Hey everybody today we're debating who is Muhammad and we're starting right now with Muji's opening statement Thanks so much for being with us Muji. The floor is all yours. All right. Thank you for the opportunity. Yeah, I I became atheist at 25 because I couldn't see any evidences for existence of God Not because there were no evidences, but because I couldn't see them Many years later when I got more knowledge. I realized that I was wrong I didn't convert Islam because Allah is God or Muhammad was his messenger But because God sent us many prophets to solve our problems He created us like all other Creatures as animals But the smartest animals in order to communicate with us and to guide us to Out of the jungle we are living in We are living in a jungle, but a modern one Animals is not a form but a way of life which the most important behavior of animals Life is selfishness Me just me.  No killings. No drugs. No bad deeds at all That utopia is possible To become reality by the guidance of almighty god Human is either a form But a way of life The more you sacrifice for your own kind the more human you are God sent us prophets not to solve just problems, but All of not to solve just few problems, but all of them entirely Did he solve any problems those who denied? Should read the history Just a few example are what the romans and greeks used to do in those stadiums where they Forced the slaves to butcher each other and they were Cheering and loving it or they used to stone or sacrifice Crucify people all those barbaric acts disappear by the beautiful message of jesus peace reform Persian empire never used such a barbaric acts despite it was the biggest empire in 2500 years ago Why because persian followed a message of a messenger of god who thought them only three main teachings good deeds Good words and good speech only with these three teachings We had cyrus the great who was a liberator and had the first human rights modes in the history And he's still loved by the jews because he freed them and let them go back to their land Now did god solve all our problems? No, if he want to solve all our problems. Yes, so For that he Gave his final message to the prophet Muhammad peace be upon him, but why we still Have so many problems because our problems are too complicated and the solution is also complicated So it was too early for the people of the past to understand it But now in 21st century the time has come for people to understand it and accept it This is what i'm trying to do and if we get enough time We may talk about the solution today. I want to Teach david wood a great message of jesus peace reform which was love one another And love your neighbors as yourself. This is not quantum physics that david wood doesn't understand What does that mean?  You find every rubbish fabricated hadiths or any terrible incident happens in islamic world to demonize Entire islam and muslims I never say anything against christians or other religions despite followers of other religions do a lot of Crimes against humanity because i know there are so many loving people among christians Who wants to be my friend if they believe that islam is what you apis and taliban describe and present? Do do i have to explain? For everyone that i don't believe in that stupid religion you apis and taliban claim to be islam I converted to islam for the solution to all our problems now if david wood Proves me that christianity has the solution to a single major problems we have today like drug problem Then i convert to christianity right now because if one major problem is solved totally then all Will be solved as the source of all problems is what? This is my statement and we will talk more i i don't have more to say now Thank you very much for that Opening statement moody We are going to jump into the next opening statement from david wood Should also be 12 minutes and want to say thanks so much folks for being with us Whether you be muslim atheist christian you name it We are glad you are here as we're a neutral channel hosting debates on science religion and politics Thanks so much david the floor is all yours Thank you james and thank you moody for challenging me to debate and for presenting your perspective on mohammad so who was mohammad I've been thinking about that question for a long time my muslim friends tell me that he was a prophet and that's moody's perspective as well But lots of people down through history Have claimed To be prophets there are people in the world today who claim to be prophets They contradict each other on all kinds of revelations So they can't all be right and so what we have to do is test them examine them and see Whether they're real prophets and when we examine these prophets we have to consider three main possibilities one The person who claims to be a prophet could be getting revelations from his own mind So these revelations could have a purely human origin whether the person is deliberately deceiving people whether he knows he's just making up revelations Or whether he's you know deluded or insane and actually thinks that he's getting revelations We have to consider the possibility that a person is getting revelations from his own from his own mind Second we have to consider the possibility That something Darker may be at work So a person could be getting revelations, but actually be getting them from something other than god So christians muslims and others believe in demonic forces And so we have to consider the possibility that someone is getting revelations from demons And the third possibility would be that someone is actually getting revelations from god in which case we should believe those revelations um, so It's important to examine someone like muhammad In light of these three possibilities. Did his revelations come from his own mind? Did they come from demons? Did they come from god? Let's think about the evidence When we ask ourselves what evidence there is that muhammad was getting his revelations from his own mind So his revelations had a human origin We find that islam really seems like a religion that came from the mind of a seventh century arabian caravan robert Because islam is basically a collection of teachings and practices that were present in arabia during muhammad's time Jewish monotheism had spread into many communities in arabia along with biblical and non biblical stories about various prophets Teachings about jesus and mary that were popular in certain groups were being taught in arabia Things like jesus speaking at birth jesus giving life to clay birds mary giving birth under a palm tree and so on The sabbians who are mentioned in the caran prayed at all five of the times That muslims pray during their daily prayers and they recited a creed la ilaha illallah muslims recite this creed today Many of the polytheists of arabia Performed ablutions these ceremonial washings. They took an annual pilgrimage to mecca. They circled the kaba They kissed the black stone that supposedly fell from heaven All of these teachings and practices became a part of islam Which means that islam is exactly the sort of religion we would expect to arise in seventh century mecca in seventh century mecca So we have good reasons to think that islam had a human origin The mind of a man who was deeply affected by the teachings and practices that surrounded him a man who felt comfortable plagiarizing everyone else's sources Here we could add That many of muhammad's so-called revelations Had no purpose other than satisfying his perverted desires He received a revelation telling him to marry a prepubescent girl He received a revelation telling him to marry the divorced wife of his own adopted son After he caused the divorce by lusting after He received a revelation telling him that he could violate the four wife limit He received a revelation telling him to break an oath He made to his wives after he swore that he would stop having sex with his slave girl All of this looks very very man made But we should also look to see if there might be something Darker at work Here we find plenty of evidence suggesting that forces beyond muhammad were involved in his teachings We know from muslim records that when muhammad began receiving revelations His first impression was that he was demon possessed And if you read about muhammad's experience with whatever it was that roughed him up in that cave You'll see that first impressions are often correct We also know that after his experience in the cave He became suicidal and tried to hurl himself off a cliff According to the earliest muslim sources muhammad was tricked into delivering a revelation from the devil These are the so-called satanic verses where Allah gave muslims permission to pray to three pagan goddesses muhammad revealed these verses as part of the Quran But he later came back and said Sorry, the devil made me do it We also know from muslim sources that muhammad claimed that he was a victim of black magic A spell that gave him delusional thoughts and false beliefs on top of all this if you read Accounts of what happened to muhammad when he was receiving revelations. It's like you're reading a screenplay from an exorcist film So muhammad's first impression of his revelations was that he was demon possessed his revelations made him suicidal Even muslim sources claim that he delivered a revelation from the devil And that he was a victim of black magic and the way he received revelations was thoroughly demonic It seems that we don't just have evidence that muhammad's revelations had a human origin We also have good evidence of spiritual problems the question now Is whether there's any evidence that muhammad's revelations came from god What evidence do we have that muhammad's revelations came from god? What evidence has muji given? It sounds like he just said well, I believe that god has sent prophets to solve our problems Even to establish a utopia and he believes that muhammad Was the final one What evidence did he give us? Unless I missed it. I didn't see any other than him saying it So I saw absolutely no evidence in that opening statement that muhammad was A final prophet sent to solve the world's problems Haven't seen any evidence for that claim other than muji saying it so I guess all we would have to go on there is muji's belief that muhammad was sent to solve the world's problems and if muji if that's what you believe I have to say muhammad did a pretty terrible job of it like the worst job of solving the world's problems ever Uh, if I were if I were to be as generous as possible um I would and that I have in the past granted that Uh, muhammad did do something to stop female infanticide Um, and so I think that it's commendable that he stopped female infanticide So if anyone doesn't know what that is, uh, there was the same thing in the roman empire that christians Uh, eventually outlawed, uh, that's where if you had a bunch of children and you didn't want daughters You'd just you just throw your daughters somewhere throw them into a river throw them out in the desert something like that to get rid of them Um, and if the muslim sources are correct then muhammad condemned that practice and put an end to it in arabia So we could commend him for that apart from that what? What problems has muhammad stopped and what problems would his revelations stop if they were taken seriously? Um, and I mean the koran says that jews and christians are the worst of creatures that surah 98 verse 6 koran says that uh Muslims are the best of peoples ever raised up for mankind. So wherever islam goes you end up with this uh This is the the upper class and then the second class citizens. So that's not that's not solving the world's problems What else do we have? We have polygamy We have the problem of wife beatings or a four verse 34 of the koran We have uh jihad Against unbelievers. So fight those who do not believe in allah. That's a command has led to all kinds of violence in the world We've got what we've got child marriage. That's in the koran and the hadith We've got female genital mutilation We have these ongoing problems and you can look at statistics about the worst places in the world to be a woman and Whoever whoever puts the data together ends up claiming that 11 of the top 12 worst places in the world to be a woman are muslim majority countries Or they'll say that you know 16 of 18 or 18 of 20 Islam just does a terrible job at making places That are good for women Beyond that if islam is here to solve the world's problems My goodness. I mean muslims have dozens of countries where They can live under islamic law and where they have the majority Which of those countries are places where people would actually want to live? Who says hey, I want to go to this muslim country because of the great You know scientific education you get there. You don't it's muslims fleeing muslim countries to get to western nations Where you have tons of christians and atheists so again if muhammad was here To solve the world's problems did a terrible terrible terrible job Apart from and there's really nothing else that Muji said that I would have to respond to as part of the argument So I can just go off topic a little with what he said. He advised me to Love my neighbors said I can't chew on someone's book. I could just point out About two minutes left. Um, I don't regard that as unloving if you look at that situation If you look at that situation you had muhammad a job threatening the apostate prophet's wife with rape and torture And advising his followers and he has hundreds of thousands of them hundreds of thousands of followers Advising them to go out and do the same to harass harass the wives Of critics of islam with threats of rape and torture heaping abuse and insults on them And what did I do I did exactly what the karan says the karan says that if I want to stop people with the insults I what I say, hey, I'm going to insult your religion so I told muhammad hijab if you're going down this road of Threatening people's wives Then I'll eat your book That's exactly what the karan says. That's the purpose of surah 6 verse 108 of the karan.  We're going to insult Allah and that's when muhammad received the revelation Stop insulting their gods if they're going to insult you So if Allah didn't want me doing that, uh, you shouldn't have revealed that So I'll just say I don't regard it as unloving to stop someone from horrible behavior I don't regard it as unloving to make someone stop abusing and harassing Women so I think that is loving and all I can say now is We have no evidence at all that muhammad is a true prophet All we have is evidence that he received revelations from his own mind and that some may have been demonic You got to thank you very much for that opening as well David would and want to let you know folks many juicy upcoming debates for example tonight actually Cat and dr. E michael jones are debating whether or not porn has a net negative effect on society You don't want to miss it hit that subscribe button So you don't miss upcoming juicy debates with that we're going to jump into the rebuttal sections So these are seven minutes apiece starting with you muji. Thanks so much. The floor is all yours Thank you. Uh, yeah, I would like to say, uh, uh, of course the David mentioned a lot of different things For example, he said that muslims run from their country To come to the west unfortunately, uh, that's uh goes to to To politic which i'm sure that uh, david has not so good knowledge of that because I am 42 years involved in politic and I know what west has done To not only muslim countries, but uh, every countries even in latin america They run away come to to u.s.  David would usa and uk didn't Made a coup d'etat against our beloved democratic Prime minister dr. Mossad in 1953 and put a dictator in power and when we made a blind Revolution in 1979 against that dictator that was puppet of the west Ayatollah bbc, we call it radio bbc persia Guided us to a backward extremist caveman called ayatollah homey He will they were the propaganda machine for this caveman ices guy Ayatollah homey because they were believing that if The leftist group take the power in iran Would join soviet union that's why they they Act they took this barbaric man Innocent those, you know modern democratic Other alternatives so and uh in all these 42 years they have been supporting this dictator regime Only your president obama paid them over hundred billion dollars in 2015 when iranian regime was going to fall So this is politic and you don't want to go there because we run away from the dictators and the bombs you You know your dictators drop out on us So we don't run away because for example my home country is could be the richest country on the planet We have so much oil so much gas So uh, why we run away? Why have I have left my home country which I love because uh, there is a dictator Government there and we want to bring it down and unfortunately the best The only one I can say the only one who in all these years stood against iranian fascist regime was donald trump He put the hardest sanction on the godfather of ices the central bank of international You know terrorism, which is iranian regime But now joe biden is trying very hard to you know to help them from falling and they try but Fortunately, there is a lot of resistance in in the you know in the Congress against Joe biden to go back to that deal with the fascist regime of iran. So iran Get all those money and send it to syria to iraq to yemen to lebanon arm never just His bullet has seven hundred million dollars a year budget from iraq. So don't please say that These problems happening in muslim world is because of his love and mohammed hijab I'm myself fighting these extremists 42 years i've been fighting the extremists. I have been banned by this Blocked by these extremist YouTubes like yif davah sapien institute all of them and You you yes you you said the other things like beating wives and so on if we get time I will talk about those issues as well, but None of them have anything to do with this law Yes, we can talk do that in In the next section because I would like to ask direct questions from david Thank you very much moji for that rebuttal we'll kick it over to david for his rebuttal Want to remind you folks our guests are linked in the description You can click on those links to learn more about our guests. Thanks so much david the four is all yours All right. Well am I opening statement? I pointed out that When we're examining someone who claims to be a prophet there are three possibilities that we should consider First the person might be getting revelations from his own mind He might be deliberately inventing revelations or he might be insane But it's clear that some so-called revelations have a purely human origin Second person might be getting revelations from demonic sources actually receiving revelations But these revelations just don't come from god come from somewhere else And third someone who claims to be a prophet may genuinely be receiving revelations from god in which case we should believe him So I showed that we have good reasons to think that Muhammad was getting his revelations From his own mind if you take the teachings and practices that were Circulating and circulating in arabia during the time of Muhammad and you roll them all up into a ball You get something that looks a lot like Islam and Muhammad kept receiving revelations that had no purpose other than satisfying His perverted desires. How did muji respond? He said maybe we'll talk about some of this in uh in our discussion. So i'm fine with that Next I showed that we also have good reasons to think that something demonic was at work in the life and teachings of Muhammad Muhammad's first impression of his revelations was that he was demon possessed His revelations made him suicidal Even muslim sources claim that he delivered a revelation from the devil and that he was a victim of black magic And the way he received revelations was thoroughly demonic. How did muji respond? He didn't so notice so far. We have no reason to doubt That Muhammad was receiving revelations from his own mind and that there was something demonic at work In at least some of his revelations So my entire case is standing and we're almost at the end of the rebuttal period Uh, finally I said that we have no reason whatsoever to think that Muhammad was actually a prophet Uh, muji, uh, argued uh in his opening that Uh, Muhammad well, he just claimed that Muhammad was sent to solve the world's problems I pointed out that if Muhammad was actually sent to solve the world's problems If that's what his purpose was especially to establish some utopia Where all our problems are solved I said that Muhammad did a really really bad job of this Muhammad did a really really bad job um, and then I pointed out that As evidence that Muhammad has done a bad job if that's why he sent if that's why he was sent that People are fleeing the muslim world as rapidly as they can and this is where muji actually offered a response He said muslims fleeing muslim countries That has to do with politics and he complains about western nations interfering in muslim countries I'll say two things here one no objection from me that western nations Screw up other parts of the world. They'll say, uh, some regime that they don't like and they'll say Oh, we'll help this other regime topple that regime and they don't realize that maybe Very frequently the other regime that they're going to support in toppling the regime They don't like could turn out to be much worse and it just wasn't in power and then they helped it get to power So no disputing that my point is My point entire my point still stands right if uh, if Muhammad was sent to solve the world's problems And here we are 14 centuries later. Islam hasn't solved any of the world's problems And it can't stand up against western nations. I mean, again, there are dozens of muslim majority countries some of them are sitting on Sees of oil under the ground Um, why can't they solve the world's problems using these wonderful teachings of Muhammad that were given to solve the world's problems I can only conclude and by the way, this is indisputable If Muhammad was sent if that's the reason that Muhammad was sent to solve all of the world's problems and to establish some sort of utopia He's just done the most horrible job of anyone in history Um, and I'll just I'll just go ahead and give you my perspective on this Um, Islam is not has never been and never will be a solution to Any problems even though you could point to something like I think muji said something about Tobacco if you wanted to say I have no idea what Islam is going to do about tobacco or something like that Uh, but let's suppose that in the Quran you find some verse that says Outlaw tobacco or banned tobacco or something like that if you found something like that Islam would still not be the solution to Tobacco if that's what you're concerned about because it's the solution would be worse Than the problem you're trying to deal with in other words I I don't smoke but I would rather smoke all my life and die of lung cancer Then convert to the teachings of Islam because I believe that's how horrible They are so when when muji is saying that Islam is a solution to any of the problems that we currently face And i'm thinking about the size of the problem that he's talking about and the number of problems that Islam would bring If we brought in Islam to solve the problem It's like muji is saying it's like I come to muji and I say Man, I got a problem. Muji says hey, what's your problem? I say, oh man I got a I got a I got a toothache my my tooth is really hurting back here And he says no problem. I've got the solution. I say really. What's the solution?  Well, that's true that would that would sort of solve the the problem of my toothache in a weird way But the solution would be worse than the problem that I was actually dealing with and so Islam is not has is not has never been never will be a solution to Any of the world's problems. Finally, muji says that he's been He's been fighting extremists for years. That's certainly commendable But if he's talking about extremists within islam, then why do you have those extremists within islam? it's because Allah and muhammad commanded things like fight those who do not believe in Allah Muhammad said I've been commanded to fight people until they say there's no god but Allah We have commands to kill apostates These are the commands that you have and these are the commands that people who believe in muhammad follow So when you fight against the extremists you're fighting as people who are taking Your prophet's revelations very seriously more seriously than you are And so here we are at the end of the rebuttal period and once again based on all of the evidence we've seen so far We have to conclude that muhammad was a false prophet Thank you very much. David for that opening or I should say for that rebuttal section We're going to jump into the open discussion and want to remind you folks are guests are linked in the description Thanks so much gentlemen. The floor is all yours for open discussion What do you want to what do you want to talk about muji? All right, yes I'm sure that we cannot, uh, you know reach You know an agreement pardon my interruption Muji your volume is just a little bit lower than when we did the sound test at the start I'm not sure if you've made me move just a I didn't touch anything Oh, maybe I don't know. I didn't touch anything and I didn't move Do you hear me? Yeah, that's better. That's better. All right. Okay. Very good. Yeah Yeah, I just said that I don't think that we can solve all problems In this discussion, but we can shortly talk about many of them. Okay revelation You said revelation from his mind But what I read in Quran that was even if it was from his mind first of all, um, I was talking to an atheist A professor atheist. I said if these prophets that you claim That were, you know, God doesn't exist then all these prophets they were a bunch of Shallotans because they lied or they were, you know, some they had some delusions And if they were liars Shallotans then how come they put their lives in danger and they Brought us so many beautiful, you know revelations and commands and if Prophet Muhammad was one of them as well that you play Then he the Quran he brought us was a beautiful book and Another thing is that of course when you Read Quran I'm sure that you Don't understand the true meaning of Quran I will come to that as well but You were asked saying as well, you know, Muslim countries sitting on oil why they cannot solve The problems of the world Or something like that. You said first of all, I I told you as well that it's not only Muslim countries that Are in such a problem.  Okay entire africa and they are they are not just Muslim countries in africa So the problem is deeper is because of as I told you from beginning is because of the jungle and its rules So everybody wants to become richer and many people abuse religion as well like my home country iran The the mullahs there.  I never said that the solution is Banning tobacco the solution. I will talk to you about that as well. Let's see why Christianity Why god solves some problems in the past which I mentioned that christian had solved many problems thanks jesus christ And thanks moses and all other prophets. Okay, but why god didn't solve all our problems Did he want to solve few problems or he wanted to solve all problems david in in your opinion Um, I I don't believe that that prophets came to solve all problems and to establish a My question was that they solved some problems Why god god wanted to solve those problems or he didn't want to solve that just happened um I mean, if you look at what the prophets say they say you're going to have problems All the way up until the judgment So you're not you're not getting any sort of any sort of utopia But let me just go back to the couple things you said because I actually agree with you on on some things So, uh, you you brought you brought up you said that in your discussion with an atheist friend You were saying hey if prophets were charlatans if they're just making things up then why did they risk their lives and I actually agree with that criterion That's why I I believe that mohammed believed that he was a prophet right and I would use the same criterion The general rule is called liars make poor martyrs If someone's going out and risking his life Um claiming that he's got a revelation from god Chances are he believes it because if he didn't believe it then as soon as his life was at risk He would want to uh change the story a little bit. Um, you said I don't understand the true meaning of The koran, uh, if that's correct then The koran has a problem because I mean you've got 14 centuries worth Of muslim scholars who would say a lot of the exact same things about islam that I say So, you know people like ibn abbas and ibn kathir and the two jalals and all the way down to modern scholars like mo duty would say Very similar things about us about the koran that I would say and they would disagree with you and so if they're actually Reading the koran and reading the arabic and they're coming to completely different conclusions From the from the conclusions you're coming to and I'm agreeing with them Then it seems like I mean if you're if you're the only person who actually understands the true meaning of these passages And all of islam's best scholars for 14 centuries have been getting this wrong Then it sounds like the koran itself is so hopelessly unclear that it can't be the solution to the world's problems because it's just not clear You said that the the iranian mullahs are bad. We're on the same page there and Then we got to the solution to problem. So what were you what were you saying about? about solutions to problems and I said that the the the source of the problems are You know the the rules of the jungle that allows people by the way But but can you give examples of what you're talking about because you're saying rules of the jungle And i'm not sure exactly what you're talking about so give us some examples The rules of the jungle is that you are stronger you get the more you get more you are weaker you get least less so In this jungle You can kill millions of people and become Billionaire like as I said the mullahs of iran for example this current Leader in iran. He didn't have a flat You know before the revolution he he was renting flat now He's over 100 billion dollars rich. Okay by killing millions of people.  So about coran Yeah, I was Saying that the the rules allows those people to kill all these people and become billionaires. Okay Anyway, about the the the coran that you said I will prove you that Of course, I'm not the only one and there are so many people if you check Is it possible to share a screen or something or you can maybe share James can you please check that chapter four verse 30 34 Uh, let's see. It's one thing or if you want me to share it Yeah, I can definitely if you want to click screen share the only reason I'm Has it's in on my side is if I pull up too many windows. OBS starts to slow down on me I don't know how to share because you are zoom. I don't know how to share We we uh, we know we know sir a four verse 34 pretty well. So I want to know I want to show you so many different You know different Translation, okay. So it's not only me. There are other people who Believe the same. Okay. So and the translation is there I just would like to see if What is it? If I should share it or Sure, that it's a little easier for me because sometimes OBS otherwise will slow down on me I'm updating my laptop soon. But if you go to the center stream yards, I would know how to share it But because I know we're but don't worry zooms pretty easy to the bottom center of your window There's a green button with a little share share screen. Yes. You bet. So shall I share it or sure you can feel for you right now We're ready for you. Okay. Let me see In the meantime, I want to remind you folks our guests are linked in the description That includes if you're listening via the podcast we put our guest links in the description there as well And and and why uh while muji is pulling that up. I'll I'll just break down the the uh, the relevance So sort of four verse 34 is the famous, uh, wife beating verse of the Quran and uh, so In in normal translations, we would use it says that if your wife is Uh, rebellious in some way and there will be different translations of that Then there was this uh, these three different options for you And some would list it as you know going in order and so one would be you admonish her So you warn her about what it is that you're upset about To you banish her to a separate bed And the final step would be You beat her or you scourge her and so we look at that verse and we say, uh, wow This is advocating wife beating. That's how it was interpreted in the hadith Where, uh, husbands would I mean in in Sahih Al-Bukhari There was a husband who beat his wife until her skin turned green And so very very horrible passage and definitely responsible for a lot of the Oppression and abuse of women in muslim countries today And I think where muji's going with this is he's going to say That there are different translations of the of this and maybe some of these translations Wouldn't say that this involves beating women. So I'm guessing that's where it's going Because it's a little bit getting time now. Do you agree that there are other Translations or I shall I shall find it for you Let me see four. Okay four. I found it four very four Okay All right now. I want to share all right. I found it and I want to share it Share screen Yes Do you see it now? Uh, you'll have to click on the window that you want to share. There you go. There. Okay So let me see. Um This uh Change your ways Okay, so Muhammad Muhammad Assad says then beat them Yes, yes, and then There are uh, let me see find there were some who say leave leave them Uh, you're looking for that third one. They are saffi Kaskas never heard of that before. Yeah, saffi kaskas and there are others as well. Okay, so it is not how we we can Okay chapter How we can understand these uh words. Let me see. I'll go back to I'll go back I want to I don't know how to okay stop sharing. Okay, okay All right This is a little bit difficult. Yes, uh chapter three verse seven Okay I will read it for you Chapter three verse seven says how to to read Korah Uh, it is he who has sent down to you. Oh Muhammad the book in it are verses that are precise They are the foundation of the book and others Unspecific as for those whose heart is Corrupted, they will follow that of it. Which is unspecific desiring to create confusion and Uh, and their own interpretation and no one knows it's Interpretation through interpretation except Allah and those filming knowledge and they say we believe in it All of it Is from our lord and no one will be reminded except those of understanding. So it means that David would is definitely not amount Is not Allah and not among those Film in knowledge. So how those film in knowledge? They understand the true meaning of chapter four verse three 34, sorry Is that they put it uh that Let me find it strike They put this Verse, okay First of all, you have to with it beside the Precise verses of Korah, which Allah is the most merciful most You know forgiving most Just so these verse if it is wife beating is definitely goes against those foundation of Koran and now If we put it beside other verses of Koran, okay Uh, we see that strike has been used in many different Verses of Koran with different meanings In Koran verse 4 35 the strike is ignore In the Koran verse For 101 strike is travel 1811 strike is cover 2077 strike is search and many other different meanings now The the the verse itself when you put it first of all If Allah came to uh, you know because Allah said that when you enter want to enter someone's house Knock on the door get permission before you enter if people used to do this And Allah said that then it would be uh a little bit strange and people would say that Why Allah Allah is crazy we we do that but because people were not doing it So Allah sent this message. So people have been beating their wives entire history only during lockdown in Mexico Three four months 1000 women were killed in domestic problems So this wife beating has always been going off if Allah wanted that they beat their wives Then he wouldn't send any, uh, you know Message revelation and say beat your wife because people were doing that So what happens is as a husband, I know that these three steps first one You know advice them second one is to separate bed It's not five minutes or 10 minutes is definitely several nights that you have to separate bed And I know as a husband day after you come down if you're angry you come down and you forget you Become a game, you know love one another and then the the verse next verse 435 says that And in case you fear split between the two Split after he bet her or after he separated her definitely after he's separated he left her Then sent forth a judge from his family and a judge from her family in cows Sorry in case they both are willing to act righteously Allah will cause them to reach an agreement between them Surely Allah is all knowing all aware So it is not that it is not only the husband who has the right But the woman also has the right to come back to that relation or not. Okay, so I've got a just to If you would like to add something, yes Yeah, I just wanted to to respond to some of the things that you've been saying So surah 4 verse 34 of the Quran notice there is a progression of severity That suggests that the the third step is going to be The worst so at first there's a warning then there's banishing them to separate beds and then there's something more severe and Uh Most leaving most trend. Well, you say it's leaving. Um, so uh picthal says Picthal says scourge them Yusuf Ali says beat them, but then it adds in parentheses lightly even though that's not in the text Uh, he let Lee con says beat them and then adds lightly also because it's copying the uh, the Yusuf Ali there mh Shakir Leave them alone and see sleeping places and beat them Arbery Banish them to their couches and beat them polymer Remove them to bed remove them into bed chambers and beat them So it seems very natural for translators to translate this as beat them. Now you're arguing that Uh, that's well, there can be different translations and this word is used in different ways I would have to say a couple of things one you have modern muslim apologists I'm sure you would disagree with them like daniel haki kachu who argues that this is very important in islam That you'd be able to beat your wife's you have muhammad hijab who like you says that this could be translated in different ways He uses that as an argument against Quran only muslims to say that If you don't have something else to go on then you could basically translate this however you want I mean the Quran says, you know, uh strike at their necks When it's talking about fighting the unbelievers strike at their necks And so you could actually think that you know, this third step here is is uh, is is killing your wife If that's all you have to go on and and you're you're you're finally done with her So if you have if you have All of these different interpretations Available it seems like you need something to clarify What the meaning is and so the natural muslim response would be to go to the historical background or to go to the hadith and see How this this verse was implemented. So the historical background According to muslim sources that deal with that explain what the what the uh, what the historical background was Is that a woman came to muhammad to say That her husband had hit her in the face muhammad was about to judge in her favor and say So there would be some retaliation against the man and then Allah revealed surah four verse 34 Saying that he had the right to beat you and muhammad even says I wanted one thing but Allah wanted something else So I wanted retaliation against your husband for hitting you but Allah wanted this and so The verse is a defense of a man beating his wife We also see as I pointed out in the hadiths that Men would beat their wives even until their skin turned green and there was there was no problem with that And then so so if you go outside the Qur'an to look for clarification you It clarifies it in a way that means some some form of beating and so that would be the deciding factor Last thing I just want to mention is you you brought up surah three verse seven of the Qur'an which which That was brought up in response to christians who were pointing out some theological problems with the Qur'an But notice up until then the Repeated claim of Allah throughout the Qur'an was that the Qur'an is perfectly clear So just as one quick example Surah 26 verse two of the Qur'an These are the verses of a book that makes things clear and over and over and over Over in the Qur'an We hear how the Qur'an is clear that its verses are explained in detail Then some christians started attacking the Qur'an theologically and then the claims comes down surah three verse seven That well there are unclear parts as well and people are going to use the unclear parts You know to to attack Islam with their misunderstandings and so how do How do we reconcile the Qur'an's repeated claims to be clear? With the claim that some of it is unclear Well muslim scholars have dealt with that and the general consensus is that The clear parts are the commands. They're the commands that are telling you what to do The unclear parts are theological things that may be difficult to understand So notice the reason Allah would have to be clear in his commands if you're correct And surah four verse 34 is just this unclear thing Well, this is telling you how to treat your wife if you if you fear that she's rebelling against you In some in some way the Qur'an is telling you this is what you need to do in this situation If that's not clear then Muhammad hijab is right You don't know what that verse is saying and you can insert your own meaning into it You can say oh, I'm gonna you know, I'm gonna attack my wife with extreme physical violence because It can mean that or you could do what you're doing and say, you know, I'm gonna I'm just gonna leave her so If if you're telling me that Allah is is that unclear in his commands then The Quran cannot be the solution to problems the Quran cannot be a solution to the problem of the abuse of women Because according to you it's not clear and you can insert whatever meaning you want into the text Okay, now I respond to that it is clear for those firming knowledge Okay, not for everyone is not clear and I told you that how to understand that The the meaning you have to put it beside other verses of Quran For example in chapter 65 verse 6 Let the woman who are undergoing Waiting period leave in the same manner as you leave yourself This is talking about a woman that I have divorced and I don't want to leave with her Maybe I hate even her but Allah command me that That leave in the same manner as you Leave yourself in accordance with your means and do not harass them with the view Of making their lives and misery and if they happen to be With child spend freely on them. This is about Children, but anyway, it teaching people to treat them well Quran for 19 all believers It is not permissible for you to inherit women against their will or mistreat them to make them return some of the Dory as ransom for divorce unless they are Found guilty of adultery treat them fairly if you happen to dislike them You may hate something which Allah turns into the to a great blessing Quran 30 21 Allah talks about Love between wife and husband and it is among his signs that he has created for you Wives from among yourself so that you may find Transquality in them and he has created love and kindness between you surely in his In this there are signs for a people who reflect So suddenly Allah who wants love between husband and wife There he every a child understand that with beating wife. You cannot solve any problem now About the muhammad hijab and you know Daniel Hargadjou I told you that I'm fighting myself I'm blocked by them because they cannot answer my question now Another example for you to to prove you that they have zero knowledge of Islam themselves Read for me chapter 5 verse 38. Please david Sir 5 verse 38. Yes. Yes Any particular translation No, just I think all of them are the same All right, so image Shakir and as for the man who steals and the woman who steals cut off their hands as a punishment For what they have earned and exemplary punishment from Allah and Allah is mighty and wise Can you read others? It's the same all I think I think yeah, I could go So pick thaw as for the thief both male and female cut off their hands Are you talking about the hand cutting part? Good? Yusuf Ali as to the thief male or female cut off his or her hands Helele Khan cut off the wrist joint from the wrist joint the right hand of the thief male or female as a recompense For that which they committed Shakir and as for the man who steals and the woman who steals cut off their hands as a punishment For what they have earned. I think it's enough. Yeah, so Do you know the in arabic Which word is has been used for cut and hand Or chop and hand No, go ahead and enlighten us. Yes. It is at and yet That means Has many 32 times has been used in Quran mean with many different meanings Yad, which is hand has been also used 120 times in Quran with many different meanings now Read for me chapter 12 verse 30 31, please 12 31 Yes, yes 12 31 So when she heard of their sly talk She sent for them and prepared for them a repast and gave each of them a knife and said to Yusuf come forth to them So when they saw him they deemed him great and cut their hands in amazement and said Remote is a law from imperfection. So you're talking about the cutting the hands part Yeah, yeah, can you continue? Um continue read that Okay, they deemed him great and cut their hands in amazement and said remote Is a law from imperfection. This is not a mortal. This is but a noble angel Okay, so this is exactly the same words that has been used in chapter 5 verse 38 there in 5 38 It is chopping hands here They use cut hands because it doesn't make sense that when they were you know cutting Or peeling a fruit. Yeah, they chopped their own hands. It doesn't make sense In reality, it doesn't even make sense that they cut their hands and women didn't scream They became You know romantic and so passion and they were talking no scream no block nothing coran is talking. So that's why It doesn't mean What is it chopping hands that that worse which they all? You know Translated it is interpretation. Allah says in coran, you know that Let me see Allah coran chapter 5 verse 64 those Jews said Allah's hands are tied. It is the day whose hands are tied They are cursed by Allah for what they have said gods both hands are open wide So Allah according this Backward, you know scholars Allah has hands despite it is Clear that Allah nothing is compared to Allah and here Allah Use the hand as You know power so and you cannot tie powers You can stop power. So that tie also becomes stopped So they try to stop Allah's power not Allah's hands and then Allah says that Don't put yourself in hellfire with your own hands.  So chapter 5 38 says that Stop their action action of stealing and next verse next verse 5 39 says that and if they Repent Allah will forgive them. I ask this for it. Okay How can Allah forgive someone that you have already chopped his hands? Okay? He said, you know because it is like that you pass the red light And then the officer capture you stop you and then take your driving license Give you a thousand dollars ticket and tells you that And then you say I repent, please forgive me and then the officer says that okay I forgive you but I don't give you a driver license and you have to pay your thousand Dollar ticket. It doesn't make sense. It's crazy.  So the the verse It says that you know that Stop them and if they you know repent Allah will forgive them. Okay? So and these people they they they translate Quran as we read in chapter three verse seven And these are they these need to be interpretation. Okay, you cannot and then there is another Let me go let me go and respond to some of the stuff you brought up and then we could go on to your next point so back on the On the issue of Beating women into submission You you brought up some other verse some other verses like, you know, don't make women return their dowry and so on A lot Yeah, so verse Surah four verse 34 Specifically is about wives from whom you fear rebellion and it gives you this It gives you this this three-step process. I just want to say if that's not about Beating then the Quran is Hopelessly unclear and the historical background and the way it was interpreted by Muhammad and his followers They they misinterpreted it. So they all got it wrong and it's not until we get down to to you when we actually Finally understand what Allah means you quoted surah 65 verse 6 which as you pointed out is about divorce But this is another perfect example of this problem of the Quran being horribly unclear just two verses before that you have Surah 65 verse 4 Which according to ibn kathir ibn abbas the two jalals maldudi even Muhammad had job Is talking about divorcing Girls that have not reached puberty after you've had sex with them. So that's another perfect example You know, I mean you could you can talk about that or not talk about it I know we as you pointed out we don't have time to to get to everything, but it's another example of Muslims for 14 centuries interpreting a verse in A certain way and if it means something else then it sounds like the text is the problem and this brings us up to The cutting off of hands for 14 centuries for 14 centuries Muslims have interpreted this as chopping off hands and there are places where they actually carry out that punishment Still for thieves you can see horrible videos online where they're actually amputating People's hands and so on for stealing but for 14 centuries that's been interpreted to mean you cut off hands You can just go down the line of every mainstream translation. It's chopping off hands. So Here's my point in all of these verses There are two possibilities either it means what it sounds like it means what it what it has sounded like It means for 14 centuries what Muslims have interpreted it to mean for 14 centuries Or it means something different So those are the two parts it means something different and you're right about the interpretation And you're going to other verses and interpreting the meaning So those are the two those are the two possibilities and I'm saying one is not significantly better than the other so In other words if if you take a verse of the Quran That says if you fear rebellion from your wives Then beat them And it actually means beat them or sir a nine verse 20 It's not a value Yeah, what whatever the point is the point is whatever that means whatever that means Um, or sir a nine verse 29 fight those who do not believe in a love or chopping or chopping off hands All right, I just want to say what the two possibilities are the two possibilities are It means what it has seemed like it means to Muslims for a long time And it it means what it seems like it means to translators who are translating it as You know divorcing prepubescent girls or as Beating women or as the chopping off hands or as to fighting people who don't believe in Allah It either means that or It sounds like it means that to the vast majority of people who've ever interpreted it Even though it doesn't mean that and I'm saying though one of those is not is not tremendously better than the other What's practically speaking as far as because you're it sounds like you're arguing that that Muhammad was sent to solve these practical Situations in the world practically speaking as far as you know, how it would impact us in the world what's the difference between a book that actually calls for chopping off hands and Um having sex with prepubescent girls and fighting unbelievers and beating women in a submission What's the difference between a book that actually calls for those things And a book that just sounds like it's calling for those things to the vast majority of Interpreters down through history But it actually means something different either way Either way you get abuse of women you get violence against unbelievers either way You get all these problems that Islam is causing in the world And so once again if Muhammad was sent to solve the problems horrible job all right, and that's uh if because god has given his command and It is up to people to understand it and why he didn't stand for example There are atheists who say that Like i don't know for sure, you know one of them who says that if god right now light up my Wet napkin. I You know believe in god It's a youtuber Pankrick He always say that but uh god could of course create us perfect. He could create us There was an atheist also. He was asking why he god didn't create us perfect Yeah, he could create us perfect and so on there are so many questions like this, but For those who uh, you know understand and read Quran and why they didn't you know interpret it in the correct way I can play for you a video from sahajid, you know sahajid for sure you have heard about him. He's a youtuber Yeah, yeah, and he got problem with alidawa and You know Muhammad hijab and he was explaining. I have The clip he was explaining that when he was in madina They were those who if you disagree with them, there was a kind of a mafia Yeah, if you disagree with them, they would you know By could by could you if you didn't go with their interpretation? so unfortunately As I read in the beginning many people Who go and become mullahs or priests or so on they go for it is their job They want to you know make a living from that that job and later They don't want to lose their job by going against the mainstream Okay, and they follow the mainstream and they don't want troubles. That's that's the problem Yeah, let me just I'm not I'm not going to disagree with you. I'm going to state where I where I agree with you and then and then you can continue historically Any group that gets in power wants to maintain their control. They want to mean they want to maintain control So this would be I think you're referring to I think I saw it I've only seen a couple of sahajid videos But I think I saw that one where he's saying that it was uh, I think it was the the sullify group that Yeah, they basically they basically start asking you questions as soon as you got there And you were in trouble if if you if you weren't on the same page of them. Yeah, so yeah any group that gets in power and Christians are guilty of this atheists are guilty of this muslims are guilty of this everyone can do this Once you get on once you're once you're at the top You try to you try to maintain That position but when when we're so here's where I would disagree when we're talking about islam We're not talking about this group that that came to power that group that came to power We're talking about people who just study the the muslim sources right now They generally tend to to disagree with your interpretation And they they they tend to to agree with with the mainstream interpretations, but but go ahead I know I just uh, want to say that I Follow an organization a muslim organization that they also have the same interpretation and a beautiful interpretation of islam So anyway, and then after right after this, uh, you know Stream I will go live on my channel those who would like to ask me a question They are welcome and Usually I have my live stream or those who watch it later They they are welcome so that we go deeper because I I'm sure that we don't have time for all this and then about the you know that Verb you said it is nashou's Rebellion you you said in chapter four verse 34 okay chapter four verse 128 that use the same verb nashou's if a woman fear Indifference or neglect from her husband here. They translate it as neglect or difference. Okay, they don't You know, they don't translate it as Rebellion it's but this is the same verb. There is yeah, I'm looking uh, yeah I just want to I just want to point out that that uh, even even in the translations I'm looking at they give a lot of different Translation so the the one I was talking about was picthal He says for those from whom you fear rebellion And then you folly Yusuf Ali says as to those women on whose part you fear Disloyalty and ill conduct Helele Khan says as to those women on whose part you see ill conduct Shakir says as to those on whose part you fear desertion So yeah, yeah, yeah a lot of different You know translation or interpretation now about kufri.  Okay now I would like to I would like you to uh to read this Chapter 16 verse 83 if you you don't mind. Do you say 16 or 60? 16 16 83. Okay. They recognize the favor of Allah yet. They deny it and most of them are ungrateful Okay, and then uh Who are they They they are they Recognize the favor of Allah disbelievers. Yeah, they don't believe yes Can you read more please? Do you have the more translations? Uh, yeah, so 16 verse 83 Pictal they know the favor of Allah and then deny it most of them are ingrates Yusuf Ali they recognize the favor of favors of Allah Then they deny them and most of them are ungrateful creatures Helele Khan they recognize the grace of Allah yet They deny it by worshiping others besides Allah and most of them are disbelievers So they they give the disbelievers And then Shakir uh says ungrateful share Ali says disbelievers Okay, you know I think yes, but this is kafir Most of them are kafir.  That's that's the kufr That's why here Allah says most of disbelievers are kafir not all of them are kafir. Okay, and chapter 98 verse 1 those who commit kufr among the people of the scripture and the polyestes Did not give up kufr until there came to them clear evidence So it is not about all people of this Scripture and not all polyestes It's it's it's it's those who it's those who reject the No, no, no is those who commit kufr. Okay those who commit kufr amount The people so they all of them rejected prophet Muhammad.  So it's talking about those and not all of them not 100% now about you you were saying You know this christian. I think you have people bring up a lot that Because Allah says in chapter 60 verse 8 a lot does not forbid you from those who do not fight you because of Religion and do not expel you from your homes from being righteous towards them and acting justly towards them Indeed Allah loves those who act justly chapter 29 verse 46 and do not argue with the people of the book The scripture except in the way that is best except for those who commit injustice among them and say We believe in that which has been revealed to us and revealed to you and our god And your god is one and we are muslims submitted to him. So there are many other Verses as well talking good about christian and jews And anyway, so I just I just have a quick question based on Well, I'm wondering how you would interpret Certain verses in the light of what you're saying. So I just wanted to ask you about two verses one in chapter 60 You mentioned chapter 60 verse 8 So just wondering if you'd agree with the translation just a few verses earlier surah 60 verse 4 Surah 60 verse 4 which gives abraham as an example But the Let me read the the Shakir here I made Shakir translate this as indeed there is for you a good example in ibrahim abraham And those with him when they said to their people Surely we are clear of you and of what you serve besides Allah We declare ourselves to be clear of you and enmity and hatred have appeared between us and you Forever until you believe in Allah alone. So he says between our two groups There is enmity and hatred between them forever until they believe in Allah alone So how would you interpret that in light of your the way you interpreted surah 60 verse 8? All right As I said in chapter 3 verse 7 you have to put such a verses beside other verses of koran where koran talks about You know here as well Said most of them most disbelievers are you know kafa not all of them So as as long as you Allah says also as long as if you avoid major Scenes as well. I forgive your minor sins. So those people God wants it that they give up their kuf which was You know killing each other There are so many Verses that I have to bring up but but it says until you believe in Allah alone Yeah, but I said that you have to admit enmity and hatred until you believe in Allah I said that you have to put it beside other verses to understand the pure You know interpretation of it. It doesn't mean that if you don't believe Okay, and you don't do bad deeds then there is these haters between us chapter 60 verse 8 Said to you that if they don't fight you if they don't attack you Allah doesn't forbid you from being righteous So you have to put that form beside this type of verses see that only if they attack you only if they kill you you uh, you know The Let me read it again for you Next verse of chapter 8 60 verse 8 which I read for you next one is 9 Allah only forbids you from those who fight you because of religion and expel you from your home and aid in your expulsion That you make allies of them. So Allah forbids us from you know, it is not only about you know These believers is about Sorry, ISIS Taliban. Okay. Ayatollah Khomeini this fascist, you know guy and his regime So I am I'm their their enemy. I'm fighting them and I will never make you know, because they expel us from our home I'm living now in Sweden many years. I cannot go back to my country So they expel me from my home. They killed my brother.  I I have a Christian brother from South Africa. He's watching now martin And he had very prejudice before he come to my show now. He's What is it? He's always in my show. We love each other. We each other. We are like brothers. So I want peace I want to make peace between people and The unfortunately these extremists like ISIS and Taliban and all of them they have just created a lot of problems and Now I would like to talk about the solution to our problems because Let me let me just quickly address what you just said because uh, I'm going I'm going to agree with you that Definitely definitely definitely all sorts of muslims in the world and uh, just to be clear I definitely would not put you in the same category with uh, with isis or the mullahs or Anything like that. Uh, but there is this ongoing issue of these different ways of Understanding the Quran. So uh, I just wanted to say just as an example of the difference in perspective So you're quoting sort of 60 verse eight And using that to interpret Sort of sort of 60 verse four and so on but if you look at a commentary At least you could look at tufsir jalalain. So the two jalals If you read sort of 60 verse eight in a translation like I mean in a commentary like that It will just say this verse was abrogated by the command to fight them So it's this ongoing issue of if you take a verse that you would quote to show that Islam is not calling for violence against unbelievers just for being unbelievers or something like that you would have a lot of voices in mainstream islamic scholarship would would simply say well that verse has been Abrogated and it's because the Quran in sort of two verse 106 for instance refers to the doctrine Of abrogation. So I think we're back to this issue of if the Quran is supposed to be solving these problems It's really really Unclear now with that said go ahead and go ahead whatever whatever you're gonna say Which verse they said that it was abrogated. Can you tell me please? Yeah, sir 60 verse eight. I could pull up jalalain if you if you want but sir That's your jalalain says sir a 60 verse eight was abrogated by commands to fight. All right.   Okay, and if it was abrogated here is clear chapter 60 verse nine says that Allah only Forbid you from those who fight you so there was a fight going on. Okay Those who fight you and expel you from your home because of your religion So this is uh, this is clear and many other uh, you know Chapter versus of Quran. So let me uh, yeah, so so you just think that the claim is that at the time that was revealed Yes, that's what it meant. But later you have Surah nine verse 29 surah nine verse 123 surah nine verse 73 and so on which are calls to Fight unbelievers. So even if even if you think they're wrong, I just want people to understand Their perspective their perspective versus your perspective. I just wanted one more verse I'm not even going to I'm not even going to respond. I just want to know how what what you think this verse means so surah nine verse 111 In i'll read mh Shakir Says surely Allah has bought of the believers their persons and their property for this That they shall have the garden they fight in Allah's way. So they slay and are slain So this is the this is the context of a lot of verses in surah nine which talk about Fighting the unbelievers fight those of the unbelievers who are near to you and let them find a new hard hardness Fight those who do not believe in Allah until they pay the jizya and so on and hear that that looks like the the the context And this verse actually explains what it means to be fighting people So surely Allah has bought of the believers their persons and their property for this that they shall have the garden They fight in Allah's way. So they slay and are slain So it sounds like what Allah means by fighting unbelievers in these verses involves Slaying and getting slain killing until you get killed again. I uh, I don't want to get into an argument like I'm actually I just These are verses that I bring up a lot. And so if there is an alternative interpretation, uh, I just be happy for you to Go and share. Yeah, just I would love to Chapter four verse 89. They wish that you should be a kafir just as they are kafirs so that You may all be alike do not Therefore take them from them allies until they Immigrate in the way of Allah But if they turn their backs Seize them and slay them wherever you come upon them Take none of them for your ally or Helper chapter next chapter in the next verse Unless it be such of them who seek refuge with the people who are joined with you by Covenant or those who come to you because their their hearts Shreened from fighting Either against you or against their own people had Allah so willed he would Certainly have given them power over you. So anyway 91 also you will find others Who wish to obtain security from you and obtain security from their people every time they are Returned to state of oppression They fall back into it. So if they do not withdraw from you or offer you peace Or restrain their hands then seize them and kill them Wherever you overtake them and those We have made for them against us. Okay So it is always as long as they fight and if the chapter 8 verse 61 And if they incline to peace then incline to it also and rely upon Allah indeed It is he who is The hearing the the known there are so many other verses that is as long as they they fight Okay, and then we know that there was a 10 year You know ceasefire between You know Muslim and the pagans, okay and The moment the moment prophet Muhammad signed and that treaty and all scholars I agree that they also these Pagans they try to provoke Muslims to fight but prophet Muhammad gave them direct order that you do not Do not fight. Okay. So In that also treaty the moment that he signed the the agreement Those verses that say go and kill them fight them are Abrogated definitely because prophet Muhammad said stop fighting now. Okay, so they start to bring them to Islam By by war. Okay, not by sword. Okay, so and I would like to uh, you know Share something fast here very fast, please. I want to share this I don't know. You see Yeah, we got a picture. Yeah, we get a picture. This is the organization that I'm following. Okay, and these women are head of that organization.  Okay And they they are leading a fight against the fascist regime of Iran. Okay, so They interpret Islam totally different to those backward extremist Muslims who say that women Have to be sit home do nothing. They and then you were reading Something, uh, you know a fabricated hadith about prophet Muhammad said that You know if a nation take women as their leaders are failure and so on Just be clear. You believe that you believe that bukhari is is fabricated a lot of his You know, I don't say all of them, but a lot of his Hadiths are fabricated. For example that Let me stop. Did you stop it? Okay. Very good.  Okay That you mentioned it a lot of time. It's a fabricated hadith because Quran says like this Let me Miracle Quran says absolutely against it It says that in chapter 29 verse 50 50 and 51, but they say why Are not signs sent down to him from his lord. They are talking about prophet Muhammad Say the signs are only with Allah and I am only a clear warner And it is is it not sufficient for them what we reveal to you the book which is Quran Which is recited to them indeed in that is a mercy and reminder for the people who believe chapter 6 verse 35 If their version is too hard on you or Muhammad Then seek if you can a tunnel into the To the earth or a ladder into the sky in order to bring them a sign Had Allah so willed he would have brought all of them to to the right path So never be one of the ignorant chapter 6 verse 37 and they say why Has a sign not been sent down to him From his law say indeed Allah is able to send down a sign But most of them do not know chapter 6 verse 109 And they swear by all their strongest oath that if a sign came down Came to them. They would surely believe in it Say the signs are only with Allah and what will make you Perceived that even if a sign came They they would not believe there are many other verses. So how come Allah says here that No, you don't need the sign the sign is Quran But later he he split the moon and nowhere talk about it in Quran despite he's talking about You know Moses What is just to keep the conversation moving? I've got a lot talk about it very, you know Just to keep the conversation going. I've got to ask if we might transition back over to david soon too Yes, oh, yeah, uh, yeah, I just I'm actually we're actually on the same page So there's been a few things where we're totally on the same page So we both don't like the uh the mullahs in iran We both agree that there are very different kinds of Muslims in the world and and we shouldn't lump them all together Brother we as long as you do that. You're my brother. Yeah, we agree. We agree We agree that uh that there are unclear parts of the Quran and that interpretation is required We agree on that and we agree here, uh, that In case anyone didn't didn't understand that the very important point being made that was a criticism of bukhari And he and I would agree that that looks like that was a These were later stories that people made up. So you have in later muslim sources The claim that muhammad is performing miracles like splitting the moon when according to the Quran and I assume this The as you read the Quran is muhammad's miracle. He's not performing these various kinds of miracles Um, so the Quran is denying that muhammad performed miracles apart from delivering the Quran itself And therefore later stories like we find in sahih el bukhari, which talked about muhammad Performing these miracles those had to be made up because they're actually contradicting the Quran So we're are totally on the same totally on the same page there james. Yes, very good. Thank you Uh, yeah about maybe uh, we can talk more about the solution you were asking. Oh, yeah Yeah, I think you're gonna gonna go into that. Yeah, yes, uh, as I said that the rules of the jungle by Islam is not the final message of god or prophet muhammad is not the final message of god because it has more praying More fasting more rules, you know, don't do this don't do that by saying these things nothing will change it helped Okay, as you said yourself, they were burying their daughters alive. By the way, those who don't know those who deny it Uh, that they were burying their daughters alive even today in india. They buried their daughters alive I have on my channel the video that they they are doing it that by the way, just just let me agree with you on that because Because it's so so unfamiliar To people today, they don't realize and I don't know how prevalent it was in arabia during the time of muhammad But I agree there are people who will say it was never it was never an issue in arabia The fact that the the fact that the Quran is responding to it and that people would have understood what what the what the muslim sources Are addressing makes it sound like it it certainly was an issue But it was it was actually very common In the roman empire and so people think that this wasn't a serious issue But it was an extremely serious issue in the ancient world and it's because people Stopped the practice that we're no longer. We're no longer familiar with it. So yeah And for those who don't know as I said you can just google In the past 20 years in india more than 10 million girls have been killed before or after Bear I have videos two men.  So anyway So by just saying that this is forbidden. That's the haram that's so on it doesn't You know solve problems and as we see that there are so many problems So what i'm saying is that islam came to get rid of the source which is We say it in abrahamic religion is the satan. Okay satan is the one who fooled everyone the sources By the way, I was banned by efdawa Just because I wanted to pick up this You know issue about satan that because in quran says that Clearly that one day satan will disappear And one day We will live in a People become righteous and they take over the the planet. Okay And everything that utopia I was talking is promised by god that one day will happen And it's not by force is by getting rid of the the the opportunity that you know the opportunity that give allows you By killing millions of people become billionaires now People call me communists, but It is not communism. It is islam islam believe in equality that we share everything with each other We love one another that mecca that we were talking we are talking many times about Is that the symbol of equality where we go when we go there once the lifetime we have to go there and we're equal no minute or two before we wrap up or go into the q&a All right, so I anyway I was explaining but as I said it is very deep Discussion, so I am sure that we need more More, you know time to talk about that So I will continue as I said at the end of this stream on my my channel. There's the link is on the description Correcting the perfect hour Correcting myself. We actually do have the four minute conclusion So we also you guys have a chance to kind of draw together the final threads from this debate And then we'll go into the q&a So with the conclusion since we had started with you Muji will kick it over to you assuming we were alternating this whole time and then we'll kick it over to david before we go into the q&a Yeah, the conclusion is that for me is that We all have to help each other to in order to live in a peaceful world and people like me If really they would what david would like to you know, get rid of these evil acts That happens under the name of Islam. Of course there are it happens under the name of other religions as well But we talk about Islam right now. So you should help me and Give me voice. So I would love to you know, meet that I call him ice this guy daniel harry adjou and talk to him and You know show everyone that how they misinterpreted quran and which I gave some Clear example like the chapter 5 verse 38 chopping of hands and how they you know They translated differently in different verses of quran. So and yeah Those who have more questions Please join me after this show on my channel. I will answer your questions You got it. We'll kick it over to david for four minutes floor is all yours All right. Well in my opening statement, I pointed out that if we're Assessing the question who was Muhammad And the claim is that he was a prophet. Well, there are three considerations. We'd have to examine Was he getting revelations from his own mind? intentionally or unintentionally Was he getting revelations from a demonic source and was he getting revelations? from god as far as the arguments I laid out that Muhammad really looks like some of his His revelations were coming from his own mind simply influenced by his culture or Self-serving purpose again, you don't have to think that he was deliberately doing this You could just believe that his revelations were influenced by his desires and by his surroundings I think we have very good reasons to think that Muhammad's revelations were coming from his own mind And I didn't see any I didn't see any Anything that would make us doubt that Second I pointed out that we have good reasons to think that Some of Muhammad's revelations had a demonic origin We have I mean that was Muhammad's first impression of his revelations. He believed that he was demon possessed He became suicidal. He tried repeatedly to hurl himself off a cliff We have in the muslim sources the incident of the satanic verses where Muhammad Received a revelation and delivered a revelation promoting polytheism later. He came back and said the devil made him do it and Muhammad Was a victim of black magic a magic spell that gave him delusional thoughts and false beliefs Not to mention on top of all of that Muhammad receiving revelations according to the sources and maybe muji Rejects these sources at least according to the sources that most muslims believe in Sounds like something out of an exorcist film when he's receiving his revelations And I didn't see anything that would Cause us to doubt any of that and so the only question is Is there any evidence that Muhammad's a prophet that would That would counterbalance that and make us think that Muhammad was a prophet What evidence have we seen that Muhammad is a true prophet all we've seen is that That muji thinks that he's a prophet who sent to solve the problems of mankind Uh, as I pointed out, I think that Muhammad did it if that was his purpose then he's done a terrible job because wherever we see Uh, Islam go we see lots of problems and the people like muji who are interpreting the Quran in a in a different light Their voices are usually drowned out by more more popular muslim speakers And so what what's the evidence for Muhammad? Uh, muji admitted that Muhammad didn't perform miracles and so the Quran is his miracle But if muji is correct, then Muhammad's miracle and the evidence for Muhammad is the single most Misunderstood book in history, right? It is the single most misunderstood book in history a book that claims to be clear and claims to be unclear A book that the vast majority of scholars who've ever lived have completely misunderstood a book that The top translators in the world have all misunderstood and so if uh, if this is what we have then we have this situation where My goodness, it seems like 99.9 something percent of muslims Do not understand their book and do not understand their religion and there are just a small handful who actually do and so, uh I'll I'll agree with muji that there are things that we can agree on and that we would share common goals and that None of us like isis and none of us like The mullahs who are oppressing people so we can all be on the same page there But i'll say for those of you muslims out there who agree with muji's interpretations and don't believe in groups that violently oppress Your target in your dawah should primarily be should primarily be the muslims who are influencing the radical The radical violent groups so direct your dawah towards them I just would like to say it's past. Of course. That's why I asked for help Yeah, that's why I asked for help and I want to mention something Jump into the q&a. I just I pardon me to do this I just we do want to jump into the q&a because we've got a lot of questions We got to kind of cruise through in order to get to everybody's question This one coming in from you to have haq says to wood since Let's see you lack a sense of morality intuitively Before you were a christian. Would you think Muhammad marrying aisha was fine? Um Yes, before I was a christian. I would have thought that was fine You got it and mr. Mustard thinks for your question says do we have any personal items that Muhammad actually owned? You know how like the dalai lama still has items from previous lives. So they say Uh the question is to to whom? I think that's for you Can you repeat it again because I think it was asking do do we was it asking for any physical relics that we have of Muhammad? Is that what it was asking James? Is that what it looks like? That's what it sounded like to me Sure, I think that's probably the best way to take it So I think it's just any Is that what I was saying it sounded I wasn't listening because it wasn't I wasn't fully listening because it was directed towards me It sounded like it was asking any physical objects that Muhammad had do we still have them The first half says do we have any personal items that Muhammad actually owned and then they said, you know How like the dalai lama still has items from previous lives? So they say That's the that's where I'm confused is that last part Previous life. I don't know. What is that? Yeah, I don't know that either so so maji that the basically the first part of that would be towards you And I'm not aware of anything. Uh, are you aware of anything that We still have I I saw a sword. They were claiming that it's uh, prophet Muhammad sword. I don't know some People, uh, they take your hair and say this is his hair. I don't know. I mean it is That that I'm not aware and there is his grave, of course in in badina. Yes, you got it. I don't know anything else This room from gains bra says usa is the best country on earth slava ukraine I don't know mr. Monster says could the demons that supposedly possess these people just be explained with medical explanations Like a seizure or some other mental condition Yeah, I think that's for me because i'm the one that made the claim So yes, I believe that you can explain the Basically the descriptions of Muhammad's revelations in sources again, these might be sources that uh, that muji would reject So it might be irrelevant to to this discussion But but most muslims believe in in sources that would talk about Muhammad Uh, you know, he would be on the ground and his face would turn red and he would start sweating profusely And his lips would start moving as he's receiving his revelations and so on It sounds like sounds like something out of you know, again out of like an exorcist film or something like that So the the the idea is, you know, could that be like epilepsy or something like that? I think you could I think you could it's you know describe some of the Some of the sources in that way for me. It's more along the lines of Islam looks like something That was sent to counter the the gospel, right? So you've got the you've got the christian gospel And the core of the gospel is a message about jesus Death for sins his resurrection and his divine nature and islam comes and it agrees with so many things agrees that she Agrees that god exists created the world sent prophets agrees with you know, the old testament prophets Agrees that jesus is born of a virgin agrees that jesus performed miracles Agrees that jesus the messiah agrees on all these things and said and yet it says oh and by the way There's only these three little things we have to disagree on jesus didn't die on the cross for sins He didn't rise from the den he's not lord. And so it just the the whole thing looks like It doesn't That part looks like something demonic inserted in order to counteract Another view so that that's my position I would like to respond to that that As a muslim, I don't believe that demon exists And Because you said that the muslims believe in that there are muslims who believe that jinns Exist, I believe the jinns exist, but not on this planet They are you know people who believe that jinns possess you and I don't believe at all I believe the jinns are on other planets. They are because that's why they are unseen They are creators of god and the creators of god are you know, physical They are smart. They are they are they have believers and disbelievers But why do we don't see them because simply they are not on this planet god has billions of other creators on other planets in this vast universe and as I read quran I understand it as well that they are other creators, but not You know Living on this planet because you got it.  Yes You got a great the producer says david would I appreciate you critically analyzing and debunking islam But where does your critical thinking go when it comes to the bible? I think they're saying david that if you apply the same Criticism to the bible, then you'd be a skeptic about it as well uh, I mean there It's notice notice the methodology that I just used I said here are some things you can say um That would make you think this that islam Muhammad had a his revelations had a human origin Here are some things you can say that would make you think they had a demonic origin And what do you have that would make you think? Otherwise, what would you what would what would make you think otherwise? And so this debate is not about not about christianity, but um I believe that I do have Reasons whereas if I if I didn't have the reasons I just looked at the bible Yeah, I might doubt I might doubt all kinds of things But I believe that jesus rose from the dead I believe you we have a good historical case that jesus rose from the dead that he performed miracles and things like that And so if jesus believes in the bible and he's the one who rose from the dead Then my position is basically if i'm going to listen to anyone tell me about god i'm gonna listen to that guy And uh, this isn't just out in you know, this doesn't just hang out in the middle of nowhere I believe we have good reasons to believe that god exists where if I didn't believe that god existed Then I would obviously have a problem with miracles But since I believe that that that a personal god exists And I believe that jesus rose from the dead It looks like if anyone in history has god's stamp of approval to say listen to this guy Then it's jesus and so I believe in jesus and so just as I applied and just as I applied in as long I say hey, here are all these things we could point out and that could uh make us not believe in Muhammad What is there that would override that? Um, yes in christianity. There are there are all sorts of things in christianity You know hell and all kinds of things that you could look at and say, you know, I we got some problems here Um, but if you I mean if you believe in god, you believe jesus rose from the dead You have a reason to say actually I I am going to believe in christianity So I believe jesus died on the cross. I believe he rose from the dead I believe he's lord and so I gotta be a christian does it mean I can't it doesn't mean there aren't Other struggles to deal with or other interpretations to deal with or other problems to deal with but I'm still going to be a christian throughout that You got it and thank you very much for your question coming in from notion slaves says let's see They say muji you don't seem to represent mainstream islam just your own which they argue is a they say is a small part What are your thoughts muji? I showed you A picture as well and I said that I'm following an organization. We are millions. I'm not alone, but anyway Just because people have You know, haven't Interpretate Quran Correctly in the past. It doesn't mean that we have to always go On the wrong path. So now is the time that people realize the true interpretation And understanding the better. So that's why we come up with the true interpretation. So it is not just my own Yes alone interpretation and I gave good examples of the different verses how they You know translated They translate the same word differently in different verses You got it and thanks brother ben for your question said for muji Muslim men are allowed to have four wives. How many did Muhammad have and why was he allowed to have this many? Actually, uh, that's also a good question because When I read Quran, I understand that you cannot have more than one wife because Allah says that you can never Be just among your wives. That's why you better marry only wife. So polygamy didn't come with islam polygamy existed Always and islam tried to stop it By first make it four maximum four and by making it difficult or impossible And Allah command says that Allah says that you never can be just so you better You know Marry only one and prophet muhammad peace be upon him didn't marry those wives for his own You know a sexual You know desire he married them for for the sake of islam. He had his own purpose not And then this uh, you know nine year old Isha it is just from the one Wrong source who lied about a miracle of prophet muhammad spilling the moon when somebody lies I don't know why people like, you know, david and ap they take this lie about Isha's age and make it so big but that Moon splitting they don't believe it. So when somebody lies, then you have to be, you know Careful about accepting their their hadithes. So Both of them for me are absolutely fabricated by You know, somebody who claimed to Memorize 300 000 hadithes I counted it's like 80 books and all of them were fabricated It's uh sounds like crazy that you memorize 80 300 000 fabricated hadithes and then threw them away.  I know I see mullahs of iran, for example They create fabricated hadithes even today. Yes, please. You got it. And luke has Skol as inski says for muji. Did muhammad ever see talk or see a la directly? No, he never saw the only one which koran mentioned that talked to him directly was moses piece Peace be upon you not prophet muhammad never saw or talked to him directly This one from anan yamus says for david Shai shai Uthman is still waiting for your friend hassamo at belboa park I don't know what that means. Do you know what that means? David? Is that an old buddy of yours? uh, yeah, he's referring to uh, sam shamoon saying he's ready for sam shamoon, but uh, Uh, I'm sure I'm sure you'd be willing to host them right here on your channel. Wouldn't you that would be fun? Absolutely. Okay Cool. And then By the way, I asked you james to maybe you could organize a debate, but me and Daniel, I don't know what happened. Did you oh, that would be That would be interesting. I'm totally open to that as well I let me write that down just so it's at the top of my my list and Yeah, I would appreciate it very much by the way Last time I was on your channel with uh opposite prophet He uh accused me for supporting a terrorist organization and I have asked him to uh, you know Come to your channel again and talk about that But he's uh, unfortunately afraid he doesn't Want to do that because he knows that he made a great mistake. Keep moving You definitely you guys have a bond Do we we'll see if we can get you an AP together again Dave garr says or a td says free arabic english books on women jihad, etc Based completely on islamic references visit website arnaab Mubashir, hopefully i'm pronouncing that right and jamal khan. Thanks for your super sticker as well as pure blooded american jesus says David wood is the best debater this side of heaven. You got a fan out there david and then last this question coming in from Let's see if I had missed any pardon me folks the 200 iq atheist says i have a question for david wood Quote where's the era of world peace that the messiah is to usher in if jesus was the messiah question mark war continues to this day and has ever since Ben since jesus's death um Yeah, if you well, I mean Biblically there is a second coming Of the messiah so We're not we're not there yet But if you look guys, you would not you would not and I think muji would agree with me on this you would not recognize the world if it didn't have the influence of jesus If you you go back and I've talked about this in other debates, but I mean the most popular form of entertainment in first century roam was the gladiator contest guys would Have to fight each other to the death. They would have to fight animals and be eaten by animals Christians came along and were horrified at that and Now guess what everyone would be well not everyone, but most people would be horrified At watching human beings be ripped apart actual human beings not in movies, but actual human beings being Ripped apart and forced to uh to fight each other to the death Well, guess what it never occurred to anyone before it didn't occur to people before that right? It was totally normal Christians changed their view Of how you should view your fellow human beings Shortly after that christians invented hospitals there were places you could go get a diagnosis before that But christians wanted to take care of people they invented hospitals They invented orphanages So so that there was a place that would take care of children that no one else wanted So they keep inventing these things and now you get down to our time and we take a lot of these things for granted We take it for granted that you should care about people even if they're on the other side of the world And guess what? It was christianity that injected that idea into the world that human beings are created in the image of god that god So loved the world that he gave his only son and so And and not not to mention all the commands about honoring people loving even your enemies praying for those who persecute you and so Uh 200 iq atheists now whether you like it or not You've been massively influenced by christianity And so a lot of the things you believe and a lot of the things you would condemn You don't even realize if you've been born in first century rome without the influence of christianity You believe some very different very messed up things This one coming in from charlotte. Thanks for your question says to muji What are your thoughts on marriage to aisha being based on a divine command? It is reported that angel gabriel revealed to muhammad that the six-year-old aisha was to be his wife Why would god command such a thing? i don't know if You refer to a hadith definitely because i haven't seen such a verse in coran I think i think i just i just want to clarify. Yeah, so that's not uh, that's i think He or she i he or she i didn't see who was who was that? Yeah, but yeah, that would that would be in a hadith I think where where muhammad Gets the the dream about God giving aisha as like a present wrapped up for for muhammad Yeah, all right. And anyway, the answer i said it before that is coming from Liars who even said that coran is incomplete. I have had debate with the sheikhs Okay, they say that two verses of coran was eaten by a goat I'm sure that you are familiar with that that hadith so these Hadith fabricators A coran says actually uh, wu to to you who write a book for exchange of some money And say that this is from uh from your lord So coran talks about such a people who uh, you know Write things from god and lie about god to sell their their books and definitely aisha wasn't Six years or nine years old. I have a actually a record of different dates and Suggest that she was 19 to 21 and I said as well that prophet muhammad First we have to go for it that was he a prophet of god or not was he Did he solve our problems in the past or not and so on and then we understand that he Didn't do anything for his own You know interest all he was doing was for his his people and you know to for humanity as well and for for religion so That's my response that he she wasn't absolutely six or nine You got it and thank you very much for this question coming in from do appreciate it It's how he luke says question for both during the debate You guys mentioned some pretty violent teachings courtesy of muhammad Can you name anything that jesus did or taught which was worse than muhammad's teaching? Okay, um I don't want to uh, I have said many times. I don't want to criticize other religions And what I'm doing always is to promote my religion because I don't want to You know How hurt feelings of my brothers and sisters in christianity, so I don't have any comments on that Yeah, and I would say uh I can only think of two passages that people even try to to twist into something violent from jesus Both of them are massively distorted By people that they either haven't read the passage or they're deliberately trying to Deceive but the the passages The the the things that jesus said that the greatest commandments are Love the lord your god with all your might heart, mind, soul and strength Love your neighbor as yourself. He also commanded love even your enemies pray for those who persecute you and so, uh Yeah If you if you don't believe in him at least acknowledge What he teaches that it that it was peaceful But yeah, I'm not I'm not aware of anything that jesus said that would be uh, that would call for violence against other people Here's a juicy one from you to have heck you says to david wood if you lost your faith Would you go back to thinking marrying aisha is fine? Would you do such a thing have given the opportunity? um No, because i'm not attracted to little girls. Um, I mean no as far as the second part.  I've just regarded all as nonsense right if if we are if there's this this planet and where these lumps of cells Who are only here because our ancestors did a better job? at finding food and and finding a mate Then all these claims about right and wrong and oh you you can't do this and you can't do that Uh, I mean my goodness. It's either it's either just biological It's it's hardwired into us in which case I have no reason to take that seriously when I'm not hardwired like that I don't I I'm not wired to feel empathy or anything So I wouldn't have that to go on and I'm not gonna I'm not gonna judge right and wrong based on other people's Feelings of empathy. So it either have to go on that or I would have to go on society and societies disagree massively on Right and wrong and so I would just regard it as a bunch of nonsense doesn't mean I would go out and do things I might I might say at this point in my life I might say well, you know, I'm already in my forties and so just uh, just uh, keep going and you know Try to enjoy life as much as possible without causing too much trouble. Whereas, you know You're 18 or 20. You are a bit more Uh, aggressive and confrontational if you have a a sick view of the world So I might I might live a totally normal life, but I would regard it I would regard all of these claims about right and wrong. I would regard it as absolute nonsense You got it. And thank you very much for your question. This one coming in from charlotte says To moji. What is your formula behind cherry picking which had hadith should be dismissed and which should not All right yet this is We know that All muslims even those extremists. They agreed that even Bukhari himself He said that he collected 600 000 hadiths and he rejected most of them and he kept just 7 000 of them as authentic So when something can be fabricated and authentic, then you have to be careful You have to have a source to go for it and understand that if this is authentic or fabricated So when a hadith for me A hadith that goes against quran then definitely that hadith is fabricated a hadith that goes in line with quran Then it is authentic. So it cannot be authentic if it goes against quranic teachings like You know The one which we talked about splitting the moon when quran says that oh muhammad you don't need You know What is it miracles we send miracles to previous prophets and nobody they said it is magic and so Then quran says that hadith says that he split the moon. Then that's a fabricated hadith. That's my criteria. Yeah This is coming in from factionalist network. I think this is maybe our last one for the day. They said For david if islam is the demonic answer to christianity, then how is christianity not the demonic answer to judeism? um I'm trying to i'm trying to understand what that's saying. Uh, so Even in the old testament in the old testament. So the old covenant. They're told a new covenant is coming a messiah is coming so When jesus comes that's not That's not hey. Here's some religion that's meant to thwart your other religion. It's here is the fulfillment here's the fulfillment of the old testament prophecies and the the promise of a coming messiah, so it would You could only you would only say it's it's demonic if it were actually like An evil that's meant to stop it somehow not in the fulfillment if if islam were somehow the fulfillment of christian teachings or something like that then it wouldn't be a demonic counter to it right so you have uh Notice all of the all of the claims all of the claims that that jesus died on the cross for sins My goodness read isiah 53 talks about someone someone being pierced for our transgressions and giving his life for others Uh the the claim that he would rise from the dead keep reading the very same chapter the guy who dies on behalf of others Is alive again and his divine nature that's also that's also prophesied in the in the old testament. We're told That the messiah would be called wonderful counselor mighty god Right, so he's that he's the mighty god and that's in a passage that talks about a child being born So you have these in the old testament christianity is not Hey is not meant to destroy that it's meant to fulfill those kinds of things you get to aslam And then the very things that are prophesied in the old testament And then are fulfilled in the new testament islam comes along and denies all of that and claims to be the fulfillment of Of the the the Torah and the gospel and so yeah, I wouldn't definitely wouldn't say the same thing about christianity and judeism You got it and with that want to say folks want to remind you our guests are linked to the description We really do appreciate them and as always want to encourage you to attack the arguments instead of the person When you leave a comment on your opinion on this debate and want to say though huge things to david and muji It's been a true pleasure to host you guys. I just want to say one Think that I will be live right now Those who would like to talk to me can come to my channel the link as you said is In description or the perfect hour. You can search it. I appreciate it very much james. Thank you You got it. I'll be back with a post credit scene just giving you updates folks on upcoming debates Including this juicy one at the bottom right of your screen whether or not porn is bad That is going to be between dr. E. Michael jones and cat tonight. You don't want to miss it So hit that subscribe button if you haven't already and I'll be right back in just a moment Amazing my dear friends thrilled to have you here want to say thanks so much for all of your support We are excited you guys. That was a phenomenal debate. We really enjoyed it We hope you enjoyed it too and I've got to tell you you guys we are excited about the future Let me tell you why so we in particular have a number of debates coming up that are going to be huge One of them being as you can see at the bottom right of your screen The one I just mentioned before going off or you could say before going into the brief intermission is Tonight dr. E. Michael jones and cat collide for the first time on whether or not porn is bad for society You don't want to miss it. That's going to be a juicy one to be sure the last one was huge And so we're excited for that one. I will be personally moderating that I love getting to moderate I want to give a huge thank you to cas Cas oftentimes even sometimes with like two hours where I was like two hours away from hosting debate and I'm like I'm just so swamped. I have so much schoolwork to do I have so much grading to do and I I reach out to cas and I'm like, hey Could you help me out and host this debate? And like I said sometimes it's like two hours and he's like, yeah, sure I can make it work And I just want to say we are super thankful to cas. We're super thankful to amy And converse contender all of the guest mods were super like I seriously appreciate them And so we really do want to acknowledge them and say thank you cas goes by the name factionalist network He was actually the last person that asked a question during the q&a during today's debate And I just want to say we are I am so thankful you guys This is truly a community effort moderated debate is a community of people whether they be muslim Atheist christian you name it We are glad you are here folks and we are optimistic about the future as we are working on improving things at modern day debate There are things as you know that we can improve will be the first to admit it And we are working on doing the hard thing of going into those things and saying, okay What topics will be better? What topics would people enjoy more at watching at modern day debate as well as who are the speakers that people Really want to see Things like that we are working on improving as well as as you know, we had our our first in person debate conference last month Which is absolutely a blast We're so thankful to get to hang out with the speakers It was a great time and that's something that we're like, you know, we can improve on our tech We can improve on our video quality because it was a little bit grainy looking I admit that the audio is like yeah, it could be crisper So we are working on that. I just met with somebody yesterday who's in person I met with him We're going to meet in person because he lives in town where I live in Fort Collins, Colorado And we're going to get together and we're going to go over the cameras He's going to show me like here's how you can get the most out of this camera This camera is not even worth it. You should just sell it and get a better one all that stuff And so you my friends Well, I've got to say you guys make this channel awesome. You have helped us grow to we are encouraged 66 000 subscribers We just hit that a couple days ago and my dear friends I've got to say you guys make this channel awesome. And I'm not just saying that here. Let me give you some examples One during the q&a your questions are necessary. We need questions from the audience. That's what makes the q&a Happen so thank you guys. The other thing is even little things like hitting hitting that like button We're at 255 likes right now if we get five more likes will be at 260 We can totally make that goal So hey if you want to do a good an extra good deed for the day in addition to whatever else you might have done Hit that like button. We really do appreciate your support. It really does mean a lot But I've got to tell you we can see in the creator studio How many times people have shared debates too and I've got to tell you thank you guys for sharing our debates so often Whether it be on facebook twitter, whatever it is. Thank you guys for doing that That really does help get the word out about us It's just a grassroots effort and we do appreciate that so much. So thanks for that and then Charlotte says as a european. I really appreciate these earlier streams Most of the live shows start at 3 a 3 a m for me Thanks for letting me know that charlotte and i'm very serious about we want to do more regular saturday morning shows saturday morning for my time because i'm in mountain time in colorado And evening time for you then I would think it's about maybe it's late afternoon for you in terms of what time is it in Let's say we use rome 8 28 p.m. Oh, yeah, so it's definitely evening for almost anywhere in europe right now And we are working on doing more regular saturday morning debates because I enjoy these is it like a fun way to start my day and I appreciate that feedback because that feedback I love when people give us crisp feedback on actionable steps To say hey james, you know, maybe you do this sometimes and i'm like, thank you Like that's the that's the great kind of feedback we're looking for and even during for example when we put out these debates We just hit 262 likes. So thanks for that support that got us even more that beyond our goal that I mentioned So thank you guys for your support and those seven of you that have hit like I've got to tell you for our in-person debates for those conferences I love it when people you think that oh james are like does that annoy you when people say like oh, man You know james the audio could be better on this No, actually I'm thankful that they say it because I got to be honest I do not have an ear or an eye for like video quality audio quality Like I'm pretty basic to where I'm like if I could make out the words of what the speakers are saying It makes no difference to me But I know that most people I assume it's got or at least a lot of people They're kind of like I want it to be quality audio when we're working on getting our audio to be as good as possible For those in-person conferences So I do appreciate that chris feedback charlotte and thanks for becoming a member I saw you became a member during today's debate charlotte Thank you for your support and thanks to all of our members for their support that extra support really does mean a lot Seriously as we have a lot of channel members that I had seen even today just in the live chat as well as thank you to Our moderators. Thank you guys for making sure that the live chat is within youtube terms of service We're working on getting back on to twitch. We've got to talk to restream today. I've got to talk to their customer support because Long story short I'll let you know exactly how that works in terms of why restream is not working But I've got to tell you We appreciate you guys we really do Even being in the live just even watching this channel that actually does help us in the algorithm No joke is so like even if you're like I never like watched the channel in order to purposely support it It's like well, it does still help the channel in a couple of ways one We want it to be an eclectic commuted here at modern a debate We want it to be a good mix of different people from different walks of life So that is one way in which we're glad you're here also though Even just by watching even if you never said a word in the old live chat or in the comments youtube basically They the way the algorithm works like roughly speaking is they look at who's watching a debate and then they say, okay Let's look at con basically accounts that this is where it's it's all a i so it's not a person But the a i works this way It says let me look for accounts that have similar interests to for example I see in the chat right now poker man or As Mahane or joe mama or square circles They say let's find accounts that are similar to these Because odds are good that if these you know, there are accounts that are similar to these and watching the same types of content They'll probably like this modern-day debate channel as well And so just by being in the live chat youtube is recommending our content to to accounts that are like yours that have similar interests to yours So we are thankful youtube recommends our content a lot one of our videos alone Just one of them has four million impressions Namely that means youtube showed that video to four million people That is insane. So like we do follow terms of service on youtube The reason being youtube has helped us grow a lot you guys There's a reason i mean you like more power to those people who are you know like on let's say Odyssey and rumble I think they're great channels. We're working on getting on there ourselves But in terms of if you wanted to start on one of those channels You're like i'm just going to start here and i'm not going to go on youtube Oh my gosh, it's going to be way harder for you because youtube is just a it's a giant platform It's the second biggest search engine in the world only after google Which by the way google has a preference for youtube videos because they own youtube so they i mean youtube is constantly like if you want to get exposure youtube is the place to start and not only that but youtube is way bigger than other platforms for example twitter Is absolutely dwarfed by facebook and youtube it's not even close in terms of how many people are on the platform Same thing with twitch youtube swamps Completely dwarfs dominates twitch in terms of its regular viewers that are logging in every day And so we we're working on getting back on twitch But nonetheless like youtube we do want to follow the rules because they help us grow And we are thankful for that because we're not ashamed of wanting to grow We are providing a neutral platform on youtube and we frankly think it's the best neutral platform as we don't have any videos For example afterward that take a stance and say oh man so and so was so bad or oh man their position is so dumb We never do that. We let you the audience decide who you think was most persuasive That's important for us to do and i've got to tell you we are very excited about the future in terms of Let me tell you a couple of things one We have got some big plans for some summer In-person debates with higher video and audio quality than last time and not only that but we're considering some in-person Dialogs or panels similar to middle ground that you see from jubilee. We're going to do basically our own version of that That's what we're working on doing this summer in person and then we're going to release the debates And i've got to tell you we've got other ideas as well Don't worry. I'm still here. Okay. We've got other ideas as well. My dear friends. Let me tell you about some of them We might do an in-person conference Possibly this fall partnering with dylan burns. It depends on how available dylan is We're kind of it's like well, we're going to talk it out If not the following fall we're for sure planning on having debate con part two as we were excited My dear friends the first one was phenomenal if you got to see for example destiny versus daniel hikachu That was phenomenal my dear friends That was one of my favorite debates ever it was so fun I really did enjoy it and i've got to tell you we are working on a lot of upgrades I am meeting with my friend kevin in town on what come not only what cameras And also what lighting so i want to huge give a huge thanks to christ gammon Has come up with a list of lights that we can use to improve our lighting at the conference And not only that but that list kevin and i are going to go over and kevin's going to say that's probably the one You want to actually buy and that way we can have better lighting and better picture quality at the next debate con Debate con 2023 as sideshow nav has said in the old live chat So yeah, we're planning on it The first one was a huge success a blast to get to hang out with the speakers and some phenomenal debates I got to tell you that was honestly I just enjoyed myself so much at that conference and I love getting to speak with the the speakers in person because it's just it's it's nice when you're good to be in person like that but my dear friends Not only that dr. Jeff zweerink as well as dr giakovic Are going to debate whether or not there is evidence for god according to cosmology namely does cosmology point to god That's going to be later this month. We're excited for that debate and my dearest friends We're excited to invite matt dillahunty back on in march Probably late march We're hoping to get matt matt back on matt has been really busy catching up with a lot of stuff that he's got going on And so we're looking forward to that possibility as we really do enjoy matt We've got a good relationship. I've gotten to meet matt in person I think uh i'm trying to think a couple of times at least now and i've enjoyed his company He's he's an easygoing guy a pleasant guy and so Not only that but you don't maybe you don't maybe you maybe you know some of you probably know matt is actually he's got a lot of Impressive magician tricks that are like legitimately impressive. So uh, he's a fun time to be around but Daniel he could chew another person. I really do enjoy being around We get to meet at the conference and I I was so excited to have daniel there because I just I really do think highly of Daniel like I kind of I just We're still like and we've only met in person once but I like we're on the there. We're at serious risk of becoming friends I really do appreciate daniel. He's a pleasant guy. And so If you haven't seen Mike jones inspiring philosophy Debated holy kool-aid at our conference as well. That was phenomenal. I've got to give all credit to the speakers The speakers are what make this channel awesome. And so huge. Thank you to the speakers including david wood and Muji today, we really did appreciate that but I see you there in the old live chat Let me say hello to you. Tell me how you're doing in the live chat. Tell me what's on your mind I'm not joking.  This is totally serious Apparently we were like at the same campsite not in the same tent But we were in two different tents and he trained his dog and he told me he's like james James I've got a warning.  We hope you're doing well out there if you hear this It was a yeah, it was a steaming loaf. But anyway, what I say thanks for being with us h Six eight four five as either in the old live chat as well as Pure-blooded american jesus supporter. Thanks for being here martin ellen glad to have you with us daniel Good to see you in chat movement rider glad you're back as well as colossians 2 9 says you're amazing Blessings to you all and all good night from germany. Thanks colossians 2 9. That really does mean a lot I really appreciate that support and comedy and entertainment. Good to see you back here at the old live chat Wilmar says they want to see james and 4k You know for the in-person debates. We might be able to do that We can't stream at live k or 4k yet because youtube doesn't have that capability yet But i'm sure it's coming down the pike. So we are actually no joke We're investing in some 4k cameras because we want to be ready for when youtube actually lets people do that We want to be upping our game big time and man right good to see you there in the old live chat Wilmar glad to have you with us. Thanks for being a channel supporter. That means a lot Perfect one. Good to see you there in the old live chat kelvi quayo happy you're with us.  Thanks for coming by.  Glad you're here. Dave hill. Thanks for being here says you're sure It was his dog in the dream, right? It was definitely his dog neft did not poop in my tent himself He uh, he has others do his dirty work and zack aboriginal Glad to have you here. Remember it was a dream nephilim free nor his dog actually pooped in my tent But uh, we hope neph is doing well the last debate as you know, he left and he was unhappy We have no hard feelings for real. We're we're actually very anti grudge We really don't like rudges and so we try to not hold a grudge against anybody So we do hope that neph is doing well like I actually I do like neph So like he helped us when we were at about 2,000 Subscribers or probably even less than that in fact. Yeah for sure less than that I think honestly when we were probably at like 200 subscribers and neph had I think 6,000 back then Neph would come onto the channel and we were like, hey, this is huge, you know Because back then at 200 subscribers or like this is you know, 6,000 is huge And so he's helped us since we started Non-profit organization. I see you there in the old live chat. Good to have you pancake of destiny. Good to see you TC the unbeliever we are glad you are with us and Gwa glad you're here. I see you there in the old live chat. We hope you're doing well Don Willis. Good to see you there in the old live chat. Thanks for sticking up for me earlier before Don Willis I saw that you were telling someone in the chat. You were saying hey, they do read questions that are unpaid and that's true I get it is it it definitely triggers me and I want to bring the hammer down and crush people with an iron fist When I see them try to say james only reads paid questions That's not true. We if you just tag me with your question Tag me at modern day debates just put the at symbol and then modern day debate And then put your question in there say question for so-and-so and then you know put your question We are happy to read those questions now. Sometimes we run out of time to where we don't get to read every question But I've got to tell you when people say like oh james only reads, you know paid questions I'm like like don't lie like that is like it's a genuine lie. It's like we do read unpaid questions It doesn't have to be a super chat now We read the super chats first and we make sure we read every super chat because people are Helping support the channel so heaven forbid we put them first like because they are actually helping us put on for example That conference that we put on last month. We were able to take that risk Because we have had people put in donations through super chats and patreon and things like that and channel membership Some people though, they're like james. Well, I don't care you should read my question before the super chats And it's like okay Well, if you want to be a control freak or a karen or a kevin who's trying to control everything and it's like well You know, no, we're going to read the super chats first Like I don't think there's any shame in doing that like I said those people are sacrificing for the channel so Now do we get to read every single unpaid question at some time we got to you know Close the debate because we want to respect the time of the debaters because they have lives And also I know believe it or not. This sounds maybe even more crazy I have things to do as well. So like we do have to wrap up at some point and we don't always get to read every question So I've got to tell you We do our best with that and so I got to let people know that when I see people try to say No, you know, you don't read the unpaid ones. It's like don't lie If you want to criticize this for something that's true Like you want to say hey, you know your audio quality isn't great fair enough No problem, but if you say all of this stuff like oh, I was like They don't read my unpaid questions. It's like we try our best and we I would say pretty commonly We get to the unpaid question now sometimes once in a while We have a debate where we have so many super chats where it's like we don't get to any of the unpaid ones But again the idea that you'd say like well, james, I expect you to you know, even in that case I expect you and the debaters to stay around extra time to read mine Even if there are a hundred super chats or something. It's like We're not your slaves. You're not our boss like they have things to do I have things to do and so that like one time I saw somebody saying to Kaz In a comment.  Oh, Ozzie and tox. I forgot to read your your question I am so sorry about that. Let me just grab this really quick. I know that you had said it and I'm so sorry Because I did I I'm almost certain I copy and pasted it into the list Ozzie and the chat says I am doing an open stage on modern day debate discord about evidence for demons and gins at 6 p.m Eastern That's tonight folks. We do have a discord. It's linked in the description if you didn't know that If you've been living in a cave on mars with your fingers in your ears I want to encourage you to check that out You don't want to miss it. It's going to be fun my dear friends and that's right before our debate Which is going to be at 9 p.m. Eastern So there would be a break in between and as we're gonna we're gonna have that big debate tonight That's going to be a lot of fun. But yeah, I've got to tell you we do appreciate you guys. Thanks for your love and support Thanks for everything you do for the channel. We appreciate it more than you know I've got to run because I've got a ton of stuff to do today It's a really really busy day But want to say thank you guys for all your support seriously You make this a blast and believe it or not our story is just beginning as we have big plans We really do like it that modern day debate lets things play out as they may we let the chips fall where they may we let A thousand flowers bloom and we let it happen here organically because we don't want to be overly produced It's for example like the mainstream media fox news cnn msnbc It's pretty clear that they oftentimes have a message or a narrative or an idea that they're trying to push They oftentimes like to control things so much and it's very kind of overly produced We want it to be organic. We want the speakers to be able to say what they want to say and likewise Yes, sometimes we let them interrupt each other a little bit We won't let it go too far off the rails But we want it to be organic and we really believe we're offering something better in that way than the mainstream media Or other people for example Because when you overly produce it and you you kind of take away everybody's control That's lame So we want people to discuss current events as well as religion and all sorts of topics in a way that is authentic and real And raw and uncut. That's why you're getting the real thing here at modern day debate and we really are determined to I'm not joking. We are we have big aspirations and you've seen joe roman joe rogan do it It took about 12 years for joe rogan to be this mammoth who rivaled the mainstream media But we hope no joke in 12 years that we will be a mammoth who is a rival to the mainstream media Discussing current events as we are trying to take modern day debate into more current events. We no joke Joe rogan did it in 12 years and we've already seen how it's done So we think we can do it in 12 years If we see the way in which it's done by people like rogan We can kind of say hey I can we can do that in our own way or in our own version and we can make our channel Have the same success over time. It's going to take a lot of time and a lot of effort, but hey, I'm determined I'm committed to this channel. It's not like oh, am I thinking about quitting modern day debate in six months or something? No, no, no, I