We're back in Manchester at the venue, a new venue, make a bit of noise, let's go! We're in the national battle of the day, on the right hand side an absolute don't-flop veteran, from Leeds make a bit of noise for dialects, it's an absolute pleasure to be in Manchester representing wasted talent from the floor in a make a bit of noise for Lou Saifoff. Chose dialect to go first, so it's round one and dialect, let's go! Yo, is everyone in surge here with me? Right, yo, so can I first say, I love your t-shirt man, Marilyn Monroe, at least she knows how to turn up to a birthday. So from the time I brought my first Lou this, I told myself I couldn't lose this, because the truth is I don't mind if you prefer his style. I brought lines that will disperse his rounds, that's a true stick, so why don't you don't think we would meet tonight and I would give him an easy ride like a loose chick, because if you actually followed me fam, you'd know I snap bodies on cam like a new pic. So let's do this.  Well if only he knew in Leeds if you don't greet D with your arms open, you could leave with your heart broken like T2, but that's for my Leeds crew and that would mean money, so let me get to this geek Lou, you know the one who talks more greased than gangs in the streets do, but yeah, seem like a nice guy, so be cool and stick to Jaws, because if you ever saw a clip explode, that was an action preview.   That's an emu. He's like this back will leave you cash for seafood, so if you look shook, you'll get a good book like when the pastor greets you. I'm like Stephen Hawkins squeezing shoddies, because I'm a spares on people and they say the way I dot a body, y'all could pass for measles.  I'm nice.  You don't grab no heat, Lou. You just act bad and chat like you gang bang, because most of the scene do, but that's how sheeps move. It's just funny you guys react off his guts like it ain't see through, because there's something about his accent that makes it seem cool, but I was raising a church and learned Satan's the worst at being true, so if only I didn't even knew Lucifer's the father of lies, so I conclude and bars at your right aren't actually believable. And that's why I'm bored of you.  Nah, this guy's crew consists of one Chinese guy and one extremely huge pussy, and I guarantee if I pull the tool on him, they might do nothing. It's a fact, fam, you don't want to act bad if my crew come in, because if we bring them blades in, we'll have this dredge shaking like Sanko from Cool Runnings. The war commenced, gee, because I'll deflect every weapon you form against thee, because the Lord protects me. He taught me how to dance with the devil, I got an immortal technique. Whilst you've fallen from Christ, but still try climbing the stairway to heaven with all of your might, but I'm not silhouette distorting the light, that's ready to kick him down all of the flights, and I know you saw Frixel's daughter survive, but trust I ain't getting caught for the crime, just ask Jammer, I'm all for the crime, I'll shoot and leave, cyber in the basement, and that's Lord of the Might. Do you want to hear my thoughts on this guy? Lucifer, aka Owen Reed. Well, judging from the way he spelled his nickname, I wouldn't say Owen Reed.  If I drop a line, it'll get peaked so fast, you'll be deceased before the show can start, that means I'm leaving with Owen's heart, because I'm the repo man. Do you flown over to the UK to get more exposure, and you heard Dothlop like jokes? Yeah, that's why I brought you over. First thing I thought of when I heard I'd be battling Marcus Freckelton, judging by your name alone, I can tell you aren't American. I'll turn your head part, Ned Stark, Led Spark and Barrium, so anybody saying Daniel Wolfe is making a stark comparison. So what's loose ice for you on today, Marcus? The one with the hard spitting, raw lyrics they all fill in, because they know that it's authentic, or the video game bar nigger. The one with the jokes, I have them laughing until they start pissing, and I'm ready for any dialect you bring. I talk different, I'm from the corner.  I'm a Trump supporter, scratch that. I went to you get Tory pregnant and stabbed that with a large steak knife. I'm stabbing Nate Kidd's with a large steak knife in broad daylight. He won't even flash back, but I said Nate Kidd's in daylight and they could call a flashback. But this arsenal you dreaded, you could have that.  Shotguns. I end your world with 2012s. This a Mayan threat. I know you think he only got two hands, why he need 20 shotguns? It's because I'm a mess, and the only way to explain it, homie, is using flame emojis. A fire text.  Low key, I keep that hammer flying like I am Thor. I am God. Any battle with bosses, die a loss. Skyrim Lord, I could battle Colossus with iron sword, now die a cart in the shadow of a Colossus. I am a boss on every level, I bring doom if I got a war. I brought the game back. The game stopped. I evolved. Even my video game bars could make a Titanfall dialect.  Only time this mark is in the leads when die a home. Die a clone. I already got the number of dial phones, so the next time y'all hit my line, dial tone. It's lonely and colder. Near the top, I'm getting closer and closer.  That's why I'm holding the toaster. It bangs in Manchester. You knighted. I should open a soda, is he for real?   For my words, I lead a planet. Let's reenact it. If this man, Darren, I don't put the Cantonese dialect. This got a Korean accent. Waste the talent. Shot a fan. Look at the two teams that we established. My Spanish mob deep, my nigga, we wreaking havoc. Keep it all over the web. Thanks, Spider-Man. Saint Lucifer is the best.  Hell, I think I'm the man. I got dope bars and lines. I could give diagram. You don't want to fight. This gun of mine is sending you a lullaby. I run a knife in a die section and cut a guy. This butterfly, giving them wings. You want to fly? You lost, partner. My bars hotter than summertime, but I heard don't fly like jokes. So this is what I'm going to try.  You wonder why? It's a side splitter. It ain't just cracking him up.  If this chicken don't cross the road, he'll still make it to the other side. That's a joke scheme.  I'm serious. And I ain't took a battle serious yet.  Wasted. James is a true writer, but he's there dropping generic Tory bars, but it's a huge minor.  Because you gon' lose, Cypher. I'm sorry about that. No, you don't know, Blake. You don't know.  Pistak.   Anything from flake to bud because he loves getting shit-faced, Sonambo pushes buttons and show why this fucker's life is a big game. You see to you, it feels right. Dropping video game bars could just skills tight, but that just strengthens the fact you've got a better grip on that pad than you do on your real life.  You just find them eating, meeting cake up the streets with rage because he hasn't eaten for days and it's meal time. So whilst this fiend's been getting lean off of them legal highs and seeking strikes, that has been eating nice and dead in more niggers than Resident Evil 5. And I ain't even lying. I don't even need me a rifle. Like Far Cry, like to keep it primal. This nigger needs to eat. All I need me is a piece of weed so I can increase my survival. Whilst he's a fiend, so he's got this need for speed and that's what's keeping his drive still. Outside, don't flop your life's like bio-shock. You like needles inside juice. So I'ma try to be honest.   Just check the Mega Drive and come to the Old Sonny. Stay in advance with the warfare, I've got my drones on him and I can tell he don't want it. This snake wouldn't have the metal gear for the war if he was so sonny. This is like a matchup between any small bloke trying to mess with Goro. Ain't no old clothes, but I'm not sure if he's so sonny. This is like a matchup between any small bloke trying to mess with Goro. Ain't no old clothes, but since he talks loads, I've sent him four blows and after the counter-strike fratches his neck and jawbone, Eddie Gordo will have to speak to his many moths called.  You don't like African hobbits. Slap nigger that got slapped up in college and that does make me question that brand that he's shot in. I mean fair dues, it puts cash in your wallet, so from hustler to hustler it'd be bad if I mopped it, but if I'm actually honest I'll say the fan shouldn't cop it cause you're lacking the knowledge that the talent can only be wasted if you've actually got it. So let's get sensitive. Once in a while you'll drop a line as exceptional, but I'd still say I contain more talent within my left testicle. I used to find him a huge threat until I went on YouTube and did a view check. We've both done 26 battles and you've got under 400,000 views at best. I've got over two and a half million and that's not even including my tunes yet. So who's next to tell me I'm overrated and my flaws are basic like I've grown complacent or I've got some interested in impressing the load of pagans. Some say Tabusca is a bad look, but that's a bogus statement because I make music, do a nine five and I'm still on the stages. So before my fault falls in haters want to tell me I ain't going places just remember we both are the talent and he's the one who chose the way to stay.  I really only came here to do drugs at Rapids. Mr. International, oh yeah, the boy's head, nine hours on a plane and this the shortest flight I've taken all year.  I look like Mr. Hankey, right? I look like Mr. Hankey, right?  I snuck a five seven on a plane.   I got bragging rights.   I battle grafter. Drop nothing but science on Ryan's head. But for dialect tonight we dropped in the science set.   Leave all alone before I air these pistols in my jeans. You shall leave, bro.  We could tell you was Pisces. You were at risk of being the hand of God if I used the fifth. If I'm losing grip, it ain't a funny bone in my body. Not even a humorous. I palm full arms. That scheme was a throwaway. If you don't think my arm bar is a shirt, I'll show the blade. I love my knife. But when I'm around lead, I paint the town redder than a clown head. That's sourdough. I'm all about bread. I'm getting pounds yet from houses that I sling around here. You just sang about it. Hell of loud. Don't let the sound spread. But let me think about it. If I find out that you calling out feds, do I have to spell it out? If you're talking to the DEAD, you'll be pronounced dead. That's an any dialect. Dialect my style fresh. They were sleeping on my angles. So I built them around bed. It's a heavyweight fighter in the ring with a featherweight striker. Boy, I emulate fire. This battle ain't even fair in height because the nigga that they sent a grade higher. Hang it up. Hang it up. Your legacy over. You'll never be dope. But the day you stepped in me, your date with destiny was made essentially closer. You don't threaten me. My pen flows that tend to threaten the culture. So I keep my friends close, but keep my enemies closer. So I keep my friends close, but keep my enemies closer. So I don't need my friends close to bring my enemies close. I sent toast. Hella weaponry. I'll never reload them and die men. Go underground. That was Sierra Leone. I said I keep my friends close, but I keep my enemies closer. So I don't need my friends close to bring my enemies close. I sent toast. Hella weaponry. I'll never reload them and die men. Go underground. That was Sierra Leone. I swear. I'm not playing. I will bury and ghost you. I don't just rock a fella. I rock nations. I am technically sober. I'm gonna blow. And even if I don't, my gun will blow to get money.  I'm one of those. The kick gully.  I brung a foe. It kick funny. The kick ugly like one of those.   Swace of talent, baby. We the most electrifying crew. And every time I step inside the booth, I weaponize the truth, cop a shirt, make 15 a pop, 25 for two. We out here. Check, check, check. For the sake of impressing an audience, my man battled sea-free and put on his most aggressive performance. But I'd say it's especially important to address this issue, and that's because I was blessed with a daughter. So let's keep it rough.   You ain't a G for that. Picking on yallies, I expect a team to act. Maybe if I send them a hook, the boy will grow up like Peter Pan. What's next? Spitting lines of furloughs while sipping a pint of stellar? Don't talking about. Nah, you don't need that kind of pressure. He said the vagina's better. At least that's what he thinks, Don, because Lou needs women. It's only pussing to bring out the beast in him. This nigger's king Kong. So tonight, if I had me up tonight, I probably would have got wigged on if I had me your wig on. But I'm dragging balls. So what I'm saying is I ain't someone you can pick on. So tonight, yeah, so tonight, before you get flicked on, someone needs to tell Chris Brown he needs to put his face down. Because now he is.  So I'm saying for him this over your knees he's waiting. How? This crowd preferred the facts and this clown's a circus act. He's been lying in his rounds. So what? You think you're the king now? Because my verse got your lines heard up in the big crowds. Nigger, you need to sit down. The only reason you're in that clip now is because you want to strip that bitch's figure like a discount book. But Johnny Storm doesn't want him around his spouse, because one time he called Lou in a small room and this prick was sniffing on these chicks' blouse.  And now he's not even allowed in the crib now. But he's obsessed. So once in a while, he'll take a trip round knocking the door and he'll offer to take the bins out.  Lose a lot. I don't know what it's going to take this dude to stop, but I heard he only grew them gruesome locks because he wants my verse to use him as a human and I swear for research purposes, I checked out my verse profile pic and it was no surprise when I saw that Owen Reed liked this. Owen Reed liked this. You need to chew with the likes, bro. If he gets locked up for harassing women, then letting this guy go. I'm just stating facts.  You're an American psycho. Plus you have a very big side show because at the 8th birthday I had high hopes, but still loose cypher and dire on the fly over quite low. It's all right though. I ended up putting on the right show and stage your math given in grind floors. Do you know why it works?  I mean, at least that's what I know. I mean, from what put you in the hospital then? Was it a coat that constantly bled?  All I know is you ain't got my respect because you disappeared, didn't say squat to your friends, but still had the cheek to try and send shots on the wet.  The way I stood at this body, I couldn't make a doctor reflex.  I've been on Obamacare, but when you were in the hospital, did Obamacare? Nah, I swear, I know I've been hardly fed, but I heard you didn't get any sleep from the time you left America because you left your pajamas there.  Yo, I swear down, I can't believe you left your whole attire there. I mean, this guy asked me if I had drawers. I was like, yeah, we're not the type you wear, you know what I'm saying?  Blue cycle, let's go. Let's go, Luke. Let's go, Luke. All righty. Let's go to the road. Said I've been making noise on the road. I got the streets talking. Say, here's Stone Cold Stunner, Steve Austin. Geez! I love that boat. Thank you. I said, here's Stone Cold Stunner, Steve Austin.  That's big L. And this big L will leave dialect broken. E-bonics. I'm unholy, and I'm ready for whatever you brung for me. I gotta stop dating these cougars. I dunked Fotis. It's gonna be a whole lot of gun bars. I dunked Fotis. Anything I learned in life, the slum showed me. I aimed two foes at the chest of young Kobe, like O'Neal.  And you'll be dead in the middle of the street like roadkill. Your flow feels like chilling with a hoe in a hotel watching Netflix for real. Because I ain't got no chill. No chill. You rap like a girl. Slow it down. You rap like a girl. So I'ma give D K's. I'm letting that 40 go. My verse is so official, I ain't gotta rap it fast. I'm talking slow. If you're miss hustle, I'ma send my young gathers at your shorty bro. I'ma exit out for the jazz the rapper talking. And I'm taking Tory though. Oh, blimey. Word association.   It'd just be words, ramen. I ain't skirted by them. The nerve on a man to think I'd be disturbed by them. I came from a system of down niggas. The police, they heard about me, but they won't get the what, the where, the when, or the who. Not a word out me.  So even just being here is wild and impressive. I was supposed to resurrect D career at the eighth birthday. Seems weird. This is revival seven. I squeeze off diligence. I bet he won't respawn quick enough.  I got the tightest 16s. I'll let the iron or the calcium then the vitamin three phone call. It'll be 12 niggas on the side of his V. I'll let sun exposure and all I did was invite them in deep. Marcus think he got swag and old ladies want them, but they try to fight. Why they're trying to fight him off when he tried to lay it on them.  Wait, did I just make a bar up? Yeah.  My bad. I ain't trying to dog. Luke came to you came to do dialect wrong. Yeah, you real late. I'll say I hit every target when it's still big. I toss clips still let off clips when they hold up. I said you real late. I hit every target when it's still bang.    And I'm Dolomite when I hold the mic. I'm blowing like a loaded pipe. I show the strap to close the gap, but brace yourself. Don't overbite. I said I've earned so much stripes when I go to fight and I even brought the photo tonight.  So since you and Tory going flat, never mind with the personals. I heard don't fly once jokes tonight. So what do you tell Tory if she had two black eyes? Nothing. You already told it twice. Every time I step inside the boot and every time I step inside the boot that weapon rise and bring an end to any guy you get inside your crew. See I got a right to bear arms and it works out because I exercise it too. But I would rather pay the extra five to get my guys to shoot and discounts for any guy in a waisted tee because it's still 15 or pop 25. Waste the dot com man.


Hey guys, what's up? My name is Sonali. Today's video is advice for first-year sorority recruiters So I've been doing videos on the P&M side for about three years now And I've gotten a lot of DMs to do videos on the sisters side But I have been a little scared because there are some things that we're not allowed to say so I don't really want to Get me in a sticky situation But today's video is pretty general I have been on the inside of recruitment for two years now and I'm coming up on my third and final year Which is literally so sad like I actually really like a recruitment because it's just so fun You get to talk to so many people get to meet new people And I definitely thrive when I'm around so many people we're less than a month away from recruitment And I'm so pumped to just get to live back in the Katie house I've been missing it so much and just being surrounded by all my sisters But let's get started with today's video got my handy dandy iPad with me I just wrote down some really random notes like I always do for my videos I feel like sometimes they're a little bit random But just bear with me because my mind just thinks like that when I heard about this video idea The first thing that popped into my mind was to bring breath spray So like you can get the little mini list green ones or you can get just like the little thin paper ones But I don't recommend any mints because that takes so long to like dissolve or like even chew It just takes too long and these breaks are really short So just have breath spray on hand or you can store it away in a drawer And you can like share it with all your friends if you need to but sometimes I'm kind of self-conscious of my breath Especially when you're in a really loud room you have to kind of get close to the PNM So you don't want to like scare them away with your bad breath So bring breath spray another thing to think about buying is Dr. Scholl's shoe pads or just any kind of gel pads that will make your shoes more comfortable Not everyone is comfortable with wearing heels sometimes during recruitment on the sister side You are or may be required to wear heels So I would just recommend getting anything to make them a little bit more comfortable I know even buying like a little bit of a platform on your heel makes them more comfortable to walk in 100% you need to bring your own food like granola bars or just like quick fruits that you can eat super fast because like I said those breaks are really really short and You just need to like stuff your face and spray your breath spray So just bring any food that you can eat really fast But also make sure that you're not eating like something that can get in your teeth And like you need to like take time to like toothpick your teeth out, you know So yeah, I don't know I would just stick to granola bars or like a banana or something your sorority will probably Cater your dinner and your lunches possibly I would definitely make sure of that because all sororities are different But you will most likely need to bring your own snacks also be prepared with your energy supplement whether it's tea Coffee B12 vitamins fruit vegetables literally anything trust me You're gonna need them recruitment is a very long week with a very long days So when you first meet a P&M try to feel out Their personality and how they want the conversation to go you can kind of tell when a P&M's a little bit shy And you have to take more control of the conversation rather than having a P&M That's super excited and eager and has a lot of questions then they will most likely control the conversation I would say aim for them to talk more than you talk But also if they're asking you questions and want to hear your personal stories then Definitely give them what they want in my other videos I tell P&M's to write down some questions before the whole recruitment week starts just to get them like thinking of what they want To ask the sororities and you should do the same So you should just like write out some questions in your phone really quick Maybe questions just to get to know them a little bit and then just store them in the back of your mind So you can have them when things get a little bit silent and a little bit awkward then you'll just be more prepared I would also reminisce on some of your favorite memories and your sorority or your big little Experience or just why you chose your sorority because odds are you are going to get asked those questions So might as well be prepared with your answers I'm not saying be scripted because you definitely should not do that It definitely doesn't come off genuine and that's what you're striving to be so yeah Don't sound scripted but definitely be prepared with those answers and those stories when you're asking P&M's questions I would definitely ask them open-ended questions instead of closed-ended questions or yes or no questions For example, you can ask them. What did you do this summer or what was your favorite memory in high school? So that makes her answer range like a lot broader and she can actually tell a story since you asked that question So hopefully your membership chair will tell you guys what not to talk about It's usually boys Going out maybe straight away from politics and sometimes religion other than that you can pretty much talk about anything under the sun You're definitely trying to relate to this P&M. So if this girl wants to talk about 90s throwbacks or reminiscing on her childhood then go ahead and talk about that with her It doesn't always have to be your sorority values or your big little experience like it doesn't always have to be about the sorority It's about getting to know this girl for who she is and seeing if she is a good fit for your sorority Also, whatever you do try not to say other sororities names So for example, if you were in Theta and wanted to talk about Katie shakedown Then you could just say shakedown or a dance competition I participated in so yeah Just try to say only your sorority's name also sometimes P&M's can ask very uncomfortable questions Like tears or rankings or something they heard about on Greek rank if you're a P&M watching this Please do not even touch a Greek forum because they're just stupid But anyways, they will kind of ask those uncomfortable questions Don't shoot it down immediately because the P&M's gonna feel really confused But just try to bring it back slowly to your sorority in a positive light So like I said recruitment week is a very very long week one day. You might be PMSing the other day You might not be so whatever it is any personal problems Just try not to let it affect how you treat the P&M's because that's just super unfair to them So if you aren't feeling your best one day, then maybe talk to someone talk to your membership chair If it's really that serious But hopefully you guys can push through it and end up talking to these girls So before starting recruiting you will find out that there are some rules and you must stick to them You definitely don't want to be the one to get your sorority in trouble You do get your littles this year and the girl you recruit might be your little in the future But do not do anything stupid. Don't break a rule just because you want that girl in your sorority Everything always works out in the end I know it gets a little tiring talking to so many people in a whole day But you have to keep that energy up and carry out that positive attitude throughout the whole day Because the last P&M that you talked to at the end of the day Should feel like she was the first P&M that you talked to try to think about recruitment as a party every single day You're meeting so many people you can be networking at this time too And even if the people that you do recruit don't join your sorority You can still be friends with them and there's such things as pan bigs and pan littles So if you really wanted this girl to be your little and she goes to another sorority You can always make her your pan little It's honestly really cool to have friends in different sororities because that makes going to their philanthropy event So much more fun when you actually know people and then they introduce you to their friends And it's just like an ongoing domino effect and you get to meet so many people you get to network And it's just really exciting also definitely try to remember these girls names that you do recruit Because you most likely will be seeing them in the pan world I think that my favorite part about being on the inside of recruitment is just being with my sisters stuck in a house for pretty much a whole week and Just getting delusional by the end of the day like we literally have like dance parties and Everyone just gets so like funny and crazy and throughout the whole week I get to know my sisters a little bit better just because everyone is so much more vulnerable and speaking of that We have a candle passing at the end of recruitment and basically what that is is just like a vent sesh Like you can literally say anything that you want and I always like ball my eyes out I like to cry sometimes. It's good for you, you know But anyways, I just feel like such a strong bond with my chapter after it ends because after recruitment's done Everyone's just so happy and excited to get the new pledge class So the morale is definitely on an all-time high at that point It's just my favorite part because the feelings like definitely Undescribable if you think about it last year at the time of recruitment You were on the other side. You were like looking up to these sisters You were thinking of them as your role models and wanting to be one of them And now you are one of them and honestly you kind of have an advantage over older sisters because you probably can remember How it was like going through recruitment a little bit better than they can like I personally can't remember my recruitment experience But good thing I've logged it link in description But I feel like first-year recruiters definitely have more of a sense of relating to the P&M Just because they just went through the same process that they're going through now Overall, this is the time to bring in great girls to carry on your chapter's legacy So take this time to remember why you joined why you fell in love with it and what made your love grow stronger for your sorority You want to recruit girls who can represent your chapter for its values and everything that it is For years to come so I hope you guys enjoyed this video If you guys have any more questions about the first-year recruiting comment them down below And I will try my best to answer them sometimes I do get asked questions that I'm not really allowed to answer So just a disclaimer there, but I hope you guys are excited for your first year on the inside and good luck with the recruiting I will see y'all in my next video. Bye guys


It is September 1st, 2015. We are in Vancouver and the interviewer, as usual, will be William McCran. So we're just going to start with a few simple questions. So could you please state your full name? My full name is Clarence Mark Rebliatti. Rebliatti. Yes. Apologies. And your age? I'm 72. And where exactly were you born? In Lytton, British Columbia, and that's at the confluence of the Thompson and Fraser Rivers. It's a village, eh? Yes, pretty. Populations of approximately 500 people. And as a child, what did your parents do? Well, my mother was a homemaker in the traditional sense of the era. My father worked in the family general store and he ran the butcher shop side of it. But the business, they sold hardware, clothing, groceries, everything it takes to supply it to a small town. And then the family business was sold. He opened his own butcher shop. But then to add to that, he bought a cattle ranch. So he was able to supply a fair number of cattle that he needed to supply and he did that all through the war, the Second World War. And he got tired of that and he sold the ranch and sold the business and then bought some construction equipment for highway building, but not ran that for about 15 or 20 years. So there was a downturn in the economy, but he had an opportunity to join one of the large construction firms based in Vancouver who had contracts to produce specialty concrete aggregate for the Columbia River and Peace River dam systems. And then that kept him going for no more than 15 years until he retired. And you as a child, what were your past times or interests? Well, I was active, didn't read much, but I did as a younger child, rode my bike, delivered papers, went fishing down in the Thompson River and some of the other Stein kayak near Lytton, trout steelhead, spring salmon, and you could actually fish them in those days. Yeah, I did that. I had two horses, so even as a 14-year-old, we went 35 miles, so it's at 50 k's back in the coast range, stayed about 10 days or so, thought nothing of it. And as I got older and had a driver's license at 16, then we did a lot of hunting, but we did trophy hunt. We hunted to fill the freezer and it was fresh air and exercise. I climbed every mountain you can see from Lytton. Activities like that. So already an explorer. Well, a little bit of fresh air, a few adrenaline rushes. And at one point, did you develop an interest for science or in school, was that something you excelled at? Well, to be honest about school, I didn't excel in anything. It's something you did. It wasn't a priority in my life, it should have been, but it wasn't.  There were a couple of kind of prospect or type followers that did it part-time that were always looking for someone just to come along, so they ran out alone and it seemed like a good idea to drive up the freezer and walk up in the mountains and prospect. I didn't really have any idea what I was doing other than maybe carrying us lunch and a jacket, but it was out. And then for fun, in February, March, when the freezer was really low, we'd go down and pan for gold just to see what we could find in here or not. Ever find anything? Well, yeah, it lit and the gold is very, very fine. They have your nuggets of the long dropped out and it's super fine.  But it was nothing getting like fifty or a hundred flakes, but it still added up to no weight. Yeah. It was so fine. You had to do it. You'd freeze your fingers. And so after primary school, high school, what did you decide to do? Well, once I graduated from high school in Lytton, I think my mother had everything packed up and we left Lytton about the next day, moved to Vancouver, and then… Oh, it all worked out in time with your high school graduation? Yeah. My father wasn't working in Lytton anymore, he was working all over the province, so it didn't really matter where we lived. And my mother had been from Vancouver in her early days, had just more opportunities and more cultural activities, shall I say, than one movie a week at the Legion Theatre. So I came down here and then my brother, who took Geological Engineering at UBC, saw that I was at Lusens and suggested I might enjoy attending the British Columbia and Yukon Chamber Mines prospecting night school course. So that started in the fall of 63 and then went to the end of March or whatever, 64. So I figured that by then I knew everything I wanted to know about prospecting and knocked on the doors of every mining company in Vancouver for about two months, finally got hired and then in May of 64 off I went into the bush and the rest is history. How long was your class? Oh, it was two hours once a week for four months or something like that. It was probably 50% social and 50% extra learning things. But there was Dr. Harry Warren, who was very well known in the industry, was one of the lecturers and then Dr. Dirt, the Templar and the Cluette, who was a grad student at UBC at the time, but I knew him because he was a classmate of my brothers. They were both very enthusiastic speakers and very personable and that increased my level of interest in mineral exploration.  And you see all the wild animals and all that, this is neat for sure. And at that time was because, I mean, the mining industry can often be quite cyclical. When you were knocking on doors, was it a hard period? Were they hiring a lot? No, everybody was just waiting for the snow to melt. Okay. It was March, April, and nobody left town until May, so that's what that was. So when I was out in the bush in the summer of 64, one of the other, one of my co-workers had applied to the Hellebrae School of Mines, which was, they renamed it to the Provincial Institute of Mining, and he had applied and was rejected, couldn't have the prerequisite courses from high school, and he threw the calendar in the garbage box. I had read every novel and camp at that point, so I pulled the calendar out, read it and said, hey, that's not bad. It's a two-year course. You do one year and you only get one year left. So I sent my $20 away or whatever and applied and was accepted. So I did the two years at Hellebrae and graduated there in the spring of 66. And while I was there, a recruiter came around from Michigan Tech or Michigan Technological University. They had a mining department at Michigan Tech that was short of students and they were on the verge of, if their enrollment dropped any more, the university thing was shutting the mining department down, so I got in. But while I was in my first, they were on the quarter system there, so in the first quarter, one of the courses I had to take was a mineralogy course over in the geology department. Anyway, I found the geology department far more stimulating than the mining department designing pillars and underground coal mine versus looking for middle deposits for the daylight. So as each quarter progressed, I had signed up for one less mining course and one more geology course. Okay. So anyway, then I graduated in 69 with a bachelor's degree in geological engineering. And what would you consider your first job in that field? Well, the first summer I was in the bush, you know, line cutter, soil sampler, the camp grunt, whatever had to be done. I did it. It was a learning curve, but then I was always working with people with more experience. And so I had a summer's four months' experience before I even went to Halebury, then I worked every summer all the way through until I finished the university. First job in graduating from Michigan Tech was with what was geophysical engineering and surveys limited, but that was a tech corp company, and I was based in Bathurst, New Brunswick. Oh. So then I was... I'm from Camelton. Camelton, yeah. Right next door. But a year and a half, and then they closed that office. They offered me an opportunity to go to... I think they had an office in Shabugamo, but I was from British Columbia, and Shabugamo seemed like the wrong direction. You wanted to get back here eventually? Well, I wasn't particularly interested in going to Shabugamo. I didn't speak French, and well, I just came back. All right. Got a job with Silver Standard. That's kind of the old Silver Standard where they just shut down the Silver Standard mine up at Hazelton, where the mine's over, and they were running a number of exploration programs in the Yukon and BC, and I joined Jim McCausel and there in their Stakeen Arch program. In the summer of 1971, that led to the... We put in a discovery trench of the Red Chris deposit, though at the time, gold was still $35 an ounce, so we actually did an assay for gold, we asked for copper and silver and molybdenum, but we had a couple hundred meters of about 0.28% copper. We realized we had a broad zone. We laid out a proposed drilling program. Asarco was the joint venture partner with Silver Standard, they put up most of the money in Silver Standard around the program, but Asarco decided it didn't meet their criteria for their minimum criteria, so the project at that point didn't go ahead. Subsequently, other people picked it up and now Pearl Metals is operating a $35,000 ton of demine, and they've taken about a $2 billion ton of resource there now. So, I played a small role very early on. So could you just go through the big steps in your career and then we'll go back? Silver Standard, I joined New Connick's Canadian Exploration Limited, which was the Canadian controlled subsidiary of Consolidated Goldfields, London, England, originally founded by Cecil Rhodes. I was with them for seven years, and in 1977, working with Dr. Peter Fox, they put in the first, I'd say, the discovery drill hole on the QR deposit, which went into production. It's mined out now, small deposit, I don't remember the resource, three or four hundred thousand ounces, but it was open pit, about three grams per ton. And they consolidated their Canadian and U.S. operations into one company that was, Goldfields did. I was offered the opportunity to join their U.S. group, which I declined, and I worked for the Saskatchewan Mining Development Corporation in the Exploration Division, Northern Saskatchewan. I spent a couple of years looking for uranium. I had an opportunity working with Anaconda in Vancouver, so I came back to Vancouver. I enjoyed Saskatoon very much, a great place, great weather, but it was cold in the winter, but it was bright and sunny, so less rain, more sunshine hours. Seriously. So back here. Well, then I was with Anaconda for a year, Saskatchewan Mining Development Corporation opened an office, we're currently playing opening an office in Vancouver, and they invited me to rejoin them. I didn't have much interest, but they kept upping the offer. So then when it was up to about 50% higher than I was then currently making, I relented. That was great for about a year and a half, and then the Saskatchewan NDP lost election, and then the new government shut down and everything outside of Saskatchewan. But when I was in Saskatoon, I am sure I was the only employee of the Saskatchewan Mining Development Corporation that had a B.C. social credit party membership. I had my membership card pinned over my desk, so it was always the far right wing versus the somewhat left wing. So it was a curiosity within the organization. Let's see. So then we were in an economic downturn. The mining industry had not fared well when the NDP had been in power in British Columbia, and I was going consulting when the SMVC job ended, but I was uncertain because they got in the game. I could see the exploration end of the business cratering, and then I had spoken to Dr. Hugh Square, who was then Selco, trying to market some of SMV's projects that I had acquired for them. And then in the process, he got back to me and offered me a job with Selco, so then I had a decision to either stay on my own or do I take what looked like a secure job. So I went with Hugh, a great fellow, a great mentor, learned a lot from him. But within one year, so that way it would have been in 1983, BP, British Petroleum Mineral Division, bought out Selco, finally ended up working for BP. And that was a whole other group of people with an order of magnitude, greater bureaucracy. I think in the Vancouver office, they were more interested in internal politics and finding minds. That lasted until January of 1986, and I was given the opportunity to seek employment elsewhere. And all of the projects that I had been involved in were put on the shelf. So after a month of, you know, like, where should I go from here? I went back to them and offered to option three of my former projects, three out of the six that I'd been running, but they turned me down and said they didn't think I had the financial wherewithal to do anything with them. So no, and I mentioned two of them that, well, you put them on the shelf, you're not financing them, so they're just going to sit there and mold. Anyway, they said no, so I went away and thought about it, so a week or two later I went back and said I would be willing to market those projects to other companies on their behalf at no cost to them. They couldn't understand that, but I went for a finder's fee. Well, I was signed off, and they went for it, and they gave me one month. So anyway, signed the paper at the office on the eighth floor, pressed ground, went down the elevator out the door, an acquaintance of mine walked by, and I said, Lauren, I have a project for you. Talked to him for about ten minutes on the sidewalk. We went back in, pressed the button to the eighth floor, cut the deal. So that was easy money. Then I had another project. It was a bit of a long shot, but I was able to link it to a good marketing story, and I marketed that one to Lornex, and that was in the real Tintel fold, a real Algon fold. That one took me about a week to market, but the one I liked the most was the Mount Milligan project, and I went to 23 companies, and it took me to, I can't remember all, but about the 28th or the 29th day of my one month that I had available before I was able to cut a deal on that one, and then from there of its history, the group that I marketed to, they ran the project themselves the first year. They were not particularly successful, and the geologists that they had hired to run their project wrote a very negative report. I was invited back as a consultant for three days to review all the data and give an opinion, and I said, well, there had been good work done, and a fair area had been eliminated, but the area that I felt was the most prospective still hadn't been touched. So I read a three-page memo or whatever, and said, but I'd like to run the project, so I was hired on as a consultant. The first, the second, and the third of my holes all hit, and that was the Mount Milligan discovery, and then, so that was 87, put those holes in, and then 87, 88, in the fall of 88 November, then the Hunter Dickinson group came in, and we had about 60 holes at that point, and then in 89 we discovered the Southern Star. Mount Milligan, if you put the two pits on them, the two pits coalesce, so it basically becomes one pit, and it's all rolled in, but they're really two separate deposits, Mount Milligan, Maine, if you like, and then the Southern Star, and then I ran that, but that was 100 people, 24-7, and as project manager you're the chief geologist, you're the project manager, you're the marriage counselor, you're the judge, the jury, pretty challenging, so I got burned out, so in May or whatever of 1990, of course I'd drill out like 720 drill holes by them, and then through the, moving more into the engineering field, and I was tired of being there, you know, another old Atco trailer night, so I stepped aside from that. This was with Hunter Dickinson, or were you still? Well, it was Continental Gold, but Continental Gold was managed by the Hunter Dickinson group, but then I knew everybody in the group, and the Hunter Dickinson group, then there was David Copeland, Ron Teeson, and Bob Hunter, they ran their own show, separate from Hunter Dickinson, Bob Hunter had his foot in both camps, but then in 1990 the two groups kind of merged full time, so I had about a month off, and then a friend of mine that I'd worked with at SNVC, was the director of a company that was broke, had some mineral claims up in the Teutagon of North-Central British Columbia, and said, Mark, the company's got some mineral claims, they're going to expire in a week, they have no money, we'll have to pay cash in lieu of doing work, and that's going to be my own personal money, and I want to know if the project is worthwhile, and he said, I want to hire you for a half hour. So I said, Jim, for a half hour, you're only going to get a yes or a no, but no technical rationale, because it's just, you know, in the consulting business, you just don't do that. Anyway, we went to the Bombay Cycle Club for lunch, but they used to call them beer parlors, and they served hamburger and fries, so he went, that was the lunch he was buying me. So we went down there, he handed me the report, yeah, he was just going to have all the regional geology, all that stuff, he skipped all that, I went to the back, we had all the assays, they had about a dozen old drill holes, I just looked at the assays, copper, gold, copper, gold, and I've been through like 700 volts a million, and then anyway, then I just closed, I didn't read any of it, I just looked at the assays, so he kept waiting for me to say something, hamburgers came, I think we had a coffee after the beer, he said, what do you think? I said, pay cash in lieu, and that was it, he said thanks, he phoned me back a couple of days later and said he had, and I said, well, you know, if I ever hear of anybody that's looking for a property of merit, let me know, let me know if you're willing to farm the project out, and I knew it'd be desperate to do that, because you put up with some money, and so, and then it's important with this property of merit, because I was consulting to the superintendent of brokers who managed the Vancouver juniors for the stock exchange in the government, and for them to raise funds, they had to have a professional engineer sign off that the property was of merit rather than just a piece of loose pasture, so I knew this project would qualify in that sense. That was almost a secret committee, the industry at large knew the committee was there, but they didn't know who the committee members were, because you could take a lot of flak if you said the property wasn't of merit, if I'm not. So you have to remain anonymous. Yeah, that was part of it, so I let a month go by, and then I phoned my friend Jim back, Jim Camine back, and said, Jim, are you sure that you're looking for somebody to come in? He said, oh yeah, he's desperate. So I went down the hall about 20 feet to Dave Copeland and Ron Teeson, said I have another mailigan for you, and by this time I had read through the report, Jim left the report with me. So you knew your yes was a good yes? Yeah, yeah, so I went through it, and I said, hey, these guys don't know what they have, the geology has been misinterpreted. Now I had had the experience to have looked at the Copper Mountain deposits, the Afton deposits, and the original Afton was all supergene, and the company that had Camus initially had only drilled into the supergene, and they used an RC rig, so they were just cuttings. This brick-red clay-like material with little flakes of native copper, and it assayed for gold, and they had no idea what it really represented, and I realized what it looked like for upper part of Afton. So we went in there, and we drilled about 50 consecutive orc-grade holes. And then from there there was the historic. The historic Camus property was actually six kilometers to the north, and we renamed it Camus North, and the new discovery which was on Camus Creek, we called it Camus South, and they're six kilometers apart. So after we got Camus South going, and we expanded our mapping up there, and we had a look at it, and said, you know, there were a couple of old holes that Kennecott had put in in the late 60s or early 70s, but they were, it was AX, you know, it's about half inch core, and core recovery is about 12%. So hey, they've demonstrated that the copper there, in this environment, there should be gold. So we went in and put in a couple of holes, and we had copper low-grade, copper and gold, but every sample topped the bottom, said, okay, we're into a system that shows great continuity. We have to work on the grades a bit, but you know, we only started in one spot, so it's a large alteration zone. So we worked on that, but probably 90% of our efforts went into Camus South, an area immediately around it, and we grabbed enough dollars to drill a few more holes whenever we could, and we had expanded Camus North from nothing up to about 150 million tons, but at that point it was still open in all directions. But then Alicandor felt that they could add more value by progressing the engineering at Camus South, so the expiration of Camus North shot down, and then in due course, Royal Oak Peggy Whitty came in, took over Alicandor, put the early efforts into getting Camus South going, but as we exited the project we wrote a report laying out a drill pattern on Camus North, about their first 10 holes or so were right on the proposed drill collars, and then they never looked back, and then they bought the geological resource or inferred resource of up to over 600 million tons, and they ran into permitting challenges on getting Camus North going. But anyway, Peggy put Camus South into production, ran into a falling copper gold market, Northgate came in, refinanced it, ran it, and that was a very successful mine that ran for eight or nine years, produced almost three million ounces of gold and several hundred million pounds of copper. That was good. And then from there I worked on the prosperity project in the caribou, that's copper gold, the casino property in the Yukon, copper gold and molybdenum, and then Daryl Johnson and Dave Jennings and I went down to look at a massive sulphide project in Mexico, Campo Morado in Guerrero State, and we then looked at it, and it was very obvious, again, the people that had it didn't really recognize the potential, not necessarily of the historical deposit that was mined just before and into the Mexican Revolution and then idle since. They didn't really realize what was there, but I'd been through Myra Falls and then I'd been to several massive sulphide mines and massive sulphide districts. And I said, hey, we have a district potential here because there are other prospects there, and so Dave Jennings and others and Hunter Dickinson Group then put together a land package. And then we went down and basically we didn't look back. We expanded the historical deposit from about 3 million tons to 10 million tons of massive sulphide, not necessarily all or great because there also were metallurgical challenges there, it was a very, very fine grain, but we went on to discover six more deposits and collectively about 50 million tons of massive sulphide. The metallurgy was, well, the combination of the metallurgy and the grade, the tougher the metallurgy, the higher the costs, and so then you need the higher grades to cover the higher costs. But anyway, in due course it went into production about 1,500 tons a day and the G9 deposit was the high enough grade to get it all going, but then into the current slump in metal prices, it's the mine shut down now, it's uneconomic, and also the social scene and drarrow has deteriorated with the cartels, drug cartels moving in, and it was a wee bit sketchy when we went in initially, but we got on very well. We had a John Arthur, Johnny Arturo, as the locals called him, had spent 20 years in Bolivia, fluent in Spanish, was just a little guy, very gregarious, and he went and talked to everybody, you know, they lived in these little mud huts, adobe huts, all already talked to them all, and so before we built a road anywhere, we'd go and talk to them and he could tell they weren't too pleased about a road going in a certain place, and I said, well, we'd be okay if we built the road on the other side, because obviously they had a marijuana plantation over there, they didn't know what road was going by, so they say, well, can you wait, we're ready to harvest, wait till we finish harvesting, so we just had to get along with them, you know, it was an hour issue, and these people were only making a few thousand dollars a year, you know, they got paid next to nothing, and they grew pole beans on the corn, and then they had squash or pumpkins growing underneath, and that was their only income, and at one point we had about almost a hundred of them working, line cutting, soil sampling, helping with the surveyors, and we had a lot of ladies working on the camp, assisting the cooks and looking housekeeping, you know, those types of chores, so we brought a lot of employment there, so we're very pleased, and then of course Hunter Dickinson Group was always looking for the next project, and then they went from one company to three companies to five companies, so there were more companies to feed with new projects, but a lot of time, now looking at projects, Alaska, BC, the lower 48, and then through Central America and all over South America, and but one project that kept popping up on the radar screen was Cominco, well it was Cominco then, but then initially the Tech Cominco, now it was a project they called Pebble Beach, because it was kind of Tundra, Rolling Hills, it's like a golf course, okay, and it's Pebble Beach in California. We looked at it, I was first became aware of it in 1990, and it was kind of always one of interest, and whenever we had a meeting discussed, you know, where, what should we look at next, where should we go, it would come up, a couple approaches were made to Tech, they, well Tech Cominco at that time, they weren't interested then around 2001, 2002, they said well we will entertain and often, see we had, the Hunter Dickinson group had picked up the prosperity project from Cominco, and they had done quite well in that, and so anyway, Bob Dickinson, Ron Dees, and negotiated an agreement with Pebble, and then I think 72, we did a small program, geochemistry, geophysics, a few drill holes, and then in 73 we started drilling in earnest, and we basically didn't look back, with Pebble about 60%, see Cominco had done about a hundred drill holes at that point, but about 60% of those holes bottomed in about 0.3 copper equivalent, you take the value of the copper or the gold in the molybdenum, convert it to dollars and then convert it back into copper, okay, so that's copper equivalent, it's a little more complicated than that, but that's the overview, so that's 60% of the holes bottomed in 0.3 or better, but 30% of the holes bottomed in 0.6 copper equivalent or better, and what's the cutoff, like what's, well you know copper prices, but you'd want about 0.2 copper, copper or better, and so with Pebble, if you had 0.2 copper, you'd probably be in the 0.3 copper equivalent range, and so Cominco had roughed out a non-43-101 compliant inferred resource of approximately a billion tons, well by the end of 2004 we had increased that to four billion tons, okay, at that point in December of 2003, well in 2003 I went and looked at a couple of porphy prospects in China, and I heard about one in Tibet, so in December of 2003 I went to Tibet and looked at it, but I was doing Pebble, so it was just a quick trip over and back, and I recommended the Hunter-Dixon's and acquire the Tibetan porphy, well it was it was epitherm, it was an epithermal prospect with a copper occurrence on the other side of the mountain, anyway I said it's great big alterations, so it looks interesting, we should try and kind of deal on it, so it was back to back to Pebble, then we, that was for the December of 2003, so in 2004 we saw that Pebble was absolutely wide open, and that the intensity of the alteration was increasing going to the east, the court stock work was becoming more intense going to the east, the grades of all three metals were increasing to the east, so I recommended we drill, the mining engineers said we have four billion tons, that's enough for 40 years, we don't need anymore, and then I was over in China getting that project, over in Tibet, getting that project going, and at a board meeting they made a decision that they wouldn't drill outside of the proposed pit, I'm saying it's getting better and better going to the east, so anyway the directive came down, no drill holes beyond the outside edge of the pit, so I puzzled over that for a week or two, so anyway I had a drill come free and would just say this is the outside of the pit, I stepped back about 15 meters, drilled a hole 60 degrees outwards, but I had the drill inside the pit, when I had about 400 meters of good ore grade mineralization, I had a second drill come free, so I moved it over 400 meters and did the same thing, and so when the second hole was about halfway down, the first drill rig was finished its hole, then I had a third rig come up, did the same thing again, then I told Bob Dickinson what I've done, but by then I knew we had it in a bag, I read about that, yeah, whatever it was, you know, 800 plus 830 meters of 1.48% copper, over 800 meters, way better, so it was like, you know, over a half a mile. Wow, and what was the real reason they didn't want to expand? Oh, they had 40 years of resource, but I said, well, how do you know where to put your plant? You may put the plant on top of the rest of the deposit, and it turned out, so we added six billion tons, and about four billion tons was about twice the grade of the earliest four billion tons, and so what is there's, what are 107 million ounces of contained gold, 80, 85 billion pounds of copper, and six or seven billion pounds of molly, and lots of silver. Oh, anyway, did that, okay, so I was doing that, but at the same time I had the project going in Tibet, and we did mapping and sampling in 2004 to figure out what's going on, started drilling in 2005, in 2005, 2006, and 2007, and each year we added two million ounces of gold and a billion pounds of copper, so in three years we had six million ounces of gold and three billion pounds of copper, and then the group exited, Tibet and China at that point, sold out to a Chinese company. Okay, so how many companies does Hunter Dickinson manage now? They have about 10, some are more active than others. Biggest than they've ever been, or? Yes. And are you still, do you still work full-time, or retired, or? This year I'm on call, I'm a living archive, Mark, what happened in 97, such a such a place. Last year I worked about two days a week, averaged over the year, I had weeks that I happily did nothing, and then I'd work a week or ten days straight. As came up the year before, I worked three days a week, but before that I worked full-time. Okay. This would be my 51st year in the industry, so it's, you know, time to slow down. Yeah, for sure, but it's a recurring theme in these interviews, is everybody seems to, yeah, slow down, but never exit the game. It's an addiction, and it's exciting, you're in the front end.  Where would you say is your favorite place you travel to for work, or most memorable place? Well, do you like the place, or did you have the most success? Both, or? Really, the tougher it is, the tougher it was, the more stories you have to tell. If it's just something on the side of the road up in the caribou, well, it's just a normal day, right? Yeah. Well, the toughest was the Solomon Islands, 100 degrees Fahrenheit or whatever it is, 38 degrees Celsius, 100% humidity, malaria, lead in mosquitoes, the other mosquitoes carry dangly fever. I did a traverse, and, you know, your body just reeks in that weather, and we're in a camp, and it was a lousy camp, and it was someone else's project, and I would do a bit of consulting on it. And anyway, it was going to be the last ace, I wanted to do a traverse up on the ridge, and it's all jungle and everything, so I go all the way up and over, and I come down, and we'd come in on our, it wasn't quite a dugout canoe, it was made out of boards, but the same shape. We'd come in off an inlet and then up a mangrove swamp to the most of a river, so I told the local guys that's where I was going to end up, you know, at noon, so I come down, and I'm right at the mouth, and it's really hot and yucky, so I've got my little pack and my clipboard and everything, and hold it over my head in the way to, right across, put it on the far bank, and the water felt pretty good, and you're so sweaty, you're so kind of wet, so I just stood there.  Wow. Anyway, there it goes.  Fun story. Good story to tell. Yeah. So that was pretty exciting, but it was a very challenging place to work. The locals had minimal education, maybe grade two, grade four, they'd never really been anywhere, and then at year, we hadn't been able to explain to them adequately well to sort out the difference between North America, South America, and the country called America. Yeah. Okay. So then you go there and you have a community meeting and you try to explain to them why you're there and what you're going to be doing, and they had no comprehension of what mining was. So that was a real challenge. And then you had to do anything you had to deal with the Chinese bureaucracy because they ran the government, but you're working in the Tibetan community. Yeah, which is already tricky. And so then the Tibetans would see that you're working with the Chinese and the Tibetans aren't so keen on the Chinese administering Tibet. Chinese were perceived to be looking down on the Tibetans and we were in the middle. So we're okay. Everything went fine, but you were never fully comfortable that they were going to continue to go fine. But anyway, we had lots of success and no incidents. And we worked out a kind of a community-wide compensation package for any disturbance of the land because they raised their cows and yaks and donkeys and goats and sheep up in the hillsides where we're building drill sites and whatnot. So anyway, we worked something out that based on the number of square meters disturbed and so they could buy alternate feed until we had a chance to replant and those sorts of things. So it went well. That was a very exciting project, but again we drilled dozens of holes one after the other in ore grade, in good grade. That was the problem. So we had about 200 million tons of about 0.6 grams of gold for 0.47 percent copper and around four grams of silver, strip ratio around one to one, starting right at surface. So that was pretty exciting. Nothing would beat pebble, but in 2005 and 2006 I had 12 to 14 drills pulling ore grade holes in Tibet and then I had six rakes pulling long, good grade intersections of pebble, all going on simultaneously. So it's hard to beat those two years. And then the next year was okay too, but every rough something out and it's just infill drilling and then that's work. Are there any dysfunctional jobs or projects that you worked on? Yeah, SMDC, the exploration division was exploration manager, nice guy. But he came out of McGill, he had been a professor, was totally academic and not practical at all and that was always a challenge. So that was probably the toughest one from that perspective. Do you have any examples of how the academic did work with the practical? They wanted these sample groundwater to identify water that had, say, higher than average uranium content and most water is virtually none. So even low concentrations would be anomalous. And then they thought, well, if you go to a groundwater emergent area, like a spring, that would work well. And they came up with the idea, well, rivers would be better because they'd be collecting the water from all the springs. But the Fond du Lac River had a fair current, well, just go out in the wintertime on the ice. Well, lake ice and river ice are quite different and the lake ice can be solid and two meters thick. The river ice is like flaky pastry or can be, especially with the currents. So it's like all ice and air bubbles. And you could just drop through it. So you could put a crew out in that and it's minus 30. And if you go through the ice and the current wash, you're gone. And then working with water when it's 20, 30, 40 below. And it went to minus 50 Celsius for five days. So that wasn't practical. And that was the extreme of the concepts. It would have been okay if we were just sitting in the office discussing it, but to try and implement it. It wasn't going to work. Did you join any organizations throughout your career? Yes. Well, in, when was it? 1971, 1972. I was eligible to join and I did join the professional engineers association of British Columbia. I had been a CI member in, when I was in Halebury in the 60s. That membership may have, but I didn't continue it, but I was busy away, whatever. But I've been a member for now out of 20 more years or whatever, whatever the records say. I remember the Society of Economic Geologists had been a member of the SME. That's a US organization. The British Columbia and Yukon Chamber of Mines, which is AMBC now. That would be it for professional organizations. I'm a member of the Technical Advisory Committee for Geoscience British Columbia. It's on the Vancouver MEG group, Mineral Exploration Group. It's informal.  There's no dues, but organize a speaker once a month for about seven months a year. If it's a highly technical presentation, that's fine. But if Joe Prospector finds a brand new occurrence that's exciting, well, then that person may give a presentation of how he found it. And then the audience is not meant to ask tough questions. You know, you respect this. Maybe the only time this person's ever given a presentation of their lives. So you get the full cross-section there. I was involved in that in the executive for about four years. I worked from my way up from the bottom to the top of that. I'm on the review committee for APIG, so Professional Engineers and Geosciences. So if there's an applicant applies and it's turned down, they can appeal. And I'm a member of the appeal committee. So that must be interesting. Yeah, it is. Yeah, because you have people, local people, for whatever reason, maybe they didn't present themselves well. Or perhaps their application was, say, partly incomplete or not concise enough to people from other parts of the world that could have 10 or 30 years experience for whatever reason in British Columbia now. So you get to meet them all, talk to them. Now, just moving a bit more into social questions, I guess. In terms of women, how absent or present were women in the workplace? In my workplace, from 64 to about 77, there were none. When I went to university in mining engineering, physical metallurgy, geology and geological engineering, there was one girl enrolled. Okay, so I'll give you the balance there or the imbalance there. But in the late, mid to late 70s, women started enrolling in the, enrolling in the geological and, say, mining engineering, metallurgical sciences. And then they started being in the camps. They were, instead of hiring second world war veterans who had been cooks in the war, they were all getting older and retiring. And then the company started hiring, say, students in dietetics and nutrition or ladies getting their first aid certificates and cooking, because they're in the camp so that they can be first aid attended and cook at the same time. So that changed the dynamics, but it also impacted when the work was done, because Twin Otter would come in with eight barrels of fuel. You'd grab two geologists, send them down to the lakeshore and unload the fuel. Well, you couldn't grab two lady geologists in Shenandoah and just physically didn't have the strength. So that changed the dynamics in the camp. Then we had to hire other people than to do the heavy work. And you couldn't really hire any more geologists, because if you need four, you only need four, but then we had to hire people to run the camp. So it changed that. And then, of course, there was a degree of socialization that then occurred. And so very often you would have, say the boss's daughter or a daughter that was acquaintance to the boss or one of the directors come in. So they might say high school kids, 17, 18, maybe first year university, maybe the first time away. Then you got a cap of guys. And then you had the others that were 25 and 30 and whatnot. So when they're 25 and 30, they can kind of look after themselves, but the younger ones, well, then you're not their parents. You have some responsibility. Where's the line? What's your, what do you need to know? What should you know? What should you act on? And there's no lines. I mean, there's really no guides either. And then what's your business and what isn't? You know, they're in a company camp. So if anything happens to them, if they're injured or whatever, well, that's company business. So what they do on a social scene, perhaps is none of your business. So that created a bit of stress for me or others that managed the camps at that point. But now, many of the projects are about 50-50, and that's ironed out. And let's say 50-50. Pretty close. I mean, it shifts, but 30-60 or 40-60. They're always there. But we're not getting the younger kids anymore. It's just not an interesting thing for them or for you guys. The industry's changed. It's more hardcore now. You have to be able to contribute. We're not at a family employment agency, which it was more like that. You hire my son, I'll hire yours. That really isn't happening anymore. I'm not going to say zero, but it's less inclined to be. But it's softened the camps. It's softened the camps? Yeah, they're less rough. There's less swearing. There's no Playboy pictures on the walls anymore. That's gone to zero. A little more civilized. Which would encourage more participation from women if there's less Playboys on the walls. In the olden days, whatever that was, when somebody, the boss, came in the camp. We always used to bring them all with scotch. Firstly, all the camps are dry now. End of story. They're dry. Was that ever an issue when you were managing? The further north you were and the more of the northern people there were, yes, it became issues. It's actually people who aren't sober while on the job? They smuggle in a 40-pounder, and they drink the whole thing in one night. They've got fist fights and tents were coming down. Then you got to clean up in the morning, and then they're too sick to work. They've made enemies. You have to get the job done, and then you've got to iron all that out. When I did Melligan, I had a driller's helper make a derogatory comment to my first aid attendant about his perceived sexual orientation. The first aid attendant took exception to what the driller's helper sat. They kind of lingered on in the evenings in the dining hall. The first aid attendant grabs a steak knife and goes at the driller's helper who was like twice as big and five times stronger. He takes the knife away and puts it up to this guy's throat. Then just threw the knife away and told the guy to get out. I'd been in Vancouver. The flight was delayed, getting back to Prince George. It's a four-hour drive to get the camp. There was a blizzard. It's two o'clock in the morning I arrive, and here's the first aid attendant. He was on day shift walking around with a chainsaw that was running. Now, it surprised me he even got the chainsaw started. Anyway, I pulled up in front of the cookhouse where the parking space was. I said, what on earth are you doing? I'm worried. He walked around and said, well, that driller, you know, I'm going to get him. There's my first aid attendant, intending to go after the driller's helper with a chainsaw. Like the first aid attendant. Anyway, I said, well, go back to your bunk and go to bed. Oh, I'm afraid. I said, well, sleep under the kitchen table that I was doing in the morning. He won't come in the kitchen looking for you. The next morning, of course, I got to fire the guy, but now I had no first aid attendant. So then you have to get on the phone and hire any first aid attendant from the closest town, get them in, drive the guy out, talk to the drill foreman, fire the driller's helper. Now you're going to lose the shift. So you fired both people. Oh, you had to. You had zero tolerance for that stuff. But you still got to run the project. So now you lose a shift or two on the drill and productivity drops. Your overhead still continues on. And then, you know, got to fire the wrong guy sometimes because nobody would really fess up and they knew something was going on. So you'd settle for two out of three. A coat of silence. And then, yeah, the coat of silence. And then one person perhaps was or wasn't involved, but then he's got a few buddies on the crew. So when you fire him, then their buddies quit. Drama. Stuff like that. Oh, yeah. Well, it's the big of the crew. But it kept life interesting.  But if we look at Canada specifically, do you think there is a disconnect between the mining industry and their, I guess, the general population? Population. Absolutely. And how can you explain that? How do you see that? Well, most people at Vancouver have no knowledge or rephrase that. Minimal knowledge of British Columbia beyond hope. And hope is that the head of the Fraser Valley is 90, what is it, 90 miles or whatever it is, 150 kilometers up the Fraser. Well, it's the beginning of the Fraser Canyon. Then they know the Okanagan wine district and they don't know anything about the rest of the, perhaps never been to Pritch George or maybe only went through once 25 years ago. They all have cell phones. They all fly to Hawaii or Mexico for vacations. No idea where metal comes from. You don't have metal.  No connect whatsoever. They only hear or say the bad things. They have no idea the amount of employment, the mining and mineral exploration industry creates in Vancouver, all the lawyers doing the agreements, all the consultants working here, all the environmental analyses or environmental analyses in addition to the regular exploration analyses. Most of that's based in Vancouver. No knowledge of that whatsoever. It's exported. Any product is exported. It generates foreign currency to offset the money they spend flying on their vacations to other parts of the world. So it's a challenge. That's vastly underappreciated. Yeah. Now in terms of, I guess you've had a lot of experience and worked in many, many different places. So in your opinion, are there specific events, disasters, advancements, people that need to be mentioned when talking about the recent history of the natural resources in Canada? Well, for myself, Hugh Square was probably Dr. Hugh Square. It's a Selco VP. It was probably the person who I gained the most from a mentoring sense. Then you connect Bob Dickinson and Ron Teeson. In the earlier days, Bob Hunter and their capacity to raise funds. I went to Campo Morado and Rod says, how much money are you going to need? I said, 10 million. He says, okay, start work. Pebble, it's the same question. I said, I'll need all you can raise. So we spent a hundred, Pebble, we spent in the order of $150 million in drilling alone. Well, Dr. Harry Warren has probably began the application of chemistry to the geochemical aspect of mineral exploration. When I first ran into him in the fall of 63, he was talking about the copper content in rainbow trout livers in the Babine Lake. That lake stood out amongst other lakes. For the copper content, and of course there is bell copper and whatever the other one, just down the lake was. The perfect copper deposits and just through natural processes, some of the copper was getting into the waterways and the fish that make the critters. The copper was concentrating the livers, not to a toxic extent, but up levels high enough to be able to detect with the instrumentation that was available the day. Dr. Harry Warren received the gold medal from the British Medical Association for his pioneering work and where he'd studied the lead content of lettuce relative to the distance from the Trans-Canada Highway. So the lead growing on the side of the road had a lot of lead because all the gasoline was leaded and further away there was less and less lead. That was one of the first environmental linkages between uptake of metal in plants. That was what was recognized and he got his gold medal for that. And then since then, I had to get paid to go fishing. That was good. So I've used geochemistry very extensively, water sampling, soil sampling, TIL, and then now with the new techniques, mass spec ICP, we used to analyze for three or four elements and now we think nothing of analyzing for 50 or 55 elements. And so some only occur in trace amounts, but you had higher trace amounts and now you can pick up anomalies distant from a deposit through the use of geochemistry. Of course geophysics has improved vastly. You have Beringer and Harry Siegel and those people that pioneered the geophysical and geochemical end of the industry. Drilling has vastly improved. We probably have probably four or five times the productivity now. Since when? Since you started. The industry has been since 64. And we'll finish on a few last questions. In life, I guess we can split it in half and make it a bit easier because it's often a tough question. What are you proud of and we could say in life in general and also professionally? It's hard to separate those. Yeah, it's hard to separate those. Well, industry-wise, I've been involved in the discovery of a number and whatever the number is, eight or nine, mineral deposits and about half of those either have been developed and gone into production or in the process of permitting and moving towards production and they've created hundreds of years of personal years of employment that makes you feel good. I'm one guy passing through but when 600 miners have a job for 25 years and they're supporting the families and whatnot, that's feel good. On a personal note, I didn't think I'd get to university level and come out and have what others perceive as a successful career and I feel it was one too. Sounds like family, two children, a son and a daughter. My brother was the first of the family to get a university degree and my grandparents came to Lytton in the mid-1880s. My dad had about grade six education. My mother had grade 11. My brother was the first of the family to have a degree. My daughter graduated from university. My son got into snowboarding. Freestyle initially, half pipes were about one meter high, now they're about 10 meters high now. But he also had done ski racing as Grouse Mountain, Tai-I ski club up in Grouse. He's usually in the top 10 if there are 100 kids racing and very often on the podium. They race mostly as teams so the team would come first, not the individual races, but we always kept track of everybody's times. But anyway, they had a new coach and as he moved up to the higher levels of skiing, they had a new coach. They didn't get along. So he sold off all the high-end ski equipment that I just bought. I bought a snowboard. Then that was in high school. Then he went to school and went snowboarding. Then he signed up for one of the colleges in Vancouver and then they had a strike. Then the principal said that, well, the strike's not settled by Friday. We'll refund tuition fees. I think he was first in the line to get his refund. We had a place at Whistler. He went straight to Whistler. He worked there, ski shops, whatnot. Then he snowboarding over 100% of the rest of the time. Then he won on many of the local races or was competitive in the local races. Started a race against Craig Kelly, the godfather of snowboarding, and beat him at the Mount Baker Bank Slalom. He won the overall championship for the US amateur snowboard championships until they found out he was a Canadian. He took the cup and all the loot away from him. But anyway, he won it. Then the same spring, he won the Canadian Amateur Championships out of Calgary, someplace. Then he wanted to go on. In winning the US and the Canadian Amateur Championships, he obtained a buy and he was able to go on the World Cup circuit without having to do the North American pro-circuit. He went over to Europe. Of course, before he went, he was like, I don't have a sponsor. Dad sponsored him, but on the proviso that his goal was to be the best in the world. There's no point going for something in the middle. In his first race, there were just over 100 competitors. He came about 87th. That was in a GS, which from my perspective was good because he thought he was good at winning the Amateur Championships. He told him where he really was. Then he did whatever number of races, 10 or 15 races before Christmas. Then he wanted to come home. I said, no way I'm paying the airfare. You're going to get back. You're going to be jet lagged. Go find a place. Anyway, he bucked in with some new acquaintance of his in Switzerland. Then he continued on. But by the end of the first year, he'd worked in the second seat. The first seat is the top 15. It might be the top 16 by whatever it is. The second seat is the next. In the top seat, you go down first. If you're 15, the ruts are only created by 15 people. You're in the second seat, the most is 30 people. But if you start 80th, you need a periscope to see it through the ruts. He worked himself into the second seat. In the second season over there, fairly early on, he got a second place. He got on the podium in Burmio, Italy. Then with a couple more races, he worked in the first seat. Then he was in the World Cup series eight years before the Olympics. In those eight years, he had one year where he was second overall, not solemn GS and Super G. Then in the shoulder years of that year, he was third overall. Pretty good. His main event that he's best at was the Superdance Lawn, which would be the snowboarders equivalent to a downhill. One year, there were only three of those races. He had a first, second, and a third of those races. He podiumed in all three. When the Olympics came on, it was only going to be GS. He was not a freestyler, so those are two separate disciplines. He qualified for the GS, and the rest is history. Yeah, he won gold. Now he's back to skiing. Yeah. I was going to say, when you said he switched out of skiing, I was a bit sad, because I'm a skier. Well, he's still snowboards, but you don't want to skiing now. So, well, he snowboarded for 20 years, and then he was on snow about 200 days a year, and training all 365, more or less. So, you have enough of that. You're living on a duffel bag. Europeans can go home for the weekend. Anybody from North America, you're away. The Austrians, they were supplied with cars, physiotherapists, they had a massage, they had a tent at the edges. Sponsors are pretty good. Canadian guys are up at night filing the gouges out of their board and fixing them up, and waxing themselves, and treat guys to a room. Your sports psychologist was your roommate, sleeping overnight in early stations. Different world. You get tired of that after a while. Sure. Last question, real quick. If you were to speak to someone much younger, like a student, for example, what's the one piece of advice or life lesson you could give them? Okay, if you're going to do an geology and mineral exploration, you have to have a master's degree, and you need an entrepreneurial bent, and you have to work on that side. It's a cyclical industry, and when there's lots of jobs, students enroll by time they graduate, or at the bottom of a trough, and there's no jobs, you have to be fleet of foot, flexible, and you've got to take whatever work you can generate. The other one is, seize every opportunity to go on every mine tour you possibly can, and the best rock to look at is drill core that starts outside the deposit, enters the alteration, so it goes through the deposit, comes out the other side, because that's what you're more likely to encounter when you're doing your exploration, because you rarely ever find or grade mineralization sticking out of the ground at surface, and learn to be able to assess what has the best potential to evolve into a viable deposit. If you have an outcrop that's 30 meters square, or 30 meters square meters, and there's bare and rock all the way around it, you're not going to find the 200 or the 500 million tons you need to be viable. And that applies to all of the deposit types, and you have to learn that. Early on, I had the good fortune to realize that, and when I was a truly independent consultant, whereas Hunter Dickinson for most of the years I was an in-house consultant, so in-house versus out-of-house, I turned down a lot of jobs, where after reviewing whatever reports they had, I felt that I had virtually no chance of success, because in having coffee with people going to conventions, the geologists that everybody knew were the geologists who had been associated with discoveries, and people, good people, but had worked 10 or 30 years that had never been on a major project, only the neighbors knew who they were. And so it was a gamble to turn down work when you didn't have work, but then you wanted to be associated with success. No, I had a lot of projects that didn't work out, but the other thing is, you got to know when to throw in the towel, you got to go to your client and say, it isn't working, you need to find a new project. Any additional money you spend, you're just throwing good money after that. They don't like it, and you just hope you get paid for your last invoice. But you got to do it. You owe it to them to tell them straight up. And then the minute you realize you're working for somebody that's less than fully forthright, you have to resign.  And again, that means you're on the street without a job, but you have to do it. Well, thank you. Okay. Anything you like that? That's enough, unless you've got the rest of the day. Yeah, and I'm good.