I think it's about time to get started. Thank you all for joining us at our full 2020 CNI virtual member meeting. You're in the second day of the first week of project briefings. And I'm Cliff Lynch. Let me welcome you to this one very briefly. I will mention we have chat going. And please feel free to introduce yourself, if you like, or to comment as we go along with the presentations. At the bottom of your screen, you'll also find a question and answer tool, which you can use to pose questions at any point during the presentations. We will deal with all of the questions that come in in a moderated Q&A session at the after the presentations, which will be moderated by Diane Goldenberg Hart of CNI. I'll also mention that the session is being recorded and will be subsequently available through our usual channels, and that closed captioning is available if you would like to make use of it. I think that's everything I need to summarize for this, so let me just briefly introduce our speakers. We have two presenters today, Lori Taylor and Brian Keith. Both are with the University of Florida. And what they're going to talk to us about today is a project called the Digital Library of the Caribbean. And specifically, they're going to talk about the interplay of management and technical practices that deal with equity and governance kinds of issues in a very complicated, multi-stakeholder situation. And I think this should be quite an interesting presentation on a challenging problem. With that, welcome. Thanks for being with us, and over to you, Lori. Thank you so much for that lovely introduction, and thanks so much for having us here today. So good afternoon, everyone. I'm Lori Taylor, and I'm here with Brian Keith. We're excited to be speaking with you today about the Digital Library of the Caribbean, or D-LOC, and its use of technical and management practices to enable equity. We feel this is an important example of digital information technology, advancing scholarly communications, and enabling intellectual endeavors. So for our talk today, we'll cover the Digital Library of the Caribbean, or D-LOC. We'll cover libraries and colonial operations, and then we'll cover D-LOC's operations, which are post-custodial about mutual aid, polycentrism, collaborative pluralism, flow archives. We'll discuss organizational design and technical development. It's a pleasure to join you guys today. In today's talk, we're presenting D-LOC as a model for how to use technical and management practices to enable equity and increase organizational effectiveness. But to begin with, what is D-LOC? The Digital Library of the Caribbean, or D-LOC, is an open access digital library of Caribbean and circum-Caribbean resources. It provides access and preservation for materials from archives, libraries, museums, and private collections. D-LOC seeks to leverage the work for preservation and access to build community and capacity. D-LOC fosters diversity, equity, and inclusion. Partners support each other and their international community of scholars, students, and other people. D-LOC surpasses many commercial collections in size and scope, totaling 3.6 million pages, over 3.6 million pages, I should say. And it includes oral histories, newspapers, official documents, ecological and economic data, maps, histories, literature, poetry, musical expression, videos, and artifacts. D-LOC is a significant resource for teaching, research, and cultural and community life. In D-LOC, partner institutions define shared goals to support joint directed action and procedural justice. This is achieved through inclusive and distributive collection development with local level rights retention and collection development decision making. With the University of Florida serving as content host, but with the authority of a regular partner and digitization and metadata creation residing at the partner level. The result is a community of practice with increased capacity for collaboration and through collaboration. D-LOC is effectively a case study in the positive disruptive capacity of technology at a time of need. Its development has been informed by an awareness of the historic colonization of library collections. This represents an important departure from historic models. And D-LOC was born of Accurl. Accurl is the association of Caribbean University research and institutional libraries. Accurl was founded in 1969 amid fights and wins for independence for Caribbean peoples. Libraries created Accurl, recognizing that people need access to the people shared experience and past through media and that creating, disseminating and preserving culture and information should be done by the people, not the former colonizers. Experts in the Caribbean created Accurl for local needs and those for huge diasporic populations. In 2004, Accurl members founded D-LOC. The then director of the University of the Virgin Islands libraries, Judith Rogers, led the drive to create D-LOC. She was responsible for supporting University of the Virgin Islands students with campus locations on three islands in St. Croix, St. Thomas and St. John, where transport is by ferry or by plane. And just to note, Judith is my hero. She's the one who I modeled that and learned how to be a librarian from. So Judith and her Accurl colleagues recognized that any of their core communities span vast geographic areas and that the internet, if wielded by community stakeholders for their needs with a platform designed by actual stakeholders, had the potential to better support immediate local needs and important needs for broader communities. At the same time, partners throughout the region recognized that accessing each other's materials would continue to be difficult and all D-LOC partner institutions faced problems with preserving our materials because of our tropical climate. They then and now a much bigger we have also recognized that we needed to work together to identify, share and preserve materials. And so D-LOC was launched because the community recognized the point where technology had evolved to the point where it was prevalent and it was predicted to become more affordable. At this point, technology could support stakeholder needs as defined by the communities. It should not be lost on us that librarians were at the fore recognizing these needs and opportunities. And the librarians recognized that the technology was at the point of what EF Schumacher termed appropriate technology where it could support local production from local resources for local use. And these are some of the underpinnings for D-LOC. Other relevant practices and concerns include the rule of least power, which suggests we should use the least powerful technology suitable for any purpose, specifically technical languages and minimal computing where we seek the least powerful systems and methods to meet our needs. In explaining the importance of D-LOC's use of technical and management practices for equity, we need to consider library related colonial practices. Colonialism, according to Merriam-Webster dictionary is quote, control by one power over a dependent area or people or a policy advocating or based on such control, end quote. The latter part of the definition is the most relevant for cultural heritage institutions. This short definition belies the vast complexity of oppression and abuse with colonialism, which extends to mindsets and worldviews. The dynamics of colonialism apply to the treatment of less powerful groups within one country or across borders. Examples of heritage and information colonialism and of technologies are prevalent. Lori and I are fortunate to work with the University of Florida colleague, Marguerite of Argus-Pentoncourt. She's the Latin American and Caribbean Special Collections Librarian at the University of Florida. She recently described the processes of colonialism represented in archives. Empires use extensive record keeping to control their colonies. They use classificatory systems to ensure the hegemony of a small group of European colonists over others. And the US also became an intellectual hegemonic power in part by collecting or removing Latin American and Caribbean cultural heritage. This is the application of a desperate power to determine what is known, recorded and preserved. So creating DLAC, the founding partners put forward a model for a digital library that was polycentric and based on principles of shared governance for collective action for the common good and mutual aid. Some of us we've already covered. The partners would determine the materials to digitize and work together to digitize materials for open access and long-term digital preservation. Partners would be the ones to select materials from their collections, no top-down mandates. And partners retain all rights to their materials. They're only granting permissions to share the materials through DLAC for access and preservation. In all of this, partners emphasized that digitization and digital library work had to be part of a larger mission for building the community and developing capacity for stakeholders. How do we use this preservation and access work in order to do something more? So in all of this, theories and worldviews that underpin DLAC include shine theory. If you don't shine, I can't shine. Mutual aid, how do we both bring things to the equation for something better for all of us as individuals and collectively? Ethics of care, knowing that emotion is always part of the equation. Theories already mentioned appropriate technology, minimal computing, also looking at maintenance. How do we ensure that our systems are maintainable and sustainable? And procedural justice, informational justice and the triangle of satisfaction, ensuring that we're doing things the right way so that everyone is supported in their process. And all of this also relates to solidarity as we come together. So in establishing the DLAC model, partners created DLAC as a polycentric system based on mutual aid and generous thinking. As described by Eleanor Ostrom and Charlotte Hess, polycentric refers to the systems and processes designed so that, quote, there will be decentralized alternative areas of authority and rule and decision-making, end quote. Margaret Heffernan described this collaborative pluralism as quote, lots of different solutions applied and devised locally by those with an immediate and personal investment. Left their own devices, individuals can create solutions together that are superior to those imposed by external authorities or managing agents, end quote. Heffernan describes Ostrom's assertion of, another quote, so start quote, the absolute requirement of trust, the sharing of resources and denial of dominance. We thrive when we acknowledge our mutual dependency, end quote. Polycentrism with the acknowledgment of mutual dependency connects with the concept of mutual aid. These concepts are core to DLAC and to the model that we're trying to describe. So how do we enact these principles? For our technology work, we have to have processes to support our mission and our workers, including how we structure our work for collaboration to enable engagement, equity, and inclusion. At UF, which is the technical host for DLAC, we do this on our programming teams through things like Agile, which is another philosophy for how to work, and scrum is an applied method, where we develop methods and solutions through the collaborative effort of self-organizing and cross-functional teams with our collaborators and end users. As you can see in this diagram, Agile and scrum allows us to define our needs and to support them, focusing on the folks involved in the work and for our broad communities. Done right, Agile and scrum allow for prioritization of the most needed work and allow processes to follow from our shared needs and ways of working. And to be done in the manner that we need. Agile's about making it work and empowering the folks who do the work. And working with DLAC, we've seen time and again that the best ways of working are those that enable all of us to have meaningful work and to build together. Where Agile and scrum can be just another way to roll out projects, they can also be part of a bigger framework for enabling equity. For example, scrum defines processes and roles so that we can celebrate and build from each person with many ways of contributing, including project owners, project stakeholders, project workers and larger stakeholders as with our communities. Scrum also requires acceptance criteria. We have to know when a project is done and accepted in order for us to be accountable to our communities. Scrum also allows us to manage complexity by structuring work as iterative and incremental. This allows us to deal with exterior complexity and internal volatility. Priorities will always change. By defining our roles, process schedules, we can work better together and we've done this in D-Lock for our programming work to develop our systems as well as for developing different practices and workflows. As a single example of many, the number one obstacle to Agile and scrum is management where managers want greater control often without being directly involved or impacted in the work. That negatively impacts work product and working conditions. As managers and leaders, when we work from spaces of mutual aid and generous thinking, we get to and we have to allow for the spaciousness of trust to allow workers to work. And that means sharing the labor and sharing power. D-Lock is a case that illustrates important socio-technical governance principles. As Lori described, these principles translate to technology work. All of these concepts relate to and can be informed by important management theories. These include theories of motivation which dominated social, organizational and industrial psychology from the mid 20th century on. Critical work in these areas came to be categorized as needs theory. The three foundational needs theories works are represented in this figure. You may be familiar with all or some of these, but the works build upon each other. Maslow's needs hierarchy theory may be the most well-known. It provides a hierarchical framework for physiological to social to broad categories of intellectual needs. Herzberg's motivation hygiene theory is an elegant theory with two dimensions. Satisfaction, which are described as hygiene needs and dissatisfaction, motivational needs. Motivating factors, including recognition, achievement, responsibility and work characteristics are required for sustained motivation by workers. Deficiencies are detrimental. McClellan's need theory is the third. Motivation comes from needs for achievement, power and affiliation. Power in this instance is a desire to control others. This is a drive or motivation which is mitigated in the frameworks we are discussing today. Need theory and a range of others which are employee centrics and based on employees understanding of the environment in which they are positioned have been foundational in the modern management theory. Concepts like perceived organizational support have arisen. POS is the employee's perception of the organization's attitudes towards them. POS is valued as an assurance that aid will be available from the organization when it's needed to carry out one's job effectively and to deal with stressful situation. Critical contributors in this area are self, America's and Schrader. Justice and management theories is conceptualized in several different forms. Distributive justice, how resources including awards are allocated and procedural justice which is based on judgments about transparency, consistency and other values reflected in or in some cases not reflected in, how organizations operate and how decisions are made. Based on the work of Brockner, Korsgaard, Folger and others, we know perceptions of fairness are increased by sharing information including advanced notice of changes showing respect for individuals, openness and consideration for participants concerns and providing opportunity for inputs that can affect ultimate outcomes or in another word voice. The work in this area, expanding on these theories and concepts to inform work culture and to achieve success through sustaining employee motivation through progressive work cultures and constructs is obviously ongoing. Many of you will be familiar with the work of Deetta Jones. Deetta is a very influential library consultant on equity, diversity, inclusion and workplace transformation. She has synthesized this half century of scholarship in her work. Deetta puts forward five social needs for achieving the best through teams. This directly relates to technology work. Status relates to how one feels they are perceived by others. These perceptions reflect value and standing. Certainty promotes effectiveness because work can be based on knowledge of one's role and the work processes in a word stability. Autonomy relates to power over one's work or control. This also relates to agency which is the belief one can accomplish one's work. Relatedness is present when one feels their work environment and workflows reflect or incorporate care, concern and support. Fairness appears again in Deetta's list of conditions for highly motivated work environments. As we discussed before, fairness and justice take a number of forms. Obviously, these conditions are interrelated when they occur. Further scholarship and practice indicate they are all essential in achieving potential for collaboration. And so as we close, what we wanted to highlight, notably what's not in our organizational models, control, command and power over others. Working with D-Lock, it's about agency, which is just like what we see in our technical models and our use of Agilent Scrum. And thinking about how we enable equity, a great deal of the work requires generosity and trust. So we've shared the example of D-Lock as one of the beloved community of abundant generosity and deep trust. Working with D-Lock has changed how we work by making real our technological and organizational processes for equity. In doing so, it's changed our ways of working with D-Lock and our ways of working and being in the world more generally. We know that enabling equity as part of the best practices for technology needs and management because it enables our best work and our best ways of working. Part of our work as leaders and technologists is in understanding what works to get the work done and what works for our workers to be in solidarity with all of us. Thank you for coming to our presentation. We do have a couple of slides of our different references. We've also shared these through the CNI Dropbox. We know that they will be available. I'm also going to click through quickly just to make sure that they are available in the recording. And we're now over to the Q&A. Thank you, Laurie. Thank you, Brian, for a really interesting overview of the methods that you've implemented at D-Lock. I really enjoyed hearing about that and I am sure that our attendees did as well. And thank you also to our attendees for making time to be with us here today. And without further ado, I will move right over to the Q&A. We have a question from Sarah Pritchard who asks, can you give examples of how your partnership specifically benefited, how your partnerships specifically benefited from this framework? Yeah, that's a great question. And there are so many answers to that. So for an early answer, it enabled D-Lock to exist. The shared governance model and the agreement, the partners, it wasn't so many collections that are like, hey, we're one institution that has more power. We have a collection scope. We will kind of want to go in a cherry pick. We want to say what we want and that's how we're going to define the partnership. But partnerships are about equals. And so when D-Lock came together, a lot of partners are like, some of these things may not be important to some other institutions, but they're really important to us. And these are also really important, not just within our institutions, but with our communities and our diaspora, because you'll have more people from any one island in the Caribbean who live outside of the island and still identify. So there are more Jamaicans that live outside of Jamaica than in Jamaica. So some of the things that partners found really, really important, funeral booklets. The University of the Virgin Islands has digitized tons of them. The funeral booklets have family information. They have information about the evolution of the different islands and the Virgin Islands in terms of different community members, different groups. And so by having the model where partners get to choose their materials, that enabled that to be possible. Other things, the training, the tech team and training work that happens to D-Lock is super awesome. It is one of the places that it only places that I've seen things that just happen. It seems like so organically, but really it's the model that provides the scaffolding for it. So different partners, there's obviously we have technical trainers at the University of Florida and Florida International University. But by being involved in D-Lock, partners are like, okay, so I've learned this, now I need to teach people. And we've got multiple languages going on. So the National Archives in Haiti are a super powerhouse for teaching all of the French Caribbean because they do all of the translations. And so even if we're in a meeting, like if we're at the Acura Conference and we're doing a workshop on technology, depending on who the different partners are in the room, if the presentation is in English or French or Spanish, you've got simultaneous translation going on in the room with people just doing whisper translation. So they're leaning to the side and whispering to other people doing the translation. And that's something that's specifically encouraged by the model, because everyone is part of it. And we know that we need to have different ways of working to make everyone successful. And so languages are just a sort of a simple example of that. That is really interesting. I'm sorry, go ahead, Brian. Well, the one thing I was gonna add to that is by having distributed governance, a shared governance, where the University of Florida has technical responsibilities and serves as the technical lead, but you have that broad governance, the technical platform itself evolved in ways that it wouldn't have evolved without that sort of member governance. And so that I don't often have something I can add to an answer from Laurie, but that's one piece that I thought I would contribute. No, that's great, that's great. Thank you. Thanks, Sarah, for that wonderful question and for expanding a little bit on how the model works in practice actually, because I was gonna ask sort of can you give us an example of how Agile and Scrum, I don't know if it's possible to give sort of a tangible example of how that model in particular might work differently from a more traditional model that would provide more equity in the process? And so some of the things, the equity and the restraints are bounded together as well, because some of it we can only make work if we make it equitable. So in big projects, you'll see these beautiful grant proposals that are like we're gonna spend $100,000 on digitization equipment, here's the room, here's who's gonna be employed in it, we're gonna set it up. We don't normally write grants like that and they're not feasible for us. It's okay, so what do we think will work for the technical setup? Often you have a smaller room, you really want the room to not have risk of water incursion and other things. I mean, we're in a tropical climate. Brian and I are working from home today because our institution has shut down from the storm. So when you're trying to work with different factors and also the most important materials at any partner institution, it's not going to be, oh, we only have AB digitization, we'll write a grant for that, or we're focusing just on newspapers. It's all over the place. And so how do you accommodate for the shifting technical needs? So some of that, obviously with programming, it's a more straight, agile scrum process. You know, we have daily sprints and stuff, but with our technical training and our equipment setup, we have a bunch of different lists like, okay, this is what the National Archives in Haiti have, this is what the U.S. Embassy in Haiti has, and here's how they're doing it for these material types. Okay, and here's how Antigua is doing it here, and here's how they're doing it for this project. So many of the projects what we found are best are digital single lens reflex cameras mounted with a camera stand, because you can move it around. And so you have a lot more flexibility. Those setups you can also do for under $10,000, which is what we're normally looking at as an absolute maximum. We also have recommendations for like better flatbed scanners and for the $100 ones. And then we end up getting recommendations and suggestions for, oh, you're in the Dutch Caribbean. Okay, well, this one is gonna be cheaper for you and more available. Oh, you're in the French Caribbean. This one you're probably gonna be able to find. So that's some of like how it's sourced. The other thing is, depending on where the grants are coming from, getting equipment in and getting it through customs, that can be complicated. So we work with the different networks of researchers and collaborators. If someone traveling to see their family members in Canada, can they go to Target and pick up X scanner and come back with it? It's not a joke. It's funny, I think, because people are bringing equipment back really regularly. But how do you activate all of the different stakeholders to make sure that you can get equipment where it needs to be? And the equipment is all different types. And then some of it, how do you support setup? Working with the National Library in Cuba, they also have the digital single lens reflex camera setup. And they're doing mainly newspapers. But one of their core needs that we had to figure out was getting uninterruptible power supplies in because of the power in the building flickers. And so then you can have the computers go out and obviously that's a big problem while you're scanning large files. So just being able to, we can have a project idea, but we're going to have to constantly iterate about it. We're gonna have to ask questions that we don't normally have to ask or even consider for a lot of these projects in order to make it work for the different local situations. And then each of the partners tells the other one, oh, here's how we made it work. And here's how this worked out. And, oh, here's this idea. And so the different cross training and connecting together. That is really interesting how it adds so much richness and depth to not only the project itself, but I'm sure the experience of the people working on it. So it sounds like a wonderful. And so I don't want to take anybody's opportunity to ask a question here. So attendees, please weigh in, please ask your questions. But while we're waiting, just one other question, if I may, what are some of the friction points that you experience using this model? What do you encounter in terms of pushback? Anything? That's one of the things that's really lucky and wonderful about Deloc. And you'll see if you ever get the chance to attend like a West Indian Literature Conference or Caribbean Studies Conference, what the word that you'll hear most often is generous, generosity, generous, thank you. This is only possible because someone has helped. Thank you so much for your presentation here. Other people you can build upon that generosity and abundance and connection and the recognition that there's more work than all of our lifetime. So we all have to come together to work on it. We really don't experience friction. We have enough exterior friction. We have friction from different governmental policies for travel and we have friction from the storms. No matter what happens, we will always have the storms. We always have the climate to contend with. So we have shared obstacles that we have to overcome. Thank you, Lori. And thank you, Brian, for this wonderful talk, an interesting resource and a fascinating method for managing it. And it's just really interesting. So I really appreciate your coming to CNI and sharing this with us. I'm gonna go ahead and close down the public portion of the talk. I'll stop the recording, but any of our attendees who are still with us, I invite you to stay if you're interested in approaching the podium and asking Lori or Brian a question or making a comment, please feel free to do so. Just raise your hand and I can unmute you. And with that, I wish you all a very good afternoon. Thank you so much. Thank you. Thank you.


I'm Deborah Borchart and this is your marijuana money minute. The rain has forced us inside for this week's taping, but we're not complaining. As we know our friends and our colleagues in California could use the rain that we're getting here on the east coast. You are in our thoughts, my friends. This week the USDA released a draft for the regulation of hemp in the US. Now once the rules are released, they will be temporary for the first year. This will allow states to participate in cultivation and processing for the 2020 growing season. The rules also cover other important things like where hemp can be grown, THC testing standards, biomass, transportation, licensing regulations, and more. Men Men had a really rough week. The company reported earnings and while they wanted the market to focus on the full year revenue of $130 million, which is a good number, it was the $277 million in net losses that caught everyone's attention. And in addition to that, Gotham Green made changes to the company's credit facilities and they took majority control of the company's board. If that wasn't enough, Cowan and company piled on as analyst Vivian Azar questioned the company's cost cutting goal seems it's a moving target. Hexo stock took another beating. Last week they announced layoffs this week. They reported earnings of $15.4 million versus last year's $13 million, but they delivered a net loss increase that went up over 400% coming in at $56 million for the quarter versus last year's net loss of $10 million for the same time period. The company also lowered guidance citing lower than expected store rollout across Canada and lower south roof. Let's just keep going with the bad news. Diana Metis headed for bankruptcy or as the Canadians call it, receivership. The company couldn't pay the $24 million that its creditors were demanding and yep, the fat lady began to sing. The bear market forced Curely to change its deal with Cura Partners. The share amount that it was in the deal was cut by half and any additional shares will be payable upon the company meeting certain sales target goals. It wasn't all terrible this week, there was some positive news. City Health Sciences reported revenue of $10 million versus last year's $2 million for the same time period and net income, yes net income, not a net loss, net income of $22 million over last year's net loss of $5.6 million. The company 1906 raised $18 million in a round led by Navy Capital and General Cannabis bought a dispensary in Boulder. Finally presidential candidate in Vermont, Senator Bernie Sanders released his plan for legalizing cannabis. He said he will remove cannabis from the controlled substances act and expunge all past convictions. And that's it for this week. I'm Deborah Borchart reporting for the Green Market Report.


You need to understand this, the best thing, the foremost thing and the most beautiful thing that you can offer to people around you is you're an evolved human being. Yes or no? Not your money, not your wealth, not your rubbish, not your work which is going to make the difference. That being with you is a wonderful experience for people around you, your family, the people that you work with, your friends, everybody aspires to be with you because it's a wonderful experience to be with you. This is the best thing that you can ever do to any human being around you. That's all they aspire for, isn't it?


Wagner Group may soon cease to exist. Yevgeny Prigozin, the owner of the private military company Wagner, has stated that the Wagnerites are running out and the company may soon cease to exist. We are approaching the point where the Wagner Private Military Company is ending and in a short time, Wagner will cease to exist, he said. Told that statements like this would be demoralizing for Russians, the Wagner leader answered that he would say it again. Prigozin claimed that the Wagnerites would go down in history. He also alluded not for the first time to the lack of ammunition. Prigozin said this week his troops were suffering heavy casualties due to a lack of support from Moscow. Wagner has in the past dispatched soldiers to fight in Syria and in conflicts across Africa. The Russian paramilitary organization is accused of human rights abuses, war crimes and lawful killings and gold smuggling. It allegedly has close links to the Russian state and Vladimir Putin. Prigozin criticizes the Russian Ministry of Defense and Russian officials. This only serves to underline the conflict between the mercenaries and the regular army of the Russian Federation. In particular, he constantly complains about the lack of ammunition, believing that the Russian generals are trying to kill more convicts and Wagner mercenaries. But Russian sources are saying that Prigozin wants to gain the approval of and even greater support from the Kremlin. Andrey Yusof, a representative of Defense Intelligence of Ukraine's Ministry of Defense, believes that Prigozin's remarks reflect the mood of Russia's political and military elite. And now there are many tiny cracks in the Kremlin that will only get wider.


All right, we do have quorum now. I'm seeing 9 of 11 of the TSC so Dan if you like we can go ahead and get started Yeah Thanks to everybody for joining. Once again all our welcome here the hyper ledger technical steering and elsewhere within hyper ledger I think I will let you Todd just go ahead and run down the the agenda here and I have anything additional to add Sure sounds good So diving in with the first topic quick reminder event reminders next hackfest is in about three weeks now in Montreal just have to remember summit. So please get registered for that I think we've got around a hundred already. So really fantastic numbers there and I know Tracy and rye are both working with the technical community on Agenda planning for that. So if there are things you want to hear about hack on topics you want raised or things You want to present on please get that dropped in there and we'll get that Massage into shape for for the hackfest the APAC hackfest will be the week of March 4th We're working on the details for that, but please hold that in your calendars for now and The last one We'll continue to remind everyone hyper ledger global forum December 12th to 15th in Basel Switzerland This is our flagship event for the entire hyper ledger ecosystem. So technical tracks business tracks Tons in that working workshops, etc. So definitely make the trip out for that and With that I will hand it over. I believe to Tracy or rye to talk a bit on hyper ledger community health so I guess last week we started the Conversation about the changes that we made to the the charter We didn't really have a whole lot of time to talk So I think this is really opening up the discussion to see what else people might want to Comment on I think the last meeting we were talking about Whether metrics actually did make sense versus not. So, you know, obviously the the group was thinking that Maybe metrics only made sense in order to help develop kind of Best practices and move towards community growth, but then It seemed like last week. Maybe we were taking a step back from that. So, yeah, I think this is really just open discussion Let's let's hear some more thoughts and see what else we want to do about this particular proposal So I think it's important to have something You know, I probably a working group makes Make sense Might not have to be a meet every week kind of thing or But you know, I think we've seen a couple projects where okay, you know fun Staffings going away from some companies So what do we want to do to keep the project going or you know There's been lots of conversation about how do we encourage more people to join Specific projects or working groups that may need help So I think it's important that there be some mechanism to deal with that The exact implementation, you know, we we can figure out but a working group seems to make sense to me Thanks mark. I know something that's important to me is Making sure that that we do look into not just the Sort of the the aggregate Population like or are we are we able to help drive contributors? but also Are we are we doing that in a way that's that's reaching all the potential contributors and so that's Why I think it's important to have diversity listed on there specifically So I've I've added that I know that there was some thoughts initially that let's not get too prescriptive in What we'll work on But I do think it's important to have that on there specifically Yeah, I think that's a good call out Dan to that and I've also reached out to My human resources department and so you'll see a name down at the the bottom of the list from interested parties and that's that somebody from Intel with with PhD in in Looking at how diversity recruitment impacts organizational growth and I'm wondering if that's something that I Would guess maybe the larger companies have these kind of resources that they could draw upon but certainly Smaller companies that would guess also have people within them that that have these kind of skills and I think one way to look at this is We see a technical area that that needs development and we're able to recruit in Developer resources we we see technical documentation needs we we recruit in technical writers This seems like a place where we can be recruiting in people with human resource talents to make sure that We are developing a healthy community so I would ask that that For the participating companies here the member companies and those that aren't member companies If you think you've got some expertise within your company for this this might be a Different way to contribute than than your company's been contributing so far Yeah, I mean That sounds like a great idea Dan and diversity is a hard issue, right? I mean, that's that's something that's not easy to solve I mean, I'd be happy if this working group helped with like easier issues like when do I schedule my phone calls for for a maximum participation Yeah, definitely. There's all sorts of aspects here whether it's geographic diversity or there's just many ways that we can define this there's a lot of there's a lot of low-hanging fruits and you know, and I think There's a you know, just There's a lot of stuff that this could potentially work on and I just I think there's a lot of There's a lot of hesitancy about kind of prescription and I think if we make it so that this The the interaction with the group is more that you ask the group Like if I'm a project or a working group or something I come to the group and the group gives me a recommendation Rather than the group unilaterally issuing recommendations, which I assume is what the the plan is and I think that that seems You know, I don't think that seems extremely controversial right, and I think also when it comes to things like contributor metrics That something that this body might be able to do that an individual project can't is look across all of those project reports so again not to be overly prescriptive here, but but just as an example it seems that This group could aggregate across those statistics and be able to see trends that aren't apparent from an individual project or working group so Yeah, I don't disagree with that Dan, but I I'm You know, I definitely think that there's more that we can do, you know, sort of to to to drive additional contribution and participation I'm actually Frankly, this is an open source initiative and so I'm more concerned about getting people to work on open source than getting HR involved necessarily and You know, I think at the You know while it's true that you know, we could get a group that looks across them But again, that's kind of our job here Right, and you know, we get these quarterly reports. We see them back to back It's going to be pretty obvious when you see diversity in one project is that you know, whatever Threshold and then the next one comes in and it's like homogenous, right? That's it'll be pretty obvious. I think to most of us and You know, maybe if there's a specific, you know Thing that we need to drill down on and try and solve we should You know, we could maybe convene, but I'm just I'm I'm reluctant to start yet another working group that doesn't really have a Specific deliverable, right? That's You know, this is sort of hand-wavy in terms of what it's going to deliver Now it's the focus is on okay, let's come up with a means of, you know, using the chaos Tooling to generate some numbers that can be maintained by the LF And shared with the project so that they can incorporate those into their reporting, okay Right, but that's a deliverable, right? That's That's a thing that they do they deliver And then we can you know think about does it have some other deliverable then but I'm I'm kind of I Otherwise I just see this as sort of wishy-washy. Let's do healthy things. That's that's the problem that I see Yeah, thanks for that Chris and I also think that there's a risk that we create too many working groups that are increasingly Divorced from actually generating code. Yeah, and What's what's different to me about this one is that it's And I'm not married to the idea that it's necessarily a working group, but that we are looking at something that is You know, it's underline how we how we actually Feed the code generation Mm-hmm. So the other thing I heard you say is is more specific deliverables Mm-hmm, and that's another thing that I look at when when I look at at these proposals is is will there be something concretely delivered? So as we look at these these work products Does it jump out to anybody something more specific in any of the existing bullets or any additional bullets that would? Help make these more concrete I think that's what was intended by the suggestion of having in you know, kind of a review of the Updates and review of you know, whatever community metrics that the tooling gives to kind of provide extra supportive kind of here You might want to think about this or grow this in a certain way, which I think was received as Usurping the role of the TSC and performing its oversight role on the different projects But I think was meant much more in the spirit of you know each time they run this the scan They can provide this community health report and and then as a as a working group put together some pros Which you know uses that data to say you might want to think about this or think about that Right, so it was like I think one one idea for an outcome was this kind of advice but it got perceived as as Taking something away from the TSC, which I think was unfortunate Yeah, and I think you know a lot of that too comes out of some of what we're hearing in the project updates, right? We seem to have a lot of requests for Help coming out of those those project updates, and I think that was part of our thinking as well right is like okay Now maybe here's something specific that we can focus on to help the the larger community when There are specific requests coming in And maybe this is a working group that could do that so Brian you're exactly right. That's kind of what we were thinking So yeah Excuse me I like Diane's idea that it's more of a task force That will provide actual tools to the working group so that they can run these Metrics themselves working groups and projects not just working groups and then Then come out with those numbers and in fact The work the Community promotion task force would Have a set of tools that anybody can use and The working groups and push towards the working groups and the projects these tools so that they can see for themselves and it's kind of interesting that the TSC is talking about this. Have you ever taken a look at the mirror yourselves? So, you know, this is this is a very interesting problem because obviously the ones were You know involved and standing for elections and get elected Seem to be you know people from a particular Gender and a particular you know Direction so that there is It is it is reflection of our community the DSC itself. So We can talk about it all we want but in the end This is a reflection of You know what we got through the electoral process maybe there is a way to Make a little more transparent to the electoral process itself by saying, okay This is a number of this is a percentage of people who voted for this TSC, you know Like out of 600 how many people actually voted? We don't we don't even know that And if it's so can we increase the water? percentage and diversity And how can we do those kind of things? So this is you know, it's it's a far Reaching thing and it's very wide and yeah, it has to be an effort not just by Working a task force or a or a working group But we've been I think you have a good point, but we have to start somewhere, right? So we you know, if we try too much I'm not against it. I'm not against it I'm just suggesting that it would be better that if you do it as a task force kind of thing that helps the working groups in increasing their diversity and community So I also wanted to add You know to this question of whether it should be a working group or not I don't think we should get too much into the details here. I at the end of the day I don't think it matters so much a working group doesn't have to be there forever I think the revised charter is an improvement over the previous version because it better positions of the Fits with what we have as the quarterly report what I'm not exactly clear on though is whether the working group members intend to actually kind of Inserts himself and I don't mean that in a negative way but kind of get into the different projects to have an experience of what's going on there and make some assessment so they can make some recommendation or is it really just you know Generic methodology and metrics that you know You end up developing and then you say okay These are the tools that people should use to make their assessments and make it part of their quality report well, I I do think The healthy and the diversity is important for every project and the working group However, I think it's already part of the Team co-chairing team and also the maintainer team job and also it's kind of duplicate with the TSC job And my my one concern is that their their term Healthy is kind of to generate generative so that means we it may be difficult to define exactly the working scope and Responsibility for the new working group, but that's the that's part of the charters to define what that means Yeah, the chart or give the definition. However, you know for the term or health Project health different people have different understanding and you can see everything is related to the health like of the meeting quality Call the quality or even activities, right? Yeah, I mean, I think that's a good point bella And I think most of the stuff we're talking about here is is less health and more like how do we improve our community? So yeah, I'll be more comfortable if we called this the hyperledger community improvement working group and And kind of focused on that angle because that seems like most of the Most of what the goal of this group is to do anyway is to to help the community improve Rather than Rather than measure the health Does that make sense? Do is that reasonable? I Think Chris there's a separate conversation going on in the chat channel Chris. Did you want to propose something as well? Yep, I can find the mute button. Um, yeah, so I said so so for purposes of the You know the the actual Conculation of the the metrics, you know figuring out how many committers we have and What their diversity is and and so forth? The you know in the in the proposal You know Tracy cited the chaos project, which is a sister Collaborative project in the Linux Foundation and they're working on various tooling I looked at it a while back and it didn't seem quite Ready for prime time. I'm sure it's in the six or nine months since I last looked at it It's probably come a long way, but you know, we could do like a project or a you know hyperledger labs To to actually just work on adapting that work and making any changes and so forth that are Relevant to our own needs so that the teams do have the ability to run those kinds of numbers in a consistent way that You know, we're comparing apples and apples But that would be a specific project with a specific set of deliverables and Hopefully it would actually bring additional people into the community that are writing code and You know, that's the end of the day. That's what we're trying to do here So that that was one thing that and again, I think, you know, a lot of the kinds of discussion that are you know That would be had in a working group would you know manifest themselves in the context of that project and You know and again, you know as I've said before I think again I think the large part is the TSC's job to focus on some of these things and we should be having more Conversations about this sort of amongst ourselves and and I think that the quarterly reviews have Have had a positive effect of bringing the TSC together to have those kinds of discussions in the context of a particular projects You know concerns or needs or you know in any concerns that we may have with what's going on with the project, so I don't know that that's That was just one way of certainly moving forward without just sort of having endless debate about this I think that's interesting to look at a subset of what you might be able to do with Scripting to pull out stats. I think what that wouldn't necessarily address is The other the well really most of the diversity aspects and I think what maybe could be clearer in the proposal here is Before you can fix something you need to know you have a problem. Yeah, you got to be able to measure it So I think there's a task here to figure out how we define the problem and Particularly in the case of diversity. That's where I'm thinking as a software developer. That's not what my skill is I don't know the the responsible way to collect Information and there's there's laws about that And a lot of other sensitivities So I think it'd be worthwhile to have a task force that might include people with human resource skill sets They could help us identify if we have a problem and make suggestions about How we would remedy it if we do have a problem Okay, well, it sounds like we may have rounded out a comment for today And I know we've got a number of other agenda topics So by all means we can keep that conversation going on On the mail list So so just Maybe close this out as What I heard was that From the the chat channel we're going to create a lab the bitpins going to be a sponsor and We're also Considering not kind of withdrawing this as a working group but making it more of a task force That's focused on particular items that come out of discussions from the TSE Is that right? That sounds fair to me Sounds good to me All right, thanks guys All right, great. So moving forward in the agenda next is the quarterly project updates. So we have Explorer this week This is part of the from GCC. I'll Give you an update on the hyperlogic Explorer Okay, so when when the product was started the goal of the product Let me make sure that you guys can hear me. Can you guys hear me? Yes? Okay When the project was started, you know, the goal was to obviously create an explorer that can work across multiple platforms And initially we did start with the implement support for fabric Okay As fabric evolved and the explore project evolved it was it became quite specific to fabric So in the last quarter we focused on Re-architecting the project to make it a little bit more modular so that if somebody wants to add additional Additional support for new platforms They can they can easily do so okay so That was there was the bulk of the work that went on in the last last one quarter and also we were revamping the UI making it a little bit more giving it a little bit of a look so that People whoever is using the Explorer they can use it right out of the box and probably take it to Take it to production. We heard actually from several users who are using Explorer You know, there were several feature requests that are Seeming more and more like enterprise related features. So and we didn't have the time to actually work on those enterprise features. We did open the tickets in Jira and put them in the backlog But but we haven't had the time because because we were focused on Keeping up the Explorer with the latest fabric releases Now We do see contributions from community We've been seeing lately a little bit more than previously previously. It was all just DTCC Now we do see contributions from others But not to the level that where we can add other maintainers So so DTCC is still actively maintaining this project and And we are we are seeing in a healthy activity in the rocket chart channel and we are monitoring it regularly to make sure that you know questions are answered and we keep asking folks whether they're interested in Contributing to the Explorer on the channel on the rocket chart channels. So So overall, I think the the project itself is in a usable state. It is we see we see people folks using it and At the end of this point, it's really about you know, how much functionality can it have and also keeping up with With up with the newer releases of the platforms, especially fabric We had discussions probably once at twice with the Folks who are doing the sort of right, but those didn't really go anywhere in terms of trying to integrating The Explorer that was developed for this for sort of into Hyperledge Explorer project That's all the update I have you guys have any questions Thanks part of this Dan I Think I recall for some earlier conversations there there might be some interest from From your wing of developers to be looking at new problems that are outside the context of Explorer I Is that is my recollection correct on that? Yes. Yeah, so I mean because the Explorer right now is It is usable project. We started looking into Into the fabric earlier. We were actively involved in fabric for SDK and chain code so we are trying to get back to some level of expertise so that we can start contributing to the fabric but Other than that, you know, that is still that is still Right now a work in progress Is that what your question is today? Yeah, and as I'm thinking through this and I also remember there's some interest in in looking at interoperability problems so I guess the the guidance that I'm I'm meandering towards here is thinking about well Do you think about doubling down on Explorer and making it really successful across the frameworks or think about Doing something completely orthogonal and Taking taking the talent that you've assembled around this and starting to look at some of those interoperability problems if of course those were actually What was starting to take more interest? So I think interoperability is extremely hard problem. We are trying to define exactly what that what is our interest In interoperability is we haven't had time to define the problem itself If I know exactly what problem and trying to solve it becomes easier the current project that Quilt is focused only on the the payments, right? It's really about the cryptocurrency moment, you know, between two different ledgers I I am not sure if you know, we don't have that use case right now for GTCC so So we haven't it given Given a lot of part into How we want to solve this interoperability problem Okay. Yeah, and I don't lose kind of off the cuff here son and expect you to have some some concrete ideas, but I do think it's worthwhile to Do a little thought-path finding to think about where some of those interoperability problems are or opportunities so just one or two other things off the cuff here the There's there might be things that underlie all of the platforms that there's some commonality and we can have some more common libraries And I think the the work that's already in progress with the crypto lives a good example of that and then you could also look Top down instead where maybe explore is already an example of something where you'd be looking Potentially for a tool that could call into any of the stacks And then the the third area is something that's more explicitly Integration related that's probably represented by and by quilt, but as you say wouldn't be Specifically for the the financial transactions And so that I mean Go ahead Chris No, I was just going to add that that we We have We're working on the interoperability Paper from the architecture working group and you're working on a bunch of primitives that would enhance or would be necessary to do certain types of interoperability and DVP being one of them and I urge you to at least listen in and contribute Because DTC see you know, obviously would be very interested in this topic and it's not Unfined to cryptocurrency or to currency movements since the deep part can be delivery of various kinds of assets most of them that you custody so You should be able to provide some very You know as to comments From a use case perspective on this particular topic Okay, I think one of our Architecture guys, I think they probably are attending the the working group discussions. Let me check with them to see if they have any feedback that they can Provide you guys plus I mean the interoperability discussion that you guys are having is going to be interest for us as well and And I'll second what Vipin said that that having concrete Data points about what works and what doesn't work what you found to be the challenges would be extremely helpful Okay Last time in the quarter report I remember it is suggested that the explorer to provide that the official Docker image at doc hub. How's that going? so The Docker images they are they are available. I just don't know whether they are posted to the Posted officially But that that work is complete Yes, it's already at the doc hub people can pull down the image from it The image are getting close push to the but But the the work in terms of dog rising the explorer that is that is done I'll double check the pushing images Okay, thanks, and I'll let you guys know any other questions sounds like not Thanks so much for together your report and and also for getting that in on time for us to review before the meeting Thank you. Thanks, Dan Looks like identity is up next. Yes, then let me post the link on rocket shot so The working group meets regularly, of course, we have a core group and a Revolving group of attendees. We have at least two or three New people every session This there there was a slight slowdown we noticed due to I believe it's due to summer vacations the most important thing that to note here is that We have Progressed quite a bit on the paper and New trends have been contributions and commons Even when the conferences We are not in conference or the week of the conference. So there is steady steady update of the paper with respect to comments and with respect to actual contributions and I think we are We can almost smell the completion of the of the paper at this point and as with many others who have said we need identity experts from and People who have actually implemented stuff from the various DLT's to contribute We have a solution for this problem now, which is by having Prepared a bunch of questions. We are going to either directly or indirectly interview the the experts in these projects so that they don't have to show up and and actually modify the paper because Previously we noted that Nobody came even though they all said they are interested in contributing. So we're going to push them a little bit with the active interlocution and asking questions Which are very going to be very pointed and direct and Identity working group is one of those groups of that are foundational and hence attract a large variety of people from various technical and non technical backgrounds and a wide variety of companies Last quarter last quarter we presented we had colleague present on the domains of identity paper and We use that as a through line in stitching the various things that we describe in the paper together and We also get regular reports from People who are in the identity field And are attending the numerous conferences that go on Last week we had a presentation from I've been who Did present here the TSC and We felt it was an identity related problem. So they presented their Their vision and then also they got back some feedback from people in the legal community From Europe who were on the call. So it was kind of interesting that this has become a forum for These kind of discussions as well and The I band P project will be applying for a lab state status as well We want to finish the paper very soon hopefully There will be a rough draft either before Montreal or shortly thereafter of course, we will be Asking for help to polish this up with the tech writer In terms of diversity We do have a healthy and vibrant community but You know, we we try to do some rough measurements of gender diversity of participation in the cause I can say it is in the range of 20 20% or so and which Although not ideal you know We need to boost that by making it making welcoming New participants and encouraging them especially in that area to stay around and contribute And as you saw that we have several leaders in this in the identity movement and also in the projects were women and They are able leaders and we welcome their contributions In terms of geographic diversity, we have quite a bit of participation from Asia Europe and Hopefully not hopefully but sometimes it's used as a proxy for For You know other kinds of diversity we do have A lack of participation from Africa. I think there were a couple of gentlemen from South Africa, but also that's in America so We would encourage The people who are actually creating the identity solutions in the DLT is to show up because There is a unique perspective from the user angle to be had from participation in the identity working group and With that that's any questions commons Yeah, Vipin. Good job. Have you thought of maybe doing something at the hackfest in Montreal? Where you know either like a separate session we can pull all the developers who for each DLT together Or maybe do some interviews there Talking you're muted. Am I I mean you cannot hear me. I can hear you now. Now you can hear you. Yeah, I was saying that That once we have the questionnaire Which actually is you know, not not even a questionnaire sort of say It would more of a guide to a conversation For an interview so I might conduct some some of those interviews With people from the different DLT's if they are present in Montreal and add that to the you know to the paper myself So that's that's the plan. Thanks Mark for that suggestion Even thanks for spending some time Talking about and keeping diversity prominent and how you're thinking about your working group Switching to the deliverable aspect So your your main deliverable is is the paper and you're kind of marching down towards the the end of the the road It sounds like on that. What do you think that the community will get out of that paper? The community will get something like a complete Survey of the different identity activities Specifically targeted at the at the problems and at the DLT In general and of course, they will also get a window into how we are solving some of those problems in the DLT's that are incubated or In under the hyper ledger hot house That is the aim of the paper at this at this moment but as you recall there is a implementation aspect Which we had in the charter, but I had to Delay that because otherwise our Deliverable in the short term would be quite broad. So I folk we folk chose to focus on part one, which is basically more of Survey and also certain Solutions and you know that that's that's the idea Great and then so I assume that you've got strong participation from Indy as One of if not the main identity focused projects here Yeah, this is one of the I mean we do have Participation from Indy, but sometimes it drops off because they are very busy either pushing code or attending conferences So it waxes and wanes depending on the On what's happening in the wider identity world? but this is another thing that I actually forgot to mention that The most of the people who come to the identity working group are very focused on SSI on that end of the spectrum But we need some balance as tan Lieberman suggested that we have to represent Enterprise folks because that is the focus of the you know a lot of the hyper ledger DLT's so We would you know, we are trying to Create that bridge between the two balances between the SSI world and the And the legacy world or the enterprise world So many people did raise that as one of the one of the things that they want to work on So we have a couple of volunteers who are actually actively looking at that All right, I know of one thing that might fit in that realm There's a there's an application being built in the sawtooth framework called sawtooth next directory and there's some contributors from T-Mobile among others and They might help bring that enterprise view that you're looking for and so you probably be able to find them In the I think it's the sawtooth next directory channel on chat where if you just look around the repo You'll see the committers in there as well. Are they going to be present in Montreal? I don't know Okay Because that would be a interesting thing to talk about Since I'm planning to be there great Hi, this is Vikas I'm from CLS Bank We are building an application using the hyper ledger fabric And it's a critical application from our side and we wanted to know if we can also have some enterprise presence In this forum as you know because this is a completely open Forum for in the working group both the channels of the mailing lists and The calls are completely open and of course you can also contribute directly to the paper So any suggestions any comments you can take to those venues and I can We can also You're breaking up because I can't I can hardly hear you. Sorry I Sorry to interrupt but your audio isn't coming through I'll encourage you to connect with with Fitbit on chat hyper ledger org that might be a good way to connect If anybody else has some Questions or feedback on this update. We've got We've got a 10 minutes left in the meeting. We also want to have a little bit of discussion about the the overall report process here And then I think we'll probably won't have time for the bug bounty discussion But if anybody has some further comments, let's let's get those now. Otherwise we can switch into the next topic Okay. Thank you, Vipin. You're welcome Dan okay, um So I don't know if we've got a whole lot of time for discussion Maybe we don't need much but I want to make sure that that we are getting out of these updates what we what we originally intended We might be able to get a little deeper discussion on some of these topics if we're able to do what Both on on the TSC side and on the reporter side If we do a couple of things one is by why just role model something that I thought was great that looking back at the previous reports Our issues being addressed Our new issues being raised so that that's something that we can be doing in our own responsibility as as committee members here The other thing that was coming to mind is Are we you know, are we spending time reading through the status reports? I don't think that's was the case for today's discussions But we'll be able to get deeper into the material if these reports are provided at the beginning of the week And that gives us all a chance to actually review them so that we can come to this meeting with some informed questions Does anybody else on the on the committee have some feedback for For the project and working group update formats the way that we're going about discussing these in these meetings Well, let me ask you then. Do you think there's a problem? I had gotten some feedback that you know in some cases we're we're spending Maybe more time going through what's what's written in the report than Then having allocated that same time to maybe digging into what the issues were that were raised or Topics that weren't covered by the report that could be delved into Yeah, I mean I think that makes sense Dan if we want to Like it's not hard to read the reports beforehand if we just want to Have less of a presentation and more of a question session that might be good for everybody And I guess maybe one of the other thanks heart and maybe one of the other Minor problems. I don't think there's anything critical here, but one of the other minor problems we have had Um reports that have been delayed at sometimes for weeks And so there's a timeliness to the reporting that's you know First of all get it in on on the week that it's due as well as get it in in advance so that we can have a meaningful discussion Then I think that uh, it's a good point and uh to encourage people read the questions. I guess Uh, maybe from the tsc side, we may Provide some like a positive Help or support to help resolve those issues Yeah, that's a great point And from the new working group slash You know people who are going to help us with the community Development I think I only got the second half of that. I heard and from the new community working group Yeah, the new uh Working group Yes, yeah, okay. I follow Yeah, I think I think it's a good idea to Shorten the presentations. Um You know, I know when I've done them in the past, I'm not reading it verbatim, but You know, I'm going through You know, I don't know if it makes sense to move the reports to more bullet items versus You know a text or a document. Um, or just you know, maybe there's both There's you know a written out text and then as a As you know, the chair or something I come up with. Okay. Here's this, you know, three bullet points I want to make sure I get across during during the call to Yeah, and I'm not so concerned with restricting the time as much as making sure that we make the best use of the time I'm all for doing homework ahead of time So I see that we've got uh quilt and the performance working group on the docket for next week So probably the goal for both of those projects would be to get the the updates in sometime monday and then that will give Everybody a chance to review them before thursday You know one one thing I'll add is the apache software foundation Their board has monthly calls where they review about 30 project reports each time because they have like 350 different projects and so They check their agenda into version control. Um, kind of like the wiki um, like we do I guess and then they um Before the meeting they the board members know that it's their job to review those reports And if they when they when they review them and they approve them by putting a little plus one in checking that as a vote essentially there's a Confirmation that they've read it and understand and accept it as a report into version control And then when they actually do get on a phone call and talk They only talk about the exceptional cases or the ones where there's really an issue that needs kind of raising um, which is what you have to do at that scale, I guess, but uh It's a it's an efficiency that would be kind of interesting to see here That sounds like a great idea if we can implement it We can implement the voting on a blockchain I know indy has plans to do voting on its platform okay, well If there's no other comments there, I think that's uh discussion has run its course. So Uh, it looks like for next week in addition to those report outs. We will at least have Some discussion to be had on the bug bounty. So if you're not caught up on that from the mail list Please take some time to do that over the coming week And then uh, probably something else that we could have some discussion on next week Is a little bit more Planning on what we'll actually be doing face-to-face In uh, Montreal All right. Well, uh, I think that probably concludes things here. So thanks for everybody's participation here and we will talk again next week All right, thanks everyone. Thanks guys. Thanks. Good. Have a nice day


Hi everyone, Joe for Jaspy's casebreaks.com coming at you with 2020 Panini Origins Football. Eight box, half case, pick your team, number seven from a fresh case. A very big thank you to all of these folks for getting to the action. We finally got it done. Mark Nation with that last spot. Mojo Starr next to his name. Thanks everybody here. And we've got RNBs on there. So that means we've got a number block for these teams right here. Casey, Phil, I gotta get, gotta replace that toner. And Houston right there. So thanks everyone here. The video for that is in a separate video. This I think I'll keep next to me right over here. Remember we'll do the randomizer for the non numbered cards at the end. All right and the second half is kind of sold out. We just need to move a one number block which looks like it's gonna sell out. So great. So we'll do the second half and we'll probably call it night after that. So thanks. It's a good way to end the night.  Excuse me. What was my voice here? There's the end of my week here. So I think the second break will be a good stopping point. One, two, three for the left side. Four, five, six for the right side. And it's gonna be three. One, two, three right here. So this we will do shortly after this break. So I'll put a little slash mark right there so we know it's all from the same case. Keep that here next to me. So we're gonna do that pretty soon. And let's roll. I guess Tulsa is up 31, 26 on a ranked team. UCF. Some upsetting happening here. Oh we got a book. All right, there's Aaron Donald, 24 out of 299. That'll be for the Rams. That's gonna be for Mark. And there's Gardner Minshew to 175 for the Jags. That'll be for Ethan. Got Levion Bell back here for the Jets. That's gonna be for Cameron. And then there's, this should be a, yeah, a relic right there. Gabriel Davis, 85 out of 99. Origins Relic. Bills, that's gonna be for Michael M. Got Darrington Evans, Jersey Nautograph. Titans, Patrick Davis. And the book behind Amari Cooper. Now we're gonna do it right now, Jeremy. It's gonna be, it's gonna be Henry Ruggs the third. 32 out of 49 for my Raiders. Ooh, that's a nice patch right there. Silver, black, and white. Ruggs is on card autograph. I don't think he's in action this week. 32 out of 49. Patrick Cologne with my Raiders. There you go, Pat. I don't think he's in action this week, but I'll be looking forward to him coming back. All right, Sky, you watched on another, what? Another channel? What other channel? I think we're the only people that do group breaks. Other people do this too? What? Other people do this? They unbox things? I thought we were the only ones that did this. Oh, is that your second? Nice. I'm pretty sure we're the only ones that do this. All right, next box. Stephon Gilmore, 299. I have not seen any inscriptions, to be honest with you. There's TJ Watt, have we? We got Raheem Moser, I need him back on my fancy team, Lee. All right, the Relic is Tyler Johnson. It's a nice big patch there. 14 out of 25 for the Buccaneers. Jarell Taylor with that one. We got Joe Burrow, two-color patch and autograph. I wasn't gonna do the on-card last, but turns out there's a Joe Burrow here. Bangles, Aaron Clark picked up the bangles straight up here in Origins 7. Nice. And a Kishon Vaughn is your on-card autograph. Eight out of 99 for the Buccaneers. It's for Jarell. So far, so good. A Henry Ruggs book, Joey B. Autograph. Some good stuff popping already. Is that second half sold out? Almost four spots left in the last number block for the second half of this case. That second half will be the last break of the night. 009 out of 175, Dwayne Haskins for the Washington football team, TJ with that one. Big Bend 299, Steelers, that'll be from Michael Mary, Marlon Mack, Mike and the Colts, and behind Leveon Bell is AJ Dillon, Dan Tursky in the pack. Nice two-color jersey, 130 out of 199. The autograph is Gabriel Davis, on-card auto for Michael M. Buffalo. Cam Akers, two-color passion autograph. 57 out of 99, Rams, that's gonna be, that's gonna be from Mark Nation, Last Spot Mojo. I think he might be back pretty soon. Maybe not this way, maybe a couple weeks maybe. Next box, Bobby Wagner to 299, Seahawks, Bryan, Kenny G to 299 for the Lions. That'll be for Jens. Behind Fitzmagic is Coop, Omari Cooper. The relic is Devin Duvernay, Ravens, Don Rabb. 58 out of 99. Got a bit of the purple and the black of their jersey. The on-card auto, Zach Moss, on-card auto for the Bills, Michael M. And we've got another Henry Ruggs, this time a silver and black passion autograph, and on-book, 30 out of 49. Another one for Pat and my Raiders. I think that means the Raiders are gonna win on Sunday against the Bills. More Raiders and Bills cards, right? That's how it works. And Max Crosby to 299. Another one for Pat, we've got Big Ben to 175 for Michael Marion the Steelers. And Jared Gov is Karyon Johnson. The relic is gonna be T. Higgins to 199, 186 out of 199. Going to Aaron Clark and the Bengals. Yeah, check out my picks, let's see how they do. I did okay, I was 50% last week. Denzel Mims on-card autograph for the Jets. Won my Cat Team Parley last week. Jets Cameron Goodman with the J-E-T-S Jets Jets Jets and DeAndre Swift, 38 out of 75. Three-color patch and autograph. This quick hit going to Jens and the Lions. Cat Team Mojo. Three boxes to go. And is that last filler for number eight full yet? Three spots left now, we can run this back. Oh, former Dodgers coach Ron Paranowski passed away. Remember Ron Paranowski? Out of 299 drew Locke, like mid-80s I think. Looked like Bob Gibson, 17 out of 99. Who? For the Browns, that'll be for Eric. Carson Wentz in the back here. And the relic, Brian Westbrook, Miles Sanders, nice. 19 out of 25. Dual relic for the Fly Eagles Fly. That's our first number block hit. And that's gonna go to nine. Sean Maddock with the number nine. Then we've got Jonathan Taylor for the Blue Horseshoes. 24 out of 99. That's a nice one for Mike Krasinski with the Colts. Oh yeah, yeah, didn't I, was there more Eagles cards? Was there a Wentz? Oh, there's the Wentz. That's the non-numbered card. Did I miss another one? Oh, that's it, that's the card. Yeah, that'll represent the non-numbered cards of which just that one, just that Carson Wentz. There's Devin Duvernay, two-color patch and autograph, Ravens, Don Rabb, and there's Gurley for the Falcons. Patrick Mahomes to $175, or 98 out of $175. That goes to Kang, a number eight. Aaron Donald to $79 for the Rams mark. DJ Shark, do-do-do-do-do-do for Ethan and the Jags. We've got a Joe Burr. I think I slid the on card too quick. There we go, Joe Burrow, Relic. 52 out of $75, another one for Aaron Clark and the Bengal. Nice break for the cats, the striped cats. The on card out is another Henry Ruggs, 40 out of $99. This time it's an on card auto for Pat. All Raiders definitely winning this weekend. There it is, 40 receptions for 99 yards for Henry Ruggs. You heard it here first, folks. And Keeshawn Vaughn, nice patch in there and autographed buccaneers. That'll be for Jarell Taylor. All right, and the final Origins box. Good luck, everybody. We've got Jimmy G, 242 to 299. Niners, Lee, Mark Andrews, nine out of 25 for Don and the Ravens. Got Daniel Jones back here for the Giants. The Relic is Joey Bosa, nice hometown roots from Fort Lauderdale, Florida, one out of 25. Nice colors in there for the Bolts. Sean Matic has the Chargers. I think these hometown roots cards look really cool. The on card auto is DeAndre Swift, Yens, with that one, 67 out of 99. And the last hit behind Vaughn Miller is Chase Claypool, 18 out of 99 for Pittsburgh. Michael Mary with the Steelers. And there's Vaughn Miller right there for the Broncos, that's gonna be for Ethan. Only one non-numbered card in that group. I thought there'd be more. Only one non-numbered card in that group. So let's go back to the list. Let's go to the number block tab. Let's grab all the names here. Oh, that's from a different break. All right, let's get all those names in here. Let's roll it, let's randomize it. Eight times, name on top after eight gets that extra card. One, two, three, four. And eighth and final time. Name on top is gonna be Ron. All right, not much action happening in that number block this time, Ron, but a little extra card going your way. All right, thanks for watching. Thanks for breaking. I'm Joe for jaspyscasebreaks.com. Are we gonna do another one? Yeah, I think we're gonna do another one. So let's make it happen, jaspyscasebreaks.com. Bye-bye.


From the SiliconANGLE Media Office in Boston, Massachusetts, it's theCUBE. Now, here's your host, Dave Vellante. Hello everyone and welcome to this week's episode of theCUBE Insights, powered by ETR. In this breaking analysis, I want to do some explanation. For the past four months, I've been sharing data from a company called Enterprise Technology Research, ETR. I've worked with the SiliconANGLE team to create a pure editorial product that blends the ETR dataset with insights that we've gleaned from theCUBE. We've been getting great engagement and I've been getting some questions that I wanted to address in today's episode. Let me first say that as a longtime industry analyst, I've always valued data-based opinions. So when I met the folks at ETR, I became really intrigued and I thought working with them might be a good way to share some really awesome survey data and then blend it with context from theCUBE's huge observation space where we do 100 shows per year. Today I want to cover six things. The first thing I want to do is answer the question that I get most often, which is, who the heck are these guys? And I think it's really important to understand how and where ETR gets its data.  Then next I want to talk about this thing called NetScore. I refer to NetScore all the time. It's one of my favorite metrics and I'll show some examples and explain what it means and how I use it. And I'll use real and current data on containers, VMware, I got some data on Oracle, AWS and HPE who just announced its earnings. So there's actually content in this episode. It's not just a tutorial, so stick with me here. And then I want to talk about the term market share and what that means in the parlance of ETR. I'm often asked, what is the relationship between ETR and theCUBE? So I obviously want to address that and if that doesn't answer all your questions, I can give you some ways to get more information. So first, who is ETR? ETR is a research company. Actually it's a platform or a product that was built by a company called Eptivity. The key advantage is they do primary market research, first party data, and they have a community of survey respondents that gives them spending intentions data and they survey this base on a fairly regular basis. Currently there are about 4,500 buyers in this survey base and in my experience each quarter about a thousand or so respond to their request for spending data. This group collectively represents nearly a trillion dollars in annual IT spending on enterprise tech. And you can see here there's a nice mix of C-level execs, VPs, IT management. The respondents, they like to participate because those that do, well, they get access to the data in exchange for their information. Now there's no incentive for them to exaggerate their spending intentions. I mean, it's not like, remember the old days of computer pubs where if you spend over a threshold you get a free magazine. So this is legit spending data, spending patterns that ETR vets with historical data. They also pay real close attention to the income statements of public companies and tune their data and forecasts in a way that I'll address later. And you can also see here that the data is global and it comprises a very strong mix of large organizations across virtually all industries and geographies. I mean, it's North America heavy but they've got representation all over the world. And these guys have been at it for 10 years and they're serious data geeks. They have a team of stats folks, AKA data scientists in today's terms who do some really cool things with the data like using regression analysis to compare their spending data with Wall Street consensus. Now they primarily, ETR serves Wall Street customers who are trying to gain an advantage ahead of earnings news coming out and they want to squint through the noise which is kind of what I'm trying to do here. ETR's founder, his name is Thomas DelVecchio and he's essentially created a survey panel on steroids. You know, when I worked at IDC, our holy grail was to create a panel and use it to track spending data. We never got there, it was too hard. So what we did was we did spot surveys on hot topics like data deduplication last decade to see where all the action was. And then periodically we do broader spending intention surveys, but they weren't conducted on a formal quarterly cadence and what DelVecchio did is he flipped this model on its head. What I mean by that is ETR does regular quarterly broad-based spending surveys and then periodically they drill down into the hot areas. The great thing about this model from my perspective is that you can run the analytics and do time series across the data. So way, way more powerful approach. Now there are other panels out there that you can tap into, but ETR has built a platform on top of what in my opinion is the best spending intentions data that I've ever seen. And I got a really nice SaaS product that allows me to cut the data by size of company, geography, market segment, and I can answer questions like are containers killing VMware? And I can answer that question by slicing and dicing the data rather than having to field a completely separate survey. So what I want to do here is I want to take that example and drill into a key ETR metric that I use a lot which is called net score. Now net score represents the intensity of spend for a company.  So what I'm showing here is a cut from the ETR dataset and what I'm actually doing to answer that question that I just proposed, look at, so you see number one in the red, I'm filtering the ETR data by container platforms. So this is organizations that are spending on containers. And you can see number two there, the N is 541 organizations spending on containers. And then number three, I cut the sample by VMware mentions. So out of the folks answering the survey for a given period, I want to isolate on those doing business with VMware and evaluate their spending. Notice number four, which is the net score. That's what I want you to focus on. Net score is a measure of spending momentum, as I said. So specifically for each ETR survey, ETR asks about spending. Are you adopting the platform as new? Are you spending more, spending the same, or spending less, or are you leaving the platform? And they essentially subtract the spending less from the spending more and calculate a net score. And you can see in number five, the net scores over time. And I've superimposed these numbers with shared accounts that are mentioning VMware. Now remember, ETR allows for multiple responses of various VMware solutions. So there again are multiple responses in that shared end. But you can see that VMware's net score is held up around 33 to 34% over a two year period. So there's zero evidence that containers are hurting VMware today in this data. Now prior to 2018, by the way, I kind of ignore those spikes because the shared end is too low. It's like 12 mentions. But the rising number of shared accounts over time is yet another clear indicator of adoption between those container customers and VMware spend. Now I can cut this by size. Company, industry, zillion different ways, but this is everyone in the data set for the October survey. What I want to do now is take a look at what ETR calls market share. Market share in ETR language is a measure of pervasiveness. So they calculate this by taking the number of mentions of a vendor within a sector. They exclude replacements and they divide by the number of respondents within that sector. So what I'm showing here is an example using market share data for analytic databases. So focus on number one, which takes the entire sample from the October survey and then number two and an end of 1,336 respondents. So we choose in number three the data warehousing software segment and then select from the pull down AWS Redshift and compare that with Oracle within that sector. So you can see in the last two years that AWS has rapidly gained share. You can see in number four that the net scores where AWS has a way stronger spending momentum with 62% and negative 3% for Oracle. What I love about this data set is the ease with which I can either call BS or validate a vendor's claim and get ahead of the market by combining the data that we collect on the cube and that we hear all the time with the ETR survey data. And remember last week's breaking analysis, I put up a view showing snowflake which claims it continues to do well despite its apparent overlap with AWS Redshift. And as you might recall, the ETR data clearly confirmed that snowflake was thriving along with Redshift and eating away at Teradata's business. So it confirms their narrative. Let me share another example of how I use ETR market share. HPE just reported earnings yesterday and it missed its revenue targets. And here's a chart that HPE presented as part of its earning package. Now, at the highest level, HPE reports revenue across three major lines, Intelligent Edge, Hybrid IT, and Financial Services. Now, picking on HPE, but you know, I could make this argument with pretty much any legacy computer company or any hardware company. And now the narrative from these companies is we're investing in the new hot areas like Edge and the world is hybrid and that's our opportunity and we are uniquely positioned and we see lots of repatriation from the cloud where people have moved to the cloud but have sort of cloud regrets and now are moving back to us. You hear this all the time from execs at these companies but you sure don't see it in the numbers. Look at the growth rate year over year in HPE's business. Edge and Hybrid IT are both shrinking in this example. Even when you adjust for currency to take out what HPE refers to as tier one sales to the big hyperscalers, which is a business that HPE exited last year. Meanwhile, when you look at AWS and Azure numbers, they're growing at 35% for AWS 59% year over year for Azure last quarter. Now the HPE narrative is we're focusing on margins and exiting low value businesses and to be fair, that's true and it shows up in HPE's gross margins and operating profit and free cash flow. But I have an addition to the narrative which is the cloud is eating away at their business. And while repatriation most certainly happens, it's a figure that's not showing up on the income statement. So I'll look at the ETR data to answer the question, how is the cloud impacting HPE's market share? So here's what I do to answer that question. I filter the data that I'm showing on this chart and I select the cloud computing filter in the upper left from the pull down. I do a second filter right below pulling down and selecting AWS Azure and Google Cloud Platform. So there's 818 respondents in the ETR's October survey that fit that criteria, cloud spenders. And then I click on the market share radio button and pull data in from the January 2010 to the October 19 survey. In the October 2019 survey, you can see that the shared end shows 495 respondents that are also spending on HPE. So nearly 500 HPE responses within 800 cloud accounts. And look at the story. Like many, HPE came out of the downturn with a pent up demand. It announced the public cloud in 2011 which froze the market a little bit. And by late 2014, the market clearly understood that that offering was a fail and HPE exited the business in 2015. And you can see how the cloud is eating away at spending on HPE's products. And you can see the net score of 10.9% in the red underscoring the headwinds that HPE is facing. Now of course, Antonio Neary, whose HPE CEO is doing what he has to do, cutting costs, focusing on higher margin opportunities, adopting an Azure service model, doing stock buybacks. But as I like to say, the data does not lie. Now where it really gets mind blowing is when ETR runs regression models using Wall Street estimates for a public company as an outcome variable and tests that against the covariates and independent variables in its data set. Now these act as predictors. So not only using the data to tell the story of what happened in the past, but using it as a forecasting tool. Okay, so that's most of what I wanted to share with you today. There's a lot more, but let's leave it there for now. I want to address our relationship between the cube and ETR. We're essentially just friendlies. We currently have no commercial relationship, there's no money exchanging hands, there's no other incentives other than we're birds of a feather, so to speak. They give me access to their data and I use it weekly in these breaking analysis segments. And we co-brand the content, the cube insights, powered by ETR. So it's a beautiful fit between what we learned on the cube and this awesome data set. Look, if you find that stuff useful, I encourage you to reach out to ETR. Their website is ETR.plus, or just Google Enterprise Technology Research, or you can hit me up on LinkedIn or Twitter at I'm at D.Valante and I'd be happy to put you in touch. This is Dave Vellante signing out from this episode of Cube Insights, powered by ETR. Thanks for watching everybody and we'll see you next time.