Daily Tech News show is made possible by its listeners. Thanks to all of you, including Logan Larson, Mike Aikens, and Norm Physikus. Coming up on DTNS, will Apple lose its credibility by selling ads? Channel stores are the next big thing for cord cutting. And do we want AI to be more open? This is the Daily Tech News for Monday, August 15th, 2022 in Los Angeles. I'm Tom Merritt. And from Studio Red, but I'm Sarah Lane. And I'm the show's producer, Roger Chang. Joining us from the Addition newsletter, Charlotte Henry, welcome back. Hello, thank you for having me. Yes, you had to put up with me last week, and now I'm back again. I was going to say, you should be welcoming us back because you have hosted this show more recently than we have. I was, and it was great. It was, listen, I nearly didn't give you the keys back. That's what I'm going to say. Appreciate it, appreciate it. Let's start with a few tech things you should know. Meta and DoorDash confirmed they tested delivering purchases from Facebook Marketplace and several U.S. cities over recent months. The Wall Street Journal sources say deliveries would be made within 48 hours with items that can fit in a car trunk and sent up to 15 minutes away. In other delivery news, Uber Eats partnered with Office Depot for on-demand office and school supplies deliveries from 900 locations across the U.S. Uber One subscribers get free delivery and 5% discount on orders over $15. So, but don't eat them again. Especially if you're ordering toner. Intel updated a support page to state that Xe graphics on 12th-jam processors and Arc GPUs no longer support the DirectX 9 graphics API. Older games that run solely on DirectX 9 will still work through emulation through Microsoft's D3D9 on 12 interface on Windows 10 and 11. Older hardware will, of course, still support DirectX 9. The cyberspace administration of China published a list of 30 algorithms used by many of the country's most popular apps, including Taobao, WeChat, Maytuan, and Bydance's Daoyin. This gives each algorithm a classification number and also a brief description. In March, China passed new regulations requiring algorithm recommendation services to disclose algorithms that are used in apps. According to documents submitted by Microsoft to Brazil's National Competition Regulator, Sony sold more than twice as many PS4s as Microsoft sold Xbox One. This is Microsoft having to report this to the Brazilian regulator. Microsoft stopped reporting Xbox One sales in 2016 in its financial reports for that year. So this is our first insight into how well or not well the Xbox One sold. Lifetime PS4 sales sit at about 117.2 million as of March, meaning Microsoft sold less than 58.5 million units. Snap announced that its Snapchat Plus service is off to a respectable start, gathering over 1 million subscribers since launching in late June. Snap isn't just talking about subscriber growth, though, for the new subscription. It's also adding new features. Its new summer drop added a new few novel features for subscribers, including new app icons, more bitmoji backgrounds to choose from, a post view emoji that people will see after your Snap is viewed. But it seems the feature getting the most attention is called priority story replies. This will make subscriber responses, so if you're paying, more visible while interacting with verified Snap stars accounts, many of them being celebrities. That's why people want to pay four bucks so that Kim Kardashian will not hurt anymore, I guess, I don't know. Yeah, I mean, you know, whatever celeb is on there, best of luck. Alright, let's talk about one of the reasons companies like Snap are looking to subscriptions for revenue. It comes down to the alleged financial impact of Apple's app tracking transparency or ATT feature on ad businesses. You've probably heard the screams of Facebook about this from wherever you live, but Facebook and Snap both have blamed downturns in their ad revenue on this in part. Anyway, this comes as Apple itself reportedly looks to be interested in expanding its own ad business into a larger source of revenue for itself. The company recently announced that new ad units in iOS 16 will let advertisers place ads on the today tab in the app store and at the bottom of product pages for other apps. But Sarah, it looks like Apple has plans even beyond that. Indeed. So Bloomberg's Mark Gurman, who knows a lot about Apple stuff reports that Todd Teresa, who is the VP in charge of Apple's ad group wants to grow its revenue from the $4 billion a year. It is bringing in now to double digits. So that would be at least 150% of a markup for the company. Right now, Apple puts ads in its news and stock apps. You might have seen them before. The app store also has ads and in TV plus for Friday night baseball ads and news are split with publishers. It's not clear though how much everybody gets. Gurman suspects that to hit Teresa's desired revenue growth, Apple plans to expand ads to search results in maps. Also storefronts in Apple books, Apple podcasts. And there's always the option of an ad supported Apple TV plus tier. Gurman also noted that Apple's ads use data from all of Apple's services and your Apple account. Now you can opt out of that kind of personalization in iOS. If you do that, Apple can still identify your carrier, the device type, like, you know, is it an iPhone 17, iPhone 16, whatever. And what you read to determine which ads to serve. In other words, if you reading the Maps app, it knows you're in the Maps app stuff like that. Charlotte, I'm sure no one will have a problem with Apple cracking down on ad tracking from everyone else while adding more ads to their apps, right? No. Only a cynic would say that Apple took a giant whack out of some of their biggest rivals and then has looked to, you know, as Sarah said, it could be anything like nearly treble what they want to get from ads. Of course, no one would take a cynical view on that and nor would I because you guys have known me long enough to know that I'm not cynical at all. But it's this is a really big deal because Apple has put so much of its credibility of its sales pitch almost around privacy around that you're in its environment and therefore people are not hoovering up your data. Now I think most people understand that Apple gets some of your data like I don't think you'll be a surprise to many people that if you have an iPhone, Apple knows what kind of iPhone you have. I mean, just look in the, you know, some of the store app in your phone, it knows exactly what you're looking for and lots of ways that's to the benefit. But I've always felt that Apple has sold itself as a premium product and one of the premium elements of it is you pay a higher price, but you don't get inundated with ads. Now, I personally, in lots of instances, don't have a problem with ads. I'm happy for them to be on podcasts, including my own. I'm happy for them to pop up in web pages when I'm reading them if it's done, you know, neatly and cleanly and doesn't interfere too much when I've used some of the Apple services you listed and where there are already ads. It doesn't particularly, you know, it's not particularly to the detriment of my experience with those services. But I think Apple will tread a fine line because Apple users, I think, will, if they suddenly find themselves inundated with ads, will become really unhappy about it very quickly. You know, I think back to, gosh, this is only a couple of weeks ago when talking about Meta CEO Mark Zuckerberg saying, you know, Apple and Meta are really going to go head to head going forward. I mean, the ads business, it's obviously complicated between the two companies, but that kind of stuck with me when I... Relationship status, it's complicated. It is. It is very complicated. But it kind of stuck with me when I read this story, like, okay, so what exactly is Apple going for here that other companies aren't already doing? So maybe that's like an optimistic way to say, Apple's just playing the game, right? But it's also Apple and the company has taken so many hard lines against, this is what we don't do that other companies do in the past. And is that going to, I don't know, scare away some Apple faithful folks who don't appreciate this? I suspect the answer to that is no, just because what's the alternative? Yeah, you're in the ecosystem. I saw a hacker news thread yesterday, maybe day before yesterday, asking like, what are my good Linux based phone alternatives to Apple? Now that there, you know, it was a little bit of that early backlash of like, I don't care that it's first party ads. I don't care that it's no different than the ads it already has and they're only putting it on their own services. I don't like ads and I don't like Apple expanding them. What can I do? And the answer was, well, not much. There aren't a lot of other places you can go. Well, what do you, I don't like ads or data or a company collecting my data? What are you going to do by your Android phone? Yeah, because Apple isn't increasing the data collection and Apple isn't selling your data to anyone. And that's the case they're going to make is, look, these are first party ads. Well, we have been blocking his third party ads where they where the data is shared outside of Meta's ecosystem outside of Snap's ecosystem. And Apple isn't doing that yet, but this is a slope that they are tiptoeing down, which might turn out to be slippery. Yeah. And I keep going back to this. They've made such a big part of their whole marketing effort and sales pitch privacy.    Yeah. Yeah. No, it doesn't matter if they have to make the subtle argument about, yeah, but this is an increased data collection. This isn't privacy because the marketing message was not as subtle as that. And I think they will get some backlash, but I think you're right, Charlotte, because there aren't many alternatives. It's still, for most people, going to be the best of a lot of options. Good or bad. Well, another fun news item that is getting some backlash and also a lot of curiosity is text to image AI engine. So we're now familiar with the popularity of Dolly Mini. It's now called Crayon. Over the summer it was launched and the slow invite only, and by the way I'm still waiting for my invite, opening of Open AI's own Dolly 2 itself into public testing. But a text to image engine that will probably get a lot of more media eyeballs is new. This is TikTok's new AI green screen. I might say, what in the heck is that? It lets users generate a text to image prompt to use as a background on their video. So for anybody who's not familiar with green screen, it's whatever might be behind me in my view right now. I could put a, you know, I don't know, like a farmland or, you know, maybe I'm in space or that's the whole idea of having a green screen. So it lets users generate a text to image prompt to use as a background on their video. The engine behind it generates relatively abstract and swirling images, especially if you're trying to be incendiary and, you know, trying to fool it into, you know, doing some kind of crazy, rather than more complex or photorealistic outputs from Dolly 2 itself. Yeah, that's not meant to be a replacement for Dolly 2, even though people are like, ooh, TikTok adding AI. It's just meant to be a fun background generator. It totally is, yeah. Whereas generally speaking, the better the text to image model, the more limited its availability. So that's a really bad one available to everyone on TikTok. However, a startup called Stability AI wants to change that. It collaborated with a media creation company called Runway ML, some folks at Heidelberg University, the research groups of Luther AI and Leon to develop and release a photorealistic open source text to image AI system called Stable Diffusion. Now, so far, they've only released it to a thousand AI researchers, pretty standard practice for that kind of tech. The engine can run on consumer GPUs, though, with about five gigabytes of VRAM producing a 512 by 512 pixel image. So you might say, okay, Tom, well, why are we bringing it up if it's limited to just a thousand AI specialists? I mean, how many of those would be in our audience? Maybe some of you, but not that many. Stability AI plans for a full public launch in the coming weeks, both as a cloud service with tunable filters, as well as a local model. So anybody with a few hundred dollars to throw it a mid-range GPU like Nvidia's GTX 1660 could be able to run that on their own machine. It also comes with a permissive license that lets you use content for any purposes, including commercial purposes that might be attractive to some folks. So first of all, how good is this model if they're okay releasing it to the public? Because we already said that is ripe with issues. And second, how will they prevent misuse? Well, the model seems pretty solid. Scientist from Ludwig Maximilian University, Munich, used a cluster of 4,000 Nvidia A100 GPUs running on AWS to train it. They trained stable diffusion over the course of a month using a subset of the dataset Leon 5B. Leon 5B is an open source 250 terabyte dataset. It has 5.6 billion images scraped from the internet. Leon itself stands for large scale artificial intelligence open network. It's an open dataset. But because it's scraped from the internet, you may be like, okay, what's in there? Stable diffusion trained on a subset called Leon aesthetics. That contains 2 billion AI filtered images ranked as particularly beautiful by testers of stable diffusion. So AI ranked it and then actual humans went in and ranked it some more. The big defense against misuse is that dataset filtering. They're like, we're training it on really good data. The terms of service also prohibit the usual list of misuses, but there is no policy against images with public figures. That makes it different from crayon. And finally, if this is all open for me to run on my own computer locally, which it is, how is the stability AI going to make money? Well, once they've weathered the backlash over misuse, if that's even possible, the company does plan to monetize all of this by training private models for customers. Also saying it has other AI models in the works for generating audio, music and video. So this is sort of a first step. Yeah, so get people to use it and get it to be popular and well-known and then companies will come to you and say, hey, can you help us tailor it to do? And then you say, indeed, I can. What exactly are you looking for? Step three, profit. Charlotte, do you think there's a chance that they will be able to navigate the backlash better than other attempts to do this in public? Will they be able to learn from previous mistakes? I mean, any sensible business should do that. I just always get very twitchy in this idea of mass video and being linked with AI, because frankly, I appreciate all the things you're saying, this is not going to turn up on my TikTok tomorrow. I'm not going to see creators using these tools on my TikTok tomorrow and not be able to tell what's real and what's green screen. At the moment, it's fairly obvious what is, but you know, when you start putting this kind of technology into the world en masse, it's, you know, the possibility of deep fakes of people misusing it becomes quite severe. And that really is what worries me and they're going to have to set out quite clear guidelines to make sure that doesn't happen, because you can see kind of situations where people put up a video and claim to be in one spot and they're not. And it's very hard to tell the difference. It's already not that difficult to make deep fake video stuff like this is only moving to make it easier. I'm not some Luddite that doesn't want us to make this kind of progress, but you've got to balance it very carefully. Well, even something, okay, so over the weekend, one of our patrons said, hey, anybody want me to make a dolly image? And I said, yes, could you please make a Brontosaurus eating brunch at a posh place and possibly munching on some kale? I'm paraphrasing a little bit. And, and they sent some amazing results, amazing results. Wow, that's incredible. This is from Dolly Mini too. Yeah, it is. And Charlotte, when you look at this, are you fooled? Or can you kind of tell that it's AI? I mean, I'm pretty confident there's no Brontosaurus turning up at brunch.  It's a lovely little pocket brunt. That's not the kind of thing that worries me. No, no, certainly not. But, but if I were to then say, let's say somebody else creates that and they send it to me. And that becomes my, I don't know, Twitter banner image. And then there are issues because of who made it. And is it the AI or is it the person who sent it to me? Is it me? I think we're going to see a lot more of that going forward.  Yeah, and well, that's always been the fear. That's always been the fear. And it's rarely realized. Maybe this is the time it's realized. Yeah, Tom. Yeah, there's always the yet to that. But I feel like we can tell and we get sophisticated and we learn that these tools exist and we don't get fooled. And I think it's very brave of stability AI to try to be the one to take that step because there's always going to be a company who takes that step and says, let's trust people to learn the difference so that we can get the benefits of these tools, because otherwise they'll stay locked behind and only the elites can have access to them. And it takes a stability AI to be willing to take that chance. Whether they can navigate those choppy waters or not is what I'm wondering. Yeah, and as I say, we already have issues with deep fakes of, you know, they're normally, you know, X-rated and around celebrities. But again, this is just bringing that stuff more and more mainstream. And I'm not saying we shouldn't develop this technology. I just think we have to be really clear about what the risks are. And to be fair, it seems like stability AI are being very open and honest to try and make things as clear to people as possible. Yeah. Oh, and that was that was Dolly too, not Dolly Mini that did the Brontosaurus. Yes, Dolly too. Yes. I mean, it's a really lovely image. One of my favorites. It's lovely Brontosaurus. It's just a happy Brontosaurus having some kale and a coffee. Don't blame it. You know, Folks, if you would like to send us your AI pictures of Brontosaurus's drinking coffee and eating kale or anything else, our email address is feedback at dailytechnewshow.com. Data from an analyst company called Antenna shows that 19% of subscribers to subscription video on demand services, you know, Netflix, Hulu, HBO Max, SVODs, canceled three or more subscriptions in a two year period ending in June. That's up. The number was 6% in 2020. So it went from 6% to 19% or canceling stuff. Monthly customer cancellations of SVOD rose from 5.46% a month from 4.46% a year ago. But paradoxically, it's not that people are cutting down on services. The average number of subscriptions is rising. There's just more services to choose from. And so we're dumping some of the other ones. One method of fighting that is to bundle them up. Disney does that with Hulu and ESPN Plus and Disney Plus. You can merge your services like Warner's going to do with HBO Max and Discovery Plus. Another way is to get subscribers through what's called a channel store. Yeah. So the Wall Street Journal sources say that YouTube plans to launch a channel store as early as this fall. Right now, if you're a subscriber to YouTube TV, which I am, you can add services like HBO Max or Showtime. But you have to subscribe to that base 54 per month service first. You don't get the other stuff otherwise. The new offering would potentially allow you to add services without having to subscribe to YouTube TV at all or presumably YouTube Premium either. YouTube has more than 2 billion monthly logged in users. It's a big draw for everybody. So it becomes a compelling choice for services that want to gain adoption with a huge subscriber base that's already there. YouTube could show trailers for shows that lead to easy subscriptions or the like. Wall Street Journal reports that everybody's doing it. It's not just YouTube. Walmart is doing it. They just signed a deal to include Paramount Plus according to Wall Street Journal. Peacock is exploring similar add-on options to be not only a service provider but a platform as well. Walmart would supposedly make it part of your membership bill, which gets you other perks around shopping and shipping and stuff like that. Peacock would seemingly treat it as an add-on to the Peacock service the way Apple TV does, the way Amazon Prime Video does, the way Roku does, where you can add channels to those base services. Verizon even has something called PlusPlay, which if you're a Verizon subscriber, you can subscribe to external services like Netflix, for instance, and add it to your Verizon bill. The whole point is to get one bill. Charlotte, what do you think of the, as we start to figure out the price of services and people start to figure out how many they want, we're addressing that problem of having to pay 16 different bills and consolidating them into one. Yeah, I get why YouTube would want to do this, and I kind of get why the services would want to be part of it, because as you said, a lot of people use YouTube or live in YouTube, and so if you can get people to your service that they might not go to otherwise, why wouldn't you? I have an example from here when a Paramount Plus launch recently, I realized on the slightly older TV I have in one room that the app wasn't there, but I could access it through Amazon Prime Video and one of the channels there. I've watched the Spanish football channel where you can add on Amazon Prime Video as well, so it does make life easier when you have some apps and it becomes your kind of platform and the place you live.  We all just want to know how much we're going to pay each month for one service and it helps you budget. If anyone's going to be able to take on the kind of Apple and Amazon duopoly of this, clearly YouTube is going to be the place, particularly I would guess with younger viewers. Yeah, I don't know. I mean, I feel like the Amazon model is really what's driving this, even though I don't watch a ton of video on Amazon Prime Video, but I'm a Prime subscriber and I can if I want to. I just, you know, there are certain other places that I can get the content that I'm looking for, but it kind of reminds me of when Verizon bumped me off of the old grandfathered-in unlimited plan and was like, this limited plan is actually better. It's cheaper and will give you Apple, not Apple TV Plus, but Apple Music for free. You don't pay $10 a month. It's just part of your $85 a month thing and that was extremely attractive to me.  And I think companies are getting hip to the game that there are a lot of services that we, you know, are ingrained in our lives. We're going to use them anyway. So if you can give me some sort of a perk, some sort of a bundle that makes sense. I mean, it's kind of like recreating cable, but not just for watching things. But keeping the benefits of not having cable, right? Because you can add and subtract services easier and at a more fine-tuned level than you can with cable or satellite. I mean, there's a general thing going on in streaming, isn't there? Of like a rebundling, which, and this is clearly part of that same phenomenon. And also I think maybe for the services, they're like, oh my God, if people see another 799, 899, 999 coming out of their bank account, they're just going to cancel it. Whereas if they just see one bill, they'll let it roll on and on and on. Yeah, that $8 gets lost in your bill from Verizon, in your bill from Comcast, in your bill from Sky. I think that we are going to see a battle between those platforms, the ISPs, who should have been doing this a long time ago, but I think cable TV interests kind of kept them from wanting to jump on it too fast and saying, hey, you're already paying for phone service and or internet service. Why not just have your Netflix, your Disney Plus added through that and you can manage it all in one place. And the machine platforms, the Roku, if you notice Roku, Amazon, which makes the fire TV, YouTube made by Google, which makes the Google TV devices. It's the set top box TV operating system platforms versus the internet service provider as the platforms going for that one bill for all your services. And the one that's going to win is the one that makes it easiest and has the best selection. So Verizon's got an early lead by having Netflix. The question is, can it get everything else? I think the other point about this is it's particularly pertinent for the quote unquote newer streaming services. I'd be much more interested in being part of this if I was Paramount Plus or Peacock than if I was Netflix and certainly Apple where you've got your own thing anyway. Yeah, I think it's a tall order for Peacock to become a platform. You know, good luck to them. As a channel, I'd rather be one of these platforms as a Paramount Plus. That's my point. You're very correctly pointing out that Peacock needs adoption. And so being a platform is kind of a tall order for them. Walmart also because they don't have anything else. So you kind of don't think of them as being the place you want to go. Maybe it'll get enough people wanting to subscribe for free shipping. They can pull off an Amazon. But this is definitely the new battleground. We've figured out the services and the pricing is starting to consolidate. Now it's how do you want to pay for them? And which service do you want to consolidate your billing? All right, let's check out the mailbag. This one comes in from Kevin who had really nice feedback from our experiment week last week. Kevin says, Aloha DNS crew. DNS crew. Well, I enjoyed experiment week. My favorite show by far was Boba Tech from Nicole Lee. I'm an Asian American in the e-commerce industry. A doctoral student at Pepperdine with research focus on raising the voices of minorities in organizations. Nicole's show spoke directly to me and I'm grateful to her and Eileen for sharing their thoughts. Please pass along my compliments and my support. If they ever launch a Patreon, I'll be one of the first to sign up. Thank you, Kevin. That's great. I want to thank everybody who did experiment week stuff. Willie Scott, Brian Hoffman, Rob Dunwood and Rod Simmons and Charlotte. Charlotte had a great episode. Thank you so much for doing that episode as well, Charlotte. I loved that interview that you did. Yeah, it was really fun. It's kind of the style of my usual podcast, the edition podcast. But Chris is a great guest. He's literally written the books on TikTok on YouTube. If you want to talk about those subjects, he's the right person to get on. Yeah, it was really fun to be part of. So thank you for having me. Well, Charlotte Henry, thank you for being with us today. And let folks know where they can keep up with all your latest. Yeah, but if you haven't had enough of me, I'm at theedition.substat.com. That's a double day. And at Charlotte a Henry on Twitter and all the other social media platforms. And if you look for the book, not buying it on Amazon, I wrote that too. Excellent. We also have some brand new bosses to thank. They include a Sensei, Skyler, Kumar, Clint and Peter. They all just started back in us on Patreon. So big thanks to Sensei to Skyler to Kumar to Clint and to Peter. Ah, that could be you tomorrow. Patreon.com slash DTNS. Speaking of patrons, stick around for the extended show, Good Day Internet, where we talk about all the things. You can also catch the show, this show, DTNS, Monday through Friday at 4 p.m. Eastern, 2100 UTC. If you can catch us live, we'd love to have you find out more at dailytechnewshow.com slash live. We are back tomorrow talking to Def Con with Shannon Morse. Talk to you then. This show is part of the Frog Pants Network. Get more at frogpants.com. Diamond Club hopes you have enjoyed this program.


The United States Senate voted to advance a $1 trillion infrastructure package on Saturday. This is a procedural, or rather, but important step forward after months of negotiations between President Joe Biden and a bipartisan group of senators. In a 67-27 votes demonstrating broad bipartisan support, senators agreed to limit debate on the legislation. This represents the biggest investment in decades in America's fiscal infrastructure, including roads, bridges, airports and waterways. But the timing for passage remained unclear as lawmakers prepared for possible votes on amendments. They've also worked behind closed doors to reach an agreement that would allow the Senate to complete its work on the legislation quickly. The chamber's top Republican Mitch McConnell signaled his support for the bill, and after hours of close-on negotiations, senators were unable to reach agreement on Thursday on a final batch of amendments. On this vote, the yeas are 67, the nays are 27, three-fifths of the senators duly chosen and sworn having voted in the affirmative. The motion is agreed to. We're rising to the challenge. The bill before us, the Infrastructure Investment and Jobs Act includes, among other provisions, the largest federal investment in public transit in history, the largest investment in clean drinking water and wastewater infrastructure in history, the largest investment in clean energy transmission in history, the largest investment in climate resiliency in history, and the largest investment in transportation electrification in history. Is this bill perfect? No. No compromise legislation ever is. But it will make a big difference in modernizing our country's infrastructure. More than that, we will demonstrate that both Republicans and Democrats can come together and do big things that move our country forward.


Electricity demand has been growing rapidly in recent years due to industrialization and the transition to a smart grid system. To meet this increased demand, more microgrids, renewable energy sources, plug-in electric vehicles, and energy storage systems need to be installed. These changes require the existing electrical power systems to be adapted and reconfigured to accommodate the higher loads. Demand side management, DSM, programs can help address these challenges and improve the reliability and financial performance of electrical power systems. This paper reviews various initiatives, techniques, impacts, and recent developments of DSM in electrical power systems. It also provides an extensive literature survey on the impacts of DSM on the reliability of electrical power systems. Finally, it identifies research gaps and provides directions for future work. This article was authored by Hussain Jammet, Jabir, Jashantay, Dahaman Ishak, and others. We are article.tv, links in the description below.


Alright guys, so I've got 15 remote job companies that you have never seen before that are always hiring for these work from home or remote positions. And these companies specifically are going to be hiring for entry-level positions. So you're going to be able to go into this whether you have a ton of experience or you have no experience at all. So if you appreciate me doing these types of videos, gently tap that like button and let's get into it with number one on the list, which is going to be Sarnova. Now Sarnova is a U.S. healthcare company and their distributor of healthcare products for EMS, fire department, police forces, nurses, and hospital staff. Now the reason I included this one on the list is because I only find the best stuff for you guys. And this company actually won an award for the 2023 great place to work certification. And they actually won it for the third year in a row, right? So we spend a ton of time researching all of these probably like 100 hours for each video. And we only like to include the best companies. Now here are some of the benefits of working at this company. I'll have them pop up on the screen. And some of the highlights here are the work that you do actually makes a difference in saving lives. That's awesome. But also there's going to be great benefits, flex PTO, hybrid work from home schedule, full suite of health and wellness benefits, 401k matching, tuition reimbursement, adoption assistance, and let's not forget about pet insurance. So yeah, some really good options there. And one of the remote jobs that they often hire for is going to be a customer care representative. Now this position makes between 36 and $46,000 a year. But there's a lot of other options at this company that are not entry levels such as sales account manager, they make between 83 and $136,000 a year, or an e commerce merchandiser that makes about $56 to $85,000 a year. So yeah, a lot of good options here has some great ratings online. Definitely a good one to look into, especially if you want to work in the health care industry and especially if you want to get a remote job. Here are some jobs that are available right now have them pop up on the screen. And the next one on the list is going to be reminder media. And this is a company that works with business owners and sales professionals to streamline their client contact process. So they focus on eliminating concerns about reaching out to clients and following up with leads. And the company's goal is to create tools and services that automate your marketing process. Now this company has a better business bureau a plus rating, and it's one of the top 5000 incorporated companies. So this is definitely an up and coming company. And they have some really great benefits as well. So I'll have those benefits pop up on the screen right now. I'm not going to read them all off, but there's a lot there, you know, they have health insurance, they offer an HSA account, which is awesome. They offer college loan refinancing, which as we all know a lot of Americans need that and they offer a good amount of paid time off. Now some of the jobs that they often hire for are going to be remote call center, which makes around 65 to $120,000 a year inside sales, which you can make about 65 to $120,000 a year and phone sales, which will make about 65 to $120,000 a year as well. And they have some really great ratings online. Now I don't know if you've noticed, but there is a ton of channels on YouTube that are dedicated to teaching you how to do sales. And there's a reason for that. Sales is one of the most sought after positions. Companies cannot find qualified people who are good at sales. And on top of that, sales is a job that you really don't need much experience to get into. Plus you can make a ton of money. And this is why you see all these different YouTube channels promoting this career. And many of them actually partner up with the companies and then they get paid a referral fee when they send someone to the company. And by the way, I actually teach other YouTubers how to do this. So if you're interested in learning how to start a highly profitable YouTube business, check out the link down in the description below and you can apply for my coaching. Next on the list is going to be triple point PR. And this is a communications agency that offers extensive PR or public relations services. And this includes media relations, influencer marketing, event management, etc. And they have an extensive list of well known clients. They work with Blizzard, Meta, Pokemon, Mario Brothers and Sega. Now they offer a good amount of bonuses. For one, a lot of their workers are remote. There's profit sharing and bonuses. You get insurance, vacation 401k matching. You also receive a corporate mastercard for any business related expenses that you have. And depending on your position, you may get to travel to different industry related events. And they hire for several different positions, such as account coordinators that make about 42 to $56,000 a year, account executives, which make about 61 to $100,000 a year and other associates that make about 46 to $78,000 a year. And they also have really good ratings online. And that's why I included them on this list. So check out some of the job opportunities. I'll have them pop up on the screen. And let's move on to the next one, which is R1 RCM. R1 RCM is a leading provider of technology driven solutions that enhance the financial performance and patient experience of healthcare organizations. And this is an up and coming company that has over 28,000 employees. So they have pretty good benefits. I'll have them pop up on the screen. And some of the remote jobs they hire for are going to be follow up associates that make about 32 to $42,000 a year, junior recruiters that make around 48 to $72,000 a year and patient access associates that make about 36 to $52,000 a year. So this is kind of what I've talked about so many times on this channel. There's all kinds of weird little niche health related careers that you can get into. They're relatively easy to get into. And a lot of the time they pay pretty well too. So yeah, this is another good one to look into. Next one on the list is going to be ONB or ONBE. This is a fintech company that specializes in modernizing and managing business to business individual disbursements. And they focused on fast, convenient and versatile payment solutions. And this company has won a bunch of different employee related accolades, such as getting on the list of built in best places to work, Textio 2022 Growth Mindset Award, the Goldy Award Silver winner for the Golden Bridge Awards, the Globe Awards, Golden Winner for the Women in Business Award, the Stevie Award for 2022 International Businesses, and the Stevie Award 2023 for Sales and Customer Service. And they have industry leading benefits, 13 paid holidays, unlimited paid time off, you can work from anywhere, parental leave for up to 15 weeks. They offer an HSA, which is great. And of course, they have wellness benefits. They have a 4.4 star rating on Glassdoor, which is awesome, and 93% of the employees approve of the CEO. Now, some of the jobs that I saw them hiring for were associate Java engineer, they make about 102 to $110,000 a year plus bonus, client support specialist who makes about $49 to $61,000 a year with an eligibility for an annual bonus, and fraud investigations associate that makes about $47 to $63,000 a year plus bonus. Now, a lot of these jobs are tech related. And one of the easiest ways to get into the technology industry is to get into an entry level IT help desk role. And I've interviewed a bunch of people on this channel that have actually done this, and they all went through the company course careers. So definitely check out course careers. They're awesome. They've been getting people jobs left and right at a very affordable rate. And they even have a free course on how to learn about IT help desk and get started in IT help desk. And I'll put that down in the description as well as the pinned comment below. Next on the list is going to be focus forward and they hire in the US as well as worldwide. And they basically provide a wide range of research services such as recruitment, transcription, translation, and coding. And basically what they do is they pay people who are in your company's target demographic to do focus groups or to take surveys. Now, this is going to be one of the easier ones to get hired for. And one of the positions that they often hire people for is going to be a market research interviewer and they get paid around $15 an hour. Then they also hire transcribers which get paid around 40 cents per audio minute. So yeah, another really good one to look into, especially if you're just trying to get into a really quick entry level position. Next on the list is going to be enterprise mobility. Now, this is actually a transportation focused family owned business. And they actually operate across 100 different companies with a large fleet of trucks. They've got a ton of different awards. This is one of those companies that's pretty good. And they take their reputation very seriously. And they have a ton of different benefits. I literally can't even mention all of them. So I'll just put them up on the screen. If you want to pause it and check it out, you can. Now some of the remote jobs they typically hire for are going to be automotive maintenance coordinator. They make about 18 to $21 per hour, automotive service advisors that make about 24 to $26 an hour, and reservation sales representatives that make about $17 and 25 cents per hour. And they have some pretty good ratings online. So definitely check this out. If any of those careers seem interesting to you, I'll put some other career opportunities up on the screen. Next on the list is going to be one support. And they basically do exactly what they sound like. They provide customer support and technical support services. And they primarily operate in the technology and telecom industries.  They have an A plus rating on the better business bureau website. And they hire a ton of entry level jobs. Now they don't pay amazingly well. But again, this is one of those where you could get your first remote job, just get your foot in the door relatively quickly. So for instance, they hire technical support representatives for $12 an hour, sales support representatives for $12 an hour, client support representatives for $12 an hour, and bilingual sales support representatives for $12 to $15 an hour. And this company has really good ratings online. Now by the way, if you're finding this video useful, and you think of anyone else who might also find the video useful, make sure to share it with them. There's probably lots of people out there that could benefit from finding these really good companies and securing quality work opportunities. Next on the list is going to be Maximus. And they specialize in offering transformative technology services. So they basically focus on digital customer experiences and clinical health services. They've won a ton of different awards. They're very well recognized and respected. They have a ton of different company benefits, like so many, I can't even name them. So I'll just have them pop up on the screen. And some of the remote jobs they typically hire for are going to be a trainer that makes around $16 to $36 per hour, a customer advocacy specialist that makes about $42 to $50,000 a year, a software systems engineer that makes $42 to $100,000 a year, any proposal writer which makes $42 to $90,000 a year. This company also has really good ratings online. Of course, I try to only include companies that have good employee satisfaction scores. So yeah, definitely another good one to look into. Next on the list is going to be Nelnet. Now this is basically a company that services and takes care of student loans. And they do other stuff outside of that like insurance financing and other type of financial related services. But the student loan thing is what they're really well known for. So this company is benefiting off of the absolute dumpster fire that the US education system and specifically the student loan system created. But with that being said, somebody's got to do it. And they have a lot of awesome perks and benefits. Put them up on the screen so you can check them out. Some of the remote jobs they often hire for are going to be Nelnet customer service advisor, they make about $16 and 20 cents per hour, plus an extra dollar per hour if you can speak Spanish, a first mark customer service advisor that would be making about $14 an hour, and a value added services implementation specialist, which makes between $44 and $48,000 a year. So yeah, it's another one that's relatively easy to get into, probably not something you want to do for the rest of your career, but it could be a really quick win.  Next on the list is a very famous company called Vanguard.  And Vanguard is basically an extremely well respected investment company, and they provide a wide range of different financial services. They've received a bunch of different awards throughout the years. Here's some recent ones. They have a ton of different benefits and perks. I'll have them pop up on the screen. And one of the remote jobs they often hire for is going to be a client service excellence representative. And they get paid about 56 to $63,000 a year. Now, I happen to know that Vanguard definitely cares a lot about their customer experience. Most people who use Vanguard are very happy with them, probably because they invest so much in basically hiring customer service representatives, although it has a much fancier name. And that's probably one of the reasons why they have such a good rating online. So this is one where if you got this on your resume, it's going to look really good, even if it's just for kind of like a customer service representative type of role. So you might as well apply to this one if you're looking for a job. By the way, if you haven't done it already, what are you thinking? Go ahead and subscribe to the channel. This is the best channel on the internet teaching people how to make money online in a bunch of different ways. So just go ahead, hit that button down below. Next one on the list is going to be a company called Cinch. And this is a company that hires in the US and also worldwide. And this is a company that specializes in customer communication. And they offer a cloud based platform that enables businesses to engage in meaningful conversations with their customers across various channels like messaging, voice and email. Now they've won a lot of awards here, some of the recent ones that they've won. They've got some pretty good benefits. I'll put them up on the screen. And some of the remote jobs this company hires for are going to be accounts payable specialist at about 17 to $23 an hour application support administrator at $17 to $23 an hour as well and a customer support specialist that makes about 36 to $45,000 a year. So yeah, this one has pretty good ratings online could be a good opportunity. I'll put some other, you know, opportunities that they recently posted on the screen right now. You can check them out. And the next on the list is going to be Sedgwick. Sedgwick offers risk and benefits solutions helping businesses and their employees with health productivity and claims management. And the company operates globally providing tailored support in various sectors like property. Now they've won a ton of different awards. I'll put them up on the screen. They also have a lot of perks and benefits. Definitely not going to name all of these, but I'll put them up on the screen as well. And some of the remote positions they often hire for are going to be workers compensation future medical claims examiner. Wow, that's a mouthful. But they make about $80 to $90,000 a year. They also hire proposal specialists that make about $59,000 a year. And they've got pretty good ratings online. If you want to check out some current opportunities that they just posted, I'll put them up on the screen right now. Next one on the list is going to be a company called Vanta. Now this is basically a trust management platform and they simplify and centralize security for various different organizations and 4,000 different companies actually use Vanta to establish and maintain their security in a real time transparent manner.  I'll put some of the more recent ones up on the screen right now. Here's a bunch of the benefits they offer, which there's a lot. Now they often hire payroll specialists, which they pay 91 to $107,000 a year. They hire technical support specialists, which they pay 80 to $94,000 a year, and they hire GRC subject matter experts, which they pay 187 to $220,000 a year. So this is definitely one that's a little bit on the higher end of the spectrum. Here are some other job opportunities that they recently posted. I'll put them up on the screen. So this one might be a little bit harder to get into than some of the other ones, but they also have really good ratings online. Next on the list is going to be Gramly. This one is available worldwide and they offer copy editing services that enhances writing clarity, grammar, and overall readability and their service focuses on impactful writing that resonates emotionally with readers. Now they offer revisions within 24 hours and they have a customer satisfaction guarantee and basically what they say is these are copy editing services for those who care about perfection. So they're kind of positioning themselves as like the premium brand. Now not only do they let you work from home, but they also let you work flexible hours. So you get to determine your own availability. Now I'll be honest with you, this one is probably going to be better for people who live outside of first world English speaking countries because the pay rate is going to be a bit low for the US. So this is going to be a better opportunity for people who live outside of the US, most likely. And they don't say exactly how much they pay, but there's some estimates online that they probably pay around $5 to $10 per hour. So yeah, this company has really good ratings online as well. And here is the opportunity to apply. I'll put that up on the screen so you can check it out. Now by the way, if you're a night owl and you want a remote job, I did make a video on the 19 work from home jobs that you can do at night. And you can check that out by clicking right here.


While the Fulbe Fulani's social-cultural group has endorsed the candidacy of the People's Democratic Party PDP presidential candidate Atiku Abu Bakar, the endorsement came during a mega gathering at the Mahmoud Rabiou-Ribadu Square with thousands of Fulani's from the Northeast geopolitical region. The director Fulbe Not East, Alhaji Musa Ardo, declared that their decision is the result of Atiku's political good records. According to him, they have taken Abu Bakar as their sole candidate and cannot bug him with any presidential candidate. Fulbe Not East in the Northeast geopolitical zone has been following activities of all the political leaders in the region and have endorsed his Excellency, Alhaji Atiku Abu Bakar, GCON Waziri Ademar, as our choice for the President of Nigeria, Quals 2023 General Election. We have equally endorsed his Excellency, the right Honorable Ahmad Umar of Hintiri, of the PDP in other mosques, our Governor-Communitorial candidate. Let me make it clear that our choice for these personalities is a premise on their capacities and competencies. We have seen and been convinced by the leadership qualities of Alhaji Atiku Abu Bakar was in Ademar. We have equally seen what Fintiri has demonstrated in Ademar State, the few years of his service to his people. To all his headers, his impressors and makers, sure.


Welcome to the non profit show. We are so glad you're here with us today. We're also extremely honored to have Jeffrey Wilcox back. Jeffrey is the CEO at Third Sector Company, and he's here to talk about the state of the interim profession. So stay with us because, again, Jeffrey has a lot to cover in the short amount of time as well as an invitation for you coming up throughout this conversation. So again, to remind you who we are, if we haven't met you yet, Julia Patrick is here. She serves as the CEO for the American Nonprofit Academy, and I'm Jarrett Ransom, your nonprofit nerd CEO of the Raven Group. And again, honored to be here, Julia, day in, day out to have these thought leader conversations with so many amazing experts in our sector. We also want to give our gratitude to our amazing presenting sponsors. They're the ones that keep us going. And so we're so very honored to have the support of Bloomerang American Nonprofit Academy, your part time controller, nonprofit thought leader, fundraising academy at National University, staffing boutique, nonprofit nerd and nonprofit tech talk. Many of these companies have been with us since March of 2020, helped us produce over 800 episodes, bringing in diversity and so many different perspectives into the conversation. So if you missed any of the episodes, guess what? You can find us on many different streaming platforms, podcasts, broadcasts, and the latest and greatest is you can download the app. So go ahead and plot your smart phone. Scan that QR. Thank you, Vanna White, who has joined us today, Julia Patrick, and scan that QR code. You know, I always like to say this, she's from my hometown of South Carolina, like not my town town, but she's home state, I should say. So Vanna White is from South Carolina. But yes, go ahead and scan the QR code and you can, in just a few hours after today's live conversation with Jeffrey, you'll get a notification that the recording is ready for your pleasure. So without further ado, Jeffrey, you've waited so patiently. I want to remind all of our viewers and listeners who you are again. So Jeffrey R. Wilcox, CFRE, CEO at Third Sector Company. Welcome back, my friend. It is, it's like coming home. Thank you, Jared. Thank you, Julia. Well, tell us a little bit, Jeffrey, start us off, you know, briefly tell us a little bit about the third sector and a little bit about yourself because you're going to talk to us about the state of the interim profession. And again, provide that invitation to all of our viewers and listeners today.  I'm happy to do that. Always difficult to talk about oneself, but I'm very proud of all the people who make up Third Sector Company. You know, I spent about 20 years with United Ways and three cities across this country. And I saw firsthand how executive transitions were costing charitable dollars, costing goodwill, costing community trust, because they weren't done well. And there was one thing I learned, Jared, about this work. There's one thing that no funder can write a check for, and that is human assets and human talent. It's the human capital that built our sector. And so I started Third Sector Company because it was great to raise money and distribute it. But my role was to help to cultivate the talent that was necessary for great people to do great things in this country. And Third Sector Company was born. Mission statement to help foster leadership continuity for organizations, congregations and associations. Well, you know, I think it's amazing that you're on the inside throughout your entire career. You get to see this ecosystem, and then you really lean in and do something that's quite innovative and very different. And so let's start out by going back a little bit and having you really clarify this concept of interim leadership and, dare I say, interim management. Tell us about that. I love how you worded the question because there is a huge difference between the individual who chooses to do interim management and the individual who chooses to provide an interim leadership. This is more than just a casual play on words. You know, Julia, for the longest time, interim management was kind of the substitute teacher watering the plants, bringing in the newspaper made sure the dog was fed. And I don't mean to belittle that, but the fact of the matter is it's left so much possibility on the table. And what interim leadership really does is it helps a group of ordinary people to figure out what they want to accomplish in an extraordinary way. And from that conversation, the new kind of leader will emerge. What interim leadership does is guarantees operational excellence, while operational excellence, while helping organization to move from what they want in the next leader to having consensus on what they need in their next leader, and I will tell you that goes across the gamut of organizations because they're also different because of people and purpose and location. But I will tell you, interim leadership is methodical, and it's transformational, and it's profound. And that's why I get up every morning so excited to have the job I have. Well, and it's strategic and that's what I love to share to and full transparency, you know, I started serving as an interim leader well before I met you Jeffrey, and then I took, you know, the third sector Academy course really got like so many additional tools in my toolbox. And I brag about the certificate all the time, really love it but I really do like to advocate to say just what you said, we're not coming substitute teachers, we're not coming in as babysitters we're coming in as change agents right, and then really in a strategic manner. And so I love that you really have just dedicated your career and your passion to this advocacy work so thank you for that. Well, thank you. You know, and what's been great is when you see the results of it from leadership, you have organizations that are feeling a sense of alignment, and I can guarantee you probably what brought the interim into the organization was a tremendous sense of not being. And it's that aligning process and walking away and knowing that you've left a group of people focused on finding higher ground in their service to others will give you a level of satisfaction that ideas they most careers cannot. Yeah, yeah. Will you talk about these 10 main interim leaderships in the sector, would you tell us what these 10 main interim relationships are. Yeah, you know, when we started in this business I think most, most folks it's going back 20 years yes I was six years old but it's going back 20 years and, and it was you know, pretty much a person voluntarily or voluntarily left their executive director position and there was an interim needed until a successor had been found. Okay, well that that was kind of the interim relationship, but we also found out that you know there are people who voluntarily left to our founders, and that kind of added a different to spend everything because it's like if they leave the whole organization lead. So let me answer your question directly what we discovered 21 years of doing this is this is not a one size fits all. And the good news is the public and private sectors have finally caught on to something we've known the nonprofit sector for I don't know about 400 years when when we invented this thing called the interim pastors in the in the religious communities.  I mean, now the people who sit on boards are starting to go into their own workplaces and recognize that their businesses are being positively impacted by intrams and so can our nonprofits. That's led to a variety of relationships here's a few just to try on. Number one, we recommend that organizations who've never had an executive to have an interim first. The truth is that first time is probably going to be an interim while everybody tries to get used to having a first time meeting. So there's the first time. There's also the last time. There's an organization who has fulfilled its missions no longer viable. And so you need an interim who actually is experienced in in sunsetting a nonprofit. And that's, that's a very defined skill set. But wait, there's more. There's also the organizations today that are amalgamating and consolidating and are choosing an interim as their first merged situation. So people need to be experienced in mergers and acquisitions. I gotta tell you, we love seeing that in the sector but it requires a skill set that that we're going to bring people who've never worked together into community for the first time. A couple more. We didn't know this one. We got a letter from from the courts asking if we would provide an interim because a nonprofit had filed for bankruptcy. So today we have in terms who are actually considered expert witnesses in testimonials to courts, whether an organization can come out of bankruptcy or not, and to file a strategy with the court to, you know, be a chapter seven versus a chapter 11. And those who are actually interim COO's. Now, everybody on the screen knows there's a lot of execs who probably should learn to work with what we'll call a partner in the workplace but they have this inability to get a second in command, if you will. So we now have interim chief operating officers, which allows two execs to work together to test a position that really needs to be in place. And another one, the virtual interim, you know, today there can be a boys and girls club in rural South Dakota that definitely needs an interim executive, because those children, that's the only place they have in that small community. You know what they don't have any intrams in that small community. So we have another kind of relationship it's virtual and remote. One set in Phoenix with all of your expertise and help a small community in South Dakota, operate a boys and girls club so those children those young people have a place to go and you still in Arizona while you do it. The virtual and remote interim is the way of the future. And then the last one. I got to tell you as a purist, you don't like this, but you go with the marketplace everybody. It's called the temp to perm. There are some organizations who quite frankly, have not been good employers, and they keep scratching their head going, Why can't we keep anybody. Okay, so what we're encouraging to do interim if it works out that may be a permanent solution they should embrace because they just had a revolving door. There's your 10 look at the variety it's not a one size fits all. And I love that you mentioned that right that it's not a one size fits all and I can only take on so many interim and one given time but I love really educating people on these opportunities and looking at the possibilities of what that looks like. So, so thank you for these 10 thank you for sharing, you know the gamut of what that could simply look like. But let's go now into the demographics right like what's the demographics of perhaps these 10 different, you know, opportunities and relationships. What we're seeing when it comes to an interim leader. I read just by virtue of your interest in this profession and the personification of who you are. I'm just having you on the screen really speaks to the trend we're seeing in demographics towards interim leadership. And you know I applaud you I'm thrilled to work with you I'm thrilled to know you because you represent the kind of interim leader of today and tomorrow. In this business. The truth is, for most individuals the demographic was mid 60s or later. This was what was called at that time the encore career. Yeah. Okay, and that and that was actually the operative word interim leadership became on for career national organizations founded is a great way for retirees within their system to be redeployed to executive vacancies elsewhere in their system. So all of a sudden I've been the executive of an organization Cincinnati for years I got to go to Phoenix for three months of the winter. Nothing wrong with that. And so that was kind of the demographic. Now that's changing and thankfully so that it's more diverse. Number one, the average age is lowering because we have a better sense of a work life balance. Depending on an individual's personal state, interim executive leadership provides more of a work life balance than working 90 hours per week for a single not for profit organization, which for a lot of people is not only a job as a calling and thank goodness for that. But for a number of people, the work life balance is more what they are looking for. Another demographic that we're seeing to is people are coming from other sectors than just the nonprofit sector. This was usually just someone who had been a current nonprofit person. Now this is someone who's like been a volunteer for a long time they really want to do something in the nonprofit sector. They look at interim work, but we've still got some work to do, because interim leadership by nature is episodic. And we need to make sure that we are encouraging persons particularly persons of color and persons of lower income to be welcome into this profession. I think that's a full well of the economic needs that they have, but yet they're lived experiences and the questions they ask is the kind of leadership these organizations need to form a bridge between their past and their future. Jeffrey, let me ask you this question. Do you feel like an interim can come from like say the cultural, you know, sector of our nonprofit space, and then move into say animal welfare or domestic violence. Do you feel like these interims need to really be within a certain category, we always say there are nine main categories, you know, across the nonprofit sector. What are your thoughts on this. Oh, I have very strong thoughts about this organizations that are in transition will really benefit from a person who brings a different perspective. Their perspective is going to add to the richness of the conversation. And the other thing is their questions because they're not embedded within a particular industry are asking questions others may be afraid or embarrassed to ask, but they need to be asked. Interesting. So I'll give you a perfect example. We had someone who had been a career, early childhood development person that became an interim at a botanical center. It was the best thing they ever did. They couldn't identify a plant in their own garden. But the fact of the matter was, they went into this botanical center, and they asked all the right questions about activities and keeping people involved. Family versus individual activities, the botanical center flourished under this childcare this preschool early childhood education professional. But there is I mean, another dad joke as we talked about this in the greener matter. They've got the nursery as their baseline right like. Well, I have strong feelings to Jeffrey and they are in alignment with yours and that is definitely something that I do you know brag about as well is that seeing it from a different perspective, asking the questions that were not so baked in the jargon and the lexicon of the of that work. I really do think that you know during this time Julia, it does provide that opportunity for an even higher strategic movement right like really pulling back to say okay, why do we do it this way. Why do we call it that why you know why is this always been our process might we consider something else and so what Jeffrey had just shared is really you know I see it as an advantage. You know Julia we've proudly we have helped facilitate over 400 interim engagements in our in our careers. I want to go back to the very first one to illustrate your point. Our very first placement was was at a local community LGBTQ center. They were looking for obviously an interim executive director at a time, 20 years ago, when AIDS and coming out in the whole community had had not evolved as it has today. But here's the moral to the story. The edge of that was available was the immediate executive director of Planned Parenthood of Boise, Idaho and this individual happened to be straight. And never in the history of that organization did they ever consider having a straight executive director of an LGBTQ community. And you know what, they hired this individual as their interim. And through that process of everything they learned at Planned Parenthood in a fairly unusual community to provide that kind of leadership, they brought to that center and I can't tell you the accolades, the advancement, the models, the community building that straight person was able to provide to the LGBTQ center as an interim. And that was your first one you're saying that was our first one. Wow. And imagine all the stories for the other 399, because I know there's more in the works. That's right. That's magic. It makes me think about the concept that good leadership is good leadership and management is management. And really going into the weeds of what it is your product is, your services, you've got to come back up and look at what the procedures and the processes are to get you through to that next level that you want to achieve. And so understanding good leadership and management is where it's at. Before we let you go and we don't have that much more time, but I really want to talk about this conference that's coming up. It's such an interesting opportunity for the nonprofit sector to learn more about what's going on with interim. Share with us this concept. This is the first time you're putting this on? Yes. And you know, we use the we because it really is a national community of people. It's not third sector company is trying to be a catalyst. And so what what you're seeing here is the coming together of the first to the best of my knowledge standalone independent gathering of self identified interim leaders across the United States and Canada. And one of my my greatest memories when I first met Jared and she went through the Academy is one of the one of the joys of this job is to really understand and practice but I'll call it disruptive innovation. And it's to be a disruptive and or a disruptor. And, and that really resonated with you didn't Jared about. Yeah, to my core. Yeah, yeah. So what this conference is as we look at the profession through through three lenses around this idea of, you know, really being a little bit of a disruptor in an organization's evolution. And we use word disruptor here because it is begging questions that should be answered as people come together to accomplish something in community. That's where that comes from. It often requires a disruption because there's a lot of assumptions involved. So this conference Julia, on day one, we really talk about the state of the profession. You know where where has innovative disruption occurred. And what does that mean. On the second day we're going to look at just the practice, what's happened to interim leadership in terms of its disruption and its contributions to the sector. And then we look at to it as an individual organizational levels. And on the third day we look at it from the profession. I'm really excited about our key notar. Our key notar at the time of the tragic shooting on the Michigan State University campus. These those students were taken to a hospital that was under the care of an interim president and CEO and medical director. The world heard from an interim leader of a hospital, all eyes on him. At the time those students who were shot on campus were taken. The world was waiting to hear the condition of these students.  And I can't wait to hear Dr. Jenny Martin speak. I can't wait to hear the chills just speak of this and the power right of that position. Just fascinating. Yeah, I really speaks volumes you know to to the profession. So, does, but Jerry you're also on the docket, you're, you are one of the 40 people who are shaping this industry at the conference. I'm really excited. I'm really excited and I love you said you know there's 40, you know speakers 40 people really involved at telling their story, helping to shape the industry. I'm thrilled so on Friday I will be a panelist talking about branding your practice and getting the job. So I'm really looking forward to that. Ingrid is a panelist with me I cannot think of her last name at this time. Ingrid Chris from Lincoln, Nebraska. Perfect yeah so me from Arizona her from Nebraska talking about branding your practice as an interim and getting the job.  Jeffrey tell us where your summit or your conference is going to be held the dates July 26 to the 28. Where is it going to be and how can people learn about it. Can you can you attend virtually or is this all in person talk to us about that. Sure, it is a virtual online experience from start to finish, and it has been adjusted to accommodate all of the six time zones that will be participating from Honolulu all the way to the Atlantic provinces of Canada. Wow. And so yeah it's about four hours or such each day. We're also going to have a lot of affinity group discussions. And you simply need to go to the website name Jeffrey it's the national just go to the do the interim national summit as a search and it will give you all of the registration information you certainly can find it by going to www interim executives Academy, and that's one of our programs and you'll find it that website as well. Awesome. Awesome. So, you know, I love that you're doing this virtually because that means that, you know, over a three day period or excuse me two day period. There's a lot that people can jump in and jump out of and or fully commit to that section each day. Really exciting, really, really exciting. As we finish up. Do you think that this conference will be a catalyst for people that want to say okay this is how I want to move my, my career into becoming an interim, or do you think it's going to be more focused on organizations understanding why they need to embrace this concept. Is see all of the above fair here, you know, because this is, you know, Julia because this is the first time we're still as professions as professionals and as a profession. We're still working on our identity. You know, for some people were were a variation on consulting. Some of us don't like that analogy. Others are like, you know, I'm trying to figure out what I'm doing. I'm in an interim myself. I'm trying to figure out what I want to do in life. The statistic we know is is that only one in eight persons who actually studies interim work actually can find the place that it works best for them in their work to life balance on it is it is a romantic notion to work, you know, in another context for a little while, but the economic realities of that, and being able to be with and without work and having some downtime for a lot of people that's hard when it really gets into it so this conference will do three things. It will remind us what the profession really is. It will advocate to the sector why you need in terms. And most importantly, it will validate that we are a community of professionals unlike any others that exist in the country right now. You know, I love that you mentioned, you know, for some people really looking at that interim because when I talk to potential organizations. I say it could be as short as six months as long as nine, knowing that it still has potential to go beyond that and what I think we've seen and I've talked to you, you know, during coven the last three years is really that interim has gone beyond nine months in many cases, it's even gone beyond that 12 months and something that we've talked about Julia on the show over 800 episodes and some including with Jeffrey is really looking at that C sweet retirement, right like looking at potentially the founder retiring the long term CEO who's been there or COO who's been there, really looking at how can we look at succession planning for the organization across. The entire organization and you know and that's big one and and Jeffrey I was a part of an interim CEO opportunity and what we were considering the second founder right and so this individual was there for 10 plus years. We're really looking at, you know, the potential of the candidates coming in and the organization offered to two different individuals, and they both declined because their organization did not have a succession plan. And so they would have left their organization in a lurch, right, because they would have been leaving this organization to take the leadership at another organization, and therefore leading, you know, leaving this other one without without a leader so cannot wait for the summit cannot wait to hear from all 40 individuals 39 plus myself and really learning more because lifelong leaders I know the three of us are and really looking at you know how this shapes the sector. So for those of you watching and listening, please look at third sector company calm. Jeffrey Wilcox joined us today again serves as CEO of the third sector company just so grateful to have your time and your expertise with us today. So thank you. It's been a lot of fun to see this journey. I get to see this journey with Jared ransom every day because of the work she does, and what she brings back to the nonprofit show so Jeffrey it's really been an exciting thing to to watch your concept and this really special part of our sector grow. Again, I'm Julia Patrick, CEO of the American nonprofit Academy, been joined today by the nonprofit nerd herself, Jared R ransom. Again, we have amazing sponsors who are with us on this journey called the nonprofit show. They include Bloomerang American nonprofit Academy, your part time controller nonprofit thought leader fundraising Academy at National University staffing boutique nonprofit nerd and nonprofit tech talk. Hey, Jeffrey, Jared, we're going to see you at this amazing summit. That's going to kick off many more summits. And we are thrilled that you could be with us today to talk about this. Thank you so much Jeffrey. Good to see you. Hey everybody, as we end every episode of the nonprofit show, we end with this mantra and it goes like this to stay well so you can do well. Thank you everybody. We'll see you back here tomorrow.


What about cashing in some of your holidays for money? Well, I don't have huge objections to that, as long as the decision has freely arrived at by the worker and the worker is not pressured to do it. If you've got that safe garden, then if somebody chooses to do that, then I'm quite relaxed about it. You stated that you were relaxed about selling or the government's plans to allow workers to sell the fourth week of their holidays. You don't stand by that anymore, do you? No, what I said is that of a range of things... Let's talk about being able to sell the fourth week. No, listen to what I'm saying, Paul. Paul, listen to what I'm saying. I know what you're going to say. I'm saying that we are not in favour of trading. Are you for it or against it? Are you for it or against it at the moment? Yes or no? We are against it. You? We are against it. You know, we are now against it. We were quite relaxed. The word relaxed you. No, we are against it now. Don't get an issue out of something that's not there. I've never tripped up. I've never tripped up. I've never tripped up. I've never tripped up. I've never tripped up.