Hello, everybody. Can you hear me? Hello? Cool. I guess it's about 10.30, so let's go ahead and start. My name is Kevin Finzi. I do many things in Fedora, but today I'm going to talk to you about Rawhide and all the stuff that I do in Rawhide, and a lot of things about problems we've run into and interesting things that we fixed and why you should care and all sorts of things about Rawhide. If anyone has questions at any point, just feel free to raise your hand or shout out your question. There will also, of course, hopefully be time at the end for questions. I'm going to look over the past that we've had with Rawhide. Move this a little bit. Then where we're at now, and then some thoughts and problems that we're hitting now, and hopefully we can brainstorm some solutions to some of the things we're seeing. I don't know if you guys can read this. It's kind of small print, but Rawhide is almost 20 years old. This email was sent to the Red Hat Linux Devel List on August 18, 1998, announcing the first Rawhide release. You can see at the bottom there, they dubbed it Rawhide. Of course, over the years, that's changed to Rawhide, just one word. There's a long history here, and we've had it around for a very long time. Looking back at the past, Compose is mostly daily. It was at first turnally and synced out, so there wasn't a whole lot of visibility into what was there until it was synced out. This was just repository trees only. It was groups of packages, no images or artifacts in particular. It was just a tree of a bunch to begin with. Kind of a preview of the next release, but not necessarily an exact copy of what the next release would be, just more like a test-compose type of thing. Then we, of course, had Cora and Extras merge into Fedora. This was the era of MASH. We used a tool called MASH to compose Rawhide. This was done, of course, in the open because Cora and Extras merged out. MASH had multiple architecture support, so it could compose various different architectures. Each instance was separate, so there would be a Spark Rawhide and a PowerPC Rawhide Compose, and all the architectures were kind of done independently on their their own time. This actually, toward the end of MASH's tenure, started producing more than just a tree of packages. We also produced a boot ISO that you could actually use, a net install ISO to install from that tree. And toward the end of this tenure, also, FedMessage started appearing, and we added FedMessage support to MASH so you could see when composes finished and when they started and when it went through various phases as it went along. Let's see what else I was going to mention about MASH. MASH served us long and well, but it certainly had its share of issues. And then along came some more issues that we ran into in the in the MASH era. Failures at this point were a particular kind. Usually what meant that the build route that it was trying to build this compose in failed for some reason, so it was a very fundamental package that broke. It was pretty rare that it happened. It would have to be the installer or the kernel or something very, very low level for this to break. So it didn't break that often. MASH also was built on a code base of YUM and Python 2 and all those great things. And of course, when we started getting new features in RPM, rich dependencies and things like that, it had no concept of them. One of the interesting things we ran into, somebody added rich dependencies to a package in Rawhide back when we were using MASH. And when YUM sees a rich dependency, it looks at it like somebody said requires something or something else and it says requires I can't find package or. So it just bombs out at that point and doesn't process anything after that. So obviously we needed a better solution for all of the new stuff. So of course, along comes Pungy. Pungy is another tool that does use DNF. It is Python 3 aware, et cetera, et cetera. And really one of the fundamental changes here is instead of just building a tree of packages, we wanted to build everything. We wanted to make every compose like we were going to release the whole operating system. And there was a specific reason for this with the old days with MASH and Rawhide. You would go along. MASH would be fine. You could compose a Rawhide tree. Everything would be great there. But then when it came time to actually do a release, you found all these problems. You couldn't build images. You had dependency problems or whatever. And so we specifically wanted to make things as like a real compose for a release as we possibly could. Pungy actually produces all the images. And everything that it produces is like it was a full release. So all the ISO images are there. All the check sums are there. All the trees, all of everything that would be in a regular release is there in each nightly compose. Of course, this presented a much higher surface area, right? So before, the only thing that could break the composers were things that were in the build route are very fundamental things. And now since we're building all of this stuff, anything that breaks any of those things that we require is going to cause the compose to fail. So obviously we have a different issue here. One of the things we also added is Dusty here. I don't see him now. Dusty actually came up with this idea and it's been very helpful for us. He set up a Paguer instance and it listens on Fed messages. And when a compose fails, it writes a ticket and shows all of the tasks that failed. So one thing that's been really helpful for us coordinating. But one of the things that this has been really helpful for is coordinating between people trying to fix problems. Because often there's multiple problems or people one person starts working on it doesn't tell other people and they start working on it, etc. So if you're curious as to what's failing the compose or what's going on or who's working on it or what not, you can look in this issue tracker and see what the most recent compose failure was and what the release engineering folks think is going on on that. It's a bit overwhelming because obviously we do a compose every day. So if there's failures, there's lots of tickets in there. But it's been very useful. So I don't know how readable this is. It's probably pretty small. But this is from the raw hide page on the wiki. And this is kind of the high level goals of raw hide to allow package maintainers to integrate the newest usable versions of their packages. A lot of people miss that they're supposed to be integrating usable packages. We want this thing to be usable. We don't want to just throw something over the fence and, you know, oh, that's broken completely. No, you want to make sure that that what you're doing there is integrating something that's useful and usable. Connection failure. Excellent. So it also allows advanced users access to newest usable packages. It allows incremental changes to packages that are too small or too large for other releases. There's a lot of things that we could do in raw hide, you know, simple fixes that don't actually need to be pushed out to every user. A good example of this is recently, I think it was rel six timeframe, the RPM specs used to have a build route invocation in them. You could specify what you wanted the temporary build route to be. And ever since rel six days, that has had no effect in in our RPMs. It RPM just defaults that to something sane. So somebody actually went through and cleaned up all of the spec files that had those still in it. So it doesn't actually change anything. It just gets rid of cruft or things that confuse other people when they're looking at the spec file or whatnot. So, you know, if there's a very minor issue, you can push into raw hide and make sure that it's working before it goes into stable. And so it's a good arena for those sorts of changes. Also, the we recently added this last line about GCC and glibc. It's a place where the low level packages can gain real work real world testing and pre release versions. Fedora works very closely with glibc folks. They try and align their cycles so that, you know, they can take advantage of the Fedora mastery build to see what's going on in the compiler or glibc.  So just a little quick note about why we should care about rawhide. You know, the goals mentioned in the last slide are pretty important, but there's the integration work that we do in rawhide is is just super vital for the rest of Fedora. It's if you don't have this ability to integrate stuff at that point, it's becomes so much harder to to get that to users. And it really is something that I think everyone should care about. So here's a interesting statistic. Those amongst you might notice how many times the rawhide compose has worked recently. I'm happy to report. I didn't add this to the slide, but we have a compose today. We actually have a compose today. And I have a slide on why this has been the case a little later here. But if you look at that 11 completed, actually, let me let me back up a second. Pungie has various states to indicate how the compose worked or did not work. Doomed means that something that is a required deliverable did not compose, did not function. So it's no good. Incomplete means that all of the required deliverables did complete, but some of the non required deliverables did not. So for example, the I 686 media is not a required deliverable. So there was a long time there. I forget how long it was a week or two when there was no I 686 kernel. And so all the I 686 media failed, which was fine for rawhide. It just said incomplete because those things did not finish. There is one other state that Pungie has called finished, which is everything worked, everything composed. And earlier this year in March, we actually had that happen. It like printed out rawhide finished compose finished. And we're like, Whoa, is that finished finished? Everything worked. And then we found out it was a Pungie bug because it had actually reported that everything worked. But there's a number of tasks where it tries to make media for, say, four architectures. And some of them are not required. And some of those had failed, but it marked the overall task as completed correctly. So we'll get there. We will get there someday. Those of you who went to the Making Composes Better Talk may be familiar with this diagram, which I shamelessly stole from the Pungie website. But this is kind of an overview of what Pungie does and the steps. If you're interested in this, obviously go look at Pungie or go look at the recording of the Making Composes Faster Talk, because they went into a lot more detail on this. But you can see that Pungie does a whole lot of stuff. It gathers a lot of packages and Thor is huge. I mean, there's 20,000 packages. Some of them are gigantic. Some of them have tons and tons of sub packages. So it's moving around tons and tons of stuff. And because we're trying to make this compose exactly like a real compose, it does, you know, tons, tons of stuff. Tons of images. We basically add images all the time or we add new deliverables all the time. People come along and say, oh, well, like this cycle, we have the mini shift spin, I think is going to be added. We have all the labs, all the spins, all the live media. So tons and tons of deliverables. So here's a kind of a quick list of things that break the compose now or problems that I've seen that break. Scripplet errors when in initial install CH route. So all of these image builds that are building live CDs or DVDs or things like that are done in Koji and Koji goes to a builder, creates a mock CH route, installs packages in that. And in some cases, installs packages into a further loop backed image in, you know, underneath that. So there's all these layers of stuff here. And at the lowest level, you're installing you're using RPM and you're installing packages into a CH route that has nothing else in it, right? You're doing the initial install of these packages. And sometimes maintainers don't think about this case. So they'll do, you know, they'll call something that they don't have a requires pre for something like that in their Scripplet. So it's not there. It doesn't exist yet. Or they try and grep a file that doesn't exist yet because the package that has that file hasn't been installed yet. Or they try and look at something in proc or sys or something like that, which it doesn't exist. Or they try and call system D. And system D is running in a CH route. And it says, no, sorry, I don't know what you're talking about. I'm not in it. So that is a real common issue that we see in the base packages. Unannounced version updates for libraries causing broken depths. This happens far too frequently still. Somebody will update a package and not even realize sometimes that the library has increased inversion and you know, these four other things are broken. And then we'll see that in the compose because it tries to install stuff and then it can't because the broken dependencies. So that is all too common these days. Not fully coordinated moves changes in several packages. We see this. We see this all the time. I have a good example of this in today's compose or yesterday's compose, which we'll see later. Size changes. This is another one that we see all the time. Actually lately, it seems like it's been glibc has had a lot of trouble with their locales. So a lot of these media are defined to a certain size. And somebody says, you know, this is a DVD or we want this under two gig or something like that. And then glibc has some kind of bug or issue where they do a build and the locales are suddenly, you know, 500 gigabytes, and then it doesn't fit. And boom, things, things don't work. So that that is an issue that a lot of people hit. I think that could possibly be mitigated by kind of informing people more quickly, what the differences in their builds are, you know, you're doing a build of this package. Hey, your last package was 498 gigabytes less, something is wrong here. So yes, exclude arch is another one. We haven't hit this too much recently, but occasionally people will run into a problem with a particular architecture. And the process for doing that is to, you know, add exclude arch, block the architecture bug and, you know, mention all the things to the architecture team. But the case this doesn't work on is things that we need in base images or build routes or things like that. I forget there was an example this earlier this year. It was, I don't know, I can't remember the name of the package, but it was some package that was basically in the basic pass package set and they excluded arm v seven. And one of the arm v seven deliverables is required. So no compose. So we have to be careful about that. Also, it might have been yeah. So here's a quick list of a few things. This is interesting. I only added locking to the compose process early this year. Before it would just compose it, it composes from a cron. And it would just compose, you know, however many, and we ran into this very, very bad problem with which we recovered from. But I doubt very many people are aware of it. So Fedora 28 the run up to that release, we were doing RC composes. And we got a an RC that was gold that passed all of the tests, we were gonna release it gonna release it next week. And unbeknownst to us or unnoticed by us, there was another compose running previous to that a brand it was branched instead of raw hide but it same principle. And it only finished after we had staged the GA release. It's not right. It was like two days after two days after the release, it finally completed. And of course, this messed up the staging of the the regular Fedora 28 release. So we had to like clean up that manually and you know, make sure everything was in the right place. So I put locking in place. And we have hit definitely hit cases now where a composer's been running and the cron doesn't kick off because it has locking around it now, just to avoid these sort of problems where you get multiple composers stacked up behind each other. We also had cases where a ride compose would go along. Another one to go along and complete. And then the first one would complete and right over the second, the one, the newer one that had already completed. So the locking is definitely been a useful, useful addition. Why do we make the compose fail on required deliverables, required deliverables? We want raw hide to be alpha quality at all times. This was part of the no, no more alphas proposal that we did with Fedora 27. So the idea is, raw hide is always alpha, it always meets the alpha criteria that the deliverables are there, the test pass, etc. And we have open QA running to do a lot of those tests. And Adam Williamson, who is not here, catches all kinds of things with with open QA. I mean, he's he's been filing stuff right and left as he hits it. And it's, it's great. This also prevents us from having the problem that we had earlier with mash, where you get to like a beta and you say, Okay, well, it's been composing were probably great. And then you find out everything's broken. So if you keep things at a high enough quality to begin with a background quality, then doing those beta and final releases are a lot easier. Composing all arches at the same time. As I mentioned, with mash, things are split out by architecture. So each architecture team did their own thing. And that ran into strange artifacts where, you know, PowerPC would be behind, say, arm v seven, or, you know, you run into these very strange version skew issues. And this allows us to do all of the all of the architectures, we can promote certain things from certain architectures as being released blocking or not. So like the arm v seven X FCE image, I believe is is or the arm v seven server image. Anyway, we could decide what architecture and what images are released blocking or not. And we don't have to worry about whether they're being done in certain other places or not. So that also is helpful. But it of course, increases all the compose time. So this is a few of the more amusing little problems we've run into. I thought I'd share. So we ran into a string of compose issues where raw hide would not compose. And it was appliance images, which are arm images that you did to arm devices that would not complete. And if you all it would say is, that is one of the ones that's sort of oniony, it goes to the builder creates a Moxie truth, and it creates a loopback device and it installs into that file, that loopback file, closes that off, does some things and then uploads it the result. Well, it was unable to unmount that loopback, something was holding that image open so it couldn't actually finish unmounting it. And this one was a big pain to track down. But the problem is, or looking at the changes from the previous working raw hide, SSSD had updated their their package. And they had put in their package that certain files were owned by the SSSD user, right, which is fine and all. But when they're installing in the CH route, that has to be looked up. It glibc says, Okay, SSSD user, what is that? I'll look in the string of things that I have to look up. So it opened those libraries. And all those libraries were already open in the CH route, except one library, the NSS system D library, system D's NSS user support was not open in the CH route. So it would open the one in the image, because it was looking for this library. And there was in the image, it would open that, look up the SSSD user and then keep it open. So this was worked around in appliance tools, we just basically added something to say, Hey, when you start making an appliance before you start that loopback, make sure all the libraries that you need to open are open in the CH route and not the image that you're trying to make. This this was a big, big pain to find. So let's see. Oh, another issue that we've run into. The way package signing works, raw had is now fully signed. The way it works is you do a build and it lands in the F 29 pending tag. And then we have an automated process called Robo signatory that looks at the stuff that lands in that tag, signs it and then moves it over to the F 29 tag. And that's that's great. But every once in a while, there's there's a problem with it. And usually it's because something we did like rebooted servers, or there was a database outage, or, you know, some some issue that caused it to not process some amount of builds there. The problem then becomes that you get these packages that are sitting in there. And then later somebody says, Hey, my package never got signed, it never went out. Well, if you then flush that Q out, you say sign on these packages, put them in the right tag. But some of them are from five days ago. And so maybe there's a newer version of one of those things. And you've just tagged an older one on top of it. So you get these strange artifacts where packages go back in version, which is not what you want. So we need to we need to solve that better, put some monitoring on it or something similar. Yes, I thought I would mention this Laura is shaking your head. Yes. The random kernel issue was one that we ran into. It was AR 64 images were not composing. And so we're like, Why is that? And so I launched one off a test one. And sure enough, it just like sat there didn't do anything and then timed out. And so then I looked on the console and it got to just, you know, partway through the boot and then just sort of sat there. And then Patrick looked at it even further and he found that it was yeah, the way that the kernel is using. Well, it was a confluence of things. GNU TLS I think it was using lib gcrypt. That's right. That's right. So yeah, it's a confluence of a bunch of things. lib gcrypt using FIPS. So it needed randomness and the kernel changing the way randomness is gathered initially on boot. I don't know how if that actually ever got solved upstream, but okay, yeah, the issue has been solved in lib gcrypt. But again, it was a strange one to try and debug because it didn't seem like anything was going wrong. It was just timing out. Another fun one that we hit very recently. DNF 3.1 landed in Rohide. And live media images stopped composing because they said package whatever is blocked and for a whole bunch of packages. And this this gets back to the fact that a lot of this stuff that we do has no spec, right? I mean, if you ask somebody, what is a well formatted comps file? What is the, you know, what is the spec for this? Well, there isn't really one. And what is a well formatted kickstart file? Well, we don't know the behavior of some of this stuff. So what had happened here is that we have a base live CD package package kickstart file that includes the standard group. And at some point, the workstation folks to reduce size decided they did not want to include the standard group. So they did minus at standard. Well, old DNF and yum treated this as you wanted standard. Now you don't want standard that cancels out. DNF 3.1 made the assumption that you said you wanted standard. You said you don't want any of the packages in standard.  And unfortunately, that has D bus and core utils and things like that. So it did not work. The DNF folks fix this up pretty quickly. But this is a case where it's the problem isn't necessarily that they, you know, change the behavior. It's that we don't define some of our inputs very well at all. So the we did get a raw hide composed today. I thought I'd share the last four or five things that have been preventing it from working the last few weeks. First, we ran into a grub to relocation tool chain tool chain issue on arm, where it was doing something funny to the grub to binary and messing it up, essentially. And Peter fixed that pretty quickly, only to run into file conflicts between two of the grub to sub packages. So he fixed that. And then the next compose after that was one of these uncoordinated changes issues. Man pages got or man pages used to carry a man page for the time command. But now the time package wanted to carry that man page. So they both had it and it was a conflict and nothing installed. So again, that got fixed quickly. But you have to realize that between all these issues, you fix the one issue and then you start to compose and it's eight and a half, nine, 10 hours later before you can tell that the next thing that is broken. So that makes things take a really long time. The latest thing which was just fixed yesterday by yesterday by Adam Williamson DNF 3.1 changed again, defining things in the DNF.conf or yum.conf the repo files, we have a failover priority equals parameter. And Koji was passing this many for many years, I'm sure. Passing this configuration in there with no value. So it was failover priority equals nothing. And DNF was DNF previously just ignored it DNF 3.1 said trace back. Okay, so I thought I threw out a whole bunch of problems here. And if people have ideas for these, we can certainly discuss them and write try and write them down and see what we can do. So one of the problems here is that, as I mentioned, it's the ability to find breaking changes and block them. So there's a proposal for gating that has been discussed many times on the develop list. And I actually have a slide on that here in a second. We'll talk about ability to test proposed fixes all the time as they come in, because this would help us be able to isolate things like that DNF, the grub to relocation issue, stuff like that and catch it before we have to endure eight or 10 hours of composing. The compose times, obviously a problem for iterating over the stuff. The signing issues, which I mentioned earlier, we can probably address by monitoring and doing a few things. And I also wanted to add here marketing issues, because I still hear people saying, you know, raw highs, unusable day to day or it's bleeding edge or ha ha, you know, it eats babies or whatnot. I've been running raw hide on my laptop for like six years, something like that. And sure, there are problems. But I think it's vastly better than it used to be, for a number of reasons. For one thing, broken dependencies don't cause the headache that they used to, because DNF basically will say, I'll resolve this. Oh, all the stuff is broken. I'll just not update that. So you stick to the working thing until that gets unlog jammed in raw hide. I think that we're also getting better about catching these things and composes instead of letting them get out to end user systems. All those DNF or grub things would have been caught by end users in the mash era and have to be fixed by them by people and iterated and pushed out again and breaking users stuff. So just real quickly, the gating proposal, you can look up the full thing on the develop list. Basically, we want to teach Bodie about raw hide and try and make it as transparent as we possibly can. So basically all changes, if you do an update, just a regular one package update for no reason, or for a version update or whatever, it would get a Bodie update. You wouldn't have to worry about this. In the common case, it would get the update and tests would run on it and get a plus one and go out in the next day just like it does today. If you have a collection of packages that you need to build, we would teach Bodie about side tags. So that would add a little bit more overhead, but it would add a lot more help to our composes. So Bodie then would get a side tag ability. So you'd say, I need a side tag, Bodie would say, here's your side tag, you build your 20 packages or whatever, it would take them as a collection and test them as a collection. And so if there was a failure on those 20 packages, you could address that iterate over it and then get them through. And so this would help us, you know, if there's a problem with a group of packages or whatever, we can see what that case is, we could test that whole collection at the same time, which would be extremely helpful for QA because right now, things come in at a pace that the maintainer is doing and it isn't necessarily, you know, reflecting on the completed state that they want all their packages to be in. Actually, so the question was, how does this affect the build route? And I believe we said that side tags would have their own or populate their own. So you can build against other things in that side tag, but not in the base. No, so the question was, if if compiler is rebuilt, and you want to use that compiler, you know, that same day. So after it does the gating, and it will be it would be tagged into like just f29. So it would add to the build route after after the test for it, went out as raw hide the next day, if that makes sense. Right, exactly. It take however long the CI stuff takes to run and approve it. Alright, so let's see updates merge and the pinning tag for testing and then the test run on that. This would also give us another place for feedback for users if if need be. Another thing that we really love to have and I believe mohan has been working on this is a quick smoke testing composed type of thing. This would really help us for critical packages. Colonel Anaconda grub Lorax stuff that's used in all the images. Because right now we untag something and we have to wait 12, you know, eight, 10 hours to see if everything works. It'd be really nice to upfront see that there's an update to one of these things and go okay, let's do a test compose. Oh, no, it doesn't work. Untag it and, you know, get back to a working state until that can be fixed. Also, a subset of images for open QA would be very useful. If we do just the the real high profile ones to start with workstation, live media, server DVD, that kind of stuff. Open QA can run tests on those and tell us, you know, if a proposed thing is going to work or not. So more future stuff. I put, man, my smiley didn't show up up there, bummer. I put drop I 686 with a smiley. We now still continue to make all I 686 images that we've always made. So that's like every lab, every spin, workstation server, you know, that is a lot of images. And it may be something to consider to say, you know, we're going to cut our compose time by a couple of hours by just not making all that stuff or making less of it. Justin. Okay, Justin points out that we can talk to the I 686 SIG and see if they're targeting or care about any subset of those specifically. And that's a that's a real good idea. Because, you know, there's just so many of these and I'm unsure how many people are using them, especially when you look at things like, you know, the design lab spin, you know, how many people are doing intensive gibb and pork on I 686 box, right, right. So they're more interested in XFC or LXD or, you know, those sort of things. Yep. Yep, that's a good idea. Try and do more in parallel. This was already discussed quite a bit at the make composes faster talk the other day. So I encourage you to go look at that recording when you get a chance. And actually, we talked about the incremental mode also there. Being able to cash a previous compose and use things that have not changed from that compose if we're wishing to do do things faster. So there's always new deliverables modules, new OS tree new containers, all kinds of things. But raw hide should really strive to push the latest working versions to users. There's a few cases where we're not right now, like the raw hide container is really old at this point. And hopefully we're fixing that. I don't think I think OS tree is all on two week cadence. But at one point, we had an OS tree that was running off of the Koji build route, I believe, and we may want to explore doing something like that at a later date. OS tree lends itself very well to testing raw hide. Because you can bisect your problem. You know, this is working at this point. It's not working here. All right, I'm going to just bisect and see where it broke and what what changed. So a few things for the future. New mock. Right now we're using an older version of mock and all our builders and we need to move up to the newest version. We need to leverage system dn spawn bootstrap mode is something we need for Apple builds. So we need to really start working on that, especially since there's a lot of pressure now with Python to going away next year. So we really need to move, move on and get Python to out of out of the environment. We may want to consider allowing packages to go backwards in some cases. This was discussed on the devil list recently. In the past, distrosync, the DNF distrosync didn't work that great. But I've been using it lately for for all my updates. And it's doing a pretty good job. But as somebody pointed out on the mailing list, you kind of want a common understanding here, a common platform to everyone to build on. If you're trying to integrate your packages, and then somebody who you depend on is moves their package back versions. It makes it very difficult for you to be able to find that thing usable. So I don't know, we may want to look at that rule right now. Fesco, there's a Fesco rule that you're not allowed to go backward in an update that shipped out in rawhide. But we may want to revisit that. We may bring in a lot more users with rawhide containers because it's a lot easier way to consume rawhide.  You have those newer packages. You can do tests. You can do anything you could do in a container. So I think we may get a lot of people looking at using it for that reason. Mass bug fixes and spec changes. This has been something that's kind of up ticked in the last year or so. And I think it's probably a very good thing to do because it saves people a lot of time and it ends up making things better. But we need to look into that and making that easier, leveraging that. Python 3, I mentioned, we want to move everything to Python 3. A lot of things are, but we need the newer mock and we need Koji, I think, still has a dependency somewhere. I forget where. Also, there's the release for equals rawhide change, which was discussed on the develop list. Basically, this is to allow the Fedora release in rawhide to advertise its version as rawhide instead of the number. Right now it says 29. If we do this, it ends up making things like QA and so forth a lot easier because they don't have to compute what number is rawhide right now. And if they want a rawhide something, they can just say release for rawhide. We can make the number still work also. But I think this will actually be a nice win for making it uniform. We can also drop the Fedora repo's rawhide package because all Fedora, Fedora updates, Fedora updates testing can all use the rawhide name with Mirror Manager and it will just all work. So that will also save things needing to be changed and tweaked. I mentioned OS Tree earlier for testing. I think that there's a lot of ability to leverage OS Tree for rawhide testing. If we can get the compose time of those down enough, it might be worth having something where we compose an OS Tree for every package that lands in the build route, then you could bisect actually down to the package level what broke some particular use case of yours. Actually close to the end, how are we doing on time? Oh, all right. Well, questions, comments, concerns, yeah. Right. So the question is about if we have these periods where there's like a week of no rawhides, we're not updating the package repositories on the mirrors and people can't use those packages for other builds and other things. Yeah, absolutely. And that's I think something that we can address with the the gating and the CI things basically make it so that these composes are not this unreliable. That's I think that's the easiest solution. The thing we could do is go back to the the mash world where we push the trees out, even if the images don't compose. But the problem there is that we're just kind of pushing it pushing the problem off a little bit. It isn't actually solving it. So yeah. So the question is what what happens with signing rawhide on the branching day? We talked about that a lot last branching. I don't know if we came up with very many solutions. I think we were gonna, well, in the past, we have signed it with both keys. And, you know, I've done that. Yeah, I don't know if we came up with a good solution there, because it there's a period of time where they may be both signed, but you also have to push out the new, the new signature or the RPM signature file. We could talk about that some more and see if we can come up with a better, better solution. But signing them in advance is definitely good. Yes, right. Yes, we should sign all those now. Yeah. Yeah. Huh? Yeah, I'm not sure. I seem to remember a ticket about that. The question was the RPM OS tree silver blue composes in rawhide aren't functioning currently. I saw a ticket on that. I don't remember what the the problem was. He also actually just tried out essentially silver blue, not too long ago. And there was a problem RPM OS tree couldn't layer packages. And there were some other issues. But I think those got solved. So I don't, we'd have to look and see what the problem is. That brings up another issue is that when these required deliverables fail, you know, the only peer, the only people who pay attention to them are the people who care about them. You know, relinch does not have the cycles to care about any of those. So if something breaks and nobody is actively looking at it, it can be broken for a while. Right. Right. So so that brings up the broken dependencies report. There isn't one currently because the old one was written in young written to use yum and did not understand rich dependencies. Okay, see what you're saying. Right. So the observation was that if we pointed out the things that fail in the rawhide message, people would be more likely to notice them and fix them. That's a good point. That's that's a very good point. Any other questions, comments? Yeah, it's the question was, what is the user base? And we don't have a real good idea. It's small. But that's one of the things the changing the release version to rawhide from the number would give us because then we could actually look at the people who are using rawhide, specifically, because the number gets really murky or especially around branching time, whether somebody is on 29 or is that rawhide before branching or was it right after or a branch after branching, that kind of thing. So doing rawhide there will actually give us better numbers for that. But it's it's not large right now. I think Matthew Miller may have some information on that how many it was. But I'd say thousands at most. Okay, yeah. So the observation was there may be more, more users because there's more interested in things. Yeah. Yeah, I, I, I filed bugs on our PMOS tree and pod man, because it wasn't working. And on our PMOS tree, you know, people were like, Oh, it works fine on f28. Well, I'm not on f28. So yeah. Yeah, so we actually there used to be long ago a blog site called is rawhidebroken.com. And we use that for a little while, but it's really hard because things move so fast. So like, you know, somebody will notice a problem. And then you post about it, and then it's fixed already, or, or something like that. We talked actually last year, I think about setting up something in bugzilla, a whiteboard field or something like that, where you could say, you know, rawhide important or rawhide noticeable, something like that. And then you could do a bug zilla search and see if there were any new bugs. I think that might be useful. I don't know. Yeah. Yeah. So yeah. So the question is where to look for broken broken issues and packages and rawhide. And yeah, IRC is probably, sometimes if it's really bad, it will make the mailing list. But not always. All right. Anything else? Anyone? All right. Oh, sure. We need to talk to Randy about that. I don't think he's in here. He has a whole bunch of other stuff on his plate. So I don't know. I'm thinking it's probably more a f 30 type of thing. But I don't know when he has it planned. But we really need that stuff to land before we can do it in a meaningful way. Okay. Okay. Thank you, everybody.


High school is a living nightmare, right? But this time it's an actual nightmare. Ooh, that's a hot mug, guys! Hey guys, this is my review for After School Special Episode 13 of Supernatural Season 4. If I were to summarize this episode, I would say it's the second best look at the past for the brothers episode in the entire history of the show. The first one being the Christmas special from Season 3, but this one is a close second because we get to see a little bit more about Dean and Sam and how they formed into their adolescent years. Dean being freakishly tall, which I think was a bit of a miscast because he's taller than everyone and yet Sam's the one who's going to overgrow and outgrow him and make Dean look short. Dean's kind of mannerisms, his mentality of the world and to women in general is definitely shown in this episode as well as his vulnerability and his hiding of his actual true issues with his life. Whereas Sam is a lot more open and a lot more human, but he also hides his own anger, his own issues inside, kind of lets that kind of break out with the people he meets at school and particularly the teacher who has such a long-lasting effect on him. And this is actually a very personal element that I would hope that all of us can relate to we all had, at least I would hope, that teacher, that person who gave us a lesson in our life that we stuck with. I have several teachers in my grade school years who I can definitely think back on and remember what they taught me and this episode relies on that. And this is in fact an Andrew Dab and a Laughlin episode and they add a lot of good humor to the episode, emotional attachments to the episode. The ending is a little silly with them trying to find this piece of hair and they're tearing apart the bus and then all of a sudden it's just in the guy's boot which he'll never find it, it's in my stinky boot. Overall I don't mind the kind of deviation from the monster. The monster's there but this is very much a personal episode. I think the actors are really good, I think both of them do exceptionally well. The episode's got a lot of heart to it but it's also got a little good humor.  I think it's interesting that he's a bully because of the circumstances that he was in economically as well as watching a family member literally die in front of him that would obviously build up a lot of anger and a lot of issues with yourself. I'd have liked to have seen a little bit more personal about that but I don't really know where they could have fit that into this episode. I don't want to say that Dean's part in this episode is less important than this bully kid because I would have felt a lot more sympathy for him especially with that little monologue that Sam gives him. Otherwise though after school special is still really good and it's got one of the funniest moments in this season when Dean just takes a giant wind up and whacks that dodgeball into that kid. I don't know how they got that. They must have patted the kid but it also paid him more to get absolutely walloped like that. Otherwise though I'm going to give this episode a five out of seven and like before I asked you guys what you thought about this episode so let's take a look. After school special hits home for me in a lot of personal ways. I was bullying my whole life through preschool all the way through to college. I really love all the gore and horror elements this episode has an overall somber tone. The teacher in this episode is remarkable and something about him reminded me of the good teachers I had growing up who inspired me to be the person I wanted to be. Although it would be dark, it would have been dark if Sam leaves the teacher and we see the teacher smile and his eyes flash demonic black. The way it should have shown it would have shown how Sam had been manipulated by demons his whole life as it established by the season five finale. My only nitpick is something about the episode is that young Dean is it feels often forced of him really trying to have Dean's gruff tone. Overall this episode felt like it would have been more fitting with season one or through two. The show always presents how much Sam and Dean wrestled with the idea of a normal life after being exposed to all the evil they've experienced and it tries to hammer it in that such a life is impossible if the brothers are alive. It's a great episode but it's not unnecessarily a great episode for season four since we're dealing with so much more cosmic issues right now. I can understand a lot of people's concerns about season four after the ten or so episodes that really worked well at the beginning. To me the writers are trying to make up for the last episodes they couldn't put in season three and that's why some of the episodes are good but not fitting the overall narrative of the apocalypse that is inevitably on the rise. That's actually a good point because maybe this episode would have actually worked really well in season three considering what was happening. After school special was a pretty good I really like the young actors they're accounting in my eyes in the show's history it kind of shows how chaotic Sam's life was changing school every few months is insane especially when you know the curriculum changes not only from state to state but district to district within a state that's actually very true like I don't know how on earth he ever learned anything no wonder he wanted out although super weird it takes John months for one hunt while the boys get it done in a few days. I like the twist of the ghost who the ghost actually was and how ironically the bully being bullied by Sam caused all of this. Nothing deeper to say I like that six out of seven for me because it gave us a gym teacher dean a great cosplay option I see a little girl wear to a convention asking Crowley's actor what Ferg is asked for in his demon deal creating an awkward situation then the little girl hilariously saying just kidding I already know what he got man conventions jeez probably going for another year of no conventions that's a sad little note sorry bring that up you'll enjoy after school special even though it's another filler episode I think these four episodes that aired after the midseason break are the weakest of the season especially with the two very strong episodes coming up soon afterwards but of those four after school special may be the best story slash character episode curious to see what you think yeah no I'll agree where we've got one more filler episode then we hit it back into really hard hitting after school special I believe this is the first supernatural episode to have featured ghost possession this episode is one of the two quality ghost possession focused episodes this episode is probably the better of the two however specter from southern comfort season eight is much more sinister and it has a more appealing characteristics and ability southern comfort is a solid episode despite the fact that the ghost shares from uncanny resemblance to red sky at morning it takes me four times rewatching this episode to finally appreciate it it mostly due to the annoying factor that still bothers me the ghost motives I find it extremely hypocritical considering he was straight up bullied I haven't bullied myself a lot but I don't buy his behavior just him acting out however the rest of the episode is actually really well written with Sam and Dean getting so much development frankly the best young actors to play Sam and Dean this is one of the well-written episodes dad dad does plus Kansas king my caroline before they ruined her in this episode that's awesome now I ask you a question are you sick because you sound really weird in the past two videos also my previous comment offensive because I don't know I I can't remember the last comment um no like these videos are prerecorded from ages ago because I was watching about I think I watched about 10 episodes supernatural uh each over two days to finish this season but uh going back to Dirk I think the thing that I kind of felt odd it out about what uh his motivations were because of the bullying thing but it's it's the fact that he watched his mom die very very slowly and painfully I think that is why he is the way he is and that made sense to me more so when I really cued into that conversation that happened in this season or this episode the next episode is sex and violence and make sure to give me guys his thoughts about that episode in the comments below and I'll read those off and just a little bit of a side note I have been looking for his name even though I know it's close to the time now this episode aired four days before Kim Manners passed and that's why we haven't seen his name since metamorphosis and it's really sad to see because he is or was probably one of the best directors that the show ever had but we'll talk about that when we do the death takes a holiday episode because there is no more about him anyways guys thank you for watching I hope you enjoyed the video if you did leave a like and if you're interested in more subscribe otherwise I'll see you guys next week thanks for watching the video my name is Knitz and you might remember me from the animated cult classic tv show undergrads it's been a while but I'm happy to say the click is finally getting back together in an all-new movie thanks to a successful Kickstarter campaign but we are still asking for your support to see any and all updates about the upcoming undergrads movie be sure to check out and like the bring back undergrads facebook page and with any luck we'll see you guys soon


This is stock number 9818A, we are here at Summit Automotive in Fond du Lac, Wisconsin, your new and used SUV and Jeep headquarters. Today we are checking out this super clean 2016 Jeep Grand Cherokee Limited. This vehicle has the award winning 3.6 liter Pentastar V6 motor and from this HD video you will be able to tell that this car or SUV is extremely clean all the way around. Bright white is the color. We shoot all of our videos in 1080p so if you have HD capabilities on your computer tablet or smartphone device, turn them on right now because it's like you're right here looking at the vehicle with me. Factory painted alloy rims and this one has Firestone Destination 26560R18 tires. Looks like it has a good amount of tread left I'd say probably 70-80% of the tread left on those tires. You can see any dents or dings on the fender there. Has the projector lamp headlamps, the projector lamp fog lamps, no dents, dings or cracks on that front bumper, passenger side fenders in really nice condition as well and the passenger side rim, very very nice. No major scuffs or scrapes and as you go down this side of the Jeep you can see just how clean the body is, how reflective and mirror-like that paint is. We take these HD videos so if you are far away or even if you're close by and just cannot make a trip down you can still see the vehicle, hear the vehicle and have confidence in what you're looking at before you even get here. Very very clean down this side, didn't see any dents or dings on the doors there. Back rim is in excellent shape as well and the back tires have just as much tread as the front tires. Four wheel disc brakes of course on the Grand Cherokees. As we come around to the back you'll notice it has the chrome tipped exhaust, the rear bumper is in excellent shape, no dents, dings or cracks on that and the rear gate is in nice shape as well. This one has the LED running light tail lamps, back storage area is very clean, it does have the sunshade, the power rear gate and of course all the Grand Cherokees come with a full-size spare tire, this one has the jack tools and everything and to put this gate down you press this button it will beep at you three times and then come on down. Do apologize for the wind, little windy out today. As we go down this side the vehicle just as clean as that passenger side, no dents or dings on the rear quarter for full disclosure this back rim is in nice shape as well and on this side I didn't see any dents or dings in the doors. Enter and go system has the heated mirrors with the built in directional signals, inside the limited package gives you the black leather interior, there are no rips or tears on these seats. Rear side lumbar, factory floor mats are out, auto headlamps, power windows, power locks, power mirrors and memory driver seat. As we hop inside the vehicle here you can see that this one has 83,512 miles, you get the really nice 7 inch digital display there with the digital speedometer, outside temp and compass has the heated leather wrap steering wheel, no scuffs or scrapes on that cruise controls on the right, bluetooth and audio information center controls on the left, then of course they have the paddle shifters and then audio controls on the back of the steering wheel as well for sound and channel. This one has the 8.4 touch screen radio, you get your AM FM and Sirius XM radio capabilities, you also get your heated seats and heated steering wheel buttons, this is also where your backup camera shows up and what's nice about this radio, this one does not have nav but if you wanted to add nav you could definitely add it to this radio, we can do it here at the dealership, it's 595 bucks, see your sales professional for more information. Tool climate control, backup sensors, start stop capability, eco mode, sport mode and then you have your stability control right there. This one has the Quadra Track 2 system which gives you your 4-wheel drive low, your downhill sys control as well as the select terrain, snow, sand, mud and rock and then you also have your neutral setting right there. Passenger side seat and floor mat are very very clean, no rips or tears on that, smells very clean inside this vehicle, headliners in really nice condition, it does have a home link and your map lights right there as well as your 911 and assist buttons in the mirror, those are features of the vehicle that you never have to pay a subscription for. We'll take a quick look at the back seats and then check out under the hood, hard to believe there's 83,000 miles on this vehicle for how clean it is inside and out all the way around has latch child safety system, these back seats are heated on the outboard sides here, two USB ports, 115 volt, 150 watt plug in and factory floor mats and carpeting is very clean as well, these seats fold down almost completely flat which is really nice if you got a haul a bunch of extra stuff. And we'll take a quick look under the hood, I would personally like to thank you for checking out the video today and for dealing with the wind noise and hopefully from this HD video you will have been able to tell just how clean this Jeep is all the way around inside and out so you can make a smart buying decision from the comfort of your own home. Under the hood we have the 3.6 liter Pentastar V6 motor, engine bay is very clean, runs very smooth, this Jeep has been fully safety and inspected by our service shop has a fresh oil and filter change, all the fluids have been checked and topped off and this Jeep is 100% ready to go. To see more pictures of this Jeep Grand Cherokee or one of our other 450 new and used cars, trucks, SUVs, minivans, Wranglers, halftons, three-quarter tons, one tons, you know what we got, go to our website www.SummitAuto.com, full pictures and descriptions of every single vehicle on our lot, videos of every single used vehicle that we have from two locations all at SummitAuto.com, if you want to check out more HD videos you can go to YouTube.com slash SummitAuto, remember to like, subscribe and share on this video and all the videos that you see there, in fact in a second you will see a link to subscribe to our YouTube channel on your left, you'll see a link to more used inventory videos like this one on your right, if you have not been to our website in the bottom, link to this vehicle on our website, click those, check us out and we really look forward to helping you with this super clean 2016 Jeep Grand Cherokee Limited, thanks again.


This is really a special show. This is, history is here to help and how Putin's war affects European politics. And how does it play in European, Europe's rising populism? I thought that was an American phenomenon, but I guess it could be anywhere. And of course we have my co-host and contributor, Peter Hoffenberg. Raise your hand if you're Peter Hoffenberg. Excellent. I'll have to go get him. I think he's outside. He's down the hall. And Manfred Hennigson. Did I raise my hand? There it is, raise your hand if you're Manfred. And Manfred is trying to look like a Vermeer painting, but he's missing the pearl earring. I'm sorry about that. That's right. I missed that. Okay, anyway, we're talking about a very important thing that is evolving, emerging, and the outlines of it becoming more and more clear every day. So Peter, as you all want to do, can you first, can you tell us more about Manfred? I mean, the serious kind of discussion about Manfred and about the scope of our talk today? My pleasure. It's good to see you, Manfred. Manfred is Professor Emeritus of Political Science at UH Manoa, where he has taught countless undergraduate and graduate students. His graduate students are spread far and wide. Manfred is a man of many interests and talents. I have very selfishly invited him today to talk as Jay suggested about the impact of the war and also more broadly about his studies of what we would consider the European right and populism in Europe. So I would like, and I hope Jay agrees with me to not just discuss the war with Manfred, but how he sees it in light of a longer arc of European populism and the European right. Manfred's experiences are not just with travel, but a tremendous amount of scholarship on what for want of a better term would be modern European political thought, regimes of tyranny, fear, the significance of memory as we rethink particularly World War II. So Manfred, good to see you. Love the shirt, very stylish as always. The way we work is I turn it over to my boss, Jay. He asks some questions and then we have a pleasant half hour or so of back and forth. So Jay, let me turn it over to you and Manfred, good to see you. Thank you. It's hard to say this conversation can be pleasant. We'll try to do what we can, but we have Europe is in a state, isn't it? Europe has been jostled. This war is affecting the stability of Europe before we even get to the politics. It must be on the minds of most people on the street and they must have a certain amount of anxiety and that goes further, doesn't it? That goes to this phenomenon of political populism. Talk to me about the way this works. How does the war insinuate itself into the thinking of these various countries in Western Europe and for that matter, Eastern Europe? Well, you see, the interesting thing about them and Peter asked me whether I would like to talk about European right-wing populism that was long before the war started. Populism was in decline with the exception of France but in most other parts, it was not really moving up especially not in Germany and in Scandinavia. I mean, what this invasion has done to Europe is in a way to beef up the EU identity. Now, you have to understand the motivation for the war was to stop the incursion of Western liberalism into the Soviet and into Russia. The Ukraine was a threat. The Ukraine was in a way the model, how Russia could become transformed. And there's one very important figure who is Silesi Lenski, like the president of the Ukraine and that's Navalny. And he is the most prominent opponent of Putin. He's in prison now, but CNN showed this incredible movie, Canadian movie about Navalny and when you watch it, you understand why Putin is afraid that the Ukraine becomes the model for transformation of Russia. Now, I do not think one should exaggerate that possibility because you have a lot of Russians who do not want to become liberalized in the European or American sense. They are quite happy with this Eurasian vision that Putin has. He wants to disconnect Russia not only from all global economic connections, he wants in a way to restore this identity that in the late 19th century was promoted as the third Rome and it includes the Orthodox, the Russian Orthodox Church and the Russian Orthodox Church and the Russian Orthodox Church and they are behind Putin. Putin is not only a Machiavellian power politician, he is spiritually deeply connected with the Orthodox Church and so it's a package deal of the Tsarist, Stalinist, great Russia connected with the Church. And that has nothing, when you look at it and for him, the Ukraine was part of this package deal, but now he just realized that the Ukrainians did not want to become part of this reinvention of this system. Great Russian Empire and when you look at what is happening, there are five million refugees have proven to Putin that they don't want to be part of his empire. They have left for Poland, for Hungary. There's one thing that I must admit which really annoys me or doesn't annoy me, but it makes me a little bit nervous because what these refugees that are in Poland now in Hungary especially have done is to beef up the positive identity of these two countries which attacked in a different way, the European Union by not abiding by all kinds of provisions by undermining the legal system, the court system, by doing all by being ideologically calling themselves in the defender of a Christian, white Europe. So the critique that began to become very, very formidable in Western Europe against Poland and Hungary has now become somehow silenced, but that is something that has simply happened. And I do not know how the European Union will come to terms with that. They still have to deal with all kinds of money transfers that are connected with the EU treaty to Hungary and to Poland, whether they will stop that term, I don't know. But in any case, what you have at this point, you could say something that Putin, I don't think anticipated that his invasion really somehow revitalized the identity, the European identity, the political identity of the European Union. And it also may possibly lead to Finland and Sweden joining NATO. I mean, the two prime ministers were yesterday in Berlin talking with Chancellor Scholz. And so in that sense, you have there something that really was not intended by Putin, but it has, I think we'll have major consequences now. What the American part will be, once we have the primary, the midterm elections and then the 2024 election, God knows, if Trump will come back into power and revives his friendship with Putin, then Europe is left on its own. I don't know what will happen. None of us can predict how the midterms will go out. But I mean, the populism in the United States is worse than it is in Europe, maybe with the exception of France, where you had 41% of Marine Le Pen getting and then I mean, half of, or more than half of the Republicans are anti-Biden populist believing in the lie that Trump is still president. So overall, I don't know how the shape of the Western response to this challenge by Putin will emerge over the next year or so. But you will agree that it is in a state of transformation. Yes. That when you put these vectors together, you know the threat of it and the refugees of it and the populism surfacing yet again, when you put that all together, you have changes going on, changes some of which are visible and some of which are under the hood. Right, but you see one thing that's very interesting, this populism is declining, especially in Germany. So when you compare France and Germany, in France you have now 41% for Marine Le Pen in Germany, the FD is down to 10% and they are in the process of self-destruction, they kill each other. In a constant civil war involved. So, and then you have, remember, you know, you have this very small transition from the Merkel government to Schultz and the Greens. And what you have now in Germany is the fascinating phenomenon that the Greens who were the leaders of the pacifist movement in the 70s are ahead of the social democrats in terms of, you know, of providing the Bundeswehr, the military with funds, you know, they have completely transformed themselves. Isn't that because they want to be humanitarian? Isn't that because they are sympathetic? Well, that's, but there's a realism suddenly, a political realism taking over in the Greens that was not there in the 70s. I mean, when you think of Petra Kelly, who was the icon, you know, of the Greens, she came to Hawaii a few times, she was almost becoming a visiting professor in our department at one point, you know, Glenn Page really was promoting that. And she was a charismatic figure, but she was an anti-war person. Today, you have Annalena Behrbach, who is the German Foreign Minister, she is a Green, and Jürgen Habermas, who just published a really extraordinary essay about Schultz in the German newspaper, Süddeutsche Zeitung, in which he praises his reticence, you know, his careful balancing of politics, of German politics, and he called her the icon, you know, of German politics. Now the energy minister, who has to manage, you know, the disconnection of Germany, the gas. The Nord Stream pipeline, yeah. Well, not only that, I mean, look, we have two. People didn't know they were two, the one that is still running now is Nord Stream One. Nord Stream Two did not become activated, but this guy, Habek, who's the co-chair of the Greens, together with Behrbach, is as formidable, you know, in his insistence of the transformation of the Green Party. And you see, the social democrats have still this lingering sympathy for the Russia that the Russia of Gorbachev that allowed the German unification to take place. They think of Willy Brandt's, you know, post-politique in the 1970s. So you have a lot of emotional baggage, emotional political baggage. From a historical point of view, Peter, is there anything new here?  Isn't that Europe for the past hundreds of years? Well, as the case always, yes, yes and no. So I'd like to take advantage of Manfred being here, completely exploited his brilliance and experienced by asking him to tease out at least three of the very interesting points you made among all of them for our audience in particular. One important point you made was that however we think about Putin, the two major consequences of the invasion seem not to have been on his radar. One is the surprisingly stiff and effective military resistance, which may in part be due to poorly trained Russian military. And secondly, what at least seems to be the resurrection of NATO in the European Union. So the first question would be for our audience. What does this tell us about Putin as a political leader? Did he misjudge things? Was he blinded by his own particular hubris? How do you think we can explain this? I think both. I think he was blinded by his grandiose vision of this resurrected Russian empire and he was misinformed. I think, I mean, what is so extraordinary is that you could say the Western intelligence, especially American intelligence, were better informed about the status of the Russian military than Putin was. I mean, the Americans knew almost anything before Putin got a hint. So it was, it's absolutely extraordinary, this superiority of the American intelligence in this particular, in this event. When you compare it with a mess of the Iraq war, how the US got into the Iraq war in 72. This is completely different and absolutely stunning. How not only about primarily American but other Western intelligence services also succeeded in anticipating almost every move that the Russians were making or trying to make. And then you have this incredible mess that they created for themselves, the Russians. And whether Putin will be able of replenishing the military personnel in the Ukraine is questionable. I mean, I realized for the first time in my life how big the Ukraine is in 2016 when I went from Lviv to Kiev to Odessa by train. Absolutely stunning. I mean, I had no idea Ukraine is as big as Russia. I mean, and with this rundown military army that he has, conventionally, I do not think he could occupy the Ukraine. But for that reason, you know, the fear that he will use chemical weapons, biological weapons and maybe even nuclear weapons is always there. You know, if he has no other way of holding on to it, you know, and next week he wants to celebrate the victory. You know, on the 9th of May, you have always these victory parades in Moscow being the victor of World War II. Mario Paul, I mean, the total destruction of Mario Paul will be the symbol that he will use. It seems to be compelling them to demolish the city as soon as possible. I think that may light on his schedule and I would expect the steel factory to be destroyed entirely by May 8th. Secondly, because I mean, we would like to have, no, no, but the day before, I expect the steel factory and God only knows what's gonna happen to the wounded soldiers. We only have a few minutes left so I really want to exploit you for our audience. And second, I think very interesting point you made which doesn't get a lot of coverage here is the tension between, let's say, the more orthodox EU, Germany, France, the more orthodox and these two strategically significant countries, Poland and Hungary. So could you help our audience just in a few sentences tell us, for example, about the legal battle, how the EU does require a European-wide legal system which the Poles and Hungarians seem to be pushing back against. Right, and I mean, this is part, you know, also you could say of the ideological discourse that especially Viktor Orban, the Prime Minister of Hungary, it promotes but law and justice, you know, Party Kaczynski's party in Poland does the same thing, you know, they are in one respect, you could say, in line with Putin by being against the liberal West, you know, Viktor Orban's always talking about the virtues of illiberal democracy. And well, that's what they have been practicing, you know, that he became re-elected with a great majority recently, is sad, but then on the other hand, you have this lovely defeat of the Orban clone in Slovenia, you know, he was defeated in elections, but then you have this scary scenario of France. I mean, a country that is almost divided a long line up with a Macron is capable of containing his arrogance and, you know, open himself up to all of the problems that he was unwilling to deal with in the first five years of his, in the first presidency. I don't know. You see. You know, Manfred, one thing is that I think Putin is counting on the ultimate deterioration of the coalition. How long can it stay in place? Which coalition? The Western European coalition. Oh, I think it has become, it has become so formidable, especially in the European Union, even Hungary and Poland, I think, being overwhelmed by these refugees, you know, will recognize that. So if there's one positive thing that has come out of it, it's the strengthening of the European Union. No, let's stay strong if the Republicans win in November and win in 2024 and Trump, you know, ascends them up power, or will that undermine it and cause it to fragment? I do not think it will cause it to fragment. I think it will cause it to finally do what Macron had suggested for a long time, namely to get a military dimension to the European Union. So I think people have realized, you know, the threat in Finland, especially, you know, Finland is member of NATO and the EU. Sweden is only member of the EU. It's not member of NATO.   This nostalgic attempt, you know, to return to a past that is not... You saw that in Brexit, I mean, that was part of Brexit as well. Brexit, look, and in both cases, in the French and in the British case, you know, you have this historical nostalgia, the Brexit, you know, return Britannia and in the French case, La Grande Nation and it happened, you know, you could say one of the results of the German defeat by Western powers and the Soviet Union in 1945 is that this vision does not exist in Germany. So you have there of the three major European countries, one that does not suffer from nostalgia and I think that is something that people do not really recognize enough. How important that is that you have the most economically, most powerful and the largest country in the center of Europe, not being deluded by a vision of nostalgic vision of returning to a past. What about anti-Semitism, Manfred? That's one of the elements in our discussion today. There's a, you know, I guess it's an emergence of anti-re-emergence of anti-Semitism. How does that play with all of this? How does it play with the coalition? I think anti-Semitism is not the center, it's part of the package of the ideological package of the populism. But you see, I mean, anti-Semitism is, you could say almost worse in this country, you have over 2,700 cases in 2021. And I think the American anti-Semitism is more of the traditional type, whereas in the European case, you have the presence of Muslims. You know, you have close to 10 million Muslims in France. You have 4 million Turks in Germany, half of them are German citizens. The other half didn't want to become German citizens because they would lose their property rights in Turkey. But then you have, since 2015, one million Syrians and others. But you see, the interesting thing about this, how European societies have responded to this migration influx is that, and that is not recognized enough either, the integration of the Syrians into Germany is in the labor market, 10,000 of the young Syrians are studying now at German universities. What you have there is not this ideological overhang of the replacement argument that you have also in the United States, that non-whites are beginning to replace the core of the European white, the European white core of Western societies. That played a role in the French election, not only Le Pen, but the other guy, the more radical guy from Algeria, made this an argument. But you had that also in Britain. The Brexit 2016 was, well, interestingly enough, not caused by what Merkel did in Germany, that she let the one million Middle Eastern people come in. No, it had to do with the in-migration of people from Romania, from Bulgaria, from Poland. Over a million, close to two million people were working in Britain who were not non-Europeans. They were Europeans and they had the permission to travel because that's part of the EU constitutional framework. And you also have hundreds of thousands of Ukrainians before the invasion, moving around in working in EU countries because the EU granted them in 2019 visa-free entry into the European Union. So for me, the interesting thing is, when I was in Berlin this December, in restaurants, you don't find any German waiters. And when you drive at night through the city, you see all these huge Turkish vegetable markets. It's absolutely stunning. It's a credit to Germany, isn't it? Yes. They've adapted this kind of diversity. But let me switch for one last point of discussion, Manfred, and you mentioned before that a lot of people in Russia are okay with this war. And that may be because of the propaganda, Russia TV and all that. I know, absolutely, yes. So we have definite points of transition of change in Western Europe in terms of migration, in terms of the political implications of what's happening country by country. But in Russia, is there a similar process going on? Are these people, a lot of people we read are leaving Russia, they're opposing the war, protesting the war by leaving. There are a lot of people who are afraid to speak out on it because they'll go to jail. But under the hood, from a political science point of view, is Russia also involved in change because of Putin's war? That is not clear. It seems in the polls that his approval ratings have become better after the invasion and that the exodus of the people from Russia are the exodus of scientists, of professionals who will have no problems finding jobs in the US or in any of the major Western European countries. I mean, this exodus will bleed Russia in the future. I mean, this is like the exodus of Jews from Germany, you know, from 1933 to 1938. I mean, look at the statistics of Nobel Prize winners, you know, American Nobel Prize winners and their origin, you know, where many of them came from. And the same thing, you know, will happen to Russia.  Now, I do not know whether Navalny, I mean, I don't know whether you have seen the Navalny film. If you have not, show it, watch it, it's really stunning.   But he may die, you know. And he said, when he was asked, what should we do, his friends? He said, do not give in. Meaning, if I die, that should be the signal for you to continue the work that I have been trying to do. And I mean, when you watch this documentary, it's a stunning work of political analysis and you have there, you know, the Russian Solinsky. And do you remember, Solinsky, you know, was an actor and then, and is one of the last shows, you know, he played the president and then he became that president. Now, Navalny is not an actor, but I mean, why he returned to Russia, from Berlin, when he, you know, when they discovered that he had been poisoned, is, well, that is the same kind of the quality of courage that Solinsky shot. But in that movie, you know, there is a sub-movie, there's a plot where Navalny and his wife, Julia, and friends, they are trying to find out who was responsible for the poison. And in the end, they discover this guy, you know, he reveals everything on the phone call. And when you watch that, it's absolutely hilarious on the one side. On the other hand, it also shows the stupidity, you know, of the regime that they really thought they could get away with it to kill Navalny, the most prominent opponent of Putin in Siberia by, you know, poisoning his underwear and description of that. I mean, you have simply to laugh when you listen to that phone conversation because he wants to know what part of my underwear and then they talk, you know, about the part. And if he would not have been, if the plane would not have landed in Tom's, you know, and they got the permission transfer him to Berlin, we would never have found out.  Peter, we're almost out of time. I wonder if you could close, ask Manfred, you know, the overarching question that may be in your mind and in any event summarize and ultimately to thank him for this great discussion. But there's one thing that I wanted to tell you when you asked me about Putin in Russia, you know, I have here the newest issue of foreign affairs. There's an article in which the most recent ratings are mentioned. And it says Putin's ratings plunged after the controversial 2018 reform raising the retirement age from 60 to 65 for men from 58 to 63. And it plunged into the thirties from 59%. You know, but that was before the invasion. Well, okay. I mean, there may be something happening under the hood. We should be watching to see, you know, indications of that going forward. No, absolutely. Peter? Well, thank you very much. Manfred, I appreciate your insights as always. And I think our audience can go away with a few takeaways. Jay always likes me to give a couple and then to end with a question. So I think among the important takeaways that you've suggested to us is the way in which this war has interacted with a larger sense of Europe and how the war in fact unbeknownst or, you know, maybe Putin realized it has reinforced a sense of NATO and reinforced a sense of the European Union which could include adding countries as you suggested. But you've raised the important question of once the war is over, what will be left? And I think if I'm hearing you the strengths will continue. Perhaps the unanimity will not but Europe itself is stronger and will endure in that way. You reminded us that Europe for better or worse is in somewhat of a relationship with the U.S. So part of the answer for the future of post-war Europe will be the role of the United States. I don't think any of us envision a second Marshall plan but it does seem that there is enough consistency in Congress to continue. I'd like to have you back to talk more explicitly about populism and the right you've hinted at it. And I think there's probably a lot more there. I would only add that I think much of the future depends upon Europe's commitment to breaking away from this petrol state. I mean, it's all the discussion of Russia and its revenue and Putin's power does require a significant exporting of oil and natural gas. And I think a measure of Europe's fortitude will be whether it will in fact move away from that kind of dependence which will though put the Green Party in an interesting situation because moving away from natural gas and oil is going to mean as we've already seen the resurrection of nuclear power, domestic nuclear power. So from a political economy point of view I think Europe's energy future is not just significant for the climate and for Europe itself, but really whether or not the Putin state can continue it requires the revenue from that. So let me invite you back at some point. We do not know how the war will end. I don't think anybody notes how it will end other than it's devastation to Ukraine that that can't be denied. And so thank you very much and we will see you maybe after your next visit you can come back and give us an update about the way things are. So, Manfred Henningson, Peter Huffenberg this has been a great discussion. Thank you so much Manfred, Peter, I appreciate it. Yes, and we will circle back. Thank you so much. Thanks a lot. Aloha. Thank you so much for watching Think Tech Hawaii. If you like what we do, please like us and click the subscribe button on YouTube and the follow button on Vimeo. You can also follow us on Facebook, Instagram, Twitter and LinkedIn and donate to us at thinktechhawaii.com. Mahalo.