Our next panel is going to talk about the next generation of women in PR, how women are breaking the barriers and building professionals, upholding the core value of ethical leadership and building the influence. Ladies and gentlemen, here we have with us on the panel, Prasiddha Menon, Regional Communication Lead, Airbnb, Bhavya Sharma, Associate Director, PR & Coms, Urban Company, Gunjan Mukherjee, Lead Corporate, and Brand Hill & Nolten Strategies. We also have Pooja Trihan, Associate Vice President, Communication, Sugarbox, and moderating the session once again is Ruchika Jha from Exchange for Media. A very warm welcome to all of you, request all our panelists to please switch on your cameras and mics. Thank you so much for joining us. Hi everyone, thank you for having me here. Hi everyone, thank you so much and hi co-panelists, very nice to meet you all. Good afternoon everybody. Ruchika, over to you. Thank you Khyati, a very good afternoon to all the panelists. So starting with a session, my first question is that what are some of the key challenges and opportunities today's women leaders face? Starting with Ms Sharma please. Hi Ruchika, hi everyone. So very heavy question you're starting the session with Ruchika. So key challenges and opportunities that today's women leaders face, right? I'll actually go with opportunities to be honest, I think there are a lot of opportunities that exist, but what's holding them in back is they're self doubt and imposter syndrome to be honest. The moment we get over it, we mean we'll be able to navigate the path better. It's extremely hard on ourselves unnecessarily, unrightfully and it's essentially not exactly an institutional problem but it's kind of culmination of societal, institutional and our own discomfort with ourselves. The moment we are able to balance that I think won't be a problem for us to move into leadership to capitalize on the opportunities that present to us. The challenge there are two challenges that I will do, I will point out one is that we take criticism to personally and it can be just from anybody around us. We don't even put in that filter that is this person's criticism important or is this person even important to make that comment about us. We need to put in those filters whose criticism or feedback is important to be sought or reflected upon. The other is at times we don't find the right mentors for ourselves and it kind of stems from the fact that we're not using those filters properly. It will taking in everyone's advice or whatever criticism that's coming in but you're not able to distinguish who is important and therefore who should be a mentor and who shouldn't. So those will be my two bits on this question. Miss Menon, what would you like to say about the opportunities and the challenges. Thank you, I think thank you for making us a part of this panel. To begin with I completely agree with Fabia I think there are a lot of opportunities. I think one if you look at it from an individual's perspective I think Fabia is absolutely right I think we are very hard on ourselves. We are sometimes restricting ourselves from being a strong voice in the room because we are sometimes not the loudest voice. We sometimes get into situations where voice clubs take over and somewhere we take a step back and I feel like the moment we are a lot more confident about ourselves and we're able to go ahead and vouch for things that we really feel we deserve and work hard towards it to work for that applies across genders. I think situation will really change for us at an individual level. It's okay to be great at multitasking but it's okay to not multitask. I think those pressures are things that we put on ourselves so if we decide Monday that okay we're just going to focus on work today we're going to order and food that's fine. But I feel like sometimes we are it's maybe the mindset and the way you know we sometimes also there's a little bit of how we are brought up like this is expectation that. So you've chosen to work in that case you need to do a great job at being a homemaker to one who have to do a perfect job and you have amazing at multitasking. So I feel like we take a lot of these pressures to too much into consideration whenever we look at opportunities. So I think that's one thing which we should definitely work towards externally if we look at the environment I feel things have changed now. Whether it is you know the downfall of a lot of companies that happened because of situations like harassment that women faced or the lack of diversity. Or is it because of movements like me to I feel like companies have become a lot more aware of the fact that they need to inculcate an inclusive culture. It has to be the DNA of the company you need to work towards helping leaders women leaders progress give them the right kind of opportunities.  So I think that way situation is changing so these I feel are like vindicate opportunities. And I feel like if we are as women leaders able to work around this they the future definitely seems bright. Having said that if you look at the I think it's a 2021 Fortune 500 study and you know it spoke about how out of the Fortune 500 companies they were about 41 companies or women leaders kind of dominating and that's still 8.1%. So I think you know the change has begun the environment is getting slightly more conducive for us. But yeah I think it totally depends on us on how we as leaders kind of take on that challenge fight for it. And not feel in any way you know uncomfortable doing it. So I think that's the one thing I feel like I've learned from men. I mean they do their thing they don't care. So I think we should do our thing and not really care about whether we branded as emotional or aggressive or too ambitious or whatever else just do your thing yeah that's that's what. Thank you Miss Menon for your kind words. Mr. Hanh what are your remarks on the same. Wow, Gavya and Prasad have like put the context right bang on and I'm sure Gunjan has some really interesting perspectives. Thanks Ruchika once again for actually daring to get all four of us on one panel. And I'm sure you're scared in the back and we don't know where we are going to land up but don't worry we're not going to worry you. This is something that I often say to everyone respect or likability aggressive or assertive pushy to get the work done or tax. Why are these words surprisingly always thrown towards women leaders why and I don't know and why do we even get down to explaining that to them. I mean it just can we not evaluate any individual men or women. This is how professional they are towards their goal and deliverable and how ethically they're doing this. I mean, if you're not really breaking any laws and you know doing all of this the way it needs to do at the end of the day and achieve the goals that business wants then why are individuals bucketed like this. Part two we need to normalize the whole concept amongst our peers, our colleagues, our leadership that women are going to go up the ladder. Okay, we don't really want to play the role of you know managing everything back home managing expectations managing people friends family running into a corporate life, grooming a team because we're expected to do that as leaders. Then why are we not normalizing the concept and women are going to move up the ladder. And why I bring this up is because the minute women move up the ladder the whole universe I'm not I'm not exaggerating is waiting with dated bread to figure out where have we faulted. What's the gap. Why didn't we deliver. How do we put this person down. Why do we even want to do that. I mean, there is truckloads of responsibilities the minute any individual gets into a leadership position. So imagine the amount of stuff you know you need to really swim through any problems any issues good things bad things, any opportunity that comes your way, you need to swim through a lot of it.  But that's the easiest solution out. So I'm saying women are expected to be empathetic and patient. They're not they're expected to deliver, but they're not allowed to be aggressive. They're expected to run behind the opportunity, but then they're not allowed to even you know think about it aloud or we need to work I mean imagine all four of us or five of us today on the panel are discussing why can't people just normalize these things. So, I mean, yeah, so just do your thing the way Prasidha said, I feel whatever be it. Life is going to throw all these googly's at us. So stay at it. Continue doing it. If all of us have managed to reach here. There are many more who can do that as well. And there are many before us who paved the path because that's how our inspiration was also, you know, I mean, ignited. So I think opportunities are equally available men or women. We need to normalize all these pieces that kind of trouble us or affect us and just keep doing our piece. What are your points on this? Oh, I think, you know, thank you for having me on this panel and hearing from the women leaders in the panel. I think you've touched upon all the key things that are actually going on in our head every day and day out. You know, something that I would want to pick up that I mentioned, you know, I feel the industry is gradually shifting towards more of a mentorship driven approach for women. And I think that is helping us a lot. We are leading in different ways and we are increasingly moving towards that part of leadership. I also thought, you know, that in the last two years, what has emerged is that everyone needs to be on board to achieve a strong future. So, you know, achieving a change, particularly in the turbulent times like ours requires the characteristics aligned with an entrepreneurial leader. That is the biggest opportunity for women leaders today. You know, empathy, collaborative spirit, diversity of thought are what we are bringing to the table right now, which has become all the more important.   Therefore, we are more likely to approach our careers in a very self-reflective way. And we value factors such as meaning, purpose, connection with coworkers and work life into integration. And as Prasada mentioned, you know, I think I would just conclude by saying that women should just embrace the natural leadership styles, because that's what we've been brought up to kind of lead. That was a very, and very good and insightful start to the session. And moving on to my next question is that what in your views are some of the key insights that has resonated and triggered bigger and broader change. And I'd like to repeat myself here, change implies the change of our women moving on, being and moving on in the PR industry and change in their mindset that more number of women leaders can aim for the leadership position. Ms. Sharma, I would like to start with you. Thanks, Ruchika. You know, when we started with the panel and when you mentioned that all the questions will be started to be first, I was actually a little worried because these are all very heavy duty questions you lined up. But given how powerful the panel is, I'm kind of glad I'm putting in answering first because by the time we'll come to the end, I think a lot of points are going to get covered. Sorry, but if you want to swap places, more than happy to do that. But coming back to the question, I won't restrict the answer to the PI industry. I think women leadership goes much beyond just PR and should definitely go beyond PR. But going from the previous answers and what all of us were saying earlier, I think confidence is the biggest driving factor. It's the biggest trigger. Confidence in yourself, in the room you are in and your team. All three of these factors play a big, big role. And when I say confidence, I'm not just saying acting smart. I'm saying competence and actual experience. Those are the two ingredients that make you become confident. What are your actual skillsets? What is the competence that you have? And what is the experience overall that you've gained over the years? And the moment you have those two nailed that confidence should exceed. You should be able to be the voice in the room that actually gives direction and isn't the passive listener taking direction or taking notes. I think women need to step beyond taking notes and actually start talking more and maybe not pound the fist on the table, but that voice needs to be a lot more powerful, equally powerful. The other piece that I just wanted to mention over here, taking from Pooja's point in the previous question, I think when men are aggressive, they're actually seen as assertive, whereas when women are being assertive, they are seen as aggressive. I think the other, I mean, to this, unfortunately, men and male leaders end up being gaining respect out of this behavior as women get tagged incorrectly. But I think women should realize their own superpowers. And in my experience, women's superpowers have been always empathy and coaching. And given the current environment that we are in, both of these will take us leagues ahead, right?  We're a lot more into teaming. We are working remotely, which means that conversation needs to be not just work related. They have to transcend beyond work. Because the office is now coming to your home, so the conversation also, in a way, ties in with the home and the work together. And that's where men kind of miserably fail and women go ahead and take the leap ahead. And that's something that women leaders should definitely keep in their arsenal. It's also something that who was recent project, project Aristotle found out in his study. I mean, in that team's value, psychological safety and dependability more than the people who are in the team. And these are two qualities that women definitely bring to the table and they should use them. Ms. Menon, what would you like to add to this? Yeah, I think totally agree with Bhavya and at the cost of sounding a little too immodest and direct. I feel the credit completely goes to the women leaders who've made it. I don't think there's a broader machinery that is working towards enabling us and creating opportunities for us. And now that I'm sure if we have got some sort of coaching support, that's because we've made the effort to go ahead and seek help. If we've had the ability to put up our hand and say that, okay, I think I'm ready for this role. That's because we've been confident and we feel good about where we stand and we've worked really hard, probably harder than a lot of other people out there, men and women who probably not reached that spot and kind of claim that position, which was rightfully ours. So I feel like the change happened because at one point, I think a lot of us came and trusted our vulnerabilities and took the leap of faith and landed where we deserved to be. And then I think the second part comes where it's our responsibility now to encourage the generations to follow, to have that same confidence and kind of give them that, you know, sometimes it's just like one conversation where you were able to encourage someone and say, hey, you're so good like you should try this. And I feel like I'm very blessed because I've had the opportunity to work with a lot of women leaders, whether from PR or not, but who've kind of come and shared their journeys, which have been so inspiring that you feel like, oh, why can't I do it? And sometimes I want to give a little bit of credit to some of the main leaders as well that I've worked with, who've kind of encouraged you to chase your dreams and break the glass ceiling, have confidence and kind of have that voice. I do want to point out that I think, you know, at least for me in the beginning there were times where you don't feel comfortable getting into a conversation. I've worked with people across cultures. Sometimes, you know, you kind of wait for your turn. And then you realize that the meeting is over, the turn never came. Nobody really called out your name and said, hey, that's it, what do you think? They didn't do it. So I feel like it has taken a couple of such situations to tell yourself that if you'd keep doing this, you're the one who's losing, and that you have to take control. And I feel like that's what is going to happen. I don't think the machinery is going to ever enable any one individual or a community and say, okay, you know, they deserve it. It's not happening. There's so many issues that we deal with at a social level. So I feel like it's totally on you and I keep saying this to people I work with that if you believe in yourself, the world's going to start seeing your abilities and everything's going to kind of work towards you. And at the same time, you will face a ton of challenges, just be prepared to deal with it. And that to my mind is going to still be the reality for some time. Ms. Trehan, what are your remarks? Before I answer that question, Ruchika, I have to say I think all of us are doing something right. Because, you know, the thought that I had in mind to start my response to this question with, plus it actually said it, the change begins with us. So I was really, I was like, where are my pom-poms? I want to jump around and say that all of us are doing something correct. Because in all honesty, boring statements, but the change begins with you and one step at a time. Okay, as a woman professional, we need to stop doubting ourselves. We need to blatantly and shamelessly believe that we are intelligent. We bring a lot of value and talent to the table. Don't wait for that opportunity to come your way. You need to go out and tell them that, listen, have you noticed that I've done this? I mean, why are we so good at building brands, building leaders, building these organizations and we don't even manage to shout from the top of the mountain that this is what I did. This is what I created. I'm sorry, there might be a lot of people who would have met me on my path and would have said about the fact that I went out and told everybody that this is what the communications team did. But this is important. Why would we put in those hours and then shy away from taking credit to do that? No one else in the field, any organization, any industry today, no one wants to do that. So that's one thing. Stop doubting yourself. Stop saying sorry. Please stop saying sorry. It's okay to not be okay. It's okay to take a leave. It's okay to tell your team members and other colleagues they've not delivered and this has to be done. It's okay to be that. Doesn't matter. Please don't get attached to any words, any feelings, any statements that people throw at you. At the end of the day, if you're a professional and you've come to work, you will be noticed and remembered by what you've created at work. So your inspiration lies with you. Change needs to begin with us. Very well said Prasad. There is no external machinery. This is actually the truth, the naked truth, literally. There's no one sitting there to help you. But the minute you get up and say I'm sorry, I'm not supposed to say sorry. This is what we are going to do. I'm a professional and I want to grow here. I'm going to be focused and I'm going to be moving in that direction. You want to walk along. Great. Don't want to walk along. Don't do it. What also helps me in all of this is stay focused. Just keep walking one step at a time, one day at a time. Build your own tribe. Wherever you go, professionally, whether for your morning runs or your coffee breaks or office, build your own tribe. Be with people who understand and celebrate other human beings. We need to stop the spider behavior of pulling everyone down all the time. It's a very funny statement that people often say women don't get along. I'm sorry. I have the best of women professionals who are crazy buddies together. They've been actually great mentors. So it's both genders who helped you. They will only help you if you show that curiosity to learn and that will to grow. Come what may. Everyone has a tough life. You need to swim through it, get up and say, I'm going to fight it out personally or professionally. And that's the only way. I mean, what got us here is not going to take us ahead. So you need to keep changing that approach. That's what we need to gear up for. Thank you, Mr. Han. Ms. Mukherjee, what in your views are some of the key insights? You know, I love you to hear all of you. I mean, change begins with us.  One of the most striking things that I have noticed in my career in my journey is how women leaders are celebrating other women leaders. You mean, look at what they're doing right now, right?  And I think that can go a long way in smoothing our journey towards becoming integral members of the C-suite management. You know, something that I have also tried to build and I have seen my, you know, mentor's kind of do is creating a very close-knit group of people who treat one another like family. I think that's incredibly powerful, especially when you look at everything happening in the world. You know, flexibility at workplace, remote working relationships that we have strengthened speaks a lot about the broader change that we ourselves as women leaders have kind of introduced in this journey. So yes, I mean, I, I to Prasada, Pooja and Bhavya absolutely agree to everything that we've kind of tried to establish. Coming to our third question is that how the leaders should build confidence to the young professionals, especially women professionals through the behavioural, behavioural change and what are the roles that the institution plays in empowering them. Ms Sharma. Yeah, I'm getting started. Would anyone else want to go first? Ms Menon, Ms Trehan, if you would like to go first. Actually, we should put Gunjan right up there. Sure, sure. I'd love to kind of answer this question more from an organization standpoint. You know, we need to move from empowerment to sponsorship. Organisations need to identify high potential women and then work with them to create an ecosystem where they can perform their best and be future women leaders. And this goes beyond, you know, just gender representation of numbers and few policies in place to ensure growth and opportunities. Consider a very simple and effective example. You know, Government of India has mandated that for working mothers, work from home options need to be provided for much more beyond maternity leave, unless job requires physically to be in place. Same for late night, same for night shifts. You know, government has also made a day cares, etc being accommodated by organisations. So we can see a shift towards creating a more enabling system, because the realities of everyday life for us cannot change. We have to be, you know, what companies need to do is they need to kind of identify these changes in this environment and apply them because instead of losing high potential talent to such challenges, what will result is you will see a talent crunch crunch and imbalance. So it's very important for us to understand what is happening in the overall industry and similarly kind of adapt, evolve and work along with women leaders to bring about that change. Otherwise, nothing will change. Mr. Han, what would you like to add to this? So I would read a lot of news articles, often, you know, saying that women in technology sector per se are very few and, you know, not many numbers not growing or not in the senior leadership position. And I actually saw that when I joined sugarbox network that we have in, I mean, great talent, but maybe they're at junior level, mid level things like that. I started this campaign. It's one of the campaigns that's very close to my heart amongst all the other pieces that we do, but there's something called as women in tech. We actually started with women in our organization beyond marketing and communication. I started with people who are possibly in engineering and infrastructure in operation. We caught them in front of the screen frame. I mean, they're all behind the camera talent. They don't really, you know, get an opportunity in their life to do that. We got them there and all that we told them is just talk to us about your journey. Just tell people why do you love the tech industry? Why are you here? And I mean, if anyone can just go on to our LinkedIn page, view it, you'll be surprised to see that all of these women turned around and they are so kicked about technology. It's literally their high. Some of them actually told me that listen, we saw our dad playing around with gadgets. And that's when I decided I want to be in this industry. I want to be part of this domain. And it's surprising women never talk about that. I mean, they actually will sit down and tell me, listen, this is the gadget. This is how it works. I mean, I'm learning each and every day. You feel they're all leaders here. Please come and sit with these engineering girls. And I'm like, I really don't know anything today. The feeling is more of a fool than anything else. But that's what it is. So women in tech as a category, my organization didn't ask me to do it. I felt that need. I wanted to talk about it. They said, no one said no or yes to it. I said, okay, let me just do this campaign, minimal budget, see the turnaround. If nothing else externally, I've actually got the women tech and engineering and the other professionals in our organization excited about it. Who's coming on next? Who's going to be talking about it? Now that's how you build someone else's confidence. That's how you give back to your organization, your peers, not necessarily in the whole industry. Just help everyone get up and do that. The minute I did that and the minute the change is evident, the organization automatically empowered me to continue doing that. So that's what I meant. We need to walk that step, show that change to everybody, whether they agree or not, just keep doing it. It took me four or five episodes to be short before everybody got aligned to the whole piece. So at the end of the day, just do your bit. We know how to build a brand, what's the storytelling, what's the narrative, we turn everything around, but celebrate yourself, celebrate people around. I mean, just like a closing thought for that answer, I'm part of the executive leadership. The day one when I got there, I'm like, oh, part of the big boys club. And that's where I stopped myself. I said, no, that's incorrect. Part of a larger opportunity where I can possibly learn more and then help others to get onto that platform. I'm still learning tech. I'm still learning data. I mean, as communication professionals, I don't know why we don't tell our trainees and interns, please deep dive into data. Why are we dragged into a senior or a mid-level position and then taking data? There's lots to do in data beyond the measurements that all of us love to talk about. But yeah, build confidence with building campaigns, give others a platform, give others an opportunity. And I think it just rubs off really well. Ms. Minnan, a quick answer on how the, what, how does the institution plays a role in empowering young women? Yeah, I think the role is dual. As an individual, you have a role to play a lot of what I think Pooja's book about completely resonates with me. It becomes very important to have your voice. And I think for you to be confident, you need to know that you know your job really well. So of course, all of that hard work in everything kind of is always the foundational part. If you have that voice and if you're able to kind of, you know, work towards opportunities, focus, things will work in the right direction. Now, when I say have that voice, then also have the ability to have a counter-opinion and not be uncomfortable sharing that. I think what institutions value the most or what would be most valuable to the institutions, let me say that, is the diverse opinion that we bring to the table. Where, you know, sometimes I think specifically as PR professionals, a lot of us are the conscience keepers of the organization, right? If there are business goals, there are legal entities, there are a lot of things that are playing around. But you as the communications and somebody who's the category of the reputation of the company, you're the conscience keeper. You say, okay, this sounds right. Legally, there's nothing wrong. Business wise makes a lot of sense. But look, this is how it's going to affect your reputation. So I think that confidence will come when you know what you're saying makes sense. So I think from that perspective into what you think there's a lot to work towards. I think when I look at the institutions, I feel like, you know, somewhere the institutions have to think about this subject as something other than a PR campaign. And I hate to say it as a PR professional, but I feel like a lot of times diversity and exclusivity, it's like, you need to have that one page on your website. You need to have pictures of women smiling and feeling really good.  And a lot of this is, you know, it feels like a PR campaign to me. There are very few companies that really invest in building that culture. I feel glad that I can't really work with a company like that, which incorporates aspects of it right from the hiring phase to, you know, through stages of onboarding and then, you know, the career path. So I feel like if institutions are really serious about it, it has to be truly inculcated in the culture. You don't need to talk about it a lot through press releases and articles and, you know, HR leaders talking about what an amazing culture I've been. Your employees will talk.   And like, whenever these things are spoken about, it is always presented as we're doing something so special for women. I mean, the moment institutions and companies realize that it's not special, it's very basic, just like you have smoking rooms for men and women or smoking zones for men and women. I think once that shift comes in the mindset, life is going to be a lot better. Hopefully, Idri with you, Prasadha, on that, mean very valid points. In fact, Gunjan Pooja votes. I'll actually come with a personal example here. So when I joined up in company, almost about to complete five years, I came in at a mid-managery level, leading the content piece for the web and all. But over the five years that I've been here, I've, when the company has given me so much opportunities to be able to eventually now lead head communications and set up new verticals for ESG and PI and other pieces. Pieces that didn't exist when I had joined, but I have built from scratch. That happens only when, A, the company has that kind of environment for you to be trust that even if you fail, it's okay. We've been together and that acceptance of the risk-taking, risk-capitized for a company as well. And a lot of times, these are not saying that women are not willing to take this, but at times we want an environment around us to be equally positive about that risk-taking piece. And the fact that showed that kind of confidence and faith in me to be able to drive all of these and set them up as processes and as divisions becomes that much more important. And like Prasadha said, if the company is doing well, employees will talk and HR people don't need to. Which is precisely what I'm doing right now. As an employee, I'm talking about it not as a person who's driving diversity, equity and inclusion in the company. And those are the things that really matter. The other thing that we're doing right now at UC is also setting up a new piece called Future Women Leaders, where it will be a specific program only for mentoring and coaching next league of our female leaders within the company. And this will not just be external hiring, it will also be propelling forward the internal resources that we have. So I think that what matters is how we as an institution overall, coming up with not just policies on paper, but also creating an environment that puts women forward and gives them that kind of faith and backing. That even if we fail, there's a safety net, take as many risks as you want to go for it. Definitely. As we come to the end of our session, we still have five minutes left. I would just want a concluding remark from all of the panelists about what are their messages to the young women PRN communications professional. I would like to start with Ms. Menon. Thanks Achika.  I feel so good. It feels like a good Saturday. I think the question I want to leave all the young PR professionals watching especially the women is ask yourself, you know, where do you want to be and how do you want to get there. Don't wait for mentorship programs and coaching programs like I don't know sometimes as much as I understand there's a need for it. I also want to ask myself that, you know, we don't talk about all of this woman. They do well. So why is it that, you know, we have to be this this child who needs help or, you know, has to be positioned in a way like you need a lot of help. You don't. I have not done a lot of these programs and I am sure that, you know, we'll have a lot of other leaders probably some at the panel to not probably gone through such programs to reach where they are. Maybe you know now that we are, we probably have getting some support from an executive coach or so and so and you know trying to kind of hone our skills or looking at additional courses or whatever else to you know build our skills but I feel like don't bracket yourself as somebody who needs a lot of help and you know you're so much going on and how am I going to work to it. Have confidence in yourself really work on your skills. If you are good at what you do. And if you have the confidence to talk about it in a way that people around you not just recognize and appreciate you but trust you, you will find a way forward. And I think that's where the buck stops for me. So, so all the lovely women out there watching just, you know, have the confidence like be so good that people are not able to put you down. And hopefully, you know, along the path you find I'm being again in modest and I'm fine with it. Leaders like us will always be there to support you. Thank you. Thank you, Ms. Menon. Mr. Han, what are your miss, what is your message to the young women professionals. After every match, even Nadal today, still after so many years and decades of being that great a player, and I'm a big fan of him still says there are challenges that matter for stuff but I managed it. We are mere models, all of us, not only Nadal but all of us and I'm sorry I'm giving a male professional male players example but then I want to start I mean this is the start to the end of breaking these shackles where we are constantly living the divide of men and professionals, let's break that away. So, if he can say that if if the great Stephen Curry can win the MVP after so many years and you know critics had written him off, if he can get there and get on the board and at the post press conference of the event he said that I'm here, people had written me off. Nothing stopped him. He continued playing, he did his best, he honed his skills as Prasada said, keep doing that. So, if all of us outside have these great examples to live by, learn by that. One thing that I constantly believe, please read a lot, please write a lot, personally even if that is, please educate yourself. I mean, very rightly said there are no mentors and guides, but keep going back to the classroom for whatever you would like to study. Yes, meet us on the way, wherever you're climbing up the ladder horizontal vertical next in the boardroom, but start respecting anybody and everybody that you see has come to any position of seniority, because they've had to fight way too many battles to get where they are. Yeah, so let's start respecting every individual. Ms Mukherjee, what would you like to say?  You know, think yourself as a leader first, you have to inspire yourself and others every day. You have to lead the way and become an epitome for other women to follow. And I think that's what is the most important journey for us.  And I think that that speaks a lot about the confidence that, you know, organizations today have in women like us, that we will be able to kind of lead our own teams. You know, all that, you know, I still remember when I joined the PR industry. You know, the previous companies that I worked in, a very important thing that used to always come is, they don't understand finance, they don't know what revenue sheets are. Gone are those days, gone are those days when we don't hear those very stereotypical, you know, I would say comments, because that at that point of time really kind of used to cool me down. But today I'm much more confident. I'm much more confident because there have been women leaders who have trained me mentored me to kind of believe in some things that we will be able to achieve. And I think yeah, I mean, just believe in yourself first. I think that's the message I would love to advocate. Thank you, Miss Mukherjee. Lastly, Miss Sharma, what is your message to the professionals? Yeah, my message is pretty simple. If you are capable of writing a vision roadmap for the company, communications plan or any plan for the next two years, five years, whatever, why can't we write it for ourselves but stopping us. We should write one for ourselves. If we are brand, I mean, helping us, folks, people or our leaders to present a certain image in the wider realm, we can do that for ourselves as well. I mean, simplest example, right? We always tweeting or posting on LinkedIn about great stuff that the company is doing from the company and handle and all that. How much time are we investing in our own personal social media handles? I mean, a lot of communications professionals have very limited reach on social media itself. If you're not investing, I mean, are using our skills for our own better with our own goals. And I think that's what women should start doing and use those skills that we're using for company for your growth as well. That would be my biggest giveaway. Thank you, Miss Sharma. A very big thank you to all the panelists for joining here. And I'm sure the women professionals who are watching have definitely gained some confidence and they would definitely imply whatever things you shared about moving on in the industry. Thank you so much. Thanks, Ruchika. This was a fantastic panel to be a part of. Indeed, I feel, I myself feel very lucky to be the moderator of this panel. Thank you so much to everybody. Thank you, Ruchika. Thank you so much for the opportunity. Thank you, co-panelists. It was just amazing. Thank you, everyone.