Board member Sharon if you would please go ahead and test your audio and visual for us and Stephanie is on Nicholson if you would please go ahead and test your audio and visual for us Hi Eileen. I'm actually in the chamber, but I'm just signed in to use my screen share Great. Thanks so much. Thank you And board member Sharon if you could test yours for us as well Okay, I had to get back to my computer Perfect. Thank you so much Board member McHugh, if you would please go ahead and test your audio and visual for us Can you see me and hear me? I can thank you so much All right, it looks like everybody's here So if all the board members could turn their videos on and obviously remain muted, we'll get going Because it is 4 30 All right, and Adam We're waiting for you. All right. There we are excellent. Everybody's turned on fantastic. All right, so, uh, it is now 4 30 And at that time I'd like to call the regularly scheduled meeting of the city center of the designer of the board to order And with that, I'd like to remind everybody why we're still in a virtual Setting and that is a pursuant to government code section 54953 And the recommendation of the health officer of county Sonoma design read board members will be participating in this meeting via zoom webinar Members of the public can participate virtually at www.zoom.us Slash join or by calling toll free one eight seven seven eight five three five two five seven In both instances you can use the meeting ID eight six seven five eight four five four zero seven three Public access to the meeting is through the zoom platform For the public availability provide comments during various public comment periods additional information related to meeting participation is available at the city's website At frcity.org slash design review board The meeting is also live streamed On the city's website at santa dash rosa dot legis star dot com slash calendar Click on the in progress link to view the meeting can also be viewed on comcast channel 28 And is also available on the city's youtube channel at youtube.com slash city of santa rosa So with all that I like to turn it over to the recording secretary for a call to order. I'm sorry for a roll call So Let the record reflect that all board members are present Excellent. Thank you so much. So with that we'll move on to item two, which is the approval of minute And we did not having to approve. So we'll just keep coasting on by And we'll go to item number three, which is public comment. This is a time When any person May address the board design review board On items not on the agenda for the evening That are within the jurisdiction of purview of the city of santa rosa design review board each public Each public speaker may speak up to three minutes and With that I'd like to open the public comment period recording secretary If you'd like to make a comment you could do so by selecting the raise your hand icon at the bottom of your zoom screen If you're calling in, please press star nine Chair weigel. I don't see any hands raised And I also do not see any hands raised. So with that I would like to close The public comment period and with that we'll keep rolling along to item number four, which is board business And with that we'll read uh 4.1, which is our statement of purpose Zoning code chapter 20 dash 52 That zero three zero f project review the review authority shall consider the location design site plan configuration And the overall effect of the proposed project upon surrounding property And the city in general review should be conducted by comparing the proposed project to the general plan Any applicable specific plan applicable zoning code standards and requirements Consistency of the project within the city design guidelines Architectural criteria for special areas and other applicable city requirements e.g City policy statements and development plans. So with that I'd like to roll into item 4.2, which is our board member reports and Today is a fun meeting I think for everybody because we have Some brand new design review board members Which is fantastic. So congratulations and welcome And then we also have some sad news because I believe one of our board members Is leaving us after this meeting tonight. So I'm going to turn it over to our two new board members board member Withrich, I hope I got that right We'll let you go first and then we'll go to board member jones carter and we'll let you go second So if you could just tell shane a little bit about yourself and Whether or not you're excited to be on the city's design review board Yeah, thank you very much. My name is earnest with rich. Um, I am An accessibility program manager for an architecture firm here in santa rosa So work a lot on Projects related to accessibility I'm a certified access specialist ICC accessibility plans examiner Do work with Or collaborative work on boards with the certified access specialist institute And also with the division of the state architect as a subject matter expert So I hope to bring something to the table that can Help you all out and I am excited to be here And it's on way as much as I love board meetings, I guess But I I have watched some of the past Meetings and it looks like you guys are really doing a good job. So Thanks for the welcome Thanks Ernest and we're happy to have you uh board member jones carter So my name is melanie jones carter and Most recently I was on the art and public places committee as the vice chair. I've been there for four years I don't have a background in architecture or landscape architecture. I have a variety of Johns that I've held in the past But I do have a significant other who has a strong background in planning And is is my backup person. I think some of you know charles carter. He's on the planning commission And I am really excited to be here and I hope to bring out a different view point Then those of you in the profession Thanks for having me Thanks melanie, and we're glad to have you here too. Um, and then it is with sad news that uh I have to turn it over to board member mickey now. So john, do you have any uh anything to say? This being your last meeting fellow board member, I just want to thank you all for your patience and your diligence in terms of educating me About design and design review and the things that I have learned It's been a pleasure to serve on the design review board and I absolutely enjoy all of the Dialogue that we've had all of the Discussions we've had I've learned a lot and I absolutely appreciate All of you and I am grateful for the opportunity to have served. So thank you very much Thanks, john. Yeah, we're I'm glad to see you go. You always seem to be the voice of reason with us sometimes So that was something that I always really appreciated and uh I think you know your eye for detail Really showed up a lot on various different projects. So I'm I'm sad to see you go and I'm glad we have some new board members and and it and as it turns out I also know who's replacing you but um, I think we'll we'll leave that to when that person Comes to the next board meeting so they can introduce themselves So with that um vice chair birch and uh board member Sharon a thoughts Adam you want to go ahead All right, I can dive in Michael. Yeah Yeah, john. I just just wanted to uh to say thank you um for for your service service both on The cultural heritage board and with the design review board with working with you on on on both Boards has been very valuable. Um, you've you or you're an asset to both of these boards to the design review board Over the past couple of years has been really great to to hear your voice Um, you have certainly made our city a better place and have added to it And thank you very much for your service and I look forward to Seeing you around town and uh, who knows maybe we'll see each other in person one of these days Well, yeah, that would be great. I would really enjoy that So thank you very much john. Thank you so much. I've learned so much about plants from you that I never thought I would ever know There's a big world out there. So let's keep talking. It is Okay, thank you so much john. You're welcome Great. Yeah, yeah, and I will I will tell the new board members. Um you know, we We sort of we leave the planting to adam if you have a favorite plant Absolutely come come bring it forward But adam does definitely handle it that into the business for us for the most part Um, I do I do know that urnist has a background in landscape. So I'm not so lonely anymore. So Perfect. Thank you. Good I'm not a landscape architect, but I play one on tv. So Um John thank you so much for your for your viewpoint and meetings I think you've really kept us on track at times and we've really uh the the dialogue I think about Where some of us designers head with projects and where uh, and where and where you would you would sort of set a course for You know getting projects through or or not being too onerous is also a great viewpoint So I really have appreciated working with you here and then working of course previously um When you were on the heritage board, so Uh, you know, I I'm not sure what boards you're moving on to. I'm not sure what you're doing I would love to know if you're going to public you public works or um Some another board to the members said to the new to the new Crew here. It is so refreshing to see Uh a couple of people come forward at one time on this board. It is a challenge to find um People to serve on the design review board. It is a unique board in that it's Technical in a creative way, and it's it's there. There's a lot going on. There's a lot of nuance It's a fun board to be on because we we do Get to make our own You can you can sort of find your own place and you can make your own way We are restrained, but I would say that our charge is entirely Ambiguous on some levels. So you really do get you really do have some room on this board to affect city You know policy and and decisions and that sort of thing. So welcome aboard. It's great to see you both And I look forward to serving with you Thanks, Michael. So again, yeah, uh, welcome and uh, excited that we're we're getting a more More rounded up board. Uh, I was getting a little scared there for a little bit There was only four of us and so if anybody missed a meeting for whatever reason we we lost our quorum So that wasn't good. So it's uh, I'm glad to see uh, the council members have appointed um Some new faces and and ditto to everything by stripper said So with that, uh, we'll move on to department reports and I'll turn it over to our board liaison supervising planer mickelson Thank you chair weigel and members of the board I just wanted to welcome both board member With rich and board member jones carter. I believe is in the council chambers, but maybe we're having a technical pickup Yes, no Can you hear me? Okay. No We can thank you. Okay I have to get very close to this microphone. So Good afternoon. I just wanted to welcome board member with rich and board member jones carter and also Thank board member mcqueen very much for His time on the design review board and the cultural heritage board We will certainly miss your presence On this board and that concludes my report for tonight. Thank you Well, thank you. Thanks. I appreciate you All right, uh, so with that we'll move on to item six, which is statements of abstention And I'm I'm sure the Three board members know I have to abstain from item 8.1 tonight Our new board members are just learning this which is fine So I have to abstain from item 8.1 The architecture firm I work for has a project immediately adjacent to this project Uh that you're reviewing tonight. So unfortunately, I have to recuse myself From this project And so with that I am recusing myself from item 8.1 So we'll move on to item seven, which is consent items Which we don't have any this evening and we'll move on to item eight, which is schedule items and at this point I will turn of the meeting over to vice chair birch And I will see you all in a couple of weeks So have a great evening. Good luck tonight Welcome to design review board. I'm sorry. I can't be here with you tonight As I have to recuse myself. So Good evening and good night and good luck All right, I've got I've got this so you guys you guys are in good hands Um, I'd have 8.1 is a concept design review the mcm at santa rosa Not a project design review at 3991 sabastopol road dr 22 dash 047 And I will turn it over to staff for a staff report Good afternoon. This is Amy Nicholson. I'm presenting on christin a two means behalf So the item before you is the mcm at santa rosa project and this is concept design review So no action will be taken this evening The purpose is for The applicant to really Provide an overview of their project I'm going to quickly talk through the process and then for the board to provide any comments They have on the design prior to the applicant submitting their design review application As this slide here shows the project site. It's located at 3991 and 3995 sabastopol road It's just south of highway 12 and north of sabastopol road This slide shows an aerial of the site it The eastern portion of the site is primarily undeveloped and there are a few existing buildings on the western portion of the site And you can see there are some existing Residential uses to the east The proposal before you this evening includes a 146 Unit project on a site. That's about 6.5 acres The project includes a mix of one two and three bedroom units Which would be located within two and three story buildings and there are Both open garage spaces and also surface level parking spaces proposed The project also includes nine very low income units And then in addition each of the units would contain either a private deck or patio space And they would range in size from 650 square feet to a little over a thousand square feet The project will include a number of planning entitlements So one item to note is that the site is located within one of the city's priority development areas Which is the sabastopol corridor priority development area And so that makes the design review eligible for reduced review authority, which would be before the zoning administrator The project will also require a general plan amendment and rezoning And so the site is currently designated for low density residential development And the project would require a rezoning to our medium density land use designation Uh concept design review, which is highlighted here. That's what we're doing this evening I already mentioned design review before the city's zoning administrator And then there would also be a lot merger required prior to building permit issuance This slide here shows the existing general plan land use and zoning Again, both of these would need to be changed from low density residential to medium density residential To accommodate the 146 units This item before you tonight is not considered a project under sequa in that no Action would be taken that would result in an environmental impact However, any Approvals required for the general plan amendment rezoning and design review Will be subject to sequa and so an environmental document or will be forthcoming Uh, so with that I Um Just like to ask the board to provide comments on this item. Um, I have the applicant's presentation As well. So I'm ready to share that um when Vice chair birch is ready for me to do so. Thanks Yeah, let's um go ahead and I think that uh, let's see in the context of um A concept review Maybe not a bad time for questions from the board or do we want to wait till after the applicant presentation Questions of the board to staff Let's do the application. Let's do the applicant first. Yeah, perfect. Let's let's have that Let's let's have that presentation and then we'll come back and do questions for staff and the applicant Great. So the applicant presentation would be great right now I'm pulling it up. Give me just a moment and then to the applicant team Let's make sure that they have permission to speak. Lonnie. Okay, great And so if you can just let me know when you would like me to advance the slide. I will do so. Thank you Good afternoon. Can you hear me? I'm Dan Hale Yeah First I'd like to um, also welcome the two new board members to the December review board Uh, you know, I myself uh worked on a December review board for over 10 years. So I understand the dedication it takes Uh, and I commend you for you know serving the city and members around Santa Rosa on this December review board as as A few of the members said you could really do have an influence on on what happens in the city and You know, most design review boards have a very positive influence and I'm saying now to someone who has to present in front of you and Convince you that we have a good project. But uh, all right. Thanks for joining the board and I look forward to hearing your comments towards the end As I mentioned, I'm Dan Hale with Hunt Hale Jones Architects other team members here this evening to participate or answer questions include March capital management, which are the developers FDS, which is A design firm that collaborates with us on the architecture C2 collaborative our landscape architects will give a short presentation after mine And in civil design consultants are our civil engineers This is a view of our project from Sebastopol road and Gosh, we have this iconic palm tree That's located on our property and it's located near the front of our property and uh As was mentioned earlier, I'm an architect. I don't know a lot about Trees and plants. I know when I like I see something when I like it and this seems to be a pretty special tree I don't really know how native it is to the Santa Rosa area But it seems to be in good health And we see it as a real opportunity to incorporate it into the project I think that our team believes that when you can take elements of the site And design around them, um, it adds to the meaning of the site design and grounds it better into the neighborhood and um is It does not result in in a cookie cutter approach to to lay out in site design. So Next page, please Amy described the site pretty well. I may add a few more points to That just in terms of maybe some people who who might be watching from home The the area to the immediate east is the existing and southeast residential And then we just have less developed primarily the commercial uses to the south and the west We are located on Sebastopol road close to the right road intersection and behind us is the highway 12 and the Joe rodata trail. I think I pronounced that right It immediately abuts the river property line Nick's site slide, please These are some views in case you are not as familiar with the property The top three photographs are from Sebastopol road Uh, the first photograph to the top left kind of is the area where the they mentioned on the site that's undeveloped It looks straight back And in towards the rear of that is hard to see in this particular site But there's an oak grove and those are the second trees on the site that we Want to save and we designed our site plan around the trees of the rear The other two top photographs are different views from the eastern edge looking back towards our property The middle photographs are from the west western edge looking back east and you can see right in the center of our site Is our iconic palm tree Um the rear bottom photos are from the rear of the property Along the trail looking back in and that center photograph shows you those oak trees towards the rear that we are incorporating into an outdoor space Next slide, please So as was mentioned, uh, this is proposal for 146 rental units What I will add to that are nine of these are going to be affordable But that was important to mention. Um, Amy did mention One two and three bedrooms and the size of the units won't repeat that Uh, but I will discuss a little bit about our approach to the site design It certainly starts along sabassable road will be improving the street Widen it adding a curb gut or separated curb and sidewalk It'll be very similar to the street improvements to the project to the east of us, which is the The mixed use residential project As I mentioned we Our entry our entry into center of the properties are located also next to that palm tree So it creates a really nice entry sequence. The entry will be gated But recessed off of sabassable road so you can have a loading zone before Or stacking zone before you you get into the project once you enter Immediately we have what we call our amenity building is a single story structure includes the leasing office The business center the mail room those sorts of elements and it connects to our primary outdoor amenity space which includes a pool The circulation through the site Is what you can commonly refer to as a loop road, but I think provides several advantages To this kind of long and and slender piece of rectangular piece of property It first allows us to pull the buildings off of the site property lines Out 50 feet and orient them towards a central green continuous green space That green space which will be described a little bit more detail by landscape architect Corporates three separate different outdoor amenity spaces for the residents Additionally, we are able to provide off of that loop road Direct open garage parking under the buildings that then have direct access into the building itself The additional parking is located on the outer edges of the loop road With some covered carports Integrated into trash enclosures and potentially long-term long-term bike parking As you look around the property We also have access to To eva and or fire emergency access to the properties on our east and west. That's something that planning uh fire and emergency vehicles are requesting So the loop road has very a lot of advantages to our particular piece of property Next slide please This is more of a technical A site plan, but what it shows are the shaded areas of the buildings in the center Our buildings are both two and three stories We'll talk about that a little bit more of that in a minute But the shaded areas are the three story portions And the unshaded areas are the two story The shaded areas around the outside are our covered carport parking and or garbage enclosures Next slide please So again, this is the front of our project on sedastable road We thought it was important to keep all units along the front two stories that kind of reflects and complements the existing residential mixed use project to the east of us We also face the units to engage sedastable road Facing the units out towards the street as much as possible We've incorporated and designed into kind of an outdoor layering effect of outground floor patios walls and fences And the landscape architect will describe that a little bit better But our entry has separated in and out with a central landscape median And again is complemented by this iconic palm tree As a feature element Next slide please This is a typical elevation of one of our buildings Uh, I would start to focus on the lower right hand portion of this of this rendering These are the units to face the central open space You can see that our edges are two stories And we bass up to three stories in the center of the building provides a nice massing break To the building itself The elevations are developed in a very common term today as they call it a transitional style We use some traditional materials such as stucco Lapsiding, board and bat But then we incorporate into a more modern aesthetic with flat roofs Modern proportions to some of the massing elements window punctures Detailing which is clean and simple metal roofs so it gives it more of a A blend of some traditional elements with some modern features The rear the rendering on the top right is Faces the dry biology. You can see we have open carports on the bottom that then provide direct access Into the building The renderings on the left are both the side the two-story elements on the sides there was Some questions or some thought about what the overall project Color scheme would be because I'm showing you one particular building on this rendering We have very little frontage onto public street, which is the basketball most of this project is more of an internalized Community So our thought process right now is that we would have a similar color scheme For all the buildings now notice that there are several colors used on the buildings They're applied in a manner that express the massing differences Different materials are selected to be different colors So that's our approach right now. We're certainly interested in hearing your thoughts as we get into the discussion a comic period Next slide, please There was also a request to maybe provide some additional detail because it was a rendering of the small scale So we're trying to blow up part of this Elevation and describe to you and give you a little more detail as to our intentions Um the back wall plane, which is kind of the lighter color is the stucco element And in the secondary projection from that wall plane would typically be a four inch smooth horizontal lap siding Those elements also have your typical bedroom windows Which are a clean square puncture Which would be wrapped in a flat trim and that trim would also be whatever that body color is It wouldn't be highlighted as a trim around around the window Balconies which project out the furthest are typically an important bath material And we have different expressions as to what that balcony edge is on the ground floor It's a covered open area with an extended Ground floor space with a low patio wall Then the patio decks themselves sometimes have a solid guardrail Sometimes they have an open guardrail with a horizontal wood element that gives you a texture change a color change But the wood elements would be closer together so it's not real opens. It's more solid So you don't necessarily see through it readily and provides a little more privacy and coverage of whatever someone might have in their decks compared to some other railing opportunities The landscape architect will Provide a discussion on all site walls and fences so I won't discuss Our entry elements there that show an adventuring at this point in time Um next slide please we were also asked to describe what the um Carports and trash enclosures or long-term bike storage units might look like and this is our concept currently The enclosed area for the trash would be a CMU wall We anticipate that wall on the outside being a stucco finish Uh, the structure itself is going to be metal with a metal flat metal roof And potentially it would incorporate solar panels on those carports Next slide please We don't typically get into the units The sizes were described earlier just to show you, you know, we have several different unit types Going from the upper left across a typical one bedroom, and then we call it as the middle one is a split two bedroom The upper right is a corner unit. So that's a three-bedroom unit And in the bottom units are different configurations of a larger one bedroom Or we call it a grouped two bedroom with more of a larger Open great room, excuse me to the living space on that one two bedroom Next slide please This is a concept of how all of our buildings are laid out I'll start with the diagram or the lower right hand corner. That's the ground floor plan The access road the loop road is on the very bottom of this where it says first floor That's where you have open garages off that drive aisle doesn't have access to into a corridor Ground floor units are accessed directly off of that corridor This is a walk-up building also just obviously For the new board member all our ground floor spaces will be ADA adaptable and conform to all the new ADA requirements in terms of door sizes and clearances as bathroom sizes and thresholds and things of that nature Second and third floor access off of internal stairs and in an interior interior corridor With our flat roof design We will put as much mechanical equipment as we can on the top including ac condensers to get them off the ground floor And in as many solar panels as possible. We don't really know With the new Changes in the code yet what our solar requirement would be But I think we have between the carports and our flat roofs ample area to provide the panels that will be required Next slide, please So that is the end of my presentation We've tried to Do a site design that's sensitive to the existing Features that we wanted to save existing to the neighbors pulling buildings off the edges Massing the buildings along the basketball of two stories Providing a massing relief and interest to the buildings on the interior two three stories And then also designing Some really usable Outdoor space and amenity space for the residents. So with that I'll turn it over to our landscape architect Unless you have questions for me right away Let's go ahead and get the landscape architect's Presentation anything you guys want to show being that this is a concept design review and not a not a public hearing Unnecessarily we'd love to get all the information and then get Questions from the public and be able to come back. So let's go ahead and wrap up this presentation. We'll go from there Club board members. My name is Darren Farnworth. I'm with c2 collaborative and thankful for the opportunity to walk you through the Landscape and the softer side of the project here As dan mentioned, uh, I won't reiterate a lot of what dan was talking about but we do have Um By I'm sorry three separates open space or common areas Common area a is the pool area, which is adjacent to the clubhouse and then As he mentioned, there is this green corridor that Is the spine through the project that leads you down to common area b which is an open turf area with some picnic pads and and barbecues along with some smaller seating notes for those who prefer to be outdoors with their laptop able to plug in And enjoy working outside and then common area c is What encapsulates the existing oak trees? What we plan to do is Obviously, we have to preserve the grade at those trees and so we're not Proposing to do any sort of hardscape around those to help protect those But we are planning to do a floating boardwalk of sorts That passes underneath these two trees with some seating areas Maybe a small cafe table and chair And also some other components adjacent to that to help kind of support that activity We do have an open lawn play area that's mounted. So it's a little more of a passive Outdoor space play area And then right next to that the rectangular area just to the side of that Which is above this mounted turf area is a botchy ball court And then right between that and the trail system, we do have a partitioned area for a dog park Has a vestibule area. So for security reasons, you know, keep dogs from escaping but We have way stations provided inside of that as well The the landscape pallets Uh, we we've Narrowed it down to some potentials. Actually if you go to the next slide, I think oh The next slide actually shows some of these areas that we were talking about a little closer and We're also we put some thumbnails To the right there that kind of portrays the design intent Uh, you can see that this is going a little more in a I would call it a more modern But organic kind of push With her design And let's go to the next slide after this one Yeah, before I get into the softscape, let's talk about walls. Uh, we were talking about um We felt it would be important and probably an item of Uh, that you'd want to know or understand and that is the wall system that's happening in this project We are proposing that the perimeter Wall that you see here with the dark blue dots Is a perimeter wood fence that would reach uh six feet tall Uh, there may be some conditions depending on grade that we may have to retain underneath that to Uh, to create uh, or to maintain the great difference from the adjacent properties We won't know that yet until we actually perform a Some civil engineering on this to understand better what those grading what the grading is there At the primary entry you can see a lighter kind of an aqua blue dot That is our six foot tall tubular steel fence meant to be Uh, a little more visually permeable Into the project from the from sabastable and then looking at the Private adiospaces that are at grade for the first level Uh, we have a 42 foot uh inch tall wood fence and gate Uh, creates a like a little stoop to these units And then uh the deep red, uh dashed line it represents the 42 inch tall tube still fencing That encloses that uh dog park area And the last is the five foot six inch tall tubular steel fencing that we have around The pool deck area to help secure that Let's move to the next slide And so looking a little closer at The detail or the look of these, uh different types of fencing The top left is our perimeter fence at six feet tall, which is our wood fence And below that is the six foot tall tube steel fence at the main entry And then to the right of that the dashed deep red or deep blue is the Pool enclosure fence, which is virtually the same just six inches less at five foot six inches tall to contain The uh or enclose the pool deck area and then right above that the dark dog park enclosure fence at 42 inches tall again Looks very similar to this type of fencing And then to the right of that are the private patios at 42 inches tall with the wood fence and gate With that little slat opening between slats Uh to I think it kind of harkens back to the style of the architecture But still maintains that level of privacy that's needed Let's go to the next slide So this is looking at our conceptual lighting design We have security lighting That is meant to illuminate the parking lot Which you can see here with the the blue and the red boxes This is again, we'll need to achieve the necessary foot candle requirements and Light illumination requirements. We haven't quite gotten into that yet, but that this is just kind of a proposed layout design That we think would work this project We also have pathway Lighting along some of these pedestrian pathways Which is meant to be more of a ballard application and then We're looking at more ambient lighting after this which is tree up lighting and flood lighting on walls and pilasters And the last would be if we have any sort of structures like in some of these amenity spaces With maybe some sort of lattice work or pergola We would have a low voltage light that would shine down to illuminate this space at night And looking at these fixtures a little closer. Let's go to the next page And this again, this is just a starting point for us as to the look and fill for these types of fixtures the top two left Are the parking lot lights that we are thinking that again with that hooded downlight fixture Again, I think it speaks back to the style of the architecture And to the right of that is the pathway lighting that would Be flanked to the pedestrian walkways through the project that shines down again and illuminates that walkway And the bottom three are the low voltage more ambient types of light that would do tree up lighting Flood lighting and of course the structural down lighting in some of these amenity spaces Let's go to the next page So this is where we are looking at A very broad at least at this point a very broad plant palette That we're proposing for the project one thing to to note or to be reassured to is that we will be meeting the the model water efficient landscape ordinance requirements And we know that there is a budget for water for irrigation So we are picking plant material that is in the low water use category that requires very little precipitation or water application to Keep this thriving beautiful landscape In this project I don't believe there was another page after this. Is that correct? That's the last slide I have here. Yes great So I turn it back to the board if they have any questions There we go you What I would love to do here is probably uh, this is not a public hearing, but we do invite public comment In our concept hearings, we want to make sure that Any neighborhood or or citywide Citizens who want to Ask a question can do so now would be a great time And then the board can actually ask those questions of staff and the applicant team So if I could turn it back over to the chamber and have That team Open the public hearing on this comment. That would be great If you wish to make a public comment You can do so by selecting the raise your hand icon at the bottom of your zoom screen If you're calling in please press star nine Vice chair birch. I'm not seeing any hands raised Yeah, I don't see any hands either. Let's just give it. Let's give it 30 seconds to make sure phone callers would have an opportunity and Pull it back to the we'll pull it back to the meeting and if somebody does raise their hand from the public We will probably will grab them anyway It's informal during a concept design review for the new board members. So at this point I would look for questions to staff or the applicant from From the board I'm going to start I'm going to start with the members who have been on the board and then we'll roll into Board member wutrick and jones carter. So john, do you want to take first shot at questions for staff and applicant? Well, first of all, first of all, I don't really have any questions of staff and applicant at this time Okay, adam No questions either right now. Thank you Okay, board member wutrick Yeah, the only question I would probably have is just based on it being sabbatical road Would there be any kind of a traffic study that takes place somewhere along the process? Just to verify if there's 146 additional residential units It's a small road what the impact is Probably a question for staff. I'm I'm thinking to start I'll jump in and give a quick answer The nature of the development that is going on in in these areas where we're Just just my my experience here And the road improvements that will go on in front of the project are driven by the project itself And they're linking together for the most part and I I'm not sure just who you have on amy tonight, but They they're getting done one part at a time. I'm certain there will be a traffic study But it is it it's interesting. It's a patchwork process of how the improvements are made Amy you could probably give a better answer than me, but I thought I'd share that Thank you. I appreciate appreciate your comments and and you're right so When there are not frontage improvements, those are typically installed as sites develop. So this You know, it's kind of a It's a long process This project will have to complete some traffic analysis given the the number of units and the The increase in trips so it will likely be the Full traffic study that will be conducted as a part of Both the project review and also the environmental review Just and just to touch more clarity for the new board members A lot of times we will see these projects and and I I don't know sometimes it it's out of sequence to The benefit of the design review board for having some work done prior to our review And sometimes it is not the benefit of the design review board for the work that we do It's it's interesting. You know, sometimes we'll have a planning commission approval where a site plan is locked in and we can't have an impact on it And other times we look at a project like this where there's no traffic study done yet And so all we can do is ask the question, but that's just uh, that that's just my Two cents and guidance and love having new new board members to share to share with so Um, one thing to add to that michael, I could um, yeah They also for the new board members one thing to notice And on the agenda is the concept design review and it says not a project So, um, you know, sequa has not even been taken into account yet And so we'll again that sequencing question that michael brought up is that we'll see things This is basically the first pass before anyone really else has gotten a chance to take a look at it And urness, it's definitely good to be asking those questions because You know the applicants can see that You know, these are the things we're thinking about that we're looking at and then they can while they're doing their iteration Look at this again. So, you know, feel free to bring any of all of these things up And the public will do that as well. So, yeah, the public will ask those same questions at this juncture Even though we're not quite there yet. So it's yeah You'll you'll find we have a unique position in the process at this point. So um Board member jones carter any questions of staff or applicant Um, yeah, I do have a question. It's so I know the project says that there are nine units for very low income Is that it are there any low income or Units available See the applicants hand raised. Yeah. Hi, this is dan. We are proposing currently nine very low Income units The others will be market rate Okay Amy, uh, any input or thought just just it's always really helpful for us and certainly Board member jones carter. I am not an expert. So I always like to get up to speed Yeah, share with me sort of where that where that lands them. What what is the at at nine very low? um, is that Get putting the applicant outside of the Um Position where they need to do it movies or is that in the formula? Is that sort of the sweet spot or where where does that put us? Or that's a planning commission question more than designer view board But I think it's always helpful in a hearing that the public has access to to just sort of have a basic understanding. So Thanks vice chair birch. I'm I can look at our inclusionary housing ordinance and Take out the calculator and see what what that equates to And I'll jump back on when I have that unless the applicant has done that analysis If not, I'll be back with you my guess is we've hit the sweet spot But yeah, if if there's any input from the applicant side, um It would be it would be great to know so As far as hi, can you hear me? Yes Hi, this is Eduardo sagas. I'm The vp of development at march capital management I just do wanted to provide a little bit of background as to the calculation of the nine very low income bmrs So this is a project that is utilizing the state density bonus program Um, and we are using 25 percent of density bonus, uh, which requires based on state law seven percent Of the units to be very low income So we are in compliance with state law and with the local ordinance of portability requirement Great excellent, and that's a you know Board member jones carter those are great questions to ask again. This is a you know, this is a Public hearing even though it's just a concept design review And I think those are the questions that are always nice to have out of the front Out in front of people and make sure that we're always having that conversation. So thank you for that Excuse me vice chair if I can just jump in really quickly I'd actually intended to mention this in department reports earlier, but I'm going to be putting together Kind of some mini study sessions for the board just because we're having a lot of change over On a few topics and so one of those will Focus on density bonus projects and also our inclusionary housing ordinance so When I was presenting earlier, I didn't realize that does that our density bonus would be required for this project Just because at this point it's Very early in the process and staff really hasn't done any any formal review So I'm glad the applicant was able to speak to density bonus. And so that's someone that can elect To take advantage of state density bonus law, which has a different set of affordability requirements than the city's inclusionary housing ordinance Applicants can elect to either provide on-site affordable units again those percentages differ from state density bonus law Or they can elect to pay Housing impact fees at the time of building permit issuance. So I'm happy to To talk more about those two concepts at a future meeting. Thanks Yeah, thanks to the applicant team for jumping in and doing the math. Amy put away your calculator. You're pinch hitting and and Working hard so But it is always those are great questions to ask and while they may cross lines between planning commission and designer view board Um, like I said, I think it's always really important to keep those keep keep those topics out front here So much appreciated Um, any other questions board member jones carter? No, let's I have some but I think I'm good. Okay Um, I'll jump in a couple of quick questions. Um The path to the zoning Uh to the zoning change from low to medium Um, I'm just curious as always the Where that happens where that process is does our decision to do our comments tonight impact that at all and not that I would Not that I would ever Advocate for not making that change just always curious about the process Sure, I can answer that so at this point the Applicants have submitted an application for the general plan amendment and rezoning. So those Would first go to following staff review An environmental review those would go Two entitlements would go to the city's planning commission First and they would make a recommendation to the city council and so assuming those are Those resolutions and that actually ordinance and resolution is adopted that would that would Change the land use in the zoning on the site Going forward regardless of if the development actually comes forward And then the design review application Could be approved Only following that action because the number of units That would be approved with with the design review Would only be allowed with the general plan amendment and the rezoning so those would happen first and then the design review component can be approved Got it. So I guess that that is my question was Are we seeing this again or not or is our what we do tonight going to end up essentially Becoming an approval after the After the rezoning So right now because this project site is located within one of our priority development areas It is eligible for design review action by the city's zoning administrator So comments are taken from the meeting this evening And then the staff review will happen and then it can be acted on by the city's zoning administrator So refreshing the board and and filling in and giving some insight to new board members This meeting tonight will become the the subject that will become sort of the the basis of the zoning administrators hearing For a final design review approval in a public hearing setting with the zoning administrator So what we share tonight what we put together as comments what we put forward though, we're not the final action the the public hearing What we put forward is followed through with the zoning administrator and recently we have been Taking part in zoning administrator meetings With mostly drew or myself actually there to help answer questions for staff and the zoning administrator So that our comments do go through so while we have a reduced review authority in the past For four years, I think in terms of these projects in priority development areas our comments do carry forward to that zoning administrator hearing and We are represented there and so just for what it's worth The important thing is to Comment on what you would like to tonight. It becomes part of the record and it does follow through and become part of the final public hearing So Appreciate the patience of the applicant and we're just trying to We're we're training on the go here. We're we're working on bringing new people on board and it's uh, it's good. So Um, my other question from the, you know, a simpler question to the applicant. What color are you proposing for the vinyl windows? Uh, the vinyl windows are milgaard white Okay, so kind of a it's it's a it's a bit of a zero trim with the With the building colors and then a nice crisp white vinyl window That's our design intent right now. Yes. Yeah, as I mentioned it the trim would be flat We wouldn't have the stool and apron and be a nice flat trim around the window Same color is whatever that body color is and the window punctures itself Yeah, not getting into comments, but that sounds great. So um Okay, so with with any other questions for staff or applicants based on anything that we've heard adam I've got one. Yes, um Related to the uh To the fencing Specifically in the front on the bestable road Um, and a two-parter ones for a question for the applicant and for staff just a little clarification um, I'm wondering how uh, what's the The proposed fence. I understand we're conceptual. We don't have a lot of measurements going on here but uh, how far off the Sidewalk and the the road frontage is the the Front fence the six foot tubular fence proposed to be so what's the the you know the front setback? And then um for staff as it just as a follow-up. Um, I'm curious about the The setbacks um the required setback um along you know for residential properties along um a road like this I did find in in the inner code that um, multi-family are not are exempt from From these uh regulations, but I'm just curious about how close the uh six foot tubular fence can Actually get to the road. So one for the applicant two for staff. Hey, this is jaren. Can you hear me? I can daren yes And I don't know if maybe dan has this information. Unfortunately, I don't have uh the digital file that I can refer to to look at this but um based off looking at the scale here on the plans it looks like the fence has probably setback about Six feet from the back of sidewalk At least six feet I think And we can confirm that as we get into this but uh, okay Yeah, I apologize. I don't have that information in front of me. Oh, that's okay. That helps And like I said, I I do know that we're conceptual is more. I'm just kind of curious about um where it is And dan you had something to say? Well, just maybe I can add to that for your your reference. I think daren's right I think the the fence right now the rod iron Tubular fence is about six feet our building setback We call it building one of the one to the uh To eastern side which is closer to the back of the sidewalk Our setback is 20 feet from the from the front of the side you call it the front of the sidewalk at the back to our building And then um our our low patio walls are a little closer to 18 feet Now that building the smaller building to the west is actually setback about 35 feet Five from the side My eyeballs add and my eyeballs are telling me that the From the curb to the sidewalk is about seven and a half feet Probably got a side walk and about five feet to the fence that's just that's just I consider myself gifted with scale so Those are all right I can just jump in quickly if if um just to speak to the setback requirement so if the re-zoning Goes through to the r3 zoning district because that's a multifamily zoning district No kind of special approval is needed for the increased fence height in what would typically be the front yard setback in a single family zoning district it would just being Kind of addressed as a part of that design review approval And of course if the fence Were to be Solid which it doesn't sound like this one is we would want to have Our traffic engineer and others look to make sure that there were no safety issues Excellent. Thank you applicant team and staff for Clarifying that that's helpful. Thank you Well if there aren't any other questions I think in a concept design review we're in a position where we bring this back to the board now for comments and what we'll do here And this can remain somewhat of an open dialogue over the years from Our small room seven where we all sat at a table and oftentimes had a design charrette And then we moved to chambers and it became more difficult to have a design charrette Then we moved to zoom and it became different Um But the point here is this is a bit of an open dialogue I think I'd like to have the board members make their comments We can talk about certain things and the goal here is going to be to leave with a Detailed enough set of notes to go forward With the applicant and to the zoning administrator For a future public hearing that the design review board's comments are heard and considered as part of that process So what i'll do is probably start with again Start with john and adam as a season board members to start to give some comments on the project I'll move to our new board members and then i'll wrap up With with comments at the end of that staff and You're pinch hitting vice chair tonight. We'll make an effort to sort of get get the information coalesced into a handful of of of Comments that are understandable for the process as we go forward and We'll ask the applicant about those comments and what they feel they can do See if there's something that's a discussion or a decision that we can have tonight So there's not a misunderstanding and and this can you know go smoothly to the zoning administrator after the other entitlements are in place So I will start with you john and on your on your last night Let you lead off with Comments on this concept design review item Well, thank you very much I am Want to first thank the applicant. This is one of the more comprehensive Plans that i've seen I very much like the design of how you present and how you have laid out for us Uh a very comprehensive plan about what you what you envision I suspect if I have any Comments at all relative to I guess I'm wondering if you have Looked around the neighborhood One of the things that that comes to be is is colors To me they seem to be a bit bland That they are that that I'd like to see a little bit more color I would also like to see you know, perhaps maybe some integration with the the The community around around the project I like, you know, I like the design of the buildings. I like the design of the the different One bedroom two bedroom three bedroom Arrangements, I think that's all fine I just and you know people are going to come there They're going to live there that's going to be part of their their experience And I just want them to feel that they are in a place that they really like That that that there's color. There's there's you know engagement that sort of thing And and so that's kind of where I'm coming from those are those are my comments. I'm very supportive of the project It's something that we absolutely need to have and particularly in that area I don't know enough about Plants and I'll leave that to Adam to tell me about, you know, what what will work and what will not work But that's uh, that's kind of where I am I I just want you to think a little bit about, you know, let's have some a little bit more color It's just a little bland a little flat for for me So those are my comments Great. Thank you, John Board member Sharon Thank you vice chair birch um Yeah, I want to reiterate what john said to thank the applicant team for This this very comprehensive package, especially for concept review. Um, it's great. You've gone that the level detail of proposing Lighting fixtures and trash enclosure usually have to bug people about trash enclosure. So it's great You've done it. Thank you very much. It's a Yeah, it's a it's very thorough proposal for us to to to Look at to enjoy looking at and most importantly to to react to And that's really what we're here for is to react and to have an open dialogue and conversation So thank you for giving us something very substantive to look at. Thank you also Steph. Amy. Thanks for stepping in for christine and Putting on the presentation head again Thanks very much um My comments, um, I'll start with the the architecture um It's uh, yeah, I really enjoyed the the design of the buildings that you have here and and the massing into In particular as well. I feel that um, you have a very elegant design um Modern, um, but with it's not jarringly. So uh, sometimes with modern designs. It can be almost severe yours are that it's it has very, um, logical massing. Um, and uh, the Lovely articulation. Um, it's it is interesting with it without being busy. So I think that you're, uh, you're on a very Um, uh good pathway. Um here. Um, I also feel like you're providing. Um, good, uh A relationship to your neighboring development to the east with the single family homes And you're providing, um You know, kind of a bridge from single family To multifamily to other types of development. So, um, Well done there. I I do think that john is on to something with wanting to reference the surrounding context though a little bit more Um, well, I do enjoy the elegance of your design. I do feel that it's it's it's verging on too subtle. Um, and I think that potentially, uh, your, um Not your materiality, but your your your color palette could, um, to could could help that out. Um Uh, you know, I don't necessarily want to see you know splash as a bright color anywhere. Um, you know Just for for the sake of having something flashy, but something that fits in with your your design fits in with the This surrounding context. Um, and I think that you can you can push the envelope a little bit with that. Um, You know, um, yeah be have a little bit of an adventure. Um, with uh with what you've done You have a really good base and keep pushing on it. Um Thanks for for bringing the mix of uh of units. Um, and uh The um glad to hear about the affordability and the density bonus. Um Action that's going to be happening potentially. Um It's wonderful that you're providing outdoor space for each of the units as well. Um, the uh that you've mentioned that every Unit will have a deck or a patio. Um, so everyone has some outdoor space This really gets um, especially with the affordable units getting to that dignity of design. Um, you're you're really providing some home spaces for people and you're also providing um home spaces within the actual units and then um With all the amenities that you're proposing with the site as well um And let's see here. I will get I think that's all for the architecture for the um site design. Um uh Yeah, I can definitely see that a lot of Thoughts and conversation has gone into this between, you know architects and and the landscape architect and and and just planning out the site You've got really nice connections to both. Um The Joe Rodota trail and Sebastopol road um, I think you can Encourage that a bit more with what you've done. You have this very linear site and um One of the things that I would like to see you from going from the Sebastopol road Frontage towards the highway 12 frontage. Um, it's you have a nice open entry auto court Which provides a nice entrance and announcement of the of the development um, unfortunately then that You have the the court or um of pathways and amenities in the central portion of the of the of the design But it you have the the entry court and then it ends in the building and then the amenities are a bit hidden behind everything. Um Going towards the north one of the things I would like to see you explore a bit more are ways to open The central corridor a bit more It's the mapping of the buildings that you have is is um as I said elegant and is and is very balanced I feel that the site design is a bit disjointed um, you have the the pathway is going running through the center of the of the um, the north south north south axis Um, yet they're offset in ways. I want to see views all the way through. I want to see I want to see basically I'm I want to see a a thread from one end of the um site to the other north to south south to north um And I I feel like that can be Accomplished in multiple ways either with the views with creating corridors. Um all the way through the through the site. Um, you want to Still have that some of the those areas of mystery and and and where you can turn off into secret nooks But um opening up the the central Commons a bit more. I would like to see some more more of that commons feel um, you can also Use some of those amenities that you have at the northern end of the site. Um, specifically with the mounds um, and the open areas the You know reference those in different areas of the site as well. Um, you can You've got these very discreet. Um, you know, as you mentioned the three portions of the of the site Which um, each work very well on their own. I'd like to see them talk to a little each other a little bit more. Um The the the Right in the central part of the of the of the um, the design I you you have um the the Uh buildings that are then turned on their axis and going east west and unfortunately that provides a pinch point right in the center Of the of the site. Um You know, I understand that there's a very narrow site. Um, and as I mentioned linear And so you're constrained by a lot of these things, but I would like to see a little bit more openness feel to this I'd like to see some more of the Um, the the amenities scattered around of the site as well I'm particularly thinking of of kids Where, you know, maybe they they go over to the to the mounds and there's already a group of kids over there But it and they live on the northern or the southern portion of the site And so if there's something closer to them or if there's multiple places that there are Are more areas for um both, uh, you know, uh solo interactions of the site, but then also Those provide areas for um for gathering as well um, and so I feel it that um I I enjoy the the as you mentioned pushing the parking to the perimeter of the site, but in in ways it's also mushed things right into the center um, and so, um, I'd love to see a bit more Exploration about how to open things up make them a little bit more airy and providing venues for for people to together and um have those common threads Um Uh with that, uh, it's the basketball road frontage. Um, uh, I do feel that you know, it's it's Nice to have both an in lane and an out lane ingress and egress Since you've got two of those you only have one entrance for pedestrians potentially though. Um, so there's somewhat of of the prioritizing of automobiles cars and not necessarily of of humans and human scale and walking and and um pedestrians The Joe Radota trail, um Is is a is a main highway. Um, so that's the road is highway But the Joe Radota trail is a highway directly into downtown Santa Rosa and so um people can Good can use it and should be very much encouraged to use um our interesting bike networks and trails and pathways and so um, uh, I would uh encourage some more uh exploration of those alternative forms of transportation Um That should do it for me. Um, thanks very much I am looking forward to hearing everyone else's comments Great. Thank you, Adam. We're member Wutrick Uh, yeah, thank you very much for the presentation. Um, I'm a sucker for good graphics. So it really helps sell the product here I I particularly actually really enjoyed um The architecture I do enjoy the materials that were selected in terms of the mel seam Uh, the mix of the stucco and the siding Um, I feel that it is attractive especially for that area. Um, it is Something that would really pop it feels like Um, so I don't I don't think I would really have many comments related to that um for uh the site design You know, just just based on being an accessibility guy. I do have to comment on it accessibility stuff It actually in a good way for this. Um, I do appreciate Um, it feels like things were actually pretty well thought out even at a conceptual stage Seeing that there's been thought into, um Things that I think people would typically miss Uh, providing covered parking at the accessible parking spaces That's something people would generally miss, but you're providing an equal opportunity for people to have shaded parking um I think that that's a big thought accessible routes throughout the entire space connecting trash um enclosures Um, it feels like someone, you know, if we're really looking to create spaces Provides housing for a wide array of Folks, I feel like, um, this captures it um At least from an accessibility standpoint and seeing that, you know There has been thought into that um The the only things that I would probably comment on that maybe to take a look at um There there was a comment, uh, made about Um pedestrian access to spasible road There, you know, is uh, the mixed use area next door There's a lot of retail while it might not be full right now I I feel that it would be something that could You know really Come together with the housing development like this and have an opportunity to use a retail space So being able to make sure that that pedestrian access Is not just, you know, the 48 inch walk But something that is really You know make sure we're Make sure we're Emphasizing that pedestrian access Is to be utilized here because I think it really could be um In addition to that, you know, when you bring someone on site Maybe if we can't good avoid having stamped con uh the stamp driveway in the accessible route at that craft crosswalk Maybe just a consideration there um And maybe one one thing I would just look for clarification in the future is um Checking into what the applicable standard is here. Um in terms of I had to look it up in terms of what the Density bonus would trigger in terms of just the scoping for accessible housing I believe that the density bonus Does not trigger An ADA requirement for as public housing. There's some references in here to ADA Um standards, ADA parking, ADA units Um, it might be just something to clarify in the future as to which is the applicable standard. So we're not Maybe over thinking it in the future as is this public housing or this private housing, but um Overall, I I think it's a great project. So thank you for the presentation Great. Thank you. Board Member Wutrich Board Member Carter Jones Jones Carter And here again, um, yes, I this was Very well prepared and uh, I enjoyed the presentation. It was easy to call along Um, I don't have very many comments, but I would echo one that um with adam In that I think the use of green space could be Um more spread out Um, you the uh, if you live in the very front unit and you have to go all the way to the back on the joder Joe rodado trick rodado trail Um to access the dog park. That's a long hike. Of course, you do want to exercise your dogs Um, and the other thing I was thinking is that there's um, no real hard escape for children So if you're going to have three Units with three apartments in them, you're assuming there are going to be some children Maybe some kind of play area designated play area Other than the mound kids riding bikes and That kind of thing. I don't see where that's going to happen in this complex Um Personally, I like the color scheme, but um, then you know art in uh architecture or up to everyone's uh own opinion. So Um, I like the fact that I think it would kind of blend in a little bit And I think That is all I have Great, thank you very much and to both of you. Thanks and welcome to the board You just sat in the hot seat and gave the comments. So Really appreciate it. Um I'll start my comments with um, it's always it's always interesting to work in, um You know younger suburb suburban world to suburban communities like santa rosa and try to find some context And I think grabbing on to the palm tree and saving that as a hero element in the project is fantastic. I think that we Um For those of us who have lived in sonoma county for any amount of time There's sort of some there's some landmark trees and elements that were probably planted Decades or centuries ago by farmers and and that palm tree is a is a sweet reminder of Sort of sort of that area of santa rosa and the way that things happen The story of that tree would be great to know But I think it is a fantastic entry point story and I you know, it sets the tone for me about How the applicant is is is approaching Uh developing this site in a in an area where You know, this development will actually probably start to provide some of the context that Continues on from here. So it's great to know that there's a starting point a nexus that is something that's been part of the neighborhood For a very long time So I appreciate that I am a I'm a I'm a fan of the site design But I can also I can really also See adam's point and adam has such a good eye for site design and that sort of thing I really do think that if there are some tweaks that can be made in this very constrained linear site to Open up the view corridor or or perhaps distribute some Amenity space to provide a couple More opportunities that are just a little bit different than those down the center spine that could be great But being such a constrained site I appreciate the way that this was put together I think board member Carter Jones all Jones Carter also had A good point that I don't see any hardscape Play space and you know, you've got winter to consider You've got just foggy cold weather to consider and Well, I know it's a very limited amount of space. It does seem like a tradeoff to something that was a bit more year-round Or just a different, you know, just a just a different kind of play A basketball hoop or A jungle gym that's, you know, in a little bit drier area could be good So I think I think there's a little bit of work to do maybe on amenity spaces and spreading things around But it is a very constrained site So it's it's understandable as to how you got here, but I'm sure that you'll be able to Take a look at our comments and and and perhaps make some make a couple of changes I love the things that the site, you know, the plan offers right now The floating boardwalk Around the specimen trees. I mean, I think there's some really special moments in this project that are going to be really nice amenities and and upgrades To a project that's just sort of built at grade and dropped off at the curb I think that there's some details to this project that are very very nice I appreciate The update to the plans that you did I think that this went from being a really attractive presentation on paper and a little bit of that As board member wutrick said sucker for a good presentation I love the rendering style and everything else and I think I sense the quality of the project that's being put through But the additions of the lighting plan The fencing and the trash enclosures really helped me You know want to stamp this project and say You know good good luck the zoning administrator has a good idea of what the design review board is is sharing forward as a project That we think is really well done From that standpoint I think that the inclusion of the trash enclosures and the bike enclosures under the covered parking is is really A great solution, you know, you don't have a bunch of independent spots all over the site With structures that look different. I really really like what you put forward here in this updated set of plans As to the architecture, I love the transitional style. I think it's really nice I'm echoing Adam's comments. I think about the massing And how the project sort of builds up to the three story, but it doesn't ever feel overbearing The flat roofs and the in and But but with the little shed Cannabis and those sorts of things Really really well done. It just doesn't feel like this is a contemporary project being forced into the wrong area The lighting fixture selection. I think also Lens to that it's it's it's Contemporized Classical looks so I think there's a softness to it, but it's also very up to date And so I just I think it's very integrated. I like the fencing design I love the enclosures for the patios and the with the the horizontal board fence with smaller openings There's a lot of detail here that I think is really speaks to a A project that's going to have residents feel very very Have have some sense of pride in their in their community here I'm comfortable with the color Palette as it stands now. I I don't know if it's a matter of taking some of the more Neutral contemporary colors and creating maybe a maybe switching up the foreign background to create some variety I think that it would be important to send The applicant team forward with a with the idea that there's some flexibility around color It doesn't have to be crazy, but there's a comment that don't you know, you know, just Don't don't let this be too bland and if there's an opportunity to Create some variation between buildings or create a little bit of variety that that is a touch point for residents to sort of Have a feel for their project have a feel for their home as they enter To go ahead and do that so um I think those those are all of my comments What I would what I would further say is that I think this is again a very well thought out project I think it's really been put together In the development team and the architect the landscape architect This is going to be a fantastic project. So we want to see it get through and get done and So that wraps up my comments I would At this point, I guess I'm sorry. I'm I I only chair part of a meeting about every six months So I think at this point we put together a couple of kind of Consolidated comments for the client to go forward and we use two different types of comments. We use considers and shells uh, considers are you know a suggestion and they go forward to the Zoning administrator as did you look at this what the design review board said? We also have shells which are you shall Do this And these get into the public hearing comments as well, but um, I I would like to start with maybe consider A varied A more varied Color palette I'm not sure if that covers that Adequately Any thoughts from the board? I think from my standpoint that that would You know raise the question and leave it very general. Um, you know, just consider the varied color palette and that's That's good as far as I can tell I've got I've got a point of order I don't know that in conceptual things we would talk about considers and shells That would be more appropriate to when we're going to talk about a permit So I would I would I would recommend that we don't go there Okay What I would recommend is anything that we've said with respect to What we'd like is there anything from the applicant's perspective that's onerous or something that they uh, you know can't uh Can't deal with So I that would be my recommendation is How's your public you're probably right john and i'm sorry i'm rusty i'll tell you Here's here are the points that I heard raised just as a checklist. Let's do this um, the more varied color palette was one item that came up more than once um Opening view corridors and spreading the amenities Through the site was another was another comment that was made and brought up by more than one uh board member um and the other item that came up more than once was to Upgrade or enhance the pedestrian access at sabastopol road Uh to prioritize pedestrians I mean that's just to just to boil down what I think came through in the comments From more than you know one board member those seem like the three items that I heard um, obviously this meeting is attended by the applicant it's on tape Um, I I just I can't remember if we do considers and shells for concept reviews But those are the three things that I've heard at this point and I would love to hear the applicant's uh Approach to those things if there's anything there that they want to discuss more before we go forward Um, can I also add to that list the sorry Can I also add to that list the um hardscape for children? Yes, I think that's really important. Yep Michael I just one thought um That I wanted to bring up is I mysteriously brought up the setback question in the front. I realized I didn't uh Made a quick comment on that. Um, I just wanted to make certain that the uh That that sabbatical road frontage um is One, you know secure, which is why you're doing this the six foot open fencing But also to keep it friendly um and open to the uh to the community as well Um, so just to keep that in mind to not Completely close off the site so the the five items that we've got are considering um Some variations in in color Um more open view corridors and spreading amenities around the site Um upgrading the pedestrian access at sabbatical road uh considering uh Potentially more of some hardscape some varied play areas for kids including some hardscape and uh making sure that we continue with a secure but friendly entry from sabbatical road If that is uh a good list there, I'd love to hear thank you I see dan hails hand raised from the applicant team dan Yeah, thank you everyone. Um I also appreciate I guess they were positive comments on our Thoroughness. Well, I'm going to have to go back and thank vice chair birch. He did reach out to us and Encourages us on what additional information we might provide to help you guys provide A comprehensive review and in comments, so it goes both ways So thank you chair birch for giving us some feedback and again, thank you all for your comments. It's always fun Since they fun it's insightful When you go we present your project in front of Someone who hasn't been involved with it and they have a fresh perspective Uh, you know, we've been looking at this for a year and so sometimes you do get a little tunnel vision So I think many of the comments were quite insightful especially chair sharing on your site planning comments Um opening up I wrote down open up the open spaces, you know is And make and connect the threads and that's that was my kind of summary of as I was taking notes. So I don't particularly have any big issues with the five items that um, you have outlined I think the our biggest challenge. Um that will work with is is the Open spaces and the view corridors and and maybe connectivity between Different amenity spaces but we'll work on it and If there's another either the client at mordo or landscape architect who has a different perspective Please raise your hand, but I think we can certainly work with these These items that you have presented to us and and we really appreciate your comments Great. Thank you very much. Yeah, this is a really complex. I just you know, I wanted to make sure we Apologize and and you guys you all understand that we've been going through a transition since our Since our council elections and board members coming and going and that we've had a a little bit of an issue with quorum But having had a chance to take a quick look and understand what I could ask You you to come forward with to make this a really Really exceptional concept review application, uh, you guys came through in a big way and it's Really makes it easy to appreciate and and comment on the project So we need this housing. We need this We need these types of projects. I hope that you have a smooth path to realizing this and and getting a shovel in the ground and getting going so Good luck and we'll look forward to seeing this as Project get underway. Thank you very much. Thank you If you all Great, so that said closes 8.1 the concept design review and it moves us to item 9 adjournment, which I told drew I could handle so he could Take the rest of his evening off So at this point, uh, welcome, you know again and thank you to the new board members It is wonderful to see All these faces on the screen and I am just thrilled to be serving with you So, um, I'm drew it drew would share the same if anybody's more stressed out about it than me It's definitely drew so I'm going to just pinch it and say drew is happier here And uh, we'll see you all in a couple of weeks And we're adjourned Thanks everyone. Good night. Thank you Welcome


So, today the topic is cyber defence, but if you allow me then I would maybe start from a more philosophical notion of what actually is cyberspace and how exactly we should treat this new domain. Cyberspace is something very new for all of us, for the governments especially and for the policy makers in the governments especially. It has been very technical domain, there is good experience around amongst the technical communities and I see many practitioners in the room and I'm very glad that we have more and more practitioners also becoming policy makers in this field. But as a public policy maker for almost 20 years I see quite interesting similarities with other new fields in cyber because we lack institutions domestically in cyber as we lack them possibly in some of the areas before. We also lack the proper coordination quite often domestically when we try to put together our cyber projects nationally. And then we lack skilled people, we lack good training programmes and then we lack awareness. So I think these are the major topics we all have to work hard and that will make in the end our cyber, let's say future or our cyber project much more resilient. Because we cannot really speak about the defence in traditional terms when we speak about cyber issues. Cyber as such is a very non-state concept, it's IT technology in a way innovation by the private sector and civil society entusias that has gone into internet in the last decades. So this is a very anti-government concept. Governments are not easy to deal with these kind of asumeric networking type of new entities because the governments are more hierarchical, governments rely on certain procedures and processes and cyberspace is something new for the governments. And therefore the policy responses that we have to choose have to be a little different than we are used to in more traditional areas, especially when it comes to national security and defence. So I would say that what we need to do in cyberspace in order to make it more resilient or defend our organisations, our computers, our information systems is to enhance the capacities at different levels. So when we talk about the national level then we need a very strong bottom part of the pyramid which is the civilian non-state strong cyber resilience capacities. It's 80% of private sector that runs our businesses and we know that none of the governments is powerful enough to tell majority of the critical providers what exactly should be done locally in order to protect the critical services running. So this has to be a private partnership and it has to be a project that involves all the private actors. Then also cyberspace is not hierarchical, cyberspace is a network. In order to have a good resilient structure, a good crisis management structure, a good defence strategy we have to start thinking as a network. It's network against network. It's not the network against hierarchy because I'm very sorry but hierarchy will lose. And this is something that we learned in 2007 in Estonia that this was the network of non-state actors that helped to fend off the attacks. It was not a government agency. It was not one organisation in a country. It was a network of different organisations that coordinated. And that's how they could resist for three weeks of serious DDoS attacks. So when it comes to a more policy response what we have seen so far, then I think European Union provides a very interesting example of different very resilient national governmental cyber models. We can see at least three or four different models now emerging inside of the European Union by the different regions, different countries there. And in the end, every nation in the world has to find its own cyber model to become more defended and more resilient in this space. What we have in EU right now, we can observe the Nordic strong voluntary public-private partnership cooperation model which also is possibly enhanced by the cultural, institutional and organisational traditions of Nordic nations where I think Estonia belongs to because we have had almost 1,000 years of the certain culture of holding the society together. And this has helped us now to define ourselves also in cyber area. Then we have a more intelligence-led gentleman agreement model which is the UK model where certain entities have good cooperation, coordination and agreements already that this coordination dates back to cold war times when the critical infrastructure was important and now this has been extended to cyber ratios. Then we have a third model which is more top-town regulatory model. This more dirigist model possibly is that continental European, central European or sometimes people say more French model but I don't think that we should associate this with one country. So there you could see them feel that we should regulate, we should tell the private sector what to do and how exactly to do it. So these kind of tendencies you see as well. So as you know the EU proposal for cyber directive is still in the European parliament right now and the policy makers are still deciding what kind of model and how and when this EU legislation will come out. So what this legislation possibly should achieve is a little more unified cyber resilience across the European Union because we have quite big differences between different regions and between different countries in the EU right now. So to wrap up the national part of my presentation and before I start with some comments on international part I would say that when it comes to national defence and national security then the successful national cyber defence model is always also multi-stakeholder model. It has to be civilian military cooperation that it is based on. It should have involvement of the private sector. It should have the support from broad civilian base and possibly the best advice would be to have good national exercise with all different national agencies and organisations involved and start doing it as often as possible in cyber and then your model comes together. So if you are looking for advice in this national part. The second very important part to make cyberspace more stable is to have a good international cyber policy. In cyberspace what we have seen in last decades is still it's a baby policy area I would call it. It's not comparable even with more traditional international policies where we know what to do. We have some sort of agreements between the governments. We have the clear understanding of the behaviour of the biggest actors in cyber which are doing the first steps. So it's good very glad news that yesterday night actually there was a very important set of cyber norms agreed to OSCE which is the organisation for security and cooperation in Europe on what exactly the countries are supposed to be doing in cyberspace. So we have the first set of cyber norms now agreed by almost 50 countries or participating states as they call themselves there. So I think this is a very great achievement and I'm very glad that this happened it's going to be a very good model globally because OSCE as we know has a large number of countries and we hope that the same cyber norms approach will be taken also by other important regional security organisations like ASEAN regional forum and where China also is a part and this is a big win for the diplomatic community internationally that we have the first set of cyber norms now agreed. What is this set of cyber norms? What exactly the states then agreed? They now agreed that they start talking on cyber business to each other officially because so far it has happened between some of the partners sometimes with some success in some cases but there is no good model or no good idea how exactly we should carry out this kind of cyber information exchanges or what should we do when cyber crisis hits us? Who should we call in another country in FIWON 2? So everything we have had so far was basically informal. Now there is a first form a little more formalised norm agreed between the countries so and it's still political military field but hopefully the norms, the cyber norms will at some point also involve more multi-stakeholder community. So the second step that we need to do internationally is to make sure that rule of law and the existing laws, not new laws apply in cyberspace. There are some calls for new treaties and new laws from now and sometimes in bigger international organisations and we the cyber people don't think that new laws can fix cyberspace, we have to apply the existing ones. We have the Budapest Convention for Cybercrime to address problems related to criminal activities in cyberspace. We have the International Humanitarian Law that has said very long time ago the principles of guiding or of behaviour of the states during the conflicts. So this just has to apply now to cyberspace because it really doesn't matter how do I hit you, I need to follow the same moral principles, right? So and then we have the other international laws like human rights laws and others that should also apply in cyberspace. So as was mentioned you already before by our US colleague we need to keep internet free and open and this has been a big debate during last year how exactly we do it and we possibly need a little better coordination between the like-minded countries and also not so like-minded countries to convince that the current model where the private sector is in the lead is exactly what we need for the future innovation and the economic growth. And this is our let's say big goal for the next coming years and how we actually convince the countries that are just very poor or not very resourceful in technology field or field that they are on the different side of the digital divide. So I think what we really have to now concentrate on is the capacity building and to find the right way to do it is also very important. Maybe we should start asking the countries that are still in the beginning of their technology development what exactly should be done to help them and how to make it more resilient already from the outset because they should not repeat our mistakes that we put all the systems up and now we start securing them. Maybe it's possible for them to have a little more resilient elements already in before they develop those systems. Capacity building is one of the areas which is possibly the biggest priority for the EU external action service because development 80 is our traditional niche. We have earmarked some funds for the next five years for this project and we are going to find the model that works for us in the European Union and of course we should coordinate this globally with our partners. So how we actually can bring together the development community and cyber community is still a question. The second question is to actually have a good understanding on the priorities in third countries what should be achieved there and also the question would be how private sector would factor into this project. So we try to organize a series of workshops and events to answer this question in next year and this will be our absolute priority to make cyberspace much more secure. Thank you.