Live from San Francisco, it's theCUBE.  Hi, welcome back to theCUBE. We are live in San Francisco at Moscone Center at the AWS Summit and I'm Lisa Martin joined by co-host Jeff Frick. We're very excited to have the chief architect and co-founder of Next Door, Prakash Jannikaraman on the program. Welcome. Thank you for having me. You did. For those of you who missed the keynote this morning, Prakash, you did a really fantastic keynote in the session that Werner did and I loved how you positioned what Next Door is. If there's anyone out there that actually doesn't know, give us, for those who didn't see the keynote, just how you positioned it and talk to us about what you guys are doing, how you've achieved 70% of US neighborhoods covered over 135,000 neighborhoods in the US. You're expanding globally. Give us in a few minutes this backstory on Next Door. Yeah, so we think of Next Door as sitting kind of alongside Facebook, Twitter and LinkedIn. People are using Facebook to communicate with their friends and family all over the world and Twitter to connect with people with whom they share common interests. And despite having hundreds of Facebook friends and thousands of Twitter followers in my own neighborhood, I only knew a couple of my neighbors and it's sort of unfortunate. Your neighbors are a great resource that you should know in a local context. And so we feel like Next Door is bringing back a sense of communities in the neighborhood by connecting people in the medium that we use today, which is this virtual medium of online social networking. And so we kind of sit alongside of those. And as you think about the difference between what Facebook has been able to do or an Instagram or a Snapchat, they really leverage existing connections. And when most people don't know their neighbors, we have our work cut out for us because we need to go build those connections and once those connections are built, they're really, really valuable. All of a sudden, you didn't know how to find a local electrician or a handyman or how to reunite with the lost pet or what happened with this rash of break-ins in the neighborhood or who do you go to if there's a natural disaster that's happening in your community? How do you band together? How do you even communicate with other people? And so we think we're bringing that basic connectivity to these neighborhoods. What was the secret sauce? Because obviously you can't just authorize integration to my contacts by definition, they're not in my contacts. So how did you kind of crack that code? There were a couple of things. So number one was we made a very deliberate decision. We'll get to why this was important to verify each of our members as being actual residents of a neighborhood community. In our parlance, a neighborhood is really a geographically bounded region. Every single neighborhood in the next door, Canada, is started by one member. And the member draws the neighborhood boundaries and then subsequent members have to- They draw the boundaries. They do. They define it. That's right. Every member that joins has to actually prove that they are residents of the community and that raises trust. And all these neighborhoods have grown because of word of mouth.  It's a great place for us to connect. I just heard something interesting that happened on next door, but then we also use a variety of different mechanisms to invite people that are a little unusual for internet companies. For example, we allow our members to send out postcard invitations because again, they don't have phone numbers. They don't have emails or electronic correspondence. So we've had to resort to some non-traditional types of marketing to get the word out about next door. Don't share any secrets, but what percentage of new members come through a postcard sent by a neighbor? Well, not isolating postcards. The vast majority of our members are coming in because of a referral from another member of which postcards are one of those mechanisms. Or one piece. And then with all apps and stuff, there's kind of the moment, right? The CNN moment, whatever, where things kind of cast. Is there a particular type of activity in the neighborhood that is the one that kind of catalyzes people when you get that little spike? Well, it depends. In a lot of different cases, I remember an example from really the early days of the company. A community in Woodside, California, which is just right down the road from here, a small child in that neighborhood had developed meningitis. And meningitis, if you don't know, is hugely contagious. It's really bad news. And so lots and lots of members got the word out about this and that brought new members in because they're saying, well, wait a minute, what do I do about meningitis and like, do we need to get immunizations? Do we need to do something else? Do we need to quarantine our kids? And so sometimes it's bad news like that. In other cases, it's good news. It's about neighborhood events. It's about bringing people together. One of our very first neighborhoods organized a Halloween party, a Halloween parade in their neighborhood. And they use Nextdoor to organize the entire thing. And they had like 50% participation in the neighborhood. It was a small neighborhood of 90 households. But to see all the kids and them taking pictures and publishing them on Nextdoor, it created this connectivity that just didn't exist before. And that's such a great point because we are so used to being connected with everything and we think we're so connected we all have over 500 LinkedIn connections and Twitter followers and Facebook friends. But it's very abstracted. It actually can be very isolating. And so it seemed like it probably was like a no-brainer from an investment perspective. You go, this is the, as you said in your keynote, paraphrase, this is the original social network. So talk to us about how you've built that on AWS and how you've leveraged the power of AWS and the technologies to gain what you have done so far. It's interesting because prior to starting this company I was at Google and we always felt like one of our technology advantages at Google was that we had near infinite computing resource and that the computing resources were abstracted away from the developers so that they could just go in and build applications and not need to worry about what actually powered those applications under the hood. You said I needed some RAM, I needed some disk, I need some CPU, and boom, you're off to the races. And so coming out of Google, and this is a long time ago now, in 2008, seeing that AWS was just getting started with EC2 and S3 and that the playing field was leveled for developers in such a way that you no longer had to rack and stack servers, you didn't need to have a physical data center, you didn't have people managing that data center and that you could use hardware as software, really. You could interface with it as software that was hugely powerful. And so we started out on EC2 and S3 and over time, and as we fast forward to today, we're using almost 30 different AWS services, including DynamoDB, ECS, Redshift, Kinesis, and so all of these components fit together in running our business. Right, early lines, right, for AWS, it's a data center as an API is one of my favorite little lines, but what are the, so security, all that stuff, we're kind of done talking about security for public cloud. One of the things that's still is out there is, at some point, you know, you rent, rent, rent, and at some point you pass a milestone where it's more economical to buy. Clearly, you guys didn't buy. Netflix hasn't bought, there's plenty of cases, but from your point of view as a founder and a businessman and also an operator, when you looked at that, has that ever come up in your discussion as your Amazon bills get bigger and bigger and bigger, and if so, kind of what's the internal discussion and why are you where you are today? So we, like a lot of startups, we really value speed and we want to focus on the things that we're really good at and the things that we're good at are building great products and so we are so advantaged by the fact that we do not have to manage our own infrastructure that we can use these component parts from which to build our applications and nowhere is this more apparent than in prototyping new features, right? When you don't necessarily know if something's going to work, you don't want to go make a big investment in procuring resources for that.  And so for us, it's a TCO, total cost of ownership type of question. And along with kind of having on-premises, data centers and infrastructure comes overhead for maintenance and having teams that do that and right now, for all of these neighborhoods that we support, 135,000 neighborhoods in the U.S., we only have two people that manage our underlying infrastructure. Two DevOps folks. And how many people do you have in the whole company? Just as the... The entire company is about 150 people and we have 60 of them in engineering. So we're a really, really, really lean team and we're supporting massive scale with that small team because of the help of something like AWS and this would have never been possible 10 years ago. And you'd rather spin that next marginal dollar on another developer or marketing or sales or community or something than a piece of metal in a rack. We want to put that money towards making a better user experience for our users and whether that means going into new communities in places where we aren't already or improving engagement in communities where we already have the product, in either case, that's a better dollar spent for us. Right, right. So along those lines, how do you do that? How are you taking user feedback and determining kind of what the next steps are even within the U.S. But also is there, as Andy Jassy actually talked about in his fireside chat, the geos that they're expending into, I think they're in 16 now, is there maybe a model to kind of follow along where AWS has footprint, but I'd love to know what that customer engagement is to help really refine that user experience. Yeah, there's a few different ways that we get customer feedback. One is sort of implicit and so we have lots of data that we collect and look at and try and understand like what features are really popular, what features are taking off, what features aren't really as popular as others and we do a lot of A, B and split testing to understand how these features perform. But the other way is just good old fashioned qualitative feedback from our users and so we have a couple of different ways that we do that. One, we have a neighborhood operations team that's always in contact with our communities. We have leads in our communities that serve as sort of moderators and the folks that manage the community's activity and so we lean on them heavily for feedback and then we have a national leads forum where they all come together and they exchange their own experiences building their community. And from that, it's a treasure trove of information where we communicate with them, we participate in those forums and then we build the features that we think that they want. It's funny this theme of competing for speed. You're competing against time. That has come up a number of times today and Werner's keynote, you mentioned it. It came up again in Andy's fireside chat and I thought it was interesting in your keynote piece how the measure of speed and deployment has so radically changed. It used to be one push a day was crazy and you talked about a concept of democratization of deployment, which I thought was interesting because in the big data world we're always talking about democratizing big data, getting it out of the hands of the data sciences, let everybody make better decisions based on data, but you talked about democratization of deployments which I've never heard before. I wonder if you could share that story because again, one a day that's no longer the measure of success. No, so the way that we think about this and the reason that I call it democratization of deployment is as you invest more in automation and you turn down the kind of batching of releases together, batches of commits together, you can now isolate their impact and you can move faster by doing more frequent smaller releases and part of that is each developer is responsible for their own code going out to production and so what we've invested in is a lot of automation that makes it possible for any one of our developers to push a button, a metaphorical button and actually push code out to the site, observe how that code performs and then we can move on to the next one and so in the old world, people would often hire a release engineer and the release engineer's job was really to coordinate all of the activities of the developers, build packages, get them staged and ready for QA and the overhead on that just does not scale well as a company gets bigger and bigger and so what we've said is listen developers, you guys are responsible, you guys know how your code works, let's make it possible for you to minimize the amount of time between you committing a piece of code and that code being live to our users and so that's what I kind of was talking about in terms of democratization of the release process, is making sure that everyone could do it. But what I thought just was fascinating is on one hand everybody's talking about smaller, marginal units of compute and store, et cetera. Yeah. And yet on the other hand, you were basically doing, basically duplicating your entire production environment and kind of this red black strategy, build it up, make that one go, crash the other one, build up a fresh one, make that one go, crash the old one and leveraging what are basically infinite resources behind the AWS screen in a really innovative way that you could never do that with your own hardware. Well, you know, a lot of credit goes to Netflix. We saw a presentation that they did a few years ago at Reinvent that inspired us to build our own kind of version of the red black deployment system. But again, because these resources are ephemeral, you can spin them up and shut them down, that's what makes any of that possible and so it's really, really awesome for us because we are moving fast. In fact, I don't even know how many deploys we've done today, but every time a deploy is done, we get a message in a Slack channel that says, hey, somebody pushed and it says who the conductor of the train that actually pushed out the commit is and so you have full accountability in this living log of what's going on in your production environment and anyone can do it. Even our interns are allowed to do it and so it's really, really empowering for our developers to be able to do that. I was going to say that was the word that I heard when you were talking earlier, it's really this empowerment. Absolutely. Which is huge for productivity and speaking of productivity, you guys have really achieved some pretty significant technology achievements that are presumably in this feedback circle going back and making the experience for your mother-in-law, your mom, probably my mom, even better. What are some of those technology achievements? You mentioned a few of them on the keynote. Love for our guests to hear some of those big things that you've achieved. Yeah, I think when we think about the technology stack, there are two things that we're trying to do. Number one is build for our developers so that they can push features out faster, but then the second and the most important is that we improve the user experience for our users and most recently we've done a few different things. Number one is we've introduced this concept around personalization and it's very lightweight at this point where we can try and understand what is your experience? If you're not a parent, do you really care about play dates and all of the information about kids? If you don't have a pet, do you care about what's going on with pets? Do you not like the classified ads? And so we're starting to look at data and this is where the big data stack becomes very interesting and say, okay, let's see if we can match the content in your neighborhood to the things that you're interested in. And so we're making a lot of investments in that area. And then the second is we're making a lot of investments in search because we think a lot of people will come to Nextdoor with an intent in mind. They'll say, hey, you know what? I think I need to find a handyman or a plumber. And what's the natural way to do that is to go into a search box and say handyman, right? And look for handyman in your local community. And so we're making a lot of investments on both fronts that will make it easier for our users to get connected to the information that's most important to them. The personalization is so key because we sort of, as consumers and as people who expect things immediately, we want what we want, we want what's relevant and we know a lot of companies, whether they're banks or whatnot, retailers spend a tremendous amount of time in dollars investing to know how do I make this experience unique to Jeff or unique to Prakash or unique to Lisa. And so I think that there's so much capabilities. I have to ask you though, you must have the most connected neighborhood, you must have the best block parties. Me personally? Yeah. You know, it's interesting that the product takes on the identity of each of our communities. And so in an urban community like in San Francisco, I'll say that I still don't know all of my neighbors, but it's really, really comforting to know that I know by name and by face who they are, even if I haven't had in-person interactions. But one of the things that we always talk about, which is pretty cool and it's happened to me in my own community is we talk about this concept of bits that move atoms, right? And using our platform, which is really exchanging information electronically to facilitate in-person interactions and those are the atoms. And it's definitely happened to me where I've seen someone on the street and I just say hello, right? Because I'm like, oh yeah, yeah, I saw your post. Did you get your dog back? Were you able to sell that television? And so it's really interesting that this is actually happening. And ultimately that's our goal, is to bring back that sense of community to neighborhoods and to make neighborhoods stronger and safer. And the way you do that is by connecting people in the community, right? Absolutely, absolutely. Neighborhood walks on steroids kind of, right? Totally, yeah. Yeah, absolutely. It's fantastic and I'm sure they would be blown away if they knew they were talking to the guy behind next door. One of them. One of them. One of them. Thank you so much for sharing your story with us on theCUBE. Thank you very much for having me. It's so exciting to get back to the original social network and really kind of, I love that. I think people might even be learning how to write again rather than type. I don't know how you're reaching there, yeah, yeah. Well Prokash, thank you so much. Continued success with Nextdoor. Thank you very much. We so much appreciate your time here. From my co-host, Jeff Frick, I'm Lisa Martin, you've been watching theCUBE. Don't go anywhere, we'll be right back.


Welcome it's the get credentials binding project. And this is the second of June at 730 am India standard time. Thanks very much for being here remember we abide by the Jenkins code of conduct. So agenda topics I had questions from the last meeting. We have a task to update Jenkins.io with a more detailed project description and then how things are going with private key with passphrase. How things going private key without passphrase and username password binding prototype on windows. Any other topics for the agenda. So Rishabh you had mentioned that you had some questions are there specific topics you wanted to. Yes, they are around the conversion for my of the open SSH private key around I just have few questions around this topic. So, by that you mean this this material here and decode. Okay, so that's probably best for harsher to answer rather than for me to attempt to answer. That should be. So, should I ask. Yes, yes, go ahead. Okay, so I was reading about open SSH private key and to understand that we want to convert it to a pen format. We want to convert it into a pen format because we know that open SSH versions and bouncy castle API does not support different open SSH versions. So we want to standardize that by converting it into a pen format. Yeah, I mean open SSH now generates keys by default in a new format that is proprietary. So, and the bouncy castle API only supports PEM format, although there are a lot of the formats but bouncy castle only supports PEM so the conversion part has to be specific on the PEM format. Okay, so. So my next question is that, and I'm not sure if this is the right one but my limited knowledge with families that I've always seen certain tickets and primary dot x 519 certificates to pen format it. And about private keys, what we try to do here is that we want to. Especially talking about an open SSH encrypted private key. We try to decrypt it and then convert it into a pen format. Is that what we do. So decrypting will be like when the SSH private key is encrypted by a passphrase. So it will be what we are trying to do is encode it into another format. We won't be decrypting decrypting would be something like showing the underlying structure of that. It is in asni.one something but open SSH don't support that. So your question when I was looking at the question you had in your chat you were saying that to convert it into pen format you need two things and that is the encryption algorithm. And you mentioned one more thing right. It's a format type. format type. Yeah. So, so. Yes. So SSH key gen does not can does not output cannot output pen format. So if you have written the command right it will this command will output the format but if we don't use the option, then it will not it but it will output in a new open SSH format. That's correct. I was just I was just trying to understand what the process is there and why we're doing that. I was also looking at how this could be done and yeah this command can do it and we can convert it into pen. So I wonder if you're asking a similar question to what I was asking in the doc to my understanding is we're trying to decrypt the. We're talking about a password and key right or passphrase key. Yes, yes. So I think my understanding is the reason we want to decrypt it and then re encrypt in another format is so that we don't have to pass a key with a passphrase down to get CLI so that we have to like do terminal dance stuff. So this will convert it to one without a passphrase, and then you don't have to worry about the terminal problems. Yeah, that's one reason also we don't have to create any additional file for storing the passphrase as well as it will be decrypted so there's only the key, and there's no need to use the passphrase. Okay, yeah makes sense to go and I think, I think that's what I mean. I'm a little bit astonished actually that there isn't a trivial way to convert an open SSH private key in Java but I gather that you've searched and haven't found any way to do that. Oh, well I. Is that question for me. No no it was for it was for harsh. Yeah, Mark, I, I looked in, I mean I looked for in bouncy castle java docs and j CA java docs but I couldn't find much information on that because the format they support. I mean, the functionality they provide is basically around the algorithms. The first we need to know the algorithm encryption algorithm we have generated the key in. If we have not been able to figure that out I mean we won't be able to perform other operations. Okay yeah I just, and I see what looks like a commercial implementation called Maverick. Yeah, I don't see any open source implementation. So yeah, I just, that's that's really quite impressive, but I think you've you've hit it that's. I just wanted to share a small thing. I have one strike. Sorry. So I have one strike converting RSA encrypted private key into a PK CS eight format private key programmatically. So I, I, I checked that code once I was looking at what her ship was saying that we need the algorithm as well and I, he's correct. Yes, I, that's, but I'm not sure if it requires two things, the only thing I remember to convert it. And I'm seeing my code here is that I need the algorithm with by which the private key the input private key is encrypted and after that. Yeah, that was what I used to. So, and you say work with RSA did it also work with. Does it also work with. ED 25. 25519 EC DSA and possibly DSA. It's, I'm quite interested. This is a new format you are new only a four or five year old format used by open BSD so the open SSH people. And this is a predecessor I think to it. And this one is an old and I believe almost deprecated. So, so I am using the Java security package. And this is key factory, which I have used to do this but I have to look into it to be able to answer that question. Okay. Because if I remember correctly. Oh, go ahead. Yeah, sorry. Okay, so the key factory I had, I have worked on that as well. I mean, there is a Java doc which tells which type of algorithms could be used in different types of classes. So there I mean to three to four algorithms are there in key factory, then there is a key generator as well. And they have five to six algorithms for that. Yeah, yeah, so the way it is working is that we have to provide the algorithm. Yeah, yeah, and the key spec and that key spec would be the type of format we want to convert our input key into that is what I can see. Yeah, if I if I share three lines of phone is essentially captured and share the chat. Yeah, I mean key spec is not a problem because it's an interface and there is no method implement method implementation or to override. So I have done that I have implemented a class I have created a class which implement the key spec and and created method specific for our purpose but the main problem for me is to is the algorithm and the format. Okay. How should I think that there are two, so I can see two implementation of those specs one is for pkcs8 and one is for x509. So yes, maybe it's not for. Maybe x509 encoded key space must be for the pen format. Okay, that is not always necessary. Well, but, but harsh it didn't you said that the challenge was identifying the encryption but isn't, isn't the encryption. Isn't the algorithm encoded. In the heading of the private key file. No, no. No, if you see the dsa one way says though, RSA definitely does it says begin RSA private key. I just looked at one of my RSA private keys. If you if you create an ED 25519, maybe even a CDSA. I think it'll include a header that looks like this. Yeah. Also, but I think the old ones just show what you're kind of showing there. So these that I'm showing are not passphrase protected. That's correct. So these, these are not passphrase protected but yeah you're right if I grab the one that is passphrase protected. Oh, and it says begin RS. Yeah, mine says begin RSA private key. And then it continues with this. Actually stole that that line from Stack Overflow instead of using my own private key. So you choose the specific format algorithm. So I think by default it does not encrypted with RSA. So I, I chose to pick an ED 25519. In fact, GitHub is actually changing their direction to their instructions to use those as well. Yay. That's the key ever good choice. Whew. BSD people are really serious open BSD people are really serious about their crypto. I mean really serious. Yeah, so you pass dash T. So, here's the new. Here's the GitHub that guidance, and you basically pass dash T and you specify ED 25519. I could have put that in the doc, sorry. If you're in the dark ages, you have to use this other thing. That's the dark ages you guess you guess for darkness lies very good. Okay so so but but back to the question I thought that this heading was was a known quantity to determine the type of the algorithm used to encrypt what you're saying it's in general not. Whoops, why did you just change my or ED 25 because it's supposed to be like this. Oh, so picky. Okay, God, sorry. Very good. Okay, so it actually does have RSA doesn't say open SSH. That's why I changed it. Well okay so then you're using an RSA key not a not a an ED 2559. I'm fairly certain that this is ED 25519. Okay what version of open SSH you're in. Let me check. Mine's 8.4. And it just calls itself begin open SSH private key. And the next one is so I guess harsher what we're what we're illustrating is that there are many, many ways to do this. The second one your second and third line look like mine. I think that's the critical bit. Second and third line this one. No, I don't have those lines. Nope, my, my, but let me generate a new one just to be sure. Okay, sure. Yeah, I can do the same. I just generated one. And yeah I just generated this one. ED 255 and I solemnly promised never to use it so I'm going to paste pretty much the whole thing. Okay, so here it is this is the. Whoops. ED 25519 public key looks like this. All one line. Okay, we're going to do micro font. Whereas public private key. Oops, has a heading that looks like this. And this is a past race protected key. So I'm not sure what to say about. Now, that's an ED 255, 25519 protected past race protected private key. Let me try the same thing with RSA. Can we say that all 25519 protected private keys are always going to be like this. I was also under the assumption that the header would include the information about the algorithm. Yeah, I think. Because if we can consolidate that fact then yeah. I mean I can I can certainly do checks we've got I've got access to lots of systems where I can do the checks to to see what format they take. So so that's that's a survey that well and actually harsh it you've got access to Centos you said right so you could you could certainly check the boundaries you've gotten. You've got a new boom to system or a Debian that would be relatively modern and then Centos if you've got Centos seven. It's about as old as we're going to get. Please feel free to laugh at me. You're correct. Mark. I was on the wrong machine. Oh good. I like that. Okay, that's a relief actually. Yes, I was like what because I saw what you said and I was like, yeah, he's right here. What's going on. Machine. So let me check for just okay so you did 25519. Okay, and then now even. Okay, so I don't see the property type for online but it may be because of my version number my even for RSA. This one, I think is a pass phrase. And I don't remember which cypher used. I may have used. Yeah, I think I just used a strong. Okay. Yeah, you just use 1096 bits probably. Okay. Yeah, and so harsh it I'm not sure we're helping much in terms of you've got, we've we've got a challenge here the challenge is still how do we deal with passphrase protected private keys. I think you've is your sense that you've found a solution through the convert to PEM and then use bouncy castle or I assume that'll require that you call SSH key gen from the command line. Yeah, I was previously doing this only, but I mean this is not this is a tentative solution and the user might not have the SSH key gen utility or the open SSH key gen utility. They might have you just got the private key and just pasted it in the Jenkins credentials. So, I mean this is just a tentative solution SSH key gen. Yeah, and I'm, I'm, I'm open to that tentative solution even now because it's perfectly okay for us to say you must have I think it's okay anyway for us to say you need to have SSH installed on your image so that we can use it. So I mean, actually, I guess I should say it differently. They already have to have SSH installed at least enough of SSH that that get can use SSH for transport. So I think this is actually pretty safe if even if you had to do it long term. It's not not especially pretty forking a separate process to do conversion but we could conceive the limit the number of times we do it. So, is that key that ID, IDS RSA key on the convert to PEM format is that like, so I did notice that if you use the ED 2550 25519, it wants to store your key in ID. Sorry. You can underscore ED 25519 as a default rather than ID RSA. Right. And that's type of it. Well, for ED 25519, you just changed the file name. Yeah. Yeah, this one, this one is the example here I took as how to do it with an RSA key, you'd use the same thing but change it to do it with with ID, ED 25519. Oh, interesting. Okay, do convert to PEM can't convert on my system anyway, can't convert an open BSD format and ED 25519. But it can convert an RSA. That looks an awful lot like an RSA key. Okay, so how should you're you're exploring the right place. This looks complicated. So any other questions on crypto and crypto algorithms. I was thinking if we cannot figure this out, we can fall back to the previous method where that we are using in the client client plugin right now. Yeah, and that was the answer the terminal prompt with a separate file. That's what your meaning I think isn't harsh it. Yeah, like there will be no how many like three separate files for passes protected, protected keys, if using it SSH. Yeah, I think I think that's reasonable we've got a you've got a plan as to how to handle it. We would prefer the simpler we would prefer the more elegant way. If the elegant way doesn't work, then we can fall back to the the old way. Okay. Any other topics on go ahead. So I mean like we are are we asking the user to convert the key for us. Or do we have to use the like there's a launch command option is well in the client plan. I have not tested it but using that we have to use the perform the SSH operation to convert the key into pamphlet. And the problem that the plug in would do the conversion. Because the user already has private keys stored in their system. Yes, so the conversion will be using SSH. region. Yes. And the problem is SSH key gen. So certain key types fails for fails with for ED 25519. So it can't do a convert to PEM. And I assume that maybe because there isn't a PEM format to support the open BSD format. Okay, so next steps then for you harsh it what's what's your plan next. I was holding this back and I was working on the I mean the user password credential binding for windows. Oh, okay. So that's a good one to report on. Should we go there and hear how that's how that's doing so username password binding on windows. Share with us how it's going. I'm like, I have just read the I'm not started that much like I have just read the implementation of windows in windows credentials and I'm like, figuring it out right now. Okay. Great. All right. I mean like I spent two days working on that only. So, and on the Yeah, the SSH binding. Well, and that's there. It's obviously a complicated area. So yes, absolutely. Okay, any, any other questions or topics we need to discuss today. We did have this topic that we need to before end of community bonding period I think we want you to get an updated description of the project onto Jenkins.io. See if I can find the pages where those go. I mean I will. We will update the dog only after when I figured out that the bouncy castle API is working fine. Okay, I just my thought was, it's probably good for you to to post something there sooner. Well, I would think before we conclude community bonding on the seventh. That'd be good just to show hey here's the progress we've made so far. Here's what we've got, but that's still six days away so you're five days away so you've still got time. What changes do I have to make in that. Well, I think I think the goal would be share either your design document or your ideas of the results of your exploring, you know, basically it's a post to describe here let me look and see just, I've got to see what others are doing just a minute. GitHub Jenkins.io. I think we just had a poll. Where is it. No, that's not it. Okay, so maybe I'm mistaken. Let's see so what have we got here. Yes, so Oleg had PR, I think a version of the new sites. Oh yes here it was update the GSock 2021 remote monitoring project page so here's the example. Right, and this one is the projects page showing. Okay, that's a fairly simple update so this is not a large scale update. And this one. Also pretty simple. Okay, good. Alright so none of these are huge are should all that these two updates did was correct minor errors in the original pages. So let me paste a link to those as examples. And then kind of for the rest of the project, you'll kind of keep that up to date with timelines and that's where we'll post like your blog post updates and stuff like that. Right. Likewise probably on a plan for a demo after first demonstration after first release, or after, you know, at at some progress point. I have typically been in Jenkins online meetups if I remember right, and usually as a group, multiple, multiple projects presented a single meetup 10 to 15 minutes each. What's that for the phase one evaluations, or is it before that is this I think I think this is probably at the end of phase one is where I'm guessing for sure it will be at the end of phase two. Absolutely this is later so maybe what we should say here is phase phase one and or possible or phase two and and possibly earlier, we'll need a blog post and demonstration and because did Rishabh didn't last year we have you do two different demonstrations there were two points where we had to do join a meeting and show. Actually, we have three evaluations last time phase one phase one then the final one. Right and certainly phase evaluations I wasn't sure did we do a demonstration at each of the phases. Okay, so then you should plan the same that phase one and demonstration and 10 to 15 minute with a demo in a 10 to 15 minute talk and same for it phase two and and harsh it you're okay with that. Yeah. Great. Any other topics we should be sure we discussed today. If there's none I won't come back to the pen fighting version from the factory thing. Okay. So my if so my my question is that, or what I'm seeing is that the pen format is essentially a base 64 translation of X 509 keys. If if I'm not wrong about that then I can see that so what how she was talking about the key spec and the algorithm required for us to convert it into them. So let's say we know the algorithm. I can see that there are two default implementations for the key spec one is for the PCC is a format the other one is for the X 509 format key spec. If we're able to do that and then we encoded with the base 64 will be reached with the pen format. Private key is something I want to explore or am I saying something wrong. Okay, so I guess I just want to ask is that is there a conceptual mistake I'm making when I'm saying all of this. I, I didn't hear any conceptual mistake but I'm not a not a crypto expert say it again. So what I mean is that this the code I shared here is is is a way where where I converted a RSA encoded private key into a PCC is encoded key, which is then I use that to store into a keystone that is how I used it. Now what I'm saying is that it requires two things for the conversion. The first is the algorithm, which I haven't shared but it was essentially RSA in my case I knew that it was always going to be the same case. Let's say we know the algorithm. We were sure that we can understand which algorithm is used to encrypt the input key will have the second thing is about the key spec and both of those things I used to generate a private key. Using the key factory. So I can see two default implementations in the Java security package for the key spec. The first is for the PCC is a format and the second one is the X 509 format. So, from what I know about PEM format, it is a base 64 translation of the X 509 key. If that is not wrong then essentially what we have to do is to convert this using the key spec of X 509 and then base 64 encoded. If we do that then do we arrive. I'm not sure that is the correct hypothesis but that's what I'm thinking that do we arrive at a PEM format. Yeah, maybe I should try it first. So you will. Okay, you were saying, if, if since PEM is at base 64 encoded, your question was, if you convert pk csa to base 64 encoded format, do you get PEM. Pk csa format but X 509. Oh, sorry, X 509. So if you convert X 509 to basic and that I do not know. Yeah, that's way beyond my depth. I think it's a simple experiment considering that we already have SSH key gen of a way to convert it, I can just use this and then compare both of them. If I get the same conclusion then I Yeah, could be a way to programmatically convert the keys into PEM format. I think I should. I could share a few links like that will be helpful for everyone on the same page. Can I. Okay. In the chat. In the chat would be greater you can paste them in the document either would be fine if you paste them in the chat I promise to copy them into the document. Okay. Okay, so, so if we do not find a way to programmatically do this, I mean, using a driver library then we're defaulting to using SSH key gen bank. That's, that's my understanding. And if we can't do with SSH key gen, we have to fall back to do the, the, the terminal dance that is done by the get client plugin today. So we do have Yeah, so now how should you did you have other links because there's this link from stack exchange that talks about a Java implementation of ED 25519. However, I have no idea how good or bad that Java implementation is or it's oh it's released to the public domain so at least it is available. I have no idea how strong or weak it is. See here is a. Okay, now, now wait a sec. Okay so here's another one for as a question. How should you might want to look at this one which talks about generating ED 25519 private key parameters. I'm not sure what version of bouncy castle that requires says 1.63. Okay, where do I find the bouncy castle. Okay, so apparently it's not in here ED 25519. Oh no, there it is. Okay, so there is, at least bouncy castle has the concept of it. Interesting. Okay, so, so, so this. Now if it's got ED 25519 I would assume it also has RSA private key RSE private key structure. Yeah, so so and harsh it you had investigated using bouncy castle but it doesn't. It's not a way to sec BC pro BC. I don't know which one I'm looking at so so my worry is this may be too new. Do you see a JDK eight I'm not seeing it 161514. FIPS. Nothing in the FIPS. There is an RSA private key. Okay, so, so I don't, I'm just, I'm not helping here at all I'm afraid I'm just doing wild guesses. Excuse my distraction. It's worth the rest of you. I'm sure I should have investigated. Awesome. But if you seen. Yeah. Yes, I should. Have you opened the Java doc of bouncy castle API. Was it of Jenkins or the bouncy castle API only. This was the bouncy castle API for for bouncy castle itself and it's, it's a version that I don't know what it's actually expressing here harsh it and I apologize that I'm not familiar with that but this looks like it's a bouncy castle API for Java doc for various versions of it. And I think I read that we're running. I guess I should be able to look it up shouldn't I someplace inside Jenkins. There will be a reference to bouncy castle. Okay it's in the bouncy castle API plug in. That appears to be one that five four. I'm going to decode that so. I'm looking at the plugin page. Yeah, there you go. Yeah, you're there. So this. That's instance identity modules I'm not sure if that's the same. Yeah, so how about if we look here. If this thing's palm I would expect it's got a reference to BC something or other. Okay, yeah, there it is so it's using BC, BCP KIX JDK 15 oh and one dot 68. So that is the current version. So, so I think it's worth exploring further to see if you can use. It's easy. Okay. No, this version of it doesn't seem to have it where did I find. It was in. Oh, it's spelled wrong. And this one is in BCP ROV dash ext whatever that means. Let's speculate that BCP ROV this one. Yeah, there it is. Okay, so there, there does seem to be a bouncy castle library that provides it. I'm just not sure if we can use it. So, how should I assume you're okay if I embed a link to this into our into our notes in hopes that it'll help you somehow. We can directly add bouncing as a dependency to get time. So we can use our own. Well, we, we can accept. I worry that that I don't know what, what this one means that particular, what does PR OV mean. In this case is that provisional is that something there's, there's some concept there that I don't think I've ever seen that reference. And so that would be something just to check to be safeguarded to see okay did it does it in fact do what we want and will it can we use it. Let's put the let's put the reference into the document. We want to take the bounce against the API plugins dependency as a reference because that we know has been tested within Jenkins environment. Right, exactly. But so the idea then the question is, but that is probably not inside the bouncy castle API plugin. And that we should be able to check right just to do a quick look. So here if we look at what's included in its palm file, it's only got that single library right now. Now that doesn't stop us from using it that doesn't prevent it. It's just it means we've got it harsh it would have to do some more research to be sure is is it okay that we include that inside Jenkins and does it solve the problem. If it doesn't meet the needs then, including in Jenkins is irrelevant but harsh it it seems worth it. If you can stand to do the exploration to do some exploration around this particular API and see if it'll help. This is for specifically this particular one. Yeah, this one is is specifically for the ED 25519 which is the open SSH format. And then there's open SSH encryption and then there is another one for RSA. Oops, not that. And if we keep looking here we should see RSA private key. So here's the one for RSA. And I bet there is also one for DSA. Yeah, here's the DSA one. And I would bet there's one for EC DSA. Yeah, here it is EC DSA public key. So so it looks like there is at least some representation in this in the law in this particular library BC Prove, EXT JDK 15 on that might be helpful. But using that won't be requiring the knowledge that we know the algorithm. Oh no I think I think it will require that we know the algorithm, but I think you can I'm I'm reasonably confident you can determine the algorithm by looking at the the header of the file. Open SSH keys, sorry, open the key gen generate keys by headers open SSH open SSH private key. So I am not sure if the headers could help us. Yeah, well and what open SSH private key means is that's the open SSH format and open SSH format uses ED 25519. And for the other format such as we would have the address. That's what Justin was initially showing you say. By default. I mean, as I'm reading the key assistant and manual, it says by default it will generate keys in RSA. Algorithm. That is what's done by default until I think open SSH on on open BSD now has changed that. Let me go look just to be sure that's where they do their leading their leading edge development. Oh yes, here it is. Okay. So now it says SSH key gen will by default write keys in an open SSH specific format. It is still possible to write them in PIM. Now that doesn't tell me if they're always ED 251 25519. Oh, and they're even new formats dash SK. Okay, so I can't tell which. So by default, mine's doing an RSA key, even with the most recent open BSD. And if it is an RSA key then we would have the head and would contain that information like it would not be open SSH. Right so SS is so if we do SSH key gen minus T RSA minus F. This will generate the private key. And now we're going to look at it in a terrible mistake. That's good. Okay. Here's the begin open SSH private key. I say how can it. Okay, so that I think I see your point harsher it just generated a key that it says is open SSH private key but it's definitely not ED 25519 format. Yeah. So, so now I assume what we have to do is something like this where we say back to your it was minus E minus M Pam. And now it's generated something that explicitly declares itself to be an RSA public key. And now where did the private key go so that's. Yeah, so more to be done there. I mean if we are able to generate into Pam format then there's no need to know the algorithm like bonds because the sports format. So it's easy for us from there. Right. So the complication then continues with how do we get it into PEM format for all the things and if we can't do PEM format as ED 25519 seems like we can't then how do we handle those keys. And it may be that the initial okay good. I think I think I see where you're headed. Any other topics for discussion today. Oh, our next session, actually next session is a crucial thing. When do we want to meet next. How does your Friday look. Harsher and Richard. Yeah, I can. Yeah, fine by me. And Justin, does your Thursday night at the same time work okay. No good this Thursday night again. Okay, and we don't have Markey did Markey Jackson talk with you. With me though. No okay so Markey, Markey Jackson had expressed interest in being one of the mentors. Nice. Yeah I thought that would be great but I've invited him to this meeting and he didn't make it and he didn't make it to last Friday's either. Okay he declined today so that's fine. We really do need him. Well, it would be great to have him he certainly got experience with yet. Okay so two days from now then. Okay with everybody. Yeah, yeah, go ahead without me. I will do the same follow up. All right. Okay, and that that then I'll have one more meeting next week, and then I'm offline. I wonder if Markey had a problem with with time. He had said that it was okay with him but it could be much he may have he may have had a problem. Absolutely I mean personal schedules are what they are. So I'm going to send everybody an invitation for two days from now same time. Cool. All right, thanks everybody. Anything else before we close. I just wanted to say that so we're going to explore. Okay, so we're going to explore the validity of the possibility of converting the different algorithms by the team to come back, or abandoning the idea. I think that harsh it intends to explore converting the various algorithms to PEM so that he can use bouncy castle harsh it did I understand correctly. That's not that's not my plan B my plan a is using the SSH kitchen from the client plugin using launch command function functionality that provides. Okay, great. Because that's what you've got working now. I mean I did the research on working on converting the formats but I didn't come up to a conclusion so I think that should be for me the plan B instead of pursuing it further and maybe delaying the. It will be delaying. I mean it will be delaying progress. Okay. The SSH key gen is really the preferred path. If you've got additional data that can help. You're certainly welcome to share it. And, and I'm sure suggest alternatives. I'm going to investigate a little bit before saying more on that because I do need to look into the bouncing as an API and the possibility because harsh it has done the investigation and I'm just going to look around. Okay. I'm going to explore the concept of using PCCSA format to store private keys. I'm not sure if it's using it instead of pen is something we can do. I just want to look at that as well. Any other topics. Go ahead. No, no, I was just saying, yeah, that's that's what I'm trying to do. And I report on Friday. Anything else. All right, thanks everybody. I'll post recordings. Shortly. The recording from last session. I think I already posted but if not my apologies I'll try to get it done. Talk to you in two days. Thanks.


Currently, there is a growing trend amongst some Christians where their endeavour to recreate biblical miracles, aiming to validate the Bible's teachings or demonstrate the supposed power attributed to the name of Jesus. This phenomenon has gained significant attention, particularly in certain regions of Africa, where pastors, driven by the compelling promises found in the Bible in the Scripture, occasionally organise unsuccessful demonstrations in their quest to showcase the potency of the Vine Principles. These snakes, it's a part of the Bible, it's a part of what we're supposed to do and I'm going to put that before anybody. This is a church in America where sepents are displayed before worshipers to prove partially found in a New Testament of the Bible, specifically in the Gospel of Luke, in Luke 10-19 Jesus is speaking to his disciples and empowering them with authority over evil spirits and the ability to perform miracles. He says, Behold, I have given you authority to tread on sepents and scorpions and over all the parts of the enemy and nothing would hurt you. Jesus like in the case of the man in the video, this approach often results in failure and can even lead to severe injuries or loss of life. The issue lies in Christians struggling to distinguish between literal interpretations and symbolic comprehension. Perhaps this challenge has also impacted the symbolic interpretation of Jesus, who as a messenger of God has been revealed as in guiding force towards the ultimate and singular truth, the Almighty Allah, the metaphor and benevolence. In today's episode, ladies and gentlemen, a pastor bravely invoked to create the awe-inspiring biblical story or miracle of resurrection, the remarkable event that unfolded between him and the deceased will undoubtedly leave you utterly astounded. Asalaamu Alaikum, ladies and gentlemen, welcome to another episode of the Open Minded Thinker Show. To assist the channel, please like, share and subscribe. In this particular moment captured in video, a Christian pastor takes on the daunting task of attempting to bring back a diseased individual who lies peacefully in a black suit, would favor the pastor and his prayer team, engaged in passionate speaking in tongues, united in the mission to wrath the man from his profound slumber. This by their unwavering prayers, impassioned wheeling and desperate pleas, the man remains unresponsive, unmoved by their efforts. What really happened? There are two notable aspects that raise concern within this video. Firstly, the action of this self-proclaimed man of God appeared to convey to his followers that death is not a natural occurrence, ordained by the higher power of God. By doing so, he reads, indoctrinating his members to believe that death is inherently evil, disregarding its role as a natural transition leading individuals into another realm which is heaven. Secondly, it becomes evident that there were sorts of coercive measures in their attempt to force the deceased individual to rise from his profound slumber through prayers, vehement shoutings and speaking in tongues that tirelessly accept themselves, yet their endeavors you did no research at all. As frustration takes hold, the pastor's behavior becomes increasingly erratic. Witness the unfolding of this unsettling spectacle. Well, the pastor tried his best, but it seems that the alleged power left him stranded. Next time he must learn that some of the miracles in the Bible might be made up. He should rather focus more on second the real truth of Islam, where he wouldn't subject himself to this sort of stress. That's a lot of stress, ladies and gentlemen. Interestingly, the video highlights the importance of understanding and accepting death as a natural part of life. It raises concerns about the portrayal of death as inherently evil or the result of wrongdoing, recognizing death as a natural transition can help foster a healthier perspective and acceptance of its inevitability. It encourages us to embrace the concept of death as a passage to another rem or state rather than resisting it or attempting to deny its occurrence. Islam understands this better and that is why it treats it properly. Alhamdulillah, I am a Muslim. The video as well serves as a reminder of the importance of respecting the boundaries of life. That's why the genuine intentions and fervent efforts of the pastor and his prayer team, they attempt to forcibly bring in all the deceased person back to life, prove fruitless. These emphasizes need to acknowledge and respect the finality of death, understanding that there are limitations to human intervention in matters of life and death. It prompts us to approach death with humility, reverence and an acceptance of its profound mysteries. Instead of relying on the Bible and some of its flowed narrative, the best is to accept reality. Let's live it right there. This is the channel by sharing, liking and subscribing. Until next time, assalamu alaikum.


I'm Hannah from bedrock and I'm excited to introduce an effort our team is exploring to supercharge the ways we are able to move data around our networks. First of all, I want to help folks understand what we have today. You've probably heard of the words bit swap and graph sync. I want to talk briefly about what they are and how they're different. Both of these protocols move IPLD data around live PDP networks. The analogy I've been using to help non programmers understand is this bit swap is roughly designed like BitTorrent while graph sync is roughly designed by like HTTP. That means they shine best in different scenarios bit swap like BitTorrent is good for moving highly distributed content from many peers where each individual peer might have low bandwidth like a home computer. Graph sync like HTTP functions great for downloading data from high bandwidth servers like storage providers. The other big difference between the protocols is a historical artifact of how they were built. BitSwap is the bread and butter of IPFS while graph sync was written in the course of file coin development. This has led to some big difference in the implementations we produce. These aren't differences that are inherent to the protocol, but they're nonetheless quite significant. Graph sync supports layers for payments and authorization while Go BitSwap keeps everything free and not only that but Go Graph sync provides multiple layers of control to our operators while Go BitSwap has very little, has a lot less configurability. This has led in newer situations to a kind of a difficult trade off. We are starting to see in like retrieval markets. It would be nice to be able to reach for either protocol without having to think about what is and isn't supported in terms of things like payments and authorizations. It's a tough trade off right now. Retrieval markets for example needs multi-peer transfers, but also they're going to need payments eventually. What do they use? And this is what Project Thunder is trying to answer. The why not both? We want to make each protocol more powerful and flexible so it isn't really a choice. I shouldn't have to say if I build for file coin I use graph sync, if I build for IPFS I'm kind of stuck on BitSwap. Or if I use BitSwap I can't use have payments. The auto retrieve project you'll hear about next is great for bridging IPFS and file coin, but in a long term one shouldn't need to run a server to translate transfer protocols. And it's not just about making these choices easier. We can actually use one protocol to fill in the gaps with the other. BitSwap lags behind BitTorrent in performance sometimes because BitTorrent starts with more information at the start about the structure of data you're downloading. So what if graph sync could be used to quickly discover that information? How much faster could BitSwap be? These are the kinds of questions we're aiming to answer. So anyway, how are we going to do all this? Well, this is what you're going to get for the five minute version. No, seriously I tried to make like a super simple architectural guide and no matter how much I cut it down the answer will be unsatisfactory unless I'm taking the other deep dives time and I'm not going to do that. That's not what you do to teammates. Suffice to say it's complicated. In terms of what we're doing right now, we have two protocols and several layers of payments that only work with graph sync. In our current work, BedRock is re-architecting the higher level layers to be fully protocol neutral while IPFS stewards are building the hooks in BitSwap to make it possible to support payments. This is complicated, slow work, but you will see hopefully a grow re-architected go data transfer v2. It says in a month or so, but I just heard two weeks. So in two weeks it will be here. But here's a ton of more information. You can read the detailed project proposal and roadmap, it proposes extensions to BitSwap, watch a video on how we're re-architecting go data transfer. You can also follow progress with hashtag data transfer interop on Phil Slack and you can check the slides to dig into these. I might maybe do a deeper dive for programmers at some point. One last thing. We may not get this work done super soon. These kinds of protocol changes are really hard. They're always hard every time we do them. They're long-term investments and they don't always have super visible like immediate wins, but they have very big long-term wins. So our team, it's possible we may need to get reallocated at some point for immediate priorities, but my hope is we're going to get there and we're going to invest as an organization in this kind of low-level work to unlock these key long-term benefits for our network. That's all.


Welcome to Learning English, a daily 30-minute program from the Voice of America. I'm Ashley Thompson. And I'm Dan Novak. This program is designed for English learners. So we speak a little slower, and we use words and phrases, especially written for people learning English. Coming up on the program, John Russell has a story on Mexico being the leading source of goods imported by the United States. I have a story on the possibility of a new category six for hurricanes. Brian Lin has the science report on a new NASA satellite studying oceans and the atmosphere. Later, Jill Robbins and Andrew Smith present the lesson of the day. For the first time in more than 20 years, Mexico took China's place as the leading source of goods imported by the United States. This change, which took place over the last year, brings attention to the growing tensions between the U.S. and China. It also highlights American efforts to import from countries that are friendlier and closer to home. Figures released recently by the U.S. Commerce Department show that the value of goods imported by the U.S. from Mexico rose nearly five percent from 2022 to 2023 to more than $475 billion. At the same time, the value of Chinese imports dropped 20% to $427 billion. The last time that Mexican goods imported by the United States were greater than the value of China's imports was in 2002. Economic relations between the United States and China have declined in recent years. The Trump administration began putting tariffs on Chinese imports in 2018. The administration argued that China's trade policies broke international trade rules. President Joe Biden kept those taxes on imports after taking office in 2021, making clear that opposition toward China would be a rare area of common ground for Democrats and Republicans. Instead of sending production to China, which U.S. corporations had long done, the Biden administration has urged companies to seek suppliers in allied countries in a process called friend-shoring or to return manufacturing to the United States in a process called reshoring. Supply chain problems related to the COVID-19 pandemic also led U.S. companies to seek supplies closer to the United States in a process called near-shoring. Mexico has been among those helped by the growing move away from Chinese factories, but the picture is more complex than it might seem. Some Chinese manufacturers have established factories in Mexico to get the benefits of the three-year-old U.S.-Mexico-Canada trade agreement. The agreement permits duty-free trade in North America for many products. Mexican President Andrés Manuel López Obrador said last week that the trade deal gives Mexico new power. He said it would make it hard for the U.S. to close the two countries' border to limit immigration, as suggested in negotiations on a border bill in the U.S. Senate. The negotiation is proposing closing the border, he said. Do you think Americans or Mexicans, but especially the Americans, would approve that? The businesses wouldn't take it, maybe one day, but not a week. Some industries, especially car manufacturers, have set up plants on both sides of the border. These plants depend on each other for a steady supply of parts. Derek Scissors, a China specialist at the American Enterprise Institute, noted that the biggest drops in Chinese imports were in computers and electronics and chemicals and pharmaceuticals, all politically difficult areas. I don't see the U.S. being comfortable with a rebound in those areas in 2024 and 2025, Scissors said, predicting that the China-Mexico reversal on imports to the United States likely is not a one-year blip. Scissors suggested that the drop in U.S. use of Chinese goods partly suggests concerns about China's economic policies under President Xi Jinping. Xi's COVID-19 lockdowns brought large parts of the Chinese economy to a halt in 2022, and his officials have raided foreign companies in possible counterespionage investigations. I think it's corporate America belatedly deciding Xi Jinping is unreliable, Scissors added. I'm John Russell. There have been a few very powerful ocean storms in the last ten years. The expectation of more to come has some experts proposing a new category of large hurricanes, Category 6. Studies have shown that the strongest tropical storms are getting more powerful because of climate change. The traditional five-category Saphir Simpson scale was created more than 50 years ago. But two scientists suggested in a new study that the scale may not show the true power of the strongest storms. They propose a sixth category for storms with winds faster than 309 kilometers per hour. The study recently appeared in the proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences. Currently, storms with winds of 252 kilometers per hour or higher are Category 5. The study's writers said that this grouping does not do enough to warn people about the greater dangers from storms with even stronger winds. Still, several experts told the Associated Press that they do not think another category is needed. They said it could even send the wrong message to the public because the new proposed category is based on wind speed. Water is by far the deadliest part of hurricanes. Since 2013, five storms had winds that would have put them in the new category, with two hitting the Philippines. All five happened in the Pacific Ocean. As the world warms, such large storms become more likely. Climate change is making the worst storms worse, said Michael Wehner, the study's lead writer. Wehner is a climate scientist at the Lawrence Berkeley National Lab in California. There are not more storms because of climate change, but climate change makes the strongest more intense. The proportion of major hurricanes among all storms is increasing. That is because the oceans are getting warmer, said Brian McNulty. He is a hurricane researcher at Florida's University of Miami. He was not part of the research. Experts have proposed a Category 6 several times over the years, especially since 2013's Typhoon Hyann reached 315 kilometers per hour over the Pacific. The study said that Hyann does not appear to be an isolated case. Storms with high enough wind speed are called hurricanes if they form east of the international date line. They are called typhoons if they form to the west of the line. They are known as cyclones in the Indian Ocean and Australia. There have been 5 storms that had 309 km per hour winds since 2013. Jim Cosen is a climate and hurricane researcher who was an author of the study. He said if the world keeps to 5 storm categories, people will misjudge the risks as storms get larger and more powerful. Pacific storms are stronger because there is less land to weaken them and more room for storms to grow more intense. That is not the same situation in the Gulf of Mexico and in the Caribbean, Cosen noted. Jamie Rome is deputy director of the National Hurricane Center in Florida. He said that when warning people about the storms, his office warns people about individual dangers. These dangers include storm surge, wind, rainfall, tornadoes and rip currents instead of the particular category of the storm. The categories he added only provide information about the dangers from wind. The American Space Agency NASA has launched a new satellite designed to closely study the world's oceans and atmosphere. NASA launched the PACE satellite on September 8th. A SpaceX Falcon 9 rocket carried PACE into orbit from Kennedy Space Center in Florida. NASA confirmed the launch and reported ground controllers had successfully established contact with the satellite. PACE stands for Plankton Aerosol Cloud Ocean Ecosystem. The satellite will spend at least three years studying the environment from an orbit 676 kilometers above the Earth's surface. NASA officials say PACE will map the entire world each day with two science instruments. A third instrument will collect monthly measurements. Scientists should start getting their first data within one or two months. Jeremy Wordle is the project scientist for the PACE project or mission. He told the Associated Press he sees the effort providing humans an unprecedented view of our home planet. Wordle noted a major goal of the observations is to help scientists improve their ability to predict hurricanes and other severe weather events. He said the instruments can provide detailed data on temperature-related changes happening across the world. The satellite data might help scientists better predict when harmful algae blooms will happen. NASA says PACE will also study aerosols or particles in the air. Karen St. Germain is NASA's Director of Earth Science. She told reporters before PACE's launch that the study of aerosols is important because they can affect clouds. Aerosols can affect the density of clouds as well as when and how much precipitation the clouds might release. St. Germain noted existing satellites are not equipped to collect detailed data on aerosols. She said PACE will help NASA learn more about how aerosols affect clouds and climate over long periods. The new data is expected to give scientists another dimension of data on how aerosols affect oceans and the atmosphere. St. Germain added, and then of course there is a relationship between the phytoplankton and the aerosols. Phytoplankton are very small plants that float near the surface of water. They serve as a source of food for many sea creatures. NASA says phytoplankton provide food to all sorts of animals ranging from shellfish to finfish to whales. NASA says PACE's instruments will aim to measure changes in phytoplankton. The satellite will aim to collect data on aerosols that attach to phytoplankton. These studies will be important in identifying any changes in phytoplankton from interactions with aerosols which could affect the ocean and life in it. NASA has already launched a series of Earth observing satellites and instruments into orbit. But the agency believes PACE will be able to collect more detailed data on how different aerosols and pollutants get into the oceans and the atmosphere. Project scientist Wirtel noted that current Earth observing satellites can only see in 7 or 8 different colors. But he said PACE will see in 200 colors, permitting scientists to better identify different kinds of algae in the sea and particles in the air. News reports say the mission will cost about $950 million. The PACE mission follows the launch in December 2022 of NASA's SWAT satellite. The SWAT mission measures sea levels and changes in bodies of water over time. SWAT is a cooperative effort between NASA and France's space agency. NASA is cooperating with India on another Earth observing satellite set to launch this year. That spacecraft, called NISAR, will use radar instruments to measure the effects of rising temperatures on glaciers and other melting icy surfaces. I'm Brian Lin. Brian Lin joins me now to talk more about his science report. Thanks for being here, Brian. Of course, Dan. Thanks for having me. This week you previewed a new NASA mission that aims to study all the world's oceans as well as Earth's atmosphere. What do scientists hope to gain from the data this satellite will collect? So yes, as was noted in the report, NASA officials have said this new satellite, called PACE, is equipped with the latest technology tools to provide more detailed data than ever before. The satellite uses three powerful new instruments designed to measure levels of various substances in the ocean and atmosphere. One of those instruments is built to detect colors to identify materials, particularly in the ocean, while two others use properties of light to observe particles present in the atmosphere and clouds. The report does mention the latest mission follows the launch in 2022 of another observing satellite that is also collecting similar data from the world's oceans. How will the PACE mission differ from that one? Yes, this is correct. The satellite that launched in 2022, called SWAT, does have a similar mission, but NASA has said the main difference between the two satellites is that while SWAT is centering on the study of ocean movements, PACE will seek to collect detailed biological data on seas and the atmosphere. Alright, thanks for joining me, Brian. You're welcome. Thank you, Dan. And now it's time for the lesson of the day on the Learning English podcast. My name is Jill Robbins and I'm joined by Andrew Smith. Andrew? Hi, Jill. Our lesson is based on our video series Let's Learn English. The series shows Ana Mateo in her work and life in Washington, D.C. Here's Ana introducing herself. Hello, my name is Ana Mateo. Watching and listening carefully to the video series can help you understand and speak English better. And learn about some aspects of American culture. For example, lesson 20 is called the test drive. Ana and her friend Penelope go to an auto show. Have you ever been to an auto show, Andrew? You know, I haven't. I've never been, but I have been interested in going. They look interesting. In this video, Ana takes a test drive in a car, which means she drives the car for a short distance to try it out. But at auto shows, it's kind of like a fair to demonstrate new models of cars for people interested in learning about them. So you can expect to see new cars and learn about new features. And nowadays they're really promoting the electric vehicles. That's right. At this car show, Ana and Penelope are there as reporters. They also mentioned someone named Rick, who seems to be the videographer. That's right. Rick created all of the wonderful videos in our first two Let's Learn English series. Let's listen in and find out what Ana and Penelope learn. That's a great idea. Rick, I think we should use this as the opening shot. Ana, did Miss Weaver give us instructions for covering the car show? She did. She said that we need to show lots of cars. She said we need to interview people. And she also said to have fun. Those were her exact words. Yeah. She said, have fun, Ana. And she is the boss. Okay, Rick, are you ready? Hello, I'm Ana Mateo. Welcome to the Washington Car Show. People all over town are saying that if you like cars, this is the place to be. So let's see what people are talking about. One of the grammar points in this lesson is reported speech. We hear Ana telling Penelope what Miss Weaver said. She said that we need to show lots of cars. She said we need to interview people. Let's compare how we tell exactly what someone said, like directly, to reporting what they said indirectly. When we quote a person, we give their exact words. Imagine how Ana could directly quote Miss Weaver. Miss Weaver said, you need to show lots of cars. You need to interview people. In reported speech, we make some changes. We add a reporting verb, which in our example is the word said. It could also be words such as tell, ask, reply, or any other verbs we use for speech. Then we can use a conjunction like that. The conjunction is optional as we hear in our examples. Finally, we say the reporting clause, which often uses a different tense from the original. For example, if the verb is present, we might change it to the past. And we may change the pronoun if the quote used one. That sounds like a lot of changes, but it's not too complicated. Listen again. She said that we need to show lots of cars. She said we need to interview people. Let me give an example where the verb tense changes. Last week, you told me that you were driving to North Carolina for the weekend. I did. And to report that, you changed the verb tense. I said I am driving to North Carolina for the weekend. Yeah, and I would say Andrew told me that he was driving to North Carolina for the weekend. Let's listen to one more example from our story. First, Anna tells Penelope that Ms. Weaver told them to have fun. Then Penelope asks Anna to tell her exactly what Ms. Weaver said. And she also said to have fun. Those were her exact words. Yeah, she said have fun, Anna. I think that's because she didn't quite believe her. Yeah. Listeners, let's practice this a little bit. Jill and I will say a quote. Then give you time to change it to reported speech. Then we'll let you know how it should change. Are you ready? Yep. Here's the first one. I am going shopping. Jill said she was going shopping. Or Jill said she was going to go shopping. Notice the verb changed from am to was. OK, now it's my turn. I will wash the dishes after lunch. Andrew said that he would wash the dishes after lunch. Here, the past tense applies to the modal verb will. And the next one. Andrew, will you please make me a cup of tea? Jill asked me to make her a cup of tea. Aha. You changed the reporting verb there to ask. Good job. Jill just said that I did a good job. Wait, wait, that wasn't an example. I was just saying that. Well, I guess I'm really on a roll with this reported speech. Now, let's see what happens back at the auto show. I think we're in for some silliness or funny situations, which you can see for yourself if you go to our website and watch the video. OK, I think we got good interviews. Me too. People all had very different opinions, but they all said they loved cars. Anna, look, a robot. A robot. Rick, we have to use the robot in the show. What is your first name? Anna. You know, what an effort. What an effort to robot dance. How about a round of applause for Anna? I've never seen anyone try so hard. Penelope, did you hear that? Hank the robot said that he has never seen anyone dance like me. I'm sure our listeners can imagine Anna doing that robot dance. And did you notice some more reported speech? I did. Anna said... Hank the robot said that he has never seen anyone dance like me. I bet he hadn't. But now it's time for us to end this podcast. Andrew said it was time to end the podcast. But you can still practice reported speech. Listen to the radio or TV and take one sentence. Write it or say it to yourself using reported speech. I think that's a good idea, Jill. Also, our listeners can write to us in an email to learningenglishatvoanews.com. Thanks for listening to the lesson of the day. If you liked this program, please share it with your family and friends. And remember that you can also find us on Facebook, YouTube, and Instagram. I'm Andrew Smith. And I'm Jill Robbins. And that's our program for today. Join us again tomorrow to keep learning English through stories from around the world. I'm Ashley Thompson. And I'm Dan Novak.


And still on entertainment, an enduring rapper and YBNL boss, Olamide Adideji, also known as Olamide he says, his experience as a street hustler motivates him to support rising stars. The record label executive said this during an interview with Apple Music Africa now radio. He explained his childhood struggles, saying he went through hell before he attained success. He went on to explain that his music style has evolved from rap music to street music and now pop-gener.


In the temple of the Holy Spirit, which is our own hearts and minds, and what does that house of prayer look like? What is Jesus calling us to? You know, He used the whip once, but what did He do every day for hours and hours as recorded by the Scripture? The Scripture is He prayed. He drew near to the Father. Why did He do that? He was fully God and fully man and fully capable of His mission. Why pray so much? Why spend so much time in conversation with the Father?


In this video we find Kent in a classic across the road situation. I'm going to let you talk about it Kent. Okay so we've got two soils that we're comparing here and they're literally right across the road from each other. One has been a very long-term no-till 15 years plus and the other one is actually this is its first year of no-till. Pretty heavy tillage very little residue prior to 2020 and there's a pretty stark contrast in the soil structure when you're looking at this. One of them the no-till one is nice and crumbly just like that cottage cheese that we like to talk about falls apart nice in your hands. There's no obvious layers of compaction just crumbles all the way down. Now the field next to it that's been a tillage system for quite some time you can find the compaction layer you go down six inches and it's right here it's very blocky just comes apart in plates just kind of in sheets and why does that matter to a pruser because when you've got that compaction layer the roots have got to spend energy to go through there. You'll notice this root here it's growing actually horizontal it's not going down this one all the roots are vertical going up and down there's no energy being expended to get down deeper into the deeper into the soil profile to access the nutrients and moisture that's down there. So just a good comparison of what you can do and find just by sticking your spade in the soil and looking at your soil.