Coming up on DTNS, the tech challenges of vaccine passes, Belkin's phone mount that follows you and why we need to study what Snapchat filters are doing to teen self-images. This is the Daily Tech News for April 2nd, 2021. In Los Angeles, I'm Tom Merritt. And from Studio Redwood, I'm Sarah Lane. And I'm the show's producer, Roger Chan. Also joining us, Chris Ashley is back. Welcome back, Chris. What up, what up, what up? I'm back. Like my man AZ said, I'm back. We were just talking with Chris about King's Hawaiian rolls and sausages and grilling and all kinds of good stuff on Good Day Internet. If you want that wider show, become a member at patreon.com slash DTNS. Let's start with a few tech things you should know. Sony updated its YouTube banner to announce that it will launch a new Xperia product on April 14th at 4.30 p.m. Japan time. It's unclear what the device will be, but rumors have pointed to a new flagship potentially named the Xperia 1.3. Apple added 30 new titles to Apple Arcade, including Fantasian from Final Fantasy creator here in Nobu Sakaguchi as well as new versions of NBA 2K, the Oregon Trail and World of Demons. Apple Arcade now includes two new categories as well, timeless classics and App Store greats. Now totals catalog size of more than 180 games. Reuters sources say that 10 cents TME studios, which makes video games like Honor of Kings and Call of Duty Mobile, generated revenue of $10 billion last year. That would make TME the world's largest developer as it looks to expand beyond mobile games and develop triple A titles on desktops, Sony's PlayStation, Nintendo Switch and Microsoft's Xbox. 9 to 5 Google reports that Google's upcoming phones, including the rumored Pixel 6 will be among the first devices to run on the GS101 Whitechapel chip. That's right. Whitechapel is Google's own system on a chip effort and will be used not only in Pixel phones, but also Chromebooks. In a document seen by 9 to 5 Google, Whitechapel is used in connection with the code name Slider, which may be a shared platform for the first Whitechapel sock. So Google getting into that game, making their own chips, everybody's doing it. The cryptocurrency exchange Coinbase will go public with a direct listing on April 14th with the company sharing its Q1 financial results ahead of that on April 6th. As part of its S1 filing Coinbase reported revenue of $1.2 billion in 2020, which is up 130% on the year. All right, let's talk a little more about what people have been spending their money on during the pandemic. Sensor Tower reports that folks in the US spend an average of $138 on phone apps in 2020, which is a rise of 38% on the year. That's also the biggest rise since 2016. People bought a lot of apps last year and it's not done. Sensor Tower projects the average $180 per person on apps in 2021, which would be another bump. Worldwide, Sensor Tower estimates people spend a record $111 billion on both iOS and Android apps last year. And AppAnnie, which includes some Chinese third-party stores in its numbers, estimates that number at $143 billion. Most of that money was spent on gaming. We're probably all wanting to distract ourselves from 2020, makes sense. US users spent the most money on puzzle games, specifically, followed by casino games and then strategy games. The second highest US category was entertainment driven by the likes of Disney Plus and HBO Max. The rest of the top five was made up by photo and video, social networking and lifestyle. Yeah, so I don't think any of this is shocking, but it is a lot of money. I didn't buy a whole lot of extra games. We did buy Animal Crossing, New Horizons for the Switch. Mobile-wise, I just played a lot more solitaire than I used to because I wanted something simple and familiar that I could just zone out on. Yeah, I didn't find myself buying a lot of new apps and games last year, but the most interesting part of this is not what happened last year to me. I mean, no one, I think, would be surprised by any of these numbers. The interesting part to me is what are these guys gonna do to keep that ball rolling? What are they gonna come out with? What new features and angles are they gonna come out with to keep this ball rolling? Because that money's coming in, so what are they gonna do? That's the part that's kind of exciting to me. Yeah, developers are going to want to keep that river flowing and as we hope by late 2021, most of the world might be heading back to normal, spending less time, playing games, not gonna buy as many things. So are you thinking we might see them try some in-app purchase stuff, try to trick us into spending money, like that kind of thing? I think it's, honestly, I think it's gonna be a combination, right?  Hey, here's this piece to get you to buy, but I'm wondering if one or two are gonna do something outrageous. Uh-huh, uh-huh. The old outrageous maneuver to get people, to hook, to keep people hooked in. Yeah, and just because you have to switch from, hey, there's nothing for them to do, they're buying our game, that's awesome, to we've gotta keep them wanting to buy the next one or keep them playing so they make those in-app purchases, et cetera. Augmented reality filters are fun, right?  MIT Technology Reviews, Tate Ryan Mosley has a story out titled, Beauty Filters Are Changing the Way Young Girls See Themselves. AR filters on social media apps like Snapchat and TikTok can sharpen, shrink, enhance, and recolor your face and your body. Even Zoom has a touch-up-my-appearance feature to smooth out your skin, and they are popular. Hundreds of millions of people use them every day. Facebook and Snapchat won't release specific numbers on beauty-related filters, but they are the most popular. And nobody knows for sure how the technology changes the way we form our identities, represent ourselves, or relate to others. And these are very popular among not only teams, but even preteens. Claire Prescott, who studies preteen social media behavior, so we're talking 10 and 11-year-olds at the University of South Wales, has found that boys tend to see these filters as fun, just fun things to be goofy with, while girls, and again, not all boys and not all girls, but girls tend to see these filters as a way to improve appearance. Prescott believes filters can have a positive impact by letting children try on different personas, but there's no education of how to put those effects in context, how to try on a persona and then put it away, not start to think you are not as good as you should because you don't look like the persona in the filter. And that could lead to anxiety about how you really look. We do know digital representations affect behavior. That has been studied in other arenas. Jeremy Balanson is the founding director of Stanford University's Virtual Human Interaction Lab and found an effect in virtual reality called the Proteus Effect, where people change their behavior based on the physical characteristics of the avatar they're using.  A 2019 study published in the Journal of Behavior and Information Technology found video game players that use the opposite sex avatar, whether it was male or female, behaved in a gender stereotypical way for that avatar. Now, Facebook banned what are called distortion effect filters, ones that really enlarge your lips or your eyes or smooth out your skin too much. In October 2019, after there was a controversy over a surgical app that would like mark up your face for cosmetic surgery. But Facebook in August 2020 rolled that back to apply only to filters that explicitly promoted cosmetic surgery. And not much else has been done. And what Tate Ryan Mosley points out in this MIT Technology Review article is we haven't done a lot of research on what these effects are.  And these are the things we have to be careful of provide context and education and maybe there's some things that shouldn't be used at all. I'm actually really glad that they're doing this type of research because this is something that speaks to me personally. You know, I have a young daughter who like many other young girls in this world are always succumbed to the pressure of looking or acting like somebody else. And she, my daughter is gorgeous. She's got long, beautiful curly hair but for months and months and months she was asking, I wanna straighten my hair, I wanna straighten my hair. I'm like, why do you wanna straighten my hair? Cause all my friends straighten their hair, their hair is straight and mine is the only one that's curly.  Your hair is beautiful. You know, appreciate what it is. So that's just something as simple as hair.  And now I gotta actually have to start contemplating, okay, how much do I let her do at this age and you know, how much not?  And I don't know the answers to everything. So I'm really glad they're at least doing some type of research to kind of give folks insight into the apps, but I think it'll also speak more broadly to our social connections as well. I mean, I'm not a young girl, but I am female and I definitely think that there are certain pressures. Again, yes, I'm generalizing a little bit with genders, but certain pressures on females. For example, you know, if I didn't put my mascara on the show yesterday, I was like, ah, I look terrible. No one else cares, but I kinda care. So there's already that going on. Something like an AR filter is not the same as actual body modification, but it sure changes your look at times depending on the filter that you use. And let's face it, there are filters to make, you know, people's eyes teal blue, right? How many filters are there to make people's eyes brown? I don't see any. Maybe they're out there, but it's a certain kind of, oh, this is a cool body standard that you're never going to get to in real life, but this filter can make you look this way. And what does that do to somebody down the road after extended period of time? Yeah, I think that is the extra thing with these filters that needs to be studied, which is it's one thing to be seeing all the people in the magazines that don't look like you and think you should have to look like them. We've talked about that for a long time, but actually seeing you look like that in a picture and then looking at yourself in the mirror and going, ah, but that's not what I really look like, right? You can be forgiven for thinking, well, it's harmless, you just put that out on the internet, but if it starts to affect, and this is why it needs to be studied, if it starts to affect your self-identity, especially when you're forming your identity as a young person and you start to feel like the way you look, like Chris, what you were saying, though, that the way you look isn't right, then we need to pay attention to that. Absolutely. All right, let's move on to talking about some accessories. What do you got for us, Chris? So, Belkin announced new accessories for the iPhone 12, including the 6499 magnetic phone mount with face tracking. This uses a companion app to recognize your face and control the mount with a base that can swivel 360 degrees in either landscape or portrait orientation. It only works with the Belkin app, but that can link to Facebook, Instagram, TikTok, and YouTube, among others. It will sell for $65, though no date was announced. There's also a fitness phone mount that can attach your phone to a magnetic surface on indoor gym equipment. It can do 360 degree rotation and will cost $35, no date on either one, on that one either. I mean, everybody's talking about this one that follows you around with the facial recognition, which is great for your TikToks and your YouTube videos and all of that, but I thought, Chris, you might be interested in the fitness one, right? For your workouts. Definitely had to look into this a little bit deeper. And when I looked at it and I was like, they're onto something here, especially after COVID. And in fact, if they had dropped this last year, they probably would have been blowing them out the doors. Why am I saying that? Because one of the things that has become hugely popular and especially with COVID going on is the remote instruction. So you've got a lot of these professional bodybuilders and power lifters that take on clients and do everything remotely. And one of the things you have to do is you have to record your lifts, squats, deadlifts. And through the video, they can check your form, they can tell you, you know, you're leaning too far forward on your toes or you're too far back on your heels or whatever. And one of the things I always see when I was going to the gym more regular is people trying to position their camera just right to record what they were doing so they could post it. So this, you're 100% right. This gym mount one I think is gonna be the real winner. Yeah, the influencers will like the 360 degree face tracking. And it is cool. I have to admit, I was like, oh, this is fun, especially if you're doing a cooking video or something where you're moving around. But I think that fitness mount as well is something that's gonna come in useful. I hadn't even thought about the whole pandemic era of having to video with your trainer because that's gonna continue. Some people go back to the gym and meet their trainer in person, but a lot of people will wanna get a trainer that isn't local, a lot of trainers that wanna widen their market, you know, and that'll help with that. That's right. I mean, I can't tell you how many fitness TikToks I watch regularly. Oh yeah. Very few of them do I follow in any capacity, meaning, you know, physically follow. Like do the thing that they, yeah, yeah. I don't do the thing, but I'm like, oh, that's a really good, that's a good idea with these weights I have in the corner of my garage. I should do that. Yeah, it makes all sense. Yeah, good stuff from Belkin. All right, before we move on, Dan Campos has a word for us. Hello friends of DTNS. It is time for the Word of the Day, brought to you by Noticias de Tecnología Express. I am sure you know about fake news and if you want to do a literal translation to Spanish, you can call fake news Noticias falsas, which we also have a wonderful word to refer to that term. Today's word is paparrucha, which means exactly that, a hoax or a poorly reported event. You can also use it to refer to silly things or nonsense. You can learn this and more words by listening to Noticias de Tecnología Express available every Friday. That's right, it is not paparrucha that we have Spanish language tech news coming at you weekly from Dan Campos. Go subscribe at dailytechnewshow.com slash N-T-X. Well, vaccines are in development, but so are vaccine passes. The idea is to be able to securely show who has been vaccinated to enable return to normal faster. Israel introduced a vaccine passport back in February for attending events and restaurants and gyms and the like. Estonia and Iceland are using passes to let visiting non-citizens skip quarantine. New York is working with IBM on an Excelsior pass that could be used for people to attend crowded events like concerts and weddings. IBM is also one of the biggest likely to become a standard, but there are also other projects, like from the Vaccine Credential Initiative, the WHO, the State of Hawaii, the World Economic Forum, the Linux Foundation, Walmart and other pharmacies and airlines like Lupanza. Europe is developing a digital green certificate to allow increased tourism. The African Union and African CDC are developing my COVID pass for easier cross-border travel on the continent. The US will develop standard recommendations but won't create a federal database or centralized operations. So among the many problems with the passes, a standard and interoperable system is the first and it's the biggest. Carbon Health CEO Aaron Bollie told Protocol that the best system would be to have a small number of data providers, possibly healthcare outlets doing the vaccinating like carbon, that integrate with other systems like Apple Wallet or airline profiles or others. And that's all before we get to how data is stored, which is obviously very important, how it gets secured, obviously very important as well and how privacy is protected. But the idea itself isn't exactly new. Many countries require vaccinations to visit them. The WHO administers the International Certificate of Vaccination or Prophylactix, Prophylactix rather, to show how you got them. So there is data that has been recorded in the past and we can build off of that. But yeah, vaccine passes. It's part of our new normal. And it's already controversial here in the United States. A couple of hours ago, Governor Ron DeSantis in Florida signed an executive order prohibiting businesses from requiring proof of vaccination in order to provide service. So putting a regulation on businesses that say you cannot choose your customer based on vaccine or not vaccine. Yeah, so I didn't think that this was something that would be a controversial topic, but me and the boys were rapping about this the other night. And it turns out that we all did not agree that they should be doing this. So I was kind of shocked by that. I thought this was a no-brainer. But I could kind of see the point of it. You wanna make sure you're not ostracizing people. You wanna make sure that this doesn't become a wealth gap where those with can get these and prove it and those without can't prove it and don't have the means to do that. But I would think that your businesses would want to do this so that they can promote that they're a safe location for people to come and eat and hang out. So I'm kind of, I don't know where this is gonna go. Yeah, my first concern is with the security and privacy. When you have this many different organizations doing it, it's harder to keep track of who's securing the data. Is it positively secured, et cetera. That's, I like the idea of having the folks administering the vaccine, the healthcare companies be in charge of the data because we have some pretty good practices around health privacy, at least here in the United States and a lot of other countries around the world. That seems like would be a good way to go. Security and privacy is important. It does become an issue when all of these conversations are about your phone. Oh, you'll have a thing on your phone, which sounds great to me, right? I've got a little QR code from where I got vaccinated and being able to show that on my phone is great, but not everybody has a phone capable of that and you shouldn't be leaving people out who got vaccinated. There needs to be a way to have a fraud-preventive way to do a non-electronic version of this, like that WHO yellow card, as it's called, the vaccine card that shows you've been inoculated before you travel. So this isn't new, it's just, we've never had to do it at this scale before. I also don't think the government, in my own opinion, this is just my own opinion, the government should not be involved in deciding who gets to do what with the vaccines. They shouldn't mandate the vaccine passes to be required for things, but they also, I don't think they should prohibit a business from saying, look, I'll serve you food, I just won't let you sit inside unless you've been vaccinated because there's a bigger chance of transmission there. Well, we do require vaccines to go to school though, right? Yeah, we require vaccines for all kinds of stuff, right? School is just one of them. So this is going to become a political football. I can tell already that it's not gonna be about what's true and what's right. It's gonna be like one side's gonna pick a thing and the other side's gonna pick another thing and we're not gonna actually do what's beneficial for people again or what technology can provide us. At least that's what it looks like already. Yep. All right. We have an echo, an echo I can hear going all the way back to 2003, Chris, what is it? So in 2003, a company called SEO applied to prove that IBM illegally copied UNIX source code into Linux. SEO lost that case and in 2007, it was proven that SEO never even owned the copyrights to sue UNIX anyway. I mean, sorry, didn't own the copyrights to UNIX anyway. So in 2011, a company called UNIXIS, now called ZNews, I believe, bought SEO's UNIX products and IP and everyone thought that was that. That was the end of it.  But folks, that which is dead may never die. Zenos is now suing IBM and Red Hat for illegally copying Zenos software code. This time it's about UNIX where an open server from 1995, not their original UNIX code, but still. I really, really, really never would have guessed that I'd be covering. I would have never guessed that we would be covering SEO in 2011, much less 2021. So I couldn't resist. We had to talk about this on the show. I've covered this almost my entire career. It's crazy. This isn't a hilarious story because I was reading, I was like, you know, my first instinct, and this is just how I'm made up. I'm like, I'm for the little guy.  I read it and I was like, oh man, come on. You don't even have the rights to it. And then the excuses. So like, ah, well, this is just fairness and about these guys bullying us and taking on software. I was like, no, you guys are broke. Yeah, Zenos is basically saying, we haven't been making a lot of money this year. So we started to look long and hard about our position about not suing over this stuff. But it's gonna cost them money to sue and I don't know they're gonna win. So I don't know if it's such a good idea. Except for that little twist because it seems like in the article, they said Microsoft kind of backed the original lawsuit. Oh, I wonder if that's happening again. Oh yeah, that was back when Balmer was running things that they were very anti-Linux. Microsoft's very pro-Linux these days. So I don't expect any help from Microsoft's go. Well, speaking of Microsoft, Xbox Series X, many fridges are going to be a thing. So get ready. We don't have a whole lot of details about it, but this is according to Microsoft's GM of Xbox Games Marketing, Aaron Greenberg. There was a bit of a marketing competition that happened on Twitter. It was a brand competition. Xbox One, it was in first place, Skittles. Skittles in second place with about 49.5%. So Xbox was like 50.5. So it was a very close race, but Xbox did eke it out. Although Greenberg didn't offer any prices or photos or availability in his Twitter announcement just said, listen, I use this as a fun way to get more votes and we won and so now we're gonna make this fridge. Greenberg says the first fridge will go to Skittles, that candy maker, second place. Walking away, you know, it was a valiant attempt. And so this was like a March Madness style tournament for brands that Microsoft won. Is that right? It was, yeah. I mean, it was totally off my radar until somebody said, my, wanna Xbox mini fridge? And I was like, what? Why? So instead of going to Disneyland when they won, their thing was we're making fridges for everybody. Making fridges, yeah, making fridges. Well, apparently making fridges for whoever would like a fridge, but not a lot of details, but Chris, would this be something that you want if you could get it? As much as I would love to enjoy this story and be like, oh, I'm gonna order a refrigerator just to be egregious. Aaron, if you're listening to this show and I suspect you are, my man, I don't wanna hear Xbox guys doing anything else, but ramping up the production of the series Xbox. It is outrageous that people are still hunting down the Xbox, ridiculous. Dude, no refrigerators, more Xboxes, please. But the fridges are so much easier to get. Little bit of, not free on, what's it? R95? Yeah, yeah, exactly. All right, let's check out the mailbag. This one comes in from Thor, who says, hello from sunny Oslo, Norway. Thor, we were talking about Clubhouse the other day with Scott Johnson on the show and just the idea of this kind of platform and where it's gonna go from here. And Thor says, wanted to point out another podcast I listened to that's been doing live shows and audience participation for nearly 400 episodes. Linux Unplugged, they've been going strong, using Mumble as their platform and the way that they structured their show. They use chat tagging for participants to summarize what they wanna say, allowing the host to make a smooth transition to the participant that then wants to talk. Thor says, I've heard a couple podcasts experiment with Clubhouse and just wanted to draw some attention to a group that's been doing it really well for a long time now. Full disclosure, I'm a patron of both DTNS and Linux Unplugged, so I'm biased to good content. Well, we're glad you are, Thor. And that sounds great. I love this sort of thing where people are like, look, maybe it wasn't as easy as pushing a button on Clubhouse, but we did something a long time ago that does that same thing. And it works great for us, it does even more. I love this kind of stuff. So good for you, Linux Unplugged. Thanks for bringing that to our attention. Indeed. We also were talking about more selectable Siri voices, no default voice anymore and more voices to choose from. And that reminded Pat that many years ago, Pat says, I worked on cockpit avionics safety systems. There was research at the time, this was about 25 years ago, that male pilots would respond faster to an audible alert if it was in a female voice. I don't remember, but I think there may have been no difference for female pilots. So the new system we worked on incorporated female voice to audible alerts. On a personal note, my wife was the voice of the prototype and demo system. Pat says, I can attest, everyone listens when she speaks. Unfortunately, she lost out to a professional voice actor for the actual production. Oh, that's too bad. That would have been amazing if your wife ended up being that voice. Yeah, no kidding. Yeah, interesting stuff. And we got a lot of feedback about this particular story. So yeah, if you've got anything to contribute, you can send that contribution to feedback at dailytechnewshow.com. Anything that we talk about on the show that you have something to say about, got a question about, want to hear more about in the future, please do email us because we love to hear from you. Also shout out to patrons at our master and grandmaster levels. Today they include Paul Thiessen, Kevin and Paul Boyer. And thanks to our brand new boss, Courtney Robertson, who just started backing us on Patreon. Thank you, Courtney, you are our new boss. Also thanks to Chris Ashley for being with us today. Chris Ashley, what's been going on in your world? Hey, you can always come find me in the homies over on SMR Podcast. We're your favorite podcast, favorite podcast. Three fellas just talking about anything you could mostly tech though. Come check us out. Excellent. Well, we are live on this show Monday through Friday at 4.30 p.m. Eastern. That's 2030 UTC. And you can find out more at dailytechnewshow.com slash live. We're back on Monday. Have a great weekend. Talk to you that again. This week's episodes of Daily Tech News Show was created by the following people, host producer and writer, Tom Merritt, host producer and writer, Sarah Lane, executive producer and booker, Roger Chang, producer, writer and host, Rich Strofalino, video producer and Twitch producer, Joe Coontz, associate producer, Anthony Lemos, Spanish language host, writer and producer, Dan Campos, news host, writer and producer, Jen Cutter, social media producer, Shannon Morse. Our mods, Beatmaster, W. Scottus One, Zoey Brings Bacon, BioCow, Captain Kipper and Jack Shid. Modern video hosting by Dan Christensen. Video feed by Sean Wei. Music provided by Martin Bell and Dan Looters. Acast ad support from Trace Gaynor. Patreon support from Stefan Brown. Contributors for this week's show include Lamar Wilson, Scott Johnson, Allison Sheridan and Chris Ashley. Guests on this week's show included Trisha Hershberger and thanks to all our patrons who make the show possible. This show is part of the Frog Pants Network. Get more at frogpants.com. The Diamond Club hopes you have enjoyed this program.


Welcome to another OpenShift Commons transformation Friday and today we're going to talk about something that's near and to dear to my heart around open source collaboration and we have with us Emma Irwin from the open source program office at Microsoft, formerly from Mozilla. And what started this conversation was a blog post she worked, she wrote and posted back in early September around weaving safety into the fabric of open source collaboration. And if you know me, a lot of the work that I've been doing around OpenShift Commons is trying to create spaces and give away the podium and make sure we have inclusive communities here at Red Hat and in the CNCF and other arenas and foundations where we work and Mozilla and Microsoft have been, you know, places where we've touched and interacted with and collaborated with in the past and the work that Emma's done has been instrumental and bringing some of this this conversation to light and to making sure that we have some good pieces of documentation and good practices for open participation. But safety is always an interesting topic. And I'm just going to have Emma talk a little bit about the gist of what was in her blog post and maybe for 10 minutes or so from the comfort of her car where she's stationed right now and in doing all that. And so Emma, how about if you introduce yourself, give us a little bit about your background, how you came to Mozilla, how you ended up over lovely working over at Microsoft now. And we'll just talk for about 10 minutes maybe. And then we'll have a conversation about this topic. Sure. Thanks so much for having me, Diane. It's a real honor to be here and to be talking about this particular topic. Thanks. Thanks for the invite. And yeah, so hi, Emma. I, as you mentioned, started kind of this journey around our topic area at Mozilla, but being a part of open source for probably 15 to 20 years, I started off my career as an engineer. So I really just followed my kind of curiosity around how things were made. And as I became more advanced in my career and hit kind of those glass ceilings, I really looked at open source as a way to learn more skills that I maybe didn't have the opportunity to my people. Specifically, I always mentioned Angie Byron from the Dribble community was someone that inspired me early on, that I was able to go into communities and learn and build new things was really cool. So open source really was a venue for me early on as an engineer. And as I became like more enamored as part of that experience, I started to also teach others how to get involved. So that became sort of my transition to Mozilla in empowering others to be successful in open source projects. Of course, the thing that became really central to my work, especially around diversity, equity, inclusion in Mozilla was, you know, how do we make sure that open source is actually open? And for me, that means that it's actually inclusive, because you cannot decouple inclusion and open that for me, they're the same thing. And so I, you know, worked on community and open source at Mozilla for a number of years, and had the opportunity during that time to also witness the transition of organizations like Microsoft, who started to have open source program offices, who started to invest in open source and recognize their ability to change the world and innovate. I became, I really saw the transition, especially for Microsoft in that space. And when they hired Stormy Peters a year or so ago, I really started to pay attention. And that became, you know, kind of the next place I wanted to be and to contribute. And I was lucky enough to have that opportunity just starting recently. And that's how I got to where I am now. So one of the things that you focused on in this article that really struck me was this concept about why people who are participating need to feel safe and supported and empowered in their roles. You know, I love the line there and sort of the four areas there. And if you can talk a little bit maybe about these four areas and how you see that playing out and what guidance and support you can, we can as community managers and Ospo's and places can, what we can do to ensure that we are delivering on these promises. Yeah. Yeah. So I think, first of all, like maybe historically or in the beginning in OpenTot, enforcing Rx or Mozilla, Mozilla's case of forcing their community participation guidelines was sort of fell on the shoulders of the community manager or like whoever happened to be at the helm of no maintainer role. And something that I started to see was that actually this was an unfair burden basically on those people, especially if they weren't experienced in open source or the, you know, there's things they hadn't, you know, you hadn't don't learn necessarily in engineering how to, for example, help someone who's threatening self harm like that just isn't part of engineering 101 and maybe it should be. But and so I started to have conversations across the organization. This is really, I guess to answer your question is that I think partnerships are key in organizations. And when I say partnerships, I mean like, you know, the engineering is talking to HR and HR is talking to legal. And you know, there's this this circle of understanding about what the problems are that that staff are facing. And of course, contributors and community are facing. And then to strategize how we might best solve those things together. So safety is so these are the four areas of risk that we identified where safety privacy, legal and brand. And in some ways it felt kind of like, like, the empathy seemed to be missing by categorizing them as risk. But actually, that's a really, I found that was actually very, very empathetic to think about the ways that people might be harmed. And the organization as a term might be harmed. So safety is definitely, you know, whether we're in our physical spaces or online, like safety, and that's psychological perceived or otherwise, right? So sometimes people get caught up in, Oh, is that actually going to happen? Are they really going to get dogs? But, you know, so that's a part of safety as well. Privacy, of course, in when we're, you know, taking reports from people or we're storing data, you know, since like data classification and, you know, like privacy is something that that permeates all different areas of work. Legal, of course, is, you know, applicable laws. For example, you can't have, you can't report sexual harassment in a digital format in India. Like there's like these really like interesting laws and also anonymous reporting is not allowed in somewhere like Denmark. So understanding all these different things that can be risky is the legal category.   In conversations internally with companies, that brand is usually the thing that comes up. And that's the thing that on boards them into paying attention to this space. You know, it's like if they think something goes awry, it's like badly on your brand. And then you can get your corporate management and other teams involved in doing better partnering, better education. You touched on something earlier too about the role that we normally in open source projects, the role of the community manager, especially in the past historically, and it's still true for a lot of projects, it's lands on the maintainers, the folks who are leading the project and the engineers. And I think what we're seeing in the arc of open source community development is this understanding that the maintainers maintain and that for the most part, if they're maintaining from an engineering perspective, doing code contributions, you know, roadmaps and, you know, figuring out the technology innovations, that there's a new role that's sort of emerging, I think now in projects where non-engineers are becoming part of steering committees to bring in new mechanisms to the projects to allow for end user participation, the folks that are doing community developments to have a voice in what is the management of the community side, maybe not so much the code side. So I think in addition to all of the partnerships, are you seeing this as well over at Microsoft and at Mozilla, this sort of changing of the guard of who is in charge of community or who is responsible for making this new people coming in? Yeah, so I think definitely involving all, you know, I do see the transition in open source more broadly at Mozilla and I'm starting to learn at Microsoft, so I can't speak too much there yet, but that there is this like empowerment of all, you know, all backgrounds and all contributions, that's what you're doing yet, I think that there are different roles for people in an open source project and that recognizing the importance of other roles, we talk a lot about like the easiest way to get a contribution is maybe to on board to write documentation, but we also now are seeing, and I talk about this extensively in other places, the rise of end users participating side by side in open source projects. I was just talking with the metal cubed folks and though it may have sprung from the head of Red Hat, like out of some whatever vendors head and got put into the sandbox over in CNCF, it's now really folks from Erickson, an end user community that's driving that project, so the engineers, so you have this other thing too that's happening I think around who's participating and the brand piece of this, which I for some reason I'm stuck in my head right now on that, is that not only is it our brand, but now that our communities are so closely tied with our end users customers, we have to even make more of a focus on making sure that our communities are open and inclusive and we don't mishandle or worse off not handle any issues that might arise because that could be simply the easiest way to lose a customer as well, not only just this, so I think one of the things that has been a challenge for me is getting, and it shouldn't be, it isn't really at Red Hat, but at lots of other startups and places that I have worked at, getting the company on board at resourcing this aspect of community management. Yeah, 100% to everything you just said, and I know especially at Microsoft, putting developers first and our users first is central, so 100% to everything you just said and that building those safe and inclusive places of course directly aligns with that, 100% what you just said. I think the question is how do we get organizations to recognize that? I definitely, I found that was one of my biggest challenges at Mozilla initially was think it's important for people to be safe, right? No matter what their role and open source part, everyone will nod and say it's important that everyone feels safe and feel inclusive, that's hard to get, and what is hard to get sometimes is those parts of an organization or company to go, oh, that's me that should own that, right? Or that this isn't something that can just be a nice intention, but it has to have, for example, safety at Mozilla, we had a safety group that didn't have a DRI, like a directly responsible individual for a little while, and so what that meant was, yes, there's all the people from Info Security and HR that had the skills and capabilities to support somebody who was, you know, in some way threatened, but if it happened on a Saturday, for example, right, like without a DRI then there was a chance, I mean it didn't happen, but there was a chance that we might fail someone. So I think storytelling is probably an important part of that, getting people to recognize that sometimes things actually have to happen, unfortunately, to change those hearts and minds, but yeah, good journey. You touched on a part of it too that's actually interesting to me is the HR side of this, so in the past, I've been like in open source events or just tech events, there's been these huge conversations around codes of conduct, because you can put a code of conduct up there on your page, you have these wonderful words, but one of the conversations I've had in the past is that don't put it up there unless you can act on it, right, like unless you let the DRI piece that you're referring to, but if it's just words on a page and there's no person who's going to take responsibility or action or follow up on it with the right skill set, then that's almost worse than nothing, right? Yeah, it's super dangerous. I mean, I did a survey in 2017 that kind of informed some of this work, and one of the questions that I asked was, and we surveyed over 240 different open source projects, and we had like 75% of those who opted into the survey were themselves in underrepresented groups, so we felt like it a good segment. We just asked a simple question like do you think the code of conduct in your community is enforced, and do you trust? And we saw even among those, just generally speaking, only 50% of people thought their code of conduct was enforced effectively, and effectively is kind of a word that I maybe would have changed, but anyways, and then of those who were under represented, it rose to like 76% didn't believe it was, so whether it actually was, the fact that that many people, and this is 2017, so I'm hoping that that has changed since then, you know, didn't have that confidence is alarming, right? And to your point, yeah, that I think it's great that a lot of people threw up code of conducts when, you know, but the enforcement piece is really critical and to your point, having it there and not enforcing it is actually dangerous for folks. Yeah, I've seen, you know, and I've probably been guilty of it in the past too, until I, until someone called up on the phone and said, this happened to me, and then it was on me to figure out how to do that as the person who was hosting the event. So that was, you know, that's been, that was a bit of an eye-opener too for me, and enrolling, I think the success factor for us was enrolling a partnership with HR, and just making sure that, like whether it was us, the event organizer or the community manager organizer or development person, having prior to the event or prior for the launching of the community a conversation with HR about what will we do if someone reports, right? That, that the workflow even to get it down to breaking that down. So if we put an email here, who is going to answer it? Who is doing that? And I, and I think since 2017, we, I am probably a little bit prior to that, we've seen the HR involvement and the ensuring that there is like a, you were talking about the safety committee, there is a group who are on standby for if this happens. Hopefully nothing happens, but there is actually like a body there. I think that is one of the key things I think that was it. And the other part that has always been an interesting conversation is working with our corporate legal teams, because then there's you're taking responsibility for ensuring the safety. And that, that maybe it's that word ensuring, right? That you will, you're taking responsibility for it. And for companies and organizations, whether they're vendors like us that put on these events or CNCF foundations and Linux foundations, put on these things or Mozilla, that's, we kind of understand that, not all of us, but most of us understand we're taking that responsibility on. But now as we see more end user organizations and corporations coming on to that, maybe they're not the size of Apple or Salesforce, they're smaller companies that are coming in and creating open source projects. They might not have had this conversation yet with their legal or their HR team. And so everybody is at different stages in the spectrum. And as we see this, what I keep referring to as this huge rise of end users, you know, if we look at Uber donating lift and lift donating code to the CNCF or Envoy or Open Tracing in Yeager or Spotify, some of these are newer companies. So they hopefully come out of the startup Silicon Valley for you. But there are some stuff that's coming from older companies, telcos and stuff like that, where they don't have perhaps as strong of as an Ospo culture or support network internally to the company. And you see this, I see this now in the rise of open source program offices or things similarly named inside of our end users and companies as part of almost as part of the digital transformation arc, you know, as they get at being taking on all of this stuff, what we're also bringing to them is this culture and this structure structures for doing more participation in open source. And so that's been part of a lot of things. Can you speak a little bit to what you've seen in that space? So just one thing, if you scroll down this blog post, there's like three circles, there's like two green and one gray, that'll help me speak to the thing a little bit later. I think, I mean, I think if I understand your question, it's really about getting those partnerships to happen. Is that, is that the? Yeah, what should people be doing inside of their internal? Yeah. Okay. So I'll just say like aside, I think it'd be amazing at some point if organizations like Mozilla and Red Hat and others should get together and produce data, because I mean, of course, there's nothing like data to get people to get on board, right? So initially when I worked on the, on our HR partnership internally to Mozilla, you know, what I brought them was like a year's worth of data to talk about, okay, so here's how many cases we've handled as like the community focus team. Here's how many of those were staff requesting support, right? So they're staff going, you know, normally I can deal with this, but I don't know how to deal with somebody who's threatening self harm, you know, or this person's getting into my DMs and being really creepy. I don't know how to, you know, like really like themselves reporting, actually, right? Like there's not always this recognition that the community managers felt like they're trying to solve other people's problems, but at the same time, they're also experiencing, you know, different levels of trauma or upset. And so I brought that data like something like 55% of the people reporting are staff, right? So that's, that's a number that HR and, you know, HR your roles to support staff. So that was really sort of helpful in the narrative. And I give them a couple stories about what, what those types of, how those played out. So I think that that approach is really good. If you don't have data yet, then this is why I was thinking at some point it'd be awesome if multiple organizations could get together and do some of that storytelling. Maybe we're at a threshold now where, you know, the privacy of those folks involved wouldn't be threatened, of course, but anyways, that maybe that's a little bit of, I've heard that in our, we have a DNI and open source telegram channel that folks are also more than welcome to join. It's like a bunch of different open source communities if you're not already part of it. And that's, is something that's come across. So, you know, so to get those partnerships, definitely data, definitely showing what other organizations are doing. And, you know, one mistake that I made or that I found was a little bit didn't work is trying to make it like call it a strategic partnership or make it sound like a really weighty thing that someone had to add to their board clothes. Instead, something like these three circles that I've, that are on the screen here, breaking down like with each department, you say yes, right? It doesn't have to be in like a big set of okayers or something. And so this was, you know, employee support, you know, was going to cover that, you know, if an employee reports that they're going to acknowledge the experience, they'll talk to their manager, the manager might need coaching, you know, let the employee know what they'll do and the resource for support. And they'll also invest, you know, cover the investigation. That's actually a whole skill set, right? Like, you know, we can go and look into things, but I've discovered, you know, there's a whole probably set of talented people in your organization that were trained in investigation. So that's also something that that I proposed the HR department did. And then offering our support, as far as a community team or those focused on external contributors, it's like, you know, we can work on system, disabling systems, communication, we have templates, we have like our consequence ladder, which shows, you know, how you can assign a consequence and really like making them feel supported at the same time as asking them for support, I think is critical. And then again, just not making it sound like a big weighty thing that's gonna, you know, because especially I think in the current economy and everything, you know, making it sound like you need resources is just like a bad idea altogether. So that was nice. I think it's interesting too because you and I have probably both been in community management and community development for a long time. And both of us were previously software engineers on other projects. But we didn't maybe, and most of us who are engineers, when someone in community management says, Oh, we need to put this into place, it on top of your engineering role. Yeah, that's also like a huge ask. So it's interesting. It's like balancing it out. And these these systems pretty much inside of every company should exist already. There are experts in this at your company somewhere. And so yeah. And but I think that like for a lot of new projects, it's the beginning awareness that this has to be part of their thought process too. So a lot of the focus that we see in new projects that that arise and there are like, you know, a million plus GitHub repos popping up now out there.  So people know how to become what the road is from newbie to maintain or make like all of these things. And we're really good at that. And like, I give a huge shout out to the CNCF contributor strategy, say again, Paris Pittman and Steven Augustus and Josh Burkus are doing great work around that. But this is another aspect that we're putting on open source projects, especially, you know, and part of the reason that there is a benefit to joining a foundation, because they have this infrastructure in place, and they can add that to your your processes. So the burden isn't on the, the engineers or the maintainers or, you know, the people who are the end users of these things. So, you know, I might not have been always the most vociferous supporter of foundations in the past. I think who listen to me might hear me rant and rave about that. But the price that we as vendors pay for memberships and everything else supports bringing that this sort of these sorts of infrastructure and support systems to your projects. So that's another aspect that people don't really think about what foundations are bringing. So I and kudos to them for doing that. And then, so if you're in a in a foundation, look to that foundation to see what their processes are. If you're in a large company, or even a small one, talk to your HR folks, and find out what already is pre existing, and what they can help you with. So, my, my, go ahead. Employment legal. Sorry. Employment legal. I just add on to HRs was one of my biggest allies in telling that story. Yeah, I think that here at Red Hat, we have some amazing Richie Fontana and a whole bunch of other folks in the Red Hat legal department that have years and years of experience with these things. And not so much with this side of it, but with all of the legal stuff and their they the storytelling that they could do after, you know, some of these people have been in these in this game at Mozilla and Red Hat and IBM and Microsoft and other other places. There's a whole lot of experience. So you don't you're not you're not reinventing the wheel here. And that's I think what I thought was so nice about this blog post was it really kind of mapped out where we you know where we were coming from what what we could do and and and perhaps you talked a little bit about in the blog post about the program for enforcement that you guys put in place. What did that take to actually do create that? And I think I'm talking about the CPG program enforcement section here. That was great. Yeah, I'll just add on to your as quickly on to your comment about foundation. So just mentioning the chaos project, which is a project of the Linux foundation and a lot of the the DNI metrics were deeply rooted in some of my research. So the the if you're looking for metrics around code of conduct enforcement or even assessing your code of conduct that that you can go to the chaos project and look there you'll find I there's like even a tool we built to to look through. Anyway, so that's to your point. Yeah, found you're doing great work. The chaos folks are absolutely awesome looking at community health and helping build out best practices and share lessons learned and actually create metrics around community health that these pieces of the of the puzzle. And I think that was kind of where I was moving with your the program that you built out. So maybe I'll slide down to that and so you can talk a little bit about. I mean, it really was it was kind of cool. I'm not sure the right word, but when we really stepped back at the end of this viewing over the last two years was building a program that was very much like piece by piece. And so, you know, the components of the program, our enforcement program where, you know, policy, obviously, but in, you know, by policy, you know, we're talking about standards like a code of conduct or our community participation guideline itself are, you know, standards and policy and and not just that, you know, we in a corner of the project or corner of the organization say matters, but that others recognize so that, you know, the fact that we have a consequence ladder that the HR department is also using when they are making recommendations, you know, that's a policy that's like in place that the code of conduct itself is a policy and we make that what's the word relevant by constantly updating it. So last year we added CAS to that after we, you know, talk to somebody for getting the organization name, but, you know, that basically opened our eyes to the fact that CAS discrimination was a thing that happens, you know, in open source communities and what that looks like. So we added that. So always updating this policy, internal partnerships, you know, mostly informal, as I mentioned with HR, but just the deliberate the those partnerships are key. So that's legal, that's working with safety, that's working with workplace resources. So I don't know what that's called in other organizations, but, you know, people who work in offices and run events, you know, having partnerships with those folks. So for example, if you have someone that has been banned from your communities, it turns up an event, you know, having that partnership, make sure that that is stopped in its tracks. We have two different working groups speaking of tracking data. The first was actually merging the records of HR, the community records for violations of enforcement and legal and making those, not the records themselves accessible, but making sure that we weren't giving Moss grants or hiring people or giving leadership roles to people who might have been, you know, banned from the community. Something we recognized early on was that we had scattered records and so it was actually possible for a while that, you know, somebody might get hired that being banned from the community. So we have a working group that accepts requests to review those names, almost like a background check, but for community, which didn't exist before. Wow.  Yeah, yeah. So, speaking of bringing people back, that would fall in our policy. We do have like on our consequence ladder, we have temporary ban, it's level five or six, and we have a process, CPG onboarding, which is where, you know, people are offered to come, we offered to bring them back where there's my own where they have to have a conversation. We set them up for success. It's very positively oriented, but also might have some restrictions. And so we do, we did have a policy for that, which is about a 5050 success rates the last time that I checked. So the other working group is safety. So we have, you know, if someone's being doxxed or someone, you know, feels unsafe or like we have InfoSec and HR and legal and workplace resources and all like the C level people and, you know, VP's on that so that, you know, someone emails that we can act quickly. That's the other working group education. We have two courses which have actually been really critical. The first is for staff and it just covers, it's like a first aid course for enforcement. So it's not like teaching people to be very, you know, to know all the things that I might know or you might know, but that they know, okay, this is how you take a report and you don't try and get someone to change their story. And you, you know, you make sure that the data is like labeled confidential and there's all these different steps and then, you know, what to expect and yeah, and their roles. It's very, very first aid. We even have like infographic what to do by P1, P2, P3, P4. You report it, you tell your manager something they can print and put on their wall. And we had 80 or 88 percent of our community facing staff and their managers took that course last year. So that was a huge win that everyone walking around knows what their responsibility is and what to do. And then on the community side, we also had a training course that mirrored that, but it was for community managers, for non staff, community managers and maintainers and that sort of thing. So they also knew, hey, we have your back, right? And here's what you can expect and here's who you can call. And so that's just starting to roll out that was behind the staff one. And that's going to be part of all community onboarding. So that institutional knowledge is super important. You know, you can't have, like if a community manager leaves and we have someone new join, we need to make sure that they're not having to learn by fire again, right? That they are immediately like, here's the course that will tell you how you're supported. And so I think education is being really important. You know, systems are just, you know, tools that help us move faster. So we have a C, sorry, a LMS for delivering that content and a hotline for taking reports digitally, although most come in kind of verbally, they don't, we don't get a lot more spam through the system. And then we really just talk about our customers and users like we would any other service, right? And it's, I think I even write that it feels, you know, calling people in distress or who need help customers, but it really helps us think about what they need and what, you know, we can provide. And so, you know, at Mozilla, we, this program has served us pretty much every project and product in the company from Firefox to hubs to, you know, MDN, and that, you know, non-technical folks, you know, technical writers, engineers in person at, you know, Mozilla all hands, we've covered things that have happened in a lot of different areas. And yeah, that's the program. And of course, it's always evolving, right? You know, it's never done. One of the things about Mozilla that I loved over the years is really you have been sort of at the forefront of making sure these like, not only in technology, but also in community development and making making this stuff available and accessible and almost all of what you've talked about is in Mozilla's template and, you know, not all of it, but a lot of it is there. And the reusability of it, I think is something that as long as it's again going back to the field code of conduct that has nothing backing it up, just copying it from the template isn't enough. It's a good place to start educating your your your companies and other folks that, you know, the work that you guys have done. I'll talk a little bit about, I know you've only been at Microsoft for a very short time. And you did take and Microsoft did bring Stormy Peters over. So we know you're going to get a lot of, you're going to have a great time with her as the next resident Mozilla person.  Yeah, or she rose or whatever. And I think how how does this play out in your new role over at Microsoft? And how are you going to take this to the next level? And Microsoft, I'm not saying that they don't have this in place, they do have a lot of this already. So it's just stepping up the game. Where do you think the road ahead is for this? Yeah. So yeah, so it's my third, I just was my third week at Microsoft. But I, and I'm doing a lot of learning around like, how does, you know, what I just built a Mozilla like, where does that fit in Microsoft? Or what are they doing that is also this, I guess, is something that I've answered. And I've been, you know, super impressed by the fact that internally there's, you know, open source champs. So there's a cross organization, which is really big. I thought Mozilla, you know, there's lots of people who care about open source and the their youth, like your point, the users of their open source software and just the the the ecosystem overall. So the program, the program isn't quite like this, but there is this intention across the organization that is really remarkable. And I feel like everything is being handled really well there already, I have to get kind of my hooks into like, exactly how it functions. But from what I can see, it's well in hand as far as safety goes. And that is in law. And that there's some merging culture there that really values values the outcome of what they're building for their customers and users, but also for the broader ecosystem. So the partners that they have, you know, we're part of the X Foundation, you know, to do group and working with others. I think it's probably one of the more remarkable things that I see happening. And so while Mozilla, Mozilla, we had to build this program for enforcement, I see it. Those partnerships is being at those really they're leveraging each other's expertise, you know, outside of the organization. I think it's really exciting to follow how OSPOs are working together on some of these problems.  Everybody is doing this, you know, even if you'd ask me. It's amazing. Yeah, even if you'd ask me, like, we have Josh, who's over at Salesforce and, you know, and also on OSP, what's Josh's last name? Pick myself for that. But yeah, there's when I go back to this, this rise of the end user participation in on that. So we who have been in vendors that have had huge open source leanings have teams of people doing this. And and I think one of the things what I'm so grateful for you coming here today is being able to have this conversation. It may not be hallway, like at conferences where we share best practices and lessons learned and what we're doing. And that's what the open source summit would have given us in Europe. And you know, had we been able to meet there and have this conversation and for that. But the the sharing of this information through conversations like this and building awareness of the need for having these safety nets and practices and processes and policies in place as new companies emerge with their own open source ones so that it's more than just talking about making sure that there's open governance and the right license is picked and that there isn't contributor letter. All of these things are incredibly important as well. But this is the other side of the coin. And I'm glad you brought up chaos. But this the idea of ensuring the safety and and the sustainability and the health of a community is almost as important to getting those innovations and in technology in out there in the open. And I think sustainability is also the thing is like if you have an unhealthy community, that community will not be sustainable over time. Yeah, as it matures people will leave it. And I think we've been really blessed in some ways with for myself becoming to the Python community and the Django community and the XML community in the early days and having the experience of they may have been benevolent benevolent dictators for life. Some of the roles that people were in, but folks like Guido and others were amazing at sharing sharing the spaces and creating the space for these conversations. And I think that's what creating spaces to continue to have these conversations, whether they're virtually or in person and sharing the lessons learned in the stories. And what I'd love to do is have something like get the the Apple and the Salesforce and the in the vendor Ospo is together and the Linux foundation does some of that work. But I think there's there's more to be done to share the best practices and like you've done with this blog post which caught my eye because there aren't that many that go into this detail on this aspect. So it was really great to see it and to have it here for us. And I don't worry, I will put the link in the chat and on the video here so everybody can find it. And as well as to the templates that you've created here because I think that's actually one of the best things we can do is document it, share the stories and continue to you know, raise up the level of how we do this so that someone coming with a new project or a company coming for the first time to donate code to and put it into an open source repo and understands what it really takes to do it. It's not just marketing and it's and or great technology. It takes a great community to do these things forward and sustain them. You have any final words of wisdom that you can impart on us about you know how you ensure you know a high standard of safety and that's anything that you really would like to make sure everybody knows and is aware of. I mean I think that you cover collaboration and that deliberate sharing of things you know if you write, if you create something you know put it in the repository and the Mozilla diversity repository like I still maintain that so if anyone wants to improve or contribute those there. I guess I just share like my ambition as a closing you know we keep hearing like open source is less diverse than tech overall which always gets me right in the heart and I feel like a lot of that it centralizes around whether or not people feel included and safe and I think that the potential is for the technology we're building for our customers for innovation that you know we actually become a more diverse and inclusive space for building technology through activities like this and that you know anything is possible so I feel like this is people taking care and investing here is a great thing for all of us. I think you're absolutely spot on there I think the move in this you know weird COVID world that we're in that's so virtual that you're sitting in your car I'm sitting in my kitchen but it also opens up and democratizes the access to participation in our communities and if we have these ladders for contribution and participation and these safety nets in we we should be able to really broaden the reach of our communities and the people who could be included in them and should be included in them and the voices that we hear we hear on not just on the virtual stages but in our community Slack channels and IRCs and everywhere else. I think we're at an interesting time where the technology is broadening the access to participate but it also makes it easy to violate the safety rules and the participation rules so there's some vigilance there and some systems that we need to continue to put in place and continue to work on together so I'm totally grateful for you taking the time today to just did this and for taking the all the work that you did at Mozilla bringing it to Microsoft and bringing it there that's I can't wait to work with you more you're gonna you know have a great time over there there's some wonderful people thank you yeah look I look forward to collaborating with you and and and bringing the Ospo folks from from IBM and Red Hat together and and maybe having sort of a a sharing between vendors and end users who are sitting I'd be curious to see is how that difference differentiates to you know from their perspective so we'll have to get the folks from OSI and other places on sometime soon and maybe have a broader conversation so that sounds great yeah we can do that we can do that on a Friday from your car from my kitchen from the area or from the kitchen that they're sitting in yeah there's lots more to explore here so thank you so much for coming today thanks so much and thanks for dreaming with me I appreciate that it's a dream that that we can fulfill yeah thank you so much take care have a safe drive thank you for pulling over wherever you were and oh thanks for taking me as I am appreciate it take care bye


Hey, this is Brett, and this 2021 Chevy Silverado 1500 Crew Cab Short Box Custom Trail Boss is stock number 12757Z8. We're here at Summit Automotive in Fond du Lac, Wisconsin, you're new and use light duty truck headquarters. This 2021 Chevy Silverado 1500 has the 6.2 liter V8 gas engine. It is paired up with the 10 speed automatic transmission. This truck has been fully safety and inspected by our service shop per the state of Wisconsin inspection process. It has a fresh oil and filter change, all the fluids have been checked and topped off, and this truck is 100% ready to go. We're going to go all the way around in this video, inside, underneath, start it up and take a look under the hood. Black clear coat is the color, and we shoot all of our videos in 4K, so if you have HD capabilities on your computer, tablet, smartphone, or television, I highly recommend turning them on right now because it is your best way to check out the quality, condition, options, and cleanliness of the truck before seeing it in person. If you like the video and how we do things here at Summit Automotive each and every day, in the bottom right hand part of the screen is a subscribe button to our YouTube channel. Click that and then consider clicking the bell notifications, you'll get updates on the videos we do each and every day here at Summit Automotive. This one comes with the 20-inch painted alloy rims, and it has Goodyear Wrangler Territory MT tires. These are LT 265, 60R20s, and they have just about all the tread left on them, only 2,000 some miles on this truck. The Trail Boss package gives you a lift right from the factory, you can see just how nice and clean that frame and underbody is. I think it's only a 1-inch lift, or maybe a 1.5-inch lift, I'm not 100% positive on that. As we come around the front bumper, no dents or dings, no rock chips or anything, has the red tow hooks, but the thing about the Trail Boss package is it does give you a lift right from the factory, so I do know that I'm just not sure I'm the size. The grille is in excellent shape and the hood is in fantastic condition as well, no dents or dings on there. Passengers side front fender and bumper are in excellent condition, you can see just how reflective that paint is, and as we check out this rim, no scuffs or scrapes on there, and as you go down this side of this 2021 Chevy Silverado 1500, take note of how clean that body is and just how nice and glossy that paint is. We take these HD videos so if you are far away or even if you're close by and you just cannot make the trip down, but you're still interested in purchasing the truck, you can see the truck, hear the truck, and have confidence in the vehicle that you're looking at before you even get here. So when you do get here, there's absolutely no surprises and you can make a smart and informed buying decision from wherever you're at, and if this video helps you make that decision, let your salesman know that you saw the video that was helpful and that Brett sent you. This back rim is in excellent shape as well, and the back tires have just as much tread as the front tires, frame and underbody, absolutely perfect, and it does come with the rancho shocks in the back here. Frame and underbody looks that good all the way underneath, and it does come with a nice set of Go Rhino kind of powder coated, almost step bar lined step bars, or spray and bed liner lined step bars, I should say. Coming around to the back, rear bumper is in nice shape. This one does have custom Borla exhaust. Sounds really good. We'll start it up here in just a second. Comes with the receiver hitch, four pin, seven pin wiring. Tailgate is very nice and clean. Tailgate drops down real nice and smoothly, and you do get the spray and bed liner, LED bed lighting back here, and the bed is absolutely perfect. That bed liner goes on to the, this is actually a plastic piece on the back of here. Tailgate shuts nice and solidly, and as you go down the driver's side, just as clean as that passenger's side, no dents or dings on the box. Get the capitalist feel-fill, and for full disclosure, this back rim is in excellent shape as well. On the rest of this side of the truck, the doors look really, really good. Does come with power mirrors, driver's side blind spot mirror.  There are no ribs, there are no tears on the seats. They are in excellent condition. Factory all-weathers, these 71 floor mats, auto headlamps, push button, four-wheel drive, you get kind of a cool carbon fiber-ish door trim there. Power windows, power locks, and power mirrors. Hop inside, check out the miles, radio, and everything that this truck has to offer on the interior. You can see that this one has 2,051 miles. You get a compass display on there, instrument cluster is very nice and clean. Cruise controls on the steering wheel, you get that 10-speed automatic transmission mode, the optional tap shift. You get the Chevy infotainment system, AM, FM, and Sirius XM radio capabilities. You also have a projection manager on here where you can project through Apple CarPlay or Android Auto right to the screen. So if you have a nav system on your cell phone, project it right up there and then it's like you have nav on the screen, such as Waze or Google Maps, and you can connect your Bluetooth cell phone on this radio.  You can power drop down that tailgate, stability control, downhill assist control, and you also get a factory brake controller, USB, USB-C, and then a 12-volt power point. That all-weather format goes over the hump, passenger side format and seat are an excellent condition and the headliner is absolutely perfect. Truck smells very clean inside, I don't think it's ever been smoked in, and you get on-start SOS buttons in the center console up there. We'll take a quick look at the back seats. Then we'll start it up. Take a look under the hood. Back seats are just as clean as the front seats, no rips, no tears back here. It does have the latch child safety system for any child car seats you may have. Fixed glass rear window with built-in rear defrost. Seats are in fantastic condition. It does have the all-weather floor mats back here as well, and that keeps your carpeting looking brand new. Child safety locks on the back doors and the bottoms of the doors all look really good. We'll start it up and take a look under the hood. Also check out that Borla exhaust. Starts right up, no check engine lights or anything like that. So the exhaust is just a little bit louder, but sounds really good. Warm up and then it lights right down. I would personally like to thank you for checking out the video today, and hopefully from this HD video you will have been able to verify the quality and condition of this truck all the way around inside and out. Under the hood we have the 6.2 liter V8 engine. Engine bay is very clean, runs very smooth. Once again, this truck has been fully safety and inspected by our service shop per the state of Wisconsin inspection process. It has a fresh oil and filter change, all the fluids have been checked and tapped off. And this truck is 100% ready to go. See it has a rotofab cold air intake. Engine bay is very clean. Shocks are doing a nice job holding that hook. And this truck is 100% ready to go. I would highly recommend this 2021 Chevy Silverado 1500 Crew Cab Short Box Trail Boss Custom Package from a quality and condition standpoint. And to see more pictures of this truck, or one of our other 450 new cars trucks, SUVs, minivans, Wranglers, halftones, recorder tons, one tons. You name it, we got to go to that website right there, summitauto.com. Full pictures and descriptions of every single vehicle from two locations all at summitauto.com. And if you'd like to check out more HD videos, you can go to youtube.com slash summitauto. Number two, like, subscribe, and share on this video and all the videos that you see there. Click the bell notifications. You'll get updates on the videos we do each and every day here at Summit Automotive. In fact, in a second, you will see a link to subscribe to our YouTube channel in the upper left. To link to more Chevy Silverado 1500 truck videos like this one in the upper right. A link to this vehicle on our website in the lower left and a link to one of our latest YouTube videos in the lower right. Click those, check us out. And we're super excited to help you with this Ultra Clean 2021 Chevy Silverado 1500 Crew Cab Short Box. Z71 Custom Trail Boss Package in Black Clear Coat. Thanks again for checking out the video. Remember to like, subscribe, and share.


All right, I think it's about time to get started. So let me welcome you to the opening of CNI's virtual event that's part of our spring 2022 member meeting. I'm Cliff Lynch the director of CNI and with some help from Diane Goldenberg Hart and Paige Pope I'll be sort of moderating our way through this session today and begin tomorrow. I want to extend welcome to our member representatives and our guests. I'm delighted to see so many people joining us. It's wonderful that some of our international colleagues are able to be with us. I believe that this is probably among the easier international trips that you've made over the years. And I'm glad you can be with us. I'd also like to extend a special welcome to a number of individuals who are involved in various community leadership development programs that CNI makes an effort to support notably the ARL leadership fellows. They're clear fellows, many of whom you've had an opportunity to meet during previous virtual CNI sessions over the past year and a half or so. And I would note by the way that they are putting a new, a new cohort of clear fellows together and I look forward to introducing you to some of those new clear fellows. They will get together in December. So it will be great to be able to do that. We have some of the folks from the ARL leadership and career development program the LCDP program, and I welcome them. Hopefully I'd like to welcome some of the participants in the leading program, the LIS education and data science integrated network group. These, this is a very, very interesting program that's bringing in people from all over our community. It's an opportunity in our in person December meeting to hear from a number of the leading fellows. And I'd invite you to watch the video that if you're unfamiliar with the program. For those of you who will be in San Diego next week for in person event. We will include a series of lightning presentations from a number of additional leading fellows as part of that. And we'll talk a few things about the meeting and the meeting format and structure and put that in a slightly broader context. So, in the interest of trying to make the best use of everyone's time. We have reduced the synchronous virtual meeting to two afternoons and in an attempt to be a little less punitive to the people on the West Coast. We have scheduled it to run from one to a little bit after five, perhaps somewhere between 515 and 530 Eastern time, both days. This seemed like a better a better way to do things than going sort of two and a half days for our virtual meeting as we did in December. We are holding this meeting again in a web meeting rather than a webinar format. This allows you among other things to see who else is with us here and please feel free to both share your comments broadly in the chat but also to say hello to particular colleagues that you haven't perhaps caught up with in a while. We will be basically running this straight through between now and the end of the meeting. I'll take us from one session to the next we have got to schedule 15 minute breaks at 215 Eastern and at 345 Eastern, where, where we will pause for 15 minutes, although we'll leave the, we'll leave the conference, the conference. Web conference live and open during that time, so you don't need to go away and log back in unless you want to. When we've got to meeting to two sessions back to back. I'll simply conclude the questions for one and introduce the next and we won't really take a pause between them as as will be the case after this introduction. I do want to note that we will be recording all of the sessions. So these will be available later. I also just want to remind you that, unlike our meeting in December. We have now completely decoupled pre recorded videos project briefings from our, from our in person meetings and our synchronous virtual meetings. It took a while for this to really filter through but it actually makes zero sense to try and synchronize the release of those pre recorded meetings all it does is absolutely ensure that people have more material than they have time to deal with between the virtual synchronous meeting the in person meeting and the pre recorded videos so what we're doing instead is we are issuing calls every couple of months for pre recorded project briefings, and we are putting them together with some navigational apparatus and releasing them in groups of about 10 or 12. You can see the first group of those pre recorded project briefings coming out in April. So, other things that I want to mention today, we are trying another innovation in these virtual sessions today and tomorrow. We've asked a couple of people from the community who don't have any speaking chores but expected to be able to attend. Most are all of the sessions for at least that day to spend a couple of minutes reflecting at the end of the day on things that particularly interested or excited them or things that they heard that were surprising or expected for some reason just to broaden out, you know, the, the perspectives on what you hear today and tomorrow a little bit. And that the purpose of this is not for these commentators to give a synthesis or summary of the day, but rather to just highlight their perspectives on some important takeaways from the meeting. And I hope you'll find that useful and stimulating as well. Those will be short and we'll do those at the meeting wrap up both today and tomorrow. I also want to note that while today, everything is contributed project briefings. We have two special invited sessions tomorrow, one that will open the meeting where we'll hear from Heidi Frazier Krause, who is the new CEO of the U.K. and a closing invited session at the end of the day tomorrow from Marissa Parham. Marissa is the chair of the recently appointed American Council on Learned Societies Commission on sustainable and diverse digital scholarship. This is an important initiative that was announced very late last year. It's really just getting rolling and I think it's really important for our community to understand what they're seeking to do some some sense of their timeline and approach for doing it, and to hear about how we may be able to help with this effort. So I'm looking very much forward to both of those tomorrow. So I think that those are the major things that I wanted to share in opening the meeting. I think we've got a really interesting couple of afternoons or mornings on the West Coast or periods of time wherever you may be. I think that's over the next two days and I look forward to you sharing them with us. We, we obviously had to be very choosy about our project briefings because of the extremely limited time that we had together in this synchronous virtual meeting. I hope you'll agree that we've done a reasonable job of covering a series of diverse and I think significant topics, timely topics as part of the meeting. And the other things I would just invite you to be thinking about because it's very much on our mind and we will be asking about it in the meeting evaluation is what what is going to be the fate of our virtual meetings going forward. We are convening next week our first, I'm sorry our second in person meeting since the pandemic started in San Diego, this time. We had a very successful in person meeting in December. I'm hopeful, as I see the trajectory of things although you know there's no certainties anymore. We've certainly learned that over the last couple of years, but I'm hopeful that by this coming December December of 22 are in person meeting we will see substantially higher attendance than the one that we held in December of 2021. And it becomes increasingly difficult to understand why we want to do both virtual and in person meetings. Maybe that we want to do a virtual meeting that is quite substantially separate in time, for example, from the in person meeting. Maybe we hold that in, you know, June, or something like that. You know, spaced out, but we need to think pretty carefully I believe about what we're trying to accomplish with that virtual meeting. If we continue to hold it, or if we continue to hold virtual meetings in conjunction with one or both of our physical in person meetings. As you enjoy the presentations today. I just invite you to have that kind of in the back of your head because it is a question that we're thinking a lot about at CNI. I know a lot of other organizations are also struggling with related questions and we will be having some lengthy conversations with our steering committee on this topic in the in the coming months as well. So, that's about all I want to say. Thank you for joining us and let me introduce the first session. This is a presentation from a team from the month Montana University of Montana. Jason Clark. Lee Lee Sherman, and Daniel laden. And it's a really interesting issue. We talk a lot about open access is opening up scholarship to everybody, and that's true in a very literal sense, but only in a very literal sense. And really making the impact and the insights of scholarship available broadly is a much more challenging question. And this was a presentation that I was really delighted to see getting at some of this. We share, you know, one other piece of this is context. When during the Obama administration, they started issuing mandates to agencies to think about making data public. They really struggled at those agencies about the difference between making data accessible and making it meaningfully public. And I think that what we're going to hear here in some of this presentation begins to get at some of those issues around scholarly output broadly. So let me welcome our presenters today, and I will go away and come back to help out with the Q&A. Over to you, Jason and Lila.