I am here to introduce the panel. Thank you Stuart and everyone on the panel for joining us today. I have a passage that I'm going to read off that kind of explains and introduces what we'll talk about a little bit here today. So I'll be reading this off, feel free to take any notes on some interesting things that you might be able to look into after or might be discussed as this panel continues. So there's a really worthwhile book that sometimes gets passed around and Stuart recommends called The Finite and Infinite Games by James P. Kars that is a good philosophy book. It's short but incredibly dense and concise in a sort of flowing always going forward kind of way. Here's a passage. Infinite players look forward, not to a victory in which the past will achieve a timeless meaning but towards ongoing play in which the past will require constant reinterpretation. Infinite players do not oppose the actions of others but initiate actions of their own in such a way that others will respond by initiating their own. Blockchains are about resources, applications, shared infrastructure, individual freedom to act, to know, social advancement and more. But fundamentally they are about coordination. We make the world computer and therefore the world computer makes us. How much agency do we have and what do we aim for really in using it? We'd like to welcome Stuart and the whole panel to the stage for many reasons but the ones we'd like to point out is that he's popularized the personal computer. It could have been just called the small computer but it's called the personal computer. Microcomputers they were, yeah. And coined the phrase, information wants to be free. Some of the rest of it will be touched on the panel. The other panelists we'd like to welcome are Wendell Davis and Althea Allen to the stage. Wendell is a community member, an early member of Amiza Go. And excuse me, while Althea Allen is an early member of the Amiza Go community. They are here as infinite gamers, dedicated members of the Ethereum community, the blockchain community, the decentralization space, the human race and space in general. One more passage from the book before we start. Infinite players are not serious actions in any story but the joyful poets of a story that continues to originate what they cannot finish. Thank you all very much and please welcome. Alright. I'm not here for that, I'm here for this. Alright, what do you want? Welcome. Stuart, you have been there for many a movement. You rarely put your name on things. But you have been often behind the scenes behind the camera. I had to do some research myself in preparation for this and as I was sort of tracing your story, it was rather mind-blowing how many times your name popped up in things that I had heard of, things that had influenced me, things that had influenced the people who have influenced me. So we're hoping that you can bring some of that perspective to us today. But before that, I would like to let you tell your own story. I know that you have some slides and just tell us some of the things that you have lived through. Want me to do that now? I would love you to do that right now. Let's see what we've got. I guess it starts with psychedelics. Clearly it is not finished with psychedelics. Yeah, so I was in the thick blue kinokisi, merry pranksters. We organized the biggest acid test called the Trips Festival in San Francisco. And it put together all the creative artistic groups in the Bay Area in one place for one night and set in motion the idea that audiences should not exist as audiences, that there should be no spectators. And Burning Man carries on that tradition to this day. Probably, I should say that my sense of what I do in the world is I hack civilization. I'm trying to figure out kind of ingenious, low effort ways to make a difference that helps civilization go better. And I'm sure my best, at least most efficient hack was, again, on the effects of LSD, coming up with this button live when we've seen a photograph of the whole earth yet in 1966. And that was sort of strange because we'd been in space for ten years at that point and other Soviet Union and the US had taken any significant pictures from space.  And indeed, a year later in 1967, the first photographs emerged from a weather satellite, ATS. There was a newspaper and nobody paid much attention to it. But it was the one that was available when I started my major hack, I suppose, exactly 50 years ago, the whole earth catalog, where the image of the earth was lost on the cover, tried to be comprehensive, and the main event of it was access to tools. And I'll come back to that. But what really happened with the earth image was at the end of 1968, when homesick astronauts orbiting the moon took photographs of their home from our home from a great distance. And what made that photograph called Earthrise most powerful for everybody, it reframed everything, it replaced the mushroom cloud as the sort of standard icon of our times and of civilization. It did that because there's a dead planet in the foreground and a clearly living planet that happens to be ours. And it's surrounded by a quite frightening vastness of space. It's a hard vacuum. And you get a sense of finiteness and fragility. What I was doing with the whole earth catalog in terms of access to tools, I learned last night from Corey Doctorow that he based sort of the way Boingling does reviews on the way we did it in the whole earth catalog. And they were just short access to tools, to skills. The best book on learning how to fly was done in the 40s by Langewischer. A really important book that came out in the 60s and 70s was Our Bodies Ourselves from the Boston Women's Collective. And basically it went against what medicine had done up to that point is basically treat a woman's body as disease. And the female doctors and so on of this group put together a book that was a manual of having a woman's body. There's craft to it. It takes tuning. It takes maintenance. It takes enjoying at a cellular level. And all of that was in there in this book. And it was one of the core books of the women's movement actually. Fifty years later, I discovered after various people came to me and said, well, you know, reading the whole earth catalog got me out of Nebraska. It got me out of Indiana. It got me out of some small place where I was. And it got me going on, you know, what I do now. And they tell me these origin stories. And in summary, what I noticed it does, and I think that blockchain is doing this, is it confers agency. It gives people the sense of freedom to choose to do, damn you, or anything. And just go forth and try. And the opposite of agency is victimhood. So one of the things I wrote somewhere along in the process was a good project is to just un-make victims. Start with yourself, branch out from there. One of the things that grew out of the whole earth catalog was the hackers conference in 1984. The bearded guy in the top left there is John Draper, known as Captain Crunch. He was jailed for being a hacker. And in jail, the mob broke his back to get his secrets of how to do hacking. He was out by the time of this. There's a brand new Macintosh in the left, and two of the developers, the Macintosh, are leaning forward. They're looking at somebody's demo. I want to point out that hackers conferences go on all the time. This is, in a sense, one that we're in here, but also on the screen, is the iGem Jamboree, which is 10 years old. These are bio-hackers, and they're basically hacking bio-code, the genetic code. Currently, they're up to 3,000 participants and 300 student teams that come and create organisms that basically race them and get prizes. And this is the long-term project of 10 years of basically making the world safe for biotechnology. It's an awesome project. It is one of the most thrilling things to go to. It feels sort of like this event, in terms of just getting a sense of hope and excitement and lots of things you can do. What I'm involved in now is partly biotechnology, bringing it to wildlife conservation and then partly the Long Now Foundation based in San Francisco, where, among other things, we have been for 25 years now working on a 10,000-year clock designed by Danny Hillis. It is being installed, as you can see here, inside a mountain in West Texas in a mountain range that Jeff Bezos owns. And that clock will tick faithfully for more than 10,000 years. It's just a permission to think long-term. One of the things that emerged from all of that is our idea of a sort of a piece-layered diagram of a healthy civilization going from very rapidly moving fashion all the way down to very slow-moving nature and culture. And those are separate layers. They need to be respected as separate layers. And most of the power is in the slow part, and most of the learning is in the fast part. We can come back to this if you want. The customer of the Long Now Foundation, and I think the customer of Ethereum, is civilization. This is the local fragment of it. There's the kind of a big picture of civilization as a whole. That's who we're working for, in my view. Is that okay? We can go back to any of these. So you've been walking around. Yeah. So this is your first DEF CON, of course, and this is your first blockchain conference. Yeah. And you've come at a great time, it seems, actually. Yeah, that's fantastic. It's really a very special event. I know you've been talking to a lot of people as you've been walking around. You've seen a lot of talks. I'm curious to know, what is your impression of all of this? Is this how these things happen?  And they were always wondering what's going on, and one of the things I said is that we noticed is, look where there's new terminology emerging. And so with hackers, for example, there were a whole bunch of hacker terms that emerged. In fact, there was a hacker dictionary that was kind of carefully maintained because newcomers to that world would need to know what is this shorthand for. And I could well imagine there should be, if there's an already a blockchain dictionary, an Ethereum dictionary, and you see it in different, you know, new words, DAP, new word. You see it in words that are repurposed, wallet and fork and beacon. You see it in joke words like codle. And that's a sign to me that new words have to, it's not just for decoration. They are new tools, and they need new words to express them. And so part of what I've been doing as a guest here is just sort of learning some of the vocabulary. And with vocabulary, you start to learn the system. That's what I've been getting here. And since you've been a part of so many different, let's call them hacker movements, and especially, you know, you yourself have participated in providing these civilization hacks, as you described.  But what I'm interested in here is having some of these folks who are doing this now to be able to have a perspective on this to see that, you know, they're part of a long history of this kind of stuff. To take this home, what is the thing that connects it together? Early on, we had no idea that the hackers in 1984, 1985 had no idea that hacking would eventually get industrialized and weaponized, and it would become a, so, you know, one of the things we're saying, well, there's black hackers and white hat hackers, and don't worry, and we did not prepare enough for the problems that might occur. I think blockchain is doing a better job of that than we did. I think the biotech crowd is doing a better job of that. Can you elaborate on that a little bit? Why so? Well, so, you know, there's not a lot of talk of ethics here at all. There's no women involved at all. We had like 100 hackers there, two might have been female. Boy, has that changed. None of them were athletic, and I see a fair amount of fairly athletic-looking characters here, so that's changed. And it's also a good sign. There's, you know, across the board, health going on. What, Stephen Levy is the guy who wrote the book Hackers. He's in the far left there, up in the upper corner, and he was recently asked to reminisce about this, and he said what he remembered was the laughter. That basically these young hackers spent three days and all night just giggling away. It's the first time they've come together, and these kind of comings together have that quality of glee about them that I think is part of what makes it go. I want to apologize for overvalorizing hackers in what they tend to be the star of the personal computer show, but we are actually, you know, they thought of themselves as masterless samurai, but frankly, most of the real engineering was done by people who were narrow ties who worked nine to five, often with federal government money like the Doug Engelbart mother of all demos. Everybody worked at SRI, working with the Department of Defense money. And people in the Xerox Park, that was corporate money. That was, you know, devised the things that became the really graphic interface for what became the personal computer, and Steve Jobs came over. Steve Wozniak was at this thing. Jobs didn't, Jobs wasn't a hacker, Jobs was a marketer. But Wozniak was a hacker. And Apple then took what was going on and being completely wasted at Xerox Park by the Xerox company, and then deployed it, and then they got copied by Microsoft slash IBM, and you're off and running. So hackers are important in part of any of these stories, and they serve the glory part, but they're not necessarily the only part or even the main part. So that actually brings up something for me that I wanted to get your perspective on as well, which is what is the role of institutions in something like this? Because on the one hand, institutions have a lot of money, and they have a lot of power, and they have a lot of guys in skinny ties who can just do the work. But on the other hand, I'm going to read another quote from Finite and Infinite Games here. This was one that really stuck with me. That successful defense of society against the culture within itself is to give artists a place in which they are guarding them as producers of property. And I think that extends to a lot of forms of revolution and forms of dissidents who schedule the protest. You know, it will be happening from 1 to 3 p.m., so find a different way home. And it's a very effective way to sort of disempower a movement to give it a safe place in which to have its revolution so that everyone else can go on about their business. And so there's that danger to me when trying to sort of compromise or trying to work with institutional powers that we maybe give up what's most important because it's also what's most inconvenient for them. Ethereum's an institution. Touche. But that's saying that, you know, what's the solution to bad code? Solution is better code. I think institutions is how humans collaborate on things. I mean, we say civilization is 10,000 years old and in a sense what that's honoring is the invention of agriculture and the institutions of towns and then the way that people could collaborate at more levels than just hunting and gathering. Oh, once you've got towns and you're off and running in the story of civilization is 10,000 years old and there's every reason to believe it'll go another 10,000. And in a way, anything that we do as innovators is blending in with that long story. That's institutional. And the things that corporate misdeeds and government misdeeds want to be, need to be called out, need to be answered, need to be worked around. It's just, you know, a lot of it's just class. Sometimes we try to get it where people would just behave better than we wouldn't have this particular problem. And the reason that a whole catalog had access to tools under the title was that as our function is that I had believed Buckminster Fuller who said early on if all the politicians in the world died next week it would be an exciting week but things wouldn't change that much. But if all the engineers and scientists died next week we would be at a loss how to carry on. And that human nature is very difficult to move. It's a very complicated and rich thing. Tools are easy to move, they're easy to invent, they're easy to deploy when they work. And so his approach was the hack is just make a better tool that works around the things that you think are not working well in the world. And sometimes that involves inventing new institutions and so you have nonprofits come along and you have a whole, there was the private sector and the public sector of government and the whole social sector that's emerging in different rates in different societies but there it is, it's basically a self-driving service structure. So these are all institutional inventions with tools part of what enables them to ideally be more benign or truly beneficial. That sounds really general. It does and I wonder what happens when they fight back when what they're interested in most is not being benign but just continuing to exist whether or not they serve a purpose? It is the case I know with corporations and probably with governments that a lot of us get worked up about how they're just about profits, they're not. When you actually work with these companies they're mostly about a survival and typically one is for them a very competitive industry whatever it may be and they're always figuring out what's going to come along and just blow them away and they either just fail and disappear like seers is in the process of doing in the US or they get gobbled up by another company and sort of disappear into that. So that survival instinct at the institutional level can get pretty tough and that is worth bearing in mind because they are legally people but they don't act like people and I think it's right to call that out. So head it off everywhere you can. Sometimes one of the things I love about Cory Doctorow's book Walk Away is sometimes just walk away. Find a way to live separately. This was the thing that was done very much in the 60s and it gave us a fair amount of one education. We went out and all started communes which failed and it was highly educational in how they failed and it also gave us a sense that there were a lot of things we thought we were dependent on that we were not actually all that dependent on and so you find your own freedom from these institutions. That's an ongoing process and it's not going to stop and I think what you want to do when you're building an institution is have in mind the institutions that have gone somewhat harmful or even pathological to notice how that happened there and see if you can head it off and recognize it early on and head off the things that are moving in that direction but civilization is an argument and sometimes blood is shed in that argument. That is probably with us for a while. So on the topic of walkaways you know the people here are building I would say like the next generation of human coordination tools. I think it's a good general way of saying it. And the thing about that is it may end up empowering a million subcultures for governance, for finance, for all these kinds of things which means that coordination itself amongst those groups may be more difficult in the future before it's easier.  And we don't have much time according to you about this topic so how do these things work together? Well this is a question I keep asking blockchain people what have you got to help head off climate change and what have you got? Well it's a good question, good question. But I think the question is more about this narrative of let's say mass walkaways. If everyone walks away who's going to steer the ship so to speak. Yeah, walkaway is what adolescents do. It's what being in your 20s is about. It's the origin of a lot of all institutions are bad, all governments are bad I'm going to invent my way out of here and cryptocurrency is my escape from all of those things and then you get a little older and forms of collaboration start reasserting themselves is absolutely necessary and you get into politics and in order to get anything done you actually have to find ways to compromise with the opposition or you have a non-functional government which we currently have in the US because of failure to do that and that is not a diminution that is a growing into a form of responsibility and maturity and public service that just acknowledges there is no way. There are enough scattered applause. So that does get at something else that we talked about briefly leading up to this and it's what happens as people age within a movement because as you said it's young people it's people who get upset at their metaphorical parents and go off to do their own thing and after a while maybe they get tired maybe they have other things to worry about maybe they worry for their own safety or that of their families or maybe they just sort of stop caring what happens as people age who have started a movement and is there a way for movements to carry on even as they lose their youth? Most of the... Well this happened with these hackers the picture is still up here My rule back then was they never do a second annual anything which speaks to what you're talking about but the people at the high-risk conference lived so much that they two years later did their own and then another one and it goes on to this day and it's an old folks gathering which is kind of great it's like a class reunion or something they never... the web came along without really engaging them so other entities come along but frankly what happened is good scientists, good artists, good engineers keep moving we live longer and longer lives I'm 79 and good health and you know my parents pretty much checked out by the time they were in their 70s so just in a one generation we're getting significantly longer and I suspect your generation is going to live a lot longer than that and you're going to have three digit lives 100 plus and if there's children there's going to be not just grandchildren, great-grandchildren maybe great-great-grandchildren to deal with that if you're still doing the same goddamn thing through that whole period you better be doing it very well but most people that move on and actually being an artist in New York back in the day was the great releaser for me that if you're not... if you get stuck in a blue period so you're going to move on to something that is much more dangerous and much more interesting one of the Nobel Prize winners in economics that I got to know said that basically he changes his discipline every seven years and the thing that he worried about getting a Nobel Prize is that it would stop him and the way it stopped so many scientists who've gotten a prize like that so it's not walk away, it's keep moving Do you want to take some questions? Do you want to take some questions? Say again? Do you want to take some questions from the audience? Oh yeah! Alright, does anybody have any questions? Let me see, I'm going to move it If you do, please come up to the microphones Yeah, there's microphones, Heather and Jan and these guys will call you out We've got one ready over here Hi Stuart, really enjoyed this talk I just want to tackle perhaps you asked a very pertinent question What's blockchain doing about global change or climate change and perhaps from an engineering point if you're looking to make things more efficient perhaps cut down processes cut down wastage the other point as well which is how do we look after all these people in the world when they're getting more efficient at producing goods and perhaps you're digitizing the economy so people will have more chance to create stuff and create a digital economy which involves moving electrons around rather than atoms I think it's very abstract but we can't keep creating more stuff because we're running out of stuff in terms of iron or natural resources so perhaps there's a way out for us that we create a digital economy where people can still create in different ways and yet we serve each other without actually using more of the earth's resources so does it make any kind of sense to you at all? I'm not as worried about because I'm a life-long conservationist and I suppose environmentalist I think we overstate the limits of resources the bet that was made long ago by Julian Simon was my little teacher, Paul Ehrlich as to whether the prices would go up or down of a old basket of things that they were looking at and Julian Simon won the prices stayed down and Paul Ehrlich lost on that and Paul Ehrlich lost on population you're seeing a version of that now I'm sort of extrapolating from where you're going on this finite earth thing existential crisis there's an existential danger from AIs there's an existential danger from climate change there's an existential danger from extinctions which are not happening as rapidly as people think any minute now we're probably going to point out the existential danger of plug chain they already have how does it work? you know it's I don't think it's actually a real existential danger but it's the danger of being able to for example move value freely that could be a danger for someone I think the idea of say a private transaction is rather terrifying to many people or just the idea of putting more and more machines on the blockchain like what happens when they start to think without our help they start to be able to spend money without our help what happens when they just start buying things from each other I think that there have been many fears expressed a lot of them have to do with just sort of fear of the unknown because blockchains make a lot of things unknown by design yeah AIs that quality do oh god what's the AI going to do but I think there's also something very scary about allowing people to interact with each other without sort of coordinating powers without authorities telling them how they should do so and actually I'm just going to exercise stage privilege right now and bring this to a topic that I think I would like to hear you speak on a little bit as well which is informal economies, slums and squatter cities this is something that you've written about quite a lot and I think it's something that's extremely applicable to what we're doing we're talking about tools for basically for coordinating in a situation where there is no authority or maybe the authority is unnecessary or antagonistic or antagonistic and I'm curious whether you see any assumptions being made or sort of any conceits being held that might find us building the wrong tools or those tools in the hands of the wrong people tools in the hands of the wrong people I wound up writing about it's a book called Whole Earth Discipline which begins saying there's sort of three long long-term narratives that are playing out in this century that I was focusing on in the book it's urbanization, biotechnology and climate change those are not stories that are going to be over in a week or a year or a decade that are going to go on in the whole century and the urbanization aspect I sort of started with is that's the main event and the villages of the world are emptying out and you go oh my god those wonderful villages well you know, subsistence agriculture is a big drag it's why the communes failed in part it is a ecological disaster often because they're in marginal land there's a poverty trap and they're not in the cash society and so there's no way out people go to town and they go to town and where you begin in town if you don't have any money because you're coming from a village is you go to the squatter cities to the slums and then there's this informal economy going on there of talk about microfinance I mean these are you know, rickshaw ride fees that you're working with and swapping something into a teacher so that your kids can go to the private school 100 yards away from where shack you're living in and that is where the main demographic event of our world is going on it is where women are having fewer children because in the country you need seven kids in order to run a farm and in town you want to have two kids and they're going to be high quality kids going to try to get them education so they can prosper in town to or less and then the women if they're with a jerk in the village they're stuck with a jerk but they get to town they don't have to put up with them anymore they're gone they take kids with them and start things and women are doing the urbanization of the world as near as I can tell so then what helps that well I used to go to all these personal computer conferences back in the 80s and on into the 90s and they would always end with this last session and it would be about how we're going to fix the digital divide where us rich people have all these cool tools and those darn poor people they don't get to have these cool tools but we'll make sure that we get them and vows would be bowed and all that Kevin Kelly pointed out, thank God for the rich people who will spend insane amounts of money for a new tool that doesn't work yet and will help it down with their extra money help it down the learning curve to where it actually works rich people at which point, poor people, grab it and run to the horizon with it and so when cell phones hit the developing world they proliferated and you get a better cell signal in most of Africa than you can in most of the United States and there's more stuff going on with cell phones and now smartphones than in many other places and they invented ways to do money with M-Pesa in Africa and so on there is so much resourcefulness there is so much ingenuity it takes a lot of skill to be poor to manage poverty, to manage yourself out of poverty these are very able people and they will take any tool that helps them get up in the world and if you can generate tools and sort of make them accessible and they get invited in and say, hey, we're here to fix your culture situation or the way you do commerce here in Mumbai that usually doesn't fly unless it's really good so get invited and then watch it transform by the locals into local businesses into whatever it is that works with their culture, with their situation and when it works it can fly fast like cell phones did and I think potentially blockchain if it really, really can deliver value in an easily leverageable way people will grab it as they grab cell phones and if it doesn't, it won't Shall we take another question? Yeah, thank you I wanted to ask, what is underpriced or what do we not understand the value over the importance of whether that's culture or technology what are the things that we're not really getting the fundamental relevance of? I'm so hard of hearing, I need that repeated He asked, what are we undervaluing? What are we undervaluing or underpricing or misunderstanding the importance of? What are the things that we should be really focusing on that we're not paying enough attention to? I don't know enough to answer that well I'm still at the, oh my god, this is astounding level and so I see nothing but glory in all directions here and so I can't do critique yet and probably ever but there are other people here who can Stuart, that's not helpful at all I know it's not, but you know, if you invite a newbie he's going to just be all gaga and that's me I have one more question Thank you So this is a room full of people endeavoring to build very powerful tools historically those who have created powerful tools in earnest goodness have then seen those tools immediately weaponized by those who don't really care about that and then a power taken away from those with good will and moved into those who will use the tools for their own self-improvement Is there any advice you have to the people in this room actively building on how to create a nuclear reactor without creating a nuclear weapon? Nice way to put it This may be one of the functions of good government is a kind of a regulatory oversight and a book I'm recommending along with Finite and Infinite Games is a new book by Michael Lewis called The Fifth Risk It happens to be about the US government but it tells astonishing truths for people that didn't know things were out there Government Governments vary but a lot of amazingly valuable stuff goes on in government that is not actually taken enough advantage of data collection in particular and of course we all worry about data collection in terms of invasion of privacy and so on but a lot of it is just what's the ground truth of the society that you're in and then with that ground truth the tools you're making particularly coordination tools like yours can learn about reflecting stuff that's real in the world So working with government helping make sure that transparency is part of the deal One of the reasons this book of Michael Lewis is pretty angry is that the current administration in the United States is trying to shut down access to this information because they disapprove of it because it's science basically and that's the thing for the fighting Funny situation, suddenly instead of fighting government we're trying to fight for government at its best and I think this kind of and this is one of the things the Ethereum group is better at than say the Bitcoin crowd is figuring out what are the points of already existing institutions like governments that are worth not just honoring but really engaging in helping keep non-destructive, non-harmful There's lots of ways things can go wrong and one of the functions of government One of the things that governments do is collect weather data and people are much less killed by hurricanes now than they used to be because weather prediction has gotten good in the last 20 years, really good Likewise medicine, a lot of medical research goes on under the National Institutes of Health and things like this and that is why medicine used to be a flip of coin whether going to a doctor is going to help or make things worse now it's pretty much across the board it'll mostly help So finding institutions that are doing valuable things burrow in to where the good stuff is and help the good stuff and do what you can to head off or work around the bad stuff and, you know, eternal vigilance But don't solve a problem just because you can imagine it This is Jimmy Wales tells the fable of the steak knives where he was finding that with the programmers that were coming around Wikipedia when it was starting up I figured out all the different kinds of problems that would happen and they would design software that would see that problem and immediately head it off Well the problem didn't exist yet and what Jimmy Wales said is you are making the steak knife problem this is you hire an architect and you're going to run a steak restaurant and the architect says I hear you're going to have these sharp knives on every table Well, that's obviously very dangerous anybody could go berserk and kill not everybody at their table but everybody at all the other tables we've got to put these little cages around each table in sort of modularity that will at least isolate the bug Yeah, except nobody actually does that in these restaurants and so Jimmy says wait until you have a problem be really alert for the problems ask people to tell you about the problems early and often and, you know, go right after them but if you over anticipate them you will design freedom out of the system Thank you I think we have time for one more question Hi, my name is Matthew DeSolva and I'm a journalist for Quartz First I just want to say I feel privileged to be in the same room as you I just finished reading the innovators and I was astounded just by your history and I'm just, I feel so lucky to be here My question is about the kind of inequality even within the blockchain space Even in the blockchain space there's a lot of economic inequality like from the very starting point of a project whether it's in governance or distribution of tokens or just in, you know, social power and I was wondering how you might suggest addressing those kind of inequalities as projects grow I don't know enough I really try not to opinionate where I'm hopelessly ignorant this is one of those cases but thank you for the praise and it's a nice book that Walter Isaacson wrote Thank you for being here Well that was disappointing I wanted to challenge you a little bit though maybe we can end on this instead about not building for problems that we haven't discovered yet I think Wikipedia is the best example of what can happen if you don't build for problems that haven't happened yet Wikipedia is like one of the shining beacons of what can happen when humanity gets together on the internet I think that there are other things where we didn't anticipate problems that we maybe should have I think social media for example is a terrifying place and there are things that maybe weren't inevitable but that feel inevitable now given the decisions that we made and like is there a balance between anticipating the horrible things that could go wrong without building so many walls around ourselves that we can't have any fun I happen to live an early version of social media with the well back in the 1980s and we discovered trolls See you really were there for everything and we discovered the main rule which is never feed the troll we discovered flame wars we discovered mob action I got mobbed at one point and became so disgusted I left the well I felt like it was a failed experiment but it was a better experiment than many and here I'll get into I think somewhat controversial area here which is that anonymity is way better in theory than it is in practice and to the extent that blockchain can give verifiable identity that's going to be one of its great values in the world not only in the developing world where people need an idea in order to own property and get loans and things like that but that bots can be bots on social media the original idea of Facebook who's understood it is that you were basically verified by mutual friends who said this is a real human being and this is real name and I wished that we had done that with the well we had pseudo anonymity in the well because I'd already seen anonymity be really pathological on other systems and as soon as I can tell there are special cases where anonymity can be important for privacy can be important for private conversations can be important but general a lot of anonymity in general discourse is destructive and a whole part of blockchain is protecting privacy but I think a whole part of it is going to be in a sense the opposite of being to really be who you are and the thing I try to make clear in the well when we started is the byline I put out there was in words I didn't want to be sued for people insulting each other that got mistaken into thinking that you had property rights over your own words which is another stupid question you have responsibility for your own words but there needs to be a responsibility bearing creature behind that for that to actually hold and so that's where I come down on that one and I think we're at the end of everything I just would like to thank you again Stuart for being here it's been really a pleasure getting to know you and I'm really glad that this was the DEVCON that you came to because it has been amazing and to the organizers you are amazing this thing that you created has really been extremely special and so thank you and thank all of you and we'll see you next year at DEVCON


Erica Banks goes to a Houston program and turns into one of the biggest TikTok songs. And boy for boy, female rapping lyrically, she's one of the best. Erica Banks goes to a Houston program and turns into one of the biggest TikTok songs and boy for boy, female rapping lyrically, she's one of the best. Bro, I picked her. I texted her. I got the text, nigga. I'm talking before all of the, because I seen it. I'm finna tell you what's so crazy. And I tripped out all for it. Nigga Kalk out of my phone. Hey, man, I'm thinking about signing her, bro. But if you say I should not want, I said, man, she's the best female artist out of Dallas. Signed. She gone. Before that, even before she went to, uh, to, to, to have pain, I, I, my son showed her to me and I was like, man, that girl can rap, nigga. I knew it, bro. When she was stripping and rapping, I was like, bro, you cold. Because you got to think about it. It was like, it's like three or four, like strippers that turn rappers that got Sensei Mali. Yeah. When she was dancing, she was like, I'm a rap. Like I was literally like, we went out of town. We went out of town to go make some money and I, and I'm listening to the music and the call. I'm like, man, you tripping. You need to focus on this. Yeah. Like you got it. Shout out to Sensei Mali, man. I was about to say, what did somebody say about, um, rapping and stripping that it's just not a good look? It's not a good look. I can't say who said that. That's why I said somebody said that. Yeah. But at the end of the day, I think the hustle is real. I respect the hustle.  You gotta make it. So you agree that it's not a good look? I ain't saying it's not a good look. I don't, ain't nothing not a good look. Because if it worked, it worked. I can't, I can't dictate what works for you. You know what I'm saying? I think the hustle is real. Yeah. But so I tell my, I tell my kids all the time, I'll be like, man, you can't go look at your partner and what your partner got going on and expect it to, to work for you because she, she, his parents might not fuss at him for, for acting up or doing something. So he ain't got to deal with these consequences, but you'll do. Yeah. So you got to always, you got to put that in every day lifestyle.  You might got to strip your life. That's what I was talking about. And that's exactly what I said. I said that the fact that you got to, because rapping takes money. You got to finance somewhere or the other. Rap take real. I just told you to keep up that, that whole hit that image. I was literally balling broke all the time.  Man, come on. I was balling broke. Cause I used to hear it from her. She's saying, he came up to that a day. He got, man, it was cool. It was cool. Yeah. Crown holder, Mazzana. I see the picture and my mama used to turn a mud hole through me. Like, boy, you just keep buying clothes and you got to buy shoes. And I was going over to the DK with miss Lisa, you know, back then, I was under the old law. You know, you couldn't get the new Jays unless you bought the outfit. Yeah. You weren't no raffles. It was like, if you ain't buying the whole unit, because we selling the clothes too now, you can't just get these shoes. So you got to get the shorts, the shirt, the jacket, and we're going to get your shoes. You know what I'm saying? I came under that law. So Pearl Jordan's 150. The jacket was like 80. The shorts was like 50. The crown holder was hidden, wasn't it? I'm in a crown hold. That crown holder. I know them niggas who were doing that. Man, we were crown holding concerts. Jesus come in crown holder. Black label or 8732. Come on, man. You know what I'm saying? Come on. I was going broke. I had all them accounts here at this store. That's crazy. I was going broke.  But you got to, you got to, like, hey, man. It's the image. It's the image. You got to have your image up here. So I cannot wear. I don't even got to get fly. If I don't want to get flying, people going to be like, man, they will fly for 12 years strong. He can always be fly. Yeah, they get. That's the way it is. So to be successful in the music industry, it can't just be all time. Image has to go with it. Yeah. Depending on the crowd that you're shooting for. Like I'm like, I used to hate when Mo3 used to work.  It's to grind my girls. I was like, bro, come on, bro. We got to go tomorrow real quick.  They can hurt his flow. I'm like, what? What? I just couldn't. I didn't understand it. But the catch is it's all about the confidence in the individual. Some people need clothes. I'm like, for a long time, I needed clothes to make me feel like walking in the room. Now, it's to the point where I can, I can be chilling. I can wear a white tee because I didn't know how to upgrade it. I'm into jewelry. I'm into all these other little things that, that, that, that's like, that come for safe for clothes. But in the meantime, shit, I thought of my own clothes. I'm going to be honest with you. And I know that we're going to get into that, but you know, I can relate because that's how they store got here. Because it was a time when I was hustling. I wouldn't wear the same thing twice. Come on, man. I came on. I'm a different type dude. You don't even wear your white tee. I ain't wearing nothing. Like I give it to my brother. I give it to my cousin.  You don't, you don't much with white teezers, man. I'm a world.   My mom used to be like, because at this time I had my own apartment, but at that, I had my own apartment, but it was with no washing machine in there. And so I was like, man, I used to drive all the way back home to wash machine free. My mama has. So my mama would be like, I don't know why you wash these clothes.  Yeah, I'm gonna wear them again. I'm like, that's something we do. I was like, uh, but I might, I might. Hey, you not. And I'm not. And she was like, because you keep coming here with bags. I knew.  I'm talking about, we really, I literally, this is how bad clothes was for me. In high school, I didn't talk to my mom from September of my senior to like two months in when I was in college, because I wound up getting a job. My mom, my only thing my mama did not want me to do growing up was get a job. She wanted me to focus on school. That's it. Nothing else. School.   I don't, I made straight A's where I ate in my class. So I was like, I don't, I need a job.


Welcome back to the breakfast and plus severe Africa time for off-the-press Zuzo would take you through the pages of a national dailies and we also have an analyst joined a conversation Chris kind in one do is on standby. Good morning, Chris. It's good to have you join us Good morning. Thanks for having me. Good morning, Chris. Okay, so I set up with the Daily Trust newspaper this morning. Let's find out what big stories we have on the Daily Trust and the Banner caption reads Nigerians to pay more taxes Tariffs, that's what the federal government is quoted to say Prizes of drinks Tobacco stamp duty to rise Subsidy removal additional taxes will aggravate economic wars. That's what experts are quoted to say Obasan draw to Nigerians don't expect anything from Buhari That's the president former president of the federal Republic of Nigeria Advising Nigerians and saying Don't expect anything from the current president you also have federal government rakes in 227 billionaire as MTN Wien's 5g license COVID-19 on vaccinated core members bad from NYC camps That's also another one Nigeria UAE lose millions daily as Diplomatic raw depends More airlines reject Nigerian passengers to Dubai countries pushing for self-interest says Don Consultation ongoing foreign affairs ministry is quoted on that Declare state of emergency on terrorists and claves Tambiwal urges Buhari 20 killed in Balchi auto crash Like Facebook zoomed to start charging 7.5% vats from Nigerian users So it brings us back to the fact that there will be more taxes and tariffs According to the federal government But that's the much we can take this morning on the Daily Trust newspaper Away from the Daily Trust I will move on next to the Daily Times newspaper There were banner headline for this morning is elmic run We've initiated steps to make UK others reverse ban on Nigerian travelers That's according to the federal government Wants that while countries are free to set out measures to protect their citizens Niger should not be singled out Other stories on the Daily Times newspaper this morning Finance Minister Haydn'ts on possible additional taxes in 2022 All right, most stories are stronger executive legislative partnership or deep in democracy says Buhari Those are most of the stories you can find but then let's see if we have more Four hundred and eighteen million dollars debt caught fixes December 21 to hear pending applications in 36 governor's suits 2023 elections new electoral law now awaits National Assembly presidency INEC MTN MAFAB win provisional licenses for NCC's 5g spectrum Auctioning those are all the stories you can find on the front page of the Daily Times newspaper this morning Away from the Daily Times. Let's quickly look at the leadership newspaper this morning and bold on the headline You have contraverses trails a condays account of Osiba and George's emergence as vice president And that's a boat caption on the leadership to know boo Arekbe Shola. I'm also comes Decline comment and power play and intrigues. That's also riding you find underneath the board caption federal government rallies global consensus on asset recovery a Fanny Ferris 6 fresh probe of Bolaigay's mother Omicron United Kingdom to leave travel ban on Nigeria orders Nigerian passengers I know my ganas escape routes Concern is how to make Nigeria better in post-Bohari era That's what the former president of the federal Republic of Nigeria Lushigano-Baston just quoted to say that's the much we can take on the leadership this morning Away from the leadership the next paper. We are reviewing is the Daily Independent The banner headline for this morning a UAE Recents the season against Nigerian travelers to Dubai or to riders there Ethiopian Airlines to resume boarding of Nigerians today Restriction due to rising COVID-19 cases in Nigeria according to the UAE Insurance boards may be liable for unpaid claims by firms a number of government confiscates petrol stations guarded by fires in Onitsha 418 million dollars deduction court the client's granting injunctive order against federal government Maudou Sherif may emerge consensus candidate for APC national chairmanship finance minister hands on possible additional taxes in 2022 Most stories on the Daily Independent NYSC makes COVID-19 vaccination condition for camp registration Inspector killed as gunmen attack Abia police headquarters Namdi Khan who sees DSS AGF over poor medical attention Nine for assembly most successful since 1999 la one Boasts those are the stories on the front page of the Daily Independent in his paper this morning All right, let's have a Chris one do join the conversation this morning. Good morning, Chris All right, thank you for joining us So we sort of with the Daily Trust newspaper this morning and on the board caption Dominating all of the papers is the fact that Nigerians to pay more taxes and tariff According to the federal government and that's come 2022 more like a new year package Yes This is for obvious reasons that is where there stands that So that those countries where the taxes are paid especially the advanced countries you will see what it is That is a useful good roads position of good road water hospital education and All Human in there But I was there what we use out for our rules are bad We cannot provide electricity for ourselves. We cannot people cannot get to the hospitals that Themselves and treated education is neither here nor yet So that now questions the rationale behind the payment of us in Nigeria So and that is why most often than not like us know that the federal government is not a what is supposed to be need to be really needful, but Now as to the issue of a reason of passes Next year and the question I want to ask myself is that what is the purchasing powers of Nigeria's assets well now? practically So many Nigeria's millions and millions So that really that is not your catchments. You are looking at those that are working You are looking apart from the income as you're also looking at it was from birth and rest of them So but This is of passes on the daily basis Nigerians are worried about tax You you if you see your back account you are charging you a lot Then there is a time to see Then there is a bad and that's how many of the charges that you are There is a pose of you your definitely your vehicles Because where you go to register your very good you have that Then you go to the supermarket Nigerians are overtaxed. In fact, they are this is that they are they are double or triple tax for the same Product and that is why the problem. I've always been and you have also seen the problem that the issue We know between the federal government and some states like pre-pass legals on the issue of bad Recollecting but that issue is deepening because and has not been decided But that is not the way to go. That is not the way the new year give the Nigerians. We need this year So that's that there's gonna be an increase in petroleum product the as we've been told that my own dog So Nigerians are totally overtaxed and at the end of it I can't ask myself What do they get a return for all these taxes and then I should think that the government should be looking at all that ways Racing when you run us on the daily this is racing task. I see where tax is the tax is not the only way to To raise income in the country We talk about diversification of the economy the agricultural sector the mining sector instead of all these who are relying on All you which this is to be our own only primary means of Getting our own interest and rest of them But that's with that thing That's it's like it's going to be very very big new year for Niger's country All right, Chris. Let's stay with the daily trust Just below that particular headline Nigeria UAE lose Millions daily as diplomatic row deep ends. No, the last is not been had concerning the COVID-19 red list You know if we won't discuss it yesterday on the show the economic impact and now the daily trust also has a you know The economy on mind it says millions is are being lost daily Falling this particular. What are your thoughts exactly Chris? Yes The business relationship between Nigeria and UAE Well, let me also say this word The trade imbalance is a paper The trade imbalance is I guess Nigeria is a paper of UAE definitely If you are going to put it out, you'll see probably about 72 30 because what we're spot to UAE practically don't say spotting to it rather on the daily basis to see our people flying down to UAE I'm going to buy the two porches and also a rouse to order Also, you see that Game more we just we're just talking about the minister that are just learning his family or wherever to the UAE despite all the but let us look at it holistically from the Economic angle as we say we are told that we have to it's white flights Coming from UAE And you just have one from Nigeria buying to UAE. That is a complete Business imbalance in which ever you look at it But what will be that? That's other point. There are other allies that fly Nigeria's to UAE. You have a topia ally, half-cutter ally or any other country so we just see that Then to lose more without like it or not, but to me that is not the issue here. The issue is that Our diplomat our ministry is that the crystal pouring out. Yes, I should be able to get these ads right when it comes to this It's not just you know, but talking of United Kingdom. We are talking of Canada Some other countries that are one Nigeria because of Omicron because I've always asked myself is that how many people how many Omicron variant Have been discovered in Nigeria. I don't think it's up to 10 as of the last time I checked And these are countries that on any business succeed. Let's take for example United Kingdom Most of the football teams in United Kingdom are finding a fairly difficult to be able to raise a team For their matches because of the fate of many matches are united Tottenham Hallsport, many of these Even recently Lester Most of their players to come and play Abroad even our old village in Hianancho Was affected you could even play in the last month the place we said it. I think that it In russia, so you can see the high increase of these variants and Omicron in these countries And I'm going to wonder why they have to make Nigeria a scapegoat As far as this issue is concerned, I hope there's no more that there isn't much to this But I believe that this diplomatic Solutions to be one of these and good enough. I was I just read On the headline of the day when I said that I think that That is not just So well, I'd like to take you back Let's get back to the issue of the taxes and that's on The daily trust newspaper like you have You know put out rightly there's nothing wrong in taxation And in collecting taxes and in citizens paying their tax as a matter of fact as part of the social contract But let's also look at you know other means because according to the minister of finance It's a concern of saying the economy is recovering. We need to generate revenue, of course I'm looking at our budgets. However, even the proposed, you know, of course the 2022 budget has been put out proposed. You find out that about 57 percent of The proposed budget is meant for recurrent expenditure and that is the cost of running governance So it wouldn't it be wise for us, you know to Look in words and try to reduce the cost of governance At all levels Even the presidencies the governors and the rest of the way you put this together you come to realize that The the our overhead is just too high and these are also people that travel on all of them, particularly This is across the world and the collectors tackles and rest of them. So I think that's the need for us to put down On this and the cost of governance is too high so many people have a That we don't need to and we don't need a bicamera national assembly that's quite rather than seeing it Or and have some electricity we can do we can just do one of them and just have one we have 360 members of the house of representative by power 109 member senators and I was just reading one of the first where The senate president was quoted to have said that an average member of national assembly Every year is about 1.1 billion error. That is huge. That is huge. So So that is why I said earlier It's not just about tasks tasks tasks. You can knock on this.  It used to 5% and the race is to 7.5 And that has been ongoing. So if they are bringing more 1,000 and just the one are you going to pass ninjas to death? Are they going to die? When even the Which there are most of the states that supposed to pay them up in most of the states that have not paid 30,000 Minimum, which I'm sure you are aware of that so many of them and And they'll say that they're crying about it for long. So we have serious situation on hand that You can you realize that what we are facing presently is a very very difficult situation Which I think that the government should be most creative more creative in their quest to To raise income or revenues rather just as to Nigeria. I've said it We have other ways of making money Or this I've said it just means a lot of material in the agriculture We can we can get more from agriculture that came off of mine and as soon as many of them Nigeria is rich with gold with With diamond with all sorts of this is there's no state in this country that practically doesn't have any Mineral resources that That can be spent and maybe to make less more Beneficial for Nigeria's that what are we doing about that? And also we have also talked about the treatment of the constitutional as it were presently. I was I was at a Few days ago. When was it? I think on Saturday. Yes Saturday I was at the 60th on location a ceremony of well bathroom. I will you invest in I was invited so I was at that system and I listened to the speech of the governor of on those things He spoke he was the guest speaker at that you need to see what he said I think we should try to get that team your viewers will like it You need to see what he said about restructuring in Nigeria Even after that after him the vice president You know all truthful On issues Related to that. You also need to listen to what he said. So everybody's on the same page on this The way we Nigeria the government's purchase is not working and except to do something about it They were going to have issues All right, Chris. So let's slide over to the day leadership. Let's talk about her Joe burner headline for this morning controversy trills accord days account of Oshiba just imagines as VP I'm also came the client's comment on power play and intrigues Accounts and that was based on the points by the The former national chairman of a busy and also I got the during his book the law his book launch and he gave some kind of analysis on how Oshiba became vice president and but I read a piece and I read a write-up by one of my friends Allowing He's a deputy editor with this the newspaper and I he is online if you after this government you see Where he gave the graphic Details of how Oshiba actually became the vice president And I want to also believe what is a country largest because what they used to be the political editor of this the newspaper before he not became And he gave a vivid example explanation on how Oshiba talked about the Bikula muslims and who talked about the saraki and who we talk about regular scholars and who And at the end of it, so it was a good The key part in that it was even better. I realized that even Oshiba Joe was My blood to know who was against Oshiba Joe's name. We need to read that piece It's the sacrament in Oshiba that includes Prismedia So multiple believe that the account given by Gifak one day was not too accurate because it seemed to be so much This thing on himself I think it was one of those behind it, but for me It's not I am not there Yes, that's what I know that is within a piece in a fight is for the soul of who become the flag bearer Of APC come 2023 and we noted that it was already and Oshiba Joe is already carrying Take a band is also getting And There's no perfect as it were Even the books we use in school. You see that that is where you have all the theoretical We see reviews. You'll be seeing that the first edition second edition You know what happens that most of them are not more fat comes in and those authors tend to upgrade those parts as it were but I'm not a member of APC. I was in there when Oshiba Joe was chosen the nearest I I know But I know that a lot of things but I can remember Let me put this. I know that during that period that was a big stage one Platinum wanted to be the best question to Wari in 2015 and the system But it was that I know that there was a lot of intrigues and the party most of members of the party stopped actually lost a party that We cannot have a muslim muslim ticket and that was what you couldn't get it at the point that You wouldn't have said that okay present us with somebody that you know that you can give us somebody Don't forget that people like a mechi and the rest of them Run us becoming vice-president at that at that point in time But at the last moment he decided to go for Oshiba Joe who was a commissioner In one of the I think during the What's his name and from a fashion last Moment and the rest of them All right, let's also look at the fact that I mean that's on the daily trust Tamil world is asking the president to declare state of emergency on terrorists and enclaves We'd like to share your thoughts on that I mean it has to talk about this It's just like a book in records if we can we talk about these theories and The fact is that these guys have theories I've said that number that the problem we have is that the body language of Presidents doesn't seem to be having matters at all because where it is most people believe that the president has not been doing enough and on to go to Make sure that most of those arrested and those perpetrating office people that are arrested and proceed then We'll continue to have what we are what we're representing is treating the issue of insecurity as a as a first the terrorist and bandit keep low This cost recently declared Terrorism But come to think of it and you have to say that how many of these people have been persecuted and just recently On a very very sad note about 25 Passing that we have bonds today inside their vehicles And I've always been on that part tax and whenever this happen What the president does is to put some issues and give them matching order matching order to wear And I've never seen them match to anywhere The situation is becoming so terrible that the now you can see the secretary of state of not Just last week a commissioner a serving commissioner in the home state of Of this you know president was killed The commissioner was killed recently and that is just one out of many So many Nigerians are in the bushes where they have been kidnapped and lots of them as So many of us there's children In the hands of kidnapped parents and we forgot to you know that most of those children that were kidnapped that are not We're practically going to sleep with everybody is not be able to say nothing happened. Some of those kids are seen With the with the with the terrorists as it were so We cannot continue telling the president Just this month if you get one of these The minister of police affairs will give you reason why president cannot put every where he had those attacks Where people were killed and the rest of them. That is to me is is absolutely rubbish Sorry for the young issues of what they cannot be saying that there must be a party There must be a party. These are Nigerians. These are people that you have supported the primary responsibility of every government It is to protect the life and properties of his citizens And any government that cannot do that is seen as the failure The way we are looking the roots is a queen This government has failed as far as the issue of its security is concerned and that was one of the reasons why the president was elected Because most Nigerians believe that as a general who be able to handle this effected me best Is how far was and to help where it is It don't forget whatever anybody said, you know, they become not to tell us that we are better than we are treated That to me is not true All right, Chris Let's stay with the daily trust another interesting story. There is a covid 19 unvaccinated calm members Bad from nysc camps. How do you react? Well, COVID-19 This is not even a fascination The the may the may trust What I do to the next level Is the boost that I've been quite taking now. So taking the two jobs is no longer even An issue with most countries Here we are still playing with Come at the fascination for People in the advanced countries We are going for boosters. I've taken my over. I took my two jobs close to a year now And there's even this on me to go and take my boost. I can't take a booster. So we should be begging people not to Think they have a fascination Yes, it's very because that is a combination of so many people at the same time And there's a need that most of these children who are now vulnerable to this Scourge to get themselves fascinated. I totally agree with that. Anybody that is coming to the camp must have Must have been fascinated and make sure that they are accurate what they are bringing to the table is the Message They are so many fake vaccination cards around And you can just go and buy those cards and they will do the shopping That's right At times when you see most of these countries burning us and but at times I don't tend to believe them because there's a lot of Issues going around here. Nigeria's would be un procured this Fascination cards for traffic purposes And for other purposes and they've not gotten vaccinated only for that to go to the point of entry and by time they try to Check them. You see that they are having COVID-19 it does not necessarily mean that everybody Is not everybody that had they Have been vaccinated that cannot don't forget that a business is where some people have also had those Fascination in two jobs and they still die Look at the South African President that just came recently to Nigeria to visit president which only told now that he Is having a coronavirus again Down with COVID-19. I can see myself laughing That's to me We also need to go to the president if he had a contact with the president I feel that our presidential paradigm So that's That is the way it is. It's not a lot of what I do not have because what he says is that the government has left everybody To themselves to be able to take care of themselves. I said that they're not making so much less The various agencies of government that's supposed to be in charge of everybody seems to have come quiet And they're not making much again. Is there what I just say is that's like throwing us under the under the boss But every single person should try to make sure that he gets this vaccine and say so that We know who they hear the you know that who they talk about us to read their touches Well, you also We want to agree because you we have Health experts, you know, even government themselves saying we do not have these vaccines The fact that our dependency on these countries for the vaccine and understanding the politics of the vaccine We don't produce the vaccine But we have to wait for these vaccines that have been produced and of course there will be a list of priorities So this country's Will prioritize who gets first and whatever has left has been postional to the third world country What looking at african anas a continent and nigeria is part of that now You know, you had some quarters saying how many vaccines do we have available the issue of expired vaccine over a million doses of expired vaccine So as much as we're saying that people get vaccinated do we have enough vaccines to vaccinate the people? That's also another one You know another consent that we should be looking at and then the vaccines that are available Have they expired? What would be the implication of administering expired vaccines to the people? So, um, you know, I feel like it's time that we we move away from the dependency If we say we need to get people vaccine We need to find a way of also producing our vaccine So we don't have to you know be dependent on them that that's also so let's imagine now I'm putting this out now. Let's imagine that everyone You know, the entire population has not been vaccinated say that want to come out Do we have enough vaccine to vaccinate the people? I I'll go with you totally I have always said that we need a whole room solution to most of this Especially when it comes to the issue of the vaccine Africa have not been doing enough We have been just as we've always done on debating on western wards or handouts To do that with the funds to go to IMF to go to war ban to beg for money We need to do a money from infrastructure idea goes on the daily basis growing from tina and the rest of the world Who goes going goes soloing And also we'll be able to find solutions to this problem And localize it and measure that we can do issues of this vaccine on our own We always continue to find ourselves where we are And I didn't give the situation that I didn't say in my language that If a fire drops on your laps and drops on that of your the child you are carrying Which will you move first? Definitely you remove that of the one On you the father of that of your child as much as love that child So nobody will love you more than yourself the countries of the world They also have their own challenges when it comes to the COVID-19 and they must measure that their own people are where to kick around Before they start giving out to him whatever you get at the end of the handouts And at times that That's even what it's called the policies of COVID You can never have the money and you won't get this vaccine and those countries will not say to you I'm sure you are aware of that that you can have that was the time that Africa said, okay We went by through the african development ban Uh, african development ban and they said that we want to buy we want to purchase for days purchase this for africa and Nobody was ready to be able to sell to them. I'm also in that period our own Dr. Mosey because you well also spoke primarily on how african is being neglected Sure On the disparity between the western world and what is coming to african It also acts yourself Even the beauty that we have gods what do you do with it? We just look now that we have a million doses that Aspired maybe even assume that that is uh, uh, baskin. It just one week before the aspire If we are put all the necessities in place as that bastion is landing in Nigeria One million people or it's not going to be one million because it's the you know, it's there's Double job. So we're looking about 500,000 people 500,000 people who have gotten that job before it aspires What's the happen at the end of the day? So what I still believe and pray that which is to do is that which will have a home grown solution to some of this problem COVID-19 is going to be it's not going to be the last messy so many pandemics We also call and it is only how well we shoot the capacity that we are ready to be able to do this You will never what's happened with the Ebola in the past and where Africa was was like At the receiving end that it took so many Months before we could be to record and we cannot continue to wait on the western world to give us solutions of the We have scientists. We have Nigeria All of those that developed the vaccine in that This is Nigeria. I'm sure you remember that guy I think one of the top hospitals in the US of that it was part of the team So that's how many Nigerians who are doing one that play across the group In Africa, I won't give them the opportunity to develop themselves. I'll give you the results Chris, we have to let you go now. Thank you so much We appreciate your time Chris and Wendu. Thank you so much for being part of the conversation We appreciate your thoughts and we look forward to sharing more of your thoughts on some national and global issue Once again, thank you for joining us Thank you very much for having me. Do have a nice day. All right then We will take a short break when we return. We'll head straight to our second conversation And of course, we'll be looking at the issue of Yes, the additional tax for Nigerians come 2022 According to the Minister of Finance, please stick around. And just before that, I will be taking today in history and Sandy Hook Elementary shooting is what we'll be looking at 2012 Stay with us


You can now follow me on all my social media platforms to find out who my latest guest will be and don't forget to click the subscribe button and the notifications bell so you are notified for when my next podcast goes live. I remember BBC did an article on me and it pissed me off me and the title was Brendan Luttony and the Nailie Man and I thought, how can I retire? I'm 33 now mate, I was turning 33 last week and it's like, I can't retire now without winning a world title. I just can't. Everybody's saying that to me like, go on, what did you do? Did you strike David's bird? That's not people being used man. Remember in primary school when you say, what did you do for a million pound? Like, what would you actually do when I was entering that cage that night? Nobody was beating me mate. I was going to die, I was quite happy in signing the death certificate that night and going, if it don't work out, shut me out and just bury me mate. That sort of was thinking to me, that's some mentality and that's why I've got it. The test of a man is when the shit has to fan, when they've got nothing to get up from and they've no drive and they've no motivation, then what are you going to do then? It's a 24 hours a day, seven days a week job. I'd leave session, yeah? I won't answer my phone. I had my phone on air playing over 90% of that camp.  Yeah, get him on. I put my full life on old James, like I don't have a gaffe at all. My birds, all in turmoil, my family lives in turmoil, all I do is fight, everything else is absolutely fucked. My life outside of fighting, I don't have a life outside of fighting, I wake up in the morning now and I'm like, what do I do? Bummer on? Yeah bang, nice and quick, yeah, simple as that bro. And today's guest, we've got Brendan Loughlin, how are you my brother? Pleasure mate, loving it. Glad to be a lesson first and foremost, congratulations on the win. The million dollar fight, you absolutely smashed it. Your talents always been there, for everybody that you see, you've always been spoken about highly all around the world, great fighter as well. But again, you showed your talent with leg kicks, with so much to then win that fight. But how are you feeling after that? Yeah mate, it's a bit surreal, especially now, don't forget we're over three weeks on from the fight and I've just got back here, so you can imagine.  Just went for a coffee this morning, it's gone wild mate. I'm buzzing all because it's 16 years worth of hard work this mate, so you can't say I don't deserve it. Yeah man, I'm buzzing for you, I watched the fight and I was buzzing for you, it's unbelievable to see that.  I'll always go back to the start of my guests. Where you grew up and how it all began. So yeah, we're in the great old city of Manchester here, born and bred. So I get any other young lad mate playing football, like if you're not around here, you're not playing football, what are you doing? That was it, playing football. And then I always get asked like, was you that nutter that you should fight everyone in school? And I just wasn't me, I was just a kid that was good at football, good at sport, athletic, was pretty good at long jump and a few other random little gymnastics.  There's no way I'm getting a nine to five. And then MMA kind of burst on the scene. My next door neighbor used to do it and then used to go always fight, but we're talking like 2005 here. Like it was brand new. When I say brand new, like people say, are you watching that UFC stuff? You had to get it on a VHS tape mate from a shopping town and then you used to put it in and watch it. That's how old it is and that's how long I've been in it. And then he just bumped them in the back of the car. 16 years on, we got this big fella here. What was it like, your first thing sparring? Just the first time walking in the gym because it's just full of the local lunatics. You had just heard about this mad thing from America and everyone just started trying to do it, but didn't know how to do it. There was no nutrition. There was no nothing.  And then it was kind of like in the deep end and I was only the young lad and they were all a lot older, like the local doorman and all that. And yeah, ended up in it with them and then kind of got pretty good. I'd say after about five months of training on Tuesday and Thursday, two hours each, he goes, yeah, listen, we've got you a fight. I said, oh, what?  Yeah, we've got you a fight. And then the rest is history. That was a fast fight, like. I've turned up to this fight, yeah. I'm about that big. I've turned up to this fight and then I've been fighting this guy. He's already had two fights. He's two and old Luke Brown. Shout out to Luke Brown. I said, nothing him. I called there.  I was so bad. Honestly. I was like, didn't know the day. Didn't know the range. Didn't know the distance. I had no martial arts background, really. Just training with ease and lunatics. And then I just threw an over and right. Hit him. He went down and hit him a few more times and the rest stopped it. And I thought, that's a fluke. In my head, I thought that is a fluke. I should not have beat that guy. That's mad on it. But the old day made me again. Like I say, back then it was kind of, like you say, frowned upon, but people were just thinking. No, it was. That's exactly the right word. Like, mad men. There's no structure to it. There was no money to it. It was just a case of brawling streets. But now it's just as popular as football. It's as popular as any sport in the world.   It's every fighter I've spoke to. There is something missing up here. I don't care if it's boxed in that AMMA.     But that's how scary that sport is.  And for people, every fighter I've spoken to, they love it. They love it. I don't know if I love it very well. I'll be honest with you.  It is. And just on your point, what you said there, you used the perfect word. It was frowned upon. Like, I used to be scared to tell people. Like, for example, my ex-bird back in the day, like, her parents, we can't tell them what you do, though. And I'm like, why?  It wasn't an AMMA, then. You was a cage fighter. You got in a cage and had a fight. And I've watched it now in 16 years go from that to, wow, yes, AMMA.  So you can imagine, I've watched the sport grow from frowned upon to mainstream in the space of my career. It's mad. So what happens then after your first fight? Was that an opportunity to say, OK, I've got a career here? Or was it just still doing it a bit of fun, learning to be able to handle yourself? Like, what was the method of thinking? No, there was no careers involved in it still. It was semi-pro, like, the promoters had just made up this thing called semi-pro. So they didn't have to pay you. It was an amateur and it won't pro, but they used pro rules, but they took a round off. It was two rounds instead of three. So they didn't have to pay you. It was bad, mate. And then I remember my second fight, they gave me another guide, had a few wins. And that one, I was really scared, mate, because he'd knocked these first two guys out. And I knew in my head, well, I'd thought at the time that mine was definitely a fluke. In my head that was a fluke.  I've got to fight him now after doing that. And then I've got a funny story that my coach loves. So it was the night before. I was absolutely shitting myself. And I thought, right, I'll take these sleepers because I went from my bed to the couch. I was trying everywhere to sleep, but couldn't sleep. I took these sleepers, still couldn't sleep. And then me left outside. There was nothing in the fight. Still not slept now, but I've had all these sleepers. I remember in the car, I'm just, I'm melting in the seat thinking, oh, God, I've had all these sleepers. And they're all like, yes, lad, you up for it and all that. Then I remember getting in the changing room. And I'm not eating the pads on them. I'm just lephagic.  You know, he went, why?  I had loads of sleepers. And I went out and just absolutely obliterated that guy in about 59 seconds. I was that scared. I just ran at him as fast as I could. I backed him and then that was two knockouts in a row.  What do you think if you never, because we know the streets of Manchester, it's a lot of tough bastards here in Manchester, so for the tough, tough guys, a lot of crying down here as well, gunchester, a lot of heavy bastards. I know most of them. But where do you think you'd be if you never chose that path of a fighter? Do you think you could have been involved with the madness? I just think I would have been successful in whatever I chose them or proper determined little bastard I am. I just don't forget someone on my head. That's it. Like this, I had that on my head. I had it as my screen tape. I had a picture of it all around my house. I just wanted it that bad. And I got it me. And I just think if I would have took that energy into absolutely anything else, I would have been successful. So even if it would have been crime, I would have been successful. I just know I would have. So the content, what series, you put on the contender, but you were on the UFC, was it 2014 as well? 2012. 2012. You won that fight and lost one. Is that correct? So I went on to Ultimate Fighter, got a phone call, Team UK versus Team Australia. I applied for it. Two and a half thousand people applied and only 12 people got on. And then I didn't get an email back about going. And then I'm either like, yeah, where's my email?  Come down to the trials. So they had about 300 people at these trials. First you had to hit pads, then you had to pass that. Then you had to grapple, then you had to pass that.  Then I passed that. And I was down to like the last 14, but only 12 were going on. And then they go, right, use of the 14, two reserves. We'll let you know in three weeks through the 12. So I'm in my head, I'm on. I'm like, yeah, sweet training, dead hard. Then gets a phone call on the Friday. They say, just let you know, Brendan, you're the second reserve. The second reserve's never got on before. So just carry on with your fights and then hopefully try again. But I was 19 at the time. All right, sweet, no worries. I went to a beef or women pals, ended up partying there for a week, come back. And then the day I got back, gets a phone call. Someone's been injured. You need to fly out tomorrow morning and fight in Australia. In my head. I'd been around to bend me. I was going, oh, what do you mean?   Got on a flight, 24 hours to Australia for this kid, Patrick, I died. She was nine and all beating. Then I got to the semifinal and lost the Norman Park. Who ended up winning the show. But what an experience. Me, eight weeks in a house. Or 12 of us, 12 of them, 24. I just all stuck in a gap together. Was against him, country against country. And yeah, that was my first real shot at success. And then as soon as I came back from that, me, I was like, this is, this is definitely for me now.  And that was me full time. How was it for the loss on that show? Sweet. Didn't care because I was so young. And I was like, the guy, Norman Park, it was about 22 and five at the time. And I was four and all. I shouldn't have even been in the cage of him. He was only because we was on this mad show and I was a reserve. Got the call. But I give Norman a really tough fight. He still says it's his toughest fight. This day, Norman went on to do great things in the sport. So I knew from 19 years old, this is me, me. I really did. So how many promotions have you been in since then? Loads, 40 in ACB, in Russia, Germany, for Bama, for, had my own show for a while that I fought on. UFC, obviously. PFL. I've done the rounds, mate. Yeah. What ones have been the best? ACA was good because it was run by some mad Russians and they used to just get paid cash in at the end. Well, their ones. Yeah. Dollar bills at the end. Come to this old tower and give it a little knock. And they did a massive show at the MEN Arena. And the guy that I lost to in the UFC, he actually put me a rematch against him in the MEN. Headlined that and I knocked him out in the first round. Mike Wilkinson. So I got to avenge that loss. That was a big one for me. But yeah, they've all been good to me. I've had a mad journey for all over the world. That was my 41st fight the other day. That's how long, yeah. I've really been through the trenches in it. Yeah. So again, UFC was at 2017, 2018, 2019. Was it a contender? Yeah. You won, but you still never got a contract. Yeah. Loads of controversy. What was the controversy about that shit? Because people still talk about that. Mate, it's more than that in people's heads. It's mad. So what happened was I went on a mad streak after that loss in the ultimate fight. Mad streak was beating everyone. I was number one in Europe for years. I just wouldn't get inside. And I thought, what the fuck's going on? Did you do anything?  Mate, everybody's saying that to me.  What did you do? Did you strike David's bird? That's so beautiful, mate. And I was like, nah, I can't think of anything. And then anyway, they put me on the shoulder contender. But contenders for guys that are like 4 and 0, 5 and 0, just coming up. At that time, I was 20 and 3 years old, mate. It was like, what are you doing going on there? So they gave me the toughest fight they could find. They gave me a guy who was a champion on the East Coast in two weight divisions, who everyone thought was going to wipe me up. And then put me on this show. But then Tyson Fiori, Till, Marcus Rashford, Bugs in my Lone, all of them are sending out these good luck videos. It caused a massive thing. I had landed in Vegas and everyone was like, this is our guy. I was just thinking, who the fuck's he? He's just come out of nowhere. And then went in, wiped the floor with a guy, batted him. And then Dana just made this mad call. There's loads more to it. And I was like, nah, nah. He made up that I went for a takedown in the last minute. And the whole MMA world was like, what are you talking about, mate? It was the most controversial thing that happened on the show. And then ultimately, PFL picked me up a month later and looked at me. It's the best thing that ever happened to me. You don't get that sort of money in the UFC anyway, do you? A million dollars for one fight. Plus what I earned in the pre-season, mate, I'm a lot like, yeah. So when a million dollars, mate, in MMA, it's probably 99% I've never done that. Even the champions in it, mad that. Yeah. Compared to boxing. Yeah, it's not. See if you were in the UFC, you got signed. Do you think you'd be anywhere near a million? I made five and five for that fight. $10,000 I made. Fast forward three years. I just fought for a million dollars. Some of the top 20 fighters on that are only $10,000 a fight.  And I'm on double treble with these guys, full professionals who give their whole career for me.  Well, I cried my eyes out, mate, after they can send a thing. That's all they ever wanted. And me corner team were like, listen, lad, this is the best thing that ever happens to you. Your phone's going to be ringing. Your door's going to be knocking. And it did, mate. The offers that were coming in. People seen it and were like, he's young. He's talented. He can talk on a mic. He can do it, but he's exciting. So the offers were massive. And PFL just blew everyone else out of the water. It was like October. They said, we'll give you two fights for the end of the year. One will be at the Mandalay Bay. One will be at the Mandalay Square Garden. And then we'll give you four fights in six months. We'll just give you unbelievable activity. And for me as a fighter, I just love being active. I want to be active. It's my job. It's what I love to do every day. I don't want to waste my best years in the gym. So when they offered me that amount of activity, I just took it a bit of a run-off. And yeah, mate. You've not looked back.  So PFL, when you won them all, what was it? Eight fighters? Ten fighters? At first, it was 12 last year. And I got to the semis and lost a split decision to the champion, my lead, a rushing guy. And then I just swore to myself, I'm like, can't lose again. Did they do this every year? Every year, they just spin it, yeah. Are you going to do another one next year? I don't know, mate. I don't know. It's hard work.  It is. That's life changing.  That's everything you've dreamed of. With that, because you had so much love for your, all the sports channels, Sky Sports, BBC Sports, like everybody back to you, every message on social media. It was all for yourself. Do you think that will open a lot more doors for people to join this company? Well, it's already signed quite a lot more. Don't forget, I was the first English fighter in there. I was the first guy to ever go in there, books in the UK. Even the owner Pete Murray and the great people, mate, they're really good ambassadors for the sport. They're on Channel 4, they're on ESPN. They're making all the right moves. And they're out millions, mate. Six mil to give out that night. Six champions, six mil. And it was like, it doesn't happen. They call it the richest night in MMA, and it is. And I'm not going to say they're losing purse, but it's tiny, mate. And it's like, your whole life is on the line. Imagine, someone said to you, remember in primary school, and you say, what would you do for a million pound? What would you actually do when I was into that cage that night? Nobody was beating me, mate. I was going to die. I was quite happy in signing the death certificate that night and going, if it don't work out, shitter me out and just bury me, mate. That's what I was thinking, mate. That's some mentality, and that's why I've got it. That's the way fighters should be paying, though. That sort of money, like the UFC's always known for it. But it's the sponsorships and other things that the UFC can provide, the social media platform and all the other stuff that you can't provide. You even see Jake Paul in that calling UFC out for not paying their fighters well enough. Do you think a lot of fighters from the UFC can potentially jump ship for other money? Well, I mean, you've got Shane Burgos. Shane Burgos was the top 10 UFC fighter for February and his contract was up.  Yeah, yeah, Shane.  Really good. And he's in the tournament next year. But Shane got pulled in and his negotiation was up with the UFC. And he's the fan favorite at the UFC and they were like, PFL just doubled him or whatever they did and then he just went, you know what? And he was the first big guy to do it. Like to go, you know what? Like I'm off.   So I think that might be the start of things to come because if you think about it, you can't forget that we're actually prize fighting. Like people forget that. Like you've got to pay your bills. Like I don't want to be driving the bus at the end of fighting, mate. I really don't. I put all this effort in. I want to be financially secure. I'm a family financially secure but people forget that. They do and think of the three letters and it polarizes them. It does. Yeah. So see when that tournament come up again, what were you thinking in your mind because it's all world class fighters that where were you ranked on the bookies favorites as well? Were you underdog? I don't know. I don't know that bit but Do you check any of that when you're fighting? Well, the semis was the biggest fight for me because the semis was against the favor to win the whole thing Chris Wade and I was a three to one underdog in that fight alone and Chris is a dangerous fighter, mate and he was talking the talk as well.  It's really good, mate. Like, for example, how good he is. You give Islam Makatyev his hardest fight in the UFC.  I knew that anyone that comes in and just relies on wrestling against me I know it's not enough to beat me so I knew that in the final I would be able to take him out and I did. See, how's your training? How did your training go for this? Like, why were you so focused? You've always been focused anyway but in discipline but why was it different this time? Why did it as if you were hitting hard or kicking hard a little? Was it the everything you've... because I know you've spoke about your mum a few times and paying off her mortgage and the support that your families gave you but what was the mindset? Like, why was everything... you seemed to have just blew everybody out of the water? It's true, mate. I think the first two fights of the season I wasn't really myself. I told me MCL 10 days out from the Ray Oji Kudo fight the first fight of the season and I just cried my eyes out of me. I was like, wow, the whole season is done and I have to put me on the next card and they said, nah, you can't. Basically in the PFL if you miss one fight you're out of the tournament.  I thought, I thought I'd lost it, mate and then I just really bit down on my gum shield went back to training seen two different mind coaches and I think that might have been changed because my coach was like, listen you train harder than all these guys so whatever it is it's mental it's not physical so I started really working on this I started putting pictures of the belt around my gaff, started like speaking to this mind coach two, three times a week and just it really, really changed me as a fighter maybe that's what it is maybe it's not maybe it's the hard work maybe it's a combination of everything but I can't pinpoint one thing The belief system does that work on a lot of attraction? It could be, mate, yeah even now it's a screen save on my phone I need to make new goals now it's still all around my gaff I've not pulled the pictures down that belt I've been seeing that belt now for the last four or five months every single morning wake up and it's just there on my phone checker thing it's there it's just like maybe you're right but how does if you were in the UFC now a fairly big division like where do you rank?    I must be and again at 33 people peak in MMA much later you look at the list of UFC champions 36, 37, 38 isn't it mad? why is that?    Why is that?


Kiss I know you need it do you feel it drink Thank you Sorry I've been watching Santa Clarita diet So I've got a text from my mom this morning Oh yeah my mom actually texted me If you don't know I'm 22 now I'm getting old It's my birthday today This one feels like thick Oh my Oh Oh it's one of these Oh my god Who have a happy and healthy year ahead Thank you very happy birthday Lots of love from Rina Thank you Rina Oh my gosh though My mom's wedding now Thank you I've just been downstairs I'm not very talented opening boxes Oh Do you have knees? I've got earsache It's probably me isn't it Do you want to know how bad the look I have The cat My bag Exploded The cat Am I lagged? I'm a worry No it's slow because I'm you know Peek-a-boo Mini bedroom Yes And I'm about to get in the bed with you So we're watching Harry Potter Becca's showing me the destruction box Look at this thing I got I got it from the works So it says positive vibes And when you push it The lead to achieve Yeah That's amazing We also watched Harry Potter and it was great Yeah it was so cool We literally talked for the whole time So I said I was going to do a live stream on my birthday And I can't do it My phone doesn't have the ability to go on to a scheduled live stream to do it I'm having an allergic reaction to Becca's cat And you just hugged me in your story don't Yeah I did So Becca's in bed and I'm on the chair I'm literally only over here because my phone is on charge I'm ending my vlog here with a human In another human's bedroom Because my camera is flashing red Yes And it will want to survive until I get home And we're gonna film a drive with us It was nothing I just felt something on my leg It wasn't anything She's losing it I'm gonna film a drive with them Birthday Birthday girl We have McDonald's too And the Uber driver So lost Don't know how Even I remember the way Yeah I'm a big girl now She's a big girl She's qualified Yes Thank you for watching another vlog Let's say I'll get killed in Becca's car Yes Do you want to end my video by smacking the camera? It's smack the lens Not Christmas This is supposed to be magic 100% Christmas This song is not Christmas This is not Christmas It's both girls I mean to be fair there's poor people that wear magic