633 focus of tonight's meeting and we're going to have a report card report from Elijah Hawks I'm going to have a facilities plan update But first I will and let's first choose a meeting evaluator. Does one of you want to? Is one of you willing? Thank you Sure, if you'd like So I just want to welcome all members of the public does anyone want to make a statement now Okay, so the first item on our agenda Lane is a brief report on on the community event with Calvin Terrell Happened a couple of weeks ago. I guess now. Yeah, and I may be able to throw Elijah and kind of Into the conversation as well Calvin came in for two days On the 27th. He spent the morning Going into classrooms interacting with the faculty interacting with the students to get a feel for what? The faculty and the students felt were the major concerns in terms of school climate And that kind of helped him to create the presentation that he did for the students at the end of the day Presentation he did was about two and a half hours to two hours 22 minutes the students were attentive I think The impact of it was was pretty powerful given the number of students that kind of came up at the end to kind of say their Peace and clear the air between themselves and and and the other students some a lot of them kind of apologize for things That they may have done over the course of their lives the folks that either were in the audience or that weren't present Considerable turnout After school of students hanging around Having a nice conversation with Calvin on different issues and then the next day was actually kind of interesting He came in and he worked with a cohort of students To try to carry on the good work to take kind of what they had learned about the school The issues that they were seeing with the climate and try to find some things that they could put into action to improve The climate at the high school in the tech center And so I was in that morning First thing and kind of walking by the library where they were centered and there were probably 20-ish students in there Went by around noon and there were probably 30-ish students in there and by the end of the day the library was full So they pulled together a pretty good plan He did a tremendous amount of professional development with them and the follow-up is actually tomorrow At 11 o'clock the last hour or so before the half day The students and the faculty are going to get together and start to try to Map out how we're going to implement the parts and pieces that they planned with Calvin So I think it was a pretty good impact. He also did the community evening Which probably had about a hundred and twenty folks there, which was a very good turnout A little bit more than we expected and we had quite a few folks that were from other communities as well Got a lot of emails and the days that followed From folks that had attended it. I kind of open some eyes and change some lives. I think so Questions or thoughts or other comments? Talk about pedagogy curriculum Students value real language and not skirting around issues Opportunities to face their real emotions and want writing prompts about meaningful issues Students ask that teachers incorporate social issues into curriculum bringing Issues into classes and making connections between them and what the class is about There's an opening there for for us educators to talk about Relevance and personalization In our in our classrooms, and so we'll be pursuing that a bit tomorrow in a workshop that I'll be leading that dovetails with the work of being a trauma-informed school because part of working with any kind of human being and In particular someone who's in a high stress or fight-or-flight kind of situation is being able to honor who they are Reflect back to them that you see them, which was a course of Calvin's presentation I see you and so a personalized curriculum where you reflect back to the kids the real world and the real emotions It's one way of actually honoring who they are and helping them understand that the school sees them The school understands their trials and tribulations and actually there's an outlet for talking about Validating those experiences through the classroom if we do it. Well, it can be very very powerful Calvin did it in two hours a teacher can do it over the course of a semester and similarly perhaps even more powerful ways some of my two cents Dotton Another teacher Josh are also here Students or among students I think that I can echo I hear pretty often That they like to talk about real stuff that isn't necessarily the most comfortable stuff to talk about and I think the more opportunities we can pull in I think the more service we do to our kids Well curriculum, I mean I can talk about verbs and nouns in French class Or I can use language to ask them about their experiences and there's I think a pretty large divide in the approach of one teacher and another when one teacher sort of Teachers the curriculum they they covered the material But they're they really it's an artificial experience for students and that's Maybe what most students experience because we tend to feel a lot of pressure to cover a lot of Material and there's and some of that real language that real talking Like what's real? Talking about real issues like real personal issues where they get to say what they think give their opinions say what's difficult and Let's say Do you study that only in the 1930s or do you bring back here to Brookfield and talk about what social What what social welfare net there actually exists in Vermont today and where there are gaps in that net and which families are experiencing? What right now so it's about connecting past the present and the present indeed right down into the home and the life If you can do that carefully it's very very powerful teaching there. I think there's also the The idea that in America by and far we live in a bubble How many of you have had to flee your homes because of the war that's happening or the civil war or the cleansing groups that are Driving through in an army and taking out certain people in your neighborhood. It doesn't happen But it is a predominant force within the world Kind of outside of the US and to be a little bit connected with that and try to understand where the roots of that come from So hopefully, you know that understanding allows us all to grow and be a little bit more more forceful In the work we do to try to prevent it from happening Various sides in the debate about gun rights and gun control and she remarked to some of the hosts of her visit that You can't even talk about guns in her school where she works now so One school can make an effort to sort of connect to real-life contemporary topics and other school could choose not to Same in any given classroom, but not shying away from stuff because it's uncomfortable is what I think they're getting at With the real real line Yeah, it's good question Lane just to follow up and I had mentioned it to you after the presentation I thought it was Incredible and really well done one of the take-home messages for me. I mean amongst many of the take-home messages Was you know how some of these patterns get set at a young age? And so I really feel like there's an opportunity as Appropriate recognizing that a lot of the information that was shared is really geared towards high school age and middle school Age students, but I wonder if there's an opportunity to kind of explore how to begin to introduce some of these ideas or some of these approaches You know to bringing some of the world-worldness if you will into elementary schools and you know into the kind of the primary curriculum as well Beyond my skills at the present time to do it myself, but Calvin is capable of coming in I talked to him with him a little bit in the last week Of coming in and doing training with the actual faculty to help with that at that age So it is a possibility I mean if if I had my druthers the hope would be to bring him back every other year Allow the students that have not had the opportunity to go through the presentations with him to do that He actually has a series of two or three that are for the students And so if he came back, you know every other year at least at the high school middle school level by the time they're Seniors they all would have experienced all three And it kind of keeps that fire lit But at the same time it's the opportunity to come in and interact with the actual faculty and provide some skills that May not be there in some comfort with with difficult topics, especially around the idea of conditioning It's a wonderful idea To say this is challenging we're going to step into it a little bit here It's going to hurt some feelings and that's we're going to try to tend to that People need permission and encouragement also to talk about race to talk about health care talk about guns Talk about rape to talk about, you know, like you're gonna go there. You need support and encouragement and permission No, I don't I don't mean I don't mean policy type permissions, but I mean kind of moral support They actually have the structure for it now that their advisories are a safe space to have these conversations And then the the the few that I've been in and out of that the students are very open To discussing some pretty tough things And that's an indication of the good work that they're doing it is a safe space for them to have these conversations They feel comfortable doing it So that they've already got a structure in place They can expand it in a lot of ways, but they're one of the few that that does it as well as they do So very impressed with that Let's move on to the The report card report And then there's actually so Elijah Elijah's going to talk a little bit about the state of the standards based report cards that they've been working on that came about as a mandate a little bit from the state of Vermont and Dot is here as well We'll actually give an overview of teacher ease which is one of the tools that the high school has been working on and piloting As a means to deliver the the standards based report cards to the parents So we want to thank them both for being here broader context of this broad transition to proficiency based graduation Randolph Union, which has been underway for several years now and I also want to share a Short video from it's just a two-minute video from an organization called the mastery consortium And I want to share it with the group because I it's important. I think to remind those of us in the public schools that There's a nationwide shift happening here and that actually fairly quietly behind the scenes some very powerful private school players Are shifting the conversation about college admissions? And so I want to just make sure that people are aware of the mastery consortium where schools like Dalton Chote Northfield Mount Hermann Exeter those schools are going to be driving this conversation, too So the fact that a little state of Vermont is moving away from a traditional kind of grading assessment and reporting is not an aberration Of some sort of like hippie lefty state. This is like a this is a massive shift That's underway in the public schools as well as in as well as in the private schools This is a great website They have a ton of resources some of the resources that they have on their website are the same resources that the AOE has been sharing with Vermont educators from the great schools partnership And they also have some nice two or three minute videos. I'll show one here just just briefly for us to have a look at So this is mastery consortium It's a lot of interesting stuff here. Some of you if you come to other sessions with us this year You might have seen this before There's a quote from Voltaire Those that can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities There's more than a few absurdities in the system We use to assess credit and transcript kids and present them to colleges One is the absurdity that colleges face with the pressure they have as a result of college rankings like the US Knudsen world That forces them to inflate their inquiry and applicant pools Which is one of the reasons there's so many kids applying to so many colleges and getting so much bad news The other is the high stakes testing and the high stakes college testing and what that does and what that means for our kids As well as our industrial organized school, we're still organized around the industrial production model We do things like overvalued content instead of skills and character We teach one to many teaching say gen estate teaching We have small time blocks 50 minute blocks in a schedule as if everything can be taught the same amount of time And we separate biology and chemistry. Why do we do that? Because we've always done that at least for the last 125 years We also tell kids that more is better more AP's More co-curriculars more more more in order to present themselves to colleges The effect that this is having on our kids is pretty significant But maybe the most significant is the five-point letter grade system Which has been over a hundred years old has now been pushed and corrupted to really a two-point system 50% of all the grades in American high schools last year were ace So in the minds of our kids, there's only two grades a and not a This puts an enormous amount of pressure on kids Not to focus on mastery not to focus on what they're learning but to focus on that letter grade So here you have some educators saying it's just we need to take a fresh look at how we grade the competitiveness the ranking If 80 years ago only 15% of grades were a's and now it's 50% across the nation a doesn't necessarily mean what it used to mean let's take a fresh let's take a fresh look at this One of the organizations that's supporting Vermont in their transition is the Is the great schools partnership and they provided this very simple model that we use to to think about the different elements There are at the top of the pyramid here in the middle. You have graduation Let's see if I need my pointer their graduation standards content area graduation standards and cross-curricular graduation standards are transferable skills and then graduation standards get broken down into performance indicators You know, what are the eight or ten different things that mean your proficient in that standard and then your performance indicators get broken down It's even more specific learning objectives for a particular assignment. So a project in French class What are the specific learning objectives of that French class assignment would might be different from the specific learning objectives of an upper-level? Spanish class, but they might actually fall into the same performance indicators and standards I brought this grid in this this pyramid and so that you can see that they also Discuss the reporting methods Teacher teacher feedback often in class and through a grade book is one way that students are going to get feedback on the learning objectives Those aren't going to appear on your report cards. They're too granular But your performance indicators and your content standards probably are going to appear on your report cards And then on the transcript you you may find that you're reporting out on the on the on the bigger buckets the Standards themselves. So it's a useful pyramid that we refer to Occasionally and it gives some sense of what kind of information is encouraged to put on the on the report card Our purpose statement in making the shift which we crafted of three or four years ago is that Educators family and community members know that students are ready for the next phase of their lives borrowing from the OSSD and statement When they can fluently and creatively demonstrate their knowledge and skills through the completion of authentic Worthy tasks as measured against public and rigorous standards Some principles of proficiency-based learning at Randolph Union that we've been articulating over the past couple of years again This transition to a new system of grading assessment and reporting is causing the Collective educators at our school and across the state to step back from our practice and think why are we do? Why are we doing what we're doing and what are the best principles that ought to guide us? One of them down at the bottom is that reporting and communicating must be must happen with clarity And that's something where we've been struggling this year and we know we need to make improvements Recording on student learning must be done in a way that is clear specific and understandable to multiple audiences That should resonate in the room when we start to hear from Dodd about Why we're why we're entertaining a new software for for grading and reporting because what we have right now is not clear Specific or understandable to multiple audiences the teachers on the back end have a fairly good sense of What's going into this to the grading system? We're using now, but the report cards aren't spitting out anything that is terribly clear actionable for students or families So principles like this will guide us to make improvements Just a bit about what students are doing this year as part of our work There's a captain's council group that's taken a fresh look at extracurricular eligibility Which which currently is tied to?   Those are the kind of things that if we can assess them with some clarity and with some consistency The students are advocating might be used to determine extracurricular eligibility in the future Our YATS group that is youth and adults transforming schools together Has been asking and has been attending some of our leadership team meetings and department meetings where we're talking about this transition They met with a group of five central mont principles in the fall to explore Some of these questions and educate themselves to some of the reforms and share their feedback And there are teacher students involved of course in this teacher east pilot that doc can share a bit more about Again, that's the more day-to-day grading assessment and reporting that happens in teacher classes Parents have shared some support for standards based grading and some parents find standards based grading confusing Or how we're implementing it and managing this transition to be confusing Many parents are frustrated by the conversion from our standards based grades the 1234 scale to the 100 point scale Some parents have taken it upon themselves to reach out to admissions offices And we're comforted to hear that this shift is understood at the post-secondary level And some parents are are indeed eager to transition away from the 100 point scale and get to something simpler That that is more in the realm of the standards based practice Teachers have been developing performance indicators for each graduation standard The aoe provides a model. We've been using that as a point of departure Many teachers are eager for a transition away from the 100 point scale like some students and family members are There's frustration with our current tool teachers have been working in departments to unpack and align curriculum to standards and performance indicators Teachers are involved in the teacher east pilot hearing positive feedback And teachers on our leadership team are closely involved in charting the next steps in our transition Which will include work on report cards and marking periods So this year we've articulated performance indicators We've redesigned our transcript shared it with the administrative cabinet of the ossd for approval And it's something that will better affect our proficiency based approach But it's not a huge departure from the way transcripts need to look for colleges to gather information I'll share that with you in a handout that we may or may not have time to discuss tonight But it'll be there for you to have a look at We've been piloting the one to four scale very rigorously in three departments and some variations on that scale There's a pilot of a 2.5 or 2.7. I can't recall exactly but dot will provide specifics And we're piloting this new grade book software our next steps include Developing more commonality for grading and reporting More commonality in terms of our formative and summative assessments That is the work students do that is practice and may not need to be Graded in any final way and then the summative tasks which Encapsulate the learning in a more kind of high stakes way in terms of in terms of grading that needs to get Some kind of a some kind of a score. We need to develop some commonality around that across departments and within departments And we need to determine what our marking periods and report card formats will look like Next year So in this handout that I have I'll I'll I'll share it with you And ask you just to flip through it briefly before dot comes comes up and if you want to plug in right now you could What I want to show you is what I want to tell you is that we haven't developed the next model of the report card That's what the next five or six months are going to be for What I'm sharing in this package after you get through the the draft transcript is a sample report card from Montpelier High School It's a one pager Yeah, you'll see that it's you'll see the one for scale that's that's on here You'll also see that's a one pager. I want to I want to show you some of the variation of report cards So this is a one pager. In fact the data is about half that page And then you flip to another school that's using a different program. I think it's from a program called jump rope It's from the howard center and it doesn't look unlike some other more traditional high schools one two three four pages of Of data on their report card Then you have a couple of samples that the that the That the folks at teacher ease have shared with us from there from their database Again, it's a one pager Another one pager. You'll see variations on language numbers Letters and what kind of information is provided That's what we need to figure out as our next step the transcript that's going to go to colleges provides relatively little information What courses did you take? How well did you do did you complete them with honors? Did you complete them or did you not successfully complete that course? That's what the transcripts going to communicate and you pair that with the school profile and colleges can see Oh, the school offered these courses. This student took these courses. That's what the transcript will Communicate gpa can be calculated as needed for scholarships and other purposes On the other end is teacher ease where the amount of information Could astound you the amount of information that teachers are trying to manage so that students can have a clear understanding Of how they're doing so transcript relatively little information off to colleges and others Teacher ease the day-to-day grading assessment reporting communicating an abundance of information to help students Teachers advisors case managers family members know how the child is doing in the classroom And then the report card is something in the middle report card is where we decide. Okay. What of all that? Are we going to print out and send home? It's not going to be as simple as the transcripts going to be somewhere in between in terms of its granularity And we're still trying to figure out what's the best amount of information to communicate at those Marking periods whether there will be four of them or whether there'll be eight of them We're also studying what other schools in the region are doing to determine what the report cards might look like So I'm not here tonight to share. This is the new model But I'm here to share like this is our this is our process and what's informing I think And doc can share what's where we're headed in terms of the day-to-day data Which will inform also what we want to try to pull out and put onto that that report card Thank you So this goes back to probably guess last summer at least in my At least in my part of it and we were we were trying to figure out how we could Turn this complicated proficiency based grading into something that The outsider or a student could look at and say oh, I get that Okay, and the tool that we have now just wasn't quite making that easy if possible at all So we just I'm a firm believer now all of a sudden and if you look for it. It's out there on the internet somewhere So I just we just did some searching and this looked promising and so I guess it was probably june of last year we've kind of been Flirting with this software just to see, you know, what it's all about and what can do and that turned into a pilot There's a small group of extraordinarily wonderful colleagues that I'm working with in this pilot and We have a great system of checks and balances. We don't all see everything philosophically the same way But that's kind of why it's great So teacher ease is it lives online And just like power school does but it works with school databases for student management and one of the things that teacher ease can be valuable in doing is helping us in Some of the more complicated transitions that are a part of this move to Proficiency based grading So one of the really complicated things and we've talked about it lots at school is that the shift In your mind as an educator is that And it and it scrambles the brains of many as student and parent when When they don't have a chance to get a really thorough explanation of it But we have shifted from giving assignments and giving tests and giving homework to Turning in the tests and the homework and the assessments and things like that are kind of the package that carries The skills and we really have transitioned or we're in the process of transitioning to a change in our practice where we are Grading or scoring skills that just happen to be in the form of an assignment So a student would for example in the old system say, oh, what did I make on that test? Oh, you made a 93. Yay. Well, what does that mean? Any number of things they can hide The absence of a skill in a 93 that 7% could be something very critical But that grade looks great. So this is one of the problems with Averaging so one of the shifts that we're making is kind of in how we're thinking about What we ask students to do and then the information that we give students and parents So overall the pilot was to help us make that shift with a tool that Sort of intuitively knew where we were going with that. So There were features that we talked about for a very long time as a staff and this is sort of my Dot Goulet ease Shorthand version of what everybody wanted And we were looking at a power school pro and school a G of teacher ease and some other things that are out there and we wanted to Sort of compare and see what What functionality each of those would be giving us and so we were looking for something that Made rubrics or scoring guides available to students and parents so they could see the criteria by which they're being measured and scored And school a G has that we're quite short. There's an asterisk there. It means that Nears we could we couldn't really determine. Yeah, or nay, and it was maybe it's there, but it wasn't super obvious so A link from the standards and The performance indicators to assignments that's clickable This is probably the biggest complaint that parents and students have is that Power school is separated into two worlds and those worlds don't talk at all with each other. So A student can look at their overall grade, but they don't know how that grade was arrived at and so they have to click over to The standards based side and they can see what they're getting in the standards But there's no indication of which assignments those Came from so that's been a huge sort of frustration for all of us involved So Teacher ease has both of those which was tremendously exciting The transparent parent and student portal, which is the same pretty much as what the teacher sees That's another major complaint is that the student portal and the parent portal for power school They don't give you all the information that I see when I log in as an educator We we have a lot more information. That's not secret private information It's really valuable information that Parents and students ask us about when they go in and they look and it's frustrating That's just not there because it should be so we we did find that that is also available. So Not required but kind of gravy is a learning management system Learning management system is sort of like what google classroom does One of the drawbacks of Google classroom is that parents can't log into google classroom to see what's assigned and things like that So that's been another one of those so Any of these later on if you want to ask a little bit more, but you can see that overall Teacheries tended to stack up rather nicely against the other two that we looked at And even though all of these are not Required it does have a good number of features that would make my life easier and certainly Students and parents would be a lot happier with that level of information Oops So the major functions that we found to be super About this pilot is that obviously you can grade skills and you can indicate that there are grades on skills Rather than assignments now assignments are still listed, but an assignment could have Three grades because that assignment tests three skills So there's a calendar and an agenda view that gives Sort of a day by day and i'll show you kind of what that looks like in just a minute There's also a communication module which Um, i've sort of discovered by accident But it was you can send internal messages to students to parents to teachers and they can do the same thing Just all in the interface of teacheries without having to go out to their google email or other things. So It's it's It's a good thing Okay, so disciplinary documentation Also a gravy piece if I decided that little doddy gulay was naughty in class And I wanted to just document that whether or not I wrote a pink slip or an office referral Regardless of that I could still document that and notify parents just by clicking email parent And the student could also get an account of what Is alleged to have happened Um, and then of course the learning management system I can assign Work to students and I can embed a video for example. I can attach documents. I can have them read From a document or a reading passage and then Go and complete work in another part of the system if I want to do that all online I can do that I can also create quizzes things like that. So these are all like extra cherry on top type things, but that some of the Pilot teachers have opted to sort of check out and some not so much so I have a quick question Please so if if you're doing that attaching things or having to watch a video It seems fine for school because they all have access to a computer and they have good wi-fi, but How does that? You know go home with students Well, it's not any different from the situation now Um, one of the the good things about this is that we are all one to one now And so they can access much of that at home. I mean at school at school But I'm just wondering so that's just school based teaching that you're talking about For the most part it would have to be For students who don't have access we generally know who those students are and we try really hard to sort of accommodate that when we know But this is going to be an age old problem at some point in the future that these are resources that we expect students to access and There are going to be students who are disadvantaged and don't have access as easy as other kids. So In that case, I would say Maybe I have two and I do check at the beginning of the year and I sort of update myself frequently and they will be Very clear about the fact that they can't do it at home or they have that internet or Whatever it is. So they live up a great big hill and they don't get service where they are and stuff like that. So yeah, we we're Sensitive to that sort of thing. So and it hasn't been a problem then it really hasn't I mean for some kids, but we do Not get surprised when that happens. We just accommodate it Anything else Um, so I was going to have a student come and share but she's under the weather So, um, she's way cuter than me. So I'll try to do my best. So When you go into the student Login the parent sees exactly the same thing that student does And there are four main areas. There's A button palette of the types of links that students or parents would use most often like grades and assignments and due dates Things like that There are menus across the top like your menu bar and any other Web page that would give you access to things you don't use quite as often There's a news feed, which is very social media-esque that would be a running Total of, you know, you've been assigned this and this teacher has graded that for you And don't forget to bring your permission slip and things like that.  It is a calendar, but It's more like a daily to-do list. So a day by day list of what assignments are today 9 april live And if I haven't done it today, it's going to show up the next day, too One of the drawbacks of a lot of calendars that kids have access to is that they see The assignment listed one time and it's on the due date or they list they see it twice on the day It's assigned and the due date, but if they're looking in that in between time There's a lot of things that tend to fall between the cracks. So This I didn't think that we're going to like that incidentally and they were like, oh, that's really good Because I just look today. I see all the stuff I have to do today Okay, so you like that The grades like I mentioned before They could look by learning target view and learning targets just another way to Talk about standards and performance indicators Teachers happens to use the the phrase learning targets Just as a catch all and you can see that in power school But looking at your grades in the assignment view You can't so this is one of the things that the students have all said Oh, this is good And I can tell you when I have them log in and I say, okay, click on view by assignment Across the room. Oh, they're so impressed. So It's great I'm just going to show you This is what it looks like When you log in now, this is my dummy account that I played with since last summer So there's some ridiculousness in here. I apologize So the button palette is the colorful area to the left The middle obviously is a new speed if you've done anything in social media You're familiar with that how that goes The top is the the menus with a digital locker for example A digital locker would be where I want to give a syllabus or I want to give a rubric And that all students have access to it and at any point they can just go access my digital locker And all the documents are there And then the right-hand side because this isn't really a live account that I'm using There aren't any events or assignments on that part But that's where they would appear and it Is a large number of the date Followed by a large number of the next date and the next date and then there Long lists of things that students have that are live assignments. So A couple of things I created this quizzie poo in the Teacheries and I can the student when the student logs in he or she can just go take that quiz And then I as a teacher can access what work they have done And I can score it right there It can score it for me and say that things are right or wrong But it won't put a grade in until I have had a chance to go back and actually evaluate that work There are a number of other things that are available, but that's all the lms side. So I want to show you What it looks like when I log as in a teacher, but I don't want to violate farpists I'm going to take my screen off here And log in and move the kiddo's names To the side so Pardon me Just talking off the cuff the student said yes, so when I got when I got the scores from my test back So it wasn't the test score It was the different standards that mapped into that assignment and each of them had their own score It was that little phrase that sort of like is that is one of the keys of understanding Why this is an important shift? So the test didn't have one bohem of score The students was talking about when I got the scores back from my test It was broken down in ways that she could see her specific strengths and areas for improvement They truly are catching on They catch on a lot faster than I think probably we adults do And we we forget how quickly they get it and we don't have to explain it nearly as long as we think we do So I will show you my french three Grades and this is um I haven't yet because i'm trying to move the the names away. Okay, please do No Okay All right, so this Freakishly colorful thing is what I see when I go into my standards-based grade book. So What you'll notice Because I will point it out Is across the top. I don't know if this is going to work. Elijah was much better at that than I am So across the very top, that's the main what we call the parent standard And underneath those are the numbered learning targets or proficiency Performance indicators and then under that it's broken down even further into an assignment What you'll notice is that you will see Quarter three podcast one is there quarter three podcast one is there and it's I think another couple of places because there were four skills in the podcast that I assigned my students So when I log in and I enter an assignment and I click the four learning targets for that It'll automatically populate the grade book with four places where I need to put a grade So it sounds like an extraordinary amount of work But I think the transition from traditional teaching to this is a little bit of a trade-off So yes, it's an extraordinary amount of work, but it's a different extraordinary amount of work from what we are already doing So I think there will be a few things that Are that we stop doing completely and we will replace those with other more solid practices. So What you can see is that there are colors and there are letters This is part and if you want to ask questions about this totally fine I'm not necessarily going to talk in a lot of detail about it, but we piloted a little bit of an expanded grading scale and The decision to use letters We thought because research suggests that We give feedback and we communicate Proficiency progress achievement growth development in a specific manner as possible That we thought it would be a good idea to pilot using Letters that stand for actual descriptions of that proficiency. So what you'll see is EP would be exceeds proficiency and this would automatically be Tied back to a rubric where students could see exactly what the criteria are for Getting an exceeds. There's also pH, which is one of the additional gradations that we added that's a proficient with honors, which is between proficient and exceeds because we know that The reality just is that if you're a three or a proficient You could be a proficient but almost an exceeds or you could be a proficient and almost Not teetering on the edge and students are all too aware of that reality as well So we thought it would be worth at least a look and a very narrow pilot to see what What benefit it would be to consider maybe even making a proposal to please let's do that There's also proficient Approaching proficient and then we added a couple more of the lower levels because We know that in reality you have students who have not done the work at all You have students who have attempted the work, but don't have any skills yet in the work We have students who attempt the work and have Some skills, but they they really are missing some major concepts And then you have students who attempt the work and are almost there But there's just some key component or concept. They're not quite getting so That reality is the difference between the one and the two And we feel like that was also a really important place to pilot some Expanded grading to reflect sort of what we really do see And that has gone. I think really well. This is not necessarily what we think we should You know cash in on but it's a really good start. I think in having the conversation about What it should look like The colors just correspond to whichever letters there are And And you can make all kinds of little oh, I know to the gray bar The gray bar that is oh, that's not working. Okay, right here I can assign Something as a revision and you'll see if you can squint you can see that that's a revision podcast That's a student who was not happy with His level of achievement on that assignment and rather than Having him redo it or saying you're stuck with that they get a chance to improve and Make progress towards proficiency because that's sort of one of the key tenets of proficiency based grading is that it's about growth over time And you can assign that only to that one student which is not something that you can do in power school, so That was something that I think we found pretty great um The other thing before I show you the other side of it is That Yes, will you be able to show us the student view? Yes So this is this is kind of overwhelming and perhaps in its detail But one of the benefits would be that the teacher can sort this in different ways And identify the specific students and the specific skills that that specific group needs to work on So you can be much more targeted in terms of your callback work or much more targeted in what you say to a case manager Of students on IEPs are much more targeted than what you say to a teacher who's going to call back students You can you can sort that um any which way and get some very precise information. It's less overwhelming It's less detailed on the student side Because if I were you I'd be wondering like oh my goodness. Am I am I a student that have to make sense of that? Yeah, this is crazy. Yeah, so I have just a little toggle switch and I can um go back and forth between the alphabetical view and then the performance view From highest grades to lowest as I can see in a given skill on a given assignment Who's really struggling and who's got it and can move on to something else? And so I think that's extraordinarily helpful so the Want to get back to the place where I'm not So the teacher view just really quickly looks just like the parents and the students except we have more buttons So we have more places we can go So while i'm pulling up the actual um learning target view. Oh While i'm pulling up the learning target view Um, are there any questions about anything so far because i'm gonna unplug again. So I don't Break a rule Are you sure I ask Is this the same grading structure? I mean obviously the proficiency based off But the one through four is that the same that's being implemented at the elementary school level as well that Is now moving to the high school. Is that most domains? The work the elementary school school is doing tracks the same standards that that we do at the high school level Okay, let's try and understand if it's it isn't a district wide Probably you know, it'll be the same grading structure basically With these proficiency I I figure what the four are But whether it it was one two three four Because you mentioned the expanded grading and that just got me thinking about I don't I don't believe that that's being done at the elementary school level and I just wonder if there's been any conversation I mean recognizing that you know, this stuff takes time and as you guys You know get your feet into this a little bit more. Maybe there's an opportunity to circle back to see if that's an opportunity The less students have to learn the system of grading and assessment the more they can just focus on the Right so the more consistency Right to get them consistent from the beginning so that you know by the time they hit Seventh grade they're already exposed to the system and they It's going to be a consistent loss of a transition. I think The work that they're doing at the elementary level on the common form common formative assessments is for the same purpose What's beautiful and I think kind of a little bit hidden here Is the purpose behind this it's this idea that it's not you tried it You didn't make the grade you're done. You move on. It's that improvement is possible You go back you can revise things you can retry things until you meet the standards And that comes into this kind of fundamental piece that we want kids to know is that hey success is really about effort Right, so it didn't quite you worked you didn't quite get there So work a little harder. You will get there you'll get credit for it You'll see it here and in the end what we're really building when we do that is the resiliency for the students, right? You guys talk about adaptability as a Of course standard. That's your adaptability It really is the more resilient we can make the students so that they realize their success In life depends upon the effort that they put in The more adaptable that they're going to be to the changes that they have to face And so that's really I believe at the core of all this And at least for the kids for the teachers There's some beauty in in terms of being able to examine You know what it is in terms of the higher level thinking that you're trying to get across to them Which is what the skills piece is all about But there's a there's a fundamental Layer underneath it all that I think it's it's trying to promote which I think is beautiful That is also one of the major Mental shifts that we have to make is that That you do need to account for both. One of the things that is really Prominent in the research is that there are three really important things in the efficiency-based grading that are found It's been really effective practices in grading and reporting and one is is what I mentioned before is is Communicating the achievement or the proficiency at any given moment With respect to something that makes sense to people that they can look at and they go okay I know what that means a three Maybe a three could be different things to different people But proficient is tied to criteria and that should be very clear. The second thing is that habits Productivity organization those softer transferable skills that those should be measured but separately and so one of the The real fun things is to to move away in my mind from oh, that's late. That's a 10-point penalty or You know 10 points for every day that it's late. Well that late penalty is still there But it's a separate report because there's it's not one of the content standards that says And turned it in on time. So that's a big bring scramble for a lot of teachers. I think but The third thing is that you have to account you have to document at least the growth over time And so what I'll show you is that in what we are piloting we're using a decaying weight calculation Which if you have a standard Like in french pronounces things beautifully And you have an assignment that tests that on monday tuesday wednesday thursday and friday What we have it set up to do is to decay the least recent one Out of the calculation of that so that the most recent the one on friday is weighted at 50 of the grade in that skill the one on thursday Was worth 50 percent yesterday, but 25 percent now and then we decay it to 15 and then to 5 and to 5 And then if I have another assessment on the following monday that previous monday It's there, but it's not used to calculate and so you can account very specifically for that growth And so we're finding that we I think we really like that We're not 100 convinced that the way we are piloting it is perfect, but I think that we find some value in Why the research suggests that you should account for the growth So just to show you last minute that when the student logs in and the parents see exactly the same thing So this is a parent main page parents also have a news feed Um, you can go to grades and I made these up. So these are all fake grades But this is what you first see as a default when you log in And the students know this already, but when the parents first see that they're like, but how's my kid doing? I don't understand what any of this means Well, the bold statements are the parent standards And This student has a proficient In both standards. So essentially what are my grades in french? You have a proficient in language acquisition behaviors and you have a proficient in communication. So This can be broken down Into the individual skills that have been Assessed and those can be broken down Into the assignments that made up the grade For the parent standard. So it's it's rather robust in terms of the information that you can get Another pretty great thing is They can graph their progress In a standard. So this student has Went up a little bit and then went down and so they're they're discovering my students are discovering right now that Well, you mean I can graph it. They think that's so cool. So Um, yes, you can Oh, look, I'm going up and I had actually Yelena and science her her big struggle was making a claim and they get assessed on that like 400 times a week and she's been struggling with that her evidence for the claim It's great with the making of the claim she's had trouble with and so she used this as her Example when she presented to some of the teachers and she showed her graph which Everybody was like, well, look at you. So she her her making a claim has gone up over time and she's really proud to see that so The other thing is that you can view this by assignment And so this is the view that power school doesn't do and it lists the assignment But you can see that there are grades For each one because each one is really just a package for the skills that are important. So And then you can look over to the side and See notes about those and how they did Yes Somebody who gets a standard right off the bat and is consistently You know, excellent at it It's a better score at the end of the semester than somebody who had to work hard and improved over time But ultimately accomplish the same goal at the same achievement of the standard And so they would not get as high a grade Even though ultimately they achieved the exact same result because they didn't get it as soon during the semester So I would I would be able to answer that two different ways. I'm not sure which one Would make people happier So proficient is proficient and if you exceed you exceed that's one way so On one hand, I suppose that it's possible given the philosophy of the teacher that if A student pronounces beautifully from the very beginning and is continuing to achieve At an exceeds level and then other students grow at their pronunciation at the end They would both exceed proficiency in the skill On the other hand, that would be a situation where I would probably suggest That a teacher give a student a more challenging standard to work towards That I think can be very valuable for a student who yeah, I got this. I don't really need That much more practice. Give me something more. So I think that would be an excellent opportunity For a student to get Something a little more challenging a different skill that they can then work towards And hopefully the reporting system will end so in terms of their productivity organization and punctuality It may be that the student who walks into doth's class fluid in french Is going to exceed proficient at the end of the quarter But the student who works really really hard and The student who works really really hard ought to have that effort recognizing their habits of work scores It's like you have busted your butt. You're getting fours in terms of your habits of work And Jean-Claude who walked in here fluent comes late But they still passes the tests like he's got a two in terms of his habits of work And you know what he's gonna have trouble being eligible for the basketball team because we're tying eligibility to the sports in terms of like You know your effort So hopefully even though in terms of that fluency standard, they're both proficient or exceeding proficient There are other ways that we're accounting for the kind of diligence productivity and effort that students are investing in their work So if you um, it depends on how many are the last five for well We would depend partially on how the calculation is set up for the pilot we set it up to Account fiddle five most recent and to decay the five most recent it could be set up a number of ways And that would be a philosophical conversation that would be pros and cons of just making a decision on how we want to do this so if a student let's call him Joseph is exceeding proficient and exceeding proficient his decaying average on that skill is always going to be really high a student who grows Unless their last five are all exceeding He will not have necessarily the same grade It could be that that student is a proficient honors at the end because they have Gone through some struggles in that skill. So it would depend on the particular mathematical situation. I think But in the end if they both end up in the same place then they would both end up with a designation of Complete with honors or complete with distinction and that would be essentially the same score Sure If it's not a decaying average The kid that's been growing is is really screwed No, and the only thing I want to ask and just try to understand so Is this decaying average weighted calculated? Um, is that going to be consistent throughout all the teachers? I mean, are the kids going to have the same experience in each class in terms of Understanding how their effort and their progress ultimately you know Looks in terms of how they're assessed We need to ensure that there's clarity no matter what cost What level of commonality to establish in all of that massive quantity of Calculation and detail is part of what we need to figure out There are things that we can decide on the administrative side of a program like this to lock in Everyone's doing it this way And then there are places where you click that button and you allow people variation And this teacher's going to do mode for this unit and this teacher's going to do decaying average Because they've decided that that's what's best for that situation. So we still have to figure out In all of the decisions that any teacher makes in a given semester to calculate a grade How can we map those out and understand them and then where do we want to have some commonality? That's part of the journey we're going to be on for the next couple of years And I've said this before I think to this group the reason why it's Can be hard to achieve consensus and commonality is that We're judging your children and You're judging how we judge your children and how we judge each other is among the most important things we do In any social interaction and we want to believe that we're fair And every teacher who puts a grade out there wants to believe that's a fair grade So if I question how she's doing it compared to how josh is doing, I think he's really got it down That's hard for dot to hear and that take we got to work through that So it's fraught with emotion these these these conversations But we absolutely need to achieve more clarity and we definitely want to achieve more commonality And is that what is the concept is it if the child can achieve And can be proficient shouldn't they all be Assess the same that they have all accomplished that same goal Regardless of where in that class whether it was middle getting middle or red I'm just trying to understand conceptually how we are using that to turn it into I I think I think dot made a good point in that it depends upon what the philosophy is If you decide on the one hand that all students who achieve the standard regardless of how long it took them get the same grade That's going to result in a response from the kids in terms of a change in their behavior If you choose to go the other way Philosophically that the decaying average goes into play. So yeah, you both got to the same standard But it took you longer to get there. So your score is a little bit lower That's going to result in a different change in behavior in terms of the kids So the question then becomes is what change in behavior? Do you want to get from the kids and which philosophy is going to get you there? And so that would be part of the the discussion to have when they get to that point And I don't think we all have to agree that I think there's a common Realm where we can all live with the reasonable decision of the majority I think there there are definitely some spaces where I might not think that's the way I would like to do it But I could I could live with that because I think it's fair. So I think that's down the road to make some decisions So any questions at all? I want to show you whatever you want to see but I think of And a lot of kids do too but they're starting to warm up to the skill because they know Now that they can look at the skills and say, oh, that's what I need more practice at because it really does pull that Specific skill out And it sort of highlights Where your weak areas are you can't really hide it in the mashed potatoes, you know So I think they're they like it a lot. This is the ua View but they're kind of starting to come around to the other one as well Which is kind of nice to see that they're sort of taking a little bit of ownership over the skills They're responsible for so could have learning targets up view up the other view and have Like if you need more work in this these standards you have Kind of like in a toolbox so they could go in You could in theory sure you set it up that way you can have multiple opportunities To practice on the same skill And students who have it may not need to spend their time on that and I think that that personalization is really important And that's something that this really kind of allows you to do more of There there are different comfort levels for teachers. I think because that's a fundamental shift in practice for a lot of people But um, but yeah, theoretically I think that would be you know, the gold standard The place we would want to go to make the learning more personalized and And therefore more relevant Does this take you a Much greater amount of time to go through You know this extensive reporting process for each student so The I will say okay super honestly not that I wouldn't be honest, but um just really candidly I think the shift for me is the planning and I am Struggling not because I can't do it because but I've been a teacher for 23 years and I've done it differently And so the the fight for me is the planning because I think we have to plan a little differently and That is taking me a long time To sort of get the hang of it to plan from the standard backwards instead of an assignment backwards, which is what I've been taught to do Um, I think it'll be a valuable process as far as reflective practice goes for a lot of teachers I don't know that it will necessarily take everybody the the length of time to shift as it does me because I've been doing it That way for a while, so Hopefully, I'll get the hang of it at some point before I retire, right? There's to me to depend on what the class is because English or you know where there's a written assignment. Okay, there are a number of standards within that but Compared to chemistry where there's like seven thousand assignments, you know And each one has this little itty bitty thing and one question for that particular thing or And and often they're the same like stating the claim and supporting with evidence and you know making the connections and all these things but That chemistry to me looks like super duper intensive in terms of the amount of work But I think it's one of those like fun things and so Once you have that mapped out for those, you know, serial assignments You know, it's like a lot of I mean, it looks to me like a huge amount of work The mapping is really the key. I think if you've mapped it out, you can give yourself some choices at the bottom echelons of curriculum What we, you know, we think of curriculum a lot of times is just the standards But I think when you map it through to instruction and practice and all these other things that are part of that I think there are a great number of choices for the individual You know assignments that you can give kids and those can be made More appropriate for some kids than others and you can also tear them for Super high flyers and things like that. But I think that's the key is to map it out and once that's done Whenever that is, um, I think it would be a lot lot less time consuming. So There's a this is kind of funny as we're talking about this because one of the concerns There's a beauty to this that I love but one of the concerns that I had kind of early on when I was first kind of looking at The first time and being introduced to it was this idea is the amount of time that you're putting in giving you An equivalent amount of benefit. Um, I think it will But we get back to some of the discussions at the state level about setting Staff and teacher or staff and student ratios. You want to run a program like this You can't do it if you're teaching 125 kids a piece You can do it if you're teaching 50 or 60. And so, you know as as You know, the state has mandated this. I think they need to take that into account a little bit in their budget discussions You can do it with a fewer number of students on your caseload, but above a certain point It would be very difficult. I would think I don't know but i'm guessing Well, thank you and feel free to reach out to any others for your questions that pop up I'm happy to come back when we have the next iteration draft of a report card when You picture back that grid that dot has her view. It's like what of all that information do we want to pull Or do we want to present it on the in the assignment view or the standards view and what granularity all of that we need to Try to figure out and and hopefully it will be an important decision. What goes on paper? but but but also that hopefully teacher ease will be working well enough that No report card is going to go to any student or parent and be a surprise because you've been getting more constant information And more real time all along the way That's great. Thank you very much for your presentations So next we have a facilities plan update Separate Letter that you have here. That's uh, that is actually for a vote That we had talked about that'll be coming up a little bit later, but I can give you an update kind of on facilities and kind of the General scheme of things that have been going on this year So we did have remember we had the transition at the beginning of this year to a new Kind of model for the directors. We've got two co-directors for facilities at this point in time And kind of what they're doing is they're they're going through and getting a good feel for where current Where things kind of currently stand What the state of the facilities are in And they've discovered a lot of things kind of along that way and I'll talk a little bit about what some of those are But there you can kind of think I would hope this first year for them is kind of an assessment of need This is where we are This is where we need to be and to be able to kind of pull a plan together over the course of the next couple of years That's kind of more long term, you know instead of doing stuff year to year We know that the roofs have to be replaced on the buildings every 20 years So let's plan that out now so that we know that we have the money when we get there We know the carpets after be replaced every 10 years if they're on a first floor 15 years on the second or third They can do that kind of planning, but they're not quite there yet in terms of of of what they're looking at When they kind of walked in And started to do this assessment There were a number of things that kind of over the course of time Weren't being maintained the way that they should have been A couple of things that have cost us some money kind of out of the blue that we didn't expect was the heating system at Randolph elementary There is the heating oil holding tank that's buried in the ground at Randolph union high school That was never permitted. It's getting to be fairly old now. It has not been inspected So that process is happening at this point in time to make sure it gets done So they're doing a pretty good assessment of things and and checking out to see see what needs to be done There's a lot of door hardware Kind of across the district that is wearing out, especially the panic Bars that are on the doors which are extremely expensive to replace Which is one of the reasons that request from the surplus actually made that 16 000 jump When we were talking about the security upgrades A month or so ago was because of the door hardware that was added to it There were also when they stepped in there were here some significant unpaid bills that hadn't been paid in six months When they walked in the door. So that had a dramatic impact on The finances this year in terms of what they were paying out So they're spending a little bit above and beyond what you would like them to each month But there there's some good reasons for it and we're still well within well within the budget Um A couple of other unexpected things is the uh, it is almost about time For a Randolph elementary It's to get it true for place So that's one of the things that's kind of in the planning process at this point in time They don't know that some other unexpected costs that kind of jumped into the the field of view here recently One of them was uh, somehow the well cap Here the cap that covers the well Was taken off and that resulted in having to get the new cap put on and then a Wide variety of testing done in the water to make sure that things were safe And good for kids everything checked out the way that it should But all these things, um, you know that they're spending money on a little bit above and beyond Goes down under policy 2.6 the idea of the asset protection Making sure that facilities and equipment Right are being maintained properly. So we're trying to fulfill that requirement of the policy A couple of things that are being worked on right now We had a discussion a little while ago about the the water at Brookfield About the fact that it's it's tough for the kids to drink the taste just isn't right So the kids tend to avoid it So we are putting that water under some additional testing and the testing company is also going to do some Looking at the records and get us of the well, which may have an impact Apparently kind of looking back. There are some significant records there They have done a significant amount of testing over the years But I don't think anybody's ever kind of compiled it taken a close look Bob and I Bob co-co facilities director Are both geologists by nature So we're hoping that when that information comes in it might lead us Kind of in a direction in terms of what might be up with a little water What the best way is to And I'll report out on that when we get that information The request piece that is there, which will come up for a vote a little bit later today We are actually looking for 97,850 dollars From the surplus fund from the facility surplus fund, which has about 2.4 million in it right now And a lot of that comes out of the security audits that were done And we also took a look at the safety survey and that people were comfortable with us kind of upgrading The security that allows access to the buildings. So what that money would support Is buzzer systems for all schools and then to revamp the I call it the atrium But the windows between the two front doors at the Randolph union high school They don't have a good setup in there to be able to kind of monitor people coming and going To put alarms on all the outside doors so that during the day if anyone, you know uses one of those panic Bars and goes out the door. We know immediately the door has been opened And it will also prevent kids, especially at the high school from kind of opening those doors to let people in From the outside, which they do quite frequently It'll add a one key or one button kind of system to put the entire building in lockdown in each of the schools So a lot of the classroom doors are not locked during the day And so what can happen is a person in the main office can hit the button can turn the key every door in the building immediately locks So kind of the the panic preparation there. That's also important, you know If something were to happen outside of the regular school day if people are coming in for basketball game at the high school It's not a time when there are a lot of teachers there But still if you need to go into lockdown, you can do it. You can hit that button doors or lock things are secured To make sure that we've got Access for emergency crews to be able to get into a building if it isn't locked down right now They'd have to smash through the doors So they'll be putting mechanical locks on the outside doors And then they put what are called knock boxes on the the sides of the building So the police will show up. They open up the knock knock box. They pull out the keys for the building and they get the doors open Usually there's other information in there too. If there's an emergency usually a map map of the school That sort of thing Upgrading some of the radios that the administrators use to communicate with each other Just to make sure that they've got more range The ones that they currently have are kind of old and dated and the wattage doesn't give them the range that they need To be able to communicate from one end of a concrete building to the other Especially at the high school or the tech center And then they talked about this which I think is a good idea is buying a few of those radios with scanning abilities So that if something is going on in and around the district the scanner will pick it up and relay that information to the Administrator so that they're not having to be in direct contact with the police about what Is going on they can kind of listen in And it includes Alice training for the staff Which includes three hours per person of training plus an hour online And then again, we kind of talked a little bit about this to replace the worn and broken kind of door Hardware there's a lot of doors that you can't keep secure Either they don't close after somebody walks through them because the hardware is worn Or they do close but you can pull them if you tug hard enough they'll pop back open So those are the things that that they're looking at replacing So that's what'll be up for vote a little bit later I also in the superintendents report did the discussion of raven. We did get back the quote From neigley and chase who was the company that built our warehouse So the what we're envisioning is this replacement of the raven building with a new facility on site It'll solve a couple of problems For us one of them being the fact that it'll get rid of the old building Which if we built somewhere else or bought another building somewhere else We'd still have to deal with because it's got significant issues in terms of mold and things like that that need to be remediated They came in with a bid Of 590 to 685 thousand and that would be to remove the old building and build the new I shouldn't say build. It's a magnitude Estimate it would still have to go up to bid so it may be slightly more or slightly less than that But in kind of looking at the program it sounds like a lot of money, but I did an analysis The raven program averages about three students per year when I look back over the past nine years Saves an average of about a hundred and five thousand a year And it's tough to identify that money because it's money We don't have to spend our budget for because the program exists We don't have to send those students out. So we don't have to worry about that extra hundred and five thousand a year And that hundred and five thousand a year that it saves us does not include the transportation costs Which would be another 20 to 40 thousand a year if we were having to send these students to a Different location to get the services that they need So the building would pay for itself in six to seven years if if we bought it, you know Um that program is currently self-sufficient We do get a little bit of rent from them. We get about 30 to 35 thousand a year in rent From that building where it is up. I did talk with with jim They are willing actually to expand the program a little bit, you know If they get the new building which which will help to generate a little bit more revenue How would we fund that we'd be able to pay for it out of our surplus or would we have to bond for it? So you have a two point fourish million dollar surplus in facilities right now, right? So you could pay forward out of surplus And that's probably what I will suggest and I will ask for at one at some point in time Hopefully within the next month or so because we'd like to get the work done This summer so that the kids have a new building in the fall The reason that i'm bringing it up now is one of the discussions that they're having In terms of education funding is they are starting to talk about limiting the amount of surplus funds that a district can keep I don't know what that means. I don't know what that means that if they pass something like that What will happen to the funds that we currently have that may be in excess Of that amount So my suggestion is is that maybe it's time to spend a little bit of it Get it down to a more reasonable level in case they do some drastic change in the law so that we don't lose it So it's it's money that's taken away goes back to the state And you know, it's not available for us to use on our students or on our district So i've got that in the back of my mind that that's coming with all the other education changes that they're talking about So when you say we get rent from that building way is that because Education funding changes Which piece did I did I miss I'm sorry now go ahead I'm not comfortable with spending down a fund just because we're afraid somehow the state's going to take it Do we have any indication or information from any source that suggests that there's Legislation that is going to be proposed. It's going to steal our money away from us They are talking about limiting the surplus funds. I don't know what that means Now spending the money just for the purpose of spending it down No, but I'm saying that this is money that would be well spent on these these areas And that's a concern in the back of my mind. I don't know what that's going to look like. Yes They are talking about it. They've been talking about it for a month or two Yeah, I my big concern is that that money is there for a reason and The reason is the state won't let us spend It they don't Give us any money for buildings When there's something really bad I mean, that's not why the money. No, we happen to have been fortunate right in the Crap shoot at budget Because remember when we set our budgets, we have Literally no idea about income. No, we're guessing about expenses and all these things So we do the best that we can So we happen to be in a fortunate situation Now some auditors don't like running surpluses. Um, you know, we have always Followed proper legal procedure taken proper votes on it and the community has Rightfully voted for us to put these monies in surplus because remember if if that were not done We would literally just lose our money to the state and it would be taken away from us So we are fortunate that we have this money But one of the things I'm a little bit taken aback is I mean, I understand Certainly we're even dealing with raven. We also, um, you know, the the safety You know inspections and the improvements that we need to make are certainly paramount and totally appropriate for the building fund However, um We are used to seeing the rolling report. That's a building's facilities report for every single possible You know improvement that will be needed in terms of the capital improvement for years And for example, sure, we know about You know, what the life of the Roots are and all that kind of thing So it's an awful lot of information to hear about all this stuff and a large amount of money that we're talking about in terms of You know Allocating at this point if that's what the board chooses to do and they certainly sound like many legitimate things, but Um, I I haven't seen one of these facility, you know reports We sent out a full 60 page engineering report on the other raven building earlier this year about three months back No, no, no, I'm talking about the comprehensive Building facilities update report that we've had for years Never seen one, but I can investigate and take a look at what was done in the past happy to I because I thought that we had done over that and we were we were looking for that from before because and maybe Now that Mr. McKinstree is not here that report disappeared. I don't know, but I know we have paper copies from the past Or and that's what we are normally The board gets on a quarterly basis in terms of keeping us abreast of all the stuff coming down the pike Um, so I'm concerned if Wes and his folks have to start the description on that, but I think we may have Some information and past reports from our board packets and that kind of thing If it needed to be recreated to whatever extent and I have uh, I have a feeling like I said a lot of it right now Is they're doing an assessment? I'm happy if linda's copies of what the old ones look like and try to try to mimic those and update them I think that's that's appropriate, but I do have to go back to the point that A lot of the situations that we're dealing with we're dealing with because they weren't taken care of at the time Um, so I I wonder on the value of that facilities report We've got some major issues that we're dealing with so I wonder on the value at least in the past of the value of those For some of these reports Even more reason to track down the information Because it was very comprehensive Yeah, and actually it's I think it's awesome. Um, because that's how it should be Um, so what uh, what I'll make the the promise to do is for next board meeting We'll take a look see what's there. They've learned quite a bit this year. So updating it should not be a problem Which I think was good So do we need to approve now this, um expenditure That you've suggested here this 97,850 So yeah, so if you're moving on to the board management, um, the governance piece, uh That would be the the first piece of that request that 97 And that's the raven piece was just for discussion just to talk um and throw throw ideas out there This is in the the one Sheet that was handed out to them So Lane actually went through this, um, I think right point by point. All right. This is all the The safety information and that he covered Beneficial questions too Yeah, anyone have any further questions? Um, yeah now these are this is a launcher list of different Um items to be installed or what have you that you went over the push buttons or all that stuff so Each of these had you know, it's like 10 grand here or 16 grand there are these All things that have to be bid or is this just our internal costs for the parts and pieces and where our people are doing these So they this uh, this will have to go out to bid The reality is is that We're not prejudging the bid But the main company that we are working with is control tech control systems To have somebody from the outside be able to come in and integrate this work into those systems would probably cost an Astronomical amount We're going out to bid because we are required to do so if somebody comes in and can do it for a more Reasonable cost and control tech it can do it and we're assured that the work is going to be of high quality That's what we would go with But this is the estimate right now if control tech were to do it But i'm more comfortable and I talked with robin about this just given how it's kind of piecemeal since it's all coming from the Same company in real right? It's 97 000 of the same company. It's appropriate to put it out to bid and see what comes in And so that is the intent I agree. I just don't know if this is a premature request Because this is in case it's more or less Yeah, and then we would have to read What what what we could do is vote but not to exceed And then there's also the other caveat too Is that if there is surplus money At the end of the year then we conceivably could pay pay this back So getting the money now after it goes out to bid would just allow us to start the work a little bit earlier There may be surplus money at the end of the year There may not so before that june 30th deadline hits when it has to be voted on to use we could pay back what we can What money is left over a year's end Okay, well the last time we did it it was if you ran out of money So it's kind of the opposite this one's a little different because we we were hoping to get some of the work done You know over like april vacation if we could they had been working on the rfp Okay, but here's the thing. I I don't think you can pay back surplus funds I was I was talking with robin. She didn't seem to think there was a Problem but i'm happy to have her check with with other folks that may be on the note I think that we should get some guidance on that Okay, and I just want to be sure it was something this important in terms of I mean for example if it's a surplus at the end of the year voters need to Make a determination about those months if it's after june 30th So if it's kind of okay, and it's just paying back, but on the other hand Let's figure out some guidance on it. I think okay Yeah, I know I said I think the logic was it not after july 1st when the new year Starts because that's when you definitely would have to vote at it But you know the kids get out june 12th june 14th ish Things are pretty clear in terms of what money is left over at the end of the current fiscal year that we're in And then that money could be used before that July 1st deadline to pay it back wasn't thought but no we'll definitely talk She's also i'll throw this out there since we're kind of talking about surplus monies We had another Probably seven kids move into district in need of special education services To a sum of about an additional Total additional of about 250 000 because the state picks up 50 of that it's 125 000 on us And so one of the questions when we were talking about this we've got it managed Within within our own budget. I give the the principals the cab that A tremendous amount of credit for coming together between friday and monday to find solutions to this But robin's also going to be checking to see if it's even possible to have a surplus fund You know how we divvied up into the three areas to add another area that is surplus for special education for Unanticipated costs because you never know who's moving in you never know who's moving out You never know what's you know what's going to happen from year to year you do the best planning you can Like I said, we did all the planning for the budget started in last october You know got done a few months ago and now we've got other kids that were anticipating coming in at a significant cost Well given the increase in cost. Are we expecting that we're going to be running a surplus issue? I thought we were The this current budget year Don't know so we can get a little closer From what I could tell when I was doing the financials taking a look at the financial report Is that how I usually break stuff down is I take the total dollar amount that we've got for the budget And I divvy it up by 12 12 months in the year and then that can give me a rough estimate is okay We're on track not to be blown the budget out of the water Or you know, we're really overspending at this point in time With the three months that we've got left in this year Based upon the spending that we should have been doing that looks like there's about 1.3 million That you know if our spending stays the same as it's been for the previous months of this year that we'll have potentially Based on my calculations, of course, there's a lot of other pieces that'll happen between now and then That looks like there's an additional 1.3 million I think we need to I've never heard of putting money aside for stuff I haven't either. So that's why that's why but while she's doing that and that That conversation and having it that's the time that we can ask about paying back the surplus piece Yeah, my understanding was it was you know for like a capital fund something that you would have to bond And we only had a building maintenance fund originally and then We got a legal opinion that we could also have a master replacement fund as a another fund But beyond those yes, so these were big capital costs But we can start like check on that I would be surprised if there were a bit I'll be surprised if they'll let us but i'm going to ask the question just in case because it would help Buffer a little bit of the uncertainty that happens with the special education piece if it were possible Don't know if it is So for now we'll table the approval of the facility reserve expenditures That's like it'd be a timing issue right now I think just given given the timing of stuff, you know, if we get stuff approved it can it's just we'd have to encumber it To be able to hopefully get the work done over the summer Again, I think one of the reasons one of the hopes with facilities was to try to get some of the work done over April because it does deal with you know security of the building Buildings given what's been in been in the news the past couple of months But if we did it the way that traditionally we have which is spend the money and we'll we will cover that We'll have to wait. We'll just have to wait. Yeah, we'll have to wait till the end of the year So the only difference is in terms of the expediency Yeah, but what i'm saying is so if we gave approval at the end of the year Okay, I mean now We don't have to do it today, but at our next meeting we could entertain a motion that says You are authorized to spend up to x amount of surplus On the building improvement plan that you have if those monies are needed On june 30th because you don't have other monies because that way That prevents the surplus of the of the amounts of this year. You don't have to vote on that You're not trying to then pay some surplus fund back what you can So that's probably the approach that I think we've consistently used over the past. Yeah I still want to find out the questions on the other just more for now Knowledge, but nope that sounds good All right, the next portion of our board management and governance time is um to hear from Are you guys against just having to come up and sit and Spread out papers and I want some tape Right back to the camera But you're based on the microphone All right So I um on behalf of Association have filed a Step And the the main issue is that there are Teachers who are currently Not under the cba who are being paid on an hourly basis rather than On a salary and not getting the benefits that come with the cba or the protections and rights that come with the cba And As I said in my letter the one teacher who This came to my attention with was betty young and Who is a halftime math interventionist at the high school? But I've since discovered And the association has learned that there are other positions. I don't You know exactly what they are we'd have to go through to to figure that out, but Um, we'd want to include that in this grievance I mean saying any teacher who is not being paid Um under the cba needs to needs to be that needs to be moved over that they cannot be paid hourly Does that make sense? Yes I understand but Um As a procedural issue I want to be real I want to have real clarity here um We can sit in judgment of or you know hear grievance But the scope of that grievance is dictated by what was filed before step one and two. We're step three I I would argue that um If when I filed the step one um Part we were not aware of other positions We've since come to be aware of other positions But it does say in the the grievance for step one Any other situations? I can pull up the exact I don't have any documents, so I don't agree to anything. Sure Sure, um, that's why I want to be really clear. We all know what we're talking about any other remedy Which shall be made which shall make the grievance whole was included in step one On the administration's I'll cease and desist from not adhering to the terms of the master agreement So that would be included. Um, and I would also point out that um Past practice sort of saying like if it wasn't specifically included in the wording for that grievance um past practice doesn't fall into it doesn't fall into that category because um We What I'm going to present is that that it's it's not following Vermont statute and you have to follow Vermont Statute By having teachers being paid hourly versus under the collective bargaining agreement. Yes, it's not following state statute Okay, so therefore to make that In compliance You need to then look at the staffing and make sure that everybody else is being Paid accordingly or under the correct Contract I do not know that no no we would have to sit down and and look at that and you know that these are Our teachers not other types of staff that right school district might employ Yes, because of all of it was other staff that a school district might have put in they should be either Under the teachers contract or under the support staff And what is this teacher? Betty um, what is she under she's under neither neither so she's not currently I'm saying that she should be I say the association is saying that she should be under the teachers Right, and is she currently under support staff? No, she's currently under nothing nothing And what's the what what do you define as a teacher? I define a teacher as someone who is um Required to have a teaching license in order to work for the district. Okay, and she has a teaching license Yes, and if you look and I I I did pull up the school spring Add and it says candidates must be licensed candidates must be licensed to teach in the state of ruman So that was one of the requirements for this position. Yes, it was a teaching license Do do you have copies? I had when I when I present I'll give you copies of everything I had the school spring. I'm happy. I didn't make copies very bad. Sorry, and this person was hired when This person was hired Well, the position was posted november 1st. I don't know of just this past 2017. Yeah So title 16 Chapter 57 I had to write all these down But I did pull up the actual wording Of this of the state's um law does clearly say that um teachers We have teacher means any persons licensed employable as a teacher by the ruman standards board for professional educators Who is not an administrator as heron defined? And I would say she is she's half time. She's a math interventionist. She's teaching students Therefore she should be under the teachers the professional staff cba that's basically My argument What does the cba say about cba? Defines 2.1 the agreement entered into the school board for the arm southwest supervisory So arm southwest school district. Sorry an arm southwest education association incorporating matters agreed to during negotiations Hell between parties pursuant to title 16 chapter 57 of ruman statutes annotated Would would it matter where are you? 2.1 Would a math interventionist be a teacher's aide? And not a teacher Just asking. I don't know. I don't think so because she does planning for students teachers a's do not plan for their students Um, and if she was a teacher's aide Then again, she should be under the support staff Of course that right, but no teachers, but she does plan for students She was required to have a license to Have this job Let me let me ask you this for her so under our cba, which I Thankfully have a copy of So article one definitions of rules of construction It's it It says throughout this agreement following definitions and rules of construction shall apply and 1.7 defines the term professional staff And it says shall mean persons under written contract with the school district for the regular school year Who are actually engaged in full-time or part-time positions as classroom teachers nurses physical education teachers guidance counselors co-op coordinators of the technical career center and librarians And shall not include substitute teachers temporary replacement teachers dental hygienists or teachers aide right The fact that an employee of the school district engages in the act of giving instruction to students incidental to usual or principal duty shall not be taken to bring that person within the meeting So it looks like This particular position is not specifically referred to Your argument is you're saying it's a classroom teacher I was I would say it is a classroom teacher just not having I mean at the high school you don't have Necessarily one set class it can be a small group of students it could be And and there are also positions at the elementary school with the exact same title of interventionist Who don't who are under the cba as professionals who are not having a one specific classroom Who do you consider teachers and they are considered teachers? Absolutely, and so it's the same position in your mind, but it's just in the high school of the elementary Or is there any difference between Well in this particular case she's only working with math But at the high school it is departmentalized as opposed to the elementary school where it's not departmentalized that way Just like you have a math Teacher at the high school Well, so you talked about one number was it um Previously in the cba 2.1 So that's the because that's referring back to the state law Well, that just says, you know, you agree to conduct negotiations according to the statute Right, but it does say that in the state law that there it does define what a teacher is And that was what you read on that's what I read on right any person's licensed Employable as a teacher by the vermont standards board for professional educators The cba that was a contract between a group of people not teachers It's actually more than but it's right. It is more than teachers But it is the contract for teachers plus guidance and others And and therefore the definition of teacher I would say falls back to the state law That that is kind of the big umbrella Yes, this is the agreement that we have negotiated for those people But to define what a teacher is. I think you go back to the state law I'm just trying to keep up to speed with what you're saying. I that's okay. I Realize we're gonna do this You know, I didn't know in what depth where we're going to be looking at. So that's okay. No So I was saying that um That yes that agreement is an agreement the association has For and negotiated on behalf of teachers plus others Guidance counselors, etc a professional staff But that the definition of teacher I We say goes back to the vermont statute that that is where it's what a teacher is being defined as But that supersedes it. Do they define teachers aid as something different? I did not look up that particular You know provision The problem is I would have statutes in front of us and this is going to require a legal analysis So are there any other facts that you want to give us in terms of like, um I think I think you kind of covered it. She's an interventionist This individual works in a department, but Is sent to different Classes with different students Here and there exactly. Okay, so she has no set particular classroom But she comes in and does the job not of a para educator But as an actual instructor teacher professional she's right. I mean We feel that the the difference between a support staff person and a professional staff person is the support staff person Does not do their own planning um, the lessons are planned for them the What they're doing with the students is planned for them Whereas the professional staff does their own Planning for instruction Looks at the students looks at the student needs and comes up with what that instruction means to me So isn't just doing what the teacher is telling them to do with the student. They're doing an independent planning Workholding planning in some cases I work with special educators and we sit down together and decide What we're going to do, but that special educator is still under the professional license And you mentioned before that there was more than more than this one I believe so I I have since we filed this um learned of one possibility and we need to What does that person do? An interventionist at the elementary school. Yes But I don't know all the details to that particular case. So I don't feel comfortable Going to the specifics. Um, but I'm also was addressing Lane's um in his response To us Saying that there were other positions and that it was past practice that it had been done for a number of years And um, and I would say if that is the case Well, I don't I don't want to interrupt you yet, but we would like Can we see what Lane has to say and and then you can have an opportunity to respond? So we get more of the sure picture And this actually helps because it's got a lot of the paperwork the folks want to take what passed around Kind of I'm going to read from some of my notes because we've discussed for a while Actually, no, it's actually a pleasure to work with them Make sure that that's clear, even though we're disagreement at times. Um, we can disagree out of play. Yeah So I give folks a chance When you get that page one, um is the the the grievance piece here Filed it it's step two And um, so it actually has the wording of a of two point water kind of and this was one of the discussions that we had Was it kind of states the whole title and chapter of the vermont statue? Do you know title 16 chapter 57 which is pages and pages long? So I was a little upset that they weren't a little more specific about Which piece that they were they were pointing out But the the second one is is I think is the real important one is the 2.2 The school board agrees to recognize the association as the representative of the teachers In the school district for the purpose of professional negotiations under the the labor relations chapter So the real meat of the grievance as far as I can tell Is that the association is arguing that the district violated The contract when it hired betty young under a special contract Because the cba recognized the association as the sole marketing agent for the teachers So the argument as far as I can tell is that because we hired her under a special contract You know, we did so outside of the agreement and since they're the only ones who can negotiate on behalf of teachers We're in violation. So the real question comes down to issue a teacher Okay, so we kind of spoke about this as you know, this disagreement over whether this individual is a teacher Um, so argument assumes that betty young's position is contained within one of the categories of positions governed by the cba So the law kind of spells out The broad category of what a teacher is but the cba that the union entered into with the school board Narrowly defines what a teacher is for our purposes here To do so on page two So I think that's where one of our our big disagreements is because the association is saying that even though it may not be specifically defined There in in the cba in that recognition clause That it is defined under vermont statute from our law and that was the part where I was Quoting and again that was the piece that they weren't clear on when they wrote the grievance again that chapter the title and chapter is So they were basically saying the violation whole thing But again the association the argument is is that the association entered into a contract with us um that that more Well defined what a teacher was So on page two if you take a look down at 1.7 and you read this already Professional staff are the ones that are governed by the collective bargaining agreement and they are defined as classroom teachers nurses physical education teachers guidance counselors Co-op directors of the technical center and librarians And if you flip over to page three The position that betty young applied to Was for a 0.5 math interventionists Neither the title nor the scope of the duties is articulated Or specified in the contract as being included with those that are considered professional staff Um, I'm going to point out a couple of other things here In the job description up towards the top responsibilities include Delivering explicit mathematics intervention to small groups of students In a math lab setting and working collaboratively with classroom teachers To strengthen their in-class mathematics instructions a little bit of coaching there Individual work closely with the school mathematics teachers in grades seven and nine And facilitate tier two intervention in these grades Okay, um, so again whether or not that falls under the definition of the teacher my argument is that it does not I also want to make a point here The contract language specifically said classroom teacher. It did not say teacher okay Engaged in floor part time positions as classroom teachers nurses and physical education teachers So one has to ask the question is why did they put that Label of classroom in front of teacher And I think it's answered by the fact that they also listed physical education teachers Um in the description of what falls under the cba The reason we did that is because the intent of this writing was that this is a person that owned their own classroom Physical education teachers perform in a variety of venues, right? They perform some of their classes in a field house They may be out of a field and so they didn't want them to be excluded because of that category that that that Adjective that they put on their classroom teachers The intent was to make sure that this was a teacher in charge of their own classroom Betty young in addition to everything else is not in charge of her own classroom. She works across classrooms from grade seven So just a couple I would disagree with that Um The contract that Betty young signed with the district page four Is consistent with the job description and identify serves a math interventionist Again, not a category identified in the cba as being professional staff Another piece that I want to point out here Um Is that where there is ambiguity in a contract? Where there is a gray area or where there is a point that is unspecified? It is common to examine what has been the long-standing past practice Okay When parties engage in a practice for an extended period of time without complaint those practices gain standing as being an actual agreement The district has established a past practice of hiring coaches and interventionists using special contracts Going back to at least the 2013 12 13 school year, which is a seven-year period During the discussion that stepped two of the grievance the union also stated and Laura did bring it up here that what made betty young a teacher And made her governed by the cba was that the job post Listed having a teaching license as a required commitment for the position And the argument is is that requiring a teaching teaching license in and of itself does not make one a teacher The purpose of including this requirement when david put that in there Was to ensure that the person hired had an adequate background in mathematics And at least the minimal knowledge of how to navigate the school environment We wanted someone who was going to be the best fit for the kids Also included in the packet are pages five and six Which are the school board obligations at step three and then the My rejection of the association's assertion in step two And then the last piece that i'll throw out and nor and i had spoken about this Is since it really seems that the whole issue is coming down to Is she a teacher or is she not? one of the things that can happen is Go to the state labor board and they can do a clarification on the position Whether it puts the category of teacher or not to solve the whole question right then and there Parts and pieces with her a while agreement I put on the association is the agreement So the teacher didn't file a reason she She is aware of this and she supports it But she is she is not the agreement the association in this case is the agreement because it's on behalf of any but it's a Not just a specific case more philosophical in a way Thing that needs to be worked out because because this is something that we become aware of that is happening regularly We need to to solve this and and make sure by regularly Well, as as lane says, um, if this is something that has indeed been going on since 2023-2012 that's pretty gravely The association was not aware of that therefore Can't file a grievance on something that we're not aware of When we when we became aware of it with this particular position We did file the grievance when we became you know as soon as we knew about it so But we want to make sure and why this is for the association not specific person as the grievance is that We want to make sure that all of the teachers protected by The rights and benefits that are in the cba and that they should be under that That agreement So the so the issue the issue in my mind is not What's the definition of teacher? That's not the issue at all the issue is who is covered by the cba and It has a specific definition. So in law general there can be a definition of teacher in the But that has nothing to do with what the union and this district May or may not want to agree to and so when an agreement is reached Um, it's determined who's in who's out because They're obviously are a number of things. So in my mind, it's about This is about what is the definition of classroom teacher. I do not believe that teacher Is The material term that's an issue here for in terms of construction of this contract The question is I mean unless there's some other category that is mentioned, but it sounds like classroom teacher is Your best argument in terms of how this Person or someone similarly situated is treated. You're arguing that they're a classroom teacher And lane is arguing that They're not That they're not you know fit under that what the contract says is a professional Which is From lane Job posting So that wasn't a part of your job So that's like where so if somebody's doing if somebody's doing probably a try with gas Do you have so many categories? What are the categories? There's a list but sometimes it doesn't fit honestly So it's just a category heading that's probably out of a drop-down menu. Yeah, there's a drop-down menu I haven't posted on This is a federally funded position. So we're and tell us about that. What does that mean to either review? The association feels that that doesn't matter the the funding to to pay the salary is Not in question here How you come up, you know the money to pay someone's salary can be all different ways and we have other Professional staff who are under the cba who part of their salaries paid for from title funds are their salary is paying for With state money and part of the salary. I mean there's all kinds of configurations for how people's Salaries are paid and how a physician is funded um That's not something that where You agree so So there are there are cases where there there are teachers that are split Um, so you have a teacher who may serve, you know 0.3 as an interventionist and a 0.7 Is under the regular contract because they're doing the work of the classroom teacher in a classroom So those folks would fall under under the cba in this case What the past practices has been for people who are only paid for under title funds And that's what I was talking about the 2012 2013 the past practice in this district as they come in under a special contract Um, and that contract is tailored to the specifics of how The investment in other words the grant application was written Um, which requires us to follow through in the disbursement of that funds that follows the application What we applied for what we told the federal government, um, how are we going to use that money? So and and we would say, you know the association would say that um That those having haven't that done in the past doesn't make it right Um, and that it needs to be corrected now that we know That that has happened It's so let me ask this. Um, so we have this contract with Miss you know and it's you know a certain amount an hour and So if you wanted if you want the board to make a decision that's that this person Another similarly situated or covered by the cba. What does that do with her current contract and her per hour? fee Well, I think that would be something that we would need to To negotiate for this particular situation and then with the understanding that in the future Um, I think that by the salary schedule and that's not and the salary schedule and then they're under the cba So part of the part of the discussion that would take a legal mind to take take a look at this Is this idea that if she is found to actually be a teacher the only Part of this district that can hire a teacher is the board She was not hired by the board. She was hired by the superintendent because when we hired her she was not considered a teacher It's possible under that technicality and that her position and her contract would dissolve Because you were the only ones that have the authority if she is actually a teacher to sign her to a contract as a teacher And that process has not occurred Which is a part of what needs to be addressed For the future. So I guess what I'm asking for what relief is being asked for by the union with regard to this Or this person Is asking that any future contracts For these positions would be under the cba with the full benefits and salary Set stated in the cba all interventionists or all math interventions all All teachers Be it called interventionists or not who have in the past Or who or positions because I think we have to separate the people from the position any position That is for a teacher Um classroom teacher if you want to use that that term because I think we can define classroom Um, I think that's a question of semantics, you know The classroom can be wherever that the instruction is happening That those positions are under the cba I think in terms of this year to be honest given the fact that it is now, you know, April And the school year only has a limited number of days left I think we're going to need to look at specific redress for in this particular case with with betty And I think that so I think the union would would definitely be open to discussing that maybe it is That sheet For the next year that it's Oh, here's the map I mean, basically what you're talking about is maybe we can come to a resolution or a negotiated settlement or something But what i'm asking you because this is what we need to know What are you asking for Right now about Ms. Young's contract I understand what you want us to do in the future is to treat these people and as if their teachers Yes cba, but what about specific for betty young? I think that she she should be rehired With a contract issued by the board And with the benefits I don't think in her particular case the salary is going to be an issue because I know that lane Looked at the salary schedule That is the professional salary schedule and figured out what that would come to for the number of hours that she was working And that's part of the executive limitation placed on me is that I have to So when I when I look at a person in terms of determining salary if and if there isn't a strong basis for doing it I take a look at years of experience. I take a look at education levels In this case it was using the salary scale to figure out what her salary should be So the other thing I just add that I think has to happen for for betty is that she needs to be offered health insurance And dental insurance and and the other benefits that come with the professional Contracts You said that she was good. You think she should be hired next year as a teacher on the cba But this only says this she's she's hired over just one calorie 2017 2018 That's what her contract is But if you're going to have that position I think for for this specific case What the association has asked for is a few things one is that she should be offered a contract under the cba If we for the extended right for and for the and for the remainder of this year That should be offered the benefits that are guaranteed under the cba For this the remainder of this year Um There's a good chance that she may not need them, but that it should be offered to her And that in the future any other positions that Go under the category as professional staff and be Under the cba Here's here's the concern She's not here You're asking the board to impair a contract a valid contract that we have with her now I know that you're saying that's not a valid contract You're not saying that because you can't tell us it's not a valid contract You can say that we shouldn't have entered in that contract because this person should be under your contract But she entered into this contract with us and it's she's been paid I mean she I assume she's still getting her pay and she's coming to work So the question that I have and it's going to have to get a legal counsel is How can we make a decision that impairs a current contract that we have with an employee of ours? Albeit, it's a contractual employee when she's not even here and we seem to be making a decision that impacts her But we don't even know what she has to say about the association Represents all members of the bargaining unit, but she is not But we are saying that she should be a member of the bargaining unit But the grievance that was filed and I think we have to state to that is that It deals with is she a teacher is she not? and if she is if she That determines whether or not she's a member of the cba and open to The union being the sole negotiator for her Um, that is the actual grievance that's before you I don't think we can add in other and above and beyond that at this point in time Well, no, I'm not trying to what I'm trying to say is this isn't the whole picture And we can't make this decision in a bubble without having her involved Oh, and there's no need to make a decision tonight. You've got it. I understand that but um So I think this is going to have to be a two-step process for the board of terms of the decision I think in the first instance, we're going to have to determine Whether in our judgment, we believe that this individual is or is not Somebody that's covered by the collective bargaining agreement That's sort of the threshold issue and that will determine whether we have a second step to Figure out or not, which would be let's say the decision is we think she is covered but or should have been covered by the cba then But how do you unravel a situation that she's been has been a Value contract and has been executed for this time Well, I would say that if the decision is that she is under the cba Then a contract should be offered to her under the cba and the other contract would become null and void Not that simple That's and that's the piece that I'm saying that without her involvement We can't just stop paying her under that other contract and say sorry You're now under this other contract that you didn't negotiate with us. That's what I'm saying. We need legal counsel about because Basically, you're asking us to enter into a contract with somebody that we have a contract with and without her Essence to say okay, I'm good with that and I'm not going to sue you By sticking me over here in a collective bargaining agreement because I like my contract and I want to continue with it For example, now, I don't know. Maybe she'd get paid a lot more money under the cba than what she's being paid But I don't know what the answer to that is she would be paid The same amount of salary she would it would be extra expenses for benefits But the problem is is as a title person And it stated specifically in what she signed when that money runs out. She's done So if taking on the additional expense of Benefits may make that run out more quickly and may make it already run out. It depends So that's the other the caution and I think why brook is bringing this up is it There's kind of two separate issues here. There's the union piece does she belong around? That's an issue all in itself But the other issue is Is what happens to benio? Which is kind of a little bit separate because there was already kind of an agreement in place She's had understandings and she's not necessarily the one that's bringing the complaint forward Yeah, I mean, I just don't feel like we can make decisions about her Here and aware of what her rights are and for her to have a position But going back to sort of the two-step process, I guess we need to Just figure out the first answer And then Second but I think we need legal counsel on this. This is really just a statutory interpretation or contractual interpretation issue That needs to be Determined and analyzed against the evidence that we have And so just so that we make sure We know everyone's relative positions We have the statutory definition in title 16 a teacher Obviously we have the cba itself We have Facts being that this individual and lane are you in agreement this individual? Comes into Into classrooms to deal with one particular Or you know one student at a time She does a variety of things. Um, she does some coaching with actual faculty members If students have been identified as the classroom teacher is needing additional assistance She will identify and tell her what specifically it is the student needs to work on And then focuses on that with them So there's there's a couple of parts and pieces that go with it But she falls under what we've always called a coach and interventionist And I I guess I'm curious. How do you separate the term interventionist at the high school from interventionist at the elementary school? I'm just trying to make sure that we have all the pieces of information Because elementary school and interventionist because elementary school interventionists are under the cba But it's the same cba so that exactly But so I I need to know who the individuals are because I am not aware of any I thought you said earlier that you you thought that there was Individuals at the elementary level who were also interventionists I think that they're both is happening at the elementary level. I I know of of interventionists D burgundy burgundy Melinda robinson lindsey meyer are all Um interventionists some of them are as well classroom Classroom teachers in in their own classroom As well as the position of interventionists some are pure interventionists. They are all have contracts Cba as professional staff so I'm asking why is their interventionist position defined as under the cba While these interventions is Including Betty's position not under the cba Are they standalone interventionists? Did you said they're teacher?  But that's something I have to investigate because I don't know the reality Again my my the 50 50 I can I kind of understand because if you're half teacher and half Interventionist then you would fall under the but their salary and benefits don't say half time under this Contract or agreement and half time under that But you gotta do that. I'm happy to take a full look and be quite honest on what I find but I gotta know who's who Sure, but I guess the reason I'm bringing that up is this this whole thing of of yes So defining what classroom teacher is um I think goes back to the vermont statue of saying what a classroom teacher is and and going back to the fact that You're required to have a license. You're working with students. You're planning for students Okay, so here's where I think we need to go with this I understand everybody's legal arguments and the statute and the wording and the cba and all that That's not all we need for me guys In order for the board to make a decision on this we need you to present facts to us and Doesn't sound like anybody's all that clear on exactly what the duties are Or versus somebody else who's called an interventionist in a different school What I what I would recommend and suggest is that we continue this hearing to Probably another time that we could find not at a regular board meeting so that we have The time and attention to be able to meet with you folks again, but have you Take the time to put your facts together So that you can give us the evidence that you want us to use to make our decision And that's not arguing about what a what a definition says That's fine, but you you're telling you're trying to Use those definitions to say well, they're just like this or they're just like that, but we're not sure what Lindsey does versus, you know, somebody else I guess I I would say That it's I don't think it matters um The specific duties because the specific duties um can vary I think it it boils down to the in the association's position is it's boiling down to the fact that um A vermont teaching license was required for the position and whenever a Well, that's not going to carry the teacher. That's not going to carry the day for you What I what I'm telling you is we don't have the evidence That we can appropriately apply and interpret what this means Based on the facts that we've been given so far because at least from my position I'm not clear I I understand the argument you're making and I think that's a very it sounds like a sound argument if melinda um You know is still a union member with the new position that she had and That position does x y z a b c those are the job duties and then The the lady that we're looking at here the other ones in the high school They also do a b c and x y z and it's just you know ones in elementary ones in high school That's what I would suggest in terms of providing us with information and evidence so that we can understand Not well mary. Oh gee. I don't know what she does, but I think there was somebody else and we've been doing this I think since 2013. I'm talking about I don't know how as a board we can make this decision because Right now, you know, I'm looking at classroom teacher That is what is the legal standard based on literally like a drive by glancing at the cba I don't care what teacher says in the statute unless you can show me a provision that says Your cba shall include every single person who is qualified as a teacher who gets a job at your school Teacher can have a definition. We didn't say teacher in this You guys didn't say teacher in this we said classroom teacher. We said driver ed tier, you know gym teacher, whatever Seth what the board needs and will require And the burden of proof is on the breathing Is to provide us with adequate evidence And it doesn't have to be any you know Think deals super professional I think maybe the two of you need to get together figure out who the universe of people is that you're comparing this position to Figure out who else is similarly situated or who else Is has been treated, you know traditionally As a staff as a cba covered person versus who traditionally has not So that we can compare The facts and try to apply those facts to the standard that we have You may be absolutely right or But with it, but we need more particulars about You know, I mean just because somebody we we said we'd like you to have a teaching license in my mind Doesn't mean that the person is covered by a cba And then one of the reasons is because we Just as we say that we say substitute teachers of temporary replacement teachers are not included and I assume what they need Teaching licensures or do they not I do not the replacement teacher doesn't or replacement teacher if it's for More than 30 days, right? So we we just as if we say that they're not included But they're teachers, right and they require a teacher license. It's just there's a duration time there And so I think what brooks trying to say is is that's not That may not be enough to say that this is a teacher because we exclude some teachers but not We're very succinctly excluding substitute teachers temporary replacement teachers or teachers aides You know and and and see getting to what the tasks that these people do That's what's important to me into making this decision not what somebody thought up as a job title for somebody I mean just because the job title is interventionist doesn't in my mind mean that they're not a teacher Okay, so I'm just trying to get to the real heart of the matter and if it turns out that If if you know the board or if you appealed beyond it if This position and its tasks Are not covered under the cba and maybe that's something that we need to address and you know If that's a more appropriate way and you know through collective bargaining or even an intermediate agreement we Come to your language in the cba. That's clear so that we don't have any buddy falling through the cracks Because you're pointing about classrooms. Well classrooms are changing an awful lot now and I guarantee you That that definition has been in there for at least the 16 years. I've been on the board, you know, I mean So is it even an appropriate definition at this stage? But what I the piece to kind of settle on too is you bring up the ambiguity ambiguity settles on past practice It's all just There's a left there are volume and I'm not saying any of this is definitive There are volumes and volumes of books on statutory interpretation with rules just like what you're saying because Nora has the exact same argument which is Well, the same position at the elementary school has forever been Under but we got to get the evidence to see if that's truly but that yeah, so that's what I'm saying Give us the evidence of that Are you okay with that Nora? I'm trying to understand So so what you know, what does this lady do? What's her position or other who are the other people that have this kind of contract that you also Want us to look at and what are their position? What are their job duties and So because I guess my question one of the concerns that's popping into my head is um So if because in the future going down the road and that's you know, it's kind of what we're looking for towards here is So you decide To create another position that requires a lice