Hello everyone, good afternoon. We are live with Dr. Susan Sklar and I am so excited to be here with her. We've got a topic that you either have never heard of it or you're dying to know more because you know no one is talking about answers and that's burning mouth syndrome.  We're coming back with that before I do, I wanna do a little housekeeping. So you probably know by now we're live most Tuesdays and Fridays. You can catch all of the videos on our YouTube channel which is just under my name, Jill Carnahan. All free content, go there if you've missed anything. This will be there in about a few days, maybe a week live and you can watch that. You can share it with friends who maybe have the syndrome and especially on this topic, I really encourage you to share this, especially if you know someone who's suffering from burning mouth syndrome because as Dr. Sklar and I talked right before we came on, this is such a needed topic and there's not a lot of experts that are able to talk on it from a perspective of root cause and we will get into all of that. Also, if you want to look up other blogs and things, my website is jillcarnian.com and you can find all products and other things at drjilhealth.com. Okay, I wanna introduce Dr. Sklar and then we will let her jump right in. So Dr. Susan Sklar has been an active physician in Southern California for the past 35 years. She finished her training in OB-gyny or obstetrician and gynecologist specializing in women's health at the Beth Israel Hospital, a Harvard teaching affiliate in Boston, Massachusetts in 1981. Then she moved to Southern California but the climate's a little better there. Delivered baby in here for gynecological needs of her patients until 1989 when she limited her practice to gynecology and began a long career specializing in the care of midlife women. After many years of caring for women in the important areas of hormones and hormone imbalance, she saw a need and a lack of service in an important area of sexual function problems. She developed a specialty practice in the treatment of female sexual function problems. She did clinical research in this important subject and served as a reviewer for the Journal of Sexual Medicine. Such a needed topic because again, a lot of docs, especially middle-aged women not addressing this. And this kind of set you for the foundation of the next step, right? Because of the gain perspective in the field of restorative, also anti-aging and functional medicine, these are all interlined. Her clinic is actually, it's the Restorative Medicine Center, Sklar Center for Restorative Medicine and we will include her website as well. And recognizes this basically types of medicine, recognizes the biochemical changes and hormonal decline that causes humans to age in ways that are not necessary or inevitable. So there is hope for all of us. Replacement and balancing of these natural substances results in improved vitality and longer, healthy lifespan. I could not agree more and I am just absolutely so happy to have you here, Susan. I'd love to start by just hearing kind of how we, seeing the journey like as far as your credentials but how did your personal journey manifest to where you are now? Yeah, so it's really interesting. And I feel like kind of my life has been on a path and there have been various threads that have entered and it's just all culminated right now, right here. And like you said, I started out as an obstetrician gynecologist and had two children and realized that delivering babies and being gone two to three days at a time if I was on call was not compatible with being the kind of mother I wanted to be. And so at that point, I stopped delivering babies and my hours became more regular and I could get to my children's sports and games and participate in their lives more because at that point they were like pre-adolescents and I thought if I wait five years, they're gonna be in college. So either I do it now or I don't do it. And so by getting into doing only gynecology, I really was able to focus on midlife women and all of their health issues, cardiovascular, osteoporosis and eventually sexual health. I remember one day a woman said to me, I'm not having orgasms and I don't think I ever have. And I didn't know what to tell her. And I said to myself, this is never gonna happen again. I am gonna learn what I need to learn.   And so each step of the way, I learned more about hormones, more about neurology, anatomy, all the things that relate to our health. And at a certain point, and I was really almost close to retirement age, I was almost 60, I got completely burned out on the whole seeing 30 patients a day, and companies guiding my life. And I was like, I can't do this anymore. And so I was trying to figure out what else to do. And I don't know anything else to do besides medicine because I never wanted to do anything besides medicine. It's my passion, I love it.  So I kind of pivoted and we have a foster son and our foster son designs furniture and he was designing furniture for somebody, a woman who's doing anti-aging medicine. And he said, this woman is doing something with hormones. And I think maybe you might be interested and she became my mentor. And she told me about going to AFRM and getting credentialed and scenogenics back in the day, I got training there and got my start on anti-aging medicine. And at the same time, I was having my own health issue. So I was going through all menopause problems and had colitis and had osteoarthritis and had psoriasis and all these things. And I was not getting answers. And so it's like it all came together in for me personally and in a way I could translate to patients. And so functional medicine's a lot more than hormones. So I had to learn about GI health.  So back to biochemistry, right? Like you're like, oh, I actually need to know this. I know my first AFRM, I was like, oh, those steroid pathways, I really do need to look at them again, you're right. So that's exactly what happened. And so I've been practicing functional medicine and one of my early patients in the anti-aging was a woman who was a physical trainer. So she was very aware of her body composition and her muscle mass and definition, all of that. And she wrote a nice little like review of me that we posted on my website and it said with her hormone restoration, she said, my energy is so much better. My muscle definition is better. And my burning tongue is not nearly as bad. And I was like, what? What is that? And then other people, cause they thought of my website started getting in touch with me. And that's kind of how I got into burning mouth syndrome. And then we've been in the study group with Dr. Bredesen. And so learning about hormones and nerve function, I had to take, I was like, why would a hormone program make pain better? Why would being on estrogen, progesterone, DH, she had pregnant alone? What does that have to do with nerves and pain? And so I did a lot of reading in the, you know, neuropsychoendocrine immunology literature, reading things like brain research reviews and things about what progesterone does and what estrogen does. And of course it all really became important working with patients with cognitive decline because all of the same hormones and neuro steroids are in play. So I feel like, you know, all these different threads have really come together for me and so burning mouth syndrome is kind of the culmination of all of that as well as learning a lot more about pain and pain pathways. Cause I must say I had never really, I mean, we dealt with pelvic pain and gynecology which usually came down to either, you know, musculoskeletal pelvic floor endometriosis. We dealt with vulvodynia, which is another very puzzling pain disorder. But burning mouth I think is one of the most enigmatic for all practitioners. So I love your journey and love how it's woven together. And isn't it funny like the things that we don't necessarily expect in these twist and turns and like children and then okay, I'm gonna switch this way. And then we have this view. I wanna just say this for people listening because sometimes you're in the middle of a transition and most of us are right now for some reason or another because this year has been the last year, I should say has been quite different than any other. And so if you're in the middle and you're confused or feeling lost or not sure or wondering why this happened, just know that when you, your story isn't over yet, but the end, the last chapter has yet to be written. And I get excited about that because I look back and I'm like amazed at how breast cancer and Crohn's disease and mold illness and my move to Colorado, all these things were like, they were hard at the time. And now I'm like, they were the best gifts ever. I would never be the physician with the heart that I have today without those things. So I love your journey, Dr. Sklar. And the other thing I wanna mention is you hit on something. We have allopathic training, both you and I, very good schools and we're trained in the best in the world in those centers. And we lacked some very important knowledge. And I love, we have our foundation on this allopathic medicine. I have no apologies because it's the, you know, right now it's still the best medicine in the world. But what's happened is we've been able to expand our toolboxes. And what we both realized is when we came to tough questions in the clinic, we didn't have all the answers. And the difference between you and I and a physician who may not know this information, I think is that we ask the questions, well, I wonder what else or why, either what else is possible or why? And I'm no more intelligent or no better than anyone else, but I do ask why a lot and you do too. And I love that because you had this case and instead of just, you know, brushing it aside, you went deep and you got information. And today I know that information is going to touch a lot of lives because this is a big deal and people aren't always talking about it or aren't always able to find a physician who has experience. So let's dive in. Let's talk about first, what is burning mouth syndrome? This is actually a clinical diagnosis and how would that present? And then we'll dive into kind of some of the underlying causes. Great, yeah, that's a wonderful way to line it up. Well, there's something in the journal of oral facial pain that I quote a lot. It says practitioners dread seeing a patient with oral facial pain and mucosal cavity, meaning in the mouth. And why? And that's a fancy way of saying burning mouth syndrome, right? Burning mouth syndrome, that's right. Why do practitioners dread seeing patients with that? Cause they feel like they don't know what to do about it. You know, we as practitioners, our whole lives are involved with getting people better and when we can't get people better, it's hard to see them. I mean, we feel inadequate and plus we feel bad for the patient who's in pain. So what burning mouth syndrome is, it's a pain condition in the mouth, often starting in the tongue, but can also travel to the cheeks. I've had people tell me their gums up into their nasal passages, down into their trachea and her breathing tube that are involved with a burning pain. And the official definition is that it needs to be present for two hours a day for at least three months. That's one of the official definitions. In the absence of anything else that you could diagnose that might be causing that pain.  And the pain can be really intense. It destroys people's lives.  And so I would say really, I wanna talk about the psychological aspects of it first. And there are some definite physiologic connections between pain and depression. There are some root causes that bring those two together. But what happens with people who are in pain, anybody with chronic pain tends to get isolated. Eating is such a social thing to do. And, you know, we've seen with the pandemic what happens when we can't socialize at restaurants and over food.  Am I not gonna be able to eat? I don't wanna be with people and not be able to and people wonder what's happening. So people get isolated. A lot of people are made to feel like they're crazy because everything looks totally normal. I had one patient tell me, her doctor told her that she had a singular delusional disorder, meaning that she was focused on one thing and it was a delusion. Unbelievable. Really, so, you know, this gets the lack of knowledge of the medical profession gets put back on the patient as it's not me and my inadequacy or lack of knowledge in general, it's you, you're nuts. And 90% or more of the people that have burning mouth syndrome are perimenopausal and menopausal women. And, you know, we certainly, you know, we're all, at this point in history, very much wanting to address equality in medicine and healthcare delivery. Women get written off very easily. And so when a doctor, unfortunately, or dentist, any kind of practitioner is confronted with someone who's telling them having this pain, it's destroying their lives. There's no imaging, there's no lab tests. There's nothing diagnostic you can see in the person's mouth. It gets put back on the patient, they must be crazy. And there are articles in the literature of there was one article that said it was due to television moans, meaning women were watching too many soap operas and getting, you know, all involved in the drama of the soap opera and it was amplifying their pain. And so the whole issue of this is not psychogenic, this is not imagined. I can tell you the more that I'm reading and the more that I read about chronic pain in general, you know, it's really important to understand what's the difference between chronic pain and acute pain because we're good at handling acute pain.  Everything goes back to normal and your arm, you know, starts working again, great. Chronic pain doesn't do that. And it starts to set up its own pathways in the spinal cord in the brain and it perpetuates itself even when the original injury is no longer present. And the old wagon wheels of the West, when they go out and they be, I mean, there's places you can drive in Wyoming, Montana where there's wagon wheels still made these huge crevices in the rock and they're from a hundred years ago and the wheels created this pathway that's still there today. Exactly, exactly. And so what happens is these chronic pain pathways become well-worn pathways in the spinal cord in the brain. And certainly one of the things that is helpful for anyone with any kind of chronic pain is there are a number of ways to lay down new pathways. And there are a number of different techniques from journaling to meditation. And I won't go into that a lot, but you do wanna lay down new pathways. But one of the things that has been really important for me to learn and transmit to patients is that lack of dopamine is definitely involved in chronic pain. And lack of dopamine will give you depression and not wanting to initiate things as well as amplifying your pain pathways. And so it's not that, yes, burning mouth is very associated with stress, depression, and anxiety. Not that they cause it at the same underlying root cause it's causing both the pain and the emotional parts of it. So we need to address that. And there are various ways of doing it. There are some supplements that will help you make more dopamine. Things like ltyrosine and mucuna that can help with those pain pathways. The other thing is that pain, when you injure your thumb, there's a nerve that goes from your thumb and it goes to your spinal cord. It goes up to your brain. And when it gets to your brain, it doesn't just go to the place where your thumb is represented in your brain. It goes to the frontal part of your brain, which is your judgment thinking executive. It then goes to the limbic part of your brain, which is your fear and emotional center. Those are descending pathways. And then it goes up to the representation in your brain of where your thumb is to register that this is a pain. So the whole acknowledging pain and feeling pain intimately involves your thinking, judging process and your emotional process. And that's really important for people to understand.  I do mold illness, not the burning mouth center, but I've seen this. And what you just put together was, I've been talking about how mold causes this trauma loop. And you talked about to this limbic and this is the same pathway for pain. So it's very parallel what you're saying because it's not just that you get this exposure and you're like, I'm fine. I know I'll be okay. You might consciously know that. Same with the burning pain or the chronic pain. You might know, okay, someday this will go away or you might have a very logical way to deal with it. But what we're talking about here are the subconscious triggering of the limbic system and other parts of the brain that they're almost, it's not beyond our control. Cause some of the solutions are the meditation, the neuroplasticity loops that creating exactly. It feels like a lot of these things, unless you actually address it. And again, for my little world mold illness, you have to address the limbic system or you won't get well. It sounds like very similar to what you're saying with chronic pain or burning mouse syndrome specifically. You have to address those loops, those wagon wheels and the dirt or the rock, because if you don't, you're going to keep perpetuating that cycle. Right. And you know, I'm in Southern California.  So. I love that analogy. Cause that's what it is. And what you said was neuroplasticity. Cause we're talking about like creating new loops, right? So I love it. Exactly. Yeah. So you might be really used to going on the freeway and it's a little bit different doing the work around. It takes a little bit more thinking, but it'll get you. So you need to, you know, develop those alternative pathways. So that's really important. So when I saw that first review by somebody who said her burning mouth wasn't nearly as bad once she was on her hormone program, I was like, well, why would that happen? Yeah.  And so, and this was like 13 years ago when I first encountered it. And there was no book on it. And so I started looking in the scientific literature and thank goodness for the internet. Pubbed, which has, you know, almost all of the really important journals and articles that you can access. And I started finding answers in what's called the psychoneuroendocrine immunology literature. And it really exemplifies what pain is. It's neurological, it's immunological and it's endocrinological, meaning hormones. And so as I was reading, so I read about progesterone and I was like, why would progesterone, you know, what would it do? Progesterone helps calm nerves down. It helps improve nerve to nerve transmission. It decreases toxin effects on nerves. There was a study of using progesterone like on the battlefield for traumatic brain injuries. And unfortunately, and it was a well done study. It didn't show benefit. I'm not sure why, but we do have lots of other evidence that progesterone is brain protective.  We use DHEA, Dehydroepiandosterone. It's a neuro steroid, it's a steroid hormone made in the adrenal gland. It has tremendous anti-inflammatory properties and also incredible properties for neuropathic pain, which is this kind of chronic pain that takes on a life of its own. Now quick pause there because of course, like I use that frequently with perimenopausal, postmenopausal, but I'm using the lower doses and I'm wondering, you don't have to give specifics, but are you going higher because I've seen the studies with autoimmunity and inflammation where they go quite high with the DHEA? Go high with DHEA and high with pregnant alone. And really my limit is, you know, if it's high enough to cause side effects like acne or oily skin or hair growth where you don't want it. So I go pretty high with DHEA and pregnant alone is another steroid also made in the adrenal gland that has incredible effects for neuropathic pain. And I actually, when I was early on doing this, I tried to figure out what I could put in a supplement. So there was some literature about lipoic acid and neuropathic pain and lipoic acid. There's a lot in the literature about diabetic neuropathy. There's some in the literature about burning mouth syndrome and lipoic acid. We know that vitamin B12, methyl B12 is really important for proper nerve function. And I couldn't put estrogen in a supplement because you need prescription. I couldn't put testosterone in or thyroid or progesterone. I put the two things in that you didn't need a prescription for that you could get over the counter, DHEA and pregnant alone. And I put it in a supplement and I would say 30 to 50% of people that use it get relief, significant relief of their burning mouth syndrome. That's tremendous. I want to pause and I want to make sure that people can get access to that. So at the end we'll make sure that's tremendous, tremendous. What were your like per cap doses of DHEA to bring up? It had like 25 of DHEA and a hundred of prignine alone. Perfect. So, and I didn't, I honestly hadn't read anything about why it worked until I came across a website called Practical Pain Management that was started by a pain specialist, Dr. Forrest Tenant. And he was the pioneer about talking about hormones and pain. And his first article came out in 2013 and I didn't know about it. I only came up on his website in the last year and I've been in touch with him. He didn't know about burning mouth syndrome. He was really interested, but on his website and he has two websites, one for patients and one for professionals. So, his lots of references and everything. He talked about prignine alone and DHEA and it was like, oh my goodness, I've finally gotten validation from an outside source on what I'm doing because I knew it worked, but it's kind of nice not to be the only one. You know. Yeah. We all kind of like, oh, and sometimes I'm lecturing in my clinical experience, right? And you just frame it like, I see this in clinic and I know it works, but I don't have a large study. So it is so good when you, and what I found more and more is there are these great minds like you and you're parallel in this journey and you found, you basically serendipitous found this great solution, but how wonderful to be validated. That's all. Yeah, I did. I also had another validation. And again, it's like, thank goodness for the internet. It was a Fourth of July weekend, golly, 10 years ago. I was on reading about burning mouth syndrome and there was a study from France that mentioned the hormones and it ran a general way and a researcher named Dr. Alan Woda. And, you know, thank goodness for clickable links. He had a clickable link on his name and it went to an email. And I thought, I don't know, give it a try. So I sent him an email and I said, hi, I'm a doctor and you know, the United States and I've been using hormones for these burning mouth patients. And like, is there anything like, can you tell me anything about that? You know, I saw something about hormones in your research article. And like the next day he emailed me back and said, oh my goodness, I have known this theoretically but have not had the ability to actually prescribe the hormones and implement it. And, you know, yours is like the first kind of clinical evidence of actually having it work. And you know- Oh, that's tremendous. You probably made this day, week, month. I know what he made mine. We were in communication for quite a while.  Oh, how fortunate we are to have, you know, these resources.   And so we looked very carefully at thyroid and you know, Dr. Jill, because you're in functional medicine, we don't just use the regular lab ranges as what's optimal. We measure free T3, which is a thyroid hormone that is your active thyroid hormone, which the conventional medical system generally doesn't measure. I feel like it varies too much during the day or I don't know, there's some reason. I'm not exactly sure why. So they measure your thyroid stimulating hormone, which is a hormone made in the brain that governs the thyroid. And if that's abnormal, they'll measure something called your free T4 or thyroxin, which is not your active hormone. It's your precursor hormone that then has to buy a series of steps and with certain nutritional factors, iodine, zinc, selenium turn into T3. So we look at T3, we look at T4, we look at reverse T3 because under stressful circumstances, reverse T3 gets made. And it is an opposing chemical to free T3 and it will block the action of free T3.  So thyroid is an important part of it. Estrogen, I mentioned progesterone, DHEA, pregnant enolone, testosterone has protective effects on nerves and melatonin does. And there are lots of documentation about melatonin and chronic pain conditions. We also always look at vitamin D because vitamin D is called a vitamin, but in fact, it has a chemical structure of a steroid hormone. And so vitamin D is really important for healthy nerve function. And so those are the things that we replace depending on somebody's levels in what I call a full hormone restoration program. There are other things we look at because some of the other things, and I'll just mention some of the things that need to be ruled out, thrush or yeast in the mouth can cause burning. So that's if I can comment real quick because this is more of a gut mouth of my area. The one thing I knew for burning mouth, and again, you're going way beyond that. So this is fascinating was the whole yeast and creation of oxalates in that pathway because the oxalates can create something. So I knew so bad. And often in the organic acids in the urine, which is a test that us as functional doctors, we often do, you could see the oxalates and sometimes that would be associated with pain. But this is obviously way beyond that. So I understand how that yeast could be an issue. And so we look for that, you look for evidence of herpes or a post herpetic neuralgia, which is lingering pain that people can have after herpes or varicella, which is shingles in the face and head. We look at apthus ulcers, which are ulcers that occur. Bichette's disease, which is an autoimmune disease that can cause mouth ulcers. So you wanna rule out ulcerative diseases. There are some anti-hypertensives, particularly the ACE inhibitors, which whose names end in PRIL like Lysinopril that have been known to cause burning mouth syndrome. So people need to go on a journey to rule these other things out. And by the time people see me, they've seen four, six, eight practitioners. And at least they've seen dentists, oral surgeons. So I know that they don't have any of those issues going on in their mouths. And then the other things that we use. So I've learned a lot through treating patients and there's a wonderful pain specialist who we co-managed one of my patients. He's at Duke, Dr. Wolfgang Leakey. And I learned from him about using low dose naltrexone for chronic neuropathic pain. And so patients who have not gotten where we want them with their hormone restoration, we add low dose naltrexone. And do you want me to say a little bit about what that is? Yeah, definitely. Yeah, so sometimes people get freaked out because they go look it up on the internet and they read about naltrexone being used as an antidote for opioid overdose. And it is. And in high doses, it will block the opioid and opioids are things like coding and, you know, dilated, oxycodone, all of those things are opioid medications. And, you know, we know right now in the United States there is the tremendous amount of opioid abuse and overdosing. And so naltrexone blocks opioids in the brain. Opioids kill people by landing on the respiratory center in the brain and slowing it down so much that people stop breathing. And so if you can give them naltrexone, it will block that. That's in high doses, 50 milligrams. What was found is if you use naltrexone in very low doses, one and a half, three, four and a half milligrams, it actually has the opposite effect and it will stimulate our opioid receptors. We make our own pain relieving chemicals in our bodies, many of them, and our own opioids, what we call endogenous, meaning we make it ourselves, opioids help relieve pain. We make them ourselves all the time, but low dose naltrexone helps our body do that. So that is a thing that we add on. Yeah, there's a lot of research with autoimmunity and other pieces besides just pain. So it's a functional medicine we'll use. There was a few studies with Crohn's and colitis with ovarian cancer, with chronic pain, and I find it even in SIBO, it can be helpful because as an opioid blocker, it actually increases motility. So there's all kinds of little ways that we can use this. And it is different from the full dose naltrexone because it kind of ends up having the opposite effect. So you could ask your doctor, there is a LDN research website that actually does a pretty good job of bringing together the research. If you wanna know more, you can go there as well. Right, it's a great site. And part of the anti-inflammatory actions with low dose naltrexone also helps neuropathic pain. Because like I said, neuropathic pain is nerve, it's immunology, so that there's inflammation going on in those nerves and it's endocrine. And then some of the other things that we've worked on trying that have helped some people, oxytocin is a hormone that helps pain and helps anxiety. And so oxytocin can be helpful. Like I said, we're working on the dopamine pathways. And so far I've used supplements on the dopamine pathways, but I'm actually considering using some of the dopaminergic medications. And there are a number of them. Ropineral is one of them, things that are used for restless leg syndrome, which is thought to be due to a dopamine deficiency. And I was interesting. I spoke to a patient just a couple of days ago, a burning mouth patient who went on vacation and she forgot to bring her medications with her. And one of the things she was on was something for focus and attention deficit called vivants, which nobody knows exactly what the mode of action is. And so she couldn't get that. She was in Aruba and she couldn't get it. So they gave her the next substitute, which was Concerta. And she said, you know what, my pain was gone for almost the whole week I was in Aruba. It came back the last couple of days. And I was like, wow, why would that happen? I looked up Concerta and Concerta works on dopamine and also nor epinephrine or nor adrenaline pathways. And so I have not prescribed those. They're usually psychiatrists prescribe them, but I am gonna consider starting to use them as more potent ways of affecting the dopamine pathways. So I love this. And I just, because my mind always goes out here again, we're like thinking ahead and what could we do with this or whatever. At first of all, I love dopamine. I'm a dopamine girl. I have a motorcycle, I climb mountains. I like, I actually just make a lot naturally. But there's definitely a correlation with what you do testosterone will increase dopamine. So that might be part of the way that testosterone is working because testosterone and dopamine together. So that's something that we can safely do. And then I find actually doing things like we talked about the wagon wheels and the routes and the neuroplasticity. So doing things outside your normal routine like going a different way to work or getting a different drink at your coffee shop or choosing to do something different at night for your routine, all these different ways that are really simple going on a different walk or a different hike with your friends or your dogs or whatever. They actually create new neuroplasticity but the diversion and something different can also help dopamine. So there are ways that we can like do not just a pill or supplement which we're all for if they're safe and effective but there's other ways in our life that we can actually and sometimes doing those things that are a little bit like for me recently I climbed the third flatter and I was terrified. But after I was done that exhilaration that was probably all dopamine it lasted for a month maybe longer because I had like done something completely outside the norm terrifying but it actually was so doing those things that made me scare you a little that are safe and exciting and within reason because dopamine can cause impulsive behaviors too. So we don't want that side but I'm just encouraging you to get outside the box a little because that might be a way to help dopamine. We also know serotonin and dopamine are yin and yang just like testosterone and estrogen. So if you have way too much serotonin you're gonna actually dampen your dopamine. So we love serotonin, we need serotonin. I have no idea but I wonder if an SSRI could also lower dopamine too. So these are all things I'm just throwing out there don't have all the answers but the thoughts are these all play as a harmonious symphony and there are ways I think that we can support dopamine like you said to the fava bean which contains the muco purines and also tyrosine you mentioned. Right, right. So yeah, there's lots of crossover and one of the things you had asked me about was histamine and there is a Dr. Dr. Lawrence Affron who has a series he's published a couple of series on burning mouth syndrome as a mass cell over activation or mass cell activation disorder. And mass cells are immune cells and they release a number of different chemicals that can cause problems and mass cells release histamine which people are familiar with who have allergies and get itchy eyes and runny noses but histamine is also involved in the pain pathways along with other chemicals that are produced by mass cells. I have not been real successful in having people get relief with the use of antihistamines and he uses two different types he uses an antihistamine like loradidine which is you take for environmental allergies that hit the H1 histamine receptors and then he'll also use something like flamotidine which is pepsid which we think of for the H2 blocker which blocks stomach acid and so it gets at the two types of receptors. So I am trying to look at that some in patients who look like they might have mass cell activation who have flushing. I always ask about dermatographism which is if you scratch your arm I don't have it but if you are left with a pink line that pink line is a result of histamine release from in your skin from scratching it. So I'm trying to figure out who might have histamine problems where that might be a cause of their burning mouth. One of the issues with this or any neuropathic pain condition is what started it? What is when you talk about root cause really what is the root cause? And with burning mouth nobody has been able to figure out what it is and I'm looking at all the usual things I'm looking at mold I'm looking at Lyme I'm looking at viral infections and I think for different patients it might be different. Yeah, that makes sense. But what really led me to the hormone root is if 90% of the people that have it are perimenopausal and menopausal women and so many of it for women it started either I talked to somebody the other day it started with a hysterectomy she had and our ovaries removed a year and a half ago or it starts within a year of the last menstrual period. We know that estrogen has it has some effect on histamine may actually stimulate histamine but estrogen also has a lot of anti-inflammatory reactions and actions in the endocannabinoid system in our body. And so not only do we have our own opioid system inside we have our own cannabis system inside and our cannabis system is millions of years old. And so... Have you found a topical or tinctures of THC or... Some people have. Yes, some people have gotten relief with cannabis. So... And so estrogen some of estrogen's actions is through our endocannabinoid system. So there are many, many layers, you know of how things like how hormones have their effects on the neurotransmitters and on our endocannabinoid and our opioid systems. And I was reading about orexins. You know, orexins is a system of part of our hunger and satiety system and that's involved in our pain pathways. And so, orexins will actually activate those H1 and H2 receptors. And it's thought that acupuncture works via the orexins system partly. That makes sense, because that's a great therapy for pain because you're really treating a lot of that. I've seen that work when other things don't. Right, right. Let's see, I'm trying to fix that. Dr. Esquire, you have really gone the gamma. It's a perfect functional medicine case because it's really so many different pieces of the puzzle. And it sounds like there's a large percentage of hormones definitely is a huge piece of the puzzle, which is neat because you had this expertise background there already and this lends itself well to applying that and the fact that you basically came in contact with some experts in the field that, I mean, to me, this is groundbreaking, what you're doing. And I'm gonna try to help you get the word out because there's not many people talking about it. And it's so important for you to really be able to look at all those different parts. And like you, just continue to look for more options and more treatments and things out there. So that's tremendous. So if someone wants to get a hold of you or see you or get products, what's the best way to get in contact with you? Sure, so there's my website, which is www.sclarcenter.com and my office<PHONE_NUMBER>.  There's a link on our website and our supplement is also on our website. Perfect, this is so tremendous. What great information, like I said, I'm gonna find especially special interest groups and already we have comments of physicians and patients that are like, this is great information. Thank you so much. I know it's just gonna grow. As like you said, when I heard you, you reached out to me and said, hey, can we do an absolutely? Cause it's one of those conundrums that in many, many physicians, if not almost all of them don't know what to do with it. Like you said, did I have some answers? I just can't thank you enough for being that, in the ground doing the work, trying to figure it out and for bringing us your experience. So it's been about a decade that you've been seeing cases like this, right? It has, yeah, it's been quite a while.  And he's written a lot of the scientific papers. And so I just filled out the contact sheet on his website and said, hi, Dr. Epstein. I'm a down in the Long Beach and I'm treating burning mouth syndrome.  And he got in touch with me and he said, you have a whole other way of approaching it. And not only do I treat patients with burning mouth syndrome, I work at City of Hope, which is a big cancer center in Los Angeles. And patients post cancer therapy have a huge amount of problems with pain in their mouths and nobody addresses it. And he's like basically, you're it. Wow, I love it. I know I said I was so surprised that actually you took the time to get in touch with me. And he said, well, I don't run across very many people that are interested in burning mouth syndrome and, you know, have your kind of experience. You're kind of it. So, you know, he and I will collaborate some. Mendes, and that's interesting because 20 years ago to this year, I had breast cancer, three drug chemotherapy. And that chemotherapy has a really talkative effect in the mucosal lining. So I remember very well having, now mine was ulceration. It wasn't the burning mouth syndrome, but it was definitely pain, definitely pain all the way down. And I saw, I really, I just had that little flashback. I remember how that was and how you're right. And there's not a lot that being done for that. So thank you. Thank you for your information today. I know people are really going to enjoy this. I will share it wherever I can. And any last words of wisdom or parting advice for our listeners? Yes, keep searching. The people that have found me search the internet incessantly looking for an answer and don't accept that you're crazy or it's in your head. You know, know that there is something going on. You just have to find the answer. Just keep looking. Awesome advice from Dr. Sklar. Thank you so much for joining us today.


It's a breakfast and plus TV Africa we look at the emergence of the third force in Nigeria ahead of the 2023 National elections now the much talked about third force finally Would be do we have it here seven political parties joint forces ahead of the upcoming 2023? General elections all in a bid to put up a stronger fight against the all ruling progressive Congress the APC and a Frontline opposition people's Democratic Party the PDP now the parties in the collision are the new nagers people's party the NNP P the African Democratic Congress a DC the Social Democratic Party the SDP the allied people's movement the APM and the people's redemption party the PRP the Labor Party That's the LP and the National Rescue Movement the NRM Also looking at that you have at least five political parties Denying having agreement with the third force movement or any other group to present a joint presidential candidate in 2023 elections. We do have fine gentlemen joining the conversation this morning Dr. Katch or Nunu Jew a political scientist and analysts. Let's go to have you join us this morning Thank you for having me All right so with We also have Nika Goulet who's a public affairs analyst joining the conversation this morning Thank you. Thank you very much. I'm good morning to you in the studios. I'm good morning to our viewers All right, so let's start off with dr. Katch or Nunu Jew. Do you see a reputation of what happened in? 2015 happening in 2023 now that you have I mean, you know seemingly a thought force Well thought force is a speculative intention. It has not yet happened For me to take anyone seriously you need to show me capacity. So far the parties you're talking about Parties without any elected member. So until we see parties that won election From this kind of thought force That's it. I've looked at what's there. I've seen an NTP. I have also seen SDP Yes, this may have been hurriedly put together But would they have cohesion if they do have who are the members who are the arrowheads a lot of what you're seeing calling themselves Thought force from what I see are Disgruntled Where is allies who were disappointed if some of these people are the people who formed the coalition known as the APC and they have not seen How very very blind their strategies where we already took them there He let them down and now some of them by running off as saying is thought force Don't take them seriously place. I see many issues to go in the Two main parties as they are struggling right now for the soul of the country If anything is to be To be seen I would say decide the two main parties What you're calling thought force I don't think anybody so serious should take them seriously These are principally members of the APC who are not happy. So I expect a progression of that anger in the policy to actually escalate as sets intentions to undermine the primary process and as he did in choosing the chairman He will also impose a precision candidate. That is when I will not see reactions Which could not lead me to say we might have a government Of those who are not happy and if that's what you call thought force Uh We will see that but right now. I have not seen that force what I see At this ground to APC members Who are trying to organize themselves in different platforms? But then what makes it very difficult is a electoral act Because if we are also waiting for what I've just said to happen Which is those who lose out After who imposes a candidate on apc And you understand the electoral act currently says that if you run for elections And go through the primaries on party a in this case apc And then you leave apc You will not be available For the 20 to the 30 election on another party So the right thing to do is to leave the party now And don't go through with the imposition Which I believe they Document 18 on the apc nomination form forces them to do Please don't call this to call Call me the name two people who you will say are not These ground to members of the apc in what you are now talking about the government of these who are angry I don't want to take them seriously. Let's just forget them. Yeah. Nick. Nick Agouli You live and listen to catch it. No, Joe who says that they Have not this so-called third force. They haven't won. They don't have a single seat Anywhere a single elected position A group of these grunt of the apc members who are looking for the next best thing to A platform to win an election on and Whilst they may not Have A chance for the presidency Is it possible that they can start something And be a third force a force for pressure political force an alternative A rising sun of sorts In the Nigerian political space. We look at the NNPP where you had You have Rabi Musa Kwankwa. So basically taking over the party structure And now He is a strongman of counter politics has been joined by his brother from another strongman in counter politics Shekarao in the same NNPP. You have some known names and respected politicians in the stp. Can they make An impact to motor house more? Thank you for that question Certainly They can make an impact certainly they can make an impact But not at the national level So to that extent I agree with dr. Katch that This may be efforts a bit too late in the run-up In the run-up to the 2020 election But it is certainly a step in the right direction This is what we call democracy in a democracy the more choices the people have The better the deepening of democracy So if people Are guaranteed their freedom of association under our constitution Then I will say that these Politicians that have come together to form this third force aren't doing anything wrong They are doing what is legal. They are doing what is their democratic rights And they are free to go ahead and do this but In agreement with dr. Katch is that This third force will not be effective at the national level at this time of the day Our politicians need to understand that Running for an election Doesn't have to start at when it is months or weeks away from the election We have politicians that show up on the scene For elections and after the elections are over they disappear into the oblivion Only for them to show up again when it is close to the election My advice to politicians in Nigeria is that Be on the scene Right from the beginning So when in 2023 we inaugurate a new government be on the scene from yourself Into a shadow government if you want Criticize government policy be there for the people when the government is issuing pain to the people You should be issuing palliative to the people. You should be the alternative voice You should be there all the way through the four years So that the people will come to believe in you. They will come to see in you an alternative And then when it is time for elections, you can then cash in On that support base that you built over that four-year period So this is not a question of I form a coalition We run an election We don't win the election. We all go our ways. We want to do our things And then when it is time for campaigns, we come back onto the same. So that would be my advice But this talk has been formed It's going to If they keep themselves together and like catch said If they don't Self-destruct because that is one of the risks that these heavily package coalitions have Is a is a these are people who are strange bad fellows Coming together with the idea that they want to cease fire Now are they going to be cohesive? Are they going to agree? Are they going to? Religate their own personal interests For the interest of the people for the interest of the majority That is the question that needs to be answered But like a carno, you have a two strong men like rally said in the carno political scene Who are in this third force? So they could probably make a new road into carno and into some other areas and actually This is actually the basic building blocks Of forming a third force you have to start right from the local government to state assemblies to governors To national assembly members and build yourself up before you can actually think of having a chance at the presidency As he stands this talk force has no chance at the presidency But they could have a chance at the local elections Can they really have a chance? Let's also have I mean catch a no no judicial with us this morning With the fact that you have about five political parties denying any involvement or any association with any movement to form This force for the elections in 2023 Will there even be any chance of a third force with all of this happening? I mean you have the NNPP the PRP the ZLP among others saying We have no business with any third force. But first we need to look at national politics Nationally we have 774 local governments In those places you have 8400 plus national political National political words In that you have From 120,000 to 200,000 pulling boots So if you now have A party that will be able to harvest footcast As a pressure election. We need a party with all the 200,000 persons If now all the 200,000 become agents that means all the holy boots will have at least one member of that party It pulling boot across the several 77 small local governments But what you never have mushroom, you know briefcase issues That Kwan Kwan Suu is angry in Kano because he's finally been out playing you know Very very very Blind calculations and he got into a pitch in Kano. And that's why you've seen he's talking Kano So the best he can do is to use the NNPP to roll local Kano elections Like house of assembly house of rep or Senate but not national Secondly, he's not even agreeable to a lot of people across the country the kind of politics he did Remember the killing of the electoral officer in Kano while he was governor And that was part of the conspiracies they brought together to bring the PPP down the same if we see here And brought who had it to power is if you see he's running away from Who again we trust him after what he has done for his own party You know what the Kosa Nostra does in it and if they see a man that uses boss to come and join them They will never trust you. So those who undermine the pdp to bring you hurry And they rather run back to PDP and seeking ticket now If you want to know what to look to look at the pictures that came from London yesterday PtoB is being embraced by down the streets Same way he's been embraced by Washington. That is what is being on the political scene Not nice by angry old men. Those things don't make sense. It is the down the streets Mitted by PtoB. That for me is the most significant political development we've had in the past week And then you also have a correspondent embrace of him in Washington. That is what matters So leave all these people making up so far. He's been able to capture the imaginations Of the youth across the country and mature it. That's what I'm looking at If you're going to make an impact as I said earlier, you can only do that on the major political parties It may be very difficult to fight in there, but you're fighting there Anybody has done his eight years. Of course, everybody's expecting it to now go to the south. That is the actions Not when you're talking about people just coming together because they can find space in the major pool Of the PDP and the agency. That's where I expect this should go And fight because if you want to score any goal in any match, you must be inside the stadium You cannot win outside the stadium. So all these prefer parties Some of them don't even have a single counselor telling me they're coming together to form an alliance alliance of what? Show energy if it were parties that already have elected persons Not trying to form some kind of Corporation because the way the law is it's too late for them to register a brand new party Then I will know but then look at the men and their past Do they Look like people who can work with other people Something is not going to pass. So so leave those issues around. That's what you see those people Announcing that I know no no no no we have nothing to do with them. Let them keep trying I don't see a tech force. It was too late to happen today. All right. How are you going to do it? Okay? That's an interesting question. How are you going to do it? They are saying that of of the the parties in this coalition They are adopting a single line candidate or single line of candidates and they are adopting the The labor party as a frontline party which they will use for this purpose Um It was a lucia goma bass angel who if I remember first talked about or most famously talked about this third force in Nigerian politics Um, do you think and I come back over to you nika. Do you think that this is possible? ever Because from what you both are saying For the 2023 elections is pdp or apc. We're going for it Will we see any other party or any political force or group or coalition of stage these two parties? I mean in the near future the next election or two nick Yes, it is very possible But there's a lot of homework that needs to be done You can't just form a third force out of the blues it has to start from the local levels to the state levels to the national levels So it is it is it can be done another way that it can also be done Is to have a popular candidate Like dr. Katch is saying Peter will be has got support across the nation I support him myself because of what he has done in the past but I believe that he is in the wrong group because like I like I didn't predict on this program In the past, you know after the governor or tone zoning committee gave a press conference to say that they have decided on on the zoning formula I was called to this uh to this program to analyze and I did predict on this program that The the the zoning is going to be thrown open because Some party chief tells he did not like the articles the tambourines the sarakis Have already bought nomination forms and had them in their hands And so there's no way the pdp will say they should dump those forms and they were zoning the ticket to the south or anywhere And that has come to pass and what I'm predicting again on this program is that Don't see pdp handing the ticket to peter will be I really don't think pdp will hand the ticket to peter will be because As much as peter will be is popular with nigerians He may not be as popular with the delegates Which is known So coming to a third force we have to let you go first pick someone that peter will be a popular Nigerian Who is here as their presidential candidate? They could cause they could cause An upset thank you in my own mind. Thank you. Nika. Gullay. We have to let you go. Thank you so much for being part of the breakfast We appreciate your time. Nika. Gullay is a public affairs analyst We also have Dr. Katch Nunu drew who's also a political analyst and scientist joining us This morning on the breakfast looking at the possibility of having a third force Especially with the fact that you have political parties, but seven of them coming up together That's the Much that we can take on the breakfast this morning. Thank you so much fine gentlemen for being part of the breakfast Yeah If you missed out on any part of it, it's all right to follow us on facebook, twitter and instagram And do subscribe to our youtube channel at plus tv africa and plus tv africa lifestyle I am messiable. We'll have a fantastic day And i'm kofi butch else return tomorrow. Good morning


Starring Eve Orton, like many other single young women, our Miss Brooks, who teaches English at Madison High School, has often dreamed of having someone with whom to share a home as well as her joys and sorrows. Sometimes, though, the realization doesn't quite seem like the dream. How true that is. Although I now have someone with whom to share a home as well as my joys and sorrows, the person in my dream is built much differently than my landlady, Mrs. Davis.  Last Thursday at breakfast, I had reason to feel that I might become a permanent tenant. But before I could air my complaints, Mrs. Davis mentioned something that was on her mind. Wasn't that a terrible storm last night, Connie? I hardly slept a wink. Me, the Mrs. Davis, in fact, I was soaked to the skin. Oh, that's too bad, dear. Why didn't you carry an umbrella with you? I don't know. I'm eccentric, I guess. I haven't taken an umbrella to bed with me in years. With you? Your room is right under the leak in our roof, isn't it? Frankly, dear, I intended covering that roof with the rent money you owe me. Wouldn't the rain soak right through it? Oh, you mean you could get the roof repaired if I pay what I owe? Exactly.  Oh, but I haven't got that much, Mrs. Davis. Well, how much can you afford? Enough for a cheap sponge. Couldn't we discuss the rent after I've finished this oatmeal? Frankly, I'm in something of a mess again. Well, it's your own fault, dear. You should sit closer to the table when you eat. No, that's not what I had in mind. It's got to do with Mr. Conklin. Our beloved principal is seriously considering discontinuing football at Madison. Really? And since when have you been so vitally interested in football? Why, Mrs. Davis, how could I fail to be vitally interested in the sport that teaches young men sportsmanship, builds their competitive spirit, demonstrates the value of cooperative effort? Oh, of course. You go to the game every Saturday with Mr. Boynton. That covers it very neatly. Why is Mr. Conklin thinking of canceling football? Because of a few minor injuries that some finicky parents have complained about. It all came to a head last Saturday. In the game with Oakhurst, our quarterback was tripped and suffered a sprained ankle.   How did that happen? In the fight over the sprained ankle. Well, I'd better get ready to leave now. Mr. Boynton's picking me up this morning instead of Walter Denton. Oh, come on, Connie. Mr. Boynton's got a brand new used car to try out today. If he likes it, the dealer says he'll give him a goodbye on it. Well, that's an interesting development. If he does buy it, you may have a brand new chauffeur to drive you to school every day. Not so loud, Mrs. Davis. You'll put the whammy on it. Well, Miss Brooks, how do you like her? Fine, Mr. Boynton. That's a very nice car. Of course, it isn't the most flashy automobile in the world, but tell the truth. Have you ever heard a motor like this one? Not since I was a child. But I'm sure it'll be perfect transportation, and after all, that's what you need. Why, Mr. Boynton. What's the matter, Miss Brooks? Oh, one of the springs came through the upholstery right next to it. It was the shortest daydream I've ever had. I'll shove this spring back down. Springs came up under me. Press on my shoulders, will you, Miss Brooks? Oh, with pleasure. There you go, Mr. Boynton. How's that? Oh, fine. What do you think of Mr. Conklin's attitude toward football this season? Oh, I think it's deplorable, making all that fuss over a few slight bruises. According to Walter Denton, Mr. Conklin says if there's one more injury to a football player, he's canceling the sport for the remainder of the year. Just think what that would mean to the kids on the team, not to mention the student body. Not to mention the teachers. I don't know what I'd do with my Saturdays if there weren't any football games. Me either. Oh, Miss Brooks. Yes, Mr. Boynton? You can take your arms off my shoulders now. I'm down. Oh, that's where I left them. My lap felt so light. Like a hot potato. That is, he's finding a place to park. Oh, I'm waiting for my love boat, too. Walter Denton? Yes. He sailed into Daddy's office about 30 seconds ago. Then you should only have about 30 to wait until he comes sailing out. Oh, I think Daddy'll give him a break this morning. The storm raised half the roof off our house last night, and Daddy called Walter and had him bring over some of the kids in shop class to begin repairing it. But Harriet, wouldn't the authorities frown on your father drafting student labor to fix his personal property? Who'd tell on him? I withdraw the question. What's Walter doing in his office now? He's trying to talk Daddy into changing his mind about canceling football. As manager of the team, Walter's got a lot at stake. He's not the only one. I wish I knew how he was doing in there. That's my final decision, Denton. Now get out and sail! Walter, you tried your best. What did Mr. Conklin say before you parted company, Walter? It's not fit for ladies' ears. You mean the edict, Sam? Yes, of yesterday at 3 o'clock. If any player's injured on the football field, from that time forward, the sport is discontinued. Well, cheer up, Walter. Maybe there won't be any more injuries. That's right. Why look on the gloomy side of things? After all, wait a minute. Isn't that Madison's star fullback stretched not grass limping tortoise? Limping tortoise? Limping tortoise? Motion carried, he's limping tortoise. Say, he's badly hurt. He looks like he's in pain. Oh, just don't be ridiculous, Miss Brooks.  Hi, Stretch. What's the matter with you? Hi, Harriet. I think I tore a lingamon. A lingamon? That's right, Miss Brooks. It's either a lingamon or a tendonton. It isn't causing you too much pain. How did it happen? And when? This morning at early football practice. That does it. Tear down the grandstand. Well, just a minute.  Well, look at my ankle. Under the bandage, it's twice the size it usually is. I ought to go home and rest this foot if I'm going to play any more ball this month. But, Stretch, if Daddy hears about this, nobody will play any more ball any month. I don't understand. As your English teacher, Stretch, perhaps I can clarify Harriet's statement for you. What she meant was that if Mr. Conklin hears about your injury, nobody will play no more ball, no month, no home. It's to keep Stretch's snodgrass hidden all morning. And by noon, the board of strategy hit upon a plan that we hoped would keep our beloved principal from enforcing his ban on football, even if he did discover Stretch's injury. The plan started when I delivered his lunch tray to Mr. Conklin. When he saw me standing before him in his office, his reaction was immediate. Ah, say. If it'll put your mind at ease, I'll taste everything first. All I want. All you want is to apply a thin coating of oil to me before making some outlandish request or other. I've had this treatment from you too often in the past, Miss Brooks, not to recognize it when it starts. A bit, sir. I saw that lame-brained dentin' mooning around this morning, and I wouldn't be a bit surprised if he had prevailed upon you to ask me to reconsider my edict to banish football in the event of another injury. Wouldn't you be even a little surprised?  How can I help getting upset? Nobody understands my position. When a boy is injured playing football, who gets to blame? The opposing team? No. No. Do they blame the coach? No. No. They blame one person and one person only. You. And you know who that person is? You. I'll tell you who it is, Miss Brooks. You. It's me, that's who it is. Pounding your desk like that. Pie, I brought you. It's deep dish apple pie, Mr. Conklin. Go ahead, eat it right now. Don't tell me to stop pounding my desk. I'll pound it as much. With your stand in this matter. You mean you concur in my opinion that football should be abolished after the next accident? Even before. What do you care what some people say your real motives are? Well, I'm glad you agree that it's what some people say my real motives are. Who impugned my motives, Miss Brooks? Oh, please, sir. Surely a gentleman like yourself wouldn't take stock in any remarks that a rival principle like Jason Brill might make. Jason Brill? What did he say? Nice meeting, Mr. Conklin. It was something about your cancelling football, not because of injuries, but because you were afraid of the beating Madison would take from his clay city boys. So that's what he thinks. Is that all he said, Miss Brooks? Well, frankly, sir, I didn't want to stand around after he referred to you as a scared rabbit. Brill referred to me as a scared rabbit? Well, no, those weren't his exact words, Miss Conklin. But due to your high-strung temperament, I thought it best to substitute scared rabbit for a lily-livered lout. I'm afraid to write now that Madison High can field 11 battered substitutes and make his clay city oves look like Miss Brooks just when did you encounter Mr. Brill? When? Oh, we met last night on our way out of the movies. That's why the conversation was so fresh in my memory. Last night? Well, now I know you had an ulterior purpose in coming into my office. It just so happens, Miss Butinsky, that Jason Brill and I spent all of last evening at a special meeting called by the board. It was a great fight, Mom. I'll be home early. Can I talk to you for a minute before you go into your class? Certainly, Walter. Well, Conklin. Well, I wouldn't call it eminently satisfactory, Walter. Oh, what would you call it? A flop. He spent last night at the board meeting with Mr. Brill, so the story backfired. We're on borrowed time, Walter. Even if he doesn't find out about the injury today, he'll hear about it from Stretch's mother tomorrow. Yeah, it looks pretty hopeless. Oh, gosh, if only Stretch didn't get himself clobbered on the football field. Now, that's what Mr. Conklin's making such a big stink. Oh, wait a minute, Walter. You've just given me an idea. If Stretch had an accident, just a teeny one, mind you, say, in a car, Mr. Conklin couldn't blame it on football at all. Well, you mean we tell Stretch to keep his mouth shut, and then we take him home this afternoon, and on the way we fake a crash, and he limps out of it with a sprained ankle?  Thanks. Want to use my car? No, that might make Mr. Conklin suspicious. I'll get the keys to the car Mr. Boynton's trying out. That looks like it's been in an accident already. I often tell Mr. Boynton why we want it, as a teacher, his code of ethics wouldn't permit him to join in such a plot. Oh, what about you, your teacher? Yeah. I'll see you in the parking lot right after school. You're getting back, Stretch, old boy. Here, let me give you a hand. Thanks, Walter. Adjust a minute, Stretch. Roll your trouser leg down over that bandage.  Yeah, I'll do it. Ah, there we are.  Now, let's go, Miss Brooks.  Oh, well, there wasn't much time after our last class, Miss Brooks, so I just gave him a sort of a cursory briefing. I see. What did Walter tell you, Stretch? Well, it's like he says, Miss Brooks. He just cursed me briefly. It doesn't matter as long as we get you home without anybody to be continued. Hello, Mr. Conklin. Miss Brooks, are you about to drive somewhere? Drive? Yes, sir. I was about to give Walter and Stretch a ride home. But doesn't Walter drive his own car? Yes, but I let it to a friend. I mean, he let it to a friend. Well, there's any way. Well, they're just giving me a lift home, Mr. Conklin. I see. Why aren't you on the field practicing snout grass? You're Madison's best fullback, aren't you?  The coach thought he ought to let up for a few days. But besides, Stretch's father owns a pet shop, you know, and he needs his help very badly today. Oh, yes, sir. Now, he'll excuse us, Mr. Conklin. Not so fast, young woman. I was about to suggest that since my wife and daughter are using our car for some shopping today, I would like to ride along home with you. Oh, with us? Oh, but, Mr. Conklin, you'd be very uncomfortable jammed in here with us. Well, this is a six-passenger car, Miss Brooks, and I can only count three heads in it so far. Are you sure you've counted all of Stretch's?  What do you mean on top of each other?  But, sir. After you, Miss Brooks. There you are. Thank you, Mr. Conklin. Yes, it was, isn't it? Oh, dear, I'm supposed to turn here. Oh, don't worry, Miss Conklin. I'll make it next time. Because I'm not used to this car. Let's see now, I'd better pull over to the side and test the emergency brake. All ready and back? All set, Miss Brooks. What are you doing? Watch out for that hydrant, Miss Brooks. Right, Walter. Tell me, where did it get you, Stretch? It was your leg, wasn't it? Yeah, my leg. Yeah, well, try to walk on it. Let's see if it'll support you. What's going on here, everybody? Oh, I'm limping. Look at me. Yeah, look at him. I think I pulled a tendon. My right one. I can hardly walk on it. Oh, but this is absurd. You couldn't possibly have hurt your leg in such a slight collision. Oh, I couldn't, huh? Just a minute, Mr. Conklin. There. I'm sorry, I sprained his ankle in football practice this morning. And since my edict was issued yesterday afternoon, football is here by a ballist at Madison High School. But, Mr. Conklin, you don't know that he hurt his ankle in practice. It could have happened anywhere. Why, it even could have happened when Stretch fell off your roof while helping repair it this morning. What do you mean could have happened? That's exactly how Stretch did sprain his ankle. He did? What's this? What's this? What's this? It's a sound. It's a sound, isn't it, Walter? It's a sound, isn't it, Walter? It's a sound. It's like this, Your Honor. What the board doesn't know won't hurt them. What if they find out? And who may I ask would tell them? Mr. Conklin were to admit that he made a mistake with his football ban. We'd forget the whole thing, wouldn't we, Pellis? Walter, you're the editor of the Madison Monitor, right? Right. Oh, I can see the headline now. Star Fullback. And how about the subhead? Eyewitnesses claim youth was tripped by Prexy. Anybody can make a mistake. Perhaps I was a bit hasty. Football is hereby restored to Madison High School. Oh, it's hot dog. Miss Brooks, you've done it again. Oh, please, Stretch, I did it again. I've got to reciprocate. I'm going to get the shop class to repair the roof over your room tomorrow. Oh, that's very kind of you, Walter. But at lunch today, Mr. Boynton promised he'd work on it tonight. You see, it's worn down pretty thin, and it's quite shaky. Oh, you mean there's danger Mr. Boynton falling right through? Well, I can't be positive, but let's keep our fingers crossed. Later that night, much to my surprise, Mr. Boynton actually went to work on the roof. And as he repaired it, I sat up there with him and told him the entire story of how we had fooled Mr. Conklin that afternoon. Yes, that is quite a story, Miss Brooks. When all seemed lost, Walter thought up the idea that Stretch heard his ankle falling off Mr. Conklin's roof, huh? Right. And then I told him it's against the board rules to conscript student labor for a private enterprise off-school property.  Yes, it certainly explains everything. Well, don't feel too bad, Mr. Boynton. This has been one of the nicest evenings we've ever spent on Mr. Conklin's roof. Mr. Brooks, starring E. Barton, was produced and directed by Larry Byrne, written by Al Lewis and Arthur Allsberg with the music of Wilbur Hatt. Mr. Conklin was played by Gail Gorton. Others in tonight's cast were Jane Morgan, Dick Crenna, Bob Rockwell, Gloria McMillan, and Leonard Smith. The facilities of the United States Armed Forces Radio and Television Service.