So I need to come up with something else to talk about. I don't like to be obvious when I'm manipulating people. Oh, and welcome to the BCV channel. I am your host, Pastor Seco Woods. Please do the following. Please like, subscribe, share. Hit the notification bell at the bottom of the video that way whenever I go live or post any content, you'd be one of the first to view it. Also, if you'd like to support this ministry financially first and foremost, thank you so much for your support. Thank you, those of you who have been consistently and faithfully supporting this ministry, Love, Life and Marriage with the Woods as well, with your faithful giving and your tangible expressions of love. Thank you so much for that. We really do appreciate it. But also you can support the ministry again as well by clicking the donation links below at the bottom of the video. We use PayPal, not PayPal. We use Cash App, Venmo and Zail. Those are the three options that we use. 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Moderators, thank you for holding it down in the chat. Facebook family, thank you so much as well. Sister Loretta, I see you. You good to go, good to go. Daryl, no, you're not banned. For now, you should be good all right for right now as long as you behave yourself. We should be all right. Send me a profile of yourself so we can set this up on tomorrow night. It'll be you and another guest that I'll be having on at the same time discussing Brother Corey Minor. So send me a profile pic of yourself and we'll get this situated and set up for tomorrow night at 7 p.m. Central Standard Time. All right, so anyway, ladies and gentlemen, thank you so much for joining. Hit that like button, subscribe button, share button, y'all know how we do it. Tag a friend, of course already the enemies are tagged. It's all good. Y'all know how we move and how we get down. But I want to cover a few things. I wanna make sure that we always have our foundational texts as we are addressing and dealing with subjects of this nature. I try to make sure that we have a biblical basis for why I do what I do. And when I address particular topics and issues, I wanna have a biblical foundation so that way people can be on the same page and we're not just meandering and walking all over the place and not knowing what the subject is and what texts are applying to these issues. And so of course you saw the thumbnail. If you don't know this individual, you will know him. If you saw the initial clips, that is Tim Hurd. He was a guest on my broadcast two years ago. Matter of fact, March the 6th of 2021, he appeared on this channel, the BCV channel, and we had a dialogue slash debate. And in that discussion slash dialogue slash debate, there were some things said, there was some misunderstanding on my part that I publicly repented for. And I'm going to explain that to you, explain and share that with you later in the live today. However, Tim Hurd being who he is and being who he's associated with, with protestia and formerly a poor pen and pen and David Morrill who I call No Morrill and you'll see why as well later in this live. These individuals, these people are notorious for twisting and spinning and misapplying and misrepresenting people and they think that they are doing journalism. In fact, Phil Johnson has gone on record and called it yellow journalism. These same individuals who they used to run with, Chris Rosebro, Phil Johnson, Justin Peters, have pretty much thrown these people up under the bus. You know, when JD Hall, JD Fall, the drug addict, the Xanax abuser, wife beater, child abuser who no longer is a pastor because he does not know how to govern himself in his own household, therefore he is no longer as a pastor at the church he was there. And of course, these people at protestia, it's all documented ladies and gentlemen, it's all documented. David No Morrill and the rest of them try to cape and cover for these people. And this is why these kind of stuff needs to be exposed.  And so character, they don't have it. Integrity is not existent. Truth, you do better have a better time finding Waldo than finding these people being known for the truth. And so today, at this special broadcast, at this special time, I wanted to have this live done earlier because of other family responsibilities that I want to give my attention to. I wanted to have this live done two hours before my regular start and show time. So let's jump into some texts and we'll get this party started, all right? Proverbs chapter six, verse 16. Through 19, the Bible reads, there are six things which the Lord hates. Yes, seven, which are an abomination to him. Hearty eyes, or King James says a proud look, a lying tongue and hands that shed innocent blood. Verse 18, a heart that devises wicked plans. You're gonna see that in this live in the clips that are gonna be played today. A heart that devises wicked plans. That's Tim, that's Tim Hurd. Feet that run rapidly to evil. That's Tim Hurd.  That's Tim Hurd and David Nomorell. And one who spreads strife or souls discord among brethren. That's Tim Hurd. That's David Nomorell. That's the mob and anyone else that's associated with these people. These individuals, if you watch how they move and the trouble that they cause, you would want to question whether or not these people are saved. And you would have every right to question that by how they attack people, but yet they wanna claim that they've been under attack. They're the ones that already attack us. We're just the ones that clap back. So there ain't no punks over here.  That's not happening, not on this channel. Let's look at some other texts. Proverbs chapter 12. Well, let's go back to verse four, chapter four. Let's go to chapter four first. Verse 25 through 27.  Watch the path of your feet and all your ways will be established. Do not turn to the right nor to the left. Turn your foot from evil. Don't think protestia and these people know anything about turning from evil. They're known to stir up confusion and evil. Proverbs 12, 22. Lying lips are an abomination to the Lord.    Yeah, I know. Love the sin, hate the sin, it ain't what the Bible says.  So take a wild guess who God hates, liars. Liars. He also has an issue with people who are not honest and people who lack integrity and people who grift.  Well, we're gonna find out who's the grifter in this live tonight. Second Corinthians chapter four verse one and two. Therefore, since we have this ministry, Paul writes, as we receive mercy, we do not lose heart, but we have renounced the things hidden because of shame, not walking in craftiness or adulterating the word of God, but by the manifestation of truth, commending ourselves to every man's conscience in the sight of God. Yeah, we don't pimp the word of God. We don't adulterate. We're not unfaithful to the message for profit. Yeah, let that sink in. Hebrews chapter 13, let's go to H-E-B, 13. Some of y'all need to get that if you're from here. Verse 18, it says, pray for us, the writer says. For we are sure that we have a good conscience. Notice, desiring to conduct ourselves honorably in all things. You think that's protested? You think that's David Nomorrow? You think that's Tim Herb, Bible thumping, wingnut? You think that's the mob? You think they can say that? That they conduct themselves honorably in all things? I think not. Just look at their pattern of behavior. Look at the people that they slanted, Julie Royce, Han Cho, minimize the abuses of individuals who have survived, Eileen Gray and others. Just look at their work.  That's what they would rather do. That's what they would rather do. But one more text, can't forget about Peter. His second letter, chapter two, verses one through three. He says, but false prophets also arose among the people, just as there will be false teachers among you, who will secretly introduce destructive heresies. You know what a destructive heresy is, telling people they need to stay for their abuser, saying that's the Lord's will for them to be beaten, to suffer well. I'm not making it up, it's all documented. It's all documented. Yeah, to suffer well, to tell a wife who's being beaten by her quote unquote husband who's supposed to shepherd her, who's supposed to be her protector. You're telling her that she needs to suffer well. That's destructive heresies. Yeah, I know. You think word of faith doctrine is just destructive heresies. No, we got some destructive heresies within the reform camp as well. Oh yeah, yeah. Who will secretly introduce destructive heresies.  Can I say that? Be careful of the counsel, the quote unquote biblical Christian counsel that you get from these churches today. I hope I'm talking, I know I'm talking to somebody. I know somebody I'm talking to. Yeah, yeah, yeah, be careful. In the words of the theologian Elma Fudd, be very, very careful of the so-called biblical Christian counsel that you receive from some of these so-called churches. Cause it could be one of the ones that are secretly introducing destructive heresies. Even deny the master who bought them bringing swift destruction upon themselves. Verse two, many will follow their sensuality. Yeah, we call them capers, fanboys, micarothites. Many will follow their sensuality and because of them the way of the truth will be maligned.  Their judgment from long ago is not idle and the destruction is not sleep. In other words, God sees it. And God takes impeccable notes. Oh yeah, we serve a God who never sleeps no slumbers. Trust me, they may think that they're getting by but people like John MacArthur and them, they won't get away. Yeah, they may get by here but here is not all there is. There is another life after this one expires. Count on that. Count on that. So, the following clips I'm gonna play are clips from Pastor Jeff Durbin, from Apologia Church. He too was the object and victim for five years of abuse. These are his words, not mine. You'll hear it in the video.  Incessant slander, incessant harassment. By who? By the world? By Big Tech? By the mainstream media? Uh-uh. By so-called brethren. Well, who's the so-called brethren you're talking about, Seco? Well, don't take my word for it. Let Jeff tell you.  It is very hard to show someone mercy when they are lying about you consistently and to essentially not reveal everything publicly. And so we showed mercy and grace for a long time. He contacted us. We, of course, recorded it as a witness and this is what he committed to. This is 11 minutes and 21 seconds. So yeah, thank you. You know what would help me is open lines. Open lines? Like if I catch wind of something that I disagree with, I think I'd like to talk to somebody. So what do you have there? You have a confession of sin, purposeful misrepresentation, that means lying, motivated by jealousy and pride. He says that throughout there. You can hear it for yourself. Later in the conversation after we grant the forgiveness, he then says, in the future, it would help me if I catch wind of something, if I had open lines of communication. And here's what was said to him.  Tim, I'll just be really honest in that. We just don't have time for open lines. We're moving into a position where Jeff is really busy and has to guard his pastoral time. So he has an assistant now that people in the church have to make appointments with. And so it'd be unfair to the members of our church if we gave you an open line and it's nothing personal against you. It's just that we really have to guard Jeff's time as a pastor now with everything we're doing. So if you mean though, if you mean, however, like you'd like to be able to have a call for a question or something like that, I can give you a route to do that. So you can definitely do that. Like, if you have a question about something half. If you bring something to our attention, it's like, hey, what do you think of what Jeff's saying this? You know, he's saying this. Instead of going on a podcast and, you know, half understanding and trying to answer somebody's question, it would be better for me to get clarification.  Let me give Jeff his flowers right now. You know, shout out to Jeff and to his people at Apollo Gear. You're better than me, bro. Five years? Nah, I may have been giving them five days. I mean, I was gracious about giving them up. But almost six months, give or take? I don't know. I lose count. But yeah, five years? Yeah, yeah, yeah. You got the patience of Joe Banner's grandmama. Mm-hmm. But that client would have had that much time. He would definitely have got to deal with it. But this is why this kind of stuff is important because it shows you the patience and the willingness for people to try to work with those who are really irreconcilable. You know, that's one of the signs of the last days. Y'all do know that, right? In 2nd Timothy 3, people are gonna be irreconcilable. They're not like my brother, my brother puny says, they're not gonna want to reason. They're unwilling to reason. They're unwilling to be entreated. They're unwilling to have a rational conversation and discussion. Now what they'd rather do, they'd rather try to tear your name down because they'd rather raise up their own idols and protect their idols like John MacArthur and others. So they're unreasonable. Peter calls them, identifying false teachers, unreasoning animals. Unreasoning animals. I mean, how can an image bearer act like an unreasoning animal when they're not walking in the spirit? You know, it's one thing if an unbeliever is doing it because they have no filter. They have nothing to govern them. But you have people who profess and claim to be Christians who act just like unbelievers and it's more likely, more than likely, it probably are. You know, life has a way of bringing the real you out. And what we're seeing is a lot of the real use before us. And this is not Tim Hurd's first time. This is not Tim Hurd's first rodeo and being a slanderer and being an accuser of the brethren. He has a record of slander and why does he do it? Hmm, let Jeff tell you. What's the commitment? Instead of going online and doing a podcast with only half information, what are you gonna do, Tim? You're gonna contact me for clarification. So we have confession of sin and then a commitment in the future, not to do that anymore. I'm gonna contact you privately. Now, you did it a year ago with Ben Shapiro and everything was fine. You didn't do it this year when you started up this pattern of sin again. You committed here to do so and you got full permission for it. Yeah, and that's, I think that's the order it should be done. And I don't mean to stick a finger in a wound but just so you can kind of, to say that I agree with you in the past when some stuff happened and we did get a chance to talk, I think that's one of the things I said to you is you could have just called me and asked me before you went on and talked about it, which I think that would be helpful. So there's the commitment and there's my granting, Tim, that access. And I just want everyone to hear in that what Marcus was referring to there is because of our ministry and all the ways and all the areas we're serving in, there's a lot of people that contact us on a daily basis, messages, emails, phone calls, those sorts of things. And we're committed to our church body. We're pastors of Apology of Church.  As a matter of fact, today when we're done with this we have an entire day booked with face to face with our members all day to minister to them, to love them, to encourage them, to support them. That's what we do all day. And so Tim asking for access, Marcus is like, well, wait, our church body takes precedence. Like they have to have access to Jeff and they have to have that. And so like we just can't give you direct access. And so, but it was still granted to Tim, still graciously granted to him even after all of the sin. Tim attempted over the last week when of course it's made known to him through private conversation that you're back at it again. He attempted to minimize what he's been up to over the last couple of months by saying things like I was just offering a very gracious critique. I never said I wasn't critique Jeff again. By the way, brothers and sisters, please hear me on this. Tim's allowed to critique me. Anybody's allowed to critique me. My teaching is public. You're allowed to critique no problem. Misrepresentation is the problem. And misrepresentation, purposeful misrepresentation and jealousy is what Tim was guilty of before. He confesses to it and he said that he wouldn't do it again and he would make sure that he had communication for me privately before he went and did podcasts on something. That's Tim's sin. He broke his promise, years of abuse, almost five. And now we're at the point we are now where there's public exposure of his sin. That's what this ultimately is. He tried to minimize it, saying I was very gracious in my critique. I was just saying like pre-sub, like we need to focus more on like making sure that gospel is in there succinctly. So I want you to know over this last summer Tim started publishing videos and closer to us too. He started publishing videos about me with my picture, my face saying let's play what would you rather with Jeff Durbin? Videos like Jeff Durbin attempts to preach the gospel. Videos like I think I was wrong about Jeff Durbin. There's just videos and of course there was a Patreon phone call that I was sent where he's also talking about me in that phone call. No conversation was made between Tim and I. He never contacted me to say, hey Jeff can I get clarification? Like can I make sure I understand this? Like he said he would do here in the confession he didn't do that. He just started going on and repeating the same pattern of sin that he had years ago that he had committed against us for years. Now notice what this man just said. Patterns of sin, jealousy. He admits to being jealous of another man's ministry thereby ergo he strives to tear down another man's ministry. What kind of person does that? Now interestingly also notice that Jeff said he doesn't have a problem with people publicly critiquing his stuff because it's public. And have I not been saying that as well too? If you say something publicly it's open to critique. But what's not open is you or I misrepresenting intentionally misrepresenting someone for the sake of clicks and follows and subs. And then when you're called on it you wanna play victim. You wanna refuse to be held accountable even when people are asking for those that are over you for them to contact them for you to stop doing what you're doing. And this is how we know that the wicked flee when no one pursues because when you're not in sin you have no problem submitting to biblical authority. You have no problem being a person of integrity. And yes, we will mess up. Yes, we will sin. We will drop the ball. But intentionally slamming the ball and dropping it are two different things. Stepping on my foot and stomping on it are two different things. One is accidental which requires an apology. Oh, I'm sorry. I didn't mean to do that. Please forgive, I'm sorry. You understand that, right? The latter which is intentional not only requires an apology but also requires repentance and confession. And also a means to make right the intentional injury that you caused. You think these people do that? Not really, but let's keep listening. This particular video I'm about to play for you right now. And if you guys have your audio turned down make sure you turn it up for this one just because I think he talks kind of low on it. This is from August the second of this year. The title of the video is I think I was wrong about Jeff Durbin. I think I was wrong about Jeff Durbin. And this is at about the 10 minute mark. Here is what Tim said on August 2nd, 2019. You can see it. If you haven't heard it already. So to be gracious after exposing his failure on that particular podcast, see because I know that Jeff Durbin knows the gospel and I know that he can preach it clearly. So I went looking for a short clip, a short clip of him presenting the gospel clearly so that I could put it at the end of the podcast. Okay, Jeff, this is what you should have done. This is what you should have done right here. I couldn't find one. We have almost 1200 videos up, over 10 years of ministry, countless examples of on the street evangelism, gospel preaching, street preaching, speaking around the world, preaching the gospel, messages. Let me just say this, brothers and sisters, please hear me on this as a pastor with a man who has sinned against us for a five year history. This accusation is not a small accusation. It cuts to the heart of who we are as a minister. When you allege that a minister of the gospel, you can't find in 1200 videos, you couldn't find it. Me succinctly preaching the gospel, like you just, you can't find it. I tried, I couldn't find it. That is not a low allegation. That is the heart of everything. Let me just say this. If I can't succinctly preach the gospel as a minister, I'm disqualified to be a minister. This is no small allegation, Tim. It's the same pattern of behavior and I want to add very, very importantly here is that people saw this and you can read the comments. People are, I'm going to read them for you in a second here so you can see it's not just Jeff's interpretation of, hey, Tim, what you're doing is strange here. But I want to say this, 1200 videos, Tim, if you type in Jeff Durbin in gospel in the search bar on YouTube, they start coming up. They all start coming up. It won't take you very long with 1200 videos to find it and at the end of the show, brothers and sisters, at the very end in culmination, we're going to let you see for yourself of just a day of Isaac going through some videos. He just pulled together things and it's by no means exhaustive to suggest that you look through our videos and you could not find a video or a clip of me succinctly preaching the gospel is mischaracterizing me and our ministry. Tim, you're lying.    I mean, let that sink in, ladies and gentlemen. Receipts don't lie, but people do, right?  Why isn't he marked and avoided? Why isn't the mob marking and avoiding Tim Hurd? David Morrill, aka No Morrill. Why aren't these people being marked and avoided? I think we know why, right? Yeah, they do travel in packs, don't they? So the next video is Jeff Durbin Attempts to Preach the Gospel. Note the terminology, Jeff Durbin Attempts to Preach the Gospel. First and foremost, I can't find a clip of him doing it succinctly. Next is, he attempts to preach the gospel. So in this, he's trying to respond to people who essentially are criticizing. I'm saying, hey, this isn't fair, you know, you're not being right. Let me read to you some of the comments here in Under Jeff Durbin Attempts to Preach the Gospel. Not that these are the full standard, but in terms of how are people receiving this from Tim? This person says here, I'm looking for videos that are brief, short, and to the point. And when did Jeff say that's what his goal was for these videos? Somebody says, excellent points. If you look at Hurd's videos, he has viewer number spikes, whenever he includes Durbin or someone else a little more well known. Here we go, next one. You ask people to send in clips of him preaching the gospel and they do. And you still find a way to discredit it. Laugh out loud, this video is comical. And somebody says, absolutely, nothing has been good enough. Somebody says, I've lost all respect for you, Tim. You started quite well and now you're just a bitter Christian. So here's the point.  Just to make a point here, it isn't just Jeff Durbin seeing what you're doing. Other people are saying, Tim, what are you doing here? This isn't fair, this isn't right. What are you saying? And the point is, is in this very video, people sent him videos, like just hear some random videos. And what he attempts to do is he goes through them, is lie about what's in the video. And he tries to move the goal post further and further, further down. As people send him videos, like here's a video of Jeff preaching the gospel succinctly, he continues to move the goal post down the line because Tim won't just be confronted over his misrepresentation. That's our experience with him. So this particular video is Jeff Durbin attempts to preach the gospel. And at 12 minutes, I want you to hear what he says here. This is very important. He plays a video of someone sent to him of me preaching the gospel on the beach. Very important. Remember he told you he couldn't even find a video online of me succinctly preaching the gospel. People start sending him videos, like Tim, like what are you doing?  Like what are you up to? So he says here at 12 minutes, listen to one video of me preaching the gospel on the beach, which is 20 minutes long, but you have to start at the 10 minute mark. This was the suggestion from the people who sent it in was two people suggested this video. The first 10 minutes is pretty much rambling and not the gospel. Okay, so he has the video.  Did you think people were not committed enough to the truth that they wouldn't actually go and examine the video? It is available right now for everyone to see for themselves. And I encourage you guys to go do it. It's called Jeff preaching the gospel on the beach. Tim, it's available for everybody to listen to. And you said the first 10 minutes is rambling and not the gospel, rambling and not the gospel. Well, brothers and sisters, I'm gonna play this for you. A couple parts, it's 10 minutes. I'm not doing the 10 minutes. I'll just do a couple parts here. This is the two minute mark. See, again, I want you to hear this kind of stuff is what these people are known for. And again, this man said he had been dealing with this for five years. They did not say a word. They tried to deal with this man privately. Again, he's better than me.  No, I'm gonna defend myself. I'm gonna defend my name and I'm gonna defend what God has given to me.  And this is not a dig against Jeff at all. What I'm saying is that it shows you how people respond to the Tim Hurds and the protestius and the David Morales of the world. Some people try to exercise long terms of patience and trying to reach out to these people and try to reason with these people to no avail. JD Hall, all of them. And years ago, I used to be associated with them until I started to see how they were tripping. I said, I gotta get out of that. And once you start doing that, you become their enemy. And this is why for me, if you're not equipped to deal with bullies, if you're not equipped to deal with these type of people, they're gonna run you crazy. They'll even run you to self-deletion. JD Hall did. To Braxton Canner. He had a little teenage boy. Yeah, he would always be remembered for that. That reproach would never be wiped away because he'd never changed and neither have they. This is not about who your favorite person is. This is about standards that God tells us to uphold as Christians, God's standards. Tim is lying again. For us as a church, it's been, like I said, almost five years of abuse. We've tried private recourse. We've tried the local church. He utterly refused. Then, years ago and now. He committed to not doing this anymore and to contact him in the future if he had questions. He didn't do that. When I was made aware of all the stuff that was happening, I tried to give the information to somebody on his board that he says he would want me to give it to. The person was dismissive of it. And now actually is trying to use that against us to say somehow that we're just sharing this, like flowers out of a hat with people sort of a thing. No, we shared it first, trying to get help from somebody that's in his ministry with him. And they were just saying, no, it's best of mine, my own business. Again, I just want you out of here to clips. I'll continue on. I just want to say this whole thing is about integrity, right? Yes.  Your videos that lack, greatly lack integrity and honesty have now caused people to question our integrity. Which again, goes back to, that's the very definition of some in discord among brothers. But I have an honest question for you, brother. What are you trying to do? What are you trying to accomplish? Like what is the point of doing these videos? How is this benefiting the body of Christ? How is this bringing honor and glory to our savior? Wouldn't your time be much better served by doing what Jeff is doing, by being out in the street and preaching the gospel to somebody, to people on the beach? So I ask that honestly, graciously and in love, what are you trying to accomplish? Whose glory are you seeking in doing videos like this? This done. Should I stumble again? You come to me. Hey, guess what? Just thought of this. They never came to me in the first place. I came to them. That's not funny. My sin wasn't funny. I had sinned against them. I was sinning against them. They didn't confront me on my sin. I came to them. I don't think Durban has ever come to me. Well, maybe he has. So, well, maybe, yeah. So Tim, I wanna say to you as a brother, you're lying. You're lying, can I say, through your teeth and Tim, you know it. You know it. It just does something. It should do something to us when we hear people like Tim heard. They'll go on record and go on camera to sound as though that they are contrite, that they are repentant and then turn right around and flip it to make it seem like you're the individual, you're the one who's wrong and he was the one that tried to reach out to you to try to reconcile and so forth and so on and nothing, and I do mean absolutely nothing can be further from the truth. And see, I wanna add another point because you heard them say that they recorded this man's conversation.  Jesus said we're to be wise as serpents but innocent as doves. We should be innocent when it comes to evil but we're to be wise. We should have some snaps about ourselves when we're dealing with people like this and thank God they recorded his conversation because look what happened. He turned right around and started attacking and falsely accused them again and they had to pull them. They had to pull them. So maybe I better start waking up and realizing the days and times as you're in. Brothers and sisters as we get on here we're gonna talk about a phone call that was recorded where Tim called to confess his sin to us and he committed to do something in the future so that he would change his ways. He didn't do that. He broke his promise and his confession. He started the same stuff all over again fairly recently back this year a couple months ago but Tim said here you all heard him say that we've never come to him. We've never confronted him. Before we get started today in the major portions I want you all to take a look at this. Go ahead and pull the screen up Carmen so you all can see. Can you all look at the date on this? This is back February 21st of 2015, 417 p.m. February 21st 2015, Tim was involved in public false witness. He confesses to this. By the way everything I'm telling you now he doesn't deny. He lied about us. He says he purposefully misrepresented us. He was motivated by sin and by jealousy and by pride. He said last night we've never contacted him. I want you to see February 21st 2015. I'd like to speak with a man or men who have authority in your life brother. That's me to Tim privately. Please give me a number to contact them. Thank you. That was 2015. My message to him. He says back, I'd be happy to but shouldn't you speak with me first? I'm not sure you're following the proper biblical steps here assuming you're bringing my pastor into the conversation because we do not agree doctrinally. Here's what I said in response to that. You have refused correction about your misrepresentation of me publicly. This is leading to others publicly maligning me. Several witnesses have to have to my show called you out on the misrepresentation and you've still refused to either remove it or clarify in the original post. Tim has lied about us, slandered us, misrepresented us. He admits to that publicly through comments, posts and through podcasts and videos. So it was about a two and a half year at least long process of this sin. What we're referring to in this moment is I was already on one of the threads he was lying about us on. I already asked for the name of his pastor on the thread and was refuting what he said on the thread. So then I went to him privately because I already did confront him I already did confront him as a brother.  This is leading to others publicly maligning me. Several witnesses, people are already in this. Next, number two. I think this will greatly benefit the conversation. Okay, explain how did I misrepresent you? I say to him, I'm not gonna repeat what I said numerous times on the thread. So I've already talked to numerous times at this point. The same thing others repeated numerous times, Tim. You are clearly on out of control device of man. I would like the elders number please. I've asked for it several times now. I've asked him in the thread at this point and now I'm asking him privately. I've confronted him and I'm confronting him privately. I'm asking for this to be mediated within God's institution of the local church with authority pastors involvement. Brothers and sisters, this is 2015. And Tim said last night, he reached out to us. We never reached out to him. That is an outright bald face lie. And this goes on. This is 2015. I'll be happy to give you my pastor's number but not on Saturday night. And so I say, I'd be happy to get it now and I'll call it tomorrow or Monday. If you give me your number, I'll call you right now and tell you specifically my complaint and what I'm gonna make him aware of. And so the next one is number three. So I say, can I have your number please? And your elders please. I've asked numerous times now, Tim. He says, I may only have a short time to talk, family stuff. I normally don't talk on the phone unless I'm at work driving. Guys, we're gonna have to blank out Isaac. We're gonna have to blank out his phone number here. I didn't realize it was up here later in the video. Erase that out. So he says, later on February 21st, 2015, while bro, I'm reading the comments that Ken Cooks post and he says, I didn't read these comments before now. Not sure you should be asking for my pastor's number publicly because you say I was asking for it now in private and in public. So Tim said last night, he contacted us. We've never contacted him. Brothers and sisters, this is going on a five-year history. I have talked to him in private. I have talked to him in public, confronting his sin and asking for his pastor's information. He absolutely refuses. So now you heard all of that, right? Tim goes on record to say that that was in the past. He said that to Timothy Jones, brother Timothy Jones in their conversation interview that he had and all of this information is in the links below this video. This full video, I just made clips out of him. You can watch the entire video in its entirety on the channel. Also, brother Tim Jones in his interview with Tim Hurd on yesterday, I believe it was a day before. And you can hear all of these clips in this full context, but it doesn't take away from anything that Tim has said, let alone is a takeaway from his reprehensible character as an individual and as a human being. He seems to enjoy lying. He seems to enjoy slandering people and he seems to enjoy grifting because it pays. We know he can't be a pastor because he's already made that clear. He's disqualified. You can pull that information up. You can go to service Christie's video. Actually, that link is also in the bottom of this video description. I commit all eight, almost and a half hours of that video footage to you. It's called Deaf to Discernment. And service Christie did his work. He did his work. And only a fool could argue with the receipts that have been presented in that eight plus hour video. How dangerous is lying? I believe it's very dangerous. And I believe some of you who are watching this video and may watch this replay have been recipients of someone's lies. You may have lost your job, may have lost your livelihood, may have lost relationships or friends. Some have even lost their life over a lie. And once a lie is told, it is very hard to recover from those kinds of things depending on how severe and how serious that particular lie may be. And again, it's one thing to make a mistake and mistake something or misstate something.  But it's another thing when you double down on it. It's another thing when you try to mind screw and you try to manipulate people into thinking that they're the problem and not you. That you're the victim and they're the bad guy. Not the other way around. And this is the playbook of these people. They claim to be people of the truth, but all they do is spout lies and then they twist stories to fit their narrative, their corrupt, wicked, godless narrative, and then they send it out. And the weak and the naive and the gullible are those who take it in. This is why you have people like Tim Hurd who's able to have over 100,000 subscribers. It's not because of hard work. It's not because he's putting in labor and being committed to the truth. He tells you what it's for. And you'll find out just momentarily in a few moments in this life, out of his own mouth, why Tim Hurd does what he does and he's not the only one. There are many others like him. He's just one of them. I wanna share the screen. I wanna share the story because my wife and I, we saw this today and this is very appropriate for this discussion as well. You may not remember or may not have heard of this. Some of you might have. Bill and Elizabeth Reed. Bill and Elizabeth Reed, their son, Jack, committed suicide. Why did he do that? Parents talk bullying after elite New Jersey boarding school admits fault in son's death. The parents of Lawrenceville School, the parents of a Lawrenceville School student appeared in a nationally televised interview Tuesday, one year after their son committed suicide. Bill and Dr. Elizabeth Reed appeared on ABC's Good Morning America. After the school admitted it failed to protect the 17 year old Jack Reed from bullying. The admission from the elite boarding school in Mercer County comes on the anniversary of Jack Reed's death. As part of a settlement with the Reed's, the school said in a statement on its website, it quote, examine its role and take responsibility for what it could have done differently. End quote. When these behaviors were brought to the attention of the school, there were steps that the school should and hindsight have taken but did not end quote, the statement said. Reed's parents said the admission from the school was very courageous and hope that other institutions follow. Quote, we are very gratified by the admission of the school, that there are things that it could have done and should have done, including the intervention of adults in certain circumstances, end quote, said Bill Reed, his father. Jack Reed was bullied over the course of a year starting in the spring of 2021, based on rumors. Rumors that had spread across the campus that the school later found to be untrue.  Later that year, an anonymous post on a nationwide student app said he was a rapist. The school never shared publicly or privately that the rumors about Jack Reed were false. Quote, when these behaviors were brought to the attention of the school, there were steps that the school should and hindsight have taken but did not end quote, the statement said. There were also circumstances in which the involvement of an adult would have made the difference. The school also admitted that on the night when Jack Reed took his life on April 30th of 2022, it allowed the student who previously bullied Jack to return to Dickinson House, a dormitory where he stayed after being expelled for an unrelated rule violation. Quote, largely unsupervised in quote, without notifying or checking on Jack. Quote, the school acknowledges that bullying and unkind behavior and actions taken or not taken by the school likely contributed to Jack's death in quote, the statement said. Reed's parents said that they were encouraging him and that he advocated for himself. His mother, a clinical psychologist, said there were no signs that the situation could go as far as it did. Quote, I think that what we realized from our situation is that it could lead to death. End quote, Dr. Elizabeth Reed said about bullying. Quote, this is a very serious issue and the internet absolutely makes it even much worse for kids today, end of quote. And it says here in the story that they started a foundation for their son. A lot of portion of this article says the school said that over the past year it has focused on a number of issues, among them house culture and healthy socializing, the structure of the dean of students' office and disciplinary protocols, and general health and wellness. It is hard to tell if the school is doing enough, is doing enough, said Bill Reed. Quote, we're anxious to see the success of their plan to fight bullying on campus, end quote, he added. I'll just add this as well. This is protestia. Why am I sharing this? Well, two reasons. One, because it's public. Two, because it proves my point about when you screw up, when we mess up, we fess up and we're supposed to make it right. This was three months ago. We called you the article, three months ago. We messed up, isn't it's important that people know about it? Three months ago. Yesterday we wrote an article about Grace Community Church and former Elder Han Cho, questioning his choice of employment and disparaging his discernment because of it. We falsely believe that his employer, a bioscience company, was purchasing aborted fetal tissue for experimentation and that he was in a position to know about it while turning a blind eye. Basically, quote, he must have known, he must have known that they were doing scientific study on aborted babies as the chief ethics officer, but did and said nothing. End quote. Now, I want you to highlight something for a second here. They said that he was an ethics officer. Don't, don't, don't, don't, skip over that. All right? Don't skip over that. They claim it that Han Cho was an ethics officer. We know what ethics means, right? We know what ethics mean. Okay. This is what they said. Sometimes the truth is right there when liars write it right in front of you. Thankfully, someone read the article, realized that we've got some details wrong and publicly rebuked us. Rather than double down on our error, we realized that we misunderstood some technical jargon, made a bad inference because of it and quickly retracted it with full disclaimers. Why? Because we sinned. We sinned against Cho, his employer, and we sinned against God. Now that's commendable, David. That's commendable Dustin. Let's continue. Because we believe in full transparency, they said. We encourage all our readers to read our articles with a critical eye and call us out when we fall short or get something wrong. Are you sure about that? Because Eileen Gray and John MacArthur, I have wait to see y'all make any retractions to the stuff the job said, but I'll continue. We don't want to covertly edit and correct an offending article and then not address it, hoping it dies and it is never heard from again. Instead, we want to make it twice as public as our mistake. You hear that, Corey? We believe it is a sin to bear false witness and spread bad information, even if it was inadvertent. And this is one way we offer accountability. I wonder does my brother Corey Minor still believe that? Our standard policy, they said, is to throw the article with our corrections and the corrections slash retraction page. While keeping the record intact. However, we didn't get a few details wrong with relatively minor implications, but we really got it wrong, causing potential reputational damage. You think? Given the egregious nature of our era, it became apparent that leaving it up ran the risk of it being shared further. So we nuked it from our Twitter feed. Thankfully, we never shared it anywhere else. Because of this sort of error is new ground for us, we're not sure if this was the right move. We believe it is. But it isn't easy to know if a different course may have been better. However, it is easy to know that we must do our best to make it right. We have reached out to Han and offered our sincere apologies, asking him to forgive us for our sin against him. Second, we're pinning this post to all social media feeds for the next month, so they will come before every article, even on sites where it never appeared. It is not enough to undo the damage, but it reflects our editorial commitments as best as we can, along with our sincere desire to be as open and honest with our friends and foes alike. Again, we're sorry, Dustin and David. Oh, that's nice. I'm just waiting for them to make some articles about the things that they've said about other individuals. Phil Johnson too, we're waiting. We are waiting. I'm waiting for them to make articles about John MacArthur and how he needs to step down because of his spiritual abuse of domestic abuse victims and their families. That's what we're waiting for. But it's kind of hard to bite the proverb to a hand to feed you, right? How many of y'all know who this person is? Anyone know who that person is? Anybody? Anyone? Take a while, I guess. Anyone know who this person is? This is Carolyn Bryant Donham. Carolyn Bryant Donham. Yeah, she died a couple of days ago, a few days ago, I think. What did she do? She was responsible for the murder of Emmett Till. Yeah, she lived a long life. Unfortunately, Emmett didn't. We all know the story, no need for us to repeat it, but you see what a lie does? A lie that only destroys reputation, but it destroys lives. And some of these people remind me of Carolyn Bryant Donham. It may even be related to her. How do we know? I don't know. It could be. It could be. May have to check some family trees and see what kind of fruit falls from it. But this is the woman that was responsible for the murder of Emmett Till. Falsely accused this boy of making advances at her, whistling at her, trying to press her. It's a term we use. And he brutally beat that man. He beat that boy, rather, I'm sorry.  And we all seen the pictures. We've all seen it. This woman never, never met justice, but Emmett Till experienced injustice. Why do I speak out for those who can't speak for themselves? Reasons like this and others. Reasons like this and others is why I speak out. And we'll continue to, because the word of God commands me to. That's why. Now, let's pivot a little bit. Still talking about our infamous friend. Cause I don't call him a brother. Y'all can call him a brother. I don't call him a brother. If anything, he's the so-called, but a brother, I don't see it. I don't see it. Call him a so-called brother. But nonetheless, let's pivot. And again, these links are in the description below. Brother, Tim Jones had a conversation with Tim Hurd. And let me just give you a little bit of background as to how that precipitated and how that went down. Tim Hurd went on social media and tagged a few people. And Tim Hurd was one of the individuals that he tagged.  Well, Tim Hurd, I guess, agreed to it, but under one condition. Yours truly could not be invited to come up. Why? He says because I'm an emotional person. I'm not able to be reasoned with. Those were his words. And that's why I put the video link of our conversation that we had back in March of 2021, March 6th, 2021, on why his statement about me is another lie. And I'll prove it momentarily. But it wasn't because of me, it's because of what I represent. It's because of the truth. And when you're known to lie, you can't stand truth. You can't be in the same space and atmosphere with the truth. You get uncomfortable when people who are known to stand for truth are confronting those who are known to lie and trust and believe.  And so in this dialogue and conversation that our brother, Tim Jones had, you can go to the link as well. It's in the description. You can check it out in this entirety. They had a conversation and some of it was somewhat incriminating. Some of it could have been handled, pressed in a little bit more, but hey, that's always those outside looking in. But Tim said some things I believe that we all need to give our attention to and then govern ourselves accordingly. So let's check it out. But can you clarify for me the fullness of Han Cho in regards to John MacArthur? What is your answer to Han Cho being basically coming back to John MacArthur and saying everything that we investigated is absolutely true.  You guys need to repent. And MacArthur saying, forget about it. And basically the elders coming around and telling this man that he needs to retract his findings or resign. What happens with that? And like I said, I'm not trying to come at you. I really wanna learn this. I really wanna know because I got a lot of people in my audience that wanna know too. We have to be careful with what you said because what you just said is false. What you said isn't what Han Cho said and it's not what John MacArthur said. And what everyone needs to realize is that we don't know all that was said. One thing I know is that the elder board did not commission Han Cho to do an investigation. That's false information that you have stated. That's false information that others are stating as well. It was a request that was, I'm sharing screen, Ernie. It was personally and informally a request was made. Personally and informally, the elders never commissioned him to do an investigation. This is work done by David Morrill. First and foremost, let's just touch this for a second. He heard what this man just said. He said, we don't know, right? That's what he said to Tim Jones. Tim heard his own record saying, none of us know, we don't know. But then he says, but what I know, well, how do you know that that's not what Han Cho said? Tim, did you talk to Han Cho? Did you have a conversation whether on a phone or virtually? Did you ever exchange contact information? Did you actually speak to former elder Han Cho to get his statement? Thereby now we know exactly what he said. Do you have firsthand information or are you getting it from second or third hand and even sometimes fourth hand, as you said in this video, sources? So are we to take your word for what we know is true that Han Cho was on, he was being interviewed by Christianity today and they have a full statement. And then after that, Han Cho makes a statement on his Facebook page confirming everything that he said on Christianity today was factual and accurate and there was nothing that was deviated from its original source and interview. So why would we take your word? Matter of fact, I'll be a fool to take your word any day. If people will take your word and take protest his word and this article, by the way, that David Mora wants me to read, I've already seen it. This is why I want him to come up. And since I know that this needs to be addressed publicly and I'll explain the reasons why we've been having this back and forth, David and I, I'll explain it before this live is over.  This article that Tim Hurd is referring to comes from the same organization who's notorious for lying and slandering people without evidence. They got so many retractions, you would think they're Michael Jackson doing the moonwalk. So how can you take anything that they say as truth? Because they said it? I mean, we know who was feeding them information. Phil Johnson. I mean, nobody has to be a genius or rocket scientist to figure that out. Phil Johnson is all in this. You can smell him a mile away. So the Christianity Today article claims that a lawyer and one of four officers on the elder board at Grace Community Church, Chow was asked to study the case. Chow's office was as recording secretary. Readers of Julie Roy's article would, readers would be forgiven for concluding that he was chosen for, excuse me, chosen by the elders to commission a fresh investigation because of some special legal expertise, a conclusion supported by his friend, Rachel Donholler, whatever her name is. In reality, Chow was asked personally and informally to summarize the available court documents from the David Gray criminal case that was alluded to by Phil Johnson back in March of 2022. No Chow led investigation into the church's involvement with the grays was ever requested by the elders. So that's important to note because that's one of your talking points and it's false. Okay. All right. So where, okay.  I mean, I'm not saying that David Morrow was wrong, but after everything that Pulpit and Penn have like really done over all the years and the bad rap that they've gotten, I consider, I consider Pratestia and David Morrow like the CNN of Christian News, boss. I'm not trying to down anyone. Like I said, it's not an insult, but at the same time, you guys say, well, that didn't happen, but here Julie Roy's reports different. So it's basically he said, she said at this point. So I'll give you what Julie Roy said. Julie said, Chow told CT that after TER's initial story published, GCC elders tapped him to review the decades old case. When he did, he became convinced beyond a reasonable doubt that David Gray was guilty and GCC had committed terrible injustice. In a 20 page document submitted, the GCC board, Chow reportedly wrote, now that the facts are indeed known, it's not too late to do justice even at this stage almost 20 years later. One's own integrity and upholding justice and being faithful, even in the small things, even for something 20 years ago, all matters immensely. But here's the reason why I'm thinking I'm gonna go in the direction of what Julie Roy's reported. Because Christianity Today picked up the story from Han Chow and Han Chow officially resigned after stating that when he came back with the facts, he was told by MacArthur and company that he needed to retract his findings or resign. So he says that this is what Han Chow says. Han Chow said, I was asked by the elderboard. You see what I'm saying? So you have David Morrill who's going to third party information to rebuttal something that Han Chow himself. So I'm coming directly from the source of Han Chow and David Morrill's coming from other third party and third party sources. Like I said, this is what your buddies at Protesti have done for a long time. And out of all the hit pieces and all the lies that they've been exposed for, dude, especially with JD, like I said, I'm not trying to kick them down. JD Hall, good friend of you guys, okay, I get it.  I have compassion, I have a heart for that. But the thing is, dude, is that I'm just saying, I'm not saying David Morrill's wrong. I'm just stating that when it comes down to everything, who, where do we really want to stand? Because I mean, David Morrill and they've already kind of proven themselves as being dishonest, doesn't mean that they're not being honest in this. You know what I'm saying? So I'm not trying to down you guys, but I'm just saying, man, like when it comes down, overall it's for the audience to choose, but the results, the results of Han Chow going to see, going to Christianity today and him saying this himself, you know what I'm saying? So, because this is what Han Chow said and Han Chow officially resigned as an elder on that board. Well, my young brother, Tim doesn't want to say that David Morrill is wrong, I'll say it. Yeah, he's wrong. Not only is he wrong, he's lying. He's lying and he's wrong, flat out. He can be no more wrong than he is now. So notice in his article, in his research, he's making a statement for Grace Community Church, John McArthur and all these people without Grace Community Church, John McArthur, making an official statement. Make that make sense to me, David. Where's your source? Who told you that Han Chow didn't say that? Where's your source? Who are the people that are saying that Han Chow is lying? I'll wait. And you see, these are one of the questions I'm gonna ask you, should you take this challenge and take this debate? Because I've already said that we can have it provided if these terms are met for both of our quote unquote channels. And again, I'll explain the reason why I decided to change course just a little bit for security's sake. And also for integrity, mind and the lack of yours. But nonetheless, notice what this liar, Tim Hurd, is doing. How is it that he claims to know but he's not a member of Grace Community Church? He has not spoken with, I would assume, I'm willing to bet he has not spoken with Han Chow. I would be willing to bet he did not speak with the individual that he claims did not say what he said in David Morrill's article, his piece. Yeah, so let's find out exactly whether or not Han Chow said what he said, whether or not Phil Johnson is lying, because remember earlier, right, in the article that they had to retract, the one that they wrote three months ago, apologizing to Han Chow. Remember that word that I told y'all to look at and don't forget the word ethics? This is the same guy whose ethics at his company and his business carried over as an elder that they respected, highly respected as an elder to investigate the Eileen Graycrate case. Seiko, I thought you said that they didn't investigate, they didn't do anything about it. Well, that's not what Phil said. March 24th, 2022, Julie Royce reports it. Oh, what's she doing with Julie Royce? Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Professional journalists, what is David Morrill? Anyway, MacArthur Ministry employees defend child abuser, dismiss, screeching, pushback. And I'm gonna read this in its entirety on the record, because I want this to be on record. Following exposés revealing that John MacArthur excommunicated a wife for not taking back her child abusing husband, prominent employees of MacArthur's broadcast ministry are defending the abuser and dismissing pushback from the survivor community as quote, screeching, end quote. Neither MacArthur nor Grace Community Church have offered any official response to the Royce reports initial exposé two weeks ago. So question, what is David Morrill doing? How is he making a statement when MacArthur and them haven't made one? Nevermind, too much logic right now. Detailing the shaming and excommunication of Eileen Gray. They also have not responded to the Royce reports, follow-up story documenting how MacArthur and Grace Community Church continued to shun Eileen and promote her husband, David Gray, even after David was convicted of child molestation and abuse.  I can't make this stuff up, even if I were Tyler Perry. I couldn't write it like this. However, two employees of MacArthur's broadcast ministry, Grace to you, Phil Johnson and Fred Butler, have commented online about the Royce reports articles. Butler has defended Grace Community Church's treatment of Eileen Gray and called it biblical. He also has asserted that David Gray is innocent and that Eileen's children accused Gray of molesting them only after seeing a therapist and recovering, quote, repressed memories, end quote. Eileen denies Butler's assertions and they are not supported by court documents. Johnson has referred to Eileen's communication as a quote, 20 year old disciplined case, end quote and says he doubts the quote, noise about it, end quote is legitimate based on the quote, screeching tweets from the survivor community, end quote. You hear that? You see how they feel? You see how these people feel about those who have been abused? He later walked back part of his comment. Johnson, a long time GCC elder and executive director of Grace to you also claims he had, quote, no involvement, end quote in Eileen Gray's 2002 discipline case and quote, wasn't serving as an elder in 2002 to 2005, end quote. However, records obtained by the Royce report showed that Johnson was a GCC elder as early as 1994 and including at least some of the years between 2002 and 2005. Johnson has been an elder at Grace community church for nearly three decades or more and according to letters obtained by the Royce report the GCC elders began their involvement in the Grace case in July, 2001.  I don't know if y'all smelled it. Y'all smell a lie? Yeah. That's when Eileen reported David's abuse to Grace community church pastors and submitted to marriage counseling with David under Grace community church pastor and elder, Carrie Hardy. It is also, it's also when Grace community church decided not to renew David Gray's contract as a teacher at Grace community church. Hardy urged Eileen and counseling to submit to David despite his admitted abuse. Despite his admitted abuse the Royce report previously reported. So in November, 2001, Eileen asked the elders to remove her from church membership, Hardy refused on behalf of the elders. Over the next five months, Grace community church repeatedly urged Eileen to drop a restraining order against David and allow him to return to the family. When Eileen refused Grace community church informed her of the elders intention to excommunicate her. MacArthur publicly carried out the excommunication on August 18th, 2002. Responding to our initial expose, Johnson wrote in an email posted online that Eileen's communication was a quote, 20 year old discipline case that I had no involvement in any quote. He added that Eileen's case quote, doesn't pertain to me in any way, though she, Julie Royce always attaches my name to pretty much everything she does in quote. Johnson was not named in the Royce reports initial or follow up expose. Johnson also wrote, here it is ladies and gentlemen, here it is. I want anybody to make sure y'all listen. Are y'all hear me? Are y'all with me? Give me a one because here's a smoking gun right here, right here. Johnson also wrote that quote, a friend of mine who is both an elder and an attorney with a special interest in defending real victims is investigating the case. But I'm just inclined to think all the noise about it represents a legitimate desire to know the truth because of all the screeching tweets from the survivor community calling for a halt to Shep Khan while someone gives a speedy answer to a piece written by a career muckracker who has proven to be inaccurate and misinformed at best. Proving to be inaccurate and misinformed based on who? Feel? He never answers it. He never proved it by the way. They just say it. And neither does David Moore. But anyway, expository parenting, March 12th, 12th, 2022. Many of you have questions concerning the Julie Roy story released this week concerning John MacArthur. As we abide by Proverbs 1817, I reached out to Phil Johnson and he provided the following comments to consider. Note, this is not any form of official statement from GCC. Yeah, it's a statement, but it's not a statement, right? Quote, I haven't even had a chance to read Mrs. Roy's column yet. She desperately posted it to coincide with the start of the Shepherd's Conference, which isn't completely over until after church tomorrow. She is writing about a 20-year-old discipline case that I had no involvement in. It doesn't pertain to me in any way, though she always attaches my name to pretty much everything she does. A friend of mine who is both an elder and an attorney with a special interest in defending real victims is investigating the case. I don't know whether the church will make a statement and if so, when? But I'm disinclined to think all the noise about it represents a legitimate desire to know the truth because of all the screeching tweets from the survivor community calling for a halt to Shep Khan while someone gives a speedy answer to a piece written by a career muckracker who has proven to be an accurate and misinformed in the past. If they want GCC to respond, they need to give more objective people an opportunity to investigate the case. Johnson's comments sparked considerable backlash from abuse survivors on Twitter who objected to Johnson characterizing their tweets as screeching quote unquote and his use of the term real victims, as you can see right there. And one mech, she says, is the attorney Han Cho or George Crawford? Does anyone know? Also notice defending real victims because they get to decide who's the real victim. Johnson tweeted a few days later, I apologize for the use of the word screeching. It's prejudicial to apply that adjective to written obligations. He also again denied any involvement in the Gray's case quote, I wasn't serving as an elder in 2002 to 2005. Notice what he said, this is his tweet y'all. He said, I was not serving as an elder from 2002 to 2005. I don't know this man. I don't know this woman, Ms. Royce. He tweeted quote, I have no first hand knowledge of this case and I'm not the right person to nag for answers. But yet he always responds. He says right there, I'm not evading responsibility. I wasn't serving as an elder in 2002 to 2005. I have no first hand knowledge of this case and I'm not the right person to nag for answers. Mrs. Royce dragging my name into this is pretty clear reason not to trust her motives. I do indeed believe that Ms. Royce has shown herself repeatedly to be a shoddy ink slinger with a personal agenda against JFM. But I apologize for the use of the word screeching. It is prejudicial to apply that adjective to written obligations. Johnson did not address being an elder in 2001. When GCC elders began addressing Davis abuse, records obtained by the Royal's Report also showed Johnson's longtime board service which includes at least part of 2002, 2005. In 1994, the year David Gray was hired as a GCC teacher, Johnson served as a member of the GCC's Elder Council, Elder School Council. According to a yearbook photo obtained by the Royal's Report Johnson did not respond when asked about his role on the council. There's a tweet right there. Julie Royce comes in for the kill. She says, thank you for clarifying. Would you explain your role as a member of the Elder School in 1994? The year Gray was hired, had you stopped serving in this role by 2001 when GCC did renew Gray's contract? There's this picture right there, the second row far right. Kerry Hart is on the far left, second row. You see it there. The master's reject, you see this portion right here. I'll read it on the right. It says, quote, also, how can Phil Johnson claim he never spent an hour with David Gray nor formed an opinion of his pedophile conviction when Phil was on the Grace Community Church Elder School Council that hired him? Also of note, Kerry Hardy who ordered the wife to drop the restraining order. Johnson is also named as an elder in 1999 and 2000. On the Spurgeon Archives, a sub page of GCC's website and 2000 Christianity Today also cited Johnson as, quote, an elder at Grace Community. Kind of hard to try to scrub all your lies when you make so many of them, I feel. In 2003, John McArthur expressly thanked Johnson for serving as a fellow elder. Johnson is also included in a 2004 list of GCC elders obtained by the Roars Report. Johnson did not respond when asked directly if the 2004 list was accurate. I bet you didn't. However, after being confronted with numerous pieces of evidence on Twitter, Johnson tweeted, quote, GCC elders can take a year or more on inactive status for various reasons. I've done it twice. Hence I was not involved in this case, end quote. Johnson also said that he might have been, quote, end quote, present when Eileen Gray was publicly shamed in August 2002. Quote, we have discipline issues to deal with in about a third of our communion services, end quote. Johnson tweeted, quote, I don't remember or record each one, end quote. Tony Thomas, in his tweet, he responds to Fred Butler, Minnick Sorseman, and Phil Johnson. He says, quote, I lived in LA in the 80s. I met John McArthur a few times, corresponded with him, attending Grace Community Church and the LA Sister Church. I supported Grace to you for many years, beginning in the early 80s. Phil was at GCC when it happened and was probably at the service when she was shamed. Phil responds to Tony, might have been. We have discipline cases, I mean, see we have discipline issues to deal with in about a third of our communion services. I don't remember or record each one. And he on and on says that. Here's Spencer, I mean, Fred Butler. He does look like Spencer on King of Queens, don't he? Another Grace to You employee at GCC, remember Fred Butler has also commented online about the Roars Report stories involving GCCs and McArthur's treatment of Eileen Gray.  Well, you be the judge. Butler, whom former Grace to You managing director, Travis Allen once called one of the strongest theological minds I know.  He says, we play a small portion. Yeah, we made some contributions. He said it in his article. He said, whoever thought quoting the reforms would be considered race as well. Your racist statement about black people would be considered race. He said that black folk, us negrists, yeah, we made some contributions. He says, but our contributions was built on the true foundation, the true foundation, which happens to be, he says, which so happens to be according to God's sovereign providence, a white evangelical reformed one. That's what that man said right there. Yeah, he said that. And if you don't take my word, please don't take my word for it. You can be a peran. It's in the video that I'm gonna show y'all the link. Once I read it, I'm gonna show you where he said this. It's in the video. It's in the video. Yeah, yeah, this guy said it. Spencer, I mean, Fred Butler, he said it.  We're not the foundation. He said the foundation is white folk. Oh, I'm not making that up. Oh, by the way, this is Tim Hurd's buddy. Yeah, this is Tim Hurd, this is Phil Johnson's boy. Oh yeah, all of, but y'all mad at me because I called these clowns out. But you can be a racist, but I can't call him a clown. Okay, got it. Not a problem. Not a problem. You can support people like R.L. Dabney who does not want to have anything to do with black for a matter of fact cause black folks less than human.  But nobody wanna talk about that though. But we got these, these coons, these sellouts, these Sambos, like Michael Thieve in a temple Williams and dear smoke turkey Christian, woke Christian. Yeah, you got them caping for these racist, but y'all wanna get at me cause I clown him and sun him for the foods and frogs they are. But anyway, he says right here, Butler stated in a tweet that David Gray was confronted over his sin, repented of his behavior, wanted to reconcile with his family and be counseled and disciple. The wife refused to take him back, which is an unbiblical reason for her wanting to leave the marriage. You hear this fool? Y'all hear this fool? He says unbiblical. Yeah, there's a tweet right there. Right there. She was held accountable for leaving her abusive husband. She got what she deserved according to Fred, AKA Spencer, King of Queens. However, Eileen says David was not repented before or after her ex-communication.  Two of Eileen neighbors corroborated her accounts, but I guess facts be damned, right Dave? No moral, right Tim? Right, Tim Hurd? Yeah, facts be damned. To hell with facts. It's all about what protestius says. It's all about what Tim Hurd says. It's not about the court documents, not about the testimonies of witnesses. Data's going on, rumors. But anyway, Butler further claims that the Gray's children accused David Gray of sex abuse after the mother took the kids to a therapist who recovered their suppressed memories. He adds suppressed memories is as reliable as spectral evidence, evidence of ghosts, he says. However, according to Eileen in court documents, Butler's claims are false. Eileen says the first report of sexual abuse by one of her children came spontaneously in May 2003. After crying for hours, excuse me, while other children played outside, one of Eileen's children told her that David had molested the child. Eileen stated in her 2005 court testimony, court testimony. The child also drew a picture of the abuse, which was entered in as an exhibit in the 2005 trial. The next day, the same child revealed more details of the abuse Eileen testified. Eileen then contacted her attorney who filed motions to temporarily stop David's monitor visitations. So a court order professional could evaluate the validity of the child's accusations. A licensed clinical social worker then conducted a court-ordered investigation and determined the allegations were credible. Eileen said, she added that in the social worker's final report, the evaluator stated that David profiled as a pedophile. Within a week of the evaluation, one of Eileen's other children told Eileen that David had molested that child too. Eileen testified. The Roars Report reached out to Fred Butler on Twitter, asking where he got his information and requesting to speak with him. So far, Butler has not responded. Your most cowards and frauds and wicked men don't. Proverbs 28-1 fits them perfectly. The Roars Report has also reached out repeatedly to John MacArthur, Phil Johnson, and other pastors at Grace Community Church for comment on Grace Community Church's treatment of Eileen Gray. No one has responded. But David has, David no more has responded. David no more is the spokesman. He's the parrot for Grace Community Church. So hey, if he says it, that's all that matters, right? But let's think about something for a second. Let's think about something for just one nanosecond, shall we? Because something is missing here. And here's the question. How is it that these people are making statements of Phil Johnson and them aren't? And also, if this friend who happens to be an attorney, for listen to this y'all, if this friend who happens to be an attorney is doing the investigation, and then we get a story from Christianity today that this elder who is an attorney was doing an investigation on the Eileen Gray case and has decided to resign because he was forced to make a decision to either retract his decision or be removed as elder. I think logic would lead us to conclude, this is just me. But I don't think about myself. I think there are some smart people in the comments and in the chat and who are watching this video. If Phil Johnson who unofficially under the expository parents Facebook page said, what did he say? Let's just go back up real quick. Cause God knows we don't want to miss quote, Mr. Phil. No, sir. Let's see what Mr. Phil say. Mr. Phil say, many of you have questions regarding, this is expository parenting. Many of you have questions concerning the Julie Roy story released this week concerning John McGarvey as we abide by prior to 1817 I reached out to Phil Johnson. This is the person who reached out to Phil Johnson and he provided the following comments. So no, so we can actually say this is a statement without it being quote unquote an official statement because Phil is saying that he's saying this although trying to hide behind it not being official. But we can hold this to your words, sir. Quote, Phil said this. I haven't even had a chance to read Mrs. Roy's column yet she deliberately posted it rather to coincide with the start of the Shepherd's Conference which isn't complete over until after church tomorrow. She is writing about a 20 year old discipline case that I had no involvement in. It doesn't pertain to me in any way. We know that's a lie. Though she always attaches my name to pretty much everything she does. A friend of mine, here it is ladies and gentlemen a friend of mine who is both an elder. Come on. What else does he feel? Keep talking Phil. He is an elder and an attorney with a special interest in defending real victims. So would Eileen Gray be considered a real victim? I would assume she would be until that the findings came back, huh Phil? Yeah, but we got you right here. You said a friend of mine who is both an elder and an attorney, wait a minute, wait a minute. Han Cho was an elder, he's an attorney. He did an investigation on a 20 year discipline case and came back with the findings and said that y'all messed up but it's not too late to do justice. He said, it seems to me that this is the elder that's your friend, probably he's not a friend anymore but at the time of the writing of that, of that comment, of that post, just a logic conclusion and deduction and reasoning would cause us to say, well, hmm, Han Cho was an elder. He was an attorney. He was investigating a 20 year discipline case that was on record. He comes back with his findings, tells the church, y'all screwed up, y'all treated this woman wrong, y'all need to apply Michael 6 and 8. You need to do justice to this woman. It's not too late, make it right. MacArthur says, forget it. And his capers told Han Cho based on the article, either retract it or remove yourself. Either line up with the rest of us and get this bread and be invited to the cool elders table or you got to leave and take a wild guess what that man did and may God bless him. May his tribe, may his family increase, may God overwhelmingly bless their brother. But ladies and gentlemen, it doesn't take for rocket scientists to see that these people are lying.  And yeah, Tim Hurd probably leads the pack. And you have an elder, Phil Johnson saying no. He's saying that Ho Han Cho is not telling the truth. Phil Johnson, that's who's quoted, that's what I read. Phil Johnson said no, he wasn't commissioned by it. And you're, at least don't mute me, okay? All right, all right, all right, all right, all right. Your charge of, I don't know if David's lying or telling the truth here or not, but and then you go on and on and on and all you're doing is poisoning the well. You're poisoning the well. It's a philosophical term. What you're doing to your audience is saying, look at all this false stuff over here, which you're not being specific and we don't want to, we don't have to. I mean, the JD Hall situation breaks my heart and it breaks my heart every day. And so what you have here is you've got Cho's testimony and what David is sharing is Johnson's testimony. Okay, so you've got two elders. Okay, you're going to believe one and not the other. But we're third party, we're fourth party, right? So we don't know. Do we actually know? Do we actually know? Is it Phil or is it Cho? Do we actually know? If you have two individuals on two sides, right? You have David Moore in a company who have proven themselves to be false. We have you who have admitted personally to Jeff Durbin that you intentionally lied and use your platform to do it. What I'm stating to my audience is not poisoning the well. What I'm stating to my audience is consider the sources. That's what I'm saying. So if Han Cho officially resigned, if Han Cho resigned and left the church stating this is why I left because I called them to do justice and they wouldn't do it, then I'm going to listen to what he says because the evidence, the circumstantial evidence pops up with him overall when you have Phil Johnson who, dude, Phil Johnson has lied for MacArthur for years, dude. Dude, MacArthur said he was there at Martin Luther King's death, bruh. And Phil Johnson said, well, you know, MacArthur just doesn't remember things right. MacArthur's, let me say something. Phil Johnson is a yes man for MacArthur. Everybody knows that. But my thing, and I'll let you speak in a second. My thing is the situation of where you're considering in your weighing the sources for information and protestia is not a good source for information and neither are you due to your own admission. Okay. If you're going to keep going back to 2017, right? You're going to go back to 2017 when I admitted my guilt. And when I make points, you're going to go back to 2017 and say, say, Tim, look at, look at, you lied and you were not trustworthy and you admitted it. You admitted it, Tim. You were wrong and you admitted it. So why should I listen to you right now? We need to bury that quick or everything that we're doing here is for naught because here, let me give you an example.  He's about to give an example. Okay. Listen, he said that out of his own mouth. He is about to give an example. We're going to hit an example in a minute. But first, shout out to Tim Jones on that part because you held him on that, bro. You definitely held him on that. Why should we believe you?     He says, David Morrill, protestia, they're liars. Phil Johnson is a liar, y'all hang around liars. So he held him to the fire of the facts in that regard. And so, salute to you, young brother, on that. Very well said, very well done. Gotta give my man his prop is on that. But Tim Hurray tries to gaslight and tries to wiggle out of this by making one of the most stupid.   I'm talking about slow as cold syrup. Turn upside down.  And here's what he said. Your friend, when I came up with Seiko Woods, as a result of that interaction, he had to publicly repent because he was wrong and he lied and he misrepresented me. He repented and I forgave him. And I don't bring it up, but it's a great example right here. I forgave him. So because he was wrong and admitted that he was wrong, I know you're getting a text message for clarification from Seiko right now, but because he was wrong and he admitted he was wrong, does that mean that I can just discount everything Seiko Woods says right now? Because, well, when he came up with the BTWN guy after that, he had to make a public confession that he was wrong and he had to repent. Now, I dropped it. I don't discount everything Seiko Woods says because of that and you should be fair and not discount everything that I said because I was a bad person in the back. I didn't like that person myself. That's why I repented of it, right? That's why I repented of it and confessed it because I knew it was wrong.  We see John MacArthur publicly shaming her in that video where he publicly, you said it was church discipline. He publicly shamed Eileen Gray because she wouldn't take her husband back. At that time he was physically abusing her and she wouldn't take him back. So they disciplined her. They disciplined her. He claims that he doesn't know if she was even a believer and at that time he's having sympathy for David. He's condemning, I wouldn't say condemning, that's a strong word. He's publicly shaming and excommunicating Eileen Gray from the church and then not too long after that, maybe a year or so, he gets arrested for raping the kids and beating his wife and doing a whole bunch of crazy stuff. So we have the video of John MacArthur publicly shaming Eileen Gray and finding sympathy with David Gray who then came to find out who's doing years in prison right now because of all the wicked stuff that he was doing to his children and his family. So the consistent matter of like I said, substantial evidence, you see MacArthur shaming Eileen. This is what I actually want you to ask or I want your side of this so I can understand. This is really so I can understand.  David Gray is found for sympathy and then he ends up going to prison. He ends up going to prison for the very things that, for worse than anyone could ever imagine. So she's still in excommunicated from the church. Where was he ever excommunicated from the church? So the situation that I have in my problem with this entire story is the fact that people are trying to defend John MacArthur when the very person that he actually found sympathy for found out he was raping his own kids and he ended up going to prison and Eileen Gray was excommunicated from the church. So that's what we call evidence. So if Eileen Gray sticks to what Julie Roy states and says this is all true and we see that he's doing life in prison right now, Tim, what's that called, buddy? What's that called? That's called proof, right? Wouldn't you consider that proof? Absolutely not. Absolutely not. Someone doing time for a charge is not proof that they did it. See, that's false. I would agree with Tim on that regard. In that regard, yeah. Someone doing time for a crime that they said that they did. Yeah, but if there's proof, if there's proof that they did it, if there's evidence that they did it, there's court documents, there's statements, there's records, there's video, there's even a written confession by the person himself who admitted that they did it. What do you call that?     Tim lays out the information. Tim Jones lays out this information as logically as he possibly can.  It doesn't mean anything. He just told you the information, the facts, court documents, statements, confessions, all of that led to this man's conviction where he needs to be and where he is right now, and these people defend this stuff. But y'all get upset and angry at me because of my tone and you got people that are now still reeling and trying to recover from things that have happened to them as a child. But you worry about my delivery, my style.  Now, let's go ahead and deal with this situation as well too. He said that I repented. Okay. Repented of what? What was the sin? What was the sin that I did? Does anyone remember before I even read it, do y'all remember what the situation was between me and Tim Hurt when he came on my live that day and it was, it was dated March the 6th. Does anyone recall the argument? Does anyone recall the contention which really actually led up to him coming onto my channel because I accused him and I know what I said. And during that time, I accused him for taking my video without permission. And so I reported it, okay? I reported it. Yes, there it is right there. Thank you, thank you, Proverbs. I reported it for YouTube licensing violation because I thought that's what he did. And so he said he didn't do that. I said, no, you did. We was going back and forth for a minute, right? And so upon further review, I realized that, yeah, I messed up. I made an error. I foster accused him about something that he didn't do. I thought that's what he did. You know, the same thing that Samuel did with Hannah and first Samuel won? Yeah. Only thing is, I went and made mine right publicly. And here's what happened. Let me just, let me show you the screen because I want you all to have this and see it with your own eyes and for it to be on record as well too. Here's the video right here. It is called White Supremacy and Bible Thumping Wing Nuts. Dated March 6th, 2021. 2021. After realizing that I had wrongly accused this man, I posted and put the following statement on my channel and in the video description right there. You see that? I'm gonna read it in case Tim doesn't want to watch it and read this again because I know he saw it. How we know he saw it? Because he just said that I quote unquote repented. But he didn't tell y'all what the quote unquote sin was. Remember? He made it seem like I'm doing what he did. No, no, sir. I made an error.  I said quote, upon further research after my conversation with Tim Hurd contesting the use of my video being shared on his platform without my permission, my video with Julie Royce was indeed allowed to be used for such purposes due to the creative commons attribution. That's what I had it set for. I thought it meant something else. And I was basically just getting into this whole YouTube creating thing. But anyway, which automatically allows the use of all videos to be reused and or reuploaded instead of manually selecting the standard YouTube license option. Since my videos are monetized, it was my understanding at the time that such reuse resharing of my videos takes away potential revenue from my channel, thus warranting such actions to be reported to YouTube administrators. My understanding was wrong. Therefore, based on my new understanding and information of the facts aforementioned and presented, I publicly confess my sin of error and ask Tim Hurd's forgiveness for my statement of wrongfully accusing him of unlawfully using my video and the contents thereof without my permission. That's the statement. That was the issue. This guy is trying to make a scene to be something that it was not. And see, this is why it is important. This is why Proverbs 1870, the first presents his case seems right until another comes and questions them. And so my brother, Tim, Tim Jones, he probably wasn't aware of that. He probably didn't even know about that. So he couldn't have pushed back on this. And see, and this is another reason why Tim Hurd didn't want me to come up with Tim Jones on that channel, on that live, because he knew he would have got his lunch aid. Because everything he would have said, I would have pushed back on. And he knows it. That's why he won't come up now, even now they won't. So yeah, you don't take what I say as truth.  You don't take what I say as true. Going Twitter, this dude calls me a liar, calls me all kinds of names. I mean, I ain't shooting on the name part.  But I'm saying he does not consider what I have to say as credible. Why? Because I'm supporting and defending those who can't defend themselves. I support and defend people like Julie Roy as soon as doing the work. That's why. So this is why these people don't have, they don't have anything to show for when it comes to facts. All they do is go by feelings. They go by subjective emotions. They go by hearsay. No facts. Do you think that Tim Hurd talked to Han Cho? Of course he didn't. Did he talk to Phil Johnson? Most likely. And that's what he kept saying. Who can believe Phil Johnson or Han Cho? I would hold, I would definitely believe Han Cho over Phil Johnson any day. Because he has a proven track record of integrity. Phil Johnson does not. Same guy that was doxing Julie Roy's a year or so ago and tried to mind screw and tried to act as though he didn't and she busted him on it. Have zero respect for these people. Have zero respect for people who support races too. And Phil Johnson does that as well.  Do you know why John MacArthur and the elders have stayed for so long? They supported David Gray? You say it's because they're unrepentant, harboring child abuser and all this. You and I don't know what happened. We don't know what happened. The elders have a little bit, well they got a whole lot more knowledge than you and I have. All we have is the court documents and interpretations of them and the ruling, right? We have all that. And you and others, you make these videos and you get all excited. He supported, Grace Community Church supported him while he was in prison. They gave him, they sent him letters and they prayed for him and they supported his prison ministry. Why do you think that they're doing that, Tim? You claim it's because he's a wicked man. You claim it's because he's not saved. There's a flip side to it, Tim. There's a flip side to it. One of two things is happening here. In my opinion, I don't know. We're like fourth parties to this. They have more information than we do, right? The reason, I can only conclude this. The reason why Grace Community Church supported David Gray is because they believe he was innocent. When David Gray is in prison, guilty, and they're supporting him, it's one of two reasons. Either they believed he was innocent or they believed that although he was guilty, he was repentant. If Grace Community Church saw David Gray as an unrepentant, guilty man, they would treat him as somebody who's not a believer. Them not believing the charges against David Gray, that is not sin. It is not sin for them to say, I think he's guilty. Excuse me, I think he's not guilty. So it's not sin to believe him, but it's not sin to believe him, but it's sin to put her out for refusing to go back to this person who is in sin.  These people are lost and these are supposed to be men. They are clowns, they are suckers. They are weak, they're trash, straight garbage. Sorry excuse for a man. God help their wives, man. Oh man, God help their wives. If this is what you hear publicly, I don't know what else to tell you. I do not know what else to tell you. This man is defending pedophiles.  Now at one time, has he come to the aid support, help defense of Eileen Gray or those who are victims, objects of abuse, molestation. Not once, he makes excuses for wickedness. Those people don't know God. You can't, you can't.   Yeah, I'm angry when I see people being abused, when I see women and children being harmed and they're supposed to be protected and cared for. Have every right to be abused. But hey, you know what, it's not my, I don't have any skin in the game, right Corey? It's not my wife, it's not my daughter, it's not my, yeah. And that's the mentality and the attitude that these people have. They're straight clowns, they're straight bozos, man. To sit there and make excuse for that kind of wickedness, that kind of wickedness. And then try to guise it as that the church were doing their job. No, they weren't. Their job was to protect Eileen Gray and these other women and children and they failed. They refused to do it. Cause they believed that he was innocent. How you believe that he was innocent when you have court records and documents in his man's own confession saying that he did this stuff? You tell me, brother, your guess is as good as mine. The parole board then considered him very repentant. They gave him some more time. They said this stuff was so wicked and so atrocious. They said, no, he's not repentant. He's still trying to claim his innocence. They're like, nope, you're gonna stay with us for a while. Exactly, it's just a shawnda. And she's just one, just one of many. Wait till MacArthur dies. Oh, if the floodgates gonna be open. Some people just waiting on this man to die. Trust me, they went on this man to pass on. Just like it was Robbie Zacharias. No different. We almost done, let's continue. Why did Eileen Gray tell the elders, I will let him back in the home if you rehire him? I believe she said that because at that time, she knew as much as the elders knew and they didn't know the extent of the charges that would come in the future. You know that the whole Eileen Gray stuff, it's been on the internet ever since it happened. It's been, Julie just put it all together and given it new life. And I don't worship John MacArthur. All right.  I'll be completely transparent, okay? I have 108,000 subscribers, right? And it's not because of me. I am not a witty guy. I don't, I'm not a quick thinker. People don't tune in to see, what is Tim gonna say today? They tune into, what's the latest news on John MacArthur? I've had a YouTube channel since 2012. And about five years ago, I was like, how can I get more subscribers? I mean, I have 8,000 subscribers, but it took me eight years to do that.  I was like, just look at the videos that get your most views. Well, whatever you're saying there, that's what your audience wants to hear. Well, I did a search and it's like, every time I talk about John MacArthur, I get lots of views. And I believe that John MacArthur, the people who war against John MacArthur, see the same thing. And they're like, hey, when I talk negative about John MacArthur, I get more views. So you know what? I'm gonna talk negative about John MacArthur more. So it's on both sides. John MacArthur's not gonna be around forever. So I need to come up with something else to talk about. And also, I do share other videos that sometimes get a lot of views, but with the 100,000 subscribers, there's the plaque. I never made a video about it because I know it's not about me and I display it sideways because it's kind of awkward that I have it because again, it's really not about me. Yeah, it's about you. It's definitely about you. Hey, dummy, Bible dummy wingnet. You ever read this court declaration statement? You know the one that Eileen Gray submitted? You said, why does she want to take him back? Why would she want him to take him back? Right? I'm gonna read this for you because maybe you don't know how to read where it will comprehend. You might be kind of slow. So let me just read this to you. This is page eight, by the way. This is Eileen Gray's declaration, her declaration statement, court document. Page eight, quote, Mr. Hardy falsely claimed that I never wanted to reconcile with respondent. That is, David Gray is the respondent. That is false. Mr. Hardy told me that I should reconcile with my husband upon his own command and that of the leaders of his church. I have desire to reconcile our marriage and that is why I entered counseling with him and have repeatedly requested that respondent and I obtained professional marriage counseling. Since he repeatedly refused pastoral counseling for us and for himself, we remain separated. Respondent refused stating, quote, it would violate my conscience to do it. I cannot do it, end quote. My reply was, she said, it did not violate your conscience to kick blank and abuse the kids, but it would violate your conscience to seek help for your marriage. Based upon that and the fact that respondent has continually threatened me, lied, stalked, falsely accused me and has demonstrated emotional instability. I have chosen to remain separated and so protect myself and the children from this abusive man. She continues on, Tim, heard on two occasions, Mr. Hardy said to me, quote, you are irrational. The first was Mr. Hardy telling me to reconcile with respondent against my will and it's dated September 7th, 2001. That's the first instance. I said to him, here's the test and the challenge because they told her to reconcile with David Gray. She said, okay, you want me to reconcile? You want me to bring him back, take him back? Is this what she said? I would like you and the elders to prove to me that you trust David with your children and the children of the people in this church by hiring him back. I also said, when you restore his job, then I will know it's time to consider his return home. Mr. Hardy became noticeably upset and said, quote, you can't expect us to do that. You are irrational. You are making irrational decisions. The second occasion Mr. Hardy called me irrational was on November 6th, 2001. In this recorded conversation, we discussed respondent's immoral behaviors with our two daughters, his delusions and his chronic lying. We also discussed the fact that respondent did not think that his immoral behaviors were wrong. His conscience was not working properly towards the end of this session, Mr. Hardy said, quote, listen to this, Mr. Hardy, biblical counselor, Hardy said, quote, it doesn't matter if he is not entirely repentant, end quote. Wow, she says. Clearly Mr. Hardy did not seem concerned for the welfare of our children. When I told Mr. Hardy that I was afraid of respondent and afraid to allow him to live with us because he was still unstable, lying, unable to judge right from wrong in relation to his own actions and had a long history of violence with his family, Mr. Hardy said, quote, you are irrational, end quote and proceeded to berate me verbally. So she receives more verbal abuse. I mean, when does it stop? When does it stop? She goes to church to get help, the abuser, she tries to go to her husband to seek reconciliation, to try to work it out, she still gets abused, she can't win. He told me, that is Mr. Hardy, she told Mr. Hardy, Mr. Hardy told her that he and the elders of the church were now telling me to end restraining orders and reconcile with respondent. Mr. Hardy told me, September 25th, 2001, that I had wrongly separated from my husband. He also said, it is not entirely biblical to run from abuse. I'm gonna say that again. It is not entirely biblical to run from abuse. He was referring to verbal and emotional abuse, yet I protested and told him, I'm gonna protect my children. Not entirely biblical to protect my children, so Bush can protect America, but I can't protect my children. Mr. Hardy was seeking to put a guilt trip on me of his trusting, pressurized.  I know, that's hard language for some of y'all. The Bible says, read it in Proverbs, chapter 12 verse one.  Stupid. The Bible also says in Proverbs, as a fool does not delight in understanding, but only in revealing his or her own mind.   Last couple clips and we're done. Thank you for your patience. Hope it was being informative to many of you. Because here is where it gets rather interesting. Now, this last two clips, I mean, this was the death knell, I think. I mean, service really, he put the work in on that eight plus hour video. And he gave the summation of these people. I mean, he gave the full summation. If you still support protest here and you still defend this kind of wickedness, then I have the question, not you truly say, I really do.  Because what you're not gonna do is come for her and thinking I'm just gonna sit back and let y'all do that. But I got a challenge to make in just a minute. But let's hear what brother service says in regards to these wolves protesting them. Well, of all the men in this picture, James White is the only one that said anything publicly before all of this happened. And I've got other issues with James White and no doubt Jordan's personal provocations to James White further this thing along. Nevertheless, James White publicly talked about this. Chris Rosebro and Phil Johnson, the tag teaming hypocrites, they didn't have a word to say. Well, they admit that he's slanting stories and it's a yellow journalism. Jordan did not act alone. He acted in support with the support of all of the elders of the fake church that he was a part of and all of the members of protestia, Dustin Germain, Seth Dunn, David Morrill, all of these just foul creatures, that's what they are. Jordan Hall acted in cahoots with them. Insofar as Jordan Hall was guilty of slander for years and he was. Insofar as Jordan Hall has been proven to be a legal defamer and he is. Insofar as Jordan Hall is a spot and a blemish to Christendom and he is and has been, all of those at protestia were complicit in it and part and parcel of Jordan Hall. I read the story that was written and was basically telling him, you are reporting facts that you don't have yet. That's what they do. We're still waiting on a lot of information. You have half of the story. Pay close attention here. You are extrapolating information from that half of the story and you are drawing conclusions and reporting them as facts that are based purely on speculation. It is my clear memory that I said to him, you take the few facts that you do have and extrapolate additional information from them via speculation and his response was, I have that right. Oh yeah, he thinks it's a gift. And I replied, you don't have that right to report a full story with only half of the facts. This is what Pulpit and Penn, protestia, Jordan Hall and all of his minions are known for. Taking half of a story, sometimes a quarter of a story, sometimes they'll fabricate something. They'll take a piece of a story, extrapolate and fill in the blanks according to their own wicked dictates, claim that it's their right, but when it comes to Jordan Hall, when his own church confirms that, yeah, his wife told us that he physically assaulted her and her children. Oh, and by the way, here's a police report with two listed victims and two witnesses. They don't wanna touch it. Why? Because they're all wicked hypocrites, just like Jordan. This is not guilt by association. This is called guilt by cooperation. Amen, brother. Amen. Now, let me just say this and I'll be done. My challenge still stands for you, David Morrow. I've already emailed you. We had an email conversation. Initially, I extended the opportunity for you to come up on my channel. You said, no, you were not interested. I said, I figured you would say that, but let me just go ahead and then I'll just come on your channel and I'll just deal with you on your channel. And then upon further reflection and further consideration and recollection, I forgot about the people I was dealing with and thank God for the Holy Spirit. Because I forgot how dirty and how deceptive and how notorious you are and your ministry is when it comes to facts and when it comes to representing the truth. And so I say, you know what? No, let's get a moderator. That's what I said.  I'll provide them in just a minute. But I said, let's get a moderator. I said, because that way, that way we can make sure we can make sure that what's being said is being said rightly. We can make sure that what people are on, they're representing their positions correctly. There's no issues. There's none of this banter and all this other kind of stuff. I understand because you didn't want to come on my channel by yourself. I said, okay, I'll come on yours. But I said, you know what? No, let me just go ahead and let's get somebody that we hopefully we can mutually agree that would not be biased. And so I gave you two names. The first name I gave you was Dr. Michael Brown. I gave you Dr. Michael Brown. We both agreed that Dr. Michael Brown would probably be the one that we could get. I contacted his office, his office contacted me back and said that he would not be able to do any, he would be out of the country until June. And if he has any engagements, he has to fulfill those. And so we're talking about maybe July. I said, well, that's too far out.  I said, whoa, let me have another one. I said, what about Dr. Dennis Swanson? Dr. Dennis Swanson was a former faculty member at the Masters Seminary University and he was vice president there and he worked there for 25 years. A quarter of his life was spent working for the Masters Seminary University and he was under the leadership of John MacArthur. So I think he would have something to pretty much, you know, he can, you know, moderate this.   Don't know what those were. But nonetheless, you said you would agree if I read your stuff. Told you I don't need to read your stuff. I read enough to know why I'm bringing you on and want to come up with you. You insisted and you wanted me to read your articles, read one of your articles and then in writing state what my disagreements are. I said, I'm not doing that. There's no need for me to do that. That's a waste of time. I don't have much time to be wasting on that. We can do that verbally.   But nonetheless, I said, hey, let's just do it that way. Let's get a moderator. You came on my chat earlier today before the live had started and before that commenced and you called me a coward in the fraud.  Blood runs through my veins, not real Kool-Aid. And you're nothing to me at all. And the only reason why I am deciding to have this conversation or have this debate or dialogue or have we wanna coin it or term it or phrase it is because people like you are lying and covering for pedophiles and covering for child abusers and wife beaters. And you're doing it under the guise of caping for a preacher, a so-called pastor like John MacArthur who has been housing and fostering these people and financing people like David Gray and writing letters to little girls in 1979 like Wendy Gray, whose father molested her and saying that her father's a still a good man and he's gonna be on staff and it was only removed from making out with the church secretary. So that shows you where John MacArthur's standards of moral lie. So who are you really defending? We know who you're defending. And so the challenge is still available. Dr. Dennis Swanson has agreed to moderate our debate live on this channel. If you want me to come on your channel to do it, ask him and see if he does. But he said he'll be more than happy, more than willing to accommodate and serve as a moderator between the two of us. It is yours to accept, yours to reject. But I'm making it known, I'm making it public now. Now, let me get to these emails. I wanna have two emails to read and this is the first one. This is the one you sent to me last night at 1138 p.m. You said, Seco, below is the invite for tomorrow night show. That's today.  You said below is the invite for tomorrow night show. Again, we can talk about whatever you want. Although I'd like answers to the questions you've asked. No, answers to the questions I've asked. If you'd rather not come up, you can answer the questions on Twitter, email or whatever. So I'm not doing a written answers. And then he puts the information here. I didn't put the link in there because then I'm gonna have to post it for the link there. But it was tonight, 6.15 p.m. Mountain Standard Time and so forth, right? I responded back to him and I said this, David, due to prior commitments, I would not be participating on your broadcast. However, as initially stated in my email, I still extend you the opportunity to appear on my broadcast to discuss John McArthur, Julie Royce, Eileen Gray, Wendy Gray and Han Show only. I have no interest in discussing any other unrelated topics with you. Also, upon further reflection and consideration, given the fact that your ministry and reputation has a track record of failing to display integrity in the work you JD Hall protested produced and are notorious for slander and misrepresenting others unless the two of us can agree to have a mutual moderator to facilitate our discussion slash debate coming on your broadcast will be futile, fruitless and a waste of time. Let me repeat, so there is no further misunderstanding. Unless the two of us can agree to have someone we mutually trust, respect and who is unbiased to moderate our discussion slash debate then coming on your broadcast or mine for that matter will be futile, fruitless and a waste of time. In other words, I don't trust you. And it wouldn't surprise me if the fueling is mutual toward me. If there are any names you can think of, let me know and we can discuss them at a later date. Now, at the time of that email, there was some conversing back and forth via email. And let me just read, I think the last two, that were transmitted. This one, here it is, I think this is the one. I'm just gonna have to read it, it's on my phone. David responded back at 1.36 this afternoon. He said, let me go back here, hold on. I think this is the one here, okay. Let's see, I think I got that one, 1.36, 1.36, 1.36. Sorry y'all, this is live so I'm trying to make sure I have it in the right time order. All right, okay, I think this is it. So he says, I'm good with Michael Brown if he's willing. Glad I gave him the suggestions. He said, I'm good with Michael Brown if he's willing. He says, Dennis Swanson is probably a bad choice since he's vocally and publicly attacked me for a long time. But if he's willing, I'm game, he says. Any discussion about J-Mac, the great case and or related concerns will find me citing my extensive research, he says, on the case, which has been freely available for well over a year and you are still free to read and just for yourself. Again, my original simple requirement for being willing to come up, you presenting one articulated disagreement with my work on the case in light of you calling me a liar and a coward over and over, because you are. He says, it remains unfulfilled, the request he says. Yet I'm a man of my word and will gladly come up once this simple request is fulfilled. So I guess he may not wanna, he may not come up because there's nothing for me to write to you. He says, despite your insinuations to the contrary, I did not and would not agree to your original terms. Yet you agreed to come on my show to embarrass me in my own backyard, quote unquote. I agreed and offered to discuss anything you want. Now you're changing the terms and while I'm truly okay with your new offer, you and I both know that if I moved the goalposts like this, you would have shouted it from the rooftops.  Yeah, my stream, my stream. See, I don't have a history of misrepresenting people and lying and all that kind of stuff. You do, but I'm trying to be fair and have it to where we have a moderator facilitate and handle this situation. You would think you would have a problem with that. You said, I had no interest in coming up with you. I know that. You said, I have no interest in coming up with you, but I am happy to in the event you fulfill my simple request or you secure a reasonable moderator, we can stream the discussion on both of your channels, on both of our channels. At that point, I'll be happy to join you and you'll be free to prove I'm a liar in front of everybody. So again, we already had the moderator already told him that. And so then I said to him, this is the last transmission, I believe, at 237 for me to him. Thank you for the super chat. Thank you, Super Tech MTM. You said, I spoke with Michael Brown's personal assistant, Brandon, he informed me that Dr. Brown will be out of the country this month and will not be available for interview or engagements until July the latest. So I would assume having him as a moderator isn't possible at this time. I will ask Dr. Swanson via Twitter if he would be interested and willing to moderate our debate slash discussion. That way, you will be able to see the conversation and interact with him as well. As far as reading any of your articles and or refuting them in writing is concerned, I reviewed enough of your quote unquote research to conclude that your work is misinformation at best and slanderous and defamatory at worst. And I have no problem presenting my case verbally, face to face should you desire to come up. Otherwise, there is no reason for us to volley this back and forth because it's useless. Lastly, and as stated in my previous email upon further consideration and recollection, your reputation, including protestia for being an organization of integrity is woefully lacking and notorious for manipulating and twisting stories to suit your agenda. Therefore, it is for these reasons and many other documented reasons that I've decided to engage you in a public debate or discussion with a moderator present to ensure both parties will conduct themselves accordingly. My character and reputation speaks for itself regarding my integrity. Unfortunately, yours and protestia does not. I'll provide evidence to support my position later today when I go live and I've already done that. If you're still willing to have the debate discussion with Dr. Swanson as moderator, let me know and I'll reach out to him this afternoon via Twitter and ask him, I'll tag your name as well. And that was the last email transmission that he and I had and so yes, so that is that. So and Dr. Brown just DM me, that's funny. I have to respond back to him in a minute. Let's see. So anyway, so that was the gist of the whole thing. So Dr. Swanson is willing to moderate. I think that that would be reasonable because just to have us do it, it's gonna probably not go well. So to be fair, I said, hey, if you agree, if we agree to a moderator, then let's just do it because I'm not writing anything. I don't need to write my dissertation or write my disapproval or disagreement to you. I can make that verbally clear as I've already done so far now or yeah, or we can get Pagani. Yeah, get Pagani.  I can get ready to put your tray tables and stuff, get ready to land this plane. But I wanted to introduce to you all an artist. I discovered this artist and man, listen, he's worth, he is worth a listen. I don't know why this guy has not gone platinum and why he's only gone wood. He should get more than wood. He should have gone platinum. And maybe it's just me, but maybe if I'm wrong, then you guys can tell me, but I think this artist here, he's worth a listen. Now, all I ask is don't block me, don't unfriend me, don't unsubscribe from me, but maybe this is some talent that we need to see that's in the making. Ladies and gentlemen, I introduce to you the one and only one and hopefully only Mr. David Morrill. Everybody give him a hand. Let's give him a hand, y'all. Let's give him a hand. Let's give him a hand, y'all.  Come on. Come on. All right. He's not gonna provide an A and B selection. He's gonna provide a selection. Chocolate. That's a chocolate. Ah. If you want me to come up, gotta agree two terms. Oh, we will not have a debate. That's it. Okay. Simple. Simple, y'all. Let's agree to the terms, shall we? Can we do that? I'm just asking for you to be reasonable, Mr. Morrill. And we can get this thing, hopefully started this week, maybe. If you're free Friday or Saturday, let me know. I'll let Dr. Swanson know and we can make this happen, sir. All right. Anyway, that's it. I'm done. I'm done. I need to get to my family in just a moment and I don't know what that was, but yeah, don't cry. You don't have to cry. Oh, man. That's worse than my girl wants a partner. Oh. Y'all are brutal. I thought the song was brutal, but anyway. Let me get out of here. Let me get out of here, but listen. Hopefully you all heard the receipts, saw the receipts. It is what it is. These people, Godless, totally Godless. But anyway, please like, subscribe, share, hit the notification bell, like this channel to get the algorithm activated and let people know that we are here. Also like to support this ministry of finance, you can do that by clicking the link information, the donation links information there. Again, those of you who are in the United States, if you wanna support this ministry and this channel, we encourage you to use these options here. It has a ticket across the screen and below the video. Also lastly, BCB merchandise. BCB merchandise, you can hit the link below at the bottom of the video as well. Also those links to the videos and the clips and all of that are listed in the video description below as well too. So it is there. You don't have to worry about trying to find it. I have it already below waiting for you all to review. Zereza says, no, I'm being serious. If he came to Capitol Records or Busted Records, I stopped the song 30 seconds in the same band. Please don't waste my time. Oh my goodness. Nah, yeah, y'all can get that tune out your head now. Y'all gonna be walking around in the kitchen.  Let me get out of here. All right, y'all, I'm done. I'm done.  Hope not. All right, y'all, listen, I'm out of here. I gotta get on to the family. That's my time. I thank you all so much for yours. Y'all know the drill. Whatever you do, do all you learn I'm God. God bless. Mama, I love you. P-O-P. I only die. Right, these are all good pimps, boy, baby.