Hey everybody tonight we're debating whether or not Noah's Ark could have worked during the flood and we are starting right now With Dan's opening statement. Thanks so much for being with us Dan. The floor is all yours Thank you so much James. I'm thrilled to be here and thank you Kent for joining us So first thing I want to say tonight is please get vaccinated. We're doing so well There's light at the end of the tunnel the vaccines. They're almost miraculously effective. They're safe get vaccinated Second thing I want to say is People may say Dan, why are you doing this?  You're an evolutionary biologist Why are you debating about the Ark and the reason is that I think it's important to deal with misinformation whether that misinformation is serious or not the thing that worries me about conversations like this is That if you can train your brain to believe something even if it's something kind of silly like Did the Ark exist could that have worked something that doesn't hurt anybody if you believe it the problem Is if you can train your brain to believe something like that?  So it makes you more susceptible It makes people more likely to believe things like that vaccines or conspiracy or COVID isn't real or something like that Right and those beliefs do actual harm when they propagate. So that's why I'm doing this It's it's the point is to address misinformation as a whole because we want to we want to cut off that thought process that makes people susceptible to misinformation so Getting into it. There are some things. They're so obvious.  I'm talking about vaccines in general and that brings us to our topic for tonight So I'm gonna just take a quick second here to switch a room. I screen a little bit. So we're going to Do this and then do this and we should be good to go. Um, James Can you see both my face and the PowerPoint below me? Actually right now. I'm only able to see the same three boxes on zoom So I think what we tested out prior what I'm seeing right now isn't the same as what I had seen earlier when we tested it It's not the same. Well, hang on then. I'm gonna try to fix this. Okay, so let's see what we're looking at Oh, yep. I see I skipped a step. Let me fix that How about now? Is that what we saw before with the? Close face above a PowerPoint slide. Let's see. Let me just expand the screen and this should still work and We're good to go All right, so now we are here to talk about the arc and So there are a couple things like I said better not up for debate the first thing I want to point out that is pretty obvious that shouldn't be up for debate is that Kent is not a doctor and I this is a very frustrating thing for me. Um, it's mister not doctor here Okay, as someone who has earned a legitimate doctor It's very frustrating to have someone go around calling themselves a doctor when they have not earned that title now Unlike real dissertations. You can't find Kent's online in general But you can find a leaked copy floating around out there and it starts with hello My name is Kent. All right, and if you think I'm kidding. I'm not here's a screenshot of the first line of the introduction So I want to be very clear about this because there are lots of creationists who are actual credentialed Scientists people like dr. Nathaniel Jensen dr. John Sanford dr. Rob Carter dr. James Carter dr. Georgia Purtham dr. Michael be he dr. Jonathan Sarfati dr. Kevin Anderson. These are people that have legitimate technical degrees They have doctorates in whatever field mr. Hovind does not and it's frankly rude to the rest of the not just me but like Everybody that has earned a legitimate degree to to go along with mr. Hovind when he insists on being called doctors That's the first thing that should be obvious that we can all agree on The second thing is that the arc didn't happen and we know it didn't happen for a few very simple reasons One is that was too big to work as a wooden boat. This is the wyoming It's the largest wooden boat that has ever been built It was uh 450 feet from tip to tip, but the actual deck was 350 feet now what happened to the wyoming it sunk in heavy seas I believe off the coast of new england And the reason for that is because it's made of wood it would flex and that would cause it to leak And it wasn't ultimately seaworthy Now the arc depending on how you measure a qubit if you go by the long qubit definition was between 525 and 624 feet or if you go by the standard 18 inch qubit It was 450 feet from end to end Obviously the arc is not feasible as a wooden Ship of that size especially in heavy seas, which I would think a global catastrophic flood would have involved Some heavy seas so right away the arc just can't work But we also have another problem to contend with we have to deal with the heat associated with the flood Creationists have calculated the heat would be equal to 300 trillion One megaton hydrogen bombs that's from wall brown in 2015 Now even if 90 of that heat somehow dissipates, which it couldn't do But let's just assume 99 of that heat dissipates that still leaves the residual heat of 14 h bombs per cubic kilometer of ocean Obviously a wooden boat would be unable to survive in this environment So on those grounds alone the size of a wooden vessel and the heat associated with the flood The arc could not work period. That's the end But there are other problems and because I'm a genetic sky I'm going to take a couple minutes here because I'm almost out of time I'm going to take just a couple minutes to talk about genetic diversity All humans supposedly came from three mating pairs after the arc That's a problem for creationists because some human genes have over 1,000 variants And many creationists claim that virtually all extant genetic variation is due to recombination That's from Nathaniel Jensen and many others There's not enough time to generate all the existing variation through recombination One example. This is the abo blood group. This is the gene that controls your blood type Let's round to a thousand variants to be nice, but it's significantly more than that Let's pretend it's only a thousand and we'll unrealistically pretend that every time you do a recombination You get two brand new versions of that gene That means starting from between one and six you need about 500 recombination events to get all the variation We see in this gene Well, it's about one recombination event per chromosome per generation The abo gene is only about one 5,600 of its chromosome. It's located on chromosome nine So you need 2.8 million recombination events to get all the variants of that gene And if you this is the whole chromosome most of that chromosome is not genes So recombination being less likely in genes and specifically within exons the protein coding part that makes the problem worse At 20 years per generation and about 4,400 years since the flood you only have 220 generations And remember it's just one recombination per generation per lineage which would require over 12,000 distinct lineages from the arc and remember we're starting with three mating pairs So the math simply does not work It also gets worse because most recombination occurs in less than 10 of the genome Which makes the problem worse by between 10 and 100 times So it's not possible to get extant human genetic diversity from the surviving arc population The last thing i'll say is that you also have a problem with speciation rates cats are a great example Between the flood and abraham you need to generate About 150 species of cats You only have 300 years in there to do that and you also have an ice age in the middle which cuts out about 100 years This is true for lots of different groups. We know that because of hieroglyphics So the conclusion is that you can't get this rapid rate of speciation following The flood in the in the amount of time you need But creationists like kent must explain that rapid speciation within the biblical time frame. It's simply not possible I'm just about at my time. So here's my conclusion. Mr. Hovind has not earned a doctorate We shouldn't call him doctor the arc would not work It's too big and it would be destroyed by all the heat and the implications from the arc are impossible in terms of human genetics and speciation rates. Thank you Thank you very much for that opening statement dan We will kick it over to kent for his opening statement as well I want to let you know folks if it's your first time here at modern day debate We are thrilled about this upcoming debate on saturday namely Christian apologists and scholar kenny roads will be taking on atheist debater matt dillahunty And whether or not there is good evidence for god, you don't want to miss it folks So be sure to hit that subscribe button if you haven't already as well as that notification bell So you don't miss out and that epic debate with that. Thanks so much kent the floor is all yours for your opening statement Well, thank you so much. I read about dan in second peter quite a few years ago I'm not put your name in there dan Let's see the bible clearly teaches that god made everything the creation was about 6000 years ago This is what the book says now whether you choose to believe it or not a different story The bible clearly teaches there was a worldwide flood There are over a thousand flood legends been found around the world Something happened to destroy the world with a flood jesus came about 2000 years ago And here we are today all of human history fits into about 6000 years according to the scripture The bible says clearly in the 10 commandments in exodus 20 in six days The lord made heaven and earth the sea and all that in the myth The bible at least is claiming that god made it in six days same thing in exodus 31 In six days the lord made heaven earth. So in the beginning god created the heaven and the earth That's what it says the very first verse. I've chosen to believe that dan obviously chosen not to believe that But we were told in second peter right where i'm going to put your name here down Knowing this first that in there shall come in the last days scoffers working at princeton university I'm sorry walking after their own lust and saying where's the promise of his coming for since the fathers fell asleep All things continue as they were that's uniformitarianism, which i'm sure you'll believe in From the beginning of the creation for this they willingly are ignorant of Willingly ignorant in the hebrew that means dumb on purpose They're willingly ignorant of three things number one that by the word of god the heavens were of old There are three heavens mentioned in the bible the heaven where the birds fly the heaven where the stars are in the heaven where god live Heavens is plural and the earth standing out of the water and in the water Whereby the world that then was being overflowed with water perished the scoffers like you dan are ignorant of the flood It was completely over the world was overflowed by water There's enough water out there in the oceans right now to cover the earth 8800 feet deep Mile and a half everywhere if you smoothed out the planet The bible says at the end of the flood In song 104 the mountains arose the valley sank down and the water rushed off The ocean basins are still here from but no as flood we cover all that on my video series Okay, and they're also ignorant that of the day of judgment that is coming So the scoffers we were warned would come in the last days would be ignorant of the creation Ignorant of the flood and ignorant of the coming judgment of god Creation the flood and the end of the world. I cover in my books in series. I've done Jesus believed in Noah He said in the matthew 24 Matthew 24 verse 36 that that day and hour knoweth no man know not the angels But as in the days of Noah were so also were the coming of the son of man You can read the scriptures for yourself But your your position is just fine. You wouldn't take any position you want and you can teach whatever you want However, you need to understand You are clearly going against what Jesus said And i'm sure you know that Look at Isaiah talks about the waters of Noah As is the waters of Noah so have I sworn that the waters of Noah should no more go over the earth So god talking to Isaiah believed in Noah by faith Noah was warned of god in Hebrews 11 and he prepared an ark The bible clearly says he prepared an ark so There was jesus said that the creation of adam was the beginning mark 10 6 Matthew 19 4 And so this guy on national pornographic says no human being has ever seen a died live dinosaur You can't possibly know such a thing. I believe dinosaurs always lived with man They were created in the six days with everything else. Noah took them on the ark probably babies And so adam must have seen dinosaurs. Look at we cover this on my video number I didn't get all my video series. Okay So you mentioned I don't have a doctor. This is what's called an ad hominem attack dan Um, I have three earned in one honorary doctor, and I'm welcome to I don't insist Do I ever insist anybody call me doctor? Never here's my staff right here in front of me. You can call me whatever you want call me bubba Call me how you now I'll challenge you to the stand I'll give you $500 if you will have me come in by skype and teach one hour in your class at Rector at red goes university. I'll pay you 500 bucks to let me answer questions and talk to the students If they don't interrupt too much. I want an hour and explain to the students the creation view You're making fun of the bible at taxpayer expense. I think well, I get a chance to defend it just a little bit But the creation was 6000 years ago And then there was a flood before the flood came according to the bible At least the people live to be 900 years old and there are hundreds I think I don't know how many legends now nearly a thousand legends have been found Of a time when man used to live to be a thousand is called the golden age All the ancient people talked about this time. Oh, yeah, man used to live to be a thousand And you can call them all stupid if you'd like, but they did have legends about this There must be a reason for some kind of legend like that John one In the beginning was the word and the word was with God and the word was God That jesus is claiming to be God all things were made by him The word was made flesh and dwelt among apologize for my voice I've been talking a lot the last couple days It's been hot here And jesus created claims that he created everything Jesus is God almighty in the flesh and jesus said have you not read that he which made them at the beginning Made them male and female the bible clearly teaches that the world started off with two people adam and eve says it again in mark 10 6 so I'm gonna go through some of your objections real quickly here My position is that the flood story is exactly true You certainly can build a boat that big and you're worried about flexing and stuff. I cover this Apparently, I haven't seen my video But Noah's ark many people think had what's called a moon pole a lot of large ships have that It's a hole in the floor that goes with a wall up on the inside And when you go over a wave the water can go up and down inside the moon pole Which relieves the stress on a long ship acts like a giant piston to pump fresh air in and out And is a good source of water if the whole world was fresh water during Noah's flood Which I believe it was and it slowly has become saltier since the flood That's not a problem They would have a water a fresh water supply an air circulation supply and stress relief for a big wooden boat I also believe that the Noah's ark has been found in turkey right where the bible says it landed mountains of ararat Not on a mountain in the mountains if the water is receding It's unlikely for it to land on a mountain Just like it's hard to bring your knee up under a sponge floating in your bathtub and get it to land on your knee It'll float off to one side So the bible is nested be the ark is nested between some mountains in the mountains of ararat It's been pretty thoroughly documented the turkish government has a visitor center there And the boat was about 515 feet long which would be 300 egyptian cubits Based on the egyptian cubit elbow to fingertip. So I do believe the story is true. I believe uh, it would be I would be I would be wrong almost criminal to use tax dollars To turn students away from believing the bible when this country was founded by people who believed the bible and people who they weren't All christian they certainly weren't all fundamental baptist like me, but you're saying there was a heat problem well The bible teaches again the scoffers are ignorant of what the creation was like how the earth was in the water and out of The water there was a canopy of ice or water maybe 10 miles up a few inches thick the Hebrews have always taught It was two to three fingers thick a crystalline canopy above the air If today's air which is 60 miles was squeezed down into say 10 miles and covered with a crystalline canopy The whole earth would be like a greenhouse Now when the fountains of the deep break open and the rain begins The canopy is shattered and so the atmosphere is expanding Take a physics class when you when air expands it cools off Hold on to a can of hairspray and hold the button down It'll get freezing cold in your hand when you take compressed air and relieve the pressure The heat is absorbed. So I don't know why you think there's a heat problem there. I don't I've never heard anybody else say that That's a new one for me, but you can believe what you want So you're saying the implications of the arc are impossible human genetics and speciation rates for heaven's sake dan You're complaining about all the people in the world coming from three mating pairs on Noah's arc When you believe all the people in the world came from a rock The earth cooled down had a hard rocky crust and it rained on the rocks for millions of years and the soup came alive That's the evolution theory And you call the bible dumb gee whiz go look in the mirror Okay, so I don't mean to get too hostile here, but you started this okay let's see Speciation rates 150 species of cats for heaven's sake you think all the cats came from a rock Which came from a dot of nothing exploding you guys believe the whole universe fit into a dot smaller than a proton Stop and think what you're saying You couldn't squeeze a bowling ball into a dot smaller than a proton let alone the whole universe certainly not Insane to believe such a thing. I believe the speciation rates are clear out of family that wasn't Time we're at about time Okay Watch my seminar. We're straighten all that stuff out and get you converted With that we will jump into the open conversation folks Want to let you know if it's your first time here at modern day debate We are a neutral platform hosting debates on science religion and politics And we hope you feel welcome no matter what walk of life you are from christian atheist muslim you name it folks We're glad you're here and our guests are linked not only in the description below here on youtube But also in the podcast episode for this debate in case you are listening to this via podcast So with that gentlemen, thanks so much and the floor is all yours So if I can I want to just so first thing i'll say is the debate Not about theology not about not about like any Specific parts of the bible other than genesis and the genesis flood. It's not about the big bang It's not about a biogenesis. So despite all of the wrong stuff related to like Animals evolved from rock we didn't evolve from rocks. That's not how it works But like that's not the topic of the debate. So i'm not going to go down that rabbit hole Here the debate is not about evolution. Um, the debate is about whether the arc was possible So the I mean for me personally the big problem with the arc is is the fact that it's it generates a ton of heat and um The the you you mentioned the the fountains of the deep and that's exactly where walt brown calculated his his numbers from So, um, I guess my my my first question for for kent here is you know Do you accept walt brown's numbers as valid? If not, what's the alternative value for how much heat would have been generated in that event and then Follow-up to that is how much of that heat is going to get dispersed because remember if 99 percent of that heat gets dispersed You're still left with megatons of energy per Per cubic kilometer of ocean right covering the entire planet, right?  That's it's it's flood over land There's going to be erosion and stuff in there. It's not going to be fresh water But that doesn't matter like let's focus on on like the actual nuts and bolts logistics here How much heat is being generated if walt brown is wrong and in either case whether he's right or wrong How does that heat how much of that heat gets? Dis dispersed and how fast so it doesn't destroy the boat because even a few minutes at that temperature is going to destroy the wooden boat So how does that work in practice? Okay, well you talked about four different subjects I'd rather go one topic or question at a time if you'd like but you you mentioned you didn't want to talk about The scripture is being wrong and you want to stick on Noah's Ark, but you started off this thing talking about vaccinations What on earth does that have to do with anything? And if vaccines are safe if vaccines are safe go get one if you're protected Why do I have to get one you're safe man take care take two take take mine? Anyway, that's a different story. So yes evolution does teach It does teach the earth cooled down and was a hard rocky crust and it rained on the rocks for millions of years And turned them into soup and in the soup life got started. You do believe you came from a rock Yes, you do you may be embarrassed to show your students that but I won't be have me on your program make 500 bucks I'll tell the students about evolution coming from a rock as far as the walt brown what he believes on the heat I don't know. I don't care what walt brown believes. He's got some great books I've I've never met him. I've talked to him a couple times on the phone, but I'm not I'm not in his I don't work for him I I said very clearly if you studied any physics when air expands it absorbs heat So you're worried about this one percent, which is a pure fictitious number that you're making up You're creating a straw man I didn't make up that not a heat problem I didn't I didn't make up that number that's from creationists and they're not walt brown is not the only one to identify a heat problem here You also have the rate team that identified a heat problem associated with accelerated nuclear decay Which most creationists agree and I would love to hear if you agree with this that to make the radiometric dating work for a young earth timeline You need accelerated nuclear decay That also is going to generate an immense amount of heat in addition to the heat generated by the flood So in addition to all those those one megaton H bombs you have all the other heat from the accelerated Radioactive decay the rate team themselves and again, it's not me. This is me quoting the rate team the team that Trying to figure this out like it's a genuine young earth research group And they acknowledged that when it comes to the heat from radioactive Accelerated nuclear decay that you need and the direct quote exotic solutions to to prevent that heat from Destroying everything on the planet essentially Which is to say you you need miracles to do it and if you want to invoke miracles for this to work That's fine, but like I want to jump in here just because so far we've talked about a lot of stuff We haven't talked a lot about the arc So the topic is actually whether or not the arc could work In a global flood and so I do want to redirect us to those types of objections Well, I would point out there is enormous historical records from a variety of cultures talking about a family saved in a boat People that have nothing to do with christianity have legends of an arc There are many many hundreds of those that have been discovered Certainly the idea of the earth being destroyed by water Is I think pretty obvious to anybody that studies geology. There was a flood on this planet I live in the middle of lenox alabama in a former gravel pit where we have seven layers of gravel sand clay gravel sand clay These gravel layers that they dug out of here go all the way to north carolina and all the way to north tennessee and south florida There are tens of thousands of square miles of gravel and they are rounded off Indicating they were tumbled like a rock tumbler Noah's flood if Noah was in the arc like the bible says and the water is being pulled up and down with a tidal movement of the As it spins under the moon Right now the tide in pensacola florida where I live for years is up and down about five feet Because it gets interrupted it gets bangs into something called florida But if there were no continents sticking through the water people have studied this is pretty obvious If the earth were completely covered in water and the surface were smoother The uninterrupted tide would become harmonic and it would be a 200 foot tidal change every six hours 12 and a half minutes So if the water came up 200 feet in six hours 12 and a half minutes The water has to be pulled in from the side by moon's gravity at the same speed the earth is turning Well, at my latitude in lenox alabama 31 degrees above the equator. We're turning almost 900 miles an hour toward the east So the water would be rushing into that bump which is constantly being held under the moon The water is rushing in and out of that high tide bump at nearly 900 miles an hour That's going to move lateral movement of the water Noah's arc would just simply be floating on top it wouldn't affect him But the ground underneath would be get layer after layer after layer Of gravel sand clay you need to come take the tour of this place We talk about all that we teach real science here at our science center in lenox alabama at dinosaur adventureland So I think the flood is the only logical explanation for petrified clams like this one that are found on top of mount everest All the mountains in the world have giant petrified clams The largest oyster today in the world is a little less than 14 inches They found over 500 fossilized closed petrified oysters on top of two miles of mountains in peru south america All of them bigger than the world record one of them was 11 feet An 11 foot oyster jumping in one more time Just to in terms of the objections for and against the arc itself rather than All the topics that we've covered including whether or not the flood itself happened Would love to redirect just a bit more All right, well just one more thought and I'll let oh and here's the answer There's a website called baremonology.com baremen is the Hebrew word for kind God said bring them into the ark after their kind And he only had to bring those on land fish didn't have to go They had plenty of water outside and only those with nostrils It means insects don't have to go they could survive on floating log mats and floating carcasses So they've decided there's about 8,000 kinds of animals in the world From those 8,000 basic kinds you could develop millions of species There are 350 recognized breeds of dogs and they probably had a common ancestor called a dog But to get all that from that does not indicate dogs and bananas are related Which is what you believe I'm sure if you go back far enough in time because after all you do a line on paper connecting them So they got to be related So I think the the ark could easily hold 8,000 mating pairs of animals if Noah brought babies That'd be common sense to bring babies of everything They live longer after the floods over to produce more offspring. That's why you're bringing them They're smaller. They got less poop to shovel. They got less food to eat is common sense and Noah was 600 years old He'd be smart enough to figure that out. Don't get big elephants get babies So I believe the story is very reasonable and I believe from 800 8,000 I'm sorry pairs of animals on the ark if that's the right number probably close We could easily generate all the millions of varieties we have today Gotcha jump over to dan So a couple quick corrections that I know are off topic But I want everyone in the audience to just understand The clams were bigger in the past because the atmospheric oxygen was higher in the past So many different types of animals could be larger tens of millions of years ago So that's why for example, um, you have like spiders and other arthropods that much bigger in the past compared to now It's because you have more oxygen so they could more efficiently get oxygen through their bodies So they could sustain more mass um Going back to the flood and the ark and whether this could oh and one more thing It's um, a lot of those so-called clams. They're actually not clams. There's things, uh, called, uh, They're rocky pods. Um, and and they they're slightly different morphology from clams So it's just it's it doesn't matter for what we're talking about with the ark, but it's just a point of order um So going back to the flood I would love to know what the maximum temperature is that a wooden boat could um Like could survive sustainably like what's because we're talking 40 days and 40 nights of rain and then a subsequent flood for you know that lasted in total a year So the the fountains of the deep are going to inject you have the atmosphere supposedly expanding this ice shell And that's going to disperse the heat But as walt brown demonstrated even with dispersing most of that heat you're still left with a lot of heat The calculations vary from somewhere between one and 10,000 degrees celsius to Well over 10,000 degrees celsius. It's like sustained temperature So what I would like to know is one does can't disagree with the implications of this fountains of the deep Idea for in terms of the heat that would have been generated because we're basically talking about global worldwide volcanic eruptions So one do you disagree with that? Um in terms of the also have to talk about the ark, which is what James I promise you because the question is about whether about the arcs of a wooden boat's ability to survive the heat Especially because it would have been not just wood is flammable But also it would have been sealed with things like pitch and animal fat Which also combust so if you have all this heat Why isn't the arc bursting into flames? So what i'm asking kent is what's the temperature that would have been generated? And what is the temperature that a giant wooden boat could survive? And the answer is thousands of degrees celsius and it couldn't survive and that's why the arc couldn't work So i told you i'll bring it back around i promise Okay, well dan you are absolutely correct if the temperature was thousands of degrees celsius the arc would not survive There's the problem. Did you know if he ate an entire elephant you would get a bellyache?  The bible talked about you in second peter chapter three The scoffers would be willingly ignorant of how the word of god by the word of god The heavens were of old now watch this and the earth standing out of the water and in the water There used to be a lot more water in the crust of the earth most of what's now in the oceans was in the crust Submerged most of the land during the creation was most of the earth was land God created it to be inhabited today only three percent of the world is habitable A whole bunch of it's under deserts and ice caps and water etc So what we see today is the devastated results of that know-it's flood And if the fountains of the deep broke open like the bible says and the water came shooting up That's where most of the flood water came from that would allow the crust of the earth to sink in 100 feet or so whatever water was displaced underneath now the earth would speed up just a hair in its spin Which is why most ancient cultures have a 360 day year and today we have 365.2422 So I think the earth sped up a little because of the changing of water under the crust there is still water in the crust of the earth That's why we get 10 million subterranean hot water vents geysers old faithful Most of them under the ocean all along the san andreas fault There is still water squirting up into the bottom of the ocean Which means it has to be coming from lower than that There's no other way to think about it and the water under the crust as the collapse crust collapsed It would squeeze these water pockets. Many of them squirted out at the flood Broke up the earth into plates Let me still have fault lines all over the place and some of them are still squirting out water millions of them Let's just google thermal vents in the ocean or on land like like old faithful geysers, etc So the heat generated would be absorbed by the expanding atmosphere If it went from 10 miles to 60 miles or whatever. We don't know That would absorb it, but you're completely making up numbers.  So okay, so again Came from a rock not true, but like not relevant also So I'm trying to keep this focused on door position here I'm having trouble clarifying it because I've given you a couple of examples of of what creations have said about the heat associated with the flood I don't I don't but I would love to know Well, I would love to know what you think the temperature was during the flood and if you think that having Essentially geysers all over the world appreciably increased the temperature of the planet if like what was the temperature I'm trying I'm trying to get get up what that temperature was fair enough I think it was 72 degrees Fahrenheit It was 72 degrees So the world is just to be clear the world is covered in geysers sufficient to cover the entire planet I cannot hear you what no Oh, I was saying sorry. So the world covered in geysers essentially sufficient more powerful than any geysers that exist on earth today essentially volcanoes but shooting water into the atmosphere And the world was covered in these in these water volcanoes And the temperature stayed 72 degrees Fahrenheit. That's the position I might have got up to 73 and a few spots but about 72. Yeah, okay. Um Okay, I What can I I'm honestly speechless that that would not change the temperature of the planet because we're talking about physics, right? So if we inject a bunch of hot water into the atmosphere, but that doesn't change the temperature of the atmosphere I want to be very clear that that's the position No, I said I didn't say the earth is covered in geysers. There are cracks all over the world today There are fault lines right now squirting out hot water A old faithful guy as an example all along the san Andreas fault that doesn't mean the whole surface of the world is doing that We don't have any here in Lenox, alabama. Come on down. You'll be safe. There's no geysers here The world is huge. Okay, nearly 8,000 miles in diameter nearly 25,000 miles around. It's huge Yes, I believe there were fountains of the deep coming up and the crust of the earth would settle back into the void As the water underneath came up, but you get all kinds of physics going on I need to talk to Walt Brown. I don't know where he gets his numbers from and neither do you But you're making up a number again, if you eat an elephant, you will get a bellyache. I can promise you that does Go ahead Does the crust moving generate heat as well? Because that would have to be much faster than modern plate tectonics and that generates heat from the friction So that also be a source of heat Yeah, they had a they had a earthquake in san francisco in the early 1900s and the earth moved quite a ways And we didn't feel a thing in illinois Didn't like this would have been This would have been a essentially a global earthquake where it would have been the entire crust settling down as the water left from underneath it It would have been much Larger distance than your typical earthquakes today than any earthquakes today And it would have been much more rapid And so would that generate more heat to get the planet above 73 degrees Celsius or would it stay within that nice room temperature range? Well, yeah a few latitudes. I got up to 74, but it was generally 72 Okay, it would have gotten up 74 now. Okay This is so dumb You're arguing about well, I'm trying to establish whether a wooden boat could survive this event Do you have count because white wall brown for all the bad You're trying to say no, you're not you're trying to say a wooden boat couldn't survive a thousand degrees and I agree But you made up the thousand degrees It was Okay, okay, I don't like to say I don't work for wall brown I got no idea what he teaches and I don't care the bible says there was a flood There's a lot of cultures of a flood and I think the idea of the earth being created perfect And then man falling into sin and god judging the world with a flood and then All the animals being on a boat is a lot easier to believe than all the animals coming from a rock That's a lot easier for me to believe that all the animals came from 8 000 pairs of Noah's animals Then to believe it came from a dot of nothing exploding 13.772 billion years ago I think that there is insanely stupid, but go ahead Okay, that's off topic for the for the for the point So, okay, so let's keep going with this because again, I'm trying to figure out the feasibility Right, we're trying to talk about the feasibility of a wooden boat in this environment So, um, I want to I want to keep because I feel like I don't have a good answer on how this heat dispersal works Because like we agree that plate tectonics generates heat. They move very slowly It still generates heat geysers and volcanoes generate heat You're saying the heat would disperse because the atmosphere is expanding by what percentage of volume because we can like do Like physics exists. We can do math on this, right? So by what percentage volume is the atmosphere expanding here? Well, I wasn't there. I don't know. I watched the video when I get to heaven I'm trying to get the message down to you wherever you are at that time, but I think Go ahead. Was it more than 99 percent? Was it more than 99.9 percent? 99.99 percent because we can look at the amount of heat And even if you disperse well over 99 percent of that heat, you're still heating everything to over 1 000 degrees celsius so like you know I'm just asking if you thought through this argument to like actually Check to see if the numbers check out or if we end up expanding the Earth's atmosphere to the point where it ends up So just don't so diffuse to get rid of all that heat that it's actually not even an atmosphere at all really Right how much do we have to expand it? Okay, then you asked if I thought this out. I've never heard this argument from anybody your debate number 248 for me. I've never heard anybody make this argument about the heat being a problem Um, I think the idea do you believe all the animals in the world today have a single common ancestor like a Single cell creature that would be a problem We can James we can talk about that if we want to if we want to move on from the arc I'd be happy to talk about it, but that's not the topic of this debate I would like to move on from the heat because the topic was about the arc I would prefer to stick with the arc whether it be this heat ejection against The arc not being able to take the heat Or something else about the arc. Okay I will I will answer he doesn't know and I don't know and nobody alive today knows what the temperature was But there are stories of an arc. There's certainly a bible talking about an arc. Certainly jesus talked about the arc I've chosen to believe that by faith if you have chosen by faith to believe the heat would be a problem Okay, you can believe that if you'd like you don't know what the heat was you're making up a problem That may or may not exist You don't know that You're a scoffer. You don't want to believe this book for some other reason But the book clearly teaches there was an arc and it's certainly feasible for all the animals And the bible didn't say noah had to bring the animals the bible says they came to him And the bible clearly says in genesis chapter one All of the animals were vegetarian at the beginning After they got off the arc god said noah now you can eat meat And probably the meat eating lion came from a vegetarian lion and that's a minor change compared to a lion coming from a rock I don't think that I think that would be a major change So yes, I believe the bible story is true and all the animals are vegetarian. They came to noah He put them on the arc let's say 8 000 pairs of baby animals are young enough to survive on their own But not reproducing age it there would be a lot less poop to shovel a lot less food And you'd have to go feed them. He just made piles of food. They would go find it We don't feed our cows. We throw out a bale of hay and they find it All the animals would go find the food just put it in piles around the arc So I think the feasibility of the arc with three floors 45 stories 45 feet tall each floor about 15 feet Plenty of room for air circulation And if you had several of these moon pools with the waves going up and down pumping air in and out Not a problem Now the crust of the earth cracking open and water coming up Is what the bible says I see I think that works just fine And I think we see loads of evidence Of the all these layers being formed very rapidly all over the world There are petrified trees standing up running through all the layers that you guys claim are different ages Noah's flood and the arc story is the perfect answer for that one The water going up and down with the tide going up and down 200 feet would mean it's rushing in and out sideways Google experiments in stratification where the guy in colorado did the at the navy A stratification tank and showed that sideways moving water makes 10 or 12 layers at the same time So you can get a fossil on top that's actually older than a fossil at the bottom because they're forming downstream not vertical It's horizontal so the flood story fits fits all the evidence that I can see go ahead Any other objections that you have dan tore the arc So yeah, so I actually do have additional arc objections So we'll move on from the heat problem kent said you know what I believe that this was not a problem because of faith Say fine. Believe whatever you want because of faith. I'm not going to fault anybody for that Let's move on from the heat problem The other big problem that I want that I want to hang out on for a little bit is the feasibility of a wooden boat in terms of its stability And its seaworthiness in a global flood because as I talked about the wyoming was smaller than the arc This is a modern boat. This is built in the early 1900s Um with modern shipbuilding techniques It even had a steam engine to get rid of water that was sneaking through the cracks Even though it was sealed using modern techniques not Ancient techniques which are far less reliable in terms of sealing the hull against leakage. Um The arc was bigger Even with moon pools the arc is going to flex now Kent described this as just bobbing up and down in the waves But that's not entirely what's going to be happening because we've established that the crust essentially collapsed inwards As the result of the water rushing outwards So in addition to the tidal fluctuations and the water rushing outwards creating unpredictable currents You also have what are essentially a bunch of earthquake generated tsunamis tsunamis are not just waves going up and down They're actually water moving, right? So you have water that's like if you watch the videos of of tsunamis when they crash onto land It's not just a wave, right? It's actually a a a A volume of water that is moving from the ocean onto the land. So this is actually water moving its currents It's not just waves bobbing up and down Now this boat because it's so large is going to be subject to different forces at opposite ends No number of moon pools is going to prevent the torsion inflection That is going to be the result of these conflicting forces in this global flood Which again, I want to emphasize are going to be the equivalent of tsunamis more powerful than any earthquake That we have like witnessed in the history of humanity So how is a wooden boat going to survive in that environment when the largest best constructed wooden boat? Modern humans have ever made couldn't deal with a a storm off the coast of new england and not a particularly bad one Okay, very simple The tsunami in japan when I was living in pencecola We happened to be down at the beach with my family when the tsunami hit japan. It was huge We didn't feel a thing in pencecola So when the tsunamis were happening in the world the ark was someplace else That's it. Just the ark was someplace else there was so there was worldwide the crust collapsed in where it's generally The crust of the earth is cracked up. I think everybody agreed with that and the water underneath So where was the ark and where were the earthquakes? Where was the part that cracked inwards? The ark was in the places where the earthquakes weren't I see and that also And that also so and it also hit waves side on rather than front on so you didn't have end over end flexing It was always oriented such that the waves only hit the side so it didn't flex That's a fair question There's been the research on the vessel that they found over there in turkey and said the ark had giant rocks hanging over the Side called drugstones Nozark wasn't designed to go anywhere. It wasn't an ocean going vessel. It was just a float so If you had rocks hanging over the side, I've got pictures here somewhere You need to watch my seminar, but you would see that the problem is solved very simply by hanging What they do this today when stormy weather drop the anchors even if they can't touch bottom Just drop the anchor so they can create drag that will automatically turn you perpendicular to the waves In stormy weather if you have what are called drugstones It'll turn you perpendicular to the waves and you hit them head on instead of side on not a problem at all I got pictures of that in here somewhere, but we're going to so many different topics here Oh, this is just a flood and boat. This is this is only one topic Sure, and you would rather not believe the story than even try to answer any of these questions You're not asking questions. You're stating your point trying to make it look ridiculous And just like I do about y'all came from iraq. I'm sure right from the books. That's what you take Okay, it's a debate. That's the point Well, yeah, we'll make that next time. I'll come to your club. I'll I'll fly to princeton.  I'll debate. I did the would say I appreciate the promotion Yeah I'll do I'll okay So, okay, so let me see if I understand this correctly because these so these stones and I'm can't I really I'm genuinely trying to understand this Because so so these stones they they said they turn the boat so that it's going to hit the waves head on instead of side on Is that correct? That's just google drugstones. DRO GUE the purpose in ask any navy officer Real stormy weather drop the anchors let them drag in the ocean It the wind automatically turns you perpendicular to the waves because you got something Okay, so right so your perpendicular to the waves great. So a boat that's 450 feet long What happens when there is a wave at the bow doesn't really have a bow and a stern But let's pretend it has a front and a back. It doesn't really but let's just you know, just for simplicity to illustrate the point So there's a wave at one end, right? It lifts up that one end, right? Now the other end is going to be down So that's going to cause because it's a wooden boat and would Necessarily would is a flexible material That's largely what makes it such a good building material for Seagulling vessels is that it flexes rather than breaks the problem is to get too big And the flexing over the length of the whole vessel is too much So if a wave lifts up one end of it, it doesn't it's not rigid like a metal ship would be right It's going to flex and you're going to have water is going to be able to get in along the length of that so what i'm what i'm I'm just trying to work out the logistics of how they deal with that because I know I mean is the answer that it does that it doesn't flex because it's a wooden boat wooden boats flex even little ones Well, god told no how to build it. Noah was nearly 600 or 600 years old and went on board I bet he was smarter than you and me put together So we probably got to follow god's instructions But here I found the part of my seminar with my 18,000 slides The turkish government has labeled the spot Noah on gumshoe, which means Noah's big boat five kilometers this way Bible says the ark rested in the mountains plural of error There are four theories about what happened to it. Maybe it rocked. Maybe they took it apart and reused the lumber Maybe it's still on the mountain or maybe it's down in the valley The government of turkey says it's right on the in the sides of mount error rat. There's mount error rat right there And some people say it's on the mountain. I disagree completely. There was a gorge there this uh, right There we go. That's the photograph from life magazine september 5th 1960 They said wow, what is this when they went to analyze it They said this is a wooden boat and the mud flow from the volcano quite always the way the the heat generated Melted the snow created a mud flow mud float around it Wow In 1978 there was an earthquake and whatever the shape was either it it came up or the ground went down It's hard to tell nobody saw it But it's now sticking up out of the ground and that is apparently what's left of Noah's ark right there It is the right shape 515 feet long Ron Wyatt was a good friend of mine. He died But he said the ark has collapsed and splayed out to the side radar scan showed beams and timbers inside Subsurface radar the ark is a collapsed wooden boat from 4 000 years ago It was held together by iron rivets. I'm sure the drogestones here It was three layers of wood like plywood only five inches thick Pretty strong plywood. There's a piece of it right there You can go to Wyatt museum in Tennessee if you want to see all the evidence about it so it had apparently a A Ballast at the bottom to hold it upright so it doesn't roll over filled with rocks That was ripped off and is up near the mountain as the ark slid down Who knows when but it would have this a keel back to that would hold rock but See like technically theoretically not as much Though interesting and we've had that debate before on whether or not the ark is out there somewhere Going back to the feasibility more so of whether or not the ark could work Well, if the ark has been discovered that that answers the feasibility problem Here it is. Yeah, there's a visitor center right there. Go go to turkey and see it So the feasibility his his argument was it couldn't survive the flexing. I'm showing you trying to get to the place Other, uh, I think that's obeying the question fallacy. There it is. These are the drogestones I forget how many they found now 9 000 pound stones with holes in the top Apparently this was to put a rope through their mini ships in the Mediterranean do this today They have rocks hanging over the side if they get in stormy weather drop the rocks And the drogestones create drag which will automatically turn you perpendicular to the waves You need to watch my video number two. I cover all this. So anyway, uh, this guy said, don't you know Hoven if I know his ark had rocks hanging over the boat, it would slow him down He said, oh, where was he going? It wasn't good. There's no place to go. He's just trying to float So I think that that can be the heat is not a problem And the flexing of the boat would not be a problem and hitting waves head on ask anybody's men in a boat That's a lot safer than hitting them sideways And you don't know that there were waves at all where Noah's ark was Wait, you said there were waves You said it bobbed up and down on the waves Well, if there were but you're assuming the waves were like the tsunami in Japan I was at the beach in Pensacola. We didn't get a single wave from that tsunami Well, you explained that earlier when you talked about how how you're in the gulf So that that protects it from from what's going on outside there Plus it's on the other side of the planet. So I bet the people in new york would have been one ocean So it doesn't matter if the earthquake was over here, right? Okay. It wasn't not a global flood Well, if japan had the earthquake on the tsunami, I bet it did. I bet you didn't even feel it in california At a certain distance the waves it actually did it actually did hit california That's it actually it actually did it was weaker at that distance, but it actually was definitely weaker But it certainly didn't affect the people in chili Uh, I think it did uh, I think it did too. I don't I don't know how you can't see this But a disaster in one place does not affect the entire world There are earthquakes going on right now and I can't feel a thing here in linux, alabama global flood A global flood would dissipate the energy even more Whole but it affected the whole world though, right? Like it was a global flood. It was definitely flooded I think there's evidence of worldwide flood. There's a problem on everest Was it was it set like were there like barriers that prevented the waves from over here from getting over there because I mean like Like earthquake like earthquake waves go through the planet and we can record them circulating the planet like multiple times, right? So unless there's something that's going to block the energy it's Going to affect the whole planet Okay, earthquake waves going through the crust of the earth right very different than how it affects the water No offloading in a boat on top of the water.  There's 5000 you're creating a problem that doesn't need to exist If there were waves generated To say that therefore the whole flood story is wrong because you don't have the video to watch Oh, that's how no is arc survived the waves. I don't know but I've chosen to believe it You've chosen to doubt it But I do resent all the taxpayers having to pay your salary while you teach kids to doubt it You ought to go teach in a private school and teach kids to doubt the bible I do want to I do just james I know this off topic, but I do want to address this point because it's a common misconception For evolutionary biology education. We actually don't mention creationism. It never comes up So I'm not at all teaching kids to doubt anything and I shouldn't even call them kids. They're adults. They're students um But no, it doesn't it doesn't come up. Um, it's just it's not Relevant. Um, so it never comes up. We talk about the mechanisms of evolutionary change. We talk about different evolutionary pathways We talk about techniques like how you can figure stuff out. We talk about how molecular phylogenetics works We talk about lots of interesting things But we don't talk about um creationism because it's it's not relevant to the topic in that class It'd be really relevant and like a comparative religion course or something or philosophy course But it's not relevant to evolutionary biology. So it never comes up So I want to make sure that you rest easy knowing that taxpayers. I mean not you but you know taxpayers are actually like not um Paying for me to to tell people that atheism is true because that's not happening But they are paying to take they are paying you to teach them that elephants and bananas have a common answer Okay, back to the you have just maybe a few more minutes on the arc and maybe later We can talk with the taxes and all that I have in front of me the page from the book of josephus written about 2000 years ago at the time of christ He was a historian that worked for the roman army He's talked about they the armenians call the spot the landing place and show the remains of it to this day The flood and the arc are mentioned in uh Barosas the caldean who writes a portion of the vessel still survives in armenia on the mountains The people carry off pieces of the bitumen as talismans Many historians down through the centuries have said oh there was a flood and here's the boat go see it Now you mentioned about the boat being too long waves going up and down Would not be a problem if you had what i called a moon pool It allows the wave to go up and down inside the boat creates a pump for fresh air I don't know that it had this the it was a wooden boat 4400 years ago. It rotted But the bible clearly teaches there was a flood jesus believed in there's 350 flood legends And 70 of the earth today is covered by sedimentary rock. There's rounded gravel worldwide I think the ark has been found There are underwater canyons bigger than grand canyon indicating rapid movement of the water sideways We go back to the ark Okay, well the ark was floating in the ocean and there's enough there's enough water to cover the earth 8 000 feet deep everywhere today So I think it is still there go ahead I James I don't have anything to add. I mean between the heat and the feasibility of a wooden boat I got I I mean none of that was that that was all about how evolution is is a poopy head and it shouldn't be taught Um, I got we can jump into the q&a then I don't want to interrupt you go ahead dan If you had any other thoughts Did you have q&a from the audience there james? That's what I was referring to is basically I mean if we want a one-sentence summary, I mean I don't think we adequately addressed the fact that heat would be generated and destroy a wooden boat Kent says that that's not a problem because he has faith that it's not a problem fair enough But if if we're going if we're going to do this without invoking miracles for how it worked in practice Then that that explanation doesn't work And I don't think the stability of a wooden boat in terms of just wood being a flexible material in something that large It's gonna flex it's gonna leak. It's not going to be seaworthy. I don't think we addressed any of that stuff I'm good to go with the q&a if you are can't I'm ready We'll jump into it want to say thanks everybody for your questions and friendly reminder folks One ask that you'd be your regular friendly selves attacking the arguments ferociously And not attacking the person though And also want to remind you that our guests are linked in the description And that includes if you're listening to this debate via podcast folks We are now trying to get our podcast of each debate out within 12 hours after it happens and so With that we'll jump into q&a bubblegum guns has reminder that all is up for debate and we must I don't know what we must do, but we appreciate that and I think maybe they mean we must debate But area 85 restoration snake says okay as an engineer I can speak with some authority when I say that putting a moon pool in the center of a ship Absolutely doesn't relieve any stresses whatsoever on the ship. This can only weaken the structure I think that's for you Kent Was that a question? He's made a statement. He doesn't believe it'll work Um Many ships have had this you can have a hole on the inside a pipe on the inside that lets the water come up and down And it does relieve the stress if the water doesn't have to up as high the boat can effectively Absorb some of the water up as I got my pictures here somewhere Uh up into the uh into the vessel so okay Uh, he's an engineer therefore. He must be right. I mean come on gee with so uh my dad was an engineer My brother's an engineer. Yeah, so People can disagree on things if they'd like I just said this is one circular This is one possible solution to provide air circulation Relief stress you might have had 20 moon poles. You could have holes Scattered out 20 feet apart all up and down the arc and look they could be small ones even anything to relieve some of the stress And to allow the air circulation and a place to dump your garbage. That's just a it's just a theory I don't know I'll find I'll watch the video when I get to heaven You got it and robert summers. Thanks for your questions that kent. How can you support the arc having? A moon pool seems like let's see a rather ad hoc explanation I I don't know that it had one, but that was if I was building it. I would probably put a bunch of them in there for that same purpose pump fresh air in and out Water circulation they get a fresh water supply. I'm only about 67 years old. I'm smart enough now to figure out I'd build it where the waves come up and automatically fill my watering troughs So I don't have to go around water all them animals. I think that out. I've been oh at 600 figured that out Got you in vandalia 1998. Thanks for your question says for both if the flood happened 4 000 years ago or so Why is there evidence of native americans here? As far back as 8 000 years ago That for me or for him for both Go ahead games or dan Uh, thank you. Um, the answer is because the flood didn't happen A global flood did not happen 4 000 years ago and wipe out every civilization on earth There are lots of civilizations that that we have persistent either archaeological or in some cases as in the case of the Egyptians like physical not pure like phonetic writing but close to writing records um of of you know Clean across where that flood gap should be and and kent earlier mentioned that every civilization has a flood Story associated with it. Um, one notable exception to that is egyptians, which is weird considering they were right next to where this supposedly happened Um, so I do find it notable that egypt, uh, which has a record Back through when the flood would have happened, uh without mentioning it Um, also doesn't have like a flood story in there in their collective mythology Um, despite being subject to floods all the time with denial Um, it just so the answer the answer to the question is we have these records going back more than 4 400 years because the global flood did not happen Well, I disagree. I think the egyptians are well known for their exaggerations like king pharaoh was the king Or he was the pharaoh for 300 years when he was actually king for 25 years They exaggerated everything they built the giant temples for them to live in they wanted He'd be the greatest guy ever So I think you'd be very careful studying if you study history you'll see the egyptians were great at exaggerating I don't think there's any civilization that you could prove Survival was here at the time of that flood 4 400 years ago Some may have had legends that told told about things before the flood They bring the legend with an on board the ark and tell the story There were certainly civilizations here before called adam and eve and up to up to the time of noah But no, I don't see a problem at all. I the native american legends. How did how was this preserved? I'd like to see somebody really a forensic scientist analyze that and prove it was 8 000 years ago I think you'd have a hard time, uh getting more than 4 000 years of proven history anywhere from any place on the earth Reliable proven history, but this is not a debate about the history. Would the is the ark feasible? I think perfectly fine. I think it could handle all the animals. I think it was necessary to survive the flood I think the remains have been found. I think there's 350 legends about it I think I win the debate but go ahead If one teensy follow-up, but I promise this will be super fast james Um, can't you just said that the the ages of I think the pharaohs were exaggerated They said they lived hundreds of years and that's that's obviously an exaggeration How old was noah during the flood? How old was what how old was noah at the time of the flood? According to the bible everybody before the flood lived into the 900s and noah Okay, so it was an it was an exaggeration for the pharaohs back then, but it was but noah was 600. Okay. Thank you Oh, I think that's true. I believe there's certain there's over a thousand legends have been found called the golden age Just google golden age cultures all over the world teach, you know, man used to live to be a thousand What happened, you know reptiles never stopped growing never either do kangaroos or or eavers by the way But for those reptiles, they could be they that was the dinosaurs with adam and eve not millions of years ago no one took them on the ark Thank you very much for your question anthony and thank you both kent and dan for entertaining all these questions This one anthony asks Atheists here and for kent Where is spongebob? They must be a fan of your the spongebob Is it there? Okay. There he is. Okay. Thank you. And then Allen age. Thank you for your question says kent if only If noah only brought babies Why does the ark encounter have adult animals? Does that make the ark encounter from ken ham? false I have not been there. I don't know what he has. I don't work for him. I have no connection to them I appreciate what they do for the lord. We're walking two different paths. They can do what they want But no, I would not if we if we build a noah's ark here, it'll have babies on it So then you also get to see how it really was You got it and azian says how did all the fresh fish? Freshwater fish survive when the oceans mixed with fresh water or vice versa? Did the fish evolve and create different species? Well today, they're a freshwater bass and saltwater bass There are freshwater crocodiles and saltwater crocodiles. There are quite a few varieties of animals that are both fresh and saltwater I believe they had a count. I believe the freshwater and saltwater bass had a common ancestor called a bass I think that changing from a change changing from a freshwater Fish to a saltwater fish is a minor change compared to going from a rock to a fish Very minor change. So there are many animals today that adapt I cover this on my seminar part four lies in the textbooks if you want to get that The uh a friend of mine up here in that north alabama raised had aquariums And he said I wonder if I can take my mollies my fresh water fish and turn them into saltwater fish So he did the math on it to go from fresh water to 3.6 salt ocean saltwater He's Divided it out over 14 days Slowly added salt to the aquarium the fish adapted to it after two weeks 14 days. They were saltwater fish Then he put them back in fresh water and they all died So I don't know that'd be an interesting study Uh to see can all animals a debt maybe some could not maybe some went extinct I think the whole world was fresh water during the flood Obviously all the rivers are running into the ocean and they're bringing with them mineral salts The oceans are gaining salt every day The fact that they're only 3.6 salt today indicates they are not billions of years old They cannot be billions of years old. They would be much saltier do the math on that So I think I don't see a problem at all for the creationist view that you change from fresh water fish and some adapted to salt water Most of the animals in salt water. We don't like it. They have to get some way to get rid of it They got to pee it out or put it out through their eyes and salt salt crystals Most it's a nuisance to most of them Oh, they've got to where they could live without the other way, but whenever it's the water backwards I'm sorry. What no No, it's not work. It's not relevant. Go ahead James You got it and this question. Thank you very much Ballard 827 says Kent No one believes that we evolved from rocks though. They said you've been You've been told this hundreds of times and have never shown a source that says that we believe this Why do you keep saying it? I am sitting right beside a textbook collection probably 200 textbooks biology earth science, etc I show many times in my seminar right from the textbooks the big bang Produced all the planets and all the stars the earth cooled down and developed a hard rocky crust How many have seen me show that right from the textbook? Okay. I want 18 people in my crowded It developed a hard rocky crust and then it rained on the rocks for millions of years and turned them into soup And in the in the oceans the first living organisms appeared I know it's embarrassing to admit it But you guys do believe you came from a rock and you should be really embarrassed And i'm glad to point it out to you. Go ahead Amy Newman with this question comment says midnight after show at my channel and by the way Dapper dyno also has an after show which is linked in the description We will link anybody's after show no matter what side you're on then Amy asked question for kent Would you be able to build a boat that would survive a worldwide flood if you were building it yourself? Well, I don't know Noah was 600 years old I don't know how long it took him to build it, but I I don't think I'm gonna make it to 600 at the rate I'm going I'm gonna have to doubt that If God told me to I would try to do it, but Plus he might have hired all kinds of help We don't know he'd built it by himself might have hired the neighborhood It may they might have left at it. They certainly didn't go on board, but we don't know all those details I think that's a minor problem I'll get some textbooks or enjoy where we came from a rock if you don't believe that but it is exactly what the Oh, I know where it is some in our part one God go ahead Secular pagan mom, thanks for your super sticker of that beautiful unicorn tremendous unicorn And sarah, thanks for your question says Semitic flood stories are more likely due to flood in the area in their specific area 7500 years ago there was Use flood that resulted from an earthquake that created a natural dam that inspired chinese stories of floods I would respond by saying there are many local floods. There's not a question about that happens all the time But why would god tell Noah to build a boat 500 feet long and fill it with animals? If it's a local flood tell him to move Gotcha and this one coming in from do appreciate your question and also dividing word as Or says you also forgot That god the omniscient one was instructing Noah. Who's to say that god? Didn't give no instructions about the ark with a technology even unknown to us Let's see. I don't know if that would be for you dan, or if they were maybe responding to someone else's question earlier I'll just say that if we want to invoke god providing some unknown technology that then we subsequently lost after the flood That's fine, but we can't evaluate that best based on evidence we have today That's a argument based on miracles and divine intervention fine I'm not going to argue against that if you want to believe that Power to you, but we're not going to find physical evidence to be able to back that up Gotcha and this one from robert summers do appreciate it robert this Timely asked kent. Can you answer? Uh, can you give an answer on how much expansion would be needed to dissipate the heat? You are the teacher so you can teach me about that, please Uh, I don't know I could I taught physical science for years I'd probably go back and figure out, you know the thermal expansion how much the heat absorbs You know get a can of hairspray and hold the button down. It'll absorb a lot of heat It'll freeze your hand if you keep going So this is a well studied problem with compression and decompression of air, but I'll see slide number 275 I did find One of the hundreds of references I have biology textbook right here beside me Earth is thought to have formed about 4.6 billion years ago very different from today's earth Here's what it might have looked like the earth began as a hot ball of rock Anybody see that on there? Okay, and then it rained on the rocks for 3.9 billion years ago That cooled enough for water vapor to condense and the earth was experiencing violent rain storms Eventually the accumulated rainfall formed oceans in the oceans 3.5 billion years ago Scientists believe the first living organism appeared Bingo, it came from a rock I win go ahead Gotcha and thank you very much for your question coming in from Dee Watts asked Kent how many different quote-unquote kinds of animals do you think were on the arc? I would be guessing but I would say about 8,000 kinds I covered this a few nights ago on my youtube channel Kent Hovind official That everybody's worried about the species. What about go to the family level? If you go to the class level, you know, you got kingdom phylum class order family genus species I just went to you and look how many orders of cats are there not species. How many orders? It's only like I forget no But I less less than 200 So I could call that up if you'd like but the go watch a couple nights ago youtube channel Kent Hovind official So, yeah, if there would be only about 8,000 kinds of animals, I'm not sure if the biblical word kind Matches our careless lineas classification system, you know kingdom phylum class order family genus species at some levels at some points the word kind might mean Family or class or order But I think a four-year-old can tell you that a dog and a coyote are the same kind of animal And the dog and a banana are not But you guys believe dogs and bananas have a common ancestor right here came from a rock. Look at the text Why in an animal? I didn't write it You should be embarrassed if your textbooks published that We'll give you a chance to respond Diana. We haven't had a lot of questions for you. So I want to give you No, that's fine. That's that's how it goes. It's all good. No, I was going to say You know, you can you can invoke whatever definition of kind you want But the problem is once you get a number that's sufficient to fit in a boat for a year You end up having to invoke Extremely rapid evolutionary processes afterwards. So I mean we're getting skepticism that like Evolution as evolutionary biologists understand it could actually happen, but we're taken to understand that two individuals Can generate over 150 species of cats in the space of the animal species of cats in the span of just a couple hundred years Now keep in mind that most of those species are now extinct So we have lots of speciation followed by a collapse lots of extinction and we're left with what like the 30 50 harbor many cat species There are now now However, you want to slice and dice those numbers you end up in this in this zone where either you have to invoke Hyper evolution to get to extant biodiversity within a couple hundred years after the ark Or you end up with so many individuals that even if they're all Juveniles, they can't reasonably fit on the ark as someone said just the methane alone is going to be toxic It's going to be a major death trap that ark is going to be a death trap is the word someone used And that's exactly true if you just look at the numbers of individuals 8 000 kinds 6 000 individuals plus the eight humans 16 000 individuals plus the humans the methane emissions alone Are going to be prohibitive like and we didn't even talk about that, you know Um, so I mean, okay, you can have ventilation but there's raining So like how much ventilation do you get there are waves you get water now? You're back to the how do you do it the water getting to the boat problem, right? It's it's these problems compound on each other and invoking hyper evolution does not get around it Especially because once you invoke evolution at that rate that I can say great We agree evolutionary processes can do their thing. You think they work faster than I do cool Next up. Thank you very much. I'll give you hyper evolution a quick response I think I was at a seminar one time in a family a lady stood up She said my family has been involved in dog kennels for 100 years grandpa started it my dad now me She said I can play right now We can we could start with a couple of pairs of muts and through selective breeding develop hundreds of varieties of dogs in 100 years Most of the varieties of cats and dogs today, especially the domesticated ones were developed for a particular purpose Like somebody why I don't know developed a chihuahua They wouldn't last 10 minutes out in the woods So most of the dog breeds wouldn't survive if you turn all the dogs loose There's 339 recognized breeds of dogs by the american kennel association. I would guess 200 of them wouldn't survive They would revert back to the more of a generic like a wolf or coyote So I don't know how many animals are on the ark. I'm gonna ask god when I get up there But I think it's gonna be embarrassing for you dan judgment day when god's gonna say you doubted my book over that Gotcha and thank you Askles wager drink. Thank you for this question from Mitchell asked for dan can a cardinal cardinale In parentheses learned to fly by itself. It's a pun. It's a pun if so Given your nonsensical paradigm so I'm not sure what the question is but I but I do want to say I appreciate the pun I do want to say that I appreciate the pun the cardinal card. I like the pun I think so we could spend an hour talking about the evolution of flight and the different times it's happened among vertebrates and invertebrates Um, but I mean the short answer is like yeah flight evolves and we can we more or less know how that happens And it's happened 30 times among vertebrates and fun fact the only ones that are dinosaurs that could fly are modern birds Because pterosaurs not dinosaurs. They're the sister group I like that one that that the only flying birds are the the only flying dinosaurs are the birds that we have today Gotcha, and thank you very much for this question coming under. I'm sorry It's all right. We like it and area 85 restorations is a moon pool does not relieve stress This is not something I quote believe you said I can show you this mathematically. Can you show mathematically that I'm wrong Who was that for that was definitely for you Kent? Well, I think we could probably try it out with a robot in our lake Cut a hole in the bottom well to pipe on have it come up inside If you go and we could do the math and get if we could have a wave generator To generate excellent real certain number of size actual size waves that we could generate and repeat the experiment I bet we could do it. Uh, we should do that. I got a water tank Generate waves have a little wooden ship see how much it bobs up and down with a say a two inch wave And then put a moon pole and see if it does absorb some of the shock I've never We have all kinds of cool stuff at dinosaur denture land. We'll add that to the list Okay, chila put that on the list for the flood demo out here about the grand canyon probably formed in a week too By the way, it's a washed out dam a really big one. You should come see our demo on that. You're gonna love that one Anyway, so yeah, I don't I haven't done the math yet. I could I could count I taught, you know, algebra, geometry, trig and physics. I could probably do that. That's a good one I'll do that And this one coming in from robert summers says kent How do you know that the pharaohs who lived or reigned for 300 years? Weren't in their own golden age as you had mentioned Different cultures have had their golden ages reported on I was just mentioning that the egyptians are well known for exaggeration I don't know. I mean they I Go back and study that and find it's been years since I read about that But they were I think most historians would say the ancient egyptians were well known to exaggerate Gotcha. Yeah, this question Appreciate your question as well. Tyler West asked kent the btu's from thousands of animals and the methane gas build-up With only one window for ventilation would make the the ark a death trap So covered some but we'll give you a chance. Okay. I would like to find out where on earth They got the idea. There was only one window the bible says there'll be he would finish the window in a cubit It only gives one dimension elbow to fingertip. I think it was completely around the ark one big continuous Ventilation spot all the way around The ark was only designed to float. So they're saying it one window Where did you get that not from the bible story? Gotcha. This one from Matthew de martin says go leafs go I don't get it. One of you guys is that like your nickname leaf Okay, next up revelation. I have no idea sports thing revelation said, okay Said kent You criticize the idea of a quote-unquote guru to help someone learn But an effusions for paul describes a teacher as one of the five gifts of christ to the church for growth smart christians Our gifts Not gurus. I'm not sure when that came up I'm not sure what the question is, but yeah, we definitely I love teaching. I that's what our whole place. Here's about Teaching that god's word is true and you're going to face god one day and I want to get everybody ready for that I found another textbook showing how the earth was throughout billions of years ago All the matter in the universe was in a dot smaller than a period on a page That's a crowded dot You got it. Nathan are thanks so much as a more of a comment They say you've convinced me mr. Hoven. Thank you for all of your work And this one coming in from 80 or area 85 restoration says yes the textbook state how the universe and our planet was formed However, including the big bang and planetary formation in the theory of evolution is something You made up kent. He said in reality it has never included these things Well, let's see. I downloaded this last year off the internet Uh the conversation dot com the earth started out as a ball of very very hot liquid The liquid was mostly made of two elements oxygen and silica How about this one a few hundred million years After a few hundred million years the temperature of the earth reached 2000 degrees the melting point of iron and earth's core was formed Earth formed 4.54 billion years ago Let's see and swirling in the waters of the oceans is a bubbling broth of complex chemicals Progress from a complex chemical soup to a living organism is very slow. I think that whole statement is very stupid This well, I think what they were I might have not read it as clearly as I could I think what they were trying to get at is they were trying to say that The big bang and planets like planets forming that those two things don't fall under the umbrella of evolution that they are Distinct hold it good good point, but they are essential For the starting point what evolved? Where did this first animal come from right here textbook in the oceans for 3.5 billion years ago? Scientists believe the first living organisms appeared So the first living organisms appeared in the oceans which came from the hot ball of rock cooling down Yes, you do believe you came from a rock and you're welcome to believe that We think the planets formed from collisions in space and dust rotating around the sun. This is from berserk late university After all that crashing released enormous amounts of heat You want to worry about the heat then The earth was so hot from all these collisions that all the rock melted And the earth was a hot ball of melted rock orbiting the sun How did our planet form from the guardian talks about the earth being a hot I want to jump in the only reason I want to jump in is I think that they were just asking For example, like are there written sources, whether it be the guardian or Berkeley or wherever The sources are that describe planetary formation or the big bang is falling under the umbrella of evolution Well, yeah, that's essential. You have to have something where did matter come from where did time come from where did space come from? You can they want to start with living material if you want to leave god out That's fine, but you don't have a complete theory unless you can play where did matter come from where did space come from Where did energy come from? There's a lot of energy in the world talk about the heat where who heated that up But the textbooks and I show hundreds of here's NASA with a government let's see and no ocean service 3.8 billion years ago the oceans formed And it was 212 degrees Fahrenheit Here's uh from bath university and uh, where was that? I was over there I got to jump to the next question. We got okay, James. Can I just ask you yesterday? It's I promise it's a yes or no question. Can I just ask can't a yes or no question before we move to the next thing if kent is It's a little it's a yes or no question. Is that okay? It's have you have you ever like taken attended a full secular evolution course? Like so, you know what evolutionary biologists actually teach and what the field actually encompasses I attended yes. It's a yes or no just like like a college level evolution course Yes, I attended Illinois Central College in East Peoria, Illinois my first two years and then transferred to a bible college I have the textbooks beside me. I can read was there an evolution course there. Did you take evolutionary biology? I don't know. It wasn't by that name that I recall if I go back and look that's a long man. I'm 68 years old It was a long time. Yeah, sure. So it's not modern. So like not modern. Thank you Hold it. Have have you ever taken a course on the values of communism? That's what they teach in russia and china. Have you taken a course on that? Yes or no Okay Think about it for 10 days. You'll come back and say wow He's right. We go ahead This one coming in from bubblegum guns says kent of dinos were on the boat Where are they now? I think as I cover in my seminar part three all about dinosaurs for two hours They were in the they were in the Garden of Eden with Adam and Eve. They were big lizard lizards Never stopped growing even today. They never stopped growing our tortoise is hundreds some pounds. He's this big turbo. We call it He'll never stop growing Noah took them on the ark probably babies after the flood the conditions were different Lifespans dropped from 900 to 400 to 200 and today hardly anybody makes it to 100 Something was different. So many of the bigger species couldn't survive They didn't live long enough to reach reproducing age is one option And the climate was different. They couldn't survive or people hunted them to extinction There are many legends of people killing dragons. I think it's the same animal The word dinosaur wasn't made up till 1841 by Richard Owen So I think they were uh same animal dragons and people killed off most of them and there probably are some still alive Like in the Congo swamp in Africa A friend of mine was a missionary there for 42 years He said man when I showed my natives there a picture of a what we would call a patosaurus They said oh, that's locally in Bambi. Don't get close. He's not friendly They're still alive in that swamp. They're only 20 feet long But a 20 foot dinosaur still a dinosaur And it's just it's a matt. You need to watch my whole video series. We cover all that dr. Dino.com dr Dino watch video number three. You can watch it all right there online. Okay Next up. Thank you very much for your question. This one from Gear Vash says who has See I don't understand that might be I think I don't want to see how that's related But Robert Summers says so golden age stories confirm the Noah's age But but we can't apply that to the pharaohs. Why the double standard? Well, there are many countries in the world besides Egypt I just point out most historians will say the Egyptians tended to exaggerate that doesn't mean all the other cultures did There are many legends of a golden age Why just google it golden age. Why why would everybody teach this? I think it's because it came from a fact there was a golden age people used to live That they usually say a thousand in the golden age legends, but the bible doesn't have anybody over 969 But I can understand how that would be reasonable Um, if people lived in a perfect environment had a perfect gene code today, everything's degenerating. We're getting more of a genetic load Uh lifespans No, you're not gonna I don't think you're gonna improve it for 200 years ever This one coming in from do appreciate it. Mr. Archaeopteryx says can't why are there no marsupials in europe asia or africa? Since they should have radiated outward from turkey Marsupials like kangaroos, etc are less aggressive than some of many other animals I think they all radiated out from turkey They happened to move toward australia as the oceans were rising from the melting ice caps You need to watch my seminar series But I think they got trapped in australia the water between australia and china and vietnam Is only like 30 to 100 feet deep? I mean if you lowered the oceans 100 feet and the average 12 000 feet Take out what's that way less than 1 of the water freeze that stick it on the poles I think everybody agrees the ice caps were bigger. There's plenty of science evidence ice caps Ice age glaciers came down to kansas city, missouri So if the ice caps were larger the oceans are smaller It would take hundreds of years for that ice to melt back And meanwhile as the ice melts back the ocean levels are rising Meanwhile the animals are dispersing and they ended up trapped in australia by the rising waters That's where the marsupials are could have been someplace else. It happened to be there So I don't think that's a problem With the the oceans have two parts the deep part called the abyss and then the shallow continental shelf And if you lowered the oceans one or two or maybe five percent today Nearly all the continents are connected you could walk anywhere in the world if the continental shelf was exposed Look at look at the coast of florida how shallow the water is out for a hundred miles So I don't think that's a problem marsupials are less aggressive So the more aggressive animals pretend to drive them off We go up every day when I take the tour here and feed the donkeys the the horses and the cows Those little miniature ponies all the other all the other animals are scared stiff of those two little tiny ponies They're more aggressive. So they drive off the cows. The cows are twice their size It's a matter of uh food availability Climate some animals like colder climate some don't polar bears wouldn't survive long in the desert at all So I think they've adapted to their environment. They've been they've been spread out from the Noah's Ark flood But the the minor problems this person is trying to come up with about the dispersion of animals from Noah's Ark Is so minor compared to the dispersion of animals from a rock 4.6 billion years ago Life on earth bloom. There it is primordial soup somehow spark to life live science.com Let me just get in there and say that um as far as as far as marsupials go There's a whole field called biogeography and if you're interested in marsupial history for anyone in the audience You should google a species called the virginia opossum. It's uh a marsupial that lives in north america And um, we've mapped the whole biogeography Biogeographical history of the species it's really cool how we do it. I encourage everybody to google it We actually can reconstruct the history. So just saying we do have an answer to how this stuff works from evolutionary biology It's super cool. It's the field of biogeography Juicy and this one coming in from do appreciate it. Raphael says why show a scallop and call it a clam I don't remember what that's from either of you guys know what that is Me neither question for something. I have no idea, but Ian Chen says jay. Okay Says james has the perfect gene code. Thank you. Ian. That's funny And want to say folks we do appreciate our guests. They have they have busy schedules And we do want to respect the promise we've made in terms of keeping our time limits And so we do want to say thank you so much to our guests Kent hovind as well as dan and want to also mention folks their linked in the description And that includes if you're listening via the modern day debate podcast as this show Will just like all other debates we are working on now getting onto the podcast within 12 hours of the debate happening And so with that want to say thank you so much kent and dan. It's been a true pleasure to have you with us Well, thank you and dan 500 bucks. Let me speak at your class for one hour Not a religion class, but thank you for the offer um after show on the dapper dinosaur's channel If i'll be hanging out over there for anyone wants to join us in just a little bit Thank you james and thank you mr. Hovind Thank you dan and mine's 855 big dino i'm extension 3 i'll take any policy you got You got it and yes indeed. We do have two after shows tonight I'm going to add amy's to the description as well and so i want to say thanks so much everybody I will be back in a moment with a post credit scene on upcoming debates Such as this one on the bottom right of your screen as we have a lot of juicy ones coming up Stick around and i'll be back in just a moment. Thanks everybody be right back Ladies and gentlemen that was a blast want to say thanks everybody for coming by and hanging out And from the reminder as always whether it be in the chat or in the comments afterwards We want to encourage everybody to attack the arguments ferociously as ferociously as you can Instead of the person as we do appreciate the guests and as mentioned last time with our guest matt dillahunty If our guests are for example last time people in the chat were calling matt names and the idea is If people are Trashing the guests such that they're like man I don't really feel welcome here because they seem like they're more into personal attacks than attacking my arguments And that's a small percent folks. I want to let you know that's a really small percent Most of you do a fantastic job of attacking the arguments instead of the person That's 99 of you who do a fantastic job of that But there's this one percent where sometimes they'll attack the person and it's like We don't care if they're a christian an atheist Communist capitals whatever whoever the person is in terms of the speaker We want to say folks. We want to encourage you to attack their arguments Rather than for example last time somebody called matt a um, I don't even want to repeat it or people in some cases tonight Referring to be certain people's mental capacity or things like that. I'm like we're not going to go there Let's not do that. So want to say thank you everybody. Like I said 99.9 percent of you so odds are good that it's you you do a fantastic job of attacking the argument instead of the person We appreciate that and want to say thank you for that as well as want to say hello just to hey Say how are you? I'm stoked to be with you all. I do appreciate you guys. Thanks so much for making it fun here It's always lively in the chat. We appreciate that and good to see you sadani the theist Thanks for coming by as well as noel aguire. Thanks for dropping in and then xm music Thanks for dropping in as well as in gary rc and Thanks so much cori clark for dropping in as well and frank. We're glad you're here. I shall never die Thanks for dropping in and then following the sun. We're glad you were here and then spicy roads glad you were here and then Yep, so just saw somebody calling somebody grifter like folks want to encourage you to attack the arguments instead of the person and so Again, that's 90 nine percent of you do a fantastic job But that is the culture that we are striving for that we are putting at the center of our kind of goal as we move forward and so absolutely important and Mitchell good to see you and yeah, michael, man I don't know what the the deal was tonight, but I love you anyway And uh, I have no idea what the thing was where you I think you thought I like personally took your uh wrench away we about a week ago if you haven't heard folks we Did a reset on all of the moderators no no punitive reasons like it wasn't anything like that It was just to be sure that the new guidelines had been seen by all the moderators And so that's really important to us Guidelines such as one the moderators want to delete anything in terms of people attacking the speakers rather than attacking their arguments As well as of course hate speech We're not going to like let anybody say like the n word in chat Obviously as well as I don't even think the n word hopefully youtube. I think youtube has like the The means to which that like that word would not show up in chat. Don't test it out people but Nonetheless anything like that where people are trying to go into the hate speech stuff. We're not looking for that obviously Defreak glad you made it as well as not evolution. Thanks for dropping in and jeff huff. Is it jeff hugh? It must be jeff I think let me know good to see you David P. Neff as well as Amy Newman. Thanks for coming by and all terrain dude Thanks for dropping in Yeah Kent did it. He did indeed say national pornographic. He said that for a long time And so no that was not a Freudian slip. That's like in all of his uh videos if you watch them I've seen that before and then amad hasam. Thanks for coming by says Let's see Kent why are you not a muslim? We'll have to ask him that next time. That's a juicy question Thanks for coming by amad hasam and ando xd. Thanks for dropping in as well as maryon grand bruth bruhheim. Thanks for dropping in and then Raphael we're glad you're here and then oh did I miss your super chat? Let me know. Let me check. Well here Raphael if I did miss it. Oh, I actually asked your super chat I don't think they knew what I was talking about like I don't know what the scallop and the clan thing was about But if you're really upset about it, uh, we'll you know, if you want to do a super chat next time is just a normal chat Just let me know and I can read that and hopefully the speakers will recognize what your question is then But uh, let's see. Thanks for your super chat as well Ando xd. Thanks for your support says fun debate james. Thanks. See you all next time. Thank you ando xd Appreciate your support And then thanks for your thumbs up slam rn. I agree folks if you haven't yet Hey Hit that thumbs up button as we were excited to continue to host debates and giving everybody A fair shot to make their case on a level playing field. That is very important to us and then Damian story good to see you and John Loki. Glad you were here and then Johnny Webb. Thanks for coming by as well as Free thinker. We're glad you're here. Jacob raw Roinon Fisher pumped you came by and then Yeah, folks. It is so important for us. We have asked the moderators We were striving for full neutrality So we've even asked the moderators if they would not Debate people in chat or try to persuade people in chat of particular views for example And they do a great job. The moderators do a phenomenal job. Yesterday. I saw somebody They actually wanted to put in a super chat Just to say, uh, what's the word I'm looking for? Oh, okay. Yep. So Just got a heads up. So yeah, there are a number of people that have a wrench right now and uh, so I think that someone has access to the account and just modded those people, but here's the thing Mitchell I told you that if you wanted to get a wrench, which I'm taking away right now because they told you you have to go through side show bob For that process and Jesus is lord same thing. You've got a same thing I'm removing your wrench because we are having all the moderators go through this process So I am taking away the wrenches of those people who have somehow strangely gotten a wrench Right now even though I haven't given them a wrench and I'm pretty sure I know who did it and I'm going to talk to that person later but Yeah, so Mitchell the idea that I mean, I'm honestly amazed the idea that I like you're trying to claim that I'm like biased against you is like Seriously, like oh, you're biased against me James and you're trying to like discriminate against me. You took my wrench Um, I don't even know what your position is Frankly, uh, but you know, I get I get it for all the time from well I would say a small percentage from both sides of every every debate almost I get some people who you know, usually the extremists for their position Well, like they'll be the first to jump and say my person's not being treated fairly And michael in this case like it was you think how you're thinking because I took away everybody's wrench Do you think I have something personal against you? I'm seriously I was like serious. I'm just amazed everybody always has a grievance of like i'm being wronged and james You're not doing well not everybody forgive me for saying that folks 99 percent of you are fantastic and I appreciate that But many people out there on twitter for example And then maybe one percent of people here in chat. I see all the time people complaining and just crying and just Oh, like I've been wrong and so and so did this to me and I'm like seriously. This is just terrible Uh, but yeah, so let's see Looking through here to see who has a wrench who shouldn't And yeah folks, I don't know what kind of monkey business you guys are up to And uh, it was not gonna like it's not gonna fly So seriously, you guys should have just gone through the process that all of the other current moderators are doing Um Namely getting their wrench through sycho bob All bob is doing is making sure you've read the guidelines and that you're going to be it you could say that On this channel we have Serious rules you could say in terms of Moderators doing a lot of work and so That's really important for us Is that everybody if you're going to be a moderator, it's like okay, but you got to do the work to do it And so there are like meetings and everything. So I hope you know about that and then uh, jacob roinon fischer I have to be honest. Hey, I love you man. I'm in a good mood, but your chat it looks honestly what you're saying is pathetic You said please next time stop ken from using his logical fallacies and gaslighting That's your guy's job in the debate not the moderators the fact that you think you need the moderator for help This is a neutral channel if your guy can't cut it If you don't think dan did a good enough job such that you think that I need to do it pathetic Seriously, this is a neutral channel. Go cry somewhere else, but I love you seriously I'm like, but I gotta be frank with you because it's like jeez And then let's see arctic plague reminder attack the arguments instead of the person. So Gotta put you on time out and then also les peter guitar Thanks for coming by said I did attack the argument can't lie about reptiles Uh, so the idea of you calling is like saying someone is being dishonest or lying blah blah blah We have already talked about this before and so We've already talked about so and so is so dishonest is like We're not dealing with that if you want to attack their arguments cool But it's honestly it's so cringe that almost everybody who sees somebody who disagrees with them will go Oh, they're so dishonest they're arguing so dishonestly and it's like seriously and it's like I will be honest like it's It's just like gosh attack the arguments people so Glad you're here wolf. Thanks for coming by and I really do appreciate it So thanks so much that I actually made it to a live stream been a while Thanks so much wolf. We're glad you did it's been a while indeed and fox Populize says you have the patience of a saint. Thanks for your kind words fox. Seriously. I appreciate that says last night You said something about donating through venmo, but I missed it I wanted to make sure you guys get my money not youtube. Thank you fox. I am so I didn't know anybody um so two seconds here so, uh I'm just processing because there's so many chats, but long story short fox We do still have venmo if you want to send a super chat that way and it's just modern day debate is our call name on venmo and long story short Basically what's going on here? is it's a way of Cutting out the middleman of youtube for the super chats because youtube takes about a third and then hannah Puts in all caps you give a wrench to jill who attacks the guest speaker Jill I would or hannah anderson I would highly encourage you to Before you make kind of claims like that with like the bold letters and stuff um You might want to like just ask me about it because there are about five or six people who have access to this account and I didn't give jill a wrench tonight so um Please ask me instead of just telling me that I did it because like I said there are about five or six people Who have access to the account? I'm pretty sure I know who did but I'm not going to name the name until I actually have asked them rather than you know, so Please do the same for me and just ask me rather than just saying you gave a wrench to jill Who attacks the guest speaker because that looks like you're trying to smear me is like being unreasonable or something and then Amy Newman good to see you thanks for your heart smile thing and uh, smiley face there and then les peter said Bob got that one is left. Thanks for coming by says do something about the wrenches Yep, we will definitely i'm working on it.  I think you meant your mod. So jeff. Yes. I already mentioned that I'm working on getting to it reading through the chats Pray for me. Glad you made it as well as pancake of destiny Says james. How much dodge company paid you for advertising in this debate? That's funny. I don't know. Do they have dodge ads on the Video and then site shown abs says Amy Newman and frustrated atheists are are ready for the wrench Cool works for me. I'll wrench them up. I'll keep an eye for them and chat here I'm scrolling through slowly, but I'll get there and then Les peter guitar jam highly encourage you. Please don't copy and paste messages and then atheist jr Says james. I'd love to come on again. Thank you james for jumping in and bailing us out and I'm open to it in the future I seriously do appreciate you bailing us out that night and honk honk Thanks for coming by as well as mugen and then it was at Jerome m. Was that the person who? Ma site show bob. I know that you had mentioned.  It's all fair So everybody can do that and then Thanks frank for your support says thanks and liking on the way out So appreciative of that. Seriously. I do appreciate that frank. Thanks for your support and to patsul Thanks to your super chat. Thanks so much for your support says don't forget the twitch and you're right I'm sorry twitch chat. I forgot you guys. I'm so sorry Oh all the drama and the youtube chat up behind but man of mystery 33 33 Thanks for being here with us as well as ozzy and thanks for dropping in and sephron Thanks for dropping in and man and then or is it k of kai of reason Thanks for dropping in and sephron. Good to see you and chacksel and man. Let's see sienna 2002 brook, there you are brooks sparrow and then yeah, i'm pumped though you guys and so Uh chris has a one of those. What is it a furrowed brow and says david neff with a with a wrench Hey, if david goes through and like if david follows the rules as a moderator Yeah, like he can be a moderator now. We asked the moderators not to carry there. You could say What's the word i'm looking for It is we ask everybody to not let their drama or pass battles with other people drag into this chat And so i've never seen david neff do anything wrong So like i said, we'll let anybody be a moderator if they're willing to follow the rules They can be christian. They can be atheist.  Thanks for coming by Says trying to run a community and a manager moderator team is incredibly difficult and stressful tasks. I feel bad for james Thank you for your kind words. Uh, appreciate that and I will get you that. I know you wanted to contact for phil I will do that and then let's see Joll Caviteer, thanks for coming by we were glad you were with us and davos holdos Thanks for your kind words to stay stoic. Thank you. Appreciate that davos Seriously means a lot. Is it davos or davis? Let me know and honk honk good to see you as well as pancake destiny says It's talking about one of the debaters dodging all the time. I'm sure you will get it. Oh, I'm slow I'm I'm let's see dressed in black today in slow So thanks for letting me know about that and anybody got that reference. I don't know, but let's farm Thanks for coming by oh and Cheryl. Okay, let me know. I'm so sorry. Let's see Uh, I'm gonna look for Cheryl as well Please do remind me if you're one of those people that got approved by bop Feel free to tag me and be like, hey, I got approved by so saisho nav And if you can tag saisho nav in the tattoo that helps me that way. I know and I'm like, oh Okay Then I know I should give you a wrench make it be keeper Glad you were here as well as munda skeptical and l oz. Thanks for dropping in and johnny ramirez Thanks for dropping in and then saisho bob if you if you type in the call or the at sign Like the and then you type in S i his name should pop up if you're on a pc if you're if you're not on a laptop And you're on your phone. You're gonna have to type in saisho nav and hope he sees it and Yc fen rear glad you made it as well as Raw nakedness says praise moderated his crew pretty much LMAO I don't know. Maybe I gotta ask him, but Let's see But for real. Yeah, that's the thing is it's like Mitchell the idea of like this personal this accusation of personal persecution like james is persecuting me. He's biased He's he's like trying to come after me Oh, he's a fanboy for you know The athiast or whatever And like I said, there's a small percent from every group that's like james bias And I would admit that I actually do have biases I think that the trick though is like oftentimes when people accuse me of it It's like there's no strong evidence or even in this case. It's just not good evidence at all It's We demodded everybody to do a full reset. And so yeah mc tune is right They require 33 six-hour training sessions But for real our mods like it is actually it's not that much, but it is serious work and so If you want to do it you can but you got to go through the right paths And so Cicero nav says sent list to you. Thanks for handling it. Thanks. Cicero nav And then interspecies says you might already know this But just in case you can demod people going to youtube studio settings community moderators. Thanks for letting me know that and then also Let's see Hannah Anderson Oh the chat moved on me says sorry about that. I didn't know anyone but you had access to your account. Not a big deal No worries about it. Seriously. I'm not mad or anything. I got nothing but love for you Hannah For real.  I get it like jam. Okay, uh, mitchell says Hannah had me d wrenched and it's what was fair mitchell, especially I was like I think mitchell is trolling us. We shouldn't let mitchell get the best of us I think mitchell's seriously trying to get a rise out of us with all this like i'm being persecuted stuff and let's see uh, let's Amazing Bella's Breckenridge. Good to see you and he's shield. Good to see you mc2 and it's funny I was just talking about you with my buddy My boy erin Aka w which is short for Oh, like maybe I shouldn't say his name on here, but My boy, we always used to call him big government erin big government was his name and so I was just talking to uh, we were talking about you and then Let's see and then drome m. So here's the thing frustrated atheist I I mean this in the most gentle loving way But I know that in most cases you'd probably tell people like show me the evidence if you're going to make a claim I need you to show me the evidence of drome having said something bad so like when you see Drome m who's a moderator Having said something that he shouldn't have said or she I don't know what who they are but um If you can like instead of just saying they said something bad If you can say like give me one of the words that they said that was bad or one of the words they used So that I can word search it I can just do a control f and I can search for the word And then I can see it for myself because it's just making an assertion I mean come on frustrated atheist. You probably tell that to people all the time. Like oh I don't believe it. Well, that's what you're doing right now, though So I need you to give me evidence of like Give me one of the words that was in that person's chat Especially if it's a peculiar word like if they happen to use like the phrase Steel cut oats I can search I can do a control f and I can type in steel cut oats And then I hit enter and it'll just show me in the chat where someone said steel cut oats So that helps me it helps substantiate your claim That the person was being inappropriate. So slam or I'm good to see you I'm so sorry to be so hard on you frustrated atheist But I I think is it's like a lot of times people will just like they'll make the assertion And then like they don't realize is like you always call other people out for just making assertions, don't you? And like but you like okay is like can you not do it now then? With love I'm not trying to be I'm sorry frustrated. I probably I've been too I've been too rough on you But I'm making you a mod right now. I saw that you mentioned you've gotten approved And then Cheryl Cheryl you've got it awesome things I don't know who approved Cheryl, but I'm glad they did because I know that sideshow approved them So is somebody else Seriously, if there's someone on the account right now who is giving wrenches to people who shouldn't I know there there's got to be at least five or six because I know that I gave it to Andy to Because there are different projects we're working on on modern day debate and So a number of people have it, but there's there's frankly one culprit. I'm thinking of There's a usual suspect who I'm thinking. I know who it is But I will ask and then we'll find out Gavin Lockhart. Thanks for coming by and then Let's see. Let's farm Says we and we still have Jerome M as a mod. Okay. Can you tell me though? Like if we're not supposed to like Because like just saying that we still have them as a mod. I'm assuming I think just to be sure just like so there's no doubt about it. Can you um It's okay to tell me like that they shouldn't be a mod because sideshow nav hasn't approved them That helps me rather than just saying they are my um Oh, yeah, that's right. Thanks Amy for tagging me appreciate that and then math science glad you're here as well as frustrated atheists Let's see Okay, good. Thanks frustrated atheists for letting me know that it's crystal clear. I get what you're saying. So Jerome M um Jerome M even if you haven't said anything bad you do have to You have to go through the proper channels of sideshow nav approving you um And then perfect one says people have been trying to get you attention Trying to get your attention, but Not inputting your name correctly a mod that is not bob approved keeps timing out another mod Another approved mod. Um, I think I got the person. I'm not sure MC tune says erin is the best he is I'm gonna talk to erin pretty soon MC tune Um, we have so much juicy stuff to talk about from good old minnesota I mean Florida because I know you're there in hot miami the rumor is MC tune similar to myself When it gets really hot out because here in colorado, we've had a heat wave. It's like no joke. It's like the biggest heat streak in 10 years MC tune like myself will just wear a speedo all the time and right now i'm wearing a speedo Uh, so I mean it's quite the site. I'm not in public. So nobody sees it But yeah Resort of course is was de-wrenching everyone your version of the great flood Ha and then brook chava says, how do you how do the supporters join the pre-show with the speakers? um Are you talking about The pre-show this saturday brook because we'll send a zoom link Although are you sure you like i'll double check. I've got a double check Whether did you know if let's see Let me know what you're talking about and then I can try to give you the best answer That I've got and then Mitchell's still complaining. Mitchell is totally trying to troll. We should have never even gone for it And then fox says, thanks again for great night. James. Have a good one and send you some love on venmo Thank you fox for your support frustrated atheists. I've been approved by sejo nav lol Thanks for taking all my guff tonight Sorry frustrated atheists. Let's see I didn't have to put it so I didn't have to needle you so much, but uh, let's see I'm undiskeptical. Thanks for your thumbs up and sejo nav says we can confirm list after debate. I think we're pretty close now And jesus lord says was a thousand degrees. It was close amazing and then Oh Wait Sejo nav says that sharyl has not contacted me so sharyl's not approved So someone lied to me in chat. I can't even remember who it was Thanks for kind words all over says great moderation tonight keeping on topic. Especially appreciate that and That seriously appreciated all over and uh, yeah, I mean it's oftentimes tough because it's like, okay Are they gonna tie this back to the original topic?  Where are you? I'm gonna I'm gonna word search you and then oh, that's right mc tune prefers And I we both were the same style of speedo mesh Sheryl sharyl sharyl says gabin got mocked for a speedo. That's right. Uh, we Sheryl I gotta give you a friendly reminder that You have to go through side show nav Side show nav can send you The list of rules or guidelines for the moderators And that's the only reason i'm asking you to do that. I'm not trying to be hard on you So that's why I took away your wrench and best in show. Thanks for coming by. Glad you made it and then William thanks for coming by as well and then 120 degrees in phoenix today for slam our end. Holy smoke. That's Holy moly. That's really warm. Yeah And what is truth says? Hello, james. Hello. What is truth? And then raw nakedness says james. You made me yawn Um It's probably your own lifestyle that made you yawn. Okay next up I'm teasing seriously. It was a joy. It's all it's a joke of endearment endearing teasing and Ryan steve is good to see you. Thanks for dropping in Jason Henderson. Thanks for dropping in says is it over? It is over. It just happened we are We're just having a party now and i'm i'm i gotta run because i've got a pack and stuff But ny nyc fen rear. Thanks for coming by says have a good night. Thank you friend for your support And reservoirs is only kidding about the great flood really glad you're taking so much care of the channel People sneaking into being mods like they're sneaking. I'll call into the club. That's funny and thank you for your kind words Seriously, that means a lot It's really good Mitchell says james is a future comrade up to that trolling again.  I always like I used to troll my classmates I don't do it as much because I But it was always benevolent, you know, it was meant to be like fun Louis Presciato glad you made it. Oh, give me two seconds. It's it's like 98 degrees in here The twitch chat amazing Let me I'm even in turn my fan on you guys It's 98 degrees Oh Can you hear the fan? Let me know amazing all right I wish I had let's see However, Catwell's right. That was a long tall and long sip of water and then Brian Stevens is right this debate you guys see this debate over here on the far right side of your screen You don't want to miss it. It's going to be epic. So my dear friends, I highly encourage you Oh, excuse me. Did you hear that burp? I didn't mean to You don't want to miss the Saturday's debate. It's going to be tremendous seriously you guys And Garrett, thanks so much for your support. I really do appreciate it I don't know if you're listening Garrett still but seriously appreciate it and But yeah, folks, what do you think? Well, oh, let me talk to you guys about this I want to get your opinion because maybe you're like, I don't know james But I have to let you know we have Fox Fox populi. Thank you for your support said awesome content. Thanks for all your hard work You guys rock from fox populi. Thank you so much for your support fox seriously And you guys might be wondering you might be like, where did that come from james? I didn't see a super chat that said that are you just making up things to flatter yourself Well, let me tell you where it came from folks. Did you know that we have a venmo? So we have a venmo And if you want to send super chats you can Send one via venmo It's all one word modern day debate no hyphens no spaces So I'm saying for the next debate if you want to send a super chat. It would be the same price Let's say you put in two dollars and then you you put your question into the little you know info box A little description box of like what you paid for Uh, you put your question in that space And then the cool thing is so like I said it can be just two dollars. Whatever you want And youtube doesn't get there cut Amazing because I'm serious you guys don't get me wrong. I've got nothing against youtube And I think that I talk pretty positively about youtube because I see I hear sometimes other youtube people Who will say like other streamers who will say all youtube is so bad and like They're not perfect. Don't get me wrong But I I have to say youtube has been pretty good to us.  I think it was million impressions In other words, youtube has shown our videos to 4.4.5 million people I think in just the recommended videos Youtube recommends our channel like crazy and that's how we've been growing. It's one huge way we've been growing And thank you so much for all of you like you're sharing and things like that that absolutely helps But long story short Uh, nonetheless youtube is filthy rich and so That's the one way where it's and then some people I know also have They do have a bone. They have an axe to grind against youtube and I'm like, yeah, you know, it's fine I I'm not in your guys's business if you've got a something against youtube because you maybe they did wrong you I don't know. Um, I'm open to that being a possibility So if you want to send a super chat via our venmo, you can do that now as it's easy folks Like let's say one day you're watching a debate and you're like, oh, maybe I will use Venmo to send my super chat Well, the cool thing is you can and then I'll just have it pop up on my my phone I don't I think I've got I got a turn on notifications It goes to my phone and email and then I can read your question And dirty youtube doesn't get it, you know, so like I said here, I'm looking at my venmo right now I can see the last one from fox popular Thank you so much fox and so isn't that cool though you guys so that's cool and so I think it's neat MC tune thinks it's neat. He says don't knock it till you try it on a hot day. It was a thousand degrees today wood was melting that's funny and Amanda says you are amazing. Thanks for everything you do. Thank you, Amanda for your kind words. Seriously. I appreciate that And that seriously means a lot for real And dan are thanks for coming by good to see you and then interspecies says water asmr That's funny and then spacey roads king kim junghoon versus james. Who is less biased? That's funny men elik m Thanks for coming by says can you say the water was buzzing Amazing and All our cat. Well. Oh, that's right. I have a hold on. I'm almost caught up Uh the chat's moving on me MC tune my boy My twin brother from another mother. I just love him and then jesus's lords is too much communion wine and Let's see MC tune says I can spell that burp.  Thanks for coming by. We're glad you're with us and k fill. Thanks for dropping in as well as brian steven says, let's get 200 likes folks. We can do it two nights in a row We did it last night. We're at 186 Only 14 more likes That's amazing folks for real. We really can get there. So hit that like button What have we got for 300 people watching and I say it every time folks You may have noticed it's like 18 likes. Wow Well, let me tell you this My dear friends allies Those 10 dislikes They're not dislikes. Those are from our 10 australian viewers who have hit like from australia So thank you so much. We appreciate those people. So hey, you know, that's I just encourages me even more and slam our end Good to see you again and uh says and or like hit that like and then hannah anderson thanks as well for saying that and then uh, let's see spicy roads Thanks for coming by says 70 percent of something is worth more than 30 percent of something. I think you're right like It's true. What if youtube was like we takes 50 percent of super chats? That would be like, geez you guys How long good to see you so I want to learn how to build arcs and then Slam our end says wow, that is great. We will all be famous someday. You're funny And I see the laughing the laughing emoticon and then Amazing says slam our end andrew andrew things are coming by just puts the letter d I like your style the andrew short and sweet and then brianz even says so close We are really close 190 is it but yeah folks. We are excited. I will show you something that I've got behind the curtain If we can get to 200 likes seriously, it'll be something new. It's got to be because I've been rearranging my office so there's got to be something new back there, but Yes, I am excited you guys Want to tell you about some cool stuff In particular, I've been moving lately. So I think I mentioned that it's been really busy and We are excited though, uh, basically Sorry, I'm just laughing I'm like it's like I think I'm crazy. Wait. Oh, you know what you might want to do um Thanks so much, Amanda for your support via venmo. Totally appreciate that. I love this that like we can read The three super chat I can read the super chat from venmo. So Amanda said I just wanted to send a super chat via venmo lol. Thank you, Amanda for that support seriously So you can save our super what is it? Where is this thing? Yeah, it's that it's modern day debate. I'm gonna upload the picture. That's overdue. So let me do that right now Very embarrassing guys. I should have already done this But don't worry. We're gonna get there right now as there is we don't have a we don't have the picture on there You might be like james. I don't understand But I guess maybe that's useful because sometimes people know jokes sometimes people are like, hey I can't super chat from my country And so this is kind of cool that like venmo is a little bit easier than paypal, right? In terms of convenience, obviously a super chat is the most convenient thing you can do for super chatting It is a super chat after all But in addition to that Think about this What is more? convenient one paypal two venmo three I don't know what other ways are there to like where you could try to do some sort of super chat type thing um I don't know. I