Welcome. This is Jenkins documentation office hours. It is the 20th of February. Asia time. Thanks for being here topics for today action items. Debian 12 and JDK 17 reminder on handling regressions detached plugin documentation and update to describe that. And pull requests of note. And Gavin Morgan has added one very good. Okay. Any other topics that need to be on the agenda for today. Not for me. Okay, well so I would say let's let's shift pull requests of note high on the list or rather will focus on trying to get it done so we can get to pull requests of note very quickly. Okay. All right so first item, no action no open action items, when second item Debian 12 bookworm. So the next release of Debian is planned for release in 2023 likely either April or May or June. So they freeze in March, and final freeze is expected probably a month or two later. Okay. When they do that right now we've already detected that they're no longer delivering open JDK 11 at all. It's not available as a package. Oh, so you can only get Java 17. They're preparing for I think the eventual release of Java 21, which is probably 12 months or less than 12 months away. So, so they're there admitting that they're ending the life of open JDK 11 on their platform, because the support for JDK 11 will happen at least the, the active support will happen in 2023 already towards the end of the year. Okay. So the proposal in that Kevin, Kevin Martens and Bruno but I just and I discussed was what we're going to do is, we're going to update the documentation beginning in about April or May so beginning when the release is will update the documentation to describe Java 17 install instead of Java 10 Java 11. Both are supported JDK. What's that. What about not open JDK is anybody using that. Oh, in fact, many, many places are using. So that's the next one containers for containers we're using. We use Eclipse Temeron and and it continues to support it and works Java 11 and works just fine works on Debian. So, for our container images, no problem. Okay, the challenges for people who install it directly with a Linux package. For them. They'll see they won't be able to use the instructions that say do Java 11 because Java 11 won't be available. Right. And so what we'll do is we will just describe Java 17. And if they want to use Java 11 they can but we'll describe Java 17. So there's an additional twist on this red hat has proposed Oliver gonja of red hat and one of his colleagues have proposed to add a universal base image. Nine. So this UBI is the container image simplified container image based on red hat enterprise Linux. And so Oliver gonja here has has proposed that they'll create they would we would add a Docker container using UBI nine we've already got one that uses UBI eight. And so it makes sense. And the question to them was they proposed initially Java 11 and our question back was could we please just do Java 17. And that way this is already moving towards the notion let's do Java 17 rather than Java 11. Right. And we've been delighted actually with the results with Java 17. There are cases where it actually runs better than Java 11. Wow. So we're really pleased with the results with Java 17 and Jenkins. And so the idea is that's where we plan to go with it. No action on this until the release of Debian 12. But but then come April, May or June whenever that releases, we'll make that update. Okay. Next topic was handling regressions on the Jenkins that IO site. So we've had some episodes in the past where we made some change to Jenkins that IO to improve the look and feel or to improve some part of the site. And inadvertently, that change also caused a loss of functionality. So what we're doing is discussing and proposing a formal how do we handle regressions policy. As one example of a regression we had this one where it's kind of embarrassing back in November we made a change that broke the jumbotron the thing that scrolls this bottom image. It was stuck on one plot place. And by secting we discovered that Vandit Singh actually discovered that a commit from November of 2022 is the one that broke it. So we were months without detecting this particular regression. And so we said, Hey, obviously this one isn't a rush to fix it. He's complained either. Right, none of us have detected it, right. And so it can't be that urgent, but you've been at Konechni proposed the fix. And there it is fixed. So it's back. But what we proposed as a general policy is we're going to use the same regression policy for Jenkins that IO as Jenkins core uses. So if a significant regression is not resolved promptly will revert the change. We'd rather go back to base functionality than add something new and lose significant capability. What was the new functionality that broke this just curious. It was upgrading from an older version of the bootstrap JavaScript library and replacing an unmaintained library with a maintained library that does some important functions is popper JS library. Okay. So the upgrade was valuable. It really was the change that made this was valuable and truly useful, but it had this undesired side effect. Right. What you've been it was able to do though was he was able to fix the root problem and not have to revert the change. Wonderful. So, so the idea is significant regressions that aren't resolved promptly we revert them. So minor regressions will take will allow more time. Now what we've done is we've added two issue labels one for regression and one for major regression. That way if something is flagged as a regression, we know we need to take action on this. And the idea was discuss it any concern from you Meg about that kind of a policy. Now it makes a lot of sense. Okay, good. So the checklist for release. There really isn't a concept of, you mean, when you say release you mean Jenkins core release or something I don't know it's sort of, I mean, it's, it's an ongoing problem it's like every so often somebody should just read these pages. Just look at them. Oh, oh, yeah so no we do not that's that's a fair point. We certainly have a checklist for releases of Jenkins core. Right. But that's that's a different thing I think you were asking more a checklist for review of the documentation. Right. Right. That is a big bugaboo of doc like code is you can automatically check that things build and stuff but to make you know some of this other stuff is the human element still that just got to look at it and say, right. Well, and, and the human element is there no matter what there are all sorts of examples in the Jenkins documentation of things that have have become outdated and are no longer relevant, because the world has moved around it. Right. It was it may have been exactly perfect when it was first written. Nowadays, it's no longer accurate and therefore. So for instance the Linux install instructions talk about red hat and sent to us but sent to us as an operating system. Now that Sentos Sentos seven is the last viable operating system of Sentos, and it will end its life in 2024. So there's not a lot of value to us actually talking about Sentos seven. It's yes, it exists. No, we really don't want it. So those kinds of things they become dated or not less less valuable as time goes on. Exactly. All right, so that one's covered anything else on the regressions topic looks good. Okay, next topic then was there's a concept that we've just we've realized may justify more documentation. What this is is. Let's look at a plugin to talk about what this this means. So let's look at Oracle JDK and tool installer. Okay, so this, this thing was split from Jenkins core, many, many years ago. So it used to be part of Jenkins core and not even a plugin. And when it was made a plugin, there's a risk that other plugins might depend on the API is that it had been contributing to core and is wasn't is no longer. Yeah, contributing to core. And that's what this list of implied dependencies means. And if you look at the size of the scroll bar. You can see that it's for this example quite a large number of plugins that have an implied dependency on this particular, this particular plugin. The problem is if someone wants to remove this plugin from their installation, and they have one or more of these plugins already installed. They cannot remove this if they attempt to remove it. The removal will be attempted in Jenkins will then re inject a copy of the plugin back into the system for its own safety. Okay. Now, now that concept of implied plugins is described here and I like the description it's actually quite good talking about what an implied plugin and implied plug in dependency means. But this becomes more complicated. If we instead take a different plugin that's now been deprecated. So this plugin called the WMI Windows agents plugin is not just split but it was split from Jenkins core and is now deprecated. Meaning users get another message that says hey this thing is should is deprecated you should be removed. But then when they try to remove it. It would tell them, sorry, you can't remove this because it has that you have these other plugins installed that are implied dependencies. And what can they is there anything they can do about them in. They have to they have to rebuild the plugins with implied dependencies to require a newer Jenkins version. Ah, and that's well use we saw the earlier one right that that could be a huge effort with this one for example with it's what looks like hundreds of implied dependencies. Now, these are universally older plugins right there plugins whose minimum Jenkins version is very, very old. But that doesn't mean that some of them aren't still useful. People do not upgrade the way we think they should. Right well and, and for instance, if we look there are some of these plugins let's see if I can find the one that's the example. Editor. Here we go. The JavaScript GUI live ace editor bundle. This one provides a library. It has 275,000 installations. Oh, so it's used very widely why well because it's dependency of blue ocean. Right. And oh, I take it back and it's a it's a dependency of pipeline motion my mistake so pipeline is depends on it. And, and so that that challenge means everybody with pipeline has this installed. So they can't remove the JDK, the JDK, the Oracle JDK tool without this warning message that says hey we're going to give it back to you that. So this all this complication all this long story means we think we need to do some do some more documentation to describe it. The first one here on the list is actually resolved in Jenkins 2.386 and later. So we fixed it. And the next one we made we may someday want to resolve the others. Well for instance, you might say hey I want to get rid of subversion I never use it. Well if you have any one of those old plugins you can't get rid of subversion. That's the kind of story for this. Now really, right now it's mostly a, how do we document this so that we can point people who have a question to this thing and say, here's a long term there's probably a way in code to make this much better. But that'll have to be seen. Any questions. Nope. All right, next topic then was that let's get to the fun part. Right. So pull request of note what I propose is let's spend our time reviewing these things and just talk together about them to see what we think. Okay. So here is a change from Gavin Morgan proposing a UI change. All right so the change here is a proposal. Okay so we've got. Okay so they're, they're going. Do you see what's happening here what they're doing is they're going through a series of steps to try to improve the appearance of the improve the look of it yeah so let's, let's now one of the cool things here if I understand yes. One of the cool things is you see the show environments that's right here. What is provided us is a way to look at this in a deployment context of this is a Netlify hosted look at the various parts and pieces so I clicked to footer here. And here's how it looks. Whoops, where is the, where's the improve this page. Oh, oh, got it. Okay. Okay here it is the default here if it has a source path. No source path. Oh, good. Okay. So if we know the location of the pages source code. For instance we know it's an ad hoc file or it's backed by some, some other a markdown file, then this is what appears with this improve this page link. Okay, if we don't know the source path we can, we can still have the report a problem link, because that will let them go to Jenkins dot ios issue get have issues page. If we don't know that we get the default like this, and external property external property what does, what does external property do differently. Do you see any difference between these two. I don't see any difference but for me they look great now I want one of the things they did was they, they changed the size of these things so for instance what if we are down here on a, on a cell phone, like this. It still looks pretty good to me. And if I get even smaller, it still looks good. And it's still holding up very nicely. And I can't even go any smaller than that now. So, I feel pretty good about the, about the layout. Yeah. You're okay with it as well Meg. I want to know what the external property is all about. Yeah, that. And so I don't have any guess on what that means but I'm going to trust that Gavin knows this stuff really really well. Yeah. Okay, so I'm going to say, all right. I'm going to say that all right so make Megan I, and I reviewed this during documentation office hours hours. We think it is a very nice improvement. We checked various screen sizes. Various widths. And saw no issues at any of the widths. You think it is ready to ship. On the sample that we were looking at, can we click on those. Does anything happen is it just those actors so we'll do is take you to this page that is the expected location so that's good. What I wonder is if the external property takes us to something different. And it probably does. I just, in this case the property has no value so I would not expect to be going anywhere, particularly useful. Right. Okay, so I'm going to say calm comment and then I'm going to give an approval. See, here we go. Okay. Very cool. All right. Okay with that. Yep. And let's take the next one. So, I'm going to note here approved by Mark and Meg. Great. The next one is very large. Okay. This is, and I'm, I'm quite impressed by Vandit sings work on in the documentation, because Vandit has accepted has taken on quite challenging topics and done very well with them in this one. An updating section. So just like we have installing Jenkins. Yes, we noted that we really need an updating Jenkins section as well discussion. Yes. But when we look at installing Jenkins. We're reminded that installing Jenkins is not just one page. It's, let's get it here. Installing Jenkins is one, two, three, four, five, six, seven pages, eight pages. So eight distinct ways of doing the install, plus offline yet another so so we've got eight or nine depending how you count them ways to do installation and upgrade is different in each of them. Right. So, so upgrade is likely to be every bit as complicated as initial install. So let's take a look at the, the prototype deployment. Okay, so documentation and it intentionally is not in the initial table of contents in the at the top level menu. Here's installing and updating is here. Okay. So first let's remind ourselves which things are here so Docker, Kubernetes, Linux, Mac, Windows, other and war. Linux, Mac, Windows, other so we're missing Docker. Okay, but let's look at at Linux at least and see what what it tells us here. Service. No, no, no, no, no. Okay, already I see a problem. One, it's not. There isn't always a servant. I'm not sure that there's always a service command. Let me see on on rich service. Oh, no, there is on. Okay. All right. Is this part of standard. Okay. All right, so let me check with one other place. Oh, yes. Okay. All right. One tax is service script command so it's service Jenkins stop. Oh, except. That will work. Okay, good. There's a reason we read man pages. Okay, so here service runs a system five in its script. And as predictable an environment as possible. So the problem is Jenkins know you'll no longer use a system five in it. Right. We use system D now. And so it needs to use system control rather than than service. And I believe the command is stopped but here again it may be that there's not much point in doing the stop. Yeah, so, okay, so this one at least needs to be changed to use system control rather than system D, or rather than than system five in it. Yeah. Okay, so back here. And let's go find the comments. Are you okay with this Meg is how we're approaching this. Okay, so see it was it was service. Okay, yeah. So system CTL Jenkins on Linux variants Jenkins installed with Linux installers uses system D. The service command on red hat enterprise Linux, and its derivatives says that it runs system five in its scripts. It does not mention running system D scripts, commands. This section was for Linux right. Right. Well, it's for all variants of Linux. So the Ubuntu 2020 2024 service man page says that it runs both system five in it and system D commands. So I think we should use system D, rather than using system five in it. Yeah. So system control and now I've got to look up the syntax. So just a minute while we do that system CTL managing system D services and let's look at stopping services. Stop Jenkins. Okay, there we go. Okay. All right, so take a backup here. I think rather we should link to the backup instructions because this could be a terrible way to do a backup. There are, for instance with snapshotting file systems there are significantly better ways to do a backup. Right. So now let's find those better ways. Back up. Nope, that's not it. So how about it was I don't remember if it was managing Jenkins or administering. Yeah, so it must be system administration. Yes, backing up and restoring Jenkins. Okay, here we go. This, I remember this this gives instructions about which things you must backup which are not required to be backed up, etc. Yeah, so let's link to replace with a link to the backup page. Because there, there are many different ways to perform a backup. And they depend on the environment. For example, if running Ubuntu 20 20 or 20 to four with BTR FS file system. The best backup. Maybe to take a file system snapshot. Not a tar file. Right. It's faster. Likewise, with open Susie. 15.4. Or is it that. Oh, no, no, I take it back. It's not BTR FS and CFS likewise open 15 for with BTR FS. It's open Susie that does butter file system. And CFS from the BSD people is is on Ubuntu. So now we need to replace this with see the backup instructions for see the backup instructions for alternatives. And now we turn this into a hyperlink. Okay, and take that out. Seem reasonable so far Meg. It's reasonable. Should we do that chapter have verification should we say, um, backup and verify. Or. Action. Yes, so it's it's actually in the it's actually in right it's here validating a backup. So it definitely is part of it. But I'm not sure that I'm ready to put validate into the. This is a pure safeguard. But good question, should we. But I'm thinking a backup that's not been verified. It's not a. It's not that's, that's a really scary thing, right? That's. And, you know, people read the first half and now here's how I do my backup and. I don't know how much would you wish mother just want to become on this stuff and there you've got to draw the line so. Yeah, I'm going to leave it as is although actually I see that I've done damage here that I need to take this out. Oh, and I can't. Okay. Okay. Should not be in a cold code block. Because we don't want to we should not describe all the alternatives, all the backup alternatives here. Right. Link them to the correct page. All right, ready to continue our reading. I can. Take the backup. Okay, so where is. Okay. This is completely unnecessary. Since we tell them to do a backup and they read the directions. Not needed. Either included in the backup. Or downloaded again. Hey, now the capitalization here is. Download the new LTS version. Oh, no, this is not how it's done. Okay. No. All right, this is not at all how we don't we must not upgrade. Upgrade by copying in a new war file. If the previous installation was done. If it was done with a dab file. Or an RPM. Since we, since we don't upgrade. Must be performed by the same command that performed the initial install, or the same type of command as the initial install. So that is specific to the operating system distribution. To the Linux distribution. So this is going to need significant rework. Okay, start the Jenkins service. And again, this is system control. Start Jenkins. If I remember right, isn't that what we saw earlier? The operating system. Yes, system control started. Use system D. Not system five. Okay. So given that it feels like maybe we should remove this entire section of stop this because none of you don't have to do the stop if you use the operating system tooling. It will do the stop for you. The backup. Maybe we should include that. That's a that's a healthy thing we don't need this one. So maybe what we do is we have a single step which is take the backup. And everything else gets deleted. Okay, this is wrong. Okay, this is is I don't know where that's, that's wrong and been wrong for a while. Okay, good. And this one I don't know. All right, so we've got this this needs to get significant rework because Vandit has also placed these headings in a different style than the installing Jenkins headings. So if we look here, red hat centos is a much, a much higher level of heading. And I think that's the way we would prefer it. So here in Linux, there should be red hats and toes. Debian. What are the others that are there. Debian. Oh fedora, right. And then red hat and centos. So my apologies major major changes here and I think this will best be done by by me or somebody else going through and reworking this pull request. Yeah, to fit the same as the current as the current documentation structure. Okay. It's still a nice start even if it needs work. It is well and it's it's a very brave and bold start right that's that's really great. It's wonderful but that such a bold move to say hey, I'm going to do this. Okay, so as far as I know, let's test this and see if this is still a real issue. I'm not aware of that being a real issue resolved. Five years ago. Yeah, as far as I know that is just that is no longer relevant. So, this issue was fixed five years ago. No need to mention. And then this one is no longer, no longer required. I'm not aware of Jenkins as of the Jenkins transition because due to the Jenkins transition from system five in it to system D. Okay, so that's that's improved. This is no longer needed. Okay, whoops whoops whoops here and we've got another one that's an interesting problem here you'll you'll enjoy this one. So what we see here and oh just a minute. Okay, so no longer needed. Hey the next one this is a fun one because you'll recognize it from previous experience update the controller with apt get install update operation center with some other command. And so the answer here is Jenkins does not have any thing called operation center. That is a cloud that is a part of the cloud these products, we don't document. We rely on cloud bees to document their products. Okay, now this one. Same thing. Is it zipper install I thought it was zipper upgrade. Hey now I've got to go do a quick check make just a minute when Susie what does it do this upgrade. Okay, let's try it upgrade Jenkins upgrade update. Okay, so it says hey you're already at the newest version, but it is up update Jenkins not upgrade. Okay, there. Alright, onwards. Whoops where it might. Okay, so then this. So Mac OS. Okay Mac OS is a separate page. Oh, here it is okay and this is a separate page okay. Okay. Warns other systems free BSD. When you install from PKG upgrade with PKG and use PKG update. Okay, and then PKG upgrade Jenkins. Alright, let's double check that update. Yes, okay update the repositories and then upgrade. Upgrade a package to a newer version. Okay. Upgrade and package name yep. So that's right. Okay, and then is it on free BSD man service because they use system five in it. Service restart. No script and yes okay good. Service script command. Okay, so let's see so service script. Yes, that's right. Okay so free BSD looks good.  Now okay so this is describing the Jenkins war file can be. This line seems like this line is described was describing something different, not an upgrade. I forgot I forgot all this. Okay, but wasn't that that was the war file you didn't actually upgrade you remove the old war file and put the new one in. Correct. So what you do is then that's what they say is replace the Jenkins war file with the latest version. Right. So, but this needs to say down it says download it to an appropriate directory, and then run the command. Yeah, okay I don't know why that statement is there open a terminal commit. So, it really shouldn't just be replaced the war file. Yeah, download a new version and replace it. But it's quite. I don't mind the extra. It's, it's always amazing some of these people that are doing really sophisticated things how they mess up on the simplest stuff so right so extra words here are probably okay. In a sense. So, given that we're, we're pretty much out of time. I'd say let's leave this well maybe we can see through this, this windows step okay upgrade steps on windows. Okay this needs. This needs instructions needs instructions. That guide the user to upgrade. The same technique. No, that's the wrong way. One question needs instructions to guide the user to upgrade with the same technique they used for installation. If they installed with MSI, they should upgrade with MSI. If they installed by copying the war file. They should upgrade by replacing the war file. Okay, good. Meg you've been heroically patient through this thank you very much. I'm just impressed that some kid did I mean God I hate doing this which because he's got all of these different options. Right exactly this. This is really detailed complicated stuff right it's it's enormously so. And so, yes, make the make my case tax crime and I reviewed this during docs office hours, 20 January 2023. Because it will be available if it helps. Great. I'm going to submit. Thank you. So Meg I'd propose we call an end for that to that this effort for the moment we're just a few minutes before an hour. And I need, I need some downtime. Are you okay with that. Absolutely fine with that. Alright so so we made something good good. We did yes. We have minutes of review of the pull request in the office hours. Great. All right. Thanks very much Meg. Should we just for record. Do we say anything to say that somebody is doing a really good job here. Yes, fun needs work on this pull request is is impressive. But you know if I see that it that you spent 40 minutes of reviewing and didn't approve it I'd like, you know as somebody in over their head and it's like no you would just bit off a big chunk. Right, right. Great, great details and great content on a huge topic. We never expected that a new contributor would work on the work on the upgrade guide. And to do such good work on it. And do such a good job right. Yeah. Great. Yeah. Put it down for people who don't watch the recording make sure that's. Yes. And, and the next one is the next one I don't suppose is a small small enough one we're going to get rid of it. Well the next one is is needs a an installation to duplicate the instructions. Okay, and in order to do the install it will take much more than two minutes to do the install right. I mean I love, I love that they did it light HTTB D is a really nice reverse proxy. And so just like engine X and squid and Apache, we've got one more way to do reverse proxying. And so it's it's very nice that they did the writing, but this particular example. It feels like it's written by somebody who is an expert in light HTTB D, and I'm not so I'll be when I read it, I'll do things that probably would surprise them, which is good. Well, it helps us make the documentation better right it's okay and amateur did it and said gee I need to know this and this and this. Yep. But not a quick review. No no no definitely not great we're getting these substantive. It really is it's quite impressive the content that we're getting so really delightful. Yeah, any other topics we need to go over Meg. I don't think so. Thank you very much for your time. Thank you.


Naval District, Washington celebrated the 74th anniversary of the Battle of Midway, the turning point of the Pacific, at the Navy Memorial in Washington, D.C. The ceremony featured remarks from Vice Chief of Naval Operations Admiral Bill Moran. Yorktown was lost that day. Over 300 souls perished. But I believe on that moment and that day, even though the Yorktown perished, our spirit as a Navy was born. No one gave up. Even under heavy attack, the outlook was very dim. The crew never quit. That tenacity, that never-say-quit attitude, became part of the young Navy at the time, part of our DNA. For more information about the Battle of Midway, visit the Naval History and Heritage Command website.


What is up a welcome back? Do you like to do it build it or make it so do we and we have new videos each week every Tuesday and Friday? What is up hangers? How's it going? Oh? I had my printouts. I put them down somewhere and pretty much I laid them down Anyway today we're doing a viewer requests. You can have these two yucky ones Oh So a beautiful assistant Tanner, right? Oh, this is how we're doing them Okay, I'm doing Michael Myers and Jason Jason I'm doing Beetlejuice Beetle Beetle Don't say it. I should have covered you. Yeah, don't say it You like when I cover your mouth. She loves it. I've never done it. I wouldn't do it I know better. All right, who do we have today? Oh, I see Tyra of course always up top Helen Chuck Matt Big Scooby Carla Steve Jennifer Ashton Minnesota makes Jerry Chris Chris Chris I knew it bands chat Trudy Trudy You're better with the the trucker names. I see Mark and Teresa and Terry What's happening everybody? There's more. Let's get down Chantel Joanne T-town t-shirts. What's up? Kimberly Lance. How are you guys do it up in the Maryland area? Melinda Let's get to it because one of ours might be difficult This is getting me to order a thunder laser. All right. Yeah, I guess we're gonna be two of them You know, we couldn't go another week without getting this giant head out. This is big ginormous Like Like it's a big scary Big scary.  Yeah, you can All right, who's impressed I want you to know that Garrett took a picture a photo of Michael Keaton dressed as Beetlejuice and Used that to make this actual SVG of Beetlejuice I Have to give you props for that. That was pretty impressive And then he kept flipping back and forth to show me once he got well as he was doing it because I was asking different Yeah, because she was like whoa Who's painting that? I was like calm down. I'm just getting started Yeah, I was like, how are you painting it? Yeah So you see his suit is all one piece All right, see we've got suits two pieces.  It's okay. This is supposed to be like shot out area. I think it's okay if it Goes away All right, well, we'll save his body for another time. I'll just kick something else out of there We'll start with the backer. The tombstone. I actually took was a picture of a toy But it was a good enough image that I could do an image trace on that. Oh, I saw that so our desks are back to back So sometimes when I turn around or I get up to leave or walk away. I see what he's designing over there All right, help me out. There's something in my eye. Can you see it? Is there a big? I Figure it out. I might have to go I might have to step away because I could feel a big piece of hair in my face Yeah powder room so what's happening every okay, I can't wait I got drama all of a sudden what is happening Okay, let me see what's happening over here. Let me say hello to everybody and then I'll start painting mine Two Tuesdays in a row. Yeah, that was Kim Lance. She's the man to choose We are doing good, I hope you're doing good as well Oh, Chris says she's living in an RV for the next month lucky digging out my x-tool this weekend I've got a craft fair on separate September 30th to get ready for it Wait to hear how that goes because you know, we keep talking about doing that I'm gonna have to go get whatever lint is in my eye Like it's blocking my vision there. Can't see it, but like I see a blurry Yeah, I didn't see anything there Think you're a hypochondriac sure good is to bear. Oh Hey, Sue bear Nice shirts Helen said nice shirts. Thanks. These are what we wear We just had these on over the weekend for a brewery shop We were doing and this is what we wear. We did go sometimes sometimes traveling our traveling pigs And so Garrett had his on and I had another one in the shipping room So I threw this this is actually his it's kind of a it's an extra large, but I threw it on because one it's comfortable and Two it was convenient We can be matching still Matt is here again and Matt again Madagascar and Matt again Bernie says she watches us a set of working She missed she joined our patreon group, but miss last week's get-together Next time it's on tanner's laptop. So I Haven't been able to get to it And I forgot to tell tanner to upload it. Lois almost made it on time You made it on time because I'm just now getting to your comments. So Just Beetlejuice looks scary I Told him to make him kind of funny and comical So we'll see how his face actually turns out when I well after I cut it I decided I'm gonna dump it down just a little bit and I knew it was coming Helen what what do you think Helen said? Before she even before we even get that far. What do you think of her first thoughts where she's not painting that? As in it looks too detailed and too complicated. I Keep telling them we got to have some easy signs in there. This one's an easy one I'm gonna be done in here in a just a lickety-split like just a few minutes You'll be surprised with this one this one will be able to pump out This one was designed for oh Lois, I don't know where your wrench went Lois. Oh Self a note that I'll never come back and look at I can only put you on time out so Helen tried but she can't do it I Gareth these would be a perfect file for the glow in the dark. Oh, man. Don't get me started. I got glow in the dark coming up and Jeff says hello from Cypress, Texas Halloween I mean Angela says she's excited about the Halloween and Helen says over we have a reputation All right, what do you think they might do in this and I see you've got Is it a white backer? Yeah, or it is a white backer. Okay, or is it like your choice? It's I designed it. That's white. Okay in illustrator. Okay. That's pure white. I Got you. All right, you're gonna have to Chat for a minute because I've got to go fix my yeah, right. Oh, I thought I went and fixed your eye That's how much I was paying attention that's That was bad. I feel bad about I Was in it though. I was really getting into my my painting So that's on her Think I'm gonna need some custom colors today Start with my big colors. I Guess this is just pure white, right if you just pure white and some krypton Those pieces I don't need most of these pieces. That's cold pure water. Oh You know what I think I might Antique white This is the Michael mask or pure white. I'm thinking pure white. I Know you're thinking pure white too, so I agree with you Is that pure white White right Kim had it got the cap can for them All right, who still dresses up for Halloween? Who dresses up for Halloween and doesn't have kids. Hey, what's up, Michael? How's it going? I? Just saw your name pop up Angela Happy Halloween Did you get it? Yes, I'm all good now. Thank you. I did fine. It was a piece of land Found it removed it. I should be good Whoa, you're going right in for the poor on the backer, huh? Well, I was not squeezing out And I was either gonna get oh You took my roll way Yeah, yeah, you can have it right back. I'm almost done. I'll be done in a second Because mine's so fast So fast so fast You could probably just do it one coat Yes, Kim says to Mike and I have to come and make a trip to come and see guys Well, we'll meet you halfway if you want to meet for dinner or something Oh, man, we're just in Maryland and we thought about it, too We were there for his mom's birthday. We were busy doing Kid things here. Yeah Sweep swap Michael says hello evangelist grizzles says hello evangelist grizzle Lois wants Charlie Brown and the Christmas tree Well, you know, he was back to Snoopy this week Yeah, I had a Charlie Brown and a Christmas tree. I was at Christmas tree I can't remember. I know he was on Snoopy and I said, okay, unless you plan to put this in our store and sell it then I don't want to Disappear cuz we got some We don't we really got some not. Yeah, we really do not get some hate Maybe Geert's arms get some hate but other than that people are very nice on the YouTube's to us and this guy He was not happy He's I teased him with the The Snoopy. Yes, he said there was no sense in watching if he wasn't going to be able to Make the files that we show Like I said, well, I told him the patrons Yeah, jump over on patron because I don't feel bad for giving them those files like that like Be I'm trying to avoid the word Nationally in poons.  Hold on. I wish I could search sometimes. I want to go back and find something So don't forget Rick Fred Rick says hello Fred said hello Cindy. These are people we missed before. Oh, what's up, Rick? I might have missed earlier Sue bears as I was thinking I could make things by Christmas totally forgot about Halloween Oh, man, Halloween. Hey Chris Howard, your boards went out almost didn't go out because Our teen is still working with us and she had a four o'clock peak the UPS guy comes and they were sitting on the shelf out there I was like that package needs to go to the UPS guy. So we ran it outside just before the live Actually, he came up to the door. He came all the way in and picked it up. I was surprised Thanks, UPS. Yeah, nice guy Kevin and Penny says do you use exterior paint for all the colors? Yes, everything is exterior paint. That's right Foxy Hughes paints right here With the MDF is it all right to hang outside on our door? Yes, you can absolutely We had some lady fine some lady brought one in that was two years old still look good. We had to re-glued the Hey, did you just give her a new one? Yeah, good cuz I threw the other one away Well, I have one left over it was a summer flip flops and I was like I'm just I mean, what am I gonna do with this set until next year So I just swapped it out and that way I didn't have to just go Cut what was it a flip flop or something? She was in an E. Oh the E in the top of the flip flop. Yes, and I was like, I'm just gonna give her one But that thing yes, that thing it seems of things that have been around it was definitely that was a testimony That was a season MDF does hold up chew. I think don't let anybody tell you otherwise You'd have any Men have something to come in and say at the booth about MDF Yeah There is something to say this won't hold up. I mean like you'd be surprised Oh Contra mo frayer So I'm always saying to him. Yeah, that's what you say. That goes over well. It does Well, I see that this guy is filled with gray and I'm not planning to do that, okay I'm not gonna put all that. I don't think it needs it. Okay. I don't think it needs it I don't think it'll take away me and Helen say And then nobody got time to put those little pieces back in. Yeah This is test cut cam test cut. I know I'm not gonna give you a hard time. Don't give me no guff All right This one's a little bit tricky. I got all these slivers here I can make those gray But I'm missing the eye in here You don't need it. It's a tombstone. I don't think it'll take away from anything if you're missing it I don't know if I dropped it or if it's over here on this table, but I guess I'll figure it out in a few You don't want them on top No, because on the picture. It looks like it's inset. Yeah, it looks like it's inset. Yeah, I got you I was trying to make it look inset I almost engraved it and then we were paint it red and then paint it later No, I don't think I like that. I didn't think you would that's why I went the way I did. All right, what's happening over here? James Says he's here. He's late, but he's here. What's up James? How's it going? How's your day been? Bernice says she's driving home listening to us What else is going on? Oh Scott wants to know if we can he can get a fence picket leaner I know you already know where this is going. What kind of leaner do we need that we don't have? Scott Hamels asking the horror guys Yeah Yep, I fence picket leaner with like the narrow you know what will be great with okay So while you're all here, I need you to vote right? everybody put in your top four like Horror person villain character Because Kim and I could not agree My I'm stuck in the 80s with my horror stuff So all my horror stuff was like 80s horror stuff and I don't like Chucky. I thought it was It was not a scary movie. I did not enjoy Chucky Well, not scared you're I feel like you're leading the answers here. I might be okay Give me your votes. Give me your like top four horror characters And then I'll go through here and I'll make the pickets the top four horror characters All right. Yeah, that'll work. I need this to dry Here's a hand I tried to connect most of the letters. I don't want to get the beat too close. It was looking corny So I backed it off some let it fly so low Could you nest the cut like nest light colors together and paint before engraving? Um, yeah, no because then I mean I guess you you could you could could we No, because they would be on the laser and you'd have to You mean like paint the boards and then we have tried painting Yeah, we tried painting the boards and cutting them in I don't know and cutting them in the the colors separate colors, but That was a pain in the butt and things were getting lost While we were waiting for other things to cut or I'd have to line it up in light burn And I'd have to remember and frame out the yellow board and then frame out the orange board and frame out I'd rather just throw a board in there cut it and then paint the pieces and put it together Otherwise things are getting we had boxes and just boxes of like popsicle tops we had boxes of Ours for summer for flip-flops. It was still do. Yeah, and now we still have boxes of those things Where we were cleaning up the back and came across those But um, if you're not doing it's because we have so many I mean it depends if you're not making a ton of them Then well, you probably would need to group it, but there what color is this? That is the dorian gray What does that look like? That looks like This? No Yeah, that's agreeable This there you go. Hey, good job. Good. Good. All right.  That was Good, like you said, that was quick.  I think he needs a nose I think you get the gist from the Face and the hair You know, I think I need to bring it down more like a cousin Eddie All right, speedal juices grass. I see you have picked a random green Is this uh, I wanted it to be two greens or electric lime I planned on it being like Oh, yeah, like garden spot and electric lamp one was one and one was the other So they gave it some depth, you know, I'm saying I hear you which is so electric lime on top And garden spot on the bottom. Yeah, I know I want to do this He's not listening. Huh? I just got an idea. I just got some ideas over here My ideas started flowing about how I want to paint this guy because I have so much time I have so much time that I can Start to get a little artistic with this guy Just okay Let's see There's a santi. Are you uh, let me go back hold on Oh, you're getting some votes here. I'm missing them. Oh, yeah So many pieces.  All right, don't love you you second the leaner. You gotta give me your top four. Let's see I got some votes Oh, Mandy's here. Lol. That was me on my husband's account. James. Okay, Mandy You got to tell us when you're going live on What not I have carrots so funny. He's so upset that he missed it I wrote that and I know christians on there and I went both of their both their accounts and I said um Notifying I even turn on notifications. I don't even turn on notifications for any other apps If you're lucky All right, so you got some votes here. Let me see what I've got so Michael Myers freddy jason and leather face Ooh leather face Pennywise jason freddy and michael All right. Well, it sounds like we got no no chucky and divin to doll is horrible Somebody else said leather face Helen said scream jason michael Myers and the it clown She voted by how easy they are to make Yep, it's exactly what I thought as soon as I read as soon as I heard those I was like, okay I like those because they're all easy to do. I got ideas for those Uh, my goodness Trudy says questions to all you hangers. My laser is in a very well ventilated area with extra exhaust with an extra exhaust fan, but every time I cut him df I end up in the er Or urgent care like this morning and I'm wearing a mask What? Wow, that's interesting. Um, Helen said maybe you're allergic. I mean maybe because You or something isn't ventilating right because you shouldn't You shouldn't Be struggling that hard. What are they saying when you go to the hospital? Are they giving you like any good information? Is your are you venting right out the house or directly out of a window or are you using a filter I mean we use our filter this room here does not have an outside. This thing is old and crusty It does not have an outside window Preventing so we just use the filter and it works well I still don't like to hang out in here with it because I don't want to breathe anything extra but I But I could I could hang out in here if I needed to It sounds like you're just gonna have to Get an RV live on the road and do all your cutting outdoors But what was that guy? Oh, yeah, what was his name? Ben? Yeah, gentle Ben gentle Ben. Yep That's it. Now you need you're gonna need some kind of Some kind of animal sidekick. I don't care if it's gentle Ben flipper I see your pick But I feel like that's your only option. All right, I'm getting the glue in Yes, so Maggie you can pretty much use any exterior house paint We are coming out with our own exterior house paint here in the next month. Well, not even like as soon as we can get it bottled We'll gotta get those labels printed and our labels printed so We'll have some in smaller quantities And if you want to put it in the FIFO bottles, you can that's something to think about I think the FIFO bottles are 16 ounces. So we should probably have a 16 ounce bottle You didn't let it goes into the six to the yeah Anyway, uh any x outdoor house paint will work really what you're trying to do is just get some of that out exterior house paint properties and Do we put them in the FIFO bottles? Yes, we usually we buy it by the gallon Um because well now we buy it by the gallons Yeah, sometimes We buy it by the court if there's a color that I know we don't use very often At least that's how I started. I used to start it with the courts But now everything I just get everything in a gallon But we're painting a lot of signs for craft shows It waits, you know hold from one season to the next. So if I'm using like a You know the bright purple that's really a halloween purple And I really don't use it in the spring or maybe just very little in the spring Then it'll wait until next year. What's what's your what's your drama over here? Do you have the glue? Oh, are you ready to glue? Yeah There are like four things of glue here. You just kind of cover them Or we covered them up with these Oh, the old micro tip This will do. Okay. I got this one. This is working This is gonna work for it Better work. I had another one too All right, what am I doing? Actually, this is not bad. This is not bad I'm moving on to the tombstone Actually, I might give one more coat on these It can't be that bad if you go it in for a second coat. You must not be that intimidated I always put a second coat Almost always almost always that's why they called you to go Kim. What she threw away or you threw it away kick kick us Oh, that's right. I got a whole new roller. Yes. Thank you. Thank you. Oh, there's your rest of your glues I mean I had gotten a ton of them right here in this bucket If you need more Oh, this one's good So we did another workshop at a brewery on sunday Oh, man. It was such a good workshop. Yeah, that was great people great time We had like, uh, 10 people register. It was the first time we had done it at this location Uh, which was down there. It's very like a very scenic location right on the river And I was a little afraid 10 10 register registrants and then we had two walk-ins We were we're prepared. I figured yeah, we were prepared. Yeah, so prepared so prepared I knew this was coming That we did forget one item Just one item we just forgot. That's not what I thought you were going to say.  I was like, well, don't forget. We need to bring some extras We're likely to have walk-ins because we've had a lot of registrations here like at the last minute And he was like, okay, so he comes back with a bunch of Like four monograms and I said, okay out of all the letters in the alphabet You're going to randomly bring me an a an m an r And a j and I said, yes, I looked it up and these are the most popular last themes in virginia And so I was like, okay, and luckily he had a couple of like the don't be a prick with the cactus on it and a couple of other things and sure enough the two people that walked in it was a couple One of them had an a first name and one of them had an r last name And they were like, well, we'll do the two monograms. I was like, are you kidding me? And then but ultimately she didn't do a monogram.  She thought that was very funny So do I? But yeah, so Hold on So yeah, we get there and we're getting ready to get started. We've got everybody set seated Aprons on every paint everything set up ready to go and Garrett goes Where the handles We're getting ready to give our whole field. I was getting ready to give the they're done in five easy steps minus one And I went to get a a roller handle And none were none were available. Yeah, I didn't I forgot to bring them Just forgot to bring them But it worked out. We were doing ten inch signs. We hit shrunk thing and made little stands for them and I figured ten inch signs were better for this kind of environment For a larger group and I didn't know what kind of space it was a bit of a cool smaller space so Um It actually worked out better when we ended up using the sponges So I gave everybody foam sponges luckily I had brought tons of those thank goodness I did so they weren't sharing sponges But and I'm also glad that we did the sponges because A lot of them were just monograms and they would have been done and gone But because everybody had to stay and hang out a little bit There's some friendships made It was a good time good times to be had It was it was entertaining All right, so there was a there was a first date that there was there Yeah, that was interesting. That was the first date. We got to see those guys. That was fun And I think it they took their time dabbing and drinking and stuff and I think it was good that they had some time like that That was a little matchmaker. I was feeling a little matchmaker Were you over there helping or hurting? I In my head it was helpful You're pretty sure it was helpful. I was telling the guy how he's you're doing a great job. Look at that.  You're doing such a good job So I do all the time such a good boy All right, if you guys can see his suit is just two pieces We're going to paint the back black And then we're going to add the white on top And look at that. That was pretty that's pretty good. That's pretty impressive Right. I think it's just the face. That's That's the hard part And his hands I need these Hands and the wrist. Oh this goes with this All right. I want to save that This might be a little detail over here. I'll show you I'm not throwing anything away yet. Yeah, I wouldn't I wouldn't if I were you Well, you ain't me. Whoa Bring co-miner's daughter came out of nowhere Uh All right, what else I didn't even get to finish all these so we started talking Oh Oh the it clown. Yep, somebody was like definitely the it clown All right back back michael Jason freddy michael pennywise Same freddy michael jason pennywise or pinhead It clown Definitely the it clown. Yeah, it's definitely sounds like the it clown I don't know but I get the same with wood as well. Okay, somebody else talking about Uh Having trouble breathing Oh, I well I'm way back here. Sorry guys. I'm way behind So Helen said she wanted to say something but she didn't want to be inappropriate So she's gonna leave it and then of course lois is like no spit it out No, since I'm not being appropriate now. I want to shout out to kilo first You're not gonna hurt anybody's feelings on this side of the camera I'll sit that side because I gotta come back to that There's kind of a lot of flipping around here This would be easier. I think if I had a little more space Yeah, yeah Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Oh, yeah. Yeah, you would don't you know Mandy says that they're a little break from whatnot because um And selling in general because they're packing up the apartment closing in eight days. Oh, yeah, that's right. You got a new house Yeah, that's right Don't know when I became uncle earl It's right new house. Oh here this almost lost the tie. Where is his hair? This is hair the base All right, his face is a bit much you guys I told you it was I feel like there was a disclaimer. Wow that thing looks cool I still think These need to be more round. What do you guys think? No, it's like on the side of his face At an angle. Yeah, it looks more three-dimensional And then there's only three color old four colors The easy guy right you can pump these out. I don't know if you want to pump it out. You want to pump it out What do you think? I tried to make it easy so that We those that go to the craft shows You can pump this guy out Maybe a little bit smaller Let's hit. Well, let's see Does it look like the perspective is on? Yeah, I would say that's about right. It's about what a hockey mask looks like, right? Yeah All right, do you need help over there? Um, yeah, you can help 440 we're doing all right I'm gonna take coffee break. Well, you can check some comments because the iPad just died. Oh, all right. Let me check them out Do you know why I don't have a charge.  For Michael Myers. Well, I was trying to keep it white So that it would definitely stick out from the hockey mask. That's where I was going with that. So That was my thought process You do it. Let me see. Let me see what you got I'm excited to see what other people do now That's the other half of the Making the cook file excitement for me. The first part is cutting it to see if it works The second part is seeing what everybody else does with it So I see you did his oh, it's like a two-tone thing again like a shadow That's good. I think you did a great job But oh, yeah for the uh the ribbon I want to use that black mesh ribbon stuff Make it like crazy hair over top of this the black the uh, so it looks like it's Part of the deco mesh. Yeah Deco mesh All right, looks you're almost done I actually I am almost done. I cut two sets of hands Just in case one set didn't didn't come out Well, they're a little bit different one has a wrist attached to it. Did you break it off?  Well, you're supposed to push those out before you paint it Well, I just saw what's happening here. I'm aware. I'm aware. You make that that rule wasn't that a law of kim Oh, I think his boots are supposed to be black Okay, I've come back Look, I'm gonna do that black tag dealer Kim, you got 13.  I'm focused on getting my All right pieces painted here. Thank you That's that's are closed. Yep All right, you want to see oh, he did have a second tie too. I give my oh you got it. Look at that Okay, yeah, look good Looks good.  Just oh, yeah Great job. That's why you should use this hand It's got the wrist in it Yeah, but that that's that part right there. See that is that part I'm still gonna try to break it though. Okay. I mean if you want to try break it like like that, right? Sure, it works My way or the highway that's how we do it Oh, oh you're here. Let me I thought what happened to it.  I joined the patreon group. That's bless laser designs. Yay One question. Is there ever a time where you offer free shipping for orders over a certain amount? Here's the thing about that. We did at one time. We offered free shipping and Shipping is a killer. Yeah, I am not a big guy. So I don't have tons of money Well, tons of room. I don't have a lot of What's the word I'm looking for money Like extra built-in. I don't know why I can't come up with the right word But we don't have a lot built into our costs our costs are already very low So when I do free shipping, I end up like we were finding that we were making nothing on some of them We were losing money on a lot of them Well, we still lose money on some of the shipping because if the weight right shipping, I mean on orders where we would have Where they would get five kits You know in the end we lost five bucks after shipping after we put everything in all the different boxes. Yeah Yeah So at this time, no until I get it figured out and maybe we have more um profit built into our I try to keep more profit margin. Yeah built in people resell them. So Our margins are slim You've seen our profit calculator. That's what we use We do we always do the math. Okay. How much of a board are we using? All right, if you want to glue some of these pieces together Are you gonna paint his hands or just leave them like that? No, I'm gonna go get that Uh, did you want to do this one? Well, he's uh, I just use that color I think you can use whatever color I think like a gray or something.  Yeah, sure I'll do the tombstone. You want to go back overhead so they can see what's happening? Yeah This is how we did it in the workshop Yeah They had those 10 inch signs. I told them Here's how you can do it. I mean this will work just as fast sometimes You know, oh, look at that. Tanner must be watching. Tanner was watching. Thank you It's a mixed like skin color The mouth was there.  All right make it dirty shed dab it I don't know. Let's lay him on top and see what it looks like Wait, that's Where yeah, where's my little skeleton guys? They're on the frame. Oh, you there are pieces out. Yeah Yeah I got I got him them I got the skeleton guys. Anyway Okay, what's happening over there? You want to give me your phone over here so that I can pay attention? Okay, try I'm doing face painting eyes It's still missing the eye. I haven't looked for it yet It's okay. Beetle juice in red. Okay Did I see the picker tool? You did and I don't know where it went. There it is This little roller here is a little drier than I thought Um, there's a lot of talk about how Chris and Helen can hang with the best of them What is it? And then Helen says you're my people Jerry Oh, it's Jerry. No Jerry is Now I'm confused. Am I got it wrong? You guys help me out. Where's my plate? Chris has been the most of them eggs Jerry is Clicker ak. Yeah, I only want to go back to Alaska because my laser is currently living there Margin thank you Chris. Thank you Yes, that is the word I was looking for Taking the questions a joint patreon group one question. Is there ever a time where you're all for free shipping? Yeah, I answered that Have you guys tried pirate ship?  So our rounds are 16 inches typically But there's so many different things we ship and the boxes are different sizes man, if we've been doing with Um laser boards, you know, we're shipping mdf and there's all those different sizes of mdf We're doing a lot of custom boxes I haven't tried pirate ship because Shopify has their Shopify shipping discounts. What you see is Shopify's discount and shipping rates so I've been scared to go anywhere else, but I could check them out Maybe I could get us some better shipping prices. I mean we're always looking to Ship it cheaper For you guys, you know, I want I want it to be affordable. I know it makes a big difference for me when I Order something online I'm always looking for free shipping as well And I feel real but sometimes I think to myself people have to understand that I'm a small business I'm not Amazon. I can't throw that free shipping in I don't have that kind of math. Um, I mean that kind of uh Like yeah margins built in I guess that's still what I'm trying to say Do you want me to drop this down in there before or is it gonna fit later? I mean doesn't matter now Yeah, I think you should put it in now before Well, like when you glue the thing down Okay, and then I'm gonna give another coat of this gray on this tombstone Michael says he uses pirate ship a couple more and then chris wanted to know where Kevin and penny Where are you in minnesota? She's on leech lake and big scooby is in minnesota to you Yeah, find you guys some friends Help each other out Not about what you know to you know All right, I think oh no And then I need to do one more coat on his backer Oh, Amy tiny hands baker because that is what we have to say every time, Amy Uh, I just ordered some larger mdf. I'm ready to master my pass through this weekend Fun Pass through on what the glow forge Yeah, I think she had the glow forge. There's no mastering. Who's just doing Super easy on the glow forge. Yes So you want me to get his little hands for you or you can do it Are you want me to do it on here? Are they glued on yet? This whole thing glued on no No, nothing's glued. Okay. All right. It's gonna get loud a second Should have warned me I'm done Oh, she said it's not quite as he hers isn't it quite as easy as the glow forge Yeah, it must not be the x-tool either then Because that thing is easy Maybe don't break it Whoa, whoa I don't appreciate the allegations The thing was down for Pass through was down for like three weeks, right? Oh, look at his hands. That looks cool. All right I have yet to try the pass through Sheila says I have yet to try the pass through On the 51 130 thunder still fairly new to it and working on a really cool multi-layer beach scene surfboard That's going to be six foot long. Oh Definitely come back and share with us. Sheila. I want to see it Oh, Sheila Oh, Kristen says my new polar omtech laser came today I've been too busy with life to open the box.  Good I'm excited now. You have to come back and show me what you make with it Kristen Who do you get your mdf from we get ours from worth wood? They're a local supplier But if you can't get it in huge sheets We also sell it Yes, we sell a desktop laser Yes, if you're using like the omtech or the p2 or the glow forge or the glow forge we sell boards that fit This is good. This is their stuff is great mdf and it cuts beautifully It's not like the home depot and Lowe's mdf. Is that like doesn't sounds well Doesn't get all ashy All right. I think can you give me one more coat of green on this just with what's on there? And I'm going to do the back room and we can put ours together too Oh, no, this is ours Oh, I guess it became ours when we both worked on it What are we getting it done today? Yeah, what time is it? It's not even beaker's o'clock yet. Oh, here's christian. Yeah, where is christian? You're not working Nobody's not working. Don't you love a second coat on the back? Or it's so much faster Satisfying because it evens out all the color All right, that's done Kevin and penny says I'm on the verge of buying an omtech polar I think here's the thing. Here's what my thoughts are We say it all the time if you really want a lot of hand-holding I know there's a lot of drama and a lot of bad negative press on the glow forge The glow forge will give you all the hand-holding the x-toe p2 That is mac daddy. It's got all the features and functionality You might have to buy some accessories, but it's going to do everything that you want to do Including all that curved surface engraving just all kinds of stuff And then the omtech polar is a great laser. It's like middle of the road It's a great laser at an affordable price. It does come with two rotary tools So it's a good one to get started with it uses light burns so that you can learn that light burn software When you decide to go up to a bigger machine You'll be ready to go.  So Depending on what your budget is Oops, was that supposed to be black? I think you're good to go really you can't go wrong with any of them. It all depends on What your budget is what you're trying to make Yeah, if you're trying to do a lot of engraving then the diodes are where you're at That's a really affordable to get into doing some lasering But if you're going to do a lot of cutting then you definitely want to move up to that co2 So look at this face going in you got oh, let me go overhead Which one's overhead can you guys see that's not in your way?  Sheila says I've shared some videos on all my page. Sign inspirations on facebook Oh, I think I've been there. Didn't you ask me a question? You needed something recently. I think I've been there for some reason It is looking so cool designing completely from scratch. Nice job And if you're that top tier patron if you ever have any Adobe illustrator questions if you're using illustrator Garrett does those classes Once a month where he's trying to teach illustrator tips and techniques So don't forget you can go out there and do that Yes, thank you. Amy. Amy reminded you guys that if you are looking to order a polar Or any of the x-hole products or the glow forge we do have coupon codes And referral codes save you some money earns us a little money. So don't forget to go out there and use those If you can't find them you can always email me Did you wipe that paint off? I did because I wanted I'm just going to put you another little dab It was so thick. I wanted to My dab was boots too Dab is boots Give us boots of dabbing Dab in the boots You got a boot stoop dabbing Somebody Lois wants to know if any of our designs are compatible with Cricut so she can make like stickers And yes, you can make them with the Cricut. You may have to do different things p and g just depends on what file you're doing it with But we've done it we've shown before how you can use our files and cut them with the different layers Or merge the layers together And cut them with a Cricut Some of them are going to be more difficult than others though All right, there's his second That is one creepy face I stop I'm just saying he is creepy looking, but he is creepy looking, right? Yeah, he's creepy looking But I think I'm gonna delete the face just leave eyes I think I'm gonna get rid of the nose and mouth Not needed Yeah, I think we don't have to have that kind of detail. I'm with you. I hear you I think you know who it is You get it you get the gist with the suit Yes, Helen and and you guys that if you buy if you're gonna use any of our files in the Cricut svg works in Cricut Hello, it says she's had her Cricut for two years never used it No time like the present Starbind question usually use it with wood using it on wool and it's getting really hot. Is this normal? Yeah, I mean I'd have to look that up. I bet yeah, I could find something about that it is Um, are you sure it shouldn't come in one more? Does that seem right? Um, I'm sure it's some sort of chemical reaction But I could look something up if you want I do and or I can even email them and ask them I'm sure they would answer me I'd answer you I want my whole 40 foot space filled with rounds and leaners The whole back wall is pegboard. I can't wait to make them.  That's that'll sue me What is x cs good question? That's x tools creative space. That's their little acronym for x tools creative space It's like and the new release design space release is pretty good. I mean it's given uh Whiteburn the run for its money Jennifer arzola. Hi jenny here. Just made it. I love this file You know me. I'm in love with halloween Yes, and if you're watching thank you.  Yes. Yes We pulled some strings.  I really did. I mean you're gonna ask him. I did not want to read it He'd do a fit We wing it and they were like no, they want us to read this thing And if we do this well, they didn't give us a script. I just wanted to make sure they gave us that we They gave us a script kimbrie wrote it. Yeah these talking points They gave us all these things that they wanted us to say so I had to make sure I got everything in there So I wrote us a full script and I did make him use a teleprompter Which he was not having at all I mean He was like I can't do this and then I was like, okay. Well, did you want to wing half of it? I mean, how are we going to do that? I can use a teleprompter and you could just Add two cents over there and he was like no fine It took us a long time to it was a lot harder than it looks because it kept moving And I'd read and it would jump the screen would jump Or I would read faster than it would come up behind the camera So I'd have to and then I'd have to read I couldn't I live if I I lived at all the machine would get crazy and start jumping around So I had to just Say the words Just say the words Stick to the script Garrett stick to the script But I wanted to use a different word every time I couldn't It's just yeah, we had Quite the drama with that one shish Oh, where does this go underneath Just put it all over there. Why are you doing that? Oh because I'm gonna fill it in with the green. Yeah Yeah, okay, I got you Blim blam. Yeah, I was trying to make that harder than it needed to be I think it'd be best if you put the grass in right away. Mm-hmm All right, are you still overhead you need to go back overhead. Sorry everybody. I thought you just wanted to watch the top of our heads I didn't know you wanted to see stuff All right, I don't know about the two shades of green. We'll see if we like that. Jessica I like the two shades green I think it gives a little All right, and where do you want his you want his body on first? Yeah, this goes on first Hey, it's Subaru. I just had a thought the rounds look like a pizza. I wonder if we could ship with a pizza box. Try it Great question for us We had we just kept coming back Um, and man, did we see some mangled pizza boxes? It's like every time the ups driver saw a pizza box He's like soccer ball. Yes.   Oh, you have another one. I think it works out. Yeah, I think this guy goes in there And then the other one goes on top of it. I don't think I need it Well, I think now it'll be sitting up I think you're gonna have to have Well, I mean it'll oh you're gonna put it at the bottom Like his sleeve I see this thing's coming together um Mandy says she's ships in pizza boxes With a poly male mailer over top. Really? That's good. And if yours don't come back, I guess your ups driver doesn't have a vendetta Yeah, your ups driver doesn't hate you like ours did I guess Yeah, that's we Boxes aren't expensive either Factoring that into the cost like I don't you don't pay any extra for the box, but I do Have to include it's like two dollars and something a box Well, you did a great job pushing these letters together so that they are, you know, like Just a couple of pieces I tried Oh snap Oh We can run out of time You need me to help I need to put the red in I'm just skipping the little juice Excuse me. Pardon me here Dude, you're burning me. I'm on borrowed time here, Kim. I don't know what you're trying to do over there Nothing just putting the grass in You got lost the the eye all together Keep on, I keep on Oh, I don't think that goes this way I think it goes this way Yeah My part was easy Let's see. I'm missing some comments Is star bond hard to use? No, not at all, but I will tell you It's a little hard to squeeze these two ounce bottles if you're going to buy it Make the investment and get the 16 ounce bottle it comes with four Is it like four or five?  Yeah, my two cents on that one Pizza boxes Damage new from experience. Yeah Our ups driver came to our shop one day and tossed a package across the room Then he turned to us and said I always wanted to do that. We were stunned. Oh my gosh. Yeah That's why I took this job so I can mess up packages I think his uh His grandfather was ever knees are Scrooge. I think I miss part of that. Hold up.  Did you get that in there? He's in there. Oh, I think it. Oh, okay. Yeah, that's probably smarter All right. Do you want me to look for the eye and beetle juice? Here lies beetle juice. Oh, no. Do you think we need it? Do you guys think we need the eye and Here lies beetle juice Oh my god Amy said Amy Baker said my FedEx delivery driver Delivered my laser by rolling the box end over end out my driveway It needed a lot of alignment, but it worked. Oh, is that the laser? What the Oh my gosh, that's terrible. I would have been some pain Somebody would have felt some pain because that's painful. That sucks Mandy said maybe it was the last day of the job a lot of things I swore to myself. I'd do the day I quit Yeah You're just a casualty of his last day Michelle ask is the AI iPad version from the other different from the other versions You want to get me going? You want to start something?  There's no shortcut keys. I live by shortcut keys I don't know where like the menu items are. I have to go hunting. I live by shortcut keys And it doesn't work like that on the iPad All right. So you got another comment looks like beetle juice has a is labor intensive Can you ask air to make it with less pieces? I'm good. I'm going to take his face out And then it'll be Like one two for his face his hair I don't think we need the black lines. I think they're just an added extra piece for nothing I felt like it Well, you guys can vote it gave it that A Cartoonie in the thing for you. Yeah, just let me know what you think Text me email me DM me But let me know on facebook actually, you know where I'm the most active is that top tier patreon group on facebook that is like The most active social media I'm on so if you want to hit me up or ask a question That's what I'm usually at On the camera. I don't know how well you can see the red you can see the red really well in person But um Here lies beetle juice. It's kind of maybe hard to see Do you want to go overhead? I could show it like this that you hold it up like this? Yeah, I was talking about okay All right Oh, did I tell you guys about the uh The giveaway go register for the giveaway. Yeah, did we start that right? So go get acrylic or whatever?  We're doing a giveaway two winners Two five hundred dollar coupons one for each per each winner If you already have an x tool product it'll save you on Maybe an accessory that you need or if you do not have an x tool product and you have another laser You can certainly use it on some materials. I don't know you could get that They're smoke filter or they're exhaust filter thing You can get like their beds their materials. Yeah, there's a bunch of stuff you can get over there And I look I had to read it. I had to read a teleprompter for you so Go do it, please Well, it'll be your best chance to win 500 bucks. Yeah, that's what I'm saying There's like maybe I had one in a hundred will win 500 bucks something like that Something like that. Well, I actually think it's like 170 comments now 170 well, is that because we are probably so it's half that yes And if I haven't answered your comment, I'm trying Yeah, Kim yelled at me for getting a little too personal in detail that my comment we said some time yesterday We said a timer 20 minutes. We were going to just answer comments And I look back and he was and I said timer was up and I was like how to go Yeah, was it four eight? You told me it was eight He answered eight comments in 20 minutes and every and the ones that I could see had paragraphs And he's like, well, I mean I wanted to tell him good job on this or that and I said hey I think that's a good idea on a niche I think yep. I think you're on the right track. Here's what I would do too. I think you should do some facebook ads, you know, I just Yes, he wants to sit chit chat all day, but we didn't have the time. We didn't get through all of them I'm working on them. I'll work on them some tonight, too We got to finish up this week's video. We are doing acrylic this week. All right, what do we we're going home to have some dinner What do we have in tonight?  Dad's famous spaghetti or something amazing spaghetti. Dad's amazing spaghetti. We were doing some math if you guys uh Any of our little math wizards out there? Pemdos order of operation. It said Please what is it? Please eat my dad's amazing spaghetti dinner. No, there's something with an m Yeah, my dad. Oh my dad What is it? So anyway, it doesn't matter Please parentheses eat my dad's amazing spaghetti dinner Well, there's no e between the um My oh, yeah exponents exponents We have multiplication division. Yeah, you're right. Yeah, I'm sorry. Anyway Garrett's like, oh, you guys haven't had any of my amazing spaghetti and I was like, you don't make amazing spaghetti And he was like, yes, I do and then I was like, okay, it's been 18 years. Nobody's had your famous spaghetti That's because I don't make it tonight. That's because I don't eat pasta or meat So why am I gonna cook something I don't eat anymore? All right, I'm sorry to take it. Yeah, so we're about out of time. I gotta go make some amazing spaghetti Let me know if you want some I'll give you my special recipe Oh, it's a super secret recipe. It takes forever to make those spaghetti and meatballs The meatballs take forever to make so I gotta get going You gotta get going if you're gonna make your own meatballs and I will see you on Friday where we're doing something with acrylic


Hi everyone, happy Friday and happy new release day. We're coming at you with 2020 Panini Contenders draft pick football, featuring the new draft class, of course, and I guess some old favorites, so we got Mahomes up there, and we got Mahomes, Baker, Mayfield, Doolado. Nice. This is random pack break number one from JaspeysCaseBreaks.com. It's an 18 spot break. We just randomize your names, randomize the pack numbers, and assign you a pack. Now, but before we do that, I'm gonna open up the case first. We're gonna select the three boxes, open up the packs, number the packs, then randomize names and packs, and then open up, open them up. So there you go. So we got plenty more in the store, so check it out on JaspeysCaseBreaks.com. The random pack idea should be pretty, should make things pretty easy for everybody. We don't have to really remember the teams as of yet. There's three boxes here, three boxes here, three boxes there, and then three boxes there. You can see that all the boxes on the top camera as well.  I'm gonna use that one, and we'll go one, two, one, two, three, four. If I roll a five or a six, I'll just roll again. Two, easy. That one right there. And we'll save these for the next break. And for the next break, we'll go one, two, three, four, five, six. Really the easiest way to do it. All right, here's a look at it. Joe Burrow on the front. They're still in their college football gear, of course. Love the cracked ice. So I think each, we got six packs per box, should be an auto per pack. Before we're looking, oh, okay. This is perfect for the pen that I have. Matches the color of Joe Burrow's jersey. There's one, two, three, five, six, seven, eight. Pack nine, 10, 11, and 12. That's a 12, does that look like a 12? That's close enough. 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 15, 16. 17, and 18. All right, now that those are numbered, let's flip back to this screen here. Let's roll it, let's randomize it. Four and a two, six times for each list. One, two, three, four, five, and six, and final time. After six, we've got Matt Buckler down to Jesse. Six times for the pack numbers. And six and final time. After six, we've got pack 16 down to pack eight. And we're gonna do these in numerical order. No one wants to trade, no one needs to trade, right? Matt with 16, Matt S with 14, Porter-Hastake with 13, Daniel Posey with nine, Colton with 15, Matt with four, Tony with 18, Nancy with two, David with seven, Ryan with three, Darren with 17, David with five, Renee with 10, Nancy with 12, Matthew with one, Kevin with 11, Matthew with six, Matthew S with six, and Jesse with eight. So let's sort by column B numerically. And here's what I'm gonna do. I'm actually gonna print these out. Let's print these labels out. I'm just gonna take a second. I'm gonna pause the video really quick. When we come back, we'll have labels printed out. So we can just fly through these packs, load them up, and get them right into the shipping queue for you. Be right back. All right, and we're back. You can see I got all the labels printed out right here. So let's roll. Autograph, a pack, and obviously everything ships. Pack number one is gonna be Matthew Shearer. Good luck. So I don't think there's too many parallels here, and we're just looking at, bam, the autograph. Everything ships though. So a little different from Prism, draft picks, which we've done a lot of, which has a bunch of different parallels. This is just all about the one autograph in here. There are numbered cards in here every once in a while, but I know Matthew has a number of stuff there, so we're gonna keep his name right over here. Nancy with two, so good luck, Nancy. I think Nancy has a couple too. I should keep the master list up as well. All right, Nancy, pack two, good luck. And we've got AJ Dillon. I think I've heard of him. 98 out of 99, you know what else I'm gonna pull up. This is good for I personally like this. We'll start learning the new draft picks. I know AJ Dillon was picked relatively high. Packers, coops saying? Yeah, late second round pick for the Packers. So a nice bowl ticket autograph, Nancy. And here's the rest right here. Nancy has a couple as well. Did I show you these? I think I did. All right, Ryan with pack three. And we got college ticket autograph, Johan Johnson. So Tony, what's going on? All right, thank you, Ryan. Matthew, pack four. Sure is Matt McCrae, this is break number one. And nothing else is sold out after that. There's Tristan Jackson for Matthew. Or if something did sell out while I was doing this break, then it'll happen today. There you go, Tristan Jackson, Matthew Shearer. We'll collect all of Matthew's stuff up here. David, pack five. Haven't seen any big names yet. There's Antoine Winfield Jr. And the rest right here. I know David has a few, so we're gonna slide these over here. I'll be the David de la Peña pile. There's Matthew Shearer again with pack six. And we got Jeff Gladney, college ticket autograph. There's David again, pack seven, lucky seven. Haven't seen this guy yet or two or anything like that. So none of the big quarterbacks as of yet. So let's see if David will get lucky here. Ooh, he gets a Irv Smith to 99, bowl ticket card. And it got Chase Claypool, college ticket autograph. Claypool sounds familiar. I feel like he got, he jumps out at me. Yeah, Claypool was another late or mid-second round pick. Wide receiver out of Notre Dame went to the Steelers. Gonna give Big Ben a little assistance there. All right, Radical, it's going on. Did I say hi to you? I forgot. Hi. It's been a long week. Get everything here too. Jesse, pack eight. And we got Hunter Bryant. There you go, Hunter Bryant and Game Day. Got to still have to find that guy, Joe Burrow. All right, Daniel Posey, pack nine. There it is, Burrow's number. And we got Sean McKeehan, playoff ticket autograph. There you go, add a 18, nice low number on that. All right, so there you go. Does Daniel Posey have any more here? No, you just got one pack. Thanks, Daniel. Let me just leave that, load that up for you. This just makes, if we do it this on this end right here, it'll get things to you even faster. Get it out into the shipping queue even faster. I think Renee just has one, Renee, with pack 10. Good luck. Tyler Huntley, autograph. Let's breeze through that. There you go, Renee. Thank you very much for grabbing your pack. That's Matthew Shearer has another pack to go. I think those are two, David's both, David's two packs right there, so let's clear the table. Thanks, David, for getting in. Kevin Sullivan, you're up next. We've got another Nancy pack. Darren, Matthew, Colton, Matt Buckler, Darren, and Tony who got randomized the last pack, pack 18. And this is break number one. Break number two will be coming up right after this. Another three boxes. Brand new release. All right, Kevin. Pack 11, thank you. See what we got here. Ooh, I saw a little purple there. Now it's Grant Del Pit, his teammate. Joe Burrow's teammate, that is. All right, Kevin with pack 11. There you go, thanks, Kev. Nancy, you got one pack right there. I think this is your final pack, pack 12. Like the football conference. Patrick Goodwin wants to see an Isaiah Simmons autograph. Tony, yes, Henry Ruggs would be great for our Raiders. Callie, what's up? Bob, what's up? Hi, everybody. We've got Javon Kinlaw, I feel like Kinlaw. I gotta learn all these guys. Gotta learn the entire, yeah, he is a first round pick. Kinlaw, Niners, first round pick. A defensive tackle, man. Nick Bosa, Javon Kinlaw, that defense is gonna be wild. Niners' defense is gonna be scary, all right. So that was for Nancy. Let's pack your stuff up, Nance. Thanks for getting in. Darren, you're up next. Break number two coming up after this. Another three box break. Let's forget how long these random pack breaks sometimes take. Time sneaks up on you. All right, Darren, you've got a couple packs, 13 and eventually 17. There you go, nothing earth-shattering yet, boys and girls. So let's see, maybe the Porterhouse steak gets a prime cut here. Ooh, what's this? All right, we've got T. Higgins to 15. And we've got Stephen Montez. Colorado quarterback. All right, got the T. Higgins from Clemson as well. He's the first pick of the second round, wide receiver out of Clemson. So this could be a good one, bangles. So I forgot about T. Higgins going, could be a nice weapon for Joe Burrow. Burrow to Higgins, we wanna hear that for years to come. Burrow to Higgins, touchdown. Matthew, your final pack here, pack 14. And we've got an Adam Troutman. If you do it, why is Troutman, Troutman name sound familiar? Yeah, late third round pick, tied in out of Dayton going to the Saints. Just the rest right there. So we'll collect all of your stuff a little bit later. Matthew Shearer, thank you very much. Once again, forgetting in. Colton with pack 15. And it's Tony Brown. College ticket autograph for you. There's Jake from State Farm. And that's your pack, Colton, thank you very much. All right, Matt Buckler, sweet 16. See what we got here. And Jamaical Hasty from Baylor. I don't think he, unfortunately, maybe he wasn't drafted, I'm afraid. He might have been picked. I feel like he got picked up by somebody as an undrafted free agent. All right, there you go, Matt. Again, you never know. Got to hold on to these guys because they could end up being huge success stories. All right, almost there, folks. Darren, your last pack, pack 17. And Xavier McKinney, Alabama Xavier McKinney college ticket autograph. Does he sound familiar? No, he doesn't sound familiar to me, I'm afraid. But he's a high second round pick, safety out of Alabama, going to the New York football giants. It's always good to have those high draft picks. All right, last but not least is Tony with pack 18. Good luck and thanks everybody for getting in. She is going to get a Kenneth Murray, Kenneth Murray out of Oklahoma. They had a Kyler Murray and now they have a Kenneth Murray out of Oklahoma. There you go, there's Kenneth Murray who I think had to be draft. I think he's a first round pick. Yeah, lying back out Oklahoma first round pick for the Chargers, 23rd overall. So that's not too shabby. You want to get like those first three rounds or something like that, you know what I mean? Those are always pretty nice. There you have it. Joe for jaspyscasebreaks.com. We got more 2020 contenders draft picks football coming up and we've got plenty more that you can get into on jaspyscasebreaks.com. I'm Joe, I'll see you next time for the next one. Bye.


In the last example, we started to move toward causality, building models that allow you to ask counterfactual questions, not just prediction, but what would happen if. Now causality I think is the holy grail. Causal models generalize. That's why physics works so well. It's always the case. Correlations can change from year to year, but if you have a good causal model, this causes this to happen sort of by definition that will generalize to different settings, different cases, different times. These statistics may change if you go from the Wall Street Journal to the New York Times to the Philadelphia Inquirer, the frequencies of word change, but sort of the underlying structure of the syntax should be the same thing and the underlying motivations that describe why people say things. If it's a causal model, it should generalize. Secondly, often we want to take actions. We want to do something and say, what should I do to make this happen? Now we've seen that happen in reinforcement learning, which is about learning actions, but we sort of divorced that from most of our deep learning where we learn correlations that may not be causal. So think of the simplest example, I've got our room, it's wintertime, it's Philadelphia. If the heat is on, what's the room temperature? Probably low. If the heat is off, what's the room temperature? Probably high. Does that mean that I should, what's the causal there? Is the heat being on causing room temperature or is the room temperature causing the heat? Okay, the room temperature is causing the heat. The cold temperature of the room causes the thermostat to go on. We want to know which way we should move these things because in the end we want a model that learns, hey, here's how to adjust the room temperature. And again, we've seen reinforcement learning as this, but if we're just observing the world, it's really hard to tease out causality. Now, finally, I think that causal models mostly live in a more symbolic or discrete space. They don't live in pixel space. They live in objects banging into each other space where they're discrete objects with sizes and masses and positions. And I think that if one wants to learn models that will generalize well with not too much data, then one has to at some sense move toward this more sparse or symbolic representation. One of the many approaches to do that is called recurrent independent mechanisms, yet another approach to try and drive modularity into systems. So imagine, again, something where you're showing your computer a sequence of visual inputs as it watches the world. It's going to then learn in its neural net a set of hidden state each of which the module, the trick which we're going to say is from time to time, one time step to the next, there'll be a sparse communication. There'll be some sort of a attention mechanism learned, of course, through gradient descent. And the attention mechanism will say you only get to pass on information from a small number of these different modules in your hidden state that's passed the next input for the time plus one. So this is a very particular kind of recurrent neural net, rather than full connectivity, we're driving and forcing a sparsity. And the sparsity tends to make models that will generalize better, that will do less overfitting to the particular correlation structure that one is trained on. And we sort of kind of hope maybe we'll learn things that are more causal. They certainly learn things that generalize better on at least the few experiments that have been done so far.