back to the NPTEL course on game theory. In this session we discuss about evolutionary stability. So, here we consider a non-zero sum games and in particular we look at a symmetric game. So, we consider a symmetric game with a payoff matrix A. So, let me introduce some notation. So, the set of all pure strategies are we are writing it E1, E2, E, M. There are M pure strategies because it is a symmetric game. This is M by M game and mixed strategies are nothing but delta which are given by X in R, M such that X1 plus to X, M is 1 and all of them are non-negative. This is the set of all mixed strategies and the payoff function mixed payoff function pi X, Y is nothing but X transpose Ay. This is nothing but of course if I write it Aij Xiyj of course ij both of them from 1 to M. So, we are considering a symmetric game and these are the notations that mean. So, what is this evolutionary game? So, we are interested in evolutionary games. So, let us consider a large population. There is a large population and then all the people have to choose one of these strategic choices available to them. So, let us assume that they are all playing the pure strategies. So, each person is associated with some pure strategy. So, now you randomly pick some a pair of people. So, if then if you randomly pick a pair of people then they will play this game with their strategies. So, now what is the population state here? A population state is basically nothing but the fraction of people who are playing the let us say pure strategy 1, fraction of people playing pure strategy 2 likewise. So, that is going to be the state of the population. So, the state of the population essentially tells you the fraction of people who are playing the pure strategy even fraction of people who are playing E2 likewise. Now, suppose if some set of people who are somehow forced to play something else fraction of people. Now, when those fraction of people are playing let us say some other strategy. That means they are programmed to play something else. Now, when you look at this population now again randomly pick. So, now the some of them are playing the original incumbent strategy and some people who are particularly from the this fraction of people they will be playing something else overall what exactly is the average payoff a person gets. Now, if this average payoff that a person gets how is this different from the average that a person who is modified to use something else we would like to compare with them. When you compare these 2 things what we are going to get is this notion of evolutionary stable strategy. So, let me introduce you this notation completely. So, the large population and they are playing this symmetric game. So, incumbent strategies this is x they said this is x 1, x 2, x m. So, x 1 tells you the fraction of people who are playing the pure strategy 1 this is fraction of people who are playing x 2, e 2 this is the fraction of people who are playing em. Now, so epsilon fraction of individuals they we call them as a mutants. So, let us say they play. So, in the new population the new state 1 minus epsilon plays x and epsilon are playing y. So, what is the average fitness here?  So, therefore, if you pick an individual there that distribution is going to be epsilon y plus 1 minus epsilon x. So, pi x epsilon y this is basically. Now, what about the y individuals they will be getting pi y epsilon plus 1 minus epsilon x this is going to be the sink. Now, what the definition is that x is said to be evolutionary stable strategy denoted by E SS if for each y not equals to x there exists some number epsilon bar which is something between 0 and 1 such that this pi x epsilon y plus 1 minus epsilon x this should be bigger than pi y epsilon x plus 1 minus epsilon x for all epsilon less than epsilon bar. So, in fact, 0 less than epsilon. So, whenever this a fraction is the mutant population is playing y the average fitness the x individuals is getting that is this pi x epsilon y plus 1 minus epsilon x if their average fitness is higher than the average fitness that the mutant individuals get then we call that particular incumbent strategy as evolutionary stable. So, what are some interesting consequences and before that this I would like to say that this epsilon bar is called invasion barrier. So, if epsilon bar if the mutant population becomes larger then this x may not satisfy this condition. So, this condition is required to satisfy only for a small epsilon bar and this epsilon bar depends on y it need not be uniform if epsilon bar is independent of y then this is called uniform invasion barrier. So, let us now rewrite this. So, what is the condition that we have pi x epsilon y plus 1 minus epsilon x is strictly greater than pi y epsilon y plus 1 minus epsilon x. This is true for all 0 less than epsilon less than epsilon bar and of course now let me rewrite this one because pi is linear in any of the variable when the other variable is fixed if I do that one this is nothing but epsilon pi y epsilon pi x y plus 1 minus epsilon times pi x x. Now, this one thus the right hand side is going to be equal to epsilon pi y pi y y plus 1 minus epsilon pi y x. So, therefore this term is greater than close to this. So, I can rewrite this this implies epsilon pi x y minus pi y y plus 1 minus epsilon pi x x minus pi y x this is greater than 0. So, let me rewrite the next slide epsilon times pi x y minus pi y y plus 1 minus epsilon pi x x minus pi y x this is greater than 0. This is true for all epsilon between 0 and epsilon bar of course for all y of course epsilon bar is depends on a y. Now, let epsilon go x to 0 if I let epsilon goes to 0 this term simply goes to 0 and this term converges to pi x x minus pi y x greater than or equals to 0. So, this implies pi x x is greater than equals to pi y x for each y in delta. Now, remember our game is a symmetric game. Therefore, pi x x greater than equals to pi y x is the payoff function that player 1 is getting and same the other player is also going to get. So, therefore, this when player both the players are when player 1 is fixing x player 2 when player 2 fixes x for player 1 deviating from x to y is not profitable. The unilateral deviation is not profitable for player and being a symmetric game the same thing happens with other player this immediately implies x comma x is a Nash equilibrium. In fact, this is a symmetric Nash equilibrium. So, what is interesting thing here is that the proposition is that every ESS is a symmetric Nash equilibrium. If x is a evolutionary stable strategy, then it is always a symmetric Nash equilibrium. In fact, in the following proposition following theorem, we in fact, provide one characterization for the ESS. So, let me make the statement theorem the following are equivalent the one x is ESS x is symmetric Nash equilibrium. And if y is a best response of x then pi x y is strictly greater than pi y y this is true for all of course as I said for all y which is best response. What is the best response of x here? It means pi x comma x is same as pi y comma x whenever y is best response to x pi x x is same as pi y x then pi x y has to be bigger than strictly bigger than pi y y. So, what is here few points which I would like to say I am simply calling x as a symmetric Nash equilibrium. So, remember this is a symmetric game both players are going to play same strategy in a symmetric equilibrium. Therefore, x what I mean by x is symmetric Nash equilibrium is actually x comma x as a symmetric Nash equilibrium. Now, let us try to prove. So, we already have shown the following inequality if x is ESS implies epsilon times pi x y minus pi y y plus 1 minus epsilon pi x comma x minus pi y comma x this is greater than 0 this comes from the definition of ESS. Now, if we observe it from here already we mentioned that letting epsilon goes to 0 we show that x is a symmetric Nash equilibrium. So, therefore, this part is already done. Now, to show the next part this part note that if this condition pi xx is equals to pi y x happens this becomes 0. Therefore, this term disappears what we will get is that epsilon times pi x y minus pi y y greater than 0 now epsilon can be taken away. So, this is exactly the condition that is required. Therefore, 1 implies 2 is clear. Now, what is now required is to prove the other way. So, now we will prove the other way. So, now 2 implies 1. So, what are the condition that we have x is symmetric Nash equilibrium then we have pi x y is strictly bigger than pi y y whenever pi x comma x is same as pi y comma x. So, this is now let us try to prove that y belongs to delta and of course, y not equals to x that we have to take.  So, this is nothing but so pi x y epsilon and pi y y. So, therefore, that is going to be epsilon into pi x y minus pi y y. Yes, we already have seen this inequality then that and then 1 minus epsilon pi xx minus pi y x. Now, first thing is that we know that x is a symmetric Nash equilibrium. Therefore, this is always greater than equals to 0. So, this is always greater than equals to 0. Then what we really need to show is that we need to show this is greater than 0 that is what we need to show. So, therefore, this is always positive if y is a best response this is going to be 0. So, let us assume if y if y belongs to best response of x then this is a this is anyhow greater than equals to 0, but this can this is also greater than 0 by the hypothesis. Therefore, this is also strictly greater than 0 this is greater than equals to 0 this strictly greater than 0. Therefore, this whole is strictly greater than 0. Now, let us take y not best response. If y is not a best response then first thing is that this is going to be strictly greater than 0 and we have no idea what happens to this. So, this can be anything negative positive whatever it is, but no important thing is that as epsilon becomes smaller and smaller this butler term the term in the red box goes to 0 whereas this term is strictly greater than 0. Therefore, for sufficiently small epsilon this entire sum will be strictly greater than 0. Therefore, for any y there is always some epsilon bar such that for all epsilon less than epsilon bar this term is going to be greater than 0 that proves to implies 1. So, therefore, so this immediately proves that this proposition is true. So, whenever x is an ESS x is also symmetric Nash equilibrium further this condition holds and this condition is this if and only if. So, now we have proved this. Now, we will see some interesting examples. One important example here in evolutionary game theory is Hawke-Dove. So, in a Hawke-Dove game what happens is that this is a population of words the two behaviors there are two behaviors one is hawk behavior and other is dove behavior. So, when two hawks encounter that means two species having this hawk behavior encounter they fight for a resource when they both of them fight for a resource one of them will lose the resource to the other only one of them will get it. Whereas, when hawk and dove encounter the dove automatically gives the resource to hawk and dove does not get any injury or anything. Similarly, when two dose encounter they just simply split the resource. So, let us say if the resource is worth v and cost of fighting is c. So, what happens if when two hawks come both of them are fighting. So, therefore, the resource is v and one of them will concede. Therefore, the c the cost. So, therefore, the other guy gets v and other is this c. So, in a sense v minus c is basically the resource on an average we get v minus c by 2. And if hawk and dove encounter that is going to be the hawk will get v and dove will get nothing and both are dose then they simply split the resource. Now, this is the game that we will continue discussing this in the next lecture and we will see the evolutionary stable strategy of this particular game and see how the behavior what exactly is the evolutionary stable. We will stop here.


So thank you for coming for my talk on travel routers. This is something that I just found very exciting to work on. So my name is Michael Sasongin. I'm director of research and data at Cinec and Cinec is a company that leverages the crowds to find vulnerabilities in our clients. So if you like discovering vulnerabilities, if you like hacking, this is something that you might want to try out because it's sort of a way to do real world vulnerability discovery and fight, get paid to do it. So in the process of doing that, we also work on a lot of IOT devices and I had a problem. I found myself to be a digital nomad for a while and I was sort of moving around from an Airbnb to a cafe and I had to connect all my devices like laptops, phones, my wife's laptop and her phones as well and it's just, it became really annoying to do that. So I was trying to find something that would solve this problem for me. So this was the motivation for discovering a whole lot of sections of devices that I did not know existed before this called the travel routers. In fact, I have one right here. This is about the size of this device. There are essentially, there are tons of them out there. I picked this Hutu travelmate because it is very reasonably priced.  It provides some security. It's very convenient to use, et cetera, et cetera, et cetera and I figured, okay, I'll try it out. So I bought one. It was really useful because I was able to have all my devices connected to it using Wi-Fi and then I would just connect it to the cafe network, cafe Wi-Fi and it would sort of just bridge the two together.  I felt a little bit of a warm and cozy because I was connecting to my own network using network address translation. So I thought, hmm, this is interesting. I like to hack things. Does it actually make me secure or worse, does it make me less secure? And so I started doing some analysis. First thing I did, of course, network scan, see what services are available. I wasn't surprised to find that HTTP port 80 was open and so this is for the admin interface. However, when I actually looked at the admin interface, I found that it had two services responding to me. One was light HTTPD, which is very popular and I was very familiar with that, but the other one was called VS HTTPD. It's a little bit confused for a while. Clearly there is some sort of proxy going on in the background, but what is this service? So I went out to Shodan because that's what you would do when you are curious about something. And I searched for it. I found a few devices, not many of them are out there. I would expect that a lot of them are actually hidden behind private networks, so you wouldn't be able to see them. But there are still a few of them that kind of come up once in a while. Primarily in the area of Asia, so Japan, China, I didn't find any North Korea, but there were some Taiwan devices. So I knew they were out there somewhere and there was some importance to them. Then I kind of turned on the device itself and I decided to start reverse engineering it. First I downloaded the firmware from the Hutu main page. And that was easy. You just click download. It turned out to be a raw archive which you can just extract. And what you get back is a shell script. And at the bottom of the shell script there is a file system attached. It was GZ compressed but you know, that's trivial. Once I mounted it, I found that it was an XT2 file system and it had more stuff in there. And primarily there was something called the root FS. I figured okay, that's interesting. It's a little Indian squash file system. And that's kind of consistent with what you would expect with a flash based device. So I mounted that. I looked at the configuration and I found that it had this IOS service in reference from the elite HTTP config files. And I thought that this is what was the VS HTTP implementation of. So I didn't know what else to do. I kind of went around some more. I found a shadow file. I saw the hash. I quickly threw it and John the Ripper I felt really elite with that one because it took a couple of days to crack it. But I didn't know what else to do with it because I didn't really have a new place to use this password. Going online I found that there was some research done on other devices from Hutu such as the original, the Titan and the Nano. They're all kind of similar in a way. However I had the elite and it didn't have tellness anywhere on the device. I thought, hmm, what are the chances that the vendor would actually make custom firmware for each and every one of them? It's probably all the same and they just disable Telnet on my device to make it a little more secure. And sure enough when I did a search on the firmware I found that it had open Telnet that I say it's script that would actually enable Telnet on the device. But I still didn't have any way to run it until I realized that I could just fake an update of the firmware and I can tell it to execute this file and enable Telnet for me. But when I tried that, even though there were no signatures and no real validation done on this firmware, for some reason it did not execute. And I didn't really know what else to do. I just kind of continued on reverse engineering. Throwing the iOS service into IDA I eventually found this function called checkFirmware2 which apparently does a checksum validation on the firmware that you upload. And of course there was no signature or nothing like that and I said, okay, well I can just generate my own checksum. So I did that. I just pulled it up there and the firmware was, the device was very happy to accept it. And it just executed open Telnet data stage for me. It said there was an error in updating the device because I didn't exit one so it automatically means that there was a problem. However, doing this action enabled Telnet and I was able to receive a show. I was able to execute commands and essentially do dynamic analysis, download the debugger attached to any services, et cetera. So this was very happy news for me. In the course of reverse engineering I also found that the developers that they were writing in C++ because most of the internal state was in the structures that looked awfully like objects. There would be buffers inside, there was internal state and it would usually be followed by function pointers right at the bottom of the structure itself. Usually there would be initialization, they would assign function pointers to the actual structure and when those functions are used every time it would pass in the pointer to the structure itself. So it is very much like this pointer in C++. So that was kind of cool. In and of itself it's not really a problem. However, it just feels very hairy situation when you have lots of buffers and function pointers on dynamic allocation next to each other. So immediately I thought okay, what kind of memory protections does it provide? I found that it had partial virtual spatial randomization. So the binary itself and the heap were at static locations. However, the libraries and the stack were randomized so they moved around. But there was nothing else, there were no stack canaries, there were no heap protections and of course control flow integrity would be way too advanced for this device. Alright, so then I started looking for vulnerabilities, start fuzzing. I kind of honed in on the f name parameter of the get request because I saw that f name was actually responding to me verbatim, whatever I put in there it would come back inside of an XML file. So I thought I wonder what happens there. After about two seconds I found that there was a buffer of a flow and what was happening is that the developer was copying the value of the parameter into a buffer on the stack using sprint f which is of course an unbounded copy essentially. And they, you know, it just quickly overflowed and I was able to control the return address on the stack. So I did that and I was really excited and I thought man I have this vulnerability so quickly I can just exploit and get execution on it because I can control the program counter. However, what I found is that even though I can control the program counter I couldn't point it anywhere useful. I tried pointing it to the main binary and the heap because they were static and I could predict those addresses. But I had to, but those things were allocated on a low memory so I had to insert a null somehow into the string. Fortunately I couldn't do it literally and I couldn't use sprint f's own ending null, terminator null for this address. That's because of this format string that I was using. Then I tried to use red tulip C attacks, you know, see if I can point it to some gadget or directly to the stack because everything was essentially executable. Those things move around so I would have to have some sort of information leak attack in order to actually execute it. But I decided to move on. I started fuzzing other fields. For example, the cookie field immediately overflowed for me as well. This one was a little bit more complex. This was a heap overflow. What was happening is that the developer allocated one of those object structures which was called CGI tab. Inside there was a buffer of 1024 bytes. Now in order to fill the buffer they would take the value from the cookie and just use stir copy which was obviously unbound and put it in there. Immediately I thought okay, well if it's 1024 buffer I will just send 1036 bytes and overwrite one of the function pointers of the structure. So I did that and about 100 or so instructions later this function would be used. And I was able to overflow and control the program counter by changing the function pointer of the structure. And immediately when it would jump to that location I could have the control there. Now I was really excited about this because there were a lot less restrictions. It was a stir copy and there was no format to deal with. So what I did is I actually pointed it back into the heap because that's where the value of the post-messages body was being stored. And post-message body is pretty much designed for any sort of data. So I could insert pretty much any value and I didn't have to encode my shell code and I just was able to gain execution that way. All right. So now I can actually show you a demo of this. I thought well if I'm an attacker and I have this exploit what is it that I can do? So this demo shows pretty much everything that we've talked up to this point. I was able to attach with a debugger, I was able to get Telnet in there and then I attached with the debugging client with GDB. So then I started looking for some coffee and went to this website. I thought okay everything is working, the device is fine. I throw the exploit and now we kind of just let the program run. We can see it's working just fine. And then we see sort of the damage that the exploit has done to the device. So when I refresh the same website we can see that I'm able to inject JavaScript and essentially demonstrate I'm in the middle attack. And the way it was done is basically execute an IP table's rules that allows me to redirect HTTP traffic to somewhere else, to some proxy that I've created. I mean you might say well I mean so what? Of course it's HTTP. It's vulnerable. It's all in clear text. It doesn't everybody just use SSL now. Unfortunately not. I mean according to Google's transparency report there are still tons and tons of very popular websites such as cnn.com and vbc.co.uk that still use HTTP for a lot of portions of their website. And really I just need one that will allow me to inject JavaScript in there in order to install keyloggers or launch browser attacks that way. So there are multiple ways to actually exploit the router and to trigger these vulnerabilities. First is you can go through the access RF. Let's say if an attacker visits a web forum and there is some sort of request that has an F name parameter in there. Now even though I wasn't able to exploit it for this demo it doesn't mean that the device doesn't have any other attacks. And so if it was susceptible to other overflows through the unauthenticated get requests we could potentially do it without even being close to the device itself. The other option is from the external Wi-Fi. Like I said this is a traveler router. It connects to all kinds of networks with questionable cyber hygiene in there. And so there could be already vulnerable to exploitation from there. And then of course from inside the Wi-Fi itself what if you connect an Android device that has malware that specifically targets the infrastructure. For example there was one called Switcher which would look for routers to attack from the Android device. All right so pretty much getting to the end of this point so this was a lot of fun. I mean these vulnerabilities were reported to the vendor and they were recorded in the CVE database. You know the stack overflow was very easy to fix. Just specifically use SN print F which is bounded. Or in more general terms you can use stack canaries which wouldn't prevent the vulnerability itself but at least it would terminate the attack vector and you wouldn't be able to take advantage of it. The heap overflow is a little bit harder to deal with. It basically just use a bounded string copy. Or you can also in more general terms you can try to encode your function pointers such as something that Windows does. But unfortunately as you can see here the NSA has a pattern on that so we don't get to use it. All right so why would somebody actually try to attack travel routers or any sort of infrastructure? I mean there are a lot of use cases for this. First one is attribution application. You know if I'm an attacker and I want to hide my exploits you know I may want to blame someone else for it so I can exploit the infrastructure and then use that as a jumping point for my attacks. Of course stealing user information, you know authentication tokens, user names, passwords, pretty much anything that is unencrypted I can start collecting from this device. And then also I can manipulate the user information. You know you can use so in a demonstration where I was able to inject JavaScript so that means I can inject exploits, I can manipulate what they see, etc, etc. And of course the last one is getting a foothold into other networks. It's a travel device so it's going to be touching a lot of different networks. If I want to propagate as fast as possible I may try to use this device to launch attacks into you know Airbnb's, hotels, enterprises or what have you. So I reported this to the vendor they were quite happy to receive it. They said hey, thanks for finding these vulnerabilities. However our entire product team is off on Spring Festival. I said to myself this is kind of cool. I want to be part of that. It sounds like fun. Then it turns out this was actually the Chinese New Year. I didn't know this and so this was like a really cool cultural thing to learn. And of course as soon as the Chinese New Year was over everyone got back and they promptly responded by sending me a patched version personally but not into anyone else. And about a couple of weeks later after I noticed that it wasn't published on the website I said hey can you guys like make this public so that people are not exploited by anyone. So they did. They just said that their release cycle was a little bit slower than it is to send me an email. So that was cool. They were super nice about it. So what did we learn from this process? I mean you know the saying don't roll your own crypto. Well I think there should be a saying that says don't roll your own custom CGI web server. Because those things are notoriously complex. There's a lot of work to be done and there's a lot of parsing happening in there. And so really either get a lot of people, get a lot of advice or use something that has been tested by the community. You know when there's due response I had a pretty good experience in this case. If you can use something like OpenWRT just because like I said it's been tested and used by other people. I mean to me exploiting routers is a lot of fun. I didn't know MIPS before this and so it was kind of cool to learn all this process. And to be honest I was really surprised that people still use Turcopies and Sprint Ops just like they did in 1999. All right. So if you enjoyed this and you just want to chat about this I mean thank you for coming. It's been a real pleasure to be here and if you have more questions please ask ahead. And if you want to catch me in the hallways or online you can find me there as well. I love to talk about this stuff. I will also put about four different articles on my blog describing all the processes I've gone through and more information about reverse engineering at debugtrap.com. So thank you for your attention.


Ladies and gentlemen, and it's a pleasure to speak on this subject. In fact, I was invited, and I should actually say that the title of my talk is important. I'm talking about, principally talking about what I regard as the lack of evidence of I began for treatment of heroin dependence specifically. I was invited by the International Network of People Who Use Drugs to give this talk and I'm grateful to them for that invitation. And as a stalwart supporter of user organizations, of course, I accepted. The form of the invitation specified that they wanted me to provide a harm reductionist scientist critique on Ibogaine. And having accepted that invitation, that's exactly what I'll do. Now, obviously this is an area where there are a wide difference of views. I think it's important before we go through the discussion to emphasize the values that I think many of us in this room, many of us at this conference hold dear as central values for harm reduction. And that is a tolerance and respect for different views to base policy and practice on evidence and regarding the reduction of harm as the paramount aim of our activities. Before dealing with Ibogaine specifically, I think it's important to talk a little bit about the regulation of drugs. And I noticed that Howard said that the goal of his activities, what he'd like to see is that Ibogaine will become available as a regulated drug. And that's the notion of looking at medications in terms of them being regulated is certainly something that resonates with me. There was an era when medications were not regulated and that was not a happy era. Medications have been progressively regulated throughout the 20th century and it's been an important protection for all people, but particularly for vulnerable populations. And I would certainly include injecting drug users in that category. I'm going to talk about a little bit about how medications are regulated, whether Ibogaine is an effective treatment for heroin dependence, whether Ibogaine actually assists heroin detoxification, whether it's a safe drug, whether we should be doing, some people should be doing more Ibogaine research and discuss a little bit about Ibogaine advocacy before going on to conclusions. Now as I mentioned, the area of medical regulation of medications has been I think an important advance in medicine during the 20th century and the whole system got shaken up very considerably in the 1960s due to the catastrophe that occurred when Thalidomide was made available and caused large numbers of deformities in children where it was given to their pregnant mothers. So after Thalidomide, a new concept developed in medical regulation throughout the world and that is to regard all new drugs were considered to be ineffective and unsafe until proven otherwise and that's a central concept in medical regulation. And all developed countries have accepted this approach for all new drugs without exception. So drugs used for diabetes and breast cancer and heart disease and I think drugs used for the treatment of drug dependence should be no exception. And I think if we want to argue the case that Ibogaine should be exempt from that general rule I would like to see what kind of a case can be made for why drug users should be exposed to the risks of medications of unknown effectiveness and unknown safety. So let's turn to the question of whether Ibogaine is effective as a treatment for heroin dependence. I think many of us in this room would recognize that we badly need new treatments for heroin dependence. A lot of people around the world who start using heroin, not all, but a lot of them get into serious difficulties and cause great grief to themselves, loved ones and their communities. We've got some good treatments for heroin dependence. We don't have nearly enough treatments for heroin dependence. So I think there'd be widespread agreement with that. Opioid substitution treatments like methadone and buprenorphine are certainly effective and safe, but we have very few treatments to offer people these days. And I would also argue that finding new treatments for heroin dependence is an even greater priority, a much greater priority than finding new agents for use in heroin detoxification. What kind of evidence do we seek when we're looking for data that shows that any kind of treatment is effective? Well, we'd like to see numbers of studies, not just one or two, but numbers of them, preferably from a number of different countries. That's not essential and certainly desirable. We'd like to see studies preferably with different kinds of designs. And we'd like to see these studies being, having rigorous designs, including if possible randomized control trials, which is still the gold standard in this area, although there's controversy about that too. And a very important criterion is the publication of studies in reputable referee journals. These are all standard for treatments of all conditions that we can think of. But I think it's beyond argument that the evidence that I've gained is effective as a treatment for heroin dependence at the moment is minimal. There are relatively few studies. It's not clear to me how many of the studies in humans have been gone before human research in ethics committees, and I think that's an area that should be a concern. Many of the studies involve small numbers of subjects. Many involve self-reported data. Follow-up periods are generally short. The quality of design is not overwhelming. Most of these studies have not been published in referee journals. And when you look at the fine print, many of them contain a lot of uncertainty about the confidence of the conclusions. There's a lot of mites and maybes and could-haves and appears to and that sort of thing. Could I again be useful for heroin detoxification? And by detoxification, let me specify that I'm talking about achieving a safely comfortable withdrawal from the drug. And therefore I'm talking about something that's short-term. For me, detoxification is not a treatment, but it's really a preview to treatment. It's an important thing to provide. It should be part of the whole system, the whole package that's provided. But it's not as critical as the need to provide new treatments. We have a very good treatment in the form of buprenorphine for heroin detoxification. But in any case, there are many more studies of using ibogaine for detoxification than there are for treatment of heroin dependence. Still the literatures in a preliminary stage and a few of the studies, as I'm aware of them, compare ibogaine as an agent with other agents for detoxification. So overall, for me, this is still the evidence is unconvincing in terms of ibogaine being useful in humans with heroin dependence in terms of its effectiveness. The supporters of ibogaine make a number of claims. They argue that ibogaine reduces drug craving. This is a kind of secondary indicator. It's helpful if it's there, if it's not there, but it still provides other benefits. Those other benefits would be regarded as much more important, such as periods of abstinence following the exposure to the drug. They also claim that it reduces opioid withdrawal signs and symptoms, and some of that evidence has been presented tonight. And there's also argument that there are some papers that claim sustained complete resolution of opioid withdrawal syndromes, but I think some of those papers, most of those papers, leave something to be desired. Really, these studies are in what could only be described as phase one. There's no, it's not a criticism. Drugs go through phases. This is the first step in studying drugs is to go through so-called phase one studies, and that's where ibogaine is at the moment. Okay. Marsh, who's certainly a supporter of ibogaine, assessed ibogaine, the ibogaine literature as follows. There have been few reports of the effects of ibogaine in humans. Anecdotal accounts of the acute and long-term effects of ibogaine have included only a small series of case reports from opioid and cocaine addicts, with observations provided for only seven and four subjects respectively. That was published in 2001. Then, same article, the use of ibogaine for the treatment of drug dependence has been based on anecdotal reports from groups of self-treating addicts that the drug blocked opioid withdrawal and reduced craving for opioids and other illicit drugs for extended time periods. And also, she mentioned on, say, objective investigations of ibogaine's effects on drug craving and the science and symptoms of opioid withdrawal have not been done in either research or conventional treatment settings. So, what can we say about the safety of ibogaine in terms of its treatment for heroin dependence? Well, the kind of data we'd like to see is lots of laboratory studies of animals, and Howard has told us about some of those. We'd like to see studies in humans, initially short-term, later in the long term. As I said, we're still in phase one. There are no phase two or phase three studies here yet. Leaven deaths have been reported. On the other hand, some of these claims have been criticized. There's also claims of severe illness in after-expersion of ibogaine. Howard's already touched on the question about possible neurotoxicity in rat experiments. I think overall, we're still at a stage where the data for the safety of ibogaine is still at a minimal stage. And we should not make the mistake of assuming that it's going to be a safe drug simply because it's organic. Should we be doing more, or should somebody be doing more research on ibogaine? Howard's absolutely right that the pharmaceutical industry generally does very little research on drugs in this area for the reason that Howard mentioned. It seemed to be stigmatizing also for pharmaceutical companies. And researchers will be very selective about what drugs they will choose to do research on, whether they're researchers in the academic area or researchers in the commercial area. And they'll generally make decisions partly on theoretical grounds, but even more so on empirical grounds. How good is the data from the studies that have been done already? And they will also base their decisions on very hard-nosed assessments of what they regard as the likelihood of achieving success. Another problem in this area is that there are real concerns about pharmaceutical companies having intellectual property of a drug that is obtained from a plant like this. So should people just use ibogaine? Well, in my view, we've got so much experience from around the world of the high price that's been paid from cutting corners from bypassing the drug regulation, the medical regulation system. And philidomide is a case in point that went through the medical regulatory system at the time, wouldn't get through now. And we do have snakal drugs in the past and even in the present. And I think that's a drug which is actively promoted by some, yet the evidence of effectiveness is dismal and the evidence of lack of safety is quite impressive. And I hope we don't go into that. Ibogaine doesn't follow that sort of path. So I think we have to accept the assumption that ibogaine is ineffective and unsafe until evidence to the contrary emerges. Just wrapping up. So should we look at the question of advocacy for ibogaine? Well, Herbert Cleaver has said ultimately the usefulness of, or lack thereof, of ibogaine-related compounds in the treatment of addiction will rise or fall on the basis of research. He also said whether or not ibogaine is useful is a scientific question that can be answered by either by street demonstrations nor by avoiding careful control research. A scientist's obligation is to keep looking for safe and effective methods to prevent and treat this great international scourge. Finally, he said whether the actions against NIDA were ultimately helpful, harmful or insignificant in getting the desired results is not totally clear. Then he went on to say, my own view is that there may have been a short-term gain or a long-term loss because of perceived marginalisation of the drug. I won't go through these conclusions in the interest of time, but I think the main point I'd like to make is that we really, in 2008, it may be different in 2009 and beyond, we really do not have evidence that ibogaine is an effective and safe treatment for heroin dependence and nor do we have evidence that it's an effective and safe agent for use in heroin detoxification. And like I said, ART is one of the government's main reference group meetings, so we will take some questions as opposed to statements at this time for Alex, and then people will want to challenge some of the assumptions in Alex's presentation from the audience after, and we can do that. Hi, I'm Dr. Alberto Sola. I run an ibogaine clinic in Cancun, Mexico. And how can you say that there's no good evidence of effectiveness in the craving and the use of drugs when there is several hundred papers with rats and dogs with self-administered ibogaine and cocaine that do decrease those self-administered drugs when injected with ibogaine? Well, it's not just my assessment. It's also the assessment of Marsh, as I just showed you, who regards herself as an advocate for ibogaine. And it's because it's not just the existence of multiple publications. The publications have to conform to a certain type and standard, and the publications don't conform to those types of standards. There are preliminary studies, there are small numbers, self-reported... I'm not talking about the humans. I'm talking about the animal models that have proved that it does reduce the consumption of heroin and cocaine. Those of you who didn't hear down the back the question is what about the laboratory studies. Laboratory studies are interesting, but they form the basis for how scientists will decide whether or not to investigate a drug in human subjects. But on their own, they are not regarded as proof of efficacy or of safety. They are interesting, and they help to decide whether or not to proceed with studies in humans. But on their own, they're not evidence of efficacy or safety. Just to update the data for efficacy that you presented from Deborah Mash, the evidence for efficacy and acute withdrawal are two case series with about 65 patients showing the resolution of withdrawal symptoms. There is also the series in regards to drug dependence, which was made in the heroin remanence, that was presented to NIDA that was the basis for their decision to go forward with their NIDA Ibogaine project. That was about 52 patients who were followed for a period of up to a couple of years. About a third of them had abstinence beyond the six-month period of follow-up. That's a treatment effect that's roughly equivalent to about six months in a therapeutic community. And then there's also the existence of the Ibogaine cell culture itself, the rate uncontrolled experiment as Frank Vachi has referred to, in which over 50% of people who take Ibogaine have done so for the treatment of opioid detoxification, for which there's not much of a placebo effect. And this is expanded on the base of word of mouth by about 30% over a five-year period, annual 30% growth rate, so it's quadrupled since 2001 to 2006. Nonetheless, I would agree that this is not the stuff of which drug approval is made. And I think there's two perspectives from which to look at this. The perspective from which I look at it is an interesting pharmacological paradigm, which I've referred to, and those are quoting my exact words that I've published. But I think the perspective you're looking at is someone who's responsible for implementing drug policy on a national level, or making drugs available on a national level. And we need to differentiate whether you're talking about the progression through preclinical phase one, phase two, and phase three is what you require. Presently, I think the preclinical proof of concept model is very strong. The toxicological evidence was sufficient for the FDA to approve going forward with phase one study. Phase one study reached the dose of four milligrams per kilogram, which is not the dose that's commonly used for detoxification. And the trail ends there. So I think from your perspective, you're looking at a drug that is somewhere into phase one with phase two and phase three not completed, and you're saying that the drug approval process has not been satisfied. And I think that's objectively an unarguable point of view. But I think also in terms of whether this is a scientific paradigm, it's interesting that all of the evidence, including the accounts of those treated and the existence of the subculture and the confluence of the animal model with the human model in conditions where there's no placebo effect to speak of, the Cochrane reviews, which are the apotheosis of evidence-based medicine, there are 56 studies that they felt using conventional methods, clonidine, our alpha-2 agonist, methadone, bubrenorphine. There are 56 studies that they felt in their reviews were sufficient evidence of quality to include. Only three could have a placebo condition, and all three of those, any treatment effect. In fact, any treatment was quite robust. So the idea that in an uncontrolled study you can observe a treatment effect of opioid withdrawal I think has some credibility. But again, I think the major difference that we're talking about here is whether you're looking at this at a national level, as you are, in terms of implementing drug availability, or whether you're looking at this from a scientific context in terms of evidence for an interesting effect. Another question that comes up, given the question, given the fact that there is really no clear prospect for I being to become available anytime soon, or I go to opioids to become available anytime soon, what is to be done by the individual who has failed other treatments and turned side again? I don't think there's an easy answer for this one, but I was wondering what your view is on that. Well, just to respond to what you said before I answer the question, there seem to be two parts to what you're saying, and the first part is addressing the question of evidence of effectiveness and safety, and I think we seem to have very similar view on that, that if we put that in terms of the level of evidence that's required for regulatory purposes to live against way short of that at the moment, then the second part of that is whether research should be done, and whether we like it or not, that decision is not going to be made by people in this room, it's going to be made by senior people in NIDA or in pharmaceutical companies or in academia, not necessarily in the United States. Let's not make that assumption. Just in terms of... I'm flattered by your assumption that I have some degree of power in my own country that we disabuse you of that straightaway, that my views are not... I regret to say not true with respect in which I think they deserve to be treated. In regard to your question about what would I say to people who might consider using Ibogaine, call me conservative if you like, but my doctor perspective, which I was asked to provide, is that people should use medications which are approved by regulatory authorities and in terms of medications, should not use medications other than that. And I don't feel at all conflicted or ambivalent about that. How about as a harm reductionist? Well, in terms of harm reduction, I think that we have plenty of evidence of other drugs that have been used outside the medical regulatory system, which have caused deaths, severe illness, and which haven't worked and which are sold as highly effective drugs. The medical literature is full of... not so long ago, people were claiming that extracts from an apricot kernel was a clear cure for cancer and that that was found to be not only ineffective, but also very damaging. Can you ask a question? I'm the 32nd Athena. Do you support clinical trials of Ibogaine? I don't have an opinion on it. I'm not really in a position to do that kind of research myself, so I wouldn't really make a decision about doing that work or not doing that work. It's not the sort of thing I do. Should we support clinical trials? It's up to you. Is there any money in desires? Hi, my name is John Lomburg and I work with a drug users group in Ireland, Ishka, it's called, and we advocate for the rights of people who are using drugs and who unfortunately maybe end up addicted to drugs and have to suffer the consequences and come with that. So within that and looking at treatment attempts to engage in treatment programs which aren't that readily available, as I'm sure everybody here is aware, it's quite difficult to get into treatment when one has made a decision to move in that direction. And there aren't enough, up to my mind, there aren't enough choices out there. You're given a corporate in the Irish perspective corporate gives us or allows us to decide to go on a methadone program if and when someone decides that they want to face or deal with the addiction. We don't have any other choices. There's no other drugs that are spoken about. So what I'd be asking is like that all treatment modalities would be considered. Now I understand this thing about trials and about having an efficacy around whether the drug is useful or not but from my perspective, drug users would use any drug if they hear about it. When I hear these comments or say 100% increase over 3 or 4 years, I mean rumor will dictate the amount of drugs used or the type of drug use or trends as they go. So I've heard about this again maybe 10 or 15 years ago or something like that. Can you ask the question now? Can I talk to the speakers? I used to be interested in it. I've never seen it. I've never experienced it. But from what I heard about it it's an interesting kind of drug. So I'm just saying about choice is around giving people the option to make choices. We're all grown, you know, we should be considered all kind of mature human beings hopefully, but you know being so just around that is our choice, thanks. Well, we agree on a lot. We agree seems to me you and me agree that this is a troubling condition for a lot of people that the treatment system leaves a lot to be desired and this is unfortunately in almost every country in the world people have difficulty getting into treatment and as you quite rightly point out when they get into treatment the options are very few. And I am ashamed to say I agree with that as someone who provides treatment I wish we could provide better treatment and more options. We have to play the cards that we're dealt with. In terms of recommending that people should use a drug of unknown effectiveness and unknown safety, as a doctor I don't advocate that as an individual I don't think it's a safe thing to do. I think that, I'm repeating myself but I think we have so many instances so many examples where panaceas have been recommended sold at high price found to be worthless and not only worthless but also dangerous and I don't think we know yet in 2008 that Ibogaine falls into that category but it might fall into that category and because of the thalidomide disaster that befell us 40 years ago I won't recommend and I won't use and I won't prescribe a drug unless I know that it is effective and that's safe.


Hey survivors in this video. I am going to be telling you why you should not feel sorry for the narcissist Please like comment share and subscribe Click the bell icon to receive notifications for my future videos If you would like to donate my PayPal links in a video description If you are interested in one-on-one coaching you can email me at Narc's private coaching at you do more.com Don't feel sorry for the narcissist I have seen a few comments in my videos where viewers have stated that they feel sorry for the narcissist This is not a good idea and it is actually very unhealthy behavior To feel sorry for them They cause so much damage and problems to themselves and the people around them They have no regard for the consequences of what they have done or are doing They do not consider the potential harm or danger As a result or effect of their actions and behaviors They are dangerous people and when you are around them, you are putting yourself at risk You are risking the possibility of harm or danger to yourself I believe that people are feeling sorry for them Because they have been through some things They are hurt so they constantly feel the need to lash out at the closest people to them But that's really no excuse for their actions A lot of people have had hurtful experiences in their past Just think about what you have been through with these narcissists And you are not doing what they are doing So what makes their situation or experiences so different That they should be allowed to take their pain out on other people There is no excuse for that If everyone did that What kind of world would we be living in? There is no excuse for their behavior When you feel sorry for the narcissist You are justifying their behavior You are saying that it's okay for them to do what they do They may not understand what they are doing Or the consequences of their actions But they know the difference between right and wrong They just don't care They are self-absorbed and lack empathy They only care about their own needs And don't mind stepping on someone to regulate their emotions or boost their self-esteem If you start feeling sorry for the narcissist Or trying to help them You are putting yourself in position to be taken advantage of They are only going to hurt you in the end And exploit you for some benefit or gain If someone is trying to hurt you You should not try to help them You are only putting yourself at risk of danger or harm They don't care about you They don't care about how you feel You may think that you could have done things differently And had a different result with them But that's exactly what they want you to think It wouldn't have made a difference if you had treated them differently Or done what they wanted you to do You still would have gotten the same result in the end Because the narcissist cannot be satisfied No matter what you do They are still going to hurt you They are still going to blame you for everything That's just how they are And nothing you do will change that You might feel like you can't let go But that's only because you're remembering the illusion The fantasy that they displayed to you At the beginning of the relationship You are associating this image with them When really it has nothing to do with them It was just something they used to lure you in They mirrored you and appealed to your own ideals They knew what you wanted to see from them So they played the roles to secure you They might have told you they wanted to establish something Significant or meaningful with you But none of that was real They were just telling you what you wanted to hear To keep you around Instead of remembering all of the fake good times with them Remember everything they did To contradict the original narrative or script You should not continue to believe in the illusion Or the fantasy While knowing that this person was manipulating Or deceiving you If they had any love, emotional connection Or real feelings for you They never would have treated you in the way that they did When people genuinely care, love or respect you They will go out of their way Not to damage their connection or bond That you have together When a person intentionally does things to hurt Or disrespect you And doesn't care about what you think or how you feel They do not have any regard for you Which means that from the very beginning They were never with you They never cared, loved or had any respect for you Any good that they appeared to do Was only to trick or deceive Or to benefit them in some way It was only designed to get whatever it is That they needed from you That's how it was so easy for them to move on Like you never meant anything to them Because you never did mean anything to them It was all an act to secure you So they could extract whatever they needed from you If you really meant anything to them It wouldn't have been that easy for them to move on They wouldn't forget about you that quickly Everything they did While they were with you was about them It was about what benefit or gain they could get from you It was never about giving anything to you Once they find another person or situation That is more beneficial or favorable to them With less effort or work Their fake, nice character disappears It disappears because they no longer need you They can get the same benefit somewhere else With less effort or work So why are they going to waste their time with you It was never about you They never cared about you It was all about them And what they could benefit or gain from you They also know that they have nothing to give you Nothing that you are really expecting or wanting from them So they know you're not going to stick around Once you've figured that out It's all about keeping you around for as long as they can To extract whatever it is that they need from you While giving the bare minimum or nothing in return Because they don't care about you They don't care about giving anything to you It was never about you It was always about them And what they needed from you Don't feel sorry for the narcissist Don't feel sorry for someone who is trying to destroy you Why should you feel sorry for them? They never felt sorry for you They never cared about all of the pain And suffering they caused you If someone shows that they care about you With their actions rather than just their words And they're hurt or going through a difficult time You can feel sorry for them You can feel sorry for good people who are hurt Or going through a difficult time If they have your best interest in mind If it's not just about them If they also take your needs or your pain into consideration Thank you for watching I hope this video resonated with you Please like, comment, share and subscribe Click the bell icon to receive notifications for my future videos If you would like to donate My PayPal link is in the video description Coaching enquiries you can email me at www.notsofevercoaching.com We have a private Reddit community Where survivors and frivers can share their experiences and knowledge If you are interested in being a part of this community You can sign up for our Patreon page The link is in the video description Check out the Naksiva Moche Dice store Where you can purchase your own Naksiva t-shirt or mug We have a variety of designs And it is a great way to support the channel The link to our Naksiva Moche Dice store Is in the video description Thank you for watching and I will talk to you soon


Governor Ben Ayade of Cross River State allegedly arrested and tortures June 12 protestors and a Fenniferra, Panda, the Christian Association of Nigerian Others ruffled feathers over President Bahá'u Ráha's Democracy Day speech. This is Plus Politics and I am Mary Anacorn. Cross River State Government has been accused of arresting and torturing protestors who came out to protest on Saturday June 12, the nation's Democracy Day. The protestors were demanding improved governance, carried placards and inscriptions such as Ayade pay old salaries and pensions. Ayade change your style of governance amongst others. Previously the Cross River State Government had warned against Democracy Day processions in the state on June 12 saying the ban on processions in the state has not been lifted. Joining us to discuss this is James Ibo. He is a legal practitioner and Alfred Mboto. He is the Permanent Secretary of Special Services, Governor's Office, Cross River State. Thank you very much gentlemen for joining us. Thank you. Thank you. All right. I'm going to start with you Mr Ibo. You are one of the people who complained about the alleged torturing and arrest by government house operatives. And first question that comes to mind is where was the police in all of this and how come government house operatives were the ones who allegedly kidnapped protesters or rather arrested protesters? Okay. What actually happened was that my client was arrested on the 11th day of June 2021 and the argument we had because he was mobilizing for the protest on the 12th. Who's your client? Abad Jalingu. Okay. Abad Jalingu is a publisher of consumer watch. He was invited by the police on the 11th and there was the same for about three hours and the outcome of his detention was that he had an agreement with the police commissioner on the nature of our process. The proposed process which was the reason why Abad Jalingu was invited and let that the same for about three hours. We had an agreement with the commissioner of police that we are going to change the venue of our meeting to the premises of Cross River watch which is Abad Jalingu's premises. That is for our meeting and celebration of June 2021. So you're telling me that you did not protest but that you rather... We protested but we followed strictly the guidelines and the advice of the commissioner of police. For instance, our process was supposed to start at the freedom back on the 9th by 9 a.m. But the commissioner of police advised that our process and demonstration would rather take place in premises of Cross River watch. And instead of 9, it was 10 o'clock to give his officers the time to mobilize and give us the necessary protection. So we refused to gather until it was 10 o'clock. When we confirmed from the police public relations officer and other police officers that whose numbers they're giving to us to contact that they were on ground. We gathered at about 10 o'clock and in the presence of the state security service and the national police, we started our meeting, we started singing and dancing within the premises of Cross River watch as agreed. And so just at the point we were about to take attendance, we have been rounded up. We noticed the convoy of the governor. They did a round turn three times twice and the third time they stopped in front of the office and ordered us to run.  So we decided rather stop before they came and boarded us into their vehicles, chlugged the police officers who were trying to talk to them that there had been no crisis. Sorry, sorry. Hold on, hold on. Did you say they flugged police officers? Is that what you said? Did you say that they flugged police officers? They shoved police officers violently. Okay, I want it to be certain. They shoved police officers violently and remember they had known them that and they wanted to go back. They bundled us into their truck, got us thoroughly beaten, they fought the best way and then also blindfolded us. So when you were blindfolded, where do you think you were taken to? Because obviously you wouldn't know where you were going to but where do you think you were taken to? Yeah, they actually, I think they actually threw us around town. Remember, they have three trucks of our clothes. We're bare-bodied. They use our clothes to tie our feet. Interesting. I'm just going to, because we're having connection issues with you, I'm going to go to Mr. Mboto. Mr. Mboto, you are obviously in charge of sudden security issues and you rent the special services on behalf of the governor's office in Cross River stage. I know I have spoken with you before on issues of insecurity in the state. Can you help us understand exactly what happened on June 12 and the claims that are being made by Mr. Ibo? Honestly speaking, I'm very, very surprised because I know that before even this time I had been on air, reminding the police, every other secret agency I've been on air, reminding every cross riverians that they burn on protest. Are you hearing me? Yes, sir. Are you getting me? The burn on protest and the large crowd gatherings were still enforced in Cross River state. The government has not provided any pressure for doing this. But the government did put out a statement. I remember seeing it on the day before June 12, that there was a ban. It was a ban on any protest. Does the government or the governor of Cross River state understand that protests are supposedly rights of every single Nigerian under the constitution? And does he understand that he doesn't have a right to ban protests but he can only ask people to not come out? But then he cannot ban protests. I'm just trying to understand if you all under that administration understand what the constitution says about it. The ban on protest had to do because of the experiences we had during the end fast. When a protest was given approval to hold and within the shortest time, it was hijacked and the destruction level was high. And so for any other person trying to make any protest here, in order to get approval from the Secretary of Justice, the police. And so that was guided on that that the government is very, very interested in making sure that the citizens are protected and what happened in Ensa does not repeat in Cross River state that was given. Are we together? Hello? I'm listening. Yes. So that was given because of the experiences we had during the end fast, which we gave every police protection was there and the whole lot came in and hijacked it. And it was said that we had to re-interate. If anybody wants to make any whatever he wants to do, he has to get the approval of the commissioner of police. And truly speaking, we have been on surveillance. We went around the whole town. I am very surprised. I'm just hearing it from what you're saying. Yes. Because I didn't see any. Like I did tell you, I've never seen any protest in Talaba. I've never seen any protest in the whole state of all those, all the items that we went around to go around and making sure that whoever that was moving, there was protection. Because I know the markets were full. Every place was normal. So you're telling me that you had no knowledge that these people were protesting or that there were a group of people protesting in front of Cross River Watch's premises or that your people who were on surveillance never had anything to do with that. So you're telling me that with all of the surveillance you did, you did not pass through the streets where there was Cross River State Watch and you didn't see any humans with placards because I saw that video on social media. And I was wondering why they were standing on the side of the street to protest but I didn't realize until now. So you're telling me you didn't see these people and that their claims are false? Yeah. I'm telling me the government should have myself, the surveillance covered everywhere across the state and in every two minutes there have been reports of what is happening here, what is happening. John, like you rightly said, when he said that they did it so that it's where the client was invited I was very happy he said, he changed the word because before I say he was arrested before he now said he was invited for the dialogue with the police and that and that. So we had a very wide group of conditional surveillance. So at any time it's fine, nothing happens in the state that I don't get. So I'm curious, I'm just going to ask you one more question and go back to James so that he can corroborate the story but I've asked you and you're telling me that you didn't see anything so why would Mr. James Ebor and his client and every other person who was arrested try to give the governor of your state a bad name. Explain to me please. I wouldn't know. Truly speaking, I wouldn't know. That may be personal to whatever because truly speaking, you can come into an interview, go around. You see that nobody in Calabar, let me use Calabar as an example. Nobody in Calabar, nobody in the state said there was any protest in Cusseman. I never saw. And all the people that were deprived from surveillance of making sure because not only before even that day, they had intelligence that they were planned attacks on the state. Remembering that this is the only state within the south side there where those who are abiding are not being attacked by what's happening in other areas. So we needed to make sure we put everything in place where those who long don't have access to coming to bring the havoc that they did to bring the answer. Alright, back to you Mr. Ebor. There was a lot of surveillance, at least by now, if not them, would have even heard it from the police too. They've not had anything. Let's bring Mr. James Ebor back into the conversation. Mr. James Ebor, can you hear me? I can hear you louder. So you have heard Mr. Emboto. He's saying that there was no protest. His men were out on surveillance. This is the first time he's hearing of this story. It sounds to him more like cock-a-boo. So again, where on planet Earth were your people protesting? Because I did see a video, but of course we do not have access to that video to be able to tell if it's real or not. But where were your people? Who arrested you? And I remember that part of your conversation was that you were rescued by the State Commissioner of Police. Explain to us where exactly you were and how the Commissioner of Police got into this conversation. Exactly.  It shows that the State Secretary advisor is inconsistent because the SSS took videos of us. The Police Commissioner, the Assistant Commissioner of Police in charge of oppression took videos of us and said, if you're an additional police officer in charge of our team, the area we were protesting within the premises of Cross River Watch also was with us. In fact, she was too violent. She almost fell into the gutter when the convoy of the governor arrived. So is either the State Secretary advisor dishonest or he's very ignorant about the Secretary's situation of Cross River Watch. Yes, there was no protest in public but within the premises of Cross River Watch. In fact, we were not only blindfolded of people. They flanted life ammunition or not. Maybe they had other plans. Maybe they had other plans and did undergoing treatment as I speak to you now. It is shameful because if you go around some people, individuals were tutoring and for the State Secretary advisor if nothing happened, he's not aware of anything strange. We were driven around some bare-bodied with our faces blindfolded. Before later, we were taken to the State Police Department we were handed over to oppression of others. They went ahead to search our premises and they released us on conditionally. When they found that the allegation that we were causing, we were protesting on the street and causing a problem, the police discovered that it was false. The people who arrested us, the convoy that is similar to the one that has caused the governor with motorbikes close to about 10 motorbikes. Interesting.  Yes, I was flitted with peppery substances even when I told them I needed inhaler that I must pass it. They were spitting it in my nose.  It's an attempted murder. So I'm going to ask you the same question I asked. I'm going to ask you the same question I asked, Ms. Damboto. Why would the government want to kill or harm your members if the police had given you according to the government you had to get permission from the police or inform the police? If you have done all of this, would the government be after you? What exactly would they be gaining from harming you or maybe the weapons that were planted on you? Let me give you a background. Apagalingo is already an enemy. The state has declared it an enemy. There is a concept in different costs in state. So it was also surprising that even when we tried to maintain the peace they would want to do something to protect peaceful demonstration. I think he was a primary target and because the state, the state governor has personally declared in the personal non-crata and they would not like to see him discussing anything that is to sensitize the public about the malattic situation and the corruption in the system. Okay. Finally, Ms. Damboto, before we go would you like to respond to what he has said? He has made claims that the government is afraid of any speech or anybody that would want to attack it in terms of the alleged corruption, malhandling of government, etc. In your assessment do you think that the state is safe under Governor Ayadee and these allegations that are being made do you think they are baseless or not? I think those are personal perceptions that I think it is not correct as far as the securities concept the governor has put in a very strong security structure that even what is even baffling name on it the police are there as he rightly said if the police came and saw that some person was malhandling some other person what is the police supposed to do? So to tell you that it is not as he is saying I think it is just not a personal assumption I don't think that You haven't answered my question sir so I am going to ask it again from your assessment the special duties under the governor how safe do you think Cross River State has been so far? Cross River State has been very safe in the Nigeria because the security structure is quite fine robust and the synergy is strong and look at it statistically go to the Nigeria Bureau of Statistics they tell you go to it now it is Cross River State Are you speaking as a member of the cabinet of the governor someone who is loyal to the governor or are you speaking as a citizen of the state who truly is saddled with the responsibility of protecting the lives and property of the people in the state I am a permanent secretary inside of security I am not talking in German would you be speaking against the government if you were not necessarily working for the government? I am a permanent secretary I will speak what is true if that is right okay well I want to say thank you to you James Ibo is a legal practitioner in Cross River State and of course James Ibo is the permanent secretary special services governor's office thank you very much gentlemen for being part of this conversation we have to go now well thank you all for staying with us we will take a break and when we come back social and political organizations express their disappointment with respect


Oh my god Baldy is raging out here But it's up you guys real estate gaming here today We are back in the creepy elevator because they have added ducal zxc, which sounds pretty crazy man He looks pretty terrifying as we can see here And guys it is also time of the week so make sure to drop a comment below if you want a chance to win a robot's coat Let's go check out the Baldy floor as this guy's raging. Let's go. Come on.  Where's Baldy at? I have no idea, but it is so red out here Oh god, I thought it was Baldy, but he was he has a hitting head as Baldy. Come on All right, let's go this way. No dude, where is Baldy? I don't see him anywhere Maybe he's on this end of the school Oh my god, we got the broom in there the sweep gotta sweep sweep sweep looks like it's sweeping time Gotta sweep sweep sweep actually miss playing Baldy. You haven't played in a long time Okay, so Baldy is nowhere to be seen actually It was just an empty school that was filled with raging madness My god. Oh my okay. So he made that a lot more One two three four five. He's to be like three of them on me, right? My Baldy.  Oh, we got the rake here All right, let's see. Let's track down the rake. Oh, look, there's a mystery item. Let's grab it Oh, cool. We got a sword. Well, let's put the lever Why is it not working?  Oh All right, mr. Rake. Why would he why would he digging his head on the ground? Dude, he's getting everybody out here. I'm gonna get my coil out. Oh my god. He's behind us No All right, where's the watch tower? Is not oh here it is just climb to safety Please don't tell me he can climb it Please don't tell me dude. He can climb up the watch tower Kind of bad. This is this That's pretty dope actually that he can actually climb up the tower himself Oh, no, no, no Okay, let's make him climb up here because blazer thinks he's safe, but little does he know that he's not Oh my god. All right. He's trying very hard to get up here Oh, oh my god. He almost had it. He was like this close Maybe if he tried a little harder, you would have gotten the mr. Rake My god, I don't know why to go to the basement. Oh, dude. So let the man was already there Okay, so who is this? I forgot what killer this was But this is one of the newer floors too. Oh, look there's a green square over here. Oh mine Oh, that sounds like charlie All right, let's go around this way What? Oh my god. Yo, no, all right. It's charlie. Oh wait, can we fight them because yeah, how? I think we can but it looks a little too dangerous to be fighting charlie Because he seems awfully mad. Oh, like there's a hatch escape What? We're back at this Hey, I call bonto floor. I kind of like this one. I'm not even lying. Oh, the lever's here. It's pretty scary Oh my god, no, the killer's right here No He almost caught me in the restroom. If you guys didn't know that is where he catches his victims Okay, he's trapped in here, isn't he? Oh my god. Yo, ow No, okay, let's go around. No, and he got us well Rest in peace to us I see you I see you Okay, so we got mr. Ghostface here We got slender man with the jetpack What what is going on dude? He's like burning down the whole thing over there Oh my god. I think he's trying. Oh, yeah, he's trying to break out to this side over here. Let me give it a go We have to press like a shift. Hold on. I think it only works if Where's the shift lock set by developer? Oh, he took it off Dude, he okay, so he still managed to break through Because he was using the jetpack. Let's try it.  How are you doing it? I think he was the first person actually Okay, this might this was a little harder than what it actually looked like. Oh my god. Oh, there you go That wasn't too hard Hey, we broke out of there. We are free. Let's go. Oh my god. We almost died Wait, can we fly back here? All right, this is pretty cool. Oh All right, it just teleported us back inside the elevator Hey, this jetpack is nice. I never really used it before till now Till I saw slender man break out of there with it Oh, look we got the evil dolls in the house Hello evil dolls That's a funny outfit. Oh, she has a little bee right here for God in lesson This might be Duolingo, right? Okay, it is nice No, get away and he got us Okay, hopefully we get the knuckles floor Because it's just hard to get the new floors whenever they bring out the new floors for some odd reason All right, let's go back. Oh my god. He can't see a thing the first person Somebody help. I can't see a thing All right, let's go third person. Oh Be careful with Duolingo My god, that music is creepy because it's like slowed down It sounds a little more evil So, you know what? Take me away Duolingo. I do not want to be Sonic. Oh my god Dude, you saw his eyes. Oh my god. He looks like he has a poop stain Oh Yeah, that that definitely looks like he had a little problem going on down there Stop bullying the poor potato man. That's the p 173 My god, look at his little mouth right here. Oh ritual. My god. We're kind of rich. What are we talking about? Oh, Annabelle.  Oh, I still have my jetpack. I'm like, why am I flying everywhere? Okay, let me pull this Oh Oh my god. All right, let's get out of here. Let's grab Okay, can we six can we stay like here like a spider? All right, you guys. Oh, I was about to say I'm a spider up here with the spider web Oh, we won't stay up there All right. Oh, let's go down in here I does not want to be around Annabelle. She is a little crazy, man I screamed like that That is where terrifying screams if you actually scream like that Uh-oh, she vanished Where did she go? Oh my god. What's up yo? Oh Dude, she was hiding under the table the whole time Oh, Ronald Wait, Ronald's from airplane three or Ronald McDonald's Okay, this is Ronald McDonald.  All right. Hey, can I help you mr. Purple guy? May I take your order? May I take order? May I take your order? May I take order? May I take order? Let's see if you understand this. I'm pretty sure he knows Wait, what why did why is Ronald just creeping there? No He was he was supervising my cashier skills And then he did not like it as we continued doing he was just sitting there like a creep That was pretty scary.  All right, let's go back in the elevator. Oh my god. I totally forgot I can go up here Well, like that's pretty cool. The killer signs actually has killers on it Pretty nice little detail Edition That's nice. All right, let's go back in here And let's see. Hopefully we get the sonic floor. I mean the knuckles floor because I've been playing this game for like a million minutes for now And this still has not come out My god, I am god. Is that like a sonic sweater? That's pretty neat Oh, no, not pennywise He's doing the out dance.  All right, you guys well, I can't get the sonic this knuckles floor I don't know. I keep saying sonic I'm gonna end the video here because I've been playing forever and never And it's just a little hard to get the new floor for some reason Well, so goodbye tweeter There you go, little buddy You guys enjoyed the video make sure to slap the like button If you're new to the channel make sure to subscribe to turn that notification bell on and I will see you guys in the next one Yeah