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From the age of ten I started playing for Stucco Boys and at Stucco Boys I was obviously one of the best players there and there was a scout there called Barry Vanell and my life changed from that moment really. But it was pretty quick for me. The touching had start and then it went on to the rape and that was continuous so I became numb to it.  Do you have a fear of your own life? Yeah. Because it was says that she had bought boys and then killed herself? Yeah. Do you believe there's a lot more to it? Yeah it's all connected and I said in 2016 I said there's a ring there's a pedophile ring in football and alone be old they all come out. Chelsea we used to go to the Norwich Cup, the Ipswich Cup, the Southampton Cup, the Celtic Cup.   Go on to be abusers, yes. Was that a concern in your mind? Yeah, yeah, yeah. Number one, and today's guest, Andy Woodworth, I admit. Nice. You good? Yeah, I'm all good. First and foremost thanks for coming on the show.  Was it Barry Benel? That's right. You see real people for you like that. Was it 20 years ago in prison? We got 36. 36 years? Yeah. That's a big sentence compared to some of the sentence isn't it? Yeah, but you stood the forefront and they seek to come forward and expose that. I think it was a documentary about it because it flood leads. Me, there's a film called Flood Lives. Yeah, that was further on. Obviously the last, well it's been in the last year that that came out. You've been through some darkness in your life. Yeah. I've had a lot of survivors on who's spoken out and it takes a massive amount of effort.  There'll be somebody there for people speaking out. It gives people strength, gives people hope. And that's why we're here today. But before we get into everything, I'd like to go back to the start for a guess where you grew up and how it all began. Yeah. You know, I grew up in Chile. And throughout my young childhood, it was, you know, I had the most mating parents, the most protective parents. Because we're going to the link later on, but as a young child, something significant happened to my mom's sister and a murder. So they were overprotective to the point where I couldn't even go out the front really without them watching over me. So throughout my childhood for me, young age, it was a delight really. No issues, no problems, mum and dad happily together. And then the age of 10, I'd always been mad about football. And then from the age of 10, I started playing for Stopple Boys. And at Stopple Boys, I was obviously one of the best players there. And there was a scout there called Barry Bernal. And my life changed from that moment, really. Because he says your career started from a looking years old? Yeah, that's right.  And he picked me out and was built their team. And when some of my parents have said that could have come down training at Man City at Plot Lane, and I started training that. And within a very short period of time, and this is what his, you know, method was that he'd pick out the more vulnerable of players. And he picked me and he said to my parents straight away, within weeks really, you know, can he come stay at my house? It will encourage his career. He's a good player, et cetera. And my mom and dad, you know, asked me and, you know, 10 year old, you're going to go, wow, if he's going to make me a footballer, then, yeah, I'll go stay there. So that's where the abuse started. How much does that play in your mom and dad's mind being over-protected of the men? Yes, something as extreme as that happened. Because I had a woman, amazing woman on Sarah Sands. Old man, 77, sitting outside the shop. She started a buddy, she's an amazing man. She gave up, he wanted to give her son a job, paper job, wished his confidence and work in a bad room.  Yeah, she killed him. Yeah, killed him.  Because in terms of that, from a very young age, it's a life sentence. You know, we'll go into it later. I've spoken to thousands, I don't mean thousands of people that in the last six and a half years, that have all had the dominating thing that they've said, is that this is a life sentence. It's how you cope and deal with that. Because the actual trauma never goes away. And that defined moment from a sexual touch to any kind of abuse like that from a young age, defines your life. And it's how you deal with that from that age. So that defining moment, the moment that he touched me at the age of just under 11, is a defining moment that maps out your life. And it's a life sentence. And that's the point where as soon as he touched me, I look back on it now from all the experience and the therapy and everything else. That moment decided my life path.  So you become numb to it. Like, I spoke to enough people now to understand how they then become groomed and think, some people actually think it's okay. Some girls have had all women, amazing women.  But then ended up, I wouldn't say it's like a relationship, but they feel bonded to that person. And they're made just mass manipulation, mass grooming, where they do anything for their abuser and that's the sad thing. See, after the first time, the first day, it made you get abused. What were you like the next day? Did you understand what was happening? Were you kind of numb to it? It's at that age. So I don't think it's... As a child, it is different because you don't understand, like, say, back then there was no sex education and nothing like that. And it's a case of when I think back to how I felt, I froze.    How does it then change everything in your life from young kid footballer just loving up, do anything to be a footballer to then? How does that then manually scan you, playing football to job?  Everything die will be just try to block everything.  When they've talked back the only thing that they could say to me was that I became more withdrawn and more quiet at home Did they question me? He was that engulfed within my mum and dad paying visits He'd turn up every now and again and say how well I was doing and in the film it shows he'd sit down and just say how amazing a player I was and how good I was so really he'd intertwined with my mum and dad as kind of a, not family man but a good friend as well so they didn't, it was only obviously I spoke to him since and they said obviously the guilt they couldn't see it back then because he'd groom them but they couldn't accept that until I broke the story until 2016 So this went on for four or five years? Yeah, yeah And the same team still staying over and stuff? Yeah, yeah, yeah I practically lived at his house I had time off school you know my education suffered and he used to ring up my mum and dad and say oh we've got this tournament or we've got this going on and we've got that going on and he said alright if he stays and my mum used to get on the phone are you okay inside me but his power that he was stood over me staring at me and that overrides overread that what he was doing to me that I'd always do the right thing because I was always a yes boy anyway Isn't it mad how they steal your power they steal your thinking they steal everything from you, your soul because the people who have had on who speak about it they've just got so much power over them and that's the sad thing because kids they're innocent they're so innocent man and that's the fucking heartbreaking thing like I'd do anything for my kids I'd be happy to do a life sentence to protect my kids no fucking would the blanket an eye like no it's easy done like but so seeing you're going through that then staying over does it just become a normal thing like what you think it's just normal or does it feel weird or does it feel strange I mean for the first and he used to do it he did it he did it with me he'd only choose a certain two or with me unfortunately after a short period there was two of us and the other boy stopped staying so I was on my own and because I was on my own I felt lost because at least with two of us it wasn't both of us all the time but then it was on my own and you kind of get numb to it because I was a piece of meat to him and at night time initially when it first started and he'd go in stages it wouldn't go to rape at the start but it was pretty quick with me the touching had start and then it went on to the rape and that was continuous so I became numb to it so at night time I knew what was going to happen and it was like a sacrifice to continue playing football because if I didn't then he'd get rid of me and he'd use tactics like I did say no once on Christmas day and we were playing a game and he dropped me and he said to me don't do that again and that power then was I'm not going to be a footballer if I'd say no who's that kid? the other kid was I can say it now because he's been public in fact I have to be a bit careful with that but the sea came out also yeah he did unbeknown to me in 97 when I did speak to the police because unfortunately he married my sister and my nephew and niece and my nephew was 8 and he'd been arrested in Jacksonville I had a choice of career or I knew it was going to break me but I chose the break but in 97 when I did speak to the police unbeknown to me this other player had spoke to the police and give evidence but I didn't know that until 2016 he came again and I do know who he is now sorry know that he'd done that in 97 because the story's mad as well it goes a lot deeper than just the connection with what is it, did he marry your sister? so how did that come about the man who's abusing you then marries your sister? so he had a method that he'd do and I know he also sexually assaulted other sisters before me and that was a screen for him smoke screen but unfortunately for me out of all these previous he used to say to me you're not like anyone else I've had and he used to say I love you and literally and it kind of came out that he meant it but he got older my sister at well 13, 14 and he got her to clean his house hoover his house and I'll pay you for it and that was again he was that embroiled within the family that he told me at Butlins with the rest of the team and he pulled me down a dark alley and he told me and he said me and his sister are more than friends if you say anything I will kill you and with everything else that he'd done to me I believe that he would so I didn't say anything to my parents because his power over me he was raping me then he said that he'd kill me if I said anything and he locked in so it was even worse for me because I knew that my sister who was the year 18 months older than me and I was only 13 12, 13 he'd got her sick bastard didn't he so it wasn't just young boys it was young girls as well did you ever have the conversation with your sister then are we just too scared to see anything me and Linda have really spoke in depth about it it's just last year when I brought the film out because when I broke the story she was still in too much pain and it was too much for her so I know until you came out my parents knew in 97 because when I broke the police and I broke down in my mum's house my sister obviously suspected because he'd been arrested but he'd still have that and the women will get this because the women that have been abused as a child and that control and power still stays there with them and she couldn't accept that he was and I had not said a word that he'd done it to me until I spoke to the police in 97 when I did that my sister broke down, she had a nervous breakdown and my mum and dad had a breakdown because two of their kids had been abused by him and they only found out then in 97 so your sister married them though how old was he when you were 14, 15 I was 13 when he told me he was then engaged in a relationship with her and he also this is his mastermind you see because normally he'd let go from the age of 14 to 16 he would let any because he preferred younger kids I was the only apprentice that he then took on because he knew he was with me and he knew he had my sister long term so I ended up being he ended up being my manager as an apprentice from 16 to 18 so I couldn't get rid of the motherfucker he stayed with me to make sure he still had that power over me because he wanted my sister as well as me I had a guy called Jeff Thompson I know Jeff one of the biggest killers on the planet that unbelievable man and he called it the parasite when his instructor abused him when he was 11 or 12 he talked about the hairy hands he just fueled his self with anger that he became a killer then he always visualized in his mind that he would kill this man and he's seen him he's an ape done by this time and when he's seen him he throws he fucking throws I went to see Bernal in prison in a film as well and you know something I was in the police then I'd been in the police for a few years felt empowered I was going for crew at the time and I went in there and I sat opposite him just like we are now and he came with his t-shirt on and bottoms and he sat opposite me and he said hi Andy and he smiled and I went back into child mode I felt 10 again instantly no it was more than we'll go into it but the reason I went is because in 2003 I was good friends with a guy called Peter Morrison and he played for Scunthorpe and he had his leg snapped cut a long story short he told his slister about what I'd been through and the slister ended up coming to see me and said crew were liable for this my head went I can get crew for what they'd done to me because they were implicit in this they'd seen everything that had happened and part of that, looking back now why did I have to go to a prison and go and see him when a lawyer could have done that but I was advised to go and see him to see if he'd give a statement for me why should I do that I had no responsibility but I did it because I was in my head it was I can expose this horrible secret and I went to see him because I asked him to do a statement he said he would and lo and behold he did a statement but on crew's behalf so seeing your 16, 17, 18 still playing under him was he still abusing you last time he abused me was 16 and it was in his lounge and my sister saved me really because she doesn't recall it but she came down and opened the door and as she opened the door he jumped up and I think he thought he'd been caught and he never touched me again he never touched me again sad Andy man sad that you had to go through that so he's not just raping you but he's also still having sex with your sister as well that's a fucking fucked up story connection like how much do you question life then how much do you question why me how much do you question what is it all about I will answer that but just going back to when the age of 11 my girlfriend then who actually took us to New Yorker the pair of them and said that we, us two boys were their sons so there was some I need to have sex with her and then come in to the bedroom where I was because I got demoted to the single bed while she was there and then do me then as well straight after having sex with her that's how twisted that man was seeing it both young kids were in the room as well was it raping both of these together not rape touching ya and both of these were there no they were in the double bed we have since as grown adults but not at the time because of the fear and the power that this man had over you how do you then question life then and how do you then try and kick on and still be a footballer because obviously once you got older you'd have realised wait a minute I was getting abused here but when did that sink in that what had happened was there a certain moment I think the defining moment was 1997 because prior to that his power was still over me and a number of players because he was obviously heavily involved in my family but he wanted a NAFRA David whilst he was in Jacksonville somebody came out in Jacksonville and he did a four year sentence over there he got convicted but the defining bit was when I give the statement and I've actually give it to the police because right away up to that he still had a power over me I felt still like a child and it was that defining moment really that I felt like although I traumatised myself and they ended up with panic attacks but speaking to the police about it was the voice but I'd said it it's fucking sick how brazen these cunts are as well how fucking dark and devious they are and the scary thing is there's so many of them get away with it do you think that's because people are too scared to come out and give a voice yeah I think when I broke the story I was just short of 200 people that came out for just been out and there's many many more but I always said I'll still stand by this there's no written rule some people the fear is too much and the consequence from that speaking is too much fear in themselves what the consequences to themselves because once you do speak out you're putting it out there rather than putting it in boxes and they locked it away and I get that but the unfortunate thing is the trauma sits in you and it it defines your life really how do you then trust any relationship male female like anybody that comes into your life then was everything totally broken did you still feel fragile looking for someone to love you yeah that's the key and many people will say that when you've been abused and you've been raped in all kinds of abuse you tend to have this um desire to for affection for somebody to love you and you can fall in love very easily very quickly I know that because of past and my relationships have all failed in the past because of you know putting yourself and going over over what you should balanced life because you over love somebody because you just want somebody to love you did you feel as if he loved you even though all the fucking dark shit he was doing to you and away and not hate say this but in their minds in many of them in pedophiles in their mens rea they believe they do yes I cannot like because it's a mindset that can't be changed in the amount of people who the sentences here in the UK are shocking like I've had so many people on now that there's people getting community service for rating kids community service getting let out to rape kids and then maybe getting six months in prison and the judicial system I can go into that into you know I was in the police for so many years but the justice so Barry Bernel gets 36 years and there's another 100 not that never will who gave statements that never will get justice and they feel I feel for them I'll campaign and fight for the rest of my life that was wrong that needs an inquiry later down the line but he got 36 years because every media every media around the world were watching what happened to this case so they were under quite a scrutiny really to put a big sentence on him but what about the cases that don't get in the media and like you say community service suspended sentences when was the last time you were 18 and 16 it stopped so how did what happened with your career then because you played for a few teams like could you enjoy your football or was there always something missing no it was always something missing and it tended to be before the game the team talks the manager shouting and encouraging but I could always see him and it used to flip around my head constantly but once I got over that line you're not able to think because you're in the game and it's all split seconds so once I got over that line I was alright but it was getting over that line and say they did a bit of corner or something then I'd get a thought in my mind so it was always a constant fight or battle like how were you in changing rooms and around other team members like were you constantly have your guard there or were you here always and unfortunately it's like for me I was at crew and I got a chance to leave at 21 the first team a few times I was on the bench but it was I could go on for hours about what actually happened at crew but I never did reveal that in the last six years but I got away and then I went to Barry and then I ended up two players there were at crew so it was like so there was Michael Jackson there and then there was a lad called Tony Rigby and I kind of went oh no and I'm going back to my past and it wasn't there for they didn't, well did they know that's another story but I went back there I was going back to crew again so it was hard in the dressing room as well because I knew what had happened and everybody in every dressing room in the country, oh crew oh yeah the bomb boys oh yeah Grady Benel everybody knew it was all ring fence, it never came out but it was within the industry it was all talked about and throughout my career I always have a towel on me always going the shower and it was like and I've always had that and that's part of the abuse why do you think there's so much cover up within football especially with Peter Feierings it's the biggest industry potentially FIFA can't you FIFA you hear a lot about corruption and the money and clubs that are owned FA big organisation, big institute PFA, big institute the word institute very powerful aren't they and what went on back then they didn't expect me to come that's for sure and what I've experienced since there's a lot to be said about it and I've got a lot to say about it and when an institute is under fire they'll do all means to to protect that see when we ever paid money to be quiet then nobody ever said just sweep it under the carpet like a lot of clubs do like a lot of people do I wouldn't say I was offered money to keep quiet but there was things going on within the institutes that were trying to keep me on board to keep it level a level playing field it's sad to think that what actually goes on and the depths that goes to it because we know personally it's too dark and this world can be see when you started who was the first person you spoke to in what respect everything that went on did you ever speak to anybody no my family obviously at 97 the only people that knew really was people that were very very close to me never spoke within I mean Neil Warnock and Stan Ternan had when I spoke in 97 they were aware of it but other than that it was that revelation in the Guardian with Danny Taylor so when you spoke about it in 97 what happened what happened I gave a statement they were jumping up and down the detectives because they got the golden nugget with me being with my sister I revealed to them and the police the two detectives ran to the car and took a statement there and then I gave 20% of what had happened I just revealed the biggest thing in my entire life looking back on it now or now they'd never be able to get away with that but they did and I give me a statement and it was like we'll be in touch I got a phone call the day of trial and all the phone call was he's pleading guilty goodbye and still to this day what he was sentenced for because he did a plea bargain I don't know to this day what happened however what also happened which is quite ironic is that a pedophile who was a football coach for a professional club there was only an article in the Crew Sentinel which was about 10 lines who knows why yeah so it's the same as Celtic Boys Club that mass pedophile ring there I'm a Celtic supporter of that but the thing with Glasgow it's Celtic Rangers it's like point scoring but the bottom line is innocent kids we're getting abused doesn't matter what fucking team it is like there's pedophiles everywhere but there seem to have been a lot in Celtic Boys Club they've all been a few of them have all been fucking sentenced and rightfully so but it's took so many years in my opinion if you're covering up for pedophiles you're just as bad as them you're just as implicit with it yeah I believe so and it's like Crew you know the fans have always said when I broke the story and after it's not the fans fault and it's not those that weren't implicit or knew about it it's not the staff's fault it's those in power and those that were implicit to it that are responsible for it and they are implicit with it and it's like Celtic Boys Club Michelle Grace she's fighting hard to get justice and it's took a long time it's took a lot of fighting up there in Scotland and I did say that in England it's hard enough in Scotland it's even tougher there's a tough world up there I spoke to Michelle that I'd rather not take her late that's right I spoke to Andrew before and I had two hours conversations with him and I was devastated what happened to Andrew because he was one of the first to come and he said to me he said but for you Andy I would never have I would never have spoke in Scotland never ever because up here it's like completely different world to you down there and unfortunately you lost his life but the legacy is left behind in Scotland it will always be there do you think that's one of the reasons why people don't speak out as well because they're scared of the backlash from people the kids have been abused but yet people hate on them that football team this is innocent fucking kids man protect your kids but of course if you're mourning about somebody exposing a football team for me it's just as fucking bad this is kids this is fucking kids as a father you should be doing everything to protect your kids the thing about Scotland is it's tit for tat it's just that fucking idiot's mourning about oh you're teamed on this you fucking cares exposing onces I spoke to Michelle I think she was going to come on the podcast but I don't know maybe a year or two years ago yeah and I think it was all over the news but God rest the boys soul do you think that's why people struggle because of backlash from rival fans and stuff absolutely and the trolling I had I had a message on Twitter about three weeks after I broke the story and I didn't know who it was at the time but I ended up finding him and I made sure the police weren't going to do anything about it and I went no this this could have I fainted on the floor you know they're posing to be Barry Bennell you know you want to suck on my lollipop I fucking hit the floor you know they actually had a twitter account with his picture on it Barry Bennell you know and they will but I think people the problem is fans are passionate about their football club they get that completely they live and you know they have tattoos and everything else but one thing I can say about fans take away the football club take away the fact it's football it's human beings and it is children and to take away that whichever football club it is whether it's Man City, Man United Celtic or Rangers take away the football it's children that are implicit or doing it to those children and if it was their child and how much it ruined their lives but also the parents lives is ruined and the ripple effect it has on them really think about that because that's what it is take out the football out of it it's a pedophile it was abusing a child oh you percent that's the way I see it but again a lot of football fans are derided those footballs all they've got being a football fan is all they've got their team is all they've got they're looking sky news to see who they're signing who's injured that is all they've got so if they think they're targeting their team then they'll stand by their team no matter if it's the wrong decision that's how f**king warped some people can be makes perfect sense to me but again that's the world we live in see when the story broke how were you feeling were you nervous or did you feel a sense of relief that it was awful yeah I mean you know I was in fear a lot of fear and it took an awful lot and I spoke to Neil Warner Constantine and I've said it numerous times I need to use but it was a case of I don't know there was something in my gut you know the one thing I've not gone with my gut is my bloody relationships but everything else I've always gone with my gut and I knew that it was the right thing to do in relationships do you become because of the pain and trauma you've got do you become hard work yeah I have been I'm not now but I have been yeah but it's understandable as well when you say you fall in love fast you just want somebody there to numb the pieces together where they'll always be broken because that's fucking trauma that's pain I was listening to someone on the train down here today and they were just saying you've got to a car crash you lost his wife his son his nephew and I think his mum and the car crash and the therapist says will they ever be happy again and he says would they do it to be happy or something and he says you've got to find a purpose absolutely and that's the sad thing because the pain is always there they always say time is a healer but it's not really time makes you adapt to the pain it makes you accept the pain because the pain there just doesn't seem as bad do you know what I mean you've had to find something to go out and fight for yeah and you know with me I'd said when I first broke the story I'd had 20 odd years of therapy I'd picked my toolbox because not all therapists are great some are better than others like life you know but I picked out I've got my toolbox together and you know the poor people that don't have that or haven't had that it's hard it's hard to move forward but I had that fighting me in 2016 and I really was ready to go but the last six years I've been destroyed why by institutes because when you're a whistleblower and you are a whistleblower in the biggest sport in the world it can have its consequences do you feel the relief yeah how deep does it go it goes very deep because it's like going into the last six years we're breaking the story and I'm all about truth and I proved that in 2016 when I told the truth and I was on Victoria Derby's show and I'm honest about it all and I was trending above Trump because people saw my truths and saw and the other players saw it's woody, it's Andy I've got to come forward because I've always been a soft soul off the pitch, on the pitch I was a bit different but I'm about truth and honesty and I also am about rights and wrongs and it was wrong what happened all those years but when you're taking on big institutes and it becomes a huge story and you're not implicit to their rules that they want to achieve and you say no you become a sitting target people potentially take your life because you're trying to expose people who've done wrong did you ever contemplate suicide in the last six years yeah because I was pushed that far when I broke the story there's numerous interviews that I did and I said I was 11 and it took me till I'm 43 to be strong enough and I was strong did all those interviews did it all around the world went to Brazil and saved kids lives out there and I was strong I can say now in 2023 the trauma I've been through in the last six and a half years is on par to the abuse I've suffered as a child do you think that's it coming to a head where it's been so long and they're making where you've spoke about it you've released it but you've still not wouldn't say healed from it because I don't know if you ever be healed if I'm honest but it just comes to the surface there's a kind of explosion with it when you think fucking hell it's a realisation what you've actually been through yeah these elements of that when I broke it and it went huge it was emotionally and it was tiring I was pleading with the police to help me and they did and it took them three or four weeks of hundreds of emails hundreds and hundreds coming at me which was draining but I was prepared it went big I was prepared of you know I'm on the I'm here for a reason I'm a warrior I'm strong enough I've got all these tools in the box to keep going and keep going and keep going but after that sort of initial crescendo it went up like that was a point where I stood up and I went no you're all wrong behind the scenes and I never said another word and I've kept quiet since then and I've never you know I've not done articles and not spoke to anyone I've kept myself to myself because I was ostracised and I was put out you know I broke the biggest story that's hit the world in football and I was pleading with them let me be involved because I'll be truth I am truth and they knew I was truth and when you're empowered and you become quite powerful I did become quite powerful because I was doing every I was doing from CNN to you name it they didn't want me to be in there because the story is well and it's such a fucked up story from the man who was abusing you then marries your sister but his uncle murdered your mum's sister yeah where's all that connection come from did you know this but did he not have a photo of the guy who killed your auntie and was it Freddy or something you know it's Ronald he used to call him he had a photo of him and he raped and killed your auntie that's some fucked up shit man that's like the Hollywood serial killer weird fucking satanic madness what is that connection with all that then no connection is it one of those things is it one of those things is a path in life we have and you know my my parents didn't know I had no idea until a police officer came to them after I'd given the statement to say that it was his cousin and I had a flashback to him taking me to a block of flats and seeing a picture I remember pictures he was in that picture and yeah it was 1971 and he raped and murdered my mum's sister and it was his cousin yeah so many years later in 1983 this was his 71 in 83 Bernel wouldn't have known initially but he found out because he was involved in the family then he found out that it was actually his cousin that murdered my mum's sister but then continued to rape me then continued with my sister who is named after my auntie knowing full well that his cousin had murdered my mum's sister and continued with the family to continue to rape both of us and then go on to marry my sister did he ever have any kids yeah he had two with my sister yeah have you got a relationship with them yeah yeah they've been protected how do you how do you become so guarded then because like I spoke earlier with Sarah Sands she let the old man take him and work with the man where the old bastard abused her son like how your parents been so protective with you how do you find balance because I know how I've spoke about this in podcast before I don't let my daughter have sleepovers and she hates me for it and I don't want to be that dad I always thought I'd be the fun friendly just having a laugh dad I'm so f**king protected because I've spoke to so many people and I know how dark and f**ked up this world as I had undercover pedophile on who went undercover for 20 years to catch the most f**king darkest people on this planet and the s**t that he was saying because a lot of these predators they don't start on the kids start on the parents f**king single parents they've gone up on Facebook work on the parents and moved on the kids for 2-3 years it's not an instant thing he said you get some predators who like to smell hair and walk around just to do what they feel around kids some people will work on the job for 2-3 years to get what they want at the end and then once they've got their fix they end up killing the kids or they end up taking their own life and that's the mindset of people nowadays it's f**ked up it's so f**ked up like how do you then find the balance with the kids that know what's went on it's difficult they know that there's well one's 30 now and one's 28 so they'll know everything then it's out there on the open how are their heads? my nephew's really struggled when I broke the story and it was hard for him because he didn't know he was only 8 what father is, what he is and he's got a look of him as well which is difficult for me it was, not now but going through the process that I've been through it was difficult and it's been difficult for him but you know what he's done is he's had some therapy and he's had some help and he's doing great now but he's had his own issues because of that this is if you can never get away from him it's not even a bad thing but he's there every story, every interview he's there do you feel as if you'll be loving that do you feel as if you'll still have that power or do you feel as if it doesn't have the same impact? doesn't it say I have the same impact on me now not even remotely but for him, yeah he he feels probably now, still now you know, still love Andy that's how their brains are that's not saying that a man who was raping you as a kid basically raping your sister marriage your sister, has two kids with your sister his cousin killed your mum's sister do you ever feel cursed in a certain way? I do now and we'll go into it this spiritual awakening in December 2020 and you know by the grace of the universe I was brought together with Kelly which I'll talk about but until then I spent my life like, you know, I wasn't religious and I'm not religious for say but I've spent my life asking and going why why me what have I done to deserve this what has my family done to deserve this why am I, you know am I cursed is my purpose in this life to just be abused, raped and also I ask the question about my relationships because unfortunately you know, I've got a lot to say I wrote my book and I put certain things in there about my previous relationships but the people in certain parts of the relationship but the women I was with not all of them but some of them were really abusive physically as well you know, I've got scars all over my face from being hit and I was like, well what am I just like a prodigy of, you know, satanic horrible evil people that are just doing this to me, why am I here so I did ask that question for many years yeah, like how do you think you accept paying an abuse a lot longer than you should because you think they'll heal you or help you or save you or do you feel it as if you needed saved I think no, I think from and other people will will be able to understand this that I've gone through so from a man to a woman to a gay relationship whatever relationship with that coercion control and narcissistic people that, because they the pedophiles are narcissistic they just go to an absolute other level but you once you're implicit with that and you've been in that abuse you tend to some people will say well, you can walk away or walk away from that because you put up with it you've put up with that abuse the physical, the sexual you put up with the mental abuse and it just becomes like well, I have to put up with this and you end up looking back on it after you step out and you get the courage to walk away because the threats are there to say to you if you walk away you're nobody I will destroy you I've had it from women I will destroy you and they've tried even up to recent years I will destroy you well destroy me then and they've tried to but once you walk away from it and then look back you see the relationship as it was and how bad it was but once you're in it it's hard to get out because you look at the Michael Jackson thing I love Michael Jackson I used to always think he hears stories he was chemically castrated with his dad because he wanted to keep his voice like a kid but then as more time goes on you start to realise you wanted kids to stay with you and when you speak to survivors you look at the same tactics of using that sort of power of I can get you a football team I can get you a music I can get you a music video but if you want a kid to stay with you you can say it's case like I love my kids I love them daily I would die for them I would kill for them no problem but they're fucking pains and asses I cut a few ears and I'm thinking you're fucking doing my head when it broke to your mum and dad the fucking guilt they must have had how did they get through that and how did they question it it was difficult I think from speaking to my mum now on what she said they kept it to themselves and there was a lot of tears in the bedroom and the guilt that they had was guilt ridden but the problem is with the grooming of parents it's like it's like the abuse that they suffered they kept to themselves as well so they're traumatised by it and they don't like talking about it and it became a hidden secret within the family and it's still pretty much like that now that nobody wants to talk out about it they don't want to talk about it we want to put it in a box and we all have different ways of dealing with things you see I'm on a I'm a speaker now I'll speak out but I understand that they want to keep it in so that guilt ridden and I've spoke to many parents that after I broke the story that have said I feel relieved that I don't have that guilt anymore because that guilt can it can define their lives as relationships as I don't know how my mum and dad stay together and there was a lot of growing up after the abuse there was a lot of arguments between them but with what I did it released their guilt do you have a blame name at any point how they've done it protect you yeah I've questioned it never spoke to her about it but yeah why couldn't you see it why didn't you protect me like you did when I was younger I had all those questions in my head but now after releasing everything and going over years and years and years that man was he he grew in parents as much as he did to the kids how do we protect kids then Andy with people working in schools and football teams and I have friends with Terry Terry Ellis and he's a leading polygraph expert in the UK but I know they say they can't use them but if it gives you a rough incline of how people's methods are like early sex like I tried to the kids simple question you get answers back in 15 minutes anybody that's going to work with kids I believe there should be a polygraph test there just to see let's see because I don't know if it's because of social media and a lot of people are speaking out but it seems to be getting fucking worse but how do we protect kids more what do you think should be in place well it's funny you should say that it's like you know so much that I've got in the last 6 and a half years and you couldn't do this in an hour you know what I could say about everything but there's one thing that I did you know even with the problem is with the institutes they want to do it their way or the highway and they're always right and multi-billion pounds organizations and institutes they they put it out there after I'd done everything and we've got this safeguard new safeguarding for the effect new safeguarding for this but I gave a holistic solution and I had a lot of key people around this country and I met with the FA the PFA and the Premier League and it wasn't just about kids it was about professional players and those that after the retire and the mental health and you know it was everything it was a holistic solution and me being the soft one I was that I've learned from handed it over to them and then a year later the mental health awareness came out with William and Harry mental health in football and I felt a kick in the teeth but what it did reiterate to me is that you know they will they will touch on it because it's a hot subject what is that implemented in grassroots football now I spoke to several people that go still the same Andy it's like the government will do this it's a minefield and it's so hard but more needs to be done it's a man's game people are like how is there nobody coming out as gay and British football I think a young kid last year maybe came out but it's fucking 2023 who fucking cares but do you think because there's so much pressure on the stigma of being a footballer and the abused people we get by coming out as gay if you can't come out as gay then what chances people are coming out and trying to expose people who's abused them as a kid it's such a hard sport like you with the Chinese whispers behind you and you're trying to expose people talking shit behind your back that makes people go back in their share why do you think football's got that though that not many people come out it's funny you should say that because it's like when you think about it when I did what I did and it became global news I've done every magazine in Europe I did Australia BBC, I've done Columbia Brazil everywhere, America it went as far as Dubai did Andy Gray and Richard Keyes and it was such the hot topic child abuse in football that he couldn't the lid had gone off so those in power couldn't put the lid on it so what their strategy was it was independent review which is not independent by the way and I will speak about that sometime in the future it's a simmer and then put a lid on it so what they use then is the mental health in men and football right okay this is the big taboo so all the players and all ex players all the pundits let's talk about mental health in football then child abuse became non-existent do you see any reports about child abuse in the news now in football or it's gone that's because it's a taboo subject in football like you said about the men sport that it is it will infiltrate off but it's still happening and the mental health situation is huge, it's massive in men and that is big but when you talk about child abuse it becomes a very nervous subject what made you join the corpus well it was after what had happened to me you know in football and I'd lost my career it was I needed a new career and my initial thought process was I wanted to help people because what I'd gone through it was I want to help I want to help others wasn't like that when I went in why? I saw a different world in the police in what sense? I saw a lot of egos I saw a lot of things that well we know at the moment there's a lot being ousted for wrongdoing and there was a lot of that and I even I did my first two years and I applied for the fire service because I wanted to get out because it wasn't what I thought and I'd gone to see Barry Bennell in prison and I got back to the police station and I was off duty I didn't think I'd done anything wrong I was fairly new in the police and I got frogmarched in an office and they put tapes on and they interviewed me and cautioned me and said why are you going to see a pedophile in prison? which I absolutely shat myself and I thought well I've been abused as a child so I give a taped interview and in that taped interview which will be there somewhere in the archives they said because of what's happened to you will protect you from those types of cases and everything else but I felt afterwards I felt like I'd been they knew about it and it was like I felt violated by them for doing what they'd done to me so I applied for the fire service but unfortunately my ex-wife was saying that it was a drop in pay and there's no way you're going to leave there but I didn't want to be in there I just didn't, I felt didn't like it How hard was it for you in your football career to keep an end? Devastating because I knew what had happened to me because I had panic disorder I tried so hard and I went to Sheffield United and Neil Warnett knew I wasn't right went just within a few months and then he offloaded to Halifax and slightly say about that curse it's like I went there and Paul Bracewell left after seven games they had a three-year contract and they went into administration it's only year that they got away with it and Halifax went out of the league and they ripped my contract up I had two years left on it and I just felt like like you say about that I just felt I was cursed, it was like I've got to get out Because football would have been your escape whether it kept your fitness your fitness is key and if you're training every day and you're playing at the weekend you're occupied, no doubt you're playing football you're still thinking about the count on the part you're still so occupied exactly, same before too split second because I'll have a good day and I'm feeling good but then I negative come in and say you shouldn't be happy today because I'll fester on it they say I've fought on the last about seven seconds but as human beings we learn how to stick on the negatives and it can control you for days mum, some people do years they can never break I've done that much research some of the latest therapy that I had you know, he sat there because I've had therapy since and everything broke the story he sat there and he laughed with me because he said, do you know something Andy? he said you can be my therapist because you know that much on it you know the thought process with thoughts a person like myself or anyone that suffered any kind of trauma they say like you could think 200,000 thoughts in a day and without you knowing it one thought within seconds you could have 50 and that can define your day like he said and it can literally throw you in a negative spin that can ruin your day that's why they say take one day at a time tomorrow's a new day because it can ruin your day your partner as well who you're married to then poisoned the eyes as well but I can't handle it but your fucking whole life is dark clouds mate it's sad like all this shit that you went through how did that relationship start? yeah with Kelly I've got a big revelation with that in due time but in terms of Kelly I met her in 2017 and I was getting married to Zelda at the time and she was in a relationship with somebody and she was doing, she was campaigning to help children same ethos as me we're on parallel paths really in terms of all our passion was in 2017 what she'd said to me is that she'd something had happened to her as a child a very young age but she couldn't recollect it and I'd said to her and I knew this that from the age of 4 to 8 abuse or from younger than that abuse it seems to be that you can't have you normally have like a reel of a video of the acts and what happens to you she couldn't recall but she knew something because it defined her life and she'd had a very similar life to me and we'd had parallel lives in terms of what had happened to us as children with me I knew what and something that happened to her so we had like a connection on so many levels she was doing something called positivity power movement and it was a positivity princess and it was all about helping children so we connected and we'd started doing things together and unfortunately there was somebody that I knew that tried to drag us apart and it wasn't that time that time wasn't right for us to build on it and then in December 2020 it was the 3rd of December and I'd had a really really awful relationship which was short which was my Range Rover got taken stolen and the property I was in everything got taken from it all my possessions and everything and I ended up coming back up to Manchester and she'd said that she she was spiritual before but she'd said that she'd had this spiritual awakening she said something got me to ring her because I knew something wasn't right with you I'd only spoke to her about 6 months previous and she came and picked me up and it was like she'd picked me up and it was meant to be and she had this spiritual awakening and she was spiritually connected and I wasn't I'd had things before but it was meant to be that we came together and she'd told me that she was fighting for justice she was a child and it was linked to people around her area and institutes and her father had committed suicide and she said she believed it wasn't and she showed me files that she'd been researching for years and she said she was in fear for her life because of what she was about to do and I supported her and helped her but she was also spiritual and she said I've got this spiritual gift and I've got this guiding and these things are happening and everything's happening right now and unfortunately there's a lot to say about what happened afterwards but they said that she committed suicide in her apartment and the whole world caved in caved in because everything's documented but she actually said to me if somebody takes my life will please Andy will you get justice for me That's fucking mental Andy did you feel as if that was kind of your life improving as well well I felt in those that short period I'd known her since 2017 we were just friends in that capacity I was getting married and she was happily with a relationship and you know I was happy at the time but yeah it was the happiest and I felt like it was meant to be and we're on the right path to getting justice both of us because it was says that she'd bought poison and killed herself do you believe there's a lot more to it yeah you'll talk about in future I do and you know I'm about truths and evidence and evidence is evidence and honesty is honesty and I've got the honesty box because I've got it locked away in a box did you get sectioned after that I did what was that like yeah and it's ironic you know three weeks after she'd gone and nobody knows who called all didn't call because there's nobody that's close to me family, friends, you name it nobody just three doctors and seven police officers came in stormed into my friends who witnessed it all and witnessed things beforehand and said we're section you it was like the matrix I was like okay I'm spiritually aware and there's things going on in there millions of other people around the world just because I've got a spiritual gift or awakening does that make me crazy no so when I went in there I told the doctor the following morning I said why am I here three minutes you've got psychosis I'm saying I'm prescribing you with a psychotic drug if you don't take it I'm going to inject you I went what so he threw me out and they'd locked me up I was in there for two weeks on the Monday I put me appealing and Slister said what is going on here I can't take everything because there's some things going on in the background to get justice did you ever fear for your life in there yeah because if you're trying to expose big things man one injection and they ask buying dead they had a bad turn but I was sane and switched on were you taking tablets or were they injecting you if anything they wanted liquid but I took tablets did you take them under your tongue oh I did didn't take one they thought I had what was it like being in the other round people just loosing that I've got a revelation to bear in mind do you know and I've got a witness as well that came in who's itching he's been waiting for two years to back me up not only was I sane in there happy to have him on both used together I've got a lot to say what and it's ironic as well and I believe in I believe in destiny and I believe in the universe and the universe is more powerful than any human being and it's just it dawned on me I've got another somebody else that was in a press switch mental hospital back in the day and they've ruined his life ruined him but it's funny how all the mental hospitals have been made accountable for how they treated people there was a BBC documentary about it about how the staff treated the patients I was in there sane and I watched it and I've got a few little recordings but I've also got numbers of people in there and I said don't worry when I get out one day I will speak truth what goes on but you know yourself and if they send you off as a loony send you on a loony but anything you say does you've got it and that was the whole purpose well I've had Barbara O'Haron she released a book called the hospital what happens is the evil doctor's predators Jimmy Savile's driving up all the usual fucking suspects what he used to do is get kids from broken homes parents addicts, homeless kids put them in a mental institute sign them off as crazy some of these kids were getting drugged, raped and killed they were talking about using mind control, what's it called past that I can't remember but mind control and what happens is some of the kids would run away they would run into the coppers the coppers would phone up because they were signed off as crazy the coppers would take them straight back and everybody thought Barbara Herr was a fantasist it fucking came out 20 odd years later she was telling the truth fucking evil doctors pedophile doctors guys cutting suits coming up picking the kids up taking them away, bringing them back life is crazy as soon as you're signed off as a nutcase he's having an episode he's losing his shit I think more people are awakened to if anybody gets canceled as well it's because they're telling the truth truth and honesty really N.K. Ultra so they were experimenting on kids for she was saying to be hit men mass shooters the experiment on a kid is to walk into the water your instincts is just trying to get out and swim, you just walk straight in and down and they'd couple of the bodies up many years later that she was telling the fucking truth I did actually when I was in there there was another young lad from Africa he had a similar experience to me he was saying but his dad was a top doctor in Africa and there was something going on with him and the U.K. and he was going to speak and because of that they just turned up at his flat and the police and threw him in and you know there is and there's one thing I would say is that there was poorly people in there that were but what I did see is that there was certain individuals in there that weren't as bad as what the medication that they were taking they literally were zombied and there was so much more that went on in there that made me cry at night what I used to listen to and I'm talking serious I'm talking abuse again oh yeah I physically watched it and more and this is if you've never got away from it I know that's when you make the ever go what the fuck I've interviewed some mad people mad stories and I find heart breaking but the level next to it and the madness how everything is connected father was suicide she's suicide you're anti-raped murdered you're raped, you're sister raped it's mad because all my dad's uncles were murdered back in Glasgow four or five all my uncles are murdered but is there a connection of coming back do you ever find that mad shit when you really do sit down like I have and you know I was a detective I'm clever and you know there's nothing wrong with my brain and I am clever I am on it and I have been on it I've been making timelines and doing everything in my apartment putting it all together and there's no coincidence in this connection everywhere but me being in the middle of that connection that everything links up and it's like a ring of steel and I've been in this like vortex of like it's like it's been everything's linked to me but there is a link to them if that makes sense it's all connected it's all connected and I said in 2016 I said there's a ring there's a pedophile ring in football and lo and behold they all come out Chelsea we used to go to the Norwich Cup the Ipswich Cup the Southampton Cup the Celtic Cup internet then but they had ways of communication and that's how they did it it's like now it's the ring of steel and it's like no coincidence and the other thing as well it's like going back to what you said when I was talking about being in that hospital at that time I was in there and I got out because I wanted to finish about that because I also spoke to all the institutes in there pleading with them to do something for me to get me out no beds Andy we're sorry on the Friday the Monday it was the appeal bosh out you go so they found me somewhere in London voluntary and then because of that as well I was actually told that I was going to give a statement about what happened to Kelly I've never given that statement I've never been asked but they wait two years and I get summons to the Coroner's Court two police officers turn up at my mum's I've got summons for Andrew Woodward to give evidence at the Coroner's Court for Kelly while she's death didn't even know and then I got thrown in the corner for over two hours being grilled and then the Daily Mail do a piece about it and I've got a lot to say about that because you don't do that to people what did they say well the report was I was questioned and it was said you know it was an odd relationship and there's things and quotes in there from certain individuals that are not the truth and I have the truth but I was never asked to tell the truth not in the not in the newspapers in the Coroner's Court I was never asked to tell the truth until I was in that box but do you mean a weird relationship said it was because she had a spiritual gift and the spiritual gifted people around the world there's people that get paid a lot of money with spiritual gifts said she was crazy she wasn't and saying I was crazy the most sane person and also when you say about discrediting somebody if I can pass every psychiatrist assessment after that within 3-4 months after that because I was doing a film with the BBC floodlights I passed every psychiatrist everything and ongoing through that and when on live TV no medication never took any I know the BBC gets a lot of stick and rightly so with some of the shit they've been involved in but fair play to them for doing that documentary and film fair play for doing that film, exposing stuff it is fair play credit where credit is true definitely but there is a big but there's more to reveal on them I've been inside it for 4 years and I've got a truth about that and all documented how I was treated and the BBC you just got to look at the statue that's outside that the fucking nuns who made the statue the sex case and the statue is still there but I just thought if they've done the film fair play that it's like the corpus is good and bad so in the BBC there will be good people and shitty people you've got it James because that's the initial feeling I felt to start with I could have gone Netflix I didn't want money I've never been about money this, this is all about principle it's about justice it's about rights, it's about getting it out there honesty I felt the same I thought fair play BBC Jimmy Savile everything else that had gone on all fair play the film is the film doesn't tell what I wanted to tell which is fair enough they only could air it for a certain amount and I went with the script but there's a lot goes on inside there and I know I know how dark is all these big productions how fucked up are they how connected is it why are all those teams that have been exposed all connected Jeremy Khan Madal McCann's father Doctor of Celtic Park is bigger than this and it is bigger than this it's you can go into the like you were talking before about Celtic, I'm not religious but there is a dark and light and the dark has been overpowering the light through generations it goes bigger it's a ring of steel it's all linked I'm not Freemasons there's so many out there that are like all institutes it's like the police the police got rid of me I've got a truth with that what they did to me to get rid of me that's a truth I broke the story oh let's discredit him oh Andy Woodward why did you leave the police well I've got the truth but I'm not I'm not going to speak out to defend myself but I've got the truths why do they do this you know they're all they're all linked there's a big link and it's very powerful and who am I Andy Woodward to take that on see because you were abusing the jibber question how you would have turned out as well because they talk about I had the undercover pedophile on as well and he because he was so involved and he says to his therapy because he was seeing it so much he was scared that it became one yes and he said and I respected that because I thought fucking fair play because he's seen the videos and the footage he's pretending to be one he thought he would become one himself see because all the shit that you've been through and there is a connection of people getting abused to then go on to abuse themselves was that a concern in your mind yeah yeah well what it is you know with me it was more for me number one the first thing that I really struggled with was a sexuality thing what am I am I that am I this you know at 18 a person I was with I had a child on the way and I look up there and that was to show like I was too young for that but I was like no I'm going to be a dad and I'm that way then the abuse come abuser is that you go through that process thought process is that it's a fear of it that those and I went completely the other way where I was like in fear of going near any children and my own child like and when you're with narcissists and I've been with them one of them actually said to me I don't trust you with my child but that was a narcissistic way of destroying me putting me further down and that was abusing itself but yeah I can understand people having that view but with me with my mindset I flipped it on its head and I was like douche no some people they say that some people do turn out to be abusers what percentage you don't know maybe in their minds that they go well I have to do what but there's some that go well I was abusing the child so that's why I am the way I am no that's an excuse with those see when you spoke out and exposed it all did any other footballers come forward and maybe not say anything but says I went through the same ones that haven't spoke to there's lots there's lots and there's also those it's like Matt LaTissier I will speak to him at some point but Matt stood up at the start he was the only pundit that actually put his face on the paper and said about Bob Eagings and said something not right and did massages and I don't know what how far it went with him but he stood up but it's like pundits as well it's like people in the media it's like you know I know of several I know somebody that's very high up within the England team any of them step up great you got a voice no I understand to protect what they're doing but sometimes it takes you know to take something on you have to have balls and you have to be a warrior yeah that's why I like Matt LaTissier that's why I wouldn't love for him because he speaks how he sees life he still gets the balls to stand at the forefront lost his job but he's still doing his thing that's what it's all about there's too many people caught up in their own little world and forget what life's all about it's like me it's like me you know work I've been fricking thrown that many places in life but it's having that you know truth is truth but we have free will everybody in life has free will we can choose what we want I prefer to choose balance honesty and I can sleep at night people in fear or people that are narcissistic and those are the ones that will sleep at night that don't care but then there's people that wish they could have that to speak out how was it when you spoke out and people turned their back how's that feeling can you understand it as well that there's a job with a wee scrutiny night as well it's fucking cowardly but can you see the other side of it as I said then you're ones that have got pure ego and greed and narcissist or will step over anyone to get money power greed you name it you've got that set and then you've got a set that are in fear because they would like to speak out or they would like to talk or they would like to join an army but they just in fear it's like it's the livelihoods it's family it's whatever reason and that doesn't stand because not all of us are prepared to step up on the parapet and just go do you know what it is what it is how many coaches have been exposed over the last few years now a lot I don't know the stats now but I know in the film I think there was 284 football clubs but they say one in every fair they get paid a fair of tendencies so that's one in every street and what's sad as well is the public don't know when I was in the police and the way the judicial system works with when they're out of prison you know I spoke to somebody the other day I speak to them all the time and you know they're in fear because that person that actually rates a girl that's now a woman is being put back a mile away from where she lives now and that ain't right but it's all the same as annonces they get put out in houses thanks to schools they do and I've been saying this the last few podcasts but in Russia buying life sentence I'll definitely Australia take their passports, take their driver licence you can't fucking leave, here you can change your name for less than 20 quid to abuse again exactly what he did he changed his name from Barry Bennell changed it what he did think of he changed his name to Richard Jones he's thinking Jones popular name Smith popular name isn't it Jones where do you go from here then Andy I know you've got so much more to talk about and want to expose but right now you can cause obviously so many legal reasons and obviously to protect yourself but where do you go forward for the future I think I do believe because of that spiritual awakening that I had I'm not going to ignore it because I look back at my life and I do believe that my path of life is set out for me in terms of helping others getting justice and revealing truths and I've got an army of people and it's funny I've been able to realise now the ones that one of your friends two of your enemies and three of those in between and I know each and every one of them and going forward I will it's took a lot I've had suicide thoughts over the last six years and they've flawed me they've destroyed me they've done everything they possibly can to me on a balanced balanced way now and back to balance and my future we don't know what the future is we can never say I'm going to be this but what I can say the difficult thing I've had James is that all those where they wanted they wanted a piece of me meat every single one of them I met a journalist a few months back a big one as well and I told him oh Andy this is a film in itself and there is filmmakers that do want to do it a film, another one for the last six years, big but he said oh Andy this is next day we can't Andy, it's too much it shows that the stuff that I have got and I have to be very careful what sort of stuff you're talking pedophiles yeah pedophiles and more and corruption but you expose that you know your good chance you'll be getting poisoned or you'll be gone missing but you've kind of been through everything else anyway in the last six years for the last fucking three or two years Andy it's like I wouldn't say you're stuck in hell but there's a big part of your life being in hell yeah but when have you ever been at your happiest if you ever were happy was there any moments yeah I'm getting there now but it's like you said you know I've been on my own very silent it's been very lonely as well because I ended up having massive amounts of people and I've got rid of them all but when will I be happy I'll be happy when I get justice one who those responsible for what they've done to me and they have personally and the public need to know because I've got six and a half years of it when I've got justice to those that directly have tried to destroy me and tried to get rid of me like they had done previously and those that have directly or indirectly done things to those that I love then I'll be at peace whether that's in this country or whether it's in another country I will get there what's the biggest life lesson you've learnt so far, Andy? trust I wrote a book position of trust it's funny 40% of it was taken out by legal reasons but people can write their own biography and put in what they want trust my book's called position of trust I'd like to write another position of trust betrayed for anybody watching that's been through you've been through as a young boy or young girl what advice would you have for them? my advice is those there is an army that have been abused that are still struggling but are fighting like warriors to get justice those that have it in them to do it because it's a huge thing because it can have an effect on your short term but the long term is worth it if they've got the speak because the police are under a lot of scrutiny at the moment at the moment for revealing these types of crimes to speak up but when they speak up they need to be empowered to push because they will try and brush it under the carpet and those that can't are coming in that category they're in fear of the family they're in fear of what might happen to the livelihoods and it's each free will each individual has free will and that free will is given to all people so who am I or to you or to anyone to say you should speak out for any parent that's watching that takes us on to football is there any telltale scenes that you were looking out for? yeah the main one it's like this is one of my bug bears with schools because they spend most of their time at school teachers see them you'll see a behavioural difference in a child no matter what age and it might be subtle but they should be trained to see that because it is there and there is a change it might be subtle but they will see a withdrawal behaviour change if it's instant then that's something isn't right see that's the hard thing about kids because they go through all their hormones all their changes, periods, puberty and you're probably just thinking it's just fucking teenagers but it's hard to think that you would miss something I can't imagine what your parents have went through again if your coach wants your fucking kid to stay over that's a telltale scene and also I always say to people if you've got instinct your stomach is your second brain we have our mind but we also have a second brain and they always say go with your gut if you have that gut feeling with somebody whether they're asking to stay over or whatever it is or someone isn't right normally your gut's right because that body looks like a fucking sex case and all eyes get the fucking eyes it's sad because it must be difficult because Jimmy Saville's got photos with everybody people probably thought people might have heard their stories but there will be innocent people who has got photos with them and thinking they can maybe enhance his career but there is a vibe you look at them and you think you shouldn't judge a book by its cover but you fucking judge their bastards but Jimmy Saville just looks like an out now fucking nonce man all the glitz in the glam and all the fucking fame and whatever because who was it that exposed them fucking Johnny Rotten done an interview, done a song and the kind that shut him off man and shut him down but how he was out with the royalties how he's cutting a book with the so called king and cutting about and Prince Andrew and Epstein I've got a lot of stuff on that stuff as well which is another story which again, it's that ring of steel that mile, they call it the square mile the square mile is in London there's a square mile in Washington it goes a square mile ring of steel so what's that, that paedophile ring all around the world you look at Epstein Island you look at, is that the Ellen DeGeneres show she's got, so Epstein Island's got a blue and white building, on her show she's got that blue, it's actually a building behind her and all this shit that's coming out with them I mean we could have another about stuff that I know about that and teams that I'm involved with that are underground looking and are in the process of revealing something big that becomes draining though on your life, because it's as if you can never get away from it but you're trying to do the right thing because the undercover paedophile guy come on and I questioned, how could you do that job part of me was thinking is it because it's her now and he can get away with seeing kids being abused and that's how I'm getting these facts but he says to me as soon as I've saved my first kid how can I walk away who else is going to do it, if you've saved that kid James, you know what's going on you just turn away and go I can't do this anymore help save hundreds of lives nothing to respect for the man there's a team I'm engaged with I'm helping, well going to help in the future and they're fantastic, they've got 100% success rate in convictions and they go out as teams and they're outing them, they're literally doing it and I applaud them because they're doing it ethically, they're linking with the police and they're doing it ethically and they're outing the paedophiles and I think it's brilliant what they're doing and it's like with me in football about truth I've got somebody in Ireland that has the power that they have Manchester City they had a scheme set up and they accepted liability and stuff but some football clubs are actually bigger than that it's like there was an article in the paper on the 31st of March about Manchester United and a player and he came out and he was talking about what went on within that football club in the dressing rooms with Ryan Giggs and David May and there's an article out there so I can talk about it because it's been published and I know someone another connection that I've got in Ireland that's been trying to fight that for a long time and he just gets the door just slammed in his face well why shouldn't the truth come out why are they hiding it Ryan Giggs is a proper fucking dirty bastard man, he was shagging his brother's wife while she was six months pregnant you got it I was in the same age group as him and all of them so I do know and I also know a lot more when I was growing up because we used to play against them all the time you know, Irish players coming over, staying in digs so why should they never featured, I never mentioned them but the guy I know in Ireland wow, he's been doing it for 20 odd years 20 odd years of it of evidence why does a high profile players get away with it then is football bigger than the law? seems like it something's going on look at this shit that Alex Ferguson had a lot of shit get exposed in my new but a lot of shit is self-swipped under the carpet with football players, like you say they're on a pedestal look at the young kid who's it green, what's he boy raped a girl, she had the fucking blood and she had the vids green wood, blatant, bank your rights but he'll be playing football against them these questions to be asked but you've still got to be allegations and allegations as well I've had more more Rami on there both together more was accused of child trafficking the girl just got 12 years for lying that guy destroyed that guy's life with the allegations because people shared the story all over facebook bang, he was guilty so the young girl there was a girl hitting herself with hammers they blamed the man, the man got 3 years as well and the video just came out that she was made it up so more he suddenly committed suicide because their dad's basically couldn't call the fucking none so allegations are allegations so you've still got to question everything just because there's a video it could be it could be but you still got to have an intuition I've got, I have your opinion but you've still got to question it innocent to proving guilty but there's a lot of people there who's not had a guilty that are fucking guilty so just be careful with everything in question everything in my eyes exactly and I'm all about that it's about balance and harmony you know and it's like with myself you know I got accused of something that I didn't do which I proved it didn't even go to court and it was never going to go to court because there was telephone it was everything it was nailed down and it wasn't but I've been accused of that so I know from both sides of the balance of it you know and but in terms of evidence, evidence is evidence and some people get off that but I've been on both sides so I do know and it, when you are you do have an allegation against you and there's some you know, Chad Evans for instance you know he's one that ended up going to prison but it's like I've been on that receiving end you know it was all over the internet about me they tried to ruin me you know on my Twitter you name it it was everywhere about it because there was somebody that had set up her sight who was trying to discredit me lo and behold I know what his relationship was with the police but he tried to do it so I know what that feels like did it take me to suicide I was like I might as well just call the day on this because I can't cope with this it's affecting my family it's affecting everyone around me and I'm innocent so I know what that's like to have it splashed all over everywhere I felt sick because I wanted to tell the truth yet I was being advised by my agent not agent he was helping me to go no don't say anything silence is bliss well I want to tell the truth and I've still not told the truth but the truth will come out when I'm ready can we talk about that or yeah yeah I mean you know I can talk about Gary Spee because the police knew about it because in 2013 after it was 2014 I did a magazine article I'm still in touch with the man who wants to do another one with me who did it it was in a magazine I think it was in the Daily Mail and they'd been to see me and they asked me the direct question and I was I was an undercover well not a police officer who wasn't being named and that was me and Gary unfortunately you know he he was with Benel at the time before me you know and I'm not I can't sit here and say 100% that Gary took his life because of that because there's various other factors with me as well when I was you know I've tried to kill myself numerous times I've even put a pipe in my car and it didn't bloody work well that's I'm here for a reason do you know that's how I look at it now I look at my path and I wasn't meant to go but Gary I can't say that but there has to be some factor in that because he was he did stay at Benel's house and they questioned it and I've googled it they questioned it and it's hard for the family like it has been for mine it's a difficult thing man to think what young tortured souls as young innocent kids just want to be footballers being manipulated and grown by a fucking out and out sex case man destroys life it's a life sentence he gets 36 years but he'll get out you're still tortured till the day you fucking die and all the reason he can really beat that is trying to get some closure is trying to expose more names and bring light and try and help more kids who for the voiceless man because people are scared and I can understand why people don't speak out I can understand there's people say there's people come on here and says look they know so many pedophiles involved in football and TV and people say oh fucking tell their names this and that it ain't as easy as just exposing names because first of all you're dead you've become a threat they just fucking kill you for like a minor ass now ass suicide shit like but it's difficult for people just to because they've got kids they've got other family people say oh man try and protect but it's not as easy as that because your kids become a target your job becomes a target your other cousins your everybody becomes a target one big story in the newspapers can destroy your whole life it can and that's the scary thing completely which say so spoke about plans for the future but round it all off then Andy for is that I think what are you saying about why you're here today yeah when you're talking about the future as well is because I although I've done the book and the film and that was purely for others that was purely for others and it and it always is I was I was silenced silenced and what was in the background doing all that to help others you know me going forward for my future yeah I want justice and I want your honesty to come out but it's like I've done all the interviews around the world and I did I did the public speaking in Brazil you know I did it at Palmeiras and Santos they're not small clubs and there was a lot well I was doing every interview with all the television programs and stuff but that's my that's my forte in future and I was going to do it a few years back but I mean quite a lot of them jumped on it and they've done it with the FA I didn't want to do that I wanted to do it independently and I'm an actual speaker and I and I want to encourage and do this moving forward and I will do it and I will speak in public I can do it from the thousands or ten people but if it helps another person then that's what I want to do moving forward but I've just not been ready for that because too much is happening like you said it's like a film the last six years but going forward I want to do that you know to see all these TED talks and them stand up there and talk about mental health and well-being and talk about the life and talk about my life and I'm still sat here and strong to stand up to these attitudes people whatever and speak a truth and say this can happen to me and I'm sat here now still wanting to say tell the truth and still standing up to them anybody can do it and that's what I want to do moving forward talk would you like to finish up on anything Andy? I don't think so I've got a lot more to say but I think the essence of what's happened to me I think I've touched on as you say touched on what I've got a lot more to say and I say that and regardless of any future podcast which I hope I can do but even if not then there's nothing going to stop me getting this out Fair play man Fair play for coming to the forefront and opening a fucking box just madness but gives people the strength to come forward as well and the torture soul and the life ruined is unbelievable and obviously it goes a lot more deeper we wouldn't say we're in the know but we know a lot of people who's been through it and spoke about it and it's sad man because we want the world to be all peaceful and beautiful and all love but the bottom line is the world doesn't like that and all we can do is try and I've never been through what you've been through so I can't really understand it but when you've spoke to people from who's speaking out of where I get the just of it but I can't imagine what your mind goes through I've seen a lot of dirt shit myself and done a lot of bad shit myself but to go through that as a kid I genuinely don't know what words I could ever put to try and make anybody feel at ease my job is only to try and give people a voice all that people can maybe get strength and try and do the right thing and get as many as he's fucking prayer that was off his street for me just finishing off it's like it's about empowerment Kelly used to have a saying and I stick by it nobody can do this on their own and there is light and dark in this world and the dark has overshadowed the light with their power, with their empowerment with their ideals, with whatever you want to call it but there comes a point in this world and through generations that there has to be the light has to shine through and shine bright but you can't do that until you've got light minded souls collaborating together to change the world and I do see around the world that people are starting to stand up and I do believe that the future is like it's going to go through some more dark but I do believe that the light will always shine in the future hopefully so Andy God bless you mate and I wish you all the best for the future alright cheers thank you