Hi everyone and welcome to the TimingResearch.com crowd forecast news episode number 298 for May 3rd, 2021. We are recording this at 1pm Eastern time. My name is David Cosmetter. I'm the creator of TimingResearch.com and today I have arranged for first-time guest Josh Leviton to join us. He's with Cybertrading University and works closely with Fausto Puglisi who's a regular on the show. So it's great to have him here. Always good to have new people on the show. And also the option professor is here to moderate. So I'm going to go ahead and turn over to him. Okay, great. Welcome everybody to this Monday. We're going to have a pretty big active Monday here and we've got a great guest here. Josh, just before we get started for people who are not familiar with yourself, a little background and also what's going on over at Cybertrading University. Absolutely. First and foremost, David, thank you so much for having me on your platform here today. I know that Fausto was supposed to present. He's brought some good backup in myself. So I look forward to this next hour. I've been alongside Fausto and Cybertrading University since 2014. I actually walked into Cybertrading University off an indeed job interview. I came in with zero stock market trading experience. So going into this TimingResearch event, I know how prestigious this platform is and how wonderful of a guest panel that you typically have on with the amount of experience they have. Don't let that fool you because for the last six and a half years, I've been doing this from Monday to Friday from market open and market close. And that's not necessarily the best starting point for anyone. But it's just to say that I grew into this position. I'm a one trick pony, not a jack of all trades. That's the way I like to label myself. I tend to follow the order flow just like Fausto does between using level three and level four. And with that, I certainly look forward to talking to you about the S&P coming up across this week. I know that we have a bunch of big earnings announcements still ahead of us. Yeah, definitely. We have a couple of base questions we ask on Monday morning. So let's run by them kind of fast. First one is from the opening today, which was around let's call it $41.92 on the S&P to Friday's close. Do you anticipate the market rising or falling? So it's funny because going into this and going into today, let alone this event, I had the expectation of the market dropping off right away upon the open. And I think it was just based on seeing it slowly consolidate higher across the last week without a real big move up or down. And there's a common phrase that I'll mention to our students live inside our cyber group trading room. And it's just to say if it's not breaking higher, there's only one other way it's going to go. It could be said for an equity, but of course an index like the S&P. And going into today, I was looking up just on basic news websites, MarketWatch, Bloomberg, et cetera. I go on MarketWatch literally on their homepage. It says, analysts expect 10% drop off on the S&P across so and so time. And you look ahead and for as much as it's been going up, you have to expect to drop at some point now for how long that will drop. That's for us to kind of find out and react to, right? Right, definitely. And we're kind of at a big juncture this $4,200 plus or minus. It's either A, going to blow through this thing and really give another leg up, or it's going to finally get the correction you're talking about. So it's kind of a binary area. Do you get that feeling? I do just because like I said, and like you brought up as well, it tends to be just a tighter range of consolidation. You tend to see these pops and then drops and then just these intermediary closes across the S&P. I'm looking at my chart here, which you cannot see, but that's on the spy, the S&P ETF, whereas you have of course the S&P ticker. So, you know, they're of course identical, right? Very similar in that sense. So I'm looking just, you know, and one of the differences between myself and Fausto, he keeps it very simple. Keep it super simple, the kiss trading method that he employs. And I do that for the most part, but across the last six and a half years, my mind is kind of wandered, my curiosity, I start using moving averages, which he doesn't use as frequent. And I put them on the S&P or I put them on the spy daily chart. They've been rotting them up.  But for as much as it's been accelerating off the even the 20 EMA, this is why I think that we're catching our consolidation here across the last week. And you know, if it ends up making for a big drop, it wouldn't shock me over time to see a bigger drop just across the next two, three months. I know that, you know, that's that was hinging upon the banks reporting. I know the blue chip companies reported last week, still a couple today. And that might tell part of the story for what's ahead at least short term. Right.  But in your situation, you're kind of focused on the order flow.  Not so much on what the earnings are going to be on a certain day? Absolutely. So, you know, that's where we say all the time, just because good news comes out, let alone earnings, but you know, any sort of news price could be fixed in. And then after that, even if it's not, and you think it's going to make a big move up off of great earnings, what happens if the life gets sucked out of that trade rather quick? The only way to really, or the most efficient way I should say to really find that out would be by reading the tape, reading level three, the ECN book, you know, the order flow all together in order to make that determination. Now, just to give you, just to ask a question from maybe an attendees point of view, last week we saw stocks such as Microsoft, such as Netflix, such as Apple to name three that had very, very strong reports in some measures, yet their price action on their stock, let's even just talk about Apple. This thing tried to go up into the 140s and made an about face, and it had just an absolutely fabulous report. So did order flow give you any tip that you should fade that? Or what do you think? Not necessarily. I think it's more or less just the fact, I know with Apple in particular, they ended up doing a $90 billion buyback, no? Yeah, well, they said they're going to, you know, one or the other. Yep. So I think that could be part of the reason why you might tend to see a slight drop off at first, but long term that's going to, or that you would like to think with the buyback, they're doing that for a specific reason. So what are they going to do? What are they going to use that money on? So for that reason, that's why I think over time, even though you're seeing a small drop off on Apple, you saw a bigger drop off back on Thursday of last week, but now you're seeing the consolidation, unless if the markets altogether began to drop, which of course would carry Apple with it over time, short term, it should rebound. Now, getting back to the order flow thing, I mean, when it was going up towards 137, I guess around, wasn't that about as high as it got? Yep. Could you see from order flow that block trades are shorty or selling or liquidating or could you get any, I mean, does it give you any indication that, hey, either volume's drying up up here or there's an awful lot of block selling or anything like that? Or you definitely would be able to see that. So, you know, David, if you don't mind, I'd love to share my screen very briefly, you know, just to kind of show what we nicknamed Level 4, a company by the name of Bookmap that we've partnered with here at Cyber Training University, whereas Level 3, what we nicknamed for the order book, Level 3, the ECN book, those are orders that are looking to be filled. So, you know, with that, this program Bookmap provides a heat map type structure to the order book. So it provides a great visual. Oh, actually, you know what? Very briefly, this is very funny going into this. So I'm going to load this up in just a second. Right before we pressed record and David was introducing me here, I ended up losing internet and I had to reboot my computer. So with that, I don't have the Bookmap program up right now. Let me do that here. It takes about maybe a minute. Nonetheless, though, you should be able to see my screen on the Apple chart, my platform, I have it up on a 10-minute graph on the left and then from there, a daily chart on the right, which you could see the EMAs. Here's Level 3 officially what we call or officially my platform trade station, the Matrix program. So for Apple right here, you could see really not as many big orders across the bitter the ask at this time. That's partially because just typically going into the late morning, the early afternoon, you typically see much less volume traded per minute. So that's why you're getting that right now. Unless if Apple's driving down to a major support that it hasn't tested yet or re-approaching a major resistance that it fell through just previously throughout the morning, I would not expect for there to be much visibility out there. Now with that said with Bookmap, this program, it will show you that and will show you the history across the order book from the day today. So I have it up right now. You should be able to see it, right? Yeah, I can see it. Okay, great. So, you know, I cannot show that pop back from the 27th from last week. I think it was the 27th or the 28th. This can only go back just the previous 24 hours. So that including just mainly today. So if you could picture this just kind of being the earnings based pop that we caught back from the 28th. Well, notice that these darker orange lines that are out here, right? The horizontal red and orange lines, those represent orders on the ask, big sell orders, traders that are shareholders that are looking to get out of the position or traders that are looking to short, it goes both ways. So at least from today, right? This is just today, May 3rd. You could see after the open, we ended up seeing this make a nice push up and it was with the market, but we ended up seeing Apple make a nice pop through 133 at first. Now the interesting thing on this trade and in terms of reading the order flow, again, I'm just relating this to today. I can't go back to the 28th. I wish I was able to, but you know, just looking at this and utilizing this data to predict price action. Well, you would like to think just between the breakout off these highs from today, roughly 132.88 and then the orders that got filled as we would call it Fausto and myself, we would call it buying volume as this order on the ask gets hit. We would expect this to create a support, at least after the market opens. So what shocks me or what surprises me at least is to see this, you know, as it comes back down, it breaks through this white line as we would call the VWAP, the volume weighted average price ends up driving right down through 133. It doesn't even give it a chance to hold support. So in terms of our strategy and predicting price action based on the order flow, well, we would easily expect this to hold as a big support at first, but with the way this was just freely dropping, it wasn't even breaking through much volume across the bid, because if there was any volume on the bid, you would see it just across the heat map here, a darker orange red line popping across here. You know, that's your first hint of it right here at 133, but, you know, we would never look to buy a stock on the way down. We wouldn't look to buy a stock just on the bid and kick our feet up and expect everything to be fine and dandy. This is the perfect example as to why that's not okay. So, you know, if you were to buy right here off this 133 or even off this 132.88 ish price front from earlier after the open, right, the pop and drop and the breakout from this peak, you're not looking too good now as far as a day trade. Now, as far as a swing trade or like at least a trade across the remaining days of this week, well, that's where I would just focus even on a bigger scale. You can scroll back on this program and, you know, basically just see a bigger order or bigger orders that are across the ask here at 134, 135. So, 135 certainly should be a long term, should be a short term resistance, you know, across today, across tomorrow, perhaps even Wednesday of this week, I say long term because I'm a day trader, so I apologize for that. But, you know, so nonetheless, though, on the bid, you could see potential support coming in off of 131, 131.50, 132. And that is, you know, casual, that's very common, rather I should say, provided more volume just for any stock, let alone a blue chip like this, you're more likely to see volume spread across the order book level three and you're shown on as we would nickname level four across, you know, the 50 cent levels and whole round numbers like these. There's probably a bigger support coming in. Probably hasn't fallen too much up. Nope. There it is. Look at this at 130. So even outside of the 50 cent levels and whole numbers, which us day traders would be more interested in just using, you know, on a level by level trade, the darker red lines represent the bigger support or resistance. So that's where I would say even a decade number, like 130, you know, a $5 increment number from that, like 135, 125, those are to be even bigger levels likely on a trade like Apple. Can I just ask a couple of quick questions? The white line that goes through it, is that some type of a moving average? So that's the VWAP, the volume weighted average price. So for all the volumes shown across this picture here, it calculates the volume traded based on the average price. So, you know, after the market opens, that's why even further, pardon me, but even further, I would expect this area here, even as it crashes below this white line to be support. To have this 133 here, but if it breaks under this price and runs from it, a common principle that we teach in our classes and our one-on-one coaching program that I do, even if you expect this to be support, it breaks through it so fast. I know it's easy to say this in hindsight looking at, you know, an already painted picture. But again, this is a perfect example. This support becomes resistance again. So you can't expect this to just break through this price because it freely fell through it when you were expecting this to hold at first. The big green ball versus the big red ball, what's the difference again in those? So the way I have this structure, this program is very customizable and you can, you know, there's a bunch of settings that you can employ on this. But it's to say that the larger dots represent bigger singular transactions that are on the time and sales program. So in terms of reading the tape, allow me just to jump back to my main regular platform that most of us are just used to. And even if you're not used to trade station, of course, you know, very similar tools on your own platform, whether it's thinkorswim, fidelity, interactive brokers, Schwab, you name it. But right here, the time and sales program, this is where we're seeing the already completed transactions from the day. So as this, you know, Apple trades moving and I could jump even to a one minute chart here, squeezing up and down in this just tight range just across a slow Monday afternoon. But the time and sales represents transactions that have already been filled from level three, but also from market transactions. So you need to read this in order to identify the bigger fills, including even here. I mean, this isn't too big in the grand scheme of 48 million shares almost today, but you can see a couple of these larger fills filled at the bid, they're filled in red. That means that they were filled on the bid side. You would think that that is now a buyer shares. And that is, but for every buyer, there's a seller. That's exactly what we teach here at Cyber Trading University. So, you know, seeing this in red, I would say that's not always a good sign in terms of expecting this to move up higher. In fact, if we happen to just see this hold under that price and we see more of this red over time, it wouldn't shock me to see this, you know, continue to drop lower. Of course, the markets, you know, hinging or this is depending upon what the market does mainly, but you can see the spies just kind of just doing nothing really here made a higher low or relatively double bottom squeezed up a bit. But you know, just pretty slow here going into this Monday afternoon. Yeah, well, what about 28% of the spies into like a few of the tech stocks of, you know, if you can't get Apple going and the other ones going, it's hard to get the spies going. Absolutely, I agree. In terms of the earnings, I was really looking forward to the remaining parts of this week.  But, you know, today, I didn't have any earnings listed. There was actually one that snuck up on me here today. It was a stock that we're very familiar with live inside our trading room, a stock Vaxert VXRT. Are you guys familiar with this trade? Certainly not a blue chip. So, this stock has been in the news for a long while, since basically March of last year, going into, you know, the vaccine talk, you know, this stock alongside a slew of others, you know, that ended up making a speculative news and pops then drops from that.  This stock was highly shorted to begin with, you know, there's a bunch out there that are very heavily shorted still even after that whole Reddit craze. But, you know, this was one of them and I am sure the Reddit folks there ended up, you know, catching on with this and it pumped up more than it should have. But this ended up sneaking up on me here today. It ended up dropping right at eight o'clock. You can see there, I mean, I apologize for all the wacky lines here as well. I could explain that here. That goes in part of my personal prep with day trading a stock like this. But it's to say simply though, after this drop, you know, some bad news happens. And if it's not bad news, maybe it's a direct offering of shares to where it drops down to where the listed price is at, you know, that happens frequent. But, man, you check out the earnings, they ended up reporting worse earnings than expected. And we ended up seeing them drop off even further after the open. So this ended up remaining a great trade, a great short going into this morning here. I got a question for you.  Because today, you know, we just heard the Buffett announcement over the weekend on some of his thoughts and three, you know, a couple of things hit me. Four week treasury bills are at zero interest. His businesses are seeing higher prices and people are willing to pay them. And then of course, he's got a red hot economy going. That sounds like a recipe for the metals and oil. And, you know, I'm seeing my exposure in metal and oil doing very good this day. Do you like a Neumann, you know, rather than using an index, what about like a Neumann mining or a GDX or something? Absolutely. GDX is a great one to follow here. It's an ETF. So in terms of use in this map program, level four, as we name it, it's tougher to use based on the ETF orders that are out there because, you know, there are a lot largely algo driven, I feel. So in terms of seeing that and along with that ETFs are made up based upon stocks, bonds, et cetera. So, you know, with this year was this Veneq. Okay. Yeah. This is Veneq Gold ETF. So I don't know exactly what this is composed of. I know that Jnug. He's got a lot of big, big companies like General. Yeah. Neumann and Barrick and those kind of guys. Okay, great. So Neumann could be a stock that we could look at here. Maybe it will look a lot more as I would kind of call it normal. So here, let me pull this up. It will probably take about 30 seconds on our heat map program here.  We ended up seeing it make as Fausto and myself would call a slingshot move where it ends up dropping down, coiling up and ended up seeing the breakout higher later on. So let's take a look here. Looks like anything above 63 was a deal. So one facet of day trading that we typically look at and might be tougher to use here just from the pre-market. There wasn't a whole lot of activity within the pre-market and that's fine, but it's to say, what if history repeats itself? That's just the common question that we like to ask. So what if history repeats itself in the sense of buying? So after the market opened up this morning, and this is pretty important, I'll bring this back to my trade station chart, my normal platform in just a moment, but you were asking about the big dots. And you know, this right here, it shows the data box that you could see there. It's kind of faint writing and white, but it says volume 10,100 at 6335. That's not really that big in the grand scheme of things, 10,000 shares. But on a percentage of what it normally does, is it big? Well, that I can't answer right off the top of my head. Probably not, probably not really, but this is pretty big. 138,213 at 6348. So that is what I personally call, and we teach this within our phase two, it's within our intermediate course that we provide, but it's what we call the opening bell print. It's a market on open transaction that shows up on the time and sales platform here, the program, I should say. So I'll even just show this straight from the tape from this morning. Thankfully, my broker platform trade station allows me to go back on the time and sales with their trade station 10 here. Let's check this fast. And I only show this just because this is common. This is normal on a day-to-day basis. So you could see it right there, and it's actually a duplicate here, print in white. So disregard that if you can, but this is the exact transaction that I just read off to you. So this showed up right at 9.30 this morning. It creates a level. So if you just think about that and say, well, for all of that big volume that got filled, 138,000 plus shares at exactly that price, who's buying and selling and transacting at that price at that time? I don't know. I can't answer that, but all I know is that's pretty big. The stock today is trading 3.5 million shares. So I don't know the percentage of that print to that volume total across the day, but that's fairly big for what we would look for in a $63 stock. So it's like asking if you were to see on level three here, this is what we call the order book, the ECN book, level three. If you were to see a 138,000 share order on the ask here, compared to all these other orders that are out there currently at this time, is that not huge? No, totally. So you would have to respect that. And with that, this is where I ask, what if history repeats itself? So it's easy to study from in hindsight, but this is the way that we instruct and teach in our classes and our trading room, et cetera. So when this ends up initially breaking through the $63.48 price, it makes a false breakout a pop and drop. This is a very quick false breakout, mind you. This is only about four minutes worth of time, five minutes worth of time here. But as a day trade, if you see and recognize the false breakout at first here, and if you have strength, if you're bullish on the sector, and not everyone can say that there is, I'm just spitballing here saying, if you're following gold, if you're bullish, short-term across the week, long-term, of course, but on the short-term side of things, it's easy to say, but when this rebreaks over this price here, this is your entry point to get in. As far as a day trade at least now on a swing trade, you might sit here and say, well, why not buy lower from this price? It's easy to say in hindsight that you can get in lower from $63.20 and so forth, but we're not following a stock on the way down. We just talked about that with Apple. We just did that song and dance on Apple and look where it is. I mean, your philosophy is basically, we're not going to try to pick the low point. We want to get on a train that's running. We're a momentum player. And until the momentum is going your way, you're not looking to pin the tail on the falling knife. That is exactly it. In terms of day trading in particular and the way that our style of trading, it's frowned upon because it's very dangerous. I can't tell you that it's not. That would be very irresponsible of me. It's for me to tell you that so long as you have structure, discipline, organization, and if you have the effort to put in yourself to study and really to learn from your mistakes, what other traders are doing themselves, just be a good student. That's all. Age is just a number in this game.  They have their own accounts. They have their own account sizes. They do their own share sizes, but they're with us. They're studying. They're following up with us and they're gaining a lot every day. Two other things I just want to look at. Silver and the energy. SILJ definitely looked like it was going someplace here right on the opening as well. Okay. So the SILJ trade is trading over 1 million shares today. Is it? Yeah, this is, no, Fang ETF. Silver, juniors. Yep. So the one I would go with in this one, trades just more volume for us here. Those are the more blue tripper ones. Yeah. The SLV here. And then also, I don't think this is an ETF. I mean, please let me know if I'm wrong because I've no, that's Pan American. Pan American obviously is one of the front runners. One of the bigger silver equities that is. Yeah. Okay. So let me pop this up on our heat map program and I'll kind of do a similar analysis. You know, it's easy to say that both moved up very similar to what we saw out of today. All metals ended up doing well. When you had said metal as well, one thing for me, when I first started learning with Fausto, even as an employee with zero market experience back in 2014, and I'm sitting on the sidelines as a student quote unquote learning and really picking this up, you know, just day in day out more than most or anyone, the stock X US Steel is like one of my favorites for any of our students that might be listening in alive or over the recording at least, but you know, they'll get a kick out of hearing that. I used to love trading X back when it was a 10, 12, $14 stock. This is back before the 2016 election and then it took off. It fell out of our price range. I'll load this up as well just because it's a personal interest. Yeah. And it's an industrial metal and there's supposed to be some bottlenecks on supplies of these things. So the SLV trade, and I'd assume the same with Pan American, this is like the type of look that you'll get it from this program if it's an ETF or a fund at least. And you know, you don't really see much of visibility out there. You don't see any darker orange or red lines that stretch across this screen. And it's to say that if you were able to see that, at least that gives you something to work off of. That gives you some sense of support or resistance to work off of here, at least with Neumann mining. You saw that at least throughout the morning here at 6370 a year, 6420 popped up one here that was stretched across the day at a major level 6450. So for SLV, you don't really have that there. So I mean, it's easy to say because it already happened and all of these were moving similarly. But you know, based on this opening bell print that market on open transaction that I mentioned before on Neumann, this year is a 252,000 share transaction priced at 2460. If you scale this back, you should see that 201,000. I guess that aggregates a little bit more. But you know, at 2460, a 201,000 share print came in on this SLV trade. So it made the same exact move. I think X might be a better one just because being an equity, it definitely has a better look to it on this heat map structure. Like you could see even pre-market, there was resistance off of 2399. I'd mentioned before with Apple that for an equity at least and especially a blue chip like Apple and we'll call X, you know, a more well-known stock of blue chips, you know, steel stock, you're more likely to find bigger orders off those 50 cent price levels and whole numbers. So here off of 2350, when this pops up and you happen to see this, it goes to show that that's a pretty big order that's out there, a big sell order that's out there. It creates a resistance, but that's resistance until that order gets filled. So when that order gets filled, that's the momentum that you would like to see in order to, you know, potentially, and that's the key word, of course, because, you know, it's all looking back and hindsight, but, you know, potentially see the stock move up over time. Yeah. The idea is, you know, to try to follow the momentum and the order flow and ride it until it stops doing that. And then on a day trade, you know, you're trying to get out when it looks like the momentum is turned, right? Absolutely. Like as far as the day trade today, I stopped trading roughly around like 10, 45, 11 o'clock this morning for a Monday. It's a long story, but I was being more cautious with my trading today because I was on a really nice hot streak from dating back to Friday of the week before last. And you know that that's not luck, but that hot streak is going to end at some point, you'll run into a couple of ruts or, you know, silly trades or the market's not going to move the way you want it to. So I thought of that ahead of time. I had a good morning today. I took my money and ran. Now I say that because you look at the sex trade, I wouldn't be in this trade even if I finished up nicely from before. I just right now wouldn't be the time to be trading this.  There could have been some good money to take on this trade. When this ended up moving up to the resistance off of $24, you could see that there was a bigger order on the ask roughly about 17,000, 16,000 plus shares. So I would expect that to hold. If that was there, especially since pre-market hours or, you know, as the market opened up that solidified into a resistance level off of 24. If I was in a trade here, I would easily sell at 24. It pushed up a little bit higher, but that's not to say that you can't get back in later on. I mean, the ship has gone and sailed for us here at least if I ever wanted to jump in off 24. But at least if you were watching this from about 10, 15 minutes ago, you could see when it re-broke that 24, you ask, what if history repeats itself? So based on the initial buying that you had, that's how you want to go with the momentum. There was a false breakout here. All right, that's fine. And there was one here as well. But if it keeps needling that resistance and breaks through it, that's where you look to take the trade. So it's easy to say it, but if you jump in at 24 and even on 500 shares, you're picking up $120 profit right now in what 10 minutes time, 15 minutes time. Right. And again, that's the whole idea with the day trading is obviously to get in and out and to try to grab some money and try to ride a little momentum. That's pretty much the long and short of it, right? Exactly. Yep. With regards to OIH, that's an energy thing, energy servicing, and it definitely looks like it's got some legs as well. Okay, here give me a brief moment. I have to jump to that OIH. So this one probably not trading as much volume. Yeah, just it's like a spotier chart as we kind of call it more inactive in terms of volume. Yeah, 316,000 shares traded today, but this is an oil ETF. So I'm not as familiar with the oil sector, or at least crude in particular. I know that there's a few oil stocks that our traders tend to focus on. And I'll look at them off of news or off of more active mornings in the pre-market trading and trading hours. Oxy, Apache, MRO, if I'm not mistaken, is another one. Right, Marathon. Valero, VLO would be good. COG, HAL. So it looks like something's coming into that market, huh? Yeah, there's a few stocks that are moving up actually pretty well. This COG one actually looked all right. I don't know how much volume it's trading per minute, but better trend here at least going into this time of the day. As far as like, again, I keep relating back to what we do, but in terms of a day trade, seeing a stock near like 2.30 in the afternoon, 2.45 Eastern time, that is near the highs, approaching the highs, even after it shook off the highs previously, if it moves back up there and it's right there, that's the type of trade that you would expect further strength in that direction going into the final hour of the market day. So it's not a full-fledged guarantee that, hey, if this is at the highs going into the 3 o'clock hour, that it's going to run. You need to have the momentum behind that, right? The buying. But if there is an order on the ask, a resistance level that gets taken out, then that allows the stock more ability to make a better move from that price for it to make the pop. This one that I'll show you briefly, because this is not oiled by any means, OCGN and another company that we've been trading across the last really several months, but across the last week has come out with vaccine news and I have my chart all lined up here, so pardon that again, but even here going into the afternoon, this is so strong. You could see this breaking through resistance from earlier, even at 15. It had a really tough time breaking above this line here, and really once it did, it didn't make the biggest move from it. I knew that 15 was a major level and that was going to be a price level where we saw more volume compared to most get filled across the day. My personal rule of thumb and Fausto says this in his own ways too, to say it, it's that when a big volume level gets filled, you'd expect to see a pretty big move from that price after. If it doesn't make that big move right away after, shortly after as a day trade, then there's a good chance it's going to make a big move just not in the direction that you're looking for. Something's wrong. Yeah, so this was as like PG is to say, it was a pain in the butt today, this trade off of 15, but look at where it is now, where it went to. So when it re-broke above this 15, it still had a tough time of shaking about 10, 12, 15 cents lower it seems here, but it eventually pushed up higher, used this as support and ended up making that eventual run up that we wanted from the morning, but even here going into the afternoon, this was pinning up against 16 when it broke above 16 here. And you know what? I could even go back on the time in sales. So if you don't mind, I could probably take a quick 30 seconds to do this here. Sure. And when you're doing this, you have to be willing to have sold it and be willing to come back in even if it's at a higher prices because circumstances have changed. Yes.  Yes. Now, with that though, right?  We're using just this one price level here, 16 just for right now, but it's to say that, hey, what if this stock breaks down so much, it drops down to 15 again? Well, if I am bullish on this stock across the next however many minutes, then perhaps that 15 could be the slingshot point where we see it break under and over that and it runs up higher. I was relating before to seeing a stock near the highs going into three o'clock. So if that happens to see it move all the way back up to 16, that's a tall order. So distance is equally as important as time here in terms of seeing continuation in a stock moving higher. I'm trying to go back on the time in sales program here. I probably need to. Do you find some stocks that are fairly orderly to do the day trading in? I mean, I'm sure if you do it all the time, are there stocks that seem to trade, let's call it better than others for the day trading? Yes. Now notice, so with that in mind, notice what I'm looking at on the far right side here. Look at the trade station matrix. So you're looking at a stock that has a consistently tight spread. You're looking at a stock that has big orders at a lot of price levels. Even live here, we're just looking at this live order book. I was trying to get my time and sales to show, but I'll do that in a second. You could see even here at 1560 on the right hand side of my platform in blue, that's an order on the bid that that could be a potential support for a stock trading 230 million shares. That's not really the biggest amount, but you know, just below there and I wish that it will pop up in the next second or so it did before, but at 1550 50 cent level, there's going to be a bigger order. You could see it. There we go. Hello, 38,000 shares popping up right there. So that is an order on the bid and that creates support. So hey, if this doesn't break above 16 very soon, then I'd like to think it's going to test that price. And you know, if it breaks below there, I wouldn't be as interested in buying that stuff buying the stock until it can get back above this price. Right. Because again, I keep, I mean, I'm so thankful that you had brought up Apple out of all the blue chip stocks to start with, right? Could have been Amazon, could have been Microsoft, which you did mention, but you said Apple and it resonated with me. It's just that 133 can't be a better representation of, you know, why we resistance. Yeah. Well, why we can't catch the following night. Right. Oh, yeah, yeah. Support. So, you know, going back to that OCG and the vaccine play here, if this fails to break out over 16, this may look to drive right back down to 1550. You know, it might break below there. And if it breaks under and then immediately back over, that's a bigger sign to me. That would tell me, hey, if it does that, then there was a better chance of it, you know, solidifying that support again and for it to run up higher into the close, like we would, you know, dream about what we would hope to see. Now the day trading, it's real important to have volume because you want to make sure they can absorb your orders. And it's real important to have relatively tight bid offers because you can't have a situation where it takes, you know, 25 cents to break even between the bid and offer, right? Agreed. And it's not only just based on the spread, but the consistency of the orders that are out there on the bidder, the ask. So for a faster moving stock, even like this OCGN, this is a fast mover. I mean, for a $15 stock for it to be making, you know, even during slow lunch hour here, five to eight to 10 cent bars at times, you know, per minute, that's pretty fast. So you would like to not only see a tighter spread between the top bid lowest offer, but a consistency of orders that can create a web of support, a safety net for you at least so you don't, you know, overreact on a big drop and, you know, you close out at market 20 cents lower than you thought that you were going to close out at. Right. You know, exactly. In terms of that, allow me just to say for anyone that's looking to get into day trading, do not look to use market orders. I would primarily use limit orders on my trading. I mean, less of the stock is much slower. I mean, we can go to a name brand like Ford. I'm not afraid. We wouldn't use, you know, like markets even on something as thick as Apple. Apple moves a little quick. So, you know, it's a more expensive stock, so it should just that's a very general rule of thumb, which doesn't always apply on a 100% basis. But, you know, Apple definitely has great liquidity for, for its price really quick, just to show you what happens here on OCGN, just because I have my level four up on my other screen, which you can't see, but we just missed the big break below 1550. If you just tried placing an order on the bid at 1550 to buy, you're down 20 cents instantly. I'd say. Yeah. So, to Apple, everyone has their own cup of tea, right? I'm not saying that it's, you know, breaking the law if you use a market order. I'm just saying my personal preference, I would primarily use a limit order on a trade, even like Apple. It has great spread and great liquidity. And then if you don't get filled, then you do a cancel replays. Yes. Yeah. Rather than just, you know, some people say on other types of trading, when you want to go in, you play the prices right with a limit order. When you want out, you use markets, but in this particular case, because you're working for relatively smaller amounts of money, you're trying to, you know, shall we say make the pencil a little bit sharper? Yes, we need to get in at our price or better, I guess, but that's not always the case, but our price at our desired level. So I would much rather use a limit order for that, you know, unless it's going to make a huge drop that we're unaware of. And that's the risk that comes with it, but unless that happens, I'm sure using a market order now on Apple, you're not going to get burned to bed on an entry.  So, you know, if you can get filled at 132.52 or 132.72, I don't think that's too earth shattering for you on a six month long-term trade.  Does that also mean that the spreads are tight? I can't believe that you just brought up AMD right now. So my brief history with AMD, right? So I told you folks just to begin and everybody else listening right now that, hey, I started off with zero market experience back in 2014. So that means, hey, I don't really have the experience of dealing with the shakes and the rattles and rolls of, you know, a stock that's making a move, let's say off of earnings. So AMD, and I'll watch here, just I remember watching this back in 2015 or 2016, one of those years, and it was eight, 10, $12 stock, it was after it already moved up like 600% from like two bucks at bottomed out at like two bucks, ended up moving up myself and a colleague at that time. We had an account split and we ended up diving into AMD and we did it on way too many shares. It was on 3,000 shares and for us, you know, that was a lot at the time. But it's to say that that was like a day trade sized position as a long four to five year hold that we were anticipating. Long story short, the research and due diligence I did on AMD at the time back when it was you know, 8, 10, $12 stock, I guess it was 2017 at that point. But it's to say that I thought and the research I read it was going to be a $70, $75 stock in five years, you know, between the deep learning artificial intelligence, you know, Lisa Soother CEO, like I'm definitely interested in AMD, like I know a little bit about it. And I trust me, I know about it because after their first inline earnings, it had to have been this year, we were up a little bit, it dropped and the drop ended up causing us to lose like 80% of our profits. We ended up closing out with like maybe like $1,000 or $2,000 net total, better to have a profit than not at all. But look what happened after. So the inexperience there led me to not get back in. And if I did, it would have should have been on a much smaller share size. So I'd be just at least less tense about the move. But it ended up making that big move. And the fact you just brought that up, it just immediately reminded me of that short story. So I apologize for bringing that up right there. Let's get AMD up here for you. With AMD, you could see from the morning today, it ended up making a big drop. So I mean, as soon as the market opened, there was no real retracement on this, you know, for a trade like AMD, if it's not from 8150 or 8155, this range of support that it broke under at first, which it did hold as resistance, I guess it did. So there was room here. But even here after as much as this stock dropped, it hasn't really made any real serious retracement back up to a major prior support level. It held it briefly here before it broke lower. And then after that, it was just a lot of chop around the 80 level going into the mid to elite morning here. So this could be one of the more annoying parts with day trading. And that's not having a stock move the way that you would want it to move. So let's say here, if you missed the boat from 8150 or 8155 is a short on AMD this morning, this dropping, so you're not going to try and catch the falling knife. And you'd much rather go with the go with the flow, go with the order flow, right? But as this continues to drop, you might think, well, hey, this is going to continue to drop over time, or you might sit there and think, well, hey, going into this point in the day, it's already dropped off so much. You might look at this as a trade and say, all right, well, where's the balance going to take place from? Well, that balance should or that move, rather, if it's not a balance, it will be a continuation on the way down. But that move should be right from here, this dark red line, this big support off of $80. So what's annoying about this move is that when it ends up re breaking this support right here, you would anticipate continuation on the way down. Unless if there's something very big right below this price, holding it up as support, which I guess there is $79.70, but that's not as big as this red line here. The red versus the orange represents a bigger order versus smaller one. So even when it re breaks below $80, I would expect continuation. So ends up dropping down just a bit and makes this short, or makes this quick little squeeze back up here. Same thing. I'd expect this to begin to break down over time from the 80 level. But even here, it does a little bit, but still a shaking around. It's not making nearly as good of a move as you would want it to. And then finally just give it a few minutes of rest and break. It was consolidating over 80. Once it ended up re breaking below that price later on going into $10.30. It took a while, but you ended up getting your continued move. So there are times where my students will trade a stack like AMD, I will, OCGN we just saw before, but we don't control the stock market. We don't control the stocks that we're looking at, the stocks that we're trading. Even if I can trade a thousand shares of this $80 stack, which is a lot to risk on a trade for any trade, my 1000 shares does nothing to 44.7 million share AMD. No, I mean, it takes in so much volume, yeah. Exactly. So it's like simple philosophy, right? It's easy to agree on this, listen to this, you know, recording right now and say, yeah, of course, like that makes sense. But how often do you think about that in the heat of the moment? Yeah, no, probably not as often as you, as you should. Do you do much with the international markets?  Let me ask you, is that why specifically in European, do you think that's why Baba popped right away after shortly after the open? Because, you know, they're not, they're not always tied or married together. But to see AMD tank and that squeeze up, that's pretty interesting. They've traded similarly in the past. Yeah, I just was looking at Baba from the standpoint of their P ratio has dropped about 33%. And so has their book to value. So obviously it's discounted since September 30th, rather significantly.  So I figured it might be something to look at. Oh, as a sort of swing trade or long-term trade, then one thing I want to do here is just look at the daily chart. I mean, I'd mentioned this very briefly before. And I day trade probably about 80 to 85% of the time now compared to swing trading. In fact, I have more invested in crypto than I do invested in stocks. I day trade more than I invest in crypto, but that's a different story. It's to say with, you know, Baba here, as this is making what we would call a higher low from the last dip back from the beginning of this year, I would definitely want to see this built support above EMAs. Look to see this begin to squeeze up more. You know, it's to say, if you can get in right now and then that happens, of course, that would be great to see and you get in at a lower price. But the way this is moving and should we get, and this is what I was saying, should we get a drop in the market, right? That was the whole preface to the beginning of this discussion. You would have to expect Baba to go with it, right? So that's where we see a potential breakdown at this point. Maybe down at 200, maybe down towards at first 196, 195 here, I could even go to a weekly chart just to show even stronger support long-term. But you know, that's where I say at that point, should the markets drop? And I wouldn't expect them to drop too much, but it's to say a stock like this and anything that we've spoken about previously here, we'll go with it and maybe something like 200 could be a long-term support level over time. Or if it goes to 255, the train looks like it'll be leaving the station and it'd better to jump on a train that's headed to Boston than to Florida, right? If it's the summer, that's not too bad. So maybe. But yeah, that's all back to the momentum concept. Yes, exactly. Like here right now, I mean, oh, this is one minute, try to do that back to daily here, but I'll jump to one minute. I mean, on a day trade side, you know, from a day trade standpoint, of course this is dropping, right? Like, and it's right out of support level from earlier today.  But there's a reason it did that, right? So if it keeps dropping down to that price and we keep seeing the selling coming in my volume spikes here, you know, a little bit more red now and more red on the time in sales program, perhaps I would expect continuation at that point over time. And I say that for today, this afternoon, not necessarily say tomorrow this week, long term, but you know, from a day trade standpoint, the day trade strategies that we employed cyber trading, it's to be used on a bigger scale. You just need to be able to follow the order flow first in order to realize how that paints the picture on the chart that you're looking at.  If we keep seeing a lot of buying coming off 200 at some point, and I'm spitballing a hypothetical here, but let's say the markets drop, this goes down at 200 and we see a lot of buying big transactions, big prints on the time in sales at 200. There's a reason that it's doing that or even around that price, smart money is not always trading at one specific price level, you know, especially longer term trades, you'll tend to see, you know, bigger structure being built around a series of price levels over time. So it creates, like I'd said before, a web of support. I'm relating that to like the time in sales transactions here, but it relates also in terms of reading level three, reading the order book, seeing bigger orders that are popping up to create that, you know, so to say web. How about a couple of different stocks that would be, one would be in gambling and one would be in pot. And yeah, is there anything like either DraftKings or Tillray or something like that that you could get an idea of how that's trading? Yeah, absolutely. Well, first I'll say though, like I'm looking at my Whiteboard calendar, my famous Whiteboard calendar here in front of my home office. You have Penn National Gaming earnings on Thursday morning that coming up on April 6th, and then DraftKings earnings coming up just that Friday morning the day after. So I look forward to that. I'm not as interested necessarily in reading like the finance numbers behind it. I'm definitely interested in learning more about, you know, what they might be offering ahead if there's any other states that's going to be regulating or legalizing gambling and opening up shop. So, you know, a company like Penn National Gaming, which acquired a social media company Barstool Sports, they've taken off, right? And they've taken off with the market. But to see a stock go from 4 to 140 in such a short amount of time, it's not to say the social media, you know, people or Barstool, whoever is driving that specifically, but acquiring a company like that, that can give you such a bigger audience and more eyeballs on the company, not just on a social media scale, but of course, in a blue chip scale. So to say, being spread across Bloomberg Terminal and being spread across Benzinga Pro, you know, big news alert service companies that we use here, more traders are going to get more eyeballs on a company like this. You know, it's easy to say after this whole move already happened. And it's not that I ended up swing trading this, I did not, but it doesn't surprise me that this made the move that it made. Now in terms of what's ahead long term, it's all hinging upon the market. I think, you know, we're not going to go into another shutdown, right? I mean, that's behind us at this point. But between the tax hike potentially from Biden and a couple of other things, just with the market moving from the last few months, we're due for a drop. So to see Penn National gaming here on the daily side of things, break below my 100 EMA on the daily, it was teeter tottering over that price for the last few weeks. We had a big snap from there, ends up reporting bad earnings. We could see this drop off a lot more, perhaps down towards the big support level over time, like a 75 or 76 or so here, just the highs back from September of 20. Yeah. And they have drops before, you know, you see 70 going down to 50 right there. What about Tillray? Is anything going on with that? Well, Tillray announced officially. And, you know, this was speculative, I guess, we were wondering when the official date would be, at least we as in my students and I inside our trading room, they've been long rumored to be merging with another pot company, APHA, and that news was made official today. So with that, we ended up seeing Tillray make a bit of a drop. It wasn't really on our radar too much after the open after the drop, because once it broke below support, that's where you just think, well, it's likely to just move down more and it's, you know, not shortable. So we're not really as interested in that as a short. Now, as far as long term, we ended up trading Tillray, not just back from 2021. This is like a stock that I will probably always remember like my AMD story from before, not that I was swing trading this, but I need to go back a little bit further on the daily chart.  This stock ended up running from like 25 bucks back in 2018, all the way to 300 bucks. Ended up making this massive short squeeze type of move. You know, as a day trade, it was incredible as a swing trade. It was something that after a certain point, we just set to stay away from because you would think it would come back down. Well, it definitely came back down, but anytime you see a stock make that type of move, and that's not really like a smoke and mirrors type of like squeeze up here, sometimes my platform will give me like a move on the chart that it doesn't, it's not really that exact move like reverse splits factor in and, you know, make make it seem like a much bigger run up. This stock went from 25 to 300. So what's stopping the stock from making that type of squeeze up or even a fraction of that type of squeeze up later on?  But if it's active and pre-market, if there's news on it, you know, obviously, we just had the news today on April, we just said so. And obviously I say the word obviously because you look back in January, it ended up making that fraction of a run up, right? We saw it go from 10 to 65 and back down. So we knew that just as likely as it was to see the squeeze up back in January, February that it was just as likely to see it dump off like it did back in 2018. So you might sit here and think, you know, hey, what if you end up getting in at the wrong time or what if you end up giving away a lot of the profit? Hey, it's hard to say that it wasn't that it didn't happen before, right? This already made a move back in 2018, made the squeeze back in January, February here. So again, in terms of long term, and really with PODL together, it's similar to gambling, I will say. So, you know, it's in terms of legalization and getting it federally legal. So that type of news should catapult all the POD stocks. But we've been sitting here waiting when and, you know, wondering if it's going to happen this year or at all. I know more and more states are, you know, opening up, but that hasn't really affected Tilleray or any of the POD stocks as much long term. It definitely affects it short term in terms of seeing a pre-market pop, a big squeeze up, and then the dump off. So a lot of this move here was contributed to, you know, hearing more about Cuomo potentially legalizing it on a state level here in New York and then, you know, state to state otherwise, but you can't rely on that long term. So, you know, if you're looking for a really good entry as far as a swing, I would focus more on the chart than the news. And then when the news comes out, that should catapult things. So if you're at this bullish on it long term, that's where I was saying before, you don't focus on the nickels and dimes in the pennies. You know, if you're focused on this long term, read the chart, focus on the historical, you know, resistance, and perhaps that could become support if the markets drop off entirely. So we're coming to the top of the hour, Josh. This is a great time to just wrap it up with again, who you are and again, what they can get out of the Cyber Trading University. And if you have any special offers or something, this is a great time to extend them. Absolutely. So first and foremost, it's been a pleasure, David. Thank you so much again for having me on your platform. Since the slight little internet issue I had, which is very brief, so that didn't really tamper too much with my presentation. Thank you so much to everybody listening in right now. It's been a pleasure being on this broadcast. I hope to be on here at some point soon. I know that Faso is typically on here as he should. So in the event that he needs to be subbed in first, you need someone to sub in from then hopefully I'll be back on here. But nonetheless, for everybody tuning in live, I want to show really quickly this and I'll show my little offer here at the end, our Cyber Group Trading Room. It's our live professional trading room. We host it Monday to Friday from 8am Eastern time all the way to 4.30pm every day. I need to let me try and log in here quickly. I got to show the screen here quick. You should be able to see at least the chat that's going through here. You could see a couple of our traders like Andrea and Ken and one of our instructors, Rich, commenting right now. This is just a little basic slide and Rich, it looks like he's sharing the screen here in a second, just refreshing it. This is our live trading room. We host our audio broadcasts here every day, our morning meeting that Faso hosts at 9am, the afternoon meeting, which I'll be doing myself coming up in just about 30 minutes for everyone live there. And I do that on social media as well. So if you're interested folks, make sure that you sign up for our trial. That would be right here. You can go right to this link right here, c2.co slash trial, or you can call the following number, 877-70-CYBER, one week, $9. Just watch. You're not looking to trade with us because you need to learn before you earn.  That's the way that you're going to lose your money, not gain your money. So if you're looking to learn first, make sure that you join our trading room as a trial member. Go right to that link on the banner below just to get started. Okay, sounds great, Josh. Thanks a lot for being here. As far as option professor's concern, we have a weekly market update. We send out free of charge. You just go ahead and need to go to the website, optionprofessor.com and put your email in. And we go over everything from the stock market, bonds, commodities, international energy, and metals. So you get a lot for your free newsletter. And we've been doing it for decades. So we certainly have something to say. Okay, thanks a lot, Josh, for being here. And back to David and good luck to everybody this week. Thank you so much. All right, thanks, guys. Great, great show today. And Josh, thank you for being here. Great to have you here for the sub for Fausto. And yeah, definitely want to have you back soon. So I appreciate it. Thank you guys again for having me. And I look forward to it. You know, hey, it was a slight bit out of my normal realm, which is good because you don't like to be too complacent. So I was excited talking about the spy and know a lot of blue chip stocks that I don't day trade myself as much, but know how to review and analyze just as much as the ones that I do happen to trade. So I really appreciate that. Am I good to leave this room now at this point? Oh, yeah, I'm just closing up there. So yeah, so just yeah, so just a quick reminder for everyone, be sure to subscribe to timing research on YouTube and your favorite podcast directory or app. Also, be sure to join us tomorrow for analyze your trade at 4pm Eastern time. You can always go to timingresearch.com slash live to get access to the live show. And also, we have another one of our big synergy trader events this week. So it's been about two months since the last one. So we have 15 presentations lined up. And this will be on psychology, discipline and time management. So that'll be this Wednesday, May 5th and Thursday, May 6th from 10am Eastern time until about 5pm Eastern time. And so Fausto is going to join us for that. And Josh, do you have his title? I don't have it on me. Oh, iceberg orders. How to beat market manipulation is what Fausto is going to be talking on. He'll also be showing the level four that I brought up just before as well, the book map program too. Okay, great. Yeah. So, yeah. So like I said, we have 15 presentations. The option professor will be doing one as well. Also, Mercedes Van Essen, Michael Feliguera, David Keller, Valerie Fox, Jeremy Newsom, Julie and Adrian Manns, Mandy Raphson-Johnny, Norman Hallett, Anka Metcalf, Doc Severson, Maria Villatoro, and Sean Kozak will all be doing presentations. So again, that's May 5th and 6th this Wednesday and Thursday from starting at 10am Eastern time. So be sure to join us for that. And like I said, you can always go to timingresearch.com slash live to get access to the live events. So just want to thank my guests again for today. Josh Levitan of cybertradinguniversity.com, first time guests here. So happy to have him and the option professor of optionprofessor.com. Thanks everyone. Thanks, David. Thank you.


Okay, we can start. First of all, I would like to remind you, there are lightning talks right after this presentation and now please welcome Stanislav with his presentation of HTTPS certificate not trusted. Hello, welcome everybody. I didn't expect so much people so I'm glad you came. Let me introduce myself. My name is Stanislav Židek and I'm working at Quality Engineering in Red Hat. In our team we are dealing mostly with security related packages and we are kind of concentrating a lot on testing SSL and TLS. But today my talk is going to be really like beginner oriented. Don't expect anything fancy. I just got an idea like this is something that happens to everybody and if like someone wants to know more what's happening it might maybe be beneficial to give some basic overview of what's happening. Okay, so the topic is HTTPS certificate not trusted which probably everyone has sometimes seen in their browser while connecting to some probably badly configured server but maybe it doesn't have to be that way. A bit about motivation like we are doing that because this is like the thing you can really see with your own eyes even if you are not expert in public infrastructure and such things. What we want to achieve here is like get some better understanding of what's happening under the hood and how we want to get it there. We want to get a bit more familiar with some command line tools that can help us debug some common problems that happen all the time. As I already said it's really for beginners so don't expect anything fancy. Let's start with a bit theory so what we are basically going or what we want to address or why we have the problems is because we want to address the key distribution problem when we want to communicate securely. What we use like let's go from bottom up so we start with public key cryptography which is a great thing and it helps us with the key distribution like really a lot because like we don't have to find some secure channel to exchange some secret key with someone and then use it and keep it secret all the time. It makes it easier like a lot of easier I can go to you and say like here is my public key everyone else you can see it no problem but after you see it you can kind of communicate to me securely. So this is a huge help with key distribution but it doesn't address it like whole. The problem is like you cannot be really sure it's my key like you can be if I now show it to you but you probably cannot when you see it just somewhere on the Internet and there will be written OK that's key of standard everyone trusted it might have been some attacker or anyone. So the next step is like the certificate certificate is a thing that tries to bind some other information to that public key like to associate it with some data and more like someone attests that it's correct. So typically I will take my public key I will take I will put some information to that like it's it's mine it's valid since then and it's used for I don't know what. Give it to some certification authority which in theory some kind of institution that like other people also will trust. Certificate authority sign this certificate like after some checking that it's really mind key and so on and after that theoretically I can put this certificate and everyone who downloads it can check like OK this key belongs to standard. And it was attested by this certificate authority and I trust this certificate authority therefore I can be sure to communicate with him with this public key. One step further this is not as simple like those certificate authorities can can be used like transitively.  And like if then like even the certificate authority can be trusted because someone trusts the upper level certificate authority. So how it typically looks like or what should the structure be like there should be some route certificate authority which ideally everybody should trust. Then then there should be some intermediate certificate authorities might be one might be none might be theoretically a lot of them which you don't have to know if the chain is OK like you only need to trust the route one. And one of those intermediates like it can go by a lot of levels could sign your server certificate because the server is the entity you want to trust when you are connecting somewhere. So typically you are connecting to your bank you want to know you are really connecting to your bank so no one steals your credentials. And this is how you check it. In practice those certificate authorities you trust are typically somehow pre-installed in your system. Typically in browser or somewhere else in the system because not only HTTPS is using them but the whole situation could get really complicated. And so let's have a look at at least some like basic examples what could go wrong. OK first situation I am connecting to server in this case localhost but it could have been any server like in this presentation localhost is the thing I want to connect and I want to achieve. I see this warning in Firefox this warning actually doesn't say much but we are experts we want to debug so we click advanced to see what's happening and we got error code saying something about bad domain. You can probably guess what it might be but let's have a deeper look in that command line as I promised. So what shall we do. Let's first retrieve those certificates that the server serves us and we can do that quite easily with open SSL command which has a lot of useful sub commands some of them used for debugging. For example for example here the S client it's like TLS client that can help you debug something. We can specify where should it connect. The important thing is that second argument the show search which will make the S client like print the whole certificate chain normally it only writes the server certificate. So here we can see everything it will be useful not in this example but later. And possibly if you for example debug some other certificates on your localhost or you are debugging some more complex scenarios when there are more certificates at the same IP. You can specify the server name and like it's connected with server name indication and so on and we don't have time to get into it so we can forget this one for now. Okay so I connected to that server again and I can see that something is wrong. Here I am expecting to be connecting to localhost but the certificate that's being served has the subject. Here the S means subject it's like the identification and there is some other name than localhost. So that was easy. There was like even the indication in the S client but we can get a bit deeper like if we take this blob this begin and certificate. Like this thing we can for example save it into file and we can get some more information about this certificate which might get useful. Like not here here it's obvious but anyway let's have a look what's there. We will use another sub command of open SSL. We tell him like we want to see like what's in the certificate. We are not interested in blob that's the null out and we specify the file where we save this certificate. And when we print it we actually get what we expected. There are that attributes there are that should be in the certificate and the one that's interested is as I said in the subject and there is the name that we are not expecting because we are connecting it to some like different server. A slight note here I am practically lying to in this example like normal way of doing these things is through the subject alternative name extension. So probably when you see a new new certificate like the software is not really taking care about what's in subject. It's looking in the one of those extensions because certificates have a lot of extensions and this is kind of important one and it has like the advantage you can specify more names there or anything. So that's usually the first thing you want to check. This is like old behavior. Okay let's get to next example. This one is simple again. We are seeing the same warning but after the clicking the advanced button in Firefox we see expired certificate which is probably again obvious but let's see what's happening inside anyway. We get the certificate again with the as client command as I showed in the previous example. And here when we again inspect it with X509 command we can see like the validity period is wrong. Every certificate has to have some validity period and it should be valid only in these times and here you can see that the certificate like it's okay but it was valid like two years ago. If there was 2017 everything should have been okay or 218 it's already passed, half passed one. Okay these were simple examples. Now let's get into some bit more complex ones. Now we will not be so interested in the attributes of the certificate that much. We will be more interested in the certificate chain. The thing that's related to public infrastructure I told before like certificate authorities signing some intermediate certificate authorities and so on. Again there might be problems, certificates might be different and so on. So this is kind of generic error which tells us basically that there is something wrong with certificate chain but we don't know what and there can be like many situations when this happens. So let's look at the first one. This is again like shortened output of a client command and here we see that the server serves us only one certificate and it's like self-signed by itself. This is again something you don't see that much but it's definitely like the server is not even trying to serve you something that you should trust. Because there is not even an attempt to give you some certificate authority that might be installed in your browser. So this cannot be trusted at all at least in default configuration. You can make it but anyway. Problem might be different. This one seems a bit better. Now you see the server is serving the server certificate that the first one we omitted this so it fits into the slide and it also serves the certificate authority certificate and it kind of creates the chain. Here the problem is that like it's indicated in the command name that this certificate authority is something unknown to your system or to your browser. So therefore even if this chain is okay you have nothing to compare it with everybody can create some certificate authority. The goal is when you have some public server usually to have it signed by some by some CA that is pre-installed in browsers that like you can attest somehow. Anyway even if this example doesn't work we can at least check that the chain is correct that the server certificate is really signed by this certificate authority. And this is the third and last open SSL sub command we will use today and it's open SSL verify and here we will typically specify like give him the certificate authority certificate in a file and here the server certificate. We are practically here telling the open SSL verify command that okay what's in that CA file let's pretend we trust it by default and just check the certificates that are like being thrown here. And here you can get this output if the chain is constructed well that okay the chain works so you can kind of imagine that the problem would be that you are not trusting just that CA. You can import it in the browser and in that moment everything could start working fine because now you trust it chain is correct you can connect to the server and so on. Situation might be different even though like you can still see something like this the certificate authority can be for example some other one someone generated something with the same metadata but different key and so on. And then if you run the same open SSL verify command you will get an error and now you can kind of see that okay there is some server certificate there is some CA certificate but like that server certificate is definitely not signed by that CA one. So now you see like there is the problem in the chain and it's like doesn't even link together. Even if you would have trusted that unknown CA in here like server is serving you something bad and you are not going to help yourself it can be even more different. Let's again imagine that that that error we had for the last time the unknown issuer. Here you see you are getting like again server certificate for local host but that is being signed by some let's let's say intermediate certificate authority. It's nice to see it in the name like normally you should debug to like see that it is some intermediate certificate authority and this example starts to be maybe a bit more tricky. That's quite common for example when some certificates on some servers change that even though there is some like longer chain typical server server certificate intermediate CA root CA even if you trust trust the root CA it might not be enough because for you to be able to verify it. You must see or you must have the intermediate certificate somewhere so you can construct the whole chain towards the root CA. And here like this situation is interesting because that's that's something like I cannot connect to the server like there is some certificate problem. Can you try it and other people could be like yeah I can connect like there without any problem so so what's happening. What's usually happening is that your system or your system if you have the problem you don't know that intermediate certificate and this that people for whom it works. They have it for example cashed somewhere in a browser or some NSS database or anything so even though like you are getting correct certificates server here is not providing enough information for everybody to be able to verify it. And like it's interesting that it might work for someone. It usually works for people who already saw that intermediate certificate somewhere before it got cashed but it doesn't work for example for people who didn't see it fresh install anything even though it practically it's the same. Here it's definitely the server's fault because it's not serving the whole chain. It should always send the server certificate and all the intermediate certificates linking to some root CA that browsers should trust. If you want to verify that like more complex certificate chains and when you want to somehow indicate like OK I want to trust a certificate authority this one. But then there are some some other intermediate search and I want to see if it like links down to the server certificate I want to test. You could you could use option again for open SSL verify untrusted where you kind of provide him the cash that your system might have. So this command practically makes sure that while trusting only this root root CA certificate you can like link it together to this server certificate. If you know these intermediate certificate authorities and that's how you check like the situations that are a bit more complex OK it was fast. It was just in time conclusion is like we have only talked about some really basic typical problems I wanted to you to see the commands you can use in command line because we are kind of hackers. We want to dig in command line. The one wants clicking and so on. But the reality is much more complicated if only those were the issues like probably everybody would be happy. There are many things where it can be much more complicated. There can be some bad extensions. For example that server alternative name are already talked about browser behavior might change like some certificates that work before doesn't have to work like after a new version of browser. Even the same certificates issued like on different dates might not work because some browsers are programmed like if the certificate was issued before this date. We are allowing this but not after this date. They are like in general they are trying to make the situation like more strict to get some better overall security. But again it may cause some problems. If you are interested in this topic we could definitely have a chat. Possibly if you are probably some kind of student looking at some project we can most probably make something together. You can do some verification of your own dig deeper.