Here we go. Winner, winner, chicken dinner. All right, today's giveaway, another great giveaway. Maps Anabolic. This is the foundational maps program. The maps program that started it all. I heard the founder or the creator of this program was a brilliant genius. Anyway, here's how you can win free access to Maps Anabolic. Leave a comment in the first 24 hours that we dropped this episode. Talk about the intro. Talk about the debate we had in the beginning of the intro. I don't care. Make it a good comment. We'll notify you and you'll get free access to one of the best workout programs on planet Earth. Also, by the way, subscribe to this channel. Turn on notifications. One more thing, Maps Performance and Maps Suspension are both 50% off all month long. Go check them out or just go sign up at mapsfitnessproducts.com. Just use the code SEPTEMBER50 without a space in between those, right? So SEPTEMBER50 for that discount. All right, here comes the show. So we actually have people who watch the show on YouTube who think what's gonna happen first is we're gonna have widespread robots on the moon before people own robots on the moon. Whoa, whoa, whoa, widespread robots on the moon. No, that we would be going back and forth to the moon, like people. Oh, okay. So that's what I said and I also said that it was before average people could have robots in their house doing these chores that you talked about. So you're saying, okay, so let's be clear. You think that this is gonna happen first, that people will be going back and forth to the moon and earth like boom, boom, boom. Yeah. Before... I didn't say boom, boom, boom. I'm like, hold on, hold on. That's what I'm saying. Is that like they're gonna teleport boom, boom, boom, boom? Like they'll be tripped. Okay, wait, let's clarify this. Are you talking about like billionaires going to the moon and back where like regular people? I think that, so it's regular people, okay? We'll be able to make a trip to the moon before they have a robot made. Doing all their house chores. No way, no way. The expensive and ridiculous it is to get to the moon. Do you know how expensive and ridiculous it would be to have a robot that could do your dishes? Way cheaper. What? Way cheaper. What planet do you live on? Earth. Bro, you're gonna be on... The Tesla boss coming on next year. Okay, that's where I just, I just, this is where we disagree. Do you have any idea of the physics and fuel and risks involved with landing a person on the moon? Bro, we've already done it. What we haven't done is had a robot come in and do your dishes. Dude, we haven't been back to the moon in forever. You lost the debate, go to YouTube. Actually, here's the deal. Here's the deal. YouTube is spoken. This is the beauty of it. YouTube is spoken. No. Thank you. No, you're all wrong. There was like four loud comments and... No. I read through it. There was like two for Sal and then there's like eight for me. Okay, here's the beauty. That's enough for the win. Eight to two, that's right. Here's the beauty that this is all recorded. Yeah, okay, we'll see. And my bubble will be around in 10 years. We'll see how well it ages because here's what's gonna happen when it happens. Have you seen Boston Dynamics? Dude, I keep posting those. When you're proving wrong. Literally. Here's where I will concede to you. There's a very good chance it's around the same time because I think both of them are further out than what we think.  I'm like, I don't think robots are gonna be... I think we're gonna have... Now, what are you thinking? Are you imagining a humanoid robot in the house like Mrs. Johnson? Thank you, I'll pick up the kids. Like, is that what you think's gonna happen? Well, no, what we talked about was a robot able to handle your house chores and stuff. Like that's what you talked about. So a robot that goes and cleans your house or does your dishes or just one of those things. Just a robot assistant. Yeah, like a robot assistant in your house. Oh yeah, that's happening, it'll happen. Oh, I don't think it's not gonna happen. That'll happen. Just like I don't think it's not gonna happen that people will make trips up to the moon the same way they make trips to Hawaii. Like that's gonna happen. Okay, so here's a scenario. Okay, because people don't realize the risks, the physics and the cost associated with flying, unless they come out with some... I love how you try and make this argument like you have facts to support what you're about to say right now. We do. You don't. You're okay. Hold on a second. Either one of us, at least I'll admit that. I'm not gonna, I have nothing that I can say I for sure can back this up that I'm gonna be right. Here's what I have. My case is that I just don't see it happening for... One accident, flying to the moon destroys that whole market. What are the accidents gonna be at home? My robot broke a couple of dishes. Well, he stabbed my wife. Yeah, and you sleep with it. That's a robot uprising. I gotta play devil's action. The both of you guys here. Yeah, okay. So any household chore, a robot assistant that does any household chore is you're saying it'll happen later or after. Oh, wait. Okay, now you could, because you could say those little, you know... Rubas? Yeah, rubas are that. No, no. I guess a little more than that. So it's like, we already saw it in Iraqi, right? Iraqi four. Oh, right. Remember? Yeah, yeah. And then Pauly changes the voice. Yeah. Hey, it's just gotta be able to do my dishes. Because that in itself would... So a dish doing robot. Yeah. Like do the dishes. Like a washing machine? A dishwasher? No. I kind of have one. No, no, no. This robot has to be able to take it from your dinner plate or dinner table and get it over to the sink, wash it and put it in the dishwasher. Or maybe it hasn't built in. I don't know what it looks like. Bye, Adam. Have a good day. I don't know what it looks like, because I think we're gonna be going to the moon first. That's what I think. So I'll take it a step further. I think it's gonna do your dishes and give you a hand job at the same time before we go to the moon. That's what I thought. Well, that takes way more engineers. You lost. You lost. You two spoke. My right hand washes dishes. My left hand handles you, sir. And then the truth is maybe that it'll be both around the same time. I mean, it's gonna be, they're both... I think they're a ways away, though. Hey, the newspaper article. And the treasure today? No. The headline. Yeah, today's news. We land on the moon and robot does your dishes.  The future is here. Mind pump again. All right, so here's something. I'm gonna tell you guys something that is hilarious because... Give us some real science. I know. I'm gonna do this.  Let's do some... Let's do some... I can't wait.  Hey, guess what happened yesterday, Adam? Robots doing people's dishes. Check back in 10 years. So this is interesting because this highlights the massive mistake that scientists and government officials and all the people who are trying to figure out the obesity epidemic, this highlights the big mistake that they make, right? So there was a study that came out and I'm gonna pull it up for you. The study was done from the Massachusetts General Hospital. Here's a title of this particular study. And this was in Science Daily. By the way, Science Daily's got great science articles and stuff that are always like up to date, right? Reducing sugar in packaged foods can prevent disease in millions. So here's the summary. Cutting 20% of sugar from packaged foods and 40% from beverages could prevent 2.4 million cardiovascular disease events and 750,000 diabetes cases in the US over the lifetime of the adult population. So here's what they did. They took all the numbers, they crunched it and they said, if we cut 20% of sugar from this and 40% of sugar from this, wow, look at all these amazing results that'll happen. So do you guys see any problems with a study?   Here's the deal. What happens when a gambling addict quits gambling? What happens? Oh yeah, he does something else. That's right. And we have plenty of stats to show that. So if you just, if you take that away, the people that have this problem, here's what we talked about. They completely negate human behavior. Well, we've talked about this forever. Exes and O's and it's just that easy. Somebody that is eating themself into obesity, it's not a food labeling thing. It's not a percentage of sugar in it thing. They are medicating in their own way. And they're pursuing taste and flavor and all these types of things. The same way somebody medicates with rolling a dice and can't give up doing that or shooting heroin and if you take the thing they're addicted, you don't address the root cause, they'll just, they'll replace it. Eat something else that's got totally in the calories. And this is, and this is our experience because obviously we've actually worked with real people through this problem. And here's some studies that'll prove exactly what you're saying. Artificial sweeteners have been around for a long time.  Oh my gosh, you can have your sweets, but without calories. This is gonna solve so many problems. This is incredible. And it solved no problems because what people did is they had their sugar-free soda or their sugar-free candy or whatever. And they just replaced those calories with other things. This is why in real world studies, those foods don't work. The only time they actually work is when everything else is controlled so they cut something out but they don't replace it.  So now you're a government official and you want to appear important, right? You want to get your taxpayer money. We're committing 40% of all sugar and packaged food going forward or we're going to tax anything above this. Yeah, here's the study that we're here to save people's lives, that's why we're doing it. This will totally work. Here's the new rules, cut all the sugar and everybody's gonna have, we're gonna solve this problem and then it doesn't work because obviously excess calories is one of the biggest problems. That's the number one thing. And sugar doesn't make as nearly as bad of a difference in your diet if your calories are appropriate. I'm not saying sugar is inert but if your diet's high in sugar but your calories are low, it doesn't do nearly as much damage to you as if your calories are high with a high sugar diet. Is a inert like moot? Is that like the same thing? Yeah, like no effect. Like no effect, right? Like benign? Yeah. I've never heard a inert before. Yeah, so it's, I hope I'm using it right now. It's a chemistry term. You're making me question. I just wanted to know it was new to me. Like I think I've heard it before. Inoculus is another thing you could say, Justin, with the word. I love it. Yeah, so you know what it is? Sometimes I hear a word being used and I use it that same way and then later on I might. You usually use that for like gases, right? Yeah. In chemistry. Oh yeah, very good. That's true. Look at you, guy. I had caffeine today. What did you do? You must have stayed at a holiday in last night. How much caffeine did you have? How much caffeine did you have? A lot. I had a lot. You're just gonna say that was, okay, there's been like handfuls of, handful of mind pump moments that will be forever burned in my brain as like just where I remember like belly laughing. The time when we were at, we were at this event at the Spartan race. We got evented and we were at this private dinner that Joe Desena had put together, right? And there's probably, I don't know, would you say a hundred people in there? Maybe more. Yeah, maybe more. How about it? 200 maybe. Maybe a hundred to 200 people in there. And they're all on these round tables and he had hired like a speaker. It was really, really cool event. And I don't even remember what was said, but the whole room was quiet because somebody was talking and somebody liked to a table to the right of us or something, spoke out loud. Gave an answer. Yeah, gave an answer to something. Oh, that's blah, blah, blah. Yeah, it's just in response with, I know things. And the whole room that why it was so funny was because we don't know who this person is. They probably don't know who we are. It's like our first time in this group and stuff and just the shit's on the person. It was the most nerdy comment ever. The person was just like commenting to prove that like they're smart. Well, I couldn't help it. I belly laugh because I, and I so did Sal because I know that we were all thinking the same thing and you blurted it out. It was like Tourette's for me. So I can't help it. The best part is that nobody, everybody else felt bad. And nobody's, it was- We were dying.  There was like two people laughing. Oh, here are those guys. Here's another great moment. So obviously, since we started the podcast, we talk about that, you know, the fact that we smoke weed sometimes, whatever. And so sometimes one of the podcasters would come meet us.   So this guy shows up, good friend of ours.  What are you, a narc? No! Whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa. He talks like that, dude. You have a mic under there? You know, like, whoa, whoa. No thanks. What kind of drugs are we talking about?  I've never, ever once in my life said that to my friends.  Bro, that's not how you do it. I'm not a big drug person, but if somebody says that to you, it's a cop. That's not a normal person. That's what I've learned from every show. Anyway, dude, you got me to watch the untold story. Oh, good. Caitlyn Jenner. So you started with that one? You haven't watched the other two yet? No. Please, because you like it. I will, but I'll tell you what, dude. Caitlyn Jenner's story is- Really good, huh? So I knew- So glad I watched it. So, you know, before Caitlyn, obviously transition Bruce, right? Bruce Jenner. What a- A stud. A stud. Just phenom. Like one of the most, as I'm watching this, I'm watching it with Jessica, and I have, we have a lot of conversations as we're watching this, it's a very interesting story. As Bruce, right? Or even Caitlyn, whatever. This individual is so gifted as an athlete. Like everything, cause they have all these home videos, right? Of Bruce- That's what made it great, right? They had all these clips from like back then.  Like what?  This is back in the early 60s. This is one of those rare people that can literally decide to do something and be better than everyone else. Absolutely insane. And then the story of how Bruce won the gold medal and broke the world record against, especially against the Soviets was, so I didn't know this. For four years, Bruce was supported by his then wife. This is before he married, what's her name? Kardashian, whatever. Kim's mom, I remember her name. He was married, his wife supported him, and all he did was train. Seven days a week. Never missed a day. Six to eight hours a day. For four years. For four years in order to be this good. Yeah. So crazy. Just buried himself in there. And then the other part is because Caitlyn is so open and talking about the struggles and stuff, obviously, and as a 10-year-old had these issues, right? She said she suffered from gender dysphoria at a very young age.  Right. Even the ex-wife was talking about what a good person they are, and whatever, and the kids love Caitlyn as Jessica and I are watching this. I'm like, man, I really like this individual and how open they are about all this stuff. Yeah, that was interesting. You know, isn't he, Doug, do you know if he was, I think he was a badass downhill skier also? Probably. Yeah, which I was waiting to see clips of that because for some weird reason, this is how little I knew about his story or her story was I thought he won an Olympic gold medal for downhill skiing. So then I see none of that. I'm like, what? I was, I so didn't know. DeCathalon was, yeah, it was DeCathalon, which is like. Insane. Yeah. How many events is that in one? 10. Okay. Yeah. 10 events. Hence DeCathalon. I lost my powers. At the beginning of the podcast, he were like up here. Had to bring me back down to Earth. Yeah. You're only allowed to take Deca when you're in the DeCathalon. No, but tremendous athlete, incredible, I mean physique, you know, Bruce was, but here's the part that was very interesting. Obviously they're interviewing Katelyn and Katelyn says, no, all that credit goes to Bruce. Like Bruce did all that. Like that person that I was accomplished all that and I'd never want to take that away. And then this was the best part.  Like there's way more to my story than all of that. I was very inspirational to watch this. And I couldn't imagine being in that situation in that time. You're talking about the 60s. In 70s, like, wow. They did a really good job.   Cause this is literally their version of like ESPN. Yeah, it feels like ESPN. I thought like they bought it from them or something because it's so similar. I wanted to do a little bit of research and see, so I don't know if you guys know how this is how, 30 for 30s work is and what makes them so great. And I don't know if you know this, Justin, because I know you watch most of the 30s. Yeah, it's not like, normally when you have a show on like any of these services, streaming services, it's like there's a writer or a producer, there's a team that they do, they create all this stuff. But they don't, they do that like by the story. So like a writer, they submit it to two ESPN 30 and they put it. So it's a different producer, it's a different writer, and they take like the best of the best and then they make it on the show. So I wonder if that's what's happening here. Like is it the same person that told the Caitlyn Jenner story that also told the Mouse and the Palace story or they like ESPN where it's a whole different person produced it. I didn't look at the credits. Well, what's interesting about this is and you see this commonality when you learn about any top level, anything in performance, whether it's a sport or business or art or whatever, they're often driven by this, by some kind of dysfunction or some kind of deep insecurity. Because a person who's well adjusted does not eight hours a day go and run on a track. Yeah, unless you're running them, they're escaping or yeah, punishing themselves in some weird way. They only realize it a lot of times. I've met a few athletes like this. This is why I don't get, I've never, I shouldn't say never, but as an adult, I don't get starstruck or I'm not like, I mean. Because they're tormented. Yeah, a lot of times, more often than not, that's the truth. Are there exceptions as always? But all the famous athletes and people that I've been around, when you find out more about their story, a lot of times what made them so great is they were tortured or they're just out of balance that socially and all these other things are terrible, but they are just gifted in this one area and they've poured. And obsessed. Yeah, and obsessed. They poured everything they had into that and then we look at them and the halo effect and we idolize them and go, oh my God. Which is why I never, I always think- You probably don't want to be that person. No, no, they have a lot of other things going on in their life that cause them to be so great. It's rarely somebody who's got great balance in their life. You know who was more, who was super apparent when I saw them speak and it was like an hour and a half long or two hour long podcast was Elon Musk. It came, it was very obvious to me that this is a tormented genius. You could tell he's tormented by his own genius.  I don't remember that. Yeah, his dad used to say stuff to him like that. He was right? It was him or Bezos? No, it was him. It was Elon Musk. Is that right, Doug? Do you know that? Yeah. Yeah, his dad would tell him he wasn't gonna amount to anything and so, yeah, of course, right? So you get someone who's being told by their parent that you're not gonna be much in life and stuff like that. Well, if you're gonna be someone that innovates at that level and does extreme things, that also means you're very different from everybody else, okay? So you're not quote unquote normal and that's hard. We need those people, though. We need those people. We definitely need them. That's what I'm saying, though. Absolutely.  You got a whisker poking out on the side of your beard there, buddy. It's sticking out a little bit. Although, I will say this, your beard looks very nice. Vicki did a very good job on shaping it up. Oh, it's so good to have you. Yeah, we're finally lined up again. It's so good to have you back. Yeah, I know. All of us were looking pretty scraggly.   Especially when it comes down here. My beard, when it does it, it gets really... Yeah, you got a healthy beard, bro. Not cool. I like to see Justin grow his out, though. I feel like he's got... I mean, I don't want to be too stereotypical mountain guy. I'm already there to begin with, so... That's true. That's true. Speaking of stereotypical and that stuff, did you guys see, I think it's Bud Light. Did you guys see their new flavor? I'm gonna pull it up just to make sure I get this right. Well, I know they're doing the whole Seltzer thing. Bud Light Seltzer. So you want to hear the one that they're launching that's coming out here? Flavors? Yeah, just the flavor. One flavor, let's just guess. What one flavor is coming out that is... I'll give you a hint. You're probably, if you drink this, you're probably gonna want to wear a pair of Uggs when you drink this. Oh, is it gonna do pumpkin spice? Pumpkin spice Bud Light Seltzer. Gross. Interesting. Interesting. That sounds horrible. I know, right. Speaking of weird stuff, it sounds horrible. I'm gonna cash in on this. You know what? Dana White is doing this thing now, where he eats something every, I think, Friday or something and he records it and the chef makes them or he hears about it. Yeah, I've seen so many videos. Have you ever seen him do that? Okay, so I catch it when it hums up in my feet all the time, just curious what it is and I like to hear if it's good or not. So he was having this ice cream that supposedly all these people told me has to try. It's this famous ice cream, hard to get supposedly, and it's macaroni and cheese flavored ice cream. That doesn't sound good at all. He said, that's exactly what he said before. He says, this sounds disgusting, but he goes, I love macaroni and cheese. I love ice cream. I would have never think that together I would like it.  Sometimes things, so that happens a lot often where you think two things don't go together and then you have them, like when I was a kid and we visited Italy, my family, my grandmother made some corn on the cob. They don't put butter on their corn in Italy. So my grandma brings out the corn on the cob and we have like 15 different courses. Put on it. Salt. That's it. Like put a little salt on it and you're good. Oh yeah, that's not weird. They don't put butter. Oh, well, that's not weird. No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, hold on a second. This is what was weird. Wendy's, you know those Frosties putting french fries. That's weird. No, no, here's what's weird. I asked my grandmother for butter. Everybody looked like I had four heads. Then when I put it on my corn, everybody was grossed out. Oh, that's disgusting. Oh, because you put butter on it? Because I put butter on corn. And then they tried it and it was like really good. The other thing was ranch on pizza. Ranch on pizza, if you've never had it, sounds weird. It's amazing. It's actually very delicious. Yeah, I introduced that. I liked it so much that I used to drizzle it on my spaghetti because that's so good. Oh God, dude. That's so good. Oh my heart right now. Yes. You know what happened? That was like that was a magical mistake. What kind of spaghetti?  But it's way worse for you, right? So she made ranch salad and we had spaghetti and it mixed and it was just, oh my God, I would have never thought. And then forever after that, as a kid, I would get it. Do you see a tear down there?  It is interesting. Like a tear coming down my eye right now when I hear that. Is this real spaghetti or is it canned spaghetti? What, you mean the sauce? Like is it Chef Boyardee or? Well, it's not Chef Boyardee, but I mean, I mean my mom used to boil the noodles and then I don't know what tomato sauce she was. Prego. Prego. Yeah, probably. Probably Prego. I didn't have an Italian friend that was squashing tomatoes in his garage for me. He's gonna make me feel bad now. Yeah, that wasn't a family tradition, unfortunately. It was either food stamps, bro. It was either, oh, whatever you're gonna say. Now I feel terrible. He's like, listen, it was either that or electricity, so we ate the fun. Exactly. Now I feel terrible. Except you had horses, so now I'm not so upset about that. You guys actually could buy it. We always forget about that. Yeah, I could buy a horse. Okay, so this is week two of Max going to school.    So he had his first week, Monday was hard, Tuesday was pretty good, Wednesday was great, and then he had Thursday, Friday, Saturday, Sunday off, and so Monday rolls around and he's gotta go, this is his first week back going, and now he knows, she's like, okay, it's time for school, and she goes, he starts crying, he doesn't wanna go, and so she's like, oh my God, what should I do? She's like, no, I know he'll have fun, I just gotta get him there, and so she says that, I've gotta get him to think, I get emotional just thinking about what she had to go through to watch this. I would break down if I saw my son do this.  Because he knows he has to. Yeah, and he grabs his lunch pill, and she goes, and then he did this thing I've never seen him do right before we walk in, I think he doesn't want the kids to see he's crying, so he wipes his tears with his shirt, and he still goes, I'm like, oh my God, tearing my heart out, dude, I don't know. I told her, I said, honestly, hon, you get whatever you want for this, because I would just break, there's no way I could do that. I can't do it. If I saw my son do that, she said that, and every time, it's really tough to break away, and then 10, 15 minutes later, she's like, that's the only reason why I can power through. She goes, otherwise, I would break down every time, but because I know that in 10, 15 minutes when I'm gone, he's playing or having a good time, but that initial drop off and leave.  I remember one time, my daughter, I think she was in first grade or something like that, and I picked her up, and she was just really quiet, and like, what's the matter, honey, and whatever, and we're talking, and she's like, today the, you know, so-and-so, so-and-so-and-so, like three girls, she goes, they all told me they weren't gonna be my friend, and so I'm like.  Oh, yeah, and I'm like. That's so brutal. Yeah, because well, I mean that's, little girls will do that. Yeah. Like one of them doesn't like you, and they'll convince the other one. Did they all shun you? Me either. So she was by herself. She's like, oh, I was playing by myself, and none of them wanna be my friends. Of course, you know, two days later, they were all good, cause they made up, but man, as a dad, I'm like, what do I do? Do I like, terrify these kids? Like.  Ooh. Play with them. Like my daughter. Yeah. I'm gonna hide under your bed. Yeah, exactly. It was terrifying, anyway.   None of it's true. In fact, the average entrepreneur starts their first business in their 40s. Some of the greatest inventions were started, or breakthroughs happened from people in their 50s and 60s. Anyway, study comes out where they tested brain, like basically production. Like, so your ability to produce certain things, your how you think, are you better or worse at certain things?  So here's what the study- I imagine it's got like a peak though, right? There's gotta be a place where it kind of peaks and then starts to decline. Well, so here's what they found, okay? Now, these are healthy people, obviously. If you're not healthy. Right, of course.  But here's what they found. So it's hundreds of older people found that two key brain functions actually get better from your 50s on. So they include attending to new information and focusing on what's important in a given situation. Attending to new information, meaning that like you stick like a 50 year old in a college course, they should be able to retain that information. Picking what's important to stick to, and applying it. So decision-making, self-control. That's wisdom. Yes. I mean, that's really what you build yourself up to, is you kind of filter through a lot of information. You distill all the fluff and you go like, oh, that's the meat right there. I don't remember. Like this is, oh, this is the importance. Well, so you know what's crazy about this, because obviously as kids, media, commercials, TV, you grow up thinking like older people don't know much. And by the way, this is a relatively modern phenomena for most of the- It's because it all depends commercials.  Most old cultures revere older people. Like if you go to any old, any culture that's been around for a long time, you find that they revere older people, they respect them, their wisdom, their words, all that stuff, okay. So as I got older and started training people in advanced age, one of the reasons why I love training them so much was their advice and their wisdom was just their life experience. Oh, it was- Do you think some of that has to do with young kids like idolize new information? Like if it's something new that came out or they just learned something new and then they get so attached? Because how many times have you heard a young mind talking to somebody who's much older and wiser and they're, oh, you have no idea what you're talking about? This just came out, this and that. And then the old wise person goes like, listen. And the 60s- You've seen multiple versions of this. And the 80s, this happened. This is not the first time that we've seen something like this. It's all repeated formulas. So right, so I mean, do you think that has a lot to do with it? Totally.  Yeah, like the term boomers.  Like my son will say that to me sometimes. I'm like, you have no idea. I'm not a boomer, which is ridiculous, but you have no idea. You know what I think about? I think about myself now at my age. And then I think just 10 years ago, just 10 years ago, how much more I know about things. And now it makes me realize that I'm nowhere near where I'm gonna be in another 10 years. So you start to talk to, now this isn't true for all people who are older than you, of course. But oftentimes you talk to people who are 60, 70, 80, 90. Like I sit down with my grandparents and you ask them about certain things and they've been on earth more than twice as long as you. They probably know some stuff that you don't know. And so it's a good idea to take their advice. So it's very interesting to see a study actually show, like measure, like these things actually improve with age. Kind of cool, you know, to look forward to, you know, like Doug, that's why Doug's opinions are so important. So sharp.  So he knows lots of things from back in the day. Hey, Justin, did you see the, did you see the high school that got in trouble for like falsifying their records or something like that so they could get on ESPN? That was trending right now. Bishop, I forget the name of the school. I had it written down, but yeah, somebody sent that, I think Marlon actually sent me that article. They, a lot of the guys on the team were actually in Juco. And they actually, they like formed this fake high school in order to get on some kind of like ESPN sponsored event where it's gonna be on national TV, national TV. And the whole high school is fake.  Oh, the whole high school is even fake? Yes. Oh, I didn't know that. Yeah, they showed the location and it was just some random building. And so anyway, there's like a lot coming out. There's still learning information on it, but everybody's like, there needs to be a documentary on this.   Right. And the reason why they found out were because they got skunked like 58 to zero and they were like, this team with supposedly all these act, they were making claims that they have like four athletes that are gonna go pro. Bishop Sycamore. And it's a made up, it's a made up school completely. Yeah, made up.  Made up high school. I didn't even realize that.  Oh yeah. Also like, sign me up, man.  That'd be fun. Let's make up, hey, let's make up our own high school. Yeah, right? Yeah.  Did you, now I sent you guys over the, I think it was ESPN that did a post on Jake Paul, supposedly retiring from boxing already. I saw that. He said that. I don't, it was on the score. It was, yeah, it was on score and ESPN. So they put it out there. I right away started to try and fact check. I mean, I imagine if ESPN and score put it out, it's, I would think that it's somewhat legit. Right. And so, but I started looking for, I went on his page, I started, I was Googling, looking to see for statements from him. I couldn't find it to verify that.  He did. And after the fight, when they were, they were talking to each other and Woodley was trying to, let's go again, let's go again. And he was real hesitant. And I think he was real hesitant because I think that was close for him. Now, of course, the card showed that he won, you know, but it was a split decision. And I think he got rocked. And I think he got real close to potentially losing that fight. Or this media genius, which he's turning out to be, this is part of his like hyping up the next. I wouldn't, I wouldn't argue that. This may be the last fight that he does. He almost retired.  Please don't retire, you're undefeated. We need to see more of you. Yes. Think about it. This kid so far has really squeezed out every bit of juice out of this lemon. And he's going to keep doing it. And it's really, It's a valid theory cell. Totally. Totally. I mean, he's, isn't he, it was a him or his brother that would, that was like filming themselves, taunting the other fighter, like just show, like who was it then that was doing that?  Well, uh, when he was trying to get Conor McGregor to sign on, like he harassed him and then his trainer. And then I think that was the next one. He was looking at. He's on his list. That's the one of the guy, I can't think of that kid's name right now. By the way, that guy's blown up to like over a million followers himself. His coach. Conor McGregor's boxing coach. I believe it's his boxing coach. I think it's his, or Jiu-Jitsu. Or Jiu-Jitsu coach. Is it Jiu-Jitsu? Oh, okay. It's, I, it's one of his coaches and Dylan, something. Dylan, Dylan, Dylan, something. Maybe Andrew can help me out here. Yeah. Dylan Davis, Dylan. What's the matter, Dylan? Pushing too many pencils. What's the matter? What movie's that from? Yeah. But he's been trolling Jake like crazy now ever since then. Like I looked, I went on his Instagram the other day and like, I would say the last, you know, 12, the last 15 posts is like jabs at Jake Paul. You know what? Everybody wants, everybody wants to make the money. Yeah. Like I'll get in the ring with Jake Paul too. You know what I'm saying? I'm gonna make a million, million to $10 million. Like these guys are making so much money off of me. You know what?  This highlights the difference between swinging and throwing punches. Dylan Davis. Dylan Davis. That's close. This highlights the difference between standing up and trying to throw punches with someone and getting on the ground and trying to out grapple them because he would never, in a million years when a grappling match against a normal decent Jiu-Jitsu guy because on the ground, there is no lucky submission. Yeah.   And that was highlighted in this fight. I think Woodley actually almost had a chance just because he's got decent hands, he's smart, like he had a game plan, like he came in shape and he gave him a run for his money. Let me take it a step further. However good Woodley is at boxing, you take an equivalent Jiu-Jitsu guys, however good Woodley's in boxing, you get a Jiu-Jitsu, and the Jiu-Jitsu guy would school Paul on the ground all day long because on the ground, you are like, you can be a lion, but you're in the ocean, you don't know how to swim, and these guys are gonna, and I've seen it.  But I think that translates even to boxing. I think that he's in a whole nother, he's real boxers that have been boxing for 10, 15, 20 years of their life.  Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. They're not, and that was, that's what I saw from this fight.    I feel like somebody is gonna create, like, a league that is specific to these types of fights. I feel like that's the move, or someone like Showtime has like real fights and then Undercard always has like one of these, because that's a pretty smart move right there. It's like, Japan would be smart. Japan's already shown that that market works. So Japan has, yeah, they've had a lot of these weird exhibition matches. The mismatch kind of fights. Yeah.  There was so many mismatches in the beginning because they were like kind of sorting it out, like, which style is gonna win out over this? When's the last time you guys watched some of those original UFC's? The original cage fighting? Dude, it's so awesome. Oh, bro. There was, I can't remember his name. Damn it. I can't remember his name. Black dude, big muscles. Yeah. He was an arm wrestling champion. His first, I know exactly who you're talking about. You know what I'm talking about, right? And then he got like really his punch drunk later on. But anyway, I can't remember his name, but his first fight, he comes out and the guy tries to take him down and he gets him in this weird crucifix position. So he's underneath the guy.  He's sitting there for a second. Is it Bob's something? No, not Bob's sap. Not Bob's sap. I'll figure it out. Okay.  And it was like, I couldn't believe how brutal it was. I'll remember his name. I know who you're talking about. I can't think of his name though. Yeah. Brutal. Brutal. Yeah, that's the Ken Shamrock, Frank Shamrock days, the Beast. Oh yeah, back in those days. Oh my God. Those are good. Anyway, so I'm excited for dinner time. Are you guys doing the pork chops yet from Butcher Box? Have you guys had those yet? Every time. I know. I'm so annoyed with you both. You know what it is? Cause I'm so bad about, I have my box set, dude. It's set on things that I eat the most. I'm telling you right now. I've been eating all of their bacon. I'll do it though. Pork chops, they're like this big. They have a nice layer of fat on them. And what Jessica does is she, she takes butter. Do you do like a maple glaze? Oh, okay. Yeah, yeah, maple glaze. Oh, whatever. You know, but she does butter and a couple of the things. She makes it and then she sears it in like a cast iron, puts it in the oven. And then you put this. Oh my God. It's like that, huh? It's so... She doesn't cook it on the cast iron the whole time. She just sears and then bakes. Maybe she does keep it in there. Cause I bet you wouldn't have to cook it very long on the cast iron. They're like that big. Oh, they're like that thick?  And they're incredible. And I'm not a pork guy. Well, I mean, that was the thing I didn't realize was the difference of the heritage pork. I just assumed because it was healthier that it wouldn't taste as fatty and as good as like, if it was grain fed and stuff like that, like comparing the meat. The normal pork is bland compared to... I mean, I noticed it just in the bacon. I told you guys that the last time we had a butcher box commercial, I was talking about how we had one weekend when we had bacon and I didn't say nothing about it. I didn't think about it. And then the next week in Katrina May again, I'm like, why is the bacon so good today? And she's like, that's because this is butcher box. I'm like, damn, I don't realize it until you do something like that where you compare them back to back. Oh, I dare anybody watching this compare it. It's way more flavorful.  Speaking of sponsors, Felix Gray, right? Another company we work with, they make blue light blocking glasses. They came out with a new type of lens for kids. Was it? Oh, was it for just kids? It was for everybody. It's for everybody, yes. Cause I thought you would jump all over cause you used to talk about the amber. Cause we used to talk about it just being clear which they've had forever, which was great because you know, so they have the amber version now which is just slightly sort of colored but it's not like the super orange. Like basically what it is, is it's stronger. Stronger, probably more for nighttime usage. Yeah, but I don't know about you guys, but I, so I have the daytime and nighttime ones and I can tell a significant difference between the daytime and the nighttime. Oh yeah, you get tired. Like, yeah, that's exactly. So what I'll do if I'm like, if I am working, but I'm on my computer on my phone and sun is down and I don't want to go to sleep and I want to stay up and I want to work and I don't need to go to bed earlier, some of that. I'll put the daytime ones on. And I, and what I feel like what it does is the phone or the computer, it doesn't over stimulate me. It just feels like I'm not on the computer. Yeah, so you don't get the headaches. You don't get the, you know. Right, you feel totally fine. And then when I want to go to bed, I easily go right to sleep and I have no problem. If I put the nighttime ones on at night, like on the 30 minutes, I'm yawning. Like I'll be on the computer and I'm like, I'm totally falling asleep. So I already noticed a huge difference. So you're trying to tell me that these amber ones are going to be like another level of the night. Stronger, yeah. Yeah, even stronger. And by the way, if you've never tried this before, you don't even have to, you can test this out without glasses.  Just that orange glow. It just, your brain. I feel like it shuts off. This reminds me though of one of those things that's really hard. It's like when you were the client and you're trying to teach them to be able to look at other things besides the scale and their reflection. They don't pay attention. They don't. So it's one of those things I feel like you have to do for a while to really start to connect the dots because you're just not used to paying attention. So how many people really pay attention to their nighttime routine before they go to bed?  I didn't know anything. It's like, well, first of all, you probably have never even been paying attention. So you have to start with that. So I feel like you have to first pay, start paying attention to your patterns and your behaviors and your sleep and things like that first to get an idea of, okay, this is how long it takes me to fall asleep. This is how rested I feel when I get up. Like, oh, if I get on the computer or the phone and it's nine o'clock at night, what does that do for falling asleep? You got to start to like really watch that stuff. Then you do something and you introduce those glasses. And then I feel like it's very obvious. I have to teach clients to do that. So I have to credit my wife because she did this anyway without glasses. She's very much like at a certain time, we dim the lights. We start to talk quieter.   But now that we've been together for a while, I notice a huge difference.  Everybody's yelling, it's nine, 10 o'clock at night. And I'm like, oh, I can feel that this is not right. I'm supposed to settle myself down. So you go into my house and past 7 p.m., 6 p.m., 7 p.m., the lights are dim, everything gets darker. We talk a little softer. And it makes a tremendous difference in your sleep quality.  No, I notice that too. Hey, real quick, I hope you're enjoying this episode. So head over to mindpumpstore.com. These are the final hours for our Labor Day sale and everything, including apparel and equipment, 20 to 50% off while supplies laugh. So that's mindpumpstore.com. Again, it's the final hours. All right, enjoy the rest of this show. First question is from ZW Spivey. What is the best way to increase grip strength? Mm, grip strength. We get a lot of questions on grip strength. And I do, and I made this comment before, but I do think it's important. Did you do a YouTube video on this? I did, and I put some like forearm developing exercises on there, but here's something, this is something that's very important to consider, okay? Your hands literally connect you to everything that you're doing. And we evolve to have very intricate fingers like we can place them well, but also strong hands.  What's happened is we barely ever use our hands. In fact, there was a study done with college-aged males. They tested their grip strength, and it was recent. It was like within the last five years. And they found that their grip strength was as good as a 60-year-old's in the 1980s. Like, we just don't do anything with our hands. And now this has far-reaching effects on the body. It affects the way that your shoulders move. Of course, it affects your workouts. It affects wrist health. And so it's definitely something that's important to focus on.  One of the best things you could do to improve your grip strength is to do a little bit of grip work every single day. So this is an old exercise device. It's probably one of the first pieces of exercise equipment that was ever sold. It's those old-school hand grippers that you can, you know, a spring-loaded one. A spring-loaded one. And now, careful, because you can overdo this, but literally, at your desk, have it there, and every hour, you know, mess around with it for five minutes and then put it down. That's it. And don't go to failure.  Well, I mean, what are your guys' thoughts, because this person, the rest of the question, Doug didn't say, was struggling with grip on progressing on barbell rows.  Well, they'll have to use way less weight because that makes it harder. Initially, yes. I think they, I mean, they could just focus on the regular bar to get their hands stronger.  Or farmer carries, you know, doing things like that to do it. I mean, I like the squeezing and contracting, and I think that's gonna help, but I feel like something that is more closely related to what they are trying to, trying. It's for barbell rows, right? So doing anything but that is gonna not give you as good of an adaptation as doing that exercise.  Here's an old school exercise. This is back when newspapers existed. So you might be able to use something else, but you take a big sheet of newspaper. I guess you could do this with butcher paper. And with one hand, you start at the corner, and you crumple it up little by little until you get the whole thing into a ball. It's actually a very good hand exercise. And then in the gym, of course, you can hold on to things for time. That's more of an isometric thing. But don't forget that because it's isometric, the strength tends to be, I mean, it definitely radiates out, but most of the strength is in that position, right? So work on gripping things that are fatter, like you said, fat grips, or pinch grip, so you can hold plates with your hands like this, like this, one finger at a time, if you really want to get crazy. Well, that's why I like going this direction because it's an isometric contraction problem here. If you're doing barbell rows and you can't hold on to the barbell, it's you being able to hold on that. Your hands are in isometric position. You're rowing, okay? So the rest of your body's not, but your hands are. And so doing things in the, so hangs, hanging with your body weight on a pull-up bar, I think would help. I think the fat grips on the barbell would work. And then of course, just getting good at. Frequency and volume of holding heavy things. I mean, it's like to your point of farmer walks, that was a big game changer for me, just holding weight for longer periods of time. Because in two, you don't really realize that you're holding it for a longer period of time. You're just trying to get to, you know, so many yards of carrying these objects. So at least it takes kind of the focus away from it.   And if that's really a focus of yours, you know, expose like just more dexterity and more function out of your fingers, which then helps with the overall hand strength, which then, you know, goes up to your grip and your wrist strength and everything else. It's just a matter of like, contracting and moving your fingers and your hands and picking things up. Yeah. And of course the forearm, you know, flexors and extenders are kind of connected to that, right? So there's exercises that'll flex, extend, but then don't forget lateral. A lot of people forget that this also is important. Fly fishing right there. Yeah. So I'll, I'll, I used to get a, like a dumbbell, like you know the ones that you can load with weight, the old school ones. So you can load weight or whatever. And I would hold one end and I would load it with a tiny bit of weight on one end. So it was offset. And then I do this exercise here or hold a bit here and go in this direction. It's good for that with Indian clubs. Indian. I'll do that sometimes too, just because you have like that long lever to account for. Yeah. That being said, all these exercises we're talking about right now, like for forearms and trying to develop for your grip strength, the greatest gains I ever had on my grip strength came way later when I started just heavy ass deadlifting and farmer carries. Like I, and I had done, I've like, I remember risk curls and reverse risk curls and doing all this, you know, all the different moves to develop my forearms to try and work on my grip strength. Nothing gave me better grip strength than actually just getting stronger at deadlifting, stronger at farmer carries. That brought it up more than anything else. And in a stronger grip for people listening or watching who are like, I'm okay, right? Like what's the benefit?  So they find, for example, that wearing wrist straps, which tends to make us use a weaker grip, changes the activation up in the neck and in the shoulder. So having a stronger grip, even on presses, even exercise, you don't think you need to have a strong grip. When your grip is like, try this, next time you bench press, try putting wrist support on and wrist wraps on around the bar and all of a sudden you can lift more weight. Like how is that possible? It's simulating a stronger grip. So strengthen your grip and don't be surprised if you don't see all your lifts improve as a result. Next question is from Sarah Holly MN. I sweat a lot during a workout, others not so much. Why is that? Is my body more efficient at cooling down or why am I prone to sweating so much? Yeah, a lot of people connect sweating a lot with a good workout.  This is mostly a genetic thing. It doesn't mean that you can't be an indicator that maybe you're working harder than you've compared yourself. Have you guys had a client like that that just profusely sweat and they would apologize all the time? I've had both extremes. I've had one where they're like that, like a puddle underneath them. And then I've had others where I could destroy him or her and they just barely, like one little sweat bead. Yeah, like not at all. So it's mostly genetic. I actually trained somebody that didn't sweat and I don't mean like, oh, I don't sweat. Like they literally had a medical condition where they didn't sweat and we had to be, I had to work closely with their doctor. They can't get them too hot. No, it's actually quite dangerous. And so I had to work with their doctor and talk about how to train them and the workouts were, they had to be very careful because they didn't sweat, their body could overheat very quickly and they could develop problems. Are you familiar with any research that shows that there's any benefits to somebody who does sweat really well other than what you're talking about, right? As far as danger? Yeah, actually. So the heating up of the body and your body cooling itself off with sweat is a good indicator that you're hydrated. And also exercises for lack of a better term, the muscle of your body dealing with changes in temperature. So it's like, why you get benefited going to the sauna, right? It's your body acclimating to temperature. And so if you use a sauna regularly, you'll find that your heat tolerance improves over time. One of the things I used to tell my clients when I would notice they weren't sweating as much and this is good for trainers, you'll see your clients sweating weird. And what I mean by that is they're dry everywhere except they sweat in one spot. Sometimes that means they need water. So their body is, they're not hydrated, they're not drinking enough water and so they have these kind of patches of sweat. Oh, interesting, that's what that means. Sometimes. So what I would do with these clients is I would say, oh, you need to drink more water, then they drink more water and they feel a lot better and then I would notice more uniform sweat. What is that? Is that because that's the only place the body's found water and so it's... It's like conserving from that one. It's like the most important place that they need to sort of cool down. Yeah, your body's conserving this fluid and so it's like, okay, we can't sweat everywhere. Oh, interesting. Yeah, so I would increase their water intake and they would notice improvements in performance. But that being said, if let's say you're well hydrated, you have a good diet, your workout programming is good, sweat a lot, not sweat a lot, doesn't really mean much at all. I mean, when I'm doing a strength-focused workout with long rest periods, I'm not sweating that much. When I'm doing supersets, I sweat a lot, both are effective. I don't sweat very often, yeah. Unless it is, it's a very high-intensity cardio-based workout. Otherwise, any strength, I barely sweat. Oh, I sweat pretty easy. I have to do a very low-volume, slow, long rest period type of workout to not sweat. Is that why you shower all the time? Yeah, yeah, no, that's why. That's why it's hard for me to train hard in the morning here and then podcast, because I don't... You just continue sweating? Yeah, well, yeah, I'm hot and then I'm all sticky and I don't like that. Next question is from one grumpy economist. What is more taxing on the nervous system? High reps with lower weight or low reps with higher weight? Oh, this is a good question. Yeah, this is good. This is a really good question. Because it depends as you do. It does, right, on the total volume, but I have to say, if we have to pick one... Heavyweight, yeah. You know what, that can be true sometimes, but think about it, like, what would hammer you more, like, you know, a set of max-out single or one set of like 30 reps on a squat? Are we talking about the feeling of being fried like after you're done? Yeah, yeah. Because high reps will do that to you, won't it? Yeah, I mean, yeah, after you're done with the amount of voice, sometimes I just want to go take a nap because it just, you know, depending on how much you did, it's like, whoa, it adds up later. Well, you could also make the case that it's going to be most taxing on the one that you don't do. Yeah, yeah. So if you're, because I've met... You're super conditioned for high reps. Yeah, I've met, I've had clients who are the, you know, CrossFit or the Orange Theory, Circuit, and then I could superset them, no rest periods for a whole hour, and they feel fully adapted to that.  So it really has to do with what you're already adapted to really well. And then that's, then the opposite is probably going to be more taxing on the CNS. Because your CNS adapts also. Yes. So if you, whatever you're doing, and if you're getting good and efficient at it, it's not going to be so taxing on the body when you do it again versus doing something that is totally different than what you ever do. So it's going to tax the CNS. You know I used to lift in really heavy weight. Yeah, that's going to be real demanding. Like you're going to need to allocate a lot of energy in that direction. I think intensity makes a big difference here. Like I can do low reps at moderate intensity and I could do higher reps at moderate intensity. And either one of them will tax me. If I do either one to failure, there's a huge difference in how my body feels. But I completely agree. It depends on which one you're used to and you move away from what you're used to. And it's very taxing on the body. Your body's just not used to those types of reps. Which is why when you transition like that, this goes back to the thing I was always talking about doing as little as possible to elicit the most amount of change. It's like, if you make a switch from one modality to another, that's when you've got to scale way back. You can't take the same approach. If you've been training circuit training hardcore for six months, years, and you're really good at it. And then you've got to, and so you can bring it to that workout. And then now all of a sudden you start doing five by five type of blocks, strength training. You lower the intensity.  You can't take that same mindset now that you've adapted to that way of training and the reverse is true. Yeah, well I noticed this too, even just like moving recently, right? So I'm doing a lot of like awkward, heavy objects, but lots of isometric contraction for longer periods of time. And it was just like my whole body was just like, Okay, we're done. Tax your CNS, right? Yeah, I have not done that. It's not heavier weight than you've ever dealt before. You left heavier weight inside the gym, but it's so different to the body and you probably were doing it for an hour or two hours and your body said. Take a professional mover who moves people's houses for a living. Does can do three houses back to back. Does it break a sweat? Yeah, that's a piece of cake. This is no problem. Yeah, that makes it a huge difference. This is why I know there's a lot of ways to measure heart rate variability and this and that. I think really just you have to kind of be in touch with your body and understand how your body feels. And I can tell when I do a workout, usually after, usually after the workouts done, sometimes while I'm doing it, like, oh, that was, I went a little too hard and it could be heavy, could be light. It depends on how I felt that day or whatever. So that's what's really important is pay attention to those signs. Like, do I feel fried after my workout? Do I feel scatterbrained? Am I exhausted or do I have energy? Am I feeling stiff or do I feel loose? Do I have lots of inflammation? And then the next workout, do I feel like, wow, I'm weaker. Wow, I don't have as much stamina. Like those are all signs that whatever you did was probably too much. Next question is from Liam McCurkbride. What is the most effective way to bulk? And should I track macros or be intuitive? You know, here's the thing with intuitive eating, right?  You're eating kind of what your body needs at any given moment. The direction intuitive eating will bring you is balance.  You wanna go outside of that, right?  It's not intuitive. There's nothing intuitive about pushing my body to gain 15 pounds of mass or to get down to 4% body fat. It's just, it's not intuitive because your body is always trying to be healthy. And if you're intuitive about it, you're gonna be healthy. You push outside of that, you're probably gonna have to track. I know I do. When I'm trying to bulk, I have to track because if I do it intuitive, it ain't gonna happen. You can only be intuitive if you've had the history of putting the reps in first and the training behind that. So that's always like, you gotta track to even know what that looks like. Otherwise it's just a guessing game. So there's nothing, it's not necessarily intuitive. It's just that you're kind of like guessing and feeling your body's signals which can totally be misleading. Whereas tracking, like at least to understand where your maintenance is. I think that's the very first thing. I remember being so challenged answering this question because when we wrote the intuitive guide, we got a bunch of this. Cause we were promoting that. I mean, ideally I think that that's the place to be. Like you wanna get there. I think for when we talk about general health, longevity, right? Yeah, sustainability. Yeah, we've talked about like that is the place to get. Like you wanna get to a place of intuitive eating, intuitive training to where it's not this big stress or something you have to think about all the time in order to do it. But the truth is if you have very specific goals, like even as long as we've been training, I don't eat intuitively. If I really care about adding 10 pounds of muscle or shredding 10 pounds of fat and I wanna do it as fast and as efficient as possible, I'm tracking still today. Now, does that mean that I couldn't do it intuitively and maybe slowly get there? Well, yeah, I could probably do that. I can intuitive. I think you'd be able to do it to get down to 5% though. No, you're right. Because it just- Intuitive is your body saying no. Yeah, well the more extreme the goal is, the more important it becomes to be diligent about your tracking because there's less room for air as you scale up or down. Yeah, intuitive could take you from inactive to fit or obese to relatively lean, right? Intuitive is home base. This is your home base. Now, if your home base is healthy and balanced and you're fit and you can move and you feel good generally and then you wanna move away from home base and go extreme, extreme is not healthy. It just isn't.  It's fun and I think that there's something to it with quality of life on that stuff, but we'd be lying to ourselves if we said that that was about longevity. Same thing with getting super shredded, like is getting down to single digit body fat percentage, is that good for longevity? No, no, longevity is higher than that, right? It's not super high, but it's higher than that. Getting super, you get on stage and you compete. There's nothing, that doesn't promote longevity. It just looks super shredded. So if you're trying to do it in an intuitive way and you're really intuitive about it and you're honest, your body is saying, no, I don't wanna keep eating 3,500 calories a day or no, I don't wanna get down to that leanness.  And I know there's definitely people right now that are listening like, oh, I have no problem, I eat intuitively and I'm shredded or I can do this.  I mean, when you get to a certain level of training, dieting for so long, you get pretty good at being able to adjust a few things to get your body to respond in the direction that you want to go. I wanna add a few pounds of muscle. I know there's a few things I can do right now that will instantly do that for me. And the same thing goes for going the opposite direction. So it doesn't mean that there's not people that can't move their body weight up or down or get really shredded and lean or get really buff from intuitive eating. It's just, it's way more difficult for the average person. And if you really have a very specific goal and you also wanna do it as quick and as efficient as possible, you just gotta track. Now to answer the part of the question that's like, what's the most effective way to bulk? Figure out your maintenance calories. So whatever you need to eat to not gain weight and to not lose weight, add about five to 700 calories to that depending on how your body responds. Make sure you eat about, you know, generally one gram of protein per pound of body weight. And depending on your gut health and how you feel, you don't wanna go too low carb. And that's it. And that'll be the most effective way, right? You could go a thousand calories or 1500 calories over maintenance. You'll gain more weight, but it won't be more muscle. In my experience, it's about five to 700 over is kind of the magic sweet spot for most people. And then here's the other part of this. If you have a workout that's not stimulating muscle growth, then it's not gonna work. You're just gonna gain body fat. So if you send the right signal, bulking is actually easy.  So make sure your workout is really effective, really well programmed. And then you add 500 calories to your maintenance and you'll see muscle. My favorite thing to do as far as the workout being effective is when you make this mental decision that I'm gonna switch to a bulk, like the advice I give to clients is this is where I have them switch to another maps program. So whatever they're currently following, it doesn't matter where they're at and I normally will go, okay, we are gonna add 500, 700 calories and now we're also gonna transition into a different program. A whole new stimulus. Absolutely. Look, if you like our information, head over to mindpumpfree.com. We have lots of free guides that can help you build muscle, burn body fat, improve your health and your athletic performance. We even have guides for pain. So that's mindpumpfree.com. You can also find all of us on Instagram. So you can find Justin at Mind Pump Justin. You can find myself at Mind Pump Sal and Adam at Mind Pump Adam.


Um, yes, so let's start a few words about me. I'm a golden developer and tech lead at Convert. We mainly dealing with Kubernetes and cloud native staff. We're building a platform for AI and machine learning on top of the Kubernetes. I'm a husband and father to kids. And finally I am at the middle of my skipper course and I actually I'm at the end and I'm really excited about this. And, uh, so what is talk about a, we will talk a bit about containers and device sharing. Um, and then how these works in Kubernetes, how the Kubernetes manage resources and how Kubernetes manage these resources. Um, what are the production great challenges? And finally we will talk about meta GPU, which is our open source project. Um, yeah. So, uh, let's start. Um, so let's talk a bit about how we going, how we can share device on Linux. And if I will take a simple example where I am creating simple loopback file and I would like to share this a loopback file, like I would like to mount it. Um, and I would like to mount between. I would like to use it between many different processes, right? So, um, I will be able to mount it as read only, uh, as much as I want, right? But if I will try to mount it as a read write, it will fail. Now this pretty obvious, uh, a pretty obvious example, which can, uh, teach us one simple fact. Sharing devices between processes on Linux will be depends on two things basically on the device driver and on the setup on the configuration. So in, in some cases I will be able to share device and another, um, case I want, I might be not be able to share this device. So with that, let's move to the, um, second, second simple, uh, question. And we are talking about Kubernetes and AI and GPUs. So, uh, how easily I can share GPU device between two Docker containers? What do you think, guys? Is, is, if, like, how easily I can share my GPU device? Um, so I think the most simple thing that we can do is just figure it out, right? So I have very simple TensorFlow script and this TensorFlow script uses, um, uh, GPU, GPU index zero. And I would like to run two Docker containers and see if they both will be running and if they both will be used this, uh, GPU. So let me show you really quickly. Uh, this is my bar script. This is my two, uh, containers and I will just execute this script and my two containers are up and running if I will check logs. And this, so this is, uh, GPU, uh, minus one container and this is logs for the second one. So it seems like my, my both Docker containers are up and running, which means I were able to share single GPU between two different containers, right? So what about NVidia SMI? Yeah. So you see these, uh, processors, they belong to these containers and it seems like everything is working. So, um, if I came from the, um, from non Kubernetes area, right, but I do want to use Docker, so containers in general, I can say that I will be able to share my GPU devices between my containers, which is really good. Uh, now, uh, I will clean up this one. So what about Kubernetes? Will, uh, will be it possible to achieve exactly the same behavior with the Kubernetes, right? Um, so again, like it's open question. It might be, it might be yes, might be no, but again, we can easily figure this out, right? Uh, so let me jump to my second panel and, and you see now I going to deploy exactly the same container, but this time I going to use, um, Kubernetes manifest and Kubernetes cluster. I will create two replicas of the, uh, of this container, like two replicas inside this, uh, deployment, and I will use one, uh, GPU exactly the same scenario as it was with, uh, Docker. So, um, now if I will apply this, if I will, uh, create like that. Yeah. So my, um, you see, I created, I created this deployment and one, uh, container is running. The second one is spending any idea why it's painting, painting on what, uh, what fall it is painting. It's waiting for new machine. Okay. Let's, let's see why it's waiting. And we can pretty easily describe this and indeed it has inefficient NVIDIA GPU. Um, this is what at least Kubernetes, uh, think happening. Now, uh, okay. It's saying that I have, I have not enough GPUs. Let me run NVIDIA SMI and see what is going on. So indeed there is only one process that is running, but my GPU utilization is equal to zero and I'm using only two gig of memory where I haven't total 12, almost 12 gigabytes of memory. So, um, Kubernetes just, just not aware about the fact that I do have enough GPU, um, capacity. It's just saying I do not have enough. Um, right? So, uh, and this behavior seems not right because if I came from the Linux world, right, I were able to share my GPU device. Then I took Docker and I also able to share a GPU device. So why Kubernetes does not allow me to achieve the same behavior, right? Because Kubernetes is based on Linux. It is based on containers, but it is not. In fact, we see that it is not possible. So you know what? Let me clean this up, clean up, right? Like that. And, um, and now I want to achieve exactly the same behavior as with, um, Docker's, I would like to achieve exactly the same behavior with the Kubernetes. So, um, yeah, I will change a bit my deployment manifest and I will try to apply it again. Now, um, so what kind of changes I will apply to achieve, uh, the same behavior as I had with Docker. Uh, so first of all, I will remove this resource limits and NVIDIA. I will just remove it. You see, this is the 10.yaml file that I going to apply and, uh, we won't find here any NVIDIA.com anymore. And this is first change. The second change is I will add one environment variable NVIDIA visible devices and I will just statically set it to zero. So now let me create this YAML like that and see what will happen. Okay. So now I have like, I have single, uh, container. Um, let me scale it to two containers and let's see if it will be running. It is running. Okay. It's really cool. So let me scale it to four containers. Oh, not 41. By the way, 41 will work as well. Um, let's see. Yeah, so I have four containers. This is awesome. What about NVIDIA SMI? And NVIDIA SMI I see four processors. So I was able to share my GPU, right? I did not install any devices plugins. I mean, nothing. I achieved exactly the same behavior as I had with Docker and with Linux. And basically, like from this point, I can go to my manager and say, hey, I am able to share my GPU, like GPUs. I am able to achieve, um, um, the fractional GPU, right? Without even writing piece of code. But probably if this was true, we, this talk wouldn't happen, right? There is a reason why I'm presenting. Yeah. So, yeah, this is exactly what I'm going to talk next. So exactly. We use, usually we use Kubernetes when we have at least plans to use more than one node. And, um, right? So, and if we will have more than one node, we will have many different device aspects, right? I might have a different amount of GPU units, different amount of memory on each device. And I will need to address this in a certain way. Also, how I will choose the right node. This is also something that I need to care of in some way. How am I going to calculate total availability and capacity? In my example, I was able to create, like, I started from one, go to two, I scaled it to four, and I can, like, it's completely unmanageable. Someone need to enforce and calculate what is the availability and capacity. Like, to how many pieces I would like to split my device. And finally, what to do if some devices are not healthy, right? Today, we have all these cloud node groups in, in clouds, and, and we have scaled to zero policies and so on, so on. And might be my device is not healthy, maybe yet not healthy. And I need to address this as well. And probably there are many other reasons that I'm not mentioning here, but they are exist, right? So with that, what kind of resources we have out of the box inside Kubernetes? I mean, what resources Kubernetes manage for us? And we have CPU memory, ephemeral storage and huge pages. All those are available out of the box, which means Kubernetes aware about total capacity and allocatable, which help us as the end users to schedule our workloads in the, in the way that we are aware about, like, what amount of CPU are going to request and the memory and if I have enough or not enough and Kubernetes will match the right node for me and so on. But obviously, we have much more resources than these four, right? One of them is GPU. But GPU, but Kubernetes itself does not address GPU issue in any way. And this is where the custom node resource and device plugin came, came in. Actually, what Kubernetes allow us to do is we can extend Kubernetes and implement required logic for our device, right? So I can say, I can decide now how I'm going to allocate the device, right? What should happen exactly when I'm allocating the device and so on and so on. So very quickly, the device plugin based on GRPC service, you need to implement GRPC service. It will communicate to Kubelet through Unix socket and you will need to implement five RPC methods and one registration call. All right. So let's see the method GPU in actually how it's working. So in terms of architecture, we have these three binaries. So method GPU, actually, this is demon set, which is running on each Kubernetes node. And we have MGCTL, which is binary for management and Prometheus exporter to export some metrics. The share logic, by default, we're going to split each GPU unit to 100 pieces, while each piece representing 100%. The memory and GPU utilization computed relatively to allocated amount of meta GPUs. All right. So if I have one GPU card, I will have 100 meta GPUs. If I have two cards, like one card to units, I will have 200 meta GPUs. Okay. So let's try and make it fractional. But this time, let make it fractional in the right way. So, yeah, I will create this YAML file and it's still painting now, right? So I will check. I will edit deployment. And this time, instead of requesting nvidia.com, I will ask 30% like that of meta GPU, right? ConvergeIO meta GPU. This is what I'm going to ask for. And I'm saving this one. Let's look on the pods now. Okay. So now my two pods are up and running, which is exactly what I want to have. And now I can try and scale it. I will try to scale it to four. Let's see if I will be able to scale it to four. Yeah. And obviously, I won't be able to scale it to four, right? Because I have 100% and I allocated 30% to three pods. So one won't be able to run. Now, if I will look on the node itself, and I will describe this node, what I will find out is now I have ConvergeIO meta GPU, which is equal to 100. And from this, I allocated 90. All right. So this actually allow me to manage resource allocation in a way, like in manageable way, right? It's not like that now that any users can create as much as they want. Now they can create exactly up to available resources. All right. So all right. So the next thing that I would like to show you is actually Kubernetes, like how GPU is natively, how native GPU inside Kubernetes. So let me show you something. I will create, again, it's the same script. It's MNIST training with TensorFlow. And in the one second, my container is up and running. Okay. Now it's running, which is cool. Now I'm running as a root. So I have a sage access to this machine and I'm a root. And if as a root, I will run NVidia SMI, I will see my process up and running, which is good, basically, right? Pretty obvious. So if I will do the same command from the container, I do not have any any processes available, right? So why is that? I mean, something is going wrong here. Now usually, when we are running inside cloud, and we have this all these immutable nodes, we like the data scientist won't have access to the SSH node, right? This is usually what will happen. And if I'm running just my MNIST model training, and I just want to see what is the utilization, I mean, I just as a data science want to see what is actually memory usage, I won't be able to get this information. So we wanted to address this by we wanted to address this issue.  So again, as a root, I am able to execute this command. And but now I have much more information. So for example, and VDSMI does not provide for me any information about Kubernetes itself, right? I have only the process name and that's all basically the memory and the PID, but what I am running inside Kubernetes. So I need, I would like to see, for example, the pod name, the namespace of the pod, what is the amount of meta GPU request is allocated for this pod and also maybe some node information like on which exactly node it is running. Now, if I will run the same command as a container owner, so I am getting also some information, useful information, which is not available when I'm using NVDA-SMI, right? And this is like pretty useful, I believe, because now users, they do not need any more root access and they're completely okay to go and and run this command inside containers. Okay. So I will clean up this as well. And move, I will move forward. So what about limit enforcement? Now, when we are able to split, to shell a single GPU, what will make, like we need some way to enforce the amount of memory or GPU utilization that has been allocated for each share, right? Because the Kubernetes will make the schedule for us, but in the same way as it happened with the regular memory, right? But C groups will enforce memory. Now, we do not have C groups for GPU. And that's why we need to address this problem also. So let me create. Okay. So now I created again two MNIST training jobs. And if I will run MGCTL again, what I will see is actually my second container becomes red, right? You see it's red. Yeah, it's red. So why it's red? Because it uses more memory than it should, right? So I have 10 meta GPU requests, which equal to 10% of the GPU unit. And it should use up to one gig, but in fact, it use much more. So what can I do with that now? So I can either issue an alert, right? Or I can just pick up a phone and say, Hey, dear user, you are using more than you should. And this is if I am nice person. But maybe, but I can, but also I can enforce this in the same way as C groups enforce this just by killing this process. So I can achieve this enforcement. If I will change some configuration, like memory enforcement, this is currently it's set to false. If I will change it to true. And now I will I will need to restart my device plugin just to make sure it's fast. Yeah, now my device plugin is has been restarted. And now in a few moments, we will see that this container you see now it's it has been terminated. And so each time this container will start. And once it will use more, more memory in this scenario, when then it should this container going to be killed, and this the it will fall to the, you know, the crash loopback state. So then we can choose how to address this, we either reduce amount of memory or we increase amount of meta GPU requests. All right. So right now. Oh, yeah. So, so how the event looks like, right? Oh, yeah. Yeah. So currently, we do not have events. But what should happen is actually, we have exporter, Prometheus exporter, which can be used with the Prometheus and alert manager. And based on that, users can create an alert. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Definitely. Yeah. And we need to actually like it's open source project. By the way, it's completely open and get up. So any contribution are welcome. Yeah. So with that, basically, that's all what I wanted to share with you. Fast recap. So max utilization, limit enforcement, dynamic resharing, easy of use and Kubernetes native. This is what we're trying to achieve. It is open source. Please contribute, use it. And thank you. Does anyone have any questions? Hey, hello. Hello. Okay. Thanks for that talk. I was wondering if you might comment a little bit on how this interacts, if at all, with the vendor tools that do the same thing from Nvidia, for example, the sort of multi instance, multi instance GPU, which I saw you were running in your driver screenshot. Yeah. So good question. Thank you. So the thing is, first of all, not each GPU card has support for MIG. There are many, many other cards, old cards, which does not support MIG and we still want to share them. So this is the first comment. The second thing is to configure MIG might be some, sometimes not easy thing to do. Also, it has some limitation. You might need to reboot the node. You cannot easily reshare, right? Because if you would like to reshare, you need to stop all the workloads and so on and so on. So the plans for this project is to use Nvidia open source libraries, NVML, for example, which they have and build on top of it cloud native Kubernetes native tooling, which will simplify day-to-day work. Yeah. As a user in a team, especially when you're running in a multi-tenant approach, how do you get an information earlier on on what GPU resources is on the node before you start like scheduling? And also, if you do schedule and there is no node, is there any possibility of that actually working with closed outer scalers? So let's scale up more GPU nodes. Okay. Yeah, right. So again, the plans, now what I showed is actually converge.io slash meta GPU.  So you might imagine that you will have multiple resources names and they will be bounded to multiple, to different cards. So for example, I even can create a resource which will I call Dmitri converge.io slash Dmitri. And these resources will represent certain GPU which only I can use. So for example, and regarding the multi-tenancy and the way you can see all these devices. So we have different visibility scopes. And when you are running this command with the device level visibility scope, you will see the complete spec of the device. Now to be able to see devices between different machines, right now, you will need to run this command on each node. We have plans to create, like we need to see how community behaves if we really have like people like it, people want to use it. So then we'll put some effort on this and we will create a central control plan where you can see all your devices, Grafana dashboards, alerts, you know, everything that really needed for production grade open source project. Thank you. One quick question. Is it possible to over commit basically? So to request, for example, many devices but set the enforcement limit only if user like really, really eat above the cap. Yeah, right. So a good question. So the thing is, you, yes, you can over commit, but what will happen is there's two scenarios. If you over commit, your container might be get killed or it might be continue running as usual. To avoid over commitment, you need to add support inside your code. So what does it mean inside your code? When I running my TensorFlow scripts, I specifying the total amount of available memory. All right. So and these need to be a tango between device plugin and your code. In certain way, it's very similar to Java, right? So if I will run Java without max and mean parameter for the memory, it will use all the memory regardless what I configured inside my Kubernetes limit and request. So in short, yes, over commitment is possible. And to avoid over commitment, you need to apply changes at the code level. Or you can leave your code as is, and then you can decide what should happens when over commit is happened. Either to kill this container or just leave it running and get some alert for this. Thank you very much. Thank you guys.


Here's a good reason to brush and floss today.  Your general health could be affected by your oral hygiene routine. Studies show that some cancers from the neck had lungs and esophagus may have a causal link to poor oral hygiene routines. In fact, a study in the UK shows that you're 48% more likely to develop kidney cancer if you have gum disease. Research is now being completed on the link between poor dental health and the loss of memory and dementia too. So brush and floss today. Wishing you good health, I'm Bill Brough.


We're giggling Friday night and we're looking forward to it. It's down in Arena 7 and we're doing an 80s disco. And it's myself and Marty Freel. And thanks to Maggie, you got us involved in it. And it's all in the aid of TJ's second birthday. And it's part of the TJ Walk and Fund. So if you can come along, as a soldier, you're choking. Well, I have counterfeits tickets if anybody wants some. But check it out on Maggie McDade, Piper's Facebook page and come along for a bit of crack. I haven't been out in donkeys doing discos. And apparently it's going on to lit. It might even go on to eight o'clock. So it's a bit of a crack. We're looking forward to it. And there's no better wingman alone as Marty Freel. So let's go for a crack. God, I haven't been out. The last time I think I was doing gigs together was records you brought me. Listen, anyway, we have a final studio guest. And we're delighted to welcome a gentleman called Rob Ellen. Rob, just check the mic, sir. Sure. One, two, you hear me? I'm coming through. There it is. Well, listen, it's a delight, haven't you? Thank you. You got in contact or you just sent me a message. Was it yesterday? It might have been as soon as that. And thanks for having us on. It's such a pleasure. It's a pleasure. Well, once you mentioned Maria McCormick's name and it's good enough, we'll go with that. And I said, she said your demand to speak to her about all things to do with the local music scene. So here I don't know about that. But we take great delight in what we're doing up here. And it's the artists that make us. But come here, a quick, you're coming. You have a it's it's it's the what he called the medicine show. It's I have been on the road now for six years. And basically I run a social media television thing. At the back of two RVs, one in America and one in Europe. And we keep moving. And I try to highlight local talent wherever we are. We also try and I say we. It's only me in the van. I'd be such good. So it's so we highlight local talent. I try to support community venues, community festivals and particularly interested in house concerts and trying to encourage people to have concerts in their own homes. I think coming out of lockdown amongst the rubble that we're left in and the venues, not all of them are going to come back. I think a lot of the slack might be particularly for songwriters might be taken up by people putting on concerts in their own homes. And it's something that I got involved in through traveling in America because it's a bigger scene for house concerts in America. So what inspired us?  I well, I've always had a van and I've always organized music. I was based in the Highlands and I had a little radio show there as well. So it's nice to be on Highland Radio. Very good. And so and I got invited in 2014 to go and talk in house concerts at a conference called Womex in Thessalonica in Greece. So I thought at the time, well, if I'm going to go and talk about it, I should walk the walk. So I asked people to organize house concerts for us all the way down through Switzerland, down through Italy, down to Greece. And we got there with about six hours in hand. I took a young singer-songwriter artist with us. It was just out of college and he wanted to travel. And two of us got all the way down to Greece and I got the bug. Now, that was it. That was it. Yeah. And you say you have two orbs, you have one here and then you go back to Canada. Yeah, we broadcast instantly across 25 outlets, social media outlets, all my social media groups, excuse me, and other stuff. And the people who follow and we've got some in the region, 30,000 people follow the whole thing over the networks. Yeah, not everybody shows up at the same time. I haven't got the bandwidth anyway for that. But and the folks that followed what we were doing because I got to about 18 countries in Europe before we went stateside. And I'd asked them if they thought was a good idea if we take some of the artists' music to America and try and do the same thing over there. And crowdfunded it and they raised enough to give me this old vehicle, which has been a delight and it's taken us to 26 states. Well, obviously, in that journey, Rob, you've heard so many different cultures and so many styles of music. It must be something else. Yeah, it's fantastic. And you always what happens is you always fall in with the people like yourself and Maria, who are connected and want to want to share as well. Exactly. And, you know, so so I've got I've got five or six of Maria's CDs, which one of them is here. And thanks for playing the track earlier on. I'm sure she'll be delighted. And so I'll hand them out to other DJs. And I'm going to try and get her played in BBC Scotland. And I also work for a lot of American artists as a publicist as well. I'll leave some CDs for Steve as well. For Jimmy, yeah, absolutely. And to say, you know, it's Irish music that we love, love promoting. And it's important equally that the likes of yourself are travelling around the world, can take Irish music to a further level. And I've got and you've got a CD there of which. And we have a Donnie Goll connection in now. It's a fellow called Charlie Roth, who is out of Minnesota. And he met the Henry girls at a festival I was working on in Inverness and ended up recording four or five tracks up in Donnie Goll with the Henry girls. So and that's released on our label as well. So it's a direct contact with Donnie Goll. Isn't it? It's amazing. It's amazing work. So people want to get in touch with you, Rob. It's through what's the best way? I'll put out the URL. It's medicineshowontheroad.me. I mean, but on Facebook, if you just the van is called the Moose Mobile. Somebody has text on it, said it's at the Moose Mobile, man. Is that right? Amazing. I love that. So the van's got a big moose on the front of it. It's called the Medicine Show Radio on Moose Mobile. And in the context of medicine, Native American medicine, the medicine of the moose spirit animal is the spirit of joy. Wow. So we try to travel in the spirit of joy. And where are you off to next? What would it have journey to be? You know, I'm going to go and do Valley Radio on Wednesday. And I've got one or two sessions lined up with local artists down there. And I'm hoping to get the call for Sligo Live. And I'll put down there and see what's going on. And tell me, is this your first time up around these parts? No. But I'll tell you when the last time I was here, it was 20 years ago. And I was tour manager and a fellow called Martin Stevenson. I had a band called The Dainties, quite big around these parts. And we did a gig in an art centre in Leicester, Kenny. And that was 20 years ago. He ended up, and this is for the Cortland. You'll know this, you'll know this place. We ended up recording an album in Leip, down in West Cork. Just near Clanty-Kinney. So we went all the way around the country. And he had all the songs ready to record this album. We ended up there and there was a recording studio in the pub. So I said, Martin, do you realise there's a recording studio here? We were collecting money as we were going around, hoping to have a place to do the album. And the prayer book came down, Glen Hansett came down. Matt Dignam came down. So there was a real crew came down to do this album. We did it in five days. It was called Beyond the Leap, Beyond the Law. And it cost £100 in those days, I think. It cost £100 a day for the recording studio and £120 for the Guinness. That's no surprise. Very good. I was a tour manager and I had the rough money to pay for both. Well, I know obviously in this journey you're on, money's only a necessity, but it's not an important issue with you. It's not a central issue. It's only a problem if there isn't any. And that can happen from time to time. But, and it's all publicly funded, I rely heavily on donations and people to pass me on donations. And usually it works out, OK, it got me down here. There was a festival up in Ardecia, my local festival. They put a tank of petrol in for me and I got down as far as a ferry with that. And somebody else helped out and we're, here we are. Lovely, lovely. Well, listen, it's been a delight having you up round because it's a joy. When I heard you mentioned Marianne and I looked under your stuff and I went up to tell this man that you're passing by. Call up, sir. Yeah, well, you know who got me here? It was Ben Real, and if you're not aware of Ben's music, he's fabulous. Yes. And he was playing in Remelton on a Friday night and I haven't been able to get out of that town ever since. Ah, what a music town that is. What are you talking about? And that's where Maria and Maria come out, come from. That was through Billy... Billy Robinson. Yeah, Billy and the Groove Shack. Oh, yeah. So that's a scene and a half. That's the sort of thing that, you know, there's those places that are like little oases around the train. Of course. Yeah, and you've fallen to meet the right people, who knows what connections can get made. Isn't it great? Isn't it great?  This has been great. I mean, there's been like a revolving door here. Oh, I know why. Well, we love it here. You know, people can come in here and we don't know half an hour. And I love the fact that you're live streaming on Facebook. We do the whole thing. So I know it's a Monday night now, so my avatar will be coming up from time to time. Well, you're more than welcome. But if people see you out there, it's just a flash of light. It's a big miss. People are starting to wave already, so it's lovely. And if anybody wants to get in touch, I can see the thing is, I can pull the studio into their drive. Very good. And we can do a session. And if anybody's interested in getting some contacts of the people that I've travelled with, we can get them to Italy. We can get them to Holland. We can get them to Scotland, of course. Brilliant. Yeah, so, you know, it's out there. It's for everybody's use. Well, it's been a delight having you around. You can spread the word about Highland Radio far and wide and tell them. I'll always be in my mind because I'm a Highlander.  Now I'm here. Rob, the thing is, thanks indeed for sharing your stories. I wish we had more time, but the thing is, stay safe and keep the music and read my comics and everybody else's and spread it around the world. And have a safe journey onward. And as I say, if people want to get in touch, it's the medicine... www.medicine music. It's medicineshowandtheroad.ne. That one's not working at the moment. It's an older one. Rob at medicine music.co.uk. Thank you very much indeed. That's lovely. We have enjoyed your company. Thank you so much indeed. It's Robbie Allen, and we thank him very much indeed. Don't forget our good friend Mickey Duffy is playing in the... He's got his album launch on Saturday the 5th of November at 8pm up in the Baller Art Centre. We're really looking forward to Billy Robinson over there. Mark McCarney, Romac Parle and a special guest, Jonathan Smith. You're going to say that? Well, you know those names are all popping up. I'm going to be with... Oh, I've forgotten his name though. Who you just mentioned. Billy's going to do a session for us on Wednesday. Brilliant. This is Mickey Duffy Highland Radio. Don't forget tickets available at the Baller Art Centre. We are looking forward. Rob, thank you.