s now slipped to number three rankings worldwide. But I have worked in several categories from financial services to ALCOBEV. I don't know of large scale media that can operate minus TV. So TV is very much center stage. It is the largest platform. You know that we have breached the 1 lakh crore mark in terms of the aggregate advertising pool. And this year and onwards we will breach the 1 lakh 25,000 crore mark. Now television is growing and it is growing for the right reasons. But there is the problem amongst professional marketers and amongst the gurus. The one problem is what I call declared death. This is dead. That you know every year I hear of three things which are dead and three things which are the next big things. The death doesn't happen and the big things don't necessarily pan out the way they have. But very simply put if we have say 20 crore households today and roughly 100 crore people who are within the catchment of TV that penetration will grow to roughly about 80% by 2026. So we have said 25 crore households. But where is the headroom? The headroom is going to be in rural. Digitization is not as big a deal. Digital media is not as big a deal in rural. But the content will become zipping across various screens and television needs to find an intelligent way to stay in the heart of the content dialogue. And this is one thing that I think needs to be done. And I would be happier with television advertising if that was happening. Now television is like I said relevant because A, it is the biggest. B, it is still growing. India's economy is growing at 7% give or take. Every 10 years we will double as an economy. Now when economic growth happens it happens two ways. One is top down and one is bottom up. And in television the bottom up growth is more credible more relevant than top down. Because if in my house if suppose my income jumps to twice you know two fold in five years what will I do? I will not have a television set in every room. I will have a bigger television set. I will have a connected TV. I will probably have more subscriptions paid for. But the volumetric consumption will not go up. So the important thing is it needs to have a race with digitization. There is that old story in the Panchatantra about two kids who were coming back from school and a tiger started to chase them. And they were both running trying to save their life. And then one guy says to the other brother I don't think we will be able to outrun the tiger. So the guy who was running faster says I don't need to run faster than the tiger. I need to run faster than you. Because whoever is slower will be eaten by the tiger. So that's broadly the story of competing medias as well. And not only is it relevant it's powerful because it has effectiveness in audience aggregation. That is still true. It has effectiveness in direct and indirect methods. I can advertise on digital. I can get form fills. I can get click to call. That much of live commerce is not possible with television. But it will not aid my brand measures as much as television will. Because the power of television was it was a tight medium. Everybody was seeing say Chitrahaar at the same time. Now I'm revealing my age I'm about 84 years old. But back in the day when Chitrahaar or the Sunday movie was a big deal. Most of India's big brands were built in that time. In the digital era the brands that have been built are largely digital brands or e-commerce brands. So it is a tight medium in the sense that I am seeing something and everybody else I go to school with or I meet in the colony or are living in my building have also seen the same thing. So we are responding symmetrically to the same stimulus. Today with fragmentation that's not the case. I am seeing completely something else. It is curated for me. It is fed to me. And this is doubly true of digital. So my father who is not very digitally savvy tends to check out news of whichever company I work for. So he was telling me that you know this is a very surprising thing. Whenever you join a company Google starts to give more news about that company. He didn't realize that it's adaptive and it's giving him more information because he's searching for it. Now this is a powerful thing where curating of the medium is concerned. But it's a dangerous thing where advertising is concerned because I don't the market of one sounds very seductive but the market of one I'm not interested. I'm interested in customizing for the market of one and personalization is important. But I'm also interested in hundreds of crores of people at the same time and that I think television is still able to give. Now let me come to this business about OTT. So Netflix which is celebrated across the world proved two things content through internet protocols and subscriber base is live and flourishing. They were able to make subscription work on digital but how is Netflix and I am a great admirer and a regular consumer of Netflix content. I'm just saying this from a questioning point of view how is Netflix different from premium TV because it is not user generated. It is not live and engaged. It is not bite sized. So all the defining characteristics of digital are missing in Netflix. What is true is I don't need to be a couch potato. I can go search and find and I can do binge viewing but that is no different from let's say premium television spaced over a period in time. So the game is the same but Netflix happened to TV. TV did not happen to Netflix or take the case of YouTube. Is that a perfect alternative to TV which is internet ready or is it internet disrupting the world of content and nobody has the right answer. We don't know only time will tell. Now we live in a world where every screen is an access screen. So roughly if I remember right in America color television started in 1967-68. In 1969 Neil Armstrong went to the moon and when NASA sent a man to the moon the total computing power on the planet was less than what is available in your high end washing machine today. So everybody's phone is a television studio is a television set is a screen which allows you access to 50 different things. Now to imagine that somebody will cut away from that and watch television in isolation is expecting too much. So you need to have the centrality for content in the way consumers live their lives and we live in a world where every device practically speaking is a television. There is a transformation in screens. There is a transformation in demographics and there is a transformation in choice architecture and the last one is the most important one. I want to choose what I want to watch. I don't want to wait for you to be in the next episode. Now I find connected TV is probably a good thing to pursue as an economy as a collection of consumers and specially for the television industry because it allows me a certain access to a very special set of consumers and that will fast expand and it also allows me targeted messaging and curation. So it allows for mass and it allows for customization and the genres that are most popularly followed which are true for most advertisers are movies, music, news, etc. And so therefore this convenience is driving audiences towards connected TV provided they can afford it and addressability is driving advertisers to connected TV. Advertisers are by definition very opportunistic people. I have no shame in being opportunistic. If anything gives me one fraction of a percentage more in terms of return I will opt for it and therefore it is the onus is on TV to be able to broad base the bouquet of offering such that I am able to get more portion of my budget goes to them. The challenge is in their court. Now another thing which everybody talks about AI but I didn't have this for fashionable reasons in my business in trucks or in passenger vehicles forget all of that assistance in the sales and marketing domain artificial intelligence is going to allow you to adjust your rear view mirror without you having to do it. So the feed on who is driving on the air updates and the whole experience is going to be more software than vehicle and this is as much true for television and by the way I must acknowledge that media in general and television in particular has lived through probably the most number of technical changes in any industry certainly in this period of time. So in America for example they went from the stations to cable TV it massively expanded because suddenly they started earning distribution fees then it went from cable TV to video on demand and now this cord cutting phenomenon it doesn't work in India because the business will polarize so at the top end there will be very rich audiences which are available in happy niches and then there will be the mass audience which still gets free TV. So cord cutting is not a big phenomenon the bigger phenomenon is where is the interest what is the window of attention and today if I am not mistaken it's anywhere between 2 hours and 2 hours plus for the younger age groups and on average about 3 hours and 30 minutes and that's still humongous amounts of time is another mistake most English speaking marketeers make is that they think that the world is like them so if I am not watching TV at home I think India is not watching TV at home and that's not true because it's so large and so vast and so populous that many things that are happening in say a mirat or a unna or a asan soul or a karur or a katak for the first time may have happened here 15 years ago and many things that are happening in a katak today may not happen here for another 2 years e-commerce is a classic example people like to have access and e-commerce gives them that access so how does television have that I believe AI assistance and this is a simple example of voice commands but I think artificial intelligence will play out in the world of television in very very dramatic ways in the near future I have a teenage boy and for him the television is also a screen and the experience that you get on the large screen for things like gaming so if there is an integral play here I think gaming we have barely scratched the surface in this country and I think television also has a role there now if you see effectiveness as I have already mentioned is always a multiplier between the effort that it takes to reach that many more people and the personalization that I can drive so for decades in let's say in the world of FMCG the challenge was how do I get to that incremental audience and regional TV universes kicked off in a big way they were very competent they were very good content stacks people were making money there advertisers were able to reach so if I am advertising in Tamil Nadu or in Telugu markets or in Kannada I don't have to think of one television across that's why I find it funny when they say regional language because it makes me believe still we think English Hindi and regional language so if you are sitting in Chennai that's not the world view it is Tamil, English and whatever else and that's a wonderful thing for television to explore and exploit now because I began life in FMCG FMCG is a great indicator of which way the marketing dollars will flow and if you see even today the single largest stack is by far the functional advertising that gets done on television Harpic is the number one advertising brand it's a toilet cleaner and it basically tells you that efficiency both in terms of reach and cost per reach but also effectiveness in terms of impact they are not putting that money there because it's legacy they are putting that money there because it gives them a return now let me try and change the slide now in the commercial vehicles business at Tata Motors we have done about 15 to 16 large campaigns in the year hopefully none of you have seen it because if you have seen it then our media planning is not really tight because you are not supposed to be looking to buy trucks but we have explored all genres because our B2B enterprises are largely business driven so business verticals are large on television general entertainment is large for the small commercial vehicles business we have tried to create opportunity stacks in regional languages and now routinely our influencer content is also in about 11 languages we are trying to sell innovations via television anti-collision mitigation system driver alert systems sustainability these are messages that need large audiences because these innovations take time for vehicles on the road for people to experience it so we have been consistently using television to build this also we have been doing content stacks for advocacy and this advocacy is partly on on television as episodic content but also as free as you know free content availability on our universe so we invite people into create capsule content then they put it on mass media and on digital media and on social platforms and it's finger feed for things like WhatsApp because we have 10-12,000 sales people going out every day meeting other people who may be looking to buy trucks and at that time they need to evidence the success and content capsules work well half an hour episodes may not be the way the truck advertising grows television also gives us a larger than life canvas unfortunately I am running late to catch a flight but I will perhaps play just this video to show you how we are trying to tailor make content to make it more appealing not only on television screens but even places like cinema so if we can play this yeah bridge cement how will it reach if there is a lot of education then there is a lot of cement for the school that happens I don't think the audio was the best but there are about like I said 15 such campaigns we try and socialize this first on television plain vanilla storytelling but what is important is what is the deck length how many tons can it carry what is the wheel base what is the service package all of these things don't go very well on television so immediately following the television campaign we will then have an on ground accompaniment we will have influencer content we will have social media content we will be back on television so a few weeks in then build through other means then a few weeks back on and this pulsing is also important for us to be able to gauge the return that we are getting and by and large it has worked well for us and we intend to continue more aggressively on television I am going to skip a lot of the other apps if you go to our youtube channel you will be able to see almost all the recent campaigns almost all of them in some proportion have been on television now India is a growth story in print it is a growth story on television it is a growth story on social media it is a growth story across the world and I think in terms of sentiment analysis that we get routinely India is probably one of the most optimistic places in the world sometimes I feel perhaps we are irrationally optimistic as well but optimism is a good thing because basically if you feel your tomorrow is going to be better than your today then you invest in the future and that investment also means putting money behind things that matter to you so it leads to cross category conflict and television should celebrate that because I have a choice to make should I buy an air conditioner should I buy a 2v dealer should I learn computer programming and that is all coming out of the same wallet so television will have a problem of plenty provided it is able to give addressable audience tax to the advertisers in time and evidence that it works because this rate card business of tired cost for rating point kind of advertising is now facing serious alternatives as challenges so in ending I will say interactive TV in my opinion it is an early bet but it is going to be a big deal connected TV certainly is making quantum increases happen there is growth of regional content and I don't think of India as one TV market now I think of India as at least 10 to 12 distinct television markets there is increasing popularity of niche channels and when I look to launches and aggregation I look to sports we are proudly associated with wrestling we were co-sponsors for associate sponsors for Kabaddi for a long time we invest in commercial time on all sports I find also that the rise of ad free TV is something that should be seriously considered by the television people themselves to see what alternatives they have for those people who will see TV intermediated by advertising the advertising somebody in one of my brand courses in Leavers had said the more you see the more you know the more you know the more you see so it is a virtual and people don't get tired of advertising about India is people actually discuss advertising I have been across the world I don't think there are very many markets where people talk to each other this is not done it is becoming bare bones functional in India advertising is also art it is also mainstream it is celebrated and that is why people continue to invest behind audio visual as the primary medium and behind TV as a large platform I have been writing about it I have been thinking about it and thanks to people like exchange for media I present about it if you have any further comments etc these are my social handles please do write in thank you for your time that's all I had for you today thank you thank you so much Subranshu if I may now request the chief revenue officer of times network Gaurav Dhawan to help us with the felicitation ladies and gentlemen a very warm round of applause an excellent session on how TV has evolved how TV is important in brand building and of course connected TV in the changing landscapes the importance was very much highlighted let's give once again a bigger round of applause to our speaker and duly the spotlight session was great thank you and please have a safe flight ahead and with that ladies and gentlemen before we go ahead to our final panel discussion we've got a presentation of BW business world for your eyes to view BW business world BW business world BW business world BW business world BW business world BW business world I think if you live an interesting life you'll write very interesting stories which is also the beautiful thing about creative life overall learning can never stop there is always something new and I learn from my patients and each one of us will use that choice based on the use that you have to put the technology to the first film that made me sort of see how a human story and the layers of politics we need to investigate the people who are going to fight the war so there should be some mystery in it as my own thought a person may have a very enviable lifestyle externally appear very successful and happy but no one really knows what's happening within it is not going to kill the supply chain it is to empower the supply chain and I am happy to announce that we are still very much in the pilot stage beta testing is going on we are gradually building up our presence little by little as people get more and more confident because of the state of our state isn't we have no option but to build smart and resilient city digital India is more for the poor under privilege and deprived ladies and gentlemen it's now time for our final panel discussion on a very impactful topic we're talking about optimizing media channels for advertising impact well maximizing advertising impact requires a strategic optimization of media channels tailoring content to suit each platform understanding audience behavior as well as leveraging data driven insights truly essential to talk on this it's important to align the message with the medium that so that the advertisers can effectively engage the target audience well it is now time for us to welcome all our eminent panelists on the stage Madhu S. Dutta head of marketing and GM brand media digital social of Raymond limited thank you Madhu for joining us also we have with us Priyanka manager Gandhi director integrated brand experience lead Colgate palm alive India limited thank you Priyanka for joining in Riya Joseph head media and digital marketing Britannia industry is limited thank you Riya Sandeep Gupta COO broadcasting business Shimaru entertainment limited thank you Sandeep and ladies and gentlemen this session is going to be chaired by CEO Zenith the ROI agency let's give our man a big big round of applause so well with that we have a lot in store Jay I leave it in your able hands to curate the session forward so very good afternoon to all of you and I think we we started the discussion already in the in the waiting area so we are quite warmed up to to this panel what we are going to do is we are going to like drift a little bit away from the topic which has been aligned and we are going to get into something which is which is the elephant in the room so what we do is I'll start away get into it and I'll ask each of you all this question pertinent question which is going and you all are all like you know sort of media heads brand heads of large corporates there is a lot of money which you spend on on media and advertising so my first question to you is I'll start with you is tv dead or is tv dying hello hi good afternoon everyone Jay I mean I am completely not in sync with what you are saying and it's a medium which really gets into every nook and corner of India it has a huge mass appeal yes the relevance has not changed but there are alternative mediums which have come up but having said that I think television is still one of the primary medium in every household and especially when it comes to the regional channels the regional penetration because India is many countries within one country so therefore just saying that one medium has died I am not in concurrence to that so but I mean again it also depends on what kind of category that you are handling what kind of brand so depending on the category there are certainly there are changes in terms of the percentage that you spend on different media but television definitely is one of the key mediums to consider thanks so really I'll just move on to you whatever you can answer the point what I am trying to ask while she says that TV is not dead but I want to say that do you foresee it dying in the next 5 years maybe not in the next 5 years and I think I will maybe spin it around TV will die soon and I can't tell you a number of years if two things happen if there is some substantial third party measuring or monitoring which happens for digital that's the first thing and the second thing is of course digital efficiencies have to come down because right now it's almost even for the smallest unit of video it's almost 20x that of TV so if these two happens I think TV can die very fast death don't know when that's going to happen that will happen but that's the only way I can see TV dying because otherwise as Madhu said India is a vast country too many people subscription cost for TV is much much lesser and TV affords great entertainment at a very low value so if things don't change TV cannot die very soon got it Priyanka your take on this so one person is saying clearly TV is not dying Rhea's point of view is that not right now but she foresees it in the next not 5 years or 10 years that probably given certain constraints which digital has TV is probably staring at its death what's your point of view so well in a country like ours where 1.4 billion people you have a rural population a large urban population and you then have maybe the top 25 million people who have really high purchasing power so it's fairly dynamic in that I mean I can go with facts what we have seen and we also deal with a category which is very very deeply penetrated almost everyone buys a toothpaste so it's 100% penetrated we also deal with the challenge of having brands that are mass penetrated to building brands that are talking to a more premium segment which are more specific to a benefit what we have seen is that TV reach still continues to hold on if you look at a longer trend of data the reach would have come down maybe a few points a couple of points what is really coming down is time spent on TV because people's time is now getting spent on multiple devices so and for us it is more and like we say India is a country of and it is not this or that so we do and I do see the relevance of TV holding on for consumers and audiences or maybe segments where it is still deeply reached of course there are still opportunities now and there are sizable opportunities of reaching people through digital so equally possible to build a demand generation model without TV and you have a certain scale of ambition and you want to run a business out of I don't know maybe 100 million people with a certain level of trial and all of that so both are possible but I hard to say that when will TV die I think it is all about finding the right mix of channels and touch points to reach the consumer at the right time and the right message and in that context I think TV still holds strongly for some segments and may not have any relevance for a certain set of segments very interesting Sandeep the ball is in your court now you defend it so yeah so I think there are two perspective to this one with the viewer perspective and the advertiser's perspective with the viewer's perspective TV has a long life because the kind of content that we as Indians watch on TV is very family based and as long as the family fabric remains in India the TV won't die because whatever content otherwise we see is mostly not a family with content either you can see has a husband wife a very limited content is available which is very widely we can be seen with so with that perspective TV would have a longer life as long as OTT regulations come and suddenly OTT has to stay in their content fabric yes then we will have for the viewer's perspective also they will have a better the other thing with this curation a lot of us are we don't get too much of time to spend on anything that you want to curate like why does for me why does YouTube work I would search one of my content that I want to see and in the curation the AI what it throws right when we have so many options right you spend a lot of time in trying to figure out what do you want to watch correct so that's another reason why I feel that this curation helps a lot that's why that's one reason music channels have not died music channels have significantly reduced their GRPs but they have not died because the curation that is being offered our fabric and people know that this is my taste and they will not have to jump here and there so that way is that again is a very big plus for TV the curation aspect of it and the content creation even today if you see OTT platforms like I just read sometime back Netflix has acquired the rights of WWE why because they want to become what TV is doing right so live action which was one of the important aspects of TV whatever they are now creating marketing to survive for them it's not possible unless they have something which is seamless viewership and people have to come regularly so with that competition is there yes what happens with the advertisers with perspective the mix has to be seen based on what you are wanting to promote it is the TG you want to promote it is based on what kind of people you want to promote so basically with the advertisers perspective it is the market and the TG in which you want to reach to a customer and I just saw a couple of days back I think in a TV profit there was a Harit Nagpal was there and I like one analogy of his very very much it was like he was saying that if people are growing right if cars if buses were enough why car grow if cars are growing why metros are growing metros are still getting built everything everything is going to grow and it's not going to not that because metro has started growing the car sale will reduce it's about the convenience it's about the need and so will happen for this medium the medium is providing entertaining content the pipe may vary based on the type of content if the content suits a particular medium it will be there so for that I am not in agreement that TV will like one more data point I just had in last 5 years if we see there is a reduction in reach but if we see the total hours of content consumed if I have to give the analogy 5 hours of 13 minutes is an every households average consumption in TV except for the covid year it's stagnant around 5 hours 13 minutes and if we go in terms of individuals it's some 3 hours some 40 minutes or something so not that their consumption has reduced but as everybody is rightly saying because there are so many mediums because there are so many options there has to be a reduction in reach thanks thanks interesting points you made and with that I will get a little more deeper into TV okay so as we have when we do our planning let's say connected TV approximately 40-50 million households when we look at HDTV again 40-50 million households then you have PTV and then you have FTA so that's the sort of pyramid which we work with while we all know connected TV is rapidly growing HDTV is rapidly growing FTA is rapidly growing like PTV either being stagnant or probably declining and that's largely because of what we believe as cord cutters or cord shavers opting for more connected devices so given this perspective do you as large advertisers do you believe that the money the PTV money is dramatically shifting towards digital digital is one and second is that the growth of FTA means that we are going to see India getting polarized so you have India, you have Bharat so TV is going to become a more medium for Bharat while India is going to become more digital so Madhu your viewpoints on that I personally feel that again in terms of when you are talking about this planning you want to segregate and do the segmentation it also depends on the fact that what are you advertising and which category you are in so I mean from an FMCG point of view the entire approach will be very different versus a lifestyle or any other whether it's car as automobile will be different but having said that that sharp segregation I am not really very clear about but I just give you example about certain platforms when cricket happens cricket is an all India thing when such platforms you cannot segregate because whether it's Bharat or India I mean television consumption on cricket and that's the reason the kind of during a world cup or an IPL the kind of money that is offered in terms of from airing point of view as a brand we all know that what kind of monies are being split and they are being able to demand that because there is a certain audience or there are brands who are wanting to now having said that when you when you see specially for world cup and IPL when you see the kind of advertisers I mean India growing digital and everything we talk about the maximum percentage of advertisers are digital platforms so they are seeing that merit in that platform to reach out to huge amount of people in the mass appeal that we that have so therefore that is also being considered but having said that you know it again from a content point of view the discretion that you are talking about Bharat versus India it depends on what is the content and who you are wanting to reach out to so therefore that amount of I mean it can't be a sharp Bharat versus India it's all about that who you are targeting what content you are targeting and in what category you are operating on so that would be the determining factor for it five point what's your point of view I think your question had two points two parts so the first part was what Madhu answered about pay TV and you know how she's going to address it so I'll try to answer the second one which was I think you asked about FTA and is that bringing down the premiumness of TV was that your question yeah like basically what I'm trying to say is that with pay TV slowly like you know numbers saying that it's declining does it mean that TV is therefore going to be a very Bharat kind of a medium is what I'm saying FTA is growing FTA is definitely growing okay so then what I would say is that we cannot we shouldn't really look at TV as pay TV cable FTA, DD all of them because we look at it as how are we reaching out to the consumers right so whether it is through connected TV pay TV or FTAs we are finally addressing the business challenges to reach out to the consumers and making them buy our product right so like for example if you remember maybe 10 years ago we used to have a lot a huge percentage of our TV budgets on niche channels that we never used to spend because the CPRPs were great right we were also not getting any incremental reach it is because we felt or you know anecdotally we felt that people like us watch a lot more of the star world in national geographic etc this nowadays we have replaced it with connected TV right so whether it is on OTTs or you know connected TV on YouTube or any of those that is how we have done so if you ask me it's just the niche part of it and rightfully so because there is no niche anymore in regular TV right even in HD you don't have niche so that is what is getting replaced with connected TV and that's about it so in Jumar they are watching everything on the same screen it's for us media planners that it has actually become connected TV also becomes digital which is actually which it actually is not so that's where it is Priyanka what's your viewpoint given that you know you handle a brand which has such a large penetration is there a clear bifurcation in when you plan yeah so I'll pick from what she said as advertisers and when we are doing building plans or demand generation we don't look at paid TV connected FDA from that lens and I'll try and tell you with three examples for example one of our brands we wanted to increase our coverage in rural right so if you go with the principles of reaching the people so the first principle is to try and build effective reach through the right set of touch points we know that there are markets like UP and Vihar where rural parts of this almost 40-50% are still media dark and over the years mobile access has led to digital consumption actually or digital reach being higher than TV so there our mix will have a higher composition of free to wear because their reach of free to wear is higher we also use digital for rural because that allows us enables us to get incremental reach then you look at all other touch points so it's finding the right mix and which has a reasonable amount of digital unit on top of TV but the first principle is always which is the highest reach and which is the most effective to reach as the first medium and then you build on top of it now on the other side of the spectrum we have let's say our premium brands like our whitening toothpaste visible white if you decide there we are trying to appeal to a younger audience and a premium audience so there we for example connected TV is a part of that plan because that's a relevant audience and we want to reach them consistently so that's how the mix changes for us like I said there's a core portfolio where we want to reach out to you know large parts of India high reach penetration is high distribution is high for us and then there are these premium brand where we want to be selective we want to target the right people and we also because we have a large toothpaste portfolio for us it is important to differentiate and you know send the right messages to people so where affordability is high we would like people to buy a toothpaste you know multi benefit and has specific benefits where affordability is low and where you have rural India where you know half of rural India is not brushing with the toothpaste every day you need to reach them with the right sort of proposition so that they can you know buy it and the third thing is also you know regional variations and I for example if you look at Tamil Nadu as a state very very high consumption of TV is still there so when you go by numbers and reach build up we still feel that TV coverage is reasonably high and you know other touch points don't give you incremental reach so from a reach point of view that's the lens with which you know if you look at it the other lens with which one looks at touch points is how do you want to connect with the consumers at different parts of the journey so while we are talking about digital more sleep from a YouTube or a social point of view there are other things that a lot of people are searching right a lot of people are going on to e-commerce platforms to search for products and buy products and things so those are also now equally important elements for us because while you are trying to build attention reach with a certain communication you also want to be discovered when people are on a platform searching for you you also want to be there as cool gates offering a solution when people are searching for anything on Google related to oral care because we are leaders and we want to be ideally providing a solution wherever we can so those are other things in digital so if you look at the mix if you look at our overall mix the shift is more towards you know the percentage of TV has come down and percentage of digital has gone up but it is you know a combination of all these things that is also driving the change for example e-commerce media the significant part of our digital investments now I just want to there was a very important point with you which you said and I just want to dwell a little more is about regionalization regionalization of TV so I remember when I started planning there used to be only the southern markets where we would look at a regional plan now you have Maharashtra, West Bengal even the Hindi heartland has become regionalized so one is I just want your views on that in terms of how it helps brands how has planning changed therefore and second is that we are seeing a tremendous amount of growth here from a regionalization point of view regional TV and regional markets are also becoming very important from a media planning perspective does this mean that you know we always do this top-down kind of planning we will have a stop-loss or a Z in our plan and then we keep adding regional channels is the time come where we have to do bottom-up planning you know we plan at state and then we sort of look at national channels I would say wherever there is KL we do bottom-up planning right so the five states I mean the four south states and Maharashtra and West Bengal are reasonably penetrated with regional TV right where the southern market should be in the range of 70-90% regional if you go across AP, Karnataka, Kerala at the end with and then there's West Bengal and Maharashtra which are almost I think 50-60% regional right so you do a bottom-up and there are times when we only advertise in those states you can you know take a call you want to only be in West Bengal or Maharashtra and you can get adequate coverage with now there digital is also an enabler because Hindi in a state like Maharashtra where you can only cover let's say half the population with regional but ideally you want to cover more digital becomes like a good enabler to add on that so bottom-up planning definitely wherever you can I think only when it comes to the Hindi belt if your objective is to cover the large part of north and west then you would start with certain ways of Hindi channels and then you do the builds in that but first principles are largely bottom-up wherever you can sorry what's your point of view on that so I object to the word bottom-up because if you look at it again we are looking at expanding our business we are looking at reaching out to the consumers where the consumers are so I don't think when we start working on a plan we ever start with the staplas or any of those things so also maybe for our brands, Britannia our main strengths is in the south not that we are quite bad in west or east or any other and hence market-isolatable markets like the four south states that she said Maharashtra, east Odisha, A&E etc we really can't start with HSN so if you ask me Hindi is just one of the regional languages all the others are equally important because they also give us that kind of sales to us so that's what we do so it's not a bottom-up planning it's what the business requires and that's how we go out and reach out to the people because in rural markets we obviously need to layer it up with either digital or if there are certain really small pockets maybe we will do some OOH or any of those things but that's again a media planning principle rather than a region or a language-wise planning interesting viewpoints that regional brands obviously will be regional planning but when you look at large national brands there is a choice so you might start with HSM and then add or depending on the pockets of priority you will sort of advertise so interesting but the the mood point is that regionalization in India is definitely growing and it's becoming quite an important part looking closer at tv again we have these genres and I think Reha you made that point earlier that there was a point in time we used to put some money for niche channels and now there are no longer any niche channels left today when you look at tv you have the Hindi GECs or the family viewing as you call it then you have movies, news you have impact shows and all that so from your point of view like on a scale of 5 where 1 being least important 5 being most important what is your priority when you look at your brands and say that this is something which is making more sense to me this probably doesn't make sense and over the years I think this will like what's the sense for music what's the sense for Hindi movies with so much of content being available on OTTs and all that will they still have the relevance which we expected so I'll start from Madhu so I mean having handling we're handling a male lifestyle brand so therefore it's very important that I'm going to be targeting the male audience so therefore impact properties are very important in terms of and with the mass appeal so as I said that we look a lot into cricket because that is a short shot in terms of when you do the segmentation the male audience consumption is extremely high we look at certain channels and not not in the sense that which will have a higher viewership in terms of a male audience point of view and we also look at the fact that in terms of when the segmentation happening depending on what are the business objectives for the particular campaign now there are certain campaigns which are extremely male centric and the campaign you know the proposition that is there whereas when we get into the wedding space and all that the primary audience and the secondary where women play a very important role in terms of the decision making so therefore the channel selection also then we go into a GC as well because there the women are the decision makers so having said that again business objectives are the key in terms of how the media planning is happening and therefore and not just the television would be the key medium because there are lot of other things work we get into a lot of digital there are a lot of you know because it's an experiential shopping that happens so therefore we get into digital from an influencer point of view and how those things add up adding to the different touch points of media communication but yes impact as I said that the most important thing is the impact and there should not be any wastage also media wastage because that's where we said that we look for the male centric properties and news channels also play a very important role because regional as well as English so when we are going into the festivals now for example for us from a consumption point of view like east is very important for us for the Durga puja and all that so therefore we concentrate a lot on the regional channels both from the GC as well as from the movies and news and there are other festivals happening because you would know for a category like ours from September to December those are the very important time of the year for us so therefore it becomes a holistic planning where we would get into specifics on looking at the impact properties looking at what are the channels because that is a very clear targeting of the audience and it is a family festivals are all about family emotions together so therefore GC also plays I think you said the golden word and I think people here from broadcasters will be extremely happy to know that impact is quite important for you quick one Ria so from your standpoint if you were to just put a ranking what is the most important for you and what according to you will become the least important regional number one obviously because Britannia is a very highly penetrated category or most of our brands are in a very highly penetrated category we are a 5 rupee brand of course we have higher SKUs but 5 rupees is the one which sells the most so regional GCs etc and if you ask me those are both equally important impact as Madhu said is very very important because there is no other property in the country like an IPL or even the regional big boss they all actually gives you that extremely fast reach and you can actually see the results on your brand tracks etc from the next month so that's also equally important or maybe I will put it as a rank too what puzzles me the most is Hindi movies don't know what has happened to them after covid I think the media owners themselves are quite puzzled with that possibly because there are all these titles which are getting released on OTTs and people actually have the convenience of choosing the time and they can actually watch it most of them are free as well unless you are obviously getting it on Amazon or Disney hotstar but otherwise that's what it is so Hindi movies puzzling so don't know where that's going but otherwise I think the others are here to stay Sandeep I'll come to you because you'll have to answer this one Priyanka what's your in terms of your attitude one is reach how many people can you reach and how important the cost effectiveness so if you go in that high reach channels tend to be GCs whether it's Hindi or regional at scale and then the mix is what could be cost efficient so in the mix you will also have in the so in that sense we are agnostic of genres we don't go in with a preference or a thing saying we want to be on these genres but we want to deliver reach so we need to be on high reach and we want to deliver it effectively so the right combination of it leads to a mix so as a result of all of this GCs tend to have a really high contribution like I said because we have a huge focus also free to wear also then to have you know a higher contribution and then depending on objectives like you know accelerated reach during launch windows then you evaluate live events and we also do impact also at times but all of those are then evaluated in the context of giving us some incremental impact and then there are quality parameters also on TV right are you buying in the right zone is there adequate prime time your spotting is correct so that you know that you are at least getting more attention versus being in passive zones of TV right that's the Sandeep different Hindi movies different Hindi movies why I at Shamaru I don't have a movie channel as of now in TV but I have worked with my past company was before you we had movies and I think the movies as a problem in TV is that there are too many movie channels as of now and there is a lot of content that's one problem and for movie consumption the habit for a movie consumption people don't see complete movies they see for movie maybe as I understand maybe for an hour 45 minutes and that too they would want to see movies which they know it's not they go to experiment for a movie for the experimental movies they would be happy to curate and go and see where I want they will search that's where our OTT platforms are getting their edge because they will search for the movie for when they go for TV they would only sample the EPG not the channel and in the EPG if they know this is the movie I know it from here how it would be it is entertaining they will stop there otherwise they will move to the next channel so that's the challenge with the movie channels that they are right now more movie channels and the content that they are offering is not too much of variety is the concept that's the challenge for movie channels and impact definitely movie channels help I am sure they are getting good business when they are showing impact so I will just in the interest of time I will just put each of you on a spot right now that's not part of the script that's why I just specifically kept it outside so as per the addicts currently you take whichever industry report they say that digital is approximately 35% TVs are around 30% and digital is supposed to be growing at the rate of 15-20% TV grows in single digits at around 8-10% so this is what we are looking at as the picture from your perspective do you think that TV will grow or do you think that TV will stabilize or TV will come down from your perspective your brands given that this is the way addicts is moving but this is what you perceive for your advertising spin yes it's very unfair it's a furniture problem yeah so see at this current moment the way things are like when earlier we said that that TV was ruling the rules there were no other medium as such other than obviously at an ATL level we are going down to 0H and the rest of the stuff but the strongest medium was television then the new kid has happened with digital and India is obviously from a younger audience point of view we are a very young country so therefore the digital consumption is also pretty high and therefore the platforms and the digital different areas of digital the numbers that you are showing say that digital is growing so I mean that now whether it will I mean it has as far the numbers are going it has over short as far as television is concerned but there are lot of ways that television there are certain things which used to be the key differentiators I mean as long as television doesn't get I mean as long as there needs to be innovation bringing into the television forum because anything which happened or which was you know quite significantly high at 10 years back or 12 years back you can't you know survive with that so when it comes to television there needs to be lot of innovation that will come in having said that whether it will go down or go up is debatable I am no expert to talk about it but I can give you an example from our media plan point of view like if 5 years back or rather 8 years back if it was 80% or 90% television and the rest would be others now we are also because we are wanting to address a certain audience we are trying to address younger audience and the consumption habit media consumption habit have also dramatically changed in the last 4 years so our media in our media plan also the digital intervention has come in way more in terms of it would be today a 65% television and the balances TV so sorry balances digital so therefore from that point of view we are from a marketing point of view all of us are getting into going in that direction but it will stay but then again going back to my firm believe that it is very agnostic to what kind of categories you are in what is your business objective what are what is the proposition you want to reach out to the consumer but effectively from a media point of view what is the mix that works is something that will rule the roost so 65 35 will this change like in the next 3 years do you think this will become 50 50 or do you think it will stabilize at somewhere it will because depending it all depends how the consumers are right because if it has changed from 80 to this number it is because how the media consumption has changed over the years so therefore it is very difficult for me to forecast in 5 years how it is going to be but if this is the the trend that is so it all depends on because from a marketing point of view we need to be effective in what we are doing we need to reach out to the consumer without much of wastage so how the entire thing transpires is going to determine the percentage of media spends clear what is your take so I am going to answer in 2 parts but I will make it short okay so one is that maybe we will talk about India addicts what is the India addicts expenditure obviously digital is coming up and you know the saliency of TV is reducing by the year maybe 1 or 2% right now I think they are at some 34% while digital is at about 58% etc right so you can see that the addicts is favoring digital the growth is also much higher for digital etc however if you look at the mix of advertisers on TV versus digital the difference is very very stark like on TV 45% of their addicts is from FMCG 20% from Ecom and then the rest of it comes up like real estate or consumer durables and all of that while on digital almost 65% of the addicts is from SMEs so which is you know right from a home baker to a person you know doing some delivery etc all of that is part of that huge chunk of 58% of addicts right and FMCG is only about 6% and Ecom is only about 13% etc and these are all industry numbers I'm sure it will keep changing agency to agency but that's where it is so the addicts will keep you know favoring digital and digital is going to keep on growing TV is going to keep on reducing the addicts and the digital growth is mostly because of the SMEs and the smaller newer brands which are coming to the to play rather than the traditional guys changing their media mix drastically having said that I'll come to Britannia we were at maybe see as I said we are probably the most efficient meal for an average Indian or below average Indian right so you can actually fill up your stomach with a Rs 5 biscuit pack right from that perspective we've always felt that we need to do that efficient mass reach etc we were at a 6% to 7% digital salience see maybe 5 years ago now we are at about 15% to 16% right that's also partly because we are also premamising our franchise we are also looking at maybe health cohorts separately etc and that is how the spends also have moved but that movement is here and here to stay and lastly I will say I won't know whether it is going to go really high etc because these are all experiments that we have done in the last 2-3 years business results will also decide whether we will keep going in that same steady growth for digital investments saliency otherwise it's always going to be a beaten watch so as far as the addicts is concerned estimates say that the digital spend is actually higher than TV when you look at the overall world right and I guess if you project it in future the trend will be it will start growing slower than what it has but it will be growing faster than TV so somewhere it will TV reach is stabilised I don't think it's I mean it's declining slightly over the years and I guess pricing will be under pressure as a function of demand and supply so we don't I don't see it growing but I see it having a significant percentage at least for the next few years as far as collier is concerned and we have 2 big pillars one is the co-opants and one is driving premiumisation those are our 2 sort of pillars of growth on TV planning and reach planning I think we've optimised and I think we've done a good job of getting to those reach levels right so just it will be a function of business and which brands do we invest in but if I assume that premiumisation is a bigger lever of newer launches and more things coming the shift towards digital will be more just as a function of you know of the mix so even if you hold TV with newer investments coming in the mix could the growth on digital is going to be higher Sandeep would see your point of view on the overall so fortunately Shimaru has a good share in OTT in YouTube in its own OTT Shimaru me and our channels so I'm not afraid of all these words what I actually feel is advertisers change consumers wherever whichever medium can provide that set of consumer that any particular brand is looking for will do on a larger base when we see that okay the ecosystem of TV the ecosystem of digital for a fair share definitely because the growth rate of digital is higher as a consumption also it will definitely grow higher because and as you correctly pointed out there is larger influx of business which is coming and everybody is trying to know if they have to grow they have to advertise they have to have their share of voice that also is increasing not that it's a limited kitty which is now getting lesser for TV and going all together for digital TV revenues are decreasing to the expectation that they were planning for for sure right but the growth is definitely in commensurate to how things are changing if at TV we have to increase our share we have to increase our content offering to the larger mass and when there is there is limitation this is all the kind of regulations so I mean I mean I mean agreement that there will be a less growth for TV and digital differently but that doesn't mean that TV will be sulking that TV would not grow it has to be optimized even for TV the digital like the connected TV is the same option right it's just moving on the same medium to a different medium or how we at TV we have to figure out how do we make it more interactive to technology changes and if that happens in future advertisers will come it's because it's completely not the medium it's the complete it's the viewer if we can catch up the current kind of viewer the advertisers will be moving to whichever side possible I think we had a very interesting discussion while we started off by like you know me posing a question saying TV is dead but it's clearly you have to stay TV has a very important role to play we've the another very like I think heartening news for a lot of broadcasters is impact plays a very big role and and we've got three large advertisers here who believe in the power of impact the visualization is the third point which we picked up that regional India being such a strong regional market again TV plays a very important role I think the point which we couldn't discuss and obviously because of time is on the measurement part and while we had an offhand discussion that TV is the most measured medium so overall I think we've reached a sort of a conclusion that TV is here to stay it's not like while there are rumors and you know whatever going around but there is a long way for TV any any questions or anything from the audience before we sort of wrap this up yes Gaurav and we forgot to mention news also plays a very important role so thank you yeah firstly Jay and the entire team there great thoughts from all of you take it as a great sign of encouragement we'll come back to you with increased budgets on TV having said that what I want to know is see one aspect that you largely covered was the reach impact little bit measurement but one aspect that I would like maybe all four marketers to throw some light is how do you see the TV environment playing for content no branded content has become a very large part of you know conviction and building conviction especially during COVID it was seen that brands that had actually built conviction for their franchise actually performed well in COVID these are these brands that did not do that they were only busy doing transaction and ROI analysis so fundamentally do you as marketers see the role of TV being important in content and is that relevant for your brand anyone would take that up actually content has to be defined based on what you want to do right what's your purpose and what's your objective is then you then decide whether what kind of content and storytelling do you want to do so for example if you pick up a bigger agenda which was like Swachh Bharata whatever and then therefore you want to have content creation and use different kinds of you know whether it's influencers create educated content is then when you start looking at okay if I want to there has to be an objective then you will create something and then you will measure against that and I guess the channel then is chosen based on again what is the role of the channel so it could be news and I know news a lot of these things happen because I guess news is perceived to be a credible platform it is it is a platform where you get you know influencers and you get people talking and it's generally educated but like I said there's no it is again a function if you have a mission to build oral health in India and if as part of that a content strategy which is beyond just brand advertising becomes a serious part of our communication mix then we will go out and create the content and then it we may not just do it on one channel then we'll also figure out where do we want to do it and then how can we do it and what it takes to do it you know so I think it stems from what's your purpose what's your mission and therefore you know do you need a content strategy thank you thanks I believe in an interesting time Jay would you like to have your closing remarks yeah we close the discussion you know where we started off by saying that you know what's the role of TV and we clearly believe that TV has a important role to play there are there are genres which continue to sort of define the advertising plans such as impact news Hindi GC regionals play a very important role yes probably the mix might go as per what the consumer is viewing so TV digital might grow a little faster than TV but TV is here to stay thank you so much Jay on curating such an excellent conversation with all our eminent leaders may we request a big round of applause for all our eminent panelists who have joined us today one last bit of course we'd like to have the hashtag e4m TV first moment to be in place and for that if I may request Nazia Avi Rehman editor with e4m to kindly join us and help us with the felicitations so maybe first up I would love to thank Mr. Jay Nala thank you so much thank you so much Madhu thank you so much Ria thank you Priyanka thank you Sandeep and if I may request all of you to please come together as a group photograph let's get the final moment in a hashtag e4m TV first my ladies and gentlemen that was a great session on optimizing media channels for advertising impact and I hope there's a lot to take back from every session you've been a part of a lot of key learnings have happened so far and we hope that you keep growing in your professional endeavors thanks to conferences and summits like these well with that a big thank you to all our panelists so ladies and gentlemen with that you've been a fabulous audience we'd like to humbly thank each and every one of you of course we would now request you to kindly step out as we have now time for us to revamp this arena for our awards which is coming up next if you are a part of it we request you to kindly re-register at the registration booth this is me Bhavna Bhatia signing off for today and we might want to leave with the partner presentations for all of you