is the part for that. Is this good? Yes. People hear me? OK, good. OK. OK, so I'm going to talk about three different investigations of three different problems. I hope I'm not trying to cram too much in. I'm going to try and have a thread running through it, which is to say, sometimes people think that if you've done something experimentally, you do it numerically, that's good. You should reproduce methods of complementary. You should reproduce what you've done. And I don't think that. I think that for some things, they're better done experimentally. Some things, they're better done numerically. And some things, there's no point in doing both. So I'm going to try and give motivations for doing things numerically. And the first and the easiest to understand is that a numerical simulation provides a perfect experiment. It provides perfectly straight boundaries. It provides a perfectly constant temperature. If you don't want to include forces, they will just won't be there. If you want there to be no vibration, there won't be any vibration. It will just be the problem that you have defined. In addition, not only will you be conducting perfect experiment, you'll get perfect data out. You'll get all the data you want. You'll get an entire velocity field at every point. Whatever you want, you can get out. None of it's hidden to you. But that is not the only motivation for doing numerical work. Another one is that you can do things that you couldn't do experimentally. You can calculate unstable, steady states. And I'll tell you about that later. And you can calculate eigenvectors and various mathematical objects that are not accessible experimentally. That you can only approximate or hope for experimentally. And then the third reason is that you can test physical theories with it. That is to say, you don't know that your fluid is an alderoyd B fluid. Now, I don't even know what that is, but I know it's a fluid model. But you don't know that you're fluid. But you can, so that if you do something with a fluid and it doesn't do what an alderoyd fluid does, then maybe you did it wrong. Whereas you put that in your simulation, and that's what your simulation is. It's following that model, and you'll find out. And another, OK, but I don't do non-Newtonian fluid, so that's not relevant to me. But what is relevant is turbulence. Sometimes people think, you know, turbulence unsolved problem, maybe we have to go beyond Navier-Stokes. No, we don't have to go beyond Navier-Stokes. And the reason we know that is because numerical simulations of the Navier-Stokes equations give the same turbulence that you see in experiment. So there are no more terms needed. There are no, the Navier-Stokes equations are fine. It's their behavior that one doesn't understand entirely. But we see that, so you can learn physical things from the, from numerical simulations. OK, so let me first talk about the first use where you're gonna do a perfect experiment, have perfect input and perfect output. And this is something I talked about when I was here three years ago, transition to turbulence and plane-quad flow. And this is done with a time-dependent code. So it's like a perfect experiment. And let me start by showing a movie. So let's see, where's the movie? Hopefully this will just go. Ready, everybody watching the movie? OK, what is this? A plane-quad flow is the flow between two parallel plates moving in, in different, at different speeds. What you're seeing is the velocity in this direction where the fluid is, where the plates are moving, midway between the two plates. So the plate that's closest to you moves to the right, say the plate that's furthest for you moves to the left and you're right in the middle. Where if you didn't have any kind of turbulence, the flow would be zero. It's moving to the right here. It's moving to the left. In between this linear interpolation, in the middle it's zero. No fluid, no velocity, that's green. Fluid to the right, that's red. Fluid to the left, that's blue. And this is at Reynolds number of 500. Move my little cursor here, let me go. OK, so you see that at 500 there is turbulence. There's this, there's kind of little warms moving. The red is, as I say, it's fluid that used to be here where it was moving to the right that's gone to the middle. This is fluid that used to be there that's moving to the left. And now we've lowered the Reynolds number to 300 from 500, so the difference between the velocities is less. And you see that there's less turbulence, but you see that the turbulence is arranging itself. You see that in parts of it are all green, so there's no turbulence, no velocity. And you see that it's arranged in this stripe at a certain angle, do you see that? And that angle has a fixed, that stripe has a fixed angle, fixed wavelength, and really nobody knows why that happens, not really. And these are numerical simulations. And let's see, let's continue. This will just continue forever. It will just stay that way in this stripe forever and ever, which is a long time. And there, so the first thing I'm gonna talk to you about is this. Okay, so this is then simulations. And this is a reminder of what coet flow is. It's the flow between different plates. And it's a lot like telecoet flow. And I mentioned that here because of course we're doing a lot of telecoet flow in my activity and in Bruce's activity. That's not flow between two plates, but between two cylinders at different velocities. It's the same, but with curvature effects. Except it's not, for the co-rotating case it is, and you get these patterns that we've been talking about and that maybe you've been talking about Bruce, the patterns like that for the co-rotating case. But in the counter-rotating case, it's a lot like plain coet flow. Plain coet flow has no linear stability leading to, no linear instability, that is to say the basic flow where it's fast here, slower here, and then goes to the left. Is that the left for you? Yeah. That one is stable for all Reynolds numbers. And it's the same with counter-rotating telecoet flow. And yet, what you get when you do counter-rotation, this is a picture from Andrek U. Swinney, is a region of turbulence there in a spiral and a region of laminar flow. And that's from 1986. And then in a much, much larger domain done later in 2002 by a French group, one could then see that this piece of turbulence here, is there a, is this a laser pointer here? Middle, top middle? Maybe bottom? Oh, it depends maybe what you mean by top. Yes, okay, yes, okay. So this stripe here is like one little stripe here. This is a piece that, and you see that, that the angle is very regular and the wavelength is very regular. And this is not alternation between left and right or in and out, this is alternation between turbulent, not turbulent, not terminal, turbulent and so on. That's very strange. Here's a picture of the same experiment done in plain coet flow. That was one of their discoveries is that you could do this in plain coet flow as well. And this is our simulation that shows that you have turbulence and laminar flow there. And we did the simulations in a, in a domain like this tilted, tilted in the direction of variation of the pattern, the expected variation. And this is done just solving Navier-Stokes equations as the fluid would have done. And among the things that we did was to average the, in time. This is, this is now a line perpendicular. This is a line along this, in this direction, in the mid-plane, halfway between the two plates. And you can see they're forming the turbulence and the laminar region. And now you can average in time and you get something, a smooth data set. And then you can analyze it. For example, you can, here's the average in time and in the, the narrow direction. And you get the Reynolds average Navier-Stokes, these are the average Navier-Stokes equations. And from this you can get the forces that are at play. This is the non-linear term, the viscous term. And then this is the Reynolds stress. And you can get the actual exact Reynolds stress because you have every quantity that you need to do this calculation. And you can learn that the non-linear term and the viscous term are balancing each other where there is no turbulence. You can learn all these things. You can do actual force computations at every point in space, which is not something that you could do generally with experiment, not yet. When I was young you couldn't get velocity fields from experiment. And then I started to see the first, the first PIV and other kinds of experiments that actually showed the velocity fields as well as numerics. And I thought numerics was out of business. But apparently not, not yet. Perhaps someday they will be, but not at present. So you can get forces. Here's something else you can do. Our domain was in the direction of the expected and the experimentally observed wave vector. You see how this is perpendicular to the stripes? Well, you can actually put a domain that's parallel or perpendicular like that or any other direction. And you can see if there's a turbulent solution, even though this is a striped solution like this is not seen experimentally. And here's what we found. By forcing these angles we could find that there were indeed all kinds of other solutions. It can have lots of different angles and lots of different wavelengths because we could force it. Now that doesn't mean that's what's observed experimentally because these are probably unstable. But it's the kind of thing you can do numerically that you couldn't possibly do experimentally because you're making the solution do something. So here's the first, that's the end of the first example, which is to say that numerics provides a clean detailed experiment with perfect input and perfect output. And this was the example, the method was merely time integration. And what did we show? We showed that you can get the turbulent laminar banded solution in a truncated oblique domain OK, the obliqueness there's to say in a domain like this we produced this solution. The picture that you saw here, you can see that our computational domain is underneath it there. It's just repeated many times. We didn't do a computation this big. We did a computation in this box. And we showed that we could produce the pattern in this box. And that's a result by itself. And another result was that you could have many different angles, most of the patterns being unstable. And then we could calculate the balance of forces maintaining the mean flow. And all of these are things that would not be accessible to experiment. Questions so far? This is the end of story number one. Sorry? Yes, yes, they're 3D. Yes. The computational box, the box in which we did the computations has the white outline here. And then we just repeated them. You can see that here. Look at it here, perhaps. Yeah, here, sorry. You see this box? This is the box in which we did the simulations. You see that the rest is just repeated. So it's a result that you get the same flow in a small box like this with the correct wavelength and the correct angle and so on. It's a result that you get that in a small domain, tilted that way. More questions about this little story? Story number one? OK, story number two, the faraday instability. This was done by other coworkers here. And what is the faraday instability? Well, it's the oscillation of a plate of fluid, a thin layer of fluid, like this. And above a certain acceleration, a certain amplitude of oscillation, you get standing waves forming on the surface. And I think if I do this right, this will appear like this. These are square wave patterns that we have computed. As with the other thing, we did not compute in this big box. We computed in a single domain and repeated it. So this is one computation like this. And then the picture is repeated four by four times just to make clear what's going on. And so faraday observed this in 1831. And maybe other people observed it before, but he reported it scientifically. And these are the kind of patterns that you can get, stripes, and squares, and hexagons.  Those are the patterns, the shapes that tile the plane. Now, although faraday did these experiments long before the experiments putting into the scientific literature Rayleigh Bernard Convection telecoette flow, which were done in the late 1800s. This was the early 1800s. The analysis of it took much longer. The linear stability analysis was not done in the 1910s and 1920s, as was the case for telecoette flow and Rayleigh Bernard Convection, but was done in 1954 by Benjamin Ersel. And the first numerical simulations were not done in the 70s, as was the case for telecoette and Rayleigh Bernard, but just recently about 10 years ago. And so what are those results? The linear stability analysis in the inviscid case was done by Benjamin Ersel in 1954. And the viscous analysis was done in 1994, 40 years later. And what is this? These are wave numbers. And this is an acceleration. And this says that with this amplitude of acceleration, the fluid becomes unstable to perturbations of wavelength, say this. This is an inverse millimeters or something. This is the wavelength to which it becomes unstable. And this is the same for the viscous case, where the threshold is higher, as is usually the case, because viscosity damps things. So inviscid analyses generally predict too low a threshold. So that's the first linear stability analysis, which was, as you can see, quite late. And the first computations, the first two-dimensional numerical simulation was done in 2000, which is really pretty recent. The first two-dimensional simulations of Rayleigh Bernard convection telecoette flow were done in the 70s. So this is pretty recent. And the first three-dimensional analysis was done 2009, the first three-dimensional calculation. Again, very recent, very late. And for reasons we don't, I don't know. I think I was just lucky. And as you can see, this is a computation, a piece of the same computation you just saw. You see the whole velocity field coming from our computations. You can see that it looks kind of like a volcano, this velocity coming in, and all that. This is the kind of information that you get from a numerical simulation that you would not get from observing the instrument in the laboratory, where you would be lucky to just see the interface. And every still, oh, the free surface code. Oh, well, OK. I cut out most of the detail about that, but there'll be a little bit more. And I can certainly tell you this is not my domain. I was saying I was lucky. And how was I lucky? Well, I was sharing an office with someone who did free surfaces.  I don't. I wish I could. I would then do a simulation of the Faraday instability, which has never been done. And he said, yes, I have free surface code, but what's the Faraday instability? So because we got together, we got to do this. But anyway, it requires free surface code technology, which I don't know very much about, or if anything. And I can show you as much detail as you want later. Exotic patterns were found by these researchers. Edwards and Fulv, he was at Texas, where Professor Sweeney comes from and in Pennsylvania, by forcing with two frequencies. So it's not a simple trigonometric system, but a little bit more complicated in time. They showed pretty pictures like this. The Lane Scale, yeah, yeah, they come from the Lane Scale. You know the relation of Rayleigh or Lamb, omega squared equals gk, they come from the frequency. They're not set by the depth. They're set by the frequency. So by having a two-frequency signal, you excite two different wave numbers. And that's what makes the quasi patterns. And I have a whole talk about that, which I'd be happy to show you as well. But that's right. They're excited by the nice thing about Faraday waves is that on telequette and Rayleigh, here's the cylinder. And here's the outer cylinder. And the Lane Scale is the depth. The gap are in or out. You saw the rolls. They're about like this, right? They're round. So this depth is the same as this wavelength. And the same with convection. Convection, you have two plates, hot, cold. This depth, you have rolls that are about as wide as they are tall, like that. But this is not the case for Faraday. For Faraday, the wavelength is decided by the frequency.  And if you shake it slowly, you get long wavelengths like that. So you have much more control over the spatial wavelengths. So getting back to this interplay between experiment and numerics, before 2005, they could not even experimentally measure the height of a surface as a function of space and time. There were no quantitative measures that you would take photographs and you could do some kind of post-processing. But you could not get a map of height as a function of x, y, and t. And that changed in the middle 2000 when three methods were invented for doing that, all based on different principles. This one is based on, well, I don't know what it's based on, but it requires fluids of near equal densities and high viscosity. There's another method that uses a kind of random pattern on the bottom and calibrates the method so that you see how these random dots move under the wave motion. And then there's a third method. What's the third method? I don't know. Anyway, they were all invented around the same time, 2005 or so. So with these quantitative measurements, this experimental group showed the squares and hexagons as you increase the acceleration. And we go back here, square pattern here and hexagons. And because they now had this, the whole surface height map, they knew the whole mapping, they could then do Fourier spectrary. This is a square, the spectrum of a square is a square. You have the excited Fourier modes are on the four corners of a square. And that's the case here. And then they did for higher accelerations, they had hexagons. And there, too, the Fourier modes, it's its own dual, the Fourier transform, the two-dimensional Fourier transform of a hexagonal pattern is a hexagon also. So this is meant to show that they had enough information that they could do Fourier transform. So again, you might think that we would be out of business. But apparently not quite yet. These are some of the basics of the idea of the free surface code. I don't know much more than this, but this is what the basic slide on what they do. And you saw before these instability tongues where you have the wave number here, the wave number, and the forcing amplitude like this. And the instability occurs inside these tongues. And these are the critical accelerations. And so Nicola Perriné showed that the code reproduced the theoretical curve like that very well. And here are computations done the square one you've already seen. And here is the hexagon, the hexagonal lattice here. Let's show you again. Oh, this is a square. And then this is the hexagons. Again, this computation was just done in a single hexagonal domain. And then the picture is repeated. Yes. I can show that. The minimal domain for a hexagon, one side has to be, has a relationship, has to be a square root of three times the size of the other. Is that your question? Maybe not? To form a hexagonal pattern in a minimal domain, it has to be there's a certain length relationship. It's not a square domain. Oh, this is the domain that we computed it. We were able to produce a single hexagon in a domain that's L by square root of 3L. And then we just repeated them. That's not what's done later. I'll show you that in just a moment. This is for these first simulations. OK. Come on. Next slide. There. In fact, the information is right here. This is the minimal domain that's needed. The relationship is square root of 3 between the two lengths. And this is a minimal domain for a hexagon. And the grid that we used is about twice as dense as what's shown here. So we had this many points, 75 by 125 by 225, I think, like that, to get this one hexagon. And so as I said, not only can you get the surface which now the experiments can get, they couldn't always, we can also get the velocity fields. We see that they, we see here that when it's at its lowest point, that's when the velocity is highest. It's about to lead to the eruption of the volcano here. You can see that. And here, when you have the bump, the velocity is actually heading inwards, and it's going to make it go down. It's heading inwards, and it's going to squash it down to this. And you can see every detail of the velocity field, because it's a numerical code. We have access to all of that. And these are just nice pictures of what the hexagonal field looks like over a forcing period. But now we wanted to do more. We wanted to go to a bigger domain. So we went to a, so my colleagues, who didn't know how to write free surface codes, wrote a code that they called blue, which has the front tracking level set algorithm is what we were using in the single domain case. But this has parallelization, domain decomposition. Tests are up to 65,000 processors. Each of the processors holds a grid of 32 cube points. So you can see just how big a problem you can do here. And then we went to do larger problems. And here is one. This is the first larger one that we did. Let's see. I hope this, yes. OK, so you see this is now a large square. This is not just one square repeated, because you can see spontaneously the region divides itself into four pieces that are doing slightly different things. It's like a waffle. This one and this one are in phase, and this one is in phase with that. If you take a slice through here, this one has minima, when this one has maxima, and vice versa. And you can see that here in this picture. You can see as you take a slice here, you can see this one and that one are out of phase with one another. And it chose to do this spontaneously. It didn't want to do the same thing all throughout its domain. It wanted to divide itself into two by two squares for some reason, yes. I don't know. We haven't done a survey of this. I don't know. I don't know what it would do then. Yes, but we also did this with Dirichlet and Neumann boundary conditions, and it did about the same thing. In fact, I think this is with Neumann boundary conditions and not with periodic, I think. So this was nice. So we were excited about this. And we discovered that he had actually already been seen experimentally by Duadi and Fulf. Here's a picture that was published by Duadi here of the pattern that he saw in about 1990. We did this in around 2010. So 20 years later, we actually, we didn't know that. We didn't go to search for this pattern. We just found it as it happened. Now, what could we do that they didn't do, because that was what, that's kind of the theme of this. Well, they had a theory about what the Fourier spectrum was like, they at the time could not measure the exact surface height as a function of space and time. And they had a theory about what kind of resonances between the wave numbers led to it. And we showed that it was a different one. We showed that the wave numbers were not excited, were not exactly what they thought they were different. We still don't know really why the pattern forms. But anyway, their exact surface height measurement was not right. But basically, we were happy to see that this had already been seen. And then we went and did a different thing. That's the end of that little tiny story. Anybody want to ask any questions about that little tiny story? This is a sub-story. There's more on Faraday coming up. No? Ready? OK. Now we thought, instead of accelerating this, what if we did this with a sphere where we had a radial, everybody knows gravity, right? Gravity acts radially. Supposing the gravity were to alternate up, down, up, down, up, down, up, down, up, down, right? Radially. Not like this, but radially, a radial oscillating force. So you see the gravity that's over there. Now, in the short term, contrary to what you might think, nothing happens. After all, we have gravity here.  That is to say, pressure compensates for gravity. Even though you might think something would happen if gravity oscillated in our world here, it wouldn't actually. All that would happen would be that the hydrostatic pressure which compensates for gravity would, I mean, no. That's not true. As we ran, things would happen. But the air would not all fall to the ground because the hydrostatic pressure is what keeps the air up. And it would alternate like this. So you'd have the gravitational force and the hydrostatic pressure. And then the other half the oscillation, you'd have the hydrostatic pressure here and the gravitational force like that. So it would actually not lead to some terrible consequences. Thardet is an instability, meaning that the surface could stay flat. That's a solution the whole time. You could have a flat surface that's just oscillating up and down. It's an instability, meaning that you need an initial condition that has a wavelength like this, and then it starts doing this. And so too with the sphere. The sphere would just stay spherical. It can stay spherical, but there's an instability. And now you're going to see it. Those tongues that you saw before, now you see them in the, again, in forcing amplitude spherical wave number space here. And now you see the shapes that are excited. And I'm going to show you movies. This is one exit here. This is called L equal 2. It's oblate-prolate alternation. And you'll see it's going from a kind of football to a kind of disc. Football, disc, football, disc, football, disc. So it's conserving volume. It bulges out like this and flat, and then the other way around. It always has two axes the same, and then the third axis is different. Either the third axis is shorter than the other ones or taller. And this is the fluid drop, but it's also the velocity field.  So this is what it does when it's saturated.  You see it's on this axis here. But it's actually going to move. Come on. Keep going. You see now it's no longer straight up. You see how it's tilted? You see that it's tilted? It did that by itself. It seems to want to tilt, and now it's tilting more and more and more. And we don't know why. And we want to investigate this. We don't know why it's tilting like this. We've taken transforms, spherical harmonic transforms, and we can quantify the way it's moving around like that. And we don't know why it's doing that. Yes? I don't see the surface of the machine. Oh, you don't see the surface because it's covered with velocity arrows. It's covered with that fuzzy velocity arrows. It's in there. This is the domain here. Sorry, I should have said that. What's outside here is nothing. This is the domain, and it's the surface is the smooth part there. OK? It's kind of a bright scene. We're talking in one direction.   It's a code. You have slightly different initial conditions. You get things to be different. But you can. It is an instability. So it's not only doing this, but that it's doing at a fast time scale. But it's also doing this. It's moving for reasons that we don't know. And that perhaps is a discovery. We're not sure. And we want to look into this more. And then, let's see, oh, I did this already. OK. So that was for a certain L. This is called L equal 2. In spherical harmonics, if you know spherical harmonics, you know they're labeled with LM. This is the L equal 2 mode. And when I did this thing here, this is different L's. This was L equal 3, 4, 5, 6, 7. What you just saw was L equal 2. And now we can proceed to a different L. But before we do that, I tell you that for small L's, what you get are the platonic solids. You've heard perhaps of the platonic solids. Those are the five regular polyhedra with this many faces. And each polyhedron has a dual, a dual of a polyhedron. I didn't know this before, but each dual of a polyhedron is when you turn the vertex into a face and you turn a face into a vertex. So here you see that the dual of a cube does not have six faces. It has six vertices, which are here. 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, right? And it doesn't have, whereas the cube has six vertices. 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, excuse me, no, that's not true. Hold on, it has eight vertices. 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8. And this thing here has eight faces. 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8. The faces turn into vertices, the vertices turn into faces. And you can see that when you're doing this with the drop, it becomes its dual. If you take the maximum to be a vertex and the minimum to be like a face, then it's oscillating between itself and its dual. So we can have a pattern, possibly, that's a cube and an octahedron. And the other two platonic solids are the dodecahedron and the icosahedron, which are duals of one another, which this is 12 pentagons, and this is 20 triangles. And indeed, for l equals 3, we get a tetrahedron, oscillating tetrahedron. And a tetrahedron is its own dual. For l equals 4, we get oscillation between a cube and an octagon. That one's a cube, and then it's an octagon. We're not used to seeing octagons. But octagons, you take a cube and you'd make every corner flat and every flat piece corner. So that's the alternation you see for l equal 3 and l equal 4. And again, you can control this by the frequency. You change the frequency, and that's how you do it. To go across the axis, you change, you just make the forcing have a higher and higher frequency. This is an l equal 5 pattern, which is in here. And that is something alternating between an icosahedron and a dodecahedron. And all these are predictions that you, in the pictures, of course, have details. And they have those velocity vectors. You can see those, and maybe you can see it better that it's got this fuzz of velocity vectors on top of it. What if we, oh, this is nice. This is a one pattern. What is a one pattern? Well, we didn't know. But it's where it goes, boing, boing, boing, boing, boing, boing, boing, boing, boing, boing, boing. That's to say this, what is a two pattern? The prolate and the oblate, you have two bulges and flat places. L equal 1, you have one bulge and one out and one in. And what does that mean? If you have a sphere and one place goes out and one place goes in, well, then it's going that way. And then you alternate between the bulge and the flat place, going the other way. So it does this. This is l equal 1. You're not applying a force that does this. You're applying a force that does this. But the response of the system is to go boing, boing, boing, boing, boing. Let's see if we can make it do that again. Oops. So that's l equal 1. And all this is controlled. We're doing the same thing. All that we're changing here is the forcing frequency to get these different patterns. We're changing the forcing frequency. And we get all these. In this planar case, it wouldn't be so spectacular. Because indeed, the wavelength is determined, the spatial frequency, the wavelength, is determined by the temporal frequency. Yes. So you get something that's tighter, do, do, do, do, do, or something that is a longer wavelength. That doesn't seem so different. But when you put it on a sphere, different l's do different things. As you can see, an l equal 3 is a tetrahedron. An l equal 1 is a boing, boing, boing, boing, boing. An l equal 2 is pro-late O-blade. They really have different shapes. They're not just different sizes, as would be the case in the planar case. Or you change a wave number, a planar wave number k for another one, k prime. It's just something bigger or smaller. Here it's actually very different. Yes. Most of these are subharmonics. Some are harmonic. Some are harmonic. Most of them are subharmonic. I have a detailed map of that. And for those who want to, OK, here. Now I can do my other demonstration. The faraday instability is generally subharmonic, as our colleague has pointed out. And what is subharmonic? Here is the surface. It's doing this. And here is a harmonic oscillation. You see, it has the same period as the surface. And here is a subharmonic oscillation. Up, down, up, down. It has twice the temporal period of the forcing period, as our colleague who knows about faraday seems to know. So some of these are harmonic and some are subharmonic. We can excite either one. OK. And we're almost at the end of this story here. So this is the code blue that has all these features that has this very parallel that can do a lot of stuff. And it's been, I didn't put in the coding detail, the physical details. I only put the computational ones. This is the speed up with a number of processors. This is where they show that they can take full advantage of the parallelization. And if they have 10,000 processors, then they can go 10,000 times as fast, which isn't always the case that you have to learn how to write your programs properly so as to do that. I don't know how to do that, but they do. So this is where they show that it speeds up that way. Yes? Yes? Yes? Well, there are many, many hydrodynamic things that do many things. And I'll say no there. How's that? I'll say no. This is on the surface of the sphere and it's due to, and it's an instability due to oscillatory forcing. I don't, you're talking about oscillatory forcing? Yes, for the sand quakes. The sand quakes? They are the strongest tool and they can write the program into the sphere. Okay. It's too far from my subject to say anything. Yes, you were going to say something. It is a drop surface interaction. Can you introduce a specific model that you think is going to happen? Well, fortunately, for once, this code is not my business. You'll have to ask my colleagues. Maybe they can do that. I know nothing about it. I don't think they have anything viscoelastic. They have surface tension. There is surface tension. That was there somewhere in these equations. Yeah, I don't think they've done anything like that. Yeah. Here's the surface tension over here. Where they take into account the curvature to make the surface tension. Okay, so let's see. Am I at the end of this little mini story? Not quite, I think, because, or am I at the end of this mini story? Did the L go 1? Blue, oh yes. So this code, so this does all this. And fortunately, I said I got in touch. That's how I got to be the first person to do the 3D simulation of Faraday's, because I met somebody who knew service codes. And then they were inspired and they wrote this code. And here they did some spectacular things. Since this is generally about CFD, not about pattern formation, which is what I do. But this is how they use tremendous amount of resolution here. And they did some kind of fluid through an aperture like this with engineering applications, the Omar Tahrad Imperial. And here is their simulation where they show the fluid going through the aperture. It has different viscosity. You can see it's got all these parameters just to show what they can do with their code. And I'm happy that it was inspired by working with Faraday instability. Okay, so I think now that's the end of this little mini story. Yes, so this was, again, this was the case of just doing a clean, detailed experiment. And I have these colleagues, former students, postdocs, colleagues, they did this with a free service time step encoder. What did we learn? Well, because we have a code, we have the knowledge of the free surface in time and space. Nowadays, that can be done experimentally as well, which was not the case when we first started. We also have the knowledge of the velocity field, and that every place in time and space. And that cannot yet be done experimentally. But we can do this experiment with the sphere, which experimentalists hearing about this, they want to know, how could I do this? Indeed, there are experiments with spherical drops, but they're held by some kind of piezoelectric or something. They can't be held perfectly spherically. They're held by something maybe between here and here. There's some kind of electrophoresse or something that's holding them. But there is a distinguished axis. It's hard to hold something in midair with complete radial symmetry. I don't think anybody knows how to do that, although I may be wrong. So we can actually do this experiment that nobody else can do, because you can't figure out how to hold a sphere in midair like that. We can do these Fourier modes, spherical harmonics as we did, and also this serve to help validate this new free surface code, blue. It was one of the kids, they're glad to see all this experiment, this agreement with theory and all these pretty pictures. And now I go to my third little story. And this is one that I haven't said before. This now is not just a perfect experiment. Here we also do mathematical analysis. We're going to calculate bifurcation diagram, including unstable steady states. And we're going to do linear stability analysis. People could do transient optimal growth, I'm not talking about that here. So the example is Rayleigh-Bernard Convection cylindrical container. And here we're just talking about time stepping at first, and then we will talk about Newton's method in order to compute the bifurcation diagram. So here is this story here, you have a cylinder about like a can of tuna, something like that. That's the right aspect ratio. Hot here, cold here. As I mentioned before, concerning wavelength choice, what the system likes to do is to, well, convection is when the hot fluid rises, the cold fluid falls, and it likes to make a wavelength that's about the depth. So it likes to make a pattern that's about the same as the depth. If the box is small, then it's very constrained about the pattern that it can make, and that's the case here. So we were inspired by an experimental paper, half Lucas and Mullen in 1999. This is the convection pattern seen from above, like this. The white is hot fluid rising, the black is cold fluid falling. And so you see structures that are about the same size, about this size or this size. The wavelength is about common. But you can see that the pattern itself is quite different. Here you have something that could be called a dipole here. The fact that sometimes it's black, sometimes it's white is to be expected, there's symmetry between, the Boussinesse symmetry between hot fluid rising and cold fluid falling. So this is to be expected.  But why do you have a Y shape at all? They call that a Mercedes pattern, because it looks like a Mercedes logo, and then they had axisymmetric pattern. And this pattern, unlike the ones I was showing you before, these are all acquired at exactly the same parameter values. So there are multiple steady states for this, which is not surprising for fluids, but still it's always nice to see multiple steady states. And how did they get the different patterns? They did it with history. They would heat it up to a certain Rayleigh number and then go back and then heat it higher and then go back. And depending on the history of how it had been moved up and down, when they got to the same Rayleigh number, they would have a different pattern. And you see they have, some of them are duplicates because of symmetry, but there's the axisymmetric, the Y shape, the Mercedes, this one and this one are all different. There are four definitely different patterns here. Actually, this one is different too, I think. Five. One, two, three, four, five. Five completely different patterns. Experimentally, that you see the white and dark corresponding to velocities, how do you experiment with it? Uh, what's the measurement technique they use? I mean, white, black, or white. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. Shadow graph. There, thank you. Shadow graph. Does that tell you what you need to know? I'll leave you though. I can tell you that later. Okay. Okay, so we ran a time-dependent code, which I'd written in the 1980s, but had never had enough computer space to do because computers then were, a lot of people did that. They wrote 3D codes in the 1980s, but you couldn't run 3D codes properly until 20 years later. So, fortunately, this got to be used. And we were able to reproduce a lot of these patterns and history dependence, and we saw all these different things. But this is not an actual bifurcation diagram. This is just kind of, I did this life experiment. I did this, and I saw that. I did this, and I saw that. I did this, and I saw that. It doesn't put order into it. What puts order into it is a bifurcation diagram. And this is a bifurcation diagram. This is the Rayleigh number. And these are different branches, and they're accompanied by pictures that show schematically the pattern that you get. And each of them originates through bifurcations or not. And this is very complicated. There are 21 branches here that we have calculated. But I can tell you, this is only a small fraction of the branches that exist. There exist many more branches. And I know this because there are other eigenvalue crossings, and every time there's an eigenvalue crossing, there's another branch. So this is to say that, from this, you shouldn't say, oh, this is a special problem. No, the lesson to take from this is, Navier-Stokes or Boussinesq or any of these non-linear problems, they have hundreds of solutions, thousands of solutions. Multiple solutions are normal. That is the usual situation when you're solving fluid problems or any other non-linear continuum problems. This is normal. This is just the beginning of it. And you just, they have, I won't say uncountable because it is a countable number of solutions and it's even a finite number of solutions. But it's very, very large. And how did we get all these? Well, we used Newton's method. We were able to, what you usually do when you're talking about time-dependent simulation is you're time-stepping the governing equations. This is what you do on the computer and this is also what nature does. Nature does, d-u-d-t equals f of u, where f of u is gravity, is buoyancy, is centrifugal force, is this and that. This is what nature does and what you do in the computer is often just what nature does, except more exactly. But that's not, as I was saying, that's not the only thing you can do. You can look for steady states. You can look for where f of u is zero independent of whether your system gets there or not. And so you solve these governing equations. You're not integrating them in time. You're looking for roots of f of u, f of u being the right-hand side, equilibria, even if they're unstable. Most of them are unstable.  And being a stable solution is you have a flat space at the bottom of a well. So you move a little, you come back, right? Being an unstable solution is like being at the top where yes, you're happy, you're flat, as long as nobody bothers you.  And that's an unstable solution. And you won't see those because things are always bothering experiments. They're also bothering numerics. They're bothering them with finite precision. They're bothering them with a truck going past. They're bothering them with the gravity of Jupiter. There's no, it's not perfect. And hence anything that is unstable, you will not observe, either numerically or experimentally. But you can compute it. You can compute it if you use Newton's method rather than doing time dependent solution. And it was by Newton's method that we found this bifurcation diagram in all these branches. And this explains, explains in some sense, these multiple observations. Let me give a tiny bit more detail about that. When you have a circle, circular symmetry, necessarily the states that appear are trigonometric. They look like this. This is dipole state. This is m equal two. This is m equal four, excuse me, m equal one, m equal two, m equal zero, m equal three. And these are the bifurcations that will take place as you increase in Rayleigh number. Did you see anything like this in those experimental pictures? Some yes, some no. You saw dipole state, sort of, you saw axis metric. But you didn't see anything like this, this two with four little dots nor something with six dots. But that's not what you saw. You saw different things. You saw that Mercedes pattern. This says m equal three and there was something with three, but that was a Y-shaped thing, which this does not look like. And indeed, if you do the bifurcation analysis and find the steady state for m equal three, this is what bifurcates as it has to. As I said, what is connected to the conductive state necessarily for mathematical reasons must have six little spots, three red, three blue, necessarily. This is what you see. This is the Mercedes pattern. And to get from here to here, we calculated all the intermediate states and this branch here, which we called Marigold. Well, here, we found another branch which we called Mitsubishi. You can see for obvious reasons, like the Mercedes. But then when we found these other states, we didn't have, there were no car logos that went with them. So we went to a flower pattern, flower names. So this one that we called Marigold. And then there's another bifurcation that breaks the symmetry between red and blue leading to these Mitsubishi states. And then there's a saddle node bifurcation for those who know what this means. But anyway, it's a transition like that to another kind of pattern that looks a little different. You see, these are bulging out and these didn't. And then another saddle node bifurcation here. And finally, you get the Mercedes. And this thick blackness here means that it's stable. None of these patterns are stable. This one, for reasons unknown, is stable. But the genesis of it, the creation of this solution has to happens through all this. It's not that the system does that. The system doesn't do anything like that. The system jumps up to here. All of these are unstable. But you wouldn't know any of this if you weren't finding the unstable steady states. And mathematically, one knows that you can't connect something that looks like this to something that is featureless. You necessarily have to go to something that has six spots. So this is the kind of thing that you can do mathematically with numerics that no experiment can do. This is making the equations do stuff. This is math. And so here I'm summarizing my story. This was in this, for Rayleigh-Bernard convection cylindrical container, we did not only time-stepping, but also bifurcation diagram and linear stability analysis. And we used time-stepping, yes. But we then also used Newton's method. And now to do Newton's method, Newton's method requires, here at a certain point, here there's this thing for multi, this is for one dimension. For multiple dimensions, this is a Jacobian. The u is a vector. It's a very long vector that describes the entire velocity field everywhere. f prime of u is a Jacobian, which is number of points by number of points. It could be, I don't know, 10,000 by 10,000 matrix. You cannot actually solve this. You have to use special numerical linear algebra to use this. You might be surprised to hear this, but the big challenges in computation are not some fancy things, but merely solving the equation ax equals b for very large a. Matrix A times vector x equals right-hand side b. So we do this in a matrix-free way and thus we're able, whoops, able to do this, find that bifurcation diagram. So what do we accomplish here? We found many different branches, almost all being unstable, and thus we were able to lose state the sequence of bifurcations leading to the observed states. Thank you.


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Back to Boston Messages, we're here live. This is SiliconANGLE and Wikibon's exclusive coverage of HP Vertica's user conference. The hashtag is HP Big Data 2013. We're watching the Twitter stream. This is theCUBE, our flagship program. We go out to the events, extract the signal from the noise. I'm John Furrier, the founder of SiliconANGLE. I'm joined by my co-host. Hi everybody, I'm Dave Vellante at wikibon.org. Deborah Ann Braun is here. She is the director of Global Information Solutions at HP. She's an IT practitioner. She's the director of Global Information Solutions at HP. She's an IT practitioner within HP's Information Technology Organization. Deborah Ann, welcome to theCUBE. Thanks for coming out. Thank you. Thank you guys so much for having me today. So you were telling us off camera you've been pretty busy. Yes. All the partners and sales guys dragging you around actually asking you to talk about how you're implementing. So tell us what you've been doing here the last few hours. Well we started off with a presentation this morning talking about the Vertica partnership with ClickView and how HP is using it internally to deliver our executive dashboards for software. And we had a lot of really good conversations about not only the partnership between Vertica and ClickView but also some of the impacts on the industry on big data. And can I tell a story? I have a story. I have a story. This is great. So I told the story this morning in my presentation as well. I was coming down the elevator this morning and a lady was in the elevator with me and she noticed my badge and she goes so what is this big data thing? I'm like she kind of caught me off guard. I'm like what? There's this big data thing. I was like oh the Vertica conference and she's like yeah can you tell me a little bit about it? And so I kind of give her like a 10 second overview. And just as the elevator door is open she looks at me and she goes so how big is big data? And I just like completely laughed to myself because that's the question of the hour. Exactly. How big is big data? And I asked her I said well are you in IT? Do you know anything? She's like no but I mean is it that important? Is big data that important? And I was so compelled to tell that this morning in the group that we were in because the concept of what big data was three, five years ago people were afraid of petabytes. And today we look at Xenobite and we're just like we'd laugh in the face of big data. The data that we're collecting and managing and using to help us understand our business is better. We don't look about it in terms of how big is the data. We really focus on how do we answer the right questions and we need tools like Vertica to help us manage the process of getting to that data. And that's what is I think a really good sweet spot for Vertica. In my career in working in business intelligence and data warehousing it's one of the strongest vendors I've seen come in a really long time that adds a new concept to data and managing data and analyzing data. So it was exciting. Big data, big deal. You've seen that before. And you know the other thing too is that woman in the elevator you're probably going to give her a hundred examples where she's touching the big data. Absolutely. So when you made that comment about Vertica from a practitioner's perspective, what is compelling and alluring about the technology, the architecture, what is it about the software? That's a great question. And as a matter of fact I just got out of a session. I was in a session where they were talking about expanded analytic capabilities within Vertica today. And I think to me that's as an actual user of the product and I look to Vertica to really continue to expand its suite. It's the ability that they have to integrate analytics within the Vertica platform. I think that that's very important versus having to go outside looking at an analytic engine provider within Vertica itself. We have the ability to use that capability to drive analytic solutions. And I was very excited to hear about the extensions that they talked about today in some of our sessions because it's going to further take that capability a lot faster down the road. And the competitors with all their respect are great competitors of Vertica. But I don't see them focusing on that analytic space which is what makes Vertica I think very unique. So add some color to that if you would Debra. You're talking about the analytics. You're talking about statistical capabilities. Obviously you're partnering with a lot of the visualization. Can you just add some detail there? Absolutely. So we're talking about definitely doing a lot of predictive analytics where we're looking to identify based on historic information where are we going. We are also looking at some functions that help us parse through data faster and make smarter decisions based on the results of information that we see. So it's really a combination of prediction and aligning the data. And then the statistical analysis is just amazing. The things that you can do, the formulas that you can derive information from. Out of the box. Out of the box. Debra, and talk about the customers here. Because one of the things we're really impressed by is the heavyweight type players here. There are no lightweights here, as we said earlier on theCUBE. And sometimes when you see these conferences, they cobble together some customers, buying some free airline tickets, getting them to the game. Some of those. They kind of parade around. And we see, there's some hotshots here. They're all pioneering and emerging areas where big data is competitive advantage. What do you see in that regard and how is that infiltrating into the folks that are now crossing the CASA? Because those pioneers are set in the stage, set in the agenda. And they're working with Vertica and all kinds of new BI use cases are emerging as well as on the data warehouse side. So talk about that dynamic. The pioneers, from web scale to large, pushing the envelope companies and the enterprise to the followers now that can come on board and cross the CASA. Sure. And I think I can touch on a lot of that. I sat in a panel today with some folks from GE. So talk about foundation. We have a company like GE who has been around forever. And they are using analytics to help them understand better consumers' usage of power and energy and how they can improve on that. And what was so intriguing is the gentleman who was sitting on the panel with me from GE. He was just, he knew from start to finish. He talked about the leverage that GE is taking using Hadoop as a data lake for collecting and managing data through how they're taking device data and actually analyzing the device data to truly understand how they can improve their products proactively for consumers. So it's real world what we see a large company a partner of HP doing to, I spoke to some smaller companies that are really partners with HP as well and had some really good conversations where they're new to Vertica. They've worked with HP for years but they want to start serving our mid-level customers as partners by supporting Vertica. But there hasn't been a lot of information to them on, we don't use it internally so we don't know how to sell and manage it but we have customers who say, you know what, I have a need to do some of this really cool analytics stuff that everyone is talking about but not to the scale of what a large customer might be doing and I think in two or three conversations that I had today there's a relative gap that you can see where companies who can invest tens of millions of dollars to truly go down a path of an architecture and development and analytics. You've got your kind of mid-level companies out there going, you know I only maybe have a million to a million to spend. How do I get in on this? And Vertica's perfect for them because Vertica serves all. So again it was interesting how I've got some really huge top players who are, I'm just throwing money at this to guys who really want to get into the space who now can as a result of what HP supports. Well also there's some technical folks who are really intrigued by them what you guys are enabling. We talked to one practitioner obviously we're exclusive here and part of that we can't talk about some of the big scoops that we were getting and we're getting many here believe me as soon as the embargo is lifted we'll be blocking like crazy a lot of the inside data. No but seriously one guy's like look at Vertica solves a huge problem the way they cluster that is a massive enablement the speed issue goes away I can now build software on the BI side from scratch and throw away the legacy constraints involved in BI. Now that's a tech dude that's an engineer that's a developer that's not an analyst so that's interesting seeing the programmer say hey I love the vertical clusters I love how it scales and the speed that's an interesting dynamic. Absolutely and I myself maintain hands on with technology because I think it's the only way I can actually talk about it with some level of truth I do it if I don't do it I can't talk about it and today they brought it one of the slides and it was just like all of these sequel functions and they're talking through what these functions do and I had all of these well no I was like oh no this is over my head I think but all the guys around me with their arms were up and they're like can I ask a question about that so how does that function integrate properly in the sequel do I call it from a sequel command and just pass that information in and it was so great to see the level of excitement and a statistic I will give to you that you may not have heard from other people is I participated in all of the three level of tracks today and I will tell you that I would I guarantee you that I would say 40% of the people that were committed in those tracks were in the tech tracks and I would say over 60% of the total track population this afternoon has been in the tech tracks in which track in the tech tracks so the technology tracks because we got the ecosystem and everybody I mean the room was standing room only this afternoon I turned around and I couldn't believe it I was like wow this is impressive and there's about 200 seats in that one room so that leads me to another question so you mentioned the term data lake by the way I have to say John Furrier said the lake is too small it's a data ocean so I hate the data lake I hate the data nebulous universe data world so guest genes is announced that they're going to have computers on the guest genes we brought that up to now I'm only kidding so this we had the guest guy earlier the sensor network the sensor network going on there that's right so this is meme of big data you talk to the lady in the elevator everybody's going crazy about it and it seems to be largely led by technology in many cases in many organizations so my question is you've been around data your entire career you were CIO you were consulting around data data warehouse expert database expert how has this big data meme theme changed the way in which organizations are thinking about big data who owns the data strategy and is there a risk that it's largely technology driven to your point about these tracks a lot of technology buzz going on are we at risk of making some mistakes by not looking at the broader picture what do you see as organizations or what would you advise putting your consultant hat that organizations should do with regard to their data strategy should there be a data czar should that individual report into IT talk about that a little bit I'm going to have to give you my personal opinion on this one I'm going out on the limb and I think a lot of people would agree with what I'm about to say for years in the data industry we've been talking about ensuring that you have business partners and that the business is who is driving your data strategy not IT no IT projects I'm in IT so that's almost like heresy for me to say that and I know that we have the ability to influence the business in a positive way down that data road but I firmly believe that I've always believed that the business themselves must own the strategy and drive the strategy for it to be successful because then you're always working uphill to get them to want to be a part of it and to participate as wholly and completely as they have to so I think even as we move forward technology wows us sorry I just saw that picture you popped up yeah that's you why are your tweets protected I just followed you on Twitter yeah I smart I don't know if we're allowed to go into my social media choices but are you media trained no I just I'm a very private person and I'm here doing that you sure do great talking and we love you I love you you're a cute legend am I getting any good tweets on in this video? how's it going? but I mean when it comes down to it I think if we were if we do it right and as HP we like to think of ourselves as doing it right I will be selfish and say that in George Kadifa we have one of the best business executives I have come across in my years I've never seen someone as committed nor his leadership as committed to getting it right by partnering with IT we also have a very strong IT group within HP with very strong IT ideas and ideals and I do see that the work we're doing today is driving a strategy together and I don't know if that's possible for everyone I don't know if you know some some business they're like what why do I care about data and their IT group is like no because you're asking me constantly for information so I don't think there's a one size fits all but I do believe that we're on the right path of having a governance and ownership from a data stewardship standpoint from within the business and an IT organization that will help elevate the strategy as well as making sure that where the business falls short potentially in what we think needs to happen in the vision of the future we're picking that up and saying hey but let's do this also and let's add this in there it's strongly the combination that makes us successful well and coming out of the decade of the late 90s early 2000s there was a lot of finger pointing at IT does IT matter there's a lot of cutting to the bone and a lot of people were down on IT and it feels like it wouldn't be common on this that the data is bringing a renaissance to the technology business because what you just described with George Kedifah a business head aligning with IT in a pretty proactive way those stories were few and far between but you're hearing seems anyway more and more do you see that outside your organization I would say here in the business customers that we have here I'm seeing that I also went to our HP Discover event in June and had the opportunity to meet with some customers as well met some really great customers and I think I'm seeing that maybe that has something to do with how we ourselves consume so much data every day I mean you guys are all over the web all the time I mean we all do it right and so I think people now get it a little bit more about data and why it's so important because they're actually participating in the creation of data that's being used to benefit them I don't think people really understood before I mean marketing was marketing you saw something on TV it looked good you buy it right but now the information that we're gathering from people we're actually using it to make their lives better and being proactive I don't know about you guys but I think one of my favorite things in the world is to walk in a store and first of all they recognize me but they also have done such a good job of profiling what I do that they're like actually we have some suggestions for you today why don't you come over here and look at this and because of that and people see the power and the strength that in their own lives is better they bring it into their company and say you know what that same thing that I got I want my customers to have and any time you get that sense of ownership I think your perspective changes yeah and then replicating that in a digital footprint that's one of the things that we were talking to Bruciana guess about is how do you create that metaphor online yeah absolutely and the answer is data yeah or you could just make jeans a size bigger and label them a size smaller than all the women that's a great idea we should do that that's all my guest people all mine awesome alright so what's next for you it sounds like you travel around a lot and good spokesperson for HP love HP, I'm an HP fan we have a lot of programs going on right now within the organization that we're doing to help benefit and provide more information so we can help our customers unfortunately some exciting things I can't talk about either haha but also I have an opportunity very soon to take our message out to some of our folks in India and Guadalajara and share with them some of the strategy and help them to understand because I have a personal belief that everybody has a vested interest in what we do and you can't just point to someone and say well go write this code or go do this we're all about making sure that everyone has an opportunity to truly understand the strategy of it no matter what role they play and also having them give feedback because information is so available nowadays you know you have people in other parts of the world who you don't communicate with on a day to day basis who have a really great idea that you just haven't thought of yet and so I'm also going to try to take some time to start learning from others as well who are dabbling in some of these new technologies because I mean if I were to be completely honest I think we're kind of reaching that final point again in technology where so much new technology has been recently introduced with Hadoop and the overwhelming prospects of what Hadoop provides and then all of the things around it and you've got other I don't know if I'm allowed to talk about Microsoft but we have large companies who are like starting to recognize that hey maybe we need to get in that space too we need to play a role that I think things are going to be stagnant for a while while we all get our arms around this and my vision has always been when everyone gets stagnant that's when I get creative Yeah so you're right there's a lot of disruption coming on and a lot of disruption is the economics of the new stuff is so much different than the old stuff there's that transition going on and that's a great opportunity for innovation isn't it? Yes it absolutely is So what about advice to young people looking to get into the data business how are we to find that trying to get into the data ocean what would you advise the kids in college kids coming out of college staying in school thinking about going into the spinach study data science math and that's what I was going to say is this whole new cool funky role called the data scientist first of all it shouldn't necessarily be envisioned as some guy sitting around with glasses and his little note pad and his pocket and pens this is actually a really glamorous role I think it's something that we should aspire for is to be someone who's a reputable expert on data I think is sexy and I think that it's a much needed asset instead of today we go out there and we use the term I want to hire a data scientist we all know what that means in the technology community but how many are really out there and so long term there's going to be so much data that we're gathering and storing and because we all believe you don't get rid of a single piece of data that who's going to go through it so I think I feel like there's going to be a really solid revival in what we call data analysts what a data analyst was and what they are today are two different things so I think that that's a really good space for people to go from like a college intern opportunity into a data scientist role the data scientist will become like the DBA of the past Hal Varian's comment about data sciences being the sexy job and of course we were at MIT a few weeks ago and Mike Rappo is a professor at North Carolina State they run actually probably the premier data science training and education curriculum in the country and he was saying that his students coming out of college make $150,000 to $200,000 right out of the bat so it is lucrative as well it is a very lucrative position and if anyone's looking Deborah, great to have you on the Cube really appreciate your comments and your predictions and your bold statements and also great knowledge, thanks for sharing this is SiliconANGLE with you on the Cube we'll be right back with our next guest after this short break, this is two days of exclusive wall-to-wall coverage of the HP Big Data 2013, the Vertical User Conference a lot of great stuff here, more use cases more customer stories, more technology discussions here inside the Cube, we'll be right back after this short break


Yeah, it is a cricket-loaded week on the Sports Mag Zone and it continues in this segment. We reached deep into the archives to relive the last time before Sunday that West Indies won a test in Australia. 27 years ago, the Windies playing at the WACA managed a 10 wicket win to end the series on a high. Brian Lara hit a first innings 132, while there were five wicket holes for both Sir Kurt LeAmbros with 5-4-4-3 in the first innings, and Courtney Walshu grabbed 5-4-7-4 in the second. Fosier Mohamed, who celebrated his 10th year as a cricket commentator when the Windies last won a test in Australia before the weekend, of course, joins us on our trip down memory lane. Of course, that 1996-97 series ending 3-2 in favour of Australia, Australia winning games 1, 2, and 4, West Indies winning games 3 and 5. Fosier Mohamed, what do you remember from that entire series and the final test in terms of the context that it was played in? You're right, Ricardo, a very different context, because then the West Indies were just beginning to decline kings because it was a five-test series. It was actually the first test series the West Indies had lost in Australia since 1975-76. And it was automatic that the West Indies, when going to Australia, would play five test matches. So very different now, the context of that famous victory just a couple of days ago. But yes, at the WACA, which is the ground no longer used for test match cricket, at least men's test match cricket. But it's sort of like a spiritual home for the West Indies. Because when the West Indies, when they're in 1976, they won by an innings. When they're again in 1984-85 and 88-89, they won again 1992-93. They also won this time to clinch the series about in 1996-97, even though when the series already settled, Australia unbeatable at 3-1 ahead, there was still the expectation that the West Indies, Farsmullers, Ambrose, Walsh, Bishop would have led the charge. And as it turned out, they really steamrolled Australia to a 10-wicket win. You speak about the 1996-1997 series. Can you give us a bit of the storylines that would have been leading up to that match? Because I remember, of course, I was not around. But I read, well, I was born, but not functional. Let me just say that. I was like a little kid, right? Because Ricardo is already laughing when I say I was not around. I was a kid. So Fars, the storylines leading into the match. Because just like this one that we had recently, where, you know, we'll tell the story about seven debut tons, of course, a lot of players like Shamar Joseph and that too, I remember watching a documentary and Kurt Lee Ambrose, I think, had an injury. So maybe you can tell us a bit about the storylines leading into that. Yes. He picked up that injury during the Tri-Nation series. Now, again, that was an era when the visiting team would play five test matches in dispersed with a Tri-Nation limited over series. You'd play a test match, maybe two back-to-back. Then you'd play about four or five one-dington half-dolls. And it was a triangular series. This time around, Pakistan were the other visitors to Australia for that 1996-97 campaign. And it was a situation where the West Indies and Pakistan played the best of three finals. Australia didn't make it to the final. But the cost for the West Indies was an injury to Kurt Lee Ambrose in the decisive third and final match. Sorry, the second match because Pakistan won two in a row. The second match and he got an injury in Melbourne. And because of that, it ruled him out of the subsequent test match in Adelaide. And that was a major setback for the West Indies. The concern then was, is it going to be a situation where Ambrose would also miss the final test match to know that he was fitting up? Because every fast baller wants to be fit Mariah for the Waka. The Waka is a fast baller's paradise. Because again, just to give it some context, one of the other talking points was huge cracks appearing on the pitch. Even on day one, because it was a bit of a heat wave going through that part of Australia, Western Australia. And as much as the ground staff tried their best, there were massive cracks which opened up on that surface. And it made it even more treacherous for the teams, for the batsmen, especially of course, having to concentrate, watching these wide cracks knowing that at any instant, one of those deliveries could pitch there and do absolutely anything, even do harm to the batsmen. Right, and the beauty of Brian Lara's century, because in the same documentary that I was watching, I remember somebody talking about a lot of chatter and banter on the field between the Aussies and the West Indians. And I think that added to the beauty of the match. But talk to me about that century. Well, Brian Lara at the start of the series, remember he had already had that phenomenal year of 1994, World Record 375, World First World Record 501, not out, a lot of centuries in a row at the start of his England Community career with Warwickshire. But in 1995, he didn't have the series that many had hoped for. The West Indians surrendered the Franco-European trophy, losing that series in the Caribbean by two matches to one, famously losing by innings at Savannah Park in Kingston, Jamaica. Then came 1996-97 with Lara as vice-captain to Courtney Walsh. And Lara really struggled against Glenn McGrath. He struggled so badly in the first couple of test matches that he surrendered the number three position to Shiv Narayan Chandrapur. Chandrapur took on that challenge and really played with great gusto in many ways. But still, the talk was, would this series finish without Brian Lara getting a test hundred? Well, as it turned out, at the wacker, at the fastest pitch against some quality bowling, he was finally able to get on top of the Australian bowling, the fast bowlers, McGrath, Gillespie, and of course, the outstanding spinner, Shane Warn, to get to that hundred. Yeah, and as you speak there, Farz, we see the huge cracks on the pitch there as Brian Lara faced up with his majestic batting. Can you talk to us briefly, Farz, about the coverage? Because cricket coverage now is much different from what it was then. And certainly, radio coverage was huge during that period, not so much now. Reds, Pereira, the late Tony Cosier, yourself would have been a part of that period of coverage. And Australia Tours were Tours that, as commentators, you had looked forward to. Absolutely. Well, that was my first tour and that fulfilled a dream for me, because I wanted to fulfill two dreams in life, one, spiritually making the pilgrimage to Makhan, Medina and Saudi Arabia. I did that. And to go to Australia, not just to Australia, but to the wacker for a test match, because I remember 75-76, for a French 169, Clyde Lloyd-149, and Roberts, seven wickets in the second innings, Westerlies, winning by innings in four days. And I was entranced by it. And I always wanted to fulfill that dream, which, thank God, I did. But yeah, the coverage was Channel 9, because they were the dominant television medium at the time in Australia. Radio, you had, of course, Tony Cosier, Reds, Pereira. I would have been not considered good enough at that time to be part of the radio commentary team, because who could be better than Cosier and Pereira, in that sense? But you did some work for us at the Caribbean News Agency, didn't you, on that tour? For which I was eternally grateful, because in that picture, we had some massive debt from that campaign. And indeed, the support of Kana Radio, as it was at the time, was significant, because it allowed me to get that opportunity. But more importantly, rather than be preoccupied with myself, it really was a series where many people were saying, look, maybe the West Indies are coming up towards the end of that great era, but maybe the Franco-Warrior trophy carries greater status than the ashes. I remember my call, even having that discussion with him, the noted Australian journalist and broadcaster, saying that, yes, there's all this automatic preoccupation with the ashes, but the interest in Australia beating the West Indies with Mark Taylor as captain in the Caribbean in 1995, and defending it successfully in Australia in 1996-97, it was dominated. Everything about that series should watch have been captain. Was Lara the leader in waiting? There were so many subplots and stories that kept the media at all levels before the age of social media and the full growth of the internet, they were really preoccupied and obsessed with what was going on. Yes, Farz, and I was just going there because Walsh had been captain for the series, but he would be replaced as the captain soon after that by the Prince. Indeed, and again, just taking it a bit further, because Walsh remained captain for another year. He went to Pakistan in 1997 and the West Indies lost all three test matches, two by any means, one by ten, because Lara's best score was probably about 37, and there was a lot of feeling at that time, a lot of ill feeling. When we talk about Jamaica, Trinidad and Tobago, and the insularity, that there was something going on there. There was a famous occasion when Trinidad and Tobago were playing Jamaica in a 50-over-a-side match in Jamaica, and at the time, comments were being made and things were being said on behalf of both parties, and it resulted in the toss being taken with Walsh opting not to take the field for the toss. But then we saw famously, what we were showing, what a magnanimous individual he was, after Lara replaced him as captain in 1998, the year after after the debacle of the South African tour, coming onto the field at Sabina Park to a hail of booze from everyone in the ground, Walsh put his arm over the shoulder of Lara to send a message that, look, we will all be disappointed that I'm not captain anymore, but this is my captain. So he was man enough, big enough to put aside whatever individual disappointments for the sake of West Indies cricket. Yeah, and following 1996-1997 fires up to the 1999-2000 tour of New Zealand, the West Indies were still ranked in the top three in the world in test cricket, in fact, up to that New Zealand tour in the number three position, and that's despite the loss to Pakistan that you spoke about, the debacle in South Africa of that 5-0 defeat. I want to get a clearer understanding, though, about coming out of that 1996-1997 series against Australia, what the general feeling was about the trajectory of West Indies cricket? It's an interesting one, because famously, West Hall, the manager at the time, referred to the Sabina Park defeat to Australia in 1995 as an aberration. It was, of course, because at that time, West Indies were dominant. They'd gone 15 years without losing a series, but there seemed to be a refusal, a steadfast refusal, to accept that that decline was happening, not just because of 1995, but even before the West Indies escaped against Pakistan in 1988, one all, where they could possibly have been 3-0 for Pakistan. Two, they could have been 2-0 for England, where the West Indies wasting time in Trinidad and Tobago to avoid defeat in the second test match. So the signs were there. So after 1996-1997, there was a feeling of unease, what is going to happen next? And one of the interesting points, which many people don't look at, Robert Samuels, his last test match for the West Indies, was at the Waka, that match we are talking about. His score was 76 and 35, not out, and he never played for the West Indies again. Stuart Williams was brought in to open the batting with Sherwin Campbell. So you got that feeling that, look, something is happening that is really not in the best interest of West Indies cricket, whether it was a case of player power, whether it was a case of pulling and tugging between important individuals, whether it was the selectors themselves. But that series that followed against India, which the West Indies won 1-0, with that famous low-sporing match in Barbados with Lara deputizing as captain in place of Walsh, the way that series went seemed to suggest that the West Indies were going to find it very, very hard to recapture anything like the glory it is, and so it proved. Yeah, Faiz, I just want you in 30 seconds because you spoke about Robert Samuels, he hit the winning runs in that fifth test, and the commentator, I did not understand the context of it when I watched it, but the commentator said, as part of his commentary, well, he's proven that he's not a loser or something like that, and I just couldn't understand the context of where that comment was coming from. Around that time, the discussion was about Robert Samuels, is he the right man for the job because you had Adrian Griffith, showing Campbell Robert Samuels. There seemed to be a reluctance, even in the West Indies camp, to identify him as having that personality because Robert is that laid-back, sort of easygoing post, when you watch him, his movements on the field very languid and so on. For whatever reason, it just didn't seem to strike a responsive chord with the decision-makers in West Indies cricket, and again, notwithstanding his contribution in that final test, when he was at last given an opportunity to open the batting, he didn't play again for the West Indies, so yeah, you would hear lots of comments about, is he really the man with the right stuff to open the batting for the West Indies, but unfortunately, he was never given another chance. Yeah, very much. And West Indies kept changing openers, as you pointed out. Adrian Griffith, Stuart Williams, then came the likes of Wavelhines and Chris Gale, and yeah, the list goes on. Fazz, it's been a pleasure, as usual, chatting with you. Who knew that that fifth test victory in 1997 would be the last for the West Indies in Australia for 27 years, and that it would take a 24-year-old who had played limited first-class cricket to bowl the West Indies the victory down under. Fazz, it's been a pleasure. We'll chat again soon. Take care. That's reminding me of how old I am. Break time!