Today May 40 here when I get back to the topic about What do we do with the lonely and at those who just don't? Bring anything to the table that they they are such a downside to your life because they're so toxic right people who are incapable of Normal human connection like what do we do with those people? So I was listening to a fascinating episode of decoding the gurus. It was talking about The 2012 poor Thomas Anderson movie the master, which is seems to be based on Scientology Anyway, we got Kyle back Kyle and any thoughts on this topic? We'll shooting audio for the past little while. So can you hear me? Yes, I can hear you fine. Thank you All right, so the topic I was thinking about was this This issue of people who people don't want around or people who are lonely Have difficulties making social connections I Think I would weight things more heavily towards People Deciding that they don't want these connections mostly right I think that People tend to be of two minds. Everyone is of two minds when it comes to people on one hand people Desire connection they want friends. They want positive experiences, but on the other hand people are also they come with downsides, right? And I think what happens a large fraction of the as opposed to This is distinct from hurting them this is distinct from being abusive I Think people can get extremely extremely abusive and still find Social connections still find a lot of social connections, but what Makes it so that they can't connect is when they specifically push people away Which maybe that they're not even conscious of but they but they tend to go down some script where? Yes, what they do may be hurtful, but Much more importantly, it's also designed to push other people away and Let's talk about let's talk about me. Why can't I maintain a group coming coming on the show? I just have such a great crowd of contributors and I've been unable to Maintain that you have any thoughts well, I can only talk about You know after the 2018 heyday when rushed in and you had like all the regulars on I recall like you used to have much bigger chats, right? than his tail and stuff, but In my experience a lot of the time you didn't seem to want people You know Okay, you either didn't want people on or you wanted people on under an extremely narrow set of terms which Essentially amounted to pushing them away, and it wasn't that you were mean and it wasn't that you were too demanding or Any of that you could at some points be abrasive, but that was not the problem the problem was quote-unquote problem You had very strong boundaries and you tended to push people directly away Right like people would come in and you'd be like don't talk, right? And you'd get extremely agitated if they would talk and you'd want to only speak at very specific points and Otherwise you wouldn't want them one of them on at all It's like a it's a form of setting boundaries in a way that pushes people away because you didn't want you would specifically say this You didn't want the drama You didn't want the Unpredictability of like a freewheeling conversation where people would jump in and out and all that sort of stuff, right? So you're of two minds you want this connection But then you also don't want the things that come with it And I think that the way it nets out is that you don't really want it you don't really want to have a show with tons of people on it and you know because you're of two minds you have the part of you that That that doesn't want to deal with all the drama and all the complication Any of the part that wants to have you know all these conversations and and viewers and and you know interesting stuff happening, right? I think that that that is what leads to the confusion, but You know, I just encourage you to remember how agitated you you found yourself when things went wrong, right? And how protective you were of your of your boundaries of the way you wanted the show to go I think that predominated That's yeah, that's really good analysis I mean that is exactly right and that's true on the show and in in real life But I'm so inflexible that I drive people away Like I want it down on my terms my way and it just becomes so inflexible for other people that they say forget this I've got better things to do But the way that you frame it you keep framing it in terms of like you being the victimizer But I don't think that's an accurate framing. I don't think that you're particularly You know Abusive or hurtful or any of that. I don't think that's the way right way to frame it I think you don't want to deal with all the problems that come with it with these With these connections, right? That's what I think I mean You spend huge amounts of time sort of berating yourself When you know to my knowledge you haven't done anything that bad. You're not a criminal You know, there are so many people sitting in prisons right now who are going to get out and they're gonna get out to you know an adoring suite of girlfriends and a Very rich social life involving a lot of danger and excitement and these are you know people who really do abuse people who really do you know Make people afraid for their life or or or afraid for their safety and and stuff like that, you know They're not they don't end up being total loners who who are kind of you know kind of hermit like and I think people who are total loners Who are kind of hermit like, you know can fall into this introspective trap or I don't know like they tend to be like Oh, well, what am I doing wrong? How am I hurting other people blah blah blah blah blah? But the real thing is that they don't want they don't want all the problems and all the all the stress and and and and you know They tend to have very high standards, right? So like There's this in cell phenomena right where people don't want Well, yeah, the way that they would put it is that people don't want to have sex with them But the way that other people would put it who are looking at them would say you don't want to have sex with people on Your level right now the same thing can happen socially you can have people who who would want to socialize quote unquote, but They would only want to do it under such circumstances that it only comes around very infrequently or maybe not at all, right? I think some people just you know, if you look at their behavior if you look at their attitude They don't really want all that much interaction They don't want it They don't act like they want it. They're not drawn to it, right? And then they're they're sad But it's like I don't know the I think it's it's it's It's incorrect to frame it in terms of in terms of them being abusive most of the time Right because as I've alluded to there are people who are extremely abusive, but they're drawn to people They always find themselves wanting to be they don't have to force themselves into social situations They're just naturally there, right? They're naturally drawn to it like one naturally eats and Other people are kind of naturally anorexic socially, right? they they naturally tend to hold themselves away and They don't wait that highly enough, right as as the major factor, you know Some part of them doesn't want doesn't want all this all this interaction So what is your what is your guess as to the percentage of the population that most Normal healthy people would have no incentive to have them around because that they are so predictably consistently a Negative it in one's life. I would put it at between 10 to 30 percent of the population is just Clearly anti-social and just bad for normal healthy people to have around Do you imagine that like people in prison Like the average person in prison when they come out there, you know young guy Let's paint a picture young Latino guy in prison, right? He comes out you think he does a lot of talking or do you think he sits in his room on its computer and and mopes about about how bad he's been to The people in his life, right? What do you think he does? Do you think he's always at parties? I think he's always at parties, okay? I think he gets in trouble because he's always, you know Who are they gonna go around and he has girlfriends and he has all this stuff and I just kind of reject the framing I think Other things are happening, right? Like it's not that they're people are I Think people are much more likely to be isolated because they're boring than because they're they're abusive first of all I think they're much more likely to be isolated because they're avoidant than because they're abusive and I think they're much more likely to be isolated because Because they're unhealthy, right? Like there was a Fellow I knew who was an older man and he was a smoker at COPD He had a bunch of issues and He was divorced and so like you look at the situation objectively. This is a fellow who you know He's at a stage in his life where he's kind of boring and crippled up and By this stage in your life, if you if you're gonna have social connection It's gonna have to be mostly connections that you've already forged, right?  That's how I would characterize the the the vast loneliness and emptiness and deaths of despair that we see You know tremendous numbers of people going through Whereas people who are just too abusive I Think there's there's some of that maybe maybe one or two percent of the population is is It's not it's not that they're too abusive. It's that they they don't know how to dance the dance, right? They they step on people's toes socially they're they're autistic or something on the spectrum and they they Consistently disrupt whatever they're whatever they're in but but even then I know someone Who is known for this right like I in the pre-corona days? I would go to discussion groups You know debate groups and stuff like that and there was one person who was known to arrive at these groups and You know destroy them pretty much pretty reliably right through through through their behavior and you know Their social life is still pretty pretty full because they keep going to the groups, right? and they keep on finding new people to the talk to and You know, they never stop wanting that connection and they don't get discouraged So, you know, this keeps happening, right? if they were They were gonna look for it and they were gonna like oh well I must recuse myself after after this and I must spend a lot of time on live streams You know talking to a few people about all the bad things I've done, you know people with that attitude I don't think do that much harm, right because they're too They're too busy sort of, you know They're too mired in self-regard, right people who really do a lot of social harm Don't don't have almost any self-regard at all and just merely go from from community to community blowing them up, right? This is a this is an archetype and these people I don't don't strike me as particularly lonely So but yeah, I agree. There's maybe one or two percent of the population that is that is just too autistic too disruptive Too unable to dance the social dance and so people don't want to interact with them Not so much because they're bad a lot of bad people keep on You know merrily cramping through group after group or in person after person But because they they can't they can't do the kind of an initial dance with people So there's there's a there's a big difference in our perception of reality I perceive between 10 percent and 30 percent of the population are just gonna be Just gonna have clearly a net negative effect on on others So you can call this anti-social personality disorder but we're talking about people have a long-term pattern of disregard for or violation of the rights of others and difficulty verging on impossibility of sustaining long relationships, so I essentially see this as as accounting for Between 10 and 30 percent of the population and you see this as accounting for between 1 and 2 percent of the population. Is that fair? Yeah, I think that's true Okay, so what do we do? now Do you agree with me that human connection is the primary factor in personal happiness? and effectiveness for most people I mean, this is kind of a question like do you agree that water is one of the primary factors in in in human happiness, right? I mean it is if it's lacking, but it strikes me as a very myopic perspective to Like it's projection, right? I don't think that most people have the Human connection can be very broad right include literally everything that you do if you're if you're broad enough But I don't think that that loneliness specifically is Is a major factor in more than 30% of people's lives Okay, you don't think loneliness is a major factor in more than 30% of people's lives, right? Yeah, and I would say loneliness is a factor probably Yeah, I'd say 30 to 40 percent but Let's say the remaining 70 percent I would say that the happiness level and effectiveness level of the remaining 70 percent is Primarily determined by the level of their relationships Like it's hard to be happy if you have a miserable marriage. It's hard to be happy and effective if you don't have friends Yes, I agree with that Okay, so what do we do then so we essentially agree that that happiness and effectiveness that there is a socially effective personality type and And you know some some people are more socially effective than others What do we do? Where do the people go who are not socially effective the people who who are lonely and Who just don't know how to make their way in in an ordinary world and and therefore a particularly prone to the only people who celebrate them are virtual communities and courts and and con artists and People who are just desperate for converts to their their group. I Think we used to have a social fabric that Tried to weave people in and that social fabric is being torn apart and the result of that is You know, a lot of people don't have a place But there's another way to look at it right a lot of people don't don't want to have a place They don't want to make the sacrifices, you know, they they They enjoy the sewing but not the reaping like I'm thinking of of a lady who was You know basically gallivanted around further for her whole life didn't do didn't do any saving didn't marry basically had fun her whole life and then you know Complained very bitterly that her family who she disregarded entirely Wasn't wasn't providing her the support that she that she wanted in her old age, right? I know we tend to forget that these these old systems that will people in they also came with a Big bite with a big sting in the tail So I think that you know I Want to Emphasize the role of human choice here where people I think a lot of this can be framed as people are choosing They don't they don't want the problems that go along with with membership in in communities But like the the framework is there for for for membership, right? You you simply have to make sacrifices instead of speaking your mind. You have to tow the party line You have to you have to put a significant amount of your time into some group and I think that people doing that Would would find themselves Having the old social ties, but they prefer the freedom and then they enjoy complaining about the downsides of the freedom I'm just realizing, you know, how much my my soul is still in lockdown I mean, like I I Instantly enjoyed the lockdown so much because I I could just stay at home and read books and and I'm just I'm just kind of humbled by by how much my own soul is still in lockdown and And how inflexible I am in my interactions with other people How do you navigate? The the challenges of community friendship human connection While maintaining autonomy and and freedom and and avoiding strangling ties Well, I think it's a It's a life phase thing.  I When I want connection I Join groups. I I make friendships, you know, we go out to dinner that kind of thing I think I Have my own avoidant tendencies and you know, if I'm honest with myself. It's well, it's tempting to Say, oh, what was me? What was me? You know, I don't have this. I don't have that but The reality is that you know that the values that I honor in the breach as it were are, you know I I like to sit down and read I've always liked this by the way like even as a child, you know, I would I would spend my summers reading book after book, right? I would I would you know my What one of my favorite times was was when I would in the summer I would have no school I would I would read like a few chapters of a book. I would get outside I would I would go on a bike ride on my own in the in the beautiful Fresh sunny air and then I would come back and I would read read You know the next third of the book and and and then out again and that was a very beautiful time for me and I think I'm just a person who is Very content alone, you know Most of the time and then sometimes I'm very sad about it, right and when I'm very sad about it, it's you know It's difficult for me To It can be difficult at some time at some points to realize that my my current position is the result of My preferences and my actions You know in the very recent past Yeah, we have such similar personalities. I mean you're essentially Articulating my and my own life story there I'm just curious when have you been happiest for me. I have been happiest when I've been integrated into a community I remember I went on a two-week Jewish singles trip to Israel I had a blast it was fantastic because I was around a group the whole time And then I went off to Greece for a week on my own and it was such a left out. It was so It was so wrenching and sad compared to that feeling of community and so when I remember one Friday night, I went to church and just feeling alone and Someone from my class like came downstairs and said hey, we're all sitting up here And so I went upstairs where other members of my class were and I just got to sit with them during the Friday night service and just had a ball just had a blast just had a Fantastic time and so when I got integrated into, you know, the lives of the people around me I have just those have been the happiest Happiest times of my life. So I'm curious when you when you think back The happiest times of your life. Have they been when you're sitting alone reading a book? probably not probably it's It's It's playing with friends to be honest. I mean, yes, yeah When when friendship is at its best, but like The situations that you outline that you like are kind of situations with no downside, right? It's where you get the social interaction, but you don't get the the The attendant obligations and the way you tell your life story is one where you sort of go from group to group From religion to religion, I think this this reflects That you feel chafed By the by the restrictions of these communities or or you find yourself butting heads or whatever there's friction, right? And I Think the thing I would like to see you change in terms of your your your self-regard or the way that you look at your life story And obviously, I don't know as much as you do. I don't know a tenth or a hundred as much as you do but just my perspective from the Little window I have into your into your life is I'd say you should You kind of accept the legitimacy of the part of you that doesn't want these ties, right? You become You know it results in you being much freer like infinitely freer than than you would have been and You should admit that you like the freedom you should admit that that that social interaction and and membership in groups comes with downsides and you know often you might not be given giving the part of yourself that that Rejects those those downsides enough credit or enough recognition or you know, maybe it's not integrated enough into your into your view of yourself Tell you about the the most painful decision. I made it in my life in in December of 1997 I decided I wanted to write about Dennis Prager on on a blog and All my friends in LA I had in common with Dennis Prager Like I went to synagogue with Dennis Prager like all my friends with Dennis Prager fans and My my closest friends told me Luke if you write about Dennis Prager, we will never talk to you again and So I chose to do it and I lost all my friends in LA and I was so lonely after that I was so Broken after that that I started going to an astrologer to Like try to heal my relationship with Dennis Prager now out of that loneliness and despair like I found a path forward Like I did enjoy the freedom and and I did you know kind of get to break out of that particular you know narrow Mindset and so, you know with time there came many benefits from from that choice But it was absolutely wrenching at the time to like lose all my friends in LA Because I wanted to blog about one radio personality.  You're you're Pooping in the punchbowl for no reason but another way to look at it is that people are kind of Well people have their downsides and in this case like You know what I witnessed of you in the in the dissident right sphere is that you're one of the most thoughtful one of one of the most one of the most insightful people in the space to be honest and the reaction to your insight and the reaction to To you know your realizations and your and your honest approach to this to this space has basically resulted in you being isolated Because you keep on breaking the rules of the group you're in and in the case that I was directly witness to that was the dissident right you know you would you brought these people on and You know you did your intellectual exploration honestly and people don't like that people really don't like that and I think that you know I I I surmise at the moment that something similar was going on there, you know, Kroger strikes me as a intelligent man, but also a Fairly pompous person someone who is it was not all that open to criticism and you know his old group strikes me that way and You know people are kind of gross the way they respond to criticism right? it's kind of contemptible and I I have found that that Yeah, the reason why I came on your show was that you were one of the more admirable figures in this in this whole this is a right you know spit up and you know That's what I would say give yourself a certain amount of credit And also understand that you know the deal you made by being honest is one where you're going to be isolated, right? People don't like honesty It's not entirely that right. It's also It's also being maybe inflexible maybe pushing people away, but You know, don't neglect the part where these communities that you know membership in these communities that you're talking about, right? It comes with a with a big downside, which is that all these communities have They're all pretty arrogant. They're they're they're all you know people in groups people in mobs represent the worst of humanity, right and Even if they're an up-jump mob like like the Catholic Church, you know you can still see all those tendencies that you see in a in a crowd of jeering students, you know that I've seen in person where a crowd of jeering students will will just circle someone and throw things at them and and Behaving just in a completely abominable fashion. You can see the same things in every group, right? so that that's the downside is that You know, you're gonna be asked if you join any group of any significance to join that jeering, you know a crowd of complete moral monsters and And do it uncritically, right? That's that's kind of the deal. That's that's the way these these these These eight behaviors work, right? I think we're an evolved Species and we evolved to mob just like crows do just like chimps do we are a a mobbing Species and if you won't join a mob, you're gonna find yourself alone and that's part of the story, right? and especially it's especially intemperable when when these groups form with the nominal purpose of of Exploring the truth no matter where it leads Which I think is the case for for for Prager's group and the case for for the Catholic Church and in the case for for a lot of such groups they will profess themselves to be the haven for truth seekers and and and Such and then they will behave In precisely the way that you see That you see a crowd of school children behave They'll behave in a in a clannish way they'll behave in a beastly way and you know, that's how humans are and I Think you feel that pretty keenly and you tend to that tends to net out and you're not wanting the membership, right? Or at least And you're refusing to abide by the community standards, right? I Desperately desperately want the membership, but I'm not willing to keep my mouth shut and so I I Tried to maintain a membership that is not possible Given the things that I feel like I must say and so I destroy the membership I didn't just walk away gracefully It's like with all the Trump supporters who believe the 2020 election was stolen So in many things I I sighed with with Trump and his supporters But I do not believe the election was stolen and I didn't have any intellectual respect For those who try to make that case because I haven't seen any evidence for it, right? But another thing I'll say is that like if you were if you were I think you could get away with it And you could still have a giant Rolodex and all these things If it weren't for the other side of the coin where you're also you also have very very strong boundaries and and You seem apt to get deeply offended or at least yeah, yeah, I think that's true. I think you you were You are easy to wound and easy to offend Whereas if you took everything in a more playful manner and you would you know You would take your licks as it were and you would bounce back and you'd sort of let it let it If it to you was not carried so heavily if it was like water off a duck's back I think you could get away with with violating all these standards and you know doing these arguably You know anti-group or even anti-social things and you'd still have you know You you would have no no lack of connection with the people who are members of the of these groups, but you know you have these these two traits of sort of honesty and willingness or or even desire to confront group delusions and also your your kind of you you have very strong boundaries and you're a little inflexible and you you aren't You aren't that desiring of human connection relative to I think the the human average, right? Yeah, I think that the human average is to want to spend about eight hours a day around other people and my my inclinate well my my Habit or pattern is often just spending an hour a day around other people So well, I think think you know spending at least four hours a day around other people would definitely be in my self interest But my default goes to much much less human interaction that would be good for me I'm just curious about you is your is your natural default for human interaction set at a lower state than would be good for you For sure. Yeah, I think so although again good for you is a You know, there are times when lacking human connection makes you very very miserable There are also there's also misery that is avoided, right? Which is which is something that you need to you need to also put on the on the ledger there Yeah, and how I think flexibility is really important, right? You can be you can be very very You can be very easy to wound and you can be very Very quick to wound others and you can still have a Lot of connection if you're if you're also flexible, right? if you're also willing to sort of take things as as they come and And you know keep on keep on interacting even if it gets very unpleasant, right?  I've I've closed myself off and I'm streaming to 10 people Now, what are you people?  Well, I mean a big part of it is is a is always Continuing to to ask on people who who were who were there previously like like you'll do this thing where you're like the doors always open for for all these old people to to come on and stuff but You know, that's not how I would bet that's not how people feel Right, I would bet that they don't feel that there was open and you just saying that doesn't really doesn't really make it so You know, you'd have to kind of you know be more expressive and I'm not sure if that's your authentic self or not but yeah like The the way things concluded At least in in the places where I witnessed it was was in a manner where it seemed like You didn't want these people back, right? And some of them I don't I gotta admit some of them. I do not want back right right in that in their current state anyway right Yeah, I mean, it's a it's a big it's a big bundle of headaches. I mean if you most of the Most of the streamers the big-time streamers seem to confess to feelings of anxiety and depression and you know all kinds of You know all kinds of natural results of the stressors of Continuing to maintain a large community, right? It's a it's a painful thing back northern What kind of community standards would you have on your show? You know, I think community standards are entirely the wrong approach basically like I think that the healthy thing to do is to Have people violate your boundaries get angry Banned them and then forgive them right kind of in that order whereas this community standards thing like Emphasizing like like a big set of rules Has the effect of like creating a wall right like like a wall of frost It's better to be to be you know Intermittently fiery and then warm then to then to sort of narrow down interaction into into a very very small prescribed set of set of set of norms and You know, you're just mostly turn people away by doing that I think that's kind of my my thought like obviously you should have boundaries and protect them And the way you should do that I think is it's healthier done the way that Almost everyone does it which is just to ban people when you annoy when they're when they annoy you Just just just ban them, you know yell at them a bit and ban them and then let them back in Like you know imagine that that you're parenting someone and Instead of just just disciplining them when they do something wrong you respond by creating like like a new rule that's set in stone until they're just sort of They're just walking some trip wire of like oh well It is this rule and that rule and this rule and that rule and you know again It has the effect of pushing people away, but Yeah standards. Yes, the standard should be should be Enforced in a human way by by you and your moderator team and it's people who are annoying You know people who are disruptive you ban them and let them back in after a while And then if they keep doing it then eventually they're banned permanently. That's what I think and You know trying to prescribe human interaction into into a set of rules You know, I don't think it's it's it's really worth it Hmm and did you pay any attention to mr. Maddica versus Nick point us Yeah, but like in the keynote casino You know the return of blood sports, I think it's I don't know I think in a sense people don't give Nick enough credit because Like what he's doing is incredibly difficult like you know being a live streamer and maintaining a large audience You know without without any any partners Really on a stream like he's doing solo streams for many many hours and he's maintaining viewership that that takes a lot of wackiness, right? You know, it's it's a stream of consciousness style where you're gonna be able to isolate, you know any parts you want and you know say that it's You know make him look crazy but I don't know I'm not unhappy about the way that the the The this isn't right, you know, the all right has has imploded because as I as I sort of went through my journey on your show I kind of realized that they're Their their main their main thing is is being anti-semitic So it's like that's cool. That can be your thing, but I hope you you fail Hope you hope you experience as much pain as possible. I'm hostile to To anti-semitic because they're hostile to me. I'm kind of a reciprocal guy And I don't think it has to be more complicated than that.  I Mean I guess I guess medica won but it's It's difficult to say who won when you have these two communities that are utterly, you know divergent right, I Think Nick is trying to do his own thing and these these medica people are trying to do their own thing and there's no There's no moral consensus between these groups at all, right? They they nominally seem very similar. They're both kind of right-wing all right-ish people Who are you know for internet personalities? But when you come down to it they have like completely different goals and and values and aspirations Yeah Like a yeah, like Nick has created or Nick has joined a kind of you know a A group of people who are who are like dark matter, you know to the to the rest of society, right? They have their own very specific perspective and he's kind of been been sucked into that rather than co-opting it, right?  Medica Yeah, I mean the keynote casino I noticed that they tend to Kind of frame themselves as being aloof even though they pretend not to right they they tend to act as if they're they're better than this But you know, I think that that they're all They're all kind of cut from the same cloth to be honest. They all seem pretty crazy pretty antisocial Pretty resentful right? The resentment is a is big They they resent each other just to rather astonishing extent and they hold on to grudges and it's entertaining. I mean People like to watch that which is Yeah, I don't know it's part of why becoming a streamer It's like you you might say oh I want an audience But do you want the things that come with the audience right? Do you want do you want to cater to the tastes of the audience?  They want they want personal destruction. They want destructive behavior And I suppose, you know people can do that right it's like jackass right it's like the popularity of jackass That's what people want so when I say I'd rather I'd rather have 10 people watching a Show where I talk about what I want rather than a thousand live viewers Watching you know a blood sports that I'm hosting do you think I'm fooling myself you think I'm trying to fill the audience You think I'm being true to myself. I think you have two minds I think that you're kind of sad about the death of your channel and then you're and then you're also like happy enough to deal with it with the drama and Yeah, you want to work on combining those John Wolf says their antisocial unlike yourself I certainly have antisocial tendencies and I'll admit it right Antisocial and avoid in tendencies sure you're using antisocial in the meaning of not wanting to be social But as the term is used Technically it means to have a disregard of and violate the rights of others Yeah, I mean so which which antisocial are you I think on on the show I was at times aggressive and you know cruel and You know just generally badly behave that didn't comport myself in the in a kind manner I think it's because I I'm just not that kind. That's what I think I don't think that I I can see you know, especially the political tendencies of These folks reflected in me in some ways and and also the personal tendencies in terms of I'm a fairly angry person and You know, I maybe I lash out more than I should and all that especially on on this show So I'll I'll cop to that. I don't really I Don't know I Think that the way that these people operate is Is I Think that they don't like They don't like each other right they really don't like each other and we saw a similar kind of thing evolve on on this show at certain points where You know, we had a bunch of characters evolve really intense like for each other and we had feuds and we had like I Don't know if we had doxings, but we had something next to doxings and I think it reflected the personalities of the people involved Yeah, things things got kind of dark On this on this in the lucro sphere and it reflected the tendencies of the people there more than anything else So it seems like almost nobody on the distant right has been able to sustain group streaming Well, I mean, I guess Ethan Ralph does a group show But what do you what do you make of the? the inability generally speaking of people on the distant right to be able to maintain a Group show and instead dissolving into often, you know needless flame wars and recriminations, I mean, I think it's mostly I think it's more normal than maybe maybe you're making it out to be like if you if you follow the left at all You see a lot of similar things happening a lot of similar things and I think that Like fundamentally, we might be underweighting the the young man factor. I think young men are assholes That's what I think Ricardo says I would ragdoll Kyle if I wanted to I Don't think that's what happened on the stream, bro, but I don't think we're gonna have a rematch Um Yeah, it's just I think young men are assholes. I think that that's that's an underweighted factor You know, you can look around the globe and you can look at English soccer fans and you can look at at, you know, the African the African problems and You know, you can look from the very very northern tip of the world to the very southern tip of the world And you can see young men acting like complete assholes in ways that are even even more anti-social and even more nasty than Than the young men in online politics groups and online politics chats online so So in these feuds, I mean they're going after each other's family. I mean, there's absolutely nothing sacred I mean when test will say, you know, Christ is king and then say well, mr.  You're irrelevant. I mean went as his behavior just seems to be the opposite of Christ is king Medica the nihilist and and sticks and hammer the person into the occult or So-called Satanist, you know seem far more Christ-like than Nick Fuentes any thoughts Yeah, I don't know.  They'll run around. They'll beat people to an inch of their lives You know what where the rule of law is is less strong They'll do far worse things and clearly their behavior is you know on a vector towards that clearly if there weren't police These young men would be killing people right killing people not, you know doxing Bro, I posted your address online, bro This is this is super. This is super super big deal, bro. They have your address, bro I mean people kill people Right, that's what young people men want to do young men want to kill as a rule. I think they want to literally kill people Right, yeah, so this is not on the scale of antisocial behavior. This is this doesn't really register that much At all so I guess I kind of reject the premise Where like this is this is all remarkably anti-social. I think it might be more normal than then we're admitting the whole thing the whole the whole thing where we're You know groups of young men get together and argue. I don't think it generally turns out that harmoniously, you know, no matter what I don't think I don't think it's in the cards So what's more pro-social doing a blood sports with 1,000 live viewers or doing a Stream where you just talk about what you want to talk about and have only 10 live viewers Clearly the second is more pro-social, but I don't think that either are not meaningfully Antisocial or pro-social I think it's mostly like a question of what you want and you know all these interactions are are even more voluntary than a group of people meeting in a Meat space, right? Like anyone can leave at any time You know people can can get psychological damage from these things, but it reflects their own Their own kind of tendencies and their own weaknesses and their own problems that they have to work out Even more than say MMA or cage fighting matches reflect the the tendencies and the problems of people who end up there, right? It's not like in a cage fighting arena the people there were literally forced there at gunpoint That would be a completely different situation, but as it is they're there as a reflection of their own tendencies of their own desires And if it wasn't expressed in that way it might be expressed in another way So there's some responsibility for the people who the people who run the cage match, but not not that much, right? I don't think it's it's fundamentally just You know taking taking human energies that would be that that exist in this direction in this kind of antisocial angry direction How much responsibility do you think I I bear for asking Casey to do some shows on my comp? Oh None really I mean you're kind of being a scholar to be honest I mean you're you're being someone who you're you're approaching things in a scholarly manner in If it's wrong to do what you did in in exploring You know Hitler's ideology then you know the whole Western civilization is wrong in terms of how it approaches these questions, which it might be but You know, I don't think that anything you did there was was out of bounds at all and in terms of you know exploring these ideas as Honestly and as forthrightly as you could How do you then understand an English literature professor who's married who's about 40 years of age who's got kids and then spirals It seems after reading mind-comp. How do you understand that? I think a lot of people are I'm not been exposed to who to an honest An honest discussion about history and honest, you know exploration of ideologies and it's not that much of a surprise to me that it Would destabilize people especially people who are or a Christian frankly. I think people who are Christian That anytime really but especially today, you know it kind of reflects Reflects a lack of exploration and a vulnerability to to the new ideologies to new ideas because you know people who who freely explore Who freely explore Ideologies who freely explore philosophy and all that stuff. They generally don't end up vanilla Christians You know, maybe they end up some kind of non-denominational crazy thing, but They don't end up being vanilla Christians almost ever as far as I can see so Christians are pretty vulnerable to this and then that's why Christianity is dying That's why you know Christian prevalence of Christianity is is dropping like a stone because it's very vulnerable to to free exploration Maybe everything is but Christianity definitely is It seems for people like Casey and Nick Fuentes the Christ is king is just a much more appealing Banner for their for their politics rather than, you know, why it is right Yeah, yeah, I think so. I mean, it's a it's a way of being sneakily anti-semitic or not that sneakily anti-semitic But no, no, it's more than that. It's also You know a righteous anger at at the the changes that have come over society which which have wrong-puted lots of people Right like let's not forget that that context is that we've had a giant social revolution and there have been casualties and Among these casualties are our sexual standards and social standards that would result in in certain benefits for some people and yeah Like certainly we're seeing child abuse on a level that we wouldn't have seen like that That's that's an allegation of the right and it's correct. We're seeing a We're seeing the sexualization of children in a in a very frightening and and Probably harmful way. We're seeing the breakdown of the family where we're seeing you know the shattering or the tearing of the social weave and you know young men not getting married and and you know the Kind of a Japanification a splitting of the sexes and all this kind of stuff. So they're angry and You know, the problem is that there's not really a Coherent banner to stand under and Christianity included is not really a coherent banner to stand under because many Christians are in support of all the stuff that's going on right but There's no counter movement to all of this That is that is more coherent than just saying that you're Christian, I guess Right, there's no secular conservatism to really point to that's kind of the big failure of Western intellectuals is that is that they haven't produced a coherent secular conservative perspective and What's your perspective on mr. Medica? I think yeah, he's a very scornful individual he's he likes to to Make fun of people and and be aloof and all that sort of thing kind of a comedian type Like a comedian journalist hybrid I Watch his videos his internet aristocrat videos back in the day I Mean he's very good at what he does He's yeah, he's funny. He's a crash course in reality Yeah, well, I don't know about that. I don't think that he's I think he's very good at spinning a narrative. I'm not sure that that is narrative is is all that accurate Yeah, he was he was very good at Sort of giving out the pro gamer gate perspective back in the day and he did all these kind of yeah He's like a journalist basically what I think of him is he's he's basically a new age journalist and Has all the problems that you see with journalists like they they like to to pull a story together and generally at the At the cost of the truth because the truth is usually not neat Truth is usually not neat and clean and coming together in in one one simple narrative And what's your perspective on Ethan Ralph? Very Alex Jones like you know with his with his divorce and his his health problems and his Yeah, very Alex Jones like like and like a like a little mini Alex Jones and Also unhealthy Very unhealthy. It seems to me and How much have you found your internet your your virtual personality has affected your real-life person? Well, the show I was on was very small so pretty much nobody saw it and That was basically the beginning and end of it, right? I Don't think I had it had a big psychological effect on me I think that like in terms of being like internet blood sports and arguing and all that stuff I mean, it was just a different version of that but it's something I've been doing for my whole life, frankly is is arguing online about politics and ideology and Yeah, this was just a new incarnation of that. It wasn't like It didn't end up having a very profound effect And I'm thinking what I did it I would say that that listening to you without talking to you probably had had a bigger effect on unlike my my ideological thinking right like I still credit you with with bringing a lot of clarity to the to the problems with distant right and You know the the way that they would they would avoid pointing to their own, you know The whole movement basically pretended to be intellectually honest and and forthrightly, you know Well, yeah, this is the story all the time every time right they they paint themselves as being the the unflinching guardians of the truth And then when they come upon a truth that is inconvenient for them they suddenly turn into everybody else and That's something that you you uncovered very adeptly I think it's sort of your your your story probably in all these groups is You're doing this over and over and over again, and you're very good at it And yeah, that you know, I think that I Admire the clarity with which you You you Approach that situation. So yeah, I think you had a pretty big effect on me about my participation in the show, you know, not so much What are your views on Curtis Yavin? I Think he's careless. I think he's He's loose with the facts and that's a that's a big flaw Is that he's a little bit loose with the facts and the facts are important and he claims to be again He claims to be you know, the forthright sort of of truth, but Yeah, like if you saw his conversation with Michael Anton, I think Michael Anton had a much more accurate view of history for example Yeah, Curtis Yavin doesn't seem to have a very accurate understanding of his own Limits and his own knowledge. He seems to have a vastly exaggerated sense of his own learning.  So that's it's annoying Well, Curtis Yavin is such an autodidact and so this is common with autodidacts that the self-taught that they have no No understanding of the limits of their own knowledge. And so I just find it unbearable This thing the Curtis Yavin that he's pronouncing on all sorts of things that he doesn't know very much about Well, if you try to get away with that in the Academy, you'd be smacked down fairly quickly Yeah, of course in the Academy, you'll be slapped down for we're telling the truth in a lot of cases too So there's there's your upside and there's your downside there. Um, I mean you probably know how I think about this I mean, I view the the Academy as a whole to be far more insidious than Curtis Yavin because you'll see a Lot of rigor and a lot of honesty in a lot of areas, but then in certain crucial areas That will be absent or reversed. So it's like the Nazis the Nazis were You know brilliant scientists they they knew a whole lot they were they were great engineers There was a lot of rigor there, but there was also a certain a certain bent a certain perspective a certain unwillingness to to accept new facts when they were inconvenient to the ideology or the or the the current campaign of the of the Of the ruling class or the or the ruling ideology and so you can have like people who are brilliant and And knowledgeable and unaligned Right, the alignment could be the most important thing, you know it can be you can have a warship with beautifully engineered steam turbines and cannons and And full fuel bays and on all this stuff and and oh how wonderful it is but it can be a warship that's steaming towards you to shoot you or can be a warship that's steaming towards the enemy to defend you and You know, they look basically the same and you know, there was the same rigor Maybe even more rigor in the in the way the Japanese built their weapons but they were directed in a very negative way and That's what you have to look at is what direction they're they're steaming in and what they're shooting at and the Academy is shooting in the wrong direction and Curtis Jarvin is shooting in the right direction and that deserves quite a lot of emphasis and When do you make up Tucker Carlson and how much do you consume? I like him. I Subscribed to Fox and friends just to get his his clever crossing today show and and watch his Curtis Jarvin interviews and some other interviews I like in Michael Anton interview Recently, I liked his Amy Wax interview, but it's interspersed with these unbearable I don't know just idiots So yeah, Tucker Carlson has has these moments of insight interspersed with with just utter lunacy. He has his his UFO craze, for example, all kinds of like just kind of low brow in my opinion Low IQ stuff, but then he also has has a lot of sophisticated stuff and he's pointed in the right direction. So I like him I think you know, many of his conversations are are Sand the test of time they're they're interesting Yeah, I like Michael Anton too by the way like a similar story Tell me more about Anton because I was a huge fan of Anton and then I just Found him increasingly reckless with reckless disregard for the truth, particularly visa. Yeah. Yeah, like any election.  No, no, I think but All these members of groups are our liars. Okay, like anyone who who finds themselves a member of a group and You know Intellectually and stays in that group and doesn't find himself at odds with them, right? The only way to do that is to be a liar, right? Or or to be, you know, hive-minded in such a way that that you believe you're not lying when you are So I just have different expectations than you I suppose. Yeah, I mean Circle back to the personal. It seems like you you have this thing where you'll You'll admire a group and then you'll you'll see it's it's hypocrisy It's lies. It's deception and then you'll you'll be turned off by it and that that's good in some ways, but you know Just, you know Maybe part of it is is is Part of it is motivated by some some belief Or some confusion that maybe there's some group that doesn't do this Maybe there's some group that rises beyond these tendencies and there isn't they're all like this everyone You'll never find a group that doesn't lie that doesn't have its group think it's deception It's selfishness all all that stuff So it's true of the American right and the American new right and the American alt-right and all that stuff. It's all like that So Anton is a member of the American new right the National Conservative Movement and as such he will lie to defend it or he will he will he will engage in group Think he will believe absurdities in order to be a member of this group and to defend his perspective So Tucker Carlson did a special on the end of Masculinity where he featured a blokes talking about how important was to get sunshine on your testicles And you've probably gotten more sunshine on your testicles than anyone I've ever spoken to can you can you can you talk about the benefits that you receive from this? Yeah, I mean it's yeah It's just typical quack stuff.  That's double important Whatever it's fairly harmless, I suppose hopefully So the the New York Times did a big three-parter on Tucker Carlson I read it didn't didn't find much in it that I didn't already know Didn't Particularly move me one way or another but Tucker is going to speak in Iowa So do you think Tucker is a realistic candidate for president in? 2024 Trump is going to destroy everybody unless he has a health problem if Trump has like a health crisis Then maybe someone else can win but otherwise and brought that somebody's going to be DeSantis But if it's not but if Trump can run as healthy Trump He's gonna annihilate everybody and win the nomination and then Yeah, we'll see what happens after that. I think DeSantis is the next in line. I'm pretty solidly How viable a candidate for president you think Tucker Carlson is just on his own his own merits. I don't know With that with that excite you a Tucker candidacy not really no I prefer him in his role as he is You know, I think we want these DeSantis types. We want these kind of operators, right? You know, we want people who like at least Trump had some business experience, right, you know getting things done We saw how that worked out. Yeah, but yeah, like ideally like politicians who who who are who are aligned like DeSantis is DeSantis is on board with with the whole anti woke thing and he's he's experienced He's he's he's held a higher office and he's governed So we want people like that and we want to you know drive things home Dismantle the administrative state yada yada yada, you know, that kind of dismantle that I say dismantle I mean just replace them with our guys And and how effective do you think DeSantis is for our side? I think pretty effective. I mean, he seems like a decent governor You know, he he gets the things he wants done done so I think pretty effective and I think the conservative movement is is moving in a in a nice direction, right? the education polarization has resulted in a movement that you know They genuinely genuinely believe that the election was stolen that they won the election Biden was at plus 7% in the independent polling and he won the election and they think that he he lost it So that means that for the foreseeable future, they're gonna believe they won every election Which is nice It's a morale boost So what's your perspective on Russia versus Ukraine? What are the things that you're thinking about the vis-a-vis that conflict and its potential to To create a bigger conflagration in the world My tendency is to be gloomy, but you know When this started this this was what I sort of outlined as my ideal outcome is that Russia invades But it's not successful and it pays a big price right Like if Russia invades and it ends quickly with a Russian victory That's pretty bad because it's it's an invitation For Russia to invade the next country and the next and the next it just is right weakness is provocative weakness invites invasion The way it's happened now is that Russia is sort of bogged down there for the indefinite future And maybe that'll be that we stuck there and it'll be isolated to that region However, that region is pretty important The Russia-Ukraine area A lot of the world's food a lot of the world's oil comes from that those two countries. So It's pretty disruptive, but at least Russia is being bogged down and it's not going in In totally unpredictable ways. They've they've they've reduced their the scale their ambitions to the donbas And uh, they might not even get that so Yeah, or the novorossiya rather They've reduced the scale of their ambitions to novorossiya and they might not even get that So what are the chances of nuclear war from this? This doesn't meaningfully impact the the nuclear situation at all. It's just uh, it's just psychology. It's all It's all about the psychological impact. This has on the on the key players, which are joseph r biden and vladimir putin Uh, so what psychological impact is it having? well Putin seems a little agitated. He seems wrong-puted by this biden is now calling for putin to be uh ousted so the Seems to have increased the risk of nuclear war significantly because Both sides are are now considerably more hostile and also More insecure than they were previously so Well, yeah, given how Given how inept russia's military Appears if russia does get into a fight with nato nato will absolutely destroy them Just wipe the floor with them which would then leave russia with a choice between retreating to its own borders With its tail between its legs or going nuclear. So that would be a dangerous dilemma. I would think yeah, um There's not going to be a fallout war between nato and russia conventional war because russia will Under these russia was already inclined to go nuclear tactical nuclear Um before this now this will be completely cemented But they have no chance unless they they use tactical nuclear weapons. So they will if there's a war between russia and nato Um, and maybe that'll who knows how that'll go. We have no precedent for this We don't know. We don't know what the reaction is going to be uh One underrated possibility. I think is that uh the escalate to deescalate framework will work russia will use some nukes People will realize that they're serious and uh Feed them like north korea Like we haven't invaded north korea We're hostile to them. We're implacably hostile. They're implacably hostile to us But we kind of just have our own separate spheres and we don't interact Any more than we need to Wait, but you said russia may use some nukes north korea has not exploded nukes on on other people So this would be very different. I mean if if russia starts dropping nuclear bombs on kiev, what do you think would happen? on war saw Oh, you would see uh Yeah, I mean, I think it would harden into a north korea type situation where we're just attempting to isolate them I don't think we would nuke russia in retaliation for russia nuking um Ukraine or even poland I think we want to posture that but I don't I don't think we would do that because You know, there's a material difference between some eastern european country is getting nuked and every american city getting nuked so The way we want to posture is that you know, not one step Beyond this line shall you go vladrim putin without us nuking you with everything we have but uh, we don't want to have every american city nuke that would be a big victory for china if If every single american city was reduced to ruins, so I don't think we're gonna let that happen We would we would definitely though what we would definitely do In that situation is we'd be willing to nuke russia to stop them from from taking anything over Like we'd be willing to go scorched earth on russia outside of russia's borders Outside of russia's borders. We'd be willing to go scorched earth on them um so I think it would uh realistically lead to like a Kind of a a charred uh, you know buffer zone between the nuclear powers and They'd be utterly hostile to each other forever like north korea and the rest of the world and uh, that'd be it Just just a very very grim standoff akin to if the nazis got nukes and we got nukes at the same time And we just stared at each other You know hatefully but uh, I don't think that borderland conflicts are going to escalate into nukes Toss at each other's main cities because um like How much does this does this all of eastern europe matter to us it matters to us about 1000th as much as even one major city being nuked so And how mentally intact do you think jay biden is? I think it's kind of crazy, but trump was kind of crazy We have a long tradition of kind of crazy president presidents. Um Uh, he's an establishment type unlike trump. So less of a wild card Uh, I think he'll listen to his advisors and this is really more of a more of a group thing Then about joseph r. Biden's individual thoughts on this Like I think you think he has some effect on on the margins, but he's not going to order a nuclear strike randomly or something Trump would not be obeyed if he did that and biden wouldn't do it in the first place and Is jay biden just a puppet? No, he's uh, he's president. He's genuinely president, but he's an establishment president.  So He's a weak president, but he's not not a fake president. He's the most powerful person in the country, but uh You know, he's I don't think he's He's has any secret agenda. I think his agenda is out there, but he uh, he has He only has congress on on the tiniest of margins and he's going to lose it soon. So His ability to act is is limited Who would you say is the most powerful man in the world right now? um Probably uh, probably joe biden. Yeah, I mean I think that's true. Joe biden is probably the most powerful person in the world but but I think uh You could see you could make an argument for cgc z gene ping because his economy is likely to converge with with america's economy size And uh, he's going to be in charge for life. So I mean realistically if we're not just looking at power today Uh, z gene ping is probably the most the most expected to be the most powerful person in the world You know based on the expected value of his whole life in charge I've got a a friend who argues that uh, run claim Or barack obama are more powerful than joe biden because biden's essentially just a puppet of these people And that's absurd What do you think we should be doing vis-a-vis iran? Should we be trying to renegotiate and return to that deal that obama got with iran? I think the iran deal was much maligned, but was basically fine um Yeah, but I do have to go. Okay. It was a good talk to you man. Take care man. Yeah, okay. Take care. Thanks for letting me on again I like the old days. Bye okay, I want to go back to the decoding the gurus podcast play it and Discuss it the hosts of christopher cavernor anthropologists based in japan matthew brown Psychologist at the university of central queens land Their guests are the hosts of the academic podcast very bad wizards, but I can't disagree a bit about it being effective You know what I mean? You're putting inside the thousands of years of aliens and so on the actual methods and so on being effective because That's true, but it's true in a very kind of superficial way like those methods those interpersonal Things are always effective and little In the hands of the right person, I guess Yeah, that's right Like I've told the story to chris, but really briefly like I was in japan actually when I went to visit a friend of a friend and and she was into color therapy And there was these bottles of different colored oils and and you choose a couple of colors Like I am so open and I at various times like so interested in these kind of therapies Like I just enjoy them. I think I just probably just enjoyed the personal attention Like I remember one russia shana. I met a medical Intuitionist and she recommended to me She like recommended this thing to me like, you know, this special color fragrance that would like cleanse my aura and and even though It was like absolutely broke, you know, over $50,000 in credit card debt. I bought this like This this $50, you know A bottle of things that I should tap on my forehead and on my neck I didn't didn't notice any difference, but she did also send me to dragon herbs, which was a great recommendation I got some benefit from going to there that appealed to you and they represent your future and your president You'd like it. Yeah, you'd love this. Yeah And the practitioner sits there across from you and like stares into your eyes and holds your hands and touches your arm and shoulder And they they talk about you for like 30 minutes or so and so I went along to that being the sceptic guy And I loved it that you could feel the power of the interpersonal Experience and you can see how in all of these colds all of these quack kind of things They always generate a genuine inadvertent commerce response because we're monkeys and And that sort of shit works on us So will allow me to retort. I I don't think I disagree with you I think though what I what you're saying what I'm saying is simply That what the active ingredient is in color therapy is clearly not the colors It's the connection and I think that yeah, so this medical intuition is so I've used almost the entire bottle I mean I've hardly used it last 10 years, but I feel like I need to get my money's worth And so this is this is the equilibrium. It is a balance of herbs and oils It contains plant and crystal energies many people think plant energies are awesome and other people think Oh crystal energies the way to go But guys you've got to you've got to try the plant and and crystal Combination if you really want to reap reap the benefits And don't just pick up or a somo on the basis what looks good to you. You need to find a practitioner Right if you want to feel empowered I mean there are some wonderful or a somo practitioners here to get like the best balance of of the herbal and and and Plant and crystal energies like you really need them together. So I got equilibrium And this is how you create an abundantly joyful life That's what the medical intuition has told me now She'd just been in a bad car accident. So she said she wasn't really all there But we traded work like she she gave me some of her medical intuition Oh, this is good. We're all interconnected and interrelated This is a global community offering or a somo consultations in over 40 countries including england japan and the united states but Where's I want to find out trust your intuition equilibrium bottles so Okay, let's go to the product. Oh equilibrium. That's the one I want. Yeah, that's what See, this is what I got it it harnesses the vibrational powers of mother nature Right, so or a soma equilibrium bottles are a system of color plant and crystal energies That bring you closer to self understanding. So kyle was impressed To to some degree with my levels of self understanding and my understanding of the alt right and in retrospect, I think after I have to attribute much of those benefits to my equilibrium from or a soma so When you trust your intuition while selecting the equilibrium bottles and applying them regularly I haven't been applying this regularly enough probably need a refill They have the capacity to support you to a deeper consciousness and promote your total well-being So desire to be brilliant to be joyous to be creative to be happy to be you A system of color plant and crystal energies that help you become the very best version of yourself using the highest quality organic Biodynamic and wild crafted ingredients right I got all this at a bottle because it harnesses the vibrational powers of mother nature Right or a some equilibrium bottles a system of color plant and crystal energies that bring you closer to self understanding So it's activated when you apply it to the body And its vibrational energy can be accessed through the ingredients in each equilibrium bottle The alchemy is in your hands I got alchemy in my hands and the unique energy in each equilibrium bottle is unlocked when it touches your skin So let me Let me just give this a scientific test here Oh, wow Oh, this stuff really works guys This stuff really really works. This is fair dinkum It oh, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I was told to put it I think on my forehead and on the back of my neck I remember with the women like best way to seduce them was to God forbid to kiss the back of their neck Because we have we have more bones connecting with bones more joints in the neck that anywhere else in the body So the neck is super sensitive So, oh, yeah. Yeah. Oh boy.  You notice my aura changing color right now so This is created to correspond with the seven chakra centers In your body that energy flows through and equilibrium brings ease balance and calm to your energetic system I mean who would not want these these benefits? All right at the same time and that's not all That's not all like Diana. It would have been enough for me To get like my money's worth $50 bottle if all this did was bring ease balance and calm to my energetic system Diana It also strengthens and protects the aura to empower you and elevate your consciousness So to stand in front of the various color combinations contained within the equilibrium bottles And select those which you feel drawn to most. That's the first step guys Right the colors draw you in because the colors You are drawn to the colors you need and that you can then activate the vibrational energy of the ingredients in each Equilibrium by shaking the bottle and applying it to the body So the alchemy is in your hands unique energy in each equilibrium bottle is unlocked when it touches your skin Thank god for or a soma just changed my life or a server made me the man I am today the method that the process that they're using In this movie is more on the face of it what it says it is forcing an interpersonal connection Right, so it is simply saying now you tell me some vulnerable. Shit. No, I'm gonna ask you again I'm gonna ask you again. There's no pretense that there is like I'm because I think psychics do the same thing Right they forge this connection which is pseudo. It's all done false falsely. Yeah Whoa, whoa, whoa, guys just about I formed a genuine connection with my psyche. So about she like built me for about 900 dollars And I did get one unsolicited email from Dennis Prager out of it. So it was totally worth it I mean if one chooses to ignore the thousands of years of evidence, but this one it's it's more laid bare I don't think this is Good therapeutic practice by any means, but I do think that it I guess I would call it like a ice breaking exercise on steroids Right, you know forcing And and let me add to that that it's all well and good to say there, you know, I'm sure there is it's true And guys for the next for the next five days only if you put in the promo code 40 You'll get 15% off your Horus There are better ways to Make this kind of connection that don't involve a lot of this spooky shit But that is each and every one of these bottles has the power of the lord jesus in it in seriously holy colored water Before long look, we'll be doing chaos magic rituals on stream This product reminds me of religion Being an antisocial schizoid is the fundamental characteristic of the alt right promo code blinding white teeth Yeah, it's fake, but it works 40 you do much better with the guest hose agreed It's what are you drinking cologne again? It's not cologne. It's orisoma, bro. It's got natural plant and crystal energies Luke is turning into a giga chad right before our eyes It doesn't have my death knell in it. It's bs My sister would love this stuff So is women too the buying the spirituality and quack got quack therapy disavow Now you really need that snake energy the the kundalini. Have you guys activated your kundalini lately? Michael Anton Karashevan equally unimpressive in their debate I can imagine Cognitive behavioral therapy and antidepressants would help the vast majority of people But most people are too self-obsessed and not reflective to follow the advice of doctors Kyle versus the world with some good streaming content. I agree Defend the constitution. It defends you Happening to freddie quell right like so this is what he has this is what's on offer For a lot of these people it's that or nothing And so they get that and that is really important It's not like the other option that the movie seems to lay out is tell me what this thing is that look right This is so important when people Denigrate say the community created on line or a community created on a youtube live stream You have to evaluate everything compared to what okay, so Like getting married and having kids is obviously going to usually be much more fulfilling and better for you Then spending your life on live streams But that's not usually the thing that people are weighing up people are weighing up being on a live stream versus gaming And so being part of a youtube live stream community may be better for you in some instances for some streams than gaming Or people may be going out to play golf So sometimes it's probably better to go out play golf than participate in a live stream other times participating in a live stream And there's real life Community being created here like people have employed each other from this channel People have gone to bed with each other from this channel people have built real world friendships people have built businesses People are building a hedge fund From from with other people that they've met on this show So we're small, but we're powerful looks obviously like a vagina um like exactly That's the other option that they have is that And the back to the discussion of whether or not Philip Seymour Hoffman was trying to sick his dog whether he was trying to do this or not I actually read these interactions as Reflecting something different. I don't think that he really wanted Joaquin Phoenix freddy to go kick ass I think that what is seeming like in decision is that throughout this whole movie I think he's trying to figure out why he likes freddy And I think one of the things is that this guy has His impulsiveness is something That dod doesn't have and that he kind of likes. I think his Lust for life is too positive But the whole thing that he's calling humans animalistic, right? He hates the fart, but he laughs at it and he ends up concluding that laughter is really important about right But I think he is stuck In believing That we should rise above our animal nature But there is something that is so appealing about freddy's animalistic nature that he's attracted to Yeah, yeah, that's totally true at several points in the movie. They they really emphasize the animal nature Of and I think he can't even tell whether or not he wants Freddy sexually. I think he's unclear. Yeah, but but I think you're right It's interesting like the self concept of dod is the and this is aligned specifically with Scientology is that idea of ascending to this sort of spiritual Realm that is and could be divorced from your animal nature But like I was saying I just picked up lots of hints that he wasn't happy Absolutely. He was that he's miserable, but I think freddy is telling him that he's miserable about something Yeah, he's given up this part of life Yeah, and kind of the only times you see in laugh So all sorts of people are back on twitter all right, so Elon Musk appearing poised to take over twitter has had many Beneficial effects already. So I noticed there's already freer speech. You can I believe you can You can challenge the validity of the 2020 election, which I do not agree with But I agree with the freedom to be able to do that and michael indel the My pillow guy built a billion dollar business. So on the one hand michael indel has Often shown himself to be a buffoon on the other hand. He's built a billion dollar business He's not just a buffoon right people are not just the worst aspect of themselves Yeah, that line that he says at the end where freddy is leaving him and he says if you figure out a way to live without Serving a master or any master then let the rest of us know for you'd be the first, you know something like That's a good point if you found a way to live without serving a master So all men are slaves. All right Virtuous men are slaves to virtue And bad men are slaves to their appetites But most people need a master I think that's that's profound like that like I think he sees in freddy something that Even though he's a completely broken aimless Soul like he sees in him you can actually live in this way where you're not beholden to some source of meaning and So I have a rule when it comes to dating. I will not date any woman who is worse than me at Reading social cues. So pretty much everyone every girlfriend. I've ever had has been better than me except one Okay, so that was that was that was a big warning sign She would carry her Her laptop into into shore On shabbat because she didn't want it stolen from her car She worked at a public radio station and so she would say to my friends. Oh, we're having a fundraising drive You know, please go ahead and contribute I was like many many embarrassing things and She was at this table where where the rabbi I wasn't there the rabbi was hosting a shabbat lunch And he said, you know, a lot of great people in this community, but there's one person you have to watch out for luke Ford and and My ex-girlfriend stood up for me. She said, well, he's okay when he's on his lithium But he's too vain to take his lithium every day. So then he goes a little nuts That's christine christine palma. She died About 14 months ago unexpectedly Just like some kind of brain brain aneurysm that we were together from 2007 to 2008 That is appealing to him because he doesn't he also feels lost too Yeah, I was just gonna say just to extend on that. So dawg is kind of the leader of the cult, right? He's the master, but He knows Like it's full of schemes and organizations and boats and then they move to to london And they're going to set up things there and you can just sort of you get a sense of all of the sort of fruity and ego type Strategizing that sort of dominates every little thing that they do And his wife is the full-on believer and a powerful character And in a way, he's like the tail's wagon that is a little bit of a prisoner of this construct that is created There was an element in the character of freddy I find interesting was that while he was presented, you know, it's kind of animalistic force, right? Like when you saw from his perspective took me quite a while to work out. That's what's happening when You saw suddenly all the women being naked in one scene. I actually fought for a while So is this showing like dawg commanded all women to become naked, but it's confusing. I watched that scene three times Not for the boobs, but is there like an accepted interpretation my interpretation is it's clearly from his perspective and he's Yeah, right. Okay. Anyway with uh christine pama and some other women that I've dated Obviously the sane women were going to date me But uh, I noticed with her that she's been in all these feuds Which which even at my my low level of mental health and recovery. I recognize this is not a good sign That she'd been in these very intense feuds. And so it's uh, it's a giveaway that you're With someone who's dangerous, right?  They're gonna smear you the same way to the next target That's it's a big warning sign, right?  They tell you how much they have in common with you How perfect you are for them. So like a chameleon they mirror your hopes and dreams And insecurities to form an immediate bond of trust and excitement They constantly initiate communication seem to be fascinated with you on every level Right, if you have a facebook page, they might plaster it with songs compliments poems and inside jokes That's a terrific sign that you're dealing with a psychopath Compares you to everyone else in their life They compare you to ex-lovers friends family members and your eventual replacement So when they're idealizing you they make you feel special by telling you how much better you are than these other people And then when they're devaluing you they use these comparisons to make you feel jealous and inferior Another sign that you're dealing with a psychopath the qualities they once claim to admire in you suddenly become glaring faults So at first they appeal to your deepest vanities and vulnerabilities They observe and mimic exactly what they think you want to hear But after you're hooked they start using these things against you and you spent more and more time trying to prove yourself worthy For the very person who said you were great Then cracks in their mask There are fleeting moments when the charming cute innocent persona is replaced by something else entirely You see a side of them never came out during the idealization phase There's a side that is cold inconsiderate and manipulative start to notice their personality just does not add up that the person You felt in love with doesn't actually seem to exist A sign you're dealing with a psychopath they are easily bored Right, they're constantly surrounded by other people Stimulated and praised at all times. They can't tolerate being alone for an extended period of time They become quickly uninterested by anything that doesn't directly impact them in a positive or thrilling way First you might think they're exciting and worldly and you feel inferior for preferring familiarity and consistency Yeah, I think the camera work is what gives us that I think that the director is trying to tell us that But there is something I want to talk about in that scene when chris is done So I I think that's in various other ones like are presenting the parallel and the imagery of like he's an animal He's a dog. That's very clear But there's also this like weird part and I liked it because it reminded me of this short story I heard when I was at school in in northern ireland The program is echo in the sense. I'm the host christine palm up tonight. We have people here at the radio station check it out Oh That's not the that's not the right link. So this is this is my ex just as running away. She wasn't responding to my emails And I googled her and found out that she'd she'd died Listening to Kate She was public affairs director at the Loyola, mary mount radio session for about 15 years 88.9 of them and the program is echo in the sense. I'm the host christine palm up tonight We have people here at the radio station. Check it out Right the the people who brewed their home alcohol and in that story It was a school teacher. I think I looked it up and it was like a short story from the 70s But that skill he has right where he's yes, he's making like these kind of potions out of badly things like paint finners and so on but the camera work presents it as in a sense he has some sort of science or mechanical skill like an artisan To make these drinks and I can't remember how dawd refers to them But it had this nature that he has some part to him which is Like proficient in a skill albeit it's brewing alcohol I totally agree and remember this is the thing that first attracts dawd to him on the one hand He's obviously a bootlegger. We can read it straight that way You know he was his father's alcoholic and he learned this skill But it's almost like he had this elixir of life that dawd wants in on and when he asks him how he does it He won't tell him So it's almost like a a wizard or a shaman. He's able to craft this elixir and That's what draws him in like he sees along with everything else He sees that freddy has something that he wants that he's denied himself for so long invites versa Yeah, well, and I think that this is Amy Adams Peggy dawd is One of the things that she first asked him is to stop boozing You know, you can read this as stop your magic the magic that you have on my husband And which gets me to that scene that scene If you look at Amy Adams in that scene, I think it's the most So I've tended to have relationships with two types of women one the Christine Palmer type who is incredibly loving All right, she's just a very loving nurturing woman but chaotic, right just uh at a hard time being on time and Doing the things that adults do and then I have relationships with women who are organized and successful But they then become filled with contempt for me There's a brilliant piece of acting in the whole film is You're distracted by these naked women. I think you're seeing it from the perspective of freddy. You see Amy Adams Catch the camera so we can see it's freddy And she does this thing where she knows she was so cute All right, and then after we broke up she got on various medications and just bloated up But until about 2008 she was just such a cutie and then then the medications caused her to gain about 20 pounds Otis is the way that freddy is looking But then she looks up at dawd And then looks right back at freddy as if to notice that there's something going on in that dynamic And then that's where right after she goes and jerks them off and she says you could do whatever you want But not this think that there's an illusion there to that chemistry. Nobody that other people I know Yeah, yeah, so that that's in matt and I were actually talking about it And I think there is in lots of things there's ambiguity, right because it's it's not So when I was taking alexander technique lessons I I bought three lessons for friends and Two of my friends like made an appointment showed up Christine typically for her she didn't get the appointment date right? So she she burned it because you know, I bought an appointment for her. She didn't show up. So it was a It was a waste of a hundred dollars That's it that it's referencing like homosexual urges. It could be just Not it could be three different things at the same time, right? Yeah, but did you guys read it that there was Like a homoerotic going both ways or one way or how did you read that relationship? I read it less like that even though like It's almost begging you to interpret that way I I read it more as a father son kind of relationship and well, that's not inconsistent No, I guess well, I don't know what kind of like family you grew up in He was only fucking his aunt But I guess my point is like I think that's the thing that it seems like Joaquin phoenix Or or freddy is hungering for but at the same time can't Commit to so I didn't come down on Clearly this is two men that are trying to get with each other But can't bring themselves to admit that but I so I met her at the la press club in 2007 and She told me she was working on a book about robots And she was volunteering at the la press club and she was also sleeping there And and so it was so incredibly exciting those first few weeks because I was able to bring her into my life Not many women who I could bring into my life my world my apartment and it would be a step up for them But my apartment was a better place for her than sleeping in her car I was sleeping in the la press club and I got intoxicated by like taking care of her and taking her out to eat And you know putting her up at my place and she was incredibly flexible She'd you know go along with pretty much anything I wanted to do Because I guess she was in in a bad place being semi-homeless sleeping in the car sleeping at the la press club And that was so intoxicating for the first few weeks and then it quickly started to feel like a millstone around my neck so I guess the I learned in In one of my 12 step programs that the desire to rescue Or the desire to be rescued Comes from a similar dysfunctional place. So for the first two months it was incredibly exciting to rescue her And then for the next 10 months It just felt like a millstone around my neck and what sustained the relationship for the last six months is that we took Out playing chess that she was a very aggressive assertive chess player And I have to go to the library and read all these books on chess so that I could I could beat her So when we when we tired of having sex we really got into the chess And Our last week together I took off we went on a car trip We went drove the the one freeway up to san francisco went up to coups bay in oregon Then I took her back to the nappa valley with The pacific union college spent a shabbat at pacific union college Just rocked up to the home of my former sabbath school teacher Like later friday night said hey, can we can we crash then we went to yosemite for a couple of days Then then we drove home And the next day I went to a talk at ucla and met someone else and broke up with christine Can see that reading it no i'm with you tamar and I don't think it's very important Whether or not there's some sort of physical thing going on there because what's clear is that His wife doesn't approve of him and other people in the movement Don't approve of the presence of this guy and it's lancaster dod who wants him there and appreciates him and his wife in particular is And a question from josh rand or do I support men going their own way? So in some instances Yeah generally speaking no Right generally speaking You're better off with a woman in your life, but you're not better off with a toxic woman in your life so in 80 percent of cases for men no but Probably in a small small percentage of cases men are better off, but no overall going your own way without women I think is a bad idea Kind of jealous nothing to do with physicality at all. I mean this is the contradiction, right? He's meant to be the cold leader and freddy's meant to be the one that sort of fallen into it and is the loyal dog But like he's too sociopathic or something to actually really care that much He's a little touched and about the men's rights movement seems to do some good things So I think from what I've seen of it. I'm generally favorably dispersed towards mra. The men's rights activists But you can take anything too far as they say in the south. He's like yeah, they're right not all there. Yeah so it's actually The the master that has this strong Thing for freddy and freddy's more casual about it. And so freddy leaves right on the motorcycle He just just burns off and it's like it's hard to understand for the law And then it's length cast a dot at the very end who sort of begs Fregity to come back and really at the very final scene.  I'm embarrassed by my behavior Wow, I I gave her the nickname fats when she started gaining weight and yeah, not very nice of me so This this combination started bringing out a really dark side of me He's sort of cheering for him to leave. Yeah, not but he also wants him He said he's driving fast like good for him. Yeah. Good boy. Yeah. Um, and you'll see I agree Matt that it's not even important really for the movie. What's important is that there is some sort of dynamic there that's intriguing If you see right before the scene where philip seymour hoffman is dancing and singing He is the scene right before that is he's telling the audience that he's in love And you'll see Joaquin phoenix looks embarrassed Like he has this sort of look as if he thinks he might be I remember I was driving in traffic and I started yelling at another driver when christine was in the car I said yelling at the other driver and said I think I yelled out like hey bats get out of the way And like christine said wait, I thought that was my special name And so she was annoyed and upset that I was taking her special name And applying it to others So That's a big no no. I've learned with women You need to need to have that that special name special connection with them that you don't share with anyone else So a lot of the women I've dated say look you you share so much of yourself online Like what's going to be left that's going to be special and unique just to us Talking about him and maybe this is me imputing something on it But I think there's a reason for him giving that look On the face of it. He's talking about his wife But I think this is ties into the whole she's jealous She might not know what and in this era, maybe Any homosexual feelings were so repressed that not even they themselves know what's going on between the two men They might not even realize what's going on But and he and he didn't seem in love with Amy No, no so I met christine at the la press club and Then got got her phone number and like we spoke for like two hours the first night I think I met her on a wednesday night talked to her for about two hours thursday night and then friday night I wanted to meet up with her and and or I wanted to take her out and all the options Didn't work for her except to meet at friday night live at temple sinai So the first time we went out was for this friday night service at sinai temple in westwood She wanted to go there and so I never asked her to convert to judieism I was thinking this was just going to be kind of a temporary fling But she took it on herself to convert to judieism I was Like would take her to my orthodox synagogue and we were a very liberal orthodox synagogue And so she said she was interested in orthodox judieism But when she went to convert she she did it on her own so she went to the University of judieism, which is conservative. So their conversions are not accepted by the orthodox And she didn't consult with me. She just went off and did that and then I wanted to be supportive So I she asked me to come along to the classes and to a special shabbat weekend But she came up fairly near to the end of Of her conversion to conservative judieism and then she said, ah, it doesn't really count with the orthodox So yeah for 24 years. She did a weekly radio program at kxlu And so she abandoned her conservative judieism and then started with the orthodox conversion And she loved young israel century city love that synagogue And then eventually after we broke up she He kept going with her orthodox conversion for a while, but then eventually gave it up She was discouraged when when her sponsoring rabbi said Look, I'm gonna get a sponsor you if you go go get therapy I think that the rabbi saw that she was you know driving around with all this stuff in her car Picked up some of the dysfunction And so christine took Took great exception to that So when he's saying that that is a fair In a way when he says that he says i'm in love i'm in love We've all been in love, but he says it in again this kind of hollow Yeah, it was very much like a pat. He's a pastor And alexander says men going there away seems like a cope for rejected men. Yes I certainly don't think this is this is the way to go for most men All right, we're built to be paired up with a woman Now you don't ever get paired up with a woman who's Horrible for you or bad for you Right Bad people make you feel bad good people make you feel good at that point The only thing I would say related to Dave's point was that the Something that supports up reading Dave is that the indulgence study later shows freddy when everybody else Is like this guy's no good. He's dangerous I think he's a cia informant and you get to see the frustration of them trying to Make him better, but it is very much like Dodd says, okay, I take all of those things But they still see something in freddy, right? So I think that kind of fits without reading that he has some devotion to him that the others don't whether it's love or not So that's all then they wrestle on the front lawn Yeah Yeah, which is kind of one of the only times you see dodd being like happy Exactly. Yeah. That's right. Yeah Who do you think this is more about between the two of them because in some ways I think you're tempted to see this about to focus on dodd, but it's on a lot of ways a movie about freddy quell and more broadly speaking the kind of person that might be drawn to This kind of community Uh glib medley notes luke has an easy time separating people into good and bad. Yes. I have a personality tendency common among narcissists of Very easily idealizing and devaluing people. So pretty much all narcissists tend to do this Because it's also an interesting mission. He can't hold the job He can't stick to anything, but he does stick with them for Much longer than you see him capable of sticking to anything else So what is it about him and his experience that draws him to this? Yeah, these well actually I gotta dispute your premise there because I don't think he is that drawn to them He fell into them. He boarded the boat on a whim. He sort of gets kicked out in his own So we're talking about the poor thomas anderson 2012 movie the master, which is finley veil portrayal of the Scientology story So one of the best books I've read on toxic people is jordan mckenzie psychopath free So here are some of the traits of the psychopath. They're into triangulation They surround themselves with former lovers potential mates anyone else who provides them with added attention This includes people that the psychopath may have previously denounced and declared you superior to so this makes you feel confused Creates the perception the psychopath is in high demand at all times Pervert abuse from an early age most of us were taught to identify physical mistreatment and blatant verbal insults But with psychopaths the abuse is not so obvious. You won't even understand that you're in an abusive relationship until long after it's over Through personalized idealization and subtle devaluation the psychopath can effectively erode the identity of any chosen target So I noticed with many of the women I dated they wanted more effort from me They wanted me to actively get involved in solving their problems So when I dated a woman and found out she was in these views with her roommates with her neighbors that are Her you know neighbor had put a nail in her tire And these women wanted me to go, you know take charge of this situation and my response usually was I wanted to run away from such women so Through personalized idealization and subtle devaluation the psychopath Erodes the identity of any chosen target from an outside perspective You'll appear to have lost it while the psychopath calmly walks away completely unscathed Psychopath goes for pity plays and sympathy stories. Their bad behavior always has sob story roots They claim to behave this way because of an abusive ex an abusive parent an abusive cat They say that all they've ever wanted is some peace and quiet. They say they hate drama It is more drama surrounding them than anyone you've ever known Psychopaths go through the mean and sweet cycle. Sometimes they shower you with attention Sometimes they ignore you sometimes they criticize you they treat you differently in public than they do behind closed doors It could be talking about marriage one day and breaking up the next you never know where you stand with them They put forth as little effort as possible and then step it up when you try to disengage from them suitable for all these other contexts And they feed him they give him clothes He gets to go to a party and drink. He says everybody's very nice to me here.  He attacks a guy in a mall And in another case he there are reasons for getting kicked out Yeah, but like he doesn't do things like that in the community I I had a question related to that like I just I couldn't read it myself about the intention that like two Parts were one why he attacked the guy in the job when he was the photographer Why he started being aggressive to him. I thought like maybe something to do with commanders or more or something like that maybe but the second one was Oh god, it slipped my mind now. It'll come back But there was a scene I couldn't interpret like oh, yeah, that's it where he Give the alcohol to the man, right? And you seen before that he was talking with the man and he said you look like my follower And then they started accusing him of poisoning him and I thought that he had intentionally Poisoned him but Matt didn't read it like that and I was kind of curious what And question in the chat and you want to hear done no cap So I usually don't use caffeine. I was raised as something Adventist where caffeine is a sin and then over the past past Six years seven years. I've used caffeine intermittently. So I would say 90% of the time I don't use caffeine, but then I love having it in the bullpen All right, so I was up until 12 30 last night watching the end of Ozark I probably should have used some caffeine this morning But I love knowing that it's in the bullpen. So if I need to be functional or even more than functional I can bring it in it's going to have a dramatic effect on me because I usually don't touch it You guys felt about that and also the the scene where you attacked the guy because I didn't really understand why Except, you know, he's a weird guy Yeah, I was just going to say I didn't see that as intentional But maybe reckless what he did and yeah, I think this is somebody who really just has trouble Maintaining any kind of connection even temporary of I'm going to take your picture for 10 minutes like he really can't do it. He also has clearly like sexual problems impudence That is something that is just a general part of his social dysfunction And that's why I would say that I think even though he ends up leaving them Multiple times there is something about this community that I would say is distinct From when he tries to blend in with other areas of life I have formulated a mini theory for your evaluation here in listening to what you guys are saying One of the things that I think I read in a review was the connection with the the theme of family in this movie The old man that he kills Or causes to die. Yeah, we tend to repeat our relationships with our family into our broader relationships And so we get this template for how to relate to people from early on in childhood And then we just tend to keep acting it out acting it out back to this terrific book psychopath free Another sign that you were the psychopath this person becomes your entire life Spending more of your time with them and their friends less time with your own Network they are or you think about or you talk about you isolate yourself to make yourself more available for them You cancel plans eagerly await by the phone for the next communication So the relationship involves many sacrifices on your and few on theirs arrogance Despite the humble sweet image they present in the early stages start to notice some Mistakable air superiority about them. They talk down to you if you're intellectually deficient and emotionally unstable They have no shame when it comes to flaunting new targets after the breakup Ensuring that you see how happy they are without you. Oh another thing I remember our christine She hated it when she'd asked me a question and I would respond with google it In fact, every woman I have known has hated it when I responded to their questions with google it on the other head I don't want to enable You know pathetic behavior like you shouldn't ask people questions that you can figure out on your own 29 sign number 29 backstabbing gossip that changes on a whim They plant little seeds of poison whisper about everyone idealize them to their face and then complain about them behind their backs Find yourself disliking or resenting people you've never met might even feel special for being the only one that She complains to once a relationship turns sour. They'll run back to everyone.  You remind me of my father, right? And then that guy dies The man in the mall is you know, he's asking me if he's a family man And uh, roger says what if coffee and cigarettes are your only hope then if coffee and cigarettes are your only hope then You're probably best clinging to them until you build Other hopes in your life now if porn is your only hope then I think generally speaking you'd be better off quitting porn and going through the bleakness and the emptiness and the despair and then finding your way out to a better life and With all these things a good 12 step program I have found the most effective because you go into a 12 step program you meet people you get a community You make friends you can identify with other people there. They can understand you better often than your own family So it's easier and quicker to form bonds You get opportunities to contribute to a community to volunteer in small ways such as setting up chairs or making the coffee You can go outside the meeting and smoke cigarettes with people And you can get a sponsor and you can go through intense personal change But most important you get that human connection and 12-step meetings are all about sharing stories that you can resonate with and relate to to varying degrees And if he's there for his wife and he attacks him I think he's looking for an unable to find a father figure because he's so destructive and note The father that he was trying out he killed It seems as if Dodd is Taking the elixir and surviving not dying He is shown that he's going to take on that role And I think that one of the reasons he leaves is as he has adopted this surrogate family in a way that it doesn't seem He ever had one and he plays out an adolescence And you know at the end of adolescence as anthropologists will tell us we leave right like that's He's actually leaving of his own accord for the first fucking time in his life Right. He's not getting shipped off to war. He's not getting run out of the cabbage farm for killing He's not getting kicked out of the apartment store. I finally found a surrogate father. I like the movie night Yeah, Dave pretends to be a Philistine, but he actually has some insightful like film analysis I was sitting there going oh But you know So the time that he he actually goes back to the girl's house the girl that he So I've been going to a lot of singles events recently And I noticed that the the men who are most successful are those who are playful right those who are outgoing There is such a thing as a more socially effective personality If you are shy if you are withdrawn if you are awkward if you're lacking in confidence, obviously You're neither going to do particularly well meeting women But you're also not going to do very well in life in general, right the socially effective personality is more outgoing than introverted is more conscientious is more agreeable than disagreeable is low in neuroticism and Has above average levels of openness to new experience So when I was when I'm dating someone I want someone who's reasonably open to doing something new Right, it's not a lot of fun trying to date and relate Someone who's closed off lift and you know unsuccessfully reconnects with her That's kind of what a young adult does after they leave home, right? It's actually ready to say Yeah, and when he starts to do the processing at the end in the like sexing right where he's trying to forget the woman to do Processing but that fits. That's kind of what you're saying Yeah Do you get the sense that he's finally able to have sex in that scene? I think so, right? Well, I I hadn't tweaked about the impotence, but yeah, what's the impotence? Where where are you getting the impotence? Well, just like he always is like with the girl at the department store and he kind of falls asleep when they're going out to eat and then He has these like kind of pre-sex things where he's like, let's fuck to the transcribers who are right, but we never actually see him able to take any of those Right completion to support that family does slip out during yeah, but he says put it back in which means that it can I remember my first time with this woman and Uh, I was not as young as I used to be and I got a little nervous and and she was on top and then uh What can I say I I didn't I I did not equip myself well and afterwards there's this like beautiful woman said I've never had that happen to me before Ah, not not a not a triumph so Richard Spencer tweets Trump returning to Twitter is just a matter of time The entire business model of alt-tech parlor gab truth getter is conservatives are getting censored one motivation for along musk to post cringe conservative means Memes is to cut off the possibility of niche alt-tech rising and succeeding well alt-tech is arising and succeeding with things like rumble and things like odyssey and Vitalik buterin tweets the largest consequence of alon taking over twitter They will be not any specific policy decision He makes rather the morale effect of his supporters feeling emboldened and his detractors feeling like they are arguing on enemy territory This is happening already That's a great point. I mean think of just the morale boost the people got seeing donald trump come out of nowhere Mount hostile takeover of the republican party and then mount a successful hostile Takeover of the american political system We need a close-up to to to get to the bottom of this But you're right tamler that he has pre-sex and whether or not he's a stud at the end there It is the first time we see him Really do it. Yeah, and in some way, you know, and he's lumbering at it and his Yeah, his processing sucks, right? His idea of processing is like a real stripped out He's not really doing it right, but he is finally like his own. Yeah I I also it's really irrelevant mine It's so irrelevant that I gotta mention it anyway that you know the stuff you were talking about the techniques that They kind of work right that they break down Even if it isn't it's better than the fucking ink blot rorschach Test I also took that as an indictment of those techniques because it seemed to me to be saying that Yes, these do work, but like Getting people to sit opposite each other So it's like the pickup artist community So to to a certain degree many guys will benefit from learning how to be more outgoing and more playful with women But when it crosses a certain point It it encourages like these anti-social, you know, women hating Uh destructive downward spirals that just take over your life So there are a lot of things a little bit can be good. So my alexander technique teacher julia quarter. She was also Neil Strauss's alexander technique teacher and she would go to many of Neil Strauss's seminars and talk about the alexander technique That's how I heard about the alexander technique I heard it was good for posture and for the voice. I knew I needed help with both and The the Neil Strauss book the game said, you know women like guys with good posture So I thought oh, I need to have better posture and learn the alexander technique So Julia Julia would go along to some of Neil Strauss's seminars. So yeah a little bit of some things Makes can make a dramatic improvement in your life But uh too much and too much of anything becomes toxic. You can drink too much water, obviously atherin d tweets on twitter tweets We hear a lot about the social mobility in america with the focus usually on the comparative ease of moving up Less discussed is how easy it is to go down I think that the downward fall is going to be very fast not just for us as individuals, but for the entire preppy glass And then you are Responds preppy is a fashion and a cargo cargo court to a class Is a resort of the pervasive notion in america that you are what you wear And that you should fake it till you make it and stare at each other and that scene where they're they're supposed to Tell troops to each other. These are all things. I don't know if Scientologists specifically do this I think they do but like they're they're associated with cult movements, right? They have these techniques that force intimacy And that it works it really works because like they've Pamela they've done psychology studies where people have picked like hurt boxes where If you force people to reveal secrets intimate secrets Afterwards they feel more, you know like close like it because that's what humans do when they become close to someone They reveal Information so if you artificially create that and I felt the movie was saying that these guys are good at doing that They are intuitively or not. They understand how these manipulative things work and they're using them To draw people in this could be me layering my own and okay breaking news. We have the first muslim religious woman appearing on the cover of playboy a scholarship opportunity so Come on. Here we go. I want to hear what she has to say So if you or someone you know is in college keep listening or just keep listening because I have some things to share with you I have really been on the journey these days really getting intimate with my own story and who I've come from My great grandmother who I knew is one of the wisest women to walk the earth wasn't able to read My grandmother who's one of my best friends wasn't able to finish her formal education But got the education of the world My mom who went to college got her master's and runs a nonprofit Was the same person to take me to my writing and reading camps and helped me in my pursuit of being a storyteller And so that gets me thinking about who comes after me and who comes after us one of my friends recently said something about us being other people's ancestors and that Just stuck with me Because we are going to be other people's ancestors at some point and we do have to think about writing their future so That brings me to this incredible initiative the write her future program land come and the NAACP have partnered to grant 30 $10,000 scholarships to women of color who are currently pursuing their college education I myself paid for all of my college and journalism education through scholarships and grants and this is definitely one I would have applied for so you can go on land come dot com Okay, very inspiring so Here she is Lovely lovely muslim lady beautiful And she's got lots of press there. She is in vogue. She's a journalist journalist. Noor Toguri talks About compassionate storytelling fighting stigma and shining a light on the margins I knew I was going to be a great journalist with the hijab on So media wonder can noor Toguri makes a forceful case for modesty so Yeah, you don't you don't see that in in playboy very much So what the heck is happening here? Noor Toguri playboy I mean Please please be modest there Okay Very inspiring and empowering so for any Anyone with preconceived ideas about women who choose to wear a headscarf every day noor or two Guri is disorienting. She's simply not what you expect a 22 year old journalist She likes to call herself a storyteller on the verge of becoming this country's first hijab wearing news anchor She's an on-air reporter for newsy where she provokes a sort of confusion We could use right now by making a surprisingly bold case for modesty There's a badass activist with a passion for demanding change and asking the right questions accompanied by beauty ad looks Toguri forces us to ask ourselves why we have such a hard time wrapping our minds around a young woman Who consciously covers her head and won't take no for an answer Wait, so it's good that she won't take no for an answer But when I don't won't take no for an answer like I get shot up with tear gas Like I I have 911 calls made on me I get arrested by the police like I'm the bad guy because I won't take no for an answer But she's the good woman because she won't take no for an answer That's sexism. That's sexism plain and simple. This is why we need men's rights activists Like she's being praised for never taking no for an answer. You know who also never took no for an answer Harvey Weinstein Harvey Weinstein never took no for an answer. Do we venerate Harvey Weinstein because he never took no for an answer? This is anti muslim anti male discrimination and I would stand for it application on top Well, no guy agree Yeah, it's interesting because whether or not you call it manipulative has just simply to do with whether or not You find the ends appropriate, right? Because you're right. There is actually like in social psychologists relationship They use this Method to get two people in the lab to get to know each other really fast, right? It's like a whole technique where you divulge information to each other It's well and it works and so the thing is no I don't think any of us here would disagree with the claim that cults are effective at giving people These tools to bond with other humans I think what our judgment is about whether it's fake or not It has more to do with whether or not we think that the goals of that bonding are manipulated Rather than whether or not people have bonded. It's effective and also I think that There's a way to look at this and say Well, all this is doing is just normal intimacy and it would be much healthier for him to Have this intimacy without all the bullshit But clearly that's not in the cards for him. He has no opportunity to do that In a way that wouldn't involve the right. So what about men who use porn or who? patronize prostitutes or strippers who otherwise would not get any from from a woman All right, what a man men who are so disfigured or so dysfunctional Also beaten down by life their only chance for female contact is to pay for it I mean, I can't get on my high horse about them I think most men it would be better off not patronizing prostitutes But if that's the only way certain men can get female contact He's kind of cult like aspect So I think it's really asking the question of four people who are truly lost and aimless and who Feel like their existence is kind of a joke Is this something that is actually helpful or beneficial for them? In spite of the fact that there's all this metaphysics behind it That is crazy right so during a particularly downtime in my life in 2009 when I was transitioning away from being a full-time writer and trying to recreate a new life I joined up with a yoga studio and He looks so slim look eat well. Thank you. So During that downtime. I enjoyed this Kundalini yoga studio and you can find all sorts of arguments online where Kundalini yoga is Is a cult why it's it's bad for your health Why it's bad for your social life? Why, you know, it's wrecked various people's lives And I would go to class and I couldn't do many of the possessions because I was so lacking in flexibility I would go to class and I wouldn't do many of the procedures because I couldn't do them without tensing and constraining my neck or ingraining like negative Muscular hoarding patterns, which I was trying to release through my study of the alexander technique so I'd often go there and just kind of lie there in class and Many of the teachings didn't didn't make any sense to me, but I just like the ethos man I just like the the tea the Kundalini tea. I just like the environment. I just like the people I met It was it was my safe space. So you don't have to You don't have to believe in the message of a particular group To get some benefit from joining it So I I got a fantastic Jewish girlfriend from from joining this Kundalini yoga studio I became friendly with this woman who became a conservative rabbi Who was a regular there and she told me how she got her smika her rabbinic ordination From from two teachers, you know one at the university of Judaism And then the other one was guru sing at Kundalini yoga Like is it still better than Living this atomized life of bouncing from job to job and never being able to actually have sex even when I remember one time I was looking for a job and I accurately listed I 10 I listed jobs that I held over the previous 12 years and I listed even though I only had two primary employers over the past 12 years I listed five different jobs on my resume and when I sent the resume out I got about a 10 percent response about 10 percent of the places that Employers that I sent my resume out to they responded and then I got this flash insight. I should just list my two main employers So I've had two at the time I'd had two main employers for 12 years. I should just list them And when I did that I got a 50 percent response rate Like people loved that I listed just two main employers because they're used to getting resumes from people who work a year here and a year there and 18 months here and Like why would you invest in an employee when when they're so transactional? Like I like having you know a long-going relationship with a client or with an employer and just I just got a phenomenal response rate I mean people were like calling me up people were pursuing me people were praising me It was amazing how that resonated with people that I wasn't just someone who bounced around You know, I'm willing to make a commitment, you know, I'm willing to hang in there all right A job for me is largely about the relationships that you form with with people there And that I would be a stare that you know, I'd hang in there and that I'd look at this thing as going long term And maybe the reason I left that had you know was only about The job was moving to a place that wasn't convenient for me and I just remember how much that resonated with employers, you know, it's this hot department store worker How about tamlo that same where he God tells him no one else likes you just me right like Yeah, I've had people say that to me Or you know, nobody else gets your sense of humor. I'm the only person So I've often said something in front of a group a crowd of 10 people 20 people 50 people And afterwards one person would come up and say, you know, I really admired that joke It was pretty risky. It's pretty edgy. Everyone else was offended But I was laughing inside Tell them did you read that as like he wanted to hurt him so that he was kind of saying I'm the only one that recognizes you has merit because With my reading of that thing I I keep feeling like I'm a fellow stein Is that freddy actually felt that he had connections with the other people in the group and then dod Cruely told them none of that's real. I'm the only person that likes you I'm the only reason you're there and that felt to me like manipulative and cruel even if it was true because it felt like freddy Did feel that he was accepted by the other people. So I just check it out. Am I a piece of I think it's true But I think what he was saying isn't wrong Those people were ready to throw him under the bus at the first opportunity And never mind like the rest of the world that he's always running away from so I think it's true But I also think it was Maybe a manipulative thing to say at that moment. Yeah, no, I think it's just upset. You know what I mean Okay, let's get a little bit more here from Noura Tuguri on misrepresentations of muslims in the media I called them terrorists everybody. I knew everybody.   I've been such a big fan of your work So I've just been excited to sit and chat with you because you do talk about so many things that I'm also passionate about Not only are you using social media to your benefit, but you created your own production company called at your service So why was that an important part for you to tell the stories you wanted to tell? I always wanted to be a journalist, but I always struggled with How I was able to approach stories because I was often told that I had to be extra careful that my story wouldn't be So generally speaking orthodox Jewish groups side with muslims on the protecting rights for wearing headscarves or protecting rights to go to a law court within within your own Religion so sharia law essentially because Traditional jews operate or are supposed to operate according to halakha Jewish law So to then orthodox Jewish groups generally support the right of muslims to operate sharia law courts and the like Be bias. It's impossible to be unbiased when you're wearing a headscarf. They were consistently politicizing the hijab You know, you don't say that about someone wearing a cross necklace and then I Right think about all the porn stars where across necklace while they're getting pronged by 15 different parolees Realize that my strength in my storytelling Was who I was it was my identity every person has a human experience a human story They have their own perspective and that isn't a bad thing. It's a great thing Right because so often you can't control who tells your story And people feel misrepresented in media. So the the headscarf all right, that is more More jarring to to a western sensibility even than the The much more limited hair covering that orthodox jewish women do so the more you jar the sensibility The more pushback you're going to get So a headscarf like this is is you know more in your face More more jarring than say wearing a yamaka or just a head covering often Or they are just straight up misrepresented like I have been misrepresented more times than I have been properly represented I really believe that Storytelling is a form of service. And so we wanted people to know like you can trust us and we're always at your service I know president biden recently lifted the muslim ban, which many believe was rooted in xenophobia You mentioned that you've received criticism for flying with the hijab. So can you just take me through the experience of traveling and again people not really realizing that people still have those stereotypes in place I just like kind of had to hack the process because I knew Well, why do people have stereotypes? Why do people have stereotypes about christians jews blacks muslims? Because of the behavior of some of the more extreme members of those groups.  Wait, wait. So you're waiting Okay, come on now.    She doesn't have to wear the headscarf, right? She's choosing this more confrontational way to go through life Just like I choose that when I go through life with a yarmulke and there's a price to pay Right choosing to do your own thing Right, it's gonna bring you into conflict with the wider community All that video like that viral video of the white guy who Screamed getting off the plane and was like i'm on the no fly list. They're calling me a terrorist They keep me off the plane. They call me a f***ing terrorist I didn't know that in my lifetime I would see a white man go through I didn't know that in my lifetime I would see a white man go through what always happens to muslims for no reason It's just been interesting to see the media adjust that language finally what happened at the capital It is domestic terrorism according to the definition And I was like It doesn't really give me a good feeling to tell to call somebody else a terrorist Because white supremacists will never be considered Okay, there was a terror aspect to what happened on january 6th But to call them terrorists. I don't think it's fair Because that wasn't primarily what was going on Right, they weren't just randomly killing people Right, there was a terror aspect So I can see why Some would want to call them terrorists But terrorists are usually people we think of when you say terrorist someone who blows up a plane That's someone who goes into a building and you know sets off a bomb right These people were raucous demonstrators Some members of which acted in ways that inspired terror So these were mostly peaceful Mostly people peaceful people who were trespassing And then some of them The substantial portion but still a minority Were were acting in in dangerous th