Good evening, viewers, and we thank you again for joining us tonight. We would like to begin this session with a word of prayer. Let's believe and pray. Our eternal Father, we come to you with thanksgiving tonight. And Lord, in places that we do not know, may you help us to be wise. May you teach us, Lord, all that we ought to be. In Jesus' name we pray. Amen. We will have our song service beginning with song number 112, and brother Charles Muridi will start us off with song number 112. Let us with glad some mind. Sons and daughters of the Most High, let us worship the Lord together with this song. Let us with a glad some mind song number 112. Let us with a glad some mind. Praise the Lord for He is kind. For His mercy shall endure. Ever faithful, ever shoo. Praise Him, praise Him. For He the commanding might fill the new made world. For His mercy shall endure. Ever faithful, ever shoo. He does feed. His full hand supplies. Then His mercy shall endure. Ever faithful, ever shoo. Let us then with a glad some mind. Praise the Lord for He is kind. For His mercy shall endure. Ever faithful. Amen. Thank you, brother Charles. As we continue with the worship service, the song service, we will go to song number 291. We have not known thee. We have not known thee. Have not known thee as we ought. Norland, thy wisdom, grace, and power. The things of earth have filled our thought and travels of the passing. Our Lord give us light, thy truth to see and make us wise in it the as we ought. Nor about beneath thine awful or God that did and thought reaming that God was nigh. Lord give us through and through with thee to fill the nose out thee as we ought. The battles lost us costly one. Lord give the zeal and give them for thee too tall, for thee too far. When shall we know thee all brought? Be perfect team of light. Lord may we day by day prepare to see thy face and serve thee there. Give us and good evening church on behalf of the leadership of Narebi Central SDE church. I would like to welcome each and every one of you to this program this evening. Today is the fifth day of the Stewardship Revival Week. Indeed we have been blessed for the days that have passed and will continue to be blessed even today by the words and the messages that God has sent His servant to come and share with us.  Indeed the program is there tomorrow as well until the Sabbath and the man servant that God has sent to be able to share His word during this service is none other than Pastor William Bagambe. Indeed the man servant has been given the words to come and deliver for our sake. Indeed God Himself knows that we need to be saved and that's why He keeps sending His messengers to come and remind us that He's soon sending His son to come and take us home. Be blessed as you continue to enjoy and to participate in this program today and we trust and do believe that you'll have a change and a reflection in your life so that you can be a child of God and more so become a son or a daughter of God Himself. Welcome. Good evening brethren. Our scripture reading this evening comes from the book of Luke 19 and verse 4 and I read Let's pray. We thank you many father for being good to us. Indeed we are grateful because you've been there for us. You've been with us. You've led us this far. We come before these your children knowing very well that we are not worthy of anything unless we are with you. Unless we allow you into our lives unless we let you be the guide and the leader of our lives we are not counted as anything but in your presence and with your love that you keep sharing with us and showering us with each day you bring a difference of who will become as your children are going to listen to the word this evening we ask that you send thy spirit to help them understand help them be able to appreciate the words that you want to share with them through your servants guide them so that they can be able to know you know what you desire of them each day continue to help them and to support them for they can only be who you want them to be with your help. We come before our heavenly father knowing that indeed you mean well for us despite the challenges of this world that we experience you are always ready to support us as your man servant is going to share the word for the bread of life this evening we ask that you use him we use him in a much way so that he can be able to reach many that may be knowing you already and also those may not be knowing you so that they can have a different experience of who you are to them support us each day even those who are sick those who have challenges in their lives wherever they are please reach them and make them know you as you prepare each and every one of us for thy kingdom that you prepared enable us to journey together with one another and with you too so that we can be able to reach that destiny together be with us now and forever more for we ask all this believing and trusting in Jesus name praise the Lord brother and sisters wherever you are you are welcome once again to this program where we are looking at our series God is Washed by the Wise tonight we are moving ahead and I want to thank our elder who has welcomed us so much our sister who read the scriptures our pianist and all crew that is making sure that everything moves as scheduled we want to look at something very interesting this evening and I want us to read the text that was read by our sister as we get into our study Luke chapter 19 verse 4 has this to say and so he ran ahead and climbed a sikamo fig tree to see him since Jesus was coming that way it is very interesting already by this text as I read again you may pick something for you and so he ran who is running of course the kias so he ran ahead climbed a sikamo tree to see him see who Jesus since he was coming that way he did not climb any tree he climbed the right tree and so the topic of our study is climb the right tree those of us who are writing climb the right tree tonight we are calling upon to one of us to climb the right tree so that is our topic since we started last Sunday we have been looking at wise people until yesterday we looked at the three wise men from the east that gave to Christ frankinsis, maa and gold we looked at Abraham who gave his son Isaac to God we looked at Hannah who gave Samuel to the Lord and until yesterday when we looked at a very sad story of the rich man who started intelligently but finished foolishly he lost position to eternal life and headed for his wealth we don't want to take that route brothers and sisters he walked out of eternal life and so tonight let us look at another rich man by the name of Zaccheus and let us determine his intelligence let's see how he behaved let's also ask ourselves do all rich men behave the same before the Lord? let's see as you know we find a story in Luke chapter 19 Luke chapter 19 writes this story we know brothers and sisters those of you who are listening and watching from everywhere you know the story that for sure I know but one thing I can promise you is that you don't know what the Lord is going to speak to you tonight so please sit back relax and listen to what the Lord has for you in this talk tonight the Bible says Luke chapter 19 verse 1 starts in a very interesting way the Bible says Jesus entered Jericho and he was passing away he was just passing no no not passing away but passing through Jesus entered Jericho and was passing through when you read that statement alone Jesus has no intention of staying in Jericho but follow this story properly you see what is going to happen please notice Jesus had no itinerary of staying at Jericho he was just passing through his passing through was a blessing enough for those who care to see this week he is passing through the Jericho of your heart grab the chance please yes he passed Jericho at that time but this week he is passing through the Jericho of your heart can you grab the chance verse 19 starts in a very interesting way Jesus entered Jericho and was passing through verse 2 a man was there by the name of Zaccheus he was a chief tax collector and was wealthy this man we are talking about is a rich man this man we are talking about wanted to see Jesus at least verse 3 he wanted to see who Jesus was but because he was short he could not see over the crowd and so as for he ran ahead and climbed a sycamore fig tree to see him since Jesus was coming that way in other words he looked at Jesus and determined the direction Jesus was taking and he climbed that tree that was on the direction of Jesus is not a question of climbing any tree brothers it must be on the way of Jesus like we said Jesus was passing through a man was there by the name of Zaccheus he was a chief tax collector and was wealthy this man is wealthy and you know when the bible says the man was short be sure the man was short indeed when the bible says the man was handsome you can be sure he was handsome and so when the bible says Zaccheus was wealthy he must have been wealthy rich man he was he wanted to see who Jesus was but because he was short he could not see over the crowd Zaccheus came with his mind on Jesus when you observe and check the intention of Zaccheus for sure Zaccheus wanted this man called Jesus yes he was rich yes he was exposed but this time he was looking for Jesus Christ Zaccheus was a chief tax collector he was an officer he had an office and staff many people worked under him he had power to hire and fire when he arrived in a place people knew who had arrived he knew money and money knew him he knew property and property knew him I am talking about who Zaccheus was Zaccheus was financially independent financial independence was all around him and he did understand it and the world understood it he shook financial territories he was no longer looking for money but money was looking for him he had the financial networks and there are items one could not get without Zaccheus signature we are not talking of a street boy here brothers and sisters we are not talking of a simple man here we are talking of a man who when he stood in spite of his height he lived his height alone man is not measured by height man is measured by what is capable of doing and so all that not withstanding this day this time Zaccheus took a decision to look for Jesus hallelujah at least he took a decision yes he had an office yes he had subjects yes he had money yes he had fame yes he had everything you can mention in fact when Zaccheus passed in the road you even tell who was passing he knew what life was all about but in spite of all this in fact all that not withstanding this day this time he took a decision to look for Jesus am interested in that statement he took a decision that day to look for Jesus Christ brothers and sisters we need to get to a level like this where in spite of what we have and in spite of what we are we must learn to focus on Jesus Christ brothers and sisters when you look at this very important state is this not spiritual intelligence we have been talking about the whole week oh yes it is God is worshiped by the wise at this time Zaccheus is not thinking as a tax collector at this time Zaccheus is not thinking like anyone else at this time he has changed the focus he is not even thinking about his wealth at this time Zaccheus is thinking about Jesus Christ he took time for Jesus it takes wisdom to do this my friends how I wish we pick a leaf from this tax collector in the names of Zaccheus you will be a true steward of the Lord only when you set time aside for Jesus Christ if you can do this like Zaccheus did then all other stewardship obligations will follow through Zaccheus was not in office when you check this story properly when you critically audit it you will discover Zaccheus was not in his office at this time actually his office was closed because at that time no one would be in two places at the same time is not like today but even if you are on zoom or on YouTube you are there online so it is difficult to be in two places at the same time physically so Zaccheus right here he is looking for Jesus Christ Zaccheus has changed his schedule instead of going to collect taxes he is now busy looking for Jesus Christ he has joined the crowd and he is right there in the crowd things have changed I like the thinking of Zaccheus at this time I don't know how about you actually his office was closed because at that time he was looking for Jesus Christ and I want to tell you if the tax collection in Jericho solely depended on the presence of Zaccheus that day there was no tax collection because the guy was not there tax payers must have enjoyed at least a one day tax holiday we begin to look for Jesus Christ there are some people who will benefit this time Zaccheus's office is not open how I wish we could close some offices for Jesus Christ when focus is put on Jesus there are some people who will benefit like I told you he wanted to see who Jesus was but because you are short he could not see over the crowd this is what the Bible tells us he could not see Jesus because he was short this is what the Bible says but when this verse is subjected to deeper scrutiny and analysis you will arrive at a deeper discovery that while it was true the man was short that must not have been the reason for not seeing Jesus I see among us here we have short people if we had chance we would have at least ask them is it true that short people don't see do you begin blaming your height because you have not seen Jesus are you going to blame the crowd because you have not seen Jesus Christ please tell us short people don't you see can you say you have not seen what you are supposed to see spiritually because of your height let's say if he was 2 feet on the ground if Zacchaeus was 2 feet on the ground what was his height in the tree does it change I mean measure Zacchaeus on the ground and the man is 2 feet follow the same Zacchaeus in the tree what is his height he will still be 2 feet he cannot see on the ground when he is 2 feet but he can see in the tree when he is still 2 feet do you still continue blaming his height no the problem doesn't seem to be that he was short please don't blame your height for not seeing Jesus Christ don't blame your spouse for not seeing Jesus Christ don't blame your pastor for not seeing Jesus Christ you can see Jesus Christ when you are short you can see Jesus Christ when you are tall you see Jesus Christ when you are white you can see Jesus Christ as long as your intelligence is right that's all you need the real challenge Zacchaeus was facing was where he was standing and you can see how Zacchaeus handled it beloved of God we stop blaming our height stop blaming the environment stop blaming your pastor stop blaming your members stop blaming everybody around you for your spiritual condition when it comes to spirituality the matter is personal don't be unfaithful and then begin blaming the people around you check where you are standing when you look at Zacchaeus for sure Zacchaeus was short that is true but when you are short you must know where to stand where are you standing I mean where you are standing will determine what you will see you can't be in the valley and expect to see things on top of the mountain that doesn't happen many of us are still in the valley of unfaithfulness that's why we cannot see the secrets of God even picking spiritual messages is hard why they come from above and we are deep down in the valleys of sin so brothers and sisters as you listen to this message check where you are standing don't blame your height check where you are standing don't blame your fellow human beings check where you are standing don't blame the crowd check where you are standing where are you standing beloved of God you cannot stand anywhere and expect to work with God you have to stand in the right place to get righteousness because righteousness is never obtained from any other part of your position except in the right place raise your spiritual body this time my brothers and sisters and learn to stand in the right place how Zakias handled it was quite different see how he handled it look at his intelligence the bible says chapter 19 of the book of Luke verse 4 like our sister read then tells us this so this is how Zakias handled the situation some of us may think he was very very short yes he was short yes he was short the bible says but look at the way he did verse 4 the bible says he ran ahead and climbed a sikamo fig tree to see him since Jesus was coming that way he did not notice here he climbed the tree on the way of Jesus I want us to take that point very seriously he did not climb a tree brothers and sisters if Jesus is taking this direction and you are busy climbing trees this side it does not matter how high the tree may be definitely you will miss Jesus Christ yes you will have climbed a tree but you have climbed a tree of no consequence Christ is taking this direction and you are busy climbing trees this side Jesus determines his ways and then move according to his movement that's when you get Jesus at least this man called Zakias was intelligent that much I'm calling upon you brothers and sisters to be intelligent to pick this intelligence that Zakias picked for sure this was not the only tree that was there and you can check he must have determined the second time to choose which tree to climb not every tree in the forest is for you to climb the rich young man came running you remember Zakias is also running to the same Jesus the rich young man we looked at yesterday also came running Zakias also is running now ahead notice Zakias did not blame his height no he did not blame the crowd he knew the real problem was that he was on a lower level he needed to get to a higher ground all of us need this spiritual higher ground we need to climb the right tree hallelujah we definitely need to climb the right tree we have been down for a long time we have been down for a long time spiritually check something here brothers and sisters as we get into this story there were many people right here looking at Jesus as a matter of fact the Bible talks of a crowd it was a crowd a crowd is not few people a crowd is quite a number of people but check there were many people right here looking at Jesus they were looking at Jesus and the book says there was a crowd but check only Zakias is recorded to have come to see Jesus there is a big difference between looking at Jesus and seeing Jesus there is a big difference between looking at someone and then seeing someone Jesus here was in the crowd people are crowding around him Zakias did not come to crowd around Jesus Zakias came to see Jesus he had something deeper than just looking at Jesus Christ his point was bigger other people who were present in this place are clamped in one word crowd can you imagine other people are called crowd only the name of Zakias is singled out here the rest are crowd brothers and sisters always avoid to be called crowd let your name be mentioned you are not a crowd but it will be distinguished from the crowd by what you do by the steps you take by the way you work with Jesus and now you can see this man called Zakias is singled out only the name of Zakias is mentioned names are not mentioned for no good reason names are always mentioned for good reason he was the only one spiritual substance to warrant the mentioning of his name he was the only one who ran ahead of the crowd when you check what is here there is nobody else who was running ahead everybody was in the crowd brothers and sisters tonight I call upon you to run ahead of the crowd learn to run ahead of your spiritual challenges yes Zakias had some challenges but he was moving and so he ran ahead and climbed a sycamofig tree to see him that was Jesus since Jesus was going that way God is worshipped by the wise for sure I want you to see wisdom here when Zakias checked determined and saw the direction and the route the master was taking and climbed the tree on his way beloved of God he requires wisdom it takes wisdom to determine the direction of Jesus it takes wisdom to know that Jesus wants us to be faithful he did not climb in a tree he climbed the right tree tonight we need to climb the right tree a tree he knew he would get his objective achieved don't think every tree is for you to climb no don't think every mountain because not all mountains are Calvary don't call every mountain Calvary because Calvary is one don't think every big congregation is a church there is only one right church don't think every song is for you to sing no sing the right song don't think every day is Sabbath no there is only one right Sabbath don't think every tree is to be worshiped no only man Jesus is to be worshiped don't think an amount is tithe to the Lord no only 10% of your increase is the right amount to return don't think an amount is offering to the Lord no but only the amount that your heart faithfully gives is the right amount beloved climb the right tree that tree is on the way of Jesus and that tree I want to mention the name of that tree and that tree is called faithfulness the tree of faithfulness when you climb the tree of faithfulness brothers and sisters since Christ is faithful he will always be walking on the way of the faithful and when he comes he will definitely meet you there because you are trading the same direction climb the right tree trust me if you climb that tree of faithfulness soon and very soon the Lord is coming and he will say to you well done good and faithful servant come and enter the joy of your father we are all waiting for that moment when that statement will be spoken but let me say please be there for that statement climb the right tree the kias was now in the tree I want to see I want you to see the kias in the tree first of all the kias is not a street boy the kias is a rich man the kias is someone who had power to fire and high the kias was wealthy the kias had everything it takes to be rich he actually had stopped looking for money and the man was looking for him but I want you to see a man of this caliber a man of this stature a man of this status in society he is in the tree climbing trees is not a practice of old people I don't know how many times you see rich people in the trees but brothers and sisters tonight I want to call upon you it requires climbing a tree to see Jesus climb it very quickly hallelujah climb it very very quickly if that is the way you will see Jesus better climb that tree now something happened here brothers and sisters now that he was in the tree with all his riches in the tree with all his fame in the tree I mean check everything he had he went with it in the tree because where you are is where all your property is when Jesus now Jesus was walking walking coming to where towards that man because exactly that was the route he was taking the Bible says when Jesus reached the spot where this rich man was in the tree Jesus stopped he stopped he looked up and said to him zakias calm down immediately yesterday I told you spiritual matters require speed I don't know how many of us took that very seriously but whenever it is about spirituality brothers and sisters let us be quick to pick let us be quick to repent let us be quick to do good let us be quick to be faithful when Jesus reached the spot he looked up and said to him zakias calm down immediately calm down I must stay at your house today remember the Bible says in verse 1 he was passing through now he has changed he is going to stay at zakias' house so he came down at once and welcomed him gradually I want to tell you the speed that took zakias up you can imagine is not the speed that brought him down those of you who do remember I told yesterday that matters of spirituality need speed Jesus is saying zakias be fast calm down immediately and I want to call upon each one of us listening watching from everywhere if you are still hanging up in your sins if you are still hanging up in your unfaithfulness please calm down immediately but check friends what is happening the Bible says when he reached that spot that is Jesus up and said to him zakias calm down immediately I must stay at your house so he came down immediately the question is what made Jesus stop at this point what is it that made him stop at this point listen to this the faithfulness there are two people I want us to look at there is Jesus and zakias zakias is in the tree Jesus is working on the ground Jesus is faithful zakias came from home looking for Jesus by faith zakias joined the group joined the crowd by faith zakias ran ahead of the crowd by faith zakias climbed the tree by faith zakias is waiting to say Jesus Christ by faith when you check around the tree you could find the faith of zakias right there now when Christ came with his faithfulness and the faithfulness of Jesus connected with the faith of zakias there was a spark that couldn't allow Jesus to move on you know when his faithfulness connects with your faith Jesus will stop in your life and he will stay there for all the time as long as your faith doesn't fade friends the day your faith will meet with the faithfulness of Jesus that spark will make Christ stay in your life forever it all takes his faithfulness and your faith to connect the moment his faithfulness and your faith meet will never move out of your life and so he had to stop nobody told him to stop it is the faith that zakias had nobody told him to look up it is the faith that zakias had in Jesus Jesus stopped and looked up and called zakias the question is who told Jesus the one in the tree was called zakias this was the first time Jesus is looking at this man called zakias who told the one Jesus the one in the tree is zakias that's not necessary why because he knows each one of us by name each one of us Jesus knows by name those of us who are looking at us those of us who are watching from anywhere please Jesus knows you by name in fact he knew your name before you got it he knew your name before you knew it he knows your name even better than you know your name yourself so it was not necessary when Jesus stopped and looked up he called zakias by name he knows each one of us by name he knows when we are and he knows when we lose he knows when we are faithful and he knows when we are not I mean he knows friends of mine Jesus called zakias by name Jesus called zakias by name how would you feel if Christ called you by name how do you feel and that time is coming when the roll is called up yonder what does it say when the roll is called up yonder you'll be there I'm calling upon you brothers and sisters to have your name written down to have your name recorded to have your name mentioned to have your name known by Jesus like it was with zakias he said zakias come down immediately and when I look at this zakias has already scored hallelujah he has already scored he had already achieved his objective he has seen Jesus and yes he has seen Jesus now they walked together because Jesus told him come down immediately because today I must stay at your house they are eternally changed faith has changed the itinerary of Jesus Christ brothers and sisters I see zakias coming from home in the morning alone he came from home alone but he went back home with Jesus Christ praise God brothers and sisters I know when we are joining this program when we are joining this live streaming you must have been alone but I don't want you to stay alone please go back home with Jesus Christ that day zakias came from home alone in the morning and went back home with Jesus Christ what a joy this man had you must have seen zakias when he was running with Jesus Christ now he is moving alongside with Jesus Christ no matter what was happening with other people some people must have been grumbling you know people can grumble some people are complaining about Jesus that is common with human beings but zakias was still clinging on Jesus Christ why they were going home we came to this meeting alone can we go back with Jesus Christ my brothers and sisters at this time Jesus itinerary has changed he is no longer passing through Jericho he has gone to stay at zakias's home how I wish he would come to stay at your home tonight how I wish he would come into our hearts tonight so that we can move with him when we are going home we can move with him when we are going to work we can move with him when we are going to visit we can move with him when we are going to church we can move with him wherever we are brothers and sisters let's pick a leaf from zakias how I wish he would come hiki wakini tsutini. Haike ni dem�리 hiti, kwa ni tani raki wa tehikiruhu. Ten10 bakiti hiki wakini bkikini. Tifuza, nahti nukia. Ten10 bakiti hiki wakini. Ten10 bakiti hiki wakini. Ten10 bakiti hiki wakini. Ten10 bakiti hikirihu. 8, but Zakias stood up at home and said to the Lord. Now, this is a very important statement we don't need to miss. Zakias stood up when they were in the house and said this, Look, Lord, here and now I give half of my possession to the poor. And if I have cheated anybody out of anything, I will pay back four times the amount. You wonder what Zakias is giving. Is he giving tithe and offering when you check this is beyond? You know, when someone allows Christ to get into his life, he will always give beyond percentages. I mean, the motivation is not by himself. The motivation is Jesus Christ. Sometimes I wonder, in verse 8 is where the stewardship rubber meets the spiritual road. And I will explain that.  Brothers and sisters, once someone begins addressing Jesus as Lord, that is no longer tax collector. Tax collectors don't call Jesus Lord. That one is no longer trader. Traders don't call Jesus Christ Lord. That one has ceased to be anything else except a true steward of the Lord. It is a true steward of the Lord that addresses Christ as the Lord because he knows Christ as the Lord of his life. He knows Christ as the source of every blessing. He knows Christ as everything that moves his life. At this time, check, this man called Zakias is addressing Jesus as Lord. Now, that is a true steward of the Lord. At this time, he is no longer a tax collector as a matter of fact. And when you check, he has become a steward and immediately he started giving. He said here and now, I give half of my possession to the poor. The poor must have enjoyed the wealth of Zakias. I may ask, Zakias is giving at this time, but which stewardship seminar did Zakias attend to begin giving like this? None. But the presence of Jesus in his life now has motivated him to give. Giving is a clear evidence of Jesus' presence in one's life. Yes, it is. If you are still struggling with giving and returning to God, then doubt the presence of the Lord in your life. Because Zakias did not attend any stewardship seminar. Zakias did not listen to any sermon, but the presence of Jesus in his life, the presence of Jesus in his home is a motivating factor for giving. Nobody even told Zakias to give, but what do you do when you accept Christ? You can't help giving. It will come because Christ, the one in your life, is the principal giver. He is the provider. I mean he is the one who is faithful and whoever connects with him gets that faithfulness from him. If we are still struggling for sure with giving and returning to God, then we can doubt the presence of the Lord in our lives. Zakias has full measure.  He has Jesus in his home. And if I have cheated anybody out of anything, I will pay back four times, Zakias says. Here the presence of Jesus in his life is now displacing all the wrongs Zakias had done. This is because he climbed the right tree. Zakias said, if I have cheated anybody out of anything, for sure he must have cheated. This was a tax collector. This was a man whose corruption rate must have been very high. But now Jesus Christ has come in. You see, brothers and sisters, when you have water in a glass and put a stone there, there is a amount of water that will be displaced. There is that scientific principle. Now Christ has entered into the life of Zakias. All the wrongs Zakias had done no longer count in his life. They have no space in his life. He has now replaced everything with Christ. Now he's correcting his mistake. He's saying, please, if there is someone I have cheated, please I'm here. I'm paying four times the amount. I wish I was there to have been cheated by Zakias. If he cheated me by four million, how many millions did he pay me? Hallelujah. You know, sometimes when Christ gets into someone's life, things begin to get better. Light begins to shine. Mistakes are corrected. I mean, nobody wants to get into the former mistakes, the former blanders, the former sinful life when Christ has entered into our lives. You know, it is the evidence that Christ is in our lives when we begin to speak out, when we shun evil, when we begin to give. Here, the presence of Christ is in his life. Now displacing all the wrongs out of Zakias' life, this is because Zakias climbed the right tree.  He is now giving to the poor. Half of his possession was not a simple mount. This is a rich man. I can see poor people now living in houses. I can see people who did not have land, owning land, although they were poor. I can see probably some poor people driving Zakias' cars. I can see even the poor enjoying why Jesus had entered into the life of Zakias. Now, after Zakias said this, Jesus spoke something. I want us to listen to what Jesus said. V. 9, Jesus said to him, today salvation has come to this house. Hallelujah. Today salvation has done what?  After, you see, when you look at Zakias before and at this time you see a serious change. By the way, Zakias right now has even forgotten that he is supposed to be collecting taxes. His focus is on Jesus Christ alone. He is thinking about Christ. He is talking to Christ. He is correcting his mistakes. He is giving to the poor. The whole life spectrum of Zakias has changed because of Jesus. Now Jesus saw that for sure salvation had come to the house of Zakias. We need salvation in our hands. We need salvation in our homes. We need salvation in our lives. We need salvation in our church. We need salvation in our countries. We need salvation in this world. But we only get salvation when we climb the right trip. But the son of man came to seek and to save the lost. For sure Jesus had found this man. Jesus had worked with this man. After Zakias announced giving and correcting his mistakes Jesus announced salvation. How I wish tonight Jesus can announce salvation in your house? How I wish tonight Jesus can pronounce salvation in your heart? Because giving is a response to salvation. Brothers and sisters, the giving we are talking about here is not the giving that you give so that Christ can give you.  You give because Christ has given. It is a response to this salvation. It is not that you want more. No, you give because Christ has given you even more. We respond to this salvation. It is those who acknowledge that they are saved by the Lord that give and return to the Lord. It is those who acknowledge that they are saved by the Lord that will climb the right trip. Giving and returning to the Lord is only possible after climbing the right tree. The tree of faithfulness, the tree on the way of Jesus Christ. Unlike the rich young ruler who ran away from Christ, Zakias ended with Jesus, giving which the young rich man refused to do. You remember when Christ told him, go sell all and give to the poor, this man ran away. But now here is another intelligent rich man called Zakias. He is giving even without being told to give.  And so we can conclude that not all rich people are the same. Some rich people are intelligent more than others. Some rich people are just willing and ready to work with Jesus. In fact, some rich people are already connected with Jesus Christ because they can now give to the poor. They can now correct their mistakes. They are connected with Jesus Christ. And so brothers and sisters, climb the right tree. Praise the Lord. Let us climb the right tree. The tree of faithfulness like Zakias did. We are looking forward to seeing you tomorrow. This marks the end, but our appeal is that you climb the right tree. It is wisdom to climb the right tree. It is intelligence when you climb the right tree because God is worshiped by the wise. God bless you, brother and sister.   God bless us all. Let us pray together as we close. Father in heaven, we raise our hearts to you. We raise our voices to you. We raise our faith to you because you are our God. We are seeking one thing, Lord. Give us the intelligence to do the right thing. Tonight we looked at Zakias. Zakias did not climb any tree. Zakias climb the tree on your way. Please help us, Lord, to climb the tree on the way. And we have seen that that tree is the tree of faithfulness. We want to be faithful to you, Lord. We want to remain righteous to you, Lord. We want to stand guiltless before you, Lord, so that when you come, we'll be ready to shout in unison and say, yes, hallelujah, Lord. We have been waiting for you. Bless every person who has watched, blessed every person who have attended and may their lives change from today onwards because we have prayed in Jesus' name. Amen and amen. God bless you. Amen. Vewas and church members, we thank God for what He has done for us for five days now. We have received relevant messages from the servant of God and we have been made to understand that once you are made to understand the goodness of God, what God has done for you and once you accept Him as your personal savior, you become His possession. Giving is an automatic thing. It's an act of worship. We want to thank the servant of the Lord for the message that He has delivered this evening. Jesus did not declare, salvation has come to this house until circuits started doing or giving. That's when Jesus Christ said, today salvation has come to this house.  Now brothers and sisters, abat from the regular tides and other church offerings we give weekly, this year and that thing is done once every year, we have a special project to do, to work together with God. The special project requires two things. One, this function that is going to take place from 17th of July to 24th, requires some activities to be done and these activities will require expenses. So as a child of God, sit down, ask yourself, this is a godly activity that is going to take place. It requires expense. Can you give towards that expense? And father, you need to sit down and account for the last 12 months. The Lord has been so gracious to you. He has done very many good things. He has saved your life. You have gone through difficulties but here you are. You need to ask yourself, what can I do to the Lord? What can I give to the Lord? And if you are attached, you are required to give an offering for the Lord's cause. We call it thanks offering. Sometimes we call it can be offering. So there are two things that you are required to do and very soon our come meeting is coming. Please give something to cater for the expenses or to cater for the activities that will be run during the come meeting. Secondly, never should you forget to give thanks to the Lord. We want to appreciate what has been taking place and we also want to believe that you will continue watching, feeling, meditating upon the messages as they are delivered to us from God through His servant until the end of this week. I want to call all of you not to miss the remaining lessons that God has prepared for us. Finally, the pastorate is with us. Pastor Nyaga, who has a program with the Hope Channel at ECD since Monday, he is still with us. He watches. When this time comes, he has to sit, watch and listen to the messages of the Lord. Pastor Guido went home because there are several, I mean, there are funeral services down there. He is still watching and he told me as I come here, I bring greetings to you all. Thank you the communication team. Thank you the servant of the Lord. Thank you everybody. Thank you for listening. Thank you for watching. God willing, we shall meet tomorrow evening as we welcome the Sabbath and listen to the message that has been prepared for us. God bless you. Thank you viewers for taking your time to be at the feet of Jesus and we thank God for pastor for making this all clear. And once we position ourselves on the right tree, then we will know the owner of that very tree. And when we ask of him, he will lead us to that very on tree, he is very on tree and he will call us out by our name. We will close this session with the song number 468. 468 and looking at Vastri going I once was an outcast, a stranger on earth, a sinner by choice and an alien by birth. But I've been adopted, my name is written down and here to a mansion and a robe and a crown may this be our prayer tonight. Our child of the king.   They're building a palace for me over there No ezel from home yet still may sing All glory to God I'm a child of the king I'm a child of the king Our child of the king With Jesus my savior I'm a child of the king May we say the words of grace May the grace of our Lord and Father May the fellowship of the Holy Spirit be with us now and forevermore In Jesus' name we pray Amen


re about this place and I want you to know that I care about this place. I have been supported greatly by everyone. The budget that Paul has put through is absolutely going to meet our needs. And I think more importantly, I've heard a lot of folks in the last couple of days question if I could get support if I need it and I have no doubt of that. I have no doubt that when things have come up and I've needed something as far as a communication system, Michael and Tim and Scott have dropped what they were doing to make things work for me. They have been incredibly supportive. We're in implementation. Well, we need to stand up. So what you may expect from us next year is that we will make sure we do things in a way that moves mindfully and is trying to solve actual issues. So kind of as opposed to saying what we think are challenges at the schools, we're going to spend time at the schools and learn from the folks who are there. We're at the senior center. I painted some tulips poorly. I wouldn't put it on my resume, but really that sort of thing is really important. And we have a lot of sweat equity to put in before I'll be here asking for more. But we are going to grow and we will someday need more. I feel comfortable asking for it when the time is. But right now, it's time for us to work. Kathy, I didn't know if you had done anything. No, actually, Earl, you just lead into my only question because as you said, I couldn't read in the thing, but the sense that you're building teams, even if they're not sitting next to you with dispatchers, with EMS, what I just heard with this notion of paramedics, and I just keep thinking of some international models that deliver care differently and are using the social service mental health income combination. So I just have to say welcome because I think that kind of thinking is what's going to do us all well. And painting tulips at the senior center sounds like a perfect way to meet seniors to me. So it's this sense of you're out there and been very visible. So I guess the only question I have is because you were in the news with working with the school system. And we just heard that the police don't. Is your sense that potentially that will be a role for Cress over time? Absolutely, it already is. So I chaperoned the middle school dance a couple weeks ago. What a time to be alive. I'll be helping the chaperone at the high school at the prom week from this Friday. We are going to be working with some students who have volunteered to be kind of active bystanders at the school next year. We're going to provide them some training over the summer. We're going to participate with Cress. We're working with Summit Academy to build up some capacity in those youth. I'll tell you I identify a lot with those young folks. So wanting to make sure that they feel is supported in this town as I have been is important. And really working across all of them, some of the most important things we've done there really has been just giving folks a break. The school staff are all really stretched. So one of the things we're planning for next year is that Cress will have some role in helping with the cafeteria with holding a lunch room at the middle school. Not just because it gives them a break, but it gives us a chance to meet the students there to shake hands to get to understand where they're coming from. So we're thinking of ways in which we can solve problems kind of across systems while also providing an additional resource and getting a chance to meet folks. So we're going to be really busy at the school and grateful for it. Those are our future residents of this town and they should get the full benefit of this immediately. Randy? Thank you. And you know I want to say say to you Earl that everything you said today including when we were discussing police department and all sounds fantastic the building up of the system and not wanting to overburden the new responders as you hire them and sort of building them. It sounds like when they become sort of the supervisors and can train the next sort of set of hires and all. So I think everything sounds great. I do have a couple of questions about funding and some of these might be for Paul more than you. Will some of the services that you provide be reimbursable by Medicaid or Medicare and if so are we intending to aim for those reimbursements? And then the next one is with your work with the schools. I wholly support that work but I ask this of DPW regularly. One of our schools is a regional school that gets funding from not just our town but three other towns. And then there's also the school budget itself which is just another line item in our larger budget that we're looking at right now. And how are those funds distributed between them? Is there going to be sort of a charge back to the regional school for the services that you're going to be providing them and all of that? It's not to say I don't want you providing the services but I ask it when we do the DPW does the maintenance and the lawn care. How do we as a town sort of receive the benefit of the fact that that school system has three other towns paying into it and so that maybe that could subsidize some of this program? And that might not be a question you can answer. That might be more for Paul or Sean but are we looking at for those cross departmental services a way to particularly for the regional schools receive funding from the regional schools for that? I want to add to that first part because the second part I am wholly unqualified for but the first part is yeah I mean I think we're working with state providers. We're having conversations about what building would look like. How could we be eligible? It's a very complicated thing. It takes a long time and certainly I mean the good thing is I know the folks there so we're going to have honest conversations about you know would that be a replication? We are having active conversations with everyone who might benefit from our resources about how we can share. This is a partnership obviously we're the new kids so we will be expending most of the energy at the beginning but give us a year or two in the value we add. I think folks won't have a problem contributing back and I also know that there's some behavioral health things coming down the road in the next two or three years around who's eligible for Medicaid billing that will be incredibly valuable so I guess more to be continued and hopefully this is my last round of unsatisfying answers. Pretty soon there'll be work. Paul please say or anyone else the second part? Yeah so I think a big piece of the way we've conceptualized this which is different than Northampton and other communities is that this is a third leg of public safety so along those lines we don't charge the schools if the police respond or the fire department responds. I mean if there's going to be a steady ongoing relationship that we're going to have someone stationed there from Crest or there's going to be we might look at that as a partnership with the school but again I think it's really important for us and Earl and I think one of the things that has been really powerful about the development of this program why it's getting so much attention is that it has been super cooperative among the three agencies. I mean Earl deserves a lot of credit but I also think you know Mike Curtin this could have gone in a lot of different directions. It's going in a really positive direction because of the leadership in our police and fire agencies and the dispatch because they're saying okay the town wants this how do we build it to the best that we can and they're very professional about doing that and so I think you know we want to continue to look at this as a public safety lens I've had the conversations with Northampton they look at it as a public health lens and they're looking at really different it's a direct you know very different approach so I think CSWG and that was a mind-opening moment for me when they said no we really see this as public safety and so we're that's the path we're walking down and I think that that's a pretty good path for us to explore right now. Though I do feel like we're just with the regional school question our neighboring communities need to have a better understanding of what it is that we provide to schools in public safety when they start complaining about the assessment method. There have been folks from some of the surrounding towns who started the process of reaching out to learn about Cress what the process was like and understanding our capacity so I don't think it's a conversation that I just think you all know this better than anybody it takes a while to wrap your head around it. Andy if anything else I can ask Pam because we're really running closed. I'm good and thank you for that note Andy about maybe we need to work with our regional school committee to start identifying all those areas that the town provides that don't show up in the budget. Pam. Hi thanks and thanks to Earl for being here and thanks to Paul for hiring him. I was looking I was trying to find the number for training training costs as you go forward and I'm wondering if you have some sense of of dollars that will be needed for training. Secondly what kind of training do you envision and who provides that kind of thing for you. I know this is hypothetical but it needs to be in the plan. This isn't hypothetical because we're playing we're scheduling those trainings right now I would say the dollars Sean I made default to you defer to you on the the dollars piece of it. Who's doing our training we put a priority on folks who have a mission that lines up with Crest so that has equity has some experience around public safety and and understands how to train folks to work with communities. We're working with the wildflower alliance which was a recommendation of the lead report. We're working with the CRG community community conflict resolution group out of Springfield who work with folks in the criminal justice system to support folks in the community. They have just a really really thoughtful well done way of dealing with concerning situations and things that may feel dealing with your own internal biases about someone else's action which feels really important. NVC nonviolent communication we're actually getting that training from two town residents. Jay Levy from Elliott homeless services is offering is providing our housing training or working with houseless folks training and then we've basically anywhere we've been able to find a content extra we've gotten one. The other thing that feels really important is we're getting first aid we are public safety so we want to make sure that we also have the same fundamental training as public safety so that when we show up even if we're not going to play those roles we understand what they're looking for what they're assessing for so we'll have a lot of you know we call live drills we're going to bring in folks to role play things and we're going to kind of practice what we're doing and then build training I wrote this the other day we're going to train practice train and then work and so when you see us take a deliberative step it's because we want to make sure you know sometimes if you're trained off just a little people do what they're trained to do and if you're trained incorrectly then you'll you'll work incorrectly so we're really at the intersection that we're also open to any ideas training like like our public safety sister agencies is going to be kind of a regular and consistent part of what we do so the training will never stop the two months we'll come to a close at some point but every we're planning have one day where everyone's in so we can have a bit of an in-service brilliant. Hey Sandy Earl welcome to Amherst it's nice to see somebody with the background in human services it's nice to see somebody who's got some extensive street level as well as management experience and in human services and DMH I appreciate all that questions for you is around the operating expenses $13,000 seems to be a real robust amount of money and I'm wondering how much of your current operating budget is actually off budget because it's it's grant funded the other question is I'm glad to see you've made repeated reference to the LEAP report which is I thought was pretty informative and had some excellent ideas in it around staffing and training have you given any thought at this point to what you might do for respite services or to secure a mental health bed given the population would be working with and if you've given any thought to a case management role for Crest honors or if I answer the part I can answer first and then you can go right ahead you can get all budgeted so yes I'm trying to get that second part down right so we are looking at some grants DMH has recently opened some grants up to us to make us eligible for them which is is wonderful and I think happened in a larger context for things like living room programs drop off centers things like that we're also kind of actively working as a stakeholder with state agencies to increase their access and you know really I think you hit a really key piece the huge part of the mental health crisis in Massachusetts in particular is the lack of beds is the reality that people are often needing to be moved across the state so we are it that's going to take time there's a new safe havens program opening up there's a couple of them there's more funding for them we're going to make sure we have a real roll over those particularly in getting folks back and forth from Amherst the case management question I'm really glad you asked that one we have within our current contract providers who can do some kind of longer case management but as far as targeted goal specific the sort of case management that that is I think more time limited we do expect to be able to do that so you know for instance someone is on the streets looking for some support getting into a place but then kind of meeting their basic needs for a month or two those are things that we anticipate being able to do and it's part of the reason why I know the 911 calls are kind of it's easy to spend a ton of time on that but actually if all we do is respond to crisis then we're just chasing our tail forever so we're really trying to think of how can the follow-up be something that provides some immediate sort of wrap around a handoff to services that's meaningful but also a warm connection back if that person ends up in crisis again we're hoping that they'll be able to call us directly they'll have a number we can show up and so you know we really want to get upstream which is the direction the department and the state are going as long as we kind of keep meeting folks on their worst day it's really hard to prevent those issues moving forward so and the good thing is I have a lot of really good mentors and there's no shortage of folks offering good ideas here so I am not uh I recognize that I'm not the I do not have a monopoly on a good idea so if you if you have any thoughts Bernie I'm here for him now and I'll be here for him later thank you and I'll just add quickly the 13,000 in the operating budget we knew that would be a starting point and so this year we'll work with Earl and find out what that needs to be on an ongoing level for this first year we have both the DPH grant and the ARPA grant which large portions of those funds are earmarked for training and to the mental health piece one of the things we are working or we will be working with Earl and Jen Brown is that we have an allocation from ARPA for five hundred thousand dollars for mental health and it's to do some of the things that you described and so we'll work with those two who are experts on how to best utilize those funds that's great because I think Earl's running target when he said if we don't if we just don't want to keep going in circles you know you don't you don't want frequent flyers you want to be able to encounter somebody to do the work you need to do with them and then get them into a safe a safe place in terms of services place to live that's one of I think that's one of the reasons why everybody refers to cahoots I think one of the reasons why Whitebird Clinic has been so successful is because they they're a full service shop you know we neither Northampton will have to explore this as well and I don't think there's a Ithaca's exploring this kind of thing you know there's a number of communities that are looking at it and being able to connect people up with services in a meaningful way and maintain a contact with them so that they know where to go if they start feeling uncertain it's going to be real important so thank you yeah I just I just want to offer us it's not just us reaching out we're getting calls from folks all around the country at this point with new sorts of referral systems we're working with an agency now that can do same-date medical assisted treatment prescriptions for folks where I think a lot of our challenges there are folks way outside of Amherst thinking about solving them with us and we're going to build a real network here and I'm excited if you guys take nothing away from this I'm still very excited thank you we're glad you are yeah Michelle I really appreciate that excitement Earl I think we all are and so I have a comment and a question my question sort of related to the $13,000 in the operating budget which I heard it was sort of a start my question is how are we doing with recruiting the community responders and given this is such an innovative program and department and more sort of leading the way in this are there ways that if recruitment is not going as you hoped that we could be marketing in different ways or finding ways to get the word out about this in different channels that maybe weren't initially considered yeah I I think I think it's easy to be radical until you have to go out and do it and I think that's the thing we're facing I think there's a lot of people on paper who would like to be here but it comes down to the reality I can't promise folks that I can promise them this won't be easy work this is going to be challenging work the shifts are going to be long I think you all heard Chief Nelson talk Chief Livingstone talk about you don't necessarily get to pick your days off and you can be asked to fill in more we're getting good candidates I would say we're not getting huge numbers of candidates but the people we're getting are good I'm proud of the amount of internal candidates we're getting of people from this town who've seen this process who want to join us and people who work in in human services who want to join us some of it is I think this is the scariest part possible it was scary for me to think about joining this because I don't know what it looks like none of us will know until we start taking calls so we're balancing trying to make it attractive and I think it is attractive the pay is certainly attractive in the context of of what human services pay the fact that it's a union pension position is meaningful I think it'll be easier when we start going and I can say well this is what the work looks like or you could come do a ride along and see it I give tours in that kind of space without a carpet all the time just trying to have people see my vision but once there's something there if you know anybody if anybody knows anybody I have found that it's much easier when we can have an individual conversation with someone about what are they their skills at and and really telling people that we want to we want people so the things you're good at we want to make sure we empower you we did we did you know we we were ultimately able to find someone for a program assistant and without you know getting into details of that person it is an incredibly competent qualified person who you know if tomorrow I couldn't make it in would be capable of leading this department I heard someone say eight supervisors you know my goal is that we have 10 directors that as these programs pop up that there are folks coming from the Amherst Crest Department to start these I don't think this is the last one but I do think we get to be first and that's a real so whoever there's a maybe it's apropos since we just hired someone from Notre Dame that those who stay will be champions I believe that and thank you Earl and just one comment in this conversation it sort of became clear to me that there are maybe a lot more services that you envision Crest being able to provide and I think as a council it would be really good for us to stay sort of on top of that and and or at least sort of be aware and abreast to those as as as the program evolves and expands and the ways that we can think about it I can imagine that sort of getting lost on us and then oh you know so I just I'm really saying that I think to Lynn and fellow counselors is just like for us to really be aware of all of the ways that that the community can be served by the Crest Department I realized I skipped one part of your question Bernie I just want to circle back to it the leap report is like the Bible I read it like twice a week I really I appreciate that that was put together people across the state read that I meet with the leap folks two to three times a month they're going to continue to be involved in our world and now we're helping them to provide support to other towns that are considering this one of their recommendations was that they come back at some point to do another evaluation and that's something we're kind of in the very early stages of discussing so we certainly won't we're going to start a lot of new work but we won't give up good work that's already happened thank you for that I would encourage all the members of the council to to read that Amherst community respond to report I think it was really well done that's got a lot of good ideas and a lot of the questions that are coming up and there are a lot of suggestions to respond to them and thank you girl for for affirming that hey I see no other hands in the council and we really need or the committee and I think we really need to move along to conclusion I need to do just one or two things one is that officially I need to ask whether there's any members of the public in attendance who wish to be recognized for public comment and I don't I think the answers could be probably not but I do need to ask and of course public comments I was welcome so if I don't see hands go up I'll keep an eye out for a hand up but I would go on to the other couple of comments that I have so we can conclude and adjourn the other thing I related to public comment is I said this earlier just for the benefit of our resident members there were a number of written public comments that came in in relation to yesterday's hearing that we're going to work to figure out a mechanism to get them to you in the most efficient manner so that you have the benefits of the written public comments that the councilor member council members of the committee have and Athena is working with us to find the most efficient way to get that done another thing that I just wanted two other things that I want to note is that I think that there's an issue that has to do with public safety that we really haven't addressed that was extremely evident in all of that written public comment as well as in public comment that we received during hearing itself in verbal form and that is people questioning the judgment in the was behind the town manager's recommendation on how to fund the various arms of the public safety budget in particular making assertions that we were inadequate that he was recommending inadequate funding for crests and too much funding for police to be blunt about it but we have not had the opportunity and did not really get into that issue today I think when we get to discussing as a finance committee our recommendation to the council on the budget we may need to make some reference to that and some findings on it and I don't know if anyone either Paul or Earl or I'm not expecting any comments from anybody today about it but it is sort of this elephant that's out there in the room and we can't I'm not sure that we can totally ignore it when we come back so the last thing that I just want to say which is we're going to be standing up we're going to need all the resources we can get so I you know whatever that means for folks I just want to say that like we have had great partnerships with our other public safety agencies and we're going to need that for the next year so just for your consideration and I appreciate that and we will I think the committee does is going to have to have that conversation as to whether that they want to respond to that in its report to the council and the last thing that I just wanted to say again for the benefit of our resident members who weren't didn't stay with the entire council meeting yesterday after the hearing was over is that there was a referral that we are going to need to take up not during the budget season but pretty quickly afterwards which was the request of the african heritage reparations union to talk about marijuana revenue and assuring that and their recommendation that marijuana revenue go to reparations fund and that was referred to the finance committee and is going to be something that we will need to work into our discussions once we complete the budget discussions but I wanted to make you aware of that referral so I don't have anything else today that was my one thing that I was referencing at the beginning that was say within the last 48 hours probably more like in the last in the 12 previous hours but in any event turn it to Lynn Kathy since your hands are up and then Michelle but let's try and be real quick because we are after 12 o'clock already and I want to get us adjourned but Lynn you don't have anything then I'm sorry I'm trying to see if I should adjourn the council one two three six oh no we still have seven yes I want to ask a clarification on the assignments for Thursday I have DPW but I it was a little unclear to me whether I also have the enterprise funds yes I believe you took all of them so I have everything for Thursday yes I did I did warn to split them up don't forget I did warn that but you want thank you I just want to invite counselors individually to send me any questions they have okay yeah and I do want to remind people that on Thursday I will convene the meeting at the beginning but immediately turning it over to Kathy who's going to be chairing the in managing the entire meeting once we have started meeting so just say that again Kathy that was actually what I was going to say Andy has asked me to chair next Thursday so in addition to Lynn's request that she amalgamate and I didn't make that with the police EMS but I didn't share I didn't share the questions I sent Sean but I would like my request would be is you get a composite could you could we see them maybe at the beginning of the meeting so we just know what has already been asked and I don't know what it's your name to answer it now because I just Mandy was waiting to see if I would ask something I had a couple things on the list that I didn't go into it just it would be useful if Lynn I will send you whatever I have but I'm going to be chairing it so that was my only just comment yeah thank you Michelle yeah following up on assignments I have general government which I realize is really big and I want to make sure I get my questions in as far enough in advance as possible so that perhaps even we can have written answers for prior to the meeting I think general government is a week from today so just asking if counselors have any questions to please send them to me as as Lynn did and I also wanted to say to Andy and I can't see you now oh Andy I did send the public comment with respect to the AHA's request to our non-voting members what I had so far as well as the memo that I wrote for counselors but I really appreciate that there's a something in the works that will make that a little bit easier as we move forward with with that discussion and any discussion that the non-voting members might want to have public comment for so thank you Yeah and I want to thank you for having made that forward it saves me one step because my next thing would have been after the meeting adjourned today to go through what we had yesterday in the packet and see if there's anything that needs to be forwarded to them and you've taken care of a piece already so thank you So no hands up there's nothing else that I'm aware of on the agenda and before I guess I'll declare the meeting adjourned


Thank you. We're back on a different bill on H96, which is our bill that was a proposal for a task force to consider a truth and reconciliation commission. And we've had some fairly general conversation about this and a lot of conversation in social equity caucus about this bill and with others, Representative Bloomley and Kalaki have been meeting with a bunch of different individuals, stakeholders, if you will, and we haven't really started a larger conversation on H96 yet. And people are starting with curious about it, about what does it mean. The state's never really embarked on a process like this before. And so there's an issue of sensitivity, first of all, about why are we doing this and what would we be doing, what would be the outcome of this and what would be the goal. And more practically, the question becomes for us as we start to consider it, actually, not so much how do we go about it, we're going to go about it in a legislative way, but also trying to take into account the voices of the people that have been affected that this Truth and Reconciliation Commission has presented as we've been talking about it for some of us over the course of the last 12 or 14 months, but for others it's been longer, for others it's been much shorter. And I wanted to reach out to you, Amanda, and we shared the language anyway of H96, which was a short form, which only had the proposal in it, and then the language that we had started last year. And one of the questions I guess I would just start off with is, or I'll share a conversation I had with Debbie Ann Page from the Council of State Governments who does sit in on the social equity caucus meetings and was integral in helping us create that social equity caucus, was is it right to even include the words Truth and Reconciliation in a task force to decide to determine what might come next? I mean it's easy for, it's not easy because we've never done it before, but it's in the formula of saying well how do we approach social equity in the work that we do, wouldn't a Truth and Reconciliation Commission of some sort be part of the process. And I guess the question that Debbie put to me was well should the task force be about well what actually comes next? What if one group of people actually only wants certain legislation? What if one group of people doesn't want or need a Truth and Reconciliation Commission? What if another group of people do? How do we accommodate? And so I wanted to start our broader outreach and certainly a committee anyone can chime in, but John and and Representative Collack you're bloomly you know certainly with the conversations you have feel free to chime in as well but I'll just start Amanda first of all to welcome you back. And we view your experiences and the Human Rights Commission's role in working with, I don't even know if it's situations like this but very difficult situations and I just wanted to start by asking you like what is what in your opinion might be a path forward for us? I mean we're going to start a process with a eugenics apology and one of the notions that I've been working with in my head based on the research that I've done over the years is that once you when you apologize it can either be just words and really empty or it can do something or it can be the beginning the springboard of something else. And none of those other things are promised per se because it's a legislative process but we're not going to just apologize and leave it on the table. And I just it's kind of a broad question to you but what do you see or as a path forward for us as we contemplate what I view as some pretty important ideas this session? Thank you and thank you so much for having me today again and I appreciate having today representing the voice of the Vermont Human Rights Commission and I think I mean I think centering the voices of the people is always very important and I know that your committee is always trying to reach out to people from the communities that this will impact. I am I'm really happy that the eugenics apology is going to move forward. Is it going to move forward? We expected to yes. So and I think that you're right that that is a first step. I was just listening to Chief Stevens when he came to testify here before and I think it's it's important it's an important step but not the end right it's just like you said I think these all of these processes need to have a transformation piece in that I talked a little bit about transformative justice and what how that looks like last time that I came here and and so I think it's the process and I think you know going also by just thinking about intersectionality approach of it and how intersectionality as a theory like you you still have this separate culture background that binds us together right like that is very specifically we're talking about reparations in the black community we're talking about the harms that were done by to the indigenous community and the harms that were done to the disability to people with disability in our state right and in our country so I think I think was our separate distinct things that have happened that we have historical markings for it that to this point we're still kind of you know talking about it so it's kind of like time to to start that action so and and with that said is in the legislative process to thinking about well who is on that table and that's I think the most important thing is like who is going to be at you know on that table and looking at the H96 of last year and you know looking at the stakeholders that were put in it's great but and again that's the question of how do you create a system that really respects that the different oppressions that have happened and how everybody's going to have a different response to what they want whether it's reparations whether it's land whether you know it's so I think that in a way what I am offering today is something you already said that you know there is some important separations that need to happen so that people can bring on their own cultural awakening that their cultural empowerment about how they want these reparations to be and and be able to submit that and I think so with this bill and you like how I believe that it should still be the huge component of us the truth and reconciliation because we do need to we need to bring the truth and then and then ask ourselves oh how do how would we repair this harm together right for our state so I mean I think you already heard from so many other people as well that there needs to be that people need to speak for themselves that's the big part and in choosing that who's going to be there is just leaving for the people that are doing the work on the ground and I mean the reparations task force in Burlington the HRC had a space we we you know found someone that could represent the HRC in that in that moment so in that space as well but that answer your general question I answer with general answers no that's that's right and and so um and so we're one of the intellectual pieces of this for me is that we are the legislature so we give us we create the space and we have a certain kind of timeframe right because whether it's crossover whether it's the end of session whether it's crossover next year which it can be uncomfortable when we're talking about trying to create a space for people that you know that where their voices can be heard in a meaningful way and that might lead to that might lead to the next steps and so when when we're asked we've been asked to take our time because not only is it like giving people voice part of giving them that voice is saying we're ready to talk or we're not ready to talk and so um given that on one hand I feel pressure to get something done because it's the right thing to do balanced with but we're not ready to talk perhaps um what is there I mean it's not there's not a textbook answer I know but I'm just you know I'm just looking for that for that balance of of um respectfully having that conversation and working within a system that is problematic at its core or by its definition yeah I mean I it's um I think that yes there's always a step that we need to take and be bold and I think when we're talking about the systems and the harms that were done we need to start moving a little bit bolder around like if we're really committed to do let's just do it and I think the so part of it like the process is the most important thing and this is the beginning of the process you don't need a product right now the product will come when the when the people are ready but you need to set the the process that is if like so that this is the way I'm thinking like you set up the process you pass this bill people come in to start to brainstorm and that's and that is what we need right now if we wait one more year for some people to speak and others are ready some others are not but you know there is a movement that speaks to the now to the let's move things forward now and the process will speak for itself I think you know part of a white supremacy culture tenant is product over process right but process is what really what what it's going to bring the birth about what needs to happen for us to really get to where it needs to be and so I think that if because we are a few days before crossover that we've been having these conversations now for three years some of us you know for more some of you for much more than that that let's just move the process forward and there will be and I think that you're not setting up the truth and reconciliation product now that is going to come out of the people that are doing the work that are impacted that can speak about what they need and what and I mean we we have seen committees that work with subcommittees so it doesn't necessarily mean that you're you know putting everybody together you could be like the process again and we have really great people in our state that I am sure have all the capabilities love for this work that can create a process that is sustainable that grounds the voice of the people that you know we're doing this for and that can really make a difference so that's my my opinion okay question from representative blumley thank you um chair and thanks so much for visiting the committee um I I guess I guess I want to ask a baseline question which is um is an apology meaningless if not accompanied uh by a or is it diluted an apology that commits itself to legislative action um uh is it without companion legislation to take that first next step is its meaning uh diluted to you I I've heard different things in different discussions um and I think that my um I I completely agree with you about process being critical um our committee has um I think heard or at least members of our committee and meaning um our chair and John Kolecki and I've heard different things from different people with whom we've spoken to better understand what might be desired um and um and so uh and there was also some discussion of white supremacy culture is an urgent one and there's always a desire you know desire to fix something um um and are we maybe moving too quickly so I that was several kind of questions there thank you I I um you know it's specifically without eugenics apologies I just I I feel like the people that were impacted are the ones that should be speaking whether or not you know an apology is enough as as as me I would say that that a apology is not enough if there is no transformation for it and and how that looks like so like um but again like it should be our Abenaki community like being able to answer that questions and our our um and I know that we heard from from people like Max that came to speak a little bit around that and I think that yeah I think that there should always be attached to a next step it doesn't again have to be like now we're gonna do all that but it's like the impact right like when we we are learning all this work around um apologies and around intention versus impact and right now we're talking about the impact and how that happened and so like how to resolve the issue so so I went all over but the answer to your questions is I think that there should be something attached to it but I also want to give um this should be something that is not that is the Abenaki community speaking and okay thank you okay representative Kalaki in Parsons thank you and good morning Amanda thank you for joining us thank you you know we are grappling with what is the next step forward and what does it mean and um you know what we're looking at as a task force not to necessarily define a truth and reconciliation committee but determine what it would be um I'm really wondering and maybe it's more of a a session that I wonder if this is more of a hybrid model with the legislature your your office and susanna davis's office and because this is a lot this is very important for the state to do and it's really important that it's correct and I think uh you know just trying to to figure out this process and what the financial support is for this process you know uh Lumley and I've heard from people saying well we're all volunteers this is really hard to set up meetings with us over the summer to get a report together about this because no one's you know this we all have other jobs and so I'm just thinking it um I think I'd like to sit with you and bore yeah and and uh Lumley and and then bring this back to it is there a different model you know we we have a a summer study committee you know is a model the legislature sets up or a process and you know we we have a lot of deep listening to do with a lot of different stakeholders to determine what what their issues are in this and what the harm is from their perspectives not from our perspectives and so my I just can't get my arms around what a process would look like and so I don't know if you'd be willing to sit and brainstorm is there some connection with your office with Suzana Davis's office and with the legislature I know it's it's it's we and the apology we apologize for what the state did so it is ultimately our responsibility I'm not trying to give up our responsibility but I'm just feeling like this is pretty important and and due process is really and we you know we have to start it we don't have to finish it in in one little summer committee so I think that's where I'm struggling how to start yeah and I'll be I'll be more yes I am here to support our HRC is here the Vermont human response is here to support all the way and yeah we can set up a a a meeting with Susana and part of like the the initial h96 from last year I mean all of the systemic racism pieces is work that she's going she's working on all all of the the work that her office is doing around systemic racism and finding and that the HRC is doing in some of it so I think that a connection to it is really important and I'll be more than happy to talk but yeah we're here to support okay thank you representative Parsons thank you I just had a question it's more of just a understanding type question the term white supremacy culture has been used a few times around this regarding different aspects then your example was product over process is a white supremacy culture thing does process over product belong to any supremacy culture or is it just it just seems that it's I'm not sure it just seems like a personal trait kind of thing as opposed to being given any one culture thank you representative for that so the white supremacy culture is it's it's a document that many many of us have been drawing from that was created by these two amazing educators that kind of like the tenant of white supremacy it's in his hell is why folks believe in that they are above anybody else and so there is a kind of line of study that that has been happening around our state in many spaces around specifically around white supremacy culture of how like people of color have not given the words to speak for themselves and and these also and just that the procedures that have been created to not allowed for people of color and people from other marginalized communities to come and speak being agents of change and and what the processes are and so there's a shift to shift in some of those things around perfectionism around like how everything has to be perfect and and process there's an idea I will be more than happy to share the document with you that talks a little bit about just the standards and and and the shift for that that is less of a rigid system where we can actually be humans together instead of like this kind of a standards that have been said that in in many many times what that has done is um continue to oppress people that who were whose voice were taken away and I'll be happy to share that document with you yeah I guess I was just trying to square the circle of if product over process is white supremacy culture does process over product automatically becomes something that we tied to another culture I don't so a culture we're trying to create together where all the voices are listened to maybe okay I guess I'll leave it at that thank you thank you okay representative blumly yes um I've been following different pieces of legislation that um related to social equity that are in different committees um in both the house and the senate and and I've just been this is a kind of a broader question but it it it might affect our work here on this which is you know is is there it feels a little to me like a patchwork quilt um approach or a somewhat piecemeal approach to address um similar issues um in different ways through different means and that may be what has to happen um you know whether it's the data collection or it is related to health care equity or it is related to reparations or and um I I just wonder about discussions you you know and your colleagues have had or um or you've had with susana davis about is there any reason to try to align or integrate these um you know these efforts um and are there opportunities that would um um I apologize for not being clearer uh do you do are you understanding where I'm going here I think I'm just conscious of the fact we're doing this here these other people are doing things in other places and are there opportunities um over over time for some alignment and strengthen um our efforts yeah and I mean I I I think so and I think part of the bridge of the susana davis office is gonna work on that right like she just started one two years ago so it's like just like thinking her job is to end systemic racism in that state which is huge right and so I and I think that they already gave us recommendations of things that that can't work that ultimately will help us see the big pictures and and align so I will defer to her because I think it is a great question um she created a task a symposium of all the task force that the state has and so uh those task force have met I think I believe like three times um and just looking at all the things that people are doing with that idea not to redo things that have already been done you know reports that have been commissioned uh to these task force that are looking at racial equity education police reform all of this and looking at how they'll align um towards that same goal right of looking at the disparities in our state so I think I think susana will be I know she's that's fine tomorrow um those are really great things for her that she might already be working on that thanks thank you um amanda the we had an implicit training bias earlier as a caucus of the whole um we have uh upwards of a dozen bills in our committee right now that in some way shape and form address issues that fit into the category of social equity um or social justice and we haven't really delved into a lot of them past this age 96 and the apology um and I suppose we can include minimum wage and there's a lot there and I'm curious to know if there is a way for us to take time not this week not next week but sometime in the near future to kind of have another training with you um and with others just to again to try to um identify way best best practices on how to to start work on some of these bills I mean obviously we're not going to get to all of them but we they have all come out of conversations um obviously they're important to somebody enough to try to get them sponsored is that something that we can request um I mean we would we would probably need to figure out what that means for our committee like what is it that we want to what is it that we would want to talk about with you or in as a training but is that something that you would be able to work with us on? Yeah I would love to I would love that um and also I don't know have you guys seen the tool that Susana in her office created around like policy and equity um I we may have seen it individually in places but I can't recall seeing it myself I will ask her to send it but um I think that that's a really important tool because he asked all this question around equity and around all the policies and bills that are being worked on um and they use it in in their office so but I would love to yeah work with your committee and um set something up. Great because I mean one of the things again remaining sensitive to language um we would we need to be working from the same glossary I think and and I hear this in all of our work but again in relation to this bill um mostly offline it language is important and understanding what these things mean are important and I think it would be important for us to address these in a much more specific way than just the training that we received um as a caucus of the whole um but the committee will and I will have you know we'll have that conversation in the near future but I just I just as I as I was feeling lucky to get you here for today I was you know thinking that in the future again as we take up bills like this even even 96 um how do we how do we make sure our language is correct. I'll also just be happy to give a 15-minute overview of what the HRC does um representatives that are new uh just because we we do have um a huge you know plate um a full of things that of all of our protected categories and so when I'm speaking um who I'm speaking for not for but you know the the work that we have is for all the protected categories which includes race, ethnicity, gender and so that will be also helpful um of where we come from when we're speaking of the HRC. That would be great again we this this this zoom world has prevented us in some ways of just having our HRC 101 or um in in our 101s in a lot of different categories here in the first half of the first year of the session so um but we will we will be sure to um be in touch soon and and I I appreciate you taking the time just to sort of tee this up or get share and share your thoughts. Well thank you. Now yeah and and you know feel free if you notice here and there that we're going down the wrong alley or the right you know just if you if you know if you notice things that we don't please feel free to share them um at least with with any of us that you come across um I'd say in the hallway but we're not there yet so soon soon yeah all right thank you so much for your time today yeah thank you thank you so much all right be good thank you you too all right committee that was some kind of morning um um in general housing and military affairs fashion um representative murphy thank you chair Stevens I'm going to wrap us back to when we very early began voting on h149 and as I look at the instructions for what I'm to do with it there's one requesting that um speaking to amendments to it and we didn't deal with the amendment and so I don't know how to cope with that because it says if the if the bill is being voted out favor favorably no amendments proposed by the committee but we are proposing an amendment and we didn't vote on it it was the motion was favorable with amendment so that's all we say yes yeah so the work that by adding language on top of what was in the bill is introduced that's that's that's the amendment we made so we we made that amendment in the in in the process of discussion on the bill okay I think what I think what's going to appear in the in the book is probably just the amendment or a link to the amendment you know to some of the language or it could be to the whole bill but regardless it's not we didn't do a strike all usually what happens is you know if there's a lot of changes we do a strike all and you can but I think it's still the same process you're right we didn't have a separate amendment for the employment rights yeah and so that's so maybe so maybe reach out to Damian and ask him how it's how he thinks or maybe the clerk um you and Ron can reach out to the clerk and see how it's going to appear in the calendar and I'm sorry I stand corrected I'm looking at the summary and it does include the section 72 and 73 so you're right it would be as amended we we tucked it in yeah right it was inserted language yeah yeah okay I did ask Damian and he said just send the amendment to the court to the house yeah okay yeah so the people so people can refer to people can refer to the bill is introduced because we didn't change anything in it and then there's that amendment that we did add okay all right there is right yeah exactly um all right everybody so we are on the floor at 1 p.m and um uh 115 115 and just keep an eye as we discussed yesterday just keep an eye on your texts from Ron just I mean obviously if we are past a certain time you know we'll find out from the witness how long he's available but um what his flexibility is and after a certain point and if we are able to meet with him I suspect it could be you know a half an hour to 45 minutes it would be probably um the most we would get I mean we usually when we've met with this group before with with Colonel Cooney before we've rarely gone over an hour with him but um just keep it just keep an eye out and Ron and I will work on tomorrow tomorrow we clearly need to meet at nine o'clock on um we so homework will be definitely take a look at the rest of one the last couple of pages of 157 um be prepared to make some quick conversation and decisions if we can on 313 when that information comes across of course if we can't find comfort a comfort level on voting for something we'll we'll pass until the next time um and and um that'll be that'll be the the thrust of tomorrow along with conversation with Suzanne on Davis could could we try to um get the representative the retailers in just to have an understanding of that or yeah we've Ron is going to work on contacting Aaron Segrist to see if she has an opinion I have sent an email and so um we'll see how she responds thank you Ron and I do think I mean I do think the question Barbara that you raised earlier whether you know is this a consumer bill or is this a manufacturer you know a business bill and I think you know including second class people could be considered a consumer bill because supermarkets supermarkets certainly haven't struggled during COVID um from a business perspective um and that's a different that's a different thing rather than saying specific to the businesses that are the the manufacturers or um I mean small businesses you know I know that the the the small local store in Huntington has struggled this year but that's um they also don't do curbside so um anyway we'll see what we get from Aaron Segrist and um go from there