Hello everybody, Andrea Mayesky here with Dental L. I was talking about creating a group for a while on Facebook, a group where I don't know, it's just a lot more positive for dental professionals. So for dental assistants, for dental hygienists, for students, just a group on Facebook where you're welcome to ask questions, you're welcome to voice your own opinions. You know, within reason of course, I do want to have the group be as positive as possible because I just don't like seeing groups on Facebook where you will post a question, but it takes a week for the admin to approve it and then by then your question might not be needed anymore. As I mentioned in a video before, I was actually banned from a group by just simply sharing the fact that I have started my own independent dental hygiene clinic. I want to be able to have you all share your exciting experiences and let us know if you need help with anything, if you have a good experience, if you had a horrible experience. I don't want to say that we all have to be happy and smiling all the time, but to just obviously keep the negativity to a minimum, no calling people stupid, no wondering why somebody has a different opinion than yours. I want this to be a really good group. So feel free, if you would like to be a part of it, at facebook.com, slash groups, slash passion for dental. So I just sort of kept it simple and passion for dental says it all. You know, I think if somebody is doing a search for this, they will see that, you know, I want passionate dental professionals in this group who just want to ask questions, have questions answered, talk about things, you know, get excited if you're having trouble with anything. Let us know and then hopefully we can all help you out with that. So I just thought that I would hop on quickly to let you guys know that the group is now up and running. I just literally published it like a second ago, so there's even nobody in here yet. So let's see who's the first person to come on in. And happy holidays, everybody. Christmas is now over, Boxing Day is now over, and the new year is almost coming. So I will talk to you all very, very soon.


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Hi, this is Dr. Srijita Ghosh from Kolkata. Today's tutorial is made in a background of the corona pandemic which is going on across the world. I work in Apollo Glennigal's Hospital, Kolkata, in a very close-knit department which unfortunately is running in shift duties. It seems ages since we have worked together all of us, had our famous hangouts and have gone for conferences where not only have we studied but have had so much fun together. I was just going through my Facebook pictures, found a nice one. The picture was taken in my dear friend Dr. Surabhi's wedding a few years back. Hello everyone, today's tutorial is a very short tutorial on the MRI anatomy of the rotator cuff. The basic things that you need to know mainly as a beginner if you are starting to report MRI shoulder. Before we go to the anatomy of the MRI part, we need to know a little bit of things of the gross anatomy of the muscles of the shoulder joint. The rotator cuff is actually a group of four small muscles in the shoulder which originate from the scapula and attach to the humerus to provide dynamic stability at the glenohumeral joint. Without the rotator cuff, the humeral head would actually ride up partially out of the glenoid fossa, lessening the efficiency of the deltoid muscle. These rotator cuff muscles, they lie deep in the shoulder underneath the stronger muscles namely the pectoralis major, deltoid, trapezius and latissimus dorsi. Now, we have to understand one very important thing that the head of the humerus articulates with the glenoid fossa in such a way that at one point only one-third of the humeral head sits in the glenoid fossa. This allows a lot of mobility but at the cost of stability. Herein lies the importance of the rotator cuff muscles which provide strength to this otherwise unstable glenohumeral joint. The four rotator cuff muscles that we need to know are commonly remembered by the acronym SITS6, S for supraspinatus, in for infraspinatus, T for teris minor and S for subscapularis. While SIT these are the muscles which come from posterior aspect of the scapula, the subscapularis comes anterior to the scapula, coming to each of these muscles separately in isolation. The supraspinatus as name suggests originates in the supraspinus fossa. That is why the name has come supraspinatus. It traverses towards the greater tuberosity of the humerus going underneath the acromion and it finally attaches to the greater tuberosity in the superior facet. In isolation the main action of this muscle is abduction. After this we go to the next muscle infraspinatus. As the name suggests again it originates from the infraspinus fossa. Again it traverses towards the greater tuberosity of the humerus and attaches in the middle facet. In isolation the main action of this muscle is lateral rotation. It has to be remembered that both these supran infraspinatus they have a common nerve supply the suprascapular nerve originating from the superior trunk of the brachial plexus. Why we need to know this? If there is an injury only to the suprascapular nerve we will find denervation edema only in these two rotator cuff muscles which will give us an idea as to which nerve issue we have to look into. Then comes tyrosminus this is a very small muscle inferior to the infraspinatus along the lateral board of the scapula and it gets attached to the greater tuberosity in the inferior part. So superior middle inferior facet the tyrosminus attaches in the inferior part its nerve supply is separate axillary nerve and it helps in lateral rotation. So before we go on to subscapularis we'll just recap so the greater tuberosity of the humerus has insertion of three muscles supraspinatus superior facet infraspinatus middle facet tyrosminus inferior facet. Now comes the anterior muscle subscapularis. The subscapularis is the strongest muscle which originates from a depression in the anterior surface of the scapula the subscapular fossa and traverses underneath the coracoid process and gets attached to the lesser tuberosity. The main action is internal rotation or medial rotation. The nerve supply is the subscapular nerve which has two branches actually the upper and lower. They are from the posterior cord of the brachial plexus. Now coming to the MRI appearance of the rotator cuff muscles. Before we go to each of the muscles we have to remember few things. Proton density non-fat sequence is the best sequence to study anatomy of the muscles and tendons. Each of these muscles have to be studied in all planes. Each sequence has to be studied right from the beginning to the end and not only in that part where the pathology is. At certain planes each rotator cuff muscle or any particular part is best evaluated. So we have to note in which plane we have to see which part of which rotator cuff muscle. Now let's see the structures as we scroll the various sequences one by one. Slowly we'll go through the main rotator cuff structures and few of the important landmarks because this tutorial is based only on the rotator cuff. So starting with the coronal sequence anteriorly the muscle belly that we see is the subscapularis. We also see the important to bony landmarks here is the coracoid process. Short head of biceps is attached to it. We also see the bulky muscle superficially which is the deltoid. Here clavicular attachment of the deltoid can be seen. We also see the musculotendinous junction of the subscapularis. The subscapularis reversing under the coracoid. The musculotendinous junction actually at the level of the bony glenoid. How do we know that as we go posteriorly? We will find that at the level of the musculotendinous junction of the subscapularis is the bony glenoid which is coming when we are scrolling posteriorly. Here is the bony glenoid which is coming to form the glenohumeral joint. We can see the axillary recess here. Now we also see the supraspinatus muscle gradually forming the musculotendinous junction underneath the acromion. See how the musculotendinous junction is looking like. It is the area where we see linear hypo intent structures starting to form the jet black structure which is the tendon proper. As we move further we are gradually seeing the concentrating on the tendinous attachment in the greater tuberosity of the humerus to form what is called the footprint. We have to remember one thing though anatomy laboratories claim that SSD footprint is very large but recent orthopedic literature feels that actually the supraspinatus footprint is a very small triangular footprint and it is more importantly the larger anterior portion of the supraspinatus muscle which smalls a smaller cross-sectional area of footprint predisposing these anterior articular fibres to most strain and tear propagation. As we go further backwards coming the last muscle that we see the infraspinatus we also see the acromion here so nicely and finally the infraspinatus tendon and this kind of completes our entire coronal viewing right from anterior to posterior. Tearous minor muscle is seen better in sagittal sequence and we'll see it here after. Next we come to the sagittal section we start from the area of the muscle belly and gradually go towards the rotator cuff tendon attachment side. See how the muscles are looking all voluminous no fatty infiltration, normal signal intensity, good volume, gradually we also see the multi-pinate structure of the subscapularis, the supraspinatus, muscular tendinous junction appearing gradually underneath the acromioclavicular joint, then the area of conjoined tendon which is interdigitating fibres of both supran infraspinatus which we call the conjoined tendon and finally the infraspinatus tendon we can also see the tearous minor muscle actually over here so the humeral head, acromion and underneath is the entire what is called the rotator cuff snugly hugging the humeral head, subscapularis, supraspinatus, conjoined tendon, infraspinatus and here tearous minor. In the sagittal section we also see a specific area called the rotator interval just beneath the coraca humeral ligament above the subscapularis. This is the area where we see early changes of adhesive capsulitis, this area will be separately dealt in a different tutorial. So this is how we view the structures sagittal sequence section right from muscle belly to the rotator cuff finally we come to the axial sequence from top to bottom this is the acromioclavicular joint now the muscle belly that we have seen here superficially is the deltoid this structure is the supraspinatus and parallel to the axis is the supraspinatus tendon showing hypointense signal of a normal tendon this is the coracoid process this is actually the area of the rotator interval the SGHL area seen a little intraarticular biceps is seen in that region actually. Now as we go further down we are seeing the muscle anterior to the scapular blade which is a subscapularis muscle followed by the jet black hypointense subscapularis tendon posteriorly is the supraspinatus muscle and the infraspinatus tendon also going towards the humeral head and the bicepital groove holding the biceps in its place. So axial is the best sequence to mainly see the subscapularis see the appropriate location of the biceps see the infraspinatus as we further go towards the axilla we can see the signal void of the axillary vessels the strong superficial muscles of the shoulder is continuously seen throughout which is the deltoid so this shows you how to see the rotator cuff muscles in all the sequences in continuity from muscle belly to tendon and back again back and forth. Before I actually end my talk a little bit of how these tendons actually look arthroscopically I have a few pictures from my orthopedic coli arthroscopic picture from the posterior viewing portal we have to remember that arthroscopically in the intraarticular location the tendons are not delineated as separate structures due to the capsule but if we view carefully we can understand that the anterior fibers and the posterior fibers can be seen and they can understand where the supraspinatus is and where the infraspinatus begins. We have to remember that this picture where the rotator interval is the tight big structure which we have seen along the boundary is the subscapularis in this picture we also see the intraarticular biceps and the pony glenoid this is the area where we expect the intact supraspinatus and infraspinatus remember this is the area of the footprint per se the footprint will be only exposed when there is a tear so before we end our tutorial the salient points that a beginner has to remember firstly we have to have an understanding of the normal anatomy the gross anatomy of these structures before we know the MR appearance PD non-fact sequence is the best sequence to study anatomy we have to study each structure in all the planes and each sequence has to be run right from the beginning till the end and not only focusing only on the area of pathology remember this is very important then we also have to know how a normal muscle looks like how a normal muscular tendinous junction looks like how a normal tendon looks like what is the normal signal intensity then only we can differentiate what is tendinosis what is the tear so for that we have to keep seeing normal cases to understand the abnormal and lastly this is a request before interpreting the MRI please have an idea about the clinical features of the patient the orthopedic examination finding if necessary talk to the consultant orthopedician as to what he feels because he has examined the patient and please have a look at the old radiograph if the patient has before starting the MRI interpretation thank you


What's going on everyone? Sam here with LaytonSportsGarbs Ripping 23 tops Chrome at Baseball Breakers to Light 12 Box Full Case Break Number 21 Random Team Stop So look again at your random results As always you can find those on the websites Under the Results tab As well as the link that's in chat So good luck guys, here we go See what we've got here See some fire See Super, dude Still have not pulled a Super yet I'm a bot for that You Darvish, Zekiel Tovar, Albert Pujols Garrett Mitchell Rookie, Jordan Walker Rookie And Javier Asad Rookie On your refractors Bo Nailer, Midi Diamonds, Purple 299 Guardians, I'd say Green Gunner Henderson Youthquake 299 Teal Lava to 199 Mikey Stremski God Black and White Midi Diamonds, Steel Walker On the auto that's going to the Tigers Congrats in Detroit, again exclusive to Breakers to Light Christopher Morel, Bass Auto, Congrats Cubs This guy out of here, Adley Rushman Youthquake I'm giving Shane a yellow Shane's getting a yellow now Shane brought you in Do it too You see what he said I was going to say it's not wrong I hate that you're right It's pretty trashy Like you said to me myself Breckman, Aranda Rookie Toglio Rookie Joe Ryan Steven Kwan Criminal, that's Steel Walker Is in that uniform Bubba Thompson to 199 Boba Shet to 350 Pink Midi Diamonds And Gold, Alec Thomas Youthquake to 50 Dermis Garcia, Bass Rookie Auto for the athletics And Nolan Jones for the Rockies Black and White Midi Diamond Auto Breakers to Light exclusive Ash Young Youthquake Happy third birthday to you Shane He's got him He's got body bagged I'm just going to come back for him Spencer Steer, T.J. LaManu Fulton Varshow, Max Scherzer Blue Oscar, Cole Oscar Rookie to 150 For the White Sox Got a green Bobby Whitt Youthquake to 99 Poeple, Ronald Acunha Jr. to 250 Nice one there Everyone been in the Tigers dug out Sean in India to 250 That's so funny actually Bass Auto, Jonathan Aranda Going to the Rays, congrats Sample Used to 199, Steel Wave Auto Different world dude Different world Matthew Libertor Youthquake Hit the like button everybody Try to get to 100 tonight For Sam's birthday Then he'll do a back flip I'll get Donnie in here to do a back flip Alec Manoa Bregman, Jonathan Aranda Seya Suzuki Zach Wheeler Riley Greene Refractor Rookie Got Jeremy Peña to 399 Pink Greene to 99, Trish and Casas Youthquake Rookie Purple Mini-Diamonds Verlander to 299 Bass Auto, Josh Lester For the Tigers As well as a Jermaine Palacios Rookie Auto also going to the Tigers And Trish and Casas Youthquake He's a plastic in there Must be plastic mojo at this Starting off with a Christopher Morel O'Neill Cruz Tyler Stevenson, Gabriel Morena Hawaiian brand Sweet Maui Onion Kettle That sounds awesome Miguel Vargas, Cade Cavalli That is a Hunter Greene 299, Greene Greene Tyler Freeman to 99 Rookie for the Guardians Purple Mini-Diamonds Wilson Contreras to 299 Purple Mini-Diamonds Auto Going to the Aids That's Dermis Garcia 299 and Blue Ray Wave Oswald Paraza For the Inks to 150 And Hunter Greene Let me give you this too Josh Lester no longer a Tiger 0 for 5 in his career in Jermaine Palacios He's never played a game Spencer the poor, poor Tigers fan Good Lord Fernando Tatsis Jr. drew Waters, Alec Minoah Max Meyer Rookie Patel Marte Non-Blue Blue Wave to 75 William Donis Gold Yvonne Herrera to 50 Wanderfranco negative Blue Yanar Diaz That'll be 50 of 150 That's going out to the Astros on the true blue And Bass Auto That's your steer, congrats Reds Nice one there As well as a Corbin-Carol Youthquake Solid overall Had to throw some other Tigers in I get it, Riley Greene is the only thing we have going for us That's funny We had Zach Short last year Selby Simeon Gerard Encarnacion, Rhys Hoskins Kyle Stollers refractor Rookie Oswald de Cabrera refractor Rookie Lusonar Oscar Gonzalez to 125 For the Guardians of Rookie Seat to 350 Fuchsia Minidiamonds Green George Kirby Youthquake to 99 Mariners Black and White Minidiamonds Otto Bone-Nailer There you go Guardians, again exclusive to Breakers Delight And True Blue Auto David Hensley To 150, going to the Astros He might have the nicest SIG in this year's class This signature is awesome Rats on that Houston Kate Cavali Youthquake That's pinch-hittered NLB history Pinch-hitting Legend It's very true Very true, Shane It is awesome Try to get an idea of what's in there too When you first open them Peter Lanza, Taylor Ward Jose Miranda Trishon Kossas refractor Shay Langlears, Gunner Anderson Nice Rookie's in that Green Bone-Nailer to 99 22 of 99 for the Guardians Going to the Cardinals Bryce Harper, Image Variation Nice one there for the Phillies Rats on that Philadelphia That's really cool David VR Base Auto for the Giants And Jordan Groeschans Black and White Minidiamonds Auto Going to the Marlins And Brett Beatty Youthquake Entomology Redemption Who was it? 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Justin Steele On the Base Auto for the Cubs Very nice hit there Cubs and Purple Buddy Kennedy to 250 Going to the D-Backs As well as a Max Meyer Youthquake And Aqua Green Weevil There you go Aqua Green Weevil There you go We are investing in Aqua Green Weevils here at LSC Bobby is leading that charge Kodaisenga Mike Grove Cal Stevenson Dansby, Stanton, and Maddles That is going to be Zach Wheeler to 299 for the Phillies Yes, he can get you like a nice E-Guy Rosario or something, Trab Negative, Christopher Morrell, Rookie for the Cubs Purple Minidiamonds Kodaisenga to 299 Congrats, Metz Base Auto, Dermis Garcia again That'll be going to the A's Purple Minidiamonds Auto, Corey Lee To 299, going to the Stroes Congrats, Astros And a Cal Mitchell Youthquake for the Pirates Two to go, Spencer Steer Musgrove, CJ Crone D.L. Hall, Rookie Anthony Rizzo, Zach Gallin That is a, ooh, Super Fractor Let's go, dude There it is, Super Fractor Oh my god Super, Brian Bayo to 299 Starling Marte, Negative It is going to be a Green Beaty to 99 We're going to do the Super Last, of course Max Meyer, Youthquake E-Guy Rosario Congrats, nice one there There you go, Trab And Super Fractor, Ichiro! Oh my god One of one!  Thanks again for the fill Coming up next, I believe we have Sapphire


Welcome back into the original gangsters podcast. I am your host Scott Bernstein along with my partner in crime my co-conspirator Jimmy Bucci Lotto the doctor. Hi everyone This week we are very very excited to bring in Pulitzer prize winning author Podcaster just an overall media superstar Jake Halpern who is the host of the Acclaimed deep cover podcast. They're in season two. We're gonna focus on season two, which is called Mobland and it goes into a Corruption investigation in Chicago that that targeted the Chicago outfit and their reach into the Cook County Political machine legal system and so forth. There was a four-year plus investigation the Started in the early 80s didn't you know in terms of the Cases everything didn't get adjudicated. I don't think until but you know into the 90s One of the biggest undercover operations in American history, if not the biggest and Jake is is taking the audience in this on this fascinating Crazy compelling journey In in podcast form where you're hearing it from the the horse's mouth if you will Bob Cooley Who was one of the mob lawyers that was involved in this and wired up Jake? Thank you for joining us. We are honored Oh guys, it's great to be here. Thanks for having me on the show So why don't we just dive into the deep into the ocean on deep cover? So first season was about a Political drug Intersection it actually had some basis in the city Detroit With an FBI agent that was undercover in a biker gang and then eventually ends up with Money that's going to Panama and Noriega and it was crazy But didn't have a ton of traditional Italian organized crime Season two. It's it's quite And I say this in the most positive ways that you're engulfed in in OC And in in Chicago OC always Crosses over with politics So tell us how you how you came across Operation Grey Lord and wanting to do this as your second season yeah, so I finished the first season of the podcast and was looking to do an undercover story and There's actually I guess I'll give her a plug Jerry Williams has a it's a former FBI agent who has a Podcaster she interviews She herself is a former FBI agent and she's interviewed by 200 or 250 former agents She almost she basically debriefs them So I called up Jerry and I said If you were me, what would you do next? You've you've talked to so many FBI agents and she said check out Grey Lord And it's kind of said what you said at the beginning biggest undercover operation ever In Chicago in the corrupt court the corrupt court system in Cook County So I started talking to Terry Hague Who was the guy that went undercover in that and that? Operation and and for complicated reasons. I wasn't able to eventually do the Grey Lord story But along the way he said Terry did he said, you know, you got to talk to this guy named Bob Cooley Bob Cooley was a mob fixer He was the guy the mob relied on if if one of their hit man got in trouble for murder And they needed to get him off and bribe a judge Bob Cooley was the guy that hire he he he was the interface between the outfit in the political system and He's got quite a story to tell and he basically betrayed the mob You should talk to him and you know usually these guys want something you call them up and they you know And I get it they want they want to cut of the action or there's not that much to be had in nonfiction storytelling But I think I must call Bob on the right day because I called him that first time and he just started talking And he didn't stop for the next nine months And I've never met Bob in person. I've reported on his activity both as a fixer for the outfit as well as a Cooperator, but would you say I mean if someone asked me to just kind of describe him and I'm interested in if my my description from kind of a Third person fits your description as a first person that's worked with him I would say like this guy came right out of central casting from You know Hollywood if you wanted to put together what like kind of a Slick but kind of sleazy mob attorney Looks and acts and talks like it's like to me Bob Cooley kind of fit that and I say that both kind of In a positive way and I guess also to a negative way because you could take it that way No, I mean it's like it's one of these things too is like does life imitate art or does it art imitate life? Like is this the way he is or is this the way he thinks he should be to be the mob fixer? But totally and he made a point of pride and never wore a tie because he said, you know I didn't have to I was Bob Cooley He wore a gold chain when he went to City Hall he parked in the mayor's parking spot Kind of like hey, I can park here if I want that's awesome He would take his dog everywhere any restaurant. He went he would you know, but it was a fancy joint You know, he takes the dog in it's all part of his advertising brand that the rules don't apply to me He's doing this all to impress and attract a certain type of clientele, which is the organized crime set now What's interesting about bomb is he's not Italian guy. He's an Irish guy who comes from a family of Irish cops and his dad By all accounts was as straight as they come had studied it to be in the priesthood was a completely honest cop and in a police department that wasn't necessarily known for that and Bob and then Bob had some brothers who were lawyers who were also straight and Bob was basically, you know the black sheep of the family He was getting in trouble with the nuns at the Catholic school since like, you know as soon as he could go to school and he really tilts off in this other direction where He gravitates towards the mob. So in some ways when you look at his background It's unlikely, you know that he that he goes into this line of work and presents as he does But I think that's what makes him interesting also Let's talk about what this bus netted when you're talking about Almost a hundred public officials being indicted in this case Almost all of them in federal court and and most work were convicted I mean, that's that's mammoth Yeah, so so that's absolutely right now just to kind of be clear here that there's ends up being two separate undercover Investigations the first is gambat that that's the one that you're talking about that has something like a hundred indictments and it's huge and it Then then comes gambat which is the one that Bob was involved in now Just to kind of it kind of lay the groundwork for some of your listeners who may be less familiar with it What happens enough and Grey Lord, which is the one that comes first with a hundred indictments? Basically Cork cook County is totally corrupt. I mean you get a parking ticket.  They will pay off the judge There's not is it's an understanding if you can afford it. You are going to circumvent justice So what Grey Lord does is they get this squeaky clean? Former prosecutor named Terry Hake who's just had it with how corrupt the system is and he flips over and starts posing as a dirty Defense lawyer, but he's really working with the FBI and he really brings the house down on a lot of this Everyday corruptions going on in the court.  It could be me knowing nothing walking in there. Oh, don't don't pay that ticket I just talked to this guy here. So after Grey Lord happens There's like a hundred indictments the system does get significantly cleaned up But what doesn't happen is that the mob has its almost own Protected system of corruption that has like something of a firewall around it and it does not go down in Grey Lord and the mob Continues to be able to use this system to protect its own to protect his hitman when they get in trouble to protect its bookies And so what Bob does and it's kind of the second act of the story and in Gambat is One day he walks into the prosecutor's office Totally off the street and it just a random day and says in effect You may think you have changed the system with Grey Lord But let me tell you the mob guys are still operating with impunity and I can help you change that because I am the mob's fixer I know where all the bodies are buried proverbially I know how it happens and I will help you bring it down And so the feds are intrigued but they're also like really I mean it's the guy I talked to said it was like Does this guy have a Messiah complex? This is the prosecutor. I've talked to who met Bob He said he said does this guy have a Messiah complex maybe but who am I to say no to the Messiah? So he was so just intrigued enough that he that he let Bob keep going because if what Bob was saying was the truth It could really kind of dismantle the mob's chokehold on on the city government And this is corruption in the city of Chicago. I mean, I know I'm stating the obvious here, but I mean this dates back hundred years With with you know the kind of pay-for-play quid pro quo between the streets and and the the halls of power In Illinois, Chicago Cook County um, and I want to touch on the actual individuals that formed that said firewall the the Chicago outfit had at least two guys if not more that were fully initiated mob members that were either alderman's or people in City Hall and the two that I'm Thinking of right now are Pat Marcy and John dark John Diarco And Pat Marcy's real name was a Pesquale Marchione and he Americanized it. Yeah, and he was You know if Bob Cooley was the fixer from the lawyer point of view Pat Marcy was the fixer in City Hall That's right in the in the halls of power and Pat Marcy was the guy that that Bob Cooley was answering to And in fact Remember I told you the story about how Bob was you know the gold chain and the no tie and you know walking his dog into the Restaurant, I mean Bob is aspiring to have the kind of organized client crime clientele That's what he wants But his big break comes when he meets this guy Pat Marcy that you mentioned Pat Marcy You know as far as I can tell we were talking about this a little before when I'm Mike but These guys in that business cards that laid out exactly what their position was But I think Pat Marcy was the mobs political boss if the mob needed Whatever it was a case fixed or a law passed or a judge in a position Marcy was that guy and so when Bob has a chance to meet Marcy for the first time Bob realizes if I can befriend this guy I'm I'm gonna be in I'm gonna be the mobs, you know go-to guy This is of course well before Bob flipped and that first time that he meets Marcy Marcy says Yeah, can you fix this case with this hitman's on trial for murder? And Bob fixes the case and that becomes thus becomes Bob's Kind of rise as as a lawyer that Marcy and the other outfit guys can count on And Marcy let's let's let everyone know Marcy had quite the auspicious Debut in the underworld as a henchman for the one and only Al Capone So I mean you're talking about a guy that's roots were you know planted Firmly at a time when Chicago outfit was on the rise Yeah, that's I'm you know, I'm interested. Do you say that because that's what I do you think that's true? My research has told me that to be the case. Yeah, I mean you I think you would know better than me I know that I'd heard that from Bob and other people But I could never tell you know, was that apocryphal was this or is this or was this real? No, I mean, you know and pat uh as we were mentioning He ran he was an alderman for the first ward Uh ran the first ward, which was downtown chicago meaning like yeah, you were you're talking about interfacing.   I'm not sure the what what pat marcy's official title was it's interesting because usually at least in the united states the point is to to find someone in politics who you can Corrupt or bribe and then they they go along but to actually have a made member Be a public official that that's pretty extraordinary. I mean, I mean sometimes that happens in like palermo Like with the Sicilian mafia, but but that's pretty extraordinary in the united states I think chicago is probably one of the only case studies where I where I can think of I mean maybe new york at some point But really chicago is the only example. I can think of where made guys are also public officials There's like this integration. It's pretty interesting. I mean in detroit. We had I know i'm digressing here In detroit, we had william buffalino senior who was depicted in the movie the irish men Ray romano played him and that he was a union boss and a very very very esteemed Criminal defense attorney, but he was also a made member of yeah, he never he never held he never held public office He never had public office, right? But he was he was a definitely a political figure for sure and you know it makes sense if you think about it because if you think about how how the mob eventually Goes down or takes this huge blow. It's because bob culley who was not a made guy He was a he was a hired gun. They were subcontracting the workout to bob culley, right? He was this irish guy who was a cop from a family of honest cops You know etc etc and they're paying him to do their work and so Event and it's eventually bob that betrays them. It's not pat marcy that betrays them So it makes sense to me that if you could Have your guy on the inside be You know a member of the tribe so to speak, you know a made guy who you can really count on that it's a safer bet It's just you're right james. It's so bold to think That that could happen and in fact it was funny. I think this was I think this was diarco seniors Uh campaign slogan was I'm sure I read this in the paper His when this is johnny diarco's father who also had mob ties They jokingly said his campaign motto was vote for diarco and no one gets hurt This isn't like this isn't like a secret. This is not like, you know, no one knows what's going on This is more or less happening, you know in plain sight and so when that happens Yeah, I mean there's not even a pretense of of kind of you know Riding the system of its of its uh more You know unsavory elements. It sounds like it reminds me of I know jake has some experience with uh, I think graphic novels If i'm not mistaken, but it reminds me of uh gotham doesn't this whole setup sound like A gotham city like a comic book And that cooly is uh two-face, you know, um, I can't think of what the character's uh, what two-face this character that harvey Dent harvey dent That's what it reminds me of Yeah, it's it's it's got you know, we know these stories. I grew up in buffalo So I'm I meant that had they had their own mob stories But I remember growing up and hearing the stories about you know, was the Was the 1960 presidential election fixed and dead people voting and you're kind of listening to what you're thinking like That sounds far-fetched and then as you start digging into this You come away thinking no, this is totally plausible. This is a system that is fundamentally corrupted Um and and bob kept the interviews of me. He said you're so naive. You're so naive because I would I'd be like really but I think I I I think it was A little hard to wrap your head around just how Just how dirty and corrupt it was And I think it it also demonstrates If if you look at uh, what bob cooly did for the government that yeah, it was in the loop It was downtown clearly but The corruption also spread out into the neighborhoods. I mean, I I know Where a lot of my research dovetailed with bob cooly was with marco demico Uh, the consigliary of or the reputed consigliary of the chicago mafia for a long time recently I believe he died from covet Um, and was uh, no-nose defranzo's top advisor They were all they were out in elwood park now. Yeah, it's still cook county But it's not people that know chicago You know downtown chicago is in an area called the loop which is you know The hustle and bustle of the loop you you start getting out into the neighborhoods. It's a different feel and although I don't believe demico went down in in gray lord or gambat he was Collateral damage, I guess because he was going to cooly to fix things when cooly was working for Uh, the the government and and was wired up, uh, and and ended up sending demico to prison for about a decade Yeah You know, uh, so it just it shows you that it was more than just pat marcy and and john d'arco Uh, d'arco in the loop. I mean you had other people utilize clearly. I mean, you know the outfit had, uh Um Get out of jail free card, I guess Right through people like cooly and marcy and you know anybody that had access to to the uh, you know to the administration of the Outfit or had friends that could help people within that outfit orbit They were gonna, you know go to the well as much as they could yeah, I mean I almost started to think of it from like a A kind of corporate standpoint, you know like corporations offer their employees benefits, you know, they offer them health They offer them dental child care, etc Like what the outfit is offering is But the most fundamental protection you could have which is to say if you join our Organization and you you know, you you you do what we tell you to do And you you you collect the street tax you pay you're part of this system Our system and in our system if you get in trouble, we got a guy We got a few guys who are down there in city hall and they will make sure That you don't get in trouble and you are safe you are bulletproof with us And so on one level it obviously helps the organization function so that they can do all these illegal things Whether it's you know gambling or prostitution or extortion But it's also a huge incentive for like for recruitment and for morale among You know the corporations members if you will if they know oh if I stick with these guys I'm set because they've got pat marcy and they've got john diarco and they've got bob cooly And so I think that that's one of the important things that that happens as a result of this is when bob is successful and The mob loses its ability to have this chokehold this corruption They also could no longer offer their members that same level of guarantee and protection that if you you stick with us They're going to be safe And so I actually think that Helps explain how one of the reasons that You know the the outfit comes out of this weakened After after gambat you can probably make and I shouldn't say probably you can make a direct link as I think about it from gambat and gray lord To family secrets, which was the what I wrote my book about which was the the case that came down in 2005 and really decimated the The top half of or top half of the administration at least in the chicago mafia and You know they had the the first ever Chicago mob cooperator and nicky slim calabrese who came from the 26th street china town crew and it makes you You know piggybacking off of what jake just said it makes you think that if that had been Before gray lord and gambat and guy and even if it wasn't mars marcy and diarco It was guys that had replaced them and marcy and diarco hadn't gone down in the whole you know The whole thing had enough Falling apart maybe nicky calabrese never becomes the The the star witness you think of dominos and maybe and maybe the operation family secrets never happens Yeah, I know it's cliche, but you think of the dominos falling. I mean that's what i'm like visualizing And and I think I want to hear your comment on another thing and part of this is just amplifying What we've already said but given a little more color to it You look at historically the top bosses in the chicago outfit even till modern times and this is now 25 years plus removed from gray lord and gambat and uh your 17 years removed from when one family secrets uh first dropped All the top guys With some exceptions most of the top guys They die free men With very few criminal convictions I think of guys like tonia cardo Yeah, and and the most recent boss to pass away. John. No nose to fronzo um Yeah, there's the joey lambardos and the jimmy marcellos which are exceptions guys that died in prison But you know These are guys a cardo lasted 40 40 plus years on the throne uh defranzo lasted 20 30 years on the throne and and these guys were like Tiptoeing through the landmines Yeah, and and the reason why is what you what you find out in season what you discover that jake You know so brilliantly delivers to you in season two of deep cover with mobland and it tells you why in the chicago outfit people were were protected. I mean and more than just You know normally saying in the mob you're protected. You're with us That that can really only go so far in most mobs that that kind of once you leave the street That protection's gone But in in the outfit that it's there. They're there in some ways. They're a unicorn because they were able to keep it Going in that direction for someone Yeah, that's that's right. I mean I I think that it gets me thinking too about one of the central storylines that we follow in this and this is It is why bob did it so when he comes in right? He's this he's this hired gun Who's who's their lawyer who you know, they say fix this case and he knows to the judge and he does it And he does this well for a long time until one day when he walks into this prosecutor's office and kind of out of the blue and the fbi Basically vets him the way that the cia would do if a soviet defector walked in off the street And he like who is this guy do we trust him and in fact I talked to these guys and they had no idea why he had done this They said Was he a double agent? Was he a mole was he had he was he dying of cancer had he lost his mind? um And in the end they actually can't come up with a good reason for why but when they put the wire on him he does start Bringing in audio of all the guys. He says he can get And so they have to I talked to this one agent Steve bowman and this is like 30 years later. I said steve. Why did he do it? And he says, you know, I I still can't tell you why And so there's all these conspiracy theories about Did he who did he owed money to it and what it was doing? Uh, why did he do it and did he have ulterior motives? Um, I will tell you why I think he did it I think he did it and I don't really actually I kind of alluded to this in the podcast, but I mean I think he did it because He works his way up as high as he can get as an outsider as this irish cop that he was But he's stuck That in the end taking orders from marsy and marsy says basically in no uncertain terms You'll do what you're fucking told And and and bob Strays from that a few times And they threaten him and he has to leave town and he They in the end that's the bargain that bob isn't made. That's the bargain these guys make is it's like the military It's a chain of command and bob Feel stuck in that and he also gets angry that marsy Owns him the way he does And I think that for bob He's a gambler and he's impulsive And my personal take is that when he walks in in that office that day as much as anything It's a i'm gonna hit the nuclear button I'm gonna take us all down.  You can't tell me what to do And he never came out quite and said that but he said it in different ways That that's I think actually Why he did it and I think that he also you know, he'll go on and it's true He said he wanted to clean up the city and I think there was truth to that too But I think that there was ego there and I think that in the end it was a power move The only problem for bob, of course, was that it blew up his entire life And he's been hiding more or less ever since Does he does he think that would but he still thinks it's worth it His decision. Does he ever have did he ever have regrets?  I'm like, oh I'm the baddest Scrape through it. Yeah, totally. I'm gonna up scraping and scraping and scraping till you get to the truth. Totally. And look, we are Fair enough. We all have our shtick. I have my shtick. You have your shtick with these guys No shtick is like it's it's thicker requires more And you know And when I went out and visited him, he said, you know, there was kind of no hiding how he lived He lived this really modest existence with his like, you know, stockpiled pringles and v8 And the floor of his room and he said you you see how I live and And basically he says Yeah If I could go back I would have been crazy to do what I did and I won't give you all the details of this conversation But basically after nine months of kind of all this is in this grade and He's just like left with this this in this room and in this place of of of pretty profound regret Yeah I actually never thought we would get there because it's it's at odds with this other story that we he started off telling It what did his family make of his you're saying his family, you know, they're a family of cops Uh by all indications on you on the straight and narrow Uh, what was their assessment of their relative brother son when he's you know, the most well known flashy mob lawyer in chicago Oh, so that's that's that's a that's a question that I was really interested in and what I did is over the course of the Whatever 10 months that I was reporting it. I interviewed maybe five of his siblings And and they all had different perspective and I'll show you two that I thought were most interesting He had another brother who was a cop who was a clean lawyer I mean he would have been a prosecutor and a well-respected prosecutor and then he became a clean criminal defense lawyer And the crazy part is these two guys bob and his brother the clean I'm blanking his name denis now denis who was the clean criminal defense are they worked in the same office? They shared a desk um, and I just thought like isn't this kind of the perfect uh, kind of Metaphor whatever for the problems of the system. There's these two brothers Sharing a desk one is clean one is dirty. They can't disentangle each other And what denis said to me was that in general He presented the guys that were bribing because the guys like him had to work three times as hard to get the same results And so that was frustrating to him. I said, did you ever try to talk bob? He said no, I wouldn't have made a difference I wouldn't have been able to talk bob out of what he was doing and I didn't want to know half the things he was doing um, the other side of that is when bob flipped and it became public that what bob had done bob left town and denis his brother who we shared the desk with Was deeply worried that the outfit was going to exact revenge on him because and the fbi said Oh, the the the mob doesn't usually do that and they don't go after relatives and and that is historically true But if you're going over your wife and kids like, you know So that was the that was one seven the other sibling that I interviewed in the podcast I thought was just so interesting was a guy who Was a yoga instructor in vermont. He worked at a a gay run yoga retreat center I mean, he could not have been more different than than bob and and he had a really Interesting thoughtful and pretty profound take I thought on who bob was and how bob ended up the way he was he said to me um He said at the very end of the podcast and he said the thing you have to understand about bob is He's capable of doing good things And he's capable of doing very bad things But the difference between the two doesn't matter to bob All that matters it is that he's someone that does big things That he's a man that matters And I was like wow that basically depicting an amoral character and so Trying to do my due diligence as a journalist I had the uncomfortable or I thought was going to the uncomfortable moment of reading this quote back to bob Like that his brother said which you know you've got to do And so I this is when I was in person and I kind of I was nervous about this Like, you know, who wants to be relaying this news from one guy's brother to the next and I said Bob, what do you make of that expecting bob to get hot under the collar? and bob said well In a sense, he's right I can see how he says this And that was one of those moments where sometimes like the shtick with bob and he would just kind of Just be honest about things so It's a long-winded answer But the bottom line is by talking to the siblings bob comes into focus in a way that is so much more Three-dimensional than when I would have just talked to him for however many hours I did Doesn't that description though that his brother gave Kind of answer our question about what the motivation was I mean, he wanted to do big things. Yeah, I mean, I thought the same thing. Yeah, that's he did big things on on both sides of the Of the line. Yeah. Yeah, I mean, I'm not a psychiatrist, but I'm a criminologist not a psychiatrist, but I was thinking of Exactly what you're talking about and and what jake described is like He's already the big mob lawyer and it's like people who are wired that way. It's like, okay. What's next? What's next? I've I'm here. I'm doing it. I've already mastered this thing What's the next big thing and now and now you're going to take them down your 25 years 30 years removed What do people think when they think bob cooly? They think I mean even in and jake and the deep cover people at pushkin are are taking the the notoriety aspect of it and you know Putting it on steroids so everybody knows but even before even before jake and deep cover came around What was bob cooly known for he was known for this Yeah, what was known for it really wasn't the fact that he was a mob fixer attorney It was a mob fixer attorney who decided to cooperate to cooperate and and there was all these ginormous ripple and and let me just be clear about this. I feel like I I do have to say this um You know in in researching what bob did not taking bob's word for it But particularly talking into his two fbi handlers a steve bow and a marie dyson What he did took Not just enormous courage. I mean like kind of un unimaginable courage to go in because it Not just day in out week out month out for years doing this Um, it also took resourcefulness. He had to think quickly on his feet I mean he People have this idea of oh, yeah, he he became an informant now. This was a guy who was gifted as an undercover agent And who showed enormous courage and that's aside from the moral issue We can debate the morality of what motivated into the cows come home But you got it you got to give him that and you got to give him that the effect of what he did did Make a huge effort to clean up the corruption that was going on in the city And so the way that only way that I could think about this was to kind of compartmentalize these parts of the story and There's the last bit is the kind of why he did it and do we see him as a moral and a moral whatever and you can debate about that um But those other things do stand for on them on themselves and I I just feel like to give bob is a do That has to be clear You know, I want to bring something else up related to this. Um The way the system works for for the outfit and maybe jake or scott can speak to this This this probably also gave the italians leverage in the underworld In the sense that if you're african-american organized crime outlaw bikers latino organized crime You know that the italians are the ones that have the political connections And so I imagine pretty big equal. That's what I mean I suspect that that gave the outfit leverage to in the underworld over other Ethnic organized crime groups are just you know street gangs outlaw bikers. Uh, can either one of you speak speak to that? Scott you'd go first. Well, I'll say that I think the timing and the time frame of of uh, gray lord and gambad and what and what bob was doing um coincided with Uh, a time when the outfits power was waning right and I think it made that feather in their cap or that gun in their arsenal Uh having those people in city hall having those people in the first ward Being able to a puppeteer the way that they did Wasn't equalizing or it was a leverage point for groups that back in the 30s 40s and 50s and 60s Didn't have anywhere near the power of the outfit But as the 70s and 80s and 90s are coming the the pendulum is shifting a little bit and I'm digressing slightly, but I will say that what bob coulee did He cut that or what his cooperation led to Was cutting the head of the snake off and the head of the snake was pat marsy and and he's never been replaced and marsy ended up I mean The bus For all intents and purposes killed pat marsy pat marsy died Under indictment. I don't know if trial it started or it was about to to to start he died He had a heart attack during the trial right so um That that in so many ways Was the end of an era and it was kind of like a before and an after and and there's really i'm not to say that the chicago outfit doesn't have uh leverage points in local politics or In judicial systems. I'm not saying that it's a hundred percent gone. No, I think was was especially with local pd. Yeah local police department What's going on now in in cook county? Compared to what was going on pre Gray lord gambat and marsy's death It's not they're on they're in they're in different galaxies Yeah, so there there has been a major major change Uh from from bob coley's cooperation and I know I started answering one question Finished answering another one, but yeah, I know a natural segue to me. No, it's interesting I mean there there are obviously other factors that are weakening organized crime or I mean like There's off-track betting. There's you know, there's there's things that are like that are eating into what I mean because the My understanding is that gambling is where the outfit was making the majority of its money It's the wheel that it all spins around. It's it's it's it's a it's economy I mean really it's the gangland economy. Uh the the straw that serves that drink is illegal gambling Yes, that's that's that's my sense from talking to the prosecutors and and that's starting like You know, I think around the the time of the 80s and this is when off-track betting is starting to become More more profitable. Um, you know, they do have their hand in some of the casinos obviously, but um, I think that their profit potential was dropping anyway, probably and and so It's not just that that that that you know, these operations took them down. Um I think that the other thing to think then there's a separate question of you know Does the demise of the mob create other organized crime opportunities? I think that's kind of what what james is asking about And it makes me think of these like old antitrust cases where when they break the monopoly of these, you know corporate bohemists that it does It does open up the opportunity for competitors to come in They're not like we're never going to eliminate the the the demand that exists for the services that criminals offer, I mean, what you know That's why they what do they call prostitution the oldest profession. Um, and so I think that There's always going to be a market for it and no that that's the kind of problem That's the kind of whack-a-mole problem that the law enforcement always faces as you you bust one and then Another one is going to pop up and so yeah, the the outfit gets weakened But then, you know, it creates opportunities for, you know, mom and pop criminal a and b to to give a shot at it Yeah, uh, let me um Ask you a question related to future endeavors involving the deep cover brand Or as much as you could share with us I'm guessing because of the popularity of these podcasts There's been quite a clamoring for television and film rights Is there anything you can tell us about, you know, if we'll if we'll be if we will be seen a scripted version Uh of of the stories that you tell at any point on, uh, you know, there's a thing I can tell you that for season one, which is the story of the Detroit base FBI agent who infiltrates this drug smuggling ring And he's undercover for like five years and he works his way all the way up to the top where he's basically It's like noriega and control that story Uh, they are developing into a tv show now I can tell you also that, you know, you these things often die out, you know, typically die on the vine Who are you talking to here, jake? Yeah. Yeah, right. You know, I'm doing this for seven eight years. I've seen that Are you probably doing it longer?  I have a buddy out in hollywood assistant What is some like 10 miracles have to happen? Uh, we can get made so I think we're like two miracles in there But yes, I mean it could happen. Um But I'm not like I'm not holding my breath. Um, just because, you know, but I think it's interesting with with all the, uh, explosion of of the television streaming It that it what I will say that I it does seem to be slightly different now is that They're looking for content. It seems to me that that is world-based that can sustain an ongoing narrative um, and so you know If you just have a story that has like a very finite beginning middle and end versus a story that has a whole cast of characters Where you can follow them all and it's an interesting world. It's the latter that's gonna um, so anyway, I don't know, uh, that that's where that's at Are we doing a uh, are we in preparation for a third season? Yeah, I'm actually I have an idea that I'm presenting to the people at pushkin tomorrow. Um, you know, I want to be thoughtful about I don't want to jump the shark we've all we've all we've all been fans of Of tv shows or you know where you know What is melbrook saying in spaceballs god willing? We're all meeting spaceballs part two the quest for more money Nice baseballs reference great. Yeah love spaceballs So I don't I don't want to do that, you know, I don't want to like just you know kind So the idea that I actually have for three I I can't fully get into it, but it's a departure It's not a undercover agent. It's not organized crime. It is someone living a double life. It's a woman actually Um, so it's but it's a fine balance.  Um, plus, you know how it is You don't want to feel like you're just working at the widget factory where you're just you know You want to you want to kind of get excited. So we I've been With podcast with this kind of podcast. I mean There's this you know, I'm sure you guys have seen it. It's I got to feed the beast It's like feeding the parking meter and it's like keep the episodes coming because you get advertisers and stuff But when it's reported uh It takes time to report it and also You want it to be good, you know, um, and so I I'm resisting the temptation to just kind of like do the next one that that that the obvious choice because I want to be a story that i'm proud of and that feels like, you know The listener's not just thinking jesus guy's cashing it in and giving a shock, you know, I don't want to do that You know, we have uh conversations all the time scott and I about You know people that come out of the woodwork that want to come on our show And scott and I will have discussions like is was this person a big enough deal? Will our audience actually find this interesting and i'm not trying to insult anyone But but sometimes we we take a pass and uh, you know, we we we want because that quality we try to keep it as consistent As we can we don't want to be, you know, just slamming no someone over the head with something Yeah, like we if we wanted to We could do every we could do every episode on jimmy hoffa. I mean if we want to get right Yeah, uh, because we're we're such, uh, yeah, we're in the middle of the the whole hoffa Investigation here in detroit and i've written a lot about or we could do, you know We could do white boy rick, uh for for 20 episodes, but we try to um Mix in i mean obviously we both have our expertise Yeah, but we try to mix in as much variety as we can and i i always I go ahead. Sorry jake. We could say no, no, sorry. You finish I was going to say that I always have to check myself Because i'm such a nerd And if I get really excited about something a lot of times i'll go to i'll go to jimmy or i'll go to my girlfriend And i'll be like we should do an episode on this and they'll be like only you are interested That's great. You're the only person That's a beautiful thing about working with uh a friend who tells you the truth So I just I sometimes I have to ask myself like is this something that i'm I want to learn about or is it something that my whole audience would like to learn about Yeah, the thing that's cool about what you guys do is your stories are interconnected You know, it's like there's all these these kind of like it's almost like you know I love these novels these alan first spy novels where these Where the a small character in one novel appears in the other novel and then you kind of get the sense that the stories are all Delicately interconnected and I feel like that's the cool thing about The kind of stories that you guys cover is that there are all these connections So you can kind of come back to it and crisscross over it um Also to be honest with you and the people have pushed and probably wouldn't you know I feel like you're the business model of your about kind of podcast is just better because The hard part for me what I face is Is I have to go into this production period where I even if i'm racing it's going to take me You know six to 12 months to to to produce 12 episodes and in the in the in that lag period The feed goes dead and you hope that you know the listeners like it enough that they'll You know get back into it when it comes on but it's not ideal um I feel like there's almost there should almost be a model where You haven't you all you have a feed where you almost switch off like you tag team in and out But anyway, all i'm saying is for the listeners of your show. They know they know there's a steady I'm gonna get a show on You know regularly and I think it's a I think it's a big advantage It's so cool though that we're in a time now where long-form storytelling Uh is being embraced more than ever. There's more bandwidth and you know for people that love podcasts and I'm I'm I'm now making the opposite argument Uh, but you know people that love podcasts can just dive into something like you know deep cover Uh and just immerse yourself Uh in it's so it feels so multi-dimensional and visceral when it when a podcast is done right A long-form storytelling podcast is done right and you're all your senses are being stimulated and you're you're you're seeing it even though it's not Being shown to you on a screen you're seeing it Yeah, and the only way like a story like that in in the past would be told would be someone would have to get a book deal Right and you might not get a book deal and now we have this new this new medium You know where you could tell these great stories and you don't necessarily have to go through the gauntlet Yeah of getting a book deal and you can do them on you know, you can do them over 10 episodes or 20 episodes I got a little peek behind the scenes of the long-form Storytelling podcast when I was a consultant on crime town Um With the gimlet media people. Yeah, um, they did their first season on Providence, Rhode Island Their second season was on Detroit and I helped them with their Detroit stuff And man, I I gained such a newfound appreciation for what people like yourself and uh, my boy Zach Uh pointer stewart over that I worked with with uh on that It's just an in mark spurling. Oh just the the the craft. It's just to be to be able to do what you guys do It's there's a real craft to it and it's more than just splicing together interviews Yeah, I I mean, I think that I didn't even fully appreciate it but You know when I think about what it takes to produce what they do at pushkin to do it well I mean Here are those names right at the end of the episode You're like could all those people possibly be involved and most of them really are because they have original scoring They have an amazing musician that scores for television And it's actually listening to the podcast and scoring Kind of reacting to the to the content. There's someone finding archival sound. There's um fact check It's rigorously fact checked It's more rigorously fact checked than a lot of the other journalistic places I've written for And also they they pay me they paid me on the first season when I wrote about ned I flew to hawaii to meet this guy who was steve calish this huge smuggler. I was down in the came ins with ned I was I was in the back swamps of north carolina with You know seeing where the where they they came in in their area in this day and age It it's really rare that anyone will will put those kind of resources behind A nonfiction story and so I'm I'm I'm really grateful to pushkin that that they've done it. Um Honestly to be when you talk about that movie deal the first season My hope is that they make the the television series just so pushkin gets enough money They can say we we broke even on halperin's project Let's let's let him keep taking his travels because it's really hard to find anyone that will pony up to give you those kind of resources No, I know But if we if we have a little bit of time left, uh, can we can we ask you about the first season? We just tease it a little bit further. You know, we're we're basing detroit Even our audience is global. We got you know listeners on all five continents But just kind of tell us with the um or tell the audience How that story started in detroit, okay So I'm gonna I'm gonna start with how I how I'm gonna answer that question about I don't need I'm gonna start a step before that about how it came onto my radar So a guy that I know out in hollywood sent me a manuscript For a book. It didn't even have a a title page. It didn't have the author I didn't know if it was a novel or it was nonfiction It it just started something like, you know, detroit, you know, 1983 biker bar and it starts telling the story So I I start reading it, you know Just thinking all right what the hell was slow day at the office kind of thing And and what emerges in this novel is this tale of an fbi agent who's working fugitives in detroit And gets a lead on a guy named toby anderson who's a country music singer who's also a felon So he goes to this bar Where toby anderson is performing that night and he's up on stage And after he comes down from a set on stage he follows into the bathroom And grabs him and arrests him and brings him out of the bar And there's almost a huge battle gun battle of the bar and when they get anderson in prison They flip him and anderson basically starts telling him in so many words that there's this massive marijuana smuggling ring This is back in 83 that is like the amazon or the ups of marijuana smuggling bringing in Plain loads of hundreds of thousands of pounds of marijuana And it has big connections down to the camons and beyond it sounds like too crazy to be true But ned this guy who's just working fugitives who flips this guy convinces his bosses To let him go undercover and try to infiltrate this drug smuggling ring And he does this for the next five years working basically his way up So this is the story that's so I call back the guy that sent me this manuscript and I said Is this true like what the hell is this is this a novel is this nonfiction? He said no as far as I know, it's true I'll put you in touch with the guy who wrote it at the center of it Who's ned who's a retired FBI agent living in detroit So I hop on a plane. I fly out to detroit. He's now working as a as a private detective And he starts telling me the story and insisting that almost all of it is true Just a few names changed here and there and this became this year-long odyssey In which it turns out that in fact it was a drug smuggling ring And the person who effectively sat at the top was Manuel Noriega who was The president or the general that was running Panama and when this whole undercover operation gets blown open it leads to indictments Uh and uh an around about way to the invasion of Panama So the tagline was guy walks into a bar to make a routine arrest and it sets off a sequence of events that leads to international war So when I was like, this is crazy. And so I spent any way that the better part of a year Do interviewing and finding all the people involved in telling the story and that's season one of the podcast Yeah, so for for our audience that's from detroit and that's interested in all the detroit stuff we do Ned timmons Was a Detroit FBI agent for 25 years and he was considered the you know Numero uno in terms of guys that you wanted to send undercover to get the job done I've heard stories from a lot of different people in the office that you know net and this wasn't said in a negative way They're like, you know, neg ned march to the beat of his own drummer You know, he was kind of allowed to kind of do his own thing Because the work that he was doing was so different than the work. The rest of us were doing, you know, traditional Work in oc or or or work in Drug gangs or cartels or whatever, but ned was You know was was was really like there was kind of a mythology around ned and Then I would hear it On the other side of the some guys didn't like him, right? Well, you know some guys, you know I think there's always this Rub, yeah, you know people that are undercover undercover. Yeah, they look at them. Oh, they're glory hounds. They're glory hounds. They're cowboys They don't have to Uh, you know play by our rules. Yeah The guy that I was quoting sainty march the beat of his own drummer was saying it in a in a in a very Complementary. Yeah. Yeah, but yeah, I had heard some people that were just like not talking about ned per se But just talking about undercovers I kind of it's like I think in the military. They say the same thing about snipers or like they're certain they're pre medanas or whatever but ned was just known as you know Probably the best undercover agent that was working in that office at that time And uh worked a lot of different types of cases So I know he was working oc, but then he was also working bikers. He obviously did this whole thing that led to The noriega thing for younger people that might not know it You know, there's a famous line in a rick ross song. He says I knew noriega the real noriega. He owed me a thousand favors Yeah, not the rapper noriega, but no Rick ross the damper Ships out noriega. Yeah the dictator noriega was by the way was um To get in the weeds here. Was michael palmer involved in this case marijuana trafficker Yeah, he was in fact the full michael palmer store is one that I would love to tell. Yeah um He was he did know ned uh, and He was he was involved and there was that that the movie that was that the tom cruise movie that they that was kind of American American hustle. Yeah No, uh, uh, whatever American about about the cia very seal right american I gotta There was a moment where they started to look into him and not net one of the other guys the fbi agents. I talked to said uh, they got called into the boss's office and Uh, we're and there were two other guys there that didn't know where they were and they were told in no uncertain terms um You're gonna let this one go Yeah, I ask we one of our contacts was the head of the dea in detroit and I asked him one time having lunch About michael palmer and he was like he goes, you know michael palmer So he and I was like, well, I know I know of him I never met him personally, but I I mean the reason why i'm interested is I think you could connect him to the cia contra Thing and I and I think he was sending guns down south bringing marijuana back up and and he was possibly or likely a national security asset There's there's there's a whole story to that and I and I I Haven't I don't think that guy's ever gonna talk, but I like I hold out hope that maybe he'll change his mind He's getting older yeah And I don't know whether he's still working in some Copa I don't know, but yes, he's There's no question. I think at this point that he had some role in all this Yeah, I'm eager to get ned uh In studio to just go, you know, he worked uh the 1991 uh big Rico case against the jackalones and alan health that came down in No, not sorry came down in no came down in 91 Isiah thomas was called in front of the federal grand jury to account for his interactions with the jackalones and alan health Uh in 1990 as the pistons were winning their second Championship and ned was in the middle of that whole investigation And I'm really eager to to get him to to talk about that and then obviously we'd want him to talk about season one But this was uh, really, uh, I could not have scripted this any better. Uh, jake, thank you so much Why don't you tell all of our audience where they could find you uh personally and then all the all the deep coverage Yeah, absolutely. So, um, the I'll start with the podcast. It's called deep cover There's two seasons season one is the drug wars. That was the story We're just telling you about and then season two is mob land, which was the bob coulee story And you can get that on apple podcasts or wherever you get your podcast Yeah, it's called deep cover and yeah, I have I mean, I've got a website jake howlpern.com But I would say, you know, you're just check out the podcast I think that the listeners your listeners would enjoy it and Um, we'll definitely I think you guys have been talking about doing a cross promotion I hope we can send some traffic your way Because you guys haven't I always find the podcast that I enjoy the most listening to are ones where It's an actual conversation It's not just, you know, a bunch of scripted questions and um, yeah, this was a lot of fun Yeah, thanks jake and uh, we wish you luck and hopefully we'll have you back on again And I just want to remind our audience to please subscribe to us follow us on social media instagram facebook We're on twitter, uh, we have a presence on youtube. Hopefully that's going to uh be expanding and hopefully this episode At some point we're recording it. We'll be on a video You'll be able to listen to the audio very soon, but hopefully the video will be up soon And uh, please check out deep cover podcast I'm jimmy butchilato and scott Bernstein. Thanks jake howlpern and mark behind the glass. We'll see you next week. We're out Yeah, thanks


What's going on everyone? Sam here with late in sports cards. We are doing the random for 22-23. Penin Mosaic, basketball, fast break, five, box break, number three, random team style. All right, let me show you guys the results real quick, random results. As always, you can find those on the website under the results tab as well as the link in chat. I'm also going to do the random for five silver packs. I'm going to roll the dice, whatever names, five names are on top after nine times look at the packs. One, two, three, four, five, Matthew C, Luke N, Tim L, Daniel M, and Michael B. So we've got Matthew C, one, oh wait, what am I doing? Six, seven, eight, and nine. My bad on that one, everybody. I don't know what I was thinking. Jeffrey S, Christopher E, Jonathan W, Dustin M, and Scott F. That's who's actually going to win it. That was nine times. I don't know why I stopped after five. I don't know what I was thinking. Sorry about that, everybody. So Jeffrey S, my apologies. Christopher E, God, Jonathan W.  I don't know why I stopped after nine, after five. Dustin M, sorry about that again, everybody. I'm just a bot. And Scott F, the 2023 Panini National VIP packs, these right here. Yeah, I guess nine and five semi sound familiar. But there you go. Congrats to everybody who got one.  Thank you, Robert. Peter M, with a spot in number four. Thank you, Peter. Down to 15, 15, or 14 to go, and then actual 14 to go. I think I'm talking too quickly. That's my issue here. Trying to do too much at one time. It's all cards. Good luck. One auto per box here. Got some rookies and stuff. Disco parallels, all that fun stuff as well. Disco Alfred Shengun, Shade on Sharp. So yeah, same like base design and everything. You'll still get base rookies, Jalen Green, piece in, and you'll still get like one insert a pack. Then you'll get different, the numbers, or like the colors are numbered to different numbers. Benedict Matheryn to 25. Wow, that's gonna work just fine for the Pacers. Christopher L, congrats, buddy. That's a really good start right there. Actually, on the blue disco auto, Oshai Iqbaji, and a couple of base on the back. Roll through the base. Purple, manual quickly, to 50 on the purple disco. Davis, Ivy Rookie, and McClung. This, I would just do like 50 and under, so like you could throw the purples in. And then all those obviously. Disco, Harrison Barnes, Jalen Durin, Isaiah Mobley, Disco, Hallow, that's the variation. Nice one there. You get one rookie variation per box as well. Same, similar to last year they had it, they do it in prism as well. Kevin Love, Chandler, Coloco, Keegan Murray. Isaiah Blue, Kevin Love for the Heat to 85. 85, Blue Disco. Gowen, Jabari Walker, Silver Damar, M. Hard, A. J. Griffin. Disco, Andrew Wiggins, Minot, Matherin, and A. Josh Giddy. There's Golds in here, Deandre Hunter. You got Gold Discos, you got the Black Disco as the one of one, similar to the Black Mosaic. Blue to 85, Ryan Rollins Rookie, nice one there at Golden State. Simone Fontecchio, Ty Ty, Keegan Murray base rookie. Disco, Max Christie Rookie, Rollins, Bo Champ, and Christian Brown. Jeff with three spots in Flawless Mixer number five. Thank you, Jeff. Ben with a spot in number four. We're down to 13 to go in the next break, which is number four. 13 to go, thank you all. And then the Flawless Mixer number five is at 16 to go. Officially halfway sold out, everybody. Thank you all. 16 to go on Flawless Mixer number five. It's USC. Maybe it's ESPN. I think it's on ESPN actually. That's Sadiq Bay. Yeah, go up to 1031. There you go. Shade on shirt. Disco, Julius Reinal. I think the Broncos are going to beat the Dolphins. I would be surprised with how good the Dolphins are right now. Breakaway. Is he out? Is he coming home? Still, he has been limited like every practice. No, that's not fair. We got a gold's coming up, I believe. Gold auto. Jaylen Rose for the Bulls. Nine of 10. That's sick. Congrats on that one there, Chicago. I love that. Oshai Gbaji and Dyson Daniels. Disco, Chet Holmgren Rookie. Jayden Ivey Rookie as well. Matthew Klung. Anthony Edwards Disco. Darren Fox. Drake O'Ail. Wendell Carter Jr. Jaylen Thurin and A. J. Dubb on the Variation Disco. Nice one there. Congrats. Say Mosaic, Josh Giddy. E.J. Griffin, Neymar. Down Terry, Disco Rookie. Gowing, Shabari Walker. Jordan Noora for the Pacers. Benedict Mathurin for the Young. Disco, Jaylen McDaniels. Shabari Smith, Introductions Rookie. For the Rockets. Isaiah Blue Lamello to 85 for the Hornets. Fontechio, Ty Ty, Keegan Murray based Rookie. The Purple to 50. Jonathan Kaminga. Nice one there for the Warriors. 12 to 50. Second year Kaminga. Bo Champ, Christian Brown. Right, box three. Tim, yeah. Third in SPS already, my god. Yeah, Pennex is insane. Jason Tatum. Kate Cunningham, break while I have to do is be the top receiver on a quarterback that throws a billion yards a game. Yonis Valenshunis, Disco. Branham, Houston, KD. Yeah, another gold coming up. That is a gold auto, Kenyan Martin, Kmart for the Nuggets. That's awesome, dude. Nine of ten. Congrats, those throwback Nuggets jerseys. Love it, dude. Kmart, senior. Yes, sir. The OG, the first overall pick, Kmart. Disco, Patrick Baldwin, Junior Rookie. And some more base. Again, 13 to go on the next one, everybody. Break number four. Five silver packs available as well. Four random. Jalen Durin on your variation. How ya, Durin? Again, 13 remaining. It's breaking next, everybody. 13. No, six to go. Jason A, taking seven in the next one. Jason, thank you, buddy. And a spot in our first mixer. Jason, thank you, my friend. I appreciate that, bro. Uh, worse. Oh, no, that's, uh, I was gonna say we're sold out. I was like, whoa. Six to go, everybody. Jason, thank you. Six to go. And then after that, we're filling up mixers. We're filling up the Flawless NC mixers, everybody. Disco, Bradley Beale, Shep Holmgren Rookie, and Jalen Durin introductions. And Williams Rookie, Marjanbo Champ, and A, Christian Brown. That's Silver, Bobby Portas. Paolo Rookie, nice one there, Magic. Arabia, Jeremy Sohan as well. Disco, Dbook, Shade On, Sharp. Mondays, Williams, and A, Bass. Startin'? Go, baby. There's Dearon Fox.  I remember him. Because, uh, Danny Green. Transfer, what? 250, yeah, it was transfer. Um, but I remember, because I used to, like, the company I used to work for was headquartered in Indianapolis, and we had to go there all the time for, like, meetings and just absolute nonsense. And, uh, that is a Blue Joellen bead, nice one there at 85. And, uh, Jaden Ivy Rookie. They all, like, love Michael Penex there, all the IU grads. He was really good. Because there was a, one year, not last year, but the year before, uh, Talon with a spot in four, Christopher with a spot in four, Matthew with two spots in four, Dustin with two spots in four. I think we're down to one. I think all of a sudden we're sold out. Just kidding. Steven, you taking a spot in the second mixer. We're sold out on number four. Blink my eyes and it's sold out. Thank you all. 15 to go on Flawless NT Mixer. 15 to go. So that is a box of Flawless and a box of NT, everybody. Number five. Thank you all. I appreciate that, guys, so much to be able to get right into the next one. Karris Lavert. And I'll be, be able to get right into Flawless as well. I know that's what a lot of people are waiting for. I'm bored. I feel that, Dustin. Disco, PJ Washington, Chet Holmgren, Shade on Sharp. And what's nice about this is you're going to get cards no matter what. It's not like, you know, something that's very few card cards. That is an auto Jeremy Sohan to 25. This has actually been a stupidly good five boxes. Congrats on that, man. Drinking and bored equals purchases. Yeah. Yeah, fair dude. There. Nice. Blue Palo to 85. Congrats, magic. Five of 85 Jersey number. Let's go. We'll get that into a mag. Congrats to the magic. Palo Bancare Rookie. Congrats, Orlando.  Leak Monk Disco. Shade on Sharp. And that's a Jaden Hardy Variation Disco. This has actually been pretty good. This is actually, I can't really complain, honestly. The case as a whole. Pascal Siakam, Jeremy Sohan. That was me a couple of weeks ago, Jason. Yeah, fair man. That was me. I was bored this morning when I was watching Kyle.  That is a purple Kennedy Chandler to 50 on the Rookie for the Gris. Laundice Williams, Oshai Bhaji. That's dangerous, dude, when you're bored and they're live on Fanatics Live because it's so easy to buy on there. Yeah, it really is. Like, all you have to do is hit one button and essentially you literally hit one thing and don't even have to leave the app and you're just like, oh, we're good. All right, and it's awesome. Done and great. And nice. Chris Middleton, Jalen Durin, and base. God, that worked out for you. Good. All right. Zion. Well, it's Jay and Ivy. Fast break. Just getting a bunch of shipping notifications a couple of days later. Yeah, there you go. Johnny Kaminga, blue to 85. Nice one again for the Warriors. Jonathan, you're doing well in this break, man. A couple of Kamingas. A lot of stuff for you, buddy. Disco is Jabari Walker, Rookie. Postman, Jangan, and Anjanemhar. All right, Jeff S. Spot and five. Jason S., three spots and five. Thank you. Both were down to 11. 11 to go. You have the trailblazers in this one, Omar. So you hit a couple of shade on Sharp, Rookie. It's nothing and a Jabari Walker numbered card. You're a good man. Mate Moris Disco, Paolo Rookie, Jeremy Sohan, introductions. You had the Warriors. You ended up with the Warriors, Jonathan. There's Disco Jordan Clarkson, Luca Donicic, and notoriety. Got a redemption coming up here. No, we don't have a redemption. It's an Usman Zhang. Disco Auto for the Thunder. Congrats, Thunder. 11 to go on our first mixer, everyone. Disco PJ. That's Walker Kessler. Nice one there. You, Jonathan, three numbered cards now. Three numbered cards. That is a Boyan McDonovich Purple 2.49 or 50. J. Dub, Rookie, Jabari Smith, and Walker Kessler. Good pack there. Kelly Ubre, Jaden Harding, Goodwin, and J. Dub. Fast break. There's a blue, Kobe White 285 for the Bolts. Jaden Ivey Rookie, Mack McClung, and Kennedy Chandler. Silver Eric Gordon, Disco Devon Vasell, Coloco Usman Zhang, and KD. Disco Derek White. Bass, bass, and bass. Blue Robin Lopez to 85 for the Caps. Nice one there. Cleveland, Kenneth Woffin, Bryce McGowan's, and Chet Holmgren Rookie. All right, quick recap here, everybody. We add our purples to 50. Boyan McDonovich, Kennedy Chandler, Danny Green, John Lynn Kominga, manual quickly. Autos to 25. Benedict Mathurin, Usman Zhang to 25. Jeremy Sohan, Gold to 10. Jalen Rose, Kenyon Martin, and a blue palo. That's jersey numbered five of 85 for the Magic. Thank you all again for the fill. Coming up next is number four. Thank you all again for it.


Mr. Pring's chicho. Yeah, I used to be a chef But I'm only 23 so I plan on getting back into it again as I love cooking Hence why I'm interested in what you're growing as I grow my own things too. Awesome. Awesome, brother Awesome. I've known I've had a few Friends that have been chefs over the years. I get along with chefs.    I like chefs.  Salut to the chefs


Uh-oh. Hang on, Power Bastards initiated. Me too. Let's go do this. You know, I haven't seen many people talk about the Slinky Dog board game on the ceiling here. Look at this. The Slinky Dog bowl, the goal. Chase the car. Chase the ball. Take for the bones. Catch the ball. Look at how cool that is, little paw prints and bones. I'm so excited. Are you excited? Yeah, I'm really excited. Oh, that one over there says chomp the chew toy. Such a handsome devil, you. He definitely deserves you need to take your hat off. We just got off Slinky Dog, and now it is currently sitting at 105-minute wait. Oh, I don't have time for that. Nope. Maybe it falls off. I think we're going to go ride... Saucers. The Saucers. Look at them. Alien swirling sauces.  Come play. Yes, come play. Come play. And surprisingly, this is only a 35-minute wait. Wow, that's not too bad. Oh, I was just wondering why you decided to do your makeup like this today. Tension all at once. That might be my eyes. Nice to meet you. Thank you. You love this ride so much. I actually like this more than Slinky Dog. No way. Wow. We're going. It gets a lot rougher, trust me. We just hit Slinky Dog, Dash, and Alien Swirling Saucers in under an hour. What can I say except you're welcome. Thank you. Hollywood Studio is a little bit more in leave toy story land. Gotta get out of the sun. It is definitely coming down today. Thank you for letting everybody know. Just informing everyone. And they officially closed off the old X entrance to Toy Story Midway Mania. I wonder what they did with my V block. I don't know. I would like it, though. Me too. I think we're going to stop in and see Groot and Star Lord because with all this traffic that's going past Toy Story while Disney presents to get to Toy Story, I bet you a lot of people are just skipping over Groot. Oh, just what I need. Look at it. They provide tissues. Yep. It's very important when you walk in here and you're filled with such joy. And I was completely wrong about nobody wanting to come meet Star Lord and Groot because there's a 40 minute wait. So I think we're going to pass on that. The only reason I came in here was because I wanted to compare the toy story model to the actual Toy Story Land. It's gone. Look at it. Now they have a full blown Galaxy Edge display here. It's like a very old thing. Look at that. Look at that Millennium Falcon. Wow. That's crazy. So the Toy Story Land model is out. Now it's all about Galaxy's Edge from here on out. The next big thing coming to Hollywood Studios. Look at it. It's going to be nice. I'm more excited for the Runaway Railroad. Are you? Oh, what else do they have over here? Oh, look at that. Well, we sure did kind of tire ourselves out by running into Toy Story Land like that. I feel fine. I feel tired out. I woke up. I literally woke up and 10 minutes later I was in Hollywood Studios. I drove. So I think we're going to watch maybe a show. And I was thinking of what show we haven't seen in a while at Hollywood Studios. It's got to be Beauty and the Beast. It's been a long time. Let's go to the... I don't think we've ever done it while we were vlogging. Maybe not. I don't think so. In the past year we've never done it. But let's go to the Theater of the Stars. And there she is. The Theater of the Stars. Beauty and the Beast. And I think we're going to catch that one o'clock showing. And we didn't get a Fast Pass for the Beauty and the Beast because we really didn't know what else to get after we used up our Toy Story Land Fast Pass. I would say it's been maybe two, three years since we watched this actually. You know what I was thinking the most is that when we go to Magic Kingdom again, we have never met Gaston. Ooh. I really want to meet Gaston. Ooh. The Theater of the Stars. Look at those fans. They're like helicopter blades. And as punishment she transformed him into a hideous beast and placed a powerful spell on the castle. And all who lived there were spared and lost all hope. For who could ever learn to love a beast? There goes a faker with his train life always. The same old lemon rolls to sell. Right from the moment when I met his mother. I felt she's gorgeous and I fell. But of course, we must thank them for your welcome. And madams and as you, it is with deepest pride and greatest pleasure that we welcome you. Can you when you're older? It's a beat. He's got beat. Make it strong. And the pause can pause. You hear and rise in form of an art coming home. Here I am. This is our wedding song. I expected this. I think about sitting so close to the stage. It's trying to get out afterwards. I would say so. Talk about like anything we loved most about that show besides like our wedding song being in it. Probably Miss Pots scooting around. She's just like scooting. So Disney, if you ever watch this and you're like, oh, we need a new Mrs. Pots, I'm right here. Keep Mrs. Pots. She's fantastic. We need someone to play her. Oh, you want to be Mrs. Pots. I will be Mrs. Pots and boot scoot and boogie. Oh. Well, I guess we check up on their carpet stitch here and sense. And somebody gave me a little present. He looks so cute. Look at his ears. He's got sleepy doggies. Look at you two. Red carpet stitch show is belly. Oh, here's his belly. Who likes his belly, girl? Well, that was it. That's it. Had a lot of fun. Did a little Toy Story Land. Another Toy Story Land vlog.  Sorry. Yeah, because we love it. We'll probably be here a lot for the next couple of months and forever. Forever, yes. So love the like you live. Love the like you love. It's your first time watching. Subscribe to our channel. You might like it. We'll see you next time. We were walking through the parking lot and look what we spotted. How cute is this? We stopped at the peel box on our way home and look at what we got. Look at these Gracie cups. Aren't they so cute? And it came with a card. This is from Amy. She wrote me a lot of nice little things. She has very nice handwriting. Amy, you have very nice handwriting. We're Snapchat friends. And then I also got this card. And this is from Melissa. And it came with these earrings. She made me these earrings. Are these the stinkin' cutest things you've ever seen? I love them. I love them. They are so cute. Let me show Gracie and Rita. We got Rita. Where's Gracie? Let me show you guys what they think. Meow, meow, meow, meow, meow, meow. Gracie, Gracie, Gracie, Gracie, Gracie. The cups. Say a big thank you. I love everything. Melissa and Amy, I really appreciate it so much. It makes my day to go to the peel box. Me too. It makes my day to go to the peel box and get things from you guys. I love it. Thank you so much. And I love these. And I love the cups. I am so excited to use them. Thank you guys.


This is a product of view for the DPS Alchemist 112. With this ski it's all about having vermin skiing powder all day long. 112mm underfoot gives it plenty of float, especially with this massive nose rocker on there too, so it's effortless to ski in powder. One of the standout features of this ski is the pure pre-peg carbon fibre laminate that runs down length for the ski. It makes it really lightweight but also dampens out a lot of vibrations and unwanted shock. As it's so lightweight a lot of people put in a free ride tourbinding too you know if they're who's who really want to earn their turns. The Padletech Cycurt is a blend of a flatter Cycurt at the front into the nose shape. It gives it more of a predictable turn initiation so it doesn't catch you out so much which is great if you have to ski it around resort to on hard packed snow before you get into the deep powder which is where you're really going to enjoy it. It uses high graphite content woke up race base that's super fast it glides really well and the graphite on it helps reduce static build up so yeah really improves that gliding performance from it. The Alchemist 112 was our free ride runner up ski of the year and it was a pretty close call. Every year when it snows on a ski test the staff rush straight for the DPS and they're pretty easy to see why. Everyone loved it it was great in powder it was fast it was fun not overly punishing and just floats really well you know definitely got a heritage for free riding and powder.