If you want to pump your body and expand your mind, there's only one place to go. Mind pump, mind pump, with your hosts. Sal DeStefano, Adam Schaefer, and Justin Andrews. Dude, by far, my favorite interview at Paleo FX, and maybe one of my favorite interviews of all time. I think this could be my favorite episode of all time. It's close for me, because then Greenfields was fire. Greenfields was really good, too. Yeah, I definitely think if you liked Ben Greenfields, you will also really like this. Because we touched some stuff that a lot of people, I think, shy away from. And I think that Ben Greenfield and both Paul Check are incredible people to talk about.  Yeah. You know, like, we just made it to the Wonderland. Well, Paul is so animated, too. So that's what I'm like. I wish you could see him. I mean, when we were doing this podcast, he must have stood up four or five times in the contagious. Oh, and getting super excited. Check, Paul is, he literally is the godfather of the wellness industry. No joke. He is the person who has brought so many of the health and wellness practices to the mainstream that we take for granted now that we think, oh, I heard about this first on so-and-so's podcast, or whatever. Paul Check's been talking about that since 1984 or whatever. Like, the dude, super, super brilliant. He practices what he preaches, great guy to be around. And he does go off on tangents. He does go down rabbit holes. If this is one of those episodes, you're going to want to listen to more than once. I'm for sure going to listen to this episode more than once. One of my favorite conversations. Now, I do want to say one thing. We do touch upon, you know, just one of the many topics we cover in this episode. Paul does talk about plant medicines. Now, he did want to say this. He wanted me to read this off because he's also understands that there's a great deal of responsibility when sharing some of this information. Now, Paul is a, he's a legit medicine man. He has a, he's a spirit guide through the Native American Council and he's licensed under the regulations of the Native American Council to use plant medicine in healing ceremonies. He does not condone the recreational use of sacred medicines. And he encourages that anyone who wants to use them as part of their healing or conscious growth process seeks out a skilled shaman and or healer for skilled guidance. And he wanted us to say this because it's getting really popular now that people use these things and they're not respecting them. And we talked about that in this episode, but we talked about so much more. Well, this is why I really like talking about this topic is cause I feel like there, it is becoming a trendy thing right now. We ever, especially being down when we were down here in Paleo effects and we had this conversation, you know, Iowa's and DMT and, you know, all these tools that are all these medicines people are using and it's becoming more of a hip, cool thing to do versus like people that are really putting the work in. And I think he addresses that really well in this episode. So what a great guy. But we go all over the place with this episode. One of my favorite conversations actually of all time, not just on podcasts.  That just blew my mind. There were several of those moments in this episode. A couple of sayings in there. You want to pay real close attention to you because it's just, yeah, it's just the seed that just drops. I love how he, it's like a ride. When you're listening to Paul, you get, he'll say something that will challenge your beliefs and your thought process that will borderline, maybe even offend you.  Yeah. No, he'll just, he'll say something so powerful that you want to like pause the conversation. Like, whoa, we just get back that up. Say that again. It reminds me of like sometimes I'll read a book that's profound and I don't know if you guys will do this. I'll read a page and then I'll have to close the book and think for like 10 minutes about what I just read. That's, that's kind of what happens when we talk to Paul. So Paul also has, we recommend heavily to personal trainers, his courses. They're the most, in my opinion, well-rounded courses. If you want to make, if you want to be a really good personal trainer and coach and really focus on total health and wellness of your client. Now we did talk them into hooking up our audience. So here's what you're going to get. If you're interested in taking a look at what the check courses look like, this is what they're going to do. He's going to give you a free check, healthy course cycle checklist. And he's also going to give you free access to the first lesson of the holistic lifestyle coach level one. This is huge. He doesn't do this to many, many people. So here's what you got to do. You go to check institute, check a spelled C-H-E-K, institute.com forward slash mind pump and you'll get lesson one for free. And then you can see for yourself if that's something you want to pursue. We highly recommend it for sure. That's it. And also this month, we are giving away the nutrition guide, our intuitive guide, excuse me, and our fasting guide for free. If you enroll in any of our maps, fitness bundles, you can find all of those at mind pump media.com. Now it is my pleasure without any further ado to bring the Paul check interview with my uncle Paul. This could be fun or it could be go really wrong. Sex with an octopus. Where do I start? Imagine you head for the middle. Oh my God. I think that's written somewhere, right? It is now. It's gonna be a proverb somewhere. Yeah, oh my God. Head for the middle. We had you for the first time on our show. When was it? When do we have Paul on the first time? What, two years? You guys came to see me. We came to see you. At the heaven house. Yes, and so that was like two years ago maybe. Close to it, yeah. Two years ago and at the time, we had known of you. I had known most of you because I had someone who worked with me who was a check practitioner. And I knew of your work and I remember telling these guys. And I said, this guy's the, no, thank you. What I called you the Godfather of Wellness. Yeah, thank you. I said, this guy's been doing stuff with wellness that we're hearing about now for a very, very long time. A lot of these things that we think are new of, you know, he's been talking about. And, but I didn't hear, I didn't see you out in our space a whole lot.  He's not on social media. He's not, he's not, but the people that knew you really, really loved your stuff. You came on our show, great episode. We had a great time with you. Came on a show again. I am seeing you all over the place now. You are now in this space in a big way. Now we got to be honest and tell Paul too, before we ever met, we almost didn't come out. And I remember part of us were like, eh, I don't know about this guy. We didn't know anybody. Mike was the only person that we had met. And it was, it was a little guy vouching for him. It was a really good thing that we met him before we met you because we really, really like Mike as you do too. And someone like that, he's focused. He spoke so highly of you because I'll tell you right first, if you're an outsider looking in at you, people think right away like cold guy, massive ego, all about trying to gather this net. Are you really, you know, people think that. It's because you have such a strong influence. It is, it's because of the lives you changed. And I understand it now because I've been apart and I've been around it, but before that we didn't know. And we had to work some really late night and then we were gonna have to get on a plane really early to come see you. And we're like, ah, should we do this?  And we're just like, that's bad business. We're gonna go out there no matter what to meet him. And I remember all of us were like, oh my God, how crazy was this that we would have not met him and would have probably got sucked in with the way everybody else thinks that doesn't really get to know Paul. And it was probably one of the best interviews I think at that time. Yeah, game changer. And now you're all over the space. I've seen you in all these bigger podcasts. Your presence is bigger. Are you getting like, how is it affecting your business? How is it affecting you? Cause it seems like things just exploded. Well, what part of it is, is I think a lot of people heard me on your podcast. And we've had many, many business experts and Penny and James who do our marketing have taken lots of marketing training. And over the years, they, you know, it's kept leaning towards more and more social media type stuff. But it's very challenging for me. Because I watched the way Ben Greenfield and you guys and a lot of other people have to work.  And, you know, and I look at Doug and I didn't see the 50 year old, but I saw the men who's like got a lot going on, man. Like, you know, mothering the whole show here, you know, like keeping the kids running in every direction, but kids mean wires and obligations. You could throw us in that mix too. It's fine, yeah, we admit that. So it's very challenging for me with, you know, I deal with very complex clients that have real serious life issues and or our athletes that need to perform at the very highest level and offer dealing with challenges. And I have a business to run and I'm developing new course material. And I've got a two year old boy and I have a very hard time already walking the tight rope of making sure I'm living the life I'm teaching people to live because there's a certain point at which you cross the threshold into the black hole of being something for everybody else.  Or something for money that it's been very hard for me not to get swept into that because I have classes where students are paying me thousands of dollars to teach them very important information.  I might be telling you something that's gonna be exactly what you need to know for the next client you see.  There's no connection. They're fragmented. You can't do the work of a Czech professional fragmented. If I'm in a relationship with you, Sal, I'm 50% of this relationship.  You gotta be 100% there to be my 50%. And if 10% of me is missing, I got news for you but that causes 10% that you can't access and because I'm not accessing it, it's a 20% deficit in the relationship just like that.  You know the irony of this is you obviously have a deep passion for helping people and this is a message that you've been sharing for a long time. But never, I can't think of a time in human history where that message needs to be heard more. Like this whole fragmented message that you're, you've been teaching this for a long time but now it's more important than ever and the irony of it all is you have to use this technology in order to help people with it. It is. And so like for example, I do a lot of video blogs on a blackboard, you probably know that. And people will email me and write me, why do you use a blog on a blackboard? You need to get it. You need to step up your game. And you know, it's like, there's one thing. Listen, I've studied the biographies of about 140 of the greatest thinkers in the world. And you know what, there's one thing in common with all of them.  Einstein, David Baum, the list is very long.  You write it out, you meditate on it.  I draw birds and whatever it is by hand with color so that, excuse me, they're having a real experience. People can fake being an expert so easy today. More than ever. Right, you can't trust anything you see in the media.  I'm not into photoshopping. I'm not into trying to be healthy for anybody else. I'm into being myself.  People think I got cancer all of a sudden.  That's a love affair.  And it's painful because I know what's going on. I know what's going on in the soil. I know what's going on in the water. Do you ever feel like that breaks you? Do you ever feel like it's so overwhelming that it breaks you? Dude, I've had painful, painful experiences regularly. I gave you one right now. I don't, sorry if I cry. The part of the thing for being a presenter at Paleo is they had this company there doing headshots and the guy's apparently really quite good at it, real famous for his work.  And then so this guy took all these headshots and do all the modeling and then he puts his favorite ones up on the screen and Penny's favorite ones. And they said, what do you think? I looked at myself and I looked at myself with the same eye that I look at a patient or any of you. And I saw the pain. I saw the sadness. I saw the fatigue. I saw a guy that needs a year to go just paint and walk around naked and read whatever he wants to read and think on a blackboard and not have the pressure of a big overhead and people thinking my stuff's old and outdated.  Old and outdated.  Right, right.  So it's just, it's tiring at times. And it's sad for me too, it's a paradox because I love seeing a lot of the things that I really pioneered the awareness of were literally pioneered. Like I pioneered the whole concept of primal pattern movement. I developed the concept, I have a trademark on it. And people talk about it like it's old news and they go to Paleo and primal this and primal that.  I was lecturing on this, right? And so it's sort of like I watch a lot of people who are very, very shallow in their message oftentimes making a shitload of money stealing from guys like me, never giving us credit or even putting us in the reference list. And I'm seeing this sort of like fast food education version of what it took me a lifetime of committed mastery to be able to share with my students. Do you understand that was really our mission with Mind Pump was because we knew that and we saw that from being in the industry for 15, 20 years.  Do you remember what you said to us when we left that first interview?  I can't forget. I don't know if you remember. You said, you looked at us and you said, you know I was, you said something along the lines of I plan on doing a vacation with my family. I'm out here. I wasn't going to do any kind of work. Then you guys contacted me and something told me I needed to sit down and talk with you guys because this was going to help bring everything to another level. You actually told us that as we left the first time. Yes. And you also said something else earlier. You're talking about at Paleo when you did your talk and you had about 40 or 50 people approach you and talk about how you really impacted them. How you really, really made a difference in them.  You're obviously very happy about that. It is lovely. This is a, it's a, it's incredibly challenging, but there's also that kind of reward that I can see that is what drives you to keep. Cause you talk about how tiring it is. Yeah. Which you keep doing it. Yeah. And you know, I did cut back a lot. You know, Penny and I traveled almost nonstop around the world for 25 years. I made it around this entire planet twice a year, sometimes doing a hundred presentations year quite regularly. And my stuff's not just, you know, wham, bam, thank you, man. A lot of my classes are very intense. Like you go to check level three. It's a nine day course. It's very comprehensive anatomy, physiology. You got check level four. It's very, very deep, heavy integration of all that you've trained, plus a lot on the spiritual elements, the psyche, archetypes, mental, emotional issues, coaching people that are problematic and people are tricky to coach. The deeper you go into someone's core being, the more the ego reacts and defends and starts playing its games. Cause it's like a lizard that's just been caught by the tail on it. It's not sure whether to let you have its tail or to fight and run or listen to trying to run. And they're paying you and they're trying to run, you know. I guess now with, now that I see you on a lot of podcasts and more on social media, you're reaching so many more people. Is it, are you able to, are you finding out it's more, you're more effective? Are you finding that it's making it easier to work less to be able to do more? It's opening the door for more opportunities and actually the podcast I did with Aubrey when I was in Austin last time, we had a class, our last class, we had three people in it that came through HLC one to get to HLC two and said that the only reason they came is cause that podcast completely and utterly blew their mind and answered questions. They'd had all their live and no one could answer. And the class before that we had 11 people, all that same thing said that interview. Fantastic. And so the thing is is that Aubrey asked me questions that are deep that most people are afraid of the answers of that most people don't ever ask me. What's an example of that? Give me one of the deeper ones that he asked you. Well, he asked me what, what is God? When you use the word God, what is love? When you use the word, what does that mean? What is the difference between the ego and the self? People talk about this. There's a million different ways to interpret it. What is it? So, you know, these are the things that help a person. You know, if you don't understand the anatomy of your psyche, I have a question from you for you. Do you know who you are? Cause if you don't understand the anatomy of the inside of what you look at as your body every day and how it got there and what's breathing you, then really you're trapped at only knowing yourself as a body.  All real shit, man. I mean, right? Yeah. Comes out hot. Yeah. Well, so tell us about you. Who like what drives you to? Cause I have never in my life met and I love surrounding myself with intelligent people. I love having deep conversations. I've never met anybody with such a deep and wide breadth of knowledge. You can, we can talk about biomechanics. We could talk about anatomy. We could talk about hormones. We could talk about gut health. We could talk about God and spirituality and you know psychology and it's just, I've never, what drives you to, do you have an insatiable thirst for this knowledge or is it something else that's driving you to do all, to learn all this? Well, one thing, if you look, there's kind of two paths to God. And when I was a kid going to Christian Science Sunday School, something deep inside of me said, this ain't God.   And I'm like, I'm like eight going, how did I get here? Like this does not even make sense. And something so deep inside me said, this is wrong. But the point is as I grew up and saw what was behind the people's problems. You know, remember every action comes from a belief, right? So every behavior that's causing someone problem, whether it be a relationship with their spouse or a relationship with drugs or a relationship with sex, whatever it is, that relationship's behaviors are driven by beliefs. And most of those beliefs in our culture emanate largely from a Christian church, by far the most source of a belief structure is the Christian church.  When I touch it, it feels good.  And but then you're thinking, wait a minute.  So now what is it? You know, if it's not an Indian fire stick, it's nothing.   How do you reconcile, you know, all the things that make a human being human?  Oh, you know, you gotta be a vegetarian, not that I have that problem, I'm speaking for them, you know, but when you look at all the more you start to understand about yourself and about love and about what God is, the more you realize that the people that are confused that are so busy medicating themselves from the pain of touching their genitals or having sex on the side or lying or cheating or doing all the things that just make human beings, humans, we're smart monkeys that get in trouble. You see that there's a lot of pain and tension there. You know, it's- What do you say, Paul, what do you say to somebody who says they don't believe in God? I'll say you're probably better off because you're gonna find out anyhow. You know, right, like if you don't believe in God, well, it either means one of two things. You're either not a very deep thinker. You give up on this fundamental cause question, what caused that? You have to ask that till you get to the bottom. And when you get to the bottom, there's only one thing. It's either God or Allah or a mystery or the zero point field, but you get to an impasse.  I mean, it's the only one that fucks itself and gets pregnant. Oh, my God. That should be a sound bite, for sure.   But God, God's masturbating himself into ejaculation, which causes birth or putting its own hand up its own, whatever. Right? God is that. See, this is what I thought. This is what I thought you were going to do with paleo effects. I thought we were going to get this side of you out of the stage. I came here, I go, I go, if Uncle Paul gets going, man. Wait, but it was a first date. You're going to get invited back, right? Kid Fit Pro has an X rated on all my lectures. Warning. Really? Couldn't very controversial. Commonly uses foul language.  Well, speaking of God. Sign this waiver. Yeah. But I'm dead serious about all this stuff. So, so I mean, I know when you an atheist or doesn't believe in God, good. I say you don't don't believe in God. Good.   Do you think some people, though, have evolved now where they don't just look at that? Because I know, I feel like I know people now that use church as a guide to help them be better people or better humans and they don't get caught up in the dogmatic part of it. It can be. Do you think that's a healthy relationship with it? Yeah, you know, this is very, very deep subject material and I'm happy to go there with you. Are you asked for it, Papa? You know, no, I just said bring it.   We can't get any deeper than how we got here. I don't mind. It's just some of these things are not five minute explanations. I have to go through steps just like a, you know, like sure, sure. So just to finish the previous thought, look, if you just keep asking the question, what caused this? What caused this? What caused this? You get to an impasse and what made the universe? Well, what do you how do you answer that?  Death is all around us. And we see that death makes room for life. And if you meditate on that, could life exist without death?  I'll save you the meditation. Right? Look, you guys look in the mirror each day. You see yourself and it looks like the same goddamn Sal or Doug or Justin or Adam, doesn't it? Right?  That's right. Your skin cells, you're turning them over very quickly every three days. Your bone cells turn over about every three weeks. If we keep playing this game, you actually come to the realization that what stands in the mirror is more like a fountain, right? You go to the park and you're 50 feet from the fountain. It looks like a tree of water. We're a tree of cosmic energy. We're energy in formation. Everything in the mind of that, which we call God, is information that organized, directs, and forms matter and all bodies at every level, right? Up to light itself, which is a trick because it's a massless particle, but it makes mass. And that's the other thing.  And then you do some good proper shamanic medicines at therapeutic doses. And I'm a guy that's explored these things like I do everything. And I've been so deep into the complete dissolve of my ego and the complete let go of being pulled into that all I can say is the abyss of non-being.  And I've literally found myself in a journey crying for my mother because I was so close to complete psychic annihilation and entering into God. And I've actually said to God, God says, if you love me, let go. And I say, what about my family? What about the Institute? I can't leave Penny and die this way. She won't even get any insurance money. It'll ruin the Institute. And God says, if you love me, let me go. If you would rather continue to be you, I will always serve your every desire, but only one of us can take the lead. And there's been time for the medicine push me right through the eye of that needle. And I had no conscious mechanism to struggle. I just woke up and didn't even know that I was Paul check. I was just everything and nothing at the same time. There's no words to wrap around it. It's not wordable. It's just profound beyond word, beyond orgasm. It's just so profound that just when you come back from it, you actually think that this is like a puppet show comparatively. This feels very... So how do you keep yourself from not wanting to keep going back onto that side? I feel like people that experience that would want...  Because here's something interesting for you. On that side of the equation, love can't exist because love requires a subject and an object or a polarity. Love in my formula L stands for life, which is L for desire. You have to have the desire to live to be alive.  It's only because you all have the desire to live that you're here, isn't it? Right. Okay. So the L of love stands for life, which means you have to have the desire to participate to be here. O stands for zero, pure potential, unconditional love. Something that can't be defined as this or that. No polarity. No objective reality. VE stands for volt electron, the electromotive force, which is what creates material everything. Light is an electromagnetic reality. Volt electron stands for will. Desire and will are wife and husband. And those two constantly feed each other. And unconditional love only has two qualities. Zero is absolutely empty of anything, the feminine. Empty, but absolutely full of everything. That which has expressed itself as something knowable, positive. So VE projects itself out as the masculine. Love, emptiness is the desire of the womb, drawing into itself with such intensity that it creates its own imagination as reality, which we perceive as reality. But at the level of unconditional love, there is no, there's pure potential. There is not something here or something there. That's a condition. That requires a subject-object relationship. Like a quantum state. It's a super positional state in quantum physics. Or a zero point. So the zero, the magic of zero though, is that which is empty of itself is simultaneously full of itself. Because the vacuum is also the plenum. That's the trick. So the vacuum is the emptiness of zero and the plenum is that which it desires to fill itself with, which is everything. It gets tricky now. Because God is actually now. There is no past, present, or future in God. God is pure now-ness. So the trick question is, okay, if you imagined the biggest amount of time you could imagine, whatever that number would, I don't care if you take your pen and start writing zeros out on every wall of this house, how long would that be compared to the absolute? Pales. You get it? God is the absolute. And anything you can write, no matter how long you can write, it is always a relative of the absolute. It's never the absolute. And because the absolute contains the relative, the bigger you would make the relative, the bigger the absolute would be anyhow. Even though the concept of bigger doesn't apply to the absolute, because it can't be measured by any length, width, or depth. And by definition, it's beyond measure because it's the source of that which is measurable. So my point is that when you're there, everything else is not even conceivable. So the absolute has to have the relative for love to exist. So the empty produces the feminine force, the force of desire, the desire to move toward or to become, right? That's what a dream is, to become, to be a great athlete, to be a great lover, a husband, to make money, to have a garden. And then the will of the divine feeds itself. But the point I'm making is those two becoming each other at the speed of now, right? And matter, because it dreams matter into existence, matter ties light up, which creates the illusion of time, matters all floating in the abyss of the absolute. But because God dreams of being Sal and Doug and all of us, and God does it simultaneously because that's God, God's got that ability, the now becomes tied up in an illusion, which creates time. So the now is all there is because it's absolute, but within it is this illusion that we're gonna be born and die and things come and go. Do you believe we have a soul? Of course you do. How do you explain that to somebody? I've studied it very extensively and I practice communicating with my soul. That's one of the things I pioneered. I've never found anyone that teaches the soul the way I do and how to relate to it and work with it.  I've read over 120 books on the topic minimum. I define the soul as consciousness within. The soul is that which is experiencing itself. Well unpack that, that's too deep. Okay, so remember we just talked about zero, the absolute behind the relative. But if you enter the absolute, you don't even know there is a relative because you can't be an absolute and a relative at the same time. That's impossible, only God can do that. We are the absolute and the relative at the same time, but you see if your consciousness becomes absolute, then how can you be relative if your consciousness is absolute? So is the theory then that when we die that we become one with God? Well, that's another complicated question. But let me just finish that though. Look, if your member consciousness is unconditional love, that's God, there is no subject-object relationship there. That requires relativity, doesn't it? You understand me? It requires relativity. So God at that level is not conscious of God as God because God's super conscious, which just means to be conscious of everything. So if you're conscious of everything, you can't be conscious of something, you're conscious of everything. Or the wave is collapsed. If you have something to be conscious of, you've already collapsed the wave function. So at the level of zero, everything's happening all the time and every possibility exists now. It's an infinite number of possibilities. It's an infinite number of possibilities and all it takes is for you to direct your attention to one and it manifests, but you might think it took 20 years, but it took an instant, right? And these are complicated things for people who wrap their heads around. So it takes meditation. This is why I teach the things I do. And I say, look, you got to meditate on this. You can't just, it's not intellectual. You just, you think you understand intellectual, you don't. You have to go sit under a tall tree and think, okay, what would it be like to be completely one with God? And sit there until you have the experience and you walk away going, oh my God, I don't even know how I got back from that. I don't think it's something you can think. It has to be something you can feel. It's very, very feeling based because you... Almost like you experience it. Yeah, it depends on how you use the term think. You see, when we think, we use intellectual ideas. But when God thinks, God does everything that we do and everything beyond what we can do, which is a vast, vast, vast amount. But feeling is a better description because you can convey or you can experience a feeling that you can't put into intellectual language. Yeah, that's what I'm saying. That's what I said that.  So when I'm talking to you, we'll call it top of the pyramid, but down below are all sorts of feelings you can't convey. No, and this is an easy thing for people to understand because you tell someone explain... Use words to explain the love you have for your child. Good luck. You can come up with all these different words that we try to use, but nothing truly conveys that message. And back to what Adam's question was, with people who really dive deep into these subjects and tend to use some of these powerful plant medicines, we've run into people that seem to either maybe abuse it, but almost just want to get lost or want to escape. Yes, it's a big problem. And then you also see a lot of this, and this is a term that you introduced me to, which I thought was brilliant, which is spiritual righteousness. Yeah. And we're seeing... I feel like I'm seeing a lot of that in less of... And maybe that's just because we're all human, right? And less of the way you communicate it.  It's going to be awesome. I'm going to get all these answers or people who use it to escape every weekend. Well, here's a bit of a trick.  You know what that is? Get these things.  So that's not what sacramental medicines are intended for.  We've got to wait. Yeah, but really knows you. Yeah, but really knows you and works for free. Never too tired. Never complains about putting the elbow grease in. So what I'm saying is, is that the medicines open you up very significantly, but you have to be in the right environment so that you can be present with what's happening inside you. Like if you're at a disco tech doing a bunch of LSD or mushrooms, you're just drownded with sensory overload and it's cool like a new video game is cool. Like, whoa, whoa, man. Typical millennial. But if you do what my philosophy is, you get a deep and meaningful question like why can't I get rid of my anger? Why do I get so jealous? If my partner wants to have sex with someone else, even if it's somebody that I know is a clean person and I trust that it would be safe. There's a lot of deep questions we can ask about things that really limit our freedom and our ability to really enjoy our life and to love our partners fully. And those questions are not easy to answer at the level that they're coming from. You understand what I mean? The man that's afraid or the woman that's afraid to go deeper into love like that or to open up the boundaries a little bit is trying to solve the problem from the level of the fear.  It won't happen, it won't work. You can't. Like Einstein said, you can't solve a problem with the same thinking that creates it. So for me, I go into a ceremony and what I do is I write down what it is that I need more clarity on from God so I can live and love more fully and be more committed to and connected to and authentic with my mission and my vision and my values. I just have to re-emphasize what you said with, you can't solve a problem with the same type of way of thinking. Great quote. And maybe if I can communicate it a little differently, using a plant medicine is literally changing the way you think and then you can re-examine the problem. You have to change the literally the way you think. It's channel for it. It's a shift. And then you can see things from a different angle. You use the right medicine at the right dose and it doesn't change the way you think.  For example, my brother committed suicide when I was 35 and it was wickedly painful and very heartbreaking and I won't tell you the whole story behind it because it would be too much to go through and it's deeply painful and emotional. But I remember the emotion of my mother bringing an urn of his ashes and we took him to La Jolla at the Cove and my mom got a bunch of dried rose flowers. She took roses out of her garden and dried them and we thought that he would like to be put in the ocean at this La Jolla Cove. I don't know if you've ever been there. It's a really beautiful spot. And the power and the sadness and me, for example, remembering, I was one year older than him and he always wanted to be with me but I didn't want him around. I wanted to be with my buddies. I was older than him. I didn't want my little sidekick brother around so I'd push him away and just things like that. And when your family member like that kills themself because they're in so much pain they can't handle the world anymore, it brings a lot up in you. It makes you really look at how you behave toward that person and where you could have loved him more fully.   So the point I'm leading to is I felt that I had healed that. I'd done a lot of work on that.  And in many plant medicine sessions it came up very strongly and I would cry for hours and I would relive it with great intensity and each time I would be shocked that that was still in there. Were you scared to keep doing these? I feel like you would experience one of those and people would be like, I'm not doing that again. Yeah, you have to have spiritual courage. When you, God does not play games. Meaning when you disable the ego with a medicine and you have to work through yourself to get past yourself, does that make sense? To get to the rest of the world and the universe, you have to go through yourself first. And when I'm saying God doesn't play games, when you're on the medicines there is no bullshitting, there is no lying, there is no pretending. Consciousness is consciousness. It's coming up unfiltered. The ego's denial mechanisms are disabled by the medicine.  You are experiencing everything you've denied and repressed. If you've lied to people you love, you experience that and you often experience them experiencing it and the pain behind it. So it's not light going, you know. And if people are making it light going, they're either... That sounds like they're literally playing with fire. Yeah, they can be. And I can get into a whole lot. But what I'm saying is that you... I've done many, many journeys. Like I've probably done over 400 shamanic or medicine journeys in my life, easily 400 over the course of many years now, probably 15 years. And I have a very strong ego. You know, I used to race motocross. I was a boxer, kickboxer. You've got more testosterone than the three of us combined. Well, no, here's the point I'm making is I've faced the devil lots of times. I've been right close to dead. I've had motorcycle racing accidents where I've got internal bleeding. I've missed... One time I missed a bridge doing over 70 miles an hour and skipped across river stones the size of this foot rest here.  And I've had many damn luckies to be here. Completely unconscious for multiple days at a time from motocross racing accidents. And bad fights. My brother was very brutal and he was dangerous brutal. He had no rules.  And the other time with a 44 magnum turned upside down. He drove the hammer or the pistol right through my skull. So he's split my skull open twice fighting.  So my point is my ego through my military training living with the father that I had and the brother that I had and the intense high speed motocross racing and stock car racing and drag racing taught me how to stay fully present until I absolutely am forced to let go. Did you know you were, you were dropping into flow state back then? Did you understand? Oh yes. Oh, I had deep and powerful experiences. Oh my God. I've had experiences. Did you connect it right away when you were having it that early on? Well, I start to put it together over time. My mother took me into training and meditation when I was 12 with self-realization self-realization fellowship monks. And I went to summer camp. Oh, you were 12 when that happened. I remember you Mitch, I didn't know you were 12. And I went 15. I spent the summer with the monks. So I learned how to focus my mind and calm myself and use proper meditation techniques. So when I was like racing a stock car, I literally would reach a point where I was literally every stone on the track. I was every car in front of me behind me. I could feel the heartbeat to the drivers. I could practically look through their eyes. I was so tapped in. And I set three track records, my rookie year. And I, you know, I came from boxing and also, you know, for me, and I got just a natural ability to drive well.  Do you think it's driving well or actually maybe that training that you had, that age to be able to tap into something so important to harness? Because getting into those death-defying type of sports, you know, that you're talking about requires this serious flow. And some, I think, athletes just kind of fall into it. They don't realize a guy like you is being taught it at 12 years old. Yeah. Well, you know, one way to learn it is this. You see, when you're moving fast in a race car or fast on a motocross bike or even in a boxing ring, it takes about 750 milliseconds.  But there's nothing you could do about it, right? Because it takes 750 milliseconds for the information to get from your arms and the club in your hand to your brain, process it and back down to the club. Well, it takes about 750 milliseconds to go from the top of the backswing to the ball and through the ball.  So here's the point.   Your concentration comes to a very, very focused point. But the point I'm making is think about moving across whoop-de-doos that are very intense, right?  Like I used to ride in the rodeo too. You can't think about what am I going to do on this bull. You just hold the intention. Stay on top of this thing. And so my point is this. You don't have time to think, so you have to learn to let go and use your intention to put you on the other side of the fire.  You don't ride the bull right there. You're riding the bull right there, but the other part of you is already eight seconds past and the referee, the clown's coming to get you. When I'm racing a car, I'm not only look at the car in front of me. I'm looking five or six cars ahead of me. And I have to process what everybody's doing because at 100 plus miles an hour, if the guy five cars ahead makes a mistake, by the time we see it and step on the brakes, we've already traveled so close to them we're kissing tailpipe.  And it's like, oh my God, you don't have time to say, oh, I think I need to slow down. It's like, sorry, dude, boom, you're gone. Your car's ruined. You might be gone. So you go into a state that's beyond thinking. And that's when you're fighting.   And I don't like that. I don't like that. Understandable. You know, I am a good fighter. I'm a white guy and I didn't start fighting till I was 12. But I'm in the army boxing team with guys who at 19 years of age have 320 sanctioned fights.  And they started when they were like seven and eight years old and they fought every weekend and traveled the United States and their parents bought motorhomes and it was the whole life for them.  I mean, they're definitely slurred in their speech already. But here I am a guy that grew up on Vancouver Island, gym fighting. Once a year we might have had a tournament if we were lucky, but all the rest was gym wars. And I'm coming onto the army boxing team with like eight amateur fights or something. And I'm fighting guys with 300 fights under their belt.  And can tap into flow.   And when they can't hold their hands up, I would just, you know, hurt people, take the ribs out, take their brain out. And I was very good that way. But I got to the point where the fighters were so good, it was a question, could I survive long enough to get them tired?  These people hurt.  My left eye was going blind. And I'm having a hard time breathing.  And I'm like, oh my God, unfortunately, I got an eight count. And so I composed myself. I remember looking over at my best buddy, Ron Wallström, who's a wickedly good boxer. And he goes like this, which is our sign for wake up.   You're on your way out right now.     So it brings you into this sense of very primal, very... It's hard to put words to you. There's something inside you that knows it's a life or death situation.  There's no time to be afraid. There's no time to make excuses. Get the job done or get out. And when I'm racing a stock car or anything like that, you find most of the competitive sports like this are too fast for thinking. The point I'm leading to, this long way, forgive me, is this. The guys that think get hurt to teach them how to stop thinking. Do you get to a predictive point where you stop thinking but now you can actually see the patterns even before. So you're just really in a full state of reaction. So here's the beauty. What you get to is cells feeling. You cannot think you have to feel. When I'm fighting someone, I'm not trying to outthink them. I'm feeling because if I feel my body knows what to do, like I can throw a counter punch and not even know that I did it. Meaning I know I did it, but I don't know how I did it. It's not like I sat there and say, okay, here comes one. I'm going to hit him back. And most extreme athletes have experienced this multiple times. Yes. I mean, I've done things. I'm nowhere near like an extreme athlete. But you do something. You're like, how did I land that? Yes. Where did that come? Like I don't even know how I did that.  I was, things were happening so fast. I don't even know how I did what I did. And it would amaze me. Or I would see pictures of something that I, something I was flying through the air sideways and somehow landed it and kept on going.    Yes. And how, how does that serve you? Well, because I would, I would feel like at some point you feel like, well, I can do whatever I want. I'm invincible. Yeah. Like, no, well, that's when you're in trouble. Yeah. That's it. But remember the whole point of all this stuff was me telling you how I got through these medicine journeys. Yes. And I was saying, because when you're doing the kinds of things I did to entertain the need to be a man, you know, fulfill that desire, which as you guys know, can be very strong, right? From sex to money to power to feeling safe.  I mean, why do you think that's built into us? Because we're the protectors. That's our function. You know, we, we, here's the deal.  Yeah. Right? We're wired to stand guard.   Bears want you too.  So someone's got, and this is why men can have such laser focus. This is exactly why far more males have become enlightened than females.  You've got some of these guys sitting caves for years at a time and don't move, right? Or you have to be very, very, very consistent in your spiritual practices and really work on opening your heart and getting out of your head. I mean, it's a full-time conscious practice. How do you do that? Well, you're wiping butts, making meals, grinding corn, digging plants out of the ground, hoping your kids not getting eaten by a bear and daddy's, you know, got to be off hunting for something to eat to keep us going through the winter. So it's very, very hard for a woman and a woman's brain has 30% more fibers between the two hemispheres. They're called commissarial fibers. So there's a woman on average has 30% more neurons or nerve fibers connecting the left and right than you and I do. The brains are hyper-connected. Their brains are wired for surround sound so they know where their kids are at intuitively without even having to look. That's why they say don't lie to your girlfriend. You're up against somebody who's got hardware you don't have.  Yes, that's where those things come from. Oh, man, there's truth in that. Yeah. So, but the point is it works to protect the children but when it comes to doing the spiritual practices that ultimately lead to enlightened realization, men are better wired for that because you've got to stay completely focused on that because a lifetime isn't very long compared to how long it takes to remove all the programming from society and all the things that are in the way of realizing what you are. So I've been able to go very deep on medicines and many shaman have been completely shocked. I've worked with lots of shaman. I mean, I'm taking like a full hit of DMT which is enough to mow a grizzly bear over and I'll be full in but I'll actually start writing notes in my journal and drawing pictures while I'm in the medicine and a lot of them are like, oh, fuck, can you do that? That's not normal. And I say, well, let me tell you something, man. Can you get in a boxing ring with a good boxer?  Five times in three seconds. Five times in 1.5 seconds. No, I'm being facetious. I mean, nobody can hit you that hard and hitting and being loved with that intensity or different things. But do you feel that? Sal, you had, I'm sorry. Oh, yeah, go ahead. I was, you had a question. I just wanted to finish my thought. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I was just saying, basically, when does that ever hurt you that knowing that? Oh, yes, thank you. Yeah, yeah.  I'm pretty much educated myself, right? That doesn't mean I'm not educated. It just means I didn't do it the standard way. But you can find yourself as an example of spiritual pride. This is more than spiritual pride, though. It's more versatile than just spiritual pride. You can find yourself achieving a high level of success. Like, obviously, I'm pretty well known for my work and, you know, I pioneered a lot of very novel things that are used, like, you know, every time you go into gym and see a Swiss ball, I was the father of that concept. So I've done a lot of things that give me confidence in my intelligence and confidence in my system of learning and knowing.   I mean, how... Do you think it's that, though, Paul? Or do you think that you feel that way because you were driven so hard at such an early age, which was probably somewhat, I would think, rooted in some sort of an insecurity to push you to that level to learn and grow. And no one's ever going to be able to catch you. So do you ever think that...  Think about what that turned you into, a learning maniac. It did because his rule was I'm giving you this job when I come back, it better be done.  Get on the phone and call an automotive shop. Whatever you do, I don't want any excuses. When I come back, it's done. So I learned knowledge is safety. As long as I knew how to fix whatever was going on or get the job done. And then as a young man who left school at an early age, I had to go out and compete with men for jobs in the men's workplace. And I was 16 years old, right? So I had to work... My father taught me to work really hard, but I always had the sense that I had to up my game so I could make more money and climb the ladder because I didn't want to be on the bottom. So I studied hard and I paid very close attention. And I went to trade schools. I got my journeyman's training for automotive and industrial repair. I did a lot of things as a young man. I built my own engines in my own cars. I built my own roll cages in my race cars. I mean, I worked... I guess several patents, don't you? Yeah, I've got three patents on original inventions. But you see, when you know what thinking is and what it does and how to use it, you can find yourself getting glorified because you're rewarded for that. But you can also find yourself having a lack of empathy, compassion, and patience for your students or others that you... You know, I won't name names, but there's certain people in the health and exercise industry when I see what they're selling or what they're promoting or even what they're using. I'm like looking at this going, come on, are you that shallow? I'll give you an example with no names involved in this, but I'm going to talk about biohacking.   When I go into a deep meditative experience on mushrooms and I'm connecting with nature spirits and seeing auras and feeling things, I'm not just going, wow, I'm going, okay, this is cool, this is possible, psilocybin's just turned all these circuits on.   So that's why I do my tai chi and my meditation and that's why I come out of a medicine journey with journals of notes going, okay, this is what you experienced. You know this is real. Now go there in the sauna, whatever, practice it. Don't just, because of my point is that a lot of the whole biohacking thing is to try to compensate for imbalances that are created from not being conscious of the things that are the most fucking important for any person or relationship or profession or sport. So it's not a holistic approach at all. Right. We've been saying this since day one. It's just there's much bigger rocks to take care of before you start hacking into something or trying to take something. Yeah, like for example, I have all the athletes that I train and some of my patients various reasons monitor their morning heart rate every day and record it and after seven days take an average. And then I developed a scale of response that's a five-beat five-point system. So if your heart rate's five beats above average, do this. If it's three beats above average, this is what this means based on me. I developed this after studying heart mass research on heart rate variability. And this is like, you know, in 2002 or whenever their book first came up. You came up with this in 2002? Yeah. That's hilarious. You know why I mean this is like over the last three years. It's cutting-edge. Yeah, all right, sorry. Yeah, so what I did is I had athletes that I was coaching monitor this daily and keep track of it on a Microsoft Excel spreadsheet. And I know this for a fact because... You've seen some of this, yeah. And I've seen him. He's very diligent with his work and so I've seen the work. So how I developed the system that I taught Mike is by tracking all these guys and then I started looking at their Microsoft Excel spreadsheets and I started noticing that within three days if a person has an average heart beat that goes five beats above their average. So if your average morning heart rate, this is resting in bed before you move, was 55, and all of a sudden you wake one morning at 60, that when I analyze my own data almost every time within 72 hours that person got sick or got some kind of an injury.   So I saw that when monitoring average heart rate that when it went up five beats the body had hit a threshold at which it had to completely devote its energies to working on the inside to protect it from something or to get enough rest to recover so that it doesn't run the risk of blood sugar handling problems, restoration problems. And so treat that like preventative. Like, okay, I just measured my pulse. It's five above average. I need to rest. I need to meditate and sleep, drink lots of water.  So the point is when I teach athletes how to do that they're taking their own heartbeat. They're feeling their own heartbeat. They're listening to their own heartbeat. They're in connection with themselves. They're monitoring the data every day. They're correlating, wow, I'm one beat above.  I'm two beats. I still feel pretty good. I'm three beats. Wow, the warm up weight felt a little heavy. I'm four beats above. Wow, I'm questioning whether I should even be here. I'm five beats above. Fuck, the thought of going to the gym makes me tired. Paul's right. I need to go home or go jumping up jacuzzi somewhere. Here's the point.  You're not retaining it. You're not really learning it. You could get on learning anything.  And they can't read a normal clock because they've been looking at numbers for their whole life.  I forgot, right? So the biohacking thing is a trap if you do not use that technology to create the exact kind of awareness that I've just talked about. And if you look at Arthur Young's stages of how consciousness grows it begins at loss of freedom. So the soul in its unbound state is as expansive as space potentially. It's got no location. It's non-local. Coming into a body you have what's called the binding stage. So first is loss of freedom. Then when you're born, you begin to be bound and conditioned. Your parents tell you what to do. They inflict their ideas upon you. You're bound by your parents. So consciousness now, the genie is now trapped in the bottle and the parents paint themselves on it and the family.  That's in Steiner's model that takes 21 years but today there's people that live their whole life without ever really becoming an individual. In other words, they're still worried about if mom knows they masturbated or smoked pot. They haven't got any freedom from other people's ideas. Okay, so the next stage is called the choice stage. And the choice stage is all about realizing that there are no shortcuts to becoming a truly conscious human being. You have to do the work. There's no shortcuts to authentic knowledge and wisdom, right? Knowledge without experience is just a bunch of ideas and a lot of people have a lot of ideas in their head but they don't practice them or engage them. So you can't generate wisdom just from ideas. You have to put it into practice and that's where you go through the threshing ground of the hero's journey. That's where it happens right there. Faith without work is dead. If you don't put it into practice then you're not ever going to be a hero. I mean, how can you be a good martial artist just reading magazines and talking about it? You can't. You got to go get beat up a little. You can't learn how to race motocross just standing in a motocross shop and going, cool bike, man. You got to go get hurt and get wise.  I mean, almost every drug ever taken off the market was approved by scientists as safe, wasn't it? That's right. Okay.  Oh, it's scientifically this or scientifically that. You know, look at all the medical testing, mammograms, statin drugs.   But they fund it and they research it and they publish often bogus research for a paycheck. And I asked these people, okay, so you're all, you know, like it's like doctors that are pro vaccination. I'm like, doesn't it concern you at all that there's mercury in there? Doesn't it concern you all that there's aluminum in there? Doesn't it concern you that you're actually injecting a virus into somebody so there's 100% chance they're going to get it and they're going to get poisoned and the statistical likelihood of somebody getting that virus just walking around the street with a healthy immune system, eating real food, living for doctors is very low. And if you do get it, you'll build immune antibodies. I guess, yes, there are some dangerous things that can really mess you up. But how often do you know anybody that dies from something like that, right?  So people believe all this shit, but then you watch documentaries where these physicians own kids get autism and stuff from that and it turns them inside out. And for the first time, they started doubting authority and started doing research and realizing, oh my God, I've been sold a bill of lies the whole time and they're pissed.   Why didn't you simply say, why are we putting poison in here? Why do we want to poison someone to try to help them when there's other ways? We have high technology. We can develop all sorts of different chelating methods, binding methods, right? We don't have to wait till everyone's sick to go, hmm, maybe there's another way. Wait, you see what I'm saying? Absolutely. So there's the hard part. I'm a logical common sense dude.  I was eight and said something's wrong here. I don't care if you're an adult or not, you're confused. It doesn't make sense to me. I'm eight, right? Give me a break.   We're the sickest, most diseased people we've ever been. The earth has got more death on it, more animal species dying. Recent research shows that insect traffic, the sex organs of our planet has dropped 75% in the last 50 years. And the entomologists are saying, Armageddon may be here at any moment. We're going to collapse the sex organs of nature and hardly anything's going to grow and reproduce food.    You got it all backwards. You see, that's, there it is. I wanted to ask you something.  I mean, I'm being honestly rude. I'm sharing what's in my head. I'm not trying to cover it up. I'm not trying to be Mr. Spiritual Guy. I'm not trying to pretend to be somebody I'm not.  And it pisses me off because I'm not that smart. I've met lots of smart people. My wife's way smarter than me. I went to electronic school in the army with a guy named Brad Stockman who never studied and didn't have any more knowledge of electronics than I did coming in and could kick my ass on tests.  It's like it's not legal for you to be that smart. It came so easy for him.   This is hard work for me. It's stressful too to get high grades like that. It's against my natural nature to study all the heavy mathematical formulas, figure out circuit loads, capacitors.    Paul, I want to ask you something. And we before we got on or earlier, we were talking about a mutual friend that we have now, our buddy Kyle Kingsbury. And you're just talking about you love that guy and we equally love that guy. We consider him a friend of ours now. And I remember the first time that we all hung out together, you did a read on all of us. Yeah. And I love that. Oh, yeah. And so I just wanted to talk to you about, you know, because I respect your opinion on that. I think you do anything. You articulate it really well when you talk about what you see when you meet somebody. And since we've met you over two years now, you've been really kind of meeting a lot of people, more people in the fitness space. And I know you see a lot of the same things that we see. What are some of the people, what are some people that you really connect with and you feel and see the love like the Kyle that you explain and what are some examples of that? And what do you like? You know, I don't know the lady's name, but I just, I was on a panel last night with a girl who's a six-time Olympic skier, Olympic team skier, medal winner. No, no, no, that's not her. That's not her. It wasn't. She was an Olympic competitor. She's 53, real pretty girl, real fit. But you know, just listening to her and her sharing her story and her philosophy on exercise, I felt like I was with real feminine wisdom, real beautiful feminine wisdom who authentically cares about people and wants to help people not get caught in the traps that she did as a young athlete that didn't know any better. Just a lovely person. So there's an example. There's lots of my check professionals, you know, my senior instructor, who's sort of the chief of the instructors now in many ways is Matthew Walden. And he's unbelievably smart. Like this guy is, you want to meet a genius. This guy's got tremendous processing power and does stuff that blows my mind and takes my concepts and puts his own structure to it and his own meditation on it and it comes out the other side and even I go, oh, that's cool. I never thought of that. That's really good. And I have some of my instructors that are very put together, very loving, very beautiful people. Nicole Devaney, they're all amazing, right? So there's people in my own camp that give me tremendous soul medicine because it makes my life, the pain of my life meaningful. And like I told you guys, when I just stopped for station identification. And we're back everybody. Thanks for waiting. I painted that painting for you guys. That was so awesome. That was so awesome. Because I see you guys like a great big spotlight shining out into the world saying, let's have a look at this. So let's get to the bottom of this. And because that's, you're doing the same thing I'm doing. You're following your bliss. You're hard as your compass.    Right? You, something's picking you up and carrying you to work. And that's your soul. And that's what it means to live your dream. And that's the labor of love. And there's times when it's hard and there's times when it's frustrating. There's times when it's expensive. There's times when it's scary. There's times when it's sad. And there might even come times when you guys just don't get along so well. Just like the Beatles. And you'll have a choice. Blame the other guys.  Wish you'd never done that because now you lost your tribe. Or say time to grow up and see where we can get wiser together and learn to be empathetic and compassionate to what the want feeling or need is and be beautiful. So that, you know, when I, when I first worked with you guys I really got the feeling and could see in my inner vision this great star of light that each of you is holding a quarter of.  And remember no bee can make honey alone. Right? Indeed. And so for me, I feel like I'm sitting with people that are just as concerned and just as passionate and just as in love and just as afraid and just as blown away by the magic and the mystery and the awe of God and the sky at night and our beautiful children as a side note.  We got kids today that haven't got a clue what to do if the power goes out. They wouldn't know what a seed is from a poison is from a, they wouldn't know how to get themselves into the mountains. Most of them don't know how to swim, climb. I mean, we got people that are flight of stairs is pushing their heart rate to 220, right? Do you see, do you see what's happening right now with like a Spartan race and these, these events? I haven't watched much of that. So these things are exploding right now. Yeah, good. And, and that's what we say too, is that we think that or we speculate that a lot of that is because we need it so bad now that everything's so comfortable. Everything's so cushy and well, that's part of the member weeks. I think we did talk about the need for a rite of passage, right? It's in males and females. The females it's built in because when they start menstruating, there's no question. You know, and you're, you need to be very careful with your flower down there because if you get pregnant, it's going to cost you the rest of your life. I've actually read quite a bit about this. All cultures developed some type of a male rite of passage. It's just something that because the females have one naturally and the man, you know, whether it's hunt or whether it's whatever. They have ceremonies for the women too. In fact, I just find it really interesting that we're seeing, we're seeing humanity. And that's why I always, I have love, compassion, belief in humanity that we will, even as dark as and scary as it looks like we're going that sooner or later we kind of wake up as a collective, right? That's the function of pain. Right.  Pain is designed to trigger consciousness. Oh, yeah. Nothing makes you more aware of what's happening right now than pain. Yeah, no. Yeah. Pain brings you into the moment. And pain also is direct feedback on the choices you've made. You can't lie about the results, right?  There's the pain and there's the reality. There's no denying it. So I call that the pain teacher and the pain teacher is always there to give us course correction so that we stay on the dream line of the soul. And there's the pain of becoming that person, but that's always supported by the love of knowing that we're moving in the right direction because it's the pain we're willing to engage in, right? We've all been in athletic lives and gone to the gym and pushed ourselves when a lot of other people simply would have stayed home and watched television and said, I'm too tired, right? Well, the pain was being propelled by our love of becoming whatever it was we were creating and we were committed to it enough to work through the pain. But we also knew that there's a very finite point at which more of that pain stops us from accomplishing the journey. And some people take longer to learn that, don't they? And some people try to cheat the system. That's what I'm saying. A lot of biohacking is, is cheating the system. But you're seeing a lot now, statistically speaking, depression, anxiety, and suicide has actually gone up significantly among the youth. Yes. We have the highest rates of teenage suicide and childhood suicide, actually in every category in the history of man. It's in recorded history and it's kind of scary and yet we have more things easier to us and provided to us and, you know, some deep thinkers would say it's just we don't have, we're losing our sense of meaning. There's a sense of nihilism that seems to be spreading. Maybe the worship of science and the disregarding of, you know, the spiritual side of it. Or the, yeah, or the things that, like wisdom, ancient wisdom that isn't, that isn't, that doesn't fit within the western scientific method. Would you like a different perspective on that? Sure. Would you agree that energy and information are entangled realities? Yeah. You understand my point? I'll explain that a little bit. Energy, say that again. Okay, so if your body is getting too hot, that's because there's too much energy moving through it, right? Okay, yeah. If you put too much energy through an electrical circuit, it'll overheat. If it doesn't have a fuse, it'll catch whatever it is on fire. Simple as that. As your body gets hotter, isn't there information attached to that that's very important for you to pay attention to? Yeah. That's why they have a thermometer they stick in your mouth, right? And we all have a sense inside of ourselves. I've had heat exhaustion. So I knew that I was getting some very dangerous information when I started blacking out. I was in a triathlon and I was fading in and out, riding my bike as hard as I could go. And there was periods like, I don't know how many seconds long where I actually didn't even know I was on a bicycle. And I'm like, okay, the heat is a bit high here. And I want to win, but I don't know if I want to die today, you know? So the point is information directs energy. God is pure unadulterated energy. Consciousness directs energy. Got it? So if you're swinging a bat at a baseball and it's coming at you going 75 to 90 miles an hour, you have to read the ball and get the information. Is it spinning? Is it curving? There's always information attached to energy.  This impulse at this frequency becomes decoded to be a recording somebody listens to, right? The energy and the information are two sides of the coin. So because what we are at the physical level, we are made of mineral substance and cellular substance or organic matter, carbon, right? Your cells, you've got a hundred trillion cells, about over half of them are actually microorganisms and viruses and bacteria and fungi. But those organisms all developed in the milu of the Earth's environment, correct? Sure. Okay. So out in nature, if the temperature of the water rises too hot, cells have to figure out a way to cool themselves down. If it gets too cold, they've got to figure out how to survive. If a toxin comes into the area, be it injected by an animal that wants to kill them or eat them, they have to figure out how to defend themselves against it. So would you agree that information directs the flow of energy in the cell because it is something that has to read that which is consciousness, okay? So every cell depends on gathering the information it needs for its own survival from the environment and it depends on the environment for the very sources of its cells. Food, water, air, right? Okay, good. So how long has it been since you would be out hunting for an animal to eat and you would eat a living animal whose water would be impermeated with the entire electromagnetic spectrum of idea or information that contained that animal that made that animal? You understand what I'm saying? The idea of the animal. If you eat any organ pretty much, you've got peristalsis is woven into the software, isn't it?  It has to pump.  That's the information that's in the lizard's tail and it has to eat the information that supports the structure of the lizard that allows its tail to wiggle. Simple enough, okay? Now what happens if you start feeding that lizard enough white sugar? At what point do you pull its tail off and it barely wiggles anymore and it can barely even get away from you? Because it's not got the information. See, the sugar is energy, but it carries the wrong information.   It's poisoned with all sorts of vaccinations and steroids to make it egg like a motherfucker, even though it's hurting it, it's in pain.  So you've actually downloaded that chicken's entire existence into you and what it doesn't have is information about flight. What it doesn't have is information about eating insects. What it doesn't have is the nutrition from the insects. It doesn't have the athletic conditioning to make its proteins healthy. It doesn't have a capacity to detoxify itself. So all the information that you need that guides and directs your biological systems at every level from mineral all the way to the conscious.  You could only break an antenna down before it won't attract the frequency, right? Take any antenna on the roof of your house. How many times you got to whack a piece of it off but all of a sudden there's nothing on your television because the structure of the antenna has everything to do with the frequency of the wave it tunes into. So does your cells. So does your structure. That's what yoga is.  So glad I gave you another hit. Oh my God. So glad I gave you another hit. That was the most amazing rant I've ever heard. But this is my point. Do you understand what I'm saying here? We have a problem because most of, remember, only 6% of the food eaten worldwide is organic.  I won't even get started on how big a trouble we're in, but there's not, it's hard to find a single body of water in the world anywhere even down in deep holes in the ground that's not poisoned by industrial chemicals and nuclear waste. Okay. We've got almost no, by the year 1961 we had destroyed 60, see what is it like something like 61% of the farmable land in the United States, the average farming family destroys 7,000 acres of land in the life of that family of farmers completely destroys it and turns it into a desert.   So when you look at how much pesticides, herbicides, fungicides, redenticides and chemical fertilizers and you see current research saying there's, we have no more insects guy.   And look how cheap the food is. Soilent green, everybody. Oh God. I saw that. You know, like I'm doing research for how to eat moving be healthy and like, you know, 2002. And I'm looking through food, trade food journals, right? And in there I turned an award for Lord Sainsbury of London. He set the record. He sold $13 billion of synthetic food in England and Europe. And he's getting an award from the food industry.    I hate to tell you, I can tell you we don't even have time to get into the science of that. But it ain't just like a synthetic hormone.  I think the part of the problem is that you can get away with some of the stuff for a very short period of time. So people think, oh, it's fine, you know. My kids can eat this food over here. They don't need to move that much. They can be on their iPhones all day long. They don't need to develop the relationships or whatever. And it seems okay because in the short period of a day, a week, a couple months, it doesn't seem like everything's okay. And then it starts to become the norm, but you don't see what's happening generationally. And I think that's why it takes us so long to learn our lesson. Well, here's the thing though. If you need, let me give you an example. If you're not getting enough protein to meet your metabolic and hormonal needs to keep your body capable of maintaining the three critical or primary hormones you have to have or you'll die, which is adrenaline, insulin, and cortisol, if you're say, say you say, oh, I'm going to become a vegan today, like a lot of people do. Or you become a Rastafarian or a Seventh-day Adventist or a Buddhist to fix or a Steiner follower, whatever. But you're Sal, you're Adam, and you're Justin, right? You're the other guy. But I say it wrong. No, you didn't know. I call myself the other guy. I'm Justin. I don't have a name tag. I don't have a name tag. The other guy on the list. Oh, yeah. Oh, right, yeah. Yeah, yeah, sorry.  How do I know I did it?  I had to test the theory.  My mother made me a vegetarian. When I was 13, it made me sick in six months. I got anemic, the naturopathic physician said, feed him meat. That's all that's wrong with him. So I tried again. I really wanted to see and my soul guided me to it. My soul said, and I did a lot of deep spiritual practices and it helped me a lot with connecting to, shall we say, higher mind or a soul or getting still or it was kind of like a really comprehensive detox. But I lost 26 pounds of muscle. And I got to the point where no matter how I train, I could not put muscle mass on and I know how to train. I'm a skilled athlete and a skilled conditioning coach. And I was starving for protein. So the point that I'm making here, you can be eating all the food you want and all that fancy stuff, but it only gets to the point where what you're eating, no matter how good it tastes or what the cost of it is or isn't. If you're not getting the resources you need, for example, if you're not getting enough protein, your body will go into gluconeogenesis and you will start eating yourself. This is why I tell the vegetarians, look, you're all about not being mean to animals, but what about being abusive to yourself? Your body needs the same level of love or more that you give your dog and that cow over there.  If you just flip the tables and said, well, let's do it backwards. If you starve the cow of grass and only feed it meat, how long is it before your cow is sick and won't make any milk anymore?   So do you see the point I'm making is that the further we go down this road, the more disconnected we get from the information that informs the unconscious biological processes that create and sustain the body that the person we think we are lives in and that our soul uses as a vehicle of live simulation of a thing called life which is a simulation in the absolute. It is the relative experience of now and the soul is living in your body as the consciousness that's aware that it's having this experience. So he's a fan of science. Well, you know, it's not against science. I'm just against the abusive science. Yes, because this is a classic human behavior. We take something that is powerful and we don't realize that power also means responsibility and it doesn't matter. The first time we use fire, I guarantee we burn the shed.  We do this with any nuclear power. Look at science. Science is an incredibly valuable tool to test nature to set, you know, hypothesis to test and to find out how things work to learn things in depth. But it's it's a powerful tool and it can be abused like anything. And I feel like right now we are in the midst of a worship or a worshiping technology. We're worshiping science, scientism. Yes. And nobody's asking if we should. People only asking, can we? Well, here's the problem. A moral is a code of conduct that is designed to protect life. And ethic is just a code of conduct. When I was a paratrooper, I had a soldier's manual, which was my ethics manual that said, if this guy's wearing this uniform or a tank or an aircraft that looks like this, kill it. If it looks like this, do not kill. Right? This is how you kill. This is how you don't kill. This is what is legal in a battlefield. This is what is illegal, right? You can't torture people, whatever. So right now we've got a situation where science has detached itself from the issues of morality. For example, they make microwave ovens and even know now in almost every hospital anywhere, it says right on microwave ovens, hospitals do danger. Do not microwave milk for babies. Why? Because it kills them. Okay, so wait a minute.  One is just brand new and the other the same enzyme systems like it's just a fragile body.  So my point is that without going in a long dissertation, if you look at the research and the studies done on what microwave ovens does to food, it causes a huge white cell population increase, which is an immune reaction and your body does not recognize it as food. It recognizes it as an offender. It is not information compatible with your body once a microwave has oscillated the polarity six billion times a second. And just look what it does to an egg.  It's not even like an egg anymore. And most foods are weird. I'm like, don't you pay attention to this. It almost seems so obvious when you look at it like that. Well, it is kind of obvious. That's what I'm saying. When people get too detached from paying attention to what's essential to survive, they're now too far above nature. Our problem is that our consciousness has risen into mind without realizing that mind can only be enjoyed when you embody it. And that's the definition of mind by Dan Siegel. Mind is an embodied and relational process that regulates the flow of energy and information. Mind is an embodied and relational process that regulates the flow of energy and information. But if you take the embodied out of it, what do you got? Make signal. What you got is zero, giving you all possibilities until you figure out how to make another body again. And since you can't remember how you did it the first time, you have a 50-50 chance of your next one. It's like, I don't know how I got here, but I hope I can get back. All right, I don't know how I got here, but I'd like to figure out how to get out of here. There's two ways to do it. One way, you may not have to ever come back, because you're conscious enough to choose from the vast expanse of all possibilities. But if you're unconscious, and you think God's going to burn you in hell, you're probably going to have to live in your mind until you figure it out.  But yet, and they have a lot of other things that they need to really fix in their life.  They're sleep is terrible. Yeah, they're sleep is terrible, all these other things. And they're also microwaving the food. How do you teach somebody at that point in their lives like, what are the big rocks that they address before they start freaking out about that? Well, you ready for this? Yeah. How'd this conversation start out today? Talking to Paul about how do you feel about all this social media? And what do you got to do to do it? And boy, you're sure blown up. And what's it costing you time wise?  And now you're talking to me about someone saying, I'm having a hard time not using my microwave.  The whole point is it's supposed to cook your food faster so you can get more done in a day or spend less time cooking. And I'm saying faster is not always smarter.  So have you ever wondered?  Look at guys like me and people that are trying to get a message out. Have you noticed that the attention span is getting shorter and shorter and shorter? Okay, so I have a question. Where's that arrow flying to? When's it going to stop? Well, what are we going to get to? I can only handle a three second discussion. You see the point I'm making. Where is it? Do you hit the bottom? And remember, as you get less and less time, if you watch frames per second, people have to start doing very flashy editing to pump your head with a message that comes in so fast. You don't even know what you got hit with.    And then you ask about all the hours being spent on video games.     I think this guy is guilty.  Do you see any of the positives like with this long form communication with podcasts and with people now having access to information they may never have heard of? Like they wouldn't have heard of you sometimes without somebody voicing your message and on this platform. Yeah, but that's a good question. So I would say what's the difference in your mind between somebody that can't stand watching something that's less than a few minutes long and someone that'll listen to an hour and a half of us talking? The big difference. You're different bandwidth. You're talking about a commercially raised chicken versus somebody who's really interested in learning how to live better. That's the difference. So you could say we're on the green. The hearts are already on the growth path. We're on the integration path. Right. Everything you guys are talking, everything I've ever heard you talk about has something to do with integrating or enhancing your life in some way and looking at the spiritual, looking at the physical, or I wouldn't even be sitting here.  And worse, who would buy that? Here's this drug. People for them to spend money on a commercial. Here's this, exactly, which is a lot of money. Here's a pill to get rid of your acne. But if you have two eyes, a heart, or lungs, it could cause suicidal thinking.  If you have a vagina, it'll probably end up being a rat's nest.  I still haven't read those ones, but I believe that. As simple as pimples or people saying, oh, if your cortisol is high, take this drug and it'll lower your cortisol for you.  Why do you think the cortisol is high? There's a reason it's high. That's like saying, oh, the temperature is running too high on my car.  No, I, you know, with my kids and technology, because I see technology is extremely powerful. It's a wonderful, powerful tool, but like all things powerful, it can do amazing good things, and it could do incredibly terrible things. And just like, look, you know, I've called technology today's, you know, it's like processed food from when we were kids. Like today, people are more aware of heavily processed food, not as aware as it could be, but more than when I was a kid. Today, technology is like processed food was when I was a kid. We, parents are just, they don't realize it. They let their kids stay on the iPad all day long.  And my kids, my kids, I, you know, I am very structured with it. And this is what it's for. This is what you use it for. And this is how much time you have. And I've noticed tremendous benefits to their personality, their connection. Mine too. I got a two year old. He's, look, the guy's an iPad wizard too. He does it with his feet to show off for daddy and mommy. And, but the thing is, there's nothing on that iPad that I wouldn't want them to see. And so you know what the common denominator is in this conversation right now? Parents with enough awareness to know how to use the technology because a surgeon's scalpel can save your life or it can end your life. And it all depends on the wisdom of the person holding it. And an iPad can save your life or end your life. So can your phone. That's right. Right. That's absolutely right. Absolutely right.  And remember the word television means tell a vision. And we do it through light. So you can't defend yourself on it. And we program you with it.  Why did I marry somebody that I wasn't even attracted to?  Oh my God. That's awesome. That's awesome. And so now you know what the word make believe really means. Make you believe.  Oh my God. So one, one more question. This, I can, I can talk to you forever. I swear to God. One more. Let's keep this guy off. Last time we talked with you, we talked about business and you said that's the harder part of what you do is the business side of it. And at the time, you know, it seemed like you were looking for new ways to try to grow your business. And now you're all over the place, has your business. I'm sure your business is definitely reap some of the benefits of this. That guy right there is one of the main reasons because he, Mike Salemi out of the goodness and love of his heart felt some love for Papa Paul and said, okay, I can see the Institute struggling. It's not getting enough students in. You know, it's an expensive organization to run. And I've been talking to Mike and talking to him about various things. And so he says, we were, my wife and him and I were talking, we need a really skilled video guy that can make it look exciting because people think my stuff's old and outdated and they think I'm old and outdated. They think I'm dead actually. No, he's a hundred percent alive. And so Mike introduced me to Eli and then we, my wife and I, we changed our arrangement with our European and UK distributor who's beautiful, his wife, Gabby and him, Gavin. They are used, Gavin used to be one of my students, but he's got a background in sales and marketing. He's very good at it. And he built up the European branch to be as big as the US branch from nothing. Excellent. And so Penny and I both being tired and needing some fresh eyes on the project. And you know, sometimes you can't edit your own article, right? Oh yeah. And I like, I don't like to do all the too much of this phone stuff. And so I need some Eli's in there to make it easy for me. And so Gavin took over the direction of the business and the marketing and the strategy. Gabby took over the accounting and we got Eli involved with Gavin and me together collaborating on how to make things.  Gavin wants and James wants and Penny wants for this project. And then he makes it all very beautiful. Gavin has the science of getting it to people at the right time and in the right way. And then people like Aubrey Marcus, Kyle Kingsbury, you Ben Greenfield have all realized that what I'm doing is interesting enough to talk about and share. And that causes the volume to go up and the awareness to go up.  Of course. But I could not pick myself up to go do that again.  So I needed that downtime. And I went through a very significant midlife crisis at 50 because I knew I could not be authentic on stage anymore. I was too tired. And so I had to stop doing what was keeping the institute growing and thriving to survive. And my wife, even though she's tougher than me, needed to slow down too. So it took me a few years. And in the time I was recovering and healing and working through my own crisis about my own future and how I wanted to handle it. Do I want to sell the institute? Did I want to start a pot farm? Something a little less stressful? Whatever. That was awesome. You know, but it's not an impossibility. Yeah, not these days. So anyhow, it took me a few years to work through all this. But in the last couple of years, and then Eli came on and supported us. And we started teaming so that Gavin's engineering of the marketing and the management of all that and the use of Eli's creative genius to make, to put the right contents together in a way that's appealing and sexy and attractive. That's what seems to have got the institute breathing again.  And it gets tiring to have to be that rabbit.  And it hurts after a while. It's like, well, I'm really in trouble now because it takes me as many hours of Tai Chi in meditation to figure out how to solve my problem as it does to deal with it in the real world of working on it, right? So if it goes any further, I'm going to have to meditate so much the business will disappear. Isn't that the struggle that everybody's having every day, right? That's the tipping point. So that's Arthur Young's choice point. Remember I told you, loss of freedom, binding, centering, choice, unbinding, de-centering, total freedom. Well, only about 2% of the world population get to the de-centering or the integral stage because to be truly integral, you have to de-center yourself. I got to be willing to take your opinion and look at it as honestly as I would look at my own. See what I'm saying? Mm-hmm. I have to de-center. If your ego, your egos, you could call it your eye, your eye, not just the ego, but the eye. You know what I mean? The self. That's the center of your sense of yourself. So if you're too anchored in your eye, such as somebody in the traditional level of psychological development, which is all your orthodox religious concepts, right? They're sure they're right. If you don't take Jesus as your savior, we have to exterminate you. But in the next breath, God is everything. You see that? So the processing power is not very high yet. So we have to actually de-center our ego and expand it out to include your opinion and be brave enough to ask, am I willing to be wrong? Am I brave enough to be wrong? And say, okay, Sal was right. You know, it is safer his way or it is better his way. But if the ego is too in need of trying to establish control often to prove to somebody else that it's smarter, which is another need for love and approval, do you see how it won't de-center itself to actually take your opinion?  Without realizing he's repressing his own sexual reality, right? You know, so it's... Well, anger, hate, all that stuff is always a reflection of yourself, right? Yeah. Always. Well, I mean, I'm just, I'm happy to see that your business is growing. I'm happy to see that the message that you have been sharing for so long now is, you know, it's getting cool, which is good, which is good because more and more people are going to seek it out. I've had more trainers, you know, two years ago, if somebody, you know, if I mentioned your certification to a lot of people and they weren't in the know, they'd be like, well, I've never heard of that. I'm going to go get an ASM. I'm going to... Now people are asking me quite a bit now. An ASM who consulted me to build it. You know, and now people are asking about your courses and it's the most, I think, complete comprehensive course I've seen if you're trying to be a really good trainer or really good coach or really good wellness, you know, expert. It's beyond a trainer.  It's an holistic health practice. Yes. Yes. You know, but when I use the term, I use the term in the way we like to try to use the term, which is exercise perfection. Not just that, but you're working with everything. You're working with total health, total wellness. Which we've been trying to separate with the industry has been trying to separate for on us and everybody. I put everybody in these little boxes for... To master exercise, you have to master the concept of understanding how stress works, don't you? A hundred percent. The science of exercise is the scientific application of different types of stress. A hundred percent. So if you don't know what else plays into the total equation called stress in the body, how do you ever know how much is a therapeutic dose of exercise for any problem? You don't. You're guessing. And that's why the whole no pain, no gain concept is a sign of really a lack of intelligence. Right.  And in those skeletons and those emotional pains change day to day, almost hour to hour. You're in the middle of a workout.  Well, you try to finish that workout. You might blow L5S1 out or rip your rotator cuff or something because you now are in a state of shock and all your energy is being directed completely elsewhere, not into where it should be. And the list is very long. So you asked me what did I do to learn such a breadth of information? I committed myself to studying everything I could possibly learn that I had to calculate into the factor of how to make the right decisions with diet, sleep, exercise, and effective... And you ended up learning everything because you have to because it's all... Well, it all contributes. That's my point. Yeah, you have to really look at stars to soil, light to matter. I mean, emotion, way of thinking, everything. Yeah, you got to study the psyche. You got to study all aspects of the psyche and the physical because we are a psychophysical being. Right? The psyche is the bridge between the invisible and the visible. Yeah, the more you learn, the more you realize that there's a lot more you don't know. And the deeper you go, the more you realize that. So this goes back to where I kind of got lost in one of our conversations in the beginning, which is I was about to say, you were asking me about the breadth and I was saying there's two paths to enlightenment. One is called the negativa. The other is called the positiva. So people like Chiang Tzu, Lao Tzu, they took the path of the negativa. The negativa is to minimize what goes into your head, to keep only in your mind what's absolutely necessary to do the things that are necessary for you to carry out your process and your practice. In other words, don't watch TV. You don't need to watch. Don't chase after money you don't need so that you can be present with what really is. And that leads to the masters going into caves and eating only enough to stay alive and spending their time in deep meditative practices and chanting and doing the things like you see the Buddhist monks do, the Dalai Lama and focusing on what's really there. Why? Because their souls have evolved to the level where they're ready to complete their journey and become one with what they really are. So that's the path, not the Buddhist. The Buddhist is different. But like I say, someone like Chiang Tzu, some of the yogis, in other words, they minimize mental activity to the point that there's nothing going through their head getting in their way of their awareness going to everything that is. Does that make sense? Yep. Okay. In other words, if you're too busy in the dance, you can never really know what it's like to be the dance floor, can you? Right. Right. So they go for the dance floor. The path of the positiva is to gain enough legitimate awareness or knowledge of the key things that make life and the universe work so that you think of it as a puzzle board. Right? If you called God a puzzle, let's call it a circular puzzle because God would be a circle.  Can you visualize that? Everywhere and nowhere at the same time. Yeah. The advance of view. Yeah. Okay. So you visualize this circle, but it starts off completely empty because remember we don't know what God is yet. We don't really know what we are.  Where do planets come from? Where planets come from stars. Okay. So we can actually look into what's in our sun and compare it with the mineral elements and the metallic elements in the earth. And we find out, wow, some of them came from the sun but some of them come from somewhere else. So then we say, okay, well, these came from that star or we look in the sun and say, where did those elements come from? Well, the point is that if you do that and I've done this, I've studied this, what you find out is the astronomers and the physicists come to this conclusion. Every star is made of every other star and every planet is made of every other planet and everything in the universe is made out of every other part of the universe. Just like a flower looks like a flower but it's actually made of earth, water, warmth, air, soil, but it takes the shape of a flower and you don't even think of it as the air or the water but it couldn't be there without the water and that water's constantly coming and going. So you see there's the dance again, right? So the path of the positiva is you keep studying and asking what causes that to happen or allows that to happen and then you say, well, to really understand that flower, I've got to study, understand water. What does water really do? Then you find out that water has an almost infinite capacity for information just like light. It carries the frequencies in our body that we feel predominantly as a motion and you realize that without water, there's no neurological connection in the body. Your fashion wouldn't work. I mean, water is cool. How did it get here? And why is it only here? Fuck, it's not very many planets. You don't just find water floating around everywhere.  So there's magic just in the fact that it's here and you say, okay, well, how does that happen? And you see what's happening. So then you say, well, why is our sun... The deepest rabbit hole of all time. Yeah, why is our sun at exactly the right temperature not to overheat or freeze the planet? And what's the chances of that?  It's like, okay, someone thought that out. I mean, that's like beyond thinking that's more zeros and you can add up in your whole lifetime.  And you know, the watch can never figure out its maker. Isn't that a fact? Yeah. We're the watch. But as St. Francis of Assisi said to people who asked him, what is God? He would say, what you are looking for is what's looking. Yes, indeed. And that's what God is. Excellent. So now that you've met God and you realize what it takes to keep God looking at God, which is the function of love, we realize that we can only do with so many microwave ovens and so many iPhones before we end up being behind the lens looking for another body, but going, okay, where do we go now?  We need another home. I believe the message is getting out there. I know we see things increasing and getting worse, but when I see things like these Spartan races and stuff happening, I feel that that's human searching. Yeah. They don't know for sure yet what they're searching for. They just know it makes them feel a certain way that they know is important. It brings you back in touch with nature, doesn't it? Right. It gets your feet back on the earth. And let me ask you a question. If Mother Earth is the mother of the children of the earth, which is us, and she knows that there are some real changes in the environment coming towards us, if she was going to send a message to her children as to what to train for and what to get ready for and where to go to practice, how much different would that be than training and doing Spartan races? You get it? Right. So the unconscious, the unconscious, not necessarily an apocalypse, but a changing environment, like rising tides, like massive storms, like potentially tidal waves, like earthquakes. Like swinging the pendulum back the other way. Like an early onset of a greenhouse effect that Donald Trump says we're not doing as he drills more coal and oil and acts like a complete, lovely, confused Christian and a few other things. That was way too nice. You know, don't get me wrong. I love all religions, because all religions are systems designed to protect you from the direct experience of God. That's exactly what Jung taught, and it's true. Religions are fields of resistance that force the mind to get programmed so that it actually has to build the strength of awareness and learn how to meet the resistance of developing the mind so that it can come to the point where it can actually comprehend itself. For example, what would it be like if you took the average 12-year-old and gave them two or three hits of clinical grade LSD or a hit of DMT? Sure. It would completely fry their mind. It'd be terrible. Yeah. They wouldn't, there's not enough integrity of their neural network and their sense of self to be able to maintain the thrust of that much water. Imagine if Laird Hamilton got hit by a 150-foot wave, he would have a better chance than all of us are surviving because he has a neural network that's used to that much force and power and has an understanding of the process that's about to happen. So if the LSD is as strong as that wave and you give it to someone who doesn't have the strength of self-development to realize that they're on a journey that they'll be okay, that it's a drug, that it's a process, that it'll come to an end and just relax and let the wave carry you, do you see they could go literally into a state of complete psychopathy, complete literal meltdown. Which is probably why some people have horrible experiences with some of these things. That's why a lot of people become schizophrenic when they do too high a doses because it breaks their ego structure down to the point they can't tell what was real, the experience they're still trapped in or the one that they're trying to get to. So it's like as though if the mind was a mirror, it's like if that television was a mirror and you threw a stone at it, that would be the impact of the LSD.  This, I've had to help many people who did silly things with psychedelics and went to the jungle trying to follow the big fad of doing ayahuasca and really got way too deep for their own good. And it can take people years or a lifetime to recover even with skilled help. Wow. So I think it's an interesting state we're in but Carl Jung said no being is truly alive until it has the power to kill itself. And I think that we're going through a quickening. We're coming to the point where we have to make careful decisions about how we use technology, especially military technology because we now have a level of destructive power that far outruns our spiritual intelligence and our moral principles.  That's why I said a moral is a code of conduct designed to protect life. But science prides itself in not getting caught up in morality. It makes microwave ovens and says it's up to you moralists to figure out how to use them. That's right. But we will happily sell you as many as we can. It's objective by nature. It has to be. That's what makes science such a powerful tool. It doesn't have the morals. I can't. Yeah. Well, it can. But... Well, the person applying it, understanding it. Yes. In other words, you can't have a moral that says I shouldn't. See if I can make a microwave oven or you're not a scientist.  If I can, I must.  I have to test this thing. What do you got? Because that's a science. See, to do the end product, you have to test your product. You can't make something without testing it. That's the experiments not done. But you see, there's a point at which completing the scientific process and morality have to intersect just like the vertical and the horizontal beam of the cross. I mean that. You get it? We're at the... We're at it definitely at a crossroads. That's what I think. We are. Well, as always, Paul. Awesome. Always awesome talking to you. Thank you. And you know the thing is, I will close by saying, look, we are at a crossroads. And it's a unique time because we have enough food. We can get good enough food. Like you guys, all of us here can get good food. We got the best entertainment we ever had. We've got probably more diverse opportunities to fully experience life, love and technology.  I mean, look at the gadgets. Like, look what you can learn watching a good documentary or even... Like I watch what my little boy learns on his iPad.  That there's real live information that he needs. It's just, I'm glad I don't have to sit there and tell him all that because I'll take him further than that because that's doing it for me. He's getting kind of elementary training. But we are really at a point right now where we've got to be careful not to get trapped in the numbness and the passivity of being high on all the magic because what's holding the magic together is the simple stuff, like farming correctly, keeping the waterways clean, keeping the skies clean, protecting the fabric of nature, not exterminating species, not poisoning the oceans with oil spills that are unnecessary.  We haven't need oil since Tesla and it's just all about a money-making thing. So there's the ethics that goes against the morals. So we now are at a point in the development of humanity where we have to tie science and religion together again so that the heart and the head are holding hands or the head is going to destroy the heart and the planet and we're going to go into a shamanic journey that results in an overdose and only God will know what happens next. And for those of us like me that have truly lived, that's okay. I have no problem dying. In fact, I'm excited because I have theories I have to check out. Okay, that's what's next for me. But when I look at my two-year-old boy, I don't want him to have to live through the death of silliness to miss out on what we got to experience. So I think all of us right in this room are old enough to know that what we're doing right now is more for the children than anybody because they're the least equipped to deal with what is very likely to come from many angles right now. It could be a stock market crash. We could have a solar flare from the sun we're overdue for a solar flare that said it's probably going to knock out all the electronic systems on the globe. How many days can we go without food before it's riot time? Everything in this planet is controlled by electricity. I mean, people won't know where to go. They won't know how to communicate. You knock out water pumps and filtration systems.  People don't even think about that, right? So we've got a chance to really take worship every day as magical and say what can I do to make the garden a little safer place and what can I do to help people get back to the basics we got to get back to to keep the world healthy to keep the temperature from going up faster than it has to go up to keep the toxins down and to stop putting poison in kids and calling it food and have nutritionists and doctors lying to us about nutrition and we got to get past making money to telling the truth or we're going to die. That's it. That's a beautiful way to end this. Thanks again, Paul. Yeah, thanks. Thank you. Love you guys. Thank you for listening to Mind Pump. If your goal is to build and shape your body, dramatically improve your health and energy, and maximize your overall performance, check out our discounted RGB Superbundle at minepumpmedia.com. The RGB Superbundle includes MAPS Anabolic, MAPS Performance, and MAPS Aesthetic. Nine months of phased expert exercise programming designed by Sal, Adam, and Justin to systematically transform the way your body looks, feels, and performs. With detailed workout blueprints and over 200 videos, the RGB Superbundle is like having Sal, Adam, and Justin as your own personal trainers but at a fraction of the price. The RGB Superbundle has a full 30-day money-back guarantee and you can get it now plus other valuable free resources at minepumpmedia.com. 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