We're looking at the different performance metrics that are common for analyzing communication systems and computer networks, at least a selection of many performance metrics. Some of the common ones we'll see through this course. Last week on our lecture on Wednesday we mentioned these three, bandwidth, data rate and throughput. We didn't say much about bandwidth. Our next topic we'll define bandwidth in more depth. It's related to the set of frequencies that a channel or a communications link allows to pass through that. So we'll look at, well, what does that mean and how that impacts on other metrics in more detailed next topic. Then we gave a couple of examples of data rate and throughput. Where data rate is the, think of it as the capacity of our communications link. The number of bits that we can send through that link per second, a link, we can also talk about data rate of a set of links. It's normally a characteristic of the transmitting device, the receiving device and the link, the medium. For example, when I connect, last week I connected my two laptops together via a LAN cable and I had a data rate of 100 megabits per second. So I could send 100 million bits per second out of my computer across that link. And with that wired LAN, the other computer, the receiver would receive 100 million bits per second if I was sending it that speed. So that's the data rate, the number of bits per second that can be transmitted across a link. But when we're sending those bits, in fact from the user's perspective, we may be sending 100 million bits per second, but some of those bits may be carrying information other than data. And we saw that most protocols attach a header to the start of the data. So that header information from the user's perspective, although it's necessary for the protocol to work, it's an overhead from the user's perspective. So the user's data is what's important. The throughput is a measure of the rate at which the user data is successfully delivered to the destination. So if everything gets delivered to the destination, if our data rate is 100 megabits per second, but we have a 20% overhead, then our throughput would be 80 megabits per second. 20% overhead, 80% of real data delivered. It gets more complex than that. After we look at some real protocols through this course, we'll see the throughput is more complex than just looking at overhead because sometimes data doesn't get successfully delivered. It gets sent but not delivered, and that impacts on throughput or reduces throughput. So we did a few calculations or examples of them. What we want to finish on is delay, not packet delay variation, just delay to keep it simple. The time it takes to get data from source to destination. Think of the data as, say, a single message. I want to get a single message, a packet, from one computer to another. From when I've got that message to be sent, I start transmitting. It's sent across the link, and it's received by the destination computer. I want to know how long it takes to do that, from sending to receiving. It takes us a second. So we measure in seconds, not bits per second here, this is time, a measure of time. There are four main components that contribute to the total delay. So we'll break it into four parts, and we'll look at them separately. We have transmission delay, propagation delay, processing delay, and queuing delay. So we think when we send our one packet from one computer to another, there may be different factors that cause a delay in that transmission, and we've broken into four different components here. Transmission delay is the time to think of the time to transmit the data, that one message, out of my computer. So it depends upon the amount of data I want to send, the number of bits, and it depends upon the speed at which I can send, the data rate. So if my packet is 100 bits, and I have a data rate of 10 kilobits per second, I can calculate the transmission delay, the 100 bits divided by the 10,000 bits per second. 10 milliseconds in that case. We'll do some calculations soon. So transmission delay, the time to transmit the data onto the link. Think of it as from the source computer, the time to get it out of the computer from the transmitting device onto the link. Although I've mentioned it once or twice, we haven't gone into the details, all of the transmissions that we produce are in fact sending some signal across our medium. So when I connect my LAN cable to my laptop, I transmit and produce some electrical signal going across that copper wire in the LAN cable. For any signal, and this is coming back to high school physics, for any signal, if we can look at it from the perspective of some waveform, think of a sine wave. They can be more complex than that, but some sinusoid, that signal takes some time to propagate. So from when I start transmitting the signal out of my computer until it propagates across the link between my computer, the source and the destination computer, there's some time involved there, the propagation delay. We'll have a few examples of that in a moment. We'll see that generally we can calculate, if we know some parameters, we can calculate transmission and propagation delay in simple cases. Other two factors may impact on delay. My computer must generate the signal, send to one device. That device may then send it to another one. Every time a device or computer processes the data, there may be some time for the CPU to do the processing, to read from disk, to read from and write to memory, and the CPU to do some processing. That takes some time for each computing device, the processing delay or processing time. Unfortunately, that's very hard to predict or calculate, in this simple course, because how long does it take my laptop to process and my CPU to process a single message? Well, it depends upon the CPU, the memory speed, the hard disk. It depends exactly on what's happening and how the software and hardware is implemented. It's very hard to predict or calculate what that time will be. Fortunately, in most cases it's very small. With fast computers today, the time to process a 100-byte message is in the order of nanoseconds, maybe microseconds. So, in theory, there's usually a processing or there's a processing delay involved. In practice, at least in this course, we'll see often we'll assume it's quite small, or zero, compared at least to the other factors. We'll give some examples. And the other factor, the other delay is what we call queuing delay. And this occurs when, especially in cases where we have multiple senders sending data at the same time, and the data arrives at some device that needs to send it on again, that device may only send one piece of data at a time. The others that it have to send may be queued, must wait in a queue before they are sent. So we'd say that those other pieces of data or messages incur some queuing delay. So an extra delay. The total delay from getting our message from A to B is the sum of these components. So if we can determine each of the four components, the total delay is just the sum of them. Let's go through some examples to illustrate these components. Let's start with some simple examples. There's a propagation delay. That's about the time it takes a signal to propagate through some link. Look at the clock. If I'm looking at the clock, the clock is generating some light. The clock generates some light. And that light is travelling to my eyes. So it takes some time from the light emitting from the clock until it reaches my eyes. How long does it take? What? Four metres away from the, or say three metres away from the clock. How long does it take for the light, which is just a signal, the light to come from the clock and reach my eyes? Can anyone calculate that? This is physics from high school, many years ago. How long does it take for light to travel some distance? How would you calculate that? Any idea? The light comes out of the clock and it reaches your eyes. It covers some distance, maybe 10 metres now from the clock to your eyes. From when it comes out of the clock or is generated by the clock and reach your eyes, how long does it take? Or how would you calculate that? You may not have the exact answer. How would you calculate it to find the answer? Meters per second, okay. Something about a speed. Speed of what? Speed of light. So we need to know the speed of light because light is the signal that's travelling in this case. So how many metres per second does light travel? Approximately. Three metres per second. Three something. Three something, good, you're on the right track. What about, what's the something? Three hundred million. Approximately, okay. Meters per second. Yeah, 2.99 something. Or about, or three by ten to the power of eight metres per second. The speed of light. That's what we'll use, okay. It's a little bit less than this. Three hundred million metres per second. So now, how long does it take the light to go from the clock, three metres to reach my eyes? So now we, if we know the distance that that light needs to travel, and we know the speed at which it travels, we can calculate the time or the delay it takes to travel that distance. So if it needs to cover, cover a distance of three metres, and we're going at this speed, then it's three metres divided by three by ten to the eight metres per second. One by ten to the minus eight seconds, okay. Ten nanoseconds, is it? So, quite simple.  It's just the distance divided by the speed at which you drive. How long does it take our signal, our light signal, to travel some distance? The distance divided by the speed of light, in this case. All the same with our communication signals. When I now send a signal from my laptop over a cable to this PC, if I connect them via this, let's say it's one metre cable, then the propagation delay is this time of how long it takes that signal to propagate across that cable. And we'd need to know the same things. We'd need to know the distance, the length of the cable, and we'd need to know the speed at which the signal propagates across the cable. How long, what's the speed of electricity? Our electrical signal to propagate across my copper wires. Anyone want to guess? Approximate. Faster or slower than the speed of light? Okay. A lot slower. In fact, not much. It depends upon the physical material, the wiring that we use. Okay? So it depends if we're using copper wires, if we're using optical fibres, we have different speeds. And I never remember, it's on the order of... So speed of light is 3 by 10... 3 by 10 to the power of 8 metres per second. The speed of sending our electrical signal across our copper wires is about 2 points something by 10 to the power of 8 metres per second. 200 million metres per second. Still very fast, of course. It's approaching the speed of light, but of course, slightly less. In this course, unless I tell you otherwise, if we're talking about some signal propagating through any medium, let's assume that it is travelling at the speed of light, just to keep things simple. Sometimes I'll say otherwise and say, okay, assuming the signal has a speed of 2 by 10 to the power of 8 metres per second. Calculate this. If I don't say that, then you assume it's 3 by 10 to the power of 8 metres per second. And you need to remember the speed of light or you should know it. So light travels at this speed, our electrical signals or our communication signals travel slightly slower than this, depending upon the medium. In which case, if we know the length of our link and we know the medium and we can determine the speed of our signal, then we can determine the propagation delay for that link. We can calculate it. That's the propagation delay. Transmission delay. Now let's go through some calculations. I hope you have this. If you look, let's check. This is the handout entitled Performance Examples. Just check if you have this in your lecture notes, this one. I'm just going to go through some of the simple examples on the board. You can follow, but you have them right in front of you. Performance examples. First, we're going to look at transmission delay and propagation delay, ignoring queuing and processing to keep our life simple to get started. In this case, for the calculations, I checked in this case that the transmission speed, that is the speed of our signal we're going to assume, is 2.8 by 10 to the power of 8 meters per second, so a little bit less than the speed of light. Instead of 3, it's 2.8. If we have two devices connected via a single link, 10 kilometers in length, so if we draw our system A connected to B via some cable, the distance that it travels is 10 kilometers. The link data rate, so here we're talking about the data rate, is 1 megabit per second. That means that A, if we're looking from A to B, sending data A to B, if A transmits, it can transmit at 1 million bits per second. That's the data rate. If we want to send a single packet, a single message, and the size is 100 bytes, so A has a message which is 100 bytes in length, wants to send it to B. How long does it take? What is the delay? Now, we're going to assume that the processing delay, A and Bs are computers. They take some time to process this message, but they're very fast computers, and let's say the processing delay is very, very small. Small enough that we'll assume it's zero. And there's no queuing delay. Same, it's very, very small. Just for this theoretical calculation, the example, let's make them zero. We'll come back to them later. So we've got two components that impact on the total delay, the transmission and propagation delay. So the transmission delay, think of A's got 100 bytes of data to transmit. It transmits at a rate of 1 million bits per second. How many seconds does it take to transmit that 100 bytes? 100 bytes of data at a speed of 100 million bits per second, then we can calculate the transmission delay. I think I denote it in the handout as DT. Well, 100 bytes. Now note that our data is measured here in bytes, but our speed in megabits per second. When we're doing calculations, try and get them in the same unit. So I'll convert this from bytes to bits. So instead of 100 bytes, let's say 100 times 8 bits. I have 800 bits to send, and I'm sending them at a speed of 1 million bits per second, 1 by 10 to the power of 6 bits per second, a megabit per second. And from that we can find the time or the delay. Bits divided by bits per second gives us seconds. Bits divided by bits per second in terms of the units gives us bits times by seconds. The b's cancel out, we get seconds as the units. So we can double check that we're doing the calculation correct. We know we expect to get seconds as the delay, the size divided by the rate in this case. 800 bits divided by 1 megabit per second is 800 times 10 to the power of minus 6 seconds. 800 divided by 1 is 800. 1 divided by 10 to the power of 6 is 10 to the power of minus 6. Or 800 if we use our prefix, microseconds. That's a mu microseconds. I'll check. We can convert that to a different unit. It will see in the handouts. Any questions on this first step? This is just calculating one component of the delay, the time to transmit the information out of my computer. I've got so many bits. I send at some rate. It gives me some time or some delay in this case. Again, you have this in the handouts under the title performance examples. You can follow along. I've written the answer using the prefix of micro in microseconds. Of course, it's the same as 0.8 milliseconds. Or 0.0008 seconds. We can choose the prefix. When we're dealing with longer calculations, it makes sense to try and choose a prefix that's easier to use. For me, I prefer to use prefixes with whole numbers or with integers. Avoid fractions or many decimal places. But sometimes you cannot. So there's no one best answer here. You can say 800 microseconds, 0.8 milliseconds. They're both the same. But for ease of use, later, we may convert the units. So it takes 800 microseconds to transmit out of my computer. Because we're sending one bit at a time. We have one bit. We generate some signal, some electrical signal, to carry that bit across the link. And then we do the next bit and the next bit until we've done all 800 bits. When we transmit the first bit, the signal comes out of computer A. Some waveform and propagates along the link until it's received at computer B. This is like our light travelling from the clock to my eyes. Some waveform, the light travelling some distance at some speed. And the time it takes is our propagation delay. And as we saw before, the distance divided by the speed. It's 10 kilometres, which is 10 by 10 to the power of 3 metres, divided by the speed of our signal, or the speed of transmission given here. And in some cases, we can assume it's the speed of light. But in fact, in this case, I've stated it's 2.8 by 10 to the power of 8 metres per second. Because I looked up the value before. And you'll get some answer, which is 0.136, 0.036, 36 microseconds. Any questions before we move on to the next step? So what we just did is calculated the propagation delay. And the propagation delay deals with the physical signals. Light, audio, our electrical signal going across a cable. Think of it as some waveform, some sinusoid. And it takes some time to propagate across our medium. How long is our propagation delay? So we've got a signal. Think of a wave, it starts. It's generating, it's propagating across our 10 kilometre cable. And the speed at which it propagates is determined by the signal type and the medium. In this case, we said the speed is 2.8 by 10 to the power of 8 metres per second. Where did that number come from? I looked it up on some website or in some textbook about different mediums like copper, optical fibre. And I looked up and found an example of an optical fibre was around 2.8 by 10 to the 8 metres per second. It's slightly less than the speed of light. So we've got some distance for our signal to propagate. And we've got some speed, therefore the time is simply the distance divided by the speed. And gives us 36 microseconds in this case. So now what our computer A has started to do is it starts transmitting. Think of it, it transmits the signal representing the first bit. And that signal propagates across the link. But then a little bit later it starts transmitting the second bit, the third bit, until it's transmitted all 800 bits. The time to transmit all 800 bits was our 800 microseconds. The time for one bit to propagate across the link was 36 microseconds. The total time to get all of our data across the link is the sum of those two components. Can someone just turn on the air please? The total delay in this case, remember we have four components and they're additive. We've said processing and queuing is zero, so we can ignore them. And we've just calculated in this case transmission and propagation delay. The total delay is the sum of those four components. Well, two of them are non-zero, so it's just the sum we get 0.836 milliseconds or 836 microseconds. 36 plus 800 microseconds. So that's how long it takes our message to get from A to B, just one message in this case. That's our delay. Let's go through another example, make sure everyone's clear. And then we'll look at some other processing and queuing. Maybe you don't have this printed. It's on the website if you want it, but there's a few slides here, but it's just another simple calculation with some more details. Find the answer. Do it yourself in the next couple of minutes. Different scenario. A has simpler five bits to send to B. The link distance is 4.5 kilometers. The data rate is 500 kilobits per second. What is the total delay? You may make some assumptions and find the answer, the total delay in this case. Try on your own for a couple of minutes and then we'll discuss the answer. Many people like to copy things and like to copy down the question. In these questions in the class, you can check the details later. Maybe just draw a picture like this one. Don't spend the next three minutes copying the exact words. Try to find the answer first. So try and do it as quick as possible as if this was a quiz question. It goes direct to finding the answer. Remember there are four components of delay that we're considering. Transmission, propagation, processing and queuing. To get started. In this question, what's the processing delay? You can assume it's zero. If it's not given or you cannot calculate it, it's fair to assume that the processing delay is zero. It's small. Same with queuing delay. So in fact you only have two components to consider. Propagation and transmission. Anyone have an answer? Some people are on the way to an answer. Just take some time without a calculator. That's good. Okay. We've assumed processing and queuing was zero. Then the next thing is what's the speed of transmission? The speed of our signal? Well, normally when it's not given, assume the speed of our signal is 300 million meters per second. The speed of light. If it's in an exam, in fact usually in the exam I say at the front, assume it's this, unless I tell you, but if you need to make an assumption, just state that assumption. I assume the speed of light is x. And then calculate using that. And assuming it's close to this, I'll mark it correct. In this case I've done the answer with 300 million meters per second. Yes, in an exam you can use a calculator. And it's useful to have one in the lectures in some cases. In an exam a normal calculator is allowed. So we've got two components to consider, transmission and propagation delay. You can do either one of them first. Okay. So you can calculate either one, but I will calculate the transmission or look at transmission delay first. Before I go through any answers, 25, something sounds correct. From memory, yep. That looks correct, or very close. Looks good. A few people have got the answer. A couple more minutes just to give everyone a chance. That looks good. Make sure you write your units. Use a meter, seconds, dollars. Just check your units. The number looks correct, but the units don't. Or the prefix, no? What do you get? That looks okay. Okay, so I see a few people on the right track doing the calculations correct and getting numbers like 25 something, depending on someone be careful with the units and prefixes, but 25 microseconds. Let's go through in detail and explain using a diagram what transmission and propagation delay mean. So this is a different viewpoint. For those who don't understand what we mean by these two components, let's go through in a graphical manner to explain how A gets the data to be. What I'm trying to show in this diagram as we step through is what A does over time and how the signal propagates over time. So think of at time zero, we start a clock. And the delay, we want to measure how long it takes to get the data from A to B. So if we start at time zero, and as we go down in this diagram, time is increasing. So think this is time 20 microseconds, 22 microseconds. So we'll draw on this diagram what happens over different periods of time. The goal is A to get data to be, five bits of data in this simple case. A starts this at time zero. So what A does, it has five bits to send. Think of it, it transmits one bit at a time. So it starts transmitting the first bit at time zero. And what was our data rate? 500 kilobits per second. How many bits in one microsecond? Or maybe easier. How many microseconds to transmit one bit? How many microseconds to transmit one bit if we can transmit 500 kilobits per second? Two, I think is correct. So our data rate was 500 kilobits per second. 500,000 bits per second. So 500,000 bits per second is the same as 500 bits per millisecond in this case. If we have 500,000 bits in one second, we can transmit 500 bits in one millisecond. One second to one millisecond. Or half a bit per microsecond. Remember the prefixes seconds, milliseconds. There's a factor of 1,000 difference here. 1,000 milliseconds per second. And microseconds, there's 1,000 microseconds every millisecond. Half a bit per microsecond or two microseconds per bit. It's just another way to look at that rate. The inverse. 500,000 bits per second means to transmit one bit, it would take two microseconds. You don't have to worry about these two steps. It's just going through the detailed procedure. Understand if we have 500,000 bits per second, it takes two microseconds for one bit. Or mathematics, quite simply, one divided by 500,000. It's just the inverse of this number to get the time. So if we start transmitting the first bit at time zero, when do we finish transmitting the first bit at time two? It takes two microseconds to transmit the first bit. How long to transmit one bit? One bit in two microseconds. So if I try and draw this transmission, I draw it as a box, the first bit, if we start at time zero, we'd finish the first bit at time two on our picture. So I think to get that first bit out of my computer, it took two microseconds. Now I start sending the next bit. And that's what I've tried to draw here. We send the first bit, the second bit, if we start immediately after the first bit at time two, we'd finish the second bit at time four, the third bit finish at time six, the fourth bit and the fifth bit would be finished transmitting at time ten. So start at time zero, five bits takes ten microseconds. That's our transmission delay. And I think some of you calculated that is simply the data size, five bits divided by the data rate, 500 kilobits per second. Ten microseconds. So our transmission delay, ten microseconds. Five bits, two microseconds each. So the other component, what about the propagation delay? And that's, I think, when you combine them, it's hard for people to understand. So let's try and illustrate that. Again, go back to the start. We know that the transmission took ten microseconds, but let's go back to the start again. When I say transmit one bit, what actually happens? Well, when I transmit one bit, I think that for that time we're sending a signal, some electrical signal out of the source computer. So at time zero, I think the signal comes out of my computer onto the link. And that signal starts propagating across the link. So the signal starts propagating across the link as soon as we start transmitting at time zero. So we start transmitting at time zero, and the signal comes out, starts propagating. How long does it take to propagate? Well, we had 4.5 kilometers, which is the distance for the signal to propagate at a speed of light, 3 by 10 to the power of 8 meters per second. And if you take 4.5 kilometers divided by 300 million meters per second, you get 15 microseconds. That's easy. Just be careful with the units and prefixes. Here, kilometers, thousands of meters, here, 10 to the power of 8 meters per second. So if we start transmitting the signal at time zero, and it takes 15 microseconds to propagate to the other end, the other end of the link between A and B, then if we start here, we think the signal's propagating, it's propagating, it takes time. After 15 microseconds, it arrives at B. So computer B starts receiving the signal at time 15. So that's how we can illustrate the propagation time. In fact, we're not looking at when does B start receiving the first bit. We want to know when has B received the fifth bit, the last bit. So now we combine the two components together, transmission and propagation delay. So using the same concept, we start transmitting bit 1 at time zero, the signal starts propagating, going across the link. At the same time, or after two microseconds, we've finished transmitting bit 1 and we start transmitting bit 2. In the meantime, bit 1 is propagating across the link. And if we follow this, that is bit 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, if we start transmitting bit 5 at time 8, again it takes 15 to propagate, but in fact, we've finished transmitting the fifth bit at time 10. So I think the last portion of that fifth bit, the signal comes out of my computer at exactly time 10. And that signal, the last part of the the transmission must propagate across the link, 15 microseconds to propagate. So if we started transmitting at time 10, it would arrive at time 25. So there's some confusion sometimes in that the signal for the first bit is propagating and arrives at time 15. But while that's propagating, the second and third bit are also being transmitted. So in fact, what we care about is the total time to transmit from zero to 10 plus the time for that last signal to get to be, which is from 10 through to 25. That means the total delay from when we start time zero until when we've delivered all the data is 25 microseconds. Quite mathematically, it's just the sum of the two components, transmission plus propagation delay. So mathematically, it's easy. If you can calculate both of those two components, just add them together. But sometimes people get confused with what's happening with the bits and the propagation. Well, it's a bit more complex in that we see that one bit's one after another. And at the same time, those signals representing the bits are propagating across the link. When does the last signal arrive? Well, at this point. And that's what we care about. It gives us a total delay of 25 microseconds. 10 microseconds of transmission delay, 15 of propagation delay. Again, you don't have these slides in your printer to handouts, but they're on the website. You can download and have a more detailed look. The calculations were simple.  Questions about this one before I go back to the lecture notes. Simple thing. Remember, delay is additive. To get the total delay, add the components together. So if you can calculate the individual components, transmission and propagation, then you can get the total by adding the components together. You need to remember, transmission delay is the data size divided by the data rate. And that's in the performance examples handout, the equation there. The number of bits divided by the bits per second. Propagation delay is the distance, the physical distance in meters divided by the speed of the signal transmission in meters per second. Let's go through another example. This example is from the handouts that you do have. The performance examples. So from these performance examples, we went through case one. Case two is just a simple extension where we changed the link length from what we have 10 kilometers up to 1,000 kilometers. You can check that one. Let's try case three.  I'll try and draw a picture that captures the information in the question. We're using a satellite communication system in this simple example. Let's see and calculate the components of delay and add up the total delay. In this satellite system, there's a satellite up in space or in this case in geostationary orbit. That is above the earth, there's a satellite and the distance is about 36,000 kilometers. Here's our satellite. Here's a ground station. So this is on earth somewhere in Thailand, for example, and the distance from earth to the satellite, 36,000 kilometers. And how we use this satellite is that there's a computer at this ground station is going to transmit a packet up to the satellite. Say the computer here is in Thailand and the satellite then transmits the signal, repeats it and sends it down to some other earth station or ground station, say in the US. And the distance between the satellite and the second ground station is also 36,000 kilometers. So that's a typical form of satellite communication. Somewhere on earth we send up to the satellite. The satellite just repeats the signal and sends that down to some other location. As opposed to sending, say, via cables across or submarine cables through the Pacific Ocean, we just send up to the satellite and down to another continent. What have we got? The speed of transmission to or from the satellite to ground stations. The ground stations are these ones on the ground here, on earth. We're using the speed of light. So our assumption is 3 by 10 to the 8 meters per second. And the link data rate is 1 megabit per second in both directions. So I'll just write here 1 megabit per second. And same with this link. So when we send our message up to the satellite, we're transmitting at a speed of 1 megabit per second. And then the satellite, when it receives that message, the entire message, it sends the same message down at a speed of 1 megabit per second. And here we'll add in some processing time. What we do is the computer generates the message at the first ground station, let's say A, sending to B. We send a message up to the satellite. The satellite has to do a little bit of processing. And the satellite has an old computer. It's been up in space for 10 years. It takes 4 milliseconds to process this message. Yeah, 4 milliseconds. So once we receive the message, there's an extra delay of 4 milliseconds, the processing delay and the satellite, and then the satellite sends down to B. Find the total delay. Last thing, a 1000 byte message. So given we need to send a 1000 byte message from A to B via this satellite, how long does it take? What's the transmission delay? Let's go through the different components. Now we have a network. We have two links. And delay is additive, meaning we can treat the link separately, and for the total delay, add up the components for both links. So now we think we have link 1 from A to satellite, and link 2 from satellite down to B. For link 1, we can calculate the transmission delay and the propagation delay, and also for link 2.  Recall our transmission delay is our data size divided by our data rate. 1000 bytes at a rate of 1 megabit per second. 8000 microseconds or 8 milliseconds. So from A up to the satellite to transmit that 1000 byte message takes 8 milliseconds. Let's find one more colour. Let's make note of them on the diagram. So to transmit up, the transmission delay is 8 milliseconds from A up to the satellite. But the signal needs to propagate across that 36,000 kilometer link, so we calculate the propagation delay, and that's the distance divided by the speed. The speed of light in this case. Distance, 36,000 kilometers. 3 by 10 to the 8 meters per second is the speed. 120 milliseconds, let's check. 120 milliseconds in that case. Okay, you can use a calculator. But the hardest thing, make sure you check the prefixes. Make sure you're using the same units and prefixes. So to get a signal up to the satellite takes 120 milliseconds. What's next? Once we get the signal up to the satellite, then there's an extra delay. There's a processing delay at the satellite. So we get the message at the satellite, and then the satellite does some processing. The CPU goes to work, and it takes 4 milliseconds to process. And then it starts transmitting down to B. What's the transmission delay from satellite to B? The transmission delay from satellite to B, same size message, 1,000 bytes, same rate, 1 megabit per second, therefore same transmission delay, because it's the same characteristics for the link. And similar, the propagation delay will be the same, because it's the same distance, same speed, so another 120 milliseconds. So there will be 8 milliseconds to transmit down plus 120 milliseconds of propagation, and then the entire message has been received by B. Total delay is the sum of the components. 8 plus 120 plus 4 plus 8 plus 120, 260 milliseconds in this case. So we've seen two new things here. The propagation and transmission we can calculate from the same as before, but we've seen processing delay. In this case, in this example, I just gave you the value of the processing delay. It's very hard to calculate, because it depends upon the computer speed and the implementation of things. So the processing delay is hard to calculate. In this course, I'll either give you the value or you assume it's zero. So in this case, I gave you the processing delay of the satellite to be 4 milliseconds, processing delay at A and B, let's assume that there was zero in this case. But I could say, as B receives, the antenna incurs a processing delay of half a millisecond. If that was the case, you just add that on. Just add the components together. Similar, when we have more than one link, treat the link separately, and then the total delay is just the summation of the components. So transmission propagation, add them all up and you get the total delay. So we've seen some simple examples of three components. Transmission, propagation and processing. What about queuing delay? At lunchtime, you go to the cafeteria and you get in line, or most people get in line to order food. So there's a line of 10 people in front of you to order food. If you arrive, then you have to wait in the queue and you spend some time in that queue and that's the queuing delay. So if you spend one minute waiting to get to the head of the queue before you can order, then that's the queuing delay that's incurred for you while you're waiting to order. Now, in a communication system, queuing delays often occur in large networks like the internet, where many messages arrive at one computer at the same time and that one computer can only send one message at a time. So that computer, the messages are in a queue waiting to be sent. If we had other ground stations transmitting up to this same satellite, C and D, A, C and D all transmit to the satellite at the same time. It has multiple receive antennas. It receives three messages. Then it needs to transmit them all down to B. Well, it can only transmit one at a time. So it receives three messages, has three to send to B, it sends one of them to B while the other two wait in a queue. And then the second one is sent to B while the last one is waiting in a queue to be sent and then the last one is sent to B. In that case, those messages would have an extra queuing delay. So queuing delay usually occurs when many people are sending into a device at the same time and then they have to send out one at a time. Same as the queuing delay for you in the cafeteria. If there's many people who've just finished the lecture and go to the same shop at the same time, your queuing delay will be high. But if you arrive there at 10.30am when there's no one else coming out of the lecture, then the queuing delay may be very small because there's fewer people coming into the system. So the queuing delay depends upon the amount of messages or the amount of packets coming into a particular device. In this course, we will not attempt to calculate queuing delay. You need, there's a field of mathematics to analyse queuing delay and it can get very complex. Again, similar to processing delay, in a question in an exam I may say, assume the queuing delay is 10 milliseconds, then to calculate the total delay you just add it on to the other components. It's just the summation of all the components. So I will not ask you to calculate queuing delay or processing delay, but I may give you some values or example values and you just add it in to get the total delay. Any questions about how to calculate delay in a communication system? We've got one more example to go through, then we're done. So in summary, transmission delay, the time to get the bits out of the computer, the transmitting computer, data size divided by data rate, transmission delay, propagation delay, the time for a signal to traverse a link depends upon the link distance and the signal speed, say the speed of light. Then the other two components, processing delay, depends upon the computers, and queuing delay depends upon the other messages in the system. And total delay, the summation of all the components. Let's finish with a short example because we're not going to cover packet delay variation, not in this course. So the main ones, delay, throughput, data rate, and bandwidth is more to come soon. Let's have one quick example of delay. Some of you, we said in an internet application gaming and people have heard of Ping. Ping is a, in my computer, a program that sends a message to a destination computer. Destination sends back a response and we can measure the time or the delay for that request and response to get back. For example, the destination can be ICT server. If this works, let's just make it smaller so it's all in one line, I hope. What's happening when I run this program Ping, my laptop sends to the ICT server and a response comes back. And the most important thing is that it reports the time to get there and back. So sending one message, the size of the message is about 64 bytes. There's some fine details there, but a small message. Send to ICT server, ICT server sends back a response. So the time to get there and back is given here and it keeps doing, sending a message, get a response. A bit later, send another message, get a response and the times vary. So in the order of several milliseconds, 10 milliseconds, 19 milliseconds and so on. 16 milliseconds. It differs because of the network. There may be other people sending and there may be some queuing delay and processing delay at different devices in the network. So just a quick example of the time to get there and back. It's what's called the round trip time. Time to get, to go around. That is to the destination and back. What we calculated here was the one-way delay from A to B. Ping is going from A to B and then B back to A. So it's there and back. And it gives us some summary information here like the average of 8 milliseconds. You can try ping on your computer and from home or from SIT and try and ping different destinations and see the different delays. It's best to do it outside of SIT, say from home. Let's stop there and on Wednesday we'll start the new topic on data transmission and look at signals in detail. Signals, bandwidth, frequencies and so on.


Hey TuffyTV, Teemo in Chicago. Tough game today. Sorry about my voice. I was screaming my head off yesterday at a football game. I thought it was a decent first half with missed opportunities, but I mean the story for me of this game is John Moss and missed opportunities. I thought the referee was terrible. Ghana's foul was not a foul. It was a great tackle. Just left and right, bad decisions, missing stuff on both sides, calling stuff that was just made up out of whole cloth. I thought it was terrible. I don't like focusing on the referees, but it really felt like 12 versus 11 today. That's tough, but you've got to be better than that. Everton's got to make their opportunities count, and they didn't today. Whether it was Bernard or Rich Arleson or Gomez, Sigurdsson, there were a lot of chances that were just missed. I've got to work on finishing. It appears right now, we've got a little bit of a hole in our offense in finishing, so we've got to keep working on that. For me, still Jordan Pickford, man of the match, for us, saves an amazing penalty, gets unlucky with the rebound, gets scored against, not his fault, shouldn't even have been a penalty. The goal that Marcial scored, world class, nothing you can do about that. And then everything else, he was a stud. I have no complaints about him. He's proven why he's Everton's number one, why he's England's number one. Good on, Jordan. As for the rest, disappointing game by a few men up forward. I would say Wolcott was pretty much invisible. Bernard had a couple of mistakes. Rich Arleson had trouble getting into the game. Sigurdsson was alright, but that wasn't good enough today. I thought Ghana played well, even on his card. It was a mixed bag. Just got to keep the team together, keep moving forward. I thought Gomez looked good again. I think he went the full 90 today. So, positives, negatives, disappointed to not get a point. I really felt after the first half, like we should have been up to nothing. So, top one today. But you're going to have those, especially away to a side at the top six. It's about time we get a win or two away against the top six this year, but today wasn't our day. John Moss made sure of that. So, hopefully move on next week and just take a step forward and hopefully put four in the back of the net. So, alright, thanks guys.


Hello everyone, I'm here with a very special guest, the meme god himself, former senator from Alaska, current 2020 presidential candidate, Senator Mike Gravel. Senator Gravel, thank you so much for coming on the program. Well, thank you for having me. I was just complimenting Senator Gravel before he came on about his Twitter game, and he tells me that this isn't actually him, which is a little bit disappointing, but nonetheless, whoever's running your Twitter, they're amazing. I just got to start by giving them the kudos there. Well, not only that, they're articulating via their own intelligence and betting the issues that we both agree on. So there's nothing at variance. It's just that you've got younger persons, certainly more enthusiastic and more energy than I can muster at this point in my life. So it's good. It is. I want to talk to you about that because this originally to run for president. I mean, this wasn't your idea. This is something that was brought to you by individuals who wanted you to run after they saw your performance in the 2008 debates. And for those of you who haven't seen this, I'm going to play a short clip of Senator Gravel basically railing against Barack Obama, Hillary Clinton and Joe Biden. And this is the clip that initially got me on board because I was a little iffy at first, like who's this Mike Gravel guy? Watch this clip and then you're going to understand why there's so much hype around him. Senator Gravel, at a forum earlier this year, I want to get this right. You said it doesn't matter whether you are elected president or not. So then why are you here tonight? Shouldn't debates be for candidates who are in the race to win the race? You're right. I made that statement. But that's before I had a chance to stand with them a couple of three times. It's like going into the Senate. You know, the first time you get there, you're all excited, my God, how did I ever get here? Then about six months later, you say, how the hell did the rest of them get here? And I got to tell you, after standing up with them, some of these people frightened me. They frightened me. When you have mainline candidates that turn around and say that there's nothing off the table with respect to Iran, that's code for using nukes, nuclear devices. I got to tell you, I'm president of the United States. There will be no preemptive wars with nuclear devices. To my mind, it's immoral and it's been immoral for the last 50 years as part of American foreign policy. Let's use a little moderator discretion here. Senator Gravel, that's a weighty charge. Who on this stage exactly tonight worries you so much? Well, I would say the top tier ones. They've made statements. Oh, Joe, I'll include you too. You have a certain arrogance. You want to tell the Iraqis how to run their country. I got to tell you, we should just play get out. Just play get out. It's their country. They're asking us to leave and we insist on staying there. And why not get out? What harm is it going to do?  The entire deaths of Vietnam died in vain. And they're dying in vain right this very second. You know what's worse than a soldier dying in vain is more soldiers dying in vain. That's what's worse. Okay, so let me ask you this, Senator. What was it then made you agree to this? Because if I were in your shoes, if I were 88 years old, I if these kids came up to me and said, hey, let's run for president. I tell them no way. So what made you believe that this was the right decision? When they called and it was David Oaks that called and asked me if I'd run for president. And I said to David with the snicker, David, do you realize how old I am? And I'm 88, but I'll be 89. I'm 89. I'll be 89 next week. Next Tuesday at my birthday. Happy birthday. Thank you. And so what David did, I was really not into it. But David sent me a communication that included the list of issues that he was concerned with. And at the top of the list was the issue of creating a legislature of the people. That's what I've been working on for the last 25, 30 years. And so when I saw that saw that at the top of his list, I really got my attention at that point in time. And so now it became a question of how we're going to do this. And so he asked if he could use ab access to my Twitter. Well, I developed a Twitter in the 08 presidential period and also Facebook. I never used them. I'm just not into tweeting, as they say. And so I had no problem giving him access. They took a lot of activity to be able to get them authorized to do this. But it was a question of my just trusting him and trusting his associate, Henry Williams. And there's nothing that they've done to cause me to question that decision that I made. And point of fact, I'm just so proud of the way it's done. They gave me originally veto proof on anything that they were doing. I've only exercised it once, and that was, well, twice. One was to not use the F word, which obviously I use privately. But I don't think it's a good public image for them or my campaign to have. The other was to limit the amount of negative on other candidates. We need to get our message across. We don't need to address the other messages. It's a normal situation of critiquing some of these other candidates when they go too far. And so I don't mind doing that. I don't really want them to do that, but I think I can do it and get away with it. Because they can critique me if they want. There's no barrier to that at all. That's how we got in. And what confirmed it with me was I had friends that would call me and say, God prevailed, you're just doing a great job on Twitter. And I said, well, great job as being done by these kids, because they understand the issues that float my boat, and they're exercising their judgment and amplifying those issues in an intelligent fashion. I can't tell you how fortunate I am that David Oaks is 17 years old. He's just finished high school and going to go on to Oxford. David Williams is a freshman at Columbia. And all the others are young. Plus, they admit to me that there are professionals that have contacted them and said, we want to help, pro bono. And they admit that a lot of these professionals know a lot more about campaigning than they do. But by the end of this exercise, they'll be pretty sophisticated on campaigns. And as we go forward. Let me ask you this, Senator. It was the break that we really needed, because we need to bring attention to the empowerment of the people. I often use the comparison that what's the most important virtue that a person could possess? Most important one is courage. If you don't have courage, you won't have the tools to implement the other virtues that you may have. And so it's the same thing. What's the most important thing in human governance? The law. We all live under the law. And so we give a monopoly to representative government in lawmaking. Both in lawmaking and in the Constitution. So if you're ever going to want to see a change, a fundamental change in representative government, you're going to have to become a lawmaker. And I have the whole procedure to bring that about with a constitutional amendment and with a federal statute, which is the legislative procedures to which the people will be empowered to act upon. So that's what floats my boat. I've been at it for 25 to 30 years, and that's what the kids understood as to how to get me involved and run for president, was to be able to exercise a communications process to bring people's attention to that the answer is not just electing somebody to public office. The answer is to empowering themselves to make laws in partnership with their representatives. And I certainly can get on board with that. But I want to ask you where are you guys at because you need 65,000 individual donors to get you on the debate stage so you can put this agenda front and center. So where are you guys at approximately in that process? Well, all I can do is give you an approximation because I don't follow it on a daily basis. They do. And we're talking about probably maybe 25,000, 30,000 signatures. So we're probably halfway there. Okay. And so what we've learned is that we could, you know, well, I lost the point. I had what you call a senior moment. Well, what I want to ask you is I want to play devil's advocate here because on one hand, I do understand the need to take what you're saying to a national stage. But on the other hand, certainly in my lifetime, this is probably the best crop of presidential candidates because we have a number of really progressive people running who I support and admire. You know, Bernie Sanders, Tulsi Gabbard, Elizabeth Warren. So let me ask you this. What do you say if somebody says, well, Mike, I see what you're doing, but you're just taking time away from the candidates who actually want to be president. How do you respond to that objection? Very simply because I have a better concept of what needs to be done here. Tulsi Gabbard and Bernie, and to some degree, Warren, I endorse, oh, I donated to Bernie's last election. And I think that Tulsi has the finest gravitas and the delivery of intellectual ideas of anybody I've ever heard of. But now what is it that I bring to the table?  They're not going anywhere. But so what's important is let's say Bernie's got an agenda. Let me ask you a question. Do you think he's going to get his agenda enacted if the Democrats don't get a hold of the Senate? What's going to happen to his agenda? Yeah, it's not going to go anywhere. Absolutely. So even if they got the Senate, when the last time the Democrats controlled the House and the Senate was when they passed Obamacare, at the time that it came out of the committee, 70% of the Americans wanted the public auction. They never put it there. They made the judgment that, well, we don't think we can sell that.  If you don't reach out, you'll never get it. And so what I'm advocating is that we elect the progressives, the most progressives to office, which would be Bernie and Tulsi in my mind. And then we equip them with the ability to get their agenda enacted into law. It's not going to be the Congress. It's going to have to be the American people who can be able to make laws. So if you ask the American people, are you for single-payer health care? They'll win overwhelmingly. Are you for doing away with the, let me get some issues out that I would continue. Do you want to repeal the Electoral College? You think that would pass by the people? And of course, that would benefit cleaning up elections. Then I want term limits for all federal judges. So if we've got a bunch of bad judges on the Supreme Court, the sooner we can turn a little bit them, the sooner we can clean that up. And then you can go on to other issues, like the right. It should be in the Constitution, the right to health care, the right to education, the right to economic security. These should be in the Constitution of the United States. I've got a process to bring this about them. And all it is, it's a constitutional amendment and a legislative procedures act that is enacted by the people. The Congress will never enact this. The elites who control our society will fight this tooth and nail. But with the constitutional amendment that I have designed, we don't have to worry about them. So basically, your goal is to get them to adopt this amendment that will empower the people. This reminds me of, I don't know if you've heard of Wolfpack. It's essentially a constitutional amendment to get money out of politics. And their goal is to get two-thirds of state legislatures to sign on to this to get a constitutional convention and basically ban money from politics. Is this kind of similar to that in strategy? He'll know. With all due respect to these people, it's a fool's errand. If you're going to go through the trouble of getting a constitutional amendment, you better empower the people to be able to make other amendments. So if you do this one, and of course what they're trying to do is to control money via law, that's not going to happen. You control this process by a constitutional amendment. And that's what they failed to do. Well, that's what Wolfpack is about. They do want to ban it by constitution, like ban money in politics. How are they going to get the constitutional amendment enacted? Well, with the two-thirds of state legislatures, that's the strategy. So I'm asking if that's your... What they're talking about is Article 5, which is a monopoly by representative government to deny the people to amend the constitution. So how would you go about getting a constitutional amendment? Oh, very simple. We get a group of people that accept the text of a constitutional amendment and they go out and raise several hundred million dollars and conduct a national election. They will permit people to vote to empower themselves to make laws. And at the same time, as they do that, they turn around and they equip the people with the Legislative Procedures Act so that just enacting the people to make laws without deliberative procedures is creating anarchy. And so this is where a lot of these people fall off the rails in not thinking through this whole process. And I don't say this with disrespect. I say this with the fact that I have 12 years of elective office. I am a history buff and I've been at this for 30 years. But how do you get them to even get this on the ballot? Because we can't have a national referendum. First of all, what do you say that again now? So how do you get your constitutional amendment? Because if you're saying that you want people to vote to give them the power, well, how do you do that? Because you can't do this federally, so you have to go state by state. So I'm just curious about the strategy. Well, first off, you've got to not do it federal, because if you did it within the government of representatives, you're going to get sabotaged. Do you think for a minute, the elites would permit their employees to go ahead and get involved in this without sabotaging it? We see this with initiative laws across the country. Well, we can't have a federal referendum, is what I'm saying. So how do you use this? Well, first off, it's not a referendum. Reference is what government feeds the people. What we're talking about is people taking the initiative. So you and I, and a few of our friends, we decide that we're going to be the group that's going to go out and create an opportunity for the people to vote on this subject. So what does that mean? That we've got to raise, a voting in a national election is going to cost millions of dollars. So we've got to raise a lot of money. But if there's people committed to this, that money will come forward. So now what we do is we take this proposal, a constitutional amendment and a legislative procedures act, an amendment and a law. We put that before the people and we raise the money to be able to put it before the people and we use the modern technology very simply. Do you want to be empowered to make laws like the people who hold a monopoly on that process today in representative government? That's a question to you.  I would vote yes. Now we've got to get a standard. We've got to get at least 50% of the people plus one who voted in the last presidential election. We're talking to 70, 80 million people and we can leave the election going on. So maybe 100 million people want to vote to empower themselves to make laws. The minute we read the standard of what Alexia President, we then declare this the law of the land. And I would like to see the politicians basically as a group, they're cowards. I'd like to see them go ahead and fight the people, 80% of the people who want to be empowered to make laws. It's going to be Katie bar the door.  Let, let these, let these representatives that you don't know anything about manipulate you into voting for them. And so the only time you have power is on election day when you go into the booth and you click the switch. That's it. After that you're stuck. All you got to do is beg, plead and protest for the next two, four and six years. And I like this idea of empowering people, but here's the problem that I have. How do you sell this to people within 30 seconds or a minute on a debate stage? Because it's, it's a relatively complex scheme to kind of just pull off. So how do you condense that message and get to the debate and explain it to people so that way one, they understand it. Not just what it is, but also the strategy. How do you do that? Because this seems extremely complicated. Well, do you know something? Have you focused on the details of how you make laws in Congress? That's very complicated. That's all I've copied. That's exactly what I've copied in the legislative procedures that I've tweaked it. So it works for a hundred million people. So if you're prepared to say, oh, this is too complicated. But then what you're doing right now is even more complicated and dysfunctional. Sure. So what you can say is, do people, do people want to pay that much? No, they don't want to pay that much attention to it. But enough people hopefully will pay enough attention to it because you want to correct what's going on. You know that the government's dysfunctional right now. So what are you going to do? You elect another body of people that act no differently than they've been acting for the last 100 years, 300 years. You stop and think. Science has moved ahead from the discovery at the beginning of the industrial revolution. Science has moved ahead with discovery and change beyond our imaginations. What about the structure of government? It hasn't moved an inch beyond its founding in 1787. And what it was then was a device to perpetuate slavery and set up the device for genocide against the indigenous people of the continent. This is just the beginning. And so what you see, the murderous imperial society that we control today, no different than what it used to be. So what we need to do is to advance human governance to the level that we have scientific advancement. And we have to do that.  And that's because of the advance scientifically in the nuclear capability of planetary destruction. Right. And look, I'm on board with this idea. I know you're on board, but you wouldn't be talking to me. Yeah, yeah, absolutely. No, and I'm definitely interested, but I'm just trying to think about this in terms of how you really get that attention that you want.  I do what I do what I'm doing right now. I'm talking to you. Right. You have influence within your footprint. But on a debate stage on that national stage when the spotlight's on you and they say, Senator Gravel explained this. Are you going to say, well, look, here's just the quick rundown, but for more info, go to, you know, Mike Gravel.com. Like what I'm failing to grasp is how do you sell this to people?  A lot of people think Judge Judy's on the Supreme Court. So how do you get something like this across to people in a very precise way when it's so difficult, when you're going to be up against other candidates, when the moderator is going to want to cut you off? How do you cut across that? How do you get this across? Well, real simple. First off, I'm under no delusions. I get into debates. I'll be lucky if I get six, five, five, six, seven minutes. Yeah. What can you do in that period of time? Yeah. Do you think I can explain the whole legislative procedure the way the Congress works? No. Of course not. So what I do is what I've been doing. I try to articulate it as best I can so that people can be aware of it. So I can talk about issues like the nuclear suicide pact that our nation is on, or how the suicide pact exists for the implosion of the planet as a result of the environmental problems that we're not addressing. So I can talk to those and also point forward and look at, you're not happy the way things are going? You're being supplied minority. I'm talking about ruling by majority of the people. Now, if you don't want to buy into that, that's your problem. All I can do is do the best I can, and that may not be adequate. It hasn't been adequate for the last 30 years, and it may not be for another 30 years, but it may be just right now that the people are so fed up with the crap of what's going on in Washington and the government that maybe they would take a look over there and say, hey, maybe there's something too what Gravel is saying. So I don't know. All I can do is the best I can. Sure. But communications responsibility is yours. I'll have a book out in mid-summer. You take that book and you understand it. Read it through two or three times. It took me 30 years to get this on the table, and it would be the height of arrogance to think that you can read through what I've spent 30 years at and you can understand it totally. No. What you do is you go in and you ask questions. And if I'm still around, I'll be responding to those questions in great detail. What we need is to get this book. The title says it all. Human governance, the failure of representative government, and a solution, quote, the people. There's only two venues for change. One is the government, which is dysfunctional, and rules us by a minority of elites. And the other is the people, and the people don't have the power to make laws because that was categorically designed to not permit the people to make laws by the framers of the Constitution because they knew the people would not buy into slavery. And we have the example of what happened in Massachusetts to prove that. So since the founders got it wrong, and so it really serves the elites who control us as a minority to lionize the founders that walk on water. They didn't walk on water. They were elites that provided for their own sustained power and the continuation of their power by their progeny. This is what we have. And I'm not denigrating them. I'm just saying they were human beings like we have human beings today. So basically that's not enough. We need, and it's to understand, this is where you can help understand what is the central power of government, any government. It's always the people. No, no, it's the law. The people live under the law. So now the question becomes, who makes the law? Well, under the representative government, which is all we have in the world today, don't talk to the tyrants. Forget them. Just representative government. The people who make the law have a monopoly on making law. Those are the people you elect. And so the point I was making with you is that on election day, the only power you have is to give your power away. And so once it's gone, all you can do is write a letter to your congressman to protest in the streets over what they're not doing right. You know, go through the charade or elect some more people at the public office who are stuck into... See, it's not that we're electing bad people, or there's a lot of them. There's enough of that. Yeah, I'd say I'd probably disagree with that. Donald and family, bad people. Or Trump, bad people. But no, what's going on is that we... Here, I just got another senior moment. I forget the point I was making. Well, listen, I'll just say this, because I'm on board with it. And what I'm kind of grasping is that this is essentially to plant a seed to get people thinking about power structures differently, to get them to think about governance and really self-governance differently. And I can absolutely respect that. The way that I'm thinking about this in terms of how you sell this is all about your debate strategy on that stage, because basically this is what your campaign is about. So let me shift gears a little bit here. So one of the things that I disagree with you with is your stance on 9-11 being an inside job. I actually don't want to talk about that, because you actually had... I do if you disagree. Well, no, no, listen. You talked to David Pakman about this for about 17 minutes, and I think that basically... I heard it, yeah, I watched it, and I agree more with David Pakman than I do you, to be honest. However, let me say this. I don't care. Like, you and that's not a deal breaker for me, because what I want is for you to get your message and your platform across, because I think if you have a robust platform, I don't care if you have these other views that I disagree with. But let me ask you this. Strategically speaking, you're going to be called on, and the first question that they're going to ask you, we both know it, it's going to be Senator Gravel. You've made some controversial remarks. You claim that you have no doubt that 9-11 is an inside job. How do you respond to that question on a debate stage? Real simple. I say, are you not aware of the fact that the commission that was created by Bush was first to be chaired by Henry Kissinger? Does that not give you an inkling that there was something going on that he was acceptable because he's the classic cover your behind government? The second thing is going to be, does it not disturb you that the commission never even acknowledged the existence of Building 7 coming down by controlled demolition? Does that not raise a question? Does it not raise a question that this was the excuse that the neocons put forward to be able to, as they articulated in a letter, to be able to have a situation like the Pearl Harbor to energize the people to fight the war against terror, which is not a war, which is a war for infinity? Does it not disturb you a little bit to wonder when you follow the money that the chief beneficiaries of 9-11 are the military-industrial complex? Does that make you suspicious? All I'm asking for when I say it, let me finish. All I'm asking for is that we have a new commission to look at this. We had three commissions look at the press with Kennedy assassination. What's so wrong? I don't know who the insiders are.  What's so wrong with that? Why can't you accept that? Another commission, not of politicians. I would insist that members of the commission, the last three heads of the United Nations should be on that commission. And scientists, and not politicians. We don't need any more politicians covering our backside. What we need is going after the truth. And right now, yes. The whole point in me asking you this hypothetical is to see how you would answer that question. And I think that you and I both know that the way that corporate media works is they don't want to give you the time to talk about your platform. So what I was hoping that you would do if that question came up is completely dodge it, swatter away and jump straight to your platform. Not even get into it because to me it doesn't matter. I don't care about that position. You know what I mean? Good advice, and I'll tell you what, when you see me in debates, I'll assert myself. With all due respect, that's not the question you should be asking me. Does that sound like a good way to handle it? I think that would be fantastic because this is the way that I, when I hear you talk about this, I think, okay, I disagree, but like I said, it's not a deal breaker. I don't care enough because your platform is what you're most about. But the initial thing that worried me was that this is the one thing that we're going to take away from this debate. They're not going to let you get out the rest of your platform. They're not going to let you talk about your agenda. We'll see how the debate goes. But if you've got a taste of the way the debate goes, just look at the last debate. Right, which is why I'm also, I am confident. What I'm living on is what I said in the last debate. And isn't it interesting that all of the problems that we had at the last debate before Obama got elected and now Trump, that nothing has changed? Does that give you a message to let's have another election, get all these people elected to do all these things? They can't do these things. Obama wasn't able to do it. Trump isn't even worse. So what we need is a new device, that permits the issues that we want to be dealt with, to be dealt with. That's what I want you to say on the debate stage. That's what I want you to say on the debate stage, regardless if they ask you because they want to draw you in so you just talk about 9-11. But that's what I think would really be something that makes this a success. You pretend as if you're the host of that debate and you just take charge and you talk about your platform. That's what I want to see. Isn't that what they did in 08? That's exactly what you did in 08. I just want to confess that I haven't changed. Got a little older, every so often I'll have some senior moments but I think people will understand the senior moments because they don't detract from the message. What I was harking back 11 years ago and I had a book, I was in power and I'll have another book out that I can point to and here is the blueprint to solve the problem. Your assessment is spot on. Spot on. You've got to understand that you have a venue of communication and you're using that venue and now by trying to get into what I'm talking about in human governance that I think it is a very positive way. So don't worry about the fact that how the people are going to get this. You just keep communicating. I've learned a long time ago that people are not at all They're very bright and knowledgeable. All they're going to do is focus on the issue and so it's so tough to make a living today and raise a family and all that is time to reflect. But now if you put things in front of them they'll begin to reflect on it. No question. We've got 25% of the people that may be done as fence posts. I don't know but Trump is there. But then you've got 75% of the people that are open. They're just misinformed a lot of the time by cable news, misinformation. The problem is mainstream media. Who owns mainstream media? Military industrial complex. Wendy. And they sneak stuff in. They put forth some facts that if you understand the dynamics of what's going on you can use those facts against them. Like right now in the news today was a Trump which is Bolton and the Secretary of State a religious nut at best. There are things that are making the case that Iran is a threat to us. Iran is not a threat to us. It never has been. We're the ones that damaged them when we took out Mosaddeg when they had a representative government. So no. But today we're moving the fleet into threaten and scare the leadership of Iran. Will they react? I hope not. When I was in Iran talking and made a couple of speeches and spoke to the intelligence community elements of it I said, hey, just be patient. We're very immature in what we're doing as global imperialists. Just be patient. And as you were saying what can the powerful do whatever they want? What can the people who don't have power, they suffer what they have to? And so that's where we're stuck. We are the global imperialists and whether it's Venezuela whether it's Iran you name it and of course we use our sanctions. Sanctions are a tool of war. And so right now we are murdering thousands of young children who are being denied medicines and economic survivability in Venezuela. When you come back, when you compare that to what China has done between 600 million people from poverty to middle class and you then read the papers about the threat is coming from China that's just crap. China is in my mind performing a better service to the global economy than is the United States because we're misusing the power we have with the dollar and I'll tell you the dollar being reserve currency is going to disappear and because we're not going to be able to cover a foot to change that abusive power that we have and that's the foundation of how we can sanction people how we can do things to them and so once we don't have that power anymore our sanctions won't be worth a thing. Well let me say this the one thing that sold me on what you're doing is your debate performance in 2008 I actually feel bad that and for whatever reason you weren't on my radar but I'm writing that wrong now and second of all the thing that I liked was your platform the platform I set on my show is basically the gold standard it's better than Bernie's it's better than Tulsi's it's better than Warren's your platform is phenomenal so I don't want your platform to go away once this process is complete once you go on the debate stage so my one plea to you and your team is to put that platform online basically if you can't get out what you need to have people know that there's a resource they can go to a website or Twitter to see what you're talking about and what issues they're not being informed about and with that being said I will leave you with the last word to make your pitch to people as to why they should just chip in a buck to help you get on the debate stage one just go to the debates that occurred in 08 and if you like what I said then you just like what I'm going to say at the new debates secondly your other question is what happens after the debates first off I have a book out there that only deals with direct democracy it doesn't deal with like citizen powered deal as was a polemic plus direct democracy this is only going to deal with that and it's not going to be any more than 80 pages so you could read it in one sitting and if you want to then re-read it again because it will take you're absorbing the concept of what's involved and so that opportunity now secondly here we got David and Henry and what they got several hundred other supporters including yourself that you can now continue the battle the campaign to educate the people and so we will have plans I've got plans in my mind for these kids which have demonstrated their ability to organize and communicate and that's what it takes to bring about a national election that will give you the opportunity to vote for a constitutional amendment and a legislative procedures act that will equip you to make laws to address the problems that you think are so important and I think you're putting me on and you've given me some good ideas I can assure you that David Oaks and Henry will absorb them too after the debates they're going to be coming out here and visit with me or I'll visit with them when I'm back east but I don't intend to travel until it's two debates I'm keeping my powder dry as what happened with William McKinley who up until recently you know people went out and traveled in the old days you didn't you sat at your front porch and your minions went out there and so that's what's going on I don't have a front porch but I got a patio so this is a patio campaign and David is David and Henry are the co-chairmen and they're doing a fabulous job I rely on their judgment so you'll see us again and you'll see them again because you're going to want to interview them they've got the message just as well so I've got the message I look forward to covering their congressional campaigns absolutely so I look forward to you dunking that's on the debate stage Mike thank you so much for coming on the program Mike Gravel, tell us your website www.MikeGravel.org www.MikeGravel.org don't get mixed up I've got www.MikeGravel.us but this is the campaign one and just go to that one and you can contribute a dollar I need you to contribute a dollar and that's not much to pay to get me out of debates I'll entertain you that much for sure you pay $5 to rent a movie on Amazon you could pay a dollar to watch Mike Gravel dunk on corporatists on the debate stage well said alright we'll leave that there thank you so much for coming on thank you for having me