This is session 2 of Quality Control and Improvement using Minitab. So, I am Professor Indrajit Mukherjee from Shailesh J. Mehta School of Management IIT Bombay. So, in the first session what we have done is that we have tried to understand what is quality and why it is so important, quality is why it is important and then we have tried to define manufacturing quality and service quality like that we have discussed about what is the Amman's Gap Model and how service quality is captured like that. Manufacturing quality is much more easier to understand like that there are 8 dimensions garbine dimensions we have discussed. So, today is we will try to see that how need of the customer is basically addressed like that ok. So, for this our agenda will be voice of the customer, how customer voices are captured. So, we will try to discuss that one and how their prioritized basically that also we will try to discuss in this sessions like that ok. And then we will also talk about critical to quality characteristics that relates voice of the customer and that is the agenda of this session 2 like that ok. So, our voice of the customer is basically need of the customer. So, whenever we think about a products we will define like what we have mentioned that there should be a need to buy a specific products like that and need of the customer needs can be in multiple that means it is not single need it can have multiple needs like that. Similarly, in a products we may ask for many different characteristics which is required in the products like that. So, those are the voice of the customer basically customer will not say specifications of them they will say just in abstract form that these are the characteristics we are looking for may be seeing the competitors products like that they will try to define. So, that means that people are doing surveys like that companies are organizing surveys to understand what is specifically need of the customer if there is a if need is not understand then what we will deliver basically. So, whether it is manufacturing whether it is service like that first you have to capture what the customer wants what what will be good what will be bad in a products like that. So, that is known as voice of the customer like that. So, let us take a simple example to understand that one so voice of the customer ok. So, a burger company wishes to add home deliveries for a specific products like that and for that they are doing the surveys like that and they want to understand what is the voice of the customer for this what are the voice of customer if I am doing a home delivery what what should be the necessary characteristics in a products that the customers will prepare like that. So, here I have just mentioned some different voices. So, a customer may want that I want a hot burger whenever it is delivered it should be hot like that ok. They can say I want it very quickly like that that is also a voice that they are not giving specification anything over here they are just mentioning that I want it very quick. So, that can be the voice too then they can say what is the choice of the toppings that we will try to prefer like that and finally, the cost should be reasonable like that. So, it should not be very high like that ok. So, these are the four voices there can be n number of voices when we are doing home deliveries like that. So, we can we can add more voices over here. So, but we are trying to see that how this voice needs to be addressed like that. So, we will take only one of these voice that is quickly we will we will try to understand that how this voice is addressed by any companies like that ok. So, I want it quickly I want it quickly. So, in this case what we can think of whenever I am thinking of a characteristics quickly over here which is the voice of the customer. So, this can have sub voices over here. So, whenever somebody thinks about quickly whenever I want it I should get it like that ok. Then speed of the delivery speed of the orders that can be another dimensions to this and as soon as possible that can be another dimensions to this. So, this is the voice of the customer that we are talking over here. So, this is the voice of the customer. So, this can be sub voices over here. So, sub voices. So, voice of the customer can be subdivided into voices like that. So, we can think of this as a number one voice sub voices this is a sub voice number two and this is a sub voice number three like that. So, here also I am not specifying anything. So, I am customer is mentioning that by quickly I mean these things. It should be very very fast ah when I place the order it should be as soon as possible you should deliver that one and whenever I want it I should get it basically. So, that is another dimensions maybe we can think about as ah when we are talking about voice of the customer which is quickly one of the dimensions of ah need ok. So, then ah whenever I want it I can also define a ah specification for being in the inside the organization we can define that 11 a m to 11 p m we can we can just say to address these voices what we can do is that we can open it from 11 a m to 11 p m like that ok whom deliveries can be available ah this time to this time like that ok. Whenever I am talking about speed in that case ah I can think of that I should answer the ring very fast like that and also call duration should be very less when I can close the order basically ok. So, call duration should be very less like that ok. And ah here what you see is that I have I have given specifications like that this is less than 60 seconds and if it is more than 60 seconds what will happen is that service failure will happen basically. So, in this case we have defined that this is the specification if if I fail that is a failure from our part like that and that is a defect basically service service defects basically we can we can think about a service failure if we are if we are not ah at if you if you are not able to deliver within 60 seconds that call is not closed like that. So, our order is not placed like that. So, that will be considered as failure over here. So, people should be trained or people who are giving the service or we were answering to the calls like that. So, that has to be finished within 60 seconds like that. So, I have given a spec specifications over here. So, I have given a specifications over here ok. So, as soon as possible we can also think about the minimum time from call to front door like that. Here also I have given a specification that out of door that means, from my ah premises the order should leave within 30 minutes like that and the delivery should be within 15 minutes like that. So, time time point or the localities that I am delivering should be within 15 minutes I should be able to these there like that. So, ah that is related to transportation let us say. So, but out of door delivery out of door out of door time is mentioned at 30 minutes over here. So, which can be related with the process specifications over here that means, order Q time ah should be less than 5 minutes, make time should be 5 minutes, this make time should be 5 minutes, ah packaging time 5 minutes and wait time should be equals to 0. These are the cycle times we can think of of make time, make time like that, package time like that. These are the cycle times of the ah sub processes basically over here. So, if you have to deliver within 30 minutes I have to I have to ah maintain these specifications or if there is any fault over here I cannot deliver within 30 minutes basically. I cannot deliver within 30 minutes over here. So, what we are seeing is that voice of the customer is translated into CTQ which is having specifications basically which is having specifications. So, ah this is ah specifications. So, ah this is ah relationship between voice of the customer and CTQ. So, whenever I have a CTQ ah I am able to measure that one and if there is any fault that is a defects that we will ah categorize that specifications into ok. So, ah so voice can have sub voices over here what we have seen is the voice of the customer at the customer level customers ah level we are getting this voice at product level we are defining the CTQs and CTQs can have sub CTQs over here also we can see. So, voices sub voices every sub voices can have a CTQ and it can have sub CTQs also like that. So, if we ah generic diagram if we want to draw like that you can see that over here ah what what I am showing over here is quickly is the dimension that we want to need that we want to address over here then we have divided into sub voices what you can see is that. So, we have categorized into sub voices for a specific voice and this sub voices are specified by some CTQs like that which is having specifications. So, whenever I have a specifications I I need to measure that one and whenever I measure I can only improve that one ok. So, conversion of a abstract form into a technical requirement is what we are doing over here. So, that is known as CTQ conversion. So, when you when you ah when you talk with a quality professional they will talk about we want to improve the CTQ. So, what is CTQ? CTQ is coming from the voice of the customer ok we are giving a specifications to that ok. So, ah this is defined by the engineers within the organization who are manufacturing the products basically. So, whenever I have the CTQ in that case I know I know what to improve that will ah that will relate to the voice of the customer or that will relate to the need of the customer and if there is any mistake in the CTQs and it will impact the voice of the customer ah any one of the voice of the customer that is important to the customer ok. So, so this is the relationship between that. So, now ah there can be n number of voices now how do we prioritize the voices like that how do we prioritize then ah Norya Kukkan Norya Kikano ah proposed this model which is known as Kano model very popular model to identify and prioritize the need of the customer basically. So, which is important which is not important. So, he has categorized this needs and for that he was given the Deming Award basically. So, highest individual quality award ok. So, ah what he has done basically for which he has ah got the award. So, he has tried to ah prioritize the need of the customers like that. So, capturing ah how do we capture the voice of the customer and prioritize those voice of the customer because if I can prioritize in that case I know which which is to be improved that will impact customer satisfaction basically ok. So, he has given a model which you can see in this diagram which is known as Kano diagram over here it has y axis and x axis over here. So, if we if we if your customer satisfaction increases this is on this direction if customer satisfaction decreases this is in the y direction negative direction. So, if the product feature is present this is in direction and the product feature is absent it is in this direction over here ok. And there are three lines what you can see one non-linear lines on this axis which is known as attractive ah needs over here that is defined attractive needs over here there is a must be category needs also given over here which is also non-linear type over here and one is linear type which is known as one dimensional needs over here that he mentioned over here. So, these are the three ah basic need category what Kano has tried to explain in this model over here in the diagram over here. So, in this case so, he has categorized into different categories. So, one of the category of voice of the customer is must be type of needs. So, this is one of the type of needs what customers have so, this is must be. So, if it is not there customers will be dissatisfied basically. So, this is order qualifier we can think of. So, from marketing perspective we can think of order qualifier basically. So, if it is if it is there it is ok, but if it is not there we are totally dissatisfied we will not buy the product basically. So, this is the must be category product and then there is one dimensional type of needs that means, more you provide more I am satisfied like that So, must be category what we can think of over here is safety of the car, car brakes engine starting smooth engine start like that if we are talking about car design like that. So, in this case these are the priorities of the customer. So, if it is not there if safety is not there I will not buy the car basically. So, this is the must be category. So, if it is not there I will be completely dissatisfied like that ok. So, there can be one dimension needs that means, more you provide more I am satisfied like that this is also known as performance needs like that. So, what we can think of well consumption if it is less we are more satisfied more it is less cost if it is less we are more satisfied ok ensuring quality of course. So, in this case. So, power consumption if it is less we are more satisfied like that. So, this is one dimensional need or linear needs that we can see more we provide more I am satisfied ok. The third category of needs or voice of the customer what we can think of is attractive needs ok. So, that means, customer is not expecting this one in the products, but you are providing. So, your designer is giving this one. So, customers are amazed when when they seize this type of features like that ok. So, here we have mentioned that rear view mirrors that can be controlled without opening the windows like that customer is not expected ok. So, you have provided. So, in that case in that in that segment of the car car segments like that and it is not provided by anybody else and you are providing it in the same cost like that. So, that is a attractive kind of category which non-linearly increases the customer satisfaction.  So, that is known as we can think of that as a attractive needs like that ok. So, then what we can think of is that another category of need is that I am indifferent to this that means, this is the indifferent category what we are mentioning over here. So, in this case what we can see is that if you provide I am I am not neither dissatisfied not satisfied because that is not needed as such ok. So, which is a indifferent need that also I need to understand that one. So, I should not put effort on indifferent kinds of needs like that and there can be also reversal types of needs that means, if you provide if the complexity of the mobile is too much in that case age group let us say above 60 will not be able to use that one. So, they they will get dissatisfied like that or irritated like that ok. So, that is a reversal kinds of needs that means, if you provide that one that is basically moving the customer satisfaction in the negative direction customers are dissatisfied more you provide that type of features more customers are dissatisfied. So, I need to understand what are those also. So, in this case so, that I do not include that in the design like that when I am when I am trying to develop a products which is more customer need oriented like that. So, I will I will try to avoid those things. So, they are there are categories over here. So, Kano says that all the needs are not same. So, they can be categorized as must be category one dimension category attractive category indifferent category reversal category over here. So, much must be has to be there one dimensional attractive feature will only improve the customer satisfaction. So, in this case one dimensional feature what do you see over here and this is attractive feature what do you see over here these are the two categories if you provide customers are more satisfied one is linear one is non-linear that will improve the customer satisfaction. So, this can be customer satisfaction on the plus direction we can think of and this can be on the minus direction what we can think of over here. So, this is Kano model what was given by Noriyaki Kano and we will take a simple example to understand how this prioritization is happening basically over here. So, in this case what we will do is that we will try to take an example. I have taken from an article which is given by Pan and co-authors like that in 2013. This is in Shanghai Disneyland to understand how they have prioritized the needs like that using Kano model how they have done that one. So, there are different voice of the customer that you can see over here various dimensions of the voice of the customer one is related to transportation one is related to facilities one is related to service another may be related to localization that means where it is. So, they are trying to open a Disneyland in Shanghai. So, in that case what are the dimensions of voice of the customer how which is which I can place in a must be category which should be in one dimensional category or we should be in in different category or so those categories which is attractive category like that. So, we want to stratify that one and based on that we will put emphasis in one we will emphasize on one some aspects we will we will discard some other aspects like that. So, within this voice of the customer what you can see is that voice of the customer this is voice of the customer I have provided also there are sub categories over here I have not taken all from pan over here. So, the some of the categories I have just mentioned some of the categories that they have identified like that. So, they have mentioned in their work like that. So, transportation related to transportation shuttle bus is one of the they are providing shuttle bus or not. So, this is a specific need. So, access to is a by subways this is another specific needs what customers has told mentioned in during the surveys like that. So, similarly these are the two dimensions over here. So, transportation we can think of this is within transportation there are two voices over here we can think of sub voices over here. So, one is providing shuttle over here another one is subways ok. Similarly in facilities it should be larger than Hong Kong there should be rest areas there should be golf courses like that there should be enough toilets like that these are the facilities that we are. So, these are the sub voices what we can think of these are the sub voices over here. So, this is one sub voice this is second one this is third and this is fourth over here. Similarly in service also stops are getting visitors like that service aspects the dimensions of voice of the customer can be there should be a play in the park a play area in the park in late evenings like that the they should provide online ticketing and they should provide prohibits from bringing any foods or drinks like that. So, that can be also we can check about that. So, localization another dimensions what we are mentioning over here. So, this is voice number 1 we can see these are the sub voices of a specific voice over here. So, this is voice 2 we can think of this may be voice 4 we can think of over here. So, this voice 4 we can have sub voices like that providing Chinese food whether it is important or not and which category it will fall in the needs that we want to identify over here and also special events whether it is important how much it is important like that in which category of needs is falls like that. So, these are the items or sub categories what we are interested into. So, this is one these are the aspects like that this is not exhaustive leads what I have shown over here, but just for any illustration I am using this specific journal articles which addresses of canon model which discuss about canon model and how it can be implemented like that. So, within this voice of the customer let us say voice 4 over here I am taking a specific voice which is providing Chinese food or not ok. So, how do you say that this is a must be category this is a one-dimensional category this is a attractive category which category it will fall this sub voices which category it will fall how cano differentiate this one how cano differentiate this one. So, for that we have to understand what cano has proposed basically. So, I am taking only one sub voices which is provide Chinese food or not. So, then what cano has done is that he has proposed like that functional question and dysfunctional questions over here ok. So, what is the functional questions that is mentioned over here how do you feel if Shanghai Disneyland provide Chinese food ok. There can be alternatives to this you can respond to that. So, I will go to a customer and ask that this is one of the dimensions I am analyzing and which category it will fall. So, for that I am making a question over here and you have to respond with these 5 options that I am giving you I like it I it must be that way I am neutral I can live with it and I dislike it like that. So, you have to provide your options like that how do you feel if Shanghai Disneyland provide Chinese food like that this is a functional question and or positive questions we can think of and these questions will be placed in the reverse order that means negative questions also that is dysfunctional questions what we can think of ok. So, let us let us assume that one of the candidate one of the candidate or customers has mentioned that I am neutral to this whether you provide food or Chinese food or not I am not much worried about that. So, I am neutral to this ok. So, then I ask a dysfunctional question over here how do you feel if Shanghai Disneyland did not provide Chinese food like that. So, if they they are not providing what do you feel how do you feel like that. So, in this case if they are not providing again the person says that I am neutral to this like that. So, this is one of the sub voices and the one of the customer has responded that I am neutral to this a different customer may may mention a different option over here. So, in this case and we are not restricting what option a customer will take ok. This is one of the customer as an example I am mentioning over here that he has mentioned that I am I am neutral to this for functional questions and for dysfunctional questions also I am neutral to this like that. Then what what you have to do is that you have to use a canal evaluation table like that. So, customer requirements functional and dysfunctional is provided over here in a scale of 1 to 5 over here this is dysfunctional question which is also in a scale of 1 to 5 over here. So, in this case what you can see is that in dysfunctional question what was the response this was the neutral response that the customer one specific customer has given. Also in the functional questions he has mentioned that it is a neutral kind of response. So, these are the neutral response. So, what you have to do is that go in the table and see where it falls like that I go down over here. So, then I see that they are intersecting in a in a in a box which is which is showing indifferent basically ok. So, these are the letter code what you can see is that a means attractive one, i means indifferent over here, r means reversal, q means questionable the response is questionable like that this is one dimensional or performance features or needs like that and must be category you can see over here. So, these are the categories. So, some are questionable see if you if you like and this is also the both functional and dysfunctional like that means the response is questionable basically we can avoid that questions we can avoid the response basically. So, in that case. So, about what we can see is that using canal model every response for a specific voice can be can be identified that this customer is giving. So, this matrix is given by canal. So, in that case we are using this model only to evaluate whether it falls in which category like that it falls in which category. So, making a functional question and dysfunctional questions for a specific sub voices will lead to identification for a specific customer whether it is a indifferent category whether it is falling in a reversal category questionable category must be attractive features or not. So, this can be categorized. So, immediately what we can do if you are doing a survey of many participants here the number of participants was taken as 63 and each of the voices each of the sub voices what you can see is that provide shuttle bus. So, there is a functional question and dysfunctional question that was done and priority of the customer whether it falls in attractive features or one dimensional features performance dimension or must be indifferent reversal questionable like that. So, these are the I can immediately stratify. So, 16 if you sum up this one so 22 plus 13 this plus this plus this and then it will be total 63 response that you will get ok. And then what you have to see is that for this category which is the highest response that is providing. So, most of the people are saying that this is falling in the using canal table that we have mentioned. So, we are seeing that 22 response is in attractive category over here. So, the highest response we have to take over here. So, in this case it will fall in attractive category. So, other response I will ignore. So, I will say that for this voice of the customer dimension it will fall in this category over here. Similarly, for the second dimensions which is subway which is the next voices a sub voices basically in transportation. Similarly, there can be other other sub voices in the transportation. So, everywhere we can we can just categorize over here. So, this is in attractive category over here. Now, let us come to the providing Chinese food or not. So, 63 response that we have received over here. So, that can be categorized that that was seen to be categorized into this different these different aspects over here. So, 19 have 19 people says it is attractive category 9 says one-dimensional 3 says must be 31 says it is we are indifferent to this ok. Leave ourselves only one over here. So, which is which is maximum over here. So, indifferent is maximum over here. So, this falls into indifferent category over here. So, immediately I will know this is indifferent category ok. But these numbers are hypothetical over here and if there is a tie what you have to do like that if there is a tie what will come in the final category at least over here. So, in this case Kano has also mentioned that which should be given priority over here. So, if there is a conflict between must be and performance category both are giving same ratings out of 63. So, it is 50 50 like that or something like that. So, any any any number which is having a tie like that in two categories like that you have to give priority to must be category as compared to performance dimension. So, if this is let us say somebody has responded 20 over here performance category also 20. So, we should be which category it will fall it should be in must be category like that ok because must be should be given priority as compared to performance I am going a one level down out of this. So, in this case I will not go to one level up I will go to one level down over here. So, must be category should be prioritized like that. So, functional questions and dysfunctional questions positive questions or negative questions in the sample survey will provide me enough information to and using Kano tables like that I can I can I can just figure out in which category it falls whether it is positive category or if there is negative category like that. Whenever I have done this whenever I have done this then we can also calculate a satisfaction coefficient and dissatisfaction coefficient over here. So, what was mentioned in this article is that. So, satisfaction coefficient can be calculated and that considers attractive and one dimensional category for a for a sub voice of the or items over here we we can understand attractive category and one dimension category then divide it by a plus o plus m plus i like that. So, in this case this will give me a satisfaction index or positive index over here ok. So, how many people have mentioned out of for that voice of the customer how many are mentioned attractive features. So, if you go back to this providing Chinese food attractive feature is 19 over here and then we have to sum up with one dimensional over here. So, that is 9 over here.  So, this is the total matrix we have to sum up this one. So, in this case.  So, that will give me a index which is about 0.45 like that. So, there is the specific satisfaction coefficient for this dimension or for this specific sub voices basically ok. So, it will go into sub voices like that. So, satisfaction coefficient similarly we can calculate a dissatisfaction coefficient that is given by o plus m divided by total summation of a plus o plus. So, this is coming out to be minus 0.19 like that. So, for every sub voices we can have a satisfaction coefficient dissatisfaction coefficient like that. So, then what we can do is that we can we can just plot it into a two dimensional matrix like that. So, there will be a dissatisfaction coefficient. So, for a specific dimensions sub dimensions we will have a dissatisfaction. This is negative one we can think of this positive one we can think of on these dimensions like that. So, this is the quadrant and in that case if it is indifferent. So, your measurement should fall within. So, the measurements that we have taken over here. So, in this case maybe minus 0.19 and plus 4 5 over here. So, it is falling somewhere. So, this is this is the minus 0.19 and 0.45. So, in this case 0.19 somewhere over here and this is 0.45 like that. So, somewhere over here dimension will fall over here. So, that is falling in the indifferent category over here. So, in this case this scale can be formed and this is the 50 percent we can think of 0.5 as the demarcation line over here. So, and also here also we have a 0.5 markation and that is the I am just segmenting this into four quadrants like that we can think of and then we can place it in one specific sub-boys in what category it will fall. All sub-boys can be placed in this diagram over here after the survey is completed after the questionnaire was dysfunctional and we have categorized like that then we can place this one. So, in this case these are the boys of the customer let us say 4 3 like this. So, this is falling in the attractive category this is in the borderline like that this is also in the one-dimensional. So, we should place more emphasis in improving this one-dimensional attractive feature that improves customer satisfaction basically that will improve customer satisfaction or positive we will have positive impact. So, we will place more emphasis on this type of category how to improve those things and and it should not fail basically. So, these are the features which improves the customer satisfaction we should not be worried about much indifferent category like that, but must be category it should also be addressed it should be there should not be any missing. So, we should provide this must be category. So, we are more interested in must be one-dimensional attractive feature, but we have also identified some reverse reverse needs like that and we will try to avoid those needs in the in the design basically. So, that will create this satisfaction we do not want that. So, that is the way how we are differentiating using Canon models. So, I am able to stratify this one. So, I am able to stratify this one ok. So, that is all what we wanted to discuss in this session. So, what we have done is that I will go back to the initial discussion like that. So, what we have told is that we are talking about boys of the customer over here boys of the customer means need of the customer over here. So, for that we are doing surveys we have identified different voices of the customers. So, one of the voices may be quickly how quickly we can deliver. So, there that can be divided into sub voices and these sub voices can have can be divided into we can we can just give see some specifications to this and that will be called as CTQs and CTQs can have sub CTQs what we can see over here. So, if any CTQ fails that means dissatisfaction will improve for that voice basically. So, we are converting into abstract form into specifications basically. So, if why we are converting this one because then we can measure that one and then we can define defects and then we can have a chance of improvement like that. So, we want to reduce the defects that was the overall objective I told in quality. So, what is the goal of quality? So, improve yields reduced defects. So, do we try the first time? So, those are the agendas of quality like that. So, I am just converting in the voice of the customer which is in abstract form into CTQs and then try to maintain those CTQs and try to improve the CTQs and that will improve the quality basically and that will satisfy the customer. Then what we have discussed is that how to stratify the voice which is important which is not important like that we are using Canon models for that. So, there is a positive it is divided into quadrants. So, in this case what we can see is that there are features which are Canon is saying that it can be stratified into different categories. So, one is must be category one dimensional attractive indifferent reversal category. So, then how do I how do I each of the voice how do I categorize like that? So, Canon mentioned that we have to do a survey for that we have to place any of the sub voices into two categories like that. So, it can be functional or dysfunctional like that positive questions negative questions. So, we have seen one questions for a sub voices which is providing Chinese food. So, then that response is collected. So, maybe n number of response are collected and each of the response can be using Canon evaluation table we can categorize in which category it falls. So, one of the category is coming out to be indifferent over here for a specific response. So, then 63 responses what we have seen in this article was categorized into different categories based on the response what they have got and each of the sub categories is now given a specific category. So, that is let us say attractive features must be features indifferent features like this. So, whenever I have this category, but you have to remember that whenever there is a conflict I have to follow the lower level of that. So, if there is conflict between performance and must be or there is a not conflict we can we can talk about there is a tie over here. So, in that case I have to go one level down like that. So, that is a process we will follow. So, then there is a satisfaction coefficient calculation dissatisfaction coefficient that is placed into quadrants based on the 63 response like that. So, for a specific sub voices then we can see which is attractive which is one dimensional like that using this coefficient diagram customer satisfaction coefficient diagram like that and we have a negative axis positive axis over here then which category it falls and based on which category it falls we what we can do is that we can immediately emphasize on attractive category one dimensional and must be category like that we are not concerned much about indifferent category like that. So, we will stop the session over here. So, what we will do is that we will continue from here in the next session ok. So, we will discuss more about now translating the voice of the customer into CTQ what is a quality function deployment we will talk about quality function deployment over here. Thank you for listening. So, we will meet in session 3 we will meet in session 3. Thank you.


Alright, good afternoon everybody. For those of you who don't know me, I'm Dr. Decker, and I'm a political science professor. And this is a talk that's being sponsored by... Let's see if I can get this right. The Department of Political Science, the School of Education and Behavioral Sciences, and the MGA Chapter of Pi Sigma Alpha, which is the Political Science Honorary. A little background about this guy. I've known Don for over three decades, which means, you know, we were zygots when we knew each other. Obviously. And he has a bachelor's degree in public relations from the University of Florida, and a master's degree in political communications from Georgia State. And I didn't really know that he was going to become somebody that was well known, so he's kind of my breath of greatness, I guess. And I don't want to tell too much about the story, but I don't want to steal his thunder, so I'd like to introduce Mr. Don Diaz Johnston and take it away, Don. Thank you, Dr. Diaz. As I said, I'm Don Diaz Johnston, and today we're going to talk on marriage equality, specifically the Florida campaign. But first, I'm going to go a little bit at the history that gets us here. Then we're going to move into Florida, and as I promised, Dr. Diaz, we're going to get some real behind-the-scenes stuff on and how the political process actually worked. Now, as I said, we go all the way back. The Stonewall riots, for those of you that don't know, this is what's known as the beginning of the gay rights movement. Some people say the modern gay rights movement didn't exist long. June 28, 1969, Greenwich Village, New York City, the Stonewall Union Stonewall Bar is still actually there. It's on the National Historic Register. It used to be illegal in the city and state of New York for people of the sex to dance together. So every once in a while, the police would go down to a not-really-gay bar and they would arrest, publish people's names in the newspaper, carry on. Well, not that night.  It riots for five days. This is the modern gay rights movement. This is the first time anywhere that gays actually fought back. And yes, it does go on for riots for five days. Now, this one. I told you it was June 28, 1969. Here we are, and we're actually starting, this picture is taking in May 1970. As a result of Stonewall, these two guys, who live in Minneapolis, say, you know, honey, let's go get married. But they go down to the clerk's office expecting to be turned down, but they try and get a marriage license in Hennepin County. They're turned down. It actually becomes what will be Supreme Court President Baker versus Nelson. One of the things I didn't even know before searching this, they also, a few months later, went to neighboring Blue Lake County. They did give them a license. They did get married. They're still married today. They're still in the court of gay marriage of any same-sex couple in the world. This is what actually starts. This is the first iteration of the gay rights movement. It's called the Gay Liberation Front. This actually goes around the world.   It was a horrible idea they thought of that. Why? Because they got their name from the Wippens Liberation Movement.  So strongly favored the men. Some women couldn't own property. They couldn't independently get the mortgage. They couldn't be put on... There were a lot of legal barriers to keep women sort of tied to men. This is why the idea was so horrid to same-sex couples because marriage within the left was a horrible thing we needed to abolish almost. It was a radical idea that wasn't there. Bonus points if any of you professors out there can recognize the picture of what the New York Times called the hat that roared. There you go. Now, this is actually a little bit of a prologue, I want to tell you. It's a movie called The Day It Snowed Miami. My friend George and I briefly appeared and we didn't know we were sitting in the audience for the premiere. That's awesome. It's the only snow in Miami one time in recorded history. That's very funny when I go to say it. When I come to 1-8. This woman, Ruth Schach, she actually in... Let's see if I get the right date here. January 18th, 1977. She is a member of the Miami-Dade County Commission.  It's a non-discrimination ordinance only in what was then known as Dade County. It's now Miami-Dade County. And so if you were in metropolitan Miami, you could not be fired for being gay. This lady did not like that. And what actually happens is the next day it actually snowed.  How does Miami... give gay rights in this house? No, Nita actually lived in Miami. She was the spokesperson. She's the spokesperson for Florida Orange Juice. She's a popular singer. She was a runner-up. I think 3rd or 4th were Miss America. She was Miss Oklahoma. And a popular singer, particularly from a Christian band. The church and the pastor that Sunday announced what had happened. And she was so incensed and so upset somebody needs to do something. And she decided and she actually gets something started called The Save Our Children campaign. And that was considered a very nasty campaign mostly because it was linking gays with pedophilia and making it so. Now if you're wondering if you don't know why she got a pie on her face there's a very, very famous clip of her doing a news conference.  She almost came out a victim of that. But one of the things that actually comes out of this famous line and I remember this when it comes to time for us to go is don't have an Anita moment. She is truly a victim that's horrible that Bob did that. But she quips right after, well at least it was a fruit pie. Came across as horribly nasty and did that that really was some bigotry behind this. So that's what happens with them and as I said it does snow. Eventually what does Anita do? She actually gets the ordinance repealed. The Florida legislature actually goes in and passes two bills immediately thereafter as a result of the Save Our Children campaign. One is they ban Florida is the only state that ban gay couples from adopting children. The other one was Florida passed a ban on gay marriage which other than those two guys in Minneapolis was not a thing. But actually Florida is the second one. Maryland had done it right before that and it was directly as a result of those two guys in Minneapolis. This is years later. So what happens in the interim? AIDS. Immediately following this period the gay rights community switches and all of the attention then moves to AIDS which I'm sure everyone understands but the key things I want you to take away from that decade of the 80s opposition to marriage within the gay community dissolves to almost nothing. Monogamy becomes much more popular and much more important. The gay community was split on that but the impact of promiscuity these are all debates going on not going to go into the beginning it also does something incredibly important. Two big things come out of it. It creates a nationwide activist network for lesbian and gay people. It also creates the fundraising specifically the other thing is it begins to create sympathy for gay people. Whereas as Anita said we were pretty much seen generally accepted same as pedophile. Yeah. And are these three jokers you might recognize one of the names for this. Okay. I remember Suley up in the top he's a good friend of mine he actually comes along in the 90s and he runs a campaign to undo what Anita did. Now actually he never tells anything it's only in the last couple of years that George has actually come out and said he explains he was actually fired as a result of the law that Anita by taking it back he was allowed to be fired he didn't tell anyone there but that's actually what happens is he loses his job and he gets involved in this he was just a guy with a job in corporate America and he actually becomes now he is one of the most influential lobbyist and organizers in the nation President Biden shortlisted him he was one of the three people that were going to be running his Hispanic organizing for the last presidential campaign that's where he got another good joker here you see this is Amanda Diaz that's actually my brother in law and that's my husband George Diaz so what happens is now Mercutely actually gets Anita Bryant's term takes five years to get the data from the commission to reinstate the original and they call it human rights ordinance now one of these guys come in and how does this fit they get it done the very next thing they do is they start a petition drive because they knew popular will is going to be against this we're going to play the pedophile card again it works it really does let's play it except these two guys why do I say that these guys so Mercutely knew George and George actually helped with save day with safeguarding American values that's save and Mercutely is the head of save and during those five years they actually organized fundraise did all kinds of things and became a political force within Miami so only the greater Miami area that's where they operate this guy did something he said he wants to run for mayor of Miami up until that point he had just been a real estate attorney and he was well known for one other thing you don't even know Elian Gonzalez's lead attorney so that was how now these guys actually laugh about that okay that's a reasonable like be famous and stuff but you're never going to get mayor it's a joke but because of the fact that Mercutely and George are here save day because of this guy knowing this guy endorses this guy the first endorsement he gets in a jungle primary for the Miami mayor because our last mayor had gone out spectacularly and embarrassingly getting national headlines when they start actually pelting city hall with bananas to say it's banana republic not too far off I do love my adopted home but not too far off so many comes in and they just see him as an absurd it's like eight people running he actually makes the runoff and everybody took him seriously because he actually did endorsement and save was nothing to sniff at so that actually happens why do I mention all this when we go back to the petition to repeal again and the other repeals it once repeal again it's an old expression of love coined by the late great Molly Ivins in politics you gotta dance with the one what brung you and that means that whoever helped get you elected especially the ones who went in first with money or influence those are the ones you've got to pay back man actually went he defeats a very popular former mayor who comes back out of retirement to run again and it's sort of a lucky thing right after he gets in they announce the petition drive this guy calls and says pay back time when I say with this is they were looking at a situation in which they were expecting a tsunami and then it was going to be a need all over again what particularly happens in the general now Miami is dramatically Hispanic significantly Hispanic and so you've got a whole cultural thing many cuts a Spanish language radio talking about his brother George who was gay and likens it which is key to the Catholic things it's about family you don't abandon family you stand behind family guys through all this when I mention all this it's going to lay the groundwork recently he tells me they did before and after that radio ad moves ten points that is a huge and a matter of weeks in public opinion moves at ten points ultimately the petition drive fails and the law still stands on the book today as a result of that but what that does it sets the stage for where we're going with marriage equality now we're actually to the marriage equality part these are the different players I'll actually break down who they are but these are the key people in the lawsuit backed up in 2004 Florida like everybody else passes a constitutional amendment to their state constitution ban and gain marriage so this guy Evan Wolfson he wrote Harvard law thesis on same sex marriage it was literally a 50 state strategy here's how you do it here's how it's done his Harvard professors had brilliant but that's a joke you're never going to see it in your lifetime get out of here so he does it's not well received at all but he believed in it he actually worked for lambda legal which still is a gay rights law organization be like the ACLU for same sex couples he works on the bearer Mikey case which is one of the first Hawaiian cases he works on the Baker Vermont civil unions case and he is generally considered the architect of the same sex marriage movement now this lady Kate Kendall she is the was the executive director at the time at the national center for lesbian rights this is a massive organization that actually works for gays, lesbians, trans the entire LGBTQ community she is absolutely a riot she looks really nice here I found these photos but whenever I met her she was wearing a big plaid suit she loved to add bowling shoes all these weird stuff very funky lady, very funny very entertaining this is our lead counsel in the case he went to Cornell law school has even recruited and screened candidates to work in the Obama White House he is also transgender Shannon actually was born a girl and yeah that is his real facial hair I never would have known I actually had some class but yes and he actually one of the comments he makes at one point was he was shocked that he could get married as a transgender man but his lesbian sister could not and he said how perverse is the law he became recognized as a man he could actually get married and should have been in a longer relationship these two Nadine Smith and Stratton Paul they still are the co-directors of Equality Florida they lead the campaign and by lead the campaign Equality Florida is out front NCLR brings in national money national legal expertise as part of the strategy these guys run what we call the ground game and we'll get more specifically into the ground game that's where I come in that's where someone is there but the idea is in public relations or persuasion campaign that's actually what they do and they're connected throughout the state now Elizabeth Schwartz she'll come in as well she is a nationally recognized family law attorney specifically on LGBT issues as she published legal papers in the Cambridge University Press American Bar Association journals she's been on the cutting edge and handled some cases that you see nationally in which you'll have custody cases one of them was a Vermont couple and she was living there these two women get a civil union in Vermont, go back home to Florida there is no gay marriage recognition yet they split apart, they have a kid it's not very aprimonious she actually litigates who gets custody because one of them actually takes the child out of the country to get away from and divorce can get ugly and so she actually worked on these issues and she's actually telling people please do not go to another state it sounds wonderful to get it because Florida had no similar law so they could not dissolve it if you move from other they had to establish residency back in Vermont to actually do this it was a mess and so she's actually an expert she also knew and this is going to be very important for me the judiciary the lay of the land people that are there every story has to have a villain right? Pam Bondi used to be the attorney general Florida I love to always say that she was divorced twice and she engaged in a third commitment ceremony in the Caribbean with no legal weight we used to say really you won't let us you know what's interesting in this story I would have to mention eventually when we get toward the initial seat she was the last Republican attorney general to continue to fight this after it was so incredibly clear that it was lost that was everyone expected at the time that that was because she had future aspirations so far none of those have planned to help although she has played some minor roles in fundraising with the Trump administration and other things but for the most part she stayed out of public life she may come back this guy actually I met him he was a hook and I genuinely he shows up for hearing in person so he's the Liberty University was the law school dean and this was at the time this goes on we're talking about the 2014 he actually argued in our case against same sex marriage and before the court he cites the fall of Rome and that homosexuality is akin to drug abuse it's a long the judge is just okay she almost got him off but she wants to give him an opportunity to speak and that I do actually admire about our American court system is we don't actually judge whether or not we think your speech is all that you're gonna get hurt and he's one of the ones Pam did not even show up to argue they just submitted papers okay here we are probably gonna have a hard time recognizing me because I don't have that hair there I am right next to George saying you guys don't so these aren't actually the plaintiffs this is the laughs of the players and I'm gonna show you guys Carla Vanessa Melanie Vanessa David Juan Carlos George me Jeff Todd Summer and Pam now when we were actually there was a for months there was a search going on to find what they considered the ideal couples all the couples that you see here except George and I have children generally speaking slightly more attractive these two Summer and Pam are grandmothers and they actually care for a special needs grandson in that so these were part of the ones but you can also see there's a certain degree of central casting kind of going on with the group oops sorry you've got an irrational couple you've got an older nice white lady couple another two mixed Hispanic white two Hispanic girls and extremely white couple of girls now as others have when we're talking about photogenic George and I actually nicknamed Vanessa and Melanie Pauction Sporty Spice but they actually do kind of look like they might have been a spice for us or whatever ultimately it can't be here this is Kathy Pareto she will be the lead plaintiff actually there's a whole thing to decide to do that so anyway they're all screening George and I are not a part of that screening process that comes later where do we come in ok so my first brush with history so George and I are dating goes on for a year I actually propose to him get engaged and we have no idea that there's been this big push to get couples for several months and they need thousands of couples he's talking to me one Sunday night this is like within a week of getting engaged he says stop to get the right of gay marriage and at first I'm thinking he says well it's not like we don't know enough attorneys I mean I actually work for boutique pellet firms but like yeah we know nothing but attorneys and so he starts hatching this idea he's talking about it we should do this but then he says you know what I'm getting ahead of myself we should call this guy and so he calls George Mersouli and he says hey George we're thinking about it but Don says you know maybe somebody else is doing this and we don't have to and George says I don't know you'd think somebody would but I'm not really like plugged in he says I don't know maybe we'll call Evan or we'll call Liz they're bound to know now I've spoken to Evan he's a reporter today so I actually knew Evan but this guy actually has these two people on speed dial in his phone and so he actually calls Liz first and once again it's Sunday night everybody's like and he says hey Liz do you know anything and she goes are you kidding I've been working on this thing for months we launched there's going to be a there's going to be an announcement at a press conference in a week and George says well let me conference George in and get the one and so all of a sudden Liz and Mersouli and George are actually on speaker as well and Liz and she goes oh my god wait what you guys want to be in on this too and Liz starts freaking out because as I said George was actually extremely well known as the dead brother of the mayor who actually goes on and is very successful with this first thing out of Liz's mouth is these two are a get are you ready we're going to get this now oh by the way this is Manny again why were we a get see who he's standing next to here don't you anybody recognize this that's Michael Bloomberg so Manny's on his foundation they pal around do a lot of things one of the first things they were thinking is that's a lot of money we could get a lot of fundraising so it was an entire counter with it so anyway Liz says okay are you guys ready she actually calls Shannon over in San Francisco and says we got to open this up see whether or not we can get them in there but we actually have to be vetted so there's a legal process that you go through to make sure that they don't really regret that they picked us and we actually jump in and join it you know that's how we join I'll circle back a little bit but they have an idea what these seven states have there are okay I told you NCLR which was run by Kate and the head legal counsel Shannon Minter they are based in San Francisco and Kate says okay we're doing a nationwide campaign we're going to push it up because during this period there's back and forth with California has marriage then there's a petition to overturn it Hawaii's going on over here we've got something over there the civil unions Massachusetts it all just rolls into all kinds of patchwork crazy Kate says I want you to come up with a plan talking with Evan Wilson whether or not we can how we're going to push this all 50 states I don't know Tennessee, Wyoming, North Dakota and South Dakota Kate joked about this on the campaign when we were doing it when Shannon got done saying that I immediately thought to myself we need a drug workplace policy because you've got to be out of your mind if you pick these seven states but that's actually what they did they were very careful in deciding which states they wanted and so there's a different strategy for each state these are the ones that are actually going to be the most favorable to us Florida's legal strategy specifically first thing they do if you're going to do something like this you need to line up your allies and either get them in or get them out before anything's announced and they're going to be filing it in Miami State Court that is what they determined in Florida not federal court state court they're going to file it there they were adamant and they explained this to us the plaintiff's couples because we're going to be the front line of this an appeal it was not going to be terribly like we could pull a really bad judge you know like we could pull a really bad judge in federal court there's also the possibility that the attorney general would pull it and bring it into the northern district of Florida which they were expecting it was not going to be a favorable court based on the judges that were actually sitting at the time and they were terrified that it would go and be appealed to the 11th circuit court in Atlanta which for those who are not that familiar the 9th circuit in San Francisco is considered the most liberal of the 11th circuit it's generally considered the most conservative and so if there was going to be a bad precedent that could split it they wouldn't get out of there so that's where they found them now what were we supposed to do our role as these six couples we were supposed to put a human face to a legal situation we were warned we went through a media training you do not discuss your legal rights in any of these things if they ask you you turn, you pivot and you talk about why you want to get married talk about your love and commitment share your personal experiences share your stories big key this is fellow part of the camp loved women and that was over and over drilled into us to talk about it as love wins rather than a political thing why are we actually doing media why are we supposed to go out and do this if you're all familiar Roe vs. Wade if you support abortion rights you're thrilled with it but one of the things that the public has learned both sides of that to pay learned yeah without a media campaign going along to a court campaign courts number one aren't even more especially post Roe vs. Wade less likely to go out on a limb for a knot without a lot of public support to begin with the second thing is you also create an endless as doctor doctor systems theory will teach you so our job like I said many cuts that radio at was to move the needle here we are at the press conference once again people like better for sure here I don't know and Shannon is our hero he actually comes in from San Francisco for this media blitz we had no idea what we were in for so here's George and I again these are the couples we talked about George and I knew that we were brought in his brother was the mayor of Miami as I said that would get a certain degree of attention my grandfather and father were actually in north Florida to have the old families well known well respected we were the only child with a couple but our job actually and that's why Liz has jumped in we think they might garner a little more attention we had no idea what we were getting into these pictures this is actually January 21st 2014 by the way I proposed to George on New Year's Day 20 days later here we are throughout this whole day what have we done not such a good idea yeah media blitz it doesn't even begin to get it so we're on ABC, CBS NBC, CNN, YouTube it viral was already a thing I think but yeah it kind of goes viral you can see the different couples let's keep going we were on the front page of every paper in the state of Florida that day when I said the media actually zeroed in the things that happened personally it was frankly disturbing for George in my vote when all the couples actually get there so it's a room like this imagine George everybody just basically turns and is talking to George and the guy scanning my new hero does a spread we draw all of the attention away and I say that it's not really exciting or thrilling but that was our job which we didn't actually realize is to create a sense of occasion excitement, dramatic these are professional photos done by professional photographers some of the other ones this one appears in the Sun's Sentinel that's actually their photographer these three are done by Portland Ortiz one of the other things I want to say do you see these four couples the other two couples actually almost dropped out completely from the media one summer actually gets some serious blowback even though she had cleared it with work that some of their customers where she worked were very upset that she was involved and she said I hate to do this but they're going to they're trying to ruin me international media one of the things that's not actually realized about Florida Couples our PR firm actually did international media the number one English speaking television station in Miami is number four in ratings the top three actually are in Spanish so we had to do Spanish language if we were going to get that it would be throughout Florida but it actually carries throughout the entire United States as well as Central and South America I actually this is not one I didn't find a photo of here George has a round table now you think you get there he was never formally trained in Spanish he just grew up speaking Spanish around that house he was actually telling me before he appears in this round table I have the vocabulary of a third grader that is an eight year old he's basically going on this debate show there's another one that I actually do with him which I learned Spanish in North Florida I did take three years and so I did okay but it was a little bit of a spanglish one I actually did a live television program we did that I made the horrible mistake of asking how many people watch the show as I'm headed out like four minutes before you sit on the couch and live television 30 million I want to put in perspective for you because it's all through Spain Central, South America, all of the United States do you know how many people watch Fox News in an entire 24 hour period between two and a half and three million I didn't even know no Spanish but it was a little bit of nerve-wracking and what I say with that one is this is actually a power on you one Carlos actually does he's a doctor he had a really hard time making it he was frankly on call in some of the situations that come in so actually these guys go and they do talk and one Carlos says in the middle of the thing because he was a native speaker and he is a medical doctor but the point was the Florida campaign actually has national and international impact even though the media was to focus on Florida so it actually moves the needle oh sorry moves the needle broadly we actually move during the period of this campaign the needle moves 15 points that's a result of this and that's one of the lasting things about this is it also begins some complexities but we're actually having impact in Central and South America actually I should say my husband and of course we had to take a picture in front of the CNN Latino truth is CNN Latino had actually already closed but it was still in the studio nobody bothered to take it down but it was in univision remember how I told you do not file in federal court and hey ACLU and save day do you want to join because of the media blitz and all of the attention we're getting three weeks after we do they run out and go damn it that's a lot of attention so they round up the first day people they can grab a hold of that they're literally actually board members and people that volunteer and they go you guys want to sue and they literally do sue and they file in the northern district of Florida if you ever really wonder what really goes on jealousy pettiness because as I said you're invited ask to come no thanks y'all do it it's got other stuff going on they didn't really actually expect that kind of attention and the kind of fundraising that was coming as a result of it so they file this we immediately have an emergency conference call with all of the plaintiffs couple you guys need to be brief because we wouldn't get briefings periodically as things went on the official line is this is wonderful we're so thrilled that they would come and join us and the more the merrier meanwhile behind the scenes you're gonna screw it up years of planning so we actually do the campaign and this is it we're actually this one makes me laugh so George is 47 here we're actually in a gay pride parade first time we ever went to a gay pride parade in this entire life of course I also love to tease him so he grabbed himself from the rainbow flag which he thought was cool and I said you're like some sort of gay superhero what we did as you can see these are the stars now all the couples did this stuff this is not just some of the specific statewide fundraising we actually appeared at events in this statewide fundraising the six stars that you see the ones that George and I attended so we zig-zagged all over the state most everybody else stayed in south Florida some did come actually to the central floor the only ones we can ask were Tampa and Orlando because we was tired in that year we did more than 50 media appearances it does move public opinion 15% and as I said this is a funny thing I did not expect quality Florida couples dominate nationwide media coverage all this other stuff Shannon Mentor tells us and frankly I think it was sporty and posh just my personal although Kathy Pareto we had gorgeous lesbians in this Shannon actually says they keep getting media calls keep getting media calls remember they're running in seven different states they keep asking for the Florida couples and Shannon's just like you know we got these other people and they said they're so telegenic and they actually speak so well and like I said Vanessa and Melanie got way more than we did especially with the nationals one reporter actually said did you hire professional actors to attend to meet these couples and I said if you want I can scroll back they actually believed that and Shannon's response was have you ever been in south Florida no those people actually look like that it's why I spend as little time as possible there so here we are actually at the hearing the case itself was actually very simple it was a summary judgment I won't speed it up I'm a tad longer than I expected but it's a summary judgment and there is a single hearing this takes place on May 1st remember we kick it off with filing and then May 1st actually we have to be denied a license we go on the 20th we get denied a license then we file on the 21st and May 1st the judge schedules the summary judgment hearing that's where Matt Staber goes into all the rambling and ranting about the fall of Rome and all of these horrible things that are happening curiously though the hearing is actually held in a famous courtroom where they once held the trial of Al Capone so it's actually known as the Al Capone courtroom it's actually very gorgeous you'll see some pictures of it in there but here we are on the front steps I don't know where quality Florida keeps bringing out so there were people coming out to have protest signs doing all these things as we go along we do the hearing while we're waiting for the hearing before the ruling because the ruling takes a few months I cannot impress upon you it seems so obvious now people saw but hearing on the inside we're getting constant feedback we're doing more press things they're actually creating reasons for us to go out and every time a court case because throughout 2014 different court cases are coming out in different jurisdictions that are beginning to fall we don't realize it but it's a tsunami it's a legal tsunami for gay rights and same-sex marriage as you will what's actually happening on the inside after 20 to 30 years of absolute Stonewall opposition support creating statewide constitutional demands a quality Florida and NCLR start getting calls from all the major opposition groups hey how about civil unions y'all wanted that a while back we could let's do something like that reason why I mention that is on the inside we didn't realize and they were actually telling us talking about a bad poker face they were losing inside their groups they saw that they were not going to win and they were not going to win they denied a little support my boss actually I work for a law firm very respected guy knows personally current and former Florida Supreme Court justices 11 circuit court appeal justices he actually starts calling some of them because the quality Florida says we would love to get some big name editorials Gerald Cogan former Chief Justice of the Florida Supreme Court calls back yeah sorry Roy tell Don he's gonna win he doesn't need me we'd love to help but there's no point there's literally no point and that was the one where they literally said and we're going what's going on everybody believed but inside they didn't at one point and this was a joke among the couples when the state passes something someone comes out we get a phone call hey Don George can you meet can you meet us we need you to get a comment South Carolina South Carolina how the hell did South Carolina get a Florida we're like laughing and going something is going on here so we actually realize that it's also during this period in which three Republican attorney generals dropped they think they're literally laying down their swords and saying we're not fighting anymore and we're uh Pampani keeps going the win the win comes in two parts this is actually the outcome courtroom you can't see vaulted ceilings it's about almost three stories in there so Shannon and Kate celebrate the win here is us it's actually uh later this is not these photos are actually taken on the January 5th 2015 on July 25th Judge Sarah's at Miami Dade circuit court judge Sarah Sable strikes on Florida's ban on marriage for same-sex couples and orders Miami Dade County to allow same-sex couples to marry she stays her decision pending appeal she lifts that stay on January 5th 2015 and that was because there was the other case I mentioned the feds the feds were going to make it uh the judge that unless uh I forget exactly what was it complicated unless this happens it's going to go into effect January 6th Sarah says not so fast I went first let's let these guys go so um this is actually the day of January 5th in which um the state is lifted and they allow Kathy and Carla to get married in these dresses here Jeff and Todd get married in those suits they're they're actually Kathy and Carla the first couple in Florida uh Todd they were the second couple George and I actually were going to be the first couple when we were back in July and they had us organize it we actually got involved because of course we're so late calls Ruth Shack and sees if she will do our wedding which was actually supposed to be a whole uh me once again to get attention for it George and I were so exhausted by that time we got I don't care we get married in March it's good we're tired this photo is actually about and this is our original you see here that's our actual first application to marry this is the inside job and this is where we're at there told you Sarah rules July 25th that this is happening we've covered this tsunami oh it's happening everybody knows this is coming as you can see here on our application they have to scratch out the bride part and put fence there was a spirited debate between George and I as we're filling out this I can assure you I think it was going to be the bride let's just say that you are the nicer one that's how that ended and what's actually cute is and I have to show you this one so I'm actually on the application scratch out its spouse it is both spouses to get there now once you show you this okay you all caught on right where is it this is our marriage certificate I had to order a copy to get some paperwork on what I mean to show the marriage certificate in the last year this was issued in 2020 did anybody catch that Governor DeSantis has misgendered me deliberately un-official that's actually the inside joke legally I have been wrong lastly I will finish on this note just ever so briefly sadly my husband died tragically early last year and this is actually what happened and I said this is the impact we did not realize the story goes internationally and what you're looking at here this is a lot of not all of a lot of the major coverage it goes on for quite a long time and NBC actually refers to one of the Hispanic Americans that died last year that had a significant contribution to America and the impact of that I got well-wishers on Facebook from around the world as far as way as Central Europe and some from Africa I have no idea how amazing I am about it my husband always felt a little less than his brother was a bit better known and a bit more valence to get the one I like sadly although it's in debt because they're looking at a circulation among this and others that kind of five to six hundred would be the circulation of exposure obviously no they should not all read it but that's the exposure I said to George I have Dr. Decker and so on almost one in ten people on the planet that's one of the things that I realized and when I say that why is it the response is we never thought we'd see this in our lifetime George and I we catch ourselves crying when these things are we cannot believe this is happening much less that we were involved that's what actually happens for the people that reach out to me as a result of this tragic death is how much the symbol they had no idea who we were losing the symbol of somebody like that because it had a profound effect on their lives as well I've gone quite a bit over but I do hope you've enjoyed it and if you have any questions do you have any questions for Donald? yes oh yeah thank you so much that was incredibly informative gave us how much I learned through the ads this is what we did to be going out the other states that were selected I don't know if you explained it and I missed it I don't know oh gosh you know what it could be the drugs I don't know actually what I recall and I have to go back and look at the specifics I know how it was a federal court case and they literally went down to what judges we might get and some of that's in the news today with some of the issues today but I do not recall what it was about the Alabama thing really did me off oh yeah why part of the strategy was the media things that we were doing because the act of putting a case in there that was part of the strategy the act of putting a case forces you in the newspaper which forces something that some people don't want to see in front of their case and this is how the needle moved I mentioned during the time we were a little bit under water 100% approval we get to 60% approval after this and keep in mind there were other couples we were not the only ones but we were the ones that definitely they said at the time we were suddenly to tell the general public us nationally because we were doing MSNBC actual CNN and all of that it moved the needle for them but I think that answers for midterm I mean Dr. Beckers that's a big issue in the semester we had to brief a Supreme Court case that dealt with LGBTQ politics I happen to pick one that comes very close on the heels here is the next years of Bergfeld vs. Hodges what the question that I have because you talk about tsunami that's sweeping through the nation at this point it was weird because it wasn't just Bergfeld vs. Hodges it was actually 16 different petitioners originally and on appeal I thought it was weird that they all got thrown together in the 6th circuit there on a court of appeals all together into one little case listening to what you're saying I wonder in your opinion maybe that's something out of desperation at that point because they see the right in law and they're trying to get Oh a lot of that was going on and I cannot speak definitively but yes that was something that was going on 2014 is such a tumultuous year in terms of the media and as I said that was the point they get there we didn't realize and I said inside it the gay rights organizations the natural they are not getting what's happening but that is literally what's happening and everybody's operating autonomously and they're not and even the polls are coming out and I think they're changing so fast in that year that literally none of the players can track what's going on but as you said before as I did with the the other couples and the other thing yeah nobody's also in charge nobody's in charge they're literally something you wouldn't believe you think it was an organized media campaign I should say that there was also some real shoestring I would get out there and one time we were having debt and we actually go out in the park a lot and do an interview at one point I said it was 50 times it goes on but no there was not this is not a top down thing and you couldn't really stop other groups yeah very often I guess kind of do you think that it would have been more expedient to have a more nationally organized general strategy or do you feel like the grassroots kind of strategy is most effective this was a nationally orchestrated it was incredibly well thought through but you have to face the reality that you don't have control in a democracy so anybody can do what they want I mean one of the other ones which we had to do a more than mirror two bartenders down in Key West went down to the courthouse and applied and started another case in the middle of our case this is going on all over the country so you have no control over that what they did have control over was we were supposed to create the illusion that this was all a part of the plan so we do fold it in and like I said we're doing international media which I thought I don't get it they're looking ahead first of all thank you I was just going to point out that you focus a lot on public opinion and how your role was to get that shifted and your role was and I think it's important to note that operating principles of the Supreme Court if not mandated explicitly certainly they operate under the guise of public opinion is supposed to weigh in on the decisions so that was important to sort of leverage absolutely and there's a little wrinkle which I did not make clear so there was a concern that the U.S. Supreme Court I actually got called from friends of mine could they do it to us could they judge Sarah Sable's ruling as an entire state court system of Florida so the feds the U.S. Supreme Court could not overturn it if they wanted to it would have no effect Florida would have remained standing I think that carries a little bit she's talking about from the ground she's talking about from the ground up you mentioned the AIDS movement there and we've learned about that this semester how decentralized it was how would you I mean yes you had a concerted media campaign that was national but how would you like would you say 2014 was as decentralized or how would you compare it to 2014 was probably the closest thing to a centralized from the gay rights perspective I can speak to authoritatively even maybe the only centralized or I shouldn't say that human rights campaign would hate me for that saying that because they do actually do things but the vast majority of it is ground up come there you have no idea the good news is the state of Florida put the bill most of y'all know that they didn't so any state federal government violates your rights I need equal opportunity commission whatever it is if you sue the government the United States and you win for violation of your rights the government has to pay your attorney's fees for them actually a lot of attorneys will take them as a contingency Kate Kendall was no dummy they got millions out of the states they sued to pay for all of the staff and stuff it wasn't free, it was a paid back so it was actually free for them to do it and that's part of like land illegals entire structure I don't remember going on about that for a year they make movies solely for assuming ACLU huge asset, they fund race as well because they do more than just lawsuits but that's actually how you can afford to pay for so many attorneys on staff for either the right or the left


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