And welcome back to our live broadcast of the sitting of the Senate. We have just come back from our lunch break. And I am your anchor for today, Jacques Hinson Compton. Before we went on the break, we had a very lengthy discussion on the very first motion debated, presented and discussed out of the five motion scheduled for today. In addition, we have obviously four more motions and one bill scheduled for the end of today. We have just had the sergeant of arms enter the chambers along with the president of the Senate. Please stay tuned to the National Television Network and follow us on our social media platforms. Honourable senators, I believe when we arose earlier on, we had just concluded voting on the first motion. We can continue with our business. I don't see the leader of government business here as yet. Allow him, I think he was, I just saw him instead, I would allow him a few minutes, about three minutes or so. In section 631A of the Public Finance Management Act, number 14 of 2020, the act, the minister of finance may, by an affirmative resolution of parliament, borrow from a bank or other financial institution for the capital or current expenditure of government. And whereas it is further resolved by section 64 of the act, that money borrowed by the government must be paid into and from and form part of the consolidated fund. And whereas the minister of finance considers it necessary to borrow from the European investment bank the sum of euro, 13,500,000 euro. Finance emergency operating expensive in the health sector related to the COVID-19 virus pandemic. And whereas the loan is repayable over a period of 20 years from the date of the first disbursement of the loan, inclusive of a four-year grace period. And whereas the loan payments shall be made consecutive equal semi-annual installments. And whereas the loan payments shall commence after the grace period of four years. And whereas the interest is payable A at a fixed rate of 1.35% to 1.45% to be determined by the European investment bank at the time of disbursement of each tranche. B, at a floating rate of three months, euro interbank offered rates plus 110 basis points to 120 basis points per annum. B, it resolved that parliament authorizes the minister of finance to borrow from the European investment bank the sum of euro, 13,500,000. Finance emergency operating expenses in the health sector related to COVID-19 virus pandemic. B, it further resolved that A, the loan is repayable over a period of 20 years from the date of the first disbursement of the loan, inclusive of a four-year grace period. B, the loan shall be made in consecutive equal semi-annual installments. C, the loan payments shall commence after the grace period of four years expires. D, the interest is payable one at a fixed rate of 1.35% to 1.45% to be determined by the European investment bank at the time of disbursement of each tranche. B, at a floating rate of three months, euro interbank offered rate plus 110 basis points to 120 basis points per annum. Mr. President, I may offer some explanation to regard to this motion. This motion really is requesting or is seeking the permission of government to access this financing from the European investment bank to cover expenses incurred by the COVID emergency operating expenses. And if we can go back to some of the discussion we had earlier, some of these expenses incurred, unfortunately, in the last term. They were justified because we had a COVID pandemic and things had to be done. But we must know, still paying loans, we are now still paying loans. And that is why earlier on I made reference to what we inherited. We are now still paying for quarantine expenses. All of these monies were borrowed. I did mention, Mr. President, over $300 million. But we are currently still owing for quarantine services. I believe that these could have been written off already. Mr. President, we are still paying for vaccines that were ordered. And I will get back to that a little later, perhaps at a different stage of this discussion. This government is still saddled with over, it was originally what, $7 million, $6 million? Some was paid, we still saddled with over $5 million. I think that with a claim that vaccines were ordered and we still have not received those vaccines. But we are paying for that. Mr. President, there are other areas in the health sector, in addition to just the quarantine and the vaccines, that this loan intends to help strengthen. We now have heard of all the various variants of COVID. And we do not want to be in a position where we have to be reactive. There's also the looming threat of monkeypox. We've heard it in other parts of the world and because we're a country that has traffic with tourists and eventually some of those external issues will find themselves at our doorsteps. We're not waiting for a situation where we are visited by one of these unfortunate unwanted circumstances to be reactive. We want to be prepared. And so as we speak, the Ministry of Health is currently putting measures in place to ensure that should we have a case or should we have a situation that presents itself, that we are ready to deal with it. And so part of this will be put towards measures to mitigate against such eventualities. We are hoping that we will not have to deal with it. But just in case, Mr. President, we want to be prepared. We also, Mr. President, by way of example, want to compliment some of what we've already started doing as a government in the health service upon assuming office. We inherited a situation where the health sector was under tremendous stress. And I think members on both sides can agree that the health sector workers, the frontline workers, the emergency services of this country, they've taken a serious battering. Some of them are essentially tired and drawn out and beaten with all of the stresses that they're about to deal with. We've tried to give them some relief. But one of the things that this will do is to help to further strengthen the various aspects of health, the health sector. And one of them was mentioned by the Minister of Health when he made reference to eight additional chairs and one dialysis unit that we have already purchased to improve the services offered for non-COVID related health issues. So while we do this, Mr. President, we must not keep our eyes focused on one particular issue. We know that COVID is a major one. But if we can work towards improving the overall health services, the overall health of the country, our people will be more able to deal with the other issues that come up. As we have heard in previous discussions, most of the deaths that were caused by the first wave of the Delta variant was as a result of pre-existing conditions, diabetes, high blood pressure, hypertension. We believe that if you can put systems in place to help to manage general health, primary health services, the various health care centers at the hospitals and we'll get to the hospitals a little later. Mr. President, you can then minimize or cushion some of the impact that can be caused by a disease like COVID. So it's not just responding to COVID as a single phenomenon, but really working on improving the entire health sector so that we are more resilient and more resistant to any pending pandemic or other unforeseen health emergency. So Mr. President, I use those just by way of context, but I believe that this particular motion seeks to make use of these finances to help us to be a little more proactive and to be ready in the event of an unforeseen health-related situation as well as strengthening the existing situation that we have in this country. So I hope that we can find reason to give support to that initiative given the few examples and the context that I have established. Thank you, Mr. President. Be it resolved that Parliament authorizes the Minister of Finance to borrow from the European Investment Bank the sum of Euro $13,500,000 to finance emergency operating expenses in the health sector related to COVID-19 virus pandemic. Be it further resolved that, A, the loan is repayable over a period of 20 years from the date of first disbursement of the loan, inclusive of a four-year grace period. B, the loan payments shall be made in consecutive equal semi-annual installments. C, the loan payments shall commence after the grace period of four years expires. D, the interest is payable. One, at a fixed rate of 1.35% to 1.45% to be determined by the European Investment Bank at a time of disbursement for each tranche. Two, at a floating rate of three months Euro into bank offered rate plus 110 basis points to 120 basis points per annum. Senator Fede. Thank you very much, Mr. President. I just want to add a few comments to this motion which seeks to borrow some 13.5 million euros equivalent Eastern Caribbean $36,585,000 as part of a broader package today by this administration to borrow some 134.5 million dollars. Mr. President, the reason cited by the administration is for the emergency operating in health sector to manage a COVID pandemic. Mr. President, we find it ironic that we come to the house to seek to borrow to beef up the health management to manage the pandemic on the eve of carnival when we're going to have thousands of solutions in just a few days that will be going to various activities. In fact, it will be climaxed by the festivities of what we've known as the Carnival Monday and Tuesday activities. Before this, Mr. President, I recall that the Solution Medical and Dental Association expressed tremendous concern about the unvaxed activities leading up to Carnival and the potential that these may cause for the debilitating impact of COVID on the healthcare system of our country. And so, forgive me, Mr. President, that I find this ironic. I also question, Mr. President, whether they move to come to borrow these monies at this time is, in part, responsible for a notion by the government that perhaps most of our citizens are distracted by carnival activities and so, therefore, to pass through these bills to borrow loans could somehow be masked in the distraction of carnival festivities. I ask a question. I'm not necessarily going to jump to any assumptions because I don't have the evidence, but I think it's a worthwhile question to ask. Mr. President, I shall not cast any conclusive judgment on the decision to have unvaxed carnival activities or whether to have a vaccinated Monday and Tuesday. Two weeks after carnival, I will cast my judgment as to whether it was, in fact, a good or bad decision to hold carnival festivities at a time when the government is admittedly accepting that the COVID pandemic is not over. I think we also need to ask whether there has been a very thorough analysis done because I understand the event sector, they've been bleeding, a lot of carnival bands, a lot of musicians, the creative industry sector and the cultural sector, they have come under severe pressures as a result of the pandemic. And so, on the one hand, I feel somewhat happy that there is some economic activity that is going to happen as a result of hosting the carnival. But have we done a thorough analysis to ensure that the impacts of having carnival, that the results, the ramifications, how is that going to affect the broader economic growth, the broader economic momentum that the country badly needs right now? That is an important question to ask the administration whether that thorough analysis has been done. So, to put it in simple terms, what I'm basically trying to say, Mr. President, is that if we have carnival, what is going to be the result of people reporting sick and cannot go to work? How much the private sector and small and large and medium-sized businesses are going to have to stump up for sick leave, whether in fact, if there is an outbreak, whether the CDC or the U.S. State Department are going to have the normal travel advisory? And what impact is that going to have on the international travel community and industries like tourism, for example? Will this slow down other sectors? Will this cause a slowing down of the retail sector, which too have been through very, very, very terrible times because of the onslaught of COVID-19? But those are questions that I'm putting to the administration. You are in government now. I realize that a lot has been said about the fiscal situation, which has done successive administrations for decades. And it is now up to this government, rather than blaming any previous administration. You know, you can't change the past. So let's assume that you are correct that UWP has borrowed and we have been reckless. Let's say I agree with you. Okay? Now, I want to ask you, what are you going to do to take St. Lucia out of the hole that you suggest that it's in? What is your debt management strategy? What is your economic strategy? What is your strategy for growth? How are you going to create jobs that people need? How are you going to get back tourism from where it is? The last year, we see that tourism had recovered 47% when compared to where it was in 2019. Now, how are you going to get back that extra 53% of economic growth from your main sector, which is going to drive jobs, which is going to drive economic activity? What are your plans when we have airlines that are now having difficulty in cancelling hundreds of flights because of shortages in staff, meaning pilots and flight attendants and other important employees to ensure that those flights happen? These are serious questions that the government has got to grapple with. And these are the answers. You can't blame UWP for your entire term. For the last year, the first year, I'm frankly not impressed with the way that you've articulated the way out because even when you're in charge, you want to blame the UWP for your decision to implement the passport strategy. You want to blame the UWP for your decision to allow the buskers to go up on the backs of the people of St. Lucia. So it is time that this administration takes responsibility and shows leadership to the country because in your own words, we are in very difficult times. And none of us on this side will deny that the economic circumstances that is brought about by COVID and your favorite line, the Ukraine war, because today, if it rains in St. Lucia, it's the Ukraine war as well. So what I'm saying to you is that this is the hand that you have been dealt. Previous prime ministers have had to deal with the financial crisis of 2008. I've had to deal with natural disasters and hurricanes, but they have stood up and they have led and they have taken St. Lucia forward. So your excuses are not going to cut it, all right? It is time that leadership at every level in the St. Lucia Labor Party administration is truly transformed. Mr. Speaker, Mr. President, the COVID-19 pandemic is what I know very well and the challenges that we face because myself and Senator Stanislaus are part of a cabinet that dealt with the peak of the pandemic. There were no vaccines in the world. No one knew what to do. And so, of course, yes, we had to get quarantine facilities. And I'm proud to say that we had some of the best quarantine facilities in the Caribbean because while they were using schools and run-down community centers and we see pictures coming in from other islands, which reflect subpar conditions, we ensured that we did the best for the people of St. Lucia and we went ahead and we incurred the cost to ensure that the people that had to be quarantined, that they were quarantined safely, responsibly and in a manageable manner. But instead, why did we see while the country was going through this difficult time? The St. Lucia Labor Party, as it has done always, decided that it was going to have a big grand march, right, so that what you can do is create a super spreader in this country and it was one of the worst decisions. And you talk about recklessness, it's one of the worst examples of recklessness that I've seen by any political party. You are the only political party in the Caribbean in the height of the pandemic that you have decided to go and hold a political march because you're only convinced by one thing. You are driven and motivated by politics only and that is why you are suffering today with the challenges that you're feeling. You have no problems. You don't know what to do about the price of gas. Let me show you what they're doing in St. Kitts, right? This is St. Kitts, this is Jamaica. While you are complaining that nothing could be done, I'm going to cite two examples of Caribbean countries that are bringing relief to their citizens and they are facing the same Ukraine war, they are facing the same high gas prices. But let me quote the private... Mr. President, I rise on a point of order. I know the member was not in his chair when I rebutted and believe now he's trying to mislead the house and making a statement that we said and I was the one who made the statement and he's trying to make a statement to the contrary that we can do nothing about the price of gas. I stood here a couple of hours ago and gave concrete examples of what this government is doing using figures in response to his previous claim. I used cooking gas, 20-pound cylinder, 22-pound cylinder using figures as well as cushioning the price of gasoline to explain that he's standing up now and attempting to make it seem that we have said on this side that we can do nothing. The statement is grossly misleading, Mr. President. The member, if he was in his chair, he would have known that he should not have said that but I give him the benefit since he wasn't there. I'm reminding him that on this side of the house we have explained what we are doing about the price of gas. We use the examples and I think he should not continue to suggest that we are saying we could do nothing about the price of gas before he proceeds. I thought he should be aware of it. This is what happens when you absent yourself from your chair, from this house as Senator Ferdinand said and as I do recall and the record would indicate he did explain the government approach to handling the gas crisis and so your statement is somewhat not in sync. It demonstrates that you were ignorant in so far as what he discussed earlier on but I think you've made your point. You may continue. Mr. President, I shall forgive him. He's a politician of very recent vintage so he wouldn't know the facts. Mr. President, the Prime Minister is quoted as saying when asked by the press the current Minister of Finance which is the party leader and the government leader has said that he can do nothing about the price of gas that the inflation problems that St. Lucia is facing Mr. President said. Senator Ferdinand, I have given you a great leeway at times and I tend to do the same with all of the senators.  The motion before us is to authorize the Minister of Finance to borrow from the European Investment Bank some 13,500,000 euros to finance emergency operating expenses in the health sector related to COVID-19 virus pandemic. Could you explain to me what does it have to do with the price of gas and all of that? It has nothing to do with that. So I would advise you to stay focused and speak to the motion as before this house. Very well Mr. President. So as I was saying before the COVID-19 pandemic we intimately understand the economic challenges, the complexities. And so Mr. President, if I had to make a link between what is the COVID-19 pandemic how with the price of gas you would have remembered that all day that the members on this side they have blamed two things. One is the Ukraine war and the other the COVID pandemic about supply chain shocks. And as a result it's affecting all commodities whether it is gas, whether it is commodities in the supermarket. So there is a very strong nucleus Mr. President if you would just allow me to draw the link that exists between the Ukraine war. But I am guided by you Mr. President and I shall move on. So what we intimately understand is the economic ravages that could come about because of COVID-19. For that reason when we were dealing with the COVID-19 pandemic and the monies that they said that we borrowed I will tell you where the money went. I will tell you where the money went. The money Mr. President went into beefing up and shoring up the healthcare sector. This loan which they have come to borrow is a UWP idea. We negotiated this loan. And they have basically come and to follow suit with the same strategy. They have had a choice to decide that they are going to repurpose the loan or not go ahead with the loan because they are in charge now of the government. So basically we did give the people income support. We tapped into the NIC but there were 6000 individuals that were unrecorded or unregistered employees who got monies from our COVID response funds which we draw down from the international donor community. And so we didn't just promise income support we delivered to 11,000 via the NIC program as well as another 6000 people who benefited outside of the NIC contributions. And those monies were borrowed from the IMF rapid response facility which was made available to all Caribbean countries. Mr. President, but we did more than that. The healthcare system was worse than it was now and gradually governments are making improvements. So one of the things that we had to do was to establish a respiratory facility. Reestablish Victoria Hospital as a respiratory hospital to get that going. We established the quarantine facilities and yes, if this administration is dealing with the expenses one year later, just imagine if you weren't paying that now the crisis, the disaster the humanitarian crisis that we would have had to deal with. And so I want to thank the hotel community for being such great partners in understanding that there were cash flow challenges as they are now, right? You are in a better position now at least you've got the tourism sector 50% back and you're in a better position now to pay your bills than we could have been. And so to say that we're only now paying the tax the expenses of quarantine facilities is a bit disingenuous. We had to beef up the testing facility as we long and the forensic lab you would recall that after Christmas of 2020 there was a massive outbreak that was caused on the island and to deal with that that overwhelmed our capacity to be able to test and we beefed it up in quick time we got it organized while it was difficult for supplies to move across the world and the challenges that we were facing then we got it done to ensure that we could respond and manage the island's worst health crisis in history the there was the beefing up of the health sector human resource capacity by the mobilization of the Cuban Medical Brigade which helped our doctors and nurses and other health professionals to ensure that they are in a good position and in the best position to fight the pandemic Mr. President all of this was done on the social relief side we helped with electricity bills of thousands of solution families because it was very difficult 15,000 people lost their jobs and we responded Mr. President by doing that we expand the list of vulnerable persons because COVID brought about more vulnerability and our government responded to it so when they asked the question about where the money went to this is where it went local farmers and our fishermen by buying their produce to take foods to vulnerable groups of persons I remember one night at Nemo we had hundreds of volunteers coming out and we were working there overnight to deliver some 15,000 care packages to 15,000 families in the country that's where the money went to when you talk about where the money went to we got 24 ventilators which was recommended by the WHO for a population or size and whilst you saw that developed countries countries that were more wealthy than St. Lucia that you would have thought would have been able to overcome shortages I remember Governor Cuomo in New York taking the federal government to task about the state of New York not having sufficient ventilators and as a result it undermined the ability of that country to be able to manage the pandemic we were much better off in St. Lucia where we had adequate ventilators for the sick population during the time when we were managing the crisis and so Mr. President yes we support this bill yes we support this motion because this is a motion that we negotiated but what we don't support what we don't support is the duplicity we don't support the politics we don't support the misleading of the population we don't support Mr. President the lack of detail that exists here and the lack of clear understanding of senators on the government side as to what is required now most ironic and our judgment our final judgment on whether the decision to have unvaccinated events for carnival season whether that decision is one that will not come back to haunt us as a country Mr. President with that I thank you Senator Reynolds very much Mr. I wish to stand to give my support to this for the borrowing of 13,500,000 euros for the health sector in this country and Mr. President I think information has been put forward in terms of what the money will be used for emergency operating expenses in the health sector related to COVID-19 as it turns to vaccines as it pertains to medium to long term post-COVID health instruments Mr. President I am happy to hear that the leader of the opposition business here supports the motion for borrowing however it's always seem to come across that we are playing politics and we are leaving people in the dark Mr. President I think the minister for health explained in the lower house and I think also the leader of government business give explanations as to what is being purchased, what is on the respiratory units the chairs for the analysis units to strengthen intensive care unit for patients who have respiratory diseases the lab capacity for testing information is being given the update of the IT and other equipment and software stockpiling of medical equipment and medicines providing for vaccine support and logistics Mr. President we recall getting 8 million dollars providing vaccines through the WHO and PAHO this former administration gave out to deal with vaccine situation and other logistics we are being to be playing politics we are giving information, we want to strengthen transport and surveillance when we came into government Mr. President I'm sure you recall the minister for health updates in terms of what was done in the hospital which was completely ready to be transitioned into but health city came and would have been today but we had no choice but to get out of Victoria hospital and go into OKEU and give the people of St. Louis what was negotiated in the EU for them which is a first class health facility in the OKEU and so even when the Victoria hospital was transformed into a respiratory clinic there was much to be done and I agree the former administration had to spend money to improve the services but they did a whole lot of painting on the outside but we saw the patients themselves posting videos of what was happening in the hospital and so this government had to find money to improve the services so that the patients could speak to their loved ones and the doctors and so that they could buy protective equipment for frontline workers. What is that? Borrowing calling people to give money so that they could buy protective equipment for frontline workers so when we are about playing politics I like Mr. President I like us to just be just to be open I like us to deal with the business of this country what is just like they did previously if you have one, two questions political game I repeat Mr. President this is not a political game these are trying times for the people of this country and so the government has no choice even if they wanted to play politics they have no choice but to do what is absolutely necessary to strengthen the health care system as I said all of our people who passed and made a rest in peace and the families continue to be strengthened because they have loved loved ones, a lot of them had underlying conditions many others would not take the because they are too scared to do so but we look at the situation underlying conditions and so we must not throw our hands in the air and say we can't do anything we must do what is absolutely the health care system the primary health care system in the health centers to do what is absolutely necessary so people can have health and wellness they can do the early testing they can go to the doctors in the health centers in the communities and get them medication this is why we are doing what we are doing and so yes we want to strengthen all the logistics we want to strengthen the systems in our health sector to respond and as we continue to get out of COVID to respond to the COVID situation we want to address the gaps in the public health care system we want to do all what is necessary to continue to save lives and so Mr. President I again reiterate my support for this motion of borrowing of the people of San Lucia in strengthening our health care system I thank you Leader of the government business Thank you Mr. President I thank the two senators who contributed to the debate just by way of response to some of the issues that were raised by the leader of the government business I noted that he was carefully ensuring that when the figures were presented in terms of the 13.5 million euro that he ensured that the figures were also quoted in EC dollars looks like opposition has done him well in government everything was US dollars and you know it's nice to hear that we pay attention to the EC equivalents so I commend the opposition for learning something I may want to take back some of what I said earlier that they haven't learned I think they're starting to learn also Mr. President I think the leader of the government business did allude to the issue of carnival the opposition business did allude to the issue of carnival I suspect that throughout the course of his deliberations on this motion on strengthening and covid response the bulk of his contribution seemed to have focused on carnival now I know he was a former tourism minister so I empathize but I want to remind him that he should know of all persons in this chamber the impact, the economic impact that the tourism sector has on this country right now and the valuable economic benefits of the hundreds and thousands of persons who take the opportunity to travel to this country because of carnival so I want to remind the house that this this motion is not about carnival but it's about health Mr. President the leader of opposition business also spoke about the issue confronting the markets and whether there are some concerns about flights in some countries our source markets I think this is true and some of these external factors we have considered so as a proactive government the tourism ministry has embarked upon some serious analysis and aggressive marketing to ensure that we explore other source markets because we know that our major source markets have been US and UK and right now we have serious issues in the regional markets and that is mainly because of the LIAT issue and so we have been proactive just to provide him with some response that now that we are trying to strengthen our health care resilience and our health care system that we ensure that whatever activities are happening out there we have alternatives to what we currently have Mr. President the issue of bills being paid and the government I think the opposition leader of opposition business stressed on the investment that the government then made on quarantine facilities to make persons comfortable and compare the level of comfort I have no issues with that if the government felt that we should invest in quarantine at the time I think that was okay my issue is these quarantine facilities were being used with a cost the government borrowed in excess of $300 million in the name of COVID why is it why is it that today 2022 July this government is still saddled with quarantine debt the IMF gave you the money for COVID related expenses quarantine facilities were part of your COVID related expenses you procured the services or you secured the services of these quarantine facilities to house persons for during that time why is it that after borrowing so much money that we now have to be paying for quarantine it was not a loan you were giving it's an expense that was there that should have been paid this government should not have been paying for quarantine services today so Mr President I don't understand why the leader of opposition business who was in government who supported his then Prime Minister in borrowing all of this money that we now have to pay back for that particular purpose is now sitting over there and justising us who are trying to pay the bills they include that they were for the country and we are not complaining that they should have had quarantine but you had money to pay for it pay your debts we are still paying for vaccines pay your debts you borrowed the money for that purpose I'll say it in Creole government you had money to pay for COVID you could have spent $300 million for your debt to be paid for COVID you had money to pay for COVID you could have had quarantine I still you had money to pay for COVID I still government after paying for quarantine who are doing this for COVID and so Mr. President I think it is grossly unfair for anyone on this side of the house to ask this government questions about borrowing to now go and pay for the same debts that they include and they got money to pay so now we have to pay the debts that they have borrowed the money that they borrowed which is already on our debt stock and then we have to now find additional money to pay for the same things that they borrowed to pay it doesn't make sense that means we are borrowing twice for the same reason and I think Mr. President you know full well what was done in those monies I don't want to get into that today or right now but as we go on in the term of this government a lot of these things will come to the fore and they will be dealt with at the appropriate time so Mr. President in closing I want to thank our members who contributed and I want us to remind and assure this honorable senate that every cent of this money will be put towards exactly what it says the strengthening of our health sector and the efforts towards dealing with the COVID induced situation that we have I thank you Mr. President be it resolved that parliament authorizes the minister of finance to borrow from the European investment bank the sum of euro of 13 million 500,000 9th emergency operating expenses in the health sector related to COVID-19 virus pandemic be it further resolved that A, the loan is repairable over a period of 20 years from the date of first disbursement of the loan inclusive of a four-year grace period B, the loan payments shall be made in consecutive equal semi-annual installments C, the loan payments shall commence after the grace period of four years expire D, the interest is payable one at a fixed rate of 1.35% to 1.45% to be determined by the European investment bank at the time of disbursement for each tranche and two at a floating rate of 3 months euro into bank offered rate plus 110 business points to 120 business points per annum I now put the question as many as are of that opinion say I as many as are of a country opinion say no I think the eyes of it the eyes of it the government business Mr. President I beg to move the following motion standing in my name as it is provided by section 63.1 of the Public Finance Management Act number 14 of 2020 the act of finance may by an affirmative resolution of parliament borrow from a bank or other financial institution for the capital or current expenditure of government and whereas it is further provided by section 64 of the act that money borrowed by the government must be paid into and form part of the consolidated data fund and whereas the minister of finance considers it necessary to borrow the amount of $8 million from the international development association for the organization of the eastern Caribbean states data for decision making project and whereas the service charge is the greater of A, the sum of 3 fourths of 1% per annum plus the basis adjustment of to the service charge and B 3 fourths of 1% per annum under withdrawn credit balance and whereas the maximum commitment charge rate is one half of 1% per annum on the un-withdrawn finance balance and whereas the loan is repayable in 40 years commencing from the date of disbursement of the loan inclusive of a grace period of 10 years and whereas the principal amount of the loan is repayable on each 15th day of March and 15th day of September each year commensurate with the following terms A, 1% of the loan amounts commencing on the 15th day of September 2032 including the 15th 2032 and including the 15th day of March 2042 B, 2% of the loan amounts commencing on the 15th day of September 2042 2% and including the 15th day of March 2062 B, it resolved that parliament authorizes the minister of finance to borrow an amount of US $8 million from the International Development Association to finance the organization of Eastern Caribbean States data for decision making project B, it further resolved that A, the service charge is a greater of 1, the sum of 3 fourths of 1% per annum plus the basis adjustment to the service charge and 2, 3 fourths of 1% per annum on the withdrawn credit balance B, the maximum commitment charge is 1 half of 1% per annum on an un-withdrawn financial balance C, the loan is repayable in 40 years commencing from the date of disbursement of the loan including a grace period of 10 years D, the principal amount of the loan is repayable on each 15th day of March and 15th day of September each year commensurate with the following terms 1% of the loan amounts commencing on the 15th day of September 2032 2 and including the 15th day of March 2042 2% of the loan amount commencing on the 15th day of September 2042 2 and including the 15th day of March 2062 is the president if I may just offer some explanation with regard to this particular motion this motion as it is called OECS data for decision making initiative if I can call it really is something that not only Saint Lucia but other Caribbean countries like Grenada St. Vincent and the Grenadines have taken advantage of accessing Saint Lucia accessing 8 million and the other countries different amounts this is a general move by these countries and rightfully so to improve our ability to make decisions that are driven by data and I think I must credit all the OECS countries that have decided to go in that direction it is a very basic principle in any profession or any practice that decisions made based on data authentic data that is gathered is usually more properly guided and it is best practice and in this country I have witnessed in my few years on this earth several decisions that have been made and I don't want to chastise any particular government at this point by both governments private sector and others that were not properly researched that were not based on sound authentic data that were not informed by empirical evidence that have cost the country and cost others a lot of pain it is not good practice to just make decisions based on feeling or based on a hunch or some kind of arbitrary feel it is important that research and data guides what we do and I think it is moving in the right direction I think it is forward thinking I think it is progressive and I commend the government of St. Lucia as well as the other governments of the OECS who have decided to take advantage of this opportunity I just want to give three examples of what the breakdown of this loan is intended to do Mr President one of them a sum of 3.5 million US is going to be committed for statistical modernization and capacity building the census operation comes to mind as we know Mr President every 10 years we have a national census I think it is going on right now and basically what a census does is gather information on two main things living conditions and socio-economic situation of households but I think in that 10 year gap so much can happen in a country and I think if we have to rely on only that single initiative to guide our policymaking and our decision making as a government I think we will be falling short because let's just compare how things have changed between say the decade 2010 to 2020 I mean who would have thought that in 2019 we would have had to be locked down we would have had to make all these changes in our lives and we cannot really plan for those if we gather data a lot more regularly a lot more systematically in all of the sectors in this country agriculture for food production anticipate trends in the global sector in education in sustainable development which is a big issue now in the banking and financing in science and technology I think we are better placed to make informed decisions that is what data based decision making does you have a basis, a scientific basis upon which to make decisions and I really applaud this initiative another one Mr. President another area that some of this money is going to is a total of 3.7 million for data collection and analysis data collection is just one aspect of the use of data and anyone here who has done formal research understands that I think all of us here have done that we've done most of us have had tertiary level education and we understand that in the process you don't just gather the data you can gather it and put it on a shelf and it has no meaning no use you can even gather it and interpret it badly or analyze it poorly and then you make the wrong decision so if you have the expert knowledge the resources to first gather data and then to analyze it properly then you are in a position to make decisions that are relevant Mr. President finally by way of example some of 800,000 US is being put towards project implementation and again that is critical because once you've been able to establish what the data is picking up you've been able to analyze it properly and decide what you do your priorities and each of your decisions then one of the serious challenges becomes implementation and I know many governments of the past who have had good policies very good policies both St. Lucia and others and United Workers Party governments in the past I can't really speak of the last one but previous to that and the Lucia Labour Party governments and other regional governments they had stated good stated intentions they had outlined certain policies very well articulated but they did not implement they failed to implement because there was no serious implementation plan in place to ensure that these policies were translated into action that was meaningful and contributed to the country's development and so it is important that as part of the effort we don't only gather data and analyze data and put the mechanisms in place for it but we also prepare for proper implementation of what the data is telling us to do so I really believe that this is a very comprehensive approach to it and I'm very happy that these various aspects will lead out and finally Mr President I want to just mention that it is important at this time 2022 when we have a real fast-paced technologically advanced world that we we make use of timely access to data timely access to the information you want is critical there are things we try to find out but by the time we go find it out it's way too late it's not relevant anymore and if we had that information before we would have been better placed to make a decision and a good example of that is Mr President I will not be distracted but just to be relevant had some analysis been done about the relevance of e-books in 2020 or 2018 whenever it was introduced we would not have had a stack of that in the office somewhere near the parliamentary secretary for education now that we have nothing to do with that we are now paying, we have to pay licenses for, we have to pay the cost and the students have, they're not using it and now we have to go back to give them the laptops I don't think that there was proper data analysis and proper collection of information to guide that behaviour and so the implementation was bad and so the timely collection of data was critical when you get the information can decide whether you are going to make the right decision or the wrong decision so I really applaud the initiative that on the intention of this motion and I really hope that it is going to put us in a better position to be better informed on the decisions that we make on behalf of the citizens of this country thank you Mr President it resolved that parliament authorizes the minister of finance of US 8 million from the international development association to finance the organization of eastern current states data for decision making project be it further resolved that A, the service charge is the greater of one the sum of three fourths of one percent per annum plus the basis adjustment to the service charge and two, three fourths of one percent per annum on the withdrawn credit balance B the maximum commitment charge is one half of one percent per annum on the withdrawn finance and balance C the loan is repairable in 40 years commencing from the date of disbursement of the loan inclusive of a grace period of 10 years the principal amount of the loan is repairable on each 15th day of March of September commensurate with the following terms one one percent of the loan amount commencing on the 15th day of September 2032 and including the 15th day of March 2042 two percent of the loan amounting two percent of the loan amount commencing on the 15th of September 2042 two and including the 15th day of March 2062 I now put the question as many as are that opinions here I no I could I'm not going to put the question if it is well the point is when I looked there were no lights on I didn't say it but your lights would not on when I when I looked I took my time and looked around the room there were no lights on no no no but you missed the boat said it to said you don't need to remind me of what my job is you need to pay attention that is what you need to do pay attention if you protect the minority then do what you have to do to help protect the interest pay attention to respond I would like to respond just because I have the minorities interest at heart not because you are procedurally correct you are incorrect but I will use my discretion you may go ahead thank you very much Mr. President I apologize for the delay in our microphone coming on no harm was meant to you Mr. President nor any disrespect at all was meant so I do offer to you my sincerest apology I want to let you know that the opposition is committed to working with your chair to enforce the powers bestowed on it by our constitution these comments thank you very much Mr. President for your kind gesture Mr. President the motion before us this afternoon is a very important one that seeks to improve the statistics across the OECS and some 8 million US dollars is the price for such a project I want to start out by saying that I support the project we agree that statistics generally as a development tool needs to be developed across the spectrum of our development landscape Mr. President for example the tourism statistics for example needs to be improved we are stuck in this era of judging the success of the industry by arrival numbers only and we have what is called an exit survey done by every visitor asking them how much they spend to determine what the revenue spend is and so Mr. President if we had that for example if we had a better mechanism to ensure that the true economic contribution of tourism as a lead sector would make the GDP that would be helpful in our development and it allows us as a country to make more informed decisions stats on salaries for example the social economic review talks about the whole issue of the unemployment rate and the size of the workforce and it gives you very good stats but I think one of the most important thing that's missing is the mean, the median and the mode salary in our country so that as policymakers we would know whether our policies are really affecting the people you know a lot of us come to the house and we make pronouncements this government for example most recently saying that you know we've done this we've done this we've done this but to be able to measure what that is in real value the jobs that we create the salaries that those jobs create whether it is good enough for an average solution family to be able to be in the middle class for example and have a lifestyle that would allow it to be in the middle class on the employment is a major issue in this country but this can only, we can only offer commentary because we can't go to any of our indicators or statistics to indicate whether on the employment what the rate is and so on but that Mr. President must be an economic reality that we must address you know what comes to mind I agree with the leader of government business when he said that successive administrations have made mistakes because they've either analysed the data wrongly they've either failed to do the study to be informed as to what the data is really saying and one of the stark examples of this Mr. President is the whole universal education project that we implemented in St. Lucia where the sufficient work wasn't done to determine that the birth rate in St. Lucia was declining and as a result we had to take note of a declining birth rate and allow that to inform us by the amount of secondary schools that we built today what we're seeing is very low populations at every level primary schools, secondary schools infant schools in fact I know that policy makers have been working to try to merge those schools so that we could utilise the space in these institutions a lot more effectively being a small country we can't afford to make those investments that are lavish and those investments that would have an impact on the cash flow of the country worse than the fiscal situation I mean the question of building a school is a very expensive endeavour one which a government will take many many years a country will take to pay back that debt and so that is one example that comes to mind I agree with the member when he suggested that successive administrations haven't followed that well another one that I found out recently was the whole business of in some areas where you have comprehensive schools and we need to know examine where it is a mechanic shop that is only assigned to a secondary school whether that mechanic shop is properly utilised by enough children in those what we call comprehensive schools and whether the majority of the school population for example is not slanted towards the more academic students and has it now been a fact as a result of the data that what we should in fact do is to establish specialised vocational institutions where perhaps we can get a better return for our investment where you have more vocational slanted students that would go and populate the school in a better way an example of that as well as the president could be found in the social economic review when we talk about debt for example I mean there's tons and tons of information here on page 126 of the social economic review and it shows you a steady climb of the debt of the country regardless of which administration is in power and so I would want to advise the government side to acquaint themselves with page 126 and look at the official debt the central debt the outstanding debt and the table is quite clear and it has it in millions to show and if you go back in years of the social economic review it will tell you where we have seen the peaks and where we have seen the troughs and I can guarantee you that after reading thoroughly the social economic review and analyzing the debt that the senators and the government side would never come back to this house and say that they are paying for our debt because usually development loans are for a long time so for example if I look at this one how long is this going to take 20 years to repay you're not going to be in power for 20 years another government is going to have to come and repay that debt you know you are taking loans here which have gone on for longer periods so I mean stop misleading the Honourable Senator, Honourable Senator I have given you the leeway and I have used my discretion in allowing you I would advise you to speak to the motion at hand the motion deals with the government from the International Development Association to finance the organization of Eastern Courtesy's data for decision making process I don't see the relevance in what you just said your last few comments I don't see the relevance Okay very well Mr. President I'll be guided by you I disagree but I am moving on so therefore the social economic review as a statistical tool is very instructive and it happens to have figures about the debt it happens to have figures about everything agricultural production tourism production manufacturing production and so it is from the whole broad principle of statistics that we need effective data to make informed decisions about the development of our country so Mr. President I would like to posit that this is an important bill it does beg the question to me that why would this project though be important at this time because I tell you why I'm asking this question especially in view of questions we've had and particularly when I was in government they leave a party then in opposition would say when you bring projects like these for a long term in the development they would say why don't you take the money and give it to the people in terms of income support now I wouldn't go down that road because I know that the international development association they have their mandate so on this specific motion they're giving monies for the development of our statistics and this motion speaks rather clearly to that and for the development of our statistics the monies if their mandate at a given time of their of their organization's history is in a particular place then it will be what the mandates are even now one of the things Mr. President the new phenomenon is a policy tied loans so when you're borrowing from these organizations this government is finding out now that they are what a type in terms of what they know you to borrow so the development world has a very narrow scope and sometimes some of them the things we would like to do with monies from the World Bank and from the IMF they simply aren't available and that is the fact so I thank you Mr. President for your indulgence and want to say to you that the opposition remains very committed to honoring your chair and respecting your authority as chairman of this House thank you thank you Mr. President for once I think I'll have no reason to be more than a minute or two first let me thank the leader of opposition business for his contribution I think I sense that there is support for the motion which is encouraging and wise I think contribution was the issue of not having collected not having collected data to guide the introduction of the universal secondary education program I will not dispute that because the hindsight has exposed some of the weaknesses of that program but I'll tell him that one of the things that is being done now that the Prime Minister in his allocation of portfolios on the education there is a department of a department known as vocational studies and this signals a focus so the schools that were built and we may find correctly so that the population rate has dropped and the statistics are showing that but what is more important is to deal with the situation as we go forward it is important now that we repurpose these schools a lot of these schools that are not up to maximum capacity after 3 o'clock after 4 there is need to repurpose and repurpose in what ways there is a lot of after school programs technical and vocational programs programs that resemble what we had as NELU or NELP where you give persons a second chance and concentrate on the technical areas good evidence of that and this is what we just did on Monday of this week on Monday of this week this government was in Kaldisak at around 9.30am and we had a short turning ceremony to build the care facility and if you're going to build any educational institution now or even renovate or expand you must be guided by the stats that tell you that the future of our education is about having the competencies that are relevant to deal with the reality of the deal and technical education is one of them that is why we're not going to build a grammar school but we are putting a care institution in place so I welcome that initiative and I look forward to our students getting a second chance through that institution and finally Mr. Speaker Mr. President sorry the greater investment in what we're borrowing here today I think the leader of opposition business cited several times the social and economic review suspect his leader had real difficulty reading from it in the last city but I think I want to just mention that it's not the only point of reference that we should use in dealing with or discussing data I think we should also look at what component 4 of the motion sees and I'll just read it of the Senate and I'll end with that it says this 0.8 million that's about 800,000 will be put towards project implementation and it says I quote this component will support the project implementation unit PIU in St. Lucia covering the hiring of PIU staff recruitment of consultants of on one on a needs basis on a needs basis audits equipment including laptops for hiring PIU staff on operating costs there is an example of how you target your spending based on what you need it's not just doing things because you just feel like you do it you have recognized what you would need and you're borrowing the money to spend on the targeted necessary intervention and I thank you Mr. President for your indulgence and hope that as we move out of the implementation of these programs that they will benefit us all thank you Mr. President be it resolved that parliament authorizes the Minister of Finance to borrow an amount of US 8 million dollars from the International Development Association to finance the organization of Eastern Caribbean states data for decision making project be it further resolved that the first I'm sorry that the service charge of the greater amount of one the sum of three fourths of one percent per annum plus the basis adjustment to the service charge and two three fourths of one percent per annum on the withdrawn credit balance be the maximum commitment charges one half of one percent per annum on the withdrawn finance and balance the loan is repairable in 40 years commencing from the date of the displacement of the loan inclusive of a great period of 10 years the principal amount of the loan is repairable on each 15th day of March and 15th day of September each year commensurate with the following terms one percent of the loan amount commenced on the 15th day of September 2032 and including the 15th day of March 2042 two two percent of the loan amount commenced on the 15th day of September 2042 and including the 15th day of March 2062 I now put the question as many as other opinions as many as other country opinions you know I think the eyes of it the eyes of it the eyes of it the eyes of it the eyes of it the eyes of it the eyes of it the eyes of it the eyes of it the eyes of it the eyes of it the eyes of it the eyes of it the eyes of it the eyes of it the eyes of it bank or other financial institution for the capital or current expenditure of government. And whereas it is further provided by Section 64 of the Act that money borrowed by the government must be paid into and from part of the consolidated fund. And whereas the Minister of Finance considers it necessary to borrow an amount of 18 million U.S. from the International Development Association for the implementation of the unleashing of the blue economy of the Caribbean project. And whereas the service charge is a greater of A, the sum of three-fourths of 1% per annum plus the basis adjustment to the service charge and B, three-fourths of 1% per annum on the withdrawn credit balance. And whereas the maximum commitment charge is one-half of 1% per annum on the withdrawn financing balance, and whereas the loan is repayable in 40 years commencing from the date of disbursement of the loan, inclusive of a grace period of 10 years, and whereas the principal amount of the loan is repayable on each 15th day of May and 15th day of November each year commensurate with the following terms. One percent of the loan amounts commencing on the 15th day of May 2032, and two and including the 15th day of November 2041, B, 2% of the loan amounts commencing on the 15th day of May 2042, and two and including the 15th day of November 2061. Be it resolved that parliament authorizes the Minister of Finance to borrow an amount of U.S. dollars 18 million from the International Development Association. For the implementation of unleashing of the blue economy of the Caribbean project. Be it further resolved that, A, the service charge is a greater of one. The sum of three-fourths of 1% per annum plus the basis adjustment to the service charge and two, three-fourths of 1% per annum on the withdrawn credit balance. B, the maximum commitment charge is one-half of 1% per annum on the un withdrawn financing balance. C, the loan is repayable in 40 years commencing from the date of disbursement of the loan including inclusive of a grace period of 10 years. D, the principal amount of the loan is repayable on each 15th day of May and 15th day of November each year commensurate with the following terms. One, 1% of the loan amount commencing on the 15th day of May 2032, two and including the 15th day of November 2041, and two, 2% of the loan amount commencing on the 15th day of May 2042, two and including the 15th day of November 2061. And Mr. President, I just wish to provide, as I have done on several occasions today, for each of these motions, for this motion I just wanted to provide just a little bit of additional information that I think would be relevant in this chamber. As we have heard from the resolution, this loan is really a loan that is really relevant to the times. It really is something that is required right now. And if you go into any conversation in the global environment about any issue, whether it is economic development, agriculture, education, tourism, one of the key terms that you hear is sustainable development, climate change, resilience, you hear that. And it means that everything now has a very important focus on that concept. So we are now aware of the realities of climate change. We heard our Prime Minister's address, I think it was in Surinam, when he really stood up to some of the bigger fish and reminded them that we as small territories in the Caribbean are responsible for less than 2% or less than half a percent of the total global emissions, yet we feel the brunt of the consequences of the actions with all these natural disasters and global warming side effects, if you like. And so as a small state, a developing state, we need to ensure that we pay sufficient attention to matters relating to preserving, conserving, and maximising the use of our, what we call our blue economy. Mr. President, 3 to 9% of our GDP annually is being lost, and that is not only St. Lucia. Countries in the region are losing significant percentages of their GDP, and it's increasing almost every year because of factors related to climate change. Mr. President, we also have to be aware that even if we talk about COVID as a major threat and health, one of the things that we have to realise as St. Lucia, for example, is that we can go to bed tonight, we can leave this chamber tonight, and tomorrow morning we get up, and because of maybe four or five hours of a hurricane action or some natural disaster, our entire GDP can be wiped off in a matter of four hours. A single hurricane, and we've seen it in Dominica, we've seen it in other countries.  So as a country, we have to be aware of this, and we have to be able to find ways to make better use of the blue economy. That requires building resilience, that also requires adaptation, and this loan is not the implementation of the benefits of this loan will not be a short term, one short issue. It's going to be done over a six-year period, so that tells you that there is a certain level of sustainability and succession that will take place as the programmes go on. Mr President, this resolution is also consistent with one of the Sustainable Development Goals. As stated by the Minister for Education, it's the Sustainable Development Goal number 14, which speaks to the tapping into the sustainable use of the marine environment, the ocean as a resource for economic development. We are proud to say that as an illusion, we are surrounded by water, completely surrounded by water as a beautiful country, as a beautiful island, that's how we get the definition of an island. But are we making proper use or sustainable use of that resource? Are we doing so? And I think we can all say that to date, we could have done a lot better. And so it is important that we tap into that as a resource and make it work for us, but not just to exploit and pollute and damage it, but in a sustainable way, protect the environment while we tap into that resource. Mr President, this is also a very good alternative to traditional practices in economic activity. For too long, we have relied solely on tourism, little agriculture, baby manufacturing, and some traditional methods that have become a greater challenge now. Because some of these resources aren't totally ours to control. There is now a situation with access to services, the supply chain, food. This morning, we saw ashes from the volcano reminding us of sugar. We have issues with being able to supply ourselves with food. So Mr President, it is important that as a country, we do not rely on the traditional economic activities to generate employment and to sustain ourselves. We have to look elsewhere. Sufra is a very good example of a part of this country where there is tremendous potential, and I'm sure the former representative for Sufra will agree. There is tremendous potential with the marine environment, and we need to tap into that. I hope the Sufra Marine Management Authority is listening and that they can work with us to do that. Mr President, I think it's also important to note that every sector, like I said earlier, has made it very clear that for us to be sustainable, for us to be creative, we must make better use of the blue economy. There are countries around the world that do not have access to 238 square miles surrounded by water, completely surrounded by water, coral reefs, and all those other – I mean, we haven't found oil yet, but mangroves, you know, there are so many beautiful assets that we actually have available to us in this part of the world that I think we are well placed to take advantage of this opportunity. The two key words in this is that it is sustainable, it is climate friendly, and I think when you can find something within your immediate environment that is climate friendly and sustainable as a means of generating economic activity, you should take advantage of it because you're well placed. So I look forward to the implementation of this and look for the benefits for every single community, even the inland communities of this country. Let it not be thought that it's only for the coastal communities. The Mabia Valley, there is so. Communities inland, there's opportunity for all of them to benefit from initiatives like this, so I look forward to that. One more thing I wanted to add, Mr. President, I want to urge our agencies that in doing so we pay attention to the conservation factors and the preservation factors and deal with matters of pollution, littering, and so on, because sometimes, you know, efforts to tap into the blue economy and the ocean, we tend to be a little reckless and forget that we need it tomorrow. So I look forward to that and I look forward also to the support of our colleagues for this motion. Thank you, Mr. President. The bill is resolved that Parliament authorizes the Minister of Finance to borrow an amount of U.S. $18 million from the International Development Association for the implementation of the unleashing of the blue economy of the Caribbean project. The bill further resolved that, A, the service charge is a greater of one, the sum of three fourths of 1% per annum plus the business adjustment to the service charge, and two, three-fourths of 1% per annum on the withdrawn credit balance, B, the maximum commitment charge is one-half of 1% per annum on the withdrawn financing balance, C, the lowest repayable in 40 years commencing from the date of disbursement of the loan, inclusive of a grace period of 10 years, D, the principal amount of the loan is repayable on each fifth of May and fifth of November each year commensurate with the following terms, one, 1% of the loan amount commencing on the fifth of May 2042 and including the fifth of November 2041 and two, 2% of the loan amount commencing on the fifth of May 2042, two and including the fifth of November 2061. I now put the question, as many as are of that opinion, as many as are of a country opinion, you see, no, I think the eyes have it, the eyes have it. Again, lights, lights. Don't look at me with your lights on. No, I'm not talking to you. I remember the stunning orders makes provision. Members are recognized by indication, a way of the light from your microphones. Do not look to communicate with me directly. I look for the lights, the little red light. And if there aren't any red lights, then I move on. Little government business. Thank you for acknowledging my red light, Mr. President. Mr. President, I beg to move the following motion, standing in my name. Whereas it is provided by section 54.1 of the Public Finance Management Act number 14 of 2020, that the Minister of Finance may, by affirmative resolution of parliament, write off losses of public monies, public assets or other movable property belonging to the government or provided for the public service or abandoned or remit or claim by or on behalf of the government, or a public service provided where the amount is $10,000 or more. And whereas the Fonsejar Credit Cooperative Society Limited is indebted to the government in the sum of EC $546,264 with respect to the Mocha Housing Development Project. And whereas the Minister of Finance considers it necessary to write off the debts owed to the government by the Fonsejar Credit Cooperative Society Limited with respect to the Mocha Housing Development Project. We it resolved that the parliament authorizes the Minister of Finance to write off the debt in the sum of $546,264 EC dollars owed to the government by the Fonsejar Credit Cooperative Society Limited with respect to the Mocha Housing Development Project. Elaborate a little bit. This motion really is seeking to come to the rescue of a situation in the Souffre Fonsejar constituency where the loan owed to the government by the Credit Cooperative Society with respect to that development, as mentioned, Mocha development, needs to be taken care of. This move is basically two-pronged. In one respect, it is going to help the institution strengthen its financial capacity. It has given out a total of 26 loans, but of the 26 given, only 11 of them have been serviced. These residents who have purchased small homes, they've made investments in there. Some of them don't have the capacity to repay those loans. Some of them, they need assistance. The Credit Union is not receiving the expected revenue. The government sees that this is a move that will help the Credit Union improve its situation with its balance sheet. It will improve its capacity to offer more services to the community and to go into more productive lending. The second aspect would be that this now allows the persons who are actually accessing the service better living conditions because they can now access the service that they otherwise would not have access. And those who have actually been paying the loans or who have paid the loans can now access deeds of sale for the properties that they've invested in. It is true that there are some persons who may be delinquent and from time to time we know that they are bad debtors. They don't pay their bills. Maybe there's a good example that we've learned from. When you don't pay your bills, it can cause problems for other people. But as a government, we don't encourage that. However, when it comes to vulnerable people who are trying and they just cannot, and the institution has reached out on their behalf, the government that cares for people, the government that puts people first, sees that it's necessary to intervene. And instead of taking money to go and give, you know, countless examples to friends and all those things, we think it's a very important initiative that this government intervenes and rescues a very small but very significant institution in the South-Asia constituency and help those persons. So you're going to have two things happening, Mr. President. One, the institution itself will get some assistance to be able to survive and the persons who are unable to meet their benefits, not because we want them to be delinquent. We're giving them a chance to say, look, 11 of you have been paying your loans. Even if it's difficult, we are going to reward you. We are going to make sure that you now have title to your properties, deed of sale. You can own this. And for those of you who just couldn't pay, the credit union will be able to get some relief. So it really is a very important move, albeit small but significant. And that is a proper demonstration of what our government is about. And so I'm very happy. And I see a former representative of Sufair Fawcajaq. I believe his heart is still there. And I'm sure inside he's very pleased. I see him blushing his pig cheeks, pig cheeks, blushing and being very grateful and rightfully so that the government has decided to help a situation for the people where he represented. I don't want to chastise him too much, but all I'll say to him is I wish his government had done the same earlier. It would have been a good investment and he'd probably be on this side still. But Mr. President, that's how it is. So I look forward to the support of this House for that initiative on behalf of the people of Sufair Fawcajaq. Thank you, Mr. President. Certainly. Mr. President, I just wanted to rise just to make a very, very short contribution to this discussion. I support the motion to waive, to write off the debt of the Sufair Fawcajaq. Well, the Fawcajaq Credit Cooperative Society. But in light, Mr. President, of the statements that were made with regard to the Banking Amendment Act, which was proposed in the lower house. And I know the intention is to go with a joint committee to discuss that further. I think it's important at this point to recognize the contribution of credit unions to our society as a whole. And the importance that they have and is going to continue to grow as banking becomes more and more restrictive or restricted. Credit unions are really the access point for many persons in this country to our financial system. And I would like to encourage the government to, and perhaps I should stop and just disclosure, full disclosure. I have been a lifelong member of a credit union. I have served my credit union in a broad capacity. So I'm invested in the credit union philosophy and the credit union movement. But I think it's important that we look as a country and I'm suggesting to the government that they take the opportunity while we're looking at the banking side of things to look to see how we can safeguard and protect our credit union movement in St. Lucia so that it becomes what it really can be, the bedrock of the financial institution for most persons in this country. Our banking has become more and more concentrated. It's become more and more concentrated overseas. And so we are losing a lot of the personal touch that made banking a facilitated banking in our country. And fortunately, the credit unions have been able to step into that gap. They are really a personalized and personal service where you get to know their members on an individual basis and can contribute to the welfare of their members on an individual basis. There have been moves for increased regulation and I appreciate that regulation is necessary to make sure the credit unions operate properly and function properly and can continue to grow and survive. But I do not want to see a situation where we begin to regulate credit unions in the same manner as we regulate banks. And so therefore I'm encouraging and soliciting the government support in looking at these things to see how we can develop an indigenous regulatory process to ensure that our credit unions remain independent, remain vibrant and remain able to contribute to the economic development of our society. So again, I support this very timely assistance to the forces of that credit union and I encourage the government to go further. Thank you, Mr. President. Mr. Anderson. Thank you, Mr. President. And again, I will not be very long on this one, but I stand to fully support the motion as presented by the leader of government business. This is a situation that is going to give the credit union, the forces of credit unions some breathing space on the balance sheet. Mr. President, where like the leader of the government said, can lend some more help to the community of Sufra, Fons and Jacques. This was a project, the Booker Housing Project was a project which started in 2011 after Hurricane Thomas caused a major destruction in Fons and Jacques. I think that there was about four or five deaths from that hurricane and the government had to step in to create housing, to relocate persons who lose their homes and property completely and that agreement was made between the government and the credit union to facilitate the purchase of houses to residents but the land would have done to the residents free of charge. They only had to pay the houses and houses were of different amounts. I think from $5,000 to the biggest of them was about $60,000. And like Ample said that you have some delinquent payers and I'm hoping that with the possibility of them getting tied up to the land, they'll make them a concerted effort to make whatever contribution it is towards payment of the mortgage so that could enhance the capacity of the credit union to do a lot better. This is a very, very good resolution. I fully support it and I want to commend the government in coming forward to assist in the Fons and Jacques credit union and the people of Fons and Jacques. Thank you very much. How is it and to one prospect, to one prospect? Mr. President, I think it would be miss of me as a resident of Fons and Jacques not to add my voice to this resolution. I stand in support of the resolution because on the morning after the disaster, up in Fons and Jacques. And at the time, many people thought that Fons and Jacques had disappeared from the map. And I had to make a concerted effort to contact my family to let them know that I was alive. I witness the dead bodies on the ground and all the destruction on that morning. So I understand how the Fons and Jacques, the board of the Fons and Jacques credit union felt at the time when they made the commitment to assist the government in providing housing for so many residents who had lost their homes, they had lost a livelihood because the Fons and Jacques credit union really depends on the farmers from the community to thrive. And many of them had lost their gardens, they had lost everything that they had. And so I am very pleased that a caring government, a government of the Celusia Labour Party has found it fitting the Fons and Jacques credit union of the burden because at the time they really thought that the residents would have been able to service their loans. But if we understand what poor people go through, they had to start life again. And it was very difficult and some of them are still struggling to pay their loans. And this is why the credit union itself was not able to pay to the government the amount that they had agreed upon. And so today I wish to applaud the government for this bold move for the people of Souffre Fons and Jacques. And let me say again that I wish that my colleague on the other side had seen wisdom in relieving the Fons and Jacques credit union of that burden if the people themselves cannot save at the credit union, the credit union cannot thrive. And so today I stand in full support of that resolution. Thank you very much. Mr President, I just wanted to make an observation. First of all, let me thank the Honourable Senator for his contribution and as well as the Honourable Senator, the Independent Senator for his words of encouragement and advice. But there's one thing I've noted and I wanted to make sure we take note of it before we go to the bill. As we went on today, there's something I realised. The opposition, they've come around. We started by saying that we, you know, all this thing about borrowing from the first motion. But we have gotten to the point where they've gradually gotten to the point that they support what we're doing. So supporting this, supporting this situation in Fons and Jacques, don't forget the government had to borrow money to deal with it. So I think they've finally come down to us and we're dealing with the reality. And I want to thank them immensely for agreeing that we, in this government, when we borrow, we borrow for a good cause. Just to ensure that I said so, Mr President, instead of writing off and throwing away everything that we don't think makes a profit in this country. They have finally come home and supported openly the motion where we are borrowing money for a good cause. Thank you, Mr President. It's been resolved that Parliament authorises the Minister for Finance to write off the debt in the sum of EC546,200, which is the four dollars, owed to the government by the Fons and Jacques Credit Corporate Society Limited with respect to the Mocha Housing Development Project. I now put the question, as many eyes off that opinion say aye. As many eyes off a country opinion say no. I think the eyes have it, the eyes have it. Bills, Leader of Government Business. Mr President, I beg to present the first reading of a bill shortly entitled International Bank Amendment. International Bank's Amendment. Leader of Government Business. Mr President, I beg for the suspension of Standing Order 482 to allow the bill to go through its remaining stages at the sitting. The Senator's question is that Standing Order No. 492 be suspended in order to allow the Honourable Leader of Government Business to proceed with the remaining stages of the bill at this sitting. I now put the question, as many eyes off that opinion say aye. As many eyes off a country opinion say no. I think the eyes have it, the eyes have it. The bill is granted Honourable Leader of Government Business. Thank you Mr President. Mr President, I beg to move for the second reading of a bill shortly entitled International Bank's Amendment. Mr President, this bill for consideration seeks to provide an enhanced enhancement for the regulation of supervising of the banking business. And it really is to establish a single space banking and the ownership structures for licensed financial institutions. Mr President, there are some amendments been proposed and the amendment to this legislation will really or seeks to facilitate the further advancement and harmonisation of the banking sector in the Eastern Caribbean Union, the ECU. And that will in turn supplement the strengthening of the legal framework for the conduct of banking business and a regulatory environment that will be enhanced. The amendments proposed Mr President to the Banking Act have all emanated from reviews conducted by the ECU and the intention is to update the Act and make it easier to understand, to improve its language and to improve the accuracy of the Act by way of definitions. Just by example Mr President, we have the amendments to section 44 of the Act specifies that the licensed financial institution must maintain a minimum paid up or assigned capital in the currency union and not only in St. Russia. A new subsection five Mr President is also included to empower the ECCB to approve the holding of assigned capital in the form of specified assets. Mr President section 45 is amended to insert two new practices in which a licensed financial institution or licensed financial holding company should not engage should not be engaged to maintain the reserve fund under subsection two. In addition Mr President two new subsections, two new subsections three, four and five are inserted in which a license provided a licensed financial institution or licensed financial holding company shall not declare or make transfer from its profits if it realizes a net loss for financial year unless it obtains prior written approval of the central bank within the specified timeline. Mr President there is an amendment also to increase the permissible years of consecutive service of an external auditor sorry for six years to nine years and to provide that the lead and concurring audit partner shall be changed every six years and that is being proposed. The strength and remedial action tools and adopted mechanisms to allow for resolution of different banking matters are some of the pertinent measures which this bill seeks to address and as well Mr President to improve the corporate governing framework for financial institutions within the currency union and finally Mr President this part of the ECCU harmonize the distillation this is part sorry of the ECCU harmonize the distillation as a member St Lucia which is a member is required to enact these amendments and so we have to do so to be compliant and so with that in mind these few notes just shared I look for the concurrence and support of this Senate for Mr President if you'll allow me just to please do rectify yes a couple of things there I think some of the content I just provided would be more appropriate for another bill so I just want to retract a little and get a couple of things sorted out so I will use the a different or more reliable source you are you are now referring to the international bank in amendments yes so apologize for the previous yes I don't know if it's because of the time of the anyhow so the bill for consideration Mr President which is the international banks amendment this this bill provides the amendment of the international banks cap act 1217 which is known as the act close one of the bill provides for the short title and commencement and close two of the bill provides for the interpretation in clause three the bill section of the bill section two of the act interpretation is amended to include two new definitions for the terms effective consolidated supervision financial services regulator shell bank and physical presence um it's closed for the bill amend section five one of the act registered office and registered agent by including the words physical presence after the words unless it has this amendment seeks to provide that a license can only be issued for the physical presence of an eligible company operating a registered office in st lusher can be established Mr President in clause five of the bill section 10 of the act limitation on activities this is amended by substituting the words in connection with the business in is connected to clarify the activities that the license the licensee is prohibited from undertaking the amendment also provides for the insertion of a new subsection two that prohibits a license operation operating an international bank in business in st lusher from establishing or continuing business relations with a shell bank so Mr President um these brief notes provide a little bit of background and context for the bill before us and i look forward to our contributions and approval for the thank you senator the question is that the international banks amendment bill will be read a second time i now put the question as many as of that opinion say aye as many as of a country opinion say no i think the eyes of it the eyes of it the international banks act cap 12.17 clause 2 interpretation clause 2 stands part of the bill clause 3 amendment of section 2 clause 3 stands part of the bill clause 4 amendment of section 5 clause 4 stands part of the bill clause 5 substitution of section 10 clause 5 stands part of the bill clause 1 short title clause 1 stands part of the bill senator the question is that the committee rises and the bill be reported and now put the question as many as are that opinion say aye as many as are of a country opinion say no i think the eyes of it the eyes of it senators are back to report that the international banks amendment bill went through committee stage with amendment without amendments did have government business sir president i move that the report of the committee be adopted and that the bill be read a third time senators the question is that is that the report of the committee be adopted and that the and that the international banks amendment bill be read a third time and passed i now put the question as many as other opinions say aye as many as other country opinions say no i guess the eyes of it the eyes of it be enacted by the queen's most excellent majesty by and with the advice and consent of the house of assembly and the senate of st lusia and by the authority of the same as follows this act may be cited as the international banks amendment act 2022 did have government business mr president i move that this senate do stand adjourned sign it what did you say i'm hoping you heard the second i'm not sure i can say twice senators the question is this senator stand that stand adjourned sign it i i now put the question i now put the question as many as out of that opinion say aye as many as of a country opinion say no i think the eyes of it the eyes of it this thing is adjourned