I probably would You know they do ship a dock with it No, they don't Yes, they do. Oh, yeah, you do have to get the dock separately But you know I have to switch in the dock in my server room And then I set it up to with an HDMI capture card that feeds through this computer here that then transfers over there to the TV All right, we are live. We are missing Tyler because he just hi buddy. How you doing buddy? Just vacated and buddy's there Hello everybody in the in the chat if we could get some yeas or nays for audio that are pre-appreciative Appreciated something like that. I don't know it's kind of the dogs. Thank you hip-dad That was great, so this is me saying some words Josh you say some words there, please I am in fact still on Debbie and stable I have already filed a seven bug reports I'm currently working on the six point two car lot on Debbie and stable and we're going to pseudo make and solid Just like we're not supposed to that's excellent Steve some words, please Words words and more words I look when I'm saying words now and then Tyler sands more so it was we got some we got some yeas Tyler growls He's making fun of the dog in the background Okay, I think we're good to go everybody got audacity up and running I'm gonna be completely real. I do not Well cuz we had other conversations to be happy I'm not a city running I Too I too have audacity up and running I Will have it up and running here at just one second as Tyler says, I just got to compile it Yeah, give me just just one second. I'm pulling down from source All right Got to install some plug-ins We didn't solve plug-ins for we're just recording a single audio track All right, let me see I got it up and running. Let me make sure it's it's gonna pull from the right device cool Testing testing. Oh perfect. Nice audacity works spray out of the bag. Awesome. This never happens All right, you just jinxed Okay, I think we're ready to go the sound is fine. I can I can hear Tyler now. Yeah He wasn't there he was the dog it was buddy Yeah, I had to I had to run and go grab a drink You know gotta gotta be prepared. All right, I think we're gonna go ahead and get ready to go Everybody can be prepared for some entertainment as we try to do claps in four different positions around the globe That's great. All right, let's go ahead. I'm gonna go ahead and hit record in OBS I'm gonna record. It's official now In I'm being recorded guys. I hope yes. I'm recording everybody else recording now Yeah, I've been recording this whole time. Yeah, I really wish you'd stop doing that and wait for me to tell you You're welcome. I'm recording over here. All right, excellent Steve as usual you get the actually we usually we do Tyler when he's here But I think we should go ahead and let Steve try again, but do try to count from three to From the proper direction this time I didn't need to go start off a heater, but I'll clap first. Okay. We're ready You're ready guys good three two one It's fine It's fine We really need to find a different We need to get the movie clapper I've been told we can't not do a live stream of this because we are way too entertaining trying to clap together What are the charm what are the charm? What one day will like Unironically sync up for no reason and we won't believe anyone in chat. It's actually real We have only the only way that's ever gonna happen is if we're all using BSD and we're all delayed by Be careful Matt might maybe Matt might make me do that in August We're gonna take a little while off from the next challenge to this The thing is guys, I don't think that we have any chance ever of getting that synced up because the the latency is just gonna be too bad Yeah, especially here why we and the land of no internet. Yeah Um Okay, so I think we can go ahead and get started. I have I'm gonna check the scenes one last time So I have no cam which is the main screen. I have my solo Josh solo Steve solo Tyler solo and the patreon all ready to go. I have audio Apparently is perfectly fine according to the chat. I hope they can trust you guys to say that it's fine You guys all look very you're all looking very trustworthy, so I'm sure it's fine Anyway, I think we're gonna go all by the way Steve the reason why I'm not using droid cam is because it's terrible I think it's in what way. All right, so here's the here's the thing that is doing before we get started I just want to put this out there So you know it requires the v4. I'll loop back those specific thing for it, right? So when you when you watch it it tells you it doesn't have installed It does that on the first try which is fine So you go back into the scripts that it downloads from the site and run the install script for it And it should install right and it does But in order to get the HD version you have to go into the one of the files and edit the the yes Mentors right and then it always requires a reboot after that at least according to the documentation work to work so every but no according to the I'm just saying according to the documentation and According to my testing it requires a reboot or log out at least right anyways I'll I reboot like according to the documentation come back and it tells me to install v4. I'll loop back again Over and over again it did work three times it worked for the podcast that I recorded with you It worked for three videos or two videos that I that I recorded and put up on the channel And then after that every single time I open up the thing it tells me that v4. I'll loop back Must be a gen 2 thing because Possible on on arch. I I installed it that way first. I was like Okay, that's That's too much to do I went to the a you are I found a you are package built the package put it on my repository I might look and see if the V4 a little bag is in the gen 2 repositories. I'm not sure if it is but the the Thing about it is Loopback module is not in the gen 2 repository because you just build a v4l Yeah, but that said it might be some red-core bullshit If you if you install it from the a you are it's just one mod one file in your dot-config folder You just HD but the mobile version has it has to be paid for yeah I have I I paid for it the Yeah, I got it all the the plug-in that was running around like the OBS community like a few years back I don't know um the the thing is is that the Documentation on the door cam website tells you to download all their stuff into slash temp So I thought that that maybe that was the problem right because you know ever a reboot temp goes away So I downloaded it just to downloads where I know that the file is actually going to live forever until I delete it and Built everything from there, and it still does the exact same thing. So it's I don't know that's anyways. That's the reason why Okay, understandable. It's the if it's giving you a headache Maybe maybe in August when I'm not on Red-core anymore, but on arch. It's quite simple. I just modified the file enabled 1920 by 1080 and that's it reboot and it's there forever I'll look and see what's in the gen 2 repositories later on see if there's anything there that can can help maybe All right anyways Tangent completed. Let's go ahead and get started Me then Tyler then Josh and Steve sorry Josh or Steve you always go last But I know if your clap doesn't show up exactly where you are Sometimes you clap doesn't show up man. You got really good last week. It was actually last time was actually Josh who had the Noise cancellation on and I couldn't we couldn't hear his clap. Remember it did show up in in audacity didn't show up on The video which is weird. So I think it's gonna rotate At points where we can't just hear the clap. So that'll be interesting anyways All right. Yeah. Hey everybody. Welcome to the throat man. I was I just did the other podcast yesterday totally Said to three cast yeah, that was that's my other podcast. It's all right. I still gotta edit that Anyways, hey, everybody. Welcome to Linux cast. I'm your host Matt And I'm Tyler and I'm Josh and I'm Steve. Oh, all right. I Would took a week off and I completely forgot how to do podcast. It's fantastic. All right Anyways, this is the Linux cast we talk about Linux see things and that's what we plan on doing today We have some news. We have some Thingies of the week that will come up later, which are pretty cool So make sure you stick around for that if you want to get in contact with us You can do so email at the Linux cast or that is the best place to get in contact with us If you want to find more about the contact information, we'll do some more of that later. So Yeah, a new intro that I thought up just there right off the top of my head. I'm brilliant at improvising. Can't you tell anyways? So before we jump into the news We always go around the table and ask briefly what we've done in the world of floss this week So Steve, why don't you take us off? I'm sure there's something very interesting that you've been doing all week I'm sure has nothing to do with the steam deck. I Finally Have a new friend my And and we're gonna get a zero Linux image made just for the deck later. It's gonna be called Zero deck for Josh. Well No, no, no Josh is onto something here because I Don't know if you guys heard Chimera OS 39 just got released and they're using the steam deck UI just like hollow ISO I went and I went to the AUR because me being me and an AUR nerd. I Found their packages on there. We can build them. We can go we can compile them and we can include them on our distro but I was like Why do I want to go and open up another can of worms? so To to be in between I Enable zero Linux default rice on the desktop mode on the steam deck because I have to It's it's me in the end. I like to thinker, but Tyler brought up something earlier It well next update what might undo all the love I have given this thing I will have to redo reapply love. It's like Oh, it's an opportunity to give to give some love. Okay. I would do it over and over and over again Josh has the clikkiest keyboard and mouse in the history of the world There's the blue switches and then there's Josh switches I Just like in the middle of Like somebody like smacking the entire keyboard Sorry, and here you go zero Linux on style on the steam deck so Yeah, I'm enjoying it and sorry. I need to apologize to everyone publicly. Sorry for being a Total Apologist well, I was a total hypocrite first for judging the steam deck for not being able to do things that it does marvelously It has replaced my My store computer and I do everything on this thing except building packages because Repositories are out of date, but other than that it's doing everything marvelously. It does YouTube great No screen tearing no nothing. I don't know what voodoo magic. They did to to make everything work and As we were discussing with Tyler. I don't judge The deck for being too old on packages. They do that for a reason as Tyler said earlier They do it for a reason. They want to keep the thing stable So don't expect to ever be as up to date as actual arch But I will say in your own defense though It is insane what you can do with the deck and how it performs like you you don't expect it to perform like it does Like it you don't It's it's it's a little tiny thing and to negate what What what Matt said before that it's heavier than he expected. Well, it's like to me It's the opposite. I don't know what's with me and the opposite of Matt, but it's lighter than I expected Me too Especially with how big it is because like when you set it next to a switch You're like all that that thing's beefy as hell and it doesn't feel like I don't have a switch to compare it to So first of all there there's that but when I first picked it up it just felt heavier than it I expected and it's It's fine. Okay. Yeah, it's also a big device The thing that I expected to happen if I got the step the deck happened exactly as I expected it to It did not change my gaming habits whatsoever Do what do I game more than I did before? Kind of every once in a while remember I have a steam deck and go play a game But well, I don't I'm gonna be honest. I don't I don't play as As many as much I don't game on it as much as people would expect me to I Enjoy the desktop mode much I But for the funny thing is I have yet to actually go into the desktop mode Well, I I replaced I replaced the bash with ZSH so and this is my tool my tool the zero Linux tool running on the deck So a lot of the parts of the features that it has worked on the steam deck right off the back This is another thing so I'm very in in many ways I'm very close to creating a zero deck version version of zero Linux Because there's nothing to do You could just take it write a script that people could download they would apply all your settings to the limits It's there so that makes you put a curl pipe in the bash command on your on the definitely definitely do that Definitely, and make sure that it executes as route But I attempted building a compiling a kernel on this it only took nine hours, but Yeah, don't don't don't be don't be like you could have waited But I had a mouthful of coke and I'm not spinning all over my keyboard All right, let's stop talking about this the deck.  I'm going to be talking about red core Linux for me Don't ask challenge so first of all kudos to the developer who's like really responsive now. He's in my discord He's helped people who are following this challenge with me to get their setup back and running when the kernel point or whatever so kudos to that and For me personally it's actually running fairly well knock on some wood I Am on the unstable branch of the or the I'm actually actually moved to the branch of red core That actually follows Gen2 testing now, so I'm getting more updates, which is nice Katie is still just not working for me Like anyway, it came back the other day after five twenty seven dot one came out for like half an hour And I walked away from the computer as I you know do sometimes and came back and Kay when was completely gone And I've been told that it's not Kay when that's causing that problem, so I don't know if that's true I did file a bug report So we'll see if if that you know works, but we'll Katie's just it hates me. It. Hey absolutely hates me. Anyways, I'm using q-tile now right now So I'm enjoying q-tile and I've taken a challenge from one of my patrons to Use x-mone ad for a while.  I have serious add I changed rice is every single day just because I want something to look it's different um And uh, yeah x-mone ads coming up next and I haven't had the courage. I'm sorry I do have I do have to interject so I do have a pretty important question Do you already have an x-mone ad config set up? I do Okay, yeah, I just don't have it on this computer and I don't have an x-mone um I try so I figured I'd get halfway through the pain of installing x-mone ad on on uh gen 2 basically by installing pandoc, which is also written in haskell so Pandoc pulls down the basically the entire haskell library. So I figured well, you know, if I have that You know x-mone ad won't take nearly as long to compile Uh, but pandoc failed halfway through and I have no idea why so Uh, I don't have a lot of hope for x-mone ad actually Maybe I'm I haven't looked so it's possible that there's an x-mone ad binary out there um But I like said, I haven't looked so it's it's possible But if there even if it is possible, is there an x-mone ad can trip binary? Which is probably not gonna happen, but even even if it does have a binary there's going to be Actually does exist Well, I know I know it exists. I just don't know I don't know I haven't like I haven't tried I haven't had the You know Tested testicular four to two to actually download x-mone ad and get started on because I'm I'm a hundred percent positive that the Configuration that I have which is over a year old at this point probably doesn't work given the fact that they you know Probably do updates. So um, yeah, that's gonna be yes. I am use GT use GT's config No I tried that once that man puts a lot of stuff in his configuration file that you don't need. Um So I'll be starting it is a good place to start though. Like I mean if you know nothing Hey, man, if we do the challenge again, I'm going to tell you use DTOS On art sure as long as it's not on gentoo, I'm okay I I'm going to do I'm going to do a six months challenge once known 44 get released Oh, I'm gonna stick I'm gonna stick to known for six months That's next month as a katie diehard. I'm interested to see how that goes Um, yeah, anyway, it's tyler. What have you been doing in the world of floss this week? Well, uh, I'm gonna be pretty quick because I haven't done all too much I've been like I've I've had a lot of work stuff going on. So I've been Well, I mean I got back from a trip to hawaii. So like and then immediately once I got back I had I had so much work stuff to get done But I haven't been messing around with linux too too much Like I mean obviously been using it to do work But haven't messed around and tried a whole bunch of new stuff The only thing I will say is hyperland still It's still really enjoyable to use. Um, I I I've lost a lot of the like honeymoon phase with hyperland. I'm not I'm not as gung-ho about telling people to use it just just because I'm having a really good time with it But I know how much it's changing and how much Wayland's constantly changing. So Um, I don't know like it's one of those things where I'm really enjoying my time But I have a hard time recommending it to other people because most likely you're probably not going to have an easy time or Something might break or something might not work, right? but I can I can I can come sorry to interject but I can confirm that the the A box three has been updating hyperland like Clockwork like since I host the packages on my repos And it's the git packages not the regular packages. So Well, that's what he recommends to use by the way if anyone's watching Yeah, so I went with his recommendation and he's going to be my guest on the patreon show next month so but the uh, uh, The fact is I have to get I don't have to get pull the latest dkg build because it's a Git package. I just build it will automatically grab the latest every sometimes twice a day there are updates to Yeah Wayland to uh, I mean to a hyperland. Yeah. Yeah. So that guy is working around the clock on It's a great thing to see No, I mean it it really is a it's a really nice window a window manager or compositor like or whatever It it's it's really nice. Um, so yeah, I've been enjoying that And pretty much the only other thing that I definitely wanted to make sure to say was Thank you so much, Matt for adding Testicular fortitude to my lexicon. I I genuinely had never thought of those two words going together but I'm going to use that in a lot of ways in the future I'm welcome. You're welcome. I'm 100% sure I got that from a book someplace. I don't remember which one, but yeah Definitely, it's it's a good thing. All right, so josh round us out. What would you do this week? I've got some spicy stories starting from uh, basically since the last time you guys saw me on the on this channel Because the first thing I did was uh, I ran butterfs convert on my file system So that way I could get off this crappy file system as ext4 and get on the world's greatest file system Uh, which, you know It actually worked surprisingly. Do you think that will work on redcore? Uh, it it might actually uh, you've got a newer version of butterfs prongs than I do I desperately want butterfs because I miss snapshots so bad Well, you can try it Where's that happens? Don't worry, man. I've got the usb key for you right here All you gotta do is pop in some vento. You got it, man All right, but anyways, uh, so uh, I ran the butterfs File system conversion and uh, I've I've got the arc gpu at the ready here for me. I'll explain later in in the show and uh Let's see. Uh, I've submitted seven bug reports three of which go directly against kde One of them being stdm because stdm for some reason does not like multi gpu systems. Who knew? The stdm is so finicky It really is It is surprisingly finicky Surprisingly finicky and if you're using an integrated integrated graphics on a on an intel gpu and you have an and uh, you have an amd gpu And uh, you try to install like the packages on debian to you know enable the quick sync encoder on the intel gpu It stdm will attempt to draw the entire User environment with the integrated gpu which my motherboard actually displays the video output of So, uh, when I can get not only that not only that Sdm is finicky with nvidia cards as well hybrid and systems with nvidia intel Uh, when you install light dm, everything is fine and dandy, but stdm just doesn't like hybrid grime Just use startx guys Just I love it. That's not how it works That's not how it works. I'm using bone stock debian is the only thing that I set up was like a basic arc theme Except that I did convert it to butterfs, but whatever. But anyways, uh after after I got that the bug port submitted and accomplished, uh, I Updated a couple backup scripts that way my backups actually work reliably now. Yay I actually have an offsite backup and then I had I got uh Another youtuber really mad at me again Happens about every six months. Yep. This is this is not news to me. You upset someone So what I've got here is I've got my lighter fluid here just in case Just in case Okay, all right All right, so that is uh the first round of the the podcast It's time for us to move on to the news. So as I don't really know who we we've been kind of rotating who goes first So why don't we say josh you go first? Why not? Oh, okay? Well, then I'll get right into it the reason why I have this gpu is because linux 6.2 came out Which means that our intel arc gpu drivers are actually in the mainline kernel now And I don't have to pull from some weirdo bunto ppa Okay, great way of making the news about you. I'm just You're welcome I have my I fix a kid at the ready as well as the backup screwdriver. I'm ready for this I I just want to even have the curl downloaded and I'm going to be compiling it right after this podcast I want to be the first to Be the person to say this that there's no way that that gpu actually works well on linux Just gonna put that out there. It doesn't even work well on windows So I don't know how you're expecting to work well on on linux. So we'll find out All right, so what's the actual news? Could you is that like all there is in 6.2 to be excited about or? Oh, there's quite a bit. Let's see here some normal file system improvements. Uh, let's see here. There's Isn't this the one that includes all the stuff for Apple silicon shit Yes, the we do have the asahi patches as well Uh, it's it doesn't have like the most up-to-date asahi patches It just has some it just has like uh, like uh, you don't get the uh GPU driver or anything, but you at least have Enough enough of a kernel there to actually be able to boot a system on an m1 mac Also, can I ask a good question? Why is the article that you sent us from christmas? That's a good question um One of the paragraphs starts off even if it is christmas day. I was like wait a minute. I don't think that it's actually christmas day Did I miss something again? Let me find a new link here guys I read the article I didn't catch that Okay, okay. I have I have grabbed an updated article for you. I I posted in the chat Let me let me let me push commit to the notes here for you and get it fixed Okay I panicked all right Like all this time the the real problem is josh has been living in the past He's he he's in debbie and that's the reason why he's so far behind You've got that right I just updated the show notes That's so fun. Okay But anyways, uh, there there's a new user space api for io memory management units There's some there's a couple security improvements as well as introducing a landlock security mode that allows Uh file truncation operations and implements faster mitigations for uh stuff like a replete inspector and such And uh, honestly like normal whenever I link a news article with some kind of an update There's way too many updates for us to cover on on just one episode And it's the kernel ones are always like that they always have these little things like you have to cover um Here's my thing is that I have stopped caring about links kernel updates because my hardware never changes Um like I have the same old hardware that I've had for ages and none of this stuff ever applies to me The only reason a kernel update would actually put Make me actually care would be as if it broke my system I'm sorry. I have two of these. Do you want me to send one to you? No, no thanks I've heard so many horror stories. I've got the box for it right here I I have so many I've heard so many horror stories about that Stuff on windows. So I'm I'm not expecting you to do well on links. All right. Okay. Um, I I know for for your sake I hope it goes really really well. Um, and you don't throw away your six months challenge and move to gen two or arch or something Oh, no, we're gonna be sticking to devian That's why we're compiling a kernel Oh man, I hope it fails. So you have to top All right, uh, let's go ahead and go to steve steve your first one My first one is also a uh, a kernel related topic It's the kernel 6.3 because it adds something that is Related to moi me It's uh, Linux 6.3 bringing proper support for the 8 bit dough pro 2 wired controller, which I do have uh so for steam os The 8 bit 2 pro wired controller has been Advertising steam os and raspberry pi os support to which It has worked when running the generic hd driver However, this controller does not support multiple Controller modes and when switching to the x input mode there were uh, it was problematic for a lot of users So they have ended up using uh, usb another usb gaming controller now. It's going to be integrated in linux 6 point the Linux 6.3 kernel So that's good news for me because I own that controller. I own the 8 bit Joe pro 2 and the wireless version Uh, the wired and wireless versions. So I and I play a lot of retro gaming I'm now with the steam deck. I am questioning. Where do I need it?  I would not put it past them at all. They should I mean nintendo will dmca twitch streamer.  They sued them to stop that Like it hurt nobody they made no money was offered whatsoever if anything cost them money Well, that thing has been out for three years now. So, uh, if they wanted to sue them, they would have sued them Yeah, I they'll get around to it eventually But anyway, that's that's good news for me, but now with the steam deck, I shouldn't worry about it what Matt what I have a problem what? I see that top bar What of it a fun day over right corner where it says 100 updates Yeah, the the cutar the sir the cutar modules your shit the cutar modules broken Um, I don't know where it's actually finding on it. I only had three yesterday and it did three and Now I now you do emerge, you know world or whatever and you get nothing Um, all right. All right. All right. Well, I just I just figured I'd share my screen for the mandatory neofetch Okay, the mandatory neofetch we can continue. It's part of the challenge There it is So that's uh that the news article that update will impact me So, yeah, I love that thing. It's so good and it's a rechargeable battery and everything and You have so many little Program tweaks and you can program the whole thing via software Which if you run it via wine using wine It works you can I can update this this thing is firmware using a windows app firmware updating application It's a direct or x-input It's amazing. I uh, I used it on the steam deck It works in x input and Well, okay, not amazing not as a They have a point in the article whereas When they say that in x input it jumps around a lot Because i'm using the basic driver not the actual driver But now with the actual driver with 6.3 if they update the steam deck next year to 6.3 6.3 I'll be able to use that thing with no issues because Dude just the buttons on these things are amazing. They're better than the steam deck They're way better than How much is that controller? I bought it for 30 bucks Okay Three years ago this it says in the article that is 35 dollars now Not too expensive. All right, tyler your first link of the day Now i'm nervous because First mandatory neofetch is on the screen. It's there All right, um Now i'm nervous because uh, apparently i'm missing stuff in each article I didn't even see the price like whatever. I'll just go into mine. Hopefully I didn't miss critical information reading is hard Yes, it is. So my first article is uh, google uh, google chrome's new memory saving mode is now available for linux uh, yes this is Somewhat big news for especially people with like lower like, you know, you've just got lower ram It especially if you're using something like a netbook. This is a this is a really nice feature It's finally been added to the linux release of chrome And so you'll be able to for it. What it essentially does is it just frees up memories Freeze up the memory taken from tabs that are not actually being used but just running in the background And and reallocates it. Hopefully smoothing out the experience for the actual tab that you're in so It it's really not To be honest, I feel like most people aren't going to need or benefit from this especially on desktop systems You most likely have enough ram to manage your browser but As we all know browsers are freaking memory hogs. So Any like to me any attempt to get that under control is good So, uh, yeah, this is a nice update for all of us I can confirm I can confirm what the article says because they implemented it already in a 5.7 update of vivaldi And with me opening so many tabs like right now I got 36 tabs open I noticed that it Usually when I have 36 tabs open, I notice a little bit of sluggishness when dragging the window around Uh, one not that no longer happened So And I don't use tab stacks and Whatever mat uses I have 36 tabs open in one of my groups Also, I just close my tabs 13 14 40. I don't use groups Y'all are aliens compared to me This is how I made my memory of my web browser. I close it lame Y'all y'all are aliens to me Like I genuinely like the statement usually when I have 36 tabs open like so to me that was so alien Okay, so I have a couple things to say first of all, vivaldi already had a feature like this It's not exactly the same, but they already had a hibernation feature Uh edge has also had a hibernation feature for ever since it came out So now it works better but it now works better The other thing that I want I want to say is that I hope this is one of those things that firefox will actually copy And then I'm looking forward to instead of like the stupid extensions menu that every other browser has the firefox decided they had to have Um, and they you know pisses me off But whatever it's okay, man. Calm down. Yeah, and and and also also the fact that plasma 527 became twice more snappy than it ever was Uh, and with me not having a lot of issues except that common issue that I keep talking about minus that issue Everything has become I felt I feel like I'm running a window manager now When running here plasma this is so so Nappy Yeah, it was that Tyler just don't use that tiling thing that they but that's kind of the that's kind of the impressive Thing is it seems like especially because like These kinds of updates to programs that are addressing Memory hogging or just just system hogging in general It's getting more and more common, which is like it's actually really nice because for for a long time It it it's been feeling like these major programs Like that most people use and they're not they're not small programs at all Are constantly adding more and more features and Never given a shit about optimizing So it's nice to hear stuff like this I I Don't to me.  So It but it it it is nice to see this stuff being implemented because there's so many browsers that pull From chrome and add stuff on top of base chrome. So it for a lot of the people using stuff that's Downstream from chrome. I'm sure this is a And even more impactful update than pretty much anything else crumbs added in the past year or two so Good to hear. Uh, I'm glad that I'm glad that they're finally addressing the fact that memory is an issue with chrome That's that's nice Hopefully they continue and it only gets better Yeah, at least we've been out of my hope All that being said use firefox All right, I use firefox esr.  It's like 102 or something like that. It was a while ago 102.8 I love that the esr still exists and that they they keep that around because a lot of times when fire when they introduce new features for Stupid reasons they break stuff and going back to the esr is like the only way to actually release firefox I know people. I know people still using firefox Before they started jumping 10 releases ahead. I think you The latest one he he's using is 14 14 42 or something what I'll be I'll be just all of his banking in that Saying It's just for amazon and stuff. I'm gonna put my credit card information right in there Oh No, because because there are some websites that on modern versions of firefox they act weird So he decided to keep a portable version of 14 dot whatever Or was it 26 point something? It was I think 26 26 dot something Uh and 14 26 brother that's so old Okay, yeah, because they did legit they jumped from 80 To 100 when chrome went to 100. So if he's using 14 or even 26 that was from like 10 years ago Yeah, because some extensions that he relies on like One of them is the the thing for the colorizing the tabs in different colors like you highlight on a in a book That extension broke after 26 So he wants to keep using it. So he's still using it on a But it's There's also four different people that are to have his name now and using all of his information I mean if it's working for these getting by Yeah, and it's that's a word That's not his main browser. It's just a portable version for a certain purpose His main browser is Well, something that none of you have heard of Okay, it's called yellow browser. Oh, I've heard of that one I had to be on iphone it used to be on iphone, but now it's available for windows like Dolphin browser back in the day It still exists All right, moving on to the next one. This is mine before we jump into the contact information So ubuntu has announced the availability of Of real-time ubuntu now when I first saw this I was like real-time ubuntu. Are they going rolling release like No, that's not what it is. Basically what they're doing is they're implementing a new kernel based on well It's a real-time kernel based on 5.15 lts. That is for certain aspects of the aerospace automotive defense and iot industries Where according to omg ubuntu that they rely on more agile low latency computing whatever that's supposed to mean Maybe josh can explain this to me because I don't really understand what the hell that means So it's all about the scheduler set for for the kernel like and honestly I'm just only going to like barely scratch the surface But a lot of times when you people when people are talking about like a real-time linux kernel It's it's actually retaining more towards uh audio rather than the airline industries But basically the way the the kernel why am I making noises here? you Silence yourself. You're just supposed to display neofetch. But anyways, uh So I didn't even notice he has his neofetch behind him. I like to see I saw it You're welcome. I I have a susa branded a first aid kit too next time. I'm gonna put neofetch on behind on the computer behind me I'm just Of course, they're welcome. It won't be red core. So but anyways anyways, uh So how the linux kernel works is that it places everything into an ordered list for of processes that that that it would feed your processor When what what the real-time patch that does is it basically sets a priority? Uh of where it's just like hey, I I see that you're looking you're I see that you you have a high demand of band of a network bandwidth Let's prioritize that over, you know, like maybe your browser tab You know because maybe that's a little bit more important. That's basically that's basically what it does and in like the most basic Stupid person example possible And uh, basically what it does is it cuts down on latency between machines or between services that are run locally on the computer and uh Which is something you can actually test yourself Matt with, you know, that clapping that we do every now and then you might be able to uh Look at the raw recording and if you actually Pay close enough attention.  Um There'll be the omg of buntu article did crap at explaining that by the way That's the reason why I was confused because all all it said was that exact thing that where where access to an agile low latency competing Offered is a deterministic real-time kernel is excuse the word play a real-time requirement. Thank you for thank you, joey for being very very informative, um I know you're not writing to a technical audience, but a few extra details there might actually be You know good. Can we get some elaboration, please? And then just and then the only primary source Quotation that he uses the real-time of buntu kernel delivers industrial grade performance and resilience and for software defined manufacturing monitor and operational tech That's that's use of attack mumbo jumbo. Thank you. Thank you mark for that high quality marketing speech, which says absolutely nothing okay All right, so that is the first half of the show time to move on to the contact information as usual If you want to get contact with us you can do so in any number of ways I mean there are so many different ways you can contact with us The best way probably is to go to the linuxcast.org Whereas the website you'll find the latest and greatest episodes all linked they're all the way back to season one if you want to go Splunking back into the the to the archives. They're all linked there except for the first three which are mysteriously missing To to be returned and come out of the disney vault eventually. I'm sure Um Anyways, it would be nice to see it would be nice to see you with our glasses. Um, yeah, that was There was no video back then so you don't have to worry about it. We didn't have video back in 2017. What are you talking about me? Come on I had video back in 2017. Oh, I'm sure I'm sure you did but The rest of us did not bother to record the video because there wasn't even a youtube channel in 2017 anyways Moving on, uh, you can subscribe to the linuxcast on youtube at youtube.com slash linuxcast You can find tyler who's on youtube doesn't make youtube videos very often because he has real jobs now lame I'm winning the content game youtube First of all, no, you are not. Um No, I mean you're beating me man, but I'm definitely beating zany Not a high bar youtube.com slash the linuxcast matt your asshole Uh, I I even said the wrong link there youtube.com slash zanyo g's where you'll find tyler josh Has you can find all of his contact information at tenley j.com slash stalker Steve has multiple things that we usually talk about but the best one to find him on youtube is youtube youtube.com slash at Zero linux zero with an x not a z those letters are not the same Uh, you can find all of this stuff if you don't want to you know, type it in from memory at the linuxcast.org Slash contact now one thing that I will say is if you go to previous episodes of the show Like prior to a couple weeks ago and thank you j dog for pointing this out I had the absolute wrong email address linked there for the entirety of the show It says email at the linuxcast.com which does not exist So I always wondered hey, why do I why we don't give very many emails? Maybe that's the reason why Uh, it is fixed now Or it probably actually is not fixed because I've probably forgot to fix it in the copy paste thing So it's probably not fixed in this one either which is utter hilarity. I'll fix that later. Um It's it's just one of those mistakes where you get pointed out like yeah, I think like we've been doing this for five years and They're all wrong It's great. Anyways, that's the contact information time to move back on to the rest of the news Steve your second link My second link is uh, kde multi monitor support continues Be improved and as a multi monitor owner. I can confirm The the article does not go into details on how they're fixing it It's just that they released an uh with five twenty seven They released the support a better support for multi monitors with twenty seven dot five twenty seven dot one It got updated yet again to add especially for The craziness that happens Uh, especially with kate and k-right sometimes not remembering their places They updated that so it's all good news and I am loving The fact that my applications now remember the monitors. They were open on on x or The brief amount of time that I used plasma five dot twenty seven. They did not work for me. I'm just putting this out So unsurprisingly, well, they did update it again like two days ago. Well, that was this was with five dot twenty seven dot one So for me, it's working now. So my my my console always opens on the right I'm pretty sure there's I'm pretty sure nicole hates my guts or something like that and there's there's like some secret code and kde they just The locates my ip address or something like that or my mac address and just like on this computer if he's using plasma Fuck that guy I've actually been sending emails back and forth with nickel lately I'll go into too much contact because you know, think things are being said in those emails should not be said public Well Well, he made a video recently His latest video was about rising He went to unix born and started checking right kde rises and he made a video about it like and in the video He was acting surprised every time he talked about a rise because there was a common denominator None of them were using the kde panel His kde panel everything was using latte doc I think that's a I said to myself. That's a kind of a hint For him to stop working on the kde panel and start joining forces with the with latte If he had looked at my rice, he would have found that I used floating docks. Um But okay, if you want to look at my rice, he'd realize I'm using the stock doc The only thing I do is just change the colors Lane, I don't use the stock box. So, uh, I'm a latte It's okay Yeah It's a good thing to see multimodern support getting better and better and that comes at the heels of x 11 or x.org releasing updates for mesa for better support for mesa and some amd drivers And you don't see up x 11 in the update news very often So it's good to see somebody's doing a little bit of work still on that just a couple stability fixes That's really it. They're not really adding any new features. Well, it's in it's in maintenance mode. So it's not surprising that there's Yeah, well, um, but I'm now Like I'm I changed my tone when it comes to gaming on linux. I'm changing my tone on weyland, but There are some things still in weyland that are deal breakers. So I want to try the qtel version of weyland because I haven't installed but I am I refuse to install pipe wear Because I know the minute I install pipe wear to replace pulse audio or to sit alongside it or however the hell it works Audio will no longer work Well, I haven't had any issues with audio with it with the exception If if pipe wear was already here. I I'd use it. I use pipe wear on fedora perfectly fine.  That means that uh, you have to buy me a steak dinner, right? Uh, I'll just I'll just send you an amazon gift card. You can actually get steaks on amazon. I'm sure right I will go up to you because you're only like a two and a half hour drive from me and you will get me steak I don't know if you know so much of your door. It's like, uh, hello. We've got a date steak dinner tonight. Let's Let's go.  Okay Also, it's august 11th by the way, I'm just putting that out. Oh, that's how it was the 14th. All right I started on the 9th. Uh, any according to that thing that, um The the new fetch. I don't know sometime in august. Anyways, uh, josh, why don't you take us into the the next news item Uh, yeah, uh linode is finally seeing is finally seeing the end point of the corporate merger where akamai is integrating linode into the akamai cloud connected services or the akamai connected cloud Uh, they're going to it looks like that they're planning to rebrand it rebranding it to the akamai cloud computing services Yeah, because that's that's a fantastic name. Yeah, uh, they've got an enterprise And uh, if you go to linode.com, you're just going to see akamai branding just slowly begin to creep up creep up in there More general. Uh, that said, I I don't think that it's ultimately a bad thing for for linode Uh, because you know akamai is not cloudflare or amazon or google compute services or anything like this So I'm I'm sort of fine with it Here's here's why I don't like this move As someone with dyslexia Linode's easier to spell I'm just pointing that out there and linode's I can imagine it is it is a known brand Maybe it's just because I've you know, I got used to typing linode but Don't know.  So how am I how am I supposed to type it? Um, so I don't like that. They're just replacing the brain plus they came up with a What is it with people not knowing how to name stuff like one word one name is better than five names Okay, that that should be rule number one of naming something if you can if you have a name. That's just one name It's automatically better than five names no matter what those names are that has to be a rule of naming things On that said they haven't actually came out outright and announced that they are rebranding linode I think they're still going to be maintaining the linode brand for the foreseeable future But I don't know how much longer that's going to stick around only places probably going to stick around is in the url And eventually as soon as they get their dns stuff been running good luck with that They're probably they're probably forward all of the databases and stuff to To an akamai url Could be possible. I don't I don't we knew it was coming but it just it feels like a They're just Ruining it. I mean it's still going to be the same stuff, but I don't know it doesn't feel great to me It won't be too long before we all decide we're going to jump ship off of linode and go to vulture Well, I already have like I'm Just going to level with everyone here as soon as I as soon as I went to linode like I've got a few I've got a I had a few servers or whatever Vps is whatever with With linode and as soon as I went to their website and saw this stuff like akamai Like it was plastered all over the freaking website. It was everywhere And I hadn't heard anything about this or anything. I don't know anything in this company. I spent five minutes looking into them Don't don't really know anything and I don't trust I like I just don't trust them to not make massive sweeping changes and may not be able to keep up with it or You know miss something important. So I've already left linode. I had heard of them before because they run the spam detection service for wordpress Yeah, they run the spam detection service for wordpress and if you've paid attention to another youtube content creator Uh, who you may or may not know by the name of luke smith. That's where he hosts his vps is from That's actually how I heard of them Well, I I use linode and I have not seen anything on Yeah, well, you're using european linode. It's different from the us linode Oh, well, I'm yeah, I'm using european because it's faster for me It's all for everybody else but faster for me and Dude next cloud has been a lifesaver now. I uh, oh by the way, matt I stopped using bit warden now I'm using uh next cloud passwords and I just imported my My bit warden database directly to it and it runs perfect too many eggs in one basket for me Uh, I want things separated out. It's the unix philosophy. I want them to do one thing and do one thing Well, I want my password manager to be a password manager. I don't want office I got like next cloud's great for a cloud storage. I don't use I know I don't use any any of that I uninstalled everything everything I understand I'm just saying it Does too much stuff for me. I I don't like I said, I'll I'll use it for Storing stuff. I don't want it to do anything else for me Um, and I know since we're talking about linode. Can we talk about angry linus? Yeah Let's go fine. Let's go ahead and move on to the the who whose link was this it was this Tyler's Tyler's. Okay, Tyler. Why don't you tell us what this is about? So, um Well, as we all probably know linus can you know lose his shit sometimes so Here here we have uh someone apparently sent a A merge request or excuse me a pull request and It's not a pull request. That's a merge request. Yeah, excuse me.  Sorry. Sorry. I read I read a pull request I wouldn't correct myself So anyway, the the comment for it Is actually kind of hilarious merge branch Four linus slash hardening into four next hardening Um Super descriptive. Yeah, I don't know if if the guy who wrote this just genuinely did not even think to reread what he wrote but I have never heard a commit that's I mean other than just random jibberish character spit out. That's as useless as this one so it's nothing at all and Of course linus had a response and so here's his response um And that one liner short log part is literally the whole commit message Which like let's be honest though. It's my first reaction would read you get I've said this before and apparently I need to say it again If you cannot be bothered to explain why a merge request exists then that merge is is buggy garbage by definition This really should be a rule that every single developer should take too hard I'm not putting random words together in a random order I repeat if you cannot explain a merge then in all caps just don't do it It's really that simple. There is absolutely again all caps Never an excuse for merges without explaining why those merges exist It sounds like very polite in this whole thing. I mean, there's not even a single f-bomb. It's not linus from the past That's for sure. He's definitely cleaned up after himself Well, and well, I guess we should but you know, this is just a warning well, well, he so there is there is Another part of it where he's saying in this case I really think that this merge should not have existed at all and the lack of explanation is because Is because there again all caps is no explanation for it But if there was a reason for it then just state it dammit And make the merge commit look sensible because right now it looks entirely pointless And I literally detest pointless merges. They only make the history look worse and harder to read And you guys are right. This is I mean, he did throw in the dammit there, but like it is Much nicer than some of the other responses I've read from him I think it was last year. He had that rant against github, right? Where yeah, he ranted for a thousand words about how terrible github and why push requests And pull and merge request and stuff should never happen on github itself and stuff That wasn't was much more entertaining than this one because he went on for ages about a horrible github I remember that Linus wrote the versioning control system called get he was the original author behind somebody else maintains it now But when he wrote get he literally wrote down the tenets of how you use this tool and how it should be used to manage a project So as a result, he is very opinionated in uh, you know, how you work with his crap You know, well as you should be I mean, yeah There is also a good point to be made here that anyone who's getting offended or but hurt by this You really do got it like Really got to understand If the point that he's making here is 110 valid there is Absolutely no reason that that this kind of stuff should be happening in the kernel or Really anything that Linus is working like if he's hands on with it if he's working on it There shouldn't be this kind of stuff in there.  So I don't want to blame him for ever saying this and he was honestly He definitely should have Um, I got someone knock on the door. I'll be right back. Excellent. He definitely should not have been this polite about it. So um Yeah Anyways, yeah, well He was that's Linus that's Linus at the end. So you should expect such things such reactions from him Well, but and also he has so much to deal with I don't I don't think anyone can hold it against him He's a machine. He's a machine.  I'm pretty sure happens not frequently but Occasionally enough to where it would piss off anybody who's been working for years on this kind of stuff like just Please explain like and really in all honesty I I think I think expecting someone to explain What they want you like what they're trying to give you is not like that's not too much to ask. It's really not Well, it's really just like an issue stemming down from get of where basically the get of workflow is that there's a separate discussion panel and you're and you're mentioning this in like the actual Uh Issue tags as well And when you actually publish the merge request through github it gets very vague And you don't want to repeat the entire conversation in that in that merge request when you decide that you're going to Upstream your your merge request that you originated on github into the coronal mailing list It's actually a thing that happens all the time And it's actually not the first time that the Linus or another maintainer I said this Greg kh has Been on a couple rants This himself and people have actually been banned from contributing to the coronal for doing stuff like this too So he so realistically This is real. This is just Linus warning people going like hey There's a way that this is done Uh And if you're in the chat, I did link to how to get your patches submitted into the carolin that tells you exactly how You should actually get your patches into the carolin There should be a no Tolerance policy for this because he's he's had to say this before At least twice before uh, there used to be And then people started complaining on a massive scale If you did it once You should not be able to to submit again like that's just the way I mean I I mean fine give them give them two chances, but that means feels dumb to me but I mean I mean shit if on discord servers we have rules and if you don't read the rules and break one You get kicked off and there is like if discord servers have that like that are just Essentially chat forums like something as important as the linux But the actual linux merge system should probably have strict like Have as strict if not stricter rules Well Simply because the kernel is the the operating system as a whole if you break it if you ship something that's broken That's gonna bring the the house crumbling down your head It's it's such a it's a huge system that they have to manage And the only way that system works and functions properly forget about the code itself But the only way the system works, you know the ability to You know move things into the kernel and out of the kernel and and you know all the stuff that they have to do The only way that all works is if they follow a structure that everybody agrees to follow And when someone doesn't follow that Then things go wrong. I mean In this it's it's probably nothing, you know horrendous happens, but the rules are there for a reason and When it comes to something that's this important, this is not just like a random project on github that you contribute to It's it's not a neofetch competitor, right? That you know, if this is this is the linux kernel and you have to follow the rules now I mean maybe The the rules shouldn't be like one time and you're done, but I mean there has to be some kind of More consequence than line is just coming out and say bad boy, you know and and and their latest decisions since I have Horonix rss on my discord. I keep seeing the topics about Code being removed from the kernel code being removed from the kernel support for these This hardware and that hardware being removed from the kernel and people Go up in arms against that. I am like why isn't even animals shut their skin their old skin so The kernel can is allowed to shed old useless code there are some Sometimes there are arguments that are true when like nasa like base stations and other Things they still use old hardware in nasa. They're still using those Five and a quarter inch floppies in their in their system because it just works They don't need the overhead of windows or whatever. They still use Systems from back in the 60 because they do exactly what they're supposed to do They don't need more powerful hardware or software or the thing about removing stuff from the kernel Never bothers me because They have lts kernels that are still being supported in the four series You know, I mean you you can still the four series is one thing But there is code that's been there since kernel 2 2.6 or whatever I think on a recent episode we were talking about like, uh, what was it itanium support? Yeah Yeah anium support. Uh, what was the last time you see you seen or heard of an itanium product? I know I know people who are they're gonna remove stuff out of the most recent kernels It's just the way it is and then those lts kernels from the four series That are still supported for a while now are going to be the things that you'll have to use and if for whatever reason those eventually fall out of A support which they will eventually those kernels will still exist and you could still theoretically use them or And their gpl you can just manage it yourself Right, you could just open it up and manage it yourself and keep and assuming you have the know-how and stuff But I mean if you if you're so worried about the old stuff that's in there that you need You probably should also have the know-how to maintain it So that you can continue to use it. That's one or just or just keep using it Well, one of the one of the one of the arguments that people tell me when they're talking about like oh We had to continue using ie six forever because you know, we had So and so, you know software that we had to use, you know That's fine. You can use whatever you want to use as old as it possibly can be But if you're going to rely on something that that's that is that old that is no longer supported You should also have the that is your technical that that is not the developers It should be your responsibility to maintain it once it's no longer supported by the developers And that's just the way that it should be Or if you're not willing to support the whole product maybe and i'm specifically looking at corporations here Hire a developer somewhere out there to update your application that you need i'm i mean if It can you can either do one or the two things you can either maintain the Software that it runs on and ensure that it's not something that's going to cause you to have a You know a horrendic a horrendous loss of user data Or you can you know hire a couple developers and and Actually make it so that it's modern and stop using love of all that's holy stop using flash Stop using flash Well, here's here's here's an argument a counter argument to that like we use camera in church Those cameras only you can only see the video preview of what what the camera is seeing either if you use obs But because they have you access those camera cameras via ip in the browser So when you access i e you can see the preview of what the camera is seeing within i e Because the plugin that it uses a j script whatever that It requires No longer is being supported on anything beyond i e 11. I think So now we can no longer see the preview we have to connect obs to see what the camera is seeing and windows for being Microsoft being microsoft forcing edge on us We we no longer have access to i e even if we launch ie.exe You launch ie.exe it will launch edge instead of launching ie So we now have to rely on a secondary software to be able to see and If we access them via obs we get delayed the more delayed Perfect solution to all of the stuff that we're talking about is containers Because literally you can run a really old version of windows or whatever in a container container virtual machines Virtual machine. That's what I did. I installed a virtual machine on that system in church and That's what's that's what you do. Um, Ensure that it doesn't have access to the internet if you're worried about security or whatever And just move move on with your day. Okay guys, let's go ahead and move on to the last one because I have a feeling we're going to be talking about this last one for A bit and this one is mine So the ubuntu flavors have agreed to stop using flat pack at the behest of canonical itself And the idea here isn't that you can't go to kabuntu and use flat packs You can still install flat pack if you want you can you can enable flat hub Just like you always have been able to But there are certain flavors right now that have shipped with flat pack installed and flat hub enabled Either in place of snaps or alongside snaps. I think maté Has all of them. I think if they're official flavors, they they all have to ship snap Okay, it's just that they were just packaging flat pack alongside it in the past. Okay Anyways, I I know for sure matt maté shipped both of them. Would you please stop texting me dad?  They want people to use snaps and now There are varying opinions on this and maybe we'll hear some of those here in a minute, but I think that The idea that they're basically forcing the flavors to not include flat pack out of the box Is Not the most open thing the canonical has ever done. Let's just be very nice to say it that way Right, it's just it feel it feels It feels like mark is out there saying you know what we're gonna do an IPO here pretty soon We want to have everything have our name on it and have our products being shipped out there And this is all that matters. Okay. Okay matt. Can I fight you on this? Sure? You're wrong But you can you can if you'd like to Okay, so let's say that you're canonical, right and you work in canonical support department for the enterprise customer Because canonical has the ubuntu pro and land and landscape services that the you know, they sell to enterprise consumers Well, if you're if you're working in the enterprise environment and you're using ubuntu on not only your servers But also your work stations. You're using the lts version Of ubuntu. It's the same exact lts version that you yourself can go out and install Exact same version. It's not it's not like red have words like you have a free version And then you have a you have the corporate version with the subscription and all that No, so when the enterprise customer Starts having an issue They have a phone line that they can call canonical with They call canonical canonical wants to be able to do their best effort to support the enterprise customer because that's where they make their money So when the enterprise customer is calling with with an issue on a desktop application on their work station Let's take blender for an example But the blender flat pack and the blender snap are two very different packages as well as the As well as the blender deb package and we all know that blender is a massive project that's used by a lot of animation studios so Let's just say that you want to install like a couple plugins on blender and you can't figure out Because flat pack puts everything in the dot var directory of your user user folder Whereas snap actually uses the proper config file you can carry on with this Nation, but I can tell you right now that the reason why you're wrong is because ubuntu does not support The flavors of ubuntu in an enterprise fashion says so right on their website I'm staring right at it this under support exclusions community flavors of ubuntu is not supported now. I'm assuming They use the word flavors there for a reason. They're not talking about linux mint They're talking about the flavors that they actually have so they don't support from an enterprise fashion the flavors of Ubuntu now even said that they did the vast the 99 percent Of the people who the corporations that use ubuntu as their thing use stock standard ubuntu. You agree with this. Yes Yeah, okay The majority of them that said I know I know of several shops. They actually do use flavors Okay stock standard ubuntu never shipped with flat packs in the first place So this news would not be a thing at all. That's what we were talking about. It's about the flavors and Um, maybe you're right. Maybe there are some enterprise Enterprises out there that use the flavors out there. I was from from the talks that martin wimpers has given about the numbers of people who've actually used mate which mate is Mate and kabuntu are probably the most popular flavors out there They said the number of people who use mate and kabuntu is such a small portion of the overall Number of people who use ubuntu that it's not even really something that you can You know put numbers to like it's it's such a small fraction of them. So I understand what you're saying josh that if they do have to provide support Having to provide support to someone who happens to be using the flat pack version of piece of software That'd be an excellent argument if that's what I felt that they're actually doing here But I don't think that it is it just more feels like they want to Push out flat pack because snaps is the thing that they want to promote which is fine. They're they're a corporation. They're Perfectly, it's perfectly fine for them to do that. It just feels like a canonical thing to do You know, yeah, but and also Okay, see then they they uh, they are working on a version of flat hub where they're gonna prioritize developer packages over Fan made packages where you're going to see More packages being posted by the developers themselves As opposed to some fan all that and it comes with the blue check mark too Yeah, the blue check mark. So verified packages Uh, so you can trust verified packages because you can directly contact the developer of that That package the the application Rather than contacting someone who is going to contact another person who is going to contact another person So now they are uh indirect contact. They will be in direct contact. So with flat back flat hub getting Better the way it is I don't see that as a valid excuse to to to keep snaps. Oh to prioritize snaps over There's no longer that barrier of Uh How is it said a barrier? There's no longer a barrier. It's a you can contact the developer of the snap you can contact Contact the developer of the flatback. There's no longer a barrier. So well, but even more than that like kind of the important thing is is To go back to josh's argument Uh, which is not a bad one. It's just also it doesn't seem very true because To be honest Whether or not they even supported flavors at all doesn't matter if I if I get the enterprise Support package for ubuntu and I have an enterprise use case where I need to use flat packs They have to support me like Well under the current setup of the contract. They would have to give me support. So To me, I I I don't think that's a good argument In their defense, which I I will give you credit josh. It's good to give the devil is due but also at the same time ubuntu They clearly say in it say in the article Why they're reasoning like they To me, I think if it was about support or if they had a very good technical reason for not including it in the flavors or Whatever they'd give it their simple their excuse or explanation is simply it's Including flat packs is not intrinsic to the ubuntu experience which Like in all honesty that is marketing speak for it's not ours Like that's that's really what it is. It's like They want devs and snaps they they they make them Or control them and that's it like it's just a reminder that ubuntu is not a community distribution Like they advertise themselves Exactly and then there's there's nothing wrong with what they're with they're doing here. It just if It's just another reminder Of canonical being canonical, right that they're in charge So we've talked about this before on the podcast where it seems for the most part that ubuntu doesn't care about the The desktop version of ubuntu, right? It just feels like it's been I won't say abandoned But it's just it's always on the back burner what they care about is enterprise links in you know, iot server those things All right, that's that's where they make their money. So of course that's where they're going to Put all of their focus. So that's fine But every once in a while they like, oh, yeah, we have a desktop version of this thing. Don't we Let's go mess it up.  Remember, they're going to remove the 32 bit libraries for gaming, right? Like something that steam is going to rely on for all eternity probably They decided to remove them now. It doesn't mean you couldn't get them You could always install them steam could have just made them a hard dependency when they installed steam Uh, and it would have been it would have worked perfectly fine But they removed it And it pissed everybody off and they had to backtrack, right? Every once in a while canonical remembers that they have a desktop version of of Their operating system and decides that they have to do something to piss half the people off Um, it's just it's the way they do things in a you know, whatever and this and they Sorry to cut you off, but they also don't have they one of the key things about canonical being canonical is when they explain their decision decisions for things it's Even if it is genuine it never feels genuine like Like for example, here in this article ubuntu is saying that this decision will improve the out of the out of the box ubuntu experience and like I mean, even if that's a genuine statement on their part, it doesn't feel genuine like i've Never once Like like a great example will be low-spec linux laptop jeff jeff uses Or i don't know if he's still using his ubuntu, but he's always used that the xfce flavor of ubuntu loves I don't see how at all Not including flat pack is an improvement and i also don't see how not including it is an improvement it Both ways it really doesn't matter And like that's just it's kind of an example of how they don't think none of the stuff that they say is normally genuine In everything everything they that is said about ubuntu appeals like market Well, it does and if so so two things here first of all what you say tylas true The reason why nobody takes them at their word ever for whatever they come out is because it always feels like there's something going on The background that caused them to say it right this time It's the ever lingering probably never going to happen ipo, right? I mean they've been talking about the ipo for 10 years Um supposedly it's going to happen this year. We'll see but you know That's it feels like a lot of the changes that they're making is because of that, right? So there's it always feels like they have alternative reasoning behind the things that they're doing that aren't necessarily You know the real reason why they've come out and said that they're doing something the other thing is that The flavors have always had an option The reason for flavors is to do things differently Than the vanilla version of ubuntu. That's the whole purpose of flavors because they don't want to use gnomes So they created kabuntu. They didn't like gnom3 Or they didn't like unity. So they created mate or they have a version of mate You know, they don't want to use gnomes. So they have there's an xfc version You know you name it the flavor exists because they don't want to use gnomes Therefore doing things differently than this the straight version of ubuntu, you know That's the reason why flavors exist now You could argue that a package system like flat pack is taking it too far and that the only reason flat packs are The only reason flavors are supposed to exist is because of using a different desktop environment If that's the only if that's literally the only change that flavors can make Is things having to do with desktop environment and the things that go wrong along with it Then fine Say so but that's not historically how it's been Right flavors have historically been able to make any decision basically that they want Uh, from why are they are their hands suddenly tied? With with the flat pack Not like why are they suddenly tied but why tie them at all like exactly we all know why It also discredits all the effort that canonical has made into actually getting some of these Some of these larger customers to actually make packages or software as snaps because since the implementation of snap craft And uh, well, which was the first of these containerized formats besides docker. It was actually inspired by docker There's been several projects. I can't I can't remember what what they all are But uh, they were packaged as snap packages first through the efforts from canonical going like hey We will help you port your project to to linux just uh, let's package it up as a snap package and get in this containerized format That way we we can control all the library dependencies and such So there there's been a lot of work and effort into that There is a big point to make there also because this is how canonical sells it We we ensure stability for your application like that's a big deal The problem with those two arguments though is that none of the flavor I mean josh, you said it yourself all the flavors already include snaps They're not they weren't taking snaps away They just had the option to also have flat packs there alongside if somebody wanted to use a flat pay because uh, well here here's the thing Say that i'm adobe and one one day by the grace of god has struck over me And I decided I was going to package my my photoshop as a snap package on ubuntu Next thing I know I'm getting a call I'm getting a I see the support ticket from this guy complaining about a flat pack Because somebody decided that we're going to unpack the snap snap and repackage it as a flat pack and post it on flat hub For one thing that's probably going to be very very illegal for them to do But that doesn't stop them from doing it because you know, you can unpack a snap package and repackage it into whatever you want So what do you do as adobe you go you go look at canonical going like hey Why am I getting a support ticket for this guy from a flat pack? But I don't think that's a problem for adobe or canonical just developers ignore Uh, I support the question all the time you probably can I mean, I mean you just you just see if it's not coming from a platform that you would I mean seriously you can run creative cloud or Maybe an old version of photoshop. I'm steep does it all the time. He runs photoshop on linux all the time, right? um If he has a problem with photoshop on linux, he's not going to go to adobe and say hey, this is broken I mean, it's just not it's just not supported. He's doing something outside of the support Well, each package format what matt is saying is each package format you go to the package format Maintainer not everybody knows to do that though Well, that's true. That's true with that. Josh. You do have a good point. You do have a good point That's not but there is a hard job to direct those users to the correct path, right? Flat flat pack. No, no, no guys. It's your job to ignore it, right flat pack flat hub and flat pack have a uh a responsibility to do better on telling you where The package is coming from they definitely they do say so, but it's not explicit all the time that you have to scroll down Right When you go to beta dot beta dot flat hub dot or this is what they're Yeah, they're working on it right that that snaps has had the same problem in the past Where it's not the official developer putting in the snap Because anybody can make a snap package anybody but guys this is not a new problem You know since the history of of you know linux packages have been brought over from windows imported over by developers from of not the actual developer, right? They've just created packages like and You wouldn't expect someone who created a dev package of you know discord or something like that to Like if you had a dev package of discord, you wouldn't expect the users to go to discord for support You just you know that's Because you're using an unsupported package Basically now I understand this is a situation with a you are Yeah, you wouldn't You guys are right that it is a problem that people need to know where the package came from that's that's That's something that they need to definitely make sure is a hundred percent there, right? There should be an awareness campaign but The inherent problems of flat pack and snaps aside this whole argument Is it has nothing to do with those things that they they didn't they didn't come out and say flat packs are bad They just said that they wanted to use snaps, which is again. I want to go back to the point I mean someone someone in the chest said this is a pointless argument Maybe maybe it is most of our arguments are pointless. First of all, what's what's your point? um Just I mean I mean come on if you watch the podcast before all of our arguments are this way the the The thing is like This is not the first time they did it in the last maybe it was two versions to go of a boon two They killed off a package that was necessary for app images to work, right? They just didn't include it anymore Now whether they did that on purpose or it was a mistake. I don't know Uh, I'm not gonna assign evil intentions to somebody who maybe they just decided not to maintain that package anymore You know, whatever they do that all the time decided that the package that Hardly anybody uses is no longer worthwhile to maintain but they included in and I think it was an LTS version of a boon two a Situation where if you wanted to run flat pat or not flat packs app images You couldn't do so because there was one of the dependencies that is required for app images. Just wasn't there, right? So there If you take that and you take this Flat pack thing In concert with one another it comes across as them being anti other platform packages, which is again It's their platform.  Okay As josh said not a community project The canonical has full control over a boon two uh But my point is is that they don't always exercise it and that's the reason why we get confused because It's operated like a community distro All the time until canonical remembers that they own it and decided they're going to do to do things to it right, yeah, and when you want to first hit the The masses it was advertised as a Community-based distro. So they used to distribute that thing via kiosks on CDs that used to burn The image to a cd and it would give it to you And they were propagating it to the users As a community addition Our community distro Now it's less and less and less and less that because they're not acting as a community distro they're acting as a As a server-based distro as a money raising thing as a corporation even even if your your distribution Claims itself as a community distro like say fedora does right, but we all know that red hat sits behind fedora and The vast majority of people who develop on fedora work for red hat. So, you know, there's going to be a lot of influence there It's the same thing with with a boon two, right? It's You know the people who work on a boon two and the people who work at canonical Basically the same people probably right.  It is not going to it's it's not a reasonable expectation Arch is a community distro gen two is a community distro.  It's it's very community developed, right? The another example that isn't talked about is like nyxos nyxos is actually a corporate distro. It's It's developed by a cabal of corporations, right? So So there are there's there's different distros and the way they work and Honestly, that's fine. It's all good. It's just the way they did this just came across as Anti other things and The reason why that even matters is just because for ages the flavors have basically been able to do whatever they wanted to do Now it feels like now they can right now now it now it feels like those things They're trying to shoehorn all the flavors into being ubuntu just with different desktop environments So just create one installer And let the users select whatever flavor they want and call it a day and probably should that's probably should the way that they do But that you can do it through calamari's Yes, just ask our cool Linux. They have like 25 different desktops. That's fantastic. All right guys We have to move on. We're running up on on time here. Uh, steve. Are you going to run out of power here in nine minutes? No, no, okay. Good. All right. Let's go ahead and then and move on to the thingies Of the week so we could have called the section basically anything. I'm sure But all those were trademarks So we came up with a very clever name and called them thingies of the week get your mind out of the gutter So, uh, josh, why don't you tell us what your thingy of the week is? Uh, so as you guys may or may not know I'm that guy that has a server rack in my closet and uh as a result of of you know, my wonderful internet connection Which you know, even uh defeat steve in terms of unreliability means that it means that you know When I go to upload update my system, you know, because you know, I run this debbing thing and not gen two where things actually work properly Uh Sometimes the download fails or because of latency massive latency swings and all that But uh, you know, I've decided that you know what we're we're just going to self host a package repository for debbing Which you know, it is not small at all. It's only like 2.3 terabytes. Not a big deal whatsoever But anyways, my app pick for helping me manage it this week is a is a program called apt-mirror Or basically you can use this And hook it to a cron job and literally download the entire debbing repository. Just like you would up Through your package manager That sounds like a nightmare What happens when I mean does that does it constantly then once you get it all up downloaded, which would take a bit Just a small bit of time Then when when it pulls in updates, does it just constantly do that or does it refresh? Does it refresh the whole repository just the things that are updated? It just pulls in the things that are updated. Okay I could just I can just imagine every time they pull push a refresh to the repository.  I totally haven't had issues using the app package manager, you know failing mid-transaction then having to uh kill kill the pit reboot the system Uh, and then fix apps and then that way, you know, I complete the system update I haven't had to do that earlier this week at all Yeah Yeah, all right, uh, if only I can do that Steve you Steve you're thinking of the week My thinking of the week this week is related unsurprisingly to the steam deck. No Nothing is coming at all. It's not like we went through this whole thing when tyler got his Yeah Well, mine is My my honeymoon period is going to be very short. So, uh, it's going to be over by the end of the next week Uh, but this thing is called cryo utilities by cryo 33 something or other Uh, it's an amazing tool for those who play triple a titles on their steam deck. I don't Only triple a title that I run is the upload Battle.net, but anyway, uh, this one, uh, will add options like one click Set up the recommended settings one click revert to stock settings swap Tuner, this is very big and huge for the thinkers out there. It allows you to change the swap size the swap file size Whoppiness changer memory parameters tuning huge pages toggle compaction Proactivness changer huge page defragmentation toggle page lock unfairness changer shared memory SH mem toggle storage managers sync shared cache and comp data to the to the same location Game is installed on delete shader cache and comp data to whichever games you select full cli mode This thing is the bee's knees when it comes to tweaking your deck low level style.  I thought it was good. I I liked hearing it. It's been a minute. It's the bee's knees. We gotta raise the roof yo All right Okay, I'm old Yeah, I'm sorry No, it's fine. You wouldn't you wouldn't join the podcast if you didn't know you were eventually going to be the target of rita killon and Yeah, exactly It's fine But it really is a very powerful tool. I recommend it to anyone who's running AAA titles, especially memory intensive titles I didn't try it, but I would I watched a lot of videos about it and developer himself Uh has a massive Guide, I think it's a 45 minute guide or 35 minute guide on how to use that thing. He goes into metaphors. He explains what swap is It's it's it's a it's a recommended watch Uh, I might if I get if I install If I just should Decide to install god of war On on the steam deck because it's my favorite game right now Uh, I would immediately Use that because I want the best performance and the longest battery life And he was able to get three hours Uh on a AAA title It's completely smooth Between 40 and 60 fps On on a lot of heavy graphically intensive titles I would just like to take this moment to apologize to all the graybeards in the chat right now that are sharpening their uh pitchforks, uh, I apologize. Um, don't cancel me, please I'm just really sorry man. I didn't make to make fun No, no when Tyler I first started doing the podcast together Um, I always make used to make generalizations about old people and I I always had to apologize for that There's one guy always who always emailed me saying hey, you really shouldn't make Tell say all old people are exactly the same and he was right Um, but I continued to make generalizations. So I apologize not all old people use the words bee's knees Um, just steve Well, well, I'm not and number two. I'm not american So I use whatever come it comes to me from tv shows that I remember The expressions from tv shows back in the 70s Yeah, you know, he's so far away from us that it takes time for our television shows to make it over to his country He's still And The jefferson's and stuff But uh, but yeah, uh, uh guys, uh, whoever plays triple eight titles. You need to try that Tyler if you play daisy well, I I don't think that game would require that but you never know You might actually there is a couple things that this tool does that I've done and I wouldn't say it's provided a Noticeable improvement, but there is definitely an improvement. It's just like Especially with daisy and already as long as you find two Yeah, it depends on the it depends on the on the game. He was able to get frame times for some games, uh, from, uh, From 64 fps to 60 to from uh But 64 no 34 fps to 60 fps Oh using that tool. So it's all in his video Uh, I watched the entirety of it. Although I'm not going to be using it I I watched it because I I'm a thinker and I love to know more about How things work Uh, and I was really really surprised at what he's done and that's all by one single guy so he brought the steam deck 200 levels up Using this tool. All right, and he he's a pure developer and I can confirm this program already does not work on devian Well, that's not a surprise Tyler you're thinking of the week Uh, mine is hopefully a tool that everyone has heard about. Um, it's Webcourt, um, I'm talking to you guys from it. So yeah, uh-huh So what webcourt is it's really nice. Um, it's So it's one of those alternative. Okay camera Out of focus. All right, really out of focus There we go. Who needs focus? Yeah, exactly So the the cool thing about webcourt is it's it's an alternative to regular the regular discord client That's not going to get you banned because it's literally just You can think about webcourt as a dedicated browser for the web version of discord, um with With browser options that only pertain to discord and it's it's Exceptually nice. It works really well. It's got some nice added features that the regular discord client doesn't have It's not like mind-blowing features or anything. It's just little nice extras that you you've probably wanted And then the big thing about webcourt is If you're running Wayland, you want to do screen sharing or you just kind of want a more reliable discord experience Webcourt is uh as far as I know, it's pretty much the only worthwhile option. Um, there's definitely other clients out there, but Pretty much nothing other than webcourt is guaranteed not to get you banned Which is at least in my opinion kind of a big deal so Yeah, I would definitely recommend webcourt if you haven't heard of it or if you have Another another big thing with webcourt is it connects to different servers It's the only discord client that allows me from lebanon To connect to you guys via video or audio or whatever. Uh, we we both do our podcast on uh On discord, but for me to be able to do the podcast on discord Is webcourt because for whatever reason uh Discord the official discord application or web interface because I use this I also use discord officially through podium Uh instance, which is the web version of discord Uh, even that Gives me the wrtc connecting and it never connects It never ever connects Whereas with webcourt instant connection and it's i'm always in the green. I'm not even in the orange Reconnection like mine to be always in the green that say in i honestly didn't even think about that until you said it but that is The rtc connecting thing like I don't have it like not connect often, but I I do occasionally from time to time using regular discord I do have it show up and like it hangs there for a few seconds. I've never ever have that happen in webcourt ever Exactly same here. No for me in discord. It stays on wrtc connecting. It never moves away from it And the weird thing about it is when I connect to my second isp It works, but i'm in the orange So it's always latency and orange means latency is high thing is high So, uh, it's always in the orange, but it connects on my second isp because I have two isps I juggled between two Because they're like five dollars a month for each. So they're cheap And understandably cheap because they don't give enough speed or whatever, but uh, webcourt Never have I like you said have I had anything except green and it connects instantly I don't know what black magic they do what servers they use or whatever It just works. The only annoying part of webcourt is when you copy when you capture a screenshot Use it like on kde using practical print screen When you do right click in the chat box to paste there is no right click. It says empty You have to paste it with control v That's the only annoyance. Although I give it all the access from from flat seal and the kde settings Still it won't take the right click. It just gives me empty So that's the only annoyance with the webcourt. It doesn't have access to the clipboard via context menu Other than that It's also available as a negative or package Yeah, it it is Also, I will say that's another thing about webcourt is you can get it pretty much anywhere. It's really They've got 27 release binaries to pick from so it is definitely available anywhere Yeah I think I'll build it from source Just kidding. All right. All right my my thinking of the week this week I was going to use dead cells. Um, but I decided not to do one that was related to the steam deck because I'm not a fan boy But mine is called upscaler and this is available as a flat pack I'm not sure where else this is available. I didn't actually look it is available as a flat pack But basically what it is is you feed it an image it upscales it to the highest resolution that it possibly can So tyler, you remember when you were coming up with a store and you had to ask dylan to always upskill everything to really high resolution This application does that It works and and it's and it's great. You don't you don't lose You don't lose quality.  It's like Five times the size of it. So you have to have to shrink it down. But um, yeah, if you need to upscale images It's fantastic. I wish it It's a gtk. It's a gtk app created by the uh By someone from the from the gnome development, whatever. I don't care It's part of their suite and it's I include it on Yeah, it's it's it's really good. Anyways, that's that's mine Anyways, that's it for this podcast before we go. We should take a moment to thank my current patrons Thanks to everybody who does support me on patreon and youtube you guys are all absolutely amazing without you the channel Is not me anywhere near where it is right now. So thank you so very much for your support I truly do appreciate it If you want to support me on patreon patreon.com slash linux cast find links to all the fellas The links cast.org slash contact which is As previously mentioned the best place to find all the contact information. So we'll be back next week We record this every saturday around three o'clock p.m. Eastern time on youtube.com slash links cast. We'll see you next week Bye keep on decking I'm so glad to have a partner in crime now fantastic Oh, you're talking about me. Yes, finally someone here to just remind everyone that we got a deck Uh, and and speaking of which when will you and I