who represent diverse identities which has been something that UVM students have found supportive and so a number of years ago prior to taking on HopeWorks we had a single confidential on campus advocate as is proposed by the original bill and that didn't serve our campus well in fact our students asked to move away from that model that was specifically one of their demands during that time of protest because of not having as much availability and some students didn't connect well with that one particular individual and wanted more options so I think the other piece that's important so happy to hear about some of the proposed amendments that do make progress from the original proposed legislation but one concern remains with the advocate advocacy coordinator role and that is that it is specifically geared towards reporting parties we have an obligation as an institution to provide support for all members of our campus community and so if this position is providing support in a confidential it really can't be in a confidential way as was pointed out because of the crisis worker privilege and so we need to be very clear with our students what this position is what it is not if they share information with advocacy coordinator that is noticed to the institution we do need to act on that but we also need to provide that level of support to our respondents and to witnesses in any situation and so we actually have positions along these lines that sit in Emily's office and provide this level of support to all parties throughout the process and so we'd be really interested in working to make if there is legislation to working to make that language really clear and ensure that we are not creating a biased environment in that space and just you're working off of this submission correct we don't have that submission but based on what we have heard yes that what I submitted was what the council approved in December so we had the draft legislation that the council voted on but yes alright so the next section is did you have anything else to say on that the next section sorry I'm a general counsel so I'm an attorney for the institution but importantly I focus in the student affairs space in the compliance space, public safety space and I've been at EVAM for almost 14 years and so I have been through the full evolution of sexual misconduct reporting response on our campus since the 2011 Dear colleague letter from the US Department of Education so I've sort of rode the waves and I'm familiar not just with the legal landscape but with our operational capacity as well so that you will have us here today the third section is about MOUs with the network or with the networks affiliate organizations HopeWorks being one of them we're very proud of our relationship with HopeWorks we're also very proud of that relationship because we had the choice to enter it and it made good business sense we were able to negotiate those terms according to what worked well for us at HopeWorks and so we encourage any institution to consider that having an MOU absolutely have a relationship, engage in information sharing education about processes we really just feel like it's not a one size fits all approach if you will and so don't feel like there is a need to mandate an MOU to be in place I think that's really up to the campus culture what the needs are of that campus we do have confidential resources on our campus that are not from HopeWorks right we offer counseling and psychiatry services and other things we have a contract for services with HopeWorks to provide a certain number of on campus hours of their advocates they also because of the nature of their services and the fact that our campus community is part of Chittenden County our folks are eligible to use their hotline to use their off campus services et cetera as any member of the town would be so that was part of my first question and so I guess the second question is if you don't have an MOU but you have a contract how would an MOU change your current relationship with HopeWorks it likely would not other than that it would not be our choice to have that relationship amnesty so while we very much agree with an amnesty provision and UVM has its own amnesty provision we like ours better than for a couple of reasons the the bill as drafted raises a couple of logistical concerns that we see sometimes in these cases the first is when we have students who make cross complaints against each other so when one student accuses the other student of either sexual misconduct or relationship violence and the other student in the same scenario accuses the other student back of that same conduct the Title IX regs require that we can't pick aside about which one we investigate we have to investigate both and so the way UVM has our provision written doesn't preclude that but that's potentially an issue in the language as it's drafted here the other concern is that sometimes in these cases we don't for example in a relationship in a assault sometimes we don't have a clear understanding of the relationship between the two students whether they are in a dating relationship or not sometimes that's part of what we have to investigate and so when that relationship is unclear we add a charge under the general student code of conduct for an assault to make sure that if the investigation determines that there was not a dating relationship between the two that then there can be a finding that there was an assault even if that dating relationship didn't exist that's how we handle that so agree with the principle we have that principle in place for all types of conduct on our campus most frequently that comes up with if there's concerns about underage drinking we are not going to pursue an underage drinking charge we'd rather hear about the other concerning behavior that has occurred that happens with all types of student conduct on our campus not just sexual misconduct so absolutely agree with the concept it's really in the logistics and precise wording that we would have some concerns the next section is oh sorry we were to mark this up and be more precise and also address the cross complaint issue that was raised would you be in support of it this section with our work yes right we do it now so we're in support it's a matter of ensuring that the concerns of our campus that we have had experience with match what the requirement is so the next section is on annual awareness programming and training again we are in support of having annual awareness programming and training what this comes down to is this language feels very duplicative of many federal requirements that we are already subject to so there is a good amount of training required of our student body as well as our employees around these issues they're mandated by the campus sexual violence elimination act or the SAVE Act which was part of the VAWA reauthorization and so we offer primary prevention programming we offer continuing education we also expect as was referenced to have new Title IX regulations coming out in the coming months which very well could speak to these issues so our concern is not confusing the landscape if you will we are subject to requirements we have flexibility within those requirements to ensure that that programming is tailored to our campus community to our culture is relevant and so we would just seek to remove that section from this particular legislation so that folks have a clear path forward Section 6 I don't know Wendy if you want to speak to this it's about the existence of the council supportive to have a council I think the question continues to remain of what is the appropriate make up we want to make sure that all campuses are able to access this really important information the ability to do resource sharing as comprised right now and I'm sure others will speak to this UVM is represented the state colleges are represented we have a lot of independent colleges that right now have a representative that doesn't necessarily promote the information sharing to make sure all of those campuses are included we'd love to be able to expand on that point I'm sure Susan will speak to that real quick I'm sorry I didn't fully can we go back to section 5 because I wasn't I don't so you're not you're not in support of section 5 is what I we are not because while it is very similar to what's required at the federal level it is not exact and we would rather have one place to refer to of what our training requirements are simply to make it easier to administer understand what our obligations are we don't want to have those competing compliance obligations got it and what are are any of the main differences listed in one of the on this list let me rephrase the question what are the main differences between what's proposed versus what you're already doing there is not a lot of difference between what our campus is presently doing but that said the federal regulations allow more latitude for campuses to design it with respect to their campus population then some of the language that's contained in the proposed bill and so we feel like it's really important for campuses to be able to have that level of autonomy to make sure that what they are doing reflects their campus communities needs and I could go through and write red line exactly what the differences are between federal law and what's being proposed but I think the overarching concern is that we are doing this work we don't feel like additional regulation or additional mandates around that are necessary thank you thank you good afternoon for the record Susan Stitely with the association of Vermont Independent Colleges I haven't seen this latest draft and so some of what I was going to say I will skip over and some of what I say might not be as relevant because things have been changed with draft well I have yes yes so we admire what the council is doing and support their intentions and our colleges work hard to protect students from sexual harm although we support their intentions there are still parts of the bill and the legislation that we can't support we certainly support eliminating the campus sexual misconduct survey I just want to make a few comments about that that might just be relevant to information so 2022 Congress charged the department of education with coming up with a climate survey on sexual harm and the department of education will be charged with overseeing that survey and administering it every two years this is still a work in progress it hasn't happened yet but it is in the works so one of my concerns was why do this work at the state level when the federal level is happening or probably slowly but happening so I just wanted to point that out that that is happening there just a few words about the CLEARY Act which requires institutions to collect data on domestic violence dating violence stalking hate crimes and violence against women act offenses so the colleges collect that data and they are required to post it on their websites one of the concerns and I'll just mention this briefly with the one size fits all, you know we have some really small colleges in Vermont Center for Cartoon Studies has 30 students approximately, Sterling has 70 or 80 so when you collect data with specific information like that in a small institution students know who you're talking about we want that same situation with small public schools we have to collect certain data around test scores all that kind of thing and I don't know if we have a stand on it there's something that does not allow us I believe in the state I have to check with the agency St. James but some data is not collected because of confidentiality so that would have been one concern if we had continued with the use conduct survey one thing about Title IX I have heard recently of course it may be released next month it may not be early February it was sent to the office of budget management and they have 90 days to respond so if they take their full 90 days we're still looking at you know two and a half months before the roads are released I would like to talk again it sounds like there's some language changes on the advocacy coordinator so I'll just propose changes so some of what I might say might not be relevant but we what I had been reading has shall hire an advocacy coordinator and the US has a long labor history that hiring is based on the need is determined by an employer and the Supreme Court has constitutionalized the common law of employment by placing the freedom to contract within the liberties protected by the 5th and the 14th you know is allowing the parties that they should be free to choose their contracting partners and to agree to the terms of the contract without government restrictions as it was originally written the there was a mandate that we should hire an advocacy coordinator and dictated who that person should or should not be it dictated their roles and their job responsibilities so if that should stay in there our colleges are living in challenging times, financial times so we would ask that there be an appropriation if it's required to support an advocacy coordinator essentially that same principle of freedom of contract applies to an MOU even though technically that's not a contract depending on how it's written but we don't think the state should be I'm sorry before we get to the MOU I actually just wanted to throw a question to the lech council real quick Beth regarding the advocacy coordinators and the contracting is it unconstitutional to require this type of position unless you're going to ask me about Beth St. James Office of Legislative Council that's not the type of analysis I can just do fly unless you're going to ask me about Carson and Bacon but I can certainly look into it for you Beth I think I was going to talk about the MOU so we support working with advocacy groups and we do work with advocacy groups but we don't support requiring that we work with a specific advocacy group most of our colleges work with the members of the network already but what if a new organization appeared and we thought it was better then we would not be free to work with who we thought was best as far as the amnesty provision on section 4 we agree with UVM that it should probably be reworked and that it's really best if it's left up to the institutions you know each institution has different needs for example Norwich University may want to have their amnesty read a little differently compared to Sterling College and on section 5 the annual training again all the colleges already provide annual awareness training to students and to employees and if they needed guidance they would reach out to the network but mandating that the network provides the guidance I think is an overreach most colleges already have contracts with vendors to implement the trainings for students and employees so if this was required that they work with the network would we be required to break the contracts and again I think this violates the freedom to contract philosophy as far as section 6 I think it would be good and needed to redefine the role of the council and what is needed before I could support or not support that Thank you I'm wondering what would you say is the problem we're trying to solve with the changes that you lost before In large part in large part it was responding to a lot of testimony last year around allowing institutions of higher education to have the operational flexibility that they said that they needed Thank you very much Ready? Planned Parenthood although you may remember last year when we talked about this bill I was the one that came and talked to you about it from the network so I have been working on these issues in various capacities for many years and excited to come talk to you about it from the perspective of Planned Parenthood and the Vermont Action Fund so you may know as Planned Parenthood of Northern New England that is our C3 side that serves patients in our health centers and provides sexual and reproductive health care we also have Planned Parenthood Vermont Action Fund which is an independent not-for-profit organization which is our advocacy and political arm of Planned Parenthood of Northern New England and at the Action Fund we engage in educational and electoral activity including voter registration grassroots organizing and legislative advocacy and one of the big priorities of the Action Fund is supporting student organizing on college campuses across Vermont through what's called Planned Parenthood Generation Action also known as Gen Action has over 350 campus groups across the country and we have four active teams here in Vermont at Bennington, Middlebury, NBU Linden and UVM and the goal of Gen Action teams is to raise public awareness about reproductive health and rights educate young people about sexual health and create lasting change in their communities Gen Action teams in Vermont have led initiatives to bring sexual and reproductive health care education to campuses by organizing sexual health and wellness fairs tabling to bring resources to their students and hosting sex education trivia events they have also championed programs to bring safe sex supplies to their peers for free like in Bennington where students now have access to free and anonymous condoms, dental dance, pregnancy tests and emergency contraception delivered right to their dorm rooms so broadly speaking as an organization whose mission it is to advance access to sexual health care and defend reproductive rights we believe everyone should have the right to an education free from sexual harm and so we wholeheartedly support S120 as well as all of the suggested language changes that have been brought by the network and the intercollegiate council with one exception in section one which I'll talk about sexual harm is widely underreported in fact it is estimated that only 12% of campus sexual harm is ever reported to Title IX offices so as a result official Title IX data is an ineffective method to understand the true scope of this issue which leaves us without any clear data on how many students experience campus sexual harm in Vermont each year according to Know Your Nine which is a national advocacy organization they estimate about 19% of women 6% of men are assaulted during their years at college and these numbers are even higher for LGBTQ plus students students of color and students with disabilities we know from our experiences working directly with students across Vermont universities that sexual misconduct is pervasive at all of our schools in Vermont however without the data to back up what students are saying it's really difficult for us to demonstrate that to you all if you're not embedded in those college life with those kids and so it is really critical that you all in the Vermont legislature have real-time information from the student perspective on what they're experiencing how they're being supported or not and how they're handling these experiences at their school which is why we really strongly encourage you to consider leaving section one in which is the sexual misconduct campus climate survey this is mostly for that statewide consistency to help you all do your jobs most effectively if this statewide campus climate survey would provide the legislature with the data you need to make informed decisions about how best to support students and universities to navigate sexual misconduct prevention and support this data that would be collected through a survey would better support the state taking a data informed approach to evaluating which proactive and responsive measures are working or not working we know from talking with many students that they would really appreciate the opportunity to share their experiences of sexual harm to help ensure that their experience is not repeated and to promote positive changes on their campuses the process includes of rigorous informed consent which ensures that all students are aware of the risks and privacy concerns of sharing information in a survey and they can opt out of the process at any time under S 120 students will not be required to participate in any part of a climate survey process this survey will not create added harm student voice and experience are a critical part of the discourse on how campuses address sexual misconduct and a regulated statewide campus climate survey is the most effective and noninvasive way for them to do so and I will also just mention that a few years ago New Hampshire passed a similar provision and they have done a lot of research with folks at Dartmouth and have a really comprehensive system for how to do it in an effective and trauma informed way across the entire state that is very similar to ours moving on to section two and three students who experience sexual harms are more likely to misclass experience disruptions in their ability to produce assignments at the level they were previously capable of and even drop out entirely support systems are critical for the long-term management of the physical and mental impact of sexual harm currently the supports available to students who experience sexual harm varies widely depending on what institution they attend sections two and three would provide consistent support to all students in Vermont regardless of where they choose to study and would expand on campus supports to options outside of the federally regulated title nine office and I think this is a really key part of these sections particularly section two because the regulations and requirements of federal programs like title nine can change drastically based on our federal administrations even under the best of national circumstances the rules associated with title nine are often focused on legal processes and risks to the educational institution itself rather than focusing on the individual needs of a survivor with less than 12% of all campus sexual harm being reported to title nine offices students have made it very clear that it is not an effective or acceptable support system for them title nine offices cannot be the sole sexual harm support processes on our college campuses and based on what you've heard today I just want to also highlight that section three the reason that language names the network and the network associated programs is because they are the federally recognized domestic and sexual violence programs in the state and they are the only ones that provide these services so there would not be another organization there's no free market domestic and sexual violence services of which to contract from importantly this bill also recognizes and supports students who do want to pursue legal options through the title nine office in section four by better ensuring students can safely report their experiences without fear or incurring conduct violations currently some students may choose not to report their experiences because they are worried about secondary action or other ramifications institutions across Vermont have widely varying amnesty provisions and many are at the discretion of a particular administrator and so on some campuses students who experience sexual harm where alcohol or drug use may have been involved could risk expulsion or the loss of scholarship if they report their assault section four better ensures that post-secondary students in Vermont can safely report their assault and I will also just note having been doing this work for a while that this was part of the explicit charge of creating the intercollegiate council and the original legislation from this body this was explicitly mentioned as a remedy that needed to be an inequity that needed to be remedied and you know students need to have access to these potential supports and services across the whole spectrum we need to provide all of these different supports for them section five evidence based informed sexual education and prevention training like that required in this section five is critical to reducing the many sexual harm incidences on post-secondary campuses each year again this is a place where this is providing consistency across the state some universities do a really good job some need some additional support and the provisions found here in section five are common sense best practice that should be implemented across all of our schools so students are receiving that no matter where they go and I will note that Planned Parenthood Vermont Action Fund is happy to support the implementation of best practices in these efforts wherever as possible section six involves the continuation of the intercollegiate sexual harm prevention council as you've heard and these issues of sexual harm on our campuses are systemic and pervasive and they are going to require a multi-year coordinated response and support system and the council is really the most effective way for providing those essential services to coordinate share resources and develop statewide best practices sexual harm is an issue on all of our campuses big and small and it is a benefit to all of our post-secondary schools to have access to this council's shared knowledge and expertise so we wholeheartedly support the continuation of the council and its sustained funding and I will just close by saying that you have heard and probably will hear from other institutions that some of them are costly or unnecessary but let's be clear assault is costly and unnecessary sexual misconduct in any form can have lasting negative impacts on a survivor's mental and physical health 34% of college student survivors will experience PTSD as opposed to 9% of non-survivors well there are few cost estimates on the economic implications of sexual assault 2014 study found that the cost range from about $87,000 to $240,000 per rape and for student survivors costs can also include tutoring, lost tuition and accrued student loan interest if they take a leap of absence there is a significant problem of sexual harm happening on college campuses in our country including here in Vermont and our post-secondary schools must continue their job of addressing sexual misconduct and protecting the students who are in their care and their programs S120 is a necessary and tangible step toward making our schools a safer place for everyone to learn and grow we simply cannot afford not to enact these provisions to change the course of sexual misconduct on our campuses and we must act now to better support and educate Vermont's Rep. Rachel Sin Do you have this companion bill in House Judiciary? Please, questions? Do we have a copy? Anything else? Committee, what would you like to do? Senator? I mean I think the first thing I can see the cross complaint issue and then doing some word smithing there is section four and I think the question is still open as to whether or not we can require a private college to employ a certain a certain person to fulfill a certain role the rest of it seems more like it seems like things that are being done now which I appreciate and am very grateful for but as a policymaker not just looking at next year or two years down the road it's ten or fifteen years down the road and folks who are doing awesome work right now and the folks who are setting the policy on the campuses right now or sounds like they're doing good work they may not be there in ten or fifteen years and so I'm looking at the long end for this and I understand that people don't like being told what to do but that is part of our job when it comes to making policy so those are my initial take away from others one stand out from given the feedback and what's dropped in the bill is the council seems to be something that's unique to the state there's a lot of other federal mandates and such and things that they're already doing but the council seems to be able to stand out that's a unique ask perhaps, yeah that's the only woman on the committee and someone who went to college in the 1980s I feel very strongly about this bill I also, it's really the first time we've looked at it and I'd like to have a little bit of time to think about it thank you anything else anything else from any of our witnesses just want to say that in this realm and many others the network would be more than happy if there's any pieces that you'd like us to connect directly with stakeholders and see if we can come to additional agreement and come back to please do let us know and we'd be more than happy to work on that process I appreciate that and so I think working a little bit with Senator Sheen and maybe you and I and Beth and anybody else who wants to be involved after we hear more committee feedback next week we might get together and have a conversation see if we can move something in the next couple of weeks and this might be something also the committee on committees might give us a little extra time final piece of business, Senator Sheen do you want to let us know of your conversation with Senator Sears without libraries and firearms that would be great and we'll let St. James give some direction to you sit on the library oh that's right, the library and we'll let everyone go home since next week we are going to be busy, busy, busy so please that's going to go into a judiciary bill from the House and they can have it they can have it can you repeat the this is the firearms section of the library so the recommendation from Senator Judiciary is for us to yank it and the House will work on it in a House judiciary bill that is looking at other sensitive places okay sounds good to me sounds like sounds unanimous okay have a great weekend everybody thank you next week is going to be crazy so I know it's going to be crazy and that is the real stuff S23 can we bring that baby back bring that baby back