Hello and welcome to NewsClick, this program with Real News. We have with us D. Raghunandan, member of the Low Carbon Committee of the Planning Commission and of the Delhi Science Forum. We will be discussing the Paris Agreement and India's ratification of the same recently. India has ratified the Paris Agreement and with this we are very close to the 55 percent figure, which is when the treaty comes into force, I think we are now at the 52 percent mark. That question held it to be an inequitable treaty, even though we had agreed to, we are a party to it, but it had really said that Paris Agreement is not really equitable. It has dropped historical responsibility, we denied it for some time, but later on the United States clarified, forget all about historical responsibility and so on. Should this treaty have been ratified at all, why should this treaty be ratified in that case? My take on this is that once countries had discussed all the pros and cons and approved the treaty at Paris, then not to ratify it really doesn't come across as logical unless you can cite some either new reasons or come out in the open and say frankly we have done a rethink and we don't think we should have signed the treaty in Paris. We should have agreed to this treaty. So if you have agreed with it in Paris, then I think it would take some rather special circumstances or reasons for any country to now say they will not ratify. European Union is still not ratified, any reasons why? They actually were going through a rather tortuous process of ratification, which meant individual countries had to sign on and then the European Union as a whole would ratify. I think the European Union is highly embarrassed at the fact that and I think this was also one of the reasons for India ratifying this because I think the US and other countries pushed India into ratifying saying it would be diplomatically better for India to be seen to ratify it in the lead up to the 55 percent requirement to be one of the leading countries contributing to ratification rather than do it post facto. When everybody else is ratified then you say okay I will also join. The EU is in that position today and I think India's ratification has put the EU under pressure. They have held an emergency meeting of the council. The European Commission has agreed now to ratify and they are going to deposit their instrument of ratification with individual countries ratification coming thereafter. Okay, so they have reversed the process. They have reversed the process. You know the other issue is well this is a there could two arguments against the Paris Agreement and both remain valid. One is it puts the really the responsibility of stopping climate change much more on the developing countries then on the ones who have caused the problem. They continue to emit large amounts and what they are really doing is using up the remaining carbon space so that those countries which are lead developers particularly the LDCs including countries like India which have really low per capita emissions but they are denied of carbon space. So this is one part of it. Any redressal on this what are the arguments that are going around? I think as you said in your introductory remarks we have long argued many of us in this country and elsewhere in the world that the Paris Agreement is an iniquitous agreement. It does do precisely what you say by ignoring historical emissions and adopting only a forward looking approach. You are now looking at a situation where emissions from China, India and other large developing countries are on the rise and justifiably so while those from the developed countries are either climbing slowly or are plateauing and declining. So at this stage if you only look forward naturally it looks as if the big emitters are China, India and the others and they are on a growing trajectory. Unfortunately this is the structure which the world has accepted at Paris. Now question is therefore it became either we have a bad deal or no deal and no deal is ultimately could be a civilizational collapse. So that is why finally we gave into the developed countries pressure to sign this in Paris. That and partly it is as a result of the European Union which could have taken a much tougher stand on this issue. The European Union has always come across or like to be seen as a green champion adopting a moral position on climate if you like. But in the lead up to Paris the European Union has really bent over backwards to accommodate the United States and the United States from the beginning has made it clear it would not accept a firewall between the developed and the developing countries which was there in Kyoto and that it would only accept a forward looking agreement. When you say forward looking you mean no historical emissions. No historical emissions you do not look back at all that is what has happened look from now onwards. Which could be called grandfathering I have captured so much of the carbon space I will continue in the future to also capture that amount. Coming to this the augury for global climate does not look very good because we already at the 1.6 degree 1.8 degree kind of threshold. So 2 degrees the argument that we could just be limited below 2 degrees does it seem feasible at the moment? Not at all there is no assessment of projections. No scientific body has made any projections which would show that with the nationally determined contributions the voluntary contributions in emission reductions that countries have now made. If you totem all up together we are looking at something like 3.3 degrees to 3.5 degrees some estimates show even more of a temperature rise this is what we are looking at. So 2 degrees is forget it we are already past that stage where you are going you know you are going to reach 2 degrees Celsius more so that is I think a non-reachable solution. It still remains to be seen now once you have crossed 3.5 somewhere in the middle of the century maybe at 2070 or 2080 whether you can manage to pull it back a little bit below 3.5. So this nationally determined voluntary cuts as it were or emission figures that are being offered really is not addressing the problem what should be the total global emissions and therefore how should we control this rather it is more ok we will live with what people are offering and hope for the best. That how you would describe absolutely I mean this is a drive to the bottom that is the way I would see it because once you say we will go along with the system of voluntary contributions and the logic was a top down system which the Kyoto protocol was which had set targets for countries but with no penal provisions no way by which you could penalize a country for not reaching those targets meant that people were not adhering to the convention. So the argument in favor of this bottom up voluntary contribution method was since you are volunteering it you are likely to abide by that because it is your own commitment rather than a target given by anybody else but what this means then is all countries are volunteered extremely low targets in terms of what could be done and the developed countries in particular have placed extremely low targets on the table. In fact if you apportion the voluntary contributions made by the developed and the developing countries all the developing countries put together have offered emission reductions of about 2.5 times the emission cuts of the developed countries. So already we are making huge contributions much larger contributions to solving the problem than they are after having agreed to grandfathering of the emissions. The other set of questions which arise the internal government had pledged to the parliament that they will not cross the red lines before they had gone to Paris or what had been said by the parliament and they will come back and explain what the implication of the Paris agreement would be for Indian policies power sector burning of fossil fuels and so on but nothing has been placed on the on the record and even say three weeks before they are announcing they could design the Paris agreement they had said we have to work out the legal and other implications of the Paris agreement again nothing has been forthcoming on that. So what does this indicate flip flop? Two aspects to this I think one is the question with which we began was India right or wrong in ratifying it. To me what was the big puzzle was when the issue of ratification came up India suddenly seemed to be doing a lot of toing and froing on the question first saying we have lots of problems we have not gone through the internal processes. This is the G20 platform. At the G20 platform then saying you know the NSGE agreement of the nuclear suppliers group is hanging fire so unless we are assured of nuclear supplies we do not think we would be able to really come up with what we have said although frankly speaking none of the INDCs that we have suggested or the emission reductions are really contingent on nuclear power. In any case being a member of the nuclear supplies group and nuclear supplies are two different things. And two different things because we have anyway got exemption as far as nuclear supplies fuel supplies go. So it is really irrelevant why India suddenly started making these noises is very difficult to explain except perhaps somebody has told somebody let us use this opportunity to extract whatever we can. Before I think wiser councils or saner councils prevailed saying look here is an opportunity for India not to be the laggard on climate issues as it is always done. But for once be among those who are leading the charge. Now last question on this is that India has said it has signed it with certain conditions. But the Paris Agreement does not allow any conditional signing. You can at the most give an interpretation of what your signing means. That is all that this is an interpretation I read the Paris Agreement. So this whole argument India signed with condition is a bogus. Completely bogus argument. There are no conditions once you have submitted the INDCs then you can say a lot of you can use English in what you have said but what the convention is interested in are the headline numbers that you have. In fact even all the details given in the nationally determined contributions are more for your own domestic sake the kind of things that you said what kind of power mix do you adopt what kind of public transport do you do going forward how much of rail and road do you. These are internal discussions how you reach the figure the headline numbers that you have put forward or what the convention is interested in and there are no conditionalities attached to that. In fact as I said you can only give an interpretive statement that is about the only thing that you can do. This is my understanding of what I am saying but really nothing beyond that. Ragu good to discuss this with you hope that we will discuss these issues and other issues with you further. Thank you very much. This is all the time we have for NewsClick today. Please keep watching NewsClick, Rail News and subscribe to our channels and our websites. Thank you very much for watching NewsClick.


Good to see you. Good to see you. Let me introduce my family. This is Will. Hi, Will. How are you? Good to see you. Hi, my name is Limby. Hello. Thank you for coming. I'm daughter Kay. Hi Kay. Nice to see you. My parents, Mr. Mrs. Carter. Hello, Dad. Introduce her. Hello. Nice to see you. Nice to see you. All right, Will. I think maybe we should all gather here for a little something that's going to happen right now. This is certified that the Secretary of Defense has awarded the Defense Superior Service Medal to Major Thomas L. Carter, United States Air Force, for exceptionally meritorious service for the Armed Forces of the United States with the citation to read as follows. Major Thomas L. Carter, United States Air Force distinguished himself by exceptionally superior service as the Air Force State to the President of the United States from July 1984 to August 1986. Major Carter has displayed superior leadership, exemplary foresight and tireless effort, which were a permanent importance to the President and the nation. In this highly visible position, he routinely planned and coordinated numerous events of national and international significance. His role as the emergency action officer for the President's travel was accomplished with expertise and professionalism. Major Carter served as a White House agent responsible for supervising the use of Department of Defense resources, supporting the Commander-in-Chief's travel throughout the world. His performance as the military coordinator for the Presidential trips to Canada and Spain in 1985 were particularly noteworthy and contributed measurably to the office of the President and to the effectiveness of the White House military organization. The distinctive accomplishments of Major Carter reflect great credit upon himself, United States Air Force and the Department of Defense. Well, congratulations, and thank you and good luck. Thank you very much, sir. Appreciate it. We've got a good family. John, would you like to see one? Yes. Well, I think we should. Come on, Katie. Thank you. Family section. Very good. Well, thank you. Thank you for all that you've done and over a period of time. Sometimes you're going to put on a civilian clothes and be in the way of company. Oh, yes. Thank you, sir.  And you may be reading a book and have to put it down to be a book. You also... Thank you, sir. And maybe you could use a key ring or a flexor seal. Thank you. And there are two other people here that can share a jar and grave with a seal along with jelly beans. My. Oh. And in case you're tempted to try and open it before you get home with someone might not be right, here's a sample for each of your 14 minutes. Mr. President. It was. Major Carver has assumed a position as Secretary Gold's senior defensive officer. That's what I understand. We're going to do our best to facilitate your defensive gins up there as much as we can. Senator is solidly behind you all the way. Thank you. Good enough. Let's do it again. Thank you. Yes, sir. It's been a pleasure. Yes, sir. Thank you, Mr. President. Thank you. Okay. Thank you. Okay. Can you say thank you? Say goodbye, Mr. President. Thank you. Yes, sir. It was a pleasure. Goodbye. Mr. President. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. You bet. Okay. Thanks again, sir. Okay. Call us now or anytime. All right. We'll see you. Thanks, Jim. Goodbye. Have a good one. Good to see you. Thank you. I'm very glad to meet you. Well, listen, I'm glad to meet you. And I'm glad to show you thank you for all that you have done for our country. I'd do it again any time. Especially in you. I know you're busy. I thank you for this time. Well, listen.  All right. Thank you so much. No, thank you. Thank you. God bless. You're the best. You're the best. Thank you, sir. You know, Mr. President, I think that Dave is the only person in the country that talked to more young people last year than you did. You know what I mean? That's wonderful. I have a page of speaking to about a quarter of me kids here in public schools. Hey, that's professor. And I walk in. I dress when I use to say, hi, I'm Dave Fever. I have pimples. You have scars. They don't know the difference. Good day, sir. Thank you. I'm so honored to meet you. Thank you. Thank you so much. Well, you deserve a word and a lot more. I certainly appreciate all you do in place. All right. Thank you. Sure. Yes, as Pat probably told you, I'm working on a new book, The Guardian. Primarily your defense and foreign policy. And trying, we hope to build public support, particularly for the FBI. So I want to ask a couple of questions primarily on that. Tell me, first of all, how did you happen to decide upon the FBI? Who gave you the first idea on it? What happened? I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. Decided upon the FBI. Who gave you the first idea on it? Well, now, the funny thing was it was the other way around. I don't know. And having some meetings, a number of meetings on this situation, I have never been comfortable with the idea that the only defense that we could have in this very dangerous world was the threat of blowing the other fellow up if he tried to blow us up first. And so one day, I'm meeting in the cabinet room with one of the chiefs of staff. I have always been of the mind that there has never been an offensive weapon, and that is that someone didn't come along with a defense against it, except with nuclear weapons. And then the only thing we could think of was the threat of the mutual assured destruction program. So I asked them, citing this fact of every weapon having the biggest defense against it, so I asked them if they believe that there could be a defensive system developed that could really make these weapons obsolete. And almost unanimously, well, it was unanimous. They said yes, they felt that could be done. So you told them to go right to work with it? I said yes. Let's start and see if we can find this. That's how it came into being. Of course, it was an opponent of the idea that launched the title of Star Wars, and they thought that this was supposed to deprecate the whole idea. But it's now the research is going on. There have been several breakthroughs, and there's great optimism among the people working on it. Such assistance can be developed. I know you said several times that you will not show you away to the FBI on the 3rd or any kind of confessional missile. No, as a matter of fact, I think that the great purpose of FBI can be to make itself in reality unneeded. In other words, that if this does come true and we have the research reveals that we have such a system that can destroy the incoming missiles, that this can make those nuclear missiles obsolete and can then be the greatest help in getting agreements to eliminate nuclear weapons worldwide. Do you think that before your term is on that you could actually destroy a small part of this that has been advocated as a point? No, I don't think so. But what I think we can do is work toward an agreement. A treaty that could supersede some of the existing treaties to the effect that if and when research develops that there is a system then to explore the idea rather than to try and deploy it while you still had offensive weapons which would seem to the world that we were then trying to develop a first strike case that we would instead say to the world, now, let's share in this on the basis of all of us doing away with our offensive weapons. Have you made that in effect an offer to Gabbach out? I've talked about that with him in Geneva and you know there's always mistrust and he wasn't prepared to believe that I really meant that. Well, he of course is giving the same line that all we wanted for is a shield behind which to launch the first strike. Yes, that's what he was thinking. That's why I'm looking forward to future meetings which maybe we can indicate to him that that isn't what we were. You've told him that time again and then you have to really improve it to him like that. Well, you know some of your best friends in the Senate aren't very good with including Senator Pete Wilson from California are advocating that you do deploy at least part of this as a first phase perhaps to defend perhaps our own missile sites. Is that still a possibility? I don't know. I think we have to be very careful and watch, remember that deployment isn't going to be like suddenly being handed a new gun and now you've got a new bullet trigger. And you wonder what would be the threat that would be generated if with all of us still having the nuclear weapons who started to deploy knowing that it was going to take a considerable period of time to get this in place and would someone then be tempted to say well we better get them while we can before that is in place. And is the danger it might stimulate a strike? Yes. Although, boy. This is something that's serious to think about. You certainly are going here not only with research but actual testing aren't you? We think that that has to be done but I would think then that we should invite the world to see it. And so it's a particular disease. Yes. And you think according to your interpretation that this would be permitted on the ABM tree, you wouldn't have the testing? I don't know whether final or any extensive testing is permitted under that treaty but I do think that we're safe in going forward. We're within the treaty in going forward with the research and then the knowledge that we either have or do not have such a system. And you were really, I know in the meeting today with several members of Congress heard them to restore some of the cuts that would be made in FDR and other defense items. I hope they will restore those put back in you mean the money. Yes. And it depends on whether they yes because actually the things that they wanted to do with that typical attitude among so many up there that the only source of money when needed is taken away from defense. Actually what they would do if they had their way with the reductions is really send back the research that we're doing now at a very sensitive moment and considerably to the period of time it would take to. Well that's the problem and you stretch it out and you delay it so you want a minimum I guess three billion at least. Yes. Or you can get it. Are you encouraged by the the search advances made in the laser for example? I think there have been a number of breakthroughs that as I say people have worked in this very optimistic and I'm sharing that optimism now on the basis of what we know. But you do still have a lot of opposition I know apparently in Congress from people who were afraid that this would break up the whole arms control. Yes and I wonder how they reason and what they think a number of those same people if you look back over their time in this particular incident are those that believe that appeasement is the way to go. Well they tried that and we wound up not the whole rhythm of the monopoly on nuclear weapons but far back in second place. No that's true when we relied on them just to be nice and build up a certain point they went on to be honest. Well you certainly have tried to be a Soviet Deer student like they understand you don't aim to be able to be on for a first strike. You're confident of another summit maybe you can explain those ideas a little better. I think we can. I think that we have returned to a man now. You have to. No one's noticed very much. This is the first Russian leader in all these years that went all the way back to 1946 in attempts to get arms control agreements and so forth. This is the first one that has ever volunteered to reduce the number of weapons they already have. And you're going to hold and do that opera often. Yeah. Because you know up until now you take all these treaties they are all based on limiting how fast you increase. Well I said several years ago when I announced my opposition to a couple of the treaties I said isn't it time to sit down and start talking about a treaty that reduces the number of weapons. And this is the way I think to go and this is the first man that has made that same kind of a suggestion.  I think we'd just love to stay and talk all night. No other way to play it is. Well you gave me some much help in writing the other book. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. We have time to read back some of the things you said there. It's been a great pleasure to see you. I'll take it back to you. Thank you very much. Thank you.


But I do I did notice that in a lot of times in the winter when I'm getting ready to go the fertility the weather's bad And I have to finish a three-year-old in here They're pretty sharp when they come come out of here long as I don't overdo it and don't don't put too much pressure on on making sure That they keep that cow Just let them let them think think through it make a few moves and then and then get another cow That's one thing here is we have unlimited supply cattle So so if it's getting tough we can just let some more cows in these cattle are fresh So it's going to probably go pretty fast. I like to just kind of drive up to this wall and Let the wall be my turn back Now I'm just gonna ease her up to this cow until it takes a hold of her She is super cowy. So my main thing on her is keeping her patient And holding on these ends I'm just gonna let her sit on the ends as much as I can just to stay calm


Hello everyone, Suresh Karamella here. The reason I've always loved my job as a professor is the energy I get from the hustle and bustle of campus, the rhythm of campus, of young, inquiring minds of my faculty colleagues committed to discovery and scholarship and our dedicated staff who make the university what it is. Over the last 30 years of my academic life, summer breaks have always been a welcome time to recharge, to catch up with research and other projects I've put off. But when the fall comes and all the students have crowded back on campus, that's when I'm reminded of what was missing in those summers and what the core of a university is. As I look out on our beloved campus today, I know that's what we all are missing right now. It's a shame that the coronavirus has deprived us of just what the university means. Community, contact, camaraderie. I woke up this morning to a reading on NPR from Minnesota poet Laura Kelly Finucci that went, When this is over, may we never again take for granted a handshake with a stranger and on it went. As a parent with two kids back from college, I have some sense of what this forced isolation is doing. I know some of you have more challenging circumstances and that learning under all this stress is not easy. At your university, we're managing the pandemic with the best information available at the time. We're consulting our doctors, our public health specialists, we're working closely with the Vermont Department of Health as we make decisions. As you know, we have limited on-campus living to only those students who have a demonstrated need to be here. We've been offering different kinds of technology support in terms of laptops and broadband access, emergency funds to students who need it due to unexpected travel and such. Our faculty are working in overdrive to provide the best education possible under these trying circumstances that came without warning or any preparation time. Our staff are doing what they do best, supporting the university in the myriad ways in which they underpin all aspects of our operation and they're doing so with dedication and a positive approach. And proving the strength and connection of the Catamount family, our friends and alumni are pitching in to support our dedicated pandemic fund. We're partnering with the state in providing medical resources and public health guidance. You wouldn't recognize Patrick Jim today as it has been transformed into a surge space for our hospital should the medical situation call for it. Amid the gloom, we're contributing important solutions that only we as a university can. Our doctors are working with the state to increase capacity for coronavirus testing. Faculty from several disciplines are mapping the spread of the virus so that we can stem it better. Our engineers are making simple 3D printed face masks and designing an inexpensive ventilator. This can do spirit of our community and the selfless sacrifice of our frontline medical professionals and volunteers is what we all know defines our core. And looking forward to happier times and there will be happier times coming. Our admissions folks are providing the best virtual experiences possible for our admitted students who cannot currently visit campus. As we all work diligently and under less than ideal conditions, let us look forward to when we can experience again the joy of a hug or a handshake. When we can crowd our classrooms, our cafeterias, our libraries again and for the new students who will join us for the first time this fall, I promise you you're in for a treat. You all have my sincere best wishes and gratitude. Please say safe, strong and healthy and support each other the best you can. Thank you.


You're welcome back. You're still watching Plus Politics on Plus TV Africa. The presidency has chided the main opposition People's Democratic Party, PDP, over its comment on the economic situation in the country accusing the party of plotting to destabilize Nigeria. The presidency also said that Nigerians are not ready for another PDP misrule, not now, and perhaps not for a long time to come. The presidency was reacting to the statement issued by the People's Democratic Party through its National Publicity Secretary, Debo, or Logung Nagba, where it accused the president, Mohamed Abu Hari, and it's his all-progressive Congress of abdicating its duties amid hardship being passed through by Nigerians. Joining us to discuss this, we have two gentlemen, Dimeji Fabi'i, a member of the People's Democratic Party, who has been accused of plotting to destabilize Nigeria. And we ask him about that. And Shagun Shopiton, he is a political and his gentleman. Welcome to Plus TV Politics. Thank you very much. I'm happy to be here. All right. Let's tell you, Dimeji, what is the People's Democratic Party saying about the situation of things in the country? Because we read somewhere some days ago that they were talking about a violent uprising similar to Ansar's. Thank you very much. PDP is just playing his role as an opposition, and they're just saying it as it is. It's no more news. The situation, the country has presently found itself under the leadership of the APC. So PDP is only calling the attention of Nigerians to it, which doesn't necessarily means that they are calling for uprising or anything. All over the world, even at Trans-Democracies, the opposition parties, as it were, will look at issues, look at the conversation in the country, and then make a statement as a kind of warning to the government to up their game and rise in the defense and in the favor of the sustainable country. For APC to have said that PDP is trying to destabilize Nigeria, it's not only uncharitable, it's equally very, very ridiculous. Nigerians are wise enough to know what the situation in the country is. Is it in the area of security, is it economy? Very recently the APC had a problem not only to itself, but to the generality of Nigerians. So as far as I know, the PDP is only saying it as it is. They're just calling the attention of Nigerians and the government in power to please do something about the plight of Nigerians. This is not a better deal, this is not a good time for the citizens of this country under the leadership of the APC at all. Look at our debt profile for instance. At the end of 2021, debt profile has been to about 39.9 trillion. Now when we look at the budget for 2022, there's this deficit of about 6.7. It means that at the end of this year, debt profile would have been to about 45 trillion. That's not adding up, where do we take that? It means that the next president is coming to take over the leadership of this country who have a lot of work to do. He must bring in serious ingenuity to be able to get Nigeria back on track and help Nigerians citizens to feel the benefit of the good governance. So that's what PDP is trying to say. PDP shares in the pains of Nigeria.  Look at aviation fuel for instance. Look at a petroleum pump price to about between 400 to 500 naira in some places. Look at aviation fuel, about 700 naira per liter. This is unacceptable and this is really what PDP is talking about. We shouldn't deceive ourselves. This government of APC has failed Nigerians. They even failed themselves too. So rising it and defending what is not defendable is most unfortunate and beyond the part of the APC. PDP is only saying it as it is and being on the side of Nigeria as they've always been. That's why we are telling them that Nigerians, look, you need a better deal. This guy, you have tested them. You have tested two wives in the 16-year rule of PDP. We knew what the records are there. It may not be perfect, but it's not as small as what we're facing under the leadership of in-depth government of APC. So my brother, Nigerians are better and nobody needs to spoil them into crisis or agitation. They know what to do. Okay, fantastic. Shagu Shopitong, what's your take on what he, the major and indeed the PDP are saying about the situation of things and violent uprising if things don't change? Well, so I think the first thing that we must note, especially those of us that are not necessarily partisan is that there's a lot of politicking going on and we're approaching elections. So you get a lot of this going forward over the next 12 months or maybe 10 months or thereabouts. In fact, yeah, 12 months until the elections themselves happen. We're going to get a lot of back and forth between these two brothers. And I think, and I call them brothers because it's very, very important for Nigerians to note that there really isn't much of a difference between these two parties. I mean, with all due apologies to my brother and my co-panelists, there really isn't much of a difference. The PDP and the APC are people by the same characters who have run this country down. Even if you want to be charitable and start from this democracy from 1999, it's the same characters. They just swap parties, they swap platforms as it suits their personal interests at that moment. And then if you want to go beyond 1999, it's still the same characters. You know what I mean? It's ridiculous. So, yes, I agree with a lot of the stuff that the PDP have said. Much of it is rooted in fact. It's a fact that the Nigerian economy is in dire straits when dire waters exchange rates wise, inflation wise. Just name it, interest rates, the productive sector manufacturing. Let's not forget the crisis that we're experiencing now with petroleum products and all that. We know that there is a global incident that is pouring or that is behind that. But look beyond that. I mean the Nigerian economy is not in good shape. Nigerians are not in good shape. You don't need to be reminded how the middle class, anybody that can afford an immigration plan now is living the country in droves. It's terrible, right? And that obviously is driven by the fact that the system is simply not working for the people they should be working for. The only people that are still staying behind are the people that can't afford to live. So yes what the PDP is saying is not too far from the truth but my problem is what their motive is. The motive is their motive to get the country to work. Is their motive to get the APC to do better or is their motive to create the impression that suits their own agenda so that they can also get back into power and continue the sham. What we have as governance in Nigeria right now is a sham and it wasn't better under the PDP before this government came and it's not any better now in spite of all the promises that this government made that gave so many people so much hope. It's been such a huge disappointment for those that vested so much hope in the APC but I think what has become very clear and very obvious to those that choose to be deliberately independent of thought is that there's no difference between these two parties so I call them APDPC. Fantastic. Because it's not the same group of people. Dimajia are you there? Okay he's there. Dimajia you've listened to your brother or your counterpart Chopiton he's simply saying in other words that the PDP's cry is simply a case of a kettle calling pot black. What do you say to this? Well that's not true as far as I am concerned and I know as far as some Nigerians are concerned. During PDP there were appreciable achievements that that government of PDP made and I'm here to see those appreciable achievements of this current government and I can tell you how much was Zola to Inera during PDP time, how much was a bag of rice, how much was a petroleum pump price at that time or was the foreign director at that time.  That's exactly what I'm telling you that we're not the same it's not the same even here we have some actors who move from one party to the other but the programs of both governments are not the same how many people were being killed on daily basis during PDP time did we see where people were being slaughtered on daily basis as we are seeing now what was the level of insecurity during the PDP time and now we can continue on like that even the corruption profile let's balance them within the good government so the truth of the matter is that I don't believe that you're saying you talked about corruption profile Dimajia Fabi and you were saying we should balance the corruption profile of the PDP side by side with the corruption profile of the APC so who is more corrupt? APC is more corrupt that many people were tried under APC do you know what I mean? Yes please go on let's do this a senate president of this country was almost sent to jail for corruption I mean under PDP how many high ranking government officials of APC have gone to jail how many? so let us be honest with ourselves what PDP is simply saying is that look Nigerians you're not getting a better deal on that scope okay so yeah are you saying that the PDP in the 16 years that it ruled Nigeria was not as corrupt as APC so is it now we are corrupt but we are not as corrupt as demo is that what you're saying? Corruption leaves today corruption leaves in the presidency leaves in the villa we know Nigerians know was it not there under the people's democratic party because we have cases to show I mean I'm sure if you open your case for a party's case file you would see that it's full should we go? should we start? like I told you bring it up do you understand? should we talk about Dasuki gate should we talk about the Desihani case should I go on so I mean are you saying that the PDP is corrupt but not as corrupt as the APC I ask you again I am just telling you that the corruption under APC is quite monumental and they are there for people for Desihani people want to know so for me not to dwell too much on that let me tell you this Nigeria now everybody knows are the precipices and we go to this point because we don't have a leadership that is ready to frontally address issues PDP raises the issue of N-SARS as if we properly address where Nigeria youths were maimed killed and all that the rest is history today this is not what we are talking about what did the people's democratic party do in its time to end police brutality can you tell us please in 16 years should I give you the cases of police brutality before 2015 you want me to give that to you my brother PDP has always been it's not only Nigeria what did the PDP do in its 16 years to end police brutality PDP did quite well by trying some police officers who were engaging because I cannot hear be telling you the details of it but we know but how many compared to what is happening the brutality under the APC government this is the reality the facts are there you are a journalist don't get your facts and bring it up alright let's go to Shegun Chopiton do you think that the people's democratic party has a moral right to refer to the N-SARS protests and talk about police brutality and use that as a yardstick to further its own it's a political point what they are trying to say that's what I am talking about well you know I am a believer in the freedom of speech freedom of expression is guaranteed for everybody and you know under normal circumstances one would have been happy to have another voice an opposition voice that is robust, vibrant and articulate and the PDP has tried to varying degrees of success to provide that voice in the past some people would argue that let's focus on the message and leave the messenger for a second so if we look at that then I would say oh well maybe they don't have a moral right because they were no better for these brutality issues that we are talking about just like you rightly said it didn't start last year it didn't start with N-SARS it's been with us for a long time so again let's start from 1999 so what measures did the PDP government put in place to improve the very obvious you know the issues of the police are obvious if you underpay a man you are paying him such an amount that is inadequate to take care of his basic basic needs and then you give him a gun it is an inevitability that he will use that gun to further his own personal interest it's just logic it's human interest and human nature so what did the PDP do in its 16 years in power at the federal level remember that the police is a federal agency directly controlled by the presidency and by the federal government so what did the PDP do in those 16 years to get the police to be better equipped to be better funded to be better paid to be better personneled with better quality human beings educated people that think well to be better exposed to modern policing techniques what did they do we all know the answer nothing right so if you want to talk about the moral rights of the PDP they don't have it but that's not to say that you know they don't they can't speak to the issues that are obvious and confronting us as a country today having said that I would like to say and this is more to Nigerians to anybody else that if come 2023 right it's very very very likely that it will be one of these two parties that will produce your next president and hopefully the national assemblies and the government houses across the states and the state passes of assembly and on the strength of the evidence of the last 20 23 years nothing is going to change I think we need to get this message and get it loud nothing is going to change in 2023 regardless whether it's a TICU whether it's TINUU whether it's APC whether it's PDP nothing is going to change if these guys are the ones that imagine 2023 so what do we need to do as Nigerians we have to come to get that to rally and mobilize the what madam obvious a question you called the government voted this we have a population of about 50 million voters that never participate and I think they're even more than that that don't participate in the voting the electoral process because they don't believe in it they believe that it's all rigged and it's all a waste of time I am saying to Nigerians that we've got to wake up and realize smell the coffee and realize that this guys that have been driving this boat or this ship or this car have been driving us in the wrong direction consistently for the last 23 years and it's not going to change so can we find a way to get an alternative platform to get alternative people for goodness sake we've got quality minds quality minds buying and sorry coffee buying and offering themselves across the various government platforms can we find a way to get them into office and kick these guys out kick out the APC took out the PDP we have to go a final word from you Dimeji Fabi I would have loved to ask you maybe Nigerians should come out and protest against the government what should they do against state governments including PDP states who are owing humongous amounts in debts you know I don't have time to go into that so final word from you well thank you very much I think Nigerians deserve a better deal and for them to get that PDP has made mistakes and they have realized those mistakes another chance for PDP will give Nigeria what the values desire I'm so sure about that Nigeria is a unified country because the country is in power shape and that's what people like Atee Kudai the man said cannot do it with his experience with his party thank you very much we're out of time Dimeji Fabi is a member of the People's Democratic Party Shaggy Shopeito is a political and he's a gentleman I'm sorry because of time we have to pull the plugs but I want to thank you very much for giving us a very robust conversation thank you Dimeji and Shaggy thanks for having me thank you alright so plus politics before we say goodbye let's quickly run you through our Voxpop segment of course we round up today's show with Nigerians telling us their thoughts as regards to People's Democratic Party and their ability to rule I'm Kofi Battels plus politics return tomorrow good night by the grace of God this country is for Nigeria and I believe anybody saying he will develop this country it's a verbal talk personally my opinion is that God is the only one that can put somebody that would make this country to be a promises have been made several times and I believe where we don't have anybody to say actually this is the person that will make the that will be the God sent or let's give any person a tryer because with a tryer it may even work out no if I remember that it's not all about the party it's all about a person and his own personality so unlike me I don't vote party but I vote People's personality so whosoever that wants to come in maybe as a PDP and if he believes that will not fail Nigerians he can come in there's no problem about that and what the masses need is for them to give us a good result we've given APC 80 years and for me as a youth there is nothing tangible that we've done so let's try PDP or if possible let's try any other party who can actually spring up with someone new let's try up new things for me personally I would say let's try up new things because we are tired of this old man we've been seeing since 1999 so let's try up new guys to me I believe in God choosing president for us it is only who God choose that can develop this country not ask anything to do whether PDP or APC even in another party let the person be God choosing candidate I think that is the best thing for us in this country


All right, it works. Yeah All right. Good afternoon everyone My name is Artem. I'm sales lead attending for soft and This is Anatoli. He's the CEO of our company where? came here from Ukraine to Feel the power of Canadian Drupal community because we have some clients here and we wanted to share some experience that we faced during our cooperation with the companies based in North America Maybe to hear some ideas from your sides how to improve all these processes and To deploy an external production team Okay, so as I've done said we came here from Ukraine and we are proud to represent Drupal Ukraine community It's actually we have an organization Published on Drupal org and there are 222 people on Drupal org already who actually has not only the company where they're working But also Drupal Ukraine community and they are contributing the support in different projects and contributing using credits For Ukraine the Drupal Ukraine community. So it's actually as you see the digits. It's 124 projects supported. That's a lot and only for three latest months there are 185 issues fixed by Drupal Ukraine community developers and this is actually low season It's summer sometimes. So it's usually it's much more and if you open all the Commits, it's around 12 pages So of listings with all the commits from Drupal Ukraine community and this is like, I don't know It's around three or four years. So it just was launched on the Drupal org. So it's actually rising and we have We also were part of organization team of Drupal Camp Kiev It's a regular event and that was actually our anniversary so we have we had 10th Drupal Camp Kiev and We had 390 attendees at this camp The majority from Ukraine but still some people from different countries and we also had some representatives from canada and there was a keynote from From cto of imagix from encore. So that we are really pleased to to meet our canadian partners as well Yes, so we try to make our ukrainian Drupal community international and some of the session We had an english majority in ukraine and russian, but i performed english If to talk about any for ourselves, so who we are we are Drupal focused agency, obviously we're based fully in ukraine We have 60 plus teammates and our main approach is not to work with the end clients But we prefer to help Drupal agencies primarily from western europe or north america to handle All the clients requests all the new clients requests With our help if they struggle with the lack of internal capacity and recently We've launched Internship internally where we hired like brand new people who has some basic understanding of php and we learned them Drupal practices and probably we believe that in six months we can allocate to them Like commercial project and they'll become junior Drupal developers. So we have primarily Meet and senior Drupal developers out of These 60 teammates we have 30 Drupal developers. So part of them are seniors majority of meets and we have some junior Drupal developers right okay, so We also wanted to ask You what are the challenges for agencies for developers? When the agency rely only on internal workforce, like do you have any ideas? Have you tried to? Do you have any issues or challenges working with only internal resources? Just rise again Okay, so for me i'm from the government of canada So hiring like a full-time government worker is like a very bureaucratic process And because it's a thorough government, most people need to speak english and french And so you kind of limit your development pool We do a lot of Okay, thanks Yes, what's uh, yeah, well if we get a client request for a project that we needed to start really quickly We don't know why it's not being uh the start of Drupal Any any other sorts Okay, uh, so yes, you are definitely right. So one of the challenges Capacity when you actually need to start new project Right now or in in one week and the customer is really relying on you that you you will start right away And all your developers already Engaged in project and you need somebody to join the team and it's actually the long process to hire And another so it's actually and when you try to hire a developer in your city that there is very limited the talent pool and And so lots of the majority of developers are already working somewhere and to To start all this process of hiring this is actually it takes a really long time and For some customers because it's also A challenge because Higher full-time developer and you know, you are not sure about Will will be will there be enough work to continue after the project when the project will be deployed Like hiring for just one project and then firing people. It's not a good way to to have to have business and also all this all the taxes and all the Additional spending things like you need to to buy a laptop you need to to buy Some furniture to and you need a new office if you if you already not have any any other space So this is the most common challenges that agencies face when they rely only on internal workforce Yeah, absolutely and Of course most of the businesses they want to grow their internal power But there are some cases when you have urgent requests as you said from the client and it's so harmful for the business to To lose this client and there are some options how you can support your business growth with external development resources and what are the key constraints when Especially business owners they consider The option of external help. First of all, it's the level of communication. We've heard a lot from Our clients our brand new clients that their previous experience working with the development partners They're pretty poor because they were not at the same page and communication level was really poor Second option is quality. I think that when you cooperate with developers from eastern europe Quality goes by default and we have a lot of ukrainian developers that work in Canadian Drupal agencies in us based Drupal agencies and most of the feedback from their teammates that the quality is quite great and if to talk about processes in the companies that The company that's not the part of your business It's different processes and you it it It should take some time to have the match between the processes and to synchronize And to synchronize all the processes make it the same as you have internally if to talk about security All the clients they're really They really care about the safeguard of of the data that they share with with the vendors and From our side, we should guarantee that the risk for this aspect would be minimized Okay, and there are options when you decide like you you need to hire somebody outside of your company for this specific project for for some specific time of Some specific time there are options.  There are great tools great platforms where you can find freelancer and you also know some developers in your in your city or Somebody you met on some Drupal events and So this is an option to hire a freelancer and another option is to actually have a contract with some agency who can help you with your capacity And what are the what are the Issues and what are the challenges when you decide between freelancers and agency? First of all is responsibility The main concerns that we heard from our partners that the they try to work with some freelancers and Somewhere in between of the project that this freelancer is gone and this is the the Most important issues that you rely on on somebody and if this person actually gone you you need to start all the process again to check To interview to check the quality of this specific person and this is actually and Could be really harmful for your organization because you already have the contract with your customer You need to deliver the projects in time when you When you start a communication with agency the responsibility for Not to be in loss is a little bit higher because you actually have the contract with organization with And and the organization actually has More resources and if somebody gone it could be whatever reason The person who might change the plans and might go to work with jumlah or maybe he wants to switch to larwell Or he just fell in and the agency always has somebody to as a backup to help So this is really Much more flexible and in terms of risks This is again about not being lost, but also when you need When you understand that you need more more people To to join your team like the customer Asked us that we need to deploy the project One months earlier and you need somebody to to help you to fit this new deadline. This is Sometimes you can just rely on the contract, but sometimes it's good to have somebody who can Join your team Right like on the next week and help you to to bring this in life. So There are always in the pros and cons in When you go to with one direction or another so this is Something you need to take in mind And if to talk about the small triple agencies when I mean small it's starting from one man shop up to 10 people It's always an issue with internal resources and brand new clients. It's so crucial for your company prosperity and what are the main issues that business owners of small companies faces with first of all These founders they're in charge of everything and they should handle all the processes because they don't have other people to managers I mean Those people they should be in charge of project management. They even develop some some of these projects and they should Do some sales efforts to make this company grow, right? And if to talk about new business opportunities when when those owners they Struggle with these internal activities. They just don't have enough time to Push a lot of efforts and bring new clients to their company If to talk about operations consultancy if you have a small business, you don't have enough experience to figure out what what internal processes should be and When you ask another agency that is much Much bigger for the help These agencies they can help you to build these processes and to share their experience In internal iteration between different departments of the company Okay, and there are always some choices for Different approach of work. You can rely on your partner on your external development team as You can share the full project with all the activities starting from design and finishing with deployment or you can actually Get some workforce like developers who actually understand to what exactly You need for this project and they have enough skill set to to work with you and can they can handle your operations This is also an option. So if we compare a fixed price model with dedicated teams, there are also pros and cons and when we talk about risks and The majority of risks when you go with fixed price is on vendor side and When you Have a dedicated model the risk are being share it with a customer and risk and control this is always on This is more on on your side and you can actually control the velocity of the team you can control the direction of the way the project is going and But this is also Depend on what the project is if if you have fixed scope and you have a really Small amount of time to work on this project and you need somebody to help this project being done It's just not really complex Not the not the project or from your key customers. You can just share this project to somebody to make it To make it done and when you have some flexible scope of work and you work In a agile way with your customer and you also need this flexibility in terms of budget scope and time and team So you can actually rely on Dedicated team model sometimes there is another model as time and materials when you just pay only for hours spent and this is Also works pretty really good and you have your management stuff. You have your quality assurance and you have your processes in place and this is really nice model and actually in the long run this Dedicated team could be as a part of your organization, but it's just sitting in another office and As I mentioned the client involvement is also different for a fixed price model It's actually only acceptance period when you have The complete project and you accept it if it is Good or if something needs to be finished and if you Dedicated team your client the moment your involvement is The most of you you in the whole process And change change requirements. This is always Being placed in every project if you have any change requests from the customer There is always negotiation process if With fixed price model and it's much more flexible if you work in a dedicated team model Yeah, just wanted to add to the previous slide when you start cooperation with brand new development partner And and you decide to share the full project the level of risk that You might have is really high and In most cases I hear from potential clients that They have internal policy not to share the project at the same time You can just hire developers from other agencies and leave all the internal processes all the Drupal approach All the ways on your side And in this case you just have addition to your internal capacity and Those tasks those issues they will be done Based on your internal flow And actually we had in our title at the very beginning Mentioned about case study and we wanted to share some Some experience that we had not so far with one of our California based clients Not to tell it on the words but to give you some examples at the same time I think that you're aware that in our business most of our projects we have under a day That's why we don't have like the actual pictures of the website or something but we're More than happy to share some internal technical and business Insights that we had during this project. So as I mentioned this client based in california And the industry that they have it's in beauty in cosmetics And this is just e-commerce startup Yes, they have we met them actually while on Drupal con Nashville this spring and They come they come to they went to To find the partner who can actually help them with the development and They already have a poor experience with working with other development partner from From asia. I believe the previous platform was based in junna. Yes, sometimes it's happened and That when then the customer decided to find somebody who can actually Who is Who can be in charge of all the technical process and he found the local CTO who is in charge of development and we have enough luck that this This particular person is a Drupal developer and that's why he actually Decided to switch the whole platform to Drupal and then they went to Drupal con to find a partner to work with and And as as it always happened in business They had a really strict deadline because they need to rewrite the whole platform To a new one and they have a lot of functionality in mind to to be deployed and that's why And they actually the it is for working business. That's why they their customers were waiting for some functionality to to work with that this is actually like a network of different suppliers of Of the cosmetics and they this is actually the portal who is who counts the money and That is that was a huge challenge They need to find some reliable partner who is experienced enough not only perform the development but also think about the money and This the security level That is related to this matter Yeah, and uh, ultimately they chose Our company and why we think they chose first of all they had strong requirements to choose Drupal Drupal focused company Drupal experts and We ensured that based on the interviews that these clients had with our Drupal developers They also wanted this provider to be able to scale the internal team And initially we started with one developer and after that during the sprints we added more and more developers and They also required not only the development mindset, but also solution orientation and business That's why we also attract not only developers, but account managers project coordinators who communicate directly with the client and listen to the business goals of this startup and They try to pre-frice all these business goals To to the development solutions from our side. So ultimately our developers they realize all these business opportunities to the features to the development aspects and bring it to life What is the solution the solution that we offer as we already mentioned we offer them to hire a dedicated team and The the first process was interviewing the developers that fit the most so we had in place we Team onboarding smooth to the team onboarding process when we started with first developer then in two weeks They wanted to get another developer to join to to make a velocity higher and the project monetization best Based on the quick launch was Really important for them because they wanted to not not to make it like perfectly this as it is startups They wanted to launch it in the most efficient way So they actually can get monetization processes up and running and the most important was that we actually allows the customer to To meet their business goals because they wanted they had such a big process of challenges and problems with technology and they think about a lot of about the technology, but not about the business You have to talk about the current status Do you remember that we've started on louis one developer at this time we have five full-time developers Additionally, we have project manager and tester So we have some scope of work that was previously released. That's why we provide maintenance services and at the same time We receive on the regular basis brand new requirements So we realize them and apply to the live website And we also experience the business growth So potentially we will have the extension of the Company and we also guaranteed the extension of the clients incoming to the To our clients business Yeah, and what are the perspectives that clients share already with us they they actually started to think about scalability of their business and they are Always wanted to go international. So this is actually u.s. based company and u.s. Market is pretty huge to handle but they already think about about South America about Europe and they actually now they have new New user stories and new functionalities that should be placed to work or to go to international market and that we always Take in mind that the development team is flexible. So yeah when the When the picks when the new functionality arise so we can add Another developer to to help the team and if they Is a There are some major feature already released that we can make the team smaller to handle the project maintenance and just to to work on ongoing tasks and Now a business owner There are actually two business owners and one of them was always involved in day-to-day operations and since thinking about How actually All the Calculations should be done and there there was a lot of calculations were Made in google spreadsheets and now they are As soon as they automated this process, they actually can think about the business development and And now they the client customers already shared that they expected to have An order from china with the production In six months, but they already made this order because all the all the goods were already sold out Yeah, and to sum up briefly let's mention that you become This customer if you are not a business owner And how it goes to tending for some for the very beginning you as a customer You'll want brand new project and after that you check internally That you don't that you cannot handle it inside the company And this is actually the place for us to help From the very beginning we'd like to receive from our clients request for proposal including all the information that you have from the initial request and uh After that we provide you the proposal which contains detailed estimation spreadsheet with all the budget and hours allocation for each specific feature timeline and budget for the project in total After that we usually sign basic documents Which contains of contracts SOW it's additional agreement for the specific project and NDA is for you to be secured for the copyrights After that we start the development phase itself and all the communication goes between The client and either project manager or developer directly After that not after that during all the processes our clients even if we cooperate on the fixed cost projects They are active or watcher They attend study schools on the regular basis and they are more than available to apply some adjustments during the development phase as well As soon as we deliver the project we also provide post-production support and maintenance Not only hosting services, but also adding of Some additional functionality to the project and After that after the repetition of this circle for several times. We believe that We we build The trust between our agencies and we become trusted development partners So the ultimate goal of our collaboration with Drupal agencies is to build trusted development partnership And not only in cases when you face the lack of internal resources, but on the regular basis Combining like internal growth of resources and usage of development partners grows your Guarantees the growth of your Drupal business Yeah, let me add to this slide as well. So actually You can rely on your partner on your external development partner Not only when you have all documentation In place when you have all the requirements and all the design of wireframes The best way is to involve the partner on the very beginning when you just have decision from the customer or in the process of negotiations when you Talk to the customer about the new project and there is a really Long path to To actually start the development before that you need to have a really good discovery phase to understand the needs of the Of the customer to build the wireframes to build the the user juniors and understand what exactly the projects should be This time a lot of migrations and a great Being in place and There is also a really good Uh Processes could be and efforts could be done on your external partner side So you can communicate more with your customer and the work could be done on the other side And to have some kind of conclusions, uh, the main ideas that we had for this session is it's You just never you you should have not to to close the door for any opportunities opportunities because the new projects That comes in from the customers from your inbound marketing. Uh, you can Sometimes deny this projects, but you never know what exactly this business Grow what exactly this request could be at the Final phase. So when you have new opportunities, you can talk to Other agencies and to collaborate. So success is possible only with collaboration This is the same as like you you work Only as a single person and you do all the process Yourself or you have some teammates and you this is the same as say you you have your internal resources in your Agency and collaboration with other with other people could could bring your business to the next level Uh, but the really important point is try carefully Don't put all all the x in one basket. Don't allow don't just trust from the first world you need to actually to try To try for us to make some trial period to to launch some small projects beforehand So if you actually expect that in the next Quarter you will have more projects you need to prepare beforehand to have some Test assignments and understand If this if this agency if these people are actually reliable if they deliver the results that they're saying about So try try carefully, but still Expect that collaboration can bring you More benefits Yeah, and this is pretty it in terms of the presentation I hope you guys enjoyed not only the decision makers the business owners Maybe for the developers it was also topical, especially if you work with Developers from other agencies outside of your company and you face those issues on the regular basis Maybe some of our thoughts they were interesting for you and you can apply it on your Daily basis workflow Please if you have any questions any topical information do not hesitate to contact us At this email and if you have some Current questions will be happy to answer Place we ask our partner to share the Knowledge base and the workflows that they already have in their company because like We need to understand the expectation in the first place And we also Need to use the tools that they already they already use like if they use jira and they use slack internally So they we need also the profiles for the development team to join this channel these teams and Get acquaintance with all the documentation with all the workflow that is already in them In this agency sometimes if the agency is small as we mentioned beforehand The some collaboration processes could not be managed yet Like because they don't didn't need this They just want the project and work with ftp sometimes this actually happened and we still fighting with one of them customer to bring get in place and because Working on the production environment via ftp. It's not the best way and Yes, so this is where we can help with Setting up some processes some continuous integration to be to have some auto deployments not to waste time for manual deployments and merging So yeah, so first of all we try to Get information from the customer and understand what is What is the tool set what is the processor is good for for them? And then we can consult What the best practices we have internally and what the best practices we have from the other customers and Yeah, we set up regular calls so it's actually And day-to-day meetings Discussing the project and also when we have some sprints Sprint sprint planning and also acceptance demos. So this is actually mostly it's going we are Google meets or google handouts or skype for business or just the regular skype So this is not a big problem. Sometimes Our customers expect to ask to go away to their office and to Collaborate the in face-to-face. This is also possible So but the online tools are pretty good enough to for this moment to to help all everything remotely and like for our It's before for our agency. We also have like remote first culture. So we don't We try not to stick our our team to the to the offices We actually have two offices in Harkin and Lusk and this is around 700 kilometers from between the cities So we actually have all these processes in place when we develop the whole project internally So yeah remote culture is pretty flexible Yeah, for this specific customer, we have a product owner on the customer side. So they actually have Three people from the core team. So there is a business owner There is a product owner who is talking about the features and accepting the features and the ideas of the project And there is still a cto who is actually taking care about the technology is The in is in the ways that they need and from our side, it is five If I do five full-time developers, we have a team lead who is managing our development team and talks primarily with product owner and cto and getting The decision about how how it should be how it should be done And we have project manager who helps to organize all the process the ticketing system and Deliverables to be done and we have a tester who who check everything if it is actually working as expected and it's Builders designed This is the structure of the team So my commission testing or manual testing? For this moment, it's only manual testing. So we have compatibility testing. We have functional testing and The optimization testing is like in the future release Yeah, this is The for this session is a bit confusing We talk more about the collaboration with end customer and this is not a regular practice for for us We primarily working with agencies. That's why the circle is The most common examples that we tend to have with all our customers because we came We start collaboration with some agency and if we Have a successful project And for the first project then we can Circle back and do more and more projects and set up more more teams and development So this is the key for us to make it not as a pass but as a circle Can you ask the questions? All right, then thanks a lot for your time here. It was really a pleasure to perform at Drupal morse It's our first experience here And you guys very welcome to ukraine and drupal events as well. Why not? Thanks a lot. Thanks