I'm gonna keep talking. I'm gonna keep Hey people in the back. Can you hear me? I'm gonna guess not. Sorry what? I think so Good luck But it is coming through the You Sue can you just ask if if it's in fact on On line on the streaming do you know I mean cuz if we're if that's good then we'll just go Okay, okay All right team welcome good evening So we're gonna call this meeting to order And as I understand it the we're still yeah, we're still working on getting them my the speakers turned on in the house But apparently they're on online so team we're all just gonna have to use our outdoor voices Okay All right, so that the people in the back in here is that is that cool? There are seats in the front if you want to move to the front so you can hear better Okay, outdoor voices, it's okay All right, so the first thing is to review and approve the agenda. We've got a few changes. I'd like to make Just a heads up we should probably Pull either the school board appointment from the consent agenda only because there are a few of us that I need To recuse ourselves, so just a heads up on that I think if Just want to check the online Agenda Yep, so online it has the housing task force Update as being after the proposed parking garage structure design. I'd like to switch the order that let's move the house housing task force ahead of the parking garage structure and then of one a couple other changes the communication strategy We're gonna move to the end just before other business And then just a heads up on the the Central Mott solid waste district municipal services Program grant we are in fact not going to be applying right now, so We can talk more about that in fact I'd love to like have a brief discussion about that later But just so you know that the substance of that of like applying for a grant is not in fact happening So at least not right now. So those are all the changes. I know about does anybody else have other changes they Think they'd like to see No, okay, great. So without objection will consider the Agenda approved it's moving on to general business and appearances So this is a time for members of the public to come speak to the council on any item that is not otherwise on our agenda and If you could try to well try to keep your comments to about two minutes or less and as with any comments as is our custom If you come to to comment on any item that is on our agenda if you keep your comments to about two minutes or less and Donna Will be here and help us Navigate the time and I know there's a little bit of grace in there, but I will cut you off eventually so So Yeah, go ahead Yep, and if you'd say also say your name and where you are from Harris Webster from Montpelier and So people at home can hear you You're good The city council all city officials and all the audience Participate in we walk week which starts September 30th I there's not many better ways that you can learn about your city than by walking in streets I'm going to also mention one other thing Because I forgot it a week ago. I want to thank city council member Don Bates for participating in the pedestrian scramble last year and for her leadership support of all the kind of altering transportation committees including trees committee It's really feels good to have city council member there and listening to us Thank you. Thanks. Thank you. Harris Jeff Dworkin I'm here with Kathy Mets. We live at 24 Liberty Street We'd like to say a few words about the proposed parking ban on Liberty Street while the elementary school has its reconstruction going on The parking band seems like a good idea for the reasons stated by Tom McCartle for Safety and for large vehicles like the school bus to be able to pass Because it is a fairly narrow street Unfortunately, it's also spawned a problem as Reasonable as the measure is the problem that spawned is an old one And just to give you a moment of history some years ago the residents of lower Liberty Street drew up a petition and presented it to city council to request that speed bumps be installed because people fly down that street There are kind of count them, but there must be a hundred school kids that Walk down Liberty Street to one of the two schools twice a day The problem that the regulation is spawning is that We have had parking on both sides of the street, which has acted as an informal traffic calming device Sounds kind of odd, but it's been effective When you have that street narrowed by parking on both sides, we can definitely see cars slowing down It may be kind of a ad hoc and unapproved calming device, but it has worked The problem now with a ban on one side of the street is cars are going to start flying down there like they They do when there isn't much parking on the road And it's a serious danger to the school kids that are walking to and from school twice a day We we made that request quite a few probably a dozen years ago to city council that speed bumps be Investigated and put in council didn't act upon it. You have put in speed bumps in the meadows Interestingly there it's there's far less danger to school kids in the meadows. There's far less foot traffic there But we're quite concerned about what Kind of a danger we're going to be inviting now that the street is wider in effect for passing traffic so we are here to ask that this that the Council reconsider speed bumps by way of perhaps referring it to the public works department To come back with an opinion about whether like in the meadows, but even more importantly on lower Liberty Street speed bumps can be Investigated with an opinion back about whether it's feasible one way or another with a wider street and inevitably faster traffic we Seriously believe the greater danger to school kids is being invited and should be headed off. Thank you for that comment so just as a Little bit of information about that. So there are a number of places in Montpelier that have requested speed bumps and The as a response Well, let me back up one of the reasons why Not a lot of speed ones have been put in place is because There hasn't been a really clear process of how we go about deciding where to put them and how do we vet them properly with the public and with You know in being informed with a DPW process and so we had actually tasked the Montpelier Transportation Infrastructure Committee to come up with a process to Determine whether or not speed bumps are appropriate now because this is a temporary measure It may make some sense to sort of evaluate that separately and I know speed bumps can be put in on a temporary basis. So that seems like a At least a worthwhile thing to look into so if we can just make a note of checking in on that, that'd be great Thank you. I just asked for a point of information. Sure We can ask Tom McCartle about whether or not we can go outside that process and speed up You know just let the process looking at whether or not we can do this as a temporary measure And particularly what I would be interested in is looking at Temporarily installing speed bumps on Liberty Street Donna, but there are other elements of traffic coming and that's one of the things this Transportation group is looking at the whole picture and trying to have a real clear process And so even without that though DPW would want to look at it holistically. What would be the best way to slow people down? The council to pay special attention to that new problem because Great, thank you I'm glad he asked what is checking into it mean because I want to ask directly are we going to get the crosswalk shimped To drain before this winter snow and ice season. You want to introduce yourself Steve Whitaker? here related to The safety of having water back up into the crosswalks and freeze And I called it to city manager's attention over a year ago right after the paving was done and it's It's been ground, but it hasn't been shimmed secondly in tonight. It's very obvious The priority on getting the system to I looked at the minutes in the minutes give very short shift to The issue of crosswalks. I complained about the crosswalks It doesn't get into the detail that it means we're relying on the video and the video without audio is Deficient, so we really need to get this room tuned quicker so that part his people can meaningfully participate here from anywhere in the room and That's not something that Can be put off Month after month, thank you if I might it's just worth a reminder because this pops up every now And then I follow what's considered best practices and take action minutes So I don't characterize what people say or I do as minimally as possible, and that's considered best practice Just so you know they're I'm saying that it's okay to rely on the video, but only if you're getting good video with audio so yep, and Just you know bill has been out for the last week, so well. I'll follow up with him about that. Thank you. Yep Okay, anything further Okay, move it. Oh, yep. Go ahead Okay, well what what topic did you want to speak about I we're from up here. We're here. My name's Laura We're here from the citizens against plastic pollution group Is that charter change? It is not on the agenda tonight and we will not be taking it up tonight All right Yeah, and I also just wanted to thank you for sending us the stuff about the grant And I think we are going to apply for the grant for our citizens great And do you want to clarify what the grant is about grant is for Reduce reducing solid waste in the in our town And what we're asking for is and what the chart of change is about is about banning single-use plastic bags in Montpelier, and so what we would apply for the grant what we wanted to ask for was Money to get a bunch of reusable shopping bags made that we will hand out for free Thank you so much Great Okay, anyone else Great, okay moving on Consideration of the Consent Agenda I move the Consent Agenda as amended Okay, you got it For the discussion Um Right when do we recuse ourselves? No, well as amended was less was less that I'm just think okay, so Okay, great. Thank you All right, so no further discussion all in favor, please say aye aye opposed great, and I'm going to recuse myself for this next bit all right so I believe that takes us to the Consideration of the appointment for the Yes So at this point we are now going to take up the appointment to the school board I believe that there's only the one applicant Andrew I believe is here. Would you like to address the council on the public or? Just wanted to give you the opportunity Okay, so I suppose at this point do we have a motion I Move to appoint Andrews sign to the Montpelier Roxbury school board And a second second any further discussion I'm gonna recuse myself because of my job with the agency of education Okay, I think we have enough I'll have to recuse myself to is a employee of Vermont on the a Think I'm also recusing myself right for but can I vote? Okay, I wasn't sure all right All right, so any further discussion All right all those in favor of appointing Andrew Stein Please say aye aye aye Nay votes none abstentions I believe there are three and that would be Connor Casey Mayor and Watson and Counselor Rosie Krueger didn't upstain. They excuse themselves. We're recused. That's okay. He'll get it. Okay. It'll be okay Okay, thank you Thanks a great job Okay So we have a few appointments to make so the first up is the planning commission appointments So if any members of the planning commission are here or People who'd like to be appointed to the planning commission now would be a good time to introduce yourself and there are two seats or two types of seats in this situation, so If you have preferences as to I'm not looking at I think it's either one year or two year If your preference is either for the one year or the two year seat if you can express that that would be very helpful Just come and introduce yourself that'd be great Just and and a process question. Yes, can we hear all three groups that are having appointments? So we have one executive session. Sure. That's fine Is that okay with everyone? Okay, go ahead Good evening mayor city staff and council. My name is Brian Evans. I'm a resident of Montpelier. I live up on Elm Street I put my name in for the planning council commission Just because I want to give back Doing my best. I don't know if this mic is getting back there I could I could speak into it, but I don't know if it's coming. Yeah, that's better So I work for the state of Vermont Department for Children and Families. I'm the financial director I've been involved in public policy Planning work from a capital construction point of view I have a sort of diverse skill set that I think would be very valuable to the commission and Just put my name in for consideration and thank you Any questions? Great Thank you I'll hold it. Good evening everyone. I'm Leslie welds. Can you hear me back there? Okay? I'm the current chair of the Planning Commission and Everyone on the Planning Commission. I believe has entered their name seeking re-appointment and I just want to say the group is working really well together and I Would be, you know, supportive of every single member the Planning Commission being re-appointed I think we have we cross a lot of demographics right now with our group We have a lot of thoughtful discussion and it's sort of an exciting time We're starting our work on the new city plan we had a great meeting with a lot of various committees and some of you are in attendance at the meeting Thank you for coming and Those of you who weren't there, I mean, I guess everyone stay tuned because we're gonna keep working on that process And the the immediate work. I'll just use this as a quick update since I'm here The immediate work that we're working on right now, and I'm sure Mike Miller has been keeping you appraised is Doing zoning fixes as they work through are they receive permit applications? They're realizing there are some difficulties here and there And so we've identified a few items that probably need to be sent to you immediately for immediate correction and some others that will send more As a package later. So thank you. I Guess if there's any questions, of course Well, I think Leslie took care of that, but I'm Barbara Henry I'm current member of the planning Commission and I'm Very excited about the work that we're doing on the city plan and really look forward to being able to continue. So Thanks Hi, I'm Kim Jeannie. I Sent you all a note saying I'm gonna be away for a good part of the winter. I Don't want any special treatment if that's an absolute requirement Then I Wouldn't be qualified on the other hand if possible, I'd like to serve I think Kind of Being at the beginning of the zoning process and working with a prior plan and seeing how it worked out and more importantly working with Mike and the planning department and the fellow commissioners I Do think we have the opportunity to have a really productive group and It's fun to work with so if I can be of service to the city. I'd like to continue Hi Stephanie Smith, I live over on Charles Street. I'm a current member of the planning Commission I was appointed back in February. So I'm one of the two newest members of the planning Commission But it's been it's been a really great experience so far getting to Getting caught up on what happened with the zoning since I missed what actually happened but now talking to the punch list And I'm a planner. I'm particularly excited about getting to work on the city plan I currently I work for the state of Vermont doing climate change adaptation planning at a state level. So it's good to Be able to bring that to a more local perspective and work with my planning experience on the community Where I live and help to make continue to keep this a vibrant place So I would very happily stay on the planning Commission and I'd like to really be part of that process going forward. So, thank you Hello, everyone. I'm Kirby Keaton. I'm currently the vice chair of the planning Commission Also, you're representative to the regional planning Commission So if you have any questions about the regional planning Commission, what's going on there, you can talk to me You can always talk to Mike about these things too. He says a breast I have a I'm an attorney. I work for the Department of Taxes Have some background in land use law environmental law. That's kind of what I bring Hi, my name is Aaron Kaseki. I am not a current member of the planning Commission and apparently I'm applying for the most popular Just a little bit of myself. I'm also an attorney for the state. I have a number of years working for the Department of Public Service there was a lot of I undertook a lot of review and analysis of town plans and Zoning bylaws, so I figured this would be a good fit for that skill set And I think there's a lot of the development that's been going on in the city Particularly for the past year and a half two years is exciting and it's creating a lot of vibrancy in the town I'd like to be a part of that and thanks for your consideration. Thanks Okay So also on our list is appointments to the design review committee So is there anyone here for For that No, okay Gonna move right along then Recreation advisory board a good evening. I'm Peter Cohen. I live up on Mountain View Street First time applying for this position or any similar one, but I'm relatively new to the area I've been here two plus years and just trying to get involved and looking at this from the perspective of a parent I have three stepchildren and then a younger two-year-old as well and the recreation mostly sports but other activities have been pretty important in to our introduction to this area and Just I guess from being involved myself and from observing there's things that I really like and things that I've had questions about And just would like to be involved in and helping out and then kind of moving into the future Thank you Good evening. My name is Heather Bailey and I'm a resident of Mount Pelier And I'm applying to be on the Recreation advisory board. I have a tremendous background in physical education as I was a teacher coach and athlete and I'm also involved with the blunt bunch the jump splash initiative and I would like to be involved with the recreation advisory board I don't have children at home, but I certainly am interested in youth Thank you Think there was at least one more applicant for this they're here No, okay. All right. I think that is it So yes, Rosie I move that we go into executive session for the purpose of in accordance with One VSA section 313. I'm sorry Rosie. I can't even hear you. Oh I move that we go into an executive session for the purpose of an appointment In accordance with one VSA section 313 Second, right All in favor. Hi Okay, we will be Right back. I move that we appoint for The four two-year terms Leslie Welts Barbara Connery Kirby Keaton and Stephanie Smith And for the three one-year terms John Adams Ariane Cassant Kaseem and Aaron Kiziki So second All in favor, please say aye. I post Right, and I just want to say Directly to Kim Cheney, but thank you so much for your service since 2011 we're just we're so grateful and I'm best of luck in all your travels And I also want to invite anyone who I guess I'm speaking to to Brian now, but anyone who was not Appointed what I specifically invite you to apply for the Design review committee as there are positions there that we're still looking to fill. So Thank you so much to all. All right. And so moving on Design review committee. All right mayor. I'd like to make a motion to appoint Liz Pritchett as the alternate on the DRC second For the discussion all in favor, please say aye. I opposed Great. Thank you so much and Recreation advisory board. I move that we appoint Peter Cohn and Heather Bailey to the recreation advisory board second All in favor, please say aye. I opposed great congratulations both and Thank you for committing to serve All right, so moving on we're gonna go to the housing task force update So I think I'm you know who you are and I'm gonna invite you all up He is Polly nickel and we're the co-chairs of the housing task force and this is the first time we've appeared before this council so what we'd like to do is kind of give you just a quick overview of what the housing task force does what we're up to Currently and then talk a little bit about one of the tools that we oversee the housing trust fund and make some recommendations as you head into the into the budget season and With us in the crowd today or other members of the task force Jim Libby and Liz Gange and Mary Alice Bisbee and Joe Triano and Representative Hooper off also often join us along with others on occasion. So we're grateful for their contributions So through actually throughout the presentation. You'll see a sprinkling of pictures from various housing affordable housing neighborhoods and properties around the community and here is a picture of the groundbreaking for Taylor Street Which is very exciting and now underway and then on the bottom are north branch apartments Which are along Elm Street and we're Redeveloped by Down Street housing and housing Vermont some number of years ago So you're familiar with this but our basic job is to advise the city council on housing issues We also have the specific task of developing guidelines for the use of the housing trust fund and then we make recommendations around that to you We'll be doing that a little later on In addition to recommending funding levels for the trust fund And basically what we're about is trying to promote an adequate supply of safe decent housing that's affordable At a range of income so it really can serve everyone in our community and we're supported by the Department of Planning and Community Development and most specifically by Kevin Casey things that we're working on right now include developing recommendations to you for an update to the guidelines that Provide for the oversight and use of the housing trust fund That was something I think you discussed a few months ago and thought maybe there needed to be a revision and an update So we're happy to dive into that and there's a subcommittee that's working on that We'll bring those back to you when it's a good time for you later in the year We're also we participated in the kickoff meeting that the Planning Commission held around the new city plan and we'll be coordinating with them around the housing element or the housing chapter of that and we'll be supporting and looking the Good Samaritan Haven as they enter into the second year of a hosting with Bethany Church the the warming shelter and seeing if there are things that we can do to help Help them with that work So as part of the Planning Commission process We went through the development of what are what should the city's goals be or the housing task force goals be for housing It's pretty detailed. They're structured as aspirations in order to be consistent with other committees and essentially it's about We want to have enough housing Available and affordable to serve the people of our community We want housing that's safe healthy energy efficient and in neighborhoods that are vital and have easy access For people that are accessible and also to allow people to easily access the important elements of our community And then finally we want housing that's available to all that's absent Discrimination and that provides for really inclusive community So all pretty basic stuff, but it's important to have it down somewhere so you can reference it and look back to it So things that happen in the housing world and the housing market go far beyond our city borders But and much of it is I know we're at the whim of larger economic trends and things that We can't really control but there are lots of things that municipalities can do and Montpellier is already doing a lot of them and they're in these kind of four general areas around regulation and Examples of that are permitting and just updated the zoning Building codes help set the stage for on the kind of housing that can happen in our community There's of course planning to the master plan But also housing and economic development strategies that people are Updating and working on and of course funding is an important element and that happens through the housing trust fund But also in terms of how the city chooses to fund infrastructure the TIF district is an example of that and then by being willing to sponsor and Secure or apply for state CDBG grants that brings a lot of resources So that's another way in which the community supports Housing here and then there's education. So one example of that is the Montpellier housing task force I helped host a community conversation on homelessness About a year and a half ago. I think And I think that helped people understand what was happening in our community. We were seeing more homelessness A lot of people was concerned. What can we do about it? What's the best way to help people? What isn't helpful and then I think that it actually helped make the community More welcoming to the to the warming shelter when that was proposed Another example of education is just how does the city talk about housing? How does it represent itself to developers? How does it communicate with people who come in for permits? How does it characterize what kind of funding is it going to be for housing and all sends a message to sort of the external? World about the city's intention around housing another example is just that we just got an email today from Jim Libby that the The federal tax reform included some incentives for private building owners to sprinkle their buildings so maybe we'll look into that and the housing task force can have a session and encourage people to come and and See if that's one way in which we can get some of our older buildings Sprinkled that aren't currently So housing is all about the people who live in it fundamentally. It's a it's a basic need We need to provide it for our citizens If you don't have a safe decent stable place to live you really can't get much of anything else in your right It helps right in your life. You can't be a good citizen. You can't be a good parent. You can't be a good student employee Advocate so that's the primary purpose, but housing is also the foundation for lots of other Benefits and public goods that we want to see in our community and these are some examples. So for example when Montpelier supports unaffordable housing Development or new neighborhood that comes with a high standard of energy efficiency and often includes renewable energy sources as the heating That's been the case in many instances Diversity is another thing we don't always think about when we think about making sure there's enough affordable housing in our communities But not only is it ensure economic diversity, but it also brings Cultural diversity often new Americans that first come to the first come to Vermont From different parts of the world other refugees or others can find their first homes They're I mean they're just getting their feet under them and often they need affordable housing to as a place to land and build their lives here in fact of the Property that you see here in the background the top is a picture of what the north branch apartments looked like long ago It was an incredibly distressed Blighted and then ultimately flooded a section of Elm Street and it took A concerted effort on the part of many led by Down Street housing and community development to revitalize that In time that became home to many of people who were fleeing The wars in central Europe and there were a lot of Bosnian and Serbian families who lived there for quite some time That's just one example It's also an example of neighborhood revitalization You can see that many of the affordable housing projects that we do end up in a historic building so that Meets that goal of keeping the historic character and preserving unique spaces and places in our community Whenever there's a project like that that's done It brings dollars along to deal with lead asbestos often brown fields some of the Properties that I'll show you in a little bit I'm on contaminated sites and those those projects bring along resources in order to clean that up that we wouldn't otherwise be able to do Or be hard-pressed to do those dollars those could be really expensive and then it grows the grand list You saw the memo that that poly in the task force prepared. There's lots of information in there But it's pretty substantial the grand list growth that the affordable housing projects in Montpelier have contributed So all that's great. So what's the challenge? What are we looking at here in Montpelier and these are sort of the the main things we're wrestling with and so and they're all going to sound familiar to you rising rents Rising home prices very low vacancy rates a shortage of moderately priced homes and there's you know Statistics and data around that and the memo and unfortunately persistent homelessness There'd been a dip in statewide homelessness and in Washington County in 2015 it bumped up in 2016 again in 2017 and it's remained kind of level in 2018 So it's a problem that hasn't gone away So these these challenges are consistent with national trends But they're exacerbated by Montpelier being a highly desirable place to live That's that's putting pressure on our housing prices both rental and home ownership This is a quote that just kind of characterized that it's from the Joint Center for Housing Studies at Harvard lots of data there But it kind of puts what we're experiencing here in Montpelier and the national context a shorter quote comes from Sean Donovan who was President Obama's Secretary of HUD who said he declared that the nation was in a rental housing Affordability crisis that the is the worst the nation's ever seen and there are a lot of reasons for that So we feel the pinch here in Montpelier if Montpelier hadn't done what it has done. It would be a lot worse So some of the mechanisms we have in place that are helping And here are some signs of recent progress. So created a successful home buyer program Gone through the zoning update which has reduced some of the barriers to housing development The sprinkler ordinance was seen by many as a barrier to New homes being built There are several housing projects underway. There's the French block Taylor Street There's a private project on Maple Lane down by River station condos and the co-op all those are really encouraging Signs the warming shelter has been welcomed and successful the first year And the city has very strong partners in down street housing and community development the Montpelier housing authority and the Good Samaritan Haven Among others Probably is there anything you wanted to add here or I can just run through a few examples of Okay, and then turn up. Okay, so here's a few quick shots of properties that the housing trust fund has been used to invest in before 58 Berry Street old high school. Many of you will remember that there was a fire there Some years ago and a lot of conversation around how are we going to restore this building? What should it be? There were housing trust fund dollars helped Bring other state and federal sources the city applied for community development block grant And that is now 18 affordable senior Apartments gorgeous apartments, which is what you sometimes get in historic properties and then of course an incredibly active Senior center so the housing trust fund was a key element in that and I My day job is as I'm working for a housing funder and I can say if the dollars are really competitive really Lots of communities are stepping up and looking for those state and federal dollars And if the funders don't see that a community is willing to invest in itself, they're not likely They're less likely to want to commit the dollars that they have to to those communities This one's a little bit further down on Berry Street called the Bianchi building was formerly an auto Bond auto parts. It was vacant for a time. You can see it's all boarded up but again has been Redeveloped it is now is eight affordable apartments Right across the street were rivestation apartments and condominiums that was in a former industrial site Brownfield hazardous contamination and the city played a really central role in helping to Make that possible and and now it you know when you think about it. Those are Affordable desirable homes that are on a section in a part of our community that is changing a lot You can see a lot of people investing along Berry Street. There's Caledonia spirit's happening You can see people investing in the buildings the privately owned buildings all around these properties And I think when our community continues to grow the bike path It's going to happen down that corridor And it's really fortunate that the city has invested in affordable housing here and those are required through housing subsidy Covenants to stay as affordable housing. So there's always going to be a place for people of all incomes in that part of our community And this is the one that's underway right now the French block 175,000 and housing trust funds help secure a total of six million in state and federal funding for 18 mixed income apartments There'll be some dedicated to the homeless. There'll be some That our market rate and just rented at fair market rents and it's clearly right in the heart of our community. It's just across the street and I think this is where I'll pretty much finish up, but so the housing challenges, I mean Government can't do everything but government must provide public funding to provide housing where the private market can't do it and The private market can't build housing and rent them at affordable rents and Cover their costs. So that's why government needs to put in subsidy essentially and that's what the city's doing when they support the housing trust fund And also the private sector can't take on challenges. These are pictures of the upper floors of the French block There's lead. There's asbestos. There's more lead paint hazard there than even the equipment our lead program has could even measure There was a really challenging layout and For 70 years the private sector wasn't able to step in and make that work And so it's taken the public funding to do that and it's going to be a real resource for us So those are examples of what the housing trust fund has been able to support in the past and Now Polly will talk about the home buyer program Okay Well, I wanted to just spend a few minutes digging a little deeper into the housing trust fund and In that the housing task force Truly believes that the trust fund needs a predictable and growing pot of money and as Jen said it's really been key to redevelopment of projects in Montpelier 635 thousand dollars has been spent since 2007 when the trust fund started and but that Has generated an additional four point three million for the city's grand list and when the French block is completed That number will go up and that four point three million is almost a hundred twenty thousand dollars annually in new taxes And as Jen said, it's it's leveraged tens of millions of dollars in state and private investments To remind you of the what the economic development strategic plan Says it calls for a variety of housing types quote to build the pipeline of workforce talent And it also says an adequately funded trust fund will be an important tool in financing the variety of housing types Called for in this strategic development in this economic development strategic plan so A brief history it was in the memo it began in 2007 as one cent for housing and the public support It was a valid item and and the support was so strong that after a few years The council decided it should just be part of the city budget Jen showed you some of the projects That it has funded and it has also Funded a program which is the first time home buyer program in terms of projects The trust fund has facilitated the creation of 94 new Multifamily units mostly apartments with some condos and the purchase of 16 homes by first-time home buyers so We think that both programs are important the multifamily rentals bring Lots of investment and resources to the city. They clean up blighted or vacant properties. They add to the housing stock And it's an important tool to maintaining an economically and culturally diverse community and As we said it adds to the grand list first-time home buyers program encourages young families to buy in the city it enables older homeowners to downsize and it puts kids in our schools and it brings in state aid to education and the Community development staff did a little survey of people who had received first-time home buyer program money in the past and Here are just a few of the results 75% of those surveys Reported the program made them more interested in buying in Montpelier 75% said it made it possible or helped them to afford a home in our community and 87% said it was the best form of first-time home buyer assistance as opposed to Do something else like a rehab So just a couple quotes One simply said the first-time home buyers Downpayment assistant program made it possible for my family to purchase a home in Montpelier, but this one I think really captures it Scratching together the down payment was difficult Especially trying to save while paying off student loans that coupled with child care costs and decent but not great wages We looked at other local communities that were less expensive mainly Barry and Barry town But with the down payment assistance, we were able to move to Montpelier Thanks, and and that just I think captures the essence of of the program and what we're hoping for so What are what do we think the the trust fund needs? We had a long conversation at the housing task force about you know How much we should ask for and what we decided was we would start with what we really thought was needed To keep it healthy to fund a multi-family Development like the French French block every two to three years and to have a modest first-time home buyer program And the number we came up with was a hundred and fifty thousand and we know that's a bold request, but That's that's what we think is really needed and In the memo and we're not going to take your time to go through it today We did give you some suggestions that have been used elsewhere in the country By other municipalities to generate money to support affordable housing to date It's come from the general fund It would be great to maintain a base allocation from the general fund But there's also some some other ideas that we've laid out for you to explore It to augment it so just in conclusion on the trust fund I Just you know, we want to say we think it's been highly successful the the photos that Jen has Shown you have illustrated that it's leveraged millions of dollars and other resources It's allowed the city to demonstrate to funders of specific projects its commitment to providing affordable housing It's restored vacant or underutilized properties. It's added to the housing stock It's added to the grand list the first time homebuyers program has enabled young families with children to buy homes in the city And many of these families would not have been able to do so without help from the fund It's also and I think this is really important It's sent a message that Montpelier wants to encourage young families to move to the city I mean realtors know about it. They talk about it It's it's it's it's a positive message on behalf of the city. So we also wanted to say thank you to the council For the past support of the trust fund and we hope that is you begin to build next year's budget You seriously consider a request for increased funding and look at our suggestions for ways that that might be accomplished and I just wanted to close with this picture and the the little boy there is my father and he's sitting on The front porch of their apartment on Berry Street and he lived in rental housing Through his childhood his dad worked on the railroad and helped build 89 his dad's dad was a mailman and his dad's dad's dad Was the station master at the depot building across from Shaw's and it wasn't until I was 10 and my when my parents were able to buy their first home and they bought a Ranch on Berlin Street and it was from there that they were actually be able to build Some equity and some assets and they were able to provide opportunities for my sister and I and then ultimately our kids that that That he and his previous family hadn't been able to enjoy But the reality is that my family or people who have those kinds of professions couldn't afford to live in Montpelier now So I think and then there are a lot and they were I mean they were fine but they couldn't afford to live in Montpelier and there's a lot of people who struggled and Had less than they did who certainly couldn't afford to live in Montpelier. So I think it's really important that we Stay mindful of making sure that our community is a place where people of all walks of life can live and make their lives That's it. Thank you so much. So Questions. Yes, Rosie. So I have one question I read your memo and I was interested and intrigued in by the idea of a property transfer tax on housing Houses sold above five hundred thousand dollars And I don't know if you did any research or if maybe city staff can look into whether a charter change would be required in Order for us to implement that I think it might be and before we kind of investigate that idea further I would that would be an important piece of information So that would be I would be interested in having city staff look into that a little bit more if others are interested in that I was also interested in that one and and part of the Theory behind that is there aren't a lot of sales yet In that price range, but you can just see them creeping up there's a lot in the four hundred thousand dollar range now and Information that the Regional Planning Commission gave us said there were 29 properties in Montpelier that are residential properties that are valued over So You know it seems like the time to do it is Is now where you and I would assume that if we did we would put a Tag it to inflation and you know that sort of thing But I think a first step is to figure out if we even have the power to do it and if we don't then That makes sense to me further. Yeah, we should definitely Rosie I mean No, it was it just you know, it's a nice round number and It it also seems that at that level then then that's not going to create a hardship for anybody Yeah, who's paying that amount and maybe it's okay for them to provide some funding to help For people who aren't able to buy a five hundred thousand dollar house Yeah Yeah, yeah, there are a lot of houses that you would think of you know that just would you know three four bedrooms that You know a family might mean that are in the four hundred thousand range now Actually, I just wanted to thank you It seems as though that housing task force over the years has been really mindful of the impacts of gentrification on communities and I think that While well-intentioned often gentrification leads to a complete lack of diversity And it's clear that that's something that your committee has considered and I think that the council is also really trying to work on But I just I felt it important to acknowledge that It seems like people in town are aware of that and are actively working to prevent that from happening in our community Connor Sort of along the same lines that have been working with the Community Justice Center and the biggest thing I've noticed is some of the folks getting out of prison You know in probation or parole Really the key to their success is you know being back in their communities where they have that support system And we see people getting sent back to prison just because they can't find proper housing So I'm just sort of curious are the conversations with the Community Justice Center Cases where there are publicly funded like housing units available are the restrictions put on somebody with a criminal history Just want to make sure these folks have a you know shot when they do get out here Yeah, it is a little tricky because if there's federal funding Unfortunately, you can't have ever had a mess lab in your house and you can't have a criminal record or the two things that So those are but I think that there are some ways there can be an appeal and some Things that can be done, but it does present a challenge But I do know that the Community Justice Center has been in touch around some of those things and that's certainly a population We want to serve and I think Liz who's the property manager for dance Let's hear that if that's okay Can you say your name speaking with us about hey Liz can you say your name? Housing thank you I did want to just say I Thanks very much Anyone else Jack This isn't a question, but I just want to observe we've got two new co-chairs and I've been on the housing task force for a long time and I go to the meetings now there's Tremendous very positive energy the people on the task force are Very knowledgeable and experienced and it's I think things are going as well with the task force as they have gone in Maybe ever and it's a real Contribution to the community So I guess I would just add I mean you did In your memo include some alternate funding mechanisms as well And I'm certainly interested in you know having a conversation about what's the right level of funding You know is 150 thousand 150 thousand and I think the probably the best time to have a conversation is around budget Time but looking forward to to that but then also thinking about these other avenues as well, and I just wanted to put out there that I Would be I'm just gonna you know, obviously just speaking for myself here, but like I would be interested in having a further conversation around You know the gosh it was like one two and Three and four anyway What were they so it was the reinvestment of a percentage of revenue from added value value added due to y'all's investment The second one is reinvesting a percentage of new revenue from Development in general. I think you know that's I think worth the conversation Talking about meals rooms and alcohol attacks, I mean we dedicated that to Infrastructure development, I think this certainly counts so That would be interesting, but especially the one Rosie brought up the the surcharge For homes itself for more than five hundred thousand dollars And if it's really four hundred, you know, whatever the right prices, I think that's that's fine those I Mean, I think those would be that would be a lot to talk about and you know I don't know if we wanted to try to do it would try to focus on one of them I mean it probably makes sense to try to just like do one at a time But I just want you to know that I'm certainly open to to those Great. I mean, did you have something you want to say? Or you can take it out of the stand Also introduce yourself Great presentation, but two things I want to highlight and Jen mentioned the issue of Getting community investment in projects. So We've had some great success in the past few years And you know, there's a lot of factors that play into it But in no small part was the fact that the city was able to utilize the funds from the trust funds who you know French block to happen those kind of projects is an incredibly competitive environment the needs are, you know nationally all over the state So it makes a huge difference having that money available when the time comes to try to do a project like the French watch so Critical funding to have that trust fund and Montpelier has done a great job and there are not a where you know We that's I get to highlight that when I'm asking for money and support and the other thing I really wanted to highlight is the first time home buyer program. It's super popular we administer the program but the quote that that Holly shared just really speaks to it and I'm not sure you know how aware everyone is of the College debt and child care crisis that young families are facing today. It is a huge issue We are now sort of talking I've been speaking to Northbelt Savings Bank and the state Treasure of Elvis that we feel like this could be the next housing crisis coming our way because young families just cannot afford Home ownership and you saw the quote from the from the Harvard group that it's a national problem So having that little extra bit that $7,500 or whatever we decide it's going to be makes a huge difference So I really support the recommendation that the task force made for the hundred fifty thousand dollars And I think even the history you can really feel confident that it will be well spent Any other questions comments also that was I'd like to just tie a thread together. I've asked that the Commission's Council consider voting some real time to broadband planning and its connection But here's the connection is that the affordability of housing is directly tied to your other expenses And if people are going to in my period are going to spend a hundred dollars a month Extracted by Comcast and taken out of state our broadband plan can provide in Circumstances like Down Street one building can be fed with a gigabit circuit and it might cost ten dollars a month to the tenants living there So there's there's planning that you need to be engaged with that can bring the cost of this housing down in more ways than one Thank you. My name is Laura Gephardt and the executive director of the Montpelier Development Corporation So I just wanted to come and speak in support of the housing task force and their request tonight I do want to highlight from the great presentation very thorough presentation and memo that They provided that the vacancy rate is across the board. So we're feeling this tightness in the housing market at all levels And I think it's so wonderful and we're very fortunate to have affordable housing advocates Like Down Street and the people who sit on the housing task force, but I do want to bring attention to a Large majority of the folks who work in Montpelier that still cannot afford to live here or are barely able to afford to live here And it just highlights a really challenging situation that market rate housing is really difficult to build From a private standpoint So I'm encouraged by the continued conversations coming out of the housing task force They look forward to being part of those a little bit more and just bringing Some perspective from the business community as well and some of the challenges that they're facing and attracting future talent How do we do so for the talent that wants to live in proximity to where they work? And for the talent that wants to be living in an engaged community like Montpelier So I just want to keep have you keep that in mind as you consider their request as well The housing task force Thank You Laura other comments Okay, thank you so much Okay, moving on to the proposed parking garage structural design update And I do I understand correctly that you were projecting something also Okay, good By way of backup Thank you I'm gonna put this image up and leave it up There are other images in the package and I'll use those if people have questions When when last we met with the council We talked about the form of the garage the way in which the circulation worked and the council made a selection to go with a Switchback or single helical style of garage. We got a lot of great input from the community Regarding the design of the cladding of this garage and we've been focusing in the last week on on that issue as well as a couple of Critical permit issues the image that's put up here is a view a sort of from about 80 feet in the air looking Looking to the west over the garage towards the proposed Hampton Inn the gray box you can kind of see in the background is The existing capital Plaza the far left-hand side of the screen you can see just a small piece of the one Taylor Street project and Close by it's a little difficult to discern separate from the capital Plaza is the mass of the proposed Apartment building that Christ Church me at some point do The big change here, I think in terms of the floor planning One thing that I do want to point out is that after hearing from the public and and working on this this proposal shows a ground floor that is more or less level and the idea behind that is two-fold one is it helps us advance our our Design issues with the With the floodplain managers, but it also creates some additional utility to this structure that could allow for Alternative uses this ground floor if if a policy ever evolved to to make that possible, and I think it's it's It's an answer to people who had hoped for the whole building to have flat floors It's also sort of strategically in the best possible place because it can act as a continuation of the Haney lot Which as I understand it will continue to host the At least a portion of the farmers market, and so there's a possibility of some creative crossover there The other thing about creating a level ground floor as it allows us to more closely design the structure to comply with section 21 oh one e of the unified development regulations, which is essentially I'm not sure it really applies in this case, but it's a good guideline to go of go by in terms of articulating the structure in more interesting ways So as you look at it one of the things we've changed is we've we've alternated the pattern of solid and green wall systems In order to more closely conform with the regs Any one bay of material is going to be about 42 feet long none of them are longer than that so what you get is you get a solid spaced with a Green piece with another solid with a green piece and from a distance What that will do is give the impression of a collection of smaller buildings and hopefully it goes a long ways towards Making it so that it's not it doesn't read as one big building also as you look at the corner of the structure here where the masonry is you see a sort of clear delineation of the bottom a Strong band at the top of the first floor the sort of shaft and then and then a strong cornice at the top This is also a reflection of the of the LDR is the unified development regs in Montpelier And so we wanted to address that specific concern. It was raised You can also see that we've we've provided a lot more glass into the stair towers So you can kind of see the stairs switching back and forth inside the stair tower And Lastly we've created places as you can see about halfway down the south side there where the there's that big arch Which would be a granite wall and above that we're showing gallery panels for some pretty significant public art Those are paintings. I like they're not necessarily, you know, I think what what I'm hopeful is though that is that a Public process could begin to sort of start thinking about what that art might be a great way to To bring the the citizens of the city back, you know, sort of into the process in a more creative way But we also since this is going to be this side of the building the south side of the garage is going to be facing Confluence Park the new Confluence Park it sort of creates a little more interesting and more lively backdrop to that public event This is not my computer, so I'm not quite sure I'm gonna pop up Exterior elevations. Oh, can I open the other one? Sorry about this is not my computer No, I'm just not that clever when it comes to these things I just want to maximize So here you see it in elevation form, and I think that makes it a much more clear case as far as the alternating patterns of masonry and green grovy stuff With the with the gallery panels and the big stone arch sort of centered on the facade facing south You're seeing the obverse view of that which is the the side facing State Street a little more closed in for a portion of that, but that's that's where we would overlap with a proposed future Apartment building at Christ Church Yeah, it's it those are openings. I'm not sure why that one particular came off as dark But all those large rectangular openings. I I still am advocating for a sort of sculptural effect inside those portals and you know We'll work that out in more detail as we go through the design advisory committee and the development review board But that was an idea that evolved during the first iteration of this garage And I I'm not ready to give it up because I think it's got a potential to be kind of interesting and exciting way to handle that but What this what this facade does do is it does allow us to have enough open space in the garage that we don't have to mechanically ventilate it and it also Goes a long ways towards addressing flood issues And principally, I think it's it's a much better fit With the with the unified development regulations as they're now written.  So where you have those angler Well, they court they correspond with openings on the other side of the building right but in between there's cars Would be stuff inside the garage, you know, I just want to bring up the civil site plan this is a An image of the footprint showing some key features the civil engineering drawings are our under development. I Bring this up to a point out We're maintaining a drive driveway access to the adjacent property. You can also see it I don't know if I can use a cursor So you can see in this area here where we're showing a secondary means of exit from the garage and also access to this adjacent property owner There is a 20-foot setback from the top of bank in this district the plan as presented now is complies with that But the the property line kind of cuts right through here, so We we have set the corner of the building to comply with that regulation even though they're intervening property owner One other thing I want to bring up since it was a very important part of our discussion last time was Hang on a minute. No, if I can figure out how to do this Well, there are multiple sheets in this I believe So I need to go to sheet 11 please bear with me. I'm sorry. I don't know if I'm seeing it Anyhow in the in your application packages There were utility drawings showing our Accommodations to the people at Christchurch. I think there was some concern that because the display materials at our last meeting didn't include that that there was some Dimmunition of our commitment to making that work and I just want to reiterate that We have made plans in the design of these two properties to address stormwater concerns raised by the folks at Christchurch and Vetted by their independent engineers. I know that's continuing concern to the church folks. So I'm going to continue to bring it up This is a more More a drawing of the original The original subdivision the original plan has approved in case anybody wanted to see that This shows a relationship with the top of the garage The parapet at the high point as it as it addresses the Hampton index door So you can see that the top of the garage extends up to about the floor level of the fourth floor of the garage except for this little bit of a tower here on the On the end which is is as tall as it is because there's an elevator inside there that needs to go to the top level and So I Know that that also shows pretty well So can I ask a question about that drawing that makes it look like? There really isn't a pedestrian walkway between the garage and the Hampton Inn Has that changed now to the other side or is there still intended to be a there will be a there will be a If sorry, I'm trying to do things at once There will be a ten-foot space between those buildings with an imaginary property line between them at a five feet off of each each structure You know the the illustrations are sort of Artistic conception and doesn't show that space as wide as it should be but I think I don't know why that is but The working drawing show that space We are still contemplating some kind of pedestrian access via the Haney lot to the rear portion of the site and and those details will emerge as we go through development review this This view in particular was was created to help show That relationship with the overlap of the garage Even though they're close together that overlap is fairly short Because this portion of the hotel is narrower than the rest of the building So from here on down to the remaining corner That's all open and in the latest version of this we've included some green screen facing westward towards the state the Taylor Street Entrance of the project and this also shows the degree to which the facade is is notched out There's a fairly significant break in Plane there and then the the individual planes are sort of going back and forth as well so Lots of improvements in the in the sort of fine-grain detailing of the of the garage as as Been our primary focus since we last met with you the engineering drawings are proceeding a pace and Major application package will be submitted to the city tomorrow morning reflecting these changes In it with any comments that members of the council the public may may have this evening So that's the broad overview and then I'd like to set myself up for questions. Thank you. All right, Jack Go ahead while we have this picture on Is is there am I seeing a wall on the ground there sort of if they at the left of the picture we have the Railroad tracks and then Parallel to that over to the right a little bit. It looks like a wall is that a retaining what it is Yeah, because the grade is higher at the Parking garage level what we are proposing is the project site will drop in volume by about four feet That's going to do several things for us. It's going to allow the South wall of the garage to be remained open for flood flows It also sort of takes the balance of this site and kind of puts it all down at the Hainey lot level so that the pedestrian features can work together and Most importantly That's volume that we need for the floodplain management to work in this part of town I think I everybody should know as I mentioned at the last hearing our goal here is when this project is done to have No net increase in the amount of Lost or no lost volume of storage capacity Relative to flooding and so what you're seeing is is yeah that we would drop grade in and around the building to expose more of it to open up the ground floor facade to Right for those flood flows and to create a volume of storage compensates for the balance of the development Thanks So I would oh Sorry, I think this is going to be a quick one on the same drawing I'm curious about Just how the green walls work. This is something that was pointed out to me after the last Presentation that that the green walls in these renderings don't go all the way to the ground. So it looks like they must be Rooted in planter structures or something like that, especially on that. What would that be that the east wall? Well, I don't know if you know this If you look at the south side, you'll see that those do come down to grade the Ideally these will be planted in in soil around the building and they'll train up to grow on it This north side The rendering was a little quick, but I think what what we What we haven't illustrated yet is there's there needs to be a green buffer at the bottom of that wall For for those things to be planted in They can grow up the security grate that we have below on that side of the building I think in the hurry to get the rendering out today though We just we stopped landscaping at like three o'clock sure sure, but but the idea is generally that they would be rooted in the in the ground Yes, yeah, and we're these these would not be There are some living wall systems where there are like little buckets of soil and and watering systems and things Those are generally that's not what we're trying to do here Well, we're doing is kind of a robust trellis and we're looking for more native plants to grow from Ground level up. Sorry. Are you talking about this portion as well here? Yeah, I guess I'm I'm a little worried about that because I there is part of me that likes the option of having that be open And just like visually having it be sort of a part of that Anyway, I just want to have mixed feelings about that. I think the reason I'm Like you maybe like the idea of it being open is that Potentially, you know farmers market could move under there on a rainy day or that kind of you know, it kind of maybe has some interesting Like you're talking about with the flat floor. And so then if there's not a way to get in there if it's all covered with vines Then that precludes that option. I'm wondering just about like can we have one section of it be some sort of interesting rod-iron gate or something that could be opened up and then the rest of it is Vines sure I you know, and I think those are the kinds of things that we'll sort out as we go through the design review process Pedestrian accesses will be facing State Street both both up adjacent to the hotel and also down at the other end of the project Say you're on the east end Early on in the project when we started talking about the parking garage amongst the various city departments we talked to with also the police department and And you know one of the things we want to do in terms of a safety thing is sort of sort of have control over entrance and egress so that you know People can use the garage of confidence and they you know It just creates a more secure environment to sort of control where people come and go from but yeah I I don't think the entire length of that green screen has to have Soil underneath it for it to take off But we have to have significant enough beds that they can get up there once they climb up the building they'll spread Wherever they can so and before you go down. I just want to jump on that I'm glad that you mentioned police review because that's something that I'd also come up in conversation After the last presentation was just making sure that you know the the police have had adequate You know time to review and and gave their input into what they think is safe We've met with them on several occasions In service of the original project Okay, I think that the values of the issues that we talked about then will remain in place We are talking about some form of video surveillance inside the garage and around its perimeter and we I also mentioned the availability of emergency phones or Intercoms on each level. Okay, and they have looked at these drawings and the fire department have looked at these drawings once And they will look at them again. Okay. Thank you design review Donna Two or three points one. I'm really impressed that you took all the suggestions or so many and came out with something that looks really reasonable I actually like that arch where you put it and the art above it. I Don't like that. You kept the towers flat, but So maybe they could be an arch too Okay, but also the conversation you're having about the opening one of the pictures You gave us last time in the smaller packet that had the cover letter It showed the rooted plants like every car link. So it wasn't the whole thing So you still had room for cars and people So this makes it more feasible to have a pretty open but yet still closed I'll incorporate that thinking into the east elevation as we move forward Also, I want to come back to Glenn. I feel like I interrupted you. Did you have any anything else? Okay, okay I just want to add a couple things I love that you have an archway in there and you know coming back to a Glenn's comment the last meeting I like that it is it seems structural, right? At least I like the archway too. It looks great. Yes I have a question Yeah You'll see there's a sort of a wrought iron fence That's about seven feet tall around the ground floor on the back sides. Okay. I love the windows in the stairwells and up at the top of the parapets there and I think the art is great and I like that. There's more like sort of detailed moldings. I think that's really nice It's just it's it it says Like that's it's an interesting building like I really like it So thank you. Thank you other comments Rosie I had a couple I'm a Little bit worse. So this retaining wall on the railroad track is a new thing, right? It is. Okay. Well there Let me back up and say Throughout the process of the original Hampton M project and the original director to garage design There were always walls in the backs of these buildings, but this this approach this sort of carving into the land is new So I just want to make sure we're really thoughtful about making sure that that doesn't impede Pedestrian access to the park and that we do have good access points in spite of that wall And that you know, maybe it's there's some I Think there are opportunities, but I want to make sure we don't forget that can I comment on that? Yeah, I'm I was actually Glad to see that there was a wall there because I think technically people can't cross railroads anyway Yes, right. So this is actually right. He's so we put them where we want them to cross the road. Okay Yeah, that feels okay to me. Anyway, sorry continue and Then so we are supposed to have an ADA accessible access to the bike path and I'm very confused now about where that's going Yeah, I Don't have it. I don't have a finished drawing illustrating exactly how that's going to work yet, but it's it's It's an issue that's arisen out of this whole stormwater thing. So we're working on that The bike path sort of this little triangle of green space you see here by the arch Just about where it says type here to search is where the bike path kind of comes around and we'll have to ramp up to that somehow Because because we need to solve this volume problem So is the thinking now that that just that comes through the Heaney lot Sorry that comes through the Heaney lot. That's the thinking now. Yes. I think we Based on the opportunity and the suggestion that's brought up. I think that it's sort of a both and situation I think we'll want to continue to have some kind of access from the hotel To that and I think we also want to provide a similar facility coming through the Okay, even if it ends up just being green stripes on the pavement We do want to make those connections back through And then the last question I have is about lighting and we didn't talk about that at all last time Okay, I want to make sure that we're really thoughtful about that because I think that can really make the difference in How safe people feel and also in how the whole building fits in around to the The buildings around it so I don't know if you've got thoughts on that already or if that's to be decided and I was just gonna try to find a so That's One thing we've been talking about right along is we want to use LED lighting everywhere. We can Because we would like to be able to Sort of get this to a status of net zero in terms of energy use This would be the typical ceiling mounted light It's that's pretty big in diameter, but we've got this kind of curvy theme happening in the elevations I guess I'm thinking more about exterior lighting so Okay, and then I show that because it comes with a I don't think that's gonna be the right one. Okay, here we go It corresponds to a matching Site light so that the lights on the top of the structure would be this out along the driveways and stuff were Previous approval showed a more traditional Gas light looking fixture with an LED cut with LED guts And so for the the surface driving areas in through the hotel projects and stuff We're gonna continue that but inside the garage at the top floor of the garage and see something like this and are these ones that'll reduce the Light pollution that'll just be directed downward. They're full cut-off fixtures and and they're also I'm completely LED so very energy efficient and dark sky They'll meet the dark sky requirement for this for this type of zone. Okay, great Great, Ashley Did we ever resolve the issues that Christ Church raised at the last meeting? well, I Think it was a concern mostly born out of The sense that they maybe hadn't they were looking at new drawings and they weren't seeing in our earlier conversations reflected And that's why I I was trying to bring my copy of C5, which I know I have printed out large scale. I don't see it on the thumb drive. Unfortunately but Our engineering package has always included I Just gonna hold this up This is a civil engineering drawing C5 from the hotel project And it shows the improvements that were proposed to make that Christ Church people Which included careful grading analysis Some kind of drop-in led structure and a pathway to get to the main sewer system and some secondary yard drain It's just to protect the memorial garden from flooding Our engineers worked through that designed it and then the church had engineering ventures of Burlington review and comment on the original design and changes were made so All all of the output of that process remains in place And I think just because you were seeing preliminary drawings, they didn't have every catch-base drawn on it but I but I Those those items are still defined in our work and we'll still be a part of this As far as the setback issue goes I think that's something we'll take up at the development review board level But we are maintaining a green buffer space on the north side of the garage It may not be exactly what the previous iteration of the application showed But it is still a major concession in a no setback district. I I Think there's ample opportunity for them to continue their plans to develop their property in a way that will work with this project and You know we continue when we do visual analysis and stuff. We continue to show their their building as a placeholder I don't know if they'll ever get happy, but I can say that we've we've kept our commitments thus far and we haven't been We haven't retreated from any of the major Elements that were necessary for this to work. Yeah, if I can just add to that Actually, we've met with them several times and we continue to meet with them and we've taken the MOU that they Had made a lot of progress with the bicheras and we're working through those issues on Eight out of ten of them were in complete agreement and we continue to work on the couple that we're just still working on But we meet with them regularly Thank you Donna We had the C4, but we didn't have the C5. Could you get us what hey Donna? Can you speak into your yes? Thank you. It's on this side We have C4 in our packet from last week, but we don't have C5 and that would show us more clearly what you're talking about Is the church potential housing sit sitting? Can you get that to us or the latest revision? Of course Of course and and bear in mind C5 is in the public record already It's part of the record drawings. So it would be in the website Well, it would be in it would be in the packages for the original Hampton in and suites application and approvals But but I'm happy to resubmit it as part of this application That'd be helpful. Yeah, I don't know why it didn't end up on the thumb drive I guess that's that's me in a hurry to get out of the office So, I just want to check in any further comments from counselors and then we'll go to the public. Yeah, sorry just one more So there aren't windows in the midsection on this one Aren't windows here, right? Is there what's the reason for that? That was me being architect. He I guess let me Because the elevators on the other side, right? So that's not it's on the opposite corner of the building, right? so She's she's referring to this blank section of wall here And it was okay. I don't have a strong feeling I just was it was meant to put some ground space between this big panel of Windows and this sculptural element here There's a bit of texture there that you can't see in the you know in an LED projector that Is the part of that masonry forms columns on the corners, and then there's a little bit of a recess there Okay, and there's some interesting bonding going on in the brick too. We're showing a Flemish bond which is a little more interesting So we've done some things here that don't that aren't readable But that was that was intended to to sort of space those two elements up great Okay further questions from counselors Okay, any comments from the public Are you walking forward to comment? It's okay We continue to cut corners here I learned today that the Driving force causing these corners to be cut is this supposedly Secret document a threat from Hilton to withdraw the franchise if we don't start building if Bashar doesn't start building this year I'm told that's not available to public in my Frame of reference anybody who's asking for public assistance which Bashar is doing is required to disclose some of their privacy details a Document proving that Hilton is not willing to extend this franchise in the next year should be demanded by the council Otherwise we're cutting corners for no good reason at all So if I may comment on that I mean we work with Whitenberg and they're a third party And so they've been a great a great go-between for us carry on I'm still asking for the proper response if somebody's going to claim an exam or even give me a redacted version Maybe the numbers of the lease fees License fees are redacted, but the threat to cancel the franchise. I'd like to see that in writing A casualty of this Among many that I'm talking to is faith and trust in government if we're barreling along it seems like the council and some business leaders have made up their mind and You know, we're gonna duck and run like this was Kavanaugh And y'all were Republicans, so they take that for what it's worth The garage economics are Absolutely Flawed we applied into a tiff plan for this district and I have confirmed that the Cost of maintenance of the green wall are not factored in the air-conditioned room for the servers the video equipment is not factored in there's a lot of The expenses of running this garage could be two to three or four or five times what they've been estimated at so and As I understand it the Bashar agreement is Structured so he's got a fixed cost which means the overage of operations and maintenance Last week my brother was here from Santa Monica and they have six of these Garages in Santa Monica and the cost the necessity from all the brake dust in the rubbed-off tire rubber Chokes any plants and they require a weekly or bi-weekly power washing those costs are not built into our Into our estimates here Similarly I heard about the maintenance of the drains the drains and filter system for the stormwater Getting some real numbers of the cost of that maintenance and the frequency of it is essential The renderings they really misrepresent what here this this is new that we're gonna have a Fortress wall whereas last week we were gonna have exit from the garage out to the park And now we're told that you're not gonna have an exit out the back of the garage to go to the park You're gonna hit a retaining wall This doesn't show the railroad bridge the railroad bridge extends 2040 feet into where this footprint is I just walked over there during your meeting and walked over to measures to pace off 20 feet it's literally 19 or 20 feet to the river at this corner, but We're moving too fast. We don't have our economics right. We don't have our planning right We're trying to design aesthetics by committee and it's just reckless There's no traffic study. I'm told that by our assistant city manager that we've contracted for one now but those take considerable amount of time to do when prior parking studies that I've looked at Indicate two or three turnovers a day and if we have three hundred spaces that are going to turn over two or three hundred times Two or three times we've got 1200 cars a day coming in and out of this driveway. That's not going to be a quick traffic study I understand that state employees stay longer in hotel or off-clock Conflict with prior plans. We have a Montpelier 2030 Sustainability design sure had that came out with a great vision and true it hasn't been Fully adopted by the powers that be but it runs directly in conflict with this Size of a building and this location. So you're basically going to saddle and preclude a real confluence part the twenty two thousand Riverfront Park Talked about not putting the parking up against the river and open space and performance space And you're going to foreclose those opportunities if you just keep barreling down this road We need to get our Alternative our rail and satellite parking plans done first before we determine whether we really have a need for this Big of a parking structure in this location Many people come to Montpelier because they like Montpelier The way it is not because they want to park in a garage to get to the stores You know street parking is part of the charm of Montpelier and I think the biggest risk is that the traffic created by this It's going to necessitate Turning the Haney lot into a street and putting a stoplight out at Elm because we didn't factor in that this Driveway from Taylor to the Northfield saving banks cannot handle the load attract so I think I'm happy to elaborate at another time, but I think I made myself loud Thank You, Steve other comments from the public Okay. Thank you I'm gonna move on. Thank you so much. Thank you for your time. Yeah, if I if I may I'm actually I'm I'm looking at the public records rules and the state law and title one and Here there is a public-private partnership And there's some benefit derived by a governmental entity It kind of does seem like that agreement might actually be subject to disclosure if have we received a request at all for that or For the agreed for the development agreement because the city is going to be using tiff to Sorry the agreement between the Hilton Hilton and the Bechara's Well, I think I mean so the the only way that's gonna happen is if the parking garage happens, right? Is that? Right, right? So I think that it's sort of almost by default becomes part of a government Project because the only way it's gonna happen is if the government acts So, I mean, I think it's something that we can talk with the Whitenberg about and Bechara's and go from there I mean it it just it just strikes me that if the if the the Representation has been and I have no reason to doubt that it's just it seems like if that's one of the questions that is being asked like I Would just say that it's a city garage. It's built by the city. It's owned by the city It's paid for by the city the Bechara's will be leasing 200 spaces at the same rate that pretty much everybody else will be renting them at for 30 years So it's not quite as clear-cut perhaps as Steven makes it sound no And I'm not saying that it is clear cut But it it seems that there would be at least a colorable argument that you could make and I know that you know The way that our statutes are drafted and there's not much case law on the FOIA Sort of like how this works with public-private partnerships, and I know it's an ongoing issue Where we're contracting and subcontracting state business or other governmental services but it it does seem as though it may be something that is Subject to disclosure at least in part where particularly maybe the part with regard to well if this doesn't happen then By this date then this won't happen I think it's worth asking Thank you Okay, moving on any other further comments Okay Great, so we are moving on to thank you again. Thank you And there will be other just so actually as we were moving on there will be other further opportunities for the public to weigh in If I'm not mistaken, right, you know I design review Meetings at least to design advisory committee meetings to develop and review meetings at a minimum by legal requirement Yeah, and there may be more if if people raise substantive issues great. Thank you. Thanks everybody Okay, so moving on to the Parklet Ordnate Amendments So we have we've got parks commission. Oh, I'm sorry. Why did I think the parks? So patiently To two minute break, okay, two minute break and then we'll jump in with the parks commission Okay, so we are up to the parks commission. So we want to welcome the parks commission up to the front here And I know Rosie you have done a lot of thinking and work around this so I may turn this over to you If you're okay No, no rush So I think that we had had a lot of miscommunication with the parks commission and You know, we thought we were communicating to you And maybe you thought you were communicating to us and we set some goals around parks And maybe you have some goals that we don't know about and so We had a really great tour a bunch of us. I think not the whole council had a nice tour a month ago of Hubbard Park and then also some other spots around the city and that was a really great start to kind of hear where You're focusing some of your efforts. So we just kind of wanted to invite you here today to open up some of the lines of communication Hear what your thoughts are how we can best communicate with you and how you would like to communicate with us We have a couple Potential new ideas and projects coming down the pike on our Consent agenda tonight was the purchase of a new piece of land and I know that some of the Preliminary thoughts on that where parts of that might be parkland and so wanting to get you involved in that early on and one of the council's goals that we had set this year was to Get a park on the the south side of the river the other side of the river And so when we had that tour we started talking a little bit about that So this is sort of meant to be an open conversation and love to hear your feedback and what your thoughts are and just kind of Start that conversation Great. Well, thanks for having us. I guess I'll go ahead and start us out But I'll introduce myself and most of you know me or at least have seen me at this point, but I'm Dan Dickerson I'm Dan Dickerson and I'm a member of the parks commission and I'll go ahead and have These two introduce themselves before I go on My name is Fabian Patterson, I'm also a commissioner in Bill Johnson also on the commission So I just want to say, you know, thanks a lot for having us I think, you know, this is a great opportunity to open a dialogue that you know, frankly has been missing at least In the few years that I've well, I don't even think it's that yet The time the limited time that I've been on the commission There hasn't been much dialogue between the commission and the city council aside from and I want to thank Councilman bait. She's actually taken a lot of her time to attend our meetings and and she has provided some sort of valuable I guess city council person perspective to us, which has been really helpful But I I think I want to I Wouldn't lead it off by saying that, you know, we We in fits and starts we've sort of tried to take some initiative on, you know, coming up with You know a strategic plan that builds on What what is already contained within the green print? So we have this park screen print document that basically, you know, it's it's really looking more towards expansion of the parks and a creation of recreation trails, but it also sort of Touches on, you know, preserving existing spaces, but not in a tremendous amount of detail And I think what what I would like to do and I think what other commissioners like to do It would be, you know, in the vein of what the city council does is says, you know Here goals for this year how they correspond with, you know, the broader goals of our our green print, you know What the cost is or or what we need to put together for resources the staff time in order to do these things and then Sort of key our budget off that, you know, I mean Our budget currently is is really sort of an ugly spreadsheet that shows, you know, salaries FICA health insurance equipment So it'd be really great. I think for us and for, you know, you and the residents of Montpelier to see, you know our our vision for a given year that shows these are the projects that we want to accomplish and You know, here's the cost This will be a part of our greater budget and you know, so people can envision that. Wow, you know, they're going to improve The Gateway Park or they're going to, you know, redo a trail in Hubbard Park and so that's I won't say that We've gotten there yet, but that's sort of what we want to work on and I think I think our our FY 20 budget request will We'll sort of have some of that spirit. I think going into the following year. I think we really wanted to take this process forward and and Hopefully it will What we want will align with the city council that would be very helpful But I I do think that You know, it would be nice to hear more from you about, you know, what you want, you know, obviously I mean as an elected body, we have some autonomy, but in the end, you know, you control the purse strings You write the ordinances. So we're you know, to some extent we're subservient to to what you really want and hopefully we can all agree and and You know communicate those things, but I sort of wanted to I guess lay out the reality But you know, I would like to hear more about what you're envisioning and you know We can certainly have a conversation about it, you know amongst ourselves when we have our meetings Sorry So I just wanted to say I'm so so glad you're here. I'm glad that we're having this conversation Yeah, especially with having goals that overlap I think it Makes sense that we're here and in fact it seems a little overdue, you know, one of the things that I thought was interesting from the Memo that we got That included some language from our lawyer I found it really helpful to think of the parks commission sort of the same way that people Might think about the the school board that it is a separately elected, you know Body that has this jurisdiction and and that it's in a certain sense like kind of parallel and That that was just a helpful framework for me But I think because you know because we are the sort of the financial body You know having closer interactions or more even like scheduled Interactions, I think makes sense and one of the things that I'm hoping to do with our next goals Setting session, which would probably be roughly next April would you know, so well let me back up This last April we included department heads as a part of the conversation of setting goals But I think it also makes sense to Include not only you all you know in our goals setting process, but other committees as well And not that other committees are the same sort of standings, but but just getting Just all the stakeholders in the room, you know having all the interests represented and you know I'm actually going to that planning commission meeting where So many different groups were there to say what their goals were that was so enlightening and I wish that we had done that sooner, so Other thoughts comments So I guess there were a few key areas that I'd like to at least start the conversation on tonight One of them is the areas of responsibility, you know, what what are you gonna do? And what are we gonna do especially in terms of developing these new parks? and then I Think there's been some confusion about who Overseas the park staff And so that might be just an area for us to clarify If you feel that the parks commission is Currently directing the park staff. There's some confusion about Who's giving them priorities and so we should clarify that because it's certainly got to be confusing from their end If they're hearing from different bosses and also confusing if they're not hearing from any bosses, so So talking about that and then as we've kind of alluded to those goals and priorities Which sounds like that should be a longer-term conversation when we do goal setting and when when you have Come up with that strategic plan. So I don't know if any of those sound Sure, I can I can take a stab at that So I think to respond to your first question which dealt with you know, these The responsibilities of the parks commission as opposed to or not as opposed to but And then the responsibilities of the city council. So using confluence park as an example You know, there's a piece of land the city owns it You know in my eyes and I think you know in in Paul Giuliani's eyes The parks commission can't say this is park, you know, that's that's up to you And that's what you did a few meetings ago Although I you know, it's still be nice to see sort of what the ultimate boundaries of the park will be But I doubt that will happen until the buildings there and the bike path is there But then you know the way I see it and I think the way his email sees it is from that point on You know, once you've declared this space a park It falls under our responsibility to to construct the park to maintain the park and control the park and so You know, like I said before you hold the purse string So there's not a whole lot we can do without the money, but you know on on paper and in the In the charter that those responsibilities for for maintenance and upkeep fall to us And and that's what we happily do because it's you know, it's a really exciting space to have a new park I think on your on your second question As far as staffing, you know, we had a conversation about that We actually just had a special meeting last night to sort of set budget priorities, but You know the way The way it was laid out to us From park staff and you know, I mean I fully agree is you know, they're ultimately They fall under, you know bill Frazier and and Sue Allen's control So they're you know, I mean if we tell them to do something there's there's so far They can go before they have to say, you know, no we value our jobs And so then it fall, you know, if it's something that you know is directly conflicting You know a priority for us then it's up to the parks commission as an elected body to really push back To bill Frazier or to the city council or or sue to say, you know, this is really what we want You know, and then we would have that conversation, you know diplomatically of course, but I you know I think that's the way I see it. I don't Hopefully you agree So it sounds like what you're proposing is that or the practice is that you would be communicating with bill About what your priorities are and then having him communicate further to park staff about accomplishing those Is that I think I think really Primarily, yeah, Jeff and Alec communicate with bill, you know when it comes to the budget process We we work with them to to figure out what funding we want and then, you know, Jeff takes that to You know to the the staff meeting that they have within City Hall I don't know what that entails, but we've we've never or at least my knowledge. We've never been a part of that process I don't know that, you know, I would I would want to I feel like that's sort of an administrative action that We probably should insert ourselves into but you know, if You know just continue on the on the budget subject, you know, if we really wanted money for something and and bill Frazier wasn't willing to To give the funding for that or at least propose the funding to that to the city council Then I think, you know, we would have the power to come to the city council and say hey We really want this. This is the reason why and and you know lay out our our cause and you know It's still ultimately up to you to make the decision That would go on the the city ballot And I realized I missed another thing on here was communication which we've kind of alluded to a little bit but How would you prefer and we've done these kind of letters back and forth occasionally and I that feels not the most productive So I might want to set some You know, what how would you like us to communicate with you and how should you communicate with us? one of the one of the things that we just actually talked about yesterday and To increase communication and we would like to actually increase our visibility in our presence And our connection with everyone so that as the projects develop they would be it'd be a lot easier to develop them jointly We would be more Involved with you guys. I think so that the whole process I think being Would be clearer and I think easier and so if we're more visible and that many clues like to the public We were talking about our website We talked about you know, just to so people know continue to educate people to so that they know who we are and how So come back a work in progress Up until now there there really has been Very little communication between the council and the commission An example would be when you set your goals for parks We weren't part of that discussion and and I think that that has to change personally somehow we need to be at the table when issues having to do with the management and maintenance of the parks are at issue and That really hasn't been the case and I actually talked to a couple of you about it So I'm glad we have this opportunity today to talk about it and and hopefully work toward this We could have liaisons that talk back and forth I think primarily we do need to Deal with because the other part of the puzzle that we haven't talked about too much is is the manager's position and then the manager has considerable amount of power in the city and We just need The communication not to be just between the council and the commission But also the manager's office and there there has to be some sort of flow now exactly how did we accomplish that? I'm not saying that I have any Tremendous idea other than If it's a park issue Let us know we would be happy to talk with with Sue and Bill and and or you And we can move forward from there. It is a sort of an awkward position as people on the council have mentioned and It's the result of what John Hubbard Wanted he this is what It can be changed, but that's what he put in his bequest and then that's where we're at right now so at least until an ordinance changes that that Changes our relationship We just need to communicate better So if I may jump in there, so we You know we did just talk about goals and having you be a part of our goals Setting schedule really And I wonder if that Schedule aligns with your goal setting schedule like I don't know when roughly you like if that would align Because if you had goals that you wanted to accomplish I would I mean I want you to feel free to say like here are the things that we would like to do and then I mean our our Goals setting and and then our budget is is often a little funny, right because we set goals in April for the year, but then You know some like kicking in in July is the next fiscal year, right? So And even now like in November, we're gonna be starting to talk about Budgeting for goals that we haven't even really made yet, which is a little weird So that's that's sort of an inherent Quirk of of our system, but that seems like the other area of overlap right is is the budget and so I mean I could picture like if you all had I mean you're you're tasked with like the control and maintenance of the parks and there's a third thing which I can't remember off the top of my head, but But in any case if with any of those things, you know, I mean, I'm sure You know Jeff and Alec come up with a budget, but if there are other things that you wanted in I'm sure probably they they consult you on that as well But if you wanted to be a like if we wanted to set that off You know to highlight it right that this is coming from a really like a separate body You know, I wouldn't mind calling it out as as its own thing And giving you all a chance to speak specifically during our budget session I mean, what do you think about that there Rosie? Maybe okay? I mean, we're all just we're spitballing this right now like so. I mean it's If if Jeff and Alec if that sounds okay or interesting to you great if not like let's keep talking about it but I think especially since you know, we want to honor that that you know, you all that you have a specific charge and And the overlap there is with the budget that that that feels like a way to honor, you know, that that parallel Entity Ness. Yeah The other thing I've been thinking about is, you know Since Donna has been going to some of your meetings. I wonder if we should actually a point a Council representative or a council liaison To kind of be your point of contact on the council So that if you have an item that you want to draw our attention to you have some Rather than trying to contact all of us You've got one person that you know, you can have an you know Go to and have an informal discussion with or who you can ask to come to your meetings or that kind of thing I don't know if that makes sense to others. Well as this conversation was going on one of the things I was struck by was that We have a whole lot of boards and commissions and committees in the city and most of them We have council members appointed to serve on those boards and commissions and For institutional reasons, you know the council could not appoint somebody to be on the parks commission But it certainly leaves a gap an institutional gap in terms of Communication and everything else and so I think formalizing it by Appointing a liaison would be a useful thing. I Think that's something that we would certainly be amenable to and you know, we would be happy to do the same so that we have a Point person for you You know when when issues come up dealing with the parks I know, you know a few meetings go when I was here and and I think we were talking about Canines but you know the which hopefully that won't go any further tonight, but But you know that I think several counselors, you know stated that they were getting emails with with complaints about You know canine issues that were that were potentially happening in the park So I can't recall the the conversation precisely and that really Concerned me because we weren't getting those communications And and I think to some extent, you know, maybe I think we do need to put ourselves out there more and make it clear that You know when there are issues in the parks, please contact the parks commission So that the city residents know that but I think also, you know having a liaison from the parks commission that you as City counselors can contact when issues come up I think would be really helpful and I think we could certainly do that and we would happy We would happily have a representative from the city council, you know attend our meetings Or you know just stay in touch with us to let us know what's going on So what you're saying is that if we get emails Complaints about canine issues in the park in the park Yes, yes, we we do want to know those things because I mean actually yeah, you know And I guess I'll I'll be a dead horse a little bit more although talking about canines is eating up so much for a time, but you know, I think On this issue specifically, I mean we we really haven't gotten much You know negative feedback on on the continued, you know Freedom that people have to walk their dogs off leash and so from in our eyes, you know, it's in you know We weren't we weren't trying to sort of contradict what the city council's concerns were it was really, you know We're not getting communications that that people are having issues So yes, if if you get, you know canine completes or cat complaints or bear complaints in the parks Please please let us know and and we'll do what we what we can to solve it And you know Jeff and Alec work hard in the parks every day and and you know Will help and they'll help and we'll come to resolution. Okay? Thank you so much Connor and then I would love to I think we're wrapping this up. It seems like yeah I was hoping to get the party started Appropriate to make a motion to Appoint Donna as the liaison not member of the parks commission Yeah, is there a second I would second that okay, how do you feel about that Donna? Okay And you all are okay with that Okay, great All in favor, please say aye. I opposed great. Thank you. Thank you all And I I had one final thing that I just wanted to know was on your radar I noted the that Morse farm is no longer doing cross-country skiing this winter, which is very sad But I am expecting that that's gonna increase the cross-country ski pressure on the parks trails that are maintained for that And so I'm just hoping and I this is a hope for me But I don't know if others feel that that you're thinking about that and thinking how you're gonna manage that Yeah, I one of us brought that up at I don't think it was this I don't think it was yesterday But it was the couple weeks ago, but you know, yeah, that's I think we're gonna have a An in-depth conversation about you know, where can we improve our our capacity? and You know whether it whether requires you improving some trails to make it You know gentler for cross-country skiing or whatnot, but but yeah We're definitely gonna have that conversation because it I mean it saddened me to read that ret article that you know I can no longer ski there But it's it's on a radar anybody else Anybody from the public and we will keep you posted. Okay All right, well, thank you so much Okay, and now we're on to the park that ordinance as I was mistakenly jumping to earlier so this is an amendment to an existing ordinance and One possibility is that we can sort of look at it section by section another possibility is that if if counselors have specific concerns or objections You know, we can just go right to those sections and then we'll take comments from the public So I guess my inclination would be to say Well, I'm literally just back up and say I'm gonna assume that you all read it That's thing number one thing number two is Did anybody have specific concerns suggestions changes they want to make you know, whatever it's all good Yes, actually, I guess the only thing that stood out to me in the revised draft is on Can't tell if it's page. Yes. It's page three It is in the second to last full paragraph and the Strigthru or may was substituted with and otherwise must be open to the general public The only thing I fear that that may trigger some additional insurance liabilities or other things I don't think that any of the parklets are closed At all, but if it's a city requirement and something happens in a park lit Mmm, it just seems like there may be I don't practice that kind of law for a good reason, but it just seems like something that may be problematic We do require and a fairly large insurance Certificate It's somewhere else in here It's like a million dollars or something That's that's fair, maybe they'd have to build that into you know, there's Whatever statements they have going to their insurance Company though and the other question. I'm assuming that the expectation is that the businesses will assume the cost of the signage and that same paragraph I Think I mean just speaking for myself. I think probably both of those things are reasonable as long as we just tell people up front that like We expect you to include this in your insurance. It's probably not gonna be lots more. I guess and And And that they have to include a sign. I mean, they're gonna be if they're building a new park that anyway They've got to that signage stuff factor in with the zoning requirements because they thought there couldn't be any signs any permanent signs of fixed the Planning department Audra does walk over and go through signs with the parklet owners and they have to pass Certain standards to be used, right? Well, but this is now requiring they these these signs shall Be there they would have to comply But if what I think though, I guess what I'm saying is though my recollection although I haven't looked at it recently is that there was a prohibition on permanent signage on parklets We didn't do that we talked about doing it and I was voted down so there's no prohibition on Remember cuz I lost that one While we're in that paragraph I have a little language quirk The second sentence parklets may only be restricted to use by patrons of a particular establishment and so on I would move that only So that it says parklets may be restricted to use by patrons of a particular bit Only during their operating hours. Does that make sense to people? Parklets may be restricted to use To use by patrons of a particular establishment or group of carpentry business only during their operating hours Because that's what the only refers to I believe It's Fine with me. What do you think? Yeah, okay, and there was something else Could you get on your mic a little bit a little more? Yes, I'm sorry. Thank you And I've already forgotten what the other thing was so pass on okay other thoughts Did you open the public hearing? That's what it was I forgot this is a public hearing We'll officially open this as a public hearing. I mean we'll take comments from the public shortly, so But yes officially open. Thank you Forgot that part Any other comments from counselors at this point Go ahead Jack well one question I have is that There's one parklet that is Not develop pursuant to this ordinance and I just think we need to at some point Determine what exactly the legal status is does do they have a permit for a Fixed period of time just all of that so that once we do this everyone's on the same footing so Just to clarify my understanding is that They are grandfathered in like their permit was for three years And so once that runs out, they'll have to if they wanted to keep it They'd have to reapply under these rules three years though. Sorry Well, um, yes Has it been three years or positive five? So they would they might have to So Right, yes, I think that's true Unless I'm wrong and then someone can tell me that I'm wrong later But I think that's that's true, but I'm thinking of you know the one on Langdon Street Obviously more than two spots, right? So that one's I'm gonna be harder to modify but three years, you know, well, and then we'll they'll have to you know comply with this Just something go ahead So I have the your sign answer is the following sign do not require zoning permits. This is 3012d Public signs or notices erected or required by the city or state within the public right away So Public notice required by the city within the right away, so it would be an exempt sign Good evening Richard chair Everyone on council knows that my wife runs the downtown business many of you watching on orca no save I'll just come to the question basically of the parklet itself and its role in the street and The commerce that goes on that street. We just got out of an extensive session on parking public parking And this is parking as well Parking for gone and the real question becomes Is the council choosing winners and losers and now My wife has gone through this with this council the council before and the council before that on the question of parklets And she's finally come around to some degree to say that the parklet when the city has ample other parking That the parklet really does exist and can it can coexist with the neighboring merchants But the premise of the parking garage was a parking survey that showed that parking in the street particularly state street Was parked out during the day it was maxed out those two parking spaces would be used by customers Perhaps a positive pie perhaps some other businesses. They do have a meeting If you talk about the parklet in May, that's fine June. That's fine July. That's fine August That's 13 weeks before you start to need that parking when leave season starts What she doesn't understand and I don't understand is Why one business should have proximate parking to their project during the entire of leave season when all of the businesses Need that parking Now were she here tonight? She would say let's make this a summer project and take it down after Labor Day Now one of you on console who I will not reveal had said Let's compromise this to October 1st, which is halfway through leave season One business can have those two parking spaces Exclusively for the first half of leave season the other 22 businesses can have those parking spaces for the second half of leave season realizing that after October 1st Very few people are sitting in that because weather is not conducive to sitting outside And let's not forget that both of those partners one of them, but both of them have sidewalk Dining it's not as if if you took this away. They would all of a sudden not be able to treat their customers to the outdoor experience So what I'm saying is about a month ago Maybe a month and some change she wrote to you about the question of the end date I didn't hear any of you in a discussion of the end date Two things one is the business community's opinion taken seriously on this. That's the first and then second Can you guys state a reason why? October 1st wouldn't be a good time to bring those things down and go back to full parking for the second part of Leave season. Is there a coherent reason? Why those things have to stay up when the weather is down in the 40s and 50s? I'll listen I'll take mine off the air So, I mean I I guess I would just advocate that Should the weather be nice? I mean the more opportunities to sit outside. I think the better I think it is weather dependent and you know for sure if the weather is you know Unpleasant enough that people don't want to be sitting outside October 1st then fair enough my understanding was To that you know, we want to give people as much time for that as possible and Anyway, I'm I'm open to discussion about it Yeah, Jack. I think outdoor seating for businesses is a good thing when business when Whether permits you may have noticed in the draft ordinance that we did cut back three weeks on the On the time limit it may not be everything you're looking for it clearly isn't but I think people are Torn between saying well, we need the parking what plus and on the other hand saying We sometimes get really nice weather into October that Enables people to enjoy being outside if if we do and so I think this is a compromise Leaf season is over Really officially hang on hang on Richard. Sorry. I'm gonna let Jack finish. Yep. I I I'm certainly aware and appreciative of that as a concern. I don't think we've heard from What you referred to as the business community on On what we should do we are gonna have another public hearing on this and I certainly welcome other views on this question because I don't think that There's anything magic about November 8th or October 15th or any other Particularly might pick So I actually am not opposed to October 1st, that's five months May 1st October 1st is five months That leaves the remaining seven months of the year You know, I know that At least in my time on the council so far there was a lot of business community opposition to having the down-home Parklet on Langdon Street and so it seems to me and It seems to me that October 1st is is is reasonable. I mean, you know, if the goal here is to meet everyone's needs in town You know, it'd be taking off five weeks, but it would still be five months And it it just seems to me that that's actually a pretty reasonable compromise in terms of meeting the needs of other businesses And and being mindful of the value that I think Parklets do actually add to our downtown I frequent them regularly So I'm actually okay with October 1st, and I'm happy to make a motion that we move it to October 1st There a second I was but she just made a motion. So I think I've been swayed a second Okay, so we're gonna have some further discussion And in that we're gonna go To the other people Okay, so I'm happy to say that I was I think the person Richard was talking about earlier Thank you, I appreciate that but I I'm not sure that Despite having suggested that we might consider moving it to October 1st. I'm not sure that I am completely in favor of that I don't think it's a bad idea at the same time. I want to point out that It was interesting the way you framed it that Parklets are For the or that is parking spaces are for the 22 businesses, for example, or for the one and they're also for The people who want to park there regardless of whether they're visiting those businesses or just parking and walking somewhere else and Speaking just personally as someone who never drives All parking spaces in town are nearly useless to me Unless there's a parklet in them and I can sit there and have dinner so That's not to say that I I think we should get rid of all parking spaces now But I do want to point out that that there are more stakeholders here than just the immediately Adjacent business and then the rest of the businesses along the street I'm also an employee of a storefront business and we definitely have lots of customers who like to park right in front of our Store, so I do see that as a A valid concern Tana, and then I've got a comment I saw so many families use the parklets Both the ones for the restaurants and the pocket park during Halloween It was great seeing the congregate looking through their suites And when the weather is good, you see people using it in the shops, even though it's chilly out So I prefer to keep it till November. That's just me That's it's interesting and I think you're both touching on the point that I wanted to make which It was interesting to set up like the dichotomy between you know is the parklet for one business or For their their benefit of you know of their restaurant, let's say versus parking for the remainder of the businesses that are in the area and For parking, but I guess I would also See that even if the parklet is there as a as a park that that serves the other businesses as well Right like retaining people downtown having them hang out on the street might actually Be another reason for people to come downtown and actually spend more time in those other businesses Like it doesn't doesn't necessarily feel like a deck like it's either this or that I think they can Both be beneficial Yeah Parklets for those businesses serve the people who can afford to eat there You know and and there are a lot of people in our community who can't And there are a lot of people in our community who do drive to work on the weekends who you know need places to park It's open parking on the weekends and they can't park there. So just you know, it is a it is a balancing But but to me, it's about meeting everyone's needs and doing that in a way that seems Equitable, you know, I know that we're not going to please everyone that is unfortunately one of the heartless But you know, it just seems as though we can strike a balance and I think that the October 1st You know change up is is kind of reasonable and You know, it gives five months of being outside There are still places to be outside in downtown Montpelier I was just looking at the October 2018 weather predictions and you know a balmy 26 degrees on October 7th that night really seemed like the kind of time I'd want to be hanging out outside So I just I'd just like to counter that So I don't really have a strong opinion here because the only Stakeholder we've heard from on this is the corgi pet and so I Understand where you're coming from you've got a good case to make I Would assume that other businesses have opinions and I don't know what they are So I would welcome additional comments on this from The additional stakeholders at the second hearing I guess I'm willing to go along with it this time with the Understanding that if if people feel really strongly about a different date that I would hope that they would come out next time and We could potentially reconsider it then if we hear a strong opposition check You you mentioned you got to something that I was just about to ask you in your role as parliamentarian Which is if we if we pass this motion tonight Would we be able to reverse that action at the second public hearing of the same ordinance? That's why you have the second hearing I think so too even with the exact same motion, okay John is saying as far as he knows so We've done it in the past We have a second hearing it's not for nothing you do it to take input and make a final decision The other thought I had was could you table it until the next meeting? But I would say please don't table it, but I have to go to back I'm not sure I'm following all the language, but I think it makes sense to me that Since this is the first time we have Discussed in council the idea of moving it to October 1st, and it would be useful to have other people's opinions I would think that we should keep it at October 1st for now and plan to I'm sorry October 15th excuse me keep it at October 15th for now and Solicit other opinions for the second hearing and reading And change it then if it seems Recommended That's my inclination as well I Would have a vote right now, but Ashley's not here and that seems unfair. Yeah, so One possibility is that we can stall for her another possibility Any other comments from the public any response? Okay, okay. Well, I have one other thing to say well Ashley's out of the room because that This whole discussion about who gets to use the parklets who who benefits from them that Both Glenn and Ashley have raised really gets back to the interest that Rosie's made over the years which is Non-commercial parklets are of real value One further note if we do change the date This meeting or or next or ever. We should just also adjust the cost because it's a Cost that's linked to the time Oh, no, you mean like right now. Yeah, no And actually that's a good point I wonder if we have to build in Because if we vote on this next time it could heal period after We change. Oh, yeah, it doesn't go to effect. Maybe anyway, it's like 10 days or something Sound right. Yeah, so but I mean one Possibilities and so this has been enacted. Oh That so the enacted date was the original one. We might just want us forward date like when it's Going to be enacted. So it's clearly not this season Can we make that or effective date? Yeah, an effective date. That's I think a better word for it. Yeah Can we make a note of that for next time Sue? Is that okay team? I know I didn't really make that emotion, but Donna do you have something? Are you proposing also that we set them in the second hearing for the third or for the 10th? Oh, I would suggest the 10th Okay Okay, so actually we didn't vote while you were away I would I would hope to do that for everybody Okay, so we have a motion on the table to move it to October 1st for the discussion On favor, please say aye. Aye. Aye. How many was that? Okay? I'll pose. May It's a hum. Oh my gosh Okay, so I think it's three and three So I got about this is the first time And then the mayor votes nay so Which is to which is also to say like if businesses are unhappy with October 15th But gladly welcome more feedback On that so to be continued. Yeah, I would opposed to that as a hard line, but just would want more feedback. Yeah, I Would have equally happily voted Yes on a motion to table because I and I'd be happy to be Persuaded to change my mind next time. Yep likewise Okay, great. Thank you, and you do make a good point and for me it is also weather related. So anyway Yeah, that's good point Okay, yep. Thank you, so we're gonna close the public hearing and We need to set the date for the next Hearing the second reading. Do you need a motion for that? I think we do I would move to close the I don't think we need a motion to close the hearing. I would move to set the Date of the second hearing for October 10th second for the discussion. Well, if you say aye, I Great. Thank you Okay, okay building and zoning permitting report you like the charts Well, we're getting logged in here for a what's hopefully gonna be the shortest PowerPoint you'll ever get I'm Mike Miller. I'm the planning director So Mike if I can just ask a little bit about the context for this This is really to just be an update about how we are progressing towards EDSP goals is that or is there a different understanding that you I was asked to give a presentation on permits to update the council on Intended outcomes To ensure economic development like there's pressure here sure it happens All right, so let me go through real quick So I Just have a handful of slides here to just go through so what I put together a couple of summary charts of what's going on with permits So to be able to compare apples to apples We just queried our permit software and looked at permits issued between January and September of each of these years from 2014 to 2018 and As you can see the number of permits hasn't changed much either for building permits and red or zoning permits and orange Really kind of has stayed relatively flat Which kind of surprised us a little bit because we have been extremely busy so what we Kind of dug in a little bit and started to realize was that A lot of this came out of the complexity of the projects that we're seeing now One permit for a fence one permit for a garage there's still one permit But one permit for Caledonia spirits one permit for Taylor Street one permit for a hotel offered considerable amounts more of work So where that would show up is actually in the amount of fees because more complex projects Receive more reviews and generate more fees So that's where the second table came in which looks at by fiscal year because that's how it kind of runs through the system FY 15 through FY 19 so we only have two months of FY 19, which is why that's really small But the the red bars again are building orange bars are zoning the the three years FY 15 16 and 17 total $232,000 FY 18 and two months of FY 19 or 226,000 So and we have a $9,000 permit that we just added in so in 15 months The last 15 months we've generated the same income as the previous three years combined so It's and the fees have not increased for building. So this is apples to apples The zoning permits we did increase after FY 16 So there was a jump, but I think that doesn't account for all of the increase that you see So we are we are really getting a lot more fees FY 18. We doubled the budget and estimates, so we're supposed to get like 130,000 and we got 250,000 of combining so we're definitely generating a lot more Fees and I think that just comes back that helps to show How busy staff are downstairs issuing permits So the final graph was start to look at you know performance So each one of the bars going across represents a different project that orange in the red You'll see kind of moving across Those are the building permits for either public buildings or single-family dwelling so they're moving across a few years ago We were generally issuing building permits in four to eight days. You'll notice that's starting to creep up Building permits are now taking between 14 and 23 days to get issued And we'll get back to that in the last slide. We'll talk a littl