Hello, welcome to the Advocacy and Advocacy CIP meeting today is April 22nd, we have several contributors on the call and we have a few topics on our agenda. Just my screen. Yes, we can. Okay, so yeah just put a few random topics, which we had in progress and if you want to discuss something else just put them to the list. And, yeah, let's give priority to your topics so that we can discuss them first. Okay, so what I put the agenda jinx contributor summit updates. Thank you. Anything else we want to discuss today. So we have pending meetup. I'm way behind on getting it submitted but a proposal for a meetup with Uli Hoffner talking about his developer onboarding techniques uses with his university students. It doesn't have to be. Yeah. So we have. So let's take a full list of upcoming meetups. So we have tick ton client plugin works. We have open telemetry in the works but unlikely to happen the next few weeks. Open telemetry that's the work that Victor Martinez just announced. Excellent. Victor and serial. So actually we are likely to have two meetups. One will be in English strings online meetup and the one will be in French together with Swiss elastic meetup organizers. Well, it depends on whether serial is up to date to meetups but initially he was interested. So then we have it up for Jenkins, but not a separator. Then we have CDFC. Dope sold CFP. And we have a meetup for developer developer best practices right. Right. Yeah, developer best practices with with Uli Hoffner. Well, there were other discussions like, for example, we had a discussion with somebody in Twitter that we would host a meetup for preview environments support in Jenkins with these tools, which is kind of interesting topic. Right now there is no confirmed date, no confirmed application. In addition to that, I might do online meetup for Jenkins roadmap updates ahead of the contributor summit, but I'm sure. Anyway, the list is quite good. If half of them happens, it's good. And yeah, we will have Jenkins room meetup. We have a session this meetup organizers this weekend. So we are funded to contributors who are interested to volunteer with the organization and other organizers are also interested. So we'll definitely run something. But yeah, most likely in May. The Jenkins room meetup will certainly be in Russian. Right. And that's the idea. Excellent. We also have not so active discussion about reviving Jenkins meetups in Spanish because we have three contributors who are interested. So if we do, we will definitely use one of our meetups published on commas additional platform for promotion, for example, Madrid meetup or CV meetup or all of meetups. So we will definitely use the determinants of the local meetups where relevant. So the question what we do is this meetup accounts and longer term remains. Okay. So let's go forward then. Okay, Jenkins contributor summit. Thanks to Jacqueline and they can easily read the foundation everything is published. So this output. There is a registration form way. Basically when you register to CD con you have an option to register to the Jenkins contributor meetup as well. It's announced in the agenda. It's also listed here in the events. We can use Jenkins contributor summit to which points to all pitch. So I want to improve this page a bit but yeah, whatever works. Jackie, do you have any, any data that you can share in terms of how many registrations we have. Yeah, you guys have to 17 right now. Yes. And so that's also something that I wanted to chat about because I know that are we going to have a cap. Do we need to have a cap on registration. Or can, like, you know, I know the actual attendance will be probably lower than the registration. But if we need to put a cap let me know because I don't want to have like 500 people register and like, be a limitation. Yeah, so our platform can support checked yesterday. So I'll count setting says we can support 300 people. Normally the webinar we break out rooms. And up to 500 and other things. Figure out what exactly. We can start working only when we get to 1000 registrations for that there is no chance that we will hit limit. Okay, okay, yeah, just, just wanted to ask that. And then the other thing is I'll start adding the Jenkins contributor summit on the rest of the groups for the meetups. One question I had was regarding talks. Sorry, this is also related to CD combat CD con talks that are Jenkins related. I'm going to ask Roxanne if she could put a list together because she's doing all the tweeting right now, and we were wondering if the Jenkins account would retweet any of the Jenkins related talks. I'm going to do. I monitored it I've seen one tweet already. So yeah, so I'll ask Roxanne to just in a document, put all the links to all of the tweets that are linked in post that are related to Jenkins talks. And then let me know what that process is if I need to submit it somewhere for approval. We will be posting additional summary blog post on the Jenkins site with all the links. Because yeah and if I understand correctly we're still missing some sessions for example Jenkins both isn't in the agenda at the moment. Yeah that's still that's still being worked on. I'm sorry I have to just take a call really quick one sec. So, oh like, perhaps we can ask Roxanne to blog about those sessions. Yeah, that's what we discussed with Roxanne. So she would be doing blog post specifically about CD con agenda. I will be doing blog post about the contributor summit. And of course we cross reference. Okay. One thing from what I know Roxanne is off until the next week, end of next week. Because yeah there is a stage blog post for Jenkins contributor awards. And yeah she asked me to get it over the line so it's what I will be doing right after this meeting. Okay. Yes we have. So for contributor summit we started assembling the agenda on the top level. So if you go to this document, there are some entries. It's not a final agenda we just have a few items in the list. So what we have, we definitely want to have Jenkins three discussion in some kind. We want to discuss Java 17 support, because it's going to be released in September it will be some demand. After Java 11 I'm afraid of saying in high demand but yeah they will be different with some people reaching out. And then we want to have a session about Jenkins and Jenkins X collaboration and interoperability it's confirmed. I think it's in Tecton. It's confirmed to be awaiting for the list of contributors but then Lawrence kind of the confirmed that so I think that we shouldn't be fine. Then, yes simple Jenkins and other projects. So for example they will be talking to CD con about using the Jenkins and our studios together. So it's also something we could have if there is a content for contributors summit discussion. It's something we can discuss but it's far from being confirmed and announced. Then we want to have Jenkins and user panel having multiple big Jenkins users presenting just sharing the expertise and more important sharing the planes and expectations from the community so what they want to see changing is what the expectations demands, etc. So basically having a kind of direct channel of feedback from users to contributors as a part of the summit. We are working on that together with us every day because and we will be reaching out to the CDF because one of our items is to actually get CDF members and user members there, because we know that many of them have really big Jenkins instances. So for me it's one of the focuses. Oh like in terms of proposing, I would love to at the contributor summit have a track on documentation. Should I be writing it into that contributor summit document as a proposed change. Yes, we discussed the previous meetings and so we have something tentatively. I propose something for documentation. No. No, we don't because I haven't added it or there's confirmed entities there but we need a session and some what that would mean and why. Yeah. Yeah, we have declared interest. But if you want to have a separate session documentation definitely need hosts and you need some kind of agenda. Plus, yeah there is open question about timing because if you do it is one day event, then the timing will be tight, especially if you do it in the US East time zone as we do it now. And it would be okay if, if we if we said hey the time timing doesn't work we could do separate sessions outside of this and bring this summary of the results to it. So, yeah, I don't need to let timing be a barrier for me on that one. Yeah, right. So, for example, we can easily announce that a few sessions will happen after the contributor summit date. Yes, you're welcome to join. But for me, the main concern is how do we do the main part. Right. Yeah, right now we started for something. Oh, sorry, 10 am Eastern time. So, well, it's not that late in Europe, but you definitely will have opening maybe one round and then the most of people in Europe will stop start dropping out and it will be still for Asian and Pacific region. Yeah, so really quick it's 9am Eastern time that we put you down as starting if that needs to get, you know, pulled in just let us know because we we can definitely do that. We can update. Yeah, so I basically just put the same as others for now. Yeah. So if you need help and like the suggestion, like one of the things we did for example, all of the European speakers we put them in the morning, and then, you know, switch over to somebody in the US in the afternoon. If you have that concern of European folks not being able to support the event. I think that it's a contributor summit. So it implies that we would have active discussion between contributors. And so it's not just having a speaker there and it complicates the things because, you know, usage of suspects for many areas. So finding a time where we'll be not that easy as we discovered the previous contributor summit. I don't have answer for that. But I definitely tend to find answer within the next few weeks. Anyway, they went proceeds. Yes, we published almost everything except the online meetups. And hopefully we will also get that in the mailing please. And the newsletters if possible. And also, yeah, there is this links foundation site and the protocol correctly jinked cement is still not there. Okay, let me follow. No, it was wrong. Okay. Yeah. Oh like for my convenience is that is a link to the Google Doc with the outline available in the notes from the SIG meeting here. Yeah. Okay, so I can find it in there. Great. So you just need to click a few links.  Oh, got it. Thank you. Okay. But yeah, thanks a lot to the CDF Jacqueline Tracy and everybody who helped because we decided on this event quite lately. But it's great to see that everything is published. And now the ball is totally on our side to prepare. And then also just let us know as well, because one of the things that we can do as we're getting closer to the date is also instructions on how attendees, you know, you know, log in or if they need to register through the zoom link first. So just let us know so that we can send that email out a few days before the event starts just like kind of like what to expect for for Jenkins contributor summit and, and how to participate. Okay. I agree. And you're likely it will be also blog post. Let's see. But yeah, definitely put this section item myself or somebody else will come in it. Okay. So that's all but yeah so far so good and we have plenty of time to adjust. Okay, for CD corn. Yeah, I think that we discussed all the topics or do we have anything else to cover. No, I think that that was it just, you know, let us know when we have like the blog and then we'll get that published and pushed out as well through all of our channels. And then let us know also how do we if Roxanne needs to submit, like I said all the links to the retweet for retweeting for Jenkins sessions. Just let us know on next steps because we, we definitely want to let the community know. That's great. And thank you. Okay, so the next is actually. Yeah, can I can I ask Jackie something about CD con as well. And so Jackie, I'm sorry if I should already know this I can't seem to remember but will we have an exhibit hall virtual exhibit hall. Yeah, we have the virtual expo hall so every sponsor has a booth. So every project will every project have a booth. Sorry, I don't remember where we left off. If we agree to it or not, I'll bring it up to Tracy Miranda again and ask her what we want to do. Are we giving each of the projects a booth. And then I think where her concern was it was just like the community of each of those projects will then you know what we would put that responsibility on the project community to staff that booth. I mean, let me confirm on what she wants to do. Yeah, and yeah, and I can certainly help with getting people sign up to help at least staff the Jenkins booth. Yeah, yeah, of course. But yeah, let me confirm what she wants to do and I'll circle back. Okay, thank you. Yeah. So then more forward. Okay, so the next topic is actually about Jenkins X 3x. And you may wonder what we're discussing here the Jenkins the focus energy seek. And the main reason that you guys discussed yesterday Jenkins X 3 restores support for Jenkins as well as the ICD engines. So there is the command and support for Jenkins and putting classic business up and the Jenkins file runners are up to be sticked on. Yeah, as we agreed at the governance meeting we want to promote it through the Jenkins channels because we can see the Jenkins X is our sister project. And we have actually a plan for that. So we discussed a few tweets LinkedIn post I have also started to send them to the blog post draft for that. And we've got some quotes from KK and James Strachan. But yeah, we will post it a bit later. And of course, once it's posted to be creative, like and here's the foundation could also help this promotion. And yeah, but yeah, I will be LinkedIn tweets, etc. So it's just heads up for that focus and outreach seek and still waiting for feedback regarding the content. So, so far, good feedback on the from Cara and from James's. So some of the from the Jenkins community, it will be great. But yeah, I think that it's important and beneficial for us. And just to add yesterday, we had a blog post by James Strachan on the Jenkins website talking about the client plugin for Jenkins and apparently by using this plugin you can invoke not only tick tone pipelines but also Jenkins X pipelines from Jenkins. So, yeah, it's a quite long but you're very informative blog posts so take a look and I think that it's important we should push such interoperability stories forward where we can. And then we'll follow ups about tick tone tasks upon walking Jenkins, because there is a request from a contributor for having official tick tone task for Jenkins. And I guess it's could be also a subject for the contributor summit. At least I invited the participants in this Twitter thread. Okay, anything else on that. We discussed with terminology. We discussed yesterday and at the governance meeting. Quick update the focus and outreach because we started doing it under a preload of the seek because Alex Ola and the market checks in the heavily participating to be sick at the time. So, we announced knowledge changes in August. We had two remaining action items one to define subterms. So for example for Jenkins main node. It's still called master and we had an action item to rename that we interrupt the ball on that due to various reasons. And we want to continue that so cover the discussion after a few kind things by Daniel Beck. And it's going for same for localizations. So hopefully in a few weeks we'll have decisions on this term. Okay, I don't think we will be making a huge pass out of that. Most likely we'll just approve that at the governance meeting. And what we actually need to that to integrate changes because there are staged pull request by Daniel other contributors including for example, one of these teams contributed to the technology to not across the plugin ecosystem. So we will lend these changes and then we can think about making it a featured project or whatever just to highlight it as a part of additional program, maybe use some stickers I don't know. I mean, it's happening. No action items are quite from the six specifically. But if somebody wants to contribute, please join the program. Any questions. No. Okay outreach programs being really quick. So Google summer of code applications are over. We put the old applications to different projects we participate in the level of the contingency foundation this year. Currently that is ongoing review we are seeing can help with mentors, you may have seen a lot of emails from me especially if you're an orchid mean. And yes we expect an answer this email so please take a look. And basically the results will be announced on May 30. So in three weeks and we still have some things to do within these three weeks. But everything looks good so far. The season of dogs, we applied at the jinx project, we are not accepted. There is a retrospective doc I created when he did the documentation seek. So far I didn't get it back. I guess I owe you feedback there like I've got, I've got to look at it. I was interested in the relatively few number of the smaller number of groups that were accepted and wanted to do some more looking at, at the level of those groups based on what was posted on the Google season of doc site. We are certainly not an experienced group with Google season of docs. Yeah, so personally, I don't make a big deal out of us not being accepted. So last year they were 50 organizations this year they were 30. And this year you should consider JSO that basically has a completely different program because of the change in the framework now it's organizations paying to do hard rank etc. So, yeah, it's a different program, except the name. And yeah, if you take a look at this project I compare it to the list of two seven. Yes, maybe there are half of organizations there, but other half on your organizations and I guess the preference of JSO organizers was to have new organizations. So, yeah, it's one of the main reasons why we weren't accepted I think, but there are still some things we could improve in my opinion and that's why I started this retrospective doc. And I will provide feedback there. So, yeah. And yeah, so we don't have a season of docs this year, we have an opportunity to run our own program. So, if there are mentors interested in that we can do that. Most likely in the September 10 frame because I don't think that we have capacity to run JSO and JSO and parallel. Well, not JSO but our own program. You're right that we don't have capacity to run it in parallel, at least I don't. Yeah. So, next, she caught Africa. So we have five participants. The program has just started but actually it tends in about one week. So, not that much time left, you have five contributing participants. There is a blog post. There is several submitted pull requests. You also helping students to communicate with particular plugin maintainers to facilitate the reviews. It will be also key. Yeah, you will also do retrospective, etc. But you know, no specific highlights. Hopefully out of that we will get a blog post and maybe some additional promotion by participants. It will be great if they share their own experiences. I'm not sure whether we have enough content, for example, to have a Jenkins online meetup to talk about the program results. So it's something for you to consider Mark but certainly I'd considered writing a page about what it means to add help to Jenkins. Based on what we've learned from Sheikot Africa, because we've learned a number of places where I wasn't realized I wasn't aware and so I think it's good, good question, I'll, I'll explore it with them. Okay, so whatever content, we need that. So, Mark, I mean, even if you're interested, I can save a slot for you at DevOps world I think I think this this this is great stuff that you're doing and it's good to give it some visibility to a wider audience. That's a good idea. Yeah, so I may propose a, I fear that I may propose a combined talk with me and me and maybe Kristen or me and Kristen and Angelique and one or two of the. So yeah, that's a good idea thanks for the suggestion Alyssa. Let me think about that I know that CFP is open for DevOps world so Okay, so. Anything else on outreach programs. So there was an ongoing discussion about doing something with open source design. Right now I'm just tracking open source design and main increase, etc. So we want to miss the upcoming event, hopefully, but yeah there is no specific update and definitely with the current load I'm not ready to facilitate that. So we'll, if there is a program we will try to join, if not. Okay. So, onboarding online event organizers and also outreach program organizers hopefully a couple of weeks ago, we did a series of blog posts about that. We also had a session for contributors who responded to the call for participation. And at this session we've got five participants, we also had some follow up discussions for those who are unable to join. Yeah. Yeah, so we have a few follow ups, including organizing events, etc. Hopefully you will be able to onboard these contributors to organizing events and this list. Yeah, I was, I was very pleased with that events orientation because out of that I got a volunteer to assist with co hosting the webinar with the online meetup with Uli Hoffner so that already for me was very positive. Yeah, now we just need to make it happen. Also, yeah, there is a slide deck which we created. Well, we shot advance for this event to be honest. But yeah, that's how I create slides always. Maybe I will keep improving them and maybe we will. So I have an action item to convert some of these slides to documentation, etc. Because our gene sales slash specific events are quite shallow when it comes to organizing meetups. So if I recall correctly, he was participant in this session. So, yeah, anyway, we have a plan for that. So let's hope it works because you usually need more organizers. Okay. Then we discussed the box walk safety and asked me anything meetup. So, at least said that the best date would be May 4. And yeah, let's do that. I guess there will be a lot of Star Wars related imaging during this presentation. I'm not sure. But yeah, let's do the meetup and I started the poll in Doodle. So please vote for the time slots. And yeah, we will try to announce it shortly so that we can also see through DevOps world and Jenkins and whatever other channels. One question about that, that what we do call for papers specifically for the community track or for community and CDF tracks. I'm not sure what is the plan of the continuous different foundation for their track. So, you know, right now we have, we just did the CFP for for DevOps world through. We have a track there so we're just pushing people to, to the DevOps to submit their, their, excuse me, I can't, I don't know I can't speak but to submit their talk through the CFP process from cloud bees. I just need to sync actually with Katie and also probably you Alyssa on, like I know I'm the chair but then I also need to just recruit a few other people to join the committee. So, yeah, whatever that the CFP process ends up being through cloud bees that's what we'll follow. Yeah, so basically it means that you can have more or less the same discussion for both. So Jackie for for the CFP. What happened was that we, I think the so called bees was only able to purchase a certain amount of seats for the portal submittal. So, so what's going to happen with the CDF track is that you're, you're going to the be the chair so that means you have access to the portal to the tool, and then, but your graders won't. Okay, we'll probably have to work through a spreadsheet. Okay. Yeah, that's, that's fine. We can definitely help out with regards to inputting the data. I know it's a panel but but we can help you out with that too. Yeah, I mean I figured I probably probably what I'll probably try to do is just get like a community member from each of the incubating projects to represent. And, or if not all ask the ambassadors and basically whoever has time to volunteer to help grade them. But yeah, I'm okay with just exporting it and then having to do the manual input. Okay. And yeah for the CDF track, do we formally consider CDF track as a as a second community track or do we consider it as an industry track or what's the positioning for promotion of this track. I pretty much I left it pretty wide, I left it pretty broad so basically, I took the description of CD con and any talk that you would submit to CD con is, you know, we're going to review and integrate it as part of our track but, Alyssa, is there going to be any, for example, any specific guidance that cloud beast wants us to follow as well or. It's your track, you make it your own so cool. I can speak about the community so basically the way that we want that is to make this a broad community effort so yes we will focus on Jenkins as typically we get a lot of those submissions, and then we're open to to, accepting other open source projects as well. Right, so the term is community and then, and what are some of the, the best practices in building a community and how to maintain a community, those kind of talks. So, community in general. Okay, that makes sense. I'm sure there's going to be lots of overlap so Jackie probably will have some Jenkins sessions in her in her CDF track and I'll probably have some in mind and then there will be practitioner track. I think that probably has Jenkins in it as well see how people using the enterprise so there may be some overlap, but we'll get together and make sure that it's a balance agenda. Okay, for me what it means that you should definitely promote both tracks. If the safety, safety process is the same and application. Well, and that is not clear the borderless promote everything. So then I see community tends to be abstracts. Yeah, and I have probably like what we ended up doing last year as well was like, if it didn't fit in the community track like it got pushed to our track as well so we're flexible I'm okay with that. Yeah. Me too. Okay, anything else on this meetup. No. Thanks a lot stories for green to present there. Look at the agenda. Alyssa sorry this is related to DevOps world but I know on Tuesday on the 20th they Selena sent out a hey like hold this slot but there was no like link so I didn't show up to a meeting because I didn't know what way to show up. Oh, so that was this week. Yeah, it was on Tuesday at on. Yeah, the 420 at two, two o'clock. Yeah, no worries. I'll send you the recording. It was just session, a training on the portal. Yeah, I know I wanted to be part of it but in the invite there wasn't a zoom or a Google link or anything. Oh, that's weird. Okay. Yeah, the recording. Okay, cool. Yeah, please. Okay. No, it's it for me. Okay, thank you. So, Schwark package updates. It's quick. No updates. I do did some background work started drafting the form so that we could understand how many issues we want to send to different places. And yeah, even this process seems to be really complicated. But yes, you can do that. Yeah, one update to for you, Oleg on the swag. So one of the things that they proposed. So they were like we are, she's like we the estimate that we're getting is based on, like, regular mail we're not using ups or FedEx. And I actually can attest to that I tried to go ship something yesterday to Scotland, and it was going to be about $40 and it wasn't a big package either. So she her suggestion is she's like what we could do is we can. We know the quantities that for example we know that we need like 50 t shirts in Europe. She's like we've got partners that we could do a drop shipment to Europe and then we need to provide them with the addresses and then they'll distribute it from Europe. So it'll reduce the cost. So that's one thing that we can do is just do like four or five drop shipments to the regions and then work with those partners there to deliver locally, instead of having to do international like several international packages at once. I don't know if that works for you. But again we just need to get organized and be able to provide them like the list with addresses. So then then that local distributor can create the packaging and all that kind of. So this approach would work if you're shipping let's say only socks, stickers, etc, because you can invest some time, some money upfront, build a stock at all this local distributors and then quickly distribute that. Yeah, if you talk about sending different types and sizes of t shirts, I can assure you it will be a logistics nightmare. Yeah, because we need it, we would need to know ahead of time, for example, what sizes to send over to that local distributor ahead of time. So I just thought I'd share those options with you guys. Yeah, thank you and you're totally right. This option would work if we were doing let's say a massive for the distribution. But in our case, we do limit the short distribution. And in this case, yeah, this thing will likely distribute liquid things even more. So I think that for this time, what we should do is that we create requests on our own. We send it to our local distributor as a would be a Jenkins contributor. Okay, and basically we are done with it. So we will be still using financial but for one for one shipment. Okay, just just let me know and, like I said, we just need to know numbers and if you do want to do t shirts we just need to do sizes. So just let us know and then I can ask pinnacle to just do one drop shipment to that person and then they can figure out how to distribute locally. Okay, here's the previous plan. Okay, so double is totally on my site I just need to provide this lease for that I need to create a group form in recipients and here like headache sauce. But yeah, I will do that. Any other topics for today. Nope, I'm done. I have no topics as well. Then we say that the meeting is done and thanks to everyone. So if you have some time I would appreciate reviews for Jenkins X LinkedIn and blog post routes because this is a big content. Some keys might be sensitive content. Okay, for the rest of you let's just keep working. Thanks. Thank you for hosting. Thanks. Thank you. Thank you. Bye.


It's a very good welcome to give you announcements for automated traction, so please keep coming and find a seat to make yourselves at home. And I want to say a very warm welcome on behalf of everyone here on site to the final day of the OER conference. So give yourselves a very warm round of applause. I know that some of us had a lot of fun last night, some of us were outside the shooting halls in Epidermas and waiting for firemen to rescue them. The fire was safe, but now we all know what pajamas look like. Something I was expecting, but I think there's a limit to that. So should we be here. I wanted to thank everybody involved, particularly the two near Edoa Chai, the tidalist colleagues who are working in all the rooms again today and who are presenting sessions as well. It's been absolutely fantastic to be here. And also another big welcome, and thank you to our OGM delegates. Give yourselves a shout out, Gina. Also to everyone joining us online, thanks to our platform, Partners Cultural World. And if you'd like to see more of the weekend through in action, I believe there is a one session today, two actually, where you can see Lauren and Jim in action. And they may be singing, who knows. It's been fantastic to see so do you share your impressions of OER on Mastodon and on other sites that we won't be mentioning here. And I wanted to give a surprise shout out to our photographer down here. Sometimes official OER photographer, but there will be official photographs flooding across your networks later on today. And a big thank you for turning that around so quickly to us. It's an absolutely fabulous capture of what OER is like up close and personal. Now, the moment you've all been waiting for, today's housekeeping announcement. Yesterday, our studio has become room 209.  It is leaving at your own risk, but it's only us in the building. So hopefully, hopefully you've got other valuables. Please do use that to bring your suitcase somewhere. And unfortunately, one of our number, Melissa Highton, is unwell, and we had to cancel her session. So I'm very glad to have Stuart Nickel with her colleague. So if you'd like to learn more about the work of Stuart, we'll be able to read and talk to you in a minute. So with that housekeeping announcement is up finished. You are in for a wonderful day here at the OER Captains. And now, please put your hands together for Martin Werder, our co-chair for the story. Martin has done a good night. I think I had a sort of nightmare about that spider-attack thing. It's all right. Wonderful, studio great. So just ... I was asked to introduce to you, I think when did we say this person needs no instructions? I've known them for 15 or 20 years now. I think we met in the early 18th century still, and also didn't work very well, so it's been a bit of a warning to you guys, don't do blog posts, don't commit to other things. So yeah, that's all I'm going to let Dave come up and introduce himself. Good to see you all. Thanks for coming. This is a remarkable attendance for a second day morning. I appreciate your dedication. So, in 2019. I just finished, I just stopped working as the manager of medical school in Canada speaking of things you shouldn't try to do. So, for that and I had some time off and I thought I was going to try to pull together. The last 15, I would say 15 or 20 years of logging into some kind of focusing. I had this idea that there's this uncertainty layer happening beneath our culture that I can speak to. I was writing in March 2020 came along and then everybody knew that already had to go back start again. What this is the title of that book. I want to talk through some of the pieces that I've come to inside of that and some of the some of the struggles that I've had with trying to talk about abundance, trying to talk about what it means to us and try to talk about what it means in the context of older. So, this is me, actually it's not me, it's from my hometown, but I am from Canada. It is it's been snowing path here. I work at the University of Windsor and I'm a learning specialist. I think it's strategy and special projects. I speak about higher ed. I've done communications. I've done student orientation and I've done all kinds of different things inside of higher ed. But the thing that holds it together is my interest in what kind of internet means to our learning. So we're going to talk a little bit about learning and what it means and how it relates to technology and how our technologies have influenced that over the years. We're going to talk about abundance and what I think that means then we'll talk a little bit about how we can learn for a while. So what we're not going to do today is take a quiet, feel free to shout out some of you. I might as well say that too because if you do anyway then it sounds like it's listening to me. We're not going to allow for counting because that's capitalism. We're not going to throw things. We may break down rules here in a minute or you'll see how that's going to go down. So I'm going to argue that to some degree at least learning is a reflection of our information landscape. What's available to us, what we have and what we need to get done. So if we fly back 3,800 years, 3,800 a bit, this is a tablet from a school in Edjuba in Nippur in Mesopotamia. This is one of the better ones. There's some really great ones from the students and they're like one mark here. You can take a little wedge piece of stick and you put it in the clay. At this time, this is close enough to the first written language we have. You can make some arguments about some places in Central America. Give or take one of the first written languages we have. If you're in the Edjuba school, but you imagine it's 3,800 years ago, you've got a clay tablet on your lap. Yeah, a little stick. You need to know how to wedge out fish. In your opinion that you have, with a creativity process in this, you need to make a recognizable fish so that when you put fish on the tablet, somebody else knows it's fish. And we have thousands really of excellent lexicon lists that you were basically meant to call. You had to memorize those words and write them out to the point that they were legible. It totally makes sense that that's a teaching approach to these problems. That's level one inside the Edjuba. Level two in the Edjuba was the memorization of, depending on how you talk about it, 12 or 14 stories. One of those stories we were talking about is the Gilgamesh. And you had to actually write it out. So two layers of memorization, one of them is can I get the words right? And the other one is can I memorize the stories? And in that information we're asking, it totally makes sense. We've got to do that memorization. We take our time machine forward. Don't make me count. That many years. That's totally in the morning. Right? This is from an amazing extant advertisement that was up in Paris, trying to lure people to the University of Toulouse, where you are allowed to, and again the word here is here, the books of Aristotle which were forbidden at Paris. The books of Aristotle were forbidden were physics, because it talked about the beginning of the world in a way that God would not approve it. Now, the information infrastructure at this time, you were not putting your grimy little hands on that book, because we're talking about the death of like 200 sheep, to make one single book or sheep, right? And I mean, so there were some places that would let you catch the books, but mostly you couldn't. Mostly you were in a catechetical model. That word brings familiar for anybody. Catechetical. If you have any Christian upbringing inside of schools, you'll have heard the catechisms of the word, catechetical is call and repeat.  You can't get the book. You can write a little snippet of it, but what you're trying to do is memorize. The technology infrastructure we had at the time was dead sheep. So we fly forward again. This is after the printing press. It's a couple hundred years after the printing press. Pestilotsi, my educational hero for Pestilotsi. Anybody, any Pestilotsi fans in the room?  He had so many fancastic ideas of how to build an education school. He'd build a school that would fall down and take it to the school. Build a school that would fall down and take it to the school. And then he had this idea that he wanted to teach the entire country of Switzerland how to read and how to do basic writing and read with it. And so he had this new take book. He would cut it down into little pieces. You might call it a textbook. And anybody, an uninstructed schoolmaster, or in this case, as the book that he wrote, Gertrude, could teach her children without understanding the content of the book. She'd just flip one page at a time to go through that process and be able to teach her kids without understanding the content. I just like a lot of our university classrooms. Only good when an uninstructed schoolmaster can use it all the time. And again, here we have a scarcity of teachers. You have scarcity of written texts. You have a scarcity of the books themselves. And we have a scarcity of the teachers involved in the process. So much of the history of education that we have is a question of scarcity. It used to be really, really hard. And this is actually, this is one of those books that they get. It's in that 200 cheap-stand phase. Really, really hard to come by, right? And a lot of our models are based on this. We left that behind. This is a shout-out to my buddy Aras. This is from something we did seven or eight years ago. Some of you were probably there. But now we've gone from that point of scarcity from that place of not having enough to a place of having too much. Anytime you're going out looking for information, you now have piles and piles instead of not a whole lot in that process. Those classrooms themselves are built to solve the problem of scarcity. We have only so many books. Let's bring everyone to the school, right? We only have perfect teachers. Let's bring them to the same place so we can put them together. And then all the things that come after that, the fact that a classroom is an hour long, the fact that all those structures that we build are all solutions for that problem of scarcity. And so many of the ways we run a classroom in the same. So there are ways in which a classroom is built to solve that. I'm going to ask my helpers to come along. We're going to try to know it. No, you don't call if I look behind you. Got you. At my... So one paper each, please. Sir. Welcome to class. We're having a test today. I'm not ready to get all the studies. I mean, I'll say that. I didn't get one. One of the most classroom students... I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I was surprised. I was surprised. Okay. So as you received your papers, does anybody here ever made an airplane before?  You'll notice that some people are evanted, if you don't care about that, we're more thankful for the matter. If you have failed, if you have failed to make a paper airplane, you can just back up that. One, two, three, fire! Yeah, well fast and great. And the rest of you fail. I applied my archery of counting to you. I have given you a real, you guys did really well. Unreasonable challenge and an unreasonable timeline. And I get to measure success. It's how far the planes went. In this case, the two people who cheated have managed to pass the test well done. It's just old silent. All right. Now that I know it, she's not going to fail. All right, so I get to decide those things. And this classroom style stuff comes from Chee Glasser. Super interesting 1984 and onward. Okay. So yeah, I understand that not all classrooms are like this. There are lots of fantastic educators out there. But at the end of the day, the end of the day, we have this assessment that's built into the vast majority of what we do, no matter how creative and wonderful your classroom is, the vast majority of us end up in Blue Microsoft's corporate model of counting the learnings that you've had. You know how creative you are. At some point, you end up stuck here somewhere. And she began around it a little, but broadly speaking, this is where we are. Okay. This fantastic article. This fantastic article by Nathan S. Baker trusts the history of chess inside of education. I will not bore you today with my long rant about chess. But the point is, is that as soon as you have our corporate counting, we have a game and that game is something you can win. That's set me to co-op students work for me during the pandemic. So fantastic kids, but they're all students who had no interest in open education. We're really, really not. Right. So I had engineers and kinesiology students. I had computer science students. I was like, there's a little overlap at least. Business, right. And but their co-op terms all got canceled. Their co-op terms all got canceled because of the pandemic. So they came to work for me, right. But what it ended up being is I had this really cool relationship of students I've never met before. They're students that I was not grading in any way. So we had all of these conversations around the game of school became the sort of theme of the, I think I had seven different groups for four months over and over again, came back to the same thing. I don't go to school to learn. That's where I just play the game of school. Right. If I want to learn this thing, I go home and do it. I don't get involved in that process because I understand that in a classroom, the only thing I'm really there for is to give the teacher what they want. The end of the day, no matter how it gets matched up, no matter how creative that person is, no matter how interesting the class, the end of the day, they're judging me. My job is to figure out what they want and find a way to give it to them. So our Bonnie and I's kids, I can't imagine, you can imagine, just give them the tone you've heard so far with my four children, what do you like? So you have two kids, education researchers, you go to the public school system and we've had to set them down and have this chat. You were involved in a game. You can go find out if your teacher is somebody who actually wants to teach you a creative way, but that's not true. Figure out the game, figure out what they want. Ask the game, don't get emotionally invested. Every once in a while, you find a great teacher and that's fantastic. You can love that person. So don't let the rest of the touch your heart. So much of our system is like, this is the, I've heard me give this example before. I apologize if this one touched my heart. One of those 72 students, we were two weeks into the term and working for it. So again, not my student. And I asked him about something and he goes, just stop, you know, look at someone's face when they finally realize something? And he goes, I have to apologize to you. Nice to see you. And he goes, I just, you've been asking for my opinion this whole time for two weeks. And I just, I assumed you were lying because no adult has ever asked me a question without already knowing the answer. Right? And for me, with those 72 students, with students I've spoken two cents, with faculty from around the world that spoke your two cents, this is what we end up doing. This is what our system leads us to. Not only the belief that there's a right answer, but the belief that someone else knows that right answer, the job of learning is to find the person who could tell me what that right answer is. Now, I don't have to map out the different ways in which our culture has gone down pear shaped because of this. Right? So people look to people who are very loud, very noisy. Get their answers to question. Not nuance, not complexity, not the breadth of a question, but a very loud answer that they can take home and that allows them to feel like they got the answer, to feel like they've done the test right. This is how, but this is how we've aligned the education system that we had to. Information was really hard to come. Right? It was really hard to access. Get it. The simple fact is, people have gone. And when we're in a time of abundance of information, again, I don't necessarily mean abundance in a good way. Right? We got abundance of everything. We don't just get the abundance of the things we want. We don't get just an abundance. Seymour Papper talked about the knowledge machine. Right?  The knowledge machine would go, well, actually it's a funny one because it turns out the giraffes don't sleep both ways. So maybe we've got a really good knowledge machine that figures that out. But that's not the knowledge machine we've got. The knowledge machine we've got will sell you a giraffe piggy bank. It will tell you about giraffes. It'll probably show you some poaching about giraffes.  Right? So our knowledge machine has all the things. And all of that is inside of this abundance. But given that abundance, given the misinformation and disinformation and the good information that's all there, how do we go about finding that right answer? Right? So the claim that I would make is the move from information scarcity to information abundance fundamentally affects what and how we live. Okay? So we go from how can I find that one thing I need to do? How do we make sure we don't lose the knowledge of how to make a moldboard plow? The most glory instrument. Anybody know moldboard plowers? No moldboard plow at UTSS. It's a plow that turns the soil over, that in northern Europe allowed them to plant more wheat and double the size of the towns. Basically double the amount of crops you get. Fantastically important piece of thing. If you do a Google search now, it'll take you five seconds to figure out how to build one. But if they lost that piece of information, they were toast. Or not toast. So we have something that can help us with this abundance. No problem. Right? We can just go to chat, JVT. It answers questions. If you call that answering, it's trained on the internet partially, partially on writing. Not necessarily where all my answers come from, but it's generative. So I'm going to take it from somebody else. It takes all of that information and puts it together and what could be better. And frankly, I can't imagine a government mid-level bureaucrat right now who is not using it. Having been in that role as well, having somebody roll into your office and go, I want a report done in two hours, I'm going to do it. It's a need to report it done. Right? So this is how we're going to be handling abundance in an awful lot of hidden cases inside of our culture. It's terrible. We're auto-tuning. Right? So in 1997 shares, I believe, some of us call, was the first auto-tune song to make a kajillion dollars. Exactly a kajillion dollars. But it takes all that sound and it smooths it all out so everything sounds the same. Right? It takes all the nuance out of the process and makes it palatable, which is basically what our AI systems do now. Well, palatable. It makes it through our scarcity models of checking. So people are sending them into your new journals and it's making it through that process. But there's so many scary pieces underneath this. If you've not seen this, this is from OpenAI's actual research. This isn't even somebody else doing it. These are the biased word descriptions that went along inside of the, it's GBT-3, but these are the biased word descriptions. These are the words that slip into the creation of the text. Right? So for all those people who are talking about AI in their classrooms right now, this has to be part of the conversation. Right? These things are slipping into the process. We've got a means of production problem here too. If you're not familiar with Tim and Giver's work, I partly advise it. The DARREN Institute, which is based on the Earthquitter account, is going to cast it following that sign. But the means of production is problematic here too. So this work does not get done in a vacuum. It does not get done in some kind of sanitized way. But if we don't have another option, this is so easy. It's so easy to post what things we want. Clearly there are other options out there. I don't know where this example came to my mind. Might have been some time yesterday, sharing a conversation on a wide just one of mine. Well, we can go out and create prefab solutions. The problem with this prefab teaching solution is that it has a lot of baked-in assumptions as well. Right? So ChatGPT bakes them in. Well, I almost say randomly because it's not really randomly. And I'm not going to describe myself as understanding it well enough to know. But it's kind of in there because it's in the Internet and because nobody cares. In this case, you have other things baked in. This is from teachers pay teachers. We have strictly a K12 system. But this is such a fun example. When we're talking about entrepreneurs and social responsibility, this person's example was the great job that Mark Zuckerberger has done as a social responsibility person. This is from 2050 when he said he was going to give away 99% as well. We got that way. What the point is is that here again, when we create these secondary and tertiary items, and again, I'm not saying textbooks are a bad thing. A lot of places where open textbooks make full sense. We need to not throw more hard things on. What the secondary and tertiary pieces we make have all this stuff baked in. All these things baked in. So we can try open education instead. Thank you. But I think it was two days ago, said we all know what we mean by open practice in this room. But by open education, I would argue we probably don't. What do we mean by that? So we want open access and open publishing, widening participation, open education practice. This is great. We're replacing $300 textbooks in this classrooms. I don't care if that's a step in the process. I don't care. It's fantastic. Because the amount of money that kids are paying on textbooks, I mean, if it means that we are going to have textbooks and again, I understand what we're publishing for in textbooks. But if it means we're having textbooks that are written by humans, because I don't think we're two or three years away from all textbooks that are written by humans, with all of those biases we saw the formates in, though publishing part of this means that we have direct access to humans doing deep thinking work that we can bring to our classrooms. But I think that part of it is super important to this process. Widening participation is an expression for those of you who are from my side of the pond that we aren't as familiar with. So I will go ahead and explain it anyway for those of you who are as uneducated as I was. This is something we should all be doing all the time. This is about making more room for more people taking away different kinds of barriers and making our schools places that are open to everyone and not just as there's a door open and if you know how to get in, you can come in, but open in ways where we go out and help you get into school. This is obviously something we should do. This part of open education is a constant. Open educational practice. I was going to go ahead and talk about what I was doing in terms of this, but almost every definition I find is about, is directly connected to the widely definition of open educational practice, which is about using open educational resources. Again, the piece here that I'm interested in is high-quality open educational resources, because once we do this, we've already pre-filtered the content coming into our classrooms, and that's the piece that I think is really important. Because that abundance that we were talking about earlier does not contain a filter. We can use ChatGPT as a filter.  We can use things like women's learning as a filter, not my favorite filter, but it's a filter. It allows you to get to, we can use really good high-quality resources, the filter, so that the content that comes into our classroom is already high-quality, having no relationship to the regular human experience that anybody has when they try to learn anything. The thing that I find most important in all of this is how does somebody who takes three science classes in university as part of their English degree learn how to evaluate science? How do they learn how to deal with the thing that they read on Facebook so that they make good decisions, so they become good voting citizens who can make good decisions? I don't even think that to make my decisions. That'd be profitable. But I don't need them to make the ones that are based on my values, I just need them to make decisions based on values. Any values, frankly. So, 2011, some guy, we need a pedagogical abundance. I agree with him. At some level we need to be thinking about this, and one of the intersections of this has to be about the abundance of content that we have. The abundance that every person who comes into our classrooms, when they leave our classroom and forget everything we said, and go back and try to relearn it, that they have the skills they need to relearn that based on whatever they're confronted with. Because it's not the thing that came out of our classroom, it's not the thing that was counted in our classroom that they take away, it's the skills that they pick up that allow them to succeed successful citizens have that abundance of inspiration, have that abundance of challenges. We have uncertainty. I figured it, so there are two kinds, right? There's uncertainty as in not currently known. I can't figure out whether I should do this, but there's basically a right or wrong answer. Mostly right, mostly wrong. We need to be able to solve this kind of uncertainty. The one that really interests me is the not fully knowable. We had a couple of people yesterday talking about wicked problems. Perfect example of that. Should I be using fossil fuels in my house? So many different questions that we have that don't have those clear answers that will never have an appearance. There's no right way of doing it. There's only the process that we go through. There's only the adaptations that we do, which when we ask the question, the problem kind of shifts on us, right? Two solutions to this kind of problem. One, you continue to work through it, use the skills you learn, and the other one is you find someone really going to tell you what to do, right? That second version is the way that we've created our education system. Someone has already answered. My job is to find the person who has the right answer and listen to me. So this is one of my favorite examples to use. You get deal with uncertainty, you're in a classroom, you're pulling up random content to get faced with one. It's the process by which we deny the content that I think is beneficial. So I ask you as a group, how's my man doing? I will say historically for that one dude going, he's doing great. Maybe he don't offer that thing, but I heard he's doing a lot. What can we do to help him? What's the advice you have for him? Move for loot?  There's no clear answer to this. There's no clear, we can tell, we know there's a problem, but it's the evaluation process and a decision involved with that process that matters. So I end up, and I leave you with three recommendations for a pedagogy of abundance. It's part of it. They're the ones that I have come to with this process. So end of random. Pretty. And an open education approach, whatever you call it, three pieces. The first one is we need to constantly, constantly demonstrate our, you know, the expression I don't know has to be the first one that comes out of our mouths all the time in our classroom. If we're taking up the random things that come across and then I do this way so I don't find an answer to this, post it up, we're going to talk about each of the ones you found. The first thing we always have to come back to is I don't know what that is. I've never seen that thing. I'm going to show you what I've been learning more about. This has to be the starting place. The idea that you've known already is the biggest problem with this whole process. It's not just you, but your students too. And it has to come, the idea of expertise, a discussion we had two days ago, an idea of expertise has to start with this word. Not, I know everything and I walk into my classroom already knowing all the things. All right, so that's the first piece I write. The second one is the model made me trust, right? So I go to this place to read this person for this reason and this person has become part of my community in this role, right? This kind of modeling is something that can break down the training of 12 years that our students have at least. 10,000 hours as an important part of learning that they've had before they've come into our classroom that teaches them that there is just the right answer. That's all you're looking to find, but rather that process of how we come about to know who we learn to trust, what we learn to trust and why we do it. And the last piece is we need to show those values that we have, I think, that allow us to choose not just the right answer, but the answer for the reasons that we think are important to us, right? And model that choosing in a way that shows that. So that humility, trust and values don't count. We're not going to measure those things, but they matter. But I think that at the end of the day we take that OER piece and bring it into our classrooms. We make that part of the way we come to know, right? We can share that new way of going about thinking knowledge that fits into the information you've constructed. Best. I'll just share a quick story. Oh, there you have it. Like that. I've been standing by at Roopney Best all the time. It's my annual sequence. We went into this workshop. Was it a 19th workshop, lady? It was a 19th workshop. Okay. We went into this workshop for some of the likes and designing booths. Dave and I sat down at the front, and then George stood up and said, right, Dave struck at this workshop, and that's the first day I've heard him like this. He walked out of the door and laughed. He didn't even stay. And it did not have a title. There was no title. The important thing is no leave this workshop. He walked out of the door. And to be fair, they sat up and ran at two hours. So, Dave's given the thing out. Maybe I still need to think about it a little bit more, but I didn't quite catch the leak from abundance of information, values, humility, and trust, and open education. To me, this is a disconnect there. Maybe you can help me see that. Sure. So, with open education has a lot of framing, right? So if you look at open education as the open license part of open education, and the framing I'm talking about is open. If you talk about open education as open to different content, open to the internet, open to whatever information comes in, open to the abundance of the internet, then you have a different series of skills you need to be able to filter. In a normal classroom, you come in having, say, in a normal classroom, again, I know about all of her teaching experience, but in a classroom, you come in having decided six months ago what the content is. Everything is pre-filtered and everything is pre-decided. So none of that process of evaluation ends up being part of the conversation. And that fit the experience the vast majority of people would have had 35 years ago when they went about learning something outside their classroom. So that represented what I think I'm doing a better job of explaining this to you. It represented the way that somebody would learn when they left your classroom. They would go to a library. They would go to a bookstore. They would find content that was also pre-packaged for them, and they would use the same approach. Now, no one is going to the library. Almost no one is going to the library. Librarians are wonderful places. I love libraries. Nobody is going for a library. That's where there's some questions. So the skill set that you need when you come into the classroom is not that, how do I use a pre-evaluated published textbook? It's how do I deal with the random content that comes in? And that skill set that I think you need includes humility, the application of values, and effective trust. Boom! Can we go back and say that as part of the conversation? Anybody else? Yeah, go ahead. Yeah, so abundancy leads to uncertainty. And scarcity saw certainty. Certainty is the defensive mechanism we need to use for scarcity, right, because we need to switch it up so that you can keep it in. Keeping it in that random sense. It needs to say things softly. You know what?  So I was sort of thinking of Nietzsche, and God was dead, and then this is wrong. He needs Philip, and we are now staging masculine background for both. And I was also thinking in that abundance, what's kind of lost? Can you sort of mention this agricultural example? Yeah. And there's sort of like the reach of flowers from nature, and trees have kind of been lost and have abundance, maybe. So your thoughts on those sort of names? Um, that's one false comment. Yeah, totally. I think I'm going to let you continue on that. So I'm not sure how to respond to that. That's not going to happen. It's not. I don't know. Let me think about it. So yeah, I'm thinking about it. Anybody else? I think. Yeah. Oh, yeah. Sure. Yeah. Also, librarians speak of the kinds of open nature. But not a teaching librarian. Do you think there is a place for, I mean, I know of librarians who do this, you know, helping people find their way in abundance. Yeah. Yeah, and we accept it that people don't come to the store anymore. But, you know, it's where would you place the role of the teaching skills of librarians? Literally it is. Yeah. No, I think the librarians who are making this adaptation, right? I know something people would probably know. Also, it's a fine number. It is, you know, library is about solving the information landscape that we're in, right? They're about navigating their information landscape and absolute who better to develop those. Again, I think it's obviously there are skills from scarcity that still apply. If there are new skills that need to come in, definitely. Yeah, I think we need people who are specifically working. Thank you. So I, it seemed like when you're talking about knowledge scarcity, at the beginning it had to do with access to materials. Like, do you have a rock we can scribble on or under lamps to make the book? And I'm thinking of some of the work of other colleagues, Indigenous knowledge and understandings. When I bring this home, how can I make sure I'm capturing understanding that not all knowledge was on sheepskin and rocks? A great point. Socrates, the pagerist, said that all this writing stuff was terrible because people were going to lose the wisdom that was involved in it. You were just going to be able to put it from recall and not because you actually wouldn't have understood it. You could actually actually do it. I mean, it's a, even in the Western tradition, certainly. I think when you look at Indigenous development, so in my, in my country, this has become a really big issue since the 94th or the 7th Civil War, terrible history deterrence. I have, I was fortunate enough to work with an elder of last year working on Indigenous Ways of Knowing Ego. There's a huge learning experience for me in terms of that. In terms of the ways in which story carries more than information, it carries knowledge, it carries wisdom, it carries experience, and the ways in which it changes by the different Indigenous peoples that are carrying that story. And also the ways in which the people I was working are like a different humility with which they approach to this project. I think there's ways of learning inside of all of that, but again, they're not just about information about the Ego piece. That humility piece is, is a big part of at least the Indigenous people that I was working with. I think that's, the more we can get involved in that, the more that we can find ways to learn from that, because I heard about that. It can be kind of a both-and even back then, but we didn't capture it. Okay. Totally, totally. Yeah, go ahead. Yes, it's a great follow-up from my, my, my lady and colleague. Would you have sympathy with the town information? Let's just see. It's often used to describe much of what we're talking about, which I think about as a soft applied discipline information, let's just see. Yeah. And I think it's a good connection possibly, if not know we are, through the channel of the discussion that people landscape to let on. Information, let us see things, let us see what we're always considering, for sure. Yeah, no information, let's just, data, let's just get phones. And again, I'm not, I would not try to define either of those. Anybody who is working in this direction, I'm happy with them. Whoever it belongs to, I'm okay with that too. In terms of the definitions, I certainly wouldn't be bald, but I'd say we're not, I think it's inside. It's outside, so you know. No, something go over here. No, no. Go ahead. Comments in the question. Is it more of a comment than a question on time? I appreciate your honesty. That intersection, the first person to ask the question, I'm sorry, I don't know your name, but that intersection between abundance, you know, the chest and values and open that space. I see a lot of work done by people in this room and people who are into the spirit and the work around critical social justice to open. So I see a lot of that work happening. So the definition of open educational practices that went on your slide, I think it was a slightly dated direction. What's the vote? The vote makes, not only in your context, but it's not the dominant one necessarily in Europe. Here's the part where it needs to go on a year. I was trying to find the definition that I could use it, actually have that out there. And is there one in York that I've ever thought about? Yeah, you're in South Africa. I mean, we'll talk. Because I'm more, no, no, I'm more than half, but I went looking for it and I'm like, oh, I can't call it. I can't find it. Because again, I'm not trying to adopt anybody else or co-op, anybody else's definitions. And I'm more than happy to use different ones. But yeah, for sure. But anyway, the point is not so much about the definition itself, but just that the evolving understanding, as I see it, of open educational practices, is about letting go and decoupling from who we are. It doesn't necessarily include who we are. It may include who we are. But it's about co-creating knowledge. The question is, the way you start the conversation about abundance, it's not necessarily where the conversations start when we start with open people or open. So just wanting to have a step back to start a conversation where you start with it today. Because that seems to some of them everybody has something to do rather than people saying, let's open again. So I think it could be generative to start a conversation in a different place. With abundance or with open? With abundance. Oh, yeah. When you start with this way. Yeah, yeah, yeah, no, that's exactly why. So I learned the term open education from Alec Gouro's. And I've used it in it. That being one of those words, we explore this in the Go-GN session, one of those words that I find lacks explanatory power. Right? Because it ends up being so conflicted, plus so many different ideas. The word that I discovered lacks explanatory power from two days ago was expert. Because people have so many different ideas of it that it doesn't get to where you need to get it as quickly. Whereas this abundance argument has been a really easy one. It's been a pathway for me to get into this conversation. Because for mine, so I teach, right? And I just finished teaching pre-service students so that in Canada, that's students who will be K-12 teachers. There's so much deep programming that needs to happen. Right? But they know what abundance is. Right? They have an intrinsic sense of it. It's human. Plus they don't have a pre-existing definition flow. So I can drop in there, set up that conversation without fighting back against all their preconceptions about what that is. I ran the open one today because of the audience. But mostly I don't use it anymore. I may say it, I make reference to it, I need it in my head, but I've stopped using it because I end up in arguments with people. I'm like, how terrible are the definitions? Right? I'm an uncertainty guy. Like, really, I don't care about the definitions. To me, they're just exercises and power. Right? I get the control of the definition. So I'm trying to get to the point. So yeah, I have had more. Because that's exactly why I'm using it.  I'm going to go back there. I'm going to do a thing. Thank you for that. But thank you on a publication date. So wonderful analogy about auto-tune. It's really great. Like, because I think we're always trying to maximize or minimize, we're maximization of minimization machines. We're trying to, like, we, you know, maximize or minimize something. And so that's, it's brilliant because we get so focused on something. But the provocation, yeah, is, I believe in life after love is an epic song. I think it's something basic. Look, I am not going to stand here and criticize you. No way. I do not deserve that. I am not worthy of that conversation. It's all well taken. Very much. That's the presentation. I think, like, being down from, I'm sort of, I think I'm following all of the steps necessarily of your argument, but I appreciate there's a booklet version which probably, you know, takes a while. So my question is really about, about your kind of recommendations, demonstrate the abilities, on all the way to show how it is with our values. And just sort of the language around that, because you've sort of given this kind of, essentially a sort of critique of pedagogical authority, in some of this stuff, the right answer and so on. Then when you frame your kind of recommendations, almost repeats a sort of authority model. Demonstrate your humility to your students, to your learners, model the way we trust to your learners. Show how we choose to your learners. And I don't know if that's a conscious thing or if it's just because you're speaking to the educators and it's inevitable that there is this sort of relationship there, but if it is inevitable there's that kind of power relationship there, how does your critique of that authority sort of cohere with that? I have no problem with mentors though. I think it makes total sense and I think the pedagogical models that support clear learning objectives, this sort of John Hattie to those of you who are familiar approached to education, had no problem criticizing that and maintaining the partnership as a really important part of the process. I don't think that there are a dozen people in this room who've been mentors to me and have demonstrated the way that they work and are happy for that mentor here. I don't think that's a problem for the thing that students are happy for. That's right. Oh yeah. I really find this very inspiring and you told me that you were doing my own practice over there. That's great. Well I have a question. That comes up with this about, so Michael, is it both that other people will actually communicate to me don't convey that to us people. When I talk with friends who teach engineering or hard science things, ah, when I talk about this, they said, but yeah, you work in humanities, language, you know, all these things are quite, you know, you can start the journey from different places and you know, having this uncertainty and this basically is part of the learning objectives. So very well, but I have to train people and educate people about that so that the plane, you know, the plane that we threw that it doesn't crash, and actually respect over the road about the environment, et cetera, et cetera. So how do you reverse to get all these riskors and these ideas? Yes, we do. Please, Michael. Please, Michael. Please, Michael. Please, Michael. Please, Michael. Please, Michael. Yeah. With people who haven't teach in all the platforms, which is probably, I'm not very good at this. Will you take architecture as an instance? Okay, but yeah. Think about the building not the building. Okay. So I was at T. Delft last year. We're at a conference and there they're coming to grips with the idea that architecture, architects in the future will no longer be using new materials inside of the Netherlands because they can't conscience using the name of the book. They kept talking about cobalt running out of 23 months. Apparently this is a terrible thing that's happening to all of us. They're running out of cobalt. It's important for reasons. I don't understand about it. But apparently it's that way. So they're looking at not building new buildings, not using new materials, but being architects. Right. And so now they're being struck with all of these other issues that are not true and false questions, but involve all these certain concerns that's becoming a part of the ladder they're working in. It's true of all for them. Always be true of all the questions. Right. So making the paper airplane, there are turns out a bunch of different ways to make a paper airplane. Anyways around making a paper airplane, but this is such a small part of the design process. Figuring out how to get your funding from the person who's going to help you design, like allow you to design your plane. It's actually way more about the engineering process. And that is a subtle sort of a, and that I think is the argument today that making sure there are facts in the world I'm not suggesting that there are there are definitely processes that people need to do. I do not want my plane falling out of the sky. And frankly, I don't want the person on the assembly line who's putting the plane together get all creative about where they're going. It's not that everything is like there are definitely things that I think in every field there are things like that. Sadly, we still make people use citation, like APA citation might be the same kind of form and format sort of thing that's great and terrible for any people with childs. But we still do it. We have those in every field, I think. Are there more in engineering? Maybe. But when I had 35 engineering students were for me, you know what they couldn't do? Deal with any kind of uncertainty. Even if there was a right answer, they couldn't do it either. So I have so many great arguments for them to do as well. So, I was interested to hear, so have you not in an age of abundance of definition as you turn to the easy one, the students, if you'd confidence learning from feminine pedagogies, theory, and perhaps my journey in philosophy started there, which is feminist theory. That was the thing that opened my eyes the first time. I try, certainly don't represent it because it's not my place to speak for it, but it's certainly been something that I try to incorporate in philosophy. So, what theories did you use? In this? No, in the journey. Oh, that was 30 years ago. Oh, yeah. That's great. So, we should talk later. There's some great stuff coming out recently which references all the other stuff. Great. Thank you so much. Thank you. Have a lot of fun. Have a good night. Thanks. Thank you very much. Have a good one. Thank you.


All right guys yet another book review. I just I just read so many books about running So I just want to share them all with you guys So I just thought I'd do another book review straight away today We're gonna review this one anatomy for runners. Stay tuned So as I said, I I do read a lot of running books both the sort of philosophical type the biography type but especially I enjoy the What can I say the educational type, you know learning about anatomy physiology Exercise physiology planning scheduling of training that sort of thing. I just reviewed this book the serious runners handbook I just made a review just now So if you haven't seen that review, you might want to check it out There's gonna be a link in the description to that review as well as Here I'll put a card there so you can check it out if you want after this video obviously Today though and now we're gonna review this book anatomy for runners So I got this book when I was injured last year about a year ago. I had some issues with my Shins, I mean it wasn't really shin splints. It was more like I Don't know I was even I went even to the doctor to make sure it wasn't a stress fracture and it wasn't but it took me out for a few months and During that time like a lot of people when you're injured you sort of start searching For answers and you want to learn, you know, how can I prevent this from happening again? injury prevention and it's it's really Extremely important as a runner because the most important thing in terms of your training and your progress is Consistency, you know, if you're out for a few weeks if you're out for a few months It has a huge impact on your training So the best thing to do is to be conservative and training and to keep building that to progress slowly and steadily and Consistently and so in order to do that we need to take care of our bodies We need to take care not to get injured and that's what this book is really good for I read it while being injured I was highly motivated Unlocking your athletic potential for health speed and injury prevention by J. Dickery, I don't know how that's pronounced the curry dickery Excellent book excellent book basically what it is is a book about Your musculoskeletal system basically it deals with how your muscles work How your tendons work? What are tendons anyway with our muscles? Ligaments how they heal how they build how they're affected by training and especially bad Mechanics problematic Running styles and how they they're problematic and how you can fix a lot of these things by Stretching by strength training by mobility work let's read through the Index here to give you an idea of some of the contents chapter 1 run like an athlete Chapter 2 baby biomechanics the physics of running. Let's take a quick look at that the physics of running So here's a little bit of physics basically just how how compression works how tension works What's share a picture of a healthy collagen fibers, which is what is in the in a tendon how they look in a micro Graph it's a it's a it's a nice book colorful and sort of interesting to read a lot of cool Figures and stuff like that I Love this kind of stuff, you know analyzing your your gate your biomechanics this book helped me understand What tendons do what is a tendon and what does it really do and how does it? How can a tendon and its stiffness for example?  There's also such thing as too flexible of a tendon and How does the tendon interact with the muscle and is the muscle stronger than the tendon or is the tendon stronger than the muscle and how does that affect your Potential for injury and your potential for performance and the other thing here, which was very interesting to me was mobility because I realized that I do have an issue with my ankle mobility and that Is not necessarily good I'll get into that in another video the details of that But I learned a little bit about why it's important to have good mobility in certain areas of your legs and your body in general and It talks a little bit about how to sort of work on that some exercises and And You know it talks about foam rolling a little bit and self-massage and and posture as well Which is more like an everyday thing to keep attention to You know, this is the book that I kind of wanted to read again There's one of those books where I read it. I learned so much But I think if I read it again, I'll learn even more because it's really important to focus on these things as a runner as an athlete you just There's a lot of things to think about you don't want to just go out and train train train train train You also need to recover recover recover training and recover is two different things But they are really part of the same overall plan, you know, you need both likewise Injury prevention and working on that mobility working on that on those little things, you know That's that's also hugely important as an athlete. So this book sort of helped me Learn and get put attention to some of those things. Here's what the Alan Webb Has to say about it. He's the American record holder in the mile He says this is the best resource on running biomechanics and injury prevention the corrective exercises I've become part of my training routine Improved my performance and reduced my injuries. That's pretty good. So If you're interested in checking it out, please do so. I'll put a link in the description It's gonna be an affiliate link will take you to Amazon and if you want to buy it We'll get a little bit of a commission for sending you there But the price actually remains the same for you anyway, so it's a good way to support us And you get yourself a good quality book as well where you can learn lots of good things about What I just said Alright, I love books. I have lots more cool books to review for you guys in the Months and years to come and I'm constantly acquiring new books Of course, I have one coming in the mail in a few days. I'm gonna start reading that and Yeah, love it. Love it. So let me know in the comments. What books you're reading at the moment If you're read any if you read this book, please tell me all about what you think about it Stay tuned for more videos, of course If you haven't subscribed, please do so click the link or click the button below where it says subscribe So you can stay up-to-date with all my book reviews gear reviews and of course running logs and training talks and my progress towards I don't know Ultramarathon greatness. Can I do that? I don't know at least my running progress. I love running. I love sharing it with you guys Hope you're having a good day. See you around


What's up everyone, it's your girl, Kenzie here from Lane Sports Cards and I'm Ripon 2021. Panini Falls Football Hobby, two box full case break number 52 tiered random teams. Again, here's a look at the random results. You can always find these at lane sportscards.com underneath the results tab and the link is also in chat for you. Here we go. Good luck. First up here, Keenan Allen for the Chargers. Chargers are the first hit. Quad, showcase to 10. Najee Harris for the Steelers. Nice two-color football glove. Relics, they're the 10th. Four of five, we've got Honorable Ink of Otis Anderson for the Giants. Otis Anderson. We've got Honored Ink, Colias Campbell, another green one of five, Ravens this time around. 2019 NFL Man of the Year. We've got four of 10. James Lofton, Packers and Bills. Chargers is Dakota, Bills is S. So this will be a random at the end. We've got nice Star Swax signatures to 15. Jalen Hertz Eagles. Brayden Kay, nice hit there. We'll mag that one up for you. And to 20, we've got rookie debut signatures, Najee Harris. Steelers. Not sure. Steven Seat with the Steelers here first. We've got Sapphire to 10, Bill, Stefan Diggs. The Sapphire, that is seven of 15. Sorry, I read those numbers completely wrong. Seven of 15, comes with a diamond guarantee there. Then we've got 225 of 20, Jamar Chase on the rookie three colored patch bangles. Bernie S, Jamar Chase. And we've got dual patch auto four of 10, Russell Wilson, Seahawks, boom! Chris G on the tier two team. Nice, Russell Wilson. First briefcase there. It does, huh? Rookie showcase quad to 20, Elijah Moore for the Jets. Elijah Moore. Nice one here. Dual patches to 25, Patrick Mahomes the second and Josh Allen, 19 of 25. Chiefs and Brayden Kay and Bill. Mike S will be a random at the end as well. Rookie debut signatures to 20, Niko Collins, Texas. Niko Collins, we've got one of one, going to the box, rookie auto Jalen Darden, boom! Harper B with the box on the one of one rookie auto. Very nice. We've got greats four of 20, James Harrison for the Steelers. James Harrison, four of 20. Oh, this one's sweet. How about two out of five Patriots? Drew Bledsoe. Two of five, Hilton T. Heck yeah. I'll mag that. And to 20, dual patch auto, rookie Davis Mills. Kaboom! Texans, William L. There you go, William. We'll mag this one for ya as well. We're gonna go here. We've got another sapphire, three of 15. Jalen Hertz for the Eagles. Brayden K. Brayden K, three of 15 on the Hertz. Next we've got rookie showcase quad, seven of 25 rookie Niners, Trey Lance. James C. with the Niners, Trey Lance. And last but not least, out of flawless for tonight, we've got rookie auto, 10 of 10 bookends. Trevor Lawrence, boom! S. with the Jags. Heck yeah, nice hit there. All right, that will do for the case. Give me one second to set up these two randoms we gotta do here. Dual relic flawless. Got Chiefs, Bills, Chiefs, Bills. Packers, Bills, Packers, Bills. Again, doing a random for the Mahomes in Allen Patch and then the James Lofton that has Packers and Bills pictured as well as both logos on the back there. Again, whatever teams end up on top after the random, we'll take home the cards. Got six and one that is seven times. Seven times on the randoms. We're gonna do the relic first of Mahomes and Allen. Good luck. One, two, three, four, five, six, seven. Bills, getting the dual. Bills and seven times on the auto between the Packers and Bills. Good luck. What was Packers, Packers, Bills, correct? Was it, okay, seven times, here we go. One, two, three, four, five, six, seven. Packers, taking home that auto. Packers. All right, let's do the recap for our relics. We had the Mahomes Allen. Again, that's going to the Bills. Elijah Moore Jets, Nashi Harris Steelers, Kenan Allen, Chargers. Then we had the James Lofton which will be going Packers. James Harrison Steelers, Nico Collins Texans, Nashi Harris Steelers, Colias Campbell-Ravens, Otis Anderson Giants. We had Shrey Lancequad to 25 Niners. Jalen Hertz on the Sapphire to 15. Davis Mills Texans, Drew Bledsoe, Patriots, one of one Jalen Darden Bucks. Russell Wilson to 10. Seahawks, Jamar Chase to 20. Bengals, Stefan Diggs, Sapphire to 15. A Jalen Hertz, Star-Swatch Signatures to 15. And a Trevor Lawrence 10 of 10. That'll do it for flawless. We've got our 10 box mixer coming up in a few.


Hey stampers, welcome to another week of Watch It Weekly Wednesday. I'm Aubrey, part of the Stampin' Jill creative team, and today I'm excited to share with you a technique that I came up with using this fun stamp set, the Gorgeous Leaves stamp set. So cute. I love this one. It's perfect for fall, but it also is super fun with these background stamps right here in the set. And I wanted to show you a little technique that I came up with to make a fun background using those stamps. So I'm going to start with this fun kind of wood grain stamp that's in there. And I have just a crumb cake piece of cardstock here and early espresso ink. And I'm just going to stamp all over this, but I'm going to do it kind of strategically. I'm going to stamp off first and just kind of give myself a little base here in the background. And when you stamp using a stamp that's kind of like this, a background stamp, but it doesn't cover the whole background, one of the tips is to change the direction of the stamp so it doesn't look like you're using just the same stamp over and over and over again. So I'm going to just kind of rotate it as I go down my page, but I do want all of my wood grain to be the same direction. So I'm still going to do it all vertically like this. I'm just going to rotate my stamp as I do it. So I'm just stamping it off and I'm going to just kind of get that base line down here just like that and finish up that last row just like that. OK, but then I want to add a few more spaces where it's not all so uniform in color so that it looks a little more realistic like it could actually be like a wooden gate or something. So I'm just going to add another stamp in here and over here and like maybe I want this corner to be kind of darker because on real wood you have darker places and you have lighter places that look like a distressed piece of wood. Just like that. I feel pretty happy about that. So let me show you the card I came up with using this background here. This is the card, it says much gratitude. So I used also the intricate leaves dies and I added a cute little focal point there on my card, but I just love that background look. This stamp set has quite a few stamps that would be great for using it as a background. This one and this one and even these little leaves back here too. So I want to show you some other ideas that we've come up with using those as the background and then also putting the leaves and the other things on top to have a focal point on top of that. So let me show you here. So the next one is with this cool kind of watercolor-y stamp. So here's some ideas of colors. This is just with some gray and kind of doing that same thing where you have the darker and then the lighter and you just do it all over. This one has different blues in here. So this is with some different colors and that's with some reds and oranges. Looks super cool. Here's the one that I came up with on a whole card. So this is just mint macaroon and I just did the whole background like that and then my focal point with much gratitude and then here's one using the little leaves here. You can see in the background, super fun. This is a great stamp set coming into fall to use with the leaves and all the pretty backgrounds in it but it's also a great stamp set for any time you need a background. You can grab it and fill in that background of your stamp set. You can do it instead of using designer series paper if you don't have any on hand or other things like that. It's so much fun. If you have any questions or if you want to visit our website, make sure to visit us at stampinjill.com and thanks so much for watching and we'll see you next time for another Watch It Weekly Wednesday.