Basal ganglia as the nail indicates is a group of nuclei located at the base of the brain. So, what are these nuclei? These are caudate nucleus, putamen, globus pallidus, substantia nigra pass reticulata and subthalamic nucleus. So, these five nuclei form the basal ganglia. Now, among these caudate nucleus and putamen together are known as striatum. Now, this striatum acts as a receiving nuclei of basal ganglia. That is, striatum receives the afferents which are coming through the basal ganglia. While, globus pallidus and substantia nigra pass reticulata are the output nuclei. That means they send the efferents from the basal ganglia. And subthalamic nuclei is connected to the globus pallidus. Now, let us elaborate on that basic circuitry. Palamic trigger, exciting the cortex and palimus send the negative control of basal ganglia. So, instead of basal ganglia, now we will introduce the receiving and output nuclei of basal ganglia. So, instead of basal ganglia, let us write here striatum and globus pallidum. Since, globus pallidus is the output nuclei of the basal ganglia. So, that means globus pallidus will send the inhibitory signal to the palimus. So, here it will be globus pallidus. Now, this striatum receives signals either from cortex or from substantia nigra pass compacta which causes release of dopamine. For simplicity sake, we are writing here only as cortex. But actually, this striatum receives input from vast areas of the cortex. So, there are various loops connecting different regions of the cortex to basal ganglia and palimus. So, one of these loops is the motor loop, where motor cortex has connections with the striatum. The striatum has connections with globus pallidus, palimus and again back to the cortex. Then, there are other loops also which is non-motor loops. This is there the basal ganglia has connections with the singulate cortex. So, this will be responsible for the limbic and emotional functions. So, like the movement for the facial expressions, the expression of emotions. So, these non-motor loops are the ones which control that limbic and emotional functions. Then, there is another ocular motor loop also for control of the eye movement. However, we are splitting these into loops, but you see the main activity of basal ganglia and all the loops will be to modulate the thalamocortical activity. That is, either for the initiation of motor activity or for the suppression of motor activity. So, when initiation of any motor activity is needed, we will want that this inhibitory control of the basal ganglia to the thalamus should be withdrawn, so that thalamus is able to stimulate the cortex. For suppression of motor activity, we will need that this inhibitory control of the basal ganglia to the thalamus is retained or maybe even made stronger and thalamus is not able to excite the cortex. Now, this is a schematic diagram of basal ganglia nuclei showing this tritum, pallidum as two parts, globus pallidus externa and globus pallidus interna. We were telling that pallidus inhibits the thalamus. So, here that internal part of the pallidus that is the globus pallidus internus actually keeps the thalamus inhibited. Then, we know that excitatory signals from thalamus go to the cortex. Now, we will introduce some other components also. So, apart from GPi, there is another nucleus that is the substantia nigra pas reticulose, which also keeps thalamus inhibited. Now, in direct pathway, the stricter neurons have an inhibitory control over neurons of GPi. Because the stricter is directly inhibiting the output nuclei of basal ganglia, that is why this is known as the direct pathway. It also inhibits substantia nigra pas reticulose. But remember, these stricter neurons do not fire tonically. Only when they are activated, they will burst inhibition. Tonic firing occurs in GPi and Snvr. Okay, now let us see the indirect pathway. In indirect pathway, two more nuclei come into hold. That is the GPi and subthalamic nucleus. So, in indirect pathway, stricter inhibits GPi, which in turn inhibits GPi. So, if you see what is happening, that stricter is actually exciting GPi. In direct pathway, what happened? That stricter was inhibiting GPi so that GPi won't be able to inhibit thalamus. That means the thalamus was becoming disinhibited. Here, GPi is actually inhibiting GPi. But if GPi is inhibited by stricter, it will not be able to inhibit GPi and GPi will continuously keep on inhibiting thalamus. Another nucleus which has a role in indirect pathway is subthalamic nucleus. Subthalamic nucleus has an excitatory connection with globus pallidus in turnus. So, that means when subthalamic nucleus is active, globus pallidus will be able to inhibit thalamus more. But subthalamic nucleus is itself inhibited by globus pallidus in turnus. So, basically in indirect pathway, this GPi, globus pallidus in turnus, is inhibiting globus pallidus in turnus by two ways. First, by directly inhibiting globus pallidus in turnus and secondly, preventing the excitation of GPi from subthalamic nucleus by inhibiting subthalamic nucleus. Let's summarize what we have understood till now. First of all, for movement to be initiated, thalamus should excite cortical neurons. For this, GPi should be inhibited since GPi is tonically inhibiting thalamus. Only when GPi is inhibited, thalamus will be disinhibited and it will be able to excite the cortex. Secondly, we saw that stricter neurons are not always active. But when they are active, they can act by two pathways, direct and indirect. Now, the fundamentals. You see the direct pathway when it is active, it facilitates movement. And when indirect pathway is active, it inhibits movement. How? Indirect pathway? Because stricter is inhibiting GPi, GPi will not be able to inhibit thalamus. Thus, thalamus can send excitatory signals to cortex. So, thalamus is triggering cortex for movement. So, indirect pathway is facilitated movement. On the other hand, indirect pathway, if you solve all these connections, what will happen? That ultimately, it will cause GPi to be able to inhibit thalamus more. So that, thalamus will not be able to excite cortex. So, indirect pathways inhibiting movement. So, how can the movement be initiated? Now, this direct and indirect pathway which we saw exists for each and every movement. Say for example, if you want to flex your arm. So, there is one direct pathway and one indirect pathway for your elbow flexion. So, direct pathway will facilitate elbow flexion and indirect pathway will inhibit elbow flexion. Similarly, for elbow extension, there is direct pathway and also an indirect pathway. Direct pathway facilitates elbow extension and indirect pathway inhibits elbow extension. So, if you want to flex your elbow, what happens? The direct pathway of elbow flexion is activated so that there is facilitation of elbow flexion and indirect pathway of elbow extension is activated so that there is inhibition of elbow extension. As we have said here, direct pathway facilitates movement, indirect pathway inhibits movement. So, for successful elbow flexion to occur, direct pathway of this movement is activated and indirect pathway of opposite movement is inhibited. But what about indirect pathway of elbow flexion? If that is also activated, then even if there is activation of the direct pathway, indirect pathway will tend to suppress that movement. So, there will be hesitation or trouble in initiating the movement. Because, indirect pathway is kind of putting a break on that point. So, here comes the role of dopamine released from substantial micro-pass compactor. Neurons from substantial micro-pass compactor have connections with the striator. These neurons release dopamine which act on a striator neurons in a differential manner. The released dopamine cites the direct pathway but it inhibits the indirect pathway. So, since direct pathway facilitates movement, its excitation facilitates the movement. And since indirect pathway inhibits movement, dopamine inhibits indirect pathway and thus facilitating the movement. So, this dopamine is said to have a modulated tree role for the movement. Because cortex itself is able to initiate the movement. However, indirect pathway will put a break on it. But dopamine will facilitate the movement and there will be no hesitation in initiating the movement. Problems in this circuitry will create movement disorders. Either there will be disorders in initiation of motor activity or disorders in suppression of motor activity. If flobus pallidus does not inhibit thalamus when required, it will lead to increased excitatory signal from thalamus to the cortex. This will happen because flobus pallidus is not able to inhibit thalamus. So, this increased trigger will lead to hyperkinetic disorders. On the other hand, if pallidum suppresses too much, that means this inhibitory signal becomes too strong, there will be decreased excitation of cortex from the thalamus. So, this green signal will be lesser and it will lead to some hypokinetic disorders because cortex is less excited. So, with basal ganglia disorders, there can be movement disorders of both types in which there is a problem in initiation of motor activity which are known as the hyperkinetic disorders and there may be problems in suppression of motor activity which are known as the hyperkinetic disorders.


What is going on guys welcome back to the channel critical overload here So we're talking about nightmare in Elm Street in this video here today and talking about what it seems Robert England wants to do for nightmare in Elm Street and what he thinks the best step forward would be for nightmare in Elm Street and Going over this idea that he apparently had not that he had but that he was aware of that never came for a wish in In relation to a prequel film for nightmare in Elm Street It was called like first kills or the first kills or something like that So he's touched on this prequel over the over the last decade or so Even prior to that. I think he hit the first time I work I think I came across him talking about this was a article all the way back from 2003 After the release of Freddy vs. Jason, but more recently in the later 2010s in like 2018 2019 And then at the start of 2020 even he was talking about this project called the first kills that unfortunately never came to fruition now He said that He said that there was this great script. This is in some interviews I'm reading There was a great script called Krueger the first kills and he talked to somebody from New Line about it at an Oscar party at one Time they wanted to do it documentary style And I thought that was a great idea and the best characters were the lawyers who get Freddy off during the courtroom scenes The cops who catch Freddy were great characters too and of course it ends with Freddy being burned alive and I heard that at one time They were thinking of John McNaughton as the director who did Henry portrait of a serial killer That is something I really wish could have happened He has also gone on record estate that that's one of his biggest regrets I guess with this franchise that this prequel movie never came to fruition now the fact that There was something like this in the works Does make me intrigued to see how it would have played out because it seems as though going off of how many times he's brought it up and The enthusiasm he seems to have had when talking about it He seems like he's on the direction of thinking that they should a not try to reboot or remake that original movie again But if you're going to revive this franchise for a second time do a prequel movie first Introduce your new audience to Freddy Introduce them to springwood introduce them to all of this stuff that transpires prior to Freddy becoming a Nightmare demon and then go from there, and I'm not saying I would be against that As much as I would have loved to see this play out with Robert England in the role Because I think Robert England himself is in a place where he's like, okay I would rather see someone else do the role But if they find a way for me to cameo then it seems like he would be down to at least return in some capacity as Freddy Krueger for a brief second. He's also given a stamp of approval for Kevin Bacon taking on the role of Freddy Krue I know many other people have also stated they would love to see that portrayal come from Bacon himself So if we see a new night a new nightmare in Elm Street movie They could do a film in which we see the parents of springwood and This trial that Freddy endured and how he got off due to a technicality getting to see Freddy in prison Getting to see all of these different things play out prior to what actually happens in the French as we all know And love and then branch it out into your own new modernized franchise That borrows aspects of these sequels and the original film that again everyone knows and love But you're doing your own unique spin on it. You can have You can have Nancy in it if you want to but I would probably leave Nancy out of it You know come up with a whole new slew of spring wood Springwood kids for us to grow invested in because and I a movie where it's just Freddy Krueger as a human first And we get to see this man Go on these killings and target these children And a lot of ways if it's done in the style of the black phone I think that could work. Maybe even bring in the person more responsible for the black phone I can't think of their name right now about a little also responsible for sinister If you can do a movie in the vein of that related to a child murderer and it's tied to Nightmare Elm Street I think you would have a hit on your hands because the concept of Krueger the first kills while it sounds unique I am a little disappointed that if it were to happen It would not include Robert England most likely because too much time is coming on Because it sounds like what happened to this project is it got lost somewhere in between a merging of companies and They they never talked about it ever ever again But apparently it was something that was very close to happening because Robert England has talked about it on so many different Different occasions in the past and we've heard nothing but mentions of How Freddy was prior to becoming this dream demon throughout the series We haven't actually seen anything play out in a full-length film But even at the start of Freddy versus Jason we get to see Robert England playing a human version of Fred Krueger before he became that nightmare demon and even that was something very nice to see and exciting to see We do get to see glimpses of what he was like prior to being that demon in Even Freddy's dead the final nightmare when we learn about his daughter and his and the childhood She had and her ties to Freddy all of that stuff and how she was taken from him So if they want to do a movie where we've chronicle Freddy as a human Freddy getting caught Freddy going through trial Lawyers that are involved the two cops that are involved that I guess the due to the technicality and their mistakes end up Resulting in Freddy getting off and then having the movie end with the thing We know brought him to where he is now with the parents of springwood taking matters in their own hands because they Find the system to be faulty they find the system to be corrupt They want justice for their kids and if the system cannot bring them that correct set of justice They are going to get that justice in their own hands So the movie of course within where Freddy being burned in his factory and that's how the movie was in and then of course You can establish your own new sequel if that prequel film is successful Stablish a whole new sequel set it many years later Give us a whole new slew of kids to follow in springwood You don't even have to bring back Nancy or any of these other people It can be a remake that's redoing its own thing at that point I guess it wouldn't even be a remake it would be more of a reboot if you don't have Nancy or anyone involved in it But I think that if they were to do a prequel movie and then just branch out into their own unique franchise going forward that would be a good reboot route to take and I liked coming across these articles of Robert England Mentioning this project that just never happened because it really just sparked my intrigue as to how that probably could have worked out Something that might have reminded a lot of people even a movie like Joker And again something like the black phone even with Scott Derrickson Responsible for this new iteration of Freddy Krueger as a human seeing him as a child murderers going through this trial Seeing how he got off and then ultimately seeing the parents taking matters into their own hands That could have played out very well, especially if Robert England would have gotten to be in the role But unfortunately if it were to happen today That's not going to happen because Robert England is getting up there in age But he has made it known that he would be down for a cameo as far as we know right now with nightmare in Elm Street The Craven estate they last I heard they're trying to get a new project going either in the form of a movie or a TV show But nothing has Concretely come out about anything moving forward with that IP since we heard about the Craven estate being open to accepting pitches So hopefully Freddy Krueger can return in the future because with Jason now being on his way back Freddy seems like the last person out of the icons that we're all waiting to see back And hopefully it happens sooner rather than later But let me know just think about this prequel that didn't happen down in the comment section below if you haven't already of course Make sure you subscribe turn on post notification that you never miss a video in the description I'll have links on social media accounts. I'm on Facebook Twitter and Instagram You can message me there of course to let me know if there are any movies news or reviews Let me to cover in the future and with all that in mind guys. I will see you in the next video


Surya nice quick win with the white pieces black did not really try to do anything It seemed like you were all play and he wasn't really trying to make find any good plan Yeah, it felt pretty much one-sided I mean especially after his move rook fc8 I think that was you know completely playing on the wrong direction here to somehow start playing on king side so it was this nad of g3 line with knight b3 I played and We got this typical structure with pot on d5 I have double bishop, but okay my bishop is on g2 is kind of not doing anything at that point and I was expecting like every move I was expecting he would you know play some knight e8 g6 f5 And I tried to push on queen side, but when he played rook fc8 I was very happy because it clearly showed the intent his intention that he wants to play on queen side and I mean queen said I have majority and once the position got opened It was very clear that I had to find some precise moves like Quincy for I was very happy about So once I saw Quincy for I realized it'll be winning because his pawns are kind of falling apart Yeah Right now on paper you were clearly higher on rating and the favorite in this game But and it often happens that players take a passive role then But that's never a good idea when you're playing against a stronger player You've got to go for this idea like g6 f5 and kind of make your own plans No, absolutely and also in a tournament like Gibraltar. You see like offsets happening in every single round. I mean already Gelfand and Swidler dropped a point and Karwana was losing other day Vesha was losing you young he was losing on the first round So you see like, you know, there are players who are actually playing aggressive and Yeah, I mean even today's game if you look at Swidler's opponent, he's just you know, they're actually going for it and the problem is Yeah, I mean if you also overpress with all these players, you know, it can backfire You can get into trouble as well. And in fact on the first round you yourself did not have an ideal start You do but you wonder for next two games. How do you recover from something like the first round draw? I just don't bother. I just try to get a good sleep and Yeah, talking about this games. I just saw like Sarvana is playing actually excellent No, it's I mean the way I understand why it is absolutely better. And it's clearly is playing for win against event. It's probably winning I mean if he doesn't mess up as well It's gonna be interesting to watch and now you're somebody who comes back to Gibraltar really often you like this tournament Yeah, yeah, I like this tournament. Yeah, I really like this tournament I like the place and everything about this tournament love to come back again and again Well, thank you very much and you wish you all the best for the remaining rounds. Thank you


Hi everybody, my name is Lasse and I'm here on behalf of Voxy Everybody who's ever worked on a consumer product has at one point or another thought about using bloggers or influence for marketing and It's easy enough to come up with a couple of big-name influences, but What about those tens of thousands of smaller influences who might be a perfect fit for your company? But of whom you've never even heard and it's actually those smallest influences who perform the best Micro influences so influences who have say 5,000 followers instead of a million they actually perform much better their engagement rate is five times higher than that of other influences But the trouble with micro influences is to run a large-scale campaign you'd need maybe 100 of them and You can imagine the hassle of Contacting briefing following up with handling payments for 100 micro influences and Yeah, it's time-consuming and it's expensive and this This is where boxy comes in boxy makes buying influencer marketing easy Easy and affordable our goal is to make buying influencer marketing as easy as buying Facebook marketing is it shouldn't take you longer than a couple of minutes and You should be able to do it no matter where you are on your phone on your tablet or on your laptop and I'll jump back in time to the very beginning We found at boxy just six months ago and in these six months We've not only built the first version of our platform But we've also got some sales We've sold over a hundred thousand euros worth of campaigns in four different countries to clients Ranging from one of Scandinavia's biggest banks to startups such as vault or zada and the one thing The one thing all our clients have in common is they all love our product and they all are coming back for more Business model wise we are a hybrid between a marketplace and a star solution We charge a 20% commission on all transactions that go through boxy and Because boxy makes buying influencer marketing so easy It's actually a lot cheaper for our customers to use boxy than to do it themselves and The other alternative of course would be to buy the same marketing visibility from an influencer agency or A marketing agency and compared to those boxy is roughly 70 to 90 percent cheaper So once you look at the return on investment on your marketing budget that makes a huge difference So to all the startups out there and also all the other companies if you're thinking about influencer marketing And you should be thinking about influencer marketing boxy will save you so much time and money. Thank you Thank you How do you describe your usp Influencer marketing in general is a busy space. There are lots of players in it today Many of them would target with focus on micro influencers as well when you go and sell to your customers What are the features that you think really kind of drive that sale home? Yes, first of all We started in Finland. We've only worked in a couple of markets and the funniest thing is actually quite a few markets None of the platforms are there I know there are a couple of competing platforms and I can just answer in a moment what makes us really really different But in most countries and markets none of the platforms are operating So basically for them the biggest sales argument is it's a lot better and more effective than any other in Influencer instrument. They are using at the moment When you say they're not operating What do you mean? I mean it in the same way as we say we've done a campaign in Sweden So we say we operate in Sweden But for example in Finland none of the companies basically we've spoken to have used any platform They've all used only agencies and so which markets are you focusing on geography wise? We started here, but we are not focusing on Finland at all. We are planning going. Yeah much much much much further We did a quick market study for example in Germany out of the old influence We contacted nine out of ten had never even heard about any platform How do you acquire influencers now? Acquiring influences. It's actually the easy part for us. We basically for any given market We scrape a huge list of influences a pinpoint those who perform best and Contacting the what we've noticed is contacting them and bringing them is in is actually quite easy because they are getting paid for it Thank you. Yeah Can you track and analyze which influences are working out and what kind of ROI? Yet from them. Yes. Yes a campaign specifically we can use codes when we can track the whole funnel and see how it goes Running a little low on time. But yeah, we track all the performances engagements per each influencer over time and yeah Thank you. Thank you very much Thank you


Since I was a kid, my dream was always to be a magician. I grew up watching David Copperfield's specials in reading books about Houdini, but I also devoured fantasy and horror books dealing with their versions of real magic. Like lots of children, I got a little magic kit for Christmas one year, full of sponge balls, a wand that would push out silk flowers, and a small stuffed rabbit that would hide in the inner pocket of a small collapsible polyester top hat. Unlike most children, I stuck with it. And any family vacation led me to begin meticulous research of any magic shops on the route, followed by a campaign of whining and extra diligence in my chores to ensure I got the necessary detours to pick up some new book or item. Then at 35, I still truly love magic, believe in magic. Want to hone my craft as a stage magician, which has been my trade for the past few years, and still hold out some dim hope in the deepest recesses of my heart that one day, just maybe, I'll see real magic instead of the illusions I perform. But I know that's not realistic or likely, so I practice stage magic in its place, pick up new tricks where I can by working as backups and assistants to more well-known and experienced illusionists.  It's very much up to debate if the Great Sadeer was ever actually great. From what I hear, he was never very original or talented, but early in his career he had a whole Indian mystique theme going that was unique enough to draw in decent crowds. Then he got bit by a snake, spent a week in the hospital due to infection, and after that he apparently pretty much said screw it. Goodbye cool turban with mysterious satars playing in the background.  When I got to him, he was a bad alcoholic and a worse stage performer, but the tragic thing was that he did have a lot of knowledge and some talent. I saw an opportunity to learn, so I joined up with him. And he has taught me a few things, though he doled them out with agonizing slowness to ensure my continued indentured servitude. But it's whatever. I think I've learned all I can and I'm at my limit. He is half in the bag already and it's the early show. When I finally cinched the fake noose around his fat neck, I find myself wishing he didn't have the harness.  That's when Johnny Quick comes up to me. If you don't follow magicians closely or didn't a few years back, you probably don't know who Johnny Quick even is. But there was a time where he had a BFD in certain magicians circles. He was never flashy and he never played big venues, but he always had money and he could do tricks that other magicians couldn't spot. Nimbl just chalked it up to how fast and nimble his hands were, which was where his name came from. It stuck. And he started using it as his stage name until he suddenly fell off the map a couple of years ago. I knew all this because I'm obsessed with magicians, not because I've ever met him. And meeting him, dirty alley or no, was a huge deal for me.  I was about to launch into some embarrassing gushing about how awesome he was when he beat me to it. Hey, I'm Johnny. Your name's Keith, right? I nodded, beaming like the girl with the bedazzled headgear who just got asked to prom.  I laughed. You have no idea. He grinned. Well, your stuff was good. Especially your close-up work with that woman from the audience. I felt myself flushing at the compliment, but he was already moving on. Good, but not as good as it could be. I can help you get better. Way better. I felt lightheaded. Was this some kind of prank? Uh, really? You do that? He nodded and I went on. Well, sure, that'd be awesome. What did you have in mind? He glanced up and down the alley with a theatricality only a magician can muster before leaning in towards me. How would you like to learn? Real magic. Over the next week, Johnny taught me what he knew, and what he knew surprisingly enough was actual real magic, specifically two tricks. He could make things appear and make things disappear. At first, I thought it had to be an illusion, of course, but over time, as he showed me how to increase my speed, the proper angles to hold my hands, the images and words I had to hold in my head depending on the object I was working with, I realized it was real. It was actual magic. The funny thing is, once you know how to do it, it's easy. It really just feels like a natural extension of sleight of hand. But instead of palming an object or pulling it from a hidden pocket, you were literally pulling it out of thin air. Within some limits, you could pull any object you could clearly imagine into the world and you could make most objects you could lay your hand on disappear. I asked Johnny how he'd learned to do it, and he was always vague. But after I had it down, he told me a bit more. He said he had used to run with a pretty eclectic crowd. Magicians tend to draw some odd birds from time to time. He had a buddy that was in some kind of secret society or cult, supposedly, and whatever bullshit that might have been, he had apparently picked up some real power along the way. He wouldn't tell Johnny much, but he could teach him how to make things appear and disappear. Johnny said the guy had told him that you weren't really conjuring new objects or destroying old ones. You were just pulling them or sending them to a different place of existence. He called the nightlands. He never told Johnny more about the place, but he did say there were rules to using that kind of magic. First, if you make something disappear, you need to make it something of similar value that reappears within an hour. Second, if you make something new appear, you need to make it or something else of similar value disappear within an hour. When I asked what he meant by similar value, Johnny shrugged. Best he could tell, it didn't have anything to do with the size of the thing or how much money it was worth. He said you got to feel for what was needed over time, but when in doubt, just keep your mind blank when you were doing the balance and the trick would bring or send something that was appropriate on its own. That's what he called it, doing the balance. He said that you always had to do the balance or it created problems. When I asked what kind of problems, he looked at me for a long time.  Well, a few hours later, your car keys might disappear or can't. Now let's say you make something disappear once or twice without doing the balance. Maybe you find a random shoe that doesn't belong in your house sitting in the middle of your living room or a tree. Or something that looks like a spider mated with a mole rat. These are all real examples I'm giving you from times I decided to test the limits of not doing the balance. It's a bad idea. Okay, got it. He nodded, exactly. Which brings me to my next point. I need your help. Two hours later, we were standing on the stage of the Burnt Rabbit, a industrial music club that had become some kind of neo-goth grotesquery before finally going bankrupt a few months earlier. Unbeknownst to me, when it was still open, the Burnt Rabbit used to host underground magic competitions. Most of it was more shock magic and body horror spectacles, but occasionally you would get a real artist like Johnny to show up as well. Unfortunately, Johnny, who through the smart use of his own magic and diligent doing of the balance, had amassed a small fortune, but had also amassed a large heroin addiction. When he showed up the night of the magic competition with Juliet, his girlfriend assistant of the month in tow. He was high as a kite. But that didn't stop him. He leapt on stage to thunderous applause and screams, going through a series of small tricks with such ferocity and speed that the crowd continued cheering like it was a rock show. This only encouraged him, of course, so he decided to up the ante. Swaying on his feet, he swirled his hands around and then tapped Juliet on the head. She popped out of existence like an overripe soap bubble. The crowd fell deathly silent, and then they began to roar. He turned to face them, his arms raised in triumph. The plan was he would pump the audience up for a few seconds and then bring her back. Instead, as he started to yell out to the people packed into the small club, he distantly felt himself stumble and then fall. When he woke up, it was two days later and he was in a hospital room. He learned that he had almost died of a heroin overdose. Police had asked him a few questions about Juliet, but given that nearly a hundred people had seen him collapse and be put in an ambulance, there was no real suspicion he had anything to do with her disappearance. I asked him if he tried to bring her back and he lowered his eyes. I… No. I didn't.  We'd done it before, see? Twice before I had disappeared her and brought her back a few seconds later, the place she went. She said she could breathe there, but the air was bitterly cold and stale and everything was dark except for lights far away in the distance. The first time she handled it okay, but the second time she'd come back terrified, saying she'd never do it again. I shifted uncomfortably. Did she say why she was so scared? He glanced up at me, his face drawn. She said, she heard things in the dark. She wouldn't say what, but she kept saying, I can hear them in the dark, Johnny. Bad things. His face crumpled. Shit. How could I have left her there? I figured she'd be dead after two days.  His eyes were red-rimmed and fiery as he went on. Well, I'm dealing with them now. I didn't do the balance on this. I can't. I tried sending different things over, but nothing works and I think the magic has sent something over to balance it for me. What do you mean sent something over? He scrubbed his head through his hair. Just what it sounds like. Something has been stalking me the last few weeks. I get glimpses of it sometimes and I don't know what it's waiting for, but I think maybe it's just playing with me. From what little I've seen, it's not something I want to play with. He gestured around at the stage. I came back here the night before I met you and tried to bring her back. Tried to do the balance. It sometimes works better in the same spot if you're trying to bring back or send the same thing, so I thought it was my best shot, but I couldn't get it to work. I don't know if it's because of how much time has passed or what the problem is, but I couldn't pull her back. I was going to ask, why not?  His eyes were stretched wide with fear, you have to help me. We have to try again. I think if we both threw it together, we can pull her back through. He looked across at the darkness of the club to the far end where I could barely make out large double doors jumping inward from some massive impact outside. If not for the chains run through the handles, they would have burst open already. Okay, okay, let's try, I said. He nodded and hurriedly we got into position. Johnny had never showed me how to pull something with another person and I wasn't sure he knew either, but after a couple of false starts, I felt it starting to work. There was a metallic wrenching sound as the doors finally gave way. I glanced up to see a large silhouette framed in the dim light filtering in from the lobby windows. I couldn't see much, but it was enough to know I was giving this five more seconds and then I was gone. I turned back to the task at hand and felt something give our combined efforts finally synchronizing to pull the poor girl back. Her body thudded to the floor like a carcass on a butcher's floor and I felt my gorge rising at the first glimpse of her. I remembered the thing approaching us and looked back up, but it was nowhere to be seen. It seemed like bringing her back had done the trick and I felt a surge of relief mingling with my fear and disgust. Johnny was on his knees beside her, weeping. He reached out as though to cradle her head, but half of it was gone along with a good portion of her left side. It looked like it had been torn away by something large. As for what was left, her flesh was torn and cracked in various spots. Patches of her skin, various shades of light blue veined with bruises and lines of black. I saw something gleaming on the patch of shirt that was left to partially cover her remaining breast and I felt my anger building when I saw what it was. It was a cheap little brass pin that showed a lightning bolt with three stars around it and in the center it said Johnny Quick, Master, Magician.  Johnny said nothing. He just kept crying, his thin hands usually so supernaturally sure and fast, fluttering back and forth over her ruined body like troubled birds looking for a place to light. I wanted to feel sorry for him, but I didn't. I wanted to thank him for what he taught me, but I wasn't sure it was much of a gift. That was all six months ago, I have my own stage show now and I'm doing really well. At first I swore I would never use what Johnny taught me. I told myself it was tainted and far too dangerous, but then I had a really bad set.  So I pulled the sword out of thin air, then I pulled the suit of armor to go with it. I sent it back, got to do the balance, but the roar of that audience had told me what I already suspected. The next night the audience was twice as large and by the end of the week my shows were sold out. Everyone has their addictions, and I found mine, I can't stop using it, and I'm trying to do the balance, but sometimes I'm not sure what that even means. Just because I can use magic doesn't mean I understand it, and just because I try to balance things doesn't mean I really know the price to be paid. I heard last week that Johnny was found outside his condo, his head caved in, and his chest ripped apart. They have no suspects, of course. I keep telling myself that he was self-destructive, that he probably couldn't live with what he had done to that girl, so he brought something over or didn't balance again so he could just die, and maybe that is what happened.  I have to go. There's a knock at the door.


Thanks for coming to this talk, this afternoon. I would like to introduce ourselves. This is the CIG architecture, Kubernetes, intro and update talk. So like, I did want to ask you all, like, what do you think this talk is about? Anyone have an idea what this talk is about? Good. Not in the traditional sense as such. We are not gonna talk about deep into the internals of Kubernetes, but we'll talk about how we take architectural decisions, how the community operates, how we go about doing the different things, which might not be very specific to one area or one special interest group in the community and things like that. This is an intro and an update. So we do this kind of talk to welcome all of you into the community, to take part in the processes that we have and help make Kubernetes better for everyone going forward. So we'll talk about like, how do you make enhancements in the community? How do you add new features? How do you make sure that the old features, you know, like just installing Kubernetes not the end of the story, right? Like you have to have a, you know, upgrade maintenance, everything comes into the picture and then it becomes really hard, like just like any other software that we have. So SIG architecture is a place where we talk about these things and work on practical solutions around how to make sure that we don't break people and how to make sure that people are getting the things that they need from Kubernetes. Hope that helps. Just warning you out of time. So my nickname is Dimms. You can call me Dimms. I'm on GitHub, Twitter. It's the same Dimms everywhere. John. I'm John. Dimms and I are two thirds of the SIG architecture co-chairs. Yeah. John is from Google. I work for AWS currently. So let's take a quick look at the goals of the Kubernetes project itself, right? Like you've seen this before. You've seen how Kubernetes is being used by everybody everywhere. People have called it, you know, the, I think Priyanka called it as a Linux moment of Kubernetes in one of her keynotes. We try to be very flexible, extensible, automatable.  How to use AAML for all the things. So you've seen all those things and that's why you are here in this conference and you want to use Kubernetes and you see the value in Kubernetes. And these are all the things that we think about while we go about our tasks during the release cycle. So we do have a few community values that we adhere to. You know, if you look at the small URL at the bottom of, you have the direct link to what our values are, but, you know, summarizing. We want to be sure that this works for everybody, right? If it just works for Google and AWS, it's not enough. It has to work for everybody in this room. You know, we try to do as much automation as possible. We, not just for the community to work, but also making sure that you all can do your own automation in an easy fashion as well. We want to be more inclusive. So we try really hard to listen to multiple voices. I will give you a call out at the end about some of the things that we are looking for feedback from you all to make our forward looking things. Like for example, there was a talk today on, there was a keynote today on working group for LTS. Where does that happen? That happens here. So, and there's a survey in the morning, there was a call out for that. So we'll talk about that a little bit again today. And we want to keep evolving. If we stagnate, and if we, then, there isn't much fun in it for anybody, right? So, Kubernetes has to evolve, and it has to keep up with the times, just for, you know, think about this week, right? Like what are the new things that people are asking from Kubernetes? ML and AI are new things that were not as much, you know, the year ago or two years ago, but now people do want to run ML and AI workloads on Kubernetes. So then we have to figure out like, how do we translate that to actual things that we need to do as part of our community work, right? So, we have to keep evolving, basically. That's the point we are trying to make. So, it's important to understand the structure of how we work, how we do work in the community. So, I mentioned briefly about special interest groups. Special interest groups are essentially, you know, you can think of like domain experts, like networking, storage, you know, security, scalability, windows, authentication, CLI, right? Those are all like areas where people know what they're doing, like the six CLI, he is writing a CLI, right? Authentication folks are working on authentication and authorization, right? The networking force are deep into the weeds on how things need to work for all the network use cases that you have. But then, how do you tie all of these together? That's where CIGAR architecture comes in. So, if you look from the top, CNCF is the foundation we live in. In under CNCF, there is the Kubernetes project. Kubernetes project is run by the Kubernetes Steering Committee. The Kubernetes Steering Committee essentially delegates the responsibilities and the roles to different special interest groups. Now, for the technical things, they have delegated that to CIGAR architecture. So, essentially, they are telling CIGAR architecture that hey, you are responsible for making sure that all the CIGs are working well with each other. And if there are conflicts between multiple CIGs on something, then you have to step in and help moderate and come to a conclusion and things like that. So, we have a charter for the CIGAR architecture. And that is a charter that the Kubernetes Steering Committee has approved, which gives us the authority over things that we do in the project. Does that help or is that logical? Does that make sense? Okay. So, this is important for you all to know also because if you want to do some work in the community, then you need to figure out like, oh, what kind of a role I'm looking for? What kind of an area is of interest to me? Then it helps you navigate to figure out like, yeah, I think I'll go spend some time in network or storage or runtime, node, things like that. Okay. So, like I said, we have a charter and our charter has these things listed. So, I'll let you read it briefly and digest it a little bit and I'll walk you through a few of the things that are here. Now, okay. So, let's take the first thing. It says conformance test definitions. What does it mean? Right? So, all of you want to use Kubernetes. All of you have different vendors or you are rolling your own Kubernetes. How do you make sure that two clusters of Kubernetes, maybe from one vendor to another vendor or a managed cloud provider or self-deployed Kubernetes cluster, you could be using cubes, mini-cube, you can be using cops, you can be using something else, K3S, K0S. How do you make sure that your application still work on all of them, right? You see the problem there? Because if everybody starts making their own changes, then your applications are not going to work. So, the way we enforce that is using conformance tests. So, in conformance tests, what we end up doing is, here is an API for Kubernetes. Here are the things that must work, exactly the way we have defined it, across everyone, right? So, those are the conformance tests that we write, which we then use a conformance program where all the vendors, if they want to use Kubernetes in their name, for example, I'm from AWS. So, the AWS Kubernetes managed service is called EKS. And same thing for Google, there is a GKE. So, if either one of us wants to use Kubernetes in the name, we have to pass the conformance test. And we have to publish the results publicly, and that must be replicable by other people. So, that is the bar for using Kubernetes in your name and in your product, so that any customer can be sure that the Kubernetes that you get is something that you expect. Doesn't make sense? So, similar to that, we help out with design principles, deprecation policy, and lately, we've been spending a lot more time on production readiness review, which John will talk about in a little bit. And I did hint about how do you make enhancements? We do have an enhancement process, right? Like, so, it's not enough to just throw code over the wall, right? Say you're interested in something, you're working, you have like a 10X programmer who can like write a bunch of code and like, okay, the new feature we want this in our product, guy goes right and throws out on the wall, what do you do with it? We don't know what to do with it. We don't know you from anybody else, right? How, what's gonna happen if there is a bug in the code that you gave us, right? So, we have to know deep into the details of like, why are you doing this? How are you doing this? What kind of things did you think about? Is this the only proposal? Is there an alternating proposal? What is the effect of this new feature in production? How do you track logs, metrics, all those other things that you need for your production clusters? We ask those questions to the people who are working with us. So, that is part of the CAT process. So, we talked briefly about some of these things. The test review and management is under the purview of SIG architecture. We have Jordan here who helps with API reviews. API reviews are very important for us because imagine, you know, the APIs keep changing and they break, like you code to an API and then the API is changed under your feet and then the thing that you wrote is not gonna work, right? So, there is a natural progression on how to evolve the APIs that we have over a period of time. And from our experience, we have written down how exactly you need to think about this. I'll give you a simple example, right? Imagine right at the beginning, Kubernetes had only one IP address for a pod, right? And then they wanted two IP addresses or an IPv6, right? So, the API change. So, the CLI changes, the API changes and how do you make sure that the evolution of the APIs are backward compatible and, you know, forward proof, those kinds of things we end up doing in the API review process. We talked about the caps. So, this is a process where it's a living document. We write it down. We keep updating it as we go through the different stages. There is a process of alpha, beta and GA that we go through to make sure that, you know, existing code is not broken. So, we add feature flags and things like that. We make sure that when we are deprecating things, like one of the things that you might have heard in the last year or so is like, hey, in 1.24, we deprecated, removed Dockersham. So, you can't use Dockersham anymore. So, that was, okay, I see one person smiling. So, we literally plastered that information across every channel that we have, right? Like, that it is a Slack channel or a website or, you know, anywhere you go, you would not miss that fact that we were deprecating. We don't do that for everything, right? But that was an extreme case where we had to do it because we know that it would affect people who are upgrading from older versions and we wanted to make sure that they see it before. They have to, and they can plan for it ahead of time. So, deprecation process is very important. Version skew is very important because you have to upgrade and say if the upgrade didn't work, then you should have some choices around what exactly you can downgrade or like during the upgrade process, if you have a lot of components, then, you know, how? You might not be able to do all of them at the same time, so like, what is the skew that will work between components in a version range, right? So, what kind of debates we will end up having in Sikh architecture? So, when there are technical leads and chairs and owners of different areas, when they have disagreements and they're not sure they might be trade-offs, we end up moderating those discussions and making sure that we are taking the right decisions and then we refer back to our values, refer back to our charter and figure out like, okay, let's do, in the end of the day, we have to pick a way to do something. There is gonna be consequences. How much consequences? Who pays the price? What do we need to do? When do we need to do? How much comms do we need to put out? All those things we end up talking about in Sikh architecture. We have a mailing list for sure. We do try to write a lot of these things down and we, when in doubt, we write a policy about something or the other, right? But then not everything is written down. Things keep changing in the world, right? Like, a while ago, we didn't have a policy around like, when do we update Golang versions or do we go around changing the Golang versions in older versions of the releases that we make? So we started writing one because it started bothering us more, especially with the CVs that are coming out in Golang and elsewhere. We're like, okay, fine, we need to do this and we ended up writing those things down. One of these days, people will come and say, hey, I have this exciting new architecture. Can I add this to Kubernetes? Right, like, yeah, you're welcome, but here are the steps. Like, you know, you have to start here and make sure it builds fine and then you have to go through these set of tests and you have to go through those test set of tests. Then we might think about making a release where your architecture is supported, right? Like, or Illumos, right? Different operating systems that we don't currently support. And we did have to make a call on saying, okay, Windows with ARM, not ARM, the ARM32, sorry, we're not doing that anymore. So we have to make those kinds of decisions because keeping these things up is hard too, right? Like, if you don't have a CI, what is the point in supporting an architecture or an operating system? So that's a call that we need to make. So that is the kind of decisions and discussions that happen in CIG architecture. Okay? Do you want to go from there? Yeah, I can go, yeah. So to get all of this done, generally the structure within Kubernetes Project overall is you have the CIGs, but then you have, underneath the CIGs, you have sub-projects that are sort of narrower scope. So within CIG architecture, to get all of each of these things that DIMMS has been talking about falls into a different sub-project as you see here. So some of these, he's covered pretty well already, but I think we'll drill into a few of them as we go. API review, DIMMS mentioned. This is, all of this comes down to what are the processes we use to control the flow of features in the Kubernetes? Because Kubernetes, every feature adds risk, every feature adds capability, and we need to manage the risk and capability trade-off. So API review is about consistency among the APIs. So when you go to a storage API versus a network API versus a compute API, they have the same flavor, right? And how those are maintained. We'd love to, if you're interested in this area, get involved, jump into this sub-project. It's a really, actually this is one of the coolest things you can do in Kubernetes. It does take quite a bit of depth and understanding of the system and of Go, but it's kind of like a, maybe a pinnacle of achievement for people in the community to get to API review, because you end up doing a lot of design review on new features as well. The other sub-project, in other sub-projects, is code organization. So here you're thinking about the dependencies and dependency management. Things like when Go is upgraded, but also things like, we have hundreds of dependencies. How do you manage those as they're, how do we reduce the dependencies as much as possible and how do you manage them as they change? Enhancements process, this is the overall organizational process to control that feature flow.  Excuse my language, but so we control things in the way that Dimms was talking about earlier. Conformance testing, another sub-project, so all of these things are done, but basically what happened is that Kubernetes, as it grew, conformance came in a little bit later.  So over the last several years, the CNCF has been kind of funding a group of engineers actually to build out the conformance test suite and we are at like 99.6% coverage or something, almost there of the GAAPIs. So if we've got folks from IEI here, thank you very much, it's been awesome. And we're super close, but that's really critical for that user workload portability, which is of course key to Kubernetes' story. Little more on production readiness review, so this is another part of that feature flow process. So we have how many contributors? 10,000, 15,000, like enormous number of contributors. One of the, you know, and everybody's got ideas. So we have to have processes to get that flow, but not only that, as you mature those ideas, you know, when they first come in, you come up with this crazy idea, we need you to come into it at an alpha state. And so what does alpha mean? Well, production readiness reviews kind of help define what the real hard constraints are and what the real hard constraints of each of these stages means. Pretty much in alpha, what we look for in production readiness review is you can turn it off or on with a feature gate.  And then if you turn it on yet again, you'll still be okay, because there are lots of times when, you know, maybe you upgrade and then you turn it on again and all of a sudden it's broken and it causes some cataclysm. So that's kind of the goal at alpha, at beta it ramps up where we want metrics, you can see people can actually monitor it, they can tell that it's working the way it's expected, and of course at GA it's even further. So this is a process by which each cap, each enhancement proposal is reviewed at design time and to ensure that people are thinking through these sorts of questions. Basically, the point of view is, I have to run 50,000 clusters, how can I tell whether something is working or not? All right, we have 10 minutes left and we wanna have time for questions. Another big area of focus for SIG architecture is helping to guide and define, I mean really it's the other SIG, SIG architecture itself doesn't actually write a lot of code or own a lot of code, but what we do is help with the other SIGs and help coordinate them and guide them in what principles we should use for extensibility within Kubernetes. So that's part of that overall design principles concept. So over the last several years, there's been a big focus on doing less entry upstream, meaning as part of core Kubernetes and doing more using these extension points that the community has built. And so you have comment on that? This is a key thing that we do because if you look at the CNCF landscape and you can see so many projects, guess what, all of them have some sort of story with Kubernetes, they extend Kubernetes in some ways, they have a Kubernetes story, they live within Kubernetes or run on top of Kubernetes, they use all the extension mechanisms that we use and that is because that is how we design Kubernetes. Right, yeah. You can read this, lots and lots of different ways to extend Kubernetes and you're probably familiar with many, many of them. So where is Kubernetes going in the future? I think that we're gonna continue with extension points as we know we've already built out most of conformance and now there's a policy where you don't go to GA unless you have conformance tests so we maintain conformance. And I think something that's not on here is what Dim's mentioned earlier is work with relation to AI ML workloads. I thought you said something on LTS. Yeah, yeah, how do you participate? Come to the meetings, we are easy to find, join Kubernetes lag and we have channels out there that we really want your opinion, we want your use cases, we want your pain points, we want what you wish for from Kubernetes for sure and one call out that we definitely have for you today right now if you can do is tell us where you are in your journey of Kubernetes. What sorts of Kubernetes clusters that you're running right now and what kind of pains points that you've seen when you are upgrading Kubernetes and tell us like right now we have a policy, our policy is like any release will be supported by the community for a year, right? And if you have clusters that are older than a year then you're out of options, at least from us. And then you depend on your vendor or you depend on somebody else, especially with all the security stuff coming down the pipe and you've seen all those vulnerabilities and like every week there is something new which is scary and so don't run clusters with unsupported Kubernetes, you should update to new ones and you tell us what kind of pain points that you're seeing when you're doing that and please go through the survey and tell us, so we are collecting the information so that then we can figure out like how can we support you in one way or another? We can't promise exactly what we will do but the data that we collect from you is gonna be helpful in a lot of decisions that we are gonna make and the better data we have, the more data we have, the better decisions we'll be able to make. Yeah, so exactly, so this is your easiest opportunity to influence the long-term support initiative within Kubernetes. Of course it is an open source community and it's a very open friendly community and so if you have a lot of concern in this area, please join the working group, Jordan over there in the back, Jordan here, he's a good person to talk to about that if you want to, but that's one of the major initiatives going on. That's what we have, but we have six minutes for questions. If you have, what bothered you about Kubernetes? Like if you have a Kubernetes story, Kubernetes failure story, go ahead, please. Yeah, I have a question about it. Yeah. You have the microphone. Yeah, there is a walk-in mic. You can queue up too if you have an additional question, you can join. Check, check. I have a question about security, so like practically nowhere throughout the presentation there was like much about security, so is it something you actively think about as an architecture group? Yes, so we do have a Kubernetes security response committee, so and they do the pre-embargo and those kinds of things. We have a vulnerability disclosure process. We've written things down, saying like when you see something that you think it's a security issue, here are the steps that you go through and report things to us, and we have a program where we have a set of folks that who look at the incoming queue and they talk to different vendors, different people, different people doing security, and then figure out what is a plan on how to address this, come up with an embargo date, come up with a set of patches. We do this all the time. We are really good at this right now in the CVE process. Thank you. I was actually talking not about vulnerability per se, but more about like the general architecture, like we have network policies. Yeah, so. But to do that, you need to collect them. Absolutely, so we've done several of those things in the past. We have a security which helps with these things. We have a security audit that CNCF pays for every year, so we are expanding slowly what it covers, and every year we find less and less of things that we need to fix. So yes, it is a constant ongoing process. We have a SIG auth and we have a SIG security and we have the Kubernetes Response Committee. We have the audit, so believe me, between all the vendors poking at things plus all the community infrastructure that we have, I can say in good faith that we are trying to be extremely careful about what we are giving you so that your stuff is better off. Yeah, I think the way I would put it is, the people that tend to be involved in SIG architecture have been around a while and so have a viewpoint that will take security into consideration, but the hard details of that fall into the other SIGs. So you've got SIG security, which is really the security expertise, but you've got SIG auth, which is gonna have things around the authentication and authorization, and then you've got even within SIG node, there's so many layers to security. It doesn't fall just at the architectural layer, but you've got privilege mode on the pods versus not. Those sort of things fall into the individual SIGs. Right now we are running CTFs somewhere in this conference center. What's the CTF? CTF, capture the flag. So essentially they'll give you a set of instructions for you to go in, look into a cluster, and you have to go find things, break into things and find things, and then basically we close the loopholes. Thank you. Any other questions? Any Kubernetes failure stories? We love those. I don't know if you heard the story from Datadog this morning in the keynote. Yeah, I see one nod at least on that side. That was a very interesting one. It was about unattended upgrades, bringing down their entire production system. I didn't have anything to do with Kubernetes per se, but it was a really good story nevertheless. So we are constantly looking out for how we are using Kubernetes, what are you using it for, what are the pain points that you're seeing and facing, and that's how we learn, right? And if we learn, then we can apply to the next set of things that we ship. So that's why we need your help, okay? All right. Thanks a lot everyone.


All right. Good morning. It is Thursday and this is House General Housing Military Affairs. And we are here this morning at H-232. We have an introduction to this bill by Representative Sims of Craftsbury several weeks ago. And I wanted to bring David Hall in to do a walk through of it as preparation for hearing witnesses next week on this bill. And if you've looked at it, you'll know that the bill proposes to promote land and home ownership and economic opportunity for Vermonters who historically suffered discrimination or unequal access to benefits and services, including black, indigenous and people of color, and to prepare for climate change, which is a theme of bills that we have several bills with the same themes in our committee. So I wanted to bring David in. David, welcome back. And now for something completely different. Thank you again for your work on 157. I know it's not done for you, but if you could take us through H-232, that would be great. And then after David's walk through at 11, we have representatives from VHCB coming in because this does discuss elements of their mission statement in statute as well as the makeup of their board. So David, the microphone is yours. Thank you. Good morning, Mr. Chair and committee. Long time no see. I hope you guys have been well since we were last together, been a while. I can share my screen if you want and take you through this. Is everybody okay with that? Yes. Yes, please. All right. So H-232, David Hall Legislative Council, H-232 is an act relating to promoting land and home ownership and economic opportunity. I will say to ground you in sort of where we are in the world of Vermont statutes, this really deals with VHCB, the Vermont Housing Conservation Board, and makes changes to how it allocates its funding, the composition of its board, some of its practices and considerations when it's fulfilling its mission. So I'm glad to hear you'll have them coming in to talk about what they do and who they are because I think you'll need to understand clearly what the status quo is and then how this bill would affect that and the extent to which it would affect that. So there are findings in purpose in section one. Before I even look at the words, let me sort of frame issues around state action and the allocation of benefits and services to citizens. And I want to bring this up because I know you're looking at a handful of bills that propose to do things that in some cases focus on communities that have suffered discrimination or unequal access to benefits. Sometimes that is also couched in terms of racial identification. And it's a thorny area of public policy and the law because like most things, it runs along a spectrum, right? Where there are times when race matters or gender matters or gender identity or any of those various classes, disability status, citizenship status. I mean, we have laws at the federal and state level that protect people on those bases. For instance, Public Accommodations Act or fair housing laws, those types of things are protective against discrimination on those bases. On the other end of the spectrum are not protections against negatives, but rather affirmative practices to promote advancement or the prosperity of populations on a certain basis. And when you get to the very far end of that spectrum and there is a line where you cross over into setting aside requiring benefits specifically on the basis of race or gender or similar factors where you start to run into the other side of equal protection problems. So equal protection, of course, into the federal constitution, but also we have different manifestations of it in our Vermont Constitution. But the basic premises that for the most part, 99.9% of the time government action should be blind to race, gender, other things. There are times when it matters, there are times when it's permissible. But when you again, when you cross a line over into, we're only going to give this certain benefit to this class of people based on race or gender. Most of the time, you are looking at a potential equal protection problem and the state in that case, state action requires a compelling government interest that is narrowly tailored to address a specific problem. And the burden is on the state to demonstrate why that particular solution addresses that particular problem. And it's basically the only way you can do it. So this bill, I'm not telling you that because this bill specifically raises any specific equal protection concerns at this point the way that it's written, I don't think that it does. But I am telling you this because in the context of this discussion about the BIPOC community or other classes where we're going to start calling out classes of Vermonters for benefits and services, there is a line that you want to be mindful of. And the other reason I raise it now at this point in our discussion is because as I said, you know, if there is a legal challenge, again, the state bears the burden of demonstrating why it is acting and the way that it is acting is substantiated. And findings and purpose can assist in that process, you know, to the extent committees take testimony and make findings and build a record to support the action that they're taking and can draw a line from findings to action, then that obviously serves to substantiate state action. Ultimately, if there is a legal challenge, any laws that you guys pass and there's a constitutional claim, it's up to a court to decide whether or not what you've done is permissible. And, you know, it will be up to the Attorney General's office in all likelihood to argue the state's case. And it will have to build its own record, make its own claim. But findings that you include in bills sometimes can serve to bolster the state's position because it's the, you know, it's the basis of your action. So that's a little bit broader than this bill I recognize, but in the context of a series of bills and also of proposals that are percolating this session, I wanted to give you that background. So with that data, I appreciate, yeah, no, I appreciate that because I think that this, and we'll need to hear it again and again, is that there is a line here that we have to be mindful of. And I appreciate you taking the time to explain it. Again, our committee doesn't often deal with findings like this, but the findings that are here in this bill and in 273 are pretty extensive. And what I'm hearing from you is that this is, that they lay a foundation for, and if we were to move forward, they lay a foundation for to inform people in the future of what our intent is and why we chose to work this way if we choose to move this forward. Yes. Let me add one, I'm sorry, did you- No, I was about to go to Representative Colacky, but go ahead please. Well, let me just finish this prologue by saying that the states, the states have police powers, which is a very, very broad authority given by the people to promote and protect the public health, safety, welfare, morals, and well-being society. And those powers, that power is limited only by the constitution of that state, but also the federal constitution. So that is the tension that we always face when the legislature acts. The legislature can do, can adopt any law it wants to, that it believes promotes the public welfare. And then if there is a check on that, it is somebody challenging the constitutionality of that law grounded either in the state's constitution or some provisions, some specific provision of the federal constitution. So again, the Equal Protection Clause is really, or the federal constitution is really the sort of the check on these types of issues. But I want to stress that the state does have very broad power to promote the general welfare and the actions that you take are presumptively constitutional and remain so until a court determines otherwise. I'll stop there. Okay, a couple questions. Representative Colacky in the trial. Thank you. And thank you, David. And welcome back, buddy. Yesterday, when we were listening to S39, which is the Senate bill, and there was a section taken out about the, let me, for the home ownership revolving loan fund from that bill. And there was a set aside for 25% for the BIPOC community. And as I understood, the administration was kind of walking back from that 25% set aside, saying that they got a lot of pushback about the constitutionality of that, to put it like that. So is that different than this kind of direction? Is this a constitutional issue that will be tested in the current bill, not yesterday's bill? Sure. So I would say that that provision of that bill is sort of the bright line. I mean, that is a reservation of a set amount of benefit for a specific population based on race, which is that if you're going to have a problem or a potential for a successful challenge, then that probably represents a clear, I'm not gonna, I can't tell you whether it's constitutional or not, but I'm saying that's the kind of framework that would be potentially problematic. I know we haven't jumped into this bill yet specifically, but it does not go that far. It doesn't specifically reserve anything for anybody. It, you know, there's a difference between demarcating funds specifically based on race. And by contrast, considering things in the grand scheme of how you're going to implement programs, considering factors like has this community historically not received as much benefit? Should we take that into consideration when we're allocating funds? Great. Appreciate that. Thanks. Sure. Representative Trunna. Yes, I was going exactly where Representative Kalaki just went. So my question is answered. Thank you. So let me, let me say too, in that context that this, this bill in contrast to the section of the bill yesterday you referenced, this bill doesn't always speak in terms of race. You know, sometimes it talks about communities that have suffered discrimination or unequal access to benefits on various bases. And, you know, that's a tension as well. Does it dilute what you're trying to accomplish by broadening the scope of the assistance? But think about it, you know, rather than saying we're going to give benefits specifically based on somebody's race, it's, which could be problematic, you can broaden it and say, you know, income status or, you know, proficiency with the English language or things like that, things that aren't race specific, but are maybe socioeconomic specific or demographic specific that have overlaps with racial or gender or immigration categories, but aren't specific in those ways. Those are possible approaches. And this bill does that a little bit you saw in the statement of purpose. But at any rate, I think I'll stop there and just we can quickly walk through this. So you'll see that this bill looks longer than it is. There's a lot of unchanged statutory material in it. So the findings here, there's only four in this bill that equal opportunity foundational to democracy, but it's not, you know, accessible to everybody. Under A2, Vermont lands are the historic and current territories of the Western Avanaki people's stewardship of these lands. It was removed from the Avanakis, Europeans made Vermont a state in 1793.  And for the state has a responsibility to recognize and work to redress inequities and its policies and programs that serve as barriers to equal opportunity. So based on those findings, the purposes of this act are to support VHCB and expanding pathways and opportunities for Vermonters who have historically suffered discrimination or unequal access to benefits and services, including BIPOC Vermonters, to access land and home ownership, support the education and capacity of other organizations seeking to do the same and to enhance the board's work in land use planning and conservation to address climate change. So it's, you know, it's interesting that this bill has these dual purposes of sort of addressing racial or other wealth disparities among Vermonters, but also climate change. I find that I point that out because, you know, VHCB has itself has this dual purpose of preserving open space, natural space, conserving land for recreation and other purposes, but also affordable housing. So it's okay for things to, you know, appear juxtaposed in that way. Funny that it's in the context of VHCB. So the next series of sections are in, again, the title 10, the chapter dealing with VHCB. So you've created this organization and this trust fund and statute. You've designated it as one of the primary entities for managing funds for housing and also for conservation. And so these definitions relate to the board and to the conservation trust fund, which are established and statute. You'll see the eligible activity. So what does it do? It's any activity that will carry out either or both of the dual purposes of creating affordable housing and conserving and protecting important Vermont lands, including activities that will encourage or assist. We have a, this is the housing component, preservation, rehabilitation or development of residential dwelling units that are affordable. So right now, either to lower income Vermonters to if it's owner-occupied housing for Vermonters whose income is less than or equal to 120% of AMI based on statistics. And then this new addition on page four, again, this is under the affordable housing category. Three, Vermonters who have historically suffered discrimination or unequal access to benefits and services, including black indigenous and people of color. So the way this is constructed, remember, we're talking about the eligible activities of VHCB and we're saying in 3A that preserving, rehabilitating and developing affordable housing is one of the eligible activities that they do. And affordable means to lower income Vermonters, the owner-occupied specific or to now as proposed Vermonters who have suffered discrimination. So they have other eligible activities as well that are all in existing law, retention of ag land, wildlife habitat, historic preservation, outdoor recreation, multi-use lands, surface waters, et cetera. So that is the change there in the eligible activity. And it's talking about, you know, making housing affordable to these populations that have suffered discrimination. Lower income, by the way, is a defined term there. And it's equal or below AMI. So that's it for the definitions that the change in 311, this is where VHCB is actually established. The strike on 17 and 18 is just a drafting thing. So we have next though, it's starting at the bottom of five, moving into six. It is the composition of the board itself. And I want to note this is an error. This should be 12 based on the proposal that you have. I'm sorry that we missed that. But right now, so the board has, you know, this membership and the changes you'll see. We have secretary of agriculture. It proposes to remove the secretary of human services, secretary of ANR, the executive director of VHFA. The addition here and for what would be for would be to add two public members appointed by the executive director of racial equity with the advice and consent of the Senate, who are residents of this state, and are representatives of non-white Vermonters or from Native American Indian tribes recognized by the state, pursuant to one VSA chapter 23. This is composition of a board that does certain activities. This is not the kind of, you know, race based benefit allocation that would be potentially problematic. So I don't, I think this is just a policy choice. Who are you putting on the board? Who do they represent? What does it reflect in its operations? So in five here, going down from three to two public members appointed by the governor, residents of the state, experienced in affordable housing and conserving land or recreational lands or in racial and social equity policy. So those are, those are ores there. So these two public members appointed by the governor are experienced in one or more of these things. It doesn't have to be all of them. And you've got options. You've got affordable housing, ag forest land, historic properties, natural areas, rec lands, or racial and social equity policy. So obviously those things are not necessarily going to all be represented by these two members. And even though you're adding in the possibility of experience in racial and social equity policy, it doesn't necessarily mean that that is the box that gets checked. And you'll see on lines 15 through 17, a little more specific here. One of the governor's appointees has to be a representative lower income for monitors and one has to be a farmer or a forester as defined. So slight change there. In six, a public member, this would be appointed by the speaker, the new language would modify slightly to say with expertise and professional experience in community planning and smart growth principles as defined in 24 VSA 2791. So that would make the House appointee not so much at large anymore, but a person with specific expertise and experience in community planning and smart growth. On page seven here, subdivision seven unchanged. This is the public member from the Senate. No comparable modification there to the House member in subdivision eight, increasing from two to three public members that are jointly appointed by the speaker and the pro 10. So a just a drafting thing substance of change and be so one member from the nonprofit conservation organization whose activities are eligible under subdivision 303 of this title, who has expertise and professional experience in climate change, such as climate mitigation, climate resilience or improvements in biodiversity is not an employee or member of the board of those organizations. So adding a little more shape to one of the joint members requiring specific expertise and experience and climate change. So that's it for the board. And now in section four, the allocation system, here's where in statute we really are putting shape around how the board administers its funds, right. And you'll see existing law and a when the ACB is allocating funds, it's supposed to give priority to projects that combine the dual goals of affordable housing and land conservation. And it says you'll see on the top of page eight that the board shall also consider factors not limited to these factors, but this is the list of the things the VHCB should think about when it's considering allocating its funding. So one, this need to maintain balance between the dual goals of housing and conservation. Two, timely response unpredictable circumstances, three level of funding by private or public sources in the activity. So are there financial partners, etc. For sustainability of the project in the future. Five, not displacing lower income Vermonters. Six, long term effect of a proposal on affordable housing. Seven, the geographic distribution of funds. And then eight, this new piece would add expanding access to land and home ownership to Vermonters who have historically suffered discrimination or unequal access to benefits and services including black indigenous and people of color. So again, I'll pause here and say, this is the list of factors and it's not exhaustive, but it is seven and would be eight things the board should consider when it's looking at how it's going to allocate its resources. Adding in number eight here would be one of those things it thinks about how can we expand does this project expand access to land and home ownership for Vermonters who have suffered discrimination historically. And again, this is not a mandate. This is not VHCB allocate 25% of your funds every year based on race. It's not that construct. It's this is one of many things to think about. And I think, you know, this is the kind of thing that is along the spectrum and probably not problematic from constitutional perspective. Just to give you sort of a check there. The next piece on page nine, this is an entirely new section. Chair, could I could I ask David a question before we move on? Sure, David, okay. Yeah, yeah, please. David, in this this list of kind of principles for the allocation. Eight is underlined. Is that the new principle or do these other ones currently exist for VHCB in statute? That's right. The one through seven are all current law. They are unchanged. No strike no underlines. And then eight, the underlying language is the proposal of a new factor. Okay, terrific. Thank you. Sure. Page nine, section five, conservation easements and access. So again, a new section of law, the board shall include an easements it obtains pursuant to chapter 155 of this title for projects that are owned by a nonprofit organization municipality or the state of Vermont. And for other lands as the board finds appropriate, one or more provisions that allow for pedestrian access to the conserved land by members of Vermont recognized tribes to gather for non-commercial use medicines, natural foods and ceremony on natural materials, not including standing timber. So there's there's quite a bit to unpack there. You know, the reference to chapter 155 of title 10, that chapter deals with how the state obtains and manages easements to properties. And particularly when the state provides funding for the conservation of land. So whether that's through a partner like the land trust or the or whether the the land is funded, the acquisition or development of land, it's funded through VHCB dollars. And then the VHCB is a condition of its funding can require an easement that has various, you know, requirements attached to it often negotiated by the parties, some of it governed by statute. But here the statute would actually say that the board shall include in those easements, if they're owned by nonprofits, municipalities or the state, and possibly for other lands, which would be privately held, that shall include an access easement for these Vermont recognized tribes for these purposes. So that's mandatory, you know, it's not a may include, it's a shall include in this context. The last section, section six has the deal with VHCB annual report to the executive branch and to committees of jurisdiction in the legislature. And it adds a new component of that annual report subdivision five here. Identification and evaluation of structural barriers that are contributing to racial, ethnic and economic disparities in housing, home ownership, and access to publicly supported open spaces. Actions the board is taking to remove these barriers and increase equity and access to board supported programs and metrics to monitor progress in removing these disparities. So that's an annual that would be part of the annual report from VHCB again to the executive and legislative branches. This would all take effect on passage. Thank you, Chair Stevens. I'm just curious. I'm reading into it in that second line of this last bit that that would include any of these easements that had been determined by the prior section. That would be something that had to be reported within that? You know, presumably, I guess it might, I don't know that it's required here. I mean, this is structural barriers that are contributing to the problem. And then what are we doing about it? So if, you know, to the extent they do obtain new easements that and those easements do provide for access, I suppose that easement is a response to a structural barrier and would be included, presumably, but it's not specific. So if it weren't included, it wouldn't be critiqued as being an error? I don't know the answer to that. I think it's a matter of communication. And then if this easement was being created for the purposes as stated, it would be important that they be public and known. So I just am concerned that there wouldn't be a tool that ensured that. But we're going to walk through. So I'm sorry, I think I think before my chair tells me, I think I'm stepping beyond what we're trying to do here. It's hard to tamp down people's curiosity. Further questions for David right now? Representative Kalaki or for conversation doesn't have to be for David specifically. Representative Kalaki. Well, I think I'm understanding the intent of it, but I'm interested how in the framing of this, people with disabilities are completely left out of this. And so I guess we'll have to hear from the agency how they track who actually they've helped and who's been excluded or with that, because we have an economic issue, which is important. We have the BIPOC thing, which is important. And I just don't know if we look at who's been left out in our state, systemically, if it can be this narrow cast to be appropriate. And so I guess it's not a question of you, David, it's a question for 11 o'clock when they come in, we can talk about who is served by this agency and who's missing for us to then look at kind of setting this framework up. Or I don't know, David, do you have any response to that or? I don't because those are, you know, I mean, the great question, I think it's a good one for you, VACB. I'll only comment that from, you know, from my side, working for you all, wanting to make sure you get to where you want to go. I guess I would encourage everybody to whatever bills you pursue or policy language you pursue, I think it's important to be consistent in the terminology that you use. It's important to be intentional in the types of benefits or services or information you want and for what basis. And when you think about communities that you want to help or identify or target or whatever it is, that, you know, if there's a, first of all, use the same language for the same communities and then be, again, thoughtful and intentional about who it is that you want to be included or not so that, you know, if there are some places in a bill where you just want certain benefits to flow one direction or to think about one population or not, you know, from a drafting and policy perspective, it seems to me that you want to be very consistent about, you know, using the same terms and benefiting all of the same groups, unless there is a reason not to. You don't want to inadvertently have one population here and one population there and not really, not really a reason for it other than just a fault of language. That's very helpful. Thanks. Thank you, Chair Stevens. This is, I think, more appropriate for this level of what we're looking at. I would just ask if David could maybe do a little bit of a screen share and a tutorial maybe on the statute as it exists and where it would be affecting this. It was a little bit of a hiccup that we got caught on the floor with recently where we hadn't done that piece of homework and I think that it could be helpful. I tried to do the search on the one referenced with just that it was in this title and a little hard to kind of discern a clear link and I think that's something that can sometimes help us understand how we're changing what already exists. I don't think I follow what you're asking for. Well, at section five, the first sentence is pursuant to chapter 155 of this title and so chapter 155 is pretty big. It has a lot of sections and so just maybe as a committee getting a quick run through of what that chapter is so we'd see the link and maybe it's because I'm new to the committee and you all are just totally into it because you've been doing this piece of work but just looking at the actual legislative existing language link could be helpful. This one's a little more complicated than some are but you're specifically asking about 10 VSA chapter 155 and what isn't included in that? That's the example I'm using. Yes, we often in these bills as we look at them are what we pretty much always are affecting standing language and so if we could see what the standing language is rather than just what we're doing to it when we cite a piece of our statute and so this is my example of where we cite a piece of the statute and if you could just give us a real quick little link to it or look at. So, Chad, do you want me to pull that chapter up on the screen right now? So, Representative Murphy, what you're asking for is what is the existing statutory language that establishes this board for VHCB? No, I'm sorry I'm being so confusing. It's just, I'm thinking of a floor question that was asked on a totally different bill about whether we looked at the statute that was being cited and we kind of all went because as a committee, I'm not sure we could pull up meeting recording that showed us doing that. I think several of us have and did but that's different from having a committee position on it so I'm just thinking that when we reference as we do a walk through the pieces of statute whether we could have a link to it and I'm sorry that this one's so complicated that I don't know that we want to spend the time on it right now looking down through that whole piece but individually we certainly could. Yeah, let's not go down that path quite yet because I think we're going to, again, when we hear from VHCB in general, I don't know, let's just leave it a little bit higher altitude for right now and but market because, you know, you're right, it details a detail and so let's just mark it for reference. All right, anything else right now for David? No, I think David, you know, what I'm, I appreciate you the way that you open this up because this, I have a feeling that we'll have a similar conversation as I think what you're opening comments on this bill also apply to is H273 when we do a walkthrough of that bill as well because it's about crafting because the opening findings and intent in that bill are much longer there's a lot more history involved with that but it does point out the, as you mentioned, the fine line, a fine line or a line between what we're able to do without just making something unconstitutional and so the problem solving for us is how do you provide the services that the intent is, you know, where the intent is clear but does not become unconstitutional so if I heard you correctly. All right, well without any further questions for David and committee, I think what we'll do is we'll take a break now till 11 and come back for VHCB.