Listen, do you want to know how you can get on our private exclusive forum? Tell me, Sal. For free? Tell me. It's not top secret, but it is private. It's private, and you can- We don't show privates on there, but it's private. No. Yeah, we pull those down. Our private forum has trainers, physique competitors, bodybuilders, bikini competitors, gorgeous people. Lots of gorgeous people. We have, you know, me, Adam, and Justin are on there. It's a community where you can ask questions about your exercise technique, form, nutrition. You can vent about some of your struggles and frustrations. You can post your before and afters. It's an incredible community. It is tons of great information. You can get free access to it by going to mindpumpmedia.com and enrolling in one of our two most popular exercise bundles. We have the RGB bundle, which includes MAPS anabolic, MAPS performance, and MAPS aesthetic. Nine months of exercise programming. Or you can go to the next level and get the MAPS Super Bundle, which also includes MAPS Prime, which teaches you how to prime your workouts properly. There's a self-assessment tool in there, revolutionary. Very valuable. And MAPS Anywhere, which is our no equipment required workout program. So if you travel, you want to work out at home, or what a lot of our users have been doing, is they use MAPS Anywhere to bridge between programs like MAPS anabolic and MAPS performance or between performance and aesthetic. Or D-load. Or D-load. Enrolling one of those bundles, you get access to the forum for free, and it's for free forever. That's it, for life. By the way, the price of that will be going up next month and in a very short period of time, it will no longer be a pay one time, get free access, get access forever. It'll be a pay annual type of thing. So this is a great deal. You want to get in on it now, go to mindpumpmedia.com. If you want to pump your body and expand your mind, there's only one place to go. Mind pump, mind pump. With your hosts, Sal DeStefano, Adam Schaefer, and Justin Andrews. Doug, are we officially on yet? We're officially on. Okay, guys, I want to do a formal apology. Why? Apology? Yeah, I want to... Do you finally realize... This might be it, Justin. This is the moment.  All right, go ahead. We've been waiting. We've been waiting.  It is actually. So I want to formally apologize to my teammates that I'm so blessed and lucky to be with and be a part of. And I know that this last couple of weeks, man, I've been sick. I'm still getting better right now. I haven't been on my workouts as consistently as I normally am. So that always affects my mood. So I've been kind of a pill to be around lately. Oh, come on. And I 100% know that and own that and want to apologize and just tell you that I'm fully aware of it. And a lot of times I let a lot of the stuff going on with our business and stuff stress me out and apply that pressure a lot. But I could not be any luckier to be in the position. And I was just what made me think about this. I was sharing this with Katrina last night is we just recently interviewed Tom Billu and men end up being like one of my favorite podcasts that we've done yet. And I'm listening to him talking him. He's sharing a lot of stories and things that are from you could tell from a lot of people that we've interviewed or we knew too. And I was just thinking of like all this collective knowledge that he has from all these great minds that he's been around and that he's talked to and interviewed and listening to him share that. I thought, man, this is so cool. And I'm so blessed to be in a situation like this where not only am I surrounded around intelligent men, but then we have this opportunity to always be interviewing these brilliant minds and just absorbing this information at such a rapid rate. Like when we meet these guys, these are people that some people make go their whole life and never meet.  And we're like, we're packing them in a week.  I mean, we just, I mean, the last four people we are hanging out in the last 14 days are just on another level of brilliance and intelligence and all levels to not just a real, isn't it? Yeah, not just yet. And it's a cool job.   And, you know, and I know I have a hard time doing that. Of course, it doesn't help when I'm sick and all this stress and other stuff's going on. I'm not immune to those things. And, you know, I can't be happier to be doing what we're doing. And it's really exciting. You know, we worked really hard to start to make this, to make this all happen and to see it unfolding now and the impact that we're making in the industry and the people that we're being able to share with our audience, you know, is this is what we really did this for, you know. So I thank you guys for being patient and I love you to death.  I haven't even noticed it's in your head. Yeah. Yeah. I appreciate that. But it really like, you haven't even come across like that.  And it's all good. It doesn't. I know it's only a matter of time. Yeah. It doesn't go beyond that. It kind of goes through those spells. No, it doesn't go beyond that.  And at the, at literally that same day, we'll text each other and be like, that was pretty awesome. I love you, man. What are you doing?  I love you, man. It's ridiculous. It's all right, dude. That's, that's what it's all about. If you can't have, if you don't have that kind of passion to have that back and forth or have that kind of passion to feel something for what you're doing. If you don't have that, you might not be doing the right thing. You know what I mean? Yeah, I agree. And you know what though? You do make a good point. There will be a day when we're going to reminisce on these days, when we're going to look back and be like, man, those were the good old days, you know? Absolutely. And it's hard. It's hard to do that when you're in it because you just want to think, you know, keep thinking forward. And that's what I mean by that.  But I also think it's important that, and I just think this in all relationships and in life and all people should, you know, take heed to this is that when you are that way, it's important that you say that and express that.   You never acknowledged it. Yeah. You never, you never know. And you allowed those people or that person to receive that part of you. And a lot of that is not the, it's the humbling part. It's not easy to say, hey, I'm wrong or I wasn't right in this situation or I was a dick or I should have been this way. We just like to like brush it on the rug and just continue going on when I think there's something to be said about doing that and the type of person and character that you are for those that are willing to admit that I'm wrong. I made a mistake. I could have been better here.  I wasn't a good man. I wasn't a good person. I wasn't a good boyfriend.  And when you saw them, had the balls to say that, you know, who you, what you were at that age and what, how you could have been a better person and how, how good of a person they were. You know, I think those are important things to do. Dude, I'll never forget. You just, this was probably God, maybe five years ago. So I'm still in my 30s. I went to the grocery store by my parents house and I see there was a guy that I went to school with who was, he was kind of like the leader of like the one of the main major main gangs in my junior high and I had a lot of trouble with these people.  I've told you guys a story stressful situation where the main dude, the main leader guy, I just, you know, he was, I ran into him and now this is years and years and years later and he walks all the way over to me.    Well, imagine the payback.   I wanted him to be like, wow, why did he, who is that guy? He just randomly hit me and like now you get to live with that, you know, thinking of that now for the rest of your life. But anyway, he walked up to me. I didn't hit him because I wasn't going to really do that and he apologized to me. Yeah. He actually apologized to me. He's like, Hey man, it's crazy.  And he's like, I just want to apologize about that. I'm like, well, you know, it's all good. You know, what's done is done. He's like, well, now I'm a pastor now. I guess he became a pastor and it was a big guy. Wow. But and he looks like a total dad now. This guy was like a hardcore thug back then. Well, we're different people, you know, like it when you look back at who you were when you were in your 20s, who you were when you were 18 or below. It's just, I was a completely different person. And to hold me to that person, I mean, that's an injustice.  Really? Yeah. Were you apologized to them? I've apologized. I've apologized to someone. Yeah, absolutely. Yeah, especially like, I don't know if I told you on the podcast, I think I might have told about the acorn throwing incident that. No, not going to share, bro. God damn it. It's just like turning it into a confession all day. Oh man, me and my best friend was a girl like, so I grew up with this girl and you know, we were, I mean, it was funny because we were like, she was kind of a tomboy. And so she was just open to do whatever I wanted to do. And I had bully tendencies. And so I, one day like it was real competitive kind of going towards the bus stop. And so there's this passing.  Yeah, like we'd all race. We wanted to be first. For some reason, I don't know how it even started, but it just became a thing where like everybody would look at each other and then be like, oh no, I'm getting it. And then we'd all kind of race. And there was this kind of crossing kind of intersection where it was like, you know, if you saw somebody, you had to really sprint to get in front of them, right before the end.  So I'd get there first, you know. And so I convinced my, one of my best friends, this girl, God, I don't know. Maybe like six or seven, seven. I'll see your little guy. I was just a little, yeah. And so I totally just like picked up this handful and pelted this poor girl in the face. Oh my God. And she cried. And then I, you know, I bolted and I'm like, yeah. And like, and I never apologized to her. And I saw her crying everything. And I never apologized to her. Anyways, it's just been this guilt, you know.  But I ran into her like later on in life. And Cory, so I apologize. Cory again here publicly. But I was just like, I was like, I'm so embarrassed. You know, that's still outside my character. But at the same time, like, you know, I was getting bullied. And I was also bullying kids. It's just, it was part of the growing up thing for me.   And so like that was my, I was like kind of retaliating, you know, somehow. And I wasn't even thinking about it. Kids could be so mean, man.  But like, I have a son and a daughter. And they bully differently. Boys and girls are very different with how they bully. Oh, for sure. And girls can be mean. I don't, I was going to say to you.  Oh, I don't know if I want to be, I think I'd rather be bullied as a boy.  Names that don't make sense. Yeah, you do an insult that doesn't even make your hair or something.  Yeah, and it really is. And then you're like, yeah, right.   Well, more than that, even what they do is they gain, like what girls do, little girls, I see this with my daughter. My daughter was in first grade. They'll, they'll band together and ostracize another little girl.   You shouldn't play with her too. Okay, let's not all play with her. And they get this. Have you seen that happen with your daughter's friends and stuff? Bro, that's what they do. Oh wow. This is what they do. Have you had to put her together because that's happened to her? Or she was a part of it and she did it to somebody? Like, how do you deal with that?  What do I say to my daughter? Like, this is what you do.  Like, you can't do that because that'll backfire. So you got to like get like smart. Like, okay, well, go up to this girl and say that. And like, what do you do with that? Tell their moms? And it's really, God man, it's sad. It's hard. You know, my daughter came in, my daughter came home and she's like, sad. And I'm like, what's the matter, honey?  And she told this girl and that girl not to play with me. So now none of them are playing with me. And I'm like, do I have to go like, I guess they're too young to go beat up. Like, what am I supposed to do? I can't do anything. You want to go in there and tornado the whole school. You know what I mean? Yeah, yeah. Tell the kids like, but you can't do anything.  I mean, that's childhood. Like, I just, I don't know. I kind of- It's hard though, man. When it's your kid? Oh my God. It's brutal. It's brutal. And especially when they're getting left out of events or they're not getting invited to birthday parties and you're just like, why?  And like, he's not as developed yet as far as his strength to shoot a basketball high enough. So he avoids it. You know, and I'm working on it with him, but it's just like, it's heartbreaking, you know? Because like, I used to just go right in and play. You know, that was my strength. And like, that's not his strength. And so, you know, to watch him like- Dude, the worst- Figure out how to go to the library. He's like going to the library hanging out with kids and he's going over here. And he's like, he's not hanging out with the cool Jack kids.  Like, you know what they start to realize?  And you're like, oh my God. Yeah, yeah. My kid knows.   Oh God.  You got to deal with this. It's like reality. It's life, kid. Yeah. It's life. That has to make you- I love watching him work at it. But exactly. You know what I mean?   I mean, I don't even have kids and I feel like that's something that I'm always working on. I remember it- Well, and I'll be honest, like the anger factor, right? Yep. Like, you just cannot let yourself lose your cool. Yep. You can't do it. Like, that's not how, like, it's not going to promote anything going forward that's successful. Well, and then you hear stories like when we interviewed Lane and he talks about the bullying that he went through as a kid. Oh, and you can see- And it obviously shaped him. Oh yeah, you can see it's effect him as a grown man.    And so knowing that makes it even more stressful. So I guess the best thing you could do is you can't protect them, right? You can't wrap them up in bubble wrap and have them have this perfect life. And would you really want them to anyway, right? No. You want to just help them learn how to deal with and process these types of things and how to handle it themselves. Yeah, you work through it with them. Yeah. And how to handle the cells. And so, God, man, it's not easy, man. Dude, if you ever want to relive the most difficult moments of your childhood, all you got to do is have kids. Yeah. But then you get to relive the awesome stuff like going to Disneyland with your daughter, you know what I mean? Yeah. Like that kind of, it's like it brings all new meaning to the experience. Yeah. Holidays changing. That's really cool. Yeah. So it's like we always highlight I think there's a lot to be said that's like it's sort of a, it takes on its own little magic where you get back into childlike, you know, things and you get to experience it again. The best thing when I like my son, right, he's 11 now. So he's getting the age now where you kind of, you got to, you want to kind of be cool. Like you're getting a little bit, you know, you understand a little bit what it means to kind of be cool and you're not a little kid, right? He's going to start getting into teenage years. And I'm a very affectionate person. I grew up in a very affectionate family. And so I'll drop him off at school and I'll, and you'll see him. He'll take off. Like he's going to just walk away. Like he's going to go to school.   So I'll grab him.  Hell yeah.  I'll grab him by his backpack.  I'm like, and I'll tell him to say, you never be embarrassed by your father kissing you on the face. I said, one day you'll remember this. And it's true, you know, you think about this one day. Yeah. And so I'll give him a kiss.  So I did like 15 times in a row. So he walks away. So he walks away and I thought about it. I'm like, oh man, I wonder if I should have not done that. What if he's going to get embarrassed? You're embarrassing him. Yeah. So then I pick him up from school afterwards and I was still kind of thinking about it, but I wasn't going to bring it up, you know, because what am I going to say? So we're walking back to the car and then one of his buddies is in front of us with his dad.  He goes, the medical's dad is so strong. Like look at him. And you can see the dad look back and the boy look back and then my son like walks over to me and like holds my hand. All proud. And I'm like, yeah, like that guy's dad feels inadequate. Probably doesn't even kiss him. Daddy, why don't you have muscles like that guy?  Oh God, that's... Boom! Working out. Daddy Bird, come save us. Today's quads being brought to you by Chimeric Coffee. It's the only coffee that is infused with all natural nutrients for a cleaner, calmer, and more focused buzz without the crash. Click the Chimeric link at mindpumpmedia.com and input the discount code mindpumpedcheckout for 10% off. It's the motherfucking quad. The eagle has landed. All right, first up is Sarah Beekso. Does fluctuating keto, non-keto produce any negative physiological effects that you've read or seen? And there's a second part to this question.  Okay, so that's like two parts there. Yeah, yeah. So here's the thing with keto. We've talked about keto quite a few times now. One thing you have to understand is humans tend to thrive on relative variety when it comes to food. So there's lots of evidence to back this up. You're more likely to develop a food intolerance if you eat it over and over and over and over again. In fact, that's one of the things that will probably cause an intolerance to something is that you just constantly eat it all the time. For example, if you go to a place like Japan, they have a very high instance of rice allergy and intolerance. And rice is one of those things that people aren't usually allergic to or have intolerance for. In fact, if you're one of those people that tends to react strongly to food in America, rice is one of the things that they might recommend. But that's obviously in Japan, they eat a lot of it. So variety is very, very important to your nutrition. Keto, getting into ketosis, has got some narrow protective benefits and it's got some documented benefits for autoimmune diseases, cognitive benefits. There's some studies showing that running off of ketones benefits people with things like dementia and Alzheimer's. Some people just feel a lot better eating ketogenic. That being said, I don't think... There's more physiological things than I've seen I mean, probably most common I get when I switch someone to that, I get people telling me they're satiety, like they don't have cravings. So they all of a sudden, they're surprised that, man, I couldn't have like a bag of chips on my counter and I'm not demolishing it or I couldn't have a bag of candy somewhere in my house and not demolishing and they're really... Or they couldn't go four or five hours without eating or craving or wanting something and so satiety. So those are things that are probably the most common. There's definitely some benefits from it, but I think if you stay on keto too long... Now, there are studies long-term, relatively long-term studies. I think they're like three, four, five-year studies on people who were keto for a long period of time and these were medical ketogenic diets. So these are studies on children who used it to treat their epileptic seizures and so they stay on ketogenic diet for like five years and they found no negative, no major negative anything. It's perfectly healthy, everything was fine. However, anecdotally speaking, I can tell you if you're strict keto all the time... You're probably not getting all the optimal nutrients for your body. You might not because a lot of things you're cutting out and you may start to notice some negatives. Like you may start to notice some reduced reductions in performance. It could affect your endocrine system, your thyroid. It's not really a good thing if you're hypothyroid. You got to be careful. You got to look at... It might affect women negatively because women's bodies tend to be very sensitive to any signs of starvation. So keto, although you are getting adequate calories, can simulate some of the starvation responses in the body because you're switching over to a system in the body that was designed to run off of no food. So there's some of those things you got to watch out for and personally speaking. I'm going to speak for myself now. I eat a usually ketogenic diet because it just works great for me. It works great with my autoimmune issues. It works great with my gut. I feel great mentally from it, reduced inflammation. I have lots of food intolerances with grains. However, if I stay keto strict for too long consistently, I do notice that I lose too much weight. It's harder for my performance in terms of strength. We'll start to decline in the gym. And I just, I'll start to look and feel a little gaunt. And so what I do now is I will throw in some carbohydrates here and there. So I don't know. So five years was the longest study that you found. That I'm aware of. That I'm aware of. Because that's, I mean, that's real, that's nothing.  No, that's a great point. If you're somebody, because here's the thing too, you could easily be missing 10 years. I think maybe 10 years would be the late. But I know there's no life long. There's also things that are very tough, like getting fiber and digestive enzymes and things like that, that, you know, people don't really account and think about that and the buildup of that over weeks and months and years of missing those targets consistently. And you start to alter your body. And you see, you see those changes.  And, you know, my body's reacting differently now, whereas I need to kind of change and rotate. We're usually on the side of trying to be ahead of that, right? Be preventative as far as like rotating things and making sure that, you know, we're exposing the body to other nutrients. And, you know, we're not establishing this pattern where we're going to hit that wall, where now all of a sudden, now it's going to have the decline effects. That's right. I mean, you know, we always, we talk about evolution a lot. Humans evolved eating whatever they could. And so they ate, they followed the seasons. They did not, for most of human civilization, we didn't live in the same place all the time. We moved. We constantly moved to where the food was. So that could mean we're near a place where we could get fish. It could be hunting, you know, different kinds of meats. It could be berries. It could be roots. It could be, you know, certain types of starches. It could be vegetables.  And the ones that they found showed that these neanderthals, first of all, very fascinating kind of off subject, but they discovered that the neanderthals probably had a very good understanding of plant medicine. We're using natural antibiotics and natural painkillers.  They were probably much more intelligent than we think, if not at par with... Well, at least, I mean, survival, right? I mean, that's built in all of us. It's one thing that we can say, I mean, that when you come out that way, no matter how high your IQ is, you have this desire to survive. You've got to think back then, there was probably a lot of people dying off the common cold and things like that. So you're probably searching for scouring the earth for whatever you could try and try all by air.  Yeah, let's stay away from this planet. And what they found, what they found, though, with these neanderthals, this is just new. I just read this two days ago, that the neanderthals, the fossils that they found, or whatever, were vegetarian. They didn't have any signs of eating any meat whatsoever. And I know... So from the dental records? Yeah, yeah, there's a couple of the tests they did, but I know, and I know, I've been doing this long enough, I've had clients that, and I've monitored them and worked with them, and we've tried different things. They just feel and operate much better on all levels, eating a vegan diet or a vegetarian diet. And then there's other people I've worked with that eat, you know, more of a paleo or keto type diet. And the individual variances with food can be pretty dramatic. But I'll tell you this much, whatever you find that works great for you, that's awesome, but variation's gonna be good too sometimes. Like for me, like I said, for the most part, I eat keto-ish, but not always. Well, I don't know, do you guys have anybody, everybody that I've taught keto? Like, so I've had many clients that I've had them go through a keto diet because I want them to feel it, and I want them to connect certain dots of when we start to eliminate certain foods. It's a great awareness tool, isn't it? Yeah, but no one I've kept on it, I don't have any clients. I don't have anybody that I actually have taught keto and they're like, oh, I'm forever, never not, not being keto. They, what it was, was when we went through it, I show them, you know, and now they start to realize, whoa, these carbs were making me feel this way. It's eye-opening. It is, and they didn't realize that, which is also what kind of, we had somebody recently- Dude, intermittent fasting was the same. Yeah. You know, it had the same experience, where it was just eye-opening in that, like, the rituals of eating, you know, you interrupt that process and it doesn't trip you up. It doesn't slow, like, it doesn't mess up your gains. You know, it actually, you start to feel, like, improvements energy-wise, and like, it's counter to what you would think, but you really have to go through the whole process and experience it, and now you look at it as like, oh, this is another tool that I can kind of pull from, you know, going forward. This was valid. This is why I get really annoyed, too, when we get people that I know, like, they drop into, like, one or two episodes and they hear us talking about the benefits of keto or high-fat diets, or maybe it's an episode where we're talking about, you know, carbs and how all the studies that are coming out now and how they affect the body, the brain, and, you know, and we, and they think we're demonizing carbohydrates and making them like, oh, no, it's not that at all.  I mean, that's just- Not in the modern time. No, no, it's not. It's just not the average. So when we do these podcasts, we're speaking to the majority and we're trying to help the majority out and share with you, like, listen, what we've gone through personally, what we've taken thousands of clients through and their, their responses.  I still would tell that same person who's eating that way that to make them to watch out for the pitfalls of falling into that dogma also of, oh, just because you feel amazing from it, that now you're never going to eat meat again. And like- Or did you, yeah. Did you go in like without like skipping over the step of just eating a ton of vegetables first? That's a great point. Why, like, you, like, I don't know. We get pulled into camps and tribes because of, you know, what's at the basis and the root of what is the benefit of it and what's the benefit of, of veganism, like for the most part, it's eating more vegetables. Yeah. And you got to look at, here's another thing you want to consider with carbohydrates. A lot of times when people dramatically reduce their carbohydrates and they feel amazing, it might be because they reduce the carbohydrates or it might be that a lot of the junk that they ate was carbohydrate in carbohydrate form. Right.  There's just a lot more. Like if I tell someone, go eat more proteins and fats, they tend to go eat more meats and things that are kind of closer to natural form.  So think about that for a second too. When the average American is on a high carb diet, that's crazy to think that a majority of those foods are more likely to be processed. Yeah.  That's usually not the case. It's usually lots of breads, lots of pastas, lots of crackers, lots of, you know, these highly processed things. Cereals and chips and candy and ice creams and bars. And I mean, that's what's really going down. So which one's the one that made you feel better? Is it that you reduced your carbohydrates or is it that you just eliminated the shit?  Same thing with increasing the fat in your diet and increasing the protein or doing all those things. You want to look at all the different kinds of factors that could be contributing to how good or bad you're feeling. Sometimes people just, they feel great, but it's just because they're eating less calories. You know what I'm saying? You got to look at all these factors because they all contribute to how you're going to feel. Not over-saturated and bloated and sluggish. Exactly. What was the second part to the question? I can't see it. About the industry, assholes, what?   Well, you know, if you want to be a positive influence, the best thing you could do, number one, is be very supportive of people's process. One of the biggest mistakes I made when I got into fitness was that I assumed that everybody was being as passionate and as dedicated to fitness as I was. So I'd get a client who'd come in and I'd be like, here's what you need to do. Do it. And then they wouldn't.   I, you know, I started to learn later on. I started to really appreciate how hard it was for people, how much they hated it. And I really took into account the psychology that goes behind exercise and eating right and the psychology that and the connections that go to food and, you know, taking time aside for myself and why I hate working out and, you know, maybe my past experiences. So number one, if you want to be a positive influence is be compassionate and empathetic and be supportive in that way. You know, when you're help people not judge themselves. In a non cheesy way. Yeah. Because you say that and then I feel like sometimes too, you get these. Well, no, you don't want to be condescending. Well, no, no, no, I don't mean condescending.  It's not like here. Well, it's nothing tangible. It's usually like ideas of like how to be inspired and like, you know, like let's, let's create something for you to think about and set goals and try to try to better yourself. Well, I'll give you an example. I had a client who right now he, you know, we're working together and I'm having him go through keto portion because we're trying to, I can't figure out how his body responds and how he feels.  He goes, you know, I got this award at work because I did a really good performance and my co-workers took me out and it's so hard to turn down and say no to them when they're taking me out.  I'm so sorry.  This is why I never, he was really beating himself up. And my response to him was like, hey, congratulations on your award. Like you deserved it. Good job. Good for you. And he's like, what? And I said, listen, stop judging yourself.  It's okay. There's more to food than it being good for you in terms of what's in the food. Sometimes it's just about celebrating and the food nourishes you differently. I said, don't judge yourself.  It's okay. Now tomorrow, today you didn't win the award or whatever. We get back on track and it's not a big deal. Well, I like to connect for people like that also that what's okay about that is something else was actually more important than your physical goal. It's okay.  You know, that's not a big deal either, but just you just being aware of that when you do make those decisions that it that means we do have a little bit more work that we have to do. It may take a little bit longer, which is totally okay, especially when you're doing something that that was more of a priority. And I think just making them aware of that, then they then you allow them to start to decide what sacrifices they should make and shouldn't make. We could do this dance all day long where you wanted to lose five pounds and it took a year for us to do that because you had so many things that were more important than your aesthetics. That's okay. If you're not that driven to lose the five pounds or get to that point and all the other things in your life are so much more rewarding to you, I'm okay with that. Even as a trainer, it's not my job to tell you what your goal is. My job though is to help you be aware of why those five pounds are probably really hard for you to get there. And that's because you have a lot of other things that you're making more of a priority than that. That's the biggest piece in the beginning. It's the awareness and it's you being able to highlight all these different like factors that are either going to contribute towards your goal or your fitness or becoming more healthy and what's going to detract you from that and then having a real deep understanding of that as a process. So just not damning the person and not overly congratulating certain things.  This is a thing is a constant conversation that I feel like just we have to keep talking about it because it's part of daily life and it's something that you can improve and then you can influence other people just by your attitude and the way that you interact with people and people are more likely to respond based off of like just being influenced by somebody who's actively doing what they say. Yeah, humanize yourself, right? I mean, I think that's, Sal was talking about the positive and this and that and I was saying, don't be cheesy. And what I meant more by that was like, humanize yourself, share. When you do something that's a positive thing that you post on social media or a thing that you do, I mean, I love to try and direct it through things that were, it was a growth process for me or one that I'm currently going through and sharing that. I think doing that with people because sometimes when you're a fitness leader, clients tend to think you're super human.  You must never drink. You must never eat any bad food. You must live in the gym. They see you as this goal that sure they kind of want, but then they really don't. So, you know, humanizing yourself and helping people see that, you know, it's not about this crazy hard discipline or sacrifice. It's more about understanding you and your body and what works for you and having true balance and understanding awareness and your goals. Brad Maschke 54. How can I wean myself off caffeine or lower my intake drastically? I feel like I'm addicted to pre-workout. Oh, wow. You probably are. Yeah, you probably are. Pre-workout teat. Caffeine is a chemical that you will exhibit classic addictive, it actually has classic addictive properties. So, they go, you know, physiological ones, at least you build up a tolerance. When you stop giving yourself caffeine, you have classic withdrawal symptoms and then your body comes back to normal and then the cycle tends to repeat. Here's a thing. One way is to go cold turkey, which means that you'll get through the withdrawal period faster. So, if you go cold turkey, expect five to seven days. I think that's what they say. Depends, man, because... Well, it depends exactly on how bad you are. If you're up to, like, a thousand milligrams a day. Well, not just that. A lot of these pre-workouts have more than caffeine. A lot of them will have all kinds of other stimulants and stuff and sometimes it could take a little longer. So, just understand that when you stop taking it cold turkey, the next week or so of workouts will suck. I don't ever recommend that to you. I used to do this. Oh, really? Yeah, I would just go straight, you know. And here's how I would... This is, by the way, this is how I know when I need to eliminate or reduce caffeine is I get less and less of the benefits of it and I start to notice more and more of the side effects. So, benefits of caffeine that I notice are more focus, more energy, uplift in my mood. The negatives that I'll start to get with caffeine are shaky, jittery, anxiety, and irritability. So, when I notice that the good stuff starts to drop and then I start to drink more of it, but then what ends up happening is I get more of the negatives, especially the irritability. I'll notice I'll get irritable. That's when I start to cut it out. So, you can go cold turkey or what I do is I just reduce my intake over the course of a week. So, if I'm having 10 ounces of coffee every single morning, then I'll go 10 ounces before my hardest workouts and 5 ounces before my easier workouts and then I'll go 5 ounces before every workout and then I'll go 5 ounces before my hardest workouts and none before my easiest workouts and I'll go none for a couple weeks.  Reintroduce it at a lower dose and you'll feel great, but I do this all the time. I cycle through this all the time.   Yeah, because you drink a lot of coffee. I drink a lot and I love it. You know what I mean? And like, I don't really necessarily feel a lot of the negative benefits, like the detriments of it when you, but I do tend to flirt with that and then I know I'm too high, you know, like I'm getting a headache or you know, like it's just not working for me. And so I'll back off, but I don't necessarily go cold turkey. What I'll do is I'll ramp it down and then I'll switch, you know, the type of coffee that I'm drinking and then just kind of start over and at the different blinds. Some people get really nasty side effects. Like I'll withdrawal, excuse me. I don't get them. If I cut caffeine out, all I get is tired. I'm just sluggish or whatever. Some people get migraines. I don't get migraines, but I get, it's pretty gnarly if I go from what I'm taking to absolutely nothing. I treat my caffeine addiction the same way I treat my marijuana addiction the same way. So very similar to what Sal said is I'm measuring the effectiveness of both of them and then the side effects.  Like, so imagine like I used to be like one cup of coffee in the morning was all I needed and wanted and that's fine. I could go off of that.  And then, you know, you're justifying yourself having 14 cups of coffee. And really, it's just not necessary to do that to get the same, it is for you to get the same effects because you've allowed that tolerance to build up.  And that's both for cannabis and for- That's one of my favorite things. My one of my favorite things is to go off and then to reintroduce it. And it's like, oh, it's great again. Yeah. The same thing like you said for cannabis. Oh, my old friend. Same exactly. What you need to know that's happening is when you're getting this, when you're ingesting whatever you're ingesting, whether it be caffeine or cannabis or whatever substance you're taking in, the way your brain develops a tolerance for is whatever chemicals or neurotransmitters it promotes.  Okay, those are the things that happen, but let's just talk about dopamine.   So that's number one. Number two, the receptors that this dopamine will attach to, or the receptors that the caffeine or whatever drugs start to attach to, they start to shut off. Your body will actually start to reduce its receptor availability.  This is why withdrawal on some drugs is so bad that you have to go to a hospital for it. For example, if you're addicted to opiates, withdrawal from opiates is supposed to be one of the worst experiences you could go through.  And it's just like that. And because you have no more opiate receptors, you're not developing your own endogenous opiates.  So that's just so you understand what's happening to your body. Yeah, no, I think that's, I think for that reason it's extremely important. And then, I mean, let's be even simpler. Like financially just makes sense. Yeah.    And I find it that rewarding also is teaching yourself control like that. Like, you know, how I've been lucky because I've had people in my family, I've been circled around people or I've had people in my circle that are been addicted to different drugs and different things. And I've seen what it's done to their life and take it over.  And I think caffeine and cannabis are two things that are really common with that. And I'll tell you, be honest and share my number. So for me and this, I think everybody should teach their own, right? But I've shared before that at nighttime is when I use cannabis.  I want that calming relaxation feeling and that's all it takes. And I will allow myself to consistently have that every night until I notice myself starting to get the point where I'll get through like a half a joint. I've never in my life sat down and smoked an entire joint ever and ever. I've never allowed myself to continue smoking so much that I feel like I need to sit down and smoke a whole joint just to feel the same effect that I feel from like one or two puffs, right? And the same thing goes for caffeine. You know, I did allow myself to get to a point where I was doing like four speed stacks a day. And that was like 200 or something milliliters. I remember you in those days. That wasn't just caffeine. Yeah, no. And I was a young dumb kid and I didn't know any better and stuff. And back then I would use studies. Look, there's tons of studies that show the benefits of caffeine. Caffeine's good, good, good. And right. So, you know, but no, but being addicted and dependent on anything is just, that's just silly. I shouldn't be that way. And I'm not getting the benefits of all the benefits of it.  And make sure, like as you're going through this process, you start like reintroducing more water. Like that's one thing I know that really helps when I'm moderating my caffeine intake is to really just focus more on, you know, hydration. Because a lot of times when I do get tired, it's because I'm dehydrated. Yeah, when I cut coffee, I actually cut it and then I replace with green tea. So I still get a little... I do the exact thing. If I get a little bit of caffeine still, but I don't, it's not, and I think that's what keeps me from getting the headaches in like the crazy withdrawals from going from like 400 milligrams to nothing just by having like, because I think green tea's about 10 to 15 milligrams, you know, in a glass of, you know, hot or cold green tea. So I normally allow myself to have that and replace a coffee and then eventually I'll try and go none whatsoever. And then it's pretty easy from there, to be honest. Rusty west side. I find back squats to mess with my hips and cause lower back pain even more than heavy deadlifts. But zurcher squats don't cause pain at all. Can I use zurcher to replace the back squats? I picked this question because I think... Actually, before you go into this, I want to remind the listeners that we still have, we've had so many people sign up for the 30 days of coaching. Oh yeah. It's free 30 days of coaching at mindpumpmedia.com where we send you information every day on a different topic and links to episodes where we talk about those topics in detail. I wanted to make sure I said that. No, I'm glad you so many people signed up. No, I'm glad you did. I wanted to point out too, why we created this, we got so many people that we're reaching out going like, man, I'm trying to turn somebody on to mindpump and I don't know where to start. I don't know what to give them. I don't know what episodes should they listen to. Like that's how we organize this. Not the Vajazzle episode. Yeah. Let's go 30 days of coaching. Unfortunately, it's not in the Vajazzle episode. It's not in the 30 days of coaching. Well, depending on your friend. But yeah. But it is organized in a perfect way to introduce somebody to mindpump because it purely is just all the good information as far as health, wellness, and all the topics. And you can choose to go dive deeper into it and listen to the actual podcast episodes that are pertaining to the topic of the day. And we try to, and we also, it's a working document for us. So we plan to evolve it. We already have ideas for the 2.0 version on what we're going to add to it. And we're going to continue to get feedback from people and this is going to be an awesome, awesome place for people to start off if they've never heard mindpump. So to address this question specifically, I mean, this just screams to me like prime. You know, it's like, let's all take a couple steps back. Like your body's giving you signals, right? Right. You're feeling pains in your lower back. You're feeling pains doing, like this is a foundational exercise. It's a fundamental movement. Fundamental movement, primal movement that you should be able to do without pain. That's a problem. And by the way, the reason why you can do a Zercher squat without pain and deadlifts without pain, a Zercher squat's more like a deadlift than a squat, than a squat. So that's why you can do deadlifts great and you can also do Zercher squats great. Is a Zercher a replacement for squat? No, it's different. It's a great accessory to the back squat. It's not a bad exercise. It's just not a replacement. You have some muscle imbalances. You have some recruitment pattern issues.  And once you can get into the squat and you've got good mobility in it, good control in it, good recruitment patterns in it, you will reap the benefits of one of the most effective exercises known to man. So that's why you want to do this. Let's not just breeze over and ignore the back-loaded squat. This is something that anybody who looks at the... I hear this about the deadlift too, right? And I hear this about bench pressing or overhead pressing. Or, well, I should just probably avoid it. Should you really... Are you really going to want to go from here on out, not having that ability anymore? Because you haven't addressed it on a deeper level and regressed your programming to get ahead of this before it becomes an injury. Think of it this way. If I have a huge splinter in my foot and it just kills me when I walk, the answer is not to stop walking. You know what I mean? Hey, doctor, my foot hurts.  That's not the answer. You've got to address the issue. This... The reason why I picked this question was because this is probably one of the hardest things as a trainer to do right here. I wanted to challenge us. And of course, the boys are going to go this direction. But I want to address how common it is that people don't listen to this advice and how important it is that you listen to this advice.  How quick can you give me...  If I take this supplement, will I look like this by this time? Can I do this instead of that? Because I don't like this. And it's like, like Justin said, your body is telling you something right now. And I have no idea how old this person is.  And it frustrated me as a trainer because I couldn't put my finger on it. I couldn't figure... I just figured I was not built to squat very well, and I'm not good at it, and it just drove me crazy. And I just ignored it because I could totally do a zircher squat. I could do a lunge, I could do a leg press, a leg extension, and none of those bothered my back. So that is so important that you address this now because this will, not maybe or probably, it's going to be a major issue for you down the road. Right now, it's already an issue, and it's already talking to you and telling you what you need to fix this. And this is also why we created Maps Prime was, and we were most excited about this program because this is what a majority of people need to be going through, especially if they're noticing things like this. If you're noticing that, and I can tell you right now, not even seeing who this person is, how old they are by what they're explaining, and that I know that a zircher doesn't bother them at a back load, a squat probably does, you probably have an excessive arch in your low back when you squat down. And that's probably caused because of your hips, right? So you probably have an anterior pelvic tilt just like that.  Yep, very hip flexor dominant. So you're not firing properly right now, and just ignoring it and doing other things that don't bother it is going to make that worse in the long run. So getting something like Prime, and if you can't afford to get Prime right now, then at least start over on the YouTube channel. We just did a back series. I talked about, I just talked about having an excessive arch in my low back. I think it was a five or a six part video series that we did. And the hip flexor deactivator. That's a good one. Yeah, that Sal mentioned. You know what too? So if you're on our forum, all you gotta do is videotape the yourself squatting front, side, and back and tag us, and then we'll address. Because it's hard for us to, I mean, we're making assumptions on our experience, what we see on a majority of people with what you're describing. Yeah, common issues. Yeah, but to be honest with you, the only way we'd really know what your issue is. Oh, I could be totally wrong. I could be totally wrong. We would need to see. But I feel pretty confident. Yeah, we'd need to see. We need to see. If we could see you squat, we would be able to address, let you know, kind of put in the right direction.  We talk a lot about how, out of everything that we've created, everything we've done with Mind Bump, it's by far the most awesome thing. And we think that we've created as far as the community that's inside of there. It's by far out of anybody that's purchased anything from us. It's the most valuable thing that we have. This month, if you enroll in the RGB bundle or the super bundle, you get it for free. And then you, this is the type of stuff you use it for is you get on that forum, you take a video of yourself squatting. And what's wrong with my squat? And you say, my low back hurts. This is going on. And probably before even one of us three can get on there and answer it, you'll have a chiropractor, a physical therapist, and a doctor probably answer you. And if not, we'll get on there and we'll get on there and answer and help you with it. So that's how powerful that community is. Take advantage of that for sure. Lindsay One Love, have you dealt with clients that are doing good at setting new habits and then self-sabotage, crashing their diet and fitness program? So the self-sabotage, phenomena is the, it's part of the whole, I'm on the wagon, I'm off the wagon situation. It's part of you addressing just a goal and addressing the mental side of this. Yeah, this is a, it's called a symptom eruption.  If you force them to or tell them, don't scratch your ear, don't do that anymore, they will, it'll build up, build up, build up, and then what we'll find, what we'll see is that there'll be what's called a symptom eruption where they then go and do it much more than they did before. The same thing happens with when you have clients who you're working with nutrition and exercise. If somebody comes to you and their diet is bad and then you say, okay, here's what you're gonna eat, here's what you're not gonna eat, and they get real strict on it. It was a very, it was a drastic change.  So first step, if you have a client who self-sabotages, number one, don't let them add a layer of shit to it by being angry with themselves and hating themselves for it because they're just adding a whole layer of difficulty to it. Help them be aware. So let them, you know, be empathetic with them, talk with them about it and say, look, this happened. Let's talk about why. Let's talk about what led to this happening. How did you feel while it was happening, while you were, you know, eating these foods or, you know, while you lost contact with me and didn't come into the gym, what was going on?  What was happening in your life or what was going on during that situation? It can be a difficult conversation but the person will start to examine what exactly is going on because now you can identify, you can start to identify what caused it, what the mindset was during it and then the next time, they're more aware of it happening when it potentially happens again. Well, this is why I connected so well with Dr. Andrew Hill when we had him here because when I was listening to him talk about this new way of handling addiction and these clinics that he has created and all the, all the progress that he was making, it was like this aha moment for me because I was like, oh my god, this is how I talk to my clients. It's so funny. And we talk about battling addiction with drugs and stuff. And that's what he, Dr. Andrew Hill came on here and his method is so uniquely different than any other clinic out there.  And, you know, they are having so much more success with actually allowing people to go back to the drug or back to the alcohol or back to the cigarettes or whatever. But then having them say, have some accountability on, let's talk about what led you there. You know, let's talk about your day leading up to that. Let's talk about what you were thinking about yourself, what you're thinking about the people that you're surrounded by, why you did, instead of just having one little thing, you had 15 things. Let's talk about all these things. And like Sal said, then you start to get to the real root cause, why these people are doing these things. And that right there, and this, and I think sometimes when we talk, I feel like some people, especially if you're not familiar with the trainer world or what it's like to even train a client, people probably think we're hokey and kind of hippie-like because we talk about feelings and emotional connection. It's just you have to, man. And if you don't focus on it, you're not gonna be effective trainer.  That's like most of your work as a trainer. Well, let's be, okay, let's put it this way.  As far as what you can tell people to do, but you have no idea like the mental side of the business. And so you provide just great programs, great nutrition, great help. You're still, it's, and you got, you still live by those numbers that 20% of the people actually stick through and go through with the whole process and follow it through. And so it's like a roll of the dice on if that, those people who said, that guy could still be some successful trainers. But I'll tell you right now, you start tapping into their feelings and what drives them and what motivates them, the psychological side of health and fitness. And you open yourself up to the 80% that is mostly failing. I'll go ahead and say that that's the reason why like these artificial intelligence like app programs, like fitness program, this and that, that you can get on the iTunes store, or whatever, will fail. They will fail because they don't have that accounted for, the psychological failure. You know who they'll look for? And that's the biggest, that's probably like, what would you guys would say? Probably at least 90%. No, it's 80%. It's 80% to 90%. 80% to 90%. You know where those apps will succeed and they might succeed? With the hardcore people. Just the 10%. Yeah, the 10%. But they're already doing it. Yeah. So that's who that appeals to. It does not appeal to the person who doubts himself and beats himself up and is high stress levels. It's again, it's a symptom eruption. You see this all the time with the strictest, most dedicated dieters in the world, physique and bodybuilder and bikini competitors. What do they all do after their competitions? They go nuts with food. Nuts. And it's not because, you know, it's not because the food tastes so good. It's not because it's, oh, I want that cake or I want that pizza because if you look and see what they eat, they don't just have some pizza. They go crazy.  It's a symptom eruption. It's true for all human behavior.   Do you know the irony? There are kings and weirdness. Check out the irony in this. My entire fitness career, even before fitness, never in my life have I ate like this before. Never have I, like outside looking in or reflecting back, you know, post competition, there has been at least two times where I can remember laying in bed with Katrina afterwards and eating food that was, I had balancing on my belly while I watched TV. Like because, because I was like a pile of food. Because I already had food sitting. I already had it actually sitting at a table already with her, but I was just going to keep eating and I wanted to keep like this because I was so deprived for so long. It's a psychological response. It is, you know, and I've never done that before.      Like, you know, I had no idea it led you to that point. And I also, I pride myself on being somebody who's very self-aware and pays attention to these things and doesn't allow myself to fall into these traps. And instead of that, the community is actually praising it. Well, they sell it, it's funny, they sell it right now. Now they sell like protein cake. I saw that the other day at one of those fitness expos and like, yeah, since we gave you cookies, we're going to give you cake, too. Dude, you're like, now you can eat it. You'll see on Instagram, you'll have competitors. You'll have competitors will post a picture of the food. This is like four weeks before competition. Yes.  They'll buy them already. Did you go, oh, yeah. Like, look at all these boxes of Oreos, cake, and whatever. I can't wait to eat this after my competition. I got it waiting for me. Tell me that's not a complex. Please. Dude, that is not a good relationship to food, man. Please, please tell me you guys have seen this. Tell me you have seen the commercials for this. No, what is that? Look at it. This blew my mind when I saw that a company is actually going to make money doing this right here.  It's a clear tube with a code, a locking code that you lock. And they show you to like lock like candy and treats that you're not supposed to have.  Like that's going to prevent people from having it. Oh, it's hilarious, dude. Do you see it, Sal? Yeah, I'm looking at it now. So what is it? It's like a. It's like a lock box. You lost it. It's like a food lock box. Are you watching the commercial that's called K-safe? Yes. Oh my God. So explain it, Adam. Well, you're looking at it right now. Well, I mean, it's a long commercial. So I can't really. Are you watching what they're putting in it and everything like that? You know how they're advertising? Yeah. Watch other advertising. Watch it. That's what I mean. We'll tell Doug to chop the 15 seconds that it takes you to watch it out of this. It's fine. I wanted you guys to talk about this. So it's safe. So it's like a safe that you put your food in. And what do you do? You lock. You just put the cookies in your cupcakes? I think I believe you can set it. So like, OK, M&M's, right? I want to be able to. I can only open it at 6 p.m. to 8 p.m., you know? And so you set these locking mechanisms on it to where. And they're not going to like just consume the whole thing that's in there. I mean, it's just. And then on top of that, it's this clear thing where it's sitting on.  You know what you're doing? You're only in security. You're strengthening the whole relationship. Oh, my God. So I'm very fascinated to see this company actually continue. I tell you what, if you have a client that does this, the self-sabotage, it's a great opportunity to work through this, I tell you. I, you know, I hate to say this because it sounds kind of wrong. But when I have clients that do this, I revel in it. I'm like, OK, here we go. Here's an opportunity to work through what just happened. And how we work through this is going to determine how this person is going to succeed, you know, in the near future. And what you don't do is you don't hammer them for it. You don't let them hammer themselves for it. You talk about what happened, what happened before, what happened during. How did you feel afterwards? Like you got to, and here's the thing, people, and you realize when you talk about things and you actually process them differently. So although they may be in their mind, they know kind of they felt shitty afterwards, actually talking about it makes it a little different. How did you feel after you ate all that pizza? Like, oh man, I felt, I don't know, I felt kind of groggy. And like, how did you feel the next day? Well, I woke up and my stomach hurt.  Oh, it was really gassy. And just really start making those connections. And you know, what led you to eat that? Well, I was at the party and there was a piece, you know, the food there. And I knew I wasn't supposed to eat me. And then I'd be like, OK, stop right there. What do you mean you're not supposed to have any? Oh, well, I have these goals and say, well, I understand that. But what do you mean by not supposed to? What happens if you do have a little bit of it? Well, I'm not supposed to have any of it. But if I have a little bit, then I guess I'm off. I say, OK, well, why didn't you just have a little bit? Well, like, I don't know. That's a good question. And we'll talk about that. Well, maybe because you thought you couldn't at all.  No holds barred because it's all or nothing. And that's when people do the whole self-sabotage thing.  I agree. Yeah. If you like Mind Pump, believe us a five-star rating review on iTunes. If you like your review and we pick it, you'll get a free Mind Pump t-shirt. Also, stop this podcast. Go to YouTube. Check us out Mind Pump TV, a brand new video every single day. 365 days a year, you will get a video that teaches you how to exercise better, new exercise techniques, nutrition, motivation, comedy, I don't know, something. Sex life, everything. Everything, everything. New video every single day. Also, find us on Instagram at Mind Pump Radio. Yeah. You can find me at Mind Pump Sal, Justin at Mind Pump, Justin and Adam at Mind Pump Adam. Thank you for listening to Mind Pump. If your goal is to build and shape your body, dramatically improve your health and energy, and maximize your overall performance, check out our discounted RGB Superbundle at mindpumpmedia.com. The RGB Superbundle includes Maps Anabolic, Maps Performance, and Maps Aesthetic. Nine months of phased expert exercise programming designed by Sal Adam and Justin to systematically transform the way your body looks, feels, and performs. With detailed workout blueprints and over 200 videos, the RGB Superbundle is like having Sal Adam and Justin as your own personal trainers, but at a fraction of the price. The RGB Superbundle has a full 30-day money-back guarantee, and you can get it now plus other valuable free resources at mindpumpmedia.com. 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Hi, my name is Kyle Hatton. I am a head and neck and reconstructive surgeon at the University of Maryland School of Medicine. I'm an associate professor and also serve as the director of head and neck robotic surgery. I also have a role in the Greenbaum Comprehensive Cancer Center of acting as the director of our multidisciplinary care clinic. I have really dedicated my career to treating patients of head and neck cancer and offering them the least amount of side effects for this disease. I have special training and robotic surgery that is very well suited to treat a lot of our patients who are affected by tonsil or base of tongue cancers that are associated with the human papillomavirus. I became a doctor because I just enjoy caring for patients. And I think I specifically became a head and neck cancer surgeon because I really appreciate the opportunity to care for patients in their time of need. I went to medical school at the University of Maryland School of Medicine and went to residency at the University of Pennsylvania where I underwent six years of training to specifically treat head and neck cancer and benign tumors of the head and neck. I had a special interest in robotic surgery where minimally invasive techniques were used to remove tumors of the back of the tongue, deploying a small robot that can remove tumors without any appreciable scars on the outside of the face. patients fortunately have great cancer outcomes from this technique and then also return to their quality of life as fast as possible. My goal for each of my patients is to get the best opportunity for cure with the least amount of side effects.


It's theCUBE, covering Sapphire Now 2017. Brought to you by SAP Cloud Platform and HANA Enterprise Cloud. Hey, welcome back everybody. Jeff Rick here with theCUBE, ongoing coverage of SAP Sapphire 2017 in Orlando. And we're excited to have Floyd, streaming on the phone. He is the Global Vice President SAP Cloud Platform and he is running around the Orange County Convention Center. So Floyd, how are you doing today? You're quite loud in the convention center. I can hear you perfectly. So first off, we actually were just doing a kind of a keynote analysis of HOSO today. You know, we see a lot of keynotes. We go to a ton of conferences and I thought he was just spectacular, touched on so many topics and really seems to be on his game. To attend a HOSO quiet and a keynote, you never know what's going to be on the agenda. You never know which way he's going to take it. I thought today he had all the big points. I mean, whoever thought he was in HOSO doing a lecture on GPUs and core conversions as far as what's going on in computing. Oh, absolutely. Because one of his quotes, and I was live tweeting during the keynote, was, you know, we want to get as fast to the cloud as possible. And you guys are backing that up with action with all the announcements with AWS and Google Cloud Platform. I think you have Azure underway.  And then, you know, you've rebranded and now you've also got a couple flavors of the SAP cloud.  I mean, you have such a great installed base and you're in so many mission critical applications, obviously with the ERP background.   It was, you know, the SAP way or the highway, you know, we know best. It's a big monolithic application. That has completely turned upside down. And maybe I've been paying attention as to when that started to happen. But, you know, that was a very clear message that he's changing the way that you guys build, deliver, and develop software for your customers. Yeah, the other part too, again, there were so many angles in that keynote this morning, was just the whole machine learning and artificial intelligence. Because, you know, it's one thing to talk about it kind of in the abstract, but, you know, HOSO is very clear.  But more importantly, you guys have so much data in your systems that you can start to apply the machine learning and the AI and these new intelligent applications and the machine can learn by doing, you know, thousands or millions of repeated scenario processes and start to affect really what on some level might seem like mundane or simple processes like invoice matching to actually very, very powerful if you can actually match 94% of the invoices without having a human touch. You know, that's a tremendous business impact. Well, yeah. The other great analogy that he used today was, you know, kind of comparing Tesla to, I presume Mercedes, he didn't call it out by name, but, you know, that not only is it a different way to have control knobs and this and that in terms of software versus even a beautifully designed and ergonomically proper dashboard, but it's also a different buying experience and just a different experience in general and really using that as kind of a comparison for really this transformative way that things are being done now that's different from before and really it's a software enabled and software powered intelligent design, no manual way of looking at things.   So, Floyd, I know you're kind of up against it on the time, it's busy there in Orlando, so I just wanted to get, you know, give you the final say any special surprises, funny chatter coming off the floor, what's kind of the vibe there in Orlando on the floor? All right, Floyd, well, I think that's a great summary and, you know, I think you're fortunate, you've got, you still have that founder DNA, you still got, you know, a really strong founder that obviously drives that culture and the fact that he has embraced these mega trends going forward is only good and clearly reflected in the performance of the company. So, thanks for taking a few minutes of your time and I'll let you get back to the action there on the floor in Orlando. All right, thanks a lot. That's Floyd Strimling from Orlando. He is the global VP of SAP Cloud Platform. I'm Jeff Frick, you're watching theCUBE and our ongoing coverage of SAP Sapphire 2017. Thanks for watching.


Welcome to JSA TV, where we're covering the latest stories, trends and innovations from leaders in global connectivity digital infrastructure and the networks within. I'm Allison Whelan and joining me today is Patton Lockridge of Ban with IG. Today we're going to be chatting a little bit about dark fiber across key US data center markets. So Patton, welcome. Thank you so much for joining me. Thank you so much for having me. Of course, so Ban with IG is one of the fastest growing pure play dark fiber companies in the US with networks in all of the key markets. Can you tell us more about your networks and why you chose in those specific markets? Sure, networks and markets. I mean, I think start with the networks. I think it's relevant to explain the way that we've like the physical asset, the way that we've built it and then explain kind of where we take it because I think it's a little bit different than what we typically see in the market. So we've you mentioned we're pure play dark fiber infrastructure provider and that is true. And thus we have a set of customers that are really the largest consumers of bandwidth in the world. That's naturally going to get going to be who demands dark fiber. So they're pretty peculiar about the way that they want their networks built. So if you go into a big network, Ban with IG market and you look at the asset, it's going to be built almost exactly the same in every market that we're in. It's 100% underground. It's essentially maxing out conduit induct packages in the right way, pulling large high count cables. So trying to solve for scalability and we'll do it in right of way that we procure and that we build in that's typically unique and typically different from some of the incumbents that already exist in that market. That's how we think we had value. So it's really truly purpose built. Absolutely. There's definitely that value and scalability. That's what we're after. And then the markets, you know, why are we in the markets that we're in and why are we going in the markets that we're going to? Well, naturally, a lot of these customers that we work with, they're in the data centers, right? And one thing I didn't mention about our networks is that we build express routes between data centers. So that's another differentiator. We're not trying to splice out and take fiber, a pair here, a pair there to every cell tower, every enterprise building. Others do that. That's important for the market in general, but it's not where we fit in. We truly build undisturbed kind of express routes in between the centers of compute. So data centers, third party data centers, you know, cloud campuses, carrier hotels, anything where you have a big core central nucleus of compute is where we want to be. And so when we're going into markets, naturally that ecosystem needs to either exist or we think it's going to exist sometime in the future. And so that's kind of why we're in the markets that we're in, is those data center ecosystems really exist. And the second thing we look at is, and this is usually not a hard one, is we'll go into a market and for that type of application in the infrastructure that is needed in these markets, from a fiber infrastructure standpoint, typically doesn't exist. And so that's important for us. If it doesn't exist, we want to be there to make it available to our customers. Every market has fiber, but it's not all built equally. It's not all built the same way. It's not all built the way that our customers need it. So that's kind of, that's our network and that's why we go where we go. Strategic targeting there. And dark fiber is such a critical piece of the network pie. How are things like cloud computing and AI, which I'm sure we'll talk about all week here at Metro Connect, but things like AI contributing to the need for more dark fiber? Yeah, I mean, that's everything to us, right? I mean, obviously cloud computing happens in the data center. And so it's those customers that we partner most closely with. And so, yes, they are driving the dark fiber industry. And, you know, I think you've got four major cloud providers, right? Their trajectory has been steepened to the right for years, right? And that's just for cloud computing. Right. And so we're a big part of helping them solve that. And there's many private cloud providers and others that we work with as well. I think the second part of that question is kind of how it's changing and how it's giving rise to more demand. Let's just talk AI. Right. Because cloud computing's been happening for a while. AI in recent, you know, 12, 24 months, there's absolutely unprecedented demand for compute, space, power to solve this. Just kind of like, I can't think of a better word than unprecedented in terms of the amount of demand that we're seeing for data centers, space and power. And with that is going to require more fiber. Because the fiber, oh sorry, because these facilities demand so much power, everybody's only talking about power, power, power. Right. And it's just driving a lot of these developers and these hyperscalers and so forth out of a traditional metro and into more kind of semi-rural, kind of deep suburbia. And so I think kind of the way that it's contributing to more development in dark fiber and changing that is it's no longer just sitting in the middle of a metro where fiber was considered fungible. It's just sort of around. Right. That's not the way it is anymore. Now, you know, way outside of the metro, the worst thing you can do is build a big 100 megawatt facility and then not have fiber to it. So we're spending a lot more time, way in advance of these developments with our data center partners, our hyperscale partners and those that are interested in driving this development to ensure that we're getting, you know, multiple routes, built the way we build it out to these new locations that haven't existed before. Absolutely. Fiber is key. Yeah. AI just doesn't happen on its own, right? No. And to talk about markets a little bit more, last month you announced a big network expansion in San Francisco. Congratulations, by the way. So exciting for your team. What additional plans do you have to keep up with the demand for more dark fiber in areas like San Francisco or these other markets that we discussed? Yeah. I mean, I think San Francisco was textbook kind of market for us to enter. And you have a very robust data center ecosystem that already exists in that market, right? So that's something that I don't think it's maybe second behind Northern Virginia is the most critical IT load and one central in geography. So for us to come in and interconnect a lot of those facilities and keep up with that growth was a very natural thing for us to do. There were a lot of kind of older telecommunications networks in the ground that, like I said, may serve the purpose for enterprise locations, may send packets up and down office buildings, but are not quite cut out for kind of the new AI compute requirements and data center compute requirements. So that was a very natural place for us to come in and kind of change that market from a fiber perspective. I think we'll continue to look for markets like that and grow into more markets like that as those demand signals come. And really in our existing markets, data centers used to just be fine with a route in a route out. No problem.  That's totally changed now. You're seeing tenants of these data centers say, no, no, no, I need three routes, I need four routes and not just entrances that are unique, but actual paths through the metros that are completely unique from a tertiary or even a quadrier, whatever word that is, four routes to solve kind of their minimum requirement. So that's kind of what we're up to. Well, you guys are definitely busy and congratulations again on the growth. It was great getting to catch up with you and see you and thank you viewers for tuning in to JSA TV. Thanks a lot.