What is up? My name is Rubidium. Welcome to the Crimson Engine. Today we are testing two different 2x1 LED panels against one another. The first is the industry store, the RE SkyPanel S60 and The other is the Alupo SuperPanel 60. They're the same basic size. They both are able to plug into house power So you don't need a specific generator or two-phase power to run them They both do RGB. The big difference between them is that The RE SkyPanel is the list price is like over 6,000 but you can get them for 5,800 The Lupo on the other hand is a $2,600 light and it does a lot of the things that the SkyPanel does for a fraction of the cost What are the differences between these two lights? I would say that the most significant difference between these two lights is that the SkyPanel You know came out Five or six years ago went on to absolutely dominate the industry become probably the most used light on set But the technology behind it the type of LEDs the controllers the ballasts are all Five or six, maybe even seven year old technology. Whereas the Lupo SuperPanel is a brand new Light that is just being released. So it's obviously taken inspiration from the S60 to try and deliver as much as this does in a smaller cheaper lighter package As you can see the SkyPanel has two ballasts in this large ballast box. It can you can take it off the The light itself and have it on the stand or on the floor It has very fine controls up here. It has a little bit of fan noise and the unit itself is Around 40 45 pounds depending on what yoke you have and how you set it up. So If I take this out it takes, you know a larger person to hold It's not something that you could easily rig overhead and have down because of its weight It's Really well made. It's incredibly Resilient, I mean the the time has tested these lights and found them to last a really long time But it does limit how you can use this light where you can put it How you can light things with it because like I said putting them overhead is putting suspending 4550 pounds. You really need a pretty significant rig The Lupo on the other hand Loop on the other hand I can hold with one arm. It's less than 20 pounds It's a very easy to Manipulate easy to light overhead. It has a similar yoke You don't need a really beefy light stand to put it on it has two ballasts that can be attached To the unit itself They have this kind of hydra light cable that comes out and plugs into one AC the fans on it are a lot quieter probably the biggest difference for Location filmmakers is that both of these ballasts can be replaced by a V-Map battery these Panels screw off you put a V-Map battery plate that the ball so sells and you can run this thing For a pretty long time without cables at all Remotely that is a lot harder to do with a sky panel. In fact, it's an impossible to do with the sky panel You need a different like block battery that weighs even more than the ballast on the ground and then you have You know brings a whole bunch of different issues so weight-wise I feel like the Lupo has a clear advantage Time will tell whether or not these last as long as the sky panels. They're made out of plastic not out of aluminium but the sky panel does need all that extra steel to hold up the weight of it and deal with the heat of it Whereas there's the Lupo with newer LEDs cooler LEDs is able to give a comparable Light with much less weight much less heat much less noise. So the real key question is how bright are these lights? So when we went and metered these at one meter or three feet, this is what we found the sky panel and super panel are both around the same brightness at 5600 at 3200 you get a little more brightness Maybe about 20% more brightness out of the Lupo super panel when you move into the Pure colors you're getting about twice the brightness out of the sky panel. So 14 versus 800 these are all in Lux 3100 versus 1800 and 30 versus 17 It's interesting to see how the pure red is about half the brightness in both the panels of the other two colors I guess that's to do with How difficult it is to make red LEDs? however, when you add the Super panel 60 duo color, which is not RGB to this suddenly you get a much more directed source But much much brighter five times brighter 33,000 lux and it remains about the same brightness at 3200 both these allow units allow you to control it with DMX Both in and out. I didn't test that. It's not really my area of expertise And I think most independent filmmakers will be just using the units piecemeal back when I reviewed the red helium 4k versus the C 200 what I found was that 90% of the features of the red helium Maybe except for resolution and maybe half a stop of dynamic range are in the C 200 raw It's a lot easier a camera to use the C 200 and the red was five or six times the price now You're unlikely to go out and buy five C 200 instead of buying a red, but that's not quite true of lights It's incredibly useful to have more than less lights So to be able to buy two of these for the price of one of the RS sky panels is You know for me not even a question for an independent filmmaker You're able to do far more setups you have far more light with two lighter smaller Potentially battery-powered lights than you are with one brighter Single source our key light here today is the other Lupo Super panel 60. It is a dual color Not an RGB and it is even less. It's maybe $1,800 Retail now. It's also a big soft source, but it is in much much brighter than both of these lights We needed it at 1 meter daylight at 30,000 lux So you can for the price of this one light get an RGB light for when you need color effects and a Super bright 2x1 Source for the same price as the sky panel. So you can basically get two lights That outperform any individual feature of the sky panel for the same price as the sky panel That's not to say the sky panel is a bad light It's definitely proven itself as an industry standard and it's what a lot of people expect to see on set But we've had this conversation a lot on this channel hire a camera or a lens or a light because that's what the client expects is really You know leaving a lot of money on the table and kind of taking the easy way out my personal preference is to Get the best tool for the job at the lowest price and then educate your client or your producer or your People about why this is better Why the choice you've made is the best for the job don't leave don't leave money on the table. Don't feel pressured into Talking about how beautiful the emperor's clothes are if you feel like you have a better way So that is my look at the Irish sky panel as 60 versus the Lupo super panel 60 We're here at Maccom in Van Nuys in the Los Angeles area They have both of these units available to rent and to buy if you're in this area And you're curious about one of these lights definitely click the link in the description and come and check them out Thank you very much for Maccom for letting us film in their showroom. I'll be back next week We're at NAB checking at everything that's coming out in LED cameras lenses filters and focus technology So I'll also be updating kind of stories on Instagram. So check that out and I'll see you next time


Now, that we have most of the distributions we know, we have written them compactly and put them as an exponential family which has a very compact CPMF or PDF representation. Now let us start looking into the data itself. How to infer the parameters that we are associated in these distributions ok. So, for that if you have to get this underlying parameters ok, data is fine, but how this how it does that data should satisfy certain properties or the way that data is generated has to be done in some particular way that is what we are going to now study in sampling. So, when I say sampling, it is about the data points. If you let us say there is a black box which is generating data, you do not know what is the underlying distribution according to which it is generating data, you just ask it to give one data point it give that is like a sampling for you got one sample. Like that you can ask more samples and that whole process is called sampling ok.  Now, for time being forget about this underlying distribution and all data is collected in various form for various purposes right and nowadays especially when there is a large population and you want to understand something about this population, but you cannot go and talk everybody you may only talk to small fraction and you could just imagine like ok you go and talking to them and collecting information that itself can be thought as sampling process ok. Now, let us see one way to look into all this is like a I am going to let us say let us say x is a random variable which denotes the score obtained by a particular a student in this IE 605, x is that random variable and now all of your realizations of that random variable ok. I can see what is the score obtained by you what is the score obtained by you like that that is that I can think of realization of that random variable. If I got like about 60 students are in this class, if I got the score of the 60 students that I can think of 60 samples of this random variable x ok. So, similarly let us think we as a country we are so many people. Let us look into one particular issue like health status of V Indians what is the health status of Indians that is like one value let us say some health has some number which is going to be denoted by x. Now, all of us are the realization of that all of us kind of like based on like our health value like let us say we assuming that like we have some inherent properties like we as Indians which is going to govern some medical condition maybe like all of us are manifestation of that medical condition right which shows up in like like maybe we can go at each individual ones and ask that. Extending this argument suppose let us say this is the classic examples of polls we get all the states polls, national level polls everywhere right and depending on something maybe let us say all Indians have some tendencies to make I mean we have our own way of making opinions about what to do which party to consider and all and during this polls when people I do all this opinion polls you have seen right like they cannot go and ask everybody that is a massive process that election commission will do. They will only go and talk to certain people that is like a sampling process instead of going and asking everybody they are only going to possibly ask a certain fraction of the people feeling that they are like a representative sample of the whole population ok. Now, here we can see that x is we can think of polling x is like a random variable which is going to denote what which party you are going to vote then I cannot then all of us are like a realizations of that. Now, you can just think of these arguments like suppose there is a new car in the market and all of us have something about like to buy it or not. Now, what the company who is launching that car want to know that whether that brand new car will be how much it will be accepted in the market. So, they cannot go and ask everybody they will only go and ask maybe certain fraction of the population only collect certain samples. So, the point here is like we can just imagine that all of us are like samples when we are looking into the big population and that population is like a realization. What we want to do is we cannot go and ask everything we will be only sampling certain fraction. Now, the question here now comes is how to do better sampling ok. So, let us take this voting issue itself when the election commission conducts voting everybody is going and waiting like assume that mostly all the populations are voting. But now you are doing an opinion poll you do not have that much of resources going and asking everybody that is a massive work you are only going to ask certain fraction. Now, how to choose that fraction itself that is a question right. So, that whatever that fraction tells that is actually going to represent the actual outcome. Now, now with this motivation the question is how to do better sampling and now on that front we are going to refer to one important term called random sampling. So, that it result in an unbiased result. So, what is unbiased we will make it precise what is the mathematical meaning of unbiased I mean we use the word biased unbiased very frequently right. When something is not favor we will say ok that guy is biased like he is not thinking the way I want, but we will make it precise what we mean by unbiased. Now, we are going to say that the random variables x1, x2 up to xn these are called random samples of an of a population f of x. Now, you see that I am using the word population for f of x, f of x is actually a pdf, but now I am calling it as a population if they are IID with common distribution f of x. So, simply random samples of size n from population f of x that means, they are IID samples drawn from distribution f of x and here distribution f of x when I say it could be probability mass function or probability density function depending on you are dealing with a discrete case or continuous case is that fine and now if you have one particular sample let us say you have obtained n samples x1, x2, xn and if they are indeed random sample coming from population f of x then what we know the joint distribution of them should be written as the product of their marginal pdf right. So, this is the definition we have said already this is just I am using independence here and identically distribution is coming because they are all following the same distribution. So, the same distribution the common distribution sometimes I am also now henceforth calling it as a population ok. Now, when I am doing the sampling I have to be using words with and without replacements. So, what is with and without replacement in the with replacement after you do a sampling the sample outcome whatever that you have seen this will be put back before the next sample is drawn randomly and each sample comes from a new fresh experiment like if you put it back all the possibilities are now there when you want to do the experiment again all the possible outcomes are there. So, that is why when I put it back it looks like it is coming from a fresh experiment and when I do sampling with replacement they will give IID samples. On the contrast if you are going to do without replacement. So, what I will do is after sampling the sample is not put back. So, your sampling outcomes get restricted when you do experiment again y equals to yeah. So, let us say you have this samples x 1, x 2 up to x n and from this you got y 1, y 2, y n using this relation. This is your new sample yeah because you have this let us say this is coming from some underlying distribution. Now, when you do y equals to f y this will induce another distribution on y right and all this new samples they are also coming from this distribution only right, but yes now you have to say that these samples are coming from this population ok. So, the population is always what is the PDMF of PMF you are looking into ok. Now, when you are going to do sampling with replacement it can give identical samples, but need not be independent ok. So, let us quickly look into some example. Let us say x is some random variable which is taking 6 value sorry from that is this experiment is throw of a die which is going to give you 6 outcomes right. Let us say I am going to repeat this experiment 10 times when I did first time x 1 let us say I got a value phi ok what is the probability of getting phi 1 by 6 because all the things are there. Now, phi I got I took that phi. So, that dies that the same dies I again used to get the second value and let us say I got a value 4 what is this probability this is also 1 by 6. So, I am going to use the same dies and again and again. Now, let us now say that x equal equals to phi I got now I remove that phase phi. Now, my dies is consisting only of phi faces and that phi is removed. Now, when I got x equals to 4 what is the probability of getting 4? 1 by 5 right. Now, this is the difference. Now, when I get this is let us say this is like a with replacement and now the when I am doing with replacement PMF is always 1 by 6 that is uniform, but now I did sorry this is with replacement and now when I do without replacement for this need not this is this is let us say T this is this and this is equals to I this need not be 1 by 6. If you have removed something which have that faces whatever you observed you have not considered again then this need not be all the time 1 by 6. So, that is what we said sampling with replacement this results in IID identical distributions all the time, but if you do sampling without replacement that need not that is no more going to be identically distributed ok. One thing you need to notice is when we are going to do sampling with replacement also it is not necessary that it is always going to be IID. In some cases you can you may happen that it may be not independent because if you are not going to perform the experiment in an independent fashion that could be dependency there ok. So, you have to be that is what we careful whenever you are doing the sampling you are doing sampling with or without replacement and what going forward we will always assume that we are going to do sampling with replacement all the time. So, that we always get IID samples is the distinction with and without sampling clear yeah maybe we should say without. So, when we do ok let us read this sampling without replacement can give identical samples. See this statement is little ambiguous let me see what I wanted to say here. See sampling with replacement is definitely going to be give identical samples sorry identically distribution because the distribution remains the same. But now whether it is going to be independent or not depends on the way you construct your experiment. If you are ensuring independence that is true then it is not only identically distributed this is also going to be independent samples. Now I am just trying to like this is I was just trying to highlight the fact here that even if you do with replacement it may do is to identical the underlying distribution can remain identical, but it may not be remain independent if you are going to bring in some dependency there ok. Yeah. So, if I do without that statement breaks, but let us say let us read it in this fashion only, but it is just like the experiments are not done in identically fashion ok. Even if you do replacement, but if you do not do identically sorry if you do not do experiments in an independent fashion IID things may not remain. So, that is what what now we are going to follow henceforth is when I am whenever I am saying I am doing a random sampling I mean is it is with replacement and also it is with done independently. So, that I get IID samples ok. Now, now ok you have samples you have random samples next question is what you are going to do with that? Now with this sample you are actually trying to extract some information right. Now you want to get some summary of this and whenever we are trying to do summary basically we are looking into some function of this T, some function of the samples which we are going to denote it as T. Now let us say I am up put some function on the samples and I got a value y usually this we got by processing this data sample that is called statistic. Notice that here your x 1 to x n now you are summarizing them by getting one random variable y which were through some function T that is called statistic and whatever the distribution of resultant y that is called sampling distribution of y. Now what are the possible operations I can do you give to any operations you want if you have n samples this T function can be anything. But we will you focus on some often used statistics one is simple take the average of all the samples you have and this is called sample mean. Another thing you do something more you first compute sample mean subtract it from the samples and then square them and divided by anything you want like maybe let us say n minus 1. This we are going to call it as sample variance and denoted by s square and the square root of this sample variance we are going to call it as some standard deviation. Highlighting this because these are the most common statistics we are going to use sample mean sample variance and sample standard deviation. The realized values of this sample mean sample variance x we are going to denote it by small letters x bar s square and s. So, notice that here all I am just representing the samples as random variables not the particular realizations. But when you plug in the particular realization whatever the value you got you are going to ok fine let us see is this sample mean here x bar is a random quantity yes right because that is gotten by averaging random variables. So, this x bar can take some particular value x bar small x bar and this s square is also random variable whatever the realization it can take we are going to denote and similarly s r can also take some particular small value realization we are going to denote it like s. Now let us look into some of the properties of this sample mean statistics and sample variance we have. Let us say this x 1, x 2, x 1 they are random samples coming from a population with mean mu and variance sigma square. The expected value of this sample mean is always going to be the underlying mean value of that population. So, now let us say why is that. So, x bar is nothing, but this quantity you should take the expectation of this this is nothing, but average of this expectation is this step correct from this to this why linearity operation and now expectation of xi is all mu and if I add mu n times and divide by n this is going to be simply mu. Now similarly you can also compute the variance of this sample mean actually it is always easier to compute variance thinking this as a covariance like we already discussed that variance of x is nothing, but covariance of that random variable with itself if you just use this and expand you will and after doing some simplification and using the fact that these are all IID samples you will see that this is sigma square by n ok. Now let us look into the next one sample variance. If you look into the sample variance and again compute its expected value this needs to be done certain manipulation because x bar here is nothing, but average of. So, x bar here is nothing, but xi by n right. So, if you plug in that appropriately you will see that and whatever the definition we will get we are going to see that this value is exactly equals to sigma square. So, notice that if I if you people noticed when I took sample mean I divided by n, but when I took sample variance I did not divided by n even though I added n terms here I divided it by n minus 1 only when I did that n minus 1 you will see that expected value is going to be sigma square had I not divided it by n this would have not been sigma square this will be some extra factor would have come here. So, now the definition is whenever expected value of this sample mean is mu that is the underlying mean value this statistics x bar is called unbiased estimator of mu. Notice that now I am calling x bar as an estimator and whenever this expectation of x bar is mu we are calling it as unbiased estimator. And similarly expectation of sample variance is also sigma square and in this case the statistics x square is called unbiased estimator of your variance. So, sample mean and sample variance they are the estimators for mean and variance further they are unbiased ok. So, let us stop here.


News and overview sources include top newspapers, sage business cases, and IBIS world. These sources will help you get a basic understanding of the industries, companies, customers, and trends around your case topic. First, top newspapers include The New York Times, The Wall Street Journal, The Washington Post, and The Financial Times. BC offers students free subscriptions to these newspapers and you can set up topic alerts and gain access to specialist newsletters and even games. Go to BC Libraries, Research Guides, General Guides, Current Major Newspapers Digital Subscriptions. Here is a search for Adidas as an example. Sage Business Cases is a collection of case studies covering entrepreneurship, human resource management, international business, marketing, operations management, accounting, economics, and more. To get to Sage cases, go to BC Libraries, Databases, Sage Business Cases. Here we will search for Adidas and apply filters for publication date. We can now download and review Nike and Adidas, a rivalry made in heaven. Lastly, we have IBIS World, which provides market research reports covering thousands of industries in the United States at the national and state level and in several countries across the world. It also includes business environment profiles, SWOT analyses or strengths, weaknesses, opportunities, and threats, and supply chain information. To find IBIS World, we go to Boston College Libraries, Databases, IBIS World. In this example, we'll look up Global Footwear Manufacturing. These sources will help you get going on your initial research. In the next video, we will discuss legal information specifically using Nexus Uni.


Good morning friends. I am Purva and today I will help you with the following question. Show that the vector i cap plus j cap plus k cap is equally inclined to the axis O x, O y and O z. Let us now begin with the solution. Now we denote i cap plus j cap plus k cap by vector a. So let vector a is equal to i cap plus j cap plus k cap. Then we have mod of vector a is equal to under root of 1 square plus 1 square plus 1 square and this is equal to under root of 1 plus 1 plus 1 which is equal to root 3. So we have got mod of vector a is equal to root 3. Now the unit vector in the direction of vector a that is n cap is given by vector a upon mod of vector a and we have this is equal to now vector a is equal to i cap plus j cap plus k cap upon mod of vector a is equal to root 3. So we have root 3 and this is further equal to 1 upon root 3 i cap plus 1 upon root 3 j cap plus 1 upon root 3 k cap. So we have got n cap is equal to 1 upon root 3 i cap plus 1 upon root 3 j cap plus 1 upon root 3 k cap. Now the direction cosines of this vector are 1 upon root 3 comma 1 upon root 3 comma 1 upon root 3. Now the direction cosines are given by cos alpha cos beta cos gamma. So we have that is cos alpha is equal to 1 upon root 3 cos beta is equal to 1 upon root 3 and cos gamma is equal to 1 upon root 3. Now we can clearly see that cos alpha is equal to cos beta is equal to cos gamma. So we have this implies cos alpha is equal to cos beta is equal to cos gamma and this implies alpha is equal to beta is equal to gamma. Now since all the three angles have come out to be equal. So we have this implies the vector is equally inclined. Thus we write our answer as the vector i cap plus j cap plus k cap is equally inclined to the axis o x o y and o z. Hope you have understood the solution. Bye and take care.


You know, when you watch cable news, it's usually like one topic. And prior to the pandemic, it was all election. It was all 45 and post COVID. It was all COVID, all COVID all the time. And since the murder of George Floyd, it's all George Floyd all the time. And I'm seeing more and more video representation of unarmed African-American men killed by policemen. And although I think it's really important that we know about this, it's really disturbing to just watch this unending stream of snuff films of black men dying live on TV. And I'm really, it makes me angry and, you know, and I just don't see white people dying like this on TV. And I, you know, and, yeah, I'm largely, you know, when I look at TV, I'm angry. I have to step away.  I get angry. I've been crying. It's a really hard time to be a young black man in America.   And, but, I mean, under all that anger is hope because I feel like somehow it's a little different this time. So, yeah. I think it's, I had a, I talked to my good friend, Danetta, this morning, so all the time, is I had a little panic attack yesterday, another one, another and another and another. As now the rhetoric has changed to this time, it will be different. This time we're really making some headway. This time change will be, and I was like feeling that, like, yes, with will, with sustained will and absolutely fricking focus, we can actually drive past this for once in our history, our really troubled history as Americans. And then it occurred to me, oh no, we have been here exactly here before. It was called post-Civil War Reconstruction. It was called post-68. We were in that place where we were sure things were different. We were positive we would not go back to that place where there was no light or no hope and many people were outside of the system of privilege and bounty. And we've actually been exactly where we are right now. We've been here before. And if in a year we emerge and we're feeling like we've been heard as black artists, as black artists, as brown artists, as people of color, as indigenous artists, we feel like we've been heard. We're getting some progress.  That's what's happening.  And so I had, I mean, I literally was like, oh no, oh no. How do we actually not go back to post reconstruction Jim Crow? How do we not exit our late 60s social justice movement that was ushered in by Rosa Parks, who wasn't waiting for somebody to join her on the back of the bus? How do we and then end up in the 80s with trickle down economics? How do we not do that this time around? And I don't know the answer except that, oh my God, the amount of sustained will that it's going to take is enormous. Yeah, for the longest time I've been thinking, really hoping and wishing that we had a transformative president who could project empathy. But now I'm thinking that maybe 45 is just the right person for this because he's going to incite, he's gonna push. And if we had, if Hillary was in office, I think there would be this message from above, a message from the White House of somebody who cared. We got somebody who doesn't really care and he's actually inciting it and he's like pouring gasoline on it. So I feel like that's what's different. There's nobody to say it's gonna be okay, it's gonna be okay. I just watched a video where he was like at a rally saying, spoofing, I can't breathe. I just, I thought it was some kind of meme but I looked it up and it was actually him like spoofing, I can't breathe. It was in February, it was pre George Floyd, but still.  And I think maybe that's what's different. Yeah, we've got an arsonist in the White House. What, he's actually gonna set the whole thing on fire. I don't know, all I need to do is like blow on it a little bit. That's what I need to do. He's actually setting the whole thing on fire. Yeah, I mean, and how do we, what is what happens? What do these ashes look like and how do we rise from the ashes or what's the new landscape that we're gonna plant? And we need everybody on board. I've been saying all hands on deck y'all and don't be afraid, I was in a conference last week where, you know, black artists were invited to speak truth to power and it was like an interminable amount of silence in that room because that room was populated with people who run things, right?  And the silence was so heartbreaking. And it's my silence too, that we're like, oh gosh, I can take this moment to speak truth to power and then never work again. Never be able to make a living in the profession that is where you find comfort and joy. And that we are just, it's, what does it take for me? Speaking just for me, what does it take for me? To be okay with standing by myself in a space, you know, with not moving forward to say the right things, to say the things that matter, to call folks out and forward, even if I'm there by myself. How do we do, like, how do we do that? I love the quote, I was thinking of Rosa Parks today, it's Grace Lee Boggs who said, each of us needs to discover and exercise the power within us that enabled Rosa Parks to choose not to go to the back of the bus without waiting to see if others would join her. And that's where we are.  And I'm saying that to myself, I'm saying it, I have to keep saying it, it's like, just go forward, your heart is beating, your heart is beating, but we gotta occupy that space, even if nobody else will. James, I think of you, you have these, you occupy spaces nobody else dares to. You do that as a writer, as a conceiver of worlds, I mean, places that are really painful. Like, you ask us to stand inside of other people's shoes and you've really forced that as an idea.  I really appreciate you for that. Yeah, thank you for that. It's funny, because literally, let's say, tomorrow, live streaming Disposal Woman, which was the show that I did in 2005, which was about, it was a solo piece and it was right after Amitabh Diallo was shot by 41 bullets, 19 hitting his body. And I was really just, really just angry. I got and stopped by the police and I'm just like, I wanted to do something and I did this piece, Disposal Woman, and it talked about various ways that men that look like me have been disposable. And this was 2005 and I was exploring the phenomenon of unarmed black men being killed by policemen, fully expecting this to be a phenomenon that would end. And it has only grown. And when Tamal and I, we did Three Fists, which was certainly inspired by Disposal Woman, where we put people into spaces that black people, specifically black men occupy. I made a huge discovery.  And it was like, and I realized that, maybe it's a fallacy, but I mean, being a black man, I'm uncomfortable a lot of times. I go in the store, I'm uncomfortable. I just deal with it. But I had white people come up to me like they were uncomfortable and couldn't get out of it. And Tamal had devised these ways where if people were uncomfortable, we would just push them deeper into the experience to have them stay engaged with it. And the hope was that it wasn't like sadistic, but it was the hope was to be, to force or to foster real empathy, you know? And you really can't be that empathetic if you don't really know what's going on with other people, but that's the kind of work I'm really interested in. And thank you for mentioning that. But it's so, I'm finding it more and more difficult to get it shown, you know? Because it's... Yeah, I mean, I think one of the things that is really incredible to me about three-fifths was, this was also funny. I was just telling this story not that long ago that people got to choose if they would have the, they could either, they were greeted at the front by someone who was blind and could, and they could say, and she said, what are you black or are you white? And she would mark their forehead with either a black grease pin or a white grease pin because it would shape your experience in supremacy land. So supremacy land, first of all, it's called supremacy land and it's a carnival where you celebrate all things white and supreme. And I was like, we had a debate on this, I think, James. I was like, no one's going to choose to be black. Who would do that? And the amount of white folks that chose to be black and then they were upset that they didn't have, they didn't get to do some stuff. And I was like... They got less money and less access. That's exactly what happens. You don't get to do some stuff when you're black. And I thought, it was like, yes, this is the point. It's like, you get, you go into this experience called supremacy land, which is also called America.  And then a lot of the black folks were like, oh, me, why? I know what happens to supremacy land and they got to do all of the things. Money and everything, we're able to see everything. So yeah. More money.  See me and try to erase all the stories you've been told about this skin.  It was a real challenge. We had about 10, 15 boats and each one was fun.  One of which was like skipping stones and you would have to tell, you have to say which one is not true and they're all true. And it's funny, I was listening on the news today, this guy got shot by a policeman and it was a situation that escalated from literally, he was riding with his bright lights on and he did not dim them when the police passed.   It's like kind of reminding people that, you know and in a fun way, but it got in, you know, we were really interested in having this information, you know, live inside of people and to see the horrible nature of our history. And it's still, I mean, this guy, I mean, George Floyd, but it was a $20 bill, you know. It's these- $20 bill.  It's a $20 bill. But also if you, like, this is a fraudulent $20 bill. How many fraudulent institutions that make money are there? With real money, you know, $20, that's crazy.  It's not funny, James. It's absurd. It is absolutely heartbreaking and absurd. And I think that's what it's been. That's what's been so like, I don't know. I'm just like, wow, you know. What is, what will it take? And then we just like, okay, well, let's just start doing, you know, just start doing because we don't know what it will take. Yeah, what it would take. And I mean, it was a time when, at least in a situation like this, people can gather in a black box theater with their knees touching and experience something that could be helpful to process the experience. But that is a year away or more from now. So an artist are now charged with figuring out like, well, how do we, what do we do now? What do we do now? In the absence of theaters as we know them. And I wonder if they're ever gonna come back. I mean, like, Tamela, you do work outside of theater and all of a sudden that's like, everybody's like doing work outside of theater.  So it's a real, you know, it's a real series of decisions. And yeah. James, I don't think I ever asked you this question. I don't know if this is, and maybe it's a different answer now than it was when we first met. But why do you do theater? You were making a lot of money before you decided to do this. No, I was, I've worked at Winners in the World. I was on vacation when 9-11 hit and when that hit, I had always been like this pipe dream artist.  But I was working at Winners in the World, I was making six figures. It was 9-11 and I was on vacation due back on the 12th. And when that happened, I was like, I got nothing to lose. Because I've always been this guy that like starving artist was a phrase that was in my mind.  I'm kind of selfish like that. So, but when 9-11 hit, everything shifted. And I felt like I got a second chance.  And I was no longer, I decided I was not gonna be a pipe dream artist. I was gonna do stuff. And I did, and I didn't go to school. So I didn't know what can't be done. And I'm like, I'm so grateful for that. Cause I got a feeling they tell you in school, when you got your MFA, your first play doesn't get done. It doesn't get toured. You don't get a New York Times review. It just doesn't happen. You know, I did, all of that happened. And it's not because I'm exceptional. I think a lot of largely it's because I embrace ignorance that benefits me. Like I don't know what I can't do. Therefore I'm going to try. Like I came to Tambola and I met her and I'm like, I want to do this piece. And it's going to be, we're going to take over 3LD and call it supremacy land. Like it was crazy, crazy ambitious. But there's, there's ignorance, you know, that and having done it with 23 actors, 22 video projectors, 30 collaborators, five theatrical spaces, looking back on it now. I don't know how we did it. You know, it was really We didn't know we couldn't do it, but we knew that we had to do it. Literally, I'm like, every night I would go home and it would just be like, oh God. But, and I don't know that I'd do it again. Certainly not without money, but I think, you know, but the answer to your question is like ignorance. I'm like, I'm really, I'm really, I covet and embrace ignorance that benefits me. You know, like cause if I don't know, I can't do it. I'll try it and I might fail. And that's okay, but I'll learn something from it. But I don't, I don't like the whole notion of somebody teaching me what I can't do.  You are not. Yeah, you will not be put in a box of any sort.  Where's the hammer? I'm pretty pissed right now. Right, what's the hammer? What, what, what hammer do you want to bring now? I don't, you know, I'm like, I'm kind of torn, you know, cause I get, and you probably heard this as well. There's this whole notion that performing trauma is inflicting trauma.  There's literally at a biologically measurable level trauma in my bloodstream that can be measured. It's been discovered that trauma can be passed on from traumatic events. And the event that they choose to use is the Holocaust and they've traced it to Jewish people who are alive now and they can see that trauma. So I'm sure that the trauma of 400 years of slavery and black codes and Jim Crow and red line, all that stuff is in my body and in the body of other people who look like me, but studies won't be done because if they discovered that then reparations is the next step. So what do we do then? So it kind of annoys me when people seem to be like concerned about trauma. I mean, and I get it. I mean, not trauma for trauma's sake. I'm not trying to do Texas chainsaw, mask or history, but I mean, literally our history is really, you know, charged with atrocities that are largely unimaginable and they continue. And I don't have a problem like mining and that's grist for my mill. And I think one of the reasons why I'm in a position where I do a piece and then people are like, okay, well, you did that. Well, you know, and I did, I got a creative capital grant and I got a chance to sit with several theaters. And I told them about, I was telling them about supremacy land at three fifths and all of these are household name theaters.   You know, never to be heard from again. And I get it. I get it, you know, but I'm not really interested in theater that makes you feel comfortable. I'm interested in theater that can elicit change. And I'm not saying that I'm that powerful that I can elicit change, but I can as a theater artist, you know, when I collaborate with incredible directors like Tamela, we can put people in situations where they will at least go, hmm, you know, for a moment. I'm thinking about George Ford's family and I'm from Houston and him being laid to rest and unexpected thing here that somebody had to lose their son and their father and their brother that they had to make a sacrifice so that we can learn a little bit. And it's so sad that black bodies keep being sacrificed and we don't learn enough to actually move the needle. And it is just devastating to me. And I did not expect to come and be like smart and quippy today. Sorry, but this very moment, somebody saying an internal goodbye to someone that they love and that is so hard. That is so impossible. When I saw the video, I was thinking about the, I mean, I think part of it is like we, images like that should be shown.  It's just, the pain is unimaginable. And the policemen's face was identical to the faces in the book without sanctuary where there were groups of white people pointing up to a lynched body and these white people were unafraid to be photographed.   And is it, because I don't ever remember seeing the moment except for John F. Kennedy, a moment of a white person dying live on TV or on TV. It's blurred or they cut away or because it's too much. And the thing is like, black bodies, it's okay to show the actual death, the actual snuff film. It's like, it's okay. It's not okay. It's, I mean, that's not okay to do it, you know? I'm like, and for whatever reason now with this George Floyd thing, it's the floodgates have opened. Every time I turn on TV, I see yet another police video. And I saw one today where they had the body cam and they had the image of the guy who was, he was clearly dead.  Until this moment because of COVID and this sort of like meeting point where the whole world is in the same, in one of the same situations at least, that we could sustain, we, me, could I could sustain an idea that if this place doesn't work, this America, I'll go somewhere else. There is nowhere to go. And so perhaps what's happening, I don't know, is that we're all recognizing there's nowhere to go. We can't jump ship. There's nothing, there's nothing else out there except for the ground that we stand on and that we have to actually just go and make it better. And it is not incumbent just on me, my body, my experience to make that better that folks have to take their hands out of their pocket. Yes. And get off our pants. Yeah, absolutely, absolutely. And you were saying that this may be the same and it may be the same, it may be below over. I don't think so, because I've never seen so many white people marching and protesting and saying Black Lives Matter and talking about racism, you know? Because it, I feel like for the majority of my life and I'm old, so. But I feel like racism in America has been a Black problem. And it's clearly not, it's an American problem and we're starting to shift to that, to like, okay, well, because white people are now talking about racism. And I've always thought that rich people don't need to talk about money and white people don't need to talk about race. Why bother? I got it, we got it.  But white people are talking about race and racism and, you know, and I'm being bombarded by, you know, these images and emails from all these theater and art organizations saying that we're down with the cause and, you know, and all of that, which I've never experienced before.  Whatever, what's something, and I've never, I mean, maybe I haven't followed the news closely enough, but I mean, defunding the police departments is now like a thing, you know, it's something to consider. You know, it's like- I don't even understand what they're talking about. I feel like it's a- I'm not really clear either, like, but I mean, I gotta be honest. I'm like, if something happened to me, I would think really long and hard before I called the police, because the last time I called the police was not a good scene. What happened last time? Yeah, you should tell- Yes, please tell that to me. Oh, Frank, you were there. You- Yeah. I live with my husband who happens to be a white man and I bought a townhouse in Jersey City from my other life when I was working at Windows in the world and I was able to keep it. Thank God.  The alarm goes off and I see this man of color, very fair, sliding down the flu of my house, you know, the chimney and going away. And I'm like, we're looking around to see what happened. He broke the window. I don't know what else happened. So let me call the police because I have insurance and I'm like, I don't, you know, I pay insurance, they can replace the window and the pipe and everything. Anyway, the guy who broke the window ended up coming back around to the house and he was talking to my husband and I came out there and I was talking to him and he was a young black man and he was bleeding, you know?  We got him paper towels and stuff like that. We were talking. And I forgot that I called the police and I have a SUV, which is tall. And we're standing there talking and all of a sudden this tiny little policeman, he could like five, five, he appeared gun drawn and he just like appeared out of nowhere. Gun drawn, pointed it at me and the other man of color who broke into the house. And immediately we had to get on the floor immediately. My husband, who happened to be white was standing next to him and immediately became an ally.  Two people of color, you must have did it. Get on the floor. My husband was like, this man, he owns the house. He's pointing the gun at me, telling me to get on the floor and I was thinking, I don't have any ID because I'm not pajamas. And I thought about going in the house but I figured if I opened up that door, of course I would be going in to get my AK-47 to kill him and that would give him a reason to fear for his life and kill me.  And the guy who broke into the house was clearly more versed than I was because he laid down, splayed.   My husband could go in there and get my ID. I couldn't. I had to stand there at gunpoint. And anyway, it de-escalated finally. And I asked him, why did you come out with your gun? Cause I called the police and I told them it is not an emergency. This is largely for insurance purposes. And why did you point it at me and not him? How come he didn't have to get on the ground? And he was just like, you know, he didn't have anything to say. And the funny thing was, although my husband, it's clearly not a racist. He didn't, you know, you don't understand how racism works, but he was shocked and shook by the event. And I was just like, whatever. I mean, if I was going to put this on a graph, I would say that's probably what would happen, you know? I'm tall, I'm perceived by a lot of people as big and I'm dark-skinned, big dark-skinned man, of course. I am the adversary. But I mean, after that, it took my husband a long time to get over it. I don't know if he's over it yet, but I mean, but that was a situation where I called the police because, you know, and now just thinking about, you know, calling the police, I'm like, I don't know how you do it correctly.  And all too often things escalate from this guy in New Jersey was shot dead because he didn't dim his lights. George Floyd was shot dead because of a $20, fake $20 bill.  And I mean, I don't think my story is unique. I'm like, I'm really grateful that I lived through it. And like I said, I think every black man and probably woman who's gotten to the age of 30 has their police story. It's unfortunate, but it's true. It's a world we live in. And I mean, for real, for real, I don't know that I would call the police again.  You gotta do a police report. You gotta have the insurance company, right? I can go to the police headquarters and do a police report with my husband in tow. Like, you know, but I was telling Tamela, a friend of mine, she may be watching now. I was like, this heartbreaking story.  And they love that dog.   Like, how do I keep my husband safe?   And I don't know that white people realize it, that we have to, this is what we have to do, you know, to stay alive. And it's tiring to say the least, you know. And it's, I mean, she told me that I almost cried because it's just so sad that we have to go to these lengths. And this is in her own neighborhood. And, you know, it makes perfect sense to me. Yeah, a mod operate, right? You mean it's- Yeah, yeah. In his own neighborhood.  You know, it's just, yeah, we are, this is the thing to, you know, and it's the why I love the theater. It's an effort to be in charge of my own story. You know, it's an effort to put forward the image that I feel in me, the destiny that I feel in me, the one that I was born with that hasn't been socialized out of me or mitigated through or subjugated. How to tell that story to myself, to the people who look like me and then to the world that doesn't look like me to foster an empathetic connection, right? I love for the world to not have to be segregated by these concepts of color or gender or whatever the things are that help us put each other in boxes so we think we can understand them because we can just label the boxes. You know, how do we erase those boxes? How do we just erase it? Yeah. I try often to, you know, to inflict humor on it. Like when I was working at windows in the world, I wore a suit, I wore a three-piece suit. That looked good. I got on the elevator with this white woman and she literally clutched her bag. And I was like, and I clutched mine. I was like, and she looked at me and I think she realized how ridiculous it was. I mean, we're alone in the elevator, it's a big elevator, but I'm like, I mean, I could hear her clutch. It was like, clutch, and I'm like, clutch.  Right, what are other people saying? Well, you know, it's a situation we are all in now that forces us to look at existential questions. If not now, when will we ever do it? I think we do listen perhaps a bit more careful than before, I think the reaction to the killing of George Floyd is related to that. And there is nobody knows what is the moment of change or not that we talk to people around the world and we hear stories from Chile, Guillermo Calderón, the same police that was out shooting us and was trying to protect us. We can't really make sense out of it. They stopped, they said there was a march of a women's day for one million and a half women. Three days later, the government shut everything down. They asked for a change of constitution and it's confusing. And so I think there's a great, great injustice around the world. And I think what's heartbreaking is that America should be an exception. It should be different. It was the new land, the terrestrial paradise. It was the nearer neighborhood, the ideas to create a new world, that is not bound by old European class structures, boiled or dictators. And it's heartbreaking to see that perhaps the civil war never ended. It's just a break in between and what will come out of it. So how did you both experience the time of COVID, the time of being, how long have you been in your apartments and where are you now? I've been here, what are we on, like 83 days or something like that? I've been here since the Broadway theater shut down. And we took it seriously. My husband works for a pharmaceutical company and I have some health concerns. And so we locked ourselves then. And I have not been anywhere. I can't ride my bike. And I ride my bike and I ride my bike and I ride it all the way back home and do not stop. So, you know, and then all of my, all of my protesting has been with my keyboard and with my pocket book and with whatever platforms or levels of, you know, sort of windows that I can open in any, any, any way, but also with really practical things. Like, like how do we, you know, how to just exposing folks to the things that keep me moving? Cause I think the thing that we're going to need is we're going to need some fuel that keeps this thing going and asking questions. Like what, you know, you know, what are you, what, what are we afraid of that? That's it. COVID's been a perfect storm. I remember when it first, you know, first hit and I will hear this phrase over and over again that we should shelter in place and, you know, stay home. And immediately I thought, I'm like, I've never seen myself as a person of privilege, but I mean, right now, I mean, I have a home that's safe. My husband and I are compatible. But, you know, all too often I hear people who have means and people of privilege say shelter, shelter at home, you know, and stay safe. And a lot of people's homes are not safe.  Is that safe, you know? So it's, it feels weird to be, you know, in this position of privilege in that I have a, I have a home and I'm safe and I have a vehicle and I can go out, I put my mask on and my gloves and I go shopping and I do all of that stuff. And I've been really religious about, you know, doing the mask and gloves when I go out. And initially when I, when it's first hit and I was driving through and playing field is, it used to be, I don't know, I don't know what the percentage is, probably 50, 50 black, white. And now it's like a high influx of Latinos and black and some whites. Latino population is pretty much masking gloves. White people are masking gloves, but I went through black neighborhood and, you know, people were like, you know, shaking hands and it was, it just broke my heart. I mean, this was pre Idris Elbow.  I don't know where that came from. Oh my God. I can guess. But Idris Elbow got it. So it's like, okay, well, you're good. But now I'm seeing everybody in the supermarket, everybody's got the, you know, the mask and it's very surreal, you know, just going out. Cause in my house, I look out the window, I see birds and trees. When I go out, you know, and I'm in the community, it turns into a science fiction film with two pandemics, the political one and the racial one. And I wonder, Frank, and I know you don't speak for all white people or do you speak for all white people? I forgot. Who do you speak for? Some white people? Cause I have a question. But I'm like, what is the role? What is the role for white people right now? What, what, what, what, what is the role for white people right now in this, in this racial pandemic? As you see it. And I know you're not, you know, the spokesman. Yeah. And that's a good, good, good question. Master Wallace, I think he used that old image, you know, the, the fish and water, you know, that the fish doesn't know what water is. Cause it's in it. It doesn't even know, it doesn't know what air is. It doesn't know what's a forest. Maybe it doesn't even know what's, you know, earth and under the, and I think, yeah. I think for us, not easy to say, but yeah, for us, the white people in a way that is to understand what we perhaps move in is similar. We just do not see it. We are not aware of it. We might be thinking about it. We might know about it. We have read about it. We saw a movie and a great play. But what does it feel like when you experience it?  And I do think, James, what you said with the image, you know, the images, the endless repeating of images, you know, does it really, really help? What do we remember? We see an image and we remember, then we see the image again, then we remember the image, then we see an image again, we see, remember the second we have more and more removed after 10 times, you remember, the ninth image you saw before and not the experience, not the whole life that's been, we don't meditate on what theater does. And that's why I believe theater is there. They're good, you know, to create a complex story. And Susan Sontag wrote so beautifully on the suffering of others where she says, you know, images of war. And this is a war, I think one could say. What do they, what are the images of the paintings of Michelangelo, the civil Spanish civil war, the Holocaust images? What do they really tell us?  No, you don't, you know, by what we see now is that. And it perhaps even takes us away, numbs us and we have to really be able to be in the moment and the present also see a whole story, a whole life, a whole situation that there is a system over hundreds of years and that it's not, you know, just something died now in the moment and we have to fix it right now. It's a very long thing and it's not an app can do it. You don't go to therapy or go to a fitness studio. No, you know, there are structures in place, forms that have been created before us and we are called upon to change those forms to make them work better. We have to be part of the struggle for liberty and for freedom and we are maybe not enough. We haven't done enough. We haven't listened enough. We haven't seen enough, a little bit blind and a lot of blindness. And I think this is the role is to really, you know, to see the world how it really is and not how we think it is or wish it would be so good in time to see how is it really and that's what I think. Yeah, James Baldwin wrote, you know, the artist's job is to correct the delusion, you know, then put forward the possibility. It's almost like in these times, the reality is so intense.  But I'm just, I keep going back to the fact that, you know, why is it okay to show these snuff films?  Cause the ones that come to mind, it's like they blur it.  They got blurred. And now there's this time where it's okay to show to the Floyd family and the rest of the world, the exact moment when this guy dies and it's okay. And they didn't blur it.    Have you? As you say, maybe the Kennedy assassination is the only one that comes to mind that's been prominently kind of a no. And it looks like we're, you know, like we're a, George Floyd, you know, it's $20 bill. And this guy in Jersey, and I don't know his name was because he didn't dim this lights.  Like, you know, it's literally like, I have this whole notion of then I did, we did a little bit of it in three fifths where I feel like sometimes my actual skin is weaponized. Like, just my darkness, you know, is a weapon and it is fearful enough for me to get killed. And I had this like reoccurring fantasy, like if I got out of my car and I was buck naked, would I still be fearful or would I be more fearful? You know, and we did a shoot where we had these beautiful black dancers, nude, performing, getting shot by and falling. And it is literally, I really feel like there's something there, like my skin is weaponized, you know?   So there's no envy, you know? But I'm like, I'm tired, I'm tired.  Why do we have to do this, you know? And I mean, the answer is because, well, if you wanna live, you know, you gotta do what you gotta do. I was thinking about, Frank, something that you said, and it's just been like noodling in my head about the kind of like, whatever, how the sort of foundation of America. And I was thinking, all right, we were, at some point we couldn't, like we as the world couldn't imagine what it would be to live without the rule of kings. And so some folks crossed the ocean to be like, we're gonna imagine a new place that is without the rule of kings. But then what always happens is you've been a victim and then you can't wait to perpetuate power on the other. And so actually from the beginning, the country has always been, you know, we just crossed the ocean, some folks, not my folks, crossed the ocean going, I'm gonna seek freedom. And then in seeking freedom, subjugated the people to whom the land already belonged, and then retold the story about who those people were. Right? And then we put them in movies, cowboys in Indian movies and the cowboy with the big hat and the John Wayne and shooting the bad guys that were helping, that were postponing progress. And then, and so like the slavery was like inevitable, right? It's inevitable. It's like, of course, we're gonna bring some other folks here for whom this land is not their home. And we're gonna make them work for us so that we can have the dream that we left an entire continent to have, not thinking that you left a continent to have a dream that is a dream that every single human on this planet actually has. And so just examining the idea of the American dream is like foundational to this moment. From the moment we started, we've actually been transgressing our own possibility as humans who can share the planet. So I don't even know where we began.  It's like, why do we need that? Why do we need that, you know?  But I mean, it's like, but it's like in order for me to feel good about myself, I have to put somebody else down. And I'm like, it's, I mean, I think that's the change that I would really like to see happen. If, you know, it's very Pollyanna, very like hold my hand and sing Kumbaya. But I mean, like to look at like, why do we need, why do we need someone to look down on? I was in Europe and people looked at me and like they thought I was from Africa. And they're like, ooh. And I said, I'm from America. They're like, oh, okay, cool.  So everybody's got this, you know. At the beginning of the COVID crisis, all of the violence that was being perpetrated on, you know, Asian-Americans here in New York City and their teenagers of color who are like, you know, committing violent acts to Asian folks on the street. And what does that come from?  The moment that you can get on top of another human, you're like, boom. But that is being taught to, taught. How do we take that out of the lesson that in order to have, that doesn't mean that someone else has to have not. That there's infinite space. There is abundance. There is enough for everybody. It's not a fiction. We just have not internalized that truth. I don't have anything else to say. Well, it's sort of my question for you. You mentioned the panic attack. Do you feel that the George Floyd murders and decision put an additional burden of you in that lockdown that you felt that is one more layer of this unhealthy situation? We are not being, not going out, not being able to talk, touch people. That some of us don't have to experience. I think if this is like, we all have like skeletons in our closet and it just like, you know, George Floyd sort of like the door, like there's one too many skeletons in the door opened. You know, just like, there's like just this spill out. It's not an additional trauma. It's that we're all coping. We're all coping and this was just, for me, it was just like, oh gosh, come on. Really, I can't even like, yeah, and of course, this is a trauma that is part of our daily lives and it's just illuminated. It's light. It's not darkness. It's light that was put forward. And, you know, we have to be appreciative of Breonna Taylor and, you know, a lot Aubrey and George Floyd and Freddie Gray and, you know, it's like piles and piles and piles. It's like a whole bunch of light just keeps coming on and until you hopefully we can not turn away and we can just see what's in front of us and the destruction that is laying and the heartbreak and the disappointment and, you know, I mean, Tony McDade and this is just, and I'm missing whoever else in the last 10 days because these names are now, you know, this is 10 days ago. So I can't even, I don't know. I don't think that there's an additional burden. It's simply that I decided that I was tired. That's what happened. Like, yeah, I'm gonna just say I'm tired instead of pretending that I'm not tired. I'm gonna say I'm exhausted. I don't know, James, for you, what? I, you know, I feel that this where we're at, race and racism is intentional. And my little thing is like, I just got a day on TV and I can't get this out of my head. He was saying that we don't have government records of how many black men have been killed by policemen, but you can find easily out how many people have been killed by jellyfish, you know? And it's like, it's intentional. It's, you know, and it's like, and I guess there's like, if we hide the facts, maybe they will, you know, I don't fill in the blank. I don't know, but I think this is a real time for, you know, truth.  Cause he's gonna, whatever happens, he's gonna be there throwing gasoline. So things haven't been bad enough, you know, for, so now there, when it comes to theater, since we also, you know, we are all part of that community and it's a great community. I think the most generous people, the most people who are close to the, also the history and the fight for freedom over centuries have been part of that. So now what, what's on your guy's mind? Do you think things will change in your practice? Will you do something different? What are you thinking about about?  Yeah, luckily enough, I am the co-architect of a theater built into its mission as representation. And we are, you know, and I have a really great partner, more present, and you know, I just, you know, love this man and think that, you know, we're, we're agreed on the task, you know, that we have to make up for lost time and lost effort and amplify the mission of working theater to make sure that the voices of working folks, a lot of brown, black folks are present on our stages and that our stages aren't just these exclusive spaces, midtown, but those stages are inside of the communities of the people who actually make this place what it is, who enrich us culturally, experientially, because we exist as neighbors.  So how do we redistribute access, wealth and opportunity? I made a decision early on in this COVID thing that I would, when it's over, I'd look back on this time and I would think that I use this as a gift.  But personally, I have time, you know, and I have thoughts in my head and I am executing, you know, I'm talking to Tamal now about like what we can do outside of the realm of, you know, of a theatrical experience and what does that mean?   So yeah, but what does that mean? How can I bring theater into people's homes? And that's what I'm interested in pursuing. You once, I think you came to a prelude, right? Was your piece on police shooting a long time ago, would you do the same piece or would you do differently now, do you feel things are changing in forms? That was Disposable Men and it was back in 2005 and it's being shown tomorrow on here. And I did three-fifths and I think that, you know, I don't know, I think I'm, I don't know, be honest. I'm working on a piece related to my experience with 9-11 now, which is a whole different thing, but yeah, that's where my head is at right now. I think does everywhere you look, you know, people are aware that black men are getting shot and killed. I don't feel like I need to highlight that fact. It's everywhere, you know, and hopefully something is gained from it, you know, today, I was looking at this woman whose son was killed and the lawyer was like, please give us the video, the body cam video before you release it to the public.  They released it, put it on YouTube.   I don't know what I can do. We need joyful stories. We need joyful stories. Yeah, what do we need? No, what do we need? What's meaningful? What do you think we should be doing? I think we should tell the stories about the future we want. That's what we should do. We should put into practice. We should start rehearsing the future we want. We should put it in front of audiences so they can see that it's possible that if exist in my imagination, it could actually exist in the real world. Those are the stories we need to be told. We need to tell the stories of the future. Come on, Black Futurist, let's do it. That's what we need. We need to put forward what can be, should be, must be. And that is, you know, and those, how do we exist in like the profound joy and light and grace and generosity and see black folks existing in abundance and not suffering? Yeah, James, related to what you're saying, like, don't watch me suffer. I don't want you to see me suffering. You wanna make some joyful stories, James? I am an angry black man.   And I think that, yeah, I think that there is, actually, I'm writing a piece that's kind of joyful, but, you know. Yeah, I know. Yeah. Yeah. Tough times. Frank, I think, do me a favor. Yeah. Talk to your people, will you? I will, okay, I hope they are also listening and they are, but you're right, yeah, we have to, yeah. Talk amongst yourselves. They're at eight minutes and 45, 46 seconds of silence in the Senate. The other day, it's such a long time. There should be no silences. We need to be done with silence. I think it's helpful to realize it's one thing to say, eight minutes and 45, 46 seconds, it's another to experience it, you know? I couldn't watch the video. Listen, guys, thank you, really, thank you for, you know, for joining us and sharing, on this day, especially. And I think what you said, we all should think very carefully about and to talk to us, ourselves, among ourselves, to think what we could do. And to also that, perhaps, that Buddhist idea, the joyful participation in the sorrows of life. You know, we have to participate in the sorrows, but also in a joyful way. I think this is what theater does. It has always been on the side, it's been on the pragmatic side to find solutions that people survive, to celebrate, and show the conflicts openly, the murders and killings, but also love and joy and how close they are and we really experience them, even so they don't seem to be real, but they are real for that moment. And as Tamela said, why theater is interesting, it's a model for something. If it happens in your imagination, it happens on stage, it could happen. And that's why a lot of people, we talk to it there, governments suppress it, forbid theater, they film it okay, television is okay, it could be more radical, but if it's shown on theater, it's getting censored. There's something powerful in it. And yeah, so we all really, really have to think what we're doing, everyone, and I think there's a long, longer-term mission and no easy answers if it, as Einstein said, if it could be solved, it wouldn't be a problem, so that's why it is a problem often, because it can't be solved and the people are not able to solve a problem, other ones who are also connected to it because they can't. And we really have to work hard to do this.  On the contrary, I think, the commission she got, they said give us your money back, they started writing on it, you know, I mean, so, but what do you say to young artists how to engage in a meaningful way, from your experience in life? Yeah, I think of my friend Leslie at school, he told me, and I think of this all the time, it's like you have to remember the feel of your own destiny and let that be the fuel for the stories that you want to tell. That's what I'd say, remember the feel of your destiny, keep moving forward. Yeah, I think I've been in groups where writers would write a two-person show because the hope was that it would be easier to produce and I think that's fine if you're a writer who writes two-person shows, you know, go do it, but if you're a writer who writes shows that need more, I would encourage you to do it and find someone to put it on. I mean, I think one of the things that really shifted everything for me was when I was in a group and this woman she was a white woman and she said, I did this thing with horses in a drive-in theater.  She went up to the guy with the drive-in theater and she asked for it. She went to the guy who had the horses and she asked for it and I think about her often when I get to the point where I'm like I want to do something and you know, who can I ask? And it's hard, it's really hard and you have to be brave because people are going to say no but I've got a good friend who always says they ain't going to punch you in the face most likely. So ask. I will ask and there's no way in the world that a piece like Three Fist we had five weeks of rehearsal, a four-week run in the theater with 23 actors, 30 collaborators, 22 video projectors, it's just off-off-broadway, it's never going to happen but you know, we didn't know that it couldn't happen. So I think what I would encourage young artists to do is follow your heart and that sounds really corny but if you are a writer or a creator that does very small pieces on one, great. If you're the writer who needs an army full of people, do it. Find somebody to put it on.  Yeah, as you say it all sounds simple or easy but it's real advice and it's significant and it's also important to and thank you both for speaking the truth, for sharing this moment today, this day with us and your thoughts and we can't wait to see what you all will come up with and when you're back on the stages of New York and you share with audiences your experiences and we know we need the audiences to be there. It's also something we learn now and so that we all but we really have to look at what we do and this is a moment where we can do that and we really really have to, if anything we have learned from these days, we have to to ask questions, maybe we never wanted to ask, we have to see things, maybe we didn't want to see things. So tomorrow if you can join us, we have a great philosopher or a significant philosopher on contemporary philosophy from France, Sean Wignancy who wrote a lot about public space, what's we, what is I on love also is a great, great thinker it's a big honor for us to have us here. Thursday we have Avalier Timpel with us, a great director who did the great feast with us also, I love that play that musical things came from the Royal Court and the National London, never got done in the US, we tried very hard, that was one short version but she did so beautifully and then Woody King Jr I'm going to talk to him on Friday he has been for 50 years, he's run a black theater in New York, tried to do the New Federal, so many people also went through his work how does he experience the moment, how does he see what we what we're doing now, so that's truly of of real interest, so I hope you will join us again and listen I think it is important for you guys to say what's on your mind, but it's also important really for us to listen and I think our listeners and we get comments from many many countries and states in the US, you know, that people are perhaps listening a little bit more carefully, so thank you it's important, we need good theater but we also need good audiences, people because ultimately it's about you, the listener, the viewer the listener, what do you do with it it's not good enough to know something but what do you really do and theater artists are great because they do something and they see something earlier perhaps a bit, I see they are in the moment but they also anticipate as the both of you did with your work, so next week we have Tanya Pugera with us from Cuba and also many many others, so I hope you will join us again it's week 11 for us now and it's a privilege for us to listen and share so many voices from around the world, so James and Pamela, really thank you for being so open honest and in this moment which we could feel you know that it's not easy for all of us not easy to speak but it's not easy to listen but it's a serious moment and I think that's what what we need and theater if it ever had anything to say and the arts it's now we are of significance, we have been a change, this is the stories we heard from Africa and the apartheid in Chile and Mexico and Colombia how theater has been a contributing force to change and I think it's time again to think really really through how we can be even better and more clearly so thank you all for listening, thanks to Hal Round, Tia, Vijay and Travis for hosting us and my team, Andy and Sanyang and please do join us again tomorrow with Jean Luc Nocy look him up, maybe you don't know for years it might be also, like today it might be really an important talk thank you, bye bye


Fish is an excellent source of nutrients, and plays a crucial role in combating food insecurity. However, due to its highly perishable nature, it is essential to preserve its freshness and quality by respecting the coal chain and using appropriate preservation technologies, especially when the fish is not intended for immediate consumption. In Madagascar, the fishermen of Mahana have understood the importance of coming together by creating 13 cooperatives, which now gather over 1,000 fishermen, across three municipalities in the district. In 2008, these cooperatives then united to form a federation called Theradia. This federation subsequently acquired a cold room and freezers, to ensure the preservation of the coal chain and, consequently, the quality of the fish. The company Manda SA is based in Antananarivo but has a permanent collection point in Mahanara. It is responsible for collecting and exporting high-value fish. The regional directorate of fisheries and blue economy in Atsunanana, Theradia, and Manda SA have established a public-private partnership agreement to optimize the utilization of Theradia's cold storage facility. This partnership involves the collection and storage of high-value commercial fish species before shipping them to the capital, while adhering to European hygiene and traceability standards. Over time, several issues have emerged within the Theradia federation. Manda SA and the fishermen have noticed a significant decline in the catch of large, commercially valuable fish. The community management of the Theradia federation, which had been implemented, has not been able to sustainably operate the cold room. Like all companies, everything goes well at the beginning. And then we noticed that the fishing effort increased when the number of fishermen increased. Then the catch started to decrease. That's why we cooperated with the ministry, the regional fisheries directorate in the Atsunanana region, seeking advice on how to solve the problem and develop the cooperative. To address this situation, the regional directorate of fisheries and blue economy in Atsunanana has proposed a co-management approach within a public-private partnership between Manda SA, Theradia federation, and the state, through the regional directorate of fisheries and blue economy in Atsunanana. What is the role of the state and ministries in this process? We only facilitate, regulate, and set regulations. We try to ensure our sovereign role despite co-management, and we do not participate in commercial decision making. However, we ensure the sustainable exploitation of maritime fisheries in the region. The fishing zones of traditional fishermen are limited due to the small size of their canoes. As a result, they cannot venture far from the coast for extended periods, which significantly restricts the size of the fish they can catch. What is Manda SA's role in this process? To address the shortage of canoes suitable for deep sea fishing, the ministry of industrialization, trade, and consumption has granted four motorized fiberglass boats to Manda SA. Manda SA, in turn, has allocated these boats to the Theradia federation so that the 13 cooperatives can utilize them on a rotational basis. We provided the Theradia federation with motorized boats for the fishermen to further enhance their daily activities. Additionally, we have implemented training programs to support them in maintaining the freshness of their products. As part of this initiative, we supply them with food-grade ice to preserve the freshness of the products. We have helped improve the livelihoods of the fishing communities in Mahonoro. In return, they provide us with products that comply with the hygiene and quality standards required by the current European regulations. This initiative aims to better manage resources and promote sustainable fishing while providing local fishermen with the opportunity to earn income. We got all the caught fish at sea because when we go out with the motorized boats, it's not just for a day, but for two to three days to cover the expenses related to fuel. During this time, we aim to make the maximum number of significant catches. The coal chain must be strictly maintained during the two to three days at sea. Manda SA provides the fishermen with the necessary quantity of food-grade flake ice in coolers. Considering consumer expectations in this regard, it is important to eviscerate the fish as soon as they are on board and immediately place them under ice in coolers to minimize the risk of subsequent contamination. The fishmongers collect the fish and in less than 30 minutes, the fish are weighed, cleaned and put back on ice in a cold storage room, awaiting reconditioning and shipment to Antananarivo. I guarantee 100% that the fish we catch are fresh. When I go ashore, I know whether a fish is fresh and can be eaten or not. And all cooperatives use these motor boats for fishing. We take turns using the received boats within the federation. There are 13 cooperatives that are members of the federation, and we have reached agreements among ourselves. We have obtained four motorized fiberglass canoes, and it would be unfair if only one cooperative were to use them. Therefore, all cooperatives can use them on a rotational basis. However, this also depends on the availability of fishermen who are willing to form a crew to go fishing. Each cooperative's members can form a single crew to engage in fishing activities. The federation collects money on each kilogram of fish caught. How much money does the federation collect? And how does it use this money to keep itself going? The federation collects 25 cents per kilogram of fish preserved in its facilities. This 25 cents goes into the federation's fund, and an additional 25 cents is allocated to the cooperative's fund for the respective fishermen. The fuel cost is also deducted. The remaining amount is shared equally among all the fishermen who participated in the fishing activity. The operating fund is also used to cover the electricity bills, for the freezers and cold storage, and to pay the salary of an accountant. Additionally, the profits are distributed equally among all the cooperatives. This approach allows for financing the necessary expenses, while ensuring a fair distribution of profits among the fishermen of the 13 cooperatives. At the end of the year, after the balance sheet has been drawn up, the profits are shared between the fishermen, but there are also fishermen who have problems, such as the loss of pirokes. We can hold a meeting to provide assistance by drawing from the federation's fund. In case of problems, this fund also serves as a solidarity fund, which can be quickly triggered based on a simple vote by the members of the federation. How does the Ministry of Fisheries support you? The Ministry of Fisheries supports us in technical and administrative matters. This means that we feel like we have a tutor, and we don't walk alone thanks to the ministry. What's the difference between the way we used to work and the way we work today? What are the advantages for you fishmongers of being part of the Theridia Federation? As a fishmonger, I purchase fish directly from the fishermen on the beach to deliver to Theridia Federation. After coming from the beach, I have the fishwade at Theridia. It is there that they buy my fish and pay me immediately in cash. This work serves as my sole source of income for myself, and my children since I am a widow. I take care of my children on my own, and the money I earn helps meet their needs up until now. It's a win-win partnership. Thanks to this co-management system, all parties will benefit from this partnership, each in its own area of expertise. What are the benefits of this partnership for Theridia Federation members? For the Theridia Federation, it ensures quick purchase of all their products, strengthens their skills in fishery infrastructure management, and raises awareness about hygiene standards and the coal chain. The creation of the cooperative has been beneficial for us. It has made our work easier since they came into existence. When we have large fish and shrimp, we weigh them directly there. We sell the remaining fish that the Federation does not need at the market. First and foremost, this process considerably reduces post-capture losses, and adds value to the region's still abundant high-value products. What is the fishery's administration's vision of the benefits of this partnership? The fishery's administration encourages this public-private partnership, which makes the management of state infrastructure more efficient, by adopting this co-management approach. Until now, in 2023, there has been an increase in fishmongers and fishermen selling their catches or products through the Federation. This means that over the years, there have been noticeable benefits at the household level. This is a perception, an observation, so we can see it in terms of houses, their dwellings, in terms of general living conditions. For example, fishermen, they've been able to pay for their children's schooling. They were able to pay for their daily needs. Now that you know why and how the fishermen of Mahanara came together to create the Tsaradia Federation and improve their living conditions, let's review one last time what we have learned on this subject. Fishermen should join cooperatives and federations to benefit from the technical and financial support of private and public partners. The objective is to acquire appropriate equipment through a public-private partnership, such as modern boats, iceboxes and freezers. The rights and responsibilities of the parties involved in this partnership should be defined in a memorandum of understanding. Community management issues related to the equipment should be overcome with the assistance of public authorities. Co-management between the Fishermen's Federation, the administration, and a private company appears as a sustainable solution. The effective management of infrastructure and funds relies on adhering to the rules established by the users. It is important to enhance the capacities of fishermen and fishmongers for better management of their activities. A portion of the profits can be utilized as a solidarity fund to assist members in times of need. Through the collaboration of various stakeholders, including fishermen, fishmongers, the Federation, cooperatives, the private company Manda SA, and even the government, a successful co-management partnership has been established, benefiting all parties in a mutually advantageous collaboration.