Oh my God, it's all the best guy ever. It's we're getting there with us as Digi, bro I'm a Digi, bro Got Tom Oliver. I am nice one. I'm not Digi bro at all I'm a what's the opposite of digital Analog When's the when's the lore of analog bro gonna break in there? Oh, no, wait Look forward to the awesome origin story of analog bro at radcon 3 All right, right of that making false promises that we can't we can't get right off Don't believe any of it. There's every time anyone mentions anything concerning radcon 3 There's always a little asterisk at the end that do you sound like a munchie hat munchie hat My favorite hat producing content created the entire world known exclusively viewer for his hat making skills I don't think so Tommy Oliver known for Being black for affinity user That's for a future episode True we've got hypocrite Get ready get get ready I am everybody Get ready for the podcast.   Okay, and what are we talking about today everybody?  Well, it's true my computer had died in the middle of like our Episode we were like 45 minutes into it So we had wanted to like put the capper put the stopper on all discussions of this weird Utilitarianism meme and make it so that there was just a one-stop shop for all your W We wanted we wanted to end it once and for all indeed But I wanted to slay that dragon fizzled out and died much like Nate's hopes and dreams and his computer And we had to restart here today for you.  I just want to I just want to reiterate for everybody Yes, indeed Radcon is next week from when you're hearing this.  We go. I think the best way to start is To to talk to to reference Nate yourself. You are the urban dictionary this time So what is weird utilitarianism? Excellent question. What does it mean to you? It's a it's a complicated thing, but you know, okay It's a good start. Does anybody know where the term came from? Was it from the comments? I think I was actually trying to remember who specifically Like that that exact phrase like came up multiple times. I don't know. Yeah, it was inspired by one person But like multiple people would refer to Nate specifically as weird Utilitarianism as like it's true. It's true and it became a little bit of a meme and now Obviously, it's it's grown a little bit. So let's start with the weird with the word utilitarianism So here's your urban dictionary defines it as such A philosophy that people should act in order to increase the frequency and longevity of pleasure throughout the world Although the idea acting to increase long-term and global pleasure sounds desirable Utilitarians believe that the pleasure of many outweighs pleasure of a few a Utilitarian may believe that killing one person or to increase the pleasure of many or killing someone and harvesting their organs Would be a just action Some utilitarians have seen that this can be dangerous many Utilitarians because of this follow a slightly different ideology They should act to increase the frequency and longevity of pleasure throughout the world by following the best social Standards, okay, and the law sounds like utilitarianism is already weird, but what's weird about your utility Well, what's weird about mine? I guess in contrast to this will this will will flesh it out throughout this entire podcast but it's Like that is a the definition here even in here it is confused on urban dictionary It's like bringing multiple interpretations at you. So I am 100% about that definition is the fact that they yeah They started off with like it's all about bringing the maximum amount of happiness to the maximum amount of people I'm like, that's what every philosophy is about. That's not utilitarianism Is that utilitarians think it purely in mechanical terms and then you know like only like there's no There's no soul to be conscious of or you know in thoughts of the afterlife. It is purely a materialistic view Which is which is not synonymous with immoral That correct he had the soul of a champion Well, okay, what's what I personally the reason why I like the term weird utilitarianism so much is because I am 100% against Utilitarianism in every form. I think it is that Identitarianism just just the idea of grouping any people together under a label to quantify them. I find slightly I find it definitely Harmful and mostly immoral. I hate so much. I'm so glad people have made this label for me Well, yeah, but that's the thing because the weird utilitarianism label is a label of one me just me Which is exactly how we should think of people as individuals and that's it Like the word if I tell someone I'm a Democrat Which I'm not then like you will immediately pour all these assumptions on to me if they say that they are weird Democrat Well, then then you got then you got something special going on That's actually fair though. Like I I would say The same thing about me like if you if you attach the word weird in front of it Yeah, it helps to diminish some of those it's like yeah He's kind of like it's kind of like if you call yourself like a weird feminist like nobody wants to be called or I shouldn't say nobody wants to be called.  Right. Of course.  I The the biggest problem I see in today's like online discussions And it's probably been the problem forever And it's just become clear to me as I you know get a little more mature and worldly The problem across the board is is twofold people one they talk past each other and they don't Understand what the other excuse me is actually saying they're not actually paying attention to what the other person is saying They are making assumptions and projecting things on to them from their Predetermined biases about what these people think that is problem one problem two is that people do not actually Like comprehend that people believe what they say They don't actually understand the difference in fund foundational world view that people have like you can be Like an atheist and if you you can go around and be like, oh, you know Catholics are so evil, you know always preaching about hell, you know It's so immoral and then I say that because I on a fun on a base level I do think it is immoral but like if you think about it from the perspective of the Catholic if they don't Force their children through whatever means are necessary to be a good virtuous Christian That is dooming their child to an eternity in hell That is so much more significant than any amount of discomfort They will suffer in life that it would be super immoral of them to not do whatever was necessary to protect their kid from this perceived Danger and yeah, sorry continue. No, no, go ahead. Go ahead The problem people on like fighting just in general, but also on the internet Especially because you can see it far more, you know people's conversation laid out there here So people respond to the invisible words people may be implying by just being part of the hate Effigy that that they are assigned to so if you just see not even like in the tech If you just see like some sort of like avatar or like a name that could in fact signify that they are a part of some group vaguely Then you are just going to bring up your hate effigy that you have of that group So I for one I for one am sick and tired idea. I am sick and tired of people seeing my brony icon Just making all these blanket assumptions about not cool I gotta tell you if you want people to take anything you say seriously ever Don't like make your whole aesthetic memes Because if your whole aesthetic is memes people like that is often the case like let's say you go to drills Twitter like drills Twitter Yeah, big meme. That's the joke. It's a it's a joke Twitter.  That's on somebody's Though my phone still is 140 it's annoying. It's very annoying Right right the back here. We're just describing for the years just that tribalism is you know, everyone's packed into a Disagree with that that tribalism is bad because I want to I I don't think that tribalism is bad.  What was it? What are you saying? What is your thing?  It's some kind of lesbian I think it's scissoring. I think it's Ignore me. I pronounce it tribitism Not okay. Well, I guess you'd be the expert. Well, wait.  What cartoon it's like I was watching In any case I'm okay with the idea of like people sticking with their groups, you know, I mean, we are a tribe But that's pretty clear.  Yeah Absolutely, I don't think anybody questions that the PCP is like a tight-knit group that's kind of insular but we do try to Avoid having labels on this group like there's a lot of podcasts that you can like point out and say that's a libertarian podcast or like That's a liberal podcast or this is a comedy podcast or this is that PCP is like it is tribal in that It's the PCP, but there's no other simple way to describe it. I love we're just our cell One of my favorite things is insisting that I am a red pill and a blue pill at all times Yeah, just it's both ends of the spectrum.  I care about white people. I don't care about like whatever I just want like a future for the white race and like I get why he thinks that way the tribal nature of humanity and stuff But I think it is a very huge mistake to just say let your race like should define The group that you that you hang with and like you got you got groups like I don't know like feminists or whatever And they people just push their particular agenda and increase the amount of like Fragmentation by having like purity tests over and over like if you've got like how feminist is feminist enough to be a member of a White problem with collectivism in general is that yeah, and we're seeing it happen now Is that whenever you have like a collective ideology it kind of like turns on itself because there's there's more like you said There's more purity tests that happen.  That's exactly right. Hey, we're not really talking about weird utilitarian Everybody else's done. Oh, yeah, it's fine digi I think that it is misguided to say that it is good that the PCP is so insular Because I don't think it it is I think that we should be branching more as we are with guests Oh, I didn't mean to say it's I don't mean to say it's good for us to like never talk to anybody And and and all stuff like that. I just mean it's nice to have a tribe like it's good to have people who Generally see things the same way you do and that you can relate to and bounce ideas off of and like get a better understanding of yourself like I don't think anybody in the PCP would have been a successful if not for having a Bunch of like-minded individuals. They can bounce their ideas off of, you know I think it's usually and that ages to just not be in one particular group I you know on on that one limit yourself to just one box When like I think it is important to note that humans definitely are tribal we definitely are that way just Biologically speaking and psychologically speaking We definitely like are more comfortable with things that we've like grown up with and then when you go to foreign cultures Like it feels foreign, you know You can't just instantly absorb the culture of like a new place immediately I actually uh, but what she was saying about like don't limit yourself to one box pick as many different Labels as you want. I like that.   There you go You know be a Labels which we already they should already be cheapen because they're well should be super cheap Now it's based off of a Dow the greatest devout commenter of all time. Yeah Exactly Shout us to Dow. Um, I want to go out. Okay. Well, let's talk more about I want to go on a rant here Because it's a perfect opportunity for it since you're all here and this is all your fault Which is that I as a this is super relevant I as a member of being in the PCP have been judged to have opinions I don't have based on other members of the PCP Same this has happened where the the biggest way this happened to me is recently there was there's a board called trance That exists on reddit. It's spelled like that like a ton of letters And it's for like trans people making fun of themselves essentially like, you know Self-effacing humor about sure about trans issues. Well, they had a thread called Like a gender fluid egg Something like finding a gender for the rare gender fluid egg is what it was called And it was just a bunch of quotes of me from from my crunchy role interview talking about how I wanted to be ran but being able to switch between male and female freely and People in this thread like a bunch of people are saying like oh I always thought did you was like that because like I watched this video So he talks about wanting to be a girl all the time, you know Mm-hmm, and I was like this thread was a huge revelation for me because I never thought about it And I'm reading it and I'm like, oh my god These people are right like I've been ignoring this this whole time But then somebody comes in the thread and is like did you can't be or did she's probably not gender fluid because he's Part of a transphobic group called the PCP Yeah, who all hate trans people and that was people say about us now I want them to have no rights and their red pill and also you were considered This was considered a a what's the word I'm looking for the hate group No, the red the red one not the blue one, but not Oh, yeah Yeah, this is described as a conservative transphobic podcast and I was just like I don't like even if even if there was at least like This was all based on like a discussion of of course Nate and Ben and DeVue. I think being like aggressively Understanding trans issues or something in some podcast, but it got attributed to me I was just like I've been the most pro trans person on that I know so for as long as I've known that it was a thing, you know, like I've always been totally down for For trans rights and everything so it was very strange for me to see that and I was just like the PCP is not a conservative podcast or a transphobic podcast if it was then I wouldn't be on it, you know like that would Because for it to for the entire podcast to be that would mean that everyone on there was that, you know But it's not it's a multifaceted podcast with a bunch of different personalities with different that's the problem Who feel as though they can actually talk to each other in spite of the differences in the worldview, you know, that's right It's unfortunate, but this is people You know like I understand why people make this connection Well, first of all to make the case that for example what I said on the podcast was transphobic I said something but actually what I said in this podcast was equally damning in terms of me being a hater Against trans rights because what I said previously in this very podcast was I am staunchly anti Identitarian and that is exactly synonymous with saying what I said in that podcast was that I don't care about trans people Because that's what I mean I don't care about these individual issues that have literally nothing to do with my life and I don't care about Republican rights, I don't care about Black people I don't care about white people.  That's how I feel your own. I feel I definitely believe in that Everybody you feel what say that again.    I know you've got problems, you know This is I don't know white guilt or something people want to be allies and something I don't know what the idea is there. I'm sure I'm sure this part of it Nate I'm sure that's a growing culture But I think a lot of it is just like people trying to be goody-to-shoes though I say that in like a mean way, but I'm sure in their heart of hearts. They want to be a gay person They're see I completely agree Yeah, I completely agree that these people are actually being good and being honest with their worldview I don't even begrudge them that I simply have a different world view And I think that it is not helpful to just like call me evil or hateful or like, you know Any of that shit as opposed to convincing me like pedantic romantic is trans and message me and like politely explain some areas where I Made basically just complete mistakes and I just politely said oh, well, thanks I wasn't aware of that, you know, I don't spend a lot of time thinking about these issues as should be clear So yeah, I was definitely wrong about that. Thanks for correcting me We had a completely civil discussion. I respected her Points and it was fine and and that's like that's a civil discourse that actually gets somewhere Yeah, that's it, but then we like but the reason we're all grouped together This is the other problem here It's that people can think whatever they want about like me and what I've said but because I am like officially I have the label I do have a label of member of the PCP and did you you also have the label of member of the PCP and People can just latch on to that and they can make any connections They want they could say that it first of all they they wrongly perceive me to be to hate trans people They could say he's in the PCP. Therefore the whole PCP is tainted with this idea Therefore did you is also tainted with this idea or he's like encouraging it This is a huge part of why we've essentially lost Jesse and why all of you are responsible who listened to the show for Associating him with everything we say when you just don't want to be associated with a lot of what we say, you know Like as a again like you said you get a target on your back just for being like friends with somebody who?  It's a discussion. I'm not holding you guys Responsible for the things you say on the PCP because it's first of all a comedy show.   It's a hot friend.   Like we were all just curious and like talking about it.  I mean, yeah Like anyone who doesn't agree with me totally or isn't like fighting, you know from my battles and my rights It's like dude.  I mean, that's how I feel I'm completely libertarian on this front.   Guess what? I don't care. I don't know those people. I'm sorry The police of Russia have to deal with those murders It's out of my jurisdiction.  That's how I feel the problem The PCP and everyone taking all of our opinions. I have real trans friends by the way I have real trans friends who I talked to and like and we are friends But here's the thing I like them because they're my friends not because they're trans.  I have Right friends. We're really we have not talked about weird utilitarianism Something else other than weird utilitarianism right now is well, okay?  It's like you turned off comments on one video and now you cannot take criticism at all That's how people now take you you know It's funny you mentioned that because like a thing is like you know There are a lot there were a lot of people back when we did comment rules part 2 that they ever know the entire PCP is Anti-comments when like half of that episode was like a debate about whether they were good or bad People people recently who have been like criticizing you did you for your whatever stance on comments or whatever like They they they'll take clips of you saying these things from like a PCP episode Just and like you can hear me cutting in making a counter-argument and like arguing against that point And then they say oh the PCP believes this and like we just have to clearly different opinions Well, I'm trying to say mine, but I think this is like I Don't really blame people for doing this It's like intellectual shorthand and I feel like that's kind of like our brains are designed to do that because it like Frees up resources to do other things, you know when you got a cat back and back in the day We're trying to make sure you don't get fucking mauled by a saber-tooth tiger You don't really have time to fucking you know noodle on the nuances of everything going on around you You kind of our brains are good at like picking out patterns really quickly, and I think that's what happens in situations like this It's like you're right just like make a flat Association and roll with it as opposed like sitting there I completely agree that like it's totally reasonable that this happens in people's heads But I think as soon as they open their mouth that's when you need to start thinking about it You know that's right like we cannot judge people's thoughts, but we can 100% judge their actions, and we should I'm not excusing people I'm just saying I understand why it happens. I don't I think 90% of the time.  I just want to clarify guys. It's not okay actual I've said this before but I don't like not care about trans people. It's that your issues are your own They're not my issues. That's how I feel. I think it's like people can't comprehend the idea of a group That isn't the same on it like we're a group of friends Most groups of friends don't go under like a group.   Yes same stale memes and it's a pretty good meme video Fantano But did you have to praise Hitler 50 times? Exactly?  Yeah, I like that. I haven't thought about people see that's a positive way to do I really like I really like how the weird utilitarianism Podcast was lost to time and here we are trying to revive it and 30 40 minutes in we still have not gotten around to even starting to talk about it Yeah, hey Nate. What is weird utilitarianism mean to you? All right. Let's get back. Okay. Okay. Here's the thing guys Here's here's the thing. I think that was all good We're talking about ideologies here and all this kind of stuff and like group think and stuff And weird utilitarianism as I've come to understand it is the bastion rebelling against all things Identitarian and and and bad and gay and and fake and not real I don't think that's what people mean when they say weird utilitarian.  I've said that I can control it. Well, okay, okay Okay, this I actually want to just revisit. I mean it's been like 40 minutes now but if we revisit the definition of utilitarianism the thing that I didn't like about that definition was they talk about this thing of like I mean the little like Example here is people who believe in utilitarianism believe that it is all right to kill one person take their organs and distribute them to many or like You know like a utilitarian would with the trolley cart problem Where you've got a train headed to one person or headed to five people and you have the power to flip a switch So it'll instead run over one person and you know, you get a net gain of life These are the sorts of questions that are that are dealt with by this You know, I've never understood that real car thing because it seems like Obviously you kill the one like who would choose well, but then you're responsible, but then you're responsible for killing the one There's a moral quandary here about action the idea.  Well, that's the question So like obvious to me because it's obvious to me and that's the way that okay What if you had to what if you had to torture a person for a thousand years to save a billion people? What if you had to do that?  Yeah, why am I living? Yeah, I'd pay someone else to do it obviously. We're using examples here.  Is that what we're talking about? Basically are all the people I love in in that group of a billion people Yes, let's say yes. Okay, then I'm pressing the button. Okay.  Does the rest of the family die if I don't torture him for a thousand years?  No No, I don't care about anybody else outside my family. So, okay. Well, see that's interesting I do I do because I just like my family. Oh, I love my wit which of the PCP would I torture for a thousand years to Save a billion people a digi a Tom mage Nate This is this is actually utilitarianism discussion. This is the good stuff. It's like making calculations like trying to figure out how to maximize happiness and health and you know like and human life and Intelligence everything comes with humans being alive. I want to mention that yeah, this this problem Vsauce did As part of his special YouTube red series, but one of the free ones. Oh, yeah Where he set up a situation with like the the train thing and it was like him He actually fooled real people and what they do one of them pulls the thing and killed the guy But it's like this simulation ended and then they interviewed her and then everybody else Was just stunned and yeah and frozen could not you know, even though they were late They were told how to to press the thing and it was like, you know, I'm just It's a good video. I can't remember that sounds fascinating That sounds fascinating And that's exactly the sort of thing like when you're in the when you're in the hot seat and it is you now Like let's say forget a button What if you have to slow like the only mechanism is to physically cut the throat of the person you have to reach Down with a knife and cut a person's throat to save but see that's the thing Yeah, I agree. It is a different story How it affects you as a person is relevant here But the bigger question is like it's the amount of suffering that you're calculating here Like will this person suffer more than the the goodness that will be acquired through killing or through saving like The real difficulty with utilitarianism and acting it out is because you have to put your own personal Values and comforts aside like, you know, for a lot of people like the discomfort of cutting someone's throat would override the Utilitarian value of saving, you know a million million people This is this is a great thing Sam Harris has an argument that has been made against him a thousand times by guys like like Like Glenn Greenwald and stuff and it's this like Sam makes the case in one of his books I don't know which one for like ethical uses of torture and a lot of people a lot of Christians for example We'll say like well, that's obviously ridiculous. No, there's no ethical case for torture But think about it. The Christians would be the one bringing Yeah, oh good point of all people But when you think about it, okay, let's say you've got a guy you've got a let's just say Saudi Arabian terrorist and they are let's just say Iran or what's the one a Palestinian terrorist because Palestine has nukes Okay, I'm picturing Tom go. Yeah, okay So you've got him here You've got him locked up and this man knows the location of a base where His his current like Palestinian terrorists are preparing a nuke to launch against the United States till let's say Los Angeles Where they and they the technology is such that they we won't be able to stop it This man has the information and he will not talk Tell me the moral justification for not doing what's ever necessary to get that information out of him to save millions if not billions of Slippery slope So that's true. That is very true. Slippery slope is real setting a precedent or something I mean what actually are I think it makes a huge difference if you are like Guaranteed know that he has that information Versus suspect which is what I think is usually the case like that is a reasonable no until we torture them if they know, you know You're not wrong. You are not wrong But you know when the question is say we're talking about saving millions of people It is a reasonable thing to bring up like how much are you willing to do? Let me are you willing to? Like not give him a cup of coffee when he asks for one. Are we willing to torture him on that level? I'd say people probably say yes. Are we willing to I don't know You know give him an Indian burn one Indian bird exactly one will we go that far? Where is the line? Where will we do literally nothing to him up or pick are comfortable putting him down if you know Roughing him up a little bit around the edge With themselves, you know because like you're putting yourself in that situation You know some people would be more comfortable with going places and others my my my thing with utilitarianism is that like from a raw Intellectual perspective.  I I feel like a lot of us would be okay with somebody doing the horrible thing to save millions, but not us Yeah, Tom Tom. I agree that like it's hard to argue against That like you know making more people happy is good like even in an extreme case like intellectually I want to say that yeah, probably you should kill that you should kill that one one dude to save that billion But like the it's it's the putting it into action that is like well But how do you know like sure you can be like well in theory if torturing this one person will save a hundred people Yeah, utilitarianism would say that I should do it and probably I should okay But like you can't know for sure an outcome like that When you're talking about a math equation You're assuming that the all the variables in the equation, okay are like counted for and just because we don't have literal Mathematical absolutes doesn't mean that there couldn't be a case where you got one of the one guy who could have got killed was Future Bill Gates and was gonna save literally billions with his money or millions and what if we're worthless like we I feel like that's that's it's an interesting thought experiment, but there's no way to account for the future in the present Even with like like the fact that that this is even though it's like a thought experiment I understand this is like a black and white cartoon situation like press this button kill one person instantaneously save a billion others like obviously this is not an everyday case and when you get out of the minute details of like What would an actual utilitarian philosophy entail in the real actual not thought experiment world? It sort of gets more muddy than just yeah Here's why this is not really what weird utilitarianism is I think that's true Here's one point there much the reason why we have conversations like this is so that because because laws have to follow Ethics like first you have to have the philosophy in place and then you build from that in practice And then you apply that to the real world and that's why we discuss things like this so that we can like try in our heads Understand what is an appropriate thing to do in a certain situation? What isn't so that then we can extrapolate from that I'm just saying that like yeah, like we're all saying that like yeah like intellectually we would all agree with that and I'm sure we all would I'm not saying that this is bad thing. I'm as a thought experiment I'm just saying that once you get into the more of my new details of everyday life It starts to become less just like instantaneously like yeah Well the thing is like when you talk about utilitarianism in a crazy thought experiment like we're doing right now It's very easy to like understand like logistically how it would work But like I don't think utilitarianism holds much value in everyday practice because it's very easy to make utilitarian arguments for everything Yeah, I'm like the whole reason we have like like morality would break down at that point Like I think I feel like morality is just kind of like a religion that we all kind of inherently apply to to keep like social structure in place without like any moral Commonalities in people like everything would break down and utilitarianism really doesn't have any morality other than math And like you can fudge the numbers based on how you make the argument No, you can't I think that's totally bullshit, but I think this is I mean I think there's wiggle room to determining what constitutes like creating more happiness versus taking it away This is not what weird utilitarianism is this is what utilitarianism is weird utilitarianism is where Nate eats nothing But beans all day utilitarian We were I was talking about this I got a crack open a can I Love I love talking about all you guys because you're all such you're all just like perfect like encapsulations of certain ideas You know and Nate is a person like Nate as a man who eats beans all the time.   I'm just saying that regret my decisions I'm just saying that if you're gonna eat beans all the time You need to have like all of the weird utilitarian Beans are good. Have you eaten a bean? They're good. I like beans alright beans, but I've tried a lot of beans dark red kidney beans. That's the one That's the one.  It's really unsatisfying for an everyday life Like how do you reward yourself after you finish? Okay, listen, you know, that's that's that's entirely true. I do reward myself Beans I do not okay. This is a meme I don't actually just eat beans all the time and in fact I went for quite a while Not eating beans for the last I don't know like a month or something. I didn't eat beans for lunch And there was a reason for that. It's because like a girl in your apartment wasn't accepting beans as the only meal Generally eat beans at work Like I have a I have a shelf just full of cans of beans at work that I just open up and grab a can and eat But it's like like I had left this particular batch in my car in the winter and it had frozen and then thawed And the thing was then when I had eaten the beans, they were like gross and I didn't like they were even more Unpleasant than are there normally they're pretty good, but these were pretty he was looking forward to his daily bean treat But unfortunately, yeah, he was met with something entirely different.  I kept telling myself I really got to eat these beans for lunch now.   I have missed on Monday I didn't work out and then last week's Monday I missed that as well So I've only been working out twice a week for the last couple of weeks, and that's terrible That's business. I've been working out. Well, there you go. See I'm an embarrassment. I'm an embarrassment, but But I know the right things to do and I'm slowly Gearing myself more in that direction like my my youtube success came from a cold hard analysis of like okay What's happening now? It's not working out if you know marginal success so far, but I'm working on it What I've been doing up at this point has not been working out I have to re-evaluate and figure something out and so I just you know made up me a math Got that idea on my head just did it it was great And now it's been a rica jigger doing we Aga was and stuff and it's more in line with the formula I'm still trying to make the big projects that you know whatever you're getting into like here a little bit But I wanted to I wanted to bring up.    I don't know All I'm saying all I'm saying is that with me. I like I said before I like to start with having the right principles The right principles are in place so that then I personally for for my life can then like work on You know quote-unquote laws or just like strategies that I'm going to employ It was that you you were saying how you preach a lot and can't necessarily like you know practice it perfectly and I have weaknesses many well, you know, we're all here on YouTube being like we're here on a soapbox Like that's what we're here to do a lot of the times people make fun of me for the fact that like I'll say something in a video and then totally contradict it later or make another video that contradicts it and do that all the Time and it's because these are just like these videos are just thoughts. They're just ideas They're just here's an idea. What if the world's like this, you know like idea channel Have these people not seen Steven Universe? You need to here comes a thought you let it come and then you let it go They need to they need to catch up Great great joke Nate.  I sort of agree. I sort of including weird utilitarian Well, okay, I here's the thing I take a totally pragmatic view that I think human happiness is a non-tangible good and Like I don't actually care about it But what human happiness is important for is that human beings are machines that have a happiness gauge And if that dips they become less efficient, so it is in our best interest to keep people happy and productive I think of it like that what interesting to accomplish. What ends Nate? Why yeah, okay now you guys are talking about the whole like objective like what's the purpose of life like where are we going? What's all about and that's that's I'm not asking I just want what do you want humans for what do you all right? But it implies the question and that's totally relevant that that's the foundation of all this like you have to start A bedrock like where are we going then? How do we get there? You know assess human nature, etc. Etc. Okay Starfleet right Starfleet I see Yeah, oh boy here we go A Starfleet is the vision of the future that seems like a rational place for human beings to go And I don't think that's necessarily like the end point of where humans go like start Starfleet Star Trek is a very transitional phase for humanity even in the show It's it's a period of exploration not a period of like we're done exploit like we found everything Let's just work run our shit now It's a period of trying to pursue, you know The truth that exists outside of the current human perception and I think as long as human beings are alive There will always be things for us to discover and new stuff. I mean just obviously obviously so What Starfleet is to me is an idea of where humans could go sort of in the short term This idea of being a multi-planetary colonizing You know species shout out to my boy Elon Having space travel, you know and hopefully developing some sort of space travel that allows us to go fashion the speed of light I mean, I don't know if that's actually going to happen or if it's practical But that you know without that we are kind of trapped exactly where we are right now in space So hopefully we'll find something out that allows us to do that You know warps and whatnot in Star Trek So I mean to me and like look at the the ideas of the people of the world of Star Trek You know, there's there's like the Klingons who have their civilization. There's the Romulans There's all those guys, but the Federation itself is like the United States and it was made as a metaphor for the United States it's a conglomerate of different allied races of different aliens and Within the within the Federation every planet has autonomy over itself Kind of self-governance and within those states within those systems like on earth right now Everyone still can just run their shit. However, they please the thing that has changed about civilization in Star Trek is that? Want has been eliminated.  I want to open my passion life be a painter I want to be a painter and devote myself to that you have infinite resources with which to make that happen You will not be hungry. You will be able to do this I mean, there's probably limitations of space and stuff But basically you have everything at your disposal to pursue whatever kind of life you want So right now imagine what would life be like in like the inner city of Chicago for example Which is you know gang violence all these terrible things are happening if all of a sudden Just everyone had everything that like they no longer had to fight for money because there's just everyone's got food You know, what would there what would there even what need whether even be for crime and a civilization like that If you just have what you want like the only thing at that point is like power and influence Which is real which is a real thing. You have just a sociopath. Yeah, and that kind of stuff too But like we can address those issues But the main one is an economic lever that's been pulled just anything you want you now can get for the most part and With the advance with the development of these things called food materializers I'm forgetting the word but like for example with that you can just push a button it makes food out of it Combined subatomic particles that just exist around us all the time it assembles Star Trek lore to have no never Actual what we're talking about wait, wait, let me give you some deep on the subject of lore Here's some PCP lore for you some true facts Almost every single episode that I've been on like in recent months like clockwork around the 55 minute mark Well Nate will start ranting about something that I don't think I'm gonna have a response to So I'll just get up and go to the bathroom and don't say anything and I do it every show at almost the exact same time Like 55 minutes. That's when Nate goes like bam hardcore off the deep end and I'm like checking out We have no way to wrangle him.  It's not it's well. I mean there's this thing. Okay, it's not about What Star Trek is and why you want it? It's the fact that when it comes up in a podcast discussion. It doesn't make any sense.  It makes perfect sense. It's like sometimes makes sense, but it's like it Well, no, you just don't want to hear you just don't want to hear it I don't think makes sense is the is the right phrase for it I think it's more that it's weird that he brings it up in every context that like there's my world of you God, it's a found nobody else has to do that with their world view I don't I don't have to bring up like everything I do is gonzo and all my values are revolve around gonzo like every time I do a podcast, you know. Oh, here we go. All right.  This is what you were building up to wasn't it? No, no, I said nothing wrong Hashtag Nate did nothing wrong.  No, all right That's why I thought this was the people versus We recorded this podcast yes like hot off the the the the heels of you being weird with utilitarianism recently Yeah, and we talked about it in that I remember we talked about it I don't know what it was that we talked about and I can't think of any examples But it's just the that's the reason it became a meme and that's the reason it is now a topic Yeah, you're explaining what your word for you is like You know you want you want Starfleet to exist. Mm-hmm. It you know it makes sense. I don't really know what we can tell you what we can say about it beyond I think it's it's because like It's because Nate Nate wants wants starfleet to happen You want you want you what you what you want is from my understanding is what you want is you want to better Humanity right humanity has this grand destiny this grand like like like well I mean, I think that we need to be we might if we work at it, right? That's what you want. You have this vision is Mm-hmm. I I don't mind your vision. I'm perfectly okay with you having your word utilitarianism It's just it's funny and it was a vision shaming me right now because oh yeah bring it up in topics and situations that seem weird It's weird you're taking you're taking my new small compact issues that we talk about on the PCP and tying them Tengently into this like whole fate of humankind in the future. I think that's where the weird The future of humanity So do we think animals need to come with us into space when we all leave earth like that's where the discussion You're asking about you like the morality of how we treat animals, which is perfect like how do we treat animals? I don't know. That's relevant. I just Animals now, but how do we teach how do we treat animals in zero gravity? Well, okay Here's something that a Deveau used to give me a lot of shit for whenever we had like political arguments Which is that I always argue from an idealistic perspective Which means like you know whatever I want the world like if we're gonna move the world in the direction that I think is Perfect. Here's the things we should do and Deveau would always be like yeah, but the world is not moving in that direction We need to worry about the issues right now and like how we deal with them in the moment And so I do think it's funny that like I sometimes feel as though you view every issue from the perspective of like How will we feel about this when Starfleet begins as opposed to like how do we feel about it right now? You know, you know, that's I don't even disagree with that to some degree I would argue that I'm a very pragmatic person, but when when these things come up like yes Well, for example, um like I understand the ideas of Movements, let's say like like black lives matter for example or feminism or any those are like dentists base Right now. I I hope not because I hope by then we don't need them to exist But like here's like that's the thing this sort of like Identitarianism I think is relevant to this because like any individual issue of this kind Like I think will no longer matter if we address the larger issues of like Individualism like if our core principle as a civilization is like individualism then it's a complete waste of time to focus on Like pushing for you know, like quotas in in stuff that may or may not be founded on science And you know like like women quotas at Google or any of this kind of shit Like what I want to do is focus on the topics that will really matter long term And I fully admit I am less invested in short-term ones that is true. Yeah, that is true. It's it's just it's just funny It's just funny how like if a podcast on the procrastinators goes long enough It will turn into a discussion about Starfleet and how all of what we have been talking about will affect like the the heart of the issue of the kingdom to me That makes perfect. Yes It makes sense to me too because like I used to have a gimmick in my writing when I was younger that like every time I wanted to explain something I would start from like the beginning of the universe Like I always play oh the big bang happen and therefore Eventually this led to humans and because we developed in this way like this is how we evolved. This is why we Say I'm sorry to each other, you know like okay, so I get I get coming from that perspective That's why I like that that happens on the PCP like but on the other hand It does kind of make a lot of episodes end up samey where we kind of go down the same road and like the answer What we're gonna do when Starfleet happens is often the same and I also want to say that We can call it weird utilitarianism But Nate is just any Star Trek next-generation fan cuz it's totally totally It's like if you listen to Mike's the class from Red Letter Media or Neil X Like all these guys who are in a TNG all they do is talk about Starfleet and what we can do to get there and shit Cuz we're enlightened we fucking figured it out who you're welcome for our wisdom The wisdom of watching a television show the wisdom of watching a children's cartoon. Yeah, basically. We're all in line by my milk You're not hey, you know MLP MLK Social importance MLK Dan, there's no MLP day. That's what I Wait, do you think that we're gonna we're gonna have our whole new enlightenment when when MLP TNG comes back and we have Pony version of Captain Picard That's way too easy to imagine like like if the current MLP FAM is like the original Star Trek like I could totally imagine them Rebooting it with a they are like in a year or two. Oh, wow really The next season is the last one and they're rebooting people were pissed.  I think yeah Eight years I think we've discussed like what you want out of weird child terrorism Let's discuss like like what we gains around earlier because I think that's I don't know. Are we out of things to say about that particularly?  What what what do you want to get us to Starfleet? What do you want to do?  I don't care. Just bless your patient soul I don't care right now about like the fact that like they might have used like immoral means to mine the coffee beans that are Coffee, you know deep chocolate man Let me tell you I made it very clear when I was buying an engagement ring that I was like You know these are all like at the cost of human suffering, right? Like yeah diamonds are you know?      It's actually called sketch mart.   You can't even register it No, if you support well that's exactly you are making a calculation that it is of more value to you to use this Cell phone than it is suffering for these people who are being taken advantage of to produce this material You're making that calculation whether you like it or not You're doing it.  Yes, it's like that, right?  I mean the healthy way to think about it, I guess would be I've consumed all this shit I've caused the I'm always thinking about like my footprint on the world not like my carbon footprint per se, but like my Human death toll I guess sure like how much of what I've consumed could have like the excess that I've consumed rather like not Just what's kept me alive But like all the excess consumption all the excess stuff I've bought how many people could have been helped with that with that money or that food But then I have to think well, okay Whatever I owe the world.    That's just how we are. There are defects in the system So it would be a drag. Are you with that Nate? I have a question for you that and this is something I'm not I'm not trying to put you in a gotcha. I'm just kind of curious Okay, is that you're talking about Starfleet and like you're putting all this value on the future of humanity Why are you so willing to pass off the present of you man? Because I am a weak tribal human like everybody else.  I am aware of the problems that exist in the world I think that we have to find ways to address them and like I'm aware that we need Magical future technology to make Starfleet real that we have no guarantee will ever exist But we can get closer by doing things like optimizing The rate of production and you know, yeah, I think that what Starfleet is is essentially trying to make a human tribe Like that's what the show is about is that all of humans even though we're not supposed to like in you know Be a global community per se like we're not we're not Genetically built that way to it, but it would be possible if everyone understood each other enough and there was no reason for them to fight You know indeed, but it's so that's like the idea and then there's of course They're still fighting though because it turns out there's other tribes out there in the universe and even in Starfleet in in deep space Nine there's a big war against these guys called the maquis that are they're just humans that settled in this contested area And the Kardashians this other alien race like they're just like oh, we're taking this back now And the the the maquis were just like no like this is ours now And so like those guys actually start a war against the Federation and the Kardashians so like yeah like obviously these things still happen on like political and Do they get fucking destroyed it like wouldn't well they were really sneaky They were really really sneaky, but I think they still existed by the end of that series good old-fashioned guerrilla warfare even in space pretty much I think it's inaccurate to say that people like like if they were presented like not everyone has like a radar like oh Where are people dying right now? There's someone dying Ukraine right now Well, I feel sad now if someone were to be alerted like a news article It wouldn't just be like a blanket just like oh, I don't care Just look away now people I think I think most people in the comments most people like listening We'll probably feel a little bit bad about it But there's just no practical way that well I think that you can that you can make sure that people everywhere don't die Well, I think it comes down to like a lot of people like like it's just like You know the thing everybody says you want to help people you got to help yourself first You want to be selfless you have to be selfish like capitalism has done more good for the world the majority of socialism or collectivism Like like like even if I said right now like I want to make a difference like I can't even keep my shit straight You know like I'm in no position to help anybody else because I can barely help myself And I think that majority of people have that problem like but that that is a burden that human kind should take up And people try it like it is it is a choice here if we could give up or we could try And we might break under the strain of doing so and I'm not saying like we should nanny stated up What we should do is apply principles across the board that we think will best facilitate us to getting to whatever destiny we choose Starting now. That's what I you know, that's really what I think So it's about finding the philosophy that makes the most sense to advance and this is what this is what people argue all the time This is why we have political arguments for these exact reasons I personally think that like it would be best if we left it up to individuals to flourish on their own and have less State intervention and stuff and just let people do what they want But and I'm I'm willing to hear arguments of all kinds and I do I listen to political stuff all the time Right different people's views on this stuff But I have come to a conclusion and I think that it's a pretty good one But I'm willing to evolve it at any time And this is not passing things off to the future like oh if only we had replicators then everything would be great So guys we need to make replicators. What are we doing not investing in a replicator technology? I'm not saying that at all what I'm saying is like let's Continue to encourage capitalism because capitalism seems to get results It's got issues that we should work on but we should up like Continue to champion that because I think it's like the best way to go and then yeah go on much You know, they just released a new version of a capital and called and our co-cavals I think we should upgrade to that version so we can get the ball There's good things and bad things about it, you know, but I've learned I've heard about it I don't know I've heard about that game. I think it's pretty good. I think we're pretty good I've been watching the trailers. I I don't know like talking about all this. I don't know whether I have a worldview Like like it just even like if I sat down sort of thought to myself. Well, what do I think? Mm-hmm. It would probably just be blank space.  That was that was a legendary moment God I don't know if I could find it but like me Ben and Nate were on a way to Brony con like 2014 or whatever And I was just on the tumblr and it's happened to stumble upon this thing We like stop at a rest station. I'm like guys. Do you need a mental rest right now? Do you want to reset your brain for quicksack check this out and we all had a good old chuckle What a legend by the way, I search gloom gender on Urban Dictionary. It doesn't even have a definition Was someone's weird utilitarianism this that's exactly what I was gonna say this sound It's gonna sound a little hypocritical But like what I these people continue to splinter down like but for they take a thing like like gender and they Splinter it down into a little special identity that they can latch on to and really weird utilitarian We'll be weird utilitarianism is actually a meme that is not a real thing It doesn't mean anything. I always thought that the gloom gender thing seemed like it was Intention like not not satirical per se, but it's intended to be kind of funny like The fact that it was 12 maybe it was is your gender and 80% The whole Was written in this very like in this very like childish dialogue that made it hard to determine if it was sincere or not I don't I don't think that it's insincere. I just think that it's intentionally funny like well Is what we have here like a kid just like playing with gender. Is that what's going on here?    It's like well if gender doesn't matter anyways if saying male female whatever it doesn't actually mean anything I might as well just make up my own that like that that communicates how I Perspective I just don't understand what like my always weird like okay Thought to that is like why even hijack the term gender?     Am I oppressing your worldview? I wouldn't say you're oppressing there.  I'll say that you are but it's not a bad thing Like everyone I agree should be oppressed cuz all of us I think you should Everything so we all deserve to be like horribly like lambasted for our views.  I want to hear it. Well math math works definitionally because we created it and we created the axioms that it works on so maybe digi means like math is not a Thing that we discovered math is like a system that we invented and it works within our own definitions I feel like this entire podcast has just been Tom Nate and digi talking endlessly and then hippo me and Ben Just being disgruntled but not really know how to I don't know I'm shifting it to disgruntled gender right now The way to solve that for me is to bring up the the previous like lost episode of you with Utilitarianism that we did record and I I posted my audio on Gibb and take you just like just play both of those videos at the same time And I'll basically have the same points I just realized Nate you just gave me a great idea for the term gender drifting Like if you if you need to like pull off like Tokyo drifting if you need to pull off five consecutive Hairpoint genders in like like you know like while blasting running in the 90s.  Is that the one with the Donkey Kong like barrel that shoots you to the top? Yes Mario Kart, that's that's how we're gonna build Starfleet because nothing the only thing that travels faster than light is gender Oh my god, yeah, okay for real though I actually I just want to be I do respect like transgender people and people with Non-traditional gender identities. That's that's cool, man. I do you do you just want to let you know I have no hatred in my heart. I just don't you don't you think it's sad that we have to make that addendum though that we look I know I feel like the reason why he has to say that because he constantly says that he doesn't care about them at all Identities goddamn it. I'm consistent here and also for what it's worth There is like a strong like culture on YouTube of like Conservative people who do have a problem with trans people. So like I understand why people are like wary Why some like for the PCP has like a weirdly large trans audience, which is entirely my fault I think because I have a really large trans audience, but like But I do think that some of those people, you know come here and they're like uncomfortable at first because they're like I don't know if these guys would hang out with me if I was there, you know Because they're afraid that like we're gonna treat the gloom gender I will hang out with you, but I will laugh at the fact that you call yourself gloom. I mean I would love to hang out with that gloom gender, but I would love to meet them and pick their brain Like the thing with with the PCP is that we're really really edgy a lot of the time Yeah, like even we have no problem Like we're not that the sort of people who would Disassociate with a type of person because it's kind of funny what they are to us and like like Makes me like the more that they're funny All right, do we want to move to questions or do we have more to say about weird utilitarianism? I feel like we've run the gamut here It has close closing points anyone anyone on this thing I Want to talk to you about how like like how have you come to the point on your life where you are Or at least you claim to be and I'm sure that you are like consistent In 100 spin of the facets in your life where everyone can like every one of the choices in your life can be whittled back to Weird utilitarianism or or if it occasionally can't it is an insane What I will say is I don't think it's a bias what it is is a consistent application of my current worldviews that are absolutely subject to change But that that's what it is.  It like it violates some foundational stuff. It doesn't make sense. Totally bullshit point Yeah, but I really feel I strive in all things to be completely honest and fair to all ideas and It just so I but I do have opinions and I have I have experiences in my life And I have arrived at a place where I really think that like capitalism has been shown to work It really works well, but it needs some, you know regulation Like the future presented in Star Trek I think is a good vision for where human beings should like keep in mind as a star in As a distant star in our mind to head towards and I think like treating things in a utilitarian way Generally speaking is like the most moral and to do the most good for the world It be and because of all these things like I think there's a little silly label on that stuff from my views of weird utilitarianism Two points on that.  I am subject every single day to Examination of my ideas. I I mean obviously everyone gets attached to their worldview to some degree I do not feel I am overly attached to my worldview on on these economic ideas in some ways like my my like my atheism I am very very convinced that I am right on that but I could be corrected I could absolutely be correct if there was evidence to the contrary, but none is forthcoming But but to your other point of is isn't a utilitarian idea to bring up weird utilitarianism so much in the podcast Are we producing the most wealth for the world in doing so is that the most useful use of time? I don't know. We just have to react to market forces and let them dictate whether or not it's the right way to go And that's it. I I think that I bring it up When it is occurs to me when when something comes occurs to me That's that resonates with my worldview on this stuff I bring it up because that's just what this podcast is. It's a it's a it's a train of thought. Well Yeah, I hope that now that we have made this big Dump of info on your worldview. Yes, it will it will happen less often cannot promise that but I hope that if it comes up we can just say I'll just go watch episode 99 Skip you you added a lot of these episodes every time you goes on a weird utilitarianism Just cut it out.  That's PCP, but every time Nate opens his mouth. We play the entire Someone's gonna do that and they're gonna be the hero of please do it complete with complete with the 40 minutes of not talking about That includes every time it says right while someone else is talking like You have to also put the entire Excellent, I think I am always right Guys, I think that we're we're good. We're good on that Let's do it mother fuckers. We got some goddamn questions. Oh Oh, I like this one from the procrastinators Patreon questions lounge pledge $1 at least you can get in this exclusive club secret club But you can't tell anyone about or you can't We have from Cappy. What is the human body lacking a built-in gun? I Immediately thought tentacles like okay, I don't feel I have enough dicks.   Yeah from all those fucking. Um, what's it called wait all those Japanese? Yeah, that guy wait that guy. He died. He died. He died in a car crash yesterday. I think No, it's true Billy Harrington I think is his name.   Oh, man. I don't know like I would always assume that Maybe so I watch too much spider-man the tentacles come from like your back Yeah, that's not that's a good one if it's coming I mean, I would just prefer to be like a blob monster made of tentacles, you know, like or like a tank a little time creature That can be a raid Digi how much Homestuck fan porn have you seen not much? Have you are you aware of the tinta bulge? No Oh, is that the that's the that's the Homestuck dicks, right?   They're built for pleasure not to speed the the trolls Built for need hey, can I can I read a let me read a question wait?  We're missing we're you just want us to be gorillas That body mass has to come from somewhere and it's gonna come from our brands and it's gonna come from our ability to last without Wait, wait, have you have you guys seen that picture of that that like creature? That was like it's a human being this is what a human being would have to look like to survive a car crash Oh, yeah, that's great. That's what I that's what we're missing. We're missing a lot of that stuff Look it up right now.   Wait anybody who might know this This is him. How did we used to sleep? How did humans sleep before beds?  Did you lay on your back on the ground or just like? I don't know Or whoever posted this how what do the breasts add is reviving the car crash? How do those help survive well so you can nurse yourself back to health with supple milk Oh my god, that's like a whole thing. There's like yeah, what it why is this? I thought this is gonna be like Human being would have to like be built like to survive a car crash is the idea Yeah, but why is it just kind of why the weird nipples? It was originally developed like by a car crash like thing Like they they they published that it went viral on facebook And I think there has since been like further You know further people.  I have no idea what almost made it a whole podcast without looking at images to piss off people. Well, there's so Thanks to me thanks to me everyone praise me for that But just in concept it's just this disgusting like bulbous creature with like a lot of padding around the brain obviously With these big-ass thick feet and weird nips, but if he had but if his under his helmet was just shaped like his helmet Yeah, basically Anybody else got answers for that question? I have a couple answers actually I think first of all a tale of some sort to help with balance because I'm horribly clumsy Yeah, no, it's like uh, we're missing a lot of fur and cat ears. I want to be a neko chan. That's what we're missing I realized another neko chan appeal I realized a great one, but our eyes need to be large and Did you did you would you not want to have real life cat girls? I mean come on.  What's your son? I think we're missing file conversion and in our biological body. It takes too long for me to convert files And I need a body.  So those are multiple directions at the same time I was gonna say I was gonna say I wish we could see a greater range of the electromagnetic spectrum We're so limited.  We are pretty limited sense We can't even sense microwaves let alone radio waves.   Like I used a microwave. Do I want to sense it? It goes beep.  I see there's some microwaves I don't want to see more of the spectrum because I don't want to see in other like qualities How bad my art is. Oh, the limited spectrum. I see is bad. You know what spectrum I'd love to be able to see is the autism spectrum Before I talk to somebody Imagine if like those color codes that they had it, okay, actually I already feel bad enough about myself I don't need another measure.  Exactly. Well, remember at brony con. They had these uh for the audience who wasn't there Which is everyone I guess They had these fucking badges where you could um, they had like a three color system where it's like if you have green That means you you can talk to me if you have yellow It means don't like or hesitate to talk to me and red means don't talk to me at all And it was like it was literally a system for like the unbelievably large autism population of brony con to um, you know Communicate whether they wanted to be spoken to or not.    Yeah, I'm sick of accidentally raping all these women who didn't actually want it I feel as though a lot of people like the reason that they're afraid This is definitely true for me like part of why I could never cold approach girls It's like I don't know if they want to be spoken to a lot of people You have to do it to find out at all. Yeah, I just want to so everybody knows Here's the right way to assume They don't want to talk to you once you know that then your arm, you know, it's the worst possible scenario, but still do it anyway Of course. Yeah do it anyway. That's right. That's right Ben you you you are the creator of science you you've made physics What what would we have to do to the human body to make it be able to see more colors? Uh, I mean more cones and rods.  All right What part of the eyeball do you think taste enough for this shit?  That's probably the best Here's a question from No, there's a question from Roo guy. He says have you ever pushed yourself to a point where you opened your inner strength? What?   It's like a long run and When you get to the end or like near the end you're like, I'm gonna die But you've got to look cool So you have to sprint at the end and you always kill yourself but In a strength, I like you you can't do it until you see the glory that is Sprinting over the end.     It was just a wrestling match. I would do it anyway. Just do it anyway What a champion that reminds me of a thing I used to do with my brothers where like um We would get like all the soft things in the house like all the cushions all the pillows All the duvets all the blankets and then one person Usually me because I was the oldest would get covered by all of the stuff And we'd I'd have to like rest I like Scratch my way out like punch my way out and they would lay on me and then I would I would I would be like oh I have no strength left.   I'm talking about him.  He like it would be over Like that would be that would be cool.   Uh, while I was working on Mia Maffova. I definitely physically that was an extremely demanding time and I Just persevered and there was no one moment of just like You know unlocking something, but just the physical fortitude required to get it done I despite, you know, I found I found inner strength working on Brunswick I worked on it like most of every day all day for like most days I worked for most of the day for like an entire month and I was like the most focused I've ever been on finishing a thing It's similar to this uh Two for one, but you're both related one another for the past couple of days before I came here to I've been a bit of a boss now. Hello.  Yeah I would get like I would get like kind of tired around 10 p.m. And then I would be fine again until maybe like 4 a.m. Or 5 a.m. Yeah, exactly exactly been exactly like like well over 30 hours for me to like get like If there's a crunch time that makes sense, but you got to sleep some time So it doesn't seem like you're really just making me miss like being young Because that's what I did when I was your age was just like not sleep as much as possible Like not even so much because it was like super easy to do But just like to me it was the coolest thing to do is like if you could stay up for 48 hours That's the best possible like night because it just means that you did shit non-stop for two days without like Any interruption and especially for me as a kid when I valued weekends so strongly because like my cousin would come over And we watch anime all night and it's like if you pass out you don't get to watch as much anime You know if you do pass out you don't get to see every show that comes out I don't swim so you got to be up all night, you know and um Yeah, so I got used to doing that, but it's it's a lot harder now I think one of the best slumber parties. I have to say in slumber. Oh good idea One of the best times that I pushed myself physically and digi you were there too is like the first burning calm We hung out we didn't sleep for like three days straight Yeah, well because because we couldn't and because we didn't want to in that order Yeah, that was a yeah, that was definitely try almost every con I've been to I've pushed myself physically because it's just Up until recently up until the last couple cons I went to because of the fact that I decided like First of all, I'm an adult now.   We really need to get on.  I would still never do it.  Yeah, $5. I thought you were gonna recommend it Yeah, the sleep podcast. Well, yeah, but we want the money one though, please Yeah, the money.  Oh from zeno grade in the questions bar if you could completely get away with one crime What would it be robbing a bank that has all the money in the world?  You're right. Never mind. Yeah, if I could get away with one I got master plan if I could get away with one crime. I would illegally pass legislation to make all crime legal Oh, okay Illegally, yeah, but again that we're like dealing with like law here Like why not just do that legal? Why not legally pass a law to make all crime legal? Because um, they would say that sounds hard. Okay, whatever. My crime would be That's not hard My crime would I would I would somehow make it that uh, I I have uh, Like amnesty from everything so then I can just do whatever I want. I can like cook the books So so anything I do from that point forward. I can't there's no Legal ramifications for my actions.  Yeah, we are The world that that's fine. I I will Uh, say my opinion on the internet. Oh That's illicit.  That's too far.  I'll get away with it though That's the best deal of all time.  It'd be awesome I used to have a fantasy. I used to think about this all the time when I was younger But if I ever became like a billionaire, this was my plan because I was gonna own a private island And I was gonna own like some kind of mech or giant like some some kind of destructive suit of something I could pilot And um, then just like have a city built On this island that I can destroy and then I just keep rebuilding and destroying the city whenever I feel like it Yeah, okay, and that was a fantasy of mine as a kid.  All right. Uh Here's another question from one spar. He says, hey guys, it's one spar the one man who's Sparingly on time for questions. What are your go-to excuses for being late? Ah ben you have the floor Um I just didn't care enough to show up on time. Yeah, there you go. Works every time They burst into applause Yeah, I'm owning it. I'm owning it I'm making it look good.  I'm the same for doing that. That's good. That's good That's pretty much what it comes down to like I find something that was outside my control and I project the excuse onto that Like I'm sorry dude. There was just so much traffic. Like what could I do? What could I just I do that? My friend matt really got this down to a science because they're matt my friend matt. Matt. Matt. Matt. Pat. Yeah We had he's a whole game theory about it. No, um He uh What he he'd constantly uh be late for work And so his his way around it Was that if he realized he was going to be late for work He'd be like i'm just going to be later for work and he would go get donuts for everybody and then he'd bring Yeah, why are you late? Like I got everybody donuts. Yeah, everybody was happy and he never got in trouble That's a reasonable idea. Yeah There should be a podcast with with talking tom and matt pat Can you imagine just the disparagey there? Oh, no the richest man in the world and the poorest man in the world There's some knowledge that can be gleaned from that That would be good. I would love that. That would be that would be literally the most opposites attracting the entire The most happy positive man who's ever lived who you know, it's just a theory But he claims is true and then versus tom that would be that would be something Make it happen guys patreon.com slash me And we will get patreon.com slash tom versus matt pat 2018 extravagan. You should get matt pat on the on the pc It's a good idea. It's a good idea. I mean, yeah It's a good idea. Does anyone else find matt pat kind of like kind of adorable? I know like yo, what's up guys? Sorry I haven't made a video in a long time It's the tom bomb here time for another game excuse. I don't know. He's so like game excuse Like he's kind of like overly sincere, but it's kind of in a way like he doesn't see anything I don't know. I think he's he's just like he's like I think he's very authentic Yeah, he's really authentic and he's like he's I don't know He's so authentic that I search engine optimization Sometimes I'm kind of embarrassed for him, but but then I'm like oh, but but you know, he's he's he's having fun with it I I just get I stop at the embarrassed thing I love game theories on five nights. Um, I actually really like them I do they're so much better than the game. It's it's the presentation. I object. I just It's just not for it's a taste issue.    I apologize My pet responsible for one of the greatest childhood tragedies has ever occurred my entire life What was that? I was using the family computer like like in just like the living room And uh, like like and like the way my house was positioned Like if my mom were to come out of her bedroom and like look in the living room She could instantly see it was on my screen. Oh, no one day in like in like the the dead of night aka 10 p.m She wallowed from from her bedroom and saw me looking at matpat Like like the boobs episode of game theory where he knows video game characters boobs. No And she flew off the handle. Oh, jeez. How old are you at this point one year old? Yeah, I was like 11.  What is it definitely a boob boobie man? Hey Would you like to enter a lightning round of rad con 3 hype questions before we wrap up the podcast? I think that's only fair because the next episode the 100th episode will be in rad con. So I think that's right Let's do it. All right. So here's it. Here's all the questions we got about rad con We got aj choup who asks who's going to smell the worst at the end of rad con 3 Digi no or wait. Wait.  Oh, it's ben. I forgot the room had to be pressure washed for days before it stopped smelling like his body My dad literally pressure washed the room twice like all the walls all the carbons. Great. What are you talking about? Everything had to be banned multiple times before it's less lost the scent of ben sainte Uh, well, there you go.  We have showers. Wait, no, we're good. We're good, man. Well, okay.  We are locked inside and and the smell permeates the entire building That's what it's like. Yeah Well, here's an answer that munchie can just say my name immediately and be correct about Mr. Tangelo asks who will get the drunkest at rad con 3 Digi digi. I don't think anybody else really seriously drinks out of this group. Yeah, I don't think so No, I mean not as much not as much drunk on life because that would be me The question is though in the in the environment of rad con who could be motivated to drink more perhaps it would begin I was gonna say hippos the only person who I could see out. Oh my god We should play but it would only be once it wouldn't be that he drank more overall It would be that he might at one point get drunker guys.  Tom could get that too. That's when you that's when you that's when you you duct tape your beer cans to each other And like the more you drink the longer your wizard staff gets and whoever has the longest wizard staff wins the night Oh, that's good. That yes. Uh, oh actually no because I don't want to die I I will agree before I know what that is. I just told you what it is. You just told us. Oh, oh, oh, I don't get it I understand it. It's like you drink a beer and then you drink your new beer and you duct tape it to the top of the Old beer cans. Oh those things. Oh, I thought I thought you were talking about duct taping it to the other person and having to drink it No Orange juice I want to play I want to play the I definitely want to play that beer stacking thing. I've never done that before but I want to another great Here's what I have done though, which is where you uh, you get two big cans of beers and you duct tape them to your hands And you're not allowed to You know remove them until you finish So you just got the beers duct tape your hands.  I don't I don't mind the idea of like a big drunk party time Uh, because I will not drink unless pressure.  I have drunk the beers and the alcohol laws up to this point But recently I like never drink just because like it's not around so like I don't and it's just a waste of time It's the biggest waste of time. Okay. Here's a here's a really here's a really important question the other day The other day I went out and I had we were at dinner and I got like a it was like a mango teeny And I drank it and I felt swasted after one martini.  I'm gonna go for alcohol and it's pure swarm and eat pure pieces of wheat I have not the middle man. I have a very important question If I were to bring weed to rad con would anyone smoke with me? I would not No, nobody would do it because I have smoked weed on a number of occasions and I have never enjoyed the sensation Well, that's unfortunate. I have never smoked a weed. So I might try one one weed. All right I might try it once, but I I hate the smell.  It is totally decriminalized in massachusetts Yeah, so this would not be like an illegal. It's all good thing Um, but I would have to you know drive it And everything give me that kush.  Yeah, we know. No, well All right, yo, okay.  All right one more. You got anything else one final Last radcon related question we got from agent mm. He said to those in a relationship What does your significant other think of pcp or radcon and would they join in?  No one should ever join this group again It's just the standards have elevated astronomically. Yeah. Well, it's just that The point of this is that it's a a long standing group of friends. We've known each other for years Yeah, you know, I mean I could see if say we all moved to boston and we all Fucking have our girlfriends with us and everybody becomes best pals.  Um, because it was that girl who was in the documentary I don't know if she's like considered a part of the group Or she was tangentially related, but I'm pretty sure there's someone There's at least one member of like the group who I don't think ever shows up in videos Well, hey, hey, I'll tell you this. Uh, I have legitimate nightmares about girlfriends getting involved in the pcp Legitimate nightmares Yeah, like like it's the worst case scenario life has gone to hell because girlfriends have been involved in pcp work It is the worst case scenario to me and uh, let's just say I'm not I'm not interested That's what I feel about it. Uh, if if uh, if may was ever involved if for any reason in the future It would not be a girlfriend involved because we're already engaged. So Same difference. Yeah, I'm with munchy on this. Why the fact that this even comes up is a terrible thing for me This is the wrong questions to be asking This is the last question that anybody had and I want to know what everyone's girlfriends thinks of the f***ing pcp And rad cut if they would be involved If you think so, well, uh, briska briska thinks you're all f***ing gay I don't know my girlfriend loves the pcp is a fan is a fan of like everybody in it patrons most of us Uh, and I mean she has said that she has no interest in pcp Though to be fair that was uh, you know after knowing how I felt about it So perhaps her opinion was colored, but I really I mean she has made no bones bad that she Is not like she doesn't want to be involved because like it's my thing. It's not her thing. She has no relationship. I think that generally are Spouses of whatever Kind like recognize that it's this this group has already like anything that tampers with it is already a problem Like everything we've tried to do has already been a problem. So let's not make it any worse You know michelle was just telling me the other day michelle was just telling me about uh, like the super best friends cast Um, or the super best friends, you know, whatever like apparently people were coming them and asking them questions Like hey, why don't you like we see your girlfriends occasionally? Why don't you get them involved in more and the guys were like, well I mean they're not in the show and then like the girls themselves weighed in and this is coming from michelle So it's a you know third party thing. I'm hearing it But they said themselves like I mean that's their thing like they're just there they are they are doing their thing over there It has nothing to do with us. Why would we be involved?  Well, that was just a friendship initiative, right all over twitter It was super publicized. It was used as a pcp group activity Hashtag relation to me moving my stomach Okay, okay, sure I I'm not coming down hard on the anti girlfriend side. Did you I think it's a funny joke to say ha I think it's fair for me to say I am staunchly on the anti girlfriend side Very very much so in terms of them getting involved in the pcp. I would agree I've not I'm not a fan of anyone new being involved in but you know what this is kind of an interesting question I've thought about this more as times gone on I think something like what digi did with corrupting your kids Like what he did was he's just making new content for for people who choose to be involved with it that way You're not putting any pressure on like old people to just like get with the times into your The college fund was first and it was the same thing Okay, there you go. I just yeah college fund was definitely part of what inspired it But because it was just there you go and it was pretty immediate It was like ben moved in and they immediately had a new channel that had totally different content We had been making we had been making it like before I moved in it just didn't get done until after I moved in I mean, it's it's always important to keep in mind Like if you're an internet content creator you only have so much time to work on stuff So like if your workflow if you start devoting like all your time to this side project Obviously that's something to like watch out for but it depends on it like at the same time though I think there's a lot of potential In like for instance corrupting your kids for that to end up being a flagship channel Well, that's perfectly fine But you gotta yeah, you have to recognize that at the moment, you know That's not bringing home the bacon like a main channel Digibro video. That's all that's all be practical.  They're all up in it Like listening to the pcp right now while you're performing it and are every time you record So sometimes it's weird, but other times it's fine And incidentally, uh, like just the other day the the new we Agua I put out had like a thing filmed By michelle who was just around as I film my little hillary section I had a music video that was filmed by may yesterday.  There you go. It was great I wasn't that uh, uh, well, okay, it wasn't but I'm just making a joke. Uh, we hit spot What are you rocking? I'm a thing No, it's very important. Everyone knows that it's not me and me The first thing we thought was like wow did you wow? He really did it. He really did it this time. Anybody doesn't know There's literally porn um in my youtube in my uh music video for this song Which didn't look nearly as apparent when I was editing it Like okay because my monitor is so dark. I thought that this was like really obscured and like, uh, May couldn't even see it. She was like, oh, I don't see anything. Yeah.    No I don't have enough music to make it across the store it takes me like four minutes and the strong is like two minutes We need this playlist. What are you? What's your hot dog bun song?   I know what you're talking about Okay, guys, let's just give a meme shout out to our boys on the twitter just to to to placate them temporarily Okay, here we go at dj felis asks. How do I get a gf? What's your meme answer for this question become famous? Just become famous.  Um, just talk to girls Ben what the fuck? Oh wait. Is this a meme? I've heard.  You said you said meme answer. Oh, I ruined it I'm cutting this out Now all these guys are going to actually get gf. No, no, no, I wasn't paying attention. Um rape I would say uh log on to runescape 2007 And just farm for gold until you have enough to buy the best places uh grand exchange in varic Sometimes fall though, but yeah, oh Don't go on bridge though. That's where all the them that what you were critical thoughts. What do you? Yeah Bridge Oh, excellent Good, thank you everyone. I think it's time. We shut it down. I think we it's time to power off this utilitarianism machine. We've got here Uh, thank god. We've made so much progress for humanity here today. Uh, really gonna be useful We've really made a difference whining about thing whining about topics. We don't really understand on this podcast that no one watches Yeah, you're not wrong. Uh, that weed has really hit the spot All right, we're done. All right. Thank you everyone for listening Hey, uh patreon.com slash the procrastinators bonus episodes insomnia episodes out There's there's a total of 12 bonus episodes just like five dollars. You get them all one dollar. You get into our patreon chat It's a fun time.   It's going to be on everybody's channels You're gonna want to look for the radcon three playlist, which I think already exists and has one video like the um The thing like I would watch that playlist. That's where everything's going to be you can subscribe to a playlist You should but you can't so watch everybody's channel radcon three Coming in a week it's kind of it's going to roll out over time But there will definitely be some during the con so let's keep let's prepare ourselves for that journey All right, thanks everybody. We'll see you next time Why why do we do that? I don't know


Thank you so much for having me here as a little surprise today. I was a little worried about speaking at the conference because I didn't know if I was going to end up being after someone presenting on something very technical about everything you all have been learning about, but hearing Gary and Michael's story so personal, talking about their own journeys kind of paved the way for what I want to share with you. So a little bit about me. I'm native Oregonian and grew up in Portland so it's nice to be back in my hometown. I'm in Eugene right now and I'm about to embark on graduate school for counseling for couples and family therapy. I'm very, very interested in the kind of modalities that get people out of their heads and embodied. I think that is really where counseling and therapy is going and floating is a very exciting way to engage people on that level. Without further ado, I want to again thank you so much for being here and participating in something so meaningful. And I'm going to share a piece with you that I wrote after my first float through the Writers Program that float on dead. It's called Doors in the Sky. Invited to experience a saltwater float last minute, my answer is an easy yes. I've journeyed deep inside during a Nipi, a sweat lodge ceremony, a handful of times, and those ceremonies pushed me a long way out of comfort before retrieving me. I feel more curious than fearful about sensory deprivation. Naked and rinsed, I close the tank door behind me and slosh into the dimly lit pool. As soon as my whole body is settled, weightlessness reaches my consciousness and I feel relief. Air bubbles pop noisily out of my ears and warm salty water backfills the canals. I reach over and turn the lights out, easing myself into darkness. The next thing I notice is the sound of breaths and a thudding heartbeat, and I think about how babies might hear their mother's hearts and lungs, just like this in utero. For a while, my thoughts skip around erratically, like lightning bolts, and soon my mind tires of its own compulsivity.  Work stress intrudes unpleasantly, and so does the relentless babble, am I good enough? Are all the problems my fault? Will things ever get better? Did I do everything wrong? Am I wrong? Eventually, my preoccupations fall completely away, and I realize with a great deal of relief that I am a solid state under all those tumultuous thoughts. Eventually, I sink fully into this native calm, surrendering to the greater truth of I am whole and undisturbed. It's time to journey now. Where am I? I open my mind's eye, and it is a gray evening. I see a late winter garden with nothing growing in it. Is this my garden? Yes, I hear. I approach a raised bed and plunge my hands into the soil. Can I grow something here? Yes, but you must clear the soil first. I rummage around in the black moist earth for a while. Soon my hands collide with dark things, hard things, excuse me, and I start to pull them out of the bed and set them down on the ground beside. They are bones, skulls, arm bones, leg bones, bony hands, bony feet, dismembered beings that beg to be remembered. I dig until it is dark and moonlit. I dig until there's nothing left but soil and collect the sad bones in my arms. I set them all down on a potting bench and begin to dust off the soil, revealing clean white surfaces beneath. I tell them I'm sorry they have all come apart. I start to cry. I weep because I don't know how to put them back together correctly. My tears wash them the rest of the way clean, and they begin to self-organize, to reassemble, to remember. I stand back as they become partial bodies, half bodies, then eventually there are several whole bodies. The skeletons blink and fade and then become people dressed in clothes, wearing glasses, walking around together slowly. I realize they're my ancestors, my kin. I have never met any living relative. And though I've longed each day of my life to be reunited, this will be the first time. I'm filled with hope and grief and know that I must speak to each of them, must face them all. One by one they approach me and look into my face with love. They whisper messages lighter and softer than summer wind. They reach out, they hold my hand. They each have gifts for me to remember them by, as I must let each one of them go to the great beyond forever. They need me to liberate them. My maternal grandfather gives me a pocket watch, maternal grandmother a spatula, paternal grandfather a pocket knife and a hatchet, paternal grandmother a shell or a whale bone hair comb. My older brother gives me a harmonica and my little sister gives me a lollipop. With each interaction I weep with sadness and express my gratitude. I caress their faces, squeeze their hands, hug them. Each one whispers goodbye and then wanders over the grassy hill to a door in the sky. They open their doors, enter the light and close the star-speckled sky behind them. I cry hard and the rush of pressure into my ears and sinuses is very forceful. So are my sobs which echo in the float chamber and threaten to shake me out of my reverie. But I sink back into the scene and realize it's time to face my parents and let them go as well. My psyche resists, next time maybe I can face them. No, it's time and you can do it. So I wait and they come around. I've never seen their faces. My mother approaches me first and my sobs become uncontrollable. She's so soft and beautiful and much smaller than I would have predicted. She offers me a luminous red glass heart and we hold each other for a long time. Let me go, please. I will never really be gone, you know. I desperately do not want to let her go, but I do. She finds her door in the sky and the stars unfold her, closing the door behind her. My father approaches me last. Child, you are amazing and we will always be with you on the other side. Know that you are as whole, know that you are whole and to keep these gifts close to you. Here is my gift to you. My father has made me a lush cloak of ferns. He drapes it around me gently and places a crown of flowers onto my head. He holds my face, looks at me with utter love and he smiles. He turns and walks to the star-scattered horizon and opens his door to the sky. He enters this tomb and it closes perfectly around him. One last great wave of sorrow washes through me and I feel my sob shake the fern cloak and then it all settles down. My tears cascade down the cloak and they call forth flowers. There, an assertion. There, a morning glory. There, a lily. Tiny green frogs venture out of the fronds and let the moonlight wash over their smooth backs. Moths emerge in a light on flowers to drink nocturnal sweetness. I gather the gifts of my ancestors into my arms and breathe. The glass heart becomes a real heart and it beams joy through my whole body extending beyond me in a golden corona.  I am free to hope for anything now. Free to plant the garden soil that once was filled only by bones. Thank you.