For more videos on people's struggles, please subscribe to our YouTube channel. Hello and welcome to People's Dispatch. Today we're joined by two activists of the Young Communist League of the United Kingdom, that's Jess and Rosie, and we're talking at a time when there's a grave crisis in the universities in the country. There's been a huge increase in the number of cases recorded by students. The latest numbers say that at least 4,000 cases have been recorded in the universities in the past few weeks alone, and this has happened after the universities have opened. Activists, especially of the left, were in the forefront demanding that a much more cautious approach be taken, a much more careful and medically sound approach be taken, and now we have this huge increase in cases. So thank you so much for joining us. So the first thing I wanted to ask was could you first talk right now about what's happening in some of the major universities, especially where a lot of cases are being recorded, we've seen universities reporting hundreds of cases, 200, 400, etc. So could you talk about what's happening on the ground right now, what are the students feeling, what's happening? From what I know is that a lot of the students who have gone into halls have basically been trapped there with people who have tested positive, which then you know will spread it to them and you're right, the numbers are up in the hundreds. I think Sheffield has recently reported 800 cases like in the last, you know, I think they've been open for two, three weeks, and yeah, it's just, you know, they've been not allowed to go out, they're not allowed to use the washing machines that are in the buildings that they're in, and they are having no financial support either from the unions or the government. Yeah, just just to go off of that point, sort of two major hot spots for the outbreaks have been Scotland and Manchester and as you say Sheffield more recently, Scotland, as they have separate government ministers, they have taken a slightly different approach, and no students have been allowed out in bars and pubs, and all I believe all of the university halls that have coronavirus outbreaks are being locked down. And those students might not even, might face the threat of not even being allowed to go home for Christmas.  You know, say in Manchester, I know people that have got the virus from Manchester, from universities in Manchester, and it's these urban areas that the virus has been allowed to spread through government negligence. And possibly, I don't know if we're going to talk about this later, but possibly the reasoning just being towards appeasing the landlords and the student accommodation providers who want the rent from the students. Absolutely. Yeah, that is a definitely important issue we'll come to. But first of all, maybe go a bit back and talk about the reopening itself. So could you talk a bit about the context in which the universities have in classes reopened, that is physical classes reopened? What was the YCL's position then on the issue? And what were the kinds of necessary precautions taken? We'll talk a bit about that. So yes, the government was adamant that the schools and universities were going back. And it was sort of given the impression at first that, oh, it'd be online, but perhaps maybe we'd get some sort of face to face learning so that there was a reasoning why the students would want to come back to campus. But as soon as students are back on campus, it's been all online learning. From my experience, I'm not sure about Rosie's, but for most students across universities in the UK, it's been all online learning, which is the appropriate thing to do, absolutely. But did it need university students to be moving to halls for this? I'm not so sure. But yeah, certainly the approach to online learning has been a good one. It's certainly a decrease in the quality of learning that we've had in previous years. It's been face to face. It's just not the same. We're not paying for the same quality of teaching. And this needs to be recognised as well. Just to go off what Jess said there, with the online learning, obviously, is the best thing that we can have at the moment. It is brilliant. But there is so much inaccessibility with it as well. Because there are a lot of students who, you know, the university will say, well, my university has given a statement of you must have at least a computer, at least this software and this and that. And for me, it's that the people dropping out of my course and out of uni because they just can't, like, they don't have the financial ability to be able to get those materials for it. And in this context, it's interesting you raise the issue of the landlords of those who collect rent and whether there was a policy to appeasing them. So could you talk a bit about what's been happening there, especially students who are staying in accommodation, what has been the kind of safety precautions has the university intervened, have universities in general, intervened in any way with regard to that, and has there been any organising around it? So initially, we had sort of university students, even international students, actually, from, I mean, Middlesex University is a very international university. We have campuses in Dubai, in Malaysia, I believe. So we have students coming from there and they've continued to come, even Portugal. And I think the university protocol was to get them to self-isolate for two weeks. But there was no infrastructure put around these international students and their self-isolation. They didn't have the financial services, the student only hadn't come in, so they couldn't support themselves. So the self-isolation often was being broken because it was a choice between self-isolating and starving or going out and finding a job and being able to afford to eat. So yeah, that's a major issue in terms of the accommodation. And yeah, the student landlords, you know, I'm in a student house myself and they'd be quite frankly out of business if students hadn't been migrating. There's no need for us to be in these student houses in the same way that it would be in usual term times. Also, student accommodation providers, big like student halls, they're quite common over here. And they're all full again. And again, with the self-isolation issues, little support to help students needing to self-isolate. I think with the problem with the halls is that a lot of universities have said, oh, you will have some classes in smaller groups physically. So you have to come in, you have to book these hall spaces.  Absolutely right. And also to sort of maybe take it at a larger policy level, we've seen an unprecedented crisis in education across the world. It's not only in the UK, it's across the world. And governments have responded, of course, differently in different ways, but especially in Europe and of course the UK, there's this is also coming in a time of great austerity measures. So we have seen over the years governments really cutting down funds on education. So has there been any kind of rethinking from the side of policymakers from the side of governments on this issue, or is it still the same world that's happened? Well, I think it's personally still the same because, you know, we're just not getting out of university what we pay, you know, back in, well, a few years ago, there was the increase in our tuition. And now we pay 9,250 pounds to basically just have a link to a Zoom meeting. A lot of students have been having rerecorded lectures of what they had last year. And there is just no, you know, we're not getting, for lack of better words, bang for our buck, you know, like it's just, we're not getting what we're paying for. And there has been some frustration from students, there was a petition on the petition's website that Parliament responded to, and they said, no, we can't refund you, we can't do anything about it. Yeah, there's I think, in terms of like the money side and the student loan side, the government has found themselves in quite a tricky position, because they're lending large amounts of money out, which often don't get paid back. So in the UK, just for a bit of context, if you don't pay your student loan back within 30 years, it gets wiped. And they're beginning to find that these student loans probably weren't paid back. Because if you're not earning a think below above 23 or 25,000 pounds, you don't need to start paying. So there's this sort of dichotomy. But on the other hand, universities, many universities, especially mine, which is quite a small university, survive mainly off of the student loans of the students. So they need those big student loans to be able to exist. And so the government can't stop giving out these loans and can't stop charging these large tuition fees because many of the universities would go under. And so they're in this sort of technical issue where they can't, they can't change either way. But we're not seeing any major push towards investment to do anything, any proclamations of that sort. I'm not sure in terms of the government, there is beginning to be students, students organizing and pushing for protests, but it needs to be on a much wider scale.  It's kind of been a non issue for them, you know, they're just like, I will do this. And then that's your problem. Absolutely. Right. And just finally, in terms of the YCL itself, what are right now the key planks around which the organizing is happening? What are the kinds of demands that various branches and as a national organization, you're sort of putting across to authorities across the country? Well, I know we're going to be there's some protests happening at Barrett universities and the YCL. There was one in Scotland yesterday, they were present there. And then also, on the 26th, we'll be going to a protest as well, from my university, which is UAL. So, you know, we're kind of supporting other universities. And we've also been leafleting at universities to try and spread the word of being like, you should join the YCL for, you know, support, and we will be able to, you know, help you organize at your university to fight these injustices. Yeah. I think also, as an organization, we're trying to just push for like the basic sort of, like rights for the students to be able to come home for Christmas, to not have to go back after Christmas, if the situation is as bad. And just pushing for a safe environment of teaching, as well as obviously, the abolishing, if not the reducing of the loans, we will be hoping to organize and protest alongside students. I think we've got some plans to get involved in some protest because the response hasn't been quick enough in terms of organizing. And we need to be a force within this. And also, just to insert one more time, we've been planning on putting posters up around Uni's because obviously this is going to be a really lonely time for a lot of students because they don't have the freshest fair, they can't just go mingle with other students. So they're kind of lost for, you know, they don't really have a sense of community anymore. So we hope that the YCL can give them like this sense of belonging and being able to interact with other like-minded people as well. Absolutely. Thank you so much for Jess and Rosie for speaking to us, and we hope the struggle continues. That's all we have time for today. Keep watching People's Dispatch.


Good morning. I'm Kevin Carey. I'm the Director of the Education Policy Program here at the New America Foundation. Thanks so much to all of you for coming this morning. I was downstairs on the third floor and we have a, our conference room is full of people watching this. So if you're somewhere else in the building, hello. Thank you also for sticking around for what has really been a terrific conversation this morning. Our next panel is going to focus on the credentialing part of this discussion. We have really a fantastic group here, people that are working in the private sector, in governments, on the research side of things with some great perspectives. Rather than having introductions, I'm going to just kind of dive right into the discussion and start with Tony Carnivali from Georgetown University. He's really one of the nation's premier experts on the intersection between higher education and the workforce and the labor market. Tony and your colleagues at the center have written quite a bit in recent years about the rise of certificates in the ecosystem of training, higher education and the workforce and that there really has been a remarkable and in some ways under-recognized increase in the number of people earning certificates granted through some combination of post-secondary institutions and industry. How and why did that happen and is it a good thing? I think in general, and in reading this report, it struck me that in general we're talking about a very rich and fast moving environment. Certificates are probably the primary indicator of that in the American system. That is they are, to a certain extent, a unique American invention. We need something shorter, faster, more direct. We got a lot of it. Some of it with economic value, maybe about half of it, some of it without, but had other kinds of value. Some people do want to learn basket weaving. So you know, there is a, the churn in this arena is what's striking and when I read this report, what struck me about it was that its analysis of the American system was largely what we often hear and that is that the American system is diverse, chaotic. There's lots of churn and change. There is quality sporadically here and there, but we have trouble bringing it to scale and making it consistent. That is a very old story about the United States written by the OECD many, many times in the last several decades. But the answer from the European perspective is usually that we need more committees and more meetings and more governance and more explicit standards and things that are really quite un-American and would probably lose us most of the kinds of creativity that we are associated with, including the development of certificates. I think the truth of this is when I look at the OECD report, my instinct was to give this to a graduate department like the Harvard Business School and say, here's another management problem. Tell me how you solve that and I know what they would say. They would say that the way you solve that in modern management as distinct from industrial management where you did have high governance, high touch, rule-based, top-down bureaucratic systems is that you run this system as we hear over and over again in all the comments before, that you run this system by specifying outcome standards. You don't interfere with the workings of institutions. You use information and then as we hear over and over again this morning, the first thing you get is transparency. The big issue, of course, is what do you do with transparency once you have it and that's where government and individuals and institutions intervene because transparency, as the higher ed folks know, is really the slippery slope to accountability. I think the first step in, the reason we all say transparency, is it has a how can you be opposed to it, but people are right to be nervous about it. It is the first condition of building an outcomes-based managerial structure in the modern sense. I think there are some of us here in Washington, D.C., that would like nothing better than to get higher education on that slippery slope and kick it so it slides down as fast as possible. Sharon Boyvin is the acting associate commissioner for post-secondary adult and career education division at NCES, the National Center for Education Statistics. You can go on the NCES website and get a pretty good sense of how many people are earning bachelor's degrees in America and where they got them and what they were granted in. It seems that our basic infrastructure of information about career and technical credentials is not as precise. I understand this is something that you're working on. Can you talk a little bit about that and what we can do to improve it? Absolutely. I'd be happy to, Kevin. If you look at the American Community Survey, the educational attainment of the U.S. adult population, if you look at people ages 25 to 34, these are people who are entering the labor market and supposedly need to have some kind of credential or competency or something to show an employer that they have the skills to do the job, if you look at that group of people across pretty much all the states, about 30 percent of the U.S. adult population of that age range says that they have some college because that's what we measure in educational attainment in the ACS is some college. But what does that mean? It doesn't mean that somebody necessarily has any kind of a credential that they can show to an employer to say I have the skills to do a job. As a result, back in 2009, an interagency working group came together under the, was commissioned by the Council of Economic Advisers, Martha Cantor, the Under Secretary of Education, and Kathy Wallman, the Chief Satistician of the United States at the Office of Management and Budget. And we brought together members of the federal statistical community from the Bureau of Labor Statistics, the Census Bureau, NCES, and now the National Center for Science and Engineering Statistics. And we've been working to develop new measures of the prevalence of industry recognized certifications and educational certificates in the United States. We've also recently started to develop new survey items that will help us understand the role of education and training, including non-credit education and formal on-the-job training in helping people acquire the skills that they need for work. Back in April, NCES released a methodology report based upon a 2009 pilot study called the Adult Training and Education Study, and it included recommendations from the panel, the Interagency Committee on Expanded Measures of Enrollment and Attainment, which we abbreviate GEMINA, and if you Google GEMINA, it's not the city in the Congo, and it's not the Ethiopian drama on TV, but if you go a little further down, you will see GEMINA from NCES, and that is the GEMINA I'm talking about, and there's a lot of information in there about the work that we're doing, but this pilot study report that was released in April contains recommendations for items on industry recognized certifications and occupational licenses that can go into federal surveys or into other surveys, if anyone is interested in grabbing these items for your own data collections, that will help us understand from individuals what is the stock of human capital in the United States. We heard Marlene say earlier that LMI is giving us better information about the demand, but what we really need more information about is what are people learning, what credentials do they have, what competencies do they have, and what can they show employers that will help them understand what the human capital is within their local labor market, within the region, within the country. And at this point, we are working both to deploy those items that had been validated and recommended by the GEMINA group to other federal surveys that, to all the federal surveys that have to do with households or individuals, and we are also working to develop a new survey within NCES that will go periodically to adults to get a broader picture of what the education training and credentials are in this country that people need to get and to use in order to get jobs. Thanks. Dr. Roy Swift is currently the senior director of personnel credentialing accreditation programs at the American National Standards Institute. Dr. Swift, you spent a lot of your career in the armed services. 28 years. Which is an enterprise that is highly skills and education focused. Very much so. How did the armed services measure the acquisition of skills and are there things from that system that are broadly applicable to the issues we're discussing today? Well, probably the military is the best example of competency-based education and has been doing it for many, many years in this regard. But I first have to say, I have to get this out, that certification is one of the most abused words used. Everybody has a different nation. It's kind of like Gomer Pyle saying that certification is like a box of chocolates. You never know what you're going to get. And that is very true. It is a word that has many, many meanings and probably the majority of people who say they have a certification program do not have a certification program based on national accepted standards regarding certifications. So when we talk about quality assurance and higher education, we also have to talk about quality insurance on the certification side of the house that more things are abused in the word of certification. And it's no wonder that employers sometimes say, well, the certification is no good. They arrived and they didn't have the knowledge and skills that they said they were going to have. Well, it's because of measurement. We have seen it in apprenticeship programs. We have seen it in certificate programs and we certainly see it in what are called certification programs that the quality of measurement is the weak Achilles heel. No one is really ground. When we see some of the certificate programs in this country, one of the biggest nonconformities in the accreditation is in the assessment that when you talk about a criterion referenced examination, looking at pass fail scoring, nobody knows what that is. So the academic preparation evidently is one of the issues that we need to talk about. Now in the military, you don't leave, you either are watched out or you don't leave until you have demonstrated performance. I remember I used to get very frustrated. I was in the health care department. I was involved with occupational therapy at the Academy of Health Sciences, where we were teaching what would be called a two year associate degree, occupational therapy assistant. And the rule is that there are a lot of performance examinations in the military because it's very skill oriented. And one of the things is that when a soldier fails a performance examination, they don't just wash them out because they've spent a lot of money in training to that point. They say you have to reteach and retest, retech and retest. I used to think, well, I don't know if they fail, they should just be kicked out. But you know what? Some of our best people who had to retest three times, but eventually learn the skill and prove their skill. This is one of the issues. The assessment again is the weak link because everybody can talk about competency based education. But first of all, lastly, you have to measure it. You can have all the competencies you want. But it's measuring whether they actually do it or not. So this is my plea, plea that skill based learning is really performance and that there is strengthening of the assessment tools. And that we've got to get out of credentialing terminology chaos. We're talking past one another. We don't know what you either talking about. When you say certification, you might be in one thing. You say certification, you might be in one thing. Certificate, sometimes it's certificate of attendance, sometimes it's certificate of completion, sometimes the certificate of achievement. We are credit agencies that are assessment rates certificate because that's what we chose to look at in this game through an American national standard. And we believe that there is a quality standard for certification on ISO standard. But what I think the report was referring to is the sector specific standards that would be a compliment to what a quality certification program is the ISO standard, which is also an American national standard is a generic standard about if you say you certified people, this is what you have to do. Because often a lot of people certify, but they don't have a recertification program. And it's not transparent as to what that is. Certifications can go all away from paying your money and getting a diploma or a certificate in the mail to one that is based on a job analysis that looks at what the stakeholders and industry is saying on an ongoing basis, because they have to update that examination or it doesn't maintain its content validity in this regard and its reliability. And the one thing that people forget about in certification, a true certification program has procedures to take it away. The certificate does not belong to the individual. The certificate belongs to the certification body who is to monitor that for the industry in this regard. And there's a lot of criticism, even if the ones that it will be considered premier certifications in this country, that they are not monitoring their certificates in a manner that would allow business to understand that there is someone there that first of all has an automatic way of updating because certification says that if you don't update in a certain way based on their standards, then you lose the certification. So industry has ready made mechanisms to help people continually update with the various things. And also then a monitoring system that if they are a complaint is lodged, there has to be due process. So that's more long-winded than I know you wanted, but you can tell I'm passionate about this subject because it's the other part of the scale. We talk about quality assurance and higher education, but the credentialing world is in just the much of a mess. And guess who controls the credentials? Not higher education, the professional societies, and we don't talk about the professional societies who are the gatekeeper. I was a specialized accreditor. I chaired the Accreditation Committee for the American Occupational Therapy Association. There's no communication between institutional accreditation and programmatic accreditation. We tried to do it at the SUNY Buffalo one time. We couldn't even get them to talk to us on site, you know, and we're both asking for the same information. So the universities get frustrated and say, I've got 55 accrediting bodies coming to me this year. They're all asking the same questions. There's the overlap of information. This is nonsense. And so the accreditation community needs to be called the task about looking at this in cooperation with higher education in looking at that. Sorry. Thanks. Brent Wild is Senior Vice President and Treasurer at the Manufacturing Institute, which is the 501c3 affiliate of the National Association of manufacturers. You know, part of the conversation around credentials that you hear a lot these days has to do with this idea of stackable credentials. And when I ask people, well, who's, you know, who's actually doing that? Like, where's the, what are good examples of stackable credentials? What does that mean? People tell me that the Manufacturing Institute is kind of like really leading that conversation. Can you tell us a little bit about what that means and the work that you're doing? Sure. But I'm going to start by putting it in context to start by saying that for many manufacturers, the majority of which are really 20 people or fewer, the career and technical system is really teetering on the verge of the relevance, essentially. And I mean, know that because we've asked them and when we asked them, where do they turn to for a qualified workforce? Where do they turn to for workers entry level on up? Top of the list is word of mouth. Second on the list is staffing agencies. And the bottom of the list of somewhere near margin of error is career and technical and community college system. Now we represent manufacturers and when I talk to manufacturers, I tell them they're out of their minds because we have a career and technical system that exists to train people into the skills needed for manufacturers. On the other hand, when I'm here talking to educators mostly, and so I'll say we are out of our mind as educators because we're really missing an opportunity to engage and we're missing a clear opportunity to have relevance for manufacturers that do need a very specific set of competencies. When we when we approached that, we did start with the advanced manufacturing competency model at U.S. Department of Labor really around the competencies identified by industry that were needed. And again, a lot of times the emphasis on education pathways look at the very top of the chain. Look at the engineers and the scientists. And we do need those, but we're not going to have them unless we have people that have basic skills in mathematics and applied mathematics being able to locate information that they're going to use being technicians that then can grow within their within a career pathway. That's really a lifelong learning opportunity. So industry actually has taken the lead. Manufacturers have taken the lead in defining a series of credentials that do lead up to from the basic levels into more advanced specific occupations and high demand, such as advanced machining and welding and the like. We did that really by setting our own criteria for what is what is going to be a solid credentialing system that's going to work, what industry certifications are there. And we base that on they had to be nationally portable, third party validated certifications, industry based and recognized data supported and time back to the competencies in the competency model. We have identified now 14 certification partners and pathways then that we endorse on behalf of the National Association of Manufacturers and are gaining traction in making in making that happen. Different and having very successful different models of how that can work. So when it's tied to industry certifications, then that gives a bridge from two plus two programs from high school into the community colleges that gives an equal footing and understanding of what are those competencies to it's not it's not just a matter of seat time but based on the competencies that are there. Articulation from two year into four year bridging from noncredit to credit programs all on the basis of those certifications that get back to do they really get to the competencies needed by manufacturers. Some of the success that we've seen in then has been for example in accelerated models. We know that the vanishingly small the number of people they're going to finish a two year degree in a two year time span. So really how do we can we accelerate in a credit model for that includes credit and industry certification in a way that does have market value there really bringing in manufacturers to support from the outset for example in a machining program what is needed in a CNC machining operation program that would be in an accelerated way. So students come in they take the national career readiness certificate as an entry they earn certifications by the National Institute for Metalworking Skills which is an industry group in the process and in a semester time frame then are ready to go into into a paid internship by manufacturers on the other side that then completes that circle. It's in a credit program so students can complete go to work. People can complete continue on in their education or they can do both because most manufacturers have a tuition reimbursement program to allow people to start to work and then continue on in that program that we call right skills now. The we know that these are working because first of all the manufacturers have been tied in closely have to support with internships are brought into that into that process from the very beginning and we know works on the part of students because classes that had been declining programs that had been being cut in areas where right skills now has been put in have been full classes additional tracks being put in and looking to expand on that in a stackable way to then include. OK what comes next after that first semester that does tie back into the industry certification. It really does come down to close attention to to the manufacturing community and I'd say one more thing in relation to the OECD report which had many solid examples. There's a recognition that there's a lot of this does have to be voluntary. We do have examples of a voluntary declaration having some impact but again we think it's got to come from the employers themselves. One is we did endorse particular certification pathways that that became a symbol of quality. The other is that we came out this year with what we call the M list which is right now 42 institutions and growing of institutions that do tie to industry certifications that are endorsed by the National Association of Manufacturers and being that bridge then that helps ensure that the programs truly are relevant and truly are making difference for students and for and for companies. So this is a question I'm going to put to all four of you. There's a kind of a theme running throughout the OECD report where they say kind of reflecting what Dr. Karnavali said that yeah the American system is it's very open and it's very accessible it's diverse it's flexible but all of their recommendations have the foundation is a need for quality to understand quality to measure quality to instantiate quality in the way that we decide what a certification a certificate is or isn't in the way that we regulate organizations that are accessing federal funding. It's hard to argue against quality in the abstract. So what are the specific barriers to making quality matter more in this conversation. Well I can I can say that we have to have it when we decided that we wanted to accredit certificate programs we looked for a national standard and we couldn't find one. So we ask one of our standard developing organizations since ANSI doesn't actually develop standards we accredit people to develop standards and eventually American national standards which are accepted most of the time by federal government we had ASTM International create a national accepted with input from trainers and educators as to what a certificate program would be that has an assessment at the end. So there is an American national standard for certificate programs but the probably one tenth of one percent now we've this program is only three years old we've accredited maybe 23 out of what 500,000 or whatever kind of thing. So it's just a drop in the bucket and as you say we haven't figured out how to have the scale ability of something like this. But I just wanted to point out that there is a standard that has been developed but we are not finding the educational community very accepting of it. It says it's too stringent and we go back and ask people and it's basic education really and yet they think it's too costly to try to meet in that regard. I'd like to say that I think there are two kinds of quality there's theoretical quality. We can say here's what we think a program ought to entail and then there's empirical quality. There's whether the people who have gotten a credential from this program are able to get and keep good paying jobs and in order to assess empirical quality we need better data and Tony has encountered this in the work they've been doing at the Georgetown Center because the lack of data is a real barrier to us understanding the return on investment in different kinds of credentials that are recognized by industry. I'll mention one thing about data I mentioned the federal efforts but I think it is critical for us to understand the return on investment on these kind of data for state longitudinal data systems to start collecting and using data on workforce outcomes of students who go through their educational programs and to collect whether students get certifications get licenses get certificates and follow those adults and young people over time to see how they are able to use those within the workforce. So I would encourage all of you to look at the work that is starting at the workforce data quality campaign to start including these kind of measures and state data systems and those of you who are in states to please be very aware that this is a critical way that we will be able to measure empirical quality of these kinds of things. I think I mean my favorite is the 48 hour inspection. I can see Marlene Seltzer and I who've been at this for 30 40 years now kicking down the door at some training program with our Westat badges or something demanding quality but the first thing we'd have to know is what do we mean by that. And one the employability kinds of metrics only one kind of quality if you want to go learn basket weaving. I mean we have to decide as a people we're going to pay for that. What are we what outcomes are we going to pay for in the public sector and which will be privately paid for. I have no problem with paying for a certificate of liberal learning from Nova which takes about a year has no economic return. But why would I deny somebody that and let them go to Georgetown and take Latin we have Latin majors and classics majors and so on. So you know there is a the transparency conversation is the doorway into the other conversations which are much harder. Ultimately I think they come down to what are we going to pay for. I think in the end we'll pay for a lot more than higher ed is is concerned that we won't pay for Shakespeare will only pay for HVAC. I don't think that's going to be what happens. Dr. Swift I'm curious just to elaborate a little bit on your what you were saying. So you came to this point of conflict with institutions you set standards that you thought were reasonable they thought they were unreasonable. What specifically were they objecting to. What do they think was too stringent or or. Well it it the the ASTM twenty six fifty nine I can I'll pick out three or four things that I think they don't. One it has a quality management system component attached to it where there has to be continuous quality improvement involved in where they have to ongoingly look at themselves which is not a usual phenomena in some of these certificate programs. Also it has the requirement of the oversight stakeholder and they're used to having like was mentioned in the previous panels of once a year meeting where this sort of thing requires ongoing dialogue and other types of input and then the the fourth one the third one is really the assessment. It requires a criterion referenced examination with a variety of stakeholders involved to determine the assessment tool and determine what constitutes pass fail.  It's really hurtful to the consumer to the public and to the employer because we may be passing people that shouldn't have passed and we may be failing people who should have passed because the instruments that we're using have no validity to them. And so when you talk about quality I do think naturally I'm from the American National Standards Institute. I think there should be standards of course. And we've also talked to this emerging what I think because there has been a lack of quality that this concept called badges which is sort of scaring me to death because it's just another one of those credentials you know but I think it's a symptom of what's not happening in education is the reason they've come. So just give me a badge that I earn and then that will show the employer what I can do in this regard. And we've got to get a handle on this because this is going to proliferate more and more in our country today. So I think those are the three elements we hear the most about the people that we have accredited so far interestingly enough as the federal government the FBI has been one of the Army Safety Center has been another and professional societies like the apartment complex with the maintenance people who has certificate programs that they show the employer not one community college has stepped forward and this is where most of the certificate programs come from. And once community college said to us if we follow that standard we would have the best program credit or non credit in the whole institution. Now that I did I thought that was kind of a sad statement actually because and I think it's this ongoing systematic thing and the assessment seems to be the areas that seems to be the most frustrated to the educational institutions. We have a little time for questions from the audience so please raise your hand and someone will bring the microphone. Yes. Right here. Hi my name is Michael I'm with the Education Writers Association. This is a question about whether certificates gel with what employers and industries want. So last year there was this new cycle of of certificates sort of being a high entry barrier to jobs. There is that core case in Utah about a hair braider who didn't have a certain certificate and so she couldn't have a job and then she thought to actually be a hair braider in Utah. So I'm wondering if there is this like tension between having a certificate and actually being able to work in a specified field and whether there's resolution whether that Utah case was something in the extreme or whether this is widespread. Well I can tell you a couple of ones and Brett can talk about manufacturing. We see certificates and being used sometimes in the areas of which it involves health and safety. And we have two states now that have passed legislation that says that in order to be a food handler in California and in Illinois you must have a certificate that is accredited under the ASTM 2659. So we do have two states who said oh there is a standard about certificates and food handlers is a safety health problem in this country and therefore we want a quality certificate so therefore they have mandated it through legislation. And so we do see these sort of mandated certificates where there is national security safety finance and health involved. I would certainly agree with that. I mean there's you see licensure requirements that typically are not going to be found within manufacturing and I can't speak to to hair braiding and kind of the what's there. I can say that frequently I do hear from manufacturers that say this would be great looking at for example a certified production technician that matches up to really what all manufacturers require is an onboarding and the kinds of safety and health kinds of things that they would require from their employees and say but or even a national career readiness certificate and what that means in terms of reading and writing and being able to use fractions on the job and say if I ask for that essentially the bare minimum I will get nobody. So therefore they ask for very little and that's really what sometimes they're getting. And so as a as a country we have to look at that and say OK we can do better. Now you're not good what you're not going to find is companies requiring an optional certification and with very rare exceptions because of human because of HR requirements and EEO and what that means. But we are working with companies to step up and say we will recognize that because we recognize that it matches up to the needs that we have. And I have examples of a company for example a large oil and gas company that their operations managers took a look at the certified production technician which is typically can be offered in a short time frame and said that that certification alone if we had people coming in with that would save us 30 days in recruitment time and 30 days of on the job training time for my company when people come in. And that's a real benefit that companies are starting to pick up on in areas where education institutions are stepping up and offering them. The only thing I would say about that is that this is a very old question in the United States and that is we as a nation have always been anti-credentialing. It's a frustration for educators but we're very anti-credential Lincoln was a lawyer. He read for the law didn't go to law school. We had a movement in the 19th century to eliminate all qualifications for jobs. So if you start to push the American worker especially immigrant workers too hard on credentialing you got issues. The other piece is we have a labor market that is essentially driven very much unlike European labor markets. That is if in Europe to use an example I'm not sure is right. If you're going to make a cake in Europe you've got to have a baker's certificate. In America if you can make a cake somebody will eat you can be a baker. So you know that ideal you'll always get pushed back because we do know that credentialing is a way that people set up barriers to entry. I can tell you I'm a PhD economist in Georgetown.  That is that's you know it's done in health care it's done and it's done all over the place. So there is a tension here are we so that when you do set up credentialing you want to make sure that the manufacturing credential doesn't keep a young man or woman with a strong back and good work ethic and decent skills because they didn't have the certificate from getting the job. And in the end that's where you'll get tension from supplies and places the FL CIO will push back on that. Not just the employers. Other questions. No one. Okay. Seeing none please join me in thanking our panel for a fantastic discussion. I think we're going to be.


Hey, this is Dan. Let's talk about TSM Taiwan semiconductor Is it a good time to buy or should we sell? In my February 15th video after I performed the fundamental analysis for TSM I came to a conclusion that the price would reach 160 by the end of 2021 at this point. I'm still sticking to my target. However, as you probably know TSM has been under some headwinds lately, especially since March. Why? Because there are two main events affecting the stock price of TSM. Number one is the recent drought in Taiwan and Number two is the recent surge of COVID cases in Taiwan. TSM has more than 90% of their manufacturing facilities on the island of Taiwan That's why these two factors have affected the prices of TSM, even though the actual operations of the company have not been affected because of the various countermeasures put in by the management. Nevertheless, there's still a very strong psychological factor affecting the stock price. If you are interested in what I'm saying so far, please click the like subscribe and notification button Which will encourage me to make similar videos in the future. It is also for the sake of the YouTube algorithm Thank you very much. Let's continue and get into more details Currently Taiwan is experiencing the worst drought in 56 years To make it worse for the world around 90% of the most advanced microchips and manufacture in Taiwan At this point the government of Taiwan has been stopping irrigation of farmland in order to continue to support the industries Especially the semiconductor industries, but the situation is getting tight. The water quality is extremely critical to chip production TSM already has been reusing 86.7% of its water, but apparently that's still not enough and recently The government of Taiwan built a desolidation plan just in the matter of 70 days to produce more fresh water If necessary, they will certainly be building more plants However, it is hopeful that Taiwan will get more rainfall before they have to build more desolidation plants a couple days ago There's some rainfall in Taiwan provided 12.1 million cubic meters of water But the major reservoirs still have very low water levels as you can see 2.6 percent capacity 2.1 1.6 percent and 1.1 percent. So the situation is still very urgent Now the second thing affecting TSM is the recent surge in COVID cases Because of the surge of COVID cases all schools and non-essential public places including entertainment venues have been shut down TSM factories, however are still open Let's look at the number of COVID cases in Taiwan as you can see When the rest of the world was suffering from outbreak of COVID Taiwan was pretty much protected because of very restrictive quarantine procedures But recently the virus seems to have broken through the defense of the island Or maybe the people have been complacent due to the success of the past year in the last couple of weeks They were seeing up to three four hundred new cases a day. Let's put that in the perspective So May 26th, Taiwan had 397 new COVID cases out of the total population of 23 million people So that's infection rate of 0.0017 percent In comparison in the US on the same day the US had about 23,000 new cases out of 328 million people the infection rate is 0.0072 percent So the infection rate in Taiwan is only about a quarter of the rate of the US And that's why it's not that serious But it's still an increase from their previous history And that's why it's been very alarming and it's been causing the Taiwan stock market to go down And of course TSM stock is sold both at Taiwan and also in the US And that's why it's really causing the stock price to go down Now as far as the vaccination process in Taiwan That's really lacking because of the near-zero case in the last year I guess the island became complacent and they did not aggressively secure COVID vaccine even if they secured contract They did not try to get the delivery to be in early 2021 and that's why they only administered 325,000 doses and that's only 1.4 percent of the population most of the doses required two injections Compared to the US 289 million doses have been given and that's equivalent to 88 percent of the population Of course in the US most of the vaccines require two doses And that's why the US coverage is about 50 percent of the population Who have received the second dose But Taiwan is really lagging as far as vaccination There's some hope because the health minister of Taiwan recently said that 2 million vaccine doses would arrive by the end of June and 10 million By the end of August Remember the population of the island is 23 million people So if they have 12 million doses at two doses each AstraZeneca these are mainly And that'll cover six million people That's a quarter of the people and that's not nearly enough But it's better than what they have now They've ordered a total of 20 million doses from AstraZeneca and Moderna That'll cover about half of the population In addition Taiwan has been developing their own vaccines And from what I heard they have two different vaccines being developed And they will probably be ready to deploy in July of this year Also as of today the news came out that the ruling party in Japan is urging the Japanese government To start shipping AstraZeneca vaccines to Taiwan as soon as possible I will be monitoring this development very closely Let's look at the charts This is the daily chart for the last year As we can see TSM has gone up 124 percent which is very impressive Although it's come down in the last three months TSM performance is definitely much better than QQQ or SPY which went up by about 40 percent If you're zooming for the last three months TSM had definitely underperformed Compared to the broad market it actually came down by about 10 percent Whereas QQQ went up by 3 percent and SPY went up by almost 8 percent Let's look closer at a daily period for the last six months We can see this downward trending channel Although in the last two three days the price seems to be breaking above the channel In the meanwhile the DMI indicator seems to be just about to turn bullish Whereas MACD already turned bullish yesterday Let's zoom into the four hour chart Again we see this upper boundary of a downward sloping line And there's a breakthrough here in the last couple of days We see the bullish buy signal from DMI and the bullish buy signal for MACD Although the RSI seems to be a little high That means the price is probably due for a little pullback in the next couple of days With the hourly chart we certainly see this upward trend in the last couple of weeks We do see the warning signal from RSI Although after going sideways or drifting down just a little bit Every time hitting the RSI overboard signal Then the price continued to go up after a few hours Hopefully that trend will continue Especially if they get more rain in Taiwan And also if the COVID cases are under control in the next few days Let's look at the support and resistance levels I see support at 114 which is the 20 day simple moving average That'll be a strong support point And I see historical support at 112 and 109 Which is the lower bollinger ban on the daily chart For resistant levels I see 119 Which is the upper bollinger ban on the daily chart That'll be a fairly strong resistance And then the historical resistance of 121, 124 And 128 Again I'd like to repeat that I'm staying with my target of $160 by the end of 2021 I still hold TSM shares at this point Although I did sell some shares After the price peak around late February If you want to see my detail fundamental analysis of TSM Please refer to my February 15 video The link for that video is provided below this video As far as my strategies I will be buying small batches of TSM in the next few days As the price continues to climb up I'll be nibbling Because I'm still bullish about TSM long term And I think at this point The COVID situation is starting to be under control As far as the drought Let's just hope that Taiwan get more rain And I will definitely continue to monitor The support and resistance levels And definitely once the COVID cases are under control And that there's more rain in Taiwan The TSM price will certainly shoot up Thank you for watching all the way to here At this point I'd like to encourage you to subscribe To my Twitter account Which is Dan Market Space L Because I will be entering any text updates To my YouTube videos In my Twitter account You can also post any comments Questions or suggestions To my Twitter account And I'd like to remind you that I'm not a financial advisor I share my stock trading strategies For education purposes only You should make your own decision With regard to buying or selling stocks And you should probably consult with your financial advisors Before you do so This wraps up my video for now I will chat with you again in the next few days In the meanwhile I'd like to wish you the very best of luck With your financial investments


Silent letters from A to Z from EspressoEnglish.net The English language has a lot of silent letters that make the pronunciation of words different from their written forms.   It means a social mistake or error in etiquette. Silent Y, No Words, Silent Z, Rendez-vous. This is another word from French, meaning a casual meeting or meeting place. Visit www.EspressoEnglish.net for more English tips. If you like this video, please share.


Alright, let's see if that should work good, yeah, alright, and there we go, I'm just gonna, I'm just gonna get my coffee ready guys, hope everyone's doing alright, just gonna get my coffee here and we'll get right to it, Joker how you doing buddy, alright just gonna get my coffee, second cup so I should be pretty good, there we go, okay so hope everyone's doing well, I guess I guess this makes it about 14 15 days for me, I don't know for you guys but for myself I certainly knew, you know when South by Southwest got canceled, I knew there was an issue and then a couple of the other festivals got canceled, Coachella, all that stuff, but I knew that there was going to be a lockdown when they canceled, Armani, how you doing buddy, I knew that they were going to shut down stuff when basketball canceled, you know why, because America loves its sports so much and sports are such a major part of American life that there is, there is, if you if they're willing to shut that down at the cost of the bookies and the the American underground mafioso industry without recourse, if they're willing to shut that down, excuse me guys, if they're willing to shut that down then, oh yeah it's crazy, yeah exactly how many sectors are affected, sorry guys I got a little gunk on my glasses here, if you're willing to shut down sports then you're willing to go all the way and that's when I knew things were really bad, Brad how you doing buddy, except Johnny missed on having cell phones, yeah it was going to be a bad idea buddy, I swear, so so that was when I started to take heat of something was going down and then it was the Joe Rogan episode with Nicholas Kristakis which was two weeks ago, which that certainly cleared up everything for me, that there was a major problem and I remember Nicholas was saying what was going to happen and I was like thinking to myself that is surreal, that can't be right, that can't be what was going on and if that is what's going on, we're gonna be in trouble, so I've been locked up since then, that's basically a little over two weeks, but to be honest with you AJ and I were so busy with work during that period, I mean I was basically living a Monk lifestyle anyway, we were trying to crank out some a transition to move fully more so into virtual with our programs because we were wrapping them up at the end of the summer and for those of you who are still want a piece of that you can hit us up as soon as we're back up and running we're gonna be finishing those out, but that's so I you know to be honest I was already working from home most of my time which brings us to our topic today, I'll be giving you guys some tips at home but first I just wanted to chat with you all about some some two interesting stories here in Hollywood that I had to contend with that you know during this period it's it's it is definitely Hollywood it was two Hollywood stories that that I thought you all would appreciate and it put me in a position because I didn't know what to do about it you know with everything that's going on I I don't want to get involved with other people I'm told to stay home but I also have I'm also a human being I also have a inclination and a desire to want to help people and and and to do our part they want us to hold back not that I am signaling what a moral do-gooder I am I'm a flawed human being like everybody else so but I will give you these these two stories also my glasses are a little funky today probably who they just cleaned them so I don't normally wear glasses either Lisa's on the other and one of our art of charm groups there and she knows that but it's funny it's like what am I gonna why am I gonna go through contact lenses if I'm not out being social that's it's a there it's a waste so however you know I kind of when it came to the glasses I kind of dig what I picked out I picked them out because I thought they were sturdy and they made me look a little bit studious as studious as I could possibly look with my rock-and-roll cut and do but I like it what do you guys think they're all right do I look studious or do I look completely insane so to Hollywood story so two things that happen while I've been on lockdown that was it all looks good on you well thank you Lisa I appreciate that I can always expect I can always count on you for a wonderful compliment insanely studious thank you I will I will take that so if you guys follow me on Twitter and that is I have the art of charm Twitter which is the one I use which probably most of you guys in Periscope know me from I also have a private account which is AOC Johnny which I'm I'm able to be a little bit more frank a little bit more candid there because I don't have to speak through the mouth of AOC and there's some things that that I just don't feel are appropriate from that account so you could follow me AOC Johnny I appreciate that and anyway if you would follow me over there you had you would had seen I posted a picture of a few weeks a few days ago this was last week I think this was Friday so I live in a little studio apartment on Hollywood Boulevard it's a it's it's I guess spacious for a little Hollywood apartment but as you can see this is my this is my kitchen that's the door out and then I have a nice I have a little living room bed area anyway I'm very minimalistic like that it's just the way I am I have always been that way anyway so I and I have a little makeshift desk that I have put by the window so I can look out into the common area of my building in that common area it has a pool it has a hot tub and it has a seating area anyway as our building is on lockdown as well we're not allowed in any of those parts and and I'm sitting there and I'm working away and I I hear the gate crash hold on guys are ambulance or whistles all right sorry about that so I'm at my desk I'm working and I hear the gate crash and I I look outside and I see this random guy with a backpack bopping around the the courtyard now people have been walking through it but you're not allowed to hang out congee gate you're not allowed to be out there anyway he goes over to the pool when he sticks his hand in it and test the water and gives a little nod and then he walks over to the hot tub and strips down and he has swim trunks underneath his pants so this was obviously planned and so he takes off his pants he's in his swim trunks he sets his backpack down and he goes for a swim and I'm thinking what the hell's this guy doing and he gets out of the pool and walks over to the hot tub and he sits down in and he opens up his backpack he pulls out several things of sushi a bottle of wine and and and and and and and some soap and detergent and starts washing up in the hot tub now this was a clean shaven person he planned to come he had swim trunks on this sushi was bought directly from the store as was the bottle of wine and he starts washing up in the hot tub so I'm watching this and I'm mind blown because we have a oh I should you know what I should have put my light on so I look a little better too and I'm watching this and I'm just amazed at this guy and I'm waiting for security to roll up and interrogate what this guy's doing and I go back to work and eventually I hear some commotion outside and I realize that's that's them so security and they're they're asking him sir do you live here oh yeah I live here and they're like what building and he just starts pointing to all the buildings and they're and he's like I work here I work for some people and he doesn't really give a real answer and they ask him they're like sir this area is off limits due to the virus what are you doing and he answers them hanging poolside having some sushi and I'm I was amazed and they're like you can't do that here this area is is prohibited and everyone must stay in the building sir what building do you work in well I work for some people over here and some people over there like sir now they're like how did you get in and he's like I walked in I got on the elevator so through that it was obvious that he has been here before he felt comfortable enough to walk into the pool area he had swim trunks underneath his jeans so it was amazing so that's Hollywood story number one oh and if you want to see the picture of this if you go over to my private Twitter account AOC Johnny you will see the picture of him in the hot tub with the sushi and the wine it's ridiculous and so yesterday it was it was sunny out for the first day in a long time and what's extremely odd about what is going on is it had been raining for much of the time we've been stuck in our on our lockdown and so with that it's been cloudy and and it's also been cold like low 60s and so I haven't felt compelled to to leave and but yesterday the sun came out and I really wanted to get outside I really wanted to be in the sun I really wanted to fill the sun on my face so I walked out to the to the area where the elevators are and but there's a balcony there and I looked out in the street just to make sure it was it was okay what was going on out there and I had seen some other people with some groceries a couple people going to the Shake Shack that is in the retail space of my building and looked okay looked pretty normal and then I looked down the street and there was a guy in just jeans just jeans no t-shirt no shirt jeans and that's it he's just wearing jeans no tennis shoes no socks just jeans and he was a clean shaven Asian guy which was odd if he's going to be homeless he's going to be dirty and he's good well stereotypical in general what what the homeless folk of Los Angeles look like are the usual tie to rags and beard and facial and and all that stuff and I'm watching him and he he is moving as if he had drank a few bottles of maker's mind I mean his guy is lit up and he's staggering on the sidewalk bouncing off the buildings now I saw him approach some people but he didn't say anything he just kind of slurred into them and so I'm not going downstairs with this going on so I decide that I'm just going to watch to see what is going on and I'm looking over the thing and he's just back and forth the whole way down Hollywood Boulevard I finally let him get far enough down that I go downstairs I look out the door I see him very far down the Boulevard now and where I live I live on a Hollywood and Vine area so it's relatively flat I could see pretty far away and not to mention there's not really anyone on the streets so I can see this guy and he sticks out right he's no clothes on and so I can I can see him down there and I'm certainly worried about the guy but I'm also not worried enough where I want to get involved and get myself in trouble and there was a truck going down a hauling truck and he went off to the sidewalk right in front of the truck the truck hits the brakes hits the horn and this guy swars the other way back out of the way the truck goes and then he swars back in the road across the street into the W hotel for your area and then right next to that is the red line on Hollywood Boulevard where he kind of just fell down the stairs into it was cocky bitch hello to you as well that is the Twitter so anyway that's when I decided it I'm not willing to hang outside here in Hollywood and for the most part I really would love to go jogging I haven't been jogging in three weeks now I jog at least once week as for my cardio with all the other exercise I've been doing I've been relegated to exercising you look like Austin Powers that wouldn't be the first time that I've heard that and that's the it's certainly I picked off these glasses for a reason but what I saw yesterday and the saw last Friday was enough for me not to want to go jogging I'll stay in my house until it was over anyway so now I promise you guys some tips for working at home I have another appointment yes so I'll go ahead and get to that guys so number one you're going to have to treat the day as if you're going into work you cannot make exceptions because you have all day sitting at home to do things if you look at it in that manner you're not going to get anything done and you're going to end up putting things off where's the blow I wouldn't know it's certainly not here and so number one get your schedule together get up for myself I work out in the morning I usually put on Scott Adams because he can be quite whimsical and interesting takes on what's going on that you tends to cheer me up while I'm working out and then point I get some coffee going I take a shower and I get out and then I arrange my day into three sections and this is something that I got from Kevin Cruz's book great leaders have no rules this is a rad tip and actually Kevin's gonna be on the show next week we just talked to him yesterday and he arranges his day in the three parts creative collaboration and connection and so for myself I tend to do the the stuff where I really need my brain power the brain power that I have I use that first thing in the morning so creating writing anything that I have to do that I need as much power and and cognition as possible those things are the things that I do first in the day and then I arrange my coaching calls my meetings with AJ my business partner and anyone else as collaborations I do that after lunch and then lastly the moments where I'm connecting with friends family needing to reach out talk to people I do those things in the evening this allows me to focus on the things that I I need to be focusing on without distraction and I also know that there is a time allotted for the other things that I need to do in their appropriate time this allows me to give all of my attention to the tasks that I need to be doing so and then you can get slightly more granular with it by scheduling the things that you need to do in certain time slots reason being if you just say well as long as I get this done by the end of the day I'll be good what tends to happen is we tend to push things off and then because we've pushed things off to the end of the day of course we don't have much cognition we're already working on decision fatigue so we it's easy for us then to push things off our plate for the next day and because of that things are not getting done so I arrange my day in the three parts the three C's creative collaboration connection and then I actually schedule the times when I'm going to be doing those things so that I can give my complete focus to the tasks at hand and that certainly helps me with that I I after getting a shower I get dressed up I put on some clothes that I would be that are casual they're comfortable but that that are telling me mentally and emotionally that there is work to be done that I'm clocking in now for those of you who are living with family I there I'm by myself and there's pluses and minuses to that trust me I would love to have somebody to talk to perhaps that's why I'm going live with you all right here but tend to block out with that creative time the times you need most cognition let your family members know that this is the time during the day that you're need to be locked in that you're going into to do work that you need to be doing deep work deep thought and this will allow you to focus the attention that you need to those tasks you can tell your family you can tell your children to that afterwards that you're going to be able to have the time to devote to them to be with them and you can even schedule that time you don't have to let them know that you're doing that that helps you know when you're going to be doing those tasks also for myself I don't know about you guys but right now I'm going live in two places one of our other charm groups on Facebook the challenge if you guys would like to be a part of that I have to do is go to yard of charm.com slash challenge it's free and so and I'm also going live in periscope so I have two devices up and most of the day I usually have several devices because of all the work that I'm doing but I try to collect ideas that I want to flesh out on my warboard I have a dryer raceboard where I can put ideas up so that I'm just going to see them all day and because I see them on there all day it's a trigger to remind me that I that these are ideas that I need to flesh out no those ideas that I'm fleshing out they either go into content for our products they might go to content for the lives that I do or they might go to content for the podcast that we do for the art of charm so so that helps me collect ideas and then I have an opportunity to flesh them out when I have more of an opportunity and of course I if I see them up there and they haven't been fleshed out yet or I haven't spent that much time I can either do that during that creative time or I can schedule them for the next day for a certain time when I'm going to devote more cognition to that fleshing out of those ideas so those things certainly help me so there's about five tips for you guys to be able to manage working from home because let's face it for those of us who have the opportunity home we want to use this time wisely for our sanity for our emotional retainment mental retainment physical retainment and and come out of this hopefully as good as if not better than than going in I know plenty of people who have taken this opportunity to get some much needed work done and that's great on them if you're living with other people having an opportunity to dive into your work will give you a break and allow you to stretch the rubber band into another area into another way so that it doesn't get pulled apart and and that's one of the important things that we're going to have to take in consideration if you're around family you don't have much space it can be quite taxing so I have an interview to do for the grow podcast so I'm going to go if you guys have any questions comments if you have any tips that you would like to throw you can put them in the comments I would like to hear what those are if you're interested in any of the AOC stuff our private groups our coaching any of that you can go to our website or check out the art charm accelerator it is for you guys in the in the challenge group the accelerator address is above you for you guys on Twitter if you go to our Twitter page you'll see the accelerator there and I will talk to you guys probably tomorrow oh cheers alright guys have a good one