I'm not sure why it's not funny. It should be. Oh, this is bad. Are you out? Yeah, yes. The audience here, can I take it out?  So welcome, everybody, here to the Martin E. Siegel Theater Center. My name is Frank Henschker, and I'm the director here at the Graduate Center CUNY, which is a great institution, bridging academia and professional, international, and global theater is what we do here at the Graduate Center. And one of the great pleasures we have is really we work with artists, artists come, show their work, and we do present theater traditions, traditional theater, whether it's catechali from India, cormedia dell'arte from Italy, or a puppet theater, which we think very highly of. And just to show to you, we published actually a book. We have here Professor Marvin Carlson with us, Marvin. So say hi to us. And Nazli Mirag-Ümüt, they together did, as far as we know, maybe the first publication ever in the history of theater dedicated to a very significant form of theater that has its followers all around the world over centuries. It's a very significant, great tradition. I think it also involves families, children. It's done easily, as you see, from the setup. And it works basically with what the movies work with light and color and some sound. So today, we have two great companies with us, companies that, hi there, these are companies that continue an important tradition. Somehow one could say also brought it here as immigrants in a way. And though we have Chinese as theater works with us here based in New York and the U.S. Carragas Theater Company from Washington. So we're going to start with the Chinese theater work. So say hello first. You're going to be the setup here. We're going to explain a little bit. And Ihan is, he is still there hiding behind already. Yeah, he is from the Carragas Theater. So and so this will be, I think, an important work to keep up a tradition. We also would like to say hi to our viewers from around. This has been live streamed on this truly great non-profit theater platform. So welcome and thanks you for having us. So we are going to start now. There will be like 20, 25 minute segments. First the Chinese theater work, then the Carragas theaters. We have a demonstration of the puppets. And then we're going to talk a little bit but also about the book and why it is important to pay attention to these truly significant art form that often is for wrong reasons overlooked or remains a little bit offside from the centerline on the stages of the world. So thank you so much. And Garrett, here we go. Hello. Before we start our show, we want to give you a very, very short introduction so we can be part of our show. And in Chinese folk tale, animal can turn into people. But people can turn into animal. Maybe they could. But how can you tell is a real people or animal spirit is very, very easy. If you ever see a person on their head as an animal, that's the animal spirit. So that's part of show you're going to see. And also we believe in, we Chinese believe there's an animal who lives in the moon. So any Chinese here can tell us, yes, an animal. Chang'e, yeah. Chang'e is a lady who lives in the moon too. When Armstrong went to the moon and Chang'e is not there, that entire Chinese people got so sad. They said, oh, Chang'e is not there. But Chinese still believe there's kind of animal who lives in the moon. Rabbit, yes. And the rabbit has a name called Yu Tu. So you are going to see. Are we going to have Yu Tu today? Yes, we have a Yu Tu. And also very, very important, we need you to be part of our show. Whenever you hear a character said, what's the matter? And we need you to say to respond, the tiger's in my kitchen and he won't get out. OK, with rhythm. So let's practice. What's the matter? OK. I thought I said that. Yeah, you said it. What's the matter? The tiger's in my kitchen and he won't get out. Very good. Since you speak so well and we add something in your role, we need you to cry. What? To cry? Yes.  Let's cry three times. Me. Very good.    What? Uh-oh. We never heard rabbit cry, right? Because a rabbit is such a happy animal. So we make it as cry as a baby. I'm sure you can cry like a baby. Let's cry loud. What? What? Excellent. Excellent. So today we're going to show you the tiger's tells. There's a story that we wrote and from the famous Chinese saying. So after the show, please tell me, if you're Chinese, tell me which Chinese idioms like a saying that we were inspired. And now let's introduce our puppeteers. Jing Shan from Beijing. He is a wonderful Beijing opera performer. We turned him into puppeteer. And we have Charlie Sanders from Queens. And Stephen Kaplan, who is our co-artistic director. And we wrote this play together. And we also married for 28 years. Yeah, thank you. Yes. So are you ready? OK, we're going to turn down the light. Oh, we have more people to come. Please come in. Yes, that's good. Please take a seat. Yeah, please sit in the front. So when we take a picture, it looks more audience. Yeah. Yeah, have a seat. Yes, yes, excellent. Yeah, you can sit close. So are you ready? I'm ready. OK. Higer tells Lao Hu the Bush. Honey, where? Here I am, grandma.  Where are you going, child? I'm looking for adventure. Oh, that's a good thing to look for. When I was your age, I had lots of adventures. Oh, really? Oh, tell me some of your adventure stories, grandma. Please, please, please, please, please. OK, sit down there beneath the bamboo. That's good. Now let me see. When I was young, I was the Tiger's Prime Minister. The Tiger's Prime Minister?  How do you get the job? Oh, that's a very, very interesting story. You see, since he was the meanest, most nasty carnivore around, he naturally became king of the jungle. But he found that life at the top of the food chain wasn't as easy as it seemed.  I think Bob Dylan said that. No, no, it was Taylor Swift, whoever. But anyway, one day, after a hard morning of chasing down and eating cute little fuzzy animals, the Tiger was in his lair trying to take a nap. He couldn't get to sleep. He was itching, and twitching, and scratching, and finally he rolled over and he said, oh, it's so hard being king of the jungle. Too many decisions to make. Who gets to hunt in the morning? Who gets to hunt at night? Who gets to hunt who?  No, I want to be diurnal. Nobody wants to be crop plus killer anymore. I can't take it. I need someone who can help me organize this jungle. Someone to do all the thinking for me and take none of the credit. I need a, I need a stage manager. Oh, no, no, no, they're a union drop-on.  A prime minister. Yeah, there are a dime a dozen. I'll go get one. So the Tiger ran off into the forest and he went to the clearing where they posted all their messages. He had to write it out by hand, though, because animals didn't have email back then or Twitter. Well, the birds had Twitter, but nobody else. And the sign said, prime minister wanted. Do you have the guts for the job? See, Tiger. Well, all the animals came out of the forest and read the sign. The elephant was there. Ooh, and the monkey was too. He, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he.  We all read the sign, but not one of us wanted to apply for this job. But before we could sneak away, let's get out there. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, let's get out here. Whoa. Oh, so you're all interested in applying for this position? Well, let me tell you, it's a very demanding job. I'm going to have to interview you one at a time. Elephant, you're first. Step into my office. Ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, OK, ooh. Oh, poor elephant. He was so honest, always told the truth, even if it got him in trouble. Now listen, elephant, my prime minister must be very careful with words. I'm going to ask you a question, and you are going to give me the right answer. Understand? Oh, OK. So the tiger took a deep breath. Ooh.  Tell me, elephant, how does my breath smell? Oh, that poor elephant could barely breathe. He sniffed with his trunk carefully and said, oh, to tell you the truth, sir, it really stinks.  My prime minister, he had hurt my feelings. And before that elephant could get away, I'm sorry, sir. The tiger was on top of him, and he pulled him this way. And he pulled him that way, and then he ate him up in three repulsed. Wah. Wah. Stop. Hold on a second here, grandma.  How could a normal-sized tiger eat a huge elephant up in just three gulps? I mean, it defies reality. My dear, they are puppets. They can do whatever they like. Oh. Now can I continue? Yes. Yummy, yummy. Who's next? Hee, hee, hee, hee, hee, hee. Now the monkey had seen everything that happened to the elephant. He was determined not to make the same mistake. Ah. Now listen, monkey. My prime minister must be very careful with words. I'm going to ask you a question. You are going to give me the right answer. Understand? Hee, hee, hee, hee, hee, hee. So the tiger took another deep breath. Whoooah.  Whoooah. Now, tell me, how does my breath smell? Oh, that monkey was clever. He sniffed the tiger carefully, and then he smiled and said, oh yeah, majesty. It smells so sweet. Like roses. Hee, hee, hee, hee.  My prime minister can't tell me lies. And before that monkey climbed back up a tree, hee, hee, hee, hee, hee, hee, hee. The tiger was on top of him and ate him up too. Oh, I love this interviewing process. It's so nutritious. Who's next to me? I came hopping up. Of course, I had seen everything that happened to the elephant and the monkey. Ah. Now listen, bunny. My prime minister must be very careful with words. I'm going to ask you a question, and you're going to give me the right answer. Understand? Uh-huh. So the tiger took another deep breath. Whoooah. And he roared and he breathed all over me. Whoooah. Whoooah. Everybody, how does my breath smell? Well, I just twitched my little pink nose. I sniffed, I sniffled, I went back, back, back. And I sneezed all over the tiger. I said, ah, you with me, but I have a terrible cold. I can't follow a thing. Oh, the answer. Oh, it is. Good answer. Thank you, sir. You will be my new prime minister now. Let's get to work. So little time, so many animals to eat. Oh, sir, sir, I'm deeply honored. But sir, sir, sir, what about the health plan? Sir, wait, wait, wait, wait. And that is why, to this very day, we rabbits always sniffling twitch our little noses, just in case the boss is still watching.  And it's not very scientific either, you know. No, it's not good, it's not good natural science, but it is perfectly good political science. If you ever want to be successful in politics, just remember, a sense of smell does you know good whatsoever. Oh, but grandma, it's not fair.  Very little stinks. Not always, my dear. I'll tell you another story about your job as the tight-use prime minister. Yes, in part, it turned out to be a terrible job, but the benefits were quite good. And one of the best perks was new government housing. No more hole in the ground for me. This was a full-blown cave close to all major game trails and watering holes. I even hired a decorator to add all the finishing touches. And then I invited my entire family over for dinner. And now we found such a good parking place. Wow, look at this place. Well, really luxurious. Oh, she's doing so well. If only she were married. Oh, great place for parties. Where's the guest room? Where's the bathroom? Oh, big TV. What a lovely to do with it. Who's your decorator? And then another guest arrived. I hope I'm not late. My boss, the tiger, just invited himself into the kitchen and made himself one of the family for dinner. My sister, Shirley. And then he ate my mother-in-law. Hey, that's right. And then he ate my brother Basil and my sister, Barbara. And my brother, Peter. And my auntie, Ping, my uncle, Pong, my cousins, Wing, Wong, Mandy, the Fox, and Roxy Buns. He even ate my boyfriend, Shaquille. Oh, bummer, dear bummer, blah, blah. That was the final straw. Enough was enough. I stood straight up, made my meanest, most assertive face, I said, ah, ah, ah, excuse me. What's for dessert? I don't know. I'll run to the deli and find out. I'll be right back. Goodbye. And I ran out the back door as fast as I could. I sat down at the corner of the box and I cried. I cried. I cried. Weah, weah, weah. And along came a small cat. Wham. What's the matter? The tiger's in my kitchen and he won't get out. Well, I'm a cat. And he's a cat. He'll listen to me. So that cat went inside my kitchen. Wow, fancy, schmiancy. Hello, kite, tiger. Hello, kitty. I don't know. Tiger, I'm a cat.  So we should be able to sit down, like, civilize the animals and discuss your anger management. Goodbye, kitty. Blah. Meow. And the cat ran out of the house, sat down next to me and cried. Meow. Meow. Meow. Now when I cried, weah, weah, weah. And along came a little doggie. What's the matter? The tiger's in my kitchen and he won't get out.  Well, listen, I'm a dog. I like bones. He likes bones. Yeah, he'll listen to me. He went inside the house. Oh, I like bones. He likes bones. Whoa. Nice carpeting. Tiger. Tiger. Tiger. I like bones. And you like bones.  And when that doggie ran out of the house, sat down next to us in the garden and cried. Meow. And the cat cried. Meow. When I cried, weah, weah, weah. And along came a great big water buffalo, one of the biggest animals in the forest. Meow. Oh, what's the matter? Oh, tiger's in my kitchen and he won't get out. Well, oh, big, he's big hill. Listen to me. So that water buffalo squeeze himself into the bathroom. Whoa. Oh, sorry, there goes the China cabinet. Tiger. Tiger. Oh, big. Yeah. Much bigger. Oh, and that water buffalo ran out of the house, sat down next to us and cried. Move. Move. Move. And the dog cried. Oh, oh, oh. Oh, the cat cried too.  Me help. You help all of us, but you're so little. Meow, teeny tiny. Oh, itsy-bitsy. Ooh, micro-sculpic. Good.  She had 24 hours to meet and die, and she still had time to help others. She blew straight into my kitchen. All right, who let the screen door open? Hey, hey, you get out of here.  Count to three, one. Two. Two and a half. That's my, that's my, that's my, that's my nose. And the tiger ran out of my house so fast, he almost forgot his tail. And as that little mosquito flew out past us animals, we heard her say, that's good. Little is good. Oh, grandma. I like that story. Yes. Child, remember it helps to have a sharp bite. Yeah. So was that the end of the tiger grandma? No, worse was yet to come. He was still my boss and a paycheck is a paycheck. Now I had lots to do, but that's another story. You better start your trick or treating before. And also I think, I think Kara Goose is waiting now. Oh, Kara Goose. Oh, he can come trick or treating with me. All right, let's get out here with that. Now. All right. Let's go. Okay, my dear. Good night, grandma. Love you. Maybe I'll go down to the east village and join the parade. Oh, yeah, that's good. When the moon hits your eye like a big pizza pie. That's a moray. Thank you. Voice control. Yes. I have a short presentation. Hello again. My name is I have before the show, I would like to introduce my figures. This is the character show. Is the home of the character. I have, I have two main character in the show. The first one is the characters. Cara means is that black in Turkish. Because his eyes. It's coming from the eyes of the characters. The another character is Hachivat. And the guy who has been in the hatch before. You have the two main character in the show. If you watch any character show, you will see these two characters like a punch and Judy. And that's interactive show. If the character asks you some question, please feel free to answer. And it is a little bit different than the other four. So here is the figures. It's the one man show. Here's the Hachivat. There's the characters. And the name of the show is the force of the which, which is text from 19th century, the popular tree. But I know the summary and some dialogue from the show. The main goal of the production is I forget everything and I will improvise it. So I have many figures at the back of the stage, which is made from traditional style, like 700 years ago. After the show, we will talk about in detail. I have many figures back off the stage. I'm so excited because I don't know what I will perform. So it's always unique. Thank you for coming. See you after the show. I am at a place so distant, neither on clay nor on summit, sometimes on sea, sometimes on dirt. Hi friends, I'm in America. That's United. There are no boundaries for dreams and find plenty of strains. Some are safe, some are ravenous. I came to America. That is United. I'm the main surgeon for a mate, the son of mine who shall be content, who needs money, goods and estate. However, I'm in America. That's United. Hi, everyone. This is Hajjouad. Yes, correct. Welcome to Carragher Show. Thank you. Okay, okay, okay. I rumbled on too much. I realize mainly I would like to define the body whom I should to breathe. I'm Hajjouad, as I mentioned. I will talk my best friend and then we will keep going to you with him. Again. Hajjouad, Hajjouad, Hajjouad, I don't want to play today. Okay, okay. See you soon. Okay, okay, okay. Let's come to the stage, man. I don't want to play. Okay, maybe see you soon. As I mentioned, tomorrow or next week. No, no, you have to come today. The audience are waiting you. No, I don't want to play. Carragher. Oh, he started sleeping. Oh my God. Burusa, Sheikh Heder Aslam. Hajjouad, why do you speak Turkish? They don't know what you are saying.  Oh my gosh. Guys, he doesn't come. If he doesn't come, the show doesn't start. Yes. What are we going to do? Okay, shall we call him together? Okay, awesome. Are you ready? Are you ready? Awesome. One, two, three. Carragher.  Oh my gosh. One more time. One, two, three. Carragher. Nothing. Final time. One, two, three. Carragher. Oh my goodness. Oh my gosh. Look at the audience. They are upside down. They are such a bumpkin. Oh my gosh. Hajjouad, Hajjouad, you are upside down too? I'm not upside down. Are you kidding me? Ayhan? What happened, Carragher? Ayhan, what happened? I thought you were like a lever, man. You are upside down too? I'm not upside down. Perhaps you are. Okay, I'm going to help you. Okay, I'm not upside down. But where is Carragher? What is Hajjouad? Guys, what is Hajjouad?  Okay, I will count the two, then we will call out Hajjouad. Okay. One, two, three. Hajjouad. Who are you? Who are you? These Carragher. These Carragher. No, you are not. I'm Carragher. Who are you? No, you are not. I'm Carragher. Who are you? Don't be what I say. You are crazy. Don't be what I say. You are crazy. Oh my goodness. You have gone all trails. Okay, let us ask the audience, who is the real one? Guys. Guys, I have a question. Do you know who is the real Carragher of this show? Left or right? Left. Formula for you? Stage left? What? Stage right? You know nothing. You are crazy.  Hajjouad. Hajjouad. Hajjouad, come here, my friend. How are you? Okay. Okay, thank you. How is everything good? Oh, thank you. Do you know who am I? No. Rabbit? No, I'm not rabbit. I am Mrs. Rabbit. Oh, you like my bicycle? But it's not yours. It's mine. Thank you. I am coming from another production, Chinese Theatre Works. I watched their show, but it was really good. Thank you because the performers are looking at me. I will talk later on. Okay. Do you know who am I? No, I'm a singer. I'm most popular singer of New York. Have you heard before? Yeah? Okay, do you want to hear my voice? Yes, yes. Okay, I'm ready. Sunshine. Sunshine. Sunshine. That's it. It's in progress. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Hajjouad. Oh, my gosh. Oh, wow. I'm top of the tree. Wow. Give me one second. Give me one second. One, two, three. Hajjouad. My friend told me you're my friend. Oh, wow. Oh, I do. What happened? I fell off the tree. Look at me. I'm completely dragged. Oh, wow. They call this a magical tree. It's one of the most impressive trees in the world. Whoever comes under this tree, this with their double, whoever comes, one goes as two. Oh, I compete. Sorry. Oh, my God. Oh, my God. Oh, look at this. Wow. That's great. Oh, let me have more sips. Oh, who hit me? Guys? Who hit me? No. Maybe a kid at Ronas too. Let me have more sips. I know. I know this tree did it. I'm going to show you right now. Give me one second. Oh, now it looks great. Okay. Let me have sleep. You can destroy everything. Hajjouad, my friend, please come here. Please come here. You look great. You look awesome. No, no, no, my friend, please help me. What I told you is a magical tree. Don't touch the tree. Okay. It's my bad. Please help me. Please help me. Okay. Okay. I'm going to help you. I will just pray for you. Okay. You're going to just say amen. Okay. No other words. Of course. Of course. Please start. Okay. What are you doing? No other words. Okay. Okay. Keep going. Hajjouad, my friend, come here. Hajjouad, you look great. You look awesome. Are you kidding me? Of course I'm kidding you. What are we going to do? I have no idea. Everyone, you can ask Ayhan. He performed this show millions of times. I think he's crazy. He has no idea. Oh my God. Oh my God. What are we going to do? Okay. Okay. I will pray again. Okay. No other words. Of course. Of course. Okay. Finally. See you soon. What? Hajjouad, please come here, my friend. Please. Okay. What you are saying at the beginning of the show? See you soon, right? You are kidding me. I'm not kidding you. Please help me. Okay. Okay. Okay. I'm going to help you. But, okay. Just say amen. Okay. No other words. Of course. Of course. Please. Please. I was just joking. Okay. Okay. One more time. Hajjouad. Hajjouad, my friend. Please come here. Oh my gosh. Look at the New York. Oh my gosh. Look at the professor. Oh my gosh. Look at the audience. Only ten. Oh my gosh. Look at Ayhan. He's suffering. God, I guess. What happened? God, I guess. What happened? God, I guess. You look great.  I'm going to. I'm going to. I'm going to keep going. Watch me. Oh, finally. Oh my goodness.   Okay. Let's leave from here. Oh my gosh. Hajjouad. What happened? Finally, I return to a woman. That's great. Okay. What are we going to do? I think we should celebrate it. Are you sure? Of course I am sure. Okay. Let's call some popular singer from Turkey. Okay. That's great. Okay. Okay. Now I'm calling my friend from Turkey. He is so popular in Turkey. Are we ready? Awesome. Hajjouad. Hajjouad. What happened? God, I guess. Hajjouad. He looks like an angel. I think he's not from Turkey. Are you sure? What an intellectual guy you are. Okay. Please stop. Please stop. He's not from Turkey. Stop. Okay. Sorry guys. It's my bad. Okay. Now I will call a popular singer from Turkey. Yes. I'm sure he is Turkish. Yes, guys. You are right. Okay. Let's call his friend. He's from Ankara. Okay. Thank you. Thank you. Okay. We came at the end of the show. Thank you for coming to your next show. Have a great one. Bye bye. Thank you. So that was our first professional performance and then right away to establish the amount of topics that I mentioned to Turkey's television. And then I think we're going to continue to direct it. It's almost a while away from us. And I hope it's going to be higher to give the entire company to us. You say you just hang his heart. You hang his sister's hair. So that, yeah. Yeah. Right. Yeah. One, two, three, four. Right. One, two, three. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Have you married? Oh, thank you for coming to perform for us all the way from question that we only one eye. That's enough. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Yeah, sorry, we did not bring our folks here today, so because it's a live stream. Yeah, so I would say, first of all, another round of applause, you know, this was truly a treat to have you all here. Thank you. Thank you. We're so happy to be here. Yeah. Maybe first, let's introduce us, that was Professor Marvin Carlson, one of the great theater historian in the world, some say it is the historian of the world here from the Graduate Center CUNY. Marvin, you researched so much about German theater, French theater, the Moliere, Arab theater also a lot. Why did you think it was important to create a book, which is called Turkish traditional theater, a Karagos puppet place? Why, why did you do that? Well, the, this is, of course, part of a very ambitious series of books that Frank has made possible through the Siegel Center. There, there are many, many more books that could be added to this. Because, as you see tonight, the range of theater available in the world is enormous. And we in the United States have a very narrow view on the whole of what theater is. For us, for most of us, theater is primarily European theater and maybe American theater. But there's a vast amount of theater in the rest of the world that we know really very little about and could enormously enrich our experience of what theater is and what it has to say about the human condition. The Siegel Center is special and indeed unique in the fact that it is and always has been devoted to expanding our horizons of theater. It's an organization that's very much involved with the New York theater and much to its credit. Prelude gives an example of that. But equally important and to my mind, even more important is the fact that it as part of its mission to expose New Yorkers and Americans in general to something of the wide variety that's possible in theater. That's both done both by programs like this one. And we've already remarked on this but again I have to say what an astonishing thing it is and how historical it is to see these puppets together on the same stage. I'm sure this is the first time in the history of the world that a Chinese puppet has met a Turkish Karagosian puppet. And that is symbolic it seems to me of the kind of bridge building that the Siegel Center has been specialized in. The performances are the heart of theater of course. But the Siegel Center also takes as part of its mission, making texts available as this is an example. And this is part of a network of publications. We have a very large collection of material from the Middle East the Arab world. And again, the Siegel Center is the world leader in that in publishing such texts. We've begun publishing a variety of puppet texts, beginning with the earliest puppet theater known the 13th century puppet plays shadow plays as well. And again, the Siegel Center in Egypt, and certainly we hope to continue that tradition. But our tradition is all our goal is also to do as much as possible of lesser known theater from around the world. So, I can't say how pleased I am, not only about this occasion but about all that it represents. I've heard about shadow theater. Shadow puppet theater is found around the world. And again, it's a kind of theater, puppet theater in general is not a significant part of theater consciousness in the United States, like international theater. And in many parts of the theater, it's a major form and in some parts, as in Indonesia, the great traditional form. We could, and I hope we will, provide more programs showing us the variety of puppet theaters, whether we'll ever be able to flood this place and do a tie or a chimera water puppet, which I would really like to see. I haven't seen it in Thailand, but this is not a matter of a screen but a whole tank of water we would have to have here. But that just is another example, not only of what a rich tradition is here, but what an enormously varied tradition. Mostly when people think of puppets, they think of traditional marionettes. There are hundreds of kinds of puppets. And here, the shadow puppets, which are themselves exist in many, many different forms, give us something of a sample of what an incredible rich cultural inheritance is here. And I hope that Frank will be able to continue to give us more of it in the future. Thank you again, Frank. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. So to the companies, how did it feel tonight to perform and also together? Well, I just want to second what the professor was saying about shadow puppetry. It's really deeply rooted in human culture. It's the oldest form of motion pictures goes back to who knows when caves, I guess, when they were sitting in caves and casting shadows on the wall. Here in the United States, it's had kind of a different kind of context cultural context, not like in parts of Asia where it's related to sacred rituals. Using using the sacred texts like the Mahabrata and the Ramayana for all its for its for its theater pieces. Or even in China where it's a little more secular, not as secular as in Turkey where it was played in coffee houses, but kind of similar to that. And the best shadow puppetry really didn't become part of anything until like the late 18th century they started bringing Chinese shadows, you know travelers from from the east would bring them over and one bright guy in in Paris decided he was going to start a shadow theater there in Paris. That was the first European shadows. And then later on in the 19th century, a lot of the artists fell in love with the Indonesian shadow figures that they were seeing and it kind of worked very well with these modernist things that were happening and they started using it and in cabarets and stuff and from there it developed in its own way. So I fell in love with shadows. My first semester at University of Connecticut which is the only school that has a puppetry program. And I just happened to be there from the shadow seminar, semester, and fell in love with the art form. And I've been doing it ever since in. And you and I met in the 90s. Oh, we met in 84. Yes, but we circled around some people. She was doing Chinese opera actually at the time, and then later on, we started doing the shadows, because actually the shadow puppets that Chinese shadows are really closely related to picking opera in the in the style in the in the in the in the repertoire, very, very close relationships to it. So, but it was nice that I also had this kind of, you know, kind of avant-garde downtown background to. So we mixed the two of them, especially with this show that we did for you tonight, which is one of our touring shows. It's very, very small you can take it on an airplane without even getting overweight charges on your suitcase. So it's a very easy traveling show, and it works for audiences all over the world so what could be better than that. Okay, in, in Chinese history, the shadow theater was first documented in Han dynasty, and that the Emperor Han Wudi once was very depressed because one of his beloved wife passed away, and the smart officers thought about a good way to, to live up his spirit. So he asked the Emperor sitting in the evening outside of a tent, and then he saw, and there is a shaman was hiding behind the screen, and then he saw the shadow of his that wife appeared. So he feel much better. He wrote even wrote something about that. It's in Chinese it is which means, is that you? Isn't that you?  So late. So this is the first ever documentary in Chinese history about shadow. And my major was Chinese opera in Chinese cultural university in Taiwan. I did not see any traditional shadow theater till I came to America. I saw shadow theater happen in Joe Humphrey's basement, and the first show I saw was monkey king. And I was really surprised. And so she asked me to first to translate a story about Baogong. And then she asked me to find actors and actress to do voice over for the show. And, and then after that she asked me to demonstrate how the Chinese opera performer move. So her American actress can learn from me. And then she started to ask me to be a teaching artist, and then performer, and then artistic director and then executive director. And before she came to me, she said, Hey, this is your art, you should take over.  And in December, we were going to bring our troop to celebrate her birthday. Yeah, and I'm, you know, we Chinese all have to thanks Joe Humphrey and Pauline Benton, who helped Chinese to preserve our art. We saw these two ladies, we won't able to do the show. And also I want to say, you know, Stephen's first show about shadow show in Connecticut was using town dynasty poetry. And she loves Chinese culture. And she read Yi Jing, Dao De Jing, all the Tang Song poetry and the literature. And it was done on an overhead trajectory. Yeah, yeah. So in China, traditional shadow theater was be was like Turkish perform vertically behind the screen. But in America, of course, everything did just opposite to what we Chinese did. So we put that in front of the screen and all the shadow puppets lie down. So, but the benefit of it is we can enlarge shadow figures like for five or 600 people to see it instead of around 100. And that's because Stephen's training from from Connecticut. And I think downtown New York. Yes, downtown. Yes. And even though you this is the first time you ever seen Stephen, but I'm sure you saw one of his work. In, or heard of it is Lion King on Broadway. He made all the shadow puppets for the show. Well, yes. I want to say a word to Julie Tamer who is really, really fell in love with shadow theater when she was, she was like on a full bright fellowship living in Indonesia and she started her first theater company there. And she commissioned a whole set of leather cow hide shadow figures and brought them back here to New York. Did a show called way of snow, which I saw and then that's when I first met her and then almost every one of her shows has some kind of shadow theater in it and so she was really happy when I came along because she couldn't find any real shadow crafters in New York City. Yeah, that's quite quite quite amazing. Tell us a little bit about your experience in the US and your work in 2000. I will talk about my creditors background, especially because in 2009, the creditors decorated as cultural heritage of humanity by UNESCO. And in that time, we've had only just three performers in the world, and they use three three active characters performer and they were living in Istanbul and one of them from Bursa, and they organize a workshop. It was reported by government and they selected to any young artists from different parts of the world. And I was one of the dead one, and they gave us the course, how to perform it. What is the history of the Caragos and how we can make in traditional style, and they teach us all techniques. It was around 200 hours, one by one. And then later on, we make a show for ideas to any young artists made only one show. Normally, you know, it's one artist's performance. The name of the show Caragos in the course. Caragos tried to learn or teach his story to audience and we were in this reality in our show. Later on, this important trick because in the traditional style, we have a master and it doesn't teach in any university in, especially in my home country as well.  If you approve your performance and check your background, historical, musical background, everything. And then if he or she let you perform by yourself, you can start your show. And then they approved our performance and I started performing as a solo performer. In 2016, I came to the U.S. then I, it was interesting because as an actor, because my background is acting, and it's really hard to, you know, as an immigrant to perform in the United States. That's why I changed my way and I bring to the, the traditional art form to here and adapt to the United States and just focus the traditional style and bring to the classic texts in the, in the shallow theater. I adapted Shakespeare's Hamlet in Karegö style. Don Quixote or some different adapted classic texts to modern modern time, make it American figures, and I get really great reaction. And then I approved as a extraordinary ability artist status, the government gave me a green card directly now waiting citizenship, and then I invited many university in the U.S. And in second year I perform in the Broadway. Then I invited the Harvard, MIT, many international universities. Now I have a couple of students I'm teaching in some universities, especially traditional style and then perform with them. And now it's, we are talking about one of the oldest art form in the world, but it's so new in the U.S. And, but now I get really great reaction in the festivals and the audience. It does the story of Karegö in the U.S. And so, so in a way, I think Tony Kushner once said, New York is the melting pot, but it never melted. So how is it in a way as you as an immigrant experienced both of you said that you came. Do you feel it's part of it is there an openness? Have you done collaborations of the hybrid forms? Yes, I did. In two years ago I was in the board of the properties of America, and it's really important as an immigrant to be part of this community. And I saw that the especially puppetry world has they support each other. And they are open to open mind and support the immigrant works and in acting work is really different. Because I saw in my home country as well as I think is similar in the U.S. But in the puppetry world, they support each other. They are so friendly and lovely. And I get really great support with them. And in my first international festival in 2018 in Minnesota University, I performed there. The many puppeteer who watched the Karegö's first time in life, then they invite me in different part of the U.S. Then I have been around 35 different states, the country in the U.S. I have around 30 different countries in the world. And yeah, I do some collaboration with the university especially. They are acting class, they invite me, I teach the traditional style, then we select one text. And then now good to mix the culture and tell their story. If you just push your traditional just text from 19th and 18th and it doesn't make sense this comedy or the summary. That's why we have to it should be keep alive. And yeah, it works like this in my side. I think also another interesting thing about shadow theater as an art form is how well it melds together, even though it's so ancient but it also melds together with this new kind of technology of motion imagery live performance. And we especially found this out during the pandemic when we were sitting there in our little studio. So we had a little shadow screen that fit just perfectly into the little zoom box, and it really makes sense and the images are very graphic and strong. And we were able to produce all these shadow slams international shadow slams with artists from four different continents. It was like a cultural survival lifesaver in a way. But shadow puppetry kind of lives in this kind of region where all different art forms kind of meld together live performance it is, you know, you're there on stage, but it's not the, it's not the actor the performer it's this object this, this image, the image of an object not even an object it's the image of the object that you're playing with. So it works very well with all those technologies as well as in live performances in cabarets like where traditional Turkish stuff or also also where in markets and night theaters where where the traditional Chinese were. And in downtown clubs and La Mama and where where you still find that kind of stuff today. So I think that's really remarkable thing about this art form. Yeah, as an immigrant, you know I feel like very, very, very lucky that I landed in New York City. And in, I came here in 1980. It is a time that New York art feel really opened up the ideas. Welcome to artists to blending all kind of theater or different elements because before music is music part dances dance field right puppets puppets they're all separated. But after 1960 the American Chinese American cultural revolution started and then like a stone head into the lake that the change or waves keep moving out and till the time that everything blended together, and I came in that in that wave I feel like I'm extremely lucky. So, I came here, and my, I get into working for Asia society as they are artists in residence, and as well as Asian American art center. So they will send me to the different universities and the libraries and museum to present Chinese culture through performing art. And the one of our intern today she said, Oh, Turkish company, but, but where's other artists so far only see one. And I told her I said, It is very, very difficult for artists come to New York alone when when he or she wanted to bring their culture alone. There is no Institute for you to be here and present your shows like today. I said I started just like him, one person I do one person picking opera show. And I told her I was so proud that the longest program I can do by myself is three hours. Just like keeping changing my costume and my props and doing different repertoire, I read because I really was so passionate. I wanted the whole world to see to get to know Chinese theater, and I was really so happy to hear European like Caucasian scholar talking about the first time we met, then when Frank bring us he said, he said he read about, you know, he is an expert from the world theater history that thick, but turn up to Chinese theater, maybe just one page. The whole world doesn't know about Chinese. So that's one motivation I want to come to America. I want to show the world about about Chinese theater, maybe you had the same feeling that nobody know about Turkish. The interesting thing is, I get support from America more than my home countries. Oh, wow. Because yeah, this I have, I have been maybe 200 times performing the US I just performed five or six time for from for Turkish community. And that's interesting point. There's this, they have many political backgrounds or there's some, they are looking interesting to the kind of art form, because it's perform on the first children, many performers just for survive. So the other important thing is, this is the first book, which is translate the Kragos play to English. I, when I came to the US I was, because I start to live in the US I have to perform in English. There is no other option, because you have to just perform your community, but I would like to be universal. So that's why I work couple of translator. Who knows the Turkish American translator, and then translate a couple of play or I write the text. They translated from Turkish English, because it's the native speaker should write the text at the end of the day. So that's why this book is really important. Thank you for this work. And I was, I just find only one text from Texas University. It's, it's, this is the, about my performance of the bubble of the public tree. And the, it's the nazi nazi is my one of the friend, the co co translator. And we, I was talking about it to any artist right here she was the one of the dead one. It's a good to see her name on the, on the page. Yeah, thank you. Yeah, and I also want to point out before we now open up to audience question it's also a way of popular theater. We as the French, the theater popular, which is very important like circus, you know, there's contemporary great circus, you know, there's also, as you said, it's for children and young adults. So very little, stunningly, very, very little in the US, you know, so I think this is a great art form and we need to know more on the Asia society was the first one after World War Two actually before La Mama, there was Ellen Stewart who said I was the first to present international theater artists and nobody, but the ones who did was Asia society Indonesian artists came for dance or puppets and also from China so they they open up so it's really a short history of global international work but just imagine you would listen just to music from your country and you would never hear the music from countries and how beautiful it is really is that it influences each other and how big the world isn't. And we hope that this evening is a contribution and maybe Marvin we should think about commission them to do the Ibn Daniel place the place Marvin also and I we publish them. One of the oldest texts of mankind for the theater, a puppet place from Egypt 12th century 13th century. Fantastic way we did the reading here they actually work so maybe we could think about creating something that also hasn't been done before in 800 years they most probably haven't been performed with it. So we could, we could actually do something and do an evening here. But let's put up some light for the audience maybe you have a comment or a question or a contribution. Yeah. There are there are writers who said that one of the important things about puppetry is that it allowed us to get material past the sensor. In terms of shadow puppetry or the larger range of puppetry. Could someone speak to that. We, for example, we had Basil Jones here from handspring company from South Africa, and who said very interesting things about puppets but one of them said, at the time of the apartheid was very hard to openly speak the truth to the tiger. Even so we now heard that the emperor tiger commissioned himself the place to look at and I hope they wrote good place so he didn't get upset but he said, if a puppet says something outrageous and insults, you can sue a puppet. So they could get around they say they were the very first place done lcdpq like about a lesbian lover fear but they were puppets. It would be unthinkable. But it was a possible because they were puppets and you cannot bring a puppet to court. Well, but you could bring a puppeteer to court. Yes. But it's true in China to the way like.  Sun Wukong who's a great like celestial clown figure of incredible like cross between Merlin and bugs bunny and and Jackie Chan all in one little body. In Turkish to write Turkish puppeteers always give a comment about political issues or whatever. Yeah. Yeah, that's why we have an artist in the jail right now. That's funny. Yes, hi. My name is Alicia Kaplan. I am a theater artist, and I'm so impressed. I'm so grateful for Frank here, and all of you on the international stage. I congratulate you. My knowledge has so increased about shadow puppets. I have a question for Stephen Stephen Kaplan to. Yeah. How do you like that and know that I love your interpretations you did so many different voices. Ah, well, he got the international award for voice over a war in China. Oh, incredible. No, I got I never really studied to be an actor. Oh, that's how I was going to ask you. I was like a techie. I was a I was a I was an artist I was sitting there making all this stuff and then by the time the funds started with all the actors. I was onto the next project, and it wasn't until Julie. I got into Julie shows and first I was making the puppets, and then I had to be backstage to help fix the puppets when they broke. And then she's fine. I said, Okay, you can be in the park. And then, and then Kwong Yu came along and she said, Okay, you have to do all these voices because, you know, I speak English and incredible. It was it was a challenge for me, but I worked with actors. I got it so I wouldn't like rip out my vocal cords when I was doing the tiger. Stephen, can you give them a little bit demonstration about how you use your body to make different voices perfect. Oh, like tiger or muscular. Well, I don't know if this is, this is not a trade secret. I think you learn how to do this in acting one, which, which I missed by the way, I failed my acting one audition class.  Yeah, you place it down as the tiger is placed down here in the belly.  Here he is. And then you have the next one here where maybe the, the cow lives. And then there's the doggy, the doggy who's up here. And then there's this, and then there's little bunnies here.  He was right up here in your nose. Very simple. But to switch quickly. Well, that just takes a lot of practice. I mean, it, it, how many times have we done that show? We did this show in year 2001. Yeah, but this is one of the most popular show in Chinese we say, Xiao Bing Li, Da Gong, that a little soldier, but he fights so many battles. Right. Yeah, after the 400 or 500th time you figured out. Yeah, maybe one more comment or. Hi. Thank you so much for the performance and for the comments. I'm Mia. I'm a second year student here in the theater department. I have a, I have one question for the artist and one question for Marvin, if that's possible. So for the artists, I know you all said that the shows are more of a secular kind of entertainment nowadays, but I also love the story about Han Wu Di and also about how the little figures can come alive in the night if you don't take the head off. And what is their spiritual element in the traditions in the Chinese tradition or in the Turkish tradition of shadow puppetry. Oh yeah. I remember the first time I brought to Steven to Taiwan, and it was in July Chinese lunar calendar July is a ghost month. In America you only celebrate the ghost just Halloween just one day we Chinese take those very seriously we take home months. And then Steven was walking on the street and then they saw the show. And there's no audience they just the puppeteers is very excited for from themselves as I said there's no audience I said, no they have audience audiences for the deities. So, and you can see all the offering on the street. So Chinese always keep that keep that tradition in our society. Right, Steven. Yeah, yeah but the kind of classical Chinese style which like this represents really was a secularization of that and it was kind of a miniature rising the taking opera and pretty much. Yeah, pretty, pretty accurately with the repertoire and the costumes I mean the costumes that white snake is wearing here is it is exactly the same right exactly what hair style in actresses would play in the operas, the hairstyle. I think so even more than spiritual world is how they preserve the traditional life into the show. In Turkish we have many different characters art form. Like, I mean, one for now we perform for adults, we have children characters form. And there is different, it has different texts, and we have the south the south religion karagos or erotic karagos or for the palace karagos for example in 19th century Sultan hired many different artists in the in the palace, and there is no TV, no internet and if they want entertainment, he called the performer and there is a small karagos stage, small figures and that there's different story and he all their private entertainment. Yeah it's one one for one audience. Yeah, I have a plan for just for make it for one traditional festival for one audience, because I have small, you saw the junior hajwad right that the whole figures is really small, the small stage and just performed by one audience and they can whatever story he performed one he can bring the stage. Exactly. Yeah, thank you so much. That would be cool. I would love to see the one on one performance. And the question for Marvin so, as I understand it, a lot of puppetry traditions doesn't really have texts, right, and also even if it does have a text, it does have a script. What what we just saw like all the performance of music and all the like the wonderful performance, like the projector and everything. There are a lot of elements that can't really be recorded in the text. So how do you contend with that in your book. I mean I didn't have a chance to read the book so I don't know how you record all those things. Well, the, the, you're right, the, the, the tradition of puppetry is very old, and it's connected of course with theater, but it's also connected with narrative poetry and and recitation of of epic stories and so on, which means that if you go very far back in puppetry and indeed a lot of contemporary puppetry, there is no text, or there is a text but it's not a little written text. As, as the examples we have here. This is show they've done many times they know it, it may vary slightly from which is one of its advantages that it can, it can adjust the situation, but if you see a production of let's say a wild cologne of a very elaborate Indonesian shadow puppet theater, it may last for hours. The puppeteer knows that text. On the other hand, the puppeteer can adjust the text and take bits and pieces of this. All of this has to do with, with the tradition of, of narrative poetry and narration, which is very close to to the puppet tradition. Now the question of what, what is this then is, is a, is a very important question and that the, the answer is, in a way this is a, oh, the question of what is this then if this, if, if traditionally the puppet text is flexible and fluid, partially memorized, partially improvised. This is a problem with every, throughout the puppet theater. And what, what the traditional answer is, is pretty much what we did here. And that is, we, we find or ask some practitioner to write it down. And they write down how it exists at one point as if you would say, all right, here's what we did this night. And that then solidifies it here. But we have to recognize when we put it here. This is not the way it exists in the world. It exists as a, it, it, this isn't a literary form, largely. And we just have to recognize that we're translating into something else. It's like you made a movie of it. You're putting it into another form. It's, it's a real question or real problem. There really is no answer. You don't reproduce this except by itself. You can't do it in another form. I think there are many, many more questions and answers. We are already very, very much so over time. It's like, where does music live? It's not performed. Is it on the sheet? Is it written or is it improvised in the moment? You know, it doesn't really exist. I think as we believe it exists as Marvin says, performance is in the center of theater and theater studies. It exists actually when you see it. And but it's of course a helpful thing. I would like to thank again the two companies for joining us tonight. Marvin for putting the book together with us and for you for all taking time out of your life to listen about theater traditions from around the world and how they exist here in the United States and how they have been very influential as we just learned with Julie Tamer and the Lion King. So a big round of applause and thank you. Thank you. Thank you. An exceptional evening. Thank you. We all bury it.