Good evening everyone welcome to tonight's common council meeting once again I asked at the Alderman place their microphone as close as they can here aside I still had people calling and asking that I asked the alderman to please We do have a lot of viewers believe me. They're out there Before we start our meeting again I asked city clerk to read the quote for the week and maybe a little announcement a little announcement Voting is the most precious right of every citizen And I thank the mayor for just giving me one minute to just remind the public in case you've forgotten tomorrow is election day It it is proving to be one of the biggest elections the city has ever ever seen What we saw downstairs today just proves to me that the tomorrow's election will truly be history-making The polls do open at 7 a.m. In the morning, and they close at 8 p.m And what I wanted the public to know is that we have several alder people that have generously volunteered their time tomorrow to either be a greeter or a poll worker and Just so you know you may see familiar faces in the polls. They will be the alderman However, they will be taking off their alderman's hats that day. They become part of my team the poll worker team And I want to thank each and every one of them for doing that So if you do see an alderman at your polling place They've become part of my team so that we can get through this election process successfully So I would like to thank all of you that have done that and we will see you all tomorrow No Thank you very much you done. Thank you, Sue Call the 15th regular meeting of the Common Council to order. Please call the roll Boren bauk Decker Gisha Hannah Heidemann Kittlesen Clowness Meyer Montemayor Rinflaige Ryan Suric Vanderweel for Hasselt and Wongamon 16 present forms present all my sir, would you please lead us and recite in the Pledge of Allegiance? Thank you, Mayor. I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America and to the Republic for which it stands One nation under God Indivisible with liberty and justice for all Thank you alderman Suric approval of the minutes president now. Thank you, mr. Mayor I'd move for the approval of the minutes second motion in the second to approve minutes under discussion There is none all in favor say aye aye any opposed Motion carries minutes stand to prove Mayor's appointments attorney McLean Thank You honor honorable members of the council hereby submit the following appointments for your confirmation Rachel Newton to be considered for appointment to the tourism advisory committee to fill the unexpired term of Rick Peterson whose term expires for 30 2010 Leo messner to be considered for appointment to the tourism advisory committee to fill the unexpired term of Linda jar whose term expires 430 2009 and mark disembry to be considered for appointment to the tourism advisory committee to fill the unexpired term of Kara Leonard Whose term expires for 30 oh nine signed by the mayor and those appointments will rely over And we have confirmation of appointments Alderperson Edward sir to be considered for appointment to the sustainable sheboygan task force to fill the unexpired position of Alderperson vicki meyer whose term expires on for 20 oh nine signed by the mayor. Thank you attorney McLean. I need a motion to confirm President Hanna, thank you, mr. Mayor. I would make a motion to confirm all the person sir second motion second to confirm any discussion There is not all in favor say aye. I any opposed Motion carries Appointment is confirmed Congratulations moment Public forum madam city clerk. Yes this evening first on the list would be John Scribner Joan if you could come up to the microphone, please And if you want to pull the microphone a little bit closer to you Joan, that would be great And you will have five minutes. Thank you Mayor Perez and chewing common counsel. Thank you again for another opportunity opportunity to be able to talk to you again Part two I Don't know if I said this last week or not. So forgive me if I'm repeating but On the issue of the Bob and Tom comedy show that was at the Wild Center on October 3rd I did get a chance to talk to Randy The manager over at the Wild Center on Wednesday October 15 It seems he was in a financial bind trying to pay for the expenses of running the Wild Center The Bob and Tom comedy show on October 3rd was a sellout The profits to the Wild Center was about $8,000 and that one night that a more profit than an entire season of the Sheboygan symphony And that's kind of a sad commentary for For us the city of Sheboygan Another sad commentary is that Randy would rent the Wild Center to the Bob and Tom comedy show again in the future Again the almighty dollar seems to take priority over morality and decency Didn't the readers digest once recommend Sheboygan as the best place to raise a family several years ago in the past Well, how are we doing now Sheboygan on that issue? Then I had also left off about the sex-respect curriculum that was taken out of the public school some years ago I Feel the answer should be yes to abstinence only Yes to a sex-respect curriculum in the showing public schools too bad it was removed from the Sheboygan area school district some time ago What about sex before marriage? What about living with a member of the opposite sex before marriage? What about recreational sex or a one-night stand before a marriage? What about adultery where does the Sheboygan Common Council the Sheboygan police force the Sheboygan area school district plan Parenthood and the social agencies of the city of Sheboygan and Sheboygan County stand on these issues Are adultery and living together before marriage still wrong or did rules against these lifestyles fly out the window sometime in the past? Or maybe it's God still right when he said you shall not commit adultery exodus 2014 and flee fornication first Corinthians 618 Flee to run away from fornication sexual intercourse between unmarried people a good movie that did play in Sheboygan Was fireproof Starring Kirk Cameron a good firefighter and a good cop will live by this rule never leave your partner behind And that's also a good rule for a marriage never leave your partner behind On another subject whatever happened to God in the arena of public government city state and national Whatever happened to God in the public school arena For the room for the removal of God from our public schools Like yes, we can thank Madeline Murray O'Hare who decided that maybe we don't need God in the public schools in 1963 She was responsible for the removal of Bible reading and prayer from the public schools Have you walked the hallways of schools in the Sheboygan area school district lately? Try it Take a survey watch the teachers trying to promote respect courtesy good behavior and maintain discipline all without the mention of God How does that even work? Because courtesy good behavior and respect our values that are given to us from God Go in a showing area school district hallways and watch and listen to the kids Walk in the school hallways and classrooms and do your own survey We should thank God for the Christian schools that we do have in the city and in the county Also, we should thank God for a see you at the poll which was here in Sheboygan on September 24th And we should thank God for organizations like campus life and the campus life family center out on ok near Judy's place restaurant Campus life helps kids who are in middle school and high school Campus life reaches out to middle school and high school kids in Sheboygan city and county schools I cannot say enough nice things about campus life. The one where that does come to my mind is life changing On another subject, whatever happened to discipline in the public schools Who was it that said it was now a crime to put the board of education ie paddle? To the seat ie the back part of the body of learning Why is it now illegal to take a 12-inch ruler to a disobedient child knuckles when the child is being defiant or disorderly in the classroom? Is it now illegal to throw a chalkboard eraser at a student who is talking too much or is being disruptive in class? I had an elementary school teacher who wasn't extremely good shot with it with a chalkboard eraser I was got that several times for just talking in class Now when I say that I'm not an advocate of When I say that I am an advocate of physical discipline in the school classrooms or at home or out shopping for that matter I am not referring to child abuse. I Am referring about John. Would you like your additional minute? Yes, please. Thank you I'm talking about inflicting a light pain on the pupil to help him or her realize just a little bit better That disobedience just will not be tolerated and that swift punishment will soon take place I know this is not politically correct to talk about God and Christianity in the public arena but we Christians do want our country back and Since the United States of America was founded on Christian principles We want our freedom of religion our freedom of speech To we want the freedom to talk about our faith We are tired of the ACLU and their freedom from religion people telling us that we cannot display the 10 commandments in our government Buildings that we cannot pre out loud to the one true God The creator of the universe that we cannot play at school We cannot pray at school football games and graduations that we cannot talk about God in our government or in our schools Or in our workplaces that we cannot Send Bible verses in emails to our staff. Excuse me.  Thank you. Thank you Next on our list is Sam Guerin Thank you and Sam, can I have your home address, please? It's 187 maple drive And that's in And you will have five minutes sir. Thank you mayor Council, thank you for this opportunity to address you tonight I'd like to talk to you a little bit about the Proposed additional cuts for the Department of Public Works budget The the budget as it if it's cut further would be a 1.2 million dollar cut in the 2009 Public Works budget as compared to 2008 and my question is what important public services will be cut this time Sheboygan residents have already suffered many cuts to key public services in recent years For example, let's take a look at public work staffing There's been an unrelenting reduction in staff at the DPW since 1970 But this has been the worst decade so far From 1970 to 1980 12 of 207 positions were cut or six percent in that decade From 1980 to 1990 42 of 195 positions or 22 percent were cut From 90 to 2000 Only seven of 153 positions or five percent were cut But in this decade from 2000 to 2009 As proposed to you today with the additional five cuts 37 of 146 positions are 25 percent of the DPW staff However, the required work has increased Since 1970 the number of street miles have increased By 33 percent from 150 to 200 miles and the acres of parkland that these employees maintain has almost doubled in the period The public works budget Uh, despite dramatic increases in workload materials cost fuel cost that budget has risen very slowly since 1997 Increasing by 11.5 percent or about 1 percent per year While the police budget rolls 53 percent in the same period and the fire department budget rolls 46 percent in the same time period The the DPW provides services that are every bit as important as fire protection Police protection for example street maintenance Crack ceiling prevents the potholes that damage vehicles that keep swatter from getting under the pavement Causing additional damage preventing Road repair costs in the future The public works of employees have traditionally performed tiring of cracks and city streets between april first and november first to prevent potholes and buckling In 2008 the tiring crew was only utilized 93 out of 150 possible days And there were only two workers on the crew instead of the traditional four Making the crew less than half as productive as they usually are usually were I guess And then street repair when the streets do need repairing the public employees At the DPW perform the work preventing damage to personal vehicle and business fleets Since 2006 the amount of concrete poured by public works employees to repair city streets has declined by one third Showing we are not keeping up on the repairing of our streets What about our storm waters public employees clean out our storm sewer system to prevent flooding of businesses and residential properties Out of 33 catch basin cleaning routes only 3.5 were cleaned in 2008 compared to 8.5 in 2007 and 12 in 2003 Approximately 29,000 feet of sewer pipe was cleaned in 2008 compared to 38,000 in 2006 So we're really not taking care of the storm water system that prevents the flooding If we have another serious storm event like we had a Few years back. We could see some serious damage again What about our sanitary sewer system public Works employees also clean out our sanitary sewer systems to prevent sewage backups into homes and small businesses They cleaned 173,000 feet of sanitary sewer pipe in 2006 But in 2008 the footage of pipe cleaned fell to a 15 year low of 109,000 feet Cleaning up these keeping the sewage backup from happening protects private property and the inventories that the small businesses rely on What about parks maintenance? This is the first service slated to be cut next year Do we really want our children playing in weedy on-camp parks where refuse collects and bathrooms go uncleaned The cut in the public's works budget proposed for 2009 Will allow taxpayers to save approximately five dollars property tax per year on a hundred thousand dollar property How does that five dollars compare with the potential costs they face if roads need increased repair due to lack of maintenance If their vehicles are damaged or if their properties or inventories are damaged by floodwaters or sewage Let's not be penny wise but pound foolish A five dollar per year investment could save hundreds or even thousands of dollars down the line These types of investments are what make a city attractive to investors and families Excuse me. Sam. You're tying this up. Would you like your additional minutes? Please go ahead. Thank you It's hard enough to attract people to locate in urban areas without the blight that sends people off to the suburbs We're on the eve of an election day reminds me of a certain president. We had oh about 60 years ago when economic times were really tough. What did he do? Cut everything in the government or did he put people to work on the public works projects? Some of which like the Hoover dam are considered some of our nation's greatest accomplishments That's what fdr did when economic times were tough. He put people to work And I think we should follow his example and not gut government and the public services that make our city great But put people to work making shabuagan an even better place to live than it already is Sometimes taxpayers and their elected officials need to make small investments that pay off for us down the road We ask you to reject the proposed cuts to the dpw budget and send the committee back To develop a budget that will not further reduce city services. Thank you for your time. Thank you Next will be henry capotillo And henry can I have your home address, please? Yes, that's uh 16 19 north 38 street And that's in town of shabuagan And you will have five minutes sir. Thank you very much Before I get started, I'd like to uh thank the council and especially some of the council members that Have been working diligently with the police department on the cost saving efforts and also to do some of the uh the Early retirements and things like that. I you know, that's that in itself is come a long way for Previously on some of the issues that we had with the police budget and some of the problems that we had with getting getting The necessary resources. I think that the council is moving in the right direction I know that there are specific council members that have really have done a lot of work in that area I know alderman gisha alderman hannah I'd like to thank you for all your efforts and other council members that I haven't mentioned. Uh, I know that You've tirelessly worked to try to cost savings on the police department But yet at the same time to try to get more officers on the street And that's one of the reasons that i'm here today is that I know last Last council meeting that you voted for the early retirement and part of the uh The reason that you did it and I know that some of the council Uh Alderman were we're specifically saying, you know, if you want more officers on the street you you should vote for this this early retirement and I think that uh by doing that that you Pretty much said we are going to put more officers on the street and I'm here to basically say that I think that uh the taxpayers in the city and and Also other individuals should come here and should make sure that that happens And that the officers actually get put on the street And um, I know that I had talked to a couple of the alderman and they said well, you know what we've done our part But the police and fire commission are the ones that do the the hiring of these positions and something It it really isn't it isn't appropriate for us to be contacting them and to be Getting on their Their backs to do this So at times you come here to speak to the council But also to speak to the people that are at home And i'm asking for the the people at home to contact the police and fire commission and to make sure That they move on getting these officers on the street I I just heard that apparently the police and fire commission isn't even going to meet until december To talk about the possibility of what the procedure is going to be on hiring of these people When I think that uh, you can actually go and post these positions And actually go out and publicize this and you don't have to to be Be meeting and looking over and going over applications and that can come at a later date I'm thinking that if you really want to get A head start on this that you really should be looking at posting these positions And getting and start recruiting the necessary people that you need to do to replace these positions You had the the representative from police and fire association or the police Association that was here that also was concerned about making sure that the process moved on And that for for that to happen So what what i'm asking for the viewers at home is to contact The police and fire commission members and let them know that you'd like to see this to move on and to To expedite this and to get this moving and the other thing that that uh, I think we have great police officers in the city of sheboygan and Police staff that are administrative staff because uh, I've had contact with them. I know that Uh We have more than enough qualified people to be able to look that the police chief should be hired Within the police department. I don't think you have to go outside the city to be hiring a police chief I think you have enough qualified staff within the department To fill that position and i'm asking the people at home to also contact the police and fire commission Members and to say you know what It's it's right We definitely have enough qualified staff within the police department to be able to fill the police chief position and I think that One of the things that you do I know that when you're looking at going outside the department is if you have turmoil in the department Or there's special expertise that you need But you know what I think you have that already within the sheboygan police department You have more than enough qualified staff I don't think there's turmoil in the police department. I think that it's It's run quite well I've I've never had one bad incident with any police officer that I've had contact with Over the period of time that and sure I've and I've been pulled over I know that uh, it hasn't been lately, but You know what it I did not have a bad situation And the officer was very courteous Um, excuse me Henry your five is up. Do you want your additional? Yes. Um, I got a warning for burnt out taillight that I had to get fixed, but you know what never had a bad incident And the other thing I'd like to say is I know that I don't know if you're going to be voting on the The band for using cell phones today, but I think that's a good situation. I really do How many times do we sit behind somebody that? Is you you think that they're either intoxicated or whatever and then you find out you see them there on a cell phone I think that that is a good thing to do and I think and I hope that you do pass it Um, I think that uh, it would be a betterment for safety in the city And the other thing I'd like to say is it is really encouraging to see more people come to the public forum Uh, uh, one of the city employees was here to talk about the public works budget We had some other individual that was here Even though you may not agree with some of the things that these people say It is encouraging to be able to see that in this this council And I'll tell you what this is what's so important and is so fantastic about this country That people can come here and speak and not have to worry about anything. Thank you very much. Thank you, Henry And last on our list is paul ruber And I'm thinking you may want to move your mic up a little bit Thank you, and paul can I have your home address, please 508 boulevard boulevard All right, and you will have five minutes sir Your honor mr. Mayor council members Everybody here knows the danger of using a handheld cell phone while driving When we see other unsafe practices such as driving the wrong way on a one-way street or speeding Or driving drunk. We pass ordinances or laws prohibiting such behavior I specifically know a young man who's from shabuagan. Here's his picture In right here He's now a teacher in manna walk About eight years ago. He was in the back seat of a car with a seat belt on the driver Took a call on his cell phone and ended up smashing his car into a tree David the young man in the picture No longer has use of his legs. He's a paraplegic Numerous university studies have shown that talking on a cell phone and driving are equivalent to driving under the influence of alcohol And it increases your chances of having an accident by four times Our mayor wisely convened a committee to study the issue of using cell phone while driving This committee unanimously voted to ban handheld cell phones while driving and that enforcement shall be a primary offense We need a law Where people will continue to dangerously ignore common sense Other municipalities in wisconsin, you probably know Racine and marshfield Have recently passed ordinances prohibiting the use of cell phone While driving and this is happening throughout the country now throughout the world There's been some objection that this would amount to over regulating The argument being that you'd have to put a ban on People putting on makeup people shaving people eating while they're driving No The use the cell phones clearly stands out way beyond these other things I'm asking the city council And the common council members this evening to produce an ordinance That will prohibit the use of handheld cell phones While driving and that enforcement Be a primary offense Protecting the safety of the citizens of shabuigan should be paramount to you It's all their people Passing this ordinance would reinforce that I have talked to many citizens police truck drivers And they all unanimously want this ordinance I believe that Getting a number of cities to do this would make it much easier for terry van akron for joe ibam To then get a statewide ban on the dangerous activity As i'm pledged every day with the safety of the people I take care of I believe you are pledged with the safety of the citizens of shabuigan. Thank you Thank you to all the citizens that who addressed the council all in rehearsal Thank you. I'd like to ask that document 1539 be pulled forward Okay, let me let me go through the motions first and then we'll pull it out. All right. Thank you Consent agenda We have 15 one through 1514 I'm sorry. What what did what number did you want? I'm sorry. We can do that my apologies 1539 pull forward to uh item to be referred page Page five By all of them want to my audience sir repeating substitute Substitute a resolution number<PHONE_NUMBER> is amended and providing raises for non rep employees for 2009 All in rehearsal Yes, I'd like to make a motion to have this document filed second motion in second to file under discussion Under discussion. Thank you, your honor and we've Having been on the salary and grievance committee for the last number of years this issue is Has been there at the surface for a long time, but even At the council level that's been in front of us for the last four or five weeks or more As recently as this last council meeting we made a We made a move to pass a small increase along to our city employees There's just and I guess Going back even to the beginning of this year. I guess again being on the salary and grievance I saw this coming not only now but down the road and I presented an article from the shabuigan press which was printed in february of 2008 and that highlighted a study By the bureau of labor statistics that showed that state and local government employees earned on average On average 35 percent more than their private sector counterparts Okay Moving forward shabuigan press article october 12 2008 Again talking about the financial times of our constituents the people that we work for here in this council Talking about the number of people in poverty continues to grow and a significant Stories of young families and elderly people who continue to deal with limited controlled incomes And people in the county sadly enough choosing between health care food rent and and medical medical care And then more even recently the shabuigan press printed an article state families earning less october 17 2008 And this was a report. It was highlighting a report from the center of wisconsin strategy And they looked at a period of 2000 to 2006 and during that period of time they found That in wisconsin the the median income for a four-person wisconsin family was down Approximately six thousand dollars or over seven percent That's the again the median income for a four-person wisconsin family Compared to this to the nation to the nation The nation is down about three four three point four percent And then even more recently alderman bow did some nice work just analyzing Numbers here right at shabuigan city government and we looked at the average City employee city employee. That's everybody union nine union 5.29 percent increase There were approximately seven groups represented within those numbers in the ranges were from 4.62 up to 9.22 Percent those are average annual increases to wages again 4.62 up to 9.22 an average of five over five and a quarter To put that in perspective again He had also alderman bow could also wisely pointed out what the average shabuigan resident during during that same period was an average of 0.81 percent Which was really the the premise for the number that I presented at the last council meeting In which we subsequently passed as the shabuigan non rep pay increase 0.81 percent Let's put that in perspective. You had a 40 000 dollar income We had two people starting the same day one for the city one for the average city employer During a 10-year period The city employee let me back during that 10-year period a city constituent with that average increase would go from 40 000 to just under 4 000 43 712 dollars Okay, so growth of about 3 712 dollars now by comparison if I worked for the city started the same day with the same wage Of 40 000 dollars. I would now be up to 70 521 dollars That's a 5.29 annual average increase compounded year after year So you can see in that scenario there there's nearly a 30 000 advantage Just working for the city same Same day same Same starting pay so there's a huge disparity and I guess again, I've Been noticing this for some time and I think there's something that we need to do as a council And I think our time is now in addition to That disparity and pay let's look at things like health care cost The average resident in the in the state of wisconsin is paying between 25 and 30 percent of their premium share Of their premium cost the average city employee is just now getting up to approximately 10 percent So the again going back the average residents paying on average two and a half times the amount of premium Let's look at another factor Beyond the disparity of the wage is that's the impact of our savings The average constituent whether it be in the city of shabuagan the state of wisconsin or the usa He saw a decline in their in the retirement savings via 401k of 30 to 40 percent in the last year 30 to 40 percent Some possibly worse some a little better The average city employee has a little different scenario because we pay into the wisconsin retirement fund Saw an increase of approximately 10 to 12 percent during that period of time. So you've got Our constituents the 3500 that represent that I represented in my district going backwards 30 to 40 percent on their savings While the city workers are going up 10 to 12 percent Okay I guess in summary I I just want to point out to me. This is not personal I think we have a lot of good city employees. I've been now in the city government here for approximately Two and a half years And the more I get to meet The city employees I find that we do have some very good quality people. So this is not Uh, I guess this is not an issue where me of them trying to make things personal or trying to get even Because that's not the snare at all everybody here realized that we're in some of the worst economic times That this country has ever faced And with that combined with all the figures I just shared with you These types of increases 5.29 up to 9.22 in some departments Are just not sustainable the only way they are sustainable is to continue to put them on the back of our constituents who The shaborgan press pointed out saw a six thousand dollar decrease in their net Personal income over the last six years. So That snare just doesn't add up to me and and that is the premise for Myself asking to file that document Thank you Did you wish to speak on Alderman to my own? Oh Thank you your honor Thank you. Alderman for hassled. I know you've done some some good work on that and alderman bulk You've done some studies on that Now I didn't bring with me tonight the remuneration committee findings And I bring them almost every time and of course this evening. I didn't That was a committee that was formed about maybe two years ago Maybe two and a half years ago by the previous council And they studied the remuneration for the for the city employees Compared to the state compared to the other parts of the city of shaborgan Their findings their numbers were In some areas a little higher some areas a little lower But the salaries were on the average the same as private industry What the difference was was the benefits Absolutely the the municipal Employees had better health coverage and better benefits But their findings with the help of a wonderful Firm that they paid that knows how to do this very well their findings were that the wages matched The rest of the of the citizens in this area Thank you Alderman Sarrick your next Thank you mayor. I concur with everything all of my mayor said because I was on the committee for For the period of time it was it was active But my point is a little different at our last meeting we eliminated the the pay plan completely So for all practical purposes there is no pay plan for non-represent employees at this time Alderman Rahasso at the last salary and grievance meeting Suggested a new pay plan and there was going to be done at the next Salary and grievance committee. I'm I'm saying let's wait to see What Alderman Rahasso's recommendations are for the plan look at other paid plans before we move ahead with the resolution It's currently on the book. So let's let's have a structure to what we're going to do before we do it. Thank you Alderman Gesha Thank you your honor. I uh, I rise in support of filing this document, but probably for a little bit of different reasons Um, it was excellent point on the Renumeration committee. That is correct That salaries were a little up a little down depending upon department But benefits was the real kicker, but I got news for you benefits come out of the same checkbook as salaries come out of It's the aggregate number and the total number we have to look at in reality because that's what we have to pay so, uh I too believe we have remarkable city employees non-represented employees represented employees Um, and they will be getting as this council passed last council meeting a raise this year However Pentair industry is 150 employees will not be getting a raise this year They won't be getting a paycheck this year J. L. French employees will not be getting a raise this year. They haven't gotten a raise for two years The Kohler company layoffs now upwards. I believe of 150. They won't be getting a raise this year Because they won't have a they won't have a paycheck to buy Christmas presents this year It is the economic times. We're currently living in A person could have made a very a very good argument for a pay freeze this year We didn't we gave a small increase in wage And and I think that should not be lost uh on Not only our citizens but on our our uh, our non-represented employees front page article in the journal sentinel today The state of wisconsin investment board the folks who Managed the pension funds for these individuals in city government who the taxpayers pay roughly 12 percent Every year into for them has gone down dramatically because of these economic times They've announced that that money is they're going to come back to municipalities the city of shaboygon the taxpayers of shaboygon And asked for those monies to be accelerated and an increase in how much we participate With taxpayer money going into the state of wisconsin there will be increased expense for employees In 2009 some that we don't even know about when the until the schwebs state of wisconsin investment board comes to their final numbers So I stand in in support of filing The the salaried grievance committee has a it's a difficult committee. It's difficult work But they've had this issue two or almost three times It was sent to them that came back with no recommendation sent to them came back with no recommendation finding the council acted at the last council meeting and Through it's through the the vote and the leadership within this room passed a small increase where others will get no increase And we've solved this issue this issue has been put to bed Are we going to now have another resolution in two weeks of somebody taking the two and a half percent that's being proposed And knocking it down to one and a half percent. I believe the council's dealt with this We have a budget those numbers are plugged into the budget and we need to move on. Thank you All in bulk thank you, mr. Mayor I too rise in support of filing this document And I just want to be clear about some of the numbers that are being quoted tonight Those numbers come from uh from the shabuigan city department of finance Those are our numbers from our own internal numbers They do not include benefits the the numbers that I cited in my letter and that uh All the person for hassle decided do not include benefits. Those are wage increases This is not this is not to punish. This is not anything other than a realignment in my article. I wrote about how The way we've raised non-represented salaries is just disconnected from The local taxpayers ability to pay and I know in the unionized world They have all kinds of arbitration tools that can prevent us That can that can stall us from trying to keep it aligned with what our taxpayers can pay But with our non-reps we have the power to say look your salary has gone up twice the rate of inflation and that's what the numbers say Twice the rate of inflation every year since 1999 and I'd be happy to share these graphs with anybody. It doesn't And good for you. I'm a big capitalist. I I think everybody should negotiate every penny they can get I try to negotiate every penny. I think I'm worth and clearly I'm worth more than I'm getting paid Just like everybody else out there, right? We're all worth more than we get paid We come back to earth where people have to demonstrate their value every single day We find that the council acted last week to get rid of the pay plan Because after 10 years that pay plan was just too disconnected And what that salary and grievance committee said was I I don't think the intent was to solve that this year I think what came out of the resolution was that we would hire someone to help us write a pay plan That was more effective a pay plan that could be sustained for the next 10 years And that would in some way be connected to our taxpayers ability to pay Alderman Gisha has has done very well at pointing out How the city of sheboygan's taxpayers may not have the ability to pay more next year and I just want to make one more point And that has to do with Shoot I lost my lost my train of thought sort of comes down to is is We we've had this on our plate for a long long time again The salary and grievance committee couldn't couldn't decide this in a timely manner the council acted We've got a number that is affordable It is a gesture of good faith and in 2009 we can act to solve this in 2010 In a way that's more in line with our taxpayers ability to pay. Thank you Okay on a motion to file We call Excuse me Bauch Decker Gisha Hannah Heidemann Kittleson no Clowness Meyer Montemayor Rinflesch Ryan Suric Vander wheel For hassle and wongamon 12 eyes for nose motion carries Consent agenda 15 1 through 15 14 President hannah Thank you, mr. Mayor I move that all r.o.'s be accepted and placed on file and all r.c.'s be accepted and adopted second Motion in second under discussion There is none. Please call the roll Bauch Decker Gisha Hannah Heidemann Kittleson Clowness I Meyer Montemayor Rinflesch Ryan Suric Vander wheel For hassle Wongamon and boron 16 eyes motion carries communications and petitions 15 15 to be referred report of officers to 15 16 through 15 27 to be referred resolutions introduced three 15 28 By alderman montemayor accepting the dedication of property for public street purposes Alderman Montemayor Thank you your honor. I move that the resolution be put upon its passage Is there a second? Motion in second under discussion There is none all in favor say aye. Aye Any opposed? Motion carries 15 29 by alderman Meyer Montemayor and Gisha approving claim number 208 submitted by way of oral number 330809 in full Alderman Meyer Thank you your honor. I move that the resolution be put upon its passage Motion in second under discussion There is none please call the roll Decker I Gisha Hannah Heidemann Kittleson Clowness I Meyer I Montemayor I Rinflesch Ryan I Suric I Vander wheel I For hassle Wongamon I Boran I And Bauch I 16 ayes Motion carries 15 30 by Alderman Gisha Clowness Montemayor Bauch And Boran Amending the city of Sheboygan's investment policies Alderman Gisha Thank you your honor. I move that the resolution be put upon its passage Motion in second under discussion President Hannah Oh Thank you, Mr. Mayor Just two things. I want to commend the Finance Committee for Doing this It's so important that the investment policy of the city are reviewed on a continuous basis And I also do want to do want to comment that I'm very impressed with Terry Hansen and the work that he's done He took time out of his schedule to call me Ask for some feedback. I think it's just great that they're moving forward with this Any other discussions? There's none please call the roll Gisha Hannah Heidemann I Kittleson Clowness I Meijer Montemayor Rindfleisch Ryan Surich Vanderwill Verhasel Wangeman Boran Bauch And Decker I'm sorry 16 eyes Motion carries 1531 through 1533 Lies over 1534 through 1539 To be referred Alderman Montemayor Thank you your honor On agenda item number 1537 I would move to To suspend the rules Is there a second? Second Under discussion please explain Yes I will I think it does not need to go to plant commission again Plant commission has looked at this twice already And cell com needs the power To operate the police department cell tower But the alliance energy won't turn it on Until the common council says yes Okay Pretty simple explanation Thanks On the motion to suspend the rules we need a two-thirds vote A three-quarter Three-quarters, 12 Yes Turn it between only if there's some objection to that Only if there's an objection Yeah I'll take the vote Okay All in Call rule Okay Hannah Take the roll this time Just one Heidemann I Kittleson I Clowness I Meijer I Montemayor I Rinfleich Ryan Cirque I Vanderweel I Verhasselt I Wongamon I Boren I Bulk Decker I And Gisha I Sixteen eyes Motion carries Motion Motion to put it as a resolution Yep Put it upon its passage Yes please I'm going to move that the resolution be put upon its passage Thank you Motion in second Any discussion? There is none Please call the roll Heidemann I Kittleson I Clowness I Meijer I Montemayor I Rinfleich Ryan I Cirque I Vanderweel Verhasselt I Wongamon I Boren I Bulk Decker I Gisha I And Hannah I Sixteen eyes Motion carries Report of Committees 6 1540 and 1541 Lies over to November 24th 1542 and 43 To be to be passed Oman Meijer On 1542 I would move that the RC be accepted and adopted Your honor Motion in second Under discussion That's fine Motion in second Any discussion There is none Please call the roll Kittleson I Clowness I Meijer I Montemayor I Rinfleich I Ryan I Cirque I Vanderweel Verhasselt Wongamon Boren I Bulk I Decker I Gisha I Hannah And Heidemann I Sixteen eyes Motion carries 1543 by law and licensing Recommendant Denying beverage operators license Number 8049 Based on the applicant's failure to include all relevant conviction on the application The record as a repeat law violator The record the record of violations related to the license activity And failure to cooperate with the committee There might be one too many records there But that's all right All of them Vice President Boren Thank you Your Honor I move that the report of committee be accepted and adopted Motion and Second Under discussion Under discussion Your Honor is Brenda Kanabi here tonight She's not here Your Honor Thank you Please proceed Miss Kanabi failed to appear At our committee after giving After being giving two opportunities one by certified mail So it was a unanimous decision of the committee to Deny the application Thank you Vice President Boren There's no more discussion please call the roll Clowness I Meijer I Montemayor I Rinfleisch Ryan I Suric I Vanderwheel I Verhassell I Wongaman I Boren I Bauch Decker I Gisha I Hannah I Heidemann I And Kittleson I Sixteen eyes I Fifteen Forty-four Old Manhattan You wish to address seven Yes, I do Thank you Mr. Mayor I'd ask your permission to pull this away from being Referred to the Board of Parks and Forestry It's already been there Okay Need a motion then to I'd make uh then I would make a motion that the Report of committee be accepted and adopted Is there a second? Second Motion and second Under discussion President Thank you We have an opportunity here to do something truly Fantastic for a portion of our community Community that is underserved We have an opportunity to develop a park that'll be accessible to children of all ability This effort's being led by Ryan and Angie Shaw We already allocated one of our free days at the Blue Harbor for them to hold a conference on this I think it's just It's one of those good things that's going to put Sheboygan on the map Thank you very much Alderman Meijer Thank you Your Honor This has already been approved through Public Works And we discussed this at Park and Forestry last week Captain Wieser made it very clear that the location for this playground would be excellent for the city It ties into your water safety program Having the community down at D Land Park Also decreases the vandalism And he also stated that even though there are festivals down there They are not as attended as they used to be And as the Shaw's Angie Shaw has stated to us numerous times when she goes to these festivals It'll be nice for her to bring her her children Thank you And just a point of clarification We're not really In the true sense creating a park We're adding equipment to a park that we already have and we do that all the time But we usually have to pay for it In this case there's a group that proposes to pay for it And sometimes because of the busy people that we are we tend to be neglectful and not Provide the resources for other children And this is an excellent opportunity for this council to do so Any further discussion? Otherwise we will call a roll Meijer Right Montemayor Right Rinflaich Right Ryan Right Zurich Right Vanderweel Right Berhaselt Right Wongerman Right Boren Right Bauch Right Decker Right Gysha Right Hannah Right Heidemann Right Kielsen Right And Kleyunas Right Sixteen Ayes Motion carries Report of committee seven 1545 by law and licensing recommending denying beverage operators license number 7570 Based on the applicant's record of violations related to the license activity And the record is a repeat law violator Vice President Boren Thank you, Your Honor I move that the report of committee be accepted and adopted Motion in second under discussion Under discussion, Your Honor, is Juan Coronado here tonight He's not here, Your Honor Thank you, please proceed Mr. Coronado did appear before our committee on October 28th And after listening to his comments regarding his criminal background That was a unanimous decision to deny the license Based on his violations that were related to the license activity And his record as a repeat law violator Thank you Any other discussion? There isn't none Please call the roll Montemayor Right Renfleisch Right Ryan Right Zurich Right Vanderweal Right Verhaselt Right Wongerman Right Boren Right Bauch Right Decker Right Gysha Right Hannah Aye Heidemann Aye Kittleson Aye Clioness Aye Enmeyer Aye 16 ayes Motion carries 1546 through 1550 Lie over to November 24th Report of committee 81551 by finance Recommended approving the capital improvements program Recommended by the capital improvements Improvement Commission for the program period 2009 through 2013 And adopting the 2009 program for implementation With the following amendment to the program To remove the 266,000 in general obligation borrowing And the corresponding 552,000 total cost Of the salt storage shed All in Montemayor Thank you, Your Honor On the amendment to remove the money for the salt shed I would like to hear on the council floor Make an amendment to Put that salt shed money back into the original capital Improvements amount that was Studied a lot by the capital improvements committee And then the plan commission studied it a lot It came to finance and it didn't it wasn't unanimous To remove the salt shed from capital improvements It was three to two Is there a second to that? Second Second, okay Please continue And I think our department head Bill Bittner Has a safety and the judgment The safety concerns of the citizen and the judgment To guide us in the correct decision to get the salt shed Right now the salt shed is very old The salt on top is hard Some of it cannot be used And the salt leaches into the earth Every year that's on the bottom We have needed a salt shed for a long time Capital improvements this year Studied this, talked about it Put it on as one of their priority items Yes Alder and Montemire could we do it With you making a motion to accept and adopt And pass the resolution And then make that amendment please Would that be all right? Thank you, Susan Yes Okay And then who made the second on that motion I didn't hear Mr. Clayunas Okay, thank you Alderman McFly Thank you Mr. Mayor Actually that was my point of order I was going to two ways to see Is actually we have a report of committee We really can't amend the report of committee Is the committee is reporting back to us With the recommendations to adopt that So I commend the city court for the proper procedure As you know I'm a stickler for that as well Thank you Okay, thank you Alderman Giesha Thank you, Your Honor I've been kind of involved with the salt shed thing quite a bit A couple of comments Finance doesn't have to unanimously pass anything No committee has to unanimously pass anything So it's irrelevant It was passed by the majority of the finance Committee And here's the reasoning I know we have a lot of people who watch this And probably don't know what a capital improvement commission does What they do is they take basically pitches From all the department heads on all projects That are capital oriented In other words basically buildings and improvements And brick and mortar stuff And then the committee rates those individually I believe there's like seven individual committee people They individually rate those based on priority And based on how they feel The effect will be for the community And out of that comes your capital improvement program Of about $3 million every year So it's really a very interesting committee As it involves an actual rating system With no politics involved It's individual Nobody knows who's voting for what You come in, you have a workbook It's really very well done And organized by the finance department And out of that comes this program The amount of money is $266,000 For a salt shed But unfortunately the salt shed costs $522,000 It didn't make the cut financially So the process worked The procedures and following of the protocols Of the capital improvement commission worked And we happened to have $266,000 left over And the thought on that commission As I sit on that capital improvement commission Voted against this was to Well we'll toss that $266,000 in for a salt shed And then we'll pull some money out of the motor vehicle fund And then we'll do this And then we'll do that Well the problem is capital improvement Cannot encumber these other committees Or the finance committee Or this body For any future funds The idea of a capital improvement commission Is the project stand on their own as a whole That's how we always have done it I've checked back into the records We fund long term projects But they are an entire project This does not have funding for next year This is a We got a little bit of money Let's throw it in Let's find the rest of the cash And shove it in there I think you can make a case That a salt shed is a great idea I think Bill Bittner makes a case for a salt shed need The timing just is not good For spending this amount of money By the way this also lowers our bore wing By $266,000 for the capital improvements fund As Alderman Bourne had made this amendment in finance So it didn't make the cut If it made the cut it would have been $522,000 It didn't make it So the process worked And therefore trying to bring this in In kind of a half financed way doesn't work So that's why I believe it should be passed as amended Alderman Montemayor Thank you Your Honor That's pretty much what we were talking about At finance this back and forth However if for some reason The public works is not able to find The total amount of money for this very large salt shed That would guarantee enough salt for eternity A smaller salt shed Whereas this money would take care of that Is so much better than what we have now Alderman Kittleson You're next Thank you Your Honor I sit on the capital improvements committee as well And the salt shed did make the cut in my mind I thought it was an important thing to go forward with Listening to the arguments for it We need the salt shed We are getting cited from what I understand On a yearly So not being fine But we are being told that This salt shed This what we are storing our salt in now needs to be replaced And I think the cost here For a salt shed that will last 50 to 75 years Is well worth the cost that we are going to spend for this shed It will as we know the cost will get more and more with each passing year I think now is the time it did make the cut in my mind I think this is a good project that we should go ahead with Thank you Thank you Alderman Ryan You're next I'm sorry I'm scrolling I'm sorry Alderman Boren You're next Vice President Boren Thank you Your Honor I don't support the salt shed for 2009 When we're faced with possibly laying off five people in public works Because of budget problems I can't support spending this amount of money on a salt shed Last week I spent some time with Deputy Director of Public Works David Bebel Because I couldn't remember the layout of the salt shed So I went down and took a second look at it Because I hadn't seen that for about two years And with all due respect to all our person Kittleson Even Deputy Director Bebel had to kind of laugh and say that There's a DNR person who apparently has too much time on their hands To come down and talk to us about five or ten shovelfuls of salt melting And getting into the sewer system at the Public Works Department When we're putting 4,400 tons on the street And that's going into the sewer system Perhaps that if that DNR person had something else to do We wouldn't have a three billion dollar state budget for next year Also we are contracted for the winter of 2009 For 4,400 tons of salt And the way it works right now The existing salt shed holds about a thousand tons Which means in an average winter They have to fill up the salt shed about four times We're locked into the state contract At $48 for this coming winter It has gone up from past winters last year It was about $35 or $36 a ton But the Public Works Director and his staff Wisely got into the state contract for this winter I just cannot support it in this climate, budget climate And also there's a document that I referred tonight Document number 1519 Which possibly is an unfunded state mandate By our beloved DNR Which says it's a 2002 law that passed That says that all cities in Wisconsin Have to be in compliance With reducing their stormwater runoff In contaminants by 40% By the year 2013 Now unless the state backs off on that 2002 regulation My figures show that starting in 2010 We are going to have to bond An additional $2.3 million for 2010, 2011, and 2012 To be in compliance by 2013 The good news is Sheboygan, the Public Works Department Has done a good job so far When they've been doing sewers And putting in updated catch basins Oshkosh, which is about the same size as Sheboygan If you'll notice the chart in the article Oshkosh is faced with over $18 million Between now and 2013 to come into compliance So that's all the more reason that I can't support the salt shed I consider the salt shed a want Not a definite need, especially in this budget climate And with the possibility of having a $7 million Unfunded mandate that we're going to have to come up With the money for by 2013 Thank you Omen, Ryan, you're next Thank you, Mr. Mayor I'm not on the Capital Improvement Commission or on finance Therefore, I'm not a genius And either one of those fields, obviously But, you know, when I'm looking at this We have $266,000 That we are not going to have to borrow Under our Capital Improvement Plan What we're looking here, though, is The total cost being $522,000 That somebody is hoping to take out To find somewhere in the public works budget Obviously, that money is not there If we're talking about laying off Five or six public works workers There's a possibility of that Now, I don't think statutorily We can borrow money on Capital Improvements And shift it to public works payrolls However, if we are looking at possibly finding In their budget another $200,000 To make up the difference to the $522,000 I would hope in that budget, we can find a way To keep those employees and to keep the city services rolling So, therefore, I'm going to vote against the sultry Thank you Omen, Boat Thank you, Your Honor I was just going to reiterate what Older Person Bourne said In that it's a, I see it as a want When we talked about this in finance There are a lot of things that Sheboygan families want This fall and want for next year as well But Sheboygan's families are finding ways to cut back And live with what they've had And so I would urge my colleagues to vote in that spirit on this And not support the sultry as well Thank you, Your Honor Thank you Omen, Red Place Thank you, Mr. Mayor I came armed with three or four different points And I've heard three of them The fourth one I just want to add is A long-sherm view We are building a shed Or we would like to build a shed Worth 50 to 75 years Worth of use on there Within the city boundaries But not belonging to the city Are the county sheds that are located on North 25th Street As well I can't imagine that long-term 50 to 75 years down the road Those sheds will still be in the county hands As the city grows As the county focuses on their streets Outside the area I could definitely see working shared services with them If you will to use that area For the benefit of the city And the benefit of the county as well So I do see that right now It doesn't make sense to me to build one For 50 to 75 years when There may be one that we have access to Or can use within our locality already Thank you Olderman Verhassel Thank you Your Honor I'd like to ask Department Head Bill Bittner To come into the dialogue If that'd be all right Have a number of questions For him If that's all right Yes, Mr. Bitter Please step up Mike's on Thank you I guess just backing up a little bit Just curious as for the rationale For the new shed Was stated that There's a good case possibly out there I'm just curious to hear your words Or hear your thoughts on the rationale And if there are any savings Does result Last year Toward the end of the winter I received numerous comments From our citizenry And numerous comments From individual councilmen That we need to improve Our snow removal effort That wasn't acceptable last year That is the basis For which I put together a plan That didn't revamp all our snow removal efforts But attacked or tried to attack The weakest parts of it A big part of that Which will also be part of The stormswater permit Is managing our salt use And the most critical part We've got millions of dollars With the vehicles out fighting snow We use most of our employees Which also have millions of dollars Of budget each year Fighting snow We put together a huge effort to fight snow But the limiting factor When you look at things and how they work The limiting factor has been in the year I was here The terms of the quality of the product We can put on the street In terms of the snowpack And some of the problems In terms of safety In terms of accident prevention Is how much salt we had Last year We spent most of the year without salt Previous years we had very mild winters We didn't So the issue is not so much Do we need or do we not need a salt shed It's what level of service Are you willing to have on your streets Depending on what winter that is That varies dramatically with the weather That's just what it is The salt shed and the budget That was initially proposed Came from that report that I made About how to enhance our snow plowing effort It was based on attempting to have enough salt Available for a Worst case winter is probably not the right term But a very very bad winter Typically in the past years of mild winter We use about 4,000 to 4,500 ton The salt shed that was proposed Would be in the 7 to 800 ton In other words you'd go through that bad winter Because one of the problems with building a smaller facility Is everybody has salt Until you have the bad winter then nobody has it So if you do not have the ability to To address the amount for the bad winter You'll still run out at those times That our situation I think it was already cited up here We are able to store about a thousand ton You can't ever get in the situation Where it's gone You don't use a thousand ton Then order a thousand ton You have to constantly be fighting to keep that replenished In the mild winter it's always available In the bad winter it's not That's and that's where we are But that's the logic that went into it I do not believe it's an issue of whether or not We need a salt shed It's an issue of whether or not the services were provided Last year which would probably be very typical of a severe year Or adequately But the limiting factor is salt if they were not I'll move our household Follow-up question here Would there be any savings in the purchases? I mean as a result of buying Or taking receipt of more volume A larger volume of salt You have a huge amount of savings buying off the state bid We just received an email today from somebody who was Actually advertising their salt for a hundred and twenty seven Hundred dollars a ton We're paying in the forties for what we have So you have a system that buys in advance A system that buys in huge quantity Almost all municipalities in the state And has very very low prices And to take advantage of that system You have to be able to buy when it's available So you're not going to save from what we're buying Your benefits would be to have it available Because no matter how cheap it is If it's not available Cheapness doesn't mean anything And so it's really a level of service thing But you're not going to change the price Because you're already grabbing that very low price Or at least market comparatively low price So there'd be no whether it'd be a 500 ton shed Or a 5 million ton shed As long as we pre-buy The savings are in the pre-buying And it comes down to more of availability issues Yes, I think that's exactly right Alderman Ryan Flesh had brought up Just commented passingly about possibility With the county shed Have we looked into that over the last year About the possibility of sharing any of their facilities We've discussed it briefly with the county They used their salt sheds Like everybody else this year They're filling them all up in advance Last year we talked extensively with the county But they were in the same situation We were any salt they could get They would take any salt we had allocated at that time So salt was quite critical last year Very unique and high snowfall year They have indicated some preliminary plans To move out of their existing facility They have a relatively modest And aged salt shed in their existing facility Most of their new salt facilities Are spread throughout the county Which only makes sense They built them where they apply the salt So there might be some opportunity there But it would be limited Simply because of what their facility currently is This is the facility on the 23rd street side Is that right? Okay Alderman Montemayer just commented passingly As well about a smaller salt shed option As a possibility rather than the 522,000 Out of the facility Is that, did I understand that right? Is there a smaller option out there? If you base the size of the salt shed On my original proposal to the CAPTO program It was to build that factor of safety in If you visualize a salt shed for a thousand tons Where you almost always know you're good at Excuse me Need 44,000 to 4500 Anything that would double your capacity Or triple your capacity Would be a huge operational advantage Some of the issues is And most people there were a lot of salt sheds Built this summer But most were enhancing what they had I guess what I was asking And so, yes Just to clarify what a new smaller salt shed Be better than no salt shed at all Yes Okay And then what is the future use of the existing salt shed? What's the The existing building is not a salt shed It's a space in the existing metal structure It was originally put there as a gravel bin However, if anybody's been down there You can realize what the salt has done to the superstructure Because it's metal It also One of the to clarify the the dnr issues is Where you maneuver and haul salt Needs to be covered That's that's the theory It's not just whether or not some melted A salt shed needs a big a high enough roof To be able to dump a load of salt into it Ours you have to dump it outside Then shove it in the in the building Kind of a cave like operation It's worked it's been that way for many years I was wondering if there was a motivating factor on You already had a use for that old salt shed for something else I guess it's We're short of space It automatically becomes storage for many of the things that are down there and be covered Yes Okay, and then my last I guess my last question or comment is just that I share the sentiment of Alderman Ryan is that we have an issue of Cutting employees or buying a new shed and I'd I appreciate what you've said but I If worse comes to worse, I guess I'd rather hold on to the employees I don't know if that would if you'd share that same view That's a lot of questions. I'd love to hold on to the employees Public works is a Entry that requires materials equipment and employees If you get one out of balance You lose service anyway in the snow removal effort salt is out of balance right now So the number one way to improve snow removal is to make sure we got salt Now I say that knowing if you have a very mild winter you'll have salt Obviously in the bigger picture, we'd like to keep as many people as we can That's it. Thank you, bill I've got some lights popping up here, but I just want to make some points of clarification and information The first one being that the capital improvements commission did meet of Several times. I believe five or six times and there's seven people and there was a lengthy process of presentations questions deliberation And a subsequent rating system that was done The soul shed Did make the cut it wouldn't be before you if it hadn't made the cut Not only did it make the cut it got the votes with only one person voting against it Subsequent to that it went to city planning commission It made it again unanimously The issue uh is is a safety issue as bill has clearly stated Are we going to be responsive to the people's pleas for better snow removal in an overall program? As bill stated we can buy all the salt we want cheap now to save us thousands of dollars. Where are we going to put it? We can buy it not have it delivered, which is what we've done When the winter comes and this mother nature pounds us We own it on paper. You don't have it because everybody else wants it Everybody else needs the salt too. We're not isolated over here to where where they only was needing salt As for layoffs first of all I dare not even suggest nor would hope an alderman would suggest to Do borrowing and capital improvements To hire to keep people or to keep us from laying off people You wouldn't want to do that for a lot of reasons and one on being you you're gonna have to pay interest on that I believe the council's resolution Resolution or ordinance in this case says borrowing of three million not up to And we've done that just about every in fact with force. I know every single year We borrow three million dollars. We don't borrow up to or shy under this is why those adjustments were made in the capital improvements commission And it's for layoffs I've said before that I there was a last resort that I wanted to get into I'm working on the budget now we find refining the budget And I believe we've got it to where there will be no layoffs So we need not worry about that as far as a want versus a need. This is not a want folks This is a need And I want to hear about it again if we have a brutal snow because I'm the one who gets the phone calls I know it's a need I get the calls phone calls phone calls every single day We will continue all in bulk Thank you your honor. Um, I actually had a question for Director bitterner as well Bill Mr. Bitterner And while he's coming up if I could just ask your honor all the person geisha mentioned That And I think this might be what the difference is between made the cut or made the cut and didn't make the cut If it made the cut wouldn't it have been fully funded? I think what all the person geisha was saying was That commission only has the authority to spend up to a certain amount of money And that this shed sounds like it was at the bottom of the barrel and we ran out of money I mean they didn't have enough money to fully fund it and so therefore it didn't make the cut I think that's what he was referring to and so it was the last priority of the capital planning commission I think that's the point he was trying to make Is that a fair okay, uh, and then for director bitterner, um, so Would you prefer given that this shed is going to last somewhere between 50 and 75 years? And I don't know where that number came from, but it's a long-term investment Would you rather have a an inadequate small shed now? Or potentially wait a year see what happens with the economy see what happens with the taxpayer's ability to pay And then perhaps build the Taj Mahal of salt sheds a year from now Which would be the most prudent given that we're in this for the long term not just for the next year or two years Which would you which would you think would the best be the best spend of the taxpayers money? I believe with with the right layout we could stage a campus of salt sheds because that's what almost everybody has to deal with Um, the salt sheds. I've been building the past Have I've never been A a salt shed because we didn't have one so we started out meeting all our needs They've always been added too So I believe we can make a significant improvement in our operations with anything that would add Or double our capacity So a small salt shed now wouldn't be a bad investment given the long term No, we would never then not use it you would add two rather than Build your immediate need and would that be less efficient than just building a big one? I think the economies of scale would work That's why we propose the big one, but if you understand that Using your word whether you have a need or want we would go a long ways to meeting a need having some form of salt sheds Okay. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you, bill. I'm going to uphold the rule two twice for alderman Otherwise we're going to be here all day. Yes What do you need another question up bill? But I've got alderman clayton. This is next. I'm taking them in order twice per issue. That's it And two of you have already one of spoken types of my cleaners Thank you, your honor. I can concur with what you said in terms of the capital budget and the operational budget This is a capital item and we can't be talking about hiring somebody out of capital money. That doesn't work that way so If we are if something's going to happen with personnel and and dpw that can't be amended by capital money I do think that With the the cuts that are made in public works. We ought to do something To alleviate what might be a real cut in services and I do think that salt Is an issue That was a problem last year. Mr. Bittner's developed some Plans for how the salt can be more used more efficiently with the way it's spread But I still think that we need to have enough on hand and not just twiddle our thumbs And watch everybody drive through ruts for three days before the shipment comes through. I mean it was a it was a case and I do believe in prayer, but I don't think I'm going to pray for a mild winter I think that's foolish. I think that's I think we have to be What is it the the hair and the tour? No, no, it's nothing else One animal prepared for the winter one animal didn't And then the animal didn't ran looking for salt for the winter From some other city that had prepared. So I really think it's something like that as simple as silly as that I think it has some common sense to it Thank you Thank you. Thank you, mr. Mayer, and I do not have any more questions for mr. Bittner, but uh I I still like to address this. Okay. We we can borrow in capital improvements. We have an earmark of Three million dollars So what we're saying here is we're going to make sure we borrow all three million dollars because in the past We've always borrowed three million dollars. So what the heck let's borrow three million dollars. We don't want to borrow 2,740 some thousand dollars. We'll borrow the whole Three million dollars And then we'll build a smaller salt shed because it might do for a while But we'll have borrowed all of our three million dollars to me. That just doesn't make any sense Last winter was an extraordinary winter It was a winter that I haven't seen since I was a kid around here and I would not bet my Short-lived political career on this. However, I doubt this winter is going to be as bad as last winter And and to to to borrow the 266 thousand dollars for the sake of borrowing it because we usually borrow three million to build a small salt shed Um to me just doesn't make any sense at this point. So I'm gonna vote against this Thank you One of our heads on second time. Thank you. Uh, can I ask I have a question for department head vittner real Perhaps someone from finance can even answer this but These numbers that are floating around has there been any bid process or even quasi bid process? Where are these numbers even coming from? the numbers we developed were from Manufacturers of these facilities. Keep in mind. They're very unique facilities or fill facilities designed Specifically to store a very corrosive product So there's a number of manufacturers And the costs are pretty much relative to the size or the space you want to put the free span building's ability to To drive dump trucks around in them with the body raised So the the dollars we've used Are from specific quotes. We've got from two or three manufacturers at the time the original proposal was to meet That relatively bad case scenario The number that you can probably build one in the area A smaller one for in the 250,000 comes more from my experience having done such Okay, thanks. I have a question for you All right, thank you Bill Your opinion looking at the entire budget then that we can have the self that and the manpower to spread it That's what I'm debating in my own mind is can we uh, is it an either or scenario here because I understand budgets. Can we not shift money from one fund to another if we can't back over to dpw to support And Is it my opinion that we can still have the staff? Absolutely. I think and the solchette solchette You have to understand it's coming from a different pot. It's a borrowing. We have to borrow that money. It's a capital improvements program Okay, and to even suggest that just because we spent three million every year. We shouldn't be doing that There's always the city has always had needs. This is why we get a barrage of requests And this is why there's such a thing as a cut Because when they're rated Hand may make it and the other 15 or 20 may not so so we have more needs and we have more money And we have more needs than we had the ability or the authority to borrow This is why not long ago you you'll prove an additional two million dollars for strict, uh flood mitigation Okay Now again, and we're going to say we're not going to spend two million on flood mitigation this year because We don't need to just because we have it. Well, we've got a lot of flood issues here So again, we have a lot of salt issues here And do we have that the personnel? Absolutely. I think I have absolute faith and bill bedner doing his job And I I I hope that this not send a message to him that we're doubting his good judgment Okay, please call the roll I'm sorry, I'm sorry. You had your light. Yeah, okay Thank you your honor second time. Yes. Thank you and last hopefully for the evening Thank you to elder person clayunas and to yourself for Helping people understand that you don't use single-time money for long-term expenses In other words, you don't use capital money for employee expenses Just I mean we're talking about two separate things. That was very important to do those two but And I have ultimate faith and director bitner as well. I don't question his judgment, but I listened to his words He was tasked to come up with a scenario of Capital meaning whatever means necessary To cover what was an extraordinary winter season That it's was so horrible. We got to do something about it the way It was the city was covered with salt and plowing We had to do something about it. What do we what is that mean? Well salt check That's assuming the assumption that was made there was what that's that the city of shabuaga the department of public works Did a crappy job on the streets Last year and I don't think they did we sat in this room and praised them for the work They did with what they had to work with so I don't think they did a rotten job I know people get phone calls and mayor you mentioned you get phone calls and don't hold you accountable You're not the only one who gets phone calls We all get phone calls on this and I've said to them I think they're doing a great job and I think It's worth it's worth every dime. We're paying them. They did a terrific job in an extraordinary situation So if that was the task Given to director bittner was to come up with something to fix Uh, a crappy job. I don't think there was a crappy job I was very satisfied with the work they did last year and I don't think a salt shed is going to At this time is Using that amount of money is worth is worth Any sort of increase in the service we would receive like we did last year in an incredibly horrible Over the top one in a as alderman ryan called maybe one in a hundred years. It could be his political career on that one So it based on the tasking he he was given on this Uh, I and under the presumption that it was a it was a crappy job or they didn't have enough Whatever to do a better job Well, heck, I thought they did a pretty darn good job And I think we praised them in this in this room several times Thank you Actually my point's been taken. Thank you. Hold on McKittleton second time. Thank you your honor And again, I just say we came through with the capital improvements We with a positive recommendation for the salt shed. It came through city plan commission with a positive recommendation I think we should just we should go ahead and uh, just approve what the capital improvements has Decided upon thank you We will find out. Please call the roll Okay, I yeah, I will First of all, we have an amendment on the floor that we have to vote on the amendment is That the capital improvements to add back the 266 thousand in general obligations general, um borrowing And the corresponding 522 thousand total cost of the salt shed So an i vote would be to add back into the program. That's the amendment that's on the floor right now Okay, is everybody clear on that? Okay, rindflesh Ryan Suric Vander wheel for hassled Wongamon born Bauch Decker Gisha Hannah Heidemann Kittleson Clayunas Meyer And montemayor Six eyes ten nose motion fells Alderman montemayor Thank you your honor. Well with that motion failing then I would like to amend the resolution To include the 261 in borrowing and use that for stormwater projects in 2009 Okay, hold on. Is this a yes To include 266,000 for Yeah for stormwater Abatement, that's a that's a problem we're facing for many years ahead of us Is there a second Under discussion All by president barn of course Thank you, your honor. Could I have Somebody explain what those stormwater projects would entail for that amount of money? Is there bullet? Thank you, mayor and command council I don't have the list in front of me that deals with the flood mitigation projects But I know that you know, there's a variety of projects And if anything what we could do is add to the mini storms that we're putting in roughly we have 200,000 And we could increase that number So at a minimum that's what we could do with the 266 Okay, well we got I'm going to take them in the order. I got them All of them Ryan Thank you, mr. Mayor. I do not have any questions for Please pull that but uh, oh It seems to me here now we're throwing out stormwater abatement which stormwater abatement is a great thing It directly affects the citizens of the city But it appears to me that we're just borrowing for the sake of borrowing to the max capacity that we can We're going to get in the extra 266 thousand dollars and just shift it somewhere else I I don't agree with it to at this point, you know go from a from a salt shed To stormwater abatement which I have nothing against because I actually have people in my district that Still have stormwater issues That's why we we we agreed to to borrow an extra two million dollars for stormwater abatement Now to throw in that just because we need to borrow our full three million dollars for the year does not make any sense to me I'm going to vote against it Oldman brassel My question thinking on it my question was asked I guess but I did want to comment I've gotten a ton of requests over the last couple of years for mini storm sewer type things I mean, and I know that the wells kind of been dry there Every time we go to ask that they've been put on a long a long list And rarely dealt with so I mean I like the idea of going towards the mini storms They're not from the concept of just trying to spend some money somehow, but I think it's a very valid concept. So thank you Oldman bulk you next sir. Thank you honor if I could ask Paul added another just quick question to educate us really quickly because 266 thousand dollars in the grand scheme of things Is not a whole lot of money. So I'm trying to I'm trying to understand how that benefits I don't know what a mini storm sewer is and how many of those can you get for 266 thousand dollars? And how many people does that benefit please right now? We have a waiting list and then from that list what we've been doing is Trying to put in a cost estimate on each one of those projects And typically what you do is you go in and you do maybe three or four in an area And so we're costing those out and I know that we're not going to make it through that list with 200 thousand So we will need additional funding because those requests keep on coming in So are those just additional Storm sewers in people's neighborhoods where we chew up the curb install one and it drains into that and drains away They're smaller ones that go from the homes and then come in so that it mitigates the flooding in their in their yard Okay, that helps and so for 266 thousand dollars. What does that get us in ballpark rule of thumb? Does that get us five extra storm sewers as it gives 25? No, it could be I hate to guess but let's say it would give us at least another 20 Okay, so that's 20 citizens that could be double I think we're we're working through a list and some of them are more expensive than others So like I said without having my numbers right in front of me But I know that we could probably more than double the list that we'll have for 2009. Okay. Thank you. Thank you Hold on one to my oh Thank you, your honor. That's all I was going to say pretty much what what Um, miss it. Ms. Ender said is the storm water sewer abatement is on the capital improvements list. It's on the list Thank you. Hold on mcgisha Thank you. It's uh, it's actually a separate list if I recall because we we bond separately for storm water and uh I don't have any issue with the money going to the storm water fund actually the mayor challenged the department of public works and And paulette to come up with a very comprehensive list. So we're not creating something the mayor had already foreseen this This need and I suppose he gets more calls than we do is a central location on this So we do have a list to be able to To not just throw 266 thousand dollars at nothing. We have the The list has been put together and if i'm not mistaken all been prioritized That was shared with with the committee, uh the capital improvements commission And uh, and there is we ran out of money at the two million There are projects right below that and mary you can comment on that if you wish I believe you gave them the charge to come up with this We do have a document and and and numbers to uh to back up. Um, and it have been prioritized thank you Okay on the amendment, please repeat the amendment And paul roll the amendment is to include 266 000 for storm water abatement in the capital improvements program And I vote would do that Please call roll ryan sirk Vander wheel for hassled wangaman boran no bauk decker gisha hannah heidemann kittleson clayunas meyer montemayor and rindfleisch 12 eyes four nos Motion carries and that was it right took every care. Do you need the emotion? I need to have the original motion to accept and adopt and pass the resolution Did you do it sir? Let me see if I get this right. I make a motion to uh to accept and adopt as amended Is that and pass the amended resolution and pass the amended resolution? Thank you. Is there a second to that? second under discussion There is none. Please call the roll second here sir Vander wheel for hassled wangaman boran bauk decker gisha hannah heidemann kittleson clayunas meyer montemayor rindfleisch and ryan 13 eyes three nos Motion carries report of committee 9 1552 by public protection and safety Recommendant creating section 118 dash 11 of the shabuagan municipal code So as to regulate the use of mobile telephones and other electronic devices by motor vehicle operators president henna Well, thank you, mr. First I I move that the report of committee Be accepted and adopted And that I move that the ordinance be put upon its passage Motion and second any discussion Alderman wangaman Thank you your honor The issue of cell phones is an issue that's been Badded around a lot and I don't think there's a single person in this entire room or probably in our listening audience That doesn't agree that cell phone usage is a is a severe hazard on the road Our reaction to this was to come up with an ordinance however If you check the wisconsin state statutes 346 89 subsection 1 and I quote No person while driving a motor vehicle shall be so engaged or occupied as to interfere with the safe driving of such a vehicle this statue is Known as inattentive driving It's also a primary statute whereby an officer if you see someone talking on a cell phone can pull them over and stop them this Ordinance or this law was adopted by the city of shabuagon along with the entire motor vehicle code many years ago And it's there. It's on the books. It's there today and all it takes is enforcement. We don't need another ordinance. I'm not against Creating an ordinance to prohibit cell phone usage. I'm not for cell phone usage at all I I agree it's a hazard But when you define cell phone usage, you're saying this is a real critical issue This this causes accidents and I agree. Nobody knows that better than myself. I spend 28 years in an ambulance So I know what it means to have People smashed up in accidents And it's particularly A problem amongst teenagers because it's well known teenagers use their cell phones Probably a good deal more than most of us do But to pile a law on top of a law really makes no sense. In fact I've talked to many police officers and they feel the same way. They said we have an ordinance We have a law. It's in place right now today tonight They can go right out and enforce it if the department If it feels that it's felt the department is not enforcing the law properly, then we should perhaps Have a discussion with the chief to see what that has meant enforce this but this is an enforceable law right now today And it defines it very clearly To be so specific as to say a cell phone or other electronic Devices then there's all kinds of other things that figure into it also I mean, what about people put on lipstick or people who comb their hair while driving the other? Yeah, I saw a guy holding up a roadmap reading a roadmap. This is all covered under inattentive driving and again, I'm very much against cell phone usage and I think the Police department needs to be Encouraged to really become strict on this and it's a primary offense an officer can stop someone that he sees Driving and talking he can pull them over and issue a citation immediately. So I could not support another ordinance, but that doesn't mean I'm for Cell phone usage while driving it only means that I think we should apply the laws that are regular Already on the books and not Bring in an extra one Thank you Oldman sark Thank you, mayor. I just want to make two points one I'd like to have us reflect back on the comments that dr. Ruber made and early part of this meeting and And the concern that he has and what he's experienced, you know in areas of cell phones The other thing is that we all received a letter from lori lorenz I think all the council members did and just to let the you're in public know lori lorenz is the driving instructor For lake shore drivers school and she basically teaches our teenagers how to drive and and she brings up some very important points about the hazard of using a cell phone handheld cell phone while driving And she brings up a 10 Tragedies that occur directly related to cell phone usage and I won't read the whole letter or go through the Through each of these sad cases, but her her last comments Uh Says to us as to all of them I have been in contact with many many of the families of these victims and either the 10 victims that were involved And I have promised them that I would do everything in my power To get their stories out as well as work on laws Prevent any further tragedies from occurring Thank you for your time. I urge you to consider all that may be lost by people using their cell phones while driving If you have any questions, please feel me contact me. Thank you Thank you Well, thank you. Thank you, mr. Mayor um And I too am opposed to Both hands-free and handheld use of cell phones the more I looked into this issue The more I changed my own behavior I don't use a cell phone anymore while driving and I would encourage everybody not to whether it's hands-free Or handheld there's a problem with paying attention driving is a complicated issue And we need to be focused on it. I have talked to numerous police officers in the city of shaboy And they have all gotten back to me and said no, we do not need this the inattentive Driving statute Covers this we are well equipped to enforce this So they've asked me not to vote in favor of the cell phone ban They felt that the intent of driving already covered it Okay Thank you, mr. Mayor I agree with the comments that dr. Gruber has said First one said everyone knows that driving while using a cell phone is dangerous I don't think that anybody in this room doubts that so we've heard comments And no one believes otherwise But I do believe that his comment that we need a law Is Perhaps inappropriate because we do have a law as alderman longman stated 346 89 no person's while driving shall be so engaged or occupied as to interfere The thing the reason why I like the inattentive rule that's on the book already is that it does give the discretion to the officer It allows for the officer with their experience on the street their knowledge their experience I'm not an expert at public safety. They are And allows them to decide Is just the cell phone usage is the person shaving is the person reading the map What all constitutes inattentive driving and I'm afraid that if we just highlight cell phone usage We're allowing a free pass to others. We're we're enforcing one rule instead of enforcing them all and I trust the the professionals out there The professionals the police force that None of the uniform officers came forward and said this is one I all want to have So I'm going to go with their recommendation and say that I will trust their judgment to decide what is inattentive cell phone usage texting Changing cds talking to their friends Lighting a cigarette eating fast food. It's all up to the police officer to decide something that's that's prosecutable or not So I'll go with their recommendations and I'll support them. Thank you Thank you I didn't make many of the meetings that this was discussed at but I just have a couple of questions if Alderperson suric or somebody else could answer the ordinance Refers to electronic devices. Does that include gpses in the car iPods mp3 players? So you can't use a gps under this ordinance or your ipod or your mp3 and was it was it addressed as to Using a hands when you use a hand your phone hands free now. That's allowed. It's my understanding with this ordinance You still have to use your other hand to dial or answer it Anyway So again, I I'm curious as to maybe the background on that and what a uh, what about i-43? Would we need a sign when we enter the city limits of the city of shabuigan saying you can't use your phone and on the other side You can or on the off ramps. You can't but on the on ramps. You can I know that the city of shabuigan is responsible or has the ability to patrol a certain portion of i-43 I talked to the state patrol about it How do we deal with that just curious if those were vetted out through the discussions and committee Old moon, sir second time. Thank you, mayor The answer to paul with the gish's question. Well Assistant attorney chuck adams put together the ordinance. It was based on basically marshfield And when he talks about hands, we're not including gps hands free. You don't hold a gps in your Palm of your hand when you're using it generally run it on a dashboard. He's talking about basically handheld items which include cell phones and If you want older dvd for player in your hand, I guess that would apply too In terms of I guess notifying the public it seems to me that This this ordinance or this law is becoming very popular that As you go down the Illinois tollway, and I'm sure you've done that there's a sign that says, you know Doesn't know it's a cell phone city. She pointed does that city Chicago. I'm sorry New york city does not allow cell phones if you were to do a little research on on the issue You would see that it's a growing it's a growing item Throughout the united states and throughout the world. I mean there are there was numerous I'd say 90 percent of the countries throughout the world banned cell phone use while driving So there's there's something there. I mean it seemed to be missing the point that I I don't I don't think quite using a phone to having a hamburger which I'm saying is not good or having a cup of coffee Cell phone is particularly hazardous Procedure I think when you're because you're losing focus on what you're doing. Thank you And for a call I just want to make a point that Judging from the discussion that has been going on which I think has been a very good one. I think what the Citizen point and what all of them sort of point is to try to make is that although we have an attentive Statute that governs this type of behavior is usually a consequential type here You're trying to prevent the accident not trying to deal with it Or after it's happened and I believe I got that email too And I believe that that's one of the points that the individual was trying to make is that this is a good way to prevent the loss of lives or injury Because as soon as a police officer sees a phone they deal with it So usually I would go up in the 90 percent high 90s inattentive driving citations are issued after something's already occurred Oh my Ryan Thank you, mr. Mayor. Um, I was opposed to this in Public protection and safety. However, I voted for it to bring it to council Because I could not make up my mind how opposed to it. I was at the time Um You know, I I look at it as over regulation in a way Um, however, we all know how dangerous talking on a cell phone in a car is because I Bet most people with the exception of gene kiddelson here are guilty of it I had to say that because alderman kiddelson says she's never used a phone in a car before but most people are guilty of it And I'm sure everybody's been in a situation where you've been trying to fumble with your phone And and probably could have been in a bad situation Um, so I think that's you know from that point of view This is is probably a good ordinance I I have a 16 year old daughter who got her driver's license about two weeks ago And the first thing I told her to do was you better turn off your phone and it better be in the glove box Because the first time I catch you with it out of the glove box when you pull up to the house Is the last time you're going to be driving my truck Um, that's called Personal responsibility, which is another part of this people should have personal responsibility However, if you do have a rule out there that encourages your personal responsibility a little bit more I don't see it as a bad thing You know, I'm I'm you know, this is is one of those things Yeah, I I used to spend a long time on the road in the morning I'd spend an hour plus on the road sometimes an hour and a half driving around the county And I would get all my work done on my cell phone Um, so I'm very guilty of making a lot of calls on my cell phone and But you know, this is this is one of these things that you hate to vote for a big brother statue You also hate to to vote for something that's going to be another Another rule like prohibition Where the the rule is there and people just ignore it And everybody's breaking the law because they've always done it, but uh, I'm going to vote for it Why I I'm I'm I'm totally torn on this thing But for the the sake of my kids, I guess and and maybe I'll This way it'll teach me, uh Teach me personal responsibility myself when I have to do it Oldman Wagerman second time Thank you, just just one comment yet I'd like to know An ordinance is supposed to accomplish something we make ordinances because we want to accomplish something Well, I'd like to know what is this ordinance going to accomplish That we already don't have under the state statute. That's what I'm I wish somebody somebody hasn't answered that and uh, I appreciate Alderman and Ryan's concern for his children But uh, I have I have grandchildren. I happen to be just a few years older than you And I'm concerned about them as well. So but uh, what is this ordinance supposed to accomplish? I wish if somebody has an answer for me I I wish they would give it to me that the state statute does not already provide us. Thank you And please us Thank you, your honor I think the answer is that people will not use their cell phone in the car. I think that's what they're able to accomplish Um, is that because people it's not a law or an ordinance right now. It's buried within a You know a statute, um, but people don't know that Unless it's told to them you can't do this just like drunk driving People they need to be told you can't drive drunk They don't seem to have that common sense about it. They have to be told you can't drive drunk I think some people have to be told You really shouldn't you shouldn't be driving and using a cell phone I guess it's that's the purpose of the ordinance that some people need to be told They don't have that rule in their heads Thank you Okay, we are going to call the vote on 1552 and that's the ordinance that uh Creates the, uh cell phone usage Please call the roll Vanderbill Verhassell Wongamon Boran Bauch Decker Gisha Hanna Heidemann Kittlesen Clayunas Meyer Montemayor Rindflash Ryan And siruk Six eyes ten nose Motion six eyes motion carries. No six Six eyes ten nose oh motion fails My my apology here 1552 ordinance introduced 10 uh 1553 lies over Matters laid over 11 1428 resolution resolution numbered 1340809 by Alderman Montemayor Adopt in the neighborhood revitalization strategy area plan Alderman Montemayor Thank you your honor I'd like to make a motion the resolution be put upon its passage and I would also like to open the floor Okay, hold on. Hold on. Is there a second to that motion? Second Okay, second and then under discussion you'd like to make a motion open the floor to jan wilberg who has helped us come up With this wonderful plan. She has worked very hard and I understand it's a fairly short presentation Jan is not the permanent head. We do need a second to that motion Second any discussion on opening the floor all in favor say aye. Aye any opposed motion carries jan Would you please come up pull that chad Evening we will make this as short as possible But we do want to inform you about the neighborhood revitalization strategy area We have jan wilberg from wilberg community planning chad pelishecker economic development manager And what narca is is it's a plan? that Is under HUD and what hud does is they let you target on a distressed area You you set boundaries which we'll go through you can go in what it minimizes the red tape that we typically have with hud And then we can we go in we do a lot of research gathering surveys We had some informational meetings who come up with a plan We submit the plan to the comic council for adoption It then goes on to hud and then we can begin implementing if they approve it Implementing the goals that that we have laid out so we won't have any additional funding But what we'll be able to do is use our existing hud monies in a less restrictive manner in order to make a Significant impact on a distressed area So let me begin. Thank you Okay, thank you very much There and council members. Thanks for having us tonight. We're going to do this very briefly You received a copy of the plan. I believe at your last meeting So all of the detail is there. So if the slides go by pretty quickly, you'll know that you can find the detail in the actual plan The required elements of a narsa the neighborhood revitalization strategy area hud requires that you do certain things and all of these things were done in sheboygan We identified a targeted area We convened a stakeholder committee that had about 26 representatives We conducted an assessment developed goals and objectives and very specific performance measures that are going to be used in the future To assess progress Chance going to just briefly walk you through the boundaries of the targeted neighborhood For those of you that have been at the meetings, you've kind of heard this before but the boundaries On the map on the left. You'll see it takes on the census tract number five Which is kind of in the city center area This was actually going to be focused on from 9th street to 14th and then from eerie Up to superior but hud wouldn't agree to those boundaries because of the census numbers So they made us expand it out and we're actually on the south side Um, we're near center avenue all the way to superior and then that chunk to the far left is same in avenue And then we're taking it from 9th street all the way to 14th street It's a very big area and it's you know, it's going to be a huge it's a huge area undertaking But what we've done in the plan and jannel describe it more is divided it into service sector areas And we've divided down to five areas and each year We're going to focus on each one of those areas and you know try to really make an impact in them So I believe our first area is the kind of distressed the mostly distressed area of this area Which is the 9th street to 14th and like Ontario up to superior. So that block is going to be our first Part of this thing that we're going to really focus on in the next couple years HUD requires and that the targeted neighborhood meet an income standard in this neighborhood does 64.5 percent are below the HUD low moderate income level, which is 80 percent of the county median incomes around 40 000 It has to be primarily residential and certainly is Has a high proportion of runner occupied units and a lot of very old housing stock As part of our planning process the stakeholder committee that was put together Went through a process of identifying assets and challenges And in terms of assets just very briefly location as sort of an entryway to the downtown The economic potential that could be realized by the high traffic and by the existing businesses and the recreation That's already in the area and the character, you know older homes sometimes have Housing issues, but they'll often have historic value at the same time So many assets identified in the neighborhood But it wouldn't be targeted for this kind of special treatment if there weren't challenges and the challenges Identified by the stakeholders fall into these three categories the general appearance That it's not a good good looking entryway into the city the condition of housing Boarded up windows Declining housing stock a lot of absentee landlords. This was stressed a lot and issues facing the residents themselves High incidents. This was from the perception of the stakeholders of alcohol and drug abuse A lot of turnover residential turnover people moving in and out And and from law enforcement. We heard a lot of late night policing Issues of drug dealing behavior issues We followed up on the stakeholder Input with a neighborhood survey which was conducted on a saturday morning in may We had 18 volunteers several alderman participated as volunteers in this survey We interviewed face-to-face 160 People and we used the results to really help us understand more about the neighborhood And I'm not going to go line by line here. I just want to draw your attention top Problems crime drugs and violence and then right next to it people not wanting to get involved in neighborhood improvement So people really saw those things Sort of hand-in-hand and then you see the abandoned run-down buildings and some of the other issues falling down behind those top two On the asset side, you know when you ask people to identify issues and they certainly did We also asked them about their level of satisfaction in the neighborhood This is how you know There's something to build on in that neighborhood because a significant proportion of people are happy in the neighborhood And they may have to move but most of them 56 plan to stay That's your core of neighborhood change are the people who are happy satisfied and intend to stay We ask about employment problems. The NARSA has to focus on economic issues employment and housing So we ask about employment problems. What problems are you experiencing and finding and keeping a job? A lack of jobs in the neighborhood and then To a much smaller proportion not having child care disability lack of transportation There are a lot of barriers, but they don't they don't actually affect a huge number of people But that lack of jobs in the neighborhood was identified as the number one issue We asked about level of education now. This is sort of a two-sided coin 19 haven't finished high school At the same time you have a good number of people who 29 plus the eight plus the one who are Who have attended college or have completed college? So you've got sort of both ends of the spectrum in that neighborhood Economic issues we asked people to tell us their income Before taxes and we did have about 10 who didn't want to answer that question But here you can see that the neighborhood is Low income most household incomes were under $40,000. This is consistent from what we knew from the census We also asked whether Anyone in the respondents family participated in a public benefit program And this was an area where there was kind of a big surprise because one out of three people that we talked to Out of that 160 were involved with um ssi or ssdi which are both programs that support people with disability So disability issues are big issue in that neighborhood And to a lesser extent food stamps Medicaid badger care some of the other programs are also utilized, but to a much lesser extent than ssi and ssdi So this brings us to our goals What we did With a stakeholder group was to bring back the survey results Sit down with that group and establish some key areas that needed to be addressed with this NARSA plan And out of that identification came the four goals That are included in the plan and then they're detailed with specific objectives And when you look at the the full plan you'll see those objectives spelled out The first goal is to significantly improve the quality of housing through enhanced code enforcement and investment in housing maintenance and rehabilitation The second is to address improve the economic well-being of the neighborhood by encouraging business development that will generate jobs for residents The third is to improve the quality of life in the neighborhood through efforts to improve public safety and increase community involvement You can see here. We're really trying to attack all of these Highest priority issues that were identified both by the stakeholders and the residents And last is to continue to invest in city infrastructure within the NARSA I know Chad wanted to speak more specifically about some of the activities that would be included under each of these goals Oh, and you want your microphone back? Under this under the implementation part of this we're going to try to take some of our existing funds And reutilize them out of the housing rehab program And do a five-year type forgivable loan to do facade improvements and landscaping of the houses That would be a new program. We're going to try to get off the ground Well, if this is approved by HUD and to try to make quick results of what is happening out there We're also looking at some other business development loan Packages to try to encourage new business startup and expansions Working with the gateway neighborhood Association that's been having troubles getting people involved in the neighborhood So under the sustainable neighborhood association We're going to try to implement that to get more people that are happy to be in this neighborhood But also to take part in the neighborhood And the feeling is is if we can get the people to have a sense of community They'll respect that and hopefully clean up the neighborhood And then we've also identified infrastructure improvements, you know streets The actual street infrastructure Additional lighting. We've done that in some other areas of the city We're going to look at expanding that street lighting and also working on House lighting as well. So if the people applied to us for one of these new program Loans they would be required to maybe put a Motion or a dust of dawn light on their house so that we get more light in the neighborhood to deter the stuff That's happening in the evening So we've HUD requires us to set up five year outcomes and then every year we have to report to them on our accomplishments Once we get them to hopefully get them to approve this plan after Hopefully you guys approve this plan We can start implementing these programs in our 2009 calendar year with the you know assumption of trying to make some differences in the neighborhood So with that we'll open it if you guys have any questions for us. Otherwise, we would encourage you to approve this plan That is before you tonight. Thank you Thank you, mr. Mayor. Can we just go back to the slide where you canvass the neighborhood on social services Go by how you just passed that that one there. Just to help me understand the the the data What you're saying is that 33 of the people were supplemental Social security income or disability They could also be participating in other of these plans. Oh, correct. Yes indeed So they wouldn't add up to a hundred. Thank you Thank you Chad, thank you for a job well done chad you too paulette wonderful. I'm glad to see this program take off and Okay, we went along we're on uh 14 29 Oh, no, we need to vote on 14 28. There was a motion in a second to put the resolution upon his passage Is there any other discussion? Vice president borne. Thank you, ronner I just wanted to ask Maybe this was covered and I missed it. This is only this is the first of many neighborhoods that we're going to be doing This project down. I'm very anxious to see it down on my on the seventh district on the on the near south side I think it would be just huge for that area Good point. Oldenborn, uh, you will recall that I I talked about three Narsas first one being where it's at now Second one being up in the Kentucky area in your district the third one being in district, uh, two Where I used to be an older man that's behind the y and all that area there that needs some need some attention Obviously, it's it's a plan. It's a long-range plan. It takes a lot of a lot of planning a lot of thought and Leveraging of cdbg money But we're right on track and it's working and as I said jen has done an incredible amount of work And we're very grateful for a good job. Well done chad and you and paleto Okay Please call the roll for hassle Wongamon boran Bauch Decker Gisha Hanna Heidemann Kittleson Playunas Meyer Montemayor Rindflash Ryan Surik and Vanderwheel Sixteen eyes Motion carries 1429 resolution number 130 508 0 9 baul mungisha clayunas boran bauch and montemayor Authorizing a transfer of appropriations and a 2008 budget establishing appropriation for contribution from the west band marching band to the police department Revenue and appropriation for mead library library website Appropriation for mead library operating expenses all mungisha Thank you. I move that the resolution be put upon its passage Motion and second under discussion There is none. Please call the roll Wongamon boran Bauch Decker Gisha Hanna Heidemann Kittleson Playunas Meyer Montemayor Rindflash Ryan Surik Vanderwheel and for hassle Sixteen eyes Motion carries 1444 general orders number 650809 by old man hannah rindflash ryan heidemann and kittleson Relating to traffic signs and signals so as to add a stop sign on south 10th street for northbound traffic at greenfield avenue President hannah Thank you, mr. Mayor. I move that the ordinance be put upon its passage Motion and second under discussion There is none. Please call the roll boran Hi Bauch Decker Hi Gisha Hi Hanna Hi Heidemann Kittleson Playunas Hi Meyer Montemayor Rindflash Ryan Surik Vanderwheel for hassle and Wongamon Sixteen eyes Motion carries 1445 general orders number 660809 by Alderman Montemayor Surik Meyer Decker and for hassle amending the municipal code So as to delete the position of deputy fire inspector from the fire department table of organization Alderman Montemayor Thank you your honor. I move the ordinance be put upon its passage Motion and second under discussion There is none. Please call the roll Bauch Hi Decker Hi Gisha Hi Hanna Hi Heidemann Kittleson Playunas Hi Meyer Hi Montemayor Hi Rindflash Hi Ryan Hi Surik Hi Vanderwheel Hi for hassle Hi Wongamon Hi and Boran Hi Sixteen eyes Motion carries All that matters authorized by law Attorney McLean Thank you your honor 1553A is an R.O. by the City Clerk Submitting Sporganary School District Tax Levy Certifications to be used in 2009 That goes to finance 1554 is an R.O. by the City Clerk Submitting Various License Applications for the period ending June 30 2009 and June 30 2010 That goes to law and licensing committee 1555 is an R.O. by the Finance Director Treasurer As part of the budget process The attached listing of the estimated unreserved fund balances at December 31 2008 An outstanding debt as of December 31 2008 is submitted for your review That will lie over to the November 24th 1556 is a committee report by the Finance Committee Indicating the Finance Committee is reviewed The committee reports from Public Protection and Safety, Law and Licensing Public Works and Salary Grievances And recommend approval of said reports with the attached amendments That lies over to November 24th also 1557 is a resolution ordering the 2009 Budget Appropriations for the City of Sheboygan Funds That goes to finance 1558 is a resolution ordering the 2009 Budget Appropriations and the 2009 Tax Levy for use during the calendar year 2009 That goes to finance Thank you Attorney McLean Motion to adjourn I move to adjourn All in favor say aye Then adjourn