Yeah, so you can see like, it's kind of divided up, you know, I, I account for the, the four main areas in which, which we generate revenue. So one of it is just advertising revenue, right? So there's some sponsorship, right? This would be through the newsletter sponsorship or some, some web advertising on there, but mostly newsletter sponsorship or podcast or YouTube video sponsorship within here. And then with affiliate revenue, we still generate some affiliate revenue from Amazon, Bluehost, you know, ThriveThemes. And then we do affiliate promotions with, with a lot of partners on the email list. That's actually one of the main ways that I generate revenue with the business now. And then of course, there's product revenue selling. I'll pause there. So one thing, I want to focus on one thing. I always tell people if they haven't gotten into online businesses that don't have any marketing traps, start off an affiliate marketing.  Yeah. And then my buddy was showing me how much money he's making and I'm like, you know, but based on my past hustling, I get it. So I got to drive people here and I get a clip. I get a percentage. I don't have to worry about the product. I don't have to worry at the back and I don't have to worry about nothing. My job is to just drive traffic there. That's it. And it's like a great, great way for people like no risk. You can go and Clickbank right now or any of these other networks, a million of them, pick a product, go on Facebook. Go on Twitter, make a Facebook group, make whatever LinkedIn group. And you can start putting your referral link and just driving traffic that way than understanding how these funnels work while having no risk to you. Exactly. Yeah, it's a great way. I mean, and one of the things that I kind of advise people do is you can always test something out. Let's say you build an audience around something you've got because traffic is key. If you've got traffic, that's the thing that you need. Like it doesn't product doesn't matter. Marketing doesn't matter. Those things are replaceable and and and you can you can get those things. But traffic is is the primary thing, right? If you've got especially got organic traffic around it, a subject matter. So you got your traffic and then instead of creating your own product, what you can do is you can just go out there and find an affiliate product that that fits that. And if it sells really well, then you can go and create your own product and just replace it. Replace it right in the funnel where where you just put your product at the end instead of the affiliate. Peter Teal's number one rule of business is distribution. It's not the product. Exactly. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Product, you know, it's kind of funny. One of the things that, you know, I teach all my coaching clients and a lot of people don't like it. When I say it, it sounds really weird when I say this, but their marketing and the product are completely separate things and the product doesn't matter. So literally you could you could sell people a box of of dog crap and it doesn't matter. It doesn't affect your sales.   Refund rate and referral rate. That's it. So you see, I'm saying everything up to that point is all marketing, right? And so, so, you know, I try to separate those two things out of my head because if you if you don't, then you start to think that the fallacy that most most people from my background, right? Software developers, they think if they develop really good software, a really good product, but they will have a good business and it's completely false.  The product doesn't matter at all.  It's like, you have to have traffic and you have to have the marketing yet. Have the ability to sell it. And then hopefully you deliver a good product, which means that people won't refund it and that people will refer it. But ultimately, the product has no influence on the actual sales of the company, which is, and we see this historically, right, from everything from VCRs with the beta format and what ended up happening with VCRs and a lot of the other superior products that ended up getting destroyed in the marketplace because they had inferior advertising. So, all right, so let's see. So I'll move on here. So next one is product revenue. So this is the digital products, right? This is actually selling courses, online courses. And that's the main, was my main revenue source for Simple Programmer. That's kind of that off. Are you selling the courses on? Are you self-hosting? Are you using something like Thinkific? Like how are you delivering this? So right now with Simple Programmer, I'm using WooCommerce. So I'm self-hosting it. Now, I would not recommend going that, right? Originally, the reason why I did that is because I thought I wanted to customize it and I really wanted to have one-click upsells and to be able to customize that whole process. But what I'm finding is it's not worth the hassle. And then even with WooCommerce, what ends up happening is a lot of the plug-ins you use end up having yearly subscriptions anyway. So you're not really getting it for free. So it's probably better to use something like if I were starting up today, I would probably just use something like Teachable or Podia or Kajabi. I'm using Kajabi for Bulldog My Set. Yeah, there's Kajabi, Podia, Teachable, Thinkific, even Clickfront.  Yeah, yeah, there's no need for you to control that. Just pay whatever the small fee is. In fact, I think what's the one Thrive cart you can pay once, like $600 and you can have access to it for life. So, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. So, but yeah, so we got product revenue here. And then part of that is a book. So I sell a book, Complete Software Developer Career Guide. And I sell like the print, the Kindle, the audio version of that. And then there should be a, and then there's royalties. I'm not sure where maybe there wasn't any royalties paid. Let me switch it to like last year is probably what I should have done anyway. But, but yeah, so I mean, you can kind of see how it breaks down. This is probably a better reflection of how things, you know, advertising affiliate revenue actually makes up a bulk of the, or almost a bulk, but I guess product revenue just barely beats it out. But, and then there's royalties, right? So, so that's kind of the four areas that I think of when I think of online business. I think of advertising, affiliate, your own products, and then royalties or licensing. And so for the, one second when you got here, the advertising. Let's go back to, cuz we, let's touch base on the traffic. So, for people listening, so I'm gonna kind of summarize this.  Think of you as a salesperson, you get commission. Then we had a product, you create your own product and you sell it. That's 100% commission that you get. Obviously comes with more problems, you need customer support. You have to deal with refunds. Everything's on you, you're running a full-fledged business. Then you have sponsorship, which is like if you have a good list, or if you have traffic, whether it's YouTube traffic, social media traffic, email list. This is how like 99% of even like Bloomberg's and all these other types of media sites make. It's all ad revenue. Think about eyeballs on the site. So going to simple programmer, and most people have this question is like, how do you, how do we grow traffic? Is there strategies that you would recommend for somebody today just starting to pretend you and I are starting out? Like all right, John and Amir are going to create like, I don't know fucking.  Right. What would you suggest in today's environment? Because I'll tell you what, the stuff that I did back in the data affiliate marketing, it doesn't work today. We used to do summits where we used to interview experts and all the experts had products and courses and the experts had lists. We would team up with people. We would pay money for pay traffic. We would have somebody that interviews everybody and everybody would share the online summit to their list. But it's not really like, it's not like, it doesn't happen from day. It's prerecorded, but you, you create the perception, right? But we used to be able to gather email lists from anywhere between like 50,000 to 150,000 emails within like 45 days. Yeah. That goes crazy. Yeah, that's yeah. Doesn't really happen that today. So, you know, what worked yesterday doesn't work today. And so let's say you and I are starting today, we know the business model. We're going to start off with some affiliate stuff to figure out what products work, what products don't work so we can create our own products. What are some traffic strategies would you suggest for today? So, okay, so I'll start off by saying this. This is, I think this is the key thing to think about. I always tell people this is five years. The minimum that you want to dedicate to being successful of anything of value is five years. So, so even though I'm going to kind of tell you the way that I would say it's like to start quickly, there is no such thing as quickly.  It's not just business, right? I mean, you want to build a good physique. You want to get good with women.  So, so with that, with that, that groundwork laid, I would say that what you really want to do is very, be very specific. So, the thing that I always coach people on now today is try to be, figure out something, pick a niche, so thinly sliced that you could be number one best in the world, right? That's really the key because there's so much noise out there, right? It's not like it was, right? The thing is, and even with online courses, right, that you've got like Udemy's and stuff, like it's driving the prices down. Like you can find anything out there. And so, you have to really be the expert where people are going to. In order to, in order to build any kind of traffic, because how many people now can do a Gary V style releasing massive amounts of content, right? My old strategy used to be be prolific as hell. That was like, and that one, because no one was producing the volume of content that I was producing at that time. And if you were prolific as hell, people would figure out who you were and you would get known. But now you have to be really, really targeted like a sniper and you have to figure out exactly who's your audience and how can you be so, so specific that when they come to your site or whatever you're advising them on or, you know, whoever your audience is, that you're the number one best in the world at that thinly sliced hop. And you can always expand out from there, you know, a good example of this is Amazon, right? The everything store in that book, it talks about the Amazon story. And one thing that Bezos did is that he started off just selling books. That's it. And then everyone's like, you need to sell more than books. He's like, no, no, no. First we're going to just sell books. And become like number one there. And then he expanded out to like CDs and music and video games. And then, you know, concentric circles out. So it's the same thing is pick one really, really specific niche and target that. And then it doesn't matter if you do YouTube or podcasts or blog posts or Instagram or I suppose even TikTok, you know, depending on what your what fits your niche, better, where is your audience at? But pick one of those platforms and you just focus on that platform. So you're basically specializing in a specific audience segment, like niching down there and then on a specific platform. And then you're going to be really prolific on that platform and create really good quality content. And that's it's still going to take time. I'm still going to tell you that it's going to take you, you know, maybe two years to get to the traction point. That's what I usually say. And the traction point is when you actually start to feel like you're doing something up to that time. Like you're going to be producing content and you're going to be like, no one's watching my YouTube videos. Right. And I know this because I have so many coaching clients, right? I coach a bunch of coaching clients where they want exactly what you're asking. And we I start YouTube videos with our YouTube channels with them. And I watch them, you know, and I'm like, keep going, keep going. And it's like six months down the road. They've got a thousand subscribers on the road. They've got two thousand subscribers, you know, but a year and a half down the road. All of a sudden they got 20,000 subscribers and then two years on the road, they've got 30 and that's and that's where they start to get that. Then they're like, OK, it's actually working, but it takes that long in order to to to get to that point. So but the faster or the more niche down you are and the more specific you can be, the faster that you'll gain that growth. Right.


Welcome to Toffy TV, it is the Everton News Daily. Go check out co-ops, dirty fries and own brand deals, the perfect food and refreshments for watching football this summer. Click the link in the description to find your local co-op. Everton are interested in Lucas Digny, the latest left back to be linked with the Blues. It's come from the mouth of Paul Joyce, therefore there's a good chance that we are actually interested in him. Being linked with Yeti Mina, who was also at Barcelona of course, all week, Digny, news came out last night. He's one of a number of left backs that Marcel Brands has been looking at. Obviously Celtics came to and he looked as though that was going to happen. Celtic apparently wanting a large chunk of the money up front as well as add-ons, if not all the money up front so that Everton have been not keen to do so shall we say and have moved on to other targets as well, looking at all options I suppose. Digny was very, very talented player at Barcelona. Could we get him? I don't know, but the fact that Everton have gone for him shows that there probably is some interest there from him. It's clearly an area where Marcel Brands and Marco Silva have identified. We've known it as fans that Leighton Brands needs some competition and we need a successor to him. So it's again, it's the watch this space. But another left back has been linked with us today and it's Jordan Lukaku who plays for Latio. Yes, it's Romelu's brother. The Belgian left back, there's one of a number of names thrown around even today, more even after the Digny news. But I wonder if Romelu have a good word for his brother Jordan about Everton. Who knows? Who knows? The links continue to Vidae, the Croatian centre back. I'm not even going to attempt to say his first name. Apparently Everton and Liverpool fighting it out for his signature. So we're going to get Vidae and Minae. Obviously a lot of names being thrown into the mix. We don't have any kind of thread to them really, but you've got to sell papers and everything else. Tyus Browning apparently wants to leave Everton on loan this season. He went out to Sunderland last season and it was a bit hit and miss. Obviously some injuries could tell that he's looking to get out the door again and get some more games under his belt. Everton are playing against Aiding tomorrow in Austria, so it'll be the first opportunity to see Marco Silva, a Marco Silva side shall we say. Playing against the Austrian sixth division team, so the opposition isn't exactly first rate, but it's a chance to see some players, it's a chance to watch Everton in a football match when Sam Alladeis isn't the manager, so that's always a good thing. And it'll be an opportunity to see people like Adam Ola Luckman and Sandro Ramirez. Karen Dowle, who we've not seen for a while, so it should be interesting. That game kicks off four o'clock here in the UK, I think five o'clock over in Austria. And finally, David Unterhead's under-23 side lost 3-1 today to Coventry City's first team in La Manga. David Unterhead said he was pleased with the result because it was a real test against their first team. So that'll do the lad to the power of good playing against Coventry's first team today. Obviously it was their first game after a week's training over in La Manga and that is it. If you haven't joined us on Patreon, do it because it's good. And if you haven't subscribed, please do so. It only takes a second and click the bell notification button that is down below. And you're notified of every video that we do. Thanks for watching. See you later on Toffy TV.


Happy weekend. It's the weekend. Hey, this week has been if I look tired I can't look tired. I can't let you guys think I'm tired, right? It's been a long week I haven't left before 7 7 38 o'clock all week. It's because we're getting more lead orders than we've ever got I mean every week over the last month. It's gotten bigger bigger Crazy bigger and it's because we are putting a lot of emphasis on quality And you know what those naysayers and though those negative Nancy think is they're sitting there like you know what? He's really just saying that because he's doing a video and trying people to buy leads Laying all jokes aside whether you believe it or not We are getting more orders and our quality is better than it's ever been Which is why and I think what's cool is is not only is our quality better than anything you will ever pick up I can say that and I finally really like truly believe it You guys may not thought I believed in the past. We are there. It is past there It's the best but what's neat is a lot of these big internet vendors you've got to call them to place an order You've got to be a part you've got it You got to wait till Monday or during the week or you can actually call their call center and talk to them to place an order Secure agent meter calm we get more orders just through our site Without talking to us then we ever get people calling in now We get a lot of calling orders and if you have questions where we're happy to talk you can email us We'll respond over the weekend. Whatever, you know, we're the agents company because we are agents We get it a lot of agents. They just want to buy like hey, I need leads for next week I mean Saturdays and Sundays if you're not thinking about how your week is going to go If you're not focused on what your week is going to be like You're gonna wake up Thursday Friday, you're gonna look at your watch be like dang. I didn't do anything this week and it's because I Just had a buddy say earlier. He was referencing a movie said anything or nothing or I don't know said something funny But so it just hit my mind when I said that but if you're not thinking about your week over the weekend Right now is the time to focus on hey, I need 15 quality appointments. Let me go buy 30 leads from security mentor Let me go buy 20 leads from security mentor. Let me go buy a hundred leads from security mentor Our website is there so that you can put emphasis and think about your success even over the weekend For those that don't know we've made a lot of adjustments and improvements to our website If you don't know go to our website secure agent mentor calm and check it out You can put orders in over the weekend. We are here to help We're always here to help even on the weekend. You need to be thinking about your success You need to be thinking about our leads. Can you just be thinking about making some freaking money? We're here for you in 2018 and beyond because we want this to be I promise this will be our best year But even more important than us. We want this to be your best year ever


So information in regards to new content coming to your power world is kind of short I mean we received a trailer a couple days back showcasing a new power and a raid that's coming in the next content update But information in regards to what else is coming. It's kind of short. There's not much else that we know of I mean the player base is at an all-time low. I mean, yeah Obviously they expect that it's a game once you get to the end of it There's not much else to do besides breeding and getting those perfect powers So many many players are sitting back playing other games taking a break waiting on new content to come But all the undead discord yesterday now they dropped what is Absolutely an incredible change that they plan on adding with this next content update whenever that will be Today we're getting to it all. How's it going guys? My name is DP Jane if you enjoyed this video leaving a like really helps out And if you like what you see and want to see more power world be sure to subscribe Okay, so we already saw that new trailer of the new power Ballonaut Which you'll see on the screen now just running in the background as well as a new what says new raid We don't know exactly what's going on here. We just literally see like a giant power soul being plugged into like this terminal and Then this power spawning with those meters falling behind her But what does this mean? There's no context here, so we don't know we've seen all the meters behind are we spawning to a bus battle here Does this giant power soul artifact spawn this secret power which we fight? Is this the raid? I mean it doesn't quite make sense to me a raid is a raid Plugging it in this artifact this power soul and spawning this this power to fight isn't exactly a raid in my opinion It's just a bus So I don't actually think we've seen footage of what a raid will be as of right now We're just seeing a new power and I'm pretty sure over the next week or so We're gonna see more teasers and a few other things but over on the disco day drop something which is absolutely incredible In regards to a new feature that will be coming so over on the disco They actually stated this let's go to it a little sneak peek of another feature in the upcoming date I think it means upcoming update when you're not taking on Balanor enjoy some relaxing base Management and what we see here guys is a new feature the monitoring stand You can manage the tasks performed by base pals. So yes, how many times? How many times have you basically required a pal to do a certain thing? You put them in your base and it goes and does its own thing It doesn't do the thing you want it to do well guys and this new feature completely Eliminates that as you're seeing on the screen now It's got 18 powers at his base. You can see all the work suit abilities along the top Column there you can uncheck these so therefore if you have a certain power. Let's say you have Grisbolt Grisbolt obviously has that generating electricity work suit ability, but you can actually uncheck this you can uncheck his lumbering You can uncheck his transporting and you can obviously untrack that one We're going to talk about at the end there looks like a crucible symbol while obviously means fighting or base protection if you get Rated or whatever, but you can uncheck all of these guys. So he prioritizes handy work So you'll only do handy work. You can do this with the new because I absolutely need this on my newbis I've bred the perfect anubis is I've got like 20 of them across my three bases But a lot of the time they run straight to that mining site and just start mine I've got so much stone. I don't know what to do with it I can uncheck this so they want me doing that mining no more and I only concentrate on certain things I want them to do this is a massive massive change. It's a great great change It's something a lot of us have called for for quite a while It's good to see that they're actually taking note of what we want. It's absolutely great It's a definite welcome change. I just hope I just hope that there is much more to come as well I mean one new power and a raid bus won't be enough in regards to a Major content update to bring players back. I just I just know it won't be even a feature like this I just know it absolutely won't it needs to be some deep changes to the game going forward In regards to what breeding can offer and what you can achieve from it and a purpose to continue on to breed We need reason to breed. I mean, yes PVP sounds like a good reason to me But a lot of players won't be playing PVP. What about these players who just want to stick to PvE? People playing in the wrong worlds just do their own thing. There needs to be more on offer for said players, too Now a lot of this can come with new features They have planned that we see from the road map But I'm not sure that they plan to incorporate this within that next content update We see we're getting new pals. We've seen one new pal so far. We see it says PVP Palerina we've got PVP in general. We've got raid boss battles. We've got New islands, which I'm super super excited for but I'm not sure with this next content update It's what they plan to drop in a game that will get all this Just does something tells me at the back of my mind that this isn't happening. So got instinct guys I think what they plan to do is prepare a massive content update and this is the same thing They want players to test don't want to test this before that should drop into the game But for now, we'll get a small content update where they introduced this new pal And this raid as well as a few of our features like we're seeing here with a monitoring stand I think this is what they'll drop first and then we may get a bigger update later on But hey, I do hope I'm wrong this game needs content and it needs it relatively quite quickly I mean does the game is dropping off faster than I can say Phenomenonautical Microscopic Silicon Oasis. Let me tell you this game is dropping off It needs something to revive it. It really does We do live in a gaming world now where players do quickly move on Yes, there's always going to be that play that will come back no matter what But the majority of players I feel unless there's a massive content drop Which drastically change the game in game 2 and gives reason for players to continue on playing I'm honestly not sure about the future and how it will go. I really ain't I sit here and say this now I don't want it to be this way But I'm sitting here thinking about this and I've been thinking about it over the past few or four weeks now That the game fell off so fast It drastically needs new content and it drastically needs foundational changes to keep players playing for a longer time But in pocket pair I have faith the base game is incredible What they've achieved so far is incredible. A lot of people have spent money on this game So I do feel that a good majority of them will come back no matter what So yeah, hopefully it's soon out rather than later and hopefully we see new stuff added pretty soon because the game Really does need it now. Let me know your thoughts on this down below within that comments section I mean, do you feel the same way I feel do you feel that we will get a small content update first before we see The inclusions of pvp that pvp arena the new islands and this that and the other I think we we probably will I think we'll see a small update in regard to them adding this pal into the game And this first raid boss battle whatever this is to test the waters and then go on to add further more things Into the game with a larger content drop, which is like I said what they're planning On allowing people to fill out a form and play test. That's what I feel what's going to go down here But we will see guys we will see but let me know your thoughts Down below guys if you enjoyed the video leaving a like really helps If you like what you see and want to see more power world be sure to subscribe and hopefully guys I will see you on that next one


ক্দাইর্ ্দু ন্লেযু ন্দ্ র্দ্ ন্দাআকার্ পার্ ন্ন্ ম Heart вопрос Bhagwan Ji ka Khalsa This is our duty 1st lady should not think that this is just den列 are we used to give dips is the friendly living conditions, Q him running a little with his father in a house... ... mama flogging a Prior family living. dai dad da j like that, dada j so friendly life. ... rota, roti kan pei ch guk tan sad some, mede and challenge every day that your huge family have found a home for their children or have fun... But I don't care that they are like my daughters. And neither another one exists like my wife. Why do you say that every time I have to mention evbursts of backing down said my daughter didn't do anything good? See Mayor, living here is like a farmer having a family. And he took me to him because I thought you were Daiyaki. You can see that it is not easy to live on the streets.  mange ڈیوٹ diferenega ڈ livelihood of । । ॐ ौ ौ ौ ौ ौ ौ ौ ौ ौ ौ ौ ौ ौ ौ ौ ौ ौ ौ ौ ौ ौ ौ ौ ौ ौ ौ ौ ौ ौ ौ ौ ौ ौ ौ ौ ौ ौ ौ ौ ौ ौ ौ ौ ौ ौ ौ ौ ौ ौ ौ ौ ौ ौ ौ ौ ौ ौ ौ ौ ौ ौ ौ ौ ौ ौ ौ ौ ौ ौ ौ ौ ौ ौ  ڈ 이야기를 ́vepelled ڈ ڈprereat ړpre�� ?


you're about to hear is true. The names have been changed to protect the innocent. Fatima cigarettes. Best of all, king-sized cigarettes brings you dragnet on both radio and television.  You're assigned a juvenile division. You get a call from one of the bus-line terminals in your city. A seven-week-old baby has been abandoned in the depot waiting room. There's no sign of the mother. No lead to her whereabouts. Your job? Find her. Compare Fatima with any other king-sized cigarette. Prove Fatima quality yourself. You'll find Fatima's length filters the smoke 85 millimeters for your protection. Fatima's length cools the smoke for your protection. You'll find Fatima's length gives you those extra puffs 21 percent longer than standard cigarette size. And in Fatima you get an extra mild and soothing smoke plus the added protection of Fatima quality. Definitely the best quality in its class but the same price as the cigarette you're now smoking. Buy Fatima in the bright sunny yellow pack. Best of all, king-sized cigarettes. DRAGNET. The documented drama of an actual crime. For the next 30 minutes in cooperation with the Los Angeles Police Department, you will travel step by step on the side of the law through an actual case transcribed from official police violence. From beginning to end, from crime to punishment, DRAGNET is the story of your police force in action. It was Wednesday, August 14th. It was hot in Los Angeles. We were working the day watch out of juvenile division. My partner's Ed Jacobs. The boss is Captain Stein, Commander Juvenile Division. My name's Friday. We were on the way out from the office and it was 11.05 a.m. when we got to the corner of 6th and Los Angeles streets. The bus depot. Excuse me, ma'am. You Mrs. Lewis? Yes, that's right. Are you the police? Yes, ma'am. This is my partner Sergeant Jacobs. My name's Friday, Juvenile Division. Well, how do you do? I'm certainly glad you're here. I've been waiting around this depot for hours. I don't know what to do. The baby must be getting pretty heavy, ma'am. Like sit down over here. Tell us about it. All right. Thank you. Oh, that's all right, honey. You sleep now. Creepy boy. Well, thanks. Just a shame. Yes, ma'am. The report we got didn't go into detail. Some woman left the baby with you. Is that right? Yes, as soon as we got off the bus this morning, she said she'd only be gone a few minutes. It's been hours. I don't know what to do. Well, did you know the woman, Mrs. Lewis? Her name's Dorothy Miller. She's from Arizona. Tucson. We got off the bus and she asked me if I'd hold her baby while she went to get her luggage. She said she'd meet me right there by the information desk. Been waiting ever since. She hasn't come back. I don't know what to think of it. Well, how well do you know this Dorothy, ma'am? Well, not too well, but she seemed like such a nice girl. Friendly and very social. We sat together all the way in. You got on the bus with her two sons at it? Oh, no. I'm from Cincinnati. I got on the bus there and then went down to Dallas. Had a visit with an aunt of mine down there. I got another bus at Dallas to come off here. Went along the southern route. Very nice. Same bus I came in on this morning. I'm out here to meet my husband, Army man. He's coming in on a transport from Oghesee. Coming in tomorrow. Mm-hmm. When you say this, Dorothy, Miller boarded the bus at Tucson with her baby. She rode all the way into Los Angeles with you. Yes, right into this depot. She sat in the seat next to mine. He struck up a conversation. Got to be quite good friends. He's such a cute baby. I just can't imagine. Well, how'd the Miller woman seem to you, Ms. Lewis? All right? I mean, was there anything odd about her behavior? Anything unusual? No, nothing at all. Seemed to me to be a perfect mother. Took good care of the baby. Wonderful care. That's what's so upsetting. For her to go off like this, leave her baby with a stranger. Does make any sense? Well, now you say you talk to Ms. Dorothy Miller quite a bit along the way, ma'am. I beg your pardon? What was that? Maybe if we move out the car, Joe. It'd be a lot easier to talk to her. That's a good idea. Ms. Lewis, would you mind coming along with us to our car? It's parked just down the street. Should be a little quieter. Yes, all right. I have these two velices here. All right, I'll get them, ma'am. Oh, thank you. I'll be off this way. Excuse me. I'm sorry. Pardon me. Sorry? Pardon us, please. Help you with one of those, ma'am? No, that's okay. Just down the street here, ma'am. Oh, my. This is a beautiful day.  I was in trouble. Yes, ma'am. Can you make it all right, Ms. Lewis? Oh, yes, I think so. I'm gonna slip the velices and back. That's plenty of room, ma'am. Yeah, okay. Give me a hand. I know about this Miller woman, Ms. Lewis. I was going to ask you. Yeah? Well, did she happen to tell you where she lived in Tucson if she had any people there, any family? No, I don't recall anything like that. She talked about some of the girlfriends she had there, their babies. She didn't mention any of them by name, though. How about her description, Ms. Lewis? Anything unusual there? No, I wouldn't say so. Small girl. I put three or four, I'd say, 110 or 15 pounds, dark hair, shoulder length, dark eyes, nice complexion. Very pretty eyes. About how old would you say? 20, but she told me anyway. She said she had a birthday in May. I remember we talked about that. She was born under the same sign I was. Tars the bull. And all the talks she had with this Miller girl, she never gave you any reason to think that anything was wrong with her. She didn't seem to be despondent, depressed about anything. Perfectly normal girl, as far as I could tell. I just can't get over it. I can't imagine her doing anything like this. Well, how'd you see him this morning when you got in on the bus? Pretty much the same? Yes, I think so. We got off the bus together. She had her hands full with the baby, so I helped her off with the hand beliefs she was carrying. When we got inside the waiting room, she mentioned that she had to go pick up some luggage from the check stand. She asked me if I had mind very much holding her baby while she went after it. I said, no, not at all. She went around the corner of the baggage stand, and that's the last I saw of her. You checked around the depot, did you? And you had her paid? I talked to everyone in the place. The porters, ticket clerks, information desk, travelers' aid, not one of them could help. I tried everybody. Oh, dear. That's all right, girl. Little friends or nothing. You try and see. Don't you know that? Wonderful. He's adorable. It's a little boy. She said he's named Stephen. Yes, ma'am.  Yes. His hands least similar girl gave me to hold. I found a bottle full of formula in it. The man at the coffee shop warmed it for me.  Wait, I guess he'll be wanting some more pretty soon. I guess we better get back in, huh? Yeah, I guess so. I can't imagine it. I just can't imagine it, ma'am. This little boy. Just look at him. Yes, ma'am. Her own baby. So small and helpless. How could she go off and leave him? Well, I guess she had a reason. Must have been important. A seven-week-old baby? What's more important than that? Before we left the bus depot, Ed contacted the clerk at the depot information desk and left our card with him. If anyone came in to make inquiries about the abandoned child, he was to advise them to get in touch with us. 1148 a.m., the woman who'd been left with the baby, Mrs. Marjorie Lewis, agreed to return to the office with us and give us a complete report on everything she knew about the case. As soon as we got back, we briefed Captain Stein on what happened, and he assigned policewoman Betty Stone to come in and help out with the baby. A cursory examination seemed to indicate there was nothing abnormal about the baby, no apparent deformities. We checked the blanket and the baby's clothing, but we found no identifying marks of any use to us. Policewoman Stone made the baby comfortable for the time being, and then she began to check through the contents of the small police, which the baby's mother had left with Mrs. Lewis. It contained the usual assortment, baby oil, powdered dextrose, a few cans of milk, a couple of blankets, and the supply of diapers. Ed and I continued to interview Mrs. Lewis. Is this the middle woman's first baby, do you know, or did she happen to mention it? Yes, it's her first. That's what she told me anyway. Did you talk about the baby's health at all? Was there any trouble there, would you know? Well, she did say she had some trouble with the formula at first. Didn't seem to suit the baby. Wasn't anything serious, though. As a matter of fact, that does worry me a little bit, Sergeant. What's that? The baby's formula. Mrs. Miller did say it had to be fixed a special way. Some special medicine she put in it, too. Are you sure the baby's going to get good care? Yes, ma'am, there's no need to worry. He'll be moved to General Hospital. I'll look after him. But the special formula, the medicine she was giving him, will they know about that? Will they know how to feed him? Well, they've handled cases like this before Ms. Lewis. They're pretty competent people. They all know what to do. I truly hope so. I don't know why I'm so concerned. I guess just the little fellas are small, all alone, so helpless.  Yes, ma'am. About this special formula, the baby has to have. What's the reason for that, would you know?  No, I don't think so. Mrs. Miller did say he was a little sickly when he was born, spent a little time in an incubator. I don't think it was critical, though. At least I didn't gather that. Well, thank you very much, Ms. Lewis. Appreciate your cooperation, everything you've done on that. Not at all, Sergeant. I only wish I could be more helpful. You mind telling us where you'll be stopping in town, ma'am? Possible. We might have to contact you again. Well, I don't have any reservations. I was thinking of staying at a hotel close to downtown. And there's a big convention in town. Most of the places are pretty crowded. We'd be glad to help you find a hotel space, if you like. Oh, well, that's certainly very nice of you. Not at all. Sergeant Sotty, could I see a minute, please? Yes, all right. Would you excuse me, please? Surely. Yeah, Betty? Or a policewoman. I'm not bad at checking diapers. How do you mean? Over here. The police, the mother left with Mrs. Lewis. Mm-hmm. Did you come up with anything? Didn't think so at first. Went over the police, everything inside, nothing. And I started putting the things back in the bag, found this and that stack of diapers there. Mm-hmm. Paid receipt for a hospital bill, maternity ward. Santa Maria Hospital, Tucson. There's a patient's name right there at the top. Mm-hmm.  Then we sent a communication to the Tucson Police Department laying out the story for them and asking them to check with the Santa Maria Hospital there for a possible lead on the missing mother. Meantime, the baby was removed to General Hospital. We found accommodations for Mrs. Lewis at a downtown hotel.  We tried to locate the driver of the bus on which the Miller woman and her baby had arrived that morning. We were told he was off duty and that he wouldn't report back until eight o'clock the following morning. We left our card along with a message for the driver asking him to contact us as soon as he returned. For the rest of the afternoon, Ed and I, along with the two other men from juvenile division, checked with all the bus depot personnel, but we were unable to turn up any kind of a lead. After that, we started making rounds at the hotels, bars, restaurants, and taxi cab stands in the neighborhood. The same results, nothing. 7.55 a.m. the following morning, I reported back in for work. Morning, Joe. All right, Betty. Ed, check in yet. Uh-huh. I went out for a minute, so I'll be right back. What do you know? Anything new? Communication for you from the Tucson PD. Kickback on that query. You got off to him yesterday. I think you had left it in your box. Oh, thanks, Betty. I'll get it. Do you see this? Ed showed it to me, yeah. Confirms the fact the woman had her baby in that hospital. Still not much help though. Yeah, I see. They checked out her last known address in Tucson. She moved no forwarding address, no line in her relatives or friends. The day the baby was born seems to check out. June 24th. Makes the baby just about seven weeks old, doesn't it? This part here doesn't make much sense, though, does it? The Miller girl's description? Yeah. Ms. Lewis said Dorothy Miller was small and dark, long, dark hair, dark eyes. People at the hospital described her as being blonde, fairly tall. Blue eyes, long blonde hair, about 29, 30 years old. Ms. Lewis said the Miller girl just turned 20, didn't she? Man, that's what she said. She doesn't figure. Little too much to write off as coincidence. Two Dorothy Millers having babies. Same day, same hospital. Now I just happen to think this description of the Miller girl. Fairly tall, long blonde hair. Ms. Lewis has long blonde hair, hadn't she? Benny. Oh, hi, Joe. Hi, what's doing? That bus driver we wanted to talk to, wanted to draw the bus Dorothy Miller and the baby came in on yesterday. That description Ms. Lewis gave us of Dorothy Miller. Driver doesn't remember anyone like that on his bus. He remembered Ms. Lewis though. She didn't get on the bus at Dallas. She didn't sit next to a young girl with a baby either. Driver says he's sure of it. Oh, and what's the pitch? Ms. Lewis got on the bus at Tucson. She had a baby in her arms. You are listening to Dragnet. 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Best of all king size cigarettes. 8.35 a.m. Ed Jacobs and I went into the adjoining room where we continued to interview the bus driver, the same man who'd been driving the bus on which Mrs. Lewis and the abandoned baby and his mother supposedly had arrived in Los Angeles the day before. The more we talked to the driver the more he convinced us that the story we'd gotten from Mrs. Marjorie Lewis was a long way from the truth. He repeated that he was absolutely sure that Mrs. Lewis did not get on the bus at Dallas, that she boarded the bus at Tucson and that at the time she got on she was holding a baby in her arms. He was just as positive that Mrs. Lewis held the baby in her arms all the way to Los Angeles and that she did not sit next to a young dark haired girl but an elderly woman. He also told us that none of his passengers on that particular trip fitted the description of Dorothy Miller as given us by Mrs. Lewis. 8.50 a.m. Before the bus driver left we got his address and a phone number where we could get in touch with him if necessary. 9.05 a.m. Ed and I got in the car, drove to the downtown hotel where Mrs. Lewis was staying and called her room from the phone in the lobby. She told us that her husband, Army Captain Walter Lewis, had arrived in from overseas earlier that morning and checked in at the hotel. I asked her if her husband was with her but she said no. He was downstairs at the hotel barber shop. Ed and I got in the elevator and went up to see her. Outside and down on the street you could hear the sounds of a parade passing by. It was American Legion Convention Week, the traditional parade. Some parade in it. Oh, good morning, officers. Come in, please. Hi. Thank you very much, ma'am. What happened? Did you find out anything? Well, a few things, ma'am. We've been checking around. Two or three more questions we'd like to ask if you don't mind. Well, no, not at all. How's the baby? Are they taking care of you? Is he all right? Yes, ma'am. He's fine. We checked at the hospital. He's doing real well. Oh, I'm glad. And the Miller Grill. Dorothy Miller, did you find out anything? We haven't been able to locate her. No trace for at all. That's why we're here, Mrs. Lewis. A few things we'd like to have you straighten out for us. Well, I'll do anything I can to help. I think I already told you everything I could remember about the girl. Well, now we're going to be honest with you, Ms. Lewis. We don't think you're telling the truth. What? Well, I don't understand. We talked to the man who was driving the bus she came in on yesterday. The same bus you say Dorothy Miller and her baby were on. Yes, that's right. Well, the bus driver couldn't remember the Miller girl. Told us none of his passengers even came close to her description. Well, there was quite a few people on the bus. I guess you can't blame him for not remembering her. You remembered you, Ms. Lewis.  He doesn't remember anyone with the baby sitting next to you, though. I guess he made a mistake. He can't remember everything. Well, he said you were holding the baby. I don't understand this. What is it you're trying to find out? Well, when we talked to you yesterday, you told us that you got on the bus at Dallas, isn't that right? Yes. What would that have to do with it? Well, the bus driver says you got on a Tucson. You seem to remember it pretty well. He says when you got on the bus, you were holding a baby in your arms. Well, that's silly. He's wrong. He must have me confused with somebody else. I don't see how, man. He says you were the only woman on the bus with the baby. What's the point of this, Sergeant? I don't understand any of this. Well, frankly, neither do we. I don't know why you're lying to us about this, but apparently you are. You're wrong. I'm not lying. It happened just the way I told you. The girl gave me the baby to hold, and then she disappeared. There's no reason for me to lie about that. We found a receipt for a hospital bill in that police with the baby's things in it. The receipt was made out to Dorothy Miller. Well, that proves it, doesn't it? She was on the bus with me, and her baby was with it. The check was made with a hospital at Tucson. They remember the name Dorothy Miller. She gave birth to a baby boy about seven weeks ago. She wasn't the same girl you described to us, though. The description wasn't even close. Well, it must be a mistake. I guess somebody made a mistake. I can't understand any of this. Well, they sent us back a description of the Dorothy Miller who stayed at the hospital. It was a fairly tall woman, long blonde hair, about 29 to 30. Yes. The description fits you, Miss Lewis. It fits almost perfectly. That's wrong. Has to be wrong. The whole thing's a mistake. I beg your pardon? I say the whole thing is a mistake. It has to be wrong. No, I don't think so, ma'am. Why don't you tell me? What do you think? Tell me, please. There is no Dorothy Miller. There never was. There's no such person, ma'am. That's what you really think. I invented it. I made it all up. Did you? And the baby? What about him? There's no Dorothy Miller. What about the baby? I don't know. Do you want to tell us? Miss Lewis? Yes. Yes. Miss Lewis, can I get something for you? Thank you. I'm all right. I suppose I knew it would happen sometime. I try not to think about it. Ma'am. When you called from downstairs, I knew you'd found out. That's why you asked. My husband was with me, isn't it? He didn't want to embarrass me. We wanted to give you a chance to tell you a side of the story. Thought maybe you wanted to keep it from your husband. No. It doesn't matter. I'll tell him. He'll be back in a few minutes. You can do anything you want. I won't blame you.  All right. Do you want to tell us about it? Well, I think you know. My baby. My own baby, and I couldn't keep him. There wasn't anything else to do. Nothing. My own baby.  Miss Lewis?  Big crowds for the parade. They're lined all the way up the street. You must have had a reason for it, Miss Lewis, giving your baby away. Now, do you want to tell us about it? Yes, all right. It won't make any difference, Don. It's all done. My husband, I'm thinking about. Walter. I'm going to have to hurt him, and I don't want to hurt him. I don't know how I'm going to tell him. Tell him what, ma'am? I tried to make him understand all the time before he left for overseas. It was almost two years ago. I tried to make him understand. He wouldn't listen. He didn't believe me. He thought I was fooling. Yes, ma'am. I love him, Sergeant. I tried to explain. I didn't want to be alone, having him away all the time. I knew there was going to be trouble. I knew it. I didn't want to be alone. He didn't understand. He only said I was fooling. Yes, ma'am. He left for overseas in October, Walter, almost two years ago. I went down to Wilmington. I saw him leave on the boat. I stood there and watched him go. I wasn't going to see him. Twenty-four months. I wouldn't see him. No children, no family. It's a two-room apartment. He only believed me. He only would have taken me with him. Where were you living at that time, ma'am? Up the coast, just the side of Santa Barbara. I told Walter. I couldn't be alone. I needed something. He only had children. He'd only taken me with him. It didn't have to be this way. He could have taken me with him. He could have arranged it. He wouldn't. He left me here alone. I tried to tell him. He left me here alone. Yes, ma'am. I took it for a year. A whole year. Two-room apartment, being alone. I wrote to Walter twice a week. He wrote to me. He didn't do any good. He didn't want me with him. A whole year. And it got too much. You mean you could have joined him overseas? I don't know why. I kept writing to him. He kept putting me off a whole year. It got too much. Two-room apartment, alone. You can't spend your life that way. I started going out, having dates. I had to get out. I started going to parties. Different people. I guess I drank too much. I didn't want to be alone. I guess I always drank too much. There's one party. I don't even remember who I went with. I guess it was drinking. I don't know. When I left, I don't even remember who I was with. It didn't have to be this way. It didn't have to happen like this. Are you all right, Ms. Lewis? Or is something we can get you? No, I'm all right. I didn't know what to do when I found out. Are the doctors? He didn't understand either. I mean, the way I felt. I said the baby would be born in June. I cried. He didn't understand. Yes, ma'am. When the time came, I went to Tucson, Arizona. Had my baby. Laced, I wasn't alone. Used a different name at the hospital. Dorothy Miller. Maybe it wasn't Walter's baby, but it was mine. It was mine. I thought at first it wouldn't make much difference, but it did, though. It did. Ma'am. I knew what it'd mean. I loved Walter. I still love him. But if he found out I knew what it would mean. I couldn't even think about it. I love Walter. I couldn't even think about telling him. So you figured on giving up the baby. Giving him away, is that the idea? I can't tell you how many times I worked it out in my mind. Day after day, I almost went crazy with it. Walter, the baby, which one? I finally decided Walter. Don't you think it's fair? Don't you? Well, I wouldn't know, ma'am. It's your decision. It's up to you. I don't know how to tell him. Won't you help me, please? Help me tell Walter. All right. You like? That's a terrible thing. I mean, to make a choice when you have to hurt somebody. You have to choose between the two of them. One of them has to be hurt. Ma'am. My husband and my baby. Which one? 1038 a.m. at Mrs. Lewis' request, Ed and I stayed on at the hotel room until our husband, Army Captain Walter, Lewis returned. He was a tall, dark-haired man in his late 30s. Dark eyes, tan complexion. Mrs. Lewis was waiting in the adjoining room. It wasn't easy, but as best we could, Ed and I briefed the husband on what had happened. His first reaction was fairly normal. He took it pretty hard. We kept on talking to him. After a while, he calmed down. We laid out the whole story for him again. She turned the baby over to the police, is that it? She gave the baby up? Yes, sir. She figured it was the only thing she could do. Kind of hard to believe, isn't it? What's the answer? What am I supposed to do? Well, sir, I know it's none of our business, Captain. I think you might try looking at it from your wife's point of view, maybe. What do you mean? Well, it's pretty obvious. She's still in love with you. I think she's showing you that. Yeah. I thought she was in a jam. It was a big choice for her to make. She knew she was wrong. She made a mistake. She was ready to pay for it. It was either you or the baby. She knew that. She decided to give up the baby. Baby's all right now? Somebody's taking care of him? Yes, sir. Baby boy. Where's March now, my wife? In the next room. I want to see her. Well, maybe you should wait just a little longer. No, it's all right. Just want to tell her something, aren't you? What can I say, Walter? Sorry. Sorry there's many of that to say. You don't have to say anything, March. You can do what you want. I won't blame you. Get it right. Do anything you want. I just want to tell you, Walter, I love you. And I'm sorry. Sit down, Mark. Sit down. I won't blame you, Walter. Anything you do, I won't blame you. It's going to be all right, honey. Nothing to cry about. Everything will be all right. Try and take it easy, dear. We've got a little mistake here. I guess I made my share of it. Let's let our work out, officer. Yes, sir. I'd like to ask you a favor. You got a car downstairs? Yes, sir. We do. I wonder if you'd mind dropping us by the hospital. I'd like to see my son. The story you've just heard was true. The names were changed to protect the innocent. On Thursday, August 15, the meeting was held in the district attorney's office sitting in County of Los Angeles, State of California. In a moment, the results of that meeting. And now, here is our star, Jack Webb. Thank you, George Feynman. Friends, you've just heard the 130th consecutive dragnet broadcast for Fatima. Now, the only reason we're able to bring you these programs is because so many of you have switched to Fatima. If you haven't tried Fatimas yet, I wish you'd do this. Buy a pack and compare them with a king-sized cigarette you've been smoking. You'll find Fatima gives you an extra mild and soothing smoke. You'll like Fatima's better flavor and aroma. What's more, I kind of think you'll agree with me. Fatima's the best of all king-sized cigarettes. At the meeting in the district attorney's office, it was decided that in the interests of justice, no criminal complaint be filed against Mrs. Marjorie Lewis. The baby was released to the custody of her and her husband. Ladies and gentlemen, Betty Mills, western representative of Radio and Television Mirror Magazine. The editors of Radio and Television Mirror are happy to announce that in the annual awards poll conducted by Radio and TV Mirror Magazine, American radio listeners from coast to coast have voted dragnet, their favorite program of its type, for the second consecutive year. In addition, the nation's radio listeners have voted Jack Webb, their favorite dramatic radio actor. Thank you very much, Betty, on behalf of our cast, our entire production staff and myself. Be sure to read the feature story about Jack Webb and the current issue of Radio and Television Mirror Magazine. Now on the newsstands. You have just heard dragnet, a series of authentic cases from official files. Technical advice comes from the office of chief of police, W.H. Parker, Los Angeles Police Department. Technical advisors Captain Jack Donahoe, Sergeant Marty Wynne, Sergeant Vance Brasher. Heard tonight were Barney Phillips, Virginia Craig, Harry Bartell, Helen Cleave. Script by Jim Moser. Music by Walter Schumann. Hell, give me speaking. Fatima cigarettes. Best of all, king-sized cigarettes has brought you dragnet transcribed from Los Angeles. Next, it's Mr. Keene, tracer of Los Persons on NBC.


And I'm very happy to have two speakers here who will tell us about their experiences on the Juventa, the ship that was seized in August this year. Katrin has been doing search and rescue operations in the Mediterranean since two years, and she was on board when the boat was seized, when the Juventa was seized, and she was even head of staff. Hendrik has also been active in search and rescue operation as a RIP, RIP, which is a kind of special function, and he's also been doing this for two years, approximately for different NGOs. And I'm very happy that they're here and can tell us about what happened on the Juventa. So we have translation to German on the mumble that is in the back now, and yeah. Please welcome them to, with a big applause, thank you. Hello, you hear the talk, the seizure of the Juventa, the attack on the Juventa, from 34th Chaos Communication Congress in the translation of Siri and Philipp. Hello everybody, welcome to the talk. We are glad that a few people made it here. We actually planned for the talk. When we planned for this talk, we planned for an hour, so there's a lot of content in the description. And we noticed two weeks ago that we only had half an hour. So we really have to focus on it now. What I will do, I will give you a quick introduction. I will give you a little introduction in the Mediterranean area, where we move to the Middle East. And after that, we will talk about the actual seizure of the Juventa. This is Katrin, I'm Henrik, if you've already noticed. So yeah, I like maps. So I put this map in the slides. So I put this map in there. So migration has happened, we all know that. People want to get to Europe for a better and safer life. And they flee from various reasons. War, violence, discrimination, or poverty. They all have their reasons at home to disappear. And what we see here are the routes that take these refugees. And they change constantly. And that also depends on the changing political environment. We have different routes through the Mediterranean for a while. We have the eastern route. It was very famous two years ago when many people moved from Turkey to Greece. That was basically closed. We have the western route, ten to fifteen years ago, when people from Morocco wanted to go to Spain and over the Canary Islands. And at the moment we're looking at the middle of the Mediterranean, where most of the migration is happening. People mostly want to go from Libya. That's the brown thing down there, to Italy. In the last couple of months, there were also people from Tunisia who wanted to go over there. But still the majority of the migration is happening through Libya. So to give you a better understanding of what we're talking about, we drew a map with a couple of distances. This is a Nautical Mile. That's the unit we use to give you an example. Under perfect conditions, there will be a refugee boat that will leave Libya for three days in Lampedusa. More than four days in Malta and five and a half in Sicily. That would be under perfect conditions. There are always waves and winds. The boats don't have a compass and don't know where they want to go. So the only boat that we know that came to Malta was for eight days on the way. These distances that people cross are very long. So the classic boats we encounter are these here. Below you see a wooden boat. These are very different, big. From 100 to 1000 people, almost everything is on it. Mostly 500 people, plus or minus 100. But up to 1000 people fit in. And on the upper part you see the typical boat that was used last summer. The scummy boat, 120 to 150 people fit in. But we also have 180 people in it. So these conditions, like these boats, the long distances, these are not really seawater boats, they make the most dangerous route in the world. Most people who want to cross the border want to die. They do that in the Mediterranean. These are statistics from Missing Migrants Project. They collect data only from the known dead. And these are not absolute numbers. These are just the relation. The big, dark, blue part is the part of people who die in the Mediterranean compared to the rest of the world. So I think you see that the Mediterranean is a very dangerous route. But people have to take this route, because Europe and its allies take the shorter and safer routes. That's international law. Law requires that we meet people in need. And we have always followed these laws of the sea and that usually is up to the European Union, but they are willing to do that. So we are ready to rescue these people. So the region we are operating in... Thanks. The region we are operating in is also regulated by international laws. We have Libyan law, where the Libyan law attacks. And then there is the zone where the 12-mile zone... That is also part of the Libyan... ...international waters. But it is also part of international law. Law enforcement rights are still international waters. And that is the international waters, in which the authorities have a lot of time, but it is in principle international waters. And that is the area where we find the most boats. And that is where we work up to the 12-mile zone. So to be able to conduct effective operations, we need, of course, to buy a ship. To do that, we have to... We have to buy a ship. Then we bought the Juventa. And the Juventa was sent to the area where most of the boats were sent to the area where most of the boats were sent to. And that means we are actively looking for boats to search for them. So we cannot wait on Malta until ships get there. And these boats are moving slowly, so we cannot wait on Malta, because it will take 24 hours until we get there. For us it is important when people leave the coast. Because the boats you saw earlier... They are actually necessary as soon as they get to the open sea. So we need to go there before they depart. The Juventa is a very small ship. There is not much people fitting on there. And the transfer usually can take only the crew. When we find the boats in the stress, we take the life jackets, and bring out life rafts and evacuate people on the life rafts. You can see one of the bigger ships here. It is the Vosprudens. This is the Vosprudens. It was used by MSF. And it can take way more people. And it can take way more people. And it can take way more people. And it can take way more people. And it can take way more people. Together with these ships, we work with the anchors in Rome. So... And they are responsible for the necessary quotient of thisipping. And they have to coordinate it. And they have to coordinate it. They always organize the transport of these migrants and do it with these ships and don't do it by themselves. But you have to pay attention that it is not an unappreciative action, but that it belongs to the Italian government. This is an advice from the Innenministerium. As I have already said, the Juventa is not meant to transport people, but to secure them. That was always communicated with the MRCC. We were always the first helpers and then the situation ensured. This is how we operated from the beginning. We also operated with another NGO ship. We were the first to secure the people and then we transferred them to Italy. All the other NGOs help there. We are not alone. This was a successful proof of the concept. The concept is that we have smaller boats that secure the people. As soon as they are secure, they transfer them to the bigger ships and bring them to a safe place. In May 2017, something changed for Juventa. Suddenly things started changing. One thing I want to emphasize again is that everything we have done is under coordination in Rome and Italy. Until then, we had a very good working relationship with the successful and very efficient search operations. Maybe a little bit too efficient. We can say that a chain of interesting events in May began. The situation we are talking about now is when we received emergency signals from various refugee boats. We called these boats and they asked us for help to rescue these people. Until then, this was not an unusual situation. But then we suddenly had to leave the rescue zone and go to Lampedusa.  And go away. This has never happened before. As you can imagine, we were a little bit pulled back. Should we do that or not? We would have had to follow the sequence. But that would have meant that we had to leave people in need. And I can remember the people who had kept the youth in the zone. But at some point we had to leave and go to Lampedusa. And later we learned that these two days in which the youth were not there, that one of the most active rescue periods was in 2017. Several hundred people lost their lives. And the remaining capacities in the rescue zone were simply not large enough. So this very procedure happened twice. Once again in May and once again in June. And once again we were absolutely dark about what could have happened to the devil. And we realized that something had changed. The good working relationship with the MICC was no longer so good. But we did not understand what happened. Why did they take so much of themselves? And I mean, we have to realize that we have to recognize that this is an authority. Because the task is to coordinate rescues, to save people on the lake. And they pull back and reduce active search and rescue ships from the time zones and places where they are most needed. And we are very surprised and I would say speechless. And of course we could expect many scenarios. We could imagine that the situation in which they were not quite easy. We have often said that this is not likely because they are totally overwhelmed with these more complicated rescues in the middle of the sea. And that just leads to a bad decision. But these things just happened more often. And at the end of July the Italian coast guard took two migrants aboard the Juventa. They took them on a very small rubber boat from Tripoli and they asked us to take them aboard. So it was a bit strange that it never happened before. We just learned from Henrik. Their boats are usually a bit bigger than four meters and there are mostly more people than two on it. But what happened out there is of course never normal. So we took these two people aboard. And we kept these people on the boat for two days before we had any instructions on what we should continue. But I somehow expected that we would continue to Lampedusa. So on the way to Lampedusa, halfway around, we got another emergency signal from Rome about a boat that just left Tunisia in the early morning. And what was really interesting on that day was that we had super precise instructions on how to carry out our search pattern with coordinates and distances and exact speeds. And they were in absolute control about what and how we did it and always made sure that we followed their plan. It never happened before because they were never really interested in it. They were interested in how we did it as long as we did something. While they were making us perform a search pattern, they would have taken us three days to complete. They gave us a search pattern that would take three days to complete and they didn't need official instructions or any number to register it. That would be necessary for the process. Probably worth adding is that also the Lampedusa is the only ship that... And they should also add that the Lampedusa was the only ship that was involved in it. Between Tunisia and Lampedusa had not been... And some ships in between were not informed and they were in the region. The MSCC was asked, but she continued to ask and we said that we couldn't allow them to join into the search. And then they allowed them to participate and to try the surveillance plane by SeaWatch, the Moonbird. And it was completely rejected. We also requested a private search plane, but it was rejected from morning until evening and it was never left. And do you believe it or not? We were still not convinced that the MSCC... ...the Ministry of Interior in Italy... ...we were still... ...we never believed that the police could do something like that. We simply couldn't imagine where it would lead us. We reached Italian territory waters. At the moment where we reached Italian territory... ...four coast guard ships accompanied us to Lampedusa. And we were searched and captured on the 2nd of October. The 2nd of August. And then it slowly became clear what would happen there. And now we can search as well as for the seafarers... ...one day before we actually came to Lampedusa. And the whole search was followed by the media. And they waited in the middle of the night for us at the dock. And then we thought about where the search was going to lead us. And then we thought about where the search was going to lead us. And then we thought about where the search pattern was going to lead us. But one thing we know for sure now is that when they withdrew the Juventa... ...when they took the Juventa out of the dock... ...they stole a buck on the bridge. That was a price they were willing to pay to leave a wall on the bridge. The Juventa back to Lampedusa, I mean now that kind of starts making sense. And now the fact that the Juventa is often ordered back makes sense. Maybe the SD card wasn't that big. Round about the same time when the buck was installed... ...when the wall was placed on the bridge. There was also one undercover cop place on another private... ...it was also a... ...a policeman covered on another ship placed. ...by the Italian authorities was started as early as September 2016. And the actions of the Italian police were started as early as August 2016. They had not only organized crime in Sicily... ...special police forces that were responsible for organized crimes... ...but also political people in Italy. And the statements didn't match... ...but still they had a large investigation... ...proclaimed. What they did was that we had illegal immigration... ...that we had weapons until this day... ...and until this day there are no... ...no evidence against any crew member or organization. And I think that's also good for them... ...because what they wanted they have... ...they have bought time, they have a ship less... ...in the rescue area. And as soon as they have a court... ...they have to prove what could be a problem for them. So the seizure of the Juventus was a preventive measure... ...and it was only enabled by anti-mafia laws... ...that were allowed. They were also used for similar things... ...for example Cup at the Moor in 2005... ...and Tunisian Fisher in 2007. In both cases they were... ...entered by the attack, but of course the damage was done. And of course we went against it in between... ...in a court, but it was given back... ...and it was continued in the court of law... ...and we are now waiting for them to decide... ...if the seizure of the Juventus was legal or not. So what we had to learn in the afternoon... ...was that the seizure of the Juventus was only a small part... ...in a much larger political fight. What the EU actually wants is... ...that the central Mediterranean route is closed... ...and what they also don't want are pictures of people... ...so what they don't want is ships to be sent to send these people... ...but they want to get rid of the witnesses... ...who document the drinking of people and save them. So they want to work on the NGOs. So what we learned is that the fight for the Juventus... ...which we are currently fighting is not a legal fight... ...but a political fight... ...and we are fighting this fight together with a lot of other NGOs... ...who are most active there. For us, of course, the name of the fight is a fight back... ...we don't have ships we can operate with... ...but I can still see with all this pressure... ...there are sometimes positive surprises... ...for example in December when the UN... ...made an evacuation flight from Libya to Europe... ...and that was only possible... ...because all the media work... ...that the NGOs did... ...so that they could react... ...and what it shows us was... ...that we have patience... ...and that we can always drill a few small holes... ...in the fortress of Europe. So let's continue this fight. Thank you very much. So we have questions... ...we have some microphones in the room... ...where you can go and... So hello. Thank you for the good work. You have a number... ...a gun... ...so it is no... ...there was no evidence for that... ...or evidence for that. And we have learned... ...that they had to add that... ...in order to justify the assault... ...otherwise the others wouldn't be... ...strong enough to justify the assault. Thank you for the talk. Three small questions. How much did the Juventure cost? What cost to buy a new ship? And is that possible? I don't know... ...how much the ship cost. Do you know that? I know about... ...how much the ship cost. Now... ...that would be... ...about... ...180 to 150,000... ...euros. And... ...is that possible or not? From an economic point of view... ...is that possible? People have already done that... ...it is probably possible to do it again... ...politically... ...it is probably difficult... ...to continue doing that. What are the right actions we can do? We have a question from the internet. Is that the only thing that happened to a ship... ...or are there other ships that were hit? The hit is unique... ...but there were other ships... ...that were searched by the police. Can I add something to the answer of that question? Can I add something to the question? In our act... ...we have evidence that they... ...were working against the Juventa crew. There were also evidence that they... ...used the other... ...cruises... ...and abandoned them. And we... ...used the other... ...cruises... ...and we were just... ...a longer... ...bis... ...I have half a year off... ...let's say... ...where... ...I sign... ...that sounds good... ...I can invite you to our assembly... ...that is the Juvenas assembly in hall 2. So just come and talk to us and talk to us and find us there. Okay, one last question. I hope it's a short question. I hope it's a short question. We only have two minutes. Thanks for the talk and thanks for the work you do. Was it actually legal? Was it legal operation they did that? Was it legal operation they did that? Was it legal operation they did that? We know that there is a WANZE because it is in the Act and the Act is 500 pages. We know the exact time and date when the WANZE and where it was built. We know not that action was legal because we are looking at Italian authorities. He doesn't know exactly how legal it is because in the Italian authorities, on a ship under a Dutch flag, many from Germany come. So far we have no clear answers to the question. We have asked some lawyers and it actually happens too often. We also invite you to come to our assembly and talk about it. Okay, so like the two said, assembly hall two, where you can meet them, where you can ask more questions. Thank you once again.