Okay, so that was seconded by Mr. Wilkard of Worcester any any for the discussion about this All in favor Opposed abstaining motion passes unanimously Now this is the one Developing some financial oversight procedures and once again, I mean because we are talking about finances I am looking for permission from the board to do this sort of stuff I'm not going to just assume Responsibility over the board's money without permission so the CVI so this is a motion here I moved the CVI finance committee will develop and submit to the full board for approval a set of policies and procedures designed to assure the integrity and Transparency of revenues and expenses the committee may if necessary Implement these policies and procedures prior to initial approval except that such action does not create a precedent In other words let the committee develop our policies and procedures for working within the committee We will bring them back for permission, but if we come up with something we need to be able to start working with it right away Okay, so there's there's a motion second get seconded by Gilbert Worcester thoughts I do have one quick question With no familiarity on what the appropriate regulations are for an organization such as this Are there any standards that we are held to like gas be fast be earlier that other stuff should we so state in the motion? The gas be part actually I've got another sheet. I'm not going to introduce you No, I just because I have another sheet where I actually did start to write up a set of proposed policies and procedures that will go back to the Finance committee that does deal with the gas be part of that itself as a policy procedure thing We're not legally I don't think we're required to do it, but I mean gas be It's there. It's there Yes, so what I would say in the interest of simplicity. I like the motion I just like to close the door on gas be fast be and also make sure that we pay particular attention to internal controls Because that's the area where most Organizations get tripped up. Okay. Can I can I ask them that if you keep that in mind? Can we revisit that when we come back with the Distractor in any way enter up the proceedings here. No, I Understand where you're going and I agree with you I just would like to change the room back under another format Yeah, if that's what you're looking for and can I recommend that you two connect Separate from the meetings so that Bob if you can take your concerns and any sort of specific advice and Tips and tricks that they can take and while they're crafting these bits and pieces then they can bring it back I'll give you a trail map because I don't have internet Why do you think I'm here IP over passenger pigeon, I don't care You have a phone, right? It's a cell phone Cell service Actually in my house I appear to be in the overlap area and if I move Three or four feet from one side to the other I get a dropped call. It's a real circus That sounds super fun. Any other comments about the Rama's motion about the finance committee developing financial oversight policies and procedures at out. I'll take those and know All in favor opposed Abstaining motion passes unanimously Okay, now these last two this next one is over. It's important because it is in the statute. We need to take care of it So the motion is the CVI governing board directs a treasurer to create a as soon as practicable Capital reserve fund with an initial balance of zero dollars or more So That's a that's a motion Orange it is required under the enabling statute Check, you know 30 BFJ chapter 82 30 78 Subsection B that we create this it's there Thank you act 46 introduced me to the word practicable That word because actually if you look it up in the dictionary It is so handy for those things that you want to do when they're possible to be done successfully And that's essentially what practicable means so rather than saying, you know, right now go out and set up that fund You know, it's as you get to it when it's possible to set it up All the statute says is we have to set it up. It doesn't say by any given day Okay, so there's a motion about the treasurer creating that Capital reserve funds according to statute need further discussion Okay, hearing none all in favor Opposed abstaining motion passes unanimously This last one that I have here and I don't know this one may take some discussion So I'm just gonna not making the motion yet. Let me just read what I wrote down for the motion because it's got some So the motion that I would present is The CVI governing board appoints the following persons as receivers of funds of any lawful type from any lawful source Then it goes blank blank and the CVI treasurer such funds shall not be considered received by the central Vermont internet Until one of the list of persons has control of the funds I I That would be my initial other than the fact I got two blanks in you know, so I This is one I have to just bring up and put out there for some conversation to see There's receipt and there's disbursement Do you want to deal with them in separate issues or do you want to make that into this single directive? No, because the disbursement would be will be handled actually by the treasurer by definition by the treasurer and with the oversight of Presumably somebody from the finance committee or maybe somebody that that will be part of these policies and procedures that would actually come up This part though is you know about bringing in money, and I don't feel that that should be a committee decision So and disbursement also that also always has to be approved by the board You would get it that that's fine. I'm from a I'm from a world where Various responsible managers and executives were given what was called signatory authority They didn't have to go dancing down to the treasurer to spend up X amount of money on Pre-budgeted items, and I don't know if we want to get to that level of internal controls, and I think we will at some point I don't think that's today. All right. This is on the receipt. This is on the receipt of money. Yeah This is just for receiving. Yeah, I raised I raised the issue of disbursement as to whether or not that should be a separate and distinct thing Which I would recommend. Yeah So who should those people be I mean currently? Currently the finance chair has signatory power on the design checks to sign checks Didn't we agree on this last month when we did the treasurer? That's this that's the signatory bit But actually to this for him to open for him to receive funds and I may not be the best person to you know I mean it may be that the business development committee when they're out Raising funds or I may be that we may have people specifically designed to Raise funds who should be the ones, you know, they're going to be out the people out Asking for money from folks. Those should be the ones that are receiving the funds Experiments here, but what does it mean to receive funds in this case? So for example, if we had like an Indie go-go account or something like that We're receiving money to money directly to an account. Is that through you or is that separate or I? Don't You mean money that's intended for CVI. Yeah, I would I would suggest that if we have anything set up like that Where people could just automatically? Put money in without any interaction from us that that be something that be under the sole control of the Treasury Period I can I can give you a specific example Town meeting this year. I had somebody walk up to me and say I want to donate money And I said Hold that thought we need a bank account first and an organization first and a whole bunch of other things first And I said hold on so if somebody wants to donate They just want to write us a check if we have subscribers at some point I mean they're going to write a check Somewhere somebody is going to be you know if they could do direct deposit great or you know direct bill paid great But if they write a check somebody is going to have to be able to pick up That money and call it received and deposit it then so I think this is a reasonable first step I don't think it's earth shattering, but I think we need more than the treasure probably two or three people my my thought of this is that I know a couple of you in here fairly well and You know you're all We've all done municipal things in the past. Do we want to require a background check for people who are receiving money on for the district Does that make sense or is that something that we should wait on? But we could ask each person to you know to pay for it themselves initially or something we can we can figure it out So so so here's I mean the way towns that way towns would do it the way a lot of times do it is they actually bond So we just make sure that we have you know the people who are receiving money bonded That's another another alternative to but a financial background check That's not that's something that's done with some town treasurers Although even if they fail their background check, there's not much you can do because they're elected officials But so I mean it's it's a thought I Think this is probably fraught with more questions, and we're gonna have answers to What I mean we do one of two things we could say the finance committee is gonna grapple with this and try to ask Questions to figure out what we really want to do if we want to stop gap measure I would suggest we have the officers appointed to be people who can't receive money on behalf of the organization So this the statutory officers the chair vice-chair On the theory that there's a certain level of trust in the officers and Okay That's just a suggestion. I mean if we really want to start to see the money in we think it's important to do it tonight That's what I would suggest So That maybe So then how about this for emotion the CDI governing board appoints the chair vice chair Treasurer and clerk as receivers of funds of any lawful type from any lawful source Such funds shall not be considered received by the central Vermont Internet until one of the listed persons has control of the funds Sounds like a motion Seconded by Mr. Healy Yeah, should there be a second person involved a The second person involved in receiving the money Verifying that the first person received it so that it that's that's a check and balance That would have yet the need for a background check Less chance of two people conspiring to steal Yeah, that's my thought Jeremy was and a check for $500. It's a good question. I don't know. I'm just trying to imagine how we could If some philanthropic person handed somebody on the board a check away from public meeting I don't know how we would We would issue a receipt for that check Yeah, perhaps maybe more formally in the form of a letter acknowledging the gift or donation but That written amount would verify the amount that was given would provide the paper trail that goes along with the money that's sort of the standard cash receipts so the donor would expect a receipt and Yeah, and the receipt would come from the board as opposed to the person received it's tax deductible I mean they're going to want something they're going to want to receive But it does raise about well, I don't want because you know we get to what happens if people start handing you 20 and 30 Dollars here and there right but we can worry about that or not at some future date Yeah, people handing cash is probably a terrible idea And we probably should refuse it. I actually had the same thought and from school board procedures There's always someone from the school board who will Uh, basically go through bills and receipts basically doing a Reconciliation on the account on a monthly basis presented by the treasurer or business manager in that case, so That could be a way where we have two people Looking through everything that's come in everything that's gone out and signed off on it I think I think that's a that's a good idea. That's I mean we do the same thing on the select board One of the things we do is we get a big stack of all the outbound checks it's like Here's you know, here's all the money that's going out and we make formal motions to Send those checks or to issue payroll or to make changes to the bank account and that sort of thing So I think that's I think that's probably the sensible move once there's something coming in Well, I'm kind of hoping that as we get into it that that will be delegated to the finance committee And that seems like a to make sure we can get bills paid when we start getting bills We'll be successful when we get those right All right So that there's that motion on the table about accepting funds Any other discussion? Okay, hearing none all in favor opposed Abstaining motion passes unanimously and the last thing mr. Gilbert and because and I just say I I'm not even thinking about presenting my version of it because what I have is is a more detailed and I would need actually some time in a presentation Yeah, well, let let me just say what I've done and I've emailed it to everybody So you should have it if you can log on to your computers if you really want to see it This is this is not a major work of intellectual fortitude or anything What I did was I just went through all the stat the the statute the enabling statute we have 30 vsa And I picked out all the things that had A task to which time Completion was assigned and I just I just made a narrative. It's two and a half pages It literally goes a month by not every month, but any of a number of months And then it also includes what I call recurring tasks Which is things like for every regular meeting for a special meeting And then there are some annual things to do and then there are some at any time things to do An example of an at any time is a certificate of public good must be obtained from the PUC Before the district sells any service using a communications plan For the most part I steered away from using the statutory language I tried to put it in English that we can all understand and talk about But I do give the citation in my list. So if you want to go look at the statute and see what the language is Particularly if you think I've misinterpreted You should definitely do that and let me know But it's it's not a complicated document and I think connected with with what ron is working on which is a much more Detailed sort of task oriented document the two things together where we've got them finalized will be useful And I suspect that there's some other stuff that could be included in here Maybe longer term of like a generic municipal responsibilities and These things that we have to do or have to think about too, but I really appreciate That you're boiling this down because actually as I was drafting The annual report draft that we have I went to look at this and I I realized like oh, we actually have to hold a public hearing And invite the legislative bodies of the town is in the cities to come and comment on this Like better put that in as an invite at the very end So great So I would encourage all of you to take a look at that that should have come and email to everybody looks like Yeah, so thank you for that anything else Rama for finance committee Well, I'll turn to my fellow finance committee members if you guys have anything else to bring up Okay, thank you very much moving on to resolving conflicts of interest This Actually relates back to discussion. We were having just a few minutes ago About organizational names and trade names And I don't know if I have enough of these for everybody. So maybe if you could go Every other person I discovered a short time ago that mr. Whittaker Had registered central Vermont internet As a trade name with the secretary state's office I think believe it was the day after town meeting day So this body was essentially authorized by the votes on town meeting the following day He registers that name as a trade name with doing business as his nonprofit corporation, which is design access network um It's certainly not up to me to Determine whether or not this rises to a conflict of interest, but it does concern um I think it's something that you should have disclosed You've had a lot of months to do that But I guess I'd like to start out. I'm sure some other people have some questions for you. It's that What was your motivation doing that? It's uh Was a decision between the board members of Of the nonprofit And I'll leave it to you leave it at that I'll leave it at that Wow, it seems to me then that the board members of your nonprofit Intentionally, we're trying to create confusion With this organization possibly compete against the organization doing business as taking literally It just seems like A reach That That had to come from somewhere. So you presented that to your board of directors And thought that was a good idea So so hold on. Yeah So that we can follow rules of rules of protocol If I can please call on people that want to talk and we're going to wait for everybody To be able to weigh in before a person talks for a second time Okay, so We got that um phil Shabana what nonprofit are we talking about? It's called design access network incorporated It's the same partners mr. Whittaker mr. O'Larkin and Um Your attorney, I believe Mr. Slough, okay Hey, where are we going with this? I think he has a conflict of interest. Oh, okay Jerry I can't but Help but also point out the typical and consistent disruptive behavior Of mr. Whittaker towards this body There is appears to me which is speculation That there's a real pattern of behavior that is quite trolls I don't know what can be done about it, but I believe it needs to be noted outright We keep the same bag Mr. Whittaker out of the consistent behavior Pattern that's interruptive disruptive non-respective to other members of the board and the volunteers that are trying to help the organization And I want that on public record Okay, I don't know if this is actually a conflict of interest in fact For say but it definitely is I mean we should be pursuing uh, you know Contesting the dba or the trade name that this is under because it's clearly It's clearly would be rejected. It should be rejected today So in fact that we have that's the name that this Union communication union is certified under it whether it has any of what the uh What the intent was or not it doesn't matter it certainly creates confusion the thing that does concern me and it's like I just don't know how to even I'm just very upset All this time you find every reason mr. Whittaker to say And call out just about every aspect of anyone's process or things that you disagree with pretty vehemently And yet you keep this on your head where we just supposed to discover this on our own I guess we should have I mean that's maybe the implication. I don't know It's very concerning and it's also to what end like Mr. I guess I don't I don't know what that you might Suggest to the board members that they surrender it if So I would like to recognize mr. Whittaker. Yeah, please please please respond. I just think it's a non-issue I think if you wanted if you want to do business under that name you ask them For it if you want to do business under cv fiber, it's in the tariff Oh, hold on. Hold on. Hold on. Is there I want I want to let him finish so that we can I'm not going to Stoop to the You know character assassination Probably yeah, I A couple of things is I because The vote was held for the name when the vote was held the name central brahman internet was put on the Tower, right, right I would I would say that it's probably a good case to If we have a couple thousand dollars to walk into court and contest that dba Simply on the basis that His connection with the organization The vote the timing of the filing for the dba whether or not it was a decision of the board or not I think it's something that we could contest if we so choose to The other part is that if people feel that Any individual on this board whether Whether it's a delegate or an alternate is being Whatever reasons that being considered disruptive or Whatever we we are allowed to request that the appointing municipality To remove them from their position That's our sole remedy on this that you know that's We can't remove somebody from From this board whether they're an alternate or a delegate So if people do feel that there is an issue in conflict of interest if we feel that there's an issue with disruption Then it should just be a simple board decision to request that the city among people are removed. Mr. Whitaker from any Seeding at the table for central brahman internet Because that that's all we're That's that's all we're allowed to do having said that is I hope that and I do agree that We need to be very careful about not questioning motives Because motives that to us may seem really obnoxious and a pain in the butt could make a whole lot of sense to the individual Trying to get something done in their own way. So I just hope we stay away from the motives stick to what it is that we're trying to accomplish and One of the things that we're trying to accomplish is a secure organization and part of that organization is the name central brahman internet Regardless of who decides to go to the secretary of state's office That's all I got Anybody else that hasn't spoken yet that wants to weigh in on this So steven if I could ask Do you feel it's a conflict of interest that you have registered? the name central brahman internet So And it's not I that have registered and it is Designed access network. So I can't speak. I'm not authorized to speak unilaterally, but you represent that organization When authorized to but you're asking me to and so so can can we avoid the kind of Interrogative if you want to if you have some comments or it's like a like a package of questions If you can ask that and then you can come back around and answer those I think that would be More helpful and more well, I don't know how to do this otherwise, but I'll suggest that we have A conflict of interest that hasn't been disclosed And that what rama was just suggesting that gives us I mean we we can always ask a municipality to no longer Have a certain person represent the municipality, but I think that gives us strong grounds to ask that my failure Not represent not have Steven as as a delegate or has a Alternate I'm If I could just have a point of privilege here. I'm really disappointed Steven.  Oh point of order. He's entitled to speak. Please continue Adam. That's all I have to say Okay Are we allowed to ask questions? I mean, obviously I just asked you a question, but So Point of order, you can always ask the chair about procedure. That's that's okay If the if the board is is okay with it and Steven if you're willing to respond to it with sort of a more Question and answer once the question is finished the answers come if everybody's okay with that I'm happy to sort of relax our Our format is everybody generally Okay Our policy on conflicts of interest provide The governing board shall be afforded an opportunity to ask the board member questions regarding the conflict of interest and to discuss the Same it's all done easily enough. Thank you Why did you do this? It was a decision made The collaboration with other directors Were you part of that decision? I was What was the reason behind the decision? Uh to keep the discussion open about whether or not the use of the word internet puts us in an untenable position of this puts the Communication to your district In an untenable position of selling regulated telecommunication services So it is it is got there is rationale. There is a legal basis I think I've said at the first meeting that this board needs legal counsel Obviously rock can't be legal counsel to this board But this needs to be this and the public records issue raised with the last week need to be This board needs it legal counsel not a bunch of amateurs arguing over their interpretation of the law And why did you wait For this to come out instead of telling this to the board at the first meeting The board the organization didn't exist until today Oh, please Okay, quick questions and answers will suffice. Thank you Thank you John Quinn is up next. My question was why didn't you disclose it? I mean if you had You know an honest Intent here. Why didn't you just disclose that you had registered the name? We've had the discussion several times I think that only time that would be necessary would be if there was a decision made by design access network to Use that name in trade That would create a conflict right now. There isn't one Anything else John? Rahman, did you have something or I'll let somebody go first because I have a motion Michael I have one question. Um Are you prepared to relinquish that dba? to this board today That's not my decision to make would you recommend it to your partners? After I consulted with them, would you recommend it? Okay, so so before we have a motion if we if you can indulge me rama. Is there is there anybody else who has questions? Okay so I I would move that the CVI board chair requests Montpelier city council removes steven wittaker from any position on the central vermont internet board of our governing board Second that was Schneider and gilbert from cabot Okay, any further discussion really Nothing else. I would just like to say i'll find and my two short meetings you have been Generally a hostile member of this board and totally unproductive and I will definitely vote for that motion My comment is that if if well, I guess you're this isn't based on the perceived conflict the motion does not be based on the conflict so It doesn't matter whether you get Legal advice whether there's a conflict or not there Okay Any other comments Hearing none all in favor, um, I would like to do this with a show of hands or would you prefer to just do a voice vote? You'd have a preference. All right, let's do it by voice and if it's we can't figure it out Then we'll do it by a show of hands. So all in favor say aye abstaining Okay, so um at the record show it was unanimous except for two abstentions Okay, so we're still talking about conflicts of interest and I think it behooves us to Lay anything out on the table. There's anything else if people are Suspicious that there are conflicts of interest of other board members If there are board members that know they have conflicts this would be the time to to bring them out yeah So as I said in the first meeting I am the state cio and the state does have Well, not my agency. There are parts of state government would have some regulatory authority over the board So to lay it out on the table just so everyone's still aware. I'm still the state cio at least today And um, secondly my family owns trans video cable and worth Which I think some of you already know anyways, but just to lay it out That which provides internet to 1500 people So so maybe in so in terms of votes you would want to recuse yourself from if you wanted to if you wanted to Mention what what sort of circumstances could you imagine recusing yourself? because of those conflicts I don't know I can't think of anything besides, you know I guess if there was a discussion and a decision to compete with trans video in northfield, I would absolutely recuse myself if there was Maybe a discussion on Funding around the state everyone asking for funds. I would probably recuse myself those types of things I think that makes sense. If you have any questions for john while we're talking about this. Yeah Just do you have any financial investment in trans video? Or is it just family members own it not today? And and at the next meeting I'll disclose if that changes but there would be none directly in that business Yeah, can I ask if your family or the sole owners of the company? Yes, and can you define family here? Uncle and aunt. Okay, great Thank you. Any other questions for john? Yeah back Mine isn't for john. Um, just We just had a motion passed to do something, but nobody was assigned to do it. No, it was in the motion I was assigned to do it. Okay. Got it. Thank you Okay, it's my turn unless unless anybody still has questions for john Are you responsible for signing internet contracts for the state of ramon? For services network network services, absolutely. So that'd be another area of that You taking comments on these individual conflicts or absolutely This is this is the time to to put things out there if you have a question for john We are we are going through the process as described in our conflict of interest policy that the board will have the opportunity to This is something that I have Alluded to in a couple of meetings In effect part of the reasons that our Communications are so deficient around the state is the state's failure to complete telecommunications planning according to statute and And also which agencies are supposed to do what public service department is supposed to do planning Uh Dii is supposed to manage networks and we have a situation where public safety is running networks and public in person that was Under john supervision was granted a 25 million dollar 25 year contract to So, I mean is there a question about the conflict that yeah, well, it's not a question It's basically there's a blatant conflict here and that Apologists for failed planning at the state level cannot help but affect what we aspire to do Uh, we can't work double time So hold on hold on point point of order point of order. I've been involved in this for 25 years And we this a this entity will not survive if Be able to effectively compete or build If the failures to implement open access fiber rules Expedited pole attachment to speed resolution all of this falls under John's purview. Okay. So because there's no question. I would like to to wrap this up So Jim, do you have the rules or procedure? Hold on a second Do you have the rules of procedure in front of you about conflicts that define what a conflict of interest is? Would you would you read that definition, please? For the purpose of this policy a conflict of interest means a direct personal or pecuniary interest of a governing board member Is our first house household member business associate employer or employee In the outcome of a college proceeding application or any other matter pending before the governing board for the governing board member The conflict of interest does not arise in the case of votes or decisions on matters In which the governing board member has a personal or pecuniary interest in the outcome of a voter decision That is no greater than that of other persons generally affected by the decision Okay, thank you for that and the reason I wanted you to to read that is that um, I I understand The I understand where you're coming from and some of the commentary that you're saying I don't necessarily agree with it or sort of understand the all the background of the context But I don't think that what you're describing there Is to a conflict in the definition that we have in our policy or the definition that matter at several places in statute So there was a there was a comment. John. Did you want to respond? Yeah, I'm not Really going to respond to say, you know, everything said wasn't necessarily accurate as far as what my responsibilities are Makes decisions about Some of the decisions made I advise the governor on technology But as far as, you know, who makes, you know, who drives decision on first steps and things like that You know, so I would just take everything that he said really grand itself Okay, does anybody have any other questions for john about conflicts of interest Okay, Michael, I believe you wanted to to talk now. Yes. Um, I think you all know that I have an MMS service provider on two counts In central vermont in our region I'm one of five owners of cloud airlines which is a fixed wireless internet service provider serving dozen towns And So as such What we as a body are doing is setting up something that ultimately will compete with my own company So I have a structural conflict of interest there Um, why am I on the board? To be honest for one thing to look out for my company a little bit, but also because I believe in this mission So I think that I can contribute. I think you I hope hope you agree that I have up till now And I intend to continue And I also intend to recuse myself from any discussions that are directly about my company and And I will take advice from others if they think that I Missed the opportunity to recuse myself number one number two the second company is came in fiber, which you're all aware of as well because I presented it to you in that primer Kingdom fiber does not Conflicts with central vermont fiber in that the geographic region is different Um, but there's always the potential not the likelihood but the potential The kingdom fiber or even cloud alliance Could end up being a collaborator with this board's efforts It could be some version of a valley net for this board's efforts And as such if that were to come up, I would recuse myself from those decisions as well Yeah, I don't have a conflict to disclose, but I do want to say that with these conflicts This has all been actually anticipated in the enabling law and I say this because I've been introduced now to be chapter 82 What is that 30 bsa to a third way of voting on committees the basic way of voting Defined under law of the way the boards and committees vote under law is You have to have a majority of the board members present in order to have a quorum And a majority of the board members not just those that are present But a majority of the board members have to vote to agree on something for it to pass you that's the default way For school boards it changes a little bit there because now you don't have to have a majority of the board members to have something pass you just have to have a majority of the of the quorum to have something passed Under chapter 82 The third way is we have to have the quorum to have the meeting and be able to hold a legally voted binding vote but The vote passes based upon the votes of those casting votes In other words the anticipation is that there are going to be people that come in here with conflicts of interest They'll have to sit back and say I can't vote if we sat here in the whole room And we had a question and this is really how the law reads if you go back and look at it And everybody but three of us Had conflicts of interest those three people would be the deciding voters So I I just say that this is anticipated So having the conflicts is fine We'll just have to be aware of them and people have to step back from decision making So, um, I I'd like if we could if anybody has any questions for michael We will get back to you john say maybe any questions for michael I I have one which Towns as cloud alliance operated and could therefore conceivably be competing Yeah I can read them and you can say yes or no Oh here Berrytown, berlin, cadet, calis, east mount pilier, marshfield, playing field And that's it. Okay, so that's more than half of them. Thanks for that any other question Michael I'm sorry. I just have a question. Yeah, I I have found you very helpful. Um, you seem quite reasonable I think the only thing that I Would ask is if at some point the course of this Um, this body goes in direct conflict i.e It's no longer It could mean the end of your company or Or a major combatants to your company for business Would you seem it reasonable to resign or do you feel like you could still Carry on and help help the cause as you as you put it in terms of if it gets to the point where It could cause you financial harm for our success Um, is that something that you would envision saying it's time for me to I I already know it will cause my company financial harm and i'm accepting that Um, I think I'll be able to continue to serve the board. Um, there is There are possibilities for flat alliance and cd fiber could cooperate and find find solutions that are win-win And I would hope for that, but I you know, I can't demand it Um, so I think I think um until there's an obvious Fatal conflict. I don't see a need to design About asking for I'm just no, I know that I'm just thinking out loud with you. I I I think it'll be fine, but um it gets to Some kind of nasty point. Well, no I'll bail but I don't think it will. I mean I have confidence in us, but We'll see thank you I I think the other thing to keep in mind though is that I think it's the responsibility of this board to make sure your town is adequately represented And it could get to a point where Even though you think you can manage the conflict that's there you might not actually be able to Adequately represent your town And I can't think of an example But I can imagine a town's person Somebody from your town coming to this meeting when you're not voting on it on an endless number of issues wondering what's going on here And I I think it would be the responsibility of this board to possibly Address that which is why I think our conflict of interest policy has that clause that says we can get in touch with your Municipality and suggest maybe the person should be should be replaced with somebody else. So I'm Thank you. So I'm good with that When I when the town Looked to appoint the delegate They didn't just Pull me out of a hat. They actually interviewed A bunch of people And I presented to them at that time There will be a conflict of interest to find the delegate and I do intend to accuse myself from any Conflicting issues and they were comfortable with it But that could change and the board could contact the town or the town could complain and in either case I would be responsive to that. I don't think there's any differences From john's conflict with with with trans video. It's We're gonna steal customers from trans video too And um his company's bigger than mine I'm I'm yeah His aunts and uncles business is bigger than cloud alliance even though it only serves a couple of towns or one Is it just in northfield? Yeah. Yeah, um, we we don't have to do matter customers. So We're facing the same sorts of things and I think we'll both I know john and I will both be responsible towards that But but the board has the right to call us on it. I I'd also like to point out we have alternates For both towns So if we if you if you guys anticipate that there are going to be votes that you're going to have to accuse yourself on just make sure that Jeremy shows up I'll make sure that Mark shows up Good point. I I just wanted I I'm not being critical of anything you folks have done I'm praising the fact you Disclose this. I'm just trying to think of the responsibility. We might have as a board to the towns I mean, we're an odd duck, you know, these communication union districts I'm not sure what an identity we really have and whose interests we're supposed to be But I think in this In this instance, we have a great responsibility To the communication union district generally and to the individual towns who we feel might not be able to be adequately represented Because somebody is not able to vote on 60 percent of the things that are coming up But I think Jeremy's point is it's good. There are alternates that can be used when this possibly might be coming up Okay, your next Yeah, I I think I'm just going to speak to a he said about, you know, they're being processes around us and You know, this is no different than a do your local select board, right? You know, when they're talking about your property, whether it's drainage or, you know issues Plowing, you know roads you refuse yourself When they talked about my family business as a select board chair, I recused myself You know that I mean in in small town America, you know, you're you're connected every which way, you know So I mean, this is just something that I think we're going to have to watch closely but You know in my letter to the to the town They're fully aware of both my positions. They interviewed me and mark or mark and I spoke with both of them They're they were fully aware of, you know the positions and conflicts that May or may not be there Okay So any other questions for people? Are there any other Perceived conflicts that anybody wants to ask about? I want to ask about your Northfield University contract with John Quinn for 600,000 for the security operations center Okay, I mean, I know it exists. That's not something that I'm involved in personally But your students are going to be paid In terms in doing providing the services Presumably that I think that was the idea. Yeah, and then that he's going to become a It was represented in the joint fiscal committee that Northfield is looking to turn that into a service business to sell to other entities as well Like this district that I didn't know that's that's not something that I'm aware of Is that the contract for the security? I'm sorry. Yeah, the security operation center Oh Yeah See I see that it's not necessarily the bright lines of the way the language was crafted which None of us who weren't lawyers really understood the implications of I think it's more the pervasive kind of a place a potential complacence with poor planning which You know becomes the norm in state government, but can't we can't afford to have the norm here or potential Agreement with how we're going to steer the direction or the priorities of the board. I'm obviously frustrated with how Slow, we're moving getting any plan at all even started You know and that reminds me of government Okay So, um, I'm happy to announce Our talk about this perception. I work for Norwich University. I'm a computer science professor I teach computer science computer security classes. There is a there were Discussions that I was not part of For my students to do security operations center work for the state of Vermont and there's many of them that are excited about that um, that's not part of my kind of day-to-day Job, I know my students will do that. So I could see that I could see a conflict if This organization were to on a contract or make an agreement with Norwich University It would be appropriate for me to recuse myself at that point. I think that makes sense In terms of anything else that's going on there. I'm I'm not sure that there's that there's a conflict if anybody else has questions for me or anything that I can answer any Clarifications that I can make. I'm totally happy to do so Yeah, can I just ask when you use the term your students? Does that mean you are mentoring A large group of students who have direct or is it just the way that an academic Teaching at university would speak with the students who are enrolled. Yes, and that's that's more what I'm talking about I think of my students as the students who are studying computer science or computer security and information assurance We have two majors in sort of Computing broadly described and I will probably have all of them in a class at some point or the other So those are those are my students. There's no direct connection in the way They perform for you or you perform for them in determining some of the outcome that It means fulfillment of a contract or so I mean so I could I could Possibly have my name on an internship class And be the instructor of record for them to get college credit For doing something like this. That's how I could be directly involved in their Participation in this so in that sense I would be responsible for giving them a grade So you'd be a sponsor essentially in their participation in that particular program? Correct, and I've done that before with other organizations John you had something Yeah, okay Just for clarity. Are you be as part of any Contract talks with the state of Vermont. Are you being asked to are you being paid for any type of role in the best security operations center? I think I'm right that I don't have a conflict here, but I want to make sure because So That service is going to be used to test software. I'm the lead developer on That's my conflict. Is that conflict? What's the security testing? They're going to be hammering at my software to see Is it secure? As part of that contract so so now now I really think we're getting to the weeks because again the reason I asked Jim to describe what a conflict is Um, if I had something if Norwich had something to do with this board, I would step down That guy would run the meeting and I would Smile a nod and perhaps answer questions if you if you had them for me. I think What you're talking about is If for some reason this board were doing something Contracting with the company you work for or just using the software that you're building or something like that Maybe I think we could talk Okay, so Okay So any other questions for me or for that matter for shavon about Conflicts A few people have um declared, uh potential conflicts, maybe Um, uh going around Not going around the table in an orderly way really. Um, it was it was more voluntary So should we assume that anybody who hasn't spoken up? Uh, by implication is saying I don't have any potential conflicts or or that or that you're you don't think that you do I mean, obviously you can announce these things at any time What I wanted to do through this is that is make sure that we essentially put all the cards out on the table if there was any sort of thoughts about Conflicts that people are sort of talking about outside of the meeting. I wanted just to just lay the cards out on the table I mean we can be transparent about who our employers are. I think for the most part everybody knows Where everybody works And that if we were to if we as a board were to Interact in some way with employers or family members or whatever if that just came out of You know came as a surprise somehow Then clearly clearly those people would recuse themselves if there's nothing like in the back of your mind saying Wow, this this could be this could be something we might run into I think looking at at michael's case and john's case. I think this is more this is more cut and dried I mean it is exceedingly likely That we will somehow interact with michael's company in some way it's exceedingly likely that we will interact with the state in some way So it's I think it's a good idea to have these out In public and be clear about it. So I just wanted to give anybody a chance that had some sort of Voluntary disclosure that they wanted to add as well. Sure. I work part-time for stone environmental It's a gis company that does a lot of data management a lot of data everything And uh, there's a bid or contract because of from this organization that might need that service I would recuse myself All right work for company that sells dc power backup for gsl providers Okay Does anybody know I mean in all seriousness I I appreciate those things and when we start talking about You know battery backups and we start talking about gis services. These are good things to know I mean it's good to know that you have the skills and the knowledge in those fields But also that we're going to probably have to ask you to step aside And act maybe just more as an information source than anything else than as a deciding member of the board Is there anything else anybody else wants to to I have been it's as disappointed in any as anyone with mr. Whitaker's approach to this work and to the Issues before this committee But I'd like to point out in the process that we just undertook There was an opportunity for voluntary disclosure of potential conflicts That I'm concerned that mr. Whitaker wasn't able to avail himself of Before the issue was addressed And fundamentally I'm concerned about the notion that that this was sort of sprung upon him And then after the fact others that might have a conflict were allowed to voluntarily Disclose that and have a board discussion to sort of exonerate them of that of that potential conflict and I think that it's important to recognize the difference in how that just happened and maybe it some Consideration should be given to that in the previous motion that we approved And I'm just bringing that forward is do we still want in light of this notion that others have been given a voluntary opportunity To disclose their potential conflicts Do we still want to move forward with the motion that we approved previously? I would there I appreciate that and I think it's thoughtful I would also counter that there's a difference between the hypothetical and the actual action And then the action was taken the rest of this discussion was hypothetical And that's a fundamental difference I would also say my my motion or I made it The conflict part was Probably the least important part of it all for the for my rationale for asking for that so But I do I agree with that. I mean we're talking about in one act in one instance where action was actually taken And in the other instances that these people haven't taken action and So I I do think there's a substantial difference in the circumstances Anybody else again the thoughts You know Um, this has been a valuable exercise. I'm really glad it happened. It's not the end We should have recurrent discussions like this So in the future New conflicts might arise or different levels of conflict might arise and we should discuss it when it comes up And could I invite anyone who discovers conflict or thinks they might have a conflict particularly? When you know these things in advance To bring that up either in public comment or ask to put it on the agenda before the item in question So that we can be we can be clear and have at least have a chance to Talk about it I mean just you know backing your chair away and saying I'm recusing myself Typically would like to have a little bit more information than that. Okay Put in the nail on that one future meeting length. I was not there Hold on future meeting length. So I heard after I left the the previous meeting that the meeting should be shorter I scheduled this one to be a half an hour shorter and I'm going to do my best to Keep us as close to on time as possible. So now we're at 7 0 5. So we're 20 minutes Just to correct the record. There were some people who were suggesting for more than half an hour shorter Baby steps There was a motion I believe So shorten it to two hours That was that was not reflected in the minutes I didn't record it as a motion. It was just part of the round table Okay, that's true, but but it was fairly consensus So if you'd like to make that motion, I mean it is on the agenda right now If you want to if you want to constrain ourselves to two hours, that's that's fine Or I can constrain my agenda setting to two hours stuff like that That makes more sense because sometimes things are going to come up that are going to I would not make that motion. Um, I think Is it right to discuss that absolutely Without a motion on the floor. Yeah, we're sort of loose Roberts rules in this one. Yeah I just I think uh, the more that committees do the work of the board the shorter these meetings will be But we have to be careful that the committee reports don't replace all of that and make it just as long I think one reason last week's meet last month's meeting was long Is that Rama had a lot to say about finance and it was all important and Then made that it was part of the reason that meeting was really long so I think we all have to edit ourselves so in the interest of getting through a meeting that's all Okay, anything else on meeting length moving along Bylaw and policy committee report back jim. You got like 30 seconds I'm gonna edit myself There is a Policy on data acquisition and retention that will be coming from the bylaw and policy committee at some point in the future The first draft has been developed and circulated We may have to have a subsequent meeting to finalize that before it's presented to the board We also discussed at our last meeting A notion of a policy on financial procedures But it was recognized by the committee that that was something that really needed to come back to the board That it really we didn't have a place in that discussion at that point in time So you can expect probably at the next meeting a policy on data Acquisition and retention coming forward for your consideration Thank you for that are there any questions or Yeah, does does that relate to the issue of what constitutes public record for I would can I Speak to that. I didn't read the draft that jim prepared and sent around. I think that's a fundamental broader discussion that should be debated around the whole board There are intricacies With and or assumptions built into the draft policy And if that's just logged in for a vote Without the full board being engaged in it that won't be an understanding of the pros and cons of So what I would encourage you to do is take any sort of those pros and cons and communicate that Who is in the process of developing that and then When we have that discussion Jim will hopefully have incorporated some of your suggestions and then when we have that discussion as a board you can say here Here was my list of suggestions that jim incorporated And he did a terrible job of not doing these things and he did a good job of doing these things Then we can have that discussion I think that's a perfectly reasonable thing to do in the discussion and approval of what our policy we're talking about I think in the context of the shaky ground that y'all have Provided for me that would be Falling to expect that my credibility and knowledge of that issue over the last 20 years Is going to prevail over what jim has already written.  Great Annual report in 2019 budget. Here we go So hopefully you've all gotten a copy of something that looks like an excel spreadsheet printed out Something that looks like annual report printed out I'm happy to read this there's um, there should be some other copies floating around too. I think I've printed enough for everybody I didn't um, I didn't send this around because I was still making corrections to this and fixes to this as of today and I sort of Additionally marked this up at the top approved october 9th But uh, obviously happy to change it is not been approved yet because you're just seeing this now Um, I I think I would just like to go and read over it if you would like to wordsmith it or change anything I'm happy to um to make some minor changes I don't want to go and be wikipedia here and do corrections for three hours or anything like that But if I made a big mistake if I said something wrong or if there's something big I missed These are the sorts of things that I would like like to hear so that we can Put this out this goes to all the towns it goes all to all the select board city councils and it's Their responsibility then to take this consider it along with the budget and offer us any commentary Come our public hearing which we will have On november 13th where we will invite them to come and bring their comments Or they will give their comments to each of you the delegates to present on their behalf Central mont internet is a communications union district cud Created uh following successful votes in 14 communities at town meeting in 2018 all the towns Two more towns cabin and orange successfully applied for inclusion in the district afterwards bringing the total number of district member communities to 16 Several other neighboring towns have also expressed an interest in joining the district though none have formally applied Many places in central vermont have limited access to truly high speed internet and in many places non wireless internet services monopolized by digital digital subscriber line providers Even where there's a choice the incumbent providers have little Incentive to improve speeds or extend their networks to new customers this lack of truly high speed internet access stifles economic development Depresses property values and restricts residents abilities to access common services We are grateful to the select boards and city councils for appointing the representatives and alternates who are working with us Without these folks volunteer efforts. We would not be as far along as we currently are At the time of this report center the central vermont internet governing board has met six times And committees have met several more times outside our regular meetings Since we first met in may we have reached several important milestones including the important but unglamorous work of developing bylaws policies in a budget One very important step we have taken is to rebrand central vermont internet is cv fiber In the pattern of our neighboring cud ec fiber We've also written a mission statement listed in the footer of this document And also expressed our vision for cv fibers follows vision statement Even with this work complete we still have much to do before we can start building our network and building our network and connecting subscribers In particular, we will be surveying residents in our 16 member communities to determine how many of them are interested in fiber optic internet service That information will help us decide where to do our first construction and establish a solid financial foundation upon which we can build To the remaining member communities We are exploring several avenues to finance our initial round of construction including philanthropic Contributions issuing promissory notes state and federal grants and partnerships with third parties We're confident that the district will be able to begin a first round of construction No later than 2020 and if we're able to raise funds quickly enough we could even begin in 2019 In closing we ask you community leaders in central vermont for three favors first We ask for your help in encouraging your residents to complete the surveys we'll be sending out the next month or two Secondly encourage you to help us identify people and organizations willing to donate outright Are willing to invest in our efforts to bring 21st century internet connectivity to central vermont Last we invite you to attend our november 13th meeting where we'll hold a public hearing to receive comments From legislative bodies of district members and hear all other interested persons regarding the proposed budget Respectfully submitted all of us Okay Proposed edits proposed edits fire one ready Uh About eight lines down We referred which paragraph which page first page first paragraph first page first paragraph Where are you monopolized by dsl or or cable? I would insert or cable. I said in many places Um Where I live certainly Well, my pillar is when I was my kid Right, but but in many places that aren't Montpelier and that aren't berry city and that aren't berry town. Okay. It's dsl third Sure Is is your point that if you mention cable cable is a more robust service and you're trying to talk about the less Rebus service is dsl. No, I'm just saying that there are some places that that I would call underserved That are that are served by dsl and I think that's terrible. I mean going back to our latin motto So that's that's what I want to talk about Maybe I mean As berry city, I would definitely ask to put cable in there. Okay, so Just we're not closing in many places wireless service is monopolized by dsl or cable providers. Yes, okay Got it for paragraph Including the quote the vision statement as a paragraph that's just okay. We will be surveying residents insert and businesses We'll be surveying residents and businesses Okay, I can do that and then scratch the word It replaced the word internet in the next line with communications And again, there's a Regulatory foundation. I got you. Um, and then first paragraph on the next page Raise funds and develop a viable plan. We can't just raise money and start building okay Next paragraph Fifth line scratch the word internet Okay, and then I just circle as a question What phone number what email address and what facebook page? We're using I recommend no facebook page Let me get a website Okay, that's something that we can probably we should probably kick to a committee at that part. So Let's get to that in the assembly committee tasks I think that's something that we can tell the committee go and make this happen Is is common services a term of art is that referencing? Pardon common services at the very end of the first paragraph. Is that a term of art? Is that referencing? Oh a specific kind of Access common services. I was so I was trying to think of It's not a term of art. I was thinking of services Maybe it would be better to say it restrict ability residents abilities to access online services I just I just I just curious I didn't yeah It's it's really I'm thinking like people want to apply for a job. Yeah need internet access You want to like put money in your kid's lunch account? You need internet access? It makes sense I mean it sounds like he coined a new term sounds good. So common services. Do you want to leave it change it online? I like online services Okay, consensus And then the other thing that We we also I mean, I know that I apparently we tell anybody Because I wasn't at last meeting but we did acquire a domain name so we could add that as a as a like a You know success victory. Okay Thanks I will I will call that out alongside rebranding it as cv fiber and then I will mention and acquired See cv fiber.net. Is that the one that we're sort of tentatively But you got that comment. Oh, yeah No, we talked about that Yeah, pop. Yeah a couple of nits That occurred to me One question the first paragraph somewhere in there. Do you want to bake in something about the public safety? That's directly affected or unaffected by our lack of internet services and we want to address that Let's go. Let's see by the way to put public safety in there if you think that the room Can reach a consensus on that Okay, so so this lack of truly high-speed internet access staples economic development hampers public safety Oh, I like that. Yeah Yeah, something like that. Yeah Because it is a significant issue particularly in Elmore where there is no cell phone coverage for probably something representing 60% of the town so Cyples economic development hampers public safety depresses property values and restricts residents' abilities to access common online services How do we live this long without it? I don't know Somehow Yeah, last paragraph Along with businesses residents we want to consider institutions because they have to become regular large subscribers And it's it's part of our mission statement residents businesses and civic institutions Take care of the sending I just want to make sure that we Surveying residents businesses and civic institutions Which matches the language in the mission statements cool What else? Yep Bottom of the first page where we what have we changed the fiber optic internet to fiber optic fiber optic service communications communications maybe I'm being fussy, but It's communications over fiber optic media. It's not really fiber optic Communications, and I like to be clear when I'm talking to my customers What the only difference between fiber and wireless and everything else is it's a medium Should I say how many of them are interested in fiber to the premises? Fttp That's it's also kind of a misnomer, but there it is I mean, but that's but that's the common. Yeah, it is common term. It's a good opportunity to educate them for that But this is designed to speak to the populace in which case we want to throw out terms that they're not going to So this this is going to select wards and city councils, right? Probably not Is there a better language that we can put here so we can Have your average select board member their average city counselor not to denigrate any of them I'm one of them How about fiber speed communications? I know I want to get back actually I want to drop Fibers in our name, but I want to drop that that's our goal. Our goal is to deliver High-speed services to everybody. Okay, and By whatever means and that's one medium and so is wireless and so is telephone line and Cable So how many of them are interested in high-speed communications? I mean now we're certainly if you want to distinguish it from the status quo You can just say ultra high speed or something. I would say high as speed possible. That's what I'm thinking of Ultra high does it in fewer words? Yeah, that's something that's understandable to The average person I think ultra high speed what? Communications Communications ultra high-speed communications Can I warn about using words that sound like the promises that we have You know my select where I know what whenever they see a word like ultra They are asleep because they know it's not going to happen in Worcester and they're probably wrong So they become very skeptical of what was done generally and I don't think I would have seen to doubt Propose or leave it the way it is high-speed communications Okay, you know How about higher Higher than we've gotten in so John John had a suggestion that we use that the vision statement say high-speed digital highway Sure Or what if we said we will be serving Surveying residents and businesses and civic institutions in our 16 member communities to determine What their Communications Desires and needs are To determine their communications needs. I don't want to like to turn people's desires necessarily Okay, well then they can decide what the you know the survey will sort of define that but So then it's putting it on and rather than us trying to define What we're going to ask the residents if they want the people that they want We're going to ask the people what they want or need Does that make sense that makes sense and I kind of like that language better than what I wrote but rama Yeah, I just um Actually, this discussion is a really great reason why we're going to the committee process to handle a lot of this stuff And I I honestly would hope that even if you have some disagreement with the language and I'm listening to some real Picky stuff here, you know some stuff that is dealing with technical terms things like that That when I'm reading this for the most part, I know darn well you go down present this to the Williamstowns Select board that'll but the detail stuff that you talk about doesn't really matter That's not what they're going to key in on that's not what they're going to focus on So I would hope that we actually give more leeway to the author To use wording that he thought I mean we we have an author that comes right off of the select board You know, so he's used to talking select boardies And I I think we should allow that We should kind of allow that to happen to the greatest extent possible that you know, unless we have some Concepts that need to change that the specific wording I would hope that we would leave it alone as much as possible I agree with that I I mean, I don't know what committee drafted this and I prefer And that's an issue you mean to me Not having you know getting this to a whole board of one, you know at the meeting takes up a lot of time which I guess we're all willing to do but it'd be a lot easier if you had sent that out as email and said I drafted this myself. I'd like your comments, and you would have gotten sure Chalk changes up the what zoo but this is quicker than that But I I think you know, maybe there's a way quicker to cook way of doing some of this Yeah, and I should I should have had it to last week probably that's building on romance the only other comment I would have is Just formatting wise and this I wouldn't do this for this one But you know like when you're doing accomplishments, I like to just put the middle bullets Not narrative form just so that people could just give them really fast. We're like, okay, they don't five things Got it Leave this alone to whatever you want with it because I agree what we're doing here is boiling the ocean It should be done in the committee work But one of the formats that is working real well in business in in military Circumstances for an annual report is the three p's represent everything either as progress problems or plans And leave it at that and then if we need to talk about Uh, what we want to do how we want to do it who do you want to serve? We put together a little three fold which is targeted to the audiences And it doesn't come across as a report card. It comes across as a bit of vision So we always used to use the three p's and in the three fold if you were trying to develop interest And that's that's our future discussion. This is good enough for now. We've got to get something done. Yeah Are we expecting this is going to show up in the town mornings? This was a question that uh Somebody asked that earlier This is this is our report to the governing boards for their feedback I think we can probably draft something that's more official to go into The town reports in each of the towns that's more final because again, this is a draft budget This is out there for the select boards and the city councils to weigh in on at our next meeting So these are things we're putting them out. We're saying hey select board city council.  And that's fine. They can come bring that back and we can say well, we're sweet You know, we're switching to a much simpler one pager You know three p's and that's and that's going to be it and that seems When are you hoping to have this out? I'm just I'm going to go to the next select board I'm gonna I will I will have this done tonight. I will I will incorporate these revisions Um, I will read through it again With the revisions and hopefully everybody will be okay with approving it Along with the budget and I'm going to take this I'm going to ask who Trustee clerk to then distribute that to the other clerks And make sure that that goes out to everybody And the select boards get this in our and have essentially have a month to chew on this Okay, David, did you have something else? No, I just want what I do Let's let's finish it First of all, I confess it was picky and I apologize Second ball, I think we should if these are going to the select boards as Draft annual reports and draft budgets. They should use the word draft in your titles Third of all, I'm going to be semi-picky in the first paragraph And maybe I have a conflict of interest here And common providers have little incentive to improve speeds and extend their networks to their customers Really I'll attest to that in Roxbury. That's I mean, that's that's my position Well, it's not true in every instance I would assert And the other one is limited access to truly high-speed internet I guess you need to define that Again, I was trying to keep it simpler So my reason for being picky isn't because it's that important to get it perfect for the select board But because it's like a trial run For something that's going to go out into the public And so I thought that was why it was worth spending a little time on But I apologize for wasting our time tonight Scratch the word truly But there's but but but high speed point is making it So, I mean high speed internet you can be that can mean anything you want that can be dsl How it's built right How about gigabit? That's not the lack of gigabit internet that stifles these sorts of things I mean, I I mean where I am I want something other than dsl I think a lot of people in this room would be happy with a step up We're just looking at taking several steps up simultaneously So yes, I mean I you know and I've said in other other places where I've written stuff I've written like 21st century We have used the word ultra high speed and some of the like the handouts that I gave at town meeting this year Again the idea is to communicate Kind of the what we are why we're doing this Thank you Here's what we've done. Here's what we're going to do. That was sort of my My mentality in in in approaching this So I would find the way it is I'm just talking about our future public facing So so let's so if somebody will is willing to draft sort of the language that sounds better I'm looking at you Michael. It's going to look better. That's going to sound like What we actually want on the future face of Our documents then let's let's do that and then when we go and we send an annual report to be Inserted into the town reports. We think we can have that then I'd like to make a motion and So that we can continue to move on here that our chair has received his feedback and that we entrust him to take said feedback Deal with it. NCC's fit and distribute it to our treasurer Okay, any further discussion rama. Are we just talking the annual report or just just a report? Any further discussion? All in favor Opposed abstaining Okay, unanimous Thank you for your confidence Eventual confidence Sorry, I do want to say it's nice to see you're already going to see a surplus. Yeah So are you going to put the new like info at cbfiber.net on that? Yes, there was a there was a mention of um, it was going to get kicked to committee. So I'm just So it is going to get kicked to committee. But again, this is a draft. We have to say we registered it I mean, we didn't say we're using it necessarily but We've rebranded we're rebranding it at cbfiber and we have cbfiber.net as our future web application, okay the draft budget This is um, somewhat vague. This is as specific as I feel like I can be I had a long productive meeting with michael. Thank you very much talked about his business plan And his budget and I took a fair bit of inspiration from there And I also sort of in a very real way made things up and the reason I say that is that Without knowing more about what our infrastructure looks like and where it is It's basically impossible for me to say anything with any certainty what I did and I actually have the excel spreadsheet the reason it says $180,000 for example in pilot construction is I took the $30,000 that we were Told from ec fiber and sort of consulted with michael that that's at least kind of order of magnitude right $30,000 per mile So i'm sort of imagining whether this happens or not That we have six miles Six miles of fiber constructed and that's including permitting make ready make ready engineering drops in the actual fiber itself Um, whether that's a realistic number or not. I don't know. That's why i'm throwing it out here for you to talk about um the revenues um So we have donations promissory notes grants I don't know if any of these are realistic Residential internet, so i'm sort of again made up an average imagine $80 And if I just thought maybe we'll be able to get them turned on by november So they'll pay for november in december. There's two months. I think saying 36 subscribers Six miles six subscribers per mile minimum There's 57 60 there um operational external business development services I didn't forget about the business committee and they want to do that, but I took the $250,000 that they thought they'd need to spend and I thought Maybe want to cut that down a little bit and do something a little bit more modest We have a lot of volunteers and people who would be willing to do pro bono work. I suspect Um, and we can probably get that number down to their Financial items so including costs for accounting. So if we pay an accountant if we pay for an audit Thought it's going to be quick Any bank fees Office supplies anything we have to print a post office box $10,000 for uh legal issues that may occur Advertising including the survey that hopefully going to put out Maybe in january. Maybe earlier than that. I don't know what that's going to look like Network operational costs and I said $50,000 in operational costs over for the six miles That's probably Probably high I'm going to guess And then there's excel formulas here. I put the note in here to meet some statutory requirements. So it said Um, I say there are no deficits or surplus from prior years Because we don't have prior years. There's no such thing The statute says you have to include in your budget any reports about Deficits or surpluses and I want to make sure we call it out and say here it is. Don't have it Now I'm going to talk just uh we This is just me not understanding. I you know, I come from private warning more notes means something very specific, you know, I kind of Finance and perspective a promissory note for a municipality. How does that really work or how do you what kind of an instrument is this really? It's an unsecured loan Right, but what do they get that's it So, um, I get back for it So so I I actually have the language of ec fibers promissory notes In I put them in the in the folder So promissory note in the way the ec fiber had them constructed were um, the person Wrote wrote them a check and what they would do is they had an 18 month interest holiday And then after the 18 months, I think the payoff was Oh, this is an unsecured interest but five years and then they started paying They essentially started paying back that stuff after the 18 months at as like seven percent. It was a really really juicy interest rate Yeah, I would encourage anybody who? Who wants to see how ec fiber did it and that's kind of the more Deep dive into what that is. It's in the it's in the folder And I you know give a lot of thanks to to carol over there for providing that Yeah One thing that might be helpful to go along with this and I don't think it's in in the notes here So there are formulas behind for example the 180,000 when you when you say six miles That's just that it's equals six times 30,000. What I'm saying is that would be helpful as a note So that you can see why it's 180 and not 140 Okay, you know just of course because it begs the question So so it might be a good thing to maybe have alongside like miles six cost per mile 30,000 have that broken out Well, just a note you could have a superscript b and have it below saying it in narrative one sentence Assumes six miles and such and such a mile and there's some foundational assumptions to the budget But that's really what that is. Yeah. Yeah, that would be helpful. Okay I can do that. You said you've done this in excel. Yes Typically what I do when I do formal budgets for the town and that sort of stuff is the column all the way to the right Give to see there's some key assumptions or some other factors. So it's right there line on and by line Okay, so if I add another column to the right of tighten it up and have a A column to the right that just basically you can identify it any way you want. I generally put in Most most of the time what I do is I put in the The simple arithmetic by which that number was arrived at. Okay I can do that I think that's really the only place aside from like the subtotals, which are literally just the stuff above add it together Um, that's the only one that I have that's like derived from anything Although although I do have the residential internet item that's in parentheses. I'll just move that over to the right So you'd be consistent with the explanation of that formula Yeah, if there's only two or three I'd say do it is no it's rather than make it more confusing with more columns. Okay Okay, I'll just move it over into the left then Yeah, so I think um I think the numbers are all off and you're not surprised by that they're Most of them are high And and the income is unlikely. I mean 36 customers is not critical mass and I think you've made a profit because of All the revenues you put up there, but I don't think that's how it really works um, I mean I My experiences you need six or 800 customers to break even And the idea that a little pilot project is going to turn a profit in the first year is You know, so it's not fair to say that to town So right so that that net income is just left over from what I sort of arbitrarily chose as the I realize that But the impression it might lead to Mike's point. I would say it's not unreasonable If you look at large capital investments and business startup costs You look at your cumulative cash flow from what you derive things like profit and loss You bathtub it's not unreasonable to show a loss in your early years. In fact, most Entrepreneurs expect it And the real issue is time to break even and time to profit ability. Okay, so so here's what I would ask from you guys I love that you're deep into the finance because I don't I'm not that sort of person So tell me there are numbers here. Tell me what to change them to No So again, this is a draft this is something that we're going out to the to the boards And we're saying here's what we're imagining come back with feedback. This is not final The final one is adopted after our november meeting I think the answer to the question though was yes, this has to be decided voted on tonight Not enough notice to get to start doing on this Okay, it is so how many items do we have? Hold on a second one two three four Five six seven eight nine ten eleven. We have eleven items. We can get through eleven items and not very long. I think You know, I mean, I'm just thinking like optics optically. I don't relish the idea of handing my town Like, oh, yeah, we're in debt, you know, like I don't like that as a first impression even if it's a realistic impression Um, I'm fine to like take that philanthropic donation cut it by 10 grand You know cut it until you're you're at basically zero Right, that's fine. But like I don't want to hand somebody the debt paper That's my first interaction. How are we gonna run a deficit anyways? We gotta back to character We're gonna run it high. I mean, we're really gonna rely on debt The way to do it is you have a column for 2019 2020 2021 and you show that it's 2021 broken Okay, and then people are more comfortable. So yes, this is crazy. I'm sorry the process is Let's have net income of zero. Yes and do that by either decreasing revenues in the amount of 18,260 or increasing expenditures in the amount of 18,260 the area that you could obviously plug in 18,260 is in external business development services financial office supplies legal advertising Just just distribute the 18,000 among there. Okay. So, so do we have consensus that the bottom line should say zero? Is that consensus? It doesn't raise any questions then I just want to say when I made the amount last month For the survey I said survey was going to cost 15,000. Now it's lumped with advertising. So I don't Not exactly sure how that happened, but so maybe that's the place where some of that money goes So you have 15, so let's put another 15 make it 30 Okay Advertising and we'll have the survey at 15,000 dollars too. So we're at 3260 remaining I'm really concerned that this is basically going to Define this could this document put together on the fly in an hour is going to wag the dog Because tell me what I need to change. It's going to create some assumptions I mean, I would I would need a discussion. I I know david contracted when he was in government with A group to put a plan together. We need a plan and obviously we're not going to get a plan out of committee process So a plan and engineering I could see costing 100 or 200,000 right there before we even ready to build anything And we're not going to start building in a place with only six homes per mile We're going to build where we can get revenue the greatest Some revenue right away. So there's so many flawed assumptions that are based in here That's six subs per mile. Not six homes. There's probably 50 homes, but only six signed up at 80 bucks John We are required to pull this out of our ears By statute we have a time limit on when this has to come out. We have no money. We have no plans This is an estimate at best And but we have to provide it We don't have time right now to figure out specific numbers for specific things Because we have to get this document to the select boards Before january October 21st, we do not have time So this body understands that and we're not going to let this budget Become the be all end all of every decision that we make going forward We understand that this is put together on the fly to meet a statutory requirement That happened over a couple of weeks And I don't see any of us being so unreasonable as to expect. Oh, well you just went over that 25 000 You can't have any more money to do that. I don't see us doing that I'm done Mercifully, the gods have provided a workout for this Put up our order numbers you want in there and just say preliminary estimate That is considered Preliminary estimate is just a cough out because it implies Just a slightly higher level It's nothing more than smoke street this budget applicable one practicable You want to write that one down? Like email There's one more part in the statute that It says we have to provide and maybe you're expecting the numbers to do this But in addition to a financial statement and a budget We're supposed to provide a forecast presenting anticipated year end results Net income I'm sorry? I think it reflected in the net income line Zero Zero oh you oh, I thought I thought that's interesting because I thought it was Supposed to present year end results of our activities not just the budget But that was in the so so and maybe that's the case But I think it was that's mentioned in the statute in the same breath as the budget So I would suspect that you could reasonably That's great. I I agree and I interpreted the way you did but yeah So we and we do In the annual report for better for worse do describe what we're hoping for Our end result to be it's not broken down by what we're hoping to do by next year, but One other practical thing then since one does reflect the other and we talked about the foundational assumptions I mean the big ones are we're hoping to raise Some bill on rampant, you know donations and we really are that's pretty Very outside which is bottom of that, you know it counters with what you're able to do But maybe that's where you put that one You know for 2019 we helped to raise You know X amount of capital to facilitate the first Four to six miles of construction and just something really concrete like that that's even if it's a little behind the sky. That's just You know the aspiration The plan piece of it. Yeah, that's why you have progress problems and plants Yeah, and you bucket everything in three buckets and you bolt them So so should I should I suggest what we're imagining getting in promissory notes and philanthropic donations in the annual report Does that seem like a reasonably kind of like friendly amendment thing that I can add as I'm redrafting this Sure Is there any interest in the board and trying to go to the legislature to get some funding out of the capital budget for next year Yes, yes, there is some there is some interest here and and I know ec fiverr is doing something like that And so so what why don't you and I talk talk offline? Under capital I would drop drops drop drops. Yeah, I think it's safer because if If you if if we're going in a stretch that has 12 per mile and we get 11 or 10 And we won't cover it because the drops are expensive um Kind of a segue on this survey part That david is going to work on I would like to be part of that I already Have put a lot of effort into creating some surveys that I could Add to what you've done. So the the wonderful news is if we can get through this the next item on the agenda is Talking about the survey. Okay Yeah, I have another question. I think that was an excellent recommendation about calling this a preliminary draft Or something along those lines. My question is Is that sufficient? Can we provide what we're calling a preliminary draft? Does that answer the man? Yes, I mean that's specifically what the statute calls for Is a draft that is that we are offering as a preview To the to the legislative bodies of the member municipalities and it's their job then to say hey, you guys are crazy And that might be that might be bob saying you're crazy. I need three years Right. Well, you haven't seen my reply yet Yeah Yeah, hold on a second jim is in line. I'd like to make a motion to approve this document with the following changes that it be indicated as a preliminary draft that the net income be zeroed out and that the operational external business development services and other items under operational be adjusted to reflect the zero net income increase And I'm going to let me do a quick friendly backwards here and increase and uh Separate survey from advertising and add a survey item in the amount of 15 000 Yeah, so you would give them permission to do that. Yeah, okay And then I will neaten this up in terms of the formulas All right, so there's a motion to second any further discussion I get just to throw in real quick that you know It is anticipated in the law that we may You know, let's say this budget came to fruition for 2019 It is anticipated in the law that we could move things around on the budget items It's just we do have to file an end of the year report with the select boards letting them know if we did it That's the only thing. I mean there's nothing that stops us and says well. Whoa. We really do have 300 thousand dollars in revenue You know, so we might want to spend my so anyway, I just thought I'd throw that out So even if we agree on a budget, we're not locked into the spending We just have to be able to justify it to the select boards if we change it And I don't want to get too deeply to this But I think that there are many other revenue streams than what's listed here That you know, it's fine. This is great. Great assumption. I think there are other there are other The other thing I would like consider dropping residential internet Revenue and fall together from the first year We're going to be lucky to pull it off in a year even utilizing let's say valley net services To get it accomplished make ready Can take godly long it takes longer than the statute allows Because the company isn't Responsible don't necessarily follow statute. So it's going to easily take more than a year So so the reason I put it in there is in part just to show That we're not relying entirely on sort of one time things that there is going to be a regular Revenue source or at least again more aspirational if that number is zeroed out in our end of the year report, it's okay That's that's okay. I mean We might not even build anything. It's okay. It's fine. It's for me. I just wanted to make the point that My experience it takes a damn long time any other commentary Yeah I think putting the Year two year three putting the revenue in there but leaving it out In 19 Is the way to do it if you are going to expand this to a three-year Window, so I'm not going to because this is this is a just a budget. This isn't a business plan It's just a budget for a particular year what I would ask to consider a very High-level overview that we put at least enough anticipate enough Revenue or donations or Promissory notes and put enough expense in there to get a real business plan and a real engineering plan because if we're if we're Not putting at least that amount of vision and money and belief in ourselves into the budget The people who are most likely to throw a half a million at us are going to roll their eyes These people don't take themselves seriously Hold on a second. So the engineering the network design is is in there. It's a capital expense It's not enough. Okay. We need 25 000 for a business plan and probably a hundred thousand point of order We said 30 000 dollars ec fiber came to me and they said engineering Pull make ready operational cost wrap into 30 000 dollars. Listen This these are the numbers we're given. Let's use them. Let's move forward Somebody's gonna point somebody's gonna point at me and laugh and say, huh, you can't possibly do that I'm not going to give you my money. You know what? Okay. Yeah, okay We're this is a statutory responsibility Somebody who is an accountant Somebody who is a financial person is going to take this and write something real Okay, they're gonna write the actual business plan what michael has Is not what this is what michael has is this three-year business plan and it's beautiful It's got tabs and as formulas linking different tabs together And you can change one thing in one place and you can look at the final breakdown and it's it's wonderful Is not what we are supposed to be doing. Yeah, so At some point At some point we will vote on this At some point Okay, we have we have we have a she's not debatable. She's calling the question. Is there a second? Yeah, okay, so calling the question requires a two-thirds majority to To cut off debate So We have a second so All in favor Opposed Okay, the eyes seem to have it the eyes do have it motion passes now. We're ready to call the question on whether I think that was Jim was that your that was your motion? Okay with some of these changes Okay All in favor of jim's motion about the budget signify by saying aye Opposed abstaining Thank you. Thank you, by the way. We will we we will get back to it. I I promise We we will can I make a comment, please? I want to make a comment in support of what steven was saying Engineering as part of construction is different from engineering as part of Conceptual design of a network and I believe what he's speaking about Is the conceptual design of the whole network not the design not not the engineering of the actual construction And it is a separate line item and it's an expensive one And the other thing I think he's suggesting is feasibility study of some sort That's a useful thing that we may want to be considering about in the future as well Can I please point out we now have we're we were supposed to have ended this at You can point that out If you continue moving so if you if you can do it in 10 seconds sure I'm wholeheartedly objecting to the fact that this was far and honest tonight at the meeting with no preview And then rushed through haphazardly to a decision. Okay, so it was it was given to me as a task to build the budget I got no feedback from anyone So I wrote it myself seen in two days ago. Okay. Oh, come on. Let's go. So hold on. I I met with michael I sat down put some ideas together Three hours two hours. We spent a lot of time And we sat down and I put this together. This is a draft We will have an end of the year reckoning Okay, don't worry moving on and surveying member towns and pilot projects Um, I think we ought to be looking at pilot projects for next year. I think we ought to be surveying people And what that survey looks like I'm not entirely sure but I think that we ought to be sending it to I'd like to see it to everyone in every member town where I hopefully it's not a Um, hopefully it's not a paper survey that we have to mail But unfortunately, you're not going to get Terribly good representation of the people who need internet service the most If you don't physically mail it or if you don't physically knock on the door In in some capacity. So I'm All ears in terms of how we ought to go surveying and gathering the information about Our likely set of subscribers I I'd just like to say When I talked to the select board in williams town and they appointed me as I told them I had a two-step process to go through and the very first priority I had was to get the organization up and running and once the organization was on solid foot Then I was going to worry about equity for williams town And they had no problem with that So I the reason I mentioned that is because I'm not so sure that our first time out that we want to just Kind of do a buckshot around all of the what 16 counts You know that really can become an expensive survey and it can become very involved and Um, I it may be that we want to focus it down more kind of get into get get some idea of what we would like to run as a test project And then look around and see what communities Meet the requirements for us to go in and do the The Do whatever it is that we're looking to have done on that specific So if you're trying to prove it you're better off selling it to everybody else In supporting the idea of a test project The best sales tool that you've got is to prove that it works a small proof point Is a lot better than all the surveys in the world. Okay, so so what I'm what I'm hoping that we can get done Tonight that we can talk about hopefully resolve is More about what is it that we're surveying? What is it some of the questions that we're asking or at least we can get to like some sort of general idea there And then maybe we can talk about scope soon Do we target just I'm picking on you because you're sitting next to me. Do we target just rocksbury? Rocksbury is one of our most underserved communities in addition to elmore Do we survey elmore and rocksbury? I mean even if we sent a letter to everyone in rocksbury and everyone in elmore That's not going to that's not going to cost very much Just saying Or do we talk about scope now and we worry about the actual drafting of the of the survey? We hand that off to a committee. I think it's something that we need to do sooner or later Two two things just to share I would agree that finding a project that we feel is going to be a good proof of concepts And the appropriate space and then targeting a survey on that would be Our best use of time and effort A place where we think it's going to succeed And is viable As far as the second point would be as far as what we're surveying I think something that would be critical because Literally in the last two days three people in my town have come up to me and said what's going on with the internet? And I've had long discussions with them and the questions really were well, what's going to be different than what we have now so Somehow in the survey, I think identifying What would be available how it might differ from what is in that target Zone that we're looking at and how that might change for instance In my situation to have 50 megs I could lose my phone I could lose my satellite and I'd probably save close to 200 a month On my whole package of all that and so Helping people understand that as opposed to just saying, you know, I'd be like 50 meg A lot of people I don't think are going to be able to Draw the the line in between those two points of information to see how it's going to affect them Potentially and how it might be beneficial. So you might not need to sell it But at least explain to them what would be potentially available for them because they may not know Okay, that's a good point. So quite a bit of information in there in addition to just saying name address Whatever, I think you're more likely to sell it that way too and have them respond saying, oh, geez That's available Because for us in our town, most of us don't even know what's available because it's never been available to us Um, I just I think that the survey question should be developed in committee Business development committee, I think already has this Okay first So is it is it on the is it on the like the list of things to do for the business development committee already? Yeah, okay Okay, so take take john's suggestions there as advice and we can we can circle back around to that. Yeah Can I make a suggestion that we go one further and Have this be one of the things we ask for money for Because I think if you unless somebody has Data analytics and needs assessment background that we don't know about Or that I don't know about I think You're not going to get the quality of information that you want Out of a survey that we come up with ourselves That's just I also say the other it should be a big task Can we bond this a little bit with just having come off with a plan and That or whatever our what's our we is a bigger group What's our bigger goal like for are we all willing to sign up and say we're going to do one town X miles wide potential z signed up Well, I mean that's sort of what was aspirational in the budget. I think yeah, I mean can each of you identify in your town a six mile stretch of road or roads That you can you could go and talk to people and get 36 subscribers no conflicts of interest All right, so so so do you so what if you I mean what if what if each of you you know knocked on six miles of doors Between now and the next meeting and identified Or whatever I'm just saying yeah cherry I don't think it's quite as simple as that. I think you really need to develop I mean typically if you're going to have a questionnaire you're going to go through focus groups and discovery groups people For the example that you were describing that you know folks can give up their their their their package And get everything through the internet the the whole idea of medical information being able to get through the internet for folks People don't know that so there's an educational component There's an educational component to doing any kind of questionnaire and I don't I don't I don't think you can just go knock on doors I really think that that questionnaire needs to be developed. I think that's part of what should be done in the committee work and and I wouldn't jump to going out and knocking on doors yet So as someone who has gone out and knocked on doors for this particular project And spoken to several hundred people about it in particular northfield because I needed to get it on the ballot northfield I can give you a list of names right now who have already told me that they want this and will sign up But is that all we want out of a survey? Right, but it's a place to start But if I can say there are these people on these roads that I already talked to We can say we can just we can put a survey together and we can survey them Or you people you folks in your towns you can identify You know where likely people could be and we could do something targeted So I don't know that we want to go through the focus group. No, I'm not recommending that we do. Yeah I'm I'm saying that we I'm hesitant to to to go this weekend and start knocking on doors. I I think we're not Quite there yet. We've we've gone back and forth in the business development committee about You know about how to target because we have information that can help us target and and I don't think we're quite there yet.  Okay, I don't think it's quite right Okay, Michael. I want to make two quick points. Um First of all Becca, there is lots of software out there That does this we don't have to reinvent the wheel There's all kinds of survey analytical software that we can use to generate surveys that then solve the data Digesting problem. Could you could you send? Yes, I got software to the committee. Yeah, um two We shouldn't survey everybody in every town we should survey every six people on a road and then develop data from that sample Just like the pollsters do and three We have to be really careful. We don't load the survey With questions that will give us the answers we're looking for We want to Present it so that they make the tough choice. Will you be willing to spend This much money to get installed and this much money for your internet And you can make it a push poll question which will help you eliminate these services But you want to make sure you're not loading it the survey up so that we fool ourselves into the Thinking we're going to get a take break. We're not going to get that's that's it. It makes sense Uh, a lot of this discussion is founded on an assumption which we haven't agreed to yet Which has to do whether we lease service lease. There's abundant infrastructure out there that we can lease and turn up customers In the next three or four months and we have not gotten to that discussion, which was part of my vision opportunity after you and michael spoke for meetings ago and We were really I mean i'll raise this with the business development committee because I think that we are Misguided in thinking that we're going to just build new fiber at 30 000 a mile to every customer we get There's lots of customers that Are available without building Okay, and and identifying where that fiber is It will will be important in that calculus and we should have started that already But also not offer 50 megabit if we know we're working for a statutory goal, which is 100 symmetric By 2024 we're not going to build anything less than that. Where did I say 50? So rocksbury said he'd been happy with 50. He said he'd be happy with 50 But if we gave him 100 But detail started out at a gigabit per second in which no reason we shouldn't do that, you know Just just for the point of being constructive Is there is there a direct? I mean you just said we should have started on this fiber We should have done this we should have done that. Is there are there directives that we can send to committees? Or I will raise this thing in the business development committee, which i'm on. I just realized that this is not Uh, gonna happen until the business development committee Lobs it up here doesn't do any good for me to so so so a bit business development. Can we set up a meeting and have a good, uh Vigorous discussion about this absolutely am I am my apologies for being out of town for the past two months? So it's been No, I haven't been available. No, it's it. So yes, we we have uh, we have some business development work Catch up work that we that we need to do Uh, there's no question We don't need to necessarily plaster the whole town But there are people could just go significant and figure out, you know, how many do we need to hit? And what's the random sample we should go after and there's there's methods around this to save us money because otherwise we're wasting Um, I unless this really involves people here going knocking on doors, um, it's going to cost something Um, and so it's going to be a real expenditure Uh, and I I worry about finding real revenue to cover that expenditure I mean, it's great to put numbers on paper, but this is something real So there's something else that needs to be done then too clearly and that's starting to shake shake the money trees. Yeah I mean I can start you know talking to people and asking them and sort of floating these ideas But aside from the one person that I know who's willing to write us a A check essentially to say get going Somehow I think that the five hundred dollars or a thousand dollars is not going to be quite enough to get us even across that modest finish line So, yeah, there's obviously there's you know, two parts of the balance sheet. We're going to need to pursue that as well Doesn't hurt on the survey Regarding revenue The one line item that wasn't in the budget was the crowdfunding and I think we could take advantage of that That is now legal in vermont To crowdfund. Oh, actually an equity crowdfunding is legal. This is an equity Um, yeah, we can't offer equity. No, we can't but we may still be able to crowdfund with promissory notes And they could be small ones Um Look into milk money. No, no. No, that's that's a that's a good point doing it through Doing through milk money or doing it like crowdfunded promissory could be like five hundred dollars or a thousand dollar promissory notes Let's do both. Let's do crowdfunding for donations and crowdfunding for promissory Of course I mean, so it's philanthropic donations that could be crowdfunded and the promissory notes could be crowdfunded So the mechanism for how we do these things. I think we don't necessarily need to break out No, but it's it's a it's a way to deal with those five hundred dollar checks I'll also ask if we work with Consider working with the schools because there's an army of students going out with the wealth design survey Could cover an entire town So the the how of the survey needs to come after we choose the scope and after we choose what's on the survey So let's let's put let's get to that when we can Jerry Yes, so the the idea of shaking the trees and getting the finance Going I know at one point. I remember we we were saying well, we needed a bank account Now we have a bank account. We will momentarily So can this be on the agenda for the finance committee to develop a tree shaking plan? Is that is that is that not where this belongs? All right, then then let's let's put it on the agenda for business development and come back with a A plan for tree shaking I ask people for money. I usually end up giving them some Okay On that note could might I suggest that we consider shifting business development as far as writing a plan and a pilot and Yeah, survey, etc. Is going to have its plate full and that the money shaking strategy might ought to be transferred to finance I think it was transferred out of finance. So so so hold on. So let's um Let's let's circle back to that. I think there's probably some wisdom there I'm not sure that I agree with it necessarily, but let's do that on the next agenda item Is there any fields that we want to talk about with survey or we sort of Basically agree that survey lives in business development and we're going to wait for their response. I would agree that the survey Details and all of that Belongs in business development. I think we need to talk about criteria for scoping as a board at some point not necessarily tonight But is that something that the business development committee can come back with a proposed scope and that the the overall board can then propose criteria perhaps For determining what the scope would be like you have cable available. Is this time? Oh, yeah. No, you yeah, that's that's the specifics I that I don't We'll bring you as I always Consultant we'll bring you the Cadillac option All right, is there anything else about surveying member towns pilot projects that we need to talk about now Great moving on review of back burner items and assignment of committee tasks. So this is um down in the back burner We've got four items there Are there any of these things that we need to take up soon? Or that we should simply strike and get back to as a backpack burner So i'm seeing the outreach to other towns washington waterbury woodbury Is anybody going to do this or we should just let this organically happen if one of you happens to talk to somebody there and it They just appear I talked to somebody in washington and I said talk to your select board I think Can we kick that one to the Survey bit portion of the business development committee. I bet personally. I I don't think so adding new members doesn't really make sense No, it's just whether we survey them as part of a potential adding them Yeah, I I think we need to keep our focus a little bit sharper Okay, so shall shall we but will we eventually want to do outreach to other towns? Do I need to leave this on the back burner or should we just yeah We absolutely need waterbury in potentially more town in our economic model. Okay That neutrality is that something we're going to bring back as an agenda item soon It's marketing Really? I mean, I mean, it's a philosophy that most of us believe in but It's role in the process is marketing. So I don't know that has to be now Did anybody notice that dude didn't bother to show up here? St. Jay the the commissioner was in st. Jay St. Jay time Yeah, you didn't come by here. You didn't come by in six. I don't know All right, so So in in in honor of edged pie, we're going to strike net neutrality Nobody quote me on that, please I want to see the skeptical I flick go to the left and the right Just the I flick they almost rolled the jeep and uh spring trip. He's watching That's cute. Um relationship to the Vermont telecommunications plan I think that one should come in sooner and I think for a couple reasons one because it has to do I mean if we're going to go off into coming up with any small project to start with it should be in relation to the uh telecommunications plan That's also, I mean if you listen to the gubernatorial race right now It's between fiber optics and I and everybody's promising the world. So Again That is the opening though for us to get in there and we spoke that there were people ready to go talk to the legislature and and when the governors whoever comes out to be governor is going to be that interested in in The topic whether it's imperfect or not for the first couple months. Well This is the time though to get into the legislature and to start talking and to actually start loving Lobby and both take it either way if you want to take it and uh to start talking about this issue So I I think we should bring back the Vermont telecommunications plan sooner so that we all understand really So in the interest of the time, can I say Vermont telecommunications plan? No November agenda item? Yes, because there should be a draft out from the department. There's a new draft coming out Yeah, good. And so we should have it in time for our next meeting. I think so Super great. Uh callous pilot discussion public safety committee Those are two different things. Okay. Just it was for the for the sake of space. I put them put them there Well, we had just had the you know a discussion about pilots not specifically callous But I think we broaden that to look at what might be so I think that's already in the work. Okay scratch Okay that public safety. I don't know we didn't I think the scope of what was proposed for discussion about a callous pilot was different than what The business development community Is going to take on right and and so I recall you introducing the callous pilot discussion And I remember that the rest of the board not having a heck of a lot of interest in actually having that discussion That was my remembrance. Please correct me if I'm not saying this correct that correctly Okay, so not hearing anything. I'm going to assume that what I just said was true So the guy from callous doesn't want it then I don't think we're there yet I mean, I'm going to go to my slack point next week and I'm going to ask In the interest of time public safety committee. Does that need to remain on the back burner? Or does that need to go away or does that need to be brought up or what needs to be brought up because there's a meeting next There's a joint meeting at the very moment earlier. Okay. What is what is the What is the agenda item here? What's the agenda item here? There's there's Overlap a significant substantial almost complete overlap of the central vermont public safety authority and that it's new members Of the capital fire mutual aid and they are an anchor tenant in a communications network They're planning to rebuild a radio network, which is going to require fiber connections to every Radio transmitter and they would serve as a good anchor anchor tenant on our network But it's going to go to fair pointer consolidated if we stay asleep at that switch And they need telecommunications to planning help as do we Okay, so Thank you for that. Is that something that we need to put on the agenda item on the agenda for our next meeting? Is that something that we need to pursue? Is that something that needs to go to a committee or is it something we should just leave it on the back burner where it is Sounds like a business development committee question It's developing new potential So I just have a very very fundamental Question does the timing of these things match up at all? Is there any possible way that we could have the infrastructure to service the need that's being decided in the month? And if it's not Then let's put it aside And when we're capable of addressing that Addressing no, they have to raise a million and a half dollars to build that radio system. So There is a parallel okay, but so what's the pleasure of the board? So i'm i'm not hearing a lot of enthusiasm And if I don't hear anything we'll just leave it on the back burner and we'll come back to you later Yeah, I mean My silence isn't a lack of enthusiasm for the public safety committee Especially a though I do think the callus pilot was an interesting one to think about but The public safety committee Yeah, I think that should stay there But we should be ready to bring it back because I do think that that's an opportunity for a quick You know a quick amount of customer a quick amount of usage, you know if we can get hold of the pipeline to Because these guys are going to be making use of a lot of communications if They get it up and running and that's enough and so and they're going to be raising a million dollars, right? It's going to take a while. Okay Yeah, yeah that and they're going to be working with consolidated So eventually they're going to be looking for somebody else Okay, um assignment of committee tasks, so we had the um Setting up the website And that was good. Was that going to go to business development as well or was that going to go to Does anybody here are able to just make a website for free? Or I can't personally So So so hold on we actually have a possibility of where we could get web hosting for free I'll talk. I have a very progressively minded business Associate who does my website runs an internet company and he may I could talk with him I think he might be the type of person to approach to protect potentially not only can do they host them, but they develop and they're very good So if that could be a tax write-off and As a donation Discussion open that they may develop a site for us, but we hosted under our google domain rather than have to get into the reliability and diversity of circuits So somebody's going to give us something for for free, especially if they're doing development I want to I want to find out what's what's on offer before we start making any decisions Can we just like move forward with this passively? Thank you for that john so website And so i'm going to make a motion that we Sort of hand the business development committee the task of looking at fundraising looking at The proposed scope criteria for the survey and potential targeting for the survey Point of order that was a motion somebody would second that then we can chat about it second Okay, so it's seconded by filth. Thank you for that. So are we overloading the business committee? I think almost definitely So should we have That's really you know run or go from these or the presubscription or the whatever it might be Even if it's only two or three people just because that's you know need and then I don't know. It's just a thought So so have the development committee be have a separate development committee that's doing fund raising and have the business committee doing the Survey stuff and the other stuff And yeah market execution partnership all those types of things that are more of a business plan for service versus Okay, so so so what I would yeah jerry I think that's a that's a very good idea. There there are only I believe five people on the business development committee so You know it's it's and one of the things that we found is that we really don't have enough hours man hours work hours you know Full-time equivalencies To get a whole lot done. It's really hard So it would be great if there was a either a separate committee or a subcommittee or At least five other people or four other people that could be working on that Separating out the fundraising from the the the surveying aspect would be really helpful okay Yeah, I also I think the fundraising should probably be separated out that that's a specialty into itself And I'm not offering myself It's not nary. I'm terribly good at so but there are people that are good at it There are people that have the connections whether they're professional or personal or whatnot who are there people that have that are Better and and so You know business development and getting the money to fund the business development. I think they're two fundamentally different topics I think we ought to be trading Okay, so and a practical matter The amount of time we have is is limited. I I tried with the agenda But um Unless I'm seeing three people jumping out right now and saying I'm going to be on the development committee I think we just put this on the business committee and we can figure it out Nobody's leaping out and saying is it is it possible to help out with specific tasks and not be tasked on the committee? Okay, yeah Wow, I love the sound of that you you heard that That would that that would be great. I mean it was and it was them that reached out to me initially In terms of getting cavit on board very good this kind of thing. So very much Okay, so I made a motion and it was seconded about giving Fundraising and survey criteria and targeting stuff to the business development committee Any further discussion about that? All right all in favor Opposed Abstaining motion passes. Thank you very much Um anything else that we need to assign to committees that I missed Is the does the finance committee want to take a deeper dive into budget? Do you want us? I would I would like that. I mean because um, so I chuck this out there and I'm not sure how we Trying to think on the on the people with enough expertise to help provide input on good and building the budget So The people on the finance committee itself think that we have The expertise to sit down and I I'm not sure that we have the yeah, okay, so let me let me rephrase that I'm not sure that we have the expertise on the finance committee and somebody correct me if I'm wrong here To actually for us to build the budget for this particular type of operation Okay, having said that the finance committee can certainly oversee the building of the budget um But that's going to take a longer discussion on the process to go through on actually building it And I was hoping I was going to catch you after the meeting because I was actually hoping to talk to you about it a little bit and uh It's it's a process that's got to start at some point So so let's just talk about it offline. We don't have to make it a formal declaration of responsibilities or anything else that committees need No, good Approval of the september 11th meeting minutes I'm going to move that we approve the september 11th meeting minutes with the changes that were submitted to us By rebecca, she submitted that earlier this afternoon Second, okay, I have a motion to second any further discussion There were a couple other Points of clarification That I received after I sent that out, okay So, um Can you tell me which page I may have one of the hard copies so that I don't have like multiple So, let's say this would be on phase Two Phase two Um in the second paragraph that starts discussion included There was a clarification that there were two appeals to the head of agency Um, and just to further clarify that the claim Was addressed to the head of the agency, which I think is clear in there and not david haley individually Yeah, all right. I mean I would like it to reflect that I'm specifically said I've made two appeals to the head of the agency jeremy hanson that were responded to And secondly the exit the executive session the purpose Was probable potential litigation not only with cv fiber, but by cv fiber against the municipal entity That's not providing data So I made the motion That wasn't that wasn't the motion that I made I'm I'm saying these are clarifications That the minutes are not complete I think we would let's table the minutes till next meeting and get this around and writing Why are they not the Tense discussion around why the request for executive session was made as well as the Uh, two different potential litigations or more as well as Who was responsible for responding to the Okay, right where any actions taken on these Say again for any actions taken on these items you just brought up No, but the reason so we don't really have to have that in the minutes at all So I mean this this is a degree that we don't have to get to if we choose not to And I would I would say they'll find the way they are Dr. Are there any other changes that you have? No, there was just additional clarification of discussion, but there weren't additional actions Okay Need for the discussion You know the action to not go into executive session needs to have the reasons Why we the proposal to go into executive sessions were in there Correct. So the my motion So so we need we need the we need the motion we need the the disposition of the motion And that's really all we need to record. So I think that's what I think allan. That's what you're saying So my motion and I Clarified this because the way it was originally written in the draft minutes that that came a day or two afterwards Didn't have this finding of premature general public knowledge of that discussion The proper civil litigation would clearly place the cbi a substantial disadvantage as a prerequisite to enter the executive session That's language that I that I provided to rebecca. I made the motion So the fact that there were multiple other possible litigants or targets or whatever That was not in my motion I mean it was it may have been brought up as part of the discussion But it was not my motion and is typically up to the person taking the minutes to decide how much Detail they choose to include and we as a board can approve it or not. So I mean it's really up to Everyone here whether to support these meeting minutes As they're amended or or not I think it's merits postponing until you've got more time to digest it So is that because you don't want to invite An open meeting law violation of incomplete minutes here. Okay. Is that a motion to table mr. Whitaker? Yes Okay, is there a second we have two motions on the floor once we for this weekend. So is there a second Motion dies for lack of a second. Is there any other discussion? so the motion is to approve the minutes with the Changes submitted to us by rebecca earlier this afternoon. I trust everybody has had a copy of that All in favor Opposed opposed Abstentions bar shield abstains. I wasn't present Okay So we have One two three four five six seven eight nine ten 11 12 12 in support Okay, so 11 in support one opposed three abstentions And who seconded I think I did I think yeah, okay, that's what I think Okay Roundtable we'll start over new business Uh new business gets I mean you can do it in your little roundtable tidbit when it goes around to you Okay, so why don't you start it off then? All right. Um I think it would be useful for Us or a small committee to consider Any potential improvements on the cud enabling legislation? That's a great point. Thank you for that jim Pass rebecca There are some of us that could use a picture a literal picture of what's on the polls That tells us what we're looking at when we look at a poll Hmm Thank you all for your continuing work here. I do truly appreciate it I'm really curious about the possibility that The minutes could be incomplete when the meeting is recorded and published Somewhere that the public can get at so I don't see How that's even a thing but Okay, I guess All right. I just want to report. I met with delco two people from delco And they are interested in you know working with us in any way that works They're in business and they have a lot of fiber. None of it's really close to us. I think the closest is to Roxbury and Woodbury goes to harvard Anyway, the meeting was good and they would be willing to share a limited share of their You know network data and with a known disclosure agreement that had limite