shit she is um and then she gets really frustrated like because this is happening again ignore all the dialogue and the whispers right now just pay attention to the expressions and the the staples next one goes in and she likes this is the kind of face you make when you just struggle into fucking ignore the pain it's fine yeah i'm dealing with this fine and then she does this expression of um oh it's not anything anyway it's just like whatever see like like trying to roll her eyes at the at the at the idea of it getting better at controlling herself um and then this expression straight after it's like she's like losing her mind because what is even happening here you're trying to pretend that it's not painful to come across to yourself as last week are you fucking insane like what the hell is happening yes and so you get these expressions of her just and everything's flipping out and she's like uh what am i even doing and then the last one that one goes in and she's like sighing chilling out that's in the moment of the scene where she remembers it's katlyn and then you get the best one which is she puts the last staple in and fucking cackles it's almost like we're going through a little bit of an arc here like just just laughing at the pain now um she's got a lot going on so the thing that i was gonna it's not as much detail to it as that um the the eye that's covered by the shattered part of the uh mirror is the same eye that's covered that uh silco's messed up eye the same one or at least on the same side if you keep in mind that mirrors reflect the image yeah um i really like how like this is i can't recall the time before this that you could actually make out the words that milo's like ghost voice no i think this is the first time that we hear them properly uh and we hear them again it's still tough to make it out i would say yeah but yeah there are there are words you can get out of it that are questions she's responding to which i think says a lot about her mental state yeah that what that he's getting louder yeah he's louder than he was before and i guess it's like just in case you hadn't noticed she is having conversations with like entities of some sort i feel like a whole throughout the whole show a lot of people watch her scenes and they're like yeah i get it she's nuts but i'm just like there's so much more happening um well it is just the thing this is animation so like all of those expressions were deliberate like very deliberate someone sat there and thought about those and took time to create them multiple people um it's all on purpose and i think knowing that it's all on purpose it's like hmm you know like there's a lot to read into uh all of these disagree on the interpretation that uh whatever this is a small wound instead it seems jeek jinx is almost losing consciousness definitely not losing consciousness in this scene she's getting more active getting more and more into this i mean that doesn't surprise me either she's not going to be like the pain from a staple into your hand is annoying as hell i wouldn't say that's going to make you knock out that's nowhere near enough um it's your pussy it's an open dash on the leg that's got to hurt like a bitch but like the progression is her wanting to not tolerate the fact that hurts and you know like i said she's trying to brush it off that i think she realizes how absurd the situation is that she's trying to lie to she knows it's painful there's no brushing it off either you it doesn't it's like there's nobody here but that's not true it's not that there isn't nobody here that's what's so good about it yes that's why it's working yeah uh yeah because she's got all that going on while thinking about did my my sister's alive first of all holy fuck and she still likes me but does she though because she was with the enforcer and savika said that she was here with the enforcer for the gemstone but she came there for me like oh it's that poor brain of yours yeah if all these people talking down to you try to tell you different things and you see all those conflicting things happening to you it's like i don't know what's real i don't know who's lying who isn't and also i'm hurt and i'm hurting and i'm trying to lie to myself and are they lying to me or are they not i don't know what's she does never she never receives a consistent line of information that is never in doubt like it's always but wait a minute what about that hmm what about this yeah and she has a friendly manifestation of doubt in her subconscious that's always talking to her about all of these doubts she has yeah really nice thanks my love hard disagree she's definitely being shown to nearly pass out at the end of the last staple no she's just relaxing because she's done the job and she's remembered the name these are two things she wanted to do yeah like that the stapling is done yeah she's just relaxing it's not passing out um look at that flying thing up there oh what about Jicks's like motif going in the music which others like discordant violins oh yeah beautiful discord violins yeah discord violins i like discord violins um so yeah uh vi get shown echoes sanctuary and she's like you built all this and he says after vanda silco filled the lanes with shimmer um and everyone who came here was an addict or a victim and they needed somewhere safe to start again which is like oh man echo you're a legend huh you're trying to fix the lanes yourself and he even says like in relation to the mural that uh all the people who they've lost over the years uh the kill count is much more to silco than it is to the enforcers at mural is a really important part of echo's character it's an incredibly significant thing in his material long before the game uh long before the show not long before the game the game whoa now we're getting into the deep lore because like in in the teaser for him when he was showing up he was defending a mural it didn't look exactly like this of course because it's changed um from a weird chem monster thingy uh and the stinger of the whole thing is that in defeating the big thingy attacking him uh he ends up destroying the mural so when this time travel he goes back to do the entire thing again because protecting that mural is like more important than not getting the shit kicked out of him again like multiple times also they're asking them incredibly highly how can i comment on the pain of being stapled i've stapled myself twice in my life by accident really what a great what a great way to be able to dunk on someone fucking painful for sure but let's just say i'll have you know i was wired after stapling myself it's a sharp shooting pain uh and then you'll like get this fucking thing out of me i wound up with a staple through my finger he's no possible way he knows what this feels like i did it twice actually yeah first one was like primary school where i was just stapling paper together just because that's typically what you do and i remember going like staple staple ah it's like what the fuck is happening it's like yep you just stapled a piece of paper to your thumb like nice uh now this is a part of me i'm a cyborg that's great does that leave scars because i have a school station re-scar uh that it's just two really small dots in this i don't think i can see it on my thumb yeah i didn't i didn't keep a scar from mine staple is a deadly weapon i sliced my finger open with a like a tool we were using an art class once and still have that scar me that's fun i sliced my arm open with a box cutter in while in work this sounds like a suicide setup doesn't it but it really wasn't the scar for that looks cool but uh yeah i was just opening boxes and i slit and then i saw blood dripping and i was like wait what and that's how like shallow the wound was i couldn't even feel it um anyway guys you couldn't feel it could you cut your arm off oh my god oh that's annoying yeah another thing he's uh echo says is um if i'd been with you guys that day things might have been different um just like oh man i don't think so you're a little cherub you probably would have been more you might have died i says that so yeah i think if i said you probably would have been a ghost a spooky ghost puppet ghost ball um he shows her the mural in response to her saying i know my sister i can reach her and i think what he's trying to show her is that the people in the mural are dead gone and powered as one of them yeah um yeah and he says uh your sister works with him not because she has to but because she wants to i'm sorry but that's who she is now it's not easy for vi to hear i don't think nope i think it's easy for echo to say she certainly doesn't even consider it um yeah then we get a pretty there's so many good scenes in this uh the we're at the bridge and it would appear that victor has been held and uh jace comes personally and he's like what the fuck are you doing do you know bad it looks for me to set this bridge shit and then have my own partner break it and victor is literally like i like you ordered this like that's it it's not even about apologizing or trying to explain you just like you ordered this why would you do that you dumbass um yeah and he says uh there are people down there hell bent on destroying us and then um he's like yeah i went there for help and he's like help from from the under city the person you went to to help they're dangerous that he just goes i'm from the other city i'm yeah it's like and then he gets up and he's like i'm the fuck out of here now some real cringe posting from jace yeah you're gonna lose thecriber man that's a victor unsubscribed uh yeah great great little moment that's probably gonna make jace think maybe a little harder on it's like damn that's true whoops um you can see how he would have arrived at this point his experience in the city has been getting bombed and attacked like it's easy to really perhaps a prejudice like this i suppose the impact is on his character i think is most clear when like just after he stands there and says i have posted cringe and then looks down at his feet yeah he knows like he knows the cringe no i'm getting ratio is like it's easy to it's easy to fall into traps like that victor quote tweets him and it just sets off a chain reaction he quote tweets him the sanet chief is this you this you this year uh victor was looking at his cane there for a second noticing that yeah the cane there right at the bottom that used to be his cane do you see that he's looking at it oh wait you mean at the near the beginning of the scene at the beginning of the scene yeah he's looking at his uh crotch and then sort of looking at the cane pot you mean that like the handle almost for the yeah wow i think it's thinking about that used to be cane that i would just behold now look at it well that's half of it the other half is probably that he knows that there's shimmer in that right now yeah yeah um but it's it's all it's it's yeah he's working on but the love was there and uh jay says did you get help and he said no he said nature is resistant to this sort of tampering just like hmm that's not what happened in that scene you're a lawyer that'd be really funny but what this all was like so that's actually not what uh sin just did he actually did provide help so that is a plot hole that's what your critiques are like more no yeah i'm melting uh yeah then jay sees um they some some people throw molotov which is just obviously bolstering the um his perspective which is going to get super bolstered in the beginning of the next episode we'll get there um but yeah i really feel like it's this is the point in the show where she's like fuck jace your life sucks right now you've got so many he's probably the most powerful person in this world at least as we know it like within piltover and zon but like that's part of the problem he can make significant changes but he's just not sure which ones to commit to as well as like he was fully invested in this thanks to his relationship with victor who's struggling to like those those two's relationships getting stressed as well and then it's like this whole bridge thing was that even a good idea like i'm not 100 sure and then the stress of what he did to heimerdinger a lot of people like to say that jace is kind of meh um i question is wrong to say that he's got a lot going on i only said that at the beginning wrong people say it what was that you just said jay i said at the beginning not the end jace is a really interesting story of an idealistic person trying to do good true and then we get the i just remember all the villain scene basically all the villains meet up and have a chat yeah i was totally expecting to at least recognize one of them from the game but i was like nope i was expecting a few different people here uh from like either the game or the card game it's just such a prime scene it's like oh we can just put like characters from the game in there like people are gonna like that but i didn't do it they do their own stuff disgusting gross um put it back in the box you get uh they basically make it clear that things are getting fucked up by that bridge situation uh everyone's checked and they go over it's really hard to do trading and um silco is like jinx will take care of it and they're like yeah well what we've heard jinx is fucking off her leash right now and uh you're like you're losing control basically and then their little air conditioning machine stops and it's like oh maybe it's a little too cold in here maybe they want to warm up nice et cetera of them that's nice and then uh savika's fucking around with a tank in the back and starts releasing a gas and they're all stuck oh no and he tosses out some uh some gas masks and they all pop them right on while giving another just silco level quality speech about how he's the one as much as we've heard a lot about how much he destroyed the lanes with shimmer he's the one that apparently made the air much more breathable um he's the one that he's brought it higher than it previously was in many ways and he's frustrated i love the libraries like you've grown complacent and fat like under these good times and he's you've forgotten the powers of left it's uh it's just it reflects a lot of things right a lot of things we're a bunch of people that were helped by a silco are now like you're not good enough he's like how the fuck did you even get here remember that um yeah there's a question of how is silco immune to the to the gas because like even savika puts on a mask all i've got for that is that he's got an infection from the thing from the water i think it's highly important water talks it says you don't recognize it this isn't i don't think this is actually gas this is the air they had to breathe before which i guess you could call that like gas but that seems to be his implication there yeah that's just so co was there at the time that this was the air at the time it could be yeah it could just be that he's used to it um yeah i think i think that's the point uh finn is trying to make when he you know doesn't go for a mask because silco doesn't have a mask yeah it's oh yeah he's he's definitely trying to come across as though this doesn't bother him either but it's clear that he can't handle it collapses and he starts begging with his hands the yeah and silco knows that he's not gonna be able to put up with this for very long and he's just and like the the mask is ready to be taken but finn doesn't want to have to take it yeah uh oh what uh i got robots is that me or that seems to be your buddy seems to be fine on my end yeah uh okay button i might have something's up hello hello hello hello let me check out something now i'm still on the green i don't know i don't know i think no rags is having the thing again oh by rags he's just gonna talk as long as he wants to right does that all the time we'll go to singapore see if that does anything welcome to singapore hey we're back i was okay so that wasn't just me then well no it's not horrible for me oh no oh wait no no it's fine calm down someone in chat said that um silco does eventually breathe from the mask it's like i only i don't even know that he only does that once and it seems more so like a look i can breathe with this you can't because you're on the floor this is nice yeah that's what i assumed um yeah he puts them all in their place and it's a great fucking performance and it's like one of the 10 problems silco's got to solve it's just like a life of silco so good meeting before uh the chat went all tizmy i was curious because i don't think i was i think i was paying attention to all the other things that were happening but our boss man our raiden boss man guy um with the with the mechanical lower jaw does it ever animate does it ever change or does it is it always a static piece of metal when it seems to always be metal also also his name is fin apparently yeah i believe he is also a fan i can't remember who right um i don't think i don't think it moves as an object itself obviously it moves with his jaw right yeah yeah yeah but it all keeps together yeah i was i was curious because in games that's a thing that happens a lot if you have armor skins and what it stretches and bends around the character yeah like it's like it's a piece of flesh elastic yeah yeah um something cool that i don't know if anybody else noticed the before and after of the background in this scene back hit out oh the things are dead plants are with him that's cool that's quick that's really awesome though i think i don't know if it's on the i think on the top left those plants look a lot like uh picture plants and they lure in tiny critters insects and then they get stuck in the sap and then the plant eats them it's a carnivorous plant neat so i don't know if that's uh supposed to mean anything particular but i don't know um something like gas acts very fast it's um we just have to assume that it's directly poisonous more so to like flowers and shit um and it and it just sucks to breathe as well for the people gotta get the right thing on the screen there we go um but yeah silco says we came from a world where there was never enough to go around and that is why we fight uh very annoyed with these people understandably so moving on get to visit new people get off my ass i'm trying to deal with oh why uh mel's little friend is talking to her about some stuff they mentioned um this threat from the under city makes us look vulnerable and then mel says it's too soon jace isn't ready and i assume she's referring to gotta push him a little further before pulling the old let's make weapons card which they're gonna try soon um because jace has been against it for a long time but we're getting there in terms of convincing him and that's what i think mel's goal is but during the scene she's also handed a letter with the noxious symbol on it spooky who knows what that'll do um yeah i actually like this interaction right so this this clearly a kid hands uh katelyn a bowl of water after she's just been had a mass taken off and it binds kind of removed and she uh she like looks at the kid then she like pushes all day frustrated look and hits it out of his head like that's what i'm supposed to do i think because this is rude yeah like because yeah yeah that i could imagine echo just being like oh fucking hell it's just water yeah it's just a matter of vibing like it's chill we're chill let's go have a little walk around stop everyone oh oh moller do you do you like the kids fingernails oh yeah you're right i did i did spot it i didn't think to mention it um wait what about fingernails no i'm curious i'll show it with yeah he's got red and black um dick or yeah they look oh because i guess looking at here i thought it was orange and black like halloween which is that's why i hesitated i was like it might be it could be like a fated out red or an orange i think i think it probably is an orange actually kids just going trick or treat slaps it out of his hand well he's wearing a mask too so yeah he's got oh yeah it's all coming together on halloween uh um but then we get a scene of silco almost like depressingly is setting up his device and it like i always interpreted that as him being like oh i wish jinx would do it for me but okay but it turns out she is not like this no she is here it's like oh shit because he's been looking waiting for him to talk to him for a while she's very aggressive and unhappy right now obviously he's gonna be a little bit worried about dealing with this but it's just so funny that he just dealt with all of his fucking lieutenants being dicks now he's got to do this it's like okay let's do it um so yeah this we can really do to summarize the scene is just silco reassured so that he didn't lie he didn't know and that uh he tells her very explicitly vi is not here for you she's here for the gemstone for sure and that uh we need to finish i think he says we need to finish the weapon in this scene um which does pretty much convince her but there is just i express fully enough this ended up in the uh one of the boba fat videos just the expression change in this bit where uh she's she seems sure of her position and that she's kind of enjoying causing him pain because she's she's certain of what he's done but he does do a really good job of convincing her that she's mistaken which it's so unfortunate because it's like a lot of what he's saying is true a lot of it isn't um and it's just what i added to it yeah his her psyche falling apart because she really doesn't know who to trust um but yeah uh how her face changes here from like almost rage and uh he starts talking about do you remember what happened how i found you i took you in i know what else was and yeah she just drops from anger to just sad and contemplative i guess and they do a fucking excellent job of making it clear that's exactly what's happening all those eyebrow movements and eye movements the little the little blinkies like she's trying to hold back tears yeah with all the blinkies distortion effect from her mind being what it is um yeah she's having a lot of trouble here uh and that's the thing um if you remove vice like who's the next person that gets straight to sort of a jinx's core it's like silco is next up because he's essentially been her dad so she's not um able to stay as confident with this and obviously she's uh she's questioning it and then i think the scene's way of saying she believes silco is that she she does the uh injection but then runs off yeah she's still struggling but she does take what he said to be true essentially which is not good in a sense of as a viewer you're like great now she thinks of i really doesn't care about it but um not enough evidence yet surely so you know maybe something good can still happen yeah i think he says she and the enforcer are back for the stone not for you i am your family not them and i need you now more than ever rives what did you think of jinx at this point like what were you thinking in terms of where she'd be heading where she'd be heading i don't know at this point i'm still at this point i just i don't know i could see it going either way but and and i wouldn't be surprised if it went either way because either way would be pretty well justified she is there definitely struggling to figure out what she wants and what she needs to do yeah it's it's not like i was it's not like for instance i was watching a role in emirate film and i was i was i was i knew in my head everything that would happen just because i just knew what he does and i like you're gonna die you're gonna do that that's gonna come back later to be this that's it that's it and you're just kind of calling it all out and watching it all fall into place eventually but not in like the clever oh they're setting this thing up so this is gonna have is what's more of those eye-rolly kinds of you're just following your formula checklist just following a beat regardless of whether it makes sense to do that yeah but here it's definitely an aspect of we could go multiple ways and both are pretty well informed so uh we just don't know just don't know um so yeah we got a pretty cool scene with katelyn getting introduced to the sanctuary and obviously um she's not quite gonna swallow everything that is being put out there that i could have put that better um about the state of the world because she has a very different perspective for example uh echo is talking about how the silco pays enforcers to hunt us and then katelyn is like that's not true even we know it's like well i mean oh well but of course she's an enforcer so she's like what the fuck she's not aware of any of the corruption um and she says if the enforcers have become more aggressive then the gemstone is why and uh echo says yeah but we can beat silco with the gemstone and she says that's just gonna make things worse she says if you keep this the cycle of violence will never stop the city needs healing more than i ever realized let me help you but sure it's pretty fundamental for the whole show i am oh yeah fundamental for the character as well yeah this is big for for katelyn she's realized very thoroughly now that stuff's going on she's fully out of the sheltered life that she was trying to leave and like yeah she's seen the real world that people tried to keep from her and oh man is it fucked and i think when she gives that sort of speech about understanding that the city needs help and that's her only goal you have vi in the background staring at her quite longingly uh i think at first she's kind of with echo in the gosh darn top-siders then as katelyn talks she starts getting a little bit like oh wait hmm and then she has a face where i'm trying to get to it but these things to me are little bits from the show being like yeah what might be going on you just saying am i like what i'd so really like that echoes just not just hands it over it's like oh yeah okay i trust you now because that would already break his character we know it for as of now just like okay you make a good point but i'm coming with you and i hand it over because i don't fully trust you yet yeah it's satisfying because it feels like that's something that he would demand and there's benefits to it um but yeah they're heading over to built over great yay vi is a degree of respect for katelyn now vi doesn't want peace especially not with silco vi wants to kill silco so no she wants everyone to be better off in the undercity she definitely wants to kill silco herself more than likely but she doesn't want if you remember episode two she learned all about like how ultimately a big war is definitely not what we want we just want to get rid of silco so she's very much happy that katelyn's concluded that it's true that everyone here needs help and that should be built over his responsibility to do something about it and then we go over to victor and mel and jace just having a chat about this i guess grenade that was given by silco to marcus to jace with the commentary that it's from the fire lights not the uh not silco's goons and uh i think even victor says like it's um it's like he's like impressed with it even though it's really crude right i can't remember what he says exactly but um it's crude but inspired yeah yeah and then mel is like is this evidence that they could weaponize hextech and victor's like i don't know about that like this is a bit of a this is a bit of a leap i think he even says it's a leap um but of course this is mel is cranking it up uh the pressure from what she's she wants which is to encourage the creation of weapons and she says if we assume the worst and they've made a weapon with a gemstone we need to prepare countermeasures and uh i think victor just like freaking out already just like absolutely not he knows immediately what jace is thinking he's like no no stop it yeah and i think she says heimerdinger's inaction is what brought us here and um if you just keep an eye on victor throughout this scene he starts not talking as much and just fucking frowning because he knows that his input isn't valued essentially which in a sense is partially his own fault he's uh avoided getting involved with any other stuff but he also knows that um this is i think i think he can start to detect a little bit the jace is being manipulated um and he's also worried about what decision he might end up making because uh as she leaves she says the decision is yours to jace and victor's just right there doing this all about the hextech and he's just like yeah and he says uh we're scientists not soldiers hextech is supposed to improve lives not take them improve jace says one of those lines and victor gives one of those responses that i think you like mr more like we don't have a choice but look like there's always a choice yeah he says we may not have a choice there is always a choice true victor absolute shad which he says just after disarming that grenade what did they mean by this do you think uh oh you mean because yeah so probably for the sake of people listening victor accidentally triggers the the grenade and it starts to go off but he disables it right before it explodes um i don't how convenient do we need to explain what that represents when he says there's always a choice disabling the bomb before it explodes you can there are things you can choose to do there's a choice but you feel compelled to do some things uh yeah i like it um really oh yeah so jace says he needs to think about it and he ends up going to his um his home that we saw in the first three episodes and i think he speaks to his mum i can't remember if that's yeah i think he says to i'm worried i have to do something i never thought i would uh and i think the way the shot works oh yeah because this is kind of a montage sequence actually we get a lot of different things happening so echo is leaving the sanctuary with katlyn and vi and victor is carving uh runes into his not only his skin but his um his brace as well which is interesting to think about uh that whatever he's trying to do he wants it to apply to not only his actual body but the uh the metal that's supporting it you know or maybe he doesn't at this point well here's i was thinking he's had that on for so long now he almost subconsciously just imagines it as a part of him i mean well that he probably just doesn't want to etch it into his own skin well does he already put it in his own skin oh okay yeah yeah that's why i assume it was just okay i thought the skin came out i thought he did it in the skin later he um i think it's just a leg for this one he does it for his whole body next time uh or at least he puts on his torso as well anyway yeah he's he's prepping that up and uh i think we see heimerdinger is a little cloak he's getting on a little boat and you're just like oh geez what are you up to mr heimerdinger we haven't seen him since he was fired floats and boats floats and boats and we uh gotta get me some cloaks and boats you didn't see in a lot of these little little flies that's you know a lot get them around intriguing hmm what that means hmm um and then we get the bridge the bridge scene begins with 14 of minutes of the episode still left because a lot of stuff happens on this bridge oh yeah and uh jinx is on it so she's keeping an eye on everything and still figuring out exactly where she stands on this whole vi situation um you might wonder why is she here i imagine that those flies were a form of keeping an eye on people slash being around uh jinx is probably uh managed to find uh echo slash vi slash katelin's little group and she's following them and now she's on the bridge because that's exactly where they're heading and she's um figuring some stuff out doesn't quite know what she's doing about anything just yet meanwhile victor injects his leg with the shimmer that uh singed gave him and jace makes a conclusion and uh i think they give away what it is with showing a little page in his book from when he was a little kid yeah everyone who played the game was like literally yes everyone is desperate to see him hold a fucking hammer if they've played the game like please give him a hammer i want hammer time give it to me rumble isn't in this show hammer zime hammer zime i need hammer zime um but yeah hymening has crossed now he's at the undercity don't exactly nobody's up to just yet wow calling it the undercity just because he's there they call it the under city it's they're weird you know it's always excuses that's what makes it okay is it yeah that's what makes it oh i can use their word now all right victor puts his hand on the core and he goes and then we don't know what's happening and i can pretty much guarantee that everyone who played the game at this point thought that the next time they'd see him he would look entirely different uh but he's very very different yeah not just yet and you also see the the core already having like goopy stuff in between now as well yeah well he's touching it it's like ew why is this looking like that it's gross um be a halfwayish across the bridge vi decides that uh she shouldn't leave the undercity she should uh work on powder see if she can save her she thinks she can break through those two should go and sort out the gemstone going to pilt over um and then uh here in katelyn hug and jinx sees it and it's just it's kind of funny because she says to herself exactly what i would try to tell her to carve it out she says it's just a goodbye hug like yeah it is it is just a goodbye hug they're fine it's chill don't worry about it doesn't mean anything but um i feel like this image summarizes yeah well yeah look about phantom shadow milo is like oh i think you're looking great fucking image yeah i don't know if we've been explicit on it yet but i think it's very clear what milo represents at this point he is a manifestation of every self-doubt she has ever had about anything she thinks because he never believed in her he was always down there once it's always the one who's like you're fall do you jinx everything you're shit stay home and forever it's not that jinx is worried they're lesbians jinx is worried that katelyn has replaced her uh it's specific my sister knows they best not be fucking stink jinx has become a stink better not get more you call this stinks like stings well that's the only fucking outfit she wears she probably smells terrible she just has multiple the same one gosh like homo if the if the water you have to wash things in the undercity is just that uh that that gloopy water and yeah and she walks off and she's like all right then it's fine it's chill she's gone then they're not even they're not even together anymore it's totally fine um so yeah then she walks off they're walking places and they finally get up to the area where the the popo is at and the big old spotlights are spread on him and marcus walks up which is like i don't know if you've just been paying full attention just like oh fuck what's he gonna decide to do yeah uh-oh basically like this is the thing you've got to realize at this point the threat is on his daughter uh what do you do he's in between a rock and a hard place i also undoubtedly i like the way they have um katelyn holding her id kind of neat because i know a lot of people do it that way or they put that one finger behind this stuff just better it's easier to project it i think or at least have a better hold but yeah and she she says which is helpful for her but not for the situation uh i have proof silk is behind it all it's like oh the worst you think you think it's the best thing to say but it's actually the worst thing to say oh no it's one of them dramatic ironies yeah and marcus you know has them pull down their rifles and you're like okay okay because um i actually thought that he would basically be like i'm gonna have to take them in um but i was wrong uh and it's the thing it could have really gone many ways because marcus is a character torn between many different things right now um the detail i enjoy actually we're almost there uh echo shows that they have the gemstone as proof which is not good for jinx that's watching right now because that means they fucking stole it like and that was seemingly all they were there for that's that's here in secures again a milo is getting a little bigger and closer and she's uh doing less to get rid of him so you know that's building up but um yeah what i like about this is echo realizes the gun's coming and his action is to close the gemstone container like that's the one thing he gets to get done before the gunshot comes out i just like because echo is fast but he ain't that fast um yeah and yeah it doesn't surprise me that he had protection uh with what echo gets up to every day yeah he's a busy guy yeah so marcus fighting a lot echo uh intention looked to kill and he pulls the push the gun then on katlyn while grabbing the gemstone and i imagine that he's just he's stressed out probably thinking about how he's gonna have to cover this up but also does he want to kill katlyn cannot uh cure him and that's yeah it's probably not a good idea it's not even well i just think it's more like an action now yeah but that having happened makes vice sprint back yelling for katlyn i heard a gunshot and what does that do for jinx you have milo fucking becoming like this hulking shadow monster that's getting bigger and bigger and bigger it's really creepy it's oh my god i've never looked at it frame by frame like you're doing is like honestly it's fantastic jinx that's it she's she's just too much and then she just says liar it's like oh no liar well it was a little differently than anakin but you know the same sort of situation that means that means worse than anakin anything different than anakin is worse of course that goes without saying perfect um and yeah marcus i think says something like you couldn't just leave it alone um which i think is just standard for he's trying to make this her fault instead of his choice like he glances back across to like the other enforcers there and then in a in a hushed tone i think he's still like concerned about what's going on here it says like just you can just leave it alone dude like because he doesn't want to do this it's very abundantly clear on his face oh yeah we get that well yeah so anyway vise running toward them and then a flock i guess of these little little butterfly things come in it all seems pretty chill warm right up until they land and yeah uh just before they land on one of them lands on marcus's gun the fucking look at his face trying to just bring up the courage to shoot her yeah it's like i'm the cool corrupt man i can do it i can do it i can be the corrupt cool guy but yes all of these are explosives boom boom boom boom boom boom boom boom boom boom boom boom boom boom boom boom and i already i'm gonna say that i i would say we were great i was very distracted with the the sights on his gun um i've got them up rags commentary go uh you have the you have a front post which is what your eyes will be focused on because of you have depth of field your eyes can really only focus on one sort of layer of thing at once so when you're shooting a gun you have your front post at the tip of the gun and you have the the notches essentially in the back of different configurations but you are focusing on your front sight and you have your rear sights are a little bit blurry and you'll have your target kind of be a little blur it's it doesn't matter it's just one of those like uh why'd they do it that way though is it why did they do it that way back sights are in the front front sights are in the back maybe it's maybe it's symbolic where it's like oh but is he like in a way aiming at himself with his decisions is he bringing about his oh my god it's it's incredible really um yeah we'll get to aiming with the wrong eye uh it depends on which dominant eye you have you're not necessary people aren't necessarily left eye dominant left eye dominant it's it's generally going to be the case but uh plus you don't really have to aim at that distance well also he's um definitely not he's got a bit of a mental he's not even right out he doesn't he doesn't really need to do much aiming she's about a foot away um yeah you don't have to aim at that distance he just point but now all he's doing is that leads us into a criticism that explosion takes off his whole arm meanwhile Caitlyn has a scratch on her leg um a lot of people highlighted this is uh one of the biggest pieces of plot armor so what we have is references we did this before everybody you saw us do it in episode four yeah it was four right where we went super super death so i love that frame uh what do we got to work with here it's like well we know that they do explosions that are like i said if the best we can do is say from the tip of his gun to his shoulder that's the range that's lethal and then outside of that is damaging i would assume trying to get as as autistic as possible here is it's uh to make sure because i think some people feel i'm not dotting my dotting my t's and crossing my eyes yeah uh so that goes off with the gun about a foot away from here which means her head should have been blown off correct it's like well yes if we believe she did not move um we don't see a move but is it possible she did i guess but i don't know it's like what what reaction she really is we have for moving away right i know because how he didn't even really know what that was and of course the face wasn't really facing her so she might not have even seen the face to know when to move away so what i'm so my first goal here is to define are we dealing with a plot hole or contrivance uh i would say contrivance i think because the fact they don't show us what she's doing when this happens then it's on us to be a particular level faith as well we can say i don't i don't know i don't think that she'd have any reason to move so she didn't move so she'll be dead or i guess because of the fact that she survived it means she must have moved everyone scattered and there were explosions going off everywhere so it's hard to like make heads or tails of this but she does end up like positioned differently relative to markers do you mean once we see her again yeah once we see her again in the aftermath um yeah so that's is that because of the force of an explosion or well so this is the thing it's kind of hard to say like if they showed that she hadn't moved at all when the explosion goes off i'd be like it's a hole it's armor the fact they don't show it means that it was like there was there anything she could have done and it's like well yeah move backwards and it's like okay but would she it's like i don't know i don't know that there's much reason for her to do so when she doesn't know what these things are would she have and could she have could she have yes would she have i mean to any i and so there was explosions everywhere and out of all the people who died she didn't i'm not the only person who survived yeah there's like one guy who sort of survives but you know we'll get to that but again it's just showing that kaitlyn had specced into blast resistance that's really all there is because someone would she to avoid being killed yeah she doesn't know what these things are so don't use that excuse yeah just like a split split seconds like oh this is starting to glow and maybe she could have like i don't know hunched over or just threw herself on the ground but i don't know how helpful that is in that little amount of time they start exploding bro they start exploding so she the first one that blows off is the fucking one in her face what is she gonna react to that explosion would have worn her that that was dangerous unless she has jinx reaction speed time then i i don't know even then she'd be then the fire will wake us so i'm willing to concede 100 this is plot armor i just don't know the degree to which it is uh it's a little bit i think it's a lot of plot armor yeah she's already survived one explosion and then she just survives another one this one is yeah this one is probably the biggest in the show as far as i know um well we'll see we'll go forward but um is that is that sell does anyone else anything definitely just survived another explosion and i think the solution for that is literally just one shot of her going and then she ducks and then i'd be like i guess she lucked out in that there was no flies close enough at that point i yeah have the have a make a ticking sound that she hears that's it yeah um something yeah something something like a ticking sound or a visible have um her associate them with jinx in a way that other people won't be able to quickly enough well uh one of them has the the colors like the crayon shit on it i think that would be enough for her to go oh as long as we set up that she knows that but as the said look at the look of these positions when we come back to him he's been blown back in his arms off she's like over there it's just like okay not quite sure how that's happening wait that's actually there's no look at it this actually makes it worse because she's closer to him now is what i mean i don't really get how this ended up yeah how did you get though yeah i don't know i would have had her probably take a bit more damage in the scene as well yeah because she does end up with some shrapnel in her leg but i think we need a little bit more than that to sell the she you know this was a brush with death yeah because it wasn't shrapnel that took off his arm i don't think it would have had to have been like just explosive force or something and then explosive force is generally going to be directed and just out it's it's a very um flimpy sort of there's a couple of things you can tweak to help fix this but yeah as it stands big plot armor uh Caitlyn is still alive everyone uh jinx is on the way uh via guest to Caitlyn first obviously she was ahead but uh bad news right now even between she held on the bridge right which uh i still don't intend to go back to until we've really finished the show um but i think that as well the but yeah she's humming what she was singing when she was a kid the same place the same time and i mean the events this time being she executes an enforcer as she's doing that and she's feeling okay about it oh yeah you just you gotta keep in mind and remember her parents were executed by enforcers so it's like this is something that's going on with her alongside everything else she's not the victim in this scene anymore i mean to fully explain jinx this is like it would take a while she's a very layered character there's so much shit going on with her um yeah yeah here comes a conversation we hear marcus say uh tell my daughter and then he's just dead yep like both impotent to the end wow what a boring character right guys right right right that's the perfect way to finish him off probably is that he's not likeable they are making reference to a video you will see if i've covered the future anyway uh the but you know i like to do this whenever we have a character story end but like yeah that was marcus um what can you say about this in totality it's that he's a he's a man that probably represents more people than any other character in this fucking show to be honest with you just constantly dealing with lots of choices to have to make lots of prejudices and sort of defensiveness that's built up from just life itself and then getting into situations you really just don't know how to deal with um yeah and all throughout he just shows like so much weakness like he he really does seem like he dealt with all of his problems in just the weakest way possible and it got him to this point so he is not a strong one to provide some representation to a particular perspective a lot of people have he was a piece of shit who ruined the life of many people through the decisions he made it's true yes uh we simply understand a lot of the decisions he made were really hard for him to make and he really wanted to be a better person he just yeah he wasn't just um he wasn't just a selfish asshole dick who was doing it you know it there was this more than that you really like him no he was on the cartoon he was an actual villain characters that you don't see much is characters that try and fail to be better yeah like really desperately wish they were a better person but they just they don't have it in them with the situation choosing all the wrong answers because he wanted to stop fully like he put like his badge down probably even what wanted to retire or resign his post but then well so he was in there with his daughter like oh fuck yeah he's in too deep with so many different areas and i think he wanted to be gracing um yeah exactly he wanted to be gracing racing requires a lot of spine she was a very strong character in that regard and it's something that he would always aspire to but couldn't achieve marcus is a is a very real person he wants to be good but that's really hard it's very hard at several stages being good means his daughter dies well like being good means significant loss uh personally and it was just more often than not the choice that he went with was like compromise principles compromise um yeah compromise yourself essentially uh to continue existing and having a life that you've built the life has been built on a shaky ground and not one single time did he feel good about it no he never felt good about it he's very believable as a character and yeah he died and he died before his story was over because yeah people died before their story is over he doesn't get to have like um closure because he dies without getting to finish because his his fucking story in the show is all about all of the things that he didn't do that's what he's constantly concerned with there's all the stuff that he didn't do and he doesn't even get to finish his last words to his daughter like yep um because and this is interesting when you think about that video that we watched about fridging and stuff like that of like unceremonious deaths this is a very unceremonious death um people die unceremoniously remember the most yeah mark this is one of them you also saw good people getting killed having a spine didn't save them i can understand his choice that's kind of the idea that a lot of people will die because they have a spine but that doesn't discourage them from having a spine this conviction mark is having a spine and he died anyway and look at him there when he's one of them like it's all meaningless if you just go with the flow and try to just succeed at the cost of anybody and everyone you could tell his big moment for regret was Grayson's death his decisions for doing what he thought was gonna work out real well for him cost him the life of his mentor i think that looms over him constantly yeah because if you had a way out in that moment if he had a way out he would be out but no he's in with silco now he's stuck here well there there is a way out it's just gonna cost him a ton i guess no clean way out is what i know exactly um and so because of that he just keeps going along with it yeah um yeah just a string of bad choices put him in a in a bad spot because i imagine it only got worse for him because there will have been a window of time where he can leave and like what happens is he's disgraced or you know otherwise yeah like it's not gonna cost his life or his family or it's yeah then he has a family and now he has a family to lose and now he has a job to lose and now he has even more station to lose and silco's more powerful and can access him more consequences broadly on the world as well now marcus was a pretty interesting character he is and it's good to get a marcus character completely you almost forget i exist you almost forget they exist even though i think he's much more common than the rest of them are in terms of real life people yes in terms yeah he's a very he's a very real person that's the reason why greyson is like so exemplary it's because it's like to be a person like that takes a lot of work um you're not you're not born that way i don't think yeah it's uh you gotta earn it um also madden the owl is the one that made this uh little avatar that i'm using right now it's supposed to be inspired by some of the stuff that jinx is going through an arcane in general uh mel you've got one as well right it was like a vandal variant or something mm-hmm yeah yeah okay that makes sense to me i didn't think about it that way look at him trying to sneak off without no don't say that metal we're gonna get banned what the fuck um okay say those things on your own channel metal oh my goodness yeah so uh getting real close now yeah i think some of them could stay alive via um by gets to katlyn and oh yeah they have this like i generally get like i can terminate a vibe with the shot they have here by jinx just getting closer and closer it's just like what are you it's like the music that plays as well it's just like she just represents death at this point um yeah by gets to katlyn and picks her up while jinx finds the uh the gemstone container and she sees them together which with everything else so it's pretty much enough to convince her that yeah so what you told me was all shit got everybody else telling her that this is the case on her team and then she sees this and she's got her brain doing this shit oh no look at her she's sloughing at you i'm taking vye away again oh hey mel wow still in my bag wow uh yeah and so she goes to shoot them uh vye pushes katlyn forward and herself back to dodge the the shots coming in through the center and then nice and slowed down echo comes out of the mist yeah fucking that's a little tiny a little tiny bit of his fucking scene music playing when he shows up he knocks the gatling gun out of her hand on the first strike and in the second strike he gets the uh the the gemstone container off here yep and passes it to them and tells them to go because the reality of this situation is that he is going to fight jinx and they've got to get out of here because i mean he probably is aware there's a chance he won't win this yeah uh before we get into the scene uh the the i've seen people complain that it's out of character for vye to leave here no it's not you know so gotta consider all the variables katlyn now needs medical attention um jinx is losing her fucking mind the point where she's just fired a gun at them and uh vye needs to get this gemstone to pilt over to prevent a war from breaking out and echo is saying to go so you've got a lot to consider um and you can tell that vye doesn't want to leave but she's got a responsibility right now yep just there are a lot of lives at stake of her her leaving right now and thus begins the best scene in the show so um i don't know i feel like i like i said i talk a lot so uh i i feel like passing it over to thea right i'm gonna do it i'm gonna pass it over to you little mid oh shit do you want me to frame my frame no do whatever you want explain it however you want we're going to talk about this for a good 20 minutes no pressure okay this scene uh i don't know if i mentioned yet but yeah uh echo a favorite character of mine from the video game uh we've noted that the uh the stopwatch thing he has is in fact like that's a reference of sorts but we can get into that more later on and uh the stylized thing they do here as like the fight begins is a really strong way of accomplishing a lot of things at once by representing that you know fanservice to the people who understand what's going on from the game perspective and also of implying more of the history that echo and jinx had together uh back when they were really young because yeah it just shows them you know playing a game like they would have when they were kids something like this because powder was a good shot so she would be she'd be doing things like this he has to try and learn how to shoot from doing games like this yeah yeah uh he has to reach her before she lands a paintball on him and then of course constantly like intercutting between that and the present uh it's a really effective way of showing contrast even under the lens of the music which is uh how do i describe it like it's very fun i guess kanya west power sure it's it's very fun the music is having so many doesn't sound like kanya west power sorry i just i don't know the song so i can't um what else to say like how far forward am i good to go because the thing i'm most interested in talking about is the contrast you're welcome to go not okay cool i'm going to do this one at the end i'm going to have a speech the last like fucking 10 minutes or some shit because there's a lot i have to say so i'm letting other people do it too the the most fantastic thing in the scene for me uh from like a writing perspective is the contrast i mentioned because the musical section is really fun it's having a lot of fun and it's indulging in the fact that this is champion combat and we haven't got champion combat anywhere in the show before both of these characters are in the game they look roughly like they do in the game one of them is missing a piece of their equipment from the game but that doesn't really matter uh and yeah they're making a big thing out of it while also showing you flashes of their past to you know allude to that side of things while also uh doing it in a really really visually interesting way with the music going and everything to make it a really cool audio visual experience and then they bring it back when kid echo throws his stopwatch to the ground and it breaks and we rewind back which is alluding to the time travel thing he has going on later on in the game which is that's a really cool way of doing that and i'm glad that they did and the actual fight as things proceed in the show as opposed to in like flashback dreamland is like it's not pleasant it's not it's no they're not having fun with it anymore it is it is a somber quick brutal violent experience where it's very faithfully portrayed as things should be if he gets to her before she can land a shot on him like just look at the difference in their bill he's got a weapon if the fight's over and it is very brutal when he does well there's a reality of if she hits him he's going to die from blood loss and if he gets to her he's going to have to beat her to death yeah exactly he's going to have to beat her to death like that's fucked up considering especially as we've just been shown these were childhood friends and another cool interpretation i just remembered for the uh for the stylized section with the music going is uh well that's what's going on in echo's mind of course because he initiates this by uh starting to swing the stopwatch which i think is to remind jinx because she seems to pick up on that and yeah nods along and gets into stands and everything so he's remembering how things went all those times in the context of trying to plan his moves now like how do i reach this person before i get shot because it's not a splatter of paint this time it's i'm going to die which is it's it's worth starting up as well that she opens with the boy savior referencing his sanctuary and his efforts to try and uh undo what silk has done which obviously those two have been like at each other's throats now for years potentially we don't have the context on that exactly but she sees him as a pitiful attempt to try and improve the like zone and he sees her as just this fucking psychopath that's killed several of his friends and like when she says that to insult him he gets like annoyed but then he's just like this reality that we're in we're about to do the thing we used to do as kids because he's probably thinking about them as kids all the time um and so laughs and i think that uh it can be confusing for people when they first see this scene why the fuck are they smiling and laughing what does what does this have to do with anything and um even she's confused for a second and then she realizes um and she laughs too because yeah what an insane absurd position to be in we're about to play that kids game we used to play with but one of us this time is going to die it's the grim absurdity of it look how far we've come look how different we are even just when they're like about to do it like they are ready to go through with it i don't think it's really fully here because again by the time by the time he has one like he's hair over the head he's stronger he's able to beat her into the ground not quite effort effortlessly it's still like really scuffed and unpleasant on the eyes but he is not ready to go all the way through with it when there's someone who looks like terrified and bloody like underneath him yeah and uh lots of feels from this but specifically the uh the transition from the clock moving back and forth and then she turns into the younger vision of herself um it's like if you're not even seeing this coming at all you're just like oh man because of those first three episodes setting your right up for all this stuff to pay off that much better it's like yeah remember she's powder the mention i always made of the show being willing to indulge in fan service but then always bringing it back to something narratively and totally appropriate this is the scene as well as a later one uh next episode that's always on my mind because they do indulge in the fan service they do give you a bit of of a champion battle and they stylize it and they really play it up as this big event then they bring it back to like the actual reality of the show and they're very aware of what this actually means to everyone involved and that it is not some big spectacular event this sucks it's impressive that the scene can be this fucking good and we you don't even have to include how well it references the game like there's so many people who will watch this enjoy it and understand exactly why it's so meaningful but then people who've played the game are like how did you just incorporate as Echo's fucking ultimate without even mechanically have it work the same way as his actual ultimate you simply referenced it in an incredibly meaningful story telling way what an excellent job specifically what i'm referring to is the fact that as Theo's already brought up he rewinds but he doesn't actually he's just remembering how their games have gone before before starting it up yeah but they frame it like it's a rewind i wonder why they might be doing that it's really fucking cool um but yeah the soundtrack is cut and it's just the raw effects and sounds of the punching and the hitting and it's pretty aggressive for a little bit but then i think they both realize what's happening here that is pretty horrible brief moment there when he just yeah he sees clearly again because he's won and well there's powder and her nose is with her gray eyes like she had that's powder and it's just it's just the worst um i was thoroughly impressed by the scene when i first saw it never thought this was coming yeah it was good shit it's good shit and uh again just with expressions you can tell we might we like expressions over here because there's just so much to talk about what do these expressions mean for instance uh after a little bit of staring she like smiles at him and then releases the grenade what do you think that means probably like appreciating the fact that he actually stopped punching her because she knows that there's still something there for both of them but that the reality is we're on opposite fucking sides here comes the grenade so a small thing of like congrats you win dude yeah you really have grown you've come so far you've become the league of legends she pulls the pin on that grenade uh just with how her mind is and has been recently i think she was okay with the idea of dying now yes and it's probably time for us to talk about that um it's a big explosion when they zoom out uh everyone this is usually the first example i see reference from everybody for plot armor it's the shouldn't both of them be dead um should we get to that now or should we get to it once we find out the fate of both of them feel like it's only after the eights all right maybe uh come back to it when we yeah yeah that makes sense find out what happened to them yep i want to i want to point out as well the rags you were pretty convinced that this meant they were both dead right oh yeah i would at the end of this episode i was convinced that they were both dead yes i think you even said yeah i was convinced i was yeah you said that you were surprised because you would thought there's more story to end with vion jinx but that that's that's a death scene right now i'm like yeah but this show is ready and this show will do that so they're dead i was i was convinced i was like i there wasn't a shadow of a doubt in my mind that they that that they were that were they weren't dead i was convinced of it completely 100 percent i was shocked when i i think uh well wait once i chat is rolling out all the defenses we're not doing that yet gotta wait we'll get there all right we we've got we've got the very same comments to make we'll get there it was not you know has this episode stands we'd simply be speculating on the fact that they've died we wouldn't have anything else on uh on what rag said my thought was echo is definitely not dead we just introduced him and we're definitely but i i think i was like jinx hmm would they really i think there was that thought in my mind but the fact that i was there like hmm would they that's almost like a testament to the show because of it were a lot of other things would be like nah that's just fine she'll be fine especially since they can make you think that way when these are like champions from the exactly exactly there'll be another really strong example of that later on episode nine uh i felt like uh there's too much narrative to do between vi and jinx to kill her i was pretty sure she wasn't gonna die yeah yeah um but that is episode no when i say when we just introduced him it's like we see echo back again full force like as a you know active in the story well dude i happened to follow the school of theo on this one that we're not allowed to kill echo until he at least actually uses his ultimate from the game thus i feel that they're not gonna kill him until that happens oh i didn't know anything about the game so none of that even no of course an aspect of my mind i would be super upset if they had did because the way they use his time travel is very interesting because it's really grounded and they're willing to indulge in the consequences of it yes like i've mentioned before there's a short story for echo that came out around the time of his release of him trying to save one of his friends who got shot by a pilty um and he tries i think somewhere in the vicinity of 80 times 80 separate rewinds but he cannot reach the kid but to in an amount of time that lets him help them before they bleed out so and like that's that's the premise of the comic him just trying over and over and over again but no matter how much time he has it's just not enough and that sounds like an arcane story already doesn't it yep so anyway that'd be we're on to episode eight can you believe it two episodes done in three hours and 40 minutes we're not and it's not the worst you know i'm right um so uh we've got mel as a kid in flashback mode and she says uh she learned from like a source i can't remember what the source is but the war is a failure of statecraft just an interesting quote to add to what we know about mel um and then in mum is there trying to teach us like uh that a lot of people you you're either a fox or a wolf in the year approach with um i guess everything in life and i assume the difference being shrewd and smart versus aggressive and domineering sort of thing and she says you must learn to be both uh which again these scenes just like with everything we know about these characters whenever they get these scenes you're like oh that doesn't form everything that they're all about uh um and yeah she she's already excited to talk about how they're going to be manipulating the new monarch she's like will make her like agreeable but still something that you know people take orders from whatever and that we will be able to blah blah blah and then um in mum is like maybe you could be it and she's like oh shit just uh she's this young and she's already thinking about like political manipulation it's just interesting to think about um but there's a girl who's been captured and in mum asks her what they should do with her and she says uh stripper of all of her like possessions and just send her away and then mum says that if you do that she'll come back one day or like eventually amassing a lot of people for like some form of vengeance um it was better to kill her and for a moment there mel thinks that's not going to be the case until mum pulls out what i actually thought was kind of like uh talon's weapons from the game uh i was wondering is talon noxus do you see someone else uh yeah he's yeah he's noxus he's associated with the dakutu family she chops her fucking head off and says a wolf has no mercy which is interesting yeah it's with the head they do that with uh echo's first reintroduction in episode four as he's falling with the uh the boards i think as well i don't know uh this may be i guess i don't want this to be controversial but mel's mum has a very good point here if we look from a perspective of history uh when the symbol of the old regime exists your problems are never over as a revolutionary or a conquering force so long as what's that there's a there's a surviving air there is a surviving uh you know a royal member the bloodline still exists there you know that's that's that's not good for you if you've usurped them it would seem that six different factions who are royalists have like rallied around them okay cool we beat we beat them back okay they have kid who survived and then you know more factions later down the line have rallied around them and it never stops so long as the old regime exists leave one wolf and the sheep and the bellion in a way that's what you're saying apparently it's a quote well um but yeah just they never they never take a chance not to have a pretty neat shot like this one mel has an opinion on violence that is a very silly which is one that would not be particularly well received and noxious of all places yeah it's not every noxian is like a big punch person who you know the war every all the time it's great uh but noxious is about strength and if you don't have the strength to do well get you like the best result then that's cringe yes but yeah we see the the necklaces and the pool of blood and then it flashes too she's painted it she's having a nightmare when she wakes up so a lot of this weighs on her mind much like a lot of the scenes we end up seeing that are core to these characters they define a lot about how they end up going forward in life which is kind of just how humans work yeah it looks fantastic let me get a shot of that again that's really good trying to get it this is probably like a big uh big key piece of information for telling us a lot about mel we could already glean plenty of it so far but they're just getting the uh that uh that piece of information it's like who interesting this is an important episode for mel mel sneaks up on you uh in the show she goes from being what yeah like a pretty thin secondary character to like oh she's like a full-on character okay i understand yeah i'm just to just see what happens with mel yes whatever it may be whatever it may be um so silco arrives at the bridge and he finds the body of jinx and it's not looking good like there's splats of blood and loads of like i guess dirt and stuff and she's just unconscious so um i guess we'll wait a little longer before we talk about it just a little longer but there's a particular scene you all know i'm waiting for uh and yeah um katelyn is getting taken to a house by vi silco grabs jinx and takes her somewhere so uh jace arrives at the bridge in the morning sees all of the bodies and i just i remember seeing this and being like oh shit this is gonna uh oh he's gonna hammer time hammer time hammer time but yeah like you know less jokely what do you think his reaction is going to be to all of these enforcing corpses it's just like yeah he gets to the bridge yeah it's like blood everywhere it's something i'm glad they actually had him do because that's that's what a human does when they see that's a he does a big old vomito uh maroonies nice that you stopped there while i was puking i realized there's no real reason to do that but uh he does he does spot these on the floor um which it just matches the uh the grenades coloring them butterflies going on quite a journey those butterflies aren't they also that's um in a sense it might be evidence to him of the um the like perversion of piled over tech because they're small but like that's what did it and they were the little butterflies from progress day the worst where we first saw them yeah yep um and yeah mel is not looking happy about this and with everything we know about her at this point it's hard to be sure of exactly what she's thinking and part of it i think is that yes pro making weapons to make piled over stronger and bigger but also look what it's already done this is what weapons do yeah a bit much to think about hmm anyway we're over at katelyn's house now vise delivered here successfully um i really like the katelyn's mum burst the door open and aims a gun right at her it's great stand your ground stand your ground intruder bum bum bum bum um um but yeah uh katelyn goes to speak to her well via waits because they're gonna see about what happens next yeah i don't know yet look for real though just her using a gun just implies to me that's probably it would have been a commonality for that house that the women knows how to fucking use guns and that's why katelyn's probably not only into it but combine that with gracing just a pathway that seems perfectly reasonable for any girl growing up in a household like that um yeah and yeah they um she actually manages to convince her parents to have vi and katelyn listened to on the council because her mum is a council member so we shall see about that yay um next up singed is pulling something out of his face pretty weird gross and i have no idea what it's a what is what is happening there uh it looks like a bit of cloth or something but i think it's uh i think it's just he's just really is refreshing his bandages or renewing his bandages it could be as simple as a bandage on his face that's you know healed into his wound but uh yeah not sure exactly whatever it is it's not pleasant no no he has a bit of a tortured existence um but yeah silco bursts in the room and he's like fucking help jinx is pretty much dead do something and uh i think one of the first things singed says is i must know are you prepared to lose her which is a really great line because silco says she won't die doctor she can't which is another way of saying no i'm not prepared for yeah exactly yeah and so uh he says i understand the possibility and then injects him like i love the fact that it's not none of it's explicit it's all subtext like a different conversation is happening so it's like uh so if you're not prepared to watch her fucking suffer and die i can't do this and you just said you're not so i'm gonna knock you out okay i'll i'll just get to work for all right just take a nap right this isn't gonna be fun to watch and as he's fading into uh being unconscious he hears sinx say i too once had a daughter yeah oh just huh you did interesting very interesting i want to talk more about that at the like after the end well we're genuinely getting close what an adventure this has been yeah we're almost to the scene we're almost to the scene i i want us to see where echo is and i want us to get to that that moment with jinks then we will have all of our tools um yeah what you can see here is that uh savika's previous arm is on the table and she's tinkering away at a new one um and so like this is just a blatant confirmation that she's the one that actually builds and maintains these arms then i assume um it makes sense it's uh yeah at least maintains yeah not not necessarily like in vents but i don't know who they would argue is the inventor it could be jinx i guess um but i just i think at this point we could assume it's here that was my assumption that jinx made it i think i assume that this is a thing that exists in the world maybe that you can get these things in the world if if you find a skilled enough person man is there is there another jargai right here body mods and it's done really well no that wasn't council scenes was that uh you know body modification and implants like this is something the under cities good at yes we've seen how ingenuity we are and we've seen a couple of examples of them as well including but not limited to finn's jaw as he arrives in this scene and uh i could never tell if that was a body mod or if it was just like tech like jewelry that he's sort of yeah caught on it seems like yeah it kind of does seem like vanity piece it could be a i think it's i think it's both a little column a little column yeah yeah i think he does need a job but you know if you've got money you want to look snazzy and nice yeah yep like because you ain't hiding it so you want to just be like yeah that's right it's freaking amazing and it's ornate and it's golden brass and imagine the conversation you need to have with the person who's given it to you i need a replacement jaw said with no jaw you're right down what he was do is he's done a lot of jaws so he knows exactly he speaks he speaks one jaw he speaks upper jaw he speaks jawless yeah it's a jawless place this world um so is this species is he a jaw he could write it down no he doesn't he's got he doesn't write it down he you know he didn't write it down he forgot to all right and he can't ask for a pen because you know can't really ask for anything don't worry reg no he could be like he could that's not true he could be like the arm in cloverfield paradox oh god we watched that movie yeah that's right that's what you didn't expect one of those references today that was recorded right was it not did we watch that without we're not doing any fat movies or do we just casually watch it i can't remember anymore so long ago i don't want to remember anyway the uh i like this seen a whole bunch because it runs exactly as you'd expect it to in a reasonable way she's tinkering with her arm he walks up and she detects almost immediately through just a couple of lines he has he's like you're trying to convince me to fucking betray silco i'm not stupid this is you this is your play and then he's just like well yeah silco is treating you like shit you're you do basically everything in this operation like what like what is the reason for you to remain loyal to silco why and then i think he just kind of walks off and she's just like because tell me why she accepts the offered light of her cigar thing which uh yeah you know i'm listening definitely that vibe yeah because it's it's the thing for so because she's silco is kind of a twat to her um yeah she's not been having a great time lately uh and the fact is like she felt the same way about vanda that vanda was making the wrong decisions that's why she fucking betrayed him and at this point she's like why don't you just lead or done for someone who's a better leader and at this point fin is basically suggesting himself they do show off so because new sword thing they do it will be relevant soon enough very much uh day of sex human revolution kind of thing isn't it but the difference is she did ask for this yeah she did ask for this she did this yeah um you know all right actually it's total tangent let's press on so uh mel's mum arrives and this is like the first biggest sort of noxus is a thing and this is someone that's arrived from nox it feels much more uh like the world is expanding a little bit more than simply named references this is a person from there and she's got things to talk about uh as i think when i was watching this for free i was just like noxus is just bad news so like i'm not sure what's going to be happening but it ain't going to be good and um yeah i imagine they're going to be they're going to be a way bigger role as this show goes on uh i would assume so i can imagine that's gonna be the case uh and she actually tells mel your brother's gone he crossed the wrong man and i was distracted a mistake i can't take back which is like just for i was just gonna say that's that's like the implications of what there's probably a whole incredibly complicated beautiful story that's happened in noxus already that they're probably considering showing us at this point in episodes of arcane i'd imagine i might be i mean that could be might be relevant what if that was the first three episodes of series two was actually noxus fact story might be relevant to a character we might see but who fucking knows it's all fan speculation based on the presence of birds so you know hey once they understand who slain is they would think that's significant too just for a quick clarification i think that is the symbol of house madada rather than noxious as a whole noxious is probably true i i just associated a noxious symbol yeah just because noxious has a fairly prolific landed aristocracy uh so they have all sorts of noble houses like this um yeah and she she has pleasantries for like five seconds and then she starts saying like your jace has turned his eye to weaponry and your under city has fested and i don't even think there's a matter of like discussing that she's just like you fucker you want my you want weapons don't you like you just want it for for noxious and she says it's a fact weapons cannot be unmade they will be used and i'm going to guide you to the right decision that's what she says which is pretty blatant another nice detail of the expressions i fortunately don't have a timestamp noted down but when she when she hears about her brother being dead you can see like a lower lip quiver it's like oh that's nice little detail yeah like a little bit of quivering yeah mel quiver no shut up yeah i don't have a timestamp i wouldn't need to look at such a whatever remember that being a thing mel mel's mom is a fetish okay okay so anyway uh then we see katelyn and vye having a little chat and uh vye explains that there was a game her and powder used to play when they were younger where they would just keep trying to create monsters to counter the monsters that they were coming up with but sometimes vye would get carried away and create something a bit too scary and so to avoid her crying she would pretend to chase it away and then she says a real monster turned up and i ran away i left her um and of course it fucking frustrates the hell out of me that some people actually point out it's like well no you were taken by marcus idiot remember the events probably it's like that moment of leaving powder that's what cost all of it even if it lasted five seconds that's the major mistake that's how the biggest ramifications you could possibly imagine and uh vye will feel guilty for it for the rest of fucking life i'd imagine but the why it's such great drama is i don't think anybody watches that scene and says wow vye's evil for doing that it's like no she's under a bit of pressure it's just a little bit um yeah just just staring into katelyn's eyes on the bed while discussing all the things to make them who they are just um it's a little little moment of peace like oh a little moment of gay that is shut up jay this is the first like quiet moment they've had a chance to have where one of them hasn't just been stabbed so you know even holding hands there's lots of stuff happening anyway we get a different scene following that very peaceful and calm one and they do it very fucking deliberately vye is kind of doing okay and then boom um yeah so this scene is probably the most disturbing in the entire show uh oh yeah basically jinx is tied down and screaming constantly as different things are injected into her and all she gets told from her mind's perception of the fucking torturous katelyn slash singe telling her it's not gonna get better i'm afraid it will only get yeah it's like oh great thank you cinched and uh all she's seeing while this is happening is her understanding that she is getting wiped out in favor of katelyn and that her chances to get to be with vye again are gone um this is really bad for her psyche to put it lightly you imagine this might be a bit traumatic uh a little bit she's had enough of that already she's a wee bit uh and it's just all pretty pretty terrifying for her too because i don't even think she knows i don't know if she knows who's like what's happening really uh she'd probably only just regain consciousness this is the yeah uh and i would play it but i don't think i need to uh his screams quite um yeah quite a thing uh the actress is doing great but look at some of these stills uh so this is gonna be what a lot of people want to bring up when we finally get to the topic we're almost there because we still haven't seen echo yet um this was not peaceful no no so um yeah that gets the point across pretty well anyway moving right along the hammer dinger i think is next well silco wakes back up oh right and um i think he goes to he puts a knife to cinched i don't remember if they say anything significant though nobody else does i think it's just a matter of silco it's like what you do and cinches like i did it the thing well done i saved her life um but yes heimatinger is making his way through the undercity uh basically just he's shocked at every turn like this is he never knew about all this he never really went and checked he is it's like learning all of this and really knowing it for the first time and yeah which is unique to him but it's like simultaneously so sad in that he's just realizing how much there's so many people to help um and the things were never as good as he thought they were and even sees a little kid doing some scavenging and he's like whoa what are you up to and uh i don't know if he i think he like has a spinning top or something and he's like trying to do like a magic trick of i don't know what about either way he gives it to her it's all really chill and then his mom is like get the fuck away from him yeah they're a little freak and i love how the kid like after she's being pulled away or by mom she's like okay bye yeah important little moment just i wanted to be friends but oh well the homeless person sort of lunges out towards him begging for something and you can see the look in his eyes the reality is i don't have anything to offer this person yeah which i think makes him think about his time as uh you know head of the council as well yeah yeah um so this this and what i really adore about this is that that means what jay said wasn't just a show to get him fired at this point in terms of the meaning to the story it actually sat with him and so he went to inspect and now he's realizing it was all true and that maybe there is some validity to the fact that he's just not a good enough leader at this point if this is the fate for zorn um yeah very fucking depressed ends up uh oh a little guy yeah he's not a lot this is a big day and he gets his boat ready to go back over to pilt over his head um but he spots echo who's below the bridge and he picks up his little little board i think he says like the way these blades are cut isn't as efficient as they could be and he says they're designed for the air and the uh the fissures but actually they are you dick criticizing when you don't even know you didn't say that you did you might have a broken version or uh yeah he definitely probably got the censored cut yeah oh in my cut he called heimerdinger the n word i think that yeah that's in my cut too we have the adult cut i think for you might have the children's one heimer yeah so uh i really like the line where um heimerdinger's like i was trying to offer my assistance but apparently i'm not welcome and the neck of says oh we're having the same day both did it in reverse for the other side just the inverse yeah both like tried to extend a hand across that bridge allegorically speaking and had it slapped away yeah but they both hmm but if they're both offering that hand up to help each to help out the other side and these two want to do that hmm they have a great interaction i really like this interaction i'm very happy i know it's a really cool combo what what can uh because of course the obvious thing what can heimerdinger teach echo with all of his experience but also what are the things that echo has learned in his life uh in the undercity uh scrapping and just trying to get by what can he teach heimerdinger they both have something to offer each other uh in terms of learning more about uh the other society the technology it's uh it's it's a really it's like amidst the sea of pretty uh depressing and grim things happening this is a very nice wholesome little exchange yeah and he echo even knows him actually refers to anything that's kind of slide heimerdinger and he's like not anymore and he's kind of him straight away yeah it's just heimerdinger now it's kind of nice to see echo like not so standoffish all the time he's like oh you're kind of nice we like some yeah uh so that's probably enough for us to now talk about whether or not it was planned or at the end of uh episode seven so here i think it is safe to say that echo probably did something in the intervening time between the cut the wide cut in the explosion for as short as it was that saved his life we'll just do the same system as last time could and would could he move that grenade away from him and uh jinks within the time we saw i think the answer is yes and would he absolutely absolutely he would yes so now we have to believe he pushed it far away enough that he hurt his leg or at least he jumped off the bridge and he hurt his leg when he fell um and that she took a bit of the blast in a significant sort of sense well i don't think he jumped off the bridge because we would have seen that in the in the white card then i suppose you you could argue that yeah so i guess we'll rule that out his leg would must have been hurt by the explosion and same for her and so all we have to imagine is he uh hit the sound that he hit the thing away with his stick or his arm while moving himself away and that she was flat on the ground so she would have been closer yeah and she is obviously we can see that she is in a much worse thing uh not only do i think the then as a writer you get to decide whether or not jinx dies when you have that level of like the grenade is pushed away but they don't make it pleasant for her she's basically on death and she goes through one of the most nightmare procedures ever to use something that has been established to heal i think we are meant to believe that if not for this treatment she would have died yeah is all right i guess the only plot on would make sense should she have died quicker i was like i don't i don't know what that means you don't want to be like i don't know i'd have to say yeah a couple people have been citing that you hear the sound of him knocking it away i don't know that you can confirm that i think you can just say it's a sound it could have come from the grenade it could have come from him hitting it but the fact i feel like it's just more of an inference yeah i think it's reasonable to say that that is the sound of him hitting it away well yeah because because essentially what we're trying to do is so echo is alive so what would have happened that could explain that that's essentially the question that we're we have to ask we're trying to like interpreting good faith i like as well we still got half and half in chat being like that's it and then other people being like no they both died this is ridiculous it's like look at the size of the the uh the grenades like we've given you the best we can uh i suppose we just have to leave it to the to the chat at that point um i'm more i'm yeah the threshold of the suspension of your disbelief is not exactly a thing that is the same for everyone yeah and i'm i'm more convinced of them surviving this blast than i am of katelyn surviving yeah i i agree i think i agree yeah i'm kind of running down through it and explaining it yeah i can see we're not given as clear of a display of the power of these grenades as compared to say the firelight explosion thing because for those we saw the after effects marx is i think um ripped off there was blood and gore everywhere everyone practically everyone else died yes the the big part for the that one is there were a lot of explosions this was one um i i think i can believe more so that somebody might be able to survive one big explosion than they would to survive like a dozen smaller explosions because all you need to do is try to minimize one variable rather than avoid death from like a hundred different angles you know it helps that i know is being extremely fast he's very fast yeah that on top of the fact that jinx looked to be pretty much dead except he brings it back with a serum that i think we're gonna find out in season two can do even more than heal uh yeah well i mean we already found out in this uh and and this season does more than heal what are we referring to you've gone to island do you remember what oh and in the finale there's a thing that happened in the finale okay nearly yeah uh there's a thing that happens where seemingly leveraging what happened she's able to do some some crazy stuff oh no i'm not talking about that i'm talking about resurrections oh oh okay right okay we already know dude we've seen the that's the primary ability to give your abilities i said like so healing is another one and then i guess is poor waiting on my part i almost framed it as though healing's upgrade is resurrection but it's like not necessarily understanding is your fault yes yeah you misunderstood that's fine but uh no i i agree that the misunderstanding stems from your uh are we falling apart i'm just it's all right it's all right you know we'll get over fighting at least it's not about goo there is no fight here man that's just i think i thought we're all in agreement um but anyway let's continue yeah i think so i'm agree you okay with me continue and just make sure wow i said let's continue i just want to make sure it's better to get like you know you don't want to be safe and sorry as they say well i guess one thing that i guess i wanted to bring up really briefly as i there you go see i noticed that um it was only one grenade powder is always seen throwing at least three like all the time and i don't know if she's just doing that out of necessity or it's because she's just a fucking she's nuts so i mean she's not always seen throwing three she attaches one to several people in the show she she threw like several at the start she had she had attached several to the board passing by so i don't know like i just figure like one attaches one to the board passing by an episode i was going to say that's just one that's not three okay well i mean it was just it was just a passing thought really i mean just kind of seemed to me like she kept on using multiple grenades and on multiple occasions to the point where i'm thinking like the lethality is probably just a little questionable or if she just does it because it's fun i mean to throw several um yeah the only time i remember there being three was the first time we see her in episode four but from there it seems to be ones now where are we oh yes mel's mum's having a big old bath um i remember finding out apparently by the way that they removed the guy who's massaging her in certain visions of this i can't remember why i can't remember why this particular regions they they got rid of him um so she's just chilling in general i can't i'd like said i've not got enough maybe someone in chat has more info on that but uh i remember being like what the fuck and i saw the vision it's like yeah he's just gone it's like okay i don't know if he's offensive or something um he's offensive he's got the naked girl in the clothes guys like nap get rid of him he's good or she's she's plot significant you can't remember i'm sure they would have yeah i the whole lot of plot he's got a whole lot of plot they just they just remember but they still have her dialogue there well there's just like there's just like a pg of a shirt that's hovering over her the way to do it the chinese censors what was that one region that like censored spongebob by putting like a really bad j-pig dress of over sandy cheeks was that like turkey or something i don't know well because there was a censored version of spongebob well they they put this really shitty looking purple dress over sandy all the time because she's like wearing a bikini so i figured it's like if it's going to be any regions probably whoever did that so she tells jayce he's basically impotent and the council is going to be a problem and uh they're in a crisis and nobody's acting and she says i want you to succeed if you don't heed advice i fear you'll end up slaughtered with your eyes closed like uh okay so with everything else jace has got going on that's a fun addition hey you have problems and you're not dealing with them so you know you're gonna deal with them before they kill you and i think next scene is uh jace really thinking about this he's holding one of the uh little butterfly wings and i think he says uh we need to act before anyone else is killed and uh we know where his priorities are that's for sure something that's super neat about this is when he says that it seems almost a leap from mel and she looks at him frustrated at first and then again because she realizes her mom's gotten to him the best way to explain it um yeah so they just they have a big discussion because vine cater here as well and they're going to talk about what the plan is and they basically say like we should go in by force it's like that could trigger war uh mel tells jace that could trigger war you don't know it but i do it must be our last resort and uh vise silk is never gonna back down at least i think she said that and uh this they end up concluding they shouldn't uh go to war right i think in this scene they they are against it and vise frustrates that means that silk is not going to be stopped which takes us to uh vibe being all sad and katelyn being all sad because this plan didn't work and so vise got to go back to the lanes and katelyn's like well but but but but what about what about everything and she's like it's fucking didn't work out oil and water and she says but what about us yeah and um this is the thing i mean there's not much to say here other than i know a lot of people have actually complained about this being like well that came out of nowhere um i don't think so like it doesn't have to this reminds me of uh the conversation about spider man where it's like where did the relationship come from it's like there isn't really one yet it's just the beginnings of something something's going on that's all they um there's clearly a connection here there's a bit of a bit of tension a bit of a bit of a bit of a bit of touch and bit of a bit of back and forth lots of chemistry and clearly katelyn's just realized that like if vi leaves and she stays that's it for that there's nothing nothing more happens and so she says you know what about us and she's like oil and water it's not happening it was never gonna happen so that oh boy are we about to get we are about to but i just want to clarify like the people who complain that this came out of nowhere was like i'm sorry how much how much is there before a character can just be like hey we uh we got we got something i think are we a thing are we something what do we got what's going on here it's not like they're marrying each other it's just yeah there's just yeah it's the slippery slope smaller we literally get married first they meet and then oh yeah uh it seems fine to me but anyway we get a scene i mean if fringy you sounded excited you want to take yeah uh before we do it though i just saw a super chat going i want to read fringy i've noticed slightly these past few e-fabs that you seem to be taking things a bit seriously when jokes are made and you take it in a serious manner relax friggy you're among friends right are you okay friggy i'm a bit concerned to don't take this as condescension just concerned as all now i'm not sure if this is a meme but like if you're referring to the conversation that we just had about oh mohler no see the the onus is on you for poorly communicating you know that was a meme right or um i really think that's playing into the meme that's really funny if not that is really funny that's a really funny meme tell me that was a meme uh i was just gonna say it's a google google the emote capper and just picture that that is the face me and fringy had when saying everything that we said you just proved it right okay feb it's okay feb you missed that vi gave jace jinx's name um remind me what's what happens as a result of that they now know that jinx is the one behind things very well um anyway uh fringy go right ahead uh so we got we got our our boy victor oh yeah this is the thing where victor gets more training than ray but yeah yeah standing out there in the rain let's go of his crutch and just wants to start going for a bit of a walk at first it's it's a little bit tricky it's not used to it i the emphasis on that first foot step as well oh i love it yeah um it's a little bit hard for him to do that at first he's walking we see that little boat there in the background we pan out he's uh he's he's starting to move a little bit faster oh he's he's moving a bit faster he's right he trips but he's running he's going he's going look at him he's going and he's he's out running the boat he's out running the boat unlike before when he was a little youngster in the boat just escaped him he couldn't keep up with the boat now that is what we like to call symbolism uh out there by accident this is this is what is uh known as symbolism you know we've been talking about throughout the whole show how one of uh i guess the core parts of um victor's journey is the idea that we're progressing forward with technology and science and his body is failing him and he'll die he won't be able to he won't be able to keep up he's he's being left behind but now leveraging this technology um he's finally able to keep up not only keep up but he's starting to outrun the boat he's moving faster than the boat he's ahead of it um that's pretty awesome when you talk about symbolism and uh you know uh set up and pay off in terms of the initial set up with the boat in here now of course it's all deliberate because yeah it was all deliberate and then we see him go back to his lab he's motivated to continue experimenting with it now he's gotten and we are like fresh a lot better so yeah yeah there is there is hope now but hmm like what hope for what what do you what are you hopeful for specifically like oh this tech that we're going to be able to use this technology to improve lives and save people or specifically i can use it for myself and not only he's ran out of shimmer as well um he has ran out of shimmer yeah and the implication i think is that shimmer made the process uh let's go yeah yeah um but uh he is too determined to keep going with it it's too much uh to to turn away from now yes part of his body has been fully converted into something else now and uh this seems to be a goal of let's keep it going yeah obviously the problem for victor is i assume body wide it's not like a particular organ or a limb it's that's going to be the method in which he's going to possibly save himself unfortunately as he's planning to do this it's intercut with scenes of a girl coming to visit him someone who's given him some attention in these other episodes but we you know we just don't know anything about it really um cold sky and uh she happens to catch him during his experiment and uh i guess you know he'd look it to a to a casual observer it looks like he's almost getting sucked into the hex core so she decides to try and pull him out are you winning son yeah and uh it costs a big time yeah it's unclear exactly what's happened we have to wait until season two to really know what all of this means but uh she gets disintegrated and it seems the hex core changes as a result like it's consumed a person or something uh yeah it's pretty rough um and of course it's a hell of a lot for victor to deal with yeah she literally do you think do you think victor would have died if she wouldn't have come around like the core would have absorbed victor instead unclear i guess all we can say right yeah i was speculating i was thinking about this yeah it would seem to me the hex core has fused with victor and nothing else it's rejecting everything else so well because his blood got dropped in it at first that's the first sample that it got and now it's fused to victor and nothing else that's why the plants like died pretty much instantly when it's fused why she got disintegrated when they were anywhere close so it seems it's made a bond with him and nothing else from the looks of things and if we compare to when he did it with shimmer it seemed i don't know what i'm gonna call it a pleasant experience but the leg got converted this he put his hand on it and it converted his hand but not for a lack of incredible pain uh and so it's because he's screaming throughout the whole thing so i assume that's the cost without shimmer uh yeah like shimmer is all shimmer is almost like an anesthetic of sorts yeah i got that image right there she's like he's all dusty now um and i think that people probably want to recognize like is it not incredibly inconvenient for her and in a way for him just that she popped up at this exact moment and it's like well kind of yeah yeah yeah yeah it's not and i've seen the funny enough there's a second complaint that she was fridged and i'm like okay could anybody die is that even possible anymore like no what does it mean for a character to die but also mean nothing to anyone else because like people i've seen the threads where they're like she didn't even get a character is fucking ridiculous like yeah she's not a character she's a person who is interested in victor that's that's his pov of her so i don't think it's bad that we have that pov of her as well she's just a person in this world people don't people just accept this kind of thing happening with characters that they like and then they just um ignore it when it's something that they when it's something new to them they'll ignore it i think because like people no one makes this complaint about fucking uncle ben when it's literally his the purpose of his character is to die to the main character yeah yeah uncle fridged uncle fridged it was like oh batman's parents they never even got to have a character man disgusting so yeah i don't know um we did have a whole eef have about fridging but i still don't even feel like i fully understand exactly what people mean when they're complaining about it because i don't know how it doesn't apply to literally every character ever that ever died that anyone reacted to i remember when that that girl said you can't have characters die off screen that's disrespectful brilliant i do remember that i'm afraid which i wouldn't those were hard times yeah yeah we we catch up with old jc boy he's making something and vye gives him a visit being all like hey pussy do fight and then he's like we voted not to like hey that doesn't matter who fights it's kind of interesting by the way the the forging of um the hammer it's it seems his forge is actually powered by hex crystals as well like um obviously they want to imply that there's a lot of special shit that goes into making hex weapons uh that we use the hex crystals to create the hex crystals yes but you know that's kind of the shape of a hammer would you say it looks a little like it you're gonna give him a hammer i'm outside i'm outside hammer time um yeah well my lo and clag are fridged surely they were as well oh yeah that gets mentioned in the threads as well but they had more characters but still is the thing is it worse or better to have more character or less character when you are fridged i don't know yeah isn't the core of the trope that like if they have no character at all that's fridged in which case yeah the parents would be fridged by like any standard that people i think it's like this i think it's like this mid zone where it's like they get introduced and you meet them but it's just so they can die later yeah like they get an inordinate amount of standard right well remember that fridging is referenced to green lantern had a girlfriend who then got put in a fridge and the the gist of it is that they're not really a character they're a prop who dies to prop up someone else it's like john wick a prop who dies who props up someone else but like i don't know that's a problem like i don't well do i need to have that do i need to have that history to understand that a character would be upset that someone who is important in their life died you know imagine i said to you guys like the big problem with marcus is that we never get to know the daughter apparently we're just supposed to believe he cares about it but i don't know what their relationship is yeah it's just like what are you why are you saying that we don't need to know you do you understand what a father-daughter relationship is like excuse me yeah they just excite me to believe that a father loves his daughter i i think it's ridiculous and this is what i mean like she's a motivation for him and what is her character it's like not much of all she's like she exists to be part of a motivation for him and it's like okay but there's no reason why he wouldn't fucking have a daughter and then of course silka would threaten people he loves like why are we why are we here when you enter into any story you're always going to have some level of expectations or inferences that you pull from the fact that you're a human being who is alive and exists in this planet yep in on this planet oh look in the going you're in a planet you exist in the uh in the crust and it's it's real no wait the crust is what what's the we're on the crust we're not in it you can be in the crust though like if you dig a hole well i'm you can be but we're not generally no but i i mean you can be in the fucking mantle if you well that's what i was about to ask uh you know what's the one below the crust there's the out there's the mantle and there's the mantle then the outer core then the inner core right i believe so there is the soft chewy center yeah it'd probably be real toasty and up in in that little mantle there isn't it like isn't it like hot around the like in the mantle that it is in the core or something i don't know because it's the pressure or i'm not one but maybe i'm not i'm not i'm not saying that this is a fact this is something that i feel like i might vaguely have heard at some point i think uh i'm not stating this the core is like 10 000 degrees right um and and the mantle is not that hot so is it the crust upper mantle mantle outer core inner core okay yeah yeah that sounds about right i don't remember learning about upper and lower mantle though i think it was often uh often um you know just just one big mantle there's no need to distinguish between the upper and lower that's what caused the problems and pilt over in the first place the under city and the over city we don't need any of that in earthy the it's all the core i'm no no it's all the mantle fuck i'm convinced all right anyway moving on so vi points out that jace never even looks into the prison cells and that he wants to act but he doesn't want to go like vigilante mode so she suggests they work together and take out the suppliers of shimmer um even though it wouldn't be sanctioned and uh what's what i like about this scene is when she first arrives he's like very hesitant with her um i think he says i can call security and then when she starts to look at and pick up the gauntlet he like tightens his grip on his hammer it's just uh there's a course he doesn't trust her there's a noise check off his gauntlets doesn't know what's going on here they have so much imagery of him with a hammer before his actual hammer comes along like in different ways well yeah i guess we got check off's hammer too i just keep defaulting to the gauntlets um and yeah so they basically agree uh jace has reached a boiling point and he's going to take a lot of enforcers and vi down to one of the shimmer suppliers areas and knock it out basically feels like he's got to do something yeah and so do people just know where this forge is because i was just a little bit confused how she got here when i can't imagine it's a well-kept secret that it's going to be the forge of the science department so she could probably get it get away there um and yeah uh so we cut to all these shimmer people and all the enforcers break in it's a standard raid they're like a kid manages to press a press a button of like the right redemption he's a pinnick button and it seems that silco has already prepared some elements in case they had to go for a fight and it's basically chem tank people they're all in like these little tanks and they get infused with i guess a variant of shimmer and it makes them real fast and uh very quick before they have to fight jace hey we're gonna get there we're almost there right so they fucking obliterate every enforcer pretty much um the first four people to tend to bring up is wait why didn't they kill him straight away why was he like the last person they kill and it's like i don't know i don't know i ain't got anything for that he was in the center of all that wasn't they're all kind of everywhere the guards first you know like it could the thing is that these these creatures are jumping around all over the place like there's no reason to think that they might have even started with him you know he could could have happened um i would say that this is kind of an example of a thing that you just seen a lot of shows and movies and stuff where like the nameless goons uh the nameless faceless like minions get killed but all of the important speaking named characters live even though in universe in fact in universe it's like jace is incredibly significant right so that should that was the only thing i was gonna try and think about using is like maybe maybe they have special orders for jace i don't know but then they try to kill him anyway so which counters that theory so it's out yeah like this there's really not much you can say as to how this happened he just got lucky quote unquote that he wasn't killed straight away um i mean i'm just under the impression that like you know they took him they they took out the guards that were around the area and then they were focused on taking out the people shooting at them because you know bang bang annoying stop the bang bang you know i think that's a better argument than anything else but still they're like leaping at people look at how fast they're going if that jumped on like on jace no chance he's he's gone they're the ones attacking first jace isn't doing anything yet but they're they're going to kill him it's just take care of a bang bang we're fucking rabid and angry yeah all right i will give you that you can argue that if you're one of these cam tank people and you see this a lot of people one of them's holding a hammer the rest have guns i think it's safe to conclude you probably should go for the gun people first yeah i think that's again giant giant glowing hammer you know i mean yeah i look at that hammer if me and you free we're gonna go kill them all and then you were like we should take out the hammer guy he looks i don't know that hammer's glowing i'd be like i i don't know i but i know what a gun does yeah the guns definitely hurt at a rage um so maybe that's good enough and uh we can leave it there but they do sort of slow down when jace is already one left yeah that's the part that you can't really uh um but then vi gets a fucking badass start to this fight i quite like her throughout all of this jace is the one that i take a couple issues with um yes uh she slides down jace was like able to do this well yeah well we can go through bit by bit like that yeah first of all is her intro and the fucking it looks glorious her first it looks like a good cam tango yeah you can take it fucking frame by frame the impact frames are yeah oh god yeah like every frame of this is amazing boom yeah that's right yeah so that would have hurt if you want to convey force yeah this might be a way to do it yep dead the camera shake afterwards like oh it hasn't even crunched yet and that little slobo of of hair connecting to him and then letting it go again where he just blasts off like yeah it's a detail i noticed when i first like watched that little bit frame by frame the camera takes a second to catch up with it as it flies off yeah it just vanishes in the camera it's like wait by the fuck yeah this little look she gives him of like yeah that's pretty cool huh and then wakes it up and then puts her game face on it's just like yeah there's a little nod in the background like vi a whole bunch and uh we've talked about before but the fact that she has so much she has to fight so hard to win her fights makes it much more entertaining to watch absolutely um but yeah and this is definitely a legal legends coup moment because you're like jay's with his hammer and they're going lids and they're going to fight a bunch of goons together it's like all right i'm ready yep i've got my tissues ready oh no and uh vi does that thing again with her arm i was trying to put it out before i don't know if i've picked up all the examples but when she's about to start of a fight i think she does it a couple times in the middle of a fight as well but it's always the same arm that she's readying up i don't know if there's something maybe wrong with it or if it's a tick but it's just cool that it's consistent that's all yep uh yeah the song is pretty awesome as well i don't know if there's a lot i'm very good which arm is she doing that on the right arm right didn't she break that arm it could be that it you could relate it to when the door fell on it um yeah it could be that yeah that arm's a bit it might have healed funny but it still works man look at this frame yeah there are a few left i the impact frames with jayce's fucking and yeah this is like i don't want to so i fucking love his opening attack be that swing swing yeah he heads him up and smashes into that fucking guy the only problem is like i just see the bones disintegrating well it's just like jayce i didn't know that jayce was such a proficient fight well wait i know that's not my issue with this moment and my issue was on the the camtanker i can believe that he can swing around a hammer my issue with his proficiency with the hammer comes a little bit later um it's just that the cam guy just doesn't do anything he just stands there and gets hit um not perfect but still pretty satisfying to watch then every time we get vii she is kicking absolute ass loads of like just block block block counter block counter sort of stuff and just screaming while she's doing it have real quickly uh the sounds of her ringing her gauntlets just before like just as she starts to run off and then the sound she makes as she's running straight from the game that's her ultimate sound and the sound she makes when charging up her q so you're cooing away saying yes well it's from the thing um it's from the thing a hammer a hammer is like a slow impact weapon so it seems like just plausibly it doesn't really work as well in an actual combat environment as it might you know i feel like it's something they had to include because it's like that in the game and practically speaking it's probably not that great for fast combat i disagree i would i would normally agree with you up until we get the the scene in the next episode but wait what's what's the count to go ahead right but i guess i guess i'm you're sort of i was at first and then he kept going and now i feel like you're mixing things up a a hammer so your issue is what exactly so with the size of the hammer it's very large it's a very slow weapon and i feel like the hammer is going to be dead by the time he's made a hit with it yeah the hammer should weigh a million pounds yeah let's okay huge it is absurd let's make it clear very quickly i'm assuming jay's aware of this maybe not but yes hammer war hammers and hammers are a thing in fights however we're not dealing with that environment he had a choice to make whatever weapon he wanted and he went with a hammer that can turn into what is essentially kind of a rifle um meanwhile vise makes way more sense she's making use of tools meant for something else because they suit her uh he could have made anything and he went with something that to be honest with you is not fantastic uh compared to what he could have made because you know what is literally what is stopping him from making a hextech rifle i mean the thing that going for right is the fact that he well he grew up surrounded by hammers he has to be experienced but i don't think that justifies him using it as a weapon well so this is this here this this sequence where he uh he like he goes block and then hits down block again and then like uses the the handle of the hammer or the pommel um he's like he's having a full-on battle with the the guy who's moving really fast to the blade and it's like wait how you doing this like building hammers doesn't mean you're like is this something people someone trained you to do with hammers yeah like when did you ever need to use these kinds of moves with a giant hammer that's a bit of a question mark yeah that's some sick moves you're doing there buddy like it's great but how why where did you learn this yeah he's a little bit of a gary stew in that regard however i will counter that the hex crystals are making the weapons light as seen in the next episode after she's well she's fighting savika that's why this hammer is not as heavy as it could be right fair enough i think that's fair well yeah because these things would be heavy as fuck if they can do what they can do um you could not lift and so i'm willing to believe the hextech jams especially with the anti-gravity features uh they've been manipulated in some way shape or form so that they can make it so the weapons aren't as heavy um oh we know that yeah all right and see this is the thing about taking fights really slowly this thing he does here i'm totally fine with that's fine i think it's totally makes sense and yeah the shield thing shield boy totally fine but that that one little sequence there where he does like a full-on battle with one of them it's really cool i just don't know that he should be able to do that no he's acting a bit too proficiently a bit too quickly yeah he's a little he's a little bit of a gary stew i gotta say jace is a bit of a gary stew he's super duper smart but he's also super duper handsome he's super duper strong he knows how to fight with a super duper hammer it's like okay hold on a minute just a little too well around it don't you think i'm gonna push back on this i i want to push back a little bit too it is just this part that i find to be like otherwise to be fair it's a part of a part it's not even the whole thing yeah exactly very flawed individual yeah like he yeah yeah i'm not actually he is well i feel like that's that's the end of it right you're already disqualified while you can ever see well i mean well i only say he's right he did say a bit of one just being like i pulled back a little bit and called him a bit of one but he's not he's not terrible or anything like that it's just that he's just a little more well rounded than i think any nerd is expected to be so i think what i was a total nerd what i would say is it is specifically his proficiency at fighting in this scene that i'm not a fan of otherwise i think he's just a character like a well rounded character um i don't i don't think uh yeah like i don't i don't really lean towards any sort of like gary stew or anything like that i just i think that it's fine otherwise mary mary stew stuff the reason that that applies is because it's like the universe folding around to make this character look good rather than them earning their skills themselves right a character like that you can just have characters who are really good at anything everything like if they've if they have a reason to be that way like that's that can happen you have characters who are like really good at shit tons of stuff in loads of different ways um but that's why this is a this is the only issue because this is the only time where it breaks into a skill that he probably shouldn't have and that's the thing if someone said but he's familiar with hammers i'd be like yeah i fight incredibly technically i definitely would have preferred it because i guess you've got a hammer thing for the game but i i feel like jay should be fighting awkwardly but with a really interesting and good weapon that he's created specifically for himself which kind of makes it okay and the sense that he's using it in sort of a clumsy fashion and he's kind of frazzled and worried but it's like a shield and uh something it's it's uh maybe a gun or a rifle or some kind it's something not just i'm going to make a huge hammer i feel like they try oh i feel it as well like that uh they like they went you know they got the go ahead of themselves with the choreography because they do make a point of showing that he gets clipped by a blade which like as compared to vi at least is i think them trying to suggest his unfamiliarity with fighting as well as his expressions throughout but again they just think i would have preferred more of him failing yeah i agree yeah the him i think we're missing his like unexperienced fights i think we never got those we never got his like oh i'm i'm losing ground here fights you know i think the difficulty in terms of fights i think what you find difficult though with like conveying him stumbling is in this fight it's like man that that could seriously hurt or kill you if like we consider a stumble considering who is up against but i feel like that's why we don't get that fight because there's not time for it it's like um an opponent where these are highly lethal enemies um yeah maybe they should have depowered them a little bit and made them more less real fast yeah easily go away with enforcers all the enforcers who are trained right trained