Is there a voice? Okay, because we have had some problems in another room. It's okay. We didn't say anything, which we shouldn't say. So we'll start. Hi, I'm Teremini. I've got Chris here and Billy is coming. Is he coming in? Yeah. Hey. Yeah, I was expecting you. You said you were going to come. Yeah. So I'll start all over again because you just say. So just two seconds. So I'm Teremini, Rich, Carl, Chris, Lian, and Billy. So today, welcome to the oil to SIG. I know it's not a popular thing. That's why we expect this. DI is difficult. It can be something very difficult. Hi, Eileen. So I'm just going to cover a bit around the SIG. So you know what the SIG does? The SIG, obviously, is under the alt umbrella. And then I'll talk a bit about antiracism. And we can have a discussion about what each people think antiracism is about or not. And then obviously, I'll have to sell you, right? The idea of joining the SIG. You've been buying stuff outside. I've been buying ideas. I'm going to sell ideas. So we have a team. So Chris is also a member. So I'm the chair. Chris is the office officer. We've got people who are actually attending online. You'll see the picture very shortly. And so the SIG was actually, before it was a SIG, it was a group. Before November 2021, it was a group not under alt. It became a SIG in November 2021. And we've got Remit, which is the typical thing in text, you know, very heavy text about the group of rates and as a community of practice and power and what the group is about. It's basically antiracism and learning technology. The slides are available, by the way. And very important thing here is live experiences, safe space, antiracism, teaching practice, and community awareness, which is a big thing that we need to do now. Okay. Sorry. It's actually a PDF. I didn't get the... So you've got myself and then Rachel is a new officer. So she's our external engagement officer. You'll be getting emails from her mostly in the future. And I'm in also a new external engagement officer. I'm the type of leadership that I do is I like to put the team forward. So we actually go into doing a blog around each officer very soon so that they have visibility and people know who they are. And Olatunde is a vice chair. And then we've got Tanya, who's our internal engagement officer. We've got Chris, who's our events officer. And some of our activities. So we've been... We have three types of activities. Discussion forum, which is a better off a safe space. It's not recorded. It's all organized by ALT. So they do the logistics, registering and everything. And then we discussed about the uncomfortable topic, right? And it's not recorded. So people can say whatever they want. And obviously, it's got to be respectful. It's not like we're going to attack each other suddenly now, virtual attack. And it's within the system as well, like around ALT, not like sidetracking. It's about an hour. And we have one thing that I've started to do from last academic year is a follow up blog to kind of take the reflection and those who could attend because a lot of people have work because the meetings are during work hours, working hours. So they can attend. Sometimes they register and they cannot join. And then we have open forums. Chris mostly deals with us or getting speakers to talk for our events. One thing that we're doing at the moment, they are coming for free, which to me, I am not a big fan of DI work that's not for free. I think I've been saying it a few times. And because DI work is very, very difficult. One of the things that I often tell people, like if you do DI work on a day to day basis, you need space to actually get out from just from hearing the issues that people have, you need to take that space. And some people even have their own mentors have counselors as well. So that's why it's important to value that, okay, it's not just, okay, you need to do that. But then people, you know, they are not paid, they are not getting the things that they need even for training for, because the people who are talking about antiracism as well, they need money to do other things. So I'm not a huge fan of it, but hopefully alt has like some amount of money that we're going to kind of maybe start to give financial recognition to speakers. And we also have started this speaker set of git. And I think it's the first time because I remember Kerry designed that like, oh, okay. So I think it's the first time now we're going to do that. So we've issued for who? Maria. Maria Vakalo. So we had someone from University of Columbia. Yeah. And then we have reading groups which are closed, that one is like 90 minutes. So you get some reading. I very much focus on open resource materials. Because one thing around equity is not everyone has, marginalized group don't have ready to go money that they can just go and buy a book, for example, or have the time because to go even to the public library to get books sometimes because they have caring duties, they have all the additional things that basically squeeze them say, please give me something quick that I can read and I can contribute. So that's few of the things that we have. Now I've got a QR code if you want, everything is pretty much I've made sure that everything is on the alt website as well. So we've got a web space on our page, we've got a blog space, we've got a YouTube channel, I think so far with two events that have been recorded. Because before the other events, before November 21, well, they were part of, it was not yet a safe soul. We don't have recordings for that on alt page. And then we have resource materials. And in the resource materials, we have suggestions also from people if they've found a course useful or campaign useful, it's all in there. And these are some of our activities that we actually did. Allatunde is actually a Siedine who works around AI. So he actually talked about some of the, there's a YouTube recording as well available. So he actually spoke about achieving inclusive education using AI in June. And then in March, we had Maria Miguelis Valcarlos who came from U.S. It was a paper, so she wrote a paper around antio oppressive pedagogies and online learning, which I had been sharing from, I think, the last one, one and a half years. So people were like, oh, I found this paper useful. I was like, okay, we're going to get her to maybe come and talk. So she's actually done a literature review on all, on a lot of papers and other researchers. So that paper is, it's quite bulky, but very useful for if you want to learn about what oppression in technology use of, you know, in online learning is. And then we had, there was one session that I did, which was around creating disability for POC colleagues, people of color who work in junior role. That was actually from requests from the community. Actually, it wasn't even Lori. I think there was a session that Lori was saying, oh, he'd been to an old session where there was someone who came along and the person said, there was no one else that looked like him in the conference. So we're like, okay, how do we create that? How do we change that? So you would probably see we currently recruiting for offices as well. And we welcome junior people as well without experience, who want to join committees, because I think I have the capacity. I definitely have the capacity and patience to kind of give the mentoring that's needed and provide the visibility. So I'm happy to do that. And then November last year, we did something around, we had a speaker, Lisa Lane, who actually she's also part of a group that they did, they definitely designed a course on future learn. So the blog is there, the YouTube link is there, lots of material, lots of comments. And usually when I write the blogs, I provide additional materials as well on top of what's written, what was said. So lots of reading actually in these blogs. And then we also did something around Black History Month, what it means for learning technologies and things like that. So there are quite a few material online already. Now, what we plan to do is, as I was saying to you, this is voluntary work. It's important for me to put the team out in the limelight, put them to shine, because DI work is not easy. And if I don't do that, well, I'm the chair, I've got to do that. I have no other choice. So there's a series of blog, Chris already already wrote his blog. So it's going to, I think, go in the end of September or some point in time. And that's one thing that we're going to do. Let people also start to know who are these volunteers. It's free work, right? But we need to create that space for visibility, promotion, recognition, and then more DI work. And we have an assembly presentation. So Alt Assembly will be happening 19th of October, where we're presenting. And we are looking, we have compiled the list, sadly to say, I was actually looking for the list of all the Alt groups and SIGs and find their contact. Not many of them were publicly available, even as a group, not even individual people, I'm saying, but even as a group. So me and Rachel, we went and we went on every page, look at, you know, what the hashtag was, because this was already available. So if Alt wants to use what we've put together, I'll probably send it as well. So everyone has it. We would like to have more collaboration. Now, the thing around DI, the challenge that I'm facing there is, I cannot go and approach someone and say, would you like to collaborate on DI? That's not impact. That's why I had on the earlier slide, a space for real impact and change. That's not, there's not going to be an impact there. It's more like forced. In a few assemblies now, I've been saying, people are welcome to collaborate, come, we will do it. So I'm kind of waiting for that. So that real change really happens. And we are also looking at other Alt stakeholders like Jess, Ceda, and if universities want to also get involved or invite for in-person, there's not much money, but if we get invited, we will go and probably do workshops. There have been lots of requests for workshops, but I don't know without venue, how do we do it in person? Not yet. So that's the better. Now, there's one thing that I put a lot of focus is the activities are community-driven. It's not driven by me, it's driven by Chris, it's not driven by just us offices. What you say you want us to do is what we'll do. So we've put out a survey, which is how you'll say, where people can say, okay, I want more workshops, I want more close group discussion, which are not being recorded, or I want more discussion on X topic, Y topic, more on how to change things, how to make real impact. We've had people who said they want more activism as well, or they want less of something. So what people will tell us, it's not just people who are members of the SIG, because other people also are members. So we basically just listen and try to implement that. We've done that last year, we've done that the year before as well, even right before we were SIG. And it's something that I continue to do because I think that's how change happens. Now, why anti-racism and not something else? Anti-racism basically is a topic which gets very confused. And may I ask here with a short hand, how much do you know around the topic? So this is low, this is medium, this is high, two hands is very high. Rich, you have to stop the email. Okay, yourself, Eileen. Okay, it's especially in the UK, it's very, very difficult to understand what anti-racism really means, because there are so many things. And sometimes when we talk around, I mean, I do other work around disability as well, obviously, diversity and inclusion is kind of my focus and tech equity. But sometimes when we talk around anti-racism, there will be the dilution of anti-racism. Oh, let's talk about something else. Let's talk of it about equity in general. That's something that we often find, especially if there are white people, because, well, there are white people, for example, who are disabled, right? There are white people who are categorized as LGBTQ and everything. So when they don't really understand anti-racism, they kind of take that topic and try to put it under inclusion. I'm not saying that anti-racism and inclusion is different. It is not, it is actually subsection. But when anti-racism is being talked, we should not dilute it out there. So I'll give you a very, very, very concrete example, real example. So that actually happened only in earlier this year, but I don't know which month. So there was somebody who posted a video about racism in, I forgot which country, but it was a video without captioning. Now captioning is a big thing in the UK because we've got a law about it as well. Now in other countries, there's no such rule.  And people were like, that's the only thing you could say, pretty pictures, or you don't comment, right? And then he started to say, well, if you would have visited my profile, you would have seen that I can't hear, I'm hearing impaired, all these things. One, why would people go and visit the profile of everyone who comments? And why would you make a comment only about the prettiness? Because if someone really wanted to have a discussion about that, I mean, it was pretty clear what was happening. Can someone please translate or tell me what's happening there? What ended up happening in that real story thing? Two black women ended up apologizing to that white male. And that guy, by the way, is a DEI lawyer. He's a lawyer. He does around DEI, but he only deals around disability. That's the problem.  So what ended up happening is an anti-racism issue ended up being two black women apologizing to the white male who has a disability. That's often something which is very uncomfortable actually in the UK, because people get confused around inclusion and anti-racism. They are like, oh, we'll talk about everything else. And there's also intersectionality that comes on top of it. People also get confused around intersectionality. And there's a lot of terms that have been created also to kind of dilute the actual problem. So you'll, for example, have people. We do use term which is people of color rather than vain in the SIG. But if you ask me, I would prefer if someone categorized me as African Asian, which, by the way, does not even exist in the list of ethnicity. I'm always putting other everywhere. I'm always putting other because it doesn't exist. That's how I categorize myself. People have loads of discussion. We can be talking about global majority, about this, about that. It's basically just, again, what we're talking here is inclusion, but changing that actual discussion from anti-racism to, okay, we'll include everyone. We'll not talk of the actual problem. So, yeah, the last bit, which is about meaningful representation. One thing that I was actually, when we were told, I'm also part of the committee, conference committee. So when we were told that we were going to have students, I was like, Laurie, please make sure that the students are representative or representative. And no, it's not, it just doesn't mean that because someone is representing a certain ethnicity, that they are the right representative. We don't need to go far to know what's happening with the government. Okay. And if you look at data that tells you how many, I don't have recent data, but I know a few years back, UK was one of the European countries that had the most ethnicity in there, in MPs and people in the government. But we know what the actual problem is, right? So representation have to be meaningful. Representation we need. If we don't have it, we need to. This is the first thing needed, but it have got to be meaningful. And it have got to be representative that are confident enough to put the voice there. Because if you put someone who's, who won't actually defend what they need to defend. So it's not going to happen. I was going to tell you a repeat after me, you can if you want. So basically race impacts nearly every aspect of racially marginalized people's lives, from access to education to quality of education received, if there is even access to it, including to access to identified work, reward promotion, again, if ever there is access to it. So when we're talking of anti racism in the sector, we need to know so the work that I was showing you earlier, Lisa Lane, the course on future learn. They talk a lot about representative of representation of people in development of software, it was around AI use of AI and things like this. So representation of people in various levels of the developmental stage of software, including users, testers, everyone. So I just wanted to ask, do you have any question? I mean, I don't mind taking question before we proceed. Billy is clear. Do you have a question? Confused? Okay, I'll let you learn that. So this, okay, because I'm using a PDF, sorry. So this is not my own graphics. I've taken it from somewhere else. Actually, here we have three zones of becoming, well, three main zones of becoming an anti racist. So what we've got here is the typical, well, the first one, the pale blue one, is the group that it's easy to recognize, okay, it's easy to recognize when someone is a racist, okay, they deny there is a problem, okay, they avoid the hard questions. And they talk to, sorry, I can't see on this. I actually need to look if you don't mind. So I'll look here. So yeah, so I talked to others who look and think like me. So that's actually not exactly anti racist, okay. And then you've got the other set which is I recognize racism, okay, I understand that. So this actually would be the type of example that I was saying earlier, like, for example, dilution of anti racism under inclusion. So you talk about it, but okay, nothing is going to explode. The one thing, oh, by the way, we have someone who knows how to locate bombs in the room. That was part of the meeting grid this morning, finding interesting thing about people. So we're safe. So this is basically those, so people with these characteristics would fall under that. So I understand my own privilege in ignoring racism. Okay, I educate myself about race and structural racism. Now what you'll see here is it's a lot about me, me, me. So it's also when people are trying to learn.  And then you've got, so they could still, by the way, contribute to some conversation, but not in depth.  And then you've got the last one, which is the more darker blue or rather blue, the others were pale blue, which is okay, I identify how I may unknowingly benefit from racism. I promote and advocate for policies and leaders that are anti racist. I sit with my discomfort. Now this is something very, very important, sitting with one single foot. You remember yesterday we were doing, right? So you were not in the few workshop yesterday, too bad. He was, he knows. We had some, we had some come out, which was difficult, actually, to be honest, and find the actual problem. So, and then I educate my peers how racism harms our profession. I speak out when I see racism in action. I don't let mistakes deter me from being better. I yield positions of power to others, otherwise marginalized. I surround myself with others who think and look differently than me. Now these are, you'll often find these with people who collaborate externally as well outside of England, outside of UK, you will not necessarily okay, but some of them may have these characteristics because they are exposed. So they surround themselves with people who think and look differently than them. That's why, you know, representation is important for that.   We are humans. We'll make mistakes. What we need to do though is recognize those mistakes. And it's this recognition, but then once you've recognized it, how do I change it? Even if I have privilege, how do I change it for others? Am I hearing what they are saying? Am I implementing, you know, we are learning tech here. We had students earlier saying that do people even hear us, you know, like they will be saying, I need this, I need this, but what we are doing is we're giving them something else. So are we, when we look at antiracism, are we doing the thing that the people are saying, I need this, need you to do this, not that, but this. So this is this discomfort. Okay, I have my bias, but I should not be doing this right now. I should be doing that, which that person is asking for. That's the need of the person. That's how I can support the person. So there's loads. Actually, it's a long, long discussion. It doesn't end 30 minutes. I'm afraid. But it kind of, with the resources that you've got on this slide, I think it provides a start of a conversation. So I've got like, I told you, I'm going to sell you things, which is to join us for impact and change. And we have, I have links on this, which is, and I've got a QR code, which is not quite coming up. So if you want to join as an auditor member, we've got a just mailing list. We are looking for a secretary and events officer to join Chris. Chris is a bit alone at the moment, and I, and it's not good to leave him alone. It's somebody else to help. Actually, we're looking for two more offices, events offices, because we want to really expand, and we recognize that people do this voluntary right on top of other things. So we need as much. And then there are links. So there's also a blog and a form that has gone out to join us as speakers. And we are going to look into how we can do some contribution with a pot of money from all to kind of pay and recognize the speakers, because what I really I would like us to see, like you have seen earlier from this slide. So I've had all that today is based here. He's from Nigeria, but he's based here in the UK. Lisa Lane is also based here. We've got Maria Valcaros, who's based in the US. What we're good to see is to hear of anti racism perspective from other countries and other regions of the world, because it's good to be exposed to these cultural differences and perspectives, obviously, not necessarily being negatively influenced because each one will have their own bias. But obviously, you know, we are seeking speakers who can contribute and from what they can contribute, what positives do we take from that and make change. So that's I actually did Rachel was working on some graphics. So this is actually some text that Olatunde said was well, he's basically an academic in business, right? Yeah, business. Yeah, that's what he does. So we've he has got an interest in the role of technology in achieving anti racist learning experience. And obviously he that's his message for you to join us. And then I've got Amin, who is also our who is our external officer. So he says, well, come and join us whoever wants to come and join us. And we're looking to make an impact. Whether it's small or big, the impact needs to be done because we need to start to see change. We can say very often we say change takes time. But we've got to see something start to come. And this is actually a message from Rachel. Okay, okay, where does it go? So she says it's a valuable valuable asset to come to combat underlying racism for cooperation and collaboration, no matter where you sit in your profession. So she's kind of a junior role at the moment. She's new to the UK as well as well as Amy. So they've been here for like about a year. And then we've got some bits and pieces from our speakers as well that we've taken. So that's it for me. We do have time for I'm between you and our reception. So question. I'm just like, thank you very much. I'm putting you in the line. Okay. There are two of them that we've done. So the one with Lisa Lane, the blog as well. It's got loads of materials around AI.  But they were not blinking. It's simple things like this because and I think the product was developed in the US or something like that. So it's just getting the right people at the table. And maybe other thing I could put your question because I think I'm, did you do your ask me thing already? No, that's tomorrow. Yeah. Anyway, I'll ask you anyway now. I think it's the right crowd to be around is maybe alt as a, I mean, if you look at the volunteer that was something me myself I've noticed, which is what I would like to see is like, as far as I know, well, I don't have ethnicity data. So I can because there's no ethnicity data captured so far is what I would like to see is well, there's only me and there's somebody called Manish, I think, who are chairs and of our color. I have never met that guy. I don't even like, I would like to meet and I would like to see more, more diversity in terms of chairs, co-chairs, offices, and not even that. But you know, like all the volunteers in terms of trustees, even in terms of staff. So, well, I guess the question that that comes sorry, putting you on here. So what was the plan for them for the next six months, one year and five years for us to see change and impact, not just change, okay, because change can be we just put people of color there. I want to see that. So my response, I'll try to be as short as I can, because I have to run, but that's not an excuse. So within six months, I would say that we've already made a huge amount of progress in this area, like said, we don't capture or didn't capture any ethnicity data on members. And we conducted or conducted an EDI review of all which came with a number of suggestions and recommendations for what we can do. Some of those are much longer term strategic objectives that we need to look at, but some of them are very much short, short term and big wins. And I see it as a huge priority in terms of amplifying voices, like you say that we have within the community, perhaps often overmoved or perhaps don't have the platform that other people have been given. So there's certainly things that we can do. And in terms of incorporating that data, I think once really in the years time, we will then start to be able to look at group dynamics and into how members are feeling supported and perhaps start to create those connections because we might see a name, but we don't know where that name comes from. So my name's Billy Smith, you might think, oh, that's an English name, perhaps it is, but my mum is Indian or half Indian, names of American Indians. So there is some background, sometimes we don't see what's behind the curtain if you like, as to people's backgrounds. I think everybody's got a story that they can tell, sometimes how equity, diversity and inclusion has affected them, why do people, people of all colors, and different backgrounds. I like what you mentioned in terms of different countries, because we have to learn and understand what is happening in a different context, particularly in higher education, we have so many international students that do all sporting and enlargement that are probably English into second language and automatically accepted into this branch. So I think there's a great deal we can do, and I think the work of this group is going to underpin and enhance that strategic element of what's next in terms of the EDI review. And I think one of the changes we'll make imminently is that we're already recording it with DDI, so it's not... By which way? That narrative of EDI and people just going, oh, it's another EDI thing, because I think sometimes we do get a whole barrage of information coming our way, and there has to be purpose behind it. So I like how you've set out the reasoning. I think your graphic... Not mine, yeah. But that's a good visual that we should be sharing with our community and perhaps recognize where they are. Yeah, what I can do after that, because I wrote a blog, I don't know why it was, which was about pseudo anti-racism, which is basically around that circle or thing you saw, which was like, how do you identify and how do you categorize? And given some example, obviously I've not given every single example, but it's good to know what's important is for people to recognize mistakes. That's the most important. We did that yesterday about change, what's the first step to change, and you were talking about your background. That's one of the reasons why we're doing these introductory blogs, actually, about offices. So people also know from where offices are coming from, as in from what background and what they are bringing and what they are doing, because I think giving this visibility is important. So we can recognize, okay, from what angle. So I'm celebrating the diversity of our language, and the different perspectives that they can bring into the work that we're doing. So I think there's a lot of connectivity between what you're doing and what we as an organization need to do, and there's a lot of showing up that we need to do. We're not cheap to pay to move at the first. From a membership perspective, there's lots of information to take on board, and what you're doing, and aside, there's this thing. Exactly. I mean, one thing we would like to do more as well that we have discussed, I think, for quite some time is also, that's why I was saying, I'm not going forward to keep telling people to other SIG and other groups to come towards me, because we know it's there, okay, as a fact that there are groups that have mainly been almost always been white members, white officers in the group, would like to see more diversity, but it's difficult for them to understand, probably, action on how to do it, would like to give a hand in some way and say, this is how you could do it in the language, in how you are recruiting officers, it's volunteer role, but still, you know, you need to kind of have diversity in some way. Is it sort of raising that safe space? Yes, that's very, very important. Yeah, because you could have diversity, but then, you know, like, the person, the person of color is not feeling safe in that environment, so that's one thing we would like also to do with all to be involved in the processes and feed, because we've got the pool of people who can provide this input and suggestions and feedback, right? So make use of that and kind of feed. One thing I can already tell you, this conference is a big hit among people of color. One, I don't know, I think, I think probably that's the first time we've had people of color as a chair, if I'm not mistaken, and even diverse the other theme, I actually wrote a blog because I interviewed Santanu, I went and look at all the previous conferences and the theme. That's the first time, usually, even when I presented Tech Equity and All Before, I've had to put it under wildcard, but now we have had, this is the first experience with diversity and, you know, it's actually a theme, a main theme, and it's made an impact. So there will be some funding for this, but also, you know, I think there's opportunities to see it now at the external sponsorship. Yeah, yeah, hopefully. Yeah, I mean, this is why a lot of D-Line work doesn't get done, and I'm going to put my whole inclusion hat right now. Even disability, you don't see a lot of disability support being done in an institution because they tell you money. It's an issue because if you want to change. So you have a question now, okay. It's not a question really, it's a comment, and I'm really pleased to see you're putting a little bit of money aside for it, but to be honest, you know, let's just take it back to the start in terms of where this group came from. I don't think it was any coincidence that it sort of organically spun up really during the time of the sort of Black Lives Matter. Black Lives Matter. You know, people really just wanted to do something, and I felt along those lines as well, you know, I've been working in education and technology for a very long time, and it's that sense, and no racism is wrong, I want to do something about it. And actually, this provided a forum, you know, you could go in, you could get some really good practical ideas of what you could do in the workplace, and what you could do with teaching and learning, what you could do with the systems, the AI systems and stuff like that. So the events we have that sort of practical representation of what you can do, it can be just really small things, but it can be really impactful and really big ones as well. So I know the money's important, but if you think about it, all the people who are doing these things, they're doing it because they're committed to challenging racism. I know we're running out of time. With the point that we are acutely aware that perhaps we need to ensure other human racist communities as well, because we are only a very voice, we can only do so much, so I'm really excited to work with you, and on that note, I'm going to have to do that. Yeah, hurry on. So thank you, thank you everyone who's been from low, middle, high, going to be here today.


The only way to build something is with some thing. There is no out of thin air. Every object, every idea, everything is made from something else, a cosmic collaboration of atoms and energy that are shared but never lost. Even the biblical stories of creation, the one that's often claimed to be ex nihilo, depicts a creation from something rather than nothing. It's a creation ex materia, or perhaps creation ex dio, but most certainly not creation ex nihilo. So stop staring at the blank page, waiting for your masterpiece to magically appear. Read a book, watch a movie, take a walk, play a game, listen to a podcast, for it's from something else that you will always make something next.


Thanks for joining us and welcome to Open Infra Live, the Open Infrastructure Foundation's interactive show on YouTube, LinkedIn and Facebook, sharing a production use case studies, open source demos, industry conversations and the latest updates from the global Open Infrastructure community. My name is Thierry Cares and I will be your host for today. Like I mentioned, we are streaming live and we'll be answering questions throughout the show. So we'll be saving some time at the end for the episode for Q&A. Feel free to drop questions into the comments section of your preferred viewing system throughout the show and we will answer as many as we can. Before we get started, I want to thank the Open Infra Foundation members for making this show possible. Today we are joined by a Gold member, Canonical. And we are very excited to see Canonical as well as the rest of the community at the Open Infra Summit in a few weeks. If you haven't gotten your ticket yet, register before prices increase at the end of the day next Monday, May 16th. Like I mentioned earlier, we are joined by Canonical who is a headline sponsor for the event. So the whole team will be onsite in Berlin talking about all things Open Infra, including lucky, cloud cost analysis and DPU enablement with OpenStack. On this episode today, we are going to talk about Data Center Sustainability with a few folks from Canonical as well as one of their customers, Firmus. Sustainable Data Centers are a key topic for Open Infrastructure and I'm very excited to learn more today about how the industry is pushing forward. To kick things off, I would like to introduce the CEO of Firmus, Tim Rosenfield, to talk about their use case. Go ahead, Tim. Thanks, Thierry, and good day, everyone. My name's Tim Rosenfield. I am the CEO, co-founder of Firmus and SuperCloud. As you can tell from my accent, I'm Australian and I'm coming to you at midnight. So excuse me if I seem a little bit tired under the eyes. As I said, we are an Australian business that has been operating for around five years. We are here as part of this open source community and as part of the infrastructure community because we set about to do something quite radical as we saw it, which was to build a better and more sustainable cloud. The group of co-founders of which I'm a part looked at the trends in cloud computing, looked at the trends in power consumption, rising concern about sustainability and carbon emissions, and looked at the type of workloads that were going to be performed in tomorrow's economy in the omniverse for digital twinning, for AI, and the type of supercomputers and high-powered infrastructure that needs to be hosted. And we came up with a challenge to ourselves which was to build a cloud that would be more sustainable, lower the cost to use, and be able to power more performant compute. As I mentioned, powerful compute is a trend that we've observed and many tuning into this session, I'm sure, experienced rising cluster sizes, increased VCPU count in CPUs, denser and denser GPUs, the sorts of GPUs that we deploy, for example, are A100s from NVIDIA for deep learning and neural network work. That runs at 400 Watts today, but looking ahead to the new architectures that NVIDIA have just announced. In that case, we're talking about up to 700 Watts cards. So when we looked at how this sort of technology would be deployed, we realized there was a bit of a bottleneck which would help the planet as it rolls out a greater IT load in the cloud. There's a little stat up there on the screen, but it's actually quite shocking that 2% of global CO2 emissions come from data centers and the clouds that live inside them. That's the same amount of emissions as the airline industry. People don't equate those two stats, but obviously the buildings that host these clouds and the servers that we use, they are emitting a lot of carbon. They're consuming a lot of water. They're using a lot of land. And when you think about the growth rate in the sorts of workloads that we all use and we bear witness to, the pressing need to rethink the footprint of a cloud became apparent to us. Next slide, thanks Alison. So for us to build a more sustainable cloud meant rethinking at the real core level, the actual data center itself. Because what you'll hear about today from Canonical and from me is the use case and supercomputing and cutting edge compute, but you've got to start with the basics. And it's undeniable if those of you on the call experience in the data center space that demand for higher power loads is increasing. So whereas data centers built three or four years ago typically have a rack density of around eight to 10 kilowatts per 42RU, in some cases maybe up to 30 or 40 kilowatts, you are getting an increased demand for again, GPU heavy servers for AI, machine learning, vision systems and game serving that are pushing the limits of servers, to use servers for example, up to sort of two and a half to three kilowatts. So if you think about the sort of infrastructure needed to host that sustainably, you needed to increase the ability to host at a high level, power level per rack. The efficiency in the data center is another problem that we wanted to fix. So aside from not being able to host as dense a compute as the market demands now, the use of air as a medium to cool servers in the data centers is actually not very efficient. And there's a little graph on the right there that is the efficiency matrix and that's based on PUE, so power usage effectiveness. That is a ratio of power into a data center versus power going to the IT load. So an illustrative example, if you have a megawatt of IT load running in a data center, the global average right now in terms of PUE is 1.59. So that says for every one unit or one megawatt, you need an additional 590 kilowatts to run what is ostensibly the cooling systems. So 59% wastage on top of the base IT load, for us as a enterprise trying to build a sustainable cloud, the notion that we would waste 59% of our energy had to be challenged. The problem when you think about all of these issues together, a growing demand for higher power loads, the inability to have great efficiencies with air cooling and the global fleet of data centers expanding, you see a problem arising where sustainability is going backwards in the industry. Thanks Alison. So to build a sustainable cloud, a high performance cloud and an AI cloud that would have a high power load would be lower cost to use and would be sustainable to operate. Again, we had to go back to basics and rebuild the data center. So we break this into two parts. One is actually rebuilding the data center itself. And that's where we'll get into in a couple of slides time the actual technology that we've developed. And two, we wanted to build a modern stack that would scale to modern work practices. And that's where our partnership with Ubuntu and Canonical has been very important. We are not as core founders from the data center industry or from the cloud industry. We have an extensive team now who've come along the way who are, but at the outset it was important for us to broaden the use case for people coming to SuperCloud which is the computational cloud that we've built within our data center and make it easy to lift and shift workloads, computational workloads from other public clouds or even from experiences that they have in their own on-prem service. So we tasked Ubuntu and Canonical to build us a hypervisor that would be flexible, that had all of the familiar tools that machine learning scientists, data scientists, visual computing engineers and others would expect on the likes of EC2 or AWS or Azure and similar networking environments, similar storage environments and build that stack and build it so that we could offer that same experience but importantly, give us flexibility for what's coming next. And you'll hear later in this talk from John Thor and he talks about supercomputing because that's a really important development in clouds that we can offer natively with Canonical and the system that we've built, the ability to take disparate servers, offer them as a virtualized, containerized platform but at the same time with software changes bring them together in a true supercomputing cluster. So it was innovate in the infrastructure, innovate in the stack and build a truly modern sustainable cloud. Next slide please. So the technology that we developed as a data center to host this is based on the concept of immersion cooling. Immersion cooling itself is not new. It's been around in the IT space since the 60s. It was first written about by IBM in the late 60s as a test for an alternative method to keep a server cool. In more recent years, there are other players that have developed technology as power loads have started to increase. The most major proponent of this in the data center space in the cloud space is Alibaba. They have a 40 megawatt immersion data center that they built in China. And there are other private enterprises who have built tank by tank level installations. We looked at this technology as the future of efficiency in data centers and there's a core reason why that is the case and that is physics. So the physics of using a fluid to remove heat from a server versus air to remove heat from a server is a factor of a thousand times difference. So air has what's known as a heat transfer coefficient of two and a half watts per meter squared whereas immersion fluid has a heat transfer coefficient of two and a half thousand watts per meter squared. So considering that the main issue we were trying to solve is sustainability, which lowers cost, which decreases carbon by making the efficiency a lot greater, a thousand times greater at removing heat, which is the core driver of energy consumption in a data center. We are able to achieve our goals and design a system around that. Immersion is compatible with traditional air-cooled servers. In our case, we use servers from Supermicro. They have experienced with immersion as it has started to become adopted around the world. We use AMBCPUs, NVIDIA GPUs, Melanox networking. All these components are compatible with immersion fluid. The technology itself, as I said, is based around a much more efficient way of keeping servers cool and it leads to a couple of breakthroughs. One is the cost to build a tier three equivalent design per megawatt is 75% less than an air-cooled equivalent. And it's down again to that simple physics differential, which means the system is a lot more simple. It has a extremely low PUE. So that PUE that I mentioned earlier, our system runs at a PUE of 1.026, which is almost as close to one and purely efficient as you can get. Obviously that reduces the power consumption and reduces the carbon emissions. The ability to host high compute loads is also greatly increased. So with our system, we host 130 kilowatts per 42RU rack. Again, the servers that go in this system are compatible with traditional air-cooled data centers. We decided to build a large hyperscale size installation down here in Australia, specifically in a state of Australia called Tasmania. Tasmania is unique in Australia in that it is powered by 100% renewable energy, a lot of hydroelectricity and wind and solar. So we ended up with a design and now built 20 megawatt facility that is powered by renewable energy and operating at the most efficient setting for a data center, arguably that we know of in the world. Next slide, please. So we call this the cloud infrastructure of tomorrow today. Next slide, please. And it is within this infrastructure that what you're all probably a little bit more interested in is what we've built and that is super cloud. So super cloud, as I said at the top, is a computational cloud. Immersion in its earlier days now, although it is starting to gain a lot of industry adoption as the simple truth of the drive to be more sustainable and more cost-effective starts to win out over more costly and less sustainable air-cooled data centers. There are a few challenges to overcome when using immersion. The physical nature of the data center is slightly different. Instead of having a rack vertically, you have it obviously horizontally and you have to deal with the mess of immersion fluid. So it does take a team of specialist data center operators in our case. We have those in-house to service the service in this environment. So it's not easy to do co-location. So for us, a very important use case was to build our own computational cloud and super cloud has all the attributes that we aspire to showcase. That is power, that is efficiency and that is a lower cost to use, much lower cost because of that efficiency. Next slide, thanks. We try to quantify that because the market broadly, we've found is not really awake to the impact, the carbon impact specifically of compute. There are obviously very well-known players in the market who look to offset their power. So that's where you do a PPA and you buy green power from a generator. But the problem is in an energy grid, electrons don't discriminate. So if you're connected to an energy grid that has say 500 grams of carbon per kilowatt hour equivalent and you offset your carbon, that's still very useful but the end result here is you're still consuming power that is 500 grams per kilowatt hour because you're connected to an interconnected grid. By being connected to a genuinely renewable base grid, we can easily quantify the actual carbon output of our facility. And so we try to educate the market on this and we boil it down to two very simple components. One is the carbon emitted from a VCPU core per annum and the other one is from a GPU. In our case, we use a 100 GPUs. So for illustrative purposes and depending on how many Australians are listening on this call, this may or may not make much sense but SuperCloud, which is hosted in Tasmania which is hosted within our energy efficient infrastructure has the stats that you see up on the screen there. So we emit three and a half kilograms of carbon per VCPU per year or 572 kilograms of carbon for an A100 per annum. Contrast that with those other brackets there and those are Australian states. So Victoria, New South Wales, Queensland and Western Australia and you have up to a five to six times lower carbon coefficient than clouds that are hosted in availability zones in those big states. So part of our mission in educating the market about their carbon footprint, when they think about these really energy intensive AI and machine learning workloads that they use SuperCloud for is to say, well, you're gonna build a job.  You might be building a new neural network project and it's going to take 300 hours of GPU time. Well, what is the exact carbon going into that and how can you report on that? And so we've made a real effort to capture and report on and contrast the carbon savings by using SuperCloud and by promoting this type of energy efficient technology. Next slide please. So as I said, and this is particularly relevant to OpenInfra and OpenStack and Canonical, to showcase this infrastructure, to build SuperCloud, it wasn't good enough to just have a simple VM or a simple bare metal. We wanted a full stack, well-liked, flexible product. And so for us, OpenStack and Canonical support of OpenStack was a very logical choice. So it's enabled us to build a few distinct products that help articulate our positioning in the market. So a sustainable compute engine or SCE, think of that like our version of EC2. So it's VMs, Kubernetes, it's scalable, it's elastic and importantly it comes with machine images that we can deploy that we maintain and all the APIs that we support from NVIDIA and other platforms like Converge. Cloud native super computing is something that probably John Thorke can talk about a little bit more, but is this concept that I mentioned at the top, which is the ability to have both cloud native, so typical cloud workloads alongside the option to orchestrate a lot of bare metal into a very high-performance cluster with a simple software change. So we see a lot of demand for this type of service in the education space, in the e-research space, anywhere that groups are looking to cloudify, if you like, HPC and large AI workloads and need the power of a supercomputer, but they can now get that in the cloud and with all the sustainability advantages that we bring. And finally, of course, there is storage. So with SuperCloud, we offer block and object storage compatible with the S3 API. Finally, and importantly, sustainability unlocks the price advantage that we were seeking at the top, which was to be a lower cost cloud. Obviously by being able to build a system that is 75% less cost to build and by running it at up to 50% less power and by being powered by renewable energy, it does unlock substantial lower cost of access to this sort of technology. And so this fits into our mission of being able to offer very simple price structures to customers without the, let's say, gotcha pricing, where you might be charged for IOPS or for egress. It's very simple, very straightforward, but importantly, it's very possible because of the sustainability that we've built into our system. And that is the end of my presentation. Hola, thanks a lot Tim for this presentation. It was a really compelling use case. I'm glad that open infrastructure software like OpenStack can help enabling innovation in that space by making the software available for everyone to take and innovate with. And I guess I had one question. The software developer in me had a quick question for you. You talked a lot about innovation in the way the data center is built, but is there any improvements that could be done to support your mission more on the software side, like on OpenStack or Kubernetes or Ubuntu? Is there like things that could be developed there that would push the envelope on sustainability as well on the software side the same way you do it on the hardware side? It's a good question. I think I'd answer that by saying that I feel that open source software more broadly is already doing a lot for us because if you think about our use case of trying to educate and bring to the market the benefits of sustainable technology, but we don't have the backing or co-location force of a customer like Microsoft, Amazon or Google using the hardware, it was very important for us to be able to demonstrate the breadth of use and flexibility for consumers in the product. And so by using open source, we're able to bring a really wide range of tools that are very compatible with a lot of proprietary platforms that are already used in some of the big clouds. So I think that's answering it in a slightly different way. One way, another way to think about it would be, and that's where my head went, is are you thinking about power saving, power saving algorithms or other software based solutions to be more sustainable, maybe? To be honest with you, I think that's our next chapter. I think that will be a very fun development to say, well, when the server's not been used, how can it sleep and how can we work with the open source community to optimize that? But I would say that open source has been instrumental in proving the commercial viability of this and it's already doing a lot for us. Okay, so we'll just continue to do what we're doing since it seems to have enabled your use case. Keep pulling the strings, keep peeling the onion. That's what we did with the infrastructure and it lets there be a viable alternative to proprietary software. Okay, well, thanks again for your very interesting presentation. We'll switch to the next presenter. So I would like to introduce Tito Sklerak, Product Manager at Canonical, to talk about Canonical's reference architecture for OpenStack implementation and how those help minimize poor consumption. Go for it, Tito. Thank you, Thierry, and thank you, Tim, for the amazing introduction to the sustainability topic in general. So talking about Canonical's reference architecture for OpenStack implementation, I think you've heard that many times from us already so that we focus a lot on the price performance, achieving a price performance optimized architecture for infrastructure implementation in general, not just OpenStack, but all the other infrastructure components that build on top of OpenStack, including Kubernetes, including SAF, and many, many other technologies. And this really goes well together with this sustainable computing paradigm because if you think about that, the goal of sustainable computing is to reduce these emissions and the way it can be achieved is by putting together a more dense architecture for data center implementation, which at the end of the day translates into less servers running while actually providing the same amount of resources. So pushing the hardware into its limits, right, making sure that we really maximize the efficiency of the hardware that we use. So what do we understand as a price performance? So if you think about that, if you build a cloud, if you build a data center, there's obviously a variety of hardware choices that you can make regarding starting from Silicon, moving through typical resources that build up a data center like compute resources, memory resources, storage resources, network resources. You can end up having a super resourceful data center, but at the end of the day, not being able to leverage all of those resources, just for example, because of the software limitations, right? Or you can build a data center using like all flash storage devices, but not being able to really utilize that because it turns out that the network in your data center is a bottleneck, right? So having a look at how this ratio of cloud performance to cloud price looks like, it most likely resembles the curve that's demonstrated here on the graph. And our goal is obviously to provide a maximum performance, but at the same time, making sure so that organizations don't over invest. So that they only use that set of technologies that allows them to climb to that maximum performance, but not spending any extra money on unnecessary extensions that they would be not able to benefit from. And if we move to the next slide, please, this is how we achieve that. So there are a lot of ingredients that build up to this price performance optimized architecture, but let's start with the service placement. So as you probably know, there are various architectures that you can use when building an OpenStack cloud. There is a fully desegregated architecture where all services run in isolation on separate nodes. There is a converged architecture where control plane services run on isolated nodes while compute network and storage resources run distributed across the remaining nodes in a cluster. But there's also a hyperconverged architecture that we promote in the first place when building data centers for our customers where basically both control plane, compute network and storage resources, all of them are equally distributed across all of the nodes in a cluster. And this type of an architecture, a hyperconverged architecture, ensures maximum resource utilization because if you think about that, there are less nodes that are required to run all of the necessary services that OpenStack needs to run to be able to provide its function, which is basically being a cloud platform. It helps to standardize on a single hardware configuration across all of the nodes in a data center. And as a result, it all leads to less servers being required to run the cloud and TCO optimization because at the end of the day, clouds can be sustainable, but if they're not economical, they have no way to survive, right? And now moving to the next slide, when it comes to the actual machines, the actual hardware, we obviously cooperate with the leading hardware manufacturers around the world to be able to build up OpenStack-based clouds on the top of various hardware, but we are pretty strict when it comes to the exact hardware specifications and recommendations. So there's obviously a kind of a balance that we need to find between how many servers we can actually put inside of a single rack and there is a temptation to go with one unit rack servers in the first place, but based on various analyzes that we've made over years and based all of the lessons learned from hundreds of OpenStack cloud deployments that we've done to unit form factor is usually the most optimal from the price capacity ratio point of view to the loss of putting a lot of resources inside that at the end of the day, leads to less servers required to run a cloud of a planned capacity. And when it comes to PCIe, the fourth generation of PCIe is usually sufficient from the performance point of view and it does not put any extra codes on the businesses. If we go to the next slide, once we've chosen a server, like once we've chosen the Chassis for all of the resources, the next step is to kind of plan how many CPUs with how many cores are we going to place inside of these Chases? And the same goes for RAM and the same goes for storage, right? And obviously, if you're planning to build a server that would have like one terabyte of RAM in total across of all of the chips that it has inside, you can approach that in a various ways, right? So you can either use less high density chips or like more low density chips, right? So even at that stage, we also take a look at that from the price performance point of view. So the ratio of the overall cloud coast to the resource size mostly resembles the kind of an U-curve. So we try to avoid those border lines and the most efficient option usually lies somewhere in the middle, meaning that we try to leverage all the available slots inside of the Chases to be able to fill it in with various resources but also making sure so that the individual resource size is optimal from the pricing point of view. And moving to the next slide, when it comes to storage, this is a little bit more complex because there are obviously various types of storage devices that are available out there like you can build up the cloud consisting of regular HDDs but you can also use SSDs. There are various types of interfaces like there's SAS but there's also NVMe and there are even, you know, highly-performance, super-performance storage device like Intel Optane, for example but they're cost per gigabyte very significantly depending on what device are we using. So you can obviously build a cloud, you can build the entire cloud consisting of Intel Optane, it will provide like a super-high performance but it's going to cost a lot, right? On the other side, you can build out the cloud out of regular HDD devices, it will be super cheap but, well, it's very quickly going to become a bottleneck, right? So the solution is to find a balance somewhere in the middle and now if you go to the next slide, this is exactly how we achieved that in Canonical's reference architecture for OpenStack implementation. So we use a tiered storage approach and we use Ceph as a software-defined storage solution out of the box. We support many other options as well but this is what we use by default. So in our reference architecture, Ceph OSDs run directly on HDD devices while the storage B-Cache layer that is in front of Ceph OSDs is implemented using NVMe devices. Those can be either SSDs or Intel Optane devices depending on the exact customer needs and interestingly, we do not have enough time to present all of the results but we have an internal cloud running that uses exactly these kinds of reference architecture and we benchmark that cloud and we are able to get comparable performance results to some of the other clouds that results from them were published in the Internet that use all flash architecture. So cost savings are significant while there's no visible impact on the overall performance of the cloud. So that's mostly it in terms of the Canonicals. I think there's one more slide. I'm sorry if we go there. So on the network side, we try to leverage most of the underlying network as well, meaning that if you have a look at that from the cost per gigabyte point of view, cost per gigabit per second, the 100 gigabit per second network fabric is usually the most cost efficient especially when it comes to implementing open stack at the scale, scaling it out to tens, hundreds or even thousands of nodes. That's usually the only option at that scale at the same time. And for this reason, we obviously try to leverage various types of accelerators like SmartNICs or DPUs where starting from the open stack you all got released, it is now possible to fully offload OVN components into DPUs attached to hypervisors. We leverage GPUs significantly as well as a part of our reference architecture. As Tim pointed out, GPUs are pretty much important when it comes to sustainability. We allow GPU virtualization using NVIDIA VGPU software and as a result, we can provide this super fast network connection between instances running on top of open stack. And now I think that's the end of the presentation at least from my side. Yeah, thanks, Titus. It was really interesting. I really appreciated your approach to tiered storage in particular which is always a challenge to balance cost versus speed on the storage side and I feel like you have a good solution there. We had one question on, it's probably for me, where can I see this presentation again? Well, we actually post on YouTube the full recording of the show after the show ends so you should be able to find it on YouTube or on the link that is probably pushed into your local comments right now. And I had one question for you, Titus, before we pass to John. Would you say, since the theme of the episode is sustainability, would you say that sustainability is a top concern in your customer requirements when they come to Canonical to build their cloud infrastructure? Sure, so I think most of our customers care about maximizing the efficiency of the hardware that they get and maximizing the overall performance and cost efficiency of their data center. So even though they do not think about that through, you know, from the sustainability point of view, at the end of the day this kind of translates to sustainability, right? And I think open source technologies are really helping organizations to achieve the sustainability goals because with open source, you know, everyone can build a cloud, right? I'm not saying hyperscalers, like all of those big public cloud providers do not care about sustainability at all. I'm not saying that, but we can invest much more in sustainability with open source technologies and, you know, with the entire paradigm of the cloud computing being a little bit more distributed than it is right now with just, you know, a number of big public cloud providers handling the majority of the workloads, we can help companies like Firmus and many, many other to build local public cloud infrastructure that answers the sustainability needs. Well, thank you. And I'll switch to our last speaker, John Torr-Christensen, another product manager at Canonical to talk about HPC power usage effectiveness and including how Canonical enables this for the Firmus use case. Go for it, John. Thank you, Té. So you might be thinking what is HPC? So let me give you a quick intro. High-performance computing or supercomputing is the procedure of combining computational resources together as a single resource. The combined resources are often referred to as a supercomputer or a compute cluster. The reason this is done is to make it possible to deliver computational intensity and the ability to process complex computational workloads and applications at high speeds and then parallel. These workloads require computing power and performance that is often beyond the capabilities of a typical desktop computer or a workstation. Next slide, please. HPC is used in various fields. For example, in automotive and aerospace sectors, they use HPC for simulation workloads, such as computational fluid dynamics to simulate how a vehicle might perform or be affected by the real world. Automotive has also been a serious adopter of AI ML for autonomous driving. Next slide, please. The energy sector is a large user of high-performance computing. The energy sector might try to optimize the placement or operation of wind turbines or solar panels, optimize the delivery of electricity through its network or for the discovery of national resources. Next slide, please. The health sector. HPC and AI ML is used for anything from detection or cancer cells to the simulation of blood flow through wider organs. It's used to understand our major organs, such as our brain. Pharmaceutical companies and genomic researchers use high-performance computing to discover the function of genes and to understand complex biological processes, such as protein folding. Next slide, please. Universities are using HPC to reach new discoveries to better understand or improve the world we live in today. This might be anything from simulating various aspects of our world, such as figuring out how is the weather going to be today or tomorrow or a week from now, or just any any source of discovery. Next slide, please. Media and entertainment uses large-sending clusters for video-ending and generative visual effects. So this could be anything from the creation of animated movies or, you know, enhancing the movies or TV shows we might be watching. Next slide, please. The financial sector uses HPC for risk and anonymity detection, high-frequency trading and portfolio management. So overall, thermos with its superclub built with a clear focus on AI ML and high-performance computing has a great potential to deliver discoveries across multiple sectors in an anti-efficient way with a true focus on sustainability and it does this with its very focused and specialist resources specially configured and architected to deliver performance for these sorts of workloads. Thank you. Thanks, John, for this landscape of HPC use cases. I guess that leads to my question. What is the main relationship between those HPC use cases and what organizations like Firmus are doing around sustainability? Why would you use a sustainable data center for HPC use cases, basically? So, HPC use cases are quite compute intensive. They require a lot of energy. Firmus building the superclubs solutions on the data center optimized for low PUE drive sustainability. As it lowers the overall energy usage required to run these energy demanding workloads. This along with the usage of renewable energy really drives sustainability for Firmus and these customers. Okay, that makes sense. So, I guess my next question would be for Titus or you, John, around the talks that Canonical will do during the summit. Is there any specific session that we should be looking forward in Berlin around sustainability but also other aspects of building clouds? Sure, so happy to cover that. So, first of all, just to express my excitement about the opening for summit being resurrected as an in-person event. I think it's a great thing and I'm really looking forward to seeing all of you face-to-face in Berlin if you are only coming there. So, what do we expect from the event and what do we expect from Canonical there? So, you are going to see during our keynote there that the growth in the number of OpenStack users is kind of explosive, right? So, we've seen that first based on the results from the OpenStack user survey from 2021 where it kind of became evident that there are already 25 million of cores being run in production in OpenStack. Over the last couple of months we've seen an explosive increase in the number of new use cases for OpenStack at the same time, right? So, more and more companies start using OpenStack to build local public cloud infrastructure. Firmus is a great example here, right? But it also continues, it starts being used as a foundation for high-performance computing so there are more and more use cases for OpenStack. We are going to have a session that will use to convince you why should you become a local service provider because maybe this is something you haven't thought through before if you only have data centers in place if you have the infrastructure there's nothing blocking you from becoming a local service provider there is a business case behind that. We're going to talk a little bit more on sustainability. There's going to be a session about the hyper-converged architecture prepared by one of our engineers. There's another session about SmartNICs and DPUs and the offloading capabilities to these kind of accelerators. At the booth we'll be presenting GPU virtualization with NVIDIA with the usage of NVIDIA BGPU software and last but not least LOKI. So, this new exciting acronym describing the Open infrastructure building blocks that allow you to run both traditional and cloud-mative types of workloads. On the same infrastructure we'll showcase how developers can set up LOKI on their workstations in just a couple of commands and benefit from the best of open source on a single platform. That sounds very exciting. Looking forward to all of those talks. We have a few other talks around sustainability at the summit with BBC who will be showcasing environmental dashboards that show the carbon impact of your workloads. We'll have also how to build OpenStack Cloud together with the OpenComput project platform as well as a forum session on making OpenInfo sustainable. So, looking forward to openly discussing that with the rest of the community. We should bring back all of our speakers now for maybe we have time for a final final question so if you can all go back on camera thank you all. So, we're nearly to the end of the show. I wanted to ask you a question in general because we've discussed a lot how you all are building solutions to solve the sustainability problem in the cloud workloads that Tim really introduced well when he explained that it's not going in the right direction right now so we need a complete paradigm change in how we approach those data centers. I guess my question is what are the biggest challenges in building sustainable data centers? What is the main blocker? Is it finding the funds to do it? Is it the technology that is not necessarily completely mature? What is your top concern from a user side at Firmus but also from a solution provider side at Canonical? What is the main issue when you have one of those use cases around data center sustainability? Should I start with the data center side? The biggest challenge to adopting a sustainable data center is that adopting immersion requires the adoption again of a different way of managing physically compute servers. Where the industry is used to co-location in a data center where it is easy to physically access the server and maintain it the rise of immersion, which we believe is inevitable because of its inherent benefits, means that it is going to take more of a specialized team to operate the hardware. Someone who is familiar with the system, who understands how to deal with the more complexity in dealing with a fluid that is in the servers. Our great challenge and one of the reasons that we have SuperCloud as a showcase product is that the large scale cloud users so the big hyperscale US and European clouds are being very regimented in an air cooled environment so they've got their servers that turn up into the data centers they deploy them, they move on. We see the adoption again of this technology as inevitable but it is going to take some time for the ingrained work practices of dealing with air cooled servers to change and for that knowledge based build up. That's one of the reasons that we have gone end to end rather than just offering a data center with co-location and asking the client to understand how to operate their hardware in the environment we realize the need to actually support the hardware itself support the servers offer a stack on top if it's needed so that you can think of these as cloud modules that can be deployed anywhere and fuss free so for us it is adoption of new technology and we're trying to solve that by giving large clouds a building block to use this technology instantly. So teachers our canonical employees all require to learn scuba diving now for rescuing servers in immersion data centers or what are the main challenges on your side? So I would say the biggest challenge is to establish a benchmark so I think Firmus has done a great job and we've seen that on the slides being able to measure how much does a single vCPU on a particular cloud what's the carbon emission coming outside of this vCPU at the end of the day right? Since none two opens and clouds are usually the same there's always going to be some difference when it comes to this exact number right? So I would say the biggest challenge is to establish a benchmark and be able to review those results as we progress and adjust the reference accordingly to be always able to provide the one that results with the most sustainable data center. It feels like we need to make those metrics a lot more used across the industry to as a way to force people to ask the right questions about the impact of their workloads because clearly now today I feel like we have cloud providers that are very big on to sustainability that will really measure and display those carbon emissions but it's not used everywhere and so it's difficult to use it as a sales point or as a differentiation and so like you said I think like this benchmark or at least this promoting those metrics is really key to the next wave of adoption for sustainable data centers. Anything John? I mean the suppose the only real way to measure the environmental impact of salt resolution will be to measure the overall end usage of the infrastructures and data center of where that salt runs but in terms of sustainability HPC can drive a reduced impact for example HPC resources could be used to carry out research and enable discoveries that might help in environmental impact. Okay well thank you again everyone I feel like we're out of time so we can't really take any more questions I want to thank you all for speaking today I appreciate you all joining us and I feel like the audience had a good picture of how you can build a sustainable data center today using open infrastructure technology using Canonical and seeing Firmus as an example of how to do it well so if you enjoy today's discussion around sustainability don't forget the stocks that we just mentioned around sustainability at the upcoming Berlin Summit to continue to learn how open infrastructure plays a critical role and don't forget the prices increase end of day, Monday next week so register now unless you want to pay more we're doing a break from Open Infra Live now and we'll return to your screens in a few weeks after the Berlin Summit so if you have an idea for a future episode and we want to hear from you submit your ideas at ideas.openinfra.live and maybe we'll see you on a future show so thanks again to our guests from today and I hope to see you all in a few weeks in Berlin have a great day!