Hello, what's up? We are on twitch. We are live But by the time you see this we won't be man. So just leave a like comment subscribe turn on your post notification bells Man, let's continue to go to family for Chicago to the UK right above me matter of fact. This is my twitch We're not gonna be posting highlights anywhere they save as you can see you just go back on here and replay them fast for rewind Which has all the material before before look police interceptors y'all ain't even seen that yet Come out Friday, you know, I'm saying Which I can go watch it here early if you need to Don't forget we do got patreon. We watch this Monday through Friday. This is where we post stuff that we cannot watch on YouTube line of duty bodyguard Derek Luther only fools and horses things of that nature Don't forget we do got merch as well got mine on the link to all of this is down in the description Can't pay we'll take it away season for episode two. I hope we get spicy man last season was kind of you know legitimate One in seven people in the UK are now self-employed But they earn on average 40% less than company employees The rising cost of living no matter you still free of the constructs of Society and things of that nature thing has left over half of all self-employed workers in worrying levels of debt That's true Stuart McCracken and Elmore Victor are high court enforcement agents. So McCracken is like He liked the new lead for season four They have 11 years experience between them seizing property and collecting debt Right, it's a tough line. It's a tough line. We're looking for a garage apparently Today they're in Liverpool to serve a writ on game of pool I was about to get negative. Let me sit up. Let me sit up soul trader Michael Burton Mr. Burton a mechanic owes just over 2,700 pounds to a former colleague We're looking for M&B motors There's a garage at the address they've been given but it's now called Delph Lane autos So the team ask a neighbouring business for help I'm looking for M&B motors Yeah, Michael Burton Is that Michael Burton This is it mate, this is it Let's go have a shot The agents are in the right place, but the defendant appears to be trading under a different company name This is it Mr. Burton can't or won't pay today The team have the right to remove goods and assets from his business to offset the debt We're after mr. Burton mr. Burton Isn't that a bad confirmation that he is here The man they know denies all knowledge of a Michael Burton I tell you who we are, I know this was the victim I called an important agent So he's trying to get him on the phone if he's not here at the moment because we had to control those Right, okay, we've already spoke to the neighbors and the neighbors have confirmed that he's here The neighbors in the area The man refuses to reveal his identity Because we're here now to take control of goods, sir Right, so can you pray for you are then? Despite the man's denials Stuart and Vic have the right to make peaceful entry into the property Okay, so if you just explain who you are then The man demands to see a copy of the writ What do you want to know I've asked for some ID for yourself Show me Get out I've already explained I don't believe you, sir Right now don't step in there All right, or what's old Let me explain to you for us to show you who's on the route. Yeah, yeah, you gotta identify yourself He's standing on business Stuart ain't stepping in there You don't have a driver's license or anything like that, you know, in that case and we will have to say control Unless you show me what's on that paper then you won't be coming in here. I know that's simple as that means I'll tell you that right now As the man refuses to confirm his identity Stuart turns up the pressure Why being so defensive In this job you're gonna come across all walks of life some people are gonna be truthful and honest Some people are gonna be barefaced liars. It's water off a duck's back to me. If somebody wants to lie to me It makes me feel bad water off a duck's back Stuart You gotta be like early 30s. Why are you using these? Elderly euthanisms. I want to find them out. Is that the right word? The man is determined not to let Stuart and Vic inside the property I don't know what you want Tensions are rising Vic decides to call the police My name is Victor my high court enforcement agent. We had to execute a high court route at a Industrial unit in Merseyside. You know where you at? This ain't Merseyside. He's not a scouser He said Merseyside We need some police assistance, please the defendant is getting very aggressive threatening us Probably brought a good high court written But while Vic is on the phone the man becomes even more agitated You can't get his cars Stuart's van is blocking other cars from getting out of the drive To keep the peace Stuart agrees to move his vehicle In this job, you're gonna meet everybody who's been in debt and some people are aggressive It can be physically aggressive as well, but it's something you've just got to learn to take in your stride Vic keeps the police on the line. Well, yeah, it doesn't want to show any any ID He's shouting now mate. He's just going off his head. Yeah But as Stuart moves the van the man decides to take action of his own He's threatening to block us in. He's not threatening to block us in mate. This is getting ridiculous He forces Stuart's to reverse his van towards the busy main road. I would have just stopped You hit the van and you hit the van I can do with some assistance straight away He's nice in his vehicle. He's ramming our vehicle out of down the drive. He's threatening my colleague to get out here Is that a news crew? Oh, no, that's the crew They put a cause of accident out here a straightforward debt collection Has quickly turned into a volatile situation With the man's aggression escalating will the agents be able to keep the situation under control? Until the police arrived what is he's trying to I'm on my way, man. Don't touch me. Don't touch me Don't touch me voice Stuart McCracken and Elmore Victor were looking to serve a writ on soul trader Michael Burton Elmore was a former colleague 2,700 pounds We're after Mr. Burton Mr. Barton Michael Barton But the man they met at the address listed on the writ told them that he wasn't Michael Burton Are you Michael? No, I've just told you that three times. I'm not Michael. I don't believe you sir Instead he blocked them from entering the garage.   Don't touch me. Don't touch me Now just as Stuart manages to reverse the vehicle safely off the drive a team of police officers arrive on the scene Stuart and Vic explain the situation Well, I go on for some agents. We've been insisted to execute a retic control at this address We've confirmed from the garage behind that it's Michael Burton We just want to know that in when he's he's Michael Burton or if he's just working for him Vic hands the officer a copy of the writ With police officers present the man is finally forced to reveal who he is Michael Burton, what's your name, right? Yes, of course it does Michael Burton. Yeah When he's been questioned he's actually come out and said his name is Michael So it's the defendant were after all the time so mine and Vic's hunches straight away I've come clear Yeah Having confirmed the man's identity the agents must now recover the 2,700 pounds they came for With the police present mr. Burton has no option but to allow Stuart and Vic on to the premises Michael now claims that the goods in the garage don't belong to him, but to a fellow mechanic If he can't prove this is true the agents can start seizing some of his assets Michael claims he has no means to pay his death But Vic needs him to calm down so that he can negotiate a payment plan Just calm down. Listen to me. I can't give you something that I haven't got calm down What can you pay? What can you pay monthly? I think that was a clean calm down But before a payment plan can be put in place mr.  I'm gonna make a phone call now Michael has finally come up with an offer But if the claimant decides it's not enough the agents will have to seize items from the garage Hello, it's Vic Vic calls the office But while he's on the phone Michael's parents and wife arrive to help raise the funds She's gonna get you the rest now me go and get the money Never walk alone Michael's wife goes to the bank to get the rest of the money Minutes later Vic hears back from the claimant All right, thank you very much Michael's offer has been accepted to one in a month 600 today I can't pay the tune I can't pay that 200 now so much one. No you won't Michael Jesus might you might make me speak. I'm trying to talk to you. It's gonna be a control goods agreement Which means the staff stay here Michael's business is safe for now But if he doesn't keep to his repayment plan the agents have the right to return and seize goods The quiet day at the office, but seeing Stuart making a list of goods Starts to irritate Michael Michael's mother steps in to calm her son down 20 minutes later mr. Burton's wife returns with the remaining cash Stuart and Vicks perseverance has paid off But if Michael doesn't keep up with his repayments the agents will be back The number of elderly people living in rented accommodation is on the rise But with rents and living costs increasing year-on-year Nearly half of all retired people are struggling to live off their pensions People age over 60 have an average debt of more than 18,000 power 8 a.m. Isleworth, West London High court enforcement agents Steve Pinner and his son Ben are on their way to carry out an eviction So this morning we have a rick's-off possession against mr. Peter Malcolm Norman and the one other It appears to me that it will be a simple end of tenancy For the last few months the tenants mr. And mrs. Norman have been struggling to pay their rent The county court has sent the tenants an eviction notice But the landlord has now applied to the High Court to speed up the eviction The tenants must leave today. Good morning. Mr. Norman. Yes, my name's Ben. We're here today to repossess the property Mr. Norman house the county court papers in his hand So it's if you stay beyond this date your landlord can ask the court to send a bailiff to evict you According to the county court in bretford. Yes, there are no such applications. That's correct That is the county court. We are from the High Court. I Don't understand what's happening. It's a we were told that we'd be here for another week And that no application has been found anywhere and therefore the county court bailiff. Yes So the matter's been transferred and we are here instead and there is no notice of that as it does say on your possession order Well, I think that's very unfair, don't you? Well, I'm afraid I don't make the rules, sir This is unbelievable. I'm being slow out in the house. I don't know what to say. I I can't believe this We're leaving this place because you can't afford to pay the rent Because we don't get enough money Mr. And mrs. Norman have lived at the house for seven years They now have one hour to pack up their essentials and leave I just can't believe it's come to this, you know We'll tell you a couple in the morning. We've got an hour to get out You're listening to this don't it? We've got an hour to pack a bag and go go to the car Yeah, this one DC these be the ones right here. They're about 60 70 An hour how? You go to the council. All right. Thanks. What's the time? We'll do a time change. It's 8 20. 8 20 well When that first opened the door I thought All is going to happen here. He's standing there. He's paid for a script to read. I'm thinking What's he going to say? Mr. Norman and his wife are both retired and receiving housing benefit. I've got your medicine going in there But following recent welfare cuts their benefits don't cover the rent Do you have a car? Mr. Norman covered the shortfall in his rent with his personal savings until they ran out He has tried to find work But failed It seems to me that all the people who've done all the work and paid all the money are the last people who get what they've paid for over their working lives Being dependent on benefits is not something Mr. Norman has been used to Are you local? We moved here from Q Q Okay, yeah That's not to say we uh My previous job was a caretaker and the house came with a job. It wasn't that I was rich and it was my house Caretaker where? Just over the other side of Q bridge where the uh the big red houses I was there for 19 years Mr. Norman hoped the council would step in before the eviction took place But they've been told they could be rehoused over a hundred miles from home Where rents are cheaper Honestly at this point you gotta do what you gotta do.  You have to In three months contact with the housing department household council. I've had one phone call And that was to tell me I might be going to live in Birmingham Oh, that's not bad The reality of the situation is beginning to take its toll on Mr. Norman Be saying that a cornflake son, I suppose, of mine And it's not my usual problem. I assure you all that stuff It's your consensus being what they are One, two, three. My bad. Hold on real quick. I'mma edit this out. I need them. I'm getting the phone for Phase of it It's It's jay. It's not fair.  So you've got clothing medication And you can't even I know a lot of people be like, okay, just because they are here It's easy to point the finger at them. It ain't them. They're just doing their job They can't do nothing about it. If they don't do it, they get fired as simple as that You know who I'm blaming The benefits that got cut Whoever did that The council for not hurrying up and housing these people Identification I'm the only one I have. Yeah, that's all I spent on It's a very distressing situation especially to people who are maybe more vulnerable They need a little bit more supports and I must say I was happy to give it in any way I couldn't I really did feel for that couple Is there anything else we can help you with carrying down? Sorry couldn't go three months range ago. Well, if I'm a little very well in fact Bus pass. Do you've got your bus pass? I don't know The eviction is almost complete, but Steve and Ben are concerned for the couple's welfare Is this going to be enough suffer a couple of days? That's mom. Yeah. So be honest, mate. I've got some underwear. You've got some t-shirts Yeah, it's going to be cold out. So you want to wrap up warm. It's very cold The worst jobs you get is when when you're involved in having to evict Older people from their properties They don't have the means to draw in money from anywhere else to Top up their rent or anything like that. It was one of those days where you wished you was A different house five miles away Mrs. Norman is concerned about leaving her belongings in the house Come on. That's fine. That's all you know. You want to get them done. It won't get them done.  If you have problems, you can call us our numbers are on the door Yeah, you take that number down. I'll come back. I'll get back if you worry about it. I'm not lost this one You know, it's only a battle There has been a rise in eviction since benefit caps came in force because people on benefits don't have the money or Won't pay the difference in the rents the likes of mr. and mrs. Norman paid into the system and In their time of need, they're not getting the help that they should do So the council should think on that and help the elderly the vulnerable Mr. And mrs. Norman's hour to pack and leave the house is up. Good luck Peter. Thanks. Thanks a lot I know you're only doing your job. If you take care the way that it's happening. Yeah. No, okay Take care Oh The couple now need to find emergency accommodation or could face the night on the streets It's terrible really a couple like that the council should do something for shouldn't they really This case really did hit both me and dad We was completely shocked I went home that night thinking Where are they now is a real horrible situation? Because they were completely with genuine people Steve and ben have faced a heartbreaking situation But in stewarton vicks next case It will be crying Maybe drag like when did they start doing all it is just go to the next episode For each deaths amongst young people aged 15 to 24 have more than trebled in the last 10 years The council definitely don't care about 15 to 24. Yeah Yeah, young More than half have personal debts Including payday loans and credit card bills And many are turning to their families for help Sunny Bolton a Bolton Lancashire High court enforcement agents stewart mccracken and elmore victor Are on their way to serve a writ on a young data Any idea what that you think it could be Yeah, well the thing is miss Amy Evans, right? Student nurse Amy Evans owes just over 750 pounds But this isn't the first time vick has tried to recover the debt Red door, so it's the red door there Stick up there Looks like a nice house though. You know, it's like it's well maintained. So miss Amy Evans is still here. Yeah. Well, yeah The last time vick met Amy she agreed to make monthly installments to remiss the payment Pay the debt But she's defaulted and now vick is back with stewart to recover payment in full or seize goods if Amy can't or won't pay Oh someone in mate, is it? Yeah, very good Hi, good morning, sir My name is the victim icon enforcement agent. I've actually been here before. Yeah. Yeah, Amy lives at home with her mom and dad But it's her uncle who answers the door Is she about She's in bed at the moment. She's just able to wait my cat My cat just took her number two It's like he doesn't care He doesn't care about my well-being. He doesn't care about my nose. Nothing I like I grew up makes like I said, we're here now to execute a high court writ Why? I've got to discuss with her to her names on the writ, sir The writ allows the agents to make peaceful entry into the house Yeah, it's like I said, we we're here now to take control of the writ to control So I said I'll stay here.  Hi Amy, uh Amy, you don't have a surprise. You know what it is The icon enforcement agent is outstanding balance of 750 pounds and 90 pence that needs to be paid today 750.90 There is the amount on there 750.90. We need payment in full today I was paying it though a monthly on your pound Yeah Well, you must have stopped or something Are we not paying it?  You see they weren't seen as odd otherwise so But the documentation shows that Amy has defaulted on her payment plan As you can see here, Amy Payments have been made Seven eight eight eight eight nine the office have been ringing since the 30th of October No reply. No reply. No reply. No reply. No reply. No reply. So there's been many times you tried to contact Yeah, no don't answer any word Well, if you don't answer the phone then that's the reason why we come back There's a lot of young adults out there that are embarrassed of their situation And don't really know how to deal with it. If you want to blatantly ignore it and wait for a high court enforcement agent to come on the door That's what we'll do. Yeah As Amy hasn't been keeping up with her payments, Vic needs her to raise the full 750 pounds she owes But there's a problem Do you want to give your dad a call? No, because he's gonna kill me I've got a choice in the nicest possible way. I know maybe hard During Vic's last visit, Amy's father agreed to pay back some of his daughter's debt On the condition she paid off the rest She's reluctant to ask him for more help But the agents need to settle the case today one way or another In 10 minutes, I'm gonna have to start doing the inventory of goods It's basically I've listed everything that's in the property. It's a value to be removed Um, it's then removed. It's then stored for seven days before it's sold to public auction Yeah, but it's not good We need to see proof of that What do you mean? Because I'm don't buy it. All I've got is what is in my bedroom Which is for your mom's but you'll have to have a sales invoice or she'll have to have a sales invoice to prove that she's paid for them You didn't Well Amy that's silent. There's nobody keeps receipts like that Needs to prove that the possessions in the house are owned by her parents If she can't they could be taken away to offset her debt But stewart has even more bad news If you're doing inventory of goods it goes up to the 1,380 pounds because we even then technically seize the goods I'm afraid The pressure is on I don't know why Young people think that if they not gonna pay it back that it's gonna go away But that unfortunately follows you and wherever you are registered to live that's where we'll go to collect the debt from After 10 minutes, there's still no sign of any payment To its patients is running out She isn't really doing much apart from texting texting texting And so I think it's about time there We're gonna have to start putting our foot down and assessing what we can take control of to Sell a public auction if she can't raise the funds All right guys, I'm gonna have to start taking control of goods. I'm afraid see what it can do Amy's time to raise some funds is up stewart starts to make a list of goods All these were mothers all these I don't need to see some documentation or proof or something like that As stewart makes the inventory, Amy finally decides to call her father for help Can you please stop me just please don't They're not gonna take any minute to get the money. I didn't want to ring your dad All right, it's gonna pay you what amount Amy's father has agreed to pay the debt But as the agents have started the inventory. Oh, come on stewart, you know, you can wave that You ain't even got all the way deep into it. He's probably gonna wave it It might not be enough This is not our first season. We've full seasons deep We know y'all can do it With the offer of 750 pounds in cash stewart and vick Decide to wave the extra fee They wait inside as Amy goes to meet her father Everybody needs help every now and then but some people Do tend to borrow and then have a habit of not paying back And it's a shame that it has to be put on the parent's shoulders to step up For something that isn't their mistake 15 minutes later, Amy and her father return Yeah, uh, you know what's my payment? Sorry, I believe you Yeah, just 750 pounds and 90 pounds and so I'll do your receipt now Dad, I don't want you. I've just asked you, please don't Just wait a day for What's it for? I'm curious Did they say anything or I'm gonna miss 750 750 and 90 pence That's 500 derby Oh, so they're That can definitely bring out the best and worst in people we find in a lot of cases where Parents help out their kids because that's what parents do if they can But that can definitely definitely bring people together or or told them apart It's all done now It's my bad, like come on now Somebody with an ugly cry gonna get me every time Even everybody ugly cries, but I'm just here to laugh at it. That's all my bad I don't mean to laugh at your pain or anything like that. It's just It's just it was funny kind of But the situation is not you know This is my outlook on debt man Don't put anything in credit Don't put don't do none of that if you can't pay for it up front Then it's not meant for you to have honestly.   Put gas on your credit card then pay it back at the end of the month Like the money you would be putting in there put it like to the side See that's the hard thing y'all see money to the side and y'all think oh, I got money to the side. No, you don't that's for gas Cheer Across the uk small to medium-sized businesses are currently owed 67 billion pounds in unpaid invoices Chasing companies for late payments through the courts is costing these businesses an extra 11 billion pounds every year Forcing many into bankruptcy You know when I put a whole little paragraph like we're supposed to read it quickly Nearly a quarter of small or medium and medium-sized businesses have faced bankruptcy due to link payment Chipping Norton oxfordshire high court enforcement agents paul bow Hill and steve. Yeah Get the gang together Are on their way to recover a debt of over 30 000 pounds.  He didn't see that. Where was that at? What episode? The data is a world-renowned racing car team Well, it's 30 000 Pounds plus and it's the uh lotus formula one team Ah lotus formula one They got to be shite. Lotus is our shite It's it if lotus formula one can't or won't pay The agents have the right to remove goods to cover right. They got the money The only thing they're gonna run into is an employee who think they are manager and gonna overdo their job for the debt Where we're actually going would appear to be a technical center So Desperate engines and things like that. I'd be a research facility, which means they're going to be really tight on security Well, just have to use your Silver tongue to get us through the gate Pals or possibly a crowbar All visitors must report security. I hope this is going to be good, isn't it? The entrance to the facility is protected by an electric security gate Exactly as we thought it might be.  See look the more fuss we have the better My name is Paul Bowhill and a high court enforcement agent. Okay. We have a writ to serve against formula one Okay Is there someone with parent authority that we could speak to? Yeah, have you got a copy of the document? I have. Yeah Do you like to come over to reception? This is looking real friendly. This job. It was very different. It was going to a huge complex Multi-million-pound company security everywhere It was a different job than the normal run of the mill Lotus formula one team's financial troubles have been widely publicized And the agent's visit hasn't come as a surprise This isn't the first writ the company has had to deal with recently Hello Hi there. Who are you here on behalf of? Muscet engineering right, okay Yes known to us We completely honor the debt want to honor the debt But joe lean the site manager has some bad news for paul Lotus formula one reportedly owes 2.7 million pounds In unpaid taxes and they've already taken action What's happened is is that hmrc Have done an application for administration, which is this document here and we're held under the moratorium This application and what they've been advising us to do is to make any high court enforcement officers aware of the situation Okay The moratorium means that lotus formula one are protected from settling any debts While they're being pushed towards administration by revenue and customs And I know it looks very glamorous that we've gone to a race, but trust me put this on an absolute wing in a prayer Yeah, it's okay. We understand that The odds seem stacked against them But will paul and steve find another way to collect the 30 000 pound debt? It does seem like there ain't no other way. It's over Will they end up driving away with a dream car? Because we had this vision of going driving out through the game of the formula one car On the back Oh, right, okay Shot to pieces now that Court enforcement agents paul bow Hill famous racing We don't need it We completely honor this is that lotus formula one owed revenue and customs Why is there a recap right now? 2.7 million pounds in unpaid taxes And the company was facing administration proceedings in the high court Most financial activity had been suspended including paying off its creditors We had this vision of going driving out through the game of the formula one car On the back But with a writ to collect 30 000 pounds paul doesn't want to walk away empty-handed It's the customs who started this rally Yeah, and we hoped that what would have happened is that rena would have come aboard Our funding would all be in place. We'd have had time to make payments to all our suppliers Jolene claims the debt will be settled once the new shareholder reno is on board But paul wants to resolve this case today That's 30. That's big enough to start in-house IP to make sure that we've got the basis coming He calls an insolvency advisor Hello, that's paul bow Hill Is we've just turned up for a 30 000 pound writ The moratorium order we've got a copy of and we've also got a copy of the court papers And the hearing was adjourned to the 18th At which point either the customs will come to an agreement for things to be resolved or then put it into administration So you think we can still assign a controlled goods agreement The advisor tells paul that they are entitled to seize goods after all As long as they leave them on site until after the insolvency hearing takes place It's nice to have the backup of the reality Forewarned is 400 Right, that's lovely. Thank you. Bye Now paul must tell site manager jolene the news I've just spoken to my advisor. She said just take a formula one car anyway Okay There must be an item here of value that we can identify and photograph Could you do a warrant of control on something? Yeah, I think that's exactly what it is.  See these are w employees like y'all not overdoing it Y'all know what it is man. Just go ahead You know what I'm saying? Like go ahead get your little picture. It ain't my money Shoot Yeah, that's exactly to control good. Yeah to use the right term. That's okay. We'll be happy to do that That's not no problem at all Now steven paul needs to search for assets that will offset the 30 000 pound debt But there's a problem As well as owing millions in unpaid taxes Lotus formula one has over 600 000 pounds worth of extra debt to other creditors And some assets on site have already been ring fenced The only asset that we've really got that we can show you is a show car. That's fine. Um, it the value around 290 000 in our books And we can take it down to them The agents are in luck A show car is still available and will more than cover the 30 000 pounds on the writ The type of car that we'd normally see is is the family saloon or a works fan or Anything it might be more extravagant, but the car that we were presented with Was was a pure racing machine Let me see you paul and steve step into one of the company's workshops Relax. We're not taking anything. We'll be all right to tariff behind a transit God, oh I do like nice cars and it was nice to actually see The formula one car and actually looking at the engineering that takes place To get those things working. Can you take a foot because you know where you're looking just yeah 91 The agents find the replica racing car. They've been offered. Yeah, that's good enough Once listed on a writ of control it can be seized if the debt is not paid off But joleen is concerned You're okay, I really have to sign it if anybody gets smart over it You can give them my phone number the mobile number there because it's quite simple really We understand all the ins and outs, which is why we're here because i've been involved in insolvency for 25 years The case has been resolved for now The agents must wait to see whether reno step in as they'd hoped and pay the company's creditors If the deal doesn't happen the agents could be back to take away one of the most unusual assets They've ever seized We achieved the best result that we could get out of the circumstances Because there's a pending administration in the background We were able to take photographs and say this formula one car It is now under our control Until such a time as a the debt is paid Or be the administration kicks in We've acquired the control of the shareholders and loaders at a frontier unit. Okay Next time no sir, you know next time until a little even like comment subscribe turn on your post notification bells, man Make sure y'all sub if this y'all first time watching man and y'all not sub man. We almost said 60 000 man I appreciate that man What what what what what like there is no reward without the grind and I appreciate that type You get me


Well, ladies and gentlemen, now I invite Mr. Sudhakar Rao, Director of Branding Iqfi Group, to share his insights on branding challenges in a polarized world. Well, Mr. Rao has been an accomplished brand strategist, a startup mentor, and a social media advisor. At Iqfi, Sudhakar Rao heads branding for the entire group that includes 11 Iqfi universities, 9 Iqfi business schools, 7 tech schools, 7 law schools, and a huge distance learning program. Thank you so much, Mr. Rao, for joining us today and being a part of the India Brand Conclave. Over to you. Thank you very much, Bhavna, and good evening to you and everyone who has logged in today for the India Brand Conclave 2020. It's my second time to be speaking on the IDC. Last year also I was there, and it's a great opportunity to be here, learn and contribute at the same time. Today, I'm going to talk about the branding challenges in a polarized world, and I have a small presentation to take you through. This is the presentation I would like to start with. Am I visible? Am I visible? Yes. Is my presentation visible? Good. Well, last week I was on a jury called the Boat Room Challenge for B school students who were supposed to study a case and make a presentation for solution, and that was the case on the college. So the students from I am Amdabad and I am Kozikot and other primary schools were there, and I was a jury. And what I noticed primarily there was that some of the students were making inferences that the toothpaste market is de-growing basically because certain brands are not perceived to be Indian. While the data collected is of one, the inference is something else. I think everybody is trying to very gently put in a conclusion that there is nationalism for even toothpaste. I think that inference is particularly wrong because there are not many people who know that Colgate is foreign. I think Colgate has become a household name. The inference which is right is that people are looking for benefits, people are looking for a specialist segment kind of toothpaste like sensitive or herbal or Ayurvedic, so on and so forth. I think some kind of polarization is going to hit all of us at some time, and even the top 1%, 2% of the society are also going to be affected in some way. And this was one of the examples which I learned last week. And therefore, if we do not correct it, that becomes the normal, unfortunately. And therefore, our topic today drives a lot from this particular aspect of challenges for all of us that lie ahead in handling brands, not only handling brands, but also in society. As we grow, we learn, we try to think that there is a school of thought for ourselves because that is the amount of learning that we have. And we believe we try to stick to our identities over there and think that this is all we know. It's like my well of water is the deepest because I live in this well, something akin to that kind of logic. So biases are but natural. And therefore, identities grow out of those biases. There are possibilities of having different views because you will have a different facet of body of knowledge that you learn initially. And therefore, you can have a different view. Different views are pretty common and sometimes it results in conflicting behaviors. This is all a byproduct of growth or civilization. But if you tend to follow your leaders so much and add masculinity to your hero and the iconization, sometimes it will result in toxic positivity and also fatal optimism. Not only fatal optimism and positivity, but negativity towards others. And that's where the polarized world begins to take birth. Anthropologically, we are all very, very different fundamentally. Man who was born in one location has grown to different locations by way of extension, by way of growth, by way of exploration. And then we all have picked up regions. We all have picked up different schools of thoughts now called religions. Therefore, as we move forward, it's only a melting pot of these differences that are carried. So differences are bound to be there, which is pretty human to be different. It also means that there will be lots of chaos and then we have nation states. Therefore, in order to manage these chaos, we have built for ourselves what is called loyal order. We have constitutions to go by. We have behavior which can be controlled. Sometimes it could be disturbing behavior. Across various faiths, colors, caste and creeds and everything, all kinds of differences will have to be controlled by a particular set of loyal order. And perhaps that is what is called constitution or rules and regulations that we need to go by. In today's world, we have the growth of internet that is exploding. We have smartphones whose usage is becoming very, very prevalent. And social media is extremely popular. And everybody is putting in their own ideas, their own likes and dislikes and thought processes. Therefore, it's an overcrowded thought processes space out there in social media. And sometimes your thoughts encroach mine and therefore it is becoming thought encroachments. And folks who have agenda to make use of all these overcrowded spaces and create inflammatory situations, they are using tech, they are using bots. And therefore, they may be called troll factories. Evolutionary growth, as I have mentioned just now that we grow and we have various differences, that should not be mistaken as fault lines. And for political reasons, we may say it's a fault line, but fundamentally it's an evolutionary mutation. The human propensity to mingle has to be taken as a signal for us for growth. Politically, assuming that people of a different religion, we have to be thrown out of the window on a certain date, then this genesis of hatred will not stop anywhere. Eventually, the guy living in street number one will not like the guy in the other street. And then it will come to the color, then it will come to the height, then it will come to the trust. It will not end anywhere. A brother will like or dislike another brother or hate a cousin. So it will come to the family, it will come into the room, room number one will not like room number two. So this has to be stopped somewhere. So the genesis of hate has to be understood and stopped at various stages in our society and in our discourse. Yes, trolls, they generally search for negatives in everything. Differences are a different story, but searching only for negatives is a very important characteristic feature of trolls. As I said, you can always criticize various responses, we can criticize various views, but it is based on a reason. And if it is based on unreasonable expression of anger, then that is nothing but troll. We don't have to like everything, we don't have to dislike everything. And sometimes we may have to put down certain aspects of atrocities committed on the weak by the so-called strong. Some domination, some oppression, some assault, everything has to be put down. But troll is of a different nature altogether. I'm trying to differentiate what is troll and what is not a troll. The recent tennis advertisement was pretty good in my view and in most of the people in the advertising world find it really good. It is honest, truthful and decent. It is actually not informative. It is not repulsive or wilder. It is not causing any widespread offense. Least of it, it is not having love jihad. Only an agenda of politics probably could bring in that kind of jargon and create some tension and catch the attention and throw the whole plan out of there. The advertising standards council of India has also said everything is fine with the advertisement. The clean sheet was given by many. We need to understand that these interfaith marriages are reality and India is built on love but not hate. Yes, there was no love jihad in this. It was only celebrating coming together of different faiths. Now, people who find fault with the timing of the advertisement or sensitivity analysis or various things, they are not going to be of any great value in my view. And I would like to grant it to the titan that they would have done sentiment analysis. They would have done clusters of opinions easily gathered. But I think they did not stay close for which the brand stood or for which the brand stated its purpose about. The special managers act of 1954 by constitution actually guarantees this and therefore there cannot be, I'm sure there can be a differing view, but we cannot actually put into force by saying that this has to be stopped or we give it different color or by a different name saying it is going to be banned. There is a last year survey of brands in motion 2019, have certain expectations on the brands that 74% of the consumers want the brands to take a stand on the issues that matter to them. What about these expectations? Do we only go by the trolls or do we go by these expectations which are controlled measured scientific studies of expectations of their consumers? So brands are expected to find their purpose and lead with it. They stand for mutual respect and also work on local action for global impact. This is a huge expectation by the consumers. 83% of them believe that brands are capable of providing stability in this unstable world either by use of technology or by use of various methods that they can probably abate the societal ills. 83% is a huge expectation from the consumers, so we need to go by this. Now, some of the experts say that India is not ready for woke advertising. I'm going to say that never India is going to hold a placard and say that we are going to be ready for woke advertising. Now you come and start advertising. I think that's not going to be a feature at all. So the responsibility of the brands as I have explained in the survey is also that to upkeep the conscience of an average citizen, they need to undertake woke advertising from time to time. As we know, agile advertisements were anti-totalitarian and they were criticized. Tampons were found very different. The response was very, very different by certain religious groups. Well, we all know this popular advertising of unhate campaign of United Colors of Benetton. These are part-breaking advertisements. They have shown to the world that hate is not going to unite us, but then yes, this is another extreme way of building their narrative. Last year, Sirf Excel advertisement of Rangalai Sun was also criticized, was also trolled heavily, but they stood their course and they did not withdraw the advertisement. They showed the spine and said the world, told the world that they really believe in the purpose and therefore they continued the advertisement. Now the creative plots that you can choose for your communication can be really black and white always. It's not possible. I think the brands will graze on these gray avenues as well for brand advertising. That is where drama is possible as long as they don't hurt people, as long as they don't undertake an assault on people's sentiments. And therefore, the gray avenues are a clear yes for the brands in their communication. Now lasting brands move people, not just goods. This is a very important thing which we learned from the 2018 publication by the founder of Patagonia. Though invest more in people in the processes, brands should be inside out and not outside in. That is the way it has to move from attitudinal to behavioral. Commanding customers to influencing them through saliency, orthodox to unconventional and episodic to perpetual. I think those who believe in building brands for a long, long time will have to follow some of these methods. Whether we like it or not, these brands are going to talk about the social change on the context of the day. Advertising is going to be the mock piece. Hence, we should not be surprised when they articulate some of these social concerns. Yes, there are mistakes. It's not that all brands are getting it right. There are certain mistakes when somebody says that we cannot serve in Nagaland and saying that it is outside India, definitely they need to apologize. And certain brands which stereotype women, which show them as objects of desire, they also have to be pulled down or criticized or put down. Yes, everybody is not getting it right. Now, what is the root cause for these polarization, root cause for these trolls? I think it is about the rigidity and the straight jacketedness of one nation, one food, one dress, one thinking for everyone or one culture for everyone. I think it is going to be a creative fear psychosis also of not accommodating everyone. I think this is the root cause and I think we need to have some kind of relaxation, some kind of give and take on this. So otherwise, this artificially creates fault lines and some of the political parties are going to prey on the same. Whenever negativity happens, I think we need to understand the trolls. We need to understand the agenda behind the trolls. As I said, it is going to be only looking at negatives. Now, when you analyze the trolls, you will understand why 85,000 fake accounts were created to influence our responses in the Sushant Singh Rajput's death or murder, as it has been alleged. I think we should not immediately stop it. We should have the patience to deal with it. We should use technology to understand the trolls and unveil the face, the real face behind these trolls. Some of the brands have already mentioned that they are not going to advertise on those TV channels or digital channels which are spewing hate. They don't want to associate with toxicity. Amal, Parleji, Bajaj or Dollar, I think Zolato is also sticking its neck out. It is actually saying those things without any hesitation. It is showing a lot of spine. Bingo was also trolled recently. I think there is a way and a method to handle these things, that is, one in terms of patience, other in terms of technology and a lot of logic and reason. What the trolls do not have? They do not have logic. They don't have patience. And what we have is a lot of patience and a lot of logic and reason. I think this is the way we can counter the trolls and we can create a very positive environment for the brands to thrive in. Politics will come in go but a fair social change promoting human values is going to stay and businesses will definitely associate and promote with the human values and that is what brands are expected to do. Absolutely. Mr. Rao, we are just waiting for your conclusions since we are exceeding on the time. Your experience and expertise is so high. We definitely love you to take your time but concluded at the same time. Over to you, sir. Thank you, Bahram. There is a hunger in our world for real intimacy and experience according to Philip Kotler and brands are expected to display this hunger for being very authentic, very human, people oriented kind of measures and activities. Supposing a brand is standing for a purpose, I think it should not be just online or social. It should be on the ground as well 365 days that purpose should be upheld in all its activities. For example, a brand stands for hygiene for children then they should get into all the pockets of children, all the geographies of children, where they reside, where they inhabited and look at the touch points and create that hygiene factor and then advertise the same on television or on digital. Then the purpose is throughout, the purpose is consistent. Otherwise, it's going to be only for the sake of advertising or it's going to be a facade and then some of the people fail to even keep up with that facade in the wake of trolls. So it's got to be authentic, only then it will work for us, for all the brands. We need to have hope that this negativity shall also pass and in the end, I would recommend that if you believe in a purpose, believe it for long, even if it means sacrificing everything. I'm nobody to sit down judgment on tanishk advertising, but definitely there is something wrong for the second time when they pulled out their five cracker advertisement, I think there is something seriously wrong happening over there. If you really believe in something, we should believe even if it means sacrificing everything. Thank you very much and if I have any questions, I would love to take them right now. Thank you.


Hello everybody, I am Dr. Manali Muthar, junior resident in the Department of Radio Diagnosis Dr. Vithal Rao, VK Party Foundation, Medical College and Hospital in Ayurveda Nagar. I will be presenting a paper on assessment of blunt abdominal trauma through CT imaging a comprehensive review. The aim of this study is to study the case of abdominal trauma in context of age of sex distribution, mode of injury that is accident, fall, assault, etc., clinical presentation, role of investigation, organ involvement and associated injuries. The third most prevalent cause of mortality regardless of age is still trauma. Clinical findings are often unreliable and have low sensitivity for diagnosis of intraperitonal injuries following blunt trauma. Ultrasound may be used as an initial diagnostic modality for suspected blunt abdominal trauma. CT is accurate in detection and quantification of hemoperitonium and more sensitive in detection of solid organ injury which is useful in management of most patients. Helical CT is the best diagnostic modality in providing information at the same time it takes for a complete USG abdomen. CT is the sole modality for hemodynamically stable patients with blunt abdominal trauma or patient who stabilizes after initial resuscitation. CT has become imaging of toys in patients with blunt abdominal trauma due to high accuracy in abdominal visceral injuries and retroperitonal injuries in hemodynamically stable patients. Materials and method, the study of 50 cases of blunt abdominal trauma was conducted prospectively during the period of 7 months from December 2022 to June 2023 in Dr. Vithal Rao V.K. Parthir Foundation's Medical College and Hospital, Ahmednagar. Patients of all age and sex who were referred to our department after blunt abdominal trauma were potential candidate for enrollment in this study. Inclusion criteria included clinical suspicious of intraabdominal injury, hemodynamically stable patients, multi-trauma patients. The inclusion criteria was a clinical suspicious of intraabdominal injury, hemodynamically stable and multi-trauma patients. Exclusion was all that's on arrival. Philips 16 slice CT machine was used. The technique was CT, abdomen was performed with Philips 16 slice CT equipment for intravenous contrast enhancement, non-ionic water soluble iodinated contrast IOXOL was given in the dose of 1 ml per kg. A pitch of 2 and a reconstruction interval of 1.5 to 2 mm were used as the scanning technique. For few cases, an enhanced study was done prior to the contrast study with delayed incorporated whenever there was a suspicious kidney or urinary tract injury. Individual organ injuries were created according to the American Association for the Surgery of Trauma Injury Scale. The results are first the age by distribution. In less than 10 years, there was only one case was recorded from 11 to 27. From 21 to 30, 20 cases were recorded from 31 to 40, 16 and from 41 to 53 cases from 51 to 62 cases were recorded. And from over the age more than 60 years, a single case was recorded. So the maximum cases were recorded in the age group of 21 to 30 and 31 to 40 years. This is the sex wise distribution which shows that there was a male predominance as compared to the female. The male accounting for the 84% and the female accounting for only 16%. The mode of injury first the road traffic accident, they were maximum that was about 56% followed by fall which was 22% and then assault 18% and the least common were the road traffic accident. This is the other bar diagram showing the mode of injury. The clinical presentation that were considered abdominal pain, abdominal distension, vomiting, hypertension that was systolic BP less than 100, tachycardia that is pulse more than 100, hematuria, breathlessness and chest pain. The number of cases maximum had the complaint of abdominal pain. And then as well as tachycardia followed by abdominal distension and hypertension. The similar bi diagram showing that maximum people presented with abdominal pain and tachycardia and then the abdominal distension. This is a bar, the pie chart showing the organ involvement. The single organ involvement were maximum that was 64% and that of the multiple organ injury was 28% and no organ injury was 8%. Then the distribution with hemoperitonium, the visceral injuries with hemoperitonium were 34, without hemoperitonium were three and isolated only hemoperitonium without any injury were nine. The distribution of visceral injuries for the maximum visceral injuries that were observed was clean that were 24 followed by liver that was 14 and then renal. Then the CT grading of the solid organ was done that was a grade one, two, three, four, five on the basis of the American Association of the trauma. Then associate injuries were also noted. The maximum associated injuries were with the extremity there followed by the thoracic thoracic and this is the axiol and the coronal CT showing hypodense areas in the hypodense areas in the screen, which are consistent with the splinic laceration, the NCCT and the CECT showing the capsular hematoma in the screen, the CT showing a hypodense area in the head of the pancreas and the subsequent CT scan reveal the presence of a psotosis formation of the in the head of the pancreas. These the CECT showing irregular linear, low attenuating area in the liver consistent with the lacerations and the CT showing the grade two renal injury. The discussion, the difficulty in imaging abdominal trauma is to distinguish between injuries that need immediate surgical intervention and tools that may be treated conservatively. In this study, the youngest patient was eight year old and the oldest was 65 year old. The abdominal trauma is more common in age group of 21 to 30 that was about 40% and followed by 32% in the age range 31 to 40 years. RTA being the most common cause followed by the fault and assault. Abdominal pain, tachycardia and abdominal distension are the most common clinical features in all abdominal pain. Abdominal trauma patients presence of these signs and symptoms for its immediate attention from primary system and timely definitive treatment are abdominal trauma. In my study pattern of injury, the pattern of injury are spleen for is the most common followed by the liver in polytrauma patients. Abdominal trauma is more commonly associated with extremity injuries. These are my references.


Welcome to E4M Creative Zone. My guest today is someone who loves the challenge of balancing the strategic needs of its client with the creative expression of their brand. Pleased to have with us today Venkata Giri Rao, the Chief Creative Officer of PML Vinehurst, South East Asia and India. Hi Venkata, how are you? How have you been holding up with the lockdown? Awesome, thank you for having me here. We've been holding up surprisingly good when we started off and got into this. None of us knew how it's going to shape up and nobody imagined that it would be going on for so long. So for that we adapted surprisingly quickly and got into group, so we're doing good. So first I want to start by speaking to you about how it's been creating amidst remote captivity and some lockdown lessons or learnings that you can share. Okay, so I can talk to you at multiple levels, at an agency level, things have never been better in fact. We've been on our best work streak in the last 3-4 months, which kind of surprised us also because the moment we got into what do you call work from home mode stuff started moving faster in fact. There have been a lot of campaigns that really went big for us, went viral, a lot of client appreciation mails, a lot of new challenges coming in and it's been quite incredible actually. It's also because I think we got into the lockdown and we've been onboarding a lot of clients, new clients that we've won. From Colgate to Adele to Pepsi Foods to Sipla and these are all huge clients, so the opportunities are huge and they also push you. So it's just that we entered this particular lockdown with momentum like never before and we've also managed to convert a lot of these opportunities into very interesting campaigns and bus worthy work. So that's been good for us. So that's at an agency level and I can tell you personally for me I've been like thriving. I'm enjoying the lockdown like I wouldn't say lockdown is work from home because firstly I'm a home body so that's a personal thing. But I think one of the things is it's made work far more focused when you're at office what happens is you tend to get involved in a lot of drive-by shooting kind of problem solving.  So it's just interruptions throughout the day versus now you can kind of block off time between your meetings and you really kind of there's no interruptions in that sense. So you tend to be more productive and it's kind of cleaner so there's a lot less what do you call disruptions in that sense. So your thinking is more pure and your output is far better. So I've been like really endless of course normal stuff like no travel and Right. Tell me also speaking about clients how clients approach this entire situation. Yeah so I'll come to that. So clients are it's been a very interesting kind of like I said it is when we got in nobody kind of expected it to be so long right. And I think the one learning that everybody's been getting is that things are changing right. Literally you're expecting it OK fine so you get in and then you kind of say I need to react in a certain way. And then you realize a month down the line you realize this is going to be a little longer than I thought. I don't need me job right. And that's also from a major reaction it becomes a short term reaction to become then you start thinking midterm. Then suddenly you're hearing maybe this will continue for two years. Who knows how long right. Then you're thinking long term right. So I think like us I think even clients have been kind of trying to cope with this and purely from a work from home situation. It's kind of interesting. I think we kind of you end up having a lot of calls where you know you see it's like walk and your personal life colliding. And that happens in clients and that happens at your end.  I mean at one point it used to seem like OK fine. It's still new right. But now it's kind of OK fine. It's just it's my ground so you get to the stuff the program right. So clients have adopted well and even teams for instance internally in the agency also it's been varied. I think frankly this is going to be because people are working from home. It is entirely a function of one is your personal preference. Do you try even what do you call a company or are you kind of do you thrive in solitude. Then it also depends on what where you're stuck. You're working and you're kind of got a lot of people at home. Then it's also whom you're stuck with. So I think it varies. That's one of the things so that that's one part to it. Then of course there are stresses. You can you can sense it. It is not easy people living on their own managing their without maids managing their home stuff. So you're having conversations every day. So what's also robbed. I think what has happened is that because because of the zoom fatigue and call fatigue people end up calling each other only for walk. So in office there's a naturally there's a bit of a pressure cooker gasket situation where the pressure gets released with these casual conversations. Wonderful conversations over tea. You just kind of interact as friends. So all that gets kind of reduced right. So so it becomes a little transactional. So you you detect those kind of stresses in the system and you're kind of trying to make it fun make it light catch up. But yes it is like I said if there's one thing that has kind of surprised me it's how productive we all managed to be inspired of everything else and how work seems to have kind of become bigger better. In this lockdown. Right. It's going to take us through some of your work work down amidst lockdown including your work for Colgate and how it all came together. Sure thing. Like I said I think the quite a few campaigns. I can talk for instance we did a recently we did a campaign for parachute advanced something called the chumpy beats challenge. So basically Indian youngsters are considered among the most stressed in the entire world. Even before lockdown and post covid it was it only got worse everybody was kind of nowhere to go your stack at home and parachute is a bit of a legacy band. So the challenge is how do you connect with them. So we kind of dug up this head massage ritual called the chumpy and we kind of repackage it for them as a tick tock challenge right. It's an old world ritual. We repackage it as a new age challenge and went to where the youth are on tick tock. So I think it just blew up right in just two three days. It kind of hit some 13 billion views right and now it's at last counted some 27 million views and the number of people in hundreds of millions in terms of hashtag videos and usage and stuff like that. So that's one of the things that kind of completely kind of just took off. We were also surprised. Then of course there's the Colgate dentist for me. That's a pretty interesting thing on the lockdown. That's one of the things that I was talking about midtown long term right when you get in of course Colgate was keen to do a film talking about spreading their smiles and stuff like that which we did of course. But what was interesting was that we had an inkling that this thing is going to go on long. So the question is yes you're not going to be able to produce much stuff but more importantly is there a this whole thing about essential services with what we're allowed and a lot of things and it's funny that dentist were not part of the essential services. And secondly if you need to look after your dental hardware and care for it with this Covid fear you're not going to be feel very comfortable going to a dentist. So we said basically how do you kind of allow it. We thought that seeing a dentist or caring for your teeth is essential. It can't be a non-essential service. It is essential as Colgate has a brand that's up to your smile. So we fundamentally we built a platform we kind of enabled people to consult dentists. So Colgate put in a whole panel of dentists hundreds of dentists across India and we kind of literally launched a platform within weeks where you could seek out consultancy on the phone, on video, reach out to a dentist, show them the teeth, have your teeth looked at. So it's a very good example of a product, an FMCG product suddenly behaving like a service which is what allows us to do. And it's a and BML does connections we are very what do you call hot driving on the connection piece where today's consumer is connected in a million different ways. We each have a brand. So everything becomes a touch point for us to push the brand service experience. And this kind of this came up. This was a proactive initiative, but the client kind of loved it and it just happened in two, three weeks. It kind of happened. So that's one for Colgate. And then we've done a couple. We just did a campaign for IDBI Federal Life Insurance. So they wanted to talk about children's insurance. So what contextually right now the fears people's fears are at an all time high. So while it does seem like you want to think about stuff like life insurance and in a more serious way and, you know, you're considering your options. But the question is, what is it? What is the positive message that you could give? You don't want to scare people into people are already scared, right? You don't want to scare them. So we were very keen to what you call make sure that the message was very positive. So the whole point about children is that they are fearless, right? While parents are fearful of the future, children are exactly the opposite. They're fearless about the future, right? So when you think when you talk about jobs, you talk about losing jobs, machines coming, automation, you start worrying about that. There's pollution. Of course, a lot of fears are legit. There's pollution and there's a lot of shortage and we all worry about it, right? But kids are kind of innocent in that sense and they're super bright and enthusiastic. And they look at the, they hear about technology and they get excited, right? They see it as a solution. We think of the problems, they think of solutions, right? So for us, that was a very interesting dynamic in that sense, right? So we really kind of thought it would be great to contrast these opinions, these attitudes in fact, right? Parents versus... So we did a campaign based on the children's attitude compared to the parents' attitudes. And the entire campaign called Future Fearless, right? How do we Future Fearless? Something as a brand ambassador. So that also was done in the lockdown. We just finished filming the camps, the campaigns going on ahead. So there's a lot of interesting and we are connecting again for Dell and stuff. And there's a lot of campaigns happening. But like I said, it's like suddenly because we've got all these brands on board in the lockdown, while we're working from home, you're Dell, you're Colgate, PepsiCools, SIPLA. The opportunities are much bigger, right? Like even for SIPLA, we did a campaign for a product, for a specialist pregnancy care brand, Mama Expert, right? There again, it's very interesting because there's a whole side to moms. Like this whole mom-baby world is a shiny happy world where it's all positive. Everybody's happy, the baby's smiling, mom's smiling. But when you get down and check on the internet, there's a side to motherhood that is out there, but that doesn't get acknowledged in public conversation, right? And we felt that it was important for us to... And we meant to be guilty for it, for feeling some of the thoughts that moms feel. I mean, I'm not talking about having to... It's not true to feel so, right? But moms feel guilty, right? And it's a huge burden on their heads. Not only are they feeling extreme duress, but they're also feeling bad about feeling the dutrus, right? So I think there again, we said that we need to kind of find a way to take the guilt, take the burden off moms. So our entire campaign was based on actual conversations on the net, real conversations, hard conversations, and how we dramatized it in a very interesting form, right? For moms with love. So the whole point is to show the real sides of moms, the real side of moms. And I think we're talking to millennial moms, younger moms, and for them, they don't want the shiny, happy version of things, right? They can handle the truth. They can give out the truth, they can belt out the truth, and they can handle the truth, right? And that's where the authenticity comes, and that's where you're able to connect. This is where our entire campaign was based on the real side, right? The side that doesn't get spoken about. Yeah, so that's some of the words, just some of the words that we've been doing, even Pepsi, Lays, I don't know if you're familiar with that. We just like last week, it went viral. There's a, what do you call it? Heart Box campaign where we created, digitally we created a, called it a lot of brands that are doing good work during the lockdown, right? And we thank them, dedicated packs, Lays packs designed specifically, and we're calling out some socialists, it trended in Twitter. So I think, yeah, yeah, yeah. So it's a pure Instagram campaign. So it's like different kinds of campaigns, whether it's a TikTok thing where it blew up on TikTok, or it's an Instagram thing, or it's like a bit more of a brand restater, or a relaunch where you do a film and do that. So there is a lot of action happening. I think we can never be as busy as we are now. Amazing. So this entire scenario has brought in a great deal of upheaval and the way we work. So where do you see the range of opportunity here, for the industry? So that's pretty interesting. I think, see, one of the things is green shoots are just something new coming up. And while, of course, that is also happening, I think one of the things is also there's a bit of a reprioritization happening, right? Because what happens is marketing behavior changes customer behavior in that sense, right? And money, again, cheeses attention. So we are just kind of trying to figure out basis this lockdown because of this work from home, because of the fear, how customer behavior is changing, right? So suddenly there are some categories, literally like a yo-yo, right? Some categories have suddenly unexpectedly kind of shut up, right, in terms of people wanting to buy, people wanting to engage, e-com, personal tech. A lot of different categories have suddenly become very hyperactive. At the same time, there are some categories that have kind of taken the backseat. This is a matter of reordering priorities. So yes, there is a, the interesting thing is that for digital, how it's translating is that, I read somewhere, it's a very interesting quote that they said that it's almost like three years of digital transformation got enacted in three months, literally, like in three months three years of transformation happened, right? So it's been great for digital, and for us also, we have a, what do you call, CX practice, just platforms, with platforms that people for clients as the e-com practice, and we're seeing suddenly there's so much traction happening and we're able to give solutions to clients where three, four months back, it was still just kind of taking off or we had a robust practice, but now it's like suddenly everybody wants time for that, right? So I think in terms of how the green shoe, there's a lot of interesting opportunities that are coming up, right? So even in terms of business opportunities, I just talked about, right? Even in terms of brand opportunities, right? A lot of brands that have been doing kind of work, not necessarily to sell their stuff, but also to get into good books of people. I mean, that's a whole world we are saying it, but I think brands have been winning a lot of love from customers also, right? So there is that part of it also. And I think in terms of one more green shoes of opportunity, slightly a different kind of opportunity, but I would say that smaller budgets is a good opportunity. It's actually an opportunity because it forces everybody to focus, right? Whereas when you don't have the discipline of smaller budgets, you kind of want to chase everything. You want to be always on. You want to chase every topical day. You want to do everything for every occasion. Whereas now you say that, listen, I've got all these challenges and I've got just this much budget. What do we do, right? So it forces the client also to be kind of much sharper in focus. It forces us also to be far more creative in that sense, saying that, okay, this is our one shot. We are not going to get a second and a third shot in this quarter or in the first half of the year. So it also forces us to be creative, which is also cool. So I think there are a lot of opportunities coming up. I think it fundamentally is a function of which side of the opportunity you're on or your agency is on. And that's what decides how good or bad you feel about it. But I think there is enough opportunity. I think even clients also like categories, like I said, hygiene is becoming so big and everybody's getting into hygiene, right? Like there's the other day, right? The Asian Paints is kind of doing some toilet cleaners and floor cleaners. So everybody's getting into hygiene. There's a face, sanitizers. So that's become a huge thing, literally, right? So you could argue that that's a temporary fleeting thing, but it is what it is, right? And now as a thing, there is a need, right? People are the biggest fear that is as we open up, is people are having to get out of their cocoons and step out into the world, right? You're having to actually go out there, right? So then what all does it mean? How do you reassure people? What are the fears that are emerging, right? So there's a lot of different ways of looking at it besides the digital transformation piece. But I think fundamentally, like I said, it is everybody's tracking behavior, customer behavior to kind of figure out what do we do with it and how do we cater to what's happening out there. Right. So according to you, what has this entire landscape, this entire situation, taught us about brands as they navigate this really volatile landscape and what to say and how much to say it remains as a question right now. It's a very interesting question. Actually, it's a bit of a reckoning actually for brands if you ask me. So there's this very, very interesting quote by Wadden Buffett that says that it's when the tide goes down is when you realize who's been swimming naked, right? So it's kind of like that, right?  So I would say just to give you an example, right? I mean, I'm talking about a very pure personal thing and it was the first thing that kind of, it was literally like almost like a knee-jerk reaction. It was so fast out of the gate when LVMH said that four of our perfume brands, factories, they're going to convert them into manufacturing sanitizers straight off the bat. Those are early days, right? Right. And I was really stunned because LVMH, it's okay kind of it's a super luxury brand. At some level you're saying okay fine, is it really necessary or thinking is it, does the world need luxury and consumption exists in the world and we need to be thinking about the environment. That is my space about LVMH. I said it's okay fine, it's like, yeah. But the moment they did this, it was like, whoa, you know, I knew respect. I mean they said it's not like they did a campaign, nothing, and the speed of the decision making, right? So suddenly like LVMH said okay fine, solid, you're not a brand, you're a solid corporate citizen in that sense, right? I think that was a bit of a, it set up a race. It literally an arms race, a number of companies that immediately after that stepped up and say, Diageo and Coke and stuff like that. A lot of people donated money, but I think the key point is that people, a lot of brands and organizations stepped up and became corporate citizens, you know, good corporate citizens. And that was the kind of a, that was the first step, it was really cool. Right. And because this has been something especially for the millennials, we've been seeing this in the last many years that brands that do good or that speak the good language are what that find favor with the millennials, right? But now here was a time when it was a truly, it was not a marketing playbook at all out of the, it was an opportunity for you to step up and do good, right? So a lot of brands did that and it was pretty good because there was a website that came up saying DidTheHealth.com People are keeping track. You could go there and enter any celebrities name, any brands name, and it would surface whether they did help for COVID or not. So the world was keeping track and I'm sure that a lot of guys who did the genuine thing stepped out and without hesitation went out and did the stuff, they're going to be remembered by people personally, right? So I think there's a lot of work washing happening because of course this caused advertising and stepping up and doing good. It had become fad almost as a lot of brands were jumping onto the bandwagon but this one, this opportunity kind of exposed, this is what I meant by the tide went down and it suddenly showed who was going to make it, right? They were the brands that didn't step up and put money where the mouth was, right? And I'm going to contribute around a million dollars and stuff like that. So this suddenly exposed that stuff. So that's on one side, okay? That's as a response to an outstanding crisis. How can companies behave? Especially that's another trend that we're seeing because internationally also governments are trying to pull back or companies are stepping up and doing what governments used to do, right? Because it's not like a set in stone there is a lot of friction between factions but the thing is companies are doing what governments should be doing, right? And so this was a great thing but having said that coming down to the business of bread and butter and building brands and selling stuff, there again you could see the messaging how the messaging changed, right? So for instance, like, straight off the bat, the first reaction knee-jump was, we are with you, right?  And I think Facebook did some... BrogaFy did some very cool stuff for Facebook using that port. Very powerful stuff. So I think there's a... suddenly there was a speed of a lot of ads trying to say, hey, we are there for you, because nobody knew what was happening and they said, okay fine, I can't not be heard out there. Like, everybody stopped trying to jump. You know, I'm literally like a tower of Babel and I need to add my voice to it whether it is needed or not but there were even schools of how similar all those ads were but that was the first step, okay? And from there it kind of went to now what can we do for you, right? So a lot of brands said, okay fine, now all that is okay, now we need to get down to our business. How do we do something? How do we sell our product? How do we push a brand, right? Now there's also certain seriousness to it which, because everybody was saying that it's COVID time, it's COVID time, how can we, how can we? But then there's also the next phase is why so serious? There are a lot of brands that say, hey man, we can't stop laughing, right? Like your... advisors could brought back the what's up campaign or cruise light with the zoom background generator So a lot of fun stuff like you have to recognize you can't be morose all the time and people are in the serious stress, right? So like when I say that when, what can I do for you? The campaign that would fit would the jumpy campaign that I talked about for parachute advancement where we said we're going to help people with the stress. So there's a role for the product and there's a role, a specific thing that would do for our customers that would fit there, right? And from there to treating it lighter, saying that okay, it's okay, this is here for a long time and we don't need to be morose anymore and we can all have a laugh and we can kind of take it lightly. And then also, then the thing is now, I mean, suddenly if I don't know if you've seen the womb stories that came out recently, epic storytelling, right? Broken during a lockdown, it came out because there's been a certain kind of budgetary constraint, situational constraint, lockdown constraint that was defining how we behave until now, right?  But here suddenly one epic storytelling, right? Like nobody could tell that this was not done during a lockdown. So that's what's so bad. So I think what is happening is that now as like I said, that thing about when you started it, you're kind of trying to understand how what's what's up and how long it's going to last.  Now suddenly you're saying that, okay, this is going to be it and we need to come up with campaign, right? Like why like, yeah, even like we have our Dell, it's a very interesting exercise, our client, they have a huge campaign coming up for the second half of the year. And we've seen that like three months we've seen the messaging, do we, don't we? What's going to happen? Not going to happen. And finally it's getting right. And it is, it is, it is, it is a function of how unstable things are, how things are changing on a day to day basis, right? So I think it's kind of coming out. So I think overall one of the learnings has been that at the end of the day that that thing about what I said is that did the help.com it's kind of cool because you're now, you're really reconsidering brands that are really serious about this and what are the brands that are kind of playing, you know? Right. Yeah, there's a lot of opportunities for us to, what do you call, put out messaging, but I think we just need to evaluate because people are going to, are going to see through stuff right now, right? And now it is the time where you kind of get down to the brass tacks, all superfluous stuff is out. You are kind of say this is skeletal, this is kind of survival and I'm going to just kind of say this will go from a custom point of view and from our marketing point of view saying that, okay, fine, now how do we kind of just make sure keep our eyes on the ball and on the goal and we kind of achieve what we can, right? So it's kind of, change for the better, I would say in that sense. Amazing. So lastly, as businesses get affected at budgets are the first that kind of see a meeting. So what would be your message to agencies on, you know, how do you should remain relevant? That's an interesting, see, this is something that's been, the writing's been on the wall, frankly, last many years. Like I think two, three years back, I think the spends on digital world bigger than the spends on TV globally, right? That's one and we've been seeing how more and more, like I said, right? The money goes where the attention goes, right? And the attention has been shifting to digital for the last few years, right? In terms of the number of hours that the average person spends on digital, on the screen, it's just going up, it's just going up, it's passing year. So I think clients have been kind of, poor has been kind of slow to wake up, clients, agencies, everybody, right? Every brands, even a lot of agencies also have been kind of slow to acknowledge that have been given a bit of a wake up call in that sense. So it's a, it's a bit of a rude awakening. And I think the only thing that can, and that's not just a case at this time, that can save anybody is sad if you're a learning organization, if you're learning is a way of life, then I think that's the best way you can cope because there's no set ways. You just need to learn to respond fast, respond well, right? And I think the only thing that can save us is that we're ever learning in that sense, right? Just to tell you how quick, how, how drastic, how fast change happens.  Huge spectacularly huge campaign. And we were like said, yes, we cracked this platform. Let's have, spread the learnings to the entire team, to the agency. Let's go talk to clients. And next thing, you know, TikTok is off the air. You got what I'm saying? So that's how it is. That's how brutal and fast change is, right? Now that's fine. Okay, fine. We mastered it. Now that's out. That's not to say it's completely out, but for now it's off, right? So what next? So it is like that. You have to be, you literally have to be on the transformation treadmill in that sense, right? As the, as the thing saying that it is not a, that pace of change does increase. Only you could, once some change happened, then you could say, okay, for the next couple of decades it's going to stay this way. Color TV came and it took so many decades. Now like change happens like it's hard to believe that this 10 years back is when the, I mean the 12 years back, 2007 is when the mobile phone, the true mobile phone was launched, Appalaya phone, right? So the transformation treadmill is kind of, you have to be on top of it, right? And you have to, you have to keep running so fast, right? Like the, it's changing the very notion of brand building. Like, VML 1R globally, if you look at how Wendy's has been transformed as a brand from an old world brand in a world where Burger King and KFC were, were cool and doing all the noise. Wendy's came from, from behind and today that's, that's a brand that, that customers ask Wendy's to roast them. Right. On Twitter, right? On Twitter, and they asked, roast me and Wendy's reply saying that why don't you ask your 11 followers to roast you. Right. That is, that is where the brand is at and that is brand building and it's most sublime. If you look at how they, this year's Grand Prix campaign on Fortnite, how Wendy's killed Fortnite, it was insane. Nobody would have thought it. It won the Grand Prix precisely because of that because the jury said that you know, it shows us where advertising can go. Right. So the very notion of campaign is, or how a brand can be built has changed. Right. So that's one thing. Right. And that's, that's just campaigns. I'm also talking about how you deliver your product, how you deliver your experience, brand experience. That's one thing. Right. The second thing is that a lot of brands, a lot of the new brands are and we don't realize it. A lot of brands, let's say Uber and Airbnb, they've been, they've become brands first and then they talk about traditional communication. They became brands overnight as experiences. Like before you knew it, they were huge brands. They were delighting in the proper of people. Right. And they were just using the internet and moving very smart, getting lost out and under the radar. And they just built themselves into huge brands and only then they started saying, okay, now we need to communicate. We need to define the message. So the fact that experienced brands started happening. Right. So that's the other thing that we need to look at. How is it that these brands have built themselves from scratch. Marketing, sorry, agencies and built the brand. Right. And you're seeing the speed of those small brands, internet-built brands coming up. Right. Whether it's Dollar Shave Club or Billy Razor or here, for instance, right. Beardo and Superbottoms and there are tons of brands, right. And you go down and suddenly like, I find myself buying more and more of those kind of brands. I go looking for, let's say, Cherry Blossom or Wally's shoe polish and I find suddenly this, this homespun internet brand that is offering me a shoe shampoo and something else and something else. And next thing, I've ordered like a brand worth of stuff and it's entirely some brand that I've not heard of. Right. That's just come surfaced out there. So that is an experience that's happening. Right. So this is the age of internet brands in the sense like it or not. Of course, brands have not built overnight, but you get that thing really suddenly overnight you're experiencing new brands and you're kind of they're becoming what else can I think of? I think the other thing is to keep moving fast that this whole Facebook has this kind of I don't know, they still follow it and move fast and break things. But I think everybody's breaking things all the time. Governments are breaking things right now. TikTok was broken by the Indian government in that sense. People are breaking things. Internet is breaking things. People are trying to break the internet. So everybody's breaking things and they're breaking things. And people are breaking things. They are breaking things and taking things and breaking things. So all of these people in the internet or in the media is of it is just going faster and faster. So bottom line, I would say at the end of it is to kind of see how fast you can keep learning and learning is the only way up and out. Amazing. Thank you so much for your time. It was amazing chatting with you today. Thank you so much.  Thank you, you too.