to Inside Leather History, a fireside chat. I'm Doug O'Keefe, the host and co-producer of the chats with Mistress Joanne Gaddy. Inside Leather History, a fireside chat is a production of the Leather Archives and Museum. And I'm speaking with Carl Heinz Edel, who is in Mannheim, Germany. Carl Heinz is the first European boot black. So we're very curious to what they have to tell us today. Carl Heinz, tell us a little bit about your growing up, where you're from, your family. Well, I'm a pretty average, young person, I think. I have German parents. I grew up in Germany pretty much around here. And there's nothing that special about me, I think. I think I was 15 when I got into the whole punk rock thing. So I got my first pair of boots around then. They were from the flea market, and they were much too big for me. And they were very old. And the leather hurt my feet something horrible. So yes, I started trying to soften them up. And that was pretty much the start. I never stopped doing boots since then. How did you begin doing those boots? I just threw everything at them I could find in the basement, like cream polishes and dubbans. And I made a mess, but it worked in the end. Because I wore those boots every day, all day. So they softened up from just wearing, after all. I didn't have them for so long because sometime after, I realized that my feet would never get this big. So I splurged on a new pair then. What kind of boots did you buy? Those were Shelly Rangers. I think there were 10 eyelets high. This would be the high version of the original. Oh, it's beautiful. Yes, they are. Oh. That line, that crinkle around the ankle. I still love those. These are not mine, obviously, because they are huge. But I had the short version about this high, I think. OK, OK. And I loved them two bits. Really, I treated them horribly. But I didn't feel better. I was young. Well, what does that mean you treated them horribly? Well, we mainly wore them as protection at concerts. And we used to kick beer bottles with them and all that. And that was rather rough on the leather. If I had treated them better, I would probably still have them. I still have my second pair, but not those. When you said that you threw everything from the basement at them, what kinds of things were you using at that point? Everything from the thick grease that we used on hiking boots to black shiny stuff that's actually designed for inner city boots and shoes. And there wasn't that much, actually. But it just kept going. You see, Germany isn't a wax polish country. I could draw you a map of Europe. It's there's different places like the Scandinavians, like very heavy greases. And then there's a zone that uses wax polish like from Great Britain down to Portugal. Everything south of the Alps doesn't do much leather care at all. They have these horrible quick shine things. Don't use them. And Germany and around Germany is mostly cream polishes, actually. So oh, and then there's the Alps. The Alps is conditioner and wax polish. And yeah, that's pretty much it. But that's what you find in the stores when you go through Europe. I'm surprised. I did not realize there were so many regional differences. Yes, there are.  So yeah, but as long as it works, it's good. So they all do the same, even though people don't really realize that my mother wouldn't put water on a boot. She would be like, oh, no, the salt stains. But she did use cream polish, which has water in the product. And it works. So she does the same thing without realizing that she does put water on her shoes. Tell me how your desire began. How did you begin to learn boot blacking? It was my favorite chore as a child, actually, before the punk rock boots. But then I was the only little punk rock carotid with shiny boots on the second pair. That was the first pair, went to rags. But then people around me realized that I didn't get, how do you call it, would you hurt your feet in the shoes? Blisters, that I was the only one who didn't get blisters with the boots in summer. So they started asking me what I was doing. And I was like, oh, come on, just give them here. It's quicker like that. So pretty soon I was doing my friend's boots, too. And it just kind of spiraled from there, I think. Were there specific products you were using then? I think I tried everything I could find. I was really happy when I found my first key view, because Germany doesn't have wax polishes as such. So that's a big difference. But I never stopped using the cream polish under there. So I usually layer cream for the blackness and a little bit of wax for extra shine. I think I started using colonial products pretty soon, because they have a wide range of products. And they are available in pretty much every shoe store in Germany. And I really like them, too. Like they have these thick black pigments in their cream polishes that really saves time in cases where you probably should dye the boot. But with that cream polish, you can work around it if it has to be fast. As you were doing your friend's boots and you were growing and you were learning about this, what feelings did you have? Glee. No joy, actually. While I'm boot blacking, I go all calm. It's like gardening, maybe. It's very soothing for me to touch and polish leather. It's a nice thing to do. And if it works, and then you get that pop and it shines up. And they are happy about the boot. I'm happy about the result. And everybody's just in a better mood than when we started. So yeah, it's just a very good thing for the soul, I think. Yes. And it's sexy. How is it sexy? How is anything sexy? I can't tell you that. And just know it's sexy. It's definitely sexy. I'm wondering how boot blacking is evolving in Europe. I find that boot blacking is dramatically changing here in North America. How are you seeing it there? No, let me ask you a question. How is it changing in North America? In North America, we are seeing more recognition of boot blacks and the talent and the skill and the dedication that boot blacks bring to the community, to the fetish kink leather community. They are beginning to become recognized truly for their value. How are you seeing that in Europe? We're still pretty unknown, I think, as a kink. But you can't really ask me about the leather scene because there's historical differences with the leather clubs. They don't like women in there. No, that's maybe not the right words. But all these clubs, when you look them up online, you will find the club rules. And they are always something like this is a club for men who are into fetish, whatever.  And so I'm a bit off to the side from that. So you probably have to ask someone else. But the general, let's go more general with it. As far as the value of boot blacking in Europe for everyone, how are you seeing the reception from other people? Boot blacking is still very rare, but people love it. Sometimes you have to explain what you're doing and why you're doing it. But they're very interested and they love it. So yes, the reception is good. We should have more boot blacks. When I'm out doing a night with my friend, I have others who work with me occasionally. We usually don't get to stop all night. We just start and then people just line up and it's work, work, work until the morning, which is nice. Do you find that the people value you? Yes, yes, definitely. I miss it. We're still on partial lockdowns due to corona. So it's been too long. Yeah. When you work with the other people you mentioned, how do you train them? They tend to just run along, alongside me and watch. And then some of them say, OK, I want to try that. And but most of them have seen me do it so often that I don't really have to tell them. They know the moves and I answer questions. And sometimes I run at them for hours and they can't escape. Yes. Mentorship for boot blacks. Do you see that in the European community? There's me and there's Al. But other than that, I think there might be one guy in Berlin. But not that I know of. I'm doing a lot online. Actually, I'm talking to lots of European boot blacks and people who might want to be boot blacks. If they if they if they dare to come out and start something new, there's two folks in Denmark who actually started doing their own thing at the club or without me. They were so nervous that I think it went well. And they will do that again. When we are allowed to. We also plan to maybe meet up in Hamburg one day. That's a bit in the middle for the British people and the Scandinavian people and the Germans. And. Yeah, that's pretty much us. I think there's one guy in Poland who might want to come up. But yeah, we are not that many, but it's good.  It's better than when I was. All alone 12 years ago when that was. Yeah, I was amazed when I heard about. American boot black culture and that that's the best contest and all that. And I was like, I want to do that too. One day I'm going to win such a thing. So when I heard that they were doing one, they must see guys in Belgium. And someone said, come on, you go there. You can go there. It's it's it's it's it's neutral. It's not not just for males. I just had to go and. Yes, I had to win it. Do you have any intention of perhaps coming here for. The boot blacking contest at International Mr. Leather. Actually, no, I'm not interested. OK, I got my one thing and that's OK. But I don't want to do contests all the time. I think I'd rather teach more. Oh, that's beautiful. I had some how do you call it? Some workshops. Imagined and lined up before the pandemic hit. There are people who are interested, even people who are not trying or wanting to be boot blacks, just people who want to learn how to shine their own boots properly. And that sounds like fun, too. How do you intend. To teach these people boot blacking. I have flip charts. I could have two days like a weekend course. I would start with the cow. And stop with the leather. Because I think the details are really interesting. Most people just see a piece of leather. Here it is, but it's easier to understand what you're doing to the boot if you go through all the steps and imagine where the cow starts and where the leather is on the cow and what comes on top of the leather and what happens to turn this thing into a piece of leather minus the cow. Because there's many people out there who say, ah, leather, it's like skin. No, it's not. It's actually not. It's like the third part of your skin in. And there's no cow under it, keeping it moist. And you can't feed it. And it's a dead thing. It's fibers. It's more like paper or wood, actually, than a piece of cow. Yes, I have flip charts. What do you feel makes a good boot black? Skills and passion, both. You definitely have to have both. Because if you don't love what you're doing, it will show. And it will just be a shoe shine that doesn't work. I mean, it's different. It is different. I'm not going to explain it. It's sexy different. And without the skills, you can't do a good job. And the customer won't be happy. And if the customer can't be happy with the results, it's not a good boot blacking experience. What skills do people need? They need the skills to do the things they intend to do. I don't think everybody needs to be able to do a leather dust repair in the stand or something like that. Just keep it simple if that's what your skills at is. Yeah, don't try to go super fancy when you're new. But it sure is nice if you can do a hand shine or bring up a mirror shine in the stand or fix an eyelet that just fell out. But that's more like sprinkles on the cake. You mentioned when we spoke earlier that skills are not enough to be a successful boot black. So assuming someone comes to the stand with the basic skillset, what else do they need? Well, good boot black loves what they're doing. But they also have to be friendly or at least not rude. They have to have a little bit of people's skills. Like you need to be able to talk to your customer. If you don't ever look up, it will be weird for them. You have to be able to read the situation a bit. How much touching do these people want? And you have to be able to talk to them. Just talk to the customer, like ask them about their boots, what they want them done, if they do them at home themselves, what they use on them. A little bit of chit-chat. And then if the person wants to relax in your chair, let them relax. I had someone fall asleep one time. He came up the next day and brought me a cheese platter. So thank you. That was weird. That was weird, but very sweet. So yes, let them relax or let them talk or whatever, but you have to make your customer comfortable too, I think. And don't promise too much. It's okay if you can just shine them. But try to do your best. Definitely try to do your best with every pair you have. Are there specific products that you prefer to use? No, I have a lot and I like them all. I'm actually not a big fan of Hubert's shoe grease, which will sound weird to Americans, but the smell is strange to Europeans actually. I carry it in my kit. And sometimes there's a pair of boots that talks to me and says, okay, I want some grease, but I never just slap Hubert's on an European pair of boots. I let the people smell first. At most of them are like, whoa, that sounds, that's like old barbecue and not in a good way. So as I have something more neutral too for European noses and I get that too. Don't use a lot of Hubert's. There's a French wax polish, Baran, which is very cheap and has a very hard wax in it. It smells nice and it does a perfect job and it's very easy to use actually too. And it's just a fun product. So it brings up a mirror shine in like five or six layers. So, and while the texture in the tin is very thin, so it's possible to just put a little bit on your hands and say you have a woman with knee-high boots, you know, all these little wrinkles, you can just go over the wrinkles and just highlight those. Oh, it's nice. Ooh, it's nice. It doesn't stick to that leather for long because wax polishes are more for thermal parts of the boot, but it's like applying some lip gloss. It's just fun for one night or two. What personal challenges have you faced as a boot black?  And they were like, well, just do. And I'm like, okay, how do I go about this? And they said, just find a leather club or leather bar. So I Googled the leather clubs and leather bars and they were all men only. That was a bit frustrating. Like, oh, look, the popular kids don't want you to play again, but I did the usual thing and found my own phone. There's plenty of mixed fetish parties. So I just talked to some organizers if it would be okay if I came around with my little kid and they loved it. So I just did that. And then Marcus joined, then Iris joined, then people online became interested and now we're this little nerd group and whatever the popular kids are doing. Let them do it. We are having fun. Do you see that someday these men only events, clubs might be more welcoming of boot blocks like you coming into the situation? Yes, I guess they will. Because you see these clubs are having slight problems with not having enough young people because nowadays everybody is dating online. So if you have a fetish or whatever, you just put that on the dating app of your choice and you'll find people and it's not like when it, how it used to be when you had to go to the leather bar to find someone with a fetish. So I think in the long run it's a chance for them to open up for a more diverse set of people.  I tried, it's horrible. I think it would be impossible, wouldn't it? Yes, there's actually people who do boot fetish things with, they send one boot to the other person and then, but that's not for me, no, no. When you were competing for your title, I would like to know what was asked of you. What did you have to do for your contest? Don't ask me about the percentages, but most of the points came from the interview? Yes, so it was an interview about personal stuff and technical questions, which I apparently aced. And then the next day we were working the stands and there were ballots and every customer could give out points. And I think the judges came around and gave another round of points too, but I wasn't paying attention, there were boots. I think it was two thirds of the interview, one third of the ballots. From what I've heard, the scores for the ballot were very even between the customers because between the contestants because well, European customers are pretty amazed by boot blacks generally. So the scores there were very high but everybody had very high scores. So yeah, that didn't make that much of a difference. Was it the same last year actually too? How many contestants were there? One, two, three, four, yes, we were four people. Where was it held? In Belgium, in Aptelpen by MSC. Okay, yeah. What were your thoughts and your feelings when you won? No, everything, I'm thinking now it just sounds arrogant. Please, please tell me. Okay, I knew I'd win. With this much focus on the points from the interview and the technical questions, it felt a bit like being an Olympic swimmer in a kiddie pool. Like sure, it was fun, but I'm a professional conservator and restaurateur. I've trained and worked in museums. I can do all these little things that boot black does and a lot more. So it was not a contest, not much of a contest, which is part of the reason why I don't want to go to America and do it again because this might just happen again. It's like if you grew up with the language and you're expected to do a language exam and everybody around you has just learned, it doesn't feel right. I'm better off teaching. I don't completely agree that because you have an advantage that it's unfair, I don't completely agree with that because I think it only shows the talents that you bring. But that's just my opinion. Because I think someone who has learned as much as you have learned and knows as much as you know, should be able to show that. I can show that teaching. And I'm actually happy judging too. So... No, I'm good. I showed the world that I can get a sash, but one is enough for me. What advice can you give to a new boot black? Take the tips. Don't take the free drinks. Because at first I was actually hesitant to take money for something I love. But I was shining boots in front of an absent boot. Yes, you know, absent? Well, the stuff you can light on fire. Well, actually it's very potent boots and I was shining shoes next to it. In absent boot. And I didn't want to take money. So someone said, do you want one? And I said, yes, okay, I like them. Bring me one. But they heard that. So it was working and they started lining them up behind me. And it was a hot day outside. And you don't really realize how strong the stuff is. So I drank a lot of absent on one go, one day. And then I decided that it's really better for my health to just take the tip. That's funny. Yes. It was funny that night. But it was funny. Yes. Well, I can tell you here in North America, we are expected to give a generous tip. Someone is doing our boots. Because we know how hard they work. You have mentioned that there are few cis male boot blacks in Europe. Well, maybe they just don't talk to me. I don't know. But I don't think there are many cis male boot blacks. One, two, three, four. Okay, there are a few, but I don't think there's more than 10. Why do you think there are so few? I know of people who are in a relationship with a master slave, the part, dynamic, dynamics, the word. And the slave does master's boot, but he doesn't want to. He has to be forced to do it. That's not boot black. And I know that a few people who sometimes take a brush and a tin of polish to a party, but there's no one working a chair like you do, like we do now. So I have no idea why that is. You mentioned that you're welcomed in mixed spaces and able to do some very quality work in those situations. Where do you see yourself going maybe in five years or 10 years with your boot blacking? Probably still the usual places. I like to go to Munich. There's a party organizer who does big lush baroque events and they love us. And we have a little thing going where we get free entry, one person per boot black free entry too, and free drinks. And that plus the tips makes for the gas money and the hotel. So that's pretty sweet. And there's a place near Frankfurt where I usually like to go regularly, like once a month. They know us, they like us. We get the same deal. I should probably be in Berlin more often, but that place is just... Berlin is too big for me. I'm nervous. I want to know where the green stuff grows. I just don't want a city that's the large. You can't walk in on one side and out on the other. And yes, we were thinking about Hamburg, but that was before the pandemic. And let's see where it takes me. Barcelona asked me to come, it's kind of a long way, but that would be fun maybe. Do you see yourself teaching boot blacks all over Europe? Yes. Yes, please, if they want to. I mean, I'm doing a lot online and I'm talking to many, many people if they want to. And I'm answering everybody's questions in the boot black forum and on Facebook, whether they ask me to or not. Do you still feel that you are evolving, that you are growing as a boot black? Not this last year, but yes, I'm hoping to grow again next year as a boot black because nothing happened. Oh, it was boring. Yeah. The sisters of perpetual indulgence asked for glitter boots that don't shed glitter. It's a project that needs some thinking because if there's glitter, it definitely has to stay on the boot. But I think I have an idea how that could be possible and I need to try that. So yes, there's room to grow. Not that I personally like glitter boots, but hey, if someone wants them, they'll get them. There you go. What was your biggest disaster as a boot black? Oh, I was very, very young as a boot black at the time and I thought it might be a good idea to try using floor wax, you know, what you use to wax the floor for wood on a boot. It was not a good idea. What happened? That was horrible. It flaked off and it just went on flaking off. It was everywhere. And how do you call it? It electrified and it stuck to the hose from the vacuum cleaner. So it was everywhere. It was pretty disgusting. Don't do that, kids. It's not a good idea that belongs on the floor and not on your boots. It's just not flexible enough. I know that now, but I thought, hey, maybe it works. It didn't. I have had the privilege of meeting in Amsterdam, Chris Lee de Hound. Oh, he's lovely. Yes, and I will do an interview with him eventually. But to come to the specifics of this question, how are you seeing boot blocking beginning to grow in the various countries? Well, people are interested. And no matter where I go, it's the same low percentage of people who are interested. But the interest is there. It's just that it's not an established thing, I think. If there were stairs in the corners in the clubs, people would know what to do and would probably do it too. But as it is now and you have to make your space before you can even start boot plugging in a location. And I think that's a bit of barrier yet. So the only way around it is more boot plugging, I guess. Yes, you have an opportunity right now to speak to boot blacks all over the world who will be watching this interview soon. What would you really like them to know about you? Hello, I'm Karl Heinz. I know science. I can explain why the things that we do actually work. I mean, a lot of people know what to try if something happens on a boot. But I know the workings behind that. And if you ever wonder why the grease goes rancid but the wax doesn't, I can tell you that. I can even do a little thing on a blackboard if you want me to. Please explain, why is that the case? Because waxes actually are completely different from oils and greases on a molecular structure. You see, oils and greases have calories, waxes don't. And if we can't eat it, bacteria and mushrooms. Thank you, bacteria and fungus can't eat it too. And that's why oils deteriorate in a different way than waxes do. If a wax gets old, you have this long chain of carbon molecules and actually they just fly away. And the rest stays and nothing much happens. But an oil, a lot goes on there and goes acidic while it does that. So it's always safer to use waxes and to use oils on your levels. I am very impressed with your scientific knowledge. How did you acquire this? I went to university to study restoration and conservation of archaeological, ethnological and art-historic objects, specializing in organic materials. So, yes, actually that's university-grade boot-blacking. Yes, I can see your value as a teacher. Again. What are the parents for teachers? You learned the art, bro. Karl Heinz-Edel, I appreciate and I thank you for this amazing interview for Inside Leather History of Fireside Chat.


Appalachian Wireless is Appalachian Advantage. Unlimited text talk and two gigs of data for as low as $45 a month. Or if you like, get five lines on eight gigs of data for just $145 a month. See store for details. Better service, bigger savings. That's today's Appalachian Wireless and East Kentucky Network Company. Longtime college professor and community volunteer Gail Lawson was an outspoken proponent of transportation equality in eastern Kentucky. Now her memory and her legacy will live on in a project she helped push forward. A bridge on the new US-119 at the Harlan County Electric County line at Partridge was named in her honor. Speakers at a dedication ceremony at the bridge described Lawson and her persistence in pursuing transportation resources sorely needed in the region. She cared about her community. She cared about her state. She cared about her brothers and sisters. She wanted this road. She asked for this road. She begged for this road. She hounded people for this road. Why? Because she cared. She represented not only Harlan County, but she represented all of East Kentucky. So if each of us were a volunteer or a citizen advocate in the style of Gail Lawson, just think what a better world this might be. She was dedicated to use her own personal resources to be able to communicate the needs of the people of this area to improve Harlan County and this region. All of us who are gathered here know that when Gail Lawson took up a cause, you could be sure of one thing. She would know as much or more about that than anyone else, including the experts. In the end, it's the things that we do to help the others around us, not what our personal gains are. And I think that Ms. Lawson was an ideal example of that person that truly loved this region, this area, and dedicated her life as her sole passion in the last years of her life after she retired from her other job. This 1-9 team project continues to progress in Letcher County, and officials hope to have the stretch of the project encompassing the Gail Lawson Memorial Bridge open by December 1. In Partridge, Chris Anderson, EKB News.


Okay, we are back. What's up everybody? Drew here that anxiety guy com along with the supreme Jedi Billy Cross from anxiety united calm in the UK It's supreme Jedi. It's a long story, but it's a funny one Yeah, thanks for stopping by for our next episode here today. We are gonna talk about exposure therapy It's a big topic if you are having anxiety and panic type issues and we could probably do an entire series on this because it's a Giant topic and we should today. We're really just gonna focus on that intro like what is exposure therapy? We were talking before we went live about how amazing it is that some people have never actually even heard of it Yeah, I posted in the Facebook group Yeah, somebody asked how they could start to you know make progress with their agrophobia and My response was exposure therapy and then their response to that a couple of hours later. What is exposure therapy? That was just like to me as I spoke because we've got so much experience with it You know, we're well familiar with the term But we were talking before maybe because it's sort of part and parcel of CBT Yeah, maybe people don't actually see that as a separate thing. Although. I suppose they are intertwined It's just when you think when you get offered CBT, you think therapy you think sitting in a room, right? Because of the way that it's portrayed You think that's all it's gonna be when reality When you get stuck into it, you will move from sitting there chatting to actually getting out and Exposing yourself. That's the key and it is part of CBT cognitive behavior therapy So, you know the reason why they call it that is there's that therapy and we were talking about this before You know therapy, you're right here We have that mindset of like, oh, that's when you go and sit in an office and talk to somebody But there's so much more to it than that so incognito behavior therapy your therapist your practitioner counselor Whatever you want to call them they will teach you How to identify negative thoughts and change them and challenge them and and you know get rid of them And that sort of thing so there's there's cognition involved you're learning cognitive not tricks But skills to combat the negative thoughts and that the triggered thoughts and those sort of things But then you get to the behavioral part cognitive behavioral therapy and that's actually doing stuff Actual stuff and so that's when you get that's the exposure is really the behavioral part of cognitive behavioral therapy And it's exactly what it sounds like exposure So you find the thing you're afraid of and you literally Expose yourself to it directly you intentionally go to the thing you are afraid of and that freaks a lot of people out Well, that's it. That's the thing. That's the point isn't it?   We're gonna learn how to Navigate these episodes. Yeah, and then the therapist will say right. Let's go and navigate some of these Right, that's when the alarm bells start ringing. Yes, I've seen a post Post on another Facebook group and somebody had said that they'd just seen their support worker for the first time The support worker had gone to their house, right? And then for the next appointment the support worker wanted the sufferer to go to them, you know, make an effort Let's make some progress and the amount of comments that I seen we're just saying wow the support worker should be fired This that's disgusting behavior. How can they expect you to do that? Yeah You know, I didn't post a comment, but I thought to myself that is it. That's what you've got to do That's exactly done. If you're gonna make progress then eventually you're gonna have to go and see that that you can't learn it all In your on your sofa. No, no, you can't you can't read it So exposure is really based on the premise that we learn through experience human beings learn through experience So we learn to be afraid through experience you have a panic attack in the supermarket So you don't want to go to the supermarket anymore You've learned to be afraid to go to the supermarket and and we can unlearn that but you only unlearn and learn through experience We're creatures of experiential learning. So you can't read about it. You can't talk about it You can't watch videos about it. Those things will help but you ultimately have to actually Confront the thing that you're afraid of and that's what exposure is all about Yeah, so it's actually used it's not just for people that deal with panic attacks and agoraphobia and that sort of stuff Exposure is used to cure or you know to a cure it's a cure a simple phobias if you're afraid of dogs for instance You know you use exposure therapy to overcome that fear of dogs, and it's a graduated thing It's usually called graduated exposure for a reason and you might start with just sitting in the therapist office looking at pictures of dogs Which could be enough to get you kind of freaked out, right? And you learn how to manage your response and be afraid properly. You have to learn to be afraid And then from there you might graduate to you know Maybe going to a veterinarian's office and looking at dogs from a distance 20 feet away You know just hearing them barking and of course you'll freak out for that You learn how to manage that response and in the end you'd work up to the point where you're literally Holding a dog playing with the dog that you've overcome your fear the phobia goes away And that only happens through the experience of actually being afraid Yeah, yeah, you know and learning I think another good thing to think about with that is like With exposure therapy people get to the comfortable place And then they just stop and say arc and live with this Yeah, you wouldn't if you were scared of dogs You wouldn't just be happy with looking at a picture of a dog and saying arm cured, right?  You can't have you know Yeah, you're still there so you it's not about just reaching it's about going All the way so if we're gonna talk about what exposure is and we're covering that now and and really more importantly What are the expectations? What should you expect when you go into it? What you expect to happen? What should you not expect to happen? I think you know the object of the game is again exposing yourself to the thing that you fear so that you can learn to Manage that response and what you're really doing the crux of the whole thing is that the fear that you are experiencing is a rational There's so we can go back to our one-on-one series. The fear is real, but there's no danger. There's no real day That's exactly right So you have to the only way to learn that the fear is baseless is to experience the fear and actually experience the thing that makes you Afraid so we need to define. What are we actually afraid of so the first expectation and exposure is not so much to? We'll try and think of it. I can never think of another Example, but we'll use the supermarket for instance if you're afraid to go It's a good one right because many people have that if you're afraid to go to the supermarket You know, are you really afraid of the supermarket? Is it the supermarket that you're really afraid of? You know the answer to that is no, but what are you afraid of? those thoughts those feelings Right, it's what it's what you're expecting is going to happen. Yes So it's not you're not exposing yourself necessarily to the supermarket You're exposing yourself to the thoughts that come along with being there and the bodily sensations that you're afraid of So that's really what we are afraid of here Yeah, we're not afraid of the shopping mall their mailbox or the post box or the supermarket or the school recital or we're not We're afraid of those things. We're afraid of how we feel in those things So the expectation for people like us when you get to exposure is that you kind of have to expose yourself to panic and anxiety You have to say you have that happen. Yeah.  I don't know There you go back. I froze on my own screen, too. Yeah There you go. Okay. Yeah, you don't you don't learn when you go out and everything's just a breeze And you're not really pushing yourself you learn when you put yourself in those positions And you learn that you don't need to bail out. You don't need to run away Yeah, you know, you learn that the physical sensations and the thoughts and that are just that Physical sensations and thoughts and that's it. There's nothing more to it And they're the same sensations that you might have in many other instances. You'd have those same sensations if you were exercising Right, you're even sitting at home on the sofa watching TV. Sure. Sure You can experience those same Sensations if somebody like sneaks up on you and plays a joke on you and frightens you you'd have that same jolt of adrenaline So yes, the object of the game is we will expose ourselves to those thoughts and those those sensations through whatever means we need to Getting in the car going to the supermarket looking at a picture of the supermarket and it's graduated So what you can expect to happen is that if you enlist the aid of a therapist or somebody who you know practices this They're going to start gradually You're gonna you're gonna sit and learn some of those cognitive skills to help you process those thoughts and deal with them more constructively And you're gonna start slowly so no nobody is good There is a thing called flooding which means if you've never left you if you haven't left your house in a year Flooding is is an extreme thing and it means that you're gonna go from being housebound for a year to just going a hundred miles from your home To a crowded shopping mall in a foreign city Bam you just thrown in the middle of that that's called flooding and it can be really effective But very few people do that because it's you have to really have a good therapist Who has done that before and so you're not gonna do that Most of the time you're gonna start very slowly if you're housebound the therapist may come to you first Like you're like that post you were talking about yeah Yeah, then they they may continue to come to you and just sort of kind of get you to the front door without even walking out The front door then they may take you on a short walk down down your own street You know then and you'll work up as you go so that you've got to be prepared to actually do that Yes, something that I did originally when I very first died was made a list of five things that I wanted to achieve So like my first one was walking to the mailbox I know we always come back to you but that was my that was the first thing on my list So whatever steps I needed to take whether it was standing at the front door one day Do it again the next you know hundred yards at the road the next day just working on reaching that one goal Right, and then when I was comfortable with doing that when it became boring. I Just moved on to the next thing and that was how I worked and by the time I'd reached like the fifth thing on there I'd realized that not only had I made it to number five, which was being able to go to a supermarket It had opened up so many other doors as well Because I'd gradually increased my exposure You know by the time I reached the pinnacle of what I thought this is my limit when I reached it I was way open to going for dinner Yeah, you know going to a pub going here there and everywhere and it didn't affect me half as much It had just opened those doors. Yeah, that's what it is. It's losing the fear. It's realizing that The feelings and the sensations are nothing Well, they are something they are something that those they're real. Yeah, the fear is real, but the danger is not So we're rescinding your Jedi title You're on Jedi suspension for ten hours And you know you're an e-walk So you know what that illustrates really, you know talking about expectations what to expect from exposure So you addressed maybe the postbox and then maybe you know the school and then maybe a pub and going out to dinner And it wasn't that you could say and so but it once you achieve those milestones You were open to doing other things Because what to expect you didn't overcome your fear of the postbox the postbox didn't frighten you Exactly what you actually were overcoming with the fear of those sensations. So it's like well if I can go to the postbox I can go anywhere right so you know that that's that's good to expect it you have to expect So what can you expect?   It's real fear, but the danger isn't you'll learn through experience What that is and the the if you do that work the progress can be really fast So you can expect reasonably quick progress This doesn't involve laying on somebody's sofa for two years It really usually if you really get into it usually in the space of a month or two if you're going weekly or twice A week kind of thing you can make a lot of progress in a short amount of time and wonder like why did I sit in my sofa for so long? You'll wonder that So I think those are the good things that you can expect This is this is what you're gonna do and this is what you can expect to happen But it's good. It's gonna be hard hard work. Yes Now the bad things to appreciate. Yeah. Yeah, they don't appreciate you how I Know like sitting here and saying it and then I can sit in and say that it's gonna be hard work But when I go and do it it is hard freaking work. It's horrible. You don't want to feel like that I think you said something gauges ago like people don't want to hit themselves with that with a hammer No, so why would you want to put yourself through this pain? That's exactly right. Turn while that's exactly right So the answer is because if you don't You won't you won't you just gonna stay where you are We go well again because we are creatures of experiential learning We can learn to be afraid through experience So when you have the first panic attack in the shopping mall, you can very quickly learn to not go to the shopping mall Yeah, but and you will only unlearn that also through experience going to the shopping mall and seeing like oh There's really no danger here. It's the only way to actually learn it. So it's through experience So that's why we have to do exposure And so the things you can expect is that the good things the bad things you can expect not bad But you know realistic things like Billy said it's really hard work It's not easy because especially when you first start you have to be really brave to face fear You just have to there's no way around that and Then the other thing too that you can expect that's you know People don't like to have to expect is that you're going you're going to be afraid. It's not Okay, let's see what not to expect. What does exposure therapy not do exposure therapy doesn't extinguish your panic attacks That's not what it's supposed to do. There's an intermediate step and everybody gets tripped up there. Yeah Yeah, like I my therapist made me go to the shopping mall and I had a panic attack. Oh, okay. That's what's supposed to happen Yeah, yeah, that's what's supposed to happen. Yeah, so it's what it's what you say after I had the panic attack Did you run out?  Exactly? Exactly. So exposure therapy is not designed To extinguish your anxiety or panic So if you go into it thinking that there's two things that is not going to do that most people hope that it's going To do it's going to stop their panic attacks instantaneously like this is a way to somehow stop anxiety from happening It's really not in fact It may increase your anxiety a little bit when you're involved initially in facing that fear Yeah, but it is going to teach you to not be afraid of the anxiety not to be afraid of panic And when you're no longer afraid of it, that's when it goes away So you have to make that intermediate step that says what it will teach you to do is not to be afraid of your own Panic don't be afraid of you won't be afraid of having a panic attack anymore So it won't make it go away It'll just teach you not to be afraid of it and the other thing that it won't do is it well It's not a therapy. That's designed to help you learn to live with this Yeah, yeah, and I know I have encountered people in my travels too that have expected that to happen They thought that the therapist was going to teach them how to navigate Right like though this will teach me how to navigate the world as an agoraphobic. Well, no It's not going to teach you that you're not trying to accommodate the disorder. You're trying to you're trying to get rid of the disorder So I don't know if you've ever had we've all known people like that, I guess And it's a shame because they they tend to go down a path of failure because they expected the wrong thing I think so. Yeah. Yeah, they maybe they expect too much. Well, that's what we're talking about Isn't it they expect too much you expect that you can just go I Don't know do it and then you a lot of people we've discussed before where they've gone out And they've said I went to the supermarket had no anxiety and every that's brilliant fantastic Yeah, but then the next day the next time they go they have a panic attack They run out and then it's like oh shit, and then maybe they'll go again and have no anxiety Right, but that's not that's not what we're that's not the answer It's not to say that success is when you go and you don't have anything At this stage anyway, obviously long-term. That's the idea. We want to end up there But now what we're trying to work on it. The success is when you experience it and you Get through it and you don't drink water and slap yourself on the face or all these safety behaviors You don't need any of that.  That's the only way to learn.  It has been proven for decades This isn't a new thing, right? This is not a new thing at all We have decades and decades of clinical evidence that shows it to be the most effective intervention We have in the case of anxiety disorders like this But it's also hard because people people expect it the wrong things from it And they also expect it to be easy or painless or comfortable Which is I can't fault anybody for that when I say that I don't mean to sound like I'm picking on anybody We nobody wants to be uncomfortable. I don't want to be uncomfortable But the true measure of success when you're going into exposure therapy is to get to the point where you know that you have an exposure To do and you truly do not care whether or not you are anxious or not Not that you're not anxious that the true measure of success is I don't care that I'm anxious I'm gonna do the same way That's the point my anxiety is no more of a bother than having a head cold or the flu might be Again, I don't want to go to the supermarket when I have the flu, but if I had to I can you know since you kill me So really that's what you should expect expect to learn to not be afraid of your anxiety and panic and Don't expect it to be some sort of instant cure or a way for you to learn to navigate The world as an example like or or with panic disorder. That's not what it is And so, you know that that means everything and if you're not willing to accept well, okay This is therapy that means I'm gonna have to intentionally be afraid then you know until you get your brain around that it's You kind of you kind of really have to buy into that before this becomes an effective way to go Yeah, yeah, yeah, so You know that that's kind of the the nuts and bolts. What is it and what do you expect? Well, let's talk a little bit about that too that I guess well, we've only been out of we this is a short one for us We haven't even been 20 minutes, but Let's talk about that and people ask me all the time Well, do I have to have a therapist and and it's expensive and even here insurance and maybe you can afford it Maybe you can't I understand that you don't have to have a therapist. I mean, I'm looking at somebody here I know has done a ton of it on their own. That's you I think it would have perhaps been more effective If I did have guidance though Yeah, I think that's perhaps where I've fallen off is when I've we've discussed it where you get to that comfortable stage Yeah, you know, I can go I can go shopping I can go take my kids to school. I'm all right with that Whereas if I'd have had somebody that said no, come on, let's get on a plane You know, let's fly and go see dream drink a cup of tea in his office. Yeah, you know that kind of stuff is so far beyond the reality of my Expectations, but it's like that's where I should be heading and I think if I had somebody there Jean me aren't telling me. This is the next step. This is the next step. Yeah, don't get comfortable You know, I think that's where a therapist would come in That's somebody that somebody who just not to just sit there and say everything's gonna be okay, right?  This is what we're gonna do. This is what the program is gonna be these are the skills I'm gonna teach you these are the the concepts behind it and that's really helpful if you're not don't have a background in behavioral Sciences, you know, and you don't know these things so the therapist will be a teacher at first and then the therapist just becomes a coach Like you said cheering you on Pointing you in the right direction pushing you where you need to be pushed Really it becomes a coaching thing more than anything else But it is possible to do it without a therapist it is possible, but you're right It's a having a professional who who actually does this full-time all the time just that Can really be effective if you can manage to do that If you can get to one one thing to consider is like your motivation if you're motivated enough to do it You can do it. That is true. That is true. That is actually very true Depending on how far at the end of your rope you are that I'm just not going to take this anymore I think those people do have a little more success even without professional help. They can do it on their own Yeah, I suppose it just depends how how low you're supposed to not how low you're supposed to but how low You need to get before something ignites and just says and you say that's not prepared. Yeah Yeah, I'm not doing this anymore. Yeah, and then that is a big deal motivation actually matters But there are a lot of resources you can use there There are good books and after we get done saying you can't you can't fix this with a book But you can the anxiety and phobia handbook by edmund born. That's a really good book and it's not terribly expensive So for those of you watching go and find it You know Somebody has to pay for billy's plane ticket to come see me and this is the way it's gonna happen No, but that's there. There's a bunch of these books. We talk about claire weeks all the time She's a good foundation, but she doesn't really Give you the nuts and bolts of exposure But like the born at born bo you are any edmund born his books are good because they actually That's a book that you might use with a therapist and it will explain a lot of those things So checking that you know books are good resources They're good resources online and sometimes the coaching and like you said somebody to cheer you on Yeah, yeah Sometimes you could find that just in a good community a good facebook group or you know exchanging videos on youtube Like that's how billy and i met You know really yeah youtube is how we met so There are ways to do it without a therapist. It doesn't have to cost you a ton of money It might be slower You might hit you might have a couple more setbacks and stuff But it's doable and if you surround yourself with people who this is a different topic We're talking about the social media topic, but My feeling with that is in terms of expectations of exposure If you surround yourself with people who will not accept your failure and not coddle you And and are willing to like give you a little tough love and say nope It's not okay to rest today. You got to get out and do it today If you can surround yourself with people who are invested in your success and who will cheer you on and support you and Encourage you and motivate you as opposed to Soothing you and you know coddling you and telling you it's all okay You have a much better chance a much better chance So in that respect if anybody is if anybody is planning to join facebook groups sometimes you find like the the groups with like 150 million members. They're the ones that are just really interested in getting the numbers up But from what I've seen my experience That the smaller groups are actually more effective. You do actually get genuine helpful advice in there is not just yeah, you know You can't share links to this that and the other because we don't want to lose members. That's a lot Yeah, it's a gripe of mine. I would urge everybody too if you're going to try and get into exposure on your own And you're looking for some sort or even with a therapist I'm sure most therapists would agree with this and you want some sort of support system And you want to find that online before you join a facebook group if you can see the group some of them are private Or or a forum on a website read it and see what's going on. Yeah, you have a look around Yeah, and I'll tell you there are hallmarks when you see a lot of you know people posting and and we all post You know when you're struggling you want to vent about your struggles and when the comments are all it's okay It's okay. It's going to be okay Trigger warning we all need a little bit of that right when every post begins with a trigger warning When everybody's talking about how we need more awareness of this and how people don't understand and How you know I dare anybody else to live with this all valid things We all need to hear those sometimes but you're really looking for those forums and groups where you hear people Yes, where people are sharing their successes and their failures and you know what when somebody has a failure You tried to do an exposure. It didn't work out for you bailed You know the best comment you can hear from other people in the group would be like You know what dust yourself off and you could do it again in a couple of hours Or tomorrow's a new day could get out there again, you know, we're behind you Yeah, that's exactly what you used to spur us on if it wasn't somebody else doing something Yeah, I can you're sitting there watching them go to a supermarket and that was the motivation. That's right But then even if you you know if you felt that you couldn't do something there was always just that support Yeah, that's that's what it was all about. It was about constructive support not pity right not pity Welcome to the party pal So that's you know in terms of exposure what you can expect you can do it without a therapist try and find yourself a really positive Encouraging support system if you can though don't don't fall back into the Soothing you know coddling thing because that tends to decrease your chances of success with exposure too But it's not impossible. It's not impossible And I think it's important to say you know before we start to wrap it up here that we're not telling you to go out And do anything actually dangerous No So the thought of going to the supermarket I'll just keep saying supermarket hate me if you will The thought of going to the supermarket just sends you into a blind panic. You know, I understand that I was there I used to be that guy too, but But in the end nobody's asking you to do anything that's actually dangerous We're just asking you to do things that are uncomfortable. There's a difference I was there yesterday. There you go. I went for it. You did it guess what I'm here today Doing a podcast with dream which means that I survived right you survived your trip to the supermarket nice So we'll do more on exposure therapy down the road I think we'll talk about the nuts and bolts of how it actually works because people don't know they really don't know how Works We can talk about some success stories and actually it would be good if you're watching this and you have exposure success stories Like send them in You know put them in the comments or you know on our facebook or wherever you find us because we're both all over the damn place But yeah, yeah, we'll talk about successes. We'll talk about we can talk about our own successes and failures I'm more than happy to talk about my failures. Yeah, there were many and uh, we know what kind of go from there But for this time, I think maybe we've got anything else that we can add to this I've got comments. I've got comments from previous videos, but we should probably save them for another q&a We'll do a q&a Well, we'll throw a couple in you have you have exposure comments for now or any of those uh Somebody asked does anybody out there feel like they're gonna faint? Honestly, I'm gonna put this into like exposure. You know, maybe feeling like you're gonna faint now. I did reply So they asked does anybody feel like they're gonna faint and my reply was that I think I feel like I'm gonna faint, but I don't know if I ever I'm actually gonna faint because I've never fainted before while I've been out So what I think That I may faint and that was the thing it was like have you ever actually felt like you're gonna Because I just don't know I don't know what it feels like to faint, but I think I think I'm going to Okay, that's really that's actually perfectly on topic believe it or not I know you probably think it isn't but it's perfectly on topic and I'll tell you why Expectations of exposure and that sort of therapy and one of the adjuncts we're talking about the cognitive part is that So if I was you know, that person's therapist I would I would answer that well Have you ever felt like you're going to faint and I would say felt like doesn't equal reality Like that phrase it feels like is one of those things that we need to learn to avoid like the plague It feels like I'm having a heart attack.   It feels like I'm going to fall over feels like is not reality So feels like and is is two different things and so probably just add I think it feel like I think it Right. Yeah, or you know So your therapist before you get out in the real world and actually start going to the supermarket the shopping mall The post box would ever before that person takes you out on your actual exposure They would go through that sort of thing.  You know what it feels like I'm going to have a million dollars fall on my head right now But the odds are that's not going to happen. But it really feels so I'm going to go buy a Ferrari because I feels like Like how how ridiculous is that sound like right now in my bones? It feels like I'm going to find a million dollars when I open my office door So I'm going to go online right now and buy a Ferrari That's people would think I was crazy Yeah, yeah, we yet we make our decisions based on it feels like I'm going to faint even though you've never actually fainted So that is it that's something to expect expect that you're a therapist or if you learn about it yourself and you read about the techniques That's something to expect you will learn to challenge that thought and dispel it And that's the that's the point yesterday is just a thought. Yes. I don't care what it feels like I only care. I only care what is what is thank you. Yeah, so there you go. So that was very good, dude Yes, somebody else mentioned the fleeting thoughts And like because in the video that I did yesterday I was getting that where I was just I was having this Just flash of thought out of nowhere Like I need I need to run out of here and I didn't and I said on the video I said I'm not running out of here like but why did I just have the feeling or the thought rather? Yeah, why did I just have the thought that I need to run out of here? It's just out of nowhere So I know the answer is to just not act on the thought and recognize that it is just a thought But it's like when the hell does that stop? Answer me drew when Are you actually answering the question? I'm running out of here now. Yeah, right When does it when does that stop? It's that's that expectation thing. What do you expect to happen? And I think people go into it and they expect like well, you know I'm gonna have my five sessions and that won't be happening anymore It could happen for a long time. There are still times for me for me that I still have that thought I need to balance this right now So I don't know if I could say that they would ever fully ever stop. It doesn't happen on a daily basis for me Yeah, I accept that. I've just accepted that There are times and they're very rare for me still where I may start to feel my anxiety rise in a given situation And the old habits are still there and I will think like I gotta get out of this right now So you may expect because we're talking about expectations and exposure that that may never stop But I can tell you that they will decrease the frequency of those thoughts will decrease and your your ability What you can expect is that your ability to dismiss the thought and just 30 seconds later on to care about the thought anymore The ability to dismiss the thought will increase and the frequency of the thoughts will decrease That's what exposure will do for you and the keys again that is just a fool It's just a thought and you will learn that from experience because when you're out in the real world And you're doing your exposure and you have the thought I gotta get the hell out of here right now And you stand your ground and you don't act on it and you recognize it is just a thought Let it come let it go and you use all your skills The next time you have that thought it'll just be a little easier to dismiss it just a little And then the next time you have that thought it'll be even easier to dismiss it And this is how we learn through experience and that is what you expect to happen in exposure So it won't only help you Look at that look at the way that we brought that back in And so it won't only help you be okay with a racing heart Or well we we're doing it together So it won't only help you with the physical stuff and that the symptoms of panic It will even help you learn to deal with your thoughts. These are all positive things that you can expect to happen You won't think those things as often and when you do think them you won't care as much So that is what you're going to expect I'm playing with my guitar picks as we talk. Um Yeah, what else we got anything else you want to throw at it? Somebody asked a the deep question Is the purpose of it's not that deep? I don't know how deep i'm feeling Oh dear Is the purpose of exposure therapy for everywhere to become a safety zone or to get into the habit of feel the fear and do it anyway It's it's a little bit of both, but it's mainly yeah, it's mainly the second one Um, it's not a I'll I'm gonna modify that a little bit It's not learning the habit of feel the fear and do it every anyway because that implies that you'll always be afraid And that's another thing. This is good. This is another thing that people expect like I'm supposed to do this every day Right. They are spot on the viewers. I love the viewers. So hey A lot of people feel that like Okay, great. So I can learn to go to the supermarket the shopping mall whatever and but I'm afraid when they do it But okay, I'll learn to do it. That's cool. I I can learn to do that Does that does that mean like every time I have to go and buy tomatoes I have to be afraid and deal with it. No So it's not the habit of feel the fear and do it anything because you won't always feel the fear Let's start to go away What once you're once you can do it and then you unmask the fear you see well There's nothing there was nothing to be afraid of the fear will go away So it's not really the habit. It's um exposure therapy is just It's just a way to learn like picking up a book and reading or watching a video It's just a different way to learn you're learning experience And yes, what will happen is the whole world becomes a safety zone a safety zone Exactly the whole world becomes a doesn't matter where I am. I could be on a plane. I could be in Florida I was in North Carolina. I've been in a lot of different places now and maybe I might have a panic attack on the plane I don't know could be But it doesn't matter the plane's as safe as as this office or my house or anything else. So Well, my therapist from like years ago just said That I am the safety zone. So wherever I am. Yes, the safe wherever you are. Yes I've heard a variant of that which is you need to be learned to become your own safe person Yeah, that's another good one too. Yeah, that is a good question. That was kind of deep I don't think my answer was that deep. I'll try and get deeper next time another question. Sure. Yeah Bring it. This is a question that I've seen loads of times. What did your GP diagnose you with and for me I don't think I've ever like officially been diagnosed or labeled With as something it's just that like I've gone there and gone with a complaint whatever it is this week And then just been told. Yeah, that's probably anxiety But I've never been like stamped with you are this So did you you ever get officially diagnosed? Is there such a thing as officially diagnosed as this I'm thinking because they spur off into so many different things like for me Health anxiety Soju anxiety. Sure. I have a phobia panic disorder, right Chuck them all at me What's the difference in a way? Yeah, yeah, me me personally was I were diagnosed. I believe that officially and we're we're way back here than like the mid 90s 96 or so I It was in black and white and really back then your prescriptions were written in stone tablets It was it was they were very heavy very heavy Billy I believe my official diagnosis for my family doctor my GP was panic panic disorder I believe and but I I know that You know if you know anything about the DSM the diagnostic and statistical manual with insurance companies use and mental health practitioners and gps use There's there's panic disorder. There's generalized anxiety disorder. There's panic disorder with agoraphobia There's even agoraphobia without panic disorder. Well, that's pretty rare. So but in the end What does it matter what your diagnosis was? That's what I was thinking. Right. I mean, so I think my official diagnosis was probably panic disorder and at one point it would have been panic disorder with agoraphobia, but What's the difference, you know the the approach is the same Exactly. I mean, it might be a little different when it comes to health anxiety and social anxiety Those are slightly different, but the principles are all still the same health anxiety is a tougher one We'll have to do a couple on health anxiety. Yeah I've said yeah, health anxiety is almost purely cognitive almost purely There's almost no you can't really expose yourself to a heart attack. So Yeah, yeah, there's a forum that I've used in the past and like if you go on there The health anxiety is the busiest section everything Thousands of people just I feel this does anybody else. What is this? What is this right? Yeah, yeah, and even though they look perhaps learn, I know we're going off. No, no, it's okay Like even when somebody says yeah, I felt that it's nothing to worry about It still doesn't register like the next time that it comes back a month down the line I've got this again. Does anybody else get this and this time it must really be a bad thing Last time it was nothing but this time This is the time and I think you know to bring it along to bring it back and we can bring almost everything back to what to expect an exposure If you're dealing with health anxiety exposure is a tough one because It's health anxiety is almost purely a cognitive construct. It's what you think Yeah, it's your interpretation of how you feel. So it's really hard to expose yourself to that in a way So it's a little different animal social anxiety is similar to if you have social anxiety exposure will help you Because you you put yourself into social situations in a controlled way and learn to manage that anxiety and overcome it and those fears, but Um, so what is your diagnosis? Honestly, it sounds really flippant, but I say who cares Jedi Jedi diagnosis supreme You need to be out my friend Yeah, so that's that's my take on diagnosis That's it. Yeah All right, we're we're 38 minutes into it. I guess we should wrap it up that everything we do a comedy special next week We will we're gonna I'm not gonna sing a dance though. Nobody wants to see that Yeah, yeah, I'm sorry So I guess that's the story We're sticking to it Yeah So, you know as always comments questions bring them on if you're watching on billy's channel my channel my Website doesn't ever wherever facebook twitter started adding them to anxiety united.com. Good. That's a good place to start So yeah, I find billy at anxiety united.com find me at that anxiety guy calm and And there's links on both sites to our youtube and our twitter and our facebook and all that stuff. So I'm gonna make an admission Uh-oh We didn't go bowling last week What happened? We just didn't I just I weren't brave enough You just didn't want to go bowling or are you just kind of bail on the bowling? We we sort of we toyed with the idea And it just got later and later in the day And we we we actually got in the car me my daughter and my my wife But my son didn't come he didn't want to go out and we just drove around for like half an hour and then decided Well, I decided Let's knock Wow, so it was there was a loss. It was a big loss Well, I'm admitting it. I am admitting it live. There's no going back.  I went I went to a shop yesterday.  I guess you've got all the contact information everything That's a good story that you shared that I think it's really great. I appreciate you sharing It makes me human. It makes me human. It makes you human, right? It's the even supreme jedi's have their Fall down sometimes it happens and you know what take this as the final the thing that you can take away from this video Is listen to billy's story about how you you're going to go bowling and you decided the 11th hour not to go bowling For whatever reason you bailed on it, right? And it's obviously weighing on you you actually wanted to confess it here on the podcast which is admirable The confessional there are two responses that I could give billy right now So pretend you know, this is just we're not actually face-to-face Two strangers type it in we're on a forum right now type it in I didn't go bowling. I was supposed to go bowling, but I got too scared I sat in the car and I just said I can't do it. What do you advise? Please help me So now trigger warning bowling trigger if you're triggered by bowling So there are two possible responses here and this is what I want everybody to take away Give me the non non drew the non drew response Right. So if you are if you are the person if you are billy and you're looking for like somebody tell me something to make me Feel better here. There's two ways If you're not me, you're gonna say it's okay Nobody nobody understands how that feels they don't know they don't know your wife doesn't know how that feels Thank you. She I dare her to have a panic attack and live through it. We're warriors We don't we don't die easy. I dare them. They don't know we need more awareness of this. It's okay It's okay. Don't let anybody make you feel bad That's that's what most of the time you're gonna see and when you see that in a form run the other way So what I'm feeling what billy's friends should tell him and what I will tell him is you know, you should have went bowling You know that you admitted it here on the podcast for a reason And you know what if I were you I'd go bowling today Even though you don't might not like bowling.  So exactly if we bring it back to our topic of exposure look for people who will support your exposure And there you go That's it. All right. So next time we're going to start the video with a still shot of you bowling No All right, dude, I'll consider it. I'll consider it do it.   So yeah, I You could bowl. I can I'm terrible at it. So All right, we'll see you guys next time. I guess I think we're done. Yeah, we're cool. Yeah, we're out later


Welcome to Toffy TV, this video is sponsored by One Football. One Football's app makes it possible to keep up to date with all the latest stats, transfer news and scores all in the one place. To download One Football's app simply click the link in the description below. Welcome to the news daily, the headlines doing the rounds today. Everton have been linked with a £14 million move for Mitchy Batwai. The bells and striker has returned from Valencia where his loan spell has been cut short. Only managed one goal for Valencia, tried two goals for Valencia in 15 games and they want to pursue different avenues. Now this is a player who has been linked with Everton on a couple of occasions already in his career. He's 25 years of age. I think he's a good fit for us. I think he's a ladw knows where the net is, albeit obviously this season he hasn't been great, but I think he's had a good age now where he needs to put some roots down and play games. I think Marco Silva could get more out of me, certainly an upgrade on what we have in terms of centre forward position. I don't think Dominic Calvert-Lewin is quite ready. I don't know whether Jeng Towson's gonna fit into the way Marco Silva plays and obviously for Charleston, we're not quite sure if he's gonna continue as a main striker or get pushed back out wide. So I think if it's true, if Everton can get a deal for Batwai, a £14 million, I think it'd be a good sign for Everton and it certainly ease those doubts about scoring goals because we do. We are a centre forward shy army and at 25 he's a really good age. He's done really well on loan at Borussia Dortmund last season. Never quite made it a Chelsea, but you know maybe he'd be given a chance at Everton who knows, but interest him on to see whether Everton actually followed that through. Everton have also apparently been knockback this time in the pursuit of Bruno Fernandez according to reports. The player wants to join a Champions League club and obviously Everton are one of those at the moment to sport and Lisbon midfield player. Apparently has lofty ideas in his head on what Everton can offer him at the moment if indeed there was any interest from Everton already. We know this is the time of the year. Lots of these stories are doing the rounds and we're just going to cover them. Nicola Vlasic has laid into Sam Allardyce in his latest interview given to Croatian newspaper. He said that Allardyce played anti-football under Everton played anti-football almost under Allardyce. He said he didn't enjoy playing. You know hardly featured once Ronald Coomham was sacked. He didn't enjoy how Everton played. He said it wasn't the style of football for me so I was out the team and he went on to talk about Everton's transfer policy and said that Everton are trying to win the league. Trying to be like Spares and they're going to continue to buy big money signs until they get it right and he doesn't feel personally that there's any future for them at Goddison Park and who knows obviously only Marco Silva and Marcel Bransnow whether or not they see any long-term value in Vlasic. He's done well on loan at CSK Moscow this season. He's got seven times in 20 games for them including obviously the winner in the Champions League against Real Madrid so we'll have to wait and see what happens with Nicola Day. He may want to stay where he is although there's a few Italian clubs circling as well. Callum Wilson is apparently an injury down for Bournemouth on Sunday as I'm trained with South Coastside today although Ryan Fraser who was allegedly out did train today so you know we'll have to wait and see with that maybe they're just bringing you know taking precautions with Wilson. It'd be a big blow to Bournemouth if he was out to be a big boost to Everton if that was true as well and finally James McCarthy is reportedly interesting West Ham United the Everton midfielder who was back on the bench in the 2-1 win over Lincoln at the weekend hasn't featured for Marco Silva's men this season. Hasn't he's played two 23 games I think and he played a half against Gormaria other than that he's just been training. Marco Silva has did say he was fit all over Christmas and yet didn't use him in any of the Premier League games so we'll have to see if he's in the squad this Sunday obviously from last week's game you'd expect Luca Dean to be back in the squad and Michael Keane as well so you know be interested to see whether James McCarthy gets a place on the bench against Bournemouth or whether you know you'd have to say that if he's not involved on Sunday then you're starting to look and think that maybe just maybe this time has come to an end of Everton who knows it you know it might look that way um we're not getting any kind of action and maybe it'd be best for him to move on to another club but we'll have to wait and see what happens with that just a a little side note if there's any local businesses out there make sure you sign up to Liverpool local business check it out on facebook as well it's just trying to it's like a google for Liverpool basically for local businesses trying to put everything into one place so people can access the local businesses and it's run by gobluno so check that out as well that's it for for all of the news today so we'll have to see if there's anything in some of those stories if you haven't um subscribe please do so now and if you want more videos get over and join us on page and thanks for watching see you soon on Toffy TV


What's up everybody? Jason here for jazzy's case breaks.com. Just sold out jazzy's 14 box summer heat basketball mixture random teams Where we're giving away a $2,500 plus Tatum So as you can see that we're giving away a silver PSA 10 graded Jason Tatum from prism So the way this works guys is that at the end of the break will randomize all 30 customer names top name We'll win the Jason Tatum recent sales of 2750 and 2625 on Friday So there you go. This mixture included below are these boxes here? Remember no veteran common ship from Spectre all the way down to on this retail and again This is a random teams breaks around my customer names and teams and whatever you match up is what team you get So let's do the break first guys Let's roll it and it's a five and a five ten times if you bought a spot straight up Your name is in there if you want these spots in mosaic fast break eight nine and ten you are also in there So good luck. So ten times one two three four five six seven eight nine Ten orange down a Danny. All right ten times here on the list of teams now one two three four five six seven eight nine and ten Clippers down to the pelicans So or any other Clippers ran out of the wars Ties with the bulls or with the trailblazers ties with the spurs Tao with these Pacers Jeremy with the nuggets Stephen with the Thunder jig with the heat Joel with the 76ers Mike with the Raptors Sean with the Celtics Aaron with the Knicks or with the Kings Ryan with the magic Kyle with the T wolves Adam with the nets Ryan with the Hornets Danny with the Suns Aaron with the Mavericks CJ with the Pistons Patrick with the Jazz Sean with the Lakers Zachary with the Hawks or with the Warockets and Grizzlies Last Bob Mojo, you got Tyler right there. He was the first last Bob Mojo. So that's probably why he got that there Bucks Anthony with the Wizards Sean with the Cleveland Cavaliers and Danny got that a mosaic fast break number nine gets the pelicans So there you go So again, if anybody wants to trade this is the time trade windows open I'll give it about a minute or two and in the meantime guys I'm gonna turn on Nick cam and then we're gonna start ripping some of these heavier base boxes So there you go Hornets, love you Ryan. That's funny. So you want to trade for the Oklahoma City Thunder than Kyle? That's what you want So case any any sonics come out. I'm also ribbing this Donner's retail. I think you're from Seattle, right?  It's okay. I understand that I Like the sonics to I'm just more attracted to the color green. So when I was younger I love the Eagles still do. I love the Oregon Ducks and I just like the sonics for basketball But when they were okay, see I just follow them. I said, why not? but I know some Sure hardcore like people that live in Seattle do not like the thunder but You know, it is what it is. I'm sure Seattle get a basketball team back soon But I am excited for the thunder though.  After trade in the boat for Russell They got like draft picks like crazy these next couple years I think they're gonna be just fine All right, Ryan's patrols it proposing. I'll take the Hawks for the magic and Hornets Mack is trying to get the raptors for the hornets Okay, Ryan just just denied that trade Decon saying sons for Hawks So you have a couple options for you Zachary Decon's are trying to trade the sons to you and then Ryan give me two teams for one All right, then so they're no trade them. Okay, you're brown over you're trying to trade the words for the pelicans. I Like that at least try right? I don't think I don't think No, I don't think Decon wants to give up the chance for a xyle. I Don't maybe he will though. Yeah, but there's no curry rookies in this unless we're doing 2009 we will watch and see if you do man. Well, that's what they're gonna go to you So why are you trying to trade them away for them? Let's just get you those curries All right guys, I'm gonna close the trade window now. There you go. That's good luck Remember you still have a chance to win that Tatum and actually it's in our jasmine vault So I don't I can't show it to you guys, but obviously we have the photo of it right there on the description page Yeah, I don't want me to think about the good things that this different years I mean, you gotta think about it now for 1920 stuff. You have a chance to get kairi and like Durant stuff I'm sure in some products here the nets could have some You know Someone just popped into my head. I remember we're rookie. I think carousel avert is a rookie this year, isn't he? In 1415. Oh nice joel. I'm beat right there. We're ready to rookie. That's nice Well, grizzly players in the most recent year. Obviously, there's gonna be jaw Me and Vince Carter, maybe some grizzly stuff. I don't think the grizzly have been sought out Anything before 1920 But nets could have that like I said, they could probably have some maybe paul pierce some type of camongar net stuff Trying to think of maybe new jersey nets, maybe some older vince carter stuff that may pop out Nicholas claxon, obviously the most recent rookie for the nets I think carousel avert's in this product though a little covey and we got But the houston rockets to 149 elite dominators We're rudy tom johnovich like griffin and alford payton to 199 You know what? I think carousel avert is a 1718 Anthony, I think you're lagging a little A little behind like maybe two minutes if you want to refresh your feed Hakeem a la joanne if someone wants to type that in for me Think Anthony may be lagging just a little bit Mike connelly Oh, you are kind of. Yeah. Yeah True in those clothes, man Kevin Durant for the thunder drummin kawai I don't think they do buddy unless it's numbered anios And we got tj warren ready to rookie for the phoenix suns Danny Wanted to trade the suns Damn it rude to go bare shut down the world All right some 1718 retail I think carousel avert to rookie this one that meant to say Jordan bell frank mason Gordon hayward numbered to 99. That's a nice looking color there for the Celtics Shawna Downen Justin Patton John Collins rated rookie Calcuzma rated rookie And Pascal Siaka for the Raptors And you can title the significant financial compensation for your payments at point and other damages Eric White Do you want to do a full set of confidential compensation for the Celtics? A good price of Caller Lydon Do you want to do a fair bit between the two guys? Or a fair bit between the two guys? Or a fair bit between the two guys Or a fair bit between the two guys? Or a fair bit between the two guys? Or a fair bit between each other Pristop's for Zing is nice, that's a gold from a 20-5 for the Mc's Ron Aaron Lonzo ballerader and the rookie The rookie is Marc Quebec's folks Bam of Dubai DeBio, Donovan Mitchell, and Marcus Smart Relic for the Boston Celtics, and Harry Giles for many downs. Sacramento King's gonna horn. Luke Canard. All right. I know Tatum in this. Wow. Shaggy. Usually he's the one in retail. But we still have chances at some more 17-18 products at Chronicles. Coming up soon in Contenders and Select. So a lot of 2017 in this product. All right. Coming up next is Hoops 1819. Doing doing well, man. All right, good luck guys. Nikola Mirchich. Luka Donchich. Hoops. Dallas Maverick's going to air. AK47. Look at that for the Utah Jazz. Hoops Inc. Andrei Karolinko. That was a pretty rad nickname right there. AK47. Utah Jazz without one going to Patrick. Rook Inc. Billy Preston. Cavaliers going to Sean. We got Scotty Pimpin. All right. Status coming up guys. Good luck guys. Kadim Allen to 149 for the Celtics. Nothing crazy Kyle. These are more of the grinder boxes where you just go through them. Although now we got done with the Hoops and all that. Status. Not too bad no more. Especially now with the Rookie class being a little strong. White Sides 299. Luke Canard Rookie. We're going to start getting to some very exciting stuff soon. Even Little to the 299. And DJ Wilson Relic. Kuzma Rookie Lebron. The Curry number down at the Bio Rookie. Ben Simmons. Malik Monk. All right so now that we're done with this guys we're going to go move to Chronicles 1718. Two boxes as you see right there to the left. Then from there we'll skip on to Revolution. And after Revolution guys it's pretty much some pretty exciting stuff. I mean not that Chronicles is an exciting but you got a little Optic Blaster which you never know with blasters. Get some nice hollows in there. You got a 1718 Contenders basketball box. Prism Mosaic. You got Select Little Envelope. You got a Donnerous Choice. 1718 Select Basketball. And to end it off with a 1920 Spectre Box. Still quite a few boxes out there that can definitely turn it around for your teams guys. And then at the end unfortunately if you don't really get much which may happen just to be honest but you have a chance to get that Tatum. Which will pretty much make the break for you. I know it's only going to be one customer but still. You got number two two ninety nine Camp Asmore. We got Justin Patton. Autograph for the T Wolves. Kyle there you go. Justin time man. Luke Knark. Bogan Bogdanovic. Jeff Teague. For the T Wolves. Blake Griffin. Josh Hart. Autograph for the Lakers. Lakers. What a shot. Earrings box. Here it goes. Should just be a relic but never know. Rogolopas. And nice. Oh two color relic there. One eighty nine for this first. And we got a Donovan Mitchell. Number Tromagestic. And a Daniel Deese. Junior. Our next Chronicles box. Harris for the Pistons. And we got a Kalkusma autograph for the Lakers. Very nice. Another one there for the Lakers. For the Knicks. There we go. So I've carried to one ninety nine. Two fifty. Alec Peters. Autograph for the Phoenix Suns. And we got T.J. Leaf to two forty nine. Markels Volts. Lonzo Ball. Kuzma. We got Lebron. And we got a Tyler Dorsey to ninety nine. Lana Hawks. And Malik Monk Relic. Our first Tatum sighting. To ninety nine. At a pinnacle. Boston Celtics. Shaman down. Let's go to Revolution guys. This is eighteen nineteen Revolution. Now this is Chinese New Year as well. All right Tim Hardaway. Malvin Frazier. Shai. Little New Year feel. John Wall. Vante Graham. Lonnie Walker. Wow that's a one out of eight Lonnie Walker. New Year. It's pretty nice. Spurs. And a Tice. Jaren Jackson Jr. Stuff Curry. Bottom and Mitchell. Yandere 8. Alrighty guys. Here we go. Let's move on to the to the bigger stuff. Good luck. Let's go a little nineteen twenty blaster optic. Bruno Fernando Hallow. For the Hawks. Kobe White. All right let's go to some prison mosaic. Seventeen eighteen. Good luck. Jackson. Wilson. Payton. Sard. And Darryl Gross. All right let's go with some contenders. Seventeen eighteen. You can pull some fire in here guys. I haven't seen any seventeen contenders in so long. These boxes must be pretty pricey now though. All right good luck guys. We got Tobias Harris. Little Chrome. Steve Nash. Yanis under the compo. That's cool. Look at that little Yanis there. Out of two forty nine. Playoff ticket. Bucks Gwyneth Tyler. Up and coming. TJ Lee for the Pacers. Tal with that one. Paying the numbers game. Anthony Davis. You got Chris Dunn. Anthony Davis. Yandere Jordan. That's out of ten for the Clippers. One of Horan. Bradley Beal. To two forty nine. Derek White. To ninety or to thirty five sorry. Playoff ticket. A little horizontal. Spurs. Tyce Allen winning ticket. Harden. Oh did I really I was just winging that one. I'm not the best when it comes to that but I figured it'd be something like that. Thank you man. I always like to ask too just in case I don't want to offend anybody but all right we got one two three four more boxes about uh let's go with Select and then the night off with all two thousand nineteen stuff there. And Ronde Hollis Jefferson from the Brooklyn Nets.  And we got a Silver Ivan Rabb. Andre Drummond Premier level. Got Reggie Jackson for the Detroit Pistons to one forty nine. Robin Lopez. D. Lil.  You got a Terence Ferguson to forty nine for the Thunder. Gallinari. Blood so. And there you go speaking of Karis Lever. There you go. I think he's a rookie in this. In flight signatures Karis Lever for the Brooklyn Nets. For one ninety nine. He's a stud too. We got Elias Silva for the Hawks. Raymond Fowlen scopes. We got a redemption. Let's see who the redemption is. All right let's see. Good luck guys. Rookie Jersey autographs. Card number thirty five. D. Donovan. Is that Donovan Mitchell? Yes it is. Donovan Mitchell. And it did expire last year in September but I'm sure like I said they have it. They will redeem it for you if they don't they'll give you some points. But there you go. Rookie Jersey autographs. Little RPA. Donovan Mitchell. Utah Jazz going to Patrick. That's a nice one. All right a couple more boxes guys. All right let's go some Daunus. We got Willie Kalu Stein to ninety nine. You got Andre Drummond to ninety nine. And Tobias Harris to ninety nine. First autograph we have with Daniel Gafford at thirty five for the Bulls. And we got DeAndre Hunter and it is a gold one out of ten. That is nice beautiful. Look at that. Very nice for the Hawks. Tread of trade. Zachary. There you go man. You got Chumo Kiki. Kevin Porter Jr. Cameron Johnson. Jordan Poole. And Jared Colver. Very nice. All right two more boxes guys. Let's try the select. Little envelope. Just two exclusive cards and I think they're both numbered to eight. All right we got Quenduri Witherspoon. And James Harden. So Spurs having a pretty good break. Eight of eight. Little eBay one-on-one. And James Harden. Three out of eight for the Houston Rockets. Orin with that one. There you go. All right last box guys. Last last box of the Mixer Spectra. Taco Rookie. Orin Drogic Silver. And for the Spurs. More for the Spurs. That's about one. All right first two hits. Pages Dordakovic to 75. Sacramento King going to Orin. And we got Charlie Ward to 25. Or to 75 sorry. Nix. All right last two. Hopefully at least one rookie in here. All right we got Talon Horton Tucker to 99. And Igaris Garland Silver for the Cavaliers. All right good luck guys. First two hit. Last two hits sorry. We got James Silas for the San Antonio Spurs. What a great break for the Spurs. Lot a lot of hits. And the last hit here. We have a Ja Moran 57 out of 99. Wish it would have been a nicer patch but there you go. Still a little RPA. Nice way to end the night. Orin with the Grizzlies. There you go. Not bad.  That was the 14 box summer heat basketball mixer. Now remember you used to have a shot to Wendy Jason Tatum which is a $2,500 plus value. And again I don't have it here. It's in the Jaspy Vault. Nick will get it out tomorrow. So again everybody has a shot at this Tatum right here as you see on the description or on the photo. It's not loading but it's right there. And again everybody has a shot at it guys. So here are the customer names that are part of it. Customer number one gets it. And it's going to be after three and three six times. Good luck guys. One, two, three, four, five, and six. Six times. Three and a three. Ryan Shackleton. Look at that. Getting that from Mosaic. Fast break number nine after six times. Three and a three. Congratulations buddy. You're going to get that Jason Tatum sent out to you. Appreciate it guys. Jaspy's casebreaks.com.


Thanks for watching the 2018 Summer Spectacular. With me now is Langston Dillo, the newly crowned amateur classic challenge champion. How do you like the sound of that? Sound pretty awesome. Now a 223, a great run. In the amateur it doesn't get better than that. How did that run feel? Amazing. Compared to some of the other runs that I've had, that was definitely a special one on that horse. Can you take us through it? Describe how it felt on your three cows. Well my first cow was a grey skunk tail and the whole time during my run I just wanted to stay clean and up and not get pushed back into the herd and my second cow was a grey cow and my last cow was just a black cow. Honestly it's all blurry now but I just wanted to stay clean and ride my horse and not overdo anything. Okay now you won this same event or you co-won it with Jim Van Gilder and the Superstakes. At 15, it's a great achievement. There'll be many people who try to do that in a whole lifetime. What does this win mean to you? It means a lot and especially on that horse, I mean I love the other horse as well but this one, he's got a special place in my heart. Okay that's High Style and CD you're talking about. Trained by Kenny Platt? Yes ma'am and in training with Colin Charter. So how long have you had the horse? A year at the show.  What is it that you do with the horse to have so much success? To be honest here I don't really know. He just ends up doing his job all the time and it helps a lot to have a horse that wants to do it all the time. So it's just some good chemistry between you guys? Yes ma'am. Now what has Colin taught you about showing? What is it that you know you're obviously really performing at the moment? What is it that he really tries to emphasize? Just being clean and not overdoing everything because sometimes I like to get going a little too fast and so he tries to make me slow down a little. And how does he try to do that? Because that's something that a lot of people struggle with. Just yell at me. Obviously it's working. Okay. Now you've had a cracking year because you have already won some $90,000. $120 total but $90,000 this year already. Thanks ma'am. What are your plans? To be honest with you, just try to finish out the year and keep going strong and hopefully keep doing stuff and hopefully just keep progressing on that horse. Well you've won $80,000 to $90,000 just in this event alone.  Yeah, I'm thankful to be able to show and so I try to keep up my hand at the deal. Have you got any more finals or what about the youth? I wasn't able to make the youth but I have two tomorrow and I'm only at five or six. Well good luck with that and what a great run. Thanks so much for joining us. Thank you.