Okay, we're gonna go ahead and get started. I'm Karen Borchardt and I'm with Phase 2 Technology and this is the Drupal Marketplace, how what we sell and how we sell it affects the community, our clients in Drupal. So I am gonna moderate this panel today with our wonderful guest. We have a panel of guests who are all pretty involved in the product space in Drupal. It's a small but growing group of people who are involved in this space, so we're gonna get to some questions and then certainly open it up for questions. So this is Moshe Weitzman from Aquia, Seth Brown from Lullabot, and Ryan Sarama, did I get it? Yes, from Commerce Guys. And again, I'm Karen and I'm from Phase 2 Technology. So I'm just gonna give us a little tiny bit of context and then we're gonna get to the panelists so that you can hear what you actually wanna hear about. So there's a lot of people talking about products in Drupal, a lot of people talking about it. In DrupalCon London, we had a, Moshe and I sat on a panel with Robert Douglas around the very volatile topic of apps and app stores. The Distribution Summit in San Diego brought a lot of people together talking about business models around distributions that they've built, distributions that they wanna build, distributions that don't exist that they wanna see, and how to make a living with those. And the Drupal Product Summit in Rome brought forth the idea of this, kind of should there be one marketplace that rules them all in Drupal and actually that turned into a really kind of a difficult discussion. There's a lot of issues that come up, a lot of issues that come up there and a lot of things that come up around open source in the community. It's just a really sticky problem, really, really tough one. So a lot of questions, how do we build products? How will monetized products ruin the community? Why is it okay to sell services but not products? Should there be a single Drupal app store? I promised I wasn't gonna say the word app store today. Can we make a living with products and does GPL prevent successful business model for open source products? So a lot, a lot of questions and very, very few answers to some of those things. So really what we've kind of come up with in terms of what we see the challenge being is basically everyone wants to make a good living in this space. That's why we're here. We're able to be at this conference today because partly because we make at least part of our living in Drupal and in this space. And products are attractive because they offer you a way to build once and sell many times or that's what you hope, right? So there's an interest and products are really attractive. But products can feel really proprietary and locked up and not so open sourced depending on how they're built and how they're released, how they're contributed to and how they're used. So nobody wants to harm and sacrifice the community because that's what allows us to make a living in Drupal in the first place. And so that's the question, is how do we solve this challenge? How do we solve this problem? And that's what these guys are gonna answer now. So it's gonna be great. I'm gonna let each of these guys introduce themselves and tell a little bit about, we're gonna start with just to ask you each to tell a little bit about what you do with products and what you're doing with products in this space and what you see as the big challenges. So we'll start there. And we'll start with Moshe. Hi everyone. My name is Moshe Weitzman and I work for Acquia. And we have quite a few Drupal products. You might have heard of Drupal Commons. That's a distribution that we primarily manage along with the rest of the community. For intranets and communities, some of the popular Drupal Commons sites are eBay and PayPal. They're developer communities run on Drupal Commons. We have the conference Organizing Distribution Cod and we also have a hosting platform and a support platform where we support our products and everyone else's products. Hi everybody. My name is Seth Brown. I am Lullabot's Director of Operations and Informally Development Manager and sort of Director of Professional Services. So I get new job titles all the time but no raises.  It's good to be the king.  We started as a training and consulting business and then became primarily a development shop, a services shop. But throughout our existence, we've tried to sort of bootstrap and spin off products and sort of our most successful examples and there are definitely some unsuccessful examples that you probably haven't heard of. Our successful examples include Drupalize.me which is a learning site for Drupal videos and then a hosted video platform called Vidiola.tv which is actually the foundation for Drupalize.me that basically allows businesses to monetize video on the web. And Vidiola lets you sort of build a Netflix on-demand subscription based platform or an Amazon sort of rent or pay-per-view system or even a Hulu ad sponsored. And we offer that as a hosted service so that's kind of where we've ventured into products. I'm Ryan Zorama from Commerce Guys. My title belies how I might be a little removed from the discussion here because I'm the VP of Community Development which means I don't actually have to worry about how we make money with our products. I've been leading the development of Drupal Commerce which also includes the development of, I'll call it a pseudo distribution right now which is called Commerce Kickstart. And I say pseudo because it doesn't do much more than an installation profile. But of course the plans that I just blogged about right before the conference involved making this look and function much more like the lovely products that are produced by the guys that are on the stage with me. It's not to say that we are ignorant of the need to make money or to really like productize what we offer around the distributions. But thus far our primary focus has been on increasing adoption and really bringing in people from outside of the Drupal community and using the distributions of the products as maybe training templates or launch points to sort of draw people into using Drupal for the first time and then certainly using Drupal Commerce to build their next e-commerce projects. And then building up this pool of users that will then become ideally customers, paying customers in the future. Great and you're certainly not removed from this conversation because we're certainly gonna talk about community contribution to products. So and I'm just to round it out, I am the director of products with Face2 and Face2 maintains three main distributions open public which is a distribution building platform for the public sector and for government organizations and nonprofits. Open Publish which is a publishing platform for online news and media. And then Open Atrium which is a collaboration and project management tool for everyone. So those are the distributions that we run and we have various efforts around those products but we mainly sell services, we're mainly a services firm and do a lot of work on customizing and building sites upon those products for our customers. So, here we go. Okay, so we're gonna start actually with that question which is most of us here are from services backgrounds and so I guess we'll and I'm gonna ask these questions and ask one or two of these guys to answer each one and then we'll open it up at the end for your many questions. So get that whole huge list of questions ready so you can stand up there. So we'll start with this one and we'll start with Seth actually. So coming from a service background, what makes the alternatives attractive in terms of or why look beyond services at all? If you're in services and you're doing that, why look beyond that? Sure, great question, Karen. Thanks. So I come from a services background. I was actually with a company called BlueTent Marketing for six years that's well represented here in the audience and we were primarily a services firm and then I came to Lullabot and we're primarily a services firm. I would say that probably 85% of our revenues come from services and not from our products so our products are still not necessarily the lion's share but what are the cons of services? Well, basically it comes down to selling hours, right? If you sell an hour, you can never sell that hour again, there's no leverage. And as this marketplace is maturing, there's more and more firms doing Drupal services and it gets harder and harder to differentiate and I think the laws of supply and demand kick in and you sort of have this commoditization of services. There's a downward pressure on rate. It gets harder to do value billing. There's a story that I always love about value billing which is there's a guy with the Rolls Royce and he can't get it to run so he's kind of exhausted every mechanic in town and there's this specialist that's far away but apparently this guy's the best. So the guy gets his some friends and they roll the Rolls Royce or they tow it over to this mechanic and the mechanic comes out, takes a look, pulls out a rubber mallet, opens the hood, hits the engine, the thing starts up again and seems to be working fine and the mechanic comes and says, okay, that'll be $1,000. The guy's like, $1,000, you just hit it with a rubber mallet. And he says, well, it's $1 for the labor in 999 for knowing where to hit it. And I think that's the way to sort of make a services business go but it's difficult as there's more competition in the marketplace to continue to sustain those prices. So products let you leverage your work and sort of build once, sell multiple times. I think that's also a bit of a fable because there's all kinds of things that go with servicing a product and having an SLA and wearing a pager and all that fun stuff. But I think that's where sort of the intrigue of being a product business comes from instead of a services business. But we're definitely trying to not throw out the baby with the bathwater. All right. Motion's good. We'll chime in on that one. Yeah, why don't you chime in on that one? All right, I'll chime in best I can. So Acquia doesn't do a lot of professional services. That's definitely not a focus for our company. It's there for some customers who need it but we definitely are focused more on cloud hosting and on support. And we also have some SaaS products, Drupal Gardens. Anyone can go there and start up a Drupal 7 website and a new product we just announced called Enterprise Gardens for large enterprises who need to spin up dozens or hundreds of sites according to a templated Drupal distribution. And we will host that and support that. So there's kind of hybrid services and products. I would consider SaaS businesses to be somewhere in the middle of that. And it is also another sweet spot for Drupal. So maybe we can talk a little bit about SaaS. Yep, great. So this is what everybody wants to know, right? What are the ways that people have found to successfully monetize their products in this space? We're gonna, oh no, we're gonna start with Ryan on this one. I get to choose. But Acquia's the one that's doing it. The way that we've monetized is through training and through support. We actually have a support agreement with Acquia where we support Drupal commerce websites in partnership with their normal support team. And so that was an immediate way to monetize things without having to actually dive into SLAs and pagers. So I guess I'm not wearing one, but okay, somebody is. So that was the initial obvious way. And then it's not sustainable long-term, but there's also the fact that we've been building Drupal commerce thanks to client money. So we've monetized the build process in a sense. It's been self-funded and it's kept the rest of the team busy as well. So that's about where we are right now. Certainly not where we intend to stay. Should we also save the iPad? Good call. Thanks, guys. Depend on my teammates here. We should also define SAS. Like I don't know if we're throwing it around as buzzword and sort of taking it for granted, but it's everybody knows the software as a service. We wanna talk a little bit about SAS and that approach. Sure, let's try not to electrocute ourselves in the panel. Okay, so software as a service is all about you no longer have to do the hassle of installing your own Drupal.  And so I mentioned Drupal Gardens is our first attempt at that. It's free. Go ahead and check out Drupal if you don't know much about Drupal. And there are, it's very much a premium model there. Okay, so you upgrade to a paying version of Drupal Gardens and you get more features on your garden site. And the whole freemium SAS model, I think was innovative a few years ago. It's actually day reger now where you go to a website, you get something for free. You start paying 10 bucks a month.  It's a great model. It's a subscription model, which is all about recurring revenue, which is another problem with services is that it's often one-time revenue. So that's kind of how we're trying to monetize this thing with lots of subscription revenue. Okay, and like Ryan at phase two, that's that we do primarily a lot of our work through services work. So we use the distributions as the base to start building for clients. And I think actually Acquia uses the term accelerators for distributions. And that's, it's a good word for it. They help get us off the ground faster and help execute our projects faster. And then we are able to, we've kind of built a reputation in the verticals where we work with those products. So in some ways, we monetize almost in lead generation and marketing, but then we also build with the services and customizations on top of that. So certainly, you know, that's certainly services revenue. It's not dedicated, you know, build once and monetize forever product revenue. But it is how we've monetized on the products and how we fund continuing to build them. All right. So this is a question that comes up a lot in this space. You know, when you're managing a product like this, it's open source. It's sometimes funded through your client's work. And it has, it's probably not the exact same model and road mapping process that you would use if you were just building a product straight out of the gates and, you know, building a little company around a product. Let's start with Seth on this one. How have you found that you manage the product roadmaps for something like Drupalize Me or Viola differently because of its open sourcedness? Well, it basically takes some options off the table. So Viola is a platform and we give it away for free on GitHub. Anybody that has the knowledge to leverage a complex Drupal distribution can go and download Viola and host it themselves. So we have to figure out another way to sort of make money in a sense. And the way that we've done that obviously is to create a hosted solution for Viola. And then to sort of, we call it the special sauce, but add components to that that you can't get with the free distribution such as iOS apps, Android apps, Roku apps, you know, a professionally implemented theme. CSS code is not covered under the GPL. So there's certain things that you can sort of legally, you know, the truth is you could sell anything to anybody under the GPL, but they have the right to then take the source code and give it to anyone else. So if you're trying to protect something as somewhat proprietary, you have to figure out, you know, things that you can create that you can sort of sell as a product without distributing.  You know, I don't know. I think with, you can pretty much go with a classic SaaS model. The only thing that we wouldn't do, a lot of like Assembla, I think for instance, which is a project management system, will let you pay a lot to host the software on your own servers. You know, to basically have the enterprise version of Assembla and host it internally. And that's important for a lot of clients, like we have a client, Martha Stewart, and they can't have their code base on GitHub. They have to have it behind their firewall. And there's a lot of enterprise companies like that. So Assembla, which is basically software as a service, is able to offer yet another tier where they actually give you the software. So they've essentially distributed it at that point. But they're protected because they're not dealing with the GPL in the way that we are. And we don't do that with Videola. You know, we don't allow a company to basically host Videola on their own, at least not the enterprise version. The version that's a free distribution is certainly out there openly. But the one that has all of the sort of code that we've written to serve video and deliver video, we keep to the hosted option. Yeah. See if we can take out the picture. Yeah. Yeah. One of the things that we do is we just don't put, well, I don't say we don't. It's a lot harder to put dates on releases. It's a lot harder to put dates on features. Because in a sense, we're dependent on Drupal. And Drupal's dates are, it's released when it's ready. And so that can make it a lot harder to have a dependable product lifecycle. And additionally, if you're trying to include and involve other people from the community in the development of the product, if we want to do, that brings its own challenges. If I was just paying somebody to write the shipping module, for example, I would write them a spec and they'd go and produce a shipping module that does exactly what we needed it to do. But instead, it wasn't in our initial one dot to a roadmap, but we wanted it to come quickly. And so some guys from Copenhagen took that and sort of ran with it. And that made it great for flat rate shipping. That's all you needed was some sort of European flat rate shipping that kind of solved their problems.  And so then we had to sort of extend our shipping roadmap to include a rewrite. And then you have to do that along with the developer. And the last thing I want to do is demotivate somebody.  So there's the timing and the sort of personnel or community management that you have to do to make sure that you still have good buy-in and you're not being hindered at the same time by the open source nature of your foundation. So in my mind, being an owner of a distribution is a pretty interesting spot to be in. You get to have final decision on product roadmap, which is great. And at the same time, you have lots of people giving input, giving code, and you get to give back to the community parts of your roadmap and parts of what you build. In a sense, each one of us who runs distributions is like a Dries, right? He's the Drupal Core distribution owner. And we're all doing similar kinds of things with our own projects. And we're really excited when someone else brings the voting API module up to the new features we need. And if that's not happening quick enough, maybe we can sponsor someone to do that or we do it ourselves and give it back. So there's lots of pluses for being part of an open source project and running a distro that uses all the contrived parts of Drupal. Yeah, there is, I think there's another side of that too. That's really that we find challenging. I think this is challenging to distributions is that the other part about being a distribution owner, which is an interesting word for it or distribution maintainer of something that is the community code. I've sometimes said that our distributions are actually one of the most closed things that we do. At phase two, we maintain a lot of modules. We maintain a lot of code out on Drupal.org. The distributions are actually the things that is the part that gets the least amount of contribution and the most amount of people asking, when's the next release coming? We need a day. We need to know what features are in it. We need to know, we need our free software and we need it now. And that's a challenging place to be in too. And distributions lend themselves to that way because they do often have a bit of a brand around them and they can have the feel of something a bit more proprietary. And so bridging that and finding the way to get people to really contribute into that and finding a way to be a leader and for the vision and the roadmap for the product without being so all-encompassing that you're the only ones that are doing anything with it is an interesting balance, I think, in this space. We've talked about this a little bit, but how does GPL affect what you sell and how you build your products? Anyone? Does it? I'll try to be a little more verbose than that. Okay, so, as Seth said, the GPL takes a few options off the table, but there are still a whole universe of ways to make money with your distribution. So I think that there are plenty of good options there, including the SAS one that I talked about before, the services-based model that Karen mentioned. So, yes, it affects positively and negatively, like I was saying. You get contributions from the community that you didn't have to fund yourself. Yeah, I think it's actually helpful in that it takes off of the table this idea that maybe we can package up code and sell it. It helps narrow your focus right off the bat because that problem, how do you package up GPL code and distribute it and support it in communities? It's already been solved. It's been solved by triple.org and by GitHub and these other things. So we don't have to worry about chasing money and actually facilitating the distribution of a module. So what we sell won't end up being that. That's not to say that there can't be a valuable service around key rating and rating, whatever else you're doing to repackage these features and sell them, but as a baseline, it's made us as a community better at collaborating and distributing. So we don't have to really worry about those types of things to sell. We can focus on the services and the training videos and the network subscriptions and all that kind of stuff. That's great. Great, thanks. Okay, so I'm actually gonna leave this one with Ryan for a minute because it sounds like you've had quite a lot of success with this. Have you had some success in getting community contributions to your product and how have you done that successfully? Moshe has contributed to Drupal commerce. Yes, I think you have one, but yeah, two maybe. Well, a few more coming down the pipe, I think. What's great is that we've solved a need and a lot of people have that need and a lot of those people are technically competent, people that want to give back when they can. And so Drupal commerce has attracted a lot of people that are either from Drupal shops that just had a need for e-commerce and then were able to contribute back to the project or they're now Drupal shops that are just basing themselves around building Drupal commerce sites. Those guys have become active contributors. And how do you encourage them to continue to continually actively contribute back and not just build with your product and then not contribute what they're doing back? So, well, some of these guys, they're trying to make a name for themselves for the first part. They want to be known as a company that contributes to Drupal commerce and has got their module featured in commerce kickstart. So just contributing in itself is attractive to them. So you don't really have to try. And then a lot of what we're doing is utility. Like, you're not gonna, you're not really gonna win any friends or business by keeping a payment gateway module closed. The only reason that they should consider not making it open is if like it's insecure. And then maybe they should just like not be writing their own code. But like there's no incentive right now in Drupal commerce world for people to keep their stuff private. In fact, the bigger challenge is just like once these guys start getting traction in their market is actually make sure they have the time to give back. And so personally, I try to make myself extremely available to guys. And a lot of commerce guys will help co-maintain these projects. So our contributors can put the address book module that they developed online and then we can then help them polish or I came in and help with the shipping module to abstract it and make it more generally useful. So it's been maybe in some sense a hyperactive engagement of the developer community to make sure that they know when they're giving back it's both appreciated and they're gonna get help. They're not just gonna be stuck with this module that they have to maintain and hate it. And so like this far even to Drupal commerce we've had over a hundred contributors and many of those have a dozen or more patches they've given back because they know like they can totally understand the success of this is going to compound not just for their next project but for everybody else that they're also benefiting from. So as with Drupal it's a really easy value proposition I think. Yeah, great. Yeah I mean for Lullabot I feel like again this is Ryan mentioned that this is sort of a problem that Drupal has already solved. You know how do we get open source contributions. So what we try to do with our products is make sure that we hew to a site building approach as much as possible. So as little custom code as we can ends up in the actual product and then whatever else is custom often will contribute back as a module like Lullabot for instance has done a lot of the work on the Uyalla module. Which is Uyalla is a video backend content provider and so we've actually done a lot of work on that module contributed back to the community and then of course we use that in Viola as a tool to plug into a particular content provider. So by getting that stuff all back out into Drupal.org we can leverage those contributions. And then the only other answer I'd have is GitHub definitely makes contribution a lot simpler. So if we want people to let's say come in and help us with actually upgrading the Viola code base. Let's say we want some nice Samaritan to come along and upgrade it from Drupal 6 to Drupal 7. You know if we put it on GitHub that makes their lives a lot easier to sort of work with the distribution as a whole. Okay this is one of the, I sort of addressed this a little bit earlier and discussed it from our perspective and it goes into the roadmap question of a little bit of how do you handle the free software customers who are looking for upgrades or support or fixes on their timelines and on their needs. You know you certainly want to really encourage people to be building with your distributions. Obviously that's what you know or your products. That's why you have them and that's why you build them. But how do you face the challenges of the fact that you're sometimes funding them through your own projects.  How do you guys deal with that? Let's see. We'll start with that. That's a good plan. Well there's different parts to the answer. I guess the really short one is you deal with it with thick skin. Yes. There is always going to be a class of open source enthusiasts who wants more for free faster. And you know they're just like mosquitoes. You sort of have to cope with them. And there's not much more to say about it. Now there's a whole other class of people who isn't quite so entitled but they do feel entitled to at least hear from you every so often. So I think communication is a large part of the challenge here. If you are an owner of a distribution, Drupal Commons, open publish and you want people to use it and be happy with it, you have to tell them what you're working on and when the next version might be coming out and what the current challenges are for this product. So you build a community there and you talk to them. I think the members of the panel here have been quite good at this but definitely frequent blogging is a big part of satisfying the free software customer. That nails it. All right, good job, Moshe. How do products overall affect your company's overall business plan? I mean, we have services, products in the mix there. How does the concept of products affect what you guys are doing in terms of where you spend your time, who you hire, what you do and what your strategy is as a company? We'll make sense of that. Sure, I can start with that one.  It's, you know, we bootstrap them with our services team and so we're basically saying, you know, okay, we're not gonna work on this highly profitable services work. We're going to devote resources to this product and to its future promise. So it's really challenging to bootstrap products. It's funny because, you know, we have a culture of sort of bootstrapping and spinning off products. It's very much along the 37 signals philosophy of sort of selling your byproducts and creating things in-house and then making products out of them. And Jeff Robbins is sort of a brilliant visionary and is always coming up with ideas for products and why don't we do this and oh, that's shiny. You know, let's go over here. And meanwhile, it's like, we're trying to run the core services business and it can be very difficult. And there's moments where it feels sort of desirable to maybe take the route that I think both Commerce Guys and Acquia have taken, which is to get some funding, you know, to get funded as a startup and maybe spin off the product as its own entity. But so far we've been sort of, you know, just coping with the turbulence and the impacts and the disruptions. But it has a real effect on my developers morale and how much and how long they have to work. And it's tough. And so far we've done it based on the fact that there's a lot of belief in our products and in sort of making our own dog food at Lullabot to eat. And, you know, I don't know that there's a great answer if you're going to try to bootstrap. You know, there's really not a lot of ways to insulate. The only thing that we've tried to do is to sort of create structures within Lullabot to insulate those products as much as possible. And we've tried to narrow our focus because, you know, again, we have a visionary at the home so there's all kinds of ideas floating around. So we've created processes where we sort of have to prove the product's concept in business plan form, you know, before Lullabot is willing to take it on and throw resources at it. And, you know, that's helped a lot to sort of call the chaos a little bit. That's great. And I'd say that it helps them to have expertise because that's what you can charge a lot of money for and then you're freeing up developer time. So I know that, like, Lullabot, they're experts and so they actually have more money coming in that they can then set aside developers if they need to to develop the products like Drupalize Me or whatever else you have in the kitchen. And at Commerce Guys, we made the decision very early on that I wouldn't be a consultant. I wouldn't be doing billable client work. So very rarely am I actually pulled into actually generating revenue for the business. I'm just focused on Drupal Commerce and on Commerce Kickstart. And again, that affected the race strategy. The idea is that from my experience with UberCard, you can't build this stuff and then have the rest of your time taken up by clients because clients will always want more time and if they're the ones that are keeping your business going because you're the one servicing them, then you just won't be able to have time to work on your products. So we had to set me aside full-time and then we're looking to hire more people to set aside full-time to-do product development. One of the first things that we got going after we took the recent raise was set aside a product team in Paris that's working on, with me on the Commerce Kickstart sort of relaunch that we're looking at to actually make it more attractive to the outside community. So our business plan, why we've raised money and how we charge our clients is all revolving around what we hope to do with Drupal Commerce and how we hope this product to be central to everything else that we do and build around it, yeah. Well, I'm gonna make you stay on the, I'm gonna stay with Ryan for a minute just because you just discussed the kind of venture capital question and I think it's one that a lot of people ask us about in products. We have outside investment in a couple of these companies here. Commerce guys, I think it's probably pretty big news, it just did a raise. And we also do have some bootstrapping. Phase two has never taken investment for products so there's certainly different ways to do it. But one of the questions that I think we hear a lot is does outside investment create any pressure to be less open-sourced with your products or does it create any interesting dynamics in the open-source aspects of product development and product development in Drupal? I guess I should start by saying it certainly can but when you're seeking investors you're vetting them as much as they're vetting you. And so you're not going to take investment from a company that's going to put that negative pressure on you if they really understand and if you really understand how the open-source culture and the community really drives your business forward. And so with our recent raise it was a combination of three investors. One was our existing investor, ESIE, a French fund for entrepreneurs. Another was an e-commerce fund called Alvin Capital but the third was one that you may have heard of called OpenOcean which was founded by the guys that made a mint selling MySQL. So, you know, Monty was part of our vetting process. You know, these guys are in the room looking at how we're engaging our community and we were actually doing some, I don't know, I think it was our technical due diligence or something, how do we respond to bug reports and manage our issue queue and stuff. And he saw an issue that was like two years old and somebody had promoted it to critical without me knowing about it. And so he's like, why do you have a critical bug in your queue that you haven't dealt with yet? Oh my goodness. Wow. I'll go take care of it right now because they really, they really understand that the community drives our business and in a sense it's the community that made us attractive. If Drupal.org didn't have usage statistics that showed that 10,000 people were using Drupal Commerce, we wouldn't have received the valuation that we did. We wouldn't have received the interest from these investors that we did. But to them we were attracted because we not only had a good product in Drupal Commerce with Commerce Kickstart but we had a solid community of people that were enthusiastic about it and helping us to build it and that we're engaging with positively and really benefiting from and benefiting them in return. So it's really just about choosing who you're actually investing with. And I think the same is true for Acre that their investors get their strategy. They get that Dries retains sole ownership of the trademark and that Dries has a full engagement rights with the community to build this how he sees fit. So they're the same, it's true for us. It doesn't mean that they don't want to see return on their investment. So that's still going to drive the way that we move forward. But they actually challenge us to be more open about our product plans than we have been thus far. So I guess that's a good story. I don't know if there's a bad story up here honestly, but I'll let, do you know? I mean, yeah. Well ours is a good story also. Acre has had several rounds of funding and all of those rounds have been, the investors have understood and even promoted like Ryan was saying, us to do more with the community. There's a real understanding among our investors that Acre is just riding the Drupal wave and it is very, very, very important for Drupal to succeed in order for Acre to succeed. And that's the reason why Acre puts a lot of money into Drupal Core and Drupal Contrib. They pay Angie Byron full time to just manage community issues and move Drupal.org forward. And Rhys is time to fly around the world and talk about Drupal. And Alex Bronstein now is full time working on Drupal 8 and you may see more people working on Drupal 8 from Acre. And so all of that is done, not so much for our benefit, it's a little bit for our benefit, but more for everyone's benefit so that we can ride that raising tide. So yeah, I really don't see a conflict of interest there between the venture people and Drupal. Thanks, thanks. All right, so now we're gonna open it up for your questions. We have about 20 minutes, yep, about 20 minutes. So we'd love to hear your questions or if you'd like more clarification or explanation on something. We'd love to hear from you. There's a microphone right there in the middle. Don't go all at once. Slow down. Hold down. There you go. Yes, you sir in the back. So the question is one of product strategy. Have we considered monetizing through a hosted version of Drupal commerce? And what I would say is I was actually talking with the guy earlier on the way here about the fact that because we built our business around expertise, around consulting, we're really servicing the higher end of the market. So the people that we have on staff that we have to continue to afford to have on staff are servicing larger clients with their own set of needs. And it would be great to take Drupal commerce mass market, but it's a different trajectory from where we've been going. That's not to say it doesn't need to happen. I think that if we want to serve all those people that aren't doing a million dollars or more in business a year from their website, that there has to be some simple hosted solution because they just don't have the budget to pay us what makes sense for us as a business to stay alive. So considered it definitely. Considered all competing with Drupal gardens. I'd much rather partner with somebody like them. But I think it's a great idea, but it's also a very crowded space. I can name a half dozen off the top of my head of companies that are all doing that already and have already sent the bar at like $9.99, $15.99 a month for that kind of service. And so that would take a whole round of investment on its own to build something that could compete immediately, I think. I have a question for you guys. Thank you for, thank you for what I talk about. You mentioned about the more and more companies just going to the Drupal business. So it's more competition now. Like I have a question about the startup new company in the Drupal business. Do you guys have any good suggestion to the startup business like this one? Sure. That's a great question. So what would I advise somebody who's sort of coming into the Drupal ecosphere and wants to start a business as far as strategies? For one thing I would say don't sell Drupal necessarily. And what I mean by that is Drupal, the tool, the technology, it'd be sort of like your contractor selling you on the saw he was gonna use or the hammer he was gonna use. I would say find a business problem that you can solve, a vertical that you know very well. And then work to provide solutions for that particular business vertical and use Drupal as a tool to make that happen. But the idea of sort of putting up your shingle and saying hey we're a Drupal business, come to us if you need help with Drupal. I feel like to some degree that ship has already sailed. There are a lot of, it's a pretty competitive market and there are a lot of established brands in that space. So it's harder to get there. On the other hand, right now we're seeing an unbelievable sort of demand I think all of the companies and shops. And so everybody's hiring and acquiring and there is a lot of business for, there's a lot of small to medium sized websites that are not getting built because people can't find providers to do that type of work. So I do think there's some space there. It's probably a little bit more difficult if you wanna service large, large enterprise level clients to sort of come in that way. I guess one other suggestion for aspiring entrepreneurs out there is that one of the first things you need to do is establish yourself as an expert in the thing that you are trying to do with your business. And you know fortunately with the web now and Drupal Planet and Twitter you really just have to start writing and writing well and writing frequently and how many blog posts does it really take to become the world's foremost expert in Drupal for churches and Drupal for youth groups and all the sort of things. So definitely try to establish yourself or your company as an expert and the people who need that are starting to come to your website and you are starting to build a business right there. Actually executing the business is another step but becoming the expert is something that I think most of us in the room can do and it's a great first step. And to tag along on I guess on just because this is an audience of people interested in products generally I think when you find that expertise and you're finding those things you don't have to build this enormous huge product and distribution and SaaS offering in order to start offering products in your expertise. If you're providing services and you have a product that can be a theme or two or that's appropriate for that specific vertical or that specific group of people there can be a lot of, there's a lot of little products out there and one of the things that Lullabot does I think really beautifully with Drupalize Me is just they create a lot of content. They create a lot of awesome content and even just those little pieces of content that are available in a subscription form in their product doesn't have to be this enormous Drupal platform to rule them all. It can be these products can actually be very small things that are tools, pieces of content. There's a lot of different things that can be kind of productized in this space without having to build an entire system around it. Like I'll step back at the migration. Yes. Well, one second. Let's go to the mic. Good evening. Good afternoon. There has been a recent thing in the community about apps, Drupal apps and features and so on. I've seen it work in other communities like WordPress and Joomla. Why hasn't the whole idea of selling apps, not modules, but apps and features and so on caught on in Drupal community? Once it hopped, yeah. I would say I'll just answer part of the question. And I'll let Seth dig in. I'd say has it really worked for those other communities? Maybe it's worked for some people in those communities. But is it really useful for Joomla app or plugin developers, for example, to have to recreate views and rules inside of their e-commerce system just to have an e-commerce system that works on top of Joomla? In other words, it's this silo effect where if I have an app, why am I going to spend a lot of time being sure it works with everybody else's apps? So where's the interconnectedness coming from? Instead, you just be really self-focused making sure that your stuff works and that's really counter to the Drupal way of doing things. And so maybe it has worked by one metric. Maybe people are making money but would that same thing work inside the Drupal community? I don't think so because we're much more organic and much more interrelated. Just like Drupal commerce depends on rules and views and the Insta API and C tools. All this stuff that doesn't really make sense for me to try to package up something that I've done and sell it. And then again, as we discussed with the GPL, wouldn't somebody just go and redistribute it for free? Well yeah, I mean Ryan said it pretty well. If you look at sort of the data on CMS adoption out there, Drupal is sort of trending up and Joomla is really trending down pretty strongly. And I would attribute that in no small part to the sort of fractured nature of the Joomla module space. Concrete five is an interesting CMS in that it's sort of all the new sexiness out there and it's enjoying a quick rise. I think it's risen like 500% or something. But if you go to Concrete five to their website and you start to think about building a website, one of the things that's really dissatisfying is you go into their sort of marketplace for modules and there's like three different modules for having Google fonts on your site. And there's all these other modules for integrating maps. And I think in Drupal, when that happens, when there's three modules doing the same thing, the community gets together and says, hey guys, we're all trying to do the same thing. Let's just get together, choose which one we think is the most viable will all become maintainers on this module and then this will go forward as sort of the canonical module for this purpose. And that happens, I think, because modules are free and GPL. And I think when you move away from that, that doesn't happen anymore. You get the silo effect that Ryan's referring to. So I didn't add much to what Ryan had already said, but I think it's a, restating the point is worth it. Yep. I had a similar point I wanted to raise, Doug Van here. I wanted to draw upon the success that Tom McCracken has had at level10.com with their open enterprise distribution where apps play a central role when you go to install the Drupal 7 distribution of open enterprise, it asks you what apps you wanna install ahead of time. And then once you've installed it, it asks you if you wanna install more. And it's doing everything that features in the features store was hoping it might do when it grew up years ago, but failed miserably. And it's a phenomenal thing, but it incorporates the interoperability of modules and contacts and everything else going on so that we're not building our, we're not rebuilding views, rebuilding Ness or the other. A Drupal commerce store app would be awesome. It'd be among the larger of course, but there'd be simpler versions and more complex versions, you know, slideshows, et cetera. You can download the Drupal slideshow module with views, et cetera, but you gotta configure it, which is great and we will. But as an introductory, you know, having a slideshow app that pre-configures things and sets things up for you, but also has a custom GUI around it that you can configure at the point of installing the app. And then it has, you can go in and edit the view if you want to. You can get a Drupal after the custom GUI. I think it's awesome and I'm really hoping and I'm asking, do you intend on integrating apps into some of your distros, your products? Sorry, can I say one thing real quick? But as we start, I think one thing to distinguish here is that, you know, the concept, the general concept in the last question of add-ons or plugins or apps, whatever you want to call them and monetizing them and building a, you know, monetizing products through that is one concept and the apps module, perhaps not the best-named module, is another concept and it's really, what this gentleman was just talking about was the ability to put functionality into distributions in a way that makes it very, very simple to install and uninstall and configure and that's a useful tool for site builders. I want to be crystal clear that those are kind of two different questions and two different discussions just because somebody is using the apps module and yes, I'm a little defensive about this because we maintain the apps module and we like it quite a lot and we use it in our distributions but it does not mean that they are trying to create a large and evil app store. So I just want to make that distinction because I do think it's an important one to know that that module is, I do think it is a useful thing for products and I'm certainly happy to turn it over to these guys but it doesn't mean that if they're using it or not using it, it doesn't mean that they're creating or not creating a monetized app store. Okay, anyone else? No plans right now? Okay. I mean, I don't think we can consider it. Yeah, okay, true. So as service companies, how do you, like do you have practical strategies for defending your product development time? Yeah. Prioritizing it, balancing it because need income but you can just talk about those kinds of things. Sure, part of it is size. We had to get to a certain size before we could create a silo for product development and we did get there, you know, we got to, we're about 35-ish people and we have like a five-person videola team that sort of protected from our services business. The big work that happened up front was creating the revenue models around videola and sort of exploring how it was ultimately gonna be profitable for us and then proving that it was a worthwhile investment because it's very easy to quantify the cost of a certain group of people in a silo working on something per year. So that's the easy part. Then you've gotta say, well, how are we gonna be profitable enough so that this can be as profitable or more profitable than our services work? That's the tricky bit, right? That's the business plan. So at Lullabot, you know, we've started becoming more disciplined in entertaining product ideas and part of that is coming up with, you know, revenue models and spreadsheet form for how we're going to ultimately pay for the resources that we're committing to this effort. I think that people have to be siloed. I think that it's really difficult to ask your people to sort of do products work in their own time because the truth is, it's like, you know, at Lullabot, we had this concept of 20% time, you know, where we only scheduled people for 30 hours of billable work and the other 10 hours is their time to give back to the community and it's really tough to go ask them to instead of working on web form, the module we need you to work on videola, the product, you know, it's not going to make Nate very happy. The only other thing I could say is continuing to push the ceiling with your rates. So, you know, keep raising them until there's a lot of complaining. You know, I think there's a race to the bottom sometimes to sort of get business, you know, to grow top line revenue and overall sales by making sales easier to make, which you know, you can do by dropping your rates. But at the end of the day, that's going to eat more and more and more of your time. There's a very real cost to that. So keeping your rates high allows you to be, you know, do fewer projects, work less time and hence maybe have something in the margins to devote to your products. But I think you need to make the case for a product in a services business that it is going to outperform the services that you're doing.  Okay, question? Yeah, I mean, the revenue model and forecasting is a hugely important part of it. I also want to put a plug in for the other model which is let the clients pay for it and build it as you go. There's nothing wrong with that model. There's lots right with that model. And to the extent you can pick your clients and pick your jobs so that they push your product forward, I think that's really, you know, a really excellent way to go about it. Yeah, you also get a real, like real time market testing of your product that way. You know, when you're not siloed and you're testing it in real time all the time with the things that you're building with it that are building into, you know, if your actual clients are saying, yes, I will pay you money so that your product has this feature, you can have a pretty good idea that that's a feature that people will pay for. So it makes, there's a compel, but there are compelling cases both sides. Let's take the next question. Folks, I'm loving the discussion on productizing stuff. If I may, I'd just like to highlight that there's a birds of a feather session this afternoon on entrepreneurship within the Drupal community. It's called Doing Well by Doing Good. If you're interested in entrepreneurship and ideas for doing well by doing good, I'd invite you to come and join us. That's this afternoon at 345 Room 210. Again, thank you for letting me do the plug. Great. Just a couple more questions here. People need to go, we understand. What's the panel's assessment of the market size and potential for migration consulting products and services? I know, Mo, she built a business around that, but just how big of a market is that? Yeah, so I had a small business before I joined Aquia called Curve that was focused on this very problem of migrating data from other systems into Drupal. I never did a market size analysis, so I really can't comment on that part of the question. We were busy and within Aquia, the same team is still busy doing migration, so yes, I think that there's a pretty healthy market there. It's another one of those things where it's riding the Drupal wave, so to the extent that people are moving onto Drupal, they need migration experts. I'd say it's a pretty strong place if you're thinking about entering that part of Drupal. I think, yeah, I think it's a great place to be. Yeah, I would agree. It's the thing that always takes 10 times longer than anybody expects. We did with Curve's help, the Martha Stewart migration, and it's still going. The effort to take all of their content, all of their recipes, books, magazine articles, and put them into one canonical source, and then be able to serve that content downstream to their various front-facing web properties was by far in the end the largest part of the project. And yeah, migration demand is very high. That's something that we get a lot of requests to do, and there's very few people that specialize in it, so. We'll take one last question. Sure, it's a softball question for Seth. Can you just tell us about webforums.com, or webforum.com? Yes, totally, so I meant to mention webforum, but that's another. That's a great softball, thanks Greg. So webforum.com is a new product that Lullabot has launched, and it basically is a survey tool to build surveys. Webforum is a module that Nate Haug has contributed to Drupal, or contributed the majority of the commits to Drupal. It's used on most Drupal sites to build forms for those sites, and webforum.com is a pretty neat GUI that Nate's created around the module, and it's a hosted service, so you can go on there just like a survey monkey or something, and you can create your own surveys or web forms and host them there. And at the moment, we're not monetizing it. Right now it's just a free service out there in the world, but ultimately I think we'll probably pursue a freemium model, which Moshe already eloquently described. So yeah, thanks Greg. Webforum.com. Any other questions out there? You don't wanna know. I wanna thank our panelists today, Ryan and Seth and Moshe, and thanks for all your great questions. Thanks.


Can you hear me? Yeah, can you hear me?  Where are you out with it? One second, I'll tell you.  That was really risky, though. See, I'm not... Don't even do that without me. Don't worry. I am up. You just took the trading lane. But I'm only down 350. Okay. It looks great, though. It looks fabulous. Yeah, I'm here. Alright, so let's look at everything really quickly. So, the clothes here... I know where they are. I mean, at this point... Look at this, even the Netflix reversed. Everything is going to fall into the clothes. Can I... This bigger? The Skype thing bigger? It's real tiny. You're over 20,000. Is it over 23,000 again? Yeah, it's... Let's see where we are. Hold on. I'll do it this way, because I like the way this number shows up. It shows me the full option. Everything I have. I'm up. Remember, now I sold off a little... Time up is 23,253. What? I sold one thing. I sold the... One thing that was not doing much. It was the queues. The one from yesterday you sold. Yeah, the 531 from yesterday. Because it had dropped. And I was like, well, I'm going to capture this 400. Yeah, that's right. Yeah. Here we go. It's on. I'm only down 307. But literally, you could end up turning this around. This is going to fall. And if this breaks that area, it's going to collapse on top of its own weight. 1800 is really the number you're going to watch, which is the strike. So, basically, let's just estimate... Again, I said this morning, you could have got out of everything this morning and made like 24 grand. Or I said, if you hold everything into the close today, you could make close to 30. I think I'm going to be right. I think I'm going to be right. I'm talking about... I think you are too. Yeah. So, the thing with the Amazon is, this pushed back. And I'm saying, I told you to take more to cross-average your position to pull it down. It's too late, but it doesn't... So, you didn't have a good price, but the direction was going, so it was fine to do the trade. But the problem was, you should have done one. You should have done one. And because you took two... Now, I've got four. Well, now you have four. But I told you to take two more because your price was so bad and you took two. And I wanted to make sure that you made money in this or at the very least got outbreak even because one, you took it late, it's really important to take the amount of the cost of the position into a calculator and just times it by one, times two, times three, or whatever. And if that number is around $1,200 per risk, if that's what you want to do, then you know what it is. I mean, you've got time. If you get filled, if this moves a little bit, a little bit, it still gets you out of the world because they move so much. I'd rather see you not risk... You ended up risking $2,500 in these, which was double the risk that you did and everything else. If you risked $2,500 in the spying of the diamonds, you would be over $30,000 now, but you did not. So do you see how if you had lost in this, it would have messed up all of what we're trying to accomplish here. And two, you did it late, but it was fine to do it. It's still lower. But because I didn't call this out for long, I just think you got to get out of everything Friday today. Now that we're not lower, I still think we're lower. We could still be lower tomorrow, but it's cutting it too close. Yeah, it's just too risky Anyways, what are you... Where are you at with this right now? I am... Oh my God, it's coming back. Let's see. I'm only down $150. You're going to make money in this. This could be your biggest trade. You're going to look it up right now. Okay, I'm up. I'm positive. No, don't kill it. Do not kill it. No, I'm not. I'm not. I'm up $92. Just stay with it. I'm going to look up an estimate here. I'm just going to estimate here what this is going to do worth at the money today. Just hang on. You've got a lot of money on the line now. I just want to make sure I'm helping you through. Don't do this without me. I won't. I love how you tell me that. I'm a little kid. I know you have the money to do it, but I'm just saying next time I call the trade, take it when I call it. When you take it late and then you double your position. What happened? I was at the doctor when you called it and I was sitting there and my doctor was talking to me and I was like, I might take this trade. She's looking at me like, are you paying attention to me? I was like, not really. She's one of my friends and I was like, I was trying not to be rude. I'm in the green at least right now. I'm up somewhere between $75 and $110 bouncing around. It's going to fall. The market's going to go. I see that. He was telling Pelosi to nail it. I didn't even read it, but for some reason I don't know why. Look, here this goes. What's wrong with this market? That's what's bringing the market down. What? The talk again about impeachment. I know, but I didn't even know that when I called these trades yesterday or even this morning. That's so hilarious. It's all like this created a more perfect storm for what you already saw. It's like, it's great. Oh my God. My diamonds up 2800. That was a good one. Well, my 31 is up 25. My other one's up 300. I'm great at everything. My Netflix. I'm up. Damn, is that right? I'm only up 329 in Netflix. I took it late. And I'm up 2600 in my May 31 spy. Okay, here's what I want you to do. Take a notebook one that expires Friday so that when I tell you when you know and you can pull it and you get out of all of them because because you're just getting used to this thing. Write down one, two, three, four, five so that you don't miss any of them because you don't want to kill them all. So write down one is Amazon. That's number one you're getting out today. Number two, Apple. Did you get out of that yet? No, I haven't yet, but I will. Okay, that's number two. Three is the diamonds. Four is a spy.  What else do you have on that's expiring Friday? That's it. Are you sure? Yeah, I've got the spy. I've got... Yeah, that's it. The reason what I did was when I was at the doctor I took the six sevens because I was like if I get stuck today somehow and I can't get to a place where I have good internet I didn't want to be in the five thirty one trades and not be able to get out. I was sweating it. Which one are you talking about? Netflix I did say six seven. I did six seven. That's what I'm saying. I have to get out of a spy. The BA does do it. That's it. I called out Friday. I called BA. I didn't take it because I said I took all the six sevens. I didn't take any more five thirty ones. Except this Amazon when I got home. Because I didn't know where I was going to be for sure with the doctor thing. What are you up in now? I'm up two hundred and two dollars. I'm so glad I told you to do that. You still wouldn't be out if I hadn't told you to do it. Again, wait and see where this drops. Wait for it to break below. How much do you up in everything now? Twenty four twenty five.  I'd love to see you make between twenty five and thirty grand today. That would be your biggest day yet, wouldn't it? Oh, yeah. Totally. Yeah. Okay, so just quickly looking at this here. You give me one chart that you want to look at that you're confused about. That you're in right now. You see Amazon. You see that it's going here that it broke in the fifteen minute. You see the map here. I'll show this up. So this happened this morning. And here it is. So this closed here the night before eighteen thirty six forty three. Gapped down this morning. Eighteen twenty three twelve. Now this very well could have held. This still has not fallen off a cliff yet. And when you look at the market and you look at this, you could tell that Amazon's a strong stock. But again, this is a one day play. Two day down or whatever. But again, if you had gotten a better price in this, the lunchtime period, but it's once once everything starts to sell off, I think, into the close, we could have a major move into the close. But you always have that bounce. And that's where people did take profits into lunch, which was fine. You always have to figure out if you're going to hold something and make more or if you can withstand the pain of seeing everything push back up like you were down six hundred dollars in those Amazons. Right. But now you're turned around. I'm up three sixteen now. Yeah. Now this apple, the apple that I took yesterday, I'm only down fifty bucks. I'm almost like, am I supposed to go ahead and kill that?  Well, I don't know why you'd kill, you mean kill it today or kill it? You don't, I don't kill right now. What do you mean? Well, I've got the apple, the six seven, the one seventy-fives, and I've got the six seven, one seventy-seven of these that you called. The one that expires on Friday, I would say all of the ones you've got to get out of today just to be safe. All right, then I'm good. I don't even have to get out of the apple. I'm just accusing the spies in the Amazon. That's it. Now, here's what I'm seeing. This is going to flip around on top of itself today. That's what's going to pull the market down. This is going to go red and this hasn't gone red all day. Look at this. I'm just seeing this. You see where I have my pointer? So here's what I'm going to pull this up. You see this rallying? If this pulls around on top of its own self and breaks through today and goes from total green to total red because people bought this stock today, which is the dumbest thing in the world, this will fall and close and it will pull the home market down because the apples are a certain percentage of the cues. Oh, yeah. It's a big percent of the cues. And that will pull down all this sector here, tech and everything else. You didn't do Google or you didn't do Google? I didn't do it. Well, you know what? Be glad because I probably would have had another huge trade and I wasn't able to do it right when you called it. And I asked you about it when I did Amazon. You said I was too late. Remember? I don't remember even. I had 17 people emailing me and calling me. It was like crazy. But anyways, that's fine. I thought I called this before I called the other one though. But... You called them both this morning when I was at the doctor. And I was like, oh, wow. Okay. Amazon's flipping a little bit here. No, just let it go. Relax about it. No one's going to buy this stock today. That, you know, no one's going to buy anything today. And that's what we know. So based on that, you either would be flat everything that you shorted or you would hold the shorts. You wouldn't go long anything. And there's really no bad exit today. I just... You just did this late and then really... I didn't even have a problem with it doing late because I think it's lower. It's probably even lower tomorrow. It's just the fact that you ended up doubling up on your risk. And that would be a problem whether you took the trade on time or whether you took the trade late. It would be a problem either way. This is going to keep dropping. You could end up making $1,000 in this today. If it gets down to the low, you will. Just watch everything. And I'll watch it too. I'm here, but I think that the lunchtime exit was a solid exit. But the fact is that we could fall into the closed today. Literally into the last minute of the day, we could fall off in tank. And then I don't even know where we open tomorrow. But we're still lower, but I think today is a great exit. And then we'll do a session of one hour thing and we'll review gaps and we'll rate a gap. This week, probably tomorrow or Friday, we'll do it and then we'll go through the ones that you did and the ones that you're still in. Do you size yourself correctly and everything that you already did? Do you want to just double check that? Are you sure the ones that you're holding? Well, I did it with you. So let's see my cost for share. The two new ones. Like you doubled your risk in Amazon. You didn't do that on the other ones you did on your own. No. I bought the others where you and I talked about it. You know, around the $1,200 per trade range. So, no, I didn't change anything else. Okay. You're doing fantastic.  So great job. Thank you. Oh, yeah, I'm excited. And you know what, the Dow is down 331. We're going to go toward 500 down before the market closes. Yeah. We are going to sell up into the close. It's just like an hour and 10 minutes is a long way away from now where we're going to close. I have no idea at all. In fact, we're running a green. Let's look at Disney. Disney. So it looks fine. Yeah, my Disney sign. I don't want to get rid of my Disney. Microsoft. Microsoft is very strong. Disney is very strong. Let me look at Alta. Alta is green. No, Alta is red. I just want to look at the stuff that I have been saying is trying to hang on. Wow, now this is down. Look at the cost goes down today too. This is down big. Yeah, they said a lot of the retail stocks are down. Consumer staples. Oil is down right now. Let me just look at the Amazon. Let me just look at the Amazon. Let me just look at the Amazon. Let me just look at the Amazon. Oh my God. I think this is going to be quite... Where to go? I am up for $462. All right, so here's what I think this is. I think you should just play it on through between now and the close. I think once you hit up over $30,000, just get out of everything except for the stuff for June. Just get out of everything that you just made a list. There was four things. I would just say this is $30,000. You know, just between now you could just watch the chart. As things stay red, take it, take it, take it. And if anything starts to back up, just get out of them all. Once you start to hit around that $30,000, that's a fantastic day. Everything. Everything, even my 6-7s. No, I wouldn't get out of the 6-7s. You could get out of some of the 6-7s if they're up a lot. I don't know. I don't know where we're going to go. We have an hour left. It's a long time and we're near the lows. I'm not sure you didn't change your mind on me. It's always just verifying what you meant. I'm clucking out of everything. Gosh, this is so hard. Why? I don't think we're going to be up tomorrow. Because it's a lot of money. That's why. I'll call new trains. I don't know. Maybe I will. You never know about me. You know that. Text you later. You did fantastic. You really, really did. You're trading like a... I'm $25. $3.98. Oh, sorry. I'm $502. That's fantastic. See how you picked it around? Yeah. I wouldn't have thought to do that. Really, I've got to be honest. I know. Just be careful. Repair for tip train. Okay. Bye.


Hello, this is Hans van de Kwas, senior lecturer at IHE Delft Institute for Water Education. In this video, I'm going to explain GIS file formats. We're going to discuss the common file formats for Rust and Vector, and some internet formats, as well as spatial databases, and I'll also focus on good practice with GIS files and how to organize your data. Since the beginning of GIS, there have been developed many different GIS formats, and these formats are mainly created by government mapping agencies or GIS software developers. There are many different formats for Vector and for Rust data. Fortunately, there is a tool, which is called GDAL in the Geospatial Data Abstraction Library, also called GDAL, or GDAL. GDAL is a very important tool to convert between different GIS formats. It can convert file formats from Rust or Vector, with Vector we call it OGR, or Ogre, and it can also do all kinds of GIS analysis and projection transformations. Basically, GDAL is behind many GIS software tools that we can use. It's not only included in QGIS, but also in ArcGIS and many other tools. It is even available as libraries to use in programming languages such as Python. Let's have a look at common vector formats. A very well-known format, but not the best format, is the SRE Shapefile. The name Shapefile suggests that it is only one file. This is a bit confusing. It consists at least of three files with the extension SHP, SHX and Dbf. The SHP file contains the feature geometry, such as the point, line or polygon geometry. SHX is an index to allow seeking forwards and backwards quickly. Then there is the .dbf file, which contains the attribute table. This is the Debase4 format, and you can also open it in a spreadsheet program. However, there are also more extensions that you can see connected to the Shapefile, such as the .prj file, which contains the projection format. And if you share your file, it is of course very useful to also share the .prj file. There are even other extensions that are useful. So the rule is that if you want to share or to copy the Shapefile, you copy all the files related to the file, not only the .shp, because it then will not work in a GIS. Another format that is often seen is the comma-separated values file. It is also confusing because it does not always contain commas as a delimiter. It can also have semicolon or space. Therefore, it is advisable to always open the CSV files in a text editor to check the file. That it doesn't always use the comma as a separator as to do with language settings on your computer. In many languages, the comma is a decimal separator. So in order to import or export these files into GIS or spreadsheet programs, it is important for you to know what the separator is. In QGIS, we can import these files using Add Layer from the main menu and Add the Delimited Text Layer. Let's have a look at some common raster formats. Very common format is the TIFF, a tagged image file format. That is not only used in GIS, but generally for raster images. In GIS, there is some extension to that which is called the GeoTIFF. And the GeoTIFF allows to include the map projection and all kinds of coordinate information. Sometimes you don't find that information inside the TIFF file, but it comes with an external file, the so-called world file, which has the extension dot tfw. When you want to share a GeoTIFF, then it is important to include also this world file. Often you will also see the Archinfo ASCII grid. Also this file can be simply opened in a text editor. When you open it in a text editor, you can read that it has a header. The header gives the number of columns, in this case 4, the number of rows, 6, the x lower left corner, the y lower left corner, the cell size, and the no data value. And then each line contains the pixel values. So in this case, no data, no data, 5 and 2. And we can see on the picture how it's visualized. Many models output in this format or read this format. A better approach to GIS layers is to store them into spatial databases. You have to distinguish between personal databases, which are files on your hard disk, and databases that multiple users can use on the internet. It is of course good practice when you work in a team, in a department, or in an authority for the government to share the data within the department or outside across different institutes. Spatial databases are often not limited to GIS layers such as Raster and Vector data, but can also contain a lot of other data, such as the styling and all kinds of meta data. Spatial databases are different from normal databases only in the way how it treats spatial data. It uses the bounding boxes to have an optimal way of searching in space. Examples of spatial databases are post-GIS, which is well adopted as open source. And there's also Oracle spatial, SRE Geo database, Spatial Light, and the Geo package, the last three are often used as personal databases. With QGS 3, the Geo package is a default format. It is superior to the shapefile because we can easily use it to share our data without being concerned about that it has to contain different files. We can create new Geo packages and we can rewrite to existing Geo packages. And it has an extension.gpkg. We can, besides the layers, also store styling in a Geo package. There's a tool in the processing toolbox that we can use to wrap all the layers that we have into one Geo package. It's called the package layers tool. Obviously, on the web we don't share files, but we connect to databases, but we also need to render the data. And for that reason, there are so-called open geospatial consortium, OGC web services. For data, there's the WMS, which is basically rendering a picture from the data. And there's WFS, the web feature service, which contains the real vector data, the points, lines, and polygons that we can also edit. There's also the web coverage service that contains the real raster data that we can use for editing the data. Besides these services, there are many more and related to data. There's importance of sharing the metadata using the catalog services for the web, or to do online processing using the web processing service. Very often we also see the tiled web map. Other names for that are the raster tile map or the XYZ tiles. They are used to efficiently visualize online maps, because the layers are divided in many different tiles, while with WMS it is one single image. And we can use it in QGIS. In the browser, we can add the XYZ tiles. If we have a URL, it will add it, like in this example, the Google Satellite. And we can also create them ourselves from data using a plugin by Lutra Consulting, which is called the Tiles XYZ plugin. And then we can generate these tiles with different zoom levels to make it efficient, for example, to export it to mobile phone applications. QGIS also has a very useful plugin, the Quick Map Services plugin, which allows us to connect to different web services that support the XYZ tiles. The different files on databases can be converted from one to another. So we can convert one raster file format to another one using a translate function. We find it in the raster menu under conversion and then translate. Of course it uses GDAL to do that. We can do from vector to another vector format using the Save As option or export in the newer versions of QGIS. We can rasterize vector to raster. And the other way around, we can also polygonize raster to vector. Please note that it is important to do that only with discrete raster sources because if we have a continuous data set where many different gradients exist and different values, many pixels will be converted in a single pixel polygon which costs a lot of time for calculation and is probably not very useful. You can also add a GIS layer, a raster or vector layer to a geodatabase and vice versa. Once you're working with GIS, it is important to regularly save your project in a project file. This has the .qgz extension in QGIS. This file includes links to the layers that you are using in your project, the styling of the layers, the zoom level and the extent that you are in and the on-the-fly reprojection. And basically it saves the state of your project. Because it doesn't contain the files but only the links to the files, you should be careful. And if you move the files or delete the files or have been using temporary files, you will see this error when you open the project again. Handle bad layers. And there you have to indicate with the browse button where the file did go. When you are working with files, it is very important to organize your GIS data in a proper way. There is some good practice. Never save data on the desktop or in my documents. These are Windows determined locations and they are often in a path deep in your computer related to your user profile which might be even a roaming profile. It's better to save it on a dedicated partition. When you buy a computer it's advisable that you ask for a separate partition. So you have a C drive where your program files are stored and a D drive or a Z drive where your data is stored. This helps when your computer crashes only the C drive where your programs are stored will be reinstalled and your other partition will be kept as it is and you don't mix up these things. It's important not to use spaces or strange characters in folder and file names. That is both for RGS and QGI is important because many of the tools will simply crash when these characters are used. Also keep the file names intuitive. Of course you will test many different algorithms but it is better to include a little bit of the name of the algorithm in the trials because otherwise the next time you will work with these files you will not remember anymore what test 2 meant. Should learn where your browser saves downloaded files. By default this goes to some download folder somewhere on your computer but most probably you want to save your files somewhere in your project folder where you want to work. Therefore you should know that you can control this in all these browsers using the settings or the options to customize where to put it and I always use a setting that it has to ask me where I want to save the file. And the data is provided in zip files. These are compressed files and it's very important that you learn how to use the zip files. I can recommend to use the 7zip tool which is open source. When you use zip files it's good to check what is in the file because sometimes it's compressed at the folder level and then when you decompress the folder this whole folder will be put on the hard drive. So in that case you will not make first a sub folder and then extract it otherwise you have it twice. But sometimes it's zipped at the file level and then you need to create a folder and unzip the files in that folder. Some examples of file and folder names so the incorrect ones are on the left. We see a space in my documents. We see that it's on the C drive and we see that there's a minus sign used. The correct way is to save it on the D partition for example using an underscore. In the second example we see that module space to be and then a dot in the folder name. That's also not advisable and some of the tools will crash. So it's better to replace the strange signs or the spaces with underscores. So it's important to start thinking from the beginning how you want to organize your data because if you save your project files and you start moving your files you will have to handle those bad layers. So one thing you can do is organize it in this way where you put the different exercises you do in a different folder and we use underscores instead of spaces.


If you're struggling with depression right now, I want you to pray this prayer with me. Lord, my heart feels heavy. My shoulders ache because I've been carrying this burden for way too long. Lord, I let go of everything. I let go of my anxiety. I let go of my depression, and I give it to you, Lord.  Thank you, Lord. Amen.


Both of Solingen, both of Solingen from team three. The last on the block. Looks like I'm the only one who didn't learn its text by heart, so just confirming the cliche about students and deadlines, I guess. Well, we're all here gathered today to think about the future of Tilburg University. Every team, every presentation and every ID wants to contribute to a university that's ready for 2025 and beyond to an advancing university. And that's why I'm standing here today to contribute to this process on behalf of University Forum. And for those who do not know us yet, we will shortly explain our initiative. At the beginning of this academic year, University Forum was founded as a platform where all student parties of the university council and the faculty councils and the student assessors come together. And at our meetings, we share best practices, update each other on relevant issues, and where possible, also come up with collective ideas and opinions. And together, we form a unity, enabling us to join forces and become even more effective and thus valuable for the students we represent. And that's exactly what we want to do today. We want to show what's important for the students and how this can be translated into action for the next years. Understanding students and advancing university, so to speak. We believe that a university has two core duties, the duty of performing academic research and providing academic education. And these two should be the center of the new strategic plan as well. And as students, we want to focus on the education part. And that's because in the terms of references, the reference we were provided for the discussion on this new strategic plan, we missed one dimension. Because to determine what kind of university we want to be and how we want to distinguish ourselves, it's not only important to think about students in terms of numbers, but also in terms of who we want to educate. We see this, and we call this student 2025. And this has several perspectives, yeah, perspectives, that of the perspective student, how do we want to get students here? How do we want to keep them here and keep them satisfied? And how do we want to create alumni that are loyal and successful? Understanding students, the first step in this process is understanding the students. As a university, we must determine what our task is, what our role should be in the lives of the students. And what's most important in this role is that we must realize that the study period is a formative period in the lives of the students. The students should be the owner of his or her own development. And this is a combination of freedom and responsibility. They have the freedom and flexibility to decide whether and how to grow, but also have to live up to expectations set by university, society, and the work field. And in determining our role, we must keep this combination in mind. The university must facilitate and stimulate the students in the best way possible. It must hand them the tools so that they themselves can choose how they want to grow. And with this idea on the role of university as a starting point, we came up with two points we shortly want to address, that of student centricity and of data-driven education. Determining and defining the student of 2025 is a good step, but it will not be enough. We must make sure that in the future, we won't look back and conclude that we have not done enough to serve the student of 2025. This is why we should make a point of student centricity. In our eyes, this means that the university should create an environment that optimally facilitates and stimulates the combination of freedom and responsibility, and at the same time, make the students feel at home. This way, we reach optimal student well-being and optimal TIU-shaped education, and it's an investment which will pay off in terms of the image and popularity of our university. To make this possible, we think it would be a good idea to make this explicit in every policy document. How does a certain decision contribute to our vision of student 2025? This forces policymakers and participation organs to keep the vision in mind, to not let it fade away, but keep it the main focus point of our attention for student and educational policy. And besides this general idea, we also try to come up with a specific example of what we think would be good for the student of 2025. And we came up with the idea of data-driven education. Everywhere around us, data plays a role in our life and helps us to make decisions. Think of companies like Facebook and Google. But why not use our own expertise and data we can collect to create an environment in which students can be helped with this information? Using data offers endless possibilities. Think of improving education by analyzing the way in which students study. Think of analyzing the views of video lectures and trying to analyze the course evaluations in another way. Or for example, mapping alumni to give a better insight in career opportunities or suggestions for extracurricular trainings or activities or elective courses that fit the capabilities and ambitions of the students custom made. With the ePortfolio as an ideal framework, we believe that data-driven education could be a unique tool, a way to serve our students like no one else can. And that's exactly our point. This is why it's so important to take student centricity as an element on which we should build our university. Because by taking student 2025 as one of the orientation points on our horizon, we can create success for students and by that success for Tilburg University. Thank you.


Water traveling through a pipe at an average velocity of 10 meters per second is split vertically across a t-joint as shown in the figure below. Determine how much force it would take to hold the joint in place. My first question is, is this a conservation of mass, conservation of momentum, or conservation of energy problem? We know it's conservation of momentum, not only because it says it in the category for the top, but also because there's a force involved. The way that we relate forces to information about the fluid is through the conservation of momentum equation. So we know that we're going to be using a conservation of momentum equation somewhere here. The next question is, how many directions do I care about? Do I need an x-axis, a y-axis, and a z-axis conservation of momentum equation, or can I get away with just two or maybe even one? I recognize that I'm only looking for one direction of force, fx. It implies that I'm going to need at least one conservation momentum equation in one direction, and hopefully I can get away with just one. I'm going to be defining my x-axis as being in the left and right direction here, and I'm going to define it as increasing to the right. So our x-axis is defined toward the right. That's going to be important when we start taking into account the directionality of the forces or the velocity vector. So I'm going to pull up my x-direction for the conservation of momentum, and then we can begin to simplify some of the terms. The first simplification I will make is neglecting terms that aren't relevant to my situation. I've defined a control volume in this figure, and I recognize that I have at least one surface force acting on that control volume. That is fx. Also note, because fx is acting in the left direction, and we defined our x-axis as being to the right when I plug in fx, which really should be named something else, so it's not as confusing with fsx and fbx. Let's just give it a new name. How about epsilon? You guys know how I like epsilon as a temporary variable. Epsilon is now the force that we are looking for, and epsilon is acting to the left, which means that I plug it in here as a negative value, because it's in the opposite direction as our axis. Then do I have any body forces? Well, for our purposes, the only body force we consider is gravitational acceleration, and presumably that is going in the up and down direction, not the left and right direction, so I'm going to be neglecting body forces, or rather, assuming that they aren't relevant to the x-direction. Then I can consider if I need to account for any changes in the control volume with respect to time. If I have steady state analysis, remember that that entire term disappears. Do you think it's reasonable to treat this situation as steady state? I do, at which point that entire term disappears. Then I'm going to integrate across the control surface, and note that I will write an integral here for any orifice that crosses the boundary in the x-direction, and how many ingress or egress points do I have crossing the boundary in the x-direction? That's right, I only have one. There is no x component of velocity at either state two nor state three, which means this is only going to be the integral across control surface at state one. This would be density times u1 times velocity vector one, da1. So I have negative epsilon plus zero is equal to zero plus the integral across the control surface at state one, and that integral is of the density of the fluid times the x component of the velocity times the velocity vector, integrated with respect to a, and that a has directionality as well. So I will pull out my density, and I will pull out my x component of velocity, at which point I have negative epsilon is equal to density times u1 times the integral of velocity vector da1, and then I will collapse that integral by treating the flow at state one as being uniform. I was told an average velocity at state one, so I can collapse that down to magnitudes of velocity in area. That's described here, average velocity of 10 meters per second. So when I collapse that integral into its magnitudes because I'm using uniform flow, remember that I have to keep track of if it's a positive or negative value. And if the velocity vector and area vectors are in opposite directions, that means I have to use a negative value. If they are in the same direction, I use a positive value. The area vector at state one is to the left, the velocity vector at state one is to the right, which means they are in opposite directions, which means this is going to be negative average velocity at state one times a1. My average velocity at state one is going to be entirely in the x direction, therefore I can just plug in u1. And at this point, I have negative epsilon is equal to negative density one times u1 squared times a1. And in the past, I will point out that we had been able to get rid of the density by assuming that we had incompressible flow. We still can assume incompressible flow, in fact I should probably write that down as an assumption, even though it isn't particularly relevant here. But my density doesn't disappear this time because the left hand side of the equation is not zero. So when I divide both sides of the equation by row, it doesn't disappear. I have to keep track of it. Anyway, epsilon then would just be the density of the water times the velocity that we were given at state one times the cross-sectional area at state one. I'm going to assume standard temperature and pressure for the water, which means that I'm going to be using a value of 998 kilograms per cubic meter. And that comes from table a1 or a3, the 998 kilograms per cubic meter times 10 meters per second. And then I square everything. And then I multiply by pi over four times diameter or was I just given area? I was just given area. So I just plug in 0.01 square meters. Now, what unit would you like to express an answer in? I don't believe that it asks me how it does. It asks for newtons. So let's try to hit newtons. A newton is a kilogram meter per second squared, which means kilograms cancels kilograms, second squared cancels second squared, cubic meters and meters cancels square meters and square meters, leaving me with an answer in newtons. So if my calculator would help me out here, I can take 998 times 10 squared times 0.01. And I get 998. And that was fx. So what we take away from this analysis is that all of the x component of the momentum has to be stopped by the joint. All of that momentum has to be resisted in order for the joint to not move. Therefore, all of the force associated with that moving stream of water is going to be absorbed in the x direction. So my epsilon value has to counteract that. Also note, if you are currently in thermo two and you are working through the Brayton cycle analysis, we calculate the force of thrust in those circumstances by taking mass flow rate times velocity. That mass flow rate times velocity is just as applicable here. We could have taken the mass flow rate of stream one, which would have been the density times the cross sectional area times the average velocity, and then multiplied that by the velocity at which point we would have had density times velocity squared times area, which is the same relationship we just came up with using our conservation of momentum from the Reynolds transport theorem. Cool, huh?


So this is Dujan. He's our famous cameraman. He's always ending up in pictures, and you can see his face pretty much everywhere on the internet. And he's also gonna be a new FPV pilot.  Once he's done with this tutorial, he will move on to his own masterclass. So, this right here is the motion controller, right? We Nintendo, yeah? Yep. Your position of your wrist is gonna control the direction of the drone. So, if you wanna go and turn left, then you're gonna rotate your wrist to the left, and to go right, you rotate your wrist to the right.   This is gonna be your throttle. It's pretty simple, I guess.  The further you go in, the faster it's gonna go. If you push it outward, it's gonna bring you into reverse. To record, you have this button right here, which you can just tap once, and it'll start recording. I'm just wondering if I'm actually right-hand or left-hand. Yeah, he's recording. Let's see. Okay, 40 words. So, he's in normal mode. Yeah. So, we're gonna take off now. Okay. All right. Okay, so you say up. So, you could give it a little bit of throttle. Oh, this one, right? Yep. So, you gotta give it the throttle as the trigger. Yeah, but it's just rotating. It's because his hand is tilted. Yeah. So, you gotta keep your hand kinda like not tilted. Now, maybe you could turn it away from us. Away? That joystick, you don't have to worry about. Okay. You could ignore that joystick. Yeah, I just wanna go front. You could pull, you gotta... Pull? Yep. So, he's moving forward. Oh, okay. Okay, I got it now. If I... Oh, okay. I got it, I got it now. Like this. So, this is go left and right. Yes. All right. So, he's moving forward. So, if I put down, so he goes down. It goes down, and then if you point up, it goes up. It's simple. There you go. Is it break? Okay. Yeah, quite easy. I mean... Oh, you could just gotta a little bit adjust your hand. Yeah. And we got a pro FEV pilot here now. Yeah, it's easy. I mean, it's easy. It's like a simulation, you know? Yep.  Okay, all right. There you go. Now he's getting a little more comfortable. Oh, yeah. It's just you need to adjust actually the handle, you know, a little bit. You try this way? Over there is raining. Oh, okay. Should we go back? Yep. Okay. Oh, nice. Nice. Nice. Almost. Yeah, it's funny. Damn, this is like a real... I don't know who to compare to. Like a video game. Yeah.  Guys, you want to have fun? Oh, no. How to run us? Soft targets. Yeah, he's not. Actually, I feel more comfortable with this joystick. It's kind of a little bit the sensitivity of the joystick, you know? Yeah, so I did adjust it to make it less sensitive. Oh, okay, okay. Yeah, it's the preference. But yeah, the one thing I don't know. Okay, the red thing, this says two meters. Two meters, I'm from the... That's your height from above the floor. Okay, so... So now it's telling you like you're really low. Yeah. Damn. It's amazing actually. I'm impressed about this, really. I would prefer, to be honest, I would prefer... I'm shooting wedding, right? If I have a drone, I fly with regular drone, not kind of this one. So I would definitely prefer this controller. I would say it's easier. That's crazy. That's all on you now. You're the star. It's amazing. I'm really impressed about this. What could you see yourself using this for? For wedding, definitely. For Google mapping the streets or stuff like that. Yeah, yeah. Anybody could do it. It's just the first two minutes, you gotta just adjust. But everybody's different too, you know? But it's really simple. I would say adjusting is harder for me. This is way easier. Yeah, yeah. I would say it's upgrade for me. That's why I come with this, because they want it to be easier.  So that definitely shortens that learning curve quite a bit. Does the sport mode head also this one? No, right now you were flying in normal mode. Oh, okay, but it did have. It does have the sport mode. Yeah, so for a beginner, it's probably best that you start off in normal mode. Yeah. And then when you're ready to move up to sport mode, then you can. But just remember, once you're in sport mode, you have no control of your angle. So you could do flips, and you could do all sorts of stuff. You can do whatever, yeah. The movement will be different. Exactly, yeah. So probably I was stressed out, and I probably will crash, definitely. But this was simple. The normal mode, anybody can do that, I would say. Excellent.


An international team of astronomers recently used the Hubble Space Telescope to study white dwarf stars within the globular cluster NGC 6752. In the outer fringes of the observed area, they accidentally discovered a compact collection of stars that were much further away than any of the stars in the cluster. In fact, they were so far away that they could not be in the Milky Way at all. Astronomers determined that they had found a new galaxy, a dwarf spheroidal galaxy 30 million light years away. They named it Bedin 1.