Okay so maybe like 20% and are those are any of those in production of what you would consider like a pilot or production pilot? Okay so more experimentation. There's plenty of production. Oh okay I missed that. Thanks Jim too. Okay all right so a lot as the panelists are really part of the communities that open source communities that are driving this I think one thing that the voice we don't have represented is are the enterprise requirements so I think maybe towards the end of the panel it'd be great to open it up for some dialogue where we can hear from you what you'd like to see and maybe after you learn a little bit more about the respective communities you'll have a better sense of what you might want to ask the panelists so I think we can are you guys going to sit? You're welcome to stand. So I mean I was reflecting hyperledger basically was born in December of 2015 although didn't have the name hyperledger at the time so we're about like almost seven years in and I think in the early days a lot of it was just about you know which layer one are you using and there were a lot of debates about which one's better and I think now the industry's come to realizing it's a multi-chain world people are far along enough that they use different protocols and they're thinking about connecting them they have applications that might want to talk to different apps we actually for those of you who are members had really good sessions yesterday where there was a chance of members to say what they're looking for going forward on interop and hybrid so I encourage anyone next year to come to that and if you're not a member to consider one that's one of the benefits is to get sort of the inside scoop and to be able to share there was much more interactive dialogue versus this panel which would be mostly just hearing from the leaders of these communities but I did want to start just with introduction so Rama if you wanted to go first and I just introducing myself I'm Sophia Lopez one of the founders of Kaleido which is a Web3 infrastructure platform and we're very active with Hyperledger Firefly okay great hi I'm Rama I'm a maintainer on the viewer last project so just a bit of history I've been with IBM research for over 11 years now I've been working with Hyperledger technologies since the inception of the project I was sort of a beta tester for what used to be called open blockchain which involved into Hyperledger fabric and since then I've been working on different kind of solutions I worked on Hyperledger fabric performance measurement actually not limited to fabric but fabric was our main focus and since the end of 2018 I've been focused on the interoperability goal that is given that we have all these permissioned networks that are out there and so many varieties of DLTs they're not all going away so how do the all these networks coexist because we are not going to have one network to rule them all we're not going to have all networks coalesce into one so how do you make them how do you make these networks and these different DLTs work together and what exactly does that mean what is the value add that we need to provide which is crucial to growing the blockchain ecosystem so hello I'm Takuma Takeuchi I'm a maintainer of Hyperledger characters I'm also a belonging of Fujitsu Fujitsu as a blockchain research manager yeah so so so I'm I'm working as a maintainer for two two years and so with the with the activity of the development of Hyperledger characters in blockchain interoperability so I like to accelerate the block art so token economy token economy technology beyond across beyond the various industry industry field yeah nice to meet you my name is Jim Zhang one of the co-founders of Kaleido before starting Kaleido I was a committer on Hyperledger fabric now I'm one of the maintainers on Firefly also a member of the Hyperledger technical steering committee I think today we're going to focus on interop which is one of the things that Firefly can be used for but Firefly is a a bigger project that covers a lot of integration concerns and connecting to blockchains to have high quality developer experience we can touch on those as we go along yeah actually I think Jim that's a great segue to one of the first questions that we all wanted to cover which is what is the difference between integration and interoperability when you're looking at decentralized networks and web three solutions okay I guess I have the mac I can get started well you touched upon that when you were a description of what you're doing yeah yeah so when we work with with our customers we started Kaleido as a platform we started with the blockchain layer to make sure it's very easy to stand up blockchains of all kinds of protocols but then very quickly we realized that our customers when they build the full solution on blockchain the blockchain itself is just 10 percent the rest of the 90 percent they have to have a queue to send transactions reliably they have to have a event listener to to get events from the chain reliably so they can coordinate the off-chain reactions to events on chain so a blockchain is not going to be a component that stands alone from the rest of the IT systems it needs to have ingestion of data from from the rest of the IT systems and when certain events happen on blockchain there needs to be oftentimes there there needs to be reactions in the rest of the IT systems so between blockchain and the rest of the core IT that concern is mostly categorized as integration so blockchain can work with everything else around them interop is mostly around between blockchains so you have one fabric doing doing let's say tracking trades for your supply chain when it moves to a certain stage you want to do payment on a separate network maybe running on ethereum using tokens to do payment so those two transactions need to happen in the atomic way and that's about interacting interactions between two chains so that's interop so if you picture in your head a two-layer sort of picture one is you have all kinds of blockchains and you have arrows going across them that's interop but then you have your app layer that talks to one or two or many of the blockchains and from between the app and the blockchains and between the app and your core IT that's firefly I'm sure the others will have other yeah what is cactus's approach to interoperability so so that so in so among the among the cactus development so I think it is more it is important is to the so about so the blockchain diversity so the so as you know so the not not only the ethereum fiber ethereum of fabric there are a lot of there are many types of blockchain for example the hybrid india this is so dedicated blockchain for identity management and also for example a high pressure ill heart this is so dedicated blockchain for cdbc asset so so in order to so the unifying so the the api for the heterogeneous blockchain so the I think it is you it is important to design and code calls the the abstract abstract feature to this api yeah okay and then Rama what just explained to the audience so cactus was a contribution from Fujitsu and Accenture and now Rama you are part of weaver so I was curious what weaver's approach was to interoperability and now weaver and cactus have combined and it's cacti so maybe you could comment on that as well so one is interoperability to weaver and then what does it mean that these two communities are coming together from a cross-chain perspective sure I'll begin with your original question to Jim about the difference between integration and oh yeah okay yeah so I see it as there's a spectrum of solutions so at its core interoperability to me means the ability to for two or more blockchain systems to be able to come together and communicate and talk to each other in a way that can solve a purpose that requires all those systems to work together so that in the mode is my most general definition of interoperability now how how tight you want those blockchain systems to get or how loosely coupled you want them to be that's a choice you can make so I think there's spectrum solutions you can have that the closer they get you can think of it as you're integrating two different blockchain systems the more loosely coupled you get you can think of it as a somewhat more independent kind of interoperability between the systems so the weaver approach tries to go as close to the independent end of spectrum as possible so our core design principles involve uh if you have your blockchain network it's built on a particular DLT stack be it fabric or Bezu or any technology outside of haphazard like Corda you run your applications as you would you do not have to change your stack we will not go and ask fabric to change its code we will not go and ask Corda to change its code but we will provide the enablers that allow you to perform transactions that require some kind of cross-chain or cross-network operation and we have a particular taxonomy of such operations we categorize them into the ability to share data from one smart contract in one ledger to a different smart contract in a different ledger there's the ability to exchange assets or to conduct an atomic swap and then there's the ability to transfer an asset from one ledger to another that is you burn an asset in a ledger and recreate it in another so collectively we uh our observation was that this sort of covers almost all of the cases you want in real production grade enterprise application which involves more than one blockchain so this is what interoperability means to us the ability to conduct cross-network transactions across different ledgers but allowing the networks to remain autonomous and retain their own self-governance policies okay and then just the final one i was curious for you to round out with is just weaver coming together a cactus form a cacti so what do you what do you feel that means for those communities with respect to like interop in the roadmap there sure so just a brief history i think takuma already referred to this and i think you've you've heard the history in presentations if you were here yesterday and also i think today cactus started in the early 2020 in the last hyperledge global forum and it's been an open source project for more than two and a half years now we were started off as as an IBM research project in 2019 and we published research papers on it for about a year and a half going to two years and then we open sourced it as a lab project in the end of q1 of last year and the philosophies of the two projects are quite related we we both aim for the design principles that i just articulated and there are some differences in the technical approach but they broadly fall under the spectrum that i talked about so the goal of bringing the two projects together was one we aim to achieve the same thing but by bringing the two projects together we can provide a spectrum of features that you as network developers or administrators can use you can pick and choose from a set of features and then you can use a common platform that will be that that we are going to create which will through the merge between cactus and we were and that way you can engineer your networks to conduct transactions across across each other great thanks maybe start go back to jim now so jim just to help the audience he's probably wondering there's all these projects we're hearing about you know how would you differentiate when it would be useful to work with firefly community on projects versus the new combined cacti community yeah absolutely so i'd say firefly you want to use firefly for every project you have a blockchain component in because it just makes it much easier to uh to interact with blockchain so but it's it's not fair because we're we want to focus on the interop so with in if interop is your concern firefly can still help you because a single firefly instance can be connected to multiple blockchains it's very easy in fact i think it was announced in the previous sessions that we just released one dot one which has a very significant enhancement compared to one oh is you have a single instance that can be connected to multiple chains on the per namespace basis which means what you can do within your application layer with firefly is you can coordinate among multiple blockchain so you can listen to event in your fabric chain with the track and trace using that example so when the event triggers that says this this batch of goods has arrived at its destination then you can do the corresponding payment on the other chain so with firefly this just makes it very simple to do of course if you you ask the interop experts they will say this is one mode of interop which is going through a trusted third party or a trusted off-chain component which you know is depending on your needs can be a fair option for you to choose and firefly is pretty easy to to build on top of to achieve this type of architecture and i'll let the others comment on other modes of interop and why you might use cacti for yeah so takuma maybe some use cases for cacti and any if there's any in production or you'd want to share as part of that yeah so this is not production ready but so uh this is uh some uh so uh so uh so uh so uh uh i i i am using of cacti cacti now new name cacti for the climate change action so this is so uh so uh the p you are our for this is p o c we saw the i h i this is so japanese heavy heavy industry company so the uh so this is so uh so cacti cacti has a role of the connector between so the uh so uh the carbon carbon accounting so uh laser and so the uh and the environmental uh value laser yeah so uh so uh for uh so so you know what so yeah so this is one of the use case of the uh so the uh the yeah the climate change yeah thank you okay so an esg type use cases and roma anything you'd want to add in terms of use cases or just approaches i think jim mentioned one approach to interoperability if you want to add any any other sort of patterns of deployment that you're saying sure uh i mentioned the three broad interoperability modes earlier data sharing asset exchanges asset transfers one use case i'll talk about is something you can uh you can read about it's uh so we were last year was used by uh bank of france and hsbc in a in a set of use cases which involved experimentation on central bank digital currency so what the scenario involved was you had uh different networks they were one of them was built in fabric another was built in corda and uh we were doing different kinds of transactions across them so there was one network which maintained securities another which maintained cpdc accounts and uh a natural use case there was if you're paying for if you want to sell a security on one network on securities network you want to get payment but where will you get the payment on the uh digital currency network so you need the ability to do an atomic swap across the two networks so you can just have a security getting transferred in one network and without any guarantee that the payment will happen on the other so engineering across network transaction using a trust worthy protocol is important and with we were we have such an asset exchange protocol using the htlc mechanism which many of you may have heard of if not uh i'll be talking about it in a presentation on we were tomorrow uh then there were other instances where you had to uh these networks were doing coupon redemptions uh for which they needed to communicate uh ledger state or some records in one ledger to a different ledger so they use the we were in a what we call the data sharing mode which is where you uh one from one ledger you can make a request to another and the uh requestee provides not just the data but also authenticity proof that the record was uh that the record is uh valid and was committed in a uh in a previous transaction and the receiving network can then get the data and then validate that the proof is uh uh accurate so uh these were several cases that were uh uh successfully demonstrated in that poc last year and uh yeah i think i'll uh maybe we can touch on other topics later okay um anyone else want to add any other use cases just going to open it up before okay yeah um use cases that involve cross-chain there are a ton of them and we continue to see more and more uh earlier in my session talking about technology adoptions in recent years i was very encouraged to see that uh a whole bunch of advanced technologies that when i built the chart for i thought those are bleeding edge but when i asked the audience are you doing these everybody well for every one of them there was a bunch of hands uh going up so i was very encouraged to see that so specifically for um uh hybrid chains i think that's uh one of the more popular patterns with enterprise use cases because um in the previous years the enterprise space has been focusing on permission chains right solving existing pain points uh or creating a uh token economy in the in this controlled walk gardens uh space but then uh pretty uh quickly they realized okay i've got i've solved my pain points but how do i encourage other other players in the in the industry to participate you need some sort of uh incentive right nothing like a token to act as an incentive so they a lot of them figure out that if i allow the crypto holders to inject their values into this ecosystem and do that investment uh let the the proceeds grow and so at some point they can cash out that will be a great way to uh to encourage usage of the ecosystem they built so um and then we will we see naturally a interop scenario right you have the side chain you have the public chain and there's token bridges acting in between uh so there's a lot of very similar scenarios like that um coming into uh into uh space okay i did want to transition a little bit about the challenges or gotchas as you're looking at cross chain or interoperability around security or privacy or usability things that um folks in the audience should keep in mind is they're building their solutions out yeah uh so i mean okay yeah so uh so uh in uh in the cactus uh cactus issues so uh so for example firefly has a great so the uh GUI management tool but so the cactus that doesn't have yet such such such GUI tool yes so uh so uh in uh in cactus we need so uh we uh yeah uh i will uh i would i would consider about so the uh creating uh developing the GUI to run GUI management uh GUI management management tool uh for the uh management for the for the managing so the uh business business logic yeah and so uh i think so that this uh this cactus GUI is useful for uh useful for the uh so uh firefly's uh knowledge and cause so uh maybe uh we uh there's the possibilities that we uh we are collaborate yeah thank you okay and rama if you want to add anything i'll deal with each of those topics a little bit so security uh one of the express goals that we had when we were creating viewer was uh you already have an uh you you're building a rather complex network if you take fabric you have you're to build uh you have to bring together several set of nodes running under different organizations you decide which of them are endorsing which of them are committing you have to select yet another set of order nodes it's a rather complex uh uh structure and there are a lot of hidden pitfalls when it comes to when that security expert can look at and say okay you you you may have problem here one thing we explicitly did not want to do was to increase the burden on security professional we wanted to make sure that we did not increase the uh trust footprint that you would require if you use viewer as a solution uh for your network to interrupt it with another so what we did was we uh we tried to institute mechanisms that you can use as uh augmentations to what you you already have in your network uh you you're already like take fabric network you're already deploying and running chain code we will just require you to run one extra piece of chain code that is provide some function that you need uh you you you extend your uh uh client applications to just import viewer libraries to trigger particular calls and you add one more component which is we call a relay but which uh if we if you have time we can talk about standards which uh we are talking with other people about standardizing into a sort of common gateway appliance for networks uh but when you add a relay to your network like an ordering service it uh it is a it's an extra component we we want to make sure that the relay is completely trustless as you don't have to trust it for as you don't use it as a trusted third party so security issues are very important i mean if uh if if my if the solution that we are providing to your network is uh results in additional security vulnerabilities you're likely not going to use it so we wanted to eliminate or at least minimize any security issues so uh we have some uh we have a lot documentation on that uh we have some research so uh there may be still a lot of work to do on that uh we have to make sure that it's validated by security professionals and all that uh privacy is another uh topic i mean uh privacy is hard enough within network as it is uh in fabric we have different solutions for like channels pdcs and you may have heard the talks on fabric private chain code uh cross chain privacy is yet another dimension of heart so i don't claim to have solved the problem it's an active research question so uh would solicit all your uh thought and input on that usability uh i think there's a lot we can learn from firefly in this respect uh we do want to make sure that we are not trading off usability i mean security is great we don't want to completely give up usability for that so uh at least in in cactus and we were we have uh apis that make it rather quite easy for developers to handle and uh uh yeah we will be looking to firefly to actually lead the way on that and we'll be boring as much as possible okay i actually was thinking uh we've about 10 minutes left i wanted to ask if there's any questions from the audience since we've got some great subject matter experts on the stage and then you could get a sense for what's on people's mind and what they're looking for from the community so i think i could bring the mic over is there anyone who has any questions okay maybe you could say who you are and what you're working on yeah my name is uh vipin parathan no the famous vipin okay great okay so um my question is why does everybody hanker after atomic swaps it doesn't happen in the real world right now because especially when trading securities and so on there's a settlement delay and all that uh so uh it has other uh ramifications because security trading happens uh in a setup where there is credit uh involved meaning you when you don't settle like if i sell you a security and you don't pay me right away there are many reasons for that you know you're you're a bank i'm a bank uh or you're a big customer so why does everybody go for atomic swaps it is a it is a uh it's a practice in uh networks like bitcoin and all that because of obvious i mean i don't know about bitcoin but other networks because it's a public network with very unknown participants but uh okay well tough question from a financial services expert who wants to take it jim so there's a saying in chinese that the um would let the experts go last so i can just throw something out so you guys can uh hit that my view is atomic swap is just one of the more mature um uh cross-chain technologies that there is definitely a need for uh may not make sense in the some of the financial industry scenarios but definitely makes sense in some other scenarios and it absolutely makes sense when you don't have trusted parties in between so i think that's what mostly uh this is used for that the two parties that are doing swaps don't trust each other each other they need a mechanism to make sure they can exit without the other party when the other party is cheating they they can exit without any loss but i think it definitely makes it's definitely true that it's just one mechanism for example the token bridge i was mentioning earlier doesn't do swap but it's very useful right so there are different modes of interop yeah also uh i'm also the uh so uh so uh so the atomic swap is very very useful in the for for especially so the financial situation and so the uh so uh so uh so uh atomic swap is useful in the numeric asset but so the uh we so uh we we should provide the more so uh ordinary so uh so uh the original method uh original original based method and so the and also the uh cactus provides so the uh sub feature of the uh ht htlc and so the uh we uh we cover the these uh use case yeah so the answer can be different depending on whether you put on a technologist hat or a business person's hat so as a technologist you know going from the classical database world where you have system you have protocol like two phase commit right they are rather elaborate protocols you can you can allow different replicas to just uh sink in their own time without regard to uh atomicity or consistency right but two phase protocol commit protocols serve real purpose so from a technologist perspective doing an atomic swap across two decentralized chains in a decentralized manner seems like the right solution so now putting on a business person's hat you're right i mean we have uh when we uh what we've heard from uh clients our performance matters a lot and uh atomic swaps if they do not deliver adequate level performance in those settings we may ultimately end up using uh solutions that involve trusted parties which do not but without strict atomicity yeah okay thanks okay any other questions yeah to stir the pot need some pot stirs here we have like five minutes left oh great all right maybe you could let everyone know who you are as well and what you're working on hi my name is flora i am from phaser i lead the blockchain division of phaser my question is like we have cross-chain we have all the technologies great technologies and great community working behind that but from the enterprise sector what we face is like the use case of all these technologies right so is there any place where i can go and find out firefly is there these are the enterprises using firefly for their use case or cactus or cacti is there with weaver these are the enterprises using that one so that i can use that an example and build a business case out of it thank you you're jim smiling you want to lead it off again it's a great question i think that's um something we're continuing to work on the we have many customers are at different stages of adopting the technology some have been using them like gen one of firefly in production for many years some are just uh porting to from gen one to gen two which is what we have on on hyper ledger firefly some are just starting to build on firefly i think we can we definitely can go back and and do uh some inventory uh i i do agree that this will help um the potential uh prospect adopters to see okay this is used here that makes sense that use there that makes sense and i'm pretty close to that kind of use case so maybe i should try that too yeah i appreciate the the kuman rom any comments on that yeah so uh we so uh maybe all almost the same same comment but we we are uh i'm also trying to uh so various uh use case using so the cross chain technology and so the uh so uh so uh i'd like to challenge to the other another another use case uh yeah another use case yeah so yeah so i agree yeah thank you you uh thanks so uh i mentioned one use case that we were was uh used for last year in a proof concept uh there are several others like with uh firefly as jim mentioned uh in different stages of uh work with the client there's some that uh be actively worked on somewhere we're talking to them unfortunately i'm not at liberty to share details of that right now but hopefully very soon and even with the cacti that is the cactus and the weaver team have been having periodic meetings with several organizations to understand their their needs and uh yeah hopefully we'll put out more information as it comes by very soon so now i put on my kaleido hat so you you're welcome to come to us and then we'd be very happy to share privately with you more information and i don't know if we have nda with fizer but we can share more yeah and then well i like the buffloris question is it's very pragmatic uh and i i was thinking each of the projects has a web page that's part of the hyperledger website and just i mean sounds like what you did with the bank of france and hsvc is public so if that could go on the web page for cacti and then for firefly know we've had various webinars where people have spoke from like life in annuity nationwide and prudential uh pnc the large car um sort of first notice a loss use case and other ones were so maybe just putting a link to the webinars where they were actually speaking and then a list of who the companies are large conglomerates in thailand trade finance with a bunch of macquarie mutsui and others but but they're not on the web page for the projects so that could be like a very easy way to make more visible what others are doing in the industry so that people can look at the use cases and say oh this is something people are really using i could even call them up and ask them what their experience is like i could show this internally to my management to just show there's adoption of these technologies so that was a great question hopefully we we can implement that right away uh so speaking on behalf of hyperledger i would say that there are a number of user stories that exist already on the website okay not necessarily about interoperability okay but i think this is a good place to add those as well yeah and that's uh tracy who leads a technical steering committee he does a great job leading yep but thanks um so more great context and places to look at so we're almost done but if someone has like a burning question they want to ask before we adjourn you could probably squeeze oh daniella does all right great well how do they how do they get involved yes so thanks daniella question was what can hyperledger help the projects to get more adoption and to get a better uh ingestion of requirements from the customers um i think you guys are already doing a really great job because when we open the booth so many people want to come to firefly booth and and learn about it um but i guess uh there was one incidence where we were somewhat surprised that um seems like our leadership team uh from from the foundation can be told more about firefly in general because a lot of them don't speak about firefly when they when they give talks so i think uh that i don't know what's the best way to to make that happen but i think um when they go on stage and talk about of um hyperledger in general just mention firefly what it does and mentioned cactus what it does i think that that that'll have great effect yeah so almost the same so uh so uh mention mention hyper high firefly cactus and also the uh we are we we are always waiting in the uh so discord channel on hyperledger so uh please please please please feel free to uh contact us yeah thanks i'll echo what uh jim and takuma said i think hyperledger is already doing a great job at uh promoting all the projects under hyperledger the main ones and the labs uh we have uh uh it's super easy to uh uh start a github repo uh host discord channels everything so if any of you want to contribute please go to the github repositories go to the discord channels etc maybe the one thing that hyperledger can do in addition is like projects like ours which are uh inherently uh enabling other different blockchains to link together maybe can advertise it a bit more so we have uh several different different blockchains and other kinds like indy sawtooth iroha fabric etc uh maybe it's can be advertised uh upfront on on the hyperledger uh forums on the main website for example that the way to link these systems or the way to provide a common view across different chains look to projects like firefly or or cacti so that'd be great oh charles has a question maybe this is the last one okay this better this is going to be a good question right so the the ea the enterprise ethereum alliance has a cross chain working group uh the ea is not there to build software right the hyperledger managers open source software development projects and we're trying to essentially write specifications so that multiple software projects like these can actually interoperate and work together so the question is how do we how do we tighten that collaboration and how do we make it clear you know people like data chain who you know produce software our members of both um people like consensus who are working on the standards that ea is trying to develop how do we tighten that conversation and make sure we're actually talking to you guys as implementers of you know what amount to reference implementations and therefore you know core drivers of what should this the specifications say and how it should work hmm okay yeah i think we had a good chat yesterday about this so uh we uh when we are designing uh uh protocols for interoperability we want to be i mean it would be great because we are in the business of mitigating the diversity and heterogeneity you see right so standards are our best friend here and uh i mentioned there's a standards there's a group that's working towards trying to standardize internet work communication protocols and it'd be great if the ea could join that and contribute to that if we can get standards in this world that are as ubiquitous and university accepted as tcpip or http protocols are then we are 90 percent of the way towards being interoperable thank you so uh yeah so uh so we are very glad to uh so that uh discuss and discuss about so the uh so uh standardization of the uh cross change so uh so uh later so we discuss yeah thank you yeah hi chiles uh chiles has been leading the the many standards authoring uh at ea which i used to actively uh participate um but i think uh we need to sort of think about a balance between allowing the the community to to independently uh innovate versus at some point say we've got enough uh diversity in the approaches let's think about how to work together um i think it's always a challenge for ea to create a standard not too early uh to sort of stifle uh innovation or you know nobody look at it right if you can publish standards but nobody looks at it it's not very useful yeah exactly um so so but but but i think standard is is critical for the cross chain space because naturally uh this is about working together which standard is the best for so definitely looking forward to uh going back to contribute more over there thank you yeah i guess i have a mic so i guess would close out i would just reflecting with the evm becoming somewhat of an industry standard evm compatible chains even across different layer ones it's interesting some of those mechanisms emerge so i wanted to thank everyone on the panel for participating and an audience for some great questions i do believe there's something at six o'clock so like a meetup a double in meetup that's happening in the solution center so there might be some people external to the hyper ledger community but blockchain leaders who will be here so it might be a chance to meet some interesting people who are are local and looking to learn more about what we do at hyper ledger but i thank you all and probably we'll see you all in the hallways uh during the next few days thanks everyone


The following is a presentation of TFNN. Good morning, Markets Kickoff with your host, Tommy O'Brien. Good morning everybody. I'm Tommy O'Brien, coming to you live from TFNN Tuesday morning. We have some CPI data and boy, it's going to be an interesting one in the market, folks. I apologize for the late start. Right when I was coming on the air, man, my computer just froze up. Very difficult to do a show when your whole computer freezes up literally within about 15 seconds before we started. Appreciate my producer helping me out there. We restarted the computer. We're ready to go. And we have the NASDAQ folks pushing pre-market lows of more than 3% to the downside right now. And boy, when you jump over to that CPI number, man, it is a hot number, folks. And there is no reprieve just yet. We have a Federal Reserve meeting that begins one week from today. And you're talking about 75 basis points. They were talking about it in the den. You're going to hear about a potential for a 1% hike on that meeting, not to say whether it happens. 75 is definitely happening. What happens at the next meeting as we go down the line? Inflation, persisting in a big way. Consumer prices actually increasing when they were looking for a month over month decrease. Core came in at 0.6 for the month. It was supposed to come in at 0.3% for the month. If you were listening to the program yesterday, folks, I talked a lot about CPI shelter, the lagging impact that shelter will have on CPI. Shelter is 1 third about of the overall CPI. Shelter pushes 40% of the core CPI. Shelter, especially rents, lag tremendously because people don't reset their leases on a very often basis. And what's going to happen, folks? You're talking about a core number that's at 0.6%. We'll get into it a little bit later in the show. And you're talking about a number where some people are talking about next year. Shelter, rents are going to be pushing 7%. And by the end of 2024, rents are still going to be pushing 4.5%. And that's going to be 40% of the core CPI. The end of 2024, man. I think the market is going to be freaked out by this number, man, because we are way off what they were thinking, and we are just not stopping dropping right now. Pretty tremendous to drop off, we have, folks. You were pushing 13,000 in the NASDAQ 100. We're approaching 12,400. You're at 3.06% right now. You jump over to the S&Ps. Basically making pre-market session lows, as I speak. Look at that slide. The first move was down about 100 points. Since then, we've dropped almost another full percent. The S&Ps now off 2.4%. How about the Dow off 1.9%? The Dow just gave up 900 points from where it was trading at pre-market, man. We got 14 minutes to go until the opening bell. We're skipping this break, because I came on a little bit late, man, but we got plenty to talk about this morning. How about crude? Volatility everywhere in this market, folks. You get the crude contract right now. You're down 75 cents, but you're off more than $2 from where you were trading at at 89.20 down to 87.05%. Huge move in the dollar index, and that is gonna impact about everything, and you got gold trading down to 17.07 right now. We gotta jump to notes and bonds, but we got the 10-year. There's a drop for you. Down 24 ticks right now in the 10-year. You're pushing 114.27. We got yields through the roof everywhere, man. You got the bonds, the 10-year, 3.45%. Seems like we might be on our way back to about 3.5%. And then where do we go? Let's jump over to our man, Kevin Hicks. Every trading day, folks. 12 noon Eastern time right here on Tiger TV, the TD Ameritrade Network Fast Market with your host, Kevin Hicks. Tom White, the TD Ameritrade Network, and I think they might have something to talk about on a day like today, folks. Kevin Hicks, good morning. Good morning, Tommy O'Brien. Yeah, a little shock to the market this morning as inflation a little stickier than we thought, Tommy. Now, let's put this in a little bit of perspective. All we're gonna do, remember the market opened Friday morning at 40.38 and a half. So all we were really doing is giving, so far, at least so far, we gave up Friday and Monday's rally, but, Tommy, this number is showing that inflation is stickier than normal. And even though, if you look at the tables energy came down across the board, it was food, Tommy, that is really the stickiest part of this. Food at home, up seven tenths. Food away from home, up nine tenths. Tommy, and one last thing, if you look at the all items, less food and energy, used cars and trucks was down a tenth of a percent. Every other line was positive, Tommy. Yeah, it's a little intimidating, man. You make some great points and that's kinda what has at least the spikes on my back, man, pretty attuned to the risk probabilities that if it doesn't happen in this meeting, Kevin, who's to say that by the next meeting it's gonna happen? Cause everybody was saying we should probably see something on this meeting. We all know how that can go, man, pretty interesting. And you make a great point with the S&Ps, though. I said during my program at one point yesterday, I said, where did those 200 points come from? Kinda meaning from where we were at 3,900 last Wednesday and we were coming at about 4,100. And so we were still, I mean, you're talking about trading at 4,032, folks. It was quite an incline from where we were even less than a week ago at a 3,800 price point on the S&Ps. But as they say, Kevin, the day is young man, yield spiking, crude pulling back in a big way. I guess the conversation obviously goes to what happens in the Fed meeting. Do you wanna give us maybe what you think might happen? 75 seems like it's fully baked in. Do they even start talking about a percentage, Kevin? Or a full percentage? And then where do we go for the next meeting? It seems like 75. I think 75 is now 100%, Tommy. And now you're gonna start seeing, as we sit here this morning, there's a 20% chance of a 1% increase. That number will increase, Tommy. Especially as we get people, as we get consumer sentiment later in the week. Watch for that 1% move by the Fed to start gaining traction. Doesn't mean he'll do that. I still think probably Jerome Powell will do 75, but now that number, that number that we're aiming for in terms of interest rates, that number may have just gone up. Why? Well, because since August 12th, as we try to fight inflation, the government has spent another $1.1 trillion in terms of the inflation recovery the legislation against inflation and student loan forgiveness. There's another 1.1 trillion in spending. So inflation is sticky, Tommy. And Jerome Powell has got one tool that he can use and he's gonna use it. Hi, it's pretty interesting, man. What's gonna come down the line as we approach even their next meeting. We have, of course, yield surging. I mean, what do you think even when you look across the globe, man? You know, I was searching Bloomberg early this morning, I heard one analyst say, I instantly thought, oh, man, that's tough for the US. And then I said, man, that's doubly tough for the rest of the world because yeah, the US is gonna be hiking and we got the dollar index jumping basically two full points right out of the bat. It just gets tougher, man, maybe for Europe and their quest, right? Yeah, I mean, everyone pivots and is related to the US market. So the fact that inflation is sticky here with everything we're doing to fight it, that means you're probably gonna be, so this is a situation with high inflation, Tommy, that's gonna linger in these markets. And Europe has already talked about their numbers being much higher than ours. Now, here's one bit of good news, Tommy. The month over month inflation number was still lower than last month, right? It was eight and a half, it's down to 8.3. It missed expectations and that is what the market trades off of right now. But peak inflation, you can still make a discussion for that, but the core, the core is what is remaining stubborn on the upside. You know, I tried to, I talked yesterday during the program, Kevin, about the shelter part of things. And I've gotten quite an education along with many people about how important shelter is to the CPI. I was reading that it's about one third of the headline number and when you get to the core side, it's as much as 40% of the core, almost 40% of the core inflation number. And then you talk about the lag impact of rents and it makes sense, right? People are not signing leases on a constant basis where those kind of mark to market is getting done. They have to play catch up with the market rates. Does that go into your mentality? Cause that is I think a big worry point in my opinion in terms of where do we get core? When some of the numbers I was looking at, they were saying, you know, you could still see rents rising four to 5% in 2024, just because of the lag of a year or two where you have a tenant in there, you don't resent the rent, they leave and then you jack it up to meet market rates. Yeah, shelter right now, this month up 0.7, Tommy. It was one of the stronger lines in the excluding energy. And now for the year, for the last 12 months, shelter up 6.2%. So again, a strong number, shelter, shelter affects everyone and you're right, Tommy, you don't sign a weekly or monthly lease, you sign it for either six months or a year. So yeah, that's a number that's probably gonna be sticky as well. So shelter up 0.7 and up 6.2 year over year. Big numbers, man.  I haven't even jumped over recently to the VIX as we hit 25. That seems pretty, pretty relatively low in my opinion right now with what's going on and where this thing has been just for the better part of this year. With that in mind, Kevin, what are you guys talking about coming up at 12 o'clock today beyond the obvious? Go for it, man. We're gonna look at a recession-proof trade today, which is, we're gonna look at Visa. Today is the Starbucks investor day. So like fully is gonna do presentation on Starbucks. And then we'll look at Costco in our third segment. Where you might go, what you might use when and if a recession hit. So, Visa, Starbucks, Costco. Visa, Starbucks, Costco, and folks, you should be thinking like that because it doesn't mean it's gonna happen, but at least have the mentality to be prepared for the scenarios that can play out. And it's a dicey scenario with some of these numbers right now and they're running pretty hot and we're pretty decent into the hiking cycle and nothing has really changed to a nominal pretty small degree, at least in my opinion. Kevin, we appreciate you taking the time out on a busy morning, man, and we look forward to watching the show at 12 o'clock today. Thanks for having me on, Tommy. Have a great day. Always a pleasure, man. Folks, check it out, 12 o'clock today. You heard it. And yeah, I'm looking for stocks and it's gonna be interesting, man. You got yields for the first time. We're really having an impact. You're talking about the 10-year push in 3.5%. There is competition when it comes to equities and one of the things you're gonna see, folks, is people going to equities that provide a little bit of safety and a potentially pretty volatile period of time that we're coming up on, man. You're still sitting above 4,000 in the S&Ps, folks. That's about 10% above where we were trading at in June. Things have played out pretty poorly in terms of where the market is and where inflation is, even from what we were thinking that was gonna play out. I mean, do you remember what we were thinking in May or June? They weren't thinking, folks, that CPI was still gonna be pushing above 8% come September, okay? That was not the analysis.  I mean, we came into this report at basically where we were trading at in February. I'd say that things have gone much worse than that period of time. Now, you had huge energy shocks to the market, of course, in March and in February, but inflation is much more persistent right now than the Fed thought it was gonna be. That's been the story for the better part of a year and a half, and who's to say it's gonna change? So make sure you're protected. Maybe check out the program. I'm gonna try and check it out. Visa, Costco, two great companies in there. What was the third one? Starbucks, which is a great company as well. Starbucks, a little bit more exposure to China. When you talk about Starbucks, they were quick to fall off during the pandemic.  You actually see that they started falling off before the rest of the globe because they were so open to the business in China. So they have a little bit more exposure over there and China's got some problems, man. So Starbucks, they're gonna open down two bucks. Everything's opening down today, folks. We'll come back for the opening bell in three minutes. Stay tuned. Time of booming inflation. We are purchasing powers eroded. There's no better place to protect your harder and money-thinning gold. This is the gold's flagship asset is the Monk Todd Gold Project in the Northern Territory of Australia. This is Australia's largest undeveloped gold project. We are talking a world-class gold project in a tier one mining district. This is a large-scale, low-cost project with significant existing infrastructure in a politically safe and friendly mining jurisdiction. This, the gold just completed the Monk Todd Feasibility Study, which resulted in a 7 million ounce gold reserve in a 16-year mine life. All of this, combined with the approvals of all major operational, as well as environmental permits. This distinguishes Monk Todd as an attractive, devious pot, ready-development stage gold project. This, the gold trades on the New York Stock Exchange under the symbol VGZ. TFNN is excited about our new software charting program, the Art of Timing the Trade Chart. In collaboration with Tom O'Brien and using his best-selling book, The Art of Timing the Trade, your ultimate trading mastery system, David White has programmed an outstanding piece of software that will complement any trader's methodology. Using this first-of-its-kind program, The Art of Timing the Trade Chart allows you to scan thousands of stocks for Fibonacci formation setups, including guardleafs, ABCs, butterflies, and much more. The Art of Timing the Trade Chart is designed to help you when scouring the markets for stocks just beginning to form the trading patterns that many investors spend days, weeks, or even months searching to find. And right now, we're offering licenses available at only $79 a month. We are so confident that you're gonna love this new charting software that will even give you a 30-day unconditional money-back guarantee. Don't miss out on this incredible new piece of software. Get your copy of The Art of Timing the Trade Charts today by visiting TFNN.com. Sharpening your skills as an investor is like getting better at playing a musical instrument. You have to practice, sure, but you also need excellent instruction from experts. At TFNN, you'll get advice and guidance from the authority and technical market analysis, and it's not just dry, tedious text either. TFNN airs live financial content streamed live on TFNN.com and TFNN's YouTube channel with Tiger TV, live every market day from 8.30 a.m. to 4.00 p.m. Eastern. For free, each host is an experienced trader and gives their take on the market while taking calls and questions live from around the world. From the moment the market opens until the closing bell sounds, Tiger TV has eight different shows with expert hosts to help you make the right moves with your money. Watch online at TFNN.com or on TFNN's YouTube channel and become the investor you were born to be, TFNN, educating investors. This segment is brought to you by Think or Swim. For more information, just click the Think or Swim banner on the front page of TFNN.com. Welcome back, folks. We got the S&Ps kicking things off down 2.2%, trading at 4,038. You basically give up 135 S&P points just like that from the highs. Now we came into that print hire. We came into that print hire by about 30 S&P points. So you're off 2.2%, but this market just dropped about 3% even in the S&P from where we were. I'm not sure it had every right to be pushing 4,200 folks with everything on the line. It's a big miss, but I think it was overly optimistic to think this number was gonna come in as soft as many had thought considering the impacts of what's going on and the fact that the numbers have not come down yet to any considerable degree. Has to be what Chairman Powell is sitting there thinking right now. You got the NASDAQ 100 down 500 points from where it was trading at. What is that pushing? Yeah, that's pushing a full 4% because you were the markets dramatically higher. So coming from that, you have the NASDAQ 100 off 2.6%, but you're off almost 4% from the spike high you got right on that print at 830. Big numbers across the board, man. Crude catching a little bit of a bounce actually back to 88.19 so much for hitting 81, man. That was a heck of a buy. You're up to 89 bucks crude, not trading dramatically lower just yet. And yeah, we'll jump around to some currencies real quick. You get the gold contract getting crushed, man. That's gonna happen anytime you got this type of move in the dollar index folks because the dollar index just spiked what a point and a half from where we're trading at from 107.75 to 109.32. Now, Kevin mentioned it, we've only given back the gain that we had basically from Friday, right? All we've done is trade back to where we were at 10 o'clock on Friday. Remember where we were at 10 o'clock on Friday. If you said to yourself on Friday, hey, guess what? This is gonna be the CPI number on Tuesday. Here's where we're trading at Friday at 10 in the morning. Do you think the market is gonna be higher than that or lower than that after we get the CPI print, right? You would say lower. Well, we're basically higher depending on where you picked the opening on Friday. Not sure that should be where we sit even if we traded to 41.75, okay? All right, let's jump around some of the other articles. We'll see where the market sorts out. We're only two minutes into the trading day folks. It's gonna be a wild one. There's gonna be moves in both directions for sure. You know what, before we do, let's jump around to those currencies though because you got the Euro US dollar. We were pushing almost 102, right back to parity right now. Dollar Yen, okay? Look at that move. Now, I don't know if that's by then. I don't think that was probably real as in to 137. Let's put it on a one minute. You'll probably be able to see. Yeah, not really a real tick. I think down to 137, but nonetheless the Yen was at 142 and you just traded up to 144.5 almost on the Yen. You put that thing on a daily, right? Yeah, you're right back to highs, man. The trend is intact. Now take that tail out of there because that doesn't exist. Huge numbers, man. Jumping around to some of those CPI numbers. So Kevin talked about it, man. We all talk about it. Food, food costs increased 11.4% from a year ago. The most since 1979. Electricity, 15.8% the most since 1981. Gas falling 10.6%. Shelter cost, Kevin Hicks talked about it. Increasing 0.7% from July, 6.2% from a year ago. Both the most since the early 1990s. Folks, shelter lags. Shelter lags. And we're pushing 0.7% the most since the 90s. Annualized, what is that? 8.4% shelter is rising. Shelter is rising at 8.4% a year. It lags and will probably be persistent over the next two years. And you're at 8.4% right now. It's already the most since the early 1990s and you're at 8.4% annualized and that has a 40% impact on the core CPI. I'm glad I talked about what I did yesterday. If you missed the program, folks, yesterday, feel free to check it out on our YouTube page because I talked a lot about shelter, CPI, core CPI, some of the numbers they're looking for. One analyst I was reading talked about next year. I think they're looking for something like 7.5% shelter. Right now, annualized, it's at 8.4%. So that would be waning a bit if next year you have shelter rising at about 7.7.5%. And they're looking for 4.5% as of the end of 2024. If that's the case, man, core CPI is not going back down to two and 2.5% by the end of 2024. And if that's the case, then where's the market and where's the Fed? That's, I don't have the answer to that one, man, but it's a dicey question in terms of where we end up. Big numbers across the board there. All right, what else do I have here? This article from Bloomberg. So US falls to 18th place in global retirement ranking inflation, market volatility and an aging population makes 2022 one of the worst years to retire.  The US though, they're number 18 on the rankings. You got Norway, Switzerland and Iceland, good old Ireland number four top on the list in terms of retirement security. One number I want to go over here. They talk about social security. Okay, the US relies on a balance between the number of younger workers. We all know this, but check out the actual statistics. If you don't, paying into the system and the retiree population drawing benefits, but the older population is swelling and skewing the balance. Again, we all know that I think, but guess what, man, check out these numbers. People over 65 made up about 14% of the population in the year 1950, the year my dad was born. 28.4% in the year 2020, okay? And 40.4% by the year 2050, those numbers present a problem to the social security system. And hopefully our politicians can come together and have a little compromise, because that's what it takes to get things done when you differ in opinions, folks, coming towards somewhere near the middle, okay? Because that is a broken system and the only people they're gonna hurt are the people who are younger that really didn't even factor into making the decisions that set up that system. Doesn't seem fair at all, but nonetheless, big numbers, they gotta get that one under control. We jump over to the world of gambling and football. Why not? Monday night football, great game last night, didn't catch the end of it, but yet Russell Wilson signed a huge contract with Denver in the off season. He comes into Seattle, his former team, they lose 16 to seven. Denver coaching suspect from what I was watching early on couldn't get plays in there on time. Yeah, some tough deals going on there, but Russell Wilson played tremendously well. Great game, great first week of football action, and this Thursday I've talked about it, Amazon, they kick off Thursday night football. Football, exclusively, it's offered nowhere else.  Now, everything is still dropping in this market, so DraftKings is gonna get really hammered today when you have yields doing what they're doing and they are a growth company, to say the least, but you were positive, man. You were up to 1859 in the pre-market. This thing just traded from 15 to 1850, okay? Now you're back to 1716, and this is gonna trade with some volatility. We got the S&Ps off 100 points, man. You got the NASDAQ 100. We're pushing lows right now.  Now what's interesting here, though, is how the world is gonna change, man, and wrap your brains around it, because it's pretty interesting to see how this is gonna absolutely change how we watch live sports. If you're not a fan of gambling, sorry to break it for you, man, but it is gonna dominate live sports. DraftKings, okay? So here's what's gonna happen. They said Tuesday that it signed a multi-year agreement with Amazon that includes same-game parlays, same-game parlays. I'm gonna explain that if you don't understand that in a moment. That will be available on the DraftKings Sportsbook app. Content from DraftKings will be featured in all 15 of Amazon's NFL telecast this season. That kicks off this Thursday, beginning September 15th. Financial terms not disclosed, but we'll talk about that a little bit more, man, because that is gonna change things. And if you're familiar with how things work in Europe, man, Europe, they love gambling on sports. We'll be right back, folks. Stay tuned. You might think that if you want to be successful at trading in the stock market, you're going to need a crystal ball. After all, it's impossible to predict the future, right? Like any endeavor in life, before you decide it's impossible, get some advice from the experts. You might find that it's not so impossible after all. For daily market overviews that give you direction on the key indices, selective stocks and commodities, subscribe to the opening call newsletter at tfnn.com. The opening call newsletter is written by Basil Chapman, creator of the trading methodology known as the Chapman Wave. The Chapman Wave up-down sequence gives you an edge in identifying price turns, finding the peaks and valleys in stock prices.  First-time subscribers also get a 30-day money-back guarantee. If you're not satisfied, let us know and you'll get a full refund within 30 days of signing up, tfnn.com. Educating investors. The technology around us is changing every day. With so much happening, it can seem impossible to keep up with all the information. David White's investment newsletter, the technology insider, is designed to give you all the information you need to understand the technology that shapes today's markets and tomorrow's future. David White has made his living staying on the cutting edge of technology. His weekly newsletter will give you specific recommendations for valued tech stocks, as well as entry prices, target prices, and stops to set for each trade. Dave delivers his weekly newsletters every Friday with updates throughout the week. You can get the technology insider at tfnn.com for only $37.50. Sign up for David's newsletter, the technology insider, and get an inside look at everything the technology sector has to offer. Try it risk-free today with our 30-day money-back guarantee. tfnn, educating investors. Build the S&P 500 continue to climb for bold trades on U.S. large cap stocks in either direction, trade SPXL, SPUU, or SPXS, Direction's daily S&P 500 bull and bear leveraged ETFs. Direction leveraged ETFs. An investor should carefully consider a fund's investment objective, risks, charges, and expenses before investing. A fund's prospectus and summary prospectus contain this and other information about direction shares. To obtain a fund's prospectus and summary prospectus, call<PHONE_NUMBER> or visit directioninvestments.com. A fund's prospectus and summary prospectus should be read carefully before investing. An investment in the fund is subject to risk, including the possible loss of principal. The funds are designed to be utilized only by sophisticated investors such as traders and active investors. Distributor, Four Side Fund Services, LLC. This program is brought to you by Vista Gold, traded on the NYSE American and TSX under the symbol VGZ. Welcome back, folks. We get the S&Ps down about 90 points right now.  You were pushing about 100 points. There is no strength in that bar though. We're looking at 15 minute bars. Let's put it to a one minute just to see the drop off since 8.30, you know. Yeah, you got a rise to the tune of 12 S&P points, folks, but we just dropped 146 S&P points. 146, yeah, that's more than 4% from that spike we had to the upside. All right, if you head on over to the front page of TFNN, folks, I encourage you, if you have not yet to check out the Tigers Den trading room, okay? Right here on the front page of TFNN, it's a dollar for the whole year. You simply sign up. We use the Discord app. Now you can use that on your desktop. You can use that on your mobile. It's on days like this in particular, okay? There is a tremendous amount of great conversation. They're throwing in trades in there. They're doing a ton of stuff. And we have our first contest in there. So for those that already made their guesses, probably a little difficult ahead of time, but you can join the Tigers Den. And when you do, we're doing a little contest and we're gonna start doing more of these. All right, giving away some merchandise that we have going on. So this contest is you gotta guess the SPX closed as of Friday, September 16th. Okay, this Friday. You have to guess it by 4 p.m. tomorrow, okay? They're locked in. All you have to do is comment in the chat. If you're in the Tigers Den right now, you will see on the left side there under text channels, Tiger Contests. Head on over there. You can guess where you think the SPX is gonna close. As of Friday, you have until 4 o'clock tomorrow, but don't wait, folks, because we gotta shut it off at 1.4 o'clock. Is the hard deadline. The top three get a special TFNN coffee mug. So we got some coffee mugs in there.  There is the beautiful Tiger on one side with that beautiful backdrop of a tiger we have in our office right there. And then on the other side, you have TFNN.com educating investors. So, you know, a small contest, a few mugs, the den is worth its value, folks, because it's basically free. We just do a dollar to keep spam accounts basically out of there as a way to regulate that it's an actual real person and not maybe somebody causing trouble, right? Or just spamming or doing whatever. And there's some great conversation, folks. And in markets like this, boy, they're talking pre-market all morning about their trades, what's going on. They're talking aftermarket, but during market hours especially, very active in there. We got like almost 500 people in there, few hundred people in there at any time, talking live, chatting their charts, et cetera. So check it out and exciting. We'll be giving away a few mugs. If you're in the den, don't forget to guess. Go put a guess in there, man. Where are we going? Well, we're not gonna be above 41.75. I'm not gonna get a mug for telling you that, but we're not gonna be above 41.75 as of the close of Friday, folks. That's my opinion. Doesn't mean it's gonna be true. This market can defy anybody, but boy, with that number coming out, folks, I would say we're probably even gonna finish below where we're at right now if I had to make a guess on that number. We'll find out. Okay, let's jump around to some of the articles I have pulled up here. Kevin Hicks talked about it. They'll be talking about Starbucks, one of the stocks that they'll be talking about at 12 o'clock today on Fast Market. And that is because they have investor day going on. So you got a reinvention strategy is what they'll be talking about. The strategy is the brainchild of the outgoing interim CEO, Howard Schultz. He's been like so instrumental. He's with us. His third stint there, started the company, didn't actually technically start the Starbucks company, but brought it from essentially a nothing coffee chain to what it is today, came back as CEO. Now he's back again as interim CEO. Seems like they gotta get their deal together with the succession line going on at Starbucks. We jump over to SBUX. They're down 2.7% to kick things off. Let's see how some of the fang stocks are trading. Amazon, whew, growth stocks getting hurt, man. Amazon down 4.6%. Now this thing has had quite a rise recently. We put this thing back on a daily.  You were at about 116 to 120 area on Amazon. The lows of about 106, but you were as high as 145. Boy, they're getting punished today down 4.6% today. Microsoft down more than 3%, the big dog, Apple. Down 2.6%, we'll call it the 159.30 for Apple shares. See how Google's trading off 3.6, big numbers. Man, Metta off 6%. Twitter has its own saga going on, of course, off 1.3%. See how some of those growth stocks are trading. Look at this, man, Zoom. Zoom is pushing basically lows of any time recently as this market goes back to test. The lows we have, Zoom off 5.9% right now. Let's see how Tesla's trading off 3% arc with their growth stocks down 5.9%. Man, we jump over to the 10-year, and we are right bumping into this low, man. Look at this pullback we had from August, right? We were pushing what, 121.24, what's the high there? No, 122, we got a 122 handle and now we're at a 114 handle in six weeks span and we are pushing, I'm sure, 3.5%, something like that. Let's see where we're trading at right now. We got a yield right now in the 10-year of 3.43% on the 10-year. All right, let's see what else I had pulled up in terms of articles talking about. Yeah, you go from succession HBO and Ted Lasso. If you haven't checked out Ted Lasso, folks, outstanding series of comedy, but the great series in many ways, Ted Lasso, succession. That is also a great series for HBO. They have a lot of good stuff up there.  So if you're on a monthly pain for HBO right now, you can cancel, right? Make sure you check this. It's probably on their website. Maybe I'll pull it up at the break to make sure what the deadline is, but you cancel on your monthly. Maybe you're paying, it's expensive, HBO. One of the more expensive services, $14.99 a month maybe. And then they are offering 40% off for the year, is what it is, 40% off for the year. So instead of paying $149 for the year, they give you 40% off, kicks it back down to like $110 or something like that. So you're paying $110 for the whole year, instead of paying $14.99 for a month. There's some profitable trade for you for HBO. But they come in, 24 awards, right? Yeah, 24, no, 24 awards is what they gave out. I see HBO had 11 of them, prime 10 Emmys, including outstanding drama for succession and Disney and Apple were second. But yeah, HBO getting it done. All right, what else we got? Twitter has its own saga with the whistleblower going on. Yeah, and we talked about the retirement. All right, let's jump around to some of the currencies and see what levels we're pushing. Cause I was talking about the currencies, whether it's the Euro US dollar, Pound US dollar. Now folks, all we did was bump right up to that upper boundary line. I mean, look at this, we've been talking about these channels, right? Boom, you bump up to 102, you're back to parody, basically sitting at one. You have a trade to the bottom part of that, man. We'll be talking to our man, Teddy Kegstad tomorrow as we always do at 40 past the hour. But boy, you pushed the lower boundary line. And many times folks, we've been bouncing around on this channel line. All we're doing is pushing the upper boundary line. Even if you trade back down to just the bottom portion of this channel, you're talking about maybe 95, excuse me, 94 on that Euro US dollar. Now the Pound's a little bit different. You jump over to the Pound US dollar and you're nowhere near the top of what you could call a channel line. Not exactly parallel lines. Maybe this one rests a little bit lower. You could say even, right? That might be a better linear regression fit going back to at least end of February. Lines it up a little bit more parallel. But interesting to see if there'll be some divergences here with the Pound US dollar where the Pound, if it trades lower, you may be talking about 114, but you do have room to the upside there for the Pound to its channel line. But Euro US dollar, man, they are in trouble in a big way on that channel. And we'll finish it. We'll talk about the end when we come back, folks. Stay tuned. We'll be right back for one more segment. TFNN has just launched their new trading room, the Tiger's Den, hosted at Discord. TFNN has been educating traders for more than 20 years with live programming hosted by a variety of professional traders during market hours. And now they are expanding their reach with the Tiger's Den, available to all tigers and tigeresses for just $1 for the year. There's no catch or added costs when you join our community of traders. In the Tiger's Den, you can look over the shoulders of Tom O'Brien and the other TFNN hosts while they analyze charts during their live Tiger TV programs and join an interactive trading community with hundreds of members exchanging ideas, interact with other tigers and tigeresses as they share trading ideas, news analysis, and discuss the market action all trading day, even at night and on the weekends. The Tiger's Den at Discord is accessible on mobile or tablets as well. So it's always at your reach. To sign up today and become a part of this educational community of traders, just visit the front page of TFNN.com. You might think that if you want to be successful at trading in the stock market, you're going to need a crystal ball. After all, it's impossible to predict the future, right? Like any endeavor in life, before you decide it's impossible, get some advice from the experts. You might find that it's not so impossible after all. For daily market overviews that give you direction on the key indices, selective stocks, and commodities, subscribe to the Opening Call Newsletter at TFNN.com. The Opening Call Newsletter is written by Basil Chapman, creator of the trading methodology known as the Chapman Wave. The Chapman Wave up-down sequence gives you an edge in identifying price turns, finding the peaks and valleys in stock prices. Get the Opening Call Newsletter by Basil Chapman in your inbox every day. First-time subscribers also get a 30-day money-back guarantee. If you're not satisfied, let us know and you'll get a full refund within 30 days of signing up. TFNN.com, educating investors. Everything in the universe is governed by the Fibonacci sequence. This mathematical principle is responsible for everything from the most aesthetically pleasing artwork to patterns in the stock market. To stay on top of stock patterns you can take advantage of, sign up for the Fibonacci 24-7 newsletter at TFNN.com. When you subscribe, you'll get a weekly report from Veteran Day Trader Larry Pezzavento on stocks you need to pay attention to and you can trust Larry's analysis. After all, he's got 45 years experience as a day trader. Larry will also provide daily charts, videos, and data on the key markets that he's tracking. Expect notifications from Larry on market movement you need to act on at any time. First time subscribers also get a 30-day money back guarantee. If you're not satisfied, let us know and you'll get a full refund within 30 days of signing up. Subscribe to the Fibonacci 24-7 newsletter today. TFNN.com, educating investors. This segment is brought to you by Think or Swim. For more information, just click the Think or Swim banner on the front page of TFNN.com. Welcome back, folks. We get the S&Ps right now. I'm down about 89 points. 4039, you take a look at the daily, okay? All we did, folks, is bounce to the 618. Man, this is a daily. You trade down from about 43, what, 27? Yeah, 43, 27. Down to the recent lows we had, which were 38, 83. What do you do? You pop to the 618. You pop right where this thing chopped around for a bit towards the middle to late August. And then what do we do? We turn around. And if that's an A to B, C to D, folks, okay? You're talking about from 43, 27, down to 38, 86. So what is that? About 440 points or so? Yeah, 440 points or so? And then you take that off this number. You're talking about, what, 3,700? And the S&Ps, maybe you're talking about the recent lows we had in July, which would bring us right in. Now I'm gonna back that up a little bit more to see. Yeah, you're talking about right back where we were. Doesn't necessarily bring us down to 46, 39. But yeah, you're talking about about, let's get it exactly, 43, 27 plus 86. Yeah, 440 points, 441, something like that. And you're coming off a high, let's put it on 15 minute, even pre-market.  So yeah, 37, 30, something like that. And 37, 23 is the low from July 14th. Maybe that'll be my guess for the SPX and the trading contest. No, I'm not gonna guess in there, folks. I already have a mug. I should have it right here, drinking out of it. I drink out of it all the time. My beautiful TFNM mug. Check out the tiger stand if you haven't, folks. For those of you in there, thanks so much for making it such a great place every day. I was in there this morning, even though I wasn't posting a lot, watching what everybody was talking about on that CPI, it was a great discussion, man. Kevin said we're at 20% already for one full percentage point when the Fed meets a week from today. Folks, the meeting starts a week from today and then they have their announcement Wednesday at two o'clock press conference to follow September 20th and 21st is their meeting decision on the 21st. We got a lot of trading until then. Markets basically making lows as I get off the air. Stay tuned, folks. We got live programming all day. Basil's up next. Steve Rhodes, our man at 11. We got fast market at 12. Larry Pezzavento at one. Dave White at two. Tom O'Brien live from three till four. Have a great Tuesday, everybody.


The study found that the combination of pyoglitazone and phototherapy significantly reduced posi scores by 83.5% compared to 56.7% for phototherapy alone, but did not improve DLQI scores in plaque psoriasis patients. This article was authored by Miriam Gyasi, Sahara Brahimi, Vahide Lajavadi, and others.


Live from Orlando, Florida, it's theCUBE. Covering Sapphire Now. Headlines sponsored by SAP HANA Cloud, the leader in platform as a service. With support from Consolink, the cloud internet company. Now, here are your hosts, John Furrier and Peter Burris. Okay, welcome back everyone. We are here live in Orlando, Florida for SAP Sapphire coverage from SiliconANGLE Media's theCUBE, our flagship program. We go out to the events and extract the signal from the noise.  Thanks for supporting us, we appreciate it. Our next guest is Mitch Kick, Global Vice President, Head of Strategy and Programs for SAP Global Ecosystem. We love strategy guys because they get the chess board and they're always playing chess, 3D chess. They're looking at the landscape, looking at the horses in the track. Welcome to theCUBE. Thank you very much, good to be here. It's an evolving ecosystem. It's fluid, but yet active. The Apple announcement, certainly notable news for SAP. The, certainly the cloud, mobile, social data trend, the confluence of those things causing massive innovation surge. So you're got a lot going on. Absolutely. Just a high level. What is the current ecosystem? Well, you know, when you think about, think about the way SAP looks at its ecosystem. I mean, certainly we have those traditional types of partners who resell our product. But when we talk about our global ecosystem, we're really talking about those partners who are either strategic service partners, technology partners, some emerging partners and names that you mentioned like Apple, Uber, Facebook, some of these, they are not your grandfather's SAP partners. And so we're really moving to partner in new ways to co-innovate new types of solutions that take advantage of the trends in the digital landscape. What are you guys doing with Facebook? Well, Facebook, as an example, is something where we said, look, there's all this social data that's out there. How do we put that together with our hybris, CEC types of solutions, our commerce solutions, to basically allow marketers to do one-to-one marketing that leverages the power of Facebook data and your enterprise data. It brings it together in a very manageable tool. That must have been a hard deal because they're very controlled about their data and also each person has their profile settings. So that's awesome. Yeah, well, and it's something that allows, it allows for marketers to just do much more, much more targeting, much more insightful targeting. And we announced that last year and over the course of the last year, had a number of really interesting pilot examples. Can developers get involved in that? Is this more of SAP directly kind of thing? Well, that is an example of where we're creating a solution that sort of packages a turnkey. But when you think about something like an Apple, the beauty of that one is not only are we developing these beautiful industry applications that are going to be in targeted industries, I don't know if you saw them, they're out on the floor here, but you know, with regard to retail or with regard to- Well, startups have come out of the woodwork over just in a short time and have hundreds of employees with this ecosystem. Well, exactly. Well, and I guess the point I would make with the Apple deal, not only are we working with them to design some really incredible industry apps, but then you were also creating the software developer kit, making that into the HANA Cloud platform so that if you're developing on HANA Cloud platform, it now becomes another compelling reason that you can leverage these beautiful interfaces and these beautiful tools that take full advantage of native capabilities on the Apple devices. And so it's a way that our partnership not only delivers kind of near-term solutions that matter for us, but enables our broader ecosystem of solution partners to capitalize. It's fast to innovation. I mean, you're going to get more R&D and then real production apps faster that way. Absolutely. From the developer. So that's core. David Vellante and I always talk about courses for horses, which is certain things fit certain ways, but there seems to be now a common with the Cloud platform an opportunity for developers to come in. So I want you to explain how HANA fits in, because there's HANA Cloud and then there's HANA Cloud platform. What's the difference between the two? Can you just quickly share what that means to the ecosystem? Well, HANA as a database, I mean, the thing about HANA Cloud platform is that that creates a platform for our solution partners to extend, integrate, as well as build and develop on it. And you'd say, well, as a platform as a service, are you guys using HCP to go out there and win the past wars? As a generic sense of a pass, that's really not the intention. The intention is we've got this huge install base. We've got these service partners who are working very closely with their customers to innovate on top of. So that once our customers move to that digital core of S4HANA, they can use HCP as that extension and integration platform to tie together a number of different things. And a lot of the things that are, when you think about digital transformation, there's so much activity and discussion around the customer experience and architecting a beautiful customer experience with mold devices, with targeted types of commerce on the front end. But what people are coming to realize, I think, is the importance of having that end to end because you aren't going to be able to deliver the beautiful experience. And so the example with, I was on a panel yesterday with Uber and Toomey as an example, Toomey, luxury retailer that wants to create, not only a compelling customer experience that embodies the best of its luxury brand, but also is facing the threat of Amazon Prime one day delivery, same day delivery in metropolitan areas. And the beauty is that by partnering with Uber and SAP, we're able to kind of incorporate that seamlessly as an option for same day delivery. They can deliver in 30 minutes for $7. It's game changing. So that's an example of where we provide here at this event an early window in the type of co-innovation that we're doing. And it's sort of like in the past where you'd think, well, SAP has a certain solution footprint and we're going to partner with other software companies who can plug in to that footprint. Now you have in the new world where there are industry ecosystems like Uber, platforms that you can capitalize on, it's the business network. You can plug in business networks to an overall solution to customers that's really compelling and that delivers opportunities in ways that we couldn't have imagined a few years ago. I want to build on that. So historically, strategy has been three to five years tied to asset values, mainly fixed asset values. And how are we going to generate a return on those fixed asset values over an extended period of time? You're describing a world where we're focused where especially as those assets become more programmable they can be applied to a broader array of activities and opportunities where the horizon starts to shrink pretty dramatically, the strategic horizon and it becomes more what capabilities do we have and how do we improve those capabilities and drive them forward? And that's a crucial way of thinking about partnerships is partnerships as capabilities. I think that's where you were going. Are you thinking now about partnerships in the ecosystem as crucial capabilities, not only for SAP, but also for SAP customers? They've always been in many ways. When you think about customers need a whole solution and many in the past, even when the on-prem software world you didn't get the whole solution by just buying the software package. It required a lot of additional service. Now with the cloud models that are emerging it's much more easy to consume the software functionality but there still is a tremendous amount of ongoing innovation, differentiation, customization and that's why when you look at a lot of where we're going with our solution you can hear Mike Etling talking about our success factors product and the fact that well, how do partners help us? Do our service partners help us in the same way of just implementing software? No, their role is really in integrating and extending it and creating microservices on top of it that then say well, this is a really unique capability that's essential for delivering value to this particular customer or client. And so you're now finding that because of our ecosystem that is getting plugged into these new ways of contributing, we can now have a broad array of contribution. People understand how they can plug in and capitalize on that and deliver real innovation and benefit to the end customer. So you look a lot at industry trends. As you walk the floor here, what trends are starting to emerge for you and what it's getting you excited as a strategist?  And transformation, I mean, I was involved in the early 90s on the big re-engineering wave, right? Where you're re-engineering using technology, whatnot. So what's really different here? And I think what we see is that through all these trends, there's sort of a confluence of them and people map out a dozen, two dozen different trends that are going to change the world. They speak breathlessly about all these things. But in the end, what difference does it really make? And from my standpoint, it's really three. One is you're starting to see all these things change the customer experience fundamentally, right? To the real time, mobile devices one to one, that's being enabled now. You're also seeing the difference in how value is delivered in terms of, you know, the IoT, instrumenting the broader landscape, et cetera. And you're seeing a difference in, you know, business models in terms of how value is captured. So you can think about it as well. How is value consumed? How is value being delivered? How is value being captured? The real, so what, is that all these different individual technology trends are combining to make those differences happen that enable completely different ways of making money, of growing, of opportunity. It changes the analog. Where the analog piece, it used to be the transactional digital, then hands off to analog or vice versa. That whole thing end to end, you just talked about it as an end to end digital. But the analog role of the person is augmented differently. So what you said is interesting because I think people look at it differently and say, hey, if it's digital end to end, where does analog fit in? Well, it's still people walking around here at the show. We're talking, we're face to face. So I think it's interesting when you look at the optimization of digital. Now it takes sales leads, for instance, or marketing automation. Get the form, pass the leads to the sales people, they go knock on the door, call, email. That's analog transaction. That's now digital. But there's still the analog component. So what's your thoughts on that? How do you look at it? Because you're still going to do business. The people still going to be involved. The humans. That was really hit home when we were talking about this Uber example, because everybody talks about the, to me, they're talking about, well, it's a beautiful experience for somebody to be able to then say, hey, I got a one hour delivery. We've all can identify with going to a retail outlet and they say, oh, I'm sorry, we don't have any more of those in the store, but we've got one that's 40 minutes away. If you want to go drive there. Well, what if now all of a sudden you can get the product into this store in the next 30 minutes? Or deliver it to wherever you happen to be in 30 minutes. That changes the game. And that's user experience. But the thing is, so that's nifty, that's great, it's really compelling. But when you start thinking about what it would take to work this. Okay, well now you're going to have to have an implication for those retail store people. And so this notion of how are we making this a beautiful experience for the retail clerk, who now, instead of just serving the store, is going to get pinged because, hey, wait a minute, we've got some deliveries that you're going to have to pick and pack to get ready for some Uber driver to come in. That's a change to them. You need to make that. So when you talk about implication, that highlights all of the change management, all of the, how does it make a difference in individuals' people's work? And there's always going to be that last mile of engagement that's needed. And that's really, when you start talking about trends, how do we see things changing? I think about our service partners. I see them, their role changing to enable the real business change. Well that's it, that's it. The impact is clear, totally agree 100%. And it's the confidence that magnifies that change. And it's massive, it's freaking awesome. And everyone can look at it and say, damn, it's going to be big. So my final question to you is, okay, given that impact, what advice are you sharing with your ecosystem in terms of how to prepare for it? How to be ready not to go out of business or help your customers not go out of business and enable them to actually compete digitally in the transformation? Well, when we look at it, it's the part of the challenge is that the ecosystem's so diverse that often your guidelines are speaking to specific people. But the one thing I would say is, everybody's going out and talking a digital message. We need to be on the same song sheet. So when you're a solution partner or a service partner and you've got your own offerings, your own reference architectures, et cetera, let's work together to make sure that we're all singing from the same sheet. Second thing is it's really imperative that we basically migrate our installed base to the digital core. So S4HANA, getting enabled around that, making that change happen, that enables all other sorts of benefits. And the third thing would be the importance of then leveraging on a cloud platform because the integrations that were hard coded from yesterday are no longer valid. So if you leverage on a cloud platform from integration standpoint, you're really allowing for this much more agile and fluid innovation cycle to happen in a much faster clip. And that's really what our customers are going to need. And it's going to take all of us working together to deliver that promise of digital transformation. Well, Apple deal puts you guys in front and center on the user experience side, consumerization of IT. The chess board, multiple dimensions of chess going off the SAP ecosystem. Mitch, thanks for coming on. Welcome to theCUBE Alumni Club. This is theCUBE here live at Sapphire. We'll be right back. You're watching theCUBE.


Members of Southwest Agenda for Asiwa Jewel 2023 in Undosed State have called on delegators across the country to ensure that the national leader emerges the presidential flag-bearer of the All Progressive Congress in 2023, speaking at a meeting in a Croatian-Undosed State Capitol. A leader of the party, Akin Delia Deni, said Tinobu is the best material in APC. According to him, the national leader is physically and mentally free to govern Algeria and provide purposefully leadership. Presidency, that they should vote for Asiwa Jew Amed Bola Tinobu, we are with him, we are for him, we will be with him, we will be with him. You can see now, you see the coordinator of Asiwa Jew Amed Tinobu in Undosed State. He has done the job, has gone around the whole of the nation campaign and in the process, most Nigerians have seen that demand is fit. I'm talking about physically fit. One thing they were trying to use against him was that it's not well, there is not well. When they now saw him traversing the whole of Nigeria, have you ever had anybody talking about Asiwa Jew Amed being fit again? He is fit, he is fit physically, he is fit mentally. Also speaking, the state coordinator of Swaga Efeda Yabigude said Tinobu is not only politically sound but also in business. Please do subscribe to our YouTube channel and don't forget to hit the notification button so you get notified about fresh news updates.