It could be Because they've always been Australian actors, but like Rick Springfield, they've had to change their accent When they got here in order to be marketable true But I but I could name like I went to an accident on time But I could name a list like 10 12 people that are all you know They're either still working or have had their heyday in the last 20 years that are all exceptional It's in them in the very crowded sort of entertainment market. And I just I don't know I feel like something's going on like you guys I don't know what it is something the water. I don't know They all come from the same school so maybe that that school is and yeah Nida is the the one that pretty much every famous actor you can think of who is Australian comes from that school Hey, by the way, Peter. How do you want me to introduce you these days just? From Sydney morning, Harold Sydney morning. Oh, I was ready to start. I'll meet control. You've got it. I gave it to you when you weren't looking. Oh Fancy that Fancy hat had to run over to the door and get my two vola meals for my smart oven They come packed in ice, but I like to get them in the fridge as soon as possible it's like those Loom on that he's taste of Chicago deep-dish pizzas. I used to order gifts back in ice Dry ice even these aren't dry ice. There's some other gel ice that stays frozen Yeah, I got one of those I keep it I keep a bunch of them in the freezer now because I was keeping them But then after a while, it's like, okay, they're recyclable supposedly so I just put them in their cycle I was thinking about buying a freezer and sticking in the garage just to hold them as long as you know Extra meat from Oscar. I'm on eBay. All right. You guys Yeah, I'm just gonna throw one more link in just the surface studio review. I did a couple weeks ago Oh, good. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, just put it you can insert here. I'll give you a space actually on line 26 Warriors, all right Here we go Daily Tech news show doesn't have any ads. It's powered by you to find out more head to daily tech news show comm slash support This is the Daily Tech news for Wednesday, June 7th 2017. I'm Tom Merritt joining me Scott Johnson as he does on Wednesdays How are you sir? I'm fantastic. Tom's good to be here. Thanks for having me as always And we're lucky enough to have Peter Wells from the City Morning Herald with us as well Peter in our time zone, but still having been through the ringer of WWDC coverage. So we appreciate you joining us man Look, it's a pleasure to be here. Thank you, Tom We're gonna talk with Scott and Peter both about Apple's appeal to creative professionals They they came at you hard on Monday with that keynote Peter's had a chance to actually look at a bunch of these projects products Wrote up a great review for the City Morning Herald about the iMac So we're gonna talk about all of that and of course Scott you you are a creative professional Yeah, I'm really curious about the hands-on because I'm a little conflicted on the side of the world Especially in the middle of a conversation. We're having about Apple trying to appeal to creatives It used to be the other way around and I don't know how that got switched up We have a interesting link to business insider about an article about how the two companies are kind of doing each other's job Right now and it's fascinating But to just say the words Apple is going after creatives feels a little like upside-down land So we'll get to all that I guess. All right, let's start with a few tech things you should know about Twitch expanded its referral program so that any twitch affiliate could get a 5% cut of games bought through links on their channel So you don't have to be a full-on partner just an affiliate. That's still not every single person that streams though, right? Yeah, it's also not it's just nice that there's a middle tier or a way to sort of go from I just stream occasionally and All the way up to partnered something in the middle is kind of nice So I think that's a good move for them Henry Fisker released images of the forthcoming Emotion electric car with a promised range of 400 miles and a top speed well above any modern speed limit These are open for pre-order by the end of June. So Tom start start saving your pennies Fiskers back. We have a competitor for Tesla All right, here's some more top stories Apple plans to put about 400 machines that repair damaged iPhone screens in non Apple repair stores across 25 countries by the end of The year Apple said the distribution of the machines These are the machines you might hear called horizon machines could help reduce wait times for repairs at Apple stores They're just kind of getting overwhelmed Apple said right to repair legislation has nothing to do with this decision One machine has been tested at a Miami Best Buy store They'll keep that one going and then the company will add them to stores in Minneapolis and Sunnyvale, California next you seem slightly Unsure if they mean it when they say it's got nothing to do with the right to repair Why do you say I didn't say anything I didn't say any such thing. I just used an extremely sarcastic tone of voice Yeah, I mean, I don't know whether it does To be honest I think if you take that out of the equation Apple might still want to make the same decision because if they're getting overwhelmed Which they are at the Apple store and they're like look the majority of these are just screen repair Let's license out these machines, you know and take some of the pressure off that would make perfect sense to me Yeah, I think so too. I mean it when they first There was first word of this machine what a year and a half ago or something that it existed and that Apple had this really cool Machine that would swap out your screens and and all that my mind went to oh Well, this will eventually be everywhere I go if I've got a problem with my screen So this seems natural. It's just funny timing is all yeah Peter. What do you think? Yeah, I'm sure it also has nothing to do with the ACCC court case that's happening down here in Australia as well That's what I'll say. I mean Hey, it doesn't it doesn't right? I feel like it's one of those things they do anyway But they certainly look at it and go, you know, and this will also demonstrate that blah blah blah blah blah Absolutely, I mean we've got you know Apple stores in so it's four major cities across the country But there's a lot of space between those four major cities So yeah, if they could have some of these machines in some of the cities that they currently don't have Apple stores in that would Be fantastic as well. They are playing a game of how many how many birds can I actually hit with the single stone? And they're going for more to try to add a few birds Rolling out these new features for elected officials I don't know if you guys have heard about this constituent badges constituent insights and district targeting Badges are for people who live in the officials district and will appear when commenting on content from their elected representative Insights let elected officials and their constituents see what content is popular in the district itself And finally targeting lets officials make posts and polls only viewable by users who live in their district Facebook getting all into the how to parse political information world All about the civics With Facebook because they have that town hall section now as well Which kind of integrates with this and they you know They've got some measures in place to make sure that people aren't constantly switching their addresses so that they can badger Representatives that aren't in their districts. I don't know how you guys feel I look at this and I'm like I'm not opposed to this in any way I think they absolutely should do this and it's great on the priority list. I wonder if it's Going to be as effective as the priority and effort they've applied to it But but I don't want to criticize it because making it easier for you to communicate with your elected officials and for your elected Do officials to hear what their constituents are saying is a good thing? Well, I mean not to put the the hat on made of tinfoil, but Is it possible that these kinds of things are Just peripheral efforts to curb The kind of I don't know how they do this But the kind of vitriol that Facebook is currently known for in political circles and being able to sort of corral things a little bit or at least Give some give some things some sensible borders or some basic ideas of how they can do this Peter Do you think that's what's happening or is this a veiled attempt by Zuckerberg to run for office one day? Well again two birds one stone Multiple birds. Oh, yeah, look, I mean, I think they've got the data. It makes sense for them to do this And yeah, I mean it does sound like a really Needed thing. I mean, I've read stories of of certain politicians being overwhelmed by a kind of a nation nationwide you know a strategy to Change people's minds, but I don't know so I can see I can see the logic behind this I Facebook and politics is just it's just such a weird topic. It's getting to talk about the one thing I will say is the knee-jerk reaction has been oh people are Talking unproductively at people. Let's filter them. Let's provide more moderation and ban tools and that doesn't help the conversation That that may help You know curb the worst offenders, but that doesn't improve discourse This is the kind of thing that actually tries to go more at the root of the problem and say hey Instead of just trying to control what people are saying Let's give people more avenues to try to understand their elected representatives The reason I Scott that I would fall short of saying this really helps to change the tone of discussion is I think that tone is caused By things outside of Facebook. I don't think there's anything Facebook can do about that It's caused by the political institutions and how they're run Yeah, if they want information to continue to flow freely from their users, then they can't do too much to curb that I totally get that and I agree with you. I do think though By by creating a pods of a sort and saying hey come in here And you can have these conversations and do it with these structures is probably a good thing But I also know there's a lot of people are gonna just rebel against this idea They're gonna hate the idea that you're trying to pigeon-toe them or that you that the official will only use targeting I think you might pigeon-hole them because I don't know if you pigeon-toe people that sounds painful Yeah, that's a good point But if but if you know targeting letting officials target their constituents is gonna make a bunch of anarchy-minded people go whatever Facebook Lowell and they're gonna run away with the place on fire like this It's all it's all about semantics at that point right because targeting sounds horrible But all it means is hey, we want to make a post and only the people who actually can vote for us and that we represent We'll see that post because that's all it's you know, that's all it's meant for Or the poll we just want to find out okay people who live in our district. What do you think of this? Mm-hmm be interesting how they see how they verify you are who you are like if you are to be targeted and you are somebody who can vote in the district great, but if you're somebody who's Spoofing your location or there's a thousand other reasons why you know you actually the touch French article goes into that and let me get Let me pull it up so I can get the exact details, but they've got a few measures in place Anyone can fake it address Facebook has put controls users can only be a verified constituent Based on and of course ads started showing up so Based on that a lot Verified constituent based on one address at a time. Oh, okay person changes their address their badges removed from prior posts and Facebook also limits the number of times an address can be changed. Yeah, so you can't just keep That's good. Once you pick an address. It's gonna be hard to keep changing people a poke at it But it's good. I glad I'm glad that they're doing those things I I mean, I'm trying to find a downside to this. I can't really think of one It seems like a responsible civic thing to do and I'm glad they're doing it. Oh No, it is time it's time for me to explain to folks. They have missed last Thursday Justin Robert Young suggested we engage in a summer of sharks In other words, we bring to your attention the security vulnerabilities not to scare you But so that you have lots of examples to maybe scare straight some of those friends of yours who are dismissing Security concerns so we got three of them for you right now security researchers at the cyber security research center at the Ben-Gurion University Have developed a way to send information using the LED activity lights on an infected router Yeah blinking lights so jump in the air gap the infected router So you have to infect the router that's the first step the infected router looks for specified data breaks it down into binary and then Transmit it through LED activity lights on a router's ethernet ports. Here's the second thing first you got to infect the router Then second you have to get a camera or optical sensor pointed at the router So you have to be in proximity You don't necessarily have to have physical access you can go through a window or something But you have to be able to see you have to have line of sight on the router But researchers were able to transfer data at a rate of a thousand bits per second per LED or 0.25 kilobytes per ethernet port Looks like we've lost Scott for a second there, but yeah, I probably got to his router is my guess Yeah, yeah, I mean is this really gonna scare people though? Like how many people are thinking that this is something that could happen to them if if the If the the hoops you have to jump through of getting physical access to the router Are there? Yeah, it's not going to be a terribly practical Way of it of getting at something but it does show and this is what all this research does It does show a potential vulnerability. So at the highest levels If you're involved in in in severely classified information You want to make sure that maybe all your ethernet LEDs are pointed at walls that nobody can get to or they're turned off entirely Or covered with black tape or something So I just want to point out that the the call kicked me And I think it's because of summer of sharks. I think there's no That's what we were suspecting is that maybe someone got to your router Did you see a drone with a camera pointed at your router right before you went there? You mean like the usual drone with a camera that's always have my window. Yeah. Yeah, that would finally got to you All right. Well, let's move along to the next Story in the summer of sharks The NSA contractor reality lay winner. Can I just say for a second? That's the greatest name in the world I know we're all kind of you know having a heyday about this news, but that name reality really it's amazing Anyway was arrested on Saturday for leaking classified information to the intercept about cyber attacks Winner was one of six who had printed the information and the printout that was published by the intercept contains tracking information Used to identify winner every laser printer and this blew my mind by the way when I read this every laser printer uses microscopic dots or lines mostly on color printouts To encode information like date and time and so on printout published by the intercept was made on May 9th at 6 20 a.m In the morning and the lifehacker article that we're using as our source here points to an EFF article where you can actually Check what they mean They show you how to find the microscopic dot use a magnifying glass to read it And then be able to decode the date and time of any printout done by a laser printer That's crazy. Is that a thing that the laser printers? Companies have to adhere to they must like that must be some standards I don't know if it was a have-to or or a should or a anti-counterfitting measure There's some anti-counterfitting measures that have gone in place for this sort of thing Maybe it's to get third-party toner sellers out of the market or something Yeah, it doesn't seem to affect that but I'm sure they wouldn't mind Pete. What do you make of this? This is terrifying. Okay, that's summer of chunks has got to me now. Yeah It's just a date and time but it means anytime you print something people will know exactly when you did it That's how they caught reality lay winner Because they looked at that and said well, okay Who printed on May 9th at 6 20 a.m. And then they got corroborating evidence from email as well But that might have been enough right there. Yeah, if she makes chicken for dinner. Is it winter winter chicken dinner? I was good. I was skipping that one personally. I thought it don't don't get me wrong. I'm no better than you But yeah, hopefully that is what they're feeding reality lay winner in great one more in the summer of sharks researchers from antivirus company e-set published a report Tuesday on a backdoor Trojan that uses comments on Britney Spears official Instagram account to locate control servers that manage data on infected computers This is both funny and also incredibly interesting a fire fox extension Masquerading as a security feature you had to trick people into installing this thing But once it was installed it would compute hash values for each comment on Britney Spears Instagram if the hash matched 183 that would say, okay This is a comment from one of our people or bots It then would run a regular expression on the comments text in order to convert it to a bit.ly URL So it looked for some special characters and after each one of those special characters It would pull out the characters that would make up the bit.ly URL that bit.ly URL would then lead to the control server for the malware Why Britney Spears specifically? I mean why'd they target her because you figure it's not going to go down It's not gonna get deleted, you know and and your comment will be lost in a sea of other comments Nobody will really notice it. Yeah, she's got a lot of followers over there. That's fascinating to me I mean, you know what summer of sharks should continue. Can we have fall of sharks? Winter of sharks as well because man, these are great hack me, baby one more time Attribute that to bio-cat in the chat room, by the way Pete is this are you finally?  Does this push you farther into the waters? This is fantastic. This is so good Yeah, I love everything about this. I mean, yeah, of course you have to install the Firefox extension But I just oh my god, like and what other Amazing Instagram accounts out there are sending messages over the Internet's that we don't know. Yeah We've got steganography hidden messages all kind of cool stuff LED lights jump in the air gap Day for the for the summer of sharks and that's a look at the oh, I'm sorry All right, so this week Apple Attempted to convince creative professionals that they are still serious about them This this is extending their effort that started when they sat down with a limited number of reporters and said hey We haven't given up on the Mac Pro and I think it's fair to emphasize that Apple is not saying that the iMac Pro is the Mac Pro They still intend to come out with a Mac Pro But we'll start with you Scott and then I want to get Pete's Experience from actually being there and finding out Apple's side of the message Scott how did you feel as a creative professional they did in convincing you? so I got really excited when I saw the the sort of little video blip montage thing They showed as they were announcing it. I thought oh my gosh This is the new Mac Pro is my first thought was what that was and then it kind of settled in Oh, they're going like with a pro line of them of the of the desktop all-in-one. That makes sense I think that's a good idea. I'm with them the entire way the specs are amazing Everything sounds great. I'm waiting on pins and needles for a oh and it's a touchscreen that lets you draw on it with the Apple pencil Here you go artists and we finished the loop We've completed the ring and I thought oh, this would be the greatest thing ever Well, that didn't happen, but even then I was like all right. Well, I'm still here. I'm with you I've got a Mac Pro like the trash can style thing now I had a Mac Pro before that one is the great big Metal case so I'm in for these things and then they announced the starting price I don't want to say price starting price of 4,999 now if that included For me, I can't speak for everybody because there are going to be video editors out there who are jumping up and down for joy They're going to be all kinds of other applications for creative professionals that are stoked about what they're going to get with this But without a digitized screen that price isn't worth it for me not right now anyway and That means what would I do? Well? I'll just keep using my waycom or I'll maybe think about Apple's surface studio or all You say digitized screen explain what you mean I mean like a waycom like a digital drawing tablet style input something that supports touch Correct, and if it would have I mean I realized that for Apple to start supporting touch on their PCs They're talking about a complete a big change bigger than Microsoft had to make his Microsoft wasn't making PCs before the surface They came out with a product that the OS was ready for and and that's a better way to do that Apple's got a lot of legacy stuff to worry about. I understand that it's hard and I totally get it But at that price, it's very hard for me to justify it as a digital artist when I have to come up with a Secondary sort of screen option whether it's an existing waycom or any waycom type tablet or using an iPad Pro with a pencil as A remote or mirrored device Which is possible those things are all true, but it's just a little kluji that way and for that price I just can't justify it That's I mean I got my Mac Pro desktop for less than that and not that different on power And it's probably way more than you don't need a Zeon processor You you I mean it's it's nice to start it. What is it 18 gigs of RAM? But you know you don't necessarily have to have that like this is this is More than you need it's probably a good bargain for the price But it's it's beyond it's a workstation which is beyond what you need as a creative professional And maybe the the improvements we're seeing in the in the regular iMac line Shouldn't be discounted. They are they are a significant leap as well So that may be great for most everybody What I just really had hoped from them Was something that went further it said hey creative professionals not only not not only have we not forgotten about you But we're thinking about you in these new ways We want you to be able to draw and paint and do and this and that and the pencil is awesome It's amazing the the latency on that thing beats my waycom beats surface beat surface studio like not even those aren't even close to how Well that pencil behaves on my iPad Pro to give me a full desktop experience that I could fold down and use for 27 inch drawing space on a 4k device would be incredible and they I just feel like that was the one thing They would have done here that they didn't do that isn't to say won't get that one day doesn't mean that this is you know a Bad value even I mean you're getting a heck of a machine for that money, but there is a lot of hardware I could buy PC even on on the Mac side that would do most everything we need to get done without going too crazy So I just not not entirely sure which level of creative this is for this is probably for Huge company they hire for illustrators and we're investing in $15,000 worth of hardware for those guys And that's a company decision But this isn't so much a I make things and I do it on my own or I have a small company or as tiny business I don't think this is so much for us Right well, I mean so okay, so so have you played around with the Microsoft Surface Studio I have so so my my criticisms of that are actually there's some things I like about it I like that it's a big drawing tablet, but it's got terrible lag on the drawing stylus It does yet. It's the worst in the market. It's bad. Just straight up bad. They're even there's their surface Pro 2 had better Functionality than their current surface stuff including the studio that was probably because it was a waycom thing And they were working with them on that that's supposedly coming back around with the four but Outside of all of that. I was really disappointed in the lag and the overall performance was a little not great And if you add that added up the base price of this compared to a similarly packed Surface Pro Studio is only about $800 difference. I mean 800 bucks is a sizable amount of cash But but that's the main difference and you're not getting as good a processor as good of Potentially as good a video card performance and that sort of thing with the surface Pro but to answer your question Yes, I've used surface studio. I walked away wishing it was more and felt like that wasn't worth the money because they weren't It's funny. I want a combination of these guys. I want that that Apple iMac Pro looks like I want that thing Inside and out and then I want the drawing capability on the surface studio, and then I'm the happiest guy in the world Yeah, yeah, and I honestly don't know what the surface studio Who who it is eventually aimed at because yeah, like I do feel that I brought in a bunch of Engineers and artists because I work at a university I kind of outsource my review and got a whole bunch of these Very high-end people to come in and see if they could work on the surface studio and see what their thoughts were and yeah Everyone kind of walked away with that same impression. It's gorgeous to look at they really loved it They loved the hinge and how it all worked But it ran Photoshop quite slow I mean if you look at the way they describe the the hybrid drive as rapid hybrid hybrid drive It's not really true. It's it's a very slow laptop drive in there Unfortunately, and that seems to be I mean, you know, and that's an easy thing to replace to be fair So you could actually you know put in a decent SSD and get better speed because it seemed to be the IO That was the the main thing that was slowing that that studio down But I don't know I mean like I first of all I think to your point about the Mac Pro I Yeah, I I cut 4k video every week I don't feel I need the Mac the iMac Pro either like it's it feels like a much much more powerful machine that I Would ever kind of get the the the decent use out of especially for 4,999, I mean, that's that's gonna be Probably seven and a half grand in Australia I would say but again to be fair to Apple They're the numbers did stack up when when you did compare the internals that they were talking about of the iMac Pro to You know something like a HP workstation one of the you know the the similar specs Intel Xeon workstations that you can get from them Ace in our chat room did some math and said I could do it on my own if I did all the work myself and you know Got the parts and everything I could do it for $3,874 which sounds about right When you're paying you're paying for the convenience of having Apple have designed and assembled it for you And then a little bit of the Apple tax for it being the Apple II magic Well, does that include a 5k monitor though? Because I'm good question Yeah, you're gonna pay 2800 for a 5k monitor just to begin with so yeah, that is absolutely true And that's that's the one thing I wanted to mention here I don't think that they this isn't one of those cases where I go Apple's so overpriced on everything That's not how this is not the problem same with the trash can power or Mac Pro when it came out It wasn't an issue so much that that we felt like we they were having high margins and screwing everybody over and getting You know make for grand on the thing. It's just that Does it have the stuff I need or not? It has things you don't need right? Way more I said 1832 gigs of RAM, right that that's nice But it's not like you have to have that right now to do what you're doing Arguably though. You're like, okay great. I'll take 32. Do you need a Zeon processor though? Like there's there's stuff in here that is really workstation oriented that isn't necessary for you Scott I would think is that right? I think that that's fair to say although I mean I always try to go a little over when I invest like when I bought the Mac Pro this most recent one The idea was that it was gonna last me for a while and I wanted to have it be a little OP And so I look at this in the same way I guess if this thing if this thing was like 3999 it'd feel like a steal could given what's under the hood But I'm still not sure it's me who should get it like I whatever their Mac Pro is and there's all these rumors about it being The next iteration being much more modular kind of going back to the idea of you know The way they used to be more configurable or user customizable if that's true My clock says wait for that and at least see what that is before I consider an iMac Pro And this is base product There's other stuff I want on this thing that aren't including this base price even though it's pretty pretty beefy in the base, but you know But even the spec'd out Non-pro iMac is a very very good machine like I was I was trying to break it as much as possible over the last couple of days before I wrote the review and it it handled Incredible a task that I threw at it So, you know the the the one that they they talked about was the fact that you can do 4k like four or five Streams of 4k at the same time in in funnel cut and that actually worked like that that was not just you know PR and so, you know, it's a very very powerful machine I get what you're saying though as the one thing that You know when you look at that surface studio that is so impressive is the idea of drawing on that gigantic canvas So and I kind of feel that right now what Apple are missing somewhere in their workflow first of all Yeah, of course, it's kind of a bit of a pain that you You have to buy two devices to pull that off that same kind of idea off in in the Apple side of things You have to buy an iPad Pro and then you also have to buy the the whatever computer You did you decide to go with but I don't feel that there's a good enough workflow between those two devices and and you know when I was watching the keynote and I think it was if serif labs Let me get the name right That's right. I think it was serif. Yeah. Yeah, and they showed off affinity photo Which watching that demo and I got to play with with the software a little bit later That software is what? Photoshop on the iPad should be like it's it's incredible that Adobe Don't have a really great workflow that you could draw on one of those beautiful, you know 12 inch or 10.5 inch iPads and then just know that it's sinking back to your real photoshop Later if you wanted to do kind of extra work on that big screen They do have that as a thing like they have apps on the iPad right now use an iPad Pro and I have the pencil and I love it It's great, but The workflow isn't so much that Adobe doesn't have good connectivity because the truth is I can with my CC account I can basically start something in their draw or their paint app Draw being equivalent in the drawing ones the you know the photoshop equivalent I can start work on that layers and everything and then I can say okay Then I can say send a photoshop and on my desktop bloop open photoshop, and there's the document Now that's awesome that I like the problem is their app on the their apps on the iPad are Terribly Not good. They're not good. They're just straight up not they're not photoshop. They're not full-blown illustrator They're not full versions of their applications. They're these small watered-down weird Kind of half usable not that great apps the best apps are these weird independent ones like procreate I love that thing. Thankfully it converts to psd, but I got to do this weird dropbox dance with it So yeah, so it's the frustration from an artist standpoint, and there are a lot of us out there working on this every comic book You read every illustration you see every billboard that goes up somebody's using probably an industry standard waycom tablet to do it on and The idea that that Apple could get back in the creative game so strong and offer a Touchscreen with you know pens even if it didn't have my fingers capable Just letting the pencil communicate with it with its levels of you know pressure sensitivity and all of that Would have been a huge boon to this and then suddenly it's worth that price because if you're going another route Let's say let's say you spend 1500 on a well deck PC or Mac You've still got to go spend two grand or more on On you know a professional level waycom More than that money anyway if they would have combined these in this case No, brainer. It would absolutely be the next thing I would have to invest in for my business Yeah, but I can kind of see that they want a screen that for their iMac especially a screen that It's gonna look the best for the majority of the users that they have and I would I would I mean I don't know how many people are using Wacom's with iMacs right now. I'm sure you know everyone who does anything like what you do in a day job for sure but You know, maybe their breakdown their internal breakdowns show that you know, it's it's designers Who who aren't using a wake on or or video editors or whatever? They did seem to be once again a bit of a massive push against the how well it does with video, so Maybe that's that's what they're targeting here I and I don't know whether if they digitize that screen that gigantic screen first of all how much more expensive would that screen become and Would they see that you know some of the? Well, I also just don't think they want to reinvent OS Mac OS at right now to be touch capable So I think that's actually the biggest holdup here is you've got two different operating systems and Apple does not feel It's worth messing with Mac OS to put touch Capability into it. It may be a simple like I was saying earlier. It may be as simple as Adobe and other Leaders in the space. I mean, they're the biggest They should be all out ahead of this thing and if we're if we're really gonna invest in a platform Maybe they're not as confident as Apple is but if they really believe that the future is there I I need those commercial grade quality applications to run the way they do on my Desktop in the same way they run on my on my tablets or portable devices And I know it can be done Procreate is the best version of Photoshop that is in Photoshop for me on a portable device I know they can give me the tools the brushes the the nuance that everything I need I just don't know why they're not doing it So we this would be a very different conversation then and and there are also apps This should be mentioned for those out there who may be hunting around for something as a solution There's an app and I forgot the name I wish I'd had it here darn it, but it lets me via Wi-Fi or a dongle through USB mirror my iPad Pro with the with my Mac and it lets me use it as a Essentially becomes a waycom so you can bring up real Photoshop in there and use it as if it's Photoshop And there's really no noticeable latency or lag or issues It's very very impressive, but it costs another I think it's 750 a month or some monthly charge Right, right, but anyway for professionals that may be okay But you understand what I mean by it being kluji if you say here's the Microsoft's all things being equal Let's say both hardware platforms were equal and he said well Here's the surface studio and here's the iMac Pro and they've got all the same specs I know this isn't true, but they have all the same specs But one you can draw on and the other one is just real good at video stuff But you'll have to plug extra stuff into it to draw and you're gonna go for the one you can draw on For artists and creatives even if you're not an artist You still need a place to sketch out ideas and annotate stuff and rotate 3d models and like I I don't know It just feels like they're behind the curve on that Yeah, but I so if if the rumor that was around just before dub dub DC was that they would give you the ability Natively to to use the iPad with an iMac would that be enough? I'm just trying to think if they're because it does really like what is the size of the gap here There's slots that Apple's still trying to fill back in okay So there's so what you just said there is definitely a step in the right direction if they gave me a native way And a lot of what I owe iOS 11 looks like they're doing Especially in the way of tablets is gonna go a long way like file management some other stuff's gonna help But if they made it so there was sort of a built-in way Because I'm in it kind of like AirDrop or something because you're in the ecosystem You're now easily connecting those two devices and it's now acting as you're drawing tablet That's great, but you're also now telling me I have to limit myself to seven or twelve point five inches rather than my customary 24 inches or my 27 inches or whatever the waycom is that you've happened to buy So you are making a concession again for size that may be a small one. I'd be willing to make but You see what I mean like there's no and everyone's gonna have a different perfect scenario I totally understand that but the perfect scenario for me is that monster with a Tablet-enabled pen touchscreen. Oh my gosh By some day some day sky pre-order it. I would Hey, I want to thank everybody who participates in our subreddit helps us put together the topics the stories that we talk about every day You can submit stories and vote on yourself at dailytechnewshow.reddit.com Before we get out of here real quickly a couple of messages in our slack Andrew was talking about Plex and said hey I know it's not necessarily some people are saying it's not the babysitter friendly But it works pretty well for my wife babysitter dog serat and grandparents When the babysitter comes over all I have to say is Tivo is input one movies or input two as a test I always leave the Tivo on when I leave and when I get home 75% of the time the person to switch the input and is watching a Movie on Plex. This is also easy enough for my four-year-old to do the reason this works is a hundred percent related to the Shield TV and other set top boxes two years ago when I was using a computer no one knew how to use it except me Hmm I love Plex. I love Plex to death and I totally agree with this It is so easy to set up in fact. Well, it's not easy to set up. That's a lie I've set it up for other people But once it is set up and ready to go so I've set it up at my sister's house my mom's house And now they just use either the Chromecast or the Apple TV to go to that nice friendly Plex icon And that's all of their movies and TV and they love it. So it's yes. I love Plex to death Well, that's it for this show Thank you again, Peter Wells for taking the time to join us. I hope this was more relaxing than the rest This was so lovely. Yeah, nice way to end the week. Thank you if people want to follow what you're doing. Where should they go? Just to Twitter and Peter Wells on the Twitter's Twitter.com slash Peter Wells will do mr. Scott Johnson What about yourself? Well, people want to see some of the work produced by currently a way calm Maybe one day in the future something else they can follow me at on twitch actually where I do a lot of this stuff live You can find that over at twitch.tv slash frog pants And you can find the results of said art at frog pants calm And I'm looking forward to seeing all of your listeners who are coming to Nerdtacular in less than three weeks And of course you as well Tom. Yeah, if you want to know the details We've got a special panel special guests coming up all that sort of thing You've just got to support us on patreon patreon.com slash DTNS. We'll get you a subscription at merely a dollar a month to a monthly update and Also get you an exclusive RSS feed, you know before the show We were talking about mystery flights and opal mines and all kinds of stuff And if you want to hear what we were talking about you get a special RSS feed at patreon.com slash DTNS Our email address is feedback daily tech news show calm We're live Monday through Friday for 30 p.m. Eastern 20 30 utc If you want to jump to the chat room at diamond club TV or listen to us on alpha geek radio calm We also have a Facebook page Facebook comm slash daily tech news show and our website is of course daily tech news show calm back Tomorrow with the summer of sharks and Justin Robert young talk to you then This show is part of the frog pants network get more at frog pants calm Man that was great you guys we packed in a lot of discussion there. Yeah, I was hoping I was worried we were gonna go long I hope we didn't go too long didn't it When we were talking I'm like, oh, we've got such a substantive discussion and then we're actually under the 40 Maybe a little longer than the 35. I've been hitting lately, but yeah. Oh, that was great It's so weird to see me on the side of I'm Microsoft. I'm usually on the critical. I'm on the critical end of something else not Apple I really like Apple products. I use them for so much stuff and I don't know They were singing my song yesterday, but they didn't have the last verse to that song. That's all Yeah, I mean, I don't give me wrong man I can totally get that the idea of Actually, you know that disconnect between using a wake up So you're not actually drawing directly on the screen that must also kind of mess with your head in some way Not that I do it myself But yeah, is that a disconnect as well that that kind of screws up the workflow a bit Well, are you just so used to it now? Well, I mean drawing on That's funny because when I use so this this wake on which is a screen. That's a big 24 inch, whatever screen It's you get so used to drawing on it but the biggest thing you get used to is you get used to being able to hit command Z when you screwed up or Pinch and zoom or whatever when you need to get close to something and then someone will hand me illustration board or a canvas or a poster or something and I'm working in traditional pens and inks and stuff and I'll my brain will try to do those things Oh, I don't like that line and I'll my my head will tell me to command Z it and I can't It's the weirdest thing or make a layer and work underneath a layer or something Like I'm trained. I'm trained for this stuff so bad now that my all my old techniques are suffered a little bit I think but It's very strange, but for me. I mean, I don't know I Just think if they look what you said earlier and what you didn't get a chance to talk about too much what you said earlier about Them making it so natively an iPad Pro could just your Mac would see it and now suddenly it's sharing or something Yeah, then we're kind of done with the with the whole thing like I'm gonna do something really creative Hopefully that'll work and they're tacky or I'm gonna put an Apple TV HDMI it to the overhead projection system in the in the in the hall there What we're doing that stuff in the in the main ballroom and I'm gonna draw on an iPad Pro that will be Miring to that to the Apple TV and then showing this up on the thing So we're gonna do a live drawing session where they'll get to see real-time me working on this thing without any weird wires Or anything it'll literally be Wi-Fi to Apple TV to projector And if I'm to go back in time and look at my options, you know five six years ago This is we're living in freakin fantastic land right now Yeah, yeah, right. It's incredible So I part of me is like a little picky and I shouldn't be because this stuff's amazing no matter where I'm doing it Hmm, but no, I totally I mean for the people I've spoken to that do the same kind of stuff You do it does feel like that there's a kind of disconnect on the Apple side of things and a I don't know screwing up the landing on the Microsoft side of things that neither side has gotten it Right just yet and and they're still kind of in that race to see who will get it first. I really do think that yeah Well my first of all my my conspiracy theory is Sarah Flabs was up there yesterday to shame Adobe Hopefully this is not I mean even if that's not not intentional. It certainly did yeah fella used to see in Adobe in that slot Yeah, exactly And so I wouldn't be surprised if they're there for the September launch of iOS 11 when it's they've got more time to actually Talk about it and hopefully then they can bring it up because they always bring up Microsoft in Adobe these days Just to show, you know how they've got now you can do real work on these these iPads So and in Adobe's you know to their credit. It's possible that they Don't a hundred percent think that they're they may have marketing or numbers that show a huge uptick in PC Adoption of their services. So if they're seeing that and they're seeing a drop on the Apple and Mac side and the iOS thing never really completely took off for them They may not be that motivated to give me a full-blown Photoshop experience on on iOS I don't know. Yeah, but that's the chicken and egg thing, you know, like you who's gonna use iOS the Adobe apps on iOS if the Adobe apps are that great. Yeah, that's a totally Absolutely val away to look at it. I don't know like I love them. I love CC. It's my favorite service I pay for But I sometimes just I sometimes just get real anxious about what's about to get pulled out from under me if you could just give me the guts of that iMac with the capabilities but Hope the honed capabilities of the studio surface. Hmm. Oh my gosh. Let's see. It's not even an option. I can't combine them It's like there's not it's it's never gonna be a thing unless Apple says well Yeah, we'll also make this a touch screen, but I'm but I'm more and more everybody seems to be in agreement that Apple may never make it Mac OS a touchable thing Hmm. I don't know Do you think they ever be forced to do that because it just seems crazy if they haven't done it by now Will they ever well? I wonder like what is it with the studio because you certainly aren't gonna be drawing gorilla arm, right? Is it just like you see yourself laying it flat all the time? It would be flat 90% of the time for me Yeah, I mean That's just cuz I'm always drawing on it But then again, I mean I do like this I'm looking at you guys and I've got a screen right here where I'm doing all my other kind of production and then right over here to the right is this waycom and I'm kind of used to having I mean if I mean you could get an iMac Pro and put a walk-up tablet on It. Oh, which is what I do. I mean Like this one's not changing what your workflow now. So yeah, and this one's already you can see it's already kind of space gray, so Totally don't eat the I'm a pro man.  I've dealt with so very many of them Enterprises maybe yeah, yeah, but even an enterprise. Why would you buy it? I mean that makes no sense You mean the pro or the the top spec I Mac. Oh, no the top spec pro The pro you would be is similar to any workstation like a Dell or anything else So the companies just buy them in bulk because they're like we need a bunch of workstations. Maybe maybe I Know one area where we will buy them tomorrow if they were on sale out like at our uni We've got a VR lab and the whole thing is just set up again I should really not be saying this but the whole thing is set up to kind of like impress VSTs and stuff as they walk by and they would love to have shiny iMacs in there instead of like pouring kind of Dells under the disks But you the thing is like you're you can stagger your upgrades With with a commoditized PC even if I had this exact right because you could I mean it's just you would be cheaper that way Yeah, yeah, I'm so sorry. Yeah. Oh, I'm sorry. I'm just I'm really having a hard time trying to see a market for The Mac pro the iMac pro is for the enterprise market. I guarantee that's like that's where they But that doesn't make any sense because you would not be able to do your legacy You would need to you would need to buy a whole new level or a whole new grouping of Items that you couldn't just buy in bulk like hard drives Oh, we can just you know, we can get ourselves like, you know a bundle of 100 hard drives that we we would go through over a course of the year The iMac pro I doubt would have that same level of ease or That's why I feel like the iMac pros actually aimed at me I'm the one they want to get it. They just want me to spend too much money on it Whereas the Mac pros if they're truly modular We don't know any of this till they come out But if they're modular and upgradeable and kind of back to that thinking then that's a much better Enterprise solution. So so for me, it's like they they want me the the entrepreneur single running dude to have the This monster machine that that doesn't have much in the way of upgrade paths Because it's just simple easy set it up and go and they want the other stuff for for Corporate, but the corporate stuff might be cheaper because you can you don't have to Go for the max bottom level configuration and you don't have to have a screen like that if you don't want her my suspicion is When ibm comes in and consults and says here's the here's the here's the thing you need That'll be a bunch of macbook pros iMac workstations and and some other server Oriented stuff that's not coming from apple But ibm's doing a bunch of apple enterprise rollouts for people now and that's where the they're just going to be like Hey, we've got the entire package. This is everything you need Yeah, absolutely. Yeah, I mean You know our enterprise, you know the way we we purchase as an enterprise customer is Every every user gets a computer for three years and it gets replaced every three years and we never You know upgrade the internals on any of those and there's going to be a system That's going to be saying exactly what roger was just saying which is this doesn't make sense. Why are we doing this? Yeah, yeah, no, no, no that that I understand. I work with him.  First of all to to Impress the the silicon belly talent that they're trying to to get to work for them And also just to make you know a cool looking lab A cool looking space you could do that much cheaper with a bunch of top spec iMacs Right if there's is there anything embossed on the side of the iMac pro that says I dropped way too much money for this computer Yeah, it's space gray. You can't get space gray in a regular iMac. So Some applications you need a zeon for there there are Yeah, definitely xserve can take can take advantage of all 18 cores. So it'll go you know and so Maybe I mean like when back in revision three we finally ditched all the the the mac stuff because It was it was to the point where um The level of support that apple was providing wasn't wasn't there to be enterprise level and so we essentially went Right, which is why apple started signing those contracts with companies like ibm because then that support comes through them We'll see I don't i'm not I doubt they'll have the I doubt they'll have that big of an impact and that yeah, I would I'm gonna say this too I don't think the I don't think the surface pro or this excuse me the surface Studio is priced that well either for its specs. It's kind of overpriced for what it is It's kind of the same it's a laptop built on a lamp arm exactly and so I don't even know and I'm still not sure I'd love to know numbers on that How many of those have they sold because they don't are you know that that's a brand new product Kind of out of nowhere for microsoft I don't know how many of those got pushed What's interesting though is there is a definite shift From kind of the commoditized pc beige box where You could request whatever you want in it, you know, whatever specs to something. That's a lot more Screwed down that you can't upgrade easily, but uh on the flip side offers you a lot more uh a user friendly I think interface Than you would have otherwise. I don't know it's it'll be interesting to see Long term how this works out Because like, you know like you were saying like Would you need iMac iMac pro? You know running xserve would be great, but do you really need would you really want that sitting in your in your rack unit? Oh, yeah, it's right there on the iMac pro sitting Did I say except I meant the uh the coding one what the hell is it called? Xcode xcode, yes, of course Anyway


Lift up your offerings to heaven. Say oh lord. Oh lord. I lift up my offering I lift up my offering to the hills to the hills from whence come at my health from a signal But I decree and declare this offering this offering this amount this amount as I saw it As I saw it, it will reap it will reap a hundred fold a hundred fold in the next in the next one hundred days Say to yourself I was care-created to prosper I was made to be fruitful I was made to increase in the life of this world The common traits of someone who is a known false teacher is the fact that they desire to enrich themselves Ed Citronelli who is someone who I obviously and vehemently opposed in his doctrine Believes I believe that he is a false teacher not someone who just espouses some false teachings But a practicing false teacher a heretic Loser! Loser! Loser! Out! Jury and demon. I command right now. The glory. My goodness. You see me? You are seeing glory. A man. Yes. I look like Jesus. Yes. And what he has done is kind of typical part of the playbook which is to speak of tithing as a way To kind of guilt people into giving what he has done as a matter of fact even to go above and beyond the tithe Kind of in the subtle sense but what you'll notice often times when they do so they don't stick to the scriptures So let's get ready for God's offering. We believe in tithing. I said we believe in tithing. Amen I don't care how famous whoever said what he said. I don't care. Amen I will believe the report of the Lord better. Amen Well when you say that you will believe the report of the Lord better The question is what report of the Lord are you speaking of because where did the Lord tell us as Gentiles to tithe? As a matter of fact where in the scriptures does Jesus tell anyone to tithe? Let's just let's go to the passages. Let's go to the Bible since we're talking about believing the report of the Lord versus somebody else Which I think is a good thing Let's see if we can find if we can locate where Jesus speaks of telling someone about to tithe Let's see if we can go somewhere in the scriptures and see if we can find where Jesus told anyone to tithe So if we go to let's just type in the word tithe and if we pull up on the screen We'll notice that there are two places in the New Testament where the word tithe is mentioned specifically mentioned by Jesus It's the exact same account. It's just shown up in two different two different passages in Matthew 23 23 and in Luke 11 42 And look what Jesus is saying you tell me if you think that Jesus is telling anyone to tithe if he's obligating anyone to tithe Let's read it He says woe to you scribes and Pharisees Hippocrates for you tithe meant and deal and cumin and have neglected the way to your matters of the law justice and mercy and faithfulness These you ought to have done without neglecting the others and so the same thing is stated in Luke 42 as it is in Matthew 23 23 And just to be clear tithe is just simply 10% And so the question is are we supposed to tie well, I've stated before I've done videos before where we are not obligated to tide Now notice what Jesus connects the tithe to he says for you tithe meant and deal and cumin and have neglected the way to your matters of the law So he's referencing letting us know that what they're doing is an obligation to the law but they neglect the way to your matters of the law Not so much to tie in other words. He's a even diminishing the tide The tithe was for purpose under the old law under the old covenant but that's no longer enforced today We were not under the old covenant as a matter of fact as Gentiles were not under any of those covenants But if anyone wants to have to adhere to this principle of tithing that's commanded by the law Then you can also adhere to all the other elements of the law And so it would be false for him to state that he is going to believe the report of the Lord Now he is going to bring up something that Paul says and I think he twist that as well I hear you sir Do you know that the New Testament given is more than...  Tithe 10% Paul, Paul, Paul Somebody say Paul Paul He said to the Corinthians In 2 Corinthians chapter 9 and also chapter 10 Yes He said that a man should give a proportion to what he has Yes Ahhhh So if we take that literally meaning that we should give exactly in proportion to what God has given God has given us an awful lot and so we should give the same thing Match that back Well one, God doesn't need that money 2 that's not quite what he's saying and if we look at what Paul is saying Keep it in context Let's go to what he's saying in 2 Corinthians chapter 9 And look what Paul says Looking at verse 6 he says the point is this Whoever sows sparingly will also reap sparingly Whoever sows bountifully will also reap bountifully Each one must give as he has decided in his heart Notice what he says Decided in his heart Not reluctantly or under compulsion For God loves a cheerful giver And so to compel someone to kind of obligate someone into giving a certain amount Well that's what he's doing And so he's violating the whole premise that Paul is bringing up Paul is not saying to give a particular amount Paul has said Look what he says He says that each one has decided in his heart to give Not reluctantly So here's how I would say If a person wants to give $40 If a person wants to give $400 And they can do so cheerfully Not reluctantly Well then amen But if you give $401 And that causes you to frown Well then don't give it God does not need that extra dollar As a matter of fact God doesn't need anything What he needs obviously is your obedience And he wants you to support the ministry But not under some compulsion as he's doing Okay so he said Do the math fool Well what math? Again we're going by the scriptures And so the scriptures are telling us Not to give under some sort of compulsion Which is what he's trying to do And he wants to guilt people He's going to offer promises So either entice them by their heart Their desires What they might want Or guilt them like You know what yeah God has done this I've got to give more than I was planning on giving Even though it causes me to do so reluctantly Is more than ten Is more If you have a thousand dollars A hundred dollars is not in proportion I hear you sir So that means in proportion is more than ten Now before we continue with what he's saying Let's keep in mind what he is going to do He is going to try to flatter the people Try to entice the people Try to as Paul says Because they have itching ears They will go to someone like an antitronel They will go to him to hear What they want to hear That you're going to be blessed You're going to be the greatest thing Since sliced bread You're going to have the greatest things You're going to have the best things You're going to be blessed You're going to be out of debt You'll never be poor Your children will never be poor He's making promises that God never promised That there's no where Any promises like that found in the Bible But he makes these promises And he does so for a particular reason I want to put this on the screen He says that Paul tells us in 1 Timothy chapter 6 And I start in verse 5 Because he's speaking about these people like him Who are depraved in the mind And deprived of the truth He says imagining that godliness Is a means of gain This man does not fly around And he didn't go coach He lives pretty nicely And that's typically how false teachers do They want to enrich themselves Off of you and your money Let's continue what he says But godliness, Paul says With contentment is great gain That's the game that you ought to be looking for Godliness He says that with contentment Being content and being godly That is great gain Look what he says For we brought nothing into this world So as I'm speaking of worldly possessions And monetary things We brought nothing into this world And we cannot take anything out of this world But if we have food and clothing With these things We will be content But those who desire to be rich Fall into temptation Into a snare Into many senseless and harmful desires And plunge people into ruin And destruction For, look what he says And this is really what Ed probably needs to listen to He says for the love of money Is a root of all kinds of evil And that's what we see here And he's going to entice them Those who also who follow him With that same love Because let's be clear The people that follow him They also have this love for money I receive You will never lack bread I receive You will never lack water Amen You will never lack shelter Amen Your children will never beg Amen I said your children will never beg Amen I said your children will never beg Amen Any of your children will never beg Amen I speak to this section I said any of the children will never beg Amen Your children will never be homeless Amen Your children will never be back up on Amen Your children will never go to shelters Amen Your children will never depend on government handouts. Your children will never depend on government handouts. Your children will never have to open a case in the welfare office. I say your children will never have to open a case in the welfare office. Ah, they will be blessed forever. They will be blessed forever. Anybody that is in this ministry, if you're poor, just stay here three months. That's all. Under three months, that poverty garment, there's an angel here that changes garments. Yes. Oh, you didn't hear what I said. I said there's an angel here that changes garments. Amen. And so because they desire these things, I mean anyone would want their children to be taken care of, anyone would want to be also financially well off themselves. But if that's the goal, if that's what you're looking for, and that's how you're trying to use this ministry, if that's how you're trying to use the gospel, well then you'll have your reward. You may even have some monetary rewards here on earth, but that will be the extent of your reward, of your rewards. That will be the extent of your blessings. So avoid someone like an Ed who wants to put someone back under a yoke of bondage, who wants to preach a different gospel, a gospel of works. Because keep in mind, he's trying to obligate people to the law and to paying this tithe without keeping the rest of the law. But the only purpose of doing so is just to either enrich himself or tap into the minds, into the motivations, the greedy motivations of others, for them to also be wealthy or other people who might be feeling guilty. Because you know what? I want to be a, I don't want to disappoint God. I want to honor God, be faithful to God. And so he has given me. And so you know what? I'm going to give more, but not just 10% because he's done for me. I feel guilty in only giving 10. Let me give 20%. Let me give all that I don't have. And so there in, there is the reason why we need to be careful about people like him. Number one, but he is not the issue. The real issue is us just simply not reading our word because if we read our word, we'll see that this, that he's saying that he's speaking of is not found in scripture. And someone like him should not be a threat, should not be a problem if we just do like we're supposed to and read the scriptures that God has given us, amen.


You got it ready?    Yeah, that's right You're not there whenever you want You wish you were stuck around But I knew then what I know now Could've been a demolition derby driver Cause I got pretty good crashing cars Maybe I tried my hand at college But that didn't get me very far Maybe I could have been a pilot Cause I could've spent everybody's time on how to fly I believe that I see so many options to choose from Then what I know now What I have, let me hear you I have a big ol' fuckin' house Yeah, that's right You're not there whenever you want You wish you were stuck around But I knew then what I know now All right, this brings it all home right here I could've been anything I wanted Exactly true So I guess I'll just be satisfied Not for me That ain't for me What I have, let me hear you Why have a big ol' fuckin' house? Yeah, that's right You're not there whenever you want You wish you were stuck around But I knew then what I know now One more time You're not there whenever you want You wish you were stuck around But I knew then what I know now You're not there whenever you want You wish you were stuck around But I knew then what I know now


For those of you that don't know my history, the inspiration I'm going to put up here is probably a name that everybody knows. When I first came to New York, I started working at Intar on a play called Divinas Palabras, which was an adaptation by someone who's very, very dear to Intar, Lorenzo Mans. I was Max Febrar's assistant, and why is everybody laughing? Because we know Max. Well, you know what? Max actually did some great things, and I think that needs to be said especially here. And one of the greatest things Max ever did in that Max way was yell at me, and he kept them yelling at me because all I ever did was say, no. He said, no, we can't do that. We can't do that. We can't do that. And that was one of the things that I still struggle with today. Don't say no. Don't say no. Don't say no. The hardest job of an artistic director, right? That's what we do all day, say no. So what I would like to offer is two things. One from Max, the word no, and hopefully I can get rid of it on this often. And the other thing I'd like to also put out there is something by Eduardo Machado, and I'm sure I'll get a lot of laughs from that as well. Eduardo Machado also taught me a couple of things. One of the things that Eduardo always says, and I think it's a great thing for all of us to hear right now, is we should not fear the audience, they should fear us. And so from Max, no. From Eduardo, fear us. Thank you, Lou. Thank you, Lou. I would next like to invite Tony Garcia. Hi, everybody. So with having Luis here today, it's great. I just think it's such a great opportunity that we have the founder of, for us, the Chicano Theater movement, all of us. You have, we are all your children, and that's in a good way, Lupe. None of us are coming up and going, hey, guess what? But we are all part of that, but we are also spawned by the Chicano movement. And I have two great fathers in that movement in Cesar Chavez and Corky Gonzales. And Corky Gonzales was from Denver, and when you come to Denver, you find a very active Chicano constituency. We elected a Chicano mayor before LA. No offense, but it's verdad. And we've always had that kind of history. So after Cesar died, Corky was at our performance. And Corky said, you know, Cesar is a martyr for the movement. Although he didn't die physically like a lot, you know, wasn't killed violently like other people, the wear and tear on his body from the fasting and from the stress that's created by being in that position, I believe killed him, right? And Corky had just come in after he had had a heart attack, and when he had a heart attack, he actually died. They brought him back to life, and during that process, while he was dead, he lost all memory of his participation in the movement. And he would come in and he would say, I love coming here because I remember things. I don't remember myself being there, but they seemed like they were a part of me. So recently, the production we just finished is Luis Valdez's brother, Daniel, and he's called Mestizo. He wrote this gorgeous album and I was going to play some music for you, but that's just too technologically complicated for me to put that into. There would have been a great underscore for this piece, but there was a segment in there where we, for a song he did called, oh god, I'm not going to remember that title, but there was an underscore and there was a video montage that was, and this was a preference in my words, and this is what I have as a piece of paper.  Thank you, Tony, and I want to thank everyone who's placed items on the altar. Our altar now is complete. It's full of the inspirations of all of us participating. So a breath perhaps. Thank you. And I'm happy to turn it over to Kinan. So we spent the morning here, sorry about that, discussing four elements in a type of environmental analysis. Leadership, new work collaboration models, technology-driven communications, and festivals. We are now going to come back into our conocimiento groups to be able to reflect upon the wisdom that was shared here, but also most importantly, as I said, to add to the record itself. So if there's a festival that you know of that may be two or three people, or a small regional local festival, throw that into the record so it becomes part of the collective wisdom. So you will discuss those four elements as well as reflect upon the proceedings. We are going to do this between now and 12 noon. You will submit the group leaders know to submit their papers or their materials to Jamie by 12 noon. So the conversation has to be complete. Then at that point, we are going to take a little bit of a lunch break. It means you're going to go get your food and then return back to your conocimiento groups to continue the conversation around those four areas. But now you are going to start dreaming, dreaming big about the future, what is possible in each of those areas. And now as creative beings, we want to start imagining that world today before we segue into the actual creation of that world. So those are the two elements of today. 12 o'clock is the cutoff point. Take 15 minutes to go to lunch. Come back into your conocimiento groups until 12.40, have lunch, but dream together. And then we're going to come back into this space starting at 12.40 so we can begin our next conversation with all the satellite participants that are aligning in their respective cities right now. That's part of the reason why this is set up this way so that we will be able to engage with them through the screens. And you had a quick question? Okay, so can we have the group leaders stand up? Today's conocimiento groups are by years in the field. And so those of you who have...


From Las Vegas, it's theCUBE. Covering VMworld 2018. Brought to you by VMware and its ecosystem partners. Welcome back to theCUBE. We are live at VMworld 2018, day three of coverage. I'm Lisa Martin with John Troyer. John, we've had a phenomenal three days. Been great. Biggest, I think, two sets, biggest number of guests, lot of alumni, but also some new folks and I'd like to introduce you to a couple of our guests. We have David Boone, staff solutions architect from VMware, David. You're not only with VMware, but you have a very cool Twitter handle at David Boone 007. Pretty awesome. And Vijay Benga, technical fellow from FedEx Services. We're happy to be here. Well, I have to say, welcome back. You've been on theCUBE before. Yes, I've been on theCUBE before, yes.  That's impressive, that's very impressive. Lots of announcements, lots of momentum, lots of people here. We're hearing about 21,000 or so. Vijay, tell us before we get into what you're doing with VMware, tell us a little bit about your role as a technical fellow at FedEx. Okay, so I work in technical architecture and our role for the team is to evaluate new products. We look at all the stack in the data center, all the tools that we need to do. We bring them in, evaluate them, see if it meets our needs and then put them through operations and then most important, lifecycle it out. And so that's really what my role has been. See, you've worked with VMware, sorry, with FedEx for a long time now. So I think John and I were talking before, we want to talk about your IT transformation, but you've probably seen a tremendous amount of evolution, not just within FedEx, but within, you know, coming to events like this. Talk to us a little bit about and maybe some of your peers would want to learn. How do you take it all in? Yeah, so it's been an impressive base all this while and then I look back at that and then I look at just this week, the amount of transformation that's going on, the announcements that's happening and the pace at which we have to work and react to. It's just a solid mind-boggling pace. So, you know, we have to pace our energy just to keep up with it. So, very impressive. Well, David, can you talk a little bit about your role then at VMware and how you work with companies like FedEx and maybe what some of the current challenges and, you know, successes that you're having right now. Talking a lot about converged infrastructure here, we're talking a lot about, you know, multi-cloud, you know, what's going on with your role and how you help folks like FedEx. So, I work in our Solutions and Availability Business Unit at FedEx, at VMware, and... Seems like FedEx. With that work, so... Please, 007, he bought it himself. Yes, tight part of it. I do help our large enterprise customers and our strategic customers with going through the POC process and particularly with VSAN. And I've worked with VGA through the entire process of evaluating VSAN at FedEx and working through any issues that we encountered and making sure that it's going to meet their demands when we go into production. So, VGA, how's VSAN treating you? Oh, you know, this has been second iteration as software defined storage. So, David has been an immense help at taking us through this and the team behind him. That is what we don't see. So, I and my team worked very hard at this and, you know, I was telling you about the pace that we saw. If you just look at one topic, VSAN itself, you know, we are laying the foundation for all the products on top. Converged infrastructure, hyper-converged. And even with VSAN, we are covering lots of our use cases and there's several more that we need to cover. So, it's really pretty intense. So, let's talk about how you're working with David and team in VMware to meet your demands. You were talking about it, but also the customer demands. I think we're all customers of FedEx and we have this expectation now in 2018 that we can go to any location and get something shipped overnight all over the world. So, you've got a lot of demand coming from business users, consumers. How, what are some of the key demands on the business that your team is responsible for going, all right, let's figure out a way with partners like VMware to solve these problems. Yeah, so that's a very interesting question because the demand, it doesn't stop. You cover one use case and there's several more that come up and so we're trying to address all the needs. So, when we did the whole test, we made a great plan, worked with David and his team to make sure that we cover all the use cases and we did a whole test plan and we did an evaluation in-house of how they perform, what the requirements are. And so, the key is to make sure that we meet the business requirements. Speed to market is what we try and get to them. So, we try to do that up front, make sure that we cover the use cases. So, when we bring the product out, we've covered at least 80% of the use cases and then try to get to 90 and 100. It's impossible, but that's the goal, so. So, Vijay, David, you know, vSAN, good for a lot of things, actually. The use cases keep multiplying. I'm just kind of curious, you know, what were some of the drivers there and was it all CAPEX, OPEX, you know, what are you finding out now that are you in production and what have been some of the results that you've seen, in both ways? So, yeah, good for it. Yeah, so I can tell you from our perspective what we've seen is that, you know, we looked at, so today we want to try and get off our fabric that we have with our storage and we want to try and use our environment with the conversion infrastructure, white space issues. So, we covered 80% of our requirements up front with the use cases that we have. It's the last 20% that are more difficult. I'm not sure where the industry is with it, but that's what we are here to learn this week. Find out, talk to other customers, see how they're doing and their use cases and experiences and try and cover the width of it. And we definitely try to tie in with all aspects of FedEx running their IT department. So, you know, Vijay is one aspect from an architectural point of view, but then we also make sure that we expand that out into operationalizing on vSAN and making sure that the whole process is covered and that we're making sure that FedEx is successful with our product, not just, you know, worst thing we could do is try to sell them something that they'd have to put on the shelf. In terms of partnerships, sorry, John. I'm curious, David, how VMware and Vijay FedEx are collaborating because you were saying earlier you've covered about 80% of the use cases, but we know in any element of life you can't please all the people all the time. So, David, are you helping from a consulting perspective Vijay and team decide, okay, what's the priority order of use cases that we can solve now? Is that, talk to us about how that partnership evolves. Absolutely, so I think over time, Vijay and I have established a relationship of trust and that's really the most valuable thing that we have between us is that we are collaborative. We can talk under nondisclosure about warts and problems and issues and where things may not fit with the FedEx process, what we can do to overcome those or work around those and feed that back into product management and make sure that we're continuing to evolve our product to meet our enterprise customers' needs. So, FedEx is enabling or influencing product development in a good way for VMware, sounds. Yeah, we definitely have a strong draw from our users as to what is needed to be built into the product for the next generations. So, yeah, people like Vijay are keyed to us to ensuring our continued success. And, David made a good point because it's not just the use cases that we can support with vSAN, it's equally important to know what not to venture in now and then venture in as it gets a little bit more mature and we understand it. So, that's really key for us, yeah. Vijay, I'm kind of curious. So, you know, we talked, you've been there at FedEx long time, seen cultural change, how we do projects, how time to value, all that sort of stuff. We're here at VMworld 2018 here in Vegas. Lots of, really, I thought this was a really interesting year in terms of product announcements from VMware and others, a lot of multi-cloud, a lot of, again, accelerated time to value as a service sorts of things. People who you thought were software providers or actually service providers and vice versa, kind of really kind of cool stuff. What's exciting you as you're looking forward to kind of go to the next level in taking FedEx and their infrastructure along? Yeah, so what I see happening is our adoption to try and get to the cloud as well. I think the speed to market is so important and we don't want to be in the way we want to be able to enable and or assist to be able to provide the service. The business partner and their requirements drives it. So that's what we see. And I think the embracing of that, I think the adoption of it, I think we see a good win from our side. I'm also curious, speaking of embracing and adopting, one of the things that Pat Gelsinger talked about in his keynote Monday was the superpowers of AI, machine learning, IoT. How, DJ, is FedEx, where are you, I guess, on that maybe embracing adoption's journey with embracing and being able to leverage artificial intelligence, machine learning to be able to get to market faster? I can talk about the IoT first and then get to AI because what we've seen in terms of IoT is being driven not from the data centers but from our edge. The demand is coming out and that's what we see coming from the outside and typically we've done from the inside out, data centers to the field, but we see the drive happening a lot more intense on the field and the data collection and the IoT devices that is driving that in. So that was interesting to us to see. And about AI, you were talking about also AI? Yes, and so, you know, FedEx is so huge. I think there's a lot of development happening on multiple areas on the AI, so you know, it's just impressive and amazing what we're doing with it, so. It's great. So David, if you're working with a customer, you know, so VSAN stands up, you're working with VSAN, the rest of VMware portfolio.  What does VGA and his team need to start looking at, right? As the VMware portfolio expands, how do you help that VGA and the executive level really think about this? I don't think that it's a matter of what the portfolio brings to the table. It's really more about what does FedEx need from us? What can we do to help them? What gaps can we fill? How do we partner together to make sure that we continue this successful track? Nice, nice. What we see is what's important on the roadmap, cause you know, we said about the 20% use cases, data protection and other things that are important to us, which are still being developed and you know, we are okay to partner and work with them, test the products with them, so it helps us help them, you know, enable us to use the rest of the 20% cases. Very symbiotic, FedEx is a massive global customer, company and customer. I'm curious, Vijay, what recommendations would you give to your peers, whether they're at a company that's comparable in size to FedEx or maybe even some of the smaller companies that VMware works with? What are some of the, you know, helping them distill this massive challenge down into some digestible buys? What would you recommend? Yeah, so two things that come to mind. One is to make sure that you listen to your business partners. You know, it's about the business, make sure you're meeting their needs. And the second thing is, you know, we build on the foundation that we've laid. I think this is what hit me this morning. It's like all the VMware stack that is there, you know, there are several other products and we could certainly go down those paths in the rabbit holes, but you know, if you build on the foundations that we have, I think we see a lot of synergy. The operations, you know, makes it all simple. One way to do things.  And that's just part of it, right? Going down those rabbit holes. Yeah, it is. Try, feel fast, move on. Well guys, thanks so much. Yeah, feel fast. Yes. And failure is not a bad effort. No, I mean, in this, if we have failed at six months, yeah, that's great.  That's awesome. That's so approach. Well guys, thanks so much for stopping by and sharing what FedEx and VMware are doing together and your excitement and your ability to advise others is great. So thank you so much. Thank you, we appreciate it. Thank you. Thanks. For my co-host John Troyer, I'm Lisa Martin. You're watching theCUBE live from VMworld 2018. Stick around, we'll be back with our next guest shortly.


From around the globe, it's theCUBE with digital coverage of AWS re-invent 2020, sponsored by Intel, AWS, and our community partners. Hey, welcome back, everybody. Jeff Frick here with theCUBE. We are coming to you from our Palo Alto studio with our continuing coverage of AWS re-invent 2020, digital this year, like everything in 2020, but we're excited to welcome back to theCUBE. He's been on a number of times. He's Russ Curry, the vice president, enterprise strategy for Netscalf systems. Russ, great to see you. Great to see you, Jeff. Thank you. Absolutely. So before we jump into just so many things going on in 2020, what I do want to do is reflect back a little bit. You were first on theCUBE at AWS re-invent 2017. So it's been about three years. And I remember one of the lines you had said, I believe that was your guys first AWS show as well. So I wonder if you could reflect on kind of how the world has changed in terms of your business and the importance of AWS and public cloud within the infrastructure systems of your clients. Yeah, well, it was interesting, right? We were just getting our feet wet at that point and just introduced some of our technology for use in AWS. And it was kind of an interesting little adventure as we were looking at it and saying, okay, where's this going to lead us? And ultimately now we're just really waist-deep in it really having a great partnership with AWS and delivering new technologies, new capabilities. And our customer base also is becoming so much more reliant on public cloud, in particular AWS and the services that they can provide. So as we've gone and they've gone, it's been a journey that we've taken together and it's been quite fruitful and exciting. Right, right. And it really reinforces this concept of, I think you've mentioned it before, a blended, you know, kind of a blended infrastructure approach. So there's a lot of conversations about public cloud, hybrid cloud, multi-cloud, et cetera, et cetera. But at the end of the day, from a customer perspective, as you've mentioned, it's really kind of a blended network, right? And it's really application-centric and you put the applications where those applications need to be to be the most appropriate. And that might even change over time from test dev to early rollout to scale. So you're seeing that consistently, consistently. Absolutely. Yeah, the blended environment, and it's so incredibly complex for our customers as they take a look at the way that the world has changed, right? When we take a look at what has happened with people working remotely, working from home and having to come into access services and such a completely blended and hybrid environment, as you say, not only to move to the cloud, but the move to Colo and bringing all of this together for Interconnect. It's definitely a complex environment that they have to have their fingers on the pulse of, right? Yep, yep. And then, of course, there was this little thing that happened this year with COVID. And really, right, in March, April timeframe, light switch moment, everybody worked from home, whether you're ready or not. And that was a very different kind of situation because we had to get people secure and safe and get them up and operating. So I'm sure you saw a lot of interesting stuff at your business there, but I'm even more interested in how that's evolved over time. Here we are at the end of 2020. There's going to be some version of this for the foreseeable future. And a lot of companies are saying that there'll be a lot of work from anywhere, pieces that continue forward. So again, with your customers and looking at the change between what happened in the spring and now what's happening is they really put in the systems that'll enable them to continue to support people working from anywhere, not even really working from home but working from anywhere. Right, exactly. I mean, as our customers had to bring up more connectivity, new connectivity and start to add licenses for virtual desktop or for their VPN connectivity. Ultimately, they got it done. Most of our customers said, we're running hot but stable. And I think that that was great for most folks but now they're leaning into it and saying, okay, how do we continue to make this happen? And how do we provide the visibility that we need to ensure that the services that we're delivering are making it possible for their users to be productive and successful? A user doesn't want to feel that they're not contributing as much as someone else that may be able to make it into the office. And it's a challenging time but with that being said, technology has really stepped up and in particular, the way that they're able to stand up services in the cloud and the automation and potential cost savings that they get from standing up in the cloud has really been a boon for most of our users. And some of the users, high-end enterprise that were a little bit slow to adopt. Now we're just turning it on as fast as they possibly can. Yeah, it's pretty wild. And then we had another representative off from Netscad on earlier this year, one of the kind of recurring themes that we've seen is changes in the threat landscape. So clearly the increased attack surfaces as more and more people are working from home, they're not working from the secure environment at the office, but you guys noticed some interesting things about what's happening and we've seen a little bit too in terms of kind of ransomware and the increase in ransomware as a particular type of attack that seems to be growing in popularity. And these people are a little bit more thorough in the badness that they cause before they throw in the ransom request and that they're looking for a little bit more fundamental disruption to enable them to basically extract that ransom as which they hope to do.  And they're really coming in more towards the back office aspects of things. So going in and attacking that part of the business is kind of a new environment for a lot of folks. But one of the other interesting challenges here with this is that oftentimes those extortion notes don't make it through to the people that really need to act on them because they get caught in spam filters or the like. So they're fighting these DDoS attacks and don't necessarily understand that they're under an extortion attack. So it's a real challenge for folks and we've seen a good uptake with our on-prem capabilities to provide that kind of protection right at the top of the security stack with our Arbor Edge defense products. So it's been something that we're trying to get out there and help our customers as much as we can and even that new folks. Yeah, it's an interesting environment. And we found out from somebody too that sometimes if you actually pay the bad guys you can be breaking other rules for doing business with countries or people that we're not supposed to be doing business with. Like that's the last thing you need to think about when you're trying to get all your data and your company back online. Right, I mean you're trying to make sure that you're keeping yourself stood up, right? And it's tough and kind of the rule one is never pay the extortion, right? But you kind of got to take a look at it and say, hey, what do I do? Right, right. So you guys been around for a while. I wonder if we could dive in a little bit. We're at Reinvent. Some of the things you guys are doing specifically on the product side to basically increase your AWS capabilities. Sure, thanks, yeah. We've been working really closely with AWS as they start to roll out new technologies last year, we were fundamental in the VPC Ingress Routing announcement that they had. We've been working with them with their traffic mirroring capabilities. So technology-wise, we keep in close touch with them in terms of everything that they are delivering. But also on the business side of it, we have our networking competency and just last week got our migration competency. So what we're really doing is trying to both work the technical and the business relationship as much as we can to try and expand our overall capabilities of footprint with AWS and having that visibility and being able to kind of provide that same level of control and capability that you had on-prem in your enterprise network as you move into the public cloud is a great benefit to a lot of our customers. They really have the ability now to deliver services the way they have been delivering it for years and years. Now, what do you mean specifically when you say migration competency or networking competency? So they have these different competency programs for their technology partners. And the networking competency is that you've demonstrated capabilities in your ability to provide network monitoring or network management capabilities or network connectivity. In the application migration side, you've really provided the ability to show that you have the tools and solution set to drive and help people have successful migrations into AWS. As you can imagine right now, a lot of folks are just lifting and shifting putting stuff into AWS as quickly as they can to try and take advantage of the automation and the operational efficiencies that you get when you move into public cloud settings. And as you make those migrations, you want to ensure that you're not either leaving something behind that needed to move with it or building a dependency onto something that's in the background that's going to have an adverse effect on user experience. And ultimately it really all comes down to the user experience that you're delivering to your customers and or your user base, right? Right. So one of the things you talked about in a prior interview was kind of the shifting dynamic in terms of network traffic as there's more and more kind of SaaS based applications and there's more kind of an application centric and this kind of API interface between all the applications that the North-South is still significant but the growth in the East-West traffic, meaning kind of inside, if you will, and that some of the unique challenges that come from that from kind of a network monitoring. I wonder if you can share a little bit more color on that as to, and are you continuing to see this increase in East-West relative to North-South and what kind of special opportunities and challenges that presents? There's an absolute growth in terms of the East-West connectivity and traffic that exists out there. In particular, when we take a look at the way that people are implementing software defined networks, NSX, for example, NSXT has now provided the ability to blend your environment, whether you're going to any cloud, any vendor. As you move between these environments, having that ability to deliver network services under the same framework is really beneficial to our customer base. And we've also been partnering very closely with VMware and a lot of our customers are implementing VMware Cloud on AWS. So they have that ability to stand up services in a consistent manner, whether it be in their legacy environments or into the public cloud environments and have that same ability to provide visibility down into the East-West traffic. So that you can see that. So when you're a part of the NSX framework, what you're able to do is really leverage the service framework that they have, the service and search it and be part of the clusters and host groups that are exchanging traffic East-West. And our ability to see into that really exposes not exposes challenges, but exposes potential issues that our customers might be having in delivering high-quality services. So that visibility is really what we've been keying on. Right. I'm just curious to get your take, as people kind of, as you said, make this move to public cloud. And you talked about wholesale migrations and wholesale lifts and shifts. There's kind of a couple of trains of thought. One is using cloud for just pure economics and trying to save money and the flexibility. The second one is to add this automation as things grow and these great opportunities to automate and try to reduce air. But the third one, right, the big one is to drive innovation and to unlock innovation and enable better innovation and speed of delivery and moving at the speed of business, pick your favorite buzzword. I'm curious whether your customers, as you've seen them all jumping in, how much of it is still to save money or to kind of use the basic cost-saving economics versus people really embracing the opportunity to use this as a method to drive innovation and change within their own business? So I think the realities of 2020 have been forcing people to look at primarily from operational and cost efficiency perspectives. However, with an eye towards innovation and as they start to get themselves into a zone where they're comfortable, they look to see how they can leverage the cloud to provide new services and new ways in which they provide their services and avail themselves of the underlying technologies that are there to build something that's new and exciting in their overall portfolio. So I think that 2021 is probably going to be a little bit more of where can I innovate as opposed to how do I get there? It's probably an unfair question here in 2020 because priorities certainly got turned upside down in the middle of the year. So maybe innovation got pushed down a little bit from let's get people up, let's get people safe and let's make sure they can access all the systems and all this crazy stuff that we've got available to them from wherever they are, not just within the home office. I was listening to a panel from federal government a couple of weeks ago and it was really interesting the way that they've adopted kind of commercial capabilities to meet some of these challenges, things that they wouldn't normally look at, but now it's a set of innovation that they're looking at to try and make sure that they can avail themselves of the services that are out there and available in the public cloud. Yeah, well, that's great, Russ. Well, it's great to catch up. I'm sure you must be as amazed as anybody as the rapid acceleration of this. You know, since the short time you went to your first reinvent and clearly AWS and Amazon generally is an execution machine, so I think they'll keep doing it. So I think you're probably sitting in a good spot. I think so, thank you. All right, thank you, Russ, for stopping by and sharing your insight. Look forward to catching up next time. Thanks a lot, Jeff, really appreciate it. Alrighty, he's Russ, I'm Jeff. You're watching theCUBE's continuous coverage of AWS Reinvent 2020, the virtual event. Thanks for watching, we'll see you next time.