Hey everybody, thanks for coming out to the one of the last talks at dev comp on Friday My name is Dustin Minnick. I'm going to talk about how Red Hat IT runs our SSO servers So if you've ever logged into access.redhat.com and filed a case or Logged into our websites and downloaded some of our software. We're done any of that kind of stuff That's that's kind of what my team is responsible for doing So I'm going to start with a problem statement The problem statement is SSO is very very important if SSO is down We can't take your money tons of other applications won't work and my team gets yelled at like crazy so Of course at Red Hat we're gonna do everything we can to use open source software So outside of the you know the free aspect the financial gains of that and also the philosophical aspects of that Using open source software allows you to do flexible things and Flexible in this case can mean things like we have very specific specific business requirements from time to time like our legal department says You know you can't sell specific software to specific countries So those are things we implement actually in the login flow There's also cases where Since we have this up and running we could potentially link that up with other data So inside instead of going to a SAS provider that does SSO We could start to mine like do data mining and say okay this person logged in the last five times He logged in he looked at OpenShift Well, maybe the sixth time he logs in maybe we'll send him to a page that is about OpenShift And also is going to give him a discount if they want to purchase it So just that that availability of data could let us do all kinds of things we could potentially change basically the login flow or what somebody is doing on a per user basis if we wanted to do that and That's something you won't get with you know the proprietary software or SAS providers of single sign-on the other thing that Red Hat tries to do is focus on hybrid cloud and that's because It prevents lock-in You know people used to complain all the time about Microsoft does things this way and Microsoft's writing their own standard And in a lot of ways Amazon AWS is starting to do that same thing or has been doing that same thing So it's kind of important to us that we run SSO both on-site and some of our data centers and that we're flexible enough to run it in other cloud vendors solutions, so one of those things is We have people in our company people in our data centers that make mistakes So that's what I call clumsy Kyle prevention. So we have a guy, you know He'll touch something you shouldn't touch or he'll make changes a little bit too cowboy admin things will go down Your companies probably have people like that. So do other cloud vendors So even if you're paying exuberant amounts of money to Azure or AWS or whatever They're still gonna make mistakes. So it's important to have you know, your systems in multiple places it's also a risk adverse because As time goes on depending on what industry you're in and what you're doing The people that you're hosting your SSO servers with or any servers with cloud wise Could start to become your competitors. So they could start to jack up your prices or in worst-case scenarios, they could start competing with exactly what you're trying to do so Red Hat has Justifiable fears around that. So we try to spread our or spread our setups to different cloud providers where possible So this is a slide about our infrastructure. We have three sites and each site is running multiple RHSSO servers. RHSSO is the the downstream. That's the productized version of key cloak and each one of those sites those RHSSO servers then Talk to JDG JDG is JBoss data grid, which is downstream from InfiniSpan and then they also talk to Galera And then the JDG shares information between the sites and Galera shares information between the sites So we have global load balancing that routes you routes your request to the closest geo And we have a load balancer in each geo and then we have four beefy RHSSO VMs That store and read data from MariaDB VMs and JDG VMs So like I mentioned before MariaDB and JDG VMs replicate to each other across sites and we're currently sustaining about a million unique logins on a daily basis and We were able to sustain a full data center outage with this setup. So we were pretty proud of that a Lot of the other functionality that Red Hat offers through some of our other services I Did not fare as well so people could log in but not actually do that much, but that made us look really good How we manage the different sites and the different cloud providers is with Ansible So we have Ansible roles and playbooks that will go out and stand up VMs and Rev or instances in OpenStack or instances in AWS and We also do our releases using Ansible So the external or the RHSSO instances that we run They're very heavily Customized so that's one of the great things about Key Cloak is you can write your own SPIs to do different things So and I'll get to this here in just a second, but basically out of the box RHSSO or Key Cloak supports user federation through Kerbal up through Kerberos and LDAP but our business isn't using those things to store our user data for our external customers So our team has been able to extend Key Cloak internally to support where our customer data actually lives A little bit about the software if anybody was in here for the talk that Mark gave He already went over all of this in better detail than I will this is a one-slide thing But Key Cloak RHSSO is a stable flexible multi-tenant capable federated SSO server So it also supports your standard SSO protocols like SAML, OIDC and OAuth I mentioned that it does Kerberos and LDAP user federation It also can do brokered and social logins and it's manageable by a GUI or a REST API and One of the neat things that we're starting to explore with brokered logins is actually letting Different cloud providers or different vendors talk to our IDPs So for instance customers that are running VMs in Azure can now Fairly seamlessly come over to our support portal and file You know instance or request and tickets and stuff like that So even though they didn't buy an entitlement through normal channels They are using an entitlement hourly or whatever however Azure charges for that They can come over just like a normal customer would Without having to go through the the annoyance of lots of registration screens on both sides And go ahead and submit tickets and get its support I did mention that Key Cloak is very flexible and again, we're doing We have all kinds of custom SPIs that allow us to talk in our case. We're pulling user data from Mongo We also make REST API calls to other services that people have written internally so we have APIs that we call to get additional information about users and groups and we also have APIs that we call for legal reasons and Other things of that nature Here again, we could extend this to be as complex as we want it to be since it's flexible and open source In finish ban or Jbos data grid is a distributed in-memory key value store If you're not familiar with in finish ban in General you can think of it sort of similar to Redis if you happen to be familiar with that or memcash So for what for our setup? We've configured it in a replicated manner. That just means that Whatever we're storing on one site and the other sites get the same information of or we they get the same information and The in finish ban cluster with JDG stores runtime information so it stores things like user sessions and offline tokens and This allows people to do data center hopping without re-authentication, which is pretty sweet So again if our primary data center goes down or you lose the sticky session that our Global load balancer provided you with and you now start going to a different data center You're still going to be logged in We run Maria DB and you know, that's kind of just the standard database that tons of things use And it stores basic key clove config integration settings So whenever you configure a client and key cloak, that is like a a SAML integration or a OIDC integration So it stores those settings for each one of those clients and also caches some user information And we use Galera for the Maria DB replication and we do that because it's synchronous in nature We did that to prevent race conditions. So originally when we had multiple data centers We have some really interesting customers and interesting people that resell some of our subscription models and basically We would have data center one and we'd have data center two and within the same second an account would be logging into both Data centers at the same time So, you know that that's not coming from like one specific device because it would have been tracked with sticky session or something would have happened but We have this we have weird situations where within a you know within a second People would be logging into two places at once and those I'm told are valid use cases so this Allows us to get past that and also we had an issue with OIDC authorization code flows So the authorization code flow would be your browser is going to get a code bat It's going to hand off that code to a back-end server And then that back-end server is going to reach out to the SSO servers and swap that code for a token and What we were seeing happen is that was faster than the Maria DB standard replication was So the client would go and they would get a cookie and stick to DCO one they would go ahead and get that code They'd hand it to the back-end server back in server now does a direct call out So he's not stuck to the same data center that the actual end user went to they would land on a different data center and That data center would then say I don't know anything about that code because that happened so quickly that the Maria Maria DB asynchronous replication had not copied that code to the other data center yet I've already mentioned some of this stuff. So on top of those core products We have our own custom special sauce. So we have user federation back ends I mentioned that this will allow us to query Mongo for users it also allows us to do things like legal checks and Things of that nature. We also have different login and registration flows. So for different types of users we have user classes whenever they log in they might get different screens and that's especially true when it comes to terms and legal agreements and We also have different registration flows. So some of the stuff that key cloak provides out of the box is a great foundation and We'll actually meet most people's needs but we have a big enough company and people are particular enough about how they want things to work that we had to take some of The things that key cloak provides out of the box like user registration and then customize it even further to do What the business actually wants it to do Brokering I mentioned where we're setting up cross IDP trust between Different vendors and our SSO servers and our teams also Written a new protocol support. So we now do Docker auth. So if you download containers in an authenticated fashion from The Red Hat Container catalog Whenever you do that Docker log in you're actually logging into the SSO servers a little bit about our future is We're trying to contemplate now that we have three sites up and running And it's working. Well, we're trying to contemplate what to do next One thing we haven't really tested all that much yet is how well we could do horizontal scaling versus vertical scaling right now each data center has four key cloak nodes and each node has I want to say eight cores and eight gigs of memory and we've actually seen that those taxed at times and I mean, it's not it's usually not core key cloaks fault It's usually the custom code that we've written on top of it is not optimized and our developers have made that problem largely go away, but There is still, you know, it can be hefty and it can use a lot of resources. So We have to we have to figure out doesn't make sense to move that to containers Will it scale like one core and one gig of memory? With, you know, eight containers versus or whatever, I guess it'd be more like 16 or 24 containers instead of four large VMs Better auto scaling would be great. So right now we kind of notice if things are Being taxed too heavily and then we kick off some manual processes to scale out some We're starting to ask more sites and we're starting to question if we should be Thinking about if cheaper and more diverse is better So right now we have some one of our sites is AWS and the servers there are spanned across multiple availability zones and they're all highly available like all the high availability stuff is done But I think there is questions to be asked like Instead of doing that. Why don't we expand? Why don't we use one availability zone and maybe one server and each available or in each region so you know instead of Having big clusters in each avail or in each region Let's have more regions and smaller clusters in each region because then we would serve people closer to them We'd love to also look at blue green or canary deployments. So Again now that we have multiple data centers working I would love to be able to say okay developer and my team is going to release a new feature Let's send 10% of our traffic to that new feature That's only running in our AWS cluster or AWS US East cluster And then we can watch and see if there's any issues instead of rolling it out to all three data centers at once I'd love to see us use some chaos monkey type full-proofing so Once you start doing active active active across multiple data centers you run into weird Situations and they're pretty hard to troubleshoot because it's hard to track back the path that somebody took and where the logs are or even have reproducers so It goes from you know Well, I'm gonna hop on a couple boxes and look at logs to okay We definitely have to use splunk and look at all the logs across all the data centers And then we have to do you know performance profiles of each one because like AWS's T2 large isn't the same as Azure's whatever it's called And then you're also, you know your victim to however Whatever hardware they're running and whatever oversell factor they have and the same is true to our own data centers But you got to you got to be able to watch some of that stuff And that's harder to do with the more differentiated and more spread out stuff that you have Cloud data enrichment is something that Key cloak will allow us to do because it's flexible and open source So again, I was saying that we have data about our users and Mongo locally but We also have SAS vendors that store some data about our users and we can now Start calling out to SAS vendors and getting that information back about a user and then include that in the SAML assertion or the the access token and open ID connect and We could do that Again like on a per user basis or however we chose to tackle that problem So again, just just a shout-out to the flexibility is great And the other thing that I'd like to see is us having site management easier So our our global load balancer is I mean, it's a vendor. It's a well-known vendor, but You have to manage it basically through a web page and the web page is hard to navigate and people They like to have like a person involved and yeah, you know professional services and back and forth I would love for us to at least have some scripts to do some easy stuff like okay Bring down data center to and we just fire that off instead of having to Get other people and other companies involved That is all I have does anybody have any questions? Okay, the question was talk about the three sites basically what geos are they right? Yeah, so right now we're doing very poor as far as geo distribution goes we have We have some stuff in I believe it's either us east or us west AWS I don't remember. I think it's us east and then The other two data centers are also in the US. So that's not good at all Where is our actual user data stored so our actual user data like user names passwords email addresses stuff like that is Stored in a Mongo database So we have written a key cloak SPI that is similar to the LDAP federation That comes out of the box, but instead queries MongoDB The geo replication is normal. Is that the question? Oh, yes. Yes. Yes, MongoDB is geo replicated. Yes. Oh Yeah, and the US only Sure, so the question was is the reason that we only host stuff in the US because of GDPR concerns and I would say no, I think it's due more to poor planning We are running 7.2. I'm sorry. The question was what version of our HSO? Are we running in production 7-2? Are there any major issues that we face? so yes when we first started going down the The hybrid cloud active active active path the we were doing that with key cloak and with Galera and JDG and all of those were us working with Engineering and getting that support added so when we originally started on that path there wasn't much Support for that in the product yet So we've been helping them grow and they've been fantastic with growing support for that as well, but In that growing as you know hitting bugs and having to file things and working through issues May get anything else Yeah, so the question was what is the valid use case where customers would log in to various data centers at the same time and some of that was basically Automation test by some of our developers and the rest of it was a very specific vendor That resells something that's sort of similar to satellite and to their customers with on-site appliances and They do this really nasty thing where they like scrape our login page and then enter credentials and Then that logs in like so every one of their devices that they've ever set up is scraping our login page and logging in as the same credentials We've been trying to get them to do more same things Be ready and hire people It's I mean it's a lot so it depends on what your company is trying to do as well So at Red Hat we have a lot of people developing apps And it can be somebody that is literally running something on a computer underneath their desk And they want SSO support for that device or it could be any manager That has a corporate card wants to buy some sass service So we have like I think last I checked 120 or 130 SSO integrations on our Associate like the what I just talked about here was our customer IDP We also run an associate IDP for actual Red Hat employees and When when you would purchase something from a sass vendor and they offer SSO support One would hope that they would actually know what they're doing, but that is not always the case So we find ourselves spending like six months going back and forth with some sass vendor who has decided to write their own SAML library instead of using something that is already out there and tried and trued and tested So outside of dealing with That kind of stuff and knowing the protocols so that you can offer support You also need to know, you know key cloak and JDG at least for me adds a whole another realm of complexity Because to me that's like black magic. I don't know how that works But luckily there's a guy in my team that does so And Maria DB like that's easy stuff that's people done that for a long time key cloak itself is easy to maintain and Maria DB is easy to maintain All right, looks like a matter of time if anybody has any more questions. I'll be around for a little bit I'll also be here tomorrow. So feel free to come up


My name is John Gargani. Robert McClain and I recently published the book, Scaling Impact-Innovation for the Public Good. In my presentation, I'll introduce some of the ideas in the book. The presentation is intended as a conversation start or so. I'll move quickly and stick to the main points. This is a picture of banana landia, a banana plantation in Mozambique. On the lower left is the plantation. It's so large that it single-handedly transformed Mozambique from a net importer of bananas to a net exporter. On the upper right are small farms called Mishambas, found throughout the country. And running between them is a road, a bright line dividing one large-scale agricultural approach from another. For Robin Me, this picture raises questions. Who decided how big the plantation should be? How many small farms there should be? How were the decisions made? What's the optimal mix of these and other approaches to agriculture? And who's responsible for achieving it? The same questions can be asked in other settings and contexts. And we didn't believe they were answered well by current approaches to scaling. So we set out to find answers elsewhere, from innovators in the global south. In the end, we arrived at a different understanding of scaling that's based on the work of southern innovators. We put what we learned in the book. It's organized around four principles and five case studies. And we believe it challenges organizations to adopt a different mindset when scaling. The book is available for free, along with other scaling resources at the IDRC website. Just Google Scaling Impact IDRC, or use the link below. I'll start by clarifying what we mean by impact and scaling. Then I'll introduce the four principles of justification, optimal scale, coordination, and dynamic evaluation. Some of what I present goes beyond the book, reflecting our most current thinking. Rob and I joke that everything about scaling impact is simple to understand, except for the terms impact and scaling. Let's quickly define them. Impact has multiple definitions. Many of you learned about impacts in the context of logic models. In logic models, impacts are only some consequences of a program, policy, or product. Outcomes and outputs are also consequences, but they aren't impacts. Impacts are the most important consequences. They are the last to occur. And they are usually compared to an implied counterfactual. Counterfactual is another term that may be confusing. Without getting into detail, logic model asserts that the consequences of a program, policy, or product are different and better from those of some alternative program policy or product. As a rule, logic models don't identify the alternative, which is called a counterfactual. We define impact differently because we believe it helps us better understand scaling. For us, impact is all consequences, not just those we intend or want, of any importance, good or bad, to anyone. They may occur at any time, and they should have an explicit counterfactual. So if we say our program is better, we know what is better then. If this has your head swimming, be grateful. You have something to ask about later. Scaling is also a problematic term. Let's unpack it using the metaphor of an apple tree, where the apples are impacts. You may have heard of people talking about scaling up. That's like taking an apple tree and growing it larger so it produces more fruit. Banana landia is a scaled-up plantation. Scaling out is like growing more trees to produce more fruit. Mashambas are small farms that have been scaled out across the country. Scaling deep nurtures the tree in order to change the qualities of the apples, making them larger or more delicious. These different approaches to scaling can be combined, so we can scale up and out at the same time. There is also same scaling, which is intentionally maintaining the same scale, and descaling, which is scaling down, possibly to zero. And finally, not scaling, which has superficial similarities to scaling, but the opposite effect. We consider any and all to be valid ways to think about scaling. But notice that they describe different strategies about how to scale, bigger trees, more trees, better trees. These are the means of scaling. If you're a manager, this is what you spend a lot of time thinking about. Somehow, it has also come to dominate how most people think about scaling for the public good. We want to change that. We want to focus on ends, not means. This is why we talk about scaling impact. We want organizations to scale the positive impacts they have on people, places, and things. And they should scale up, out, deep, or any other way that produces optimal impact. The first principle of successful scaling that emerged from our work with Southern innovators is justification. Scaling must be justified in a public way because scaling is a choice. We may feel pressure to scale from funders and peers, what we call the scaling imperative. But organizations are free to choose. Sometimes, perhaps most of the time, it is better not to scale. Because scaling affects others, the choice is shared with them. And it should be based on evidence and values. It's not enough to know that our actions will create change. We need to understand how much and in what ways it matters to people. Much of the writing on scaling starts with the question, how do we scale? The principle of justification cautions us to take a step back and start with the question, should we scale? A big idea underlying the principle of justification is impact risk. It's the risk that organizations fail to produce the impact stakeholders desire, or produce those that they find undesirable. There is impact risk when organizations are uncertain about the consequences of their actions. Consider a continuum of certainty. At one end is high certainty of impact. Here we can reliably predict the result of a program, policy or product. Pharmaceuticals fall here. A public health organization cannot justify using a new drug unless it knows the effect it will have on people. At the other end of the continuum is low certainty of impact. Here an organization cannot predict what will happen if it acts. Fine art falls here. A museum can justify hanging a new painting on its walls without knowing the effect it will have on people. Your innovative program, policy or product probably falls somewhere in between. Where determines how you use evidence and values to justify it? The same idea applies to scaling. Let's add another dimension, scale, that ranges from small to large. In general, the larger the scale, the more certainty we need to justify our actions. With this in mind, we divide the space into three levels of risk. Impact risk is too high when we have less certainty than is appropriate for the level of scale. This would be treating pharmaceuticals like fine art, using them without understanding their effects. Impact risk can also be too low. This is like treating fine art like pharmaceuticals, and waiting to complete large-scale randomized trials before exhibiting art. There is a Goldilocks middle ground of acceptable impact risk. It's difficult to identify, which is why the choice to scale should be shared with those affected. It changes as scale increases, and it depends on the urgency of the problem. We may be willing to assume more impact risk to address a more urgent problem. Currently, this is a topic of great debate with COVID-19. Should we test potential vaccines less, increasing the impact risk in order to inoculate the public more quickly, or should we test as we always have and inoculate more slowly? The second principle is optimal scale. More is not always better. So rather than thinking about achieving maximum scale, we should be striving for optimal scale that balances multiple considerations. This requires a holistic view that we believe should consider at least four dimensions. Magnitude, which is probably the most common concern regarding how much impact and how many affected. As well as variety, which is the range of different impacts that are created, equity, which has to do with the fairness of who is helped and harmed, and the sustainability of impacts and the efforts to create them. The third principle is coordination. It acknowledges that scaling takes place in complex systems. Given this, to bring an innovation from first idea to optimal scale, requires an evolving set of actors and a flexible scaling process. Think of a journey that starts at first idea. For example, is it possible to make a new type of smart fertilizer that adjusts itself to local growing conditions and ends at impact at optimal scale? The right mix of magnitude, variety, equity and sustainability. The first part of the journey is called discovery science. It may be undertaken by a bench scientist and her collaborators. If the idea seems feasible, the next part of the journey is implementation science. There may be an implementation expert, investors, manufacturers and distributors all working to bring the idea into practice. The whole journey may also be supported by scaling science, scaling experts and stakeholders, help all the actors to justify their efforts, define optimal scale, engage with collaborators and competitors and support evaluation. I've laid this out as an orderly linear process, but successful scaling is almost always messy. Those on the journey move forward and backward. They may ever shoot optimal scale and need to descale. Sometimes to be successful, they make the difficult decision to stop their efforts altogether. The fourth principle is dynamic evaluation. It starts with a simple but powerful idea. Scaling is an intervention. We talk a lot about scaling an intervention, but scaling is an intervention. When we scale, we change our actions in order to change the magnitude, variety, equity and sustainability of impacts. However, scaling creates dynamic change, which makes it vitally important to evaluate before, during and after scaling. What do we mean by dynamic change? Well, evaluators who are interested in impact focus most of their attention on two relationships. First, the relationship between an organization's actions and its impacts. Second, the relationship between context and impact. That's what the arrow pointing to arrow means. In some contexts, impacts may be larger or better than in others smaller and different. The same actions in the same context are assumed to be stable. Scaling changes all of that. When we scale, we change actions in order to change impacts. This is why we say scaling is an intervention. If scaling is successful, the way it changes impacts has the potential to change the context, making it easier or harder to create impacts. In addition, scaling may have side effects that affect context. For example, when an organization attracts philanthropic investment to scale its work, it may become difficult or impossible for similar organizations to attract investments in the same location. As scaling continues, these feedback loops can ripple through complex systems, making it more difficult to predict how impacts will unfold next. Dynamic evaluation challenges us to widen our gaze. In the past, evaluators were focused on two relationships. When scaling, we may need to focus on five. Unfortunately, evaluators may not be well equipped for this. I've covered a lot of ground quickly. We've talked about impact and scaling, the four principles of justification, optimal scale, coordination, and dynamic evaluation. You can learn more about scaling impact at the IDRC website, and I look forward to answering your questions. Thank you. I have a question. Maybe, thanks Federico. It may be a direct implication of both of John's talk and also the panelists that we've seen the type one problems versus type three problems to address those type one research versus type three research. There is also type one evaluation or assessment approaches versus type three packages. What are the implications? Very often, in fact, we are caught in a mismatch. We're being applied type one evaluation where we're doing type three research to do type three problems. Does that mean that we really need to shift, as you've said, John, probably in your book as well, some of the theories of evaluation and impact assessment? I would say, yes, we do need to shift those theories, or at least are thinking about it. Expand them, I would say, is really what I'm suggesting, not taking what we have and throwing it away. If we have just a minute, I can maybe show you something that relates to how evaluation approaches and scaling approaches may be related to what we've been calling level one and level two, level three sorts of problems. I'm asking our moderators if we have a minute for me to try to show that. I think if it's a minute, we can. Absolutely. All right, let's see if this works. All right, I'm going to show you right up here. So imagine we have a couple of axes. We have impact risk vertically from low to high. So there's a chance we're going to do something bad if we act versus there isn't much chance something bad will happen. In an urgency, we better act now, which is high or low. So when the impact risk is high and the urgency is low, that's where this phase research and stage gating, I think, works really well. We have the time to go through all of that and cycle through, right? So that's where maybe scaling what works, that motto, works well. When the impact risk is low and the urgency is low, then this is what's happening a lot in sort of the business world. They call this lean scaling, where the only urgency they have is around markets. But they can sort of take their time to develop a new product and they can just bring it into the market. It doesn't really matter. It's not going to hurt anybody. So you're going to let the market decide here. What's happening, I work a lot with people who have one foot in the market world. And a lot of what's been going on is these two things getting shifted where people in markets are using lean approaches where they probably should be more cautious. And phase research is being pushed upon them in context when it doesn't really need to be the traditional phase research stage gate approach. So let's put those in the right order. Over here is the urgency is high, but the impact risk is low, in which case we should just go, right? Let's just do this. There's not a lot of risk. And we need to act now. The ship is sinking. Let's do something. This is the quadrant, which I think is really the issue, right? The urgency is high. The impact risk is high. And this is crisis. And this is what's going on with COVID right now. And this is why Rob and I said we needed a principled approach to innovation or scaling or evaluation that takes that into account. And I'd say that that circle is the one that is most of what we do. We are acting because there is some urgency and we have a high degree of uncertainty about what will happen. And that's what we need to try to understand. And trying to superimpose any approach on how we go about that is dangerous because we mismatch the context with that. Having said that, knowing which is appropriate when and where is really quite hard. So I feel like there's a lot of groundbreaking going on in these discussions with a much wider view towards what is possible than I've heard in the past. So I'm really excited.


what do you think that the young lawyer should focus because they say it's all we have been for the first five years the practice they say that as you said they should be in the belly but I also remember we read a story they were a young couple who wanted to marry and both of them were not earning then another person asked how will you survive they said that love is in the air we will do that but eventually they had a divorce because their entire puzzle became because there was nothing to eat etc so that they said love is there but you also have to have something to eat also because you can't survive only on the love so what do you say that young lawyers must focus for the initial five years and what are the skills they must pick up initially because they say at the first stage they say foundation should be strong and law also we say that if the foundation is weak the superstructure falls so how to build that foundation for a better superstructure of tomorrow for India one of the things that a lawyer must a younger lawyer must always do is read library books should be your best friend knowledge is what you must acquire after all it is this profession apart from being a thinking profession is a knowledge based profession I have handled air crash enquiry where I had to study about aerial launch black box six months I had to study not law but how we know all this plane flies what happened to what happens when it crash lands how is a black box you know red so you know you must have a general knowledge as well not just you know law books I have handled as advocate general litigations relating to the interstate water dispute where I had to cross examine a triple phd where I had to cross examining on scientific principles how did I do it I sat with the some of the retired the Indian professor from 6 o'clock to 12 o'clock in the night 12 to 3 I would sit on my own and think how we know I could cross examine this person based on the knowledge that I had acquired so what you must do is as youngsters first thing that I've always said is be a litigating lawyer at least for about 2 years you are better off as a transactional lawyer because you know what are the pitfalls in drafting out the transactional documentation after all there are cases where in fact I had one matter where one cent in respect of a power purchase agreement one cent was the issue one of the Singapore based company had drafted out it was running into about 250 pages this one cent translated to a thousand crores ultimately we went into litigation matter went in for arbitration there the lawyer in Singapore did not know what mistake he had made because he had no had no experience of litigation if you have some litigation experience you know what are the pitfalls so you're better off one second join a firm where you are able to interact with the senior that is very very important the old gurukul system after all what you learn in the law colleges and what you practice are totally different I'm sure you know many of the youngsters today have learned about it because they come to the come for placement and go to courts which we did not have that privilege so interaction with the senior is very very important third drafting skills this again is very important because when you start drafting when you are precise and concise your arguments also will be precise and concise so try and understand how one can draft one of the things that always you know the mistake that youngsters do is they'll draft out and then give it to the senior well let him do what he wants one must always revise the addition I mean revise the draft once twice let me tell you this I don't want to name the judge one of the really good judges that karnataka sent to the supreme court who's now today a retired judge he was drafting I mean revising his own judgments at least twice and when it came out it was so crisp and clear look at the preview council judgments they are so crisp why because they revise it so as youngsters this revision trying to be perfect trying to achieve excellence this is what you must aim at once you do that I'm sure you know the sky is the limit you will go to the top


welcome back to my channel. It has been a while since I've done a whole house clean with me and this past week we had my daughter's birthday party so I cleaned most everything up from the party but the house just needed a good top-to-bottom clean and that's exactly what I like to do. I love starting in the top level of our house because there's kind of three levels as you'll see and my favorite thing to do first is make our bed. I don't know there's just something about having this area super clean first that motivates me to keep going and as a general rule if I'm gonna clean one room in the house I generally just clean our bedroom. It's something that I do for both my sake and my husband's sake I feel like even if the house is a mess our room the place that we rest in is at least clean and we can go to bed with a peaceful restful area to sleep in. So I just swept everything up made the bed I cleaned the mirrors and then I moved on to my daughter's room picking things up making the beds that sort of thing. Next I went into the bathroom and our shower really needed to be scrubbed out so I emptied it out and I sprayed it down with the method anti-back that's my favorite thing to use in the shower really to use everywhere. If you guys watch my channel often you know I talk about it all the time I use it on the high chairs everything so I usually spray it down I let it sit for a few minutes and then I use a Mr. Clean eraser and scrub the rest of it out. We do have hard water so I feel like it's a constant battle to really make the tub look truly clean but I do my best just to scrub it all up and at least get the first coat of hard water off of it. If you struggle with hard water as well I would love to hear your tips and tricks on what you use in your bathtub. So let me explain this a little bit we just had my daughter's birthday party and so there was a bunch of kiddos that were playing in here and I just opened up the closet generally we have it like locked off so that the girls can only get out a few things at a time but I actually just opened it up and let the kids kind of have free rein which is perfectly fine in fact sometimes whenever I see messes like this it makes me so happy because I know that little ones were playing and having a good time so everything just needed to go back into its place and to be honest something I've learned with having a toy closet like this organized I've had it two different ways I've had it this way and then before this I had a lot of bins with lids and I discovered that having open top bins where you can just throw you know the Legos in the right thing and the stuffed animals in the right thing saves a lot of time to not have to open up the lids so that's my tip if you're gonna do toy storage have it open top so that you can throw everything away and the other thing that I do whenever the playroom is a really big mess is I use my broom to kind of gather the toys and to sweep them into a pile so that I can at least walk around and put everything away and this is my favorite mop of all time and you guys I have five plus years of housekeeping and organizing and stuff for other people so I've tried a lot of different mops and this one is the best plus you can put the head into the washer and wash it that way so the heads last a really long time and I have it linked below I have a section below that is called shop this vlog in the description box and you will find the link there as well as links for some other things that are probably going to be in this video so that it's simple to find all right so this is the next floor of the house and the girls were playing kind of in opposite ends of the house while I was cleaning so you might see them peek around the corners every now and then also if you see me stop and like picking something off of walls doors or the floor it's more than likely these tiny little stickers that the girls got into this past week and they have stuck them all over the house so I was kind of collecting them as I went through and picked things up and clean each room so this is our shoe closet I love it although if I forget to put the closet locks on the girls tend to get into it and drag out shoes and they're trying on shoes and playing and just making a big mess so a lot of times that is a part of my cleaning routine is cleaning up a lot of shoes if I forgot to lock the doors I just changed the battery in the vacuum cleaner that is a question I get all the time do I like the battery life on this vacuum cleaner I have two batteries so I swapped them out and absolutely in fact I had a cordless before this that did not last near this long so I'm super impressed and I just love this vacuum in general and I feel like the suction is great it's just an overall really good vacuum cleaner okay so this is something else I'm going to leave linked below and that is this trash can it was sent to me not that long ago to review and it's actually from Amazon it is a motion sensor trash can so like you just have to wave over it for the lid to open and I love it so much plus it actually holds a lot our old trash can was more of a round shape and this one I feel holds way more and we can go longer without changing the bag the other thing I love about it is that it has a little filter system in it so it helps to keep it less stinky and just keep the air clean around it I love watching Instagram stories while I load my dishwasher usually that's the one time during the day I actually have time to do that and I can stick it up there on my window ledge and kind of listen and watch as I'm cleaning thought I would change up the music for you guys a little bit this time around the song is so fun and funny and I decided to just add it in I don't know why but for some reason I just love the upbeat old jazz tunes Beverly's birthday was such a huge success and we all had so much fun but I tell you what having a lot of people in your house really leaves the floor is dirty it was high time this floor got mopped next I made my way down to the bottom level of our house it has a bathroom that's kind of under construction right now and then our laundry room here and then the family room that has been my project for the last little while so I just went through and swept the floors and got them ready to be mopped if you guys are new to my channel and I've not seen many of my videos we actually took a wall down down here and really transformed the space and I'm slowly working on it just waiting for the right pieces to come along and hit good sales and that sort of thing with furniture speaking of that this rug was an incredibly good deal if it's still on sale I will be sure to link it below for you guys thanks a lot for watching today if you are new to my channel I would love to have you subscribe give this video a like for me and I will see you guys in my next video


We're back to Why In The Morning. This is Tuesday's Interpreting Worship as we're saying earlier with Barry Moses. So we are so glad to be here because what we do in this particular day is talk to people who are doing various businesses and doing various things to put food on their table and kind of just survive in this world without entertainment. Us in this world without employment. I'm so happy that you guys have tuned in. Remember that if you want to talk to us you can do so on our social media handles. That's Facebook and Twitter, Y254 channel and on Instagram that's Y254 underscore channel. We are on DSTV channel 376 and want you guys to actually watch us and please subscribe to our YouTube channel as you do so. Today we're talking about a makeup artist. She's here with us on set. Her name is actually Betty Kajira and we're so glad to have her. We're going to be learning a few things. May I need to learn a few things about makeup? I'm a very, I'm new at this, very new at this so glad to have you. Kari Boussana. Thank you for having me. It's a pleasure to be here. Okay. Yeah, so I like your makeup look by the way. Thank you very much. You do look beautiful. Thank you. I woke up very early in the morning to be presentable today. You have to market your business. So if I came here not looking presentable people wouldn't trust my work. That's very true.  Yes, and I talk about it all the time.  Look at the hair faster than I'm like. Exactly. Even nails, it's the same thing. Same thing. Yes. So you have to have to be a working billboard of my work. Yes. You have to be a you have to present yourself. Literally this is your work. Yes, this is my CV. This is your CV. I love how you put that. Yes. Yes, and it's a beautiful CV and I think you're great at what you do. Thank you very much. It seems like you've been doing it for a while. How long have you been doing it for? I have, but professionally I started doing makeup December 2016. Professionally. I grew up in a family of all women, so everyone was putting on makeup and lipsticks. So as a child I was always curious about these things, but professionally December of 2016, so it hasn't been that long. Oh, maybe that's where I went wrong. I grew up in a family of men. I'm men. I'm the only girl then. I encounter a lot of clients. So maybe this is why. I encounter a lot of clients who didn't grow up doing makeup, so it's their first time. But I guess it comes easy when you've been in a family where you've seen these things. Aha, okay. And you said that your profession started in 2016 and that your family and everyone they're kind of into the makeup scene and stuff. So that means that they support what you do. They do. My sister is now learning. She actually now has the desire to learn. She wants to learn how to do a brows and all that. My mom comes to me sometimes, to my eyebrows, to this. Yes, because when you now know how to do it professionally, then people want to learn more. Okay, so I end up seeing that you're tight with your family because when you sat down, you were looking kind of agitated. You're like, oh, and I'm, hmm, something's wrong. Is this young lady needs something? You're like, oh, there's a young man who's at the gate, and I'm hoping that he can come in. I was like, oh, in my head, I was thinking that's probably her PA or maybe someone for marketing or someone to take photos for the interview.  Oh, that's really sweet. I kept on thinking, who will I invite? Because I did not want to wake up in the morning and come here alone. I needed some motivation. You couldn't drag one of your sisters? My sisters have to be at work. They would love to be here, but they have to be at work. One is with the kids. I'm sure they're watching. So he's the only one who is available and I'm happy he is here today. I see. Yeah, we're glad to have him. But back to you. Back to you, madame. The work of makeup artistry.  And I think that there are a lot of people who are doing makeup even on YouTube. And this is, there I can even, I think there's one who I was, I was watching the other day. Her name is Maxine Wabu. Wabu. Yeah. Yeah. And yes. And so I was thinking to myself, well, this is great. We have so many people coming up and also some of your videos are on YouTube. And I believe that's a photo of you, is it? Yes. Yes. It's the start of a video posted yesterday. I'm trying to be consistent and post videos probably every week. Yes, great content. Because I think everyone is now learning their makeup from YouTube. I could say I was, I knew about makeup, but I've really advanced my skills from YouTube. I see. Yeah. I see. Okay. Well, in this particular video that was posted yesterday, I did watch it and it was focusing on the eyes. Yes. And what you did was kind of do the eyelashes and the eye shadow and different kinds of things. Maybe the first thing, and you're showing people how to do, you've picked a shade and everything. Yes. Can we, what is first transition color? Most people who... God, this sounds like chemistry. Rocket science.  I watch these videos and I get frustrated watching them. I'm like, why? Why is this so difficult? The thing is this, you need to find a YouTuber who connects with you. There are YouTubers who create content for beginners. Jackie Aina. Oh, yes. I'm a Jackie Aina person, but she doesn't create content for beginners. So the people who create content for beginners, whereby they take you step by step, this is what you're supposed to do, followed by this, by that. I tend to be the sort of makeup artist who is just showing you looks. So I wouldn't tell you what to do step by step, but from looking at it, you can create something similar to this. So I'll go step by step, pick every color and anything that you have in your house, you can use it to create a similar look. That is what I try to achieve with my channel because you can't all have the same palette. If I'm going to something that is expensive and you don't have it, you're trying to achieve the very same thing. It needs to be easy on everyone. Whatever you have, the type of palette you have, you can just achieve something that is similar to this. In this video, I choose to do the eyes because I feel like... What was that first transition color, please? The first transition color is a color. It's like a base that you're going to build on colors. I really can't explain it if I'm not doing the makeup.  But what people do is that with eyeshadow, you just layer on one color. Like you choose today, I'm going with gold. But what you do when you're doing this professionally is that you use an array of colors that complement each other. Like on my eyes right now, I have the same transition color. I have glitter on my eye. I have black to smoke it out. That's why you need a makeup artist time to time. When you have events and such things and you can't do it on your own, that's why you need a makeup artist. I see. And is this something you went to school for? Is it something that you just learned? I actually didn't. It was just in your hands. I just learned. I was actually telling my family, I think I should go to school and maybe just get certified for it. But it's something I learned growing up from my family and then mainly from YouTube and just practicing and practicing. Yes. I see. All right. Well, we've talked about what our first transition color is and maybe you can tell us a little bit about brushes because I hear that brushes also get complicated. Do they do? And I've seen like a set of brush being unrolled. Yes. It's like a red carpet, like brrrrr. Like brushes. And we're like, we're going to use all this. And she's like, oh, we're going to use all of them. Like, no, how? For what? Yes. Why aren't we using two or three? So let's discuss about the brushes a little bit. Brushes. We have a lot of brushes, but the new brushes, I would say you would need a foundation brush is key. Okay. A foundation brush. And then you need probably a powder brush. And then you need a spoolie. A spoolie is used for your eyebrows when you're combing your, your little brows up. So a spoolie would be nice. You can find a spoolie that is double ended. It's a spoolie on one side, and it's an angled brush on the other side so that it cleans up the concealer on your eyebrows. So that is number three. Number four, you would need a fun brush. This is for your highlight. So the places you're highlighting, it gets into those areas very well. And then number five, I would say you need two blending brushes for your eye shadow. So one for placing and then one for blending in your eye shadow. So if you're not maybe doing the full thing, six brushes will actually serve you very well. But as us makeup artists, we know that this, we can use up to six, five brushes on one lid and eye lid. I've seen that. Yes. And that's why, yeah. Caters for a specific area. If I'm going into the tear duct, I know there's a specific brush that will get into that area well. If I am going into the bottom lash line, I know there's a brush that will get into that area well. But if you're new to it, just six brushes will serve you. Six brushes? Well, yes. Because what you're saying about the tear ducts, you see the water, the crease, as in people, I think men, even men may not understand how complicated it might get. You know, they look at us and they're always complaining, like, what's up with you? You know, like, yeah, I made that. But at the end of the day, I think it's a beautiful result. It's a very beautiful result. And as much as they love cars, this is our thing. Like just understand it. We don't get on your back about cars and football. Yeah. Makeup is our thing. It's not my thing. I'm trying to make it my thing. I'm slowly learning. But, but yes, I realized you talked about the different kinds of brushes when you're discussing that. When I saw that video, I saw a fluffy brush and then I saw one just kind of flat. Yes. On the, on the eyeshadow for using for the eyeshadow. Yes. Yes. The fluffy brush is what I'm calling the blending brush. So once you place your product on your lid, you need a brush that is fluffy to work it into the area you want it to go to. So if you're doing the crease, that brush is what is going to blend it into the crease. But then there are times when you're picking up product, just picking it and placing it on the lid, especially when you've created something we call a cut crease using concealer. So if you want a pigmented and shimmery color, maybe on the center of your lid, you wouldn't require the blending brush. You'll require a flat brush that will pick up your product and just place it on the lid. I see. It's not technical. But I don't want to make it sound too serious. Yes. All right. All right. I see. And you know, when we were going to talk about the YouTube videos, why did you start on them? Did you find that and understand simply it could be because people right now, YouTube is a huge thing. Everything's on YouTube right now. Whatever you're doing, you're doing it on YouTube. If you're eating, you guys might say, they're even videos of people eating, like shoving food in their mouth. And we're supposed to sit there and watch you do that. But I respect when people come in and do work on YouTube, like you're doing. Yes. Yes. And so how long has your channel been up? My channel has been up, I think, from 2017. Right. I posted some things back then and then I decided YouTube is not for me. I decided I'm not the type of person who wants to be known. I used to watch people like Wabosha, like you've mentioned. She started out with like 2000 when I started watching her. And then she'd say, oh, I went to the streets and someone noticed me today. And they said, hi, I'm a very introverted person. So the thought of that scared me away from YouTube. But my sister and my friends kept on pushing me and telling me people are making a living out of this. So this is your passion. This is like your portfolio. When you go to a client and they ask you for a portfolio, this is your work. You can show it through this. And through YouTube, you get clients, you get to teach people. That's when I decided, I think it's been two, three months since I've been putting up content continuously. And I think it's something I've decided, like you can't sacrifice what I love to do my passion just because maybe someone will recognize me or I feel my privacy will not be in my control anymore. So yeah, since 2017. But this year I decided to fully take it on. I see. And who are some of the people that you wish you could work with in the makeup world? In the makeup world? Because sometimes I see collables of makeup artists doing stuff together. Who are some of the people you'd like to collaborate with? If I was to say internationally, I would say Jackie Aina because I watch her a lot. A lot of the things I do, I have learned from her. And I think she has good content. She's very energetic. Yes. I love her personality and the makeup she does. If I was to say locally, I think... And she's finally made it because right now, I think last week, she was shooting in Vogue. I was like, oh, my girl made it. She's in Vogue magazine. Yes, she even has collables of foundation now. If I could get to that level... You will, girl. I will. I will. And people really underestimate this business. And I love how people are opening up to see that it can take you quite, quite far. Because at the point, I think once you get to do makeup for celebrities or something, I think your world does blow up. And so I think it's not limited as people think it is. It's not just on just doing makeup for weddings. There's a lot you can do in this world. And it can take you so, so far. Yes. With someone like me who is in the field, I think an aim, the main goal is to get to a place where you can have your own makeup line. So it's not... Don't just see it as something short-term, doing makeup for weddings and this and that. That's where you start off. Then I create content for YouTube. But the end goal, if you can create something that is your own, your own makeup line, because with us darkskins, I would say, there are a lot of brands in the market, but not too many brands focus on the dark-skinned people. I go to buy makeup for clients at times, and you really have to struggle to find something that is their shade. And even when you find something that is their shade, the undertone is wrong. Maybe it's too orange, it's too red, it's too gray. So if I was to get to that point where I could create something that focuses on the black woman, that would be... You'd just be sad. Yes, I would. I see. I think this is your first video. This is, I think, my first video. I pulled it up because I wanted you to tell us how you've grown. Yes. I thought it would be important because we've done two things. We've gotten your very first video. And the video that we played earlier was actually your most recent video. That was yesterday's video. And so the reason why I chose those two is because I wanted you to kind of point me out. What are some of the differences you've seen in yourself? Do you feel like you've grown from how you used to do makeup here to how you've done makeup in the other video? Yes, I clearly have the type of brush I'm using.  For example, number one, I wouldn't use the type of brushes I'm using. Two, I am using eyeliner on my eyebrows. I wouldn't do that. Okay, some of the things like the concealer I'm using is the same thing. So some products still remain like they're good. But I think the technique, the eyebrows are very different. The setting, the type of camera I was using. The eyebrows are too much. Yes, they're very dark. They're very, very, very, very dark. But even the setting, I've tried to upgrade and use maybe professional things. I was just using my phone at this point. I had a small, what's it called? A tripod stand.  For lighting, yes. So step by step, you start investing into the things and you start buying equipment that will elevate your type of videos. I see. I see. It's very strange to watch this. Oh my goodness. How do you feel? How do you feel when you look at this video? I wish there are things I could change. First of all, if there are products I would have learned a little earlier. But I think everyone has a starting point and this is not too bad for where I started. That's perfect because that's exactly what was headed. You know, today it's Tuesday entrepreneurship. And one thing people don't understand is as an entrepreneur, you're going to change a lot. The way you do things in the beginning is not going to be the way you do things in, let's say, one year afterwards. The things that you learn, the I guess expertise that you take on your journey in that one year or two years or whatever, it's really, really different. And so that is actually the same basis for every single business. I don't think there's a business where day one, you're perfect at it. Oh, you know everything. And one year later, there's nothing you've changed. You're just the same as day one. If that's the case, then I'm afraid there's no progress because you must progress. Yeah, you must grow. Yes.  I'm glad that you've seen the things you can point out because another thing that makes people efficient entrepreneurs and efficient business people is to know where they've gone wrong and to point it out for themselves, being like, oh, this is where I went wrong. I shouldn't have made a deal with so-and-so or I shouldn't have used this color, whatever, you understand? And so I think you're on the right path. Maybe we can talk a little bit about products because as we were saying, Kenyans are really into makeup right now and we're all trying to learn. And it can be expensive. It can be expensive. Like, cool, it can be expensive. I think I entered a Mac shop at the hub. I was like, I was crying inside. I was crying inside at the prices. I was just like, how? Pickup is an investment. Wow. Yeah, so it is an investment. People come to my house and they see the collection that I have, which to me is nothing compared to where I want to get to in terms of the collection. And people ask me, in fact, my cousin was asking me this morning, if someone came to your house and only stole this box, I'm sure you'd go to the police and to the CID. I said, yes, because that is my lifetime investment. What you do is that instead of buying, I feel like most Kenyans prefer maybe the counterfeit makeup just because it's affordable, but you do not put into consideration the repercussions that it has. What are some of those repercussions? People, if you go online and you search for the things people suffer from, from the things from swellings and acne and all these things, even black spots, what I tell a client is that do not focus on covering up your skin if you're not using the right products. You'd rather not put on makeup and keep your skin healthy and flawless. But if you are going to put on makeup, make sure you're putting on makeup that isn't going to damage your skin.  Now they feel they need to layer on even more to hide this. And I tell them detox, take a detox from makeup because you're using the wrong products. Get your skin to a healthy place, invest. Save up some money where you can buy. You buy these products bit by bit. I didn't wake up on money with $100,000 and bought my collection. Which probably costs $100,000. I saved up little by little. Today I bought foundation. Tomorrow I was able to afford concealer. Next month this and that. And over some period of time, you realize that you have everything and you're using the right products for your skin. But honestly, when I also started out, I used to go to, I hear people call it Dubois now. I don't know if it's Dubois or Dubois Street. It's Dubois. It's Dubois. I'm glad that people are saying it right. I used to, you know how you cringe? Ah, Dubois, I was like, oh, cringe is Dubois. Yes. So I used to go to Dubois, which I still do. I would say I don't, I do. There are things I buy there, like the technical things, the brushes, things that do not really have effect on the skin. You find me buying the brushes, the sponges, things that I feel are a little too expensive, but I can find an alternative too. But when it comes to products that are touching your skin, like foundation and powder, primer, foundation, the powders, the concealers, even though there was one time that in Dubois, when I was just starting out, I didn't have the money to do it. I bought an eyeliner there. And the swelling that it brought to my eyes, my eyes were so swollen, I did a cut eye. Waking up in the morning, I washed it off. I was swollen. I had wounds all over. I'm not saying all their products are bad. I'm sure there are people who would swear by them, but just be cautious with what you're buying. Brushes and things, tools, I think tools. Buying tools, they're no problem. But buying makeup, just invest in the right things. And let me tell you, they last a really, really, really long time. When I buy makeup, it lasts me probably not less than a year. So that 3,000 shillings, that even 1,500 shillings will last you a really long time. It will last you a very long time. Yes. I see. I see. I think now we can move to what our producers have put up before. So I've understood what you've said about the investment in makeup. And the word for it is where you've done makeup on people. I saw like a little bit of artwork on somebody's shoulder. I actually do both. I'm both a makeup artist and I do body art. Makeup artist and body art. Did you do makeup for these ladies that are being shown here? I did. This was a baby bum shoot. So these were her friends. So we went somewhere, did their makeup. I see. So this is your work as well? Yes, this is my work. You do this and then they go for photo shoots. Yes. Sometimes a photographer will reach out to me like this was a particular photographer that reached out to me and said, would you be able to do this body art on someone? I said, yes. Talked about it. He got a model. Did it. He shot it. Yes. I see. So at times it's someone who has their makeup done, who reaches out to me. At times it's a photographer. It just depends. I see. That one's quite pretty. I see. With a brown little. Well, I think you're quite talented, Miss Thing. Thank you. And then I have to ask you, now that you're into body art as well. Yes. Like we said, makeup is a large field. If only people could understand. It is. It is large. And there's a point where, for example, the guys who even, these Game of Thrones people, the guys who even make the white walkers costumes, that's also makeup artists. Let me sit here and nod my head, though I am part of the 1% that doesn't watch Game of Thrones. But you may understand. Maybe in something that you have watched, you're part of the 1%, I love that. Maybe it's something that you have watched where something looks quite gruesome. Yes. That's also done by makeup artists. There's a lot you can do. And I hear that these people spend up to seven hours just to create a certain costume on somebody's body. Yes. Yeah, to take it off the next day. Yes. Do the same thing the next day. Yes.  Do the same thing the next day. Yes. So it can be quite demanding job. That is why I chose the line that I'm in, because I mean the beauty side of makeup, and then the effects side of makeup. I am curious to maybe try it out and see what it's all about, but I am aware that it is a lot, a lot of work. Yes. And are you interested in kind of, now we can kind of talk about how you want to broaden your horizons. Yes. Yes. What do you want to do with your skill as a makeup artist? Right now you're doing face and body art. Yes. But ultimately, what are you trying to get to? Are you trying to make up your own body line? Are you trying to work with celebrities? Yes. Are you trying to do makeup for costumes in movies? Yeah. What is it that you're trying to get to? I think the one thing I see on TV and I'm like, I think I could fill that gap. I see Kenyan content like movies and shows that we create, and I tell myself, I wish they would invest in a makeup artist. And I started telling myself, instead of just saying that at the comfort of my home, I would try and maybe reach out to these people, because the content is good. But I think the moment you come to the screen and you see your makeup, we know this thing is local. We know it wasn't done professionally. Sometimes I look and I'm like, this is a wonderfully written show. I know. We're wonderful actors. I know. The story is nice. Yes. The acting is good. But what is wrong with your eyebrows, honey? Yes. Yes. So that is the one gap if I would fill, I'll be happy. Because I feel like we are getting to that level in terms of the talent and the movie itself. But in terms of investing in makeup and such things, that is where we detect very quickly. This is local content. Even in terms of music videos and such things. I see people trying lately, but that is a gap that I would really love to fill. And then obviously, I would love to work with celebrities, but I feel like that is a market that people have already gone into, which I do not mind. It's a good thing that our celebrities are embracing professional makeup artists, that when you're going to an interview, when you're doing your video, you see most of our musicians right now putting on very professional, decent looking makeup. But I think the movies are yet to get there. And then if I could work outside the country, that would be really good. Yes, the time and again I find people DMing me maybe from Uganda, from Nigeria, to maybe do something together on YouTube. So if I could broaden my horizons and go outside the country, that would be a good achievement. I like your goals. I like your goals and it seems like you've set something up for yourself. And that's important and we don't have much time. Maybe we can just quickly talk about one, two things and then you can give you social media handles and then we can let the next person come in for the interview. But now that you've talked about broadening your horizons, I was watching YouTube again. I do love YouTube. And there's a challenge going on where people are in different parts of the world, in different parts of the world, people are going to the worst reviewed makeup artists. They get it recorded. Of course they don't tell the person that. They're just like, oh, I want to do a photo shoot. So the person does their makeup, they get it recorded, they post it and they're like, I went to the worst makeup artist in Nairobi. And then they do a challenge for, I went to the best makeup artist in Nairobi or whatever, or Dubai. I've seen all over Dubai, London. The one for South Africa cracked me up. I have never laughed so hard. I should check it out. Please go and check. You will. I'm still laughing. I don't find any of my work less. No, no, no. Maybe the best category. No, no, no. No, you do your work quite well. When I say worst reviewed, you'll just be like, what are these people doing to these poor, poor customers? It's a very interesting thing to watch. And so what you also kind of get is the difference between what I feel I got was the range in makeup artists. I was like, the people who believe they're actually makeup artists, but it's just not working. And then there are those who it's really working for them. And I think it's really working for you. And I really believe that you're going to go quite far with what you're doing. Thank you very much. And lastly, please, can you share your social media handles? And if you'd like to shout out your family, even your cousin, when I'm a kitty, you can shout out anyone that you'd like and also let people know how they can reach you so that you can go into the makeup for them. Okay. So maybe I would start by saying a huge, huge thank you when I got this invitation. I was very happy. These other types of things I want to now start doing getting myself out there to be known. And my social media handle is at Kajura underscore Betty, that is my camera. So at Kajura underscore Betty. And then my official Instagram handle is enhance underscore beauty underscore space. So enhance beauty space, just separate them with an underscore. And then on YouTube, I am known as Kajura space. And then we decided to gift two of your viewers today. So anyone who is, maybe has a wedding or an event, if you go and follow my YouTube, my Instagram handle, and you like and subscribe to my YouTube channel, you stand the chance to get a full makeup courtesy of me. So tell your friends to tell your friends subscribe to Kajura space and follow us on Instagram.  I see. Oh, okay.  Yes, by subscribing, you have to go to Kajura space, my YouTube subscribe to that. And then to Instagram, Kajura enhanced, sorry, enhanced beauty space. And I forgot to say my hi. I think I'll say my hi to my family, our kids, my friends and my church. Oh, okay. That's wonderful. All right. Well, you've told people how to, you guys have to go and subscribe to her on Instagram and YouTube. Yes. You know, there are some things that you are going to get following. Yes. Thank you so much for coming, Miss Kajura. Thank you very much for having me. We had a wonderful time. Me too. I have learned some things about makeup. I hope so. I can't say I love it, but I've learned something. And I'll continue to practice. Okay. I have to have you as my client one day. I shall come. Trust me, I will come. I shall come and you can tell me a few things as you also. I too. Yes. Give me a nice look. I can't wait actually. Thank you so much for coming. And coming up next is actually Miss and Barry Moses with another interview on Tuesday Entrepreneurship. Do remember that you guys need to watch this particular show so that you kind of learn on the different things that you can do instead of sitting at home waiting for employment, because right now employment is pretty scarce. But here we have business people coming here. They've done a few things with their lives have come and said they're talking to us about the things they've done. And it's just amazing. Thank you so much for coming once again. Do stay tuned.