Okay. Welcome to the town of Amherst Council on Aging meeting today and pursuant to Governor Baker's March 12, 2020 order suspending certain provisions of the open meeting law. GLC 30A subsection 18. This meeting of the Council on Aging is being conducted by a remote participation. So I am going to do a roll call check right now.  Okay, Greg Baskham. Dirk's. Okay, coffler. Neil. Here. I can tell you that Yvette is here. I've asked her to hear. Oh, there we are. Okay. Thank you. Excellent. Okay. Rector is here. Smith Crooks. I'm here. Mila Monta Mayor. I'm here. And Chad Fuller. Yeah. Okay. Great. All right. Thanks everyone. Okay. Just again, just remember to mute or unmute. Sometimes I will if I can't hear you or Mary Beth can't hear you. We may just touch our ear to let you know that you need to unmute. So we can hear your voices. You can also raise your hand if you are comfortable with that as an option. I'm just raising her hand. All right. Oh, I just want to introduce myself. That's all. Oh, wonderful. Oh, Karen. Thank you. You're here. Lovely. Thank you. Yes, we do have some guests with us Karen. Yeah, raining. And also joining us is Liz Welsh. Thank you. Yes, great. Okay. Any other guests? Yes, we have Richard Yerga with us. Yes, Richard. Thank you. So Karen Rainan is the senior health services nurse and Liz Welsh is a representative from Amherst neighbors. She was formerly the president and now she has another role. I think Yerga represents the friends of the Amherst senior center, just for people who might be viewing this. And at around 920 we'll have another guest joining us. And I'm a dragon from the Department of Health. Okay, so let's see here. So I call this meeting to order and I invite anyone in the public is now welcome to make a comment or express their views up to three minutes. If you wish to speak, use the raise hand icon on the lower part of your screen or dial star nine if you are on the phone. And Liz Welsh has her hand raised. I don't know if there's anything that she wants to address at this time. I just wanted to do a quick little message and invitation that we have a couple of events coming up that you all may be interested in two that go together very nicely. One is creating your age in place plan that is being led by someone named Janet Bunce. And that will be very informative and helpful I think. And it goes it's coupled nicely with one a couple weeks later called making yours and an age friendly home. So just things that you can do both of those are kind of anticipatory. Janet works a lot with people who come to her in the midst of a bump in the road and so part of hers and part of the second one is to help people anticipate before a crisis. And the other event I just want to give a nice little plug to is political in nature which some of our events are, and it is titled challenges to democracy and the rule of law. That's being led by Austin Sarah who teaches at Amherst College. So that is also extremely timely. Anyway, just check out our if you can always get in touch with any one of us or you can go to Amherst neighbors.org. If you know people who are interested, anybody is welcome. If anybody needs help signing up. We also can help you with that process. Thank you. Thanks so much Liz for sharing that with this. So, okay, so as a launchpad for our meeting. Mary Beth is going to boot up a song. Nice. Okay. Just give me a moment. I'm hoping you are all seeing this. Yes. Yeah. Okay. Pat, this is it right.  This is a request of the chair so I just want to make sure I do this right in combination with my artistic I just wanted to get away from seeking myself. We also have with us Mindy Dom so I just want to I'm going to just jump her into the group here. Wonderful. And Mindy I'm going to ask you to unmute just to say hi. And a moment. No, I asked, there we go. Mindy, do you want to check in and just say hi? Introduce yourself. Looks like no. So, just letting y'all know. Okay, well, we'll welcome Mindy. We're so glad that you're joining us and that you're, you're alive and well. So, okay. So we're just going, we have a full agenda. And we'll, we'll keep marching through it as we, we go. So, first, first item is, is updates and looking ahead from Mary Beth. Do you want to say, say, say a few things, critical things. Sure. Yeah. Well, a couple of things I just as a matter of sort of bookkeeping with all of you. I hope you have received an email via Pat on a conflict of interest law and both a certificate you have to complete by February 5 indicating that you received some printed materials about conflict of interest. And also that there is an online training that you have to perform. And that has to be completed by April 5. So just wanted to make sure, and if anybody did not receive that please just check in with me offline via email and I'll make sure that you get that information because it's just critical to our work. We will at 920 so I'm sort of stalling if you're sensing that in the next four minutes. Emma Dragon will be joining us as our health director to give us some information around vaccines and what's happening. I will tell you that the primary issue that's really concerning seniors in in great, great number is the rollout of vaccines to seniors presently I'm sure many of you are aware we are running a first responders clinic this past week here at the bank center. It's gone tremendously well. And I can, I can just report and I think the council would want to know that I literally receive hundreds of phone calls daily from seniors, all day long, all the lines are ringing, can I book my appointment for a vaccine right now. People are extremely anxious about it around what is the information and the timing of it. And so I'm going to just leave the details of that to Emma to sort of fill in around when that we can expect that would be coming but it is the lead concern and a very, very grave concern for seniors across the board in our community. I just never experienced the volume of calls that we're getting right now. So I just would want you to have that awareness for you. I do have really great news. Another high profile service that we perform is that we partner with AARP for the tax service. And it has gone back and forth as you know over the past few months, whether they would be whether AARP was going to perform it, whether there would be adequate volunteers in our Amherst area because many of course as you understand are older adults who perform this service as volunteers and they have in some measure chosen to make sure that they were safe and have declined to participate. But I am happy to say that we are going to be partnering with the Hadley Senior Center. So Haley Wood, there's the director, and we are going to be rolling out a program where the taxes will be performed at the Hadley Senior Center curbside. So what we anticipate and what we are working with AARP to create is a system by which we will have one day a week for Amherst residents. So it will be a much smaller number than when we hosted them here and we had multiple days. So we will not be able to serve the broad number that we did formally, but it's the best that we can do during the pandemic. And the tax volunteers will be working inside the Hadley Senior Center, distanced and spaced and separated in different rooms. Individuals who will be signing up for an appointment, you would drive to the Hadley Senior Center at 8.30 in the morning. You will drop your packet of information off at 8.30 in the morning. They will then take it inside and the tax volunteers will work on it. And then you must pick it up at one o'clock the same day. So people also must be available by phone all day long during their appointment from 8.30 to one. So that if an individual has any questions that they would be able to. I realize I realized I had taken myself off video. Sorry folks. If somebody has questions and they often do about, you know, a detail that you are available. So that's what we will be doing. We will be working our day. It looks to be will be Fridays. And it will not be starting until at least mid-February. So AARP has pushed back the timeframe several times due to the spread of COVID. Initially we were looking at February 1st, but actually January, then it went to February 1st. Now it has to be some day after February 15th. So that's what I am anticipating. We will be sending out the materials. I don't have all of the information yet from our volunteer team around the packets and that. But what I anticipate is probably announcing that February 1 is the likely date that we'll begin to accept phone appointments for Amherst residents to do it. So we can look forward to that opportunity because that's a, I have to say that's probably my number two issue for individuals because they're always nervous about filing the taxes on time. And just with regard to our operation, I'm just bringing to your attention that we have in the town buildings, we have depopulated. And here's Emma Dragon.  She ran up from the vaccine clinic and so her time is really precious. And I just want to give her the opportunity to give us the update. Thank you. Hello, everybody. I'm so happy to be here. Thank you for including me in your meeting. I know I'm really excited for the things to come. We are, yes, we're having our first responder clinic downstairs, which the, I think the continual rollout of the vaccine can be cumbersome and complicated and there's all these phases and steps and where do I fit in and I think all of us are having those questions. And I know that even yesterday afternoon, they had an update for it as well, even further to go through the intricacies of when can people get the vaccine. So right now we are in phase one, step three of the rollout, which is the first responders. And there's six steps in phase one, and then we move to phase two, which is 75 and older people with two plus co co morbidities, meaning if you have high blood pressure or diabetes. And then people who also live in public and private low income and affordable housing, as well as those great school teachers and adults over 65. What I do know is that yesterday, the state did include people who live in private housing settings that are 75 and older at the end of phase one distribution. So not right now, even though I know we're all excited to jump in line and get it as soon as we can, but not quite yet. So that phase comes up. We will certainly get the word out there. I know Mary Beth is great about communication with all of her team and all of her great community stakeholders, all of you guys, and some more to come with that. So here at the health department we have been working so hard preparing for this moment. I just started here in November 2. So, Mary Beth, I know for me it feels already like I've been here for a couple years with all the great stuff we've done. So really trying to lean forward, prepare for this vaccine rollout and us as a local health department, many local health departments and boards of health don't have the capacity and opportunity to be able to do this for at the local level with vaccine clinics. We are very unique in the way that Julie Fetterman, my predecessor, was able to get this department set up. And Jennifer Brown, the public health nurse, I don't know where I would be without her. She is my two hands on the wheel compass. You know, we are really a team. Nancy Schroeder, our assistant is fantastic and brings such a great institutional knowledge with her in terms of the town. And I'm just really excited to be here and all the great things that we're going to do right now during our COVID response, but even beyond that. And once this is all over, I know that there's great things that we can do so I can take some questions if people wanted, had some questions I could talk forever but you don't want to hear me blabber blabber all day long. I have one question. Yeah, thank you so much for that Rector and hello and welcome. I guess the core question is this what is the best single source of information on the vaccine because I know it's a changing landscape. Yeah, and we different sites every day but can you recommend to us the best single source of information on where to get how and when to get the vaccine. So that would be through the mass dot gov website with when can I get my COVID vaccine on that link they are updating it at a minimum every Tuesday and Thursday. But I think they've been updating it every day. And they have these great timelines. Let me see if I can, I have a million things open on my screen but let's see if I can share my screen for a moment. Can everybody see it. Yes. You're so nimble. Okay. Well, thank you for that my kids don't think I'm nimble but you know, I'll take the compliment. So, this is a great visual that the state just came out with I believe they just posted it yesterday to help us all have a sense in terms of where are we with the roll out in Massachusetts. So here we can see that we are here in week two of January, and that COVID facing health care workers are long term health care workers. We've just started our first responders and as well as our congregate care settings, meaning our shelters and our corrections facilities. And still in phase one roll out we have those home based health care workers to come in about two weeks, if not sooner, and then non COVID facing health care workers meaning health care workers that are not knowingly taking care of sick, infectious patients with COVID, like if you were to go to the dermatology office or another specialist that you might see. And then they're starting to have all of these different tiles with lots of information for those specific groups. So that's coming out as well. So really this mass.gov website up here, where if you just were to type into Google Massachusetts, when can I get my COVID vaccine and click on it this this is where it would come up to. Great thing and, you know, even myself I use this as a brief reference for when we get calls and questions about for people asking when they're going to get the vaccine because it changes so quickly. So even I use it as a reference. Yeah, this is Tim Neal. What is the status of the supply in the state do we have any issues with that. Yeah, I think we are at the. I don't want to say mercy, but we, we are producing the vaccine right it's up to the companies Moderna and Pfizer right now. Certainly Moderna is based out of Massachusetts which I think is in our favor, but we are not just competing for ourselves in Massachusetts it's throughout the United States and around the world for people that are trying to get the vaccine. I know, and it's coming out in what I would call batches, meaning groups of it, not all kind of being seamlessly going out at the same time consistently. So, I think that right now, the amount of vaccine is, we're reaching the end of that, the one batch, meaning that I know that base date ran out of vaccine for their health care workers on Monday but they were expecting a new shipment yesterday. So I think we are starting to reach a part of the story if you will where it might be kind of on and off with vaccine distribution. I see two other hands. I see a Rosemary and Karen so Rosemary go ahead. Well, am I answered my question about which type of vaccine. And I wonder is AstraZeneca coming through at all or are we just using Moderna and Pfizer. Yeah, so I think as AstraZeneca comes along, they're going to be weaved in here. But right now we have the Moderna vaccine on the community level. And really that Pfizer vaccine because of the ultra low storage requirements are being held in the hospital based systems. Thank you, Karen. Just wanted to two things and I just wanted to say thank you for all that you've been doing already since you came, you're peddling so fast. So thank you so much. So I was just a little confused. If our information, you know that we're getting through the news feed in terms of saying now people 65 and over can get the vaccine. How is that just to, if you can clear that up a little bit compared to what like the you just showed us from Massachusetts. So that's the CDC recommendations for it and I think what we all have to remember is there's different information for different steps right so the federal information that's coming out is different than many of this, the state recommendations for right now, Massachusetts is a little different with the rollout. So people should really be focusing on the messaging from the mass.gov site for the clear information and how it's going to impact us as Massachusetts residents. But I know that the Department of Public Health is evaluating the information that comes out from the CDC regularly and health and human services so I think more to come with that chapter. Thank you. You're welcome. I'm aware, I see, I see Mila's hand and I'm also aware that Jacqueline had some, some concerns about sanitizing surfaces and public transportation. Why don't we just go to that. Jacqueline, can you speak briefly to that. Yes, yes, and it will be brief because I'm still working at pulling together the resolution. I use the PVTA van services. And for the most part, I would say, I would start out by saying that the drivers wear masks for protection and they have the signs up. To that extent, they are observing what I would assume to be some of the standards for CDC COVID sanitizing. However, a couple of weeks ago, I questioned, especially after I was on the van with, I joined the van with somebody else. And it was not possible for us to be six feet apart.  And while, while riding, I asked the driver how often do they sanitize the van and between whether it's between passengers and he indicated that they sanitize every day at the end of the day. And it made me a little bit concerned, because I have a number of people in my, in my family circle and extended family circle in other parts of the country who have contracted COVID and have not been as fortunate as some and some other circles to survive it. And he said they do they use some kind of cleaning solution that is so strong that it would be hard for the people to, to endure it. And I that still make me concerned because between between passengers I think that there should be something that could at least give us an illusion of something being sanitized. And so it means, while the service is overall good, I think there's some concerns that need to be addressed. And if there is some way for them to be able to sanitize between passengers, especially. Emma, do you want to speak to that. And I'm afraid I regret that that's going to have to be our last question. Yeah, I know that the PVTA and other private agencies are doing really fairly well at sanitizing and cleaning. I think one of the challenges like you said Jacqueline is that the products that are approved to clean with against infections and viruses are very strong chemicals and do have a lot of off gassing and can be pretty caustic. So that's one of the challenges. I think one of the recommendations that I would say to do is make sure that even if we can't make sure that the bus is 100% clean because I don't know if that's realistic because of the cleaning materials, even though I know that all of us would love to have that in gold standard. Certainly I can reach out to the PVTA and hear their practices a little bit better, but would be to have your own hand sanitizer on you and really make sure that you are being keeping good hand hygiene with anything that you're touching if you are on the PVT one or another bus. Thank you so much, Emma for your work and you're making room for us and you're welcome at any time. No, thank you so much for having me. All right, thank you. You're welcome. Emma, can I just ask one thing before you go is that you could just make mention of the COVID testing site that's been established at UMass because I have had a lot of seniors ask about Oh, my God, that they should be accessing and how frequently because the vaccine and the COVID testing go together as a network of safety. That is a great point Mary Beth and I'm so sorry that I forgot to mention that I'm just so thinking about our clinic downstairs so UMass has a terrific asymptomatic testing site at the Mullen Center. You can just sign up online you have to make an appointment before and it takes about five minutes to go through. It's very well operated, very great social distancing. You swab your own nose so no one else has to do it for you and it's really just in the tip of your nostril, and then you put your sample in the tube, and you give it to them and then they email you the results within about 24 hours.  Other than that you would get an email and it's a great service it's right next door at UMass at the Mullen Center, and they still have availability I know that they've had availability I think every day very best don't you think. Yeah, but I was just on the site again yesterday. Yeah, yeah, and they you can sign up to get it every once a week for the community members. And they do encourage that because they do say that about 50% of people that become infected with COVID can be asymptomatic. So, it's always good to get that test just for that reassurance I think to. Okay, thanks so much. Great. All right, everybody stay safe and healthy okay. Okay. Thanks. And I'd like to just add that we have a number of seniors who have called me about the COVID testing, and they obviously don't have the ability to go online or to make the appointment. And so we here at the senior center are able to link people up. I've made appointments for individuals. They've been able to have some email so those who don't have email that becomes a little bit more problematic. That the email and the return come would come to our email, and then they'd have to come in and receive that email because it's type of protected information. I'm just letting people know that if you're having trouble and if you are a senior and you need to make that appointment you need assistance. I've walked through this with a number of individuals and they've all said it's been great. I had a 94 year old yesterday said this was so smooth and easy, and it was great. So, please do let people know that we can help them to access that. That's excellent. Thank you. Bye bye. Okay. So, um, okay. I just, I just, Mindy Dom did indicate that, that she wasn't able to speak earlier. So I think she is here on the, on the call and she switched out the technology and she just wanted to, to sort of make a few remarks and I just wanted to acknowledge her attendance so she We welcome her to speak go ahead Mindy. Good morning everybody can you hear me okay. Yes. Oh, I'm so glad my I had to switch technology as Mary Beth said because for some reason my microphone wasn't working on my other one.  And what I learned when I come to these meetings is where I cannot be a great advocate for I mean not that I am a great advocate but where I can really deliver advocacy and so already I have a list going that I'm going to check in with Mary Beth afterwards. I know that the PVTA bought a very special piece of equipment that was very expensive around sanitizing its vehicles at the beginning of the pandemic. But I'm going to check in with them and just see what they do in between trips. I'm also going to check in with how they achieve six feet distance in the vans because I think that is sort of an interesting question to see how they're grappling with that, particularly since since we know that the populations that take the vans are probably the more vulnerable populations for infection. And I also I'm thrilled that Emma was here to talk about vaccination. I can't stress enough that the state is updating these prioritized populations. We frequently not only based on their recognition of oops we forgot this or advocacy from some groups, but based on the CDC's recommendations. So it's quite possible Mary Beth that we might see on the state website change today, because it's Thursday to include the 65 and older. And especially because we're taking our lead on who should get vaccinated from the CDC, although the state is in control of the prioritization of that and what the populations are. I will, I mean, am I maybe can't say this and maybe I shouldn't say this but in terms of the in response to the supply question. It's really a fault of this administration that we don't have a regular consistent adequate supply of the vaccine. There's already been information that you know the Trump administration refused to order an additional millions of doses when they had an opportunity I don't want to blame the companies on this. The companies actually were sort of begging the administration to put in their order so they could put vaccine aside for the United States that they weren't getting those orders. But hopefully that changes this coming Wednesday. And I am really hopeful that with the new administration, there will be, and who's already said, we're our priority is to get as much vaccine out there as possible, that they will invoke the National Production Act and other levers that they have at their disposal to get the manufacturer and the supply up. But I also want to remind folks that in order to really do this mass vaccination supply is part of it and supply also doesn't only include vaccines it also includes syringes, and it also includes vaccinators we need a workforce, and we need settings. So there's a whole logistic piece that I also am hopeful that a new administration is going to be much more involved in much more engaged with and be able to really sort of roll out in a very planned coordinated effective way. So I hate to say let's wait till Wednesday but I think a shift in administration will shift the federal commitment around vaccine in a different way that will be helpful to the state. I also want to say that if people think that they represent or they know people who represent a particular population that's not prioritized that they think should be. There's an email address on that website that people should write to they can also and you know let my office know we're forwarding those questions to the state. But I do think there's a little bit of we got to wait online. Hopefully seniors are not going to wait longer than anybody, you know, that are going to be in the front of the line. But for most people in the state who are not over the age of 75 at this point. I think it's, we're going to have to wait but thankfully we're not waiting without any prevention available. We have masks we have social distancing. We have a whole lot of steps that we can take avoiding large crowds that are available to us so we're not completely vulnerable and I really want to stress that that prevention is actually here to bridge the gap to vaccination. I love that Mary Beth you brought up the UMass site. That site is continuing four days a week until January 21 and then it will be reduced but still available. So it's not being eliminated just because students are coming back. They'll still be community testing the buy appointment part of that site is really important, because it not only allows them to know how many people to expect. But importantly, it keeps the crowds down. So it keeps the potential for infection low. And that's going to be really critical, especially as that site opens up to do more things whether it's campus testing and vaccination. This week I believe that site is also being enlisted to do first responder vaccination for the region. And many of us in the legislature hope that once first responders are vaccinated that that site will continue to be a regional vaccination site for other populations that hasn't been determined yet, but we're hoping that why start new when you've got something else going. So thank you so much. I don't want to, I could actually talk for the whole morning and I'm not. But I just want to make sure that people know that if you have any questions about what the state's doing what they're not doing please feel free to reach out advocacy for state agencies. My office is working remotely but we are still working. And so if things come up and they involve a state funded program or service, like the PVTA that you'll feel comfortable reaching out and I just want to really shout out all of your efforts and Mary Beth in particular for being a real local hero in terms of trying to figure out how to deliver services to a vulnerable population when all of our usual ways of delivering services are not following public health guidelines. So I thank all of you for your volunteer efforts on this and Mary Beth I am an admirer and a fan. And I want to give you the local medal of honor. I hope that I don't have to wear it or bear it. But one thing I will I will tell you the only the piece of information that I just we share with our regional councils on aging we share with mass council on aging, as well as the executive office of elder affairs that we've been talking about the vaccination process for seniors is that any process that becomes reliant on technology to sign up will fail with our population. And I think that we've seen that during the pandemic that the number of people who can access technology so limits and would create an inequitable access system. So that's just a piece you know we all echo that. You know so I know that we've been able to cobble together appointments for COVID testing for those who want to but many people I know we, we don't catch because they don't have access to technology they don't know how to use it. It's just they or they'll tell me like that's just too overwhelming I don't I'd like buy and I don't want to bother with it. So those other forms that other states are looking at around whether you take parts of the alphabet and say seniors who are A and B come on these days, and and allow more open drive in some kinds of situation are going to be important to that as well as our ability to work with populations that don't speak English so it's just like, you know the work that you, you lay the seeds for with the census and it's going to be people talking to people, because the number one concern and literally I get hundreds of calls like the past couple days, it's been really, I just, I don't know the word it's good it's not overwhelming it's it's appropriate response that individuals and the number one concern is that there will be a vaccination going on and they won't know it. That's the concern they want how will I know when you're doing it. That's, you know, because people people tell me or I have adults children calling me saying, How will I know my mother's 94 I live in New Hampshire she's here she doesn't watch TV she doesn't, you know, the forms of media that you or I might visit she so it's going to be an interesting reach out so I just want that's the only piece of advocacy that that I would like to share. In my following up on that, because what I will do today is I will follow up in two different directions on that one is with the Secretary of Health and Human Services who's taking on this commander well and the other is with my colleague. The chair of the elder services committee or at least was up until January 5 and I think probably still acting that way while our committees get cleaned out, can you give me a sense of what are the alternatives for people who don't rely on the traditional sources of media to find out like what do you reckon what would your recommendation for your population and Amherst be, would you want to make sure that you had people who could go knock on doors phone call. Some of it some of them I know that we're going to have to knock on doors I have people who still just write me letters. They don't, they don't have a phone they don't want to phone. They don't read the newspaper. So some of this is going to be, you know, we have databases we have robo calls, but you know we're going to have to use our flyers, we're going to have to use multiple levels of communicating to reach seniors. So what I'm thinking is not necessarily here today but maybe you and I could also meet with other interested people and we could figure out how I could not just what I can make sure happens on the state end, but how we can mobilize locally I I see a question from Tim and and I just want to also just add to that language communities. It's not clear to me how people who who who don't speak English also learn about these things. So that's just another concern Tim go ahead. The question, does the state have an opinion or policy regarding second doses versus do vaccinating everyone first. At this point, they haven't said that they do you know I think that's going to probably be something that they're going to recommend in the next, I'd say, two weeks. I say that because of the potential for this other strain of the virus being coming down the pike and wanting to make sure that as many people get vaccinated as possible, before we start to see that, or until we start to realize that that strain is in the Commonwealth. So they haven't yet said, first, everybody gets first doses first, but we're hearing that from the incoming administration we're hearing that from other public health people. So I think it's just a matter of time before they say, we're going to use whatever supply we have. I also think that they probably are reluctant to say that until they know there's going to be that second dose. We don't know if they know that's that supply of the second dose is, I think that's what we're waiting for a new administration to say is that go for it because we're going to employ all these other measures to make sure that we have an adequate second dose and three to four weeks. Thank you. So I think right now it's just, you know, three weeks for the Moderna and four weeks for Pfizer and keeping with that track. Thank you for that question. Thank you. Okay, folks moving on. Question to Mary Beth, I wanted to make sure that you, if there are any other other updates and kind of morphing into I think one of the updates has to do with walkability. But before we get into that, if there, if there are any things you anything else you wanted to add about to your update, besides what we've discussed. Yeah, no, I guess it is that we are doing that we're in the planning stages for launching our age friendly dementia friendly effort which the town will be proceeding with will be performing a working group. And then I'll be working with the Pioneer Valley Planning Commission in July through a grant and we will be conducting a large scale survey of all of Amherst seniors and getting a better sense of what the needs are the priorities. I'll be I'll be reading some more information for you about what the age friendly dementia friendly labels mean and what they translate to. But basically if you think of it as the social determinants of health so everything from transportation to the hard scape environment to healthcare to education and culture, looking at what we have here in town both mapping our resources that we have, and then putting forward a plan of how we're going to continue to make it accessible and friendly to individuals who are aging, and also those who might be experiencing dementia and of course, the statistics on dementia are rising, they are anticipating upwards to a 30 to 40% increase due to the isolation due to COVID. And certainly we're seeing that anecdotally amongst our individuals who have sheltered and been vulnerable and unable to leave their homes that even the progression is much greater and more rapid. So we have a lot of work ahead of us, and I will be bringing information at the next meeting but the presentation on age friendly dementia friendly. And then the walkability piece Pat will introduce but I have some really great news around proceeding for a grant that Karen pat and I believe participate in them. Pat, do you mind if I just go ahead and make a quick just going backwards for a second. Mindy I put out to the Emma dragon, just about the possibility I probably should have CC Paul Backelman on it but as an Amherst resident. I was really I was encouraging I think at this time it would be great if maybe if a robo call was sent out again, just to help to lower the anxiety to say we got this. This is the plan. This is the website you can go to but just know that we're, you're not going to miss it, you know, and it's not only for seniors right but for all residents. And I think it would go a long way to send out another robo call because I know it really helped when they did that with the COVID testing so I didn't want to inundate Paul with, you know, with more emails and stuff like I said it did mention to Emma but I know she's also really busy but I thought it would go a long way. I think that's a great idea because I think that at least giving people the website address that they can go and see what the priority is, and that, you know, that there'll be more information coming. I also think I was just going to write to Mary Beth that I would like to know where I can direct seniors to connect to a database that then they that you may be thinking that you're going to tap into use for that senior outreach. And it may be an appropriate thing in the robo call to say if you know a senior who's concerned, please make sure that they are part of the senior outreach or whatever at and then give information because I think the more that we can sort of encourage people to information portals that we know will have the information. Now, the better prepared will be when the, when in the supply comes and when the prioritization gets qualified so I'm, I'm like in the middle of writing an email to Mary Beth saying let's get together but I don't know what where I should tell people to go like if you're using a particular database to do outreach or that you anticipate using or I want to make sure that people know that now's the time to sign up for that database. Right. And, you know, that's a good thing if we're able to do that with people's current addresses phone numbers or however they'd like to be contacted. We'll always be able to get volunteers in Amherst to be able to do the outreach one way or the other I am not. I am not concerned about that I think once people need to be notified. I think it's a good thing to help their neighbors they're, they're, they're sitting on their, you know, my mother had this expression of sitting on their spoke is I'm not really sure like they're eager to help. And I think that doing some of that outreach may be one way to connect them to be able to help with their neighbors, but if we're able to sort of generate this information that here's what you can do now to be prepared to get the information later. I agree. I'll re I'll echo that question. I think before they use the robocall to advertise the free testing site for symptomatic individuals, they might have been reluctant to say yes to that, since they've used it for that purpose they may be open to it. Alright, thank you. Thank you so much for for your ideas and energy around that those issues. Karen and Mary Beth and I have been looking at we actually attended a web webinar on resources available through the Commonwealth. Walkability. It's part of the transportation department of transportation initiative. And as a result of that first of all was a highly informative and energizing workshop, and it got us thinking about all our friends and neighbors who love walking for health for both mental and physical for connection with nature the whole gamut of things that affect and also enrich our community because walkers are quite a very diverse group and and they when when seniors pause sometimes groups of walkers will pause and gather and chat at a local coffee shop and so it's just also great for local businesses as well. One of the things that we're doing in support of this is to try to elevate the presence of seniors and the importance of seniors related to both age friendly and dementia friendly opportunities and brainstorming around what would improve the richness of our town and the health of our fellow citizens and ourselves. So we are we're at the very earliest stages I think of gathering individuals who have an interest who are who have a passion for walking who rock regularly who bring others into it and and and who are excited about thinking about how we could make that experience more vibrant and advise Mary Beth and town grant makers for looking for resources to improve that situation for seniors and so so we're we're on a path for that and I guess what I'm inviting I'm inviting fellow council members to help us in that process of identifying walkers in your community or in your your network of people in town and and so that we you know can can communicate updates and will probably organize we're we haven't discussed this yet but probably organize some sort of information session or let's say brainstorming session on what what sites would work what what what what's better signage could do also say that we have a resource available that I wanted to share with the council members and that is that a woman from who works with the Department of Transportation and also has been involved in many walking projects in Boston she chairs Walk Boston and she and other people from this program are willing to do workshops to let us know what how other towns have acquired money to support projects of better signage of better of safer access routes to walking paths there's just a huge spectrum of possible projects and so why should Karen and Mary Beth and I have all the fun my hope was and my interest is that what I when I'm interested in hearing from the rest of you about is would you be open to or interested in having us listen to representative from walk Boston who is so knowledgeable about what's been done in other communities any thoughts about that or do you want to have anything to add Karen or Mary Beth I just would would like to add that one exercise and walking in particular is incredibly important to the senior population what we know from research is that movement and exercise is the number one way to fend off any kind of dementia and never mind the other ways in which exercise improves overall health and mental health. So that's why movement is very important and critical to what we do in our own mission. Currently, I have been in touch with our town planner about there is one specific grant that is available at this point in time that is referencing the shared streets. We had a number of projects here at the bank center that we wanted to accomplish that were exterior and related to well warned pathways that seniors frequently take to access services and downtown that needed improvement. So I probably almost a year ago I'd gotten some bids and just price those up so that I'd be able to present more knowingly on those. And I'm going to be meeting today at one o'clock with one of the assistant town planners to do a walk around the bangs and in our immediate area around walking trails and loops and seeing what is happening and sort of getting their opinion on some of that. But there's a lot more work to be done, you know, including the walkability study and I know Rosemary is nodding her head because she has been involved in this from the get go she's an avid walker. And so many of you, right, you know, when we were doing our move and groove.  And I know Sue goes out on the path there by green leaves because we I recently got in a call about a bridge that had been damaged and so we sent the inspectors out there. And so it's, it is a very broad issue and we're hoping to bring in some more resources and some experts from the state who provide technical assistance for free and some pro bono assistance. And that will also fold in with our age friendly and dementia friendly campaign and effort around accessibility. And so we're hoping to be limited to the downtown. And then Pat also I just want to mention had a colleague, and she, she and her husband have actually mapped out a number of walking routes and graded them by difficulty and terrain has done a tremendous amount of work and so I'm going to be working with her to create some online materials using what she's created and then also having it put into like a booklet form that seniors would have it available and it will include some maps and trails and we're going to be working with some students on that project to just butchress what she's got and we're very excited about that. So, move and groove keep walking and there has been such enthusiasm. I mean, I've just reached out in my own little area network of people at Greenleaves. And my gosh the enthusiasm just blows my hair back. There's just such such great interest in this so my sense is that we can really make some progress in this area for this first round of funding and possibly more. But the key I think is organizing and identifying folks who are passionate about this topic that'll help us in this issue and other issues of importance to seniors in the future. So, the name of the woman from Walk Boston is Leanne Taylor and I was looking through my notes about that and so anyway, there'll be more on that as we move along. I'm looking at our time and I'm looking at our ambitious agenda and I'm saying I'm thinking that we will probably there's a few items that will probably table for next time they're not so time sensitive as some of these other projects. So, Pat I have a comment to make that may be time sensitive. As far as the robocalls are concerned, I think it's important that a lot of attention be paid to the robocalls being spoken slowly and clearly, especially web addresses for everyone, let alone seniors. It seems like everyone younger than us speaks 100 miles an hour today, even people that have some years on them are speaking faster than I can comprehend much of the time so we need to make sure that those robocalls are slow and clear when it comes to that's an excellent point and yeah because otherwise you if you it becomes a source of frustration and it's important information. People are taking the time to reach out to you. You might not get the information that you need in order to be aware of it. I wanted to be another source of frustration. That's for sure. We don't need any more. Thank you. Okay, I see Chad's hand up. Yes. I'm looking. Can you unmute also that some of us don't have phone. You're talking about robocalls. Sure, absolutely. Gotta go by email as well. I think that it's clear that a variety of methods are going to have to be used and so I would echo what Mindy said about, you know, neighbors looking out for neighbors and identifying others who need information particularly and reassurance reassurance as well. Yeah, and I have to think that those systemically hard to reach populations, you know, again and again get overlooked in these, you know, in in these and get being being able to receive information that will help protect health and well being so there's no doubt about that we need to figure out strategies for overcoming obstacles. And I'm hearing some good suggestions from all of you. I'd like to turn next to the updates on our committee structure. And let me just, I sent you some documents, even today. Let me just tell you what my process, our process has been on on this and where we stand. And it's a reminder that we we realized that having five committees on a in a in a group of nine people was perhaps not terribly specific. And so really, I would like to recognize the great help that one of our most seasoned members, Rosemary Koffler has had together, she and I have been noodling together over how we could be leaner and meaner, or maybe leaner and kinder and figuring out how to eliminate the five committee structure and replace it with three, but also to delineate something about the charges of the these committees to give them some direction and some tasks to consider. And she she made and I an important point with and I that I agree with that, that that action groups work with problems that they're always that that they're prioritizing and these are, you know, these these times right now are an example of the need to to be able to be nimble and pivot. And sometimes triage to the most active important activities. So I guess I'm thinking that. And so anyway, they I worked I tried to integrate her thinking about this and my own thinking about this and come up with identifying and naming more simply three committees and coming up with a charge for those committees. So I think my my sense is and I love to hear more feedback from you is that the committee charges themselves, I think, you know, maybe that that's useful as as a working. Let me back up and say that I think that the committee charges are like are inherently fluid are going likely to be fluid they can represent some they the list that I have put are some of those activities that come to mind in this moment and perhaps for the year ahead. I had, but I'm not. I'm, I have a sense that that might change over time. So that might figure that might help us shape what where it is we're going. So I'm looking. And sort of looking at the this working document I want to just call your attention to a couple of things. And then we can open up for more discussion. So there are three core items that I've included one eliminates the five committee structure and replaces it with three of committees, well being program and services and community culture. The second item is encourages every council member to participate in at least one committee. And that really reflects my understanding, and that of the past of the way the council has worked. So that the expectation is that each one of you would serve identify a committee that calls to you, that you have some energy around. And, and I guess what that, you know, what that might mean is that you participate in some way that you need to, to chair it. In fact, it's probably a good idea to bring in other, you know, other leaders that because part of I think what we're trying to do is democratize and enliven the participation of fellow seniors to diversify the participation of fellow seniors. And so it just I think the presence of council members though on the committee does help any committee keep its focus at least that is consistent with the mission of the senior center of senior services and water and also serves for the committee as a source of information that's reliable and factual and, and helps people stay grounded. So, you, we may all want to discuss that further but I want to ask, I'm sort of bluntly asking each of you if you think that that's something that's a reasonable requirement and or expectation of your time and talent and service of that purpose. And finally, um, yeah, the committees should be populated and with individuals committed to becoming involved in some way and helping the committee. They could be part of a working group that could be part of a policy group that could be individuals like who have a special expertise to offer the senior center. So part of what Mary Beth and I constantly talk about is how we can mobilize different people with different kinds of talents and expertise and experience in support of the important activities and programs and services of the of the council itself. And senior services and senior services generally. So, um, yeah, and a component of that would also that we've been discussing is make perhaps, and we're perhaps making a little more of the, I don't know, respecting and maybe elevating people as associate members associate members of the senior center are kind of like super volunteers. They're doing the work that keeps us going. Our council does work that keeps the senior services going and responsive to the communities in which we live. But we cannot do our work alone, obviously. And so, having an associate membership they wouldn't associate members of like anyone of course could attend our meetings and we might well invite them. But they, they're not appointed in the same way that each of us has been appointed. That's the overall plan and I guess maybe that's the best place to start in reviewing this, this working document. Any, any thoughts on any of this. Mila, yeah, I see you. Excuse me. Can you tell us again, the five major committees you have and then you said you want to reduce that to three. Yes. I mean I'm saying yes to quickly because I I don't have. Let me see. Let me just see if I can pull out the original text on that. We had a committee on hold on here. Trying to think of. Excuse me, I do have it on my fingertips. Oh, thank you that's excellent. Thank you, Mary. These in the original bylaws had been transportation. Okay, funding wellness. Highland Valley elder services and the nominating committee. And we had determined that the nominating committee is really not shouldn't be a standing committee anyway it's an ad hoc committee, which is appointed only yet a certain period of time for one month. The funding committee is. I think we determined that also should be not a part of the council since we are not. Well, I won't get into that maybe Tim can talk about that more carefully. What do you say Tim. I'm mute. I agree. Because yeah, it's more appropriate for the friends and others to do the fundraising than us as the pointed members of the town. So getting into all that detail I agree with that. And Highland Valley elder services is also. We have a representative there. Highland Valley. In fact, Pat has graciously volunteered to do that. And that is not really a committee per se. Yeah. Transportation perhaps and wellness are both. And those would be included in the document that we established for well being programs and services and community culture. So we have three committees to replace what we have now. That doesn't the reduction to three committees just not reduce, any. I'll tell you that. And I see Jacqueline's hand up. Thank you. Can you hear me. Yes. I think this is. Right now. Excuse me, we're having trouble hearing you. Can you. I don't know. Something. Hello. Yes. Okay. We're getting feedback. Okay. Is this better. Yes. I think this is a good idea. And perhaps we can. We can look at having subcommittees. Or work groups as you suggested. And that, because you've gotten the, the, the basics of what we are looking to be doing. One is look at well being programs and services. And brought in the community. So having subcommittees within committees. The terminal, I would agree. I think I guess one of the things that I'm, I'm learning humbly is that the language matters. That a working group, for example, does not have the requirement to, to establish. To, to, to hold public meetings to, you know, because they're still working on problem solving. They're not making a policy recommendations. They're, they're just they're gathering information and so forth. So the, the, let's just say the paperwork and the complexity in that regard has is reduced. It gives people an opportunity to kind of work through an issue together. And with less sort of, I don't want to call it encumberment. That's not quite fair, but they can, they can spend more of their time and energy less on the mechanics of meeting, of meeting together and setting up public meetings and recording and other projects and, and all those things and spend more time focusing on some problem solving so working group is something and Mary Beth could speak to that more subcommittees I think do have obligations to, to, to hold public meetings as, you know, public bodies, and thus are required to, to have post their agenda in advance, you know, 48 hours before. So that's that distinction is important. And I think, I think, and I'm just expressing myself here on this one that we need to be able to have. Those energized energized people work who are want to do some really some practical work together to be able not to be encumbered in not to be to be able to focus on that work and to make progress on that. So that's, I hope that's a help those distinctions are helpful. Yes, yes. And, and, and I think having laid out the charges and conjunction with that makes it even more helpful. Because in the course of working on committees. One can begin or ones people can begin to see some of the issues that are emerging. And while they have a broad charge, they can adapt some particular activities to specific needs. Mm hmm. Okay, any other comments from Tim. Okay, I'm unmuted. Thank you. Yeah, for I like these committees and the document a little better than the first time my as you recall from the last meeting. When one establishes committees and structures like this I think we need to be clear and we need to be direct so people understand immediately what we're talking about. The titles, the charges and so forth. I think is a much better summation of that. I appreciate the, the edits. So I have a couple of editorial comments about the document itself, which will be I think first one well being I think it's well written my on the charge on all of them they start this is online. They start to explore ways I don't think you need the word to you can just start with explore ways of and then the charge or the second advice and eliminate the two. That's just the editorial as an editorial comment. More substantively program and services. We mentioned in an earlier discussion today the word accessibility I think that's really important and in a way that's what the program and services. But on the first point we say review study and make recommendations as to for safe reliable transportation and I would just add an accessibility, just as a suggestion so we have it in there so people know that's where one addresses accessibility questions. Absolutely, and accessibility questions I would echo that would would go to really all all our programs. So that would be one. And then the third one, I just don't understand immediately what community culture means. So I would suggest changing that title, and I would change it to this is a suggestion from me to inclusiveness and culture. I don't understand what this whole topic talks about community culture by itself standalone I just don't understand myself. I don't understand that and one suggestion would to be to just have inclusiveness and culture something like that, more pin points exactly what this committee is supposed to be doing then all the bullet points in the charge. relates to that so that's just one suggestion. And the third related to that. I don't understand the charge. I don't think I don't understand words like achieve a wider wisdom and communities I just don't think people I don't know what that means. So I would, I just don't feel comfortable with wording in that charge I actually like Rosemary's draft. The one that says that her charge was over adults and so on so forth if you have that in front of you so that would be one comment. So those are, I have a couple others but I don't want to dominate here. Some of the specifics but those are, let me start by starting there. Okay. Okay, let's see I see Rosemary's hand and I see Jacqueline's hand. And I see a vet's hand. So, let's see we've heard. Let's event we haven't heard from you yet so why don't we, why don't you speak up, and I see Chad's hand to. Okay, thank you. I was reviewing your document. I was struck that, well, I was attracted to the second and third parts. I mean, how to include involve community, the seniors. And then I was struck that that if I was doing that. I'm sure I'm not sure but I would imagine others would also be drawn to particular subcommittees. And I also then thought, well, this is an opportunity for service it looks like it's civic service. And I think it's important that maybe as subcommittee members that we learn something that we didn't work on before perhaps, because it's sort of like preaching to the choir. You know, so that's all I want to say that it would be good to challenge ourselves, maybe by joining a subcommittee that is, it's not something that you would be drawn to to begin with, so civic duty and learning something challenging ourselves. I'm getting feedback. Okay. All right. Thank you, that. Let's see. Chad, we haven't heard from you much yet why don't you go next. Let me put down my hand for. I'm the odd man out. I'm kind of, you know, being maybe the new guy. I take a totally different approach to it. For me, the charge for this group is the Elder Americans Act of 1964. That's, that's what we're about. We can go about that anyway we want. You know with the constraints of the town being a town, a town entity. You said we have to have the 24 hour notice on the meetings and all that. But this discussion is talking about how we go about that we can go about that anyway we want that's that's in our power. And for me committees, we can sit around. I mean, I'm involved in another organization that has bifurcated goals is a socialization isolation reduction type thing, and a service thing, you know, providing a service. We sit around and try to name every service that somebody could need or want we can never come up with that. We have to ask the people what do you need, and then, you know, perform that or give them that. And this is the same thing we can sit around and try to come up with all these ideas, but unless we have a strategic plan. You know, a work plan. I mean, the vision and values never change, but down to the next level the mission. Most organizations rewrite a new mission every five years or so. The mission comes from data. Today I learned from Mary Beth that there's going to be a survey coming out. Maybe that's something that we want to look at and say what are the needs of Amherst for the elders, you know, how do we supply that what is that. And the committees will flow from that. From that data, we began with the next level which is what is the mission for the next five years. Then from that comes goals, you know, it just keeps getting down like like a funnel, what what are the exact objectives to those goals. You know what's a timeline, and even all the way down to tasks and individual what individuals need so to me, you know the committees come from that that larger plan. Okay, thank thank you for that. I see Jacqueline. No, she just didn't lower her hand from the last time. Oh, okay. All right. Okay I see Rosemary. And Mila. I did have a number of comments about the document that you had sent out pad originally, and I'm wondering actually, if I'm able to share my screen because I put a number of things in red. Let me try that. Okay. Sure. Let me see. Let me see if I can do that. Did that work? No, I guess I'm seeing something there. Yeah. I'm in service. That's not the one I wanted to, you know, that might be the one I want to. For instance, I, there was a number in the first well being. I think that you had this goal or chart. I don't think that's necessary. Okay. I don't think that's necessary. Okay. In that statement. And then coming down here. I agree with Tim. Totally about this. Charges. It should be separate. I think. Okay. And I thought this statement was very peculiar. By choice or circumstance. Those who are not lonely, but happily. So I. I don't think that's necessary. Okay. I don't think that's necessary. I don't think that's necessary. I don't think that's totally about this. Charge is, is vague. I don't know what wider wisdom is and. I think it should. I just had trouble with that. I also had trouble with some of these other statements. They're not clear. They're not simple. They're not. Easily understood. And this. I don't think that's necessary. I don't think you should ever use an acronym. In a document. Sure. Unless it's been carefully identified or. Sure. And I, I didn't. I apologize for that. Cause I didn't. I meant, you can see my asterisk. I meant to identify. That it stands for black indigenous. Yeah. Yeah. Exactly. But not everybody knows that. No, that's right. You're right. It needs that. Absolutely. And for instance, this statement to establish ongoing occasions for white identified people. To build multicultural competence, respectful practices as allies and witnesses and. Interruptors of. Racist systems seems like a really complicated way of saying. Something that could be more simple. I would welcome new language on that. Sure. And. Yeah. To build self. And collective advocacy skills among. Identity groups. And to affirm the contributions that seniors make to the well functioning of Amherst. Also seems. Like it needs more definition to me. Sure. Not a simple statement. It's not. Yeah. Yeah. I would sit here and say, well, what exactly does that mean? If I'm on that? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. That's fair. I think those are fair, fair comments. And. Thank you. And thank you for that. I think I. I appreciate those. The comments that everyone is making. As. You know, welcoming. And I think it's important to understand. How we want our committees to function. And so I think those are helpful. And I feel like I'm not adequately, I haven't been clear enough myself. And let me, let me explain. To everyone. Well, at least what, what. What I'm proposing or what I'm thinking about. It really drawn from what, what I'm. What I'm thinking about. About the task of. Of looking at our current institutions. And, and definitely not only making them. More inclusive, but in the process also. And I think that's what I'm trying to say here. I think that's what I'm trying to say here. And that one of the things that happens in our Congress. And in other communities is that. That the two things. Are supported. And I'm looking for graceful language to indicate that. On one hand. And I'm looking for. To come together as a full community. But there's also some value. In specific identity groups like caucuses. In Congress. There's a white, there's a black caucus. There is a Latino caucus. There are. Our culture has damaged certain identity and social groups. And because, and I'm, I, this is my editorializing. Because white people continue to do some damage. To people of color in our language, in our. Our. Holding, let's say holding on to power. And not to my, and, and to the, and old ways of that have a, have the impact of adversely and disproportionately. Impacting people of color. That we need, there is work for white people to do. And I wanted to be bold about stating that. But also to recognize. So that's, that's kind of one problem to conceptualize. But I do think that doesn't mean that we, we create. New ghettos of different groups. No, it means that we move that we also create. I guess that the end game if there is one is, is that we come together. That we want people to be inclusive, but responsibly so, so we don't crash into each other and inadvertently exclude and, and insult and speak ignorantly. So that's, that's what I, I guess what I'm, that's what I'm looking, looking to, to, to do. And so I would welcome. You know, and I'm also, I'm just looking up at the time now because I promised Angela that we would be, she's got another meeting that she, that she has to slide into this space. And I want to recognize Sue, she's got her hand up as well.  Okay, good. Yeah, that's just to say we in five minutes, Angela wants us off. Okay, thank you. All right. So, um, I would say, so here's what I'm, I'm going to ask. This is a vitally important conversation and I really want us all together to get this right. And to figure it out. So I'm going to ask anyone who has who, who could work with me, uh, email me, call me, that sort of thing so that we can polish the, these things up. Um, do, so do connect with me. And, um, I think Sue would probably like to hear. Um, and then we'll, and so we'll put the, we'll continue this conversation at our next meeting. And, um, I guess in the next thing I want to just add, and we'll add other topics that we didn't cover today. Uh, you'll, those appear in our next meeting. And, um, Sue, uh, would you be looking for, uh, would it be helpful for you to have an approval of, uh, motion for approval of minutes? All right. Do I hear. Any other questions? Okay. I have some changes or additions that I should email to somebody. Okay. It could be, you can either email them to me. Okay. All right. Thank you. And Tim, your hand was. Yeah, I was going to just to be formal than I would, uh, move that we adopt the meeting. Um, so I'm not going to add. Assuming they aren't substantive. If they are substantive that we have to talk about, then we shouldn't address, but assuming it's just sort of technical things, then I think we could approve the minutes. Okay. Do I hear a second? Second. Okay. All right. All those in favor. Hi. Hi. Hi. Jacqueline. All right. All those opposed. I see no opposition. Do we have a, do we have a quorum supporting the minutes? I think we do. Okay. All right. All right. Topics, not regional. Uh, We'll have to table that. Uh, that, that. Um, for next meeting. Um, do I hear a motion for adjournment? So move. Okay. Chad and Tim. Okay. All right. All those in favor. Hi. Hi. Thanks everyone for such great thinking and your feedback. It's been really, really helpful. Thank you. All right. All right. All right. All right.


Okay, we're back. We're live with Global Connections and Carlos Suarez in Mexico, near Mexico City, where he heads the International Relations Department of a university down there. University Dodd, Puebla, did I get that right? Oh, University Dodd, there's Americas. The Americas. In Puebla, Mexico. That's right, in Puebla, Mexico. Anyway, so we need to talk about the Mexican perception of all of this and your perception and the international perception of how coronavirus is doing and how it affects governance. I mean, it's a very broad term, but governance is really at issue. And it just so happens that, you know, this issue, this whole examination is perfectly, timely, topical, appropriate in this week because things change from day to day. And this week, you've really hit it, Carlos. But tell me why you feel there's a connection. Well, it's exciting because we have several things going on. On one hand, we've got a crisis in China that has now been, you know, gradually expanding and connecting other parts of the world. It just underscores the interdependence and that this kind of issue, this type of disease, is going to be with us also in the future. It's going to be a challenge that we're going to continue to face. You know, a few years back, it was in Puebla, along the border with stars. And the nature of the global interdependent, you know, world economy, there's a movement of people. There's so much commercial, you know, shipping of goods and diseases like, you know, maybe today it's the coronavirus. They just, they don't stop at the border and show their papers. They had a way of, we can't send them that. And, you know, moreover, this becomes a global issue because it affects so many other players and countries and economies. Even Japan, the tourism industry now, and then Australia, heavily dependent on Chinese investments and on and on. We will unravel some of this. But I guess the challenge also is, you know, China today is a more, I don't know, you could say a more, I'm careful how I want to say this. I want to say a more responsible stakeholder. But what I mean is really more engaged in, let's say, multilateralism and global institutions. And to some extent, the response to this has been better and maybe somewhat more cooperative than what took place with the SARS-CoV-2 2003. The Chinese were very, very reluctant to let any international, I guess, you know, intervention or support. And here they reached out rather quickly to the World Health Organization for guidance and expertise and continue, you know, trying to manage it. It's unraveling as we speak in these last days and hours, literally. It continues to grow. But it's also just taking on more global dimension than where it was at the beginning back in December. Well, you know, it seems to me that this is a cycle. It's a feedback loop. But I mean is, you know, the more the disease goes across the border. We live in a flat world. We live in a world with great transportation. It can take you anywhere almost immediately. We live in a world where people move, you know, human flow. They move from hither to yon all the time and they carry with them whatever they're carrying. But it isn't only coronavirus. It'll be another one later and we haven't really learned to deal with it. We never really learned to deal with SARS. We never really learned to deal with MERS. And we never, for that matter, really learned to deal with Ebola. So these are international risks. They are international travelers, if you will. And we're going to have more and more of them. But what I think the revelation for me is the point you make about the effect they have on governance. But I would like to pose to you the reverse also. Governance has an effect on them. So it really tests humanity. It tests global governance. It tests global science. It tests global collaboration. It is biblical. It is biblical. I almost feel religion about this, Carlos. Yeah. And, you know, maybe I would say here again, particularly because we're dealing with China. It is a country that today has considerable expertise.  And, you know, the World Health Organization, an agency of the UN based in Geneva, part of their role, part of their function is to simply do that, to coordinate, to sort of bring together all the key stakeholders and players. And that means, you know, public health ministries, it means doctors who have expertise in this, and, you know, different NGOs, the whole gamut of players. And again, I'm just going back to China. I mean, I'm not going to say that everything they've done is perfect, but they have today, I think, more willingness to engage. And the question here, which is a non-legal puzzle, is, you know, why is that today? Well, in some ways, you could say that over time they've developed more norms. They've been working more and more with the international community. They've tried to learn some lessons. The other interesting puzzle is to point out he is an authoritarian regime, a system, you know, that's pretty tightly controlled. And there are elements of that that can help facilitate maybe addressing a complex emergency like this. But there are other parts that can be problematic, holding back information or disinformation. And then, moreover, this kind of crisis is one that takes on a lot of psychological sort of perceptions, because you have, especially with social media, you can feel a lot of, you know, different bad information, poor information, panic information. Yeah, I want to tell you about a film clip that a friend of mine sent me from Hong Kong. Everybody has this view, it sort of catches like a virus, this view that a mask will help you. As a matter of fact, more likely the mask will help the next guy, but not necessarily you. And, you know, what happened in Hong Kong a couple of days ago was that people wanted to buy masks. And they went to a place downtown in Hong Kong, probably Nathan Road, through Buy Masks. And they lined up and they lined up beyond that. They lined up all around Hong Kong. This line was a snake line that went from block to block to block and around the next block. So some fellow took, you know, his cell phone and he walked the line. He walked from the beginning to where he thought it might end. And he never got to the end. There were virtually thousands of people waiting online for masks. And that's what I call panic. And by the way, they were all wearing masks anyway, because they wanted more masks. Yeah, you know, that's fascinating. And, you know, since Hong Kong has been, of course, you know, for the past year with these high profile protests, it's quite interesting to see where there's been sort of both on one hand. It has slowed down some of the protests, but it has also gotten renewed increase in protest activity because there's also continued fear about, you know, mainland China and, you know, what it means, either the viral transmission itself because even SARS had a profound impact on Hong Kong. But even more general, you know, concern that, I don't know, mainland Chinese may prefer to travel to Hong Kong for medical help. It could overwhelm them. But even more than that, just this whole puzzle of the protest movement that's been going on there, you know, how this could, I don't know, expand it or complicate it even more. You know what, by the way, one other point in Hong Kong was, and this points up the misinformation, disinformation or non-information, there was an apartment building and there was a case in the apartment building and within the incubation period, there was a second case, 10 stories away in the apartment building. Well, the authorities figured there must be something that transmitted the disease from this one story to 10 stories away, so they closed the apartment building. They figured it was in the air system maybe, the water system, who knows what. They closed the apartment building, took everybody out of the apartment building and put them in some kind of, you know, isolation. So what you get there is this, it's not all, it's mixed with panic, but maybe it's rational to say that we don't know how this is transmitted. So we are suspicious of everything. We are always looking for vectors and connections between one case and the next. But what I wanted to ask you, Carlos, is this, you know, just as it's a flat world, just as it takes reduced borders to transmit an epidemic or a pandemic like this, it also takes global cooperation to stop it across borders in the same way. And to the end of the day, maybe sooner than later, we need to have global leadership. So, you know, just the one country of China is not enough to stop this, because it spilled out of China already. And, you know, in the United States, I think that Donald Trump doesn't have a clue exactly what the risks are. He is cutting funds to the World Health Organization. He is not taking affirmative steps. The CDC waited a good long time before they even declared it an emergency. And so, you know, I don't have a lot of confidence that the United States is really in on trying to solve it. The World Health Organization in Europe, that is a better bet seems to me simply because it is a world organization. So would you agree with me that there needs to be a leader who steps up or a leader organization who steps up and coordinates all the efforts everywhere, brings all the medical research people together, you know, and works in a collaborative way to find a solution. And that should probably be the World Health Organization. What do you think? Yeah, no, it is. And it is the point organization here. It is long-established and it has direct ties to all of the various, you know, public health ministries in countries. So that is the role that it's playing now. And again, remarkable and noteworthy that China reached out this time quite early in the process. So it's there. And yet, keep in mind, again, what we call global governance, I mean, this World Health Organization, it has expertise, but it doesn't have somehow, you know, endless capacity. A lot of what is entailed in the logistics of dealing with this, you know, the quarantines and movement of people. And that's really more government functions. And China is basically in charge of that.  And I just go back to this. I think one of the problems, this is different than some other issues. When you have refugees or you have, you know, malnutrition, starvation, it's pretty straightforward what it entails. I guess what I want to say is this type of crisis takes a lot more managing also the information, the panic. Look at the tension now we've had to a lot of xenophobia and a lot of anti-Chinese. Even in the U.S., you know, Uber drivers refusing to pick up Asians and stigmatizing once again.  I heard all kinds of stories there.  But I wonder, is there anything you can say from Hawaii? Have there been any local reactions or, you know, examples of... I think a lot of people don't, a lot of people don't really feel it as a threat here. But the state health department has been clear to say that it could come here anytime. And indeed, if you look at Hawaii's position in the Pacific, then in travel and in tourism, we get people coming from all over and any one of them could be affected. And before you know it, with the incubation period and the high transmitability of the disease, one person could infect dozens, who knows how many, and then it goes from there logarithmically. And so, you know, we could have it. And if we did have it, it was publicized. You know, then we have some people in isolation right now, but I don't think we have live cases. If it was publicized, you know, how would that affect our tourism, our monoeconomy in tourism? Would people come here? I'm not so sure they would. That could have a profound effect on us. So we haven't seen the state really, you know, belly up to this. I don't know if any affirmative steps are being taken. We've interviewed some medical professionals and some state officials on the epidemic.  But that doesn't solve the problem about what you do when you're faced with a real quarantine requirement. I don't think people realize that quarantine A can increase your susceptibility, increase the likelihood of transmission to you. And B, and very scary talk about panic, and B, quarantine is like being in prison, you know? That's the complaint in China. And China has effectively imprisoned millions of people. And that undermines the stability and good order of Chinese society, which we should get to. You talked about governance, right? So how does it break down when you have an epidemic of this magnitude? What happens to governance? What's the process? What's the way in which you see it unfold? Well, again, in a state like China, very top-down hierarchical, you've got perhaps a capacity, you know, that they're just given the nature. But I was hearing in a report earlier today, even where in some of the areas there that are most closely affected, you've got the government is paying people to sort of snitch on others, to basically report people who have traveled to the, you know, main center or come back from there. So it creates this kind of, you know, big brothers watching you and pretty scary. And, you know, before I forget, I wanted to also mention, because, you know, we've been seeing it, while it is primarily in China, and that's where the back side, I think, reached over 60,000 cases now, it is beginning to spread quite a bit. And I would say one of the big concerns would be the countries in Africa, because Africa is the place where China is deeply engaged. And there's, you know, a steady flow of Chinese workers and, you know, a lot of investment in the region. At some point, you know, it's possible. And the reason that, pardon me, because many of these countries in Africa simply don't have the capacity, you know, the ability that you would have in Japan or Europe or even Hawaii for, you know, trying to contain it, trying to deal with it. So I think we, you know, we are going to be vulnerable. Moreover, like we often see in these things, it's probably going to get worse before it gets really much better. And the last few days have signaled that. The governance issue, again, it's a daunting task, because you're playing like a game of chess on many levels, and it's always constantly moving. And you've got different, you know, we saw these amazing reports that they built new hospitals in 48 hours, or is there some ridiculous, I mean, really it's just some sort of, it's not a full-fledged hospital, but certainly a place to contain people quickly. But, you know, back to this panic mode, too, that the government, but if anything, again, the Chinese government has the capacity that you don't see in many others to quickly make a decision and implement it, often with some pretty harsh means. Yeah, and sometimes wrong. I mean, you see these pictures of huge gymnasiums with virtually thousands of beds, and each bed is two feet from the next bed. If you were there, and you know you had, let's say, an ordinary, you know, run-of-the-mill cold, you should be terrified, because there's a fair chance you're two feet away from somebody who may have a serious coronavirus problem, and then you're likely to get it.  If you try to leave, you're going to be violating the law, and they're going to, you know, treat you badly as a prisoner, as a lawbreaker.   They're also disappearing. There was an article, I think, in the post for the proposition for the fact that two journalists who were reporting the status of this matter in China and Wuhan have disappeared. Their writings have stopped. You know, it's on the internet. That's how they do their journalism. So what you have is the government is panicking. The government is taking, you know, using its power, but perhaps in ways that are less than wise and less than humane, and that is further escalating the distrust of the people against the government. So, you know, I think it is a spiral. Yeah. And these, you know, these types of crises, whether it's natural or man-made, in this case, a disease, they can have a profound impact on the political credibility and legitimacy. If the government ends up losing trust and more faith or doesn't systematically, it becomes a pressure point. And, you know, in today's China, again, not a democracy, but certainly a larger and larger population that is more connected to the world, more aware of, let's say, different, you know, ways of doing things and increasingly likely to be more critical of the government in its response. So that's going to continue. And here, again, this issue is a global issue, again, as we said already, because it's not something that can easily be contained within a border. Simply the movement of people, the movement of merchandise, think of how many container ships come out of China every single day to the world, all those goodies that we buy. And so it's, you know, pandemic. It's one of these things that we've long been saying now for the past 10, 20 years, this is what the future is going to be, more and more of these. And so we need to learn. We need to better prepare. And like anything, it just requires pretty steady training, education training. And particularly for maybe weaker states, that's not so easy, places like Africa or even other parts of, you know, different parts of Asia, where we're going to see a difficulty. You know, real quick as well, the name of it, I think they finally gave it the formal name, but the coronavirus, as we've been calling it, I'm in Mexico, as you know, and one of the first early misinformation that came out was in the social media. Corona beer is responsible for it. And as you can imagine, this is one of the largest exports of Mexico. You can buy it everywhere on the planet and they had to move very quickly from crisis managers to somehow put out that fire and say, no, no, no, no. In fact, maybe you should drink two or three coronas and you'll feel better about that. Yeah, there you go. That's a better approach. No, it's a very good beer. It's a very good thing about Mexico. Unfortunately, there's no relationship at all. So, you know, but you point out about the economy and the economic effects. And I think that's, you know, I think there's three things operating. One is, you know, the scourge of the pandemic. The second is, you know, loss of confidence in governments because they can't seem to fix it. It keeps on getting worse. And just when you thought it might be getting better, it gets much worse every day.  Forget about panic for a moment. They don't go to the store. They don't engage in business. They don't go to their jobs. Their factories slow down. It's not as if everybody in China has a bottomless pit of money they can draw from. They're not earning any money. The whole economy is slowing down. And, you know, they say it was going to be down some remarkable percentage, but I think it's going to be down much more than that. Because this country, more than any other country, I think, is globally connected. Okay, and if it slows down, it's going to have an effect on so many other countries. It's about the disease, just the economy. And when the economy goes down, you have instability, right? This is all part of global connection and international relations. And so each one feeds the other. Wherever are we on that continuum now? And we've already had some of the leading sort of economic forecast saying, this is going to have a profound impact on China's economy. It's down from six to five and a half, whatever. I mean, numbers are hard to know with any precision. Even places like Silicon Valley that depend on a lot of those supply chains coming out of China worldwide, every place that you can imagine. And again, the Chinese economy in many ways increasingly becoming the anchor of the global economy. And so that's another reason why there is a concern. This is a global issue. Places, I mentioned Australia, many African countries, even several South American countries, places like Bolivia and Peru, the number one foreign investor, China. If their economy tanks, if they are suddenly slowing down their production of anything, it's going to have ripple effects throughout the world economy. And places that have been for years now salivating with all this outreach by China, particularly for minerals, natural resources. But that could quickly change. So we'll wait to see how bad it's going to get. We have a show coming on this afternoon about the effect on the stock market and the economy in general, the health of the economy in general. But let me put this question to you, Carlos. So as I mentioned in the budget that Donald Trump submitted, he cut funding to World Health Organization, and I think to the CDC and for medical research, aside from all the social safety net programs that he's cutting. And so, given this development over the past few weeks, if you were Donald Trump, the leader of the free world, arguably the most powerful executive in the world, what would you do in order to get the world collaborated, get the world together on sharing medical research, on creating task forces, on expediting the research that will hopefully lead to a vaccine long before the one year or the 18 months that they are presently predicting? What would you do? Well, look, I don't expect we're going to have a lot of, you know, somehow big, bright ideas coming from Donald Trump. The best we can hope for is that he doesn't choose to intervene or interfere in some way, because in general, he's not been one who gives a lot of weight to expertise, to, you know, more studies and more analyses, or even increasing budgets for a government agency like the Center for Disease Control. So I don't know. On one hand, you know, he's got to put it in the context of, this is going to hurt you if you don't help, and maybe even it's going to hurt your friendship and you want this trade deal to, you know, somehow have more fruition, he needs to think carefully about, you know, being more positive. And again, I can't speak for the president, but in general, his approach to foreign policy has been one of critical of international institutions of globalism, of globalization broadly, and, you know, it's all about him. And so I don't see Trump taking a leadership role, and in many ways, the best hope would be that he step back, let the leaders of the CDC in Atlanta take the role, because that's what they do and what they know. And beyond that, that, you know, hopefully it might be avoided that the Congress can step up and say, okay, look, you know, if there's more money needed or more attention or whatever, let's show some broader support. I wouldn't be looking for the president for leadership on this, and, you know, our hope is that maybe he doesn't say more or intervene more, just kind of stay out of it and let the experts take the lead. Let me ask you a more ridiculous question, Carlos. It just, it appears to me that there are many organizations in this country and possibly in Mexico, too, that are stepping up non-profits or businesses that are trying to ameliorate the situation.  This is not government money now. This is private money or non-profit money. And it strikes me that, yeah, sure, you can send it all you want, but it's peanuts compared to what could happen if government digs deeper and actually commits real resources to it. But what can the individual do? What can the non-profit do? What can the altruistic business do to actually help on this sort of thing and to help things keep stabilized, you know, the economy stabilized, governance and, you know, social order stabilized, and, of course, save lives? Yeah, well, again, no quick easy answers there. I think, on one hand, there are clear limitations on what you or I as an individual can do. Perhaps the best is to stay informed, be plugged in, know, you know, what is this about? You know, what are some of the symptoms? And the challenge of this particular disease is that, different from maybe the stars of a time ago, a very high percentage of those affected don't really show big symptoms of it. So they may have it, and that's why they've got the quarantine for up to two weeks because it can stay that long. And so many people who have relatively mild symptoms can be carrying it and be potentially spreading it. So it's information, I think knowledge, and that's the key part. Beyond that, I think, and, you know, this is something more and more, every place has to deal with. We need to be prepared for emergencies, for, you know, disasters. Every place has them, many are natural, some are unexpected or man-made, but they're going to happen, and it does require, again, a concerted effort by government, by NGOs, by individuals, by schools to help educate because, you know, these are issues that are going to continue to be with us. Where I am, for example, here, it's a very, you know, a zone prone to both earthquakes and then we have a massive active volcano that's, you know, 30 miles from here. So there's always efforts to kind of be aware of that as there are in other places. The Philippines or Indonesia, they're aware. Japan, obviously well-prepared for their tsunami and other natural disasters. So that's the best I think either local organization or local government can do is use it as an opportunity to make sure you've checked your stock that you're prepared, that you're carrying out some, you know, training because it's all about that mitigating something that's going to happen. Be prepared. I myself, since I've been here now a couple of years, I've always got my own map, again, for the volcanic ash that we get here pretty regularly and I've got them everywhere. My car, my office and my home, I even have my own little backpack disaster preparedness kit from my own days in Hawaii.  And today we depend so much on the ATM machine or our, you know, electronics to work. And if you don't have juice, you don't have a charger. You don't have gas in your car. You don't have water to drink. I think increasingly we all have to be thinking more about that. How can you survive, you know, a week or three days or whatever it might be, whether it's a pandemic, whether it's a natural disaster. And how can the community survive?   I went to two stores that would ordinarily cover, you know, have hand sanitizer, shelf upon shelf upon shelf. All the shelves were empty in all the stores I designed. And that tells you a lot. Anyway, Carlos, we have to follow the story. It's not going to end. Thank you so much. Carlos Juarez, University of America in Puebla, Mexico. Thank you so much. Aloha.