So, let me very quickly go through the changes that we have made and the updated FDPs. Each of the two FDPs have been detailed out here. Please, why I am discussing this is I want you to think about these. I want you to think about these even later. We'll try and get you a printed copy with you so that you can think about it even later. And if you have any suggestions or modifications, we would like to incorporate or learn them and then discuss and incorporate these if possible. Each FDP as usual has four modules, roughly to be covered in one week per module, but we have said that one week of activity which is about five days of activity, so five weeks will be given with some intermediate week available. The first module is on information capture, storage and display, where we'll talk about the subsystem of computer devices for capture. We'll talk about servers, cloud and storage forms. We'll talk about the effective storage and display where directory organization, file handling, multiple information formats, organizing and searching information, and commonly used productivity tools such as word processing, spreadsheet, etc. will be covered. By the way, this is something which is now learned by young students in the school itself. In fact, most people will know what browsing is. Most people will know what file system is, how to search files, etc. But you will be surprised that there are many colleague teachers even today who are not very comfortable with these technologies. For example, they do not know what should be file naming conventions. And as things go beyond the engineering and technology field, take for example library science. You would have some friends who have studied library science, they manage your libraries and other libraries and so on, extremely well versed with how to categorize books, classify books, ISBN numbers, etc., etc. But most of these, when they are asked to digitize their content, say for example, scan a manuscript, scan a book. So they will scan some paper, and the name of the file will be scan1.jpg, scan2.jpg. They are asked to prepare a Word document, giving all the metadata about some books or something like that, and convert that into a PDF file. Invariably, the file name is file1.pdf, file2.pdf. Now we all laugh at it because we realize the stupidity of using such names.  Nobody has told them. Such simple things have to be told, and such simple things have to be practiced. And that is where this module is important. You all agree that this fundamental module will be there? By the way, we will be using the same module for our vocational training of school children as well. You see, you cannot afford these days to kill one bird by one stone.  So when we invest in creating any OER, and this is something all of you should remember, it should be primarily targeted for one activity that you have in mind, but it should be reusable in ten other activities also. Then only your time and effort is worth it. All right. The second module is the world of internet and web. Here we have reduced the emphasis on networking and connectivity. The fundamental fact that a colleague of mine observed is that in order to drive a car, it is not important to understand how the IC engine works. So accordingly, we have said that while the nomenclatures such as protocols, DNS server, etc. can be given, it is not necessary for all of our teachers to understand the nuances, how these things are done. But they must know how exactly they work and how to exploit that. So while we will discuss the basics of connectivity, Lance, Vance, what is an IP address, what is a domain name, we will describe what browsers are, what plugins are. But the major emphasis will be on usage of these things rather than how things work. Effective exploration of web, we believe is a very important aspect which many people are not familiar with. So searching techniques and best practices for exploration. This is something that we are getting, some of our best people to give us additional inputs and we will create weeks of activities around this time. Online collaboration techniques is something that is still evolving. After all we are all assembled here and between today and tomorrow, you will know that our primary objective is also to form collaborating teams. It is not easy to form collaborating teams and it is not easy to work collaboratively when you are alone at some place and your collaborators are somewhere else. So some mechanism will be explored here. The third module is on evolution and spread of ICT in education. That is where we will talk about content management systems such as Drupal, we will talk about learning management systems such as Moodle, we will talk about spoken tutorial methodology and we will also talk about academic administration that teachers have to do in their own colleges, maintaining marks, giving grades, compiling marksheets, etc. Where different universities, different colleges follow different mechanisms, how they could use technology for that purpose. There was one feedback that I would need from you is how useful did you find the exercises on WordPress where you had to design your own web page. Do you think that is useful activity? So we should retain that, right? Because that gives actually teachers a mechanism to create something which they themselves can see whether it is working or not. So it's like hands on. Is that okay? Fine. We are not very clear on what should be covered in the last module because the last module is very peculiar to every participating institution. So for example, in IIT Bombay we have terms like cumulative performance index, computing of grade points, etc. But some other colleges which are affiliated to university might be awarding marks out of 20 for some internal marks for example. So how are such records maintained is not very clear to us. After conclusion of this workshop when you go home, you will find a detailed questionnaire for which you will have to submit a document file giving your opinions on these and other things. Please do spend time at your convenience but within a week. And as usual within a week means not the last day of the week. Okay. To give that feedback. Now this is where we have said using ICT for effective educational communication. For digital content creation and validation, we may use the wordpress kind of activities here again but with some other tools perhaps. But design of presentation material and visual communication is something in which none of us ever received any formal training. Many of us routinely use PowerPoint slides. So as they say power corrupts and PowerPoint corrupts absolutely. And even how to design slides, etc. is not very clear. I think in this FDP also there were some sessions which Dr. Samir Shastrabud conducted. How did you like those sessions? Are they useful? Okay fine. So we will retain this definitely. How to create handouts and assignments for online usage. Now online conduct of a quiz is not a very easy thing unless you have a platform. How many of you use Moodle in your own colleges? Fairly large number. Okay let me reverse this question. How many of you don't use Moodle or any such activity? So that means your assignments, etc. will be paper based assignments and they will be assessed on paper. I think you will have to go back and advise your own institutions to change that very quickly. Because it means lot of your time will be wasted in circulating papers, in collecting answer sheets, correcting them, record keeping. This is the traditional way. We will have to understand that. On emails we found out, we did cover the notion of emails and etiquettes but not adequately. I think our teachers first and subsequently our students have to be very well educated on how to write anything on net or in social media for example and what are etiquettes. So you agree that this should be a useful component to this. And finally how to use discussion forum and how to use social media in the context of education. So do you think this design now looks better and more comprehensive? Just since you have a print out with you, think about it, reflect on it and get back if necessary in the, yeah. In the conference last time which we attended, there was a last session on the presentation techniques where they showed different visual techniques as well. Where you can write and the same thing can appear on the PowerPoint. And it was really very good sir. If you could add that as an advanced visual communication technique. Yes you can but you require actually some special tools. Sir those which are free at least we can try to see if we can include them. Sure. Yeah. So what you are saying is that, so just as I am using this elmo for example to write. Now this tool, how much does this cost Sajjan? This, 25. So about 25,000 rupees you can get this gadget. All right. So Sajjan who is a master in all such devices, we will give him the combined responsibility on all our behalf. That he should work that out and will work with some teachers. Prasad Gaitonde is an extensive user of that device I believe. So, and Prasad Gadre also. So we will make them conduct some sessions. It's a very good idea. Where should I add that? Module 4 second point sir. Yeah. So here what I should say is something like, how would you describe it? Sir I think the software name was video scribe or something. The one which was shown by the presenter. What was the name? I think video scribe or something like that. I don't remember right now but I can recall later because many. Okay. I'll just put a question mark here. Okay. Sir I'll remember. Okay. Okay fine. So going forward, if we have a good coverage of these topics, do you think that it will benefit all our teachers? And this would make a good foundation course. While we'll be running these two separate FDPs incidentally, admission to the second FDP will require that you qualify in the first FDP. So you cannot come to the pedagogy course and say who is a file name that is not permitted. You agree that this should be the sequence, the sequence in video file. Actually when I was passing through this FDP and we were doing our assignments, I felt that there must be some more sessions on Moodle. So that we can understand the operation and how to upload everything on Moodle more effectively. So we had to work harder. So for the participants who will be coming for this first FDP, I believe that there must be the session which will be designing for Moodle a bit enlarged. Maybe more tutorials and assignments maybe there. More sessions on Moodle. So there is one thinking of the following kind. Why not we facilitate use of Moodle by preparing a Moodle distribution for Indian academic institutions. Where you can set up the Moodle. See technically anyone can download Moodle and install it. But its usage amongst the teachers requires some maturity. In IIT today there is not a single course which can run without Moodle. In fact the moment students do online registration for their courses which is obligatory but which is done through a different system developed by our applications of ourselves. But the moment they register that registration automatically goes to the Moodle course. So if I am teaching a course every day every moment practically I can know who are the students who have joined and what is their all basic information etc. Actually if you ask me a separate workshop on Moodle alone is useful. Do you all agree that people will benefit? Good morning sir. This is a project showing that we are going to create handouts and assignments. How about plagiarism check regarding the same. The faculty should be aware of regarding the plagiarism check. Let me just first write this. Any other point that you would consider for online submissions. This plagiarism check is a very useful point. Hello. Last time we interacted with some faculty members of IIT. Where they said that Moodle is not that good learning management system. And if you want to develop something in this learning management system Moodle should be avoided. And we should try some other kind of LMSs which are better for programming and all. And you are going to interact with me when we search for best LMS. So such as what? Such as what? LMS. Then teachable they suggested. So particularly Moodle there are problems people are saying. Like a canvas LMS system. Canvas is also open source? For teachers it is. No. It's a very dangerous game to play. How many of you are familiar with MATLAB? All of you. All of you use MATLAB? All right. How many of you are very sure that in your own institution. All licenses of MATLAB are properly purchased. Much fewer you see. All. No student copies that MATLAB and goes to the hostel and uses MATLAB. Can you guarantee that? So I am from Sardar Patel Institute of Technology. We emphasize our student to use SILAM instead of going for MATLAB. Sir, the point that I am making in the context of this discussion Moodle, I am happy you raised this issue. We have no problem with commercial products also. I have myself advised large banks to use commercial products such as Oracle to require both that kind of performance and that kind of support which costs money. But I am always worried when a particular software is free for teachers but not free for general usage. For example, you go through the fine print of such licenses and you will find that if let us say an office superintendent of your department even a login that person is not a teacher. Whether that is permitted or not is not known. There are several problems. They are very good. I have mentioned MATLAB because it is one of a very good commercial product. Same thing is AutoCAD. AutoCAD provides free license to all academic institutions. But if you have to use something associated with AutoCAD that costs money. You take word processing tools. This is a older version of Microsoft Word which is licensed only on this PC. But my staff will use open source tools such as open office or whatever. One of the important things for the general spread of technology in this country is that if you take 36,000 colleges, none of them will be able to afford the software cost of a paid product. Now amongst the open source software that is available, there are multiple choices. IIT Bombay did a lot of thinking on this by the way as did many other institutions. Some institutions use the commercial products as learning management system. So I will mention two things about it because software is something I understand and spend my lifetime on this. There is no package which will ever give you all the features and facilities that you require. Second, in the competitive world, there will always be packages which will give certain facilities better. There is no doubt about it. But what we have to propagate, we should carefully think about and decide. And our parameters are few. Number one, it should be open source so that if necessary people can make modification. Please understand that the Moodle that you see today was not the Moodle that it was 10 years ago. You should compare the functionality of the earliest version of Moodle and functionality that is available now. Where do you think this functionality has come from? It has come from people like us who want more functionality. Somebody writes that additional software. Somebody releases in that open source. Open source is the best example of collaborating communities, which is something what we want to unlock. And that is the reason why we have said. Having said that, since some of you seem to be familiar with certain features of LMS which are available either commercially or free for teachers such as Canvas, I would request you to give a feedback on what exactly is the functionality in those packages which you find superior and easier to use so that we can establish teams even in IIT Bombay itself to augment Moodle and send back that modification to the global community. That is entirely to it. So sorry for digression, but I entirely agree that there should be a separate FDP on such things is worthwhile. We'll consider that option also. We have Moodle experts. I think last time it was Professor Bandarkar conducted some sessions on that, is it? I don't remember who. We had some sessions on Moodle, but you think they are inadequate. There should be more, right? Yeah. Excuse me sir. What is the evaluation criteria for first model? There are two FDPs. Yeah. The first FDP is there any evaluation criteria like all the pains what we have gone through? In fact the evaluation will be our assessment of participating faculty you are saying. That's correct. It will be exactly like what we have undergone. Yeah. It will be very similar. So there will be weekly quizzes, an assignment, some peer assessment to be done, some submissions to be done. How much of face-to-face interaction we have to keep? We have to decide. I am of the opinion that after you listen to my colleagues session on AVU, if you find that AVU interaction is good enough, then what we can do is instead of having the first FDP centered around remote centers, we can make that FDP work from individual workplace of groups of faculty members. And we limit the session interaction with the associate faculty with them. But we in turn will have interaction with the associate faculty. Suppose we have 100 associate faculty. These 100 associate faculty can connect to IIT Bombay much like an orientation workshop that we conduct for workshop coordinators where we could routinely connect to each other and get inputs about how the interaction is progressed. Further, since we will be using IIT Bombay X as the platform, incidentally we will not be using Moodle in these FDPs now. And I will tell you the reason for that. We found that a lot of people were confused between when and what to use Moodle for and when and what to use IIT Bombay X for. So two platforms for the same activity are always confusing. We have decided that we will use IIT Bombay X where further augmenting that platform for the blended mode operation, our modifications are going to be released to the global community in an event in May, the global OpenEDX conference where for the first time India will be contributing back to the global community. But we are also actively considering integrating Moodle with IIT Bombay X. So some features of Moodle could be used. Unfortunately, most of these packages have their own way of creating the base database of all users. And one does not rhyme with the other. So there is a lot of confusion when you switch between two packages. So we will use that. However, the assessment will be exactly like what you said. And yes, if there are say 8000 participants enrolling for this FDP, it is quite likely that only 5000 or 6000 may qualify, independent of personal interaction. So participation and qualification are two different things. Sir, I request you to conduct one exclusive FDP for us in Moodle. In Moodle. Okay. So what you are saying is? An exclusive continuation of these two. Before we take this to the next level, some of the participants have told we might not have explored all the possibilities there. Okay. So what you are saying is a separate FDP on Moodle for general population is a different thing. But before that. Yeah, for us. A separate FDP. Associate faculty. Only for associate faculty. Yes, sir. Interesting. Okay. We will work that out. Sir. Yeah. Last time we faced a lot of problems with respect to peer assessment and challenges as well. Yes. So the challenges were in terms of rule breaks. We are going to spend two and a half hours today afternoon facing those challenges once again. Okay. So sir, there has to be a session for everyone on the peer assessment so that they are very clear about how to do it. So that will happen in the second hour. Okay. We will discuss that after the tea break. Okay. And some alterations in the rule breaks are as well as needed. So that what you are talking about is this FDP 2. Yes. We will discuss that later. Okay. But any observations on this part? Good morning, sir. Sir. Can you raise your hand? Yeah.  Sir, I am Jyothi Shetty from RV College of Engineering in Bangalore. Sir, in our FDP, we were first introduced to licensing, creative commons license. See, that is missing here. Creative commons license. How to use, I mean, whenever we use the resources, we should be seeing the license first before we use. So you are suggesting something like this should be added? Yes, sir. Yes. And in the module one, so we use Google Forms nowadays to capture the information and from the students and all. That should also be part of the module one, Google Forms to take a survey. Is that the way to put it? Tools to conduct surveys and polls. In fact, Google Forms, they are open source and... All of us use Google Forms. So what are the problems with Google Forms? No, that is not true. What she is saying is anybody can change anything. That is not true. Google Forms has a variety of mechanisms to safeguard the data. In fact, it has become one of the most popular collaborative tools. Sorry. Sir, I am Saurabh Maru from GSITS Indore. Sir, last year when we did FDP, there was a WordPress and we created a web page. So after one year, shouldn't we shift or shouldn't we add creation of apps also because it is also available free of cost in a way like WordPress. So it will be more personalized. Messages like content can be communicated. And there is number of apps which are available free of cost for content like... I am a pharmacy faculty, so like heart and many disease related that we are already utilizing and proven to be very useful. I will possibly put it... So should I say world of apps or applications? Please understand that you can practically run a semester course on every line of these contents. Now the trick is to decide what is most appropriate as a general introduction and general awareness, that is what we are creating. So I think taking a cue from this desire, perhaps the content should be such that for those who are interested, we should give pointers and additional material for them to study, see and so on. But we missed out the first question that I asked. What is the problem with Google Forms, if any? Anybody? Yeah. Sir, I am Prafula from Arvay College of Engineering, Bangalore to whatever my friend, Jasna, who told Jyoti Shetty, like Google Forms you are asking, evaluation is very difficult with Google Forms. So if we can come up with some interface by taking the survey or whatever we do. Can you elaborate on what do you mean by evaluation? Evaluation like exactly the metrics whatever you have done in Moodle using that platform, if we can integrate or have an interface. No, there are two different things that we are talking about. When you talk about assessment, you are talking about individual submissions and those submissions to be assessed. Yes. Whereas Google Form is talked about more in the context of a collaborative platform where I can insert information in a row about myself, my preferred timing, my preferred topic, which has nothing to do with assessment. It is merely a mechanism of collecting a whole lot of information from large number of people. And particularly for polls and all, Google Forms can be used very effectively. But nobody pointed out any problem with Google Forms. So let me tell you, this is not a, yeah, sorry. Good morning, sir. I am Nilesh Sabnis from Sanjay Godavati Institute, Kolhapur. I face one problem regarding with the Google Form is that we cannot attach files. If we want to take some submissions in form that, we cannot attach any file. Okay. So Google Forms are definitely not meant for collecting submissions. Google Forms are meant for collecting basic information. So it's just like a Google spreadsheet or a ordinary spreadsheet where you can collect information. Typically the way it is used is that every participating person is supposed to edit one row of that form. In that row, you put whatever information relevant to you and the columns are pre-decided or there are certain columns which you may choose. So functionally, that is the limited objective itself for Google. So don't expect it to do anything more than that. But I am not talking about a functional problem at all. Yeah. Sir, I am from Sardar Patel Institute of Technology. My name is Deepak Karya. Normally we take a mid-sem feedback via Google Form and we expect the students to fill the form by a particular period of time. But what do I see that not all the students are compulsorily doing it? So we don't get a response from say for example, it's a class of 70 students. So normally I get a response 30 to 40. So it's like I have to shut down the window after that period waiting for a good amount of time. So this is a major problem which I feel that we don't get all the responses. IIT Bombay has solved that problem very simply. The online feedback by students is compulsory. If any student who does not fill up the online feedback for every course, the grade is not declared for that student. So we are very clear the online feedback is not made available to the teacher unless the teacher has submitted the grades. So that there is no possibility of my having a Khunna Sachcha Merukho Aishavol Daya. I mean nobody does that but it's a precaution. And similarly, the grade is not given to the student unless student has given the feedback. So these mechanisms, by the way, they are slightly different thing but important. How many of your institutions compulsorily require students feedback for every course that you teach? Very large number. Is that because of the national ranking framework requiring it to be mandatory? So you see all of us benefit from an external audit. Somebody says I'll give you marks for this then you start doing that. Fair enough. All right. Sir. Yeah. I am Sridharan from Adi College of Engineering Bangalore. Actually, app-based learning we are implementing today. So students are using Quick Learn. We introduced an app in our department called Quick Learn. So we are inputting the nodes and other things in that app, Android app. So that students are telling it is more useful. Why can't IIT Bombay can do an app for all the people who are using this as a platform but all the inputs can be given and we'll train in a very good manner so that the update can be given in the app. So that could be a good idea for the future applications as well as teaching learning methodologies. Your comments on that please. We will definitely consider using apps. The fact of life is that many of our teachers are not very comfortable in dealing with smaller devices as educational devices. A mobile, many teachers don't feel that it's a utility as an excess device. The apps that we talk of don't work on desktops. They are meant to work on small devices or mobile devices. Now this spread itself will happen. For an FDP of this kind where we have to talk about many more things, perhaps it is useful to say that apps are important. Social media is relevant. Developing and using apps is critical. And we give one or two examples. Please understand the purpose of this FDP is to improve teaching learning process and its understanding by our teachers. There are a whole lot of details. As I said practically on every line of these contents we can design a semester long course. So we have to decide to what extent to enlarge something and to what extent to compress something. It's not going to be an easy choice. Notice that this is different from what we had originally announced. This is based on some feedback. Today we are getting more feedback. We will be modifying it. Please understand that we cannot stuff so much material that participant will find it impossible to do in that five days of online activity. Because there is a limited time that a participant can spend. So I appreciate your point. But what we will do is we will only emphasize saying how the use of apps is critical and important. And we will leave it at that. This is Sharma from Jyothi Institute of Technology, Bangalore. Coming back to the question, is it multiple submissions? For Google Form. We can have multiple submissions for the same questionnaire. Again that is not the primary objective of a Google Form. But as far as conducting polls is concerned, as far as conducting feedback is concerned and as far as doing a collaborative documentation is concerned Google Forms are very good. But that is not the problem that I was mentioning. Sir, my name is Harim Mohan Rai from Kesan Agenda College, Ghaziabad. I found that the most drawback of the Google Form is the result can be manipulated. Because whatever the polls and survey we are saving it out, it will be in the form of actual sheets. So the data it can be saved in the form of actual sheets can be manipulated, can be changed, can be modified like that.  It is not meant for that. It's a collaborative tool. In any collaborative tool the, what should I say, sanctity of the final result is based on the willingness of each individual collaborator. Anyone of the collaborator decides to wash out your entire Google Form. He or she can scrub it in five minutes. You don't need any external person to manipulate. So to learn to distinguish between collaborating tools or collaborative tools and safe tools. For example, if you use Moodle, Moodle is open source but the Moodle installation in your institution will be controlled by the system administrators and some faculty members. So there nobody including the teacher can manipulate something after something has been frozen. So distinguish between the safe system such as a banking transaction system or airlines reservation system. These are safe systems which are designed differently. Google Form is not designed like that. But since there is a very limited time for a tea break, let me share with you the concern that Google Form and such tools universally have. Any other observation I think there is one? Hello sir, I'm from KIT, it is College of Engineering, Professor Saurabh Joshi. Sir, last five years we are using Moodle in our college and we are like, we are adding quick, even submission, then videos, grading and automatically graded has been done and even any user cannot do any manipulation in that. Only a person or a faculty member can do everything. Even we are keeping quiz opening date, quiz closing date and automatically grading comes. Instead of using Google Forms or Excel sheet for continuous assessment report or sheet, we can do it collaboratively. So the only teachers have or in our case teaching assistants also have the Excel. You can define the Excel control and so on. And you see Moodle is a safe application. Yes. It is designed for that safety. Google Form is not designed for that. Yes sir. Right. So it can be overcome by using Moodle, Google Form. Absolutely. No, no, no. It cannot be overcome by using Moodle. I will tell you one simple distinction. In Moodle unless a course has been created and unless I am enrolled in that course, either as a teacher or as a student, I cannot participate in that. Yes. Suppose in my department I want to quickly conduct a poll amongst all my faculty and students and staff saying how many of you are interested in going to a picnic and which of the two days you would prefer for this picnic. Now I can send this mail to all my students, all my faculty colleague and all my department staff. But none of them are a common component of any one course on my Moodle. So how will they participate? Sir, there is a discussion forum in Moodle. There is one discussion forum. The discussion forum cannot be commented upon by any arbitrary soul. You have to be a member of that community to participate in that discussion forum. The Google Form is not meant for that. Google Form is meant for open collaboration. I can invite any Tom Deacon Harry to join. So consider, for example, I want to have survey conducted out of some hundred participants of the FDP who are doing the first FDP, but who are interested in, let us say, contributing a specific open educational resource content created in thermodynamics of mechanical engineering department. How will I access people? There are 4,000 participants. So I must make something which is easily accessible to them. If there are 4,000 participants of my Moodle course or IIT Bombay X course, I can use the poll that you want. But if I want to say anybody in India, how will I do it? So these two different objectives are there. Just one more observation of friend. Sir, myself, Dr. Praveen from Gokaraju Rangaraju Institute of Engineering and Technology, Hyderabad. Sir, what I feel is, since this group, they are all excellently performed people. So one request is, can some of us, can maybe like either guide or either can pursue PhD in educational technology. Because as you say, your vision is to train 1 crore people. So it should be continuous R&D. And another problem is if some of us, those who don't have PhDs want to do PhDs, and whether technical AICT apex body, can they consider this as a technical PhD? So because tomorrow AICT chairman is coming. So because lot of people don't recognize our work if we work in ICT, etc. So how we can really deal about this thing? We are all slaves of the stabs that we put on our backs. So we have to be either mechanical engineer or electrical engineer. Have you ever heard of someone applying to for a faculty position and says, I'm an engineer. Which department I should apply for, which position I should apply for? Similarly, at the PhD level, stupidly this country says, your PhD must be in this area. Otherwise, you cannot be appointed as a faculty member. In the IIT system at least, PhD is never given in a department. It is given on the title of the thesis. So your PhD is on that thesis. But whatever, you are right. Even here, we have these silos. I don't know how to destroy those silos. I've been struggling for last 30 years.  But it's not going to be very easy. So answering your question, I've invited Professor Sridhar Ayer, who has taken over recently as head of our Center for Distance Engineering Education program. And he is now the convener of our interdisciplinary academic program on education technology. One of the things that he and Prasanna Murthy have been doing for almost a decade now is to emphasize the importance of research in IT and research in education. Jay Krishnan, who is just finishing his PhD, is going to have a session with you. I will request both Professor Sridhar Ayer and Jay Krishnan to talk about how we could encourage research in IT as a part of this association itself and in fact as a part of these FDPs in future. That's a very good point. We'll do that. Yeah. Hello. Am I sir, Dr. C. R. Patil from a pharmacy organization from Shilpur, Dhulia. Actually sir, we are considering regarding the foundation program for two weeks program, FDP. So what I feel is, if engineers are there, who have already gone through such courses, then they only will be able to handle all these contents within two weeks. For a pressure, even these contents would be quite heavy. These contents? Will be too much like understanding noodle, understanding apps, everything they cannot do within two weeks because when we did it in the beginning, even going through noodle was quite difficult for us. So what I feel is, even this content should be reduced or there should be three FDPs instead of two. And then the content should be accommodated. In fact, this is the argument that I was having sometime earlier. I think these are some very sober thoughts and all of us should pay attention to it. Remember what I said, every one of us has limited time, only 24 hours in a day. If I'm a faculty member at some place and if you're conducting this FDP, you expect me to work equivalent of one day in a week. That is eight hours of work. I think you have to sit down and try to put yourself into my shoes and try to understand how much work can I do in those eight hours in a week. And if you take one module, there are four points on that module. Every point I have to not only read, but view some lectures, do some exercise, understand and assimilate in two hours' time. Before you prescribe what others should do, you should yourself judge whether that is doable in that given time on. And that is why our desire to extend apps, extend this, etc. is very good and very nice. But we should... These are the thoughts expressed by our friend here, very sobering thoughts. We must keep that in mind. And secondly, we are not designing this FDP for 253 top performers anywhere. We are... Just like when we teach a course to 100 students, while we do want the top performing students to do very well and learn more, we also want to ensure that the bottom performer in my class also learns a minimal thing, so that when that student passes, we know and the world knows that these minimum skills and understanding is there. I think that is our job. So thank you very much for pointing this out. Who mentioned that I forgot the name? What's your name once again? Sir, this is Dr. C. R. Patil. C. R. Patil. Okay. So this is an important point and you notice that every time you give a feedback, I was adding lines or clauses there. So these clauses are not necessarily all accepted. They will be assessed on the basis whether an ordinary participant, an ordinary mortal among us desiring to learn something new but has limited time, whether I can assimilate and do justice in two hours for a particular line in that module or not. If I cannot, I must reduce the conflict. Because it should also be feasible. So this is an important point in saying this is the work that you have to do and nobody is able to do that. All right. Good morning, sir. This is Dr. Jagpal from Acme Institute of Management, Greater Nevada, UP. I have been using all the web 2.0 technologies platform from last many years that includes WordPress, Padlet, Biggie Spaces, Models, Modal Cloud for sharing and for other things. But Padlet I have been using almost every course I take and undertake I use a Padlet, create a Padlet for my students. In that I can share them what I am supposed to share with them but Padlet also can be used with other faculty members maybe from different departments, maybe from different organizations. But Padlet has a problem. The problem is again with the license. For academics it is allowing academics as a free. But I want to know what could be consequences in that case if it is not true in that sense. Yes. So consequences of licensing I already mentioned that if something is open source will do that. Google forms by the way is certainly not an open source tool. Okay. There is no license involved. They give it free but they give their utilities free for a completely different reason. They use the data that goes on to those Google forms. And we must break for tea now. But coming back I will tell you in the pedagogy session on what are the possible dangers for sharing such data later. So we will come back at 11.30.


What's up everybody Jason from jazby's case breaks calm 2020 pinning flawless baseball two box case break picker teams number nine just sold out and That's ripped. So we had a little R&B for 12 teams that includes the white top tell me down in the Marlins here the customer names And then here are the customers that are part of the break itself All right guys, and here's the case in front of me guys So my first time taking a look at this 2020 flaws I didn't get to break any on release day as I was doing so much of the Of the prism that Pretty much took up all my time in the morning so See what we got here. Oh the briefcases are black again. He's like my favorite briefcases Black Oh There's two again, but the middle can be can be one if anything I So the blockchains guys if they're part of the R&B those I mean if they're part of the R&B teams Blockchain will of course will be a redemption so I don't want to sponsor and triple patch autographs Or triple patch autographs Dylan sees for the Chicago White Sox, and there you go As I said it I did pull So I don't go to spot zero, so that's Chicago Next one we got is four to seven Dylan sees patch Very typical Now, as it goes through the day on Monday into the overnight hours, the winds will stick around. So this is 8 o'clock in the evening. At this point, we're going to start to see gusts pick up as well. We'll likely see some very strong gusts. For the overnight hours, Monday into early Tuesday morning, around 10 o'clock on 7 o'clock in the morning. Still looking at 15 to 25 miles per hour winds across, our wind primarily is at L.A. as well as the L.A. But during that overnight period, you'll see gusts in the evening. Old school, early wind for Washington. So let me double check what the checklist has it for. Because I believe Washington Senators would still go, I believe, to the Washington Nationals. But just because it has old school, let me double check what the group break checklist is like. Washington Senators, I believe, is actually Minnesota Twins, I want to say. Yeah. So there you go. They have early wind under the Minnesota Twins. So you guys will see it right there. That's where they have that right there. Yeah, although all the real old school ones are kind of weird. I mean, some of them are all affiliated with some people, but I guess the group project just has them there with the Twins. Oh, these all 180s. Let me put a tag. So like I said, early wind is Twins. So Minnesota Twins, that is R&B, which actually I guess it wouldn't have made a difference, Rex, even if you were right. Rangers and the Twins are still part of the R&B. So 15 out of 25, spot five going to Aaron. Excuse me. All right, next one, guys. We got a Brennan Rogers Patch Auto Signature Prime Materials, nice three color patch, 19 out of 20, Rocky's going to Kurt. We have a 1 out of 20, Dennis Eckersley, Oakland Athletics going to Brett. We got a patch auto here of C.C. Sabat, the Cleveland Indians Edition, 9 out of 25. Indians going to Andrew. Then we got 13 out of 25, Yoshi Tomal. Tampa Bay Rays, 13 out of 25. Tampa Bay Rays going to Blake. We got for the Minnesota Twins, Paul, or sorry, Rockeru. Seven out of seven patch auto. Minnesota Twins is part of the R&B, spot seven is Hans. There you go, man. It's kind of hard to see it, but there's a seven right there. And the last one here before the encased cars is Donnie Baseball, Don Mattaly, four out of 15. All right, let's go with the encased cars now. So the middle card here is not there. This is just the key and the certificate to let you know the diamonds are not lab grown. And we got a Yordon Alvarez, 21 out of 25, three color patch, top rookie slugging percentage for the Houston Astros going to DJ. Very nice Yordon. And we got one out of 10 for the Atlanta Braves, Ronald Acuna Jr., little piece of the diamond. Yeah, well, it's like last year, right, Oliver? Last year, every case had either a Tatees or a Vlad. So I feel like this year is going to be Yordon and somebody else. Have they made Luis Robert more tough to get? This is my first case, so I guess I can't speak on who the second player would be, but I figured Yordon would be one of them. All right, well, Braves, that's actually going to go to Roy. And then Yordon actually goes to the Astros. But yeah, Brad, if those teams were part of number of the R&B, those would be definitely be cleaning up to number one. All right, next one. Yeah, last year in Flawless, there was always at least a Tatees or a Vlad. If not both, sometimes. Oh yeah, people's, you remember last year, right? It was wild. Actually, we have a middle card here, guys. We have a middle card. Middle cards are not in every case, so that's pretty strong. But you have some nice Tatees though, Brian. I know you were going ham in a lot of products last year with your Padres. All right, we got Trent Grisham, speaking of the Padres, rookie patch autographs. Going to Josh Bruce. Nice. Did you sell them to us, Brian? Or were you just showing us the collection? Gavin Lux. Did you bring any one of your nice custom-made suitcases that you made? I'm going to grab some Tatees really quick. How about this, guys? How about a one-of-one Burt Blevins? Signature prime materials for the Minnesota Twins, and that is part of the random number block, guys. Spot one, going to Aaron Pettit. We got Kenny Lofton, Cleveland. Going to Andrew, out of 20. How about these patches here, guys? 8 out of 10, Quang Yung Kim for St. Louis. Part of the R&B. Spot 8, 8 out of 10, David Baker. We got Tom Glavin for Atlanta, 1 out of 5. Great. We got 9 out of 25, Ozzy Alves. 9 out of 25 there, another one for Atlanta, back to back. And last one here, guys. Anthony Rizzo, 5 out of 5. Chicago, Cubs, R&B. Spot 5, going to Aaron Pettit. All right, guys. So we do have a middle card, guys. Let's go with the diamond first. We have for the St. Louis, Cardinals, Quang Yung Kim, 13 out of 20 diamond. Spot 3, going to Hans. We have greats. It is Mariano Rivera, 11 out of 15. Man, how does he autograph his... How does he sign his autograph like that? So perfect every single time. That's amazing. There you go. Andrew Sandman. Andrew Prince with the Yankees. And we got a cleat. We got a cleat. 9 out of 22, speaking of Vladimir Guerrero Jr. about last year. Spikes, Vladimir Guerrero Jr. 9 out of 22 for Toronto. Going to Andrew Prince. Also got the Toronto Blue Jays. That was pretty cool. Spike, very nice. And there you go, guys. Just like that. That was flawless baseball. Two box briefcase. Picker team number 9. Next one's already in the store. Let's get the next one rolling, guys. Jaxby's Gaysbricks.com, guys. Really, really nice stuff. Mariano Rivera. Yorda Alvarez. Very, very strong. So again, number 10's in the store.


Thank you everyone for tuning in to Straight Talk Vermont Show. I'm Bruce Wilson, Executive Director of Service Render Incorporated and Straight Talk Vermont is a program, one of our programs. We have many, and I'd like to start off saying that we'd like for individuals to check out our art so wonderful gallery in the University of Mall, and we're also building an art so wonderful studio in a city place Berlin tomorrow to help individuals who want to do, who just want to come out and do art, and we're going to provide that for them. We have a space there around 1,000 square feet, and we're going to help them wherever their needs are. Our space in the University Mall is over 5,000 square feet. Incredible art from individuals from around the state. You know, we sell their art, you know, and I really appreciate my art director, Alondra Dilekouesta. She's a curator, an art director. She's an incredible person. I couldn't do this work without her, and we have all the art in there because of her and people who want to be a part of it. And I just want to say something. I think we're not better than no one because it's the first time we did art galleries. We usually have the youth centers, chillout centers, living rooms, Loft 89 and Fairhaven. Across the state we had open youth centers in the malls. But this is my first time, but I think that we're, because we want to work, and what we do is help people with their goals, dreams, aspirations, that our art gallery, we don't charge you nothing to put your art up, and then we only take 30%. So you get 70% of your art, and the youth that have art in there, they get 80% of their art. So we're very happy about how I was going. We had it for like two years now, and it's going well. We had some situation with the COVID, which probably everyone had. Can't say it was a bad thing, but it seemed like it, because a lot of people died, but my degree in psychology, so I got to go, what's good, be objective of John's judgment. But today, we have our incredible guest, Oliver Max Tracy, Burlington City Council President. Oh man, how important is that, how important that job is. I know a lot of you have heard of Burlington City Council. You might have presented there. You've seen some, you saw Max there, and here with the issues, their goals and issues, they have a lot of things they go, well God, I've been through some of the meetings there, probably more or less on youth agenda items and output development, developments, because some of my advisory board members are developers. But it's a long, it's a long day at City Council. Max, thank you for coming on straight talk for my show. Thank you so much, really appreciate you having me. Oh man, I really appreciate you coming on to tell that our audience know exactly what, you know, what you're the President and what Burlington City Council, what, you know, well let's start off with, how did you get involved with this?  Yeah, yeah, for sure. So I came to Vermont in 2005 to go to UVM and while at the university, I got heavily involved in activism and politics. That was one of the things that drew me to this area and just the human scale of those things, you know, being from Chicago, you know that it's tough, it can be tough to get involved there unless you're into like the kind of machine politics kind of things and so I really appreciated what I saw as sort of the more human scale of Vermont politics and the ability to get involved. And so came to Vermont to study and got involved with some of the student movements that were taking place at the time focused on labor issues up at the UVM campus, namely around getting livable wages for all campus workers and sort of along the same time frame I was also working pretty closely with Vermont Progressive Party and, you know, I was very attracted by the idea of having a more pluralistic political system by a party that didn't take any corporate money and just, you know, some of the key issues that the progressives have focused on over the years, things like single-payer health care, you know, not supporting the ongoing, you know, and continuous military industrial complex, just a number of those types of things. So I got involved with some working on some some campaigns with the progressives as well. So when I graduated from UVM, I ended up running in 2010, losing, staying involved, getting on boards and commissions, and then eventually running again in 2012, at which point I won that election and I've been on the council ever since. You lost the first one then you won in 2012. Yeah, and so I've been on since since 2000 on the city council since 2012 representing this ward where we are now Ward 2 right in the heart of the old north end. So it's been it's been absolutely incredible, just a true honor to be on the council and get to serve the community in this way.   Well, we love Vermont.  But, you know, just to come here, as I came here in 89, and I'm, of course, you bring me home. I was young, I told the story to artists many times.  I love the millennium. I mean, the yeah, what's the name of the millennium park, the beam. Yeah, all that stuff. Navy Pier.  Magnificent, all those incredible architectural designs. And it feels just like a, like a trivium building, they call it. Oh, incredible, right? Yeah, you definitely miss those things. I definitely miss those, certainly the family and those things. But, you know, I think, yeah, I love the, just love the smaller scale that we got going on here and the ability to connect with the community. Yep. And I just want to say one thing I miss the most about Chicago is that the Art Institute, the Museum of Science and History, the Museum of Natural History, the Aquarium. Brookfield and Lincoln Park Zoo, I mean, yeah, the culture is amazing. I know, man, it's so cool, you know, I miss those the most. But when I go home, I try to go there, you know, check out some things that that I loved when my folks used to take me to when I was a kid. But so this the the student liveable wages, that's what you was trying to build at UVM. One of the things you try to do was student liveable wages. And how important is that? Now, where you want to take over the buildings? Yeah. Oh, yeah. William, where's the buildings? What's the? We took over the the the the President's wing. When that was that was what's the name of it now? That's a waterman. Waterman. Waterman. The President's wing and the Waterman building. So I was part of that that takeover. I was there watching you guys. The last successful takeover. Yeah. And then we had to sit in outside of it and all that. You actually took that place over to you guys. We had all kinds of different actions that we did is to put to bring pressure on them to raise the wages for folks.  I think they saw that, you know, they needed they needed the real real protection that comes with with with organizing a union. And so they were able to successfully do that.   And Sodexo has been sort of one of the the employers that has not paid those wages for years and years and it has a bad track record. Yeah, I know Chef that's worked here on the campus. Yeah, you know, the workers are great. The workers are awesome. Yeah, it's the company that's the issue really. And I think those workers should get paid more because they're working so hard in order to make, you know, make sure that the students have good food to eat. So that's always been been been something that you know, I've cared about since I got here because I always saw, you know, those those rank and vile workers up on the campus, you know, really making a daily impact on students' lives. No doubt about it. Yes, it does get paid enough to live in a very, you know, in an area where it can be really challenging to find, you know, affordable housing and things like that. And so, you know, I think that that's something that we need to really that they needed that the university really needs to continue to address.    That is so important.  And so, you know, I appreciate that about you.  So thank you, thank you very much for, let that still continue to be your platform and work with people who look like me to get better, better and learn ways how they can get housing and livable wages and, you know, a lot of ground grassroots things that they can get involved with that they don't even know about, because I'm telling you something, I've been around since 1989, and I'll tell you something that I know for a fact that every time I've been going to meetings with all kind of credible people, you know, leaders in the state, and I'm probably like the only one that's in the room, me and I look over 300 people over there, there's a black person over there, there's a person of color over there, there's a, you know, right there are 300 people, you know, come on, man. Come on, man. You know, I know we like was 0.1% of African Americans or whatever, you know, it's more than that now, but now it's more than that now, you know what I'm saying? I think it's still the second-witest state in the country. I mean, I think that still though, I think what you're saying is very true, which is that even that being the case that we still see a disproportionately white, you know, sort of, you know, political sort of scene, you know, in a lot of ways just across the state. And so I think that that's that's certainly a piece of this, you know, I think the other piece that I was taking from what you were saying is also that, you know, while there is this and necessary focus on the criminal justice system, and specifically on policing and making real progress on the systemically racist policing systems that we have in place and have developed and are still, you know, unfortunately, some are still really resistant to changing. You know, I think that that you can see that, you know, that the fear that gets mobilized on that really is, you know, is unfortunate and is part of this, this effort to really kind of take those things down. But at the same time, you know, I think that that is also mobilized to really focus a lot of attention on that one particular issue when the issue is much more broad, you know, there's questions around economic and social inclusion and progress that, you know, we're quite frankly not making nearly enough progress on, you know, thinking about like on the housing front, you know, we see a rate of black home ownership that is pathetic.  I mean, it's it's the number. Some people say they're shocked, but but that's that's not that shouldn't be shocking to us. You know, we have a systemically racist system that has been developed over many years to create those outcomes. It shouldn't come as a shock to us that those are the outcomes of this system.  Yeah, well, I think, um, um, for all of us, you know, I sit on a Vermont State Police, very much policing. I hope I said it right. When you see as I sit on a school district anti-racism committee, I sit on a governance level with the anti-racial committee. We help on common alliance. And years ago, we helped change the data collection. And now on the back of tickets, you people have a race in the cities or who you are or whatever on it. And so we made some, we just distanced here in Vermont on these issues. But I still, but, but, um, it's not still clear. It's not, it's not, it's not working, to be honest with you. But, you know, if any of those boys that, that, that, um, that's out there, I probably was on there on somebody. I have some opinion. I had something out there. Yeah, you're, you're involved in this so, so, so deep in wine. So, so, um, just equity, diversity and inclusion. You know, it's hard that everybody's got like a equity and inclusion person in the city, in their cities now, probably because of Floyd or Black Lives Matter. And, um, so why do you think, why do you think that everybody's like, you know, why do you think anybody's on board, like not everybody, but a lot of people, like, when I used to look at TV and you talk about Black Lives Matter, it was more like more white people out there than black people. So, you know, I think that, that, um, they, um, Canada and young, young people, and, um, and I think they, I personally think that they, um, um, understand the plight of, you know, they, you know, the plight of, um, people, African-Americans or people of color based on that, um, they, we're never in their history books. You know, we, we, they didn't know nothing about us. You know, another thing too is that, um, we didn't live right, we don't live next door to you. We don't go to church with you. We don't go to grocery store with you. We don't, so, um, so you really don't know us. And how you know us is by stereotypical ways.  They live in, look at their neighborhoods. They out there, look at them looting the right, the stores.  Hey, they probably do more than, or the same. Absolutely, absolutely. Yeah, they do much more. But they, um, they put that against us.  Um, so, so just as equity, diversity, inclusion, and equity, and inclusion is, uh, they have started the cities, cities around the country. It's hard. It's no office that have equity and inclusion, you know, directors. And I bet it isn't, yeah, nowhere it is. I bet everybody have one.   So, I, I guess, I really never heard nobody, um, majoring in equity and inclusion or justice equity and, I really, I don't think that, I don't, I never heard nobody get an degree in that. So, so I think that, that, um, for me, you know, um, you know, in, in one of my shows I had on here, I'm just going to back up for a minute for, because I got to watch what I say. Is that I had, um, um, Taisha on the show. Oh, great. I had, um, Yasmin. From, um, Wunuski. Oh, cool. Equity, these are all equity, well, Taisha's more, she's, she'll put you straight. I'm racial, you know, in the inclusion. And, uh, Erin McGuire from Essence, she works in the school district. Very cool. Um, with students around equity and inclusion. Nice. And so I had them on the show just right here where they, you know, they talked about a lot of incredible things that, um, that, um, they did doing in the community and this thing and the other. And so, by me being, um, when I was, when I was growing up, um, in Chicago, I was part of the Civil Rights Movement. I'm, like, Jesse Jackson and Jackie Jack and Harold Mill, you know, came to my house and I was part of Operation Push, Operation Batch, SCLC, or really all that from years, you know, before. So when I came to Vermont, um, I had all this instill. I mean, my folks used to bring me up here. And my mother, I told her one year I was going to move here because I was looking at, um, um, the most discovery channel. And they were talking about Vermont. You know, Unity and Freedom Underground Railroad went through here. Um, they did slavery, you know, which is, you know, I think they did have slavery for a long time. Right, I mean, that picture is more complicated than I think many Vermonters would like to believe in the sense that, you know, slavery was outlawed but then existed in many forms well beyond that actual constitutional document. But that's what made me come here. One of the main reasons came up to um, I can't take her name now and the family who lives in Charlotte have that. The Clemens family family? I mean, I see her son. He was at the African First Latin in, um, and he was talking and, um, I never met her. It was funny how I was, somebody asked me about why I came here and I was telling a story about that and I'm, we need to meet that lady, Ms. Clemens. You know what I mean? I said, I still haven't met her. And they said, she just left and I'm like, oh no. So I got to, I sent her some emails and I, I'm going to talk to her because when I come up for the kid, as a kid, my first move is to go to her store, Africa Authentica. That's what was her, her store named after that woman. I was like, wow, there's a black lady in there. She got her place called Africa Authentica. When she import, you know, stuff, masks, those kinds of things. Yeah, I'm like, wow. You know what I'm saying? And they put it on the screen. So I'm like, yeah, I'm coming soon.  Not all the time, but when I can. I like to tell it. I told my mother, she told me when I told her I was coming, she said, you're going to make a difference out there. And I thought because it was a white state in America, when I came here, 89. And then, um, and, um, I was in a civil rights movement. I thought that's kind of what she meant. But, you know, I, you know, I already knew I was going to make a difference. But, um, because of who I am, you know, I was raised, I was raised. But, um, um, so one year my mother said, mama, mama, I made a difference. I made a difference. She said, what'd you do? What'd you do? She probably thought I created, like, rocket fuel.  She said, boy, I told you I was going to make a difference. Yeah, so I didn't make it. So one vote do count, you know what I mean. So, um, so I, so I made a difference. I mean, I do a lot of things. I'm a community organizer. I work on a new service provider. I, you know, like you said, I do a lot of things, you know, I'm on, you know, um, Democratic Chairman in select three, like, a month ago, and sitting on a lot of different things, and then formerly a commissioner in, um, when you ski. And, um, I was on board works for one year for parks and rinks and blah, blah, blah.  But, um, so, um, so those type of things that I did, well, in Burlington, first, first and foremost, when I first moved to Maple Street.  That was my, my, that's what I'm the best at is a community organizer, working with youth and, um, families and community. I'm the best at that. You know, I don't think I'm better than nothing, but that. Somebody want me to help them organize something. People do. A lot of cities, and the county asked me to help them pull the, like, I did something for the National Night Out. We did the Out and About event, we did doing things, you know. So, you know. Yeah, Juneteenth was spectacular in Burlington. Yeah, I know, it was there. It was amazing. He was hanging out, you know. You know, it was good to see him there. Just in the park over here all day, it was great. For food, incredible performances. Lots of learning, taking place. It was incredible. Wow, so I can't wait till next year. That's the first experience. You know, what's going to happen in the coming years? I think it's going to only grow and only get better. Well, I think that, um, I know Tahitia has something to do with that and Yasmine has something to do with Munozki and Ousimapuku has something to do with it. Oh, yeah, it was a huge effort. She planned that in essence. And so, um, they're only going to get better because I think the outcome measurements were saying that, you know, we need to do that. We used to think about better location and, you know, I think I don't know what you can do better in growing here. They had like many sites that they was running to.  They had like, um, Myra Flann perform and Craig Richard. It was, it was cool.  But, um, so, Max, let's talk about, um, City Council You guys got a lot of objectives with genders on me. Good Lord.  Yep, we met this past Monday. So we had a number of different things on the agenda. Everything from, um, the, uh, from, uh, the downtown tax increment financing district to, um, some zoning changes to, uh, a resolution having to do with the Sears Lane encampment and the future of, of that site, um, going forward. Um, that was kind of the primary item that we discussed on, on that day. Um, the progressive caucus's feeling is that, you know, we should really continue to try and create an effective management strategy for that site and that, um, we need to make sure that, you know, that, that people weren't just getting kicked out that they were actually, um, being placed in a situation where they had secure housing. Uh, if that was their choice, recognizing that, you know, we're, we're, we're wanting to stay on the site and to try and hopefully find a management strategy that would work for that. And so, um, that was the, the, the resolution that was brought, um, to, to the council on Monday. So that was seen pretty short, but you hear a lot of stuff.  So, I'm the best at that.  I don't, I don't, or you find work with or community people. And I tell stories that Tony Lam told me was, I don't know if he was a lawyer. He's a mediation lawyer years and years ago. He said, I was telling a story about me going to a Bailey Howell library at UVM to find out a law, he's a lawyer, he was a lawyer, to find out a law answer. And so I was telling him, like, when I went to this, and I'm talking to Tony, I went to Bailey Howell, I was talking to the rest of them. Can you tell me what the law books are? And she said, the black law books are around the corner. I'm thinking, you know, here's my psychologist, okay, I'll be objecting. I said, excuse me? She said, the black law books are around the corner, like a puppy, you know, to tell what they were like, sure enough, the name of the law books is black law books. And Tony was like, he didn't, he was like, yeah, yeah, yeah, what's, you know, he was like, what's up, what's the story? Keep going with the story. And so, when I found out the answer, I thought I found the answer, and it took me like over an hour to find an answer that I was looking for, I went to present the answer. And when Nate told me that Bruce, that's not the answer. I'm ready to flip the table over and like, yeah, that's the answer. You know, somebody probably forgot to put the amendment in the book. You know, so I'm telling Tony. So you saw like an outdated book or something like that? Yeah, so Tony told me, Bruce, Bruce, all you do is get an answer in five minutes. So after that, you know what I'm saying, I learned from the people who knows.  But I always tell them, if you need some answers from a doctor, lawyer, Indian chief, we know them all. We're going to take you right to them. We're going to talk to the president of the, in which we do, you work with our youth on creating, revising a resolution for you from Boston. We'll talk about it in a minute. And so, so that's how I'm the best at that. I have like, I always I get like 900 PhDs because I know the people who knows the answer. I don't try to know the answer myself about why, why, what are, you know what I mean. And you know the answer. Tony Lamb taught me that. So it just makes more sense. And that's why I tell these kids, that's why we know so many people. Because I go right to the people who knows the answer for these youth. And they get them right where they want to be at, you know what I mean.  Yeah, I had a debt. Wow, that was a good one.  Yeah. And I did, they supported you. I mean, I couldn't vote for you, but I did support you. Because I thought that, you know, Monroe was my friend for years.  So that was the reason where it's like, you know, that's why I support you in the best ways I could.  And I think a lot of people didn't hear those things from other candidates, like you said either. And so that's why you probably, you lost by what, two votes or something. Not quite that close, but it was still close.   And yeah, of course it's disappointing, but the reality is that I just feel incredibly grateful from all the support that I got from members of the community. Just, it was just absolutely incredible to feel that support from people, you know, just to see people stepping up continuously. You know, I feel nothing but gratitude for the opportunity that I had to be on that race. And just the support that people brought to the table was just absolutely incredible. So I can't say anything about the effort for sure. I think that, you know, if that had not been the case, maybe I'd feel differently.   You know, I know those girls growing up. But that's on the personal side, on the business side. I have some, you know, my own objectives about some things. But, so Mark, this is what I'm trying to say is that you gotta run again, bro. I don't know about that, but we'll see. We'll see, we'll see. I don't know. We'll see. We'll see it. You know, I think there's there's a long time between then and now.  Oh, it's over two years. So, so I'm, well, he's got he's got three year term now. Three year term, yes. It's a while. It's a while, yeah. He's like, we need three years, you know. Peter was like, Peter who else? Oh, right. Yeah, because it used to be two-year terms, and then Peter got to shift it over. And I can see that for sure. I mean, I think that a council term that's only two years is pretty short itself, in and of itself. Yeah, so you definitely have to, well, it's all up to you and your family, whoever, you know, what you want to do, but I'll see. So, I mean, what could be your next step as the President of the City, as the Burlington City Council? What could be your next step? I mean, where you would say, forget it? I don't know. I don't know. I mean, I really like serving on the council.  You know, I really enjoy that. And I try not to put too much stock into, you know, being too kind of coming up by just trying to focus on the task at hand right now. I don't really know what the next steps are in this, and I think part of that's also grounded in the fact that you just never know what's going to come up for you in your life. And so I just, you know, try and take it one step at a time and kind of see where it is. But, you know, for right now I'm really enjoying being on the council. No, not about it.  And so what is a city council president? What do you do? What's your job?  So it's a little bit different than being a regular city councilor because, you know, a city councilor just, you know, serving on the body, they're on committees and they're doing that work at that level as well. There's a variety of different standing committees that you serve on. And that's really where, you know, a good bit of your time can get focused. It can really take up a lot of your time and energy as a councilor to do that committee work. But when you're the council president, you don't serve on committees. For the most part, sometimes you'll fill in a little bit. But your role really becomes to put together the meeting. So in terms of getting all the different requests for the agenda, getting the agenda set in a way that's manageable and putting that together. And then the other piece is also running the meeting itself. So you get the agenda, get that out, and then you got to run the meeting itself and facilitate the meeting. And then there's all kinds of other things that come along with it. You know, like just managing different processes that happen over the course of the year. So that's kind of the role. It is certainly different than being just a councilor. You take a step back. The other piece is also that's different is that, you know, you're running the full council. You're running the full council meetings. You're really moderating. You're not, like, arguing the points and really entering into the debate. You're just kind of helping the debate to take place. So why did they choose you? Did it be the president or anything?  I had been on the council for eight years and so I felt like, you know, I had done committee work for a long time. I had never done the council president role. I wanted to challenge to have that challenge of running the meetings and shifting kind of my approach to my engagement within that body to this more facilitator kind of role and in that also just trying to help other counselors with getting their stuff, you know, getting new counselors situated. Those types of things. So I wanted to just do something different within it because, you know, after eight years of doing the counselor, the straight counselor role, it was nice to have the opportunity to do something a little bit different. So is the city council like on the board of directors for the mayor? I mean, like, you know, you guys in charge, is that how I work? Can you, like, impeach the mayor? No, we don't actually have an impeachment article in the charter and we're kind of, you know, there's, you know, we have kind of a two two different branches of city government. They're in many ways co-equal. There are some powers that are given to the mayor that the council just doesn't have or can't override. But in many cases, you know, you need both to be working together for city government to work effectively and a lot of the big choices require both, you know, approval and both the mayor and the council to move forward. And so you moved out about it. Yeah, they definitely, you know, the mayor always needs your approval to move forward. Like he says, a few things that he I don't think he can approve like planning his zoning and nothing like that. Nope, can't change zoning. He can't, you know, appoint department heads himself. He can't the budget, you know, he has to get the budget approved by the full city council. So there's, you know, there's a number of important functions that he has to work closely with the council on. But as a mayor, a Democrat? Oh, progress. I don't wish to stand this.  He's Democrat. So how many Democrats on the council? So there's four Democrats on the council. There's six progressives on the council. And then there's two independents. Councilors Barlow and Jiang are both independents and then you have the Democrats are counselors, Mason, Carpenter, Paul and Shannon. So what about Ding? Is he a, he's must be a Democrat, huh? No, he's an independent. He was a fusion candidate, meaning a Democrat and progressive, but then he's since shifted to being an independent in recent years. Well, I'll tell you something.    They feel the same way about that.  You know, I can see both ways. You know, I think there are people who feel, you know, a connection to both and I can understand that.  I think part of that comes from the very unique political culture of Burlington, which there are some very clear differences between Democrats and progressives specifically in the Burlington context.  You know, I think that Taylor's work really speaks for itself and so, you know, I understand that. You know, I know Taylor. She's such a cool person. She's awesome. You know, I met her with one of our events we put her on for the case around and she introduced me to that, you know, and it's good to know that she was from Winooski. So, I'm not knocking, I don't know, but I like everybody. I like everybody. I see what you're saying. It's a theoretical thing. It's not about a personal thing, it's a theoretical thing but the theory behind what you're saying there is that there are some real differences between the two parties and, you know, when you try and meld them what do you what do you really say? What's the statement there? So, it's complicated for sure. Yeah. It's easy for me as a new Democratic chairman for Winooski. It's going to be easy for me because, you know, when we're going to start raising funds for Democrats and working with state-level Democrat you know, chairman vice presidents, I mean, 80s and things like that. And so, I'm coming up because I'm just newly elected but so now, so it's going to everybody's liking my objectives and what I'm saying and what my team is saying about, definitely about money, you know, fundraising because, you know, I want my team to be able to go to the U.S.A. to learn about what other Democrats are doing actually talk about some I've learned some more objectives for us you know, let's go broaden our horizon and what that does and I'm probably preaching to the choir is if they go meet with people in Washington or wherever they go, you know what I mean, guess what? These two Winooski are going to be recognized and guess what happens? Economists come to town people want to build stuff here open up businesses kids want to, you know, come to Vermont for school you know what I'm saying, Mike Shepplain and that's what happens it happens that way. So like I was saying Max, I want to thank you for, man, you know help us write that, you know, believe it in new phone boards. You know, Brian Pine and Karen and Hanson of course, yeah the resolution the revised resolution about getting new phone boards I mean getting new phone boards as well as creating more boards and committees to consider and even some voting rights because like for me my organization she created in 2003 you know, we with the help of city council and everybody but you know it wouldn't happen without you guys but you know, I promote new phone boards around the state, I care what board like we have new phone boards on and you know we want new phone, new boards and every board that there is a board you should be on it and that's my objective and that's what we're going to be doing and that's what we've been doing and that's what we're going to continue to do but for you to step out, you know, like you are the president of the city council and he helped us in brand was part of the 2000 he helped us in 2003 when we first actually we have new phone boards city council and he was like hell yeah, you know and so you come right in you know like hell yeah you know I mean let's work together and revise this resolution and get it right and make sure everybody's supporting we had, I don't know, I don't know I think we had five or six because I think you know there's broad agreement that there's real value like you're saying to having youth on these boards and just providing input and getting involved in it you know I think we're going to be trying to see how this really revived effort goes and learn from that and continue to modify it and make sure that we're able to get the most value out of it for not only the youth themselves but also for the boards as well you raise the question of you know Burlington voter to actually vote on it on these commissions so you know there might be a need to change the charter in the future to allow for the youth members to be able to vote but I think that the key is that we're trying to just really make sure that we're involving youth in decision making you know and giving you the chance to really learn about their civic their sort of civic structures and engage with those structures in a more active way because sometimes it can be challenging to know how to get involved where to get involved and then even if you do to really you know have a seat at the table and so this is really saying you know you're going to have a seat at the table you're going to be able to participate and one of the things that I like that you all brought to the table in terms of the resolution itself that I thought was really good was that this idea of having a mentor on the board who's currently serving on the board to work directly with any youth members to sort of show them the ropes of how the board works and just some of the issues that are at play before that board so I think that that was one really good addition to the to the board structure and so are you I have you know I created youth on board for my organization around the state you know you know all of Chitty County you know we had high school weeks and even Fairhaven you know we had youth on board and so we don't call them we don't say you're my mentee everybody's a mentor in our organization everybody's a mentor because if you can't learn from that youth then we don't want you know you need to go we need to take you to some classes or something because if you can't learn from a youth man you know like and like let me tell you something like people like you know like we're part of youth service providers network coalitions and permanent health and one I'll tell you one year we had Shannon who was our youth board president in Rutland County and we got the Rutland youth advisory you know and they will go over all the executive directors and myself will go over go over what they did you know what was going on in their organization with the youth piece that they they direct and so so we're sitting there and I brought Shannon and one thing to anybody will tell you with the youth agenda items on it I'm always going to bring you you know I brought tons of youth here many years in city council here because to talk about what their goal street and aspiration was and you know it's important anybody will tell you that I'm always going to have youth with me if it's about a youth agenda if a youth on the agenda item but anyway so we was in Rutland advisory at some youth advisory committee and all the directors talked about all the fun things and things they were doing they were reporting out right all the cool things they do you know when one lady one of the directors said well we had we had a dance we had 50 kids there I thought how wonderful was that it was incredible we had 50 kids there at an event where there was no drugs and I called the Bakkel having a healthy outlet having a great time you know and then they said Bruce Bruce we know you had a dance too you know we had we had a youth center down on like 4,000 square feet and so and then they said how'd it go and we had it in the mall not in the space because it was and so Shannon I said Shannon you know first of all Shannon you know and they say and then Shannon said they said how did your dance go Shannon and she said oh man she said she said I knew I was going to have to you know tell me not to say something I said so I was just quiet listen to because I was laughing at the dance laughing at them during the dance how what they was feeling about the dance and so she said yeah I told my rest of my youth for a bit and said that we weren't going to show our face in town no more and that it was a flop you know they say it was a flop we couldn't show our face in town no more they didn't go well she said no it didn't go well she said well how many kids came she said 185 they said 185 that's that's a lot of that's incredible and she said well how was it a flop she said because we used to get over 300 kids there see because we use a peer-to-peer model and they and and a lot of not a lot of executive directors don't they they planted themselves they said oh use purple and how about the streamers and bring in the you know the dogs and cats you know you know and I don't we don't do that we like my job is to get the building get the permits get the security get this insurance you know that's my job their job is to bring in their peers you know and that's what they that's their job but anyway so so so I've been telling those you know we have we go to like my people which name that person that that nice restaurant up here with a capital is capital Plaza that nice little restaurant there we go there for coalition meetings and I've been telling them for years man that you need a youth advisory board not me I love all those people because they represent whoever they represent and a lot of them say that they can't get high school kids on their own on their board you know and I'm like for me it's because they need a youth advisory board they help them get their own damn kids I don't tell them I don't tell my youth board to to um you know they they find their own people that's what they're supposed to do you know and that's why it's easy for us to get you from boards and you from in part of something because on our own youth boards are people who are part of our organization go go bring bring your sister your boyfriend because all of them when they come and be a part of our programs that we actually educate around drugs and alcohol and tobacco opiate effects you know things like that guess what that's very important so we bring in 30 people you want to because guess what you know because everybody around youth advisory boards got to go to these meetings about drugs and alcohol tobacco and guess what if nobody else come but the uh are you four members guess what just 30 30 kids in our an event getting education about drugs and alcohol tobacco you know we don't we don't care you know nothing we don't care about um we don't care so you know so the more we have on our advisory board you know for my organization the better it is you know we can have a dance party and damn stuff and nobody you know all the people they invite they don't have to come so so that's so that's that's a lesson and I was telling people at the coalition meetings years ago I stopped going to them personally but um because you know they don't have youth they don't have well they all I love I love them all because they all they work with the no I really do because they work of course yeah we know we they work with youth and they work with you mostly they say they can't get high so we know they work with elementary middle school kids you know we know they work with them so we need them to work with them we need them to work with everybody they can work with 50 kids 10 kids we need them to work with them and so I'm not knocking nobody but but I think for me my objective personal objective are you need a youth advisory board to help you decide on the things that they want to do in life come on yeah and that's what we were trying to get at with this resolution on the boards and commissions for sure let me just tell you one thing about um um like this you know like like adults and say I've been there done that right yeah you've been there done that yeah kind of theory because guess what if you were back in caveman days if you were um if you drink a bottle of vodka guess what you're gonna get drunk everybody feel the thing and you drink once a day you're probably gonna get drunk but the thing is how did you learn about drinking it you know so now it's like social media it's like great goose making loose you know I mean you know it's all these ways these youth are learning how to drink and smoking risky behaviors it's not how we I know it's not how it's not how you learn maybe it's definitely shifted that's what I'm trying to say so so when adults say that they've been there done that they haven't they haven't yeah you don't understand yeah they don't get it they can make decisions for these youth without you know without um accident so that's so you got me on that one right that's something that for years yeah for sure it's for real it's for real instead they um what it's social media stuff that youth um know that you and I don't have no clue on maybe stuff that they need to tell me about stuff that I don't know names and nothing about it but so Max so we probably got like two minutes or whatever um man I really appreciate you coming on the show I appreciate you help create the youth on we're gonna move forward you know I I got a new person that work on his name is Evelina Zerka she's uh from Bronson technical um very cool she's awesome she's my intern she's paid the intern for it does that's incredible I know man she's like you know she's so like you know she's like gone home she's like so excited to be that's great you know yeah she's definitely boost on the ground and uh so you will get to meet her could I could I told you you will get to meet her you know I told her that she will get to meet you you know you know see that's another thing too here's a youth on my work who say I said guess what you gonna you gonna get to work not only meet the president of Bronson but work with him how would you think they're worth in their worth is why do you feel their worth isn't when they hear something like that you know man that's gigantic for those youth you know man it builds and it builds their self-esteem yeah absolutely that's the other piece of this the youth on board's piece for sure right so yeah so what do you got anything you got anything you want to say no we cut out of here no I appreciate it no thanks I really appreciate it's been great to great conversation really appreciate it yes I appreciate it look forward to keep working with you in the the other incredible youth that work with your organization thank you so much so yeah thanks everybody for tuning in to straight talk for Macho and Bruce Wilson is Max Tracy Bronson city council president