I'm going to read them because I want to make sure I hit the notes I wanted to hit. So let me just introduce Kishona to you all. So Kishona, Dr. Kishona Gray is assistant professor in communication and gender and women studies at the University of Illinois at Chicago. She is a faculty associate at Harvard's Berkman Center and was previously a recipient of the MLK visiting professor position here at MIT. So I think a number of you got a chance to know Kishona personally if you hadn't seen her before then. She's also been a faculty visitor with our friends down the road at Microsoft, New England, the social media collective. Kishona is the author or co-editor of numerous books and articles, including her foundational 2014 work, race, gender, and deviance in Xbox Live, 2018's edited collections, woke gaming and feminism in play, and recently intersectional tech, which I was very excited to get my physical copy of the other day. Black users in digital gaming. And she also has a book currently under contract with NYU entitled Black Cyberfeminism or How Intersectionality Went Viral, which I know all of us are really excited for. Kishona is a highly sought after speaker, as I'm sure many of you know, and we're lucky to have her today. And she regularly addresses both academic and industry audiences, such as the Game Developers Conference. She's the winner of a number of awards over the years. Most recently, the Evelyn Gilbert Ung-Sung Hero Award from the Academy of Criminal Justice Sciences. And when I read that, I thought, oh, I think that heroicness is increasingly sung. And I hope even more so because she is an amazing scholar and person. Any of us who know Kishona know that she is not only a vibrant intellectual force doing some of truly the best work out there, but one of the most generous and collaborative people we've met. And I really say that from my heart. Let me just say a few more words about the impact her research has been making over the years. I first met Kishona through our shared interest in gaming and was really immediately struck by how generative her work was. It was a really important moment in my own intellectual trajectory to engage with her research. And it has affected game studies in profoundly important ways, centering issues of race, gender, intersectionality, and justice. These inspired scholars, both old and new, to expand what we're tackling. And I really feel like, I mean, especially I meet so many junior scholars for whom Kishona is just such an important waypoint in their trajectory. And I think I know I'm really grateful to have her in the field for that. I consider her one of the key people pushing the field and doing some of the most truly most important work out there. She's always beautifully balancing what I think of as an attention to structures of oppression and exclusion, but with the vibrant and lived ways people resist, survive, and thrive. And that is a delicate balance to try to do in really good work. I wanted to know too that Kishona is as much a scholar of media and technology as she is of games. She's written on social media as well as critical theories of race and technology. I think she does an amazing job situating games within a broader conversation. And that is, in fact, one of the things I so value about her work. And in fact, I consider this most recent book in particular, and I'm going to show it to plug it again, really a kindred to the kind of work we're seeing from people like Ruha Benjamin, Andre Brock, and Safiya Noble and their recent monographs. So I really see her contributions as vital, not just for game studies and people interested in games, but anyone thinking about critical media studies and technology studies. And so if you can't tell, I'm a huge fan girl and very honored to be able to introduce her today. Dr. Gray. T.L., you're going to have me cry in it. Thank you, T.L. That was such a beautiful and generous introduction.  And I think that was after hearing, you know, your words, T.L. And, you know, you've expressed this like before, like, I'm just I often like say, like I'm just here so I don't get fined, right? You don't just hear doing the things just so I can, you know, get tenure. And like, I think I get caught in like the routine of just like the academic grind of like, we're doing things. Okay, I did this to get a promotion. We do this like so I can be marketable. I do this so I can get a job. I do this so I can get tenure, you know.  And like, it's just like, it's really humbling, you know, I don't I don't have any more words like beyond that to just say that it's very humbling. Thank you so much, T.L. And thank you, you know, to like the MIT community for inviting me like to to to come and share and to learn from you all. And, you know, we learned from each other. And I think it was just like released like such a I enjoyed my time. And I know it was a stressful time, you know, like whenever I was I was there and it was one of those things I didn't really like take in like just like how significant that moment was like to be there like in that space.   I'm like, yeah, they're like, wait a minute, you were there, you know, like with these amazing scholars, these like with Sasha. I'm like, yeah, Sasha's cool, T.L.'s cool.  So I'm I'm forever grateful and I'm humbled. And the other thing, you know, writing books is interesting. I'm going to get to it. I'm so sorry. I have so much to talk about.  This is why I have to write stuff down now. I've reached a point in my career where I have to write it down because I just started thinking about all these things that I want to talk about. But I think this is something, especially like for junior folks, people who are like thinking about like writing books and, you know, like for students who are like in this space, it's so interesting because you spend so much time intimately like connected to this work, right? Like, so I've been writing this book for a while now, right? And it's like out there in the world and it's so brand new for everybody. Like for me, like I'm ready to go on to the next thing, you know? Like I don't want to talk about the book anymore, you know? But, you know, so I always say that because I still I don't know how to do like a book talk. I kind of approach this as like a book talk.  But I also want to like talk about, let me share the screen. I also wanted to let me make sure I share the right thing. And I'm not sure if you all will be able to see me still. Hopefully you can still see me somewhere on the screen and you can see. OK, thumbs up. Thank you. Thank you so much. I was in the when I was thinking about putting this this talk together. There was a quote from it was like an accidental interview that I did, right?  I've got two kids, you know, there's seven and nine now. So we library hop, right?  You know, we did that while we were in Boston, you know, we did that like we were in Phoenix.   And I was paying attention to these young folks that were gaming, right? They I don't think they were supposed to be gaming, but I think they had there was like some plan programming they were supposed to be doing, but they had their phones out, right? And I could tell what they were doing. They were playing Fortnite in these phones, right? And so I started like these conversations like with these with these young folks.  Let me let me let me let me read this quote, right? Let me let me just also just read what I've written. Intersectional tech was born out of the desire to elevate the innovative cultural production of black users inside tech, often being touted as poster children for the digital divide. The technical capabilities of black folks are often overlooked as they may not fit within traditional modes of engaging with technology. Now, I'm not interested in exploring reasons for the digital divide. My work could care less about the digital divide. Why? Because it begins from a deficit model without ever interrogating how marginalized folks may engage differently because of a lack of resources or a lack of access. Now, moving away from this deficit model of what people don't have, it is necessary to explore the ways black users create hybrid infrastructures, recognizing the importance of physical and digital spaces and their technological innovativeness. So I want to engage with this quote. So back here, I told you all the story about me being at these libraries. So I started talking with these young folks and this quote stuck with me, right? Ain't no internet at home. Ain't no Wi-Fi. I stole this galaxy. If I wasn't here in the public library, there's no telling what I'd be doing. Damn, show wouldn't be Fortnite. At hearing or reading these words, what might you first direct your attention to? Now, if I provide you with additional context that this youth is a black boy, he's from Inglewood, it's a neighborhood on Chicago's south side. He's from a single parent household. His older brother recently died from gun violence. Now, traditional methods for researching would automatically pathologize his experience. The deficit deficit model would want to engage the individual reasons for his family's realities. Maybe a concerned researcher wouldn't want to engage the structural barriers leading to his exclusion. Some scholars would totally ignore these realities and say that all he needs is access to the internet that will solve his problems. Some might focus on the criminal aspect of stealing and trying to find resources so he can avoid this life of crime. Most of us would turn on that white savior complex and activate our white guilt to feel bad for this kid because we have more privileges than he does. What we would fail to do is explore how in spite of all of this, this young human has found a way to still participate and engage in the space that gives him a temporary break from his realities. The question that I immediately asked myself when Darius made this comment was what could I learn from him? What can I learn from what he has created and designed and constructed? And this question allows me to engage in his realities. It allows me to engage in the structural barriers, the institutional oversight and the public neglect. It also forces me to engage in his intersecting identities. And this is intersectional tech. Through this framework, I explore the ways that our identities intersect with technological tools, artifacts and systems that have been mobilized to draw connections between digital and physical spaces in realities. Gaming has become the glue that binds my projects where I explore how black users engage with physical and visual textual and oral practices to illustrate how gaming can be used as a catalyst for educating and supporting other users of digital technologies. Gaming is often a medium that's outside of conversations on blackness and digital practices, and it's one that's becoming more visible, viable and legible in making sense of black techno culture. Intersectional tech implores us to make visible the force of discursive practices that position practices within disorderly social hierarchies and arrangements. The explicit formulations of the normative order are sometimes in disagreement with the concrete human condition as well as inconsistent with the consumption and production practices that constitute black digital labor, but also our pleasure and our desires. So you know what intersectional tech is, but how did I get here? The development of this project has been a decade in the making, but using the words of black creator Khalif Adams in 2014 was the proverbial backbreaking straw, I'll read this quote. I felt like both the gaming space in the real world had hit this level of toxicity that was unsustainable. And for the first time in a long time, I didn't know what or how to express how I felt about them. So I sat down, thought about what good could we do in the gaming space and how we could affect change in whatever small way we could as an entity. Then the Eric Garner incident happened and it was the proverbial backbreaking straw. Many black users around games often remark that they have a moral obligation to serve their community and mobilize their platforms for community support, especially because they just play games. Take the death of Eric Garner by the New York Police Department, for example. Eric Garner succumbed to the state-sanctioned chokehold by Officer Daniel Pantaleo for selling loose cigarettes. His death captured on video, catapulted the already invigorated Black Lives Matter movement, often signaled by the phrase, I can't breathe. There was a plethora of responses to the unarmed black men dying at the hands of the police, including responses from the gaming communities. Khalif Adams, co-creator of the gaming podcast, Spawn On Me, stated that he wanted to use his gaming and podcasting platforms to bring awareness to deaths of the unarmed by the police. His Spawn For Good initiative was one of the first to censor gaming technologies to discuss Black Lives Matter. He used Twitch to stream messages about the racist treatment of black people by law enforcement and generated funds to help the family of Eric Garner cover burial cause. During the two-day event, Khalif also provided information on other cases of police abuse of power, including Mike Brown and E. Zell Ford. There was constant backlash and resistance by gamers who suggested that Twitch was not the platform to express support for Black Lives Matter. But Khalif Adams affirmed that he streams for those who want to be the change they wish to see in the world. I offer this example as one of many that can be interrogated through a lens of intersectional techno culture. While public discussions around gaming culture often focus on the toxic elements negatively impacting the marginalized, there are thriving groups utilizing online environments and their related tools to sustain their communities. Trolls and other toxic actors may dominate certain conversations in public and private spheres. However, we must begin to focus on the communities that Black bodies in particular create and sustain. Gamers who live stream on Twitch, Mixer, YouTube, I don't even think Mixer is a thing anymore, while experiencing racism and harassment also express that they are able to create networks of Black gamers, streamers and others demonstrating the innovativeness of Black digital practices in gaming contexts. From console to mobile gaming, to multiplayer and to streaming, these spaces have become increasingly transmediated, incorporating visual, oral and textual media across technological forms of media. The concept of transmedia described the way that new technologies have been used to extend traditional mediated narratives to other forms of media and takes into account the shifting patterns of movement by both texts and audiences across distinct but interrelated platforms, acknowledging the physical along with the digital. Utilized here, I explore the complicated relationship that Black users have within structures and how they use these technologies to recognize, acknowledge and complicate the role that Blackness has had in the everyday practices and production of these users. Well, hopefully this plays for you all. Let's see, I might have to go to... Let's see. Is that playing for you all? Somebody give me a thumbs up. OK, perfect, perfect. All right, so take hair now, for example. That's weird, because all the screens are like up there. I don't know how to find my notes anymore. But y'all saw it, y'all know hair now. Take hair now for an example. Created by Momo Pixel, hair now allows players to customize an avatar who can smack away as many white hands as possible as they attempt to touch locks, twists, braids and relaxed black hair. The game quickly went viral. Both the game and its residents captured a convergence of powerful contemporary racial and gender dynamics and histories from Black hair politics to the history of white supremacy as it relates to the hyper-policing and surveillance of Black women's bodies. Yet the game's power reflects its rejection of these histories and its embrace of a virtual and physical clap back. The game's intervention, censoring of Blackness and embrace of resistance all embodies the game's refusal of erasure. From its conception to reception, hair now exemplifies the yearning for transformative games by censoring the experiences of Black women, the existence of such a game. Let me make sure to go here. Momo Pixel, I want to make sure, let's say her name. She's the creator of hair now. By censoring the experiences of Black women, the existence of such a game is disruptive in itself as it illustrates the power and potential to use video games, online technology and gaming culture to highlight the experiences of Black women and other marginalized communities, resisting and otherwise challenging dehumanizing representation. Now, I come back to the concept of space and making sense, excuse me, I come back to the concept of space and making sense of Momo Pixel's contributions. Space does not simply exist as a given, but is constructed and affects and is affected by those with the most power. In this way, space is not just a passive backdrop to human behavior and social action, but it's constantly produced and remade within complex relations of culture, power and difference. It is this rejection where scholars offer a more critical constructionist notion of space that informs my work. In an attempt to make playing the importance of space and the creation and construction of Black women's identities, more specifically, this reflection explores how Black women make sense of spaces that they occupy, especially that they are, that's not traditionally crafted or constructed for them. By interrogating the actual back and forth travel from digital to physical spaces that Black women engage, we are able to see how they sustain their identities, to support social movements both online and off in a form of discursive activism. So, hair-knock can be viewed as a form of discursive activism, which refers to speech or text that seek to challenge dominant social discourse by exposing flawed assumptions or representing reality in order to rewrite the norms and practices of society. Nancy Frazier considers discursive politics as an essential strategy of political resistance. This discursive activism disrupts the sensibilities of sacred symbolic space that has been constructed and reimagined by those who restrict Black women's access into those spaces. Now, I explore the everyday practices of excluding Black women, not in a traditional sense, or by Black women are excluded based on perceptions of inferiority, but in the progressive landscape of white women's feminism, anti-Blackness, Black men's protectionism for Black women that produces a particular kind of domination where there is an idealized notion of womanhood and Blackness, and Black women are not included. While not explicitly stated, a lot of my work provides this revisioning and reimagining of Black women's rage, which is typically viewed as a destructive emotion offering no value to modern society. Lord offers a, Audrey Lord, excuse me, Audrey Lord offers a compelling critique of rage in engaging the useful aspects of this emotion while also balancing its limitations. The systematic devaluation of Black womanhood has given rise to not only interracial oppression, but intraracial practices of devaluation and exclusion as well. We continue to see the proliferation of Black women's historical misrepresentation repackaged in contemporary ways. From Aunt Jemima to Sapphire to the angry Black woman, these caricatures of Black women are used in attempts to flatten the complexity of Black womanhood, simplifying the intricacies of Black women's anger, sexualities and relationships, and rehashing them as stereotypes to attempt to control Black women's bodies. This demonization becomes dangerous as these singular narratives delimits societal engagement with Black women. There's no holistic understanding of the roots of these images. Thus, the anger that emerges from Black women in response to these controlling images is loaded with information and energy. The information and energy is generated from the rage among other emotions, provide Black women with an arsenal to transform the rage into advocating for liberating and transforming the disenfranchised experiences of marginalized folks. And as Audre Lorde states, we have to use that anger. From Audre Lorde to Bell Hooks, their theorizing of Black feminine rage proves useful as a tool to weave through the structures of oppression, inside game and technologies. And these digital spaces crafted by Black women, there is a process to engage with the rage so often quelled by society. We have to undo the haunting of that demonization that came in response to our rage, suggesting that our anger has no legitimacy. The Black women within the work that I've done, within intersectional tech and the previous work that I've done, they mobilize their rage in strategic ways, validating each other's feelings while society deems them as destructive and inappropriate. Just as Audre Lorde, Bell Hooks, just as they did in creating public spaces for the expression of Black female rage, especially in academic spaces, these women too create intersectional counterpublics. Their work inside the spaces of digital gaming provides spaces to heal the intersectional wounds and collective traumas from white supremacy, Black patriarchy, white feminism, and so many others. These spaces validate the rage of Black women's experiences. Now Bell Hooks asks the question, why is the rage of Black folks about white supremacy made to appear ridiculous? The centrality of Bell Hooks's question adheres to the necessity of Black women's rage to generate the attention needed to begin making structural changes to transform lives. Black women in gaming deploy storytelling, critical theorizing, and remembrance practices to comprehend, resist, transform, and heal from the patriarchy, the racism, the colonization, and the history of slavery and constructing, creating, and sustaining spaces for their intersectional realities in gaming. Now what does all this have to do with Darius in his opening quote? It is necessary to begin exploring the contributions of Black users through a framework that I am calling and it's inside intersectional tech and it's called hybrid infrastructures. Now I'm hearing dings, I wanna make sure that everybody can still hear me. Give me a thumbs up TL if you can, okay, perfect. Now I wanna sit, before we get back to Darius, I wanna share this other story. On a winter morning in 2014, four Black women met digitally in an online forum to discuss their varied experiences within the onslaught of the GamerGate campaign. GamerGate, as most of us know, began as a problem surrounding ethics and video game journalism where intimate relationships influenced the objectivity of video game reviews. This quickly devolved into a harassment campaign against women by mostly men who were being forced to accept the inclusion of women and increase diversity in game narratives. Now these four women who identify racially as Black mostly express their concerns over invisibility as they recognize that white women's experiences with harassment were privileged. These women employed the hashtag solidarity is for white women borrowing from Mickey Kendall's work on Twitter to express concerns of being ignored while experiencing intersecting oppressions, harassment and hostility online. Now on a spring morning in 2015, these same four women met physically in New York City to support a rally for Rikia Boy. This movement led to the say her name campaign, a national call of action for Black women and girls who are victims of police violence. This specific protest that these four women were a part of it was heavily criticized for failing to generate a critical mass. It was a signal for some of the lack of seriousness taken of women as victims of police violence. The turnout for that protest in contrast to the one for Eric Garner in the same city or Freddie Gray and Baltimore during the same time reflects the continued devaluation of Black women's lives. As one of the women articulated, it's like we are out of place, like we are taking up too much space. Our concerns and voices are never heard, but we show up and show out all the time for Black men. We're like space invaders until some work needs to be done. Then they call us Renisha or Tasty Diamond 21. If you read the book, you're gonna read a lot from Tasty Diamond. This point, excuse me, this concise and powerful comment was made after the Rikia Boy rally. Renisha, also known as Tasty Diamond 21 on Xbox Live, sent this Facebook message to me, excuse me, sent this messenger to me while remarking on how few people showed up to the rally, a stark contrast to the Eric Garner rally. In this small statement, she uttered a common refrain that Black women hold about their experiences within social movements of being ignored, overworked, and undervalued. This example highlights the continued invisibility of Black women in social arenas. This example also highlights the utility of multiple modes of communicating and engaging for Black women in public and private spaces. Starting from gaming platforms to their physical mobility in urban spaces for protests, I argue that these Black women are reimagining their public spaces, creating intersectional hybrid spaces that illustrate the fluidness, the fluidness of their movements from the digital to the physical and often back to the digital. While the intersectional, transmediated hybrid practices in which women engage in gaming communities reflects the ways that they create meaning out of different texts, cultures, practices, and spaces, bridging multiple to create a hybrid summation of experiences. So what does Darius have to do with this? Everything, let me go back to his quote. In his short, powerful statement, Darius articulated not only his reality, but a particular future rooted in digital Blackness and supplemented by physical spaces. The library in his neighborhood is the place he can get access to the internet. He figured that out. His reliance on mobile technologies has enabled him to engage in this leisure activity, but it also connects him to the world. And he also shared a story of not being able to engage in Pokemon Go. And so he and his friends had to make up, they made up their own game, utilizing the AR technologies from Snapchat to do so. They also heavily relied on MASC, an organization on the South side of Chicago, men and mothers and men against senseless killing. These women occupy physical space, so their children in their neighborhoods can move freely without the fear of violence, from moving from corner to corner. So what kind of questions am I asking now? Now that I've put Darius at the center and making him the expert in his own life, what kinds of questions then should we be asking? Oh, well, you can see that screen there. I'll read here. So I'll switch my energy a little bit. So that was kind of like the book talk. This is gonna switch gears into the future work. But before I get here, I want to also, I wanna show you this map. I think it's important that we kind of like see, let me go to, hopefully this is made bigger on your screen. I need you all to visualize the space that I'm talking about, like the space that Darius resides, right? So here I have just like a screen capture of a few city blocks, right? So on the left, this is the Wi-Fi map from Chicago. Chicago touts itself as being one of the most wired cities in the United States, right? Now, if you see that little blue dot over there, I'm not sure if you can see my cursor, but that blue dot indicates the closest Wi-Fi hotspot, the publicly available Wi-Fi in this neighborhood. Now, I didn't provide the comparison map, but if we were to look on the north side of the city, if we were to look like at Lincoln Park, or if we were to look at like Magnificent Mine or the Gold Coast, this map would be full of these blue spots, okay? The next map that I want to show you is also is the Chicago, the CPL location, Chicago Public Schools. These are the libraries, excuse me, libraries. These are the libraries that are in, they're sitting in the neighborhood. Now, this is a pretty good number of libraries, right? So a lot of people, you know, often talk about, you know, how, you know, some youth in certain neighborhoods like don't have access to the libraries, right? So we can talk about them being under-resourced and not having like enough adequate staff or not having enough like collections and volumes. That's a different conversation, but just the fact that they have these libraries in their neighborhood that they can freely access and go to, I think it's very significant, okay? Now, the next map that I want to show you is the, this is the Pokemon Go Stop map, right? I'll tell you the significance of Pokemon Go, but just for right now, just keep in mind, this is Southside, this is Englewood. If you were to look at the north side of Chicago, if you would see, I think I may have a map, here we go, you can see that there is a multitude of Poke Go Stops in different areas of the city. But in Englewood, there's just these couple, and it's associated with the park. I believe there's a statue, probably a statue that needs to be torn down, to be honest. I don't even know who this is, but it's like associated with like a statue of somebody, right? Now, when these kids were, they were talking to me, whenever I was there, again, this is like some accidental research, but it just made so much sense, you know, and I gave these kids like the space to talk, and what they said was profound. They have articulated their realities like to a T, right? They said that, of course, they feel that the fact that they're black and live on the Southside, that there's not an investment into the structures that exist like within their neighborhoods, right?  Because surely this is not racism, you know, this is not rooted in legacies of like redlining. This is not digital redlining, right? This is just, you know, some simple neglect, right? So whenever we tried to like figure out how to get more Poke Go Stops in their neighborhood, we were told that their neighborhood probably wasn't ideal because it's not a safe neighborhood. They don't have sidewalks, and they needed to have like this idea of safety before they just implemented, you know, these Poke Go Stops, right? So we felt structurally that there were gonna be, there were some exclusionary practices, and but they said that if there were significant landmarks, then this neighborhood could have some Poke Go Stops. This is part of the larger project that I'm working on. We would have done it this summer, but we didn't. But what we wanted to do this summer was basically say, hey, there is significant history here. And I didn't want those young folks to feel like that their neighborhoods weren't valuable and didn't have anything to offer. I'm like, there is significant history here. So we went to the archives. Let's see if that screen is here. We went, we searched up like all kinds of archives where these young folks could see that they come from rich traditions of music traditions and sports traditions.  So the students, like they were given like this sense of like pride, you know, around their neighborhoods because all this history had been lost to them, right? And so I think I thought it was just very interesting that we had used like Poke Mon Go to like, you know, revive a lot of these history and like go through the archives, you know, dig through the crates, you know, like to, so they can see that they come from like, you know, these amazing histories, right? But I want to get back to like the questions that were asking and the questions that these young folks really made me start to like dig deeper and like think about. So, you know, some of the guiding questions that, you know, that are informing like a lot of this future work, how did geographically isolated youth utilize publicly available tools and technologies to develop hybrid networks across communities? The, their reliance on Wafa, their reliance on public spaces, their reliance on, you know, there are these physical spaces needing to be safe was very significant. And I think that that's something that a lot of us like digital scholars and media scholars like don't contend with enough, you know, how important the physical space still is. Secondly, how have these hybrid networks influenced and develop the creation of culturally sustaining spaces? So I'm sure like the folks, you know, of course, you know, the folks at Niantic are like, are fantastic, but they probably didn't even think, hey, when we're deploying these things, like are there, do we have to also contend with like the histories and the legacies of exclusion and segregation? You know, those are one of the things that they didn't anticipate having to think about, about how the different conversations that they would need to ensure, you know, equitable access across like the cities. How do the culturally sustaining spaces impact how youth develop, develop computational makers, maker practices? The fact that these youth were using these AR technologies, let me slide over to this. The fact that these youth like were able to like utilize like these technologies, like they were experts at it, right? They had to be experts at it because there's, there's not like a massive STEM programs that are coming in and like teaching them how to do all these things. And I think that also comes from like this deficit model where, you know, we're coming in, thinking we're teaching these kids these spaces. I learned so much from these kids. I had never heard of like any of these like tools that they were utilizing on a regular basis. Snapchat was important, Wikitube like, holy, like I didn't even know what these things were until they introduced me to them.  Let me know if I'm running out of time too because I just get really excited about this.  I'm just talking now so I can easily just go. So make somebody stop me. But like whenever they were just talking to these women, they found out, you know, these beautiful stories and these rich narratives and history. And then so they basically, they made the people like significant, significant to the space. So, you know, while we could say, oh, okay, this was the first jazz musician here. This is the first, you know, Mississippi Blues, you know, club that was here. Like whatever we do that these youth are keeping people at the center of what they're doing and really highlighting the importance of like the women who were like in these spaces. I want to finish these questions because these are really important questions. What are the everyday activities and forming use computational thinking and making practices? And across these different sites, you know, from the things that we're doing here at UIC, Chicago Public Libraries and MASC, what are the design principles influencing prolonged engagement with the culturally sustaining computational maker spaces? I really, I think it's important that, you know, we start, we have more of these like collaborative like relationships. And really, I'm going to be honest, I want to utilize like in my institutional privileges to give these women some money. Like these women are doing, I wish, you know, I wanted to have some video but I didn't, I hadn't gotten IRB approval like for that part yet to basically show you all this.  These women put their physical selves on the line so their young people can play. And I don't think we take that for granted like how, you know, people who are just excluded and then what people do to make sure that people, that they can still participate. I think that that's something that we don't engage with enough. Just a little bit about this future project that I'm working on. You all know, I've been at multiple institutions, right? And I always try to connect with the communities that of these, of the locations and the communities that I'm in.  You talking about dial-up still, some of them may have dial-up. There's no broadband. There's no fiber optic wires. There's none of this in the hollers of Eastern Kentucky. These kids are excluded, but they are still figuring out ways to like participate and still be a part. And I think those things need to be illustrated and highlighted.  It's called Guadalupe. Now you would think that you have just like teleported to like some Wild West past, you know, there's still dirt roads and, you know, there's maybe like a stop sign. Like it really just seems like this old, you know, town from the Wild West, but these youth are just like, okay, we're excluded from a lot of these practices. We're excluded from these STEM fields and these STEM camps. You know, so we work to bring these things like to these kids, but we went away with learning so much from them. We didn't teach these kids anything. We were learning so much from them. And also like with the work that I'm trying to do, like with David Namer, you know, working with like the youth looking at favelas and Gabriella Richard, you know, she's trying to do the same thing, like looking at like youth in rural Pennsylvania and also looking at like youth in Philadelphia.  I feel like I'm running out of time. I know I am. Let me, I think there were a few more slides. Don't worry about those slides because I want to hear from you all.  So I want to make sure to make space. I think I know we're running out of time. I'm shutting up now.  I don't know who gets it. I'll stop sharing right now. That was great. You weren't running out of time. It was terrific. I feel like this was over in like 15 minutes. So I wanted to make sure it's, oh, okay. Okay. You're good. All good. All good. Okay. There's a lot of stuff we can follow up on. So I think we can open it up. There are those of you who are MIT folks are in the panelists group and you can chime in and raise your hand, whatever we're gonna go in. And those of you who are in the attendees panel, feel free to toss a question in the Q&A and we can get that question to Kishona. I don't know if there's any, I can try to kick one off while people are putting their thoughts together. I have a question. It's a little bit maybe of a meta conceptual. I found the point you were making about rage as praxis and mobilized rage, kind of finding a place for that in the stories, the work we're doing. And I immediately was thinking about Andre Brock's interventions now on pleasure and the libidinal and how we can sort of start grappling with that. And I'm just wondering if you think like, what does the future of critical media studies, critical internet studies look like if we really start taking those interventions seriously? Is it a methodological interventions? Is it conceptual things open up in different ways? Sort of. Absolutely, that's a fantastic question. I know me and Andre, we've had like a lot of conversations around this because I think we approach, we have the same end goal, but I think how we approach it is like a bit differently. He's really inspired by exploring pleasure and desire and focus like on joy and going away from that deficit model. I think he would probably root like a lot of the work that I do like within this like afro pessimism, right? Of how like a lot of like the jumping off parts and the jumping off points of like a lot of my work is rooted like in sexism, racism, white supremacy, right? And he always, he has like pushed my thinking into thinking and to like exploring like who are we outside of like white supremacy, right? I appreciate his questions and his challenges like to that, but I often say like as much as I would like to like look at folks' lives and their realities outside of structures of like oppression and outside of like white supremacy, so much of what we do is still is intimately connected to those realities, right? So it's hard for me. So I could easily like turn that off. I'm a pretty privileged person. I could like say, oh, you know, we have these things outside of that. But immediately, like for instance, if I talked to like, you know, a person like named Darius and you know, he expresses all these kinds of things, it's hard for me to just like ignore that and say, okay, but so what that you had to steal that phone? You've got this, you got it now, you know, let's just enjoy it and enjoy the nice things and have joy from it, right? Like I have to contend with like the realities in which, you know, he's residing. And then when he's done with our fancy space and all the fancy money that we've brought in and all these fancy things that we can do, he has to go back home, you know, to his neighborhood, right? And so, and I think that it's important to like, for me and my work, because a lot of them, you know, I don't try to say like, I'm an expert like within them, the other folks, the people who are in these and the projects that they're the experts in their own lives, they're the narrators, right? And one of the things that they often express to me is like gratitude for giving them like words and language to express what's happening around them, right? And I think that that's something that like, you know, early on like, early in my work, like, you know, I was in these communities, you know, with these other black women and they, you know, just couldn't understand why they weren't accepted in like, you know, these spaces and why things, they were being called these words and they were being like, and so, and then I gave them like the language because it was new to me, it was online disinhibition, which is, you know, like a framework that I had utilized early in my work where when people say and do things online that they normally wouldn't do in person, which we know is that's all out the water now, shit.  They know these things, but they just like having just like the language of helping to like make sense, like of their realities, right?  We know white supremacy is a thing here.  And so I just think that it's important that we just acknowledge that we don't have to be, we don't have to succumb to the atrocities associated with the legacies of like racism and like oppression, but we can be inspired by what we've been able to create in spite of, you know?  I'm not, I haven't created a thing. I just put a fancy word to something that exists already, right? Intersectional tech is just a fancy way so I can get tenure, I'm just here so I don't get fined, right? But I'm not doing anything new.  And I think that's, you know, that's just what I want to like make legible to like academic audiences. Why? Does it matter?  You know, we probably aren't, right? But maybe somebody will give me some money to make it better for a day or to like improve their conditions for a day, right? I'm gonna just be all the way honest.  I'm not improving their lives, but they are thankful that for one that, you know, so many of these kids said, you know, thank you for listening to us, you know? So many other scholars before me have come into these spaces and didn't think that they had anything to offer.  I'm like, you are the expert. Like you're living these tough lives and you've given me a chance to just to talk to you. Like I'm honored to be able to be here and talk to you for a few minutes. I just wanna make sure that other people know how dope y'all are, yeah. Yeah, that's actually a beautiful way to put it. Cause I think that one of the things I really value about your work is Shona. And I mean, I'm an ethnographer, so maybe I'm always gonna be a little biased to that. But the way you really do show the complexity and nuance and that people have in their everyday lives without diminishing the critical structural intervention and making that visible, you, as I said, I tried to say you do an amazing balancing job of those two things. So yeah. Thank you, Tio. Thank you, Tio. I need to stop crying, dammit. You're getting some love in the chat. I know we have one. Oh, am I? Yay. Yeah, you are. And we have one question in the Q&A and I just am kind of scanning. I don't see a raise hand feature for the panelists. So if there's one of the, if there's an MIT person who wants to, oh, there is, Nick, raise this hand. Okay. So, and then I'll pull the Q&A question after Nick goes. Hi, sorry for not manifesting visually. That's okay. But Shona, thanks very much for your talk. And I, you know, one of the things I wanted to ask about actually the question I have is related really to this other sort of digital divide like traditional type of media and things that are sort of high culturally ratified and then things like games. Because to me, one of the questions is not to dictate people's media diets or what games they play, but you know, Darius should know about MoaPixel's games and like that seems to be like an important connection and intersection to be made. And one of the issues there is when you go into the public library, which is a wonderful resource and it's Black History Month, there are books that are showcased for you. You can ask suggestions of the librarian. You can even get this for other, for comics. You can get this or your graphic novels. You can get those suggestions for, you know, DVDs, although that's antiquated these days. But you know, there's lots of media that are made available and sort of curated and there's suggestions for this. But the librarians are unlikely to know about video games reflecting African American experience. And so it seems to me like part of the issue and actually that, you know, one of your contributions here is making those types of connections and intersections that by developing these lists and raising awareness of what people do, the people like the Game Devs of Color this weekend and such and taking up the slack from these traditional institutions that you're providing more awareness of what's going on in game spaces here. Are there, you know, how do we further that project? You know, for all sorts of people who don't know about the games, for instance, that deal with their lives. That's a fantastic question, Nick. You highlighted a couple of things that I want to make sure to like engage with. And I think one of the benefits of this project that you just reminded me of like the importance of libraries, right? And I think sometimes we take that for granted, you know, like even like in my own classes, you know, I'm always like, I'm, I always have a project that's built around like going to the library and connecting with the librarian and trying to find like databases, right? And I think one of the things, but I always, that always exists outside of gaming, right?   And then it also like you made me, it made me think about, you know, some of the, I don't know if you all know Liz Phipps-Swearow.  She's the librarian at Cambridge Ports, the school that my kids went to. I love talking about her and invoking her name. She's the one that I guess got in hot water with the Dr. Seuss book. She remember, she refused the books from, you know, First Lady Melania Trump. But she unveiled this entire world of like librarians and like information science and how white that space is. And I think I wasn't like aware of that. So I'm not shocked at the disconnect. Like, let me also like feel you in like a little bit of the background, like from, I was only able to like connect with Darius and like his friend groups because the librarians didn't really know how to reach them, right? They were in that space, but they, and then I also need to say that the librarians were also trying to get them to always put their phones away too, right? And to like engage in like the traditional books and like, hey, put that away. That's not reading. That's not, and so she was like diminishing like a lot of what these kids were doing. And I'm like, and I wanted to say, I didn't want to like, you know, because my kids were there just participating. I wanted to be a parent. I didn't want to come in. I'm Kishon, I have a PhD. I know all that. I didn't want to do that either, right? But it led me know that it was important to establish this relationship, you know, with the librarians just so they can realize like the potential of them being able to utilize traditional like practices and to reach like young folks like Darius and his friends, right? And then, you know, so I think one of the things her initial like response was like, oh, well, should I find books that have like Fortnite things to them or something like, I'm like, sure. But there are some games, like how about having these kids make games? So Twine was the thing that I introduced her to him, like, okay, you want them to like develop literacy and like put words together.  And so these were like things that she really wasn't aware of, right?  Let's not diminish and devalue, you know, these, them with these games. Let's try to use this as a jumping off point to get them, to reach the point that you're trying to get them to do and like creating stories and writing stories.   And so it was just a way to get her, you know, like to just think differently, you know, like about what a text could be and how we can read different texts. And I think that was, you know, you know, to your point, I think that was like a, like an important intervention just to make sure that if I'm not there, like I can't be at every library, you know, making sure, you know, like, like she recognizes that, but I just wanna, you know, I think it's been trying to like develop like, you know, have that relationship, you know, with some of the, the, the libraries, especially the ones on the South side and West side of Chicago. Yeah, there are other questions, my bad. Did they answer your question, Nick? No, I just started talking. Did I answer your question? Sorry. Yeah, he said, great to hear. Maybe I'll take the, I'll read the one from the Q and A from one of the attendees. So this is from Thea Silviera. Dr. Gray, thank you so much for this presentation. How do you think that black women journalists and communicators could collaborate to in this process for more positive narratives in the media and digital spaces? And then virtual hugs from Brazil, they add. Oh, yes, yes, yes, yes. That's a fantastic question. Thank you for asking that. I had, I don't know. I don't quite know how to do that, right? I'm gonna talk about a recent conversation that I had.  And you know, I think that, that a lot of journalists come into projects with an assumption about things already, right? So this particular journalist had an idea about something, they wanted me to contribute to this project in a particular way, but they didn't take gaming seriously, right?  And so the relationship didn't start on equal footing, right? There was not like an equitable like relationship where she's like, you have something to offer, I wanna hear what it is. She came at it from like, I have this particular project, I have this story I gotta do. Can you help me reach my end goal, right? And so, and that, that was a problem, right?  And so she's trying to find bits and pieces for me to fit into this narrative that she's like created already. So I think that we have to like take a step back. That's not the first place that we need to start where you have this idea and then you find people to fill that in. I think the relationships have to be part of like the foundation and what we build, you know, these projects around. There's another example. Hopefully, you know, I'm gonna say this. You know, there's been a story that folks from ABC and Good Morning America have been trying to do for like a long time. So I've been in communication with this lovely person. She's a lovely human, right? So I've been in communication with her for about six years trying to get things off the ground. And so just last week, she was like, okay, the producers are finally interested in doing this like this expose on like racing gaming, right?   Like the thing where we like experience, you know, black people's pain, right? Now, six years ago, seven years ago, maybe I would have been like, okay, sure, let's do that, but for me, that story's old. That story's gone because we know racism exists in these games already, right?  They couldn't even think intersectionally about how much more awful like the space could be for women of color in particular, right? So there have been like a lot of misses and then like in this moment of Black Ops Matter, they're like, oh, here we are, let's try to like make sense of like the racism in the space.  They're having basic conversations that we had decades ago already, right? We're beyond that. And for me, I was trying to tell her, like, you know, a place that might be more generative to have this conversation is to see how the technologies have advanced in a way to protect people from the harassment that they've experienced in the space. Like I can curate my space. I can curate my stream so that there's a bot that will, you know, whip out all of the instances of racism and sexism, I can protect my space. That's a cool story. Like what are the things that people can do to like protect themselves? The fact that I might be called the inward or be asked to make a sandwich, like that, don't nobody wanna do that no more. So again, to get back to your question about how there has to be like a relationship. And I think it's far too often, like I said, a lot of journalists are just coming at it with a particular, they have a question that they wanna answer too. We all have questions that we wanna answer, right? But I think those questions need to be generated in a more collaborative way, right? Just like for me doing like a research project, I never go into a research project with like research questions again, especially if they involve human others. Like if they involve people, I need those people on the other end. I wanna tell them, hey, I'm interested in this. What do you think about that? What have you, like, so in a more of like, more of an exploratory kind of way, because the minute that I create a research question, I'm establishing a bias. I am coming at it already from like a particular place where I think something in the space and I'm asking the question to try to get me to like that endpoint. Does that make sense? I did a lot of talking in there. No, it's a great, yeah. Well, the story you're suggesting, journalists tell, it's a more nuanced, right? And it also gives agency, if agency looks different and yeah. All right, Kelly, Kelly Wagman had her hand up. Hi, thank you so much. I was wondering, it's clearly really, really important, this local, like very localized work that you're doing. And I'm kind of curious how you connect with people on a kind of broader scale who are doing similar work in their local communities, kind of like what kinds of tools do you use to connect and do you feel like you have a kind of broader support community and how does that play into then the local work? That's a great question. I'll think about how to respond to that. So I don't go into these projects with assumptions already in mind, right? The first thing I do is just develop relationships. So people who play games are important to me. And so I try to go to where they are. Of course, young folk are important to me and supporting young folks, and especially like black and brown young folks, underrepresented youth, they're very important to me. So that's why, so whenever I was working like in Kentucky, I just went to where these young folks were, making connections. So every summer, I had a Latino leadership camp like through my lab where, migrant farm workers, children who, the young folks who were working, brown youth who were, whose parents were working on like farms in Eastern Kentucky, you know, what come and we would just, I would just provide them with like a space, right? And I just wanted them to, and I think the relationships then informed in the projects that come out of it, right? And that's like the same thing that I did like on the South side. It was an accidental project, you know? Because I'm just, I'm watching and I guess like, as Tiel said, the ethnographer in is like, we're always like watching and observing and then just allowing cultures and people to just like be and exist. And then we just figure out ways to, to try to leverage those like relationships, sure for our own research, but also how we can like just make those things like legible to other people. So while this is, yes, like a very localized like, project, I immediately saw the connections from the things that I was doing while I was in Kentucky, you know, to the things that I was doing when I was in Arizona and all those, I'm still asking the same kinds of questions. How are these folks utilizing like technologies like around them to support and sustain their communities? And what does that look like? You know, I think that question has been able to travel with me like in all these spaces.  And I think that's the thing that, you know, whatever I'm trying to get money to support these projects was TL was like, you don't need money. Just do what you want. You don't need money. You know, she's big about that, right? I want money. I just want money to give these folks. I want to give them all these money. I want to take white folks money. That's what I want to do. But I think, you know, it's, it's, it's really important that, you know, like when folks ask me to like scale up like a project and how can we like make this, you know, transportable across different spaces. If I create like a, like a thing, can we also implement this thing like here? And, and I think that, you know, the ethnographer in me also wants to just recognize that there is something special to like localize spaces, like some, like the dynamic that's there, you know, in that neighborhood in Guadalupe, like outside of like Phoenix is different from the dynamics, you know, in Inglewood and South side of Chicago.  And I think it's the, and it's, it's important that we just make sure that we approach these projects and allow the uniqueness and of these spaces to stay distinct and to be distinct. I think that's part of like, you know, when I talk a lot about like black cyber feminism, which is like another project, like that distinctness of like communities is like very important. You know, I know a lot of folks want to generalize and say, hey, this can go here, but I like, it's okay, you know, to have like some of that distinctness, right? Hopefully that answered your question. I'm sure it didn't.  Somebody else, the question, I'll read it. There's been a lot of thank you comments for the talk, but I want to read Lisa Parks, the one she just left. So it's more comment. While people think of questions if they want to get in here. Thanks to Shona, this is from Lisa Parks. I appreciate how your analysis highlights the unequal digital infrastructure across different communities, but at the same time emphasizes the agency, innovation, resourcefulness, creativity of Black youth. Hoping we get their expertise to challenge the biases and blind spots of digital elites. Your work serves as a crucial bridge here. Thanks so much and keep up the amazing work. Thank you, Lisa. Just didn't want that to get lost in the trouble there. Absolutely, absolutely. Other questions? It looks like Amber, Amber, our race. Yeah. Go ahead and jump on it. Yeah. Hi, I was wondering in your perspective how can storytellers and cultural institution in general can co-create with their own communities in order to foster a dialogue about their public spaces and improvement? I'm glad you asked that question. I realized as I was reading this talk that I failed to, like the importance of Tasty Diamond like from our research, she's a streamer and she considers herself like a digital storyteller using streaming technologies. And I think it's just so beautiful how she has adamant about the kinds of stories that she's telling on these streams, right? So I know from the amazing work of T.L. Taylor, we've got a lot of work from Mia Consalvo. We've got a lot of folks who are focusing on streaming. And the scholarship that we've gotten from a lot of these places illustrate that a lot of the desires of streamers are to build large platforms and to get followers and to like monetize platforms. Like there's that capitalist desire for that, right? And I think that's very important and that's very powerful.  And they realized, they just said, well, we're just gonna talk about this black content. If people join us, they join us. And if they don't, then they don't. One of the beautiful things that they do is like, whenever like a game is released, like a cinematic trailer or something, they immediately like connect, you know, what they're seeing on the screen to actual history and actual like traditional ways of like engaging like with content. So for instance, I'm thinking about the example. Do you remember the image that I had?  That screen, I had that beautiful dark skin woman who was like yelling and screaming, like we could fill her pain in that, right? Well, that was part of the cinematic trailer for Assassin's Creed. Now, Assassin's Creed, Freedom Cry, the downloadable content, not like the main game, but it was Freedom Cry, where we follow Attawale. Attawale used the pirate and he happened upon, he was, the story from the cinematic trailer is different from the game content, but the cinematic trailer shows him as a boy, sure from his mom and sold into slavery at like a young age. And so he was free, he freed himself from slavery and he started to be like a pirate on the high seas, but he happened upon, you know, this small community like in Haiti, where he saw the institution of slavery that was still thriving, right?  And he basically took it upon himself to destroy and dismantle. He killed a lot of white folks, right? He destroyed the institution of slavery. And it was like, you know, like the precursor, like the Haitian Revolution, right? You know, it kind of gave us like some of that background, but I think that it's really important how, you know, Tacey Diamond in particular, like utilize like her stream and connected to other black women to like tell these stories.   So just using that game and that cinematic trailer, you know, she talked about, you know, different revolutions. She talked about like Nat Turner. She talked about like the different rebellions. She talked about Harper's Ferry. You know, we learned so much just from her stream because she said, most of y'all are not guaranteed to take no African-American experience class in college. So I'm gonna do that for you. So I think that was a beautiful way that she was creating like this, this, these like co-creating like that, that knowledge like with her and then the folks, some of us who were coming into the stream, you know, we were adding the things that we knew and it really created, you know, just these beautiful spaces of just like exploring, you know, like black history through gaming and you know, like it all, like it was the jumpstart was that cinematic trailer where it was like, okay, you're not just gonna plop down this slave narrative and not give us any more context or background, right? We're gonna make sure to like fill in those blanks and fill in those holes and let you know that the lasting legacies of like slavery destroyed black families and communities. So we wanna make sure just to bring that back. So I think streaming is like really like the place where you can see like a lot of this beautiful, you know, digital storytelling and the co-creating of like knowledge and telling these localized stories. I think, you know, those are really beautiful spaces to go see. It's interesting, I just recently wrote a piece with my graduate student, Brian Chan, shout out to Brian, I'm not sure if he's in this space or not, but we were looking at like the different pathways. How like black men, like for instance, they, a lot of like the most popular black men who are streamers, they have applied that traditional like narrative to their streams. They wanna build huge platforms, they want a lot of followers, they do a lot of the performative kind of over the top kind of thing, hit that like button, you know, or like all that kind of stuff. They do like a lot of that performative kind of thing, like with their streams. And I think some of them recognized that they were trying to apply this template, but because of the bodies that they're in, they would never be able to reach that potential of like their white male counterparts, right? And I think that that hit a lot of them hard, right?   You know, like over time, like people were like expecting them to continue like engaging like in this, in this kind of practice. Like for instance, there's one streamer who he was just like talking regular, he didn't have a lot of high energy. He didn't, and then people were like, like you're not funny anymore. You're not engaging anymore. And he was like, wait a minute, well, why are you here? He's there. And he realized that he's just entertaining these people. So that kind of hit him hard, like in a way where he's like, you know, these people aren't here for me. You know, it's like the entertainment value that is very important. There was also another streamer in particular. This black, this black man, he would mask his voice when he would go into these spaces like to talk. So he had a kind of like a chipmunk kind of like theme going on like in his space. And he's funny. He's over the top. He had never, in his early streams, he never showed his face, but there was one stream where he did show his face.  Like that's like one of the quotes. Like he copied, he screen captured that. And he has, you know, he, he, it hit him hard because he was like, I'm just being like a funny guy trying to engage in folks, trying to make a few dollars in this space too. And then, but I can't do that because you automatically think that there's something different about me and my content because I'm black. Like that, that didn't sit well with him either. So it's really interesting how like, you know, like, you know, we are, I don't know how, how we look at like waves of streaming now. Are we in the second wave? Or I don't know what this is to you. I'll leave to you to like help us think about things like that.   I'm like, you don't want to be ninja. Don't be ninja. Be yourself. Like that, don't be ninja. Don't be ninja. I want, I thought I saw Thomas's hand, but now it's gone to musted. Was there a glitch or you? I think you answered it, but I was interested in, in, so you, you talk about your work being kind of like in the middle of activism and of course research. And I'm interested if you partner with any resistance in either of both spaces, you know? Yeah, absolutely. I think a lot of folks, they don't, they don't set out with the project of resistance, right?  You know, they were like accidental activists, right? You know, they didn't intend, they were just saying, hey, we need to show up, we need to do something. Even Khalif, you know, Khalif Adams, you know, didn't set out saying, hey, I'm an activist like in the space. You know, they were just like, hey, we've got these platforms, we got to do something. We just want to like raise like awareness. But I think that's how maybe like a lot of even like activism like even happens, right? You just happen to be at a particular space at a particular time. You know, just think about like the power, for instance, that social media have like in the moments in the death after like Mike Brown, right? A lot of these people just had phones, they were able to like record and then they were like, okay, people are watching us, we'll give you the information, we'll give you the story.  And so I think that there's, although, you know, of course, and there is, you know, a lot of actual like structural actual like intentional work that's behind activism too. But I think there are a lot of folks, you know, who are just, who just happen to find themselves like so moved by something and so immersed in something. They're like, you know, I got to do something. You know, we can't just sit by, we can't just do these.   I was, yeah, like 10 years ago, over 10 years ago. What year is it, 2020? My goodness. Well, like 2008, 2009, we were, me and the friends that I was with, like, we were trying to like boycott, it was one of the Laura Croft games. We were boycott, I can't remember what year it was. Oh, it's so much time's escaping me now. But if you all remember like the cinematic trailer around one of the Laura Croft games, it was like alluding to her possibly being raped in the game, right? And we were just not okay with that framing. And although, you know, it was, we didn't generate a critical mass.  We're not gonna support it right now. We were doing the most, right? But, and I think like a lot of them from that group, you know, recognize like, hey, even though we don't have the bodies or the numbers, you know, we can still do this work like in other ways, right?   We have time for two more, three more questions. From attendees, you can throw something in Q and A. Bye, Andrew. Maybe in just, oh, good. Amber, yeah, go ahead. Well, if anyone, if no one wants to ask. I was wondering, like you already mentioned that in each community is different and you don't want to generalize, right? But I was wondering if like what difference did you find in like rural areas and like cities and how like if they use different, like the technologies they use in different ways to approach and also like how different it is from the U.S. to Brazil, for instance. Yeah. But they're also working. Yeah. Let me start with the second part of your question. I'm especially since you invoke Brazil, there's a community of Black men that I've been following for probably since like 2007.  And in that group, they came to find out later that a lot of them were from different parts of the world, right?  Now this, it was a very contentious group of folks, right? Now these are all Black men.   And then they, you know, like the conversations were very contentious.  And then there was even like conversations around, like, you know, like accents, like for the men and the British men.  They were like poking fun at one another.  And then like, I think there was a lot of like police violence that, you know, made it to like, it made it to our media, like in the United States where we're just seeing. And then it was, it was a comment that somebody said, they said, well, I guess the ghetto looks the same everywhere. That was like one of the comments that one of them made, where they recognized that they are dealing with like similar experiences, just, you know, across the board and that what unifies them was the blackness, their black masculinity, you know, kind of like unified, like a lot of their experiences. So while there were, you know, of course, distinct oppressions and distinct things that are happening, you know, they just realized like the similarities, like among all of them, right? So, you know, I think there will be like, like the questions that I would then ask, you know, some of the men like in Brazil was different than, you know, what I asked, like the men, the brown and black men, like in Puerto Rico, right?  They were different, but they get us to like similar ends and like, you know, similar, the end, the end is similar, right? It's just the pathway to get there. Now, there, it was very challenging. The work in Eastern Kentucky was very challenging.  Can they come to Richmond, you know, during the summer, you know, for a couple of days and like stay in residence in the dorms.  So I think they were like a lot of racism, you know? Challenging is a nice way to put it. That's right, Kayla. You remember these stories? And there were different conversations that were had, right? But I think that it was all, it was important because I knew how to use like the language to talk about like their class oppression. That was something that the families understood that they knew and that it allowed me to start making like the connections between like class oppression and like racial oppression and like talk about like the degrees of whiteness. And, you know, I wasn't able to like go as far as I wanted to like with some of those conversations, but that was also like the moment where I incorporated families and a lot more because I think the work needed to be done with their families around talking about conversations with like race. So, but I did, I wasn't able to do like as much as I wanted to. I didn't have funding. I need money to be able to do these things. I didn't have like, you know, a lot of the funding and like the money, like to do a lot of this work. But I think like a lot of these kids, like I had to tell some of the kids like don't call me colored, okay? You don't have to come, please don't call me colored, honey.  But that didn't stop like the work.  So that didn't live in me. I just realized that they never had like the pathways to like understand, you know? Like all the, they may be poor, but there's like some white privilege here, you know? There's, so there was, there was a lot of work, you know, that I needed to do there. Yeah. I don't know how else to say that. I haven't really like unpacked those experiences in a way that I need to. That's a future book, right? That's a full professor book. It was wild. I like how you're giving me a hard time about money. I want you to have all the money, trust me, trust me. All right, we're almost approaching 6.30. I don't actually know what our formal end time is, but are there any other questions? Any, I'm just, KC, I'm scanning multiple monitors and windows are currently, I'm here, I haven't gone through the chat at all. Feel free to look. And then I think Emily is raising, I love it. It was like actual physical hand raised. Yeah, go ahead, Emily. I'm just wondering if you can, if you've noticed the people you sort of observed talking about, not just sort of piecing together different ways of engaging in these gaming communities, but maintaining their infrastructural sort of connection, like talking about different, like mapping out different places to find Wi-Fi or different places in certain digital devices, like how did they think about that if they did? Absolutely. The only reason why I have those maps is because I really just couldn't believe that there really was no access, right? And it's not that I didn't believe the kids. I think it was just one of those moments. I'm like, we're in the city of Chicago. Like, I don't care that this is the South side, this is Chicago, surely you have Wi-Fi, surely you have these things, surely there are Pokey Ghost stops. But I think that was my naivety.  And, you know, I'm from the South. We have different kind of racism, right?  They just don't want to work with you. But like in the North, they don't mind working with you. They don't want to live next to you. So I think that's one of the things, you know, I kind of got a sense of this like in my time in Boston, realizing like, we're seeing real racial, like segregation, residential like segregation. And also like, so just being here, I'm just like, and in my mind, I'm like, well, hey kids, let's go up to Millennial Park. Let's go up here and like just play like Pokemon Go. Let's just do it. And then just seeing, oh gosh, just seeing security officers whose job it was to keep them out of that space. That was kind of hard for me to contend with, right? Because I'm like, here we are. We're not doing anything. We're playing a gang. We're playing Pokemon Go.  And so this was like in the moments, this was like brand new to me too, where I was just like, wow, like these realities are still ever present, like even in this space. So I think that I'm trying to think about making sure that like I answer your question. But I think that the realities like just hit me that I have to make sure. And again, it was an accidental project. We were just having fun. I'm like, this is giving like the youth like something to do. But it really made me realize that there was like a lot of like background that I needed to do before I even entered in a project. Like I tried to do some, but I never want to do too much where I'm coming at it with like all these biases and all these like assumptions, right? And so I just try to keep, just to try to keep that balance of, and also, you know, me being in this body, being an academic researcher, trying to like approach things like an objective ways between, you know, that's not like not true at all. Like I try to just strike that balance. I hope I've forgotten like your question trying to think about, you know, just like that reality too. So hopefully I answered that. I can't even remember what your question was, Emily. I'm so sorry. So I was really just thinking about in the moment where the security guard just basically said, no, these black kids can't be here and they have to go. Like they kicked us out. They kicked us out. Hell, even in the place where I live right now, they were trying to kick me out of like my own house because we don't live on the south side. We live on campus, right?  And because we were here after hours, it really felt like like some downtown, like almost, whereas like, you know, we're not welcome here.  And I tell him like, no, you're not going to go get that pizza from outside at eight o'clock at night.  So, you know, I have to like contend like with those realities as well. I'm sorry, Emily, did I answer your question? I think I can't tell if the Emily, yeah, it looks like she's saying the same thing. Oh, okay, okay, all right, okay. Well, you've given us just a heroic amount of time and just incredible things to think about and the answers to the question. So, thanks so much, Kishona. I would give you a round of applause. Yay. Yeah, it's been great having you here to kick us off on a terrific new year series. I was just pulling up, Andrew put a link to the ARC upcoming events and there's two different things happening next Thursday, another of the sessions on Deep Fakes and then our colloquium is Justin Reich speaking on failure to disrupt why technology alone can't transform education. So, I think we have another really good kind of critical intervention conversation ahead. So, thanks again, Kishona. I'll kick it back to Scott if you, I don't know if you have any other things you want to say to wrap up. No, I mean, other than just how delighted I am pleased and how great your talk was. And just a word of housekeeping folks, keep an eye out. Some of these talks will be live like this one. Some will be prerecorded. If they're prerecorded, they'll be available out a week before. You'll need to do, you'll need to keep an eye out to see which is which. If they're prerecorded, then I'll just be live chat at this time of the evening. But in any case, again, thanks everyone for showing up for a great start for this program. Bye, Freddie. Take care, bye, all.


Hi, this is Sergeant Nelda Banuelos with the California Highway Patrol, reminding the motoring public that some traffic signal lights are still inoperable. Please drive with caution.


And I was wondering, so you are envisioning a future where there will be many different currencies competing within each other, each trying to target a specific need of a segment of the market, for instance. And I guess that those currencies, those cryptocurrency currencies, will be having some kind, some sort of monetary policy linked inside the protocol, right? So how do you envision the link between the monetary policy of these protocols and the needs of people? Yeah. Well, that is a really, really interesting question. I think monetary policy is one of those genetic traits that really, really focuses the environment in which a currency or token can compete. So, you know, I'll take a slight twist on this, because a lot of people ask me this question, does Ethereum compete against Bitcoin? And I think not. And I think one of the reasons not is because each one has traits that are focused on very specific things. Bitcoin has a monetary policy trait that makes it more suited towards fitting into a niche of reserve currency, global trading standard, point of reference for medium of exchange, and things like that. Ethereum, obviously, is much more focused on maintaining state within contracts in order to be able to enable smart contracts. And those are differences as much as the difference between a shark that has skin that allows it to glide through the water faster than any other fish, and a human that has bipedalism two feet that allow it to walk upright. And to say, you know, do we compete against sharks? Well, if I go into the ocean, I certainly might compete against the shark, and I will lose. And if I took a shark into a boxing ring on land, I would win. But our domains are entirely separate. Our traits, the very things that make us top successful predators or competing species within one environment, automatically select us out of all of the other environments in which we could fit. There are no universally successful species. Species are specialists. And so, by definition, monetary policy is one of the critical characteristics that determines where you fit as a niche. It's what defines Bitcoin. Bitcoin is a brand, but what Bitcoin is fundamentally is a decentralized, limited issuance system. 21 million coins. If it's not 21 million coins, it's not Bitcoin. You know, you could say that's part of its birth certificate. That is what defines it. Many of the other things can change, but not that. And Ethereum is smart contracts, and many other things can change, including its monetary policy, but not that. So, yes, I think it's really important to look at monetary policy as one of the characteristics, but also the degree of decentralization, the flexibility of the scripting language, but also the security and conservatism of the scripting language, in order to decide where do you think this fits. And here's another piece of news. Where you think this fits isn't where it's going to fit. Because no matter what you do, as someone who's involved in this space, you don't define the future... or the potential evolution of this thing. It's moving. Society is moving at the same time, and everything is changing around it. It will fit where it fits. And we have yet to discover exactly where that will be. And part of the big debate we're having in Bitcoin and in other places is, where exactly does it fit? And you can express an opinion, but you cannot direct, at least in a predictable fashion, where it's going to fit.


Well, BSU football is back on the road this Saturday. Traveling the one in five Minot State, also looking to extend their winning streak to four. And pick up the second road win of the year offensively. It all starts with that run game and defense. Well, they just keep frustrating opponents. I love it on defense when we are able to put the ball back in our offensive hand. We have so many weapons over on the offensive side of the ball that it's hard not to score if we give them chances. So that's all we're trying to do on defense, honestly, is just give our offense some chances and force some turnovers when we can. Well, we try to establish a run. First of all, it starts with the offensive line. When those guys get the push, we get the host to run through and keep this change moving. When it's contagious, once you get the taste of it, you want to continue that. So it's been a great week of practice. And I think leading back, getting the homecoming win of you even before that, it just is fun. And we played really well at home. So hopefully we can continue doing that on the road this weekend at Minot State. Well, Tahee was asked today about the famous PA. And now instead of calling him Tahee, what is it again? It's Tahee Nomein, the freight train, right? Right, right, yeah, he got it. Yeah, he likes that, he likes that. Okay, that's good to hear. Good to hear. If you've enjoyed this segment of Lakeland News, please consider making a tax-deductible contribution to Lakeland Public Television.