Hello and welcome to NewsClick. The weather is getting a bit chilly. There is a lovely nip in the air. The birds are leaving the trees. Now the sunsets are becoming beautiful. The days are getting shorter, which obviously means this one thing. It's running season. And how do we kick off running season? With the ADHM. Welcome to our show. We have Mrs. Sunita Godara, Asian Marathon Champion in 1992. Dr. Rajat Chahan, director of La Ultra. And we have Ashish Bhushan, the business development head of Procam International. Joining us. Ashish, I'm going to throw straight to you because I have some numbers that have come to me which say that we have 40,000 people participating across different categories in the ADHM this year. That's massive. And this is your 15th year. Can you tell me a little bit about how the event has grown and just how you guys have been involved with it and how you've seen it grow? Yes. Firstly, I work with Seleger being here and I love you and the panelists. And I think it's a great initiative which I would like to congratulate you to really bring a platform which we are able to speak about running and how running is making a big difference to people, to communities, to the country, et cetera, and large. So yes, this is the 15th year of the ADHM. We have, you said, crossed the 40,000 mark this year up from about 34,500 to 35,000. And so these numbers are a great encouragement to us as Procam. And we look forward to executing a great event this week. Super. So I'm going to just come back to you guys also. Ma'am, you said just before we kicked on because this is how much preparation time I got. You said that you've also been in charge of the Procam elite coordination with athletes. For the Indian elite runners, I'm the coordinator for the last 15 years. And I make sure that all the Olympians and the national record holders and the national championship record holders, the winners of all different marathons happening in India, they are all there in ADHM. And of course ADHM is the highest prize money half marathon for runners recognized gold-label marathon. So all the top-level Indian athletes, they prefer to come here because of the recognition, because of the professionalism and the hospitality they get here. Ma'am, can I ask you how you have seen the event grow and how it has perhaps influenced in your own view? See, in 2006, I was a runner in 40-plus category. I won the marathon and then I went to their office. I was literally fighting with them because in the result, why this happened, why that happened, why not Indians getting importance, why only foreigners are getting importance. And you won't believe, they are so professional. That time they said, okay, sorry, we'll take it next year and all that. And next year, I mean, 2007, I got a call from Procam that will you coordinate our Indian elite runners because I was telling them we have 50, from all India, we have 50 top-level athletes and we should give them due importance. And they called me and since then I'm with them and now part of the family and getting all the best runners from all over India. Super, so Doctor, I'm going to throw to you and ask you, sir, can you tell me, like you have seen, you have been running for years and you have also seen Delhi running as a community grow. What kind of influences do you think ADHM have had or perhaps events of the stature, of the kind that ADHM is have had in this? And what is the changes you've seen in Delhi running as a whole? Massive. So 15 years ago when ma'am took part herself and stuff around India gate, how many people would we see on a Sunday morning? Not many. There would be like 10 people in all, if at all. Okay, so I think this was like a great thing that ADHM, pro-cam, let's not even say ADHM, pro-cam as a company, they've changed the whole scene. They brought literally running to a common man. They have done that and we have to accept that and give them credit for that bit. They've done a brilliant job. You will see people of all kinds from all age groups, all parts of the society, people in a burqa running here. People in a saree running. No doubt, they've done a great job with that and across the country. So the four events that they have, they've done a good job with that. So Ashish, I'm going to, now this is all like very lovely. It sounds so rosy, such nice stuff, but I want to know a little bit about all the hard work that goes behind the scenes. I want to know a little bit about the sweat that, I'm not talking about the sweat that the marathoners shared. I'm talking about the sweat that you guys shared while organizing these events. And it's also like people like sitting on our panel, they also have experience of behind the scenes work that happens in organizing an event like this. So can you tell me a little bit about the troubles that, I mean, every event has a lot of struggles that it goes through. And I'm sure like you have scheduling issues, you have issues with just trying to get permits, trying to get courses, like how do you guys negotiate these things? Just give us a little bit of an insight.  And if I speak on behalf of all the pro-camers over the last, you know, 16 to 8, who've been behind this year after year, city after city and race after race. I mean, as you would know, pro-cam also hosts the Tata Mumbai Marathon, also the Tata SEAL 25, as well as the TCF World Champion, other than the H&M Marathon. On one end, yes, it's a lot of sweat, but what is really comforting for pro-cam is the fact that, you know, people such as the one that you have on the panel make it easy for us, you know, the huge number of government bodies which are behind it. If you take Delhi as an example, you know, various government departments, including the New Delhi Municipal Corporation, the MRC, the Ministry of Youth Affairs and Sports, you know, Delhi Police, several others, you know, who work shoulder to shoulder with us to be able to make this idea happen. So we can't clearly say that, you know, we are the only ones sweating it out there. I think just the entire city comes together. Even in terms of, you know, people, the volunteers who come forward, who may not be running, who have nothing to do with the run otherwise, but they come forward on the day to sort of serve water, to, you know, give fruits, whatever else to the runner, because they all sort of, you know, feel that this event is theirs, since this city is theirs. So yes, of course, we do have administrative responsibilities. We have to make sure that everything gets done and, you know, it's like clockwork in many ways. We've got those Excel sheets. We have a whole host of, you know, vigor and processes behind bringing this event alive. Also, this is like a year-round event. You know, it isn't for one day. It starts many months in advance with the registration and even after race day, you know, the charity conference, which is when all the charity funds, etc. get announced, happened a couple of months after race day. So in many ways, you know, at the Delhi Airport, everything is like a six to eight month initiative. Of all the events that you organize, is this the toughest one to do? Yes, well, I would say in terms of complexity, you know, all are the same. In terms of ease, all are the same. So in a sense that, you know, each city from our lens pretty much has its own unique character. It's a unique flavor. It's a unique set of challenges that one has to deal with. So to that extent, I wouldn't really single out Delhi over any other city. But, you know, I think it's good fun. Sheesh, you said DMRC. Through your channel, I want to tell all the runners who are coming from far off places around Delhi, four o'clock DMRC is giving a special facility. So four o'clock, all metro stations will start and they'll come to Nehru Stadium. So now they don't have to take cab or auto or something like that, you know, and thinking about their cars and all parking. All metro stations are giving facility, especially for ADHM, four o'clock in the morning so that they can reach in time for 540 start. So Doctor, I'm going to ask you, you organize events at, you organize this event in perhaps the most difficult place for human beings to breathe, right? And it's not underwater. And we have had conversations where you tell us about the logistical problems that happened with this. Like, what are the kind of problems that happen in a metropolis that in terms of just the event itself? So, since I don't do it in the metropolis, you know, we'll have to bank on them for whatever the feedback is. But I can appreciate how difficult it can be. So there was a FICI conference once happening, 2012 or 30, and they had asked me, all the government people and the sports ministry people, what help do I want from them? My request to them was just stay out of my way. That'll be the biggest help. So, you know, here we are being very polite, I think. But I think the biggest issue is just jumping in middle of things unnecessarily at times. It's a big issue. Like, the event is organized, everything is organized, and suddenly someone jumps in and says, have you taken this clearance, have you taken that clearance? So what if you've been doing it for 15 years? You know, I've been doing my event for the last 10 years in Ladakh. I face it every year. I need every permission every time. It doesn't help if I have that track record of nine years or 10 years. It's a very different event because ours is now a 555, rather than, you know, just a 42 or so. And it's in that very inhospitable, you know, environment that is there. Safety is a big concern. So it's a very different one. The issues that we face there. Our numbers are very small. You know, we don't do thousands and numbers like that. I think it's a lot. It's a tough one. It's a marathon in itself, putting the marathon together. Absolutely. And so I'm just going to ask you one last thing, Ashish, before we let you go, because I'm sure you have better things to do than chat with us all evening. So I just want to know, like, what is the, what is looking ahead? Can you tell us a little bit? Like, what are you guys planning ahead? Like, Dr. Sahib has got this, like, strange quirk where every couple of years, he increases the distance of his races. And he does it in, like, with some, some jyotish comes and tells him what number to put and they put it. So do you have what are your plans with the ADHM? Well, you know, firstly, you know, we will pretty much be led by what is it that the city wants us to do? What is it that the runners want us to do? And, you know, will we make every attempt to be able to move the numbers up to the extent that there is capacity on the roads how we will do our bit? We are seeing a very interesting trend in terms of women participation increasing. In fact, from last year to now, there is almost a close to 25% jump that's happened in women participation, which is again a very encouraging sign. See, in my elite category, earlier, I always get 50 top national runners for them. So in 50, there used to be 40 men and 10 women. Slowly, I started, you know, getting better number. So 15 women, 35 men. And now in 15 years, today, proudly, I can say, I've got 28 women and 25 men. So it's girls are more than half, you know. So this is what has changed, you know. And we have elite category, time limit also. The men should be 1 hour, 10 minutes below and the women should be 1 hour, 28 minutes below. So in that, you know, women are increasing. Same with the open category. So many housewives have turned into marathon runners. Not only professionals or the hobby runners, amateurs, even housewives, you know, now they have come into running. Super. Thanks a lot, Ashish, for coming on to the show. I think we'll let you go now. And thank you very much for joining us. This week has been really phenomenal for road running. There's been a couple of things that have happened that have... Well, more than what has happened, what I'm interested in is that everyone's talking about it. Marathon running is suddenly mainstream. This used to be a very niche event. This used to be something that was spoken about in closely knit circles. But now there are people who have nothing to do with road running, F1 drivers and cricketers who are talking about elite Kipchoge. So it's become such a mainstream event. Can you just tell me a little bit about what this, what perhaps what Kipchoge did and then two days later what Kosage did with the women's marathon. How has this changed? Okay, so Kipchoge, I mean, I have a very different opinion to what the rest of the world is very super excited about the under two hours and all that. It was a marathon distance. It wasn't a marathon. So let's be honest about what things were done. Whereas in the ladies world record when it was broken, it was a proper marathon that was on. I actually think what happened yesterday in my eyes, that's a far bigger thing. It was a record which was held for a very long time. I'm a very big fan of hers. And I thought that record was going to stay for far longer. And that record being broken under proper marathon conditions, not 41 paces. I think, come on, what are we talking about? So it's a bit like in practice run, I did a certain thing. All good, but it was a practice run. It was not an organized event because it was an event for one person. There wasn't the second person. Precisely. So all credit, it was a great effort by a great athlete. Let's not take that away from him. To me what happened yesterday was far bigger. Again, going back to man's point, women running, women generally. In any case, medically if we talk about it, women actually have far more capacity when it comes to endurance. They can last longer because of the whole biology because it's women who get pregnant. And I think that's the classic thing. Precisely that. So not trying to patronize anyone, but that's what biology says. So it's amazing what happened yesterday. So we shouldn't undermine that because that's not getting enough coverage. You know, it's Kipchoga and Kipchoga and Kipchoga. Come on, let's be real about this. I mean coverage, like ma'am, you're an Asian marathon champion from 1992. Can you tell me how many people spoke about this when you won it? Only Charu who took Kojita-Koyara interview and there was not much coverage. That time there was no social media. Of course. But I'm surprised when he's running machine. Unofficially he was doing that. That was covered by each and every person on Facebook, on Instagram. But this girl, she has broken record by one minute or so in the real marathon and nobody is flushing that. So it's all about media hype and the way it was covered and this girl because she did it in the actual marathon. So people were not so aware. Tuned into it. This event was for the media, for showcasing. Although he was a running machine, no doubt about it. But that was showcasing and the girl did the real thing. Yeah, absolutely. I mean, I completely agree with you that what happened yesterday in the Chicago marathon is perhaps more momentous than what happened on the states of Vienna. Pureist. It's more pureist. Definitely. And in terms of a sport, yes, this record will matter. Yeah, that is an official record. Yeah, absolutely. It's a record. Fastest men in the world, but not officially. And there's also a difference in, I mean, this can just be measured in terms of Kipchoge himself. When he broke the world record for the marathon last year in Berlin, I don't think people spoke about it as much as what happened right now in Vienna, which just tells you perhaps a little bit about the kind of campaign that was run in terms of just advertising and producing this effort. It was a monitored event only done for, you know, breaking this record, not the actual official record. Absolutely. There were statements, there was a statement by Kipchoge about in human sports, it's only after 65 years another record set. Now that's so wrong because 100 meters run in 10 seconds happened during this time. 200 meters under 20 seconds happened during this time. Marathons, you know what, as I said, I mean, politically, the pace she runs at are best barely keep up with that pace or, you know, with the current world record now. So no, it wasn't like one thing only after 60 or 70 years. It's not like that at all. I think that's a, as Mamma is saying, such a marketing effort that's put into courtesy of all the media that's gone behind it. I think yesterday's was a far better performance to me. Fair enough. It was last year. Fair enough. I'm also going to, like, want to wind this up. So I want to steer this conversation on to just the mainstreaming of the marathon. Again, now everyone speaking about the marathon, we've done this little segment on the ADHM also. And there are more people who are going to be talking about this long, really hallowed distance. So what does this hold for the future of road running? And I'm talking about not just the world. I would like to, like, send to this question about India. Like, what does this mean for Indian road running? After this ADHM or Tata Mumbai or everywhere, every Sunday there is a marathon. All organizers, if they are doing runs and now they want to organize marathon. Each and every runner who runs five kilometer, 10 kilometer, wants to go for 21K and then full marathon. I'm surprised that now even here, runners have dreamed to finish a marathon. It's so nice. And secondly, the running clubs, means they are popping up everywhere running clubs. And it's such a good thing for fit India movement. The marathon has started, say, 15 years back, 10 years it was booming. And now it's the in thing. Everyone is ready. So running health-wise, I think 30 to 40 minutes is ample. So as much as this whole running bug has bit all of us, and what are we talking about? My longest is 555 that I put together in Ladakh. Having said that, for health, 30 to 45 minutes does the job. The problem is, once you've been running, the bug's bitten you now. Now you can't stop. My big issue is the society is trying to do too much too soon. So each runner, as ma'am was referring to there, is trying to do too much too soon. And me as a sports medicine doctor also, the issue is the injuries start coming, which can sometimes permanently finish their running, whatever plans they had in life. Now that's a big issue. So my only request would be runners slow down. Because where are you taking this otherwise? No one talks about, I think what we should touch upon is, ma'am makes all these elite runners run. It isn't only about running. What strength training, what fitness goes behind that, because most amateur runners do not understand that. Stretching, warm up, cool down, strengthening, that is very important. Nutrition. Yeah, nutrition. Of course. So, I mean, I'm going to wind this up by saying that, yes, there's a lot of you who will be watching this, who are going to probably run the ADHM. A lot of you watch this, and have seen Kipchoge do it in what, 159.40? 159.40. Spend that much time just stretching, preparing yourself, just doing some cooling down exercises and then maybe run for a little bit more. And it's not only about timing. It's enjoy running.


To celebrate 25 years of Australia's Woman at Risk visa for Refugee Week, we asked refugee women what coming to Australia meant to them. Here our staff share these women's stories. Coming to Australia from Afghanistan means Zanab is treated equally and not as a second class citizen. Here she feels safe and her children have a brighter future, especially her daughter who can now continue her studies. In Somalia Fatima wanted to protect her children and didn't want them to hold a gun. She wanted to give them a better life. Now in Australia her children have a future and not only are they safe but have a future for many generations. Yasme was used to bombs and missiles going off in Iraq. She's in paradise now and grateful to be in this country. We play a key role in managing Australia's humanitarian program. We've welcomed more than 800,000 refugees and people in humanitarian need since World War Two. In 1989 the Woman at Risk visa category was established. We're one of only a few countries in the world that has a specific allocation of places for women at risk. Over the past 10 years nearly 10,000 women and their children have been granted this visa coming from 37 different countries. Help us celebrate Refugee Week from 15 to 21 June. For more information visit imi.gov.au forward slash refugee week.