So we're going to talk today about CPT coding and reimbursement. CPT code does not equal reimbursement. It's a catalog and a list of services. And they're two separate items. I'm still getting the hang of where I click. So we're going to start off with CPT codes. And I don't know how many of you remember before January 1st, 2013, is all genetic tests and molecular pathology tests were stacked together to get reimbursed. And they were commonly called the molecular stacking CPT codes. And basically each step of the assay, such as DNA extraction, PCR, probe, hybridization, each of those sort of steps of an assay had different CPT codes. And laboratories would put all those CPT codes together to create a molecular coding stack. So what happened is AMA wanted to sort of create new codes. So the new codes were called Tier 1, Tier 2, and multi-analyte assays with algorithmic analyses, or commonly referred to as MOV. Why did the AMA want to put new CPT codes together? So there was getting, essentially it came down to payers wanted to know what they were paying for, and we needed a clear granular system to do that. So part of my job was to get information from laboratories throughout the country, and usually most of it involves a large reference laboratory and some smaller and medium reference laboratories throughout the U.S. So, and I don't expect you to be able to see this or read this, but so we took all the assays and the relative percentages and put them all together. And what you can see is there's about 100 tests or so that really cover about 95 to 99% of the tests that were performed across the country a few years ago. So now it's probably changed a little bit, but this gives you an idea that most of the testing is done in a relatively small number of tests. For pathology or mole path codes, the Tier 1 was created to be analyte-specific codes. Those are the top 100 that are gene and analysis-specific. And then the Tier 2 codes were levels of complexity lumped together. And then you can go to the AMA website and actually see the most current list of codes. So part of what we had to do is sort of create a whole new format. So in a CP Tier 1 descriptor, we developed that the first part of the name would be the Hugo-approved gene symbol and then the long version of the Hugo-approved gene name in parentheses. Gene names are in italics, so that part's in italics. The second parent includes an example of the disease-stater condition. And then outside of that, it's the gene analysis and the analysis type. One thing about these descriptors is I was at one place and they said, well, if your disease or the condition's not listed in there but it's related to that gene, you can't use that test, but that's not true. The disease and condition is an EG statement and not an all-inclusive list. Often common gene variant names are used and the code includes all analytical services performed in the test. If there's cell lysis, DNA extraction, digestion, amplification, and detection. And then all the analyses are qualitative unless otherwise noted. So just to go over an example here is we have BCR-ABL, which is a gene fusion for chronic myelogenous leukemia. The Hugo is actually two genes that used together, so it's a translocation. So we're using the translocation or the cytogenetic information. And it's a translocation analysis for the major breakpoint, whether it's qualitative or quantitative. And then there's subcodes here for the minor breakpoint and other breakpoints in the fusion. Another example is cystic fibrosis, where we have a genus analysis, a common variant. ACOG and ACMG have some guidelines and we didn't know if that was going to change or stay stable over time. And instead of listing that all, we just put the most ACOG or basically the current guidelines. Then under CF, then you could test for known familial variants, deletion of duplications, full gene sequences, and in some cases, infertility just for the poly T analysis in addition to cystic fibrosis. The array CGH is also commonly performed and at that time a lot of the array CGH codes were oligo or BAC. I think that's mostly gone away. Most people are now, most laboratories are now doing the 81229 for the copy number and single nucleotide or SNP variants arrays. We did put language in there that you couldn't use both of these at the same time. So either one or the other gets used. In Tier 2, approximately 600 different genes or gene type analyses to be divided up. And these were the sort of that long, never-ending tale of that graph I showed you earlier. These tests are like the common ones before, but they still meet Tier 1 or I mean Category 1 status. They're lower volume assays, so these were divided into nine levels of complexity. I'll give you an idea.  There's the examples underneath all of these is that Tier 2 Level 1 is basically one variant or one SNP testing. Tier 2 is 2 to 10 SNPs or a methylated variant or somatic variant. Somatic or tumor testing or oncology testing is usually much more complicated than a single DNA blood test. So that had a little higher level of complexity. Then there was greater than 10 SNPs for Tier 2 Level 3 and Level 4. This is where we start doing sequence analysis. So this is analysis of a DNA sequence of a single exon. Or if you're using some sort of multiplex analysis of 10 or more exons. Or 10 or more variant reactions. In Level 5 we're doing sequence analysis of 2 to 5 exons. And really most of this was developed before the advent of massively parallel or next generation sequencing. Then we have 6 to 10 exons in Level 6. 11 to 25 exons in Level 7. And this is by the number of genes, the gene, how many exons it simply has. Level 8 is 26 to 50 exons. And then in Level 9 it's greater than 50 exons. And actually there's very few in Level 9. There's very few genes that actually fit into Level 9. That came up during this is what do you do if your gene or your favorite gene is not listed? So there is a miscellaneous code called 81479. At the time, during the conversion, a lot of labs said, well, my favorite gene fits in this level. And part of the requirement is that you can't self-assign. If your favorite gene is not in the level, then you have to submit a coding change proposal. Excuse me. We can't get into the WebEx and see the slides. We don't have the meeting... The meeting password is the word genetic with a capital G. Success. Thank you. Use multiples of 81479 because some of the labs said, well, I'm doing lots of genes that aren't in that list. Can I use multiples? And the answer to that was no. The gene is not in the list. Then you can submit a coding change proposal available on the AMA Web site. And you have to be able to have reference to document the clinical validity of that gene with that disorder. You have to draft up. In your submission, you include a clinical vignette and a description of the service. For BRAF, which is a gene test for colorectal carcinoma and the common variant that's usually tested, which is B600E. So in a clinical vignette, a 54-year-old man with metastatic colorectal carcinoma is being considered for targeted therapy with EGFR monoclonal antibodies. Initial molecular studies indicate the tumor does not contain any of the 12 common KRAS mutations. And the tumor-rich sample is submitted for BRAF testing. And then in a description of service, and this is the most common description of service or the most likely description of service. Paraffin is removed. DNA is isolated. It has PCR for the BRAF gene. It goes die-directional sequencing and capillary electrophoresis and pathologists or other qualified healthcare professionals evaluate and provide the report. So once we get a CCP at the AMA, look at it to determine the parameters for analyte assignment. So in Mendelian somatic disorders, we look for a demonstrated relationship between the biomarker and the phenotype. In other words, does it have clinical validity? Do the biomarkers or the SNPs that have an association but not prove, this is more the GWAS type of assays or studies that are done, have not a proven positive effect to the known clinical feed-knife but should have demonstrated clinical usefulness, whether that's such as a high positive predictive value or a high negative predictive value directing therapy and management. We did require at least two U.S. laboratories to perform the analysis, unless it was proprietary or intellectual property issues existed, and that was prior to the Supreme Court decision against Marriott a few years back. Analysis involved greater than 10 variants for unrelated families. So we're really, we're looking for tests that, not the super, super, super rare stuff, but something that you see in multiple unrelated families to prove clinical validity. So in the tier two assignments in the tier two code, not all duplications and deletions got assigned an analysis. It had to be greater than 10% of the disease levels associated with duplications or deletions. We did use professional databases to verify all the information for code assignments. It came along while we were in the middle of this entire process, and then labs started doing multi-gene panels. So the Association for Molecular Pathology submitted a coding change proposal to put multiple genes together into gene panels. They were quantitative genomic sequencing, so some of it included exome testing and whole genome. I don't know how I said genome genomic sequencing testing. It's supposed to be a whole genome sequence analysis. It included report and interpretation, separated the report and interpretation from the analyte, and this is the first time that we did this in the mole path coding set, and that was because at least in whole genome and whole exome testing that you may have to go back and reanalyze the data for a different genetic disorder or a different indication. There is a fair amount of work with reanalysis, and we wanted to be able to code for that. So the AMA had multiple open meetings, or at least one open meeting to discuss this with key players or anybody who wanted to come and develop the new codes, which are actually in the 2015 DPD coding book. So here's an example of the new ones that were created. There was an aortic dysfunction, non-syndromic hearing loss, excellent in intellectual disability, inherited colon cancer, fetal chromosome aneuploidy, which is for the non-invasive prenatal testing. We had targeted neoplastic genomic sequences. There was a lot of, nobody was happy with the descriptors when we got done. When we were working on this, I think my email blew up at least four or five times with people making recommendations and suggestions on the neoplastic genomic sequence procedures, and then there was a whole mitochondrial, a whole exome, and a whole genome. The MA codes, CMS announced that the MA codes will be gap filled if the Medicare contract determines that the code is payable under the clinical lab fee schedule. So in the most recent clinical lab fee schedule, there's multiple laws that have been, some of them have been crosswalked and gap filled, and we'll talk about reimbursements. Let's get this question. Why didn't each gene get its own CPT code? And the answer is simply there's not enough numbers in CPT to do that. At the AMA, we did recommend that the gene symbol, the Hugo gene symbol, the Hugo gene be added as a descriptor, especially for the tier two codes. And then another question I often get is, well, can a code be moved from tier one for tier two to tier one? And yes, and that has to be requested by a coding change proposal and approved by the AMA. And actually in the 2016 book, or maybe it wasn't even in the 2015 book, actually I think it is in the 2015 book, there are multiple codes that were actually moved from tier two to tier one. Reimbursement or the pricing process that CMS goes through. I don't know how many people are familiar with that or not, but to give you an idea of what CMS does. So we're available, these new MOLPAS, the new MOLPAS code set was available in the CPT coding book in 2012. But at that, there was really no price or, there was really no price associated with the new code. So labs didn't really want to use them or start using them. So during that sort of, that 2012, that sort of transitional year between 2012 and 2013 when the old stacking codes went away, there was a sort of fight to determine whether the labs are, all those new codes go on the clinical lab fee schedule or the physician fee schedule. The background on that is that all the stacking codes were on the clinical lab fee schedule, but the RUC, which is the Specialty, Society, Relative Value Update Committee, recommended that all the new codes go on the physician fee schedule. When you looked at that, there's federal laws that are related to physician practice, whether it's MD versus PhD, co-pays, anti-kickback rules, and physician signature requirements. So CMS decided to place all the new codes in the Tier 2 code on the clinical lab fee schedule. If you're looking at physician practice, whether it's physician fee schedule or clinical lab fee schedule, actually in the federal law, for physician pathology services, the carrier paid for pathology services burnished by a physician to an individual beneficiary on the fee schedule basis only if the services meet the following conditions. Whether it's a surge path service, a specific cytopath, hematology or bug banking services, a clinical consultation service, and clinical laboratory interpretive services that meet the requirements. Part of the issue is between this is whether sort of the fight between MDs and PhDs in reviewing mole path tests. So a lot of this is done by PhDs and not by MDs. So it was sort of a fight of MDs versus PhDs. So if on the physician fee schedule, labs would have been required to collect a 20% co-pay. At this time, everything on the clinical lab fee schedule, there are no co-pays. So this would have been something completely new for laboratories to do and not to say not sometime in the future that labs may have to do co-pays, but this is not something that's currently being done. There's also special signature rules that are not required of clinical laboratory tests regarding physician kickback and purchasing for clinical laboratory tests. Pathology tests are paid on a different and much lower fee schedule in the outpatient setting than they are on the clinical lab fee schedule. And then indirect costs would be assigned on the basis of all pathology, indirect costs and hospital costs. The concern around physicians not being able to, who do actually review and sign out mole path test codes, the mole path test codes. CMS did create a 4-5-2 for the 2013 code book, and this allowed physicians or MDs to bill for the interpretation of reporting services that go beyond the technical reporting of the test. It cannot be billed by non-physicians, geneticists or other lab personnel. And in 2013, and I'm not sure that it's changed at this time, it was reimbursed at 1871 per test. This is to determine reimbursement. One is crosswalk and gap fill. And I have to tell you, I was not that familiar on gap fill before mole path happened. So for crosswalking, if the test is comparable to an existing test, CMS sets reimbursement of the new test to the existing test. And then it's assigned a local fee and corresponding national limitation amount. So while everybody was fighting in 2012 when the new mole path codes were in the CPT code book along with the stacking codes, CMS could have crosswalked the stacking codes to the mole path codes. But there was too much fighting whether it went on the physician fee schedule or the CLIN lab fee schedule. So it wasn't crosswalked at that time. So in 2013, then, because they were new codes, then CMS determined that they should be gap filled. And in gap filling, CMS determines that there's no adequate comparable. Before the new mole path code set came along, and it was around 110, 109 CPT codes, the contractors had never done that many gap fills at one time. So when Medicare carriers or contractors are instructed to gap fill, it's an empirical process based on local pricing patterns. And the medical directors among the contractors can meet and share information, but they can't reach consensus. The gap filling actually, the process takes a year. So particularly during the first three months, the contractors get the amount. And then around April 30, CMS posts an interim contract-specified amount online. It allows a 60-day, by law, you have a 60-day comment period on interim amounts, which essentially may in June. And then CMS posts the final contractor and limitation amounts online, like mid-summer time. Usually it ends up being around August. Then it allows for reconsideration for about 30 days, which goes into October-ish tongue-in-line. And then the final national limitation amounts are made effective January 1st for the entire country. So it's a long process. I'm not going to go in this in too much detail, but I will. I provided it more for your information. So here's the gap fill to your one code. But if you're really super familiar with the MOLPAS CPT code, there's actually genes missing. So one of the genes I had mentioned previously was cystic fibrosis. Cystic fibrosis is not in the Tier 1, is not in Tier 1 here, along with some various other genes. And that is because primarily cystic fibrosis does not affect the Medicare population or the 65 and over crowd. So CMS didn't set a price for cystic fibrosis and various other codes, or just codes in the MOLPAS tier 1 code set. So this is sort of an example. Again, more of the codes. We have some Lynch syndrome codes, more Lynch syndrome, TMB cell gene rearrangements, and HLA. In the 2015 book, as I mentioned previously, the Genomic Sequencing Procedures, AMA created the Genomic Sequencing Procedure codes or the GSP codes. In all of 2015, CMS had instructed the contractors to gap-fill those. And that process actually was just, I think, last week, CMS announced the, and this was between once prior to giving this slide set to Blue Cross. Last week, CMS just announced the gap-filler rights for the GSP codes. So for your favorite area in the United States where you are, I'm here in Indiana, so my Medicare contractor is Wisconsin Physician Services. And then I have a nice, this was the most recent chart of the regions that the Medicare administrative contractors cover. This does change at times, depending on the contracts. The contracts are renewable and does change over time. Sort of in summary is many of the MACs in the gap-fill rates seem to have coordinated their gap-fill rates for Mulpath, though some of the MACs, such as Palmetto, have established rates for all the codes including Tier 2 codes, but CMS did not include them in their release. I do know that I just saw a local coverage decision proposal from WPS for some Tier 2 analyses. And this is one of the first contractors I've seen do Tier 2 descriptors besides Palmetto. CMS hasn't finalized any reimbursement for any of the Tier 2 codes, and each individual Medicare contractor will continue to establish pricing for that. I don't know, I'm sure for Blue Cross Blue Shield as well as the Mulpath community, the complete revision has had a huge impact on reimbursement for molecular pathology. That is the end of my talk.


Welcome to All Hands Update. I'm Petty Officer Tony Rosa. These are your headlines from around the fleet. The director of the 21st Century Sailor Office, Rear Admiral Rick Snyder announced progress on the Navy's sexual assault prevention and response or SAPR efforts. DOD's SAPR Progress Report released by SECDEF, Chuck Hagel, shows the Navy making progress in two areas, reporting and prevalence. This year, 5.1% of women in the Navy were victims of sexual assault down from 7.2% in 2012 and 1.1% of men down from 2.7%. The report shows prevalence has decreased in the last two years and that victims are less afraid to come forward. The 73rd anniversary of the attack on Pearl Harbor is December 7th. 21 ships were sunk or damaged and more than 300 aircraft were lost. The American death toll was more than 2,400. Commemoration events will be taking place across the fleet. Check your local installation schedule for planned events.


Hey Virgo, welcome back to the channel. This is Kelly from House of Virgo. If you're new, please smash that like button and subscribe. Also, put a like on the video if you enjoy my readings. And if you want to become a member, you can join the Virgo Gang Tribe, $2.99 a month to become a member here on my channel. And for those of you who have recently joined, welcome Kristie Pope, Kimmy, Crystal. Thank you for joining. Rocky Mills, did I say Rocky? Hello, shout out to you guys. Okay, yes, let's get into this reading and see what messages, what does Virgo need to know for the rest of month in regards to a current relationship? Okay, you've got soulmates.  Let me try and get this brighter for you. And you have karmic relationship. Okay. Wow. All right, soul connection, partnership agreement, soul contract. Somebody's interested in you, romance is blooming, fun flirting, someone wants to date you. Karmic relationship, fleeting triggers, turmoil, resentment lessons, letting go and loving yourself. So, okay, so karmic relationship really just feels like there's a really you have a soulmate connection with someone, perhaps, or you will in March, where this person's very interested in you, or will be, I should try to speak in the future here. But there's something about the relationship that causes a lot of or will cause a lot of triggers, and a lot of lessons to be learned. This is a kind of relationship where it's heavy duty, or it will be heavy duty. Okay, there's, there's something that will occur with this person, or someone where you're going to have to do a lot of reflecting about your own anxieties and insecurities as well. And it happens to them as well. So there, there is a connection forming here, or has formed for some of you, a soul contract for sure to people who are more destined to come together. And there is a potential for romance to bloom and date. However, it's, it doesn't feel like it's going to be all that easy. Okay.  Usually when we have connections with people, you know, people reflect back to us, our, our, not only our flaws, but our positive energy as well. So, hmm, that's interesting. Okay, let's take a look and see what the message overall messages are here for, for Virgo, for what else you need to know. Okay, she's got the death card. All right, there's definitely this relationship is going to give some kind of change or bring change and transformation. Okay, Scorpio energy there. Wow. And the lovers Gemini. So, wow, Virgo, there's an old saying, be careful what you wish for. You just might get it. It looks like if there's a situation or a relationship with someone or just a desire to be in a relationship, I feel like you shouldn't go in with rose colored glasses on. I mean, it's okay to be happy and excited about meeting someone and connecting with them. But keep in mind that, you know, the lovers is about being vulnerable. Right? The lovers is about opening ourselves up and connecting with another person and showing ourselves fully. All of our, you know, all of our flaws as well as, you know, all of our attributes and it's accepting each other and forming a deeper bond like a deeper bond cannot be had unless there is this vulnerability that it has to take place like in all forms, you know. But there's a great love here with someone. Definitely. There's a great love of two people who are making a decision to be together and to come together and nine of cups. This is something like I remember I said, be careful what you wish for. You just might get it. You're getting whatever it is, Virgo, that you've been wishing and hoping for in March and going forward, you're getting it this year for sure. Okay. And it's going to be life changing. Definitely. But it's also about a decision. So you either you've made a decision or you're making a decision in March about taking yourself into a position of being open and honest and vulnerable with someone. And I feel like there's two people here who want this. Both people, both parties want to reach that level together, desire to reach that level together. Give me a clarifying card for the death card because death is like this is a cycle of rebirth. So for some of you, it's a rebirth of a relationship for others. It is connecting with a soulmate and being willing and open to to be open. Really. Wow. Okay. For some of you, this is for some of you, this could involve marriage. This is an 1111 kind of connection here. This is celebration for some. It's a reunion for some a reunion with a Scorpio for others. This could be about building the foundation and having a new start here, building a foundation of a relationship, clarifying the lovers who got the world. So this is like a brand new chapter that's coming about here. Looking back on the past, letting it go and making a decision to come together and either begin dating or just to start all over. It could have something to do with travel for some of you if you are in a long distance connection with someone or if someone you're not, you could be completely single and somebody comes from far away. Okay. Yeah, I mean, I just want to get another clarifying card for the world and the world. So I'm picking up Aquarius, Leo and Taurus as well. Yes. Decision making plans. Plans are happening in March. This is pretty much like kind of being in a crossroad. Either you are another person and like you got the world in your hands and it could have something to do with travel as well. But it's really about it could have something to do with starting somewhere together, somewhere in the world or combining worlds. I feel that pretty heavily. Okay. Let's get into the nine of cups. So again, you know, John Travolta keeps showing up in my readings here with this nine of cups. So this is, this is like your wish card. Make a wish. Pure contentment. If you haven't made that yet, make that wish. But I feel like some of you have. You're ready. Some of you are ready. This is being ready to start all this new journey together. You're standing at the crossroad. Another person is at the crossroads. Two people meet in the middle. Try to figure out how to have a new beginning together. Okay. Yeah. Virgo, look at you here with the hermit or you have a Virgo connection with someone. This is really like reflecting. Am I ready for this? Because I know things are going to be a little tough going forward. I'm going to have to face myself as well. I'm going to have to face my own term oils in a relationship. You know, relationships. That's how they are.  Some of you Virgos are just like, keep me in hermit mode, then I don't have to look at myself and I don't have to have anyone reflect back to me. I could just look at the light myself. Some of you Virgos are very sensitive and you like to stay on your own.  And I think it's okay to like kind of analyze and self reflect on your own shortcomings. But I think it's also important that you balance that out with your longcomings with your stuff about you that's really great. Okay. Because I do feel like if you're in this relationship or you make a decision or you choose with someone else to go forward in this relationship, you're going to have to also practice a lot of letting go and loving yourself, which means, um, you know, you in a relationship with another person, you're still autonomous.  It's not about you staying or being codependent or focusing only on the other person. It's about you having your own boundaries and they having theirs. And this might be something like, do I really want this? You might be asking yourself, am I really ready for this? Because it's coming, Virgo. And I know some of you like you've been saying that forever. Well, it's not for all of you. Okay, it's not for everybody. If you've been listening for six months or two years, and it hasn't happened, there might be something on your end you need to look at. Okay, because I know some of you are like, Yeah, no, this is definitely the situation. Okay, yeah, a lot of effort and a lot of hard work. So I do feel like there is another person like you. It's interesting because when I when I was shuffling these white cards at first, when I was shuffling at first, I saw the card that popped out and I just looked at it really quick. And I didn't pull it, but the golden mirror showed up and, you know, that's a little bit about like I was saying, and you had mirror yesterday, that's a little bit about like, relationships will have to will cause you to look in the mirror as well. So it's the same for this person. Okay, but I do feel like there is a desire on both ends to come together. But it's kind of I it's not like I'm not seeing anything here with quick movement. So I feel like it's going to be slow, like a slow process. And if you're someone who is sensitive to turmoil and triggers and things like that, it might be best for you to go slow. You know, the older you get, right, you've got your scars.  Because that's just what you do. But now it's like, wait a minute, baby steps here is what I'm hearing. So putting the effort into people, I do see that can occur. There may even be an apology from someone. If you have a relationship with someone that you, you both truly care about each other, but a lot of things have happened in the past. There may be this forgiveness energy that, you know, I do see that showing up here. But this is also an energy of new love. So for some of you with the Page of Cups, this is a new start for you very slow, very mild kind of thing. I just feel like the overall message here is to take your time with this one. Take your time. Don't rush. Don't rush this one. Okay, divine timing. There you go. So I feel like this connection, such terrious energy here, I feel like this connection with whomever this person is showing up or is currently in your life. This was meant to be for some reason, right? There's there's some lessons in here. Remember that? There's some lessons. So there, if you are, you know, if you, if this is a past history kind of thing, you may have been learning those lessons. Now, some of you may choose not to reconcile with someone. And you have the free will to do so, of course. For others, this is an energy of, like I said, somebody knew coming in and this was like the person you were meant to connect with that soulmate energy. Look, there you go. There's a lot of healing with this with the caduceus here could be a Leo, but there is this seeing eye to eye here to people who are like on the same page mutual understanding in agreement. And again, a little bit of mirroring energy here, two halves of a whole coming together and can also be new love for some of you friends to lovers. I'm looking at that too. And that's definitely a coupling. You have two twos here. February 22 might have been significant for some of you, but I'm also feeling a gemini too. So I feel like one of you is really cool, calm and collected. And the other one is kind of either like has a mood shift. So when I'm looking at the colors, one of you may be pretty much optimistic and bright, but you have your dark moments, where the other one is just overall cool, calm and collected, but also has fiery feet, so to speak, you know, gets moving, gets moving. Okay, that's an interesting. Now they're also telling me this might have there might be a connection to some type of healing modality as well.  Let me see what else is going on here. Wow. Oh my goodness, you have the ace of cups. I mean, there really is great potential here. This is so this there's I'm feeling more so this is a new love or a recommitment to love developing here. I feel like though it could feel like it's karmic. I don't want you to be afraid of that. I feel like it could feel like it's karmic. There could be someone one or two people remind each other of past people or past situation. There may be a time to let go of a karmic relationship that was just more negative than positive or a relationship here where it's like, if you know this person, and you're going to start over, it's time to forgive, forgive, accept and let go of the past if there was any kind of deception or cheating.  So if you have been in relationships in the past, where people were just constantly lying and constantly just lying generally and had a lack of integrity, forgiving is really for you, I feel, but that does not mean that you can should accept someone back. And I'm not telling you to do that. I'm pretty much saying you got to weigh this out on your own. Okay, if you've had someone that was like a habitual liar, or running away all the time, then that's something that you see you need to take a serious look at if this is a recommitment to something. And you need to see if someone has changed, of course, like seriously made some hard core changes. You may be also carrying some, like I said, scars or things from the past that could trigger this person might do something that triggers. And you have to kind of take a look at that from a very objective point of view, you know, yeah, I have to be careful lately because I feel like, and I said this in my last reading Virgo, like if you are you're going to reconnect with someone that, you know, you love, but they have a problem with habitual lying or sneaking around and things like that. Then if you're going to reconnect with them, it's really important that you use your head when reconnecting with them, not your heart. Yeah, that's like the biggest message you don't want to go in with your emotional thinking with someone who you can't trust. You know what I mean?  I don't necessarily feel like that's the case here. I do feel like there may be some things that come up in this relationship that are going to cause you to pause. And it's either because this person is going to present in a way that might make you feel that way until you have evidence of that or it might just trigger some past stuff with you, right? It's hard. It's hard to heal a relationship with someone you truly love that has, you know, has gone on to maybe they have addictions or acting out of integrity, acting without integrity and not being honest and above board and truthful. I'm not really feeling like that. But I do feel like you're going to be called to weigh your options here to weigh things out. So to try to balance so you don't get caught up in emotional roller coaster with someone or with anybody in your future, right? So I see it being very positive though, because even with the ace of cups, I do feel like there is an opportunity here for healing and the two of cups. Yes. But you know, I feel like for some of you, Virgos, it's like, okay, what's the price of that? You know, what's the what's the cost? What's what am I going to have to pay for the healing? Some people don't want to pay that heavy price. Some people are willing to do that.  Okay. So you've got the magician here, Gemini energy is showing up again. So there is this laying it out all out on the table from someone here is going to just put it all their cards out on the table with a magician, try to manifest something here. A new beginning. Now let me see. Oh, yeah, for some of you, it is a reunion. Try to come together with you. Now for some of this could be a friendship as well. Okay, just keep that in mind. This could be like you want to reconnect with French with a friend or friends or a sibling or siblings. Okay, don't forget you guys follow me on Instagram house o Virgo. The link is in my link tree. Okay, let's see. Hmm. All right. It's a struggle here. Mental struggle. Definitely with maybe some siblings or some friends or a lover. Yeah. There's some restrictions. There will be some restrictions showing up here in order to bring this reunion about I do feel that but the motivation, the desire and the willingness is definitely there to come together. So let me see here. What else does Virgo need to know? Hmm. So coming together might have something to do with financial aspect as well. And judgment. Mars ruled so that I think that's typically a Scorpio card. So there might be something to do. There's a little bit of hesitation and delay. As I said, something to do with opening up. Hmm. Or finding an opening to reunite. Okay. But there is this, you know, taking a look at, you know, how how is this going to happen? This romance, this blooming, this dating. Okay. Hmm.  The passion is there. The lust is there. The desire is definitely there. And as soon as an opportunity arises, and it may be, you know, this energy is playing out in March. It's beginning. Okay. I know that we have this new moon coming up on March 10. And I said before that it could be beginning now. There may be like an they're telling me an opening up sometime between. Oh, that's a long time. So Virgo, I'm not sure if you want to wait that long for someone to like, you know, come towards you. But I'm just gonna say it. For some of you, it's there's some time between like August into Oh, no, no, no, I'm sorry. No, November, December is what they're saying. That's a really long time.  Okay, you've got the three of pentacles.  True love is worth the weight, right? Some of you I know are like, I'm not waiting that long. Some of you are like, no, I love this person. I'll wait whatever it needs to however it needs to happen. That's fine. You know, we'll make this happen. So I can't really tell which Virgo up here is gonna be willing to wait that long. But you know, if you're willing to wait, put it in the comments. If you're not, give it a, I don't know, don't say, say if you want, I, it's fine. Okay, there's definitely an opportunity for growth here. Positive new beginning to do the right thing and to make something right. So I feel like something is going to move forward. It's but it's all in with the temperance card. It's it's not like it's not in your time Virgo, right? And I do feel like that March is showing us and so we have Libra and Leo March is definitely showing a time for new beginnings. Definitely. Okay. Don't get me don't don't I feel like to say don't expect March for it to happen. It could actually start happening. But there's something for some of you about some kind of like needing to hold back some type of restriction. Let me see what your messages of love. Okay, all right. So somebody is going to get an apology. If you've been waiting to hear for an apology or expecting one, it's coming. And yeah, there's financial challenges affecting a particular connection. So if you there's money involved is something to do with with money. Okay, for some of you, there's a past life love connection here that your the timing is not right. Okay, so let me put it this way. This is a past type of connection with somebody going to have to wait a little longer. And that's that's what's being presented. What you choose to do with that is is on you. If this is somebody new coming in. Yeah, there is a financial restriction between the two of you for being able to come together. I don't know exactly what that might mean. Somebody might need to relocate for work or they're they're they're they're hitting hard times. They really want to be with you. And some of you if you do meet somebody new and there's an opportunity to come together, this person not able to do it because of money, or you not being able to do it because of money could trigger some I don't know some stuff like unless you have clarity about something with someone here. If they don't tell you it's because they don't have the money or they're broke and they can't make this happen, you might think that they're not interested. And that might trigger something within you. So not many people want to admit that they're broke. You know, when it comes to dating, some people meet someone and it's like, oh my gosh, I've just met the perfect person. However, I'm living in a tent on the side of the road. I don't want them to come see where I live.  That can't and so that could be a restriction. Pride. There's no room for pride in a vulnerable, loving, long, you know, deep partnership with someone.  And some of you need to be having that awakening about that. Okay. Spiritual lesson. There's a spiritual lesson here. Remember, I said karmic relationship teaches some lessons. Okay, someone may not be available at this time. And you might already know this and you need to trust your intuition. Sure, someone might like you. And sure, there is an opportunity here, like I said, for a soulmate connection. But there might be something showing up here where they may not be available just yet. That's why they were pushing it out a little bit of a little bit further for you, Virgo. Oh, gosh, tough. You know, it's interesting because it didn't have any court cards. So, you know, I was throwing out some energies as far as like the zodiac, but their energies. So if this reading resonates, then it would be about whomever you have on your mind and in your heart at this time. But they weren't being specific with the court cards. We'll see if we can do it with the Chinese zodiac, you and this person. Okay, so beginning with the rat, snake, goat, dragon, rat again. There's a tiger, an ox, double ox, a rooster, and double rooster. And goat again, double goat. And did I say rabbit because it's here again? I can't remember if I said rabbit. So let me get one more snake again. And okay, a horse. There you go. Alright, so I feel like the overall message here, Virgo, for this connection is to just go slow, baby steps, take your time with someone. Don't rush into anything. If something feels off, slow it down even more. Patience, that's why temperance is there. Temperance is screaming, patience, moderation, in divine timing, some situation, relationship will come to fruition in the way you hope for it to come. There's patience, everything will unfold in divine timing. And so I always like to say, you know, Virgo, what's meant for you will never pass you by. Okay? And if something is coming your way, but it's not moving forward, that doesn't necessarily mean just because something comes your way that it's meant for you. What's meant for you, you'll just know and you'll feel it from your head to your toes. Okay, you'll just feel it from your head to your toes. Let's get a couple of Chinese cards here and see if there's anything else Virgo needs to know. Okay, your love life is showing up here, Virgo. Affairs of the heart could cause future problems, but take heart as difficult situations will be resolved by a good decision, especially this week and with this reading. Okay, Virgo, make good decisions, trust your intuition. Look at that. Trust your intuition. It's a great time to learn a new skill, change careers, or invest money. Okay, and other areas of your life, Virgo. And you also have communication. A reunion could bring love or a rekindling of friendships and or love. A lucky win seems likely, so that's good. Play the lottery. Let's see. And you've got wisdom to focus on the past is to lose the future. Heed advice from an older person, which will allow you to move on or forward. You also have care is required. Guard yourself against deception and be careful of making foolish mistakes at this time, Virgo. Okay, trust your gut. Trust your intuition, Virgo, when it comes to this relationship because, you know, I can't tell for sure someone, there is going to be some, there is going to be some triggers in a relationship here. I do believe that if you have unhealed wounds, anything can trigger. Okay, so you have to kind of work through those. But if you are, if there's a relationship here that begins for you or starts beginning in March and doesn't really take off till the end of the year and there's too much triggering way too much way. It's either you got to heal those wounds or you're with someone who's just constantly pouring salt in open wounds. So you're going to have to sort that out here for yourself. Okay, someone is 54. August 24th. We have 65. We have 48. JZ. JZ. There's JZ. J and Z. September 2nd. X and a V. Someone's a Vixen. Yo! We have September 16th. The letter R. 1981. 1990. Letter O. Somebody's born October 29th. And also August 29th. 74. August 31st. The letter E. The letter B. Ariba. Letter I. Okay. The letter Y. Someone is 37. Hmm. Okay, the letter A and the letter K. Someone's in Arkansas. 1970. Okay, Baton Rouge. I just heard someone's in Baton Rouge. Someone's in Indiana. And what else? Someone's birthday is in April. We have either someone's 57 or born in 57. Someone is 42. We have the letter D. And someone's born in November. Possibly November 12th. Could be a connection. All right, let's take a look and see who this connection is with, with sign. So we didn't really get too much of that in the court card. So for some, this could be a Scorpio, Sagittarius, Leo. We have double Sag. Capricorn, Libra, Pisces, a Sag again. I can say this for a go. If you have unhealed wounds and you're in a relationship with someone and something triggers you, the person you're with should be trying to soothe those wounds and not pour salt on them. Okay. So keep that in mind because everybody has some triggers. Everyone. Reassurance helps build trust with other people. You know, and it doesn't mean that you have to only rely. It's important. I feel like that you trust spirit or God or whomever to help heal those wounds. That's the old, you know, like they say, Jesus, the ultimate healer, right? So it's important that you get your healing there. But as an added benefit, the person that you're with is not going to do anything to put themselves in a position to lose you. And they're not going to do anything to put themselves in a position, even if that means like hurting you. Some people don't even know they're hurting. It's important to have that communication if you feel like you're triggered by something. If someone and the person you're talking to who truly cares will be willing to listen and not dismiss you. All right. Double Gemini Aquarius. Sagittarius keeps showing up. So there must be, oh here's cancer. There must be a connection to a sag. I feel that like a strong for some of you. Strong connection. Okay. You've got an elephant and you have bananas. Okay. So definitely a connection. Oh something about a trunk. Did you, are you missing something? It might be in the trunk of your car. I don't know. Just feeling this like the shape here. Something about a trunk. Okay. Somebody might be born in the year of the monkey as well. Elephants represent wisdom Virgo. So be wise, right? Use your wisdom. You've got the experience. You've got the wisdom now. Be smart about you know decisions that you make in your life going forward. But this banana thing. I don't know. Are you eating a banana? Or do you like bananas or something? There's an attachment to bananas. Maybe it's that old saying. Remember it's bananas. Or this reading is freaking bananas. Okay. Let's see what else do you have? Okay. There's a darn owl again. All right. There's definitely a connection to an owl. This looks like an owl that's, it just gave me a pine cone. Something about owls and pine cones. Here's the tree of life. Very important message for someone in regards to a tree of life. If you have any connection with the tree of life or the cabala, there might be a connection with that. You also have a beautiful, well this is a green rose. Look at that. It's not red. It's, oh wait. No, is it green? No, I'm sorry. It's blue. There's a blue rose. I don't, yeah, that's very specific. Something, some connection with a blue rose. So yeah, Virgo, here's a fish. There's Pisces showing up here as well. And you might have Pisces in your chart or this might also be a connection with a Pisces. I just kind of feel, Virgo, okay, so they're saying connect with that Pisces and dreamy intuitive energy that you have. I don't know why there's something there about your, your intuition, your feeling. Try to understand your feeling about something. Yeah, feelings are, feelings are tough. I know for Virgos it's like feel. What are you talking about? I sometimes think Virgo's feelings are so deep that it's hard to access them so Virgo tries to just stay very like mental at times with things or physical. But there's something here about accessing the depth of your emotions not to let them run you but to just kind of do a check-in that hit those hidden emotions or something here about that. Maybe you've been doing some shadow work or you've been looking at that or working on your emotions or trying to identify and label them. Keep doing that. That's really healthy for you Virgo. Okay, I feel like I'm gonna leave that. That felt like much more spiritual kind of a message, you know. So yeah, if you want to get a personal reading there's a link in the description box below. Definitely reach out to me. You can do a text reading or a phone call. If you want to become a member of my channel definitely join. I'll give you a shout out. You get cute little emojis and a nice awesome colorful badge and yeah, I'm gonna leave that there. Don't forget to follow me on my socials. Go to my link tree. The link is in the description box below and I will see you all back here tomorrow. All right, take care. Hey guys, thank you so much for watching my readings. If you'd like to get a personal reading, please feel free to click the link in the description box below to go ahead and follow that link in book you're reading. Please remember to book, subscribe, like, do all the great things and I hope that you guys have a fantastic, blessed, loving, and light filled life. Thank you. Bye.


Welcome to our special edition of Tea Time hosted by the New Jersey Tea Party Coalition. Today our guest is Dr. Yarnbrook, who is the author of Free Market Revolution, along with this co-author of Don Watkins. Thank you for being with us today, Dr. Brook. Pleasure. Thanks for having me. So, when we talk about the Free Market Revolution, what does that really mean? Well, first of all, it means free markets, and let's be clear, because I think people are very confused. We don't have free markets in the United States today. When I mean free, I mean free of government regulations, government controls, government interventions, I mean real free markets, and I don't think we've had anything resembling free markets in the U.S. Probably for a hundred years. So, we're talking about changing the world of government from what it is today, which is to redistribute wealth, to regulate business, to try to control the economy, to decide when it's a boom and when it's a bust, and all the involvement the government has that it has in our lives, in every aspect of our lives today, to what I believe is the original intent of the founding fathers for what government should do, and what government should do is protect our rights, protect us from crooks, protect us from thieves, protect us from fraudsters, from terrorists, have a judicial system and leave us alone otherwise. And that's what a Free Market Revolution really means. It means freeing up the market. It means getting the government off our backs and letting us actually be free. So, how do we put the genie back in the bottom? Well, that is a big challenge. The argument we make in the book is that the case for free markets is not primarily an economic case. The genie is not lack of knowledge in economics that people have, and if only we talked about economics, they'd get it, because economics is pretty simple. Well, if you get deep into economics, it's a complex field, but here the economics is simple. There's a direct correlation throughout human history between economic freedom and standard of living, and wealth and well-being. And that's right there in front of our faces. There are plenty of examples of that. American in the 19th century and the kind of economic growth and prosperity that it generated. We went from a second-rate colony of the British Empire to the mightiest industrial power in human history. In a span of 130, 40 years, which are the span, not accidentally, of the period where we were freest. And there's examples of Hong Kong where they have incredible economic freedom, they've done phenomenally well in spite of having no natural resources, and no safety net, and no redistribution of wealth. It's exactly for those reasons. They've done this incredible, being incredibly successful. So my argument is the economic argument for free markets is out there. It's clear people have chosen to ignore it. People choose to look away, not to deal with the actual facts. And they choose their economics, they choose their belief system about politics and economics, based on their ethics, not based on economic argument. And my argument is that the ethical code that exists today in America is much more consistent with socialism than it is with capitalism. Much more consistent with statism, government intervention, than it is with free markets. So what I'm really calling for in the book is a moral revolution in order to bring about a free market revolution. The genie has to be, in a sense, we have to replace our existing conventional, standard view of morality with a new morality, with a morality that respects individualism and freedom and enterprise and entrepreneurship. That's the kind of morality that we need to replace the morality that exists today. So how do we really get there? Because as you said, we're now in this whole different place. We're in a place where people don't want to work as hard. They don't want to be accountable. When we talk about selfishness, people are reviled by it and they think that it's this horrible thing. They don't think that having an interest in your own self-worth and preservation is a good thing. So being that people from the time they're born through the entire educational system and then society and pop culture also are telling them that all these things that should be good for them are bad. How do you get people to rethink? Now I'm depressed. It's hard and we have to be very realistic about this. This is going to be war. This is hard. This is going to require enormous effort by a lot of people, but there's no way around the fact that the struggle we're in is an educational one. This is about education, education, education. Educate kids, educate adults, educate as many people as you can, particularly the ones who are going to be influential, the smart kids who one day will be in the media or one day will be professors at the universities or going to politics or going to think tanks. We need to educate young people on a massive scale. And you're right, we're going up against a massive educational infrastructure which is all set against us. We have one weapon on our side that is incredibly powerful. Well, we have more than one, but one big one. And that is the truth. We have reality on our side. What we're saying is right. It's right morally and it's right factually. It's right practically and it's right ethically. And that is an enormous advantage that we cannot underestimate. So give them the infrastructure. I'll take truth over infrastructure any day. I also think we have another kind of secret weapon. And that is the link to the founding fathers. There's still an incredible respect in this country across the board. You know, less so I dug you on the coasts, right? On the bastions of liberalism, more so on the hotline. But a majority of Americans still feel a certain deep respect for the founders and the founding ideas. They don't understand them, but they kind of have a sense of it. We need to teach them about that. We need to teach them about what the founders really meant. We need to be careful here. We don't want to make the founders into people they want. We don't want to distort their views, which I think many people do. But we need to teach them about the founding documents and the founding spirit. Because this is about a spirit. And you know, what we need to hook up with is this desire that Americans have in spite of everything that they're taught. Americans, you know, a unique way if you look at other countries. We still want to be happy. Yes, we do. We still, you know, self-help sections in the bookstore are massive. You don't find us in Europe. It doesn't exist in Europe. Europeans, in a sense, in some deep sense, don't care about happiness. They don't want to be happy. They've been taught by existentialist philosophers that happiness is impossible. It's not important. You just live and you live for the moment. That's why they don't want kids. I mean, a lot of sociological consequences to the philosophy that Europeans have adopted. Americans want to be happy. They want to be successful. They even want to make money in spite of everything we say about the rich. Who doesn't want to be rich in America? Almost everybody, right? Even those leftist kids who all voted for Obama. They want to be rich. They want to be successful. They want to be happy. That's what we need to leverage. We need to take that and we need to say, yeah, that's all good. Stop feeling guilty for it. This is why they read self-help books. All it takes is getting rid of that guilt, really. You don't need the self-help books. You need to figure out what are truly your values. And you need to be consistent about pursuing your own happiness. And learn that, for example, the common label for selfishness, being a lying, cheating, thief, is wrong. That's not what selfishness is. Just look at Bernie Madoff.  It's self-destructive. Self-interest is about rationally figuring out what are your values? What are the things that are important to you? What makes the human animal as a species function well? Achieve true fulfillment. And the things Ayn Rand talks about them and encourage people to read The Virtue of Selfishness, one of her essays. I have it. It's important to read it. And then she says, you know, this requires being rational, you know, connected to reality, dealing with facts, not with fiction, not with what you feel is good. But what is truly good, it means being honest. It means, you know, honest to the facts, not corrupting your rational faculty with untruths, with falsehoods. It means having integrity and being independent and, you know, having pride in your own achievement. And one of the most important ones is be productive. Absolutely. Take care of yourself. Know that you can take care of your own needs, that you can, you know, feed your family, that you can clothe your family, you can provide. You know, even poor people, and a friend of mine, John Allison, who was the CEO of BB&T, a bank, he used to talk in his talks about his grandfather, who was a bricklayer. Very, very poor. But every day he went and he did his job and he did the best job that he could. And he made enough money to take care of himself and his kids. He was poor. He was always poor. But he earned it. Whatever he earned was his. And he had dignity and pride. And he raised his family with pride and he raised his family to be educated and to take pride in their own achievements. And in this case, his grandson became a CEO of one of the most successful banks in American history. But the key is that this grandfather could be happy in spite of being poor because he had pride. And pride is an incredibly important virtue. So be productive. Take pride in your own productivity. And what we do with the welfare state, for example, is we eliminate pride. We tell people, don't work. You know, here's a check. You don't get pride from being needy. You don't get pride from getting a check from somebody else's work. You don't get pride from being entitled. So we're destroying whole generations of people by putting them on welfare. They're the victims. And that's a message we need to communicate. We need to hook into this idea that Americans have about happiness, about success, about prosperity, about all the good things in life and teach them what that actually means. And then explain to them what it means in terms of politics. So do you think that that is going to give them that sense of fulfillment and happiness? Because just like you said, what you're really talking about is an American dream. Yes. That everybody can share in. And I often tell people about what my history and my dad were. They grew up, they were sharecroppers. But they were happy. And they were able to achieve the American dream by leaving the sharecropper farms and only having a limited education. And their children becoming educated. And they had a lot of pride and dignity in the things that they did. It wasn't a shameful thing. They were proud that they were able to do these things. And today, it's almost like that's been stripped away. People don't seem to see the value in even doing a job that isn't a high-paying scale. Absolutely. And they suffer the consequences.  But they are the primary victims. That is, they will never learn that sense of pride. Which is where happiness comes from. You cannot be happy unless you have self-esteem. Self-esteem comes from achieving stuff. From knowing you can take care of yourself. From knowing that you're worthy of achievement. And you're capable of achievement. It comes from taking pride in your own actions and taking pride in your own character. If you don't have that self-esteem, you can never be happy. That self-esteem comes from work, primarily. The fact is that most of us spend, most of our effort, most of our time, most of our mental energy at work. Most of the achievements that come about, the challenges that we experience at work. If you deny somebody work by denigrating their job or by having a minimum wage, which denies many people a job, or by regulating industries, or by giving them welfare, or by giving unemployment insurance for 99 weeks, you're denying them the ability to be happy. That's how we should phrase it. That's how we need to make the argument. See, I was horrified by Guamni's 47% argument because, to me, the Republicans, if they stood for what I hope they can't stand for one day, should be going after that 47% and saying, you're the victims.  You want to be happy. You want to be successful. You want to join the middle class. Then free markets are the solution. You're being institutionalized by the left into this position of poverty, into a lack of self-esteem, into a position where your life won't add up to what you wanted to add up to. Join us because we can provide you with the opportunity, not anything more than that, the opportunity, the freedom to pursue your own happiness.  It's in our Declaration of Independence. That's the secret weapon, and we need to latch on to that, and we need to take advantage of that, and we need to go after audiences. I mean, it's tragic that those who claim to be representing the free markets have given up on so many Americans. Is that why you think the Republicans lost their audiences? Because they just weren't delivering the right message in terms of, you know, the American dream and prosperity? I think there are a lot of reasons why the Republicans lost. I was just talking to a friend of mine, and he said he's already produced a list of 20 different reasons. What are you talking about? But I think, you know, I think we had a lousy candidate. I think Mitt Romney was a lousy candidate, and we had lousy candidates across the board. I think our senatorial candidates were pretty horrible. I think we focus on the wrong issues. But the primary thing is the Republican Party did not present the American people with a vision. A vision of what this country should be, a vision of what this country can be, where we should be heading, what their leadership would create as an alternative to what we have today. What they presented themselves as, we're not Obama. We want all Obama's programs, we just want to do less of them, right? So we want to say Medicare, we'll just do it better. We want to say security, we'll do it better. We'll even keep some of Obama care, right? Don't worry, nothing is going to change. Just we're more efficient because we were in private equity and we know how to run a business. That's inspiring.  Ronald Reagan would have won this election by a landslide. And Ronald Reagan, in my view, was not as great of a president as many Republicans think, but he had a vision. He could communicate, he could inspire people to a goal. I think it's unfortunate he didn't use more of that in order to actually achieve some of those goals. But that's what was missing here. There was any kind of projection of where we're heading. What fundamentally was Romney different than Obama on? That was never really made clear. And even Paul Ryan, who I have a huge amount of respect for and I like a lot, in his vice presidential debate, it's as if he was muzzled by the Romney campaign. He couldn't even say a lot of the things that I think he would have. I mean, why didn't he talk about Medicare? He's got a really interesting proposal about Medicare, not as radical as I'd like it to be. But it's the best proposal on the table about Medicare turning it into a, you know, just giving people a check and going to insurance markets and buy insurance for their health care in old age. That is good. That's better than anything else on the table. But he wouldn't say it because it's too upsetting. But that's the difference between, should be, between the Republicans and the Democrats. We believe in markets and we're going to facilitate markets and we don't believe government is the solution. And instead, he was a me too debate, yeah, I'm going to do everything the other guys want to do. So I think that's a big part. You know, we could talk about social issues which I think the Republicans lose on and I think in key demographics and then, of course, there's immigration which I think they also lose on. So I think those are important but they could have overcome even that if they presented American people some kind of alternative to Obama, real vision for an alternative America. So you have this vision but here we are and we are at a state where obviously although, you know, Obama didn't win by huge margin but it was good enough, of course, to win. But you have a huge group of people who are already tied to all these entitlements. And so how do we, you know, shrink government when we have all these people who are on entitlements? You know, how do we overcome that? Well, first you have to convince the people on entitlements that it's not good for them. The fact is that if you went to kind of a voucher system the Paul Ryan plan healthcare would improve for the elderly. The fact is that Medicare is bankrupt. I mean, that's just a fact that somebody should say. I mean, it would have been great if Mitt Romney had looked into the camera and said to the American people Medicare and Social Security are bankrupt. They need major fixes. We can discuss what the fixes need to be but you can't pretend that these systems can go on the way they are today. Now, I believe they should be phased out. Obviously Romney doesn't, Obama, but at least admit it.  You're too young, but when Ross Perot sat down at a desk and put out these graphs and showed American people debt levels and how the economy wasn't doing well people took him seriously. I mean, he was this uncharismatic little guy behind the desk showing people graphs and he got 19% of the vote. If somebody would have just treated Americans as adults and you've seen that in the midst of the physical cliff debate nobody's treating Americans as adults.  Well, Paul Ryan did try to come out at and I see your face. He did before he was nominated for vice president but once he became part of the campaign he was finished. He was muzzled. No, I like Paul Ryan generally but he does try to deal with these issues straight on and that's why I respect that and I was very optimistic when Romney chose him as vice president but then he muzzled him. So what's the point? So, you know, my point is we need to confront these issues directly and American people are not stupid but if they hear the same thing then I'll go for the more consistent. Both of them want to say, so security, well, this guy's probably more honest about it so let's go with Obama. And look, so you have to convince them I'm at the very tail end of the baby boom generation. I was born in 61 so it's a very end, right? There is no way I'm going to get the kind of healthcare that people today in the 80s and 90s are getting. There's just not enough money in the world that will be able to, that will last. The unfunded liability for Medicare is 100, you know, it's close to 100 trillion dollars. That's me and that's you and that, you know, the younger generation. They're just not going to get it. So let's be honest, say they're not going to get it. What's an alternative?  They'll have to ration healthcare because that's the only way to deal with shortages which there will be. Let's be adult about it. Let's talk about it. Talk about solutions. I think morally, economically, the best thing is over the next generation or two phasing out Medicare and shifting to a completely private system where people actually save and buy insurance and use the private markets for it. I think healthcare costs will go down and I think a value will go way up and quality will go way up. But okay, there are other interim steps that may be a more political palatable like Paul Ryan's point. Let's take that as a first step. But you have to first talk about it and you have to tell the truth and you have to talk about the morality of it. How is it moral to place a burden on every child born today which is in the six figures? It's probably close to a million bucks when you take the full unfunded liability. How is it moral to say to every baby born you have a liability when you're born of a million dollars because these people want to have great healthcare before they die, particularly in the last few years? I mean that's just wrong. Let's talk about that. Let's talk about the fact that Social Security is a system that encourages people not to save. It's a system that teaches people that saving is a bad thing. It's a system that rewards irresponsible people and penalizes responsible people. Responsible people would save if there was no Social Security and they would have much more money if retirement Social Security gives them. Irresponsible people with no Social Security would spend all their money as soon as they made it. They benefit enormously for Social Security. How is that right? How is that moral? If we talked about that I don't think the grandmothers who are on Social Security and Medicare right now would say yes, we still support it, this is great. They'd say look, we paid into the system, we should get it but you know what, the system is wrong. Maybe we should start changing it. Maybe we should start reforming it. Maybe we should look to get rid of it to replace. Chile, the country of Chile, way down there in South America, privatized their Social Security system. You would think the United States of America could do it. The homeland of capitalism. You'd think we'd be able to do it. So I think it's an issue of communication. I think it's an issue of telling the story. It's an issue of having a story to tell and having passion and having conviction and having a moral argument, an ethical moral argument for why, how ideas are the right ideas. Going back to the book, this is the argument we're trying to make in the book. This is about morality. The free market revolution is a moral revolution. We need these ideas and even if you don't agree maybe you think I'm radical in terms of how free market I want to be. Even if you want to just move in that direction you have to start making moral arguments. We're playing, we've given the left a moral high ground and we're playing on their field and we'll never win. They've got the home court advantage. Yes they do. So have you been able to get your message to people on Capitol Hill? Because a lot of it is really educating the people who are sitting in Congress. See I have a very cynical view of politicians. As many of us do. I think politicians will do whatever they think will get them elected. I think they're very much put their finger into the wind. So I think we get the politicians we elect, we get the politicians we deserve. I think that we need to educate the people. I think it's the voters that count. I don't think politicians matter. If the voters say we want free markets the politicians will give them. It's not the politicians, ideologues, socialists. They're just giving the people what they want. Now Obama I think is more of an ideologue than most politicians. But he would have never got elected if the people were better. What we try to do is educate young people. Is educate students. Is educate adults. We even try to educate congressional staffers. You know the people that actually make their decisions for the congressmen. But they're young. The average age of a staff is 26. So we're running for example a program right now where we have a monthly talk, kind of a seminar with staffers. We give them free lunch. We're getting a good group to come. We're averaging, you know, 35, 40 people at every one of these. And we're trying to talk to them about the morality of capitalism as applied to, you know, healthcare and fine melas and policy, the economy. I just was there talking about the physical cliff. Talking about all these things with the idea that these young people are going to advise their congressmen so that hopefully we can move them or move the congressmen. They will also go into politics as adults. You know, that's why the staffers, they want to learn. Or if they don't go into politics, they will go to some think tank. Or they'll be involved. These are passionate people, passionate about the state of the world. Those are the kind of people I like influencing. When I go and meet with politicians, I just feel, you know, they say what I want to hear. They all love me when I'm there. And they say yes, yes, you know. And the fact is that today in Congress, there are more congressmen who have respect for Ayn Rand than ever before. There's probably at least three dozen of them. Do they understand it fully? I don't know. Do they agree with it fully? Probably not. But they've been influenced. So we've already had an influence through Atlas Shrugged and through Ayn Rand's ideas. I mean, in the Senate, there are a few Senators. But it's going to take a lot more than that. And it's going to take educating our... Teachers. Have you been able to get to any teachers? So one of the funnest programs we have at Ayn Shrugged, which we launched about eight, nine years ago, is what we do is we offer every English teacher in the United States, a high school teacher. If she'll teach Ayn Rand, we'll give her OEM free copies of the books. And we thought, you know, we start the program. How many teachers would want to teach Ayn Rand at Hanford? We ship 400,000 copies. Wow. We believe about a million kids read Ayn Rand in high school every year. And we think that changes the world right there. Because the fact is, what if you think of Ayn Rand, she changes minds and she influences people. She changes lives. How many times have you met people who've said, I've got Atlas Shrugged to change my life? There's no other book that has done that. No other book in American literature that's done that. So if we can get people to read the book, that's a huge step forward. We, for example, run the largest high school essay contest in the country. We have 29,000 essays. We write in high school about one of Ayn Rand's books. So we're getting to teach us through the novels. We also support a lot of university professors who are teaching these ideas, who support free markets, who support the small case for capitalism, and a number of university programs that do that today.  In a sense, being a counterpoint to what they're studying in the classroom. Propaganda. They get something very different from me. So you're hopeful. So when you look forward, your best guess, how much time do you think? I know we're in for a long time. So this is the metaphor I use. We're all on a raft, right? 300 million people. And the raft is heading towards this very large waterfall. Not a physical cliff. A real cliff, right? And not only are we being dragged by the river towards this cliff, but we've all got oars and we're all rowing towards the cliff. And you could argue that Democrats have big oars and Republicans have little oars, but it seems to me, unfortunately, that they're all rowing towards the cliff. It doesn't seem like anybody has the sense to row in another direction. I think there's a limited time before you go over the cliff, and then it's a tipping point. It really is too late, or it's very, very difficult then to reverse course. How long do we have, I don't know. You could argue we have a decade, maybe two. I don't think it's much longer than two decades. And I'm not talking about two decades to find some island where we can... I'm just talking about turning this thing around and starting to row in the other direction. We need a major shift. We need a change in the way Americans think about the world. And the Tea Party, I think, is a right first step, but it's only a first step. And we need this to be a massive movement to change direction, and it needs to happen soon because the more entrenched these forces get in Washington, the more government gets entrenched into our lives, the more we are corrupted by a bad morality and a bad philosophy and a bad way of looking about the world, the more difficult it is to replace. We're going bankrupt. So at some point we fall off the financial cliff, which is part of this bigger cliff. So we've got 20 years to turn it around. I guess what are the odds of how optimistic or pessimistic am I depends on the day you ask me. I don't think there's a science here. I think we have to be realistic. The odds are not good. It's how much pain. When I look at everything that's happening and people are getting used to the high gas prices and they're getting used to all of the regulations and they're getting used to doing with less and not even questioning the government, not even demanding that. It's like how much pain are people willing to pay? An infinite amount. People do not learn from experience. It's one of the great shocks. You're depressing me. People do not learn from experience. People do not learn from pain. People get used to pain. I mean, people, look at Europe. Look at Japan. Japan's been in a recession for 21 years and they've just elected a new government that's promised to do exactly the same thing as the governments have for 21 years, which hasn't worked. The definition of Einstein's definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting a different result. We have in Japan and the U.S. and you have an insane culture. We're nuts. And when you're insane, experience doesn't change anything. Pain doesn't change anything. This is an intellectual, ideological battle. We have to change people's ideas. You know, in the 19th century, the U.S. economy grew at 8%, 9%, 10% economic growth a year. We invented things like airplanes, trains, automobiles, electricity, endoplamia. Life's truly changed. Today, we get excited if we have a new app for the iPhone. The change today in terms of innovation is minor as compared to what it was back then. And we learn nothing and we've got used to it. So the economy grows at 1.5%. Fine, that's okay. As long as they have a job, I'm okay. Gas pipes go through the roof. We have inflation. The dollar today is worth what? 3 cents as compared to what it was years ago? Does anybody care? I don't think so. So, no, this is an intellectual revolution. We need to educate. We go back to educate, educate, educate. This is all about educating. And part of education is to educate people about what it could be like. What it could be like to be free. What it could be like without the government telling us what to drink and what not to drink. What to eat, what not to eat. What business to open. To demand that we get licenses to shampoo hair in California. We need a license to shampoo hair. We need every little bit of our activity to tell high tech companies that they're too big or too small or charging too much or too little. People forget the Justice Department went after Microsoft because they offered Internet Explorer for free. And that was monopolistic behavior because it was free. It's insanity what's going on in the world today. Our lives could be so much more richer and more fulfilling and happier and more successful if we had choices, if we could make decisions for ourselves. If mother government wasn't sitting on our shoulder dictating every little thing that we decided. If the paternalism went away, there's a vision of a world out there of free Americans striving to achieve their own happiness and their own success building an economy with no limits. There's no limit to economic growth. There's no limit how successful and how wealthy and how high that standard of living could be. There's no reason we can grow as fast as China is growing today if you believe the numbers. There's no reason we cannot be the most successful go back to being the most successful country, the most successful civilization in human history. It all goes back to what worked for us in the beginning in the principles that founded this country. With all the compromises the founders made, these were the right principles and the principles were freedom. Freedom means leaving people alone. Freedom means not telling them what to do. Freedom means leaving people to pursue the rational values that they believe will lead to their own happiness. Hopefully we will get there and we can get the oars going back the other way. We've got to fight. What alternative is there in life when you know what is possible? You can't give up on that. You've got to fight and again it's worth remembering the founders who gave, who were willing to put their lives on their property and their sacred honor on the line for freedom, for something they really believed in. If people like us who believe in these ideas are willing to put the same on the line then I start being optimistic and saying we can win. Thank you so much for coming and speaking with us. My pleasure. Thank you.