Thank you very much, everyone, for coming this morning, despite the weather challenges. I'm Chris Johnson. I'm the Freeman Chair in China Studies here at CSIS, and we're very pleased this morning to have two of the most distinguished congressmen who work on the China problem with us today to have a discussion about the congressional viewpoint on U.S.-China relations, and obviously with a particular emphasis on what's been happening over the last week or so with the recent summit between presidents Xi and Obama. Let me introduce first Congressman Bustani, Charles Bustani, Dr. Charles Bustani, also Congressman Bustani, was first elected to Congress in December of 2004. He represents Louisiana's third congressional district, which covers southern Louisiana. He's a member of the House Ways and Means Committee and serves as chair of the subcommittee on oversight, and additionally he sits on the Ways and Means Subcommittees for Trade and Human Resources. Representative Bustani has been a member of the Bipartisan U.S.-China Working Group since 2005 and has served as its Republican co-chair since 2010. The working group educates members of Congress on U.S.-China issues through meetings and briefings with academic, business, and political leaders from the U.S. and China. And Congressman Richard Rick Larson also is a co-chair of the working group. He is serving his seventh term in the U.S. House of Representatives. He represents the second congressional district of Washington State, which includes portions of—you're going to have to help me on this one—Snowmish, okay, Skaggett and Watcom counties and Olive Island and San Juan counties. Representative Larson serves on the House Armed Services Committee and the House Transportation and Infrastructure Committee, and these committees enable him to focus on the local needs of Northwest Washington. So with that, I think what we're going to do today is just have a little bit of a conversation up here with me asking the congressman a few opening questions, and then we'll come out to the audience for a few questions later on. I think let's start with the Fishi and Obama Summit, and I'll start with you, Congressman Bustani, if that's all right. They finally had their shirt sleeves summit over the weekend, and I just welcome your assessment of the major takeaways from the meeting, and aside from allowing the two of them to kind of build this personal rapport, do you think that the meeting helped advance the discussion on critical issues in the bilateral relationship? Well, I do think it did, and I think, first of all, there were no mistakes on either side, which was a good thing, and so that allowed everything to flow very smoothly. That's the first point I would make, because there have been missteps in previous first encounters between leaders of the two countries. It was designed to be low-key shirt sleeves, which I think was appropriate, given how quickly it was put together, coming on the heels of the new Chinese leadership just taking seat and getting started. I think it was an opportunity to not set very, very high expectations, but to sort of allow the two leaders to become acquainted, put some things on the table that will be open for discussion going forward. One thing that I think we need to, we both have questions about here in the U.S. and I think in China as well, is what will the U.S.-China dialogue look like going forward? There seems to be discussion, certainly on our side, we're having discussions about the utility of the SNED and what should it, what could be done to improve it, to update it, to invigorate it, and I think on the Chinese side, there are similar questions. Right, right. Well, yeah, thanks, Chris. I think, could you imagine if this is an actual traditional summit? First off, it wouldn't have happened this June. They probably wouldn't have gone around it until next June. Good point. First off. Second, the number of people, and both governments would have to shut down in order to staff this thing, a traditional summit, and the long list of what folks call deliverables would be just one more long list of deliverables. So I think the format for this first meeting was very helpful. The only quote-unquote deliverable was the picture of the two of them walking without ties and shirts. That was the image, I think probably both President Obama and President Xi wanted to deliver, that this had more of a feeling of, hey, I'm home for the weekend, let's get together and talk. Because this relationship has to, if we're going to be successful, I'm moving forward on military and military relations, on climate change, on helping China implement its own internal reforms. These two leaders have to have a relationship that doesn't start across a table with a bunch of staff sitting next to them. The issues are way too big for that, and it needed to start at a more personal level so that you can get to these other issues. Great. President Xi reportedly spent some time on the first day kind of describing for President Obama the domestic context in China, and in particular some of the economic reforms that they're considering trying to adopt at the third plenum this fall. And of course President Obama reportedly did the same thing, kind of explaining the domestic economic primarily context here in the United States. I know that the whole issue of reform in China and the way forward was a focus of your guys' trip when you went in January. Where do you think they're going to come out on this fall? And are you encouraged or very optimistic or not? My personal view is I'm relatively optimistic. I have some caveats. We've done a report from that trip in January. I know you have it here at CSIS. I know it's driving all the conversation you have at CSIS. But I think that three main points about reform in China. One is governance reform and how successful President Xi and Premier Li are in implementing what they see as necessary to root out corruption in the Communist Party. Wang Qishan, who we met with, we met with him in his old capacity because it was not yet March, it was still January. And so he really couldn't talk too much about his new job, but he did actually end up talking quite a bit about his new job as it turns out. And invited us back when we go back to meet him in his new capacity as well and get an update on things. But I think that governance reform is an important goal that they have to meet. If the Chinese Communist Party is not credible to the people, that is going to be a problem for the Chinese Communist Party, not for the people. Second, economic reforms. We met with Li Wei who helped write the World Bank report. And he seemed very clear, and it sure seems clear from President Xi's comments that they're going to move forward on economic reforms, taking on SOEs, doing some things on interest rate reform, a variety of other things. And then finally the environment, the report talks about the environment and the obligatory pictures of smog are in our report in Beijing. But I want to hand to the State Department on this, because it was about a year and a half ago when the Chinese government was constantly complaining that the embassy was publishing the air index in Beijing. The real number. The real number. So we're having lunch with General Jing, who's a former PLA Navy admiral. And now he's with the National People's Congress Foreign Affairs Defense Committee. During lunch we're talking about the environment. He takes out his smartphone and punches up, and he has the U.S. Embassy app on his own smartphone. And he goes, oh yeah, it's 475 today. So clearly headway has been made with the Chinese government and getting to recognize that this environmental issue is a problem and it's a public problem. Yeah, I agree. Well, Rick outlined the broad areas. And on economic reform, I'm sure everybody here is aware of the type of shift that China is trying to make to a more consumption-driven economy moving away from purely an export-driven economy. And there are going to be serious challenges in trying to do that, which means that China has to open up on a broad range of services for this growing middle class and meet the expectations of a growing middle class, as well as address the issues of wage disparity in their economy, as well as rigidity in the labor market because of the Hukou system. So I think there are a number of issues that they're going to be faced with. And also I think the issues with political reform, as you mentioned, Rick, especially the corruption issue, is really important. We were very interested in furthering dialogue with Wang Qishan as he takes on this portfolio and we'll see how those things develop. One of the things that we found in our dealings with Beijing is that a lot of times there will be laws changed, but then the follow-through and the implementation is always a challenge. And so as the U.S.-China working group, we will continue to probe and ask these questions as we interact with Chinese leaders and others in China to gauge on how pervasive the reforms, what's the timing of these reforms, how pervasive are they, and so forth. So many challenges, but we look forward to continuing those dialogues. Great. Let's talk about another sort of sensitive issue in the bilateral relationship and that's Chinese investment in the United States and some of the controversies that have happened there. The Chinese clearly feel like their companies are being sort of held to a different standard or an unreasonable standard, perhaps of scrutiny, as witnessed with some of the controversy we saw with the proposed deal to acquire Smithfield by a Chinese company. But at the same time, it seems that there is sort of a much more welcoming attitude from governors in the U.S. states. They're often going on these trade delegations to China and very welcoming of investment. How do you view this issue from your seat in Congress, first of all, and then how do your constituents back at home feel about that idea? Important question. First of all, let me point out that the U.S.-China working group, when it was formed in 2005, was basically the impetus for this was the uproar about the scenook-unicow deal that was on the table. And when that all kind of fell apart, it obviously created an uproar in Congress. And Congressman Larsen, Mark Kirk at the time, and I joined in as well as one of the first members to join the U.S.-China working group, we were concerned about the fact that Congress needs good information about what's going on in China. We need to independently assess what's going on. And so this type of environment is what stimulated the formation of the U.S.-China working group to begin with. And as we've gone forward, we're continuing to try to probe all these questions. I think you're very correct in that governors, mayors seem to have a very strong interest in attracting Chinese investment. We still have issues that we have to face up here in Washington, obviously, and it's complicated by the fact that we have a lot of new members in Congress. We've had massive turnover in the last two cycles. So educating members of Congress about the real nature of this relationship, this economic relationship is really important. One of the things that Rick and I oftentimes do when we have these conversations is, you know, when the Chinese approach us about more direct investment into the U.S., we oftentimes will throw back that, well, we need better intellectual property protections on your part, because this creates the suspicion, obviously. And so I think if we can break through that barrier and see some gains, then I think you'll see more of an open door and a long run to Chinese direct investment into the U.S. Anything to add Rick? Yeah, I just think that the role that states are playing now in attracting investment into their states is important. And you are going to see, and you do see, and you are going to see states regardless of which party a governor belongs to, going anywhere in the world to attract investment in their states in order to create jobs. That is one of the fundamental roles of a governor, and that is helping the economy of their state, getting people to work. And so in a state like Washington State, it's probably a little easier to look to Asia for that kind of investment, but it certainly would apply to any other state. With regards to congressional perspective, for good reasons on very few cases there is concern from members of Congress about large Chinese investment in the U.S. But for the most part, very few cases go to SIFIUS, the Committee on Foreign Investment in the U.S. Very few cases go to SIFIUS. And very few of those cases have been cases involving Chinese companies. So there has to be a perspective here, and so when I hear from my Chinese friends that it's so tough to invest in the U.S., it could be this much SIFIUS and this much you're bad investors. Or another reason. But it's not SIFIUS that is preventing that investment. There may be people who believe they can't do it because there have been these big cases, but there's been plenty of growth in Chinese investment in the U.S. It's still a very small percentage of total foreign investment in the U.S., but it is growing at a much faster rate than foreign investment in the U.S., and there's plenty more room for it in the future. Chris, if I can inject, please do one point on that too. When one of the Chinese oil companies, oil and gas companies, took a one-third stake in Chesapeake, there was nary a cry about it in Congress, and so that's an indication of a general change in attitude. Great. Just as a brief follow-up for both of you on that, you mentioned the SIFIUS process. Obviously I think you're right. The Chinese have to have a more realistic attitude or focus on what they're doing and improve the quality of their investors. Do you think that the USG side on the executive branch should also be doing a better job of sort of publicizing that a lot of this Chinese investment does go through without SIFIUS review? And in fact, even the ones that do go through with SIFIUS review often do come out the other side. Maybe, I don't know if it's the U.S. government's job to publicize that or not publicize that, possibly that they could, but I think more importantly, it'd be helpful if we all did a better job in the U.S. government of showing the numbers and showing the facts to the Chinese directly. Sorry, my bad. You mentioned the Mill-Mill cooperation and I know this is an issue that you pay a lot of attention to and I think both presidents seem to show kind of a renewed emphasis and a sense of optimism. I think it's fair to say about deepening that contact and I think we would all acknowledge that it is lagged behind the political and economic elements of the relationship. When you go on your trips, I know you always make a point of seeing PLA to the degree you're able to do so. What signs would you say you're looking for that the relationship is deepening and becoming more real and then how would you see that relationship nesting into the administration's overall rebalancing policy? Well, first off, in regards to the military-to-military relationship, I do get... my assessment is that President Xi is sending a message to the PLA for whatever reason but he's sending a message to the PLA that it needs to do a better job with his relationship with the U.S. military and it's probably have their own interests in mind. I wouldn't expect any country to do anything but in their own interests but having said that, it sure seems that she has sent that message out to the PLA and so you hear much less, I mean just much less rhetoric about Taiwan, for instance, when you talk to the Chinese PLA, much more openness about concerns of North Korea and we met with PLA Deputy General Chief of Staff, Xi, he had some very, very harsh words about North Korea and the leadership and the new leadership in North Korea and this is in January and so I think that possibly President Xi is himself assessing that this relationship as well needs to have a more robust military-military relationship to go along with all these other the economic, the diplomatic and cultural and various other aspects of the relationship. I would agree that the military-military relationship is lagged behind the others and it's a really important piece that takes concerted effort. We've seen a lot of ups and downs. I remember when Secretary Gates was denied an opportunity to visit China Rick and I had actually traveled during that time frame and met with General Chun Bingda and others at the PLA and the U.S.-China working group actually played I think an important role in trying to break down some of these barriers, you know, helping thaw the frost that had occurred and subsequently we saw some improved contact but at the same time I think the metrics are you know, we see these starts and stops with high-level contact and then it sort of goes dark and the real metrics will be as we see more communication going down into the lower ranks with some areas where we can define cooperation and we saw some improvement dealing with piracy in the Gulf of Aden that was an opportunity but I think as Chinese develop their naval capacity we're going to have to really continue to engage I think it would be useful if there might be an operational direct line between Paycom and the Chinese military to avoid accidents or mishaps so I think there's an opportunity at the operational level to have more communication and those might be metrics that we need to gauge as we go forward. Let me just drill down on that point a little bit there was some controversy at the Shangri-La Dialogue in Singapore when it sort of the Chinese revealed that they are now operating in the U.S. EEZ in both Guam and off of Hawaii what's your take on that in terms of how that impacts the need for that kind of communication and the relationship between the two navies? Right, I think that clearly indicates that we have to have better operational communication and so I think President Xi and President Obama probably need to address that at the highest level to give the directive certainly on the Chinese side so that a process could be put in place and I know we have an ongoing dialogue drawing the blank on the title of it at this stage military consultative talks military maritime consultative talks we need to look at that arena and expand what comes out of that into some operational communication to avoid, you know, mishaps I was going to note these are this is an important approach and I imagine someone is going to ask well what about South China Sea and the point I think we are trying to make is that what about the South China Sea you can't even begin to talk as a U.S. and China unless you have some level of relationship first otherwise you are just playing whack-a-mole on every issue we have to have some structure to this conversation between our militaries if we are going to address an issue like the South China Sea or anything else that comes up because tomorrow will be something else so I am not trying to discount that there are flash points because there are flash points but we have a a venue, a structure to be able to talk about these otherwise again you are just going from one thing to the next crisis after crisis with nothing in mind between the two countries and then who knows where that ends up and of course we can't talk about the bilateral relationship these days without touching on the issue of cyber obviously featured quite prominently at the summit it appeared to me that the administration quite rightly was working pretty hard with this discussion pretty tightly focused in the narrow lane of U.S. concerns about intellectual property theft and economic espionage primarily do you think that is the right tack to take or should it be a broader discussion and then based on it seemed to me the Chinese largely are pushing on this issue and we are perhaps even a bit dismissive do you think this is something we can make progress with them on and what are the benchmarks from your perspective of how we will be making progress I think the issue of economic espionage and cyber theft is of all the cyber issues is the one that is most workable most easily workable initial tangible benefits to both countries economically as a result I think it is in our interest and it is in China's interest and China will be able to see that interest very well to move beyond that right now I think is the we don't have some how do I put this countries can't even agree what other countries are doing right now in terms on the cyber security side but on espionage cyber espionage cyber theft again a little easier to define and clear interest can be shown for both countries to move forward on it I would agree with that and there is an element of disbelief and denial that we picked up on obviously in conversations with the Chinese about this and building the relationship to get to a point where we can talk about this is going to take time and some patience but on the commercial side of this intellectual property theft there is clearly an alignment of Chinese and US interest in this especially as China moves up the value chain with research and development and the development of intellectual property but on a broader note as we are working in Asia in the realm of trade with trans-pacific partnership and other efforts intellectual property issues are critically important and will be a big part of the TPP agreement and so as we walk through this we want to do it in a way that creates a strong agreement that entices that basically sets up rule of law in the Asian sphere for trade but at the same time doesn't push the Chinese away or convinces them that we are looking for containment of some sort we want them to be a part of this but it is clearly an alignment of interest if we can get the Chinese to work with us on the commercial sphere and dealing with the intellectual property theft let's talk a little bit about TPP it was interesting about a week before the summit the commerce ministry decided to suggest that they were studying the issue and looking at it Chinese commerce minister was part of the small group discussions obviously what's your take on what might be motivating that and how would you foresee us helping them be part of the process I think early on as we were sort of stagnant in the trade arena we were having difficulty in this commercial relationship with the Chinese and I think as we first got the South Korean free trade agreement now moving forward with TPP and a European agreement right behind that this is creating leverage and especially with Japan's entry into TPP negotiations along with Mexico and Canada this has created I think more leverage for the United States and continuing and momentum to get this thing done but also at the same time creating more enticement for the Chinese to be a part of it time that out with the new leadership in China which wants to get off on a different footing I think that also is a factor in this I think it's an opportunity to take all these things going on in the trade world and hopefully start to bring them together to get us back to the multilateral rules based system the other tidbit of information I picked up on is that the Chinese seem to be showing interest in the trade and services agreement which if they were to move forward with that that I believe would be a big jump start to getting us back to more activity at the WTO so I welcome the opportunities I think this is something we have to continue to push and at the same time as we go through the negotiations on TPP walk that tightrope to ensure that to give assurances to the Chinese government that we're not trying to exclude them we want them in but we want a strong agreement knock me over with a feather if the Chinese government changes their policy on bilateral trade agreements and it goes for a multilateral it's certainly a reason to be skeptical one thing that's interesting or one angle that I think might be interesting on that is perhaps I wonder if the interest in TPP doesn't somewhat mirror and it's too early I think to tell but of course in the late 1990s they used the requirements of joining the WTO to help push through some very difficult reforms that they were facing internally and having difficulties pushing through internally and I wonder if they're not at least thinking about this as an idea for once again having an external cudgel if you will that will allow them to do they'll just have to watch and see how that develops but that would be interesting to see what would you say just maybe you can give us a sense maybe at the sort of 50,000 foot level of the broad legislative agenda that relates to China and your guys' views on that and what you think the key priority pieces of legislation would be as much as President Xi is focused internally on Chinese people on their economic health and his reforms I think Congress is focused internally there are a lot of things we haven't got done and won't get done and there are some things we will get done but if we do anything on China specifically it'll be three lines in some obscure section of the Foreign Operations Bill and there may be a few things like the Defense Authorization Bill as well maybe some reporting requirements for the Department of Defense on China but I just think that most of what's going to happen from a U.S.-China perspective will happen out of the executive branch largely because our focus is internally and I don't just mean internally like domestic we're looking at ourselves so can we get some things done here and Charles is one of those guys trying to do it I would agree that legislatively we are focused on trying to get the bare necessities done but at the same time the U.S.-China working group is very much engaged with conversations with the Department of State USTR Department of Defense and others on constructive engagement how what other things, what other elements could be added into constructive engagement we send letters, we have conversations and we'll continue to do that as we go forward and as we pick up on other things perhaps there may be some legislative things that could happen the only other area that might be of interest from a legislative standpoint would be the cybersecurity area where there are a number of bills that have been proposed a number of reports some have received a lot of attention such as the mandate report and looking at what can the U.S. as a whole of government do in the cybersecurity area which likely would take some legislative they'll likely require some legislation to deal with it so this could be something that comes up legislatively in this Congress or perhaps the legislation could be written and we'll see follow-up in the future Congress on it but I think this is an area that Congress will have to pay attention to and I would note that something like that would would sort of vacuum in the issues that China would bring up or other countries would bring up it wouldn't be necessarily targeted at one country but it's just the fact that we need to have stronger cybersecurity legislation than we currently have one other point I would make too and I mentioned earlier and Rick's talked about it also is the S&ED and what shape will it take next I don't know if there's a legislative role in that but that's an area that the U.S.-China working group is going to be very actively engaged in as we seek input from the Chinese as well as from our executive branch on what should this look like we'll be actively engaged in providing our input as a U.S.-China working group and also educating other members in the House on the necessity for these types of changes great, great questions from the audience as always per standard CSIS policy please wait for the microphone to come to you and identify yourself when you ask your question right up front here Hi, Chen Weihua, China Daily ask what's the average knowledge you would describe every congressman about China I mean is it possible to educate them about China what kind of resources you have how much have changed since the group you know set up after senior case you know I'm not American foreigner so it's but really sounds foreign to me listening to Harry talk about Olympic uniform should be made in USA and China the other day some I think a woman congressman talk about national flag should be made in U.S. and not China you know I don't know is that the debate in the congress thank you I would argue the average knowledge member congress about China is equal to the average knowledge of a national people's congressman about the United States Fair point the U.S. China Working Group has 60 members and we hold briefings we travel we meet with Chinese leaders as they come through Washington but it's as I mentioned earlier with the rapid turnover extensive turnover we've seen in the House of Representatives in the last two cycles we have a lot of members don't know much about China and there's a lot of work to do and that's one of the prime goals of the U.S. China Working Group in the middle here good morning congressman Mr. Johnson ladies and gentlemen my name is Rosemary Sekiro I'm the president of Sekiro's International Group USA based organization here in the U.S. and I'm from Kenya Africa while you are talking about China USA-China relationship at the congress how do you look at clope especially now that Chinese are all over and going to Africa America is trying to do business with Africa Chinese now have taken advantage of Africa doing good work in Africa how do you as USA-China Working Group how can you comment on trade looking at your own the policies and relationship between U.S., China, Africa and other countries how do you look at that and how would you turn that into actual trade into business relationship thank you well thank you for your question I was in Brazil in April saw plenty of signs of Chinese investment in Brazil I've traveled in some of the African countries and clearly the Chinese are engaged all over the world right now largely buying natural resources to fuel their economy this just makes the case for more American engagement in my opinion and I did not like the fact that we were sort of stagnant in building our trade agenda for a while and now we are starting to see the beginnings of a good trade strategy going forward it makes the case for U.S. engagement in all these areas South America, Central America Africa, Asia and I don't like the idea or the use of the term pivot toward Asia U.S. needs to be engaged everywhere and we need to have a comprehensive trade strategy that allows us to do so pivot is a great word for basketball a rebalancing is a much more appropriate term because it's not just a rebalance to Asia as we have withdrawn from Iraq as we withdraw major combat troops from Afghanistan at the end of next year we do need to just rebalance our engagement throughout the world and I'm hopeful that we will I think what we won't find and Charles hit on this point talking trade trade we're not going to engage with a lot of countries as we did in the 30's 40's and 50's and as China is doing today with dollar diplomacy we're not going to go in and build things for folks directly it's going to be largely a trade driven engagement agenda if it's anything there are reasons for that there are budget reasons for that but there are also reasons having to do with are we building the right would we be building the right things and so I would just caution folks the lower expectations not about US engagement but about whether that engagement is going to take the form of just foreign aid to build stuff we are not in that business and shouldn't be we didn't do it very well in the early part of the last century and I won't do it very well in the future how about in the back over to the side there pass it down hi my name is Douglas Conn I have a quick question with regards to TPP in terms of TPP do you think China is trending towards the standards and regulations that are required for China to be involved in TPP or do you think it's due to status quo or do you think they're not really doing what they have to do to meet those standards and regulations I think we have a long way to go China has a long way to go to meet the standards that we are laying out but TPP I think there have been what 17 rounds now negotiations we still have to get through some very difficult issues with the countries that are currently involved in this dealing with state owned intellectual property trade facilitation this is going to be a far reaching aggressive agreement but a lot of work remains but we're going to vigorously pursue it because this has to be a top priority I think this is a key part of US engagement in the Asia Pacific region and so the point I made earlier was let's get a really strong agreement let's set a standard for what trade agreements should look like in the 21st century with regard to these issues and invite China in and we'll see how it plays out but it's not going to be easy but it's got to be a priority Mustn't they out there how about right up here in the front Hi my name is Newpura I'm a graduate student at Seton Hall University about the military and military contacts China's made no China's publicly said that they're trying to build a blue water navy I was wondering if the US-China working group or either of you have any worries or thoughts about how that might impact future US-China relations I guess I'll start the first thing I'd say is if they're going to do it they're going to do it and there's little the United States can do to stop them from doing it so the our attitude should be well if China is going to have a navy that is beyond its coast what advantage can that bring to the global commons and then is China willing to participate in exercises like RIMPAC and can we even invite them are there limitations that we have in our own laws prevent us from even inviting them to participate in naval exercises with other countries but if they're going to do that there are advantages and benefits that that can bring to the global commons on humanitarian assistance on disaster relief on piracy operations so that's one box another box though is why else what other reasons would China want a navy and I think it's very clear you can literally look at lines on a map depending on or dash and make fairly accurate assumptions about why China wants a navy that goes beyond the coastline in blue water we think blue water that's a term we say in the US when we say that we think every bit of blue water in the world I don't think China thinks every bit of blue water in the world they probably think enough of it that bumps up to our interests but given that it does then we need to explain to Chinese we don't need to be bumping up against interests on accident so are you to their advantage to talk and our advantage to talk the other thing I'd say in closing on this question is that we're years back we got to visit we were in Qingdao we got to go on a song class submarine first members of congress to do that Charles was actually the first member of congress to buy two feet but I have an agreement with Rick that when we get on their aircraft carrier I'm gonna let him go for it or go to get it so in that sense we're trying to break through some of the barriers and open a hole for others to walk in if you will and we are making a request to visit China again to try to get on the Liaoning the aircraft carrier which largely uses the training carrier but the question on carriers has to do with how many and I've had this conversation with the PLA about how many and we have 11 and you guys have one so how many are you gonna have somewhere between one and 11 just to follow up briefly on that you talked about the need to talk and to avoid bumping into each other do you foresee something like an incident that's the agreement being a fruitful I do that it's fruitful it's a low hanging fruit again if you're going to be out on the water you want to know who's out there too and you want to know what the rules are and something happens the other thing I think a few years ago when Mark Kirk was with the China Working Group here in the US House we went out to Gobi Desert to the Space Launch Facility as well and again the first members of Congress to be invited and to go actually the first Americans since pre-TNMN to go to the Space Launch Facility again it was an effort for them, for the Chinese to show some transparency show us what they were doing and I made this point yesterday you know we've got we have language and law that prevents the NASA and it prevents the Office of Science Technology Policy from doing any exchange, any conversation anything with the China National Space Agency because somehow that's going to stop the Shanzhou 10 from being launched two days ago to the to the Chinese International Space Station I mean our steps Congress have taken to stop China from doing things has not stopped China from doing things but it sure as hell but it sure as hell has prevented the United States from finding out more about what China is doing Good point Back to the point of looking at China's build out of its navy this is something that Rick and I have a very intense interest in and it's a natural for China, I mean China is a trading nation they're all over the place now and any nation that's engaged in trade to that extent is going to want to build out their maritime capacity and so that comes as no surprise I think the key is you know getting this dialogue down from the very top to the operational level in some form so that we know what each other is doing and we prevent mistakes Very back back there I'll call up the ICCI Since the late 70's early 80's when a number of us worked on the hill about 25 to 30% of members of Congress didn't even have passports as we look at the debates now on China some of us who have paid a lot of attention to this issue and been visiting China for a very long time wonder if even some of the newer members of Congress perhaps particularly some of the newer members of Congress have the knowledge as you facetiously alluded to earlier that would allow them to play a constructive role in the interest of the United States by learning or understanding more about China's motivation, China's history and how being as you have said invited to join organizations or clubs where the major Western powers made the rules they may have a strong interest in seeing those rules change they may have a strong interest in trying to align interests in ways that are mutually beneficial do you think that particularly the newer members of the House have the intellectual capacity or political will to understand China sufficiently to recognize what's in the United States interests in dealing with China's past and current thinking This is where it's good to be the moderator but anyway I may not usually have the rights to insult your club members but if you're not, you probably ought not to do that but I would suggest that folks who are elected to Congress bring their interests from their districts and it's not intellectual capacity or political will as much as why they get elected what's their district look like what do they have to do every day to get re-elected what legislation do they have to get on what do they need to pay attention to and in your first two, four, six years of Congress that is honestly it's all consuming now if you get past that point and you get that far you get a little more freedom you have a little more time to look at other things to do some other things and and that is in my assessment that's one of the biggest hurdles in trying to get the attention of new members on any issue because for new members, for a lot of folks it's the first time they're dealing with a U.S.-China relationship the first time they're dealing with a budget that's 3.8 trillion dollars right much less first time they're dealing with education policy because they spent their entire time as a land use commissioner it's the first time for a lot of members I'll have differences of opinion with members on the choices they make on policy but you have to have a level of understanding too about where they're coming from because if you don't you don't even get in the door to talk about U.S.-China or anything else I agree with everything Rick just said and I would just simply add that it is vitally important for U.S. national interest for Congress members of Congress to take a strong interest on foreign policy issues I we have to build the luxury the capacity to have that luxury and it takes a couple of elections it takes a lot of work it takes a lot of education of your constituents to do it but it is vitally important because if we're going to have legitimacy in the long run in our foreign policy the people in our constituencies have to accept it and those closest to the people or the members of the House so in particular I would say it's really important for House members to have knowledge of foreign policy issues and that's one of the things that motivates me in this effort I think we've got time for maybe one more young lady right here in the middle Thank you We're with Hong Kong Phoenix TV talking about cybersecurity Edward Snowden in Hong Kong just claimed that U.S. actually hacking China's computer as well do you feel his accusation legitimate and also do you feel this may damage the U.S. image while the U.S. intensively claim China is hacking the U.S. as well thank you First off I'd say I'm glad the U.S. people think that U.S. has enough of an image that can be damaged I'm glad at least that high Second I've got nothing to say about Edward Snowden We have plenty of questions until some of those questions are answered in the public domain we cannot speak about it Okay Well, on that note please join me in thanking Congressmen for their time Thanks a lot Thank you Great answers you guys


Good evening, I'm Mark up to Grove the president and CEO of the LBJ foundation Welcome to the fourth of six sessions on the path to racial equity As those of you who have attended previous Sessions know the concept for this series came when Leslie Wingow the president CEO of Sanders Wingow and I met about a year ago Our friendship began as we talked about the issue of racial equity Those conversations developed into further discussions around ways that we could all engage the community In working to create positive change for greater equality We found ourselves asking what practical simple steps Can we all take toward greater racial understanding and equality? But we certainly didn't have all the answers. We knew people and organizations who did and that led to the path to racial equity an Unprecedented partnership of over 20 lot local nonprofit organizations Exploring different aspects of racial equity Leslie and I are grateful to our partners for coming together to make this happen We're also grateful to tonight's guests Tam Hawkins the president and CEO of the Greater Austin Black Chamber of Commerce and our moderator Renee Lafair The regional director of the Anti-Defamation League in Austin You'll be in very good hands as they explore Economic equity what we can all do to bridge the wealth gap and create long-term Opportunity for people of color. So now without further ado, it is my great honor to introduce Tam Hawkins and Renee Lafair Hello My name is Renee Lafair and I'm the regional director of ADL Austin Tonight I am thrilled to speak with Tam Hawkins Tam is the CEO of the Greater Austin Black Chamber of Commerce Thank you, Tam. I'm excited to be here with you to hear your wisdom and thoughts During our discussion today. We are going to talk about three ways that we can all work towards economic justice Economic justice is such a huge issue. It encompasses redlining Education job training decriminalization. It threads itself across all sectors First Tam, can you explain what economic justice means and how we got where we are today? Oh, Renee, I I wish I had the magic crystal ball to go back in time I often think about this and and wonder How did all of this happen? But I can give you my point of view from where I sit as the CEO of the Austin Black Chamber of Commerce Economic justice is making certain that opportunities economically are Open all it's basically making certain that things are fair and that everybody regardless of their skin color have access to Intergenerational wealth have access to things that that not that aren't even that lofty But things that are just simple as you know affordable housing Making certain that all all communities in particular communities of colors that have have not seen their fair share of equity and and the economic dream that's the American dream So for me like as I've been kind of studying this issue over the last few years I guess you could say that my aha moment was understanding redlining and understanding that people Could not get mortgages and how do you build wealth if you don't have the opportunity to buy a home and Further like the GI bill the GI bill was supposed to help people buy homes But a lot of banks wouldn't lend to people of color and or there were covenants against it in certain neighborhoods So what happens over generations? How does that lead to where we are right now? so I think we even need to go back a little bit more right because we you think of the The average african-american in this country that has roots in this country Most likely has some history with slavery their family now not everybody but the majority So you compact that with not being able to create wealth for generations for hundreds of years and then you move on to different legislation like Jim Crow and then you get into redlining and and other laws that Even currently prevent and I don't I guess I misspoke there. It was not laws, but other systems that continue to perpetuate a compounded Economic instability and so I believe that The effect is that you can't Have the funds that you need to start a new business You don't have the funds to send your your children to college or you don't have the ability to have some of their Freedoms that others might take for granted and rightfully so like everyone deserves that Part of that dream again So why why is this so hard to change? I mean like you're CEO of the chamber I mean so for example in your world of black-owned businesses, right? What is it that makes black? What are the what are the specific differences that you see in black-owned businesses versus other businesses, you know Are there specific challenges? So I think one that we all think of America as a meritocracy So we all like we all believe in it that you pull yourself up by your bootstraps The strongest survive and and to some degree some of that is accurate, right? But then when you have systems that we all Inherited quite frankly, so nobody really is necessarily responsible for the creation of the systems that we live in But we're all responsible for dismantling some of the injustice, right? So black businesses are less likely to have The same access to capital when they're funded so they're already from the gate 20 to 30 percent Sometimes even greater than that and not funded at the same level given that their expertise their credit All of their things are the same They just automatically don't receive the same funding and then they don't have the access to capital in terms of like VC capital or different other Fundings black women are point two percent funded by VC money and and that you know Point two point two percent point two. Yeah. Yeah, and and women in general And that's a whole nother topic and a whole nother series for Leslie and Mark to tackle and so But there's so many different things and nuances that have come to play over generations and I think it's that Having honest conversations like this in the series making certain that That we are able to talk about it We're comfortable with being uncomfortable and acknowledging that those differences actually exist and they're not made up. They're not a figment of somebody's imagination or a certain ethnic group just not being able to tow the line They're they're real adversity adversities that are at play So it what is like what is the I know this time We're going to make three particular suggestions of what people can do to kind of help with this whole world of securing economic justice What is the first suggestion of specific actionable ideas of what people can do to move towards economic justice? I love the practicality of this, right? So we all get overwhelmed economic justice sounds scary and what does that mean and we don't quite know But what we do know that for instance if you live in a city that has 6% Black residents and you'd like to see more black residents You do know that your personal spending habits might contribute to helping more black businesses stay there thereby more black Citizens and residents and your neighbors. So then you're able to make certain that If that is part of your value system, right that you're able to assist in that manner and so Go ahead. No, so like what is the best way for people to find businesses to support? So our organization does Has a healthy number of businesses in the area. There are a few others that do well as well It's austin bcc.org. That's austin bcc.org and they can go on there and find a list of businesses We also supply Certain news outlets and basically anyone who asks, you know, hey, can you send us a list of and we curate lists That have mental health care providers was big early on in the pandemic. We knew that there was a need we also knew that Entrepreneurs may not have that cash their cash flow might have stopped because everyone was hurting like we all were right And so we also put our vendors and mental health care providers in touch With the city because we knew that they had funding to make certain That people had access to get mental health care during the pandemic and crisis Okay, um, so what about what about your corporate dollars? You know that to me is number two For those people who control corporate dollars, whether that's you hire a lawyer for your business Or you hire an accountant or you're buying pencils, you know How can you what do you what's the best way for businesses to find more vendors? So it's back to that intentionality. What do you want? What what's your value system? What how do you want to assist? It's not good enough to have a black screen in your facebook page or What not that's that's simple. That's easy um Looking at where are you spending your money being honest about that looking at your supplier to the supplier diversity lists Um, have you what's your program like when you know, you have a cafeteria and you're staffing the Eliminate have you considered looking at other vendors? And so what I tell people the easiest way to go about that is Make certain that there's intentionality Create those lists go to an organization like mine go to other organizations. You have to be proactive You can't sit by and just think it's going to happen You have to look at it what I people have learned over time that for instance buying blood diamonds is not appropriate They've learned and they they acknowledge that they they don't want that or child labor for instance like you don't want to support a company that supports Uh children working and in pools and just not going to school I I think now the next iteration of this discussion is How do you support in dismantle systems that are just not just are fair So I was thinking about this so for example the people I know who are in business They have long-standing relationships with law firms with their vendors I mean if people aren't willing to change How do you go about and you say to that business? You know, um, we I've been customer for a long time. What are you doing about to bring diversity into your workforce or into your vendor? I mean, how do you how do you say that to a business? Like so you're that you're a customer already Yeah, there's a there's some great examples in austin of some companies that are already doing that So instead of putting their uh, their their black and I keep going back to the black Screen because that was just such an interesting thing to me And I I had a company in particular reach out to me that said, you know, tim We don't really know if the black square is What we need to do we want to wait a moment and and find out what we what we can do So one of their things was When they go into business with people or as they are in the process of business with them They have a a diversity statement and it's a series of questions that they kind of asked them like tell us about this tell us Um, how many what's your diversity hiring practice? Do you have a diversity statement and they just went down? I think it was about 15 questions asking them This was before but you are of course talking about while you're already in the relationship. I just think you know Candor's king I I'm looking to make certain that I influence My spending in this manner Help me understand whatever the practice is your hiring practice Help me understand that and and we are looking for people that are responsible in this area as well That's right. This is important to me. I'm your customer. We have a long-term relationship And I just want you to be aware that this is important to me. Absolutely. Um Okay, so the next thing that you and I talked about earlier was the third thing that we wanted to kind of cover was You know being intentional on how you spend your charitable dollars Um and asking people to really kind of pay attention to that um And the reason that I find this so interesting is I was in a meeting about a year ago Where dr. Leonard Moore who's like the vp of community engagement and a professor of history at ut Explained that there is this thought that white people will give to white charities that help communities of color But not black charities that help communities of color. Can you comment on that? I can sadly so I can there is a disparity in funding As in our businesses. There's also disparity in funding in our nonprofits Um, we are often asked to create the same amount of deliverables um as other organizations doing similar work or I'm sorry different amount of deliverables for other organizations that are doing similar work and they are um granted more Money in that same amount of scope of work and I said that clumsily basically that When we are executing an amount of uh Restricted funds basically right so those are funds Because I realized that I was using jargon a moment ago Those are funds that are attached to deliverables. You have to do certain things to to get those Some organizations don't have any restrictions. They're just able to to get money and no one asked them any questions No one says we need you to do xyz. So I've been trying to I've been on this personal mission mission trying to make certain that um Companies are understanding that when they give in that manner. They're creating disparity you it's that that's not redlining That's not 50 years ago. This is right now today when you don't give equitably Or you don't believe in the mission for uh nonprofits that are run by black leaders That they're capable because that's that's really what you're saying Even if you don't intend to you're really seeing that somehow we don't value the work that you do the same as some others Um, I I just found that whole concept really actually kind of astounding like for me. I always question, you know I happen to think that houston tiltson and austin is just an amazing place and every you know And everyone is giving to ut but I you know, I wonder, you know I want more people to be thinking about more broadly for the community also houston tiltson And you know, how do people think like when they're giving? You know, if i'm going to give to ut I should also think about other universities that are serving different populations Oh, absolutely other universities other non-profits just really thinking about and in my family what we do is a cycle of our charity charitable giving so we'll have a couple of Of organizations that we decide to donate money to at the top of the year And that's what we do for that year and then we cycle a different So we make certain that we even in my home that we're being diverse and intentional about our giving Got it.  Oh, yeah, uh, absolutely again It's it would start with the way that we're funded Initially we're underfunded when we when we start we're we're continuously cash strapped. Um, Again, I I don't know It sounds odd to say because I know how hard and I know there's some amazing Uh black charities and charities run by black leaders, but the um The reality is I can only I don't know why would you not fund them the same? Like why would you go in thinking that I shouldn't fund this like what what is that thought process? How do you come to that conclusion that you should give like my chamber less than you would give another chamber and so and and then on top of that expect my chamber to Do a lot more work for for less money. So, um, I think there's a lot of opportunity there for people to understand that Um and a lot of opportunity for growth So what happened in in your world like to donations and memberships after george floyd Was there a before and an after and I mean there's also I mean There's so much mixed up in this because you also of course had covet So it's trying hard to kind of separate this but the before and the after george floyd world I'm really interested in I call it the perfect storm Interestingly enough our small business membership Uh increased our membership increased businesses understood their their need to To engage your black chamber. They knew that we've been fighting for them for 40 decades I I mean, I'm sorry four decades 40 years and so um So that happened our corporate giving however went down it decreased and we were kind of stunned by that And what we figured out and what we were hearing is that they were forming new partnerships with You know brand new organizations, so we weren't the we weren't the new shiny toy and I was experiencing I was hearing that experience from some other organizations that had been doing this work for a long time and so um I like it when we have corporate Advocates that are inside that know the work that we do and that can say to their higher ups that and not just us But other organizations that they have been doing this work for a long time We've never fully funded them And then the aha moment goes up to their their leaders that like oh, we really haven't you're right And so and that's that's been very helpful Um Okay, so if if there were so now we we've come up with our three things our three things are be intentional in your personal spending Be intentional in your corporate spending both in terms of what you spend And if you can't change who you spend with how you talk to them And then the third thing is in your charitable giving to give to organizations that are run both by people of color And that work on equity and sometimes a combination of the of both If there are one or two things that you want people to take away about economic injustice Or what would that be? But what what do you think about? I think that People have more power than they realize I think more power to shape the future that they wish for their children to inherit um I think that starts with looking around you to understand that things might not Might not appear as Having fresh eyes. I think that unfortunately cove at 19 happened Uh, but we get to look at things differently. We don't have to return exactly to the same way things always have have been We can we can approach things differently and understand that everybody did not start off At the same line, right? We all didn't start off the same line. And some of us have had huge hurdles to to overcome so and kind of like my journey um My journey in understanding all of this and I've always talked about how george floyd kind of cracked the door open for a lot of people You know who were who that was their aha moment I mean, I've had aha moments and then and I think people for are are much more willing to look at this and And this is kind of a painful process for a lot of people, right? And in the way that I I explain this to some of them as I I'll say to them, you know, this country has made great strides But often they come after periods of great reflection and introspection And we are possibly probably going through one of those times right now where we will end up better on the other side So what does the other side look like? How is it different than it is now? So I wholeheartedly agree with you. I think we're we're experiencing growing pains, right? and so We have to be vigilant though, right because in the in that experience We can see some some rollback and and history has taught us that that does occur I the other side to me looks like We are able to see some economic parity We're able to not have this looming before the the pandemic. We had this looming figure that by 2050 that black wealth Would be net zero in this country net zero renae like how is that even possible? and so It looks like that number is so wrong is what it looks like And do you think we'll be able to tell by data? I mean, is that what is is that what it's going to be? I mean, is it going to be that that people talk have the same talks with their kids about what it's like to grow up? No matter your coat. I mean, what is what is that? Are those the metrics that we're going to be looking at? Oh, absolutely. We'll see that when we see the the black consumer Spin rival The black revenue generation will be talking about that more net people will know we will know about asset poverty And we'll see those numbers decrease right and so And people will I think as we evolve will become more aware of that and understanding how to to make things more fair and uh make certain that Our kids are saying well What was it like when that was this way and so I'm hopeful. I'm very helpful And have you seen like the the over the last four decades? What progress have you seen? I mean and you know The things that you're fighting for I mean The thing that I've taken away from all of my studies is it just feels like everything is harder when you know, if you if you can't get loans And and you know resumes are looked at differently depending on your name or you know and Depending on your neighborhood, you know property values and all of those kinds all of those kinds of things Have have you noticed subtle changes even since june since george void? I have I've I've I've noticed A more willingness to admit that things aren't always fair I mean just starting with that basic premise, you know, and and I by that same token I have seen pushback that things are fair everything's fine, but I'm hopeful that more people are able Uh, I think it's because we're all at home together, right? We're all everybody's at home So We're able to focus on it like maybe we got it wrong And so and um or maybe I've never even thought about it to get it wrong in the first place But now I'm focused on it now. I can ask some questions and kind of kind of poke around um So if if you were me like what would you like me? To be doing or my you know, you know like when I I perp for me I work on I like have a gazillion conversations. I ask a lot of questions as I'm sure you've learned And being intentional with all of these things Is there anything One more step that I could be taking, you know after all of these things So I think we talked about personal spin But we didn't talk about how we teach our children to do that And I think that our children You know are just so amazing and they just and even now with a lot of the the division I still see them as very different than us that the it's like the adults are having the crazy conversation and the kids are like What are they talking about? I have no idea. Let's go play on our video game. And so um I think teaching them to make certain that they're intentional about their spending habits I I think is key as well And now it is time for our question and answer session. Thank you guys all for letting us have that time where we um We did the we redid the taping And so now i'm going to go ahead and move on to questions Um for people who are not leading businesses but work in them. How do we advance economic justice? Can you repeat the um, okay, so for those people who are working in businesses that they're not the owners But uh, you know the team members, how do they advance economic justice? So what oftentimes are the small things? Uh that you can start with change. So The the office birthday party. Where'd you buy your cake from? You know, so austinites love to buy locally, right? So pen dig a little deeper How many bake bakers that you know that are black or and find a list and ask around and again It does require effort.  So it's even easier now And so um, there there's so many wonderful tools now Okay, so this question is is a little I'm gonna see if I can get this can you speak to the parallel work of proactively supporting black businesses and communities And the work of white people recognizing and working through how white privilege and systemic racism has benefited them so so how I interpret that question is that the the work has to be done simultaneously and um Having people in power quite frankly is to me how I interpret that question come to the conclusion that they also have to be honest And make certain that they are are doing their part because Again, I I maintain that none of us created these systems like we we inherited them, but we all are responsible for changing them So yeah, that's something that um, I always when I was talking to you about this earlier how people This is a very uncomfortable place for a lot of people But you end up better on the other side. It's just having to work through it. It's um It's similar to your parents making you eat your vegetables like you don't want to do that But it tastes gross, but you know that it's better for your health long term. Yes. I would completely agree with that Okay, so this is actually an interesting one The percentage of people of color in austin has dropped dramatically. How does that affect what happens in austin? Well, it depends on from which perspective what I say is similar to the affordability question for austin and for other cities that have gone You know the way of the sword with this Is that really the city that you want to live in where the black population continues to dwindle the the cultural aspect that we provide to it that just diversity in general like is I I believe clearly that diversity is a good thing and so making certain that um That this wonderful city that we've all come to know in love is enjoyed by uh by black people quite frankly and that they understand that there's Great opportunity for uh growth and and businesses. Of course, I'm going to default to that because that's uh, that's what I focus on um Okay, so austin city council has specific targets for women-owned minority-owned businesses They give contracts to but do you think their targets are aggressive enough? Do you think by combining women-owned and minority-owned company deludes the impact for both groups? That's a tough question. I think that um I think we We have some of the same challenges, but we're very different, right? and so I I think there could be opportunity to um Expand some of the work for each group, of course So um, okay So what sources should I look at to see the data about the ability for black people to get a loan property values being lower Resumes being looked at differently access to capital. What are like the best sources? I mean Well, you can go to fred you can go to the us census you can go the economic census you there So if you want to know I was watching uh blackish This week and he's saying this song about uh, you can google it, you know, so um, and I I I hope google's listening and so I am they are there's There's so many um avenues that you can use there's so many resources You can go to our website probably has some statistical data We do presentations on it There's so much information on it. There really is I mean today I was on the brookin institute site and there they talked about how the average white family has 10 times the wealth of the average black family I mean if you just type in any of those things You will get valid sources for the differences and the data disparities Um, um, so I I encourage I encourage curiosity. I mean I think Here that that's what's happened is the more curious I have become about this the more my jaw drops That's that's kind of like this process that you go through and then you kind of go through in acceptance Um, I have the opposite effect brunet like sometimes I'm like crying in my hands just like oh my work is just so hard Like what do I do? And then I remember I'm very privileged and Blessed to do this work right like I'm blessed. So it's uh, and we're having this conversation and I think about the Collaboration that happened to make these the series the series occur And and that's amazing. That is what's different. That's what I've noticed Rene, you asked me about that earlier You've noticed in terms of the community coming together to put on a series like this and to work collectively Correct. And then like give people practicality Dismantling racism is scary, right? What does that mean? What does that look like? But you do know how to tell your kids to Let's go by you know from this baker And it's not even the kids don't even recognize what you're doing and or whatever I mean, so that you do know how to do that. You do know how to look at who are you giving to You you do know how to do that Yeah, yes Okay, do do black owned businesses in surrounding counties belong to the austin black chamber or do they have a local chapter? What is the best way in small communities to find out who our black owned businesses are? So we have a five county reach.  We we have the five county that's travis Hayes collwell williamson and bernard Got it. And why why do you have the second largest even though we have so much of a smaller black community in austin? So i'm i'm trying to think of the answer where we don't sound braggadocious, right? Um, so You're just so good No, I think it's that uh the community supports for one. I also think that We have the benefit of having the tech community here And I think austin is just prosperous in general and entrepreneurs even our black entrepreneurs in the retail trade sectors We out earn Others in different larger cities and markets three to one So um, yeah, so there is good news too, right, but it's just not moving fast enough and there's still such huge disparity Yes, and Okay, so what are the challenges the hispanic community faces with regard to economic justice and are they different? um, I I don't Suppose to speak for the hispanic community. I will tell you what my my idea of that is I they have similar challenges to us We often work quite frankly with the uh the hispanic chamber here locally We have a really great working relationship because we do have some of the similar challenges. They have access to capital issues They they experience racism And economic racism and so those are some I hope I answered that as best I could They experienced some of the same challenges that we do Okay, so this is an actually pretty interesting question because this talks about not just like businesses, but but workers, right? How should we approach the matter of tech giants such as amazon who may employ a diverse workforce on one hand? But then exploit communities of color on the other I'm thinking of why these organizations squeeze out local business competition and stifle wage growth Wow, that is a that's an entire like hour-long Other series. Yeah, great question. I I think it's just back to the corporate social responsibility and just I mean I see corporations as as well and legally they're uh declared as human beings, right and so they have the rights of humans and so um Just making certain that you hold their feet to the fire And and keeping them honest and I think most people and I also believe most corporations actually do want to do the right thing Some of them are lost on just how And not everybody some people do not I mean, that's true, but I don't tend to to focus on that What is the group? I know your kind of sphere is business. What is the group you most worry about in your community? Uh, can you in what terms is my community specifically or an outside group in the damage that they could cause to my community? No, no, no, I'm more thinking about um in terms of like economic justice Who are I mean we're speaking about black about about black business, but I'm talking about more You know other other other areas um In terms of like wage growth or in terms of things like that What what areas do you see are that concern you or that you'd like to see more growth in? I mean, I probably 50 but there's a lot. Um, I my first one. I have two My first one would be uh health disparities. I I want that just severely worked on um And there's some wonderful groups here in town that are doing some excellent work and the the pandemic highlighted How grave those disparities which a lot of us that are already doing this work already knew um That's my first one. My second one would be an education uh, and uh injustice for for our youth in particular and I and I Warmed my way to talk about it in the video of the the baby this week that went viral. Um, the nine-year-old who was handcuffed and pepper spray and my mind just keeps in part of it because I have an eight-year-old And so and I just can't imagine having a child be um in that so I would love to see attainment And and and not even when I say that I don't really like it because that puts it on us on the children And I don't think it's the children is the systems. So and making certain that the systems uh Educate them properly and address their needs Got it. So, um So it's again, it's back to that theme that everything is involved health Education, you know, all of these issues end up feeding the economic justice the issues of economic justice Absolutely. Um, what do you think austin does well as a city and what can it improve on? um, I love these questions and so um I think austin has a at the end of the day. I really do believe austin has a good heart I believe that You know, we are a city that could have an a task force on institutional racism like talk about a small task To to to handle um, we also Get to come together and have conversations like this for a cross sector of people, right? So I think that that's the part that we do really well I think some of what we could work on is making People feel welcomed by that same token that we I think sometimes we do this kind of do do-gooder And we pat ourselves on the back and then we forgot um um That there's another side and I'll give you Uh an example, please that would be black black lives matter signs in my in my neighborhood And I make jokes to myself that black lives matter as long as i'm not your neighbor walking in the street and you forget to wave at me And so as I wave back so Do they matter or you know, so? um Make certain that we're not invisible that we're not we're here and you know, uh I have another tiny story with an example. I uh sweet lady sweet lady was um at a birthday party and and our kids go to school and There were a group of black moms that were over here and then she came and she was the only white mom And she stayed over playing with her kids and I thought well come come over like we you know Just and she didn't know some of the black moms, but she knew two of the black moms So I should have done a better job myself of making certain that she was welcome and it's okay And so um just making people feel welcome. Okay next another small topic. You ready? Okay Okay, what can we do to address affordable housing for people of color? So there's another series another series another series, but I can do land trust A great way to look at it. Um We also can and recently uh, and I spoke about the collaboration and partnership that I have with some of my other colleagues We've been talking about In the recruiting cycle back to that corporate citizenship. What are how are we helping companies that come here understand? Their responsibility to to helping us maintain an affordable housing Option and so I think there there are some things that can be done there Got it. Got it. Um, okay Where do you see the future? What what do you see the future is for african americans and austin and in what way can leaders attract More to feel comfortable and move to and live in austin Oh, I say it starts with recruiting I I remember a tech partner that said well, we just can't find black engineers And I was like, well, are you recruiting at prairie view and they were like well No, and I was like it's right down the street and you know about I don't know It's a high percentage. I won't I won't quote it because I don't know anymore But a high percentage of black engineers come from prairie view So you've got to go over there if you want that so that's one thing It starts with recruiting the other thing is Making certain that they're they're hiring Black people and then the the biggest thing I have and I know it sounds so small. It's the welcome factor I hear from black professionals and leaders when they move here. They do not feel Welcomeed they they feel isolated and so how do we how do we change that as a city? I mean, how do you do that? I think it starts with individuals I think it's when you know, you know, you knock on your neighbor.  Welcome to austin. I think it's when you see You make an effort to say hello and and get to to know people so um Okay, what are some projects that the black chamber is working on and how can we be involved? That's like that that is a softball We are currently working on a few accelerators one that I'm super excited about is our uh, and I've I've been seeing a little bit of the chat I can't focus on it, but I will see it pop up and I I didn't realize how much I speak in acronyms But a cpg accelerator and that's consumer packaged goods accelerator. So again, we we found in our research that the The black consumer spend is exorbitantly high As opposed to the revenue generation in the in those goods So we want to make certain that we equip companies with the ability to scale up. I'm so excited about this so that's one we are um In the process right now of finishing our planning on our black elected officials event that we've done for like 15 years And I love that event because we aim to make certain that people have access to their elected officials And so and that they get to know them and see and kind of and that's one of my favorite events And that's grown over years, but we're in covet times and it's a little different my other event that we do Is taste of black Austin which is so much fun and it's multicultural and it's these wonderful chefs and people did not know that we had as many chefs providing high And cuisine here in Austin. They were like kind of these hidden figures amongst us and And one that i'm particularly proud of is over at emmer and rye Tavo is just just amazing food And so in beautiful atmosphere, you know when we are all able to to dine inside again or feel comfortable at least so Those are the things that excite me right now for us and and we're really going to focus on women I I am obsessed. I told renee earlier. I am obsessed with what's happening to women in terms of The retreat from from the working world in business because of covet 19 and the effect that has had on them And our last recession we saw as really gain and I really want to see if we can fight some of the damage that might That's being done and making certain that we can help those women kind of Keep their businesses Scale their businesses up like how can we help them really grow and provide for their families? Okay, um next How can austin resist the racial bias and injustice in the financial credit system, especially around housing and life needs? Wow, that is that's a tiny that's a series. Yeah. Yeah, there all are like no easy questions here Um, and but I love it. I really do because that means we're all thinking right and we're all working on it um I one of the things that's disturbing is about the values of a black person's home when it's Even next door too in a white neighborhood and when they go to sell their home We all know that we've got to eradicate every trace of you being black When you're showing your house when you're listing So I just think it's a mind shift is one thing I think also Institutions holding them accountable again Making certain that they are are adhering to the law and the fear lending practices that so the laws exist But it's a are you turning a blind eye and are you accident or accidentally? Having practices and policies in place that will continue to perpetuate that disparity Okay, ha I'm gonna just I want to go back to one thing you just said so when people sell their house What does it mean eradicate all? All way Oh all your photo and you do that anyway, right? But when you're black, you know to hide like perhaps your haircare products, you know You hide everything to make certain that the buyers do not know That you're black because they will not pay the same value for your house as they would and that's been proven Oh, yeah, that's also proven that it's also there was an expose that just recently was done You can google that and you can find Figures in the study in the research and I and if I had the name of the research I I would Call it off, but it is easy to find this This is the thing that I'm talking about It's those little things that keep adding up and adding up and adding up, you know And if when people get loans the loans are more expensive and then when you go to sell your house You have to hide yourself You know so that you don't get a lower price I mean, it's just it's just Um, it's exhausting. It's exhausting. It's exhausting. It's exhausting Okay, we have one more and then I think we're done. Okay, so we're gonna minute what groups are helping um With health disparities, I would love to get involved. That's what that's what um So there there is a brand new group, uh dawa that's one of my my heart Strings and what they do Oh, I'm sorry. It's d a w a again with now and I can't remember the exact what dawa means but um They help uh in particular black artist with mental health care and Immediate assistance for their their needs like if their light bill is being turned off or whatever and I think right now A lot of people have seen some reprieve But they help them with immediate needs and access That that's one. Um, I'm thinking of the black mama's collective and I believe they might have changed her name um, but uh, they and if even if you google black mama's collective, they'll the the new name will come up Uh, they are one that I like Uh, it's not necessarily health related But the work that meme styles is doing would measure austin. She goes. Yeah, it's amazing And so she talks about the adultification of little girls black girls So to me that still is tied to what I'm talking about because my second part was what's going on with the children in the education So that that is one. Um There's so many. Um, I'm trying to think Who else That does incredible work. We have a list of some of our partners again on our website And if it's not exhaustive, I'll make certain by uh next week that we have more That are there so people can make certain that they're able to um to find the things that they need and then if People want to email us also we can certainly List us send over a list of recommendations Okay Well, thank you tam. I I always find your insights to be incredibly illuminating and helpful And I want to thank everyone for joining us in these important discussions And thank our supporters the incredible team at sanders wingo the lbj foundation and their incredible staff and austin pbs I also want to thank our community partners of which there are too many to list but be sure to look um Now you know the saying that the youth are our future Join us next week at the same time for a conversation about the future about how the next generation is fighting for racial justice And what we can all learn from listening to the voices of the young Our guests and moderator are all from creative action The guests are don bernside the senior director of racial equity social justice And social justice natalie good now school based director And students louisa najar and mickey johnson. They will be interviewed by karen lachelle. Who's the executive director? Thank you all and have a nice evening Thank you