she said that she um that the trees are pretty old and there was a 50 to 60 chance that they could successfully be transplanted um it would the cost would be pretty high because they're old she um has had some complaints about the um condition of the trees in the past um so it is possibly relocated it would be fairly i'm not thinking of that i'm thinking of building them into any structure is that possible to take some of the magnolias the heritage tree magnolias and actually you know do something i don't think it's unique i think yeah i mean we could definitely look at that my i i need to we need to look at where they're laid out on the site um specifically if there are any um particularly that could be built into some of the open space elements i'm not really sure until we actually look at the layout of them on the on the site okay thank you um we've got quite a few letters on the uh the nelson-neigard issue i was wondering if somebody from public works could address that issue the the misuse of someone's uh that we hired statistics from 80 percent to 90 percent or 30 percent uh deficiency i guess or some yeah we might have a multi-team response on that one economic development actually commissioned the study and i i think there is some uh misunderstanding on the purpose of the study which um we did start that study over two years ago prior to any sort of council discussion on the mixed use project or the parking structure the purpose of that study and the title of the study that's in progress is called the economics of parking and the goals for that study particularly were to look at the long-term future vitality of downtown and looking at how we are um charging for parking what our parking policies are particularly around parking deficiency fees because a lot of our businesses were um reaching out to us with some confusion on how they pay for parking and some of the the weights that they had for parking permits and just not understanding how we're providing our parking specifically downtown so the purpose of the study was really to look at our existing parking structure um sorry our existing parking strategy structure of prices in the downtown um our various policies that make recommendations for improvement um specifically on the study uh we have it's in progress we're hoping to be able to have it for for this evening they're still working on draft comments um one of the challenges we've had and i'll just tell you the reason why it's one of the reasons it's taken so long is we're actually on our third team with nelson nygard within the project we haven't um had direct issues with with the consultant they've been in a situation where they've for various reasons certain team members have left the company and so we've had to regroup and we're now on our third team um and we're having to adjust some of the study as we go but the final elements that will be coming out um for the actual strategic parking plan it is around parking pricing and strategies so specifically the deliverables is recommending an on and off street pricing structure um and a brief summary of on and off street pricing levels in peer communities we really felt it was important to benchmark to neighboring communities um what they're charging for parking to really compare to how we're charging for parking with the understanding that a lot of the businesses were were feeling that they were subsidizing and were in fact subsidizing parking so moving the cost of parking to the actual parking user is one of the goals and recommendations of the parking study and um the contract was nine nine thousand nine hundred ninety seven dollars and have we used that all up um no we still have a little bit of that contract amount to finish the report and is that just under what before it comes to the council we usually get it if it's over a hundred thousand it's under a hundred thousand i'm saying if it's over a hundred thousand we get it you would have had it yes we would have come to you um prior to um issuing that uh so there was a question about what was the outcome of of the nelson-neigard study i mean you went through but are we going to continue with them or are you are they still working on it they're working on they're working on the the comments from staff on the executive summary of the pricing structure right now and um the seventy five thousand per space sound right or is that uh it's not it's not just to clarify it is not analyzing a parking structure it's not contemplating uh whether or not there's a need for a parking structure that is not the scope of the study it is really looking at pricing structure downtown that i need to clarify the parking um actually rates structure of how we charge for parking in the downtown i meant seventy five thousand per space to build that's that's what i'm saying that's not specifically in in the study it's looking at how individuals who pay for parking in the downtown how they're paying for it and making recommendations and comparisons to benchmark cities does the ballpark price of twenty seven million for the library now and forty one million sound right to come out with six is a sixty eight million dollar project um would be yeah i would probably bring in um i recommend actually actually jimber from uh public works to come in and talk specifically about the the parking structure what we have so far is because because we have presented you just with a concept plan what we have is a rough order of magnitude costs and at least on the parking side we had a range of costs it was from 33 to 37 million through and those were 2018 numbers um for the parking piece the library i believe is 27 and then there's a third component that is neither library nor um parking that is out front along cedar street that is some other use uh and i'm hearing from council that that's going to be a housing use and the sixty eight million then ballpark figure is it more or less than that uh that would be on the high end and what what can you put that in perspective with other projects that we've done around the city i'm just thinking the sewage treatment plan or the police station or i cannot we haven't it's the largest public works project we've ever taken on it's not the largest in size certainly but um in cost well if we build this yes it'll be it'll be probably the largest in cost construction prices have risen considerably in the last few years yeah that's another consideration that is that construction costs are really high and a number of people have pointed out the how can it be so expensive particularly for the library at a thousand dollars per square foot and that is a very accurate estimate in fact the bids that came in for the capitol branch which just came in a month ago came in at that level so we actually have real data showing that as that is actually the cost of new construction um also it's important to note that that includes everything it's not just the building it includes the everything that goes within the building as well so that's why it's that high because everything has to be replaced the furnishings the outfitting the technology and all that as well so councilmember crown do you have many more questions professor adam miller ball um was here tonight and uh he says that we haven't done any risk analysis i was wondering have we done risk analysis uh what he was referring to as far as uh what if ret parking revenue craters and i didn't know he was going to be here tonight but um he is a colleague and i've known him for many years and he has been working on transportation all over the country and in europe as well we have not done risk analysis on uh this project uh when we presented the rate strategy in detail on june 19th we did present a very conservative uh careful approach to our pricing structure um we had that study verified by a third party economic planning services analyst um and we included um a number of uh conservative factors uh we did include the we did include the um excuse me the rates elasticity so some loss in demand uh due to a price increase but mostly what we've seen here are um in in santa cruz for local conditions what we've seen is even though prices have gone up occupancy has also gone up that sort of flies in the face of price elasticity we approached the model uh in a different way in that we did we took the demand and supply model and then did a post processing where we looked at what the size of the shortage would be and how we would maybe attack that with tdm and a new supply project and the 700 waiting list somebody mentioned was predicated on the fact that they're all in line for cheap passes if it goes up to 75 dollars would that waiting list be diminished greatly it it may but uh that's not what we're seeing here in santa cruz and i would just remind you that the 700 is that's individuals waiting for permits it's actually those some of those represent business owners who want the total numbers 1400 uh permits requested currently so there's quite a bit of pent up demand and that went into our rate strategy we heard a lot about um environment tonight from several people and also correspondence i'm wondering um why this would be the kind of project you would pass by the climate action task force or at least by uh tiffani wise west who's the climate action coordinator um typically the the climate action coordinator and the climate action committee doesn't review individual projects you know they focus on their scope is to focus on the climate action plan and the implementation of the plan and the various elements to it and so that is the scope of the work now you know with respect to looking at individual projects we do have our planning folks who look at you know green building and all that sort of thing in this particular case the project hasn't been referring to the level where we have you know a project where we can evaluate you know the the uh the what kind of level of of lead certification for example uh it's going to achieve all i i think the desires to have it be as high as as possible and to include we have included i think in the estimates that it would have solar and lead certification and that sort of thing um but with respect to uh tiffani's role you know she typically doesn't review individual cap projects last question how do we explain to the public when the person said two million dollars for the san jose county bank to to um renovate it and we're at 27 million we have and we can't seem to um have enough money to renovate the library um is that just too much of an apples to oranges kind of comparison or what what's going on there because it does you know in a lot of people's minds it's like whoa 27 million dollars councilmember it's a good question and i'm not an engineer so what i've done is talked to other area architects focusing on libraries and i've had two architectural firms say that is what they're seeing in the um over a thousand dollars a square foot is what they're seeing in the library economy in the bay area most recently the half moon library which i hear is fantastic just opened two weeks ago it was 24 million for 22 000 square feet both the live oak or i'm sorry the um capitola and the felton libraries have just gone out for bid and both came in over a thousand dollars a square foot so what we're seeing is not inconsistent with what the um experts that we hired told us thank you mayor hey thank you i do have comments too yeah definitely we'll circle back councilmember chase i think so a couple of my questions were asked by councilmember crone um one of them is no i appreciate that we're on the same page um one question is what's an update on the eco pass and where we are with um metro on that thank you hi clear fleece late transportation planner so the eco pass model is a staff proposal from metro of sorry i'm a little taller um was a staff level proposal from metro staff on what could be the parameters of a transit pass program for downtown looking at both our downtown employee makeup and the survey that we put out two downtown employees seeing how we could meet them where they were to help them choose other modes than driving alone to alleviate our parking shortage transit was uh desired six of nine near the bottom of the list things that came higher than that were uh biking carpooling other options one of the things that we looked at is how can we provide a transit option that may be any capacity may be a different transit option for downtown employees and running the numbers what we found is that even if we doubled the number of employees who are using transit currently we would be able to pay a lower price than the staff level proposal from metro at the same time as we would be able to invest in other alternatives so one of the things we're going to look at going forward pending action tonight and the creation of an annual TDM budget is how do we spend those dollars most efficiently to meet our downtown employees where they are if it works for you to bike i want to help you find a way to bike downtown if it works for you to carpool i want to help find a way to make that happen and if transit's an option for you i want to get you a transit pass so an eco pass is one way to achieve some TDM goals but it's certainly not the only way i have a couple follow-ups for you so i'll stay here um so one of the things it's it's more of a uh just kind of reaffirming i think what we've talked about recently when we talked about the jump bikes which is that is now something that we just got online that we didn't have before that certainly is going to be factored into our TDM because would you repeat what is one of my favorite statistics about um that was really illuminating to me about the number of folks who actually transit doesn't make sense for downtown i'm one of those people where i live and both of my jobs are um within distance where it doesn't make sense actually for me to get on transit but it does to either walk or bike or in some cases use my car yeah so one of the things that we look at is as long as parking is the fastest easiest and cheapest way for people to get around they're going to continue to park but if we make other options faster easier and cheaper that's a way that people will consider changing their mode typically what we think of is if you live within a mile walking is going to be the fastest way for you to get to downtown if you live within three miles biking and in particular using jump bikes or another e-bike is going to be the fastest way to get around and as you get further out than that transit becomes an option the caveat to that is that we know that one in two employees downtown work in retail or restaurant in the service industry generally these are jobs that don't have the typical eight to five monday through friday schedules that we see with the upper level office workers having schedules that vary that way in particular if they start before seven or eight a.m when transit really begins or end after eight p.m when transit frequency really ends transit's not an option for those people it's not something that we can say we'll give you a bus pass and you'll be able to get home to your home in core lettuce or bonny dune or felton where you can afford to live so making sure that we provide a real range of options for people downtown to maintain the vibrancy and the diversity of our downtown is important and then one of the other follow-up questions this one's not for you thanks okay i'll sit down i don't know who it's for exactly but um i wanted to confirm to one of the things that was driving up the cost also of remodeling the current location was also being able to maintain the branch somewhere else in during that time which i think wasn't explicitly said but i just wanted to clarify that that's a huge part of the costs in that yes yes that's correct because uh the the idea would be that we would try to have a smaller but temporary branch that would still operate and so that was in the several million dollars that just to keep that operating while the library would be renovated if that was the option thank you any questions from this side yeah i have a i have a couple um i was just curious i noticed through the delac process that they considered four options how did you get to the point of choosing those four options um to study uh councilmember it's a very good question part of what we did is tried to write uh the rfp in the contract with some sense of scope rather than because it's costly to to do endless options so we took the proposal that was um um uh discussed at the december 2016 meeting which was a mixed use we took remodel because it was the obvious choice um build new and to be honest we added the fourth option as we got deeper into the process and people said well what can you get for 23 million thank you and then my um last question is i noticed um folks from the dta and dmc got up and said that they supported this project did you um did other organizations communicate their support as well i'm just curious other people who wrote in and said they supported this so from the library specific side we had the library advisory committee uh support we had the geological society of santa cruz which has about 150 members and we have a genealogy sorry center in the library itself and then the friends of the library and in addition to that um you heard from a lot of the groups here today um housing action now also sent a letter of support with some conditions in there as well um so you heard from the business council santa cruz works santa cruz chamber of commerce the dta and the downtown management corporation are also organizations that spoke here tonight in the north northern california construction union yeah oh right thank you great thank you remember brown yeah just to follow up on uh council member neroyan's question about the origins of the the four options how they came about um you know i one of the things that i and i followed this pretty closely one of the things i haven't seen uh were concept you know design drawings of any sort for any of the other options aside from option b which is the staff recommendation coming before us tonight the delac recommendation and just right now while i can while i have a moment while i have the floor i really do want to thank everybody who's participated in this process and you know really have a lot of respect for all the work you've done and um your your commitment to making this project happen so i'm just wondering like you know it would be nice to see what it might look like to have some of those other options um council member brown the delac process did not actually create any drawings of any of the four those drawings have come after the fact we've been done with our work since january of um this year and so those drawings have happened after the fact i saw a few in the city manager's office prior to that just i think what you're referring to is so there's the the the facility's master plan she's referring to the facility's master plan so i was going to add the facility's master plan uh that's where some of the options were explored as part of that as well so as part of the facility's master plan they actually looked at uh renovating they looked at a new building and they did do some rough sketches of you know how it might be laid out um also they looked at uh uh re uh a major renovation of this building where they looked at the changing the entrance it was a 2013 document that it put a maintain gain and attain levels of right they even looked at a mixed use project back then as well as part of the pacific station project so all of these options were explored as part of the master facilities process which took place uh that that was adopted and presented to council in january of 2013 i have a quick question and i i apologize claire it was for you before when you're already up here so i'm sorry to bring you back up i um i was just curious it sounds to me i just want to confirm based on the previous question that we are pretty much going as as sort of full suite ahead in terms of our TDM options and or is there anything more you think we can do oh there's always more yeah we've been investing in TDM for decades um it's what's led us to have a drive alone rate 20 below the national average and the second highest rate of bike commuting in the state of california um but there is always more we can do and that's why we're asking with the pricing strategy proposed to you tonight to create an annual reliable TDM funding source that we can use to continue to incentivize mudshift um i'll say um i'll start with a comment first and that is you know i was on the library board in 2013 when we went through this entire process for the facilities plan and i tell you i've um seen firsthand the the situation that are branched downtown and there were times when it was closed because of um facility failures and um so i think firsthand if you talk with those that worked there um they've reported the problems they've experienced and as a parent myself when our family goes to the library um i look at what we have in terms of resources up on the second floor for parents and i think boy we are woefully inadequate in terms of what we're doing for kids and young families in this in this community in terms of libraries and i think that's kind of a missing piece in terms of when we talk about the library itself and something i'm very interested in making sure we correct um the one thing i wanted to talk about really is kind of this idea of what is our vision for the downtown you know we're talking about this in the context of a joint multi-use project with a library in a parking garage but i think it's part of a piece of a larger puzzle and i would like maybe staff to comment about what this means to look at how we create more opportunities for housing downtown create more opportunities for economic development and create more opportunities to create a more active kind of livable downtown if you could kind of comment on that i'd appreciate it um you know specifically in the recommendations let's go back go back to the the last two part of these are in response to some of the community feedback that we'd heard both through the outreach process and sort of early on as we started planning is the questions arising of what what is the vision for downtown and we have a series we showed part of it in one of the previous presentations in june of some of the guiding documents that have led us to this point um and as we were talking about the overall process in downtown it's looking at what opportunities we have and specifically the first part of that is looking at the city-owned properties downtown for a long time and certainly with the council two-year strategic plan goals of creating housing in the downtown we had already been focused on what these opportunities are and recognizing that for long-term vibrancy in the downtown we need to have a healthy balance of businesses and residents and frankly some of the challenges we have um with retail and with the shrinking tax basis related to retail with online sales is it's it's even more important going forward that we're looking at what are ways that we can support our existing retail in the downtown long-term to survive one of those opportunities as we're looking at the long-term vision is to make sure that we are supporting those businesses that we are actually bringing people who live downtown who can potentially shop downtown and will be downtown to support those those businesses for a long time into the future that's a really important part of our vision downtown it is a balance of the residents it's a balance of the retail both the restaurants the um actually commercial retail we have and the office users downtown all of those components together make a healthy downtown and that part of our overall vision is to making sure we're getting that balance right as we plan for the future and part of that does include you know as we've talked a lot of tonight and and over the last 18 months housing but a part of it also includes parking and making sure that we're providing parking for those who need it as well as looking at you know alternative modes as claire has has has said so eloquently this evening that we're balancing those needs in our downtown and and that's something we've been focused on for a really long time as far as visioning going forward there's a number of studies that sort of led us to this point that we didn't include in tonight's presentation some of that starting back into 2011 would be the bob gibbs retail and market study in the downtown and a number of recommendations that he made support moving forward with a vision including actually an investment in a library he was so excited when he heard about this project but he says when he looks at cities across the country it's libraries and the fact that as a community we're looking to reinvest 20 plus million in a downtown library says those are what save downtown's revisioning libraries as community spaces as a really important part of our community vision going forward I mean I think that for those that were around post earthquake in 89 when there was a vision Santa Cruz process there was a really robust kind of look at what we were going to build out in our downtown and how that looked and I'm curious like how you know deep are you to get into this to make sure that one as Peggy Dolgen has said you know we build a beautiful structure it's not just another parking garage because this is a really important part of our downtown not just for the stake of the library but for what we want to see in the future right down to make it more of a destination yeah so two things to that the first is that the 2017 downtown plan amendments are actually amendments to that original visioning downtown visioning plan so that's taking that vision forward into 2018 another element of that as we go forward is both these two recommendations that are before you this evening similar to the pacific station project where some of you were involved in that in that project in that process we had group four who had specifically had as part of their team they had a facilitator who was a professional and community engagement and they sort of led us through a staff along with the community on various various methods various techniques different approaches to making sure that they got active engaged community participation and part of that process that was a fascinating for us sort of the vernacular around how you describe architecture in the way things make you feel that I felt was such an engaging process for those that participated in it and so we came forward two years ago to show ideas they had boards based on a different sort of styles of what the buildings could look like that's going to be a real part an important part of this process to flip for a second to the visioning side I think that's where an urban land planning organization like urban land institute or spur you know based in the bay area comes in is is this is what they do they go into communities they look at sort of the they do sort of a SWAT analysis of your strength you know and opportunities weaknesses and threats and they put that together and they look at individual visions they look at what's missing they look at sort of the overall community context and then they come forward with ideas and they have again have a series of community engagement as far as that process and then they make recommendations on what you can do and as part of that analysis it includes a cost analysis considerations for council and we would bring that back to you for further consideration and just a couple more you know I really appreciated the fact it was Candace Zach and Kendra downtown business owners spoke up about like the importance of creating more vibrant downtown and especially for young parents making sure that we create family friendly spaces downtown what are we doing to make sure that that outreach happens with the downtown business owners and also future you know property owners that are down there so that we're making something that actually is really well integrated into the area not just moving over some of the issues that are going on right now in the present space to a new location and instead of creating something that's going to be a much more kind of vibrant vibrant facility well I would say as part of our outreach as I mentioned one of our goals was really to engage with new new groups and demographics and we really worked hard to connect with the downtown business owners and we had lots of one-on-one meetings with DTA members and people who work downtown and own businesses downtown and I think that we formed some relationships that'll help us to engage those those same people in a design process I think we've seen that there's a really engaged community on this topic and I think we would hope to activate them to be part of a design process to ensure that we are seeing the vision through and this is the last point was that when we had discussions about this before I know there were different discussions about if there was a mixed use garage where the library facility would be and I am personally I would support something that's even higher like where you have a facility that has you know space and view and light from you know the top if that's where it's going to go as well as the opportunity to have even some landscaping or other sorts of treatments on there I'm wondering if they're funding funding that could happen through like when there is development there's park funds quimby funds that could help support some sort of outdoor space you know on the top floor to make it more of a you know public space for all the housing that is anticipated downtown is that possible yes we can certainly look at that and obviously the design process will help to kind of guide that there are examples of facilities that have for example the west hollywood library has tennis courts on the top of the parking structure I would just like to quickly that just to go back to the project cost I think an some of the opportunity for that will also come in in that bottom category when we have funding source for the housing and other mixed uses we're looking at opportunities to bring in both private investment and also other federal and state funding sources another very encouraging aspect of the project that we're analyzing right now with some financial sort of technical experts is that possibility of doing an opportunity zone project at this site with the mix of uses including affordable housing library it's it's it's a project that's perfectly suited for opportunity zone financing so we're looking at that we're looking at leveraging what that will do to the project is bring in quite a bit of funding that otherwise wouldn't be available to reinvest and create some of those elements that make a very livable project right can you say what opportunity zone funding is for people who don't know yeah it's it's a it's a federal program and we created we created opportunity zones it's it's a federal program that is being instituted by the state and initially they created a zone that allows for tax you know basically equity investors to get tax credits for investing in a project and as a result we get the benefit of that investment over a over a period so typically you do a public private partnership with an equity investor that creates funding for the project that wouldn't otherwise be there it's a more user-friendly version of the new market tax credits that some of you have heard us talk about in the past that becomes very very complicated it's a it's a little more straightforward program we have two opportunity zones in Santa Cruz that were recently created initially one was created a more creek because it's based on census tract for reinvestment we were successfully able to move that so now we have one in the downtown and our mission street corridor and just slightly going into the beginning of of the east side so we're pretty excited for the opportunity and starting to have conversations about which areas and which projects might be good good fits for opportunity zones and our initial feedback that we have on this one is this this this project looks very good all right councilmember crown ready for uh comments now or um well that's what we've been doing to keep it thank you um i was wondering if you could put up that photo of the library because i'm i was struck by this i think our city manager showed it to me when i was in his office one day what uh that space looked like um hopefully it'll come up it was uh it's the Carnegie library that used to sit on that site i think i think this is the picture but i don't know if it's uh i hope it's the right one um and i'm just thinking i i keep thinking about the 21st century library uh and what what a loss that was of the uh the Carnegie library um could you also put it down here for the i don't see it oh uh oh um the upper does that that looks like the right one right is that martini's that it and um that's top right these were a few a few other pictures like i took the the the parking garage one was recently in the uh uh in the sentinel i believe and um i i was struck by the picture also of uh of the downtown library in that view and i don't know if how much it was discussed with the delac i might have missed that meeting where that was going to be the entrance and it was going to open on to um uh center street there that and kind of merge into the civic auditorium city council uh plaza uh area is there another picture there as well are those the only ones okay thank you um well um well i respect the work that the staff and uh delac has done um what i might be contributing tonight is um might not be what you want to hear but this is what i've heard from the community that that i've um been talking to i don't know if you could put up that um i wanted to do it but i'm very concerned about um our community enlarging its carbon footprint and um i have a uh a substitute motion that i would i would like to put out there's no there's no motion on the floor right now there's just a recommendation well i'm gonna i'm gonna put out this motion right here then um that we uh i don't know if you can make that a little bigger for people to be able to see but um is that as big as you can make it that's as big as i can to have it all you can get it on the tv's out there or no it is it's on there uh so i would um my motion would be uh a four-part motion would be to accept the downtown library advisory committee's report of of january 25th 2018 and number two that the city council acknowledges that we are not traffic experts and we will return to the original scope of the nelson-neigard consultant contract and reengage these consultants in designing a fully vetted transportation demand management uh plan for downtown and number three that the city council also acknowledged that the library should be separated from any parking structure and that the two projects should be addressed on their own merits and a sub of that would be um the city council will appoint a subcommittee uh of the of the city council excuse me to uh hold a minimum of three public scoping sessions in order to determine how to move forward on a new downtown library with the purpose of staying within measure s allocated funds be uh the city council's direct staff to hold off on planning any additional city-built garage until a tdm program has been in place for at least one year see direct staff to immediately partner with metro and institute a two-year pilot eco pass program and offer all downtown employees free of charge bus passes and allocate a minimum of three hundred eleven thousand dollars from the parking fund toward this effort with the understanding that those receiving these passes would not be eligible for monthly parking passes and d will city council would appoint a committee to come up with recommendations on how to re-envision the area between lincoln and cathcart along cedar street notice parking lot four and uh the fourth part of this motion would be that staff report back to the city council in three months concerning the progress of citing a downtown library that's the motion yes okay great well then i'll second that um i am gonna ask for a friendly amendment that um we include i'm just seconding the motion asking the maker of the motion for friendly amendment uh that um staff shall also report back to the city council uh with a specific plan for affordable housing truly affordable housing um within the project scope i would accept that um but can you put any any numbers on it because that was a question i always had like everybody talks about affordable housing and affordable by design and affordable this affordable that i sure 50 to 80 is it 80 to 120 or what what is affordable uh i would use a 60 percent of median income rate the very low income rate that we use in our inclusionary guidelines um and and i'm certainly not talking about affordable by design thank you i accept that amendment is there a discussion i'll make a comment on that um so i um appreciate councillor crone and councillor brown's intentions here with the motion i however am not going to support it um and was prepared to move the staff recommendations with some caveats to that and some additions uh i won't support it because i feel like this project is exactly what we've been talking about when we've been talking about thinking about housing in particular but how we envision our community this project um isn't just looking at the project in and of itself it's really looking at our downtown and what we expect for our downtown how we want the community to be able to engage with it and use it including working living playing um event space uh envisioning a new place for the farmers market that is actually a outdoor space with you know a much better configuration and charging stations for electric vehicles and event space for gatherings um this is really our opportunity that we have been asking for to not just think about things project by project by project but how those things can be done holistically and thinking about what our community is going to look like in generations to come and i think one of the things that's so interesting about the conversation about the library is that there's so much nostalgia wrapped up in it and that came up a lot tonight and i appreciate that very much and i also think that we have a tremendous responsibility for the future users of the library um which our current library is completely uh lacking right now and a huge part of that also i though i think are the concerns that council member crone has around our impact on climate and i do believe that these are not mutually exclusive that we've been actively and robustly pursuing tdm and we should absolutely continue to do that and this project doesn't ignore that so i am uh prepared to um unfortunately i won't support the motion on the floor i am prepared if it uh if there isn't support for the current motion to move the staff recommendation with some additions that do include things about tdm um outside outdoor spaces and engaging the community in the ways that were described about how we can uh envision our downtown collectively so i will not support the motion on the floor okay i won't be supporting the motion on the floor either although i do appreciate the issue of looking at some of the issues in regards to planning future planning in the downtown library and um i on that point i feel like we need a long-term vision for our downtown and this is a one of those pieces that looks at how we can reimagine our downtown to be more family friendly and more focused on infrastructure for the next generation i don't see what's here um being recommended as one that moves us forward it kind of keeps us at the status quo so um i am unable to support the motion on the floor i'll just add a few comments if actually i can i i just without you know being repetitive of what i've said at previous meetings or what's already been spoken um by council member chase and mayor trazos is just this really huge need to balance um you know what we have now what we want in the future um external circumstances um planning and bigger vision um i really want to also echo the importance of thinking about a policy decision that lasts well beyond our time on council or our time on this planet but for the future generations that are going to inherit santa cruise um i really do believe that our downtown is severely lacking opportunities for children to engage and i think this is a great opportunity to do so and i know that this is would be the beginning of something um that would be further discussed with hopefully a very robust community process and input uh engagement um and you know i think there are also opportunities for us to have checks along the way if we are wrong with our projections what's our policy plan be how can we uh convert uh the the potential parking structure into affordable housing or sell off existing lots i think we can have those checks and balances along the way as well as have a really thoughtful process in terms of what we hope to see for the current and existing sites so for those for those reasons as well as some of the other ones that have already been mentioned um i too won't be supporting at the time i do also want to just if i could add that i think there are really a lot of things that we do share and then there are elements within here in terms of wanting a robust uh tdm program in place of really checking back with the public and really working with the community so i do know that although this maybe um isn't something i'll support at this time i think there are aspects that we can find council alignment um moving forward so the motion on the floor motion by council member crone second by council member brown council member crone i didn't want to pick up on what council member uh what i can said about policy decisions that will last for generations pouring cement is cement is one of the worst you know carbon footprint you know greenhouse gases are admitted um cutting those 17 trees down on that site it's another we're modeling what i would consider behavior that is not what's going to uh be good for those future generations that we're we're modeling behavior that's um really destructive to the current planet and if it doesn't start here in santa cruz if we can't be modeling um good environmental behavior when we don't even have a person overseeing this when you green building standards i don't i don't know i'm on the climate action task force and i don't see anything um guiding a lot of the environmental behavior in our town i know that the current climate action task force coordinator is working really hard and diligently on lots of different projects but um i think we're missing the the bigger picture here i think you know i i believe parking cars is what's driving this whole project um and as i said earlier as i said earlier um the issues uh these issues are so unresolved in our community you know and i i can't help but think being in this chamber in october of 1997 when there was a council that tried to push forward a beach and south of laurel plan against the wishes of many people in the community although at that time maybe the council didn't realize how many and so i'm just um saying you know this if you go ahead and do this tonight um i mean i i would hope you would support this this what i put forward because i think we need to take a step back here and and from i think the brink uh and we have a chance to actually send that message to those future generations that we we didn't build the parking lot the no project alternative and we actually went off in a in a different direction one that is more um life sustaining on for the for the planet too um thank you thank you all in question okay so there's a motion motion on the floor by councilmember crown seconded by councilmember brown those in favor favor of the motion please say i i those opposed please say no no okay that motion fails with councilmember uh brown and crown voting in favor councilmember noroyan vice mayor walkins councilmember chase and myself a post so now we'll return back to the council for deliberation is there a second an alternative motion so um i will move the staff recommendations and i have a few things that i would like to include in that um some of them i'm just sort of reiterating statements that are already made um one and then some i'd like a council consideration on so one is to really reinforce maintaining our robust tdm program and certainly include in that um the new which i know is sort of assumed but the impact of having the jump bike program and how that will impact sort of movement downtown continuing to um evaluate the best use of our eco passes and plan and how that would make sense i understand the proposal that was put forward didn't actually make sense um but i think that we can probably come to a place where there is something that does make sense for downtown so i'd like us to pursue that um i want to reinforce item number six which just really really um focus on the active engagement of the dta as they requested in the vision for downtown as well as the design but also really reinforce what bonnie described in terms of the outreach to the community to fully engage actively the community in that um as project as as we move forward and to reinforce the housing blueprint subcommittees uh community engagement recommendations of making sure that the public is involved early and in a meaningful way so that their recommendations for design and all of those things are done at a time where it can actually impact the project um i want to really focus on maximizing our outside spaces in the project including um pursuing the possibility of maintaining the trees that exist there the magnolias in particular um to the extent that we can and then continuing to work with the city urban forester to determine if it's feasible to move them if they are not able to be maintained and then the latest one that i just uh came up with was i really think this is our opportunity to come up with a public facing indestructible outside bathroom that is open 24 hours a day to me this is the project where we can actually probably work this in it's astoundingly expensive to do these things people are often surprised um i think this is our opportunity so i would like to see us work that into the proposal and i'll stop there second thank you okay there's a motion by council member chase second by council member doroyan i thank you about the bathroom idea yeah i think um if we can incorporate that and do kind of have the indestructible bathroom that takes a lot of effort to vandalize that would be great the other thing i wanted to add possibly is a friendly amendment one of the things that's being done with parking garages that are being built in other cities they're doing what's called future proofing where the parking structures are built in the way that can be repurposed easily so for instance you know a lot of people are saying that parking might become obsolete because we'll you know first first of all people who are under 30 are not getting their driver's licenses or buying cars nearly at the rate of people who came before them so that's a really interesting trend and those tend to be the people who are attracted to living in an urban environment so it's not unrealistic to say that you know parking at some point might become a little more obsolete and so their future proofing or designing these garages in a way that each floor can be converted it requires a level base flat floors upfront costs that are virtually the same as traditional parking garages actually and denver has future proofed their parking and i always believe that when we do vote for big projects like this we need to think not just in the immediate time but 50 years from now so i was hoping that perhaps we can add to the motion asking staff to look into future proofing a park the parking garage i would accept that is there okay looks like yeah i would accept that amendment i would if i may i don't know if it needs to be an amendment but i'm sure it will incorporate it at some time but it would be helpful to also learn more about the affordable housing vision for it being integrated or and connected to affordable housing in our downtown so i mean in terms of reporting back at a future time i'd love to learn more about that then comes from around um this is a this is a difficult decision for me to make in many ways because i agree with my colleagues pretty much everything that's been said here and i i want to reiterate my my respect for all of the work that's gone into bringing this proposal before us the visioning you know i share a very you know a strong i mean i can't say how strong of a desire for a library that really meets the needs of our community and is us that family friendly space you know i want to see all of those things happen and so i don't want my reticence to support this the motion on the floor to in any way suggest that i i don't support all of those things and that i will absolutely be involved in the conversation moving forward to ensure that we get to where we collectively want to be that said um you know i as many of you know and i've said here many times you know my uh you know i one of the reasons that i uh ran for city council was really to um to support affordable housing development truly affordable housing according to our inclusionary guidelines we talk a lot about affordable housing by design affordable housing has now been dangled as with many projects in front of us as a reason to support moving forward with this plan and until i see some demonstration that that will actually come to fruition it's very hard for me to believe and i i feel like we get this in a lot of projects well we need to approve this because we need affordable housing i don't see the affordable housing getting built arena you know where we're at in terms of our rena goals and i won't go into those details right now um show that we are woefully behind on affordable housing development so you know that's one of the main reasons that i'm i'm having a hard time with this i don't believe that affordable housing will just come as a result of you know a parking garage attached to a library um and another reason that i'm having a hard time with uh supporting this is that you know i'm i'm not really clear based upon the feedback that we've received from the community that this is something that the community is uh truly behind i you know i've heard more um i've heard more opposition on this project than i have since the the beach area plan i believe um and and so i have a feeling that um for those who asked that this uh go back to the voters that that may be happening no matter what if we if we do make the decision to move forward with this plan it may be coming back to us without our mate are actually acting to take it to the voters um so you know i just want to say but you know with uh community support seeming a little bit uh wish you wash you here to me and i appreciate everybody who's come out and said you support it um i i believe you do and i want to work with you all moving forward whatever iteration this becomes um but i can't support the the motion tonight and i won't reiterate all of the environmental reasons and all of that because i think that many of you have articulately laid them out and number one it talks about accepting the downtown library advisory community recommendations and move forward with the design and development of the project i know we've had this discussion about um when it goes through the planning process sometimes there's no design review and i'd like to make sure that one this does go through that the um planning commission there's some sort of design review they can set up a subcommittee of that so that there is a formal process that's set up for the design so that's not just one where we kind of go forward and have those recommendations so i'd like to ensure that that um there's design review that's established through the planning commission through subcommittee of the planning commission to review whatever proposal comes forward so that's not just you know you know what we've seen sometimes typically it might just be process through a single department because i think this this is a much bigger project than um what we've seen in the past i just um if um lee butler planning director could comment on this i wonder um how this project would be impacted by the new um community outreach or engagement process that we just voted on i think a couple meetings ago to see what it would look like with this specific project and if that meets the mayor's expectations sure thank you mayor and council member lee butler planning director and at your last meeting you did accept the uh and adopt the new community outreach policy this would be considered a significant project under that um through that process we identified a subcommittee of the planning commission getting involved early on to provide design guidance so something like that is certainly similar to what the mayor is suggesting um i was gathering something um even slightly more robust than that in terms of the planning commission's involvement as far as what the mayor was suggesting correct very much similar okay thank you did you accept the yes and rachel okay okay council member crown um i know a couple people came up to support the project and said that uh they're worried about carbon footprint but so i didn't understand the enlarging the carbon footprint in order to decrease it um by taking up some of the surface lots and consolidating the parking um which you know i hate to get in the way of the the trains leaving the station but uh again the tdm has not been done to the point of like when we instituted we stopped the desal project it was because of we implemented a whole bunch of measures um that we didn't have to have the desal and uh it started with conservation and really a good tdm project uh or plan transportation demand management plan would start with you know that c word you know conservation and people you know us modeling that for the community um i'm just wondering from the city attorney um there was a question about a referendum on a council decision how how long does that take and what what what needs to happen right now to have a referendum on this decision should it go forward it's premature for a referendum to be brought forward on this decision because it's not considered a legislative act like a decision to actually approve the project would be after going through the land use entitlement process that is a decision that could that could be subject to referendum but not a preliminary decision of this nature where the council is merely the most part selecting a preferred alternative to further analyze and study and to bring forward at some point as a quasi legislative decision that could be referended and um our economic development director when do you perceive that land use acquiring entitlements going through is there a timeline yes um this is a very rough timeline but um so the next nine months will be pre-designed so we the entitlements would be in the second phase the following behind that 18 to 24 months the design of environmental review and and engineering um the last thing i'll say before we vote um really is um from somebody who's a hero of mine his name is bill mckibbin coral reef researchers indicate that these spectacularly intricate ecosystems are also spectacularly vulnerable rising water temperatures are likely to bleach them to extinction by mid century in the arctic polar bears are 20 scrawnier than they were a decade ago as ice pack as pack ice melts so does the opportunity for hunting seals all in all the 21st century seems poised think about the 21st century uh library the 21st century seems poised to see extinctions at a rate not observed since the last big asteroids slammed into the planet but this time the asteroid is us it's a moral question finally if you think we owe any debt to the future no one has ever no one ever has figured out a more thorough going way to strip mine the present and degrade what comes after all the people who will ever be related to you ever no generation yet to come will ever forget us we are the ones present at the moment when the temperature starts to spike and so far we have not reacted if it had been done to us we would loathe the generation that did it precisely as we will one day be loathed and bill mckibbin wrote that in 2001 and things have only gone faster than he had ever expected hi thank you we have a motion on the floor second motion on the floor in a second all those in favor please say aye aye those opposed no okay um no okay um that passes with councilmember chase vice mayor walkins councilmember marion and myself and um opposed by councilmember crone and councilmember brown we're not done yet though we've got one more item so um thank you for all of you that um we're here for the meeting we're going to move on but or move back to item 14 um this is in regards to appointments to our historic she's in the back historic preservation uh commission we go back to it don't leave don't leave anybody no we're almost there almost there leaving on a okay thank you let's uh get back to the last item of our agenda which is item number 14 alise please uh we need to move on thank you item number 14 this is the uh general business for the historic preservation commission appointment with two vacancies um and i'll turn it over to hey excuse me intense we're just going to wrap up here so please step out okay this is a motion to appoint up to two historic preservation commissioners at this time and um we have in our packet two the names of the commissioners so what we normally do is ask for um we go down the road for see if any if there's any um nominations and then we put it to a vote there's two vacancies okay so let's do that so councilmember brown do you have a nomination you can nominate up to two um oh okay so now i have to look up the name sorry i hold on one second well for action here um time i guess okay i'm i'm ready having uh read through the um applications um and and just looked at the the expertise and credentials of the applicants and and they're uh can you so much shut the go ahead and um you know they're rationale for wanting to serve i would put out the i would i would put out nominations for um tracy bliss and um i want to make sure and i will i hope i don't mispronounce his name um hold on one second almost there sorry i should have just written him down um albert albert um naras albert naras is that correct okay so all right those would i would i would nominate those thank you councilmember noroyan it's been covered okay thanks for my walk it's councilmember crown i'd like to nominate you carter he's served he's an architect he's served on the county historic the city's historic preservation commission previously he brings a kind of construction knowledge to the challenge of historic preservation that would be really valuable and uh albert naras is just hands down amazing albert naras right what was his name yeah i'm just just fine okay and you they're covered i'm gonna add william schultz so that's bill schultz and tracy bliss so it looks like um we'll we'll put it for for about first um all those in favor of uh no we go we go and say our or the two that we want yeah yeah now i'm going to say because we have the nominations of all those around there but um all those in favor of um no what you could do is go through in each vote for two you each say two names because because whoever gets the most votes will probably have the longer term okay okay gotcha right and then ask the clerk to call out the names of those that were nominated well no ask sandi to give her two names and then rachel no she goes for nominations okay so on the nominations i'm gonna stick with my uh two votes being um tracy bliss and albert naras i'm also going to stick with those two councilmember crown uh tracy bliss so i'm just voting for one uh hugh carter and albert naras you and albert and i'll vote for tracy bliss and um and william schultz i didn't hear the last two william tracy tracy bliss and william schultz for you you voted for you carter and and naras albert naras and i had the same would you like me just to list the one naras and then you voted for bliss and schultz that's right and what about uh vice mayor whatkins she voted for well i'll choose me i voted for tracy bliss and albert naras so we have tracy bliss and albert naras both have five votes you might want to uh councilmember crown didn't crown who is your second vote you didn't vote you voted i thought you voted for tracy bliss yes so there is five votes each for naras and bliss and that means you might want to designate which one would have the longer term they would both be eligible for reappointment but one of them would have to be reappointed starting this january or if someone who voted flip a coin for one of the which do you want which a little like the person that didn't vote who did not quick councilmember crown which which would you bless for the longer seat i'm fine with that i don't really have a preference yeah but bliss is fine for the longer seat frankly i would prefer albert naras if you look at his credentials and i met with him briefly for about an hour and a half the um knowledge connection with the university um it will be really invaluable so that'd be my preference for the longer term okay well then we'll just go and we heard i heard councilmember crown bliss narra do you have a preference on the longer term longer term naras i mean i was fine with bliss so it looks like narra gets a longer term okay so that concludes the item for number 14 and that brings us right up to the end of our meeting so i thought we would go till 11 30 and i'm pleasantly surprised i won't but you're welcome to so um thank you everybody we're adjourned until our next meeting on september 25th have a good evening thank you christine for an amazing job that was a good job thank you good job