Hey everybody, welcome back to the next cast. I'm Matt and I'm Tyler. How is everybody doing? I am For before we move into what we did on Linux this week there have been questions about the live streaming of the podcast and The honest you got truth is that we have no clue what we're doing I mean, I don't know. I mean Tyler that doesn't really come as a surprise to you that we don't know. I Would hope people expect. That's what we're doing All right, we just have no clue what we're doing when it comes to streaming So as of right now the plan is to stream every other podcast It's not that streaming adds difficulty it but it does add time And it also requires us to actually you know be on time so This way it will at least lower expectations just a little bit and we can you know Work our way up to the point where maybe we stream every podcast But right now every other one and if we miss one we apologize, but we'll we'll we're working on it We're not professionals. We're half professionals And maybe half is being overly generous, I don't know Especially for me. I don't know about you about you, but I don't consider myself a pro Just not anything I watched a little bit of Gardner Bryant's the Linux gamers live stream this morning. He was editing one of his videos He does that from time to time and the way he edits videos make it look like a professionals editing view videos It's just he has all these key bindings memorized and stuff and like man. I need I want to be that guy when I throw up I Have that half the time I have so there's a key binding in Caden live and it's the letter Z For whatever reason that letter Z deletes like the first 10 seconds of a video Yeah, and I don't I mean I don't know I don't know what it's actually supposed to do but that's the end result is it deletes the first 10 seconds of the video and Because it's right next to X which I use all the time for you know, hey I'm always messing around in accidentally hitting the Z and That means that every once in a while. I'll get all the way to the end of the video I've done all the editing and getting out all the um's and aw's and ya knows out of there and I have to go back to the beginning to check to make sure that I haven't deleted Accidentally delete that first 10 seconds of the video because then I have to start all the way over again Or I have to try to line up, you know a new part of the thing. I'm sure there's easier ways to do I'm just too much of a dumbass to learn how to actually use Kate in life Anyways, I watched I was watching him. It's like always do this, but now that's a professional right there. Okay Anyways, Tyler Well, I guess what she say this is the Linux cache. We talked about Linux stuff. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah Tyler, what have you done this week in Linux? Good question Not almost anything at all Today is gonna be the day. I've been outside working like I didn't have much time to prep for this podcast Which is why I was a little bit late Matt knows I was ten bit late I was So I'm what I'm going to be doing in Linux is I'm gonna take this desktop apart So I can rewire it so I can have the front panel connectors actually working and I need to do some better cable management Slap my quadro card in here so I can pipe my the fire pro that I have into like a VM for Stuff that I want to do eventually But I'm also gonna be installing Actual just plan 9 inside of a VM because I don't know how many people know this but I Accepted a deal to spend a week in plan 9 and I have been I've been Using point nine front on this laptop here, and that's essentially all the computing stuff that I've been doing this week I spent a lot of time. I was a I was binge watching a show on Netflix and I took up considerable amount of my week Can you watch Netflix on plan 9? No, bro The internet doesn't even work on this thing When it comes to plan 9 everything plan 9 if you're if you're interested in minimalist operating systems You definitely need to check out plan 9 plan 9 is very interesting The way it makes use of your mouse is really cool but When it comes to hardware support plan 9 if you're running anything that's newer than Shit bro 15 years then it it just ain't ain't even with the odds that anything that's not ps2 It's gonna work on plan 9 is a zero it Modern hardware support on plan 9 does not exist however, there is this nifty little fork of plan 9 called 9 front which Their website is atrocious. I watched part of that stream those hilarious Yeah, their website is wow, but 9 front adds a lot of hardware support and so you should be able to get modern stuff working on it On my desktop it it actually boots, but the USB keyboard that I use doesn't for Some reason so I can't use it. I should rephrase that any any USB device that I try and boot off of this main like my main desktop Nothing happens won't work on my Dell laptop here the Man the kernel wouldn't even load it just wouldn't even not a kernel panic just nothing on this thing it boots up The Wi-Fi device in here should have support it doesn't so there's a no internet I can't get internet on plan 9 and that being said you can browse the web on plan 9 But with how bloated and modern though There's no JavaScript support like there's just none in plan 9 So I mean you can imagine you can knock off like you can imagine Instantly hundreds of websites just aren't even gonna load So it's a pretty unusable system when it comes to like modern stuff But if you want something to script that one thing about plan 9 like plumbing is really cool Like you can do some research into the plumbing on plan 9 very interesting It's a very in very well integrated system and the way it's meant to be used is very different very cool But when it comes to Linux, I haven't done much and Until Saturday the only thing that I'm gonna be doing Linux wise is using Linux as a bootloader in a plan 9 which is yay by the way Thank You Joshua for your patreon donation and my weekend plan 9 has definitely been eventful Thank You brother every time we talk about this first. Why still can't believe that happened Everyone's like live on live on TV and second. Well, you still should have asked for more money Like every time I come back like like $50 just wouldn't have been enough Speaking of asking for more money Dylan has offered he will most likely be giving me $300 So I spend a month in Windows 11 when it drops So I will most likely be spending a month in Windows 11 obviously for money because I wouldn't do it for free but We'll see how that goes Tyler's pimping himself out to use other operating system Hey man, I'm not opposed to making that dollar dollar and Oh god, that's hilarious. Um, okay All right, so what have you been up to? All right, so I God I've been for the last two weeks really trying to get artics Linux to work and I made a video about this. I'm not gonna go through and rehash everything, but I've tried multiple ISOs I've tried multiple ways of installing. I've only succeeded installing it twice once in the VM Once with XFC and then like DM screwed me over And you know Last night or I guess it was the night before last, you know, I just threw in the towel Now I was just I was done with it. So I made a video and Said signer I've now installed open suza on my hard drive that I use for reviews on this computer and it's great Open suza is fantastic The only downside I've noticed so far with open suza is that um, they're the mirrors that zipper uses Really slow. I mean just astonishingly slow and um You know, that's fine. I can put up with that I don't install enough software for that to be a real big thing The one thing that I find absolutely hilarious is is that if you know anything about the discover software center Which is what kde uses it's a it's atrocious On its best day like it's so bad It's easily the worst part of a kde plasma installed the the they're I mean I'm wrong. It's gotten better over the last couple years and you can tell they're working on it, but it's still bad Because the mirrors on open suza are so bad.   I don't know But yeah, the the mirrors on open suza are slow But other than that, I've actually really liked open suza at least up until yesterday when I installed one awesome window manager and then I did uh I got obs running And it showed that it was recording And it showed the preview in the preview pane So I went through and did a racing video You know for an awesome window manager and it was you know, gonna be another time last one that I kind of enjoy making And then you know, I saved it on to you know, one of the hard drives of my computer and went back into arco because that's where I wanted to edit it and I found out that the damn thing didn't record anything but the audio and I just I mean so mad I like Like I was just Seriously pissed off and I don't think that it has anything to do with open suza I think it has something to do with open with the with the package of Awesome window manager that they allow you to download It has some kind of dependency that just isn't there or maybe it's a Will be s problem.  So Yeah, I've had some very interesting time with linux The thing is so the way I have my computer set up is I have Let's say I have the mvme which is my main drive and that has arco on it And arco is going to stay there forever and ever and ever because it works Like everything I have everything here it works And I'm going to stay there until it stops working And I'm are you like I used to be a big hopper just like you are and I like how it hopped from place to place But now that I got arco working on this hard drive. I'm leaving it there. It's I'm not touching it That's why I installed that I actually bought a second So I also have two like big storage hard drives and another SSD that I store videos and stuff on but then I bought another ssd And I'm going to using that for the other hard drive other distros so I can try the distros So that's where I put open suza That that's been my experience with linux lately is just installing Stuff that doesn't like me because everybody everybody always says like artx is fine. You can get it installed but I For whatever reason things that are non-system D don't like this computer Like I tried void like everybody says void is really easy to install like I went through the install process I agree. It's easy to install if it succeeds And it didn't succeed for me and I don't Everyone's calling.  Well, I mean sure Uh, yeah, uh, totally agree but my But that that doesn't solve the rest of the issues Like the dumbass here can I can learn like I can read the documentation. I follow the instructions and it still doesn't work Okay, so yeah, that's that's been my experience with uh artx It got so bad that I thought my computer was broken Like I thought that that was the problem was at computer Like because I tried different usb sticks because I thought well, you know, these usb sticks are old, you know, they're I got like five of them for like 10 bucks at amazon. They're l cheapos So I go Maybe it's bad.  Oh, so you know screw. I'm going to open susan work fine. So yeah I hate linux Why why don't we do a podcast on windows man? Nothing ever goes wrong on windows, right? There you go There you go. You could get paid you could get paid To use windows for a month and suffer through it you know Yeah, but it wouldn't be I'd need more than three like I'm always I'm always looking for more money, man I'm not cheap But whatever tyler gets I have to have more. I'm sorry. That's just the way is See see hear that now everyone who's watching this just know if you need someone to do something for you cheap I'm the one to hit up and then if you just want to see matt suffer through something you can pay a premium And have him do it $375. I think is the goal for uh um gen two so Apparently, I'm not that expensive because I'm really I you know, I'm gonna get there right someday and I'm gonna really regret not sending them go higher Well, the funny part is is like I mean with as with as many people as we have like Collectively as a as a community There is definitely going to be just one of them who is like I've got paid. I got a bonus for Christmas I've got $2,000 extra $200 $8 that much and they'll just do it one time. So you'll hit that goal And have to spend a week in gen two. Oh, no, I did not say I was going to spend a week in gen two I said I would install gen two Uh, I don't know about that man. I think people complain about it You gotta install it and use it the goal has been clearly stated on patreon for like six months So it's been there. I have not changed it It's okay If I got the thing is though if I got it successfully installed and it was on hardware I went mind-spending probably some time in it.  We just won't talk about it I hope you have a really good cooling Or at least a glass for some kind of side panel on your computer, right tyler so the dust doesn't get in there and create a fire hazard Well, that's that's sort of the thing. It's funny about uh like running your system like that is Really in all honesty if you wanted to know for a fact that you have good air flow in your case and that it's actually clean Just do a gen two install and then compile firefox if everything went fine air intents weren't scary You're good. You're good, man. You there's nothing else that you can do with that machine.  It's a it's a ngxt h5 10 I think and it just has no flow on the top uh Whereas you have a ton of flow, but you know, I make fun of you because you have, you know, no panel But I mean people have open air builds like There are open air cases.  I'm late. Who gives shit? all right, anyways If you want to get in contact with us, you can do so at the linuxcast on twitter Uh, you can subscribe to all of our audio feeds and stuff like that at the linuxcast.org That just transfers you to our to our Anchor.fm page for now eventually there will be a website there, but what yada yada yada, whatever stop promising something That's never gonna happen, man Uh, can you contact us via email at email at the linuxcast.org? You can support us on patreon at patreon.com slash linuxcast I will thank all of our patrons at the end you can follow Tyler who goes by zany on the internet on youtube and on odyssey and you can also get um Follow him on his discord server Which you can find the link for in the video description all those links were in the video description because none of them are pretty And you can also subscribe to the linuxcast on twitter at youtube.com slash linuxcast Uh, we're like, I mean we just passed 4,700.   I I'm telling you man at least two hours long of him just I mean You'll know he's gonna go on a rant because he'll hit the button on his desk So it rises up so he because he needs to rant with his whole body So he moves around as he's ranting and just oh, it's pure and utter gold need to go go subscribe All right Now that I've done my shield link for the day it's time to move on to the news All right, so each and every week tyler and I search for news items and You'll notice something with both of these links that neither of them are news Um, not really so, uh, we had a hard time finding news links this week. So we chose something different So tyler, why don't you tell us what you found this week that you found interesting? Well, um, I came across this little article here and it's about how to install the Technically it is the latest but I think we're on like 14.8 or something like that But it's how to install the 5.14 kernel on ubuntu and linux mint And I think articles and sort of basic tutorials like this on upgrading your kernel on Ubuntu linux mint distributions like this are Great because a lot of the complaints that that I hear and personally have with um ubuntu and the stable distributions is it's it would be really nice to have a much later kernel a because I mean dude between 5.11 and 5.14 the Actual kernel itself has much much more support for things like this Dell laptop And so being able to update the kernel on those those particular distributions is Amazing and quite frankly is It helps a lot. So if you're having any issues or weird annoying things that You know, you can definitely live with but Try updating your kernel if you're running ubuntu try it most likely It's going to fix That weird annoying bug or whatever that you're having to deal with Try it out. Um, I did that on uh elementary os updated the kernel to something much newer and uh, it's Much nicer. Uh, it just it's nice. So If you haven't done this do it And then you don't necessarily have to thank me at all because I'm not the one who wrote the nice article telling you how to do it I'm just the one who pointed it out. Yeah It's really weird when you're on a distribution long enough for there to be a new kernel like it used to be I think I went years without seeing like a kernel like a true kernel update like a major version like oh I just said like dot releases or whatever But like a major release. I want years because I always hopped so much I was always installing a newer kernel when I you know eventually came back to an arch based distro Because I always came back to an arch based distro. Um, yeah, so that's uh, very interesting I don't think that I've ever compiled a kernel on my own though I can actually been successful like because With arch you just you know update and it does it for you So that can be really I know I will say one thing when it comes to compiling your own kernel It's normally not ever going to be as difficult as people make it out to be as long as you don't go through there and carve out support For everything you think you don't need Um, because a lot of the times a lot of the times people compiling their own kernel will just remove stuff that they think they don't need but they do Uh, and like that's the problem when compiling a lot of kernel. I Try to tell people this if you don't know what it is and you're not Positive that you know what it is don't remove support for just to don't That's what's going to cause a lot of a lot of heart I mean that's what a lot of people when it comes to installing gen 2 mess up on they do a proper gen 2 install But then the the kernel they compile for they remove support for stuff that they clearly like I mean you can remove support for acpi If you if you wanted to I don't know why you do it, but you can So I don't know it's just one of those things where try not to come remove stuff that you don't need Still even then compiling your own kernel is not as easy as just Installing a package on arch like No, no, no, no Arch is the lazy man's distro It's for me like I get new kernels. I don't have to do anything for them.  That's all you matters. All right My link for this week is also well, I mean it's kind of news So the news comes at the end of the article budgie or the guys behind budgie Are sick of gtk and the genom foundation So they have decided to move to enlightenment based like widgets and stuff like that so It'll be interesting to see what becomes a budgie because budgie has been based on gtk since its inception and It relies on the software stack of genom which is all made up of gtk three and four Applications, so it'll be interesting to see because they're going to have to go through and rewrite all those So it'll be very interesting if you want to read a very very good article From a developer who knows what he's talking about about the problems that they have with genom and their insistence on Doing things their own way You should definitely check out this article here. It's very very good and it's not it's not It's not a rage quit like it's not so inflammatory that you know His rage gets in the middle of his argument He has really good points here and he tries to do it in a polite and you know way to you know everything so Uh, it was really good. So I definitely go through and read that. I'm showing it on the screen now But you the link will be in the show notes as usual um, and like I said We've been talking about genom having problems with lack of customization for ages and the bottom line Of this article and everything we've said Is that the genom foundation like the developers behind genom and gtk and all those they don't care Like they don't care that their user base wants these things because they have a vision And their vision is to have a system that is locked down as possible because They want their vision to be the only way You can use your computer and if you're going to use you know, they don't care that there's other things They go they'll tell you that if you don't like it go use something else and that you know That's an attitude. I mean, I'm not saying it's a good or bad attitude. Whatever But that's definitely the way the genom foundation and the genom developers have been for Years even though they continually take out things that people like and do so for Weird reasons so instead of making their desktop environment faster By you know, actually making it good what they've done has gone through and Completely ripped out many many features in order to make it faster And developers who are listening to this, please take what we're saying to heart if you're going to Base your project off of something else You probably don't want to base it off of the project of developers who do not care what their community want Much less what other developers who are going to use their work What you need or what you want out of gtk or genom You probably shouldn't base your project off Another project that the developers openly blatantly don't give two shits what anyone thinks about what they want or should do So just say yeah, it'd be so nice because gtk has some good stuff in it Like it's a good solid library And stuff that has a lot of building blocks for applications that you know developers like to use It would be nice if somebody who's big enough ahead the resources to do so came along and fork it and And then truly made it a community project where people could actually contribute to it because People contribute from outside of the genom foundation and the main You know people contribute to genom and gtk and stuff But because the the people were in charge are so tight-fisted with it A lot of the improvements and stuff and the suggestions for making it better get completely rejected because this doesn't Line up with their vision of how they want genom and gtk though and this wouldn't be a big problem if this was uh You know whatever joe schmo's Building library or whatever if nobody used it the problem is is that The biggest distributions in our world Use genom boon to fedora, you know, you just name them right down the line I mean and it's not even the ones that are just based on genom is you know things like mate xfce Cinnamon they all use gtk and they're all reliant on this one small group of developers to do Whatever they want to do and if your distribution disagrees with that vision But you don't have the resources to transition to something that's not gtk or You don't want maybe you really like gtk and you know You don't want to continue to use it But you have things that you need to do you have to find ways of working around those limitations on your own For example adding a dark mode is not something That genom supports or gtk supports Anything any different distribution that shifts with the dark mode whether it's elementary or a boon to Those developers had to do that on their own and it is it is a hack because the genom foundation the gtk guys have gone Out of their way to make it as hard as possible to Institute of dark mode so That is I mean it's just the reality of it and it's this is why it matters so much that It's and why it's so important for when these developers have These experiences for them to be as loud as possible about it because it gets people talking about it and hopefully Eventually, maybe it will get distributions like a boon to to Maybe consider transitioning away from gtk and you know now personally I don't think that's ever gonna happen If they were going to choose kde they would have done it Back when they were switching away from unity I still think that they should have I mean I think they would have been so much happier But it's not as if kde and cute don't have their own problems with licenses and shit and nonsense like that So, I mean maybe there's not a perfect it'd be hilarious if at the end of the day The enlightenment stuff ended up being the solution because you know Enlightenment's I mean if you've ever used like the enlightenment desktop that thing.  It's it's it's a weird Desktop environment it feels like it just hot straight out of the early 2000s. Yeah, that's exactly what it feels like very The only Thing I'll say about it is that it's not skew morphic. It's very very flat So it you know it deals with the flat thing really well. Um It just would be really funny if though if those if the stuff behind enlightenment was The thing that ended up winning in the end because it's more open than anything else Even though it's been around for Ages and ages forever and I think what you said about um Enlightenment possibly being like the perfect is a good transition into like the main topic for today, which Is uh unless I'm wrong here. It's uh my distro is better than your distro I don't know like You might disagree with me here But like I think the problem that people perceive with linux where there's no too much choice is sort of the The rebuttal to well, there's not ever going to be a perfect distro There's there's not ever going to be the perfect solution because there's There's no way you can have a perfect solution when the people who are going to use it are not perfect Every single person has a different opinion Um on how stuff should be on how stuff should work I mean to be honest, there are plenty of people out there who love the fact that genomics locked down If you want to use your computer in a or you you do a certain task There's a set way that you do it and you don't deviate from it You just it your your work your task will get done as long as you follow the set way that you're supposed to finish that task And some people actually enjoy that a lot of us don't But I think that's why the whole Argument of there's going to be something perfect or fix all of the issues that we have Really isn't ever going to happen because there are going to be people who genuinely believe that genome and gtk Is just night and day better than katie while the same person who's using katie believes the same thing about katie You're never going to have everyone at be Or Right and using the same thing enjoying it the same way I don't I don't think that can ever happen Yeah So that is a good transition into the main topic. So There were there when I was thinking about that this there is many ways we could we could have you know meandered into this topic So, you know We could talk about the fierce loyalty that the gen two guys have for gen two And the fierce loyalty that the arch guys have for arch and The fierceness and possessiveness if they have towards their distribution that they'll actually fight each other over which one's better And You know God bless their souls those gen two guys. They are In the comments below right now saying this doesn't look like a gen two install and um First of all, you're right. This is not a gen to install good on you. You recognize that this isn't an install of any kind actually This is a podcast But you know Like I have Fierce loyalty to archal linux I love archal linux because it works really well on my computer And I've had so many problems with so many other distributions Lately just artics, but you know, I've had problems with other ones as well And there's a reason why I keep coming back to arco because it works for me But that being said I try To realize that That's for me. It's not for everybody. But also That in the end linux is flawed like it like Yes, right now my arco setup as I was talking about before we started recording Is Really good and it's working really well, but there are things on it right now that I would like to fix So every once in a while For whatever reason my keyboard will stop working And I thought it was the keyboard but I switched out the keyboard and it had you know It just stops working the other one started stopped working too. I don't know what it is It doesn't happen on any other distro. It's really weird. It doesn't happen very often So it's not that annoying. I put up with it. You know, just a matter of plugging unplugging and plugging back in works fine There's a like a every once in a while PICOM just crashes on me. I don't know why it doesn't happen very often. Maybe once a week. It's annoying but Something that I've come to realize as I've been doing long-term reviews and Short-term reviews and distro first looks and all this stuff is that there's not a single linux distribution out there That has no flaws. I mean every single one of them has Something wrong with it that just is going to piss me off And it doesn't matter which one I chose uh on ubuntu for whatever reason obs does not like recording things when it's not In focus like if it's not on on the right monitor and in focus it doesn't record anything else anywhere else It just freezes the video freezes That happens on several other distributions, too.  It just you know, it happens Linux is not a perfect operating system. I could go to windows. Um, Shutter, you know And discover that there are just as many flaws on windows as you know, I've ever had on You know linux because for one thing the fan curves on windows for my computer don't work like, um I don't mean and that's the thing like expecting perfection from things that are made by people who are not perfect like it I mean, there there's you're never going to find the perfect thing for everyone ever You'll find the thing that's perfect for you eventually. It's it's perfect for you. No problems But you're not ever If the thing is is everything's temporary like You might find I don't know like let's just say down the line you install debbie and and it's absolutely perfect There's no problems. What's everything just works. You don't have any bugs whatsoever A year from now they're going to push out some bs security update that is going to break something like Perfection in of itself is temporary. You won't have it for forever um I I know I mean Lewis would probably disagree with me here, but plan nine is by no stretch of the means perfect And the fact that you can't connect to the internet I think yeah, I think we can all agree that that uh, yeah not perfect Yeah But I mean that's the thing like you're For him. He absolutely loves plan nine couldn't get enough of it. He's integrated it into like how he works on his computer and like that's I mean, that's sort of what I'm getting at that you'll never find a perfect thing as As soon as I'm off of plan nine, I probably won't ever come back into it was it was nice checking it out But I'll probably never come back to it. It's not interesting Or it's not it's not that it's not interesting. It's that it's not usable for me but Everyone's different. He loves plan nine. He uses it all the time the the idea that you're going to find this perfect distro is just it's outrageous No, the thing though is is is it really worth getting into an argument or actually getting yourself upset Over whether or not someone else thinks that their distribution is better than yours I don't like that's the thing that I don't think a lot of people understand Like you have a choice in getting upset, you know, like something drops and hits your foot It hurts really bad You have a deliberate like mental choice at whether or not you're going to Suffer through that pain and then just move on through the day or let it affect The rest of your day being pissed off.  You're not really getting anywhere Like why waste your time? Whatever works for you works for you keep using it I don't know the the loyalty that people have in their distros is Uh, it's adorable, but it's also it kind of infuriating because And like I suffer from it too But at the end of the day It's all just linux. I mean seriously I'm using like kernel 5.14 point something or whatever You're probably using linux kernel 5.14. Whatever. It's literally the same shit It doesn't matter what package manager we have on top of it If you wanted to try hard if you like Pac-Man enough that you wanted to use it on Ubuntu you could Um, like I don't know why you'd want to but you could do so. I mean you could do it Um I've watched a video of somebody who did do it, you know, if you wanted to use pac-man on gentu Mental all has a video on how to do it, you know, so At the end of the day your Attachment to your distro Makes very little sense because your attachment really is just to uh, the aesthetics of it really the the the The superficial Parts on top that sit on top of the same thing we all use it's you know the package manager And really that's it because uh, you can use dwm on any distro you want Actually, here's a good here's a good way of breaking it down to people and and really highlighting just how ridiculous It is that you fight and argue over your distro. What cheese do you like? Like what's your favorite cheese? I'm an american guy american cheese american cheese. All right. My favorite is pepper jack Would you and I ever spend six hours arguing over which one's better dare you like pepper jack cheese?  I'm a real sleaze bag. I like pepper jack for one Here's here's the here's the crazy part You know right now in this conversation You're not going to convince me that american cheese is better because that's your preference I know that i'm not going to get convinced you that pepper jack is the best even though I like it Why would we spend six hours BSing around arguing degrading one another because of your what you literally like Especially so, you know, I like pepper jack cheese too And here's the thing six months from now your opinion might change Also, it doesn't matter at the end of the day because guess what every grocery store carries both So Whatever you want buy some of both put them in between two slices of bread. You got an amazing grilled cheese sandwich I don't actually know how well they'd combine, but it doesn't matter because you know what experiment Is the slice of life, but that's the thing is like Yes, I have a preference for arco linux, but you know I like a boom two two.    I learned a lot of lua in that hour like I'm not necessarily saying I really like lua. I think it has some really You know weird traits, but it's not the weirdest language I've ever Come across, you know, so it's it was really nice And I had a good time doing it and I can understand why people like using awesome window manager because it's basically dwm with a ton more features, you know, it's cool.  I'm just looking at you right now, man loves the i3 Like he will defend. I mean he literally made a video when I said bspwm was a little bit better Literally said a little bit better on The thumbnail and he made a video You know to argue against it, which is you know, I love the video. It was fantastic, but you know Just because I liked bspwm just a little bit better doesn't mean I hated i3 You know I i3 was my first time in manager. It will always hold up space my heart I use it at least once a week. I think it's great. It's not my window manager.  I mean that means I mean He's my friend. He can use whatever he wants to use, you know The fact that he can make i3 using i3 look like a professional is actually using i3 I mean that man knows really how to use i3 You want to learn how to use i3? Watch some of his videos and he'll make you feel very inferior about your abilities to use a tiley window manager But The point is you use what you like to use and you have to realize that other people get to use what they like to use too and Just because you like to use one thing doesn't mean you can't also like to use some other things So it's uh, the the fierce protectiveness that people have over their Their distros and their Window managers and their their desktop environments. I mean people they're there people out there I don't understand these people. I mean, this is the one group of people. I can't get you know my head around They love gnom. I like that's how you started out the conversation like they love Gnome like they literally Will live and die by the sword of gnom And they just love it I don't understand these people like I those are the people that Those are the people I could spend six hours arguing with because I have such a fierce hatred of gnom.  He he loves gnom You you're not like I I think the problem is is A lot of a lot of the people that we're talking about who have a problem with how much they like their distro or Or it creates a problem socially for them It these are the same type of people who really just need They need more interaction because they need they need to get out and get some sunlight for a little while Or from the backyard You know go go outside touch some grass, you know like just I mean really in all honesty if you if you're going to spend uh, the the prime majority Or the prime majority of your day are doing about Desktop environments with somebody you you probably don't need you need to just go outside and touch grass You probably need to go outside get naked and lay with some grass because smoke some grass That too, man Like good night because it's just it's not worth anything and at the end of the day You might as well just be arguing about what type of cheese you're like it it really doesn't matter um and and too I I think what what fervors a lot of the like The hatred and the like um the Outgoingness uh of attacking others uh who disagree with your opinion is I I think what it has to do with is people are worried that if a lot of other people Are interested and and are not interested in what you use or Whoever is having this argument is using they're worried that well If everybody starts let's just say you're a gnomelover and everybody loves i3 And you have arguments with people who are i3 lovers all day You probably get the idea that well people aren't good.  Okay, don't it just because a whole bunch of I mean if half the world Loved and I mean absolutely loved bsds and the whole the Majority of the world went over to using open bsd or just bsds in general Linux is still going to exist.  It's just I mean, there are only so many Desktop environments slash distros slash window manager slash whatever that you can be interested in I mean, I think distro watch has like 230 or 240 distros Half of those are going to be things like rebecca black os and uh ubuntu c, you know Yeah, you know and see here's the funny thing as dead as Hannah Montana linux is There there are people and I only know this because I was joking around I know people who still have it installed and use it today Like not as their daily driver, but they play around with it and use like It doesn't matter what you like man. It ain't going to disappear It really isn't it's fine. It might not be what the majority of people like you might get into an even deeper sub niche of people who like what you like, but Don't argue with people because you think your shit's going to go away. It ain't going to happen there is a rational argument for saying something might disappear because there have been many distributions that have been Abandoned or stopped being developed over the last How many every years they've just gone away because they weren't popular enough for the developers to have enough time that does happen, but the vast good chance is you know You having such fierce protective over it over your distro and trying to convince other things. That's not going to make such a Difference because at the end of the day And what this all boils down to Is that it doesn't matter if you spend six hours shouting at me about how awesome linux meant is I'm never going to change my mind.  It's going to make you run away screaming, you know But you know, it's not it's not going to change your mind You can there is no argument in any scenario where you can convince the other person in such an argument That their opinion is wrong You can't go you can't go up to joshua or any of our gentoo adorable followers who love gentoo and bleed Compiling their browsers, you know every day You're never going to change their mind that our arches better our boon too is better.   So the And they're never going to change your mind. So just Don't have the argument. It's just making sense, right? Uh, what we want to end on because we are running out of time Imagine that we we're at it. We're at an hour already Like we're at an hour Surprisingly not a record. Sometimes we're just starting the main topic at an hour. So we're reading good.  So everybody knows My opinion on linux mint. So I installed it on hardware and I used it for a week Didn't change my mind much on linux mint It did change my mind a little bit on cinnamon Cinnamon is actually a fairly good, you know, desktop environment kind of like it Uh, it reminds me a lot of xfc I don't know why you wouldn't just use xfc because I happen to like xfc a little bit better, but I used it And now at least I can say when somebody says well, why do you hate linux mint? Y'all you probably never use linux mint. Well, you know, I have it on video I did in fact install linux mint So my challenge you is if you hate something so much That you will get on the internet and get into forums and argument stuff Go install the thing you hate and spend some time with it Because the worst that's going to happen is you're going to have more ammunition for your argument because you may be Yeah, and you're going to have you're going to have much much much more solid footing in an argument As to why you don't like it because you have rational reasons, right? So go install something you hate today, uh and uh be miserable for next week and you can take me next week Yeah, so anyways, all right All right, so uh every week We do this thing called absolute picks of the week It still says absolute week in the the notion thing It's supposed to be pixel weak. It can literally be anything. It has to be an app. But uh, usually that's so Tyler You chose something today I'm not actually sure I found a link to so I can't actually show it on Thing because there's actually two things called Mitch for androids. So What is this thing you're talking about? Mitch is a little application that you can get I'm pretty sure I got it off after I might be able to get it off the aurora store as well Itch.io thing. Yep. It's just itch for androids and Absolutely love it. Um, if you like itch you like I don't know more indie style games Definitely check out Mitch for android. It's it's a great. It's a great android app for itch Absolutely fantastic. So I'm glad you said it still says apps of the week because mine Is an app 100% Yeah, so this looks interesting. Can you play any itch.io game? Well, I mean as long as it's made for android I thought I was gonna be like some cool like a streaming service for itch.io. That'd be really cool That would be um, but it it It if you haven't ever used I recommend just downloading and at least try it only because you'd be surprised at how many games there are for android on itch It's really nice. Really. It's a really nice app. I highly recommend that Cool. All right. So my app is called Let's see if it's called pansella and basically what this is is a notation app, so it's uh So if you've used flameshot Flameshot has some annotation stuff in it But that it's that is meant for taking screenshots and then you can add annotations afterwards this is for adding annotations pretty much to anything and It has it has a screenshot tool, but it also allows you to do a ton of other stuff I mean just a ton of other stuff has color picker Uh, it has uh like a laser pointer thing. It has a highlighter It just has a ton of stuff and it just sits on top of you know It just opens up up at the top of your screen and it's kind of meant for if you have like a touch screen device So you can actually use like a maybe a pencil or something like that If you if you're so high tech about it, but you could use your your mouse or whatever you wanted to I did it's actually Really really good and there's just a ton of stuff that you can do and you'll put shapes on stuff You can draw arrows You know basically skadoodle the whole thing if you wanted to do it with a pen And it's just great and it can be done on Literally anything you do and it's available Uh everywhere a debbing based arch based linux Windows macOS it's there. So it's really really cool for you an open source. It's on github. So Uh, definitely check that out. It's like I said, it was really really nice. Um And I I'm not much of a user of it. I just you know found it and used it for a little while Flamshot kind of does everything that I need to do in terms of you know annotation and stuff like that And it has all my key bindings and stuff for it. So it's not necessarily for me But I thought it was cool enough to share. So that's uh, that's pansella Really cool All right, man We did go over an hour. So that's like the fourth time in a row. We've went over an hour Technically this podcast, I don't know if anybody knows this but our original goal for this podcast was 45 minutes When we when we first down set down to uh, you know Did our negation negotiations for how long we wanted our podcast to be 45 minutes was the time Uh, and when martin was my co-host our Agreement was a half an hour There's no way we'd make it if our goal was a half an hour. Not even a chance. I don't think we have The the the talent between the two of us to not bullshit for at least I think I I gotta actually go check and see between you and I when since you and I have been doing this Which we've been doing this now since Uh, I'm gonna say may ish It's been a while so we've been going for quite a while. Uh, I don't think we've done a single one below 40 minutes. I think they've all been at least higher than that I'm I'm positive. I'd be surprised if we actually hit 45 minutes for just one of them I think there was one there that we had like was like a 42 minute podcast and I I Don't remember what this what the scenario is. I'm sure one of us had to be sick. Maybe one of us was dying or something Yeah, all right. Anyways That is it for us this week. I have no clue what's coming up next week because somebody hasn't put their thing in the document yet Come on Anyway, so we'll do something next week. I'm sure that is we do have a challenge coming up That'll either be an episode 60 Which is like four episodes or it'll be in episode 65 That's all going to have to depend on my hardware situation. I have a plan Uh, and because I'm the master of all depending on when Episodes are I get to choose when we actually do that pot that that challenge so We we will do it before episode 70, but it'll uh, it would be there 60 or 65. Anyway, so uh Before we go, I should take a moment to thank my current patrons If I can you know hit the button here devon chris east coast web gentu is fun too patrick L marcus megalon spend jackson. I have tool josh will leave steve a michel art center america camp j dog and the bsd is rock I think my patrons enjoy changing their names to things just to make me say them out loud Uh, and that's guaranteed that that's the reason why the gentu is fun too guy. I'm pretty sure that's peter. Um so, uh, yeah Be careful what you wish for because I will meme you like like Like I like I will meme it like I will get right into it. It's great. Uh, so gentu is fun too and uh, we'll see you next time boy


Was I supposed to be talking to the camera this whole time? No, no, no, you can talk to me and the camera. And Hank. Yes, the nice thing about, hi, Hank. I just want to meet Hank though. I haven't met Hank. I know. So I'm excited that this video somehow involves him. Yeah, he'll see it. Awesome. Other people might too. Oh, that part scares me. I'm scared about the comments, you know? Oh, they'll be nice. You know I'm a little scared about the comments. I don't want to overhype them, but in general, our people are nice. I wouldn't be able to do this video if you didn't have such great fans, because I would be too scared of the wrath of the comments. Good morning, Hank, it's Tuesday. I am joined by Hannah Marks, the director of The Turtles All the Way Down movie, and thank you, Hannah, for directing this movie. You'd only made one movie when you first interviewed to be the director. Hannah came in to this meeting with these producers and studio people, and she showed us what a thought spiral would look and feel like, and it was incredible. I feel like that was the first thing that you and I really agreed on, which was that her brain is the conflict of this movie, which we've really never seen before, and it's such a hard thing to tackle because it's invisible, right? It's not tangible. So what? We can talk about me directing you yesterday. Oh, God. So Hannah, what was it like directing me, John Green, the world's worst actor? It was Bliss. Total Bliss and joy. He was terrific. He needs to stop saying that he's a terrible actor. He's a great actor. Spoiler, he does squats in the movie. Literally squats. I mean, I better not do squats in the movie. I did squats in one take as a joke for you. No, that's gonna be in the final cut. Actually, I can't guarantee if it'll be in the final cut. It will be in the director's cut. Well, I am gonna, I'm gonna have one note for the studio. Okay. I joined TikTok just for John's account. But now you're all in. You're mostly getting dogs. Yeah. I have almost no dogs on my For You page. Well, can we even be friends then? My mom has really good advice for people. She said to not marry anyone unless they like beetles and dogs. That's good rule. What do you think about that? I think it's good. It reminds me of an important question, though. Oh no. Did I just set myself up for the beetles question? I mean, everybody's seen it already. But I forgot the bit. Is there a bit? Who is your favorite beetle? Post watching this new documentary that came out, called McCartney. Okay. Before that, John Lennon. So your favorite beetle used to be John. I think he was just maybe the most famous. Yeah. Not to take away from his talent. Sure. He's my favorite beetle. Oh, great. And then do you have a favorite color? Green. What is the beetle's bit? I still don't know. I think what you're confused about is that the bit is so bad that you can't believe that's the whole bit. But that is it. There is no second layer. I really like it. But do you want to know my real favorite color? Yeah. It's orange. And you know this. It's because that is the cover of the book has the orange spiral. And so then this is really silly. But for good luck whenever I was interviewing for the job, for turtles, I wore orange nail polish or an orange shirt. I know that's so silly, but it made me feel better. And the color palette of this movie, without giving anything away, carries some of that forward. Definitely. I think there's pops of orange and teal. Teal. Because those are the two colors of Aza and Daisy's cars, which I really, really liked. There are a million things that are amazing about having you direct the movie. But one of them is that all these little choices that we made, that Julie, my editor, and I made very consciously and carefully, to see those choices loved and cared for and expanded upon by you in all the choices that you've made around the movie has just been amazing. Oh, thank you. It's just because I love the book so much. I came into this being such a huge fan of the book. We've got to go. We've got to go. We've got to go. Oh my god. This is way too late. Goodbye. Say, Hank, I'll see you on Friday. Me? Yes. Hank, I'll see you on Friday. Will I actually? No. I don't know how this works.


Live from San Francisco, it's theCUBE. Covering Micron Insight 2019, brought to you by Micron. Welcome back to San Francisco, everybody. We're here at Pier 27, the sun is setting behind the buildings in San Francisco. You're watching theCUBE, the leader in live tech coverage. I'm Dave Vellante with my co-host, David Floyer. We've been here all day, covering Micron Insight 2019. Tom Evey is here as the Senior Vice President and General Manager of the Compute and Networking business unit at Micron. Tom, great to see you again. Great to see you. So you got Compute and Networking, two of the big three in your business unit. There you go. But we're going to talk about 3D Crosspoint today, but so anyway, you know. Absolutely. We're kind of bringing you outside to swim lane or maybe not, but tell us about your BU and what's been new, what's the update? Yeah, I mean, so we sell primarily memory today, DRAM, although in the future we see 3D Crosspoint as a great opportunity into the data center, you know, both traditional servers and the cloud players, PCs, graphics, and networking. Yeah, so you got some hard news today. Why don't we dig into that a little bit? We really haven't covered much of it, but why don't you take it? Okay, absolutely. Yeah, so I guess a couple things of interest, probably most directly as we announced our first 3D Crosspoint storage device. It's the highest performance SSD in the world and offers compared to other 3D Crosspoint-based solutions on the market, you know, anywhere from three and a half to five times the performance on a range of both sequential and random reads and writes, two and a half million IOPS, bandwidth read and write north of nine gigabytes a second. And also- So super fast. Super fast. Super fast and similar, you know, very positive comparisons up against NAND SSDs. Okay. And so we're excited about that. So where's the fit? What are the use cases? Who you're targeting with? Sure. Yeah, I mean, so I think, you know, one way to think about it is that anytime you introduce a new layer into the memory and storage hierarchy, you know, historically it was SRAM caches and then it was SSDs going in between DRAM and rotating media. And now this is 3D Crosspoint sitting in between DRAM and NAND. And the reason it is a benefit in terms of another layer is it's, you know, higher density and greater persistence than DRAM. It's greater performance and you know, it can cycle greater endurance than NAND. And when you do that, you do nibble away at either side of that layer. So in this case, it nibbles away a little bit from DRAM and a little bit from NAND, but it grows the overall pie and is the only player in the industry that provides DRAM 3 Crosspoint and NAND. We think that's a great opportunity. Add some color to the economics because it's more expensive than NAND, less expensive than DRAM, higher performance than traditional flash, lower performance, well under the performance of DRAM, so. Yeah, I mean, so again, I think the benefits, like I said, is it offers greater density and it offers greater persistence than DRAM. And so that's the advantage there. And it offers much greater performance on things like bandwidth and IOPS and much greater endurance than NAND. And certainly our preliminary results are in applications like databases, in certain AI and machine learning workloads, and in workloads that benefit from low latency. I think financial service markets is one specific example. We think there's a good value brought there. So a Colombo question if I may. Yeah. So SAP would say, no, throw everything in memory in HANA. And of course, selling DRAM and say, okay, that's okay with us. So you mentioned databases. How should we think about this relative to in-memory databases? Sure, I mean, I think that if you can afford it, and of course it will be more expensive, we would love to provide our highest density DRAM modules on the highest end server platforms. And you mentioned HANA database into terabytes and terabytes of DRAM. That would be great. That is not free. If we're free, you'd do it. Right, exactly. And so if you have the need for that performance, that's what you will do. But we see there's an attractive range of workloads that cannot afford the cost of that very high end solution. And so this affords something that gives good benefits and database performance, but at a slightly more economic solution. I know you want to jump in, go. Oh yeah, sure. If you will compare yourself with Intel, which has obviously got the same raw technology. They have gone for consumer type, obtained SSDs, but they put all their effort into combining it with a DV, or not at all, NVIDIAm and have combined that with the processor itself and made a combination which is very good for storage controllers. Yeah. So the question, and you've done very well in the SSD, much, much more than they have. Are you looking to go into that, NVIDIM, because obviously you don't have the processors themselves to manage? Yeah, I mean, to be clear, what we're offering today is a product that runs on standard PCIe NVMe and while there may in the future be opportunities to further enhance performance with software optimization, it runs out of the box without any software optimization. But I do think that there are opportunities both to use this technology in more of a storage type of configuration and looking forward, there are also opportunities to use it in a memory configuration. What we're announcing today is our first storage product and with regard to additional products, stay tuned. So if I think about the storage hierarchy, the classical pyramid and forget about it, let's focus on the persistent end of that spectrum. This is at the tip, right? Is that how we should think about this or not necessarily? I mean, it is at the storage tip, but I think we tend to think a little bit more holistically that that triangle extends from DRAM traditionally to SSDs to rotating and we're now inserting a 3D cross-point-based layer in between and so from that perspective, it is the tip of the storage triangle, but it does sit below DRAM in the overall. And the reason for my question was sort of a loaded question because if we eliminate the DRAM piece, now you've got that tip. So NAND benefits from the volume of consumer, thoughts on how you get volume with 3D cross-point? Sure, again, I think there are, at a lower performance point, you can get higher density, more cost-effective storage solutions with NAND. And we certainly don't see NAND going away. We're quite bullish on that. Yeah, you like NAND. We announced both a SATA and NVMe 96-layer TLC NAND-based products today, so that continues to be a major area of investment. But from a value and opportunity point of view, we see a better opportunity applying this technology, again into this layer in the server or data center hierarchy, as opposed to what one might be able to do in the consumer space. And your OEMs are saying bring it on, right? I mean, they want this, we're talking about the server manufacturers, data center, cloud guys. Yeah, I think we're in limited sampling with select customers. So more to say about our go-to-market, at a future date. But certainly we see that there is, we're bullish about the opportunity of the marketplace. So just asking a question about volume again. Sure. If you look at the marketplace, it's, ARM has been incredibly successful and has driven a huge amount of memory and NAND for yourself. And that seems to be where the volume is growing much faster than most other platforms. Are you looking to use this technology, 3D cross-point, as in that environment? As even memory, as in DRAM itself, as memory itself, at a much lower level. I'm just thinking of ways that you could increase volume. Sure. I mean, so to be, just to be clear, you're talking about what's driven overwhelmingly by the cell phone market, obviously it's proliferating into IoT and automotive and lots of others, yes. Again, our view of the first and best opportunity is in the data center, which is still today an x86 dominated world. I would say, in terms of opportunities, like I said, for memory-based solutions in the data center and for how we apply this in other areas, stay tuned. Let's talk about this forward next acquisition. So it's really interesting to see the micron making moves in AI. Why the acquisition? Tell us more about it. Sure, yeah, so it's a small startup, handful of players, although fairly experienced, as I believe Sanjay mentioned, they're on their fifth generation of their architecture. And so what we've acquired, it's both a hardware architecture that currently runs on FPGAs, along with the supporting software that supports all the common frameworks, the TensorFlow, the PyTorches, as well as the range of the network architectures that are necessary to support, again, primarily on the inference side, we see the best opportunities in edge inferencing. But in terms of what's behind the acquisition, first of all, there is an explosion of opportunity in machine learning. We see that in particular on edge inferencing. And we feel that in order for us to continue to optimize and develop the best solutions, both overall of a deep learning platform that includes memories, but also just memories that are best optimized, we need to understand the workloads, we need to understand the best solutions. And so that's why we made this acquisition, we integrated it with our team that has for some time developed FPGA-based add-in cards, and that's actually the basis of the technology for some of the dialogue that you saw, for example, with OHSU. When you talk about edge inferencing, we're envisioning this sort of massively scalable, distributed system that of course comprises edge. You want to bring the compute to the data wherever the data lives, obviously you don't want to start moving data around. Now you're bringing AI to that data, which is data, AI, cloud, all these superpowers coming together. So our premise is that the inferencing is going to be done at the edge, much of the data, if not most of the data is going to stay at the edge. And so this is what you're enabling through that integration. So it's a heterogeneous combination of technologies. Correct. I mean, to use the extreme example that we talked about on stage earlier, CERN has this massive amount of information that comes from the, I think it's 40 million collisions a second or more. I may have my figures wrong. And you cannot possibly store, nor do you want to transmit that data. And so you have to be applying AI to figure out what the good stuff is. And in the stream itself. Exactly, and that solution exists in a myriad of applications. The very simplistic one, you're not going to send the picture of who's at your front door. To a core data center to figure out if it's somebody in your family. You're going to want to be doing that, maybe not in the camera, but certainly a lot closer. Because the network simply will not, can't handle the capacity. All right, we got to go. But last word, what are the takeaways from today? What do you want our audience to remember from this event? Well, I think it's just, we continue to build on our memory and storage base to move up the stack and add values in a way that may be stored subsystems like our NAND SSD and 3D crosspoint that go a little further up the stack in terms of our gaining greater expertise in machine learning solutions or the example with Authentia of providing a broader solution, including key management for how we secure the billions of devices that are going to be at the edge. Touching all the bases, Tom. All right, congratulations on all the hard work and it was great to see you again. Thanks for coming on. Likewise, Dave and Dave. And keep it right there, but it will be back to wrap Micron Insight 2019 right after this short break from San Francisco. You're watching theCUBE.


the Cube. At Big Data SV 2014 is brought to you by headline sponsors WAN Disco. We make Hadoop invincible and Actian accelerating Big Data 2.0. Welcome back. Jeff Frick here at the Cube. We're at Big Data Silicon Valley 2014. Santa Clara, California is just across from the Santa Clara Convention Center and the Stratocons that's going on. We're over at the Hilton in the Yosemite Room. If you're close by, we invite you to stop by, take a look at the Cube, take a visit, and we're happy to always see our friends come on by. We are joined in our next segment by Mark Taranzoni, the CEO at Squirrel, Cube alumni. Mark, welcome back. Thanks, Jeff. Thanks for having me. So you just came over from Stratocon. What's kind of the vibe over there? Yeah, it's a good crew, a combination of biz-deb, but a lot of end customers and a lot of good sessions too. We had a talk yesterday that was very well attended also by our CTO. Awesome. So let's just jump in. We've had Squirrel on a number of times. Sure. Why don't you give us just kind of a quick update on the company? Sure. So we finished off 2013, had a plan on customers, had a plan on bookings, doubled the staff, moved the offices, closed the series A. So it was an exciting year for Squirrel, for sure. And we're not pausing. We're stepping right into 2014 with still some pretty big lofty goals ahead of us. Now, those are great. So those are all great business metrics, which is kind of another indicator where the state of this whole thing is, you weren't talking about speeds and feeds or anything but really business metrics and adoption in the area with customers. We've got great technology. There's no question about it, but technology, from my perspective, is really a basis for solving problems that customers have, and that's what we're really attempting to do. So we targeted some very specific verticals, banking and financing, healthcare and telecommunications, and we were able to penetrate all those verticals in 2013. So we talked a little bit before the lights came on in terms of some of the customer stories that potentially you could or couldn't share, and I know you guys really spun out of NSA, so it's some heavy lifting technology and stuff that's off to kind of kept under the covers. But I still wonder, without naming specific customers, if you can get into some of the use cases where people are able to do things before that they just couldn't do before or do it so much better? Yeah, absolutely. I'll give a couple examples of that. So we have a number of customers that are looking to put together a very secure data store. One of our major claims to fans and differentiators is our security modeling that we've built around, not only a cumulative, it's the open source project that's a foundation of our technology, but a lot of the tech that Squirrel has put together to enhance that security model. So a number of our customers are looking to really to manage their entitlement process and they have very complex security rules and requirements. We're seeing a transition from role-based security where it was really aligned to who the user is and then mapping that user to what access rights they have to more of an attribute-based access control, where it's not only who the user is, what location are they logging in from? Are they at their home office or are they in the office? What time of day is it? Is it a remote site? And those attributes now dictate what security policies are aligned to those people. So it's becoming much more complex and we're really seeing, we really feel like we're the leaders in that from an information management standpoint and a lot of our customers are starting to roll out products based on those requirements. That's interesting. So let's dig down a little deeper on the attribution. Is it because the same person has different rights if they're sitting at their home computer or working off their mobile or is it because it's really more of a check and balance is to get more attributes to verify who they are and what they really do have? I think it's a combination of both, Jeff, but in some cases that, and I'll use an example, you know, maybe in the financial services market, some trades just cannot be placed from a broker when they're outside of the office versus inside the office. So they'll log in from their home computer, there's certain things that they can't do that they're able to do when they're in the office. So that's kind of an example of a fine services aspect of it. There's other cases in health care where if they're accessing, you know, for remote location, you know, personalized health records, then, you know, they really can't access them from those places versus inside the firewall. Interesting. So, yeah, starting to see more and more of that for sure. And what's kind of the driver behind that? Is it the regs? Or is it the bring your own device? Or is it just because now they can? We had a guest on earlier talking about, wow, what if you could do these things? How would you look at the world differently? Or is it really just because they can now they do? I think it's a combination. The there's enabling technology, for sure. Regulations are getting more stringent. I think, you know, some of the news stories we've all seen and read about where, you know, personal information is being, you know, mishandled or misused, creating a lot of concern in companies and in, they're trying to figure out better ways to manage that and control that. Yeah, interesting. So I wonder if you can talk about kind of what some of the future challenges are that you guys are looking to take down? What are some of the next hills that you're you got your eye on? Absolutely. So, you know, we, we think we've locked down the security aspect of it. And we're really a building an enterprise ready, you know, no sequel data store that sits on a dupe. And we feel that we have enough traction market with that story and that solution. But customers want more, right? Okay, great. I have all my data in one place, and it's secure. I want to be able to do things with that when we do able to do things. So we were we're now starting to see a movement towards this operationally analytics.  But I also want to run some analytics on top of it. So we've built in some of those analytics capabilities, I think we'll still will certainly through this year grow those capabilities. We've got full tech search capabilities, we've got graph search capabilities, we're building in some graph based analytics, which are very unique and differentiated. Customers are very interested in understanding, you know, what entities are in their data and what are the relationships and those relationships are really, you know, best suited to understand in a graph model. And it gets pretty complex if we go multiple hops and multiple levels in those relationships. So those are some of the things that we're working on today. And, you know, we've got a very hefty roadmap. I've I'm making a lot of investments in the engineering team. So we've I've got some announcements over the next 30 days, we've brought in some some some more senior talent that are going to help us help us grow the technology over the next year. So stay tuned for that. I'd love to be able to talk about it today, but we're not ready to have a break. Come on, we love breaking news on the cubes.  We have a lot of committers and contributors. We're, we're working on co-sponsoring an Accumulo event and would certainly love to have the cube there as well. Excellent. And then we've we've targeted June of this year.  Right. Well, and it's an interesting use case where you've got an open source kind of core, and yet you guys are super high security, you have the whole NSA roots. Talk a little bit about because that seems contradictory from the outside looking in and how you can manage both to have an open source core as well as having really high security application. Yeah. Well, so the the core product was developed by the NSA was kept internal for a long time. The value of having that open core for us is that, you know, it's been proven it's been running in a, you know, a pretty mission critical environment within the NSA. And, you know, I certainly don't know how they're using it. And most people, if you told me, you'd have to keep me. Exactly. Don't tell me anything. But I think one of the things we do know is that, you know, there, there's a tremendous amount of data in their back office, and they're managing things in a real time way. And this technology has been been proven to scale pretty, pretty large and certainly greater than most things out in the marketplace. So we have that ability to take that open core. And we've built a lot of tooling around that to make it usable in the enterprise. Right. So those are those are the, you know, things that we've built today. And we want to extend those capabilities in an analytic way. And and actually into solutions that we can drop in that customers can utilize to solve problems, you know, without a lot of heavy lifting.  But I know one of the big ones is volume. And I know that you guys have some special capabilities around high volume ingest. I wonder if you could speak a little bit about that capability one and two, why that's a value and how people are taking that that capability and putting it to good use. Yeah, absolutely. So, you know, our ingest rates are this has been some statistics put out there, but our ingest rates are much greater than most products out in the marketplace. You know, so we're able to almost keep up in in stream data into the system in real time way. And I think that that really is based on the technology around accumulo and the way they built it to be able to massively ingest lots of different data, multi structured, semi structured, unstructured data feeds. And then not only in some of the technology that squirrels built is to be able to index that on the fly as it comes in. So it's available to the application real time as it comes, it streams into the system. It's a unique capability. It's certainly hard to do. We also apply these security labels on the data as it's being ingested. So, you know, we've got those security model applied to the data as it comes into the system and becomes available to the application of real time. So there are a number of large customers in, you know, telecom arenas is probably a good area for that that the amount of data that they collect in from a log perspective is massive. And it's happening all day, every day in real time. And they need to be able to store that information in a place that they can react to some, you know, network outages or any particular anomalies that are happening on the network in where we think we have a great solution for that. Right. But then you always move to your next point of failure, right? So now if you've got a super rapid ingest at night at the indexing, it's not going to be able to do something with it or else you're just building up a big store. Right. Right. So, yeah, and those that those become those real time applications on top of the on top of the data store. So, you know, we've built a very rich API on top of the system. We allow programmers to develop on Java, Ruby on Rails, Python, people who roll apps out very rapidly. And yes, and it's all about, you know, what type of insights the customer is looking for, what problems they're solving. So, you know, we have a number of cases where, you know, customers are building their own applications. They're able to roll them out very rapidly. And one of the reasons they're able to do that is because they don't have to worry about the security model. We've basically taken the security model, applied it to the vault. We've integrated to all their security systems, all their access control systems, all their policy engines, all their key management systems from an encryption standpoint. And we give them an auditing capability that can tie into the compliance modules. So, once you've established a model that you can apply the security to the vault, the development of those applications become much more rapid. Because you're not worried about that very, you know, complicated security model and what regulations may require to change it in the future. Hey, Mark, just wanted to ask you a few questions around industry landscape. You guys are out there. You're grinding away as a startup, always trying to innovate.  And at Hadoop Summit, we saw each other last at the team. We saw them again last night at the Cube Party. A lot's going on. What's changed in your mind?  Are these real problems being solved? What's changed since Hadoop Summit last year to now in your world? Yeah, definitely. I think this year, I mean, a lot of people are figuring out in the last couple of years what their big data strategy is, you know, and what tools they're going to use to bring all this data together in one place. I really believe this year, and in some case into next year, is going to be all about value of that data. Creating use cases that solve real problems in real time and in a lot of cases, create monetary value. We've got another interesting use case in the medical field. Actually, I can talk about this one because we did an announcement with the company. The company's called Med Year. They're a private health exchange startup. And with some of the regulations out with the Affordable Care Act, as we all know, we can now shop for our own health care. We can pick, you know, different providers and we have the freedom of choice of who we want to use. One of the problems associated with that is how do I get my health records, you know, together in a place where I can utilize them and move them around to whoever I need to? Well, this company, Med Year, has created an application, a cloud-based application on top of our data store, where they're basically allowing their customers to store personal health records in this system and be able to parse it out to whoever, whatever providers they want to. So it's a, you know, some of these, they didn't exist because the regulations didn't allow for them. And the technology wouldn't allow for the security applications associated with them. Yeah, you know, one of the things I like about your company, the squirrel guys, is you guys have one of the smartest teams I've seen in the business. You guys, certainly on the IQ depth chart is pretty deep. So it's good to see what you're working on. And so I got to ask you, what are some of the things that you're working on that are really hard problems that you're solving with the team? Obviously, it's like shooting fish in the barrel. It's a lot of hard problems to go after. But in particular, you guys have a good team and, you know, tend to be a good barometer, it might be, you know, some of the cutting edge issues that the large customers want to solve. What are some of those hardest examples that you're just going after? So, I think, you know, we talk a lot about the security. I think we've kind of baked that model down. But now it's, you know, you want to apply that security into almost anything you do. So if we're including analytics, well, that security model has to be applied to the analytic layer, has to be applied to the indexing layer. There's a lot of complications associated with that. But the good news is that was really the forefront of the architecture that we developed from the beginning. So we've built a lot of that implementation in and, you know, we're happy to say that it works and I think the challenge of the future will be around increasing the analytic capabilities. You know, some of the graph stuff that we're doing I think is going to be, you know, absolutely on the forefront of technology. I think, you know, the speeds that we're trying to accomplish it at and the performance factors that we're looking at are going to be, you know, we've got lofty goals in that area, so there will be challenges. But I think the performance, you're talking about the graph and database on the performance.  We have a meal coming on from Neo Technology, going back to, I mean, 2007, he and I chatted it. At the time, graph databases was something like that, what? But now, essentially, distributed networks is graph. Right. So that's a really, really key area to develop on what things are happening in that world that you can highlight for the folks who might not be following deep into the trenches of some of the data issues around, you know, the different database architectures that you guys are attacking. Yeah. So, you know, I think there's a couple of things that are going to be interesting, right? So if you think about the store itself, you know, the fundamental, you know, features we have in that store provide a lot of value to our customers. But then you look at on both sides of it, you know, one of the challenges, you know, data comes in many shapes and sizes in many, in many different speeds. So what we're trying to do is make sure that we have, you know, very easy to use tools of getting that data into our system, you know, whether it's coming from, you know, a real time streaming engine, whether it's coming out of a data warehouse, whether it's coming, you know, out of log files that are on the network. So you're building those models to bring that data in and then having a data model that, you know, solves problems for the customer in real time. One of the things that we do that I think is fairly unique is that we build a real time aggregation framework. So as information is coming in, if you know the types of dashboards that you're looking for from a customer perspective and the types of queries you want to run, you can build that in, in just time. And we'll keep those aggregates up to date as data streaming into the system. So it really becomes a powerful tool if you, for the queries that you know you're looking for. So you guys are startups. I want to ask you the startup question. I'll see where I'm in the hallways at Strata Conference. There's a lot of new names out there I've never heard of. It's like I'm not really that impressed with some of the batch of startups.  What's your take on the startup ecosystem? It is not going to, it's not going to be as green field as it used to be. You guys got in early, have good position. I'll see good tech, good IP and great team. And for the folks entering in the market, what's your take on one, the situation, the startup situation, and then kind of the competition? I mean, it's pretty brutal. It's still a noisy space, right? There's, you know, it's hard to find what people really do and everyone talks about solving the same problems in the same use cases. So if I was going to give some advice to companies today, I would say that you find your differentiation and you know, don't, you know, don't do the same things and don't say the same things everyone else does because I think it gets lost in the noise. Pick something that you think you're going to be really good at and use that as your mantra. And what's the update on with you guys? You're sort of a team last night all looking good, all in uniform. What's, what's the update? So, yeah, the update is that we're going to continue to invest in tech and talent on the engineering side. We know we've got a very good lock on some unique capabilities and it resonates with the customers today. But our goals are very lofty and we're going to continue to invest in engineering. We're going to continue to invest in a go-to-market strategy and we're going to continue to invest in a partner strategy. So I think if we can execute on all three of those, then I think 2014 similarly to 2013 will be a great year for squirrel. Well, it's great following you guys that love the momentum. Great to see the team. What's your, what's your success here at the show? What can you point out to the folks out there what you guys are announcing and talking about? So for the show, for us, I think, you know, we're always looking at, you know, making sure that the relationships with our partner ecosystem are strong. We've got everyone in the room together. So we have a lot of discussions there. And then you really understand, you know, what the end users are looking for. So we had some really good customer discussions around problems that they have and how we can be used to solve them. So, you know, I think the show has been great for us and, you know, it's great to be out here and it's certainly great to be here on theCUBE with you guys as well. OK, one final question. Summarize for the folks out there are watching who aren't here at the Big Data SV event and also the Stratoconference which is going across the street that we're covering. What is the moment in time right now? What's happening? What's the core story right here for Big Data SV? What is the big thing at this moment that's happening? What's the big story? I think, you know, a couple of things.  And I think, you know, the theme around that is, OK, it's going to be here as a data layer. Now we're going to solve problems with it. People don't want to, you know, we've got two choices with the data that goes in there. We can have a data lake that provides value or we can have a data landfill. And I think most customers want data lakes. So we've got to solve problems on top of that data. I mean, we like data ocean. That's what's more like an ocean with rip currents and all kinds of tsunami.   I don't know where that came from.  It's a data ocean. Massive. I've got a data ocean. Icebergs everywhere in North Atlantic. Caribbean waters. And that's where you guys just say, well, great to see you guys. Squirrel Hot Startup continue to grow and add to the roster of partnerships and success. Thanks for coming on theCUBE. Always great to see you guys. This is theCUBE. We'll be right back live in Silicon Valley. Here at the Hilton, I'm John Furrier with Jeff Frick. We'll be right back.


Stevenson falls in the Mac Commonwealth quarterfinals to Albright tonight. Glenn Clark alongside senior Kelly Johnson. Kelly, I know this is difficult and not a lot of fun to talk about. Can you take me through?  How frustrating was it to watch that sequence unfold at the end of the game and to know that you guys came up just short of moving on and facing Missiah on Friday? I mean, it's definitely frustrating, just because we had a few defensive laps. It's not even in the fourth quarter. I'll say really in the third and towards the end of the second quarter there. It's definitely frustrating. But again, I think we played as hard as we could. No regrets, I think, from anyone on our team. And yeah, it's just the momentum changed. And unfortunately, the time went out. Floor was on our favor. You've been one of the leaders on this team for some time. What's your message to everybody else? This is for a lot of people a learning experience. It's not a lot of fun. What is it that you wanted to know as you guys came off the floor tonight? I mean, for me, every chance that you get to get out here, it's super fun, super humbling. And you look at Dania, who unfortunately couldn't play with us today. You have to take advantage of every moment you get, whether win or loss. I'm just excited that we got to play it today. Hopefully we can play in UCACs if they scrub our forfeits. But just hustle every day. The off season is the biggest part of this game. No one sees it. Summer, pre-season, it all comes down to this. Games are fun. You got to make the grind fun, too, so. What is being a part of this program, a part of this team, meant to you? And as you point out, hopefully there's more. But can you put into words what it has been like for you to be a part of this team and the Stevenson program? Yeah, I mean, it's really hard to put into words. I think a lot of my best friends have come from this team. I've also learned a lot of responsibility and time management that you won't know unless you're here.  And I think it's just made me a better person being here. I'm so thankful. Kelly, I'm sorry that it ended the way it did tonight, but I certainly appreciate it watching you play and getting to chat with you. Thank you for taking the time for us as always. Appreciate it, thank you. She's Kelly Johnson. I'm Glenn Clark. Go MustangSports.com.