Welcome everyone to the meeting of the Waterbury Select Board meeting on Monday, February the 27th, 2023. We're here at the Steel Community Room. Those both, we have a few people here as well as on Zoom. The first item is to approve the agenda. Can I have a motion to approve the agenda? I will move to approve the agenda. Okay. Did you ask for any additions? No, I'll do it after the motion and second. There's a motion and a second? I'll second. Okay. Do we have any discussion or additions to the agenda? Yes, I didn't know if maybe the board might consider if we have time going over just a brief review of your manager's items that you sent to everybody. Sure. Just to enlighten us on a couple of things there in detail. Before executive session. Where should we put that? But before the executive session. Sounds good. Review of manager's report. And then I would also propose, I don't know if we do it as part of the town meeting day or its own item, but I heard some proposals around CV fiber pertaining to town meeting and just thought we should discuss that as a board in advance of the meeting. We did have some questions for Jeff about that. So part of that item. So we're going to include that in Jeff's session about or separate? I'm okay with including it as long as if there are any more. Okay. So we'll have that there. And I have a last minute grant request that would require select board approval. Grant for? Uh-huh. The Cremont Aquatic Nuisance Control Grant and Aid Program, the Greeter Grant, which is the Friends of the Waterbury Reservoir. You're familiar with that? Yes, I am. Are you having that? I would assume after the town manager's report I'm just adding that on to the end. Any other items? Before executive session? Right. Before the executive session. Any other items that shall come before us? If not, we have a vote on approving the agenda as amended. All in favor say aye. Aye. Aye. Aye. Any opposed? Any abstentions? The agenda is passed. Next item on the agenda is the consent agenda item. The minutes of the February 13th meeting and first and third class liquor license for American Legion, second class liquor license for RG Blake Enterprises, Billings Mobile. Do I have a motion? I move to approve the consent agenda. Thank you, Chris. Any second? Second. We have a motion and a second. Any discussion on the consent agenda items? Never. Continue. Just as I forget it's not on the thing. Are we discussing about the tobacco issue? It's down here. Okay. I thought it was there, but I was just looking and I guess I didn't see it. It's yet to be. Sorry. We're all set. So consent motion by Chris, second by Roger. Yep. So if there's no further discussion, all in favor say aye. Aye. Aye. Aye. Aye. Aye. Aye. Aye. Aye. Aye. Aye. Aye. Aye. Aye. Aye. On the agenda. Move to the product they resourceக there being none, we'll move on to the next agenda item. The next agenda item is to meet with existing moderator, Jeff Kilgore, about town meeting day.  Come on. Welcome, Jeff. Thank you. Good to see you. Delighted that we're gonna have a town meeting. Yeah. Or a person town meeting. I think we all are. Or the majority of people in town, I think, I haven't heard too many naysayers. Maybe I'll leave the floor to you at first. Again, we plan on having an existing town meeting. One of the items at the meeting is to discuss possible alternatives in future times. Again, this would not be binding, but should we want to go to hybrid, and that will be kind of a purely discussion matter. So that's one of the big adjustment items. The only thing of note, I don't know, should we bring up the CV Fiverr thing? I think it's a great time. Yeah. The folks from CV Fiverr, we have granted them some ARPA money. They were glad we approved that. It's already in our budget. There was talk of them coming for additional money. They never came in for additional money. I know there was some talk. No, they didn't, Mike. We just talked about a few minutes ago. They came at the last meeting. Right. Yeah, right. On public forum. Yeah, right. But I think it was too late. It wasn't added to the, why? No, we just decided not to. It was when we were discussing ARPA two meetings ago, and we decided to give to some, and we chose not to give to CV Fiverr. It was our decision. Great, and I think part of the point was that they had come to us earlier, asked for a one-time request. I think they requested 75,000. We gave them 50. Felt that was the right number, and I don't think our minds have changed since then. And again, there's been some talk about our representative, Linda. Gravel. Gravel. She came to us, there was talk that she was gonna, we have given them time on the agenda, but then there was discussion, could she bring that whole issue up again? And from various discussions, I came back. I think Tom made comments, Karen did as well. I think we felt in her presentation, she can't make any kind of a recommendation for money. But if she as a private citizen during the budget session, we, you know, anyone's allowed to make amendments when we discuss the budget. So that would be so we don't know what's going to happen at that point. Is she gonna come? But that's how we left it, that she, it would not be within her presentation, but she could as a resident and voter, bring that to the voters, you know, as an amendment in the budget conversation. And my understanding is according to the law, you can't make a motion to something that's not warned already at town meeting day. So she can't make a separate motion to ask for money for CP fiber. She can on its own, she can make a motion to amend the budget to add funding for CP fiber. Right. So then the question for you would be, I think for you, Jeff, is when that motion is made, I think it would be useful to have clarity as she asking for taxpayer dollars or ARPA dollars. From my perspective, I think that's important. So if it's approved, then I know where to take it. Right. And that's just pre-warning. Alyssa? Well, I guess big picture, my question is, I was hoping during our time today, we were gonna review the motions and process and thinking of myself prior to this year when I sat in the audience at town meeting, recalling one conversation about 51 South Main Street when we were voting on an amendment to the amendment and the actual proposal in question became very complicated quickly. My two thoughts are, in addition to that general review, candidly, I think, like I said, I only heard of this through a one-off conversation with Tom. I think as a board, if we're willing, it's like Roger did tonight. I think we wanna have an ability to explain our justification. I will say when I heard about this, it caused me some anxiety because we made the intentional choice to put all of our other ARPA funding requests into the budget. So let's just say I have a lot invested in, hopefully, the budget as a whole cloth article passing and I think it's unfortunate this has come up because I think it just could get confusing for members of the public. So my lens is towards, you know, no disrespect to Linda. I think it's unfortunate if we're gonna have this play out on the floor. I think our goal was that the hopes would be, it would be out of meeting so everything could be presented. So I think there's a couple levels of is it worth still a proactive follow-up from us as a board or Tom saying, you as a private citizen can do whatever you like. We as the select board would very much prefer you not trying to amend the budget. But again, it is certainly her right. And then I think if we think it is gonna happen or regard this, I think it's great. We have time now to talk through how to make sure that's done clearly for everyone who's gonna be present. So before I make any statement, did you have anything you'd like to say at this point before I move along? I think the issue is a good issue to start talking about town meeting. As I like to stress and I have a number of times when I've been here, the purpose of town meeting is for the members of the municipality to comment on the warning issues. It is their meeting. And I like to stress that it is their meeting. It's not the select board's meeting. It's not the manager's meetings. Certainly not the moderator's meeting. The role of the moderators to simply a discussion traffic hop within the confines of Robert's rules as amended or Robert's rules and state statute. With respect to what I think I hear you talking about, I can see it potentially coming up in a variety of different places. One place is, and I don't have a copy of the warning. There's probably one. For the town meeting. Is it in here? There's probably one right there. Okay. Yep, we got it. But what I was gonna say is the usual process is to talk about the reports of the town officers or the reports of various committees. And sometimes it can come up there. Someone wants to talk about whatever entity it is, they can bring it up there. That's not usually a money item. Like I said, I'll see the money item would be. The specific committee reports. Another. Article seven. Sorry. The actual report. Okay. Reports of the town officers. That may or may not be a part of the report. If there's a report in there. I haven't read the annual report. If there's a report in there that talks about ARPA funding, someone may have a question about that. That could conceivably come up there. I don't think it's too main to ask for money there because it's just to improve the reports. I'm gonna dodge the budget for just a minute. Another potential place where it could come up is there is the usual list of folks that are asking for funding. Special articles. 22. Special articles starting at 12. Both. And if it's not there now, you can't add a new one. Because you need to warn items so that folks know what they're voting on. And people would need, they would have that signature from such. Or you could have already, you could already have decided that you're gonna go on the ballot. I mean, to go on the warning for the meeting. Or they could petition. That's the two ways to do that. Now, the last place is the item of the budget. And for those that are very interested in a more, what I would call a fairly formal, very strict approach to looking at it. If there were a motion to amend the budget that said I move to amend the budget to add $75,000 to come from ARMA funding and have that be added to the municipal budget. There would be, I anticipate there would be a second to the amendment. There might be something that was wrong. It's a moderator point of order that wasn't warned. And then it's up to the moderator to decide whether it should be included or not.  As those of you that have been to any one of the last 17 in-person town meetings, you know that I start off the meeting by outlining what the rules of the meeting are. And one of the things I always talk about is this isn't my meeting, this is the town's meeting. So anything that I say can be appealed. And if memory serves, the motion would be and if someone doesn't craft it right, I will help them to get it so that it is what they want. But I believe memory serves. The motion is I move that the decision of the moderator be appealed. Again, I haven't cribbed in town meeting yet but my recollection is that is debatable, one person can have a comment and then the moderator gets the last word. That's the only time a moderator can comment on something that comes before the meeting. Excuse me, Jeff, that one comment from whoever, is that for the reason for the appeal? Yes, that's doing the appeal. Right. And then the moderator gets to explain why he, in this case, he made the decision to either say yes or no, it's not your main. It's not your main. And then the vote is Ken is the decision of the moderator sustained. And so if it's an aye vote, a majority vote, it's an aye vote, the decision of the moderator is upheld and wherever the moderator has decided, that stays. If the vote goes in favor of the nays, then the opposite of what the moderator rules goes into play. So if I were to rule that the decision of the moderator is that the motion to amend the budget, the motion to amend the budget is not allowed and I am sustained, they can't amend the budget. And vice versa. And so it's really dependent upon upon how strongly the folks feel. And included in the discussion might be the reason why, what you just said, that we have worked to craft the budget, you can think and just think of the arguments. And the people will use that as a justification for what the moderator said, or if they really want it, they can vote against it. Or yeah, it depends on how I rule and I haven't given that issue a whole lot of thought. So I don't know, tonight I can't tell you what I'd say at the meeting, but that's the process. And it's really a process question as to how it's gonna be considered. Now, if I rule in favor of that kind of motion, that doesn't mean it's part of the budget yet. It just means that there's a motion to amend. And this gets into your issue where I can remember a couple of times where we've had motions to amend an amendment to that. You can only amend, you can amend a motion and you can amend that one time. So then you go, it's a step process. And I try very hard to keep close track of that. And I try also very hard to explain what it is we're doing as we're doing it so that people hopefully don't get too lost in the process. I realize some people can get lost because it's colorful. But that's sort of the way it works. The difficulty is it's less difficult is if there was a motion to put money for CV fiber that's via taxpayer money, because that's just a change. Not that there's gonna have to be a substantial and you're gonna have to have a change in a lot of budget line items to make a budget balance and or change the amount of what the taxes will be. To me, I think as Alyssa mentioned, it's more difficult if it's done via ARPA funds because it's not being warned. We have discussed it in the past. They haven't come within ARPA and we have sort of made a decision to not look at that as ARPA. So it's not a warned item. That's where I kind of get stuck with this thing. Well, I think that's very, very germane argument to what the moderator, why he should be overruled or why he should be sustained. Right, Alyssa or what Brian? I think.  So I want to try to get back on track here. We started out originally talking about one of our concerns with town meeting and Mike covered it a little bit but I think the number one issue is whether or not to turn town meeting to a completely Australian ballot versus in-house. I had concerns. Can you point out that article? That's not. Oh, there it is. It's a very long one. 21. Okay. Technically only of 20, so not binding. In just the background, we spoke with attorneys at the Riga Cities and Towns and their advice was not to warn it because in theory, if the public had a strong feeling about it, that someone could make a motion to amend the article to make a voluntary, make a discussion question binding. So they said, put it up at this point to have a conversation. So my concern is this and I expressed it to the board earlier and you maybe can shed some light on this. Having experienced several town meetings at the end of special articles and the plays and these out. So to have a conversation about traditional town meeting versus Australian ballot, I felt was prudent to be kind of in the forefront as opposed to on a tail end. I don't know how you feel about that. And then there's, of course, discussion about whether or not Tuesday is an appropriate day for it or whether it should be a nighttime deal or that's another discussion. So that's that. And then as far as Linda Gravel is concerned, our conundrum was because we had appropriated money to other entities besides Linda, C.B. Fiber, the ambulance service got some, Montevery Ice Center got some, EFUD got some, and Downstreet Housing got some. And senior centers, they don't have any yet. I think we'll see where that goes. Some of it went directly into the budget. Some of it we talked about whether to be a special article or not, and I think the consensus after we struggled with it was to put it all in the budget. But I know there's citizens out there who are concerned about not having the ability to discuss those particular appropriations. I don't know if you can shed any light on that, how that would be better served from the select board standpoint and the municipality standpoint. I don't wanna throw a wrench into our warning at this point. And I guess to your point there, as far as changing the budget, I don't believe, and I'm trying to think, Bill Shepplick always told me or told us that I don't believe you can change the budget at town meeting. You can turn it down or approve it, right? But I don't think you can change the act. You can't pinpoint. You can amend it. And unless, are you telling me that they can amend certain aspects of the budget? Certainly, they can vote to amend the budget. So if there is a fire truck that needs to be purchased, the people have the right to say, we're only gonna appropriate half the money for that. Before we had the capital budget, that happened a lot. Those were issues. Those were some of the highlights of town meeting. Highlights of discussion at town meeting. Because as we like to say, everybody has experience buying a truck. So everybody has an opinion. That greater that those are too expensive, we should spend lots of it. We had that all the time. But I think you raise, again, I'm speaking purely from a process standpoint, because that's really my interest in being a moderator. Now, other business, you can pretty much discuss whatever you want under other business. It's just not binding on the select board. You cannot make a decision under other business that will bind the select board. Now, with respect to the order of any article, you can, I believe, the technical motion is, you can amend the orders of the day, or simply bring an amendment to adjust the warning and have item number other business after article 20 follow an article. And that's a procedural, that's a procedural vote to change, basically to change the order of the business. And I can't remember whether it's debatable, requires an amendment. I don't think it requires a two-thirds vote, but I'll have that answer for you on town meeting day. So I'll just tell you that my number one, my number one concern about that, and again, I'll go with whatever the board decides. My number one concern to that is just to acquire maximum input from the public on this particular issue, because to me it's a very important issue. So I don't know if you have any recommendations or feelings about whether it should be earlier in the program, later in the program. I think it'd be fine where it is. Or should there be some kind of, did we decide to notify people the best way we could that this would come up? So it's on here, but what Tom was saying is we've got legal advice saying, if you say it's an article, I could stand up and say, no town meeting, everything Australian ballot next year and it would be binding. So that was why we had it at the end, because just to say personally, I agree around the participation. I think it's a question of, I did the whole thing about, is Karen's article three and four, not Karen's, but the article's regarding the town clerk coming up right away, sorry, article two. Nope, sorry, four, I keep getting around five. The town clerk, one year to three year, I thought that was a weird way to start, but we round about it in that delightful meeting and this is what we warn to the public. So... Okay, I hear your concerns, Chris, but I think if what Jeff was saying, if there was an adjustment to change the order of the day, and I'll seek Tom's, because he spoke with Vermont League of Seas and Towns, I think if that adjustment and that brought the discussion of town meeting up the front street, are we then... But still, other business, it's still not a warned item, so that's fine for conversation, not going to mind. So they couldn't on that item change that order. So maybe this will answer in satisfying my concern. Is there, as part of your introduction, could you say something to the fact that this topic will come up under other, you know, because... That's a good way to do it, is to encourage people to stay because it needs to fall in other business, and it's an important item we wish people were saying. To do that, or can you, or... Pickle, either. No, that's... That comes with the territory. I don't know. I'm picking your stuff, but we just want people to be aware. I've been to the no-pickle town meeting before. Could do it. I can remember a couple. But anyway, I guess part of my reticence about calling attention to a particular item is that one, people can read, number one. And number two, if they have an interest, they'll stay. And number three, I don't want to get called on the carpet, but why didn't you call out article 12, sub four, or 13, or 18? Because they're important too. That's just my thought. Roger. This is going back to the CV fiber. I was just reading through their write-up here. It's in the town report. And it says that CV fiber cannot receive town tax dollars and will support ongoing operations with subscription revenues. So I don't know what Linda's intentions are, but it says right here that they are not allowed to accept tax dollars. I think her intention originally that she expressed to the board was just to update the public on where CV... That's what I was thinking. That's what we all want. Yeah. So just a point of order. Good catch. Well, it could be ARPA funding. Yes, they can receive ARPA funding. Right. So that doesn't take away entirely the potential of asking for increased funding, but it would be through ARPA funding, not tax dollars dollars. Yeah, but I don't know that she expressed an opinion or a thought to do that, right? She was just looking to update the public as to how CV fiber was going. Well, let me ask the town manager a question because we're getting into a legal question here, I think. And the role of the moderator is not to respond to legal questions. So I guess what my question of the town manager is would be, can the town at a town meeting direct how ARPA funds are to be spent? Here's where it's fun. ARPA funds are town tax dollars. Once they were given to us and the select board about a year ago declared a revenue loss. We have to report to the federal government how they're spent, but you could pass a resolution today saying, let's assume everything passes on the warning that we've got $300,000 in ARPA funds left. You could pass a resolution today saying, we spent 300 grand on payroll last year. That's what we used it for over and done. ARPA funds are now they're just in our back pocket. Are the general government. And so if Linda can't receive town tax dollars, they're town tax dollars. They're under review of the town tax payers. It's a distinction without a difference, I think. Galosna. Do you have a followup, Roger? No, I don't. I have two, one for Mr. Moderator. Would you find it germane for Mr. Viennes here to call attention to the other discussion during the reports of town officers? Which is to say, he as moderator doesn't have to say, please stick around. But could you or Tom, when you're going over the budget say, please stick around for the other discussion item. Because I recognize and respect his point around the neutrality of the moderator. But if we as board members or our board chair or our manager is presenting, is there a appropriate way for them to acknowledge that folks can read and that their attention span might be less than two full sheets of paper? Let's say that the article on the floor is, I move that Waterbury changed the term of the town treasurer from a one year term to a three year term effective March 5th, 2024. Moved by Ms. Johnson, seconded by Mr. Klatt. Would anyone like to speak to the motion? Mr. Viennes' hands goes up. And he starts speaking about. What is my? What is my? What is my? What is my? What is my? What is my? What is my? I would have to rule them out of order. Oh, order. Yeah. Because you have to speak to the motion. Right. Yeah. But by the time I've ruled them out of the order, what's happened? The guy's message is, you know, that's happened before, too. Yeah. Yeah. But didn't say for a time before. But just bear in mind, and I think it's important to really understand what it is town meeting is all about. These are smart people. They arguably read what's in the town report. They try to understand what's going on. Sometimes the budgets are unintelligible, but sometimes they're not. They have questions. That's why they're, that's one of the reasons that they come to town meeting. And so I think you need to, you need to just think about every aspect of town meeting with the highest amount of respect for the vote is what I would say. Relax. Let things happen and hope for the best. Do you have quick questions? Want me to write a front porch forum post about the other business? Yeah. I mean, that wouldn't interfere in anything, right? Great suggestion. I think we can put an easel when you walk into town meeting and explaining why you need to stick around for other business. Yeah. I could go on the training. I think it's a great idea. Sure. I could go on the training post who has a lot of people, local people who listen and announce that. And then we'll say for town meeting in general, if that hasn't been done. Yeah. For most of the town meeting. But we're going to have a discussion of, you know, the format of town meeting. And it will at least get people, if you could, we have to have that in the other business discussion. So that may get some people to just come. You know, people need to. I think people are concerned. I've seen people. I know people in like Essex Junction and Bristol who have had changes to their, you know, you know, town meeting. You know, a lot of towns are fighting with that, this whole issue. And so we, as the Chris's point, we don't want to give this short trip. I think don't forget to excuse me for interrupting, but it wasn't that long ago when folks who were concerned, really concerned about what was going to happen to the village police department. And that town meeting, it was the first item after the election of the moderator so that people could come and vote and leave. Yeah. And if I remember correctly, there were, I don't know, 4,700 people at town meeting. It was one of the, by far, the best-attended town meetings. It was huge. Yeah. Yeah. The largest town meeting I can remember attending. And so, you know, if you, if it's something worthwhile, or if people perceive it as being worthwhile, they'll show up. But at this point we have a warrant, you know, so we have to live with the warrant. We have to live with what the warrant says. But the warrant is not going to be binding. And I think you need to, if you're going to post something on Front Porch Forum about the issue, I think out of fairness, you also need to tell them that it's not going to be binding. Yeah. Yes. Mm-hmm. Right. And I think that's, we all knew that. Yeah. That I'd begin with. Right. The preliminary steps to getting that question answered. Yeah. But you're the pros here. Some people who have been in town for maybe one or two years as the first or second or fifth town meeting, they might not remember that other business is not binding on the slide board. But we want to hear from people. It's just like no different than when we had the recreation plan or any of these other things. We have separate public meetings that you want to have, you know, input from people. And this is, we know it's not binding. But we at least want to get the conversation started on what the community really wants. And maybe this would be something for having some sort of a true public meeting maybe just on town meeting format. So Mike, I think Elizabeth had something she'd like to say or question. If I can. Sure. If I'm gone by that point. You want to come on down? Not really, but I will if I have to. Just for Zoom. But it's normal. It was just a comment. It's just so Danny can hear you on Zoom. Right. So I have some of the same concerns that Chris and I think Alyssa have mentioned about people being aware that this subject is coming up. Because I do think it's going to be very important for a lot of people that have made it a point to show up at town meeting each year. I know you know that. And while I certainly agree that people can read, at least most people hopefully that come can read there may be some that can. But when I read this other business discussion of town meeting day format and consider a consideration of alternatives, I wouldn't buy that if I hadn't been attending this meeting. These meetings know that that meant anything other than maybe we'll change, you know, the order of how things work at town meeting. I would have no idea the extent at which we're looking at changing or possibly changing. Right. So. Because I think it would be a real people would be really blindsided if they came to a meeting left a little early, learn there was a discussion that they would have wanted to be a part of. I think it would only reflect poorly on everybody. So. Elizabeth, would you end up with two ones? Yeah, I was just saying I think we hear that. I think I just wanted to state that because it is not binding, no binding decision will be made on the basis of what happens next Tuesday. So just to say, you know, like I hear you and I think our goal is collectively to have as many folks there as possible. But given that this has been warned as it is, I think we're talking about ways to try and increase engagement through Tom's post, through maybe messaging on the day of so that folks who do show up on the day of are encouraged to stay. I would also just say, I said, you should sit through all of town meeting. Anyway, if you're if you're able to get there at nine a.m. Get there and stay. I mean, that's part of this. My understanding is that we've discussed the fact that some people can't attend. That's what's totally a point. And some people get there and they have a limited amount of time they can be there and would feel really slighted again if they found out that something that was really, really important got sort of, you know, they had discussion. They weren't going to be a part of that. It is our meeting and it is important that people have a say in such an important topic. I heard Alyssa say a few weeks ago or maybe a month or so ago that this is something that, you know, she had great memories. I fond memories. I didn't understand exactly what was going on, but I knew how important it was to my family to attend the meetings to be there. And I think a lot of people feel that way and I think that that tradition is important. So I'm hoping that people understand that we're going to bring it up and what it means that we're really talking about rather than just a paper. Your point is very well made. Okay. So, yeah, I mean, I don't know who made the point here, but it's in the warning so we can't change it here. Right. I think Tom's idea, Danny's right. That's a great one. I think this is a start. It will get it in the forefront. I'm sure Alyssa's going to probably have it in the roundabout, you know, will be talked about and it'll probably be followed up with, you know, some sort of maybe a public meeting. Yeah. And just to, yeah, say, we've said it, but I think we kind of get lost in the weeds sometimes. Like, this is the first conversation. We will definitely need to have follow up conversations, whether it's, you know, additional meetings or surveys or Zoom calls. And then we have to have, you know, an actual meeting like we just saw in what Duxbury to actually make a decision. So just easing people's minds that, of course, we want people at town meeting to be part of the conversation, but it won't be the last time they get to have input and it takes, you know, specific planning ahead to have the meeting to make the decision. So lots of steps in between. Thanks, Danny. Well, I was just going to point out that I believe that Duxbury has made the decision to go to Australian ballot, but they also have an informational meeting where people can thoroughly discuss all these issues and have that same interaction and public discussion before people get to vote on it. And the advantage of having an Australian ballot is that more people are able to participate. In fact, many more people do participate, females. I was going to try and pivot us hard into brass tacks if it was OK and ask both the manager and the moderator to be hopefully what, having not been on the board previously at a town meeting, I understand generally there is language around the proposed motions and just what the process would be for us as a board to have that understand. Tom has a presentation. I don't know if Mr. Shopluck is going to have a presentation, but kind of what the more detailed layout and agenda beyond the warning is and how we get that finalized and understood by all of us before the session. We've got that language ready to go for articles 10 and 11. And it would, of course, change if someone successfully amended the budget. Newest language from prior years, but essentially refers to the sums for the different expenditure items.  I wasn't planning on a PowerPoint unless you want that. I was planning to walk people through the major points, highlighting the major items. That's how Bill usually used to do it. I think that's very appropriate. The one piece I just want to point out, I cannot speak at your town meeting unless authorized. Yes, sir. I'm a town resident. So there has to be, I understand, a vote. Correct. Yeah. So people could say, no, we don't want to hear from you. You'll have a copy of my proxy. And I'll go home, I guess. Normally what happens is when I know that someone is not a town resident, the moderator can act on unanimous consent. The way I would start off with is the town manager is not a resident of the municipality and would like to speak on a variety of different motions that come up. Is there any objection to the non-resident town manager being able to speak? And I would probably say something broad enough is that at the meeting, if one person objects, then we have to have a procedural vote to permit a non-resident to speak, which is a change of the rules, which requires a two-thirds vote. And you go through all that process. Count hands, do seven people call for a ballot. People call for a ballot. Karen's going to come with a whole bunch of slips of paper just in case. Because that can happen 20-some odd times. Probably won't, but I don't think it's averaged one a year the time that I've been moderated. But when it does come in, we all usually have one paper ballot at the meeting. So that's the way we would introduce the town manager.  And he'll introduce everybody. And I might say, at that point in time, that would be a fitting place for it, would be, now, the town manager who has just been introduced is not a resident of the town. Is there any objection to the town manager speaking on the various items that come up as they may come up out of the warnings to the meeting? And if there's no objection, then we've gotten that out of the way earlier. So we just have to do it once? Just depending on how broad you want to make it. We can do it for the whole meeting. Just assume to do it for the whole meeting. So I found in Carlos Files a warning from 2020 where the verbal motions are drafted and assigned which is what I was hoping that you all were, was an objective for this evening. I don't know who, maybe Jeff can speak to who drafted these. Is this something you would assist with? Carl and I used to work on them. OK. I don't know if you saw your email, but I emailed you today and asked if you'd send me a word copy of the warning. I did not, I'm so sorry. And then I can prepare the motions for everybody.  And it really doesn't matter. But what happens after somebody moves a motion is I typically will say if Chris is moving a motion, Mr. Vienz, would you like to speak to the motion? Sometimes he says yes, sometimes he says no. Mr. Klapp, would you like to speak to the motion? And you can just do something very cursory. You can go into detail. And it really makes no difference. Sometimes you want a little background on why, like for instance, why we're doing the three year term for town clerk, I think people are going to want to know not just it's there because we wanted to do that. There's some justification to do it. So if you want to just run down through and then when I do the motions, I'll add the names to them. I'm sorry, I didn't, you must have been Director 430, but I can definitely get you the word, Dr. Yeah, because that helps speed up the process. Yeah, I converted it just today. So now that we're on the motions, I talked with Tom the other day, last board of, well, not the last, because apparently there's been one prior, one since the last one that I was at, board of abatement meetings. Assessors, it was an assessor, right? Or sorry, listers. Yeah, listers. Over the years, my wife being town clerk, bookkeeper for 35 years, I've heard plenty of horror stories. I rate taxpayers who have missed the deadline witnessing it myself one day, sitting in here in the office signing orders. And then previous board of abatement meeting that I was at, a couple of people were in and discussions were heard and items were talked about. We had a bill shop book brought in a list of state statutes that could, items that could be grieved. Is that correct, Tom? Yeah. The end result is they will walk away with no change in the penalties and interest. And they were very upset at the people that made the judgment call. So much so that one of the two people reminded me of that night, the next time I drove by that person, by waving to me. I was upset by comments from another, so I actually went and visited that person. And I just said to him, I need some of your time after what happened the other night. And I explained to him that every year at town meeting, the article comes up to the taxpayers to set tax rates and penalties and interest. And the voters of Waterbury vote on that every year. They're the ones that set the rules in place. And then people like you elect people like me to uphold those rules. And for you to think that I'm responsible, have any way, shape, or form responsibility in the fact that, you know, you were put into predicament. You were in. You're upset at me.  And I told Tom that, I actually talked to him a little bit about, is that worth discussing at town meeting or should I just let it go? You know, to have people that you know, and this isn't the first time.  That was a couple of years before. We had no pardon. You know, we're just there to say these are the rules. I'm sorry. I don't see why you can't say that when the motion comes up. Whatever it is you want to move, that's on the article. Speak to the motion. Speak to the motion. That's about as germane as anything I can think of. Yeah, yeah. Well, is it the right thing to do, I guess? Is it worth doing? I'm asking the board. I think it is. I mean, because I've watched a couple of the staff get verbally abused by a person who in the same boat and that person explained, you know, you know how many pieces of property I have installed this, that, and the other thing. And he was getting to the point where I was signing orders one day and I almost went up to him and said to him, if you have so many pieces of property, then why isn't it buried in your head that you owe taxes every year? So Chris, no matter what you say that day, you're still only going to capture the people who are potentially Waterbury taxpayers, right? So that guy that day, he was a Waterbury taxpayer who obviously spends most of his time in Stowe. May or may not even attend the meeting. Correct. Wouldn't you be there for that discussion? I understood, but I'm sure it happens in other towns as well. Oh, I don't know. You know, we're not the only ones. It's just, I don't know. It was, it was, I wouldn't even call it upsetting because I got broad shoulders, I can take it, but it was irresponsible, maybe. That's, I don't know if that's a better word. Chris, would you like me to do a front porch forum post about Article 9 and explain that it's a binding legal article. So if this is voted in, people come to town hall or to the select board in their way for a payment, then our answer is we're sorry, but. We're holding the moment. I think that'd be a good thing, Alissa. Well, like Chris respond to. No, I just, yeah, I suppose that would be worthwhile. I just didn't want to rub people the wrong way, obviously, by bringing that up at a meeting, but yet I think it's very important that people run up every now and again. Every couple of years, people talk about it. And I'm happy to talk about it, you know, and I'll try to be as politically correct as that. You know, I can't, I just want to make the point that just what I said, you people, and I, so let me ask you this, if I did decide to talk about it, and again, I'd take suggestions from the board members, if I did talk about it, should it be prior to that article being voted on or after? No, you have to, discussion like that, once the motion is ready. All right, I want to speak to it. Right. And that when I will. You speak to the motion. Okay, just like we do here, you make a motion, it's seconded, then someone speaks to the motion. Alissa. I was just going to ask Tom and Karen quickly as staff, do you have any concerns about if we suddenly lost all of the revenue from, I guess in an ideal world, my thought is everyone pays their taxes on time, and it's the amount we need, but let's, I personally am leaning towards supporting, Chris being the one to introduce article nine, so then you could speak to it, and just recognizing that maybe if we bring it up, our well-educated and intelligent citizens might say, yeah, we shouldn't charge any interest in penalties, which personally I have no problem with, but I just want to acknowledge as a board, we're making that discussion probably easier than harder through this, which I'm personally willing to do, but just want us to be intentional about. Off the top of my head, it's about 50 grand. Yeah. If you don't have any catalyst to get your money of human charge interest in penalties. So you, which, and you could speak to that at the meeting, I guess that's my one, I think Chris making a point that like, we're setting this and then holding it to you. If you don't have any leverage as far as penalties and interest, you know, I won't, I don't even want to use that word for people, but to bring people to the table to pay their taxes, then it's legal action, right? And then it costs money. Then it's, I agree with everything you said, Alyssa, with the exception of I don't agree that we should not have interest in penalties. I think we should. Everyone knows that when their taxes are due as guilty as anyone, I wait until the end because I don't want to keep my money in the bank and I don't want to pay the town in advance. If they will give me a discount, I might consider doing it, but everyone knows they could pay a month ahead in advance so there's no question that, you know, that you're paid. That's people's personal preference on how they want to pay their taxes. Well, I mean, I guess my biggest problem is waiting to the 11th hour and then blaming somebody else for it. And it's in, to their defense, you know, the post office has bungled it many times. Been there, done that. So Chris on article nine, with all respect to all of us and the really healthy agenda we still have, I'm comfortable with Chris on nine. Do we feel okay with that? I totally agree. I'm writing Chris next to nine. We still need five, six, seven, eight and the whole rest of them, so let's get assigning. Do we want to start with, I guess? Article five. Right, five. I think Roger wanted to say something. No, I just, with Alyssa, let's move through the, Someone does have to nominate the moderator for an article one. I'll do it. Yeah. Everyone good with Jeff Kilvore? Absolutely. Yeah. Okay. He's done a great job. Just want to get that clear. Quick this way, are you running? This is my last year. I was wondering if it's going to have 20 a year. Yeah. Thank you for your service. Thank you. You're very welcome. It's been an absolute pleasure. I incorporate that into my social motion. I'd be glad to do article five because I have another talk with Karen about the whole change and I think I could speak well to that. Okay. Five minutes. Jeff, how do we go about recruiting another Jeff Kilvore? I think we have someone interested, at least one that was probably far superior to me. I can't imagine that. Done a great job over the years. He wants to ride around there's Mercedes and more. Duel tour. Anyone want to do article six? Who's doing that? Myself. Okay. Thanks. Others should probably step up here. I can do number six. So that's number six and number nine for me. I'll do seven. Seven. But I'm going to guess, I'm going to yield to Tom or others, right? Is that the whole Kate and Kamudal? We should. 10 is the budget. 10 is the big one. So seven should be boring. Excellent. So Alyssa is seven, eight. Do you think? Yeah, he won't be there. She won't be there. Come on. I'll be glad to take on you. This one was always awkward, right? Because it's your own comment. I was just going to say, can someone make that from the floor? Can I make a motion, Jeff? You can. Do you want me to make that one? I think that would be a problem. I appreciate that. I think that's awkward for all of you. Yes. Bill would almost always make the motion for eight, if I were correct. I mean, we can ask Bill to do it. Bill will be there. Before I can do it. Let's keep it in place. I assume Bill's going to be there. So, Karen? Bill will be there, but I can sign up. Karen. Okay, sure. Is it for Alyssa, Karen? No, it's the thing. I would say good, good. She's drawing boundaries, okay. Now we're on 10. So now we're on 10? How about two, three, and four? Do they get to... Those are Australian balance. Those are Australian balance. Australian balance, okay. I'll do 10. I would do 11. You're doing 11 right? 112. You know you have to read the whole thing. Ah. You know my class in Berlin's high school was loudest. Yeah, she'd be good at that. Right. Print's not that small. 13 is... Now, those I have noticed come from the floor. That often has, I recall, representatives from the floor. If I remember correctly, someone from the organization who could hopefully speak intelligently to... Or Steve Laspeak or Dave Loos. Yeah. Don't get me started. Steve made so many. Seven, eight. I would note we each have two, which is wonderful. Apologies, Danny, but of those present in person, we are each doing two with Karen, one is what I have in mind. Assuming the rest are four. Does someone want to? Should I reach out to these organizations and ask them to? Yes, I would definitely reach out because I think they should have a representative there, whether it be a resident or not. They should ideally have a resident who could speak somewhat intelligently to what their organization does. The only one that's my question is Green Mountain Transit Agency. I don't have... Steve often does that because I think he's our liaison to their board. So he's often... I used to be on the board. Yeah. I'll speak to it, if not, I love. I'm trying to remember. The bus this morning. Is it representatives of special articles from 13-20 that read the motion? Or is it just the foot? They will do their best at moving. And I will... Help them through it. Help them through it. I'm trying to think back. Of course, it's been, what, three years now since we had a meeting. It's been, it used to be all of them were from the floor. And then when the select board incorporated a certain number like all of Article 12 without sort of routinely... It was less than a thousand dollars to start then I think it went to 1500. Then that's when the board, somewhere from the board moved those, that group, but it's pretty much been the floor. Yeah. I thought the representatives from the floor came up and spoke to that. On Article 12? No, no, from 13 through. The board half, or somebody has to read the article, right? And then a representative will come up and speak. And I would typically ask that person who made the motion would you like to speak to the motion? And so if it's a representative, then you get a pretty good presentation. If it's not a representative, then they would say, well, if you turn to page 22 of the town report, that's where the report is. They're a good organization to do a lot of good things. This was clear. Brian Kravitz, Randall Street resident, he's central Vermont basic, excuse me, central Vermont basic education. So I will contact him and I will ask him if he can be in attendance to ask for Article 13, the funding and he will approach to the microphone and ask for that funding and say a few words, keep it three to five minutes. Is my understanding correctly what the objective is? No, my question and maybe I'm- I don't know that we've ever pleased out to people in the past. Oh, okay, so- No, we haven't. And I think that's what's created the problem, is then you get the Dave loses and the Steve Lodge speeches as, you know- I do remember representatives of these organizations coming up and speaking. But my question is maybe I've got an answer already but I just can't get it in my head. Doesn't somebody from the stage, meaning one of us, have to read each one of these? No. No. No, they were always read by people on the floor or do you read the notes I read? Yeah, I think for some reason I thought we did it, but no, maybe I- No, like Steve really can use- Rarely, okay. No, I think someone from the stage can, but I think it's much more appropriate for someone from the organization to make that motion. So where does Linda and, Rena- And the representatives, where are they gonna go? Where do they fit in? When the moon alters, Rena busy. They don't have a place on the morning. While is it? John Walter just sort of, when there's a lull or if you're progressing too quickly and you wanna- Slow it down. John is always ready-willing for me to call on him. So yeah, I was gonna say, you're the one that makes that decision and calls on him. We have, we have Teresa and Tom. Teresa and Tom. That long talk. John always is good for a few words. Linda- Well, we don't have a separate appropriation for the, his- Matt, we have the budget. They're in the budget. They're in the budget. There are some, there's the Public Service Award, Keith Wallace Award. That's in there. Occasionally the governor comes and we let him speak. So you're, so there's no assignment on my part to tell Linda, for example, when she'll be called upon to give her update on CV Fiber. Are you, do you want me to call on her and ask to give an update on CV Fiber? Ask me that question differently. Would you be willing to- Linda would like five minutes to give the community an update on CV Fiber. Would that be like before other business? Maybe that's a spot. I try to work them in. Depends on how quickly people leave. We try to work people in to commercial break. So I guess she will need that. She will be in attendance. I told her she won't have the time. So she won't. It'll be when you call on her. Now what about the Guadabra Band? I have not heard from them. I have not heard from them. They are here for 800. No, no, no, I mean- Oh, for a while. They're playing before the meeting. No one has contacted me to ask me if they want, if they can do that. Is it my responsibility to ask them to do it? I don't know how they- Maybe they're not even aware that we're having a down meeting. I don't know how they will have a contact. Don't tell me. Well, they find me when they want money. Yeah. There we go. They found me just to find that. I mean, I wasn't- When the first group. It was described to me as lovely as it was. It was incredibly difficult because it came at a time when there was a lot of people entering and people were trying to vote and it made the checklist very challenging. So there's not a lot of reason for me to sort of compel me to go seek that out. And no one from their organization has contacted me to ask me if they can perform. They might show up, I suppose, I don't know. If the board wants me to reach out to them, I might have a point of contact. I can do that. I didn't know how that's been done in the past. Is that the Rotary Club, by any chance? What? No, the Water Break Band. Are they associated with the Rotary Club? I don't know. No, not at all. No, they have their own organization. I would say let us know if you're here, but otherwise. Okay. We'd be welcome to have them play before the start if they should they wish. But I didn't know the protocol how if they're contact- I figured they'd just contact us to, you know. I assume that as well, but we're, you know, a little more than a week out and no one's got an touch with me to ask me what to do. COVID changed a lot. They're probably practicing tonight. That's right. For the big occasion. Mike, did you want to bring up that thing about the? Well, I know if we didn't want to keep it. It's up to you. It was sort of your initiative. Yeah. Bring it up. I don't think anyone would object to it. We had a group in the wassailing session of Winterfest in their competition. And one group did this song for basically Bill and Carla. Anyone who was there who saw that. What was the name of the song? It was to the tune of Fire. And the whole play was about like, where's Bill? Where's Carla? Oh, haven't you heard? They've retired. Hired. And then we have Tom who's hired. It was very well received at Winterfest. I think it would be a nice trip. Winning song for the girl friend to sing. No, no. If you really want to have a low turnout, we want to have the band What was the name of the band? It's called Grindelwald and the Deutsche Bears. I think Bill would love it. I think Carla would love it. I know Tom. Oh my God. I just think it would be a nice little tribute Bill and Carla have retired. And it'd be a very, it's a two minute thing. It's not very long. Or fit it in. Will you confirm if they're attending one of you? Well, that's what I would say. Having never heard of this group, I can't invite them. I've been speaking with Roger and because he was going to be in touch with them. Yeah. If we want them, I can reach out and let you know within two days whether they're going to be available to pull it off. I think a number of the members will be there. Sorry. I'm amenable to fitting it in if our moderator can fit it in. Yeah, it's a three minutes. Yeah, two, three minutes thing. It's very, very quick. Sounds great. And I think they'll be well received. Can't wait. Nice for the two retirees. Now it's not a secret. Okay. Anything else? We've went through the entire, how do we want to bring up in other business? Who wants to frame that? I'll be right. I was going to ask you, but I like volunteers. I think you would be. I thought you would. That's not what you. That's not part of your preview, Jeff. To say, is there any other business? Well, what I would normally say is we have now reached the last article of the warning. And under this warning, how may take no action which binds the select board? And is there anyone that would like to come to a microphone and say something? Mr. Moderator. That's where we would start. Usually we get four or five different people who make a public something or other. I will plan to write out because this is one, as we've talked about, that has some loaded implications. I will plan to write out what I will say, which I will just send you all for information. And if you have concerns, you can respond directly to me individually. Alyssa, I know it may not be possible, but I'd love to see it if you do have it done before the end of the week and or if you need some help or get stuck, let me know. I'm happy to help. End of the week, Danny? Yeah, that would be great. And I'll catch you in a second. Mike, maybe Danny could give you some language. Just I want to make sure we recognize Danny under her contributions on the board, though we know there's extenuating circumstances. So maybe she can just help you with how we want to phrase that. Right at the top of the introduction. The total, the total, just make sure it's comfortable. I'm not going to go into the specifics, but just that due to some health reasons. At the end of the week, thanks all. Right. And Jeff, are you going to, when you get this into word format, are you going to write exactly what I should say for Article One, or do I need to come up? We'll get that all put together. Okay. So you'll get the whole shoot a match for everyone, get it for all the board members, and if... I think maybe what I'll do is I'll get it to either Karen or Tom, because they'll have some numbers to put in, some dates to put in, go from there. Yep. Perfect. Well, that's it.  I think that's it. I know the meeting is at nine, and I'm planning to be semi-early, but... I think eight, fine. I don't think you'll see that many people there. I know, but like these meetings, I like to be there early and get ready. We should be there early for three people. What? He said, you don't see very many people there. I thought you'll see me there. I know, you can vote before. Do you need help filling up anything, or do you want to do something? I was setting up on Monday, setting up Monday afternoon, so if anybody's around three o'clock, you can certainly come. And then tear down on Tuesday night, after seven, that's big fun to be had as well, so.  Now you've made arrangements for PA system? No, I realized tonight I was going to need those microphones. I do have a contact at the school, Brad Grisham, who's done this many times with Carla, so I'm sure you can facilitate that for us. I'll reject it now. And is any part of this being either videoed or streamed? Is not being live streamed, although Orca did offer, I found that to be confusing, because you can't participate from elsewhere, so I declined the live stream. I invited them to tape it if they want it, but no one confirmed. I don't know the name of the fellow that reached out to me. Okay, so. Is there anyone else that needs to be, that we haven't mentioned, recognized, or anything that should be brought up at the town meeting that we haven't already discussed? Any other business? There be. So, are we gonna recognize Steve who's retiring? Should, I don't know where that kind of, again, where that goes. This moderate? Other business? Okay. Other business, okay. I'll be glad to. You'd be glad to speak to that. Yeah, I'll speak to that. Okay, great. Do we need to, I assume we don't need to do any more. He's on the job now, two months, you know. I don't think so. A brief in your introduction, opening, to set the stage. In the introduction of the people, and we wish to welcome, you know, Tom Likes, and stuff like that. Give your home phone number in here. All your personal interventions, okay. He'll get me back. Let's get him home tonight before we give out his phone number. Come on. He'll get me back as an elbow officer. Okay. What's the sense of giving out his home phone number? He's never there. I think we're, unless you have any other questions, Jeff, I think we're good. Thank you. Thank you very much. Thank you for your service. Good meeting, thank you. And we hope that your replacement will live up to your. Oh, I'm sure. Commendation. I'm sure it will. Thanks. Okay. Thank you, Jeff. The next item is on the tobacco licenses for Brockton Corporation Shaw's, Westco Shell Station and Cumberland Farms, AGS, Vermont Village Market, RG Blake Enterprises, Mobile Station, Tobacco Substitute Endorsement, Brockton Corporation Shaw's, Westco Incorporated, Shell Station and Cumberland Farms, RG Blake Enterprises, Mobile Station. What this has come about is, it's been determined that we've been somewhat derelict in our duties that we're supposed to, just like we do on the Consent Agenda item, we do liquor licenses, we're supposed to do tobacco licenses as well. And we have, what? And Yolene, do we have to do this? Yep. And I think it's just a requirement. We haven't done it. We've been advised by, that we should do it and that's why it's here. I wondered why that was pulled out of the Consent Agenda items. Yeah. Well, because it's now gonna become a Consent Agenda item. So, any discussion on the tobacco licenses? It's more, I don't think, from discussions that I've had in both liquor licenses and tobacco licenses, really the only reason for that, I think it's ever been that one has been denied. It's usually for violations, mostly sales to underage people. And it might not be the first occurrence, you know, any of these businesses can't make one mistake, but it's usually for multiple, you know, occurrences of violations. Well, aren't they all already overseen by a state body? Right, liquor control. Liquor control, it's up to them to administer the fines and that sort of thing, I would expect. Right. But we have to still do kind of like we do on the Consent Agenda approve those. It's a municipal function. Roger? Move that we approve all the tobacco licenses listed here. Thank you. Motion in a second. Any further discussion? If not, all in favor say aye. Aye. Any opposed? Any abstentions? Motion passes. Next item is resolution in support of H82 regarding the former Stanley Wasson Hall site. Thank you. And I'm not sure if I emailed this out Friday or not, but it's in your packet and I did send it to Danny a little bit ago. So I was in front of the State House about Stanley Wasson Hall, although that State Representative was introduced. Thought overall was positive. The Department of Building and General Services at the state level essentially owns and manages the property and they're not opposed to the transfer. Not opposed to the transfer? Transfer of the site to the town. I think that means a lot because if they run into the committee meeting and said, well, we want to use this for XYZ in the future, I think the committee probably will listen to their own staff. The state has, I don't know if it's a law or a rule, but they have a history of transferring property at fair market value and that makes a certain amount of sense it's owned by everyone. Everyone should get the revenue and no one should get a break per se. So their number was $400,000, but they also made it clear that the legislature can overrule that and can transfer it to the town for less. Even at $400,000, I think that it's a really fair price given it's, depending how you draw the line, two and a quarter, two and a half acres. And the bill is an option. It's not a transfer, it's an option. So they've talked about some contingencies that would be in the bill, which would be conceivably a time stamp that we'd have to act on it and some requirement that we're using it for the intended purpose. In talking to our zoning folks, our general rule for that area is you can put 30 units in a building per acre. So two and a half acres would be 75 units. Again, you might draw the line a little smaller, but you could in theory put 75 housing units on that site. What I said in my testimony was based on some conversations with people on the select board, now there's some support for down street style projects, like affordable housing, but there's also some support for market rate housing. It's not a 50 acre site, so you're on the late bit of stuff, divided in half, two developers in the same site. But I made it clear to the committee that conversations with the select board, it seems to be general support for housing at that site. And one of their questions was, okay, has the select board taken any formal action? And I said, well, EFUD took a formal action in the town, took a formal action by putting funding for down street in the budget to show some support for affordable housing. But on this site, they have not, you've not taken formal action to support it. So they're gonna have me back for some testimony at a future meeting. And I'm hoping then you're interested in taking formal action and signing the resolution. So again, it's essentially a non binding bill would give us a right or first refusal on that property. And I would tell you at $400,000, if the town exercised that right and had the option, I think our job would be to recover that $400,000 with a development agreement. And I think we could do that. Have you had that, I'm sorry, have you had that discussion with down street? A little bit, yeah. And having one for the right or right. They find that some of money, something that they could have thought they could afford. Down street, there's other developers. I've not had any detailed conversation with down street about whether or not they can do a mix of housing affordable and market rate. Right. They can. They can't, you said? They can. I know I used to be on the board and they're able to do a mixed, mixed housing. There's nothing. They usually will have a percent that will be required to be of affordable housing. How would you fix, how would you fit market rehousing on a lot like that with like a condominium unit or something? No, just have, you know, apartment rentals. Oh, so you're saying market rate complex. Market rate apartments, right? I see. Not so much for sale. I'm thinking when you say market rate housing, I'm thinking you're talking about residential housing. You're thinking of condos, single owned PVDs, something of that nature. No, it would be, it'd be all apartments. Some of percent, usually they would sell tax credits and a percent of the building or buildings would have to be geared to meeting their tax credit requirements. So I want to touch base a little bit on our goal here as this affordable housing seems to come to the forefront. One of the major, you can correct me if I'm wrong, but from my perception, one of the major goals here is to provide workforce housing for the businesses and employers and whatnot. I don't know how fast 51 South Main is moving. As I had asked the gal there, I forget her name from Downstreet, I kind of wanted her to repeat it again the other night about the inability to specifically require workforce, you know, rentals. That isn't, they can't do that and I get it. So I don't want to end up, go ahead, Melissa. No, keep going. I don't want to end up. I know we're having a problem with affordable housing in general, but I don't want to end up cutting ourselves short by not providing what seems to be the precedent of the workforce portion of that effort. If there's someone in Roger and I, if there's something that we can do to kind of direct it in that direction, Melissa. Well, I guess two questions. So one, Tom, is the goal to get this committee ASAP? We signed this tonight or did you just say that you're proposing we wait on this resolution until you testify again? I'm proposing sign it before I testify. I would just say I support that and that I think I did sit in on the testimony. I work in Montpelier, so it was fun to be able to sneak over and sit in. And my bottom line is I think it's, I mean, as outlined in a lot of where as is, I think it's a good idea to put housing here. I really hear the thing of the mix of what cost and income level and affordability is to be worked out. And I think in terms of this resolution, Tom did a really good addressing it, recognizing that we, I mean, again, I support one, we don't have all those answers yet. We just don't like the, I felt like the committee was looking or like Tom just outlined, like does the town support this and did they support housing there? And at least from what I sit in on 51 South Main Street recognizing that was a really different project, actually the comment I most often heard is, why not Stanley Watson? There's so much space over there and that's where we should. So I feel like I felt sitting in that room like I would say, yes, I think there's community support. I think these questions around what that breakdown of rents and ownership still need to be worked out. So I thought Tom did a really nice job saying the like sec, the last whereas is a commitment to engage with the community to ensure the site is utilized for housing in a manner that has broad support. And that's really careful language because it's not unanimous support. I think we're all kidding ourselves if we think every community member is gonna be through the roof about this. But all the whereas is above it is about like it is dire. And since this came out, VHFA came up with like our median house price and I'll pull up my table. I pulled them out during a meeting and from 2017 to, you know, it's just gone through the roof. But I think that engagement around like what are affordable rents who can live here? Is it a private developer? Is it down street? I think acknowledging that's a big, messy question that still needs to be worked out doesn't preclude supporting this resolution. In my mind, this resolution says we think the highest and best use of this land is putting housing and candidly a lot of housing there because we really need housing and this is not building up in the hills. This is not impacting our natural environment. I know we just had a messy town proposal for apartments in a different location but this is a developed location where we think housing is really good. The state isn't doing anything with it. They're potentially giving us the option to take it and I think that's a huge opportunity and I think this gives us the flexibility to be able to have those conversations. I think those are gonna be nuanced and messy and complex conversations about subdivision and ownership but I think the bottom line is that this resolution is really important and does give us that flexibility. So I'm glad you brought that up because I didn't wanna get locked into something that handcuffed us to maybe the priority directive that the people are most concerned about. I think, and it's saying it's housing and I think that was what Tom conveyed. It's like this, it could be permitted for this many housing units. They asked about water sewer, yet it's served by water sewer, yet that would be a good fit but said the mix of workforce versus affordable has not been worked out yet is not finalized. That's right, Drew. I just wanted to let people know that I received an email from one of our constituents, Mike Griffiths, who lives directly across the street from this facility on Park Road and he wanted to know what was going on. I had mentioned to him earlier, back when the vote was being taken on 51 South Main, that we were also looking at that site as a potential site for affordable housing. And I just said, first of all, I invited him to come here tonight if he was available so he could find out more about it. He's obviously a budding landowner and concerned. His preference would be that it be maintained as an open space and I said, yeah, I understand that and I sympathize with you. I sort of also like the idea of that big open field but the truth is we need a lot of affordable housing here. It was a tremendous demand and you've got a site that's served by water and sewer and because the state complex is not being used to its full extent, water and sewer systems are operating at well under capacity and so there are a whole bunch of very compelling reasons why that would be a great site for housing and I sympathize with you. I also have impacted in part as a landowner right near 51 South Main. I've got the fire station, which was rebuilt right in my backyard but that's one of the things that I understand as being a village resident that that's gonna be my way of life it's gonna be that we're gonna continue to move forward and I think that's a good thing for the town. It's all about population growth. Yeah, exactly. And I actually support the growth of Wadbury. I think we gotta do it with our eyes open and make some good planning around it but I think it's a good thing for the town to continue to grow. Helps our schools, helps our economy, helps keep the tax base lower. So I'm going to move that we support this resolution. Is there a second? Second. I did just wanna make one comment. I know to address your concern about workforce and affordable housing, those two issues are really the same because affordable housing, people don't realize they agree sometimes affordable housing is low income housing. The numbers that a lot of times people could get into some of these affordable housing projects are fairly generous. Something that an average run-of-the-mill workforce person will be able to afford those apartments. We have even several of those right on our board and it doesn't preclude people and even some of the market rate housing may be available for some of the fulfilling different employers workforce needs. So I think, I just think we need more housing in this community and I think this will help and I don't say, the only thing I'm a little bit concerned about is I know with the $400,000 number, I know was that number developed based upon before deacon, before? That's their current number. That's their current number. Okay, because I know in discussions we have had, you talked about $200,000 number too. There was a number of $300,000, but that came about when it was offered to the town for the new municipal office eight or 10 years ago. What I'd tell you is if this bill passes, it's July until it's signed. Right. And then we're gonna have a long period of time to do evaluations. So what I'd tell you is there's a lot of experts in this field that could help us along the way. That's what attorneys in commercial real estate are for, so we can put together a development agreement here and I think we could get that done in time and have the basics and not have the basics, but have that completed before we'd execute a purchase so you know what you're getting into beforehand. And that could look, that could be a fairly simple transfer. One thing I said to the committee is it could be that the town doesn't have to work that hard because we have an entity that does this in our town already and so maybe it's a fairly simple transfer, but it could be something more complex where the town owns a site during the development process and there's some investment along the way that we get back at the end. It just depends on the ultimate model that's gonna benefit us both in the end. If you're speaking in reference to what I talked about earlier tonight, a possible tiff. Not a tiff for this, no, not a tiff. You don't say it wouldn't be that's not a word I'm looking for and that's not, it doesn't reach the level of the tiff. No, tiffs, it's a whole separate legislative process. There's a bill in front of the legislature where you could do a tiff on a per site, per project basis, but if you're not familiar with a tiff, basically you, any tiff has to be approved by the legislature to answer tax, increment financing, I've dealt with it a lot in the past. The short version is if your tiff is approved, you can invest in public improvements and bond for those improvements and you can collect the education taxes, 75% of the education taxes, grantless growth directly in your tiff district. But in this case, there's limited public improvements, the water and sores there, there's a road there to ready site, that's what makes it, I think, attractive. So the town's not gonna be on the hook for a lot of investment up front. My only concern is that at this economic seminar that I went to, they did give an example, I believe it was in St. Albans where they move forward with a project up there and midway through the economy went and the whole thing imploded in the town, got hurt pretty bad. Yeah, in this case, I think we're just looking at a fairly simple agreement where we, I think the goal is to, in an ideal world, we'd own the property and when you own the property, then you can determine your fate. You can do a lot when you have site control, but without site control, presumably the state's gonna transfer it to whoever else, we don't know. With site control, we can determine everything. Well, would we have some expenses? Sure, we'd have some legal fees, we'd have some architectural fees, we'd wanna, I think, talk to the community and talk about a design. So would there be some direct town investment? Without a doubt, I think the goal would be to recover it on the back end of the sale. Okay, so yeah, well, I guess that's the part that I misunderstood. When you said on the back end, that's what was gonna be my question, you mean, like the immediate, almost the immediate back end. Not years down the road. Or were you thinking? That'd be the goal. I mean, if I had my truck in an ideal world, we'd get the property, we'd work with some experts and correct the development agreement, whether that's downstream or some other entity, and we'd make an extra buck and put it into a... Investment. Put it into an investment fund and maybe have a special reserve for the future, for housing issues. Yeah. Okay, we have a motion to second a further discussion. If not, all in favor, say aye. Aye. Aye. Any opposed? Any abstentions? Motion passes. And Robert, if you wanna sign your vision, pass it around, that way I'll have it. I can work with Danny if she's able to sign it. Next item on the agenda is discussion and review of initial draft of select board goals. No, VCDP. Oh, sorry. That's it. I is a VCDP grant application related to 51 South Main Street. Yes, thank you, Karen. I wanted to get this on the agenda now because I've got to formally start the process. A VCDP is Vermont Community Development Program. Working with Down Street on a VCDP grant for $500,000 for 51 South Main. How much? 500,000. So in essence, Down Street is doing about 99% of the work here but this is a pass-through for the town. So in short, these funds would be used to pay direct development expenses Down Street would manage all that. Down Street would pay the bills directly and then we would draw down the VCDP funds and reimburse Down Street. So we're not out on a cash basis, we're not exposed. Aside from a little bit of my time and maybe whoever's sitting and sees Steve Watchby's share of time, it's not town expense here. No real risk that I see it. Down Street would need to come before you at your March 20th meeting. And I know that's generally pretty busy meeting because it's your organizational meeting but as part of this application process, we need to have a public hearing.  There'd be a public hearing and a formal resolution need to pass. But wanted to get this on the agenda now just because we need to get the grant written because it's due not long after that meeting. Well, and just to state for information, correct me if I'm wrong, the requirement of these funds is they have to go through the town. We're not just doing it because it's fun and Hunky Dory, the requirement of the federal CDBG funds is that they go to the municipalities. So I appreciate hearing that. It's not even a cash basis concern. I completely support it. And there's no match requirements. No match requirements, okay. Well, I think there probably is, but Down Street is 10 or 20%. No match requirements in the part of the town. Both. They're paying it for us. Okay. I move we authorize Tom to move forward with the VCDB grant application for 51 South Main. Second. We have a motion and a second. Any further discussion? If not all in favor say aye. Aye. Aye. Any opposed? Any abstentions? The motion carries. Now discussion and review of initial draft of select board goals. It is the temperature is dropping. Yeah. Heat's not working well. You'll see that invoice soon enough. What was that? For the heating system repair. What's that? You'll see an invoice soon. It comes. Yeah. That's giving a heat part of your life. We'll talk about that later. Shaking, trying to take notes. Tom, do you want to leave this off on that? Sure. So this is I think conversation number one, although hopefully we don't need to spend too many meetings on it. Took what folks gave me and tried to amalgamate the goals into some sort of consolidated document for conversation. And I think take it from there. The my thought process again is it's good for me to have this list to work off of. I didn't print them. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. Do you want to make your run on some copies? I'll pull it up. Yeah. Yeah. That would be helpful, yeah? Yeah. Yeah, you can look at it on the phone. Come right back. So I was going to ask, you did put this together. You did a great job. Yeah. And we can amend that, take different ideas, add to it. But my thought was to essentially have a document we could review, try to assign some completion dates where we can. Some items are a little more ongoing. And then I think try to have maybe a semi-annual review of pull it up every six months and say, here's what we've done. Here's what we need to add to it. And treat it as a living, breathing document. Maybe there's a bit of a selfish motivation because it makes my life a little bit easier to be able to look at it and say, here's what I need to focus on, here's what's due. There's a lot there. Yeah, that's it. My reaction is it's great and we can't prioritize all of it because it's more than two pages. That's my big concern is how much is there. And it's nice to have all these goals, but I don't know how much, maybe in a five-year plan, I can see this is more applicable. I can tell you when I read it, I said, boy, you didn't select board member, let alone the town manager, just that job just got a lot tougher, you know? That's good. That's the point, I think. Keep everybody on their toes. So you're saying timeline and potentially maybe some of those timelines could be, like is it a, do we pick a top priority per category or a top five overall or just give everything a timeline? Some of them are more than a year. Karen, put some off. I mean, we can go through these and I think some of them are fairly easy to execute. Yeah. It's just a matter of if you have other than your genes. I'm probably going to cheat into mine because I can look at this. I'm going to say it was a bit of a delay. It's actually a little cakey, so some of them might not be safe for me. Just check if you have three pages. I'll take one if you don't need one. But do you need one? Should we want to go for it? Do we want to go for it subtitled by subtitled? How, if we feel happy to do that. Yeah, I think you can hit it real quick. Yeah. If we've got any questions, we can grab it and stop it. And to Chris's point about getting some of these things done, on the second page, there's a bullet and Alyssa referred me to this. Bristol has a essentially a one year forward calendar that's agendas. And so what I like about that is this concept about taking advantage of ArtsFest and QID or other events to have the community conversation that you've raised. Simple way to address that is to say, all right, March 20th is your organizational meeting but maybe in April we should put that on the agenda and start and devote a half an hour to it. So I'd like we're re-inferring QID or something like that. So I like that Bristol calendar where they have certain things scheduled months in advance. So they all know, here's deadlines, here's what we've got to be prepared for. And they've also got things on their calendar that are administrative that are almost easy to forget but some of those resolutions you've got to pass every year. And so I like that concept in general. But in some of these you can take a straw poll and say, no, we don't want to do this. Well, I think community outreach is really important. I, you know, I for one, I noted a lot of times I think it's important to select, you know, we can all be at every meeting in town and stuff like that. But I think it's important, you know, for us to be there, even some of just the fun events, you know, and QID, the ArtsFest and stuff like that.  I know it was like WDV's 90th anniversary which was a pretty substantial activity.  More than years actually. Yeah. Bristol does a really great job putting them at the bottom of their agendas too. Shout out to Valerie who's there, town administrator and worked here very briefly. But they have a literally like upcoming events that may be of interest, which is both our meeting, every DRB meeting, every planning commission and relevant community events. I'm just going to be really candid. I don't know that I have the capacity tonight to. Right. I didn't come prepared to this meeting to be able to give top ones. And I feel like I'm feeling a little stressed about how much is still on the agenda and wanting to give Tom really good feedback. But also wanting to make sure there's space here for board members to contribute on goals. So I'm just wondering if there's a strategy around that. I think that's a good, I was very much with you. I think this was, I think for comment, I think we all, if we had something that anyone thought there's something that's really not right, maybe tonight was something where people would say that. But I think we should dwell on that and maybe give some more comments for the discussion. Because really it's going to be the next board's goals. We don't know if we're all going to be here. That's a good point. So I thought it was well thought out. It's in depth and covers a lot. It's very inclusive. I can hit on a couple of quick things if that would be helpful. Sure. Under community outreach, I've started sending to you all the weekly updates. Yeah. Just looking at that, I think the month I could do, I could do without spending hours on it. I think I could do a monthly front porch farm update. Sort of the highlights of the weeklies and amalgamated a bit. Some of those things are pretty internal and pretty small. So I think monthly might be appropriate. And I'm happy to do that if you want that. I appreciate that. Oh, sorry. I appreciate that, Tom and I, but I also, and I wonder if it needs to be you. I think a lot of what you're doing and taking time to do is super efficient and helpful. On this one, I wonder, I hate to sign up for something, but if it's coming from the select board, I think people often say to us, like Roger, I received that same email, like, oh, I don't like surprises. It's nothing's a surprise. It's on agendas. It's all public, et cetera. But, and also people don't necessarily have the capacity to go out of their way to look for stuff. So if we just put something on monthly from the board that are bullet points, here's what we talked about last month. It could come from the minutes. Here's how to get the minutes. And here's how to check the agendas for next month. Tom and Teresa do a huge update and it's great, but I don't necessarily think we have to do something like that. Just something proactive. Here's what happened last month. Don't forget, here's when the meetings are, and that might go a long way to make people feel like they're not getting blindsided by something on an agenda, whether that's the case or not. I don't know if other people agree, but I just feel like maybe that's not the best use of your time and either our secretary next board, you know, if that's a great job for a secretary or I mean, it's something I enjoy doing. I won't have the capacity for the next month or so, but it's something I would enjoy doing in the future. Is your goal, and I don't, I think that's a good idea, Danny, but I'm wondering, was your goal to inform the community members of things that have kind of happened internally in the municipality, which we don't really have, the board doesn't really have control over. I mean, you're sending us weekly managers items, which kind of almost is a version of what you're talking about, right? My goal is to have you tell me what you want. I don't have an agenda here. Some folks said they want, you know, more communication to the public. This was an idea. All right. I support it. I really hear you, Danny. I'm gonna be candid. I personally like had the intention to be Alyssa who loves local government and sends all the exciting updates of what I'm doing on select board. And just know I personally have not had that capacity. So I think if Tom is willing to assist and support, I think maybe it is important for a board to think about what are board initiatives and prerogatives and should there be board communication for those? But I think Tom's point about like one, I think there are things in the weekly report that certainly don't rise to like general public interest around the latest and greatest internal machinations. But I think like, you know, I think we have a really healthy agenda tonight. You know, this month the select board worked or the town or we can think about messaging, but I think hitting the high points around like prepping for a town meeting. Here's all about town meeting. And by the way, some stuff happening about housing. Again, I hear you, but I think some, I think if Tom is willing to spend a reasonable amount of time and thus far you've shown only outstanding time management to make it a little more bite size. I personally think that's awesome. I agree with what everyone has said. The only comment I would make, you just mentioned front porch forum. A lot of people don't aren't on front. I would have that both on front porch and what a very roundabout. I think, you know, between the, I don't know what other vehicles there are. The town website, which everyone can access for free. But I don't know how many people really look at the town website. Sorry to be a naysayer, but there were a percent of people who do look at the town website, but I don't think it's a huge amount. So I just want to tell Danny, I understand your concern, because I already said at the last meeting that I told him not to take on so much that he burns himself out. Yeah. Because we want him around for a while. So if he's within himself okay with it, then I think we probably are too. He'll tell us if he's in over his head, I think. Roger. Yeah, I also think it's a good idea. I think among other things, it'll help create a better awareness of who Tom is and what he's doing with the community. Help him, you know, get off on the right foot with the folks and whether it has to be monthly, I would say, you know, like, let's start out, see how that looks. Maybe it's every other month, but you'll find the right level. Yeah. Good point, Roger. Then Lisa, did you have your hand up? I know it was, yeah. On Zoom, Skyway on it. Oh, Skyway on it. Hi, folks. Sorry, I'm just zooming in tonight. Tom, I would love to see the weekly or monthly or however often the reports are. I mean, I'm trying to put select board stories out. You know, it may not be every meeting, I try to combine things, you know, but if people are reading the stuff that I'm putting out, I'm trying to keep up with what the board is doing too. In the stories, we've got a newsletter every week. And so, you know, this is public information and I would be happy to, you know, incorporate that into the reporting that I'm doing and that I'm pulling things to do stories to get into more detail about and that sort of thing and to try to get people to, you know, have that be sort of a habit for them to know where to look for information. And I think the website, I mean, if you're going to be doing this sort of like, you know, from the town manager's office kind of column or something, you know, we could be running that or at the very least, like someone just said, I think it was Alyssa said, you know, the town website could easily just have those there as PDFs that people could know, you know, there's a page for the town clerk. There's, I think there's a page for the town manager, isn't there? You could have, you can put those there too. So I think it's just a matter of letting people know where the information is that they can, you know, look for it. But anyway, to whatever extent you're doing this, if you could include me on the distribution, that would be great. Over in Duxbury, by the way, they started as something like that. Their select board started this last summer where they started like a town listserv. It's just one way communication. They do a monthly email from the select board that goes out. You sign up and you know, it's about, I think they've got only about two or 300 people on it right now, but they do a monthly email. And then those emails are also on their town website for anybody who wants to go, if they don't get them in their inbox or they miss them, they can find them there. Similar kind of idea. Thank you. So anyway. Thanks. Yep. What was that, Roger? Their volunteer board service, just a couple of things to think about. Maybe good things to discuss at your organizational meetings. So there's, I think there's some confusion internally about whose job it is to recruit for volunteer boards. You know, there's a vacancy on the planning commission. Does Steve Klotz Beach go and try to advertise for that? I know you appoint, but from a staff perspective, it seems like there's a bit of a mix. So just clarifying that might be helpful. And then something a couple of people said to me is this idea of select board liaisons for committees might also be useful. I'm not proposing that you attend every committee meeting, but it might be nice from a committee member's perspective to have a point of contact. Good idea. And I just had a number of things here and just like talking to the boards and committees more regularly. Again, I'm a planning junkie, so I go to the planning commission all the time, but understanding what they're doing and what eventually is gonna make their way onto our plate to in that case, adopt zoning regulations or do whatever conservation commission does. But I think I have tried to attend some of the meetings, but having that be more regularly or maybe present to us. I agree with you, because I try to attend meetings, but it's kind of more happenstance if there's a topic of interest. I'll attend, but I don't think it's a bad idea to have some sort of regular participation at the various committees. But I think ultimately the different commissions have a responsibility to recruit. They know their subject matter. They hopefully know who's good people in the community that might be interested. If they need help from the board, I'm sure if they would have any suggestions, I'm sure we would. I think when it comes to, depends upon the commission and stuff like that as to who we know that's good, but I think the committees themselves know the best. Who else want to pay attention to? It's not said maybe very directly, but sort of along the lines of the committees that something I talked about with a number of folks internally is that sometimes there's unclear understandings about what's just done, what's a written role, what's just the way it's always been done. And so there's some desire to sometimes clarify that and to look at what we've always done and say, well, do we need to do that? I think a great example is grants. Do we need your approval? Should we need your approval to apply for a grant? If it's Waterbury Reservoir, if the grant application requires it, that's one thing. But if it doesn't, if it's something we've always done and it's passed through funding, maybe it's a consent agenda item and you just approve it because there's not much to talk about. Maybe if it's a half million dollars or something to talk about. So just, I think there's some desire amongst folks to try to weigh through some of those issues. Streamline cutting's a little bit better. But yeah, if we need more time and we're behind this, that's fine. I just wanted to hit a few highlights, I think. So maybe we should all then re-comment on this discussion where we feel, where each one of the board members feels that where your time and where our time should be spent. Re-comment and maybe rank a little bit. Right. I mean, I like to, you know, obviously the town finances that the development of long-term capital plan and paved roads. And I mean, that's where I come in. From my perspective, as far as being able to shed some light on some things that I'd like to see change and happen moving forward to save ourselves some money and create some better circumstances in our infrastructure, for longer lasting. I know on your town operations, you mentioned adopt a modern personnel. I know we have just kind of discussed that. I know you have that kind of in the progress. Do you know about what kind of time frame we're looking at, you know, a HR policy? The process I'd like to follow is I'd like to have a draft, the select board, just an internal draft. And I'll have that by the end of the week. Okay. And the reason I want that to internally is I'm going to propose some changes that, you know, they're changes and some are just about employee management.  I'm not gonna roll them out to staff. My thought is to get just comments and buy in from the select board and then I would have a series of staff conversations. That would take a little while because I find in these issues, people are more open and smaller groups. So I don't want to have an all in meeting. I want to have, you know, I'll be five or six. Would hopefully get some buy in and perhaps some improvements. Would you have like an employee, like a couple of employees representing them as they give input? I think I just sit down, I bought with everyone. Okay, with all. But again, I think smaller groups have worked better. Yep. And then so I'm hopeful that we could have a, you know, an adopted handbook in a couple months. So everyone will re-comment and rank what they think is important to Tom. Let's say by the end of the week. Okay. You mean important from our perspective to Tom. Right. Next item is really, they kind of, the historical society is requested to use this room for some ongoing displays. I know Jane Willard has had some conversations with me and I've had some conversations with Tom. And he didn't think we needed to have some, you know, really select board approval. And I kind of agree with that. Just this more in information they're looking at, you know, maybe changing, you know, adding some displays here that have to do with the history of the community. And I assume you would be, the select board would be a supportive of that. Well, back when we were designing this project, that was one of my number one plugs was to incorporate the historical society in this building so that they could do just that. Right. The rotation of historical memorabilia periodically put through the place for the people. And that's what the intent is here is, you know, it's really nice to Sarah Lee things here, but it's kind of, things get dated and people, you know, when they come here, they look around, it would just be a nice informational thing. And it's just nothing I think we need to have a motion, but yeah, I assume we're Roger. I was, since it's on the agenda, I will move that we endorse the historical society's request to use a still room for ongoing displays. Thank you. Second? Yeah. Motion is second, any further discussion? If not all in favor say aye. Aye. Aye. Aye. Any opposed? Any abstentions? Motion carries. I'm sorry, can you second it? Chris. And we heard the previous note, sorry, it should have been an additional discussion, knowing that like we do or don't need to approve those things is a future policy procedure norm. Right. We can examine. Right. Next item, which was added to the agenda was about the town manager reports. Chris, since you brought that up to you. I think I need to get it up a little bit more. Tom and your, as a staff, can I say something about the historical society? I love the idea of changing the displays. If when you're working with them, you can gently remind them that sometimes it can be really disruptive in the office when they're doing that. It's not their intention to be disruptive and we all know that. But there's been times in the past particularly that they've been mugging these huge display cases and things of that nature and it can be a really busy time. Fair enough, yeah. I'll speak with Jane and we'll learn about that. Yeah, and I don't want to say that. Right, it's very nice. Yeah, I still in any way want to take them across. It's pretty, I just, if there can be so. No, it could be very disruptive. Like Mondays, for example, Mondays are always busy. So if there's one day. Midday is good, midday, week's probably a good time. Later in the week, later in the day. I'll have them converge with you and win there. Well, I don't, just to ask, it's not an order. Thank you. Tom's on time, Tom's on time. Okay, Chris. Can you just give us a little update on the completed loan review or what that was? Touch on that just a little bit. Yeah, I'm not sure I can. Is that hasn't gone before EFUD yet? I see. Okay. I think that, I think some of that conversation and it's review of their, you know, their financial statements, things like that. So I'm not sure that's an open session item. Certainly the loan approval would be at that stage, but. The ongoing heat issue, has that been problematic? It's been problematic since I've been here. Yeah, well, it's been problematic since I've been here. It's been problematic since I've been here. It's been problematic since I've been here. It's been problematic since I've been here. It's been problematic since I've been here. I think that's a good project. I encourage them to incorporate tubing in all of our concrete slabs throughout the building for fear of heat problems down the road with this new and improved heat source. And here we are. So I'm wondering a little bit about what's going on because it does seem to be hitting our pocket pretty hard from time to time. Yeah, the challenge is, you know, the local technician comes here and reads the error code and it's error code, you know, E73, and there's a book that's thick about error codes and they've got to call the manufacturer in Texas. But the bottom line is it sounds like to me it's not the heating system itself, it's the communications equipment that interacts with it. So, you know, doesn't know which sounds are firing, things like that.  It's always an issue when it's really called out. Half-time change of sides. Yeah, when it's really called out that they had put 15 below and really windy, I think the whole building struggled to keep up. Yeah. The, I think the repair is something like 10 to $15,000. Yeah. Haven't seen that invoice yet, but it's kind of... Yeah, unfortunately. And Woody's quite frankly, had a mouth of it. Woody is ready to just put coal in and... Unfortunately, that was my reasoning for... We're trying to get them to incorporate to be back then because to retrofit something now is going to be very difficult and expensive. I'm just not sure what we can do at this point aside from fix what we have. I mean, we didn't even have a generator. That wasn't in the original plans and something, we were at a board meeting and something got put in front of me that made the light come on and said, holy crap, we don't have a generator here. And what if we have a power outage for a week or, you know. Right. This whole place is going to go right there. It wouldn't stop afterwards, we got a generator. So I see too also just a note of apparatus and equipment maintenance conducted on April street. Or did I see it? A couple of small portable... Two portable pumps need to be brought to a small engine repair, no mechanic. My guess is my son has been very versed in making these repairs. The gas that we're using is left in a small engine for any period of time actually skims over and creates almost like a plastic film. He actually sent me a video, I probably got it on my phone just a couple of days ago where he had a little prick and he was picking the film on the carburetor. So now they're making, it's expensive but they're making gas, you can buy mixed pre-mixed stuff. Yeah, oh yeah, it's expensive. But that's supposed to guarantee against this type of thing happening and maybe it's worth looking into. Or we, you know, and I said to my son... This is wrong with the ethanol again. Yeah, yeah, and I said to my son the other day, you'd think there'd be an additive to keep that stuff from gelling up or stabbing it, like coming out of the solution. So that'd be my guess that that's what's wrong with those because he's constantly tearing our chain saws and our generators and stuff apart to clean the carburetors and keep them running. But anything else, of course? No, I think we're good on everything else. No, I appreciate the updates too, Paul. Sure. Thank you very much. Yeah, very helpful. And Bill, once upon a time, about if he was gonna do something like that. And it was hard to change, you know, old dog teaching new tricks. I think that, I think I could probably speak for the entire board. I think that report was extremely helpful. Now, last item on the agenda before the executive session is the grant for Vermont aquatic nuisance. Yes, this is seeking approval to apply for this grant. Snuck up on us last minute, it's due March 3rd. But it's something that historically the town's really sticky of his work with friends or the one we're reservoir on. This is the Greeter grant. They're seeking approval up to $5,000. Pass through funds, no time expense, but these are where they station the individuals with the two bill launches and try to keep out the invasives. I think the big one is the immigration bill foil. No, well, Spiney and I had to really there, but they don't want to see that. It's pretty spanked. More of that? Yeah. No way of getting rid of it at this point. It's pretty poor. You look at that entire North arm, it's just like a math. And good. Unless you spent a lot of money with, you know, some sort of, they have these grinder kind of things that remove it, but they, it doesn't eliminate it. It will probably come back. It will just, you know, for a lot of places like Lake Bombazine, they have mill foil problems. It cleans the problem up for people to fish and swim and stuff like that, but it comes back. So it's like an ongoing expense. Alyssa, you had a question? I was going to go ahead and move that the select board authorize the submittal of the grant application to the Vermont Aquatic News Control Rate and Aid for up to $5,000 and authorize Tom to sign it. I have a motion and a second. Any further discussion? And now to, what is it? Prevention is worth a pound of care.  We don't have mill foil yet, please. Okay, all in favor say aye. Aye. Any opposed? I have to abstain because I'm on the board of the Friends of Waterbury Reservoir. So is this one of the items that you're talking about could possibly be bound on a consent agenda? I think so. Right, one that's, you know, some of these organizations to have a yearly kind of pass through grant kind of application, I think that makes sense. It's kind of a, you know, a no brainer but anyone could make a comment if they thought there was a problem. So I think that's a good consensus. Save a little time. And I think saving a little time was a great setup. Maybe the best news of the night is the executive session issue was resolved. So. Okay. Yes. Great. I'm not just saying that. Should we go to the executive session to find out how? Or? You can. You can. Is there anything else to come before us? Motion to adjourn. Not motion to adjourn. I'm so moved. Second. I'm sorry that was, we, all in favor say aye. Aye. Aye. We're adjourned.