We all gather here today to witness the Global Landscapes Forum, Piedland's matter. Alright, let me give you an insight of this event a little bit. Global Landscapes Forum is the world's largest and only science-led multi-sectoral platform designed to produce and disseminate knowledge and accelerate action to build more resilient, climate-friendly, diverse, equitable and productive landscapes. The GLF platforms connects diverse stakeholders, provides learning opportunities, gather and shares knowledge and accelerate action to produce positive, sustainable impact. I'm really happy to announce that today's event is broadcasted online. As you can see, there's two cameras on each side, and also through social media platform, everyone can participate. So I'd like to greet all of you who are currently joining us via online streaming. Welcome. And we also welcome your comments and inputs through our social media platform. Through Facebook, Twitter, LinkedIn, the account is GlobalILF, or you can also participate through Instagram, Tumblr and Flickr at Global Landscape Forum. And ladies and gentlemen, we also have a virtual participant badge with our Facebook picture frames. So what you can do is like our GLF Facebook page, www.facebook.com. Then you can upload a new profile picture.  And for all of you joining me here, I would like to inform you that we have provided simultaneous translation. You can find the device on your table in front of you. But please take note that we designated this device for those who need it the most. So if you don't really need the translation, please let others who need more to use it. And then after each session, just after you finish using that device, just please put it back on the table in front of you. Before we begin the plenary sessions, I would like to welcome the Director General of C4, Mr. Peter Holmgren, to come up to the stage and give your introductory remarks and context. Thank you. Thank you very much and good morning, Excellencies, colleagues and friends. It's great to see you here. Let me start by conveying apologies from Minister Siti Nurebayya, who had planned to be here, but has unfortunately had to travel outside the city this morning. She sends her sincere apologies and wishes all of us a great conference. Which gives me some more time for my opening remarks. One month ago, the C4 Board went to visit the Petlands in central Kalimantan. And I want to take this opportunity to thank the community representatives for their hospitality and for sharing their experiences and concerns. Among others, we met with Bapak Ahmad, who is also here today and will speak in the next session. We're all impressed by the determination, responsible action and innovation by local communities to restore Petlands and to build a better future. We should all do what we can to help and make sure that science, policies and experts support the efforts of local people. And that's why we're here at the Global Landscapes Forum today. Let me say a few words, a few additional words on the Global Landscapes Forum. And this particular one, which is called Petlands Matter. We have participants from across Indonesia and from across the globe.  We also have participants joining via livestream and of course through various social media channels. We have a full day ahead. We have an opening plenary with the community challenges, aspirations and expectations. We have a round table where we want to share lessons and solutions from Petlands around the world. And we have science sessions, national breakout sessions, landscape labs, exhibitions, etc. It's all in your program. So it's going to be a great and interesting day, I think. This is also the first Global Landscapes Forum to be held in Indonesia. And it's also the first Global Landscapes Forum in our next phase. And this GLF, as we call it, even if we shouldn't use acronyms too much, the GLF platform is expanding both in scope and in reach. And of course we do this because we believe firmly that sustainable landscapes are crucial for achieving the sustainable development goals. And when we deal with sustainable landscapes, we want to put people and local communities at the centre. And for that reason, the GLF going forward will have four components. We will address learning. We will address outreach. We will have dialogues, such as this one. And we will have a knowledge platform. And this all comes together in our aim, together with many, many partners to establish a community of practice, a movement, if you like, that engages a billion people over the next five years. That of course includes all of you. Now, turning to peatlands, topic of today. Peatlands have often been important for development and livelihoods. And I can reflect on my own country, Sweden, where we have used to drain peatlands for a long time for smallholder agriculture and also for forest production. And then Ansofi and I remember from our time in Italy when we travelled across huge peatlands that have been drained for food production over the past 100 years or so. So peatlands have always been an important resource, which is also why we've seen large scale policies on peatland development in this country in the past. But these days now we see mainly to talk about carbon when we discuss peatlands. When we had the haze crisis in 2015, we were only a few months ahead of the Paris climate negotiations. And of course the focus was on the climate issues. And the media particularly in the north talked about emissions from the land fires in Indonesia. They also talked about the wildlife and they also talked about the delay of the Formula One race in Singapore. But at the same time the communities were suffering from economic losses, from illness, even from deaths. And now when the media, the attention in media has all but disappeared, communities continue to struggle with the consequences. And still we often use the climate argument first. Fair enough, the climate argument gives us a higher profile and a political momentum for action on the international scene. And it is an important issue, no doubt about that. It is time to calibrate this discussion and I believe that the local perspective is key for that. When we put people first, then we can make progress for the climate as well. The reverse order is probably not desirable or even possible. So today is about exploring challenges, frustrations and roadblocks. But also more to identify opportunities for collaboration for actions and solutions. And I'd like us all to reflect on what those opportunities are and who they are for, who will benefit from today's deliberations. This is also why this conference today will start with the perspectives and the challenges and the aspirations of the local community representatives. We'll see a short film from Central Kalimantan after my introduction and then turn to the first panel to learn more. And I think it would be good for all of us to reflect on this. What are we doing and how does it help? So thank you for joining us today. I look forward to a most interesting conference. And by that I will conclude and we will turn to the video that will be shown. I'm not sure if we won't say something in between, but that's all from my side. Again, a warm welcome and I look forward to today's deliberations. Thank you. If there's no Danau, it's hard for us to live like this. My name is Mohammad Irwanto. I live in Panggil Ayuz. And this is my wife, Muriah. I have three children. I live in Kempung Melayu. And I used to live here in Paddy. I used to live here in Paddy. Because every year, when I was in Kemarau, I used to do the firework and the firework. And the firework became a blessing for Paddy. And the results were enough for us to eat for one year. There are also some of them sold. But after a few years, Ila Lang grew up. Ila Lang was used by the people of Herbisida. Around 7 or 8 years, the land here, if we say it here, the land is dead. And we also had a few mission to harvest the land. The result of the harvest is about 20 kilos per day. In a day, we harvest the land. To raise the land, this land, our system, before we came to Kemarau, it was about a month or two. The land was already clean. Around the border, and the surrounding area, I cleaned the land. And after we came to Kemarau, we cleaned the land. Some of the people didn't clean the land. Some of them cleaned the land. Because in Kemarau, there is a fire every year. So most of them keep burning. I am Mr. Alin. I am Amina. I have been here for a few years, for more than 5 years. I have been here for a few years. Because of my father, he was able to burn the land. So if we continue to do this, it will be difficult. Because the land is already dead. It is like a rock, without any wind, it is dry. It is all smooth. It is like a snake. So all of them don't burn the land. So we don't do anything. We just help the community. Help them. Like the people who want to help the community. We don't do anything. For one point, we have to use fire. We just ask for help. What are the tools, tools, etc. Like a tractor. To keep the water, there are tools. It is like a rock. It has never been like this before. I have been here for a long time. Only this year. Because of my father, it is like a rock. What is the best solution? That's it. My name is Yai Min. My hope is that in the next 5 years or 10 years, I hope that my family can especially my children, grandchildren and siblings. Let's give a round of applause for the video. And of course for Mr. Peter Holmgren. Thank you for the remark. Ladies and gentlemen, before we proceed to the planning recessions, let me inform you that we encourage you to join our survey. You can find the form inside the participant booklets. You can fill it in whenever you have the time. And then after that, you can submit it to the registration table or to the ushers that will collect it later on. And also let me inform you as well that this morning we have two planning recessions. The first one is titled Community Perspectives and Priorities and Peatlands, which will start soon. And then the second one is Peatlands around the world, Challenges and Opportunities, which will start right after the first session. It means that there will be no coffee break in between sessions. However, we have provided some refreshments. There will be water and snacks, which will be handed out by the waitress. So we kindly ask you to please remain seated after the first session. Without further ado, I would like to invite and introduce our moderator for the first planning recessions. Dr. Damayanti Bukhari, she is a professor at the Department of Plant Protection, Faculty of Agriculture, Bogor Agricultural University. Mrs. Damayanti, please stand up. Peace be upon you. Good morning. Greetings to all of you.  So I would like to start by using this keyword that why we are here today. So this is about a landscape. It's a landscape approach. It's a global landscape forum. So what is special about landscape that we should all remember? For me, since I've been working at the landscape level for the past two years, three years, but I've been doing research at the landscape level for the past ten years. To me, one of the most important keywords in landscape is constructive dialogue. Constructive dialogue. Because we know that there are many players within the landscape. Different players have different interests. And the interest is, of course, for development, livelihood. But maybe different actors or different different groups have different interests. So how is it that we can live side by side where we have this different interest? Thus, constructive dialogue. And that is why we are here today to have that constructive dialogue. The first session will be listening, will be learning from the communities that I will introduce shortly. But before that, maybe just something to think about. C4 I think has this is a great opportunity to work with C4 to try a new approach of gathering knowledge. Usually in this type of conferences or workshop, people would present their research result and then scientific discussion and then and then we get something or we don't get something. Well, this approach that we are using today is different in that we are going to listen. We are going to hear. We are going to be engaged in a constructive dialogue to find solution. Solution to live side by side. And it is interesting that we are starting with the community because we know that communities, people, culture evolves from human interaction with the environment. And local communities are particularly very close with the environment. They hear, they feel, they know what's happening to the environment. Now, the interesting is that science tries to explain the phenomena of the environment. And now we see a kind of I don't know, is it irony that the science that has developed and create knowledge is it actually benefiting the local community because of the science, the knowledge that can create policy is being challenged by the vested interest of the many stakeholders. So, today we are going to try to find that other form of knowledge where the knowledge is from the local community. We are going to try to understand how the community has gained their knowledge through their experiences. And then maybe there's a lesson here that we can get from the community to try to explain that scientifically and then create new knowledge. So, it is a pleasure today for me to invite our speakers and please allow me to change Indonesian English, so so it will be more interactive particularly with the communities and I think the most important thing for us here is to make our community here feel at home that they are here with friends and that you guys, the audience they are not threatening. So, allow me to speak Indonesia now. Okay, Bapak Ibu Selamat datang, terutama pada teman-teman masyarakat yang ada disini. Tadi saya menerangkan sedikit saja bahwa sangat senang berada disini dan terutama bisa menjadi bagian dari diskusi dengan Bapak Ibu terutama dari masyarakat yang ada disini. Jadi tujuan kita pagi ini Bapak Ibu semua adalah untuk mendengar pengalaman dari Bapak Ibu dan bagaimana pengalaman ini kemudian bisa menjadi pembelajaran bagi kita. Nah, kalau gitu saya akan mengundang our first speaker Ibu Ibu Emanuela Shinta dari Palangkaraya Silahkan maju Ibu. Nanti Ibu Shinta akan memperkenalkan dirinya. Siapa? Silahkan duduk Ibu. Kemudian yang kedua akan saya undang Bapak Ahmad Taman Arudin Pak Ahmad Taman ya, Pak Ahmad Taman is also from Central Kalimantan from Palangkaraya He is a farmer an agroforestry farmer Silahkan Bapak. And then the third one is Bapak Edisaputra, Silahkan Bapak Edisaputra dari Sumatra Selatan, dari Okie. He is from South Sumatra and he is the chief or the head of the Bersatu Makmur Farmer Association. The last one is Bapak Agus. Bapak Agus Nuraini head of the village from Wara Siram Kutai Kartan Negara is Kalimantan. Silahkan Bapak. Bapak Ibu, Silahkan Pak Agus di sana. We will start by giving the opportunity to talk about who they are and what they have done. Not but only in 5 minutes. So this is also a challenge for our speakers. So, Ibu Sinta, Pak Agus, Mr. Edi and Mr. Taman Welcome. Now we are on the stage. How do you feel? Alhamdulillah. Alhamdulillah. So, Bapak this meeting here is a meeting that I really want to learn from Bapak Ibu. So, we want to hear that experience. If possible, I start from Ibu. So, Ibu is a woman. I mean from talking. Please, Ibu Sinta, can introduce who and what is the passion of Ibu and what is the passion of Bapak Ibu. Ibu, Ibu, Ibu, Ibu, Ibu, Ibu, Ibu, Ibu, Ibu, Ibu, Ibu, Ibu, Ibu, Ibu, Ibu, Ibu, Ibu, Ibu, Ibu, Ibu, Ibu, Ibu, Ibu, Ibu, Ibu, Ibu, related to the effort to protect the tribe and also protect the community. So, a little introduction, I'm from Rano-Welum. Rano-Welum is from the dialect of Dayak-Manyan. That is my real language, my mother tongue. It means living water. It means living water. So, it's not a coincidence that our mother tongue is living water and the one we're facing is fire in the middle of Kalimantan. Before, I want to tell you a little story. That being a real person, a real woman, being an indigenous, being a Dayak person, it's really hard and easy. Because every time I go there, I always ask two main questions. The first one will be asked like this.  Are you still eating human meat? That's the first question I'll get. Then the second one, they'll ask, Is a Dayak person still wearing wooden skin? And that's where I realize why many people outside Kalimantan and especially in Indonesia have a stigma towards us, people of Kalimantan. And that raises my question. And actually, I'm not too concerned about that. But that will be our purpose, my purpose, especially as indigenous people of Borneo Island until we're faced with the situation in 2015. When there was a crisis of forest fire and smoke in Kalimantan. There are many stories about forest fire and smoke that happened.  But there are many stories that haven't been heard. In 2015, when August to October, the sky was dark, very dark, yellow. And every person, we were starving of oxygen. We couldn't breathe. We couldn't breathe. When the forest fire happened, the eyes couldn't see, they couldn't breathe and nowhere to hide. There was nowhere to hide. They wanted to run, but they ran away. They were all breathing air. There was a child named Intan, he was 9 years old. And when the smoke was caused by the fire of the forest and the smoke, the child was going to school, and in the middle of the road, he collapsed. He was taken to the hospital, he died. There, we also heard stories about a mother who was still in trauma today because she died because of her baby. Because of lung failure. Because she couldn't breathe. The child was 21 years old, in 2015 always. Then there was also an older brother, who lived in the village of Tetangga, close to my village. An older father who didn't know anything about the rule, don't smoke. He just did what he used to do, since he was still young. He started smoking, and then the fire suddenly spread, and finally, he died. Because he was afraid, and he didn't know what to do, this older brother changed his mind. And this is just a story, from many stories in a place that hasn't been heard by people outside of Kalimantan. And every time I remember what happened in 2015, it was very traumatic. But at that time, I started to think, am I, we, as the people who live there, as the people who breathe there, as the people who live in the forest, as the people from our identity, do we just want to stand up, cry, laugh, and hope that people from outside come to save us? And that became a turning point in my life and in our community. So then we, okay, we have to do something. Do you want to choose only to be a victim here, or do you want to do something for the people around us, for our land, where we grow up? And finally we started, in 2015, I, along with my friends, at that time, with my young friends, we didn't have anything, we didn't know, we didn't understand at that time how fun it was to ask for help. And I have to admit, I was the one who was a demonstration in front of the governor. He said, save us, save our people. We couldn't breathe in this kind of poisonous air. But then we brought the young people, okay, let's do something. We started collecting what we had. We heard stories about the local lady who entered the forest in the morning and out in the evening to set fire without any support. At that time, they only ate noodles and eggs. They entered in the morning and out in the evening. There was no support. There was no hands, there was no support for the lady. And finally we said, let's collect what we had. We collected 5,000, 10,000 rupees. We cooked at that time. We cooked and brought food for local firefighters. And they were very happy. And that was the beginning of the story. Can you hurry up? Yes. So, that was the beginning of what we did. Then we continued to move. We brought medicine to the village. We brought masks. Because the village people didn't know how to protect themselves. Because in Kalimantan, it has been 20 years. The fire of the forest. The fire lasted every year. So it happened. Finally, we brought it to the village. So, if you can, I can ask you. Because this is the answer session. So, actually, what happened to Rano Wellum? Yes. What was it? What was the point of Rano Wellum? It was simple. We brought the stories from them that became victims. Like I said, here. So, actually, what was done by Rano Wellum was the unheard voices from the ground. Yes. That was brought to the world. That's why I'm here. To bring the stories from the ground that need to be heard around the world. To voice the voices from the voiceless. They are the ones that really affected by this all. And to speak for those who cannot speak for themselves. Because talking about the forest is not just talking about the forest. But it's talking about the identity of us as a community. Okay. That's important. So, talking about the forest is talking about the identity of the community. Where the community is a part of the landscape. That's right. So, if I may ask, is it more about advocacy, then the media, building a media relation, like that? Yes. We believe that this media has power. The media has power. And we document stories like that. Like what I told you earlier. We record with audiovisual. We also write through articles and journalism. And we bring this to the surface. Okay. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you for being applause to Ibu Shinta. Okay. Next, I will go to Mr. Taman. Maybe, Mr. Taman. So, Mr. This is a farmer. Yes, sir. A farmer in the north of Gambut. One of the biggest problems in the north of Gambut when farming is fire. So, what do you do as a farmer? For farming, do you still use fire or not? Maybe you can tell me briefly. Please, Mr. Taman. Mr. Ibu, the farmer, and the farmer, whose name cannot be said one by one. Here, please allow me to introduce myself. First, my name, my name is Ahmat Taman Uruddin, whose name is Mr. Taman. I was born in Katangawi, Jautimor, and in 1980, I immigrated to Kalimantan, in the Central Kalimantan, Palangkaraya, since 1980. So, I was born in Kalimantan. Well, I followed the government's program. At that time, whatever was given, whatever I received, I followed the government's program. Apparently, in the Central Kalimantan, in Palangkaraya, Mr. Ibu, I was given land, or every brother was given land, I had 2 hectares, each of which was 2 hectares. So, for farming, that was 1.4 hectares, for farming, 1.3 hectares. 1.7.5, 1.75 hectares. Well, this needs to be told, from the beginning, so that later, maybe, it becomes a question, why, until now, now, why there is a difference, or a very big difference. Well, there used to be, now, Malah Dilaran, well, there will be questions later. Well, I talked with the PLTB, the opening, opening, and the preparation, the opening without fire. Well, I understand once, since I came to Palangkaraya, I know, I saw, the land is easily burned. The land is, every time, when there is a fire, it must be a hole, the hole is not enough, it can reach 2 meters, minimal, 1.5 meters, up to 2 meters, the maximum, it is for the soil, the soil, when it is dry. Well, for the soil, which is not burned, the color is red, chocolate, but it does not flow. Well, I think, meaning the soil, the soil, sensitive to the fire. Well, from there, I also, I was curious, how the soil here, so that it is not burned. Finally, well, from a little, we found, first, I saw, vegetables, vegetables, in the place, which is close to the fire, but, in the place, which is not burned, it cannot grow, do not live, grow only, do not. Well, that's the story, until now, people, the people of Palangkaraya, or especially, people in my place, it is still extraordinary, part of it, it is still extraordinary, using the method of fire burning. Gulma, smoke is burned, but it is with fire, thick, 2 to 4 centimeters, it must be burned. I used to, that's also what I did, because what can I do, because I do not know, or do not have a better solution, from that, I ended up not burning, it started in 2004. Well, in 2004, I worked together with, that, the new Banjar Baru, Kalimantan Selatan, which is, a research, about Jelutung trees. Well, there, I, I used to, so, I was not burning, while planting trees, Jelutung trees, local trees, well, that was a very ecologically, in my opinion, ecologically and economically, and all the dry trees, until now, it is still proven, it is, will increase the number of trees. In the end, without burning, sir, ladies and gentlemen, on the other side, I used another method, which is without burning, because, until now, if there is no fire, there is no fire, it cannot be extinguished. But, I have other alternatives. I can find a solution, the solution that I found, can be put in, for planting, throughout the world. Yes, this is my method, so, without burning, because, it will cause damage. The method that I found, it is, we are looking for, material, to buy as, that is, wild plants, wild plants, yes, then, cabbage, we, we, stir, because, each plant has a function. Cabbage, yes, is to reduce, the seed, because, in general, the seed is high. The seed is high. But, if you give cabbage, even if it is a little, as per the ability, that is, in a few years, then, the soil will change, become black. It will become black. That means, there will be, there will be, there will be, there will be, there will be.  Because I read and read from the results, I know that the soil is a lot of minerals, a lot of chemicals, natural materials. The soil is a lot of minerals. And all of them are needed by the soil. We humans also need minerals, the same with the plants. That's to help the metabolism process, to help the life, to grow the plants. If it's done, then I hope to invite all the plants, not only in Indonesia, but all the plants in the world, the plants are on the top of the village. So, to prevent the village from being damaged. If possible, the purpose is to use the agroforestry system. To combine the agroforestry system with the agroforestry system. So, you said earlier that you have found a method to make agroforestry without burning. And that is by using the agroforestry system. What is the agroforestry system? The agroforestry system is the mineral soil. It is sold there. It's not sold, we send it. We send it. Where do you send it from? From other regions. From the regions that are actually soil. Okay, I understand. So, we take the agroforestry system and move it. Wait a minute. I will explain. It's according to some people, I take the soil and it's also damaged. But, ma'am, it's a bit of damage. It's to save the bigger ones. Yes, sir. Okay, thank you very much, sir. The method is like that. Then, the agroforestry system should be developed. Okay, thank you very much, sir. I can go to the other one. Just a little, ma'am. The agroforestry system has helped you. This is for mitigation. This is for mitigation. Even though it is only a local action. The nature is still private. So, we can develop it later. And I have formed the agroforestry system, ma'am. The agroforestry system. The agroforestry system. I have more than 30 people. And in March last month, I have invited you about the request for the agroforestry system. It is in the process. Yes, thank you very much. Thank you very much, sir. A round of applause for you, sir. Okay. Well, ma'am, today, we are also invited through the website. So, there is a guest from abroad who is watching right now. And later, if there is a question, the question is actually prepared by the card. In the media, if it's not wrong, it has been shared. And later, the card will be... So, there is a team that will take and answer and ask questions to us. Okay, let's continue. Mr. Eddy. Mr. Eddy is from Sumatra, South. I often go there, but I go to Banyuasin and Musi Banyuasin. I have never been there. Well, my father's experience in the field of agroforestry. What did my father do with farming? What is his name? Ma'amur, together with Ma'amur, together with Ma'amur. Together with Ma'amur. Please, sir. Five minutes, sir. Okay, thank you for the opportunity that I have given to you. First of all, maybe I have known you before. My name is Eddy Ruzman. I am called Eddy Sabutra. I live in the village of Perigi. I'm from the village of Lampan, the village of Patenoki. So, I have many words to thank you. I have been given the opportunity to meet you in this meeting. Maybe this is the first time that I have met a very special meeting for me. Here, I would like to tell you about the experiences that we have experienced in the village. My own experience is living in the village of Perigi, originally from Palembang. So, from the past to now, we are in the area of Lohutan Gamud, Nahan Gamud. So, we used to do the worship in Lohutan Gamud. At first, we used to do the worship in Lohutan Gamud. It was called sonor at that time. So, from the time of our grandmothers, it was done in Lohutan Gamud. It means through the fire. So, this sonor worship has been done for a long time, even for hundreds of years. Sonor worship is the result of the economy. In one hectare, it can be 10 to 5 tons. So, when this sonor worship is always the government's order that it cannot be done again by the people of this sonor worship because it is forbidden. It is forbidden to worship. So, we tried to do other initiatives. So, this sonor worship is not done again. So, we tried to worship this Gamud. Actually, before the change to be a sonor worship, besides the potential in this Gamud, there are also those who are looking for fish. There are also those who are looking for bird's nest. The bird's nest is made for hand-wrapping, such as fishing rods, and also nets. That is also done by women who are looking for birds. So, when we do hand-wrapping, about the bird, we actually have our own tricks. How to hand-wrapping so that the bird is not burnt. So, when we do hand-wrapping, when we do hand-wrapping, there are 200 hectares, which are burnt. The rest of the 200 are never burnt because the bird is in the water. It is never burnt until thousands of hectares. So, when the bird is given a location by the government, then the bird is burnt. Because the bird is dried. If the people have never dried the bird. So, when there are tricks, between the people and the government, we also try to change the bird. In 2014, we planted 6 hectares. So, we planted 6 hectares, 25 hectares. Until now, it has been 25 hectares. So, when we planted the people, how to so that the bird is not burnt, but the bird can produce it. So, we planted 25 hectares. In 2016, we also planted 6 hectares. In this area, which is surrounded by trees, Alhamdulillah, it is not burnt, in 2015-2016. That is the rule. We are not angry. Then, how to so that the bird's habit is changed to a bird's nest. Because I realize that burning is wrong. It destroys the life of the people. So, we planted the bird's nest. So, in that area, we got the help of the bird's nest from the government. Alhamdulillah, in 2016, we planted the bird's nest. In 2016, we planted the bird's nest, which is 800 hectares. So, I want to ask you, how to not use burning. You actually planted the bird's nest. So, we planted the bird's nest, and the bird's nest, we did the burning. But, when the first time we planted the bird's nest, we still used the burning method. It was too far away, sir. So, how to open the first time when it was too far away? So, we cleaned it, then we spread it using herbicide. So, we started from the bird, then using herbicide. Okay. Then, the bird was still planted. Still.  So, we, some people planted the bird's nest, 25 people, we took care of the bird's nest. And it was still burning, for the bird's nest? Some are still burning, some are not burning. But, in 2016, we compared the burning which is not burning. So, if the bird's nest doesn't run the burning process, we need a big bird's nest. So, we had to give the bird to breed the bird's nest. Like what you said, the bird's nest became a seed. Because the bird's nest was burning. So, the problem now, is what I told you that the bird was given the location, after it was opened to the bird, the bird's nest became a problem to the bird's nest. If it's a problem, it never happened to the bird's nest. Okay. So, if you look at it, it has been an ecological change, an ecosystem change. When the bird was naturally swimming, then when the bird was opened and there was a canal, it became more dry. So, actually, the government can't burn, so we have to give a solution. What is the solution? Can you tell us when the bird's nest is open? Yes. So, the socialization may be forbidden, which is often done by the government. So, the solution for how to burn the bird's nest is never there. Okay. So, the government is only forbidden, but the solution is not given. So, yesterday, we had an audience with Bupati and Shaman, how to the government and the people work together to burn the nest so that it can be productive. Yes. So, the Bapak community just found a solution for how to burn the nest. So, we also have the size of the nest 1,600 boxes. I have the size of the nest combined in the nest. So, we have 1,600 boxes. What I said is 1,000 hectares. But, we hope because on the other side of the nest, there are 15,000 hectares. The new one is around 1,000 hectares. So, there are still 10,000 to 7,000 hectares that haven't been burned. So, the solution is not burned. Yes. Thank you very much, Mr. Eddy. Thank you very much. Now, we will talk with Mr. Agus. Mr. Agus from Palangkaraya. Oh, sorry, from Kutai Karta Negara. Yes. Kalimantan Timur. Yes. Please, what is related to the nest, Mr. Let's start. Peace be upon you. Thank you for the opportunity I have given to me. and I introduce my name is Abdul Agus Nur Aini. I'm from Moraziran village, Morakaman village, Kutai Karta Negara. Here, we share a little about our daily living and fish, which is at an area of about 42,000 hectares. At this time, we have created a garden that we have created a 27,000 hectare conservation forest. At this time, we have just got this garden that has just been planted by Esca from Bupati in 2016. The garden has been planted by us. Well, the activities that we do in Murashirang are the daily activities of the people. I am looking for fish that always enters the forest, leaves the forest, and all of them are in the garden. So, if it is possible to be burned, if it is possible to be done only five years at once, even if it is not taken care of. So, in five years at once, we often burn each year, sometimes twice, once for sure, it is a burning event. But the burning is to bring electricity for the people there. Because the fish that are there, it is very dangerous to be burned. But the problem with the fish is that the price sometimes goes down. That is the problem in our area. So, the enthusiasm towards the forest, we have done that earlier, in terms of money, we have directed, in accordance with the money, which has been made to be planted, even if it is only one season, and also the forest that needs to be made into a forest, it is in our money. That is clear. So, with that hope, but before we make the money first, we had a little problem between the people and the government. After that, the people did not know about it. So, what does it mean with the neighbors who have investors who come in, like Sawid's company? In our forest, which is 42,000 hectares, there is still no damage or damage caused by Sawid's company. That is why the people asked the villagers, what is it like, whether they accept the offer or not. It turns out that, the people who have it, there is also some people who know about the conservation forest. It is a little told. That is why, the residents of the people. So, the people, who are working for the forest, do not want to be changed, which is somehow caused by Sawid's company. Because of their habit. And also, they hope that the results are quite good. Compared to the neighbors who have Sawid's company. So, from there, and we, from the people in the field, who know exactly about the conditions in the field, whether it is suitable or not, to Sawid's company, we know that. So, the neighbors who are close to us, it has been two years, it has been two years, it has been successful. There is no one who lives, because it is only two times a year, once a year, it is certain. So, there is no Sawid living in our land. So, that is why, from the people, they think, if that is the case, there is only the damage of the forest. The one who will not be able to return the forest, will not be able to return the forest. So, that is why, from now on, there will be ideas and input from the people who are outside the government, which is to do protection of the forest, which we allocate together, which is to protect about 27 hectares, which is the forest. There is no grass, no grass. So, to all of that, the area that has been excavated by Bopati is 42,000 areas of Esa Morasia. That is it. So, there is already a room, sir. 42,000 hectares. It is extraordinary. Good luck to you, Mr. Agus, it is extraordinary. Okay. So, Mr. Ibu, please allow me to introduce what we have just heard. It may be a little longer than the previous presentation, but I think it is important that all of you have said it. That is the point. So, we have all heard their testimony. And basically, I am trying to to review again and highlight the importance points from each of the speakers. The first is this. Based on the local knowledge, Sonor has been used for hundreds and hundreds of years. And according to Paedi here, there has never been a problem before by using this burning method, which is called Sonor. However, it started to become a problem when land use changed, when investors start coming in, when palm oil started to be planted. And he was referring that or wondering whether previously when they did this burning, the land never really burned down to the ground because there is always water there. But now that the palm oil is there, maybe they made the soil becomes drier and so when they burn, then the impact is different. So, this is what I mentioned earlier when I was mentioning about the science and the technology. We learned that palm oil is a very fruitful plan to plan and then we bring it from Africa to Indonesia and Indonesia is such a good place to plant palm oil, but it actually changes. So the science of understanding that palm oil but bringing it across continent, it changes at the local level here that previously there's a local knowledge of using Sonor, which is fine, which is now not good anymore because of these changes. We always understand that the government does not allow to burn, so what can you do? He feels that the government is giving these restrictions but the solution is not really there. So there's still this thing that they're trying to solve and he and his friends actually found a solution which is okay, maybe they're not planting rice as they used to anymore but they're changing to rubber and Jalutong sorry, I forgot the name of what is Jalutong in English but basically it's a perennial plant and so they don't have to use fire that often anymore. However, they do need to plant rice, petty rice fields so they're asking for the government to help them basically developing the petty field so that they don't, they have a permanent petty field. But, Taman here believes that by burning actually you make the soil fertile and so you cannot do that anymore what can you do? So he and his friends found a methodology of a combination between Pupukkandang manure and other types of technology there but basically when I heard him speaking I was thinking he's actually a researcher he observes he learns he tries and then he observes again so again this local knowledge coming from him and he said I found the methodology how to make your soil fertile in peatland without burning and I can't share that to the world. Bapa Agus this is Paedi Bapa Agus stresses that people say that palm oil can make you rich but you know what from what I see it's not true the village that is just next to our village you can see that there's a small holder plasma palm oil but they're not as rich as what they expect they would want to be so from seeing the actual proof on the ground they feel that they have to protect the forest, the peatland because their livelihood has so long been like that and then the introduction of these investors with the promises that with this crop you can gain more wealth in his area it's not true so he believes that they have to protect and working with the government and also with the local NGO I think they now have now a spatial planning for 42,000 hectares they have a conservation forest so they have developed different land uses based on participatory methods that are local LSM some help local LSM help father some LSM help father develop this and the last one is actually Ibu Shinta Ibu Shinta really feels I am here I am a dyke and what can I do she graduated with an English major from university so unlike the others where they are farmers she is the young generation in the city and she was devastated by the forest she saw death around her she saw the changes of the sky orange toxic and then she saw a local farmer who hang himself because he cannot burn and when he was burning then he was caught and jailed and they don't understand why why I can't do what I usually do anymore so then she felt like Pitland is about human rights Pitland is about identity Pitland is about understanding how I can be part to voices the unheard voices and so she created a small NGO go around the village trying to find the story write the story make a small film voice those to the world so indeed let's give a big pen to all of this wonderful wonderful people here so that is their story this is their testimony we are now open for as again as I said earlier this is about constructive dialogue we've heard about them questioning the government we've heard about okay the private companies is there but they are not really helping us so this is real problem that we have been facing in the past now in the future and we have to find a solution how do we find that solution it's time to sit down together have that dialogue and so today here we are having this dialogue I know there are private sectors here there's also the government here and the university who's supposed to be the flag of truth and I don't know also the role of the university maybe the university has to become a part of the problem because they have a certain interest maybe or not I don't know so opening two discussions please if anyone wants to ask and as it's open there's a time one hour I forgot how many hours we have to finish but anyway I saw your hand there Mr. Rujito please then there's more Mr. Rujito first Mr. Bambang Hero maybe you want to Mr. Bambang Hero Mr. Rujito please Thank you Prof. Dami My name is Rujito I'm from the University of Ujaya Palembang and I really got the opportunity to be here thank you and I wish you a safe journey to our friends to be okay I agree with Mr. Ede that the people are okay they have local wisdom that has been said before it's not a problem and it's a problem as Mr. Ede said when the water becomes under or dry because there is a change of the ecosystem then it becomes an extraordinary thing in 2015 we got the opportunity from BRG to celebrate this year's event we thank you from Deputy 4 Dr. Harris we got the opportunity to do research and pallet project and we have set up that one of the pallet project that we will do will be done in the city of Prigi this city is not too far from Palembang only 1.5 hours from the city and Palembang we all know that one hour is not too far from Jakarta we have also discussed with from Palembang that also got the opportunity to do research from BRG this year and we will focus there because it's interesting this place because the people last year just 652 hectares which is not productive so the government has changed the sound system which has been built by the government but the people become hopeless because they have 6 pallets that can't grow well and can't produce and this is an opportunity for us on the team of University of Jaya to help the people of the city with the opportunity to do research next year so we will try to to focus on the sound system but what we call a plus plus sound system with the technology we got information from the government there is technology which is using dust and mineral soil which we can apply to Mr. Eddy's place so that the the area according to Mr. Eddy there are several opportunities to meet there by burning the soil if it's not burnt the soil will not be burnt the technology that was found by Mr. Dirkali Matan and the constructive dialogue we have to answer what is there in Mr. Eddy's place to participate in the field and to meet them so that they don't burn the soil thank you Mr. Rujito so Mr. Rujito offered that there is a new technology that is developed a plus plus sound system which can be shared with the community so there is a high level of innovation to be involved in this maybe we don't have to answer thank you okay here are some cards that have been included Mr. Bambang it turns out that I have to read this okay so that everyone knows what this is so I'll read it before I give an opportunity to read it in English in Indonesia so I'll read it according to what I read there will be a direct response the first one is this what kind of support your community would need the most to solve pit related problems I'll read this first so this is the question this is how the parents are so actually the parents or mothers to solve the problems that are encountered in the field what is the most needed the most needed help that was the question I'll read this first then has your community tried rewetting the pit any lessons learned have you tried to do rewetting rewetting rewetting have you used that technology and has there been something that can be learned this is the first question the second question does the community feel the right to grow or to develop is it necessary by the Moratorium so I'll read this first so the parents rewetting then I'll ask who is it what is the public opinion that is left in the pit is it necessary as a potential for mitigation of the climate change but the situation is still low what is your opinion so this is a special question for Mr. Taman I want to explain the number of each composition if it is used for one hectare so earlier how many trees per hectare later there is a question to Mrs. Emanuela and Mr. Ahmad what advice would you give to other tropical countries with large tropical peatlands in those countries peatlands are still mostly undisturbed so to Mrs. Sinta and Mr. Ahmad what advice for other countries where the country actually the peatlands are still big like in the Congo the peatlands are still large and not yet they are still good for friends from the Congo what advice can you give here then there is a question for Mr. Adi what is the most lucrative egg product for you now planted derived from peatlands so actually in this condition what is the most lucrative to be planted in the field of peatlands is it carrot is it a fish is it a fish is it a fish what is the most lucrative and what kind of help do you need now the last this is the last so the the type of questions that have been told maybe now we one by one there is a question starting from the Congo so I will start from there thank you I would like to apologize for the interruption we have limited time so we would like to invite you to the panel with on time we are still 15 minutes ok so Mr. Ahmad there is a question what advice can be shared with friends from Congo thank you I will answer there are several questions one first what is the advice for the Congo people the picture is still good thank you I think there is no difference with the people in Indonesia it is the same but the issue of the forest that is said in the Congo is still good still forever it does not have to be like what is in Indonesia I would like to this is the advice also can be mentioned help because trees forests not only in Congo not only in Indonesia not only in the country it is actually that is the tree that can make the world unique unique by humans thank you Mr. Ahmad so the message is take care take care of the Congo don't get hurt thank you so from me it is very important for the government from the Congo to understand this picture and don't make a policy that is not based on the field practice only based on thinking but don't know what will happen in the field and don't know even the people there may be involved in the field practice and take care of the policy that is important to me so the advice for the Congo take care of the policy don't make a policy without taking care of the people thank you so much next question may I ask Mr. Agus does the people feel the right to build with the purpose of building a temple it is not it is not although it feels good because there is a temple protection because the development of the fish will be better in the past there was no temple protection until there was a little even if there was no temple protection just let it be we don't know so now if you know they even take care to not burn because it is very useful for the development of the fish so in this year the development of the fish means development in next year so it can be a good for the future so you feel that the government's policy helps because the fish can be in the future thank you so much may I ask what kind of support actually what kind of help is needed by your father to solve the problems that are encountered in this field thank you maybe what is really needed by the people maybe the first the same work between the government and the people because I will explain if it is okay because this is the biggest problem the problem is already broken because in the past the HPH was given to the HPH so it means the problem is solved it means it has to be restored it has to be cleaned so here we need the same work for the work the same work to solve this problem this is the mistake it is not the same it is not the same with the people it means the people of the world have to be cleaned by the government by the corporation in the future we need the same help so that the problem is not broken the same work the same work it means technology people or the work so we need technology and we need money technology and money thank you there are some answers earlier then there is a question maybe it can be answered by some actually it is related to what kind of plants is the most suitable for planting in the field maybe for this question I would like to ask Mr. Taman and Mr. Agus the same question based on your experience what is the best for planting in the field what is the best this we we are lucky lucky according to mathematics or according to the environment this is amazing thank you thank you if we are lucky according to mathematics we are lucky because of the market can we simplify it? then according to the environment we plant a lot of trees or plants called agroforestry let's do it together okay, agroforestry this is an example maybe agroforestry good so the lucky agroforestry thank you according to the moderator and the panelists we only have 3 minutes thank you what do you think is the best? I think we should let's talk about the local plants in my village because if it is not according to the environment the plants can't grow okay so we need a field which is better for the plants which is faster that is what we take based on your experience what is the best? there are some just one if you ask me to choose one, what is your name? Kayu Jabon okay, thank you very much thank you again, Mr. Ibu so the time is up maybe we don't need to make a conclusion because this is actually we are listening so please allow me to switch to English so ladies and gentlemen we have all heard today in this session the experiences the experiences of people who are living in the ground who are day to day living in the peatland and we have today we learned a lot about the experiences of the farmers and also Ibu Sinta and Ibu Sinta I think you have touched the heart of us all with the experiences and we hope that in the future the peatland will be conserved and Indonesia will be able to overcome the problems that we have been facing for some time now so in this occasion we would like to thank C4 for making this happen and we would like to thank all of you for being here and for being a wonderful audience and hopefully what we have heard today in this session will be of use to you and to everyone in the world thank you so much alright let's give a round of applause again for the moderator and all the panelists there is Emanuele Sinta Bapak Ahmad Tamaruddin Edisa Putra and Bapak Agus Nuraini thank you so much for being here alright ladies and gentlemen before we proceed to the next session I would like to remind you that we have no coffee break but there is refreshment delivered to your table and don't forget for the second session please participate in the discussion by asking questions you can write it down on the colored paper that you can find on your tables okay because we want this discussion to be very very interactive so please participate and without further ado we will start the second session titled Peatlands Around the World Challenges and Opportunities before I introduce you to our moderator for this discussion director or executive director UN environment Eric Zalheim please come up to the stage I've just returned from Central Kalimantan province here in Indonesia we were in Simbangal National Park and most beautiful place it's home to amazing creatures like the hornbill, the sunbear and almost 7000 orangutans the largest population on earth the forest man it's also home to massive peatland forest ecosystems that support these animals not long ago unfortunately Simbangal's peatlands were imperial between 1980 and 1995 over 85% of the forest was destroyed by illegal logging the draining and the damage will take a long time to repair but what I saw there now gave me a lot of hope Indonesian government led by Ibu City the environment minister is making efforts to restore water back into the ground and reforest the area and these efforts are part of a commitment from President Yokovi to restore 2 million hectares of peatland by 2020 a great goal and ambitious goal we need more efforts to restore and protect peatlands peatlands are found in 180 countries and contain twice the carbon of all the world's forests and they do more than help prevent climate change by storing carbon the peatlands regulate flooding supply useful forest products and they give a home to many threatened species when sustainably used they can also provide livelihoods for the generations to come but they continue to be logged and drained for agriculture slash and burn clearing is a cheap way for farms to do so but the long-term costs are huge when peatlands burn emissions skyrocket during the major forest fires of 2015 here in Indonesia burning peatland released more carbon dioxide in one day than the entire nation of the United States of America over half a million people developed respiratory problems children were suffering many can learn from the Indonesian experience the good and the bad fortunately more and more from the good and that's why you are here this week I encourage you to share your experiences improve on practices innovate on technologies and inform policies South-South cooperation and global partnerships like the global peatlands initiative are crucial for this for biodiversity for the climate and for people we need healthy peatlands we need a systematic event from the global landscapes forum there will be another step in achieving that worldwide alright ladies and gentlemen I would like to apologize for my mistake Mr. Eddie Zolheim is not here with us in Jakarta but that was a lovely video address from him and let us proceed to the next session I would like to introduce you to our moderator for the second session Dr. Justin Lee okay Ibu Ibu and young Thor Hormat ladies and gentlemen Slamat Siam and Salam Sojatra Bagi Kitesimua welcome to this plenary session on the challenges and opportunities facing peatlands around the world my name is Justin Lee I'm currently the deputy head of mission at the Australian Embassy and I oversee development cooperation for the Embassy can I say at the outset I would like the government to be able to support this conference and for myself to be able to moderate this very esteemed panel that we have Australia like other members of the international community here in Jakarta is very committed to working with international partners on better landscape management including peatlands we have an environmental governance program here in Indonesia and are globally working through mechanisms such as the Global Forest Observations Initiative the Forest Carbon Partnership Facility and the Green Climate Fund amongst others on today's topic ladies and gentlemen on peatlands around the world peatlands exist in at least 180 countries and cover between 3 to 5% of the total land surface area of the earth make up about half of the world's wetlands 90% of the world's peatlands are actually non-tropical and Canada has the most but 10% of them are tropical and of those Indonesia has the largest portion of tropical peatlands and mangroves other significant areas occur in Peru and the Congo and it's fantastic today that we have speakers with experience in each of those tropical countries and other experts today we want to invite our speakers to really address the conservation challenges facing peatlands we know as we've already heard from the speakers earlier today that they're in high demand for agriculture that fire is one of the cheapest and most preferred methods of land clearing here in Indonesia and that if this occurs unabated the range of issues which we've heard the environmental issues especially the social and health issues and impacts on local communities we'd like to invite our speakers to talk about possible solutions to these challenges to invite them to share their views on the policies and practices for peatland management and conservation and we balance those different needs of different stakeholders especially the people that live on those peatlands what are some of the alternative livelihoods what are some of the adapted livelihoods that are suitable on the peatlands and how the international community and private sector as well can be involved so ladies and gentlemen that brings me to our speakers who I would like to introduce and I'd like to invite them to come up to the stage first the head of Indonesia's peatland restoration agency he was appointed to this position before that he was Indonesian coordinator for the climate and land use alliance and prior to that was conservation director of WF Indonesia please next is Ibu Sonia Dewi Santosa Indonesia country coordinator and leader and senior landscape ecologist of IKRAF she's an alumni of the Australian National University which I'm very pleased about with interest in quantification of ecosystem services and landscape governance Dennis Del Castillo is director of forest management and environmental service program at the Peruvian Amazon Research Institute is more than 25 years experience working with local communities on environment and development issues especially in the Amazon and African countries please Dennis Peter Pierre Tutti is the head of the council of the ministry of sustainable development forestry economics and environment from the Democratic Republic of the Congo we're very privileged to have colleagues from the Congo and last but by no means least is Gerald Shimalewski president of the International Peatlands Society IPS is a non-government non-profit organization called Peatlands, Meyers and Peat Gerald has been recognized for his outstanding work on Peatlands over the past 25 years please so ladies and gentlemen I'd like to first go directly to our speakers and invite each of them to make opening remarks over five minutes can I first invite Pat Nazir to address us and to comment on the lessons in Asia Pat Nazir you're welcome to come up here or you're welcome to speak from the chair as well Pat Nazir Thank you, good morning first of course thank you for the community C4 gathering all of us and inviting me to share our personal opinion about peatland resolutions let me start by saying that we all we all know what happened in 2015 the imaging fires with a haste and it's very comforting for me as an activist when we learned that the Indonesian government I guess for the first time fully realized that peatland fires do worse and peatland should not be open all remaining peatland have to be conserved protected the remaining healthy peatland so exactly what we do all the government levels so but we have half of our peatland has been degraded and open we have about 15 million hectares of peatland about half of them are still intact we're going to protect that and half of them has been degraded to many levels and the challenges for now is for us to not only protect the remaining but also how to bring protection to the region but some can be for cultivisions shifting of the cultivation practices unedited but the challenge of course a lot of that area has been licensed out with very legitimate license so a transition period and transition scheme on how to put those cultivision area which have already have valid license can work out as the same time as the restore I'd like to share with you also that in the last 12 months we are very pleased to learn many local wisdom and practices by communities of farmers in Kalimantan in Sumatra that I spend most of the time whether in the west Kalimantan central or east Kalimantan in Sumatra in Jambiryao or south Sumatra farmers have been using peatlands for cultivision I agree with what Eddi was saying I've also seen it in other areas in Sumatra like in Riau or in south Kalimantan where people use the slice and burn in the past and there was never a problem even in peatland but situation changed ecology changed because a lot of big canals being open not only by Gafun number two I learned that also farmers actively rewetting the peatlands not only so there's two ways to rewet the peatlands one all the canals which have been built and drained are blocked so dams are built I've seen communities with the support of NGO of course government also doing that by building constructing the well the deep well and suck the water and rewet the peatlands in their own plantations during the dry months and it can be pretty effective in 2015 some of the area of peatland belong to communities were not burned while all the neighbors peatland have been burned the reason was because the water was available I also learned that from a part of Pataman and also other communities in Kalimantan that started not using fires no longer slash and burn maybe we can call it slash and rope so they still slash and open the scrub in peatland but instead of burning it they apply the decomposer and within three weeks all of this foliage above the ground have been degraded and become fertilizers it's like manure back to the soil we tested that a few months ago in Santa Kalimantan without putting any dolomite or kapur after one month of slicing and putting the decomposer we saw the pH from four raised up to six only one month by using this actively decomposer that's also learning from the farmers in the Kalimantan so there's a lot of local wisdom on how communities have been living in the peatland and practicing cultivations that are suitable with the ecology last point I'd like to share with you is that the restoration of the peatland need a very detailed mapping of the science is needed here in the beginning I made a very easy assumption let me tell you this the experts told me that if we have to close canals we need to build the dams in a spot wherever we find 50 centimeters of altitude difference so you put the dam here you go along and measure the topography whenever you find a 50 centimeters lower altitude you build the second dam and so on and so on if you go to peatland area you see it's pretty flat there peatland stretch kilometers and kilometer is pretty flat of course it's not flat because there's a peatdooms and so on so it's easy to assume that the slope from the peak of the dooms that we can't see it the slope is very small and the slope is quite consistent I mean easy to assume them so if we have a canal stretch for example 4 kilometers and then the altitude between kilometer 4 and kilometer 1 also was 4 centimeters then if we want to build dams every centimeters difference is easy by you need to build 8 dams 4 kilometers 4 meters of width 8 dams and 8 dams multiply evenly every half a kilometer one dam, another half a kilometer another dam, another half a kilometer another dam but once we map it scientifically with laser there's no other case there is a stretch that the slope goes very steeply compared with the other slope I mean not steep because everything was flat but when you measure it it's much much sleeper than the other one it turns out that even in one side the dams were only 4 meters apart in another side it's the same dam was 1.2 kilometers apart 3 times further away the mistake could be made easily if we don't do a detailed mapping so to do effective restorations in rewetting by building dams detailed mapping has to be done and that needs science that needs technology it's quite offensive it's quite time consuming I'm really looking forward with the scientific community to help us to do a quick mapping efficient and cheap thank you Thank you very much Mr. Nazir I think there must be a lot of questions for Mr. Nazir I think Nazir will probably have a lot of issues because he wants to be a father but maybe we won't be able to go back to Portania to see him we'll come back to questions later may I next ask Ibu Sonia to address us Ibu Sonia I think we've already heard a lot this morning including from the previous panel about adaptive technologies that the local community is taking directly I think we'd be very interested in hearing from your scientific perspective and from ICRAF's perspective what are some of the adaptive technologies that you've been working on some of those innovations and how they can help to incentivise local communities to adopt such innovations as well Ibu Sonia Thank you very much thanks to the organiser thanks to the Global Landscape Forum to be hosting this very prestigious and I think it's very comprehensive sort of learning forum I think we have seen the communities here we have seen the policy makers we are now also seeing some scientists, some researchers also from private sectors so I think this is a very good occasion for us to learn together so thanks so much to GLF for organising this so basically in addressing the question given to me like what are the role of knowledge and research in pitland use decision making we actually look at the knowledge domain as having three particular components one is the scientific components or modelling components the other one we have been hearing this morning about the local knowledge which is very rich as well and then the other part is also the policy domain which is very important so as you see in the slide basically the very first component is about the basic fundamental scientific understanding about the ecological function about the ecological process of how pit emission has happened and also followed by that there are actually the drivers we have been listening a lot from the communities this morning but also the drivers the tele-connection between the pitland degradation with the global markets is not yet explicitly said so basically there is an elephant in the room that perhaps we need to address so the attribution of the pitland degradation fire and also emissions should be researched properly actually the social complexity the interaction between government private sectors and local people here sometimes also include migrants on top of the indigenous community so this all social complexity needs to be understood in so far what sort of policies that are necessary to be there so the very first component there in the left hand side is the understanding the scientific and research and knowledge and then in the top of the right hand side basically you see the grey box basically this is putting all this knowledge then we have the second question whether are we willing to act and then the next question will be are we able to act the willingness to act basically within this future a couple of years past in Indonesia basically we see that the willingness to act is there we see that partnership with the pitland restoration agency is now very much active very much funded and supported by the government and also by other institution so I think the willingness to act is there with pitland emission reduction is very big part of is there so I think willingness to act is quite strong at the moment and then also the voluntary and mandatory norms of behavior of private sectors we can see in the past two years at least that the commitment the willingness the plans that private sectors zero fire zero deforestation is there so I think the willingness is there but the next question is are we able to act within this we need to put pitland in the wider context actually what is happening in the pitland landscape basically is not completely isolated from a development agenda at the jurisdictional level or the landscape at the broader landscape level so I think within this the integrated development planning having their local government to be part of discussion to be involved in the beginning of this pitland management and restoration is very important and we did hear this morning about the community in East Kalimantan have been working on land use planning this is very important but putting land use planning in a broader context at the jurisdictional level will be important as part of the ability to act and within from this actually then the actions can be happening the action date and the action research what are the options for community and also private sectors and what are the role of government in terms of pushing or promoting the tropical pitland to be restored and to be able to support the livelihoods of people that live around that areas and we did that also the options of restoration needs to be really understood whether it's ecological restoration is necessary to be there to get to restore or to recover the pitland into the most pristine nature condition or whether there is some degraded function that also includes the production needs to be restored there so so nation is very necessary there I'm glad the pitland restoration agency has put a lot of emphasis of mapping of which as well the so nation of the function within the pitland landscape is also very necessary and within this I think just to conclude within this knowledge domain there will be a lot of interaction between this scientific knowledge domain local knowledge domain and also the policy knowledge domain and this is not a linear sort of process but there is a lot of interaction a lot of looping and within this I feel that we need to do this together we need to communicate this well so like for example Pat Nasir has been mentioning we need this particular maps to understand basically so the relevance or the salience of the research we are doing is very important what are actually the policy makers need what are the local options for restoration need what sort of information so the relevance of research is very important otherwise we will just keep writing and of course the credibility is important for research and also another part which I would like to commend the pitland restoration agency is the legitimacy of the research that has been happening we know that there is a lot of volume of literature of research on pitland but I think the subset of what has been produced by the local national scientists or researchers is quite small the portion is but I think is also working in supporting researcher at the national level as well to contribute a lot to that so with that I would like to finish thank you thank you very much as we have indicated one of the real purposes of this conference and this session is to share the international experiences and thank you very much and Sonya has considerable experience and both lessons for the international community but also we hope that here in Indonesia also Indonesia can learn from some of the lessons that are occurring internationally as well and so can I next pass to Dennis and the Amazon as one of the areas with very large what the situation is in the Amazon Dennis and how it is being the same similar issues that are faced here are being addressed there so very grateful Dennis for your insights good morning Salam aleikum thank you very much for invitation I would like to share some approach that we are taking to the Peruvian Amazon and it is part of the life of the Peruvian Amazon we are very lucky that we have some plants over there that are well used I would say I would mention in Spanish we call this Aguaje that grows very well in the Pitlands and people in the Peruvian Amazon they love it and it's part of their life it's part of the economy so we are lucky we start keeping that piece of land that piece of Pitlands that we have over there even though in the past we have some problems with all plantations and body rise but we are lucky I mentioned again that we have that plant that everybody like it that fruit is fantastic vitamin A more than carrots and it's part of the economy so the approach that we are taking is how to manage those big Pitlands over there we are talking about 5 million of hectares of Pitlands that means economy that means food that means wildlife that means money so that is the way we are talking about over there we are doing markets for that fruit in that way we believe in Peru it's going to help the economy of local people we are going to preserve those environments at the same time we are going to give economy to local people so we believe that we could be winner and winners everybody but also there is something that we learn trying to we learn that those big Pitlands has huge huge amount of carbon below ground that helps very much if we we have some numbers for example in Peru we can mention that we have about 10 gigatons of carbon in the forest in the Peruvian forest 3 years ago only 3% of the Amazon forest we have 40% of carbon storage on the ground we see there is a huge picture there is a new opportunity to look for not just to solve the local problems but also to do a lot of mitigation climate change so there is a huge opportunity that we have over there in Peru we are looking the way no to tell you frankly we are not looking for carbon payment we are looking for how to manage better those Pitlands that we have in Peru in that way local people is going to help us they are going to be benefitted directly for that management of those Pitlands I guess I believe at least in Peru we believe that we could be a witness in terms of forest management biodiversity conservation mitigation to climate change thank you thank you very much Dennis and I think we would really like to come back to some of those issues around how to engage local people for that most effective management of the Pitlands can I now pass to Mr Tati from the Congo and again we have Pitlands there but largely unused at the moment or in their natural state and very interested in the plans that your government has for managing those in the future Mr Tati thank you I intervene in the name of the country the Republic of the Republic of Congo I speak in the name of my country I speak in the name of the Republic of Congo and the Republic of Congo and the Republic of the Congo and the Republic of Congo are there two tropical countries there are two tropical countries two African countries two countries of the Congo're passing and both countries they have been working around Congo they have been working around a lot for decades for a long time In the context of the contribution to the fight against climate change. And these countries have done a lot in terms of the sustainable management of their forests. And these countries have done a lot for the conservation of forests. They have done a lot of work internationally. And today, the actions that have been carried out in these countries. They have shown that a lot of progress has been made in this way. But we want to maintain this dynamic, we want to go further. That is why we have appreciated the Global Initiative on Forestry. That is why we are here in Indonesia. And here we have seen a lot. We have heard a lot. In these two countries, we have forestry. But forestry is still in use. But in the short term, in the medium term, it is very possible. There will be interventions that will be done against this very sensitive environment. Especially by mining and oil exploration. And maybe other forms of valuation that are not yet known today. Compared to that, our presence here in Indonesia allows us to see what could be the problems that would arise tomorrow, when these trees or Congo will be valued. Because in Indonesia, it has been happening for some time. And here, we realize that the main problem is the fire problem. That is, when water is not well managed, it induces droughts. That is, when the water is not managed properly, it will be dry. That is why it causes fire. And we also understand how this problem has become a drama for this country. We have seen in the movies, in the videos. But this morning, it is even more serious. We see that there are people who talk about this with a sense of emotion. And we are told that we do not want to live for the same thing. That is why we think. That we will have to incentivize our compatriots to give awareness to our surroundings. To manage these disturbances. But we will only be able to do it effectively. Without associating the country that has already done this kind of thing. And we think that in our respective countries, at least in terms of race, we are encouraging them to follow the path of the Indonesian experts. And maybe even Mr. Taman who was here, and Mrs. Sinta, maybe Mr. Taman here and Mrs. Sinta will also be able to share his experience. We think that research has a great role to play in this. It has a very important role to play. Because to be able to build a high awareness, you have to have data, you have to refer to very precise knowledge. And that is the research that can be provided to me. We also feel what we have seen on the field. In the ingenuity of local populations, in the case of the fight against the incendies. We also appreciate what has been done by local actors in order to reduce the fire. We have seen how local populations try to create channels with dams to irrigate the turbines. And we also see how local people are building channels and dams to irrigate the water so that they can control the water against the incendies in a good way. We also appreciate the implications of local populations in the case of the restoration of the turbines. We also appreciate how local communities play their role in protecting the environment of the dams. We appreciate the fact that we are entrusted with a science of tree planting. And we also appreciate that we can achieve the benefits of keeping the dams. And we also appreciate the implication of the government. And we are happy to realize that in Indonesia, the management of the turbines is coordinated by the law and by the legislation. And we are also happy that in Indonesia, the support of dams is also supported by the government. All of this deserves to be capitalized in our countries. All of this deserves to be taken advantage of to share in our countries in the case of the management of the turbines. All of this deserves to be taken advantage of to share in our countries in the case of the management of the turbines. And of course, our countries see developments that are still needed. We need to be accompanied. We need to be assisted in the development of dams. Of course, we need to be assisted in the development of dams. But also from the development of dams. Because our commitment to preserve or manage these spaces. Because our commitment to preserve these dams. We need support. Especially from the financial point of view. So, I hope that our commitment to move these dams is not forbidden. President Kolem Indonesia, for this opportunity that you have given us. We thank you to Indonesia for this opportunity. And I thank you for all of this. Thank you very much. I think that we have had a very good experience in this area. We have had a real good experience with the local level. To be sharing experience. Clearly, there is a large scientific research need on various aspects as we have heard. But also a strong desire. And that communication from the local level, making sure that those experiences are heard. Ensuring that the scientific research that's done is consistent with the situation on the ground. having the communication between the different levels and having the communication between the countries is clearly very important. And a difficult thing, clearly to do with the number of different stakeholders that are involved in this issue. I'd now like to pass to Gerald from the International Beatland Society. And I'd be interested, Gerald, in clearly your work and your observations of Beatlands internationally, but also the role of your organization in some of those support that it can provide in the area of science, in the area of communication, in experiences of the Beatlands as well. So please. Yes, hello, ladies and gentlemen. As representative of the International Beatland Society, I'm happy to be here. And I was just a little bit surprised two hours ago when I was told I was not gonna or allowed to give the presentation that I prepared, but to come up here and to speak to you. So I'll do my best. And I was also told that that presentation will be online so you can see that then later on. The International Beatland Society has three commissions. These commissions are based on economy, environment, and society, with three pillars of sustainable development. Within these commissions, there are expert groups on agriculture, forestry, restoration, climate, culture, people, and a few others. So the International Beatland Society covers all aspects of Beatland, Beatland use, and Pete. Looking at the situation in the world, it has come to a stage where we're thinking differently. In the past, Pete and Beatlands have been used intensively. The country I come from is Germany. The first written statement about the use of Beatlands is about 2000 years old, written by Plenius the Elder, a Roman who traveled throughout Europe and wrote down everything he saw. And he wrote that the people in Northern Germany and East Frisia took the mud with their hands and formed it and dried it more by the wind than through the sun, because there was not much sun up north, and warmed their food and their guts. And since then, in Germany, Pete lands have been used. In 1765, Frederick the Great proclaimed an edict saying that we want to get rid of wastelands. Pete lands at that time were wastelands. And during these last 250 years, it was the goal of the government in Germany until 1981, actually, to drain Pete lands for agriculture and for settlements. That means for people. As a matter of fact, it was part of the Marshall Plan after the Second World War to drain Pete lands for agriculture and settlements for the 1.5 million people coming from the East who were driven out of the Eastern territories of Germany. And they settled in these Pete lands. So Pete lands have always provided things for people. It's the case in Germany, it's the case in Canada, it's the case in Indonesia, it's worldwide. And the situation now is, you can see it in the graph that I have. It's one of the 30 slides that I have in my presentation. This is the only one we're gonna show now because of time constraints. You can see that of those 3 million square kilometers according to Lapa Linen, I heard by our moderator this morning that it's three to five million cubic meters, square kilometers. I don't know where these figures always come from. Figures are something that you can twist and turn sometimes the way you like. But according to Lapa Linen, 1996, we have four million square kilometers of Pete lands worldwide. And 86% of these are still undisturbed. And I assume that they will stay that way because they are in areas where people don't go to. On the other hand, we have agricultural Pete lands, Pete lands used for forestry, tropical Pete lands, 3% for tropical Pete lands. Pete lands are also used for energy in Finland, in Ireland, and in the Baltic States. But that is actually restricted to those countries. Pete lands are also used for the production of growing media. And that was actually the topic of my presentation today. Growing media are very important in Europe. Actually, the Dutch government said that that is an indispensable material for Dutch horticulture. Dutch horticulture is the second biggest industry in Holland, in the Netherlands. And it is a very important commodity, like water or like fertilizers. If you take Pete away from the production of growing media, you can forget horticulture in modern times. And that is a situation in other countries as well. And that's why the Dutch government said we need a certification system to certify that the Pete that we are using comes from areas that are not natural. And that is one of the systems that exist. There's one in England and there's one in Canada. And this commodity is most important. And I wish that we in Germany or maybe the people in Holland and Europe all together would be in the situation that you are in, in Congo or in Peru or in other countries where you have just discovered Pete lands, because then the stakeholders can sit together and talk about how to use or not to use Pete lands. In Germany, we were not in that situation 250 years ago, when Friderick the Great said we have to get rid of these wastelands. But now you can sit together and talk about these things, all stakeholders. And stakeholders have to be included in all discussions. And I would just like to bring forward a message and I'm quoting something that was said in 1992 during the conference in Rio, I'm quoting the UN. Protecting, protection of the environment is only feasible if politics consider economic and social aspects at the same time. If any pillar is weak, then the whole system of sustainable development is not sustainable. Thank you. Thank you very much, Gerard. And once again, thank you to all of our speakers. I'd now like to move to questions. I have some questions from the floor already and we will ask questions directly. One of the questions I think we'd really like to move to, we've heard a lot about and directly from local communities and local community involvement, farmers involvement and smallholder involvement. Certainly here in Indonesia and interested in experiencing more elsewhere around the world, the private sector is very important in the management of peatlands here in Indonesia, both in terms of using them currently and clearly needing to be part of the solution to the management of peatlands. I guess I'd like to direct this question first to Pat Nazir but certainly interested in experiences from elsewhere in the world. I've got one question here on that topic of the private sector which is calling it the elephant in the room and I think that's very much the case and probably the element we haven't addressed yet. This question is saying, do we have to limit private sector's access to open peatlands, including requiring them to have policies that perhaps aid local communities first and apply technologies to empower local communities? Also, how do we hold the private sector accountable? I think, yes, there's a couple of other questions that relate to the private sector but maybe we'll focus on those questions first, Pat Nazir. What is the approach towards the private sector, particularly in the Indonesia's plans to restore the peatlands here? Okay, thank you. First we have to see that these private sector concessions on peatland, where they are located, is it in the important peatdoms or not the peatdoms is a shallow pit and so on. Second, what state of that peatland meaning that what kind of crops have implanted or not? So on peatland which is part of important peatdoms which have not been opened that have to be protected even by the concession holders. If they are already open but not planted it need to be restored. If it's in the peatdoms inside the concessions but if that is already open and planted then we require the companies to embark in the improved management practices of putting the water table at the least four centimeters below the ground and putting equipment to measure the humidity, to measure the water table and so on that would require the companies to manage the water table meaning that they have to install gates at their canals that have to close and store the water or release the water bit by bit if there's too much rainfall to keep it at 40 centimeters at the least. We hope also we request the companies to also testing new crops that can fit better with the wet ecosystem and we are also doing research and see if that better crops meaning more suitable with wet ecosystems can be planted in that area during the time of the concessions license. If the company fail to do so and if the peat become too dry and caught fire during the dry seasons the government will put a very strong enforcement to the company so that's what the policy is being made and we are pleased to see many companies come forward and ready to do better water management improving the water management, welcoming academics, researchers to work on that. We are also exploring on how communities can be involved in the activities. Of course in community land we're going to help them but also if communities having claims in the concessions on how that claims can be resolved partly by involving communities doing the resourction and doing agroforestry that fit better with the peat ecosystem. Just maybe just a related follow-up question in terms of the government's moratorium and in terms of some of the laws around the prevention of the use of fire where it's not permitted, how is that going and how is that ability to enforce some of the laws of the moratoriums that have been made going particularly in relation to the private sector? Monitoring is very important either by the satellite images that we have to look and analyze although from the field checking often we got reports from communities, from NGOs on what's going on on the ground about a new canals being open, important peat swamp forests are still being hacked down we're going to check on that of course and if the report is confirmed then the law enforcement officials will brought in. It happened several times already in Kalimantan or in Sumatra if you follow the news since last year I believe after the fires, tens of companies have been sanctioned by the government several levels some company totally revoked the license they lost the license some companies were really giving up because they come and see so for those companies you have not have huge investment although they have already the license they realize the policy changes at least I remember two companies gave up the license and give it back to the government because they believe that the investment will be too difficult to be made to get the return. There are also companies which have been frozen by the government and the government giving them a list of activities or action they need to do if they fail to do that they may lose the license if but if they can comply the frozen status can be cancelled by the government. There are also companies which have been worn and watched closely by the government so several different states on how to enforce it. Maybe just Dennis, I don't know you mentioned both having palm oil development in the Amazon but also these alternative livelihoods and alternative crops. Has there been experience in the Amazon in working with the private sector and if you could provide us some background on that. Yes, there were some experiences with all in the blue the Amazon. I remember when I was a child I was so proud to help sort palm oil, clear land, to help the tractors and do all of those things. That happens of course in small areas but the government was quite responsible later, say well you did already over there but not do anymore in those areas where we have a lot of big lands. So, but as I mentioned there were local products like Aguaje, which is a very important crop for local people. Also for the economy of those big cities, for example in Quito, where I live, has about one million more person. The city eats about 20 tons of fruits of Aguaje every day. It's a big market for that local crop. So what we are doing right now is trying to develop, invite investors, business people to go off for further, looking for new markets for that fruit, looking for ice cream market, looking for different refreshments, like different things open in different places, improve even outside. Of course, but we are working very hard in terms of management, that piece of land.  So, the private sector is playing a role. Hopefully they can do better job in terms of looking for new market for that local crop, local plant. But there is something else I want to mention. When we are looking for big land management, in Peru we had a big mistake. We believe that the forest, that they do their job. The agronomies, they do their job. The fishermen, biologists working in fisheries, they do their job. But the point is, everybody has to work together. Big land is an habitat that goes together, everything. And also it's important to know about the local knowledge. People from the forest, people from the big lands, the indigenous people, they know exactly how to manage the biodiversity. Of course, science is going to help very much to understand. We buy different institutions. For example, Singapore is working very hard over there to understand the issue, how the problem, how to improve it, and also some universities. So, we were talking about big land management. It's not just a matter of forestry. It's not just a matter of agronomies or biologists. We have to work all together in order to find a better way. Thank you very much, Dennis. A question here, and I'll continue to take the questions off the pieces of paper. So if you have them, please write them down and send them up. I have a question to Icraf and to Sonja, saying that in your perspective, from your experience, how do forestry and agroforestry industries and related technology and knowledge transfers, how have they worked in peatlands protection and in peatlands restoration? So, I think the question is asking, what are some of the forestry and agroforestry technologies that have been particularly effective? And that might include, as we're touching on the topic, might include either smallholder or private sector as well. Please. Thanks for the question. Yeah, actually, Agroforestry has been seen as one of the options of having a sustainable peatland management by smallholders. So if the question is whether it's potential for agroforestry to be one of the management options for sustainable peatland, then the answer is yes. We have seen that the success story in some of the areas. But when the question was, the question is about agroforestry industry, whether agroforestry managed by large scale companies, whether it's feasible, the answer is we haven't seen it yet. We don't know how that happens. But I think the feasible solution here is partnership. So we see within the government, the current government policy, social forestry is huge. The Ministry of Environment and Forestry has set aside, I think it's almost 14 million hectares of areas, part of it is peatland within forest land to be managed together between local people and the companies as agroforestry system. So we see, for example, for the forest plantation, pop and paper industry, then 20% of the areas of concession should be managed under the partnership in the form of agroforestry within the forest land. This is a new sort of a breakthrough in the past, basically forest land, as forest land has to be managed as forest, agroforestry simply doesn't exist in the policy of forestry in Indonesia. But this is now, I think it's a good news, it opens up a lot of opportunity basically. So I think, as well, reflecting to what Najib has said about several, you know, very stringent kind of monitoring of fire with regards to private sector or with several private sectors has now lost their concession and some others actually then give up and give back. I think at the interest of development in a broader sense basically, if we see there's areas where pit land can still be managed sustainably, then I think we together need to make it workable basically between the government, private sector and the smallholder because for development, I think more or less we still need investment to be happening there. But of course we need to do it sustainably which area, which zones within pit land can still be managed. But also I would like to underline here that sustainability standard of all palm of which then RSPO, ISPO has been there. I think there has been a lot of sort of compliance, the demands from the end user, the demand from market for a greener product is already there. So I think all these actors basically can should work together to make it sustainable business, sustainable development, sustainable livelihoods. And I mean, I think this is still workable but I think we need to work on it together rather than finger pointing to each other but we try to find a solution that is working. And I think agroforestry is one of those and I'm really glad to see this morning in different context like for example, in Central Kalimantan compared to East Kalimantan compared to South Sumatra, what kind of agroforestry option is there which is suitable for local context has actually been identified for example, by Pataman, by Paedi, by Akus and what we so far has a bit, leave it out a little bit is fishery. Fishery is also important. So we see that sometimes the solution of sustainable livelihoods within the Pitland area is not always focusing on the Pitland itself but also the surrounding area. So I think again, partnership, communication and take this as a look at this as a wider context of development and environment to come up with a sustainable landscape and sustainable livelihood is important. And agroforestry can be one of the options. Okay, thank you, Sonia. Just a slightly different question. And I direct this to any member of the panel who might have an insight but the international community, which is what we are part of, Australian Government and other members in the room as well are very keen to cooperate with countries with Pitlands on this issue. We note also that there are sources clearly of international finance. Resourcing is important if you want to conduct research, if you want to do science or a restoration. There's been talk around sources of funding, particularly in the climate change space around red funding. So funding for the rehabilitation of forest lands and I'm sure Peatland areas can be included in that. We now have the Green Climate Fund established internationally and there's other sources of funding as well. Often though it seems that the international resources have difficulty getting to the ground and making an impact and countries including Indonesia, sometimes the programs are not being delivered here, they might be in other countries. I'm just wondering what the, if you have insights around what are the obstacles to that type of international assistance or international finance, is it needed and how can it perhaps, we can remove the obstacles so that that type of assistance can help with this issue here in Indonesia or in other countries. Nazir? Yeah, thank you. Very important subject. First of course, the massive, ambitious targets from the president, Indonesian government of Peat restorations and sustainable development on the landscape level that needs a lot of corporations and resources. Particularly on Peatland, the planning of the program has to be based on what we call the Peatland Hydrological Landscape Unit. It can cross two or three districts or inside one districts, yeah, but it have a Hydrological Landscape Unit. So if you do something in this part, inappropriately it will not affect only this part but the whole landscape. This is the Hydrological Unit. So planning on that and then of course there is a part where government have to take it's on their hand, right away, I mean, hands on. There's a part that community will be given access and do restoration or cultivation of agroforestry and so forth. The parts of the land where corporations will be invited for investment or improving the existing investment and practices. All of that I think need to be done in a mix of government funds, of grants like GCF or other international funds or bilateral but also with investment. I think the most challenging part is now how to blend investment and how to get more interest of the public, of the private funds from the investment to put into a one vision of this kind of landscape. Government limited resources and donor funding or multilateral funding will never be enough because of the big challenge and the big landscape we're going to work. It can be unsustainable if the business options on that area for restoration and also for economic return can be made. So we're looking forward to not only getting funding to do the work on the ground for restoration but also how to create a new economic opportunities with maybe development banks in the front and then followed by the private financing. Thank you. Pitland policies is very important. I guess every country has to have a very strong policy government to preserve and make pitland restoration. But there is something very important. Pitland solution is I would believe in my knowledge is quite the specific solutions. What is very important is to share those experience because it's quite different. Even with Peru for example, the Peruvian Amazon is quite big. There are different situations and what we are doing is just sharing what we can do with a guajiguan place, what another plant in other place. But it's very important to share experience. That happens in Peru. But also it's very important that we can share experience within other countries. And I believe the policy is very important. We have to have very strong policies in order to have good restoration and conservation of those pitlands. But at the same time it's important to share experience. I hope in the future, I hope over here I can invite some ice creams or cream of aguajig fruits. They are fantastic. I like it very much. I imagine over here a few people know it. But that's, in that way, we are going to preserve those pitlands that we have in the Amazon. Thank you, Dennis. How much? Do I have 15 more minutes? You still have. How much more time do we have? Five more minutes. Just returning to the issue of science and we had one question here. And this may be, again, directed to all. I think, but Nazia, though you did mention this, but what is the largest scientific gap in the peatland restoration effort? And again, I think this is a question for all, maybe in your different theaters, your different countries and places in which you're working. But if you had maybe the top two scientific needs, what are they? Yes. What we really need now, at least for the case of Bergen Indonesia, I mentioned about how important to have a good map in constructing the restoration program as well as sustainable livelihood, surrounding, and so on. And that is based on the type of the peatland. Is it part of the important peatdom and how deep it is, how shallow it is, and how the hydrological function in that whole area, that will enable a very good planning and program on these different land uses and then just implement. Now, to get that map is possible, but it's time consuming and it's very expensive. Satellite image is good to cover or radar to look on the forest cover, vegetation cover. And then LiDAR, very expensive, is great for the topography detail mapping. And then for the depth of the peat, it's still you have to go there and with the muscle to core on the land. And it's time consuming, it's very expensive, manpower, intensive, and so on. So how can we get accurate enough mapping but less time to carry that out and also cost less? Number one, number two, I still believe that with the NDC of every countries and the carbon emissions that can be reduced from peatland and the carbon stock, carbon sink in a peatland, is one of the future commodities, the carbon credits. So also a very good science on the calculating, the reduced carbon emissions from peat restorations of peat rewetting as well as of course keeping the forest, the peatstone forest, not to be converted. I dream like one day even using our smartphone, our technology, you know all this analogy, you know all that sizes of shirts, different in almost every countries. So if I go to Peru, if I wanna buy a shirt, I may have to re-calculate what L and M and S. Can we be one day using just a smartphone, the shopkeeper scan you and write away no, oh, okay, because of this size, you fit in this size in our store. So that can also one day that we can have error photograph or slide type looking at how wet the peat and how dry the peat is and it's converted into like the, how much carbon is stored, how much carbon is reduced and so on. So the technology in estimating quick and accurate enough. I think these two things of the mapping and then the estimation of the carbon stock and reduction will be great contribution. Thank you. Gerald. Sometimes I have difficulties with terminology when you talk about restoration over here, it seems not to be the same as the restoration that we are looking at in other places. The government over here in Indonesia would like to, or that's the goal that you have, to restore 2.4 million hectares by 2020. That's another three years. In Germany, we've been doing that in particular in the federal state of Lower Saxony where I come from and where most of the peat extraction is and most of the raised bogs, those are different peat lands than you have here. We have managed to rewet 15,000 hectares in 36 years which is, for us, it's a lot actually, but in your perspective, that's minimal, that's nothing. I think what you are looking at is not restoration right now, is rewetting. And that's why hydro management is the most important thing when you talk about this upper goal of restoration. Restoration means actually bringing the whole peat land back to the natural state that it once was in. That's restoration. And if you say that you want to rewet 40 centimeters under the surface, that is not actually restoration, that's rewetting. And you will still have subsidence because of the microbiological decomposition of the peat in the top layer. You have air, you automatically have microbes and you have oxidation and degradation of the organic matter that you have there. So looking at restoration, you have to bring the water level way up to the top, maybe just a few centimeters below the surface and then you can possibly restore, but it takes a long time to restore a peat land. Yes, I agree with all we are talking about. Really science, we need methodologies to know exactly how much peat land we have. One thing is flooded forest, another thing is peat lands. That's very important. I guess science can go further and maybe later we can exactly manage how much peat land we have. At the same time, I agree exactly with the restoration. A peat land is not formed in 10 years, 100 years, it was formed in 1,000 years. So the restoration is going to be quite different. What I want to mention is something in terms of policies. If we want really to manage peat lands, we have to have good policies. We have to work in terms of land tenure. If we don't work in land tenure, I don't mean the titling, I mean land tenure. I guess a person, whoever it is, it is a farmer, it is a local people, indigenous people, they are going to preserve it. It's important not to see as a wasteland, it's important to see as resources, natural resources where you can find different things. You can find fishery, you can find fruits, you can find different other plants, you can find forest. It's important to work in terms of land tenure in order to preserve, to conserve those peat lands. Otherwise, it's going to be difficult because if the land doesn't have owner, nobody's going to take care of it. Thank you, Dennis. Now I'm not sure if I have time for one final question. I'm sorry, the time is up. It's time to hear your closing remarks. Okay, I know, partner Sierra in particular, there were many questions from the floor there, but you might have an opportunity over lunch to talk further about some of the details of the new peat regulations, and I think there's questions around that as well. Again, I won't try and wrap up such an extensive conversation, except to pull out a couple of key points, and clearly there is a strong interest to share information around peat land science, peat land management, restoration, and that's an important task that needs to be done within countries and between countries. Given the numbers of stakeholders, it's clearly not an easy task, but a very important one. Not just looking at local communities, but also looking at the role of the private sector and how they are engaged. Looking at issues such as, I think, Dennis emphasized markets for some of the alternative livelihoods or some of the practices that can occur on the peat lands. And as partner Sierra mentioned when we're talking about financing and resources, looking at making those sustainable, again, accessing finance and funding from the private sector. And clearly there's a very strong interest, once again, in the science and technology and in sharing experiences in those areas. So we hope that today you've received at least a brief insight into some of the issues of engaging on peat lands around the world and here in Indonesia. And once again, can you join me in thanking all of our various team panelists for their contributions? Thank you. All right, thank you to Mr. Justin Lee as our moderator and all the panelists. And ladies and gentlemen, we will start lunch soon from 12.15 to 2.00 p.m. All food served during lunch is vegetarian. And I would like to remind you that there's additional activities during lunch and throughout the day. And there's exhibitions and landscape labs. Please reference your agendas for location. And breakout sessions begin again at 2.00 p.m. Please keep an ear out on the bell that we will ring when the session is about to start. Please stay with us throughout the day as we have a peat, meet and greet, social networking activity planned for the evening. I'm Krizia Alexa. Thank you so much for joining the morning sessions and have a great lunch. Thank you.