I really appreciate everybody joining us today. I'm really excited about this conversation. Obviously, as you know today, we're talking about an important new book by a really great food journalist who's been way ahead on one of the most important issues in the meat industry, in agribusiness and in the food system today. And of course, that's Chase Purdy. Chase has a long history of reporting on the business, politics and technology of food. He's worked at Quartz and Politico, as well as newsrooms across the American South, including The Roanoke Times, The Ledger, and The News, Virginia. He was a 2019 National Fellow at New America, which is where our paths crossed. I was a Fellow at New America in 2014. I also write about big corporations and food. My first book was about the meat industry called The Meat Racket. And then I published a book about coke industries called Coke Land. So I'm really grateful to be part of this discussion today because Chase's book hasn't just been fascinating for me, but it's had a really big impact on how I think about the food system. So before we get into it, Chase, I wanted to say hello and give you a chance to say hi to everybody. How are you doing in this quarantine era? I'm doing well. I'm coming at you from my humid Williamsburg apartment up in Brooklyn, but happy to be chatting today. Yeah, it's good to see you. I wish we were at New America's offices. Maybe when all this passes, we'll be able to do that. For sure. Because yeah, this will be an important issue. So let's just jump right in. Let's talk about this book, The Billion Dollar Burger, Inside Big Tech's Race for the Future of Food. And that's sort of a big subtitle that I think actually captures the enormity of what you're writing about in this book. And as a little bit of background, as I said, I've written about the traditional meat industry.  You're writing about something totally different. And we could call it cultured meat, cell-based meat. I'll let you define it. But before you do, the one thing I wanna say is when I first heard about this technology, I think about four years ago, maybe three and a half years ago, it really seemed almost like the realm of speculative science fiction to me. I thought, okay, this is really interesting, but this is something that might impact us five years, 10 years down the road. But your book really changed my thinking about this and showed how important this is for us to be talking about today. So why don't we start at the beginning? What are we talking about here in this discussion when we're talking about meat? Right, so I mean, to your point about learning through this that we're maybe closer to cell-cultured meat than maybe what you once thought. It's the same case for me. You know, the last time really that I feel like the world was talking about cell-cultured meat was really back in 2013 when a Dutch professor sort of unveiled the first sort of cell-cultured beef patty to the world on a stage in London. And basically every major outlet was writing about it at that point. And then sort of the sort of public noise about it kind of died down for a while. And in that downtime meat alternatives particularly in the plant-based sector, like impossible foods and beyond meat kind of rose up and captured a lot of public imagination. And I think now we're reaching sort of this point where cell-cultured meat, which is an entirely different kind of meat alternatives in the plant-based variety is starting to gain a lot of steam. And it is fundamentally different than like the impossible foods or beyond meat burgers and products that you're gonna find out there. And just as a basic overview, it's a complex science, but the basic overview is that, you essentially like extract like a stem cell from, you name it, like a chicken, a pig, a cow, lamb. And you basically need three ingredients to make cell-cultured meat. You need that animal cell. You need something for that cell to feed on. And our bodies and an animal body's blood delivers lots of nutrients to cells that can then replicate and build themselves up. And the tissue, it's not much different when it comes to feeding these cells. The cells feed on this liquid medium that has, it's filled with amino acids and proteins and all the things that a cell needs to replicate itself over and over again. And then the third ingredient is basically like where that all happens. You think about a cow's body has like a certain temperature. It has the right oxygen levels throughout it to promote sort of tissue growth. All that happens in what's called a bioreactor in the cell-cultured meat world, which is essentially, you know, it sounds super fancy and it is in some level, but it's essentially just a big beer vat or a tank where all this happens. It's like sort of temperature controlled and super sterile. And inside this tank is where the cell that you have collected replicates over and over and over again. And it grows into fat tissue and into muscle tissue. And on a sort of really simple level, when you put those two things together, you have on a molecular level and a nutritional level what is real meat. And so that's kind of what it is. And I would say that since 2013, this field in the seven years since 2013, this field has grown to like more than 30 startups around the world, has gotten investment dollars, not only from, you know, single investors in certain funds, but also from people like as high-profile as Lika Xing in Hong Kong, Bill Gates, Richard Branson. And the case that I make in this book is that even if you are really unfamiliar or really squeamish or really excited about self-cultured meat, that you're not gonna be able to like ignore it. There's enough willpower and science and money and interest pushing this technology, this food to the forefront and we're kind of at that point now. And that's what really blew me away is just how advanced and far down the road this is. I really had no idea. And to that point, to talk about this, first of all, you've eaten some. I mean, you've eaten some of this meat. I seriously tell us about this. I mean, is this a totally fake, weird test tube kind of rubbery meat? Is it a familiar, if I bought this in the supermarket, would I identify it as meat? So my experience eating this started and I remember, so the book centers, the book involves a lot of the companies in this space, but it really centers around, you know, one kind of is the vehicle for the story and that company is Just, which is based out in San Francisco. And I remember the first time I went to Just and I tried self-cultured meat and the first dish that they put in front of me was foie gras, which is not something that like I grew up with. It's not something I eat ever. It just kind of looked like this meat paste. I mean, it is just pâté. And I remember the taste was very rich and kind of meat-like, but I didn't really have a lot to go on. And then the second thing that they brought out, and I wasn't expecting them to bring out a second dish, was a duck chorizo taco. And that really sparked my interest in this and got me much more excited about trying other products, which would include meatball, chicken tenders, chicken salad, fried chicken. And as the reporting sort of went on into like year, you know, one year, two years in and I started eating the products as, you know, as I was doing my reporting, it got to be really cool. I mean, like the taste is there. Often what I would do before I would taste these things though is I'm really interested in sort of like kind of tearing into it and seeing what it looks like on the inside. And I remember I was at another company that's based in Silicon Valley and was given sort of this chicken tender that had been very simply seasoned, just a little bit of salt and pepper and the way I sort of describe this is if you, any of the sort of the listeners right now or even you, if you slice into like a chicken breast that's been cooked, you'll notice it's kind of like stringy. It's actually really hard to get cells to grow in that linear fashion. And I remember pulling apart this chicken tender and seeing it be just that and thinking like, wow, like we've reached this point to where not only does this taste and have the mouth feel of meat, but it actually is growing just like meat as well. It was super fascinating.  That's the other funny thing about meat is everyone's like, did it taste good? And it's like, well, meat on its own is kind of just a basic flavor. It's really how you season it and serve it that makes it interesting. But on a fundamental level, it all tasted how it should have tasted. Understood, totally. Yeah, tasted like chicken, right?   It feels like meat, it has that experience. One of the things you really point out though, for this industry to become mainstream to where I can go to the grocery store and make a choice between traditional meat and silk cultured meat is cost. And you were talking about when some of these first products were revealed in 2013, let's talk about the cost per pound and where it was a matter of years ago, where it is now and where it needs to be for this thing to become mainstream. Right, so the cost now really depends on kind of what company, what species is being grown, but to hit rewind and go back, because I think that's really where you can see just how dramatic some of these changes have been. When that Dutch professor that I talked about introduced the first silk cultured beef patty on a stage in London back in 2013, that ended up being about $330,000 per patty or about $1.2 million per pound, which is slightly out of most people's price ranges. But now, depending on what you're making, this can really range between, I think whenever I was last at Just, they were talking about being about $50 per nugget or $100 for like a $200 per pound of chicken meat. Some companies that I think it was Memphis Meats had mentioned they've gotten theirs down to about a $1,200-ish. And that's a significant drop. That's very, very expensive still. It's a significant drop and those were all prices that were laid out before any of these companies had made sort of or built any kind of facility that was an official like production facility, which once those are being built and there are about five companies now that are building them or have one already, once those are built, that's when you're gonna start seeing like serious declines in price because they'll have the equipment and the scalability to kind of like take it to its next step. And another way that prices dropped too is that second ingredient that I mentioned earlier, which is the sales feed on this nutrient-dense liquid medium. For a long time, at the earlier stages of this industry, the companies were using what's called fetal bovine serum, which is what it sounds like. It was basically cow fetus blood, which is super rich in all these nutrients. It's often, I mean, this is a product that's used in pharmaceuticals a lot. The people who are in this industry don't want to use that. And so they basically went off and they've created their own plant-based and synthetic nutrient-dense mediums. And we saw the price drop basically from $1,200 per liter for fetal bovine serum to what at least one company has said they have it down to about $1 to $5 per liter now, which is, again, like a significant drop in cost to what was one of the biggest hurdles that the industry happened. So, I mean, you've covered a lot of businesses, you've covered these businesses. I hate to ask you to speculate, but when you look out on the horizon, when do you see this technology getting to the point that it could be in grocery stores and kind of breaking that cost barrier? Do you think it's possible? Is it 10 years away? I mean, I don't have a crystal ball or like I don't know how to read these of this. So it's difficult to say grocery stores. That's a good question. I mean, if you ask me, when would this be out in a restaurant somewhere in the world? I could easily envision that being in the next like six to eight months even. It really kind of depends on, it's less about when is the technology or the science that going to be there? It's more about when a regulatory body, sort of one of the FDAs or USDAs somewhere in the world are going to like, say give this sort of a regulatory stamp of approval to build a framework by which these companies can operate and be overseen by inspection, inspector, government inspectors for food safety and things like that. That's really what's holding it back. But I bet a restaurant wouldn't surprise me if it was out somewhere, probably Singapore in the next six to eight months. Grocery stores probably still several years out. Okay. And this whole monstrosity that we call like a food regulatory system, let's kind of maybe revisit that in a second because it's such an important topic as a barrier for something like this hitting the market. But okay, I kind of want to shift gears here to talk about what's behind this, okay? We've talked about the technology itself and the cost. But I want to come at this in two ways. First of all, what was so fascinating about your book were the people behind this, the people behind this industry because a lot of them aren't just doing it to make a buck. I mean, there's this real idea here that changing the nature of meat is a fundamentally important thing to do for our health, for the environment, for all these issues that surround modern industrial meat production, okay? So I'd like to talk about that, but in the background, and we'll get to this, we can't ignore the fact your book is coming out in the middle of an absolute crisis in the meat industry that we're seeing right now. The traditional bread and butter, slaughtered animals meat industry is undergoing a crisis, which really I think adds a lot of fuel to this discussion about what's gonna happen on the horizon and what's gonna happen next. But so to that point, could you please talk a little bit about the people driving this technology and why they think it's so important that we shift from killing animals to raising meat in a vat? Right. So the whole kind of reason I stumbled on this topic that would become this book was that I kind of over a period of time reporting in this space figured out that the people who were behind self-propelled meat companies were often like former vegan advocates, not all of them are activists, not all of them but a lot of them were. And I kind of started figuring out how they were connected to other people in the animal welfare movement and realized that for some of these people, they were really kind of, a lot of them were friends in Washington DC in the early 2000s and all feeling kind of frustrated about how this kind of like, their vegan activism that they've been brought up with that they've worked within this like activist system wasn't really achieving as much as they wanted it to. And so I think the way that I phrased it and a story that I wrote for Quartz was the vegan movement finally broke out of its heart and started using its brain. And what we've basically seen is when it comes to these self-propelled meat companies is that the entrepreneurs behind them essentially decided to use sort of this capitalist system that perpetuates all this animal death, insert themselves into it and sort of attack the system from the inside. And that's kind of what we see. We see like this very, they're using this very compelling science and technology to sort of subvert this bigger system by creating real meat without the elements of the meat system that they detest. And that's kind of like where I saw like this industry really kind of virgin up. And like that activism has definitely stuck with a lot of them. Now, there are also people in this space that are not vegans like Mark Post, that Dutch scientist in the very beginning. But the guy at the center of the book, Josh Tetrick, the CEO of Just is definitely sort of one of those people who still remains like really mission driven. If you like kind of chart back to how his sort of career began and sort of the trials and tribulations that he faced, he still very much kind of is that like being an activist type. And I think in the book at one point, he even, he had gotten over a sort of a funding round challenge and was basically like, finally like this company is run by like an activist and not by sort of like these investors. And so he even sees the company kind of in that respect. So that kind of is at least for some of these people that kind of strikes at what their motivations are. And then to like your point about the COVID thing, I mean, not only is this a way for them to sort of tackle the animal welfare issue of the meat system, but more and more whenever you hear cell culture meat being talked about in a public forum, it's often as like this very promising new tool to like go after the 14, 5% of the globe's greenhouse gas emissions that can be, which is just enormous, which can be tied back to the animal agriculture system and that cell culture meat would use way less land, way less water, way less energy and would be a way to kind of combat all of that sort of the greenhouse gas emissions issue. But what's interesting is that like now as we've sort of gone through this global pandemic, it almost offers like a real sense of urgency and extra sense of urgency behind an issue that's less abstract than even climate change, which is sort of like the impacts of COVID-19 on like our meat system. Whether you are a consumer who's worried about meat shortages and meat prices in the grocery store or whether you're somebody who is disturbed by the number of animals that are being cold because meat packing plants had to close down or because you're someone who's concerned about labor rights issues as we've seen like workers in meat packing plants being asked to return to work, even if they're afraid of like contracting the virus. Suddenly like this opens a whole big door for like culture meat companies to basically again push their sort of narrative of why they're important because I mean the meat system has been absolutely hobbled by this virus because of the way that it's set up, this sort of hyper consolidated, more centralized system that just a handful of meat packing plants are responsible for a vast majority of the meat that's produced in this country. I ran the numbers back in April, which these are old now, but there was at a point in April and several plants had been shut down and I looked over at the USDA numbers and just a handful of plants being shut down decreased pork and beef production by around 36 to 37% each, which is just like a colossal amount of meat that just wasn't being made anymore because of this sort of surprise global event that like, you know, they weren't prepared for. Yes, and I think this has brought home the real risks and the fragilities in our meat system that people have been kind of talking about worried about for a long time, but the COVID crisis has made it real in a way that it never has been in modern times. So what I mean to say is you go to the grocery store and stuff isn't there or it's really, really expensive. And, you know, as you're talking, I do want to say that, you know, the meat industry has been working for decades to just push production into as few giant slaughterhouses as possible, which creates that scenario you just talked about where when one slaughterhouse goes down because workers are sick, it knocks out a huge part of production. But each of those slaughterhouses also has a really enormous footprint of these industrialized factory farms that are tied to them. And I mean, we're talking acres and acres of land with these enormous sophisticated warehouses on them that hold animals, maybe 75,000 birds at a time, 20,000 hogs at a time.  And so I don't want us to forget that just the enormous footprint that goes along with meat that's really kind of, you know, most people don't see it because it's way out there in rural America. And it seems to me the system you're describing, I mean, what would a cell culture meat system look like? Would we have a meat factory in a small town with powdered soybean coming in one side or what would it look like? You know, I think that, I mean, the annoying answer to that is that so much of this is to be determined, but I think that this event right now has even sort of forced cell culture meat companies to think about what does the distribution model actually look like? Because if, you know, what if you do build like a large, and you can imagine kind of like, yeah, I mean, I really, a large brewery which I think is kind of like an oversimplification of what this would be, because this would be kind of a massive brewery, but, you know, I think that some of these companies could envision like a large facility that is able to supply a region of multiple states with a lot of meat. And I think that that's been called into question now because we see what happens when something unexpected sort of can befall onto like the meat system. And I think that some of these companies are maybe not questioning, well, maybe this needs to be a more local agricultural economy, more slightly more regional or city-based. You know, I talked to one of the CEOs in this space, Mike Selden at Thinlist Foods, and he sort of had made the observation in the past that when it comes to fish, cell culture fish is not much different than fresh cut fish, which is that the sooner you eat it, the better it's going to taste, the more fish-like it's going to taste. And so that kind of almost dictates that if you want to service the city of Chicago with cell-cultured fish, it's gonna make sense that you have like a facility that services Chicago, that you have one that services, or two that services New York. And that's like, you know, obviously less susceptible to some of these like larger problems. I do think that, you know, one of the things, it's easy to criticize the meat system and to look at this and be like, this is a massive problem. And I'd almost be interested in what you, some of your thoughts are on, you know, how do you kind of balance too? Like, if one, you know, the consolidation has obviously created like a big problem in a circumstance like now, but also I think a lot of people in the meat system would say, but look how efficiently we are, look how cheap meat is, look how widely available we can make this product. And I think that that's sort of, you know, something that has to be thought about as well as we think about, you know, will cell-cultured meat be able to step in and sort of provide the same thing. Chase, I don't know if I'm the guy to ask about this anymore. I feel so jaded about the whole thing. And I mean, having reported on it for a long time, you know, we, the industry is so consolidated and top heavy right now. And this was not like a group of agronomists sat down and said, what is the best way we can raise meat and deliver it to people as efficiently as possible?  And that's exactly what happened. So, you know, the system in my mind was designed through total neglect on the public policy front driven by the business plan of a few companies. And, you know, I think my view has been further darkened by a lot of the law enforcement stuff that's been coming out lately. The Department of Justice just indicted the head of the second biggest poultry company in the country for rigging prices in a complete audacious, like, fearless manner. I mean, sending text messages like, hey, good morning, should we rig the market today, basically? And so when you've got behavior like that, it's really hard for me to sympathize with their view. And the view you just laid out, you know, with more fresh delivery, regionally based, new competitors in the market, you know, new companies, new technology, more choices for consumers, I mean, that feels really different to me. And it feels like something that could shake up this existing status quo. Right. So all this being said, what I can see that you can't see is like, I don't know, dozens of questions are piling up here. Everybody really wants to ask you a lot of questions. So if it's okay, I might start getting to those. Yeah.  I don't want to monopolize your time. Okay, question number one. You mentioned in interviews that Tyson Foods is an investor in this new industry. This perfectly segues what we're just talking about. Do you see a possible union between these two industries that would seem to be naturally at odds? Yes, absolutely I do. I think that, you know, one of the things that I get into with this book is kind of like some of the food fights in American history that have taken place. You know, whether you're talking about back in the 1800s when the idea of margarine was imported over from France and freaked out the butter industry, which led to the creation of the dairy lobby and the intense fight between those two interests. Whether you're talking about how the dairy industry has been completely spooked by the ascendance of plant-based milks or the meat industry's reaction to plant-based meats, um, self-cultured meat is slightly different because, yes, there is an element of, like, the meat world that hates this idea. The ranchers, in particular, really detest it. But what makes it strange in the wrinkle in this is that both Cargill and Tyson Foods have sprinkled investment dollars onto a few of these companies, which sort of just shows that they are interested. And what really struck me was when former Tyson CEO Tom Hayes appeared on Fox Business a year or so ago, and he sort of described Tyson Foods as not as a meat company. He basically called it a protein company and indicated that consumers out there are very interested in plant protein, conventional animal protein, and maybe one day in the self-cultured meat protein that there is, if that's what you are interested in serving people what they want, then Tyson could be a part of that game, which kind of indicates to me that the most powerful players, the people who are making big decisions about how meat is made in this country and how protein is produced in this country, if the former CEO of Tyson is saying that, then I think there's a huge chance that they could be very much part of this business. But my question, let me ask you as the self-described cynic here. I mean, what if these big companies just use their money to buy out a competitor, the way Facebook bought out all these upstart communications platforms? I mean, what if Tyson just absorbs this and we're still left with the top heavy consolidated meat industry? I mean, do you see that as a risk or what do you think about that? You know, I think that to be determined is, like certainly what we just talked about with, I mean, just think about it, even if Tyson doesn't use that tool, there aren't a hell of a lot of players in this space. So you can imagine that you kind of still have a version of what exists today, which is a few players control the majority of the meat, but maybe the distribution model is different. So we don't totally solve this kind of like monopolized idea. And in fact, like one of the CEOs, again, Mike Selden of Thinlist Foods said, you know, this might be the case. It may be this like sort of landscape where there are a few players that are making most of this and maybe that's bad, maybe it's not to be determined, but like, yeah, Tyson could absorb a few of these. I mean, that's all like, I mean, that's one of the reasons why I think we have to be really thoughtful about culture of meat. It doesn't get some pass. You don't, they don't have to, they don't get to avoid questions about transparency or about business model. They should be grilled, so to speak, but it's a great question. How have I never used that meat pun in all these years that we need to grill these companies? That actually leads right into this next question, which I think is a great one that a lot of people care about, which is that traditional, oh yeah, let me, before we go, I've got a bully pulpit advertised, anti-trust law, competition policy. It's a great thing. Google, we should look into that more. And so as this new industry emerges, I think, as you said, we do need to keep an eye on competition law. It matters. Okay, enough. Question, traditional meat production and processing is troubled by serious food safety issues that really became apparent through the Jack in the Box incident, that food poisoning. And boy, there are a ton of examples of that. So how will self-cultured meat compare in that regard? Great question. And the former food safety reporter in me loves it. And it's definitely something that I asked the scientists in this space.  These slaughtering facilities and meat packing plants aren't like super clean places. In fact, we basically accept the fact that the chicken we buy is going to have a certain amount of salmonella on it.  And make it safe for us to eat. Well, the self-cultured meat process happens inside sort of these very sterile bioreactors that have to be cleaned. And there is obviously no manure involved because there's not an animal involved. And so we aren't going to have these pathogens sort of like lurking on the surfaces of the meat that you buy. And so it kind of does eliminate that. One of the weirder things, and it was that just when I was talking to one of their scientists, and I think we were at this moment we were both standing over kind of a bioreactor and I was looking inside at what had sort of grown in there. And I was basically like, so could you just eat this raw if you wanted to because you don't have to worry about these pathogens, which is absolutely disgusting. I wouldn't do it just because it's just, I've been conditioned to not ever want to do that. But his answer was basically like, I mean, theoretically, yeah, you could just eat this. It's not going to be covered in the stuff that's super harmful to your health. And so there's that. And then also I would just add that, the scientists also say that because you are monitoring what's happening in these bioreactors, if there is sort of a contamination, you can tell. You can see things look different than what they should, things smell different than what they should. And so especially when you have like government oversight also as an extra layer of protection over this, I think it's pretty safe to say that it's very likely this will be a lot safer, at least from that pathogens point of view. And as you know in the slaughterhouses, it's like this escalating war against pathogens. I mean, the parasitic acid chemical they're spraying on chicken, chlorine based products that they're spraying is this constant fight against that. Right. And that just seems like a huge point that there's no manure involved. That would change the entire equation. Yeah, totally. Okay, this is an interesting question. When you ate the cell cultured meat, do you know what percentage was actually cell cultured? This listener's understanding is that most journalists are actually given a mix of cell-based meat with plant-based products. Yep. So, you know, a few of them were definitely a combination of the two. And I think that's a really great point. I'm so glad someone brought that up because I bet that some of the earlier, I don't know if this is too much to get into, but when you think about how meat is structured, it's kind of the muscle that offers a lot of the texture and the fat that offers a lot of the flavor. And one of the things that we can really use this sort of plant protein for is to help with the structure and sort of that like the mouth feel of things. And so I think the earlier products that we're all going to see probably will be a hybrid product. That said, I have tasted, it was a chicken tender that I tasted that was, I mean, you have to guess, I have to take this at the company's word. I asked, like, is this, how much of this is plant-based versus cultured? And they said, this is a 100% cultured meat item that you're eating. Interesting. And it tasted good, but I also have tasted hybrids as well. And they did taste fine. And I mean, I couldn't tell the difference personally, but I do think that that's like a really interesting topic. And that's very true. Like most of the, these early products that are being tried are a combination of the two. And I don't see that being necessarily a bad thing, but I do think that as this industry gets even more and more able to like produce its scale, you're gonna be seeing more and more of like where it's either entirely cell-cultured or, you know, 90% cell culture. Yeah. And we can't ignore that alongside this. There really has been, it seems to me, I'd call it a major breakthrough in the plant-based meat, which God, forgive me, what's the deal? Burger King released the miracle burger or something like that? Do you know what I'm talking about? Do you know what I'm talking about? The possible burger, yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. So it's interesting that these two things are kind of coming along at the same time. And I didn't know that they could be fused together like that. Okay, this is a really interesting question and I'm scared we're gonna fall down a rabbit hole and never come out. But we've got to address this issue with the regulatory agencies because it is such a big deal here. So here's the question. Regulators move slowly and the conventional meat industry may have an interest in not moving this forward. Which US regulatory agency or agencies are gonna own cultured meat in terms of regulating it, I assume. And what are the potential regulatory barriers from the conventional meat producers? Right. So there was a pretty big public fight about this a year, year and a half ago where the USDA and the FDA were basically duking it out with each other over who would get to regulate this. Many of the cell-cultured meat companies wanted the FDA because just the process they were using, culturing of cells is far more akin to the pharma world that the FDA already oversees. Then the USDA's work had been up until that point which the USDA does oversee a majority of meat. But the process by which that meat is made obviously involved animals and slaughter and line speeds and things like that. So there wasn't like a very clear owner of this space and there was a fight over it. And essentially like a truce was drawn that was led in part by one of these companies, Memphis Meats and the national sort of the NAMI which is like a major meat lobbying group. They kind of came together, wrote a joint letter, sent it off to the Trump administration and what sort of wound up being hashed out was that the FDA and the USDA would share responsibility for overseeing this kind of cell-cultured meat regime and that they would both work together to create the regulatory pathway. The FDA would be looking and overseeing a lot of the cell collection and sort of this like culturing aspect. And then on the other side of that, the USDA would concern itself with like the food safety element and the labeling. So they're sharing duties. And I think that in terms of the part of the question about where the meat industry could kind of like really get in and like disturb this process if they want to is that labeling element. What do you call cell-cultured meat? Can you call it meat? How do you label it? Like that is something that I think could really be a headache in the future but it's too soon to tell. And who knows if a company the size of Tyson gets in this business and really, wants to start selling this stuff, maybe that kind of eliminates a lot of that lobbying power that could sort of go into really screwing things up for cell-cultured meat companies. All that said, yes, the regulatory process is generally slow and red tape is tough to work through but right now as of this moment what the USDA and the FDA are really relying on is for cell-cultured meat companies themselves to basically deliver to them documents that basically lay out. Like here's what our process is going to be. Here are all the potential risks and hazards. Here's how those will be addressed. That's obviously gonna be a long, complicated technical document that basically dots all their eyes and crosses all their T's and it's once the FDA and USDA have like all of that paperwork and all of that documentation and you're able to then go through it that we'll be able to really move forward with this sort of regulatory pathway that can be imagined and actually made into a real thing. So yeah, totally and quickly before we move on I mean this like FDA, USDA partnership, how concrete is that? I mean have they actually started building some kind of agency or group or is it just sort of this agreement and principle where are we? Yeah, I know so the two of them basically created like three working groups that then like go in, they tackle different elements of this and it wasn't that it was I think back in April that the OMB, I believe, or one of the, or GAO released like a report that basically said like these two agencies can be working a little more closely together to get this thing done in an expeditious manner but like things are happening. Okay and that actually was the next question so I feel like we addressed that. Okay, this is really interesting. Switching gears here a little bit to look at the economy of rural America where raising animals and raising meat is still an economic pillar of many rural communities in the Midwest, the Southeast, the ranch lands of the West. So here's the question, do you think the enormous number of small cattle ranchers, dairy farmers and other small meat businesses are aware of the coming existential crisis that's coming their way? It seems to me that they're mostly unaware that these new meat technologies are likely to destroy their business model over the coming few decades. So do they know that this tidal wave is coming? You know, yes, I think that every single rancher that I've spoken to whether they're a small operation or a larger one, every single one that I've spoken with has been aware of this. A lot of them don't really take it very seriously yet but I mean, I think it is on most of their radar, I think they have heard of it. I think that they, and they talk about it and they usually use the term fake meat when they do talk about it. In terms of them sort of seeing this oncoming storm coming their way, you know, I think that it's easy to talk about this in a really dramatic way as if like cell-cultured meat comes on the scene and like the flip of a light switch, you know, it just sort of zaps, you know, all these farming families out of business which I don't think is really a realistic way of thinking about how this might unfold. There was a lot of work by some people in the cultured meat space to really go out and try to woo ranchers to incorporate cell-cultured meat technology into their existing operations to like try to convince them that you can do both. Whether that's like long-term sustainable, I don't know but I know that there is an effort to like try to like get ranchers to like buy into the idea and to start their own operations and create locally grown meat. And I think that like if you look at this in its most sort of blunt way, this is gonna be phased in over time. It's not like all the cattle herds are gonna disappear overnight. It's not like every ranchers when we put out a business overnight. This is something that I think will ease its way into like the public imagination, ease its way into like the economy. And yeah, I just, I don't see it as being something that's gonna be sort of like ravaged the community, the farming communities right away. And I think that different cell-cultured meat companies, CEOs have different levels of being blunt about this. Mark Post and the Dutch scientists from 2013 who unveiled the first beef patty is pretty forward when he's on stage and says, in the long term, there's probably just no future for you which definitely is like shocking and angers a lot of people. Other people in this space definitely take it a softer tone whenever they talk about how this will ultimately be integrated into our food systems. Yeah, it reminds me a lot of the tension and debate around, for example, autonomous vehicles. I mean, it's not like in the year 2023, all of a sudden there will be no truck drivers or any drivers. You know, things like this do tend to roll out over time. That kind of makes sense to me. Yeah, totally. Yeah. So, do you think, here's the next question. Do you think that the animal dairy industry will be the first to give way to cell-based dairy? I don't know what first to give way means, be an embrace it or have to deal with it. I do know. Maybe be crushed under the heel of. No, I'm kidding, I'm sorry. No, I don't know. I know there's a lot of angst in dairy world around a lot of food technology and it's hard to like, it's hard to begrudge any dairy community. They face a lot of really challenging economic issues and have for years. And so I do think that they are very anxious about these kinds of things. I do think that there are companies in Silicon Valley, you know, perfect day comes to mind. That have basically trained yeast to create the same sort of like, casein or whey protein that you find in milk to make sort of a totally cow-free cow milk. And, I mean, that, I think that they have established relationships with multinational, like at least one massive multinational company already. So, will they be kind of like, have to confront this? Yes, they will have to confront this kind of like food technology that relies on fermentation to like create a product very similar to theirs. And they're probably going to, if time has taught us any lesson in terms of how they've responded to plant-based milks, I think they'll probably be dragged along, kicking and screaming with this technology too. I was about to say, I mean, they've still got oat milk and almond milk and all this other stuff to deal with. And they're absolutely, they can to like, you know, fight those. I mean, they're going state house to state house and trying to limit how plant-based milks can label their products in grocery stores. Yes, yes. So, hey, here's a really interesting question. It's a two-parter. First of all, where does this stuff stand in religious terms? Is it halal? Is it kosher? And then along with that, is there any partnership between religious movements or vegan movements and this technology? I think we've described the vegan connection, which is very strong. But what about kind of the religious element? Is this stuff halal and kosher? So that depends on who you ask. Okay. The rabbinical community has done, I think a lot more, and my reporting experiences may have changed since the last time I reported in the story, but at the time, it was sort of the kosher authorities had done a lot more thinking on this than the halal community had. And it really depends on who you ask. I mean, there is a pretty high-up rabbi in Israel who has been so bold as to say that self-cultured pork would be okay to eat. They're the sort of massive organization here in the U.S., the Orthodox Union, the president of their kosher division, Rabbi Menekam Ghanak, is super, super excited about self-cultured meat, mostly because it really falls in line with this kind of Jewish prepare-the-world mentality. I mean, there are so many, the amount of animal death, the amount of pollution and climate change impact from animal agriculture, he's really optimistic about this as a potential tool to address those issues. And he does not think that self-cultured pork would be okay to eat, but he does, you know, one of the conversations I had with him, he could envision a self-cultured cheeseburger being totally fine, one of the things, and that kind of gets into this like really interesting topic, sort of cultural topic of what is, what, if what happens to a cell during this process fundamentally changes its nature. That's kind of the idea. If you put a beef cell through the self-cultured process, does some element of its nature sort of fundamentally transform making it into an entirely different type of food altogether? I don't think that they would argue that this food is kosher necessarily, but they would argue that it's par, which would mean it's like a neutral food and that you can eat it. And they do have sort of some precedent, you know, one of them being the, it was an ingredient called L-cysteine, which is used in bread making that can come from the feathers of certain birds. And they sort of argued that L-cysteine, I mean, this gets in way too deep in this and so I won't go too far into it, but basically there is precedent to their whole idea that like a cell transforms its fundamental nature as it goes through this process, making it okay to eat this meat with like cheese for instance. So, you know, there's a really rich dialogue happening in sort of the whole on kosher communities over like, what does this mean for like our religious sort of culture? And this does touch on one of the questions, how do they get the cells? How do they get it out of an animal? Where do they get it? Yeah, it's, you know, when you talk to the scientists behind it, they talk about it being sort of a pretty harmless biopsy.  Okay. And, you know, I think this is also tied to this question about the religious questions and the deeper philosophical. Is there a risk here that this thing gets associated with veganism in the following sense that the idea is no more meat, no more animals and that that could be maybe a controversial, a controversial cultural sticking point. I think that's the question here. Is there a risk that this is the face of the end of meat as we know it? I think that it's very possible that there will be people out there who just never really buy into the idea or feel curious about trying self-cultured meat. And I think that it is that kind of an idea and that sort of a mindset that will always mean that animal agriculture in some form will exist, whether it's in like a premium product or to like service, you know, a segment of the population. I mean, this isn't the most optimistic, you know, worldview for self-cultured meat companies that they just suddenly take over most of the market over a long period of time and that animal agriculture gets whittled down to, it probably won't be nothing, but there will be like, you know, a very select market for that kind of product. And that's super likely. I don't think that the vegan aspect of this is ultimately going to like be what people, I don't think when you buy this in the store, you're going to be like, this is the vegan option. I think it's going to be, you know, whenever I, whenever anyone, and I do buy oat milk, but like when I buy oat milk, I don't think like this is the vegan option. I think this is the, for me, I'm just like, this is the lactose free option that like it's going to be better for me and it's easier for me to eat. I think that like self-cultured meat could be something similar to that. So I want to wrap, you know, since we're getting a little close on time, let me please wrap two questions into one, what this future might look like. So one question is, you know, Impossible Foods says they're basically going to make a plant-based version of everything all the way to the sirloin steak. What do you think of that? Do you think that plant-based meat can replace meat or do you think that the cell-cultured meat is going to be part of the mix going forward and then related? Could you please talk a little bit about the breweries where this stuff would be made and about those bioreactors? You know, one questioner's wondering how many people would work at a bioreactor plant? Do you have a sense of their environmental impact? Would they be super polluted? Do they have a high carbon footprint? So those two questions, what would this look like in the future if this becomes really common?  Well, the first one is like, do you think impossible meat in these plant-based things would be the total replacement? So I don't, you know, plant-based imitation meat products are super interesting. I think there's a lot of very, very cool science and technology that goes into making them feel and seem as much like the real thing to sort of mimic all the functionality of meat. That is a fascinating space. And I think that the issue of prioritizing or really leaning into that functionality element of food is an interesting topic for another day. Yeah.  They taste fine. I think they, to a lot of people, especially the mouth feel, whenever you pile it onto a burger and add tomatoes and condiments and mask the flavor, I think that it does a really good analog for meat. But I think that the taste just isn't there yet. And I think that the other element of this is the nutritional element. Self-cultured meat is basically saying, this is real meat. On a molecular level, on a nutritional level, this is the same thing. Plant-based meats cannot say that. They can't say it's the same thing. And I think that that's an interesting differentiation between the two products. So impossible foods and beyond meat can certainly develop and carve out their own space in this, but they will never be the real thing. Self-cultured meat is the real thing. And at least on a molecular and nutritional level, and that's a big selling point for them. As to what the sort of plants would look like, I think the answer to that is that, no, they will not require the same sort of labor force. You don't need thousands of people operating a massive room full of bioreactors. Does that have labor implications? Absolutely. As to what these look like, they're building their first pilot production facilities now. So it's kind of tough to say what they'll look like in the future. Whenever you talk to one Israeli company that's super interesting, future meat technologies, their first bioreactors, I think are these 600 liter ones. They're basically the size of a refrigerator. And the way it was described to me is that in a several weeks time, they can basically grow the equivalent in one of these refrigerator-sized bioreactors, the equivalent of about 1,000 to 1,200 chickens. So that's a lot of meat and one single 600 liter bioreactor. Once you get bigger than that, and some of their schematics and illustrations that they've created, certainly illustrate these, what these future plants might look like. They're even bigger bioreactors. So all that to be determined, all of it will be super interesting and I can't wait to be able to tour one and actually ask lots of really important questions around how this works. How does the food safety element sort of figure into the way these places are set up? What kinds of bioreactors are you using? I mean, this can be as nerdy or as broad as you want it to be. Yeah. Well, on that note, I'm getting the digital hook around my neck here that I think it's time for us to wrap. And I want to thank everybody for joining us today and I really want to recommend. I loved this book and you've got to get it from solid state books before this is over. It's great reading right now because it is in the middle of a really important issue but it's also not super depressing and cataclysmic. It's a really interesting story about an idealistic technological movement. So check it out. And Chase, thanks for the reporting on this and thanks for joining us today. I really appreciate it. So thank you, Chase. Thank you and thank you everyone for joining.


Hello and welcome to a new series where we're going to be making a very small game without typing any line of code. Of course we're going to be programming but we're going to be using visual scripting and we're going to make a very simple clicker game. For those of you who don't know clicker games are games where basically the main mechanic is clicking and since our brains are so fucked up that we want to see numbers go up, we will be clicking forever. I don't actually recommend you to try any of the games that I'm showing right now but if you're curious I'm sure that you will find them interesting. Just to make sure, don't ever start playing one of those games if you have something to do because you are probably not going to do it. So let's go ahead and start here an empty project. Let's create with user interface as we're used to in this channel and let's call this main which is the name of this scene, let's save it as main as well. Now that we have this scene ready let's start adding the most important things in clicker games. First of all a button which is going to be the make something. We don't have the theme yet to base this clicker game but let's say let's stay with something and a label which is going to be how many we have off that thing. Pretty simple right? Here we're going to have a number which is going to be going up and every time we click on the button we want to make this number go up. First thing is to create a script and since again we're not going to be writing like typing any code we're going to be using the visual scripting. Let's attach a script and here instead of the language gd script you can select visual scripting. Ok it's main.vs to the name of the file and we have it here. So if you follow my previous videos on graph notes you will see that visual scripting is very similar to that interface and how this work is a little bit weird if you already know how to program but for new people it might be interesting to discover how to create something with it. Here on this new panel you have the name of the files that you have opened so if you have several of them you will have them here I only will be using one for now. Here is the base type of the node which will have some extra properties so if you create this script with the base as the button this will be the button base type and here we have functions variables and signals which are the different kind of sections that we can edit for this particular visual script and here in the available nodes are all the different kind of building blocks that you have to create the logic of whatever you are doing. Let's connect the button here, the node, the press signal which every time you press it it will send a signal to this visual script. It's connected here with main and it's going to be on button pressed. So we have it here we see like a grid you can zoom in, zoom out, make it visible or not if you hide the grid it will be freely there otherwise it will just snap to the grid and you can actually change the size of the grid as well. Here is a function and this will execute a series of nodes which are called like that. Since we are not tracking how many things we have clicked let's create a variable that will store that information. Here if you press plus you get here a new variable and you can double click here and set a name which is going to be the count let's call it like count okay this is going to be our main resource for this clicker game and here you have the any it's on green and very weird to read it means what is the kind of variable that we want to have here and we want to have an integer which is basically a number which will go from zero to a lot. The value is going to be zero and we can close this so now we see that it will change to int I don't know why this is zero still let's see okay it's null right now and sometimes this happens I think it like this feature is still a little bit weird sometimes like I had to set it to one and then back to zero so it refreshes I'm not sure if it will work anyway but just to make sure like I do this we want that every time that we press this button we add one number one value to this count there is a property here in the variables which is export and it makes it very handy for you to use the drag and drop of the program to modify these kind of values so let's go ahead and click on export and that will make it that whenever I select this main node which is the owner of this variable it will have here on the inspector the count and we can modify the value from here so now if I want to change this I can drag and drop this count variable here and here when I select it I have some extra properties now the operation that I want to do is add because I want to add a number which is going to be one so this basically adds one number to this variable and I connected to this node so now every time I push a button it will add a number to this variable okay but we want to display the label information right like we want to show this number on the program because if I run it like this and I press it this is not changing so let's update that label to do that I can click here on the label and here on the text field I can drag and drop it to here so now this will set the text and for the value here that we have the string value we can drag and drop this one to here which will get the value the current value of the count and connect it here so now that we have the value set there we can connect the line the white line and to the last one it's kind of complicated to think it like this but the white line which goes from every triangle to any other triangle is the order in which these things are going to be executed and the dots with colors are the values of those properties in this case the value I set it from the box itself but in this other case the value is being getting updated depending on the count that we have here let's try and see if it works because I'm setting an integer to a string and there are different kind of variables the text variable should be able to convert it but I'm not sure if it's going to happen automatically yeah on properties you want a text of invalid set value one yeah so we need to convert this integer which is a number to a string and how can we make that well here's where we have these nodes the different ones so if you go here and start searching them you will see that there are so many of them so many different kinds of functions but there's a search here that you can type and maybe int let's see to in here string to int so there would be a int to string string let's see construction here string and int so now we convert this value and instead of connecting it there we connect it here so this int is going to be converted into a string and the string is basically any text that we can display and the converted value is going to be updating the label let's try it out again see if this works yeah we can make that number go up and that's the basis of any clicker game okay let's let's do one more thing let's make this new button which is gonna be again here we have the recent ones it's easier just gonna be auto clicking okay and the auto clicking is gonna have another label which is gonna be how many auto clickers we have right now we have zero auto clickers i'm going to start organizing this a little bit better also i'm gonna start using these containers it's gonna be the horizontal box container and let's go ahead and add the button and the label so that way i have in this container both i select this option which will make sure that children are not selectable like the label says right here on the screen and now i can move it anywhere like here maybe okay this is gonna be the auto clickers this is gonna be the button and the label for how many do we have so again it's a new thing to show let's do that every time that we click on the auto clickers it will generate clicks automatically let's create a new function for these auto clicker things let's go on the button on the node and connect it as we did before to the visual script but this time instead of on button press on auto clicker let's rename the name of the function auto clicker pressed and auto clicker pressed yeah so every time we click the auto clicker let's create a new variable for it it is gonna be auto clicker let's edit the variable to be an int let's do the trick for the value it's gonna be zero sorry one and then zero and the same thing but we're gonna do it in a different way here i show you how you can add it with the weird stuff like selecting the export variable and anything like that but here i want to show you how to do it with these same variables so if you drag it and drop it you get the the value only getting it but if you keep pressing control in windows or linux i think it's command on mac and you drag it you get the set so here you can set the value from that and there are infinite ways of setting the value so i want to show you now how to do it with the operations here it is gonna be the math operation add here you have two values and it will return one output so since the output is gonna be what i want to set the clicker let's connect it already and first of all we want to get the current value so we drag and drop it so we get the value for a here if you select the inspector while clicking on this note instead of saying any type that we want to add we want to do an integer so we are adding two integers together value one is the current value value v is gonna be one so we are adding one to the auto clicker variable and we are setting it to that value we connected so this is this should set it the same way as we did before but using different visual nodes now we want to update the label so we will do the same that is going to be the same we drag and drop the text and now we need the conversion which was string and int here so now we convert the value of the auto clicker to the label and we connect it like this okay so here i have the entire thing which is making basically the same that we did in the other node on the other function sorry which is this one but in a more complicated way you can see that there are many different many different paths that you can follow let's try it out see if it works i wasn't clicking yes we are getting the auto clickers going up and yeah when i click on make something the total value goes up as well okay let's now do the auto clicking to work properly we want that every time we have the auto clickers like for every second we add a number to the count here on the functions there's like a drawer button where you can click and you get all the pre-made all the the functions that you have available by default on any node the one that i want to use is process this one as you can read here it will happen all the time so every frame is going to be running through all the logic that i have inside a function and what i want to do there is to now figure out how i can get if a second has passed or any particular amount of time has passed and if it has passed then add the amount of auto clickers to the count number to make it more simple let's create just a second called variable a variable called second we just gonna track how many seconds are passing by second okay and now delta is the time that happens between each frame in a second i believe i could be wrong i'm just i'm not very used to working with delta because in game maker it wasn't incentivized but anyway it should be something like that so what i want to do is add delta to second and since i'm not sure about this and you're gonna find yourself into this situation let's try to do a little bit of debugging or just live coding or whatever with visual scripting which i don't know i think is interesting set the second let's as we did before add operators math add let's see we want to add the delta to the seconds and that's gonna be the new value for the seconds okay so let's connect these options remember if they don't have a white arrow they are not getting executed they are only for values the white arrows is actually the program running and getting from this node to this node to whatever you have okay this should be adding delta every frame to the seconds variable but i want to see how it's happening so let's print it out in the output let's see print this function called print which will get any value and we'll show it to you in the console uh we want to get the seconds again like what are the values of the seconds okay i hope you're getting the idea of how this works but basically function process every frame we add to the seconds like the delta value which is gonna be different every frame but at the end of a second it's gonna be one now that we have it we're gonna display it on the terminal let's try it out okay there's an error okay afloat and anneal because of course this is anneal that's the bug i forgot about so value is gonna be an integer or not afloat float is basically a number with decimals okay so right now second is gonna be let's change this that's a very annoying bug i'm gonna submit that bug right now okay so value is gonna be zero and now we should be working let's try it out again yes you see one two three four five six seven okay it seems like it's going like i intended okay so now we have this thing going up all the time let's squish this a little bit together okay and i'm gonna set i'm gonna be doing that every time this second is bigger than one okay if it's bigger than one it's gonna go back to zero and i'm gonna execute something so every time we get this number you see that it's getting added just by a little bit when we get to one number we do something how can we make that here i guess bigger than no on operators maybe logic it's probably a compare yes a compare okay greater here okay so if we have a number a is greater than b is gonna give us a pooling so what do we want to check we want to check for floats and b is gonna be one which is gonna be our limit and a is gonna be our number so if the second is bigger than one this bool which is true bool it means boolean is gonna be only true or false this will give us true or false depending on if it is bigger or not um oh my god i i hope you're understanding this it's quite complicated to explain it because i have all this in my head but it's hard to put it into a tutorial okay so if you're still with me okay now that we have this if you have these white arrows and you don't know what to connect it to or you want to create a condition of anything you can drag and drop it to the to any empty space and when you release it you will see here like different things that you can do here you have the print that i searched for before and that way just for convenience but now we want to do a condition because the condition is gonna be this one if this one is true this will happen if this one is false this will happen and after everything of this happened you can continue the program from here um what do we want to do now i said to reset the seconds to zero so i keep press control and i drag it which is gonna be set to zero so if it's bigger we set it to zero and if it's not we do nothing okay what happened when we set it to zero well now i want to add all the auto clickers to click so every time a second happens all the auto clicker value is gonna be added to the count so we do the same we do the adding we get the value of the auto clicker we add it to the count and that's gonna be the new value of count so i press control draw it set to count that's gonna be the value so after we set the seconds to zero which means that this will happen every time because we're only checking for one after we set the value to zero we set the count to the name the number of the auto clickers we can remove print because we don't need it and i hope this works let's try it out okay a float what arguments fail a nil okay second is still being nil two hours later okay so after hitting my head against the wall for a while i think i figured out the issue and the issue was here on this step because the game doesn't really like me to set this to other to zero so i went and created an issue on github explaining what i found and this is what you're gonna have to do unfortunately with these kind of features so let's try to modify a few things and let's try to get this to print again sorry for okay let's drag and drop this to the space and do a print to get here the value and see if we are actually adding it correctly like before okay yeah it's being added so now that we know that it's being added uh let's connect this to the condition which is if it's bigger than one do this let's print again after it's done to see if this is resetting like it should be it goes to one and it goes okay let's see let's go back okay it's never one exactly right yeah it's never one exactly because of course this makes it bigger okay so when it's bigger it is doing that it's setting the seconds again back to zero and then the count should be adding the auto clicker okay let's do some auto clickers here let's make five oh yeah but the label is not updating so we actually should be updating this number all the time because if you remember we only update the label if we press on the button here so instead of doing that here let's go ahead and update the label on every process that we have here so every time we run we're running this value we are updating the label so let's go back to the label that we want let's get the text and now let's get the count and let's set oh sorry let's get the count transform it into a string oh transform it into a string and now that we have the string we can connect the process the first thing you're going to do is update the label to get the value and then we can do the second thing okay so when we're having different options different connections and things like that inside one of the same scripts but you want to make it a little bit more organized there is a thing which are comments here you have them and it's a perfect kind of note that you can overlay or underlay I'd say on boxes to make it more like easier to read so this time I want to select all this and the comment for this is going to be updating the count label so we know that all that logic over there it's only going to be updating the count label and we can ignore it because it seems to be fine and the rest is going to be the rest of the script so let's try it now if I click it it's going up and if I have an auto clicker it should be adding one every second two auto clickers to four seconds and if I click it goes up and I think that's it even if we have some issues with it at the beginning and even if it's a little bit more complicated to get to understand these things I haven't touched my keyboard almost at all I can do all this through visual scripting and as you can see here you don't have to write any line of code to get all this to work okay this is this was not planned for the video but I tweeted about my frustration while I was looking for the error and creating the ticket and actually Juan the creator of got out answered that they are planning on rewriting the visual scripting for version 4.0 so I will try to make all my suggestions on time and I will do my best to also help them make this a reality it was just a quick note that I wanted to show here just to make you understand how great the community is and how fast they respond to any kind of feedback that you have so I hope you you so I hope you got a general idea of how visual scripting works and on the next videos I'm going to be adding more options like this to the clicker game and probably the day I don't think it's going to be bigger longer than three videos or so so I will try to get them out quickly if you have any extra question about visual scripting feel free to ask hopefully after I finish this video series I can create a few more issues to github so they can actually improve it and make it work even better and also I think I'm starting to get a few ideas on how to make this a little bit simpler to understand because there's a lot of things design wise that could be better on it but if you don't have any programming experience and you want to start trying things out this is a great way to just dive into a game and start making things also if you want to help me make these videos there's a patreon link and I know that most of you live by now so if you are still there while I'm talking to you right now I'm really really grateful and remember to leave any comment or whatever that you want me to get I read all of them of course and yeah thank you so much again and see you on the next video bye


I forgot I should be using those You would have thought let's go cooler. Oh my god Not like this dude not on the brink of demotion. How's it going everybody? That's a joy here with another round of Dragon Ball Fighters ranked matches We're playing cooler by the way because our backs against the wall. We're almost on the edge of demotion We're going against the Super Saiyan Blue of all and I love that.  He should probably be upset about a lot. What I didn't follow him Okay, I'm just gonna I didn't respect it. Oh Be honest I hit a button there because I thought I was gonna try to tech Yeah They have cooler. Why'd you get such a cool-looking beam? And then have to say the best voice line ever with it. I Probably shouldn't have tested Vegeta there. This dude is really patient. I can respect that. I'm not sure it's been helping him but if I was like I don't know more smooth with it. I could definitely see it being trouble. I didn't I jumped I'm just like that You see once you get a couple good hits in with some patience The momentum really goes sideways If you get some good hits in that was my bad probably should have been more amped up on defense there Whoo. All right, that's fine. This is still a good show Never mind. We were very lucky that hit I'm just gonna go into a hard knockdown. We're not in the corner. Yamcha doesn't get let's be real Yamcha gets no options here, but it resets us back to neutral ES three bars. We can play a bit of this I'm totally fine with it. Oh That could have been so good for us. Let's try it. Okay, it does work We might be looking at a kill here. Should we spark for that? You know what? This is not a lot of damage That was nothing dude. That was that was such a bad mistake on my part I really I never do that so I really underestimated how much we would get from that. It's gonna level three here Okay, that's fine.  You don't want to go up against the level three Goku But that's exactly what that might be exactly what you get a Real number 15 situation going on here. We'll see how we handle it step one should be getting Yamcha out I'm almost immediately. I hopefully not due to death Unforeseen death incoming Back tech here. Oh, he checked us with a grep Was really hoping that wouldn't hit Okay, I don't mind the snap. Let's go ahead read Yamcha's online book a little bit of a cross-up I'm keeping this combo nice and short because I do want to keep that corner. Let's be real.  That's it. That's a wrap I think I don't remember you gonna want to burst a mature Hopefully that input it twice if not it doesn't matter. We still take the win there Game that might be a game one thing. Hopefully it's not but I expect he won't be as lenient in the beginning as he was see Matches like these suck when you're on the edge because I'm gonna lose 2000, but I'm only gonna gain 2000 So I've really peaked out here Trying to DP accidentally jumped Inputs who needs inputs Overhead, okay, we see that coming I'm DP and all the way to work in school and I suck at this game. Oh Yikes, we didn't get the hit Nice overhead too. I like that Vegeno string. I don't know why I stood up There was literally no option that he could have done to hit me overhead quick enough But that was I was I was so odd by that Vegeno string that I think I Think part of me wanted to get hit as a reward to him our cancel Come on hit nice nice nice no conversion You miss this. I thought that was go tanks. Damn. Why is everybody in this game got blonde hair? More importantly, why am I why am I looking at the hair to identify characters? I saw that hair come up on the assist. I was like easy read boys slip my back dash takes care of everything You who gotta learn to tech All right, that's Vegeno down. That's good big problem character. You can see he really put a dent in my team a Real big dent dude. Come on. Are we serious now that then is gonna last the lifetime? Oh No Can you believe that's not what I wanted him to do? Oh Man, I I tried jumping away just to like in case he superdashed like a block That was really good at him to just go for the sweet and we're dead one bar only. Yep We keep go tanks out. He does he might not have even had time to switch if you want to do Okay In this situation you want cooler out, but that's not the hand we were dealt also eat that Goku He checked me. Wow I didn't expect him to check me off one jab, but I think he was expecting me to miss miss miss. Ah Well times. All right, if we can get go do tanks back in I'll be super confident about this match But I think we have to spark right now Please don't tell me you were expecting that.  Oh, he tried to get real optimal with it Let me get that report card young man Let me get that report card. Okay. I might be getting a little too obvious with the dragon rushes I just wanted to see this dude's grades. Oh, we're dead.  What's the point? Why flex this hard when you got seven bars in the bank? Oh, am I good? Oh, I might be speaking to Shenron. It caught me. That's a huge bummer. Yeah panic guard cancel. Oh, I didn't Try to get a little okay Okay, I'll take this.  In fact, we might level three We will I would like to keep the corner, but that's not the world we live in. This is a yamcha list world. I Think we go low here, or do we run up and block now we go low? Can you guys tell I wanted to be an anime star there? Oh with the warp coming up? No That was kind of That was so sick the Key Blast clash.  Wow it works. He's gonna down tech Super Saiyan blue evolved. No, Vegeta evolved.  Is it one to one or is that one to two? It's one to one Didn't I only lost a thousand points actually. Oh, I didn't get away from that and you got the conversion. Oh Nice. Oh, that was a real nice way to start it off cooler. It's too tall Cool is really too tall to be in this situation. Oh overhead nice huge loss of Goku there And no sparking blast to back me up Yikes, this might be a case where I lost too early. I let myself get into a bad momentum too early Can yonk to fight us out of it though try jumping again. I'm getting caught too often Just by it like random hits We down take here. I think we do we don't have a choice. Oh, no Hey block that. Oh, I think I saw the ghost it All right, nice enough for me, dude, please work guys, okay good I'm so afraid to use coolers level three.  I was definitely set up. Okay It's fine. That's fine. I'm not afraid of I'm not afraid of a yonk to 1v3. I am I'm desperately afraid Slow it down a little. That's fine. This is a not a level three knock down Can't really complain about that with too much with the option It would be hard to complain. I mean I could desperately do it some teammates, but that's fine God, it's hard to get in There we go. Well time super dash we in there now How do we play against a beam assist and the fastest beam? Too early on the super dash. I Got to take out go tanks. I can't switch them out. Nice But again, like I said, and it's like poetry. This isn't a good situation for me either add choice to throw a key blast at that range You can hope for a drop, but it's not likely. It's all over for the second round a third round technically One two, okay, I don't even think it's possible for us to demote which really sucks Because I could demote here and it would be oh I can it's gonna be close I definitely think I will demote never mind never mind Except I won't cuz I'm about to win this whole thing Okay, that was a hefty read my sir Okay, he's going real hard for some reason Nobody told him to go this hard. All right, just drop this dude like a baby Come on, please work. Nice. It was so obvious Spanish oh No, not the birthday. It's nobody's birthday double Sunday. Right. It's calm down. Yikes and Yamcha, too. I Don't regret my decision, but I do hate myself Spirit sword wasn't quick enough on the block Rebars that's a kill. Oh At least have to bring Goku out nice We're a long way from a good situation if that's what I'm getting hyped for but that's that's where we are, baby That's that's the situation we're in. All right. I didn't want to do this, but I kind of want Vegeta Nice, I knew the I knew he would try to jump I threw in that low Cooler is a beast. Don't sleep on cooler guys. I want Goku back. Are you kidding me? I'm not letting you get that anchor. Oh, no, I Got you. I didn't get you. He's too fast. I didn't mean to down heavy.  I can't believe I reflected All right, level three level three sparking with cooler. I can do this cooler. Just needs to put in some work Please vanish something. Oh Is there a way he could bait out sparking here? I don't think so right unless it's with his own Either way, I can't really risk it Come on back down Goku No, no, no, this buys way too much time Get down nice Chase down even match Question is what do we do? I tried it. I tried to 3h through that. I really tried it boys Superdash doesn't work.  I'm down taking just in case Anybody has any tips and tricks on how to kill from here? I'd be open to the idea, but I couldn't think of any scream all you like Whether you like it or not coolers coming baby, you've got to watch these ex DPS Cuz I'm out here if I got an invincible. That's why I'm playing cooler. Okay. You caught me. Yeah, he's good Yeah, he's top tier, but I just wanted the DP. I don't ever have a character with a DP It's time for me to have some fun. I'm doing down medium cuz I'm feeling myself that Hmm. Oh, it's humble pie season, baby. Who's cooking up all this humble pie Not me cuz I ain't eating Eddie humble pie. Nah, I'm more humble than you could ever imagine Humble pie. I can't even imagine eating such a dish. Oh Fastest beam in the West. I thought you said we I'm just I'm making references y'all ever do commentary. Oh Okay, maybe I got a calm down bro, and maybe it's time to put the old ways behind us.  Oh, hello You wouldn't mind if I get some level three action. Would you do we grab though? Oh, you saw it coming. No, I didn't take And this one's a battle bro This one is a battle. Okay. I'll take that every day of the week. Give me that cooler, I love cooler Only movie I still own on VHS. I Love cooler, and I don't care who knows it. I forgot I should be using those Let's go cooler Scream all you like because you just met your match in the form of cooler. Oh Okay, maybe I'm dead. No, I'm definitely looking at that store if he Yeah, goodbye cruel world. Why did I reflect again? That's fine Not the end of the world it does it doesn't even up the match if not even give him an elite I have swarkin Nice run up on him. That was kind of brave actually. I Don't know where I got all that confidence to run up on him like that. Nice. Nice. Nice. Nice. Oh, he just did that level three You can combo off that. I've never seen a go tanks, too I mean admittedly that doesn't hit raw very much, but But still I've never seen that Why I Suck at Dragon Ball fighters. I still got sparking. Oh, nice. He just kind of backed off there I don't know why he froze up on offense. He's like, I'm not I'm not messing with this right now That's it. That's gonna wrap us up Three two we take the win in this set. Hopefully you guys enjoyed it If you did if you enjoyed this heart Hounder the the demotion risk. I don't even need to worry Of course, it's gonna go away and like one match against the Rose but who cares bro. Who cares?  Hopefully you guys enjoyed this if you did go down in the comments Let me know your favorite moment if you have one Let me know your thoughts on cooler as well as hitting that like button and subscribe to the channel if you're new Here we got all sorts of fighting game content to make sure you peep the the video screen right now There should be some up there and give those a watch if any of them catch your eye other than that I'm Dr. Doyle feel free to go follow me over on Twitter and thanks again for watching this specific video I will see you in the next one


Hey guys we're back on The Novice Show, it's your host International Nova. Now today's Christmas I want to wish everybody a Merry Christmas and a blessed holiday. We got some cool music news so let's get right to it and in today's news Tupac is back. Well not quite but the Tupac movie has finally started shooting here in Atlanta and it looks like the lead role of Tupac is being played by a brand new actor by the name of Dimitri's ship Junior and by the way he looks exactly like Tupac. Now what's a Tupac movie without the Notorious VIG? Well it looks like Biggie Smalls will be played by the actor Jamal Gravy Willard who also played Biggie in the Notorious movie a couple years ago. Now it looks like the movie will be released in 2016 and his title all lies on me. Now with other news 50 Cent is suing Rick Ross for $2 million. Now it looks like 50 Cent is pretty pissed that Rick Ross used the beat for his hit song in the club on his new mixtape the Renzor Remixes. Now according to 50s lawyers they are just trying to protect 50s reputation and are looking for their day in court. Now guys I'm excited to tell you we have a lot of cool things coming next year and I cannot to cat out the bag just yet but just know in January there will be a lot of announcements on some cool things. Now with that being said again I wish you guys a great Christmas a happy new year please be safe spend some time with your loved ones and until next time you guys take care