What's up everybody? It's mine pump time today's episode. It's a lot of fun. We actually interviewed Archie Gibbs He's one of the producers for a Wall Street That's that reality show on HBO Max with Mark Wahlberg, but he's done a lot of other stuff as well You're gonna love this episode. Oh the giveaway. That's right. We give away stuff every single time We drop an episode here on YouTube today. We're giving away free access to maps and Ebola Here's how you can win Make sure you leave a comment in the first 24 hours that we drop this episode If we pick your comment as the best comment, you'll get free access to maps and Ebola But you also have to subscribe to this channel and turn on your notifications Do those things one more thing We are running a sale right now on some of our most popular workout programs Maps aesthetics 50% off and our extreme fitness bundle, which is multiple programs put together Is also 50% off you can find those at maps fitness products calm just use the code may special For the discount. All right. Enjoy this interview. Oh, I can't wait to talk to you about all the all the different companies I know that Mark is running alongside with you, but municipal. I know a clothing line I've tried to start three different clothing lines in my that's a rough one lifetime And that's such a headache business and I was curious to how that how that's going Well, I mean, it's from the show. It's the only You know thing business that mark has that you could just go online and you know buy something In that regard like from the show and it's it's actually crushing right now. Oh, wow Ridiculous.  It's really comfortable stuff, too So it's probably because the show right people watch the show so they go straight to it and get it Yeah, I don't know if you didn't see municipal. This is probably too dark Anyway, we actually we were actually speculating off air after we were talking about that show Which was a great documentary by the way That that business would actually be the one that would be struggling the most and we thought what you do with mark Was probably the best business idea of all the ideas that he had because I felt like one I mean you guys had incredible success with McMillian's and I just feel like that's more of his wheelhouse and you guys I thought of all the the partnerships he's got going on. We thought that you guys made the best team Well, I appreciate that and obviously I feel the same way. I mean, you know That's why I was so tremendously honored when mark wanted to be in business with me because he's his life blood He's known as an actor and a producer, right? That's how he made his his fame and fortune So the fact that he's willing to get into business with me in that same field was a tremendous compliment to me And we have a lot of great stuff going on. So But it's a grind. I'll tell you man. It's it's the most The entertainment industry is so competitive nowadays And you think because you know, there's so many streamers and plays content is always in demand, but it's still a really Doggy dog world out there and in this in this industry Yeah, it seems like it's changing a lot too from, you know, Hollywood is going over into the streaming streaming is the biggest Interest these days and also like it seems like a lot of people are trying to get Insight into a lot of these these Hollywood stars lives and what they do and how that all like plays out and it was I think that was what was so Fascinating about, you know, that whole documentary you guys just did Yeah, I mean it's look The great thing about it is mark, you know, I've worked on wall burgers with mark Which of course was on A&E that's just focused really on The wall burgers restaurants, but it was more of like a family sitcom in a way, you know And it dealt with the it dealt with wall burgers, but it was much more light hearted and mark was like I mean he was the one he came after we wrapped that and we started on realist ideas is like Archie the next show I want to do is Wall Street. He had the name. He had everything all set and It was really kind of figuring out what this what the style and tone would be is what we worked on But he always wanted to be able to show viewers Exactly, you know what went into all of his businesses and the hard work and it's like it's no joke as you As you guys see, I mean that guy grinds and it's just the most incredible work ethic that I've ever seen in my life Talk about that though Archie. What is it like to take like a true story like reality? Like what you got what you're talking about right now and and tell it in a way as a story Like what is that the process look like he comes to you? Hey, let's do Wall Street and then from there I would think that it's kind of a handoff to you like okay now How do I piece this together and make it entertaining? Yeah, that's exactly right and then you know, I I've worked in the industry as a showrunner and you know creative for many many years So I had very specific ideas that I bounced by mark and it was like hey What if we use movie clips from you know and and use them in a way where it kind of gives insight into what you're thinking So in giving you some levity to some scenes like yeah, that's cool And what about that we 11 I we're like we love the idea of having real CEOs I could give Inform viewers and inform mark like this is bit. This is sort of how you do business because the key is always that mark is a great business man But it's all instinct for him It's not like he would he never went to you know business school and we love the idea of having these Real executives that did go to business school And this is how things should run and juxtaposing that again with like mark and just how he does things and it's not always gonna Be right, but in the end, you know, hopefully mark's always gonna win it, you know went out But so we put together a team of people we hired an incredible Group a crew with an amazing DP Mike Pepin our showrunner Sarah Sibitski a Lot of creative people come in and we sort of work on the stories But it all comes down to what's really happening in Mark's life. This was not like I'll tell you back in the day. I worked on a lot of shows where it was much more soft scripted This is just like Mark's like I'm doing this turn the camera on and and let's see what happens, you know So we shot 400 hours of material basically For what was it? They're three three and three hours. I Mean that's insane editing you think about it Yeah, yeah explain a little down. Yeah explain a more detail what you mean by soft script So I you're back in the day. I worked on the show duck dynasty You know, I was just a one of the creative consultants I and I helped come up with story ideas and then they would They would kind of live those out. So But they're all organic to To what's really happening in the person's life. So for example When and with wall burgers are sort of the same thing so an episode of wall burgers Mark was going to Italy. He's filming a movie movie in Italy. So he's there. So like hey When you're in Italy He loves wine. It's like do you maybe want to go to a winery and and you know Maybe meet up with someone and do some business for wall burgers out of wineries. Yeah, that sounds great So it's it's soft script because you're putting you're creating a scene in the sense that We're gonna film this but once he gets there. It's not like their lines or anything. He says it just whatever happens happens, but It wasn't it's it's not like Mark organically. Excuse me was automatically gonna go to that vineyard But once you went there he kind of just did what he does does that make sense No, no totally so so when no makes total sense And so when you saw a script like that how often do you end up having to scratch it because it just doesn't play out The way you think it's gonna play out 99% of the time That's right need four hundred hours of film Yeah, yeah, exactly and this might be this kind of a selfish question because we have a media company So we're always trying to figure out how to tell a story Effectively and you know you say something like you know We shot four hundred hours of film and we brought it down to three There's I'm sure there's a structure like how do you See that because that's what makes you so good at what you do versus Somebody else that would just film everything and then try and piece it together. What does that structure look like? What are you looking for? Well, it's just it's tracking story That's really what it is. It's like you see characters like with Lisa Sedler, you know That was she was the woman who owns green zebra the healthy Grocery store in Portland area that they're just trying to expand She just was a great character and if you really when you met her when you meet her You're like she's really Dynamic and you were like let's track her. Let's follow her more and we kind of knew We kind of knew the characters that we were going to want to follow I did not think that I was gonna be one of the characters But it just so happened that in that regard the the crew when we were in the edit They were like Archie you have to be in this like you and Mark have such a real Relationship that comes across you have to be one of these characters that we're tracking in this and I was like, okay Well, you know so be it Which is very weird to be someone that's creating the content and then having to see yourself in it is Was very bizarre for me because in my entire career. I really never had that experience Now when you do that, are you tempted to like make yourself look, you know a certain way? Yeah Yeah, exactly. I will say the one thing is I did have them. I looked a little pasty in one of the interviews For the most part no I didn't I actually recused myself in some of the editing of that and I said guys I'm too close to this and it how you see fit. I'm not I can't because and they did You know and I made they did a great job I'll tell you what not to you know get this is not about me.  It really gets me emotional because it's just you know I have other dads reach out to me be like dude Like I really appreciate what you're doing with your kid and working hard. It was really cool. I've never experienced anything like that I'm not I'm no celebrity. I'm just a regular guy, you know, so it was cool to get that outreach and then of course the The outreach has been crazy on social media for you know people just loving Mark's work ethic really inspiring people and a Dozens of people have ever you know, I went to business school, but I learned more watching Wall Street Then then I learned in business school and that's just like really very powerful Things that people are saying that I again, none of us really expected We all knew that it was me interesting to follow Mark's life But we never thought to that degree that it was you know from a business aspect that it was really Really inspiring people in tremendous ways, you know due to the nature of social media and how quickly people can give you feedback Like you said with DMs does that help drive new potential stories? For example, you talked about so many dads that we're talking about how great it was to see a hard-working dad That's also dedicated to his kids. Does something like that kind of spark your imagination say, huh? I wonder if a story that revolved around, you know a well-known, you know Celebrity dad and what it's like to raise kids and stuff like that Yeah, that's called the focus group. You're exactly right. You're just taking you're taking that information and you're you're you know That that's 100% correct and the timeliness of when it airs It's or you've already made your editing decisions, but in future seasons if we're to get Wall Street to come back And we're hopeful that we'll get a season to nothing is set yet But you know in that we would we would probably entertain some of those stories that we know that really Resonated with viewers for sure. Can we talk a little bit about the the financials of what that looks like, right?  What's that like the business model is Very less sexy than people would think when it comes to limited Documentary series like Wall Street if you want to make big bucks, you're making like survivor You're making the amazing race those are their highly repeatable formats that you crank out you do 20 a year You know 12 to 20 a year they're on for 15 year seasons Those are you know cha-ching That the more you know we put a lot of money that what you see on film That's like high quality camera like the best cameras in the business the best DPs in the business amazing editors amazing, you know crew So when from a from a dollar standpoint, it's really not a windfall of money to us But it's really just about building up our brand and saying hey unrealistic ideas creates Amazing premium content that's great to look at their great stories And that to us is like sort of where we see the value so that we could continue to build and grow and sell more And more shows and then it becomes more of a numbers game of having selling multiple multiple projects So are you saying like a docu-series like McMillian's which was one of my favorite documentaries? That doesn't produce a ton of money even as amazing as it was and as viral as it went Yeah, short answer is no it doesn't it doesn't produce a ton of money It does open up other avenues revenue potentially where like we could turn McMillian's into a scripted project You can make ancillary ways to flip it to other things. We did a podcast from it I mean look don't get me wrong. There was there's some money made, but it's definitely not I mean especially in the scripted world the amount of money that you make in scripted TV and film like Dwarfs what you make in the non-scripted space. That's interesting So when you guys did Wall Street was part of the the strategy to Use it to also spin off and maybe boost some of these businesses that are highlighted for example We talked about Municipal and how it's an online business and obviously it makes sense people watch the show Boom they can go online buy the the clothes right away. Is that part of the strategy like okay? It's gonna maybe make this much money, but it's also gonna allow us to like a marketing vessel Yeah highlight some of these businesses that we're doing together Well, yeah, I mean look Mark's got on the record that he said he did wall burgers because he wanted to promote Wall burgers the restaurant chain right through that he was able to build up that brand so Yes, that is that is definitely a consideration again It doesn't we as the creatives and you know mark separate like we We kind of look past all that and it's like look we're not creating a commercial here We want to do some that's highly entertaining These are not puff pieces for these brands that Mark's own the mark owns But yes, of course, it's it's natural branded integration right people are seeing these things They see mark wearing something municipal gear like oh that looks cool. I'm gonna check it out and buy my own So that is inherent to it. I don't think it. Yeah, there is a degree. I don't think it felt that way at all No, I did such a phenomenal fact I remember seeing it a couple times being recommended to me on HBO I passed on I didn't watch it and then I finally clicked on an episode and what hooked me was the fact that you guys Went so deep into the behind the scenes of the business and it and even though you did that It didn't feel like you were selling me on the business It felt like I was really getting to peer in and see what it's like to make the decisions that marks making on a daily basis Yeah, it's kind of funny because you know, my brother doesn't really have any idea We're entrepreneurs all of us in here ourselves and you know I've always tried to kind of explain what I do on a daily basis And he actually like stumbled upon Wall Street and was like oh wow He was getting an insight as to what you know that might actually look like in terms of closing deals in terms of the Hard conversations and there was a lot of hard conversations in Wall Street that I think were great Yeah, speaking of which as you guys are doing this pandemic hits and it I mean that must that's a I mean talk about a wrench right in the Machinery was there any were there any discussions where you're like, okay? We might need to to stop this or was it like okay? This actually is a nice twist and let's keep going. I Wish you were a producer at HBO Max I'll tell you why we we had these great. We were documenting How were we gonna make this show and reading you know to HBO Max credit they made some great decisions, but we We were tracking that. How are we going to make this show? We and we were filming our zoom meetings of the production company where like how do we get it? You know, it's not you know Remember the first day of the pandemic people didn't know and knew anything so it took a good two months before We could sort of figure out a game plan that was safe There was there was a you know a COVID protocol as far as wearing masks social distancing So essentially one of our producers who is a friend of Mark's as well Would you know which can mark was comfortable enough? They have him around because they're in the same sort of bubble He would just go over with his iPhone and film stuff and that's how we started started tracking so if you notice if You're really like breaking down Wall Street the first few episodes are shot beautifully on a mirror cameras like these are the best cameras in the business and then all the sudden digress is to iPhone footage and zoom footage because that's really all we could do to capture it for a while And then it goes back to really once things eased up and we could get the crew in there safely and people getting tested We started getting more of the nicer shot the stuff that was shot But yes to your point it was a huge undertaking That's part of all the stuff that we cut you never saw was That behind the scenes of our company how are we going to produce the show how we physically going to produce it? And I would have loved to have had it in there, but it just you know It's just there's only so much you could put into this stuff Yeah Now the beauty is when it switches to iPhone and to that kind of zoom it actually it feels more real right? Especially since all of us kind of went through that whole situation How important is it to have I guess and what you do? I would imagine being a positive You know solution based type of person that's got to be like a huge component to being successful at what you do because of So many things getting thrown at you all the time Your guess and awesome questions by the way, I must say no. Yeah, I That's literally how I get paid I am When when you have something that happens on a set and people are freaking out Oh my god, we're supposed to shoot this at this pizza location.  We can't do anything. It's like we're not screwed. Let's think for a second. Okay What is this and it's all comes back to story? What are we trying to do here? What is this scene about mark is meeting with this pizza guy? Blah blah I'm making this up, but you know marks to meet me with this pizzeria is gonna start a pizza company now Well, does it really have to be a pizzeria? What if we shoot this the essence of it really is that mark is convincing this guy that he should go into the hamburger business Again, I'm making this all up But just for the sake of this conversation You have to pivot on every every single time you're filling something in Nonsense the non-scripted world things are falling apart and you have to be a creative You know problem solver and on the spot make decisions because time is money And there's literally a crew of like 15 20 people waiting for you to make a decision of what do we do next? You know Archie You know here at what we do we just incorporated a Improv instructor to help us develop that skill. I mean are we doing the right thing? Does does that kind of training help with that on-the-fly kind of thinking like okay? What next what do I do from here?  So yes is the answer to that It's always yes and is the way that you went in the improv world That's how it goes and there's no there's no point in in freaking out And that another key thing is to keep just keep your calm And that's something that I pride myself to it as as a As an owner of this company right as one of the partners of this company is I never yell I never raised my voice at any of my employees.  You didn't sell something. He's just like come on man We've got we got one more in us, you know So that that helps and I try to again as an example to my team. I always try to Get people to sort of you know work as hard as they can work as smart as they can now arch Have you always been this guy now you for the listeners that you've been an og in this space for a long time And you've done a lot of projects One of the things that we talked about we've been trainers for two decades and we always share these you know Paradigm shattering moments in our career that really evolved us as trainers and coaches What about you and in your career? There've been like very pivotal moments that changed your character or how you did your your craft Yes, definitely I Actually before I I was I was a pretty outgoing guy and then I kind of like in my 20s I came a little shy and so I just went on this crazy road trip by myself to kind of Reinvent who I am and figure out who I wanted to be and that kind of shaped the person. I am today And so that was a very pivotal moment in my life, but also then coming to Los Angeles and understanding Sort of I went to NYU for for graduate school for film and my professor who is an amazing my mentor Lorenzo Semple junior who's passed away, but he was an incredible screenwriter and He basically said to me You have to move to Los Angeles if you really want to make it in this industry Beca and a lot of people that live in New York don't want to hear that because New York's and I love New York I'm a you know, I'm in New York, or I love it, but you need to be around creative people that You literally walk down the street you go to a house party you go to a restaurant and you're meeting other directors other writers other actors and That creative space you you cannot replicate Unfortunately, you can make it anywhere. You literally can you just have to work that much harder and My first job that I got out here. I was at a party a house party I was wearing a Mets hat big Mets guy and jets as you can see the mark loves to give it to me about being a Jets fan and And I was at a part wearing a Mets hat and some guy comes up to me He's like, hey, you're a Mets fan.  I'm actually leaving. I got a new job You sound really cool. You want me to put you up for this position?  I got an interview when I got the job was that blind so that was that blind day? Nice yeah I found out you're responsible for the bubbles, right? Those those top bubbles that were above the guys. Yeah, that was the best part. Yeah, that that was amazing. Thank you Well, I have a hilarious story about About this, I don't know, you know, but I was at it. So when you want can I digress? Oh, absolutely, please do. Okay, so I was out at a bar and When you are doing blind date those dates last like seven hours the actual raw date is like a seven-hour date And you cut it down to six minutes and then you write thought bubbles to it like I would write, you know, literally like come up with creative idea and so one of the I'm out at a bar and because you spend so much time editing these things The people when you see them out and about you're like, how do I know that person you cuz you do so many of them We can't remember and I'm like, did I go to like high school with that guy? Did I how do I know him? He's like my brother's friend. Whatever.  We're having a great time and And I'm like, how do I know you was like, dude, you don't know me. I'm telling you I know you from somewhere. We started listing off all these people Do you know that finally hit me like a ton of bricks?  I now I know how I know who you are and he goes What what I'm like, you were on blind date an episode that I wrote And I just gets up and he's big guy.  What a great story. What's what's what are you most proud of in in your projects? What which one is the one that you're mo that you look back and you go, okay That's the one I think that's that I'm most proud of I Will tell you this It was well McMillian's is just a tremendous success but you know, I we obviously had a tremendous amount of you know, the creative and but I really Brian, Liz Arte and James Hernandez who the directors on that were just they're fantastic So I kind of don't take that as my own win because those guys put so much of their blood sweat and tears into it Even though I'm extremely proud of that and what I what I gave to that project I would say it's a non-scripted product. Excuse me. It's a scripted project I did which was called Chloe and Keith's wedding where I had a Video that I created purposely that I said I told people I'm like I'm gonna create a video and it's gonna go viral And people like you're out of your mind You can't just do that and I created a video that has over 100 million views Wow, which is insane and it was uh, it's I don't know if you guys remember this but It was I guess like 2009 2010 just really the internet was sort of getting going and viral was just becoming something I did a video about a bride who gets knocked into a pool By the best man trips and knocks into a pool her and the priest get knocked into a pool And it was everywhere. It was on the today's show. It was on ellen. Good morning america Went viral. Um, it's in it's been in tv commercials coca-cola commercials.  I've seen that video a million times in different places So that's that wasn't an actual wedding where she it was oh, wow, I had no idea I I I actually made that that is a completely staged event In fact, if you go to wikipedia and you look up the word hoax One of the definitions is that clip from my movie as like this is what a hoax Wow, I had no idea. How did you how did you call your shot? How did you know that you could make something that was going to go viral? Did you did you think you had the formula down? I mean what what made you call the shot? Yes, I did The formula was and I did two videos for this movie by the way This this thing one was with a pet because people love their pets silly pet videos and the other was People love wedding mishaps. They love things that happen with weddings and people slipping up.  And so we had we had actually we rented two identical wedding dresses So she got it.  We got her to the you know, the fresh gown We did it take two take two. She nailed it Beauty put it up online I thought I put it online Thinking I'd get like 10,000 views And within the day it had a million views. It was on the home page of AOL. This is dating. They're not being dated But AOL yahoo home page like it was it it blew up to such a crazy magnitude that I never anticipated Wow, well, I mean it looks again until actually right now archie. I thought that was a real wedding I didn't know idea that was that was scripted. So that's got to be part of that that formula You know earlier you mentioned the the how competitive The spaces and you mentioned streaming and obviously now we have Social media and you know, I guess the the good of that is that the barrier to enter is so much smaller Anybody can produce a video but the the challenge now is so much more competition What are the like how much has changed in terms of being successful today with all these new I guess media, you know methods of delivering media versus the old, you know way where you just had tv movie and that was it Yeah, I mean you're you're exactly right. It's so it's so much more competitive because literally anyone you know an 18 year old kid in You know, Kansas can create something amazing put on the internet and a week later He could get a disney plus deal. You know, I mean there really is The the entry into this industry now is is is so low but again, you really have to stand out you have to make amazing content and Look it all comes down to experience in my opinion And you know, we've done this for a long time mark, of course and and lev are absolute rock stars in the in the industry for decades I am have a lot of experience in the non-scripted space. So You know, that's why great ideas could come from anyone in our production company, you know, we get hit up all the time Uh about pitching ideas or documentaries and we're open to them You know, we listen to them And if there's a great idea that could come from anywhere. So and we'll partner with people What do you think the percentage is of of those ideas that get pitched to you that you take versus ones you're out seeking? Uh, it's very slim. It's so it does pitch us and and we go for it The thing it's amazing is before the pandemic, you know, I was traveling a ton and I will be traveling again soon Um, but I would take ubers or lifts a lot of places and I would just like to chat with the driver and say Hey, I know you're just not like a lift driver. What else are uber driver?  I have a production company and They would it's oh my gosh like I have a screenplay. Can I give it to you? I'm like sure And I give him my I give my I give my business card with that has my personal Email address on like here it is when it's ready to send it. I'm going to give you one shot Don't please don't send it to me and be like a work in progress because it doesn't help me But if it's ready to go Send it to me and I'll see what I could do I did that about a hundred times. I've done that over the last several years How how many people do you think? Actually emailed me. Oh, wow. Don't tell me none zero two How many one person wow, you know, that's like uh as trainers we we figured this trick out a long time ago Obviously once everybody in your family and friends find out that you you train people They want to ask you a million questions About nutrition and exercise and so I I learned this hack like halfway through of Weeding out all the people that aren't serious and say, okay What I need from you first is for one week I need you to track everything you eat then bring it to me and I'll help you And I I can give you the same stat back of guess how many people Exactly. Wow 100% and you know, I would love to get tips from you guy, but I get a lot from my friend mark walburs There's actually a hilarious This is we so tom dowd who does performance inspired. He's in wall street as well as one of the characters mark wanted him to lose 30 pounds in in three months and I was supposed to gain 15 pounds In three months and we had a competition and it was a hefty amount of money that we bet and Literally, I gained 15 pounds And it was the day of that the lockdown happened And we had to cancel the bet because it was like for fairness reasons whatever And and we were that was actually part of wall street. We had some of that as being tracked as well um, so that's just another so I My uh, oh people always ask me like all right because i'm a slender guy and mark is like come on like he wants me to get ripped He's like you got the perfect frame for it. And I had many I I know you guys know mark's training method all too well Um, you know waking up at three in the morning working out four am, you know, these are the three am workout club or the four am workout club I was a two am workout club because I have to wake up at two To go to mark's house to fill him So speaking of which I have a question for I don't know if you know the answer to this But uh, I noticed that every time mark works out. He wears what looked like bicycle gloves They look like a long finger. What's up with that? Do you know why he does that? Is that just the ritual thing for him? Yeah, I think his hands got his hands are really, you know, you know He his his one of his fingers through like when he was one of his movies He was doing a I guess must have been the fighter and he like dislocated his finger a bit um So I think he just does it now. It's just um, almost like a ritual, you know for And getting the calluses and stuff. I'm not 100% sure But I think it's because it's just is used to it at this point You know archie we talked about the the project that you were most proud of is there is there a project that you're you're least proud of or Is it how often does it happen where you start something and you scratch it halfway through? Well, look, I mean Yeah, there's definitely you there's we developed so in our with our company We've been around now for three years I would say we've internally developed 600 ideas wow of which have sold Or 60 let's call it 60 have sold and of that 10 of them have actually made it to air So it's really a weeding out process. So there's just been so many things. I wouldn't say I'm not proud like for example like Blind date like some people would be like, you know, oh my god. That's like, you know such a Cheesy show but people like dude. I love that show. It's my guilty pleasure. So beauty is really in the eye of the beholder You know, like I said, I worked on duck dynasty people love that show. Some people think it's corny and they hate it Um, the shows that I've done that I've made it to air. I'm pretty proud with all of them There, you know, I've worked on some pretty cool shows too. Like I did, you know two of the projects I'm really proud of two or the Justin Bieber feature film and the Katy Perry feature film both were paramount pictures and released both of those um, and I Had a really a big part in making those films what they were so i'm really proud of that It's a really cool, you know, but the whole industry it's really collaborative, you know, and it's really important that I I never want to um Take credit for things wholly because it's such a team, you know thing and Really, one of the things that drove me as an entrepreneur to start my own company Was I was tired of like owners of some of the places that I work just not giving me any credit for things And i'm not even talking about like You know, even just like uh, hey, let me take you out to dinner because you did a great job. It's just like and so I try to publicly that's why I even said at the beginning of this podcast I was trying to give some shout outs to some of the people that worked on wall street And there's dozens of people, you know Because it's it's not just me it's obviously if centers are on mark There's a team of people that put this together and I think it's really important that uh That you acknowledge those people is there is there a lot of uh shadiness and politics in your space? um When you say shadiness into what degree I mean just people I mean people stealing credit or not giving credit where it's due or people I don't know your ideas and running with another company. I think I will say this not to name any names I think there are a lot of people In this industry that are either they own companies that they take credit for things For people underneath them that are doing the hard work And a lot of directors in this in this space You know might be across multiple projects and there are people working under them That really don't get the credit that they should I am a huge fan of editors. I love editors I try to our company prides ourselves on trying to elevate editors into becoming directors because we feel like they're the lifeblood of the Documentary space, you know those guys and gals are in the edit bay Shaping stories and stuff and a lot of times that they are really Not given the love that they deserve people just see a documentary like that director was awesome The first thing I look at is who edited it. That's literally the first person I always look at and I want to be in business with those people You had you had talked about selling uh, some of these ideas where you were talking about the weeding out process What is the process of selling? Let's say you get an idea. You put it together Now you got to go sell it. That's a whole nother monster. What does that look like? Yeah, and you said something about selling and not airing. I didn't what's the difference I didn't understand what if you could sell something, but then not air. What does that look like? Oh, yeah, first of all, it's treacherous. It's not to the faint of heart. I mean Rejection is a daily daily thing. You're getting rejected.  So what will happen is let's say we come up with a great idea Well that this is awesome RV there yet was a perfect example if you remember wall street Towards the end we were pitching the show called RV there yet So that was about um marks. It was it was think of like the amazing race But in RVs across the united states with families where you had a list of things you had to do with your family It was like a scavenger hunt.  Uh, cutro. Who's our amazing editor? Um He he's on our team So he he cut the video and then we put together a deck which explains exactly what the show is with episodes Look like so these and this usually takes weeks if not months to put this material together Then you go and you pitch it you have you identify certain buyers you think oh, I can't I think You know hbo or netflix or discovery plus or hulu or whatever like who are the the networks the streamers The buyers that are going to want this and then you go out and pitch it And now because of the pandemic all of the pitches are over zoom It used to be you go into their offices and you schmooze and then you pitch Which has made the entire pitching process very different and much more difficult Way harder to read the room when you're in a zoom than if you're sitting next to someone Um, so yeah, so to to to finish up this very long way to answer your question. Um At that point they would be like we love the idea We're not 100% sure if we want to go to series with it But we'll give you a chunk of money to create a presentation or a pilot And if we like it we really love that then we'll buy and then we'll air it and we'll go to series So that's what I mean. You could sell something The and and they're gonna buy it, but then it doesn't make it to air Now it doesn't make it to air now. Who's the who's the closer for your For your team are you the one that goes because I know that there's people that are good at putting things together But then there's also good people that are good at selling The idea is that you are you the one that also goes and sells it? Or do you have other people that are good at selling the ideas that you have go do this for you? Well, the ultimate closers mark wallberg But uh and mark does appear, you know Sometimes he's able to be part of the pitch pitch process and projects that make sense to him You know to be a part of but yeah, I'm on that team. We have an amazing development team. Liza kekler is our head of development Lauren VC is our director of development. They're both awesome in pitches incredibly dynamic, uh, women Prince Vaughn is also part of our development team. He's awesome in casting and he's a part of some of those pitches as well But yeah, it really depends on the project if it's a if it's a documentary And Dave David Wendell as well. I can't leave him out. He's also is one of my dearest friends He's a part of our development team So depending on the project if it's like a format which is um more like again a formatted series like again the amazing race or uh The uh survivor something that is a competition show Lauren and and and Liza specifically are experts in that so they'll be forward in those pitches I might come on too But really I'm more on the pitches for the documentary series the premium doc space Like the mcmillions the wall street those type of shows Dave and I are are overseeing those now this this question might Put you in a little bit of an awkward position, but I got to ask it um Working with all these you you know hbo hulu netflix and you're pitching all these ideas Are there certain companies that are that are notorious for being assholes and other ones that are like great to work with There are certain ones that everybody's like, uh, man We're going to go pitch the we know what a pain in the ass they are or certain companies that you're like Man, if we hit with them, they're so great to work with Are you saying on the buyer side or other production on the buyer side?  I got nothing below Not all kidding aside though There are a lot of amazing buyers out there, but there are a few I would I would be lying if I didn't say there are a few places that you just are like It's not worth it And and we don't pitch those places to be honest with you because It's just very a very frustrating process with with with with the select few Now is that because some of these buyers are just shrewd and they're about themselves and trying to angle down on money Why is or I mean what makes what makes one an asshole to work with or paying the ass? Uh, one of the things is you know the expectation. So it's like hey, here you go. Here's $30,000 to make a sizzle and we need you to fly to brazil to shoot this thing and we want it to look incredible Which is basically they're saying we expect you to you know Take $100,000 out of your pocket to make sure that this thing looks good So some of that is some of the expectations Are not fair in my opinion. They might think it's fair But i'm like it's it's really not fair because the outlay of if you're really if they're really into it And they really earnestly want to put the money behind it And they're not they're short change it that kind of makes it tough But it's also just not seeing eye to eye. There's some people again I'm not I'm not I don't want to speak poorly of people in general But there's some people that really are creatives that are in this space that are really great And there's some people in this industry that don't have the experience creatively they literally have never They literally have never been a part of a production and physically made a production Um, they just kind of have made their way up through the ranks in different ways And now that they're in a power position of power where they're talking creatively to you About things and you when you have these conversations. It's very clear from the get-go You know this person is it's not clear, but what really goes into this and it becomes frustrating You know speaking of of creative obviously you work with mark and he's a good friend of yours But you mentioned katie parry and and justin beaver Um, are there specific types of challenges working with those types of people because I can imagine that they all I mean They're all so creative That they probably have similar personalities. I mean, this is my you know my guess Are there particular challenges with working with people like that? Yeah, for sure. I mean definitely not with mark.  I mean mark is literally one of the most down-earth guys You'll ever meet like I'm shocked that he's an international celebrity the the way that he treats people is insanely just down to earth You know, I've seen him especially like the the blue collar guys Like when we're if mark, you know goes golfing He's talking to like the caddies and the greens guys and he's not really hobnobbing with other. He's such a down-earth guy Um, so he's like Removing him from this whole thing, you know, every everyone's different There's certain people that are really down to earth and cool celebrities and the others that are much more difficult Um, you know, katie was a very intense Person she was brilliant. She literally when we were editing that that film She came in and sat into the editing bay and was like working side by side with the editors So she really was invested in that film and brought um clearly it was about her So she brought everything to it, but she really brought a lot creativity to creativity to the edit itself. Um, but We that's also the really cool thing. Which is I I feel so blessed and Really happy that I'm in mark's universe because we get to I get to meet so many cool people we're doing so many cool projects with Athletes and celebrities and again not all these shows are going to potentially go So I can't really drop names or anything but for the most part all these guys and gals are like really I mean clearly a meeting of through mark. So there's that that whole thing where like there's the uh That that you know them coming to me from that angle where they're they're going to be nicer to me but for the most part A lot of these folks are really cool down earth people and there's a few that are are more demanding and difficult but Speaking about other projects. What uh, are we going to see something with the the the priest?  I'm going to I'm going to pitch food network that one. Um Yeah, uh, yeah, we are we're development. He is an incredible The guy is just I Off the charts at how how We have very spirited conversations at the father and I and he's opened my eyes up to a lot of stuff financially first of all the guy is just Uh brilliant when it comes to to analyzing financial statements the guy's literally it's like what is it? Uh, the A beautiful mind like that sort of thing, you know He just is is is incredible with with that dissecting it and really being able to analyze Uh companies and stocks and so forth. So yeah, we're we're excited about that one. It's um It's been a little bit tricky again because of the pandemic and he's based in the east coast and so Trying to do some of that now. We're easing out of it. It's gonna be much much easier coming into the summer We're gonna sort of ramp up that project. No, he's an interesting character One of my favorite parts actually of the the series was when he he breaks down, uh, the the zebra business, man And just totally love it just rips it apart and you just don't see that coming from a father like that I thought that was so good Oh and that was edited down because He is You know when mark goes, you know, I you didn't need to be machine gun kelly, you know Like he he he's like and he says like it doesn't say anywhere the bible you have to be nice.   He's a really unique character, you know, which again, this is what these things come down I mean you think about it guys It's the characters in our lives that make these things. So that's why, you know, the father stands out so much It's why in mcmillions dug matthew's that FBI agent I mean that guy is so like that was the one note that I kept giving more dug more dug more dug because These these are the things that really take Stories and put them over the top or the storytellers that are telling you the stories Yeah, if there's any, you know aspiring producers watching this do you have any any, you know tips or how about this common mistakes Where's some common mistakes that new producers tend to make? They come great question again, you're you're killing it here they A lot of times producers will come To us with an idea That is either not fully baked or more importantly It doesn't they're bringing no skin to the game and what I mean by that is Let's just say They they say hey, I've got a great idea. There's you know, uh, I'm completely making this up by the way Okay, but say there's an ice hockey team. That's all women in in minneapolis and they're uh, You know, they're great characters and and we I want to do the show with you. Okay, cool Have you engaged with them? No, no, no, no, no You guys could do all that but I know of them I've identified them and you guys could get them as like no you have to bring value You need to go you need to bring me You know videotape them get you know iphone zoom Show me the characters put together a little bit of a sizzle or a casting tape And present something so you come into this With us with a value if you don't have Access you need to have exclusive access So the first thing they need to do is they need to go to that the coach of the hockey team or whatever Again, this is all hypothetical and go.  Is it all purely creative like what what really drives you to continue doing what you do? It's an amazing question that I It's definitely not money I'll tell you that I I I feel very blessed to have a very nice home. I mean it's mod. It's not a mansion. It's nothing crazy I'm a beautiful family It's really just being i'm passionate about creating projects that people Relate to I mean again not to break my and patting myself on the back but if you look at my My resume i've been a part of a lot of really cool non-scripted shows And I will say i'm my passion now work with marcus to get more involved in scripted material too Because I have a deep love and passion for scripted I mean, of course, I want to make money, but it does not drive me in the least it does not drive me what it's really The thing that really makes my day is like when you guys Say hey, I watched wall street.  It's tough man life is tough and especially now with the pandemic if I could in some small way create some Bit of content that's going to take people's minds off of that and and let them enjoy life and learn from it That to me inspires me and motivates me to create and I also I don't know where how I was hard wired to with my drive. It's mark is the youngest of nine kids So I know and I know his family very well. I literally am friends with friendly with all of his brothers And he is so motivated to succeed because he was the youngest of nine and his motor is running Because it's like I got it. I got to compete with my brothers now. It's not that anymore He's not compete with his brothers anymore, but he's found other people to kind of internally You know motivate him and I you know, I had five people, you know kids in our my family as well And so I had that competitive spirit with my siblings So I think there's something of that in that too with me, but um I don't know. It's hard to say.  I will I will sell this I promise. I mean, there's smart guys. They don't do it. I just and I for the life of me. I'm like What's going on? Like I'm not wired that way. I cannot for the life of me understand How someone can't be like excited and and driven to like Do things in life and feel good about like creating things. It's just I don't I don't understand Yeah, no, I appreciate that answer and one more question, you know We mentioned dads and we mentioned how that's that really strikes a it seems to resonate with a lot of people Balancing being a father and balancing the drive that you have to do what you do because what you do is I mean, it's a lot of work oftentimes. I'm sure you're not home. You're in other places like How do you balance those two out? What does that look like? It's raw. I mean during the pandemic which you got a little glimpse of in wall street I mean it is it's impossible when the kids were at home I my wife and I my wife god bless her She is a full-time lawyer at a very big movie studio out here in los angeles She's one of the head lawyers in the in in the film department and so we're both working from home and we had our two a five-year-old and a two-year-old and We had to have like break things up or like we had classes So we we each took half hour shifts Where it'd be like we'd have a drawing class and we'd have a dance class for our kids because we had no There's no nanny here. There's no other people. I'm not like, you know It was just my wife and I so we had to divide our day from doing our jobs And again, I don't want to sound because to me it's not work my I I love what I do. So when I go wake up in the morning I'm like I'm living life and that just so happens my life is my kids and my wife and my work so I think really the one place where I I Is a very important in hollywood, especially post pandemic is The schmooze like you go out for drinks you go out for dinner That's where a lot of business gets done in hollywood And I will not go out for drinks or dinner until my kids are asleep So normally people go out from six o'clock to eight o'clock is like happy hour dinners, whatever I've told my you know my assistant knows and and my team knows like from six to nine I am home with my family. I'm having dinner. I'm I'm reading stories of my kids. We're playing I'm talking them into bed. What have you and then I'll go out for late night drinks If if people want to meet nine to eleven to midnight, whatever I burn the midnight oil You know, that's one of that's the thing like markets is goes to bed at seven You know to get up for his workouts. I go to bed at two thirty in the morning You know, that's that's where my grind is late at night because I got so much stuff to go through Again, I don't want to sound like I'm like, you know talking up my life here But it's a grind like you've got to make those sacrifices for me. The sacrifices To be with my family I got to work late hours to catch up on watching, you know, I got tons of things I got to watch I got emails to return and that sweet spot for me is like Eleven to like one one thirty in the morning Well, Archie, we appreciate what you do and thank you very much for coming on the show. This was a lot of fun. It was great I appreciate it guys. Thanks for having me and uh, let's keep in touch and uh, let's uh, you know Good luck with everything you're doing Self image is am I a person worthy of being taken care of?  I have some good qualities to me I'm not a bad person body image is Just objective. I look in the mirror. I'm short. I'm tall.


We're now going to be transitioning into recapping the NFL draft that happened this past week. And to help us out with all of that, we've got time to football's own film analyst, Jordan Thomas. Jordan, how you doing, my man? Man, I'm doing great. Just had the draft, got to see all these great players come off the board that we've been looking at for the last two or three months here, really analyzing since last year's football, college football season ended. So just ready to jump into it. Yeah, this past draft, it was a lot of surprises that happened, a lot of players that were taken in later rounds. And we expected a lot of teams overdrafted for some players as well. But we want to talk about those players that were the best values for those NFL teams. And we want to talk about those biggest draft steals that happened this past week. Who are some big draft steals from the NFL draft? I think first we have to start with Jeremiah Owotun-Koramoa. Went in the second round to the Browns with a 52nd pick. This guy was an All-American last year playing in the ACC against guys like Trevor Lawrence and playing against North Carolina in that high-powered offense as well. And he really dominated there. He was an ACC defensive player of the year, plays sideline and sideline, will cover all positions, whether that's tight end slot receivers, running backs. I think it just doesn't make sense for how he was passed up on when in reality, he's not that big of a difference from the skill set from Micah Parsons. Micah Parsons went number 12 to the Cowboys and Owotun-Koramoa went 40 picks later. I don't think the talent gap is that large when it comes to these two linebackers. That's crazy to think. 40 picks later. Yeah, he definitely was a big steal, especially for someone that read a lot of mock drafts. You saw that a lot of people like Daniel Jeremiah and Mel Kuiper had them ranked in that 15 to 20 range as far as not just linebackers, but best players overall. Do you know why he just fell so late to the Browns? It's a great question. One thing that jumps out to me is when we're talking about Micah Parsons, he's 6'3 around 245. When you look at Owotun-Koramoa, he's more along 6'1, 2'20. So he's given up about 25 pounds and teams might see him as more of a tweener. And granted, he will come and hit you. He lays the wood in the running game, but it's a it's a robber position. I'm looking for that term. He fits between safety in a linebacker and more of the robber there. And they might not see him as a true linebacker for Owotun-Koramoa. I think that's why a lot of teams passed up on him. Yeah, I mean, makes a lot of sense for some NFL teams and not really fitting the needs that they have. So Owotun-Koramoa is your biggest draft steal, your first one at least on your list. Who's another one? So I've got two safeties that I want to talk about. First is Andre Cisco. Went to Syracuse, had his season cut short last year due to a torn ACL, but this guy led the FBS interceptions during his freshman year with seven INTs. And let's just start here. Career-wise, he had 24 games, 13 interceptions. To say that he's a ballhawk would be an understatement. He's also very physical in the run game, had 130 tackles during that timeframe as well. So I think this is going to be a steal. You'll see the title boomer bust next to him, but I really think he's more boom than bust. And you were talking about Daniel Jeremiah, Bucky Brooks. I actually had Andre Cisco right behind the top two safeties in this draft. So he's right up there behind Morag and also the safety out of Oregon as well. So it's going to be good to see what Andre Cisco does. Not Holland. He's not Morag as well, but I think he's right there if you need a playmaker. Yeah, absolutely. So Cisco definitely one of your biggest draft steals by the Jacksonville Jaguars. You've got one more on your list. Who is it? Yep. And thanks for the correction. So Cisco went in the third round to the Jacksonville Jaguars. And I thought that was a little bit late for him when he was only behind Merrick and Holland, at least in terms of where I perceive him. Third on my list would be Jamar Johnson. So I said, I had two safeties. Jamar Johnson is the second one. So he was a safety out of Indiana, the 20th pick and the fifth round to the Broncos. This guy had seven interceptions and a little bit over 400 coverage snaps. So what does that mean? Let's think if you play a college season and it's at least 10 games, every game, you're going to have about 50 snaps that are going to take place on defense. If you play that, that's 500 snaps. This guy had seven picks and 400. So didn't have a lot of experience, didn't start his fresh near Indiana. And I think that's why he dropped so far. Also, he played corner in 2019 for Indiana and then he played safety during 2020, had a great year, actually intercepted Justin Fields twice. And if you look at NFL.com ESPN, they both have Johnson rated in their top five amongst all safeties. I was even watching a video on pro football focus about Jamar, and they had him possibly going in the first round. So for this guy to drop all the way to the fifth, I think it's going to be a great value pickup for the Broncos. And I look forward to seeing what he does in the pros.


And welcome back to the Creative Life Show from the American Creativity Association's Austin Global Chapter. I'm your host, Phyllis Bleece. Joining me today from Vancouver, Canada, is Dr. Hayley Simons. She has received international acclaim for her talent as a concert pianist, for her travel around the world with her musical talent, and she has achieved a doctorate of music and certifications as a life coach and arbitrator. What brings her here today is her long-standing and deep dive into the world of creativity. She co-founded Creative Alberta, and she coaches people on accessing their own creative code. Her first show with us at the Creative Life was on the topic of protecting what she terms the prodigal creative. That creative spirit that we believe resides in all of us. In today's show, Hayley draws more directly on her career as a concert pianist for her lessons learned on how to resurrect our inner creative. And the title of today's show is The Beethoven Betrayal. More about that soon. Let's meet Dr. Hayley Simons. Aloha, Hayley. Aloha, Phyllis. Well, we're very happy to have you back and I want you to talk, please, a little bit about that. We touched on your journey as a prodigal creative and how we'd like to know how this relates to where we are today in the development of the Beethoven Betrayal and how to resurrect our inner creative spirit. Right. Well, thank you for having me back. This is, of course, my favorite topic to talk about is creativity and to maybe give a bit of the backstory. It's almost like a prequel to our first conversation. Where did all of this come from and where did this yearning to explore this subject of creativity and that path that we talked about the first time? And I thought it would be a little insightful maybe to look at where it all began and my training as a pianist for decades. And from very, very early on, I think I started playing piano when I was about three years old. So it does actually have an origin story. I guess you could say this is the origin story. Well, and I've had several people follow up from that show and they want to know all about how do you become a concert pianist? So we'd love to revisit this. This is not usual. And you invite us into a very special life. So please, how would you like to do this? Well, there is a recording that we have dragged from the past. And it is a recording. It's probably one of the first classical music videos back in the day when MTV was was all the rage. When music videos were just starting out, there weren't any or very few classical music videos. And we wanted to take the a really standard, wonderful classical piece and make it accessible visually for people for contemporary audiences. So this recording is actually an etude of Chopin. And it's known by its popular title of Winter Wind. And we're going to watch it next? We're going to watch it next. Okay. Thank you, Hailey. That was very profound to me to have you sitting here and having produced that level of classical music. Bring us now full circle into what this did for you to shift you into becoming a coach for our own creative code. Well, it's always awkward watching your own videos. Um, the process getting to that point, I mean, of course, was the result of years of studying with with real masters, real musical geniuses. I was privileged, really astoundingly, humblingly privileged to work with all those years. And the common thread for myself and all musicians working toward that level of artistic expression is a combination of inspiration and discipline. We talked about this briefly in preparation for this. And watching that video, actually in hindsight, it brought up a lot of past memories and and homages I wanted to pay to the people who were involved in that. Actually, the producer of that video, which I thought was very creatively done all the candles and the the the process of recording that I thought was an amazingly creative venture and the producer who was in charge of that, Michael Ham recently passed. He was an Edmonton filmmaker, very talented and was saddened to to hear of his passing. Because there were a lot of creative minds and hearts and and a lot of inspiration went into a recording like that, not just the performance aspect.  And it really gets me thinking about the the discipline that's involved in all of this creative talk. And sometimes we we get to that point where we're talking about creativity as though it's a it's a playful little whim that we want to we want to nourish and and we want to to have flourishing in our lives as something enjoyable. But but the flip side of that is creativity is actually a discipline. It's a tool that we work on perfecting. And it's for any artist, I'm speaking not just from for myself, I know it's it's almost like an oath of craftsmanship. When I had the privilege of working with these these masters like, like John Perry, who is is still teaching at the age of 80 80, still teaching in New York and throughout throughout the world. And this artistry doesn't retire, it keeps going and going. And even if the actual physical part, the physical component of performing and preparing for concerts, I've I've not done that for a while. But the creative spirit keeps going. And we were going to talk about this brings into into play the title of our our show's topic today, The Beethoven Betrayal. And I know we just heard Chopin. But I I routinely performed the the standard classical composers that everybody would know Beethoven and Chopin and Rachmaninoff and and all of those pieces because I loved playing those pieces and people I thought loved hearing those pieces. Always no matter how frequently they were played, there's always something in a piece of music like that that is either very awe inspiring or or very moving. Hopefully that that's the goal of a performance and working up to that that kind of state on from all avenues. And the the there was I'll take you back a little story about the time when this was recorded. I was also a performer in a contemporary ensemble called the Hammerhead Consort. We were an ensemble of two pianos, two percussionists. We were a very oddball group. And we toured performing pieces that were written by contemporary, meaning living composers. There was one composer that we had who was no longer with us. And that was Bartok. And he made that particular grouping. And he was the the originator of the two piano, two percussion model. And I thought it would be interesting because I had always channeled these voices of the past, whether it's Chopin or Beethoven, I wanted to get to the level of competency where I could authentically or feel like I was bringing their voice to life today. So I was a conduit, I was just channeling. And I thought it would be interesting to explore the mind of the composer and what was Beethoven thinking? What was his everyday life? And this performance ensemble gave me the opportunity to do that, because we worked only with living composers. We were our group was responsible for the commissioning of over 40 works by 40 living composers. Hopefully they'll live in in perpetuity today. Some it was like having a slice of what was happening in musical centuries in the past. And it'll be interesting to see what actually survives this test of time. One of those composers while I was in the midst of preparation for another recording, which included a Beethoven Sonata and this Chopin that that we just heard, asked me how many times do we really need to hear another Beethoven Sonata? And I didn't have a reply. Well actually at the time I replied, hopefully at least one because I was working on it. But I didn't have a reply. And in hindsight, I can see that was the pivotal moment which set into motion this what turned out to be this existential crisis. Well, maybe as a conduit or as a channeler of these voices, my role was actually very almost insignificant. And was I really creative? I mean, all musicians and artists like to think of themselves I like to I used to like to think of myself as as creative. And that was challenging on such a heartfelt level. I didn't know if I played a role anymore. I was just the recording device, essentially. And it threw me off for a long time. It made me really examine what is the purpose of music and performance and creation and creating music. And what went into that I was no composer. I hadn't created anything. I was just the the instrument. I was the tool. I was the technology behind it. And of course, these days we have this this AI, this artificial intelligence, this new technology that can play anything. So what was my role? Was it really significant? Well, what was your answer? And and how many years did it take?  You know, you started out this whole show saying that creativity is sort of a combination of creativity and discipline.  Has it disappeared? Do I now we're talking about the show reclaiming the creative spirit today? Did you feel like it got lost, silenced in the discipline part and overshadowed?  And is that a fair metric? And how does someone else's music differ from the fact that music touches a creative spark in us? That that alchemically becomes something new because we're hearing it. And we're either playing it or dancing it or listening to it or in just receiving it. All of that seems to me there's alchemy in there that brings the human being into the music and the music into the human being. So I've thrown something. It felt like it was a rhetorical question, but you said you were having an existential crisis around it. And so play with some of those themes, if you would, to help us reclaim our own creative spirit. I love that word, Phyllis, when you said it's alchemy. It is, it's literally alchemy. I don't think I recognize that at the time. I didn't really recognize that there was an actual energetic exchange. And the metric that you spoke of actually in the classical field became not just, not just that metric, but you had to perform the best. And it was very competitive. Perfectionism was pervasive and ultimately really destructive. It overshadowed the beauty of that alchemy, that exchange that was the high for me and the origin of all of it. And the existential crisis became a little less ego involved, I have to admit. I mean, my ego was damaged. It was bruised a lot with that one comment. And the taking a few steps back, and of course, as our last show talked about it, I took some steps back and sideways and a few leaps here and there as well. But when it comes down to it, it's that question of, well, what is our purpose? Do we actually collectively know and individually do we know our sense of purpose? Are we really tuned in? Or are we out of tune? Like I was. The dissonance I felt was extraordinary. And then when I segued into my new chapter, my new career that we spoke of last time, including working in the legal field, that dissonance became deafening. And so it morphed into this, it's like a reflective process. The most impactful moments I had, whether it was teaching or performing, and I was teaching concurrently, was always about that alchemy, that exchange of energy, that communication, that connection with somebody else, with another living, breathing human being. If you can connect and impact with someone, I thought that's the real creativity. That's our role. And that's when everything took this pivot to where I am today.  There are other videos that viewers could find of you or your center stage with an entire symphonic orchestra. And what one of those embedded ideas that come up for me is this, this gap between being so perfect that you channel almost as though you were that other original artist. And when we fall short, are those the shadow sides of all of that work? Is that where suicide comes in? I think Vincent Van Gogh, and being out in the sunflower fields and shooting himself when he has had some of his most productive two or three years of painting, 60, 70% of all of his art happened in maybe a three year period of his life, three to five years of his life. And he dies in his 30s. But he shot himself. And you talked last time in the legal profession, we have judges who are outside of ourselves evaluating the quality of our work, whether it be as a lawyer, your client, whether you win or lose, or whether it's a senior partner, or whether the judge gives you a hard time. And if you feel that you haven't lived up to that, their definition of what is it? Is it perfection? Is it creativity? Do we lose our soul to that to the point where we want to lose our life? And so you're you're really calling last time for the prodigal creative to come out for us to to revivify what the connection is to our creative juices. And you were right there on stage. I mean, could you have spiraled down to where you were alcoholic or doing drugs? I mean, our artists go that way. And then I don't know that we'll cover it all today. I want to you're the very one who could speak to the the angst of the creative spirit of being so stellar and falling so short of that in your own in your own estimation that we go into drugs, suicide, self destruction. So I, how do we re, how do we not do that? That so many layers there so so big a question. My my question that that arose out of that, certainly, there are there are depths of despair when when you feel the depths of joy, and you experience the depth of beauty, and that that taste of being able to the the immense power the rush to that you feel communicating and being able to to hold an entire audience captive that's that's like the power of mass communication. We're doing that through the creativity to to have that cut off, I think, can bring on this despair. And even without having that pinnacle of artistic performance, if our creative essence is cut off or stifled in any way, I think the the opportunity for despair is is rife.  And that's the ultimate arrival to to that despair that that, you know, maybe we feel occasionally, but if we feel it for an extended period of time, that's when it becomes really, really damaging and and potentially fatally damaging. And we saw that even with our examination of those in the legal profession, who have such enormously high standards, and high pressure and stresses on them, and talk about a real life judge situation, when you are judged constantly, and you feel that that dissonance. Well, what what's the point if you haven't even gotten in touch with your creative self or your essence, which is the point and that would be what I underscore the entire time is our creative essence is the point. That's why we're here on this planet to connect with other people. And anything we do can be an oath of craft craftsmanship, like I experienced as an artist, or you can experience as a lawyer, you can experience as a film producer, that oath of craftsmanship to what we do is our own homage to creativity. And I wanted to bring in something that we didn't get a chance to talk about last time. And I think I wore this last time as well.  And what it is, it's encased in silver, but it's actually a Malakate. And a Malakate was a spinning world. It was used as a tool by a teenage girl in the 15th century in Aztec. And this was her communication device with everyone. And I wear that to remind us. I love that that world is spiral. And that we aren't on a straight line, but that we're spiraling in and out of being in tune with our creative spirit. But we don't have enough time. We clearly need more time with you just to develop, first of all, the strength of this conversation takes us some time. So we'd love to have you back, Haley, but we'll have to leave it there for now. And I want to let the audience know that you've been watching The Creative Life from the American Creativity Association's Austin Global Chapter on Think Tech Hawaii. And today, we've been talking with our guest, Dr. Haley Simons, to learn about the Beethoven betrayal and how to resurrect our inner creative. Mahalo, Haley, for joining us. And mahalo to our viewers for tuning in on Phyllis Bleece. And we will be back in two weeks for another edition of The Creative Life. Aloha.


We have followed me, oh yo, we have followed me, what a prick, I need him! Gross score. Lads.  Gotta love it. Need a shower? Wait, if we do well enough, we can end fast and you can look at your shower. It's okay, we're simple. You guys think I will win lane? They're all bad. Yeah, Yasuo mains don't really get good and so it's like diamond. Oh, nice. Yeah, he's really not that good. Honestly. The wind wall is gonna hurt me though. That's so tell worthy. Dude. I hate Yasuo man. Literally it was like, alright, there's no way his tornado could go that far. It's like too unrealistic, but it did so. My bad. His that script. Off me, Yasuo. So I think I can W like, middle, that's pretty strong. I almost just trolled. Oh my god.  I'm really feeling it. Out of here. Nothing better than beating Yasuo's, dude.  I mean, I know like her body scale often went up, but it's nice to just do like auto attack damage. This Darius is OVM.  Oh, where's the slow? I didn't have to really ignite, but I was feeling it. Wait, how did it, how did it block my Q? He completely win the wrong way. That champion is broken. Wait, how come it's not canceling out their ward? Where the hell? We still won though, right? Oh, they're gonna strender after that one. Oh, they can't. This game is not even 20 minutes long. Dude, Katerina is so sick. Ignite? Oh, if Ignite kills him, it won't. Whatever you do, don't surrender. I need more footage. What is this kids bop music?  Oh, the Kindred Ultimate! That was so perfect. Oh my god, I love you Kindred. I love some meat. Whoa! Now they're gonna invade, or engage. That was so troll. Wait, Brandt, turn on that? What? What is happening? Alright, well, Yasuo knows where he stands.