Boom, what up fam Anthony dream Johnson here today co-founder of the red man group founder of 21 convention 22 convention 21 university and CEO 21 studios here with episode 133 of the red man group focusing on family law family law for men Excuse me and parental alien alienation and today's guest one of two will have another one joining and a little bit here About 20 minutes from now is Eric Carroll. He's the founder of dad talk today a huge podcast number one in the world I believe discussing these issues on family law fathers rights and parental alien alienation They have a huge page on Facebook about three hundred thousand quarter million somewhere in that range followers Massive show they got going there and you can find them at dad talk today calm Check out the site if patreon all that going on Anyway without further ado, please tell me welcome today's main guest and first guest Eric Carroll to the show How's going bud? What's up, what's up brother? Yeah, man glad to have you on the show. I appreciate it. I know we had some technical issues Started the show a little late here, but really appreciate having y'all man I've heard very some of my friends have spoken very very highly of you and the show you run Hey, I appreciate it man. It's just you know, we're all in this together We know that men's rights issues. Yeah. Yeah, can you hear me? Yeah, yeah, yeah, no problem. It's just like delay or something. I Got you. Yeah, man You know when it comes to men rights issues and fathers rights issues guys are really having their asses handed to them inside a family court So, you know, I was going through the same thing with my daughter and once I started going to family law attorneys I realized just how big the swamp was and I said I'm gonna start a podcast and we're gonna start fighting back And that's basically where this whole thing started. Yeah, so let's take a step back before we get into any more Specific issues and content, you know, how did you get started and why did you get started with this huge pop? I cast you run now and what's your backstory to even you know finding out about this part of life? Being such a disaster and a swamp as you call it with family law Well, so my background is in concert promotion I used to book concerts and work with different celebrities and stuff and that was that was a good while back I ended up going through a divorce in 2016 and became a single father raising my two daughters I made the mistake that a lot of men do I rushed into a relationship without knowing who I was really getting involved with she got pregnant and You know later on down I mean, there's lots of details to try not to talk too much about the personal story But it was a nightmare. It was the the classic narcissist parental alienation deal. So I got out Once you found out I had moved on and I was dating someone else.  I'm not doing that. I'm sorry. Can you cuss on this show? Absolutely cuss cuss all you want.  So I go to the next attorney and he's like man You got one of the best cases I ever heard. This is a walk-in park The only thing is I need $10,000 on retainer to get started. I was like $10,000. Yeah Just let me pull that out my back pocket and I started realizing how big this swamp Really was because everywhere I went man. It was just the the same old thing. You know here I am a father. I've got two daughters I've done everything the model father that you could possibly have and Now that because I was in a relationship with a woman. I can't get access to my kids So I started dipping in to like Google Forms and different stuff I had no idea what parental alienation was. I wasn't even really well versed on narcissism But you start going and reading the research and you're like check. Oh, that's me. That's me And I just started getting into these parental alienation groups and finding out, you know, this is this is my situation here So when dad talk started that dad talk was gonna talk about many different things man sports movies music Whatever I did one of my first episodes on parental alienation Then my next show was One of the guests that Rogan had had on but he was just talking about like a corner board I it was a really popular show for him and everybody shit on it They was like, hey, we thought you was about parental alienation and family law. We want that back And so that's it kind of open my eyes is like nobody's really Dedicating a podcast towards family law and parental alienation issues for these dads if it's needed, that's where I'm gonna go So we started doing it man, and it took off it took off. It went way quicker than I could have ever expected Started interviewing a lot of the psychologist and different researchers behind the scenes and it was You know, it was humbling to say the least just to see how quick it took off and to It was and sad to know how many fathers are going through these issues I thought that this was maybe a Rare thing that was going on I had never really heard of the silver bullet and then I had all these fathers that started coming in with the false allegations and the different stuff and Man, dude, and it's it's crazy. And you know, it's It's it feels like sometimes we've gotten really popular with the politicians and stuff But it feels like sometimes we're asking the abusers to stop the abuse and it's It's it's a money marketing scheme is what it is And you know, they're trying to sell us our kids if you it's all about it's the same thing in relationships However, the biggest diamond ring you can get your wife. That's how much you love her or your kids How much you're willing to pay for them is how much you love them We are paychecks to the government where paychecks to many people and being a dad means much more than that to me Yeah, it's sick how fathers are treated today It's interesting to you mentioned that it's How oblivious the average man is and the average father is to this going on until it happens to them So if you go out in water culture if you just go to your local grocery store or whatever like the average person has absolutely No ideas going on. They're just completely oblivious to and yet. It's like a hidden plague that affects You know millions of men all the time. Yeah, it's brutal men. Oh They are they you know, it's one of those things that if it's not happening to me I'm not really cognizant of it, but I think it's starting to wake up I mean everybody's known about the bias that goes on against fathers and family court for decades But it's really gotten to the point that you know, people want to see something, you know Happening these fathers are starting to commit suicide left and right and there's so many different issues The fatherless issue is one of the biggest epidemics that we're facing in the United States of America We see all the statistics with the the runaway use the high school dropouts drug use so many things that go Right in to fatherless and the fact that nobody is addressing that really pisses me off to be honest with you I don't know how else to put it Talk to me about parental alienation specifically. What's going on here? You know, what is parental alienation? What's the definition of this? So that's that's one of the crazy things if you ask the different, you know top researcher Psychologist everybody's got a different view on what alienation is Hardcore alienation would be would be when a child is completely brainwashed against the other parent to not want a relationship With the parent at all. They have just been conditioned to think that that parent is the enemy and I mean they just they're they check out I think another side of that alienation is you know them just the ex-spouse or the ex-girlfriend ex-boyfriend They completely just keep the child away from them because they got the upper hand. They got the control any way that they can do it. It's It's very very common, especially with the way our family law courts are set up because they almost promote it Yeah, how does parental alienation affect fathers? I mean we're talking about the children here We've talked about this in the show previously with various guests The fatherlessness epidemic that's plaguing the country and burning it Down as of last year But how does it affect fathers? You mentioned suicide things like that Oh, man, I get I get messages all day long of people that are just on the brink They're ready to they just can't fight anymore When you've gave every dollar that you've got into family court trying to fight for your children And it feels like you just keep coming up on the short end in the stick at some point in time They're like I have nothing else to give and then they feel hopeless and You know, it's I mean, it's kind of like, you know, my situation My daughter was one year old when I very first started getting alienated and somebody might say well You can't alienate a baby You certainly can because if the baby never gets to see the father Then that story that they give them as they get older is that much believable because they've never heard daddy Side of the story or even seen him there. So I think that's like ultimate alienation. But um It's sick man. It's it's it's sick stuff I mean, we've got the stereotype of the angry dad the angry dad that beats his wife and all all these other Images that they've got out there of us and what I'm seeing is these fathers that are breaking down behind the scenes coming to me crying And doing everything they can to be inside their children's life and they're not being gave a chance yeah Talk to me a little bit more about your own personal life like before you got into all this Did you grow up in an intact family the two parent privilege as we call it? I did I did I was a pastor son My dad was a preacher both my granddad's were preachers. I came from a family of ministry. It was kind of an old school mentality I had I had a really good upbringing man and lived out in the country um So, you know, I quit school when I was 16 and My thing back in the past. I wanted to be a rock star Everything about my life was music I ended up getting into the music scene and became a promoter and got to work with a lot of my idols You know growing up, but I fell into the trap You know that I think many of us do, you know, we're told for happiness. You got to get married You got to have the house. You got to have the nice car So as soon as I turned 18 I got married because I wanted to get out of my parents house I wanted to start my life start my happiness get my own house and Uh, I was divorced by the time I was 21 Raising my one year old daughter by myself. That was my first divorce. I've been divorced twice and You know, I kept trying to actively pursue that and every time You know trying to rush into that thinking that's where my happiness was going to be Ended up on the losing end and hated looking at myself in the mirror even more Because I didn't take time to love this gap first, you know I think that's where a lot of these relationship problems come from Learning to be happy with yourself before you can be happy with anybody else You know Yeah, yeah starting with the uh, the most important relationship with yourself Talking a little more about dad talk today like uh, uh, what exactly what challenges have you guys been facing? I know we're big on youtube here at 21 studios and we've had shadow banning issues censorship issues Every day I have to worry about getting you know D platform this whole channel killed off for any random reason What's it been like for you guys on facebook? Your biggest platform Geez man, it's we've had so many challenges that have came at us We had a group of people that that had got together and we're lobbying trying to get dad taken out of dad talk Can you hear me? They said yeah, can you hear me? Anthony We good Yeah, yeah, yeah Is this how to delay i'm gonna while you're talking i'm gonna plug in a uh ethernet cable to see if that helps things out Hang on a second Keep you can keep going on it. Yeah, okay. Yeah, man. So at the beginning of dad talk, we had a group of people that tried Yeah, I can hear you But uh, we had a group of people that got together and they was trying to take the dad out of dad talk today Uh Then you know earlier this year we started talking to a lot of the politicians And we're really popular in the conservative realm once we got back from talking to that And we just saw our ratings tank and it's not that people weren't interested in what we've got to say We were growing like 20 000 followers every three weeks. It's just facebook Really has the power and those algorithms to really keep this message. I feel hidden. Um, It's uh It's scary because I believe the the issues of boys and men is already one of those taboo Issues that they don't want to push and now that it's growing if they don't want you to be heard You just you won't be heard, you know, I would think with you know a page of around a quarter of a million people Our stuff would be getting pushed and I've seen stuff where they they'll show it to 10 people And it's usually some of our most important stuff um And that's really upsetting especially when you're putting your all into it Um, and you're you're trying to grow a platform You're you're trying to bring out a message and then you put all your efforts into growing something And now that it's there, they're not even letting your stuff go out to the people that followed you to get your stuff Um, we we've seen you know over the past couple of months what social media is doing to people Uh, if they don't agree with your views, I don't believe that's free speech whatsoever. That's you know It's censorship is what it is and these big tech companies in my mind have way too much power Yep, can you hear me Eric? I can hear you brother Okay, you can't see me there. It's gonna be a minute while I uh, I figure out the hell's going on here with this That's all good. It's been a talk We'll see what happens in my video at least my audio works I got you Talk to me about equal shared parenting. I know this is something that has been tried to get going in florida But so far has been unsuccessful Talk to me about that and your your your your uh, your thoughts on that What we're seeing with equal shared parenting I've been involved with a lot of the legislative efforts There's a lot of money that comes in to make sure that that doesn't happen Once lawyers here that there's a law about to be passed where dad will have equal custody to mom upon divorce without having to fight they freak out and you know it's The legislation always seems to find a way to kind of sweep it under the rug now in the state of kentucky They actually were very um successful. They were successful in getting 50 50 shared parenting passed Which a lot of times our opposition and shared parenting is the domestic violence people But now we have statistics to show in kentucky the first year that shared parenting Was put into effect domestic violence went down. I want to say something like 30 percent Now is that because domestic violence went down or because the false allegations went down? There was no longer a use for the silver bullet because that wasn't something that was being gave to him so The fight for shared parenting is is a hard one because we're going up against people that's got billions and billions of dollars And unfortunately most of our supporters are people that don't have funds So trying to fight money without having money It's it's rough man And like social media has been the way that we've gained our momentum and making sure that we're going to these political conferences And just getting in their face and saying hey man, what's going on so But it's starting to become much more of a Much more of a conversation At these places and people are starting to see our faces all the time So they're getting a little bit more familiar with this and believe it or not, especially in the conservative movement They agree They agree, but they're told that there's certain issues when it comes abortion economy All these other things that they're supposed to talk about we've got to come together as men And unite to show them that we do have a voter base. We do matter and our voices um I mean they have a lot of power. They really do All right, I think I fixed my technical issues Appreciate you going off on that question while re-arranged Digital life here I want to welcome to the show pastor michael foster returning guests to the show and alumni speaker of the 21 convention Michael thanks for joining on today. Hey guys, how you doing? Nice to meet you, eric Nice to meet you michael. It sounds like you're fighting a good fight down there. That's great Yep, we're trying man. It's it's one of those tough fights. You just got to keep getting back up and swinging Michael, I think your audio is not going to your microphone. It's To my computer, huh? Oh wait, no, that's it's better now. All right, there we go. I think I just didn't have this close enough my apologies Dennis We're talking about parental alienation family law fathers right things like that From your perspective Michael talking about the role of the father In a child's life and how how about disconnect? Father and the child So here's a there's a great article by a guy named robbie low r o b b i e l o w e. I think it's on touchstone Magazine so he points out That there's this great study. It was a fascinating study if a father goes to church Um the odds of their kids going to church as they grow is like 80 percent something really high like the 80 90 percent Even if the mom doesn't go so if dad goes but mom doesn't go the kids are likely To go to church as they age now if mom goes every week and dad never goes it drops down To like 40 30 percent If a dad's overweight Um his children are more likely to be overweight right even so the the dad He sets the thermostat In such a powerful way In the family the dad is kind of the future Of his children and children look to him for leadership And I remember there was this moment in my life where I realized how powerful my attitude was My younger brother has struggled on and off with drugs alcohol In and out of jail being homeless And I I'm never disrespectful to my brother You know in front of my children, but I can remember uh hudson my eldest son when he was like four years old dissing on my brother You know not not respecting my brother at all And it's because hudson could read in me. He knew that I didn't respect my brother. I did it He's a druggy. He's an addict. I love him, but in terms of like respecting him so fathers Set the destiny of their child in a massive way even greater than the mothers do that's not to say the mothers don't matter But when you take fathers out of the home when you take fathers away from their children Chaos happens. That's that's what's happening right now Like we live in a fatherless society and they're replacing they're trying to replace fathers with the government Right with the nanny state the welfare state and whatever and and and we have a situation set up where women can divorce a man take all the stuff and That he has a lot of times But also that the state will come in and take care of her so she doesn't have to depend on a man She can depend on uncle sam right and that's not a dad like this so this this is a huge issue And that's why what's great for a dad is that if you take responsibility for yourself if you see something your kids you don't like Say wait. Okay. Is that in me? And then if you change it in yourself, you'll notice that your kids kind of follow right And but if there's not a dad there, what are you gonna do? Like this is why I keep pointing out to people telling men to man up Is not helpful if they don't know how to be a man And how will they know how to be a man without a dad? That's where they learn that stuff You know women are awesome at being moms They're absolutely horrific at being dads I agree. What well put Yeah, it's almost like men and women are different or something. You know, isn't that crazy right? He's nuts, man. Yeah I'm Michael talk you mentioned Well talk to me about In the church you mentioned, you know, I've heard this too. This is a previous thing that the man is here harped on And I think they're correct, but you would have much more insight into it as a pastor Maybe eric you can speak to this while you're the son of a pastor. I'm not either one of these things um Basically men being told to man up. I hear those at the church, especially in the the Less hardcore versions they say this a lot and for example a lot of times they hear about men being paired up with like single moms and stuff like that So talk to me more about how that goes on in the church, you know, this man up mantra that seems to be very like Hollow and very kind of like mindless and there's no not a lot of good to it is my take Either one of you have thoughts on that. Michael start with you. Sure. Um, well, when they say man up They almost always mean beta up. That's what they actually mean, right? They mean Be a servant leader to your wife And so I I am the servant leader in my home, but the the service I provide is leadership Women don't always want to make the decisions. They're not very good at it And what I offer my wife is uh, she doesn't have to suffer from decision fatigue I care about what she wants what she wants in our life. I listen to her. She she benefits me I need a wife like my kids need a mother and I benefit from her femininity But at the end of the day, I I actually Set I'm the one that makes the decision, right? I'm the captain of the ship. She's my ex-so But it the weights on me What a servant leadership Is in the modern church Is what does your wife want? Now give it to her Let me make you into a pack meal, right where I exist just to please her That's not the nature of our marriage. My marriage exists to build up a household to train children Right to to accomplish the purpose of god. My home doesn't exist to make my wife happy It doesn't even really exist just to make myself happy. Those are secondary things when we're focused on the work together So a lot of times when they say Bait it up like they have this obsession with guys doing dishes Well guys when you get home, why don't you just do the dishes that way that really goes on in church today? They tell you All the time man I wrote a whole article on it and I did research just like what is with this And I did research into feminist literature on doing the dishes. I was just curious and I can post the article Um, I wrote an article and it's good to be a man.com called who does the dishes and What I found is that the dishes represent being tied to the home Right as a menial hard task and betty freedon would talk about how she hated doing dishes and after her husband divorced her and married another woman Uh, he said what is betty talking about she never did the dishes And then she admitted that she didn't and it was just a way to so discontent, right? But these guys will say well, your wife's worked all day long Hard the least you can do is do the dishes. What exactly was I doing all day? What do I not work hard? Like I work very hard now. I have no problem with doing the dishes or buying groceries I'm a full-grown man. I did them when I live by myself And some mornings I wake up and the dishes aren't done. It's our households. I just do them I listen to a podcast and I do them, but I'm not doing it Um to get sex. I'm not doing it to be a servant leader. I'm doing it because it belongs to our our cumulative property our home together And what I think these pastors are saying that a woman has made a sacrifice to stay at home That you didn't have to make so they still have this idea that out there In the career world That's the real world and the home is a sacrifice. No, it's not It's not a sacrifice. It's what she's made to be a keeper of the home It's a blessing. Does she have a rough day? Does she need someone to help her out sometimes? Absolutely I need that too But um, I'm not making a sacrifice by going to work It's what I'm meant to do and she's not being making a sacrifice from working at home And so they have this low level sort of feminist assumptions that are behind the advice they give Bait up do the dishes man You know, it's almost like they've completely devalued the home Uh in every sense, but especially is like a a place a woman would would want to be that just seemed to be like Delusional to them, right? Absolutely. They're feminists and they don't realize it feminists hate the home Feminists to uh define a woman's value By how much money she makes in her ability to compete with men and they don't do a very good job competing with men Oh, you can name what a handful of CEOs? They're women But a lot of times they take after a successful male CEO establish the company that happens over and over and over again Um, and by and large the people that are successful at that that level are are men You know and so the church the church really buys in to uh Into the feminist presuppositions and that's what's behind man up and when you have some skinny gene pastor with the foe hawk You know telling you that like it doesn't sell well, man You know like I don't want to be like you if man who not means being like you I guess I I I'd rather just stay the way I am If I could man Michael, how do you think that uh narrative made its way inside of the church in the first place? Well, um, there's different levels to it That our biggest problem and this is a longer conversation is that the industrial revolution Changed our entire notion of the household. So the the the household used to be a place of production So men and women were made to work together And uh and men women children and divide it creates deep intimacy, right? And I always use this example me and my wife like we used to love to stay up late When we were running an online business that we used uh ebay and amazon as a fulfillment channel We like drink wine Listen to music pack up the amazon stuff and then like head back to the bedroom man. It was great And there's a reason why Over 80 of affairs started in the workplace because men and women were made to work together And that's how you developed this really close relationship with that workplace integration moved from 15 percent in the 1890s to About 45 percent during world war two then after world war two it dropped down to the 30s and then bam bam kept going up More and more women left the home more and more work left the home and now Instead of like challenging that as normative, which is what the church should do Um, they just kind of give it into it and the best you get out of a church is kind of a 1950s View of the house. That's not my view of the house. My wife is Extremely extremely talented. She's got a nursing degree and we've run a business together But our home is a place of work. So they took kids. They took work out of the home Then they took education out of the home and then they took hospitality out of the home So if you look at older houses, they have these huge dining rooms You look at newer houses. They have these small dining rooms. Nothing happens in the home. The home doesn't matter That's what you're saying now.  You won't have to own anything. You'll rent Right. You see the narrative the narrative is the home doesn't matter where your parents where your home everything's moving Towards this status dystopian nightmare. Well, they also want to lock you in this home that no longer has anything So you don't own it There's nothing that goes on there and you're going to be locked down there indefinitely under house arrest As a healthy innocent adult human being Yeah, it makes you a surf. Yeah, exactly. And so that's what we've been moving towards And that's why you want to rebel right now homeschool your kids. You want to rebel right now Move towards whatever level of self-sufficiency you can Right learn how to grow your food make your home productive make it it like make it provide income to And and then when your wife is at home And she's practicing hospitality Which I do a ton As a pastor like my wife is uh in like central to my ministry like people come over this wonderful food She's really good at talking to women. She's training my kids. I have seven kids So she's like she's like educating a 14 year old all the way down to the the littles Her life is not this full menial test. Does she do dishes? She she better not be good done. Um, but uh But she also educates my kids. She also counsels women and so she's not this, um She's not my maid but but we all do maid work But typically you keep her barefoot and pregnant, right? I try there's nothing better than sex that puts a baby in a woman Yeah, dude, I've been saying that for a long time on twitter man. I keep I keep saying everybody gets mad You know screw him Eric, let's let's uh circle back. That's the new thing lately, right to to you a little bit here Talk to me about the concept of man up I mean michael's been going on with it here from a church perspective and you're welcome to do that too Uh, if you have experience there, I imagine as pastor's son, you might have something to say But i'm also curious about the concept of man up specifically to family law and family court Because men go through terrible things like we're talking about here And our audience is already is you know a lot and a lot of ways familiar with that But you know if you get if you get a you know a crazy woman trying to take your kid just man up, bro I mean, why don't you just just take it on the trend and man up? It's just a kid, man It's actually a really huge thing because one of the the things I tried to do a dad talk was go for an outside audience uh people that are not familiar with the issues so we can educate them on it And every time I get a father in there that's in there asking for help and he's telling about his situation He'll get 10 other guys that try to come on top of him dude You just need to man up you need to pay your child support if you got to work two jobs You just needing to do whatever you got to do and just completely discounts everything that this father is going through And it's it's really became sickening because they should be able to go to their brothers for help man I mean somebody that's been through similar situations and to be able to get good advice But that man up Stigma man that's that's going around. It's it really hurts me because sometimes these guys are getting at worse from the guys And they are the women Well, I have it a lot most of the time if I see it and it's getting to that point I want to talk to these people I'll just ban it because I'm like this person's in here asking for help And here just sitting here trying to put your thumb down on them even more Uh to kind of caveat of what michael was saying, you know, I haven't been in the the church for a while But growing up with my dad, he was the head of the household He was the same way at the church. My mom played her part She did just as much ministry as my dad, but she knew where it was He died back in 2013 and she'll still tell you to this day My husband handled this this this and this and I let him I was proud to be his wife And she was happy in that role I think something's happened to where it makes these women feel like they are less than if they accept this role Men and women were created different for a reason and we should celebrate those differences Yeah Hell yeah to your point eric of men being getting harder from other men and women I always tell people if I had to make a choice Between being stuck in an elevator with a radical feminist or a preachy white knight I would choose a radical feminist every single time Like there's nothing more obnoxious Than guys posturing themselves As having it figured out and in the reality is a lot of those guys are just ran by their wife Right and and they're just they're telling you hey when they say man up means like be like me learn to take it from her Right is surrendered to your wife and they that's not victory. That's not me being a leader. So yeah, 100% great It's you know I don't understand it to really to be honest with you I don't understand it why why they would do that and uh You know the feminism is really seeking to destroy the Modern family, you know, I think at one point in time feminism was a great movement And then we saw the second and what I believe the next wave is going to be even worse I believe we're headed into some dark days with this unless men start to speak out Um, it's it's no longer about equality. It's about superiority And these guys are having to fight tooth and nail and the sad part about it is I have these guys that come and ask for advice Of what they should do in family court and I know at times it's like man You might have everything you need and they're still not going to side with you just because you're a man I had the uh the father that came to me yesterday in the navy. Uh, he was being abused.  Uh, his son was being abused. They went to a domestic violence shelter They got turned away five times and it was told because you are a man It's not just it's not just our brothers and different people telling them to man up.  That's sick man. It's disgusting Michael what I'd like to ask you about the church, man Why do you think the church is not getting more involved in marriages and family law And speaking one on one. That's something that I've seen over the years. It's like they could have so much Inspiration and so much direction for these guys, but it seems like it's just an issue that many of them don't care about They only do it if somebody comes to them and request it um It's a good question. I mean some of it is that they're Uh complicit I mean that's that's part of it is that they're part of the problem And we've watched our churches demonstrate just how weak they are Um when the government said hey, don't don't mean anymore and the pastor's like, okay You know like and everyone was okay with it was understandable for the first couple weeks when you thought well a killer disease out of china is 100 percent believable, but then Pretty quick. We're like, okay. This is not what they said it was Um, but they kept they still they're still doing it right like at our church. We don't require mass We don't require social distancing. We have mass enhanced sanitizer when they walk in And we leave it to the discretion of the individual right if you if you're that scared Maybe you should just stay home. We'll come visit you. We'll come pray with you But these these guys, uh, they're not fighters and pastors are taught that Conflict is failure, right? Um, and so their job in the church in their mind Is to avoid conflict, right? My job in the church the way I look at it is I'm a hot Compress, you know, you put it take a hot Uh rag and it pulls the pus to the to the surface, right? The pus is there It's just gotta be so I I don't cause conflict people will see them I reveal it and then I resolve it and so what we have to be willing to do is, um, not look the other way And that's why churches get caught up in hiding all these sex scandals, right? At some level They they saw it like so when a girl is being molested by our brother or her father or even by her sister Almost always the mother has a sense that it's going on If she looks the other way no one talks about that, right? She looks the other way because she doesn't want to believe it's true She doesn't want to see it a lot of pastors like that with problems They don't like want to see it because you know if I I remember this girl came over to my house And she had had sex with her boyfriend Who was helping our was kind of on the leadership track? In our church and you can't do that if you're a christian can't have sex outside of marriage Especially if you're on a leadership track So like we discipline them which is basically like to say can't do that We're gonna take you off the leadership track for a time But then I was discipling this girl and I remember this girl in conversation says to me To my wife. She's like, yeah And I don't I'm not really into sex, you know because of things because of reasons, you know Well at that point, what do you mean?  And as soon as she said that my wife looked at me and our eyes met and we knew then we had to ask Why are you not into sex? Right Like and it turned out that she had been molested But pastor and now that means now I gotta I gotta go to the cops Now I gotta write this letter now. I gotta counsel this chick now I gotta figure out and she was totally jacked up because she had sex with all these different people Like she was a basket, but they don't want they're lazy. Eric. That's the answer Right, they don't want to take a stand. They don't want to make people mad. And also it's it's extremely complicated Right, that's why we need guys like you out there that actually can help me understand what's happening You know like I'm with you. Yeah Understand what's happening in this case So in church politics a lot of things have to do with policy and order Right and if people don't understand that the same way in a In a courtroom as a pastor like I can talk your ear off about culture and theology and stuff My understanding of law is limited, but I'm eager to change it To help change it down. Our church is full of lawyers. I want to cause the feminists in the law I want to cause them headaches, man. We want to like tear it down wherever I can but I don't know how to in some ways and that's something I want to get to eventually. So I'm I'm excited. I'm here Tell me what I can do I'm with you on that and you know, I think that's the hard thing is none of us have that handbook to tell us what to do So we're constantly trying new things to see what works You know feminists have so much power man If I I have to be so careful with every little thing I say on my show or on my pages because I know it'll get taken down or I'll get censored or shadow banned I go over some of these feminist pages and some of the rhetoric that they spill and it's like Where's the fact checkers? Where's where's the censorship here? They can say anything they want to and it's kind of hard to fight when you don't have the same Uh weapons to go back and forth with you know, I mean we have truth. We have research We have the data the statistics everything on our side. We just We don't have a big is a big enough microphone to go back at it And I think another part of the problem you're talking about the man up You know a thing that was going on a while ago these men aren't working together to get something done A lot of them sometimes they compete and they put each other down if we're gonna get some uh headway Into what's going on here?  This could happen to your sons. This could happen to their kids It should matter to everyone because it can happen to all of us I've said that a lot and even in my speeches, you know, I'm not a father myself I'm an uncle I have two nephews and a third on the way and I love them to death But I know that you know this can happen anyone this could happen to me in a couple years This could happen. This has happened to my friends. This has happened to people I know I hear stories through email and on the show and stuff all the time Just on a basic level though as a young american man and young floridian. I'm 32.  That's not good for my community. That's not good for my state Ultimately, that's not good for me and I'm next in the firing line If and when I get into and I've dodged bullets, man I'm ready to prostitute, you know an accident many years ago And uh, it's you know in some ways hysterical looking back on it But it was also very dangerous And the fact that I got out of that without getting rammed through child court Family court divorce court things like that Was a miracle And I know that most men are not so fortunate. They go through much more horrendous circumstances Uh, they lose everything they lose their their house. It was a wealth.  I'm glad that we can uh, it's not a main focus of the red man group or what I do But it's uh, it's an important part of it to refocus on this from time to time Just to raise awareness on it and keep pushing the needle on it And then I love seeing guys like, you know, both of you guys doing different, uh, different focuses on this Michael is a pastor, you know, this runs an awesome church I'm you know, here at Michael talk about these things as a pastor and I'm like, man I grew up, uh, I was raised catholic, you know, all these things I can't and I went to church every week a lot of times growing up and All the way through the 90s and even some of the 2000s and I don't recall a single effing time Pardon my french, but single fucking time They ever addressed fatherhood in a positive light or anything to do with men or masculinity The idea that a priest would speak up against men getting, uh, church leader getting screwed over in family court Systemically would be like would have it never happened and it would have never happened None of them have for I don't understand the mechanics of how Priesthood and the catholic church works works to that degree as a comparison to pastors who are more independent seems to be able to speak up But yeah, there's just there was no cultural There was no force behind it to ever do that even if they wanted to and I don't think they even they didn't even care at all Absolutely It's kind of crazy because at church they pray to god the father but let's not talk about the father at home I mean, that's really where everything stems, you know that the family is everything that we're doing in society And not just with family court. What's going on with our men? You look at the the stigma like if and it's happening on the time a boy gets raped by his high school teacher People just don't look at that as a big thing now if that happened to a little girl That that guy would be under the jail. I had a father not long ago. He's his, uh His stepmom or no, no his foster mom had raped him when he was 16 She adopted him and he turned her in she pled guilty hundred dollars and she got probation She was out if that was the other way around we've got We've got to have equal punishments going on and it needs to be looked at as the same And the the fact that it's not it really worries me for our boys and men's in the future yeah Let's shift gears to some other core topics or issues that men are facing So we talked a little bit earlier about equal shared parenting Uh, talk to me about other issues that men are facing on that same kind of level Michael can chime in as well. I guess from his perspective as we go through it But I mean things like domestic violence paternity fraud child support laws things like that What are some of the core things that like young men watching this need to be aware of? That's going on false allegations false allegations are becoming huge All she's got to do is say that you raped her or that you hit her and they are going to believe her because they believe she's the victim If you say it the other way around it I've always said that boys and men They are guilty until proven innocent while women are innocent until proven guilty And you need to know that going into it Um and for these guys going into family court or anything you like I said you might think you have the evidence But it's against you there's definitely a bias when it comes to domestic violence You never see a man on a billboard But harvard went and did a study that showed that 70 percent of the time The woman is the one that's initiating domestic violence It got deleted four days later, which we can sit here and You know talk about why that might have happened But it's interesting to find out that there's these statistics out there that shows that it's just as much But when it comes to it happening to men, it's just not treated as serious Yeah Do you ever talk on your show of you interviewed people about paternity fraud? Things more specific like that. I mean it seems to be a big father's rights issue, too So I've had carnell smith and if anybody has ever gone through paternity fraud I beg you please check in the carnell carnell paid 11 years in child support for a child that was not his He ended up finding out now when he took it to court and said well, I shouldn't have to pay child support The judge told him no you should have found out sooner and they kept him paying child support Carnell then went on to pass a paternity fraud legislation in 11 different states and talk about a warrior, but actually Talking about that I got his book right here chat by law stop paying child support for paternity fraud If anybody's going through that this is the handbook that you would want Um, and he was successful in 11 states and changing laws 11 different states man and some of the some of the stories that he was telling me He was telling me about one father that was a victim of paternity fraud And the mother knew it and the father knew it too, but they knew this guy had money. So let's make him look like he's the father Okay, now one day They have a paternity test the father finds out that he is the father which he knew anyway and the mom ends up going to jail So the biological father then gets custody of his kid Now this father that was he wasn't a father. He was a victim of paternity fraud is paying child support to the biological father That's how crazy this thing gets man It's not his kid.  I've heard in weeks It's the swamp brother. It's the swamp.   I mean some of these people don't find out until they're 20 30 40 years old That they was told somebody else was their daddy and they never was you know That's not only is that damaging the child But it's damaging the father is damaging everybody I believe we should have a law in place man If we had paternity test upon birth for every single child How many children and fathers would that protect? But you bring that up man the pc alarms start going off and no, I know you're not neither well We need things in place man And if they really cared about these children and if they cared about these fathers and Wanting fathers in there and wanted to get away from this deadbeat dad narrative They would put stuff like that in place, but I highly doubt they're going to Yeah Let's uh, I think a little more forward here on this future thinking so to speak so We're in the very beginnings of a post trump presidency era Politically things that really shifted up Like it love it hate it doesn't you know, whatever it is what it is right now Yeah, what is the future of the west? Uh With regard to these issues and now in our new political environment I mean it looks like from my perspective. It's like everything.  I hope it does not But in a lot of ways it's like everything is kind of crumbling fatherhood is being you know attacked The household itself over the past, you know, michael here is talking about the industrial evolution How about the home itself has been devalued and in a way de dehumanized? I guess or de-familyized in a sense and a lot of different ways it's been screwed up Men are getting just destroyed as fathers and family court paternity fraud Apparently some men are paying other men For children that are not theirs. I mean this is just this is some of this stuff is so nuts It is really stunning in a testament to how pathetic the the court system is I mean, it's it's a it's not even a joke a joke would be too kind of a way to call it at this point But like where where is this all kind of going if if we don't change the way fathers are treated like that author did Uh with 11 states If we don't see massive pushes in that direction like where is this going to end up for for men and for children?  It's just like like it's nothing And I think they're trying to break down everything Because when you make everyone when you break down family connections households communal connections You're easier to manage and that's the weird thing about um A A country like ours that is trying to give everyone this single identity to do that You have to break down the smaller competing organizations of the home and the community or whatever I think we're heading to A dystopian future at rapid pace And things that that and that that's not conspiracy stuff. I don't buy in almost any of that You know, I think jfk probably was killed by Oswell You know, like that's who I am this is for real what's happening right now and That's why I've pivoted since uh the the election I pivoted to focus heavily on local. I was moving that direction anyway But um right now Our ability to protect ourselves is going to be Knowing your your sheriff Knowing uh your prosecutors doing your defense attorney knowing your judge is becoming them You know people in our church are getting positions in our local government right now Like we've been doing that on purpose Not because we want a theocracy necessarily but we want we want our voices to be heard and you know And there's some people on twitter that are critiquing me saying well you're giving That's not how we're going to take this country back. I'm not saying this I'm just saying that is the steps we can take right now to establish some sort of foothold And maybe because if we don't they like here's one thing that's going to happen a guarantee they're going to try to Change being a parent to being a guardian Right and when that happens Then you don't have any special rights over your children and all children are dealt with as words of the state So that's reso's idea. That's what we're removing and reso um what what he failed to tell people is that he had a bunch of kids and Gave him up over to the government because he didn't want to take care of them, right? That was like his mindset. So I think like one thing we're going to see is Parents to be turned into guardians legally and we better keep our eye on it because those things happen really slow I mean, that's the things you learn about marxist marxist plod Right really slow. They're very deliberate.  They have no killer instinct And during trump presidency there's a few times where we could have really like Man, I just brought it to him, but they wouldn't do it. And so now like what we have to do is uh Plod take ground and when we get an opportunity to destroy our our opponents politically speaking We absolutely need to destroy them Hold nothing back And that's where we're at right now if we have a chance to totally destroy these laws we have to I mean, that's what that's what's going on.  Sometimes you can't even tell which one they are now And it's it's sad because we should be proud of who we are and what we bring into this world People talk about you should just accept people for who they are when a lot of times they Can't accept themselves and that's that's the kind of society we live in And it's it's became pointing the finger back at us just because we're trying to stick with our morals and values What they're being taught you was you was mentioning something earlier michael that uh about homeschooling I used to be so completely against homeschooling because I believe kids learn so much at home I mean so much at school, you know with bnt's and having Bullying all these other things that teaches them how to overcome things later on in life And now I'm seeing the indoctrination that they're starting to get inside of these schools And I'm becoming much more of an advocate for that nobody can control What's being put into your kids brains better than you can right?  We're just we're heading into a society where You know, it's anything about being a man is just going to be completely Wrong I watched as michelle obama was with oprah and she said men you need to be better You need to be better fathers. You need to be better husbands You need to be better at everything and they was all laughing and then they put the microphone out there And they said men what are you going to be they all scream better and then they're just going right along with it Why because they want the woman's they want the woman's attention. They want that affirmation These guys need to grow up and get a set and start doing What they were called to do and begin the leaders in their households and the leaders at work and And anyway, I'll leave it there man What's interesting to me is there is there is some truth that men need to be better today And then the man is here is so what we focus on we teach men how to be more masculine We talk about these issues raise awareness on Uh things like family law and you know that that are heavily biased against men and the risks that that pose to you in your life As you navigate life as a man Men today are fatter than they've ever been in america.   We've seen the news like it's It's like however bad men are today and we have fallen You know masculinity has been under attack and men have succumbed to a lot of They have enabled a lot of bullshit with feminism or whatnot, but it's like women are they're ahead of I think Women are today where men will be at 10 years from now if this trend continues They're like much further along this process I don't know if either of you agree with that or have thoughts on that but that's kind of I do man. I've you know, I think uh, If a woman can shape up a man to be everything that she wants and he he does everything that she wants most of time That's the one she'll leave the quickest once she's got him the way she wants But that man that bucks back he he believes in himself and he sticks close to his ideals They go crazy for him So you might think that doing everything that she wants is going to win you some brownie points But in the end you'll wish that you would have stuck to what you believe in the first place Mr. Scripture teaches that the woman is the weaker vessel, right? And There's a sense where Are you telling me women are not strong? Well, I think the interesting thing about it is that I think scripture has a much bigger idea There it's not just merely strength, but for example take war Men are better soldiers than women are one of the prime reasons is that We are able to kind of parse out We can partition our experience anymore. So when our friends blows up in front of us Uh men are able to keep moving in a way that a woman couldn't right because a woman is uh Is primed to take care of children. She needs to be in the moment. She needs to feel everything And it's very important for us and nurture to do that. That's wonderful In a safe zone It is not good in a war zone or in a competitive place So it shouldn't surprise us that as women have moved into corporate america in these areas that we're watching alcohol rates Um we're watching alcoholism. Excuse me and the abuse of prescription drugs just explode, right? And it's not a parody with men like it's a problem with men, but women are not pacing them and I think Women are destroying themselves by by not not staying in the home like they'll actually be happier You know a lot of the council I do with men Like a lot of times when they're having they're not having sex In their home one big reason is the woman's libido is dropped because she's so anxious She's just full of anxiety and I'm like, well Like doing the dishes is not going to solve that we have to solve the anxiety What's what's the source of anxiety? Well women are a wreck Right now. They just are they're terrible and and people always ask me how I'm going to fix that And I honestly don't fully have an answer And that's why I focused on helping primarily young men and younger divorces. That's true.    How how many homeless women do you see? I guarantee there's more homeless men than homeless women. Oh, yeah It's like 85 male or something or 90. It's hugely a favor of men, unfortunately And at the end of the day, it's because even a woman that's not very attractive She still is guys want to have sex and guys are willing To put up with a lot and now something and that gives us women tremendous advantage And at this time and but it but it's destroying them in the process of becoming less feminine They're losing their minds is like well you asked earlier. What should we warn guys about? Well, I warned them About loose women. I warned them about what scripture calls whores Well, that's what scripture talks. I have to it's very dangerous out there And the strategy call them whores like literally. Well, yeah, but it's even it's even more Over the god calls them whores um, but like This is this is from problems doctor seven This is Solomon. He's warning his son about uh, a woman that's married He says with her many persuasions. She entices him with her flattering lips She seduces him suddenly he follows her as an ox goes to slaughter Or as one walks in ankle brace, what's to the discipline of a flu a full Until an arrow pierces through his liver as a bird hurries to the snare So he does not know that this will cost him his life Right and straight up says that when you get involved a woman like that It'll cost you your life. He says Elsewhere it says that she would devour your household, right? So all of the stuff you've built as a man because that's what we do. We build resources You know and like I'm getting royalties on a book.  It's going towards our goals. That's wonderful But what happens when you give your that the royalty check to your wife and she just wasted You know or or goes out with another man, right? There's women spends that on makeup instead of game stop That's how you gotta put in game stop Nokia, man. I'm watching amc. It's doing pretty well right now dose Yeah Man, there's a comment. I wanted to pop out on this. Oh, yeah.  But really it's like a hail mary I don't I don't know what else to do. I mean, I've I've been successful with it since launching it promoting it But I don't know but in the end it's going to be I think it's possible You know victory is possible this but it's not a guarantee. It's not a certainty And the forces that we're facing with feminism, which I see is a multi trillion dollar establishment Eric was talking about this how powerful feminists have become Beyond even, you know, official feminism feminism has become the de facto In my opinion religion of modern women most of them anyway It really dictates much more so than the church Any church any uh any religious institution, whatever the religion is It really dictates what they do and how they live and how they how they choose to live on a day to day year to year basis Every relationship every time they go on tinder every time they go on instagram post a photo other but Every relationship they get into every relationship they leave every family they blow up every father they screw over Uh, every child they abuse this is all like driven by feminism I know that if uh as a pastor, maybe you have uh, you have even bigger visions of it Or uh stances on it, you know good and evil, uh, you know things like that And i'm in some ways i'm with you on that.   I guess but anyway, my my main point was that i'm kind of with you on that I don't really have a total answer either. My answer is make them great again But it's a hail mary and if it works it works.  I gave him a best and I can I can go home at least say i'm not Put him a grave saying I gave it everything I had we're We're having daughters. We're You know, we're closing on the house outside of The main cities. We're not sitting our kids at public school We're watching, you know, if you watch like my little pony once was on Our kids daughters were watching it and I was listening to what The the basic idea was it was terrible. It was all feminism, right? And you can't let those things get into your kids heads It's a it's a battle because I'm not I don't want my kids to be weirdos. I don't want to keep them like you're saying eric Like part of being a man Is when someone makes fun of you You need to know when to roll with it and when to strike back hard, right?  One's sweeter, but they both rot your teeth all the same And that's where we're at right now So we have to find a way to build a culture and to protect our girls from A life of of pain and and my my daughters my my daughters are very emotional They're like little tornadoes of emotion All right, and my daughter galley I have to teach her to control her emotions and I tell her and she acts crazy and she does act crazy I said sweetheart that is not that's ugly That's ugly act that way Beautiful, so I'm like trying to teach them what inner beauty is And and when all my kids will know that if you see a girl jogging down the street with her clothes painted on They all know that her daddy she her daddy didn't love her These are kids everyone's gonna I know I'm gonna hear bad about that But I was like I brought it up with all my kids at one point another and like see that woman that woman Doesn't believe she's beautiful. Why does she have to run naked like that?  I'm I'm happy and then she will claim you're objectifying her Yeah, I'm like you're objectifying you you're the one that's nice, right? You know like look, I'm sorry your dad didn't love you I am I'm sorry for you, but I love my kids and you can take that You take that somewhere else. Oh, we don't want you around here and we have to like get that way now So it's a fight man. It's a fight for our life Yeah, you know speaking of that uh woman running on the street with her clothes painted on I like that Irish alpha 82 posted a stat here. I haven't verified it or fact checked it, but I'm assuming it's pretty accurate 1 million only fans creators today and growing 86 million simp users and growing The simps that's one thing but Only fans. I mean, I think it's a mostly american and western thing. I don't think there's a lot of women in like Saudi Arabia with only fans accounts So that's this is that's a lot of women and that's just that's just only fans, you know Look at looking at that never mind sugar baby websites like seeking arrangement has million probably Probably over 10 million accounts, uh, you know over the years that if they've had I've looked that up, but Yeah, it's really stunning the degree to which women will objectify themselves Like Eric was talking about and how insanely popular it is. I got I got trashed uh on twitter last night for this From one of my muslim followers.  And then they gave up on it because they got Just, you know, uh demoralized or something or they kept going with it for six months or a year or whatever And it's like it's so I think it's hard to like even uh, steve berlet was uh talking to speaker out on twitter with me about this He was less he was not rude or anything like the other guy was a little bit But uh, you know, he's saying today is it any is it really any different? You know woman today being these massive sluts and stuff and i'm like, yeah, I think it is different You know women have always had a I think a destructive kind of nature to them the jezebel spirit That's been present since the dawn of our species or however you want to look at it But the tools the woman have today to enable stuff Whether it's fathers getting screwed over Uh systemically in family court or selling pictures of their butthole for seven dollars a month Like that is really not normal in the span of human history This is brand new and that it's it's not like, you know prostitutions the oldest form of the oldest profession, right?  You have only fans. You have What cash app you can go on tinder and girls are supposed to cash out now on the on the dating sites And they have guys send them money. They do this on instagram.  It's it's fucking insane Well, I know we have that natural desire to want to see that as man But I mean To some extent we're responsible because we're playing into it And if you're going after women like that and you get in a relationship and she runs off and gets attention from other men And you get cheated on Careful what you wish for man if that's what you're looking at, you know tiktok's one of the worst for me It seems like every other video is a girl twerking her back in and the the camera And it's like you guys are feeding into that and going after girls like this and you keep coming up with bad results Try something different. It's like pastor mike would say and you want to fight a culture. You got to start a different culture, right? We have to have one right I think I think there's upside there's a reason be optimistic at some level Is that so there's three likely hoods in the next four years, okay? um in in order of likelihood, okay, so uh recession Very likely. Um, we're always seeing with oil prices like serious depression And straight up civil war. Um, those are like three Uh things that could happen now when those things happen and there's that huge economic instability Women and in our friend george bruno pointed this out. He warned guys. He said, uh Hey guys now that all this stuff's going on politically watch out old girls will reach out to you and don't get pulled into you that Right. Um, so what I think is about to happen is as our our society gets Less and less stable. I think women are going to want to protection of a man They're going to want a guy that can provide and take care of them at the end of the day Even the feminist sends her husband downstairs to see the bump in the night And there's a lot of bumps in the night right now And I suspect we'll be seeing um a return To those to those relationships where there's a desire for a woman to count on a man She'll want the masculine. I'm not I don't know At what level that's going to happen But I I do think over the next four years Um, it will get better Women that were less damaged will trend back towards traditional relationships Um under biden because it's it's going to suck Well, even at the beginning of covid, uh, we saw that my concern and this is something that I was getting yelled at on twitter for for challenging is i'm For every woman that is less damaged and less trauma and all that and trends back that way as times get tough There's a lot of women who will be damaged who will like george was talking about probably will fake that They're they're just super opportunistic, which is a is a feminine trait to begin with but then women who are damaged amplify it to Yeah, sometimes malicious levels narcissists bpd chicks things like this or they just they're just so chaotic and destructive anyway Yep, but i'm also concerned about even Less damaged women so to speak uh doing it and it's just not genuine They're just doing it because times are tough And as soon as they're not tough they'll swing back in the other direction as some of them will I mean what what percentage is hard to say until it happens, but That's why it's like these get this to the guys yelling at me. It's like man, uh in the man's sphere even It's like it's not I get I have I really have women every year offered to be my wife to have my children Like this happens consistently every year with with good-looking women and not all them are whores like I swear Uh, some of them are like decent young women and i'm still like no Like it's you're not good enough like I know this is They're just so I just don't trust my trust in western women has has fallen to like absolutely Bottom of the barrel levels the only place in the world. I've ever seen uh A concentration of like decent women and then good women and then less A healthy population of women is poland eastern europe Or central europe as they call it in america like it's it's so difficult to find Uh women like that and I think too even a lot of women who Even in america who behave like that now I think in the past it was different like michael your uh young gen XR Uh, I think you were probably the last round of men like ellie hall's is your age and he has a great wife too You guys were the last ones to really have a Meaningfully sized population of healthy women to choose from This is falling off the cliff in america and the chicks who act that way today a lot of them are really not genuine They're just too they're too fat to act like whores and get what they want from alpha men Though they behave in different ways Or it's it's larping with women so Larping yeah, and you notice this and you're right ellie and I have a very similar story marriage wise very high school And I'm and I I always bring it up. I always bring it up. I get it right out because the new guy's gonna Say I have survival Survivor bias and all that stuff and I rather should buy us. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I I admit that that is a little bit unique But I have in the church What I look for in a woman that I'm gonna recommend to a young man is I actually don't look for long hair and wearing dresses That matters to me But what I've actually seen is a lot of feminist chicks Get into this sort of trad con sort of life They grow their hair out. They start wearing dresses, you know, they they bake sourdough or whatever But when you talk to them, they still don't have a deferential attitude towards men They're still really brash And or they'll argue with me. I'm like, why don't you argue with me? First off, I have way more degrees than you are You're not even close Right. You're not even in my range of of ability here Why are you doing that? I don't understand and I don't argue with women because you can't ever win You just look like a bully, right? But um But then I noticed I noticed one chick.  Um, but she would always wear dresses And but she was so brash And eventually That girl started wearing pants again And has rejected christ and I guarantee she's sleeping around. I've seen photos of her or whatever And so what I what I'm most concerned about when it comes to women is like their attitude towards men Are they parental? What are their behavior all the all the trad count stuff that we see on twitter? The uh mick tau guys that mock it They're not without justification because a lot of it is It's his challenge Thank you.  Just speaking your mind on this man And I'm I'm traditionalist, but like let's call it. Let's call it like we see it, right? I mean that's we we need that right now because what we what we want is not just form but substance These chicks they have the form of traditionalism You even see it in a little like like how many conservative girls Have to show their cleavage in their profile pic you see all these girls You're like look the only reason anyone cares about your political thoughts is your breasts That's it in your pretty face Because we can get your political thoughts Um From a jack, you know murphy from a ton of other guys and honestly you're basically taking your stuff and just Rewarding it and the one reason it's just like these girls on twitch They're not good gamers. They just it makes guys feel like they have a relationship with them And this isn't what we want our daughters to be I look at I don't follow any of those girls You know, I they're not real Yeah, I forget the twitch stuff even goes on sometimes It's so I don't understand what people watch video games any way to be honest.  I'll get I'll circle circle back to you on that Michael It's it's okay. I tell you Michael is crazy because my my grandmother They were old school pen and costal my grandfather was a pastor too My grandmother had never cut her hair and she you'd never seen her wear a pair of pants She never wore a pair of pants in her life She didn't wear makeup and she was completely against it and people used to think that was so weird as did I Now looking back at it it's starting to make a little bit more sense to me now I'm not saying every woman needs to do that, but now I see why she did that I worked for a publishing company. I used to be a marketer for a publisher And we had a woman that was in and this is obviously this is the difference between your grandma and this woman So your grandma did that out of conviction Um, she believed it at a principal level, but I knew a girl that I worked with she was a sales manager and she wore the the denim skirt and she had the braids and all that stuff and she slept with everybody at that company with everybody like and you're thinking like Okay, you wear the braids and you have the denim, but you're sleeping around with everyone and that's What we're looking for is is character is virtue and I always tell guys like look at the end of your breasts can turn into like a A grocery bag with sand in it at the end of your life Right and so you we shouldn't just marry that one you tie them in a knot and stuff or They can wear swing flow sweet chariots. Um, but uh, but you do have to marry like For the long-term view and I I'm not trying to say beauty doesn't matter. It absolutely does but guys have to start thinking a little more rationally about this and not just marrying women just because of their breasts or or Because of their hips or whatever you have to add some other parts to that because Who are you gonna be stuck with at the end of your life and these girls they spend their beauty They spend it. It's like drained out of them. I always tell my wife. I always tell her like she's uh She's my grape and I'm gonna get all the juice out of her when she's old raisin That's my doing And but these guys have to have a vision for the so ask ask yourself Could do you want this woman to have control of your children? because Like you've seen this eric. I know you have one of the worst things that happens is when that guy loses access to his children Especially when he's not getting 50 50 time That woman will use the children against the man. Oh, it's a weapon. It definitely is, you know, and it's intense You got to go for character and I think that's hard nowadays because people see social media And these people can make themselves out to be anything that they want to be and then once you finally get with them You find out they're not exactly what they was putting out there But going back what you was talking about a while ago, anthony, it's kind of it's kind of crazy, man I got married about a year and a half ago remarried and I said I would never do it again But I did and my wife is korean And at first I kind of you know I dated her a few times and i'm like i'm not getting into nothing serious And I kept her at a arm length distance and I kept trying to push her But I started realizing they still believe even though she was born here in america She was raised by her mom and they believe in those traditional roles She was my wife. She was my rock and at the time she met me. I just had knee surgery I was in a wheelchair couldn't walk couldn't do anything and she waited on me hand and foot, man She didn't worry about what I bought her or anything and it was just completely different than any other relationship I had been in and I realized it was from the upbringing So there's definitely something here, but any of the american women that I dated especially after being divorced Man, it was a nightmare and after a while of dating these girls you just start thinking there's nobody good out there You know, you can tell when they're trying to act friendly with your kids and they really don't care, you know There's some out there, but these american women are just completely jaded man Yeah, so this this brings up. This is perfect. Uh, my circle back my to what michael said earlier You're both I think you're both correct on this The way michael put it in particular released it out to me Which is that you have to look at the attitude are they differential to men or not? And that is number one when you I mean there's a lot of things You don't see with american women and plenty of nasty things that you do see But one of the things you don't see is that positive differential attitude to be respectful to men in general As well as specific men in their lives, uh father husband, you know, whatever the case is They don't have that they don't have it anywhere like they really they really don't And that is I think really central to it in my eyes I've thought about especially the past couple months past years, uh, but really past few months What do I want for a future woman in my life to have what is what is, uh Preferred and what is absolutely necessary and that attitude they have to have it It really reflects their character and reflects who they are and how they're going to treat you The way they treat other men is a symptom Or a a proxy to how they're going to treat you However, the treating in the beginning, you know, that could be whatever it's going to be right the golden the honeymoon phase all this crop They call it But how they treat other men and maybe at a restaurant Out around their own family members, whatever that is even their own cousins, you know even extended family and stuff It's like how do they treat men and I think feminism has been so, uh, effective at brainwashing and propagandizing women They don't even think about this. They they do it very willy nilly. Uh, so to speak They just do it like a sleight of hand.  That's that's probably the number one thing I saw You know, I've called it femininity and you see feminine women and there's no fat woman for example That's a good thing. I don't think being fat is very feminine for women Uh, but they're differential to men. That's the attitude you feel it everywhere It was for me. It was unreal to see that in real life With, you know, modern technology in a first world nation, uh, you know, like great place You know, I was in Warsaw the capital city a big city and women are just like feminine and positive and respectful to men by default Taxi drivers the coffee shop guy, whatever And it's uh, it's something I have to have in my life for sure at some point I wouldn't have anything else But I love the way you put it is the basic attitude or the differential or not That is that is the cornerstone the long hair everything else can be fake much more easy because it's not as uh The attitude is much more automatic the hair when you grow your hair long It's going to be stuck that way until you cut it right so it could be years They have this long hair and the dress and all this bs But that could always be fake the attitude is much harder to fake when they're talking to a waiter at a restaurant or something like that Or to their their cousin they haven't seen in a while or whoever someone to work or who knows Absolutely. I read a whole post on scripture ones about this over and over again and back to problem seven um It says talking about the the woman that's unfaithful to her husband sort of horror prostitute She is loud and stubborn her feet do not stay at home problem seven eleven So there's this idea of of being loud And so loud it's not just she talks loud, but it's her attitude Right. She's a brazen brash woman And you think of the you watch these women Have these breakdowns and people will post them On on twitter and they're just these crazy eyed Like screaming.  They write a really good old testament Hebrew commentary that I use and talking about the the prostitute they write She is of a hidden mind of a concealed nature For she feigns fidelity to her husband and flatters her paramours as her only beloved While in truth, she loves none Each of them is to her only a means to end to the indulgence of her worldly central desires Or she's just using guys They knew that back then she's just using them. It's all a big show And the problem seven woman I always point this out when she's her husband's away for work And this guy is passing by her house and he's like hey come in here. Let's have sex is more what she says But she says I I've already paid my um vows Right, so she's she's a religious woman and I have to warn guys about this like just because a woman talks Jesus talks spiritual talk doesn't mean that she's godly like look at these attitudes And if you want to see how right on this is take kyle trouble you had him on a couple weeks ago And take lori alexander kyle and lori are very different worlds right kyle's kind of like You know, he's kind of was doing the pickup artist thing. I don't know where he's at these days But um right in manuals on how to meet in this country that country And then lori is the mother of a bunch of kids Fundamentalist christian and they both write these posts that go Within a couple months of each other they go viral and kyle as I recall he just wrote When you're dating a girl to find out about her sexual past or attitude towards her father Right and lori did how men prefer debt-free Versions without tattoos and they lost their minds. So what does lori and kyle have in common?     Like If that's not where you're at you're gonna have to start Filtering and thinking through this stuff I mean the the fact that the situation is so bad that you see a rise in popularity for Sex dolls and sex robots, you know, it's easy to poke fun at especially when they marry them Which is really crazy But the fact that there's even the fact that this is even going on at any scale should be alarming To anyone with the with common sense and a brain Like the culture is collapsing to the point that it's like blade runner.  What's your view on sex robots? I don't know man. I mean, anthony really just made that sex doll sound more desirable than I've ever heard In my life thinking about all the different things that you know, I don't think we've seen anything yet guys I really don't I think this is about to really amp up and go even worse Uh, what scares me and maybe maybe there's something I don't know of Is there any programs or anything out there for our young boys coming into this that warns them Of what's gonna go is there anywhere that they can get this education? And if there is is it something that they got a search or is it something that's they're actually just getting anyway? I mean because this they should have access to this because these are all these obstacles They're gonna be you know overcoming I got four daughters And I didn't have a son, but I have taught every single one of them these little tricks You're not gonna do this, you know, uh, but I know a lot of these girls. They're not getting that and the boys aren't either Yeah, the only thing that comes to mind is just the manisphere and fortunately a lot of young gen z guys Uh, they follow, you know the manisphere they follow 21 studios They follow all these content creators from Michael to coach Greg Adams, George Bruno like and beyond So it's it's really good that they're youtube heavy a lot of young boys and they they find these channels for whatever reason That's that's about it. I mean anything formal I think would be thrown out the window in terms of public school even private school like Yeah, so there's nothing like that and for women, you know, we're doing make women great again So that's been my pet project past year blow up in the media, which is pretty cool Because yeah, women have nothing nothing else either unless they have a good father If they don't have a strong father teaching them how to be a good woman and not be crazy hyper emotional and hate men Uh, that's where they're gonna end up. They're gonna end up. Well, this is a great comment from this guy, uh, Charles merchant. Yeah He called woman a feno the modern day female is a feno a female and name only And that's assuming they even identify as female and they don't identify as a he-his Uh, which obviously now is a thing or any of the other 400 genders But a feno is a good a really good way to put I was thinking about this concept actually the night Although I didn't put it together into the acronym But he's right, you know modern american women and canadian women and whatnot. They're they're fenas They're not really women.  There's female, but They don't act like women. They don't talk like women.  It's sad to say man. The last time I went to target Over half of the the young girls that was there look like boys and half of the young boys look like girls And I said what in the world are we coming to man and I I don't know man Phenos and minos males in name only and females in name only michael's both ways. Yeah Yeah, michael, do you have comments on the feno concept being introduced to us here? When I was a kid we called them shemales. So she male. Yeah, she male We say shemales That was our inside language um Yeah, I think I think androgynes are enemy And they're trying to blur the differences between the sexes and make them interchangeable And that's the real battle. Um funny enough is uh androgyny among Pantheistic pagan cultures is very normal and so pantheism is where everything basically has a spirit So think of like ancient african or ancient maybe south asian even even to some degree native americans Uh They tend to have a high value on the feminine sort of priestess Sort of things so what we're actually watching happen in america Is a return to that sort of paganism that involves the feminist priestess because she she's like closer to nature That's that's somehow pure in their mindset and it's always connected to her um being very sexual and So we're we're going back to that right now. Um and part of that also is androgyny where They're mixing male and female. So it doesn't surprise me that I forget what it was something like 25 or 30 percent of millennial women Identifies bisexual. I read this article. Yeah, so that there's a really high amount now guys aren't like that You know, but women um women tend to have a more fluid Relationship with sex like in terms of coitus like actual sex where they they'll change your views Or their feelings on it through their lifetime where men pretty much are what they are Um are the less flexible and so we're watching women catch these things Um where they become Bisexual because it's in or because it's part of their their group and so we know with women that They're very contextual in terms of how they determine what's attractive for themselves and for men and that's why like the Maybe they want to be with the The college or the high school quarterback But then they want to be with the professor when they go to college because it's different contexts So I we're watching all this stuff all the all that stuff that is out there in the manager and in the red pill world If it can be applied in a constructive way to society by non broken people, you know You know the problem is with I always tell people red pills blue pill and I don't really mean that But just you've got to get past just wanting sex And that's the problem with a lot of guys Red pill is just a short term sexual strategy as opposed to actual deeper insight to the nature of Women and children or excuse me women and men and how we apply it Uh to rebuilding society. That's what we need. So Yeah Well boys, then we wrap up for today going for almost an hour and 40 here I need to get going a little bit. I really appreciate both you hopping on your time Sorry by the technical difficulties we had earlier Some of that I think was on my internet was cutting out or something But it came together really good. It's been a great show And I think we've talked about a lot of important issues and helped a lot of guys Hopefully see the light or be able to point their friends to in the right direction Yeah, culture is going down the drain man. We need to do something Maybe it falls apart and rebuild it. We'll see what happens I did want to actually mention to michael and I know future show they talk about it with you your county over country concept No time today, but next time we should I really want to get into that with you fight build Yeah And then eric, thanks for coming on the show today big time And working people find it both you guys working people find you uh, both out dad talk today dot com, right? Uh dad talk today dot com. We're on facebook instagram twitter Uh was on parlor. Uh, there's a new social media platform called clout hub. We're really in tune with them But you can find us a little bit everywhere Okay, michael, what about you? Uh, I'm on twitter at this is foster. I'm also on gab I quite like gab. I think gab's a great place. You guys should check out And the website is it's good to be a man dot com and we talk about a lot of these things really bluntly And there's also a podcast Awesome, and you started doing a church recently too, right east river church and east river if you're uh in the Cincinnati area go to east river church dot org Nice and uh come find us All right, both of you. Thanks for your time. Eric. Appreciate you being a new guest of the show We'll talk again soon And I maybe see it at uh 21 summit someday or later in the year in october Let us go man. Yeah, man. Michael. We'll talk soon our bail us. Thanks for tuning in today I appreciate it. It's been anything dream Johnson with the red man group episode 133 I'll see you next saturday. Peace out