Welcome back to the Nintendo Prime podcast and this week is a special week because This is the week before E3 Oh boy and It's a bit of a tough week for me because like on Thursday. I'm going on a little vacation with my family And I'm coming back like right when E3 starts a lot of work hasn't started yet. So I'm not overwhelmed yet, but Oh boy. Yeah. Oh boy Just look forward with a bunch of things in the pipeline to get you guys hyped up for E3 before it happens But for our first topic this week Eric Moore over here and Nathaniel Ruffel Jantz almost forgot those intros in there. Yeah We're gonna be talking a little bit of what I'm calling the headset fiasco with Nintendo switch So back in January Nintendo announced that voice chat would be through an app on a phone and we just kind of said oh, maybe that'll be an option That was always like it's okay if it's an option. They didn't make it sound like it was an option We're like, maybe it'll just be an option All right fast forward We finally get a glimpse at voice chat on switch due to a third party. I am noting for those out there We think I forgot it's a third party headset for the Nintendo switch However, it's officially licensed and being promoted by Nintendo and it's actually included in some bundles in Japan for Splatoon 2 Oh, yeah, so I know Some of you want to dismiss it, but I mean Nintendo is promoting it so I'll put it to you this way Were there Nintendo headsets for any other system? No, not Nintendo branded ones. You know, it's always been third party And I know people say oh, but the Wii U like they didn't have voice chat in Nintendo games But there was voice chat in other games on Wii U. So like voice chat existed on Wii U In fact the solution Wii U had Pretty basic and is better than what we're getting now with a paid online service. Yeah What they have done with Splatoon 2 is They've created what looks like it looks like a pretty cool headset the headset itself looks fine We don't know the quality of the mic of the speakers, but like the look of it looks fine Yeah, it looks very Splatoon 2 like very hipster very like in with it like in with the cool You know behind the head it whatever it looks fine I don't have a problem with the headset itself, but how it connects to voice chat and audio in the game is Okay, before I get into my opinions, I guess I'll just say what it what it is So the headphone plug into a little squiddling dongle That dongle has two wires coming from it one that plugs into your phone Which enables your voice chat through their voice chat app Another that plugs into the switch itself, which gives you the game audio So it's basically like an audio splicer it's bringing two sources together into one headset Audio splicing is a thing that exists It's it's existed forever people do it when like when they're setting up their home theater systems It happens all the time, but when they do that It's a set and forget you set it up and you never have to touch it again Unless you're adding a new device to the setup and then once that set up you never have to touch it again uh Audio splicing for things like voice chat Hasn't really been around in decades Like pcs fixed this issue a long time ago and also people will bring up the fact that there's still pc headsets today That aren't usb that have you know a sound and a separate microphone Yep But those inputs are literally right next to each other and it's still one cord coming from your headset That just splits right at the end into inputs on a single a single device Keypoint there so This has been fixed forever when xbox brought Gaming to online and had voice chat. It did not have two devices to do it It was one device. Yep. It plugged into your controller and went to your head and yeah Period and I know some people say maybe it's a design fault with nintendo where oh, they don't uh, you know, they didn't put a port on the The the pro controller or the joycon grip controller and that's why they have to do this solution And to that I always say I think bluetooth headsets been around forever. Yeah, right? Wow. Yeah, I mean They've been around almost as long as bluetooth been around Like like I was using it with my old flip phones back in the early 2000s like bluetooth Is an easy solution to this we're gonna say well, nintendo is just cutting the cords It's a portable system. You don't want cords. So you bluetooth it Yeah, I mean think about how many people when they had their phones Even today even with all the tech we have still have those bluetooth earpieces Oh, yeah, because they don't want to run a cord There's even people that wear bluetooth headphones when they're out jogging and even apple is not promoting You know wireless headphones because they don't have the headphone jack Yeah, they want you to use wireless headphones when you're jogging because it's still more convenient You eliminate the cord. Yep. Okay, even though there there are more comfortable There are issues with eliminating the cord, especially with like the ear pods you could lose one etc but the point the grander point here is that cords are not convenient and It's already inconvenient enough to have a single cord people have generally accepted That's okay at times like my mouse they make wireless mouse But I still use one with the cord because I have a better response rate with it Just like a lot of people use wireless controllers with their consoles like the switch But technically wired controllers are still better. There's less latency. Yep But sound that's not as big of an issue people have no problem with the wirelessness of their sound so When I see this convoluted setup I just think A couple things Either voice chat was an afterthought Or Nintendo never wanted you to use voice chat in the first place And all they are doing is giving you voice chat so they could tick a box and say we have voice chat too And I want to have a problem. Yeah If that's all like if all the ten don't want to do to say look we have voice chat you had that on Wii U Yeah And it was just a wire plugged into your system plugged into your gamepad like Like everyone else. Yep. Yeah, you didn't have the online infrastructure. You didn't have the lobbies You didn't have you know the the easy you know, they did have video chat for a while But they didn't make it easy But it was doable and convenient in terms of just the act of chatting This isn't even the act of getting a group together the chat and everything That's what the app is supposed to make really really easy This is just the act of chatting requires I have to plug something into my switch and plug something into my phone and then plug That into a device and then plug something into that device to listen. Yeah Three chords for a one chord problem. Yep, or a chordless problem Um So what are your thoughts on this Eric? Yeah, I know I the second I walked into your office And you showed me the picture and like what the hell is that and then you said what it was and I was like You got to be crapping me and in not so polite terms This just seems Absolutely ridiculous I I just again we've talked about comfort and you know the whole portability thing This does not make it any easier to this actually makes it harder to portable What's funny about the portability factor, right?  Let's wait and see what they do with it worst-case scenario Oh dang, I plug You know earbuds into my phone and voice chat through it and life is life, right? Like whatever you you That that that's what we basically thought was the worst-case possible scenario We had no idea Even a fleeting thought in our minds that you would have to get the game audio off the switch as well Because the app isn't able to stream the audio from the system that that didn't didn't really even cross our minds Is a worst-case scenario a worst-case scenario was I have to use my phone for voice chat. Yep um And that while that didn't sound enticing to us because you know like me like it's not enticing to me at all To use my phone because my phone gets a zillion notifications. I get emails on it. I have my business stuff coming through it I got my personal stuff coming through it. I have app updates I have you know tons of stuff that is always draining the battery and now I have to run a voice app So I I game for a three hour session. My phone's dead. Oh, and I You probably want to get that out of it. Yeah, and I don't want to deal with that I'll you know I just don't want to have to do why would I deal with that when I have a system plugged in that's constantly powered Right. Exactly. Anyways, so you move you move into What regi fissi may said back then on why they were going the voice app route and you're like, okay I guess just benefit of it out and see what happens and he said they Think they it was basically a comment on how they don't think clunky headsets make sense And then the first time we see a legit voice chat on the switch One it's with a clunky headset that has an even clunkier setup Yeah, at least the quote-unquote what he defines as clunky people who use those headsets don't think they're clunky They're comfortable like we said that the headsets aren't terrible. No, people don't have like the the Splatoon 2 headset looks fine Uh headsets in general like when he said clunky everyone was kind of like People wear it because that's comfortable. It provides better sound and audio quality. They're not doing it because it's clunky Yeah, no one like when I wear I have these they're not super expensive But I have these these decent sony headphones that my sister got me for Christmas because I wanted something that was more noise canceling when I'm mowing the lawn and Do you think I care that they're big? It would feel weird if it could noise cancel and not be honest I'm like, yeah, how you canceling are all the noise on my ear. Why not covering my ear? Yeah, so None of these like oh, it's clunky. Yeah, that's never been like ear pods exist if I think it's clunky There's already a solution. Just use a different type of headphone a different type of headset Like like people choose to use the clunky because it's a better quality sound. It has noise cancellation. It is just Generally a more pleasing experience And they usually have higher quality microphones included with them Voight versus like, you know, you wear an ear buds and you get a little mic down here Those mics are okay. Yeah, but they're not great. Right and and so headset mics are usually better now We get to now We're the very first time we even see voice chat for the switch Forget if you've been to a store and you saw a headset that said, you know supports the switch Fine I've even seen wireless headsets that say supports the switch But you know how it supports the switch with a bluetooth thing you plug into the headphone jack that gives you audio Which is exactly what we do sometimes when I'm live streaming so I know that works, but we haven't heard a voice chat Actually, it's like oh you bought a headset, but no one ever said the microphone was going to work natively with the switch Yeah, no one ever said that nintendo's never said that so I know some people like this is just an option for a setup And it's like but nintendo has never hinted that there's any other way to set it up But through your phone. Yeah, that's definitely that that I mean I'm bringing this up and why I'm getting a little more passionate about you know What other people have said is I did a video on this Um, and I admit it was a little bit of a little ranty I was a little more upset that I I wasn't able to talk as calm talk about it as calmly as I wanted like right now. I feel like I'm being rather calm but A lot of people responded saying that I my criticism isn't legit and that I um I I guess the most recent comment I read was it was along the lines of I Sound like a whiny brat because something doesn't work for me. This is just an option There's going to be other ways to do it and all I can say to that is that where it is is I hope there's other ways to do it I sincerely hope that like nintendo at ether's like hey dude like you can do that or you just get a bluetooth headset I would love if nintendo comes out and says that but here's the thing nintendo has not deviated From the company line on this since they announced voice chat. They have said 100 of the time you have to have the voice app Yep, and now We'll get to a topic later because now we know some specific details about nintendo's online system But in their online system listing now It specifically says voice app Something that you're paying to gain access to Meaning that there's no other voice chat listed on there any anywhere else Everything nintendo has said is that voice chat is through your phone through your phone through your phone They've never deviated from that. So this setup to me tells me that It's not just it wanted supports the fact that voice chats through your phone because you have to connect a cord to your phone Which means that's probably your microphone and headphone for the voice chat labs But now what what we're learning out of this setup is that there is apparently no way or at least no way That's publicly known through the app to stream the audio of the game through that app as well Meaning you have to have a splicer with two cords to get game audio and to get voice chat through the same headset And that is what's archaic about this and I know Some people might be okay with this and that's fine if it doesn't bother you that you have to hook up Three cords when it used to only take one or one cord and you want to argue it's just splicing into two fine That's great that it does not bother you But let me give you some examples of how this can bother you and now I wish I would have brought my I knew I wanted to give some examples. So Imagine that I'm holding my switch. Well, let's pretend this phone is a switch. All right And let's pretend I have my let's say that's not can't it's not can't look the phone. This is the switch All right, I grab a pair of headphones. I'm like cool I want to chat with my buddies while I'm playing some Splatoon 2. This should be great So I go and I get my headset on and I plug it into my switch Huh, there's no way to talk to anyone in here. Okay, cool. Let me plug it into and granted. I'm in portable mode Let me plug that into here. Cool. Now. I'm chatting with my buddies. I can't hear my game What do I do? What do I do? Oh, I know Let me get an audio splicer Oh, all right. So I'll plug a cord in here Plug a cord in here plug my cord into the audio splicer put it up to here Oh, it doesn't seem too bad. It doesn't seem too bad. Hey guys, how's it going?  I just unplugged it from my phone Lost my audio. Yep. Crap. I just yanked the cord and actually if you know anything about those kind of cords It's easy to crack them and have it not work correctly anymore And then you got to adjust it and hold it in position So we've all if you guys have used headphones over the years you all know how it works No matter how high quality the cable is if you yank it around like that That can happen. Yep. So now how do I solve that? How do I solve the fact that there might be some yank? How do I how do I solve the fact that you know? Maybe I forget that I'm voice chatting through my phone because no other device in the world works this way And I stand up with my switch to go to the crapper drag my phone with now There it is getting dragged along the ground my phone gets tossed around now. I'm cracking my phone It's also saying that your cords are long enough. I know what yeah, I mean I guess I could have a hundred foot cord and then never moves right And the thing is like There have been convenient times for audio splicers say we're both watching a movie Put an end splice it off two different headphones. Yeah, here's the thing We're not really moving this device right when we're watching the movie You're just sitting there watching it when you are playing you can't tell me that people just game And when you're on the go, you're not adjusting around you're not walking around Oh, now I got my phone in my pocket and I'm trying to voice chat with people While I'm doing this and blah blah blah next thing, you know, my phone's jacked and I don't realize it until also my voice audio cuts out There are so many situations Where this doesn't make sense when you're portable at all now Let's imagine that we're in a couch situation. My switch is up there in the dock I'm playing on my tv here Here we'll make this the switch in that case. Here's my phone. There's the switch. It's docked on the tv All right, let's pretend that this is about a good distance away Let's say let's say we're about 10 feet away from the tv. We got a 60 inch tv We're 10 feet away on the couch. Yeah, all right.  Oh, cool. Cool. All right, let's put the headphones in hold them on Hey, we're chatting away chatting away. Oh, hey, we're playing slow, slow, slow, slow, man I'm not really getting any audio feedback here. Like why did I just get splattered from behind? I didn't hear anything. Oh, right. I have to run a cord Through a splicer all the way across my living room and plug it directly into my switch Or I'm assuming you could probably plug it like if you're in the back of your tv plug it into the back of your tv And How is that convenient? Yeah, I don't it's not again. Again, my biggest thing is Homes your cord Well the thing Let's say let's say anything extended. Well, I know you can't accept there are again That's more cords and more things you have to plug in. Yeah Yeah, it even then even then just imagine People already don't sometimes like having corded controllers, right? They don't like running that cord across their living room to their couch Why do you think wireless controllers are so popular as they are people don't want to run that cord back to the system? Because what was the common issue people tripped over it all the time yanked the system all yanked the controller out of Hands, you know people with kids god It was so hard to even play video games with kids around because they would always want to play with the cords So now you're telling me that when I that I'm gonna have that same problem happening again Just so I can get audio from my game Yep a solution that was solved by plugging Audio into the Wii U game pad just last generation or a solution that was also solved by bluetooth So nintendo is bringing back an archaic method of voice chat and I know some people are gonna say Yeah, maybe bluetooth is there maybe you can natively drop through the switch Even though nintendo has never once stated that is even a possibility They've they've stayed to the company. It'd be different if they if they even were in a gray area like oh You can you can also voice chat through if they said also voice chat through phone That implies there's something to go along with that Yep, that there's a different method they're not talking about but that's not what they're doing Everything this is on the company line and the fact that an officially licensed product that's packaged with certain editions of swatoon in japan is coming out and Even has to audio splice to make it work Tells you there's a problem. Oh, definitely Why if there is a better way to do it if audio can be streamed to the phone Why are they splicing in the first place? It doesn't look cool. You know You know you get the you get to get the funny little dongle. Yeah, you get the funny little splatoon dongle But it's like no Nothing about that is good Like for all the people that are getting on my case about like, oh my gosh, what what's wrong with you?  How am I? How are my complaints illegitimate it right? Like I don't like one for starters In case this isn't clear to some people Nintendo prime is kind of My little brain child, right? So like a lot of what I talk about is opinions and if you don't like my opinion, that's okay I don't I don't like I'm not complaining that people are complaining about what I said because They they can Not like what I have to say. That's okay. No one has to like what I have to say No one has to time. I don't know So say like people don't have to agree with me.  Yeah, right It it's creating a problem that was solved decades ago. It's like I I don't know I I always thought worst-case scenario one cord to your phone. You're done And now we just got presented. No, it's two cords dongle or or maybe you don't have to get the dongle Maybe you could just get a normal audio splicer from walmart for two bucks. I don't know Because maybe that's literally all it's doing is just bringing two audio feeds into the same place. I don't know but whatever the case may be It's inconvenient and for a system that is Advertises its portability. It is terrible for portability to do that. Yeah, also then the You know criticisms things, you know Just because we are a nintendo channel and a nintendo site doesn't mean we can't Criticize nintendo either. Yeah.  Yeah, you know with your complaints and it's like What does what does us be a nintendo prime have to do with complaints about nintendo? Right? No I as I've as I've said in previous videos or one specific video for sure. I don't like fanboyism I don't like console wars. I hate it.  I admit you can you can get into some fun conversation But as long as that fun conversation is constructive and oftentimes fanboy and console war Conversations and all of you guys have probably seen it. It's rarely constructive Just talking to brick walls across the board.  That's what it comes what it kind of felt like It felt like because I am chastising nintendo over something when we have no other information. Okay I can't assume Something exists. I can't assume there's more to this when there hasn't been anything else Nintendo has said from from the beginning It's through your phone their online their online services statement says it's through your phone And now we have evidence real life officially licensed evidence. It's through your phone And now through that evidence that it has no way to bring game audio in yeah, so you have to splice your audio. It's like I'm not trying to say that there isn't a better way We all know there is we all know that bluetooth is the answer. We know the switch has bluetooth We know it should be as simple as the intent of realizing. Hey, maybe it should be natively on the switch So we could just offer a bluetooth option. Mm-hmm But that's not what they're saying and I know here's where someone's going to come in and say Oh, well, you know what they could release a thing that bluetooth to your phone And then it's just one cord running through your switch They could Sure that fixes a little bit of the portability problem It doesn't fix the fact I have to look at my switch and hook things up and look at my phone Check two devices to play a game online. It doesn't fix that It doesn't fix the fact that if lobbies and everything I handle it on here Oh, I want to I'm I'm in a match and I want to quick check. Oh, do my friends get into this game Let me look at my phone as the match is going on. Yep. It doesn't fix that It doesn't fix the fact. I still have to run a cord across my living room Which is a solution that wireless controllers fixed a long time ago It kind of fixes that because it'll stream the bluetooth to your phone and then you can have your phone sitting next to you How does that fix the game audio? You still got to get the audio from the tv if it streams the blue if it streams bluetooth sound from the Right now bluetooth headsets do not work with the nintendo switch without and are you hooking up a physical bluetooth thing into it Like my switch over there when I use my live streams It has a literal device that broadcast bluetooth out in the audio jack So like you can set it up to do that. Yeah yourself by buying extra stuff. Yeah And again, mine's wireless, but I got to remember to charge it otherwise it dies and sucked But right now the default way they want you to do it is running a cord across So even if those headsets are bluetooth that only works on my phone It's got nothing to do with the switch I'd still have to run a cord from my headphone to the and that's assuming that the headphone supports you using bluetooth And a cord at the same time, which I'm assuming they can release one that does But this still I still have to run a cord across my living room Unless I personally go out and buy a non-supported non-officially licensed bluetooth device to make my switch have bluetooth Yeah It's just a generic like I spent like 30 bucks on that thing. So people got to go buy a 30 dollar add-on For that and have to plug it into their switch every time they want to use bluetooth. Yeah, that's very true Yeah, I mean that that's what we're getting at.  It's that this is convoluted Beyond belief. Yes. I just explained how they could work around it I can hook up bluetooth to that hook up bluetooth up to my phone and pray to god the headset I'm working lets me receive two different bluetooth signals in the one audio signal in my in my headset And I'm sure there's probably headsets that exist. I do it. I don't know of any I know of phones that let you hook up multiple headphones to it The only other thing I get to see would be to receive audio from your bluetooth coming out of your Switch to your phone and then somehow But the app would have to support this the app would have to support that and if the app doesn't support that natively Why would they add an add-in a thing for where you have to go and buy other company stuff that nintendo makes no money from Yeah to enable that Just throwing it out there. I'm not saying it That's one of the way either way. Let's assume best-case scenario, right the the app Allows you to receive bluetooth from sound from your switch Or your tv if you hook up a bluetooth adapter to let's say you can yeah You could take my adapter hook it up and connect your phone to that bluetooth And it will recognize and then you can run a cord from here to there or a bluetooth has has over Let's assume that's possible Why are you making me buy more stuff? Just the voice chat wasn't the whole point of you putting the app on yours. Everyone has a smartphone Yeah, not everyone has extra bluetooth receivers. I sure as heck didn't I didn't even know I needed one until the switch Didn't have bluetooth. Yeah And the only reason I was even thinking about bluetooth on the switch is because the controller doesn't have an audio jack So it's like nintendo created a problem then they compounded it by not having bluetooth enabled I'm not saying it doesn't have the capability. It's just not and maybe they have it It's not enabled or maybe it interferes with the joy cons. I have no idea but reality is The only way right now to get audio from your switch if you're using it as a home console is to plug an audio jack Into the headphone. Yep jack and run it across your floor and the only way without buying extra peripherals like at least When they At least when they didn't include the ethernet jack, you can still connect your switch to the internet, right? Like there's still a way to do it natively. Yeah It's not ideal It's ridiculous to me the doc doesn't have a native ethernet port on it Right, so how cheap they are like a couple pennies. I don't know why they couldn't just throw it on the board They didn't they still want you to buy the dongle if you want direct the internet like that But at least you can still connect wi-fi and they don't seem to restrict the wi-fi pipeline So as long as you have a good enough wi-fi network and good enough internet You're probably not going to need to hook it up wired anyways. So at least Where they didn't really give you one solution without buying an add-on they provided another one here They don't give you the bluetooth solution and they don't give you the audio jack on the thing So it's not like they gave you they didn't give you one, but at least they gave you another option It's no they didn't give you any option. Yeah Except for the fact when you use an importable mode Yes, the headphone jack on the switch is convenient when you use an importable mode But what if it had been so hard To put one of the headphone jacks say on the left on the bottom of the left joy-con probably not The ir sensors on the other one, so you're not going to put it there But there's nothing on the bottom of the left joy-con. Why not put the headphone jack there? Then it's available all the time on on the pro controller You can move it to a more convenient spot, but it's available all the time where it is on the xbox. Yeah Or even as people said finally the audio jack where it is on the switch But then on at least on the grip put an audio jack on there With a board that can communicate to the switch through the joy-con so whatever, you know Put it in if you're not going to do that. You can at least do it on the pro controller. Yeah, definitely You charge 70 bucks for it. Is it that hard to throw on a a little Audio jack and the thing is I actually think the pricing for the for the pro controller and the joy-cons It's completely justified based on the technology in it I think I understand why it's 80 bucks for a set of joy-cons and 70 dollars for a pro controller They contain a lot more tech in them than the other controllers that cost cheaper. I get it It makes sense It it sucks at a consumer level because you're constantly comparing it to things that are cheaper Right, but it's still one of those things that I know That it costs more to make these So I as someone who is knowledgeable like that understands it. I can't understand this audio solution And what I can't also understand Is that it's an audio solution people are going to be paying for oh, yeah, and I understand the payments now that we have some of the details are cheap, but it's still You're making it more difficult than things need to be you're creating problems that have already been solved Yep, that's what that's the only thing I don't understand about this is they're making a mountain out of a mole hill Voice chat has already been solved. It doesn't need an evolution You know I always said the phone app is a nice thing As an aside Like oh my buddies are playing switch. Maybe I can stream their gameplay and chat with them while I'm not even playing switch That's cool. Yeah, that's a side dish a convenient a convenient thing to add in addition to normal But if you don't even offer the bare standard for it That strips away the entire purpose of voice chat and that ends up making voice chat so inconvenient that It's going to end up being the most people don't even bother So If that's the case if that's the case one, what's the point of having it two if you're going to have it Why are you charging for something no one's going to use? Yeah Or very few people are getting other things with it though Yeah, yeah, yeah, we'll get into it in a little bit But the point is like it should be under it should be under the free box then If it's but it's not it's one of the primary things they say like they advertise specific.  This just manages it. This just manages it So you save processing power for it. I understand that yes Because then you're just using you're basically just using the switch to broadcast to the internet where this actually does all the micro Managing of it that I understand But nintendo has never stated that they've never proven that and they've never released any information That even suggests it's a possibility and that doesn't mean it's not a possibility But it means my reaction and this whole conversation is based on the facts. It's based on what we know Right, we know you can do voice chat through your phone We know that nintendo has said voice chat is required to be done through your phone We know that the first time we've seen voice chatting required an audio splicer for the headphones so That's what we know. I can't I can't react to I can't You're asking people that want me to be happy about it or not complain You're asking me to stop assuming or to assume that there's more When done things ever been proven or if we've learned nothing if you guys have followed nintendo for a long time Here's what you should always learn. Don't assume anything Yes, did people really think the weave is gonna have motion controls or the ds was gonna have two screens at the time When portables had always been one screen like I Okay game and watch I know Didn't get two screens But you know what I mean the popular the popular game boy advance No one saw the ds comment.  It's nobody hinting It's like yeah, so I'm saying like they have they have had a Consistent constant message about how voice chat is handled and now we've seen a proof of concept that shows How voice chat is handled until they show us something different or tell us anything different We're left with what they tell us and these are the facts the facts are you need an app to do voice chat You voice chat through your phone and as of right now you have had we have known known way to get audio Through any other way from your switch outside of audio splicing And again inconvenience extra steps for the consumer In terms of reggie mentioning that we're getting rid of clunky headphone or clunky You know headsets. Well, when you replace clunky headsets with clunky setups. Yeah It's not any better. It's worse. So Anyways, hold on to our second topic because I think you don't have much to say because you're basically a total agreement.  All right. I'm not even gonna apologize. I'm it's just dumb. Yep


Now that we have some idea of how to solve the one-dimensional heat equation, let's actually try to solve the one-dimensional heat equation. So we found a solution to the one-dimensional heat equation with given boundary values with this formula. But remember the worst way to learn mathematics is to memorize formulas. And so you do yourself a great favor if you've just ignored the formula. The best way to learn mathematics is to understand concepts. And so remember we arrived at the solution through two steps. First, we assume separability, and then we use the initial conditions to determine restrictions on the constants. So let's see how that plays out. So let's consider this problem. Now we won't go over every single step in the solution. Let's start about midway through where we know the form of our solution. And so it remains to find the coefficients bn. So again the best way to learn mathematics is to understand concepts. In this case, remember that our initial temperature distribution is going to be given by some function of x only. And so since u of 0x is i of x, this means that i of x is going to be the trigonometric series. But again, once we have a trigonometric series, we can find the coefficients by multiplying by a trigonometric function and then integrating over one full period. So again, assuming convergence, we can interchange the integral of the summation. And again, since we're integrating over one full period, if k is not equal to n, the integral will vanish, leaving only the sine k terms, which we can rewrite. And again, since we're integrating over one full period, the trigonometric terms will be zero. So the cosine component will vanish on integration, leaving. And after all of that settles, we get... On the left-hand side, because i of x is a sine series, it's an odd function. Since sine is an odd function itself, we have a product of odd functions, which means that i of x times sine k pi of x is going to be an even function. So the integral over a symmetric interval is going to be twice the integral from zero to the end point, which tells us what bk is. And we can evaluate this integral. Remember, we're told that the initial temperature of the rod is 20 degrees. So i of x is equal to 20 for all x. So integrating gives us... Now the actual value of bk is going to depend on the value of cosine of k pi, and that is going to depend on whether k is odd or even. If k is odd, then the cosine of an odd multiple of pi is going to be minus one. Cleaning this up a little, we find... And so bk is going to be 80 over k pi. On the other hand, if k is even, then cosine of an even multiple of pi is going to be one, and so bk is going to be zero. Consequently, our function is going to look like the following. If n is even, then bn is equal to zero and the terms vanish, and that means we could write our series as this series, where n is taken to be an odd number. And again, while this is a perfectly good way of expressing this series, to gain street cred among gangs of rogue mathematicians, you can rewrite it as follows. n being odd is the same as n equals 2k plus 1 for k equals zero to infinity, so our series can be rewritten as... And since it doesn't matter what we call the index variable, we'll call it n and get our final answer. Now, this is a lot of work, and it's easy to get lost in the details, so it's worth checking. So remember our basic assumptions. The n points are going to be held at a constant temperature of zero, but if x is equal to zero, then all of our sine terms are going to be zero, and so u of t zero is going to be zero. At x equal to l, the other n point, we want the temperature to be zero, so if x is equal to l, we're taking the sine of an odd multiple of pi, which is also going to be zero. So u of t l is going to be zero. Meanwhile, u of zero x is going to correspond to the initial temperature distribution of the rod, and if we've done our work correctly, then when t is equal to zero, we get the Fourier series for our initial temperature 20 degrees above zero. Well, I wouldn't take my word for it. We'll graph i of x equals 20 and the successive partial sums of our series. Since l is a constant, it doesn't matter what we use for it, so we'll use l equals one and consider only the interval for x between zero and one. So if t equals zero, our series becomes, now if we consider some function f of x equal to just the first term of the series, we can graph it and get, now if we include the second term of the series, including the third term, the fourth term, and it certainly seems plausible if we include all the rest of the terms of the series, we will get convergence to i of x equals 20. We also have a differential equation we're trying to solve, so we can find a partial derivative with respect to u, our partial derivative with respect to x, actually we need the second partial with respect to x, and our differential equation is the partial of u with respect to t should be alpha squared times the second partial with respect to x, and so if we compare, we see that our differential equation is also satisfied. And finally, we can also take a look at a graphical version of our solution. Although u of tx is a function of two variables, we can examine the behavior of u by considering how it looks for different values of t, and this will give us a stop action animation of the function.


for more chart and this is your marijuana money minute happy pride weekend everyone celebrate safely wow we have some big changes in the market this week canopy growth and acreage holdings have changed the terms of their deal and you may recall back in 2019 canopy growth said it was going to buy acreage holdings for 3.4 billion dollars well a lot has happened since then canopy growth is now saying they're only going to give those acreage holding shareholders 37 and a half million dollars and they've also changed the terms on the shares also ceo kevin murphy is out or a cannabis also made a big announcement this week they are laying off 25 percent of their employees that is happening immediately another 30 percent are going to be laid off over the next two quarters the company is also closing five of its growing facilities they are only going to focus on the largest and most efficient cultivation sites jushi holdings is planning on buying pennsylvania medical solutions from berio health and a deal valued at 37 and a half million dollars they're expecting that deal to close august 20th jushi is looking at this as a way to really plant their flag in the state of pennsylvania g.w. pharmaceuticals said that the uk home office has reclassified its epidiolx drug to a schedule five so no longer a controlled substance drug tilt holdings reported their quarterly revenue of 42.4 million dollars that's up 27 percent quarter over quarter and 23 percent over the same time period last year they also reported a positive net income of 50 and 925 dollars organogram released a very brief announcement this week saying that they were the subject of a lawsuit and that they were also going to change their trailer park buds brand organogram wouldn't comment on the case but it is looked at as a class action case that could seek some damages from the cannabis company and it may be with regards to pesticides that had been found on the cannabis company's product and we have some stock trading these orders that happened this week we're going to put up that chart right now and that's it for this week i'm Deborah for chart for the green market report


So we're about ready to start the last session of the afternoon. And the title of this session is Simulating Materials and Process Across the Length and Time Scales. These are the two speakers we have. Just a word of introduction, the speakers are there. This is really multi-scale modeling, but with some particular aspects. So multi-scaling modeling is a much misused term as everybody knows. But here we're looking at some time and length scale problems. And as you see on the length scales I've put along the bottom there, there is a really difficult length scale which covers an enormous range of numbers of atoms where there are several simulation and modeling methods that get used. And if we look on the time scale, a molecular dynamics covers a fairly big range of time scales these days, especially if you can use some sort of classical force fields. So we are often very demanding on time scales and we want to do thermodynamics. And one of the difficult subjects in thermodynamics is electrochemistry. So we've got people now giving talks who are experts in certain aspects of the intermediate length scales and the difficult bits of electrochemistry who are going to talk about their work. So without more ado I shall hand over to the first speaker who is Caetano Melando Rodriguez. I'd like to thank the organizers for this opportunity to be back to ICTP. The idea is that... So first of all the total energy was one of the first conferences that I have attended and it also opens the doors to be part of ICTP as a postdoc. I am very grateful for the ICTP particularly the things that I learned here, the way to pursue excellence, tolerance and also free thinking without frontiers. It's something that in my country nowadays you have to think about it again. And definitely the experience here was very good for scientific and also for personal point of view. The challenge that I am going to talk today actually started also at ICTP when I was here on the top. One of the questions I was mainly involved with to work on materials under extreme conditions, high pressure, high temperature. And one of the questions that I have addressed, I mean, puzzle me, is actually how can you use the knowledge of atomic and molecular interactions in order to use for developing countries? I mean particularly the industry and also the resources that you have there. And some of these questions actually guide me what I am going to show to you today, that is the use of a multi-scale automatic simulations, where you are going to try to use for something that is interesting for a developing country. Particularly the natural resources exploration, here there will be the oil and gas, and also the infrastructure, the cement and asphalt materials. And to do that you are going to use it multi-scale molecular simulations. And not only can it be interesting for the industry, but also can help us to understand better some phenomena like your wetability and also fluid dynamics. And this can be very challenging. Now, the point that the system that you are going to try to address is the fluid flows through nano-porous media. And this can be very interesting for several kinds of applications, like as I mentioned the oil and gas, and also other porous medias like cement, batteries, fuel cells, and so on. The challenge here is that mainly for the space scale you have to deal with a lot of different odd of magnitudes between those pores. In particularly for the nano-porous media, those are the ones that experimentally they can be, they are invisible, so it means that even nowadays you don't have the resolution to see such nano-porous, but they are extremely important because thus control the permeability of the fluid through that media. Now, the point is from the nano-point of view, actually also the physics of the fluid that is confined can be very interesting because under the confinement the surface can play a role and can change a lot of the properties of the fluid that are confined, particularly the thermodynamics, your phase diagram can change, and also with that you need it really to go to the atomic scale. It means that the continuum model does not work at that scale. Now, one of the points that you have is actually how can you address this fluid dynamics through the nano-porous where either the molecular dynamics are not able to completely take care about the time, and also the continuum model is not able to complete the physics that you have on the systems. And to do that is very challenging for the point of view of two modeling complex systems, and here we are talking about realistic conditions over scales, means there's not only real materials, but real materials under operation conditions. And to do that you have several ways in terms of methodology. The chairman have already introduced some of the difficulties that you have to cross in terms of space and time, and also you have some of the physics, the laws of physics that can deal with each kind of region in terms of scales that you have it here. Now, for the phenomena that I want to address, the fluid dynamics, you actually have to go for all these scales. If you want to try to understand how the fluid confines on a scale can be described. Now, what you have done was actually a hierarchical way where we're going to start with quantum mechanics using first principle calculations in order to derive force fields that can capture the dynamics that you see at the first principle. Then you're going to use the molecular dynamics that should determine the thermodynamic properties of those systems. And finally do the so-called Let's Boltzmann method where you're going to carry on now the fluid dynamics in the right scale of space and also time. Now, this can be very challenging in the sense of you have to build some bridges between those methods, and this is more or less what I'm going to tell you today with one example that is how you're going to displace oil or gas through a power media that is the rock. Now, for the first step, you actually derive the assumption that I learned here in Trieste. Derive potentials based on a binomial dynamics and you have to do the assumption of the DFT in this case with van der Waals is correct enough as well you create an effective potential that is fitted from DFT. So in this case, I forget about the electron structure, sorry about the total energy conference, however, there are ways that you're going to carry this information where in the sense that the forces that are going to describe are the forces that have been derived by Abinish methods. The second step is also very important because you need to somehow deal with large scale. In this way, my molecular dynamics, now it can be the Abinish or classical, are going to be replaced by a distribution function where I have two main points. One is the spring part and also the collision parts. It also can include some of the forces that is involved on this phenomena, particularly the wetability or the interface problems. This is something that I'm going to discuss to you in a few slides from now. Well, one of the points is how to control the interfaces and the flow at an un-scale. To do that, there are two main ways. One is to reduce the interfacing, the other one is to reduce the viscosity. In the particular case of the oil, this is the way that it is done. There are several ways to do that. One is changing the chemical environment, means that you're going to control the wetability. The other one is either to control the confinement, so if you want to have a pressure-driving flow through your system, and finally to control the electrostatic environment. It means that there's an electrokinetic driving flow that you have in the system. What I'm going to try to show to you is that you are able, by using multi-scale molecular simulations, to know or predict how much oil you can displace over these scales. Now, just to tell you how the challenge is, so if you think in terms of a macroscopic scale, so here's a meters or kilometers, but my real system is that in a micrometer scale, the interface between the rock, the oil and the brine, this is a multi-component, multi-phasic, and under realistic conditions, means high temperature, high pressure. And what I want to try to do is to control the flow using nanoparticles that control the interface between the brine and the oil. To understand how is the effect in the flow, you have applied either to try to understand the geometry of the pores, means that you want to try to see how the shape and the size and the distribution of the pores can change, as well as the chemistry behind the wetability change. Means you're going to inject a fluid that does not have nanoparticles or can have a hydroxylated nanoparticle, hydrophilic nanoparticle, hydrophobic one or hydrophilic. So you're going to try to see if a given solution that can be displace injecting the system can allow this fluid to be displace. Now, the interesting point is to do that, you have to really start it from the first principle calculations, that you need to have a very good description about the interaction of the molecules with the rock surfaces. And this is some of the examples that I actually chose, because those are examples that I have shown in the previous Total Energy Conference. One is related to the asphaltenes, the scousite, also the solvent ion exchanging effects that I have in the system. The connective studies on mineral surface and finally the nano aggregation of asphaltenes and resins. So if you know how is this process, particularly the energy involved here, the idea that you can derive force fields that can capture the dynamics that you see at the first principle level. Now, with that, you can do something more interesting from the molecular dynamics point of view. This is an example of a table with the composition of crude oil that has been given for us for a company. You can build an oil model and also the Brian model that you can see in reservoirs. So in this way, you are able to obtain the interface properties that you have in this system and this oil model can be as complex as you want it. This is very interesting because now we are talking about the multi-component systems under really reservoir conditions, at high temperature and you are able to prove interface properties that you have there. Just to tell you, to give you to your motivation, in order to obtain one single point of the interface tension in the resource center at Petrobras, they have to spend three months in terms of measurement because you have to wait for the oil to be in equilibrium under high temperature or high pressure and this molecular dynamic can be very helpful in order to quantify those problems. Now, you also have a play to design nanoparticles in order to control this waterability and this also has been done using first principle interactions and in the end what you want is to be able to calculate by molecular dynamics using first principle forces-based simulations where you can control or quantify the interface properties between the brine, the oil, the rock and also the nanoparticles. As an example that I have chosen to show to you, this is a surface driving flow where you first try to understand how the functional groups of the nanoparticles can interact with the rock surface and this is done at a DFT level and this is mainly the force with respect to the distance so how these functional groups interact with that surface and then can be translated in a potential inter-atomic model where now you can describe the whole system, the brine, the oil, the nanoparticles and also the rocks. So up to now you can do a fully atomized calculation and even hybrid models which allow us to go for very large nanoparticles. Well what you can learn from the molecular dynamics so this is a snapshot of my movie about the molecular dynamics but the interest point here is to be able to know what is going on in the interface means you are able with the molecular dynamics to feel that you have close to the interface and not only that you are also able to calculate the interface the interface station the free energy variation with the area here and in this particular case we are calculating using variations of the pressure well with that you have explored for different kinds of rocks realistic models of oil and also under the conditions of reservoir high temperature and high pressure the interface station with respect to the salinity for different kinds of nanoparticles the hydroxylated hydrophilic and hydrophobic ones also the viscosity and the contact angle that controls the wetability phenomenon in this system this is very interesting because you can carry on accurately the first principle of forces that you have derived in a proper that is very much from the interest of the industry that is the interface station however the point is what you can do next because with that you are not able to actually simulate the fluid flow in the sense of the typical size that you can have it in some post media and to do that you are going to be beyond molecular dynamics reminded that at molecular dynamics level I have derived potential that have been derived by first principles so we are moving for the scale of nanometers nanoseconds up to micrometer millimeter to microseconds in milliseconds the way that you have done is basically based on the molecular dynamics properties that you have it the viscosity, the density the interface station, the contact angle you have some parameters that have been derived for the electrical method and now you can match the molecular dynamics properties in a fluid that can be simulated at this scale that is now micrometer or millimeter so in this match you have to be worried about the relaxation time that has to do with the viscosity and also the fluid fluid and fluid mineral interactions that you can obtain directly for the interface station well this is very interesting so now what you can do is basically what I am going to show to you is a way where you are going to inject a solution that has nanoparticles or not and see how much the oil is going to displace for a given rock geometry and we started with a microphotography of the rock you build up a computational rock model and in this way you are going to try to see if I inject the solution how much oil that is trapped here can be displaced in the example I am going to show again in this case this is a Let's Boltzmann calculation that has been derived where you have embedded the fluid that you have here you have the properties that has been obtained by molecular dynamics where the force fields have been derived by force principles so this is the injection in green you see the oil that has been displaced and this is very interesting because now you can understand the fluid flow based on information that comes from the very beginning for the first peaceful point of view so typically this kind of simulation has been done in a qualitative way in the sense of they try to change the parameters in order to fit what has been seen experimentally in the end you can obtain how much oil can be displaced with respect to the time and the particles or different kind of chemical additives that you can add on the system in this way you can choose or the industry can choose the one that the best can displace your system now not only this is interesting from the point of view to optimize what chemical additives you can add in this particular system but also you are now able to see how the geometry of the system has our industry so what we have done is to create a series of geometries where you can change the shape the size and randomly distribute those particles media with the same imporosity this is something very important because the samples that you have in the rocks each sample is different for each other in this way you can control inject your fluid and see how much of oil can be displaced and you also are doing some experimental measurements to compare what you see from the last Boltzmann and also with the experimental point of view I just point out that the first time that I saw a 3D printer was here at ICTP and after that visit I come to Brazil and I want one of that and you try to do the last I mean the porous media however the resolution here is not enough so you have to really find resolution to see the geometry of the porous with respect to the system but this is something very interesting because now you can learn how the permeability change with respect to the geometry and also how is the fluid flow for those systems and not only that then you have something that I learned here the channel entropy so you can create with different entropy in the end you can have a correlation between the hydrodynamics and the porosity and this was very interesting because you can directly plug this information in a reservoir simulator Reservoir simulator means that you are dealing with many cells that are sort of meters or kilometers so in this way you can see how much oil can be displaced with the time in this tell us how is the effect of hydrodynamics or the order disorder effect that you have in this system now very much very interesting so a few years ago we started to do this project and collect a lot of information and one of them that also it was very interesting to learn here that this is called machine learning and you have been able to create a database on the interface station and the question was if you will be able to obtain a model can we describe our interface station based on molecular dynamics calculation so in the end what we have done is mainly to see how the salinity, the brine composition the oil density and the oil composition can can actually tell us something about the interface station of this system now with that we mainly have explored different models of oil completely aromatic one or alkane is also mixing of the gas gasoline that you have used in the complex oil that petrobras give to us so in this way you are able to create a database on the interface station in the end you have obtained a model that depends on the composition of the oil, the salinity and also the concentrations of the salt, the ions in the brine composition so this is very much interesting because in this way you can learn a little bit about how be the facts of each one of this features and you end up if you compare with some experimental data and the other data that is available in the literature for those models you have a aero of 2% so what is very nice is the interface station point of view again experimentally you have to wait for 3 months to get one single data here and with that you don't spend so much computer time or experimental time so you can really do screen over possibilities that you have it here now what you learn here is that you can decrease the interface station because of the aromatic fraction that is most important the other one is the low salinity the diavalent cations and the sulfates are the one that if you want to change your brine because they have to inject the brine in order to displace the oil so those are the ones that you have to look for and here more or less give us a recipe how actually would be a good composition of the brine that can displace the oil now this is also interesting however to come back to the physics to try to understand how these effects what is going on from the physical point of view so what is how the interface stations change due to the composition of the oil and also to do the composition of the brine for that you have two main effects one is the you can see this peak here you have accumulation of aromatic molecules the hydrocarbons near the interface and mainly the interface tension comes from that and the second one is the change the hydrogen bond network due to the fact of the ions is going to change that and this is something that you try to look at for the different models of the ions and also increases salinity how it will affect in terms of the interface tension so basically what you learn is that the ions can change they lead to a water coordination reduction and this is a really effect that can change the miscibility of those systems and make it easier to displace now with that you want to learn a little bit more about the hydrogen bond network because in a way that I wanted to describe how is the this effect and what you have done is actually now see another interface that is the rock with the water and Brian with molecular dynamics you are able to see how the water actually you have accumulation structuring of water near the interface and more interestingly you can do something that is a Google view of the interfacial phenomena means that I going to transform my water coordination on my water network in something that is a graph theory so here the vertex is the oxygen atoms and the edge are the hydrogen bond network so with that you are then able to map how is the configurations of the water molecule near the interface far from it and how is the effect of the ions changing the hydrogen bond network of the system this is pretty much can give us a very nice insight about what is going on on the interface but with the different eyes not only looking for the water molecule itself but now from the point of view of the hydrogen bond network the point here is that if you want to visualize what happens in terms of the interface when you have the water in the oil or the water in the rock so to do that you are doing two other things that is a new way to see and to be the first one I was falling off last year I have been in a conference in PISA that to use the virtual reality to visualize our systems this is really very much interesting particularly for molecular dynamics because it's very cheap you can visualize now change your ions and see on the fly what is going on on the interface I really recommend you to try nowadays you have software that can do that and also very much interesting to use this data to transform this data in sound because if you want to try to visualize such situation for each more snapshot that is 300,000 atoms this is very difficult so what you have done is to map our hydrogen bond network in sound in the end you can listen what is going on if you have a book water or if you have water confined at one nanometer so this is going to show to you now so this is the group that happens in the music part now what you are going to do is sound is very interesting property because your brain can follow a given channel a given instrument musical instrument separately so if you try to follow the violin for instance the orchestra you follow it so if you try to follow the piano and so on so what are going to invite to you to close your eyes because as much is enough to listen and we are going to listen to two cases one is the book model for the book water and the second one will be at one nanometer so let us see the book of the water if this sounds this is how sound the water molecules the formations of the water molecules actually or the book phase now you are going to listen the same thing that is now when you are confined at one nanometer so at one nanometer you can see that this is much best and you start to see other configuration you can listen other configurations actually of course this may not be a hit parade however you can tell us a lot about the dynamics of the water particularly for hydrogen bonding network point of view and really tell us how this works so with that would you like to close I mean this is a hierarchical multi-scale approach going from first piece for molecular dynamics that Boltzmann finally machine learning and also this could be sorry for that not so noble application that the oil and gas but that is something that for Brazil for instance is very much important however the same tools can be used for batteries, fuel cells and CO2 sequestration and capture and also provide to you new ways to see and to be using either vitro reality and sonification so with this would you like to thank my team in Brazil and Emilia Tacho where is he so he telling me if I would be able to do jazz and I put the jazz part here but sorry it sounds terrible so with that I finish my talk thank you very much