Hello everybody, if it's Wednesday, it's Warhammer and that must mean it's time for another episode of Warhammer Weekly. Joining me as always is my constant co-host. He's never missed an episode except for all of those episodes. It's Tom. What's up, buddy? How you doing? What episodes? Hello friends. Right. Well, it's just no no idea what I'm talking about. Yes. I got it. I got it. As usual, we are late because Tom is on the show again. He's back and co-hosting so hence now we're late again. That's not my fault. Oh, no, I'm not taking the fall for this one. No, we were just talking and got talking. That's all of this. Also joining us, very happy to have him back on the show. David Griffin, TO of NashCon and the sexiest man in American Warhammer. What's going on, David? How you doing? I'm doing alright. Thanks. Love that intro. Though I do, after having met a few people at NashCon, I think I think I might be getting a little long in the tooth. I think I'm getting phased out. It's might be time to retire you. You're the liberators of Sexy Warhammer. I got some new vindictors rolling out somewhere. I'm the poor night-questor. They're just putting out the pasture. Sure, absolutely. But night-per-albore. That was my next one. Tom, we'll come back to that one. We'll get to it because we're talking Stormcast 2021 tonight. I am very excited. I'm in the middle of building a Stormcast army. And so this is like I'm in for both of these books because I love both of these armies so much. We had a huge lengthy discussion over which book to do first and end up being Stormcast. So so stay tuned for that. We're gonna go through the book in detail. So much detail. Eye-bleeding detail. And somehow keep the show to three to three and a half hours at most. Tom, take us to the news. Rumor engine? Yes, there is a rumor engine up. What kind of elf is this, Tom? It looks like... It is definitely an elf. It is definitely an elf. Like that hilt with like the lion mouths on it. I think that this is... I want it to be a Tyrion elf. But it's not. It's like an underworld's elf. Correct. David, what do you think? He's muted. Yeah, I was trying to find the stream because I don't actually know what you're talking about. So maybe come back to me. That's fine. No issue. It is yes, it is it is clearly an elf pony tail. You can see like the elf ear, the elf sword, the elf things. There's elf things. I agree. It is a war cry or underworld or something elf, which is cool. As we'll talk about in another in a news item here in a moment, we are expecting to see some exciting new war cry stuff in about two days. So maybe it's part of that. Yeah. Go ahead, David. Oh, yeah, that's just having now getting a chance to look at it and a little behind. Yeah, I agree. I think I think it's insane some war cry stuff would be really interesting. I think that's a really good way of getting some alternate sculpts and some different styles of units that we don't, you know, have ready potentially. Yeah, whether you actually play a war cry or not, I think it's always great to have alternate builds. Agreed. And here's what I'll say. Tom, you could be right with despite yourself. What I mean by that is it could be a tyrannic elf. Because you're saying if we got the warband first before we got the actual army. Yeah. The first place we could see, in fact, I would go so far as to say that the first place we will see tyrannic elves, Tyrion-specific elves, other than the ones we've already seen already. Like, there are people in Luminath right now that are like the guy on the pony, the weird antelope pony is like the second in command of Tyrion's army. To Tyrion's army, yeah. So, but like the first tyrannic guy we'll see that is tyrannic itself is going to be in war cry or underworld or something like that. That's how they'll put it out. That's how they'll give us a little taste. Just give it a little bit in there. Just get you going. Revved up, ready to run. Maybe. I mean, I think it'll like I think we'll see glimpses of them for sure in some of those spaces. Sure. We've got lots of calls of people wanting it to be dark elf stuff, so I can see, you know, that'd be nice. I just wouldn't see the lion heads being on the dark elf thing. That's the problem. Right. I don't think I don't think that Malerion uses lion insignias. I am excited for whatever he ends up being though. All right, what's our next thing it is? We have an announcement show this weekend. We do. It's at GenCon. They just like randomly threw this out there that they're now going to do a reveal show at GenCon. So are you going to be there? I am. Yeah, I'll be there. I went and bought my little ticket. It's like two dollars for effort, which is hilarious, like, okay. Because I was already going to be at GenCon. I leave tomorrow morning, so Okay, like I'll go to your show afterwards. No, because there's no AOS stuff in it. We already know there's no AOS stuff. What will be there that we know there's underworld stuff and war cry stuff. So there's there's like, you know, Sigmar adjacent things, but no AOS proper. So yeah, but I'll check it out and be there. Be fun. So that will be fun. We obviously I'm bearing the lead here. So we got an app. We did get an app. Yeah. The new app launch today. You sound all sad about it. It wouldn't let me log in. I was having log in issues. Oh, why? Like, do you have a forge rolled account?  I had to go fix my fourth world account. Like I do and it wouldn't take my stuff. And so like, I need to go back in and it's like, sorry, server's busy. But I'm just like, I don't have time for this. Gotcha. For me, I did I got a little dodgy with the forge world thing, because I had to tie all those accounts together. But then once that was done, I logged in and it was easy. And it was actually pretty nice. David, what did you think? Yeah, it's fine. I I embarrassingly had to spend a lot of my morning updating my phone because I don't have the most recent version of iOS on my phone. And so I had to spend forever offloading my phone so I could download the update so that I could download the app that I thought was definitely a beta. Definitely. Yeah, yeah. I mean, I think it's fine. I think it's going to do it. It's good. It's going to have to do a lot to convert me over from my Lord and Savior, War Scroll Builder. Nothing is going to do that. Nothing is going to do that. Look, I'm going to give you the straight story here. I loaded it up and I was like, OK, let's see how this works. I looked at all the rules like for the armies. And now they did it, which it was cool. It has all the old books in it and all the old rules for all the old books. You can look at all the old artifact, like everything that hasn't isn't the two new books that are being published here that are coming out this weekend, right? Everything. OK.  It's got the FAQs in there. Great. And I was able to navigate that stuff pretty easy. I will admit, I kind of liked the old scroll through the pictures thing better than the new way of going down. But I get why they built it like that. It's hard. It's a lot of information. I get it. It's tricky, you know, and this let them nest more information underneath. So whatever. The filtering is pretty good. I wasn't sad about that. To me, it's like the worst girl part of it that will probably remain free was like a solid B plus. OK. The army builder part of it that I will never use anyways and do not care, even in the slightest about was like a good C, maybe C plus, a lot of little issues with it, a lot of like you can't add this thing properly. And this doesn't recognize this is about a line and all of that. I mean, look, I am a diehard. I'm a Tony P. Stan will be forever. You know, whatever that man needs, he's got from me in a heartbeat because. War Scroll Builder is our one true Lord and savior. All praise be War Scroll Builder. But I don't understand why they're still making an army building tool in the app. I don't like I have a higher. I can't add work lightning vortex to my KO army in the app. But I can't work for a builder. There's a lot. There's a lot of no hit. No, it's been modeled. It exists now. It's a thing. Yeah, I think I think that's just whoever designed the app, taking a strong hand and trying to do what's best for the universe. But anyways, like, you know, like I didn't have it crash at all. It worked fine for me. I played around in it for like 30 minutes and it was it was fine. I could look at the scrolls. I could look at the rules. I was like, OK. Neat. You know, like that's fine. I don't use the army building. So I don't have a good review other than to say I used it for a lot of basics. It's fine. But clearly, there's a lot of bugs still in the army building site. So for a beta, I average those two scores out to a B. You get a B. It's like not bad. B for beta. So it was OK. Almost failing in graduate school. Yeah, I mean, OK, that that just is a creep of expectations. But anyways, it was it was a solid B.  So that's it. It could have been better. Yeah, also that that also that. But yeah, was it good? Sure. It was OK to good room for improvement. But it's not starting off with like terribly right. I didn't immediately.  Or maybe I just want to be like, God, why? You know, James says, will the war scrolls stay free? The war scrolls for the new SE aren't on the website. Assumingly, yes. Now, they've been kind of cagey about this. So they didn't put up the war scrolls on the website with the preorder. I don't know if they're going to put them up when they go live and launch. Maybe that's what they'll do with the download section. Maybe they'll just cut the download section completely and have you go only to the app. I don't know. I hope they keep the the. I hope they keep the stuff on the website. I like that it's on the website. I like that the scrolls are there. But yeah, everything they've said in the marketing seems to be basically saying that the scrolls are going to stay free, that the basic rules of the basic scrolls of the game stay free, which, by the way, would be in line with them giving away the core rules for free, which they also did. Right. You can also just get the core rules for AOS free. It would be weird for them to give away the core rules and not have scrolls for free. Because then you'd be like, wait, what? What do I do with this? How do I play this game? Right. So either you're either you're trying to get people to look at your stuff or not. So I assume the scrolls will stay free and the army builder will get tied to your Warhammer Plus account. So, you know, that that would be that seems to be what they're saying, if you like read between the lines. But boy, oh, boy, it'd be nice if they just came out and were clear with it. Wouldn't that be great? Just be clear with it, guys. Tell us what the plan is here. Can't imagine. So whatever. But anyways, yeah. So the app, B, keep working. You'll get there. Green with that. Yeah, that's that's that's all I have to say. You've done better.  It's fine. You've done better and worse. Yeah. Right. Right. Yeah. And then finally, we have the next round of the work and stuff going up on pre-order. Yes. So, man, that vulture. He's real good. I have a question for you, Tom. You know what that question is? Mm hmm. Where are my dragons, Tom? Where are my dragons? OK, I want to know. And very bad TV shows. I need the I like this. I'm trying to get this army done for the first week in November. These guys take forever to paint. Just put me behind the eight ball here. They are just really going to try to kill me. Yeah, you have like eight weeks. Not even though I have like seven now, maybe eight. Don't say that because that means that I'm way behind on my army. Yeah, we have a seven week, Tom. So there you go. That's that makes me a little bit more anxious than I should be. OK, any models I'd like for habit? One, one, how are we coming up? Awesome, I didn't know you were coming up, man. Fantastic. Oh, it's going to be this is going to be a banger. Oh, I'm so excited. Yeah, me and Picasso are going to come up. Yeah. Yes. Yes. Oh, yeah. That's going to be great. Oh, my God. Still settling out exactly what the arm is going to be. But I think probably cities in Stormcast. Nice. Cool. That's that's a good combo. Sounds familiar. Well, yeah, that's what we're doing. Well, I have a strong feeling you're going to be way more way more teared at that, like, told other than us. I'm just bringing what I've got. It's interesting. I would put that idea away. Yeah, I mean, like, because I'm just I'm like, this is about what what can I get painted at 13 hours of 12 hours of model? So, you know, we're on a long road here. We all know what Vince is taking. Yeah, Rackast Dragons.  And then I am going to take elves, all the elves. Well, like, so I my army, my army will literally look like it came out of eighth edition. High Elves is I am doing as I'm buying as few models as possible, kit bashing as much as I can and only bought like two boxes of models. Oh, which happened to be Seminoles. There you go. All the Seminoles. All right. Yeah, that everybody loves what we're playing, Chad. So let's keep going. What else we got? OK, that's it. I mean, there's a couple of small news items. The The Slaves of Darkness rewrite from the White Dwarf did leak by the by. Yep. So we saw that like Coltas became General Batterline as long as they can take marks, as well as the Dark of War Queen and the Ogreid Miramodon and stuff like that. So that was cool. They did not rewrite the marks rules. Much to all of our surprise. So the Zinch mark continues to be real good for reasons that none of us can fathom, but they decided to just keep those. That's good for you, Vince. Yeah, great. Absolutely. Yeah, Ogreid, Miramodon, Darkarth, War Queen and the Dark of Chieftain can all take a mark. And then if the Coltas is given a mark of Chaos Keyword, it has the battle battle line battlefield role as long as it matches the general. So there you go. They also got new battalions, which are. Both completely forgettable as we're seeing with most of these battalions that aren't giants. Apparently Giants got the old good ones. So good stuff. I mean, they needed it. They were really struggling in the current meta. So I was happy to you love to see it. That was pull them up. Yeah, exactly. I mean, they've needed a hand. And then, of course, they got in the ongoing train wreck of the biggest mistake GW's design team has ever made, which we will talk about more tonight. They got their own grand strategy and battle tactics, none of which are that good. So none of which you would probably take over the existing options. So there we go. Yeah, so happy to see that in the Tome Celestial. Very surprised they did not redo the marks. Only other news thing was they released the Total Warhammer three thing, which you don't often talk about, but somebody asked for the opinion, my opinion on it. I don't play video games. So I have no opinion on it. I don't care about Total Warhammer. I don't care about anything that's in this game at all. Cathay was never interesting. Not China isn't interesting. It's as uninteresting as not Germany and not England and not France and not Italy. They're all an interesting because they're all just not their version of the world thing. But it was very pretty. Art and the game designer certainly did an amazing job with the art. I think that whoever does the art direction for those games and the sort of modeling and that kind of stuff is top notch because they are those were gorgeous and stunning. And I loved their realization of the world. I thought it looked very beautiful. That is my opinion. Vince is being negative. It looked amazing and it made me want to play the game, even though I know the game is nothing like that. David, any thoughts on Total Warhammer? Yeah, I mean, I haven't played a Total War game myself. I did really like those types of games back in the day, but I haven't really just don't have time. The art looked really cool. I mean, it's compelling. It makes it makes me wish I could play those games, but. I haven't seems cool. Yeah, I got I got painting to do here, folks. OK, like, you know, I got I got painting. I don't have time to sit around here. So why aren't you painting? There we go. That's so for those that don't know, that's a video game reference. It is. Warhammer online to Warhammer online. Yes, you'd click. You'd click the one guy in the city and you'd go like white fighting. Yes, correct. All right. So anyway, so let's get on to our pick of the week. David, we'll start with you. Yeah, sure. So I've got two. One is going to be, you know, played. I messaged you on Twitter, but I don't know if you saw it. I got there, but they're already in the comments, my dog. Oh, perfect. Great. So I'll direct everybody to Vince's color theory videos. He's got a whole series where he goes through color, like one color in depth and then did another video where he goes on their color, et cetera, et cetera. I think it's a kind of background in my background in design. I went to school and learned about color theory in depth. And there's things that I learn something new every time I watch the videos. And I think it's really helpful for painting because it really teaches you to think differently about depth and ways to kind of alter color to bring, you know, more interest, visual interest to a piece. I think in particular, I use some of the some of that color theory work on the purples I'm doing on my Lumineath, kind of learning how to deepen shades using different colors to do different things. So cooler colors in the recess is warmer colors towards the highlights, all that kind of stuff, really interesting work, really, really enjoy it. And then the other one I have is the season of war bad reps. I think they are great for kind of learning the game, also kind of seeing competitive armies. They do a pretty good job of showcasing some of the more some of some popular armies and they look really great on the table. Their tables look gorgeous. So direct you to those. Nice. Nice. Well, I appreciate the shout out. Thank you. And I will second your season of war. Absolutely. It's great stuff. Both are already linked down in the description. Tom, what do you got for us, buddy? Yeah, Paul Conti, friend of the show, Radio Free Hammerhole, put up a video today on the new the new app and his kind of thoughts on it. And it's a nice 10 minute 10 minute dive into the new app. You heard us kind of talk about it. And I would encourage you all to go check out Paul's video. Nice. I agree. I watched that video before we did this today. And my picks, if you don't get enough Stormcast content in your ear holes from us tonight, while there are two, two, two additional videos, you can go watch people breaking down very different opinions, probably, than what we'll have. Well, at least one of them is. And but both bring their own nuance and charm to it. One being the honest wargamer in his review, which boils down to, I think, just by dragons and apparently nothing else in the book is worth anything. I kid you, Rob, I love you. But that is kind of his point. He and I have extra, like as I was watching the show, I was texting him and just being like, I could not disagree with you more. This I like this your your whole theme is wrong. You're wrong. I was like, we got to get a show going. So I got to get one here. I'm going on his show. We're going to we're going to debate this out. I love the man. It was great. It was a good show. And then at the same time, Face Hammer, did their detailed review today, which was also really good. So the Face Hammer crew there went through it and I thought gave some really nice appraisal of some units and of the various components talked about some neat strats and things like that.  OK, gentlemen, let's turn to hobby time. Uh, David, since the tournament, you've been able to work on anything. I know you've been super busy. You got any had any had any hobby time at all? Yeah, a little bit, a little bit here and there between real life stuff. I've been working on some blade lords for a minute. Some kind of cool stuff here.  So yeah, some kind of fun stuff. And I kind of came to a realization at some point during my. Painting that I was really I'd gotten where I was painting everything into like a competition level, high, high quality, really killing myself for no good reason.  I think it's just kind of as a fun palette cleanser to paint different stuff that isn't GW isn't going to a tournament. No one's going to see the people in my in my house.  So I've been spending a lot of time painting up some stuff for that. And yeah, that's that's about it. Aside from aside from a mountains of terrain for Nashcon that I'm surrounded by right now on all sides, I'm pretty hemmed in. But it was beautiful. The terrain came out so it was when I did my show. There is a lot of talk of the terrain on the aether gas. Because I had photos of setup and that all the train was front and center. They were marvelling on that dark Elf table on that first like table fourteen or whatever, the how big the one like house was in the corner. They're like, you can hide an ironclad behind that. And I was like, uh-huh. They're like, is that what you did? And I was like, nah, I just went first. Sure. Yeah, we were we were comparing the tallest pieces. And there there were some pretty pretty tall ones in there. I think, uh, in retrospect, some of the pieces were too big with the with the table size change. I think the table size change really kind of messed up how they get positioned. But, you know, whatever, it was all good. Honestly, I found it wonderful. And I mean, I was playing a shooting army, so I should go and be wanting flat open tables, right? Like, sensibly, that's sure. But there was a lot of big terrain on tables I was on. And it was great. It made you have to think more and like position carefully.  Like they did what terrain is supposed to do, which I like. Yeah, so shout out, of course, to crazy horses in the chat who was obviously your partner in crime, both at the tournament and also in the terrain making. So yeah, for sure.  Austin Fletcher was one of the guys who painted a bunch of stuff.  A man of culture and iron jaws player. Yes, absolutely. Of course. Yeah. Of course. And apparently someone who likes to win now in the new in new edition. Yeah, there you go. With the new iron jaws book. Yeah, save it for next week. But yes, it's a good day to be an iron jaws player. We did it again, boys. We did it again. Anyways, OK, so awesome. Great. Love it. Tom, you've been hobbying. I know. I have been. So I like, I realized a dream today. Like, like I have been conceptualizing this unit. Do I need to queue up? Lay Mizorab here? Or what? What are we doing? No, but can I do a screen share online? Is that possible? No, because it'll it'll get weird if you if you if you try to screen share. Like it like, OK, I'm not going to add another stream. I'll show you what it'll look like sometime offline. We can see if I can. That sounds great. But the appropriate thing to send to me pictures beforehand to think. Hey, I said I did. I sent it to the group chat. I sent as a group chat. No, so I I have long dreamed of remaking of kit bashing the maidens of the Everqueen. Do you remember those metal figures that were like really nice elves? Because there was the handmaiden that was done, but they never actually like had a unit. They just had a Euro edition, but sure. Right. But like they haven't had plastic. They never did plastics. They never did like an update of that model. Yeah, I still have them. Yeah. Yeah. So what I wanted to do was I wanted to kit bash a plastic version of those. Sure. And like I spent years dreaming about like what the combination of bits we're going to look like. And like I got them done. That's right, folks, they are done. And so I am so happy with these girls. You can't see them. And that's fine. Just tweet out the picture, Tom. Tweet out your picture. Yeah, I will. I'll tweet out the picture and the shields aren't on there. But like I have just the exact number. Do you remember like years ago when I was trying to gather shields? Like a certain Hile shield, which is like the heart that I've learned. Right. Exactly. It was for this unit. And so finally, like this project that I'm doing for City, for Havoc, was a perfect excuse for me to kit bash to create this unit that I've been like gathering bits for and doing all the things for. And like I went in and like carved, you like used like carved the chess pieces from Sisters of Avalon to fit the molding of the cloaks of the Phoenix Guard and then went into the Phoenix Guard because of the way that the cloaks clip on to the chess pieces. I had to cut those pieces off of the cloaks, shave the backs, attach them to the edges and then lay overlay the Sisters of Avalon chess pieces. Sure. Like I had to build arms for these spears. And the spears aren't just normal spears. They're the three pronged spears that you only got in like a handful of kits that are very like the the rarer elf spears. So like they like the Dragon Lord had one and then the like the chariot had one, you know, like. So I had to gather all those for the unit and like this is like collecting Japanese full art. Yes. Cars, isn't it, Tom? That's what you're on about in Magic. Like it like it but but it's done and I have a 10 man unit. I will never like the cost to make another 10 of these girls would be like three hundred dollars because of the cost of bits now. But I have a 10 man unit and they are beautiful. And so I'll tweet out a photo and then I started building my sentinels.  Very nice. Well, congratulations, Tom. I'm glad that you're welcome.  So you're I just wanted I wanted to not have to buy any models. And so I looked across my armies and I was like, what can I build from what I have? And it's like, OK, well, we're we're Peyton Hylson. Sure. For myself, it's been an extremely busy week of hoppy. I I did get a game in with the new iron jaws and love that. I'll talk about that more when we do the review next week for work work plans. So come back then. I got something painted specifically for a video, which won't be out for quite a while, but that's you'll see what that is. I'm working on a seeker project. I can't share right now. And I'm also working on my annihilator unit, which also you won't be able to see. But that's my this is one of my rack cast annihilators. You can see he's got a big old bonker. That's a big bonkin hammer. They have big bonkers. These are the big bonking mace fists out of the storm fiends, but now it's there. It's their bonker. So, yeah. And the more I work on the scheme, the more I feel good about it, although with all this other painting that's been going on, and then I can go into Gen Con tomorrow, I'm not going to be able to sit down and work on him anymore. And I'll probably have to start all over again, learn it all over again for the next one, but that's all right. OK. But yeah, so it's been a super busy weekend. And once I get that, that, those annihilators finished, I have like a little more than one to go. That'll be three units I have done in this army. I'll have like 500 points, Tom. I am well on my man. You are well on your way for havoc. I am really good.  I am not. Sure, well, such is life. All right. With that, gentlemen, have you mailed me my warlord? I'm supposed to mail you a warlord. Yeah, I thought Dan said that you're mailing that to me. Oh, he didn't give it to me yet. He was sick this weekend. OK, oh, got it. Yeah, he wasn't going to come over and infect me. So that was nice of him. So, yes, yes, he is. He is giving it to me that I'll mail it to you, Tom. Because I need my warlord continue. All right. With that, storm, cast, e, tur, nulls. Let's do this, gentlemen. Here we go. Boom, boom, storm cast 3.0. Now, before I jump to my summary slide that has my summary on it, I want to get both of your thoughts. David, I want to start with you. You're the guest. How do you feel about storm cast 3.0, the newest storm cast battle tone? OK, so I'll say this. I went to bed unhappy. I woke up less unhappy. And as I continued to read the book, I got happier. That's what I'll say. I think I'll talk more about specific things later, but I think to me it's kind of a tale of two kind of books to me where the newer things got a lot of love and are super cool and exciting. And if you're someone who owns an older collection, I think there's probably some reason to not feel as happy or as excited. But I think overall, it's a good book. It's great for beginners. It's great for entry level. I think there's a high ceiling and a pretty easy barrier to entry and plenty of power in the book. There's some pretty interesting builds, a few different ways to play the army. Not many things are bad. And there aren't, well, there are a few big, big winners, but the book doesn't have too many auto-includes. All right, Tom, what's your high level take? I feel that this book is essentially, it gets the same design principles and treatment that Sons of Bahamut did. And what I mean by that is that all of the war scrolls are kind of high powered. That's where the action is. They're just good, high function scrolls. Most of them have a distinct purpose, not all of them. But they are well-designed elements for the army, yet. And then all of the secondary rules, so all the faction rules and stuff like that, are low overhead, low mental load features that allow you to focus on your army rather than focusing on all the abilities that you need to remember. But at the end of the day, I think that it's the first book that we've seen truly designed for third edition ALS, and I'm thankful for it. Because to me, what the book says is that the designers were very self-aware, and they knew what the new edition was doing, and they knew that they needed to simplify the content of the armies, the content of allegiances, stuff like that, so that it's easier to see what's going on. And I think that that's what we're seeing. That's why we don't have command abilities on war scrolls anymore or anything like that, is that it's all of that is being simplified. And I think that most of the complaints are sticker shock or they're like addition shock, because it looks like they've lost a bunch, and they have lost some, but they've lost complexity. And people are fools if they think that all books aren't going to get this treatment. This is where we're going. And so this is as much a road map for the edition. And I think that people need to pay attention to that. And so I think that at the end of the day, a lot of people are going to be disappointed when their new books come, because a lot of armies have lots of toys on their war scrolls and lots of toys in their factions that are probably just going to go away. The two that I lament is when Daughters of Cain, when that rolls around, will be to them. Luckily, they were one of the last books, so it could be a really long time. Or Lumineth would be the other one. Like, will be the Lumineth when their update comes, because a lot's not going to survive that. Yeah, I think Lumineth, Doc, and Zeench are the three that I would call out as going to get hammered.  It's just tons of rules on top of rules on top of rules. And so that's my other army. And so coming from Lumineth to this new Stormcast book is like whiplash. It's like reading two different games. Right, right. Because they are two different games. They're different editions with different core rules. And so, yeah, I mean, this is where we're going. Okay. So I have a couple thoughts. One, I partially disagree with your premise. So yes, these books were both simplified. I don't disagree with that. But the Cruel Boys are still a very techie faction. They are. Okay. But most of that's on the worst rules. That's not on like abilities you're over. I agree with that premise. I'm just saying like lots of, lots of Cruel Boys stuff have pretty techie elements to them. Sure, sure. Now, here's how, here's what I saw. I don't know. We're all guessing based on a single data point, how the line is going to be drawn here. Two data points. We have two books. It's still a single data point because they were both written and released at the same time. Can I take what you mean? But that would only strengthen my argument because here's my argument. I love this book. I think it's fantastic. I think it's full of great options and lots of different ways to play. I think it is a beautiful new design for sub factions. Allegiance abilities are cleaner. Abilities themselves are cleaner. I think this finally feels like the army somebody could pick up and play and really shows the power of good design and action of fit to purpose design. Stormcast is the beginner army. This feels like I could read it and hand it to somebody who's starting the game without feeling like I'm murdering them. The sacrosanct chamber was a nightmare. A nightmare, okay? I cannot imagine handing somebody sacrosanct and saying like when it came out and being like, this is how your basic Stormcast, this is how you play the game. It's your intro faction.   What I mean by that is they're good because the numbers are good. They're not good because- It feels like the- They're not good because of BS, they're good. It's the fighter class in D&D. Absolutely correct. Absolutely correct. There is nothing wrong with the fighter class in D&D. You know why he's good? Because he's got good numbers and basic abilities and he just punches people hard and he can take a punch back. And people, if fighter remains to this day the most popular class that people select, okay? Like every report I see out of D&D Beyond because it's a big database, they publish regular reports from. Every one of them has the basic fighter, champion fighter, the basicist of basic fighter as the most popular class subclass combination, okay? So having something that actually speaks to the basics and just works, especially as your intro faction is exactly how this should have been designed from the beginning. It took us almost seven years and we finally figured out how to design Stormcast correctly. All right, I'm not talking about their power level right now, I mean the design. As Skade said, it's just good fundamentals. It is good fundamentals. Now I think when I looked at Cruel Boys which is supposed to be the Trixie faction. Yeah, that's what they are. By the way, Cruel Boys have some pretty bonds or allegiance abilities. They do. More rests in there than in Stormcast, okay? And Cruel Boys don't have the numbers. Look at their basic troops and how they're costed. Like we're not talking Oryx but I'm just preview for next week, okay? They're a faction that relies on tricks. They're written more complexly because they're meant to be a more Johnny army. You don't design complex blue counter control cards in the same way you design green two for two beater bears. Right. All right, these are different things, right? And so to me, if this is the future of how books are gonna be designed where they're actually fit to the theme, purpose, form and function of the army then we're good. This is gonna be the greatest addition ever because the designers have finally figured out to stop over designing things that shouldn't be like that and fit the design to purpose. And to me, the distinction between old and new units, I don't buy it. I don't. I think that's all resting on the dragons which I think the dragons are a bit too good and I think there's still some units that are complete waste in this book but that's what you're gonna have in a 74 war scroll faction, okay? I think there is a ton of old units that are very good and competitive. I think if there's any problem in this book, it's that there's a few, it's all in points. Dragons need to go up a little bit. Couple other units need to come down a little bit. That's literally it and points is like the easiest thing to fix. But like why would anybody ever take a night at zero? We'll talk about, I didn't say every scroll is good Tom. Okay. We'll talk about, like we'll talk about the scrolls. We're gonna go through every scroll, okay? And as like I said, there are dead scrolls in here. No joke. There are probably 20 scrolls in here that I wouldn't even look twice at. Could they be called the dead sea scrolls? Ah, they're good. But like, and by the way, there's nothing innately good about simplification. Okay. Like I know that's not the argument I'm making. In an extremely complex addition, it is good to have a more simplified, you know, set of books. So like, if on the whole, we strip out some nonsense and keep things smoother and leave the tricksy-ness to the tricksy factions, then that's a good thing because it does let you focus on the extremely high complexity of the base addition. Okay. So fine. Fine on all that, right? But ultimately my argument has nothing to do with like, oh, it's simple. I know this was the thing Rob made.  Yeah, they did. That's not good in and of itself. What's good about it is it's form to function. This is meant to be the simple faction that relies on having good, strong numbers. And they do now. The number of three up saves in this book is crazy. Okay. It makes my head hurt. Like they are hard as a rock. There's a huge amount of Ren too. Good amount of Ren three, lots of multi-damage. They're on numbers, right? Like when you look at numbers, these guys have good ones, right? Okay. And ultimately to me, that's how a faction like this should work. Stormcast aren't tricks. They're thunder gods who teleport down on the battle and smash the crap out of anything in their way or hold the line against the innumerable hordes of chaos because they are the unbreakable wall of Sigmar's will made manifest. And that is what this book represents. Like 100%, that's what I feel reading this. Yeah. So if we get formed to function books from now on, like when we get the Zinch book, I don't think they'll strip much out of it. I honestly don't. I'm sure they'll simplify some stuff. But I think Zinch will still be a weird, tricksy, dumb, complicated nightmare because that's what Zinch is. He's the god of cheating. So I think that's what he'll basically still be doing. Right? And ultimately there is value to like keeping things tight and to having things be obvious and not having like memory tricks.  And in this weird situation on this six to wound on this one attack of this offhand and at the main thing you do, suddenly more stuff happens and yada, yada, yada, yada. Yeah, good. It's complexity. Cut that stuff.  Okay, I would have cut it six years ago. So the fact that we're getting to it now is good. I think that's all, I agree with you. And that's kind of been my journey. It's my journey like getting to like a happier place. I think there's still some certain scrolls and we'll talk about them later, but that had rules removed inexplicably that I didn't think were like, they weren't like overbearing or hard or broken in any way. And they were just kind of like taken away from the scroll and it made the scrolls to me in some ways lose some flavor and interest because now there's no reason for them all to see the table. Yeah. Hades, they don't pay enough. And by the way, Hades, don't worry, I'm gonna turn you around on that on those prosecutors with javelins. You made a good investment there by the way, buddy. I saw your, I saw, I've been watching your chat. Don't worry. Like prosecutor javelins, that's a stonks. Those guys are, I'm living for those guys right now. There is some old stuff that is real treasures in this book and that was one of them. Okay. Prosecutors have never been better. Yeah, I absolutely agreed. Like the javelin boys, I'm in on them so hard. So if you just picked some up, well done. Well done.  So anyways, let's get into this. It's not a perfect book. I wanna end on that. This is far from a perfect book. I, there are lots of problems with a 74 war scroll of which 39 are leaders. I mean, that's insane. Right? So. There's just gonna be dead weight. Okay. A lot. But there's also plenty of options in here I think of different play style, okay? So, but we'll get into it. Let's get into the book itself. All right. Storm hosts and all that stuff. You have a storm host, whatever. You're gonna always pick one now because there's no downside to them anymore. We'll talk about that in a minute. Okay.  Like, fine, whatever. I don't think that actually, like the Thunderstrike bonus, I wish they would have just cut that but I get why they did it to try to make some kind of difference there. It's an irrelevantly different number especially on the big wound models. It's like, instead of 12 rolls you get 13. Oh, that's gonna make the difference. You know, like maybe over a whole unit of Thunderstrike guys, it's five more dice if they all die so it's not nothing, right? But it is a fairly minimal bonus overall. Again, over the course of a whole game if you have all Thunderstrike versus all non Thunderstrike and you get tabled, sure, maybe you do an average of five more mortal wounds because of Thunderstrike so like it's not nothing, I guess. Right, but it's whatever. They're the GLA may now. I get it. That's a very old reference. We'll see if anybody gets that one. So Scions of the Storm is what it's always been. You put half your army up into heavens you teleport down, bing-bang. Stormkeep is one in four can be cities of Sigmar units. Yep, which is cool. In addition, you add one to the braver characteristic of friendly Stormkeep units, whether near any Redeemers. This is really the Redeemer type of faction. Like I think there are, there is definitely a Redeemer build that they want you to build and there are options for it. And I think it is strong and Shield of Civilization is doing a lot of that work where in the first and second battle rounds any friendly Stormkeep Redeemers, are Liberators, Vendictors, and... Sequiturs. Sequiturs, yes. Is it one of the big sword guys? Oh, yes, thank you. And what are they? What's the vanquishers? Thank you. Yes, or the other ones? Appreciate it. Yeah, the new big sword guys. We haven't even, like I forgot we saw those models until I looked in the book and read them. And I was like, oh yeah, they did preview those guys. What are those guys? Stormcast, Stormcast with luminous blade lords. Yeah, exactly.  And then we never, just nothing, just never mentioned them again. So, but anyways, in the first and second battle round your Redeemer units count as three models for the purposes of contesting objectives, whole or partially in your territory. From round three on, they count as three models everywhere when contesting any objectives. And in addition, if an enemy unit finishes a charge move within one inch of a friendly Stormkeeper Deemer unit, those within six inches of an objective you control, roll a die, on a three plus that unit suffers D3 mortal wounds. Okay, fine, sure. Need enough, I guess. But it's like that in addition is one of those things that like, we talk about simplification, I don't know man, I might have cut it. It probably would have been cut. It feels like it'll be forgotten. Yeah, yeah. A lot.  It'll make people less excited to charge low wound heroes and near your Redeemers if they're standing near objectives. That's what I'll say. Because this army, I think there's another build in here that has, that is the Splash Mortal Wounds build that's always been something Stormcast have played around with. And I think it's a very real now in this book. There is a lot of just do some D3 mortal wounds around everywhere in this book. And this is one of them. When all your units are little porcupines, it's not nothing. It adds up when it's every Redeemer unit near objectives. So, I don't have anything else to say about the allegiance abilities. Gentlemen, any thoughts between the two? They're both fine. This is my note.  And she said, was I think there's certainly like a shield of Sigmar build, right?  I mean, that's kind of like the, you know, I think that there's actually probably a pretty competitive build there. Yeah. Tom? It's fine. Yeah, they're fine. They're fine. They're fine. Like, yep, you can teleport or do this other thing. Cool, okay, great. Good, good stuff. Okay, command traits. So there are, these are bad for the most part. It's just gonna, I'm just gonna say that out of the gate. We did, we have clearly haven't nailed writing command traits yet. Now that we get to take them, they immediately wrote basically three that are not interesting. And one that you're gonna take every time depending on who you're, is in your army. So shock and awe, if your army is science of the storm and your general's on the battlefield at the end of the movement phase, subtract one from hit rolls for attacks that target friendly science of the storm units that were set up in that phase until the end of that turn. Basically the old shock and awe rule that they had in the previous book has now become a command trait. So it was pretty worthless before, but I guess it's okay now that you can, cause you can drop people on seven inches away. So you are more likely to land the charge and need the neg one to hit. So okay, it's fine. I give it a four out of 10. Stanch Defender is just super bad now, like super duper bad. Like the curse of it used to be good. This is the one habit that GW could not break themselves of. When something used to be really good and show up a lot, they just kick it in the teeth so hard. And I just do not understand that instinct. Like why? This isn't even like a model. This is just a thing. Unless it's Hagnar. Right. Somebody went to bat for Hagnar internally and was like, no, you won't touch my precious baby. Okay. So at any rate, Stanch Defender is terrible. I'm not even gonna read it. It does nothing. You don't take it. Next. But the next one is like new Stanch Defender. Yeah, but it's, yes, but it's very complicated to use. So if a friendly Stormcast Eternals, Envoy of the Heavens, if a friendly Stormcast Eternals model is slain wholly within 12 inches of this general, you can add one to save rules for attacks that target the slain model's unit until the end of that phase, the same unit cannot benefit from this ability more than once per turn. So to benefit from this, you have to have multiple units attacking that one unit. Right. The key is, the purpose is like, when you have an objective holding unit that you know that they're gonna try to peel. Sure, that they're gonna multi-charge. That they're gonna multi-charge or shoot, multi-shoot. Well, yeah, sure. It's like they have to peel that one unit, yes. Right, right. Sure.  Well, I mean. The last one. The last one, or the Command Traits and the Core Rules, did you forget that there are generic Command Traits? Yes, I remember. Because we all remember there are generic enhancements, but we all forgot that there are generic Command Traits. And guess what? They're actually interesting in this army because there's a good one for priests and a good one for wizards. Mm-hmm. I actually really, I really like the master of the Celestial Menagerie. I think that one's amazing. Because it's amazing. Yes. I was gonna say, but they absolutely, that's the good one. It absolutely is. This one, I mean, is obviously so good. Like, it's too good compared to the other three I hate when they do this. Because yes, if this general's a monster and is on the battlefield, subtract one from moon rolls for attacks made with melee weapons, the target-friendly Stormcast Eternals monsters. So if your general's a Star Drake or a Knight or Conus or whatever, then or a Torlon guy, try and think of other monster writers, they could get it. I think that might be the three. There's probably another one, I'm forgetting, there's 80 million heroes. Then your Stormcast Eternals monsters, namely him, because he himself is a monster, and like the other dragon riders or whatever, also get Meg one to be wounded in melee, which is like really good. Super duper crazy, silly, good. Like I'm excited, because I'm making a dragon army, which by the way, I was making a dragon army, I was gonna make a dragon army. Regardless of how these rules came out, I've been talking about it for months. So hey, thumbs up for me, I guess. So great. But yeah, there are basic command traits in the core rules that honestly work really well with this army. Check them out. There's a good priest who had a good wizard one, and you often have priests or wizards in those kind of general worship roles, so. But yes, if you're running the monster boss, which I think is gonna be, the third build is obviously just dragons, right? The three, there are four builds in my mind. The Redeemer Tank build, also I'll just put them out right now and we'll see how true it proves. The Redeemer Tank build, the chip damage mortal wound build, the dragons, like all dragons, we'll call it the Daenerys Targaryen build, right?  Like, shoot cast is still a thing. So, back to me, he feels like the four builds. Is the Torl on good now? Maybe, he's got, he's interesting. I'm gonna, we'll see. I'm gonna defend him a little bit. I promise, I can see the look on your face, David. I know, don't worry. It's a hard no for me. That's fine, we'll get there, we'll get there. I'll see if I can turn around a little. All right, artifacts, gentlemen, I have a question for you. Are any of these weapons good? The weapons, the first bar, are any of these worth taking under any circumstances, ever? I mean, Rural hits is good. Okay, the silence means no. No, they are not. They are not, they're not good. These, the weapons, the Stormforged weapons, poor. Poor showing, poor showing. There's no way, here's the bar, okay? It's this easy. It's this easy to say as an artifact good. Would you take this artifact instead of an amulet of destiny or an arcane tome? And if the answer is no, are you insane, then the artifact's not good. That's the bar, okay? Like, I didn't set the bar, they set the bar. They did it.  I don't know what to say. The armor, however, I think there are choices. Now here, we've got some life. I think there are two in here that I think are interesting, at least. Drake scale armor, you can reroll saverals for attacks made with weapons that have a damage characteristic of two or more. Rerolling saves is very rare and very powerful in this edition.  So rerolling your saves is a good thing, like a very good thing, because it cuts down the damage you take immensely. In general, against like one damage attacks here that aren't gonna tend to be more than rend one, you'll be fine, like you can just shrug those, right? And then obviously the mirror shield. Oh, baby. That mirror shield, now we're talking. The bearer cannot be picked as the target of a shooting attack unless the attacking unit is within nine inches of the bearer. Incredible. Tasty. Take that, Sentinels.  Most of them don't. Right, because most of them say you don't have line of sight and it's like Sentinels are like, well, we've got a bird. For some reason, this matters. Well, mirrors trick birds. That's true. Both of them fly right into it. Right, so it just doesn't work on Sentinels. Sorry, sorry, Bird. Yes, James is the best one, it's awesome. It's amazing. I love it. Great way to keep your general alive, fantastic. Love seeing this in there. James says, what does a D3 count as? Does it count as a damage characteristic of two or more? Great question. Do not know the answer to that. I would say yes, but I'm sure the FAQ will answer that question because I've seen it be asked like 50 times. I think somebody even asked it on Facebook somewhere. So like, if it's permeated that deeply, to me what it says is multi-damage, but they don't have the concept of multi-damage, but that's what they were going, right? There's no multi-damage word in the core. My answer is anything that doesn't read one. Yeah, yeah, exactly, that's right. Which should have been the way they phrased it, but whatever. The artifacts, the tempest, could be some interesting ones depending on your build and how many artifacts you have. I don't know. Like, luckstone to me stood out because you can just make a 12-inch charge, right? It gives you the Celestial, Celestial Prime ability, sorry. Yeah. So, pretty cool. Like, being able to say I am going to charge 12 inches right now is very powerful as anybody who's playing Zing will tell you. So, yeah. Anything else on the artifacts? Did I not mention anything? No, they're fine. Yeah, we got a couple good ones, which is fine. You got a couple options. Yep. So, that's cool. Let's see. Spells. All right, so we have Stormcast Eternal Hero Wizards, including unique units only. Which I like that they added that little text in there. Thanks. That's good. Now we don't have to refer to the FAQ. So, I guess the question is, any of these spells that stood out to you, y'all? What do you gentlemen like in the spell thing here? I don't want to just be me talking. I know I've got some mix. I've always been a fan of Azerite Halo.  Sure.  Like I used to love this obviously on the Lord Selston who had a re-roll once already with enough bonuses to bounce. But I still like it. On the Selston on Star Drake, he doesn't even already have this. It's like he couldn't trigger twice. Is this on his Thunder Shield? I believe it is already on his Thunder Shield, yes. When we get to it, his Thunder Shield is something like this, so yeah. I think it is. It's on... Well, we'll get there. We'll look at it. Let's... So the reason, so here's my pushback. Technically, their roll is not triggering an ability. Their roll is triggering your ability. And that's not how the stacking effect is working. No, it's the unmodified save roll that triggers it. But we'll get to it. We'll see what it says. It's not about the source. It's about what triggered it immediately. And it's an unmodified save roll of six. But anyways, yeah. I think Celestial Blades is interesting. Getting plus one to wound is good. It's not a buff that happens very often. So if you can get plus one to wound, it's particularly interesting. Yeah, yeah, agreed, agreed. And we should say all these, not all, but most of these spells and prayers are gonna have this little distinction that it's like 12 inches if a knight, 18 inches if a lord or draken. So there's sort of that distinction that occurs throughout the book, right? Yeah, I kind of like Starfall. It's some really interesting tech. I love Starfall, man. I'm excited about it. Yeah, a hundred percent.  So it's pretty restrictive because it's a single turn. It's still on a three up. It's still within a certain range, but not being able to pile in is a really powerful ability. Yeah. So, yeah, I'm mixed. I'm mixed on that one. It's really good. I hate having to roll to cast and then roll again to see if it works. That irritates me. It's about just having to do that. But I mean, it is really good. If you hit that bubble amongst a bunch of units, it could be really, really good.  Yeah, it is a pretty decent sized space. And it's only three inches out. It doesn't sound like big, but it's a six inch diameter on the board. It's a decent. I'd love to hit Knights of the Empty Throne with that. Sure. Right.  Yeah, it'd be great. Right. Well, it just that like, you don't get to participate in this combat because you set up six inches outside of combat and we're gonna pile in and we're like, nope, you don't get to play. Yeah. Like this turn. Yes. So, yeah, interesting spells. Like Thunder Shock School, the old plus one to wound, minus one to wound, both good. So, you know, the fact that you've got a couple of different sources of minus one to wound is nice. In the book, it's a very, very strong debuff. By the way, I have a couple of people have asked, where is Tyler? Tyler will be back next week. We've talked to what we're gonna do is we're gonna alternate week to week. Basically, in most cases, it won't always go exactly week to week, but there'll be alternations. Some weeks, it'll be all three of us. You know, it'll be a thing, but Tyler's still gonna be with us. So- He is part of the Warhammer Weekly broadcast team. He's part of the team now, that's right. Yeah, he's in the family. Yeah, I agree. I mean, the two damaging spells are the ones that I'm like, okay. They're whatever, it's fine. Stormcast don't do damaging spells well. I don't know what to say. But I think all of the other four all have some kind of interesting play. And I think stopping piling in is generally pretty strong. So, yeah. Prayers. Yeah, so- You have my attention. Yeah, all three of these are good, right? I mean, that's what we can say here. It's good to be a priest working for sickness. He gives good prayer. He gives good prayer. Rero wants to hit. Why? Hello.  So that debuff can benefit multiple units. Yes, this prayer is a very basic slanesh spell that like every slanesh caster in the army gets all of the basic heroes do that spell that gives you Rero wants to hit. And it's real good. It's the same thing. Literally the exact same thing. You put it on a target unit and then anybody who attacks them gets Rero wants to hit. They're stealing slanesh's prayer here. So there you go. So yeah, translocation, answer value of three. All these are answer value threes now, which is good.  It does not, at the moment, bar you from moving afterwards. That's gotta get a fact. I think there's no way that that's intentional. Will it stay? That is the question. I tend to come down with you, David, but I've also seen some arguments that maybe it won't. It seems silly that they would still allow movement afterward. That just, it feels like the biggest oversight, but I don't know. Yeah. They just left out the line. Yeah. I think they just left out the line and didn't catch it. I don't know. Do we know how they write these rules? I think it'd just be really strange if they didn't. It's weird. And then catechism of murder. I mean, bless weapons. Right, yes, exactly. Yep, and then catechism of bless weapons, yes, correct. Which is if you pray it up and then if the unmodified hit roll for an attack made by the unit is six, that attack scores two hits on the target instead of one. That works, by the way, for both shooting and melee. So there you go. Which is cool. Love how we're just handing out our prayers to Stormcast. Double tap and it's just that it's taking all the other people's stuff. And I'm, yeah, it was good, it's good stuff. I think all three of those prayers are viable. Any disagreement? Like I think it says to me you're gonna have a priest in every army, right? At least one. Yeah. Agreed. Mount Traits, one hero with the Star Drake, Drakenith, Drakoff, Dracoline, or Griffcharger keyword. So many different weird things, Stormcast Ride. There are actually multiple interesting ones here, I think. Did you guys have any that you particularly liked or that stood out to you that you wanna start with? Who doesn't like six inch pylon? There you go, that's right. This, that's the one I read initially. It was like, oh, heck yeah. And then it read the Star Drakes couldn't do it. And I was like, ah. And they did that multiple times throughout here where I would like read it and get excited about the ability to think about what I'd wanna put it on. And that particular unit couldn't do it. And I'm like, ah, come on. But I think there's some pretty interesting stuff here for sure. Yeah. Yeah, I mean, the six inch pylon etheric swiftness is really good. Yes, it cannot, like, and you're right. It's really restricted to Griffchargers, Drakoffs, or Dracolines. That being said, I do think it's very strong on like the just simple Lord Celeston on Drakoff. Like I think he's a great, you're gonna use that guy who, you know, he could be an interesting part of a Redeemer build for reasons we'll see.  Like, in other words, being very mobile and an otherwise fairly staunch kind of army, right? Yeah. You're saying having etheric swiftness? Mm-hmm. Yeah, I mean, I hear that. But at the end of the day, I think we're bearing the lead. I mean, Celestial Instincts is the right answer. Like, wait, you're telling me that I get to bake in Mr. Toots' ability into every Star Drake? Sure. Yeah, there's your answer, right? Because yes, the Celestial Instincts, this unit can retreat and still either shoot or charge in the same turn. So just permanent retreat and charge. That's really good. Yeah, it's good. It's good. It's really good. Yeah, I mean, it can go on anything, right? That's the advantage. And like, I like a lot of you on Star Drake. Like I like some of the other ones, but like to me, Celestial Instincts is the winner head and shoulders. Yeah, I mean, the light of the young stars on the Star Drake is interesting because you do it instead of a monstrous rampage, but it's not actually a monstrous rampage. So you can do it to things that have hunters in the heartlands, right? Because it doesn't say this is a new monstrous rampage. Like it does in the Cruel Voice Tome where it gives, or sorry, in War Clans where it actually gives you a new heroic option for your heroes. In this case, it just says instead of doing this, you can do this thing, right? And yeah, neg one to be hit. So cool. I also really, really love Thunderous Presence. We should mention Thunderous Presence, which is for Drake and Eth only for your like night draconis. You can choose this ability instead of carrying out a monstrous rampage. Once again, it's instead of so it, you know, it doesn't, like you can't be immune to it and you pick one enemy unit within one inch of this unit and roll a die on a three plus that unit cannot receive commands in the following battle shock phase. Oh, hello, no immunity to battle shock. Get wrecked. Love this. And, you know, if you double up, mm, double up, then you can with another monster then you can roar at them and do this.  And then it's time to go to town. So yeah, good stuff here. And then your Envoy of Lightning is also perfectly fine. You can give the unit the annihilator ability. Right, it's fine. Which is cool, yeah. Okay, yeah, in other words, I think lots of interesting mount traits, right? For kind of no matter what type of mount you have. By the way, I think the retreat and still shoot in charge can be useful on lots of things. But yeah, I'm sorry, go ahead, David. Oh no, you're, no, I was gonna say the Envoy of Lightning kind of goes into that splash D3 mortal wounds build pretty nicely.  So he's seven away from everything, right? And suddenly there's a lot of things in the unit and now Bing Bang Boom, more mortal wounds splashing on a lot of different units, right? Like people are just gonna have to spread in weird ways against you because of the way you, because of the ability of this army and if you're running the mortal wounds splash build to just be like in that point, in that point, just all sorts of stuff like that. So, yeah. Okay. All right, boop, let's keep going. Unique enhancements, command abilities, oh hello. So as Tom mentioned, there are no more command abilities on any war scrolls. Those are gone, which is fine. A lot of them aren't actually gone. No one's ever really gone, Tom. Most of them, many of the command abilities just became abilities on the scroll that now no longer require a resource to use, okay? So a lot of the command abilities are just things they do now for existing rather than a thing you had to spend a resource on. Let me just start there. All right. So I'm not like, that's a good thing. Losing a command ability and making it just now a free aura, hmm. Which one's better? Oh yeah, the free aura, okay. But these are, you basically you get to choose a command ability, you would get to choose one of these because it's a unique enhancement. You pick one of the following. This could be chosen as an additional if you wanted with your battalion. Yeah, with your army battalions. If you received magnificent or whatever, the one that gives you an extra enhancement, you could choose an extra one of these. All of these are once per battle. And I think there are a couple in here that are pretty interesting. Gentlemen, what grabs you? What grabs you out of this list? Obviously Thunderbolt Volley is one, I mean, right, double tapping shooting is gonna be always good. Never hasn't been good. Yep, still good. Double shooting in the Europe base. Yes, Thunderbolt Volley, Thunderbolt's enlightening, very, very frightening indeed. You can double tap a just a car or Angelo's unit. Thank you for using that keyword. That's comical that you think I would ever double tap a prosecutor unit, but I appreciate the instinct. It's nice of them to include it. No, you're double tapping just a cars. Let's be real here. Yeah, go ahead Tom.  Like, pretty good. I always like bonus attacks. Now it's not gonna get a lot of mileage unless you're running like 10 models.  The protectors, is that what you're talking about? The protectors, yeah. I think protectors are one of the things where their stonks have went up. And I think they're one of those hidden gems that we didn't talk about. They didn't make my list, but it could have because of the monster meta that we're in. Like, don't forget each one of those are swinging around the D6 wounds against monsters. Right? That's still true. I didn't know, that's not true. I don't remember what's on them. We'll look at them. I think that might have changed to some degree. We'll look, I literally don't remember, Tom. But regardless, some of those have some pretty punchy attacks. No, completely agreed. There's a lot of the Paladin units got real interesting. By the way, the new annihilators officially got their Paladin keyword now as well. So like, and the new big hammer, neg two, rend three damage double-handed hammer annihilators. Also interesting, okay? Right, yeah. And yes, everybody's telling you, Tom, that that's gone. So I thought it was gone. Oh, I, for some reason, I thought it was still there. No, I mean, there are plenty of Paladin units that I think that was one of one of, like that's one of Rob's complaints that I do agree with. They stripped out a little bit too much of the anti-monster stuff in a monster meta, which is weird. I would have liked to see a couple units still have some, a little bit more specialization in their role that wouldn't necessarily hurt the simplicity that bad. Like if I had a critique, it would be that in the, in the pursuit of positive, of reducing unnecessary complexity, they also sometimes killed flavor in a negative way. And what they should have done is kill a boring rule and kept an interesting rule. They didn't always make that choice correctly. So that's a fair critique. Okay, but we'll get there. There, the Paladins I think have like, man, there is a Paladin heavy army that is real now between this commandability. Okay. And what we're going to talk about when we get to sub factions. Like I could even imagine running like decimators with that plus one attack. Is there already like five attacks a model? They're the ones with the axes. Yeah, they go seven with their ability. Seven with their ability, eight with that. So like that's 40 attacks out of those five dudes. It's a lot. That's pretty good. Yeah. And then obviously call for aid, you can just restore a Redeemer unit, like five dudes to the battlefield so you can just get back five Vendictors or something like that. It's quite a lot of model restore that could be floated around in the Stormcast army. Like if you're running Yandrosta where she's dropping a model back into every unit around her every turn. If you have the new Knight Vexelor whose banner can restore basically up to three dudes, you know, you get back a unit here. There's actually quite a lot of restore that's there. Yeah. And then there's final Thunderstrike, which we're not going to talk about because it's terrible. There is also a steadfast March by the way, which gives you run in charge. So like, hey, guess what's good? Run in charge. It's still good. It's still good. Run in charge. Still a good thing. 2021. It's still good. News break. It's still good. But if it's my one once per game thing, I'm not sure that it's the one that I choose out of that set. I think it would depend on my army build. But you know, what I'll say is oftentimes I only need run in charge once around. Once. Right. You need to get across there once. Right. Like I'm here. I want to be there. And then I win. Yeah, maybe. That's true. I mean, yeah. All right. So like what I would say is this, I could very easily see a world where I take like a bonus enhancement and take Thunderbolt volley and steadfast March. Sure. You know, or call for aid and steadfast March. Yeah. Like it's a good second. Yeah. I agree with that. I totally not to minimize your point, David. Cause you're absolutely right. I'm looking at these going like, man, there's there are multiples of these I think I would take first. Right. Depending on my army construction. But I think it is like, it's a good place to look for a second enhancement. There's a lot of fighting for your bonus enhancements in this book. Like there are a lot of good options here that'll flavor your buildings. Yeah. I mean, you're right though. If you're building like an all dragon army, you're not really going to use the other ones. So it might be that, you know, that your run in charge is the best one to take. So yeah, that's true. Yes. That is true. You see, David, I've come to a realization on what I enjoy in Warhammer and what I enjoy in Warhammer more than anything in the world is mobility. I want to be wherever I want to be every round all the time without fail. And I found that that wins games somehow. Surprisingly.  And weird how that works. Weird how that works. So speed. I got a need for it, you might say. All right. Anyways, so I like that one. Yes, by the way, I see Sean said LOL buttons are fun. Yes, they are. Hit the like button. It's fun. See, just like it says right up there. It says it right up there. You can see it. Hit that like button. Hope so that people find the show, especially midstream. The more of you to hit like now, the more YouTube does a thing and more people come find the show. Storm hosts. All right. All right, gentlemen. Here we go. So this is how sub factions work now, okay? All the other things are gone. You don't sacrifice anything to choose them. You just choose one and you go. Great, fine. This is true in both books, by the way. It'll be true next week for WarX. This is how sub factions are. Do all sub factions work like this going forward? Who knows? Who knows? Right? Does that mean when we get a scaven book it's gonna look completely different? I don't know. Or will the slaves look like this? I don't know. Or will they still have a different type of build? You know, the more, because they didn't eat your command trade either, right? They had a different type of sub faction. Who knows? Here's what I know. Some of these are real good and interesting and some of these are not. All right, so we're gonna play a game here, okay? You ready? I'm gonna read it real quick and then you're gonna both give me a hot take. David, you're first, then Tom. I want you to give me a good or bad and then we can say why. Ready? Hammers of Sigmar. Friendly Hammers of Sigmar units wholly within 12 inches and an objective have a ward of six plus. David. Boring. Okay, boring, but is it good? It's fine. All right. I don't know if it's bad. I don't know if it's bad. Real quick, I know you want to go quick. No, no, no. But I will say in a world of lots of mortal wounds, having an aftersave of any kind is probably good. But I don't get it super excited about a six plus. That's fair. That's fair, totally fair. Tom. Good. Okay. Because when you don't have to have a hero to get a bonus aftersave on that group of five liberators that's guarding an objective. Then what's better than for five liberators guarding objective, five liberators with a six up aftersave? Okay. I've been dictating a holding an objective is better than five liberators. This is also true. But either way, been dictating for the six up aftersave is also good. I would also state that they might have just well of said friendly Hammers of Sigmar units have a six up ward save. Okay. Because 12 inches of objectives in this game. It's massive. It's massive. Okay. Yeah. It's not the size of where you can test the objective. It is, and it's not twice as big as that because that's not how diameter works, right? Like this pi R squared gets a lot larger when the R is 12 versus the R of six. I did the math and it was like 113 inches square or something like that was how much space you cover. And that's how that's the actual space of a normal objective. And it's like 440 something for this. Okay. Square inches. So it's a lot of the board, you know, like in anything where the objectives are in the middle like tectonic interference or something, these are overlapping. These bubbles are overlapping each other by like nine inches, right? It's massive. Yeah. It's boring, but it's probably not bad. It's okay. I agree with you. That's my argument. All right. The Hollow Knights only the faithful. If a friendly Hollow Knights redeemer model is slain within three inches of any enemy units, we'll die on a four plus. They can fight before they're removed from play. David, your call. Good or bad. Let's give you a quick thought. Why too? Good or bad and why? I think it's good. I think being able to fight after you die is good. Anybody who's fought old gristle gore knows all about it. Yep. Tom? Yeah, it's fine. I mean, what I'll say is this. Yes, and it has nothing to do with the actual ability. Okay. Why so? Because it lets me feel Gartus, who's also going to give me a five up or an aftersave. Sure. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. That's fair. Like Gartus gives you a five up aftersave and a big bubble now. Gartus is good now. By the way, we finally, we fixed him. Yes. And so I look at that because like when I, like if I'm doing Hollow Knights, the question is, what else am I having to feel? Or what else do I have the options to feel? And what this says is, hey, your army can also have Gartus with that five up aftersave, which is better than that six up aftersave. And I fight, I have 50% chance to fight, which doesn't trigger as much as you think it would. Trust me, one of my lists did that. Well, one might say statistically it triggers 50% of the time. Yeah, it doesn't feel that way. Like I know you're saying that. It doesn't feel that way. Sure. So what I would say is that like it's good. Like I would take it. I would say if you're in a, if you're going to enter Redeemer's army, that's that's pumping back like mortal wounds on death. And then you also get to fight on death.  Right. Yeah, it's more porcupine, right? For the porcupine Redeemer build, which by the way, you can buff up Redeemers and the like, there are ways to get them bonus attacks and bonus things that can actually make them, like, especially if Indictors do damage or even sequiturs, like both of those can actually do real damage. I mean, they're not like hammers, but they'll do enough that in the fight between like a D3 on the way in, their Thunder Strike on the way out, they fought then an extra fight for 50% of them. Like it's, it just adds up as they grind you down. It's attrition. It's not as flashy as the Gull King on Terragite's coming in and blowing you up with 18 mortal wounds, but it like, it will get there. So yeah, I agree. Okay, driven by vengeance. Start of the combat phase. You can pick one friendly Celestial Vindicators unit that made a charge move that turn until your next hero phase, if the unmodified hit roll for an attack made with a melee weapon by the unit is six, two hits instead of one. Basically they get less weapons every combat phase for one unit for free. David. I think it depends on the build. I think a lot of units already get this in certain ways. There's lots of ways to get this exact ability. It doesn't get me as excited because of that. Like it's not unique in that. But I think it's good if you don't already have a way to get that ability. Okay. Tom? Fine. I agree. This one's fine. Marco says 10 Vindictors dying will do two damage fighting all on death. I don't know what you mean, Marco. Do you mean all 10 of them attacking back? I would want to know what numbers you're saying because that is not correct math. But like, if you can show me your numbers, I'm willing to believe you unless you, but depending on what you mean again. It's Vindictors trigger mortals on a six. So right away it's going to be higher than that just because of the number of attacks that they make. But sure, I get it. Like I understand it's not a huge amount of extra damage as at the same time. Okay. Anvils of the Heldon Hammer. Now real quick, Anvils were the really probably too good when last time, right? Yes. Okay, cool. Just checking. At the end of the charge phase, you can, I'm not even going to read it. I'm not even going to read it. Gotcha, GW. I'm not reading this. I'm not reading this. Okay. And yeah, it's bad. It's a bad ability. I don't know what else to say. Next. Yep. Thank you. Next. Okay, Knights Excelsior. Once per turn, this is so overtly written, but it gets to a good place. This is the opposite of the last one. There's so much text, but we at least get to a good place. Okay. Once per turn, at the start of the combat phase, you can pick one friendly Knights Excelsior Paladin unit. So all the retributors, God, what are they all called? Retributors? Retributors, decimators, annihilators. There we go. Thank you. Yes. All of those. Until the end of that phase, when you until, okay, a little bit of a lot. On the battlefield. Until the end of that phase, when you pick that unit to fight, pick one enemy unit within one inch of that unit. If the number of models in that enemy unit is greater than the number of models in that Paladin unit, add one to hit and wound rolls for attacks made by that Paladin unit that target that enemy unit until the end of that phase. Okay. That was a lot of words for plus one to hit and wound. David, your feeling? Good if you're planning on running a Paladin heavy build. Obviously, obviously, if you're not, obviously, you would run it, but if you're playing against like, Sons of Baymont or something or some other army that's not gonna have, you're never gonna be outnumbered by, it's worthless. But yeah. Yup. It's good in those builds. Okay. Yeah. Yeah, I think this is super strong, actually. Because, especially on annihilators, because annihilators are Paladins and because they come in threes, so they will very often be outnumbered, right? Like there's like many units they go against will have more than them. It's a little harder to pull off with your five-man Paladin units because they might often be other, they might often be up against five-man units, right? Those are very common so they don't get their bonus. But like I think on annihilators, that is a crazy good bonus. And so, yes. And then in Knights Excelsior, I should be mentioning this. Hammers makes the Dracothean Guard battle line. Knights Excelsior also makes the all of the Paladins battle line. So like you have a good reason if you are in Knights Excelsior, you're gonna take the Paladin Command Tray, you're gonna take the Knights Excelsior sub-faction, and then you can make some pretty brutal Paladins, right? So yeah. Okay, cool. Celestial Warbringers, once per battle, sorry, once per phase, you can re-roll one hit roll, one rune roll, for an attack made by a friendly Celestial Warbringers unit, or one save roll for an attack that targets a friendly Celestial Warbringers unit. David.  It is, let's wound, hit, and save, so it'd be one-dice. Like if you roll four attacks, you pick one and re-roll it. That would be what it would be. Yeah, I don't like it. Okay. Tom, don't feel like it's big enough, is that the thing? Yeah, I just don't think it's impactful enough in comparison to everything else that's in the list. Okay, cool. I love it. Okay, why so, Tom? Because when those attacks are coming in on my Celestial Warbringer dragon, and I'm only failing on a one, I wanna re-roll that one. Yes, that is correct. I'm sorry, David, I'm going to disagree with you on this one and say, let me restate the ability for you, David, on the way I read it, okay, which is like this. Once per phase, in your combat, sorry, in the combat phase, okay? Or the enemy shooting phase, you can re-roll one save roll, okay? Anyone? In your shooting phase, you can re-roll one hit or wound roll, because that's how the ability is actually gonna be used, right? And now all of a sudden, I am super interested, because oftentimes, exactly with the way that these guys are gonna be able to put out saves, it's like, well, I only fail one or two in any given clutch dice. I only needed to re-roll one of them, right? And I'm in the zone. The auto, the auto save zone. So yeah. I guess I'm having, okay, yeah. The way, when you say like that, it sounds a lot better. I guess I'm comparing it versus the rest of them. I think there are others that speak to me more, specifically the two next ones. Hey, I get it. This isn't my favorite one either, but I just think that like- It's boring, but it's boring, but it's safe. Yes. There is a 40K ability, by the way, that does this, it is like a super powerful thing. This is like- Yeah, this is the zinch ability, right? Right. Like, do you wanna cheat? Cool. Here's how you cheat. Right. And what I like about the celestial warbringer is that it's not triggered to anything. It's not like wind being attacked by a monster. Yeah, sure. It's just generic. And it's not a hero. It's your entire army. There's no range restrictions. There's no anything. It's just once per phase, choose one of those dice that you roll the one on and re-roll. Like- Keep emphasizing every word by smashing your desk. Yeah, stop it. Yeah, I'll try. But I mean, so what I would say is this, there's a lot of these abilities on here that you will not use multiple times a turn. That can't be said for the celestial. Yeah, sure. Sure, there will always be reason to use this. Yes. Yes. That's fair. All right, Tempest Lords. Boy, do I like this one so much. I think this is where you're at too. So Tempest Lords say when you attempt a charge with a friendly Tempest Lords unit that can fly, you can re-roll one of the dice for that charge. I love me a re-roll one of the dice on a charge ability. It's real good. Yeah, this one's super good. I mean, I'm just gonna say it straight out. David, what's your feeling? That's exactly right. That's exactly where my head was at. I love, so there's nothing more frustrating than missing a charge. It's just like one of those things in the game where you get right up to somebody and you're, and you just don't, and nothing happens. And then you get piled into and taken off the table. So I think making your charge is one of the things that I feel most strongly about. I love getting something for free. Like, I hear that. So what, so you're gonna use this on your dragons? You're gonna use this on dragons? Not only. I'll give you another item you can use on, but sure. Okay. Dragons are a vital target for you. Hey, Tom, here's just a quick shout out. Everyone loves dragons and everybody's gonna be running dragons. So I agree. Like, I was thinking about a dragon army. So like, I get it. I do. And this is gonna be like the ability for dragon army, right? But what else are you, what's flying that you're charging that is not a dragon? Prosecutors who are also battle line in this force. Prosecutors who charge 3D6, which lets you pick up the one low dye you roll and do very important things with them as we will get to in a moment, namely stopping Unleashed Hell dead in their tracks. Or catching annoying foxes because now you can land super, like even on 2D6, as Marco said, the median charge goes from a seven to a nine with this ability, with re-rolling on the dice. When you get it on a 3D6, and you can pick out like, you know, how many times have you seen 3D6 where it's like four, five, one, I don't know. Re-roll that one, that becomes a much bigger charge. Okay. But yes, also the prime, who also has his own built-in re-roll and capability to do this. Yndrasta is another one, right? You want a long bomb out and really get in there from a distance. She will get in there a long time. Like, there are many good targets for this, okay? Yeah, I like using it on the prime. I'll use it on the prime and saving his like change for something that does damage, you know? Right, right. Yep. And then finally, Astral Templars, friendly Astral Templars units cannot be picked when your opponent carries out a monstrous rampage. Cool. These guys, by the way, get the Vanguard stuff as their battle line. Like the Vanguard Hunters and Vanguard Paladors. So, cool. I just want to add the Vanguard stuff. What's that? Sorry, I didn't mean to catch up, you ahead. It's neat that they all get Hunter's of the Heartlands. Basically, your whole army has Hunter's of the Heartlands, you're immune to monstrous rampage. It's like, oh, cool, okay, that's a good ability. Yep. Yeah, I like the Vanguard Portion of Stormcast, so I like this as kind of an enabler for that army. And I like that you're kind of, it's themy, and you're turning off a part of the game that's really prevalent right now. Sure. Yeah, I agree. Okay, so the point is, we've got some interesting sub-faction choices there, all of which are enabling a lot of different battle lines, which is cool. There is quite a lot of different battle line in this army that you can get to, so cool. All right, gentlemen, matched play. All right, let me time this out. Now that we're here, boy, did that take a while. So, matched play, GS and battle tactics. All right, let's keep pressing ahead. Grand strats. Bad, bad, amazingly fun to cheat and win with. So, Dracothea in defense. When this battle ends, you complete this grand strategy. If the only heroes, only heroes on the battlefield are friendly, draconist, star, draker, drakoth units. No, terrible, because that includes your heroes, so that means they all have to die too. Sorry, all the other priests and wizards, you're all dead. No. The pillars of victory when the battle ends, you complete this grand strategy. If the only battle line units on the battlefield are friendly, redeemer units. No, stop with these. What, these shouldn't be printed. I've talked about it a million times. This is the biggest mistake they're making in the new books. This is my least favorite thing. Please stop printing these. Why are we doing these? Erase these from the all. If every TO just said, you know what, we're only using the GHB and all of these are cut from existence, I would applaud that TO for their bravery, because I think these are all just bad. And until we get to a world where like, Rob talked about a world where would it be neat if this was the only battle tactics you had or something and we didn't have the GHB ones? Well, sure, that could be interesting. That could be really fun and challenging than the complete battle tactics. You'd see the number drop like a rock of which you could complete, but it's gonna be months and months before we have 25 armies that all have their own battle tactics, even between white dwarf and battle jump releases, right? So like, although I agree that with that world where we cut out the GHB ones and only use these would make for an extremely competitive environment to complete battle tactics, I just don't see it happening anytime soon. And I just wish these weren't here.  Yep. It was a bad choice and I'm never gonna forgive them for this. It's like, I'm never gonna let this go. Well, but I'll be a year from now, a book I'll be reviewing, it'll be in here and I'll be saying the same crap. So anyways, sacred charge. When the battle ends, you complete this grand strategy if there are two or more friendly cities of Sigmar unit on the battlefield. Love it. Love this one.  They're elite, they're super fast, they're relatively easy to hide because they're a tiny thing.  Who decides that's the thing they've gotta do? So 150 points, easier than Predator's domain, easier than keeping your wizards or battle line or anything else alive, free grand strat to gyrocopters. Love it. That's my argument.  So there you go. What do you think of my gyrocopter strat? It's good. I mean, I agree with you. Honestly, this page is where I spent the least amount of time reading. So I don't even know that I've given a lot of thought.  Yeah, I agree. As far as the battle tactics go, here's my honest answer. None of these are in any way, in any way like, none of these are in any way interesting, is what I'll say. Some of them are just straight up bad. Some of them are just harder versions of the existing thing. They're conquer but harder, or destroy the battle line unit but harder, or whatever, right? Because they put more lips on it. And then suddenly there's like two that are pretty decent for draconists and stargrapes. Which is just, they are both pick a monster or pick a battle line unit but harder, but they give you a second version of those. That's it. So if somebody has a lot of battle line and you've got like a star drake or a drakeneth leader, you can be like, oh, all broken ranks. Okay, cool, I killed that battle line unit. Now I'll draconist, draconist destruction. Now I kill that unit. Yay, I get to use broken ranks twice. Fantastic, okay. Marco, did we already say how the Stormkeep keyword, it doesn't have a single interaction in the book? It doesn't though there are interactions. It's just not through the Stormkeep keyword. It's through cities of Sigmar things, which you're clearly in Stormkeep. Like, yes, yes it doesn't, but I mean that's not the take I would give. Like what I'm saying is there are still certainly things you can do. Like if you're Stormkeep and you take cities of Sigmar units, there are interactions of cities of Sigmar units. Now, if there's enough, we could have a discussion about that, but there are interactions, they're just sideways. Just because it doesn't say Stormkeep doesn't mean there's no interaction with the city's units. But that being said, I would have liked to see him throw around more Scions and Stormkeep stuff, certainly. I don't think you're wrong there, okay? All right, Corp Battalions. Yup. These all exist. Next, none of these are better than anything in the Corp book. I thought it was weird that, as many sub-commander units in this army, there are no Italians that use sub-commanders. Weird. There's like 30 of them. Yeah. Yeah. It's bizarre. There's more sub-commanders in Stormcast Eternals than like entire factions have War Scrolls period. Yeah, I think that the answer here is, these also shouldn't exist, and these also are bad. So thanks, you wasted two pages in the middle of an otherwise good battle tone. So, Haiti says Brotherhood Command is good. I disagree. I guess because you can have three large leaders is what you're arguing for. It just gives you strategists, it's an extra command point. I'd still rather just build that list with the basic stuff. Like I'd still rather go Warlord slash Battle Regiment, any day of battle. Warlord slash Battle Regiment, any day of the week, and fit that stuff in. Personal taste. So, okay, cool. All right, let's rock and roll. Let's roll, let's bowl, let's bowl, let's rock and roll. Okay, now it's time gentlemen. We come to the part of the show that we've all been waiting on, the units. Oh yeah, tuck in. Here we go. The Celestin Prime. He's here baby, he's here, it's real now. It's real now. You want to talk about a scroll that got improved. Seven words, seven words. That's what it took. And we made this guy a boss. Did we give him plus one attack? Sure, that's fine. But I of the Celestial Storm, this unit has a ward of four plus. I'm counting that as one word. Amazing how it works. I'm counting four plus as one word. I literally, when you said that, like below the table counted the words on my hands to make sure that that was what you were talking about. Yeah, yeah. Beautiful. No, it's good. Like that's what he needed. Exactly, this is all he needed. Like as soon as I was at it, I was like, I'd feel him now. Totally. This guy's 325 points for the Celestin Prime. Yes. I have all the points on a separate sheet in front of me just so I can reference as we're talking. 325 worth it every day, twice on Sunday, part of a great mortal wound strategy if you're doing the drop and pop. This guy's fantastic. And now he doesn't instantly evaporate. Here. He's great. He's freaking great. And I love him. In a city's army. Yeah, sure. Good ally. Like good in this army, good ally. Yeah. It's nothing bad about this guy. He's not faction locked by the way. Well, in a city's army, he's actually like a coalition. But yeah, that's good. Yep. I'm a fan. He is unique, so he can't take stuff, you know, but he can benefit from sub faction stuff where appropriate. For example, he's a flying unit and when charging, he could choose to re-roll as you earlier mentioned and save his own worry of celestial fates for later stuff. And he's also, so yeah, he's great. Great. I don't know what else to say about him. He's awesome now. I love him. I just took a four up word. So yeah. Four up word and an appropriate price. Like he's been too expensive for a while. So I think this is good. Yep. And he's rent three damage three big old hammer doing work. He still has the annoying, you've got to keep him up in the heavens mechanic, but that's fine. He'll come down in round two with five attacks and that's a perfectly respectable profile. Okay. He has my attention. Yeah, indeed. Krondis. Oh, our big dragon. Big D. Woop. So big D has 18 wounds and a three up save. He has some decent attacks. They're okay. I like to render damage three or two. He has a little, his breath is like all the dragon breath. So I'll read it this time. All dragons breathe in the exact same way from the biggest dragon to the little baby dragons. They all breathe the same way, which is do not use the attack sequence or an attack made with his shooting weapon. Instead, we'll die on a one to two. It's one mortal wound on a three to four D three and on a five to six, it's D six. His tail is number of attacks equal to the number of miles and three inches of him. And both dragons have the ancient master of war where you subtract one from the attacks characteristic of melee weapons that target his unit. That is a heck of a defense right there. That is a pretty strong built-in defense minus one attack. Lots of units rely on multi-attacking. So it's just automatically sapping one of those away for being in melee with them. Yeah, and it's not even like a range. It's like, oh, you have bow attacks. You have two shots model. Awesome, you have one. No, it is only melee weapons that target this. Is it? Yeah, it's melee weapons, yes. Yeah, I know. I wish it was all attacks, but no, it's just melee. For some reason, I thought that that was all attacks. No, I know. Like when we went over it. Yeah, it's just melee. I know, I know. And then importantly, he is also a wizard who is a double caster and he has the regalia of Pullman Terrace giving him a base plus three to cast. It does go down as he gets wounded. His spell does subtract one from hit rolls or minus one to rend or minus one to attacks so he can minus two attacks people if he needs to or minus one to saves. Really good, really strong spell that he'll get off on a six because he has plus three if he's unwounded. Bravery 10, he heals himself quite easily. He has Thunder Strike.  Yeah, I mean, he's only 600 points. Honestly, I think this guy's a steal for 600 points. Honest answer. I'll say this. And my first read was like, he's absolutely not worth 600 points. And I'll tell you what just swung me the other. Oh, okay. Well, no, it just swung me the other direction was I just reread Calamity's Tale. Yes. When I first read it, I read it incorrectly and just now rereading it. Oh my God, it could be amazing. In the right situation, it's kind of like, it's the old Star Drake tale but like a thousand times better. But in that, like, if you fight a single model, it's worthless.  Yeah, absolutely. Because he could, because it's a three inch range and he's on a very big base, right? He's gonna Tokyo drift into a unit or whatever and have a lot of models within range of him. So, yeah. Yep, I agree. I think this guy's great. Honestly, I think 600 is probably a little cheap for him. He does lack of word save, which is a problem, right? He can get focused on by mortals. So we should keep that in mind. But at the same time, he is a very strong double caster with a decent melee profile, a good shooting attack and a very versatile spell. Yeah. Right? Because that's like, the fact that he has a spell that he can just point at somebody and go, neg one save, right? It means that effectively he can make himself red three if he needs to. Yeah, right. My pushback is that because he's not good against single models, not as good against single models. Sure. He's gonna handicap you in those armies against like suns or something because you're dedicating 600 points of your army and you know suns are gonna be at everywhere in a tournament. So he's gonna handicap the amount of weight you can bring to bear against those big giants. Even if you are taken away with their save, you only have 1400 points of your army and 600 points of it isn't gonna do the work. That's just the, you know, the counterpoint. It's an excellent point. But if he sends all those attacks into one of those targets. It's only okay. His damage profile is decent, but it doesn't work out amazing. No, it's not great. Yeah, it's okay. He's not like, he's not a pillow, but he's also not his brother. Like his brother has a much higher damage profile. I like him. I like him a lot. Yeah, I agree. Like he shouldn't be the same points as his brother. That's what I'll say. Like there's no way these guys are actually the same points. This was just dart at the wall. Like this guy should probably be 650. The brother should probably be like 500, 530, something like that is actually how it should be. Speaking of his brother, Karazai or Scar as we all like to call it. Same 18 wounds, three up save, blah, blah, blah. As per usual, by the way, all these new monsters only have four things on their damage table. That is worth mentioning that all the new monsters only have four charts. Like I mentioned that in the last show, but it's worth mentioning here again. And the initial wound count has been set much higher, which is great. I'm glad to see that. So that's a good thing. Thank you. Karazai, not a wizard. And he's just a better melee guy. Same ancient master of war, same blazing tempest, same calamitous tale. The difference is he has six attacks with his jaws and they're at rend three instead of rend two, which I mean is actually quite a big difference. And then he has this little RPG game he's playing where each time he destroys a unit, you can basically, based on what he destroys, he can get bonuses.  And like good Lord does that do a lot of work for him. So every time he kills a hero or a monster, he gets significantly scarier because it's plus one attack to all three profiles. I kind of wish that the breath weapon was better on the things in comparison to the little dragons. It's weird that they're the same, right? Yeah, apparently they're all the same fire.  So I guess. Yeah, he's still burned. Wait, hold on one second.  Her big dragon killed an army. I mean, fair. You're not wrong. You're not wrong. That's also a fair point. I guess, well, he got a little bigger and then he was still blowing stuff up, right? My point was there was a range there, but sure. Okay. Yeah, I mean, cars I should be cheaper than his brother. Like there's, again, we've said it. This is where I go to like the old, my main problem with this book is that is point related. Like some things are a bit too cheap.  Car as I is too expensive. Krondis is too cheap. They need to like scoot apart, right? Sure. Krondis is that cheap. I think car as I has definitely too expensive, but I think Krondis, yeah, because of his lack of a word save, he's just a target thing it picked out. Yeah, it's a fair point. How much does that word matter?  That is a cost. You may be right. I don't know. I think I would like him better at like 620, maybe 650, somewhere in that range. It's just, he's good. He's strong.  He's clearly a very impactful force on the battlefield, right? The difference is that Marathi and GoTrek can't die. This is a good point. Yeah. You're not wrong there. He's eminently killable, right? You shoot, if 40 Centinels shoot at him, he's probably dead. Right. Dante said we can't get even a little discussion regarding the anvil's ability. I think it's pretty cool. My argument is no. I think it's bad because you're rolling 2D6 against Bravery. And as somebody who plays Slanesh and has lots of abilities that are 2D6 against Bravery, it is a, it's a nothing burger of a thing, man. I'm sorry. The number of things in this game that are Bravery 9 and 10 is way too high. You fighting a lot of Seraphon, they're Bravery 10. You fighting anything in Death, they're all Bravery 10. You fighting anything in Chaos, they're all Bravery 10. Like more than 50% of this game for what people actually play is Bravery 10. And 2D6 against that is just nothing. It's impossible. So like it's cool you can use the ability against Destruction sometimes, sometimes. Sometimes. It will often just be like Bravery 6 or 7. But, you know, yeah. Even 2D6 is not guaranteed to be over a 6, right? No, it's actually not a, no, no, not at all. It's still about a 40% chance of failure, a little more than. So, you know, like it's a cool designed ability in what it's trying to do, but it's just, it's so badly written. They need to stop doing that 2D6 against Bravery thing. It's like they don't understand the probability curve on 2D6 because it's just, it doesn't work against the way it works. There's 3D6 maybe. If it was 3D6, totally different story. Totally different story. Okay. Yundrasta, she's what she was before. She was good before, she's still good now. Yundrasta is now 320. Feels absolutely correct. I wanna put her and the Prime in an army. That's what I wanna do. I wanna both. I want it all. I want both of my angels. And I want them just being awesome together. They'd be pretty awesome. Yeah, right? I mean, they're both super sweet and then we're gonna put it right in Tempest Lords where all of a sudden I can re-roll charged dice with these guys. So yeah, cool. And Yundrasta good, right? That's what we're all saying. Yes. I mean, that's, that has been universally true, yes. Yes. Okay, great. I thought we'd all agree, just making sure. All right, Lord Commander Madass. Excuse my language, but he earns the title. So Lord Commander Bastion Carthalos, the Lord Commander of the Hammers of Sigmar. He is a Hammers of Sigmar locked unit. Eight wounds, three up save. This dude has some abilities. Four attacks, threes and twos. Neg two, rend four damage. A hammer that would make a giant's club look weedy in response, but this dude's more utility than just damage. Once per turn in your hero phase, you can pick one enemy unit on the battlefield and roll a number of dice equal to the wounds characteristic of that unit. For each six, they suffer one mortal wound. Fun, just because it's anywhere.  So that's fun. But it is good for just doing a couple of mortal wounds and slash damage to a monster. Castellan of Aesir after, at the start, the first battle round after determining who has the first turn. But before the first turn begins, you can pick up the D three friendly Hammers of Sigmar units on the battlefield and set them up again. Oh, boy. You're giving a thumbs up to that one, David. Tell me why you love that so much, because I love it. It's great. It's just a bait and switch, right? I mean, you can, I think it was, wasn't this old Tempest Lords back in? Yeah, I think Tempest Lords did this, yeah, before. Yeah. That was an underplayed, you know, army back then. But I think this, I love this guy, he's awesome. But I think it's just such a good ability. You can make, you can fake out your opponent or put yourself in a better position if you think you're going to take the first turn. Yeah, you can also sneak things up into the heavens or down. Yeah. Depending on how you do it, because you can redeploy them. So you could like pull them up or pull them down, right? Yeah. You can also, like, I just love this ability so much, right? It also lets you cheat if you're in a one drop, because like part of the downside to a one drop is that your opponent then gets to react to your deployment.  Where's the lady? Oh, they're over here now. You're not getting the matchups you want anymore. Jerk. So that's great. Vessel of Tempest, War to Four Up. So again, this dude is also super tough. He, Voice of Thunder, once per turn, he can issue a command to a Hammers of Sigmar unit anywhere on the battlefield without a command point being spent. Incredible, 10 free, unlimited range command points every game. And Mantle of the First Storm at the end of any phase. If any enemy models were slain by wounds caused by this unit's attacks in that phase, you can heal all wounds allocated to this unit. So if you don't kill any heals, he is a hard guy to bring down. That is for sure. So Lord Commander here is 300 points even. And in my estimation, he earns it. Yeah. He's a little, I mean, he doesn't have the mobility. Sure. So I think that's a knock on him. But really, I mean, he's awesome. He has my attention. Yep. Like, when I look at him, I go, yeah, that sticks up on your objectives. I can work with that. Sure. I mean, there's a couple of things involving the Hammers, right? Like, yeah, some of the Dracotian Guard we'll talk about later. You'll be like, okay, all right. Okay. You have my attention. That was my one knock. I'm in to say that.  It bothers me. Because the Hammers, the Hammers are my women's favorite faction. I don't like it. But I think you can take him in a different storm hose, right? He just doesn't get the benefits of the storm hose. Yeah. So I mean, there's that. He just couldn't apply his D3 ability only works on Hammers and Sigmar units. As does his D3 ability. Yes. Both of those are locked to Hammers. Yeah. Okay. Never mind. I mean, you have to take them in those armies. Yeah, I didn't see that. His model's sweet though. He is. I mean, like, if for some reason you were going to make a Lord Celestin, which you're not because they're terrible, we'll get to it. You're like, this is, this would be the model you actually wanted to use, not the regular Lord Celestin. So that's fine. You don't like Hammerclaw? I do not. Gartus's looks okay. That's because of his pose. Vandus Hammerhand, our old buddy, our old friend from the beginning. He shuttled us into the addition. This is a good example. Part of his old commandability just became a normal ability he has now, where do not take Battleshock desks for friendly Hammers of Sigmar units wholly within 24 inches of this unit. So just period all the time now. No need to use a command point. It just happens. He can also pick Hammers of Sigmar Redeemer units wholly within 12 and add one to the attacks characteristic. So if you're running Hammer's Redeemer build, which I think is perfect, like a good choice by the by, because then your Redeemer's sitting on the objectives, which is what you're wanting to do, are getting ward saves and kicking back. And now things like Vendictors can actually be at three attack space, which now we're getting somewhere, right? So, yeah, he's fine. He's a reasonably good choice. 215 points, by the way, for a nine-loom three-up save guy, so. Yeah, I like him a lot. Yeah. The Battleshock community is huge. I agree. Yeah. It's just a giant bubble, right? Like it's absolutely massive. And that's the most one to save on the unit like sequiturs or something. I mean, they can get pretty punchy. Yeah, absolutely. Yeah, we'll talk about Secces and Vendictors later and like both of them can have some good offense. So, yep. They're more attrition grindy units, but they can give a little punch. They give some fight. Okay. A Ventus Fire Strike, the Magister of Hammer Hall. Okay. Yep, he's a double caster. His little stick is Ren too. That's fun. He has this plus one to hit ability that the normal guy also has. A Ventus, by the way, in addition to being unique is 325 points. He's on a Torlon, 14-inch move, 12 wounds. No word save. He has a heal and he's bad. I don't know what else to say. That anybody could defend this, dude? No. Okay. I mean, Comet Trail is better. Are you sure? It is, yes, but you can also get it on the normal guy, cheaper. Yeah, no, yeah. Yes, I don't agree, I don't disagree. He's bad. Right. It's shame because I wish he would have been good because he can be a general. You can actually take him as your general in cities of Sigma armies. Because he's a coalition unit that actually allows you to get your heal hours. You break the rules and be a general. Anyways, Astria Soulbright, another, I hate all these Hammers and Sigma characters that we gotta plow through, but whatever. She has the whole cycle to storm. She can reroll charges at the start of the combat phase. She can pick a friendly Hammers and Sigma sacrosanct unit and add one to save rolls for attacks made with melee weapons that target that unit, which is a good ability. That is a good ability. Let's just go ahead and credit where credit. And her spell is pretty bad because it is the shortest range thing in the universe. Astria is 195 points. Not bad. She's not that expensive, honestly. But I mean, that's what the normal guy is, right? Like the non-rained one. Yes, well, we'll get to it, we'll get to it. But yeah, I mean, she's, I don't see her. Here's my answer. Yes, we'll get to the generic one. And I think the generic one is where you wanna go. I mean, I think, okay, real quick, just in one real quick note, she could do Mystic Shield and the Soul Energy the first hose and give one unit plus two to save or two units plus one to save. That's pretty good. That is true. It's absolutely true.  She's like, anybody that has on their scroll, click a button and give somebody plus one to save. Yeah. Is not, that's- Well, actually those cats, like the cats already are on the floors. And so she like, she's gonna wanna, well, I was gonna say she wants to run with cats, but actually she doesn't because she doesn't have the generic wound bonus for other cats. Right. Right. Yeah. Yeah, I don't know.  It's a lot of points. She is relatively tough. Like she is on a three up save, but again, no word. So it's like- Yeah. Okay. It is probably a skip. Who's targeting her? Yeah, it's a fair point, sure. Yeah. Garda Steel Soul, old baby, he got better. Not as good as he should be, but he got better. So this is better than the travesty that was his last scroll. Yeah. And this model is supremely awesome. So whatever. Five inch move, six wounds, three up save. Hey, he fixed his armor. No more, does he have a four up save? He's down to the three up.  His Runeblade Warhammer, this is the first time I'll mention it. He now has the standard, like Lord level stat attack profile. Yeah. So the standard Stormcast Lord level character is now five attacks, threes, threes, neg one, two damage. That's just, you're gonna see that stat block repeated. A lot. Okay. And he's 160 points now. So he did go up, but his aura of purity gives all friendly Hollowed Knights unit, holy within 12 of him, a ward of five plus. Whoa, way better. Like awesome, amazing, fantastic, love it. Yes. Including him, by the way. Like obviously he has a Hollowed Knight and gives it to himself. And so if he's destroyed on a two plus, he fights before he's removed from play, fine. And then Saintly Assault, if you have other Hollowed Knights heroes when he charges, he can give them all plus one attack. So if you're running a hero heavy thing, he can actually force multiply them out pretty good. Not a command point, by the way, thing. Just a thing he can do once for you. I love him. Yeah, he's good. And I love that they're aware in the art of the hero pose, the hero landing. Yeah, yeah. And so they model him in a crater. Yeah, yeah. Tree. Like they put his base in a crater. It makes me giggle. Yeah, I'm down. Like all of mine are basically already painted to be like Hollowed Knights or some variant of Hollowed Knights. And so I saw this and I'm like, I'm happy with this. I'm in. Yeah. Like I have no problem. A good word save that he passes out and a good ability to force and multiply other heroes nearby. And we up his attack profile and fixed his same. Great. He's doing everything that I would want him to do. Right. He's good. He's so much better than the regular Lord Celestant for like 30 points more, even though he has faction locked. It's shocking. It's shocking. Okay, the Lord Celestant on Star Drake, our big old Star Drake hero. Tom, I'm gonna kick to you on this one first after I give the basics here. Because you've always loved the Lord Celestant on Star Drake. 18 wounds, three ups saved, nine bravery. Again, better wound chart. Now you know, zero to eight. Better wounds. Yeah, yep. Better wounds. Better wounds and better chart. Yes, a hundred percent. Still has like the hammer or the blade.  I would probably honestly take the hammer because I know that because Ren too is pretty good in this game. He still adds to casting rolls for wizards. That subtracts one for enemy casting rolls. He can still do his cavernous draws trick and eat people. His Thunder Shield is the unmodified save roll for an attack made with a melee weapon that targets this unit is six. The attacking unit suffers one more to wound after all attacks have been resolved. It's the exact same language as the other one, Tom, by the way that we mentioned earlier. Yeah, but it's not like, I hear that. The question is, is it an effect that triggers on six? Because if that is the case, then Archeon's old like reroll six's ability, like if you have a buff and they have a buff, somebody would get to choose which one. There are, well, a lot of those things got removed, but the trick is that it doesn't clash if one is on the final roll and one is on an unmodified roll. There's a sequencing to it. I did a show about it. It's fine. Like sometimes they clash, sometimes they don't as the answer. Yeah. And then once per battle, this unit can issue a command to a friendly storm cast eternal as a unit, a holy within 12 without a command point being spent. Okay. The Lord's Celestant on Star Drake, this big boy. He is 500 points, Tom. Five, honey. Straight up quarter your army. Where are you living on this guy? Is he worth it? Is he good? Did we get there? I really struggle with him now. Losing reroll ones to save is a really big deal. Sure. Sure. I took him over the, the, the Templar because of the reroll ones to save. Sure. Because he needs to be an Anvil. And I'm just not sure that he is now. Rain of Stars is also weaker and that, and that makes my soul hurt. It is. Yes. It's not just like anywhere on the battlefield. It's not just a shooting. It's not mortal wounds. Right. It's not just, it's not straight. It's just a shooting attack with nectri-rend. Yeah. Right. And so- Wait, real quick. In favor of Rain of Stars, you can unleash hell with it now. Also true. Also true. True. I don't hate that. Um, I don't know. I'm really mixed on this guy. It makes me sad, but like I want him to be better than he is. For 500. What's your feeling? Okay. Today in our local chat, we've had lots of debate on the Star Drake. I've gone up and down on him because I also have a Star Drake that I've lovingly converted and modeled and it bones me out that he's not better than he is. I don't think he's terrible, but they made decisions that I just don't understand. So he used to have a command, they removed all command abilities. That's fine. I'm fine with that. But he had a command ability that only targeted Drakoff and whatever Star Drakes basically. Right. And it was terrible. It was bad. No one ever used it. It was awful. Right. But they just added dragons formally to Stormcast and they removed his ability. It's like, what? Why? Like the one time that ability would finally be actually used, it's gone. And so it doesn't make much sense to me. His sword used to be able to spike and now it's just boring and bad. You know, I think in favor of the Star Drake though. So those are just a couple of things that I just didn't understand.  But in favor of, or just, yeah, I don't know, or kind of similar to the tail that the other dragons have or something. I don't know. But in favor of the Star Drake, I think he's a prime candidate for the Arcane Tome because he can buff himself and give him plus one to cast. So that's it. And so giving him flaming weapons is interesting. But the thing I think that sticks out to me is the cavernous jaws in 3.0 is stronger than it ever was before because you can remove champions from units and so they can't issue command abilities themselves. Right. So if you go, it's always been good, but in this edition, I think it's better than ever. And so I think that's pretty valuable. He also makes the baby dragons battle line.  There are mount traits, there are command traits you can give to him.  And suddenly he's like 18 wounds on a three up, five up, that's a whole different profile. Like instantly that's a completely different profile, right? In what it's achieving. So, you know, I think he's maybe a little bit over-costed. He's never been the damage machine. And I feel like we could have pushed a little bit more damage on him, honestly. That's I think the one thing I'm sad about. He's not quite as offensive as he should be for what this model is. For 500. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, I mean, that's what I would say. But again, he can be super tough, right? Like you have Celestial Menagerie, so he's nagged one to wound all the time. He has the amulet on him. He can have the retreat and charge mount trait, so he can leave combat he doesn't want to be in and just go attack somebody else. You know, like he's got game.  Correct. If he's over, he's probably just not quite as offensive as we'd want him to be for what he is. No, that's been the case with Star Drake forever, which is it's irritating, it's still the case. Yeah. I think the issue is you can get two of the Hero Baby Dragons, what is it? What is it called? The Night Draconess. What is it? You can get two of them for like what, 20 points more? And they are. The Night Draconess is 255, so it's 10 points more. Yeah, they're objectively better than he is. Right.  There's also downsides to that. I don't disagree with you and that's when we get to the three dragons, the Night Draconess and then his little baby dragons, one of the big problems with this book right now is they're under pointed. I mean, that's just, I'll give the game away now. They're under pointed for what they are. Like just absolutely, clearly, fantastically under pointed. And happily, that's an easy problem to fix, right? Like there's nothing fundamentally wrong with this guy's scroll. Knock him down 25 points or something like that, 30 points. I'm a lot happier with him. Knock the, the Night Draconess up 30, 40 points at least. Suddenly we're having a completely different discussion, right? But that's the kind of moves you need to make. We just didn't dial in the points exactly, right? But that's okay. That could be fixed this winter, you know? Right, very quickly. Yeah. All right, Gav, Gabriel Sherhart. Well, he doesn't, he's not sure charge anymore. That's fine. He has, he has the standard storm cast attack profile. He has once more for Sigmar charge, which lets him re-roll charge rolls for this unit in addition once per turn. He can issue the forward to victory command to hammer as a Sigmar units without a command point being spent and he has the Thunder Shield. Yep. So moving on because we're not taking him anymore. No one's ever going to run him. And that's fine. Keep moving. Yeah, he's 130 points. Next. Okay, Nave Black Talon should make sure, sure does make a lot of attacks with those axes that aren't going to do anything. Cool model. I mean, what I'll say is this, I love the teleporting. Yeah, but I'd rather take the generic one, not the named one. That's the problem. I agree, I agree. No, no, no, I don't disagree with that. Yeah. Share her like extra two attacks or whatever are like. Nope. Nope. So that's fine. Skip, she's 120 points by the way. All right, Lord Arcade, I'm on Toralon. Let's see if I can defend this guy. Here we go. All right, this is going to be a tough one, but I'm ready. Okay, okay. 14 inch move, 12 wounds, three have saved nine bravery. His little eighth or staff has only rend one as opposed to the Magister of Hammerhole. And, you know, he doesn't do a lot of damage. He's a single cast wizard. None of these things are good things I'm saying so far. I promise I'll get to the defense. He's 285 points. Okay, comet trail. After this unit has made a normal move, add one to hit rolls for attacks made by friendly storm cast, Eternals and cities of Sigmar units within three inches of this unit until your next hero phase. So he lands, he gives them the buff to anybody around him and it just rides. They can then go charge away, do whatever they want. Okay. Now, he also has cycle to storm and he also has lightning orb, which is just a little mortal wound splash thing. Okay, he is a little too expensive. All right, but he is a more mobile, tougher by far, per economy. That's my argument. Okay, because obviously it's not holy within three. He just needs to touch the base of one guy in the unit and he gives that whole unit plus one to hit just by moving around and landing.  Like he's tougher. He's far more mobile. He can fly. He's faster. He buffs cities units as well, which is cool. So if you are using storm keeps and have brought in some cool cities units, he can give them plus one to hit as well as your storm cast. The hurricane doesn't work the opposite way, right? Like it's not gonna affect your storm cast dudes. He does.  Like no joke. That's amazing, all right? But that is a on an aura on a fairly fragile unit and that aura can shrink real fast. You know, he doesn't lose. He doesn't have a monster chart. He is a monster. He does not have a monster chart. So his 14 inch move is locked. He's got one wound. He can still move his max move, drop in, give the plus one to many units. Okay? So in my book, he should be about 260, 265. He needs to be about 20, 25 points cheaper than where he is. But I think he's interesting mainly because of comet trail.  You can still like have a couple of guys tailing out a little bit, land, get that unit, that unit, that unit, boom. I think it's pretty cool. What do you think? Have I at least made a sort of case for him? I don't know. I get, I have a hard time getting excited about him. I mean, for his points costs right now, I just, what is it, 285 right now? 285, yeah. Yeah, I just think of other things I can get for 285. That is fair. That is fair. That's what I'm saying. He needs to be a little cheaper. But I think he's got potential. Move his nice points down. He used to be a double caster, didn't he? Yeah, he did, yeah. That's a real shame. It is. I, like, because what's his, the name don't instill a double caster. This guy's not. Yeah. I like that he, that he buffs city's units. I mean, that's, that's interesting for like a city's a sigma army. Yeah, sure. Sure. Hey, he said the silence was deafening. Yeah. I don't think I sold him. I don't think I sold him. It's really just how valuable is plus one to hit, right? And I don't know that it's fine. Plus one, it's pretty good. It's very good. I must say it's, I'm just saying, is it 285 points valuable? I mean, people spend 280 on a Huracanum and that's often what it ends up doing. Huracanum blasts above the table. Yeah. It often also storms people. Yep. Unless you're like me, where you love rolling ones on your storm or shem tech. But yes. Okay. I agree he's weaker than he probably should be for his points cost. But again, I feel like this guy, there is a right points cost where he could be interesting. It's not that far off is my argument. So, Markham is a potential future. How about that? Lord Celestant on Dracoth. Okay. This guy has a lot of rules.  It doesn't matter. He has his storm blast. All of the Dracoths have a unified storm blast now. I'll explain that right here. Do not use the attack sequence for a storm blast.  It's nice because it's just one target. Four up, can't be given neg one to hit or anything like that. It's just, you roll a die, it happens. All of the Dracoths do that. And he can issue all our command for free once per battle to storm cast units. Seven wounds, three ups, nine bravery. The Lord Celestant on Dracoth, 215 points. What's your feeling? There's just so many units. Yeah. Sure. Like we're running, we're running out of steam here. Oh, we got so many more guys.  For me, it's just that like I look at this guy and I'm just like, why? Like there's other things I would run and set in. Yeah. Sure. It's fair. It's a fair answer. Like that's what I struggle with with a lot of these. Vandas is the same points cost? Vandas is the same points cost, yes. But I mean, Vandas is locked in hammers, right? So, I mean, if you were in hammers, there'd be no reason you'd ever take the generic one if you're outside hammers, then maybe something different. I do think he could be interesting in a redeemer build, like I said, with the six inch pylon trait, right? Where he's just bouncing around and pitting. That storm strike glaive, is that with the impaling strike on the charge is really good. It is really good, yeah. Five attacks, three, three, snag two, goes to three damage on the charge. Yeah, yeah. Like, he's got a decent attack profile.  I mean, you're not wrong. I'm really not far off. I mean, he's certainly better than 50% of a Star Drake. Okay, let's keep going. Baboom, Lord Arcanum on Celestial Dracolene. So this is one of the people we talked about previously. The Lord Arcanum on Celestial Dracolene. Where the heck is this idiot? 200 points. So that's what we're dealing with here. Eight wounds, three up save, nine bravery. Basically nothing in melee, because it doesn't matter. Built-in rear roll charge has the pack alpha thing. Add one to the attacks characteristic of monstrous claws. Used by friendly Dracolene units, holy within 18 inches of this army. So good, or sorry, of this unit. And Storm Lance is a spell cast of five, range of 12. If successfully cast, pick one upon the battlefield and range invisibly cast or draw a straight line between that point and the closest part of this base for each enemy unit passed across by that line on a four plus, they take D3 mortals.  I mean, that's the reason you use this guy. That beginning and end of dis