There we go, I think I got it right this time. Hello everyone and welcome back to For The Minions, the weekly show where we talk about the Paragon remakes and ethereal this week. Of course we're going to be talking about the Over Prime news with their name change, getting the rights to Paragon and the logo and we're also going to talk about their gameplay trailer and then we'll head in and talk about some ethereal update, a new skin for my girl Malaya and then Predecessor has released that they're going to have Asian servers on Early Access and they didn't have Asian servers for their closed beta test but I'm your host the man goose joining me as always as Jellies and the Viking Jetta but we also have a special guest specifically for the Over Prime segment it's Sarah Jog, how are you doing Sarah Jog? I'm good, happy that there's news that I actually, how should I say that? Happy that there's news from Over Prime to talk about. Sarah Jog asked me a long time ago, hey man when there's big news for Over Prime can I come on the show?  Fantastic man, he's happy to be here. I was super excited for this announcement and so I think it's going to be super fun to talk about for sure. Unfortunately we also have the Viking Jetta, how are you doing Viking? I'm doing super good, I'm also amped to go over all this stuff actually, I mean the Over Prime news is probably the biggest of it but Predecessor putting out some good info and we still have to talk about you know the Predecessor paid to access early access so that'll be interesting to see how the community responds to that but yeah having Sarah Jog back is also really exciting, can't wait to get his insights on all this stuff. He knows more than us that's for sure so let's get right on into the Over Prime portion of this, don't want to waste Sarah Jog's time too much. So Over Prime big news of course being and I thought that they had bought the rights to the old Paragon name and the logo turns out they just asked for them and got them I guess I'm sure it has a lot to do with Netmarble and Epic there's probably a little bit of leverage there but apparently they didn't even have to pay for the rights they just now have the rights to Paragon so they renamed it to Paragon the Over Prime and Sarah Jog what can you tell us about this, what do you think this is going to mean for the game going forward? Well for personal I don't care about the rename but marketing wise it's obviously very important because it basically proves that Epic sees Over Prime as Paragon sequel whereas a lot of people used to treat Over Prime like a virus or whatever with sketchy download and yeah there were rumors about the maps being datamined and what else I don't remember and I just know a lot of people said Over Prime was bad and probably you should not touch it because it looked sketchy which I get but basically proves now that it's a real thing and is even approved by Epic in that sense so I think it's amazing and it's bringing like a lot of publicity to the game that it just doesn't have because people don't even know about the game still to this day there's a lot of people that don't know the remakes exist in general. I think Mike is louder than okay I'll fix that Pete Savais thank you. Yeah man gives goodness gracious I think a big thing you touched on there though is that you don't care about the name change and for the most part I don't see Over Prime fans caring about the name change at all if anything it should be a win for Over Prime fans but it's not going to scare other people away necessarily if they weren't going to play Over Prime they're not going to play Over Prime still but if maybe this did change their mind that's already huge right that's an added boost of players and I've already seen that even in the Over Prime Discord there are people that have come in saying like I was searching for Paragon and I found this yeah right and it's already in three days they're already getting benefit from the name change and I think that's absolutely huge that took me by surprise how many people have come in so I think this is a boon for all of the Paragon remakes really because I agree when they find out about Over Prime they're going to find out about the others and there's a lot of people joining the Over Prime Discord server that had no idea any of this was going on and they do now because of this name change and it's pretty crazy what do you think Jedi? Yeah I mean I echo the same points to be honest it's it's I think the marketing aspect of it is going to be the biggest especially for pushing towards you know once they actually go to early access I do think it puts a bit of pressure on you know predecessor team and Fault to you know up there advertising or their own social media pressure because this is free for Over Prime now it's it's at this point it's just like everything the name changes back for the characters the name change for you know Over Prime being now the remake I guess if you want to call it that from epic it puts a lot of pressure on the other studios to really kind of match that kind of momentum I think it's still possible again I think with Jelly's point that you're not going to necessarily hard convince a predecessor fan to go over to Over Prime just because of the name change but other people who hadn't been paying attention at all that where those guys as friends might be like I'm gonna be playing you know Over Prime and I don't know I think it's I think it's good all the way it's definitely not bad despite some really weird comments that I saw on Twitter like there was some very aggressive yeah we'll talk about that later on yeah yeah I think another big thing is this gives Over Prime and all of them like Mangus was saying it does benefit all of them to a certain extent this gives Over Prime access to the much grander player base than any of these games have had access to thus far right I was just looking it up and as of July 2017 Paragon announced they had 7.3 million registered players right and sure there's duplicate accounts in that but even if you just round that down to 700 to 7 million these games barely scratch probably 100 to 200,000 people right if any of those people if any of that 7 million get nostalgic and they look up Paragon now they're immediately going to be faced with something new that's playable or is going to be playable very soon and that gives them it's we've talked about in the past Mangus about the Paragon pond right that they're fishing out of the Paragon pond this just absolutely gave them way better tools to fish out of that pond and it's going to be fantastic to see which will help them transition out of that pond into the ocean at large the other thing too I looked up the search engine optimization comparison for Paragon predecessor Over Prime and Fault and it is wild how much more search for Paragon is and a lot of times it's not even for the video game Paragon it's just the word Paragon but right who cares that doesn't matter people are searching for the word Paragon and they're going to find this game because of that a lot of us for Diablo there's a Paragon builders and some shit like that but I would have to imagine and maybe Sir John could add in some some insight to this is a bigger value for the western market and capturing more of that I think than it necessarily I mean I'm sure it doesn't hurt the eastern market but I definitely think it's a bigger benefit to getting more eyes on it that are you know here on the west I'm not sure but I think for the Chinese part of the Asian market it's also really important name Paragon so it's not only the western that are focused more on the name I'm not 100% sure I would need to ask lucky like one of the content mods that's from Chinese but I think he mentioned something in that direction once so in general it will be everywhere on the world I guess where it's more searched have you noticed a big uptake in what like you know obviously you're you're very much involved in in like the forums and all that stuff are you seeing like a big influx of players coming in that are talking about the game since the announcement I mean on the discord there are a lot of new people that joined you when you go on the overprime discord there's a lot of people with like that I'm new here say hi there's that little what is that just a like welcome leave thingy that says that people are new so you recognize new people and since the name change I've seen a lot more of those new people coming in and asking stuff so cool and then along with this announcement of the name change came a new and a bit an updated gameplay trailer which was much much cleaner than the the demo versions of the game that that we've seen so far and Sarajog what did you got to say about this gameplay trailer because I imagine that's that's more the meat and potatoes of what we actually care about the name change is cool it's going to help with search engine optimization but we care about the goddamn game and this is more the game than anything so um what anything that you wanted to point out there sarajog with that gameplay trailer I mean first of all I'm not sure if I got the list correct but we saw rave hoviter aurora and seraph which weren't in the close beta I'm not sure if I missed any of the new heroes but I think the other heroes or decker wasn't in the close beta either and fey okay like I said I'm not sure if I missed anyone but we got you though we got your back yeah that's why I'm asking um so like there's already five new heroes that we know will come out for the early access so I really like that and the whole thing it just looks very clean and nice as you already mentioned um one thing I don't like really is the announcer he's weird kind of like he's a little underwhelming a little flat little flat yeah um yeah we got a pentakill nice good job that's how it felt when I watched it for the pentakill art I was like okay sure we had the same impression the texts he says are extremely long an ally has slain an enemy if you kill someone he actually says uh you killed an enemy or something I believe it's a different text which is nice but I think an ally has slain an enemy is just way too long as a voice line because if there's multiple things happening you're just gonna be hearing it for the next minute while he's saying sentences yeah too much sound clutter I didn't notice that but I'm also like the pop-up that shows when you kill someone is ally has defeated an enemy but he's saying an ally has slain an enemy so I think it's weird to like make different visual text than what he's saying when it's still pretty much the same mm-hmm the the visuals were good though they were improved and updated like the kill in the middle of your screen really cool I like that it's not like filling your screen anymore I remember from the beta sometimes you saw more numbers and stuff than actual gameplay so that's definitely an improvement there and what else did I have on my notes minions I'm not un-present sure but they changed the minions back to our prior to paragon minions instead of their own minions that they actually created the tions they're gone yeah yeah and I don't really know why because we asked and they can use both so I don't know why they decided to not use them anymore ranger said in discord that the the new the new ones that they made that have now been replaced by the original paragon minions he said those minions have gone to the jungle but if you look in this gameplay footage it's paragon minions in the jungle as well so I don't know if there's plans to put the tions in the jungle going forward or if that was his way of saying that they went out to pasture that your dog isn't dead he's on a farm somewhere these minions are in the jungle now they had custom jungle camps mostly anyway for this actually I guess I should say specifically for the buffs the little nothing camps were paragon minions so I guess making those tions wouldn't be that big a deal but I thought they were going to make those more unique as well than rather than just the generic minion size by itself right um nothing I noticed was form of grubbush I think it used to be called the uh transformation card that would turn you into the little river lane bug it now turns you into a fish but that is now in the game which is pretty cool to see you see Kalari get turned into a fish at one point in time when I didn't know what that was I was like what the fuck why is there a fish there I did not know I was so confused Kalari's new ability she turns into a fish yeah I was like yeah I was like okay this must be something that I'm just dumb and don't know about but uh yeah no to be the one of the coolest things to see was Aurora I because we talked about her last week right as somebody that we thought it would be super cool to come into one of these games and then we got to see her in action in play doing I think some really cool stuff it does I think people were talking about it in chat already that it looks like there might be some changes to how some of her kit worked so I thought that was really really interesting I can't wait to they definitely watched FTM and saw that Aurora was the highest pick and they're like okay we're just gonna put her in this video sure I don't know who was playing howitzer too but that howitzer was bad ass like yeah the way he cut off the escape with the yalt but I mean the person wasn't going to make it there anyway because uh phase pulled him back but still that was a great play and then I do I really love that howitzer as well that the fact that he comes down and it just rains down it's very much like old howitzer old paragon and I that old was always fun but I think this looks way better than his ever did in old paragon yeah that seems to be a trend with uh over prime as they are they they definitely improve the visuals on a lot of this stuff and apparently ranger said this video is two months old so this is from two months ago this footage so I'm sure there's been drastic improvements since then as well yeah pretty crazy stuff um let's see some other stuff that that over prime uh announced that they have a new contest um that you can post the video of the name change they provided the video you they you get the video you put your own song into it and then um you post it with the hashtags paragon is back paragon the over prime on youtube tiktok doyen or billy billy and um then you post that into their discord and you can win like something from them I think like $10 in-game currency $10 in-game currency something like that yeah so that's cool that's again they're leveraging their own community to market for them which is just brilliant I'm sure yeah you're giving people like $10 off in-game currency but that's gonna that's way cheaper than like hiring like a marketing firm to do a bunch of this stuff for you so again good on them um they also have a new loading screen which looked really good and then the uh they have the ranked icons we talked about this that ranked would be with early access these ranked icons use the old paragon logo and just build up from that um I'm sure that'll come across the screen as it scrolls through so I think that's awesome I think it's really cool that they're going to have ranked right off the rip um I'm a little concerned about it because I think you have to have a lot more people and players for rank to be truly successful so it's going to kind of depend on how many people actually play paragon the over prime if the if this ranked mode is success is uh successful any thoughts any thoughts well I think the ranks symbols themselves look awesome like they're clear they're distinct the the differences are are valuable uh I'm excited for them to be honest I think they look really really really neat it's a cool way to pay homage to the game um and I know that jelly was was getting some flak for some people about the nostalgia factor on Twitter and to me personally I didn't ever feel like over prime was like leaning away from you know being associated with paragon they they talk about being you know old paragon fans and they want to do this new version uh you know justice and make it succeed I mean and even like in their you know promos they do things that old paragon did to promote as well and so I don't know it seems weird to get grumpy at them for for using nostalgia when they've been using nostalgia they just now have the name to also play with I don't know well and they're every one of these games is banking on your nostalgia right so to blame over prime because they have the name paragon now for baiting for nostalgia baiting is just an overreach right like it's just these games they're absolutely banking on your nostalgia for you to get in the door that's just one of those things right and how you view that nostalgia is which game you may prefer right you may prefer the faster paced over prime version um that they have you may prefer the predecessor version you may prefer the fault version right but they're all banking on your nostalgia regardless mm-hmm what interesting comment was from swiftix saying that um he didn't think that we would like this name change since um over prime has constantly distinguished themselves as being very different from paragon and I still like that they distinguish themselves by making plenty of changes so it's not just a remake of paragon it's their own game um I probably would have had a different opinion on this before overwatch two came out because when overwatch two came out I'm like this isn't a sequel this is just the same fucking game so I think there's a definitely there's a difference between a successor and a sequel and I think over prime is far more of a sequel to these games whereas predecessor is a successor to the game to uh to paragon um who should have the rights to the name I don't know apparently nobody bought the rights so predecessor I think it would be a dumb move but predecessor could you know approach epic and also get the rights to paragon that we'd have two games they paragon probably I don't know I know that they so I think it was ranger said that they did not purchase the rights for paragon the name or the logo they just asked and were given it to them right I wonder if there's still an agreement there that the other games can't go back and ask for that or what um even though it was not transactional I'm very curious to see what the if there was some kind of rules behind it I'm sure there were to an extent but you touched on an important thing there man goose of uh people thinking that we were going to be upset about about this change and then going away from their distinctions from the other games and I think honestly for me this announcement of the name change makes me view those previous changes differently right they're not they didn't just go back to the paragon names just because they could go back to the paragon names they went back to the paragon names because they're changing their name to paragon right which is a whole different way to view it than just a random name change a couple months ago and I think it with that now in mind it makes those situations very different in case in terms of my reaction to why they made those changes and I think it's good that they made those changes with this now name change coming through I'm also in agreement with a lot of people I think they should drop the D from the name I think it should just be paragon overprime not paragon the overprime that's just a matter of personal opinion though I think a lot of people kind of agree with that though um guys in the comments uh if you guys if you have any hot takes any questions about any of this overprime business that's going on let us know now I'm just going to quickly go over what was changed in the Trello so in the Trello for this week was minions spawn animation improvements custom game improvements and bug fixes matchmaking system improvements jungle monster skill improvements prime guardians some meaning system improvements so it's all improvements it's nothing new it's all polish on the game that's already there so again there's nothing really new or meaty here but just the fact that it's all just polish is just a really good sign that this game is pretty decently ready so something else actually want to touch on real quick is originally on steam the last closed beta test was a different title on steam that we had we got access to the beta test version of overprime that title has actually been updated from its overprime beta test title to paragon the overprime final test which we don't know if that means they're going to do one more test before they go full release or if that's an internal thing I know that that's the title they used to do their testing internally because I watched the steam did the database on it and it the players tick up and whenever they're uh online if you're actually doing testing it's but it's like games worth people or a couple maybe a couple games so I know that's where they do their testing so maybe it's the final test for the internals and they're still going to release anyway but it was a change that was noticed so that I'm very curious to see what happens with Sarah Jog knows all this stuff he's just he can't say it yeah yeah I do know we're not going to pressure him uh at least live we were pressuring him before the show just to give him a hard time but uh no he's he's not giving away any secrets or hints or anything like that Elijah Hawkins says with the announcement of the name change does that give any insight into how close or far we are from early access I don't think the name change is any it is indicative at all of how close we are to release of the game we do know it's it's still going to be sometime this year we just don't know where went about this year I do know that they're that that competition that they're doing ends in December like the first week of December um so maybe I would I would think after that um but there's a there's a big Korean gaming conference going on and a lot of people I forget what it's called but a lot of people were saying that maybe they'll announce it there Sarah Jog do you know what that conference is no I don't know about the conference okay I'd have to look back in I mean so the other thing with that announcement is it that announcement ending in early December doesn't necessarily mean that it has to end before early access comes out because they could easily have the game be live and still be having people spread the word like that and once you play it then they can be like oh hey did you get your free ten dollars for putting this on tiktok and no how do I do that and then bam like it's just a great way to continue that marketing even after the initial release of the game sure and it's free advertisement for them because exactly like they don't pay you ten dollars it's not like they pay actually they're just like giving you some free skins kind of yep and I bet you are g-star 2022 is the name of the conference there you go I would bet you that ten dollars is just enough for one skin but we'll have leftover currency so you'll need that angel video game manipulation why do you always speak these evils into existence I feel like every time we talk about like monetization or whatever he comes in with like the thing that will drive us the most nuts oh I'm tilted already they already got loot boxes so I can't even theorize that one I know I'm going to tell you guys something right now jelly figured all this out weeks before anybody actually knew like jelly in his super sleuth ways was like I think they changed their name their game named a paragon like what that's crazy oh yeah no two like two weeks ago I sent a message at like 130 in the morning to these guys being like I just found this they changed their name to paragon in the files somewhere right we were kind of like memeing on it the next day and then like the discord change announcement went out and was like wait a second this is suspiciously like tinfoil hat got bigger and bigger it was like yeah it was really funny that was that was quite the experience and of course we just couldn't help ourselves we ran with every idea that we came up with like but we also didn't want to be part of like you know releasing anything that wouldn't actually prove to be true because you know we're professionals yeah around here on fpm that's so I do want to apologize to stunt on this show actually because stunt was messaging me about it talking like oh did you hear about this and I'm like no um let's see search bin says uh which one of which one has been building the lore behind the characters and does lore do anything for y'all or does it not matter um over prime is the only one that has done any kind of lore uh like I've like I said I did a whole lore video for them but like I said that video it's not like brandon sanderson level of worldbuilding but it doesn't have to be it's for a video game so it's not the you know it's not gonna it's not lore that's gonna turn your head or anything but it's it's there and it's a lot meatier than the paragon ever had so they do have some lore and it's not gonna change with the uh name change so cool stuff there um I think the lore will be if important for the Netflix series stay once planned I didn't hear anything in that regard in a long time so no idea where they're at there honestly because I know they initially changed the names because they wanted to make a series and they didn't want to have the paragon names in there for yeah marketing reasons or whatever license problem set a paragon fan that still whenever this netflix series does does come out it hasn't heard that the game is back in any way shape or form any of the successors anything just perusing netflix one day and paragon you're like what the hell it's like it's like sever ox on the coverage you're like is that mother fucking sever ox yeah and you know what's gonna happen you know it's gonna happen too that's the crazy part can't wait yeah definitely gonna be interesting uh what do you guys got anything else before we let sarah go and move on to uh predecessor no I mean unless he has something he wants to specifically talk about you know what I mean like yeah any fun any fun trips coming up are you taking any fun I didn't get the privilege to be invited over there yet I'm doing this from home sorry guys nothing fancy sir drug you might be able to answer this one though is there a controller sport in early access do you know that I can't remember this one if over primate controller sport or not I don't think except for the steam built-in controller support okay there was some way to do it over steam as far as I remember but I play with keyboard and mouse so I don't really know about the controller parts honestly since it didn't affect me we all know how viking feels about console people and then bringing their controllers over to the pc so uh 60 wavy asks why did they change my girl shabby's face they wanted her to look more Korean and but then being a Korean company I see no problem with that but that's exactly the reason that her and kwang kwang they are that's why they made those changes I think she looks really good especially um just her base skin um she's got the uh fuck i forget the name of that traditional korean dresses but um honbok uh speaking of actually skins the thing I loved about this gameplay as well is there were skins present throughout it yeah that was not base models yeah the grux skin with the like cool like magma whatever weirdness that was super cool uh just in general I think the skins being showcased in this are a cool idea to show that it's not just the core design to get on live dude she gets turned into a fucking fish it's like that that angler fish too I think right yeah is that what that yeah it's like it reminds me of like a modified version of the old riverbuff that's really cool um windu is asking about uh early access and whether or not it'll be paid or if it's been confirmed to be free it has been confirmed in their discord that it will be free to play on early access release unlike some games we know yeah I imagine I imagine that will come with a lot of uh monetization though I'm like 100 all kinds of stuff we know and we will bitch and moan about it once we know exactly what it looks like yeah probably that we will probably will not be one that I'm excited to see but we'll see yeah I'm actually hopeful that maybe they got enough flak or saw how much flak other companies and games have gotten that they maybe tone it back and they come up with a different way to do it I'm not as a wishful thinking but one last thing I wanted to bring up too is in there so they did like um uh a poster a background poster background image had a bunch of the the paragon heroes gadget looked fan fucking tastic in that poster like they took her 1930s football helmet on her off of her gave her like a tracer style haircut and gave her like a fucking bikini top instead of the tube top she looked fucking amazing like just like I was nice to see somebody doing something nice for gadget yeah I think gadget was a little underappreciated I think another thing with that as well is that on that poster gadget is there but it's not in the game yet that we've seen and grim is there who is not in the game yet that we've seen yeah we've seen gadget a little bit in one of their gameplay trailers because if you remember her basic attack was an actual arc of lightning oh you're right connected to her target that was really cool looking you're right but no grim no grim yet no grim maybe he will also have an arc of lightning all right Sarajak do you have anything final for us before we move on to talking about some of these other games and let you go let you get the cps no I think for now that's all I can share with you guys unfortunately well our teams are always open you can send us messages that you want to tell us I appreciate it I appreciate the offer I really do I mean it's just weighing so heavy on you you know you shouldn't have to carry that burden on your own you know yeah I'll discuss it with the other mods and then yeah once I'll make an agreement with them maybe maybe I'll share something with you but I wouldn't get your hopes up too much too late hopes are up I'm ready Sarajak does stream he does play all of these games like he's coming from a place of he understands fault predecessor and over prime so check out Sarajak's streams when you get a chance but I really appreciate you coming on the show man it was good to have you thanks very much thank you for thank you for asking me to be on here there was a lot of people that wanted to be on this week I'll tell you that right goddamn now but Sarajak he reserved his seat a lot a lot quicker than they did months ago yeah I mean I appreciate it I would love to stay longer but as we already discussed it's like a half past midnight and I shook it up tomorrow for work so yeah I don't want to drag this out too long cause no problem it's gonna be a rough day otherwise on days are always rough and with less sleep they're even rougher big true gotcha man all right we'll appreciate you coming you gotta go ahead and peace out whenever you want to and I'll switch up the scene you later dude bye I love you all right let's get in now to ethereal author all we're gonna wait we're gonna save our predecessor for last because that's gonna lead into the topic of discussion anyway so ethereal this week released a new skin for my girl Malaya and this is uh it's the skin I asked for a long time ago she's got the Chinese key pal and it is a badass looking skin we don't see the 3d render of it yet but um also put the uh the 3d rendered cyberpunk skin in the uh scroll so people could see that jelly what what what can you tell us about this Malaya you're a Malaya main I do I am I didn't expect to be but I do I love Malaya so much it's ridiculous but no the skin so back I mean it's been two three years now since the skin was shown for the first time and it was in a contest for Malaya skins to which skin did you want basically to see on Malaya it was the cyberpunk skin and the empress Malaya skin and the cyberpunk skin won out in the end but basically they decided that after that that like the empress skin is way too good to just let go after that so decided absolutely we have to make that a skin um and I can tell you the skin in game looks incredible so it's so it is in game and everything now it is it's it's in rendered it's already been rendered out the whole nine yards it's designed modeled the whole nine so it this incredible skin that you model it using the suit that you have at your e I said yes I would give mangoes a whole bunch of mixed feelings oh shit um knock on wood um yeah I was amazed during the first what was the the first open test that you guys had or actually it wasn't open but the first test that you guys had for ethereal where the community could play I was amazed that the cyberpunk skin was already in like it was in there for that test that kind of blew me away that you guys already had skins in at this point in development which is very early yeah I think right now actually I'm not going to give a number because I don't know exactly how far we have a bunch of skins that are in the game already um and it's we're excited as more and more get added and all that kind of stuff as ethereal provided a ballpark time frame for EA or no we have not um we are currently planning on having a test sometime this year but the I'm not going to give any specific dates on any of that kind of stuff because that's still in flux there's definitely a plan to get some kind of open test out to the community this year for sure right on that's that's good here so that's like you know that's three months right I'm I'm aware okay okay I'm counting down on the rest of these games so I know exactly what that clock looks like okay I just make sure just make sure all right um do you guys have anything else for ethereal you want to be one I think we're good I mean I'll just say I think the skin I mean she's already like a really really cool looking character you know uh and I liked the cyberpunk skin a lot this one I didn't know this one existed uh so I do I kind of also agree that you know we need the behind shot you know just to really get the full understanding of uh you know we'll get mangoes out there putting her behind shot in everything like he does with Aurora oh god damn right I do I love that sweet sweet side cheek I've been called out for that a lot lately and I was like why are you guys just now noticing that I put her ass in everything I can I just want to say that I think it's cool that um despite like you know there being a lot of development that needs to be worked on outside of just you know uh the skins and stuff like that I would imagine it for the artists being able to like work on something like you know it's skins and concept designs and stuff like that it kind of breaks things up makes the office a little bit more fun when you can spend a little bit of your time doing something that's a little bit different because I would imagine and I could be wrong but the grind and these types of games can probably start to feel overwhelming and I think a lot of people in the dev team wear a multitude of hats and work on lots of different parts of projects so being able to change things up and do something that I would imagine is a lot of fun which is working on skin art is pretty cool so I'm excited to see the fruits of their labor and uh obviously can't wait to see what it looks like in game yeah and I mean so actually I want to touch on that again real quick I've been seeing comments on this post in specific which is weird that it hasn't been on other skin posts that we've done but yeah for this post with a lot of people have been just saying like why aren't you just working on the game right why are you posting about skins why are you talking about skins why aren't you just working on the game and we are absolutely doing both things at the same time I can assure you skins is not taking away from development of the game right like it's the skin system already exists like mangus was saying before so adding new skins is a matter as a matter of getting materials and a 3d model and then we can basically plug and play from there yeah they're not taking programmers away from the game to work on skins like that's not how that works that's not happening so I just want to make sure that that's clear that these this is it is progressing the game as well as having skins in there as well it's almost like they missed the whole video that you did last week with all the map updates and changes that were being done like the whole map looks wildly different than just like six months ago yeah oh yeah it's it's crazy pay attention before you critique Windu Windu is funny jelly uh someone asked pred over prime in ethereal playable at the same time I'm calling it jelly won't allow that his he will schedule test weekend to be separate after those two times that we've announced a test weekend and somebody else has to trust me when I tell you I will be livid if a third time happens oh that's that's how we can know when these games were released is jelly less yeah 100% I'll announce a date and guarantee guarantee all right you guys ready to move on to pred let's do all right let's get into predecessor uh not a lot coming out of predecessor this week um the main thing that they announced you know officially announced was uh that they're going to have asian servers in early access which doesn't sound like a huge announcement but that's pretty big um I was thinking about this especially in conjunction with the over prime announcement um over prime and predecessor both had similar numbers but predecessors numbers were almost entirely um from the what from the western audience because they didn't have asian servers over prime's odd certain numbers were most primarily the eastern audience so we know that double their numbers what are you laughing at like there's the numbers right now like so that we know they have double their numbers like they got these numbers these numbers if they if pred adds asian servers they could make those numbers twice as big that's how the math works thank you yeah that's exactly how it works yep but uh over prime can do the same thing like with um but they're announced would have changed the name they can grab a lot more of that western audience so I think we're going to see both games growing quite a bit from from these decisions yeah absolutely I think didn't pred also say that they were going to have a west coast NA server also in that announcement which I think during the test it was just east coast it didn't have a west coast oh that's also pretty big yeah so I think that's also pretty big the main thing uh in that same theme was that the amount of uh south american people that were really really upset that they're not getting a server um because I know that that's a pretty big player pool and um I know that they're obviously wanting to play these games so it was interesting to see that that was kind of missing um given how large of a player base is is waiting to be able to access I mean even for ethereal right ethereal definitely has a smaller community than than predecessors over prime and I get messages constantly from the south american audience talking about like how popular ethereal is how they talk about it with a lot of people that they really want a server down there like so it's crazy yeah I completely agree I think they would should absolutely be looking toward adding a server down there um for that group yep not low x zero plus zero equals bigger zero that's yeah I was confused too as you were going through and I was like okay so they have zero player base and then I was like wait is he making but now I didn't make any sense and in looking for the player base I was very confused until you went like this and I'm like okay he's just getting senile in his old age you know it's just a mangoos analogy I was told there's charts what do you call them were they overlap a pie chart venn diagram venn diagram there you go not a pie chart venn diagram yeah sheesh amazing venn diagram people are gonna think that I'm trying to do cult symbols and stuff you are 100 yeah you're joining the you're joining the predecessor cult and so uh bigger predecessor news that came out on this the last week right at the end was that they confirmed they are doing paid early access which caught all three of us by surprise of like you didn't just say that did you like sure enough they paid early access they didn't make a formal announcement but mangoos made a video or mangoos made a post um it was on last week's fpm they confirmed in their discord like it it surprised me that that's the way it was just kind of put out into the world a little bit because they've been so cagey about whether or not it's going to be paid early access in the past and then with that too with that as well before I said anything like the content creator in me was like I need to make a video that about predecessor go paid or you know immediately but the human being in me was like I've been friends with rubah for a long fucking time I'm not going to throw him under the bus by treating this like a formal announcement so I talked to rubah uh in dms after the show was like hey man did you did you mean to say that and he's like and he doubled down once again he's like he's like you know it's EA everybody knows that EA is going to be paid like I don't think anybody's going to be surprised by this so I was like all right so I I met in the middle a lot of if you guys have known me for a while you know that the human being side of me wins out over the content creator side most of the time but uh this time as I met in the middle a little bit did that post asking it what people felt about this and I think it really did take a lot of people by surprise I'm not sure why everybody assumed that pred early access would be free we've said it on this show quite a few times that we assumed that it would be paid yeah and it's I think part of it's because they've been so cagey about it right like it's it's it and there were a lot of comments on your post as are your poll man goose as well and I even made mentioned it in the poll of like I I don't necessarily mind that it's paid early access right we were assuming it was going to be there I would not by any means say that all early access games are paid I would not make that generalization but we assumed it was going to be but they were so cagey about it yeah like on reddit posts they were in comments is it going to be paid or is it going to be free it'll be early access that's not an answer right like and so two one reveal it that way and then two just kind of be like well why did you expect any different then why haven't you been that clear this whole time right like that's your it's they're putting it on us that it's our fault that we expected differently and I don't like that at all right like that that's really but but it is because he's saying like what early access game isn't paid right kind of a like are you dumb why don't you realize that early access is going to be paid and they're being cagey about it right they're setting it up to be different than the normal and then they just tell us very nonchalant that oh yeah it is normal why did you expect differently that's kind of shady to me like that just does not it does not rub me the right way and it frankly reminds me of a lot of what fault does like well why did you expect differently because you were weird about it that's why I expected differently you just came out about it and said it's going to be paid early access everyone would go okay right like that'd be weird it just doesn't make sense to be that way about it like um I think too another thing another reason people expected it to be um a free early access is because like uh like you had like people like another notch in the boring that just flamed the dog should have a fault for having a paid early access and saying that it was like a cash grab scam and all this stuff and then like predecessors are hired in a boring to be their community manager so I think the expectation is there is well this guy that they hired to be their community manager he obviously hates a paid EA model so maybe so predecessors will probably not be paid paid EA so maybe people made that connection there and assumed then that it would be um a free early access I don't know I'm going to switch the screen over to what people's thoughts and feelings were on this uh while you do that Elijah asked in the chat I'm just going to read through it if pred and OP drop at the same time and pred is paid OP is free to play does that impact the race I think it absolutely does oh yeah 100% the other thing actually so a comment just reminded me stunned I vaguely remember pred's description on epic or steam said free to play MOBA now it's changed their website still says free to play MOBA all right yep and again further reason why your community expects different you're actively putting it out there that you're saying free to play on your website and your descriptions in the games on epic and steam and then you're acting surprised that we thought that might be true which is another thing that people said about fault fault kept saying that they would be free to play on full release but they would have a paid early access and people criticized them for that was like well don't say you're going to be free to play if you're not actually free to play I think that's kind of what they're doing there I don't know it's crazy I think yeah like like up suicidal just said I think that they kind of need to make to make it a paid early access they need to prove to all these investors that this game can make money like they're going they didn't they didn't get that money for free they need to pay people back they're going to need to make a month money off of this game so like like most of the community doesn't have a problem with them being a paid early access it just kind of kind of snuck up on this kind of came came as a little bit of a surprise but yeah with the so a lot of people loved it 22% loved it they they're fine they're 100% fine with it they're like you know take my money make it great 18% just like it vast majority not one say vast majority but a majority just don't care and with the don't cares most of them are like let me see how much it costs first and then I'll give you my opinion that's that's what most of the don't cares were um then 12% this liked and then 17% just flat out hated it so um the community this wasn't a bad reaction to this I think they could have announced this just fine to the community themselves and and it would have been perfectly okay I mean I know for me I was one of the don't cares um but I also like you know sent in the chat that I I looked at the don't cares more of like I don't really like it but I'll buy it if it's the right price and I would imagine that a good majority of the people in the don't care dislike and hate or maybe in that same thing they might hate it but it's not necessarily going to stop them from buying it if it comes out um and so that would be an interesting question is like how many people are just not going to actively participate because it's a purchased early access or are enough you know people excited about it that if it doesn't you know if it's not greedy on the pricing they'll do it and I was trying to figure out what that number would be for me because there have been early access games that I've I paid a decent amount of money for it like you know 40 bucks and I was really disappointed other times I'm like I paid 40 bucks and this I felt like it was a steal so um I'm not sure because I didn't play predecessor do you guys have an opinion um and I'd obviously be curious what chat would look like as far as like if there's a price point what that price point is that makes you hate it more or like it more I think it needs to be less than fault and they certainly I think we're fault fucked up where I got pissed off was when they had a season pass on top of the paid early access and then the base model early access didn't get you many heroes at all and it was I don't know fault like I could see why somebody would say that fault's paid EA is different than predecessors paid EA because they're saying that with predecessor you're getting a better product and then we've yet to see what they're going to cost I will say fault that was two years ago and there they have zero investors um say what you will about fault the strange matter has been running those servers on a Paragon remake for two years now 24 7 on a shoestring fucking budget their developers are getting paid hardly anything just so that people will have a Paragon is game to play so fucking salute the strange matter we don't 100 credit them enough just amazing from them but they needed that early access money to fund their game at all and I think pred's going to need that early access money to pay the investors back that they've already used to fund their game so that's the big difference there we talked about earlier in the week and I talked about it with some of you in chat as well is that this could be also the first time we're seeing that investor backing play a role in a decision that pred is making and that can go both ways that could be a good thing that yes they're getting it out of the way with the paid early access but then from there the monetization isn't super sleazy it isn't anything like that or it could go the other way in that it's paid early access and then super sleazy monetization on top of it which we see from full release titles today anyway so it's one of those things I think in terms of price point I I think for me as a part of the show and part of just a creator in general Paragon fan I don't think there's a realistic price point that would turn me away that I wouldn't just buy it be unhappy about it certainly but I don't think there's a realistic price point that would turn me away I do fully expect we're going to see three tiers of price points we're going to see the Paragon release system of twenty dollars sixty dollars and a hundred dollars I would I would bet that that's we're going to see something similar to that come from predecessor in terms of an early access paid early access and the answer question that one thing asked a lot earlier I highly highly doubt that all the heroes will just be free and playable like it was a Paragon you're definitely going to have to unlock them some with in-game currency or by paying for it or something and I could see them being all free and overprime which has a more lack of a way to put it sleazy monetization scheme with the loot box yeah they kind of do yeah right so I could definitely see all heroes are free but skins are loot boxes take your pick right like it's um we don't know that for certain that's just speculation but I could I could see it going that route and I think for predecessor that is also a big thing we have no idea what their monetization looks like at all but they showed a single or maybe two skins the the severed ox skin and the Murdoch skin two or three years ago and that is the most we've seen of a monetization idea from them and so the further we get without that information it almost makes me nervous that I'm like there's a bombshell waiting around the corner of this monetization that like why wouldn't you talk about it earlier right and I get I just talked about people giving me crap on ethereal for talking about skins but still right like I I I think it's gonna be interesting to see what their monetization looks like from the drop of early access yeah I agree I think for me if it's if it's more than $40 I actually might hesitate to purchase until I know for sure what all the other stuff entails like because there there is something to be said about that at least for maybe older guys like me maybe the zoomers won't care but like for me I'm like dude I don't want to buy a game then I have access to the champions I want to play and then also be you know getting bombarded with you know hey you got to buy skins or you got to you know progress through this you know battle pass that you also had to pay $10 for or $20 for whatever if that's the case it's going to put a monetary cost of my time and I don't really want to do that especially especially if OP comes out for free in early access and it's just as much fun to play as maybe predecessor is and I know like you know the super diehard fans the guys who probably put love like and maybe even some that are in the don't cares they will pay whatever price for it they might be the guys buying it at the hundred dollar tier because they just want to be part of that project and support it but I think on the bigger scale to be able to bring in casuals who are not diehards that price point needs to be super ideal and it needs to be very very well marketed in order to really bring in new players especially because if you're just relying on your current you know predecessor cult to you know monetize with you're going to end up with fault issues because that that it's not sustainable it's not enough to be able to make it work with yeah that's my thoughts at least I would be really surprised if the base version for early access was anything more than twenty dollars I think it's worth twenty dollars too I'm gonna put that right out there right now but I'll play a predecessor I think it's worth forty dollars like I think it's worth that price tag but what it but I mean that's my personal opinion with my finances I don't know what everybody else has you know what they got going on but I think I think if they go over twenty dollars I think they're going to see a decline or a lesser return on investment from the player base rather than what they could if they were at the twenty dollar price point but like I said I fully expected that we're going to see three tiers of pricing something lower for entry and then maybe a middle and high version of that so thanks would do I appreciate you I kind of agree with uh Christos he said I wouldn't mind or they said I shouldn't you know assume genders here I wouldn't mind buying a founder's pack that includes all heroes and future heroes um that's something I think is fine like if if the higher tier purchase comes with like you know the battle pass unlocked already or you know something along those lines yeah being able to have access to all the heroes so that would make a lot more sense and I'd probably actually be more okay with paying the forty dollar price tag twenty dollars is just to be able to get into the game and start playing it 100 I think that's probably fine I still think it's a little steep for a game that's not necessarily been proven but I think I'm more okay with that you know like it's not gonna I'm not gonna have to like convince my wife to take out a second loan so I can buy predecessor you know what I mean like I think we're definitely gonna see if they decide to have lock heroes I think we're gonna see almost exactly what Paragon did and that there was a hero pack depending on which pack you bought on early access there was a hero pack in that you got every hero on release and then if you were on the highest tier you got a for the first skin for that hero for free as well um and I had that pack I loved every second of it never had to worry about getting a new character never any of that kind of stuff and always had a skin to use which was super good and that was at 100 bucks so for something like that I could see a higher price point being worth it I hope it's not you get access to the game and you get a battle pass and maybe a couple heroes for 100 bucks I'd rather see it be something more substantial than that what you did was false problem it was just like all the heroes at that time that that that it launched at you got in the season pass was season zero yeah well the season pass was still separate yeah I just mean you got the new heroes via the season sorry I've forgotten that that's where it was included yeah fault they're paidy a pretty bad yeah and they suffer for it and we could I mean let's hope history doesn't repeat itself with the predecessor this this could very well be shooting themselves in the foot just as hard as fault did yep and like we I think we want to have the faith that they're not going to right I would want to venture out that they're not dumb and that they saw you know the failings of the fault launch and don't want to repeat them you know but time will tell obviously we'll find out here soon CK as far as we know we have no idea if they're going to be able to get to console in early access I'm going to throw it out there that it's probably not going to be on EA release if EA at all to get to consoles and that applies to all of these games it is extremely difficult to get a game that is in early access onto the uh consoles marketplace very very very difficult so I wouldn't hold out hope for it yet maybe next year I'm going to read through some of the comments that were left on the uh the post that I made about this um levy v2 paid early access doesn't bother me too much as long as the price is reasonable maybe throw in a cool skin also depends on what the long long-term monitors uh monetary plans are if they keep it paid without adding any loot boxes then I'm even more fine with paid early access but if they go free to play with more predatory loot boxes then paid early access feels pretty bad in my opinion yeah if they had a paid early access and loot boxes because we know with over prime they're they're talking about having a free early access but we also know for a goddamn fact that they have loot boxes so yep yeah and that's that's my concern is there's been no transparency on that front from the predecessor team and even with the the muddying of the waters with paid early access or not from predecessor it makes me further worried for monetization hopefully we'll find out more about their monetization plans going forward when they released when they when they talk about their EA pricing that would be nice to see another one from nerd vibes while I don't personally care for it being a paid early access I'm slightly disappointed at the lack of transparency from omeda as someone who's rooted for this project to do well I'm concerned that locking access to the game behind a paywall will affect its potential player base over prime can catch up can capitalize on this by making their EA free to play since they both seem to be playing chicken with one another but I highly doubt that it'll be the case that being said predecessor's monetization had better be player friendly and not pred inferences atory nice nice pun there I think both these comments really hit the nail on the head like that there's a lot of wiggle room if if done well right like that's the big thing the puns that he was getting in there were but I kind of agree more with the transparency thing I think that's something that we've been kind of like screaming at all these devs to be more transparent with us and like give us more information so we can not just be guessing you know at shadows but again they're obviously able to do whatever they want I do worry again same concept that people are mentioning in chat that you know the competition between the two studios that are going to be releasing probably around the same time once free once not what is that really going to do when we all talk about all the time how important it is that the player base for these games is massive it needs to be huge and it needs to be huge quick and sustainable for for a long time in order to be considered a success and putting a dollar in front of that makes that a lot harder it's going to be difficult for friends to convince other friends like I would have a hard time convincing people that aren't part of this group to play predecessor if they have to pay 20 to 40 dollars for it when they're already limited with time they're not even sure they're gonna like the game you know all those red flags or you know road bumps start to come up in front it makes it difficult to want to preach the value of the game when there's a price tag in front of it versus like an overprime which despite the predatory loot boxes which we all hate we do hate them it's free another comment here this one cracked me up quite a bit from Robert Jones I can't do this paragon early access cycle too many more times yep I mean I've already gone through with the default before times a paragon game has entered the early access cycle yeah yep and then we got go con personally I used to be a lot more heated about playing a paragon clone but after years and delays I don't think I would pay for an EA especially if one of them op and pred became free I'm definitely not mad but I can't say I don't care as well lastly I don't think name an EA game without paid access doesn't make much sense in this case because you already got paid with millions of dollars worth of assets what a great point right there yeah these games are cheaper to develop than most other games because of like a majority that budget that goes to making a game is making the assets to create the game and they haven't had to pay that they got all that for free from epic and I wouldn't say that the assets are worth shit without the programming either right right like that's it is important to notate no I think it's important to say that because I don't want to come back out I know a hundred percent it is I I think it's great that you're saying I'm laughing because I remember how you and I were literally playing fault when that was going through and we're like what I think I stopped mid like doing something in game and just was flabbergasted and it just was yeah no I'm glad you said it just wasn't expecting you to say it again no they the epic is putting out there that they put out millions of dollars worth of assets for a reason one it's a tax break for them which is fantastic but to say that like they're worth nothing without your stuff there is just false you absolutely benefited from the fact that these assets were made free and open to you even if implementation was still something you had to do right like that's that hands down huge huge last line there from him talking about that they have already been paid with millions of dollars of free assets yeah not only that but somewhat free marketing because yep you're capitalizing on the nostalgia of a game that was already that's already been around you have an in place player base you're saying they're capitalizing on nostalgia man goose without the paradigm name how this fucking thing this fucking guy um was there one more okay uh buyer more to po i don't really care as long as it's no more than 1999 if it's more than that i won't be pleased so again like i said most people just seem to be concerned about the price more than that it's paid early access yeah and i think that's the biggest you know probably the biggest concern itself and and the reasoning for why they're doing it like it it just i think with fault there was an argument that they could make that hey we're a single small studio with no other backers we need the money to be able to develop the game that you guys have been asking for we want to try and make the game the best that we can despite all the things that they failed to do right that's that's on them i feel like predecessor doesn't have that same excuse to the community now the a good portion of the community probably gonna you know forgive them for that regardless but i don't think they have the same ground to stand on that fault did they're not they're not in the same position that fault was you know like fault absolutely was funded by us the players by buying early access you know the game made it this far in two years because of that early access purchase predecessors got the money to go regardless of early access money and i do think it's a little bit i don't know what the word is but i i think there's something to be said there that they maybe need to own up for and it will be interesting to see how they you know cross that bridge because uh it does feel a little stingy or greedy maybe because you know what's for the they gotta pay those investors back though i mean i think the big thing is honestly for how hard they've been pushing like we got more money from investors right they put out multiple posts about it they talk about it right and then they're saying but we need your money still right and that's the disconnect right the first time they announced investors that was a huge play that that added some legitimacy to them fine past that why do they keep pushing the fact that they're getting more money from investors what that they're closing more funding that they're doing these things because that i think that to me is where it rubs me the wrong way is you're pushing so hard about like we've gotten all this money look at how great we are but we need your money too and that just feels bad like it just i i understand from a business standpoint but as a consumer when you're rubbing it in our face that you keep getting this money and then you're asking me for mine that feels bad yep i think it's important to say too that there's been nothing official from pred saying that it's going to be a paid early access like that what i would say that they've told us what early access isn't paid they confirmed you like you were saying with ruba earlier if you want that to potentially change since there has not been a formal announcement you need to make your voice heard you need to tell them that you're unhappy with it you don't like that there's going to be paid ea yeah and maybe that does something i i get where you're coming from the pit the announcement hasn't been made but they have told us that that's the plan right so before that announcement is made now's the time to do something about it if you really are unhappy about it and they've said it in their discord too like when people have been asking about this they've said you know you don't have early access without being paid like like that's the thing they keep saying like you don't expect in this day and age that early access is not paid that's pretty much the only real confirmation they'll get they they dance around it quite a bit they don't make anything official saying that it's paid or not paid but about 95 percent certain that it's going to be a paid early access yep and i think that's part of it but stop dancing around the question right either make a formal announcement so you can stop dancing around the question or just be willing to put your money where your mouth is and say yes as of right now we are planning on having a paid early access even if it's not a full announcement when people ask say something about it because the more cagey you are the more you dance around it the worse it feels like just be forward about it it just feels odd whenever they're dancing around questions like that all right that's about all i had for pay d a you guys got anything else for pay d a i think no not really not not directly tied to pay pay d a but i want to talk to predecessors community for a minute here in that when the overprime announcement went out i was in the predecessor discord because i was curious to see what the reactions were to that announcement and i was bouncing between all the discords um and some statements were made that the predecessor community doesn't want paragon that it doesn't matter that overprime got the paragon name because we didn't want paragon and it's like that to me is just like no you do want paragon that's why you're here if you didn't want paragon you would have moved on to another game you wouldn't be following successor projects right you wouldn't be they wouldn't be using your nostalgia for paragon to bring you into a different game right so to say and we've also said many times that predecessor is the most similar to paragon so also to say you don't want paragon but you want predecessor is also a bit of a weird double standard there and i think it's just one of those things you it's okay to say you want paragon it's okay for the other companies to be successful or to make a cool announcement it's okay for other things to happen it does not necessarily mean that someone's infringing on what your what you prefer what you want and i i think it's just i i made this analogy to mangoose and viking of it felt like it was a little kid who got their favorite toy taken away right that they they were in there playing with their toy it gets taken away from them and they go well that was a dumb toy anyway and like go walk up out and walk away and it's just like why like it just doesn't make sense it's just unnecessary you you are allowed to be upset that somebody else did it and your game didn't but there's no reason to like suddenly put off well we didn't want paragon anyway so whatever dude like it just is too much like come on guys we were talking about this today the the fans for for each and every one of those these games at some point have been cult like and it's always whenever whenever one of them releases something major like overprime getting the rights to paragon and the logo is a major change yep so predecessor fans are rabid and defending the shit out like they're going overprime they're going overboard white knighting for pred and and fucking going toxic avenger on overprime but we've seen the same from overprime fans too in the past we've seen them just absolutely rabid going after anything predecessor is done um we've seen core fans going absolutely rabid on anything predecessor is done um when fault was actually popular but way back when it was when it first got up and running fault fans were just you know going off predecessor fans were going after them the fans for these games need to just fucking chill out you don't have to put somebody else down to push yourself up you need to understand that overprime getting this name change is good for predecessor it's going to bring more recognition to all the projects as a whole like and i love i don't get the animosity i loved to see ranger in the overprime discord saying i hope we're not saying bad things about predecessors yeah mm-hmm that was absolutely massive you have a core developer of your game saying hey that's unnecessary yep perfect i think that is exactly what all of these need to be doing yeah and and it's just i think that's a great way to handle it of there's no reason to be putting these other games down right there they're cool too right like they're you're allowed to have two cool things exist at the same time at the end of the day one will prove cooler than the other or better or more stable or whatever it's going to be or maybe they both survive it doesn't matter like it's just it's okay for them to have a change you don't need to shit all over it because they did i yeah i could yeah i agree 100 percent obviously i think i've been saying this for a while i think it's really really weird when anyone gets like all up in arms over a dev studio like they don't know you bro like you're not here they're not you it just doesn't make any sense like you're not that i could somewhat somewhat understand fault only because it's currently out it's a game you can actually play if you're really invested like you put time you put money into fault and you want to see it succeed you maybe have a little bit more skin in the game that's fine but the overprime and predecessor guys like if you're just going into other forums or you're doing talking shit and twitter or doing whatever it's just cringy and it's just you're basing yourself like why like none of these games are going to be better because you're going around talking shit about the other game like just let the games be that speak for themselves if they're good people will play it if they're dog shit they're not going to get played if they have predatory monetization they might not you know be as successful as they should as it is already without all of this negativity surrounding these games have a huge uphill battle to become successful we've already seen it with fault that it's not just so much as putting out a paragon like game and then immediately coming into success it takes so much more and it's going to take a lot for these studios with all the money and backing that they already have to be able to realistically compete in this market and they might still fail so just leave your negativity at home man just like just don't you don't need to do that who cares relax and people in chat are even talking about rangers even in the predecessor discord that he talks in there all the time and i even after the announcement i saw ranger in there right and like that's that's cool to see right that's cool to see like even in grants like i said ethereal is not at the same level as the other games at the moment but even when i go into these other discords and i start typing messages i either get recognized from here or i get recognized from ethereal right and either way i know that that's there are people that are like whoa jellies here like that's a cool thing even in the other places because we can show support for these games it doesn't it doesn't need to be that your game has to be the best and all the others have to be put down and i think that's we just need to get rid of that i will say smoky has been really good in the past too of just interacting really well with with the other uh with the other teams um that i mean their devs could do it why can't the fans do it it's just that's such a an indicator too that is like such a if you see like one one games fans losing their fucking mind with toxicity it means that one of the other games did something that's probably pretty god damned important and successful you know what i mean mm-hmm i think stunts point here is perfect people confuse creative criticism with being toxic and they don't know the difference right yeah i think that's very true i agree with it 100 that's even even when i was talking in the predecessor discord after the announcement i was trying really hard not to to just like be pouring fuel on the fire right like i wanted to have a conversation with these people right and it's and it's hard right but take some taking the extra two seconds can go a long way with of helping promote your game and the community of your game without being toxic you know who's the most toxic you well by proxy maybe console man the console kids i have to bring it up because it was in the predecessor announcement when they put out their stuff about the servers and everything like that it was like there's like two parties that was like the super fanboys yes this is the best news ever and they're just jerking themselves off for this news and then you had the console kids who were just like how come you're not gonna announcing stuff for console it's a console game first they just it's the end going off the console players again listen console boys like i get you want the game to come to console like i i said this earlier in this in broadcast and i say it almost every freaking week dude going to early access is so hard on these these platforms for console it is so fucking difficult man give the devs a break on your console win listen it's it's not it's not like it was when paragon first came out the gaming sphere has changed a lot the place in which this game success isn't just going to be coming from console will it come from console absolutely at some point but that's so far in the future i just yeah i don't know man pc is going to be the main focus though just get it through your heads chill out it's so weird i'm sorry i love that i just watched bangers read a very specific message in chat and then freak out for a moment well what did he what what did he oh that sarah jog looks weird oh yeah oh man so good oh jeez and then two uh to to add to kind of add to that like the another thing you see a lot too is people asking for the specific date of launch like when is this game coming out and you tell them soon or tell them this year and they flip out like why the fuck can we get like a date okay and we're talking about overzealous fans core made above and core had the by far the most overzealous fans and they pushed so fucking hard and and made above put out a date they put out a date for their first initial alpha they missed that date and they fucking never showed back and they died you can't put you can't set a date that far out because there's unforeseen things can happen covid can happen you know what i mean like like nobody saw that shit coming um like things happen so you can't put out a date and then miss it because that looks way worse than just not releasing the date until like a month out you know what i mean it's okay i'm not i'm not saying that i don't think the console is going to be an important addition to these games and having crossplay and all that stuff we saw what it did for fortnite we saw what it did for um all these games overwatch like a lot of these games that are competitive games especially competitive online games having a healthy console presence is important i'm not discounting that i just i think it's just maybe it's because in recent years like this whole like idea of the pc master race has made the console kids feel like the the like forgotten middle child or something like that and the gaming sphere that like unless you have like you know a five thousand dollar streaming rig with a bunch of lights behind you and you know in a sound studio and the crazy fancy chairs and all that stuff that you're not a real gamer and so that's either like on the extra defensive or something i don't know i'm not speaking about anyone in particular yeah no clearly not no no no no yeah it's fine what i'll just say is that you're not real gamers and i am okay perfect thank you thank you i'm here i just i don't know man i i do agree that it is important that they come to console i just don't think it's it's realistic to keep bombarding these devs with console when when they're not even out on early access yet and the likelihood that they go to early access on console is very slim to none like there's triple a studios that struggle to get their games and beta or early access onto these stores so yeah sorry and a cat tree all right uh i think that's about it for tonight let's guys have anything else thank you stunt money well spent bud i stunt did you guys have any questions what we're gonna start wrapping it up so if you guys have any questions in the chat let us know right now stunt next time you need a pc to watch ftm just let me know you send me the five grand and i'll send you back something that'll work i promise um i do want to touch on fault very briefly and i don't want it to be like a rant or anything i just want to provide information about them that i've noticed uh one thing is that they it's been a month since they're over a month since their last patch and there's not been basically any news they did the iggy and scorch contest after that but past that there's not been any news out of them looking into the steam uh api as well they have not even updated their developer branch of the game in that same amount of time so it's not like they're testing something in the background that we just haven't heard from from what i can see with what's publicly available to me there has been no movement on the game in the last month which has me worried about what's going on like it seems like there should be at least some communication of what's to come and not a month of almost silence yeah i just i just completely dropped them from ftm for the last two weeks because they just haven't had anything and i didn't want to just sit here and talk shit about fault for a half an hour so i'm gonna sophisticated care what's fault everybody jump in the jungler that's what fault is is it's always the jungler's fault yeah i mean i still kind of feel bad for fault i mean i i think that you know the despite sometimes their best intentions and efforts they just continue to stumble um i do i think what mangu said earlier about fault was probably one of the most i think one of the most poignant things to mention about them like they've been around for two plus years now trying to give people a paragon like game to play not always successfully so i we're not we're not discounting that but it's there you can all right now the servers are live you can log in and play some of your favorite heroes that you miss from back in the day and it's free to play so you can just download it whether that's on the epic store or on on steam might wait 10 to 15 minutes to get into a queue but you can play against ai bots and all kinds of other stuff i i it is a disappointment i know for a lot of people who put a lot of time and effort into fault but um i don't know maybe they have something coming out soon maybe they are doing what jelly knees told them to do and wait until one of these other games do something and then he's gonna release they're gonna release a bunch of fucking content i said content they're holding content to do that yeah that's what i'm saying announcements and communication that's like saying falter board i don't like dc dc comics like the dc universe i hate dc there we go i keep and keep reading what am i looking for here is there's something that it says you throw an i and a k in there yeah then you love it then you love dc nah gotcha all right well that is uh not gonna wrap it up for tonight there's a weird buzzing on my mic yeah there is again oh weird okay oh sorry guys i actually went away and then it came back and then yeah i don't know i don't know i actually love consoles i have a console i have all all three consoles so but i just i think it's weird that the console guys get so up in arms the console what are you calling the uh console cult we have the pred cult cult of the consoles all right um but yeah we're gonna we're gonna close it out for tonight biking anything any final words anything to plug oh goodness um i mean it's same as last week we do the anime show on thursday super fun um you know i don't always have the most to say on there but uh it's really really fun getting to talk about anime and learn about new anime so if that's something that you guys are into mangoose hosts an anime podcast with a few me and a few other guys so feel free to check that out um follow me on twitter and um you can sub to me here on youtube if you'd like to same name the viking jedi eventually once these games are into early access i do plan on streaming them with the boys um so you know if that sounds like something that you might enjoy feel free to uh to sit up and come and hang out i'd love to see you there might be scuffed scuff viking stream but we'll be there anyway they all are no it's fun joanies um nothing very basically similar to viking of that once these games come out i'm excited to stream them and play them more consistently um but the i guess the only real thing i have to plug is go to the facebook instagram youtuber twitter for ethereal go look at our recent post about the empress malaya skin give it a like give it a comment whatever those things are on all those places um it helps push us out there but it's also just cool to see that people are seeing these posts which is cool what about you as a mangoose mangoose i guess i'll plug the the adb stream again uh thursday's this week we're going to be talking about rising of the shield hero what was good about what was bad about it what could be improved about it just a whole discussion on one anime we're going to try and narrow our focus a little bit instead of drifting so far like we've done in the past but anyway that is going to wrap it up for this week appreciate everybody coming out for the live stream appreciate you watching this if you're watching it in video format but uh that is going to be the four of the minion crew signing off you guys have a good one and then i'll awkwardly wait while i find the scene for the outro mangoose special shout out to channel members i blood hunter blastoise king raven me i'll mix for men is clorox tv joshua ben noctis stunt actual dez soul reaper j-man 63 levy version two damper dice and lionheart official


All right, let's do this Cool, right automated testing made easy with Cypress IO All right, let's start With me. This is me. I'm Sam. This is me This is how I look on a holiday. That was last week in Portugal time of my life needed some sun You can always follow me on these whoa You can always follow me on these links I'm not a very social person on social media, but you can always try to contact me if you like I work for smart passion pension and we are hiring Much better conditions than Right, what is Cypress First thing I thought when I heard of it Cypress Hill right can't go wrong there or is it an island somewhere in Washington? Yes, there is an island in Washington called Cypress, and it's not the Greek like island no What is Cypress? Cypress IO These slides are going way fast and I cool Cypress is it Is a testing tool entirely written in JavaScript? Which helps developers with automated tests for the web It's often compared to Selenium, which is very very different I have worked with automated testing tools before with a cucumber test suite written in ruby with the Selenium web driver And I had a whole bunch of problems with this before him in the past I'm pretty sure that you guys that most of you people already heard of of Selenium and most of you probably have worked with it as well There were always a whole bunch of problems setting it up is hard Ready or test is slow the test suite doesn't have a knowledge of states just to recap Just to recap Testing is just too hard now Many people have had the same problems I have many people have had these issues and so did Brian Mann This is Brian Mann just to make sure this is Brian Mann He took it upon himself to fix this problem Because he he had most of these problems that many other developers had So he actually went to the community and he asked the question to the community of developers What are the biggest testing challenges you want to have solved and He actually sent it out into the world and he got a lot of replies It must be easy to use Tooling that is fast Testing across browser is painful and so on and so on and so on right now thousands and thousands of messages came back and This is obviously a massive problem to solve. You cannot just solve it overnight The first problem that we see here is Selenium Selenium is a tool which was was first released in 2004. So it's quite an old tool It has been going through some optimizations over the years and eventually turned out into web driver Now we have this tool yet still a lot of people struggle with this so the first thing that we need to think about is Web evolution the web is change evolving all the time old web applications were stateless We had full page reloads Now in the old days that was fine That was that was okay The second thing is it used to be all synchronous The old applications in all days that was fine and everything used to be synchronous and for these applications Selenium was fine now Nowadays the applications use most asynchronous code almost everything now is asynchronous and our browser keeps a whole bunch of states and the fact remains is that well first of all for state a stateless code and Synchronous code Selenium is absolutely fine. You can you can use Selenium without any problems now Selenium is a is a stateless HTTP API So that means once we are using states. We are just lost and This is basically impossible to test a state is Stateful application with a stateless machine. You cannot you cannot do that. There are many hacks and you can try to solve it But it's basically kind of unfixable Now another problem is speed Selenium is slow No comments. That's just a fact. That's a given fact and then my favorite of all Debugging I was completely stunned now just so everybody's aware. I am not a q-air I have some experience with Selenium, but I was never really involved So I didn't really go through all of these pains that much, but I heard them all around me now This is quite amazing. This was for me the top. So the Chrome is going to be automated by the Chrome driver now The Chrome driver uses the same debugger uses the debugger protocol Now your dev tools use the same debugger protocol So the debugger HTTP protocol.   That just blew my mind We will get there right Solving all these problems is not an easy task, but Brian Mann took it upon himself to leave Selenium aside and build a fully new thing from the ground up and He wanted this to be to be able to work with the modern application So for two and a half years He has been working really really hard and then after two and a half years He just that he just did what he wanted to do He created Cyprus IO Right. This was the whole speech talk. I am pretty sure that everybody wants to see what it is rather than know the history So let's have a quick look. Let's see if this works Of course, that's not gonna work. Okay, cool. So we just go into your application You just yarn at Cyprus to your dev or you can use MPM install And this will install the software for you If you look in the folder structure, it only adds your node modules package adjacent and your own the yarn.loc file Just simple application now Now we have this application we can run the yarn yarn has a special command to run now.  Anyway, I think I have to go play here When you run the application When you run yarn, which is in your node modules bin Cyprus open It will actually take control of your computer and open some kind of software and as you can see it has a whole bunch of files in there Now when I opened it, it actually created a whole bunch of files for me So now if I go to look at look again in the directory Now I can see there is a Cyprus folder with fixtures integration plug-in support and a whole bunch of tests When I opened at the initial time now when I was making this presentation I had to do it a few times to record the video and this only pops up once So I had to do it on a different machine to get the thing But it actually tells you it's gonna create a whole bunch of stuff for you when you click Okay, it just generates those files. That's it. It's actually pretty interesting because what it actually is The integration test the example is actions aliasing Assertions all this kind of stuff and I was wondering what it actually is. So basically it helps you to to get started That was too fast Okay, let's try this again Cool structure Better cool. So the default test in action when you run the default tests. It's actually running tests on the Cyprus IO website and just Asserting a whole bunch of functionality on that actual website and I'll give you a quick example of this So I just aliased the open command There is opening the UI and if you click on one of the tests I click on the actions test It will run will open a browser and will actually run the test for you so these tests are actually gonna go to The actions to the actual URL and God is gonna do a whole bunch of assertion for you It's actually going through the actual live website from Cyprus Which is pretty amazing Cool. So this was my first Experience with Cyprus now. I'm gonna do a quick sales speech Not really a sales speech but on the Cyprus IO website. There was a really cool video That I just want to show you what the capacity capacity of Cyprus can actually do now Also, I do not get paid at all for this speech I just think it's an amazing tool and I just want other people to know about this tool. So Let's have a look This is the actual website And I hope we can get some sound Cyprus is an open-source test runner built for the modern web It makes setup writing running and recording tests much simpler easier and faster than ever before Whether you're testing the various login states of your application Or complex drag-and-drop operations that you've seen on web apps and Trello boards You can easily wait for dynamic content to load Or make sure things look good on mobile responsive views With Cyprus you have much more control over your application and can write tests in a way that was not possible for today You can programmatically control UI widgets like tree views and multi-selects As well as waiting for the results of an autocomplete to finish You can even step out network requests to control how the responses are returned This means you can easily test edge cases such as when no results are returned or test What happens if your server is down? As you write commands Cyprus executes them in real time providing you with visual feedback as they run Commands are interactive. So as we hover over them Cyprus time travels back to the application state when this command ran When clicking on a command we receive helpful debugging output to our console and based on the type of command And oftentimes interact with them There's so much more that Cyprus can do so we hope that you'll check out our docs and getting started videos We'll explain how to install Write your first tests and go into much more detail about how Cyprus is different from any other testing tool You've ever seen before Right, so that was a sales speech. I just think it's an amazing tool now That was my impression is it but now the question is Is it really that awesome? Yeah, I went too fast, but Yes, it is It is actually amazing when I first saw this This software popping up I actually sneaked it into our code base without anybody knowing and made it available to a few people Now we have a new Engineering manager who is a bit annoyed that this got into the code base because people like it a lot and people are like Oh, can we please use it? Can we use it? Obviously, we have this massive repository and we do automatic deployment So that also means once we run our tests or once you add test to your repository, you're potentially doing deployment now With Cyprus, that's not not needed. So what I did this week literally this week I created a new repository moved all the tests to a different repository and anybody can write tests wherever they want because this Is not inside your application it can be but it doesn't have to be now What I like the most about Cyprus is that it's completely written in JavaScript. I don't have to learn a new language I know JavaScript already plus it's it's very self-explanatory and it's using tools that we already know so Cyprus bundles the popular Chai assertions as You can see here. So we have BDD assertions Expect name not to to not equal Jane very simple We have TDD assertion assert is okay. Everything. Everything is okay There are the there is the Chai jQuery plugin which comes by default and We have the Synon Chai as well on top of that Chai allows you to to customize it. So you can write your own testing ways Inside there it's just extremely easy Right, so I have In a previous talk created a static page was a static blog And obviously it's a number meet-up. So I wanted to at least have something about ember to talk to so what I've done is I have taken that that PR and I actually integrated my Cyprus and I created some tests and I'm just just want to show you these tests running and just quick explanation what we are doing there So this is my ember static site I'm just gonna run Ember So in this case, I need to start my server because I'm gonna test them on my local host Which is absolutely fine. You could potentially swap it out for a real URL as you saw in the video It will just load it from there In the meantime, I'm gonna open Cyprus My laptop is running on full power because of recording. I think right. So here we go. We have the ember static site And I created a happy path spec. This will open my browser We'll visit my URL and I will do a whole bunch of assertions on my static blog Yeah, so the streaming is a bit slow I think But basically what it's doing is it's clicking on certain buttons asserting if all the elements in the page have to be are there If not, it will give us an error and this is the last one that contact me it will fill in the form This is by the way, not my real telephone number There are also a few I mean this tool is amazing. This tool is so big you can do so many things with it You can have a slope slow typing you can do a copy paste you can speed it up as much as you want You can have the real behavior So you can test your debouncers all of this kind of stuff is there as well So what I like the most about this software is what you guys did not see in the beginning So it's still running for the last test Cannot show snapshot while running test So what you can do is you can go back in time at this point and it takes snapshots of everything it done You can see Where what happened and you can open your debugger you can open your console You can see everything what what's happening there My computer I think is frying up. So this is normally going much faster and better any questions. Yeah Yes, so you can restart a test on just here, sorry here So the page will fail because I did not implement a callback for my form So I just want to show you as well if the test fail It will tell you exactly where it filled and how it failed The reload works there This is also connected up with live reload so if I am writing my test if I change anything in my test file It will automatically reload to the test suite as well. You can run tests a step by step now the most amazing part is that you can actually go back and see what it's doing and What you probably have not noticed is at some point. I tested the responsiveness of this thing So I visit the URL and I change the viewport and I do a whole bunch of assertions on that viewport I'm basically looking for the menu bar here So This tool is is so big. It's fast. It's easy to use it runs almost every machine It has its own built-in CLI it has its own hosting service and Most of all best of all is completely free. It's open source So if you want to download this and write all your tests yourself you can run it Locally you can run on your own server. You can run it basically on any CI or you can use the CI from From Cypress themselves they host it for you They have a whole platform you can run tests there and that's where the pricing comes in So you you can pay for it if you're if you're really interested and you really want to host this Completely following their rules. You can do that. Otherwise, you can just run it locally Right going back Cool. So if you want to see some resources, I stole most of this talk from a video I saw on YouTube. I'm not gonna lie about that But hey at least now you guys know about it. So yeah, do check this out I'm not saying that selenium is the worst thing in the world, but do have a lookout for this software so thank you very much and We are still hiring